From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 00:20:39 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 10:20:39 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chocolate References: <8r3vsr+sln8@eGroups.com> <39D588DF.601C24C8@ibm.net> <00bb01c02aee$9d1bc600$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2588 Denise - you beat me to it. I wrote a very long post and then ditched it saying much the same - I have bi-polar and find choclate a very useful self medicator (in conjuction with caffine and Prozac). I wasn't sure that it did effect seritoneane levels. I do remember that it provides similar chemcial effects to being "in luv" (similar/connected to effect of sex?). I've lent by book on the bodies chemical reactions to a friend but I read something that suggested that it might be the theobrime in choclate that causes the effect. Theobrimine (if you are interested) is what makes choclate poisous to dogs It is a relative of caffine. I'm not sure this is the chemical compound that it is thou that gives the blissing out of choclate. Theobrimine is found in the highest concretantions in dark choclate. It was of no surpirse to me that choclate is the cure for the dementors Anyway, anyone who can explain this effect in more detail ... storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rogers To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Chocolate Peg, you've got the right idea. It deals with the body's inability to regulate seratonin. I am classified as a maniac-depressant, or bio-polar, meaning that this IS me! Grins. My body has a problem with both insulin and seratonin. Unlike my personal experience with having too much insulin (hence, the need for more sugar), the seratonin is replaced (from what I hear from the psy.) via chocolate. Sex and Paxil do the same thing, I was told. I cannot make enough natural seratonin to keep up with the uptake, and have radical mood swings because of it. I have sorta stabilized since I had Ian, for some reason, but I still get hit with depression at times....but it only lasts a few days now, rather than the months and months before the pregnancy. Of course, my choice of cure, over paxil (which scared me when I was on it--I really had a reaction in my social relationships!) is chocolate! Sex I don't care about as much ... lol. If anyone can explain the chemical side, I will keep my fingers crossed for this answer! ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Chocolate Eunice wrote: > Just wondering... why is chocolate used to restore one's wamth after > a chilly encounter with the Dementors?? Why not something else? My > friend suggested that eating chocolate was perhaps like a joy to many > and thus the use of it... But what if one doesn't particularly favour > chocolate? Suggestions? > > Eu As I understand it, and I don't remember where I picked up this information (some interview or other), Rowling's invention of the dementors was based on her own experience with clinical depression, right after coming back to London, after her divorce. When the dementors approach you, you are left with only the worst experiences of your life, until you collapse. You can't think, you feel cold and despairing. THAT's depression. And it is true the chocolate is helpful for people suffering from depression, for chemical reasons. Again, I can't remember where I read this, but some research has been done into the reasons why depressed people crave and are helped by chocolate. It has to do with the seratonin uptake spots in the brain--something chemical in chocolate affect the same parts of the brain which processes the chemicals that regulate mood. (Help me out with the explanation, somebody; I never took biochemistry). Anyway, I'm guessing that Rowling put that detail in because she found eating chocolate helpful when she was depressed. Peg To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 1 00:31:04 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (Rosemary) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 17:31:04 -0700 Subject: Lupin and physical contact/ Re: S/D (Was: setting the cat down Message-ID: <39D685B8.50C6AD5B@qnet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2589 Thanks, Storm and Peg, for saying my piece better than I could. You can speak for me anytime! As for my >little fantasies< ... I will admit to hankering after Professor Snape (now *that* is depraved!), but let's face it, how could I ever lure him away from Mr. Filch? Pippin PS. (Admitting to being dreadfully naive...what does setting the cat down mean?) From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 1 01:02:15 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (Rosemary) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:02:15 -0700 Subject: Snape the poet (was: logic puzzles...) Message-ID: <39D68D03.471A8906@qnet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2590 Amanda wrote: >>Ieven if it was paper rather than parchment, why would this be construed as an insult? A wizard with parchment available would use paper instead only if he were communicating with a Muggle. Using paper for a message you know will be read by a Wizard strikes me as insulting... >>And why would Snape bother with such a tiny subtle thing, when it's an all-purpose barrier designed as a cog in a system to stop Whoever Tries (Muggle or not)? Snape and Dumbledore must both assume that Voldy's most likely to come after the stone. I think they assumed that anyone who got through the outer barriers would be in league with Voldemort or possessed by him. If Voldmort had looked into the Mirror of Erised, would he not have seen himself living eternally, and thus have been trapped forever in front of it? Voldemort, alas, guesses the danger and is careful not to look into the mirror himself. A note about wands: notice that Quirrel doesn't use one any where in the final confrontation, even though he's doing things like conjuring cords and trying to put a deadly curse (kedavra?) on Harry. Any else wonder why? Pippin From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 01:32:07 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 01:32:07 -0000 Subject: The Harry Potter Song. Message-ID: <8r646n+csde@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2591 I found a funny Harry Potter Song on Napster and I recommend downloading it, LOL! It's called the "Harry Potter Song"... Scott Who is ashamed of posting anything so short. From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 01:53:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 01:53:44 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore as Headmaster In-Reply-To: <39D38F30.72A3778F@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: <8r65f8+ec7n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2592 --- Pam H. wrote. > > Actually, I don't think Snape is a bad teacher. He's just a very tough teacher with a bad attitude. He's certainly a bad teacher for some students, but in terms of knowing his stuff and passing his techniques on, he's pretty good. > Yes, he is quite knowledgeable, remember that Hermione learned about the polyjuice potion in Snape's class (Ron's comment -- do you think the only thing we have to do in Snape's class is to listen?) He IS basically unfair to the students, but that doesn't mean they can't learn from him. My guess is that Dumbledore is unaware of the intensity of personal viciousness that Snape has directed at Harry (the threat to slip him the truth potion conversation for example) As someone who is in charge of hiring, I shudder to think that people would judge me by my bad hires, rather than my good ones! Susan From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 02:20:50 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:20:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chocolate References: <8r3vsr+sln8@eGroups.com> <39D588DF.601C24C8@ibm.net> <00bb01c02aee$9d1bc600$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39D69F81.86623D9D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2593 storm stanford wrote: > I do remember that it provides similar chemcial effects to being "in luv" (similar/connected to effect of sex?). Well, in general it's easier to be certain of the quality of the chocolate. > Theobrimine is found in the highest concretantions in dark choclate. What about cooking chocolate? The pure stuff, no milk or sugar? I've heard of true fanatics who say that all the additives detract from the true experience, and eat the straight stuff. Just for your Table of Useless Information (tm). --Amanda (whose husband loves dark chocolate....hmmm....) From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 02:17:52 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 02:17:52 -0000 Subject: Lily, and Petunia's last contact w/ each other... Message-ID: <8r66sg+svrq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2594 Listening to the start of SS/PS, it says that Petunia hadn't heard from Lily in several years, but yet she knew that the Potter's son would be Dudley's age- 1 year. How would she know he was one if she hadn't had any contact in several years(which to me implies about 3yrs.)? ?? Scott From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 02:29:46 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 02:29:46 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's age/Dumbledor's age wasRe: Vokdy's age In-Reply-To: <39D49934.F21D65EA@indy.net> Message-ID: <8r67iq+981m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2595 > Ahem - if Voldy is 16 in 1942, which is 50 years before CoS, he is > technically 76 in 1992, although granted he would be, say, 65 when > discorporated. Um, Voldemort was 16, 50 years before the CoS, which makes him 66 at the time of the Chamber of Secrets. We see Albus Dumbledore as an adult teaching Tom Riddle. Assuming that Dumbledore was at least 20, that makes him 86...or if he was 30 then, 96, ...or am I doing something wrong? From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 02:23:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:23:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin and physical contact/ Re: S/D (Was: setting the cat down References: <39D685B8.50C6AD5B@qnet.com> Message-ID: <39D6A016.1016D2D5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2596 Rosemary wrote: > As for my >little fantasies< ... I will admit to hankering > after Professor Snape (now *that* is depraved!), Why? Aside from the greasy hair... I admit to a certain fascination with Snape, because he's so complex, but if Alan Rickman really does play him in the movie, it's gonna get a lot more involved.... ; > > PS. (Admitting to being dreadfully naive...what does setting the cat > down mean?) Um, yeah, I wondered about this too...? --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 02:30:24 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 02:30:24 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's age/Dumbledor's age wasRe: Vokdy's age In-Reply-To: <39D49934.F21D65EA@indy.net> Message-ID: <8r67k0+l70u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2597 > Ahem - if Voldy is 16 in 1942, which is 50 years before CoS, he is > technically 76 in 1992, although granted he would be, say, 65 when > discorporated. Um, Voldemort was 16, 50 years before the CoS, which makes him 66 at the time of the Chamber of Secrets. We see Albus Dumbledore as an adult teaching Tom Riddle. Assuming that Dumbledore was at least 20, that makes him 86...or if he was 30 then, 96, ...or am I doing something wrong? From find_sam at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 04:15:27 2000 From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 04:15:27 -0000 Subject: The worst possible ending In-Reply-To: <8r51af+kl1g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r6dov+iq3e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2598 > I challenge anyone to come up > with a last page of book 7 that is more disappointing, more artless, > more joy destroying, more stupid, than this. Well, i don't think I can beat THAT ending, which was truly disappointing! However I present an ending which takes JKR's propensity for crazy twists much, much too far... Harry hugged Ron and Hermione, glad that they'd finally defeated the evil Lord Voldemort. 'I'm glad you weren't REALLY killed in our fifth year, Ron,' said Harry, 'and that you managed to learn how to be an Animagus and disguise yourself as an owl for these last two years, revealing yourself only to Draco Malfoy who helped you start your secret romance with Hermione which you made her forget about with a well placed Memory Charm.' Ron chuckled. 'Well, it wasn't easy,' he said. Suddenly Dumbledore, Snape and McGonagall rushed up to the three of them. 'Harry, watch out!' Dumbledore cried, and fired a bolt of magic at Ron, which undid the Polyjuice Potion 'Ron' had been taking for the last seven years to reveal him as none other than Lord Voldemort himself! 'Gasp!' cried Harry. 'That's right,' said Voldemort, 'I'm not really Ron! It is I, Voldemort! But now, Harry, time for another surprise...' Voldemort suddenly changed into James Potter right before Harry's eyes. 'Ha ha ha!' said James. 'I faked my death sixteen years ago in order to be evil without anyone knowing about it! And all this time you thought it was the REAL Tom Riddle!' 'Well,' said Hermione, 'that was an unexpected twist!' Harry laughed. 'It certainly was, Hermione,' he said, 'It certainly was.' And he pulled her into his arms and kissed her. Ugh. I appreciate twists as much as the next person but I think it can be taken too far! From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 04:29:07 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 04:29:07 -0000 Subject: Insecurity & Hermione In-Reply-To: <39D554E2.E79129D8@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8r6eij+knm4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2599 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > Hi -- > > > > Dr M M wrote: > > > > > I also think Hermione is just as insecure as he is. If she wasn't > > > would she really be bragging about her knowledge in class the way she > > > does? > > > > I don't have the perception that Hermione "brags" about her smarts, in > > class or out of class. She's always all too happy to volunteer the > > right answers, in class & out of class. But, in my mind, that's not > > quite the same thing as "bragging." > > You both have a point. Hermione does have insecurities about her studies > (remember what her boggart appeared as during Lupin's obstacle course/final > exam?) She overstudies and worries a great deal about upcoming tests. > > But I also agree that she doesn't brag. She never crows about her test > results, and she although she can be tsk-tsky toward Ron and Harry when she > thinks they aren't studying enough (or when they don't know something she > thinks they should know--usually something from _Hogwarts, a History_), she > is unfailingly kind to Neville in Potions class, always doing her best to > protect him from Snape's bullying rather than agreeing with him that Neville > is hopeless. > > She's a smart student but not the most obnoxious kind. > > Just the mildly obnoxious kind. > > Peg I like Hermione a great deal... Part of it is that she is far more mature than Ron, and somewhat more mature than Harry (typical of the girl/boy stuff between 12 - 14...my goodness Harry and Ron were a bit of a trial at the Yule Ball..one wishes for Mrs. Weasley to be there and remind them of basic courtesy!). But she also shows tremendous character development and personal development. In PS/SS (can we mount a campaign for the U.S. editions to return to Philosopher's Stone..I find it incredibly irritating that it was changed. PS makes so much more sense) Hermione is bossy and irritating. She has "no friends" until the troll incident. I think she then starts becoming more secure. She does NOT boast or brag about her academic progress, even when Remus Lupin tells her that she's the cleverest witch of her age that he's ever encountered. She's flattered, but doesn't go around saying "I got 99 on the test; what did you get?" She is very helpful -- unfailingly kind to Neville, helping Harry with his spells, etc. But she really blossoms in the books -- her suggestion of the Polyjuice potion, her determination to see it through, her willingness to break the rules...and THEN her pursuit of Rita Skeeter, her investigation, her initiative in dealing with the problem AND her ability to keep her mouth shut until the proper time about it is really impressive. Perhaps she will succeed Albus Dumbledore as Head of Hogwarts. Poor Minerva McGonagall is just not up for it, or she would never have allowed the Dementor to give Barty Crouch the kiss. Susan I think Hermione becomes much more secure From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 04:41:50 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 04:41:50 -0000 Subject: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8r6fae+ec1u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2600 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Branford" wrote: > "As naive as this may sound, maybe the thought hasn't crossed Harry's mind. > He's an abused child. The Dursley's admitted in the first book that they did > everything they could to squash the magic out of him." > > I think saying he was abused is taking it a bit far. He was reasonably well > fed, had a room of his own (maybe a little small but still his), had plenty > of clothes to wear (even if they were second hand and did not fit him) and > did have some toys to play with. > Yes he could have been treated a lot better, but I cannot remember any > instance where we are told he was hit by Petunia or Vernon. > I must take serious issue with this as someone who has worked with abused children most of my life in my professional capacity. Harry was seriously abused. He never wore clothes that fit. He was locked in a cupboard with spiders. His glasses were always broken. Dudley bullied him, to the point that he had no friends. He was constantly ignored, or teased. He was the classic scapegoated child in the abused family. He was fed less. Dudley always took anything that he liked to eat. There were pictures of Dudley everywhere, but no pictures of Harry. He never had a birthday card or birthday cake or even an acknowledgement of his birthday. He was told to stay at school during the holidays. His identity as a wizard was taken from him. They lied about his parents' fate. He was constantly hit, punched, and kicked by Dudley and friends. In the scene at the zoo, we find out that Harry has never been to the zoo, or to any holiday excursion. Harry (inadvertantly) causes the glass to disappear after he once again has been knocked to the ground by Dudley and friend. In GoF, Vernon Dursley talks about knocking the stuffing out of him, and Harry cooly reminds him that that will not help in this particular dilemma. JKR vividly recreates the horrible experience of a child who is abused and neglected in the worst ways. I would suggest that Harry has been physically abused, but worse, he has been subjected to severe emotional abuse. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 04:46:40 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 04:46:40 -0000 Subject: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. In-Reply-To: <39D55E57.299A1A42@texas.net> Message-ID: <8r6fjg+gctt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2601 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I am not a pro in the field, but I believe it's a common misconception that > abuse must be physical. The constant belittling, if taken to enough of an > extreme, would qualify. However, I also believe that part of being abused is > accepting it, and in my opinion Harry is not abused because within himself he > has not "bought" any of the brainwashing the Dursleys are attempting. > > --Amanda, hope I made sense, it's very late and today was my son's 4th > birthday... Amanda, sorry but you are dead wrong. You have played into the misconceived notion of "blaming the victim". In other words, if the abused child or adult "doesn't accept it" then they are not abused, unlike those who do "accept it". People have different methods of coping with abuse. Harry is unusual and not really true to life in one sense. Abused kids who make it usually have strong adult role models elsewhere, detailed fantasy worlds they escape into, or SOMEplace they go to survive. Also, many children who are abused get help as adults and resolve the issues that are causing them trouble. Some abused children are damaged, and don't get the help they need. They become serial killers, batterers, and child abusers themselves. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 04:52:56 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 04:52:56 -0000 Subject: Abuse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8r6fv8+h67b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2602 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Branford" wrote: > Dee wrote: "I DISAGREE!!! (Sorry Simon!)" > > I would have been more upset if it had not promoted a reaction. It is quite > an important issue to the books. > > Dee wrote: "On page 41, american, Ch 3, it stated how Vernon beat Dusley > about the head" > > Exact quote is: "...his father had hit him round the head for holding them > up..." > It depends on what is meant by this. If it is a clip round the ear hole then > there is nothing wrong with it. There is a large amount of ambiguity in the > statement and I took it to be a more symbolic action against Dudley rather > than any massive fists flying action. We are told of some of the actions the > Dursley's take against Harry. If they did hit him then I am sure we would > know about it. > > Dee wrote: "Neglect is not only of items (food, clothes, etc), it's also of > love. As far as that, Harry is the one of most neglected ten year olds!" > > He has had an advantage that many never had. He had 15 months of total love > from his parents (I think this is a logical assumption) at the beginning of > his life. Things may have gone downhill from there but I still do not think > it was that serious. > > Simon I want to be respectful to your viewpoints, but must vehemently disagree with them. Harry is an abused and neglected child. Dumbledore's decision to leave him with the Dursleys may be eventually vindicated because Harry has turned out to be a terrific person. He does have genetics on his side. He does have prenatal and first 15 months love on his side. But the Dursleys have been beastly to him, and what is described is the classic case of the battered child. Susan McGee former director Child Abuse and Neglect Council, Jackson, Michigan current director, Domestic Violence Project, Ann Arbor, Michigan From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 04:54:54 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:54:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. References: <8r6fjg+gctt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D6C39D.86B483EB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2603 Susan McGee wrote: > Amanda, sorry but you are dead wrong. You have played into the > misconceived notion of "blaming the victim". In other words, if > the abused child or adult "doesn't accept it" then they are not > abused, unlike those who do "accept it". That's not what I meant. I meant just what you said, that people respond differently in the same situation. In the same sense that prisoners who are tortured still claim they are "free" in their own minds because they have not given that last bit of their own selfhood away, Harry retains his perspective and personality, and thus is not a victim. He is the recipient of abuse, but not a victim. Another person, in the same circumstances, might have been squashed into the mold and self-image desired, and really been a victim. It has nothing to do with blame, it's just that there are always two parties, the abuser and the abused, and the actions of both affect the outcome. --Amanda > > > People have different methods of coping with abuse. > > Harry is unusual and not really true to life in one sense. Abused > kids who make it usually have strong adult role models elsewhere, > detailed fantasy worlds they escape into, or SOMEplace they go to > survive. > > Also, many children who are abused get help as adults and resolve the > issues that are causing them trouble. > > Some abused children are damaged, and don't get the help they need. > They become serial killers, batterers, and child abusers themselves. > > Susan > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 06:28:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 06:28:59 -0000 Subject: Holly In-Reply-To: <8r4udj+p1e9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r6ljb+jb0q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2604 Holly was one of the symbols appropriated by Christians from the pagans. To the druids, holly was the plant of death and regeneration, sacred to Mother Holle, or Hel, the underworld Goddess (1). Germanic witches who worshipped her favored holly wood for magic wands. Red holly berries showed the female blood of life color, corresponding to white mistletoe berries associated with male elements of semen and death. In the divine marriage at Yule, they were displayed together. The "holy" holly was linguistically liked with Hel's yonic "hole" (Germanic Hohle, a cave or grave). It was the most sacred of trees, according to a carol sung by medieval pagans at Yuletidy, saying holly "bears the crown." (2) In the Dionysian cult, female holly was paired with the god's male symbol, ivy (3). Green boughs of both were used to adorn doorways the solstice festival. Tertullian condemned the custom, saying any Christian who has "renounced temples" should not make a temple of his own hosue door (4). Nonetheless, house-decorating with holly, ivy, or mistletoe at the winter solstice (Yule) continued despite Chrstian disapproval. The Council of Bracara ruled that no Christian should bring holly into his house for Christmas, because it was a custom of "heathen poeple" (5) Heathen or not, it was inextricably linked with Yuletide celebrations and could not be eradicated. Holly had sexual symbolism, the kiss under the mistletoe indicated the union of holly and ivy. (1) Goodrich, 54 (2) Graves, 186 (3) de Lys, 63 (4) Miles, 269 (5) Hazlitt 118 From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 1 06:47:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 06:47:44 -0000 Subject: Hagrid and his wand In-Reply-To: <39D6C39D.86B483EB@texas.net> Message-ID: <8r6mmg+ioj2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2605 So, at the end of the Chamber of Secrets, Hagrid is cleared. Does he get a new wand? Obviously, since he becomes the Care of Magical Creatures professor he is considered cleared..... susan From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 08:20:41 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:20:41 +1000 Subject: OT Re: Abuse References: <8r6fv8+h67b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2606 > He has had an advantage that many never had. He had 15 months of total love > from his parents (I think this is a logical assumption) at the beginning of > his life. Things may have gone downhill from there but I still do not think > it was that serious. > > Simon But the Dursleys have been beastly to him, and what is described is the classic case of the battered child. Susan McGee former director Child Abuse and Neglect Council, Jackson, Michigan current director, Domestic Violence Project, Ann Arbor, Michigan Go Susan! bring out the creds! LOL. Simon I'm going to advance my theory about Harry and abuse again - that is that JKR shows a very evocative and horrible account emotional abuse and depravation - what she doesn't show as realistically is the effect on Harry. Even with his 15 months of love prior to landing (litrally) on the Dursley's door step Harry is a remarkabley well adjusted child, given his circs. This may be the reason for your perspective (which I guess I'm fairly forcefully suggesting is wrong - rude but no sense pretending otherwise) Now I'm going to drag out my creds too - I'm a youth worker, currently working in an agency which oversees Child Protection practice (amougst other things). I've read far too many Court reports, seen far too many childern and young ppl to ever doubt the outcome the treatment meted out by the Dursleys. Now it's interesting to conisder that what Harry lives though is the reverse of many abused children - that is they are abused by thier natural parents and then live in foster care where they are (sometimes) safe and well cared for. Your argument that this "innoculates" him from some of the horribleness is possible But, in my experance, in NSW the current pattern is to restore children to thier n/parents as soon as is fesable (or before often) so that we are seeing more (IMO) children who have been brought up in foster care/kinship care where they have been reasonably well adjusted going to live with thier natural parents - the result 5 or 10 years later is not that dissimilar to if they have never been removed in the first place. Harry is a fantsy outcome - for anyone who has lived though abuse - to come out strong and coping, smart and relativly undamaged. but it is not what it is really like. storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 2:52 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Abuse --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Branford" wrote: > Dee wrote: "I DISAGREE!!! (Sorry Simon!)" > > I would have been more upset if it had not promoted a reaction. It is quite > an important issue to the books. > > Dee wrote: "On page 41, american, Ch 3, it stated how Vernon beat Dusley > about the head" > > Exact quote is: "...his father had hit him round the head for holding them > up..." > It depends on what is meant by this. If it is a clip round the ear hole then > there is nothing wrong with it. There is a large amount of ambiguity in the > statement and I took it to be a more symbolic action against Dudley rather > than any massive fists flying action. We are told of some of the actions the > Dursley's take against Harry. If they did hit him then I am sure we would > know about it. > > Dee wrote: "Neglect is not only of items (food, clothes, etc), it's also of > love. As far as that, Harry is the one of most neglected ten year olds!" > I want to be respectful to your viewpoints, but must vehemently disagree with them. Harry is an abused and neglected child. Dumbledore's decision to leave him with the Dursleys may be eventually vindicated because Harry has turned out to be a terrific person. He does have genetics on his side. He does have prenatal and first 15 months love on his side. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 08:36:49 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:36:49 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin and physical contact/ Re: S/D (Was: setting the cat down References: <39D685B8.50C6AD5B@qnet.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2607 oh, I was being silly (no surprise there ) - setting the cat down amougst the pigeons - causing trouble, no hidden slash meaning! I thought ppl woukld be cross about the idea that Dumbleore would be sullied by association with Snape and it just seemed such a silly idea. (and I didn't relaise the number of Snape Devotees out there) but the more I thought about it the more I like the idea. THe more I thought that Dumbledore might be the only person who could see to snape's goodness and be adult enought not to see Snapes badness as reflecting on himself (dumbledore). and it made sense in some kind of way because during voldemort's rise to power Dumbledore did seem to have/develop peer relations with ppl who had previously been his pupils (Lupin, the potters etc). when power relationships change like that it can bring out things that might not have been seen previously. and a romantic relationship would seem to be a very good reason for Snape to have the confidence to come back to the bright. and because Snape can be pretty nasty so it made sense for him to almost have something over Dumbledore - that isn't exactly what I meant but you did only ask what setting down the cat meant. storm - off to feed the dogs and cats, its still light but they are all sitting around my feet making small and pathetic noises. From: Rosemary To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 10:31 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin and physical contact/ Re: S/D (Was: setting the cat down Thanks, Storm and Peg, for saying my piece better than I could. You can speak for me anytime! As for my >little fantasies< ... I will admit to hankering after Professor Snape (now *that* is depraved!), but let's face it, how could I ever lure him away from Mr. Filch? Pippin PS. (Admitting to being dreadfully naive...what does setting the cat down mean?) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 09:02:38 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:02:38 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Long, OT, Re: Abbreviation, Holly, Lily, Chocolate, Truffles References: <39D652B9.95F6DED6@wicca.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2608 ----- Original Message ----- From: Catlady To: HP4G Cc: Lee Gold Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 6:53 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Long, OT, Re: Abbreviation, Holly, Lily, Chocolate, Truffles Am I the only weird person who ever thinks of Potter's Field (traditional name of the municipal graveyard of unclaimed bodies) in connection with the name Potter? I didn't know that that was the connection (though I've heard the phrase - P Cornell of course) "Phenylethylalanine." Jees, you not only remembered it, you remembered how to spell it! I'm impressed storm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 08:50:27 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (snuffles ) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 08:50:27 -0000 Subject: Wesley boys ages Message-ID: <8r6tsj+7ufk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2609 ok, so I realise that we were discussing this some time ago but today I came across this I'm going to be expelled! wept Ginny I've been looking forward to coming to Hogwarts since Bill came and now I'll have to leave ch 17 CoS. so the older boys started* at Hogwarts in Ginny's memory (ie must have been about 11 when Ginny was - say 3?)This would narrow the gap between the oldset and youngest Wesley children between to 7 or 8 years. anyway, something to think about for who ever is doing the FQA storm *I know that isn't *exactly* what JKR says but "since bill came" does suggest since he began at school, not just since I can remember him pushing off there From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 10:31:25 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 20:31:25 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily, and Petunia's last contact w/ each other... References: <8r66sg+svrq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2610 "Listening to the start of SS/PS, it says that Petunia hadn't heard from Lily in several years, but yet she knew that the Potter's son would be Dudley's age- 1 year. How would she know he was one if she hadn't had any contact in several years(which to me implies about 3yrs.)? ?? Scott Lily is not trying to avoid contact with Petunia (though Petunia is). Lily and Petunia grew up together, they will have lots of common contacts. whether they like it or not information will flow. storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 12:17 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily, and Petunia's last contact w/ each other... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 1 11:09:47 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 07:09:47 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily, and Petunia's last contact w/ each other... References: <8r66sg+svrq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D71B7B.9B886036@the-beach.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2611 I always took this to mean Hadn't spoken with - but there are at least 3 ways to find out someone's had a baby, other than hearing it directly from that person: 1. Even after Lily entered the Wizarding world, she may've still spoken to friends, one of whom may've also spoken to Petunia & told her (either without knowing of their estrangement or at lily's request) 2. In the muggle world, people send baby annoucements - usually a card stating the day, time, place of birth & first & middle names - in the Wizarding world, the photos move & they are sent by owl, but Lily would've probably sent one to Petunia (moving photo & all) via British Mail - can you just SEE petunia's face when the announcement arrived in August, 1980, with a photo of a cute little sleeping baby in it, and suddenly, said baby opened his eyes and started howling? 3. See #2, but Petunia recognized that Godric's Corner address & threw it away unopened but Marge, as Lily's brother in law's sister, also recieved one through British Mail, freaked out by the photo, called Petunia so hysterical that the Magical Reversals squad was alerted & responded by memory charming Marge in a way that left her with a perpetual resentment against said baby. Scott wrote: > Listening to the start of SS/PS, it says that Petunia hadn't heard > from Lily in several years, but yet she knew that the Potter's son > would be Dudley's age- 1 year. > > How would she know he was one if she hadn't had any contact in > several years(which to me implies about 3yrs.)? ?? > > Scott > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 1 11:11:54 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 07:11:54 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The worst possible ending References: <8r6dov+iq3e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D71BFA.FBCEABCB@the-beach.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2612 Sam Brown wrote: > Well, i don't think I can beat THAT ending, which was truly > disappointing! However I present an ending which takes JKR's > propensity for crazy twists much, much too far... > > Harry hugged Ron and HermioneAnd all this time you thought it was > the REAL Tom > Riddle!' 'Well,' said Hermione, 'that was an unexpected twist!' Harry > laughed. 'It certainly was, Hermione,' he said, 'It certainly was.' > And he pulled her into his arms and kissed her. : Picks self up off floor after collapsing in a heap of hysteria... From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 1 11:36:24 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 07:36:24 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] no longer completely OT Re: Abuse References: <8r6fv8+h67b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D721B8.C42737B7@the-beach.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2613 Another listie piping up with professional background - when I was in law school, I did research for an attorney defending a very prominent case in which child abuse was a major issue, and took a few law classes on the legal issues surrounding battering, and have to concur with Susan and Storm, but also note that I see the honesty & validity behind Amanda's comment that > Harry retains his > perspective and personality, and thus is not a victim. He is the recipient > of abuse, but not a victim. > which is something that some of the "abuse survivor" literature gets into - that once someone is out of an abusive situation (and by GoF, Harry is really pretty much out of it, even though he's there for much of the summer each year, because he's no longer automatically following the rules & accepting the "consequences") one could be considered a survivor of it, not a victim of it. But in book 1, and 2, it's pretty clear. As susan said, > Harry was seriously abused. > He was the classic scapegoated child in the abused family. > His identity as a wizard was taken from him. > He was constantly hit, punched, and kicked by Dudley and friends. ANd one thing she didn't mention - in book 2 (i don't think it was book 1) Petunia throws a frying pan at his head - he ducks, but her intent was certainly to hurt him badly. I do however disagree, on a purely empirical basis, with her statement that > JKR vividly recreates the horrible experience of a child who is > abused and neglected in the worst ways. No, neglected in the worst way would've meant leaving him locked in the cubboard instead of with Mrs Figg when they went on week long vacations. Abused in the worst way would've meant more physical scars on him than just the one from Voldemort. Abused & neglected, yes, but not as bad as I've seen it get - and I'm sure susan has seen worse as well. Then, storm stanford wrote: > Now it's interesting to conisder that what Harry lives though is the reverse of many abused children - that is they are abused by thier natural parents and then live in foster care where they are (sometimes) safe and well cared for. Your argument that this "innoculates" him from some of the horribleness is possible > > Harry is a fantsy outcome - for anyone who has lived though abuse - to come out strong and coping, smart and relativly undamaged. but it is not what it is really like. Part of me is wondering if, even though he complains about her, Mrs Figg somehow was a safe place for Harry - especially if he was there for more than a day or so. Kids who come out of 10-year-long abuse situations with resiliant personalities generally have someone in their lives, even if they don't notice it at the time, who provides them with what they need to survive the abuse - and there was probably something about being at school (again, even if Harry wasn't perceptive enough to pick up on it) that helped too. Or it could've been something like I discussed in my "attachment parenting by the potters" post last month - where vernon just dropped harry off at daycare every day about about 3 years until he started kindergarten so he was out of the house most of hte time so petunia could devote herself to her darling Dudders... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Sun Oct 1 13:00:56 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:00:56 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT - Farmer in the Dell References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2614 Thanks for filling me in about the song. Amanda, I agree with your assessment that Hermione loves to know things and share her knowledge (whether her friends want to hear it or not). That's one of the reasons I can identify with her. Greetings Christina ................................................... Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -Plato From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Sun Oct 1 13:01:05 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:01:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Neville References: <8r5pjr+bihu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2615 On 30.09.2000 at 22:31:23 milz wrote: >I think Neville has been under-used as a character. In book 1, he >single-handedly took on Crabbe and Goyle during the Quidditch Match. >Granted he was knocked unconscious, the main thing was is that he >took >on two bigger kids. That takes either courage or foolhardiness or >both. I believe there was a small incident that helped build his self-esteem in each of the books, so I expect to see him overcome his fears and do something really heroic by the end of the series. I only hope he won't be killed off. His boggart of Snape in his grandmother's clothes is an image I recall whenever I need a laugh. :-) >I'm sure if Neville's >gran ever got a hold of Snape she'd whack him with that big red >handbag of hers. LOL! That's another good one! Greetings Christina ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Any girl can be glamorous. All you have to do is stand still and look stupid. Hedy Lamarr Book and movie reviews in German and English http://sites.inka.de/darwin From fluctuation at rocketmail.com Sun Oct 1 12:28:10 2000 From: fluctuation at rocketmail.com (fluctuation at rocketmail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 12:28:10 -0000 Subject: The Imperius Curse Message-ID: <8r7akq+821c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2616 One thing that really bugs me is why Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. would make Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again until he got it right? Wouldn't he have realised that Voldrmort might need the curse to take control of Harry? Someone enlighten me here.... Marcus From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Oct 1 14:07:28 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:07:28 +0100 Subject: Abuse and exam questions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2617 Storm wrote: "Simon I'm going to advance my theory about Harry and abuse again - that is that JKR shows a very evocative and horrible account emotional abuse and depravation - what she doesn't show as realistically is the effect on Harry. Even with his 15 months of love prior to landing (litrally) on the Dursley's door step Harry is a remarkabley well adjusted child, given his circs. This may be the reason for your perspective (which I guess I'm fairly forcefully suggesting is wrong - rude but no sense pretending otherwise)" I will know try and say what I intended to say yesterday. Yes there definitely was a problem, I am not arguing against this. I think that we see only a couple of incidents against Harry. My feeling is that things were in the process of getting a lot worse but up until that point things had not been too bad. The worst incidents that we hear about are quite recent, or occur during the books. I may be reading too much into this and in fact we are only told about recent events even though there are plenty of others. Storm wrote: "Now it's interesting to conisder that what Harry lives though is the reverse of many abused children - that is they are abused by thier natural parents and then live in foster care where they are (sometimes) safe and well cared for. Your argument that this "innoculates" him from some of the horribleness is possible" My point was that it is the first few years of a child's life that shape his/her future the most. At least for the first part of this Harry is well cared for. This may of course have the opposite effect that there is then the big shock factor of a total change of environment. Firebolt wrote: "BTW, Simon, I'm writing up a page of interesting/funny quotes and anecdotes for my school newspaper - can I mention that Philosophy Finals question? Please?" Fine by me. It is not a question I have ever been asked or an answer I ever gave. I would not have the confidence to do so. It is something that a friend told me about, and may in fact have occurred quite a while ago (I think it is at least 20 years ago). I think the details are all correct but it may be psychology rather this philosophy. Simon From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Oct 1 14:22:18 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:22:18 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Abuse and exam questions [OT] References: Message-ID: <005e01c02bb3$027164a0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 2618 > Firebolt wrote: "BTW, Simon, I'm writing up a page of interesting/funny > quotes and anecdotes for my school newspaper - can I mention that Philosophy > Finals question? Please?" > > Fine by me. It is not a question I have ever been asked or an answer I ever > gave. I would not have the confidence to do so. It is something that a > friend told me about, and may in fact have occurred quite a while ago (I > think it is at least 20 years ago). I think the details are all correct but > it may be psychology rather this philosophy. Don't worry, I don't need a whole lot of specifics or anything...just some interesting little tidbits to put on that page. And it does sound more like Philosophy than psychology to me...thanks very much! ~Firebolt From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:23:44 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:23:44 -0000 Subject: Should Harry Potter die? Message-ID: <8r7hdg+lr8k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2619 LETTERS TO THE DAILY PROFIT Dear Editor I was dismayed but not particularly surprised to learn from professor Snape's contemptuous letter that even death will not end his vendetta against Harry, after all he hated Harry's father too. I have personally witnessed cruelty and gross unfairness directed at Harry by professor Snape on countless occasions. Far from being a "second father" I feel certain there is no one at Hogwarts he detested more. And he was not as near to Harry when he died as he would have people believe. I treasure Harry's last words but they were privet, meant only for his wife, my husband and myself. I will never reveal what he said to anybody and certainly not to a rag like the Daily Profit. Hermione Weasley Dear Editor I've just read Snape's stupid letter and that bit about being a second father to Harry made me want to vomit. Harry hated your guts Snape but not as much as you hated him. You are so full of [expletive deleted], Harry's friends wouldn't let you get anywhere near him, there is no way the last thing that Harry saw was going to be your ugly greasy [expletive deleted] face! And what Harry said is none of your [expletive deleted] business so go [expletive deleted] yourself and the horse you road in on! Ronald Weasley Dear Editor It is my greatest wish that my son enter Hogwarts just as soon as he's old enough, but if Severus Snape is still employed at that institution I'd be forced to send him to one of the very good schools in Japan or America. Ginny Potter From brooksar at indy.net Sun Oct 1 14:58:08 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 09:58:08 -0500 Subject: Voldy age References: <970382872.6684@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39D75100.9B9D17DD@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2620 Susan you are quite right, i screwed up the math. Brooks who is considering for his next pastiche "Harry Potter meets Cheech Wizard" From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Oct 1 15:05:20 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:05:20 +0200 Subject: Cheech Wizard? References: <970382872.6684@egroups.com> <39D75100.9B9D17DD@indy.net> Message-ID: <006e01c02bb9$04c77ae0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 2621 > Brooks > who is considering for his next pastiche "Harry Potter meets Cheech Wizard" Um...what does 'cheech' mean? ~Firebolt From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 16:15:51 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:15:51 -0500 Subject: Potters References: <39D652B9.95F6DED6@wicca.net> Message-ID: <01d201c02bc2$e6129080$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2622 Rita, I too identified that the moment I heard the name Harry Potter. I also pulled out something through the re-reading that I didn't write down (probably was heading to the examination room right after reading it, or something) In the shack scene, during Petunia's rant about Lily, she says they blew themselves up. This indicates that there isn't any bodies left to be interred somewhere. Any thoughts? Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: storm stanford To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Long, OT, Re: Abbreviation, Holly, Lily, Chocolate, Truffles ----- Original Message ----- From: Catlady To: HP4G Cc: Lee Gold Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 6:53 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Long, OT, Re: Abbreviation, Holly, Lily, Chocolate, Truffles Am I the only weird person who ever thinks of Potter's Field (traditional name of the municipal graveyard of unclaimed bodies) in connection with the name Potter? I didn't know that that was the connection (though I've heard the phrase - P Cornell of course) "Phenylethylalanine." Jees, you not only remembered it, you remembered how to spell it! I'm impressed storm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sungod at themail.com Sun Oct 1 15:21:38 2000 From: sungod at themail.com (sungod at themail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:21:38 -0000 Subject: Old & Wrinkled HP fan Message-ID: <8r7kq2+tj5v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2623 This sounds like just my sort of group. Pleased to mee you all Yours Sungod24 www.pottersdomain.cjb.net From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 16:41:39 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:41:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cheech Wizard? References: <970382872.6684@egroups.com> <39D75100.9B9D17DD@indy.net> <006e01c02bb9$04c77ae0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <02b501c02bc6$79d205a0$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2624 Brooks, is this a reference to Cheech and Chong? (Chuckles). If so, Cheech Martin is an actor who I believe hails from the Latino quarter of LA. He's been in several movies, as well as been the voice behind some rather interesting Disney characters--such as one of the hyenas (opposite Whoopie) in the Lion King. I think he played the Chihuahua (spelled wrong) in the movie Oliver and Company, as well. An interesting man! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Firebolt To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 10:05 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cheech Wizard? > Brooks > who is considering for his next pastiche "Harry Potter meets Cheech Wizard" Um...what does 'cheech' mean? ~Firebolt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From brooksar at indy.net Sun Oct 1 15:47:24 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:47:24 -0000 Subject: Cheech Wizard? In-Reply-To: <006e01c02bb9$04c77ae0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8r7mac+i79u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2625 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Firebolt" wrote: > > Brooks > > who is considering for his next pastiche "Harry Potter meets Cheech > Wizard" > > Um...what does 'cheech' mean? 'Cheech Wizard" was a comic strip that appeared in the US humor magazine _National Lampoon_ in the early 1970's, by the late comic artist/writer Vaughan Bode' who I'm not sure was actually on drugs - he may have been that spaced-out naturally. http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~jdavies/bode/cheech/ has some samples - CAUTION - ADULT LANGUAGE (often misspelled) AND CONTENT Bode's son Mark's home page: http://www.hollywoodcomics.com/bode.html The character Cheech Wizard consisted of a wizard's hat, (and my perception of the Sorting Hat may now be forever warped now that I have commingled Cheech Wizard and Harry Potter in what's left of my mind) a pair of legs and feet, and a lump that might be genitals.... and a personality as abrasive as Snape's in its own way, but with enough humor that he comes off as eccentrically selfish and thus slightly, weirdly charming instead of hateful. Maybe we wind up sympathizing with Cheech Wizard just a bit because unlike Snape he really IS surrounded by idiots and we too would like to do as Cheech does, and kick some of those idiots in the .... in a painful location. Brooks (PS - I'll miss the chat today - helping a lady with a task) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 16:46:55 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:46:55 -0500 Subject: CHAT! References: <8r3vsr+sln8@eGroups.com> <39D588DF.601C24C8@ibm.net> <00bb01c02aee$9d1bc600$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39D69F81.86623D9D@texas.net> Message-ID: <02d801c02bc7$36ea87c0$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2626 Just a reminder--it's 11:43 am here in the Eastern section of USA, and the chat will be at 3pm EDT in the old club chatroom--HPforGrownups over at the yahoo site. (We use it because mainly CHEETACHAT RULES! LOL. http://www.cheetachat.com for the download of cheeta, btw.) Seriously, it is easier, and nicer than the egroups chatroom. I record the chats and log them into a site (see the links for the link--Chatscripts) for those who miss the chats due to weddings, funerals, or just life in general. I have also another item of interest for the CheetaChat users out there--I have created Avatars of HP~ if you are interested, let me know, I will upload the file to the files section section here at HP4GU! I will be there, will bells (and broomsticks, lol) on! Dee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Oct 1 15:51:40 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:51:40 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's age/Dumbledor's age wasRe: Vokdy's age In-Reply-To: <8r67iq+981m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r7mic+8tp1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2627 > Um, Voldemort was 16, 50 years before the CoS, which makes him 66 > at the time of the Chamber of Secrets. We see Albus Dumbledore as an adult teaching Tom Riddle. Assuming that Dumbledore was at least 20, that makes him 86...or if he was 30 then, 96, ...or am I doing > something wrong? Hermione mode coming on: If Dumbledore was 20 the 1st time the CoS was opened by TR, That would make him 70 during Harry's 2nd year, and 80 if he had been 30 the 1st time around. Trina From SHENmagic at aol.com Sun Oct 1 15:55:29 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:55:29 EDT Subject: Abuse Message-ID: <6b.a5bddea.2708b871@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2628 > We are told of some of the > actions the > > Dursley's take against Harry. If they did hit him then I am sure we > > would > > know about it. Book One: Harry was....."Dudley's favorite punching bag" . "He [Harry]wore round glasses held together with a lot of Sellotape because of all the times Dudley had punched him on the nose." Harry falls hard to the concrete floor of the zoo when Dudley shoves him unexpectedly. That having been quoted, my impression is that JKR is depicting the attitude /character of the Dursleys. Fictionalizing and downplaying the physical abuse to paint the picture more of the emotional abuse, and allowing the reader to contrast those images with their own experiences. No mention of broken nose, bruises, etc which would surely result in "real world" from the physical actions she described. Aylihael practitioner of Rubenfeld Synergy and Intern in SHEN Therapy who also works with physio-emotionally abused and traumatized kids and adults From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Oct 1 15:59:47 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:59:47 +0100 Subject: Chat (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2629 "Just a reminder--it's 11:43 am here in the Eastern section of USA, and the chat will be at 3pm EDT in the old club chatroom--HPforGrownups over at the yahoo site." Definitely will not make the start. I am going out for pizza at 6:30pm (UK time, which is 5 hours in front of EDT) and then am going for Ice Cream (for the shop in question the capital letters are justified) after this. I should be back by 9pm and will probably pop in to say hi. This is dependent on me not getting sidetracked into a pub on the way back. "I have also another item of interest for the CheetaChat users out there--I have created Avatars of HP~ if you are interested, let me know, I will upload the file to the files section section here at HP4GU!" For the unknowing amongst us can you explain what this means? Please? Simon PS: I am back with a decent and above all free net connection. Yippee! From klaatu at primenet.com Sun Oct 1 16:15:18 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 09:15:18 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cheech Wizard? In-Reply-To: <8r7mac+i79u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2630 >>>>>Brooks wrote (PS - I'll miss the chat today - helping a lady with a task)<<<< Oooh, this sounds so medieval and Holy-Grail-ish... When I read it, I had a sudden vision of Sir Cadogan shouting, "A Quest!" ================================================== Website of the Week: http://www.mcwilliams.com/ (Life 101 online) Current Book: "The Adept" by Katherine Kurtz & Deborah Turner Harris Quote: "A successful day for many people is one in which no one discovered what he is really thinking." (Vernon Howard, '1500 Ways To Escape The Human Jungle') ================================================== From SHENmagic at aol.com Sun Oct 1 16:16:14 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:16:14 EDT Subject: Lily and Petunia contact Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2631 In a message dated 10/1/00 4:05:40 AM, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: >From: "storm stanford" >Subject: Re: Lily, and Petunia's last contact w/ each other... > >"Listening to the start of SS/PS, it says that Petunia hadn't heard >from Lily in several years, but yet she knew that the Potter's son >would be Dudley's age- 1 year. > >How would she know he was one if she hadn't had any contact in >several years(which to me implies about 3yrs.)? ?? > >Scott Perhaps "heard from" could imply converse. Lily would have sent a birth announcement to Petunia, which might or might not have been ripped up when it arrived. Possibly even a birth announcement in the papers. (Do they do that in the UK? ) My sense of Lily is she would have sent announcements privately by owl and muggle post to those that she knew. We also don't know if Lily had any relatives alive at the time of Harry's birth. We had a year and a few months before the Potters were murdered. Would have been sweet for Lily's mam a and/or papa to see infant Harry before passing on. Aylihael ? We are the ones who chase pixies, Run with the unicorns, Dance with the faeries, Sing with the sirens, Soar with the phoenixes, And swim with the mermaids. We are the ones who believe in the Unbelievable. We are the ones who dare to dream.? ~author unknown From brooksar at indy.net Sun Oct 1 16:32:03 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 16:32:03 -0000 Subject: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <8r7akq+821c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r7ou3+c11m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2632 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, fluctuation at r... wrote: > One thing that really bugs me is why Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. > would make Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again > until he got it right? Wouldn't he have realised that Voldrmort might > need the curse to take control of Harry? I think he got so caught up in acting the role of Moody that he overlooked the possibility. I think that other than the things he specifically planned to do, to ensure Harry won and got to the Cup/ portkey first, he concentrated all other thoughts on properly acting out the role of Moody - to the point of overlooking that some of the things he did as Moody might hurt Voldy's overall efforts. Sometimes Evil does its task so well it ends up helping Good after all. (Note - this has bothered me too, and the above is the only explanation I can come up with that isn't - "JKR thought of him as Moody and wrote that by mistake"). From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 17:45:51 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:45:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat (OT) References: Message-ID: <031301c02bcf$7352ba40$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2633 All right Simon~ grins. If you use CheetaChat, available via the link http://www.cheetachat.com which is where I get my lovely ability to save the chats, fade the text from one color to another, and use those macros that turn into mush when yahoo peoples see then you have as a setting (preferences) avatars! This is a little picture that others see that you choose. Last night, I saw a whollllllle bunch of new avatars, available for download from CheetaChat.com, and decided as the only HP one I found was called Hermione and had the phrase "I LOVE KRUM!", I would create my own. Several turned out rather well. These are about the size of the downloadable themes icons for your desktop--my computer, network neighborhood (not capitalized due to Microsoft--don't ask!) and are inserted before ever line that you type out in Cheetah. I am still amazed that Rita hasn't created an avatar for her cats! If you download the program, and implement it, I need to warn you about a few things...(else, you'll be lost!) 1. When you first log in, you go to a "main hall" like area. It's normal. To get to your chatroom in the club, you have to go to the bar and choose "ROOMS" then "My clubs" and then it should bring up a list of HP and the rest. If you aren't a member of the HP4Grownups yahoo club, you won't see it listed, and WON'T be able to get in. You must be a member. If you need help with that, just ask. We all would be happy to tell you how. Once you get in, if you wish to change your font to reflect your colorful nature, so it fades in various states of marble, click on the little color palette. Using the "B" bolds it, and emphasizes the effects. Play with the slidey things, and don't forget to "save as" if you find one you like--otherwise, you'll loose it! To save chats: Go to settings/preferences/and where it says "125" scroll through to unlimited. After this, you are able to save the chat using the little diskette on the bar. In that same area is the feature avatars. That's on the second file tab, at the bottom of the page. None, 1, 2, and Custom. Of course, custom is where my Quidditch Hp is hanging out! (You will be able to see this in chat today!) I highly recommend Cheetah, though. If you are one of those who get bumped off from yahoo on a regular basis, Cheetah seems to give you an extra anchor to staying in the room. Very rarely do CC users get bumped, and then usually because (I) they are trying something stupid, like file transferring with Nick, or something. (BTW, Nick, if you come across 4, email me, ok?) I DO NOT recommend using the Voice Chat feature yet. Too many bugs, and it bumps you out of chat. Is this enough information for you Simon? Grins and slinks back to her dishes... "I have also another item of interest for the CheetaChat users out there--I have created Avatars of HP~ if you are interested, let me know, I will upload the file to the files section section here at HP4GU!" For the unknowing amongst us can you explain what this means? Please? Simon PS: I am back with a decent and above all free net connection. Yippee! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 1 17:00:45 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:00:45 -0000 Subject: Lily, and Petunia's last contact w/ each other... In-Reply-To: <8r66sg+svrq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r7qjt+kjp6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2634 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Listening to the start of SS/PS, it says that Petunia hadn't heard > from Lily in several years, but yet she knew that the Potter's son > would be Dudley's age- 1 year. > > How would she know he was one if she hadn't had any contact in > several years(which to me implies about 3yrs.)? ?? > > Scott I can't believe you mentioned this. Night before last, I started re- reading SS, and the same thing caught my attention on p. 2. It says Petunia and Lily 'hadn't met in several years' but Petunia knew Lily had a son. My first thought was "How did she know?" Then my next thought was "Lily probably sent her a letter." We know Petunia hates Lily, (actually, I think it's probably jealousy and hurt feelings), but we don't know how Lily feels about Petunia. Weird how that caught both our attention. Kelley From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Oct 1 17:23:23 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 10:23:23 -0700 Subject: Fwd: The Cast Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001001100607.02190a00@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2635 I found the following on another list... >From: "Emma Crawshaw" >Mailing-List: list harrypotterfans1 at egroups.com; contact >harrypotterfans1-owner at egroups.com >Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:52:34 +1000 >Subject: [harrypotterfans] The Cast > >I found it the cast!!!! >http://www.hpnetwork. >f2s.com/witchinghour/index.html >Up in the top right hand corner there is a drop down list. >See in that list how it says cast then Students, Proffessors etc... >Take your pic and have a look!!! Don't forget to vote!!! How do you feel about these castings? I dunno about Rickman... Can anyone who has played a Jane Austen leading man go on to play Severus Snape? Maggie Smith as McGonnegal was a foregone conclusion ( Just as long as she doesn't tell Hermione that she's "the creme de la creme" :) ). Julie Walters is a pleasant surprise, but *please* not Rosie as Mrs. Weasley!! *Everyone* needs to be British, and there's only one who's right for Molly -- Pauline Collins!! (And real-life hubby John Alderton as Arthur!) -- Dave From elfnorc at voyager.net Sun Oct 1 17:23:04 2000 From: elfnorc at voyager.net (Elf and Orc) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 13:23:04 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast References: <4.2.0.58.20001001100607.02190a00@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <39D772F8.6542@voyager.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2636 Greetings; I think Rickman is perfect for the role. If you haven't seen Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves you should see Rickman in that. He was perfect as the Sherriff of Nottingham. He has a line about canceling Christmas that still makes me smile. I wouldn't have thought of him as Snape if I hadn't seen this role but he is a really gifted actor. I like Rosie O'Donnell but don't see her in this movie. Tina Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > I found the following on another list... > How do you feel about these castings? I dunno about Rickman... > Can anyone who has played a Jane Austen leading man go on > to play Severus Snape? Maggie Smith as McGonnegal was > a foregone conclusion ( Just as long as she doesn't tell Hermione > that she's "the creme de la creme" :) ). Julie Walters is a pleasant > surprise, but *please* not Rosie as Mrs. Weasley!! *Everyone* needs > to be British, and there's only one who's right for Molly -- Pauline > Collins!! > (And real-life hubby John Alderton as Arthur!) From SHENmagic at aol.com Sun Oct 1 17:31:31 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:31:31 EDT Subject: Imperius Curse Message-ID: <7a.addcf71.2708cef3@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2637 In a message dated 10/1/00 10:19:51 AM, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: >-- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, fluctuation at r... wrote: > >> One thing that really bugs me is why Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. > >> would make Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again > >> until he got it right? Wouldn't he have realised that Voldrmort > >might > >> need the curse to take control of Harry? Possibly, he was making Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again in the hopes that he would wear Harry down.....? From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 1 18:02:06 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:02:06 -0000 Subject: Fwd: The Cast In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001001100607.02190a00@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8r7u6u+n2m7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2638 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > How do you feel about these castings? I dunno about Rickman... > Can anyone who has played a Jane Austen leading man go on > to play Severus Snape? Maggie Smith as McGonnegal was > a foregone conclusion ( Just as long as she doesn't tell Hermione > that she's "the creme de la creme" :) ). Julie Walters is a pleasant > surprise, but *please* not Rosie as Mrs. Weasley!! *Everyone* needs > to be British, and there's only one who's right for Molly -- Pauline > Collins!! > (And real-life hubby John Alderton as Arthur!) > > > > -- Dave The first time I saw Alan Rickman was in "Die Hard", ("Where are my detonators?" "Very touching, Cowboy," "...maybe I'll get to someone you ~do~ care about..."---Ooooo--he's so cool), then when I saw him in "Sense and Sensibility" I couldn't believe he did such a good job as a 'good and 'noble' hero. He was my first choice for Snape, and I'm thrilled he has the part. Tim Roth would probably have done a wonderful job with that part, but AR will ~be~ Snape. See the movie Die Hard, it's really good--the first one. I'm okay with the casting, though some are not quite what I pictured--Ron, Vernon D., Peeves. Maggie Smith is great, too, and I'm surprised she doesn't have a higher approval rating in that voting poll. A day or two after you first mentioned Pauline Collins, I happened to see "Shirley Valentine". I loved it, and I completely agree, she's the ~only~ choice for Mrs. Weasley. Don't know her husband, but I'll take your word for it. Do you know who's in charge of casting for SS? Perhaps we can write WB to nominate Collins? I'd certainly be willing. Kelley From elowyl at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 18:23:06 2000 From: elowyl at yahoo.com (eunika ) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:23:06 -0000 Subject: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <8r7ou3+c11m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r7vea+naor@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2639 > I think he got so caught up in acting the role of Moody that he > overlooked the possibility. I think that other than the things he > specifically planned to do, to ensure Harry won and got to the Cup/ > portkey first, he concentrated all other thoughts on properly acting > out the role of Moody - to the point of overlooking that some of the > things he did as Moody might hurt Voldy's overall efforts. > > Sometimes Evil does its task so well it ends up helping Good after > all. > > (Note - this has bothered me too, and the above is the only > explanation I can come up with that isn't - "JKR thought of him as > Moody and wrote that by mistake"). I guess another reason would be that Moody aka BCJ never expected Voldermort to use the curse. Afterall, everything was already preplanned and there seemed to be no necessity for the curse. (i don't imagine BCJ having a list of do's and don'ts from Voldermort) Furthurmore, Voldermort's use of the curse was like a spur of the moment thing.(spoiler for GoF: note that Voldy only used the curse to force Harry to answer "no" for his own satisfaction and prove his own greatness over Harry and Harry's own weakness). ALso, as a defense of the dark arts teacher who specifically said he would teach CURSES that year, the Imperius Curse seems to be the most harmless of the 3 mentioned unforgivable curses... i think dumbledore would get pretty suspicious if Moody suddenly began cruciatus-ing the students! eunice From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 18:30:06 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee (Denise) R) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 18:30:06 -0000 Subject: Avatars for CheetaChat Message-ID: <8r7vre+dbi4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2640 I uploaded the avatars I played with for CheetaChat, for those folks who are interested. :) Dee From lrcjestes at msn.com Sun Oct 1 18:43:20 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:43:20 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast In-Reply-To: <39D772F8.6542@voyager.net> Message-ID: <000c01c02bd7$789d1f60$5eaf20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 2641 > Greetings; I think Rickman is perfect for the role. If you haven't > seen Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves you should see Rickman in that. He > was perfect as the Sherriff of Nottingham. He has a line about > canceling Christmas that still makes me smile. I wouldn't have thought > of him as Snape if I hadn't seen this role but he is a really gifted > actor. I like Rosie O'Donnell but don't see her in this movie. Tina Rickman was the best thing about that movie (Robin Hood, that is) he is hilarious and very properly vicious...he would make an excellant Snape based on that performance.... carole From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Sun Oct 1 18:53:35 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:53:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast References: <000c01c02bd7$789d1f60$5eaf20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <019a01c02bd8$e8245780$71347bd5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 2642 ----- Original Message ----- From: Carole Estes To: Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 7:43 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast > > Greetings; I think Rickman is perfect for the role. If you haven't > > seen Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves you should see Rickman in that. He > > was perfect as the Sherriff of Nottingham. He has a line about > > canceling Christmas that still makes me smile. I wouldn't have thought > > of him as Snape if I hadn't seen this role but he is a really gifted > > actor. I like Rosie O'Donnell but don't see her in this movie. Tina > > Rickman was the best thing about that movie (Robin Hood, that is) he is > hilarious and very properly vicious...he would make an excellant Snape based > on that performance.... Surely he's too old, though. That's been my gripe with this mooted casting since I heard it. I'm a huge fan of Alan Rickman, I think he's wonderful, but he's in his 40's if not 50's, and bless him, gorgeous though he is, he doesn't look like he's in his 30's, which IMHO is the age of the Marauder's generation in the books, and this could throw out the casting of Remus and Sirius (not to mention any other members of that generation who turn up...here, I'm thinking of the old crowd mentioned by Dumbledore in Book 4...no evidence that they're definitely contemporaries of the Marauder's but certainly possible). Mind you, while watching the RNT's Oklahoma the other day, I'm increasing convinced that Hugh Jackman should play Sirius Black when they get around to filming Book 3... Alix From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 19:28:58 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:28:58 -0000 Subject: The Imperius curse Message-ID: <8r839q+sogm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2643 Wrote: >One thing that really bugs me is why Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. >would make Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again >until he got it right? Wouldn't he have realised that Voldrmort >might need the curse to take control of Harry? It says near the end of Goblet of Fire when he encounters Mr. Riddle that Harry experienced the imperius curse for only the third time in his life, so Moody didn't do it over and over again, he did it exactly twice. The first time Harry almost defeated it, then it says by the end of the class Harry could overcome it completely. So he must have done it two times. And I think it just came naturally to Harry. Moody (AKA Crouch JR) didn't teach him how to resist it, how could he? Crouch himself found it enormously difficult to resist the Imperius Curse, it took him years and then was only partially successful, and you can't teach what you don't know. Harry defeated it completely in just a few minutes on only his second try. For some reason the curse was kid stuff to Harry, resisting it was easy. From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 19:35:32 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:35:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Old & Wrinkled HP fan References: <8r7kq2+tj5v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D79204.5C0C7AEC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2644 Welcome, sungod. And I *do* like someone who chooses such a shy, self-effacing name..... ; > --Amanda, feeling old and wrinkled herself these days sungod at themail.com wrote: > This sounds like just my sort of group. Pleased to mee you all > > Yours > > Sungod24 > www.pottersdomain.cjb.net > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 19:37:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:37:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cheech Wizard? References: <8r7mac+i79u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D79265.8936E312@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2645 Brooks R wrote: > 'Cheech Wizard" was a comic strip that appeared in the US humor > magazine _National Lampoon_ in the early 1970's, by the late comic > artist/writer Vaughan Bode' who I'm not sure was actually on drugs - > he may have been that spaced-out naturally. Off topic, but is that where Cheech of "Cheech and Chong" got "Cheech," or is it really his name? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 19:42:23 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:42:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Potters References: <39D652B9.95F6DED6@wicca.net> <01d201c02bc2$e6129080$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39D7939F.5CBFF7DA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2646 Denise Rogers wrote: > In the shack scene, during Petunia's rant about Lily, she says they blew themselves up. This indicates that there isn't any bodies left to be interred somewhere. > > Any thoughts? How about "Eurgh?" And after that, to get grosser, there's always bits. They're generally collected by the Authorities In Question; I imagine it's not so messy if the authorities can use magic to do it. Thus, something to be buried or cremated. But I should also point out that Hagrid, who was at the scene, and Sirius, much later, neither one mention anything so extreme. Both liked the Potters and that they were literally blown apart would have been fuel for their fury; it would have been mentioned. Petunia's probably just waxing elephants in her extremity of passion. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 19:46:05 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:46:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8r7ou3+c11m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D7947C.5FDD2022@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2647 Brooks R wrote: > I think he got so caught up in acting the role of Moody that he > overlooked the possibility. I think that other than the things he > specifically planned to do, to ensure Harry won and got to the Cup/ > portkey first, he concentrated all other thoughts on properly acting > out the role of Moody - to the point of overlooking that some of the > things he did as Moody might hurt Voldy's overall efforts. I also think that it is in character for Barty Crouch to believe that his master can do anything. Even if Harry were somewhat familiar with the effects of the curse, Barty would believe that his master's will would be able to overcome anything. And the strength of the curse, it's pretty well indicated, is drawn from the strength of the will of the caster. So he could stay in character without doing any damage. Who, least of all this half-Muggle boy, could stand against the will of Voldemort? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 20:02:42 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:02:42 -0500 Subject: [Re: [Fwd: [HPforGrownups] Ok. Questions, comment,and altogether musing brought out of SS!]] Message-ID: <39D79862.72F36261@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2648 Hi, everyone. I ran the list of "who's this" by that old friend of mine who was into alchemy, and here's his response. He does tend to be pretty thorough, don't he? --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: [HPforGrownups] Ok. Questions, comment,and altogether musing brought out of SS!] Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:37:49 -0400 Hengist is the name of the first King of Kent from 455-488 (the first Saxon, with his brother Horsa, brought in by Vortigern to fight the Picts and Scots). The "of Woodcroft" might be the invented name of someone who might have been named after that King (a la SCA practice) Check out: http://www.ghgcorp.com/shetler/oldimp/161.html Alberic is a common name in the Medieval Europe, with at least one saint (see: http://saints.catholic.org/saints/alberic.html and http://www.catholic.org/saints/saints/alberic2.html) and the dwarf in Wagner's ring cycle. "Grunion" is a type of fish, related to the mullet, which come ashore in southern California to spawn. This is obviously a made-up name. Paracelsus was a famous alchemist and medical researcher in the early 16th century (1493-1541). His real name was Theophrastus Philippus Aureolus Bombastus von Hohenheim. (See: http://pubweb.ucdavis.edu/Documents/ASPANG/Modern/Paracelsus/Introduction.html and http://www.mhiz.unizh.ch/Paracelsus.html) Cliodna is the name of the Celtic goddess of beauty and the otherworld, which has been translated into a Fairy Goddess. People have also named children after her. This is also the name of the Banshee that haunts the MacCarthys. (See: http://www.loggia.com/myth/ireland.html , http://www.open-sesame.com/fairygoddesses.html , and http://www.irishclans.com/folklore/banshee.html) Nicholas Flamel was (is?) a famous Alchemist. He and his wife Perrenelle supposedly worked out how to create the Philosopher's Stone from a book he came into possession of. What is known with certainty is that despite having a mundane job as a bookseller, he suddenly became very rich, giving away lots of gold to found orphanages (many of which still exist today) and help the poor and needy. Legend says that he and is wife faked their deaths, and remain forever young to this day. (See: http://www.alchemylab.com/flamel.htm) If you guys have enough time to stay up all night arguing the authenticity of characters in a children's book, then you have WAY too much free time (or you're in the SCA)... :) Hey, Greg. Laaate night, sorry if I'm incoherent. A question has come up in the Harry Potter discussion group to which I belong, concerning people mentioned someplace or other. One name I recognize (P), but can you tell me if any ring a bell for you, or are they invented? --Mandy pg. 103 *Hengist of Woodcroft, Alberic Grunnion, ...Paracelsus,...Cliodna...* Who ARE these people? Anyone in real life? Also, the headmaster of Hogwarts was supposed to have worked on the philospher's stone with Nicolas Flamel, which name I think is also authentic. Yes? G'night. Man, it's been a long year this week. From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 20:12:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:12:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast References: <000c01c02bd7$789d1f60$5eaf20cc@oemcomputer> <019a01c02bd8$e8245780$71347bd5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39D79AA7.F51870A2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2649 Alix Petty wrote: > Surely he's too old, though. That's been my gripe with this mooted casting > since I heard it. I'm a huge fan of Alan Rickman, I think he's wonderful, > but he's in his 40's if not 50's, and bless him, gorgeous though he is, he > doesn't look like he's in his 30's, Ah, ye of little faith in the makeup department. And I think what Alan Rickman and Maggie Smith can offer in the area of acting will induce me to overlook any age discrepancies. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 20:15:03 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:15:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Imperius curse References: <8r839q+sogm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D79B47.8505889C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2650 eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > And I think it just came naturally > to Harry. Moody (AKA Crouch JR) didn't teach him how to resist it, > how could he? Crouch himself found it enormously difficult to resist > the Imperius Curse, it took him years and then was only partially > successful, and you can't teach what you don't know. Harry defeated > it completely in just a few minutes on only his second try. For some > reason the curse was kid stuff to Harry, resisting it was easy. Or Crouch wasn't bending his will on him ferociously. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 1 20:17:11 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 15:17:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fwd: The Cast References: <8r7u6u+n2m7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D79BC7.998CD581@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2651 Does anyone have an ear to the ground about the role of Dumbledore? Did Richard Harris officially back out? As soon as I heard *that* rumor, I wrote Peter O'Toole's agent! I swear. Weirder things have happened, and it never hurts to ask, eh? But the lines have been silent, at least the ones I know about, and I don't know who ever got cast. If anyone. --Amanda, O'Toole fan from waaay back From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 20:43:00 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 20:43:00 -0000 Subject: The Imperius curse In-Reply-To: <39D79B47.8505889C@texas.net> Message-ID: <8r87kk+soln@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2652 Amanda Lewanski Wrote: >>For some reason the curse was kid stuff to Harry, resisting it was >>easy. > Or Crouch wasn't bending his will on him ferociously. Even after he'd been hideously tortured resisting the curse was easy for Harry, even when the mighty Voldemort himself tried to use it on him. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 1 21:28:22 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 14:28:22 -0700 Subject: Harry's Resistance to Abuse and Imperius Curse Message-ID: <39D7AC76.CCA6B048@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2653 Harry's magical mother's love for him was strong enough to save him from the Avada Kedavra Curse, and remained in/on his body strongly enough that Voldemort couldn't bear the pain of touching him. I think it also protected him from being too much psychologically crippled by the way the Dursleys treated him. People have been talking about the children who survive abuse ('resilient' children, I read about them in PSYCH TODAY many years ago before it went sleazy, who are not turned evil by the abuse, but still have problems with trust and self-worth and depression and stuff that can be helped by therapy) are children who escaped into an active fantasy life and had some adult who demonstrates decent behavior for them. His magical mother left a mental image of herself in his mind that served as the decent adult in his life, and also encouraged him to fantasize better lives. And it also protected him from the Imperius Curse. Yes, I know that "Moody" said that the countercurse to Imperius is to have a strong will, but Harry's experience was that the Curse made him feel all warm and fuzzy and about to do as he was told, but a voice in his head (A VOICE IN HIS HEAD!) said: "Why should I?" and "I think not". THE VOICE OF THE MENTAL IMAGE LEFT BY HIS MOTHER! -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 1 21:30:23 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:30:23 -0400 Subject: cast, ages References: <000c01c02bd7$789d1f60$5eaf20cc@oemcomputer> <019a01c02bd8$e8245780$71347bd5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39D7ACEF.1DF8D057@the-beach.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2654 Alix Petty wrote: > > Surely he's too old, though. That's been my gripe with this mooted casting > since I heard it. I'm a huge fan of Alan Rickman, I think he's wonderful, > but he's in his 40's if not 50's, and bless him, gorgeous though he is, he > doesn't look like he's in his 30's, which IMHO is the age of the Marauder's > generation in the books, and this could throw out the casting of Remus and > Sirius (not to mention any other members of that generation who turn > up...here, I'm thinking of the old crowd mentioned by Dumbledore in Book > 4...no evidence that they're definitely contemporaries of the Marauder's but > certainly possible). Yeah, he's 54, whereas the person who I think is perfect for Sirius - rufus sewell (dead sexy in cold comfort farm!) is almost 20 years younger (and to be honest probably too young for sirius, who I believe should be in his late 30s by the end of GoF) but I have faith in makeup - also it is possible for 2 people of the same age - especially late 30's/early 40's to look like they are 10+ years apart - especially guys - it really goes to the hair - those that have it still in their natural color can look a lot younger than those with hair problems. I don't know, I think it's workable. Btw - I said it before and I'll say it again - the marauders OUGHT to be at least 7 years older than Bill Weasley - otherwise, he should've said something to Harry like In my first year at Hogwarts I saw your dad in his last/second-to-last/etc year as Seeker & he was great! From mellyf at indianvalley.com Sun Oct 1 22:05:02 2000 From: mellyf at indianvalley.com (Melissa F) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 17:05:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast References: <000c01c02bd7$789d1f60$5eaf20cc@oemcomputer> <019a01c02bd8$e8245780$71347bd5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00e201c02bf4$582e0740$d3bc17d0@softfarm.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2655 I agree that Alan Rickman's too old to play Snape. I really do love Rickman's performances, and if he were 10-15 years younger, he'd be my first choice, but I don't think he should play Snape. Melissa F ----- Original Message ----- From: Alix Petty To: Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carole Estes > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 7:43 PM > Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast > > > > > Greetings; I think Rickman is perfect for the role. If you haven't > > > seen Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves you should see Rickman in that. He > > > was perfect as the Sherriff of Nottingham. He has a line about > > > canceling Christmas that still makes me smile. I wouldn't have thought > > > of him as Snape if I hadn't seen this role but he is a really gifted > > > actor. I like Rosie O'Donnell but don't see her in this movie. Tina > > > > Rickman was the best thing about that movie (Robin Hood, that is) he is > > hilarious and very properly vicious...he would make an excellant Snape > based > > on that performance.... > > Surely he's too old, though. That's been my gripe with this mooted casting > since I heard it. I'm a huge fan of Alan Rickman, I think he's wonderful, > but he's in his 40's if not 50's, and bless him, gorgeous though he is, he > doesn't look like he's in his 30's, which IMHO is the age of the Marauder's > generation in the books, and this could throw out the casting of Remus and > Sirius (not to mention any other members of that generation who turn > up...here, I'm thinking of the old crowd mentioned by Dumbledore in Book > 4...no evidence that they're definitely contemporaries of the Marauder's but > certainly possible). > > Mind you, while watching the RNT's Oklahoma the other day, I'm increasing > convinced that Hugh Jackman should play Sirius Black when they get around to > filming Book 3... > > Alix > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 1 23:28:32 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:28:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast References: <000c01c02bd7$789d1f60$5eaf20cc@oemcomputer> <019a01c02bd8$e8245780$71347bd5@oemcomputer> <00e201c02bf4$582e0740$d3bc17d0@softfarm.com> Message-ID: <008801c02bff$536ed080$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2656 I can't help but think Snape might actually LOOK older than he is annually. It sounds like he's spent alot of time with potions, and all the potions' work (except Myrtle's bathroom) has been in the dungeons. Wouldn't that age you physically? Hence looking 54 instead of 34? Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Melissa F To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast I agree that Alan Rickman's too old to play Snape. I really do love Rickman's performances, and if he were 10-15 years younger, he'd be my first choice, but I don't think he should play Snape. Melissa F ----- Original Message ----- From: Alix Petty To: Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Carole Estes > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 7:43 PM > Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast > > > > > Greetings; I think Rickman is perfect for the role. If you haven't > > > seen Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves you should see Rickman in that. He > > > was perfect as the Sherriff of Nottingham. He has a line about > > > canceling Christmas that still makes me smile. I wouldn't have thought > > > of him as Snape if I hadn't seen this role but he is a really gifted > > > actor. I like Rosie O'Donnell but don't see her in this movie. Tina > > > > Rickman was the best thing about that movie (Robin Hood, that is) he is > > hilarious and very properly vicious...he would make an excellant Snape > based > > on that performance.... > > Surely he's too old, though. That's been my gripe with this mooted casting > since I heard it. I'm a huge fan of Alan Rickman, I think he's wonderful, > but he's in his 40's if not 50's, and bless him, gorgeous though he is, he > doesn't look like he's in his 30's, which IMHO is the age of the Marauder's > generation in the books, and this could throw out the casting of Remus and > Sirius (not to mention any other members of that generation who turn > up...here, I'm thinking of the old crowd mentioned by Dumbledore in Book > 4...no evidence that they're definitely contemporaries of the Marauder's but > certainly possible). > > Mind you, while watching the RNT's Oklahoma the other day, I'm increasing > convinced that Hugh Jackman should play Sirius Black when they get around to > filming Book 3... > > Alix > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 1 22:46:00 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:46:00 -0000 Subject: Harry's Resistance to Abuse and Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <39D7AC76.CCA6B048@wicca.net> Message-ID: <8r8er8+bq23@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2657 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > Harry's magical mother's love for him was strong enough to save him from > the Avada Kedavra Curse, and remained in/on his body strongly enough > that Voldemort couldn't bear the pain of touching him. > > I think it also protected him from being too much psychologically > crippled by the way the Dursleys treated him. Harry seems to be able to do instinctively all sorts of things that other people have to be taught. He immediately knows how to ride a broomstick better than Charlie Weasley , he can throw off the imperius curse after an hour or so of training, he knows right away that plunging the basilisk's fang into Riddle's diary will destroy it. And, as many of you remarked, he has thrown off the soul destroying effects of ten years of child abuse. Whatever Lily was doing on the night she died, I don't think it can have been accidental. Harry takes one look into Voldemort's eyes and knows it is no use to ask for mercy, so why was Lily screaming and pleading? Was she in a hysterical panic? Or was she stalling for time while she used some obsolete form of magic, unrecognized by Voldemort, ( no doubt learned from Nicholas Flamel), to protect her son? Pippin From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 09:44:45 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:44:45 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hagrid and his wand References: <8r6mmg+ioj2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2658 I've wondred about that - how does one get a wand - buy one obviuosly, but what was to stop Hagrid buying one before? anyway I don't know that he is considered "cleared" since the information doesn't appeared to have made public in consderation of Ginny Wesley. Maybe, like Snape he has been "rehabilitated" and therfore ok to teach, despite his apparently dubious past. storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 4:47 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hagrid and his wand So, at the end of the Chamber of Secrets, Hagrid is cleared. Does he get a new wand? Obviously, since he becomes the Care of Magical Creatures professor he is considered cleared..... susan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Oct 2 00:53:48 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:53:48 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fwd: The Cast In-Reply-To: <8r7u6u+n2m7@eGroups.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20001001100607.02190a00@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001001175018.02941390@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2659 At 06:02 PM 10/1/00 +0000, Kelley wrote: >A day or two >after you first mentioned Pauline Collins, I happened to see "Shirley >Valentine". I loved it, and I completely agree, she's the ~only~ >choice for Mrs. Weasley. Don't know her husband, but I'll take your >word for it. As far as I know, the only two things on American video he's in are _Upstairs, Downstairs_, and _No, Honestly!_ (a sitcom he did with Pauline in the 70's), but he was a bit younger then. >Do you know who's in charge of casting for SS? Perhaps >we can write WB to nominate Collins? I'd certainly be willing. I too would like to know who to get in touch with... -- Dave From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 2 01:09:18 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 01:09:18 -0000 Subject: Fwd: The Cast In-Reply-To: <39D79BC7.998CD581@texas.net> Message-ID: <8r8n7u+rch9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2660 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Does anyone have an ear to the ground about the role of Dumbledore? Did > Richard Harris officially back out? As soon as I heard *that* rumor, I wrote > Peter O'Toole's agent! I swear. Weirder things have happened, and it never > hurts to ask, eh? But the lines have been silent, at least the ones I know > about, and I don't know who ever got cast. If anyone. > I havent heard anything in a while. There were rumors a few months ago that Patrick Stewart was negotiating to play Dumbly. Ive got 10 galleons bet that he will get the role. -- Joywitch, who often sees Patrick Stewart when she looks in the Mirror of Erised From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 2 01:34:34 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 01:34:34 -0000 Subject: OT Re: Abuse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8r8ona+fmuh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2661 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" wrote: > > > He has had an advantage that many never had. He had 15 months of > total love > > from his parents (I think this is a logical assumption) at the > beginning of > > his life. Things may have gone downhill from there but I still do > not think > > it was that serious. > > > > Simon > > > But the Dursleys have been beastly to him, and what is described is > the classic case of the battered child. > > Susan McGee > former director Child Abuse and Neglect Council, Jackson, Michigan > current director, Domestic Violence Project, Ann Arbor, Michigan > > > Go Susan! bring out the creds! LOL. I ONLY did it to say -- PLEASE! Believe me, I know what I'm talking about....! > Simon I'm going to advance my theory about Harry and abuse again - that is that JKR shows a very evocative and horrible account emotional abuse and depravation - what she doesn't show as realistically is the effect on Harry. Even with his 15 months of love prior to landing (litrally) on the Dursley's door step Harry is a remarkabley well adjusted child, given his circs. This may be the reason for your perspective (which I guess I'm fairly forcefully suggesting is wrong - rude but no sense pretending otherwise) Now I'm going to drag out my creds too - I'm a youth worker, currently working in an agency which oversees Child Protection practice (amougst other things). I've read far too many Court reports, seen far too many childern and young ppl to ever doubt the outcome the treatment meted out by the Dursleys. > > Now it's interesting to conisder that what Harry lives though is the reverse of many abused children - that is they are abused by thier natural parents and then live in foster care where they are (sometimes) safe and well cared for. Your argument that this "innoculates" him from some of the horribleness is possible > But, in my experance, in NSW the current pattern is to restore children to thier n/parents as soon as is fesable (or before often) so that we are seeing more (IMO) children who have been brought up in foster care/kinship care where they have been reasonably well adjusted going to live with thier natural parents - the result 5 or 10 years later is not that dissimilar to if they have never been removed in the first place. > > Harry is a fantsy outcome - for anyone who has lived though abuse - to come out strong and coping, smart and relativly undamaged. but it is not what it is really like. > > > storm > > Yes, Storm, I'm afraid I agree with you that Harry is the fantasy outcome. I know a bunch of neat people who were abused as kids who have flourished, but only after intervention and therapy... I was thinking again...to not be acknowledged, no one says "hi", good morning, no one says good-bye.....if you haven't seen it or experienced it, it's hard to imagine how that eats into someone after a period of time. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 2 01:36:33 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 01:36:33 -0000 Subject: Wesley boys ages In-Reply-To: <8r6tsj+7ufk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r8or1+fa7o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2662 the oldset and youngest Wesley children between to 7 > or 8 years. > who is Wesley? Is he related to Weatherby (lol) From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 2 01:47:27 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 01:47:27 -0000 Subject: no longer completely OT Re: Abuse In-Reply-To: <39D721B8.C42737B7@the-beach.net> Message-ID: <8r8pff+caqb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2663 As susan said, > > > Harry was seriously abused. > > He was the classic scapegoated child in the abused family. > > > His identity as a wizard was taken from him. > > > He was constantly hit, punched, and kicked by Dudley and friends. > > ANd one thing she didn't mention - in book 2 (i don't think it was book 1) Petunia throws a frying pan at his head - he ducks, but her intent was certainly to hurt him badly. > > I do however disagree, on a purely empirical basis, with her statement that > > > JKR vividly recreates the horrible experience of a child who is > > abused and neglected in the worst ways. > > No, neglected in the worst way would've meant leaving him locked in the cubboard instead of with Mrs Figg when they went on week long vacations. Abused in the worst way would've meant more physical scars on him than just the one from Voldemort. Abused & neglected, yes, but not as bad as I've seen it get - and I'm sure susan has seen worse as well. > > Heidi, of course, you are correct. Harry was never burned, or tortured,or drowned...There are worse cases of physical abuse. I think I was trying to say that the type of emotional abuse inflicted on Harry is only done by evil people. The Dursleys may look kind of stupid and harmless in some ways, but in fact what they did to Harry is disgusting. No child should go through that type of treatment. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 2 02:02:14 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 02:02:14 -0000 Subject: Abuse and exam questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8r8qb6+ruaf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2664 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Storm wrote: "Simon I'm going to advance my theory about Harry and abuse > again - that is that JKR shows a very evocative and horrible account > emotional abuse and depravation - what she doesn't show as realistically is > the effect on Harry. Even with his 15 months of love prior to landing > (litrally) on the Dursley's door step Harry is a remarkabley well adjusted > child, given his circs. This may be the reason for your perspective (which I > guess I'm fairly forcefully suggesting is wrong - rude but no sense > pretending otherwise)" > > I will know try and say what I intended to say yesterday. > Yes there definitely was a problem, I am not arguing against this. I think > that we see only a couple of incidents against Harry. My feeling is that > things were in the process of getting a lot worse but up until that point > things had not been too bad. The worst incidents that we hear about are > quite recent, or occur during the books. I may be reading too much into this > and in fact we are only told about recent events even though there are > plenty of others. Goodness. I have a hard time with this post. There were not just a couple of incidents. In PS/SS we are told that there are no pictures of Harry over the fireplace, but only of Dudley. No sign that he lives there. When you suggest that he was not left in his cupboard...the only reason the Dursleys removed him from his cupboard was their fear of ramification. In SS/PS, there is a whole history of Harry's abuse. It is couched usually in his inadvertant magical response to it --- he grows his hair, he apparates to the roof when confronted by school bullies, the sweater shrinks, etc. etc. The Dursleys do not treat him even worse (and what can be more spiteful than sending one tissue as a Christmas present, it would have been kinder had they ignored it)because they are afraid that Dumbledore and his friends will retaliate. Susan > > Storm wrote: "Now it's interesting to conisder that what Harry lives though > is the reverse of many abused children - that is they are abused by thier > natural parents and then live in foster care where they are (sometimes) safe > and well cared for. Your argument that this "innoculates" him from some of > the horribleness is possible" > > My point was that it is the first few years of a child's life that shape > his/her future the most. At least for the first part of this Harry is well > cared for. This may of course have the opposite effect that there is then > the big shock factor of a total change of environment. > > Firebolt wrote: "BTW, Simon, I'm writing up a page of interesting/funny > quotes and anecdotes for my school newspaper - can I mention that Philosophy > Finals question? Please?" > > Fine by me. It is not a question I have ever been asked or an answer I ever > gave. I would not have the confidence to do so. It is something that a > friend told me about, and may in fact have occurred quite a while ago (I > think it is at least 20 years ago). I think the details are all correct but > it may be psychology rather this philosophy. > > Simon From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 2 02:20:11 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 02:20:11 -0000 Subject: Fwd: The Cast In-Reply-To: <39D772F8.6542@voyager.net> Message-ID: <8r8rcr+umb3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2665 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Elf and Orc wrote: > Greetings; I think Rickman is perfect for the role. If you haven't > seen Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves you should see Rickman in that. He > was perfect as the Sherriff of Nottingham. He has a line about > canceling Christmas that still makes me smile. I wouldn't have thought > of him as Snape if I hadn't seen this role but he is a really gifted > actor. I like Rosie O'Donnell but don't see her in this movie. Tina > Oh, goodness, I don't think he was very good as the Sheriff of Nottingham. I don't think Snape should be a comic character, and Rickman was a parody as the Sheriff. (Just watched that movie tonight on video) From drmm at Juno.com Mon Oct 2 02:24:37 2000 From: drmm at Juno.com (Dr M M) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 21:24:37 -0500 Subject: HP posters Message-ID: <20001001.212441.-87109.0.drmm@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2666 So I went to Barnes & Noble tonight in a futile quest to find Cliff Notes for Middlemarch (which I attempted to read, but couldn't get past the first ten chapters -- horrid, nasty prose style IMO). Lo and behold, when I went by the children's section I saw six different Harry Potter posters on display. There was a Hogwarts banner, a Voldemort poster, a Quidditch one, a Fluffy one, a wand one and a potions making one. The artwork looked similar to Mary Grand Pre's style, but I'm not sure. . . I walked out with the potions one because it was the only one that had Snape in it (although I don't think he's quite as, um, ugly and evil looking as he's depicted). I probably shouldn't have bought it. . . but couldn't stop myself. It now occupies a place of honor on my door that was formerly occupied by several anime posters . . . (I have so much anime stuff on my walls that there wasn't anywhere else to put stuff ;) ) I don't know if these are anywhere else (Barnes & Noble is the only decent sized bookstore where I live) but you might want to check these out. ;) *~*~*~*~*~*~* DrMM can be reached at drmm at juno.com or #9689360 on ICQ The Many Worlds of DrMM at http://drmm.simplenet.com/ Most Recent Anime: Irresponsible Captain Tylor ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 2 02:55:04 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 02:55:04 -0000 Subject: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <8r7ou3+c11m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r8te8+ptm9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2667 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, fluctuation at r... wrote: > > One thing that really bugs me is why Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. > > would make Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again > > until he got it right? Wouldn't he have realised that Voldrmort > might > > need the curse to take control of Harry? One possibility is that Crouch was trying to figure Harry out, what makes him tick, what is he capable of, and how could he resist Voldemort. So he repeats the curse over and over, supposedly for Harry and the class's sake, but really so he could analyze how Harry is shaking off the curse. And remember, he said to watch the eyes. Crouch, as he watched with interest, noticed something unusual in Harry's eyes as he fought the curse. And JKR herself has stated that there is something important in the whole Harry/Lily eye thing. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 2 02:57:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 21:57:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Imperius curse References: <8r87kk+soln@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D7F994.20FA068E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2668 eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > Even after he'd been hideously tortured resisting the curse was easy > for Harry, even when the mighty Voldemort himself tried to use it on > him.' Well, he managed to resist it. I think it was far from easy for him, though. --Amanda From find_sam at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 03:07:24 2000 From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 03:07:24 -0000 Subject: Fwd: The Cast In-Reply-To: <019a01c02bd8$e8245780$71347bd5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8r8u5c+73an@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2669 > Mind you, while watching the RNT's Oklahoma the other day, I'm increasing > convinced that Hugh Jackman should play Sirius Black when they get around to > filming Book 3... Hugh'd be brilliant for Sirius! He was great as Wolverine in X-Men (although apparently he wasn't 'right' for the role of Wolverine physically, although I don't know anything about X-Men other than what I saw in the movie). He's already got the big black wolf/dog thing going from his role as Wolverine... plus he's an Aussie ;) I can't see Rosie O'Donnell as Mrs Weasley, either... even if she did have an english accent, she doesn't really have the It Girl factor we need for Mrs Weasley. From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Oct 2 03:44:27 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 03:44:27 -0000 Subject: New "Cast" photos up in the Files section. Message-ID: <8r90ar+fq54@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2670 I've just posted some pix of some actors and actresses who have been suggested in recent (and not-so-recent) posts. Take a look at Files / Cast Photos / Members' Suggestions. Here are the names, along with a few editorial comments: John Cleese - my personal favorite for Dumbledore. Take a look at the great photo! Pauline Collins - proposed for Mrs. Weasley Hugh Jackman - proposed for Sirius Black (Wolverine in X-men) Peter O'Toole - proposed for Dumbledore (23-year old photo) Rufus Sewell - a knockout Sirius Black! Rosie O'Donnell has been posted under /Cast Photos / Debunked Casting Rumors. -Jim Flanagan From SHENmagic at aol.com Mon Oct 2 03:48:52 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:48:52 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 125 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2671 In a message dated 10/1/00 6:10:24 PM, Alix >Mind you, while watching the RNT's Oklahoma the other day, I'm increasing >convinced that Hugh Jackman should play Sirius Black when they get around >to >filming Book 3... Is that the same Hugh Jackman who played Wolverine in the X-Men? If so, he also gets my vote! Aylihael ? We are the ones who chase pixies, Run with the unicorns, Dance with the faeries, Sing with the sirens, Soar with the phoenixes, And swim with the mermaids. We are the ones who believe in the Unbelievable. We are the ones who dare to dream.? ~author unknown From summers.65 at osu.edu Mon Oct 2 05:41:18 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:41:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fwd: The Cast Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2672 >> Mind you, while watching the RNT's Oklahoma the other day, I'm >increasing >> convinced that Hugh Jackman should play Sirius Black when they get >around to >> filming Book 3... > >Hugh'd be brilliant for Sirius! He was great as Wolverine in X-Men >(although apparently he wasn't 'right' for the role of Wolverine >physically, although I don't know anything about X-Men other than >what I saw in the movie). (Lori puts on her X-Men fan hat) The only problem with Hugh was that the real Logan is five feet three inches tall. Hugh is six foot one. But realistically, a Wolverine who was shorter than Anna Paquin would have looked a little strange. Going in, I wasn't sure they could find a living breathing person who could play Wolverine (a very complicated character) the way he should be played. Perfect ten, Hugh was amazing. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Made for Taster's Choice" Summers Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one's out to get you. Last movie seen: "American Beauty" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "Animal Dreams" by Barbara Kingsolver *************************************************** From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 04:45:34 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 04:45:34 -0000 Subject: book 4... something troubles me... Message-ID: <8r93te+m96h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2673 Okay, now there is a piece of the puzzle in book 4 that troubles me. If you all recall to chapter 36, page 696, 1st paragraph (hardcover), Harry is back to Hogwarts, back from the conforatation with Voldemort, and is explaining his experience to Dumbledore. When Harry mentions how Voldemort no longer felt pain when he touched Harry's face. Right there, in the 2nd paragraph, it says, "For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure he imagined it " what is this supposed to mean? Are we going to find out in book 5, 6 or 7 that Dumbledore is actually evil?? odile From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 04:49:58 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 04:49:58 -0000 Subject: Will Dumbledore be evil? Message-ID: <8r945m+j9of@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2674 Okay, now there is a piece of the puzzle in book 4 that troubles me. If you all recall to chapter 36, page 696, 1st paragraph (hardcover), Harry is back to Hogwarts, back from the conforatation with Voldemort, and is explaining his experience to Dumbledore. When Harry mentions how Voldemort no longer felt pain when he touched Harry's face. Right there, in the 2nd paragraph, it says, "For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure he imagined it " what is this supposed to mean? Are we going to find out in book 5, 6 or 7 that Dumbledore is actually evil?? odile From brooksar at indy.net Mon Oct 2 05:15:32 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 05:15:32 -0000 Subject: Will Dumbledore be evil? In-Reply-To: <8r945m+j9of@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r95lk+25km@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2675 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Odile Alburquerque" < oalburquerque at h...> wrote: > "For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of > somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, > Harry was sure he imagined it " what is this supposed to mean? In the FAQ, this will be "No-one except JKR knows the answer to this yet, but we have certainly made a lot of electrons flow with our theories. A favorite one is that Voldemort has created some unforeseen vulnerability for himself, which Dumbledore realizes." From brooksar at indy.net Mon Oct 2 05:25:00 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 05:25:00 -0000 Subject: The Imperius curse In-Reply-To: <8r839q+sogm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r967c+p6mb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2676 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > Wrote: > > >One thing that really bugs me is why Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. > >would make Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again > >until he got it right? (snip) > > It says near the end of Goblet of Fire when he encounters > Mr. Riddle that Harry experienced the imperius curse for only the > third time in his life, so Moody didn't do it over and over again, he > did it exactly twice. The first time Harry almost defeated it, then > it says by the end of the class Harry could overcome it completely. > So he must have done it two times. (snip) Errmmm. Harry gets it twice in the class when it was introduced, but didn't it say a few days later that Moody/Crouch told them that Dumbledore wanted them all to undergo it for practice, and there imply that it was done over and over? I can't look it up because my GoF is in my work cubicle mate's possession, as I seduce her to the Harry Potter side of the force..... From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 06:22:27 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 06:22:27 -0000 Subject: The Imperius curse In-Reply-To: <8r967c+p6mb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8r99j3+lpt2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2677 "Brooks R" Wrote: Harry gets it twice in the class when it was introduced, but > didn't it say a few days later that Moody/Crouch told them that > Dumbledore wanted them all to undergo it for practice, and there > imply that it was done over and over? I don't remember anything like that. From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 08:25:54 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:25:54 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wesley boys ages References: <8r8or1+fa7o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2678 very closeley related, if not twinish the certainly not as distant as a cousin LOL storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:36 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wesley boys ages the oldset and youngest Wesley children between to 7 > or 8 years. > who is Wesley? Is he related to Weatherby (lol) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From whisper2ascream13 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 2 13:01:23 2000 From: whisper2ascream13 at yahoo.com (Diana ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:01:23 -0000 Subject: New "Cast" photos up in the Files section. In-Reply-To: <8r90ar+fq54@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ra0v3+bjq4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2679 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > I've just posted some pix of some actors and actresses who have been > suggested in recent (and not-so-recent) posts. Take a look at > Files / Cast Photos / Members' Suggestions. Here are the names, > along with a few editorial comments: > > John Cleese - my personal favorite for Dumbledore. Take a look at > the great photo! > > Pauline Collins - proposed for Mrs. Weasley > > Hugh Jackman - proposed for Sirius Black (Wolverine in X-men) > > Peter O'Toole - proposed for Dumbledore (23-year old photo) > > Rufus Sewell - a knockout Sirius Black! > > > Rosie O'Donnell has been posted under /Cast Photos / Debunked Casting > Rumors. > > -Jim Flanagan Either John Cleese or Peter O'Toole would be delightful. Though, Cleese might be slightly too comedic for the role. Anyone recall any dramas he's been in? Peter O'Toole I know has done both comedy and drama admirably and would be an interesting Dumbledore. As for Rufus Sewell, oh God, I hope he might be at least considered for Sirius Black. (If there's enough money for the sequels. *knock on wood*) I think he would be excellent. I admit, I've been a fan ever since I saw him play John Murdoch in Aex Proyas' Dark City. (Excellent movie, a mix of sci-fi and noir, highly recommend it if you haven't seen it yet!) He's had some experiance with such roles, he certainly looks the part, and he's a talented actor. Checked the files for other names mentioned. I still Maggie Smith, wonderful actress that she is, is too old for McGonagall. I thought the good Professor was merely in her forties? Or is that being kind? Hmmmm.... and thanks for the notice on moving. Yes, I'm very late, but been busy with work and new semester, and I always like making an entrance! LOL! ~Whisper From dorband at uwp.edu Mon Oct 2 13:31:44 2000 From: dorband at uwp.edu (Brian Dorband) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:31:44 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's age/Dumbledor's age wasRe: Vokdy's age In-Reply-To: <8r67k0+l70u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ra2o0+rg4v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2680 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: We see Albus Dumbledore as an adult teaching Tom Riddle. Assuming that Dumbledore was at least 20, that makes him 86...or if he was 30 then, 96, ...or am I doing > something wrong? No, I think that's correct; although I'm inclined to believe that AD has received at least *some* benefit from being Flamel's partner in *some* form - maybe extended age, maybe something else - else, why would we even need to know of their partnership? We have not seen Flamel...I don't like that, btw - he seems too integral, too important, not just to the first book, but to the entire series. He is, after all, the oldest living wizard (and, I have contended, the richest)! Is Flamel dead by book 4? By book 3? 2? When? Will JKR tell us when Flamel actually departs the living world. It would seem reasonable for the entire wizarding world to pay homage to him for his longevity and other accomplishments. Or perhaps the wizarding population at-large doesn't really care for Flamel...jealous, maybe; maybe he hasn't done all that some think he can, or should, do. I know this is all wild speculation, but I think that he is still alive and will actually make an appearance before the end of the series. I have no real compelling hint that that will happen. He is apparently only a minor plot device in Book 1. I just think that Flamel MUST play a larger role - unless he's just a washed-up, doddering old wheezy wizard...nah!!! Brian From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 2 14:40:09 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:40:09 -0500 Subject: Yahoo's mail service fails to deliver Message-ID: <012c01c02c7e$b0b30e80$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2681 By Paul Festa Staff Writer, CNET News.com September 29, 2000, 11:15 a.m. PT URL: http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-2895404.html An interesting story--wonder if it also refers to their clubs????? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From elowyl at yahoo.com Mon Oct 2 13:55:41 2000 From: elowyl at yahoo.com (eunika ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:55:41 -0000 Subject: New "Cast" photos up in the Files section. In-Reply-To: <8r90ar+fq54@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ra44t+btc1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2682 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > I've just posted some pix of some actors and actresses who have been > suggested in recent (and not-so-recent) posts. Take a look at > Files / Cast Photos / Members' Suggestions. Here are the names, > along with a few editorial comments: > > John Cleese - my personal favorite for Dumbledore. Take a look at > the great photo! > > Pauline Collins - proposed for Mrs. Weasley > > Hugh Jackman - proposed for Sirius Black (Wolverine in X-men) > > Peter O'Toole - proposed for Dumbledore (23-year old photo) > > Rufus Sewell - a knockout Sirius Black! > > > Rosie O'Donnell has been posted under /Cast Photos / Debunked Casting > Rumors. > > -Jim Flanagan Hmmm... just a suggestion, but what abt considering Johnny Depp for the role of sirius black.... (u/l-ed a pix of him from sleepy hollow) eunice From brooksar at indy.net Mon Oct 2 13:58:46 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:58:46 -0000 Subject: The Imperius curse In-Reply-To: <8r99j3+lpt2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ra4am+ffeo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2683 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > "Brooks R" Wrote: > > > Harry gets it twice in the class when it was introduced, but > > didn't it say a few days later that Moody/Crouch told them that > > Dumbledore wanted them all to undergo it for practice, and there > > imply that it was done over and over? > > I don't remember anything like that. US edition chapter 15 p.230. On the first day of class Moody/Crouch shows them with the spiders, but on this page he tells them Dumbledore wanted them all to experience it for practice. On p.232 "Moody had insisted on putting Harry through his paces *four times in a row*, until Harry could throw off the curse entirely". Yet you are also right, in Chapter 34, US page 61, "For the third time in his life, Harry felt..." *-my emphasis So what are we missing? Or did JKR miscount? Is there another occasion besides the lessons Harry experiences this? -Brooks From brooksar at indy.net Mon Oct 2 14:00:31 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 14:00:31 -0000 Subject: Wesley boys ages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8ra4dv+suu0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2684 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" wrote: > very closeley related, if not twinish the certainly not as distant as a cousin > Wesley won't be born for another few centuries. ;-> From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Mon Oct 2 14:12:05 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (bel_imperia at btinternet.com) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 15:12:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: New "Cast" photos up in the Files section. Message-ID: <39d897b5.6d8c.0@btinternet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2685 >Hmmm... just a suggestion, but what abt considering Johnny Depp for >the role of sirius black.... (u/l-ed a pix of him from sleepy hollow) I think Johnny Depp is a terrific actor, but I think, despite his emaciation etc., we need a real hunk for Sirius...but maybe I'm biased ;-) - not that JD is not attractive, but I see Sirius as a bit of an action man, and he *definitely* wore motorbike leathers before he was sent to Azkaban. So my money is still on that all- singing, all-dancing, all Aussie Hugh Jackman! However, what about Johnny Depp as Remus Lupin...I could definitely go for that, and his accent is pretty decent, too. I agree that Rosie O'Donnell would be bad casting, but I don't see Pauline Collins as Mrs Weasley either. Personally, I think Imelda Staunton is perfect...and she has red hair, too! Alix From jciesla at madbbs.com Mon Oct 2 15:11:38 2000 From: jciesla at madbbs.com (Julia L. Ciesla) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 11:11:38 -0400 Subject: cast-rosie In-Reply-To: <02d801c02bc7$36ea87c0$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> References: <8r3vsr+sln8@eGroups.com> <39D588DF.601C24C8@ibm.net> <00bb01c02aee$9d1bc600$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39D69F81.86623D9D@texas.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001002111138.007a8db0@mail.madbbs.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2686 The only good thing that could come out of casting Rosie as Mrs. Weasley is her annoying voice when Ron gets a howler *grins* Otherwise... she doesn't deserve the part! Julia From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 2 15:16:24 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:16:24 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Coloring Fun Book Message-ID: <8ra8s8+atl5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2687 Hi, This was book was mentioned a couple of weeks ago here. It's published by Scholastic (who won't sell it to you no matter how much you beg and plead) and it's in auction sites like EBay (I saw one sold for over $ 10. 00!). Anyhow, I recently found this web site http://www.thelatestcrazestore.com . It carries the aforementioned book plus posters, mugs, etc. The book costs $6. 95. --Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 2 15:28:06 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:28:06 -0000 Subject: cast-rosie In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20001002111138.007a8db0@mail.madbbs.com> Message-ID: <8ra9i6+jpu2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2688 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Julia L. Ciesla" wrote: > The only good thing that could come out of casting Rosie as Mrs. Weasley is > her annoying voice when Ron gets a howler *grins* Otherwise... she doesn't > deserve the part! > > Julia I, unfortunately, walked by a group of tv sets in a department store one afternoon when Rosie was on. Julie Andrews was the guest and Rosie did the WORST "English" accent I've ever heard! She sounded like a Valley Girl with a cold. *shivers* I'm very happy that they are sticking to a British cast. I love the BCC comedy and dramatic imports my PBS station shows. In fact, when I first read the Aunt Petunia parts, I was reminded of Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced "Boo-kay") from the series "Keeping Up Appearances". lol I keep arguing with a friend of mine that Trevor Eve ("Mr. Murdstone" in "David Copperfield") would make a decent Lucius Malfoy. --Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 2 15:33:08 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:33:08 -0000 Subject: book 4... something troubles me... In-Reply-To: <8r93te+m96h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ra9rk+q3up@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2689 I don't think Dumbledore is evil. I think he realized that V messed up. If you read the bit right before that, Harry shows Dumbledore the cut on his arm. I'm probably wrong but maybe Wormtail got the blood from the "wrong part" of Harry? Either that or Dumbledore knows that the only way for Harry to defeat V. will involve some kind of hand-to-hand battle...Afterall, Dumbledore defeated a Dark wizard before and knows how to do it. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Odile Alburquerque" wrote: > Okay, now there is a piece of the puzzle in book 4 that troubles me. > If you all recall to chapter 36, page 696, 1st paragraph (hardcover), > Harry is back to Hogwarts, back from the conforatation with > Voldemort, and is explaining his experience to Dumbledore. > > When Harry mentions how Voldemort no longer felt pain when he > touched Harry's face. Right there, in the 2nd paragraph, it > says, "For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of > somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, > Harry was sure he imagined it " what is this supposed to mean? > Are we > going to find out in book 5, 6 or 7 that Dumbledore is actually evil?? > > odile From vjmerri at iquest.net Mon Oct 2 15:46:27 2000 From: vjmerri at iquest.net (Vicki Merriman) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:46:27 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Coloring Fun Book and other Schtuph In-Reply-To: <8ra8s8+atl5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8raakj+pfkm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2690 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > Hi, > > Anyhow, I recently found this web site > http://www.thelatestcrazestore.com . It carries the aforementioned > book plus posters, mugs, etc. The book costs $6. 95. The coloring book may be a good deal if its the only place you can get one, but the other stuff is definitely NOT. They are selling the ornaments for 25.00 a piece when I just purchased them in the WB store for 8 and $10 respectively. That's a $50 total v. $18, which seems a tad excessive on the profit margin. Also, my mugs only cost $8.00 a piece and they wanted $12.00 each for the two I purchased, so that's a 50% increase. If you've got a local WB store, definitely go there. If you DON"T have a local WB, try to find it elsewhere on line, maybe at the regular online WB store. It has to be cheaper. However, if I can't find the coloring book elsewhere, I may shell out the money for it, but I'll look elsewhere first. Vicki From eliasberg at ioc.net Mon Oct 2 16:35:27 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 16:35:27 -0000 Subject: Rickman as Snape Message-ID: <8radgf+b2fa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2691 Susan, I think you should watch Die Hard, Rickman is perfect as Snape. As for the abused child syndrome, you should try to remember that it is a book, a fantasy book, that was trying to make a point that no matter how bad it gets there is hope at the end of the tunnel. You should watch JKRs interviews and she talks about Harry's treatment and why he is treated as poorly as he is. Perhaps you should shelve the credentials and listen to what Dumbledore says, " it is the decisions we make that make us who we are". From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 2 17:13:02 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:13:02 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Coloring Fun Book and other Schtuph In-Reply-To: <8raakj+pfkm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rafmu+k16@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2692 The Coloring Book is reasonable. When I was begging Scholastic to sell me one because I don't have/know a child who belongs to a Scholastic book club, the price they quoted was $5. 95. I was told that Scholastic wasn't selling the coloring book to non-club members because it was used as a replacement for a another book. So the $6 .95 is a heck of alot better than the EBay prices or the Yahoo auction price of $15. I really didn't know how the prices of the other items compared. Thanks for the FYI, Vicki. :-) --Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vicki Merriman" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Anyhow, I recently found this web site > > http://www.thelatestcrazestore.com . It carries the aforementioned > > book plus posters, mugs, etc. The book costs $6. 95. > > The coloring book may be a good deal if its the only place you can > get one, but the other stuff is definitely NOT. They are selling the > ornaments for 25.00 a piece when I just purchased them in the WB > store for 8 and $10 respectively. That's a $50 total v. $18, which > seems a tad excessive on the profit margin. > > Also, my mugs only cost $8.00 a piece and they wanted $12.00 each for > the two I purchased, so that's a 50% increase. > > If you've got a local WB store, definitely go there. If you DON"T > have a local WB, try to find it elsewhere on line, maybe at the > regular online WB store. It has to be cheaper. > > However, if I can't find the coloring book elsewhere, I may shell out > the money for it, but I'll look elsewhere first. > > Vicki From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Oct 2 17:53:43 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 17:53:43 -0000 Subject: Abuse Message-ID: <8rai37+ivhf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2693 JKR is not writing a treatise on the consequences of child abuse and is using dramatic license to portray the effect on Harry as less severe than it would be in real life. Harry is depicted as withdrawn and distrustful with most people, but has not lost the ability to connect or to trust all together. This is no more realistic than Neville's bouncing down the street as a result of being dropped out the window. My two knutes Pippin From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 2 18:04:03 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 18:04:03 -0000 Subject: Rickman as Snape In-Reply-To: <8radgf+b2fa@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8raimj+7a2m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2694 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eliasberg at i... wrote: > As for the abused child syndrome, you should try to remember > that it is a book, a fantasy book, that was trying to make a point > that no matter how bad it gets there is hope at the end of the > tunnel. You should watch JKRs interviews and she talks about > Harry's treatment and why he is treated as poorly as he is. > Perhaps you should shelve the credentials and listen to what > Dumbledore says, " it is the decisions we make that make us > who we are". Thanks for the above statement. I think we are getting way too carried away with the abuse discussion. I know I shouldnt talk - I often find it hard to resist blathering on about OT topics that interest me. But please, lets keep the discussion focused on HP and remember that it is a work of FICTION! [Even though part of me keeps hoping it is real.] There is plenty of real-life child abuse, injustice, etc. to get all upset about; we dont need to get too bent out of shape about by possible abuse suffered by fictional characters. -- Joywitch, who suspects her cats killed the owl carrying her Hogwarts admission letter From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 18:50:52 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:50:52 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] World Cup Seating References: <8qt2pj+7g63@eGroups.com> <39D26BFE.620E7D20@texas.net> <39D29F33.C2043D05@hic.net> Message-ID: <003501c02ca1$cfef57e0$7f8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2695 > Well, you could be right here. But, it's also possible in my mind that > she could have reached both boys if she wanted to. Ron wouldn't have > been as out of reach as say the twins. But, of course, she could remain > seated & yank Harry back down though -- as you said. So, maybe it was > just laziness (or practicality as you said) on her part. Maybe. But Hermione is only 14 and is not likely to have long arms. While she's quite capable of reaching a boy sitting next to her, reaching round him at the same time to grab the boy sitting on his other side is beyond even Our Hermie. BTW interesting factoid for you. Apparently Hermione is derived from the Greek meaning "daughter of Hermes"! Anyone who knows anything about the god in question can tell that there's a definite family pattern there; they're both very quick witted and intelligent, both are the archetypal student and both are willing to break the rules if necessary to get what they want. Also a certain manipulativeness with both of them - Hermione's "goody-goody/would never break the rules" image does come in rather handy when she *does* need to break them on occasion (witness in CoS when she calculates that it's best for her to raid Snape's cupboard as she's least likely to be suspected and likely to get in trouble if she is caught). Now I'm not saying that Hermione is a persistent and compulsive rule-breaker who acts all innocent so teachers won't suspect her. She's clearly not. Her top of the class/well-behaved image is genuine, she's not faking it. But she's more than willing to use it to her advantage if required. In short, I don't think it's a coincidence that HG has a name linking her with a god noted for logical thought, quick thinking, studying and the occasional willingness to disregard rules when they get in the way. Jinx From lmrourke at snet.net Mon Oct 2 18:55:40 2000 From: lmrourke at snet.net (Lisa Rourke) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:55:40 -0400 Subject: Lupin and a cure for Lycanthropy Message-ID: <001201c02ca2$5e6e87c0$e2383ccc@krass> No: HPFGUIDX 2696 Hi. I'm pretty new to this group so forgive me if this has been discussed before. Here goes....something has been bothering me since I read books 2 & 3 about Professor Lupin and whether or not there is a cure for him. In CoS (American version) Chapter 10 page 161, Harry is acting a werewolf for Lockhart's class. Lockhart demonstrates how "he" cured the Wagga Wagga Werewolf by performing the "immensely complex Homorphus Charm". Then in CoS Chapter 16 Lockhart admits to Harry and Ron that he took credit for what other wizards and witches had done in order to sell his books. He mentions that no one would want to read about some ugly old Armenian warlock who saved a village from werewolves (using the Homorphus Charm perhaps?). Lupin himself says in PoA that when he was bitten as a young boy his parents tried everything but back then there was no cure. Implying there is one now? (Or maybe there is one now but it only works when you're first bitten?) I would think that even though Lockhart is in no position to reveal his sources at the end of book 2 and the actual person who performed the spell has no memory of it, that there would have to be others who could. Right? Maybe? Any thoughts? (Can you tell I'm a big Lupin fan ;-)!) P.S. I also think That Alan Rickman would make an excellent Severus Snape. He has such a great face(maybe a little too good looking) and wonderful eyes. I can just picture him scowling at Harry! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 18:59:14 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:59:14 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Dursley's References: Message-ID: <004201c02ca2$e890c620$7f8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2697 > Why is Vernon so scared of the magic community? Is it possible that Vernon > was related to the Riddles? Possible, but not necessary to the plot so far. Fear of what you don't understand is sadly not linked solely to one family. > Who was older, Lily of Petunia? I'd guess older, if only because the fact that Lily's witchness was so indulged by her (presumably) Muggle parents indicates that they tended to favour her anyway. There's a lot more going on there than mere envy of magical powers - Petunia was jealous of Lily being favoured by their parents anyway and the magic was the last straw. Leading me to believe that Lily is the mollycoddled younger sibling and baby of the family while Petunia was always expected to be the responsible older one. > Is the overindulgence of his parents a form of abuse? Dudley appears to > believe that he should always get his way. In some ways it is a form of abuse, but then Dudley appears to be the type of child who'd always be obnoxious even with parents who actually disciplined him. > Did Dudley learn anything from eating candy from Fred and George? I very much doubt it. :) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 19:05:29 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:05:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore as Headmaster References: <39D2B4F9.20177728@ibm.net> Message-ID: <004501c02ca3$bd223180$7f8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2698 > I believe that Dumbledore is wise, and that he is earned the respect he > is given by the wizarding world (and the thwarted snarls behind his back > he gets from the Deatheaters). So what's up with his bad faculty > picks? Well, I suppose he can't be blamed for Barty Crouch, Jr.--he > hired someone else, after all. True, but I find really hard to believe that if Moody and AD were as close as the text implies, that it took him all year to realise that he was an impostor. Surely Barty must have made some mistakes? >But Gilderoy Lockhart? CoS reckons that he was the only applicant for the job (although we're also told that Snape wanted it, so why is Lockhart better than Snape?). Trelawney? > Snape? Bad luck, distraction, or some other mysterious design? Well, there's lots about Snape that we don't know yet, so maybe the answer to that one is coming up. He appears to be implacably opposed to Voldemort, and a strong wizard as well, two good reasons for AD wanting him around. Also, while he's a complete bastard, he is very good at Potions, there's no denying it. > Or maybe the teachers who are so terrible (Snape, Trelawney) were hired > by his predecessor and have tenure and he can't get rid of them? > > (Do English/Scottish schools HAVE tenure?) I don't believe so, but I'm told teaching unions make it quite difficult to sack teachers except in extreme circumstances. Don't know if that applies to Hogwarts though. Jinx From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 20:02:25 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:02:25 -0000 Subject: Lupin and a cure for Lycanthropy In-Reply-To: <001201c02ca2$5e6e87c0$e2383ccc@krass> Message-ID: <8rapkh+nheh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2699 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Lisa Rourke" wrote: << Hi. I'm pretty new to this group so forgive me if this has been discussed before. Here goes....something has been bothering me since I read books 2 & 3 about Professor Lupin and whether or not there is a cure for him. In CoS (American version) Chapter 10 page 161, Harry is acting a werewolf for Lockhart's class. Lockhart demonstrates how "he" cured the Wagga Wagga Werewolf by performing the "immensely complex Homorphus Charm". Then in CoS Chapter 16 Lockhart admits to Harry and Ron that he took credit for what other wizards and witches had done in order to sell his books. He mentions that no one would want to read about some ugly old Armenian warlock who saved a village from werewolves (using the Homorphus Charm perhaps?).>> First of all, there is no reason to believe *anything* that Lockhart says, and the Homorphus Charm might well be a little embellishment of his to make the story more exciting. Quite possibly the Armenian warlock simply killed a werewolf that was terrorising a village and Lockhart played around with the story until it was exciting enough for his taste. What I actually think is that it's a small plot hole of JKR's (I know, it's a boring explanation) and that she just forgot about Lupin when writing Lockhart and vice versa. She has several werewolf plot holes (which have been driving me crazy for months!), like the fact that it seems she has two different types of werewolves (c.f. in CoS Riddle saying that Hagrid used to raise werewolf cubs under his bed and in PS/SS Ron saying that there are wild werewolves in the Forbidden Forest), and Lupin's transformation in PoA where he only changes shape when the moon comes out from behind the cloud, which is very strange. <> I did notice that 'back then' quote, and I wondered whether there might be a cure now. Clearly it's not possible for Remus to use it or he would. >From a storytelling point of view, I would not like it at all if someone managed to cure Remus of lycanthropy. It would change him so much... > Any thoughts? (Can you tell I'm a big Lupin fan ;-)!) Hurray! Another Lupinfreak! :-) If you like fanfic (or even if you don't), go to http://www.fanfiction.net and find 'Call of the Wild' by WolfieTwins, which is the *best* story about Lupin, and has a lot about werewolves and their nature in it. Amongst a great deal of other things, it shows Lockhart making a fool of himself trying to catch vampires and werewolves... it's very funny and also very moving. A must-read. -Blaise, who can't ever resist recommending Call of the Wild to anyone. From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 2 20:06:35 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:06:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New "Cast" photos up in the Files section. References: <8r90ar+fq54@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D8EACA.4465A97C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2700 Jim Flanagan wrote: > John Cleese - my personal favorite for Dumbledore. Take a look at > the great photo! Good heavens, I never thought of him. He'd be wonderful! > Peter O'Toole - proposed for Dumbledore (23-year old photo) ...although I still love the blue eyes and abstracted manner. > Rosie O'Donnell has been posted under /Cast Photos / Debunked Casting > Rumors. Please, please tell me she's not doing it? --Amanda From ashley1591284 at cs.com Mon Oct 2 20:21:47 2000 From: ashley1591284 at cs.com (ashley1591284 at cs.com) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:21:47 EDT Subject: Imperius Curse/Harry's Instincts Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2701 In a message dated 10/2/00 6:16:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: << > Even after he'd been hideously tortured resisting the curse was easy > for Harry, even when the mighty Voldemort himself tried to use it on > him.' Well, he managed to resist it. I think it was far from easy for him, though. --Amanda >> Actually, it seemed relatively easy, considering that the Imperius Curse had been used to control many very powerful adult wizards, and kept Barty Crouch Jr. at bay for years. It seems instictive to Harry to resist the commands given to him, and he therefore has a very strong will. << He immediately knows how to ride a broomstick better than Charlie Weasley , he can throw off the imperius curse after an hour or so of training, he knows right away that plunging the basilisk's fang into Riddle's diary will destroy it. And, as many of you remarked, he has thrown off the soul destroying effects of ten years of child abuse. Whatever Lily was doing on the night she died, I don't think it can have been accidental.>> I don't think that this is solely the result of some kind of magical protection bestowed upon him by Lily the night she died, if there is any connection at all. I don't think that Lily did anything more than save Harry that night, and there was probably some deeper reason that he survived that we are currently unaware of. In any case, it seems odd to attribute all of Harry's instincts and talents to some sort of spell his mother put on him, and it doesn't really do our hero justice. ~Ashley From particle at urbanet.ch Mon Oct 2 20:28:25 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:28:25 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin and a cure for Lycanthropy References: <8rapkh+nheh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b201c02caf$511b0c80$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 2702 > Hurray! Another Lupinfreak! :-) If you like fanfic (or even if you > don't), go to http://www.fanfiction.net and find 'Call of the Wild' > by WolfieTwins, which is the *best* story about Lupin, and has a lot > about werewolves and their nature in it. Amongst a great deal of > other things, it shows Lockhart making a fool of himself trying to > catch vampires and werewolves... it's very funny and also very > moving. A must-read. > > -Blaise, who can't ever resist recommending Call of the Wild to > anyone. I second that recommdation, and would like to add the fics of Hyphen, CLS, Moon, and Blaise herself...unless you've already read their stuff, of course ^_^. ~Firebolt Lupin no Seishi (get the reference, Dr MM?) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 2 20:38:48 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 15:38:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin and a cure for Lycanthropy References: <8rapkh+nheh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D8F258.5822FA17@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2703 Blaise wrote: > First of all, there is no reason to believe *anything* that Lockhart > says, and the Homorphus Charm might well be a little embellishment of > his to make the story more exciting. Quite possibly the Armenian > warlock simply killed a werewolf that was terrorising a village and > Lockhart played around with the story until it was exciting enough > for his taste. Well, I'm betting that Lockhart's embellishment consisted of the "cure." >From the name of the charm, it simply makes the werewolf take human form. For how long, or with what sort of mental capacity at the time, is unclear. Or maybe JKR did overlook it. > She has several werewolf plot holes (which have been driving me crazy > for months!), like the fact that it seems she has two different types > of werewolves (c.f. in CoS Riddle saying that Hagrid used to raise > werewolf cubs under his bed and in PS/SS Ron saying that there are > wild werewolves in the Forbidden Forest), and Lupin's transformation > in PoA where he only changes shape when the moon comes out from > behind the cloud, which is very strange. Perhaps there *are* two kinds. "Natural," or "animal," the wild ones, who are wolves most of the time, live in forests, have the minds of wolves, but can shape-change and can infect humans via their bite. And "human," the people born human who are infected by another werewolf, natural or human. The humans so infected develop the curse and change into wolves---mind *and* body. The werewolf 'virus' is similar to other animal-borne diseases which affect humans, and for which there is no cure, like rabies or that thing monkey-handlers get. As I'm sitting here, without researching or anything, as I recall it's always the light of the moon, not the time, that causes the change. I don't see anything strange about them being safe while the moon was covered....? --Amanda From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 21:16:42 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:16:42 -0000 Subject: Lupin and a cure for Lycanthropy In-Reply-To: <39D8F258.5822FA17@texas.net> Message-ID: <8ratvq+m9cc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2704 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: <> Yes, I like this explanation, it makes good sense. Possibly the werewolf Lockhart was referring to was one of the 'animal' sort? <> Ah, let me explain. Remus says that he transforms once a month, at the full moon, for one night (at least, those are the implications of his words and I can't see that there could be any others). Therefore the moon must have been full that night in the Shrieking Shack. BUT, if Remus only transformed when the moon shone on him, how could he have transformed in the boarded-up Shrieking Shack all through his childhood? And if he only transformed in moonlight then all he'd have to do is stay inside on full moon nights and he'd be fine. Thirdly, anyone who's lived in the British Isles will know that it's very often cloudy. So, in order for Remus to transform if the transformation were triggered by moonlight, it would have to be a clear full moon nights and he would have to be exposed to the moonlight. This is patently not what he was describing in the Shrieking Shack when he talks of his childhood transformation, nor indeed what happened when he transformed in his office after taking Wolfsbane. So the transformation cannot be triggered by moonlight, but by the rising of the full moon. And the moon was long since risen when Remus transformed. So there's a plot hole, and it's been driving me nuts! -Blaise, hoping she's explained clearly. From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 2 21:23:50 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:23:50 +0100 Subject: Lupin and werewolf's Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2705 Blaise wrote: "So the transformation cannot be triggered by moonlight, but by the rising of the full moon. And the moon was long since risen when Remus transformed. So there's a plot hole, and it's been driving me nuts!" One possibility is that he transforms automatically on the night of the full moon, no matter if he is inside or anything else is blocking out the moonlight. If it is close to the full moon then being in moonlight triggers the transformation. The first point explains why he had to go to the shack, when he was a child, in the first place. On the night of the full moon he would transform into 'a monster'. The night in the Shrieking Shack is then explained by it being an example of the second of my points above. I am not sure, and have not checked, but I believe that we are not told that the night in question is a full moon. Simon From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 2 21:36:25 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:36:25 +0100 Subject: Hogsmeade References: <39D79862.72F36261@texas.net> Message-ID: <002d01c02cb8$d1d9f260$9b5a893e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 2706 Today I was forced to sit through a two hour ICT lecture on emailing and surfing the web. IMNSHO this was a little superfluous for me so I spent the time thinking about more interesting things and came up with a few questions. JKR leads us to believe that Hogsmeade is the largest wizarding settlement in GB. If that is the case why do we never hear of any Hogwarts pupils who live in Hogsmeade? They could even be day pupils though I don't think that would fit with the Hogwarts world, but you'd think they'd at least go home for w/e's. I am sure Hogsmeade is not populated entirely by adults. It could of course be that JKR hasn't thought about, has thought about it and doesn't think its important or she doesn't think Hogsmeade pupils will add to the plot. From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 2 21:36:52 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:36:52 +0100 Subject: Hogsmeade Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2707 Heather wrote: "JKR leads us to believe that Hogsmeade is the largest wizarding settlement in GB. If that is the case why do we never hear of any Hogwarts pupils who live in Hogsmeade? They could even be day pupils though I don't think that would fit with the Hogwarts world, but you'd think they'd at least go home for w/e's." Hermione says in PoA (Chapter5): "Hogsmeade is the only entirely non-Muggle settlement in Britain." This does not indicate it to be at all large. I think it is there to serve the school (or at least the staff and students who want to get out occasionally). Simon From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 2 21:59:35 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:59:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogsmeade References: Message-ID: <004701c02cbc$0df66820$9b5a893e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 2708 > Hermione says in PoA (Chapter5): "Hogsmeade is the only entirely non-Muggle settlement in Britain." > > This does not indicate it to be at all large. I think it is there to serve > the school (or at least the staff and students who want to get out > occasionally). Point taken. However from the descriptions of the no. of shops etc I would give it the status of a large village as opposed to a town and I still fail to see why it would be populated entirely by adult wizards. Not all of those shopkeepers can have been either single, childless couples or almost retirement age so where are the children. . . . From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 2 22:01:10 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:01:10 +0100 Subject: Hogsmeade and home towns Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2709 Heather wrote: "However from the descriptions of the no. of shops etc I would give it the status of a large village as opposed to a town and I still fail to see why it would be populated entirely by adult wizards. Not all of those shopkeepers can have been either single, childless couples or almost retirement age so where are the children. . . ." We only know where a couple of the students are from. I think we know where Harry, Ron (and the rest of the Weasley's) and Seamus (as descriptive as Ireland) come from. In a school of 300 (for arguments sake I have picked a reasonable number) we only know where a couple of people live so it is entirely possible that some of the students are from Hogsmeade. Harry does not seem to be very interested in finding out such information about people and seemingly (from the point of view of people asking Harry questions) not many others seem to interested either. Simon From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 2 22:15:03 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:15:03 +0100 Subject: Hogsmeade and home towns References: Message-ID: <006101c02cbe$37242d20$9b5a893e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 2710 Simon wrote > Harry does not seem to be very interested in finding out such information > about people and seemingly (from the point of view of people asking Harry > questions) not many others seem to interested either. True. Doesn't stop pedants like me from wondering though especially when bored. Just as I am now comparing the Revised Code of 1862 with the Education Act of 1988. I wonder if JKR knows, she's supposed to have boxes full of notes. Its the kind of detail that fascinates me. Heather From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 20:02:31 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:02:31 +0100 Subject: A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) References: <8qunp7+n472@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <012b01c02cc2$5d2a3a60$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2711 > *This* is also why I'm not a Slytherin sympathizer. I should state on behalf of Slytherin House - they're not all pure-bloodists I don't think. Just the ones who are appear to be most vocal. I accept that Salazar Slytherin had those views, and maybe he had his reasons and wasn't just a bigoted old fool. I also accept that Voldemort was a Slytherin and probably a purebloodist despite his own muggle ancestry. I accept that Slytherin has produced a lot of Dark Arts types, and a lot of Death Eaters to boot. Many of whom will have been less than sympathetic to Muggles and Muggle borns. But I refuse to believe that the whole house is made up of nothing but Muggle haters and Dark Ones. In fact it can't be or the house would have been disbanded. McGonagall actually says at Harry's sorting that each house has produced outstanding witches and wizards. Each house. Not just Gryffindor. Slytherin too. Please bear in mind that the entire series is seen through Harry's eyes. He's only a kid, remember. And owing to inter house rivalries, his own feud with Malfoy, Snape's dislike of him and the fact that Voldy was a Slyth, he's not well disposed towards them. Being only a kid, he's unlikely to see the issue in anything other than black and white terms. So far we've only seen the bad. JKR's not the type to demonise anything, she's more complex than that. I believe we'll see Slytherin virtues before long. Anyway, back to my original point. Slytherin is not all bad and certainly should not be used synonymously with those who hate Muggles. There are Muggle-born Slytherins, you know. Just as there are no doubt pure blood members of other houses who perhaps are not over fond of Muggle-borns... Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 20:23:35 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:23:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Purity of Bloodline References: <8qunp7+n472@eGroups.com> <39D369F6.3E1079A@texas.net> Message-ID: <012c01c02cc2$5e5ffb40$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2712 > Anyway, I have to go feed the munchkins now. By the way, their dad, whose > grandparents came from Poland, is a "pure blooded" Pole, and resents having > to choose "Anglo" as a racial choice when he has no Anglo blood at all. And > just to muck with the census, I listed his and the children's ethnicity as > Polish-American. Ha. Why the kids? After all they're half yours I presume. So unless you're also pure Polish yourself, add yours in too. Really confuse 'em. :) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 20:33:10 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:33:10 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore as Headmaster References: <39D2B4F9.20177728@ibm.net> <39D38F30.72A3778F@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: <012d01c02cc2$5fa80ba0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2713 > Which brings me to a tangentially related question: if those who complete > Hogwarts then become fully qualified wizards, what about those who do not > get into Hogwarts? Is there some other way to achieve qualified status in > the magical world? Clearly there has to be a fairly large subset of > individuals who do not get into Hogwarts (think of Neville's concern that he > might not have been magic enough to get in). People like Tom, who runs the > Leaky Cauldron, Stan from the Knight Bus and Madam Rosemerta. Where and how > do they receive their magical education? Or are their skills innate and > simply honed through a system of practical everyday learning? Well, I got the impression that you're either magic or you're not. If you have any kind of magical ability, you're in so that you can be trained. Hence the variety in exam results. All those auxiliary characters are witches and wizards still, but not quite good enough to do prestigious jobs like teach at Hogwarts or work for the Ministry. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 20:40:10 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:40:10 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Slytherin descendants and logic puzzles References: <8r0qma+6e4l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013001c02cc2$616bb4a0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2714 > Good points, but V. hated his father for abandoning his mother when > he > found out she was a witch. I think V.'s anger stems more from his > father's abandonment than from his father's muggle-ness. If so > wouldn't he try to be a better father than his own? Voldemort?? Are you sure? Voldy has the paternal feelings of a slug! Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 21:27:13 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:27:13 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape the poet (was: logic puzzles...) References: <8r2f4n+4a2d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013301c02cc2$64f48d40$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2715 > Ummm. Actually we have no hint at all that it was SNAPE who wrote > the puzzle/poem - he could have just done the potions - Dumbledore > might have made the puzzle. Insufficient data to state one way or > the other. I'd say Snape did. I get the impression that AD got the staff he wanted together and told them that he needed to protect the Stone and wanted a magical obstacle from each of them then left them to get on with it. I think it's a bit of a disrespect to Snape to say that because it's well-written AD must have done it, when it's simply not in AD's nature to interfere like that. Dumbledore is simply not the type to rush in and do things for anyone else because he thinks they might cock it up - he's the kind who'll trust people to get it right and if they don't, to learn from any mistakes they make. No, I think we have the twisted but oh so talented mind of Severus Snape to thank for that. :) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 21:45:38 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:45:38 +0100 Subject: British cultural differences (was Lupin and physical contact) References: <8r2h89+ambf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013401c02cc2$662bd4c0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2716 > Another example of differing interpretations is peoples attitudes > towards the harshness of Snape and the bullying of Draco. Most of > the Americans seem appalled that this sort of behavior would be > allowed. While that sort of behavior IS certainly appalling, it is > possible that it is simply more acceptable in Britian than in the > U.S. It is certainly the type of behavior commonly depicted in > novels about British boarding schools. Not wishing to be patronising in anyway, but I must state that the overwhelming majority of Brits do not attend private boarding schools, but state-owned day ones. The standard of education varies a lot, but I doubt Draco's bullying, assuming it came to the attention of the teachers, would be tolerated for long in most British schools. He's started fights, persistently used racial abuse and doesn't even have high academic achievement and/or sporting potential to make up for it (it wouldn't save him from getting disciplined, but might make teachers less willing to expel him unless all else failed). Snape, OTOH, would probably be allowed to stay - I've been taught by a fair few Snapes myself before now. As for boarding schools, I can't comment as I never went to one, but the Snape comment holds true, I think. As for Draco, once upon a time, he may have been upheld as a shining example. Now, I'm not so sure. I think his brazen bigotry and support of Voldemort would be too much even for Eton. In fact, thinking about it, even back in the 50's, he'd have been in for it - I can't see any school wanting an open neo-nazi around. Also, there were some posts > from people saying that Hermione should not have been allowed to take > so many classes in PoA, but that attitude seems to reflect a very > American attitude towards education (where we treat kids like idiots, > spoon feed them garbage that they regurgitate on standardized tests, > and then we are shocked when they dont know how to read). Of course > that is an exaggeration, but the traditional British attitude seems > to lean more towards *force them to study themselves to death or > theyll never learn a thing*. Bear in mind that Hermione is an exceptionally bright student. And very bright students often have exceptions made for them. I guess McGonagall thought that Hermione was smart enough to manage it all and should have the chance to learn all she could. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 19:25:36 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:25:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hand of Glory, and James' cloak and key References: <970108284.1573@egroups.com> <39D2B8BB.B73F2360@indy.net> Message-ID: <012801c02cc2$5be3b0a0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2717 > Also, there is no need to assume James Potter *gave* Dumbledore the > Gringott's vault key; again that could have been something found in the > wreck of the house that Dumbledore took for safekeeping. As for the > invisibility cloak, I suspect that James gave that to Dumbledore because > he no longer needed it, having perhaps himself learned the > self-invisibility spell. As far as the cloak goes, it could be that James left a will saying Harry was to get the cloak (and everything else, including the money) but that Dumbledore was to keep it for him until he was older in the event of his and Lily's untimely death. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 22:48:42 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:48:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. References: <8r6fae+ec1u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015101c02cc2$ebf8c2c0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2718 He was told to stay at school during > the holidays. Actually, I think it's not that the Dursleys told him to stay there, it's that Harry vastly preferred spending the holidays at Hogwarts to living with the Dursleys. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 20:57:19 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 21:57:19 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: (OT) Purity of Bloodlines References: <8r1453+jcai@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013101c02cc2$6290aca0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2719 > When all is said and done, I *still* maintain that the validity of > any pure blood theory in HP and in real life is questionable Did anyone here say otherwise? Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 21:15:17 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:15:17 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Borders References: <8r2es9+7np8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013201c02cc2$63cf9540$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2720 Not to be picky or anything, but do you have shares in the company or something?? Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Brooks R To: Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 5:09 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Borders > 1) Borders bookstores ( for those overseas, a major US chain) > has a new 'gift certificate' card, $20 denomination, with the US GoF > cover portion showing Harry's (and Cedric's) faces. > > 2) Borders September flyer also says 'prepay for a Harry Potter 2001 > calendar and get a coupon for 15% off any other 2001 calendar' - not > available online - also not repeated in the October flyer. > > 3) Borders also has entry forms for a 'Create your own World of > Narnia' Art contest, sponsored by HarperCollins Children's Books and > Chick-fil-A, benefitting Boys & Girls Clubs of America, open to > anyone under 18. This is in celebration of the 50th anniversary of > _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe'. > > 4) Finally, at least my bigger local Borders cafe's drink for October > is a 'Pumpkin Smoothie' and the 'Valos coffee of the month' is > 'Pumpkin Spice', for those who thought the Pumpkin drink in the books > was interesting. > > Note - all trademarked names are property of their registered owners. > > -Brooks > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 2 23:10:53 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:10:53 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. References: <8r6fjg+gctt@eGroups.com> <39D6C39D.86B483EB@texas.net> Message-ID: <021801c02cc8$a96c43e0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2721 > That's not what I meant. I meant just what you said, that people respond > differently in the same situation. In the same sense that prisoners who are > tortured still claim they are "free" in their own minds because they have > not given that last bit of their own selfhood away, Harry retains his > perspective and personality, and thus is not a victim. He is the recipient > of abuse, but not a victim. Another person, in the same circumstances, might > have been squashed into the mold and self-image desired, and really been a > victim. It has nothing to do with blame, it's just that there are always two > parties, the abuser and the abused, and the actions of both affect the > outcome. Oh, you're so right! I was getting just a bit sick of Susan saying "Harry is an abused child", making him out to be some sort of damaged, passive victim. He's not! He doesn't see himself as abused, and nor should we. Let me make it loud and clear - IT IS JUST A STORY. THE DURSLEYS ARE FICTIONAL. THEY ARE NOT REAL. For 90% of the books, they aren't even mentioned. If realism was intended, the books would flop within weeks of being published. JKR is not writing on behalf of abuse victims, attempting to make the world aware of their plight, she is writing for the unabused majority, drawing on archetypal mythic themes to make it resonate (ie. the childhood misfit discovering their true nature and benefitting humanity as a result). In fact, if the Dursleys were nice, there'd be too much temptation for Harry to run away from the dangerous wizard world and his destiny of fighting Voldemort, and try to be an ordinary Muggle again. However, the sheer awfulness of his Muggle life means that there's no going back. Like in GoF where he seriously considers leaving Hogwarts and only stops because Hogwarts is the only place where he's ever been happy. Also in PoA where he runs away from the Dursleys - he's not upset because he's leaving his family home, but because he thinks he's been expelled from Hogwarts and will thus never be a proper wizard. Yes, Harry's treatment by the D's qualifies as abusive behaviour. And yes we do take abuse seriously. I'm a trainee counsellor myself. However, we do Harry a great disservice if we see him as an abused child with no power to help himself. He's not powerless, he's a wizard and a good one. He has had traumas in his life, but living with the Dursleys is not one of them. It wasn't the Dursleys voices he heard when faced with Dementors, remember that. The Dursleys are not his real parents and he has always known that, hence I don't think he's ever expected love from them. And if he doesn't expect love from them, then he's not going to be as severely traumatised when he doesn't get it. They don't care about him, and he has never cared about them in the way that he did about his parents. And if you don't care about someone, they have far less power over you than someone you have once deeply loved. That, I think, is why real child abuse is so damaging, it is the ultimate betrayal of trust. If you have never really had that trust, it is not so damaging. Harry comes out of it all so well precisely because the Dursleys never let him down - he didn't expect anything from them. Abuse is a real issue in the real world. It does not appear to be an issue in the Harryverse. I have enough of issues like abuse, drugs, rape, violence in the real world, I definitely do not want it intruding into one of my escape routes. Leave your work at the door, please. Rant over. Jinx From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 2 23:53:56 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:53:56 -0000 Subject: A NEW ENDING FOR BOOK 2 Message-ID: <8rb76k+ipgn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2722 A NEW ENDING FOR BOOK 2 ANNOUNCER: Dark Wizard Tom Riddle is suing student Harry Potter over the loss of a snake and a diary. Mr. Potter is counter suing for harassment. BAILIFF: Order in the court, all rise. Your honor this is case number 198 on the calendar in the matter of Riddle versus Potter. The parties have been sworn in Judge. JUDGE JUDY: Thank you Burt. BAILIFF: You may be seated. JUDGE JUDY: Ok we'll start with you Mr. Riddle, tell me what happened. RIDDLE: Thank you your honor but I prefer to go by the name Lord Voldemort. JUDGE JUDY: Lord Voldemort, what kind of name is that, did you have it legally changed? RIDDLE: Yes I think so. JUDGE JUDY: You think so? Let me see your wallet, come on, bring it up here. [pause] Mr. Riddle, your library card, drivers license, and credit cards to Starbucks and "Bed Bath and Beyond" are all in the name of Tom Riddle, if that is no longer your legal name then these cards all invalid. So I'll just destroy them shall I? RIDDLE: NO! JUDGE JUDY: Ok, I'm glad we got that cleared up, but don't lie to me again, I'm very smart. [handing the wallet back to Riddle] If you want your friends to call you Lord Voldemort that's your business, but legally you're Tom Riddle. Continue, tell me what happened. RIDDLE: Well the defendant, Mr Potter he JUDGE JUDY: Mr. Riddle get your hands out of your pockets and stand up straight, is that gum you're chewing, get rid of it. You're in a court of law now you're not at the beach. RIDDLE: Yes, sorry your honor, ah, there is this place called the Chamber of Secrets that was built by a wizard named Slytherin and I am the only descendent of Slytherin so the place is mine and JUDGE JUDY: Hold on a minute, Mr. Potter do you dispute any of this so far? POTTER: No your honor, he is the Heir of Slytherin. JUDGE JUDY: Ok, continue. RIDDLE: Well Mr. Potter was trespassing, I never invited him into my chamber, and he killed my pet snake for no reason. POTTER: You're lying, that snake nearly killed me! RIDDLE: No you're lying! JUDGE JUDY: Talk to me not each other. Mr. Potter you acknowledge that you killed the snake but claim self defense, is that correct? POTTER: Yes, it bit me on the arm really bad, I thought I was going to die. JUDGE JUDY: Show me the wound. Potter: Ah, actually there is no wound. JUDGE JUDY: Why not? POTTER: Well there was a wound but then a Phoenix swept down, that's sort of a large beautiful magical bird that bursts into flames and is reborn from the ashes, anyway it landed on my knee and started to cry, and the bird's tears fell on the wound [pause] and then it sort of healed it [pause] it healed the wound somehow, [pause] it gave me a silver sword and a hat too [pause] it really did [pause] so that's what happened, [pause] really [pause] and that's all. [long uncomfortable silence in the courtroom] JUDGE JUDY: Mr. Potter look at me, go ahead look at me, is the word "stupid" written on my forehead? POTTER: What? JUDGE JUDY: Is The Word "Stupid" Written On My Forehead? POTTER: No. JUDGE JUDY: Correct, it is not! That's the silliest story I ever heard. POTTER: It's true. JUDGE JUDY: Baloney! What were you doing wandering around uninvited on another person's property anyway? POTTER : I was trying to rescue Ginny Weasley, the plaintiff kidnapped her. JUDGE JUDY: Stop shaking your head Mr. Riddle. Mr. Potter why isn't Ginny Weasley in my courtroom? POTTER: She wanted to be but unfortunately her Defense Against The Dark Arts final exam is today, but she did write a letter confirming all JUDGE JUDY: A letter is not a witness and is not admissible to a court of law. Mr. Riddle, how much was the snake worth? RIDDLE: He was priceless, there were only three in the entire world that JUDGE JUDY: Priceless is not an answer, I need a figure, I can't give you a priceless settlement. RIDDLE: I do have a bill of sale but JUDGE JUDY: Let me see it. [pause] According to this the snake was bought for only 5 galleons. RIDDLE: Yes but that was a long time ago, it was just a baby smaller than my finger, it was worth far more than that by the time it was killed by the defendant. And technically it was not even a snake it was a basilisk. JUDGE JUDY: Whatever. Do you have an estimate of its worth from an expert in exotic animals? RIDDLE: Yes your honor I do but I forgot to bring it, it's at home. JUDGE JUDY: And I'll bet the dog ate your homework too. Mr. Riddle that estimate does me no good if it's at home. When you come to court you need to come prepared and you don't get points for being dumb. Now what's this about a diary? RIDDLE: The defendant destroyed this very important diary. JUDGE JUDY: Let me see. [pause] Yuck! You've got to be kidding me, even before it was damaged this thing was dime store quality, my court does not deal in trivialities. RIDDLE: It's not the book itself it's the content of the diary that was valuable. JUDGE JUDY: Did you have a copyright on the contents? RIDDLE: I believe it is copyrighted but not by me, you see there is this lady In England who JUDGE JUDY: If you don't own the copyright you can't collect damages for the destruction of RIDDLE: But your honor JUDGE JUDY: I AM SPEAKING! You can tell I'm speaking when you see my lips move and you don't interrupt when I am speaking. Now if this English person chooses to sue Mr. Potter I'd be willing to reconsider the matter but it's irrelevant in this case. Mr. Potter you're counter suing Mr. Riddle for harassment, what's that about? Potter: He killed my parents, he makes my scar hurt, he killed Neville's parents, he RIDDLE: Neville's parents aren't dead they're just Potter: They might as well be, they're JUDGE JUDY: QUIET! I don't want to hear any more of this childish bickering about who killed who and why. Grow up, both of you. [pause] Now Mr. Potter, this alleged incident with your parents happened more than 10 years ago, why are you suing now? Potter: I don't know, I guess because he's suing me. JUDGE JUDY: That's what I thought, Mr. Potter the law says that if you're going to sue somebody you must do so in a timely manner and 10 years is not timely. And I'm very sorry your injury hurts you from time to time but how is that his fault? Potter: He makes it hurt, I don't know how but he does. JUDGE JUDY: Do you have any proof? Potter: Not exactly. JUDGE JUDY: I've heard enough. Judgement for the plaintiff in the amount of 5 galleons, your counter suite is dismissed. That's all. THE END And be sure to read the other exciting books in the series: Harry Potter And The Nuisance Lawsuits Harry Potter And The Provisional Feasibility Study Harry Potter And The Environmental Impact Statement Harry Potter And The Individual Tax 1040 Long Form From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 3 00:05:36 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 00:05:36 -0000 Subject: A NEW ENDING FOR BOOK 2 In-Reply-To: <8rb76k+ipgn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rb7sg+t6is@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2723 ROTFLMAO!!!! Well, Judge Judy is "the boss, applesauce". I don't think Tom Riddle/Voldemort would be able to last two minutes in her courtroom. lol From find_sam at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 01:24:03 2000 From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:24:03 -0000 Subject: Lupin and a cure for Lycanthropy In-Reply-To: <8rapkh+nheh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rbcfj+jjvo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2724 > in CoS Riddle saying that Hagrid used to raise > werewolf cubs under his bed and in PS/SS Ron saying that there are > wild werewolves in the Forbidden Forest Perhaps 'raising werewolf cubs under the bed' is just an expression used in the wizarding world. Werewolves are usually thought to be a menace (unfairly in the case of Our Remus) and raising werewolf cubs under the bed would probably be a very silly thing to do - much like Hagrid raising (or attempting to raise) Norbert in PS/SS. It makes sense that Hagrid might have been experimenting with all manner of dreadful creatures in his youth. Just because Tom Riddle says something does not mean it's true - this is the boy who grew up to be the villainous Voldemort! From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 01:41:58 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:41:58 -0000 Subject: (OT) Purity of Bloodlines In-Reply-To: <013101c02cc2$6290aca0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rbdh6+ptj5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2725 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > > When all is said and done, I *still* maintain that the validity of > > any pure blood theory in HP and in real life is questionable > > Did anyone here say otherwise? > > Jinx Re-read the thread. :0) There are layers of discourse within any given conversation: what is said, what is implied, and what is actually communicated to another person. BTW, we're continuing the tangent via private e-mail, since some of the dialogue was getting a bit off topic. I did my part to contribute to this, so... --Ebony From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 3 01:46:48 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:46:48 -0000 Subject: Hand of Glory, and James' cloak and key In-Reply-To: <012801c02cc2$5be3b0a0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rbdq8+8rnk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2726 According to the note with the cloak in PS/SS, it said that James gave the left the cloak with the anonymous giver (Dumbledore). --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > > Also, there is no need to assume James Potter *gave* Dumbledore the > > Gringott's vault key; again that could have been something found in the > > wreck of the house that Dumbledore took for safekeeping. As for the > > invisibility cloak, I suspect that James gave that to Dumbledore because > > he no longer needed it, having perhaps himself learned the > > self-invisibility spell. > > As far as the cloak goes, it could be that James left a will saying Harry > was to get the cloak (and everything else, including the money) but that > Dumbledore was to keep it for him until he was older in the event of his and > Lily's untimely death. > > Jinx From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 01:47:42 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:47:42 -0000 Subject: A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) In-Reply-To: <012b01c02cc2$5d2a3a60$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rbdru+jcms@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2727 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > JKR's not the type to demonise anything, she's more complex > than that. I believe we'll see Slytherin virtues before long. I totally agree with you. :-) > > Anyway, back to my original point. Slytherin is not all bad and certainly > should not be used synonymously with those who hate Muggles. There are > Muggle-born Slytherins, you know. Just as there are no doubt pure blood > members of other houses who perhaps are not over fond of Muggle- borns... Perhaps half-Muggle (like Voldemort). However, I think that the premise of the argument between the Founding Four was that Salazar Slytherin wanted only pure blooded wizards to be educated at Hogwarts. Refer to CoS. Now, no one's saying that there was *never* a Slytherin with two Muggle parents. We just haven't met one yet. The whole thread of "how much Muggle lineage can you have and still be considered pureblood" is an interesting one, and one I'm pursuing in the FAQ. --Ebony From lj2d30 at gateway.net Tue Oct 3 01:48:39 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 01:48:39 -0000 Subject: Hermione (was World cup seating) In-Reply-To: <003501c02ca1$cfef57e0$7f8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rbdto+k0fq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2728 "even Our Hermie. BTW interesting factoid for you. Apparently Hermione is derived from the Greek meaning "daughter of Hermes" Not to mention one of Santa's elves is named "Hermie" who wants to be a dentist rather than help the Jolly Old Elf make toys...(And Hermione's folks are both dentists) Sorry, I couldn't resist... Trina (who has watched "Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer" far too many times) From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 3 01:54:03 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:54:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lupin and werewolf's References: Message-ID: <39D93C3A.1F2D201F@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2729 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Blaise wrote: "So the transformation cannot be triggered by moonlight, but > by the rising of the full moon. And the moon was long since risen when > Remus transformed. So there's a plot hole, and it's been driving me nuts!" > > One possibility is that he transforms automatically on the night of the full > moon, no matter if he is inside or anything else is blocking out the > moonlight. If it is close to the full moon then being in moonlight triggers > the transformation. > > The first point explains why he had to go to the shack, when he was a child, > in the first place. On the night of the full moon he would transform into 'a > monster'. > The night in the Shrieking Shack is then explained by it being an example of > the second of my points above. I am not sure, and have not checked, but I > believe that we are not told that the night in question is a full moon. > Maybe the potion that Snape has been giving him makes some kind of difference? During the critical time in PoA, Lupin has gotten only part of the full course of potion doses he was supposed to get. The effect of the potion that Lupin does mention is that it allows him to keep his mind during transformation--but perhaps it also lessens the transformation itself, so that he only changes if he is in direct moonlight? (This is, as you can imagine, really just a wild guess, and I imagine it's not fooling anyone.) Peg From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Oct 3 02:19:37 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:19:37 -0000 Subject: Lupin and a cure for Lycanthropy In-Reply-To: <8rapkh+nheh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rbfnp+ke64@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2730 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Blaise " wrote: > She [JKR] has several werewolf plot holes (which have been driving me crazy > for months!), like the fact that it seems she has two different types > of werewolves (c.f. in CoS Riddle saying that Hagrid used to raise > werewolf cubs under his bed and in PS/SS Ron saying that there are > wild werewolves in the Forbidden Forest), and Lupin's transformation > in PoA where he only changes shape when the moon comes out from > behind the cloud, which is very strange. I'm a Lupin fan too, Blaise. He's the model of what a teacher and mentor should be. He is also allegorical for discrimination of many kinds, unfairly an outcast. You might have put your finger on the answer when you said "it seems she has two different types of werewolves..." Maybe there actually *are* several types and variations. Maybe there's different degrees of lycanthropy. Lupin would actually be a milder form, only transforming at the full moon and keeping his humanity most of the time. Worse cases are wolves all the time or most of the time and live in places like the Forbidden Forest. The last stage may be breeding werewolf cubs. Perhaps this is the progression Lupin has to look forward to (awful thought). All this is, of course, total and utter speculation without any backup whatsoever, but it does fit what little we have observed. There's a good chance it just is a small plot hole. I'll definitely read that fanfic. From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Oct 3 02:26:35 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:26:35 -0000 Subject: Hogsmeade In-Reply-To: <004701c02cbc$0df66820$9b5a893e@default> Message-ID: <8rbg4r+5q3k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2731 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Heather Edmonds" wrote: > > Hermione says in PoA (Chapter5): "Hogsmeade is the only entirely > non-Muggle settlement in Britain." > > > > This does not indicate it to be at all large. I think it is there to serve > > the school (or at least the staff and students who want to get out > > occasionally). > > Point taken. However from the descriptions of the no. of shops etc I would > give it the status of a large village as opposed to a town and I still fail > to see why it would be populated entirely by adult wizards. Not all of those > shopkeepers can have been either single, childless couples or almost > retirement age so where are the children. . . . It's definitely a problem. There are lots of problems about population in general and wizarding society. There's been a controversy here about how many students there are at Hogwarts and what it implies for the wizarding population of the UK. It appears to some people that the wizarding birthrate has to be very low. But back to Hogsmeade. There's no reason at all that there aren't families there, with children, who need to be educated. The answer just might be this: this series is about Harry's life, not about wizard society, and JKR has to condense a year of Harry's life into a few hundred pages. She has to leave out more than she puts in. IOW, there might well be students from Hogsmeade and we just don't hear about it. It's not a critical detail. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 02:23:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:23:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Purity of Bloodline References: <8qunp7+n472@eGroups.com> <39D369F6.3E1079A@texas.net> <012c01c02cc2$5e5ffb40$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39D94336.A881501E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2732 Jinx wrote: > > just to muck with the census, I listed his and the children's ethnicity as > > Polish-American. Ha. > > Why the kids? After all they're half yours I presume. So unless you're > also pure Polish yourself, add yours in too. Really confuse 'em. :) Because I'm a fifth-generation Texan, and the Powers That Be do not extend diplomatic recognition to the Republic. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 02:29:29 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:29:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogsmeade References: <004701c02cbc$0df66820$9b5a893e@default> Message-ID: <39D94489.456F0243@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2733 Heather Edmonds wrote:Point taken. However from the descriptions of the no. of shops etc I would > give it the status of a large village as opposed to a town and I still fail > to see why it would be populated entirely by adult wizards. Not all of those > shopkeepers can have been either single, childless couples or almost > retirement age so where are the children. . . . There may be quite a few natives of Hogsmeade at the school. We aren't told where most of them come from. It simply may not be relevant to the story line. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 02:36:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:36:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A NEW ENDING FOR BOOK 2 References: <8rb76k+ipgn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D94617.D18FAC9D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2734 Eggplant, you have just justified your existence on this planet! Thank you, from someone else who watches too much Judge Judy. You should print this out and send it to JKR. --Amanda eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > A NEW ENDING FOR BOOK 2 > > ANNOUNCER: Dark Wizard Tom Riddle is suing student Harry Potter over > the loss of a snake and a diary. Mr. Potter is counter suing for > harassment. > > BAILIFF: Order in the court, all rise. Your honor this is case number > 198 on the calendar in the matter of Riddle versus Potter. The > parties have been sworn in Judge. > > JUDGE JUDY: Thank you Burt. > > BAILIFF: You may be seated. > > JUDGE JUDY: Ok we'll start with you Mr. Riddle, tell me what happened. > > RIDDLE: Thank you your honor but I prefer to go by the name Lord > Voldemort. > > JUDGE JUDY: Lord Voldemort, what kind of name is that, did you have > it legally changed? > > RIDDLE: Yes I think so. > > JUDGE JUDY: You think so? Let me see your wallet, come on, bring it > up here. [pause] Mr. Riddle, your library card, drivers license, and > credit cards to Starbucks and "Bed Bath and Beyond" are all in the > name of Tom Riddle, if that is no longer your legal name then these > cards all invalid. So I'll just destroy them shall I? > > RIDDLE: NO! > > JUDGE JUDY: Ok, I'm glad we got that cleared up, but don't lie to me > again, I'm very smart. [handing the wallet back to Riddle] If you > want your friends to call you Lord Voldemort that's your business, > but legally you're Tom Riddle. Continue, tell me what happened. > > RIDDLE: Well the defendant, Mr Potter he > > JUDGE JUDY: Mr. Riddle get your hands out of your pockets and stand > up straight, is that gum you're chewing, get rid of it. You're in a > court of law now you're not at the beach. > > RIDDLE: Yes, sorry your honor, ah, there is this place called the > Chamber of Secrets that was built by a wizard named Slytherin and I > am the only descendent of Slytherin so the place is mine and > > JUDGE JUDY: Hold on a minute, Mr. Potter do you dispute any of this > so far? > > POTTER: No your honor, he is the Heir of Slytherin. > > JUDGE JUDY: Ok, continue. > > RIDDLE: Well Mr. Potter was trespassing, I never invited him into my > chamber, and he killed my pet snake for no reason. > > POTTER: You're lying, that snake nearly killed me! > > RIDDLE: No you're lying! > > JUDGE JUDY: Talk to me not each other. Mr. Potter you acknowledge > that you killed the snake but claim self defense, is that correct? > > POTTER: Yes, it bit me on the arm really bad, I thought I was going > to die. > > JUDGE JUDY: Show me the wound. > > Potter: Ah, actually there is no wound. > > JUDGE JUDY: Why not? > > POTTER: Well there was a wound but then a Phoenix swept down, that's > sort of a large beautiful magical bird that bursts into flames and is > reborn from the ashes, anyway it landed on my knee and started to > cry, and the bird's tears fell on the wound [pause] and then it sort > of healed it [pause] it healed the wound somehow, [pause] it gave me > a silver sword and a hat too [pause] it really did [pause] so that's > what happened, [pause] really [pause] and that's all. > > [long uncomfortable silence in the courtroom] > > JUDGE JUDY: Mr. Potter look at me, go ahead look at me, is the > word "stupid" written on my forehead? > > POTTER: What? > > JUDGE JUDY: Is The Word "Stupid" Written On My Forehead? > > POTTER: No. > > JUDGE JUDY: Correct, it is not! That's the silliest story I ever > heard. > > POTTER: It's true. > > JUDGE JUDY: Baloney! What were you doing wandering around uninvited > on another person's property anyway? > > POTTER : I was trying to rescue Ginny Weasley, the plaintiff > kidnapped her. > > JUDGE JUDY: Stop shaking your head Mr. Riddle. Mr. Potter why isn't > Ginny Weasley in my courtroom? > > POTTER: She wanted to be but unfortunately her Defense Against The > Dark Arts final exam is today, but she did write a letter confirming > all > > JUDGE JUDY: A letter is not a witness and is not admissible to a > court of law. Mr. Riddle, how much was the snake worth? > > RIDDLE: He was priceless, there were only three in the entire world > that > > JUDGE JUDY: Priceless is not an answer, I need a figure, I can't give > you a priceless settlement. > > RIDDLE: I do have a bill of sale but > > JUDGE JUDY: Let me see it. [pause] According to this the snake was > bought for only 5 galleons. > > RIDDLE: Yes but that was a long time ago, it was just a baby smaller > than my finger, it was worth far more than that by the time it was > killed by the defendant. And technically it was not even a snake it > was a basilisk. > > JUDGE JUDY: Whatever. Do you have an estimate of its worth from an > expert in exotic animals? > > RIDDLE: Yes your honor I do but I forgot to bring it, it's at home. > > JUDGE JUDY: And I'll bet the dog ate your homework too. Mr. Riddle > that estimate does me no good if it's at home. When you come to court > you need to come prepared and you don't get points for being dumb. > Now what's this about a diary? > > RIDDLE: The defendant destroyed this very important diary. > > JUDGE JUDY: Let me see. [pause] Yuck! You've got to be kidding me, > even before it was damaged this thing was dime store quality, my > court does not deal in trivialities. > > RIDDLE: It's not the book itself it's the content of the diary that > was valuable. > > JUDGE JUDY: Did you have a copyright on the contents? > > RIDDLE: I believe it is copyrighted but not by me, you see there is > this lady In England who > > JUDGE JUDY: If you don't own the copyright you can't collect damages > for the destruction of > > RIDDLE: But your honor > > JUDGE JUDY: I AM SPEAKING! You can tell I'm speaking when you see my > lips move and you don't interrupt when I am speaking. Now if this > English person chooses to sue Mr. Potter I'd be willing to reconsider > the matter but it's irrelevant in this case. Mr. Potter you're > counter suing Mr. Riddle for harassment, what's that about? > > Potter: He killed my parents, he makes my scar hurt, he killed > Neville's parents, he > > RIDDLE: Neville's parents aren't dead they're just > > Potter: They might as well be, they're > > JUDGE JUDY: QUIET! I don't want to hear any more of this childish > bickering about who killed who and why. Grow up, both of you. [pause] > Now Mr. Potter, this alleged incident with your parents happened more > than 10 years ago, why are you suing now? > > Potter: I don't know, I guess because he's suing me. > > JUDGE JUDY: That's what I thought, Mr. Potter the law says that if > you're going to sue somebody you must do so in a timely manner and 10 > years is not timely. And I'm very sorry your injury hurts you from > time to time but how is that his fault? > > Potter: He makes it hurt, I don't know how but he does. > > JUDGE JUDY: Do you have any proof? > > Potter: Not exactly. > > JUDGE JUDY: I've heard enough. Judgement for the plaintiff in the > amount of 5 galleons, your counter suite is dismissed. That's all. > > THE END > > And be sure to read the other exciting books in the series: > > Harry Potter And The Nuisance Lawsuits > Harry Potter And The Provisional Feasibility Study > Harry Potter And The Environmental Impact Statement > Harry Potter And The Individual Tax 1040 Long Form > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Oct 3 02:42:09 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:42:09 -0000 Subject: Lily a Slytherin? (was Sorting) In-Reply-To: <8qmfqb+p97r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rbh21+pla0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2735 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > The idea that Lily could be a closet Death Eater upsets me -- it's > almost like other HP lists where people say "oh, wouldn't it be cool > if Harry turned to the dark side." > > In some ways, how effective an author is depends on how much we > invest in her or his universe -- and I am very invested in the HP > universe. > > In that universe, death eaters are evil. They torture and kill the > innocent. Can you imagine coming home to find Voldemort's sign above > your house and go in to find your family dead? That's evil. Lily, who > sacrificed herself for her son, is not evil. The idea that bad is *bad* is an important theme for JKR (she has said so). She says she owed it to her readers to show them what the bad people were truly like. Young people get these ideas of the bad guys being cool from pop culture. The bad guy always has the best lines and the coolest gear. It starts with pale monsters in Scooby-Doo and progresses to Disney villains. (I recently saw Little Mermaid II and was bothered by the villainess for that reason). Many people have no concept of what bad really is. How cool would these people think Slobodan Milosevic is? I am terrified by how people who think Lily or Dumbledore could be evil must see the world. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 02:56:50 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:56:50 -0500 Subject: Flamel References: <8ra2o0+rg4v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D94AF2.7E0EFF7A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2736 I think Nicolas Flamel was thrown in for historical texture. I know from my association with a boyfriend who was into medieval alchemy (via having an alchemist persona in a historical recreation group) that Flamel is a historical personage, the only alchemist who's supposed to have actually created the Stone (which, for you detail-oriented sorts out there, wasn't a stone, but some sort of liquid, I believe. I think it's a code thing that it's called a stone; the alchemical texts are very hard to study, even today, because they were written in very obscure code terms that are not all understood). Anyway, there's real students of alchemy today who swear Flamel is still alive. But I doubt he shows up again in the "Harryverse" (nice coinage, whoever did it--I forget). --Amanda From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 03:01:46 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 03:01:46 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2737 "Oh, you're so right! I was getting just a bit sick of Susan saying "Harry is an abused child", making him out to be some sort of damaged, passive victim. He's not! He doesn't see himself as abused, and nor should we." hey, settle down Jinx, its not just Susan saying that we can think about this aspect of Harry's life. I don't think that susan is "making" harry out to be anything - just considering the effect that that sort of behaviour would have. the fact that Harry doesn't seem himself as abused is neither here nor there - children rarely if ever identify the behiour of thier carers as abusive. "Let me make it loud and clear - IT IS JUST A STORY. THE DURSLEYS ARE FICTIONAL. THEY ARE NOT REAL." What do you mean it's not real? I don't understand? "Yes, Harry's treatment by the D's qualifies as abusive behaviour. And yes we do take abuse seriously. I'm a trainee counsellor myself. However, we do Harry a great disservice if we see him as an abused child with no power to help himself. He's not powerless, he's a wizard and a good one." obviously it is a dis-service not to see the strenghs in any person who has lived through abuse. But equally it is a dis-service to minimise or completely ignore the truma that has occoured to that same person because they may have certain strenghs. "He has had traumas in his life, but living with the Dursleys is not one of them." Hallo? have you been locked in a cupboard until the middle of the summer holidays? (for example) and how can Harry's treatment by the durelsy be abusive behvaiour but not be a trauma? "It wasn't the Dursleys voices he heard when faced with Dementors, remember that. The Dursleys are not his real parents and he has always known that, hence I don't think he's ever expected love from them." All children expect love, its only adults who are able to be able to be rational. the worst trauma in your life is not the only truama "And if he doesn't expect love from them, then he's not going to be as severely traumatised when he doesn't get it. They don't care about him, and he has never cared about them in the way that he did about his parents. And if you don't care about someone, they have far less power over you than someone you have once deeply loved. That, I think, is why real child abuse is so damaging, it is the ultimate betrayal of trust. If you have never really had that trust, it is not so damaging." that is of course true for abuse in the RL, but in RL (since you are baseing your argrument there) the leval of trust is related to dependance. 15 month old babies are dependant upon thier carers for everything. It is at this stage that love/dependance starts. 10 yo kids are pretty dependant too. "Harry comes out of it all so well precisely because the Dursleys never let him down - he didn't expect anything from them. Abuse is a real issue in the real world. It does not appear to be an issue in the Harryverse. I have enough of issues like abuse, drugs, rape, violence in the real world, I definitely do not want it intruding into one of my escape routes. Leave your work at the door, please." Jinx - the wonder (for me) of JKR's books is her ability to deal with abuse and racism and classism and violence and dealth and unfairness and what is right in RL (honour and what you make of the clay you get) in a context that makes it palitable, even enjoyable. When we acknowledge the abuse that Harry lives through we just provide oursleves with another reason for him being such an excellant hero Rant over. No worries Mate, storm Jinx ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jinx" Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:10:53 +0100 > That's not what I meant. I meant just what you said, that people respond > differently in the same situation. In the same sense that prisoners who are > tortured still claim they are "free" in their own minds because they have > not given that last bit of their own selfhood away, Harry retains his > perspective and personality, and thus is not a victim. He is the recipient > of abuse, but not a victim. Another person, in the same circumstances, might > have been squashed into the mold and self-image desired, and really been a > victim. It has nothing to do with blame, it's just that there are always two > parties, the abuser and the abused, and the actions of both affect the > outcome. Oh, you're so right! I was getting just a bit sick of Susan saying "Harry is an abused child", making him out to be some sort of damaged, passive victim. He's not! He doesn't see himself as abused, and nor should we. Let me make it loud and clear - IT IS JUST A STORY. THE DURSLEYS ARE FICTIONAL. THEY ARE NOT REAL. For 90% of the books, they aren't even mentioned. If realism was intended, the books would flop within weeks of being published. JKR is not writing on behalf of abuse victims, attempting to make the world aware of their plight, she is writing for the unabused majority, drawing on archetypal mythic themes to make it resonate (ie. the childhood misfit discovering their true nature and benefitting humanity as a result). In fact, if the Dursleys were nice, there'd be too much temptation for Harry to run away from the dangerous wizard world and his destiny of fighting Voldemort, and try to be an ordinary Muggle again. However, the sheer awfulness of his Muggle life means that there's no going back. Like in GoF where he seriously considers leaving Hogwarts and only stops because Hogwarts is the only place where he's ever been happy. Also in PoA where he runs away from the Dursleys - he's not upset because he's leaving his family home, but because he thinks he's been expelled from Hogwarts and will thus never be a proper wizard. Yes, Harry's treatment by the D's qualifies as abusive behaviour. And yes we do take abuse seriously. I'm a trainee counsellor myself. However, we do Harry a great disservice if we see him as an abused child with no power to help himself. He's not powerless, he's a wizard and a good one. He has had traumas in his life, but living with the Dursleys is not one of them. It wasn't the Dursleys voices he heard when faced with Dementors, remember that. The Dursleys are not his real parents and he has always known that, hence I don't think he's ever expected love from them. And if he doesn't expect love from them, then he's not going to be as severely traumatised when he doesn't get it. They don't care about him, and he has never cared about them in the way that he did about his parents. And if you don't care about someone, they have far less power over you than someone you have once deeply loved. That, I think, is why real child abuse is so damaging, it is the ultimate betrayal of trust. If you have never really had that trust, it is not so damaging. Harry comes out of it all so well precisely because the Dursleys never let him down - he didn't expect anything from them. Abuse is a real issue in the real world. It does not appear to be an issue in the Harryverse. I have enough of issues like abuse, drugs, rape, violence in the real world, I definitely do not want it intruding into one of my escape routes. Leave your work at the door, please. Rant over. Jinx _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 03:03:12 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:03:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) References: <8qunp7+n472@eGroups.com> <012b01c02cc2$5d2a3a60$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39D94C70.92090044@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2738 Jinx wrote: > But I refuse to believe that the whole house is > made up of nothing but Muggle haters and Dark Ones. In fact it can't be or > the house would have been disbanded. McGonagall actually says at Harry's > sorting that each house has produced outstanding witches and wizards. Each > house. Not just Gryffindor. Slytherin too. And again, only *some* of the Slytherins refused to stand and toast Harry at the end of book 4. Thus, clearly, some of them did. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 03:04:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:04:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. References: <8r6fae+ec1u@eGroups.com> <015101c02cc2$ebf8c2c0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39D94C9F.8E2A91A5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2739 Jinx wrote: > He was told to stay at school during > > the holidays. > > Actually, I think it's not that the Dursleys told him to stay there, it's > that Harry vastly preferred spending the holidays at Hogwarts to living with > the Dursleys. Well, one time they did tell him to see if he could stay; I don't remember which book, but I can look it up if you want. --Amanda From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 03:11:50 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 03:11:50 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogsmeade Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2740 Jim said - It's not a critical detail. every detail is critical! I want to know everthing :-) storn _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 03:12:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:12:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogsmeade References: Message-ID: <39D94E89.66582FD3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2741 Snuffles Macgoo wrote: > every detail is critical! I agree. I'm an editor. Sooooo.....you spelled your name wrong. > storn Sorry, can't help it, don't throw anything --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 3 03:30:41 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 03:30:41 -0000 Subject: Rickman as Snape In-Reply-To: <8radgf+b2fa@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rbjt1+7qk5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2742 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eliasberg at i... wrote: > Susan, > > I think you should watch Die Hard, Rickman is perfect as Snape. > As for the abused child syndrome, you should try to remember > that it is a book, a fantasy book, that was trying to make a point > that no matter how bad it gets there is hope at the end of the > tunnel. You should watch JKRs interviews and she talks about > Harry's treatment and why he is treated as poorly as he is. > Perhaps you should shelve the credentials and listen to what > Dumbledore says, " it is the decisions we make that make us > who we are". Actually, Dumbledore says "choices" not decision. I may reconsider about Rickman. Should, should, should...I don't do well with shoulds.. I have listened to JKRs interviews. My credentials reflect my real life experience with kids. Abused kids are a subject that I feel passionately about. No child should ever be treated the way Harry was treated. You have the right to feel passionately about whatever, but Perhaps you should shelve the shoulds. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 3 03:42:07 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 03:42:07 -0000 Subject: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. In-Reply-To: <015101c02cc2$ebf8c2c0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rbkif+5ijv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2743 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > He was told to stay at school during > > the holidays. > > Actually, I think it's not that the Dursleys told him to stay there, it's > that Harry vastly preferred spending the holidays at Hogwarts to living with > the Dursleys. > > Jinx Yes, Harry chose to stay during the holidays. But in one of the books (I could look it up if you'd like)...Harry was sent the message...."see if you could stay there for the summer, too." Susan From SHENmagic at aol.com Tue Oct 3 03:55:50 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:55:50 EDT Subject: >Subject: Re: A NEW ENDING FOR BOOK 2 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2744 >Subject: Re: A NEW ENDING FOR BOOK 2 L0L- > From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 3 03:56:35 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 03:56:35 -0000 Subject: Abuse, Hermione and the triad, triumvirate. In-Reply-To: <021801c02cc8$a96c43e0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rbldj+5b9p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2745 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > > That's not what I meant. I meant just what you said, that people respond > > differently in the same situation. In the same sense that prisoners who > are > > tortured still claim they are "free" in their own minds because they have > > not given that last bit of their own selfhood away, Harry retains his > > perspective and personality, and thus is not a victim. He is the recipient > > of abuse, but not a victim. Another person, in the same circumstances, > might > > have been squashed into the mold and self-image desired, and really been a > > victim. It has nothing to do with blame, it's just that there are always > two > > parties, the abuser and the abused, and the actions of both affect the > > outcome. > > Oh, you're so right! I was getting just a bit sick of Susan saying "Harry > is an abused child", making him out to be some sort of damaged, passive > victim. He's not! He doesn't see himself as abused, and nor should we. <<<>>> > > Let me make it loud and clear - IT IS JUST A STORY. THE DURSLEYS ARE > FICTIONAL. THEY ARE NOT REAL. For 90% of the books, they aren't even > mentioned. If realism was intended, the books would flop within weeks of > being published. JKR is not writing on behalf of abuse victims, attempting > to make the world aware of their plight, she is writing for the unabused > majority, drawing on archetypal mythic themes to make it resonate (ie. the > childhood misfit discovering their true nature and benefitting humanity as a > result). In fact, if the Dursleys were nice, there'd be too much temptation > for Harry to run away from the dangerous wizard world and his destiny of > fighting Voldemort, and try to be an ordinary Muggle again. However, the > sheer awfulness of his Muggle life means that there's no going back. Like > in GoF where he seriously considers leaving Hogwarts and only stops because > Hogwarts is the only place where he's ever been happy. Also in PoA where he > runs away from the Dursleys - he's not upset because he's leaving his family > home, but because he thinks he's been expelled from Hogwarts and will thus > never be a proper wizard. I of course don't know whether JKR was writing on behalf of anyone. What is your source for this information. > > Yes, Harry's treatment by the D's qualifies as abusive behaviour. And yes > we do take abuse seriously. I'm a trainee counsellor myself. <<<>>> However, we > do Harry a great disservice if we see him as an abused child with no power > to help h imself. He's not powerless, he's a wizard and a good one. <<>>> He ha > had traumas in his life, but living with the Dursleys is not one of them. <<<>> > It wasn't the Dursleys voices he heard when faced with Dementors, remember > that. The Dursleys are not his real parents and he has always known that, > hence I don't think he's ever expected love from them. And if he doesn't > expect love from them, then he's not going to be as severely traumatised > when he doesn't get it. They don't care about him, and he has never cared > about them in the way that he did about his parents. And if you don't care > about someone, they have far less power over you than someone you have once > deeply loved. That, I think, is why real child abuse is so damaging, it is > the ultimate betrayal of trust. If you have never really had that trust, it > is not so damaging. Harry comes out of it all so well precisely because the > Dursleys never let him down - he didn't expect anything from them. > > Abuse is a real issue in the real world. It does not appear to be an issue > in the Harryverse. I have enough of issues like abuse, drugs, rape, > violence in the real world, I definitely do not want it intruding into one > of my escape routes. Leave your work at the door, please. Well, I can't leave my work at the door, because like Dumbledore and Harry, I'm fighting injustice, cruelty and wrongdoing. You know, I think that Harry being abused by the Dursley is part and parcel of the saga, it's an important part of who Harry is, it's just as important to discuss as whether Hermione and Harry will ever become involved, etc. If you don't like my posts, I would suggest you don't read them. Susan > > Rant over. > > > Jinx From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 3 04:39:34 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:39:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) References: <8qunp7+n472@eGroups.com> <012b01c02cc2$5d2a3a60$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <004d01c02cf3$ee675b80$4dc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2746 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jinx" To: Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:02 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) > > > *This* is also why I'm not a Slytherin sympathizer. > > > Please bear in mind that the entire series is seen through Harry's eyes. > He's only a kid, remember. And owing to inter house rivalries, his own feud > with Malfoy, Snape's dislike of him and the fact that Voldy was a Slyth, > he's not well disposed towards them But even Harry is aware that the Sorting Hat first pointed him to Slytherin. - CMC From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 3 04:38:52 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 04:38:52 -0000 Subject: Hogsmeade In-Reply-To: <8rbg4r+5q3k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rbnss+juvk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2747 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Heather Edmonds" > wrote: > > > Hermione says in PoA (Chapter5): "Hogsmeade is the only entirely > > non-Muggle settlement in Britain." > > > > > > This does not indicate it to be at all large. I think it is there > to serve > > > the school (or at least the staff and students who want to get out > > > occasionally). > > > > Point taken. However from the descriptions of the no. of shops etc > I > would > > give it the status of a large village as opposed to a town and I > still fail > > to see why it would be populated entirely by adult wizards. Not > But back to Hogsmeade. There's no reason at all that there aren't > families there, with children, who need to be educated. The answer > just might be this: this series is about Harry's life, not about > wizard society, and JKR has to condense a year of Harry's life into a > few hundred pages. She has to leave out more than she puts in. IOW, > there might well be students from Hogsmeade and we just don't hear > about it. It's not a critical detail. I think this is absolutely right. We don't hear about other Wizard/Witch academies until the Goblet of Fire when we hear about Beauxbatons, Sturmdrang. I think there ARE other educational opportunities for wizards/witches and that only some U.K. wizard/witches get sent to Hogswart. Others go to community colleges, rather than the university. Or they go to Muggle schools to learn Muggle stuff, and take courses about magic on the side. Who knows? this may or may not be something JKR decides to write about Susan From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Oct 3 04:40:31 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 04:40:31 -0000 Subject: Casting; Imelda Staunton & Misc. In-Reply-To: <39d897b5.6d8c.0@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <8rbnvv+48if@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2748 > > I agree that Rosie O'Donnell would be bad casting, but I > don't see Pauline Collins as Mrs Weasley either. > Personally, I think Imelda Staunton is perfect...and she > has red hair, too! > > Alix There's now a picture of Imelda Staunton posted at: Files / Cast Photos / Members' Suggestions Unfortunately, it's rather small. Pauline Collins, age 60, is way too old to play Mrs Weasley. "Shirley Valentine" was made over 12 years ago! Imelda's current age (44) is about right. A picture of Robbie Coltrane in full costume has been posted in the Cast Photos area. It was apparently taken with a telephoto lens during recent shooting. I found it on an HP website and cropped, enlarged, and sharpened it somewhat. Does anybody have the inside scoop on what settings will be used for Hogwarts? Originally it was supposed to be Gloucester Cathedral, but now I hear that they are actually filming at Durham! -Jim Flanagan From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 3 04:54:41 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:54:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] book 4... something troubles me... References: <8r93te+m96h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005c01c02cf6$0b0aad80$4dc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2749 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Odile Alburquerque" To: Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 11:45 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] book 4... something troubles me... Okay, now there is a piece of the puzzle in book 4 that troubles me. If you all recall to chapter 36, page 696, 1st paragraph (hardcover), Harry is back to Hogwarts, back from the conforatation with Voldemort, and is explaining his experience to Dumbledore. When Harry mentions how Voldemort no longer felt pain when he touched Harry's face. Right there, in the 2nd paragraph, it says, "For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure he imagined it." what is this supposed to mean? Are we going to find out in book 5, 6 or 7 that Dumbledore is actually evil?? If Dumbldore be false, o, then heaven mocks itself (1) We've learned in Book Three,Chapter 22 about some of the mysterious bonds that are formed when one Wizard saves another's life - the specific example was Harry and Peter Pettigrew, but this would also apply to Harry and Voldy (Harry's blood was needed to restore Voldy to corporeal form) (2) In Book Four, Chapter One, Wormtail (aka Pettigrew) suggests that the blood of any Wizard would do to restore Voldy to his body; with typical bad-guy arrogance, Voldy concedes the point, but insists that it has to be Harry: "I have my reasons for using the boy....and I will use no other." (3) In Book 4, Chap. 32, Voldy has used Harry to restore himself, but fails to finish him off. A mere 14-year-old staves off an all-out attack from the most powerful Dark Wizard since Slytherin. An inextricable link has been created between Harry and Voldy, and has not Voldy has left himself vulnerable to a counterattack from Dumbledore & Co? - CMC From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 04:49:38 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 04:49:38 -0000 Subject: book 4... something troubles me... In-Reply-To: <8r93te+m96h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rboh2+qeuj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2750 "Odile Alburquerque" Wrote: >"For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of > somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, > Harry was sure he imagined it " what is this supposed to mean? It means for a spit second Dumbledore is delighted because he knows Voldemort can be killed but an instant later is horrified when he realizes it would mean death for Harry too. From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 3 04:56:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 04:56:59 -0000 Subject: book 4... something troubles me... In-Reply-To: <005c01c02cf6$0b0aad80$4dc54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8rbour+84st@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2751 > > (3) In Book 4, Chap. 32, Voldy has used Harry to restore himself, but fails to finish him off. A mere 14-year-old staves off an all- out attack from the most powerful Dark Wizard since Slytherin. An inextricable link has been > created between Harry and Voldy, and has not Voldy has left himself > vulnerable to a counterattack from Dumbledore & Co? > > - CMC This is an excellent point and I believe close to the mark. Remember that Voldemort goes on and on about how his followers lost faith in him when he was unable to kill Harry Potter (the boy who lived, and therefore he was going to demonstrate his power by killing HP at the end of Book IV. He tells the Death Eaters not to interfere and tells them to give HP back his wand. Then he loses. This is very significant. Susan From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Oct 3 05:57:26 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:57:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book 4... something troubles me... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2752 >It means for a spit second Dumbledore is delighted because he knows >Voldemort can be killed but an instant later is horrified when he >realizes it would mean death for Harry too. > You know I hate to be a nitpicker, but you really should preface your own opinions and thoughts with a qualifier like "I think" or "I believe" or "It's my opinion that" or "it's possible that." You continually present your theories as incontrovertible fact, and someone who was new might think you obtained this information from some unimpeachable source and that it's the truth. It's been bugging me a little bit. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Made for Taster's Choice" Summers Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one's out to get you. Last movie seen: "American Beauty" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "Animal Dreams" by Barbara Kingsolver *************************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Oct 3 05:18:50 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 06:18:50 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001003051850.0088094c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 2753 'Ello. I've been locked in a cupboard under the stairs for the last two weeks, devoid of magical assistance and with only three bats and an electricity meter for company. Thankfully, I remembered an ancient lock-breaking mantra and managed to get out... It looks like you've been having some deep discussions, but since I haven't read most of the several megazillion messages posted, I'll stick to a safe topic for now... 'Hey, has anyone noticed that gleam in Dumbledore's eye?' [only kidding]. No, I'll enter the shallow end of the discussion, with a brief comment on casting... Milz said: I keep arguing with a friend of mine that Trevor Eve ("Mr. Murdstone" in "David Copperfield") would make a decent Lucius Malfoy. I can't see Trevor Eve as Malfoy, but how about Charles Dance? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Oct 3 06:24:39 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 01:24:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2754 >I can't see Trevor Eve as Malfoy, but how about Charles Dance? > >Neil > Oh I adore Charles Dance, but he's too rough-looking and a tad too old. Lucius needs to have that delicate rich guy look. Peter Davison? I really wish they could fit Tony Slattery in there somewhere. And Sylvester McCoy. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Made for Taster's Choice" Summers Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean no one's out to get you. Last movie seen: "American Beauty" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "Animal Dreams" by Barbara Kingsolver *************************************************** From monika at darwin.inka.de Tue Oct 3 08:59:37 2000 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:59:37 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: New "Cast" photos up in the Files section. In-Reply-To: <8ra0v3+bjq4@eGroups.com> References: <8r90ar+fq54@eGroups.com> <8ra0v3+bjq4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9f5jtssn6snte865uvkbnqe4um81gcl65e@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2755 On Mon, 02 Oct 2000 13:01:23 -0000, "Whisper" whisper2ascream13 at yahoo.com wrote: >Checked the files for other names mentioned. I still Maggie Smith, >wonderful actress that she is, is too old for McGonagall. I thought >the good Professor was merely in her forties? Or is that being kind? I also thought she was too old, but in PoA McGonagall remembers the Marauders at school. If she was a teacher at Hogwarts at that time, I assume that she must be at least 20 years older than Sirius and Lupin (who I think must be in their late thirties), which means she must be around 60. Greetings, Monika -- Books and Movies http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 3 09:55:47 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:55:47 +0100 Subject: Casting and movie settings, Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2756 Jim wrote: "A picture of Robbie Coltrane in full costume has been posted in the Cast Photos area. It was apparently taken with a telephoto lens during recent shooting. I found it on an HP website and cropped, enlarged, and sharpened it somewhat." I have heard the rumour that Robbie has yet to attend filming and that at the moment there is a body double standing in for him. From what I have been told this double lives up to that billing (i.e. he looks very much like Coltrane). I do not know if this is true or if it has been confirmed - as with all rumours really" Jim wrote: "Does anybody have the inside scoop on what settings will be used for Hogwarts? Originally it was supposed to be Gloucester Cathedral, but now I hear that they are actually filming at Durham!" More stuff from the rumour mill! Apparently some filming will be taking place in Oxford. Particularly outside my college. There is a bridge (that connects two buildings together and spans a road) that is quite famous. It gets used in lots of films and TV programmes. I have posted a picture into the movie setting section (in fact I have posted two - called bridge.jpg and sighs.jpg). Susan wrote: "I think this is absolutely right. We don't hear about other Wizard/Witch academies until the Goblet of Fire when we hear about Beauxbatons, Sturmdrang. I think there ARE other educational opportunities for wizards/witches and that only some U.K. wizard/witches get sent to Hogswart. Others go to community colleges, rather than the university. Or they go to Muggle schools to learn Muggle stuff, and take courses about magic on the side." In an interview with Simon Mayo, BBC radio 1, JKR said that there was only one Wizarding School in the UK and Ireland. More details in Yahoo message 4666 and 4667. URL's: http://www.egroups.com/message/HPforGrownups-Archives/4666 and http://www.egroups.com/message/HPforGrownups-Archives/4667 Simon From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 3 10:50:55 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:50:55 -0000 Subject: Casting and movie settings, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rcdmf+k4os@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2757 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > In an interview with Simon Mayo, BBC radio 1, JKR said that there was only > one Wizarding School in the UK and Ireland. She could be wrong about that of course .... Pam From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 3 12:27:31 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (r d) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 05:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius Message-ID: <20001003122731.23755.qmail@web1501.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2758 Hi, I am new, but I have been lurking...I just wanted to say that I think that Peter Davison would make a great Lucius Malfoy. Elizabeth --- summers.65 at osu.edu wrote: > > >I can't see Trevor Eve as Malfoy, but how about > Charles Dance? > > > >Neil > > > Oh I adore Charles Dance, but he's too rough-looking > and a tad too old. > Lucius needs to have that delicate rich guy look. > Peter Davison? > > I really wish they could fit Tony Slattery in there > somewhere. And > Sylvester McCoy. > > Lori > > > ************************************************** > Lori "Made for Taster's Choice" Summers > > Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean > no one's out to get you. > > Last movie seen: "American Beauty" > Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys > Current book: "Animal Dreams" by Barbara Kingsolver > *************************************************** > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Oct 3 12:53:33 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 12:53:33 -0000 Subject: Casting Lucius Malfoy -- WHO? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rcksd+4rll@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2759 > I really wish they could fit Tony Slattery in there somewhere. And > Sylvester McCoy. > > Lori McCoy might be OK for Fudge. How about Paul McGann (the 8th Doctor) as Lucius Malfoy? See Files / Cast Photos / Members' Suggestions / McGann7.jpg . - Jim Flanagan From brooksar at indy.net Tue Oct 3 13:25:51 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 08:25:51 -0500 Subject: Flamel References: <970550243.11070@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39D9DE60.2DA1F3ED@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2760 > I think Nicolas Flamel was thrown in for historical texture. I know from > my association with a boyfriend who was into medieval alchemy (via having > an alchemist persona in a historical recreation group) that Flamel is a > historical personage, the only alchemist who's supposed to have actually > created the Stone (which, for you detail-oriented sorts out there, wasn't > a stone, but some sort of liquid, I believe. In reverse order - also possibly a powder, see that interesting URL about Flamel that was published here a few days ago (Sorry, don't have it on hand filed it too deeply). However, one of the German alchemists is also credited in some texts with possessing the Philosopher's stone..... -Brooks From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 14:02:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:02:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) References: <8qunp7+n472@eGroups.com> <012b01c02cc2$5d2a3a60$968e7ed4@johnmitt> <004d01c02cf3$ee675b80$4dc54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39D9E6EF.6862176D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2761 Caius Marcius wrote: > But even Harry is aware that the Sorting Hat first pointed him to Slytherin. Or did it? I know Harry thinks so, and JKR has gone to great lengths to have *us* think so, but he's the one who brought it up first, thinking, "Not Slytherin!" The hat was responding, and simply said he'd have done well there. That he could be great. If Harry had truly been of Slytherin bent, wouldn't he have then thought, "Yeah!" or something? And thus prompted the hat to choose Slytherin. Gryffindor was a true placement, not a second choice. The dialogue with Harry was part of what the hat took into consideration for a valid sorting; I don't think it really ever wanted him in Slytherin at all. Probably---presumably---the hat has similar dialogues with all its wearers. And we've had several posts about how most of the characters exhibit some or all of the prominent characteristics of the Houses. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 14:03:22 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:03:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book 4... something troubles me... References: <8rboh2+qeuj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39D9E72A.42F577B9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2762 eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > >"For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of > > somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, > > Harry was sure he imagined it" what is this supposed to mean? > > It means for a spit second Dumbledore is delighted because he knows > Voldemort can be killed but an instant later is horrified when he > realizes it would mean death for Harry too. Oh, well put. And probably exactly correct. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 14:11:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:11:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Flamel References: <970550243.11070@egroups.com> <39D9DE60.2DA1F3ED@indy.net> Message-ID: <39D9E8FB.B7F15C94@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2763 "Brooks A. Rowlett" wrote: > In reverse order - also possibly a powder, see that interesting URL > about Flamel that was published here a few days ago (Sorry, don't have > it on hand filed it too deeply). However, one of the German alchemists > is also credited in some texts with possessing the Philosopher's stone..... Hi, it was me that posted the message with the URL, from the aforementioned former boyfriend; here's the relevant bit if you need it. Nicholas Flamel was (is?) a famous Alchemist. He and his wife Perrenelle supposedly worked out how to create the Philosopher's Stone from a book he came into possession of. What is known with certainty is that despite having a mundane job as a bookseller, he suddenly became very rich, giving away lots of gold to found orphanages (many of which still exist today) and help the poor and needy. Legend says that he and is wife faked their deaths, and remain forever young to this day. (See: http://www.alchemylab.com/flamel.htm) --Amanda, trivia repository and short-order cook From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 3 15:07:17 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:07:17 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons Message-ID: <8rcsn5+mgp5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2764 I just got an email from the person who made the Al Gore/Harry Potter buttons telling me that I can order some directly from him. If you want one, please email me TODAY (i.e. before noon on wednesday, US time) - they will be 3.50$US each, including shipping charges, in the US - overseas orders will be slightly higher, depending on the cost of actually sending it. From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 15:11:09 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:11:09 -0000 Subject: I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rcsud+e2uo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2765 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, summers.65 at o... wrote: > > >I can't see Trevor Eve as Malfoy, but how about Charles Dance? > Oh I adore Charles Dance, but he's too rough-looking and a tad too old. > Lucius needs to have that delicate rich guy look. Peter Davison? > > I really wish they could fit Tony Slattery in there somewhere. And > Sylvester McCoy. > Ahhh, Charles Dance. Once referred to as "the thinking woman's crumpet." Peter Davison just looks too ... nice. I always picture Lucius as having a perpetual disdainful look on his face. McCoy as Fudge -- yeah, that would work. Tony Slattery -- yeah, but as who? Maybe Quirrel? Tho' he'd also make a fun Peeves, with the correct SFX. ht From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Oct 3 15:22:58 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 3 Oct 2000 08:22:58 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius Message-ID: <20001003152258.28170.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2766 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 3 15:27:13 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:27:13 -0000 Subject: I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001003051850.0088094c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8rctsh+jecr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2767 I can see Charles Dance as Lucius Malfoy, but I agree with whoever said he was a little, er...."mature" for the part. Peter Davison? No way, IMO, 'cause I remember him mainly as Tristan on "All Creatures Great and Small" and as one of the Dr. Who's. My reason for Trevor Eve is mainly based on his Murdstone portrayal and that series "The Heat of the Sun" (although he was a "good-guy" in that one). As for James Potter, I think Philip Bretherton (Alastair on "As Time Goes By") would be suitable...but he's a bit too old for the role too. I can't remember who played Grant on "East Enders" but maybe he would make a good MacNair the Executioner? Or maybe Robson Green? --Milz (an American who enjoys British TV a little too much) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > 'Ello. I've been locked in a cupboard under the stairs for the last two > weeks, devoid of magical assistance and with only three bats and an > electricity meter for company. Thankfully, I remembered an ancient > lock-breaking mantra and managed to get out... > > It looks like you've been having some deep discussions, but since I haven't > read most of the several megazillion messages posted, I'll stick to a safe > topic for now... 'Hey, has anyone noticed that gleam in Dumbledore's eye?' > [only kidding]. > > No, I'll enter the shallow end of the discussion, with a brief comment on > casting... > > Milz said: > > I keep arguing with a friend of mine that Trevor Eve ("Mr. Murdstone" > in "David Copperfield") would make a decent Lucius Malfoy. > > I can't see Trevor Eve as Malfoy, but how about Charles Dance? > > Neil > > > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > ***************************************** > > "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, > the car rumbled off into the darkness, > its rear lights blazing angrily" > > [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] > > ***************************************** From lrcjestes at msn.com Tue Oct 3 15:30:08 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (Carole Estes) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:30:08 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c02d4e$cfeba5c0$a46a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 2768 > > Oh I adore Charles Dance, but he's too rough-looking and a tad too old. > Lucius needs to have that delicate rich guy look. Peter Davison? I do adore him too. Have you seen him in the Masterpiece theater production of "A Jewel in the Crown" He has the rich guy look in that one, but then that was done quite awhile ago....haven't seen how old he looks lately, but its my impression that Lucius is older than the maurauders...don't know where I got that impression...but there it is. carole From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 3 15:49:53 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:49:53 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <8rcsn5+mgp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rcv71+2s1n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2769 There's Al Gore/ Harry Potter Buttons??? Is there anyplace on the Net I can see them? -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > I just got an email from the person who made the Al Gore/Harry Potter > buttons telling me that I can order some directly from him. > If you want one, please email me TODAY (i.e. before noon on > wednesday, US time) - they will be 3.50$US each, including shipping > charges, in the US - overseas orders will be slightly higher, > depending on the cost of actually sending it. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 3 16:17:59 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:17:59 -0000 Subject: Wizards of the Coast Jobs Message-ID: <8rd0rn+e6t1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2770 I was surfing the Hasbro site, looking for things for the merchandise faq, which I am writing, and I discovered some job opportunities at Wizards of the Coast, the Hasbro arm which is producing the Harry Potter Trading Cards - if you want to see more, check out http://www.wizards.com/jobs/position.asp?job0918b (Promotions Coordinator - Harry Potter in Renton, Washington) From linsenma at hic.net Tue Oct 3 16:27:48 2000 From: linsenma at hic.net (linsenma at hic.net) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:27:48 -0000 Subject: Checking In Message-ID: <8rd1e4+bt35@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2771 Hi -- Just caught up on a bezillion emails posted to this list during my absence. I'm not officially home until tomorrow but I wanted to throw out a few things very quickly (before the Ann Arbor Public Library kicks me off this computer. ListMom things to follow -- 1. OPINIONS SHOULD BE CLEARLY STATED: Lori was absolutely correct. If you're going to hypothesize or theorize about possible endings or what ambiguous points in the books might mean, for gosh darn's sake -- please put "In my opinion, it means . . . " or "I think the following is a plausible ending for Book 7" or "Here's what I think will be the opening scene for Book 5," etc. 2. SUBJECT HEADINGS -- a familiar rant from me but please try to remember to keep your subject headings relevant. Having just waded through some 250+ emails from this group, it's a fresh concern for me. 3. NEWBIES: Sorry that Melanie & I have *still* not gotten together a formal intro letter to this group (high on my list of things to do when I return). Anyway . . . please refer to the Netiquette & Club Rules section on this group's homepage (link on the egroups homepage for this group). 4. NEIL -- welcome back, however briefly. Please join in again soon. Ok - being kicked off -- more when I return! Penny From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 3 16:42:23 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:42:23 -0000 Subject: posters Message-ID: <8rd29f+jrei@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2772 I popped into Barnes & Noble yesterday & bought a Hogwarts Crest poster - pretty cool! They also had drawings of a Mirror of Erised poster (where James & Lily looked MAYBE 22 years old - at least 4 years too young, imho) and a Harry, Hagrid & Griphook in Gringots poster, but they weren't selling them. They also had a pretty disturbing poster - you can see it, and some of the other posters (and buy them) at http://www.wbstore.com/store/wbss.product.list.asp? category=1126&m=WSS003&mscssid=JVF7UL1263S92P4600A3HET506VRDNM5 Am I the only one who thinks that selling Voldemort products is a Really Bad Idea, unless, of course, you're a Malfoy? From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 3 17:41:17 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 17:41:17 -0000 Subject: Wizard U; was Casting and movie settings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rd5nt+q2gq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2773 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" > > Susan wrote: "I think this is absolutely right. We don't hear about other > Wizard/Witch academies until the Goblet of Fire when we hear about > Beauxbatons, Sturmdrang. I think there ARE other educational opportunities > for wizards/witches and that only some U.K. wizard/witches get sent to > Hogswart. Others go to community colleges, rather than the university. Or > they go to Muggle schools to learn Muggle stuff, and take courses about > magic on the side." > > In an interview with Simon Mayo, BBC radio 1, JKR said that there was only > one Wizarding School in the UK and Ireland JKR also said in an interview (possibly the same one) that there are no Wizard Universities. -- Joywitch From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 3 18:36:17 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:36:17 -0000 Subject: JK Rowling Chat on AOL Message-ID: <8rd8v1+jp77@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2774 Thursday, October 19, 2000, at 8:00 pm EST (which I think is the same day she's having lunch with the scholastic contest winners in NYC) on AOL at Keyword: LIVE any questions? From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Oct 3 18:47:24 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:47:24 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting Suggestions References: <8rcksd+4rll@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00c801c02d6a$ad690c60$670b073e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 2775 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Flanagan To: Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 1:53 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting Lucius Malfoy -- WHO? > > > I really wish they could fit Tony Slattery in there somewhere. And > > Sylvester McCoy. > > > > Lori > > McCoy might be OK for Fudge. How about Paul McGann (the 8th Doctor) > as Lucius Malfoy? Hehehe - actually, I saw Sylvester McCoy as Flitwick (I know Flitwick is small, I wasn't sure how small), although with the magic of the movies, he'd probably make a really good Dobby, too. Paul McGann - Gilderoy Lockhart? My personal vote for Dumbledore is Michael Gambon -- anyone else think he was just amazing in Wives and Daughters? -- I think he could pull off the wisdom and the whimsy of Dumbledore to perfection. Alix From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 3 19:07:59 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:07:59 -0000 Subject: posters In-Reply-To: <8rd29f+jrei@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rdaqf+i5lp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2776 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" < heidi.h.tandy.c92 at a...> wrote: > > Am I the only one who thinks that selling Voldemort products is a > Really Bad Idea, unless, of course, you're a Malfoy? You think Voldie's getting a royalty? Pippin From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 3 20:07:38 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:07:38 -0000 Subject: Who goes to Hogwarts...(was Re: Dumbledore as Headmaster) In-Reply-To: <012d01c02cc2$5fa80ba0$968e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rdeaa+43oa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2777 Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think that we've seen enough evidence either way. I mean that if we believe we've seen most of the wizard world already then mostly all wizards work at- -The MoM -Gringotts -Shop keepers -Other Basically it seems that "if you're anybody" in the wizard world you must work at the ministry of Magic, and I don't buy that. I think that there are more jobs than we've seen, probaly because they aren't important to the plot. Scott >>>>Clearly there has to be a fairly large subset of individuals who do not get into Hogwarts (think of Neville's concern that he might not have been magic enough to get in). People like Tom, who runs the Leaky Cauldron, Stan from the Knight Bus and Madam Rosemerta. Where and how do they receive their magical education? Or are their skills innate and simply honed through a system of practical everyday learning? > >Well, I got the impression that you're either magic or you're not. If you have any kind of magical ability, you're in so that you can be trained. Hence the variety in exam results. All those auxiliary characters are witches and wizards still, but not quite good enough to do prestigious jobs like teach at Hogwarts or work for the Ministry. > > Jinx From lj2d30 at gateway.net Tue Oct 3 20:34:08 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:34:08 -0000 Subject: I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius In-Reply-To: <8rctsh+jecr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rdfs0+jjok@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2778 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: "> As for James Potter, I think Philip Bretherton (Alastair on "As Time Goes By") would be suitable...but he's a bit too old for the role too. > I see Philip Bretherton as Lockhart more than James, but since he's not in Book 1, casting him is a bit premature. As is casting Lucius Malfoy since we don't meet him until CoS. But to toss in my 2 knuts I think Julian Sand would be a great Daddy Malfoy. Trina From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Oct 3 20:44:10 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:44:10 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <8rcsn5+mgp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001003134346.02141a50@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2779 At 03:07 PM 10/3/00 +0000, heidi tandy wrote: >I just got an email from the person who made the Al Gore/Harry Potter >buttons telling me that I can order some directly from him. >If you want one, please email me TODAY (i.e. before noon on >wednesday, US time) - they will be 3.50$US each, including shipping >charges, in the US - overseas orders will be slightly higher, >depending on the cost of actually sending it. Is there a site we can go to to see what they look like? -- Dave From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 21:01:42 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:01:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] al gore/harry potter buttons References: <8rcsn5+mgp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DA4936.C95292C6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2780 Sorry, what are these buttons? --Amanda heidi tandy wrote: > I just got an email from the person who made the Al Gore/Harry Potter > buttons telling me that I can order some directly from him. > If you want one, please email me TODAY (i.e. before noon on > wednesday, US time) - they will be 3.50$US each, including shipping > charges, in the US - overseas orders will be slightly higher, > depending on the cost of actually sending it. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 21:08:10 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:08:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] posters References: <8rd29f+jrei@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DA4ABA.1A4DBC4F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2781 heidi tandy wrote: > Am I the only one who thinks that selling Voldemort products is a > Really Bad Idea, unless, of course, you're a Malfoy? Well, it certainly isn't going to help their case with the religious opposition, but then again, they may have taken the (accurate) view that nothing will, so why not.... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 3 21:12:16 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:12:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JK Rowling Chat on AOL References: <8rd8v1+jp77@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DA4BB0.960D6293@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2782 I've never understood AOL keywords, not being an AOL person; can non-AOL people access this? And how? --Amanda the ignorant heidi tandy wrote: > Thursday, October 19, 2000, at 8:00 pm EST (which I think is the same > day she's having lunch with the scholastic contest winners in NYC) on > AOL at Keyword: LIVE > > any questions? > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Tue Oct 3 21:28:33 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 21:28:33 -0000 Subject: posters In-Reply-To: <8rd29f+jrei@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rdj21+78d7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2783 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > Am I the only one who thinks that selling Voldemort products is a > Really Bad Idea, unless, of course, you're a Malfoy? Oh, I don't know... I'm thinking of getting my Mom a Voldemort t- shirt. It'll go well with her "She Who Must Be Obeyed" coffee mug. (Yes, she's a Potterhead. She just borrowed my US copy of GoF.) ht From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 3 22:17:18 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:17:18 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JK Rowling Chat on AOL References: <8rd8v1+jp77@eGroups.com> <39DA4BB0.960D6293@texas.net> Message-ID: <39DA5AEE.CA25DA58@the-beach.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2784 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I've never understood AOL keywords, not being an AOL person; can non-AOL > people access this? And how? No, I don't think so, unfortunately, but the entire transcript is usually available afterwards so I'm sure someone will post it somewhere. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 3 22:49:56 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:49:56 -0400 Subject: barnes & noble harry potter store References: <8o77ct+lhrq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DA6294.F19A9D22@the-beach.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2785 On sneak preview now - you can preorder things like the calendar & bookends at http://wwwaol.barnesandnoble.com/gift/kids/harry_potter/index.asp?userid=468SN60CCJ&sourceid=0000000FAM From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 3 22:54:54 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:54:54 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JK Rowling Chat on AOL References: <8rd8v1+jp77@eGroups.com> <39DA4BB0.960D6293@texas.net> <39DA5AEE.CA25DA58@the-beach.net> Message-ID: <39DA63BE.9C50A8AA@the-beach.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2786 Question/COrrection on AOL, it says TUESDAY the 19th of October - but isn't the 19th a thursday & the tuesday is the 17th? Can anyone find out the truth from AOL before we all reschedule our days? From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 4 01:25:22 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:25:22 -0000 Subject: Casting - who? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001003051850.0088094c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8re0u2+l91q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2787 Who might play Bill Weasley (if we ever get that far)? From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 4 01:47:27 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:47:27 -0000 Subject: I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius In-Reply-To: <8rdfs0+jjok@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8re27f+8k7q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2788 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > "> As for James Potter, I think Philip Bretherton (Alastair on "As > Time Goes By") would be suitable...but he's a bit too old for the > role too. > > > > I see Philip Bretherton as Lockhart more than James, but since he's > not in Book 1, casting him is a bit premature. As is casting Lucius > Malfoy since we don't meet him until CoS. But to toss in my 2 knuts I > think Julian Sand would be a great Daddy Malfoy. > > Trina I was thinking Nigel Havers for Lockhart, but again, the age issue takes hold :-( From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 4 01:52:11 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:52:11 -0000 Subject: posters In-Reply-To: <8rdj21+78d7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8re2gb+ljtq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2789 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ht " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" > wrote: > > Am I the only one who thinks that selling Voldemort products is a > > Really Bad Idea, unless, of course, you're a Malfoy? > No. I agree with you. But there are those who will buy them, so I suppose they are inevitable. I don't particularly like ANY of the posters....the other three are too busy...my favorite is the Muggles for Harry Potter poster......available on the MfHP web site....it's happily ensconced on my back door so that everyone who visits sees it first thing... Susan From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 3 23:50:13 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:50:13 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast Message-ID: <200010040157.e941vCo19406@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 2790 Julie Walters is a pleasant >> surprise, but *please* not Rosie as Mrs. Weasley!! *Everyone* needs >> to be British, and there's only one who's right for Molly -- Pauline >> Collins!! >> (And real-life hubby John Alderton as Arthur!) I see Mrs. Hoggett from "Babe" as Mrs. Weaseley. I pictured her fro the time I first read Book 1. Kathy From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 4 01:57:22 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:57:22 -0000 Subject: Bill Weasley (Re: Casting - who?) In-Reply-To: <8re0u2+l91q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8re2q2+nh2d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2791 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Who might play Bill Weasley (if we ever get that far)? My choice is Julian Rhind-Tutt. http://www.geocities.com/julesrt/ From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Wed Oct 4 03:19:27 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 03:19:27 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2792 --Original Message Follows---- From: Kathleen Kelly MacMillan Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Fwd: The Cast Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:50:13 -0400 Julie Walters is a pleasant >> surprise, but *please* not Rosie as Mrs. Weasley!! *Everyone* needs >> to be British, and there's only one who's right for Molly -- Pauline >> Collins!! >> (And real-life hubby John Alderton as Arthur!) I see Mrs. Hoggett from "Babe" as Mrs. Weaseley. I pictured her fro the time I first read Book 1. Kathy Magda Savanski (sp?) is a Aust actor dunno what she's like at accents storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 4 03:28:43 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 22:28:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] al gore/harry potter buttons References: <8rcsn5+mgp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003601c02db3$334798e0$8dc44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2793 ----- Original Message ----- From: "heidi tandy" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:07 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] al gore/harry potter buttons > I just got an email from the person who made the Al Gore/Harry Potter > buttons Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? - CMC From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Wed Oct 4 03:36:08 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 03:36:08 -0000 Subject: book 4... something troubles me... In-Reply-To: <005c01c02cf6$0b0aad80$4dc54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8re8j8+q5r8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2794 i thought his reasons for using the boy had been explained in book 4, if i didnt imagine it, which is a possibility with me when i give things too much thought. but wait, no, i think it becomes clearer: didnt he (Voldemort) say that his reasons for using Harry's blood was so that everyone would see that although he was unable to kill Harry, he would be able not only to take his blood and restore himself, but kill him with his blood flowing in his veins? hmmm. odile --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Odile Alburquerque" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 11:45 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] book 4... something troubles me... > > > Okay, now there is a piece of the puzzle in book 4 that troubles me. > If you all recall to chapter 36, page 696, 1st paragraph (hardcover), > Harry is back to Hogwarts, back from the conforatation with > Voldemort, and is explaining his experience to Dumbledore. > > When Harry mentions how Voldemort no longer felt pain when he > touched Harry's face. Right there, in the 2nd paragraph, it > says, "For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of > somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, > Harry was sure he imagined it." what is this supposed to mean? > Are we > going to find out in book 5, 6 or 7 that Dumbledore is actually evil?? > > > If Dumbldore be false, o, then heaven mocks itself > > > (1) We've learned in Book Three,Chapter 22 about some of the mysterious > bonds that are formed when one Wizard saves another's life - the specific > example was Harry and Peter Pettigrew, but this would also apply to Harry > and Voldy (Harry's blood was needed to restore Voldy to corporeal form) > > (2) In Book Four, Chapter One, Wormtail (aka Pettigrew) suggests that the > blood of any Wizard would do to restore Voldy to his body; with typical > bad-guy arrogance, Voldy concedes the point, but insists that it has to be > Harry: "I have my reasons for using the boy....and I will use no other." > > (3) In Book 4, Chap. 32, Voldy has used Harry to restore himself, but fails > to finish him off. A mere 14-year-old staves off an all-out attack from the > most powerful Dark Wizard since Slytherin. An inextricable link has been > created between Harry and Voldy, and has not Voldy has left himself > vulnerable to a counterattack from Dumbledore & Co? > > - CMC From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Wed Oct 4 03:44:40 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 03:44:40 -0000 Subject: I'm out of the cupboard/Re: Casting Lucius In-Reply-To: <8rdfs0+jjok@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8re938+4itr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2795 i agree, i think julian sands would make a PERFECT lucius. :-) odile --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > "> As for James Potter, I think Philip Bretherton (Alastair on "As > Time Goes By") would be suitable...but he's a bit too old for the > role too. > > > > I see Philip Bretherton as Lockhart more than James, but since he's > not in Book 1, casting him is a bit premature. As is casting Lucius > Malfoy since we don't meet him until CoS. But to toss in my 2 knuts I > think Julian Sand would be a great Daddy Malfoy. > > Trina From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Wed Oct 4 03:45:41 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 03:45:41 -0000 Subject: book 4... something troubles me... In-Reply-To: <8rboh2+qeuj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8re955+jq4d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2796 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > "Odile Alburquerque" Wrote: > > >"For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of > > somewhat like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, > > Harry was sure he imagined it " what is this supposed to mean? > > It means for a spit second Dumbledore is delighted because he knows > Voldemort can be killed but an instant later is horrified when he > realizes it would mean death for Harry too. but, then wouldn't he have said something like, "Excellent," or whatever, i mean, these two sentences are like when in a movie, one fleetling action just doesn't fit: a part when you ask yourself, 'Why did he/she do that?' -odile From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Oct 4 04:16:00 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 04:16:00 -0000 Subject: Confirmation--JK Rowling Chat on AOL In-Reply-To: <39DA63BE.9C50A8AA@the-beach.net> Message-ID: <8reau0+8sou@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2797 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > Question/COrrection > on AOL, it says TUESDAY the 19th of October - but isn't the 19th a thursday & > the tuesday is the 17th? > > Can anyone find out the truth from AOL before we all reschedule our days? Hi Heidi and all: Here's what AOL Live has to say verbatim-- J.K. Rowling--Thursday, October 19 at 8:00 p.m. EST Chat live with Harry Potter? Almost! AOL Live is pleased to present a live chat with "Potter" creator J.K. Rowling. Her magical series about the saucy, young wizard-in-training is a worldwide publishing phenomenon. Chat with her about the latest opus, "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire", ask about what's next for our young hero, and talk about the recently cast "Harry" movie. ------ Observations: 1) Don't subscribe to AOL just to get the chat. There are enough of us here that can forward/post transcripts. I'm not sure about legalities, but I'm sure we're safe. If not, the transcript can be e- mailed. 2) If you've never visited an AOL Live chat before... well, it's an interesting experience. I'll leave it at least. Suffice it to say that it is an experience one can do without. I plan to just wait for the edited transcript, unless something compelling comes up in my research project that I'd like to address. I'm unconvinced that AOL's chat forum is the best way to address anything other than generalisms. Expect mostly rehash of items we already know. 3) Um... have you ever heard Harry called *saucy* before? Okay. ;) --Ebony From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 4 06:43:30 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 01:43:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] H/H and why it's just wrong References: <200009261440.e8QEejo22054@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <002401c02dce$69804220$4cdd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2798 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen Kelly MacMillan" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 9:31 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] H/H and why it's just wrong BUT, there is absolutely no > evidence that Harry may have feelings for Hermione Why would JKR even introduce Cho Chang if HG was destined to become HP's major squeeze? Cho has figured peripherally in the last two books, and it has not been JKR's practice to create characters whose sole function is that of red herring or Macguffin. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 4 06:48:05 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 01:48:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's blood and Dumbledore's triumph References: <8qu07d+37dp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004301c02dcf$0cee5500$4cdd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2799 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 6:35 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's blood and Dumbledore's triumph > If the reincarnation spell requires "the flesh of a servant" and "the > blood of an enemy", what happens if Pettigrew rebels and Harry gives up > his hate? Hasn't Harry already done that? Compare thefeelings of pure hatred he expresses for Sirius Black in Book III, vs. his somewhat more objective reactions to Wormtail and Voldy in Book IV. Our boy is maturing! - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 4 07:41:46 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 02:41:46 -0500 Subject: Toon Casting References: <8qu07d+37dp@eGroups.com> <004301c02dcf$0cee5500$4cdd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <008601c02dd6$8cdb2fc0$4cdd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2800 Hey, forget Hollywood celebs - who would you cast for Harry Potter from the Warner Bros. animated toon characters? Here are my selections: Harry - Daffy Duck (Daffy just *loves* to play the hero, whether its Robin Hood, Drip-Along Daffy, Duck Dodgers in the 24 Century, the Scarlet Pumpernickel, etc) Ron - Porky Pig (Porky is the Quintessential Sidekick) Hermione - Kitty (the object of Pepe Le Pew's affections - hey, the first generation of WB characters does not offer a plethora of strong female characters ) Tom Riddle/Voldemort - Bugs Bunny ("Ain't I a stinker?" Bugs is so slick that he can always con anyone about anything; what better actor to portray the greatest Dark Wizard of our times?) Wormtail: How about one of the annoying Goofy Gophers? ("Take politeness to the point of pathology," writes Steve Schneider (in The Art of WB Animation) in describing the Gophers) Dumbledore - Elmer Fudd ("Be vewy vewy quiet - I'm hunting Dahk Lohds.oh, boy! Dahk Lohd Twacks!" Hey, Elmer once played Siegfried from Wagner's Ring) Severus Snape - Yosemite Sam ("Ah hate that Potter!") Hagrid - The Tazmanian Devil Sirius Black- Marvin the Martian (his Animagi is K-9) Gilderoy Lockhart - Foghorn Leghorn (ego-trippin') Prof. Lupin - Wile E. Coyote (every month, Homo Sapiens transforms into Carnivorous Vulgaris) Fawkes (The Phoenix) - The Roadrunner The Dursleys: Let's try "The Three Bears," the momma, papa and baby bear from the Chuck Jones series (1944-51) Draco Malfoy - Henery Hawk Cornelius Fudge - Pepe Le Pew Prof. Trelawney - Miss Prissy ("E-Yessss..") Dobby the Elf - Tweety Bird (" I did taw a ditcarded tock!") Mad-Eye Moody - Sylvester ("Thuffering Cruthio!") And if we were to go to a later generation of WB 'toons, who better to portray Voldy than that most ominous of genetically-altered lab mice, The Brain. Maybe Pinky could play Wormtail. "Gee, Voldy, whaddya wanna do tonight?" "Same thing we do every night, Wormtail: Try to take over JKR's narrative!") - CMC From fuelchic at edsamail.com.ph Wed Oct 4 08:28:53 2000 From: fuelchic at edsamail.com.ph (ReEse) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:28:53 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Imperius Curse Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2801 > >One possibility is that Crouch was trying to figure Harry out, what >makes him tick, what is he capable of, and how could he resist >Voldemort. So he repeats the curse over and over, supposedly for >Harry and the class's sake, but really so he could analyze how Harry >is shaking off the curse. And remember, he said to watch the eyes. >Crouch, as he watched with interest, noticed something unusual in >Harry's eyes as he fought the curse. And JKR herself has stated that >there is something important in the whole Harry/Lily eye thing. >Steve Vander Ark >The Harry Potter Lexicon >http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon ya, It's weird I've noticed the same thing too while re-reading GOF. Reese :) From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Wed Oct 4 10:36:27 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:36:27 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Toon Casting References: <8qu07d+37dp@eGroups.com> <004301c02dcf$0cee5500$4cdd4b0c@cq5wu> <008601c02dd6$8cdb2fc0$4cdd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2802 you've watched *too* much TV. Or maybe you have too much space in your brain. storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Caius Marcius To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:41 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Toon Casting Hey, forget Hollywood celebs - who would you cast for Harry Potter from the Warner Bros. animated toon characters? Here are my selections: Harry - Daffy Duck (Daffy just *loves* to play the hero, whether its Robin Hood, Drip-Along Daffy, Duck Dodgers in the 24 ? Century, the Scarlet Pumpernickel, etc) Ron - Porky Pig (Porky is the Quintessential Sidekick) Hermione - Kitty (the object of Pepe Le Pew's affections - hey, the first generation of WB characters does not offer a plethora of strong female characters ) Tom Riddle/Voldemort - Bugs Bunny ("Ain't I a stinker?" Bugs is so slick that he can always con anyone about anything; what better actor to portray the greatest Dark Wizard of our times?) Wormtail: How about one of the annoying Goofy Gophers? ("Take politeness to the point of pathology," writes Steve Schneider (in The Art of WB Animation) in describing the Gophers) Dumbledore - Elmer Fudd ("Be vewy vewy quiet - I'm hunting Dahk Lohds.oh, boy! Dahk Lohd Twacks!" Hey, Elmer once played Siegfried from Wagner's Ring) Severus Snape - Yosemite Sam ("Ah hate that Potter!") Hagrid - The Tazmanian Devil Sirius Black- Marvin the Martian (his Animagi is K-9) Gilderoy Lockhart - Foghorn Leghorn (ego-trippin') Prof. Lupin - Wile E. Coyote (every month, Homo Sapiens transforms into Carnivorous Vulgaris) Fawkes (The Phoenix) - The Roadrunner The Dursleys: Let's try "The Three Bears," the momma, papa and baby bear from the Chuck Jones series (1944-51) Draco Malfoy - Henery Hawk Cornelius Fudge - Pepe Le Pew Prof. Trelawney - Miss Prissy ("E-Yessss..") Dobby the Elf - Tweety Bird (" I did taw a ditcarded tock!") Mad-Eye Moody - Sylvester ("Thuffering Cruthio!") And if we were to go to a later generation of WB 'toons, who better to portray Voldy than that most ominous of genetically-altered lab mice, The Brain. Maybe Pinky could play Wormtail. "Gee, Voldy, whaddya wanna do tonight?" "Same thing we do every night, Wormtail: Try to take over JKR's narrative!") - CMC To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Oct 4 10:48:19 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend-Ings) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:48:19 -0000 Subject: JKR in Toronto Message-ID: <8rf1tj+co9f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2803 I know I haven't been saying much lately (mostly due to a now repaired computer failure), but I've been enjoying catching up on everyone's posts. I won't inundate you with comments on things that have already been thoroughly discussed. People have already said it all, and probably much better than I would have. I'm curious if anyone is close enough to Toronto to be going to the SkyDome to hear JKR reading from GoF on October 24? I picked up tickets yesterday for myself, my daughter and nephew. Nyssa said she was going, even if I made her pay me back for her share of the trip expense. My nephew is thrilled, I don't think he's ever been anywhere as large as Toronto, so the whole trip will be a new experience. I am very much looking forward to seeing it all through his eyes. Sheryll From brooksar at indy.net Wed Oct 4 13:38:18 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:38:18 -0500 Subject: Toon casting References: <970652677.32473@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39DB32CB.EBFF7E34@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2804 >Dobby the Elf - Tweety Bird (" I did taw a ditcarded tock!") I already suggested Tweety as the Golden Snitch.... From brooksar at indy.net Wed Oct 4 13:39:22 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 08:39:22 -0500 Subject: Toon casting References: <970652677.32473@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39DB330B.6BAD5C1@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2805 I think I would cast Marvin the Martian as voldy, and Gosamer the giant red critter as trolls. And Michigan J Frog as Trevor.... From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 4 14:05:07 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:05:07 -0000 Subject: AOL Chat Message-ID: <8rfdej+qvu1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2806 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ebony Elizabeth [mailto:ebonyink at hotmail.com] > 3) Um... have you ever heard Harry called *saucy* before? Okay. ;) This could only happen in Lori's PoUniverse! From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 4 14:57:12 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:57:12 -0000 Subject: so you think the Warner Bros posters are too goopy? Message-ID: <8rfgg8+jd9o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2807 Then try these - http://posters.barnesandnoble.com/collection.asp? userid=57T9ZV7FEK&PID=55020 they're canvas poster versions of the first three book covers (US version). Stunning! From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 4 16:55:49 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 16:55:49 -0000 Subject: Toon casting In-Reply-To: <39DB330B.6BAD5C1@indy.net> Message-ID: <8rfnel+r0e1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2808 For Gilderoy Lockhart, the WB should try to borrow Dudley Do-Right. They should also try to borrow Boris Battenoff to play Barty Crouch Sr. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks A. Rowlett" wrote: > I think I would cast Marvin the Martian as voldy, and Gosamer the giant > red critter as trolls. > > And Michigan J Frog as Trevor.... From linsenma at hic.net Wed Oct 4 17:01:48 2000 From: linsenma at hic.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:01:48 -0500 Subject: Cho Message-ID: <39DB627C.EB958EF6@hic.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2809 Hi -- > Why would JKR even introduce Cho Chang if HG was destined to become HP's > major squeeze? > Uh . . . puppy love, first crush & all that comes to mind immediately. If JKR's statement that all 3 main characters fell for the "wrong" people is to be believed, then Cho is Harry's Ms. Wrong. I assume it's just as true in the wizarding world as in the muggle world that people rarely marry their first crush. > Cho has figured peripherally in the last two books, and it > has not been JKR's practice to create characters whose sole function is that > of red herring or Macguffin. > I think she's largely served her purpose (as has Cedric) -- so I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't figure much at all in the last 3 books. On the other hand, it's also possible that we'll learn more about Ravenclaw folks through Cho (which would be nice since we don't know any Ravenclaws really). And, I don't discount the notion that she & Harry could develop a friendship in that sense. I just think it's *highly* unlikely that there could be a plausible *romance* between Harry & Cho after the tragedy of GoF. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Wed Oct 4 17:17:29 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 17:17:29 -0000 Subject: chapter discussions, new JKR article, ... Message-ID: <8rfon9+dhjj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2810 What has happened to our chapter and character discussions? They seem to be losing steam. I know that I dont usually respond to them but I really enjoy reading them, and I have been re-reading GoF one chapter per week in conjunction with them. There is an new article about JKR on AOL, in their Families section. JKR says she intends to continue writing after she finishes the HP books but the article is mainly about the huge load of $ she gave to a charity which supports single parents. JKR talks about how unfair it is for single parents to be stigmatized, etc. She gave the charity a whopping $730,000!!!! The Washington Post Book sections best-seller list, which has excluded the HP books for the last few weeks, now has a statement on it about how the local booksellers have decided to take the HP books off their adult bestseller lists - and therefore it has nothing to do with the Post. However, the Post does not have a childrens list, so essentially the HP books have been banished. Talk about sour grapes! Oh, and the Gore buttons that someone (Heidi?) has kindly offered to get for people are kind of cool; someone picked one up for me at the convention. They have a picture of Al Gore and (a greenish) HP, and they say Put the Wizardry back in the White House (or something like that). Only for the fanatical HP or campaign button collector, though, but of course if we werent fanatics what would we be doing HERE? -- Joywitch From vjmerri at iquest.net Wed Oct 4 17:22:43 2000 From: vjmerri at iquest.net (Vicki Merriman) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 17:22:43 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <003601c02db3$334798e0$8dc44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8rfp13+r5d2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2811 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? No. I think that was the Bush/Snape button. Vicki From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 4 17:39:34 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:39:34 +0100 Subject: Cho and first love, Chapter discussions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2812 Penny (welcome back - hope you has a good time away) wrote: "Uh . . . puppy love, first crush & all that comes to mind immediately. If JKR's statement that all 3 main characters fell for the "wrong" people is to be believed, then Cho is Harry's Ms. Wrong. I assume it's just as true in the wizarding world as in the muggle world that people rarely marry their first crush." I think the statement about the wrong people has to be taken very carefully. We were told that the person to die would be someone we cared for but I would argue that it was only through reading GoF that we got to know, and ultimately care for, Cedric. If this is applied to the first love idea, then it may be taken that Cho was the wrong person for Harry in the context of book 4. Hence she may not be the wrong person for him in the context of future books. Also the wrong person tag could be an indication that he was chasing after her and never got her. I could also argue that JKR said that they would end up with the wrong people in book 4. Harry ended up with Pavarti in book 4 and not Cho. So this could also indicate that Harry/Cho is still a possibility. People may rarely end up with their first / puppy love, but the word rare indicates that it is still a possibility. Penny also wrote: "I think she's largely served her purpose (as has Cedric) -- so I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't figure much at all in the last 3 books. On the other hand, it's also possible that we'll learn more about Ravenclaw folks through Cho (which would be nice since we don't know any Ravenclaws really)." I see Cho drifting like Ginny has to be a character that is around occasionally but is not really that important. Which is basically the same role she had in GoF. Joywitch wrote: "hat has happened to our chapter and character discussions? They seem to be losing steam. I know that I dont usually respond to them but I really enjoy reading them, and I have been re-reading GoF one chapter per week in conjunction with them." Are we still going to continue with these? I am happy to be involved with the discussion if the people whose turn it is to kick off the discussions get them going. Simon From linsenma at hic.net Wed Oct 4 17:59:03 2000 From: linsenma at hic.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:59:03 -0500 Subject: Campaign Buttons Message-ID: <39DB6FE7.E84A7003@hic.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2813 Hi -- I have a Gore/HP button -- but I'm awfully peeved to say that I bought it in an ebay auction & paid $15 for it (so grab those $3.50 plus shipping buttons if you want one!). It's cute. Being a Democrat & HP fanatic, I just had to have one. No desire for the equivalent Bush button though. <<<<> Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape?>>>> <<>>>> ROFL!!! Penny From brooksar at indy.net Wed Oct 4 19:00:35 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:00:35 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <8rfp13+r5d2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rfuok+es0s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2814 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vicki Merriman" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > > > Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? > > No. I think that was the Bush/Snape button. No, that's Buchanan. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 4 19:02:38 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:02:38 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) References: <8qunp7+n472@eGroups.com> <012b01c02cc2$5d2a3a60$968e7ed4@johnmitt> <004d01c02cf3$ee675b80$4dc54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <00d101c02e3a$43de5900$7e8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2815 > But even Harry is aware that the Sorting Hat first pointed him to Slytherin. Doesn't mean he likes the idea. In fact, he chose not to be in Slytherin precisely because he thought of it as the Dark Arts House. And was anxious about not belonging in Gryffindor in CoS for the same reason. I think his train of thought was something alnog the lines of "I don't want to be a Slytherin because I might turn into a dark wizard". Jinx From brooksar at indy.net Wed Oct 4 19:32:47 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:32:47 -0000 Subject: A defence of Slytherin House (was Purity of Bloodline) In-Reply-To: <00d101c02e3a$43de5900$7e8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rg0kv+86qu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2816 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > I think his train of thought was something alnog the lines of "I don't want > to be a Slytherin because I might turn into a dark wizard". Harry is an interesting contrast to Tim Hunter in _The Books of Magic_. Tim has seen a parallel universe's future where he does go Dark, and keeps doing everything he can to try to avoid it - but he keeps feeling forced into decisions that parallel the ones knows his pre-dark self made in that alternative universe, and keeps fearing even more so that his way will grow inevitably Dark despite his efforts to avoid that. -Brooks From skywalker1 at ibm.net Wed Oct 4 20:24:26 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:24:26 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <8rfuok+es0s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rg3lq+5j48@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2817 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vicki Merriman" > wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > > wrote: > > > > > > Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? > > > > No. I think that was the Bush/Snape button. > > > No, that's Buchanan. Actually, isn't it more Buchanan/Voldemort? From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Oct 4 21:27:58 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:27:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cho References: <39DB627C.EB958EF6@hic.net> Message-ID: <002e01c02e49$f9c80720$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2818 Penny, Didn't we learn about the Ravenclaws in CoS, during that "Harry is the Heir" bit? (Or am I wrong--my CoS isn't near to hand!, and it was the Hufflepuffs?) ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 12:01 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cho Hi -- > Why would JKR even introduce Cho Chang if HG was destined to become HP's > major squeeze? > Uh . . . puppy love, first crush & all that comes to mind immediately. If JKR's statement that all 3 main characters fell for the "wrong" people is to be believed, then Cho is Harry's Ms. Wrong. I assume it's just as true in the wizarding world as in the muggle world that people rarely marry their first crush. > Cho has figured peripherally in the last two books, and it > has not been JKR's practice to create characters whose sole function is that > of red herring or Macguffin. > I think she's largely served her purpose (as has Cedric) -- so I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't figure much at all in the last 3 books. On the other hand, it's also possible that we'll learn more about Ravenclaw folks through Cho (which would be nice since we don't know any Ravenclaws really). And, I don't discount the notion that she & Harry could develop a friendship in that sense. I just think it's *highly* unlikely that there could be a plausible *romance* between Harry & Cho after the tragedy of GoF. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From linsenma at hic.net Wed Oct 4 20:52:20 2000 From: linsenma at hic.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 15:52:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cho References: <39DB627C.EB958EF6@hic.net> <002e01c02e49$f9c80720$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39DB9884.AA0940DF@hic.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2819 Hi -- Denise Rogers wrote: > Penny, > Didn't we learn about the Ravenclaws in CoS, during that "Harry is the Heir" bit? (Or am I wrong--my CoS isn't near to hand!, and it was the Hufflepuffs?) I think we met Ernie Macmillan, Hannah Abbott & Justin Finch-Fletchley -- all of Hufflepuff in CoS. The only Ravenclaws we know I think are Cho & Penelope. Penny > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > To: HPforGrownups > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 12:01 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cho > > Hi -- > > > Why would JKR even introduce Cho Chang if HG was destined to become HP's > > major squeeze? > > > Uh . . . puppy love, first crush & all that comes to mind immediately. > If JKR's statement that all 3 main characters fell for the "wrong" > people is to be believed, then Cho is Harry's Ms. Wrong. I assume it's > just as true in the wizarding world as in the muggle world that people > rarely marry their first crush. > > > Cho has figured peripherally in the last two books, and it > > has not been JKR's practice to create characters whose sole function is that > > of red herring or Macguffin. > > > I think she's largely served her purpose (as has Cedric) -- so I > wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't figure much at all in the last 3 > books. On the other hand, it's also possible that we'll learn more > about Ravenclaw folks through Cho (which would be nice since we don't > know any Ravenclaws really). And, I don't discount the notion that she > & Harry could develop a friendship in that sense. I just think it's > *highly* unlikely that there could be a plausible *romance* between > Harry & Cho after the tragedy of GoF. > > Penny > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 4 20:52:32 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 20:52:32 -0000 Subject: Bill Weasley (Re: Casting - who?) In-Reply-To: <8re2q2+nh2d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rg5ag+q10g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2820 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > Who might play Bill Weasley (if we ever get that far)? > > My choice is Julian Rhind-Tutt. > > http://www.geocities.com/julesrt/ Works for me. He's cute; plus, he's my age and single--where do I sign up? (I have never even heard of him.) Can anyone set me straight-- filming has begun, but several roles still need to be cast? All the Weasleys besides Ron, Dumbledore, NH Nick, the Bloody Baron, the Fat Friar, the Leaky Cauldron folks, plus the Diagon Alley folks,--is Fudge in SS? Who am I leaving out? I guess we won't hear news about every single role being cast, but some of these seem important enough to hear about. We heard about Seamus, for instance. Kelley From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Oct 4 22:15:32 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:15:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cho References: <39DB627C.EB958EF6@hic.net> <002e01c02e49$f9c80720$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39DB9884.AA0940DF@hic.net> Message-ID: <016b01c02e50$a5036b60$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2821 Thanks Penny. I stand correctedly, happily~! ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 3:52 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Cho Hi -- Denise Rogers wrote: > Penny, > Didn't we learn about the Ravenclaws in CoS, during that "Harry is the Heir" bit? (Or am I wrong--my CoS isn't near to hand!, and it was the Hufflepuffs?) I think we met Ernie Macmillan, Hannah Abbott & Justin Finch-Fletchley -- all of Hufflepuff in CoS. The only Ravenclaws we know I think are Cho & Penelope. Penny > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > To: HPforGrownups > Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 12:01 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cho > > Hi -- > > > Why would JKR even introduce Cho Chang if HG was destined to become HP's > > major squeeze? > > > Uh . . . puppy love, first crush & all that comes to mind immediately. > If JKR's statement that all 3 main characters fell for the "wrong" > people is to be believed, then Cho is Harry's Ms. Wrong. I assume it's > just as true in the wizarding world as in the muggle world that people > rarely marry their first crush. > > > Cho has figured peripherally in the last two books, and it > > has not been JKR's practice to create characters whose sole function is that > > of red herring or Macguffin. > > > I think she's largely served her purpose (as has Cedric) -- so I > wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't figure much at all in the last 3 > books. On the other hand, it's also possible that we'll learn more > about Ravenclaw folks through Cho (which would be nice since we don't > know any Ravenclaws really). And, I don't discount the notion that she > & Harry could develop a friendship in that sense. I just think it's > *highly* unlikely that there could be a plausible *romance* between > Harry & Cho after the tragedy of GoF. > > Penny > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 4 21:33:54 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:33:54 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <8rg3lq+5j48@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rg7o2+7k1n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2822 > > > > > > > > Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? > > > > > > No. I think that was the Bush/Snape button. > > > > > > No, that's Buchanan. > > Actually, isn't it more Buchanan/Voldemort? Nah, that gives him too much stature...how about Malfoy/Buchanan or Crabbe/Goyle and Buchanan From vjmerri at iquest.net Wed Oct 4 21:36:03 2000 From: vjmerri at iquest.net (Vicki Merriman) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:36:03 -0000 Subject: Bill Weasley (Re: Casting - who?) In-Reply-To: <8rg5ag+q10g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rg7s3+9o3s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2823 : > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" > wrote: > > > Who might play Bill Weasley (if we ever get that far)? Assuming we get to filming book IV, which would be very difficult becuase it is basically impossible to turn out a good movie from a 740 page book. However, it is a good 6 years away, and I think that the new characters will be played by actors that aren't even in the corner of our eye today. i.e. the ones who are appropriate now won't be appropriate in 6 years. They will most likely have changed too much physically and as actors. Vicki From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 4 21:50:49 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:50:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Exam Questions [OT] References: <005301c02b20$b8969cc0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <00ea01c02e4d$295268c0$c5c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2824 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Firebolt" To: Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 3:55 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Exam Questions [OT] > > This reminds me of a Philosophy Finals Examination question that I have > > heard of. The question was 'What is confidence?' and the top mark went to > > the student who gave the answer 'This is.' Another story in the same vein, in Woody Allen's Stardust Memories (1980), he describes a philosophy final he took which consisted of a single question - "What is Your Definition of Existentialism?" - Woody had no idea, and turned in a blank exam booklet. He received an "A" - CMC From brooksar at indy.net Wed Oct 4 21:51:15 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:51:15 -0000 Subject: Exam Questions [OT] In-Reply-To: <00ea01c02e4d$295268c0$c5c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8rg8oj+g24s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2825 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Another story in the same vein, in Woody Allen's Stardust Memories (1980), > he describes a philosophy final he took which consisted of a single > question - "What is Your Definition of Existentialism?" - Woody had no idea, > and turned in a blank exam booklet. As opposed to something from a different movie where he describes being thrown out of his metaphysics exam for cheating; he was caught looking into the soul of the boy next to him. -Brooks From brooksar at indy.net Wed Oct 4 22:06:58 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 22:06:58 -0000 Subject: Bill Weasley (Re: Casting - who?) In-Reply-To: <8rg7s3+9o3s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rg9m2+afop@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2826 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vicki Merriman" wrote: > > Assuming we get to filming book IV, which would be very difficult > becuase it is basically impossible to turn out a good movie from a > 740 page book. I think it would be a TV (maxi-?) mini-series, and probably done by HBO. Imagine the whole 7 books as a mini-series along the lines of the combined _The Winds of War_ and _War and Remembrance_, or to a lesser extent _Centennial_. What they REALLY should do is film Books I-III in immediate sequence without waiting to see how Movie I does in theaters, 'a la' what they are doing with _The Lord of the Rings_. However, business caution will probably prevent this. One of the peculiarities of Disney's _The Black Cauldron_ is that it films a middle book of a 5 book series without any others being produced! At least we are avoiding that. -Brooks From bkretsch at zbainc.com Wed Oct 4 22:25:18 2000 From: bkretsch at zbainc.com (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 22:25:18 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <8rg7o2+7k1n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rgaoe+g88e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2827 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? > > > > > > > > No. I think that was the Bush/Snape button. > > > > > > > > > No, that's Buchanan. > > > > Actually, isn't it more Buchanan/Voldemort? > > > Nah, that gives him too much stature...how about Malfoy/Buchanan > > or Crabbe/Goyle and Buchanan LOL! Precisely... I was thinking Lucius Malfoy, there is just something about Lucius that *screams* politician. :o) Hmmmm.... how about Nader/Percy? :o) Bonnie P.S. BTW I am new, hi! I'm 30 and I live in Cincinnati, OH. P.P.S. I'd also love to see those discussions of PoA start back up (that's my favorite of the books), what chapter are you on? From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Oct 4 23:29:22 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:29:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bill Weasley (Re: Casting - who?) References: <8rg9m2+afop@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01fe01c02e5b$191ff400$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2828 The one thing I disliked about Disney and the Black Cauldron: (BTW, I own and watch the movie--it was a Birthday present to myself one year!!!) When the movie first came out--it frightened the "christian" fundamentalists due to the skeletons coming back to life scene--they of course went off on a rampage about it being too horrorful and too violent for the rating (G) it was given, and how Disney movies weren't to be trusted any longer... (I think you're heard that speech before, with different names in the appropriate spots?) and Disney bowed to the pressure, and took the film (before VCRS) out of the theatres. I was lucky enough to have a mom and dad who let me go see Disney movies, and got to see it (yay!). My son was only about 8-9 months old when Gardner Student Center, at Akron University (finnnnnnallllllly) talked Disney into loaning them a copy for the students to watch, and I lived up the street. I bundled Ian into a stroller, and we walked down to watch it. He was so good, didn't fuss at all. Even watched the first half--fell asleep during the second. (I love Gurgi the way Disney did him.) Of course, it took five years of begging to get the movie re-released! (1998, spring) :) Dee I realllly hope we don't have that kind of problems with HPm! One of the peculiarities of Disney's _The Black Cauldron_ is that it films a middle book of a 5 book series without any others being produced! At least we are avoiding that. -Brooks To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bkretsch at zbainc.com Wed Oct 4 22:38:56 2000 From: bkretsch at zbainc.com (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 22:38:56 -0000 Subject: Bill Weasley (Re: Casting - who?) In-Reply-To: <8rg9m2+afop@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rgbi0+3rsn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2829 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vicki Merriman" > wrote: > > > > Assuming we get to filming book IV, which would be very difficult > > becuase it is basically impossible to turn out a good movie from a > > 740 page book. Very true. Perhaps they can try to put it out in two parts, one that deals with the summer and the Quidditch world cup and the other that deals with the school year and the Triwizard Tournement - that might make it do-able. > What they REALLY should do is film Books I-III in immediate > sequence without waiting to see how Movie I does in theaters, > 'a la' what they are doing with _The Lord of the Rings_. > However, business caution will probably prevent this. I agree completely, for several reasons. 1) Business caution? PLEASE! :o) I don't think there is anyone in Vegas taking odds against the Harry Potter movie being a sucess. I think they know it will do well so they should really consider starting the filming of the second one right away - asap (after all, they already have all the rights and everything) before their young stars mature. 2) If they plan to film all 7, unless they will need to be quick with the filming of at least the first three if they want to avoid having to replace their young stars. After the age of 14 we can start to have Harry, Ron and Hermione played by actors who are really 16 to 18, but before then it gets kinda hard to believe. IMHO. :o) From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 4 22:51:08 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:51:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Yet another Snape Theory References: <8qsukb+ro92@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <02f001c02e55$96b33a40$c5c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2830 ----- Original Message ----- From: "ht " To: Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:01 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Yet another Snape Theory > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > > >What's wrong with Snape being a SOB just because he's a SOB? > > > > Because he wouldn't be very interesting then. > > I must respectfully disagree. You don't get many characters like > Snape -- a throughly nasty person who's (as far as we know) on the > side of the Light; a "good guy" who's not "good." > "So numerous indeed and so powerful are the causes which serve to give a false bias to the judgment, that we, upon many occasions, see wise and good men on the wrong as well as on the right side of questions of the first magnitude to society. This circumstance, if duly attended to, would furnish a lesson of moderation to those who are ever so much persuaded of their being in the right in any controversy. And a further reason for caution, in this respect, might be drawn from the reflection that we are not always sure that those who advocate the truth are influenced by purer principles than their antagonists. Ambition, avarice, personal animosity, party opposition, and many other motives not more laudable than these, are apt to operate as well upon those who support as those who oppose the right side of a question." - Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist, No. 1 From vjmerri at iquest.net Wed Oct 4 23:31:00 2000 From: vjmerri at iquest.net (Vicki Merriman) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 23:31:00 -0000 Subject: Lupin's transformation/moon timing In-Reply-To: <8ratvq+m9cc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rgejk+i7l5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2831 --- Grownups at egroups.com, "Blaise " wrote: > So the transformation cannot be triggered by moonlight, but by the > rising of the full moon. And the moon was long since risen when > Remus transformed. So there's a plot hole, and it's been driving me > nuts! I agree that there is a huge plot hole, but think that the only explanation in this case is "OOPS. No one is perfect." Alternatively, "I'm not going to ruin a good plot just because Remus is supposed to have transformed already." She could possibly do some retroactive rearranging by trying to argue that the moon didn't rise until late during that part of the year, but the bottom line, IMO, is "oops." Besides, doesn't the moon rise relatively early in late spring/early summer? Vicki From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 4 23:58:57 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:58:57 -0400 Subject: Pureblood? References: <8rgejk+i7l5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DBC441.74FB28E2@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 2832 I've been wondering about a definition in the wizarding world - one which we've talked about before. I know there is no definite answer to this, but I am wondering what y'all think. Is someone only pureblood if their ancestors are only witches & wizards, or are they pureblood if their ancestors are only Of Magical Blood? In other words,clearly, someone who has at least 9 generations of witches & wizards as ancestors would be a pureblood (say, in the definition used by Ernie MacMillan). But what about someone who has, say, a Veela as a grandmother, like Fleur? Is she a pureblood? Also, in Cassandra's Draco Sinister (the sequel to Draco Dormiens), Draco says that one of his ancestors is a veela as well - which means either that Lucius is descended from a veela, or at least married & had a child with someone who was. Given the big exception of VOldemort being half-muggle-born, how well would something like that go over at the Tuesday Night Death Eater meetings? And if it just has to be a magical creature, then what would the status be of someone who was half wizard, half house elf (if such a thing were genetically possible (but if giant/wizard or giant/witch pairings are, why not?))? From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 5 00:03:11 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 00:03:11 -0000 Subject: Lupin's transformation/moon timing In-Reply-To: <8rgejk+i7l5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rggfv+86mi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2833 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vicki Merriman" wrote:> I agree that there is a huge plot hole, but think that the only > explanation in this case is "OOPS. No one is perfect." Well, how about this...the transformation can be triggered by moonlight but will take place in any case when the moon reaches its highest point in the sky, visible or not...sort of like the Arthurian Sir Gawaine whose powers were governed by the sun and reached their maximum at noon. This would give Lupin a reason for thinking he could risk going across the grounds to and from the willow just after sunset on a cloudy night. This is just my own personal explanation but will keep me in peace until the Great One explains (if she ever does.) Pippin From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 5 01:11:57 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:11:57 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: al gore/harry potter buttons References: <8rgaoe+g88e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002001c02e69$4259d080$41c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2834 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bonnie Kretschmer" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:25 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: al gore/harry potter buttons > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? > > > > > > > > > > No. I think that was the Bush/Snape button. Bush/Snape? What are they thinking? W couldn't outscore Crabbe and Goyle on the SATs, let alone Severus. Bush is more the Cornelius Fudge type. - CMC From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 5 01:10:35 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 02:10:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] chapter discussions/romantic pairs Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001005011035.00872718@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 2835 At 17:17 10/04/2000 -0000, Joywitch wrote: What has happened to our chapter and character discussions? They seem to be losing steam. I know that I dont usually respond to them but I really enjoy reading them, and I have been re-reading GoF one chapter per week in conjunction with them. Not so much losing steam as lacking an engine driver? According to the list on Melanie's site (http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html), we should be on 'Ch.13' and 'Cornelius Fudge' and Skimmel is assigned to do the summaries. Perhaps he decided that there was just too much other discussion going on? *** Re: Romantic entanglements: Cho attended the Yule Ball with Cedric, and the implication seems to be that Cedric had asked Cho out of the blue and she accepted only because Harry hadn't got round to asking her. An alternative view - not seen through Harry's eyes - is that Cho and Cedric had been sweet on each other for a while and that she had only seemed interested in young Harry because he was the famous Harry Potter. When you have a crush on someone, it's quite easy to miss the fact that they are more interested in someone else. I agree with Simon that Cho could be the 'right' person if Parvati was intended to be the 'wrong' person, but that may be from Harry's pubescent viewpoint only. As for Ron, it's clear that Padma wasn't the right person for him, but it doesn't follow that Hermione or Fleur are right for him, just that he's interested in them. It's quite common for boys of his age to fall for the 'best friend's big sister' (Hermione) or the 'sexy pop icon' (Fleur). Only later do they meet someone more attainable and hide the pictures of the aforementioned in their sock drawer. Sometimes they end up with the big sister, but not often... The fact that Hermione ended up with Krum is the most significant pairing, because he was obviously interested in her and she was interested enough to accept his invitation, yet JKR has implied that she ended up with the wrong person. There is no evidence at the end of GoF that Krum was a bad choice for Hermione, so we can conclude that: a) Krum is not as nice a geek as he seems and we'll find out why. b) Someone else is the right person for Hermione. One or other or both of these could be true. I'm swinging more towards Harry-Hermione-post-Hogwarts these days [thanks Lori], but I still favour the idea that they'll all three remain just best friends and end up with other partners. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From joym999 at aol.com Thu Oct 5 01:44:05 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 01:44:05 -0000 Subject: Cho In-Reply-To: <39DB9884.AA0940DF@hic.net> Message-ID: <8rgmd5+k66u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2836 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > The only Ravenclaws we know I think are Cho & Penelope. And Padma Patil, Parvatis twin sister. -- Joywitch, just being nitpicky From cassandraclaire73 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 01:57:12 2000 From: cassandraclaire73 at yahoo.com (cassandraclaire73 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 01:57:12 -0000 Subject: Lupin's transformation/moon timing In-Reply-To: <8rggfv+86mi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rgn5o+fvh9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2837 I agree with Blaise...it's a plot hole and it's driving me nuts as well. I was trying to work Lupin into a story I was writing, and ran smack up against this problem. To my mind it's a discrepancy on the level of the whole Priori-Incantatem-James-and-Lily-wand-order thing. If Lupin only transforms when the moonlight touches him, why doesn't he just stay the heck inside? If he transforms at every full moon no matter where he is, then he would have already transformed before coming out of the tunnel with Harry and the others. Aaargh. From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 5 02:07:01 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 21:07:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cho References: <8rgmd5+k66u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DBE245.B066BDB6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2838 Joywitch wrote: > > The only Ravenclaws we know I think are Cho & Penelope. > > > And Padma Patil, Parvatis twin sister. > > -- Joywitch, just being nitpicky Well, they specified in Chamber of Secrets; did we know she was in Ravenclaw then? --Amanda, nitpicky too From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 5 03:15:53 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 03:15:53 -0000 Subject: Ravenclaw and Gryffindor Message-ID: <8rgrp9+r5hd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2839 Don't you think it odd that Gryffindor and Ravenclaw don't have any classes together? At least in Harry's year. Pippin From SHENmagic at aol.com Thu Oct 5 03:55:06 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 23:55:06 EDT Subject: Ravenclaws Message-ID: <11.a01ef03.270d559a@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2840 In a message dated 10/4/00 3:28:06 PM, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer writes: >I think we met Ernie Macmillan, Hannah Abbott & Justin Finch-Fletchley >-- all of Hufflepuff in CoS. The only Ravenclaws we know I think are Cho >& Penelope. > >Penny No, we know that Parvati's twin, Padma, is a Ravenclaw. The Sorting Hat also announced several Ravenclaws when Harry was being sorted, Terry Boot was one- I'd need to go snifting through to find others. Aylihael "?It's amazing how much mature wisdom resembles being too tired " From kippesp at swbell.net Thu Oct 5 04:14:37 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 04:14:37 -0000 Subject: Special edition Message-ID: <8rgv7d+6gjf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2841 I was in Borders this evening looking for info on the HP calendar. Nothing. But I did see a sign announcing a special, limited edition of Book 1. Cost $75. And for this mighty sum, one gets a leather bound book, gold edged pages, and (perhaps best) pictures drawn by JKR. My Borders guy said it was due at the end of August. So who knows when they will get here--but I just saw the sign tonight. As often as I'm there, this was a recent thing! And just to be on the up-and-up (and prevent ill thoughts), I'm not employed by anything related to books nor do I own shares in any companies related to HP. I just like the stuff. UNRELATED: Does anyone else find eGroups searching feature a bit limited? It doesn't appear to handle Boolean expressions. (Do we have 5k messages yet? Just wait until THAT happens!) From find_sam at hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 04:54:57 2000 From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 04:54:57 -0000 Subject: Ravenclaw and Gryffindor In-Reply-To: <8rgrp9+r5hd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rh1j1+tmeq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2842 Pippin wrote: Don't you think it odd that Gryffindor and Ravenclaw don't have any classes together? At least in Harry's year. Perhaps most Ravenclaws are just SO smart that putting them in classes with other students would be too intimidating. I mean, can you imagine Harry being up against a whole class of Hermiones? Yikes! Seriously though, one of the low points of the series is that JKR doesn't really let us know much about Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff. I want to know all the little details that most of us thrive on - where are their common rooms? Who is the head teacher of Ravenclaw? When will we meet the Grey Lady? It IS odd that Ravenclaw and Gryffindor aren't together for anything... perhaps they're together in the History of Magic but we just don't know about it. From bkretsch at spamcop.net Thu Oct 5 05:13:37 2000 From: bkretsch at spamcop.net (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 05:13:37 -0000 Subject: Egroups search function In-Reply-To: <8rgv7d+6gjf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rh2m1+bpfo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2843 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "smitster " wrote: > UNRELATED: Does anyone else find eGroups searching feature a bit > limited? It doesn't appear to handle Boolean expressions. (Do we > have 5k messages yet? Just wait until THAT happens!) Oh don't get me started on the inadequecies of the egroups search mechanism! Even if you know 3 out of 5 words used in the name of the group that you want you usually just get a big list of subjects and that's it! Arrrgh! I finally found this group when I pasted verbatim the name of the group I was looking for (started by a friend of mine) into the search engine. It was the only way I could find it! There has got to be a way to improve that thing! :o) If they are not going to use Boolean expressions and qualifiers, then they need to have some advanced search options of thier own that you can pick, there are just too many groups out there otherwise, you can't really find what you are looking for without wading through an enormous amount of unrealated sh*t. IMO. Bonnie From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 5 11:21:32 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 07:21:32 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Special edition References: <8rgv7d+6gjf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DC643C.9B1B1E19@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 2844 smitster wrote: > I was in Borders this evening looking for info on the HP calendar. > Nothing. But I did see a sign announcing a special, limited edition > of Book 1. Cost $75. And for this mighty sum, one gets a leather > bound book, gold edged pages, and (perhaps best) pictures drawn by > JKR. My Borders guy said it was due at the end of August. So who > knows when they will get here--but I just saw the sign tonight. As > often as I'm there, this was a recent thing! This is also available from the new Harry POtter store over at barnes & noble's website at http://www.bn.com From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 5 13:51:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 08:51:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin's transformation/moon timing References: <8rggfv+86mi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DC874C.1B7DAB6E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2845 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > Well, how about this...the transformation can be triggered by > moonlight but will take place in any case when the moon reaches > its highest point in the sky, visible or not...sort of like the > Arthurian Sir Gawaine whose powers were governed by the sun and > reached their maximum at noon. > This would give Lupin a reason for thinking he could risk going > across the grounds to and from the willow just after sunset on a cloudy > night. This is just my own personal explanation but will keep me in > peace until the Great One explains (if she ever does.) Good solution. I'd been thinking muzzily along those lines, but hadn't managed to get it coherent yet. --Amanda, whose kid turned 4 last week, whose anniversary is tomorrow, and whose husband turns 55 next week.....no coherence at all, no, no From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 5 14:03:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:03:00 -0500 Subject: Krum musings References: <1.5.4.32.20001005011035.00872718@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39DC8A13.AEC3742A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2846 Neil Ward wrote: > There is no evidence at the end of GoF that Krum was a bad choice > for Hermione, so we can conclude that: > > a) Krum is not as nice a geek as he seems and we'll find out why. > b) Someone else is the right person for Hermione. I don't think Krum's main function in the books is as a romantic involvement of anyone. I think the romantic involvement just brought him into the picture. I thought what was most noticable about him was that he *was* nice, which you wouldn't really expect from the school he was at. He's a pretty good piece of evidence that schools (or Houses?) with bad reps don't always turn out icky products. And a good hint that Voldemort won't be able to just sally up to Durmstrang's gates and have everyone throw him a party. Dumbledore made clear in his closing speech that he considered Durmstrang's students as allies, if they wished to be so considered. However, that's pretty vague, and the Krum/Hermione association puts a more personal face on it. Plus he and Hermione will doubtless be in contact, on one level or another, so I thought the seeds were being sown for a connection, or window, to Durmstrang during any upcoming conflict. There's lots of strings to Beauxbatons now---Fleur's favorably inclined to Harry as a friend, now, since he saved Gabrielle and Hagrid has hinted at future expeditions with Madame Maxime. But Durmstrang was pretty opaque without some more personal connection. Hence Krum. >From a plot viewpoint, anyway. --Amanda, still not really coherent, sorry "I'm talking and I can't shut up!" From sungod at themail.com Thu Oct 5 14:22:02 2000 From: sungod at themail.com (sungod at themail.com) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 14:22:02 -0000 Subject: Website feedback required please Message-ID: <8ri2qa+glqp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2847 Hi There I would truly like some feedback on my site as in: What you want to see What you don't want to see Wether it sux etc etc Yours faithfully Sungod24 http://pottersdomain.terrashare.com Boom Boom Mr Derek From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Thu Oct 5 15:10:37 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:10:37 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <003601c02db3$334798e0$8dc44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8ri5ld+fmgm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2848 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > > > I just got an email from the person who made the Al Gore/Harry Potter > > buttons > > Anyone selling Gore/Severus Snape? > I'd want Bartlet/Potter. ht PS: Coriolanus, eh? From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 5 16:11:55 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:11:55 -0000 Subject: Great Hall Table Position Message-ID: <8ri98b+mtbq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2849 Do the positions of the tables change from year to year? In the first couple of books I got the impression that the Gryffindor table was closest to the door to the main hall and was next to the Slytherin table( the description in CoS when they try to figure out how to get to the Slytherin Common Room). The Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff tables are between the Gryffindor and Slytherin tables. T.T. (MD) (DD) G R/H R/H S Yet in GoF I get the impression the Gryffindor table is the furtherest from the main door (the description of Harry having to walk past the Slytherin table and the other tables to get to the Gryffindor table). So the arrangement is like this: T. T. (MD) S R/H R/H G T.T.= teachers table S= Slytherin R/H= Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff G= Gryffindor (MD)= Main Door (DD)= Door to Hallway of Ravenclaw and Slytherin Common Rooms (CoS) **The doors are positioned in general location and doesn't mean that DD is positioned directly across from the MD or the MD is adjacent to the T.T. --Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 5 16:31:21 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:31:21 -0000 Subject: Website feedback required please In-Reply-To: <8ri2qa+glqp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8riacp+32bo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2850 Hi, you have a nice site. What kind of downloads are you planning? --Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, sungod at t... wrote: > Hi There > > I would truly like some feedback on my site as in: > > What you want to see > What you don't want to see > Wether it sux > etc etc > > Yours faithfully > > Sungod24 > http://pottersdomain.terrashare.com > > Boom Boom Mr Derek From vderark at bccs.org Thu Oct 5 16:34:44 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:34:44 -0000 Subject: Lupin's transformation/moon timing In-Reply-To: <8rgn5o+fvh9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8riaj4+ifnu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2851 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, cassandraclaire73 at y... wrote: > > I agree with Blaise...it's a plot hole and it's driving me nuts as > well. I Just a thought...Take into account the fact that Lupin chose not to drink his potion that night. Why would that be? Because he thought he's be okay -- maybe he took some the day before in anticipation of the full moon. If that's so, the potion's effects must have some lingering effect that he was counting on. He had to go in a hurry, he thought about the fact that he didn't take the potion, he figures hey, it's a cloudy night, the LAST draught I took will still protect me just fine in that case and I am in a REALLY big hurry. A bit messy perhaps, but it does make some sense. And then you don't all have to be going nuts. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Thu Oct 5 16:42:56 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:42:56 -0000 Subject: Ravenclaw and Gryffindor In-Reply-To: <8rh1j1+tmeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rib2g+4qcr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2852 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sam Brown" wrote: > Pippin wrote: > > Seriously though, one of the low points of the series is that JKR > doesn't really let us know much about Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff. I want > to know all the little details that most of us thrive on - where are > their common rooms? I think common rooms are supposed to be hidden from the rest of the school. The only reason we know where Slytherin's is is that Harry and Ron in the guise of Crabbe and Goyle follow Malfoy there. They didn't know until then. We do know a little about the Hufflepuff common room, though. It's down the stairs that you take to get to the kitchens to the right of the main staircase in the entrance hall, but then up. Harry hears Cedric walking that way in GF. Who is the head teacher of Ravenclaw? When will > we meet the Grey Lady? Harry did meet the Grey Lady in the corridor in SS12, but that was the only time and she just glided past him. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Thu Oct 5 16:47:44 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:47:44 -0000 Subject: Ravenclaws In-Reply-To: <11.a01ef03.270d559a@aol.com> Message-ID: <8ribbg+3vg8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2853 There are complete lists of the students we know of in each house in the Harry Potter Lexicon. Follow the link from Wizarding World to Places to Hogwarts and click on students. There's a nice master list there. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 5 16:50:52 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:50:52 +0100 Subject: Great Hall table postitions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2854 Hello >From Harry's sorting the table positions are: MD G R S H TT My impression is that they entered by the main door (they come across the main hall and into the hall). Harry's account gives the teachers table as being at the top, which to me indicates it as being on the opposite side of the hall to the one they enter by and they are then lead down the length of the hall to line up in front of the teachers table. In GoF, when Harry goes past Slytherin, it could be that he has is sitting at the end nearest the teachers table and has then walked to the middle of the hall and up between Ravenclaw and Slytherin (subconsciously passing Cho on the way). A hall such as this looks most impressive if, when entering, you are faced with the far table across your line of view and you staring down the gap between two tables. This gives a greater impression of length to the hall. Milz wrote: "In the first couple of books I got the impression that the Gryffindor table was closest to the door to the main hall and was next to the Slytherin table( the description in CoS when they try to figure out how to get to the Slytherin Common Room)." I believe that when they are talking about where the other common rooms are they are still in the main hall and it is from this position that they point out the doors used to get to the other common rooms. The layout I suggest also gives Harry the choice of being very near the door. Simon From bkretsch at zbainc.com Thu Oct 5 16:15:49 2000 From: bkretsch at zbainc.com (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:15:49 -0000 Subject: Priori Incantem and James and Lily's Echos In-Reply-To: <8rgn5o+fvh9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ri9fl+ibmp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2855 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, cassandraclaire73 at y... wrote: > To my mind it's a discrepancy on the level of the whole > Priori-Incantatem-James-and-Lily-wand-order thing. Hmmmm... you guys must have discussed this but I really have no desire to wade through thousands of messages to find out what the outcome was. Could someone tell me if you guys discussed the possibility that James was not killed by Voldemort, but instead by a death-eater, after Voldemort's demise, with his wand? If not, I can elaborate on the theory a bit and we can discuss it. Thanks! Bonnie From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 5 17:03:36 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:03:36 +0100 Subject: Correction to my post on Great Hall Table Positions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2856 I made a small mistake in my last post. The positions picture should have been: MD G R S H TT Sorry for any confusion caused. Simon From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Oct 5 17:37:52 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:37:52 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Priori Incantem and James and Lily's Echos References: <8ri9fl+ibmp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007e01c02ef2$fd9f1b00$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 2857 > Hmmmm... you guys must have discussed this but I really > have no desire to wade through thousands of messages to > find out what the outcome was. Could someone tell me if > you guys discussed the possibility that James was not > killed by Voldemort, but instead by a death-eater, after > Voldemort's demise, with his wand? Ooh, that's got to be one of the most logical ideas yet...please do elaborate... ~Firebolt From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 5 17:41:11 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:41:11 -0000 Subject: Goblet of Fire clothbound edition Message-ID: <8riefn+mcao@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2858 Well, I must say that I'm rather excited and pleased with myself. I just dropped a pretty penny on the last clothbound edition of Goblet of Fire on bn.com, and I feel absolutely no guilt whatsoever. I should be receiving it in @1-2 weeks, and I can't wait! Hey, Heidi - let us know when you've received the Gore/Harry Potter buttons so we can send you our money orders! voicelady From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 17:42:36 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Dialog between Sorting Hat and Sortee Message-ID: <20001005174236.26326.qmail@web4803.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2859 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Probably---presumably---the > hat has similar dialogues with all its wearers. And we've had several > posts > about how most of the characters exhibit some or all of the prominent > characteristics of the Houses. > > --Amanda Good point, Amanda. Also, notice how the hat took longer to sort some students than others? I suspect some had almost equal qualities for two, three, or even all four houses, while others were overwhelmingly right for one house. I've often wondered how long the hat took for Hermione. I'm sure the name "Ravenclaw" must have come up at least once while she was wearing it, even if it was only something along the lines of "Hmmm! You'd do VERRRY well in Ravenclaw, but......GRYFFINDOR!" This brings me to something I've been wondering. How exactly did the original founders sort the students during their (the founders') lifetimes? Did they pick them like teams? Did they lay hands on the students to read their minds, then discuss where the students should go? If so, was the discussion in front of the students? Did the students have any say? In either case, that must have been even more nerve-wracking than putting on the hat. For example, Harry thought "Not Slytherin," as anyone might, and the hat picked up on it. But would he have had the nerve to tell Salazar Slytherin, in person, that he did not want to be in his house? The Harry at the end of GOF would have, but I'm not sure about that scared 11-year-old who was new to the whole wizarding world. Just my two sickles. Melanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 5 18:36:45 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 18:36:45 -0000 Subject: Dialog between Sorting Hat and Sortee In-Reply-To: <20001005174236.26326.qmail@web4803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8rihnt+b7n6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2860 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Melanie Moore wrote: > This brings me to something I've been wondering. How exactly did the > original founders sort the students during their (the founders') lifetimes? > Oooh, interesting, Melanie. Presumably the founders already had students (apprentices?) when they started the school. That would be the origin of the four houses. Perhaps they came up with the sorting hat in an attempt to avoid conflict with each other and the students as well as to perpetuate the process after they were dead. It makes the whole tradition of secrecy surrounding the hat and the sorting more logical. From sarvalsha at dellnet.com Thu Oct 5 19:37:27 2000 From: sarvalsha at dellnet.com (sarvalsha at dellnet.com) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:37:27 -0000 Subject: Egroups search function In-Reply-To: <8rh2m1+bpfo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ril9n+n0fc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2861 > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "smitster " wrote: > > > UNRELATED: Does anyone else find eGroups searching feature a bit > > limited? (Do we have 5k messages yet? Just wait until THAT > > happens!) > If you are referring to the problem we were having doing a search on the archives where it would only search 5000 messages, that problem has been fixed. Something I found out while working on the FAQs. Margaret From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 5 20:40:30 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:40:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Priori Incantem and James and Lily's Echos References: <8ri9fl+ibmp@eGroups.com> <007e01c02ef2$fd9f1b00$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <39DCE73E.BD3897ED@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2862 Firebolt wrote: > > Hmmmm... you guys must have discussed this but I really > > have no desire to wade through thousands of messages to > > find out what the outcome was. Could someone tell me if > > you guys discussed the possibility that James was not > > killed by Voldemort, but instead by a death-eater, after > > Voldemort's demise, with his wand? > > Ooh, that's got to be one of the most logical ideas yet...please do > elaborate... We have discussed this at some length; there was a discussion going on as I joined a couple weeks ago. Perhaps someone who's been around longer can tell you how to search for those specific messages...? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 5 20:36:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:36:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin's transformation/moon timing References: <8riaj4+ifnu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DCE667.A2E76F8B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2863 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > A bit messy perhaps, but it does make some sense. And then you don't > all have to be going nuts. Not about *that,* at any rate. Nice theorizing. --Amanda From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 21:25:49 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ravenclaw and Gryffindor Message-ID: <20001005212549.612.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2864 --- foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > Don't you think it odd that Gryffindor and Ravenclaw don't have any > classes together? At least in Harry's year. > Pippin I've wondered the same thing. Since I identify with Ravenclaw more than any other house (hence, my Yahoo ID), I'd love to get to know some of the Ravenclaw students better. Maybe we'll see them more as the students go more into electives of their fields (unless the classes are still divided by house). Melanie (who is wickedly picturing Hermione trying to stay on top in a class full of Ravenclaws. Think they'd give her a run for her money?) PS: Another Ravenclaw I haven't seen mentioned was a girl named Fawcett (first name unknown). We hear about her after Fred and George tried to use an aging potion to get to the Goblet of Fire. Fawcett is one of two students Dumbledore mentions as having tried the same thing. We also "see" her at the Yule Ball when Snape chase her and her boyfriend(?) out of the bushes. Question: Is it just me or did anyone else picture Farrah hair on that girl? :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From drmm at Juno.com Thu Oct 5 22:05:48 2000 From: drmm at Juno.com (Dr M M) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:05:48 -0500 Subject: Insecurities & Romance pairings Message-ID: <20001005.170555.-297469.0.drmm@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2865 --- In ParadigmOfUncertainty at egroups.com, cassandraclaire73 at y... wrote: > *grins* Yes, I did say that. And I also said that if one identifies > with Hermione, as many of us do given the lack of another strong > female character to identify with, then one wants her to have the > best, and the best is *Harry.* I got yelled at a lot for *that* > remark. (And I hadn't even read PoU when I made it!) It's not that I > don't like Ron -- who doesn't like Ron? But, as previously discussed, > his insecurities and jealousies make him unappealing boyfriend > material for Hermione, and as for the 'consolation prize' arguement, > I think that's condescending not just to Hermione but to Ron as well. > *hmph.* You know, I can't buy the arguement that Harry's such great boyfriend material. Let's see. . . he's rich, he's famous and he's very much a nice guy. Now, that makes him decent boyfriend material. However, think about all the idiotic things that Harry does. In both the first three books he willingly throws himself into a life and death situation. In SS/PS he goes after Quirrel himself even knowing that he could well die. In CoS he tells no one besides Ron and the uselsess Lockheart about the basilisk even though he could have gone to some of the other teachers for help (I'm quite sure McGonagall would have been willing to listen). In PoA he goes after Sirius without running for help, or even sending Hermione to get help as he does in SS/PS. Would you want a boyfriend constantly risking his life like that? While it may be fun in a fantasy realm it would really suck in the real world. And while I know Harry always does it for a reason and his life or death situation in GoF isn't his fault, I'm still not sure he would be the "perfect" mate for anyone -- including Hermione. btw, I'm switching e-mails soon. . . so if you start seeing posts by drmm at fuuko.com it's still the same person ;) *~*~*~*~*~*~* DrMM can be reached at drmm at juno.com or #9689360 on ICQ The Many Worlds of DrMM at http://drmm.simplenet.com/ Most Recent Anime: Flame of Recca ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 5 22:09:07 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:09:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Insecurities & Romance pairings References: <20001005.170555.-297469.0.drmm@juno.com> Message-ID: <39DCFC03.9E2CA9D4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2866 Hi -- Dr M M wrote: > --- In ParadigmOfUncertainty at egroups.com, cassandraclaire73 at y... > wrote: > > > *grins* Yes, I did say that. And I also said that if one identifies > > with Hermione, as many of us do given the lack of another strong > > female character to identify with, then one wants her to have the > > best, and the best is *Harry.* I got yelled at a lot for *that* > > remark. (And I hadn't even read PoU when I made it!) It's not that I > > > don't like Ron -- who doesn't like Ron? But, as previously > discussed, > > his insecurities and jealousies make him unappealing boyfriend > > material for Hermione, and as for the 'consolation prize' arguement, > > > I think that's condescending not just to Hermione but to Ron as > well. > > *hmph.* > > DR MM: However, think about all the idiotic things that Harry does. Idiotic? Or noble, heroic . . . Guess it depends on your perspective. Besides, he wouldn't be the hero & the books wouldn't have nearly the pizzazz & punch & whatnot if Harry went running to adults for help at the crucial moments in the stories. Part of the appeal is that he does go it on his own. And, I agree with Cassandra, the *hero* of the stories (and the *best*) is *Harry.* Don't get me wrong -- Ron has plenty of appealing characteristics. I like his character very much but the stories are about Harry. > I'm still not sure he would be the "perfect" mate for anyone -- > including Hermione. There is no "perfect" mate. My husband does come close but he's human . . . has some faults (as do I). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 5 22:27:53 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:27:53 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Priori Incantem and James and Lily's Echos Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001005222753.00865714@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 2867 At 15:40 10/05/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Firebolt wrote: > >> > Hmmmm... you guys must have discussed this but I really >> > have no desire to wade through thousands of messages to >> > find out what the outcome was. Could someone tell me if >> > you guys discussed the possibility that James was not >> > killed by Voldemort, but instead by a death-eater, after >> > Voldemort's demise, with his wand? >> >> Ooh, that's got to be one of the most logical ideas yet...please do >> elaborate... > >We have discussed this at some length; there was a discussion going on >as I joined a couple weeks ago. Perhaps someone who's been around longer >can tell you how to search for those specific messages...? > >--Amanda It sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't remember for sure if that deatheater theory has been raised. The numerous Priori Incantatem discussions will (eventually) be summarised in a couple of the FAQs currently in production. In the meantime, for those of you who want to search for messages posted in the Yahoo incarnation of this club (as well as the earlier ones here in eGroups) there is an archive of nearly 8000 messages which Paul Kippes created when we moved over, at: http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups-Archives Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 5 22:25:36 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:25:36 -0500 Subject: Our New Welcome Message Message-ID: <39DCFFE0.688F642B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2868 Hi -- I thought that I would send the new welcome message to all members since lots of new people have joined up (and it's taken me forever to get around to creating a customized welcome/intro message). Any comments/suggestions for improving this letter are appreciated -- do let me know. So, here it is: Welcome to the HPforGrownups group at eGroups, a free, easy-to-use email group service. Please take a moment to review this message. PURPOSE: This group was created to give adult fans of the Harry Potter books a place to talk to other adult fans. Our discussions of these wonderful books are intended to be in-depth,thought-provoking and fun. We often enjoy delving into obscure and minute details about the books, characters, plot lines and so forth. AGE OF MEMBERS: While there is no required age to join this group, please note that most of our members are adults (over 18). Teenagers who are interested in more in-depth discussions of these books are certainly welcome, but may find that they are more comfortable in some of the other Harry Potter forums with mainly teenage membership. NETIQUETTE: You may want to read the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about this group. You can find the FAQs at: http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/grownups.html You will find that most of our members prefer to follow some basic rules of netiquette, and these are covered in more detail in the FAQs. In general, please try to be sure your postings use complete sentences and avoid all lowercase. This is not a RPG, and taking the time to proof your posts before sending them is appreciated. SPOILER SPACE: At this point, virtually all of the group's members have read all 4 Harry Potter books, and so we are not encouraging the use of spoiler warnings and spoiler space with regard to discussions of these books. Please do use spoiler warnings & spoiler space for predictions relating to the later HP books as some of our members may wish to skip those predictions. TOPICS FREQUENTLY DISCUSSED: Several members of this group are actively engaged in creating a series of webpages devoted to topics that get raised frequently. Our hope is that this resource will enable old & new members to see what has already been discussed (to avoid repetition & encourage new thoughts & theories). We hope to have these pages up & running sometime in October. A message to the group will be sent when they are available. To start sending messages to members of this group, simply send email to HPforGrownups at egroups.com If you do not wish to belong to HPforGrownups, you may unsubscribe by sending an email to HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com You may also visit the eGroups web site to modify your subscriptions: http://www.egroups.com/mygroups Regards, Moderators, HPforGrownups From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 5 22:50:39 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:50:39 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Sorting Hat/Julie Walters as Molly? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001005225039.0086a59c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 2869 Melanie wrote: >This brings me to something I've been wondering. How exactly did the >original founders sort the students during their (the founders') lifetimes? > Did they pick them like teams? Did they lay hands on the students to read >their minds, then discuss where the students should go? If so, was the >discussion in front of the students? Did the students have any say? In >either case, that must have been even more nerve-wracking than putting on >the hat. Perhaps they weren't sorted in that way in the early days. They may have had houses with other names which the pupils picked themselves (which is what happens in most schools). Then, one day, Helga called them all together in the staff room and said: "Hey, here's an idea - let's divide the kids up according to our personalities. Salazar - you take the evil social climbers, I'll have the sloggers, Rowena can have the brainboxes and Godric... you get the risk-taking show-offs." I'm dying to know the secret behind the Sorting Hat. *** Julie Walters to play Molly? I just saw Julie Walters interviewed about "Billy Elliot" (the film she's in, which also stars Jamie Bell - the first boy suggested as a potential Harry Potter) and she confirmed that she's been approached to play Molly Weasley in the Harry Potter film. She said "her daughter would kill her" if she didn't take the part. I think someone mentioned that she was playing Madam Hooch, but that seems to be incorrect. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Oct 5 22:53:54 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 22:53:54 -0000 Subject: Insecurities & Romance pairings In-Reply-To: <39DCFC03.9E2CA9D4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8rj0q2+fe9a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2870 > > > > DR MM: However, think about all the idiotic things that Harry does. > Penny wrote: > Idiotic? Or noble, heroic . . . Guess it depends on your > perspective. Besides, he wouldn't be the hero & the books wouldn't > have nearly the pizzazz & punch & whatnot if Harry went running to > adults for help at the crucial moments in the stories. Part of the > appeal is that he does go it on his own. And, I agree with Cassandra, > the *hero* of the stories (and the *best*) is *Harry.* > > Don't get me wrong -- Ron has plenty of appealing characteristics. I > like his character very much but the stories are about Harry. > > > I'm still not sure he would be the "perfect" mate for anyone -- > > including Hermione. > > There is no "perfect" mate. My husband does come close but he's human . > . . has some faults (as do I). > > Penny > *boggles* How did this conversational thread get from PoU to here? Mystifying. Anyway, when I made the comment that Harry was the *best* (which was slightly tongue-in-cheek anyway, I mean the poor kid's only fourteen, I didn't mean to be setting him up as the ideal romantic hero) -- I didn't mean he was *perfect.* Of course he isn't perfect. He does the occasional stupid thing, he's stubborn, he loses his temper, etc. I doubt I'd find him such an appealing character if he didn't have flaws. And Penny's right, if he didn't go off and try to deal with these situations on his own, we'd miss out on most of the action and it would get rather dull... From skywalker1 at ibm.net Thu Oct 5 23:00:02 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:00:02 -0000 Subject: Priori Incantem and James and Lily's Echos In-Reply-To: <8ri9fl+ibmp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rj15i+pmep@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2871 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Bonnie Kretschmer" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, cassandraclaire73 at y... wrote: > > To my mind it's a discrepancy on the level of the whole > > Priori-Incantatem-James-and-Lily-wand-order thing. > > Hmmmm... you guys must have discussed this but I really > have no desire to wade through thousands of messages to > find out what the outcome was. Could someone tell me if > you guys discussed the possibility that James was not > killed by Voldemort, but instead by a death-eater, after > Voldemort's demise, with his wand? > > If not, I can elaborate on the theory a bit and we can > discuss it. > > Thanks! > Bonnie Bonnie, First of all, welcome. The idea that a deatheater may have killed James has been brought up before. I can only point to my own messages and I wasn't the first to theorize along these lines but back around messages 1767 and 1825 the idea that Snape was there that night and killed James (intentionally or not) was bandied about. It had to do with Snape being a spy high up in the ranks of the deatheaters on a mission with Voldy. This could explain his hatred of Harry for stealing his glory and possibly explain why Dumbledore trusts him. Anyway, further discussion and ideas are always welcomed and this topic is one that still has a lot of questions surrounding it. Brian From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 5 22:38:33 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:38:33 -0500 Subject: Administrative Stuff Message-ID: <39DD02E9.A8C469E0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2872 Hi: MY EMAIL ADDRESS: has changed. All seems to be working fine though (it switched right over in egroups) -- still shows me as owner but with my new email address. NEW WELCOME MESSAGE: I just the new welcome message to everyone. Let me know if you have any comments or suggestions for improving it. I've actually just thought of one improvement which I will tell you about & then go make in the letter. I will add a paragraph making it clear that everyone is expected to make it clear when they are expressing opinions. It's highly misleading (particularly to new members who may be very new to the HP world) for someone to post things that profess to definitively answer ambiguous topics that are open to more than one interpretation. It's very very important to use some sort of qualifying language in those cases (for example: I think, IMO, I believe, etc.). CHAPTER & CHARACTER DISCUSSIONS: As far as this week is concerned, sorry that I did not realize it hadn't been done until I returned from my vacation on Wednesday. I'll try to be more on top of it so that I can remind the person scheduled more quickly. I will plan on trying to send a reminder to each person on the Sunday before the scheduled week. I have spoken to Skimmel -- he is profusely apologetic. He had confirmed the date with me several weeks ago but then it slipped his mind. He will get Ch 13 & Fudge up by Monday of next week & possibly before. I think the Ch 14 discussion should be posted mid-week next week & then we can get back on track hopefully. It would be helpful to me though if everyone who has signed up to do a chapter & character would make a note in their calenders. You can check your assignments at: http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html Trina -- you're up next week. Scott -- you have the week after that. Our first hole is Nov 20-26 (Thanksgiving week for the Americans). Volunteers? TOPICAL FAQS UPDATE: Most of us writing the FAQs have made a good start but are further behind than we expected to be. We will still try & get some of the completed ones up & running in the next few weeks, but it's looking increasingly like we'll be into November before the whole thing is done. We are working diligently. If there's anything else that needed addressing -- I'm sure to think of it later. :--) Thanks if you're still reading! Penny From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 5 23:20:53 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 19:20:53 EDT Subject: Romance pairings Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2873 Actually, I beg to differ. Sorry to brag, but I *have* the perfect mate! voicelady -------------------------------------------------------------- Penny said, "There is no "perfect" mate. My husband does come close but he's human . . . has some faults (as do I). " From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 5 23:35:44 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:35:44 -0000 Subject: My Brief Respite... Message-ID: <8rj38g+gh62@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2874 Hi all, I have been really busy this week and so I took a brief respite from the group, In fact I had to reregister (have I been gone that long?) Well tomorrow I shall return, (Yeah!) Scott From drmm at Juno.com Thu Oct 5 23:35:07 2000 From: drmm at Juno.com (Dr M M) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:35:07 -0500 Subject: oopsies :) Message-ID: <20001005.183726.-443437.0.drmm@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2875 Just to let everyone know . . . that last message (Insecurities & Romance pairings) was *supposed* to go to the PoU list, but I, in my brilliance got mixed up and sent it to this list . . but hey, if anyone else besides Penny wants to respond....feel free ;) *~*~*~*~*~*~* DrMM can be reached at drmm at juno.com or #9689360 on ICQ The Many Worlds of DrMM at http://www.fuuko.com Most Recent Anime: Flame of Recca ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 5 22:51:44 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:51:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ravenclaw and Gryffindor References: <8rh1j1+tmeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DD05FF.9EA1FAA5@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2876 Sam Brown wrote: > Pippin wrote: > Don't you think it odd that Gryffindor and Ravenclaw don't have any > classes together? At least in Harry's year. > > Perhaps most Ravenclaws are just SO smart that putting them in > classes with other students would be too intimidating. I mean, can > you imagine Harry being up against a whole class of Hermiones? Yikes! > > Seriously though, one of the low points of the series is that JKR > doesn't really let us know much about Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff. I want > to know all the little details that most of us thrive on - where are > their common rooms? Who is the head teacher of Ravenclaw? When will > we meet the Grey Lady? It IS odd that Ravenclaw and Gryffindor aren't > together for anything... perhaps they're together in the History of > Magic but we just don't know about it. It is odd. Perhaps they'll get do more double classes with Ravenclaw in the higher years? I'd like to get to know more of the Ravenclaw students, too. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 6 02:58:58 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 21:58:58 -0500 Subject: 7 Deadly Sins: Covetousness (long) Message-ID: <39DD3FF2.8B4D5B12@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2877 Covetousness is the ardent desire to possess something belonging to someone else. This aspect of possession makes covetousness different from, for example, gluttony, which also involves a desire. If you covet something, you want to have it--and your desire, if fulfilled, deprives someone else of that thing, who should rightfully have it. Perhaps you might remember the Ten Commandments warning against "coveting your neighbor's wife," which raises the question of the similarity between covetousness and lust--until you understand that in this cultural context, the word "covet" is used because a "wife" was considered a possession, a piece of property. (Peg rips at her hair for a moment and then decides to set aside the provocation inherent in this observation and go back to her original thread of thought. Nope, nope, we'll Not Go There.) The biggest instance of coveting in the series, in my opinion, involves the item which provides the title of the first book: The philosopher's stone. Voldemort wants the philosopher's stone in order to re-incorporate--I mean that literally, in the sense of the Latin root, corpus for 'body.' He wants a body back; more than that, he wants eternal life. The stone belongs to Nicolas Flamel, and so Voldemort is determined to steal it. Voldemort's coveting of the stone leads to a host of other evils. First, he tries theft (attempting to take the stone from Gringotts.) He tricks Hagrid into betraying Dumbledore's trust and revealing the secret of how to get past Fluffy. He ensnares and bullies Quirrel, enslaving him to his will and (eventually) leaving him to die. He kills a unicorn to drink its blood, a terrible sin with a terrible price. So, covetousness leads to greed, attempted theft, lies, betrayal, violence. Harry can defeat him only because he does not want the stone himself--it is that fact that allows him to use the Mirror of Erised to find the stone without giving it away to Voldemort. There is a more muted example in _Goblet of Fire_. Here, the coveted object is more abstract--it is the position of school champion, picked by the Goblet of Fire, that is desired by many, and eventually, the position of the Triwizard champion. Harry is accused by several students, particularly Draco, of coveting what is rightfully Cedric's ("Support Cedric Diggory--the Real Hogwarts Champion"). Harry at first is innocent of this charge. He might instead be called an "anti-covetor." He had thought of what it might be like to be the Hogwarts Champion, but once he had heard about the age line he didn't consider entering the competition. But when the Goblet of Fire spits his name out, and he finds himself to be a champion, he really doesn't want the role--even though, and perhaps especially though, everyone thought he did, and thought he was willing to cheat and lie to break the rules to do it. Most hurtfully for Harry, Ron thought so, and their friendship fractures because Ron reveals that he covets what, ironically, Harry never really wanted in the first place. Harry, in time, as he works through the tasks, comes to accept his role as champion, to the point that he really does want the Triwizard cup in the maze, just at the point he realizes that Cedric has won it. At that point, the cup represents to Harry everything that Harry thinks Cedric has that Harry wants--the true, unqualified right to be called a champion, the admiration of his peers (especially Cho). And yet, Harry resists temptation here, just as he did in the first book. He does not take what does not truly belong to him. When Cedric refuses the cup, too, Harry suggests that it be shared. By doing so, Harry is actually unmaking the sin of coveting; deconstructing it: a possession meant for just one is shared between two. (Too bad that Voldemort was waiting at the other end.) I've suggested before that Harry's upbringing with the Dursleys has perhaps served to "innoculate" him against the temptations of the 7 deadly sin, because Dudley in particular was such an awful example. Dudley had a multitude of possessions, but Harry saw that they didn't give him any particular pleasure. He would get a toy and then break it and forget about it. Rowling speaks specifically about how Dudley coveted things--he would want something if he saw that Harry had it. (Again, I make passing mention of the frequent rumor that Snape "covets" the Defense against the Dark Arts position. Yes, yes, I know it's just a rumor.) A couple more passing mentions: Hagrid covets dragon eggs. His desire to own an illegal egg causes him to let slip Fluffy's secret, as I've mentioned, and the end result, Norbert, of course, gets Harry, Ron and Hermione in a Heap O' Trouble. Draco seems covetous to me--he wants Harry's Quidditch glory (just as, it is hinted, Severus once wanted James'). He also seems to resent any of the professors' attention that Hermione, with her superior academic skills, deflects from him. I can't really think of a boffo ending to this post except . . . ok, that's enough for now. Peg From kippesp at swbell.net Fri Oct 6 03:19:40 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 03:19:40 -0000 Subject: Number of teachers Message-ID: <8rjgcc+kv9k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2878 Way back when we were doing the estimations of the number of Hogwarts students, Neil openly wondered in post Y6498 about the number of teachers being more than 12 he knew about at that time. Now I can't begin to give an estimate to how many teachers there are, but something in GOF jumped out at me suggesting that the actual number of teachers is higher. In GOF Ch. 30 (The Pensieve) on pg. 584US, or pg. 507UK +/-1 (is this right?) Harry sees "rows and rows of witches and wizards" in a mysterious room and concludes that the room is not in Hogwarts because he knew "there were not nearly that many teachers at Hogarts." Now I have no idea how many rows and rows comes out to be. But what seems clear to me is that even Harry doesn't know the exact number of Hogwarts teachers. My synopsis doesn't quite capture my initial reaction. Read the complete passage and see what you think. But to say "It surely wasn't Hogwarts" and "not nearly that many teachers" just seems to suggest a brief, small doubt in Harry's mind that he is in Hogwarts. Paul From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 6 03:52:40 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:52:40 -0500 Subject: The Talented Mr. Riddle References: <8rgejk+i7l5@eGroups.com> <39DBC441.74FB28E2@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c02f48$e0aa93c0$50c64b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2879 In the final chapter (18) of HP/CS, Dumbledore tells Harry and the Weasleys, "Very few people know that Lord Voldemort was once called Tom Riddle." Dumbledore goes on to explain that TR immersed himself in The Dark Arts to such an extent and underwent so many transformations that "he was barely recognizable." OK, so maybe Voldy's motivations in keeping his previous identity secret are clear, but why are the Good Guys going along with this conspiracy of silence? Surely Ginny and Harry could never have been duped if the name Tom Riddle were as notorious as the name of Voldemort. We know from the admirable History of Magic instructor, Professor Binns, that a thorough in-depth exploration of Wizardly history is an important area of study. Why isn't the rise of Voldemort tackled as an important historical topic in its own right? (Or maybe Binns did tell his class that Voldy began his career as Riddle, but they were all sleeping). - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 6 04:08:30 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:08:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Covetousness (long) References: <39DD3FF2.8B4D5B12@ibm.net> Message-ID: <005601c02f4b$171245a0$50c64b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2880 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peg Kerr" To: "HPforGrownups" Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:58 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Covetousness (long) > > I can't really think of a boffo ending to this post except . . . ok, > that's enough for now. > We can conclude by saying that we will continue to covet the privilege of reading your thought-provoking posts (although this is an readily-satisfied covetousness). - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 6 04:10:21 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:10:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: al gore/harry potter buttons References: <8ri5ld+fmgm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008b01c02f4b$5882e580$50c64b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2881 ----- Original Message ----- > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > > PS: Coriolanus, eh? > There is, as JKR has shown us, a world elsewhere. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 6 04:34:29 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:34:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Slytherin's evil References: <8qnuv6+hev8@eGroups.com> <39CFB3C4.C3EE96C2@texas.net> Message-ID: <00fe01c02f4e$b7b7bb40$50c64b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2882 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Slytherin's evil > > milz wrote: > > > About the Basilisk...it was meant to be a *servant* of the Heir of > > Slytherin. In other words, the Heir could use it for what ever he/she > > wanted. Tom Riddle chose to use it for *evil*. > > A trap many have fallen into, characters in many works of fiction and sometimes in real life---a strong enough character will be able to use something innately evil toward an ultimately good end. > I, for one, don't think it's possible. Think of the actions of Judas Iscariot, Pontius Pilate, and Joseph Caiaphas in bringing about the resurrection of Christ. Or of Adolph Hitler in the creation of the state of Israel. In one of the medieval Passion Plays, it is the devil who sends the dream to Pontius' wife (alluded to in the Gospel of Matthew), prompting her to warn her husband not to prosecute Christ; the devil (often referred to as the Biblical Voldemort) does this in order to attempt to prevent Christ's crucifixion, since he knows the resurrection needs must follow. Adult fans of HP might want to check out the masterpiece of the Soviet novelist Mikhail Bulgakov's The Master and Maragarita (1928-1940 - not published until 1966), which takes as it theme Evil as an instrument of ultimate Good. The plot concerns a great writer ("The Master") locked away in an asylum, and how the devil Wotan's appearence in the 1930s Moscow leads the Master's reunification with his true love Maragarita; the narrative runs the gamut from hilarious slapstick to the one of the most exhilirating and transcendent climaxes in all Western literature (hint: it involves two individuals named previously in the post). - CMC From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 6 05:04:33 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:04:33 -0000 Subject: Lupin and werewolf's In-Reply-To: <39D93C3A.1F2D201F@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8rjmh1+cjkn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2883 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > During the critical time in PoA, Lupin has gotten only part of the > full course of potion doses he was supposed to get. I am TERRIBLY bewildered as to what the full course of potion doses is supposed to be! Sometimes I read "As long as I take it in the week preceeding the full moon' as meaning one dose, any time during that week. Other times I read it as meaning one dose a day on each day of that week. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 6 05:16:41 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:16:41 -0000 Subject: Cho In-Reply-To: <39DB627C.EB958EF6@hic.net> Message-ID: <8rjn7p+5f94@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2884 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny Linsenmayer wrote: > I just think it's *highly* unlikely that there could be a > plausible *romance* between Harry & Cho after the tragedy of GoF. I previously would have agreed with you, but while my PC was in PC hospital this week, I fell under a compulsion to write a description of Cedric's funeral. While writing it, I realised that my character Mary Fawcett (from the fic I've been struggling with since forever) is both Cho's roommate and a neighbor of the Diggorys. So when I powered on the characters and they went around doing things that they hadn't been programmed to do .... Cho came to the funeral alone, not with parents, and ended up sitting with the Fawcetts, beside Mary Fawcett who was holding Cho's hand and so on in an attempt to provide emotional support and comfort. Mary recognizes Harry even tho' Harry doesn't recognize Mary, and when Harry, in response to a question, says that his parents died a long time ago, Mary decides that she has to feel sorry for him and try to comfort him, too. I can all too vividly see Mary spending the summer owling Harry to come to her house and bring Ron so they and she and Cho can play two-on-two Quidditch, boys against girls, or that Harry and Ron should come over so they can all go see one of those Muggle things called movies that Cho has told her about.... From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 6 05:37:13 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:37:13 -0000 Subject: Ravenclaw and Gryffindor/Fawcett In-Reply-To: <20001005212549.612.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8rjoe9+ac2d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2885 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Melanie Moore wrote: > > Melanie (who is wickedly picturing Hermione trying to stay on top > in a class full of Ravenclaws. Think they'd give her a run for her > money?) It cannot be that all the smartest students are Ravenclaws / all the Ravenclaws are smart students. Evidence: Hermione got the best grades in the class and isn't a Ravenclaw; Lupin said that James and Sirius were the two cleverest students in the school (modesty being his reason for not mentioning himself, irrelevance his reason for not mentioning Snape and Lily) and no one has presented any good reason to believe that they were both in Ravenclaw (and we do pretty well know that Snape was in Slytherin). It cannot be that all Ravenclaws are interested only in academics, as they have an adequate Quidditch team. (YOU know I'm a Ravenclaw, too.) > PS: Another Ravenclaw I haven't seen mentioned was a girl named > Fawcett (first name unknown). We hear about her after Fred and > George tried to use an aging potion to get to the Goblet of Fire. > Fawcett is one of two students Dumbledore mentions as having tried > the same thing. We also "see" her at the Yule Ball when Snape > chases her and her boyfriend(?) out of the bushes. Two different Fawcetts: "Miss Fawcett, of Ravenclaw" tried to cross the Age Line (as did "Mr. Summers, of Hufflepuff" -- a relative of our talented Lori?). "Ten points from Hufflepuff, Fawcett" was the girl who ran out of the rose bush (and "Ten points from Ravenclaw, too, Stebbins" was the boy). Also, a "Miss Fawcett" (no House mentioned) was one of the students told to go away in CoS Dueling Club incident. I have Mary as the fifth-year (as of GoF) Ravenclaw who is Quidditch-mad and, despite being something of a tomboy (she was the one in the Dueling Club), having a fifth-year Hufflepuff boyfriend who shares her passion for Quidditch (so Harry, in my previous msg, didn't need to be afraid that she was chasing him), while Ellie is a sixth-year Hufflepuff who met her Ravenclaw boyfriend when he wandered over to see who is that pretty girl talking to Mary. Oh, about being neighbors of the Diggorys: GoF Chapter Six "The Portkey", the Weasely party meets up with Amos and Cedric Diggory, who ask if they are waiting for any more. Arthur says no: "The Lovegoods have been there for a week already and the Fawcetts couldn't get tickets." 'Lovegood' is a great name, isn't it? From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 6 07:12:25 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:12:25 +0100 Subject: number of teachers and riddle Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2886 Paul wrote: "But what seems clear to me is that even Harry doesn't know the exact number of Hogwarts teachers." We have to remember that Harry will have seen most of the teachers. I would assume that most of the teachers make the effort to attend the opening feast of the year and that most will eat in hall at some time during the year. Due to this Harry probably knows how many teachers there are. CMC wrote: "(Or maybe Binns did tell his class that Voldy began his career as Riddle, but they were all sleeping)." Are you trying to suggest that Hermione fell asleep during a lesson? Maybe it was decided that there was no point in teaching about his past as it would not be important. Simon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 6 08:17:06 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:17:06 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of teachers Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001006081706.006f3cbc@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 2887 At 03:19 10/06/2000 -0000, Paul wrote: >In GOF Ch. 30 (The Pensieve) on pg. 584US, or pg. 507UK +/-1 (is this >right?) Harry sees "rows and rows of witches and wizards" in a >mysterious room and concludes that the room is not in Hogwarts >because he knew "there were not nearly that many teachers at >Hogarts." Now I have no idea how many rows and rows comes out to >be. But what seems clear to me is that even Harry doesn't know the >exact number of Hogwarts teachers. *** Your converter works really well, Paul! The passage you mentioned is runs from the bottom of p507 to the top of p508 in the UK version of GoF. My interpretation is that Harry was just confirming to himself that the room wasn't wasn't in Hogwarts. "It surely wasn't Hogwarts..." suggests that he was fairly sure of this in his mind, rather than questioning it (which might read "Surely it wasn't Hogwarts?"). The comment on the teachers - "Harry knew there were not nearly that many teachers..." - indicates that he "knows" the number of teachers and "knows" there are nowhere near that number; not even close to it. In other words, it couldn't be the teachers plus a few school officials, for example - there were too many people there for that. Besides, if he'd had a fleeting thought that it was present day Hogwarts and that these might be his teachers, he would have noticed that none of them seemed familiar before pondering on the overall numbers. I think there may be one or two teachers we haven't seen, but not many. For example, there may be a couple of subjects studied only by the senior students and we may see a teacher appear out of the mists, like Trelawney did. I'd like to hear more about some of the minor teachers and their subjects. Like the Ravenclaws, Professors Sinistra and Vector have been pushed to the sidelines for too long. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 6 11:54:55 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 06:54:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Talented Mr. Riddle References: <8rgejk+i7l5@eGroups.com> <39DBC441.74FB28E2@alumni.upenn.edu> <000a01c02f48$e0aa93c0$50c64b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39DDBD8F.96315B67@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2888 Caius Marcius wrote: > In the final chapter (18) of HP/CS, Dumbledore tells Harry and the Weasleys, > "Very few people know that Lord Voldemort was once called Tom Riddle." > > > OK, so maybe Voldy's motivations in keeping his previous identity secret are > clear, but why are the Good Guys going along with this conspiracy of > silence? Surely Ginny and Harry could never have been duped if the name Tom > Riddle were as notorious as the name of Voldemort. We know from the > admirable History of Magic instructor, Professor Binns, that a thorough > in-depth exploration of Wizardly history is an important area of study. Why > isn't the rise of Voldemort tackled as an important historical topic in its > own right? > > (Or maybe Binns did tell his class that Voldy began his career as Riddle, > but they were all sleeping). Good point (and your last line made me laugh). Well, Tom Riddle had come up with his nome de evil at Hogwarts, although I don't think he told anyone the name while he was there. I don't think he did much to establish an adult identity as Tom Riddle. Think about it: no credit rating. Probably no record of marriage or owning a home. As far as his victims knew, he arrived on the scene, fully blown, as Lord Voldemort. Not much for newspaper reporters (or historians) to go on) if he kept the two identities separate and switched from one to the other upon graduation (particularly if he laid mostly low for several years in between--perhaps off in Transylvania comparing notes with the vampires?) Peg From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 6 12:54:53 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:54:53 +0100 Subject: Tom Riddle Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2889 Peg wrote: "Well, Tom Riddle had come up with his nome de evil at Hogwarts, although I don't think he told anyone the name while he was there." In CoS (Chapter 17 - page 231 UK edition, page 314 US edition - I think the page numbers are correct) he says to Harry: "It was a name I was already using at Hogwarts, to my most intimate friends only, of course. You think I was going to use my filthy Muggle father's name forever? I, in whose veins runs the blood of Salazar Slytherin himself, through my mother's side? I, keep the name of a foul, common Muggle, who abandoned me even before I was born, just because he found out his wife was a witch? No, Harry - I fashioned myself a new name, a name I knew wizards everywhere would one day fear to speak, when I had become the greatest sorcerer in the world!" Peg wrote: "I don't think he did much to establish an adult identity as Tom Riddle. Think about it: no credit rating. Probably no record of marriage or owning a home. As far as his victims knew, he arrived on the scene, fully blown, as Lord Voldemort. Not much for newspaper reporters (or historians) to go on) if he kept the two identities separate and switched from one to the other upon graduation (particularly if he laid mostly low for several years in between--perhaps off in Transylvania comparing notes with the vampires?)" And to think the whole mystery would have been solved if only someone took a little attention to anagrams! It does leave the question of what people thought had happened to Tom Riddle. He is supposedly one of the greatest students ever to go to Hogwarts and then he goes missing. Did anyone make any enquires? Or do we get left with the answer that Lord Voldemort killed Tom Riddle (this idea is taken from some film - Star Wars?). Simon From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 6 13:34:46 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 13:34:46 -0000 Subject: Tom Riddle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rkkdm+l5av@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2890 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" < simon.branford at h...> wrote: > It does leave the question of what people thought had happened to Tom > Riddle. He is supposedly one of the greatest students ever to go to Hogwarts > and then he goes missing. Did anyone make any enquires? Dumbledore might have known/suspected that Tom Riddle and Voldemort were the same person, but been unwilling to make such a horrendous accusation without proof. Same goes for whoever wrote "Rise and Fall of the Dark Arts" and so on. As for the History of Magic classes, it always annoyed me in High School that we seldom even got to the twentieth century. I always had the impression it was deliberate...too many issues about which the "judgement of history" was still in doubt. Possibly wizarding school history courses suffer from the same fault. Pippin From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 6 15:15:13 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:15:13 -0500 Subject: A good HP story, Message-ID: <00d101c02fa8$39aca1c0$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2891 (Sorry, there isn't a link to click, so I had to copy/paste the whole thing!) I got this off the newsletter Infobeat Express. Harry Potter profits to be shared LONDON (AP) - J.K. Rowling, creator of Harry Potter, will share profits from her best-selling books with single mothers like herself, British media reported Wednesday. Staff members of the National Council for One Parent Families said Rowling donated a "six-figure sum" to the charity. In an article for the British tabloid The Sun, Rowling, 34, says she has vivid memories of the social stigma she faced after her marriage broke up and she moved from Portugal to Scotland with her daughter, Jessica. "When I went to claim my first week's Income Support, I felt as though there was an enormous neon arrow pointing at my head," she said. "I knew nobody was out to make me feel humiliated and worthless - though that's exactly how I felt." Rowling said she lived in a mouse-infested Edinburgh flat on $101-a-week state benefit. She wrote her best-selling series on notepad paper in Edinburgh cafes while sheltering herself and Jessica from the cold. She told The Sunthat the birth of her daughter was "the best day of my life." One of the worst, however, was when a health visitor brought Jessica some secondhand toys including "a grubby old teddy bear." If I'd felt humiliated before, it was nothing to how I felt when I looked at that teddy bear," she said. "It makes me sad that nobody turns a hair to see the word's 'penniless' and 'single mother' together in a sentence. People seem to accept that the two things usually go together." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 6 14:25:58 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:25:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Tom Riddle References: <8rkkdm+l5av@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DDE0F6.DCB79CCF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2892 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > As for the History of Magic classes, it always annoyed me in High > School that we seldom even got to the twentieth century. I always had > the impression it was deliberate...too many issues about which the > "judgement of history" was still in doubt. Possibly wizarding school > history courses suffer from the same fault. Well, they *do* still have three years to go. Possibly all the recent things, since they involved so much mayhem, are slotted to be covered in later, more mature years.....? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 6 14:38:48 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:38:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Slytherin's evil References: <8qnuv6+hev8@eGroups.com> <39CFB3C4.C3EE96C2@texas.net> <00fe01c02f4e$b7b7bb40$50c64b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39DDE3F8.6E49AEF8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2893 Caius Marcius wrote: > > A trap many have fallen into, characters in many works of fiction and > sometimes in real life---a strong enough character will be able to use > something innately evil toward an ultimately good end. > > I, for one, don't think it's possible. > > Think of the actions of Judas Iscariot, Pontius Pilate, and Joseph Caiaphas > in bringing about the resurrection of Christ. These examples don't fit the parameters I was setting out. None of these individuals were inherently good, looking at a big picture, and trying to use an evil implement to a good end. I was thinking more along the lines of the sort of trap one sees in (eureka! she actually comes up with an example!) Lord of the Rings, when Saruman the White, a strong character for good, gradually turns to evil through the years via study and close contact with objects used for/by evil. That whole hubris thing---I'll be strong enough to withstand the temptation and force this thing to do good. That was the whole temptation of the Ring. That's more what I meant. > Or of Adolph Hitler in the creation of the state of Israel. Ditto. Your examples are all good, but of a different situation, a small-minded or narrow-focused individual's bad actions ultimately helping to bring about a greater good. They may or may not be aware of the larger picture at all. This is what some black radio commentator I heard the other day get lambasted about, when he was trying to make the point that if his ancestors had not been brought to America as slaves, he would not today be where he is. Poor guy, nobody seemed to understand he wasn't saying slavery was good, but that it led to a (for him) ultimate good. Did that make sense? --Amanda From brooksar at indy.net Fri Oct 6 15:01:56 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 15:01:56 -0000 Subject: Lupin's transformation/moon timing In-Reply-To: <39DCE667.A2E76F8B@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rkph4+kajt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2894 Just to throw a further monkey wrench into this topic - Based on NHN's DeathDay of 1492 and 500th anniversary party in CoS (ignoring the contradiction of how long it's been since he's eaten, in Book I) the CoS takes place in the '92-'93 school year. Therefore, PoA takes place in the '93-'94 school year. The climax of PoA is, IIRC June 6th. Well, I ran June 6th '94 into my planetarium program, setting if for basically geographic center of Scotland (and set it for 1 hour fast summer time). While I didn't write it down last night, and will doublecheck it tonight, on June 6th 1994 the moon was 27 days old - in other words at the thinnest waning crescent before the NEW moon. Not full at all - just about the exact opposite, in fact. On June 6th 93 would have been 17 days old, three days past full and starting to wane. I think it is clear that JKR just wrote this whole bit for dramatic effect, and didn't bother to actually correlate the astronomy with the calendar of the year it would seemingly be set in; or she is not giving a 'true' timing of the years of occurence; or she looked at the wrong calendar (I'll check '95 as well) - heck, she may have even used a calendar for the year she was writing the book, not the calendar for the year it seemingly is set in. I can test each of these hypotheses with the planetarium program, and will report back to you. For the UK members, are my assumptions reasonable - center of Scotland, on June 6th summer fast time in effect? If so I can provide the exact times of the sunsets/moonrises as well - I could also give you the (probably negligible) time differences between the center of Scotland and Edinborough.... of course if someone else wants to haul out an ephemeris or an equivalent program and post it before I get around to it, feel free! -Brooks From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 6 15:31:55 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 15:31:55 -0000 Subject: Tom Riddle In-Reply-To: <39DDE0F6.DCB79CCF@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rkr9b+fd84@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2895 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > As for the History of Magic classes, it always annoyed me in High > > School that we seldom even got to the twentieth century. I always had > > the impression it was deliberate...too many issues about which the > > "judgement of history" was still in doubt. Possibly wizarding school > > history courses suffer from the same fault. > > Well, they *do* still have three years to go. Possibly all the recent things, > since they involved so much mayhem, are slotted to be covered in later, more > mature years.....? > > --Amanda Possibly. However don't you think anyone's parents, ie Ministry of Magic officials, would be upset about an essay question like "The Ministry's handling of the Voldemort crisis was totally incompetent. Discuss" ??? Far safer to stick to the goblin rebellion of whatever. From bkretsch at zbainc.com Fri Oct 6 16:22:04 2000 From: bkretsch at zbainc.com (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:22:04 -0000 Subject: Administrative Stuff In-Reply-To: <39DD02E9.A8C469E0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8rku7c+ualm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2896 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi: > Our first hole is Nov 20-26 (Thanksgiving week for the Americans). > Volunteers? I'll do that week if you want. Do I need to go to the web page to sign up? > Thanks if you're still reading! > > Penny I was, I read the whole thing! Do I get a gold star? :o) Bonnie From bkretsch at zbainc.com Fri Oct 6 16:24:16 2000 From: bkretsch at zbainc.com (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:24:16 -0000 Subject: Off Topic: Re: oopsies :) In-Reply-To: <20001005.183726.-443437.0.drmm@juno.com> Message-ID: <8rkubg+f0g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2897 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dr M M wrote: > Just to let everyone know . . . that last message > (Insecurities & Romance pairings) was *supposed* to > go to the PoU list, but I, in my brilliance got mixed > up and sent it to this list . . but hey, if anyone else > besides Penny wants to respond....feel free ;) > > *~*~*~*~*~*~* > DrMM What's the PoU list? Just curious... Bonnie From lrcjestes at msn.com Fri Oct 6 16:45:12 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:45:12 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off Topic: PoU References: <8rkubg+f0g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001101c02fb4$d6c928a0$c8af20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 2898 > > What's the PoU list? > Just curious... > > Bonnie Its an egroup for the distribution and discussion of the highly recommended fanfics "Paradigm of Uncertainty" (PoU), its prequel "A Sirius Affair", its sequel "The Show that Never Ends", and Cassandras fics "Draco Dormiens" and "Draco Sinister." There is a link to the egroup in the links section of the homepage for this group. but here it is for the lazy: http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty a lot of the people on this list also are following these fics. carole From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Fri Oct 6 16:52:24 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:52:24 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons In-Reply-To: <008b01c02f4b$5882e580$50c64b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8rl008+ft12@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2899 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > There is, as JKR has shown us, a world elsewhere. > As someone who bought the British versions of the HP books while in Stratford ON for the festival, I quite agree! Apropos of nothing, did anyone else quite think "Of course! Richard III!" while reading the scene in GoF where the shadows of the people Voldemort had killed come out of his wand and circle Harry and Voldemort, whispering encouragement to Harry and G_d-knows-what to Voldemort? ht From bkretsch at zbainc.com Fri Oct 6 16:51:55 2000 From: bkretsch at zbainc.com (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:51:55 -0000 Subject: Lupin and werewolf's In-Reply-To: <8rjmh1+cjkn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rkvvb+8ohe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2900 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > > During the critical time in PoA, Lupin has gotten only part > > of the full course of potion doses he was supposed to get. > > I am TERRIBLY bewildered as to what the full course of potion > doses is supposed to be! Sometimes I read "As long as I take > it in the week preceeding the full moon' as meaning one dose, > any time during that week. Other times I read it as meaning > one dose a day on each day of that week. Well it really doesn't sound all that hard and fast, but I do think that more than one dose is required. When Harry Sees Snape give Lupin his potion, Lupin responds that he should probably take some later on (did he say tomorrow or just later?). Either way it did not sound like he *had* to have some everyday, just that taking it a few times in the week prior was required. Does this make any sense? I think that with the Wolfsbane potion probably being a relatively recent invention, it may be that there is no hard and fast dosage known. :o) HTH, Bonnie From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 6 17:13:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:13:34 -0500 Subject: Ravenclaws, Search Feature, Voldy in History, First Love, References: Message-ID: <39DE083E.474EA004@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2901 Hi -- I know we met Padma from Ravenclaw but she didn't turn up until GoF. I was thinking only of students from Hufflepuff that we met in CoS (thanks Amanda!). And, even though several Ravenclaws were mentioned in the Sorting -- we don't *know* them at all. I still think the only ones we know really are Cho, Penelope & Padma. I agree with Paul that the egroups search feature is not all that it could be. I do wish it would handle Boolean searches. But, I suppose all in all, it's better than *no* search feature. Hopefully, they will improve it soon. > Why isn't the rise of Voldemort tackled as an important historical topic in its > own right? > I wonder if it might be because of the general fear of uttering his name & all that. Maybe covering him & his reign of terror in History of Magic would be too "frightening" for the students (and the teacher). I like the suggestion that maybe it gets covered in later yrs of that subject. And, I think the idea that not many people have ever associated Tom Riddle with Voldemort has merit. It would seem that not many people know much about Voldemort (or want to). > Simon wrote: Also the wrong person tag could be an indication that he was > chasing after her and never got her. I could also argue that JKR said that > they would end up with the wrong people in book 4. Harry ended up with Pavarti > in book 4 and not Cho. So this could also indicate that Harry/Cho is still a > possibility. Okay. As long as I'm free to use the same basic logic and say that Hermione is the "wrong" person for Ron since Ron fell for her in Book 4 (even though he didn't know or acknowledge it). Neil wrote: > Cho attended the Yule Ball with Cedric, and the implication seems to be > that Cedric had asked Cho out of the blue and she accepted only because Harry > hadn't got round to asking her. An alternative view - not seen through > Harry's eyes - is that Cho and Cedric had been sweet on each other for a > while and that she had only seemed interested in young Harry because he was > the famous Harry Potter. When you have a crush on someone, it's quite easy > to miss the fact that they are more interested in someone else. > I definitely agree with the latter view more than the first one, but I still don't necessarily agree that there was ever any indication of romantic interest in Harry on Cho's part. She was friendly to him on a few occasions, but their interaction was very limited. I think it's most likely that Cedric & Cho had been eyeing each other for awhile -- Harry just probably hadn't noticed. I think Cho's reaction is merely sympathy -- she's sorry to turn Harry down because she can see what an effort it took for him to ask her & how embarassed he is. I just never have had the impression that she was wishing she hadn't said yes to Cedric. If that were the case, something tells me it would have been very hard for Cedric to win her over at the Yule Ball. > Neil wrote: One or other or both of these could be true. I'm swinging more towards > Harry-Hermione-post-Hogwarts these days [thanks Lori], > Wow! :--) > but I still favour the idea that they'll all three remain just best friends and end up with > other partners. > At Hogwarts? If so -- that might be preferable (not likely given Ron's interest in Hermione but preferable perhaps). Post-Hogwarts -- well, everyone knows my preference. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bkretsch at zbainc.com Fri Oct 6 17:22:24 2000 From: bkretsch at zbainc.com (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:22:24 -0000 Subject: JKR's Poetic License In-Reply-To: <8rkph4+kajt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rl1og+fn1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2902 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > I think it is clear that JKR just wrote this whole bit for > dramatic effect, and didn't bother to actually correlate the > astronomy with the calendar of the year it would seemingly be > set in; or she is not giving a 'true' timing of the years of > occurence; > -Brooks I think you've hit the nail on the head there Brooks. I ran into the same problem trying to ascertain the day of James and Lily's deaths. The day Voldemort found the Potters was described both as Halloween (Hagrid says this to Harry in SS/PS Chapter 3, if I recall correctly) and Monday (because the day Vernon went to work and all that celebrating happened was on a Tuesday) the week before Guy Fawkes Day (Thurs. Nov. 5th) in 1981. However, Halloween fell on a Saturday in 1981 and in order for Guy Fawkes Day to be next week, the Monday they died would have to have been the 26th of October not the Monday nearest Halloween (the 2nd). My conclusion is that she did this for Dramatic effect. She wanted to show Vernon Dursley at work (not on a Sunday) and she wanted the Potters to die on Halloween. She didn't check the calender, or if she did she just said, ah well, no one will actually be insane enough to go check that anyway. Little did she know... LOL! Bonnie From brooksar at indy.net Fri Oct 6 17:23:53 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:23:53 -0000 Subject: More on Chinese release of HP Message-ID: <8rl1r9+oteo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2903 http://www.cnn.com/2000/books/news/10/06/potter.reut/ From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 6 17:37:32 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:37:32 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: First Love/Cho Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001006173732.0086aedc@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 2904 At 12:13 10/06/2000 -0500, Penny wrote: <<<....I still don't necessarily agree that there was ever any indication of romantic interest in Harry on Cho's part. She was friendly to him on a few occasions, but their interaction was very limited.>>> *** I agree with that. What I meant by saying that Cho was "interested" in Harry was that she had stared at him because he was so famous and, because he was interested in her, he may have assumed that his feelings were being returned. I say Cho was showing an interest, but not a romantic interest. Penny then wrote: <<>> *** I don't think it was sympathy on her part. She wanted to let Harry down gently and was probably equally embarrassed by his invitation. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 6 17:46:22 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:46:22 -0000 Subject: number of teachers and riddle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rl35e+k7oq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2905 > > CMC wrote: "(Or maybe Binns did tell his class that Voldy began his career > as Riddle, but they were all sleeping)." Actually, it doesn't seem as if Binns has gotten that far in History of Magic. He seems permanently stuck in the endless details of the Goblin Rebellions, which were back in the 1600's and thereabouts. Of course, it's strange to think that kids in the Wizarding World don't know the details about this very important aspect of their own history. Perhaps that has to do with Fudge's approach to the whoele Voldemort question: let's just pretend that everything's fine and all that nasty stuff is forgotten. The Ministry does dictate Hogwarts curriculum (although Dumbledore influences it to some extent and Fudge lets him do it). Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 6 18:10:31 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:10:31 -0000 Subject: Voldemort and Riddle Message-ID: <8rl4in+hhc1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2906 I agree with Penny that the reason why no one seems to know that Voldy and Tom Riddle are the same person has to do with the fact that everyone is so scared of him that they dont want to even say his name, let alone discuss his past. And, IMHO, the reason why Dumbledore doesnt go around telling anyone is because of his experience, noted several times in the book, that it can be very, very difficult to get people to listen to and understand the truth. He probably figures that no one would believe him, or if they did, Rita Skeeter would write try to make a scandal out of it. I can see the article in the Daily Prophet: *You-know-who learned all he knows at Hogwarts* Are our children being taught by the same teachers who taught the greatest evil wizard of all times? Is your little witch listening to the same History of Magic lectures as Voldemort? Hogwarts Headmaster, Albus Dumbledore, could not deny that the evil one was once a Hogwarts student, but denies responsibility for his training....... -- Joywitch From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 6 18:13:20 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:13:20 -0000 Subject: JKR's Poetic License In-Reply-To: <8rl1og+fn1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rl4o0+jbhh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2907 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Bonnie Kretschmer" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > > > I think it is clear that JKR just wrote this whole bit for > > dramatic effect, and didn't bother to actually correlate the > > astronomy with the calendar of the year it would seemingly be > > set in; or she is not giving a 'true' timing of the years of > > occurence; > > > -Brooks There's a page on the Harry Potter Lexicon which talks about some of the day vs. date questions as well as the problems with years (PlayStations were invented when?) in the series. Check it out--click on TimeLine and go to Time Questions. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 6 18:58:23 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:58:23 -0000 Subject: The Talented Mr. Riddle In-Reply-To: <39DDBD8F.96315B67@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8rl7cf+n6ah@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2908 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > > Caius Marcius wrote: > > > In the final chapter (18) of HP/CS, Dumbledore tells Harry and the Weasleys, > > "Very few people know that Lord Voldemort was once called Tom Riddle." > > > > > > OK, so maybe Voldy's motivations in keeping his previous identity secret are > > clear, but why are the Good Guys going along with this conspiracy of > > silence? Surely Ginny and Harry could never have been duped if the name Tom > > Riddle were as notorious as the name of Voldemort. We know from the > > admirable History of Magic instructor, Professor Binns, that a thorough > > in-depth exploration of Wizardly history is an important area of study. Why > > isn't the rise of Voldemort tackled as an important historical topic in its > > own right? > > > > (Or maybe Binns did tell his class that Voldy began his career as Riddle, > > but they were all sleeping). > I will BET that Binns' history was just like my history in high school. WE never got past WWI, and precious little of that. I'll bet that Binns never even gets to the rise and partial fall of Voldemort, that's current events! From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 6 19:01:39 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:01:39 -0000 Subject: First Love/Cho In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001006173732.0086aedc@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8rl7ij+rqr9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2909 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > I don't think it was sympathy on her part. She wanted to let Harry down > gently and was probably equally embarrassed by his invitation. > > Neil Wangoballwime? LOL! Jim Dale's rendition of this line is priceless! Pippin From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 6 19:40:43 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:40:43 +0100 Subject: Playstation and relationships Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2910 Steve wrote: "There's a page on the Harry Potter Lexicon which talks about some of the day vs. date questions as well as the problems with years (PlayStations were invented when?) in the series." Is the bit about playstation's a question or comment? If it is a question to the group then it is worth reading message 714 and is replies. I wrote: "Also the wrong person tag could be an indication that he was chasing after her and never got her. I could also argue that JKR said that they would end up with the wrong people in book 4. Harry ended up with Pavarti in book 4 and not Cho. So this could also indicate that Harry/Cho is still a possibility." Penny replied: "Okay. As long as I'm free to use the same basic logic and say that Hermione is the "wrong" person for Ron since Ron fell for her in Book 4 (even though he didn't know or acknowledge it). " Continuing with my logic, IMHO, would mean that Padma or Fleur was the wrong person for Ron. This is something we are always going to have arguments and disagree on. Even if JKR settles the debate then some of us will still say the pairings are wrong! That is part of the reason I go for some of the more wacky options. Neil wrote: "One or other or both of these could be true. I'm swinging more towards > Harry-Hermione-post-Hogwarts these days [thanks Lori]," Penny replied: "Wow! :--)" Lori has swayed many, but some of these still think it would require Ron dying. I for one only support the partnership only if Ron is not a factor in their lives anymore. Neil wrote: "but I still favour the idea that they'll all three remain just best friends and end up with other partners." Penny replied: "At Hogwarts? If so -- that might be preferable (not likely given Ron's interest in Hermione but preferable perhaps). Post-Hogwarts -- well, everyone knows my preference." But it is still possible that, even after Ron has admitted his feeling for Hermione (and maybe the reverse, or Hermione for Harry, etc...), that the three just remain friends. Simon From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Fri Oct 6 20:38:52 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Administrative Stuff Message-ID: <20001006203852.3457.qmail@web4801.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2911 --- Bonnie Kretschmer wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > Hi: > > > Our first hole is Nov 20-26 (Thanksgiving week for the Americans). > > Volunteers? > > I'll do that week if you want. > Do I need to go to the web page to sign up? Thank you for volunteering, and no, you don't need to go to the web page to sign up. I now have you plugged into that date. For anyone else, the next date available is the week of January 8-14, and there are also a couple of weeks open in March. For further information about those weeks, the address, again, is: http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion Thanks again, Bonnie. Melanie your co-list Mom, who is now caught up on messages, and vows to be more active again (and do her list-mom duties). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 6 20:38:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 15:38:27 -0500 Subject: Voldemort as History References: <8rl35e+k7oq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DE3843.7C2CD1B2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2912 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > Of course, it's strange to think that kids in the Wizarding World > don't know the details about this very important aspect of their own > history. A couple of relevant (I hope) factors, rather jumbled up: Remember this is a relatively small community. We've, through Harry's experience, bumped up against the ignorance factor before--things that "everyone knows," that no one thinks to explain, that everyone just assumes everyone else knows. Since information dissemination in a smaller community is often just as much word-of-mouth as formal instruction, perhaps the events of recent years and their aftermath were so immediate that people are only now beginning to realize that *some* people will be around who didn't live it and *don't* remember it. When you add the fear factor, I'm not surprised it's not taught yet. Voldemort's supposed to be *gone,* that's why Harry's famous, the threat is over. The adults don't want reminding, and the children who were babies then are only now getting to be old enough to start asking. I'm in much the same place with the Vietnam War, that Harry and his age-group are with the Voldemort Years--I remember "make love not war" patches on little 1st-grade classmates' coats, hearing that the war was over, etc. But I was little, didn't know what was going on, and never did properly understand it until college, when it had finally made it to the history books. But in all the interim it was spoken of and referred to by all of society like everyone knew all about it. Maybe only now the "assumed knowledge" gap is starting to be perceptible. Boy, I hope some of that made sense. I still know what I was trying to say, but I'm not sure I said it. --Amanda From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Fri Oct 6 21:50:04 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 21:50:04 -0000 Subject: Administrative Stuff In-Reply-To: <20001006203852.3457.qmail@web4801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8rlhec+d5es@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2913 > For anyone else, the next date available is the week of January > 8-14, and there are also a couple of weeks open in March. > > For further information about those weeks, the address, again, is: > > http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion I'm sorry, that's http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html I apologize for any confusion. Melanie From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Oct 6 22:24:56 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 22:24:56 -0000 Subject: Casting Suggestions In-Reply-To: <00c801c02d6a$ad690c60$670b073e@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8rljfo+cbed@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2914 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Alix Petty" wrote: > My personal vote for Dumbledore is Michael Gambon -- anyone else think he > was just amazing in Wives and Daughters? -- I think he could pull off the > wisdom and the whimsy of Dumbledore to perfection. > > Alix Wow! I've never seen "Wives and Daughters", so I can't comment on that, but the only thing I can recall seeing Michael Gambon in was "The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover". If I have the correct actor---Yikes! From C,T,W&HL I could see him being great for Vold! Or maybe Salazar Slytherin himself. Or maybe McNair. Anyone else see that one? He was outstandingly evil and creepy. And does our beloved JKR remind anyone else of Helen Mirren? Or Cate Blanchett? Kelley From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 6 23:25:38 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:25:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort/Richard III/Lucifer References: <8rl008+ft12@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DE5F72.3A6559E6@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2915 ht wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > There is, as JKR has shown us, a world elsewhere. > > > As someone who bought the British versions of the HP books while in > Stratford ON for the festival, I quite agree! > > Apropos of nothing, did anyone else quite think "Of course! Richard > III!" while reading the scene in GoF where the shadows of the people > Voldemort had killed come out of his wand and circle Harry and > Voldemort, whispering encouragement to Harry and G_d-knows-what to > Voldemort? Yeah, I love that scene (in both GoF and Richard III). I've already posted several messages about the similarity, but I'm too lazy to go look them up now. I was pretty pleased when I saw that similarity, too. Hurray for liberal arts. (even further off topic And do you know about the similarity between THAT scene in Richard III to the scene in Paradise Lost, where Lucifer practically says the same line that Richard III says--where can I fly, when most I fear is myself. Or something. I wrote a paper on it in graduate school, lo these many years ago, but I'm not in the mood to go dig it out of the basement to doublecheck the reference.) (There's another paper for you, Ebony. Compare and contrast Voldemort to Richard III and Milton's Lucifer; discuss.) Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 6 23:31:07 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:31:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JKR's Poetic License References: <8rl1og+fn1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DE60BA.90EB9E64@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2916 Bonnie Kretschmer wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > > > I think it is clear that JKR just wrote this whole bit for > > dramatic effect, and didn't bother to actually correlate the > > astronomy with the calendar of the year it would seemingly be > > set in; or she is not giving a 'true' timing of the years of > > occurence; > > > -Brooks > > I think you've hit the nail on the head there Brooks. As someone who has written a novel, I do, too. I speak from experience. I remember when I saw my book cover flat for the first time (for Emerald House Rising), I was complaining bitterly because they put a moon on it, and I said, "There is no moon in that world, I made sure of it; so why is it on the cover?" And then I re-read the damn thing, and there was a reference to the rising moon, in the first chapter. And I had completely forgotten I'd stuck it in. Boy, was I embarrassed. Peg Who sometimes loses things, but rarely anything as big as a moon, although it does happen upon occasion. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 6 23:37:49 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:37:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort and Riddle References: <8rl4in+hhc1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DE624D.7A06FD03@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2917 Joywitch wrote: > Dumbledore doesnt go around telling anyone is because of his > experience, noted several times in the book, that it can be very, > very difficult to get people to listen to and understand the truth. > He probably figures that no one would believe him, or if they did, > Rita Skeeter would write try to make a scandal out of it. I can see > the article in the Daily Prophet: > > *You-know-who learned all he knows at Hogwarts* > > Are our children being taught by the same teachers who taught the > greatest evil wizard of all times? Is your little witch listening to > the same History of Magic lectures as Voldemort? Hogwarts > Headmaster, Albus Dumbledore, could not deny that the evil one was > once a Hogwarts student, but denies responsibility for his > training....... Good point: Again, for the upteenth time, I refer people to one of my favorite critical articles about the HP books, the one by Alan Jacobs at http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html which includes the remark: The educational quandary for Albus Dumbledore, thenthough it is never described so overtlyis how to train students not just in the "technology" of magic but also in the moral discernment necessary to avoid the continual reproduction of the few great Dark Lords like Voldemort and their multitudinous followers. The fact that Voldemort was trained at Hogwarts is probably something they leave out of the alumni (oops, we had that discussion already), no, the former student fundraising/promotional brochures. Peg From bkretsch at spamcop.net Sat Oct 7 00:19:28 2000 From: bkretsch at spamcop.net (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 00:19:28 -0000 Subject: Administrative Stuff In-Reply-To: <8rlhec+d5es@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rlq6g+unk6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2918 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Melanie Moore" wrote: > > For anyone else, the next date available is the week of January > > 8-14, and there are also a couple of weeks open in March. > > > > For further information about those weeks, the address, again, is: > > > > http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion > > I'm sorry, that's > http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html > > I apologize for any confusion. > > Melanie Np, I found the site. I am dissappointed that I missed book #3 though... :( Ah well, I'm in another discussion group that will get to it some time in early 2001. :o) I see that I am to also discuss Barty Crouch. Am I to assume this is Crouch Sr.? After all, I saw a discussion later slotted for Mad-Eye-Moody and it's going to be hard to discuss the *real* Moody - so I guess that will become a discussion of Barty Jr., right? Or do I discuss them both (Jr. and Sr.)? Bonnie From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 7 04:05:48 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 04:05:48 -0000 Subject: red hair/is Dumbledore Lily's grandfather? Message-ID: <8rm7es+duq0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2919 LOL... Lily is revealed to have dark red hair (CoS Mirror of Erised) Dumbledore has auburn hair (CoS, Riddle's memories) Ha! Perhaps Harry is the heir of Dumbledore (never mind these off the wall theories that Voldmort is related to Harry) AND...what about the Weasleys? Might Lily and/or Dumbledore be related to THEM? Susan From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Oct 7 05:29:10 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 22:29:10 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Krum musings In-Reply-To: <39DC8A13.AEC3742A@texas.net> References: <1.5.4.32.20001005011035.00872718@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001006222544.02083690@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2920 At 09:03 AM 10/5/00 -0500, Amanda Lewanski wrote: >And a good hint that Voldemort won't be able to just sally up to >Durmstrang's gates and have everyone throw him a party. All we really know about Durmstrang is that they *teach* Dark Arts. That could just mean that they take a "libertarian" stance rather that having an actual commitment to the Dark Side. -- Dave From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Sat Oct 7 06:01:39 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Administrative Stuff Message-ID: <20001007060139.2919.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2921 --- Bonnie Kretschmer wrote: > I see that I am to also discuss Barty Crouch. Am I to assume > this is Crouch Sr.? After all, I saw a discussion later slotted > for Mad-Eye-Moody and it's going to be hard to discuss the > *real* Moody - so I guess that will become a discussion of > Barty Jr., right? Or do I discuss them both (Jr. and Sr.)? > > Bonnie If I rememember correctly, we were mainly thinking of Sr. (the one we've known all along as Barty Crouch). But if you want to write about both, so much the better! Thanks again. Melanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Sat Oct 7 15:01:25 2000 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 11:01:25 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8r7ou3+c11m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DF3AC5.C953C3EB@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2922 Brooks R wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, fluctuation at r... wrote: > > One thing that really bugs me is why Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. > > would make Harry go through the Imperius curse over and over again > > until he got it right? Wouldn't he have realised that Voldrmort > might > > need the curse to take control of Harry? > > I think he got so caught up in acting the role of Moody that he > overlooked the possibility. I think that other than the things he > specifically planned to do, to ensure Harry won and got to the Cup/ > portkey first, he concentrated all other thoughts on properly acting > out the role of Moody - to the point of overlooking that some of the > things he did as Moody might hurt Voldy's overall efforts. > > Sometimes Evil does its task so well it ends up helping Good after > all. > > (Note - this has bothered me too, and the above is the only > explanation I can come up with that isn't - "JKR thought of him as > Moody and wrote that by mistake"). > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com I've been thinking of this as well. But remember, the dementors performed the kiss *before* we ever got to hear Barty Jr.'s side of the story. What if he wasn't exactly the loyal servant of Voldemort we were expecting him to be. I think JKR is leaving this wide open for an interesting plot twist... drpam From lrcjestes at msn.com Sat Oct 7 15:08:46 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:08:46 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8r7ou3+c11m@eGroups.com> <39DF3AC5.C953C3EB@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: <001801c03070$886eb140$cc43ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 2923 > I've been thinking of this as well. But remember, the dementors > performed the kiss *before* we ever got to hear Barty Jr.'s side of the > story. What if he wasn't exactly the loyal servant of Voldemort we were > expecting him to be. I think JKR is leaving this wide open for an > interesting plot twist... > > drpam > No, we got to hear exactly Barty Jr.'s side of the story under Veritaserum....the dementor's kiss was performed after that.. carole From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 16:20:39 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 16:20:39 -0000 Subject: Administrative Stuff In-Reply-To: <8rlq6g+unk6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rnign+9msr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2924 I think we know enough about all three characters (Mad Eye Moody, and both Barty Crouches) to discusss each of them. The main problem is to separate the things that Moody/Crouch did into actions based on Crouch's personality and actions that Croush based on his portrayal of Moody's personality. To complicate things, though, some of Moody/Crouch's actions incorporate aspects of both Moody's and Crouch's personalities. For instance, the "bouncing ferret incident" (lol) probably is a good indication of the real Moody's style of doing things, but Moody/Crouch's motive for doing it is perhaps partly based on Crouch using Draco to vent his annoyance at Lucius's unfaithfulness to Voldemort. Nevertheless, Crouch must have been doing an almost perfect impression of Moody all along to fool people like Dumbledore who knew the real Moody (at least until the very end), so although there are almost certainly some subtle (and confusing, if we were to meet the real Moody) differences, Crouch's version of Moody is no doubt an extremely close approximation to the real thing. From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 7 17:38:33 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 12:38:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] red hair/is Dumbledore Lily's grandfather? References: <8rm7es+duq0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DF5F98.984A5420@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2925 Susan McGee wrote: > Lily is revealed to have dark red hair (CoS Mirror of Erised) > Dumbledore has auburn hair (CoS, Riddle's memories) > > Ha! Perhaps Harry is the heir of Dumbledore (never mind > these off the wall theories that Voldmort is related to Harry) > > AND...what about the Weasleys? Might Lily and/or Dumbledore > be related to THEM? But the Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives. That's stated several times, by lots of different sources. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 7 17:41:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 12:41:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8r7ou3+c11m@eGroups.com> <39DF3AC5.C953C3EB@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: <39DF6045.5D713D8B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2926 Pam Hugonnet wrote: > I've been thinking of this as well. But remember, the dementors > performed the kiss *before* we ever got to hear Barty Jr.'s side of the > story. No, they performed the kiss before he got to *testify.* He told his story, in great detail and under very strong Veritaserum, to Dumbledore, Snape, McGonagall, and Harry. He was indeed a very faithful servant. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 7 17:44:04 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 12:44:04 -0500 Subject: Moody thoughts References: <8rnign+9msr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39DF60E3.AE485A36@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2927 Steve Bates wrote: > Nevertheless, Crouch must have been doing an almost perfect > impression of Moody all along to fool people like Dumbledore who knew > the real Moody (at least until the very end), so although there are > almost certainly some subtle (and confusing, if we were to meet the > real Moody) differences, Crouch's version of Moody is no doubt an > extremely close approximation to the real thing. And I'm sure that (the real Moody excepted) most people don't go around wondering if their friend/acquaintance is actually someone else under Polyjuice, if that friend happens to be acting a bit off. Polyjuice probably isn't on the top 10 list of reasons. --Amanda From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 18:10:30 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 18:10:30 -0000 Subject: Moody thoughts In-Reply-To: <39DF60E3.AE485A36@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rnoum+p0nc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2928 Exactly; Crouch's success at impersonating Moody depended on the same principle of misdirection that the Muggle version of magic is based on. People see what they expect to see, and only a very paranoid person would even let the thought that Moody was not really Moddy cross his or her mind. I am sure that Dumbledore, for instance, noticed many miniscule things over the year that indicated that Moody was not quite what he seemed, but none of them were significant enough for even him to guess the truth. When Moody/Crouch took Harry off at the end of the book, though, that must have been a significant enough deviation from the behavior of the real Moody to set off alarm bells in Dumbledore's mind. And then all those little things he'd been noticing all year would suddenly have made sense. Still, Crouch must have been a tremendous actor to stay enough in character that the only differences from the real Moody were insignificant enough that nobody noticed them until it was almost too late. He only broke character as much as he did in the end because he was desparate enough to take a risk in order to get Harry alone; also his success at impersonating Moody for nine months had probably made him just a little too sure of himself by that time. From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 20:45:12 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 06:45:12 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] red hair/is Dumbledore Lily's grandfather? References: <8rm7es+duq0@eGroups.com> <39DF5F98.984A5420@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2929 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 3:38 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] red hair/is Dumbledore Lily's grandfather? Susan McGee wrote: > Lily is revealed to have dark red hair (CoS Mirror of Erised) > Dumbledore has auburn hair (CoS, Riddle's memories) > > Ha! Perhaps Harry is the heir of Dumbledore (never mind > these off the wall theories that Voldmort is related to Harry) > > AND...what about the Weasleys? Might Lily and/or Dumbledore > be related to THEM? But the Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives. That's stated several times, by lots of different sources. --Amanda nevermind that, its such a good idea that Dumbledore might be Harry's g/grandfather. someone good in his corner! poor harry. storm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 20:49:17 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 06:49:17 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Moody thoughts References: <8rnign+9msr@eGroups.com> <39DF60E3.AE485A36@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2930 And I'm sure that (the real Moody excepted) most people don't go around wondering if their friend/acquaintance is actually someone else under Polyjuice, if that friend happens to be acting a bit off. Polyjuice probably isn't on the top 10 list of reasons. --Amanda amanda - you are obviously not pariond enough , On topic - also Moody appears to have lived a fairly reclusive life - so maybe no body really knows what he is like anymore and buy the public image that he is really very odd (which it appears he is, but ways of being odd could differ to BC jr's Moody. we will have to wait until JKR sees fit to reveal more...) storm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 7 23:22:38 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:22:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort/Richard III/Lucifer References: <8rl008+ft12@eGroups.com> <39DE5F72.3A6559E6@ibm.net> Message-ID: <001801c030b5$7c18fc80$42c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2931 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peg Kerr" To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 6:25 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort/Richard III/Lucifer > ht wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > > wrote: > > > There is, as JKR has shown us, a world elsewhere. > > > > > As someone who bought the British versions of the HP books while in > > Stratford ON for the festival, I quite agree! > > > > Apropos of nothing, did anyone else quite think "Of course! Richard > > III!" while reading the scene in GoF where the shadows of the people > > Voldemort had killed come out of his wand and circle Harry and > > Voldemort, whispering encouragement to Harry and G_d-knows-what to > > Voldemort? > > Yeah, I love that scene (in both GoF and Richard III). I've already > posted several messages about the similarity, but I'm too lazy to go > look them up now. I was pretty pleased when I saw that similarity, > too. Hurray for liberal arts. > > (even further off topic And do you know about the similarity between > THAT scene in Richard III to the scene in Paradise Lost, where Lucifer > practically says the same line that Richard III says--where can I fly, > when most I fear is myself. Or something. I wrote a paper on it in > graduate school, lo these many years ago, but I'm not in the mood to go > dig it out of the basement to doublecheck the reference.) > > > Peg Peg, this is the 21st-Century - one no longer digs literary texts from one's basement; one does a Web search, and then hits the "Copy" icon. Satan's speech is at the beginning of Book IV, as he first arrives on the Earth (in case you aren't familiar with Milton, he has Hell set off in distant interstellar space, and Satan has to travel some considerable distance to our planet). - CMC Me miserable! which way shall I flie Infinite wrauth, and infinite despaire? Which way I flie is Hell; my self am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep Still threatning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n. O then at last relent: is there no place Left for Repentance, none for Pardon left? None left but by submission; and that word DISDAIN forbids me, and my dread of shame Among the spirits beneath, whom I seduc'd With other promises and other vaunts Then to submit, boasting I could subdue Th' Omnipotent. Ay me, they little know How dearly I abide that boast so vaine, Under what torments inwardly I groane; While they adore me on the Throne of Hell, With Diadem and Scepter high advanc'd The lower still I fall, onely Supream In miserie; such joy Ambition findes. But say I could repent and could obtaine By Act of Grace my former state; how soon Would highth recal high thoughts, how soon unsay What feign'd submission swore: ease would recant Vows made in pain, as violent and void. For never can true reconcilement grow Where wounds of deadly hate have peirc'd so deep: Which would but lead me to a worse relapse And heavier fall: so should I purchase deare Short intermission bought with double smart. This knows my punisher; therefore as farr >From granting hee, as I from begging peace: All hope excluded thus, behold in stead Of us out-cast, exil'd, his new delight, Mankind created, and for him this World. So farwel Hope, and with Hope farwel Fear, Farwel Remorse: all Good to me is lost; Evil be thou my Good; by thee at least Divided Empire with Heav'ns King I hold By thee, and more then half perhaps will reigne; As Man ere long, and this new World shall know. http://www.ccel.org/m/milton/lost/paradise_lost.html From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 7 23:40:33 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:40:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Moody thoughts References: <8rnoum+p0nc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005901c030b7$fc9efc40$42c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2932 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Bates" To: Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:10 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Moody thoughts > around wondering if their friend/acquaintance is actually someone > else under Polyjuice, if that friend happens to be acting a bit off. > Polyjuice probably isn't on the top 10 list of reasons. > --Amanda> > > Exactly; Crouch's success at impersonating Moody depended on the same > principle of misdirection that the Muggle version of magic is based > on. People see what they expect to see, and only a very paranoid > person would even let the thought that Moody was not really Moddy > cross his or her mind. It seems that perhaps the only person paranoid enough to have readily detected such a Polyjuice-based disguise was Mad-Eye Moody himself! - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 7 23:43:12 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:43:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: al gore/harry potter buttons References: <8rl008+ft12@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009201c030b8$5b76c540$42c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2933 ----- Original Message ----- From: "ht " To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:52 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: al gore/harry potter buttons > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > There is, as JKR has shown us, a world elsewhere. > > > As someone who bought the British versions of the HP books while in > Stratford ON for the festival, I quite agree! > > Apropos of nothing, did anyone else quite think "Of course! Richard > III!" while reading the scene in GoF where the shadows of the people > Voldemort had killed come out of his wand and circle Harry and > Voldemort, whispering encouragement to Harry and G_d-knows-what to > Voldemort? I sent a post on this to the newsgroup humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 7 23:49:43 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:49:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Tom Riddle References: <8rkr9b+fd84@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00ad01c030b9$447e8840$42c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2934 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 10:31 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Tom Riddle > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > > > As for the History of Magic classes, it always annoyed me in High > > > School that we seldom even got to the twentieth century. I always had > > > the impression it was deliberate...too many issues about which the > > > "judgement of history" was still in doubt. Possibly wizarding school > > > history courses suffer from the same fault. > > > > Well, they *do* still have three years to go. Possibly all the recent things, > > since they involved so much mayhem, are slotted to be covered in later, more > > mature years.....? > > > > --Amanda > Possibly. However don't you think anyone's parents, ie Ministry of > Magic officials, > would be upset about an essay question like "The Ministry's handling of > the Voldemort crisis was totally incompetent. Discuss" ??? Far safer to > stick to the goblin rebellion of whatever. And if we use a Muggles analogy: biogaphies of Adolph Hilter, while clearly indispensible for an understanding of 20th century history, have also at times inspired sundry crackpots, lunatics and fanatics to emulate him. In the Wizarding Community, it may be felt that there are a great number of potential converts to the Dark Arts out there, so the less said about Riddle/Voldy, the better. That would seem the case from the ingrained habit of referring to Voldy as "You-Know Who" - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 8 00:02:56 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 19:02:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Slytherin's evil References: <8qnuv6+hev8@eGroups.com> <39CFB3C4.C3EE96C2@texas.net> <00fe01c02f4e$b7b7bb40$50c64b0c@cq5wu> <39DDE3F8.6E49AEF8@texas.net> Message-ID: <001a01c030bb$1d768ca0$42c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 2935 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" To: Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Slytherin's evil > Caius Marcius wrote: > > > > Ditto. Your examples are all good, but of a different situation, a small-minded > or narrow-focused individual's bad actions ultimately helping to bring about a > greater good. They may or may not be aware of the larger picture at all. This is > what some black radio commentator I heard the other day get lambasted about, > when he was trying to make the point that if his ancestors had not been brought > to America as slaves, he would not today be where he is. Poor guy, nobody seemed > to understand he wasn't saying slavery was good, but that it led to a (for him) > ultimate good. > > Did that make sense? > I think I misunderstood your point, thanks for clarifying it. This is a point that Machiavelli (in The Prince and Discourses) makes at length - that in terms of political strategy, "good" and "evil" actions must be seen as instrumental strategies to a greater overarching "good." I have to run now, but I'll be back with some examples later. - CMC But Pertinax was created emperor [of Rome] against the wishes of the soldiers, who, being accustomed to live licentiously under Commodus, could not endure the honest life to which Pertinax wished to reduce them; thus, having given cause for hatred, to which hatred there was added contempt for his old age, he was overthrown at the very beginning of his administration. And here it should be noted that hatred is acquired as much by good works as by bad ones, therefore, as I said before, a prince wishing to keep his state is very often forced to do evil; for when that body is corrupt whom you think you have need of to maintain yourself- it may be either the people or the soldiers or the nobles- you have to submit to its humours and to gratify them, and then good works will do you harm. - The Prince, Chapter 20 From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 8 00:25:47 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 19:25:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Moody thoughts References: <8rnign+9msr@eGroups.com> <39DF60E3.AE485A36@texas.net> Message-ID: <39DFBF0B.8F6DFF8F@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2936 One thing I've wondered: might the REAL Mad-Eye Moody be the DADA teacher next year? After all, he did agree to take the position. And sure, he was kidnapped and tied up in a trunk for months--but might he be recovered enough after the summer to come back and take the job next year? Or is he more likely to say (esp. after the events at the end of GoF, showing that Voldemort is on the loose again) that upon thinking it over, thanks but no thanks--think I'll retire and work on my golf game instead. It's fun to have a new DADA teacher each year--but it might be interesting to have a bloke around next year who is called Mad-Eye Moody and looks like the Mad-Eye Moody we had last year, but has a totally different personality. Maybe he's soft-spoken and enjoys birdwatching. (On second thought, he'd have to be pretty similar to the persona Barty Crouch Jr affected all year; otherwise it wouldn't be convincing that Barty Crouch Jr fooled Dumbledore all year.) Any guesses as to who/what next year's DADA teacher might be? (I'm hoping for a woman, myself.) Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 8 00:35:04 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 19:35:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort/Richard III/Lucifer References: <8rl008+ft12@eGroups.com> <39DE5F72.3A6559E6@ibm.net> <001801c030b5$7c18fc80$42c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39DFC138.B65A58D@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2937 Caius Marcius wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peg Kerr" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 6:25 PM > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort/Richard III/Lucifer > > > ht wrote: > > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > > > wrote: > > > > There is, as JKR has shown us, a world elsewhere. > > > > > > > As someone who bought the British versions of the HP books while in > > > Stratford ON for the festival, I quite agree! > > > > > > Apropos of nothing, did anyone else quite think "Of course! Richard > > > III!" while reading the scene in GoF where the shadows of the people > > > Voldemort had killed come out of his wand and circle Harry and > > > Voldemort, whispering encouragement to Harry and G_d-knows-what to > > > Voldemort? > > > > Yeah, I love that scene (in both GoF and Richard III). I've already > > posted several messages about the similarity, but I'm too lazy to go > > look them up now. I was pretty pleased when I saw that similarity, > > too. Hurray for liberal arts. > > > > (even further off topic And do you know about the similarity between > > THAT scene in Richard III to the scene in Paradise Lost, where Lucifer > > practically says the same line that Richard III says--where can I fly, > > when most I fear is myself. Or something. I wrote a paper on it in > > graduate school, lo these many years ago, but I'm not in the mood to go > > dig it out of the basement to doublecheck the reference.) > > > > > > Peg > > Peg, this is the 21st-Century - one no longer digs literary texts from one's > basement; one does a Web search, and then hits the "Copy" icon. > > Satan's speech is at the beginning of Book IV, as he first arrives on the > Earth (in case you aren't familiar with Milton, he has Hell set off in > distant interstellar space, and Satan has to travel some considerable > distance to our planet). > > - CMC > > Me miserable! which way shall I flie > Infinite wrauth, and infinite despaire? > Which way I flie is Hell; my self am Hell; etc (snip) Um, Caius, actually if you want to get really technical about it, it's still the 20th century. Don't your remember all those arguments around last December 31 about when the 20th century really ends? ;-) And yes, I know you can find Milton on the Internet. What I was referring to when I spoke about digging around in my basement, was the paper I wrote, which, I assure you, was never posted on the Internet. That's ok, nobody probably wants to read it now anyway, even me! But thanks mucho for posting the quote--that made my point nicely. Peg From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 8 02:57:54 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 02:57:54 -0000 Subject: Voldemort and Riddle In-Reply-To: <39DE624D.7A06FD03@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8ronri+pdms@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2938 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > > Dumbledore doesnt go around telling anyone is because of his > > experience, noted several times in the book, that it can be very, > > very difficult to get people to listen to and understand the truth. > > He probably figures that no one would believe him, or if they did, > > Rita Skeeter would write try to make a scandal out of it. I can see > > the article in the Daily Prophet: > > > > *You-know-who learned all he knows at Hogwarts* > > > > Are our children being taught by the same teachers who taught the > > greatest evil wizard of all times? Is your little witch listening to > > the same History of Magic lectures as Voldemort? Hogwarts > > Headmaster, Albus Dumbledore, could not deny that the evil one was > > once a Hogwarts student, but denies responsibility for his > > training....... > > Good point: Again, for the upteenth time, I refer people to one of my > favorite critical articles about the HP books, the one by Alan Jacobs at > > http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html > > which includes the remark: > > The educational quandary for Albus Dumbledore, then?though it is never > described so overtly?is how to train students not just in the > "technology" of magic but also in the moral discernment necessary to > avoid the continual reproduction of the few great Dark Lords like > Voldemort and their multitudinous followers. > > The fact that Voldemort was trained at Hogwarts is probably something > they leave out of the alumni (oops, we had that discussion already), no, > the former student fundraising/promotional brochures. > > Peg Fascinating article, particularly the points about mythopoeia From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 8 03:04:12 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:04:12 -0000 Subject: Voldemort as History In-Reply-To: <39DE3843.7C2CD1B2@texas.net> Message-ID: <8roo7c+ublt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2939 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > > Of course, it's strange to think that kids in the Wizarding World > > don't know the details about this very important aspect of their own > > history. > > A couple of relevant (I hope) factors, rather jumbled up: Remember this > is a relatively small community. We've, through Harry's experience, > bumped up against the ignorance factor before--things that "everyone > knows," that no one thinks to explain, that everyone just assumes > everyone else knows. Since information dissemination in a smaller > community is often just as much word-of-mouth as formal instruction, > perhaps the events of recent years and their aftermath were so immediate > that people are only now beginning to realize that *some* people will be > around who didn't live it and *don't* remember it. > > When you add the fear factor, I'm not surprised it's not taught yet. > Voldemort's supposed to be *gone,* that's why Harry's famous, the threat > is over. The adults don't want reminding, and the children who were > babies then are only now getting to be old enough to start asking. > > I'm in much the same place with the Vietnam War, that Harry and his > age-group are with the Voldemort Years--I remember "make love not war" > patches on little 1st-grade classmates' coats, hearing that the war was > over, etc. But I was little, didn't know what was going on, and never did > properly understand it until college, when it had finally made it to the > history books. But in all the interim it was spoken of and referred to by > all of society like everyone knew all about it. Maybe only now the > "assumed knowledge" gap is starting to be perceptible. > > Boy, I hope some of that made sense. I still know what I was trying to > say, but I'm not sure I said it. > > --Amanda Amanda, I think you've made an outstanding point. Also, I remember when it was much, much harder to track down accurate information about history. You had to leave the house (often) and go to the library. You couldn't do a web search and get immediate, fairly accurate information on many subjects. The personal computer (imagined by anti-war activists), the internet, the web, have made knowledge much more accessible. I was stunned when I found out that my 16 year old godson had not known his mother was in the Weather Underground (Weathermen), and that most people in their 20s have never heard of it (and you can't find much on a web search either). Yet most people who remember the Vietnam War could tell you what the Weathermen were, and many of them could cite the song the name came from! Very few people remember that the majority of the country was against the Vietnam War......an outpouring of activism that is harder to imagine today (actually HP fandom is close!).... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 8 03:04:25 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:04:25 -0000 Subject: Voldemort as History In-Reply-To: <39DE3843.7C2CD1B2@texas.net> Message-ID: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2940 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > > Of course, it's strange to think that kids in the Wizarding World > > don't know the details about this very important aspect of their own > > history. > > A couple of relevant (I hope) factors, rather jumbled up: Remember this > is a relatively small community. We've, through Harry's experience, > bumped up against the ignorance factor before--things that "everyone > knows," that no one thinks to explain, that everyone just assumes > everyone else knows. Since information dissemination in a smaller > community is often just as much word-of-mouth as formal instruction, > perhaps the events of recent years and their aftermath were so immediate > that people are only now beginning to realize that *some* people will be > around who didn't live it and *don't* remember it. > > When you add the fear factor, I'm not surprised it's not taught yet. > Voldemort's supposed to be *gone,* that's why Harry's famous, the threat > is over. The adults don't want reminding, and the children who were > babies then are only now getting to be old enough to start asking. > > I'm in much the same place with the Vietnam War, that Harry and his > age-group are with the Voldemort Years--I remember "make love not war" > patches on little 1st-grade classmates' coats, hearing that the war was > over, etc. But I was little, didn't know what was going on, and never did > properly understand it until college, when it had finally made it to the > history books. But in all the interim it was spoken of and referred to by > all of society like everyone knew all about it. Maybe only now the > "assumed knowledge" gap is starting to be perceptible. > > Boy, I hope some of that made sense. I still know what I was trying to > say, but I'm not sure I said it. > > --Amanda Amanda, I think you've made an outstanding point. Also, I remember when it was much, much harder to track down accurate information about history. You had to leave the house (often) and go to the library. You couldn't do a web search and get immediate, fairly accurate information on many subjects. The personal computer (imagined by anti-war activists), the internet, the web, have made knowledge much more accessible. I was stunned when I found out that my 16 year old godson had not known his mother was in the Weather Underground (Weathermen), and that most people in their 20s have never heard of it (and you can't find much on a web search either). Yet most people who remember the Vietnam War could tell you what the Weathermen were, and many of them could cite the song the name came from! Very few people remember that the majority of the country was against the Vietnam War......an outpouring of activism that is harder to imagine today (actually HP fandom is close!).... Susan From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 8 04:09:09 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:09:09 -0500 Subject: OT--Weathermen? References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009f01c030dd$83d42d00$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2941 Susan, even though I am 32, I do not recall this name. Perhaps it's because we only got as far as 1950's and the Korean War? (Majored in Socials Studies, with about 4 different Histories in HS... still is "unschooled", lol!) :) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 10:04 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > > Of course, it's strange to think that kids in the Wizarding World > > don't know the details about this very important aspect of their own > > history. > > A couple of relevant (I hope) factors, rather jumbled up: Remember this > is a relatively small community. We've, through Harry's experience, > bumped up against the ignorance factor before--things that "everyone > knows," that no one thinks to explain, that everyone just assumes > everyone else knows. Since information dissemination in a smaller > community is often just as much word-of-mouth as formal instruction, > perhaps the events of recent years and their aftermath were so immediate > that people are only now beginning to realize that *some* people will be > around who didn't live it and *don't* remember it. > > When you add the fear factor, I'm not surprised it's not taught yet. > Voldemort's supposed to be *gone,* that's why Harry's famous, the threat > is over. The adults don't want reminding, and the children who were > babies then are only now getting to be old enough to start asking. > > I'm in much the same place with the Vietnam War, that Harry and his > age-group are with the Voldemort Years--I remember "make love not war" > patches on little 1st-grade classmates' coats, hearing that the war was > over, etc. But I was little, didn't know what was going on, and never did > properly understand it until college, when it had finally made it to the > history books. But in all the interim it was spoken of and referred to by > all of society like everyone knew all about it. Maybe only now the > "assumed knowledge" gap is starting to be perceptible. > > Boy, I hope some of that made sense. I still know what I was trying to > say, but I'm not sure I said it. > > --Amanda Amanda, I think you've made an outstanding point. Also, I remember when it was much, much harder to track down accurate information about history. You had to leave the house (often) and go to the library. You couldn't do a web search and get immediate, fairly accurate information on many subjects. The personal computer (imagined by anti-war activists), the internet, the web, have made knowledge much more accessible. I was stunned when I found out that my 16 year old godson had not known his mother was in the Weather Underground (Weathermen), and that most people in their 20s have never heard of it (and you can't find much on a web search either). Yet most people who remember the Vietnam War could tell you what the Weathermen were, and many of them could cite the song the name came from! Very few people remember that the majority of the country was against the Vietnam War......an outpouring of activism that is harder to imagine today (actually HP fandom is close!).... Susan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 8 03:13:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:13:04 -0000 Subject: red hair/is Dumbledore Lily's grandfather? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rooo0+5ia0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2942 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Amanda Lewanski > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 3:38 AM > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] red hair/is Dumbledore Lily's grandfather? > > > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Lily is revealed to have dark red hair (CoS Mirror of Erised) > > Dumbledore has auburn hair (CoS, Riddle's memories) > > > > Ha! Perhaps Harry is the heir of Dumbledore (never mind > > these off the wall theories that Voldmort is related to Harry) > > > > AND...what about the Weasleys? Might Lily and/or Dumbledore > > be related to THEM? > > But the Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives. That's stated > several times, by lots of different sources. > > --Amanda > > nevermind that, its such a good idea that Dumbledore might be Harry's g/grandfather. someone good in his corner! poor harry. > > storm > > Oh, well, maybe Dumbledore is related to the Weasleys, then..... From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 8 03:16:19 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:16:19 -0000 Subject: Playstation and relationships In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8roou3+3frh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2943 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Steve wrote: "There's a page on the Harry Potter Lexicon which talks about > some of the day vs. date questions as well as the problems with years > (PlayStations were invented when?) in the series." > > Is the bit about playstation's a question or comment? If it is a question to > the group then it is worth reading message 714 and is replies. > > I wrote: "Also the wrong person tag could be an indication that he was > chasing after her and never got her. I could also argue that JKR said that > they would end up with the wrong people in book 4. Harry ended up with > Pavarti in book 4 and not Cho. So this could also indicate that Harry/Cho is > still a possibility." > > Penny replied: "Okay. As long as I'm free to use the same basic logic and > say that Hermione is the "wrong" person for Ron since Ron fell for her in > Book 4 (even though he didn't know or acknowledge it). " > > Continuing with my logic, IMHO, would mean that Padma or Fleur was the wrong > person for Ron. This is something we are always going to have arguments and > disagree on. Even if JKR settles the debate then some of us will still say > the pairings are wrong! That is part of the reason I go for some of the more > wacky options. > > Neil wrote: "One or other or both of these could be true. I'm swinging more > towards > Harry-Hermione-post-Hogwarts these days [thanks Lori]," > > Penny replied: "Wow! :--)" > > Lori has swayed many, but some of these still think it would require Ron > dying. I for one only support the partnership only if Ron is not a factor in > their lives anymore. > > Neil wrote: "but I still favour the idea that they'll all three remain just > best friends and end up with other partners." > > Penny replied: "At Hogwarts? If so -- that might be preferable (not likely > given Ron's interest in Hermione but preferable perhaps). Post- Hogwarts -- > well, everyone knows my preference." > > But it is still possible that, even after Ron has admitted his feeling for > Hermione (and maybe the reverse, or Hermione for Harry, etc...), that the > three just remain friends. > > Simon Or what about a menage a trois? Then we could all have our cake and eat it too From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 8 03:16:31 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:16:31 -0000 Subject: Playstation and relationships In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8roouf+aj8c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2944 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Steve wrote: "There's a page on the Harry Potter Lexicon which talks about > some of the day vs. date questions as well as the problems with years > (PlayStations were invented when?) in the series." > > Is the bit about playstation's a question or comment? If it is a question to > the group then it is worth reading message 714 and is replies. > > I wrote: "Also the wrong person tag could be an indication that he was > chasing after her and never got her. I could also argue that JKR said that > they would end up with the wrong people in book 4. Harry ended up with > Pavarti in book 4 and not Cho. So this could also indicate that Harry/Cho is > still a possibility." > > Penny replied: "Okay. As long as I'm free to use the same basic logic and > say that Hermione is the "wrong" person for Ron since Ron fell for her in > Book 4 (even though he didn't know or acknowledge it). " > > Continuing with my logic, IMHO, would mean that Padma or Fleur was the wrong > person for Ron. This is something we are always going to have arguments and > disagree on. Even if JKR settles the debate then some of us will still say > the pairings are wrong! That is part of the reason I go for some of the more > wacky options. > > Neil wrote: "One or other or both of these could be true. I'm swinging more > towards > Harry-Hermione-post-Hogwarts these days [thanks Lori]," > > Penny replied: "Wow! :--)" > > Lori has swayed many, but some of these still think it would require Ron > dying. I for one only support the partnership only if Ron is not a factor in > their lives anymore. > > Neil wrote: "but I still favour the idea that they'll all three remain just > best friends and end up with other partners." > > Penny replied: "At Hogwarts? If so -- that might be preferable (not likely > given Ron's interest in Hermione but preferable perhaps). Post- Hogwarts -- > well, everyone knows my preference." > > But it is still possible that, even after Ron has admitted his feeling for > Hermione (and maybe the reverse, or Hermione for Harry, etc...), that the > three just remain friends. > > Simon Or what about a menage a trois? Then we could all have our cake and eat it too From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 8 03:34:21 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:34:21 -0000 Subject: Moody thoughts In-Reply-To: <39DFBF0B.8F6DFF8F@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8ropvt+p01q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2945 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > Any guesses as to who/what next year's DADA teacher might be? (I'm hoping for a woman, myself.) > > Peg I vote for Bill Weasley...he's a curse breaker, soo cool, and there would be lots of dramatic possibilities for conflicts with his siblings plus possible romance if Fleur comes back too. She could teach care of magical creatures if Hagrid is still off on his giant mission.But I agree a woman DADA would be cool, too. Pippin From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 8 03:39:35 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:39:35 -0000 Subject: OT--Weathermen? very OT brief In-Reply-To: <009f01c030dd$83d42d00$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8roq9n+euo6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2946 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > Susan, > even though I am 32, I do not recall this name. Perhaps it's because we only got as far as 1950's and the Korean War? (Majored in Socials Studies, with about 4 different Histories in HS... still is "unschooled", lol!) > > :) > Dee > They were an offshoot of SDS (Students for a Democratic Society) who organized campuses throughout the country against the war. They embraced the idea of violent revolution and blew up many buildings. Many of the Weathermen were on the FBI's most wanted list for years. Three of them died in a townhouse in Manhattan when the bombs they were making malfunctioned. The song by Bob Dylan is Subterranean Homesick Blues and it says "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." More information could be found by searching for SDS probably.. From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 8 03:41:52 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 03:41:52 -0000 Subject: Moody thoughts In-Reply-To: <39DFBF0B.8F6DFF8F@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8roqe0+bo0a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2947 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > It's fun to have a new DADA teacher each year--but it might be interesting to have a bloke around next year who is called Mad-Eye Moody and looks like the Mad-Eye Moody we had last year, but has a totally different personality. Maybe he's soft-spoken and enjoys birdwatching. > > (On second thought, he'd have to be pretty similar to the persona Barty Crouch Jr affected all year; otherwise it wouldn't be convincing that Barty Crouch Jr fooled Dumbledore all year.) I'm wondering if Dumbledore really didn't fool himself...maybe Crouch's Moody was more like the old Moody, the one we met in the Penseive, than the real, mentally-damaged Moody was capable of being. It could Dumbledore was in denial about the real Moody's paranoia and wanted to believe his friend had recovered. Does this make any sense? Pippin From bkretsch at spamcop.net Sun Oct 8 06:43:09 2000 From: bkretsch at spamcop.net (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 06:43:09 -0000 Subject: Playstation and relationships In-Reply-To: <8roou3+3frh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rp51t+v6h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2948 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" > wrote: > > But it is still possible that, even after Ron has admitted > > his feeling for Hermione (and maybe the reverse, or Hermione > > for Harry, etc...), that the three just remain friends. > > > > Simon > > > Or what about a menage a trois? Then we could all have our cake > and eat it too LOL! Well there ya go, Susan's got it all solved! Hehehee.... Bonnie From bkretsch at spamcop.net Sun Oct 8 07:02:52 2000 From: bkretsch at spamcop.net (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 07:02:52 -0000 Subject: Moody thoughts In-Reply-To: <39DFBF0B.8F6DFF8F@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8rp66s+mg6v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2949 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > One thing I've wondered: might the REAL Mad-Eye Moody be the > DADA teacher next year? > Or is he more likely to say (esp. after the events at the > end of GoF, showing that Voldemort is on the loose again) that > upon thinking it over, thanks but no thanks--think I'll retire > and work on my golf game instead. I have two thoughts on where Moody will go for book 5. I think that Moody's paranoia will never let him be content to continue retirement and work on his golf game (though it's a funny image). I think that he would go nuts if he tried not to think about it, so he could either: 1) Take up his old job and become and Auror again, but this time for Dumbledore and not the ministry (ya know, sorta like what Dumbledore has in mind for the 'old gang' to do). or if he was not feeling up to that as of yet.... 2) Teach at Hogwarts where he can be near Dumbledore and be as safe as it is possible to be in a world where Voldemort is returning. After all, at the same time, he'd get a chance to train and inspire a new set of students to take up the task of working against the forces of evil and darkness in the magical world. After all, being near Albus Dumbledore is what saved him before and it is generally known to be the safest place to be if Voldemort or Death-eaters are after you. :o) > Any guesses as to who/what next year's DADA teacher might be? > (I'm hoping for a woman, myself.) > > Peg My bets are on Moody for next year. However, I would LOVE there to be a female DADA teacher in the future. Some folks have meshed this wish with a rumor (kinda unreliable one at that, since I know it's source, but it still would be cool as heck) that Snape will fall in love in book #7. The resulting theory is that Snape will fall in love with a female DADA teacher that comes to Hogwarts in Harry's 7th year. I, for one, would LOVE to see that! Snape in love? A neat, complicated, young female adult character who can help inspire a redemptive pattern in Snape? That would be sooo great.... Well here's to wishing. Bonnie P.S. I'm gonna be gone (ie incommunicado) for the next week, see you all next weekend! From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sun Oct 8 09:33:06 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:33:06 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ravenclaw and Gryffindor References: <20001005212549.612.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01c0310a$c9537de0$fb8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2950 > --- foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > > Don't you think it odd that Gryffindor and Ravenclaw don't have any > > classes together? At least in Harry's year. > > Pippin > > I've wondered the same thing. Since I identify with Ravenclaw more than > any other house (hence, my Yahoo ID), I'd love to get to know some of the > Ravenclaw students better. Maybe we'll see them more as the students go > more into electives of their fields (unless the classes are still divided > by house). > > Melanie (who is wickedly picturing Hermione trying to stay on top in a > class full of Ravenclaws. Think they'd give her a run for her money?) On the other hand, I think Hermione's top marks in every subject status applies to the whole year and not just Gryffindor. So as far as the Ravenclaws in her year go, she probably is more than capable of holding her own. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sun Oct 8 10:02:20 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:02:20 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Talented Mr. Riddle References: <8rgejk+i7l5@eGroups.com> <39DBC441.74FB28E2@alumni.upenn.edu> <000a01c02f48$e0aa93c0$50c64b0c@cq5wu> <39DDBD8F.96315B67@ibm.net> Message-ID: <004101c0310e$dc5476c0$fb8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2951 > Good point (and your last line made me laugh). Well, Tom Riddle had come up > with his nome de evil at Hogwarts, although I don't think he told anyone the > name while he was there. I don't think he did much to establish an adult > identity as Tom Riddle. Think about it: no credit rating. Probably no record > of marriage or owning a home. As far as his victims knew, he arrived on the > scene, fully blown, as Lord Voldemort. Not much for newspaper reporters (or > historians) to go on) if he kept the two identities separate and switched from > one to the other upon graduation (particularly if he laid mostly low for several > years in between--perhaps off in Transylvania comparing notes with the > vampires?) Or maybe very few people knew that Voldy was Tom Riddle, because Tom Riddle was dead. I wouldn't put it past Voldemort to fake his own death and leave Tom Riddle behind him for good, before fleeing somewhere very remote to study the Dark Arts. Jinx From ben.leigh at cwcom.net Sun Oct 8 09:56:56 2000 From: ben.leigh at cwcom.net (Ben Leigh) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:56:56 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks References: <970976455.17966@egroups.com> Message-ID: <001901c0310e$189699c0$0200a8c0@jonnyold> No: HPFGUIDX 2952 Hello everyone! My name is Ben and I'm 25 years of age. I am a huge Harry Potter fan and have been on some other Harry Potter lists. The stuff on this list is interesting! I'd going back to lurk mode so i can see what sort of things are discussed here before jumping in. Ben From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sun Oct 8 10:14:13 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:14:13 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JKR's Poetic License References: <8rl1og+fn1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006801c03110$83c46d60$fb8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 2953 > I think you've hit the nail on the head there Brooks. > I ran into the same problem trying to ascertain the day > of James and Lily's deaths. > > The day Voldemort found the Potters was described both > as Halloween (Hagrid says this to Harry in SS/PS Chapter > 3, if I recall correctly) and Monday (because the day > Vernon went to work and all that celebrating happened > was on a Tuesday) the week before Guy Fawkes Day (Thurs. > Nov. 5th) in 1981. > > However, Halloween fell on a Saturday in 1981 and in > order for Guy Fawkes Day to be next week, the Monday > they died would have to have been the 26th of October > not the Monday nearest Halloween (the 2nd). > > My conclusion is that she did this for Dramatic effect. > She wanted to show Vernon Dursley at work (not on a > Sunday) and she wanted the Potters to die on Halloween. > She didn't check the calender, or if she did she just > said, ah well, no one will actually be insane enough > to go check that anyway. Or could be that the celebrations were so riotous they were still going on on Monday. Or that the news took 24 hours to spread. Jinx From sungod at themail.com Sun Oct 8 13:15:54 2000 From: sungod at themail.com (sungod at themail.com) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 13:15:54 -0000 Subject: Great Wallpaper, Reviews and Recommendations Message-ID: <8rps2a+mqma@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2954 Hi There Great new stuff at Potter's Domain! We have new wallpaper of the Hogwarts Express made from a very close photograph actually showing the nameplate on the front of the train so there is no dispute as to which train it is. Also reviews of the four books to date and reviews and recommendations of books to read while we all wait for Book 5 to be released. AND .... A great new desktop theme called DragonArt which is not about HP but is so great that you can just imagine Hagrid inside the castle waiting for his latest pet to arrive. Yours faithfully Sungod http://pottersdomain.terrashare.com From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 8 14:03:29 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 10:03:29 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 2955 Welcome, Ben! I think you'll like it here. It's the nicest bunch I've ever "known" on the web. The conversation can get extremely animated, but we all respect each others' opinions. voicelady -------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone! My name is Ben and I'm 25 years of age. I am a huge Harry Potter fan and have been on some other Harry Potter lists. The stuff on this list is interesting! I'd going back to lurk mode so i can see what sort of things are discussed here before jumping in. Ben To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 8 14:40:23 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 07:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks Message-ID: <20001008144023.16318.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2956 I, too, am new. I've been on this list for about two weeks now, but have been lurking to get the feel of the group. You just never know if a group is a group of nice friendly (redundant, I know) people, or if they're a bunch of jerks just ready to tear the throats out of someone because they disgree with what the "norm" should think (yes, I've been part of those groups, but left quickly). My name is Anake, and I am 18 years old. I have to admit that I am a new HP fan, but I am currently reading the 4th book. Virtually yours, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 8 14:50:42 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 14:50:42 -0000 Subject: JKR's Poetic License In-Reply-To: <006801c03110$83c46d60$fb8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8rq1k2+ple@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2957 After all this trying to correlate the phases of the moon with the days of the week and NHN's last meal and the number of students per class/year/quidditch match... Is anyone else reminded of the following line? "..wizards count differently than other people." J.R.R Tolkien, The Hobbit Pippin From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 8 14:53:22 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 10:53:22 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks References: Message-ID: <000901c03137$82450ea0$3362143f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2958 Hi, Ben My name is Donna Rae and I'm new to the list also. I've been lurking for about two weeks but really been enjoying all the discussions. I've read all four books, but after reading all the different discussions, I found that most of my questions about the books have been covered in the archive, which I visit regularly. This is a great group where everyone has an opinion and everyone else respects that opinion. I'm impressed. I've just started listening to the cassettes and find them to be wonderful. Is there any advantage to the CDs over the cassettes? I could only get the first two books and they only had cassettes at the bookstore. I know that the CDs cost much more, can anyone tell me the difference between the two media? Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:03 AM Subject: Re:Re: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks Welcome, Ben! I think you'll like it here. It's the nicest bunch I've ever "known" on the web. The conversation can get extremely animated, but we all respect each others' opinions. voicelady -------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone! My name is Ben and I'm 25 years of age. I am a huge Harry Potter fan and have been on some other Harry Potter lists. The stuff on this list is interesting! I'd going back to lurk mode so i can see what sort of things are discussed here before jumping in. Ben To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 8 15:08:11 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:08:11 -0000 Subject: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <39DF6045.5D713D8B@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rq2kr+ks76@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2959 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > [Barty Crouch, Jr] told his story, in great detail and under very > strong Veritaserum, to Dumbledore, Snape, McGonagall, and Harry. > He was indeed a very faithful servant. For all that Moody/Crouch said "There's nothing I hate more than a Death Eater who walked free" and mouthed off about disloyal followers who denied their lord just to avoid Azkaban, he himself had *loudly* denied his lord ("Father! I'm innocent! I didn't do it!") in an unsuccessful effort to avoid Azkaban. (Perhaps the given name should have been Peter rather than Bartemius, as Peter denied *his* lord three times before cock crow -- does anyone have any ideas on the meaning of the name Bartemius?) Two trains of thought that leave from this station have to do with hypocrisy. One is the gutter-psychological theory of projection, in which, whenever person X criticizes person Y for bad behaviour A, someones retorts to person X that he/she is only saying that because of 'denial' of his/her own A. Another is whether the Lord of Lies really has any objection to his followers lying. A related thought is that, throughout the story, Crouch Sr. is criticized for his hardness, such as ending his own son to Azkaban, sending Sirius to Azkabab without trial, authorizing Aurors to kill 'suspects' without the bother of planting a drop gun on them and falsely testifying that the killing was in self-defense like Muggle police officers do (apologies to any honest cop reading this post, but I live in Los Angeles and cannot imagine why *anyone* was surprised by the so-called Rampart scandal: talk about old news!). But the harm that we actually *see* in this story was caused by Crouch Sr's moment of *softness*. If he hadn't yielded to his wife begging him to most illegally help a convicted felon escape from prison, V couldn't have kidnapped Harry from Hogwarts, Cedric wouldn't be dead, and for that matter, Crouch Sr wouldn't be dead. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 8 16:23:40 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:23:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat!!!! References: Message-ID: <001c01c03144$1fac5a20$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2960 Ben, and for others who don't know, there is a chat every Sunday in the Yahoo-club room @ 3pm Eastern! Many of us use cheetachat to annoy the others with our neat fading text, and saving of the loco things we all say (or the macros we create, lol). Usually the subjects range from HP to subjects based on HP (like the geography of Europe as it relates to the HP-world that Rita helped us with some chats back). If you miss the chat, don't worry! There's a script from it posted weekly over at Chatscripts (see LINKS section). It usually lasts until the last person leaves or approx. 5.30. Come and see! Dee 'for cheetachat : www.cheetachat.com ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 9:03 AM Subject: Re:Re: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks Welcome, Ben! I think you'll like it here. It's the nicest bunch I've ever "known" on the web. The conversation can get extremely animated, but we all respect each others' opinions. voicelady -------------------------------------------------------------- Hello everyone! My name is Ben and I'm 25 years of age. I am a huge Harry Potter fan and have been on some other Harry Potter lists. The stuff on this list is interesting! I'd going back to lurk mode so i can see what sort of things are discussed here before jumping in. Ben To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 8 16:48:05 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 11:48:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks References: <000901c03137$82450ea0$3362143f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <39E0A544.ACAAF61C@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2961 Donna Rae wrote: > I've just started listening to the cassettes and find them to be wonderful. Is there any advantage to the CDs over the cassettes? I could only get the first two books and they only had cassettes at the bookstore. I know that the CDs cost much more, can anyone tell me the difference between the two media? Welcome to you, and to all the other newcomers. I believe that the recording is exactly the same, whether you get it on CDs or cassettes. I simply like the ease of CDs, because I can "skip" immediately to one of about 15 tracks on each CD to listen to a favorite part (instead of rewinding/fast forwarding a tape and trying to estimate where the part is I'm trying to find). It also depends, I suppose on where you want to play it. Do you have a CD player or a tape player in your car? From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Oct 8 18:01:32 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 18:01:32 -0000 Subject: Literal interpretations? Message-ID: <8rqcps+p6ht@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2962 Just to throw another monkey wrench into the dating business: has anyone considered the effect of the Julian/Gregorian calendar change on some of the back-dating that has been done? Over here in the colonies, the calendar changed in the year 1752. In that year 11 days were dropped from September, and New Years Day changed from March 25 to January 1. This makes it difficult to figure out what the 500th "Anniversary" of Nick's execution actually refers to -- is it exactly 365.25 X 500 days, or just the same calendar date, which could be off by at least 11 days from exactly 500 years? (Eastern Orthodox churches still follow the old calendar.) Another thing that has been bugging me is the too-literal interpretation of offhand statements in the books. For example, Hagrid says that *all* the wizards who have turned out bad have come from Slitherin (sorry, I couldn't find the exact quote). Is that to be taken literally? If Hagrid were from Texas (like myself) I'd have to take this statement with a grain of salt, since we Texans are inclined to exaggerate *just a tad* for effect. Different nationalities have reputations for exaggeration: the Irish are widely known for "blarney," but the Scots and Germans are considered more strait-laced. Do the people from rural south-west England (presumably where Hagrid is from) have a reputation for hyperbole? If so, then we should not look only to Slitherin for potential Death Eaters. -Jim Flanagan "When you're in Odessa, Texas, check out The World's Largest Jackrabbit." From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 8 18:12:22 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:12:22 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks References: <000901c03137$82450ea0$3362143f@donnadozier> <39E0A544.ACAAF61C@ibm.net> Message-ID: <003501c03153$4eb1dde0$af9c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2963 Well, Peg, my car was inherited from my mother who passed away last year, and there is neither a cassette or CD player (feeling a little deprived). Being a technical writer (dull and dry is my world), I usually listen to CDs while working but I also have a little cassette player with earphones that I can bring in. I was looking on amazon.com and think I'll probably order the last two books on CD rather than cassette just to make a comparison. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks Donna Rae wrote: > I've just started listening to the cassettes and find them to be wonderful. Is there any advantage to the CDs over the cassettes? I could only get the first two books and they only had cassettes at the bookstore. I know that the CDs cost much more, can anyone tell me the difference between the two media? Welcome to you, and to all the other newcomers. I believe that the recording is exactly the same, whether you get it on CDs or cassettes. I simply like the ease of CDs, because I can "skip" immediately to one of about 15 tracks on each CD to listen to a favorite part (instead of rewinding/fast forwarding a tape and trying to estimate where the part is I'm trying to find). It also depends, I suppose on where you want to play it. Do you have a CD player or a tape player in your car? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 8 18:36:03 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 13:36:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Literal interpretations? References: <8rqcps+p6ht@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E0BE92.4688466@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2964 Hi -- Jim Flanagan wrote: > "When you're in Odessa, Texas, check out The World's Largest > Jackrabbit." Okay, I'm going to allow myself a bit of OT license here because I absolutely positively *must* ask -- are you *from* Odessa, Jim? I grew up there, and I've never run into another Odessan in cyberspace. BTW, my husband thinks that jackrabbit is about the weirdest damn thing he's ever seen. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 8 18:42:36 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 13:42:36 -0500 Subject: Cassettes v. CDs References: <000901c03137$82450ea0$3362143f@donnadozier> <39E0A544.ACAAF61C@ibm.net> <003501c03153$4eb1dde0$af9c0b3f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <39E0C01C.2D97376E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2965 Hi -- Donna -- I ended up with both cassettes & CDs. I bought SS on cassettes at Sam's Club to see if I liked the audio versions. I did!! Went back & eventually bought CoS & PoA on cassettes as well. Same great Sam's price of $15 a set. Then, I started loaning them out to friends & family. I only have a tape player in my car, but am expecting to get a new vehicle in the next year & decided it would have a CD player so I wanted to gradually acquire the CDs. I have them all except SS now (gifts). I play the CDs on my walkman & in the house. The CDs will hold up *much* better than the cassettes -- my cassettes are clearly the worse for wear (having been loaned to so many different people & played so many times). That might be a consideration to take into account. Penny From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 8 18:50:11 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 14:50:11 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cassettes v. CDs References: <000901c03137$82450ea0$3362143f@donnadozier> <39E0A544.ACAAF61C@ibm.net> <003501c03153$4eb1dde0$af9c0b3f@donnadozier> <39E0C01C.2D97376E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <007b01c03158$99099900$af9c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2966 Oh, yeah, that's a consideration. I just talked to my daughter and she has GoF on CD and told me that each CD has a picture from the book on it. I think I'll probably get the CDs because they do hold up much better. My next car will definitely have a CD. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 2:42 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cassettes v. CDs Hi -- Donna -- I ended up with both cassettes & CDs. I bought SS on cassettes at Sam's Club to see if I liked the audio versions. I did!! Went back & eventually bought CoS & PoA on cassettes as well. Same great Sam's price of $15 a set. Then, I started loaning them out to friends & family. I only have a tape player in my car, but am expecting to get a new vehicle in the next year & decided it would have a CD player so I wanted to gradually acquire the CDs. I have them all except SS now (gifts). I play the CDs on my walkman & in the house. The CDs will hold up *much* better than the cassettes -- my cassettes are clearly the worse for wear (having been loaned to so many different people & played so many times). That might be a consideration to take into account. Penny To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 8 19:31:03 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 14:31:03 -0500 Subject: Harry as Pop Icon Message-ID: <39E0CB77.5575A7D1@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2967 Hi -- There was a cover story on HP as a pop icon in the Lifestyle section of the Houston paper this morning. Interesting read (and I've *got* to contact some of the professors who were quoted as saying they disagreed with the NY Times & said the books were read by huge #s of adults -- ). http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/features/691381 Penny From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sun Oct 8 19:41:39 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:41:39 -0000 Subject: Glad to find this site Message-ID: <8rqilj+76ad@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2968 Hi! I am Martha and as you can tell I am new. I am glad to find an all adult Harry Potter site. I guess we are going chapter by chapter which will be hard for me as I have sooooo many theories about sooooo many things and would love to hear everyone else's. I absolutely LOVE Snape and always have. So I can't wait to discuss him. I think he is going to be such a big part of the story later on. I too think Harry is a descendant of Gryffindor. Now Lily.....I am just not sure about. Hopefully we will learn more of her in book 5. Anyway, can't wait to get started. Martha From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 8 20:06:11 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:06:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Weathermen? References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> <009f01c030dd$83d42d00$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39E0D3B2.81D338BB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2969 Denise Rogers wrote: > Susan, > even though I am 32, I do not recall this name. Perhaps it's because we only got as far as 1950's and the Korean War? (Majored in Socials Studies, with about 4 different Histories in HS... still is "unschooled", lol!) Dee, don't feel bad. I'm 36 and don't recall ever hearing the term "weatherman." Seems like we get taught selective history, and not just in history classes---case in point, my husband was in the first graduating class of the University of California at Irvine (okay, the second, but the first was two people), and remembers when it was under construction. When we were out visiting in California, we went to see UofI and I read a couple of histories, detailing the architecture, etc., etc. But nowhere does it say what he remembers was one of the arguing factors for the layout of the buildings--that this was one of the first universities specifically laid out for riot control. All the original main buildings are in a loose circle around a central area, with no other natural gathering place designed in, so that if a riot or uncontrolled gathering began, it could be quickly brought under control by sealing the spaces between the buildings. A product of its time, the 1960s (he graduated in 1967 or 68, I believe), but not a fact trumpeted anywhere today. --Amanda, lover of trivia From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 8 20:14:31 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:14:31 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Don't hold back!/Snape Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001008201431.0087b53c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 2970 At 19:41 10/08/2000 -0000, Martha wrote: >Hi! I am Martha and as you can tell I am new. I am glad to find an >all adult Harry Potter site. I guess we are going chapter by chapter >which will be hard for me as I have sooooo many theories about sooooo >many things and would love to hear everyone else's. We are picking our way through the GoF chapters and characters week by week, but people discuss what they like, as and when they like, so fire away with those theories, Martha. Snape is probably the *most* discussed HP character and I'm working on an FAQ summarising some of the things we've discussed over the past several months (I say 'working on' - it's becoming a bit of daunting prospect). There's a 'scheduled' discussion on Snape early next year... but please don't hold it all in until then - you might burst! Great to have all these new people popping up - welcome all. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 8 20:11:32 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:11:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Moody thoughts References: <8rp66s+mg6v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E0D4F4.A9622172@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2971 Bonnie Kretschmer wrote: > I, for one, would LOVE to see that! Snape in love? A neat, > complicated, young female adult character who can help inspire > a redemptive pattern in Snape? That would be sooo great.... > Well here's to wishing. Oh, but I see such tragic possibilities, too....Snape's no longer in a position, with the return of Voldemort, to be free to love anyone (by which I mean to expose them to potential danger by acknowledging a relationship or even feelings). In my opinion, Snape clearly has some less-than-safe role to play with the Death Eaters. What a lousy time to find the love of your life. So while Snape may be launched into a redemptive pattern (great term), I don't think he'll find fulfillment this time either (I am of the loved-Lily school). At least, if he denies love himself this time, instead of being dumped, it's a bit more noble. And where did you get hold of the rumor that he falls in love, again? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 8 20:15:43 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:15:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks References: <20001008144023.16318.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39E0D5EF.4DF54AD2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2972 Anake wrote: > My name is Anake, and I am 18 years old. I have to admit that I am a new HP fan, > but I am currently reading the 4th book. Greetings Anake, and Ben, too! I, too, have been very pleasantly surprised by the maturity and wit on this list. I think you'll enjoy it. And warnings to Anake--our modus operandi has been that most of us have read Book 4, so we pretty much have stopped posting "spoiler" warnings on details of the ending. You might want to be careful of messages that might spoil it for you until you're done. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 8 20:18:52 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:18:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks References: <000901c03137$82450ea0$3362143f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <39E0D6AC.9E9A1DE2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2973 Donna Rae wrote: > I've just started listening to the cassettes and find them to be wonderful. Is there any advantage to the CDs over the cassettes? I could only get the first two books and they only had cassettes at the bookstore. I know that the CDs cost much more, can anyone tell me the difference between the two media? Well, the chances of a CD surviving an encounter with a toddler are much, much higher than those for a cassette.... --Amanda, who's spent her share of time rewinding cassettes with a pencil and many muttered swear words From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 8 20:25:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:25:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Literal interpretations? References: <8rqcps+p6ht@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E0D833.4DD37D09@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2974 Jim Flanagan wrote: > If Hagrid were from Texas (like myself) I'd have > to take this statement with a grain of salt, since we Texans are > inclined to exaggerate *just a tad* for effect. No, none of us ever, ever exaggerate at all. > Different > nationalities have reputations for exaggeration: the Irish are widely > known for "blarney," but the Scots and Germans are considered more > strait-laced. Do the people from rural south-west England (presumably > where Hagrid is from) have a reputation for hyperbole? If so, then > we should not look only to Slitherin for potential Death Eaters. I think that in Hagrid's case, he's a simple soul. By that I mean childlike in his view, very trusting and still very black-and-white, although he has an undeniable wisdom and depth. But yes, I think any analysis of the offhand comments needs to take context and mood of the speaker into account as well; not everyone pauses to ensure the absolute literal truth of their statements in every situation. Not even me, paragon of virtue that I am /SIZZLE/ *ahem* lightning-fried semi-paragon that I am. I think Slytherin's rep for evil wizards comes from the fact that their "alpha" characteristic is ambition, which more easily leads one into evil than the other Houses' guiding characteristics. > "When you're in Odessa, Texas, check out The World's Largest > Jackrabbit." Might as well, there's nothing else to do...... Go Permian! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 8 20:28:15 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:28:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Glad to find this site References: <8rqilj+76ad@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E0D8DE.7B58A9DB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2975 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > I absolutely LOVE Snape and always have. So I can't wait to discuss > him. I think he is going to be such a big part of the story later on. Yaaaay! I'm a Snape fan, myself. He's intricate, and I think he has a way interesting history which will come to light and influence lots more than himself in future events. And, closet romantic that I am, I am of the "he was in love with Lily" school of thought. Jump right in, always want more Snape stuff. --Amanda From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 8 20:45:17 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:45:17 -0500 Subject: Texas --- OT; Gregorian Calendar; Hagrid & Generalization References: <8rqcps+p6ht@eGroups.com> <39E0D833.4DD37D09@texas.net> Message-ID: <39E0DCDD.309CD951@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2976 Hi Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > "When you're in Odessa, Texas, check out The World's Largest > > Jackrabbit." > > Might as well, there's nothing else to do...... Ain't that the truth! > Go Permian! M-O-J-O!!!! (Class of '84 -- sorry, I'm actually wearing all black today & couldn't resist). Back to Jim's original post so as to not completely take advantage of list-mom status to be completely & irrelevantly OT today -- the Gregorian calendar is definitely something that should be considered. But, my guess is that JKR didn't consult *any* calendars when she was writing these books. There are too many instances where we're pretty sure what the "date" should be, but things don't quite match up when you look at a real calendar from the year(s) in question. I would bet that Nearly Headless Nick's deathday was intended to be a fairly simple count back 500 yrs from the date in question (without reference to the Gregorian calender issue). Same thing with the Playstation question from a few wks ago -- I'd bet that JKR just didn't take the time to figure out *exactly* when playstations were widely available. She just knew generally. I think Hagrid's statement was probably a broad generalization. I really don't buy that Sirius (who, at the time of Hagrid's statement, was "supposed" to be a dark wizard) and Wormtail (who really was a dark wizard) were Slytherins. While it's possible, it seems unlikely that James & Lupin were also Slytherins. We've talked alot in the past about whether they might have been from more than 1 House, but I'm not sure I believe that either. So . . . all in all, I'd guess that Hagrid is just prone to making general statements without considering specific exceptions. Penny (who's overwhelmingly thrilled to no longer be living in Odessa) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 8 20:50:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:50:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rq2kr+ks76@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E0DDF8.D601C0EA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2977 Rita Winston wrote: > For all that Moody/Crouch said "There's nothing I hate more than a > Death Eater who walked free" and mouthed off about disloyal followers > who denied their lord just to avoid Azkaban, he himself had *loudly* > denied his lord ("Father! I'm innocent! I didn't do it!") in an > unsuccessful effort to avoid Azkaban. I thought that he was not so much avoiding Azkaban, as trying to stay free. He knew that he and the other two were the only "active" Death Eaters left, and he wanted to be able to keep searching for his master. > (Perhaps the given name should > have been Peter rather than Bartemius, as Peter denied *his* lord > three times before cock crow -- does anyone have any ideas on the > meaning of the name Bartemius?) > > Another is whether the Lord of Lies really has any objection to his > followers lying. Probably not, so long as the ultimate objective is reached. He'd object to them lying to *him,* I'm sure, but to others? Nah. > But the harm that we actually *see* in this story was caused by > Crouch Sr's moment of *softness*. If he hadn't yielded to his > wife begging him to most illegally help a convicted felon escape from > prison, V couldn't have kidnapped Harry from Hogwarts, Cedric > wouldn't be dead, and for that matter, Crouch Sr wouldn't be dead. Yeah, I see a lot of "appearances are deceiving" stuff in these books, and this is another example. What appears stern and unforgiving to the outside observer is justice to one who knows all the facts. Sirius had no idea of the evidence against Barty Jr., and we as readers are allowed, along with our Harry, Hermione, and Ron, to condemn Barty Sr. without knowing all the facts. There might have been very good evidence, but since it looked like such a case of circumstantial evidence, that's what most of us (fictional characters included) decided it was. And the compassion that Barty Sr. finally shows is the sort of thing that's generally presented as good in today's entertainment---ignore the laws when they've been exercised unjustly; breaking the rules is okay if the end is good, etc. But the impulse is flawed, since a staunch supporter of the law must break the law to follow the impulse. It's sort of the flip side of the rule-breaking Harry, Hermione, and Ron do, which *does* turn out well, and illustrates again the real danger of some of the things they do. Also, to me, this is another example of how devious and deceptive Voldemort and the Death Eaters were/are. And who knows, perhaps Barty Jr.'s mom was a Death Eater, too, and wanted her son freed for more than maternal reasons? Does anyone besides me think the dementors might have "gone easier" on Voldemort's supporters? Sirius' explanation of how they didn't affect the dog as they would the man always seemed a little too easy, and perhaps his escape and the Barty switch were not such amazing things after all. Dumbledore's more than hinted that the basic nature of the dementors leans more toward Voldemort than Our Side, anyway. Eternal vigilance! --Amanda, more paranoid by the minute.... From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 8 20:57:34 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:57:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Literal interpretations? References: <8rqcps+p6ht@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E0DFBE.55535FD7@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2978 Jim Flanagan wrote: > If Hagrid were from Texas (like myself) I'd have > to take this statement with a grain of salt, since we Texans are > inclined to exaggerate *just a tad* for effect. Hagrid from Texas??? The mind reels! "Ya call that a dragon? Wait tell ya see one of our Houston Horntails, pardner--why next to it, your common Welsh green look like one of our Texas horned toads. Yep, and you should see it when they start throwing flames and setting the tumbleweeds on fire--it's gotta be one of the purtiest sights you'd ever see." > "When you're in Odessa, Texas, check out The World's Largest > Jackrabbit." I've seen it!!! Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 8 20:46:44 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:46:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rq2kr+ks76@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E0DD34.9D1D1DBC@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2979 Rita Winston wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > [Barty Crouch, Jr] told his story, in great detail and under very > > strong Veritaserum, to Dumbledore, Snape, McGonagall, and Harry. > > He was indeed a very faithful servant. > > For all that Moody/Crouch said "There's nothing I hate more than a > Death Eater who walked free" and mouthed off about disloyal followers > who denied their lord just to avoid Azkaban, he himself had *loudly* > denied his lord ("Father! I'm innocent! I didn't do it!") in an > unsuccessful effort to avoid Azkaban. Well, don't I feel like a great thundering prat. I had never twigged to that contradiction until now. > Two trains of thought that leave from this station have to do with > hypocrisy. One is the gutter-psychological theory of projection, > in which, whenever person X criticizes person Y for bad behaviour A, > someones retorts to person X that he/she is only saying that because > of 'denial' of his/her own A. > > Another is whether the Lord of Lies really has any objection to his > followers lying. > > A related thought is that, throughout the story, Crouch Sr. is > criticized for his hardness But the harm that we actually *see* > in this story was caused by Crouch Sr's moment of *softness*. If he > hadn't yielded to his > wife begging him to most illegally help a convicted felon escape from > prison, V couldn't have kidnapped Harry from Hogwarts, Cedric > wouldn't be dead, and for that matter, Crouch Sr wouldn't be dead. Very good points. Barty Crouch, Sr, too, was faithless in a way--faithless to his internal code of justice, I mean. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 8 21:47:04 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:47:04 -0000 Subject: Dementors (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <39E0DDF8.D601C0EA@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rqq0o+r7ud@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2980 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Does anyone besides me think the dementors might have "gone easier" > on Voldemort's supporters? (snip) > Dumbledore's more than hinted that the basic nature of the > dementors leans more toward Voldemort than Our Side, anyway. Oh. It never occurred to me to wonder if the Dementors might have gone easier on Death Eaters (Sirius did mention numbers of Death Eaters crying out in their Dementor-induced nightmares and eventually dying of depression). Instead, I recently have been wondering how could Death Eaters ally with Dementors when Death Eaters are [I assumed!] as vulnerable to having first their happiness and then their hopefulness and then their sanity sucked out of them as ordinary wizarding folk and Muggle folk. They probably won't affect V himself, but his human-ish followers, attempting to work together with Dementors, will become ineffectual and then dead. That might suit V just fine, but seems unlikely to cheer up the Death Eaters who came to his reunion meeting.t From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Sun Oct 8 21:50:51 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:50:51 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rq2kr+ks76@eGroups.com> <39E0DD34.9D1D1DBC@ibm.net> Message-ID: <003a01c03171$d51284c0$df51073e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 2981 ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse > Rita Winston wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > > > [Barty Crouch, Jr] told his story, in great detail and under very > > > strong Veritaserum, to Dumbledore, Snape, McGonagall, and Harry. > > > He was indeed a very faithful servant. > > > > For all that Moody/Crouch said "There's nothing I hate more than a > > Death Eater who walked free" and mouthed off about disloyal followers > > who denied their lord just to avoid Azkaban, he himself had *loudly* > > denied his lord ("Father! I'm innocent! I didn't do it!") in an > > unsuccessful effort to avoid Azkaban. > > Well, don't I feel like a great thundering prat. I had never twigged to > that contradiction until now. Unless his reason for lying and trying to avoid Azkaban was so that he would be free to return to Voldemort immediately... Alix From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 8 21:43:21 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 17:43:21 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon References: <39E0CB77.5575A7D1@swbell.net> Message-ID: <003501c03170$c7e2c680$489c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2982 Boy, Penny, this was a great article. I wonder why I keep getting goose-bumps when I read these kinds of articles. It's like finally being on the winning side or something. I did find one small mistake (boy, do I had nitpickers): "Harry is going through an initiation period, and we all go through that. ... We all feel like Harry did for the tournament. He did not want his name in the pot (to participate in the high-stakes International Quidditch Cup). He was too young." Thanks for the post. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 3:31 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon Hi -- There was a cover story on HP as a pop icon in the Lifestyle section of the Houston paper this morning. Interesting read (and I've *got* to contact some of the professors who were quoted as saying they disagreed with the NY Times & said the books were read by huge #s of adults -- ). http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/features/691381 Penny To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Oct 8 22:12:31 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:12:31 -0000 Subject: Literal interpretations? Texas Toads (very OT) In-Reply-To: <39E0DFBE.55535FD7@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8rqrgg+jhc8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2983 > Hagrid from Texas??? The mind reels! "Ya call that a dragon? > Wait tell ya see one of our Houston Horntails, pardner--why next to > it, your common Welsh green look like one of our Texas horned > toads. Except we always called them "horny toads" when we were little kids. Never could figure out why that made the grownups uncomfortable. Jim Flanagan Permian High School, '68 Mojo! From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 8 22:00:21 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:00:21 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks References: <000901c03137$82450ea0$3362143f@donnadozier> <39E0D6AC.9E9A1DE2@texas.net> Message-ID: <005a01c03173$27ee42a0$489c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2984 Oh well, Amanda, I don't have to worry about toddlers -- even my grand children are way past that age. But I do have a very determined cockatiel that I have to keep my eye on. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] A new member speaks Donna Rae wrote: > I've just started listening to the cassettes and find them to be wonderful. Is there any advantage to the CDs over the cassettes? I could only get the first two books and they only had cassettes at the bookstore. I know that the CDs cost much more, can anyone tell me the difference between the two media? Well, the chances of a CD surviving an encounter with a toddler are much, much higher than those for a cassette.... --Amanda, who's spent her share of time rewinding cassettes with a pencil and many muttered swear words To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 8 22:05:52 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:05:52 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Literal interpretations? References: <8rqcps+p6ht@eGroups.com> <39E0D833.4DD37D09@texas.net> Message-ID: <006501c03173$ed35cce0$489c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2985 I'm sorry, but didn't Hagrid say something to the effect that Slytherin produced more bad wizards than any other house? I don't remember him saying that all bad wizards came from Slytherin. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, please correct me. Thanks, Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Literal interpretations? Jim Flanagan wrote: > If Hagrid were from Texas (like myself) I'd have > to take this statement with a grain of salt, since we Texans are > inclined to exaggerate *just a tad* for effect. No, none of us ever, ever exaggerate at all. > Different > nationalities have reputations for exaggeration: the Irish are widely > known for "blarney," but the Scots and Germans are considered more > strait-laced. Do the people from rural south-west England (presumably > where Hagrid is from) have a reputation for hyperbole? If so, then > we should not look only to Slitherin for potential Death Eaters. I think that in Hagrid's case, he's a simple soul. By that I mean childlike in his view, very trusting and still very black-and-white, although he has an undeniable wisdom and depth. But yes, I think any analysis of the offhand comments needs to take context and mood of the speaker into account as well; not everyone pauses to ensure the absolute literal truth of their statements in every situation. Not even me, paragon of virtue that I am /SIZZLE/ *ahem* lightning-fried semi-paragon that I am. I think Slytherin's rep for evil wizards comes from the fact that their "alpha" characteristic is ambition, which more easily leads one into evil than the other Houses' guiding characteristics. > "When you're in Odessa, Texas, check out The World's Largest > Jackrabbit." Might as well, there's nothing else to do...... Go Permian! --Amanda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 8 22:34:03 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon Message-ID: <20001008223403.20412.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2986 Am I the only one (well, besides one of the guys interviewed in the article) that also thinks that having tons of Harry merchandise will be sort of annoying? I dislike fads that have to do with a ton of merchandise, although I shouldn't really say that. I love The Simpsons, and The Simpsons had a merchandise BONANZA during the 1990-1991 season, and yet that show is still going strong. What does everyone else think? Virtually, Anake N. ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 8 22:33:59 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 15:33:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon Message-ID: <20001008223359.21493.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2987 --- Anake wrote: > Am I the only one (well, besides one of the guys interviewed in the article) that > also thinks that having tons of Harry merchandise will be sort of annoying? I > dislike fads that have to do with a ton of merchandise, although I shouldn't > really > say that. I love The Simpsons, and The Simpsons had a merchandise BONANZA during > the 1990-1991 season, and yet that show is still going strong. > > What does everyone else think? Silly me. I meant to say, "I dislike fads that have to do with a ton of merchandise (except Harry Potter)." Well...I think I'll crawl in a hole now. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 8 22:53:44 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 18:53:44 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon References: <20001008223403.20412.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00b001c0317a$9d2fcaa0$489c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2988 I just picture all the little David Copperfield pencil boxes that the media probably pushed after Dickens came out with his classic. Or how about the Tiny Tim Christmas ornaments LOL. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Anake To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 6:34 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon Am I the only one (well, besides one of the guys interviewed in the article) that also thinks that having tons of Harry merchandise will be sort of annoying? I dislike fads that have to do with a ton of merchandise, although I shouldn't really say that. I love The Simpsons, and The Simpsons had a merchandise BONANZA during the 1990-1991 season, and yet that show is still going strong. What does everyone else think? Virtually, Anake N. ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Sun Oct 8 23:40:39 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:40:39 -0000 Subject: HP reference in Liberty Meadows Message-ID: <8rr0ln+smpi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2989 Todays episode of the comic strip Liberty Meadows has a very funny HP reference. For some reason, the strip on the Liberty Meadows website is from last week, even though its labeled *todays strip*. Hopefully, they will catch up soon, so if your local newspaper doesnt carry Liberty Meadows heres the website: -- Joywitch From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Oct 8 23:48:50 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:48:50 -0000 Subject: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <39E0DDF8.D601C0EA@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rr152+dsuc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2990 > > (Perhaps the given name should > > have been Peter rather than Bartemius, as Peter denied *his* lord > > three times before cock crow -- does anyone have any ideas on the > > meaning of the name Bartemius?) Bartemius (or Bartimeus or Bartimaeus) was the blind man healed by Jesus. I suspect that JKR has been studying her New Testament. -Jim Flanagan From stevekimmel at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 00:41:45 2000 From: stevekimmel at yahoo.com (stevekimmel at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 00:41:45 -0000 Subject: Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody Message-ID: <8rr489+nf64@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2991 Sorry guys. I thought this was due this week. Plunging right into it then... First day of classes and this chapter introduces Harry's principle teachers for the new school year. We find Harry taking almost exactly the same slate of courses as every other year including Divination. The day begins with Hermione asking the question that occurred to me. "You should have given it up like me, shouldn't you? Then you'd be doing something sensible like Arithmancy." Question 1. Why is Harry taking the same courses year after year when clearly other students at the same level are taking different courses? (Lack of imagination on the part of Miss Rowling?) First class is Herbology with Professor Sprout where we find our intrepid band collecting pus from Bubotubers. The pus is extremely valuable in part at least because it makes an excellent remedy for Acne. Presumably there are no effective cures for Acne in the Muggle world and given a school full of teenagers a good cure for Acne might be highly valuable. The second class is Care of Magical Creatures with Hagrid. This year's magical creature of note are the Blast-Ended Skrewts. Blast- Ended Skrewts are not good for much of anything and as Malfoy puts it, "Who wouldn't want pets that can burn, sting and bit all at once?" After our encounter with the Slytherins and Malfoy, Ron and Harry go to their third class, the ever popular divination while Hermione goes to the Library to work on her Elf Liberation project. Professor Trelawney is as misty as ever and immediately makes her initial prediction of doom for Harry. The first main topic this year is Astrology and Professor Trelawney declares that Harry must have been born in midwinter which is, of course, wrong. A couple cheesy jokes about Uranus and class is over. Ron and Harry are heading to dinner when they run into Hermione and Draco Malfoy. Malfoy has a newspaper clipping about Ron's father. Some insults between Draco and Harry and Draco attacks Harry when his back is turned. Finally we get to the real point of the chapter and meet the chapter's title character: Mad-Eye Moody, the new Defense Against the Dark Arts professor. Moody transforms Draco into a white ferret. After inquiring into whether Harry is all right, Moody decides that Draco has not been sufficiently punished. Accordingly, he decides to see how high a ferret will bounce which turns out to be nearly to the ceiling. We also learn that his rolling eye is magical and allows him to see out the back of his head. McGonagall saves Draco's bacon and reprimands Moody. "Moody, we never use transformation as a punishment!" McGonagall restores Draco and we find that Moody knows Lucious Malfoy and Professor Snape, "another old friend." After dinner, Hermione goes back to work on her elf project and the Griffindor proclaim Moody to be "Supercool." This chapter is critical in our accepting the final answer to the book. We must "miss" the key point or the surprise ending will be given away. At the same time, we have to accept the events as being consistent with the final answer. In this case, the author must "plant" the essential details of Moody's character is such a way that we'll believe them to be friendly to Harry at the time but accept that Moody is really Harry's enemy later when that is revealed. Question 2 : Why did we believe Moody is Harry's friend and benefactor? Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy? Question 4: What do we think will happen between Moody and Snape and between Moody and Malfoy? From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Oct 9 00:47:27 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:47:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Source of the name Bartemius References: <8rr152+dsuc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E1159F.AF936FED@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2992 Jim Flanagan wrote: > > > (Perhaps the given name should > > > have been Peter rather than Bartemius, as Peter denied *his* lord > > > three times before cock crow -- does anyone have any ideas on the > > > meaning of the name Bartemius?) > > Bartemius (or Bartimeus or Bartimaeus) was the blind man healed by > Jesus. I suspect that JKR has been studying her New Testament. She was a classics major, I believe. Peg P.S. OT, speaking of classics majors, has anyone read _Tam Lin_ by Pamela Dean?) From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 01:26:33 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 01:26:33 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin Message-ID: <8rr6s9+q1bg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2993 Hi everybody! After taking a week "off" I'm back (and still catching up on messages). It's just been a busy week. Well, this post is on latin and probably should tie into Harry Potter. The first part however errr,doesn't (really). We ,the 1st year latin students, have been slaves for the past week to the older latin students. It will conclude with the initiation on tues. (to which we have to to wear togas/tunics...wish me luck!). I wonder if 1st yrs. at Hogworts are put through any peer intiation? We also have to pick latin names. My choice, "Sirius". Do you like it? Lastly I was wondering if those of you who are more educated in latin than I immediatley picked up on things such as "Remus Lupin" and knew he was a werewolf, or associated w/ wolves, all along? It's good to be back! Scott From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 9 01:28:46 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 01:28:46 -0000 Subject: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <8rq2kr+ks76@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rr70e+rt68@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2994 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > [Barty Crouch, Jr] told his story, in great detail and under very > > strong Veritaserum, to Dumbledore, Snape, McGonagall, and Harry. > > He was indeed a very faithful servant. > > For all that Moody/Crouch said "There's nothing I hate more than a > Death Eater who walked free" and mouthed off about disloyal followers > who denied their lord just to avoid Azkaban, he himself had *loudly* > denied his lord ("Father! I'm innocent! I didn't do it!") in an > unsuccessful effort to avoid Azkaban. (Perhaps the given name should > have been Peter rather than Bartemius, as Peter denied *his* lord > three times before cock crow -- does anyone have any ideas on the > meaning of the name Bartemius?) > > Two trains of thought that leave from this station have to do with > hypocrisy. One is the gutter-psychological theory of projection, > in which, whenever person X criticizes person Y for bad behaviour A, > someones retorts to person X that he/she is only saying that because > of 'denial' of his/her own A. > > Another is whether the Lord of Lies really has any objection to his > followers lying. > > A related thought is that, throughout the story, Crouch Sr. is > criticized for his hardness, such as ending his own son to Azkaban, > sending Sirius to Azkabab without trial, authorizing Aurors to kill > 'suspects' without the bother of planting a drop gun on them and > falsely testifying that the killing was in self-defense like Muggle > police officers do (apologies to any honest cop reading this post, > but I live in Los Angeles and cannot imagine why *anyone* was > surprised by the so-called Rampart scandal: talk about old news!). > > But the harm that we actually *see* in this story was caused by > Crouch Sr's moment of *softness*. If he hadn't yielded to his > wife begging him to most illegally help a convicted felon escape from > prison, V couldn't have kidnapped Harry from Hogwarts, Cedric > wouldn't be dead, and for that matter, Crouch Sr wouldn't be dead. From donnadr at gte.net Mon Oct 9 01:22:39 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 21:22:39 -0400 Subject: Harry Potter Links Message-ID: <000201c03190$6735bac0$42a2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 2995 I found something interesting today and wanted to let everyone in on it. Now, remember, I'm new here, so excuse me if this has already been posted. This is the IMDB page for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. http://us.imdb.com/Title?0241527 There are so many links from this page, that you could spend hours there. There are: Cast and Crew: with links to each member and every movie, play, tv show they have ever been associated with External Reviews - no reviews yet but the sites are up and ready - I especially like Rotten Tomatoes Filming Locations News Articles - Many links Photo Gallery - Only one picture so far Official Site - Warner Brothers Miscellaneous - Many wonderful links Sound Clip(s) I was very impressed. I even got to vote for whether or not I would like to see the Harry Potter books pulled from the shelves. Of course, if you already know about this one....never mind~~~ Donna Rae From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 9 01:43:37 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 01:43:37 -0000 Subject: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <8rr70e+rt68@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rr7s9+uk0f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2996 Okay, that didn't work. Here it goes again... > For all that Moody/Crouch said "There's nothing I hate more than a > Death Eater who walked free" and mouthed off about disloyal followers > who denied their lord just to avoid Azkaban, he himself had *loudly* > denied his lord ("Father! I'm innocent! I didn't do it!") in an > unsuccessful effort to avoid Azkaban. But this is Crouch talking, not Voldemort who, seemingly, forgave those who lied to stay out of Azkaban, at least on the level of, "I need to use you for various reasons right now so let's let bygones be bygones but I certainly plan to bring up your disloyalty if I have to." And on a related note, given Crouch, Jr's story, Sirius Black was NOT the first person to escape from Azkaban - wonder if there are any others? From catlady at wicca.net Mon Oct 9 01:54:31 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 01:54:31 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <8rr6s9+q1bg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rr8gn+g71h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2997 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > We also have to pick latin names. My choice, "Sirius". Dictionary.com says the etymology is "[Latin Sirius, from Greek Seirios, from seirios, burning.] " > ...immediatley picked up on things such as "Remus Lupin" and knew > he was a werewolf, or associated w/ wolves, all along? I immediately picked up on the name R. J. Lupin, and wondered if this is about wolves (werewolves?), a kind of flower, or Monty Python's highwayman, Danny ?Turpin?, who sings a stupid song and robs travellers of their lupines (the flower). When JKR eventually revealed that his given name is Remus, that answered that. But left the question, in a world in which names have **such** influence on destiny, WHY would any parents name their little one Remus Lupin? From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Oct 9 02:03:07 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:03:07 -0500 Subject: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) Message-ID: <39E1275B.BAB62EF2@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 2998 I almost feel too lazy to do this message, but . . . Slothfulness is laziness, disinclination to work, idleness. Once again, watching Dudley has given Harry an eyeful of the nature (and effects) of slothfulness, up close and personal, which perhaps has inoculated him against succumbing to the temptation. Still, to me, slothfulness doesn't seem to be as central an issue in the series as some of the other sins. Nonetheless, there are some examples. Someone on the list remarked that on the slothfulness continuum, Harry seems to occupy the happy medium niche between Hermione, the ant, and Ron, the grasshopper. Harry seems to do his homework and study, but he enjoys himself, too, playing Quidditch, for example--he finds that taking Quidditch breaks from his studies helps clear his mind and relax him, so that presumably he is more ready to concentrate when he does get back to the books. He doesn't keep his nose to the grindstone as much as Hermione (esp. when she had the time turner) or goof off as much as Ron, or even more, George and Fred Weasley seem to do. But Harry isn't perfect. The most significant example I could think of was the time that Harry got a slow start on solving the clue in the dragon's egg for the second task, because he was reluctant to start working on the problem. He was forced to launch a last minute all-night search through the books in the library, and he wouldn't have managed to complete the task at all if it hadn't been for Doby. Another interesting comparison along the slothfulness continuum is offered by contrasting Percy who works diligently on a report on report about cauldron bottoms, which (at least to this reader) is a pretty trivial subject, vs. the Weasley twins, who seems to be frittering their time away on frivolous jokes, to the detriment of their studying--and yet by the end of the book it is clear to us that they are very serious about the joke shop. They have been busy making inventions, they have a business plan, and a venture capitalist (Harry!) and they seem about to make a serious go of it. What does the issue of slothfulness have to do with the Harry Potter books? I think it has to do with the faux Mad-Eye Moody's motto: "Constant vigilance!" Harry had prepared as best as he could for the first and third tasks, and he probably survived his encounter with Voldemort in GoF only because of the magical lessons he had practiced so assiduously (including the "Accio" and "Impedimenta" spells). There's one character I would like to highlight with respect to sloth, perhaps one that isn't immediately evident at first glance: Cornelius Fudge. Fudge, in his role as Minister of Magic, is refusing to do the work he should be doing at this point. Now, granted, Fudge's refusal to act at the end of GoF perhaps can't be labeled "laziness," exactly. It is definitely a disinclination to do the hard thing, however (to "get up and do what needs to be done," as Garrison Keillor puts it). Fudge refuses to take the steps necessary to prepare the wizarding world for the change in circumstances resulting from Voldemort's rise. And really, whatever his reasons, whether it is fear, or disinclination to change the status quo, or something else (even something more sinister, like the possibility that Fudge may secretly already be in Voldemort's camp), the result is the same: because Fudge is refusing to act (to remove the dementors from Azkaban, to send envoys to the giants, etc.) the wizarding world is not prepared for Voldemort's return. Evil flourishes when good people stand by and do nothing; THAT is the moral danger in slothfulness. And so it is up to Dumbledore to step in and take action. Anyone else with any other comments or observations on slothfulness, please feel free to chime in. For those of you who have just joined the group recently and are wondering what on earth this message is about: These posts on the 7 deadly sins and the Harry Potter books all started because I read an article that I've mentioned before, discussing the books as an account of a moral education. Here's the article: http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html I was impressed by this, because it seemed to me to be one of the best responses I've read to the attacks that Harry Potter is evil, etc. Moreover, it got me thinking about larger, thematic issues in the books, which I love to do. It occurred to me that if the books are about the attaining of a moral education, then analyzing how Harry receives his education, step by step (or sin by sin) might be interesting. It's been fun. In fact, it's been so much fun that I'm thinking about continuing with the 7 Heavenly virtues--faith, hope, charity, fortitude, justice, temperance, prudence, in a larger, secular sense, rather than just a Christian sense--now that I'm done with the 7 Deadly sins. So: if I hear enough interested noises at the idea of my continuing these essay posts by examining the 7 Heavenly virtues, I'll take a stab at it. Let me know. Peg From catlady at wicca.net Mon Oct 9 02:00:09 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 02:00:09 -0000 Subject: The Name Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <8rr152+dsuc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rr8r9+2lkg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 2999 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Bartemius (or Bartimeus or Bartimaeus) was the blind man healed by > Jesus. I suspect that JKR has been studying her New Testament. Thanks. What did JKR mean by it? I doesn't seem to me that either Crouch was cured of blindness, even metaphorically. I suppose I should apologize to Neil, who said that he thought 'Bartemius' sounded Biblical and I disagreeed. (My excuse: I think "Bible" and "that Christian stuff", not "Old Testament" and "New Testament".] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Mon Oct 9 02:06:21 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 02:06:21 GMT Subject: re jackrabbit - all OT Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3000 ----Original Message Follows---- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Texas --- OT; Gregorian Calendar; Hagrid & Generalization Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:45:17 -0500 Hi Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > "When you're in Odessa, Texas, check out The World's Largest > > Jackrabbit." > > Might as well, there's nothing else to do...... Ain't that the truth! What's a jackrabbit? > Go Permian! M-O-J-O!!!! huh? Penny (who's overwhelmingly thrilled to no longer be living in Odessa) this odessa must be a reeeallllyyyyy boring place! storm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 03:18:26 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:18:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) References: <39E1275B.BAB62EF2@ibm.net> Message-ID: <01d201c0319f$9cacb820$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3001 So: if I hear enough interested noises at the idea of my continuing these essay posts by examining the 7 Heavenly virtues, I'll take a stab at it. Let me know. Peg YES YES YES YES YES YES YES Does that count as 7 noises? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 02:22:18 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:22:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dementors (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rqq0o+r7ud@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E12BD9.53C0C722@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3002 Rita Winston wrote: > Oh. It never occurred to me to wonder if the Dementors might have > gone easier on Death Eaters (Sirius did mention numbers of Death > Eaters crying out in their Dementor-induced nightmares and > eventually dying of depression). Yeah, but that's a side effect of being anywhere around them, kind of like we produce carbon dioxide as a by-product of breathing. No human can survive dementors too long; by "go easy" I meant sort of "not intentionally preying," or turning a blind (non)eye to the two known escapes. > Instead, I recently have been > wondering how could Death Eaters ally with Dementors when Death > Eaters are [I assumed!] as vulnerable to having first their > happiness and then their hopefulness and then their sanity sucked out > of them as ordinary wizarding folk and Muggle folk. They probably > won't affect V himself, but his human-ish followers, attempting to > work together with Dementors, will become ineffectual and then dead. I doubt they'd work together with them. Voldemort probably'd just sic them on various victims. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 02:39:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:39:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re jackrabbit - all OT References: Message-ID: <39E12FEA.9CA7A40C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3003 Snuffles Macgoo wrote: > What's a jackrabbit? A hare, actually, that lives in the more open desert-ish regions of the Southwest. They have *huge* ears and no respect whatsoever for cars, dogs, or people throwing things at them. They are what you see on the bad postcards that have the "jackalopes," jackrabbits with antlers. > M-O-J-O!!!! > > huh? The battlecry of Odessa Permian, the "elite" high school of Odessa, whose mascot is a black panther named Mojo. I dated for some years a former student of Odessa High, the poor cousin, and occasionally baited him with my Go Permian chant. > Penny (who's overwhelmingly thrilled to no longer be living in Odessa) Penny shares everyone's opinion of Odessa whom I have yet met. > this odessa must be a reeeallllyyyyy boring place! West Texas brings a new level of literalness to the term "tableland." There are no trees. There are no attractive bushes. There are no fences built of anything but cinderblocks. There is no such thing as a speed trap because you can see in every direction for miles. You can sleep at the wheel because all the roads are straight. There is no water. There is no rain. There is also no drainage system (why?), so even after 1/2 inch of precipitation, everything floods. There is no point to life after a few weeks there. Etc. Penny, did I nail it? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 02:43:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:43:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A varied post on Latin References: <8rr6s9+q1bg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E130D9.4E08E8A5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3004 Scott wrote: > Lastly I was wondering if those of you who are more educated in latin > than I immediatley picked up on things such as "Remus Lupin" and knew > he was a werewolf, or associated w/ wolves, all along? Oh, yeah. And as soon as Snape had them do the werewolf homework, I was sure. Most of her names seem to have some sort of tie to the character of the bearer. Sometimes it's just that they *sound* right, like Severus Snape who has an abrupt, crackly manner and has cut himself off from most human contact, seems like. I'm not sure about Trelawney, but a sybill is a fortuneteller. Poppy and Pomfrey are both plants. My favorite is still Sirius Black, who transformed to a black dog, since Sirius is the name of the dog star. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 02:48:35 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 02:48:35 -0000 Subject: OT--Weathermen? In-Reply-To: <39E0D3B2.81D338BB@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rrbm3+7264@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3005 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Denise Rogers wrote: > > > Susan, > > even though I am 32, I do not recall this name. Perhaps it's because we only got as far as 1950's and the Korean War? (Majored in Socials Studies, with about 4 different Histories in HS... still is "unschooled", lol!) > > Dee, don't feel bad. I'm 36 and don't recall ever hearing the term "weatherman." Seems like we get taught selective history, and not just in history classes---case in point, my husband was in the first graduating class of > the University of California at Irvine (okay, the second, but the first was two people), and remembers when it was under construction. When we were out visiting in California, we went to see UofI and I read a couple of > histories, detailing the architecture, etc., etc. But nowhere does it say what he remembers was one of the arguing factors for the layout of the buildings--that this was one of the first universities specifically laid out > for riot control. All the original main buildings are in a loose circle around a central area, with no other natural gathering place designed in, so that if a riot or uncontrolled gathering began, it could be quickly brought > under control by sealing the spaces between the buildings. A product of its time, the 1960s (he graduated in 1967 or 68, I believe), but not a fact trumpeted anywhere today. > At the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, the Administration building which houses the President was built in the 1960s and built in the same way. There is the front door with a small lobby area and an elevator that can be locked and a staircase that can be locked. Those are the only ways upstairs. But there is an escape tunnel over to the Michigan Union for administration to use leaving. The windows are very narrow, and in general, it's built to withstand student riots. May be more known in Ann Arbor which loves this kind of trivia . Most of the popular histories of the 60s focus on Woodstock, rock music, drug culture, etc. and ignore the political activism. Susan > --Amanda, lover of trivia From klaatu at primenet.com Mon Oct 9 02:51:12 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 19:51:12 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) In-Reply-To: <39E1275B.BAB62EF2@ibm.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3006 -----Original Message----- >>>So: if I hear enough interested noises at the idea of my continuing >>>these essay posts by examining the 7 Heavenly virtues, I'll take a stab >>>at it. Let me know. >>>Peg [Sister Mary Lunatic makes interested noise.] Even though I don't think I've commented on this series, I've really enjoyed reading your thoughts, Peg. What I'd also really enjoy is to read your book "Emerald House Rising" which I've had on order for a month now with no results. Grrrr -- can you suggest some other likely source besides Amazon or Barnes & Noble, who have failed me in this Quest? ================================================== Website of the Week: http://nen.sedona.net/circleofa/ (Course in Miracles Workbook) Current Book: "Training the Mind" by Chogyam Trungpa Quote: "Sometimes a majority just means all the fools are on the same side." ================================================== From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 9 02:49:25 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:49:25 -0500 Subject: Interested Noises for Peg & OT Stuff (jackrabbit - all OT) References: Message-ID: <39E13235.879D2A5@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3007 Hi -- Peg -- please, please do continue with the 7 Heavenly Virtues!!! I have really enjoyed the 7 Deadly Sins discussions -- printed out all your essays in fact. Even though I haven't chimed in too much in analyzing them, I've loved them. So . . . please do continue. Now, OT answers for Storm & then I will abandon this completely irrelevant discussion of my hometown (I was just *so* shocked & amazed to find someone -- hi Jim! -- from Odessa & on a HP listserve to boot & then Amanda chimed in with "Go Permian" & I had to respond). Anyway -- skip the rest if you're not interested -- Snuffles Macgoo wrote: > What's a jackrabbit? A rabbit (wild) with long ears & long tail -- common to the southwestern U.S. They're very fast! > > Go Permian! > > M-O-J-O!!!! > > huh? Hmmm . . . don't even know where to start. It would be very complicated to answer what that means to anyone not from Texas (maybe since Mojo originated during or not long before Jim's tenure at Permian, he might take a crack at explaining it as long as he combines it in a post that's on-topic -- ). It is in short the rallying cry for my high school (which I believe is still on the record books as the high school with the best football record of all Texas high schools -- no small feat in this state). MOJO gets chanted at football games. I can make it "slightly" OT by adding that it often gets referred to as Mojo Magic. I also believe I've read "somewhere" (God knows where) that the word comes from some African-American magical tradition (Louisiana in particular). It also has some meaning in jazz music but I couldn't tell you what. I found this on the school's official website -- "That same year [1965], supportive and loyal fans coined the term "Mojo" during an emotional game. Since its birth this four letter word is echoed by the fans and chanted at the games, causing outsiders to envy the "magic" of Permian." > this odessa must be a reeeallllyyyyy boring place! It's often referred to as "Slow-Death-A" -- a term my husband uses regularly when we're compelled to visit. :--) End of OT discussions. Email me privately if you want more info! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 02:48:49 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:48:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) References: <39E1275B.BAB62EF2@ibm.net> Message-ID: <39E13211.26321C6C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3008 Peg Kerr wrote: > So: if I hear enough interested noises at the idea of my continuing > these essay posts by examining the 7 Heavenly virtues, I'll take a stab > at it. Let me know. Oh, please do! I missed the first deadly sins (I assume if I ever have enough time to figure out the workings of the website, I can find them), but I've had ever so much fun reading these last three. --Amanda From donnadr at gte.net Mon Oct 9 02:40:29 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:40:29 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) References: <39E1275B.BAB62EF2@ibm.net> Message-ID: <007901c0319a$4a7e7520$42a2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3009 Wow, Peg, this was so well written. I'm impressed. I'm going to have to go back and get the other deadly sins. Is there a way to find them easily in the archive? Do I search on 'deadly sins'? I would really love to hear your comments on the 7 heavenly virtues. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:03 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 02:56:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 21:56:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody References: <8rr489+nf64@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E133D7.3202235E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3010 I tried real hard to answer these from the point of someone who has only read this far, as I think is the point of this analysis, right? stevekimmel at yahoo.com wrote: > Question 1. Why is Harry taking the same courses year after year when > clearly other students at the same level are taking different > courses? (Lack of imagination on the part of Miss Rowling?) Didn't they have to decide their specialties at the start of their third year? Hermione had the option of giving up Divination because she was more than filling her requirements for specialties. By this time, changing choices may not be an option for Harry or Ron. > Moody transforms Draco into a white > ferret. Did anyone else wonder why this particular animal? Does Moody specify, or did the spell select an animal whose nature was close to the castee? I presume it was white because Draco is so buffy-blond. > Question 2 : Why did we believe Moody is Harry's friend and > benefactor? Because we have thus far been treated to Draco always getting away with "it," and it was so nice to see him toasted for once that we assumed the toaster was a friend. Who is against our enemies is our friend. Plus he bothered to ask if Harry was all right. > Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student > even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy? Because of Moody's past history/career and known eccentricity. It seems entirely in character for him to ignore the school's strictures and do what he himself thought appropriate. And as I said before, it was so *nice* to see Draco getting some back for a change. Also, Moody pretty clearly knew Lucius and didn't think much of him, which explains his apparent pre-judgement of Lucius' son. --Amanda From klaatu at primenet.com Mon Oct 9 03:00:25 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:00:25 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Interested Noises for Peg & OT Stuff (jackrabbit - all OT) In-Reply-To: <39E13235.879D2A5@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3011 OT -- I think that "mojo" is also a slang term for a condom, which sheds a whole new light on your football chant. Hmmmmm From donnadr at gte.net Mon Oct 9 02:52:23 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:52:23 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dementors (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rqq0o+r7ud@eGroups.com> <39E12BD9.53C0C722@texas.net> Message-ID: <00a001c0319b$f42792e0$42a2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3012 Oh, Amanda, now that's a scary picture. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dementors (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse I doubt they'd work together with them. Voldemort probably'd just sic them on various victims. --Amanda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 03:07:03 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:07:03 -0000 Subject: Harry as Pop Icon In-Reply-To: <00b001c0317a$9d2fcaa0$489c0b3f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8rrcon+dsj6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3013 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > I just picture all the little David Copperfield pencil boxes that the media probably pushed after Dickens came out with his classic. Or how about the Tiny Tim Christmas ornaments LOL. > > Donna Rae > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anake > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon > > > Am I the only one (well, besides one of the guys interviewed in the article) that > also thinks that having tons of Harry merchandise will be sort of annoying? I > dislike fads that have to do with a ton of merchandise, although I shouldn't really > say that. I love The Simpsons, and The Simpsons had a merchandise BONANZA during > the 1990-1991 season, and yet that show is still going strong. > > What does everyone else think? > > Virtually, > > Anake N. > Sigh, on the one hand, I do get sick of popular culture/commercialization...selling everything. However, we had one of the first Hogwarts teeshirts in town, and it got amazing results...we immediately found all the other PotterHeads and got into animated discussions. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 03:12:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:12:32 -0000 Subject: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <39E0DDF8.D601C0EA@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rrd30+4957@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3014 . > Dumbledore's more than hinted that the basic nature of the dementors > leans more toward Voldemort than Our Side, anyway. > > Eternal vigilance! > > Dumbledore has always been very suspicious and opposed to the Dementors -- he is furious that they have come on to the Hogwarts grounds, at one of the trials Moody says "oh yes, you've never been happy with our alliance with them" or something like that.. he's very clear that he thinks they are a bad ally to have..... Voldemort clearly states in the GoF that the dementors are his natural allies and will join him Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 03:21:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:21:38 -0000 Subject: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <39E0DD34.9D1D1DBC@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8rrdk2+cj9r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3015 . > > Very good points. Barty Crouch, Sr, too, was faithless in a > way--faithless to his internal code of justice, I mean. In some ways, father and son were very much alike. Barty, senior, was ruthless in his opposition to the Dark Lord and used inhuman and inhumane methods to fight evil. For example, he authorized the Aurors to kill, and he put Sirius Black in Azkaban without a trial (hmmm..although Dumbledore says that he himself testified that Black was the Potters secret-keeper, so is this an inconsistency or was there a hearing at which Black was not allowed?) Barty Senior was rigid and ruthless and treated those who he perceived as having failed ruthlessly (Winky). Then he became a hypocrite by freeing his son from Azkeban but still being judgmental towards folks such as Ludo Bagman. Junior might have looked like a pure fanatic, but as was just pointed out he denied Voldemort in order to escape Azkeban, and then became most angry/vengeful towards those who had SUCCESSFULLY denied Voldemort and escaped Azkeban. It's like those who corrupted the Russian and French revolutions by becoming just as tyrannical and unjust as those they had overthrown. Those on opposing sides were actually quite like each other.. Contrast Harry who saves Wormtail's life because he says, his father would not have wanted Padfoot and Moody to become killers..who tempers righteous anger with compassion/justice....he is unlike BOTH Senior and Junior, but more like Albus Dumbledore who "gives people second chances." Susan From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 03:30:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:30:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rrdk2+cj9r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E13BD3.3C6E243A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3016 Susan McGee wrote: > For example, he authorized the > Aurors to kill, and he put Sirius Black in Azkaban without a trial > (hmmm..although Dumbledore says that he himself testified that Black > was the Potters secret-keeper, so is this an inconsistency or was > there a hearing at which Black was not allowed?) Presumably the latter, since the accused isn't necessarily there at a hearing. There's lots of ways to review a case without a formal trial with a jury and all. > Junior might have looked like a pure fanatic, but as was just > pointed out he denied Voldemort in order to escape Azkeban, and then > became most angry/vengeful towards those who had SUCCESSFULLY denied > Voldemort and escaped Azkeban. No, he wasn't angry that they successfully denied Voldemort to get out of Azkaban. He was angry that they did deny him, stayed out, and then didn't go try to *find* him. He was angry that they denounced him and then got on with their lives--if they had denounced him to get free and then gone on a Voldemort-search, that would have been fine. I still don't think Barty Jr. denied Voldemort, anyway--he denied involvement in the crime in question. But anyway, his motives were "pure" from his own and Voldemort's viewpoints; he wanted to be free to be able to find Voldemort and restore him, and any means to that end would be okay. --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 9 03:33:38 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:33:38 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <39E130D9.4E08E8A5@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rreai+j1fl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3017 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Scott wrote: > sure. Most of her names seem to have some sort of tie to the character of > the bearer. Sometimes it's just that they *sound* right, For those who are interested in the origins of names and words in the HP books, I highly recommend What's In A Name, a wonderful website that provides detailed etymologies. There are a few clunkers-- unsubstantiated rumors more than anything else--but most of them are spot on. You'll find it here: http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ There is another page as well that has a somewhat more limited list of names and where they come from. The author is German so some of his English isn't perfect, but it's certainly readable. Here's the URL for that one: http://www.rudihein.de/hpewords.htm You could, of course, also preuse the Harry Potter Lexicon (you guys KNEW I would say that, didn't you!). I have included some word origins in it here and there. In answer to someone's post about what Latin students notice as they read the book, I can tell you that we notice a LOT! I studied Latin for six years and I majored in literature my first time through college, so most of these words and names are very familiar to me. I've also played a fair number of fantasy role playing games, so the creatures are familiar as well, at least in their more traditional versions. On top of that, I'm now a librarian with an extensive collection of reference materials, (including a book entitled The Monster Book of Monsters, believe it or not). So things jump out at me all the time (in a manner of speaking). I've included Latin derivations on the spell page of the Lexicon and I'm working on a complete beastiary as well. For all that, there are a few that have me stumped. For example, I know that a hinkeypunk shows up in the Dungeons and Dragons Monster Manual, so JKR didn't invent it. But did she find it somewhere else? It's not in any of my reference books like The Field Guide to the Little People or about monsters or mythology or whatever. Or did she just copy it from the Monster Manual since she liked the name? And here's another one: where does the spell word Alohomora come from (opens doors)? I can't find a Latin root for it. All in all, this whole word/name business is just plain fascinating. JKR has created a world where every word, every name is a little puzzle to solve and a clue to something larger. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 03:36:43 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:36:43 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <39E130D9.4E08E8A5@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rregb+qfd5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3018 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Scott wrote: > > > Lastly I was wondering if those of you who are more educated in latin > > than I immediatley picked up on things such as "Remus Lupin" and knew > > he was a werewolf, or associated w/ wolves, all along? > > Oh, yeah. And as soon as Snape had them do the werewolf homework, I was > sure. Most of her names seem to have some sort of tie to the character of > the bearer. Sometimes it's just that they *sound* right, like Severus > Snape who has an abrupt, crackly manner and has cut himself off from most > human contact, seems like. I'm not sure about Trelawney, but a sybill is > a fortuneteller. Poppy and Pomfrey are both plants. My favorite is still > Sirius Black, who transformed to a black dog, since Sirius is the name of > the dog star. > > --Amanda Hah! My Latin is quite rusty (I too was a Classics major but many, many years ago). I did associate Remus with Romulus and Remus, but didn't put it together.... I first saw the Hogwarts crest in Latin (no English translation) and got "Never titillate a sleeping dragon" then never annoy a sleeping dragon, but kept saying dormiens, that's sleeping, draco is definitely dragon (as in Draco Malfoy)...but why would the crest say that? Who is the dragon we must not annoy? Anyway Ludo of course stands for play but does Bagman refer to his gambling? Minerva - quite a compliment to McGonagall....But is Avada Kedava (spelling?) Latin??????? I got Crucio, and Imperio, quite easily..... S From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 9 03:38:35 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:38:35 -0000 Subject: Literal interpretations? In-Reply-To: <006501c03173$ed35cce0$489c0b3f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8rrejr+1au4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3019 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > I'm sorry, but didn't Hagrid say something to the effect that Slytherin produced more bad wizards than any other house? I don't remember him saying that all bad wizards came from Slytherin. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, please correct me. > > Thanks, > > Donna Rae Actually, what he says is: "There wasn't a wizard who went bad that ~wasn't~ in Slytherin." I may not have it verbatim, but the idea is correct. Kelley From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 9 03:41:17 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:41:17 -0000 Subject: reactions to Dementors In-Reply-To: <00a001c0319b$f42792e0$42a2173f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8rreot+ulc4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3020 I was listening to CS on tape tonight while I was folding clothes (which has become almost a fun job with HP tapes to listen to!) and something struck me again. I had noted this in my research onths ago and I know it's starred in my notebook, but I'd forgotten. Did anyone else notice how Ginny reacted to the Dementor on the train? She was much more affected than anyone else except Harry. In fact, while Harry was described as having a seizure, she is also described as shaking all over. Harry is the focus and everyone looks at him, but I wonder... Just so she doesn't turn out to be his sister, hidden away at birth like her brother Luke to protect her from the evil Lord Vader. Oh, sorry, wrong mythology... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Oct 9 03:41:49 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:41:49 -0500 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration . . . Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001008222050.00a87a10@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3021 As I feel like being controversial today . . . One of the problems I have with Harry's character is the lack of consideration he gives to others, even those who are his friends. For example, in GoF he has absolutely no idea why Ron is so upset with him. Despite the fact that Ron has made it obvious how overshadowed he feels by his brothers, Harry has no clue just how much it bothers Ron. It's Hermione who has to explain Ron's feelings to Harry (and her understanding it makes for a nice H/R arguement). And despite knowing why it has upset Ron, he's refuses to understand, instead focusing on himself and how *he's* the one insulted. And in the end it's *Ron* who is the one to end the fight. Not Harry -- Ron. The other thing that bothers me is his thoughtlessness about Voldemort's other victims. In SS/PS he says he's going to try and stop V because of what Voldemort did to his parents. Harry already knows that a lot of people died because of Voldemort but the only thing that matters to him is his parents. Now, I'll give him a break in the first one because he was just a kid, but in the later books he never seems to think about anyone else either. (This has led to a line in a fic I'm working on where Dumbledore says "You're not the only one who lost someone you loved to Voldemort. Never forget that.") Harry does seem to forget that and I can never quite forgive him for that. I still think Harry's a good kid. He's just a bit . . . selfish. He never seems to consider anyone else's POV but his own. However, I will say that GoF will probably mature him considerably. Cedric's death should help him understand that he's not the only person hurt because of Voldemort's actions. I still can't understand why he was so immature towards Ron though. . . . I'm quite sure Ron would have ended the fight sooner had Harry not been so immature about it (the whole throwing the pin at Ron and saying 'You've always wanted a scar' bit). Anyway, I'd be interested in what other people think about this :) DrMM (testing out her new e-mail address -- wonder if the .sig works?) From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Oct 9 03:43:31 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:43:31 -0000 Subject: The Name Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse In-Reply-To: <8rr8r9+2lkg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rret3+e2v5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3022 > > Bartemius (or Bartimeus or Bartimaeus) was the blind man healed > > by Jesus. I suspect that JKR has been studying her New Testament. > > Thanks. What did JKR mean by it? I doesn't seem to me that either > Crouch was cured of blindness, even metaphorically. > It's been widely noted that JKR makes a seemingly conscious effort to name many of her characters using either classical allusions, "sound-alike" English words, or words borrowed from other languages. For example: Malfoy - bad faith (Fr.) Draco - dragon; draconian (Gr.) Severus - severe (Latin roots) Slitherin, Snape - allusions to "snake" or snake-like characteristics Minerva - goddess of wisdom, etc. Remus Lupin - wolf references (L.) Peeves - "annoying" Nagini - a kind of small cobra (Sanskrit) Sirius - Sirius is "the dog star" -- hence Sirius Black's alter ego Albus Dumbledore - "white bumblebee" (Latin / Old English) - appropriate because of the white beard and his potent "sting" Voldemort - "flight of death" (Fr.) (or vol- from L. "wish") [a few HP websites have stated that a certain "Voldemortis" was an ancient enemy of Merlin; however I have not been able to substantiate this.] At any rate, it seems that "blind" could be appropriate for both Bartemius Sr and Jr. Additionally, the New Testament Bartimeus decided to follow Jesus after his sight was restored. I see the following parallels: Crouch Sr was blinded by hatred and ambition. He was blind to his family, which drove his son into the arms of HWMNBN. He was also responsible for jailing Sirius Black "blindly" without an adequate trial. His "sight" was restored when he shook off the Imperius Curse and he went to Hogwarts; but it was too late, and he was killed before he could speak to Dumbledore. Jr was perhaps blinded by his hatred of the Death Eaters who didn't go to Azkaban but resumed their normal lives after YKW's downfall. His sight was (metaphorically) restored to him after he overcame the Imperius Curse cast by his father. However, Jr wasn't able to follow his Lord for very long before he was betrayed by a kiss from one of V's other disciples. How's that for post hoc logic? - Jim Flanagan (Irish Gaelic, "ruddy") From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 03:44:07 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:44:07 -0000 Subject: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley In-Reply-To: <007901c0319a$4a7e7520$42a2173f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8rreu7+p53j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3023 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > Wow, Peg, this was so well written. I'm impressed. I'm going to have to go back and get the other deadly sins. Is there a way to find them easily in the archive? Do I search on 'deadly sins'? > > I would really love to hear your comments on the 7 heavenly virtues. > > Donna Rae > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peg Kerr > To: HPforGrownups > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:03 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Goodness, gracious me! Yes, please let's go on to the virutes..... Dudley does seem to encompass most of them doesn't he? (perhaps not lust at this point) Where does Lockhart fall in the 7 deadly sins? Covetousness? Sloth? He is really quite a weasel... S From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 03:47:02 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:47:02 -0000 Subject: reactions to Dementors In-Reply-To: <8rreot+ulc4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rrf3m+7os4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3024 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > I was listening to CS on tape tonight while I was folding clothes > (which has become almost a fun job with HP tapes to listen to!) and > something struck me again. I had noted this in my research onths ago > and I know it's starred in my notebook, but I'd forgotten. Did anyone > else notice how Ginny reacted to the Dementor on the train? She was > much more affected than anyone else except Harry. In fact, while > Harry was described as having a seizure, she is also described as > shaking all over. Harry is the focus and everyone looks at him, but I > wonder... > Doesn't someone say that the reason that Harry responds so badly to the Dementors is because he has some major trauma that they are invoking? What trauma has Ginny experienced? (Is she the illegimate child of Dumbledore by Molly? --- just a joke) Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 03:52:21 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:52:21 -0000 Subject: everyday references to HP/toddler tales Message-ID: <8rrfdl+7eo2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3025 1) I was struggling to get my computer speakers to work, and was plugging them in and out, checking the software, etc. etc. and suddenly said "Speak to me Slytherin, greatest of the Hogwarts Four"...then started laughing. 2) My son just turned 3 and has decided to be Harry Powder for Halloween. I had not realized that he had been listening to the tapes in my partner's car, so this exchange came out of the blue for me. I had just told him he couldn't have the last three pieces of chocolate, and he was a bit upset with me. His little sister Eleanor (turned one in September) was in the computer room with me and Jesse shut the door with himself on the outside. He then opened it and shouted: "That my sister Erenor; you can't keep her in prison?" slams door shut Me: "What?" starting to laugh Opens door again.. Jesse: "That is MY sister. You can't put her in prison in Azkeban." Susan From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 9 03:54:28 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 03:54:28 -0000 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration . . . In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001008222050.00a87a10@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8rrfhk+66re@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3026 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > As I feel like being controversial today . . . > > One of the problems I have with Harry's character is the lack of > consideration he gives to others, even those who are his friends> I still think Harry's a good kid. He's just a bit . . . selfish. He never > seems to consider anyone else's POV but his own As the father of a 12-year-old and teacher of middle school kids (ages 11-14), I can say that Harry's attitudes and reactions are pretty dead on for kids that age. They are incredibly self-centered and can be numbingly insensitive. At the same time, they can be fervent about something that stikes a nerve (c.f. Hermione and the house elves). I think JKR is deftly drawing Harry's character typical of his age. Consider also that Harry's package includes an emotionally abusive upbringing, one that has isolated him from more tender feelings and taught him to internalize everything and trust no one. Notice that he doesn't tell the adults around him anything he doesn't have to, even though we all want to scream at him to just TELL SOMEONE, for pity's sake! And notice that he almost never cries, even in frightful circumstances that would make ANYONE cry, you'd think. Heck, I cry when I just READ about some of the things he goes through. Like when his mom and dad appeared from the wand? And when Hagrid gave him that photo album? I was a sniveling mess, I admit it. Even the second and third time I read it. Steve "Sensitive Guy" Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From kathleen at carr.org Mon Oct 9 03:59:12 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:59:12 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] reactions to Dementors Message-ID: <200010090402.e99428o15093@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3027 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >I was listening to CS on tape tonight while I was folding clothes >(which has become almost a fun job with HP tapes to listen to!) and >something struck me again. I had noted this in my research onths ago >and I know it's starred in my notebook, but I'd forgotten. Did anyone >else notice how Ginny reacted to the Dementor on the train? She was >much more affected than anyone else except Harry. In fact, while >Harry was described as having a seizure, she is also described as >shaking all over. Harry is the focus and everyone looks at him, but I >wonder... I assumed that Ginny's reaction was due to her experiences the previous year with Tom Riddle's diary--that was her brush with evil. I had wondered about Neville's reaction too until we found out about his parents. Kathy From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Oct 9 04:04:13 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:04:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley References: <8rreu7+p53j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E143BD.F0A35F94@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3028 Susan McGee wrote: > > Where does Lockhart fall in the 7 deadly sins? Covetousness? Sloth? > He is really quite a weasel... I put Lockhart under Gluttony. He has a bottomless appetite for adulation. Pride: message # 1553 Envy: message # 1699 Gluttony: message #1878 Lust: message # 2118 Anger: message #2545 Covetousness: message #2877 Sloth: message # 2998 From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 9 04:29:12 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 04:29:12 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <8rreai+j1fl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rrhio+nhcl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3029 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > And > here's another one: where does the spell word Alohomora come from > (opens doors)? I can't find a Latin root for it. > Here s a really off-the-wall guess: Alohomora sounds like Aloha, the Hawaiian word which means both hello and goodbye. After all, a greeting is a word which opens doors, in a way, right? Well, its a possibility, anyway. -- Joywitch From brooksar at indy.net Mon Oct 9 04:48:32 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:48:32 -0500 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration; & Finding books References: <971063234.24535@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39E14E20.7F88F9E6@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3030 > The other thing that bothers me is his thoughtlessness about Voldemort's > other victims. In SS/PS he says he's going to try and stop V because of > what Voldemort did to his parents. Have you ever read (not about Texas) _The Odessa File_? ***** For the people looking for any book, in print or out: you may have heard of abe.com, but the meta-site that covers it and several other bookstore search groups too, is: http://www.bookfinder.com WARNING: IF YOU VALUE YOUR BUDGET, DO NOT GO THERE OFTEN..... ****** -Brooks A Rowlett From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 9 05:28:46 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 05:28:46 -0000 Subject: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley In-Reply-To: <39E143BD.F0A35F94@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8rrl2e+51e0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3031 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > > Susan McGee wrote: > > > > > Where does Lockhart fall in the 7 deadly sins? Covetousness? Sloth? > > He is really quite a weasel... > > I put Lockhart under Gluttony. He has a bottomless appetite for > adulation. > Could be...but what about pride? From NdnBbyDol at aol.com Mon Oct 9 06:08:37 2000 From: NdnBbyDol at aol.com (NdnBbyDol at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 02:08:37 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 141 Message-ID: <85.136b6aa.2712bae5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3032 In a message dated 10/8/00 1:30:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: << But nowhere does it say what he remembers was one of the arguing factors for the layout of the buildings--that this was one of the first universities specifically laid out for riot control. All the original main buildings are in a loose circle around a central area, with no other natural gathering place designed in, so that if a riot or uncontrolled gathering began, it could be quickly brought under control by sealing the spaces between the buildings. A product of its time, the 1960s (he graduated in 1967 or 68, I believe), but not a fact trumpeted anywhere today. --Amanda, lover of trivia >> hi My name is Yesha..and I have been lurking around for a while on this e-group and I had to put in my two Knuts worth. The UCI historic info is correct, this summer I spent some time on campus (I live in California) and one of the student RA's commented on the structure of the school and how it came about. Amanda is quiet right, some of the buildings have long arches (which is odd because they are easy access for something like a shoot-out) and the grounds are fairly spaced out. *~* Yesha *~* From cassandraclaire at mail.com Mon Oct 9 06:45:00 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 06:45:00 -0000 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration . . . In-Reply-To: <8rrfhk+66re@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rrphc+m424@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3033 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > > As I feel like being controversial today . . . > > > > One of the problems I have with Harry's character is the lack of > > consideration he gives to others, even those who are his friends> I > still think Harry's a good kid. He's just a bit . . . selfish. He > never > > seems to consider anyone else's POV but his own > > As the father of a 12-year-old and teacher of middle school kids > (ages 11-14), I can say that Harry's attitudes and reactions are > pretty dead on for kids that age. They are incredibly self-centered > and can be numbingly insensitive. I think JKR is deftly drawing Harry's character typical > of his age... A very good point. Harry is a teenage boy, *not* an age group particularly noted for selflessness. By showing that Harry has some weaknesses, (a slightly short temper, perhaps a tiny lack of consideration...) JKR keeps him from being a saint, and therefore unrealistic. As far as Harry not giving any consideration to the other victims of Voldemort...in GoF he lies awake at night listening to Neville breathing and thinking that what happened to Neville's family is worse than what happened to his own, and feeling horribly guilty about it. And to my mind, bringing Cedric's body back to his parents at great personal risk was the ultimate act of consideration - - the act of a boy who is not just brave, but very nearly selfless. I really just don't think Harry has a mean bone in his body...and if he does, it's a very small bone, maybe a toe. cassie From donnadr at gte.net Mon Oct 9 10:10:01 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 06:10:01 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Literal interpretations? References: <8rrejr+1au4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002401c031d9$172f1640$759c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3034 Gee, Kelly, it's a wonder they don't really watch Slytherin very, very carefully. I know I would. Thanks for clarifying that for me. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelley To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 11:38 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Literal interpretations? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > I'm sorry, but didn't Hagrid say something to the effect that Slytherin produced more bad wizards than any other house? I don't remember him saying that all bad wizards came from Slytherin. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, please correct me. > > Thanks, > > Donna Rae Actually, what he says is: "There wasn't a wizard who went bad that ~wasn't~ in Slytherin." I may not have it verbatim, but the idea is correct. Kelley To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From donnadr at gte.net Mon Oct 9 10:16:48 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 06:16:48 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley References: <8rreu7+p53j@eGroups.com> <39E143BD.F0A35F94@ibm.net> Message-ID: <003401c031da$09b40c40$759c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3035 Thanks so much, Peg. That must have taken you a while to put together. I'll get them tonight after work. Thanks again, Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley Susan McGee wrote: > > Where does Lockhart fall in the 7 deadly sins? Covetousness? Sloth? > He is really quite a weasel... I put Lockhart under Gluttony. He has a bottomless appetite for adulation. Pride: message # 1553 Envy: message # 1699 Gluttony: message #1878 Lust: message # 2118 Anger: message #2545 Covetousness: message #2877 Sloth: message # 2998 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 14:13:05 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:13:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] everyday references to HP/toddler tales References: <8rrfdl+7eo2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000e01c031fb$0b98f5e0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3036 These sounds quite familiar Susan!!!! :) My son hasn't figured out HP yet--he just calls SS "Mommy's book", and tuned out the tapes when I played them while cleaning. I hope that evidently, via environment, he'll get both into reading and computer work! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 10:52 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] everyday references to HP/toddler tales 1) I was struggling to get my computer speakers to work, and was plugging them in and out, checking the software, etc. etc. and suddenly said "Speak to me Slytherin, greatest of the Hogwarts Four"...then started laughing. 2) My son just turned 3 and has decided to be Harry Powder for Halloween. I had not realized that he had been listening to the tapes in my partner's car, so this exchange came out of the blue for me. I had just told him he couldn't have the last three pieces of chocolate, and he was a bit upset with me. His little sister Eleanor (turned one in September) was in the computer room with me and Jesse shut the door with himself on the outside. He then opened it and shouted: "That my sister Erenor; you can't keep her in prison?" slams door shut Me: "What?" starting to laugh Opens door again.. Jesse: "That is MY sister. You can't put her in prison in Azkeban." Susan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 9 13:52:32 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:52:32 -0000 Subject: everyday references to HP/toddler tales In-Reply-To: <000e01c031fb$0b98f5e0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8rsij0+go2e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3037 Okay, kid stories... My son is 8 and he was experiencing what my wife and I call "The Ghandi Syndrome." When that movie came out, everyone we knew said we just HAD to go see it, so we built up this attitude about it and have not seen it to this day. We now see that happening a lot: everyone gets excited about something so there's a bit of a negative backlash. Anyhow, he just didn't think Harry Potter was anything interesting at all and thought his parents and big sister were silly for getting all worked up. He put up with us going to Borders at midnight last July but he treated the whole thing as a bit of a bore. I tried to read SS aloud to him, but he wasn't interested. And then we got the tapes. And he just happened to hear them playing as we rode in the car, as I did housework, in my office as I worked, etc. And the next thing we knew, his little red-haired head was buried in SS. Then he was playing Harry Potter with everyone in the backyard and reading the book every chance he could and carrying a wand around everywhere he went. (This is from the kid who never read more than a chapter or two of any book in his life.) He wanted me to read it to him at night before bed. He finished SS and started immediately on CS, which is where he is now. And yesterday, as we sat in a restaurant for dinner, he was the most excited about playing Harry Potter trivia, even telling me that he remembered that Uncle Vernon's desk faced away from the window in his office at Grunnings "because I remember the picture I have in my head of it." And frankly, I'm just as boggled by the fact that his 12-year-old sister read a 732-page book this summer! That's amazing too! Is this cool or what? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 9 14:01:20 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:01:20 -0000 Subject: nifty Hogwarts facts/which floor? Message-ID: <8rsj3g+ms45@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3038 Here's a couple of tidbits that I figured out recently. (I know, get a life...) The lake is to the south of the castle. (In PA, as the kids tried to find North Tower for their first Divinations class, they knew they were going south by mistake because they could see the lake out of the window) The front doors (double oak, BTW) face more or less west. (As they wait to exit to castle after having used the Time Turner, the setting sun slants in the open front doors). But here's something you British folks can help me with. Because we Yanks refer to the ground floor as the first floor, while you Brits call the floor ABOVE the ground floor the first floor, it's a bit tricky to place some of the rooms. Could you tell me where Moaning Myrtles' bathroom is? I place it on the floor you get to when you go to the top of the marble staircase (second to Yanks, first to Brits). Does that make sense? Also, do the British versions refer to Gryffindor tower's common room as being on the seventh floor, same as the American versions? If so, I'm going to assume that means the BRITISH seventh floor. I'm trying to create a concise list of which rooms are on which floors and this whole first floor/ground floor thing keeps getting in the way... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 9 14:06:19 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:06:19 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rrdk2+cj9r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E1D0DA.8F4D0B35@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3039 Susan McGee wrote: > In some ways, father and son were very much alike. Barty, senior, > was ruthless in his opposition to the Dark Lord and used inhuman > and inhumane methods to fight evil. For example, he authorized the > Aurors to kill, and he put Sirius Black in Azkaban without a trial > (hmmm..although Dumbledore says that he himself testified that Black > was the Potters secret-keeper, so is this an inconsistency or was > there a hearing at which Black was not allowed?) If this is anything like US proceedings, and being a US based lawyer with no familiarity with the UK justice system, or clearly, the Wizarding justice system which is different again, there may be a chance to "give testimony" in the form of a sworn statement, under oath - in the US, it would be signed under penalty of perjury (i.e. you could be sent to prison if you lie) - but you are only obligated to tell the truth as you know it - in other words, if you say something false (i.e. "Sirius Black was the Potters' Secret Keeper") but as far as you know it, it's true, that isn't perjury. From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 9 14:16:05 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:16:05 -0000 Subject: NEW Lexicon search Message-ID: <8rsjv5+nc3q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3040 >From some of the email I've received about the Harry Potter Lexicon, it seems that users sometimes run into trouble finding exactly what they're looking for there. It is a fairly large site and it's growing constantly. So this weekend I added a search feature to make it simple to find what you need. If you want a list of all the flavors given for Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans, for example, one quick search and you'll find the Food and Drinks page. It's not perfect, but hopefully it will make the Lexicon easier to use. Right now you can find the search page by going to the Main Index page. BTW, I post this here because I believe that this will be helpful. I don't post every time I add new information to the Lexicon (that would be every day!) or to try to beg you all to visit my site. But I have worked very hard to compile the kinds of information people are looking for on the Lexicon site and from the mail I've gotten, I know that many, many of you find it useful and entertaining. If anyone is offended by my posting references to my site, I apologize. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Oct 9 14:25:01 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 9 Oct 2000 07:25:01 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) Message-ID: <20001009142501.15401.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3041 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 9 14:38:46 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:38:46 +0100 Subject: Which floor?, Harry's lack of consideration, 7 Heavenly virtues, subjects at Hogwarts, Draco, Moody and reading (Is this subject line long enough yet?) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3042 Steve wrote: "Because we Yanks refer to the ground floor as the first floor, while you Brits call the floor ABOVE the ground floor the first floor, it's a bit tricky to place some of the rooms." Just to confuse you further - both are used in the UK so you have to be careful when referring to floor numbers. I believe this has been caused by American influence entering into the British culture. Steve wrote: "Also, do the British versions refer to Gryffindor tower's common room as being on the seventh floor, same as the American versions? If so, I'm going to assume that means the BRITISH seventh floor." It says seventh in the UK versions of the book so I would assume that this is the case. DrMM wrote: "It's Hermione who has to explain Ron's feelings to Harry (and her understanding it makes for a nice H/R arguement). And despite knowing why it has upset Ron, he's refuses to understand, instead focusing on himself and how *he's* the one insulted. And in the end it's *Ron* who is the one to end the fight." Harry has also had little interaction with either a family or friends to know how to deal with these things. Also he seems reluctant to acknowledge that he may be the one in the wrong. Peg wrote: "So: if I hear enough interested noises at the idea of my continuing these essay posts by examining the 7 Heavenly virtues, I'll take a stab at it. Let me know." Keep going. I always find it interesting to read and think about how such things apply to the HP world. Skimmel asked: "Question 1. Why is Harry taking the same courses year after year when clearly other students at the same level are taking different courses? (Lack of imagination on the part of Miss Rowling?)" I would guess that the options picked in the third year are those that are examined in the fifth year (OWL's). It would be difficult to change courses after the third year, as you would have to make up far too much work. Something that Harry would find difficult as he has little free time. Skimmel asked: "Question 2: Why did we believe Moody is Harry's friend and benefactor? Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy?" Cause Draco that is getting punished for his actions for once, instead of getting away with it. He made the mistake of taking action, against Harry, in front of a hostile teacher. Also we have heard good things about Moody, from the Weasley's, and so we are prepared to accept that he is doing the right things. Steve wrote: "And frankly, I'm just as boggled by the fact that his 12-year-old sister read a 732-page book this summer! That's amazing too!" I have a 10 and 13 year old cousins. The only reading I have seen them do for years has been to read computer games manuals or magazines. Then suddenly this summer they are reading HP (various different parts of the series). Hopefully they will have finished reading them all by now and have decided to read some more. Simon From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 9 14:52:29 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 14:52:29 -0000 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration . . . In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001008222050.00a87a10@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8rsm3d+1o5c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3043 >And in the end it's *Ron* who is the one to end the fight. >Not Harry -- Ron. As well it should be because Ron was clearly in the wrong not Harry. Ron was motivated by pure envy Harry was not. Harry was telling the truth when he said he did not put his name in the hat but Ron did not believe him. Ron did not support his best friend at the very time he desperately needed it. When Ron started to apologies Harry stopped him before he'd even finished, he instantly forgave him and never mentioned the matter again. Harry was much nicer about it than I would have been if I were in his situation. >Harry already knows that a lot of people died because of Voldemort >but the only thing that matters to him is his parents. Oh come on now. Of course the killing of your parents is going to make a larger emotional impact that the killing of strangers. Are you telling me you would be any different? From cassandraclaire at mail.com Mon Oct 9 17:24:37 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 17:24:37 -0000 Subject: A random question regarding owl post Message-ID: <8rsv0l+4d7r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3044 Hmm. I was working on a fanfic story and a question occured to me regarding owl post...in order to send a letter via owl, in the canon, is it necessary to have some kind of address to send the owl to? I know this may seem like a silly question, but IIRC, Harry just tells Hedwig "take this letter to Sirius" or some such, and the owl flies off and delivers it. Harry doesn't even know exactly where Sirius is. I suppose the question is: if you don't know precisely where someone is, can you still send them a letter via owl? From warmsley at btinternet.com Mon Oct 9 16:35:05 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:35:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A varied post on Latin Message-ID: <01c0320e$e0f41f40$0100007f@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 3045 >Lastly I was wondering if those of you who are more educated in latin >than I immediatley picked up on things such as "Remus Lupin" and knew >he was a werewolf, or associated w/ wolves, all along? > I didn't actually spot it till after the event, but I tend not to think too hard while I'm reading - prefer to let the author carry me along. I did think it was a bit silly, though... names in the real world bare no relation whatsoever to what they're like, but a recurring thing in the magical world is that they do (remus, sirius [dog star], etc [can't actually think of any more but I know there are some]) - is there a reason for this or is it just JKR playing author games? I actually had a go at rationalising remus being a werewolf in a fic; it's on FFN as Peeves_is_peeved, Remus' Christmas Stories #1. Jeremy From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Mon Oct 9 19:07:26 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:07:26 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A varied post on Latin References: <8rr8gn+g71h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3046 On 09.10.2000 at 01:54:31 Rita Winston wrote: > But left >the question, in a world in which names have **such** influence on >destiny, WHY would any parents name their little one Remus Lupin? And how are the odds that a boy with such a fateful name encounters a werewolf and gets bitten? Or perhaps "new" werewolves also get new names? Greetings Christina, the Nitpicker "Dogs come when they're called; cats take a message and get back to you later." - Mary Bly Book and movie reviews in German and English http://sites.inka.de/darwin From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Mon Oct 9 19:07:26 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:07:26 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] reactions to Dementors References: <8rreot+ulc4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3047 On 09.10.2000 at 03:41:17 Steve Vander Ark wrote: >I was listening to CS on tape tonight while I was folding clothes >(which has become almost a fun job with HP tapes to listen to!) and >something struck me again. I had noted this in my research onths ago >and I know it's starred in my notebook, but I'd forgotten. Did >anyone >else notice how Ginny reacted to the Dementor on the train? She was >much more affected than anyone else except Harry. In fact, while >Harry was described as having a seizure, she is also described as >shaking all over. Harry is the focus and everyone looks at him, but >I >wonder... I thought she reacted stronger than the others except Harry because she has been through more than Ron or Hermione. Lupin explains later that the fears of the average 13-year-olds are not that scary when Harry wonders why he reacts so strongly to the Dementors. Ginny, however, has been to the Chamber of Secrets and was nearly killed by Tom Riddle. Neville is affected more than Ron and Hermione as well, and in Book 4 we found out that his life wasn't quite as sheltered as you would think, too. That is something you can see as well when Lupin teaches his class how to handle Boggarts, IMO. Many of the students produce your average horror movie monster, but some of them have worries that are more real. Greetings Christina "Dogs come when they're called; cats take a message and get back to you later." - Mary Bly Book and movie reviews in German and English http://sites.inka.de/darwin From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 9 18:34:21 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:34:21 -0000 Subject: A random question regarding owl post In-Reply-To: <8rsv0l+4d7r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rt33d+c43k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3048 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" wrote: > I suppose the question is: if you don't know precisely where someone > is, can you still send them a letter via owl? Yes, you can. The owl is INTENDED to go to Sirius, so it does. And that makes perfect sense with the way magic works in the Wizarding World. I'll try to make this make sense (it only SORT of does for me yet). I'm writing up something about the way magic works in the Harry Potter universe for the Lexicon and here's sort of where my thinking is. I'd love input on this whole thing: It seems that in the Wizarding world, there is a certain amount of intelligence and reasoning that happens without logical processing. Stuff works because it's INTENDED to work. This stands in contrast to our scientific reality when everything works only by specific logic and pinpoint technology. Think of how literal and frustrating a computer can be sometimes. You just want to shout at the screen that it SHOULD have been able to figure out what you MEANT it to do, like if you type a filename and end it with .htmlk because you accidentally bumped the k. Why can't your computer figure out that you obviously MEANT .html. Well, in the Wizarding World, magical items DO correctly assume the intention of the action. Skele-Gro grows the correct bones, mostly because obviously those are the ones that NEED to be regrown. You drink the potion, you don't have to aim it at the arm or anything. You'd drink it the same way and it would be the same potion if you needed to regrow the bones in your leg. A potion does what it's intended to do. This is integral to magic as opposed to science. If you look at the split between magic and science that happened in our world hundreds of years ago, you see this change in thinking that happened. It made modern technology and our modern world possible. In the Wizarding World, things went the other way. And now the two worlds, though they exist side by side, find each other utterly inexplicable. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 9 18:43:03 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:43:03 -0000 Subject: Clippings From The Daily Profit Message-ID: <8rt3jn+tfib@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3049 [As you probably know Molly Weasley's book has been number one on the wizard's best seller list for 27 straight weeks now, but this is the first negative review of it I've seen. The Daily Profit people won't be happy about having their copyrighted review posted here but they can't sue me, my real name isn't eggplant] BOTTOM OF THE BIRDCAGE by Severus Snape * It seems that anyone who had even a passing acquaintance with the man is writing a book about Harry Potter, and people are actually reading the silly things too. This dismal avalanche of stale books and the unhealthy fascination the wizarding world has for Potter is a puzzlement. Far from being the most naturally talented wizard in a thousand years as many ludicrously call Harry Potter, his defeat of lord Voldamort probably had as much to do with luck as anything else, and he didn't even survive the encounter. The latest addition to this distressing trend is by Molly Weasley [MY HARRY; Popular Witchcraft Press; 236 pages, 5 galleons] Even though both books are about Potter and both are flawed nobody could confuse this insipid fluff with the scholarly tome written by her daughter in law Hermione Weasley [HARRY'S WAR, The Life And Times of Harry Potter; Hogwarts University Press; 1466 pages, 35 galleons]. At least Molly Weasley makes no pretence of being an objective impartial observer of history, she makes it clear she was always fond of Mr Potter, and after he was of some assistance to her daughter who go into a bit of trouble when she was in her first year at Hogwarts, her motherly feelings toward him really went into high gear. I'll spare you the boring details. However the book is not totally without entertainment value, in one unintentionally hilarious scene immediately after he finishes the Tri-Wizard tournament, mighty heroic Harry Potter is depicted as crying like a baby in the arms of Mrs Weasley. It seems that Harry Potter had a guilty conscience about the death of Cedric Diggory. Now that's interesting, but she does not explore this intriguing revelation in greater detail, rather we are treated to page after page of tedious preparations for the marriage between Mr. Potter and Mrs Weasley's daughter. From reading the book I'm sure Mrs Weasley found these activities delightful, but why the author thought anyone else would be interested in such an unimportant matter is a mystery, after all it never amounted to anything, the marriage only lasted a month. The only part of this long boring chapter of any interest is when she overhears Potter casually say to her son Ronald that he wants to write a will and get married as soon as possible because he doesn't expect to live much longer. It seems to me to be the height of irresponsibility to marry and father a child if you expected to get killed soon, but Mrs Weasley has perversely chosen to interpret this as heroism. Mrs. Weasley goes on and on page after uninteresting page about Mr Potter's death by lord Voldamort and the effect it had on his wife and friends, no doubt she was aiming for epic tragedy but what she achieved was maudlin claptrap. This dumpy little woman would do well to stay in the kitchen and leave the writing of books to those who have an aptitude for it. _______________ * Severus Snape is the potions master at Hogwarts School Of Witchcraft And Wizardry. His book "Manufactured Hero, the Building of the Potter Myth" will be published early next year by Slytherin Press. ==================================================================== [The day after the above review was published I found this report also in The Daily Profit, and on page one] STRANGE MALADY AFFLICTS PROFESSOR Professor Severus Snape was taken ill today as he was giving the first of a series of planed public lectures promoting his upcoming book about Harry Potter. Ronald Weasley was in the audience at the time and talked to reporters. Obviously struggling to keep his voice under control he said "It's all so very sad, he had just opened his mouth to start the lecture when his tongue started to swell, in less than a minute it was 4 feet long, then he started running around the stage dragging his tongue behind him making this odd little squeaking sound. I just happened to have my camera with me at the time and got a shot of it" see photo on page 1 "I of course have absolutely no idea what could have caused such a thing, I've never seen anything like it before in my life. It's a shame, a real shame, my entire family was so looking forward to hearing what the professor had to say about Harry. You'll have to excuse me now as I wipe a tear from my eye." Mr. Weasley's brothers Fred and George were also in the audience but were too overcome with emotion to speak to reporters. Doctors say the tongue will return to normal size in a day or two but have no explanation of why it grew so large. Professor Snape has indicated he has no plans to continue lecturing in the immediate future. From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 9 19:09:55 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:09:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011701c03224$b0c536e0$0d7b883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 3050 > > > Of course, it's strange to think that kids in the Wizarding World > > > don't know the details about this very important aspect of their own history. It doesn't surprise me. I can't remember exact dates but for a long time German children were not taught any history relating to WWII Concentration camps and the Third Reich. British Kids are rarely taught the history of colonialism and empire building certainly it is not on the National Curriculum for 5 - 16. We have a habit of not teaching about past incidents of which we are ashamed or embarrassed, or sometimes we just avoid it because the subject is still to raw and painful. I imagine after Voldemorts fall there could have been scenes in the wizarding world similar to those in France after Liberation. with collaborators punished by the resistance. Theres a kind of parallel there I suppose. Death Eaters et al as collaborators and Aurors etc as Resistance. Heather From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 20:27:49 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:27:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History, American Parallelisms. References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> <011701c03224$b0c536e0$0d7b883e@default> Message-ID: <003701c0322f$6c4225e0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3051 It wasn't until H.S. that we were taught of the horrors the US perpetrated themselves during WW2, concerning the Japanese-Americans and their camps. It doesn't matter what country you are a member of, all peoples have the possibility to treat people wrongly because of race or color, features, intelligence level, or even disability (esp. the US!). Voldemort's viewpoints are not an isolated case. Did the English/UK/British Isles do anything as bad as we during the war? Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Edmonds To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 2:09 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History > > > Of course, it's strange to think that kids in the Wizarding World > > > don't know the details about this very important aspect of their own history. It doesn't surprise me. I can't remember exact dates but for a long time German children were not taught any history relating to WWII Concentration camps and the Third Reich. British Kids are rarely taught the history of colonialism and empire building certainly it is not on the National Curriculum for 5 - 16. We have a habit of not teaching about past incidents of which we are ashamed or embarrassed, or sometimes we just avoid it because the subject is still to raw and painful. I imagine after Voldemorts fall there could have been scenes in the wizarding world similar to those in France after Liberation. with collaborators punished by the resistance. Theres a kind of parallel there I suppose. Death Eaters et al as collaborators and Aurors etc as Resistance. Heather To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 9 20:15:03 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:15:03 -0000 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration Message-ID: <8rt907+2hgh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3052 I think your points have a certain validity, but I think Ron has a lack of consideration as well. He seems to think Harry is enjoying his notoriety, the way Ron would if it were his. Ron doesn't seem to realize that Harry is still self-conscious about it, would rather be just a regular kid, and would trade it all to have what Ron has: his parents to go home to each summer. Harry *knows* that Vold has taken many loved ones from other people, but he's only fourteen, of course he's focused on his own loss. I would expect the other people who've lost loved ones to Vold are more heart-broken over their losses than Harry's. These kids are young still, as they mature it seems inevitable they will come to see each other's side. Perhaps this understanding will be a mark of their maturity. Kelley From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 9 20:24:51 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:24:51 -0500 Subject: Clippings From The Daily Profit References: <8rt3jn+tfib@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E22993.E0E92674@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3053 Hi -- Eggplant -- I'm just curious: have you only listened to the audio versions (and not read the books)? So much of your spelling is phonetic & I'm just curious. It's The Daily Prophet for example (not Profit). I know there are some people (my in-laws included) who have only listened to the books & haven't read them -- I'm wondering if that's a sizeable group or not. Anybody else who's listened to the books but not read them? The audio versions are great btw. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 9 20:21:11 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:21:11 -0500 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration . . . References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001008222050.00a87a10@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <39E228B7.2DD9DADC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3054 Hi -- DrMM wrote: > One of the problems I have with Harry's character is the lack of > consideration he gives to others, even those who are his friends. For > > example, in GoF he has absolutely no idea why Ron is so upset with > him. Despite the fact that Ron has made it obvious how overshadowed > he > feels by his brothers, Harry has no clue just how much it bothers > Ron. It's Hermione who has to explain Ron's feelings to Harry (and > her > understanding it makes for a nice H/R arguement). And despite knowing > why it has upset Ron, he's refuses to understand, instead focusing on > himself and how *he's* the one insulted. And in the end it's *Ron* > who is the one to end the fight. Not Harry -- Ron. I think Harry does have an inkling of what could be bothering Ron, even before Hermione spells it out for him. But he (Harry) is lashing out because he's upset that Ron wasn't there for him when he needed him. This seems to be a perfectly natural reaction to me. Ron was feeding his own insecurities & worrying about his own problems rather than helping out his friend. This is also a natural reaction (particularly when you consider that you're talking about 14 yr old boys here). But, that said, I think it was actually Ron who was in the wrong first, since Hermione says "Well, *of course* I knew you hadn't entered your name in the Goblet. It was obvious from the look on your face." Ron would have been (*should* have been??) drawing the same conclusions, shouldn't he? Instead, Ron turned to fretting about whether Harry was going to end up with the fame & riches that he, Ron, dreams of so often. So, even though they were *both* stubborn in prolonging a largely unnecessary argument; I would argue that Ron was in the wrong first. So . . . . maybe it is appropriate that he reaches out to Harry to end their quarrel. Ron was certainly just as guilty of lack of consideration for his friend as Harry was in the above example. This is particularly true if Hermione spelled out Harry's problems & fears to Ron, just as she did when she told Harry that Ron was jealous of him. If Hermione said, "Look, Harry didn't enter his name into that tournament, and he's *really* worried that someone has it in for him." If she did this, then Ron must have shrugged off this information & refused to believe it. Isn't that behavior equally bad? Isn't that behavior perhaps even worse than what Harry did, considering that Ron should know that his best friend is frequently a target for Voldemort & the dark forces? > I still can't understand why he was so immature towards Ron > though. . . . I'm quite sure Ron would have ended the fight sooner had > Harry not been so immature about it (the whole throwing the pin at Ron > and saying 'You've always wanted a scar' bit). > Well -- he was angry at that point. He was scared stiff of the dragons and the only adult figure he felt comfortable turning to has just had to flee because someone (Ron!) was approaching the common room. Yes, he lost his temper, but I thought his reaction was extremely natural. He's gone through weeks of being very isolated, with only Hermione for company & with virtually everyone else allied actively against him. His nerves were probably shot. Of course, he lashed out at Ron. I also agree with Steve -- they are both adolescent boys. Consideration of others, particularly in moments of personal stress, is probably not a terribly common characteristic for boys that age. Your message seems to indicate that this is one of several examples that you could point to that evidence Harry's inconsiderate nature, Dr. MM. I'd love to hear some others. I've never thought of him as an inconsiderate person, and I don't think the argument with Ron is evidence of a basic character flaw in Harry (not unless you attribute the same character flaw to Ron in that case). He may be guilty of inconsiderate moments -- but aren't we all as a general rule? Have you never, not even once, been even inadvertently inconsiderate of someone's feelings? I just don't think he's at base inconsiderate. He's just guilty of being a teenage boy who's had more than his share of troubles to preoccupy his time. > The other thing that bothers me is his thoughtlessness about > Voldemort's > other victims. In SS/PS he says he's going to try and stop V because > of > what Voldemort did to his parents. Harry already knows that a lot of > people died because of Voldemort but the only thing that matters to > him is his parents. Now, I'll give him a break in the first one > because he was just a kid, but in the later books he never seems to > think about anyone else either. (This has led to a line in a fic I'm > working on where Dumbledore says "You're not the only one who lost > someone you loved to > Voldemort. Never forget that.") Harry does seem to forget that and I > can never quite forgive him for that. I agree with Cassandra -- he does think alot in GoF about Neville & Cedric. He takes himself to task for failing to have ever inquired about Neville's circumstances. So, he does *recognize* that he's been guilty of being preoccupied -- worrying about his own troubles without considering that others might have their own large worries. He's at the right age to start coming to terms with that, as he matures. It seems to me that you're expecting an awful lot of him really. He is a flawed hero -- he's human. It would really be a bit unrealistic if JKR drew him with no faults whatever -- that would probably prompt more criticism than his, on the whole, relatively minor & understandable flaws. He does have a conscience -- we see evidence of that when Lupin lectures him for sneaking off to Hogsmeade. The person you're describing is a self-absorbed, shallow person who takes himself entirely too seriously. I don't see Harry that way at all. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 9 20:26:46 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:26:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A random question regarding owl post References: <8rsv0l+4d7r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E22A06.59589441@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3055 Hi -- Cassandra Claire wrote: > I suppose the question is: if you don't know precisely where someone > is, can you still send them a letter via owl? Yes, I think so. See Ch 2 of GoF -- "Wherever Dumbledore was though, Harry was sure that Hedwig would be able to find him; Harry's owl had never yet failed to deliver a letter to anyone, even without an address." Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 20:33:17 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:33:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: reactions to Dementors References: <8rrf3m+7os4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E22B8D.C1E36FB4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3056 Susan McGee wrote: > Doesn't someone say that the reason that Harry responds so badly > to the Dementors is because he has some major trauma that they are > invoking? What trauma has Ginny experienced? Good heavens, she's the younger sister of six brothers, and you have to ask that? Even knowing two of them are Fred and George? I put her reaction down to her youth and un-sureness of herself yet (so it's easier to be lost in the reaction to the dementors), and the trauma of what happened in the whole Chamber of Secrets episode. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 20:38:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:38:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's lack of consideration . . . References: <8rrphc+m424@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E22CDA.F651F14C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3057 Cassandra Claire wrote: > A very good point. Harry is a teenage boy, *not* an age group > particularly noted for selflessness. By showing that Harry has some > weaknesses, (a slightly short temper, perhaps a tiny lack of > consideration...) JKR keeps him from being a saint, and therefore > unrealistic. As far as Harry not giving any consideration to the > other victims of Voldemort...in GoF he lies awake at night listening > to Neville breathing and thinking that what happened to Neville's > family is worse than what happened to his own, and feeling horribly > guilty about it. And to my mind, bringing Cedric's body back to his > parents at great personal risk was the ultimate act of consideration - > - the act of a boy who is not just brave, but very nearly selfless. I > really just don't think Harry has a mean bone in his body...and if he > does, it's a very small bone, maybe a toe. Also remember that for Harry, socialization and handling friendships are things he's just now learning. Most of the rest of us learn our interpersonal skills a lot earlier. Harry's not fine-tuning them, like most kids his age, he's *acquiring* them, so some actions that seem obvious to us just don't occur to him. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 20:45:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:45:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's lack of consideration . . . References: <8rsm3d+1o5c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E22E83.E520341D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3058 eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > As well it should be because Ron was clearly in the wrong not Harry. > Ron was motivated by pure envy Harry was not. Harry was telling the > truth when he said he did not put his name in the hat but Ron did not > believe him. Ron did not support his best friend at the very time he > desperately needed it. When Ron started to apologies Harry stopped > him before he'd even finished, he instantly forgave him and never > mentioned the matter again. Harry was much nicer about it than I > would have been if I were in his situation. Eggplant's got a really good point. Ron was in the wrong, even if he had a really understandable reason. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 20:48:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:48:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A varied post on Latin References: <01c0320e$e0f41f40$0100007f@warmsley> Message-ID: <39E22F12.CD4150C0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3059 Warmsley wrote: > I did think it was a bit silly, though... names in the real > world bare no relation whatsoever to what they're like, I beg to differ. It's not anywhere near as clear-cut as JKR's naming, but I've come across loads of people whose name "fits." I can't explain it, nor is it invariably true, but it's often the case. --Amanda, always flattered when people tell her *her* name fits From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 20:51:44 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:51:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A random question regarding owl post References: <8rt33d+c43k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E22FE0.81F5380C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3060 I will add to the eloquent Steve's reply, the fact that these are not garden-variety owls. They seem to have a bit more upstairs than your average bird. Perhaps owl post is a gentle form of "unwanded" magic, so low-level as to be unnoticeable by those doing the sending? Because the owls seem to know how to do things and find people and take action when needed. --Amanda Steve Vander Ark wrote: > Yes, you can. The owl is INTENDED to go to Sirius, so it does. And > that makes perfect sense with the way magic works in the Wizarding > World. > > I'll try to make this make sense (it only SORT of does for me yet). > I'm writing up something about the way magic works in the Harry > Potter universe for the Lexicon and here's sort of where my thinking > is. I'd love input on this whole thing: > > It seems that in the Wizarding world, there is a certain amount of > intelligence and reasoning that happens without logical processing. > Stuff works because it's INTENDED to work. This stands in contrast to > our scientific reality when everything works only by specific logic > and pinpoint technology. Think of how literal and frustrating a > computer can be sometimes. You just want to shout at the screen that > it SHOULD have been able to figure out what you MEANT it to do, like > if you type a filename and end it with .htmlk because you > accidentally bumped the k. Why can't your computer figure out that > you obviously MEANT .html. Well, in the Wizarding World, magical > items DO correctly assume the intention of the action. Skele-Gro > grows the correct bones, mostly because obviously those are the ones > that NEED to be regrown. You drink the potion, you don't have to aim > it at the arm or anything. You'd drink it the same way and it would > be the same potion if you needed to regrow the bones in your leg. A > potion does what it's intended to do. This is integral to magic as > opposed to science. > > If you look at the split between magic and science that happened in > our world hundreds of years ago, you see this change in thinking that > happened. It made modern technology and our modern world possible. In > the Wizarding World, things went the other way. And now the two > worlds, though they exist side by side, find each other utterly > inexplicable. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 9 20:57:13 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:57:13 -0000 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration . . . In-Reply-To: <39E228B7.2DD9DADC@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8rtbf9+qrbj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3061 >in GoF he has absolutely no idea why Ron is so upset with >him. Despite the fact that Ron has made it obvious how overshadowed >he feels by his brothers, Harry has no clue just how much it bothers >Ron. Not so. Ron was being an ass, Harry may have understood why Ron was being an ass, but that doesn't make Ron any less of an ass. Ron was jealous of Harry's fame it's as simple as that, envy doesn't seem to ever be a motivating factor for Harry. When Harry was going through hell Ron gave him absolutely no support, I think Harry's behavior toward Ron borders on the saintly. From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 21:17:14 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:17:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Links Message-ID: <20001009211714.23118.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3062 --- Donna Rae wrote: > I found something interesting today and wanted to let everyone in on it. > Now, remember, I'm new here, so excuse me if this has already been > posted. > > This is the IMDB page for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. > > http://us.imdb.com/Title?0241527 > > There are so many links from this page, that you could spend hours > there. There are: I am impressed! John Williams for music (love his soundtracks for E.T., Jurassic Park, and the Star Wars movies)! Mini-Me as Peeves (although, Austin Powers 2 disapointed me so much that I almost whimpered in the theater)! Did the books describe Peeves as short? I may have missed it in all the action of the books. And of course, Chris Columbus (Home Alone-great movie). From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 21:00:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:00:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A varied post on Latin References: <8rregb+qfd5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E231F5.DEA2E3EC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3063 Susan McGee wrote: > Anyway Ludo of course stands for play but does Bagman refer to his > gambling? Minerva - quite a compliment to McGonagall....But is Avada > Kedava (spelling?) Latin??????? I thought Avada Kedavra was intended to be interpreted as the un-garbled, original form of the standard "magic word" abracadabra. This might be a bit of dark humor, that the spell word that the Muggle children use in making pretend magic is an echo of the most dangerous curse there is in the wizarding world. It could easily have leaked over; if you were with your brother in the forest, and disturbed an evil old hermit, and he cursed your brother dead, you'd probably remember (albeit in garbled form) the words he used. Such situations could easily have happened, as various evil wizards went on the rampage (or just got teed off for whatever reason). And thus would the garbled form, abracadabra, have entered the Muggle folklore. My theory. Thoughts? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 9 21:01:59 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:01:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley References: <8rrl2e+51e0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E23247.EEA88C61@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3064 Susan McGee wrote: > > > I put Lockhart under Gluttony. He has a bottomless appetite for > > adulation. > > Could be...but what about pride? He has no pride. He'd stoop to anything to feed his appetite for attention. Pomposity and pridefulness are not the same thing. --Amanda From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 21:22:43 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry as Pop Icon Message-ID: <20001009212243.24937.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3065 > Sigh, on the one hand, I do get sick of popular > culture/commercialization...selling everything. > > However, we had one of the first Hogwarts teeshirts in town, and it > got amazing results...we immediately found all the other PotterHeads > and got into animated discussions. Well, t-shirts rule and I would love to have a HP shirt, but EVERYTHING HP can get annoyingly crazy. For instance, I live in Kansas City (this goes with any American Football town) and there are KC Chief crap everywhere. Shower curtains, and even a crock-pot (sp?). I can imagine a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. "What better way to cook your roasts than with a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. You can guarentee your little wizards and witches will want to eat their dinners now! Don't be a Muggle; buy your Hogwarts Crock-Pot today! Available at your nearest retail store!" From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From lj2d30 at gateway.net Mon Oct 9 21:09:13 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:09:13 -0000 Subject: reactions to Dementors In-Reply-To: <8rrf3m+7os4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rtc5p+5bnr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3066 > > Doesn't someone say that the reason that Harry responds so badly > to the Dementors is because he has some major trauma that they are > invoking? What trauma has Ginny experienced? Surely you jest!? Isn't being duped by Lord Voldemort and used as his stoolie to re-open the Chamber of Secrets trauma enough? Not to mention being taken down into the CoS to die?! I'd say she has some hideous memories to cause her to react just as violently to the Dementors as Harry has. Trina From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 9 21:27:03 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's lack of consideration . . . Message-ID: <20001009212703.25703.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3067 --- Steve Vander Ark wrote: And notice that he almost never cries, > even in frightful circumstances that would make ANYONE cry, you'd > think. Heck, I cry when I just READ about some of the things he goes > through. Like when his mom and dad appeared from the wand? And when > Hagrid gave him that photo album? I was a sniveling mess, I admit it. > Even the second and third time I read it. I may be wrong here, but in England (PLEASE correct me) are boys taught to be more "manly" with their feelings than in America? America used to have those lessons taught in boys very early, but latley we've gone to the "Show your emotions! Everyone's a winner!" motif. But maybe I'm being controversial today. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 9 21:57:27 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:57:27 -0000 Subject: Voldemort as History In-Reply-To: <011701c03224$b0c536e0$0d7b883e@default> Message-ID: <8rtf07+o7gu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3068 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Heather Edmonds" wrote: > We have a habit of not teaching about past incidents > of which we are ashamed or embarrassed, or sometimes we just avoid it > because the subject is still to raw and painful. That is so true! I learned tons of stuff about WWII in school, but didnt learn until I was in college that the U.S. had put Japanese- American citizens in concentration camps during the war, because no one ever talked about it. > To get this back to HP, another part of the reason that Voldemorts history is not discussed IMHO is because the British Wizarding Worlds nominal leader, Cornelius Fudge, is in total denial about the possibility of his return. As some one who works in the environmental field, it kind of reminds me of the attitudes of many of our leaders towards environmental problems like global warming. Oh no, that wont happen, or if it does we can handle it, no need to prepare for it or worry about it, those people who say its a problem are just doom and gloomers, dont worry, be happy, make money..... -- Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 9 22:10:30 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:10:30 -0000 Subject: HP4G-ups Awards Message-ID: <8rtfom+ceq3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3069 I was reading the latest (last few days) group of posts and I was really impressed by the imagination of the people in this group. During an email exchange with Steve about his HP Lexicon, I pointed out that Steve is absolutely the most HP obsessed person I have seen. This is based on his wonderful, extensive Lexicon website, and his constant perusal of questions such as *What floor is Myrtles bathroom on?*. It struck me that several other people on this group deserve some awards. Here are a few: Most Obsessed: Steve Funniest: Neil Leadership: Penny Most Thought-Provoking: Peg Most Insane: Eggplant (Note: Thats a compliment, eggplant. Really.) I am sure I have left many deserving people out of this little awards ceremony. And if you all want to go ahead and give me the award for Most Useless Posts, go ahead. Make my day. -- Joywitch From NdnBbyDol at aol.com Mon Oct 9 22:33:19 2000 From: NdnBbyDol at aol.com (NdnBbyDol at aol.com) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 18:33:19 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 144 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3070 In a message dated 10/9/00 1:27:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: << A very good point. Harry is a teenage boy, *not* an age group particularly noted for selflessness. By showing that Harry has some weaknesses, (a slightly short temper, perhaps a tiny lack of consideration...) JKR keeps him from being a saint, and therefore unrealistic. As far as Harry not giving any consideration to the other victims of Voldemort...in GoF he lies awake at night listening to Neville breathing and thinking that what happened to Neville's family is worse than what happened to his own, and feeling horribly guilty about it. And to my mind, bringing Cedric's body back to his parents at great personal risk was the ultimate act of consideration - - the act of a boy who is not just brave, but very nearly selfless. I really just don't think Harry has a mean bone in his body...and if he does, it's a very small bone, maybe a toe. cassie >> These are all very good points. Harry also gives the money from the Triwizard Tournament to Fred and George and asks them to buy Ron new dress robes w/o him knowing they were from Harry. If Ron found out they were from Harry he would probably not accept them and once again the touchy subject of Ron's family being poor would have been addressed. I dont know this gesture has always struck me as very caring and generous. *~* Yesha *~* From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 9 22:41:30 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:41:30 -0000 Subject: nifty Hogwarts facts/which floor? In-Reply-To: <8rsj3g+ms45@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rthiq+dshb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3071 Might not be your only problem. Hogwarts seems to experience a less dramatic effect of "shifting locations" similar to what happens to the rooms in the ID Headquarters in PoU, which continuously and randomly change their relative position. It happens much less frequently, haphazardly, or confusingly at Hogwarts, but wasn't it mentioned in the first book that different staircases lead differently places on different days of the week, and things of that sort? This might help protect the common rooms from people in the other Houses: only the people in a particular house would know the pattern of locations their common room folows. Which helps explain why Ron and Harry had to be shown where the Slytherin common room was in CoS. Places like prefects' bathrooms might be protected the same way from being used by the wrong people (of course, a good lock that is protected against magical tampering might help, too :-)) From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 9 23:44:52 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:44:52 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <8rr6s9+q1bg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rtl9k+p9jf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3072 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Well, this post is on latin and probably should tie into Harry > Potter. The first part however errr,doesn't (really). We ,the 1st > year latin students, have been slaves for the past week to the older > latin students. It will conclude with the initiation on tues. (to > which we have to to wear togas/tunics...wish me luck!). I wonder if > 1st yrs. at Hogworts are put through any peer intiation? You bring up and interesting thought about hazing, er..."peer initiation". I attended a small women's college in a large city and recall a dreadful week of "peer initation" that included a 6: 30 AM "jog" around the perimeter of the campus. (Not much fun running around the campus in one's bathrobe to the catcalls and jeers of morning commuters! Though I'm sure some motorists found about 100 18 year old women in bathrobes and pajamas running around the perimeter of the campus a welcome change to the usual traffic). Maybe Hogwarts has a ban on hazing? Or maybe they think the Sorting Ceremony is hazing enough? From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 9 23:51:41 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 23:51:41 -0000 Subject: reactions to Dementors In-Reply-To: <8rtc5p+5bnr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rtlmd+1naq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3073 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > > > > Doesn't someone say that the reason that Harry responds so badly > > to the Dementors is because he has some major trauma that they are > > invoking? What trauma has Ginny experienced? > > Surely you jest!? Isn't being duped by Lord Voldemort and used as > his stoolie to re-open the Chamber of Secrets trauma enough? Not to > mention being taken down into the CoS to die?! I'd say she has some > hideous memories to cause her to react just as violently to the > Dementors as Harry has. > > Trina It would be interesting to see what Ginny's boggart would be. Perhaps it would be Voldemort (as Tom Riddle) or the Chamber of Secrets??? I have a hard time believing that her brothers are particularly mean to her. In PS/SS, Fred, George and Ron tell her not to cry and that they will send her owls. Ron doesn't seem to torment her that much either. In fact, her brothers are rather protective of her as witnessed in GoF when Fred and George grab her hand and run with her into the woods. From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 00:19:13 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:19:13 -0000 Subject: Halloween candy (semi-OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rtna1+oesg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3074 Dear friends, I have been surprisingly swamped with work this semester and have not kept very up to date with messages. Please forgive me. I read this message from Sister Mary Lunatic (I also love the Oriental Trading Co. but haven't received the catalog in a while!) which led me to wonder: Why haven't they made any of the great Hogsmeade candy for Halloween? Chocolate frogs, peppermint toads, ice mice, sugar quills...mmmmm. Hasta pronto, Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > This is Off Topic, but sorta relevent.... I just got my latest catalog from > the Oriental Trading Company -- and if any of you are looking for a great > source for goodies for a Halloween party for kids OR adults, this is the > place. Where else can you get a dozen glow-in-the-dark bouncing eyeballs > for only six dollars? LOL > > You can check them out at http://www.oriental.com but it's really worth the > $2.00 to order a catalog subscription -- they send one out before every > major holiday. They sell costumes, toys, candy, stickers, party favors, > etc. Great fun -- almost makes me wish I knew some kids (NOT!). From donnadr at gte.net Tue Oct 10 00:19:59 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:19:59 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's lack of consideration References: <8rt907+2hgh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007f01c0324f$d5a8f980$d52c193f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3075 Thank you Kelley...very well said. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelley To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 4:15 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's lack of consideration I think your points have a certain validity, but I think Ron has a lack of consideration as well. He seems to think Harry is enjoying his notoriety, the way Ron would if it were his. Ron doesn't seem to realize that Harry is still self-conscious about it, would rather be just a regular kid, and would trade it all to have what Ron has: his parents to go home to each summer. Harry *knows* that Vold has taken many loved ones from other people, but he's only fourteen, of course he's focused on his own loss. I would expect the other people who've lost loved ones to Vold are more heart-broken over their losses than Harry's. These kids are young still, as they mature it seems inevitable they will come to see each other's side. Perhaps this understanding will be a mark of their maturity. Kelley To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From donnadr at gte.net Tue Oct 10 00:28:29 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:28:29 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Links References: <20001009211714.23118.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009501c03251$03d67520$d52c193f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3076 Hi, Anake... I always picture Peeves as the little green slime guy in Ghostbusters...hee, hee, hee.... Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Anake To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 5:17 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Links --- Donna Rae wrote: > I found something interesting today and wanted to let everyone in on it. > Now, remember, I'm new here, so excuse me if this has already been > posted. > > This is the IMDB page for Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. > > http://us.imdb.com/Title?0241527 > > There are so many links from this page, that you could spend hours > there. There are: I am impressed! John Williams for music (love his soundtracks for E.T., Jurassic Park, and the Star Wars movies)! Mini-Me as Peeves (although, Austin Powers 2 disapointed me so much that I almost whimpered in the theater)! Did the books describe Peeves as short? I may have missed it in all the action of the books. And of course, Chris Columbus (Home Alone-great movie). From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From donnadr at gte.net Tue Oct 10 00:33:13 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:33:13 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry as Pop Icon References: <20001009212243.24937.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009d01c03251$ad946fe0$d52c193f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3077 Of course you know, Anake, that you can sell anything if you market it right. Remember the movie "Wag the Dog"? Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Anake To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry as Pop Icon > Sigh, on the one hand, I do get sick of popular > culture/commercialization...selling everything. > > However, we had one of the first Hogwarts teeshirts in town, and it > got amazing results...we immediately found all the other PotterHeads > and got into animated discussions. Well, t-shirts rule and I would love to have a HP shirt, but EVERYTHING HP can get annoyingly crazy. For instance, I live in Kansas City (this goes with any American Football town) and there are KC Chief crap everywhere. Shower curtains, and even a crock-pot (sp?). I can imagine a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. "What better way to cook your roasts than with a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. You can guarentee your little wizards and witches will want to eat their dinners now! Don't be a Muggle; buy your Hogwarts Crock-Pot today! Available at your nearest retail store!" From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Oct 10 01:27:52 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:27:52 -0000 Subject: Harry's lack of consideration In-Reply-To: <007f01c0324f$d5a8f980$d52c193f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8rtrao+it4v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3078 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > Thank you Kelley...very well said. > > Donna Rae Thank ~you~ Donna Rae. It's very appreciated. Kelley From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Oct 10 01:40:53 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:40:53 -0000 Subject: Literal interpretations? In-Reply-To: <002401c031d9$172f1640$759c0b3f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8rts35+ber4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3079 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > Gee, Kelly, it's a wonder they don't really watch Slytherin very, very carefully. I know I would. Thanks for clarifying that for me. > > Donna Rae Boy, no kidding. I would hope Dumble is keeping an eye on the children of DE's. Of course, as others have pointed out, Hagrid may be prone to a little exaggeration. He may not be the most reliable source; having said that, ~I~ believe him. ;o] Can anyone think of an instance when he's been incorrect, or even off a bit on his facts? I'm about halfway through SS again, I'll try to keep an eye out. Kelley From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 01:54:54 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:54:54 -0000 Subject: Smart Ravenclaws Message-ID: <8rtste+5pu1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3080 This is sort of in response to an old post but bear with me- Some people had mentioned that all the Ravenclaws must be as smart, if not smarter than Hermione. I don't however agree, and I interpret Ravenclaws as being one of these things.... Ravenclaws are the people who put their "scholarly-ness" first. Above say, friends or Quidditch. I don't really know if you'd say that the books support this however. Far more likely, IMO, is that the Ravenclaws are those that think/ make choices with their heads; opposed to Gryffindor who make decision/choices with their hearts. After all Dumbledore says that choices, not ablilities are what determine a person. And it just sort of makes sense that that is what the houses are based on. If I said ALL Gryffindors were brave, and ALL Slytherin's were sneaky/cunning (though at this point they seem to be) then that would basically be going against the tide of what Dumbledore is trying to convey. More likely is that the Houses represent the emotions that induvidually drive the characters...Example Harry goes after the PS/SS in the book of that name, because (paraphrased) "Voldemort killed my parents and I'm not going to let him get away w/ this." No arguement- Harry's decisions come from his heart. Another example, and this is probably stretching it, the people (what was his name, Justin Finch Fletchly) who we see as ostracizing Harry in CoS was in Hufflepuff. He was making a decision, to doubt Harry, because his loyalties lie on the side of good, and he was afraid Harry might of been evil. No "Hmmmm, lets see V. killed parents, why would he be working for him?" reasoning, (A characteristic of Ravenclaw). Other examples- Cedric's modesty about winning the Quidditch match, from PoA....There are plenty other examples, Draco challenging Harry to a duel in PS/SS and not showing up, he made THAT descion because he is cunning ( and also because he's well, Draco...) Scott From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 10 02:24:23 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:24:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's lack of consideration . . . References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001008222050.00a87a10@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <39E27DD7.21B59FCA@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3081 DrMM wrote: > One of the problems I have with Harry's character is the lack of > consideration he gives to others, even those who are his friends. I think you have to remember where he's starting from. I see the books as the story of his progression toward becoming a moral person. He started with the Dursleys, who did their best to teach him: you don't count. Don't count on anyone else. Don't trust anyone else. Don't think about anyone else's feelings--we certainly don't think about yours. Total amoral selfishness. So now he's been moved to a new environment where he has new, exciting powers--and he's starting to build an ethical system for how to use them, and how to interact with other people. And frankly, I think he's doing a pretty good job of it, considering where he came from. I see it as a progression. He is starting to trust, to love, to consider other people's points of view. When he realized that he had never given a thought to why Neville wasn't being raised by his parents, he is ashamed of himself, and that shame is why I have a great deal of hope for Harry. He is aware that he has shortcomings; he worries about that, about the capacity for evil/selfishness/taking the easy way out/lying that he sees in himself. Sometimes he makes the right choice, and sometimes he doesn't. But he's trying, and as a result, I think he is going to be a pretty decent person someday. Peg From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 10 02:23:55 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:23:55 -0000 Subject: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley In-Reply-To: <39E23247.EEA88C61@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rtujr+gb6i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3082 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > > > > I put Lockhart under Gluttony. He has a bottomless appetite for > > > adulation. > > > > Could be...but what about pride? > > He has no pride. He'd stoop to anything to feed his appetite for > attention. Pomposity and pridefulness are not the same thing. > > --Amanda In the Bible, pride is a bad thing (pride goes before a fall). It's not the modern viewpoint that it's good to be proud of yourself, and to have pride in your work. It's more like vainglory..that you pump yourself up at others' expense. So I do think pride is one of Lockhart's sins...... From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 02:37:01 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:37:01 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3083 me too! i never knew there were seven heavanly virtues (my religious ed is lacking) storm ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Denise Rogers" Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:18:26 -0500 So: if I hear enough interested noises at the idea of my continuing these essay posts by examining the 7 Heavenly virtues, I'll take a stab at it. Let me know. Peg YES YES YES YES YES YES YES Does that count as 7 noises? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 10 02:42:53 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:42:53 -0000 Subject: Moody's treatment of Malfoy/Harry's mistrust of adults/Harry's consideration In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8rtvnd+nk80@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3084 > > > > Keep going. I always find it interesting to read and think about > I Skimmel asked: "Question 2: Why did we believe Moody is Harry's friend and benefactor? Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy?">>> > > Cause Draco that is getting punished for his actions for once, instead of getting away with it. He made the mistake of taking action, against Harry, in front of a hostile teacher. Also we have heard good things about Moody, from the Weasley's, and so we are prepared to accept that he is doing the right things.>>>> Oh, I think we're just dying to see Malfoy caught and punished for once. We constantly hear him taunting Ron (really going for the jugular). When Ron said it was the best day of his life to see Malfoy bouncing, I thought so too! When Moody said it was a scummy, cowardly thing to attack someone from behind, I was delighted that SOMEONE in authority --- other than Hagrid -- was confronting Malfoy. Snape supports the little lickspittle (why don't YOU apply for headmaster, sir, you'd have my FATHER's support). I LOVED it when Malfoy muttered something about his father and Moody said something like yeah, well I know your father, tell him I'm watching his son. Moody is also portrayed as a maverick, an eccentric (drinking from his hip flask, having a magic eye) so we're set up to expect him to be unusual. However, his behavior against Malfoy is wrong. McGonagall immediately calls him on it. It's not okay to fight fire with fire..and in fact Moody was one of the Aurors who did not kill Death- Eaters unless he had to..... Harry's distrust of adults. I, too, was yelling "Tell someone! Tell Dumbledore", particularly in the earlier books, but a recent post reminded me that Harry had no reason to trust adults. None had intervened on his behalf when he was treated so badly by Dudley and his parents. He figures he's on his own. It's wonderful to see him start to trust Lupin, confide in Sirius, talk more to Dumbledore, get emotional support from Molly Harry's fight with Ron Harry is not the perfect hero. I don't really see how he could have handled the fight with Ron better. Ron got consumed by that deadly sin of envy. If Harry had approached him earlier, Ron would have rejected him. However, I know many adults who do not have the social skills to resolve such a quarrel -- this must be a very civilized group. Reading. Did kids really read more when we were growing up? (I may do a couple of polls). I remember being fairly rare in my obsession with books and reading, most of my peers did not read. It was great fun finally finding other people who did in high school and college. Still, many people I know don't read regularly. Susan > > Steve wrote: "And frankly, I'm just as boggled by the fact that his > 12-year-old sister read a 732-page book this summer! That's amazing too!" > > I have a 10 and 13 year old cousins. The only reading I have seen them do for years has been to read computer games manuals or magazines. Then suddenly this summer they are reading HP (various different parts of the series). Hopefully they will have finished reading them all by now and have decided to read some more. > > Simon From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 10 02:42:37 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:42:37 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry as Pop Icon Message-ID: <200010100247.e9A2lmo26809@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3085 >I can imagine a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. >"What better way to cook your roasts than with a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. You can >guarentee your little wizards and witches will want to eat their dinners now! Don't >be a Muggle; buy your Hogwarts Crock-Pot today! Available at your nearest retail >store!" > >From, > >Anake > LOL! I can just see it: "Don't work the day away like a house-elf...let the Hogwarts Crock Pot whip up a magical feast!" kathy From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 10 02:48:31 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:48:31 -0000 Subject: Clippings From The Daily Profit In-Reply-To: <8rt3jn+tfib@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ru01v+krqv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3086 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > [As you probably know Molly Weasley's book has been number one on the > wizard's best seller list for 27 straight weeks now, but this is the > first negative review of it I've seen. The Daily Profit people won't > be happy about having their copyrighted review posted here but they > can't sue me, my real name isn't eggplant] > > BOTTOM OF THE BIRDCAGE > by Severus Snape * > > It seems that anyone who had even a passing acquaintance with the man > is writing a book about Harry Potter, and people are actually reading > the silly things too. This dismal avalanche of stale books and the > unhealthy fascination the wizarding world has for Potter is a > puzzlement. Far from being the most naturally talented wizard in a > thousand years as many ludicrously call Harry Potter, his defeat of > lord Voldamort probably had as much to do with luck as anything else, > and he didn't even survive the encounter. The latest addition to this > distressing trend is by Molly Weasley [MY HARRY; Popular Witchcraft > Press; 236 pages, 5 galleons] Even though both books are about Potter > and both are flawed nobody could confuse this insipid fluff with the > scholarly tome written by her daughter in law Hermione Weasley > [HARRY'S WAR, The Life And Times of Harry Potter; Hogwarts University > Press; 1466 pages, 35 galleons]. At least Molly Weasley makes no > pretence of being an objective impartial observer of history, she > makes it clear she was always fond of Mr Potter, and after he was of > some assistance to her daughter who go into a bit of trouble when she > was in her first year at Hogwarts, her motherly feelings toward him > really went into high gear. I'll spare you the boring details. > > However the book is not totally without entertainment value, in one > unintentionally hilarious scene immediately after he finishes the > Tri-Wizard tournament, mighty heroic Harry Potter is depicted as > crying like a baby in the arms of Mrs Weasley. It seems that Harry > Potter had a guilty conscience about the death of Cedric Diggory. Now > that's interesting, but she does not explore this intriguing > revelation in greater detail, rather we are treated to page after > page of tedious preparations for the marriage between Mr. Potter and > Mrs Weasley's daughter. From reading the book I'm sure Mrs Weasley > found these activities delightful, but why the author thought anyone > else would be interested in such an unimportant matter is a mystery, > after all it never amounted to anything, the marriage only lasted a > month. The only part of this long boring chapter of any interest is > when she overhears Potter casually say to her son Ronald that he > wants to write a will and get married as soon as possible because he > doesn't expect to live much longer. It seems to me to be the height > of irresponsibility to marry and father a child if you expected to > get killed soon, but Mrs Weasley has perversely chosen to interpret > this as heroism. > > Mrs. Weasley goes on and on page after uninteresting page about > Mr Potter's death by lord Voldamort and the effect it had on his wife > and friends, no doubt she was aiming for epic tragedy but what she > achieved was maudlin claptrap. This dumpy little woman would do well > to stay in the kitchen and leave the writing of books to those who > have an aptitude for it. > > _______________ > * Severus Snape is the potions master at Hogwarts School Of > Witchcraft And Wizardry. His book "Manufactured Hero, the Building of > the Potter Myth" will be published early next year by Slytherin > Press. > > ==================================================================== > [The day after the above review was published I found this report > also in The Daily Profit, and on page one] > > > STRANGE MALADY AFFLICTS PROFESSOR > > Professor Severus Snape was taken ill today as he was giving the > first of a series of planed public lectures promoting his upcoming > book about Harry Potter. Ronald Weasley was in the audience at the > time and talked to reporters. Obviously struggling to keep his voice > under control he said "It's all so very sad, he had just opened his > mouth to start the lecture when his tongue started to swell, in less > than a minute it was 4 feet long, then he started running around the > stage dragging his tongue behind him making this odd little squeaking > sound. I just happened to have my camera with me at the time and got > a shot of it" see photo on page 1 "I of course have absolutely no > idea what could have caused such a thing, I've never seen anything > like it before in my life. It's a shame, a real shame, my entire > family was so looking forward to hearing what the professor had to > say about Harry. You'll have to excuse me now as I wipe a tear from > my eye." Mr. Weasley's brothers Fred and George were also in the > audience but were too overcome with emotion to speak to reporters. > Doctors say the tongue will return to normal size in a day or two but > have no explanation of why it grew so large. Professor Snape has > indicated he has no plans to continue lecturing in the immediate > future. I think this was hilarious. Are we sure that the Daily Prophet becoming the Daily Profit was not intentional? Never mind, eggplant,some people will be terribly aggravated that you imply that Harry married Ginny and not Hermione. Susan From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 10 02:42:20 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:42:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Emerald House Rising References: Message-ID: <39E2820C.12243926@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3087 Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > . What I'd also really enjoy is to read your book > "Emerald House Rising" which I've had on order for a month now with no > results. Grrrr -- can you suggest some other likely source besides Amazon > or Barnes & Noble, who have failed me in this Quest? Well, it's not out of print, to my knowledge. You should be able to get it by ordering it through your local bookstore, if you are located in the States. I still see it in the bookstores when I check local stores (maybe that's just Minneapolis). It's probably shelved in the "Fantasy" section. If you're in the states, there's a website which allows you to order it through your local independent bookstore, you might try that: http://www.booksense.com/ There's also Bookfinder, which advertises that they find new, used and out of print books: http://www.bookfinder.com/ If you're outside the states, I'm sorry, I don't know. I don't know which web sites ship outside the USA. Anyone? Good luck! I hope you can find it. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 10 02:47:09 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:47:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody References: <8rr489+nf64@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E2832D.95713E0B@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3088 stevekimmel at yahoo.com wrote: > Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student > even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy? The interesting thing here is that we judge a new character (faux Mad-Eye Moody) based on his interaction with a character we know well (Draco). And our attitude toward the character we know well influences the shaping of our opinion about the new character--this is an effective technique when an author wants to do some misdirection. Have character A warn our hero (and the reader) about character B--but the reader will disregard the information if they perceive character A as stupid or venal. Jane Austen was a master at this, and I know she's one of Rowling's primary literary influences. Peg From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Oct 10 03:06:10 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:06:10 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <39E231F5.DEA2E3EC@texas.net> Message-ID: <8ru132+teh0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3089 > I thought Avada Kedavra was intended to be interpreted as the un- garbled, original form of the standard "magic word" abracadabra. > --Amanda When I first heard it I thought abracadabra, too. But Rowling studied French, and probably built in a bilingual pun: Avada - sounds like "avoir," Fr. for "to have" Kedavra - sounds like cadaver (cadavre, Fr.), a dead body Thus Avada Kedavra sounds like "to have the dead body." -Jim Flanagan From lrcjestes at msn.com Tue Oct 10 02:50:38 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:50:38 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Emerald House Rising References: <39E2820C.12243926@ibm.net> Message-ID: <003b01c03264$e0095400$308fd6ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3090 > > Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > > > . What I'd also really enjoy is to read your book > > "Emerald House Rising" which I've had on order for a month now with no > > results. Grrrr -- can you suggest some other likely source besides Amazon > > or Barnes & Noble, who have failed me in this Quest? > > Well, it's not out of print, to my knowledge. You should be able to get it by > ordering it through your local bookstore, if you are located in the States. I > still see it in the bookstores when I check local stores (maybe that's just > Minneapolis). It's probably shelved in the "Fantasy" section. > > If you're in the states, there's a website which allows you to order it through > your local independent bookstore, you might try that: > > http://www.booksense.com/ > > There's also Bookfinder, which advertises that they find new, used and out of > print books: > > http://www.bookfinder.com/ > > If you're outside the states, I'm sorry, I don't know. I don't know which web > sites ship outside the USA. Anyone? > > Good luck! I hope you can find it. > > Peg I picked up a copy in a Barnes and Noble...or was it Borders...one of those big stores in Milwaulkee and I've seen it in a couple of stores around about Massachusetts...its out there... carole From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 10 03:21:33 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:21:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley References: <8rrl2e+51e0@eGroups.com> <39E23247.EEA88C61@texas.net> Message-ID: <39E28B3D.7C62E176@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3091 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > > > > I put Lockhart under Gluttony. He has a bottomless appetite for > > > adulation. > > > > Could be...but what about pride? > > He has no pride. He'd stoop to anything to feed his appetite for > attention. Pomposity and pridefulness are not the same thing. Good point, Amanda. In reading back my original messages, I saw that I initially put him under gluttony, but saw that it might be interpreted as lust, too, in the larger, overarching sense (a bottomless desire for adulation, rather than a bottomless appetite for adulation--see original posts to see the distinction). Frankly, a lot of these sins muddle together in character motivations; categorization is not clearcut. Peg From find_sam at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 03:23:58 2000 From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 03:23:58 -0000 Subject: Why magic works (was Re: A random question regarding owl post) In-Reply-To: <8rt33d+c43k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ru24e+68rl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3092 Steve wrote: > (Magic) works because it's INTENDED to work. This, I feel, is a very good point. Lately I've been thinking about Potions, and their origins. How did people discover that this much Boomslang and this many lacewings stewed for this long make Polyjuice Potions? The origins of potions seem to be impossible. My theory is that the potions don't work the way they do because of their ingredients. They work the way they do because, as Steve said, it's the way they're intended to work. If memory serves, this idea is addressed frequently in Terry Pratchett's Discworld canon (excellent series, give them a read if you haven't). TP's basic idea is that magic works in the way it does because people believe it will, and all the 'extras' - in the case of Polyjuice Potion, the boomslang and lacewings - are only there for effect. You could probably use mud and a few sticks, but if you believed it would work in the same manner as Polyjuice Potion, it probably would... I mean, it's MAGIC! It can do (nearly) anything! Anyway this has all gotten a little OT but I think that fact that magic works simply because it's intended to is a very interesting one. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 10 03:39:57 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:39:57 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Smart Ravenclaws References: <8rtste+5pu1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E28F8D.740C4886@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3093 Scott wrote: > This is sort of in response to an old post but bear with me- > > Some people had mentioned that all the Ravenclaws must be as smart, > if not smarter than Hermione. I don't however agree, and I interpret > Ravenclaws as being one of these things.... > > Ravenclaws are the people who put their "scholarly-ness" first. > Above say, friends or Quidditch. I don't really know if you'd say > that the books support this however. > > Far more likely, IMO, is that the Ravenclaws are those that think/ > make choices with their heads; opposed to Gryffindor who make > decision/choices with their hearts. Uh, oh. I see another thread starting. Anyone want to take a stab at guessing which Myers-Briggs types get put into each house? From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 03:57:33 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 22:57:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why magic works (was Re: A random question regarding owl post) References: <8ru24e+68rl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E293AD.B0BA6CF0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3094 Sam Brown wrote: > Anyway this has all gotten a little OT but I think that fact that > magic works simply because it's intended to is a very interesting > one. I don't think it's "simply." I think potions ingredients are very important, but the effect of will on the magic involved is strongly implied throughout. The Unforgivable Curses seem to vary in strength with the caster, as Moody says something of that nature. Anybody can mix up potions ingredients, but there must be some focusing of the will on the final outcome which affects it, or it would not be the art it clearly is. And the "wandless magics," the animagus spells and transformation, are clearly will-driven, but they are closely regulated, presumably because they are dangerous---more than just the will is involved. Bottom line--I think the will, or intent, of the caster of whatever spell (or mixer of whatever potion) is a vital ingredient, but the other ingredients are no less vital. --Amanda From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 10 04:16:54 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:16:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History References: <8roo7c+ublt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b301c03270$ed200b00$0ec44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3095 The personal computer > (imagined by anti-war activists), the internet, the web, have > made knowledge much more accessible. The anti-war activists may have imagined it, but who actually built it? "War is the father of all" wrote the old Greek Wizard Heraclitus. Did not the Internet make its first incarnation (just as Voldy first appeared as mere Tom Riddle) as Arpnet, a fully funded project of every liberals' Slytherin House, the Pentagon? At the risk of taxing my fellow subscribers' patience, I'm pasting here a brief Internet history Sterling: A Brief History of the Internet A Brief History of the Internet by Bruce Sterling From THE MAGAZINE OF FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION, February 1993. F&SF, Box 56, Cornwall CT 06753 $26/yr USA $31/yr other Some thirty years ago, the RAND Corporation, America's foremost Cold War think-tank, faced a strange strategic problem. How could the US authorities successfully communicate after a nuclear war? Postnuclear America would need a command-and-control network, linked from city to city, state to state, base to base. But no matter how thoroughly that network was armored or protected, its switches and wiring would always be vulnerable to the impact of atomic bombs. A nuclear attack would reduce any conceivable network to tatters. And how would the network itself be commanded and controlled? Any central authority, any network central citadel, would be an obvious and immediate target for an enemy missile. The center of the network would be the very first place to go. RAND mulled over this grim puzzle in deep military secrecy, and arrived at a daring solution. The RAND proposal (the brainchild of RAND staffer Paul Baran) was made public in 1964. In the first place, the network would *have no central authority.* Furthermore, it would be *designed from the beginning to operate while in tatters.* The principles were simple. The network itself would be assumed to be unreliable at all times. It would be designed from the get-go to transcend its own unreliability. All the nodes in the network would be equal in status to all other nodes, each node with its own authority to originate, pass, and receive messages. The messages themselves would be divided into packets, each packet separately addressed. Each packet would begin at some specified source node, and end at some other specified destination node. Each packet would wind its way through the network on an individual basis. The particular route that the packet took would be unimportant. Only final results would count. Basically, the packet would be tossed like a hot potato from node to node to node, more or less in the direction of its destination, until it ended up in the proper place. If big pieces of the network had been blown away, that simply wouldn't matter; the packets would still stay airborne, lateralled wildly across the field by whatever nodes happened to survive. This rather haphazard delivery system might be "inefficient" in the usual sense (especially compared to, say, the telephone system) -- but it would be extremely rugged. During the 60s, this intriguing concept of a decentralized, blastproof, packet-switching network was kicked around by RAND, MIT and UCLA. The National Physical Laboratory in Great Britain set up the first test network on these principles in 1968. Shortly afterward, the Pentagon's Advanced Research Projects Agency decided to fund a larger, more ambitious project in the USA. The nodes of the network were to be high-speed supercomputers (or what passed for supercomputers at the time). These were rare and valuable machines which were in real need of good solid networking, for the sake of national research-and-development projects. In fall 1969, the first such node was installed in UCLA. By December 1969, there were four nodes on the infant network, which was named ARPANET, after its Pentagon sponsor. The four computers could transfer data on dedicated high- speed transmission lines. They could even be programmed remotely from the other nodes. Thanks to ARPANET, scientists and researchers could share one another's computer facilities by long-distance. This was a very handy service, for computer-time was precious in the early '70s. In 1971 there were fifteen nodes in ARPANET; by 1972, thirty-seven nodes. And it was good. By the second year of operation, however, an odd fact became clear. ARPANET's users had warped the computer-sharing network into a dedicated, high-speed, federally subsidized electronic post- office. The main traffic on ARPANET was not long-distance computing. Instead, it was news and personal messages. Researchers were using ARPANET to collaborate on projects, to trade notes on work, and eventually, to downright gossip and schmooze. People had their own personal user accounts on the ARPANET computers, and their own personal addresses for electronic mail. Not only were they using ARPANET for person-to-person communication, but they were very enthusiastic about this particular service -- far more enthusiastic than they were about long-distance computation. It wasn't long before the invention of the mailing-list, an ARPANET broadcasting technique in which an identical message could be sent automatically to large numbers of network subscribers. Interestingly, one of the first really big mailing-lists was "SF- LOVERS," for science fiction fans. Discussing science fiction on the network was not work-related and was frowned upon by many ARPANET computer administrators, but this didn't stop it from happening. Throughout the '70s, ARPA's network grew. Its decentralized structure made expansion easy. Unlike standard corporate computer networks, the ARPA network could accommodate many different kinds of machine. As long as individual machines could speak the packet- switching lingua franca of the new, anarchic network, their brand-names, and their content, and even their ownership, were irrelevant. The ARPA's original standard for communication was known as NCP, "Network Control Protocol," but as time passed and the technique advanced, NCP was superceded by a higher- level, more sophisticated standard known as TCP/IP. TCP, or "Transmission Control Protocol," converts messages into streams of packets at the source, then reassembles them back into messages at the destination. IP, or "Internet Protocol," handles the addressing, seeing to it that packets are routed across multiple nodes and even across multiple networks with multiple standards -- not only ARPA's pioneering NCP standard, but others like Ethernet, FDDI, and X.25. As early as 1977, TCP/IP was being used by other networks to link to ARPANET. ARPANET itself remained fairly tightly controlled, at least until 1983, when its military segment broke off and became MILNET. But TCP/IP linked them all. And ARPANET itself, though it was growing, became a smaller and smaller neighborhood amid the vastly growing galaxy of other linked machines. As the '70s and '80s advanced, many very different social groups found themselves in possession of powerful computers. It was fairly easy to link these computers to the growing network-of- networks. As the use of TCP/IP became more common, entire other networks fell into the digital embrace of the Internet, and messily adhered. Since the software called TCP/IP was public-domain, and the basic technology was decentralized and rather anarchic by its very nature, it was difficult to stop people from barging in and linking up somewhere-or-other. In point of fact, nobody *wanted* to stop them from joining this branching complex of networks, which came to be known as the "Internet." Connecting to the Internet cost the taxpayer little or nothing, since each node was independent, and had to handle its own financing and its own technical requirements. The more, the merrier. Like the phone network, the computer network became steadily more valuable as it embraced larger and larger territories of people and resources. A fax machine is only valuable if *everybody else* has a fax machine. Until they do, a fax machine is just a curiosity. ARPANET, too, was a curiosity for a while. Then computer-networking became an utter necessity. In 1984 the National Science Foundation got into the act, through its Office of Advanced Scientific Computing. The new NSFNET set a blistering pace for technical advancement, linking newer, faster, shinier supercomputers, through thicker, faster links, upgraded and expanded, again and again, in 1986, 1988, 1990. And other government agencies leapt in: NASA, the National Institutes of Health, the Department of Energy, each of them maintaining a digital satrapy in the Internet confederation. The nodes in this growing network-of-networks were divvied up into basic varieties. Foreign computers, and a few American ones, chose to be denoted by their geographical locations. The others were grouped by the six basic Internet "domains": gov, mil, edu, com, org and net. (Graceless abbreviations such as this are a standard feature of the TCP/IP protocols.) Gov, Mil, and Edu denoted governmental, military and educational institutions, which were, of course, the pioneers, since ARPANET had begun as a high-tech research exercise in national security. Com, however, stood for "commercial" institutions, which were soon bursting into the network like rodeo bulls, surrounded by a dust-cloud of eager nonprofit "orgs." (The "net" computers served as gateways between networks.) ARPANET itself formally expired in 1989, a happy victim of its own overwhelming success. Its users scarcely noticed, for ARPANET's functions not only continued but steadily improved. The use of TCP/IP standards for computer networking is now global. In 1971, a mere twenty-one years ago, there were only four nodes in the ARPANET network. Today there are tens of thousands of nodes in the Internet, scattered over forty-two countries, with more coming on-line every day. Three million, possibly four million people use this gigantic mother-of-all-computer-networks. The Internet is especially popular among scientists, and is probably the most important scientific instrument of the late twentieth century. The powerful, sophisticated access that it provides to specialized data and personal communication has sped up the pace of scientific research enormously. The Internet's pace of growth in the early 1990s is spectacular, almost ferocious. It is spreading faster than cellular phones, faster than fax machines. Last year the Internet was growing at a rate of twenty percent a *month.* The number of "host" machines with direct connection to TCP/IP has been doubling every year since 1988. The Internet is moving out of its original base in military and research institutions, into elementary and high schools, as well as into public libraries and the commercial sector. Why do people want to be "on the Internet?" One of the main reasons is simple freedom. The Internet is a rare example of a true, modern, functional anarchy. There is no "Internet Inc." There are no official censors, no bosses, no board of directors, no stockholders. In principle, any node can speak as a peer to any other node, as long as it obeys the rules of the TCP/IP protocols, which are strictly technical, not social or political. (There has been some struggle over commercial use of the Internet, but that situation is changing as businesses supply their own links). The Internet is also a bargain. The Internet as a whole, unlike the phone system, doesn't charge for long-distance service. And unlike most commercial computer networks, it doesn't charge for access time, either. In fact the "Internet" itself, which doesn't even officially exist as an entity, never "charges" for anything. Each group of people accessing the Internet is responsible for their own machine and their own section of line. The Internet's "anarchy" may seem strange or even unnatural, but it makes a certain deep and basic sense. It's rather like the "anarchy" of the English language. Nobody rents English, and nobody owns English. As an English-speaking person, it's up to you to learn how to speak English properly and make whatever use you please of it (though the government provides certain subsidies to help you learn to read and write a bit). Otherwise, everybody just sort of pitches in, and somehow the thing evolves on its own, and somehow turns out workable. And interesting. Fascinating, even. Though a lot of people earn their living from using and exploiting and teaching English, "English" as an institution is public property, a public good. Much the same goes for the Internet. Would English be improved if the "The English Language, Inc." had a board of directors and a chief executive officer, or a President and a Congress? There'd probably be a lot fewer new words in English, and a lot fewer new ideas. People on the Internet feel much the same way about their own institution. It's an institution that resists institutionalization. The Internet belongs to everyone and no one. Still, its various interest groups all have a claim. Business people want the Internet put on a sounder financial footing. Government people want the Internet more fully regulated. Academics want it dedicated exclusively to scholarly research. Military people want it spy-proof and secure. And so on and so on. All these sources of conflict remain in a stumbling balance today, and the Internet, so far, remains in a thrivingly anarchical condition. Once upon a time, the NSFnet's high-speed, high-capacity lines were known as the "Internet Backbone," and their owners could rather lord it over the rest of the Internet; but today there are "backbones" in Canada, Japan, and Europe, and even privately owned commercial Internet backbones specially created for carrying business traffic. Today, even privately owned desktop computers can become Internet nodes. You can carry one under your arm. Soon, perhaps, on your wrist. But what does one *do* with the Internet? Four things, basically: mail, discussion groups, long-distance computing, and file transfers. Internet mail is "e-mail," electronic mail, faster by several orders of magnitude than the US Mail, which is scornfully known by Internet regulars as "snailmail." Internet mail is somewhat like fax. It's electronic text. But you don't have to pay for it (at least not directly), and it's global in scope. E-mail can also send software and certain forms of compressed digital imagery. New forms of mail are in the works. The discussion groups, or "newsgroups," are a world of their own. This world of news, debate and argument is generally known as "USENET. " USENET is, in point of fact, quite different from the Internet. USENET is rather like an enormous billowing crowd of gossipy, news-hungry people, wandering in and through the Internet on their way to various private backyard barbecues. USENET is not so much a physical network as a set of social conventions. In any case, at the moment there are some 2,500 separate newsgroups on USENET, and their discussions generate about 7 million words of typed commentary every single day. Naturally there is a vast amount of talk about computers on USENET, but the variety of subjects discussed is enormous, and it's growing larger all the time. USENET also distributes various free electronic journals and publications. Both netnews and e-mail are very widely available, even outside the high-speed core of the Internet itself. News and e-mail are easily available over common phone-lines, from Internet fringe- realms like BITnet, UUCP and Fidonet. The last two Internet services, long-distance computing and file transfer, require what is known as "direct Internet access" -- using TCP/IP. Long-distance computing was an original inspiration for ARPANET and is still a very useful service, at least for some. Programmers can maintain accounts on distant, powerful computers, run programs there or write their own. Scientists can make use of powerful supercomputers a continent away. Libraries offer their electronic card catalogs for free search. Enormous CD-ROM catalogs are increasingly available through this service. And there are fantastic amounts of free software available. File transfers allow Internet users to access remote machines and retrieve programs or text. Many Internet computers -- some two thousand of them, so far -- allow any person to access them anonymously, and to simply copy their public files, free of charge. This is no small deal, since entire books can be transferred through direct Internet access in a matter of minutes. Today, in 1992, there are over a million such public files available to anyone who asks for them (and many more millions of files are available to people with accounts). Internet file-transfers are becoming a new form of publishing, in which the reader simply electronically copies the work on demand, in any quantity he or she wants, for free. New Internet programs, such as "archie," "gopher," and "WAIS," have been developed to catalog and explore these enormous archives of material. The headless, anarchic, million-limbed Internet is spreading like bread-mold. Any computer of sufficient power is a potential spore for the Internet, and today such computers sell for less than $2,000 and are in the hands of people all over the world. ARPA's network, designed to assure control of a ravaged society after a nuclear holocaust, has been superceded by its mutant child the Internet, which is thoroughly out of control, and spreading exponentially through the post-Cold War electronic global village. The spread of the Internet in the 90s resembles the spread of personal computing in the 1970s, though it is even faster and perhaps more important. More important, perhaps, because it may give those personal computers a means of cheap, easy storage and access that is truly planetary in scale. The future of the Internet bids fair to be bigger and exponentially faster. Commercialization of the Internet is a very hot topic today, with every manner of wild new commercial information- service promised. The federal government, pleased with an unsought success, is also still very much in the act. NREN, the National Research and Education Network, was approved by the US Congress in fall 1991, as a five-year, $2 billion project to upgrade the Internet "backbone." NREN will be some fifty times faster than the fastest network available today, allowing the electronic transfer of the entire Encyclopedia Britannica in one hot second. Computer networks worldwide will feature 3-D animated graphics, radio and cellular phone-links to portable computers, as well as fax, voice, and high- definition television. A multimedia global circus! Or so it's hoped -- and planned. The real Internet of the future may bear very little resemblance to today's plans. Planning has never seemed to have much to do with the seething, fungal development of the Internet. After all, today's Internet bears little resemblance to those original grim plans for RAND's post- holocaust command grid. It's a fine and happy irony. How does one get access to the Internet? Well -- if you don't have a computer and a modem, get one. Your computer can act as a terminal, and you can use an ordinary telephone line to connect to an Internet-linked machine. These slower and simpler adjuncts to the Internet can provide you with the netnews discussion groups and your own e-mail address. These are services worth having -- though if you only have mail and news, you're not actually "on the Internet" proper. If you're on a campus, your university may have direct "dedicated access" to high-speed Internet TCP/IP lines. Apply for an Internet account on a dedicated campus machine, and you may be able to get those hot-dog long-distance computing and file-transfer functions. Some cities, such as Cleveland, supply "freenet" community access. Businesses increasingly have Internet access, and are willing to sell it to subscribers. The standard fee is about $40 a month -- about the same as TV cable service. As the Nineties proceed, finding a link to the Internet will become much cheaper and easier. Its ease of use will also improve, which is fine news, for the savage UNIX interface of TCP/IP leaves plenty of room for advancements in user-friendliness. Learning the Internet now, or at least learning about it, is wise. By the turn of the century, "network literacy," like "computer literacy" before it, will be forcing itself into the very texture of your life. From vderark at bccs.org Tue Oct 10 04:22:12 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:22:12 -0000 Subject: A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <39E22F12.CD4150C0@texas.net> Message-ID: <8ru5hk+ans2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3096 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > --Amanda, always flattered when people tell her *her* name fits And any good Star Trek fan knows that Amanda means "worthy of being loved." It was Spock's human mother's name. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From mfodouglas at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 04:23:55 2000 From: mfodouglas at hotmail.com (Olivia Douglas) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:23:55 -0000 Subject: Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody In-Reply-To: <39E2832D.95713E0B@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8ru5kr+n4qq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3097 The reason we accept Mad Eye Moody(who turns out not to be the real one) is because he appears to be the voice of reason when Draco and Snape are treating Harry with so much animosity. My first impressions of Moody were that he was similar to Professor Lupin in his fondness and willingness to help Harry and to see Draco and Snape for what they are. I don't believe that he was in any way cruel or violent towards Draco. He turned him into a ferret, and while injuring his overextended ego, in no way harmed him physically. Draco had done a despicable thing by attempting to harm Harry with magic while his back was turned. If what goes around, really comes around, Draco got what he fairly deserved. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > stevekimmel at y... wrote: > > > Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student > > even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy? > > The interesting thing here is that we judge a new character (faux Mad-Eye > Moody) based on his interaction with a character we know well (Draco). > And our attitude toward the character we know well influences the shaping > of our opinion about the new character--this is an effective technique > when an author wants to do some misdirection. Have character A warn our > hero (and the reader) about character B--but the reader will disregard > the information if they perceive character A as stupid or venal. > > Jane Austen was a master at this, and I know she's one of Rowling's > primary literary influences. > > Peg From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 05:34:14 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:34:14 -0500 Subject: A computer history....OT References: <8roo7c+ublt@eGroups.com> <00b301c03270$ed200b00$0ec44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <008d01c0327b$ba4abbc0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3098 WOW! Thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: Caius Marcius To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History The personal computer > (imagined by anti-war activists), the internet, the web, have > made knowledge much more accessible. The anti-war activists may have imagined it, but who actually built it? "War is the father of all" wrote the old Greek Wizard Heraclitus. Did not the Internet make its first incarnation (just as Voldy first appeared as mere Tom Riddle) as Arpnet, a fully funded project of every liberals' Slytherin House, the Pentagon? At the risk of taxing my fellow subscribers' patience, I'm pasting here a brief Internet history Sterling: A Brief History of the Internet A Brief History of the Internet by Bruce Sterling From THE MAGAZINE OF FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION, February 1993. F&SF, Box 56, Cornwall CT 06753 $26/yr USA $31/yr other Some thirty years ago, the RAND Corporation, America's foremost Cold War think-tank, faced a strange strategic problem. How could the US authorities successfully communicate after a nuclear war? Postnuclear America would need a command-and-control network, linked from city to city, state to state, base to base. But no matter how thoroughly that network was armored or protected, its switches and wiring would always be vulnerable to the impact of atomic bombs. A nuclear attack would reduce any conceivable network to tatters. And how would the network itself be commanded and controlled? Any central authority, any network central citadel, would be an obvious and immediate target for an enemy missile. The center of the network would be the very first place to go. RAND mulled over this grim puzzle in deep military secrecy, and arrived at a daring solution. The RAND proposal (the brainchild of RAND staffer Paul Baran) was made public in 1964. In the first place, the network would *have no central authority.* Furthermore, it would be *designed from the beginning to operate while in tatters.* The principles were simple. The network itself would be assumed to be unreliable at all times. It would be designed from the get-go to transcend its own unreliability. All the nodes in the network would be equal in status to all other nodes, each node with its own authority to originate, pass, and receive messages. The messages themselves would be divided into packets, each packet separately addressed. Each packet would begin at some specified source node, and end at some other specified destination node. Each packet would wind its way through the network on an individual basis. The particular route that the packet took would be unimportant. Only final results would count. Basically, the packet would be tossed like a hot potato from node to node to node, more or less in the direction of its destination, until it ended up in the proper place. If big pieces of the network had been blown away, that simply wouldn't matter; the packets would still stay airborne, lateralled wildly across the field by whatever nodes happened to survive. This rather haphazard delivery system might be "inefficient" in the usual sense (especially compared to, say, the telephone system) -- but it would be extremely rugged. During the 60s, this intriguing concept of a decentralized, blastproof, packet-switching network was kicked around by RAND, MIT and UCLA. The National Physical Laboratory in Great Britain set up the first test network on these principles in 1968. Shortly afterward, the Pentagon's Advanced Research Projects Agency decided to fund a larger, more ambitious project in the USA. The nodes of the network were to be high-speed supercomputers (or what passed for supercomputers at the time). These were rare and valuable machines which were in real need of good solid networking, for the sake of national research-and-development projects. In fall 1969, the first such node was installed in UCLA. By December 1969, there were four nodes on the infant network, which was named ARPANET, after its Pentagon sponsor. The four computers could transfer data on dedicated high- speed transmission lines. They could even be programmed remotely from the other nodes. Thanks to ARPANET, scientists and researchers could share one another's computer facilities by long-distance. This was a very handy service, for computer-time was precious in the early '70s. In 1971 there were fifteen nodes in ARPANET; by 1972, thirty-seven nodes. And it was good. By the second year of operation, however, an odd fact became clear. ARPANET's users had warped the computer-sharing network into a dedicated, high-speed, federally subsidized electronic post- office. The main traffic on ARPANET was not long-distance computing. Instead, it was news and personal messages. Researchers were using ARPANET to collaborate on projects, to trade notes on work, and eventually, to downright gossip and schmooze. People had their own personal user accounts on the ARPANET computers, and their own personal addresses for electronic mail. Not only were they using ARPANET for person-to-person communication, but they were very enthusiastic about this particular service -- far more enthusiastic than they were about long-distance computation. It wasn't long before the invention of the mailing-list, an ARPANET broadcasting technique in which an identical message could be sent automatically to large numbers of network subscribers. Interestingly, one of the first really big mailing-lists was "SF- LOVERS," for science fiction fans. Discussing science fiction on the network was not work-related and was frowned upon by many ARPANET computer administrators, but this didn't stop it from happening. Throughout the '70s, ARPA's network grew. Its decentralized structure made expansion easy. Unlike standard corporate computer networks, the ARPA network could accommodate many different kinds of machine. As long as individual machines could speak the packet- switching lingua franca of the new, anarchic network, their brand-names, and their content, and even their ownership, were irrelevant. The ARPA's original standard for communication was known as NCP, "Network Control Protocol," but as time passed and the technique advanced, NCP was superceded by a higher- level, more sophisticated standard known as TCP/IP. TCP, or "Transmission Control Protocol," converts messages into streams of packets at the source, then reassembles them back into messages at the destination. IP, or "Internet Protocol," handles the addressing, seeing to it that packets are routed across multiple nodes and even across multiple networks with multiple standards -- not only ARPA's pioneering NCP standard, but others like Ethernet, FDDI, and X.25. As early as 1977, TCP/IP was being used by other networks to link to ARPANET. ARPANET itself remained fairly tightly controlled, at least until 1983, when its military segment broke off and became MILNET. But TCP/IP linked them all. And ARPANET itself, though it was growing, became a smaller and smaller neighborhood amid the vastly growing galaxy of other linked machines. As the '70s and '80s advanced, many very different social groups found themselves in possession of powerful computers. It was fairly easy to link these computers to the growing network-of- networks. As the use of TCP/IP became more common, entire other networks fell into the digital embrace of the Internet, and messily adhered. Since the software called TCP/IP was public-domain, and the basic technology was decentralized and rather anarchic by its very nature, it was difficult to stop people from barging in and linking up somewhere-or-other. In point of fact, nobody *wanted* to stop them from joining this branching complex of networks, which came to be known as the "Internet." Connecting to the Internet cost the taxpayer little or nothing, since each node was independent, and had to handle its own financing and its own technical requirements. The more, the merrier. Like the phone network, the computer network became steadily more valuable as it embraced larger and larger territories of people and resources. A fax machine is only valuable if *everybody else* has a fax machine. Until they do, a fax machine is just a curiosity. ARPANET, too, was a curiosity for a while. Then computer-networking became an utter necessity. In 1984 the National Science Foundation got into the act, through its Office of Advanced Scientific Computing. The new NSFNET set a blistering pace for technical advancement, linking newer, faster, shinier supercomputers, through thicker, faster links, upgraded and expanded, again and again, in 1986, 1988, 1990. And other government agencies leapt in: NASA, the National Institutes of Health, the Department of Energy, each of them maintaining a digital satrapy in the Internet confederation. The nodes in this growing network-of-networks were divvied up into basic varieties. Foreign computers, and a few American ones, chose to be denoted by their geographical locations. The others were grouped by the six basic Internet "domains": gov, mil, edu, com, org and net. (Graceless abbreviations such as this are a standard feature of the TCP/IP protocols.) Gov, Mil, and Edu denoted governmental, military and educational institutions, which were, of course, the pioneers, since ARPANET had begun as a high-tech research exercise in national security. Com, however, stood for "commercial" institutions, which were soon bursting into the network like rodeo bulls, surrounded by a dust-cloud of eager nonprofit "orgs." (The "net" computers served as gateways between networks.) ARPANET itself formally expired in 1989, a happy victim of its own overwhelming success. Its users scarcely noticed, for ARPANET's functions not only continued but steadily improved. The use of TCP/IP standards for computer networking is now global. In 1971, a mere twenty-one years ago, there were only four nodes in the ARPANET network. Today there are tens of thousands of nodes in the Internet, scattered over forty-two countries, with more coming on-line every day. Three million, possibly four million people use this gigantic mother-of-all-computer-networks. The Internet is especially popular among scientists, and is probably the most important scientific instrument of the late twentieth century. The powerful, sophisticated access that it provides to specialized data and personal communication has sped up the pace of scientific research enormously. The Internet's pace of growth in the early 1990s is spectacular, almost ferocious. It is spreading faster than cellular phones, faster than fax machines. Last year the Internet was growing at a rate of twenty percent a *month.* The number of "host" machines with direct connection to TCP/IP has been doubling every year since 1988. The Internet is moving out of its original base in military and research institutions, into elementary and high schools, as well as into public libraries and the commercial sector. Why do people want to be "on the Internet?" One of the main reasons is simple freedom. The Internet is a rare example of a true, modern, functional anarchy. There is no "Internet Inc." There are no official censors, no bosses, no board of directors, no stockholders. In principle, any node can speak as a peer to any other node, as long as it obeys the rules of the TCP/IP protocols, which are strictly technical, not social or political. (There has been some struggle over commercial use of the Internet, but that situation is changing as businesses supply their own links). The Internet is also a bargain. The Internet as a whole, unlike the phone system, doesn't charge for long-distance service. And unlike most commercial computer networks, it doesn't charge for access time, either. In fact the "Internet" itself, which doesn't even officially exist as an entity, never "charges" for anything. Each group of people accessing the Internet is responsible for their own machine and their own section of line. The Internet's "anarchy" may seem strange or even unnatural, but it makes a certain deep and basic sense. It's rather like the "anarchy" of the English language. Nobody rents English, and nobody owns English. As an English-speaking person, it's up to you to learn how to speak English properly and make whatever use you please of it (though the government provides certain subsidies to help you learn to read and write a bit). Otherwise, everybody just sort of pitches in, and somehow the thing evolves on its own, and somehow turns out workable. And interesting. Fascinating, even. Though a lot of people earn their living from using and exploiting and teaching English, "English" as an institution is public property, a public good. Much the same goes for the Internet. Would English be improved if the "The English Language, Inc." had a board of directors and a chief executive officer, or a President and a Congress? There'd probably be a lot fewer new words in English, and a lot fewer new ideas. People on the Internet feel much the same way about their own institution. It's an institution that resists institutionalization. The Internet belongs to everyone and no one. Still, its various interest groups all have a claim. Business people want the Internet put on a sounder financial footing. Government people want the Internet more fully regulated. Academics want it dedicated exclusively to scholarly research. Military people want it spy-proof and secure. And so on and so on. All these sources of conflict remain in a stumbling balance today, and the Internet, so far, remains in a thrivingly anarchical condition. Once upon a time, the NSFnet's high-speed, high-capacity lines were known as the "Internet Backbone," and their owners could rather lord it over the rest of the Internet; but today there are "backbones" in Canada, Japan, and Europe, and even privately owned commercial Internet backbones specially created for carrying business traffic. Today, even privately owned desktop computers can become Internet nodes. You can carry one under your arm. Soon, perhaps, on your wrist. But what does one *do* with the Internet? Four things, basically: mail, discussion groups, long-distance computing, and file transfers. Internet mail is "e-mail," electronic mail, faster by several orders of magnitude than the US Mail, which is scornfully known by Internet regulars as "snailmail." Internet mail is somewhat like fax. It's electronic text. But you don't have to pay for it (at least not directly), and it's global in scope. E-mail can also send software and certain forms of compressed digital imagery. New forms of mail are in the works. The discussion groups, or "newsgroups," are a world of their own. This world of news, debate and argument is generally known as "USENET. " USENET is, in point of fact, quite different from the Internet. USENET is rather like an enormous billowing crowd of gossipy, news-hungry people, wandering in and through the Internet on their way to various private backyard barbecues. USENET is not so much a physical network as a set of social conventions. In any case, at the moment there are some 2,500 separate newsgroups on USENET, and their discussions generate about 7 million words of typed commentary every single day. Naturally there is a vast amount of talk about computers on USENET, but the variety of subjects discussed is enormous, and it's growing larger all the time. USENET also distributes various free electronic journals and publications. Both netnews and e-mail are very widely available, even outside the high-speed core of the Internet itself. News and e-mail are easily available over common phone-lines, from Internet fringe- realms like BITnet, UUCP and Fidonet. The last two Internet services, long-distance computing and file transfer, require what is known as "direct Internet access" -- using TCP/IP. Long-distance computing was an original inspiration for ARPANET and is still a very useful service, at least for some. Programmers can maintain accounts on distant, powerful computers, run programs there or write their own. Scientists can make use of powerful supercomputers a continent away. Libraries offer their electronic card catalogs for free search. Enormous CD-ROM catalogs are increasingly available through this service. And there are fantastic amounts of free software available. File transfers allow Internet users to access remote machines and retrieve programs or text. Many Internet computers -- some two thousand of them, so far -- allow any person to access them anonymously, and to simply copy their public files, free of charge. This is no small deal, since entire books can be transferred through direct Internet access in a matter of minutes. Today, in 1992, there are over a million such public files available to anyone who asks for them (and many more millions of files are available to people with accounts). Internet file-transfers are becoming a new form of publishing, in which the reader simply electronically copies the work on demand, in any quantity he or she wants, for free. New Internet programs, such as "archie," "gopher," and "WAIS," have been developed to catalog and explore these enormous archives of material. The headless, anarchic, million-limbed Internet is spreading like bread-mold. Any computer of sufficient power is a potential spore for the Internet, and today such computers sell for less than $2,000 and are in the hands of people all over the world. ARPA's network, designed to assure control of a ravaged society after a nuclear holocaust, has been superceded by its mutant child the Internet, which is thoroughly out of control, and spreading exponentially through the post-Cold War electronic global village. The spread of the Internet in the 90s resembles the spread of personal computing in the 1970s, though it is even faster and perhaps more important. More important, perhaps, because it may give those personal computers a means of cheap, easy storage and access that is truly planetary in scale. The future of the Internet bids fair to be bigger and exponentially faster. Commercialization of the Internet is a very hot topic today, with every manner of wild new commercial information- service promised. The federal government, pleased with an unsought success, is also still very much in the act. NREN, the National Research and Education Network, was approved by the US Congress in fall 1991, as a five-year, $2 billion project to upgrade the Internet "backbone." NREN will be some fifty times faster than the fastest network available today, allowing the electronic transfer of the entire Encyclopedia Britannica in one hot second. Computer networks worldwide will feature 3-D animated graphics, radio and cellular phone-links to portable computers, as well as fax, voice, and high- definition television. A multimedia global circus! Or so it's hoped -- and planned. The real Internet of the future may bear very little resemblance to today's plans. Planning has never seemed to have much to do with the seething, fungal development of the Internet. After all, today's Internet bears little resemblance to those original grim plans for RAND's post- holocaust command grid. It's a fine and happy irony. How does one get access to the Internet? Well -- if you don't have a computer and a modem, get one. Your computer can act as a terminal, and you can use an ordinary telephone line to connect to an Internet-linked machine. These slower and simpler adjuncts to the Internet can provide you with the netnews discussion groups and your own e-mail address. These are services worth having -- though if you only have mail and news, you're not actually "on the Internet" proper. If you're on a campus, your university may have direct "dedicated access" to high-speed Internet TCP/IP lines. Apply for an Internet account on a dedicated campus machine, and you may be able to get those hot-dog long-distance computing and file-transfer functions. Some cities, such as Cleveland, supply "freenet" community access. Businesses increasingly have Internet access, and are willing to sell it to subscribers. The standard fee is about $40 a month -- about the same as TV cable service. As the Nineties proceed, finding a link to the Internet will become much cheaper and easier. Its ease of use will also improve, which is fine news, for the savage UNIX interface of TCP/IP leaves plenty of room for advancements in user-friendliness. Learning the Internet now, or at least learning about it, is wise. By the turn of the century, "network literacy," like "computer literacy" before it, will be forcing itself into the very texture of your life. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 10 04:36:39 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:36:39 -0000 Subject: Voldemort as History In-Reply-To: <00b301c03270$ed200b00$0ec44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8ru6cn+n2kg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3099 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > The personal computer > > (imagined by anti-war activists), the internet, the web, have > > made knowledge much more accessible. > > The anti-war activists may have imagined it, but who actually built it? > "War is the father of all" wrote the old Greek Wizard Heraclitus. Did not > the Internet make its first incarnation (just as Voldy first appeared as > mere Tom Riddle) as Arpnet, a fully funded project of every liberals' > Slytherin House, the Pentagon? > But I did NOT say the internet was imagined by anti-war activists, I said the personal COMPUTER was imagined and BUILT by members of the counter culture as a REACTION to the government monopoly on computers.... I won't insult anyone's knowledge by posting a history of the Mac computer here. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 10 04:48:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:48:44 -0000 Subject: hubris Message-ID: <8ru73c+6v8r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3100 Since we were talking about the 7 deadly sins as a framework for discussing HP, thought it would be interesting to discuss it in terms of Greek thoughts... Hubris or hybris -- the Greek idea that the tragic hero had a fatal flaw (oftentimes the same as his strength) that encompassed his doom..very common in Greek tragedy. Hubris was defined as an overweening pride... Not suggesting Harry as the tragic hero at all (perhaps Dumbledore?) but certainly Barty Crouch, Sr. has a lot of resemblance to Pentheus in the Bacchae. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 10 04:51:01 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:51:01 -0000 Subject: socks Message-ID: <8ru77l+8efe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3101 Assuming Dumbledore was telling the truth about seeing himself with socks in the Mirror of Erised, what could he have meant? Susan From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Oct 10 05:53:30 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:53:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Emerald House Rising Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3102 My store has both of Peg's books, Emerald House Rising in mass market paperback and Wild Swans in a lovely quality paperback. I narrowly escaped pulling the latter, though. Every month we get an RPL (recommended pull list) of books we're to pull off the shelves to thin out inventory or for poor sales. Now Peg's book was NOT on this list, but every so often we do "self-RPL" in which I go into my hardcover/QP section and pull anything that dates from before 2000 to make room for new things, except "deep stock" like Bradbury and Robert Jordan and Philip K. Dick that stay on there no matter what. I very nearly pulled Wild Swans, which had a date of 1999 on the back. I caught my error in time and put it back on the shelf. See, I am using my powers for good instead of evil. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "Animal Dreams" by Barbara Kingsolver *************************************************** From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Tue Oct 10 04:53:58 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:53:58 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long) Message-ID: <40.1de6cb0.2713fae6@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3103 Would it be possible for Peg to have a "Seven Deadly Sins" folder under files on the website? I believe I missed some of the earlier essays, and as I have enjoyed the ones I've read very much, I'd like to read them all. And I'd also like to vote *yes, please!* to your posting Seven Virtues essays as well, Peg. Your essays are well written and thought provoking and I appreciate your posting them! Thank you! Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From vderark at bccs.org Tue Oct 10 05:16:00 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 05:16:00 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <8ru77l+8efe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ru8mg+6i8g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3104 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Assuming Dumbledore was telling the truth about seeing himself > with socks in the Mirror of Erised, what could he have meant? > > Susan There is a small discussion of this on the Harry Potter Lexicon's Mysteries page. I think the socks just might represent Dumbledore's desire to set the house-elves free from their enslavement so they can use their formidible magical powers against Voldemort. But hey, maybe sometimes a sock is just a sock and an earmuff is just an earmuff (remember him telling MacGonagall that Madam Pomfrey embarrassed him by complimenting his new earmuffs? Same sort of statement...) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From catlady at wicca.net Tue Oct 10 06:44:06 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 06:44:06 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <8ru8mg+6i8g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rudrm+gv0n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3105 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > There is a small discussion of [Dumbledore seeing socks in the > Mirror of Erised} on the Harry Potter Lexicon's > Mysteries page. I think the socks just might represent Dumbledore's > desire to set the house-elves free from their enslavement My friend Lee suggested that Dumbledore himself is a House Elf (that explains why he has such powerful magic) who was Transfigured into a human by his friend Nicolas Flamel, and the socks represent his own desire to be legitimately freed. I once made up a theory (that doesn't mean that I believe it myself) that Dumbledore's late mother (or his late wife!) used to knit him a new pair of socks as his present every Christmas. He was never all that thrilled with the socks themselves, but sees his current, elderly, self holding a NEW pair of those socks in the Mirror -- meaning that his wish is that his mother (or wife) was still alive, thus able to make NEW unpleasant socks. From catlady at wicca.net Tue Oct 10 06:59:18 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 06:59:18 -0000 Subject: Smart Ravenclaws In-Reply-To: <39E28F8D.740C4886@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8rueo6+6p0g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3106 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Uh, oh. I see another thread starting. Anyone want to take a stab > at guessing which Myers-Briggs types get put into each house? Matching the Jungian typology to the Houses was a Hot Topic back in Yahoo days. Three DIFFERENT systems were invented, and Melanie summarized all three of them in message #1435 on http://www.egroups.com/messages/HPforGrownups-Archives A little less than 15 years ago, I knew two people at work who were both ENFJ -- the description of ENFJ in the book I was reading them could have been created simply as a portrait of either of those people. The important part is that for that type of person, relating with human beings is as automatic and necessary as breathing air, so wherever they go, they make new friends, and they keep up with the old ones, too. Roz would have been a Gryffindor: she viewed all her innumerable friends as people whom she would protect. Terry would have been a Slytherin: he viewed all his innumerable friends as resources who might come in useful sometime. From catlady at wicca.net Tue Oct 10 07:05:07 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:05:07 -0000 Subject: The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: In-Reply-To: <8rret3+e2v5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ruf33+30n5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3107 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Slitherin, Snape - allusions to "snake" or snake-like Blaise very wonderfully found out that 'snape' is an old dialect word for 'rebuke', which certainly fits him. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Oct 10 09:11:49 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:11:49 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <8ru77l+8efe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rumgl+jfor@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3108 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Assuming Dumbledore was telling the truth about seeing himself > with socks in the Mirror of Erised, what could he have meant? > > Susan Let me say: Wow! Steve and Rita, my thoughts about this were never that inventive. My idea was that, since Dumble had said that the happiest man in the world would see himself as he is, then if Dumble sees himself only with socks, he must be just about as happy as he can be. Simple pleasures--a nice, thick, warm pair of socks, etc. The Dumble as house-elf theory is very intriguing. And, since socks have such significance for Dobby, (plus they just seem to be mentioned a lot, don't they?) perhaps there is something more to it. I also really like the idea that Dumble was once happily married. It seems very fitting, like the Weasleys' happy marriage. Kelley From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 11:45:04 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend-Ings) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:45:04 -0000 Subject: Kid's reading, 7 deadly sins, and more Message-ID: <8ruvg0+aj21@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3109 Okay, I haven't been saying much lately, so I'll try to keep this short. Peg, please do continue with the 7 virtues. I very much enjoyed your series of essays on the 7 deadly sins and wish I were half as articulate. BTW, I just finished reading The Wild Swans last night and loved it. I have Emerald House Rising on order and expect to receive it sometime this week. Kid's reading My daughter (age 17)couldn't figure out what all the excitement was about HP, but finally decided to take a peek at PS - she's hooked. My nephew (age 10) isn't much for reading himself and prefers to be read to. However, once he realized that we were going to Toronto to hear JKR read from GoF, he's started reading at night on his own. He's still reading PoA and is fairly determined to be finished GoF by the time we reach Toronto. I suspect he's not going to make it, but it's wonderful seeing him try. Sister Mary Lunatic I dont' know if they ship to the US, but Chapters here in Canada ordered me a copy of Emerald House Rising - delivery time 1 week, cost $6.73. I pay no shipping charges, but suspect the exchange rate would cover that for you - let's face it, our Canadian dollar isn't worth much these days. If they don't ship to the US and you still can't find a copy, I could order one and send it to you. E-mail me if you're interested Books on tape Just curious to find out how much everyone can get them for. They're pretty pricey here. I looked last weekend and they want about $53.00 for CoS and $63.00 for GoF - definitely not in my budget. I haven't found them anywhere other than in bookstores, so there are no discounted prices anywhere that I know of. JKR in Toronto Wondering if anyone is close enough to be attending? My daughter, nephew and myself are making a little holiday of the trip. Taking the train down on Monday morning and coming home Tuesday, mid-afternoon. It'll be a great experience. My nephew has never been to Toronto, never ridden a train, a subway or a streetcar and Ottawa's the biggest place he's ever been. I'm thrilled to be able to see all this through his eyes. It's all very old hat to my daughter, who picks Toronto as the vacation place to be (mostly for the shopping and the theater - we may take in a play while we're there). Anyway, would love to hook with anyone who may be attending the reading, perhaps have lunch after. Enough, I hear small footsteps upstairs (I'm babysitting for my sister until she hires a new sitter - this getting up at 6 a.m. is killing me!) Sheryll From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 10 13:25:30 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:25:30 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <8rudrm+gv0n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rv5ca+htst@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3110 Or maybe it just was a gentle way of telling Harry that it was too personal a question Susan From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 13:37:55 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:37:55 -0000 Subject: hubris In-Reply-To: <8ru73c+6v8r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rv63j+v6d8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3111 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > Hubris or hybris -- the Greek idea that the tragic hero had a fatal > flaw (oftentimes the same as his strength) that encompassed his > doom..very common in Greek tragedy. Hubris was defined as an > overweening pride... > > Not suggesting Harry as the tragic hero at all (perhaps Dumbledore?) > but certainly Barty Crouch, Sr. has a lot of resemblance to Pentheus > in the Bacchae. > > Susan Yes, I can see your point about Bartemius Crouch Sr and Pentheus, defintely, and I've got a tendency to think in terms of Greek drama sometimes - I'm a classicist. The situation is very similar to tragedy in general, with its theme of family relationships and stubborn arrogant people. I would cast Snape as a tragic hero with a fatal flaw, myself. Hubris is definitely something he suffers from, and it seems to me that he's riding for a fall. Certainly if things had gone differently at the end of PoA he would have been in the typical position of a tragic hero, who has followed his rigid beliefs without paying attention to the warnings and who suffers as a result. I see him as very like Creon from the Antigone, not in terms of his situation but in terms of his character and how he deals with events. Other characters from tragedy ... you could say a similar thing for Sirius and Remus, again at the end of PoA when they wanted to kill Wormtail. At this point we don't know why they shouldn't have done so, and the parallels are not so apt perhaps, but there was the same idea of Sirius in particular being carried away by his own nature into doing things that would lead to dire consequences for himself and those he loves. In both of these instances, though, JKR shies away from the fall from grace that would crown a full tragic ending, and rather lets the day be saved by someone. Crouch Sr does suffer his full tragic ending though. Any other tragedies? Anyone still awake? ;-) -Blaise. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 13:59:10 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:59:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody References: <8ru5kr+n4qq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E320AD.EA61B8F0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3112 Olivia Douglas wrote: > The reason we accept Mad Eye Moody(who turns out not to be the real > one) is because he appears to be the voice of reason when Draco and > Snape are treating Harry with so much animosity. My first > impressions of Moody were that he was similar to Professor Lupin in > his fondness and willingness to help Harry and to see Draco and Snape > for what they are. However, I must admit to being a bit suspicious when we were told "It was the sort of thing Lupin would have done" in so many words, after Moody took Neville to his office, talked to him, and gave him a book. On the one hand, it was an indication of Harry's favorable response to Moody, but on the other, it sort of jumped out at me as "author wants this association drawn, wonder why?" Because JKR loves to let you assume and take for granted, before she makes all clear. Usually it's done a little less heavy-handedly. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:02:48 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:02:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History References: <8ru6cn+n2kg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E32188.5BE3BD0C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3113 Susan McGee wrote: > I won't insult anyone's knowledge by posting a history of the Mac > computer here. Actually, tying into another thread, this falls into the "history so recent that everyone is assumed to know it" category for me. I didn't start paying attention to personal computers until I could afford one (which wasn't that long ago...), and didn't opt for a Mac anyway. But they were started by Bill Gates in his garage, right? That's the pop icon, and that's about all I know. --Amanda, *not* a techhead From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:06:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:06:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] hubris References: <8ru73c+6v8r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E32261.E84A622D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3114 Susan McGee wrote: > Since we were talking about the 7 deadly sins as a framework for > discussing HP, thought it would be interesting to discuss it in terms > of Greek thoughts... Susan, I've been going mad trying to remember a term....the thing that Voldemort has done, thinking that taking Harry's blood to reanimate would make him invincible, when it will really be his downfall. Even if he knows there's a chance of it leading to his defeat, he's too sure of his own power to entertain the chance, and thus leads to his own downfall (or so I think will happen). I've been thinking of it as hubris, overweening pride, but I don't think it's the right term and I've forgotten all my Greek drama stuff. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:14:35 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:14:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] socks References: <8ru77l+8efe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E3244A.60C5128E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3115 Susan McGee wrote: > Assuming Dumbledore was telling the truth about seeing himself > with socks in the Mirror of Erised, what could he have meant? I'm not sure he *was* telling the entire truth, but here's my take. As a mom of very young ones, I can tell you Mom comes last. Mom gets nice stuff or even an hour away for a nice hot bath only after everything else is taken care of, and frequently there's just no time, and that's just the way it is. Being a mother is wonderful, but I will admit that sometimes it gets real old being the source of comfort, strength, hugs, and Kleenex when there's nobody doing it for you. Dumbledore is Mom writ large, in a sense. He's sort of the custodian of the good and fun against Voldemort, and he did the same in years past against Grindlewald (I have no idea if that's the right name), and he's probably kind of tired. I thought it was just a sort of yearning for a little less responsibility, a little more time to think about his own needs, and the ability to have such piffly concerns at the forefront, stated in a Dumbledore-ish way. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:17:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:17:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: References: <8ruf33+30n5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E324E9.5635B2A9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3116 Rita Winston wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > > > Slitherin, Snape - allusions to "snake" or snake-like > > Blaise very wonderfully found out that 'snape' is an old dialect word > for 'rebuke', which certainly fits him. It's also so reminiscent of 'snap,' an abrupt breaking, which fits with Severus, which sounds like 'sever' and 'severe.' Appropriate name all round. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:19:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:19:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Kid's reading, 7 deadly sins, and more References: <8ruvg0+aj21@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E32567.DCF69BF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3117 Sheryll Townsend-Ings wrote: > Enough, I hear small footsteps upstairs (I'm babysitting for my > sister until she hires a new sitter - this getting up at 6 a.m. is > killing me!) Oooh, poor *baby*! I get up at 5:15, and wake all three kids at 5:30. Ugh. --Amanda, perpetually sleepy From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:20:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:20:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks References: <8rv5ca+htst@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E325B4.E37209D7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3118 Susan McGee wrote: > Or maybe it just was a gentle way of telling Harry that > it was too personal a question Yeah, that was my main reaction. I'm sure that his answer did mean something, and I think it was along the lines of wanting a less complex life for once, but I don't think he really saw that in the mirror. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:46:05 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:46:05 -0500 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing Message-ID: <39E32BAD.D3D77103@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3119 Something's been bothering me. Is it quite clear that when Snape gets insulted by the Marauder's Map in book 3, that he knows who Padfoot, Moony, Wormtail, and Prongs were? On the one hand, if he did, he seems to have let the map incident go amazingly lightly, and to have taken a rather weak explanation from Lupin. The reason I ask: Snape was out cold during all the action in the Shrieking Shack when Peter Pettigrew was revealed. Up to the end of book 3, Snape honestly didn't know Peter Pettigrew was still alive, so while extreme, his actions toward Sirius were nonetheless appropriate given his character and the knowledge he possessed at the time. The excuse that he gives Fudge for the behavior of Harry, Hermione, and Ron I put down to an unusual generosity, stemming from his impending recognition, whether he believes it or not. But he doesn't know Pettigrew is alive or that Sirius' tale is true. I wonder if Dumbledore has clarified things for him off-camera, so to speak. Pettigrew is never called anything but Wormtail, and the first mention of Wormtail in front of Snape in book 4 is when Barty Jr. says his master showed up at his door in his servant Wormtail's arms. No mention is made of Snape's reaction to this, which makes me wonder. If Snape knows Wormtail is Pettigrew, this is the first we know that Snape must realize that Sirius was innocent and that he was in the wrong in the book 3 action. This explains to me why, when Sirius reveals himself at the end of book 4, Snape doesn't go running for the authorities or make any accusations. He hates the man, yes, and showe it, but he does *not* react like someone faced with an evil Voldemort supporter. However, if Snape has *not* connected Wormtail with Pettigrew, why would he agree to work with Sirius Black, who he must still believe was a traitorous supporter of Voldmort, responsible for many deaths? Any thoughts? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 14:48:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:48:19 -0500 Subject: Snape: Was fatal flaw References: <8rv63j+v6d8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E32C33.41F555FC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3120 Blaise wrote: > I would cast Snape as a tragic hero with a fatal flaw, myself. > Hubris is definitely something he suffers from, and it seems to me > that he's riding for a fall. Actually, in the tradition of epics, we have been dumped into this grand story in medias res, in the middle, and are learning about it through Harry's eyes as it goes on. I think Snape has already taken a fall--something besides basic personality made him the way he is. And I think probably he will again. > I see > him as very like Creon from the Antigone, not in terms of his > situation but in terms of his character and how he deals with > events. I think Snape is clearer-eyed that we are allowed to see. I see a bit of the attitude of Edmund from one of the Chronicles of Narnia books (Prince Caspian, I think; the second one). Where he's been woken by his sister Lucy and told something unbelievable and his reaction is stated along the lines of "while he fully intended to back Lucy up, he was annoyed at losing his night's sleep and intended to do everything as sulkily as possible." I think Snape has every intent of supporting the good, for whatever reason. But he does it in the snarliest manner possible, and carries way too much emotional baggage around. --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 16:43:55 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:43:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pondering a Snape thing References: <39E32BAD.D3D77103@texas.net> Message-ID: <002601c032d9$483e2c20$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3121 Because Dumbledore said so? If AD was such a great judge of character that he saw the good side of Snape, hence rescuing him from the authorities and others who were against him back in the Voldie-days and giving him a place to stay/teach, why would his view of Sirius be questioned by the same Snape--despite Snape's own personal views on it. In other words, if Dumbledore says that Sirius is a good guy, then he must be one, who am I to upset the boat especially with Voldie's ressurrection? However, if Snape has *not* connected Wormtail with Pettigrew, why would he agree to work with Sirius Black, who he must still believe was a traitorous supporter of Voldmort, responsible for many deaths? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 10 15:53:28 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:53:28 -0000 Subject: Snape: Was fatal flaw In-Reply-To: <39E32C33.41F555FC@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rve1o+k0dm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3122 > I think Snape is clearer-eyed that we are allowed to see. I see a bit of the > attitude of Edmund from one of the Chronicles of Narnia books (Prince > Caspian, I think; the second one). Where he's been woken by his sister Lucy > and told something unbelievable and his reaction is stated along the lines > of "while he fully intended to back Lucy up, he was annoyed at losing his > night's sleep and intended to do everything as sulkily as possible." I think > Snape has every intent of supporting the good, for whatever reason. But he > does it in the snarliest manner possible, and carries way too much emotional > baggage around. > > --Amanda Right on, Amanda. I think Snape's rage at the end of PoA over Sirius's escape is partly feigned. I think he is laying it on thick for Fudge's benefit, knowing it will get back to Malfoy, Sr. It has always struck me that Snape had the opportunity to turn Sirius over to the Dementors when he (Snape) recovered consciousness, but chose to bring him to the castle with Harry and the others. Also, it is clear to me that Snape guesses Harry is trapped in the step in GoF and makes a very theatrical show of trying to catch him while not actually doing so. Of course any one being a double agent would have to be a good actor, as Sirius points out. It is clear that Snape had his suspicions of Moody...do you suppose that Snape tried to warn Dumbledore that something was not right and got ignored, having cried, "Wolf" too often ? Pippin From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 10 16:06:29 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:06:29 -0000 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing In-Reply-To: <39E32BAD.D3D77103@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rveq5+pa6g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3123 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Something's been bothering me. Is it quite clear that when Snape gets > insulted by the Marauder's Map in book 3, that he knows who Padfoot, > Moony, Wormtail, and Prongs were? On the one hand, if he did, he seems > to have let the map incident go amazingly lightly, and to have taken a > rather weak explanation from Lupin. > > The reason I ask: > > Snape was out cold during all the action in the Shrieking Shack when > Peter Pettigrew was revealed. Up to the end of book 3, Snape honestly > didn't know Peter Pettigrew was still alive, so while extreme, his > actions toward Sirius were nonetheless appropriate given his character > and the knowledge he possessed at the time. The excuse that he gives > Fudge for the behavior of Harry, Hermione, and Ron I put down to an > unusual generosity, stemming from his impending recognition, whether he > believes it or not. But he doesn't know Pettigrew is alive or that > Sirius' tale is true. > I wonder if Dumbledore has clarified things for him off-camera, so to > speak. Pettigrew is never called anything but Wormtail, and the first > mention of Wormtail in front of Snape in book 4 is when Barty Jr. says > his master showed up at his door in his servant Wormtail's arms. No > mention is made of Snape's reaction to this, which makes me wonder. > > If Snape knows Wormtail is Pettigrew, this is the first we know that > Snape must realize that Sirius was innocent and that he was in the wrong > in the book 3 action. This explains to me why, when Sirius reveals > himself at the end of book 4, Snape doesn't go running for the > authorities or make any accusations. He hates the man, yes, and showe > it, but he does *not* react like someone faced with an evil Voldemort > supporter. > > However, if Snape has *not* connected Wormtail with Pettigrew, why would > he agree to work with Sirius Black, who he must still believe was a > traitorous supporter of Voldmort, responsible for many deaths? > > Any thoughts? > > --Amanda I think Snape was very much aware who Wormtail, Padfoot, Moony and Prongs are. Remember he told Lupin and Harry that he thought HArry got the map straight from the manufacturers. As for accepting Lupins weak explanation, Snape later admitted that he didn't trust Lupin and was maybe still gathering evidence against him. It seems like a pattern with Poor Snape, he waits too long to tell Dumbledore his suspicions. For example in SS/PS, Snape KNEW that Quirrell was cursing Harry's broom and even confronted him. Why didn't Snape go to Dumbledore with that information? But, by GoF Snape told Dumbledore about the Dark Mark becoming clearer (perhaps he learned his lesson by that time?) Yes, Snape's reaction was logical because he based it upon what his knowledge. However, his hatred for Lupin and Sirius sort of blinded him to reason. As Dumbledore told Fudge, Snape wasn't unstable: he was very disappointed. I think Snape has a need to prove to himself and to others that he is indeed a "good guy". Capturing Black would have proved to the entire wizarding world that Snape was a hero. I think Snape had connected that Wormtail= Pettigrew= Sirius innocent. Perhaps not at the moment Sirius tranfigured, but maybe later. Afterall, a lot happened that night and it would take a while to absorb all of it! I think he completely realized it by the Leaving Feast. Harry had a difficult time reading Snape's expression when their eyes briefly met. My guess is that Snape and Sirius have great trust in Dumbledore and that's the basis for working together. I still think they loathe each other, but they know of what Voldemort is capable and that outweighs their mutual dislike. :-)Milz From stevekimmel at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 17:24:42 2000 From: stevekimmel at yahoo.com (stevekimmel at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:24:42 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study Message-ID: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3124 Cornelius Fudge ? Minister of Magic When you react to a revelation about a character with disbelief the author has failed in characterization. The proper response should be, "Oh course. Why didn't I see it all along?" With Mad Eye Moody, Rowling succeeds in this characterization task. At the end of Goblet of Fire, I didn't believe the actions of Cornelius Fudge. They were too out of character for what we had seen before. For me, Rowling's characterization of Fudge was a dismal failure. Because of the subtlety of the approach, Cornelius Fudge's transformation from vaguely amusing bungler to, perhaps, a running dog lackey of Voldemort is less convincing than any of the others. Fudge's performance at the end of Goblet of Fire is so reminiscent of Peter Pettigrew's and so irrational than I have concluded that he is really a follower of Voldemort if not a full blown deatheater. Fudge is first mentioned in Philosopher's Stone although he does not actually put in an appearance until Chamber of Secrets. Hagrid mentions him while taking Harry shopping in Diagon Alley. They wanted Dumbledore to be Minister of Magic but he would never leave Hogwarts so Fudge got the job. Question 1: Who are they? Is this some variation on a Voldemort plot to move Dumbledore away from Hogwarts? Question 2: How does someone get to be the Minister of Magic? Apparently not because of your abilities. Hagrid describes Fudge as being a bungler who sends owls everyday asking Dumbledore for advice. Although Fudge is not explicitly identified as the sender, there is an owl sent from the Ministry of Magic calling Dumbledore away at the critical moment when Quirrell is going to make his attempt on the stone. Had Fudge been identified as the sender, then perhaps I would be more willing to accept Fudge's "flip" to Voldemort's side. Question 3: If it was Fudge who called Dumbledore away, how did he know Quirrell was going to make his attempt that night? Voldemort was so weak that it is doubtful he could have informed Fudge by magic. We actually meet Fudge for the first time in Chamber of Secrets. The chamber has been reopened and students are being paralyzed and Fudge comes to Hogwarts to send Hagrid off to Azkaban. At the time, we entertained the notion that Hagrid might actually be the cause of the problem. In retrospect, if Fudge was a follower of Voldemort's, he would probably have known that it wasn't Hagrid at all. Question 4: In retrospect, why did Fudge seek to send Hagrid away and the same time Voldemort's other follower, Lucious Malfoy, is trying to rid Hogwarts of Dumbledore? Is Hagrid more important than we have previously thought? Our most extensive contact with Fudge comes in Prisoner of Azkaban. It is Fudge who meets Harry when he steps off the knight bus and sets him up at the Inn. Presumably he knew the truth about Sirius Black and knew that Sirius was actually not a threat to Harry. Presumably his actions were consistent toward eliminating another foe of Voldemort's. Question 5: Go back and reread that section. If Fudge is really a follower of Voldemort and Black, were his responses to Harry appropriate? By the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, Fudge has grown from being a bungler to an officious twit. At the beginning of Goblet of Fire he is still the friendly, fatherly type toward Harry though prone to officious prissiness. At the end though, we see him defending everyone Harry mentions as a Deatheater, casting aspersions on Harry's reliability and refusing to go along with Dumbledore's plans to thwart Voldemort. Question 6: Is there an explanation of Fudge's actions other than his being a follower of Voldemort? Do you believe his actions? I don't. From monika at darwin.inka.de Tue Oct 10 17:25:57 2000 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:25:57 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Literal interpretations? In-Reply-To: <8rts35+ber4@eGroups.com> References: <002401c031d9$172f1640$759c0b3f@donnadozier> <8rts35+ber4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <43d6us4drfup04q6joauqv80hmppbploou@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3125 On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:40:53 -0000, "Kelley " wrote: >Of course, as others have pointed out, Hagrid may >be prone to a little exaggeration. He may not be the most reliable >source; having said that, ~I~ believe him. ;o] Can anyone think of >an instance when he's been incorrect, or even off a bit on his >facts? If you thought that Hagrid was correct about the fact that there wasn't a Dark Wizard that had not been in Slytherin, this would make Sirius Black a Slytherin. Hagrid still thinks by the end of GoF that Sirius is a Dark Wizard, because he does not know the truth about him. I think this has been discussed before, and I maintain that I cannot see Sirius in any other house than Gryffindor. Greetings Monika -- Books and Movies http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 10 17:39:04 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:39:04 -0000 Subject: Hinkypunks was A varied post on Latin In-Reply-To: <8rreai+j1fl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rvk7o+62ml@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3126 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > For all that, there are a few that have me stumped. For example, I > know that a hinkeypunk shows up in the Dungeons and Dragons Monster > Manual, so JKR didn't invent it. But did she find it somewhere else? An Enclycopedia of Fairies by Katherine Briggs has this entry: Hinky-Punk. One of the many names for WILL O' THE WISP. It occurs on the Somerset-Devon borders. In appearance it seems to be something like the Highland DIREACH, for it was described to Ruth Tongue by members of the Dulverton Women's Institute as having 'one leg and a light, and led you into bogs'. (the caps indicate cross-references) Sorry it took so long to respond to this post, I had to take a day off from the list. (If Snape is indeed Jewish as some critics think, I am sure his Kol Nidre prayers were particularly fervent) Pippin From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 10 17:52:42 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:52:42 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <8ru8mg+6i8g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rvl1a+nnvn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3127 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > Assuming Dumbledore was telling the truth about seeing himself > > with socks in the Mirror of Erised, what could he have meant? > > > > Susan > > There is a small discussion of this on the Harry Potter Lexicon's > Mysteries page. I think the socks just might represent Dumbledore's > desire to set the house-elves free from their enslavement so they can > use their formidible magical powers against Voldemort. But hey, maybe > sometimes a sock is just a sock and an earmuff is just an earmuff > (remember him telling MacGonagall that Madam Pomfrey embarrassed him > by complimenting his new earmuffs? Same sort of statement...) > > Steve Vander Ark Although the point Steve makes in the Lexicon that there seems to be an awful lot of socks in the HP books really struck me. Not only Dobbys fascination with socks and the Dumbledore/Erised sock remark, but also Uncle Vernon gives Harry an old pair of his socks for one birthday; the pocket sneakoscope gets wrapped in socks. Doesnt Harry buy socks in Hogsmeade for Dobby? (or did I make that up?) What is it with the socks? -- Joywitch From eliasberg at ioc.net Tue Oct 10 17:57:23 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:57:23 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <39E325B4.E37209D7@texas.net> Message-ID: <8rvla3+lei0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3128 Well, there is another pair of socks that keep coming back to haunt us the pair of Uncle Vernons socks that are used to quite the Sneakoscope, maybe Harry could give Dumbledore these and both would be happy. Perhaps, and this is a stretch theory... JKR has a foot fetish and loves socks...I mean Amalda Marcos loved shoes, and this would explain the constant thread of socks (no pun intended). If I had to pick a theory though I would say that Dumbldore wants nothing more then a quite life and simple pleasures, and a warm pair of socks is that life. Remember also that when you are marked in a certain way your friends will gift you that way, for example you are an audiophile then you get CDs as gifts, if you are a movie buff you get DVDs, well if you are the wisest wizard in the wizarding world you get books... and more books... and more books still, when all you really want is a thick pair of wool socks which can simply be enjoyed, as we see when he enjoys all the silly hats and things he gets from the crackers. Anyway just my 2 knuts Dave From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Tue Oct 10 18:06:05 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:06:05 -0000 Subject: Happy New Year was Re: Hinkypunks In-Reply-To: <8rvk7o+62ml@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rvlqd+tmn4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3129 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" > wrote: > > Sorry it took so long to respond to this post, I had to take a day off > from the list. (If Snape is indeed Jewish as some critics think, I am > sure his Kol Nidre prayers were particularly fervent) > Pippin Le Shanah Tovah, Pippin, and all the other "MOTs" on the list! ht From eliasberg at ioc.net Tue Oct 10 18:11:53 2000 From: eliasberg at ioc.net (eliasberg at ioc.net) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:11:53 -0000 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing In-Reply-To: <8rveq5+pa6g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rvm59+fb1j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3130 There is something bothering me.... Snape was a Death Eater he showed us at the end of GoF and we know when the dark mark burned on the arm we know they all congrigated around Voldie. So Snape knew Wormtail was the traitor not Sirius, he knows Sirius was an enemy of Voldies and next to die after the Potters (he says that in PoA that Voldie would come after him, but Snape would know because this would have been discussed in the inner cicle meetings to plan the killings). Snape knows who all the inner circle is and has all along, so the only reason to treat Sirius badly isn't because he is Voldies right hand man, just a boyhood grudge, just my opinion though I may be wrong. Dave From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 10 18:14:31 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:14:31 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rvma7+hruo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3131 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, stevekimmel at y... wrote: > Cornelius Fudge ? Minister of Magic > > When you react to a revelation about a character with disbelief the > author has failed in characterization. The proper response should be, > "Oh course. Why didn't I see it all along?" With Mad Eye Moody, > Rowling succeeds in this characterization task. > > At the end of Goblet of Fire, I didn't believe the actions of > Cornelius Fudge. They were too out of character for what we had seen > before. For me, Rowling's characterization of Fudge was a dismal > failure. Because of the subtlety of the approach, Cornelius Fudge's > transformation from vaguely amusing bungler to, perhaps, a running > dog lackey of Voldemort is less convincing than any of the others. > Fudge's performance at the end of Goblet of Fire is so reminiscent of > Peter Pettigrew's and so irrational than I have concluded that he is > really a follower of Voldemort if not a full blown deatheater. > > Fudge is first mentioned in Philosopher's Stone although he does not > actually put in an appearance until Chamber of Secrets. Hagrid > mentions him while taking Harry shopping in Diagon Alley. They wanted > Dumbledore to be Minister of Magic but he would never leave Hogwarts > so Fudge got the job. > > Question 1: Who are they? Is this some variation on a Voldemort plot > to move Dumbledore away from Hogwarts? > > Question 2: How does someone get to be the Minister of Magic? > Apparently not because of your abilities. > > Hagrid describes Fudge as being a bungler who sends owls everyday > asking Dumbledore for advice. Although Fudge is not explicitly > identified as the sender, there is an owl sent from the Ministry of > Magic calling Dumbledore away at the critical moment when Quirrell is > going to make his attempt on the stone. Had Fudge been identified as > the sender, then perhaps I would be more willing to accept Fudge's > "flip" to Voldemort's side. > > Question 3: If it was Fudge who called Dumbledore away, how did he > know Quirrell was going to make his attempt that night? Voldemort was > so weak that it is doubtful he could have informed Fudge by magic. > > We actually meet Fudge for the first time in Chamber of Secrets. The > chamber has been reopened and students are being paralyzed and Fudge > comes to Hogwarts to send Hagrid off to Azkaban. At the time, we > entertained the notion that Hagrid might actually be the cause of the > problem. In retrospect, if Fudge was a follower of Voldemort's, he > would probably have known that it wasn't Hagrid at all. > > Question 4: In retrospect, why did Fudge seek to send Hagrid away and > the same time Voldemort's other follower, Lucious Malfoy, is trying > to rid Hogwarts of Dumbledore? Is Hagrid more important than we have > previously thought? > > Our most extensive contact with Fudge comes in Prisoner of Azkaban. > It is Fudge who meets Harry when he steps off the knight bus and sets > him up at the Inn. Presumably he knew the truth about Sirius Black > and knew that Sirius was actually not a threat to Harry. Presumably > his actions were consistent toward eliminating another foe of > Voldemort's. > > Question 5: Go back and reread that section. If Fudge is really a > follower of Voldemort and Black, were his responses to Harry > appropriate? > > By the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, Fudge has grown from being a > bungler to an officious twit. > > At the beginning of Goblet of Fire he is still the friendly, fatherly > type toward Harry though prone to officious prissiness. At the end > though, we see him defending everyone Harry mentions as a Deatheater, > casting aspersions on Harry's reliability and refusing to go along > with Dumbledore's plans to thwart Voldemort. > > Question 6: Is there an explanation of Fudge's actions other than his > being a follower of Voldemort? > > Do you believe his actions? I don't. Another thing that has troubled me since reading GoF was Fudge's decision to summon a Dementor. It's not stated, but I would think when Snape went to get Fudge, Snape told him that Barty Jr. was in the castle. So immediately, Fudge summons a Dementor because he feared for his personal safety? Doesn't make sense. I don't think Fudge is a Death Eater per se, but I think he is trying to "keep clean" with both factions. If Voldemort gains power, Fudge can always point to the instances where he has show a vague loyality (from your list above). Even if Voldemort is defeated Fudge at this point can say he was loyal to the Dumbledore by excusing his behavior in GoF as being "cautious" and "moderate". I can see Fudge's statement to the Daily Prophet. "Harry had just experienced a very traumatic ordeal of facing Voldemort and witnessing a classmate die. Surely, I had to proceed with a caution. Dumbledore and his Staff were over-emotional. Someone had to be calm. Bad decisions are made when one does not carefully and calmly analyze the situation. The Dementor? Barty Crouch Jr. was sentenced to Azkaban for the horrible, horrible crime against the Longbottoms. He showed no remorse at his trial and falsely proclaimed his innocence. Harry has stated that You-Know-Who considered Crouch Jr. to be his most faithful servant. Crouch was cunning enough to fool Dumbledore for an entire school year and was powerful enough to alter the Triward's Cup and the Goblet of Fire. I couldn't risk Crouch Jr from escaping or hurting anymore students. The Dementor had to be summoned. Not only for my security, but for everyone at Hogwarts that night." IMO, Rowling will be revealing more and more of Fudge's character in the coming books. :-) Milz From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 18:34:11 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:34:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Literal interpretations? References: <8rqcps+p6ht@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003501c032e9$07e830c0$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3132 Different > nationalities have reputations for exaggeration: the Irish are widely > known for "blarney," but the Scots and Germans are considered more > strait-laced. Do the people from rural south-west England (presumably > where Hagrid is from) have a reputation for hyperbole? If so, then > we should not look only to Slitherin for potential Death Eaters. Actually, I think he's from Yorkshire, which is in Northern England. But that's not relevant. What is relevant is that it's likely he was exaggerating. 1) Hagrid's not the intellectual type, so is unlikely to have done the research required to authoritatively say things like that. 2) A Slytherin was responsible for getting him expelled for something he didn't do. He's unlikely to be that well disposed towards them. I'm pretty certain that not all dark witches/wizards are Slytherins. Dangerous to think otherwise, because you might just end up trusting someone who you shouldn't, because they're not a Slytherin and you thought they were "safe". CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!! :) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 18:36:35 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:36:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Moody thoughts References: <8rp66s+mg6v@eGroups.com> <39E0D4F4.A9622172@texas.net> Message-ID: <003601c032e9$09597400$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3133 > Oh, but I see such tragic possibilities, too....Snape's no longer in a > position, with the return of Voldemort, to be free to love anyone (by > which I mean to expose them to potential danger by acknowledging a > relationship or even feelings). In my opinion, Snape clearly has some > less-than-safe role to play with the Death Eaters. What a lousy time to > find the love of your life. So while Snape may be launched into a > redemptive pattern (great term), I don't think he'll find fulfillment > this time either (I am of the loved-Lily school). At least, if he denies > love himself this time, instead of being dumped, it's a bit more noble. > And where did you get hold of the rumor that he falls in love, again? Tragic possibilities, eh? All the more reason to do it! Think of all the plot mileage! A fanfic just waiting to happen... Jinx From ben.leigh at cwcom.net Tue Oct 10 18:25:06 2000 From: ben.leigh at cwcom.net (Ben Leigh) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:25:06 +0100 Subject: Dementors Message-ID: <002001c032e7$6b251380$0200a8c0@jonnyold> No: HPFGUIDX 3134 Amanda wrote Does anyone besides me think the demeanors might have "gone easier" > on Voldemort's supporters? (snip) > Dumbledore's more than hinted that the basic nature of the > dementors leans more toward Voldemort than Our Side, anyway. Dumbledore said in Parting of the ways to release the dementors to stop voldermort attempting to take over the dementors and breaking open Askaban. I think I need to re-read the book as well of the chapters I've not got a clue what i'm talking about!!! Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 10 18:52:45 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:52:45 -0000 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing In-Reply-To: <8rvm59+fb1j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8rvoht+pioi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3135 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eliasberg at i... wrote: > There is something bothering me.... Snape was a Death Eater > he showed us at the end of GoF and we know when the dark > mark burned on the arm we know they all congrigated around > Voldie. So Snape knew Wormtail was the traitor not Sirius, he > knows Sirius was an enemy of Voldies and next to die after the > Potters (he says that in PoA that Voldie would come after him, > but Snape would know because this would have been > discussed in the inner cicle meetings to plan the killings). > Snape knows who all the inner circle is and has all along, so the > only reason to treat Sirius badly isn't because he is Voldies right > hand man, just a boyhood grudge, just my opinion though I may > be wrong. Dave Karkaroff testifies in the Pensieve that the Death Eaters identities were kept secret from one another. So likely Snape only knew the names of those in his particular cell. Sirius tells us that a bunch of Snapes classmates were caught...3 guesses who turned them in! So,IMO, Snape only knew that someone close to the Potters was a traitor and thought, along with everyone else, that it was Black. In addition, even if he also knew Wormtail was a traitor, he wouldn't necessarily know that he was the actual secret keeper, in which case, Black, as the supposed secret keeper, would have to have been a traitor also. In POA Snape sounds like he tried to warn James. He says, speaking to Harry, "You'd have died like your father, too arrogant to believe he might be mistaken in Black" From ben.leigh at cwcom.net Tue Oct 10 18:45:18 2000 From: ben.leigh at cwcom.net (Ben Leigh) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:45:18 +0100 Subject: Chapter 13 Mad eye moody Message-ID: <002901c032ea$3d414e40$0200a8c0@jonnyold> No: HPFGUIDX 3136 17 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 00:41:45 -0000 From: stevekimmel at yahoo.com Subject: Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody Sorry guys. I thought this was due this week. Question 1. Why is Harry taking the same courses year after year when clearly other students at the same level are taking different courses? (Lack of imagination on the part of Miss Rowling?) HI Steve, I think you may have missed something. If you refer to Chamber of secrets J.K Rowling mentions that the 2nd years were giving lists with new subjects to choose to study as part of their 3rd year Coursework. This may very well explain why other students at the same level are taking different subjects. First class is Herbology with Professor Sprout where we find our intrepid band collecting pus from Bubotubers. The pus is extremely valuable in part at least because it makes an excellent remedy for Acne. Presumably there are no effective cures for Acne in the Muggle world and given a school full of teenagers a good cure for Acne might be highly valuable. Good point after all magic is magic! The second class is Care of Magical Creatures with Hagrid. This year's magical creature of note are the Blast-Ended Skrewts. Blast- Ended Skrewts are not good for much of anything and as Malfoy puts it, "Who wouldn't want pets that can burn, sting and bit all at once?" We all know malfoy he loves criticising! . Finally we get to the real point of the chapter and meet the chapter's title character: Mad-Eye Moody, the new Defense Against the Dark Arts professor. Moody transforms Draco into a white ferret. After inquiring into whether Harry is all right, Moody decides that Draco has not been sufficiently punished. Accordingly, he decides to see how high a ferret will bounce which turns out to be nearly to the ceiling. We also learn that his rolling eye is magical and allows him to see out the back of his head. I loved this part of the book! It was so hilarious! I cried with mirth and still do! Mad eye obviously knew something about Malfoy's intense dislike for Harry or was it because he simply tried to attack harry when he had his back turned? Question 2 : Why did we believe Moody is Harry's friend and benefactor? One of J.K Rowlings clever twists in the plot I guess! Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy? cause he is a slimeball! also malfoy broke one of the most important rules in DADA (Defense against the dark arts) Question 4: What do we think will happen between Moody and Snape and between Moody and Malay? Moody really hates Malay, Snap and Moody have a run in the egg and the eye chapter another one of my Ave chapters apart from the First Task. Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ben.leigh at cwcom.net Tue Oct 10 18:45:18 2000 From: ben.leigh at cwcom.net (Ben Leigh) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:45:18 +0100 Subject: Chapter 13 Mad eye moody Message-ID: <000001c032ef$82e9b220$0200a8c0@jonnyold> No: HPFGUIDX 3137 17 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 00:41:45 -0000 From: stevekimmel at yahoo.com Subject: Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody Sorry guys. I thought this was due this week. Question 1. Why is Harry taking the same courses year after year when clearly other students at the same level are taking different courses? (Lack of imagination on the part of Miss Rowling?) HI Steve, I think you may have missed something. If you refer to Chamber of secrets J.K Rowling mentions that the 2nd years were giving lists with new subjects to choose to study as part of their 3rd year Coursework. This may very well explain why other students at the same level are taking different subjects. First class is Herbology with Professor Sprout where we find our intrepid band collecting pus from Bubotubers. The pus is extremely valuable in part at least because it makes an excellent remedy for Acne. Presumably there are no effective cures for Acne in the Muggle world and given a school full of teenagers a good cure for Acne might be highly valuable. Good point after all magic is magic! The second class is Care of Magical Creatures with Hagrid. This year's magical creature of note are the Blast-Ended Skrewts. Blast- Ended Skrewts are not good for much of anything and as Malfoy puts it, "Who wouldn't want pets that can burn, sting and bit all at once?" We all know malfoy he loves criticising! . Finally we get to the real point of the chapter and meet the chapter's title character: Mad-Eye Moody, the new Defense Against the Dark Arts professor. Moody transforms Draco into a white ferret. After inquiring into whether Harry is all right, Moody decides that Draco has not been sufficiently punished. Accordingly, he decides to see how high a ferret will bounce which turns out to be nearly to the ceiling. We also learn that his rolling eye is magical and allows him to see out the back of his head. I loved this part of the book! It was so hilarious! I cried with mirth and still do! Mad eye obviously knew something about Malfoy's intense dislike for Harry or was it because he simply tried to attack harry when he had his back turned? Question 2 : Why did we believe Moody is Harry's friend and benefactor? One of J.K Rowlings clever twists in the plot I guess! Question 3: Why do we accept Moody's casual cruelty toward a student even if it's a slimeball like Malfoy? cause he is a slimeball! also malfoy broke one of the most important rules in DADA (Defense against the dark arts) Question 4: What do we think will happen between Moody and Snape and between Moody and Malay? Moody really hates Malay, Snap and Moody have a run in the egg and the eye chapter another one of my Ave chapters apart from the First Task. Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 10 19:36:53 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:36:53 -0000 Subject: Dementors In-Reply-To: <002001c032e7$6b251380$0200a8c0@jonnyold> Message-ID: <8rvr4l+1ho7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3138 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ben Leigh" wrote: > Amanda wrote > > Does anyone besides me think the demeanors might have "gone easier" > > on Voldemort's supporters? (snip) > > Dumbledore's more than hinted that the basic nature of the > > dementors leans more toward Voldemort than Our Side, anyway. > > Dumbledore said in Parting of the ways to release the dementors to stop voldermort attempting to take over the dementors and breaking open Askaban. I think I need to re-read the book as well of the chapters I've not got a clue what i'm talking about!!! > > Ben > V. told the Death Eaters that the Dementors were their "natural allies" as were the Giants. Ben is correct that Dumbledore voiced his concern about the Dementor's guarding Azkaban after V. had returned. My impression of the Dementors is that they really don't care who is who as long as they can feed off that person's joy and happiness. In PoA, they were under strict orders not to enter the school grounds, but they couldn't resist the good vibes coming from the Quidditch crowd. :-) Milz From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Oct 10 19:54:20 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:54:20 -0000 Subject: Literal interpretations? In-Reply-To: <43d6us4drfup04q6joauqv80hmppbploou@4ax.com> Message-ID: <8rvs5c+33ed@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3139 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Monika Huebner wrote: > If you thought that Hagrid was correct about the fact that there > wasn't a Dark Wizard that had not been in Slytherin, this would make > Sirius Black a Slytherin. Hagrid still thinks by the end of GoF that > Sirius is a Dark Wizard, because he does not know the truth about him. > > I think this has been discussed before, and I maintain that I cannot > see Sirius in any other house than Gryffindor. > > Greetings > Monika Indeed, you are right, Monika. Perhaps the reason we haven't learned the house the Marauders were in, is because JKR is going to surprise us. My feeling is that, if we learn they were in Gryff., what's the reason we haven't been told this yet? It seems that JKR wouldn't hold back this info if it wasn't going to be some big revelation. Someone else has pointed out that Sirius comments about Snape as "that slimy Slytherin" or something to that effect, and this points to Sirius ~not~ being in Slyth, so maybe he wasn't. I would put the marauders in Gryff, too, but this seems to be falling right into JKR's trap. She leads us one way, then hits us with the curve ball. It's happened in every book so far, she won't stop now. Guess we'll see... Kelley From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 20:07:40 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry as Pop Icon Message-ID: <20001010200740.19678.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3140 --- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >I can imagine a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. > >"What better way to cook your roasts than with a Hogwarts Crock-Pot. You can > >guarentee your little wizards and witches will want to eat their dinners now! > Don't > >be a Muggle; buy your Hogwarts Crock-Pot today! Available at your nearest > retail > >store!" > > > >From, > > > >Anake > > > > > LOL! I can just see it: "Don't work the day away like a house-elf...let the > Hogwarts Crock Pot whip up a magical feast!" > > kathy > > But, oh, we would NEED it, wouldn't we? How the nice decor of the Crock Pot would match our curtains! The little wizards and witches flying on their broomsticks on a starry bluish/black background and a full yellow moon. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 20:13:10 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:13:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Moody's treatment of Malfoy/Harry's mistrust of adults/Harry's consideration Message-ID: <20001010201310.26082.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3141 --- Susan McGee wrote: > > Reading. > Did kids really read more when we were growing up? (I may do a couple > of polls). I remember being fairly rare in my obsession with books > and reading, most of my peers did not read. It was great fun finally > finding other people who did in high school and college. Still, many > people I know don't read regularly. I was born in 1982 and am part of the class of 2001, and I think kids read more than today. I may be wrong, though. I mean, I too am always excited to find people in my school who read and I try to talk to them about literature but usually they're not that obsessed . Sometimes I think it's just how you grew up. My dad read me the Wall Street Journal when I was a baby, and I started reading at age 4 (this little book called "Martha's House" that I loved; no, it wasn't Martha Stewart) and I got into Beverly Cleary in second grade. Then I read "Cujo" by Stephen King at age 9. It all depends, I think. But I am so glad there is Harry Potter because now kids LIKE to read and you can find some kids dumping their GameBoys or turning off the giant glowing One-Eyed God in the corner of the room to read Harry's next adventure. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 20:20:41 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Smart Ravenclaws Message-ID: <20001010202041.21636.qmail@web1006.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3142 --- Rita Winston wrote: > > Matching the Jungian typology to the Houses was a Hot Topic back in > Yahoo days. Three DIFFERENT systems were invented, and Melanie > summarized all three of them in message #1435 on > http://www.egroups.com/messages/HPforGrownups-Archives I knew that I would be perfect for Ravenclaw. INTJ here. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 10 20:46:04 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:46:04 -0000 Subject: commercialization of HP Message-ID: <8rvv6c+49ga@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3143 I just got the latest Warner Brothers catalog in the mail today; and there is a whole @#$#)%load of Harry Potter crap. Mostly the same stuff as has been on their website - tons of t-shirts, baseball caps, ornaments, frames, bookends, backpack (although the Quidditch sports bag, t-shirts and hats are not in the catalog), 5 different watches, etc. There is also a trivia boardgame, another boardgame and a pack of UNO cards. Like many, if not most people in this group, I have mixed feelings about this stuff. Part of me is really disgusted by the commercialization of the HP books, but part of me is reaching for my checkbook - after all, I do need a new watch.... -- Joywitch From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 18:48:46 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:48:46 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon References: <20001008223403.20412.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01b001c032fd$8b783700$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3144 I guess it feels kind of like blasphemy. Harry Potter is like your own private fantasy world, and then the big bad capitalist machine starts taking it over, and it's not yours anymore. Having said that, I don't think it'll destroy Harry Potter, because who in their right mind is going to stop buying and reading the books, the way GoF ended? Not me. HP will survive precisely because it started with books, not on TV, and because it started small scale, a word of mouth kind of thing. None of us really had to be pressured by ad men into buying the books, did we? Possibly by our children and loved ones, but that's not the same, is it? I personally wouldn't say no to a Golden Snitch keyring and a Slytherin badge though... Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Anake To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Harry as Pop Icon > Am I the only one (well, besides one of the guys interviewed in the article) that > also thinks that having tons of Harry merchandise will be sort of annoying? I > dislike fads that have to do with a ton of merchandise, although I shouldn't really > say that. I love The Simpsons, and The Simpsons had a merchandise BONANZA during > the 1990-1991 season, and yet that show is still going strong. > > What does everyone else think? > > Virtually, > > Anake N. > > ===== > ========== > Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) > ==== > YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 > ICQ: 37150285 > ==== > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! > http://photos.yahoo.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 19:09:56 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:09:56 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody References: <8rr489+nf64@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01b101c032fd$8cbec0c0$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3145 > Question 1. Why is Harry taking the same courses year after year when > clearly other students at the same level are taking different > courses? (Lack of imagination on the part of Miss Rowling?) Bear in mind it is just Hermione. And she hasn't changed courses, she dropped one. I think most students stick with their courses, but can change if they're really not making any headway in one. Anyway, did you not read CoS? They all got to pick the options they wanted in their third and fourth years then. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 19:20:05 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:20:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] reactions to Dementors References: <8rreot+ulc4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01b201c032fd$8de3b8c0$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3146 > I was listening to CS on tape tonight while I was folding clothes > (which has become almost a fun job with HP tapes to listen to!) and > something struck me again. I had noted this in my research onths ago > and I know it's starred in my notebook, but I'd forgotten. Did anyone > else notice how Ginny reacted to the Dementor on the train? She was > much more affected than anyone else except Harry. In fact, while > Harry was described as having a seizure, she is also described as > shaking all over. Harry is the focus and everyone looks at him, but I > wonder... Read CoS again. She's the only other one who's had traumas comparable to Harry, and had first hand contact with Voldemort. No doubt the Dementor brought back memories of Tom Riddle and that's why she was so affected. > Just so she doesn't turn out to be his sister, hidden away at birth > like her brother Luke to protect her from the evil Lord Vader. Oh, > sorry, wrong mythology... With that hair? Not likely. :) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 19:25:14 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:25:14 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: reactions to Dementors References: <8rrf3m+7os4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01b301c032fd$8f3b0b60$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3147 > Doesn't someone say that the reason that Harry responds so badly > to the Dementors is because he has some major trauma that they are > invoking? What trauma has Ginny experienced? (Is she the illegimate > child of Dumbledore by Molly? --- just a joke) Well, I think being possessed by Voldemort and being made to set a Basilisk loose on Hogwarts, before being dragged into the bowels of the castle and having the life sucked out of her by said Voldemort counts as a fairly major trauma... Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 19:52:52 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:52:52 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A random question regarding owl post References: <8rsv0l+4d7r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01b601c032fd$92ff6660$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3148 I think the owls automatically can find the addressee. I'm wondering how wizards/witches who want to write to Muggles cope. (I.e. Muggle-borns wanting to write home while at school.) Obviously the witch has no problem sending the letter using either an official or their own owl. But the reply? How do they reply to their offspring? They won't have a family owl, will they? They could use the owl that brought the original message, but how long is the owl expected to hang around waiting for? And how will they look after it? What if they want to initiate communication (e.g. there's a death in the family and they urgently need to contact their child)? How do they go about it, given that Muggle post won't get there, and they won't have an owl post office round the corner? Just a thought. Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Cassandra Claire To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 6:24 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A random question regarding owl post > Hmm. I was working on a fanfic story and a question occured to me > regarding owl post...in order to send a letter via owl, in the canon, > is it necessary to have some kind of address to send the owl to? I > know this may seem like a silly question, but IIRC, Harry just tells > Hedwig "take this letter to Sirius" or some such, and the owl flies > off and delivers it. Harry doesn't even know exactly where Sirius is. > I suppose the question is: if you don't know precisely where someone > is, can you still send them a letter via owl? > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 10 20:54:35 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:54:35 +0100 Subject: Reading Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3149 Susan asked: "Did kids really read more when we were growing up? (I may do a couple of polls). I remember being fairly rare in my obsession with books and reading, most of my peers did not read. It was great fun finally finding other people who did in high school and college. Still, many people I know don't read regularly." I read little while at school but now I am at university I always have a book on the go (and quite often more than one - not to mention fan fiction as well). I saw no reason to read anything while I was at school. Even to the point where I had not even read my set text for GCSE (exams at 16) English (Please note: This is not an advisable course of action - read the book it help, especially if the film does not match the book that closely). The only books I read from about the age of 14 up to 18 were the Discworld books by Terry Pratchett. Now I read often and very rarely watch television. I go for months with only watching a couple of big sporting matches on television (at least while I am at university - I go home and spend large portions of my time in front of the television). Simon From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 20:06:35 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:06:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's lack of consideration . . . References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001008222050.00a87a10@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <01b901c032fd$97cec8c0$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3150 One big point to consider. He's male. Since when have men ever admitted they're wrong? ;) He's also a teenager, and they're very self-centred anyway. Seriously, he needs character flaws. Where would the plot be with perfect characters? Jinx > As I feel like being controversial today . . . > > One of the problems I have with Harry's character is the lack of > consideration he gives to others, even those who are his friends. For > example, in GoF he has absolutely no idea why Ron is so upset with > him. Despite the fact that Ron has made it obvious how overshadowed he > feels by his brothers, Harry has no clue just how much it bothers > Ron. It's Hermione who has to explain Ron's feelings to Harry (and her > understanding it makes for a nice H/R arguement). And despite knowing why > it has upset Ron, he's refuses to understand, instead focusing on himself > and how *he's* the one insulted. And in the end it's *Ron* who is the one > to end the fight. Not Harry -- Ron. > > The other thing that bothers me is his thoughtlessness about Voldemort's > other victims. In SS/PS he says he's going to try and stop V because of > what Voldemort did to his parents. Harry already knows that a lot of > people died because of Voldemort but the only thing that matters to him is > his parents. Now, I'll give him a break in the first one because he was > just a kid, but in the later books he never seems to think about anyone > else either. (This has led to a line in a fic I'm working on where > Dumbledore says "You're not the only one who lost someone you loved to > Voldemort. Never forget that.") Harry does seem to forget that and I can > never quite forgive him for that. > > I still think Harry's a good kid. He's just a bit . . . selfish. He never > seems to consider anyone else's POV but his own. However, I will say that > GoF will probably mature him considerably. Cedric's death should help him > understand that he's not the only person hurt because of Voldemort's > actions. I still can't understand why he was so immature towards Ron > though. . . . I'm quite sure Ron would have ended the fight sooner had > Harry not been so immature about it (the whole throwing the pin at Ron and > saying 'You've always wanted a scar' bit). > > Anyway, I'd be interested in what other people think about this :) > > DrMM (testing out her new e-mail address -- wonder if the .sig works?) > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 10 20:57:28 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:57:28 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP References: <8rvv6c+49ga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E382B8.AF23BE03@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3151 And on the wbstore.com website, there are now holiday ornaments (they're Christmas ornaments, durnit - no other holiday *has* ornaments!), the snowglobes (but without Cassandra Claire's Magical Falling Snow) and a very cute Hedwig doll - although personally, I would rather a Pigwigeon (will that be in the merchandising for Book 3, when Pig appears, or book 4, when Pig is a real part of the action? And when can I buy a nice, big stuffed black doggie?) I really want that trivia game, and a set of uno cards - I want to play against my husband : ) has anyone seen them in stores yet? Joywitch wrote: > I just got the latest Warner Brothers catalog in the mail today; and > there is a whole @#$#)%load of Harry Potter crap. Mostly the same > stuff as has been on their website - tons of t-shirts, baseball caps, > ornaments, frames, bookends, backpack (although the Quidditch sports > bag, t-shirts and hats are not in the catalog), 5 different watches, > etc. There is also a trivia boardgame, another boardgame and a pack > of UNO cards. > > Like many, if not most people in this group, I have mixed feelings > about this stuff. Part of me is really disgusted by the > commercialization of the HP books, but part of me is reaching for my > checkbook - after all, I do need a new watch.... > > -- Joywitch > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 19:37:27 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:37:27 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Literal interpretations? References: <8rrejr+1au4@eGroups.com> <002401c031d9$172f1640$759c0b3f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <01b401c032fd$90618a00$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3152 > Gee, Kelly, it's a wonder they don't really watch Slytherin very, very carefully. I know I would. Thanks for clarifying that for me. They're not all evil, I'm sure! Bear in mind Hagrid is not neutral towards Slytherin in any way - he's biased. A Slytherin got him expelled, remember. It's Voldemort's house too, enough to bias anyone. But please remember, it's only a small percentage of them who were/are actually DEs. Remember this quote from Sirius: "[Snape] was part of a group of Slyths who all became Death Eaters." Meaning the rest of them weren't. Plus I'm sure the other houses have their fair share of Dark Types. Ravenclaw intellect can be used for evil, so can Hufflepuff hard work, and they can be loyal to the wrong people, and Gryffindor courage could include the courage to go against society's rules. I think I need to write a fanfic about nice (ish) Slytherins... Redeem the house somehow. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 19:41:37 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:41:37 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse References: <8rrdk2+cj9r@eGroups.com> <39E1D0DA.8F4D0B35@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <01b501c032fd$91c07dc0$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3153 > If this is anything like US proceedings, and being a US based lawyer > with no familiarity with the UK justice system, or clearly, the > Wizarding justice system which is different again, there may be a chance > to "give testimony" in the form of a sworn statement, under oath - in > the US, it would be signed under penalty of perjury (i.e. you could be > sent to prison if you lie) - but you are only obligated to tell the > truth as you know it - in other words, if you say something false (i.e. > "Sirius Black was the Potters' Secret Keeper") but as far as you know > it, it's true, that isn't perjury. I believe it to be the same over here. Bear in mind the US system was taken wholesale from ours, so there's a LOT of similarities. Although a lot of differences too - ours has had more done to it over the years. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 20:27:06 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:27:06 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Smart Ravenclaws References: <8rtste+5pu1@eGroups.com> <39E28F8D.740C4886@ibm.net> Message-ID: <01bc01c032fd$9bad1460$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3154 > Uh, oh. I see another thread starting. Anyone want to take a stab at > guessing which Myers-Briggs types get put into each house? I had Gryffindor down as intuitive types, doing things without thinking but just because it seems the right thing to do. Hufflepuffs seem like practical sensation types. Ravenclaws are obviously thinking types. Which leaves Slytherin. As feeling types. Seems a little bit off, but then, what is power if not the ability to manipulate people's feelings to serve your end, and a way of ensuring people regard you well? I see Slytherin as a rather negative, insecure, version of the feeling type, constantly unable to feel loved in themselves, so they have to gain respect by manipulating people and dominating them. I wonder if we'll see more positive aspects emerging... Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 19:58:11 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:58:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History, American Parallelisms. References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> <011701c03224$b0c536e0$0d7b883e@default> <003701c0322f$6c4225e0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <01b701c032fd$9470a9a0$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3155 ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rogers To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort as History, American Parallelisms. > It wasn't until H.S. that we were taught of the horrors the US perpetrated themselves during WW2, concerning the Japanese-Americans and their camps. It doesn't matter what country you are a member of, all peoples have the possibility to treat people wrongly because of race or color, features, intelligence level, or even disability (esp. the US!). Voldemort's viewpoints are not an isolated case. Did the English/UK/British Isles do anything as bad as we during the war? I think we'd got the really bad stuff out of our system by then. Our questionable actions were all directed at the enemy, rather than our own citizens. Although there is some evidence that the Government knew about the Holocaust but did nothing to help Jewish refugees. Also the establishment was disturbingly pro-Hitler until war was actually declared. Jinx From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Oct 10 20:36:21 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:36:21 -0700 Subject: The Centaurs Take Sides In-Reply-To: <8rvs5c+33ed@eGroups.com> References: <43d6us4drfup04q6joauqv80hmppbploou@4ax.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001010132909.02784680@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3156 There's been a lot of talk about what part various folks will play as the fight against Voldemort heats up, but I haven't heard anyone discuss the Centaurs. What role will they take -- good, bad or neutral as Switzerland? I recently discovered that the word "bane" means someone evil or destructive. Does this suggest that Bane will go to Voldy's side? (And maybe Firenze on Dumbledore's?) -- Dave From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 21:03:26 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP Message-ID: <20001010210326.19830.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3157 --- Joywitch wrote: > Like many, if not most people in this group, I have mixed feelings > about this stuff. Part of me is really disgusted by the > commercialization of the HP books, but part of me is reaching for my > checkbook - after all, I do need a new watch.... Those are the same mixed feelings I am feeling, too. Will I become my own personal hypocrite and talk bad about evil capatilism, yet rush to the store to buy a HP shirt? Probably. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 21:01:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:01:09 -0500 Subject: reading References: <20001010201310.26082.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39E38394.6D959966@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3158 Anake wrote: > I was born in 1982 and am part of the class of 2001, bleah. I graduated from high school in 1982. I babysat your kind. > Sometimes I think it's just how you grew up. True. I was a quintessential "latchkey kid," well before the term was invented; last of four, and my mom went back to work when I was in 2nd grade. So I'd get home, let myself in, and hang around the house. And I usually elected to read. I think some of it depends on *how* one learned to read, too. My parents didn't teach us, per se, but they taught us how to sound things out and work through stuff at a time when reading was taught by rote memorization (at least at my school). It's my personal, totally unsupported theory that people who learned to read phonetically are those who enjoy it. Hm? All you little pipsqueaks out there? And stand up straight, and speak up so I can hear you, and respect the grey hair, here..... --Amanda (eh?) From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 20:05:18 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:05:18 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Clippings From The Daily Profit References: <8rt3jn+tfib@eGroups.com> <39E22993.E0E92674@swbell.net> Message-ID: <01b801c032fd$95d8c520$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3159 Just for those who have only heard the audios, here's a glossary of spelling. RIGHT Voldemort WRONG Voldamore, Voldamort, Voldemore RIGHT Slytherin WRONG Slitherin RIGHT Gryffindor WRONG Griffindor RIGHT Daily Prophet WRONG Daily Profit Those seem to be the common ones, especially Voldemort. I may add more. Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 9:24 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Clippings From The Daily Profit > Hi -- > > Eggplant -- I'm just curious: have you only listened to the audio > versions (and not read the books)? So much of your spelling is phonetic > & I'm just curious. It's The Daily Prophet for example (not Profit). I > know there are some people (my in-laws included) who have only listened > to the books & haven't read them -- I'm wondering if that's a sizeable > group or not. Anybody else who's listened to the books but not read > them? > > The audio versions are great btw. > > Penny > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 20:15:02 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:15:02 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: reactions to Dementors References: <8rtlmd+1naq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01ba01c032fd$9927a200$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3160 > It would be interesting to see what Ginny's boggart would be. Perhaps > it would be Voldemort (as Tom Riddle) or the Chamber of Secrets??? I > have a hard time believing that her brothers are particularly mean to > her. In PS/SS, Fred, George and Ron tell her not to cry and that they > will send her owls. Ron doesn't seem to torment her that much either. > In fact, her brothers are rather protective of her as witnessed in > GoF > when Fred and George grab her hand and run with her into the woods. On the other hand, in CoS they try and cheer up Ginny after the first attacks by leaping out at her with masks on, so they're not exactly angels. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 10 20:20:37 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:20:37 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Moody's treatment of Malfoy/Harry's mistrust of adults/Harry's consideration References: <8rtvnd+nk80@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01bb01c032fd$9a650400$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3161 > Reading. > Did kids really read more when we were growing up? (I may do a couple > of polls). I remember being fairly rare in my obsession with books > and reading, most of my peers did not read. It was great fun finally > finding other people who did in high school and college. Still, many > people I know don't read regularly. Up until this century, most people really couldn't read anyway - it's always been an upper/middle class thing. And most kids this century never read books much, more often comics, magazines and newspapers. And we're not talking highbrow mags and papers, either. Reading's always been a minority activity. Jinx From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 21:24:03 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:24:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Centaurs Take Sides References: <43d6us4drfup04q6joauqv80hmppbploou@4ax.com> <4.2.0.58.20001010132909.02784680@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <39E388F3.13B033B2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3162 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > I recently discovered that the word > "bane" means someone evil or destructive. *flip* *flip* *flip* ah, here we are....my, my, not a nice word. "bane. noun. From Anglo-Saxon bana, murderer. 1. That which destroys life, esp. deadly poison;--now only in ratsbane, henbane, etc. 2. Obsolete: Murder, death. 3. Ruin; woe; esp. destroying or ruining cause; source of irreparable harm. Verb, t. & i. To poison, to harm. So waving aside any possibility that JKR just liked the sound of the name, wow, what does this signify? I've heard this mostly used in the expression "the bane of my existence" as a major irritant, but clearly the word's mellowed in common parlance. The centaurs foresaw Voldemort's return. To our knowledge, they are the Switzerland of the magical world--they stay neutral, don't get involved in human affairs. Bane was the most vociferous of the three we met that the centaurs stay out of the whole affair. Perhaps his name reflects his attitude, or what could happen to the centaurs if they adopt his attitude? Firenze, who actively befriended Harry and disagreed with Bane--Firenze is the Italian for Florence. This probably was just a "sounds cool" thing? Ronan? Are we overreacting here? --Amanda. From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 10 21:23:07 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:23:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP References: <8rvv6c+49ga@eGroups.com> <39E382B8.AF23BE03@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39E388BB.4444DCF0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3163 Hi -- I just went to the wbstore.com site & it seems that the board game(s) & UNO cards are not available online. I wonder what else is only available by mail-order or in the stores? Hmmm . . . may have to go request a catalogue. I love the bookends, which I've had for several months. I want the 2 Christmas ornaments. But, those mugs . . . . could they make Harry look any worse? It's that same damn picture that Newsweek printed sometime pre-GoF in July that makes Harry look like he's stoned. Is Mary GrandPre doing the illustration work for WB or do they have their own artist? I love the depiction of Harry on my bookends -- he looks *exactly* right. But, those mugs are absolutely dreadful! Penny From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Oct 10 21:39:18 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:39:18 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dementors Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3164 > Amanda wrote > > Does anyone besides me think the demeanors might have "gone easier" on Voldemort's supporters? (snip) >My impression of the Dementors is that they really don't care who is who as long as they can feed off that person's joy and happiness. [snip] Which, I think, answers the original question. Certainly the dementors would go easier on Voldemort's supporters simply for the fact that there isn't much joy and happiness to be found there! Does that make any sense at all? voicelady From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 21:40:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:40:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8rvm59+fb1j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E38CCB.D9AB0B52@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3165 eliasberg at ioc.net wrote: > There is something bothering me.... Snape was a Death Eater > he showed us at the end of GoF and we know when the dark > mark burned on the arm we know they all congrigated around > Voldie. But Snape did not go to Voldemort. At the gap of about six people, Voldemort muses about the missing ones; the one that I think is Snape is the "one lost completely," but the point is, Snape wasn't there. The burning of the dark mark was a summons, not a transportation spell. Snape did not obey that summons. > So Snape knew Wormtail was the traitor not Sirius, he knows Sirius was an > enemy of Voldies and next to die after the Potters (he says that in PoA > that Voldie would come after him, but Snape would know because this would > have been discussed in the inner cicle meetings to plan the killings). I don't get the feeling that Voldemort was the type to over-explain his actions or orders. Or even to explain them at all, except at a whim or to fill a need for the instrument to understand its purpose. He's like Chernobog in Disney's Fantasia, the devil on the mountain, who is amused by the dancing imps and then gets bored and idly crushes them. I don't think Voldemort's interested in counsel, so I don't think there was much discussion. And I don't think any of the Death Eaters knew who the others were. So there is no good reason for Snape to know anything but the party line about Sirius, and to believe he was the traitor and the danger and that Pettigrew was dead. > Snape knows who all the inner circle is and has all along, Nope, I think somebody had that cite, that the Death Eaters were not known to each other. I think Snape was acting honestly under the information he had, although he was a bit zealous and did let the schoolboy grudge get in the way (which kind of reinforces what I think, that there was more involved than just a schoolboy grudge and even Lupin might not have known details which Sirius did). Nobody of Snape's personality could bear to be around anyone who knows they have been (in their opinion) humiliated, and if Lily turned Snape down, Snape would know she told James, which would mean Sirius would know, which would enrage Snape. I also think Snape was more than a little exasperated that he had managed to save these three little snits and nobody says so much as thank you, they all yell at him and want him to *listen* to this convicted murderer. Another reason for vehemence. --Amanda From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 10 21:42:25 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:42:25 +0100 Subject: Bane Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3166 Amanda wrote: "*flip* *flip* *flip* ah, here we are....my, my, not a nice word. "bane. noun. From Anglo-Saxon bana, murderer. 1. That which destroys life, esp. deadly poison;--now only in ratsbane, henbane, etc. 2. Obsolete: Murder, death. 3. Ruin; woe; esp. destroying or ruining cause; source of irreparable harm. Verb, t. & i. To poison, to harm." I much prefer the following meaning for bane (from the OED online - from the 15 century): A proclamation of a marriage; a prelude of a play. In the latter sense more freq. in pl. banes, now banns. Also it is an obsolete form of Bain (readily, willingly) adv. readily, and bone. The wonders of having a great dictionary at your fingertips! Simon From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 21:45:40 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:45:40 -0000 Subject: Administrative Stuff In-Reply-To: <8rlq6g+unk6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s02m4+h2l0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3167 -Responding to another REALLY old post! I have the disscussion of Mad Eye Moody. I was planningto discuss his character,(how it forwards the plot) focusing on what we know of the REAL Moody and how BCjr.'s actions affect those perceptions... What I'm trying to say, and not doing a good job of, is that you CAN disscuss BCjr. if you wish because I won't be soley focused on him. Scott -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Bonnie Kretschmer" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Melanie Moore" > > wrote: > > > For anyone else, the next date available is the week of January > > > 8-14, and there are also a couple of weeks open in March. > > > > > > For further information about those weeks, the address, again, is: > > > > > > http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion > > > > I'm sorry, that's > > http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html > > > > I apologize for any confusion. > > > > Melanie > > Np, I found the site. I am dissappointed that I missed book > #3 though... :( Ah well, I'm in another discussion group that > will get to it some time in early 2001. :o) > > I see that I am to also discuss Barty Crouch. Am I to assume > this is Crouch Sr.? After all, I saw a discussion later slotted > for Mad-Eye-Moody and it's going to be hard to discuss the > *real* Moody - so I guess that will become a discussion of > Barty Jr., right? Or do I discuss them both (Jr. and Sr.)? > > Bonnie From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 10 21:44:17 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:44:17 -0000 Subject: Hi all - I'm Back Message-ID: <8s02jh+i5jb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3168 Hi All, I'm back from being on NoMail for the past few months. Winter is coming, so much quieter at work, so with luck might be able to have time to read messages! Anyone know what the latest news is regarding the movie? Last thing I remember was when it was anounced that Gloucester Cathedral was going to be used as part of it. Tonight I heard some more news... not interesting news mind, but news. It appears that the filming of Harry Potter is causing a few headaches to Pantomime producers throughtout the South of England. The problem is that children are being cast for Harry Potter, and the children - quite rightly - are chooseing to accept the Harry Potter contract, rather than the Christmas Panto at the local theatre. Its great for a child I look after, as it means he is getting auditions coming left right and centre - but it got me thinking that the HP filming must be progressing now at some pace if they are on to casting the lesser roles - ie general students of Hogwarts. Well... if anyone can let me know (off list) a summary of anything real important I missed the past few months, please do let me know. Thanks Nick. --------------- http://www.broomsticks.org (but don't bother visiting as it's now real out of date, anyone want the domain name?) From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 21:45:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:45:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study References: <8rvma7+hruo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E38DE2.D45ED24B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3169 milz wrote: > I don't think Fudge is a Death Eater per se, but I think he is trying > to "keep clean" with both factions. If Voldemort gains power, Fudge > can always point to the instances where he has show a vague loyality > (from your list above). Even if Voldemort is defeated Fudge at this > point can say he was loyal to the Dumbledore by excusing his behavior > in GoF as being "cautious" and "moderate". I'd agree with this. I always have seen Fudge as the quintessential bureaucrat. He kind of reminded me of Clinton on the campaign trail, eternally on the fence to keep from offending either side, never taking a position not dictated by popular support. People of that stripe are often stuck in positions of power as appointees or compromise choices, since they can "work with everyone." --Amanda From Ciscokidfpm at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 22:01:36 2000 From: Ciscokidfpm at yahoo.com (Ciscokidfpm at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:01:36 -0000 Subject: commercialization of HP In-Reply-To: <8rvv6c+49ga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s03k0+7g9e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3170 It was bound to happen right. I just hope Rowlings doesn't give up her integraty in the story for the almaghty buck. It seemed that she wasn't doing so well and now she got some change. It's her fans that buys the books, but I hope that some ciggar chomping publicist doesn't spoil it!! Anyway, as long as items are sold at reasonable prices. I mean $150 bucks for a pair of tennis shoes. I know its Nike, but are they that great. From Ciscokidfpm at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 22:02:18 2000 From: Ciscokidfpm at yahoo.com (Ciscokidfpm at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:02:18 -0000 Subject: commercialization of HP In-Reply-To: <8rvv6c+49ga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s03la+4bjk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3171 It was bound to happen right. I just hope Rowlings doesn't give up her integraty in the story for the almaghty buck. It seemed that she wasn't doing so well and now she got some change. It's her fans that buys the books, but I hope that some ciggar chomping publicist doesn't spoil it!! Anyway, as long as items are sold at reasonable prices. I mean $150 bucks for a pair of tennis shoes. I know its Nike, but are they that great. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 22:03:45 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:03:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cornelius Fudge - Character Study References: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E39241.3A3F0BA7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3172 stevekimmel at yahoo.com wrote: > Question 1: Who are they? Is this some variation on a Voldemort plot > to move Dumbledore away from Hogwarts? Nah, I think it's more along the lines of letting us as readers know that Fudge is not an outstanding warrior of light appointed to his post by popular acclaim after his heroic actions. He's a second choice, a fill-the-desk guy. > Question 2: How does someone get to be the Minister of Magic? > Apparently not because of your abilities. We've never been treated to a demonstration of Fudge's abilities, except perhaps at organization. And I don't care what you're minister of, minister of anything must be a politician and an organizer. Fudge is an outstanding bureaucrat, and that's probably what they needed, rebuilding after Voldemort. And has anyone done any analysis on the governing form of the wizarding world? Is there a council, or elected body, or do we know anything at all? > Hagrid describes Fudge as being a bungler who sends owls everyday > asking Dumbledore for advice. Hagrid has a certain talent for overstatement in making his points. > Although Fudge is not explicitly identified as the sender, there is an owl > sent from the Ministry of Magic calling Dumbledore away at the critical > moment when Quirrell is going to make his attempt on the stone. Had Fudge > been identified as the sender, then perhaps I would be more willing to > accept Fudge's > "flip" to Voldemort's side. I don't see how he's clearly on Voldemort's side, at least from what we've seen thus far. He's just unwilling to the point of idiocy to admit Voldemort might be back, but you can hardly call that a flip in position. > Question 3: If it was Fudge who called Dumbledore away, how did he > know Quirrell was going to make his attempt that night? Voldemort was > so weak that it is doubtful he could have informed Fudge by magic. I don't think it was. I think Quirrell arranged the owl. > Question 4: In retrospect, why did Fudge seek to send Hagrid away To keep his critics happy. "Look at it from my point of view....I'm under a lot of pressure." > and the same time Voldemort's other follower, Lucious Malfoy, is trying > to rid Hogwarts of Dumbledore? Is Hagrid more important than we have > previously thought? Malfoy wants anyone and everyone who disagrees with him and his pureblood theories out of Hogwarts. > Our most extensive contact with Fudge comes in Prisoner of Azkaban. > It is Fudge who meets Harry when he steps off the knight bus and sets > him up at the Inn. Presumably he knew the truth about Sirius Black > and knew that Sirius was actually not a threat to Harry. Why do you presume this? > Presumably his actions were consistent toward eliminating another foe of > Voldemort's. How so? > By the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, Fudge has grown from being a > bungler to an officious twit. He was *always* an officious twit, that's why Hagrid thought he was a bungler. > At the beginning of Goblet of Fire he is still the friendly, fatherly > type toward Harry though prone to officious prissiness. At the end > though, we see him defending everyone Harry mentions as a Deatheater, > casting aspersions on Harry's reliability and refusing to go along > with Dumbledore's plans to thwart Voldemort. He's choosing to hear what he wants to hear, and see what he wants to see (a la The Point, any other old Nilsson fans out there?). I'm not denying he may be under the influence of Voldemort, especially since Voldemort is now around to exert that influence personally, but I think up to the point of the book 4 confrontation, he's easily explainable as an officious twit. > Question 6: Is there an explanation of Fudge's actions other than his > being a follower of Voldemort? Yep. --Amanda From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Oct 10 22:05:53 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:05:53 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3173 My husband, awesome man that he is, got me for my birthday the canvas wall hanging with the cover of the American version Sorcerer's Stone. I, myself, just went online last week and ordered the cloth-bound version of GoF. And I just won an ebay auction for some Muggles for HP buttons. I am definitely going a little bit overboard, wouldn't you say? But I've never been as gung-ho with any other hobby, so I've decided against going for professional help. Yet. voicelady From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 22:09:10 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:09:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8rveq5+pa6g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E39386.B69F5C36@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3174 milz wrote: > I think Snape was very much aware who Wormtail, Padfoot, Moony and > Prongs are. Remember he told Lupin and Harry that he thought HArry > got the map straight from the manufacturers. But he was speaking to one of the manufacturers! This is what I don't understand. That whole exchange is so strange if you assume he knows at the time that Lupin is Moony, from both Snape and Lupin. > I think Snape had connected that Wormtail= Pettigrew= Sirius > innocent. Perhaps not at the moment Sirius tranfigured, but maybe > later. And so he accepted Dumbledore's word, as someone suggested, and later Dumbledore explained it to him? I can go with that; Snape is nothing if not loyal. > Afterall, a lot happened that night and it would take a while > to absorb all of it! I think he completely realized it by the Leaving > Feast. Harry had a difficult time reading Snape's expression when > their eyes briefly met. Yeah, I thought that was really significant, and could portend all sorts of things. > My guess is that Snape and Sirius have great trust in Dumbledore and > that's the basis for working together. I still think they loathe each > other, but they know of what Voldemort is capable and that outweighs > their mutual dislike. We hope. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 10 22:12:29 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:12:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bane References: Message-ID: <39E3944C.6902AF81@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3175 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > I much prefer the following meaning for bane (from the OED online - from the > 15 century): A proclamation of a marriage; a prelude of a play. In the > latter sense more freq. in pl. banes, now banns. > > Also it is an obsolete form of Bain (readily, willingly) adv. readily, and > bone. > > The wonders of having a great dictionary at your fingertips! Well, I have an OED, but it's the teeny print two-volume version and the magnifying glass has gone the way of all nice parent things. I usedta could read it unassisted....alas for my lost youth! --Amanda From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 10 22:19:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:19:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP References: Message-ID: <39E395DE.27C3CAE4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3176 Hi -- voicelady wrote: > I, myself, just went online last week and ordered the cloth-bound > version of GoF. Where did you find this Voicelady? I hadn't heard of it before & just checked bn.com & amazon -- nothing listed. Is it the same as the UK Deluxe editions? Or, is it an American special edition? > And I just won an ebay auction for some Muggles for HP buttons. I am > definitely going a little bit overboard, wouldn't you say? But I've > never been as gung-ho with any other hobby, so I've decided against > going for professional help. Yet. Nah -- you're not over the top yet. I have several editions of each book (HB & pb of the US editions, regular trade UK editions & the Deluxe Collectors' editions of the UK versions). The WB bookends. The Reading is Magic HP poster (framed & matted & hanging in my study I might add). Both cassettes & CDs of the audio versions. A Muggles for HP button. A Gryffindor t-shirt, a Quidditch t-shirt & the Hogwarts crest t-shirt. Hmmm . . . that's it so far. But, I did just ask for a myriad of things (including all the Hallmark merchandise & the WB ornaments) for my birthday next month. I can't decide about those canvas wall hangings -- are you happy with your SS one Voicelady? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 10 22:34:33 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:34:33 +0100 Subject: messages Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3177 Penny wrote: "Good luck with printing all that stuff Simon. I've had the recent brilliant idea of cutting & pasting the relevant messages into a word processing file & then working from that. Will see how that works." That was how I started, but I found I was then on the computer for long periods of time and getting headaches. So I decided the printing option would be better (it has just finished - a delight to read tomorrow). I have gone as far as message 2500 so far but on current rate will have to cover another 1000 messages to get up to date (It seems to be going a bit manic at the moment). Simon From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 22:38:17 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:38:17 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s05op+hnd1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3178 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > < But I've never been as gung-ho with any other hobby, so I've decided against going for professional help. Yet. I am about model cars; I'm STILL hoping to get a decent 1:24 or 1:25 model kit (all-plastic, please, not diecast metal) of a '60s Anglia out of this! From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 22:50:58 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 15:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: commercialization of HP Message-ID: <20001010225058.16997.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3179 --- Ciscokidfpm at yahoo.com wrote: > Anyway, as long as items are sold at reasonable prices. I mean $150 > bucks for a pair of tennis shoes. I know its Nike, but are they that > great. Plus, the shoes are made by poor children in Third World countries, who make only cents an hour, and whose parents would give their lives to let their children have $150. My respect for Michael Jordan, because of that, has gone down. I mean, it's not as if he didn't have millions aside from Nike endorsement. There's a jock in my World Lit. class who is doing his Senior Paper on MJ because he considers MJ to be his hero. No comment. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Oct 10 22:52:47 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:52:47 -0000 Subject: I go away for awhile and.... (movie comments) Message-ID: <8s06jv+mibd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3180 ...Wind up with thousands of messages to wade through! (Seriously, I had trouble with egroups for a while). Anyway; -Merchandise; right now we're just seeing the cheap-to-make stuff. Wait 'till the '01 holiday season when you won't be able to walk into Wal-Mart without seeing hundreds of HP- based action figures. The big chain stores killed Star Wars last year with their overly optimistic pre-ordering; will we see Harry gathering dust like Anakin did? -Movie; I looked at some of the stills, and I like what I've seen of the movie's look so far. Was that a mid-to-late '90s car (the maroon one) in the background on Privet Drive? I'm sure they wouldn't bother "dressing" a set to move back in time a mere 10 years, when there's the whole wizarding world to blow the budget on! Also, thanks to the "magic" of on-set stills, we now know what Hogwarts students wear -under- their robes! Looks like fairy typical British school uniforms (are they?), but how do they get the house-color tie and sweater trim before they've been Sorted? From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 10 23:19:10 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:19:10 -0000 Subject: commercialization of HP, somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <20001010210326.19830.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8s085e+51oe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3181 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Anake wrote: > > --- Joywitch wrote: > > > Like many, if not most people in this group, I have mixed feelings > > about this stuff. Part of me is really disgusted by the > > commercialization of the HP books, but part of me is reaching for my > > checkbook - after all, I do need a new watch.... > > Those are the same mixed feelings I am feeling, too. Will I become my own personal > hypocrite and talk bad about evil capatilism, yet rush to the store to buy a HP > shirt? Probably. That is the problem with capitalism - it thrives on, and results in more, inequality and oppression, yet at the same time it produces the coolest, most awesome toys. It is pretty damn hard NOT to be a hypocrite. -- Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 10 23:33:24 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:33:24 -0000 Subject: commercialization of HP In-Reply-To: <39E395DE.27C3CAE4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8s0904+ma6e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3182 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > voicelady wrote: > > > I, myself, just went online last week and ordered the cloth-bound > > version of GoF. > > Where did you find this Voicelady? I think cloth-bound is just another expression that means hard cover. > I can't decide about those canvas wall > hangings -- are you happy with your SS one Voicelady? > canvas wall hangings? what canvas wall hangings? they werent in the WB catalog, I dont think??????? -- Joywitch From donnadr at gte.net Tue Oct 10 23:35:41 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:35:41 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Centaurs Take Sides References: <43d6us4drfup04q6joauqv80hmppbploou@4ax.com> <4.2.0.58.20001010132909.02784680@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <008401c03312$ce800c20$b7e3113f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3183 Then there's the giants, Dave...I got the feeling while reading GoF that having the giants on their side was important in some way. Has this been discussed? Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hardenbrook To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 4:36 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Centaurs Take Sides There's been a lot of talk about what part various folks will play as the fight against Voldemort heats up, but I haven't heard anyone discuss the Centaurs. What role will they take -- good, bad or neutral as Switzerland? I recently discovered that the word "bane" means someone evil or destructive. Does this suggest that Bane will go to Voldy's side? (And maybe Firenze on Dumbledore's?) -- Dave eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 00:01:55 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:01:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Talented Mr. Riddle References: <8rgejk+i7l5@eGroups.com> <39DBC441.74FB28E2@alumni.upenn.edu> <000a01c02f48$e0aa93c0$50c64b0c@cq5wu> <39DDBD8F.96315B67@ibm.net> <004101c0310e$dc5476c0$fb8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <016c01c03316$78980660$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3184 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jinx" To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 5:02 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] The Talented Mr. Riddle > Or maybe very few people knew that Voldy was Tom Riddle, because Tom Riddle > was dead. I wouldn't put it past Voldemort to fake his own death and leave > Tom Riddle behind him for good, before fleeing somewhere very remote to > study the Dark Arts. Right - but Dumbledore did somehow learn of the Riddle-Voldemort link, but chose not to make this information widely available. Perhaps he assumed that no traces of Riddle survived, not having been aware of the magic diary (but the Malfoys certainly knew of it). - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 00:12:23 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:12:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody References: <8rr489+nf64@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <018901c03317$ee6d9fc0$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3185 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 7:41 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 13 - Mad Eye Moody > Question 2 : Why did we believe Moody is Harry's friend and > benefactor? JKR "faked" us out, knowing we would not suspect that, for a second time, the DADA professor would be the hidden traitor. In the wake of Prof. Lupin, we were also getting comfortable with the idea of knowledgble trustworthy DADA profs. Also, he was attested for by Dumbledore and other faculty members as a mighty warrior against the Dark Lords. Remember too that in Chapter 30, we do see the "real" Moody (at least Moody in Dumbledore's presumably accurate memory) when Harry witnesses the Anti-Voldy purges. This also serves to reinforce the idea that Moody was an ally of long-standing. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 00:14:14 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:14:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Clippings From The Daily Profit References: <8rt3jn+tfib@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01ac01c03318$30c93be0$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3186 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:43 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Clippings From The Daily Profit > [As you probably know Molly Weasley's book has been number one on the > wizard's best seller list for 27 straight weeks now Actually, I did not know that: my local wizard paper refuses to include any books about Harry Potter on their lists. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 00:28:25 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:28:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cornelius Fudge - Character Study References: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01d701c0331a$2bd63a00$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3187 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:24 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cornelius Fudge - Character Study Cornelius Fudge - Minister of Magic Our most extensive contact with Fudge comes in Prisoner of Azkaban. It is Fudge who meets Harry when he steps off the knight bus and sets him up at the Inn. Presumably he knew the truth about Sirius Black and knew that Sirius was actually not a threat to Harry. Presumably his actions were consistent toward eliminating another foe of Voldemort's. How could Fudge have known? How could anyone have known? I imagine that Voldy would have known that Black was never one of his followers, but even the other Deatheaters would not have known for sure about Sirius. Remember what Karkaroff said in the show-trial scene (GoF, Chapter 30) "[Voldemort] operated always in the greatest secrecy...we never knew the names of every one of our fellows - He alone knew exactly who we all were...." Granted, Karkaroff is trying to save his own skin here, but his statement sounds very believable in terms of how Voldy would have worked. I'm sure Voldy never posted a full Death Eaters membership list on his website (or Wizardly equivalent thereof). Cornelius Fudge (love that name!) could turn out to be a Deatheater, but it seems unlikely - he's more the typical politician, who is more interested in protecting the good name of his agency rather than actually dealing with problems effectively (since that carries a greater risk of failure). - CMC Question 5: Go back and reread that section. If Fudge is really a follower of Voldemort and Black, were his responses to Harry appropriate? By the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, Fudge has grown from being a bungler to an officious twit. At the beginning of Goblet of Fire he is still the friendly, fatherly type toward Harry though prone to officious prissiness. At the end though, we see him defending everyone Harry mentions as a Deatheater, casting aspersions on Harry's reliability and refusing to go along with Dumbledore's plans to thwart Voldemort. Question 6: Is there an explanation of Fudge's actions other than his being a follower of Voldemort? Do you believe his actions? I don't. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 00:30:14 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:30:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Glad to find this site References: <8rqilj+76ad@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <020201c0331a$6d0cde20$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3188 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 2:41 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Glad to find this site > Hi! I am Martha and as you can tell I am new. I am glad to find an > all adult Harry Potter site. I guess we are going chapter by chapter > which will be hard for me as I have sooooo many theories about sooooo > many things and would love to hear everyone else's. Welcome! But you need not limit yourself to the Chapter under discussion - fire away on anything of interest. - CMC From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 00:23:12 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:23:12 -0400 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons - last call Message-ID: <39E3B2F0.FD42011@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3189 The buttons have arrived! I am placing a jpg of the file in one of the group folders over at egroups for anyone who wants to see it. They say Put Wizardry Back In The White House & have a photo of Al & a pic of harry from the front of the US GOF. If you're already sent me an order, you should get your button as soon as I get your $$ - please send a check for 3.50 per button (yes, that includes shipping & handling for those in the US - if you're outisde the US, please add an extra $1 per button) to me at 200 east broward boulevard, 17th floor, ft lauderdale, fl 33301 (that's my office) I ordered more than had been requested - if you still want one but didn't order one yet, drop me a note - I'll fill as many requests as I can. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 00:29:03 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:29:03 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP References: <39E395DE.27C3CAE4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39E3B44F.22181145@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3190 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > > I can't decide about those canvas wall > hangings My son's bedroom is decorated in original bookstore posters advertising the first 4 books - and I spent a stupidly large amount of money to buy a prerelease of Sorcerer's Stone poster, which is incredibly incredibly cool. One can usually find them on ebay, and personally, I like them (framed & matted, of course) a lot more than I like the canvas wallhangings, I guess because they're *really* relating to the books. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 00:47:21 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:47:21 -0400 Subject: administrative stuff References: <8rvlqd+tmn4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E3B899.5FDE83CA@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3191 Penny has asked me to handle the little job of Reassessing the Chapter Discussion Allocation. As many of you know, this list has weekly discussions of Goblet of Fire, chapter by chapter, and character (or group of character) by character. The person whose chapter it is that week kicks off the chapter discussion by summarizing & raising "discussion points" or questions. They then, in a separate post, take the character of the week & do a brief character sketch & raise some discussion matters. Over the course of the week (although some threads have gone on longer) the list discusses that chapter and the selected character(s) (although, of course, nothing prevents discussions of other chapters & characters from popping up as they are wont to do). Here's the problem. Some of the people who originally signed up for chapter discussions have left the list. Other people have joined. The current list of chapters and their "sponsors" is at http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html - but we want to have *everyone* who has agreed to do a chapter, after Chapter 17, to reconfirm by emailing ME (not penny) at heiditandy at the-beach.net by OCTOBER 15. Next monday, any chapters/characters which have not been reconfirmed will reenter the pot, and I will send around another email asking for volunteers to take any then-unclaimed chapters. Chapters 16 & 17 (Trina & Scott) will not change. If you know someone who has agreed to do a chapter is out of town, please let me know & I'll put them in limbo for now. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 01:06:10 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:06:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8rvm59+fb1j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <031b01c0331f$74dfca40$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3192 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:11 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing > There is something bothering me.... Snape was a Death Eater > he showed us at the end of GoF and we know when the dark > mark burned on the arm we know they all congrigated around > Voldie. So Snape knew Wormtail was the traitor not Sirius, he > knows Sirius was an enemy of Voldies and next to die after the > Potters (he says that in PoA that Voldie would come after him, > but Snape would know because this would have been > discussed in the inner cicle meetings to plan the killings). > Snape knows who all the inner circle is and has all along, so the > only reason to treat Sirius badly isn't because he is Voldies right > hand man, just a boyhood grudge, just my opinion though I may > be wrong. Just a few minutes ago in response to another post, I pointed out Karkaroff's statement in GoF Chapter 30 that no one besides Voldemort knew the identities of all the Death Eaters. Even if Snape knew Pettigrew was a Voldy supporter, Black's absence would not have proven that he was not of Voldemort's faction. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 01:23:44 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:23:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Clippings From The Daily Profit References: <8rt3jn+tfib@eGroups.com> <39E22993.E0E92674@swbell.net> <01b801c032fd$95d8c520$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <04a101c03321$e67f1780$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3193 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jinx" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Clippings From The Daily Profit > Just for those who have only heard the audios, here's a glossary of > spelling. > > RIGHT > Voldemort > > WRONG > Voldamore, Voldamort, Voldemore So the final t in Voldemort is silent? ( "T" Who Must Not Be Named?) - CMC From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Oct 11 01:21:46 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:21:46 -0700 Subject: Harry Potter chess set? (was: commercialization of HP, somewhat OT) In-Reply-To: <8s085e+51oe@eGroups.com> References: <20001010210326.19830.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001010181102.02695d50@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3194 At 11:19 PM 10/10/00 +0000, Joywitch wrote: >That is the problem with capitalism - it thrives on, and results in >more, inequality and oppression, yet at the same time it produces the >coolest, most awesome toys. It is pretty damn hard NOT to be a >hypocrite. Yes, I know what you mean... So when's the Harry Potter chess set coming out? :) :) Seriously, I think this is a good idea... I've even worked out a "lineup" (Students vs. Faculty): White (Students) QR: Penelope QN: Crookshanks QB: Ron Q: Hermione K: Harry KB: Neville KN: Hedwig KR: Percy Pawns: Fleur, Viktor, Seamus, Dean, Lavander, Parvati, Fred, George Black (Faculty/Grownups): QR: Sirius QN: Buckbeak QB: Snape Q: McGonnegal K: Dumbledore KB: Hagrid KN: Norbert KR: Lupin Pawns: Flitwick, Sprout, Filch, Trelawney, Moody, Rosmerta, Mr. & Mrs. Weasley -- Dave From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 02:30:09 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:30:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] al gore/harry potter buttons - last call References: <39E3B2F0.FD42011@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <009701c0332b$2ed38bc0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3195 Heidi. Would you take paypal? Crosses fingers? Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 7:23 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] al gore/harry potter buttons - last call The buttons have arrived! I am placing a jpg of the file in one of the group folders over at egroups for anyone who wants to see it. They say Put Wizardry Back In The White House & have a photo of Al & a pic of harry from the front of the US GOF. If you're already sent me an order, you should get your button as soon as I get your $$ - please send a check for 3.50 per button (yes, that includes shipping & handling for those in the US - if you're outisde the US, please add an extra $1 per button) to me at 200 east broward boulevard, 17th floor, ft lauderdale, fl 33301 (that's my office) I ordered more than had been requested - if you still want one but didn't order one yet, drop me a note - I'll fill as many requests as I can. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 01:51:33 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:51:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: References: <8ruf33+30n5@eGroups.com> <39E324E9.5635B2A9@texas.net> Message-ID: <051201c03325$c90c31c0$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3196 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: > Rita Winston wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > > > > > Slitherin, Snape - allusions to "snake" or snake-like > > > > Blaise very wonderfully found out that 'snape' is an old dialect word > > for 'rebuke', which certainly fits him. > > It's also so reminiscent of 'snap,' an abrupt breaking, which fits with > Severus, which sounds like 'sever' and 'severe.' Appropriate name all round. Its also reminiscent for ancient history fans of the Roman Emperor Septimus Severus (who reigned from 193-211) I just checked out my e-text of Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall to get the dates of his reign, and, re-reading some of the text, it turns out my allusion was even more apt than I first suspected. At the beginning of Chapter Six, Gibbon tells us "Severus was passionately addicted to the vain studies of magic and divination, deeply versed in the interpretation of dreams and omens, and perfectly acquainted with the science of judicial astrology...." - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 02:13:59 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:13:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Weathermen? References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> <009f01c030dd$83d42d00$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39E0D3B2.81D338BB@texas.net> Message-ID: <068901c03328$eb2a4be0$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3197 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" To: Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] OT--Weathermen? >Seems like we get taught selective history, and not just in history classes That's why we must make Hermione our role model, and visit the library at regular intervals. - CMC From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 11 02:08:53 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:08:53 -0000 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing In-Reply-To: <39E39386.B69F5C36@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s0i3l+5jvu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3198 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > milz wrote: > > > I think Snape was very much aware who Wormtail, Padfoot, Moony and > > Prongs are. Remember he told Lupin and Harry that he thought HArry > > got the map straight from the manufacturers. > > But he was speaking to one of the manufacturers! This is what I don't > understand. That whole exchange is so strange if you assume he knows at the > time that Lupin is Moony, from both Snape and Lupin. > > > I think Snape had connected that Wormtail= Pettigrew= Sirius > > innocent. Perhaps not at the moment Sirius tranfigured, but maybe > > later. > > And so he accepted Dumbledore's word, as someone suggested, and later > Dumbledore explained it to him? I can go with that; Snape is nothing if not > loyal. > > > Afterall, a lot happened that night and it would take a while > > to absorb all of it! I think he completely realized it by the Leaving > > Feast. Harry had a difficult time reading Snape's expression when > > their eyes briefly met. > > Yeah, I thought that was really significant, and could portend all sorts of > things. > > > My guess is that Snape and Sirius have great trust in Dumbledore and > > that's the basis for working together. I still think they loathe each > > other, but they know of what Voldemort is capable and that outweighs > > their mutual dislike. > > We hope. > > --Amanda I re-read that Chapter, "Snape's Grudge". It is a curious interchange between Lupin and Snape. After re-reading it, I have the feeling now that Snape suspected the identities of Moony, Prongs, Wormtail and Padfoot. Snape seems to have been measuring Lupin's reaction/body language to the map. Lupin did a fairly impressive job of being completely ignorant of the map, so Snape couldn't definitely say "A-HA!". As I re-read parts of PoA, I noticed that Snape is very in-tune with body language and picks up very quickly when someone is cornered. For example, when Snape sees Harry and Neville in hall near the witch statue, Harry is tense and trying to get rid of Neville. Snape picks up on it and shoos them away. :-) Milz From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Oct 11 02:21:06 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:21:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle References: Message-ID: <06ef01c03329$e98a3b00$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3199 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon J. Branford" To: "HPforGU" Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 7:54 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle > > It does leave the question of what people thought had happened to Tom > Riddle. He is supposedly one of the greatest students ever to go to Hogwarts > and then he goes missing. Did anyone make any enquires? > Or do we get left with the answer that Lord Voldemort killed Tom Riddle > (this idea is taken from some film - Star Wars?). Tom Riddle was killed, along with his parents, sometime in the early 40s, as we learn in GoF, Chapter 1. They seem to have been victims of Avada Kedrava, The Killing Curse. Just how Voldy engineered this is yet to be explained. - CMC From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 11 02:19:35 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:19:35 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Coloring Fun Book In-Reply-To: <8rafmu+k16@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s0inn+nhnl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3200 I got the book in the mail today. The drawings are rather nice. The Potions Drawing appears to be the same one used in the WB Store's Poster. One tiny criticism..... They really "uglified" Snape! Well, no I take that back. The more I look at it, Snape looks sort of like Dr. Smith from the "Lost in Space" TV Series. :-) Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > The Coloring Book is reasonable. When I was begging Scholastic to > sell me one because I don't have/know a child who belongs to a > Scholastic book club, the price they quoted was $5. 95. I was told > that Scholastic wasn't selling the coloring book to non-club members > because it was used as a replacement for a another book. So the > $6 .95 is a heck of alot better than the EBay prices or the Yahoo > auction price of $15. > > I really didn't know how the prices of the other items compared. > Thanks for the FYI, Vicki. :-) > > --Milz > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Vicki Merriman" > wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Anyhow, I recently found this web site > > > http://www.thelatestcrazestore.com . It carries the > aforementioned > > > book plus posters, mugs, etc. The book costs $6. 95. > > > > The coloring book may be a good deal if its the only place you can > > get one, but the other stuff is definitely NOT. They are selling > the > > ornaments for 25.00 a piece when I just purchased them in the WB > > store for 8 and $10 respectively. That's a $50 total v. $18, which > > seems a tad excessive on the profit margin. > > > > Also, my mugs only cost $8.00 a piece and they wanted $12.00 each > for > > the two I purchased, so that's a 50% increase. > > > > If you've got a local WB store, definitely go there. If you DON"T > > have a local WB, try to find it elsewhere on line, maybe at the > > regular online WB store. It has to be cheaper. > > > > However, if I can't find the coloring book elsewhere, I may shell > out > > the money for it, but I'll look elsewhere first. > > > > Vicki From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Oct 11 02:14:41 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:14:41 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle References: <06ef01c03329$e98a3b00$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <008901c03329$057986a0$f9af20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3201 > > Tom Riddle was killed, along with his parents, sometime in the early 40s, as > we learn in GoF, Chapter 1. They seem to have been victims of Avada Kedrava, > The Killing Curse. Just how Voldy engineered this is yet to be explained. > > - CMC The Tom Riddle killed in chapter 1 of GoF was Tom Sr. Voldy's Dad. carole From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Oct 11 02:46:03 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:46:03 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s0k9b+pnkr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3202 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, stevekimmel at y... wrote: > Cornelius Fudge ? Minister of Magic > Question 1: Who are they? Is this some variation on a Voldemort plot > to move Dumbledore away from Hogwarts? I think "they" are whomever elects the Minister of magic whether that be a party or the wizard population at large. Its definitely a politcal office rather than one determined by wizarding skill. > Question 3: If it was Fudge who called Dumbledore away, how did he > know Quirrell was going to make his attempt that night? Voldemort was > so weak that it is doubtful he could have informed Fudge by magic. I have always assumed the owl was sent by Quirrell to get Dummbledore away from Hogwarts so he could steal the stone...Fudge having nothing to do with it. Din't it imply in SS that the people at the ministry were surprised to see Dumbledore...maybe thats my imagination.... > Question 4: In retrospect, why did Fudge seek to send Hagrid away and > the same time Voldemort's other follower, Lucious Malfoy, is trying > to rid Hogwarts of Dumbledore? Is Hagrid more important than we have > previously thought? Hagrid was the scapegoat...he'd been the scapegoat (although we didn't know that at the time) 50 years previously, he's the obvious choice, plus as someone else pointed out it satisfied the public demand that he do "something" > Presumably he knew the truth about Sirius Black > and knew that Sirius was actually not a threat to Harry. Presumably > his actions were consistent toward eliminating another foe of > Voldemort's. > I've never thought for a moment that Fudge knew the truth about Sirius. He had had to inform the muggle authorities that Sirius was on the loose and a dangerous criminal. If he'd known the truth about Sirius why would he have gone through that charade. In fact Fudge still doesn't know the truth about Sirius, otherwise why would Sirius still be in hiding..I assume the minister of magic would have some power to pardon...Plus wasn't Fudge in on the conversation in the 3 broomsticks where its related that Sirius was thought to be the secret-keeper...Fudge never does anything but agree with that whole line of conversation. > though, we see him defending everyone Harry mentions as a >Deatheater, Most of those mentioned were prominent members of the wizarding community, large charitable contributions were mentioned...I think he's naive and he can not believe that someone who is "important" could also be evil... > Question 6: Is there an explanation of Fudge's actions other than his > being a follower of Voldemort? He's an ostrich...and I think its right in character for him he's the quintesential politician without an ounce of the ability to see the truth when its staring you in the face if it might upset the boat. carole From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 02:48:47 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:48:47 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter chess set? (was: commercialization of HP, somewhat OT) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001010181102.02695d50@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8s0kef+m53d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3203 < Seriously, I think this is a good idea... I've even worked out a "lineup" (Students vs. Faculty): White (Students) > QR: Penelope > QN: Crookshanks > QB: Ron > Q: Hermione > K: Harry > KB: Neville > KN: Hedwig > KR: Percy > Pawns: Fleur, Viktor, Seamus, Dean, Lavander, Parvati, Fred, George> No way! Fred and George should be the rooks; demote Penelope and especially Pretentious Percy before it goes to their heads! :-) From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 02:57:19 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:57:19 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3204 ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Caius Marcius" Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:21:06 -0500 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon J. Branford" To: "HPforGU" Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 7:54 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle > > It does leave the question of what people thought had happened to Tom > Riddle. He is supposedly one of the greatest students ever to go to Hogwarts > and then he goes missing. Did anyone make any enquires? > Or do we get left with the answer that Lord Voldemort killed Tom Riddle > (this idea is taken from some film - Star Wars?). Tom Riddle was killed, along with his parents, sometime in the early 40s, as we learn in GoF, Chapter 1. They seem to have been victims of Avada Kedrava, The Killing Curse. Just how Voldy engineered this is yet to be explained. - CMC Tom riddle *Snr* was killed, Tom Riddle Jnr dissappeared, later to become Voldemort. As to Simons's questoin as to why ppl didn't look for him - maybe he had never made the kind of friends at school who would look out for him (or they knew where he was going). He certainly didn't have any family. Once he had turned down the (inevitable) position at the MoM they probably didn;t care either storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Wed Oct 11 02:34:32 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:34:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks References: <8rvl1a+nnvn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E3D1B8.C3A48D80@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3205 Joywitch wrote: > Although the point Steve makes in the Lexicon that there seems to be > an awful lot of socks in the HP books really struck me. Not only > Dobbys fascination with socks and the Dumbledore/Erised sock remark, > but also Uncle Vernon gives Harry an old pair of his socks for one > birthday; the pocket sneakoscope gets wrapped in socks. Doesnt Harry > buy socks in Hogsmeade for Dobby? (or did I make that up?) What is > it with the socks? > Maybe J.K. Rowling is a secret foot fetishist. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Wed Oct 11 02:40:25 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:40:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8rvm59+fb1j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E3D319.BAE40C7D@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3206 eliasberg at ioc.net wrote: > There is something bothering me.... Snape was a Death Eater > he showed us at the end of GoF and we know when the dark > mark burned on the arm we know they all congrigated around > Voldie. > Snape knows who all the inner circle is and has all along, so the > only reason to treat Sirius badly isn't because he is Voldies right > hand man, just a boyhood grudge, just my opinion though I may > be wrong. Dave Not necessarily--I think Karkaroff said on the stand that each of the Deatheaters only knew who a few of the others were. Of course, he could have been lying--we know he lied about plenty else. But he might have been telling the truth--it is a pretty standard modus operandi for terrorist organizations: operate at the cell level, so that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is up to--it helps with plausible deniability when you're busted and have to go to trial. I think it's probable Snape truly didn't know that Wormtail was the traitor rather than Sirius. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Wed Oct 11 03:21:34 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:21:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading References: Message-ID: <39E3DCBE.F5E84005@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3207 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Susan asked: "Did kids really read more when we were growing up? (I may do a > couple of polls). I remember being fairly rare in my obsession with books > and reading, most of my peers did not read. It was great fun finally finding > other people who did in high school and college. Still, many people I know > don't read regularly." > > I read little while at school but now I am at university I always have a > book on the go (and quite often more than one - not to mention fan fiction > as well). I have always been a voracious reader. I watch no television now, and I never understand it when people say, "I don't have time to read." I have a full time job and two kids, and I have time to read. When I leave my job at the end of the day, as I push the elevator button, I'm whipping my book out of my bag, and I'm reading on my walk to the bus stop. Once, I tried a week of reading deprivation, at the suggestion of _The Artist's Way_, a book on creativity, just to see what it was like. Boy, by the end of the week, I was ready to claw my eyeballs out. I am totally addicted to reading. I discovered that, whenever I am idle, my brain seeks out something to read, whether it's the book of my seatmate on the bus (read over the shoulder), or posters or boxtops or . . . My best friend, Kij Johnson (also a novelist) also tried the same experiment and had the same reaction. Toward the end of the week, she got so desperate that she picked up a book on Japanese history and read over two hundred footnotes, reasoning that she wasn't reading the text of the book itself, so it wasn't "really reading." There are worse vices I could have, I suppose. Peg From Ellimist15 at aol.com Wed Oct 11 04:15:22 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:15:22 EDT Subject: The Centaurs Take Sides Message-ID: <26.bcd8b64.2715435a@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3208 Amanda Lewanski wrote: Firenze, who actively befriended Harry and disagreed with Bane--Firenze is the Italian for Florence. This probably was just a "sounds cool" thing? The connection between Firenze (Florence) and a stargazing centaur is Galileo. He was a very famous astronomer, and he was buried in Firenze. Therefore, the name would be fairly appropriate. As always, more random HP name stuff can be found at my website: http://www.cornishpixie.cjb.net Ellie Rosenthal From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 11 04:21:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:21:04 -0000 Subject: hubris In-Reply-To: <39E32261.E84A622D@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s0prg+k5rl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3209 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Since we were talking about the 7 deadly sins as a framework for > > discussing HP, thought it would be interesting to discuss it in terms > > of Greek thoughts... > > Susan, I've been going mad trying to remember a term....the thing that > Voldemort has done, thinking that taking Harry's blood to reanimate would > make him invincible, when it will really be his downfall. Even if he knows > there's a chance of it leading to his defeat, he's too sure of his own power > to entertain the chance, and thus leads to his own downfall (or so I think > will happen). I've been thinking of it as hubris, overweening pride, but I > don't think it's the right term and I've forgotten all my Greek drama stuff. > > --Amanda Oh, goodness, I'll think more about the Greek tragic themes and see if I can get at what you're thinking of, perhaps it's the idea of the fatal flaw, the element that will encompass one's destruction. In the meantime, I think you have identified something important. There is a LOT of stuff about how Voldemort (final t silent)has transferred some of himself to Harry (Parseltongue). The stuff about the wands at the end of GoF -- how they are connected...both having Falkes' phoenix feathers in them (is that right?) Also in CoS, after Ginny confides in Tom, he is able to grow strong on her secret fears, and put some of himself into her, and control her. Voldemort is so sure that he must have Harry Potter's blood and no one else's. He will show everyone he can defeat Harry (and let's not underestimate that he bragged to his death eaters how he would personally finish Harry off and then he fails. He must be enraged at his failure ONCE AGAIN -- this IS his FOURTH (is that right) failed attempt to kill Harry....) By getting Harry's blood, he removes the protection that Lily left Harry. But, as Amanda has just suggested, perhaps he has sown the seeds of his own destruction by this fact -- maybe that accounts for the gleam of triumph in Dumbledore's eyes...... Hope this long run on makes some sense to someone... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 11 04:27:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:27:32 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <39E3D1B8.C3A48D80@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8s0q7k+7bgu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3210 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > > Although the point Steve makes in the Lexicon that there seems to be > > an awful lot of socks in the HP books really struck me. Not only > > Dobbys fascination with socks and the Dumbledore/Erised sock remark, > > but also Uncle Vernon gives Harry an old pair of his socks for one > > birthday; the pocket sneakoscope gets wrapped in socks. Doesnt Harry > > buy socks in Hogsmeade for Dobby? (or did I make that up?) What is > > it with the socks? > > > Maybe it's a thing about the British not having central heating and their feet always being cold. Also could be true (as was just suggested) that every one in a while Dumbledore gets tired of being the point person/great leader/greatest wizard in the world and longs for just a little bit of creature comfort. If I could knit, I'd probably go start a pair for him, but instead perhaps I'll send him some from L.L. Bean. I'll just send an owl, or a package addressed to Professor Dumbledore, Hogwarts, somewhere in England and see what happens. Susan From joym999 at aol.com Wed Oct 11 04:39:08 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:39:08 -0000 Subject: Reading: OT-ish In-Reply-To: <39E3DCBE.F5E84005@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8s0qtc+af3k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3211 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > I am totally addicted to > reading. My problem, as well. My boyfriend calls me a readaholic. Before we bought the nice big house where we now live, he was always complaining that the house was starting to look like one of those used book stores where you have to climb over boxes of books to get to the bathroom, and are constantly threatened by tall, teetering towers of tomes. I cant seem to get rid of books, even the fairly lousy ones. I imagine that in 5 years or so I will have filled our 4 floor, 10 room house with books. One of the high points of my year is the Goodwill Used Book Sale at the Washington Convention Center. A massive room filled with cheap used books - my idea of heaven! --Joywitch From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Wed Oct 11 04:51:28 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:51:28 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <39E3D1B8.C3A48D80@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8s0rkg+hsrr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3212 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > > Although the point Steve makes in the Lexicon that there seems to be > > an awful lot of socks in the HP books really struck me. Not only > > Dobbys fascination with socks and the Dumbledore/Erised sock remark, > > but also Uncle Vernon gives Harry an old pair of his socks for one > > birthday; the pocket sneakoscope gets wrapped in socks. Doesnt Harry > > buy socks in Hogsmeade for Dobby? (or did I make that up?) What is > > it with the socks? > > > > Maybe J.K. Rowling is a secret foot fetishist. REPLY: I believe it's JKR's engaging way of mentioning something innocuous along the way which later becomes a pivotal or fairly significant point. The simple starting point of Uncle Vernon's sock leads to Dobby's release at the end of Book 2. Dobby's an important character as well, being so critical in Task 2 of the Tournament. The house elves have special powers which probably will come in handy in future books. Who would have thought a mere sock would have subsequently directly and indirectly led on to the events that transpired later. If I may digress for a moment - something's been on my mind about Dobby - I was curious as to how Dobby managed to disappear when he visited Harry in the hospital wing, on the night Harry was having his bones regrown. Harry was holding on to him but when they heard voices approaching, Dobby had somehow vanished. Harry was left grasping his fist. We know that one can't apparate or disapparate in Hogwarts, so how did he do it ? Indeed, how could he even appear in Hogwarts and Privet Drive in Book 2, if he didn't have special abilities ? I suspect that they do possess extremely powerful magic but have been deliberatly supressed so as not to pose a threat, although it's in their nature to be servile. Any thoughts ? Anyway, back to socks. Dobby's continuing fascination with socks is completely understandable, since it was a crummy old sock that freed him. Symbol of his freedom from enslavement. What better gift for Harry to give Dobby than something he would treasure so dearly ? Dumbledore's reference to socks was shooing off Harry's curiousity. It's my belief that Dumbledore simply didn't want to answer the question, as Harry himself suspected. Shutting up the madly spinning sneakoscope - I suppose that was just being practical. Their robes are floaty affairs aren't they, so a nice thick woollen sock was just what was needed to wrap the noisy thing in. Gen From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Wed Oct 11 04:51:44 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 04:51:44 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <39E3D1B8.C3A48D80@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8s0rl0+qp68@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3213 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > > Although the point Steve makes in the Lexicon that there seems to be > > an awful lot of socks in the HP books really struck me. Not only > > Dobbys fascination with socks and the Dumbledore/Erised sock remark, > > but also Uncle Vernon gives Harry an old pair of his socks for one > > birthday; the pocket sneakoscope gets wrapped in socks. Doesnt Harry > > buy socks in Hogsmeade for Dobby? (or did I make that up?) What is > > it with the socks? > > > > Maybe J.K. Rowling is a secret foot fetishist. REPLY: I believe it's JKR's engaging way of mentioning something innocuous along the way which later becomes a pivotal or fairly significant point. The simple starting point of Uncle Vernon's sock leads to Dobby's release at the end of Book 2. Dobby's an important character as well, being so critical in Task 2 of the Tournament. The house elves have special powers which probably will come in handy in future books. Who would have thought a mere sock would have subsequently directly and indirectly led on to the events that transpired later. If I may digress for a moment - something's been on my mind about Dobby - I was curious as to how Dobby managed to disappear when he visited Harry in the hospital wing, on the night Harry was having his bones regrown. Harry was holding on to him but when they heard voices approaching, Dobby had somehow vanished. Harry was left grasping his fist. We know that one can't apparate or disapparate in Hogwarts, so how did he do it ? Indeed, how could he even appear in Hogwarts and Privet Drive in Book 2, if he didn't have special abilities ? I suspect that they do possess extremely powerful magic but have been deliberatly supressed so as not to pose a threat, although it's in their nature to be servile. Any thoughts ? Anyway, back to socks. Dobby's continuing fascination with socks is completely understandable, since it was a crummy old sock that freed him. Symbol of his freedom from enslavement. What better gift for Harry to give Dobby than something he would treasure so dearly ? Dumbledore's reference to socks was shooing off Harry's curiousity. It's my belief that Dumbledore simply didn't want to answer the question, as Harry himself suspected. Shutting up the madly spinning sneakoscope - I suppose that was just being practical. Their robes are floaty affairs aren't they, so a nice thick woollen sock was just what was needed to wrap the noisy thing in. Gen From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 11 05:02:28 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 05:02:28 -0000 Subject: Snape: Was fatal flaw In-Reply-To: <8rve1o+k0dm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s0s94+td71@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3214 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > I think Snape is clearer-eyed that we are allowed to see. I see a bit of the > > attitude of Edmund from one of the Chronicles of Narnia books (Prince > > Caspian, I think; the second one). Where he's been woken by his sister Lucy > > and told something unbelievable and his reaction is stated along the lines > > of "while he fully intended to back Lucy up, he was annoyed at losing his > > night's sleep and intended to do everything as sulkily as possible." I think > > Snape has every intent of supporting the good, for whatever reason. But he > > does it in the snarliest manner possible, and carries way too much emotional > > baggage around. > > > > --Amanda > Right on, Amanda. I think Snape's rage at the end of PoA over > Sirius's escape is partly feigned. I think he is laying it on thick for > Fudge's benefit, knowing it will get back to Malfoy, Sr. It has always > struck me that Snape had the opportunity to turn Sirius over to the > Dementors when he (Snape) recovered consciousness, but chose to bring > him to the castle with Harry and the others. Nope, I disagree here. Snape's character is characterized by fury and rage. I think his rage at Sirius was genuine. He believed that Lupin was sneaking Sirius into the castle. He clearly believed that Sirius betrayed James and Lily Potter. It's clear to me (great thread this is) that as Snape's personal story unfolds, we will know more and more about what happened when Voldemort rose to power. His anger is his fatal flaw (and his envy!) He is ready to give Sirius to the dementors for the "kiss", and is willing to turn Lupin over to them without a trial. Whoever said he was rescued from his own actions (unlike the Greek tragedians who allow their characters to destruct)was right on the money. He was terribly envious of the Marauders, of their camaraderie and brotherhood (he spies on them to try to get them thrown out of school) He's probably insecure because of his personal appearance and his personality doesn't help him make friends. (Wonder what his home life was like?)We're told he envied James his Quidditch success. Although he is trying to save Harry in SS/PS, he is incredibly vicious to him about the truth serum stuff in GoF. I DON'T think he knew the identity of the Marauders when the map started writing to him. Clearly some of the Death Eaters knew each other, but Karkaroff and Snape knew that the other was a Death Eater because they were both tried as Death Eaters. Most dictators/evil leaders use divide and conquer among their followers. (OTOH, all of the Death Eaters are named in GoF) I DO think that Dumbledore briefed Snape about Sirius in between the end of PoA and the end of GoF. I see them both as enlisted in a battle to the death against Voldemort and go to the place "the enemies of my enemy (Voldemort) are my allies". I do see Snape as doing the right thing in the most surly manner possible. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 11 05:09:55 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 05:09:55 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <39E39241.3A3F0BA7@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s0sn3+i09i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3215 > > and the same time Voldemort's other follower, Lucious Malfoy, is trying > > to rid Hogwarts of Dumbledore? Is Hagrid more important than we have > > previously thought? > > Malfoy wants anyone and everyone who disagrees with him and his pureblood > theories out of Hogwarts. > Now that we know that Malfoy is in truth a Death Eater, we know that he wants Dumbledore out of Hogwarts, so that Hogwarts will no longer be a safe refuge against Voldemort From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 11 05:15:06 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 05:15:06 -0000 Subject: Chapter 13 Mad eye moody In-Reply-To: <002901c032ea$3d414e40$0200a8c0@jonnyold> Message-ID: <8s0t0q+ek5m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3216 > > I loved this part of the book! It was so hilarious! I cried with mirth and still do! Mad eye obviously knew something about Malfoy's intense dislike for Harry or was it because he simply tried to attack harry when he had his back turned? > > Actually, Barty Crouch, Jr/masquerading as Moody really DOES hate Lucius Malfoy and his son because Lucius was a death eater who walked free, who cavorted at the Quidditch match with the other DEs, but fled when confronted by the Dark Mark. But also, how else to prove that he's the REAL Moody than to take Harry's part against Draco so vociferously... From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Oct 11 05:56:35 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:56:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001011055635.00a1ddd0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3217 Regarding socks: Susan said: "Maybe it's a thing about the British not having central heating and their feet always being cold." At this precise moment - nearing 7.00am, in my freezing cold London residence - warm socks are very much on my mind (not to mention my feet). We British do have central heating, but we forget to have the boiler serviced before the cold weather sets in. Lots of interesting theories on this socks-in-the-mirror thing. One of my thoughts is that Dumbledore was making a point about humility and the simple pleasures in life. Perhaps that represents his own greatest desire, but maybe he was trying to illustrate to Harry that he shouldn't long for something unreachable and should seek comfort closer to home; in other words, that he shouldn't wish for the family he can't have, but should enjoy the family he can have. In a sense, Ron and Hermione are Harry's socks. Another thing about socks is that they are a pair of something. If we want to get into symbolism, perhaps the socks represent the coming together of a pair and Dumbledore's desire not end up as a single sock, rolling its way round the tumble-dryer of life. I also agree that JKR may be a bit of a foot/sock fetishist, but I doubt that she'd ever reveal such a thing in an interview. If Book Seven is called "Harry Potter and the Kneesocks of Fear" we'll know for sure. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From brooksar at indy.net Wed Oct 11 06:59:39 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:59:39 -0500 Subject: commercialization of HP; Giants; B&N, Myers-Briggs;Snape&anonymous DE's; References: <971211976.11555@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39E40FDE.24FE87E3@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3218 > And on the wbstore.com website, there are now holiday ornaments (they're > Christmas ornaments, durnit - no other holiday *has* ornaments!), (says Heidi) Actually, i was rather shocked when I moved to Indiana and found some people decorated trees outdoors with egg-shaped ornaments for Easter.... and truly Halloween has lots of ornaments, not just decorations too, these days, just not normally ones that go on trees - although i have seen trees decorated with plastic jack-o-lanterns here too. Does anybody have a horrible feeling about the giants - not that Hagrid will be too late, but that he will be in time.... and when Voldemort discovers it..... well, does anybody remember the Saltmarsh Giants from the first Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeleiver? I checked out the posters at Barnes & Noble tonight; there were none I actually felt like buying - I liked the Erised scene on the poster box, which was NOT there as a poster, better than any of the posters, but I *did* think the potions class poster gave a pretty good impression of Snape. I also noted that the teacher's guide for GoF is now out too. Somebody mentioned starting a thread about Myers-Briggs types vs. House - that was actually one of the techniques mentioned back on Yahoo days, and MBTI-based questions are used at Ravenclawlady's site. Back to Snape and who knew what really about Wormtail and Sirius, remember that when Voldy goes around the circle at the end of GoF, there are some standing DE's he does NOT name? Anybody want to put guesses in on whether any of the unrevealed will turn out to be someone we know? And remember that when we meet new people in the remaining books - I personally think the candy-cart witch on the Express will turn out to be a Death-Eater..... (yes, I am joking here). > Plus wasn't Fudge in on the conversation in the 3 > broomsticks where its related that Sirius was thought to be the > secret-keeper...Fudge never does anything but agree with that whole > line of conversation. Fudge in fact is the instigator, telling Rosmerta that "the worst he did isn't widely known". By the way, if I can ever get back to my Dumbledore vs Grindelwald story, i hope to explain what happened to Tom R after he graduated and how Dumbledore knows Tom is Voldy..... I haven't yet got around to doing the astronomy program results for the full moon dates for PoA. -Brooks From catlady at wicca.net Wed Oct 11 07:16:14 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:16:14 -0700 Subject: Lots of Topics Message-ID: <39E413BD.CDD573F6@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3219 I oopsed when I said Roz and Terry were ENFJ, I meant ENFP -- the being late to *every* meeting and starting *every* writing assignment ON the deadline were part of the portrait! I'm INXJ and a Ravenclaw. Having noticed that Bane is an ill-connoted name, I was distressed to see that he was the black-furred AND black-skinned centaur. I think the way that Muggle parents can send mail to their children at Hogwarts is put the mail into an envelope addressed to a certain "suite number" upstairs above the record shop next to the Leaky Cauldron and send it by Muggle mail. Tom from the Leaky Cauldron picks up the mail from that box, removes the Muggle envelopes, and takes it all to the Owl Post Office on Diagon Alley. Maybe the senders also enclose some Muggle money to be converted to wizarding money and used to pay the owl postage. I think that Snape did not know who were Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs: after all, the boys wanted to keep their Animagery and especially lycanthropy *secret* and publicly using nicknames based on their animal forms would seem like a good way to let the secret out. I think that Snape *suspected* Lupin and his old friends of being involved with the Map because some of the insults that it wrote to Snape were exactly the same as some of the insults that the boys had regularly addressed to Severus over seven years, and therefore he was trying to trick Lupin into confessing. I think the scene in the graveyard shows that a couple of dozen Death Eaters had each his (it seems like Mrs. Lestrange was the only female... except Nagini) own appointed place in the Circle. Voldemort strolled around the Circle addressing quite a number of them by name. I think Karkaroff may have been lying about Death Eaters concealing their identities from each other, when I think really he had not bothered to learn the names of most of the ones who didn't stand near him in the Circle or work with him, and he had forgotten many of the names he had once known due to Dementor influence. If Snape or whoever was Dumbledore's spy among the Death Eaters wasn't kept informed of Their Side's plans, he/she couldn't have warned Dumbledore that Their Side planned to kill the Potters. I think V and the DEs were in it as much for the drama as for power, wealth, and physical immortality, and they served as audience for each other's dramas. Being in it for the drama would explain why V so thoroughly doesn't follow the Rules for Evil Overlords. So why did it never occur to ME that Severus must have seen Peter and not Sirius in the Death Eater circle? Maybe he quit the Death Eaters (and hid out in the safety of Hogwarts) after alerting Our Side to the plan to kill the Potters but before the Potters dealt with that news by use of Fidelius Charm, so he really didn't know who was the Secret Keeper. In that case, when it comes to Snape resuming double-agenting, his cover had already been blown long before Voldemort was on the back of Quirrel's head. The one I can't figure out is why Snape tried to prevent desperate Harry from going to Dumbledore's office in GoF. By fourth year, Snape should have noticed by now that when Harry says he *has* to tell Dumbledore something, he really *does* have to tell Dumbledore something really important. So if Snape really is on Dumbledore's side, why would he let Dumbledore be deprived of important information just because of his (Snape's) his desire to frustrate Harry? Meanwhile, just how bad were things "when Voldemort was in power"? We hear that during the 11 years before That Halloween, Voldemort killed so many families that everyone was scared all the time, they couldn't even bear to say his name, no one trusted even their best friends because "anyone" (not just Slytherins) could have gone over to the Dark Side, or been put under the Imperius Curse by the Dark Side --- but the Quidditch World Cup still went on, people still had jobs and got married and sent their kids to school, the Marauders cared about their mischief making, and sneaking out of school to have fun, not about protecting their families from being attacked by the Dark Side.... Eggplant has Harry dying on his 19th birthday because, after Harry finishes school, he still has to wait one year for Ginny to finish school so she can marry him and get pregnant before he dies. If Harry married a girl his own age or older, they could get married as soon as Harry finished school, and carry out the rest of the plot events in time to die on his 18th birthday. Eggplant, have you ever considered fixing Harry up with Cho instead of with Ginny? -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 11 07:34:28 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:34:28 +0100 Subject: Nick, chess, Riddle Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3220 Nick wrote: "I'm back from being on NoMail for the past few months. Winter is coming, so much quieter at work, so with luck might be able to have time to read messages!" Welcome back - I look forward to seeing you in some of the chats. Dave wrote: "Yes, I know what you mean... So when's the Harry Potter chess set coming out? :) :) Seriously, I think this is a good idea... I've even worked out a "lineup" (Students vs. Faculty):" Ron should be a knight - it is his preferred position (PS chapter 16). Also Sirius should be a bishop (dog collar) . Jinx wrote: "WRONG - Voldamore, Voldamort, Voldemore" Not to mention: Voldermore, Voldermort and many, many others. This has really hampered my FAQ writing efforts! Storm wrote: "Tom riddle *Snr* was killed, Tom Riddle Jnr dissappeared, later to become Voldemort. As to Simons's questoin as to why ppl didn't look for him - maybe he had never made the kind of friends at school who would look out for him (or they knew where he was going). He certainly didn't have any family. Once he had turned down the (inevitable) position at the MoM they probably didn;t care either" So one of the best Hogwarts students goes missing and the wizard world goes: So what? I find that so unbelievable. Simon From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 11 07:38:51 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:38:51 +0100 Subject: Harry getting married Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3221 Rita wrote: "Eggplant has Harry dying on his 19th birthday because, after Harry finishes school, he still has to wait one year for Ginny to finish school so she can marry him and get pregnant before he dies. If Harry married a girl his own age or older, they could get married as soon as Harry finished school, and carry out the rest of the plot events in time to die on his 18th birthday. Eggplant, have you ever considered fixing Harry up with Cho instead of with Ginny?" They could get married while both were still at Hogwarts. Harry get Ginny pregnant when she is 16 and then marries her (does the honourable thing). I do not really buy this idea. I see no way JKR could get away with killing Harry - even at the end of the seventh book. Simon From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 09:10:22 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:10:22 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: reactions to Dementors Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3222 ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Jinx" Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: reactions to Dementors Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 21:15:02 +0100 > It would be interesting to see what Ginny's boggart would be. Perhaps > it would be Voldemort (as Tom Riddle) or the Chamber of Secrets??? I > have a hard time believing that her brothers are particularly mean to > her. In PS/SS, Fred, George and Ron tell her not to cry and that they > will send her owls. Ron doesn't seem to torment her that much either. > In fact, her brothers are rather protective of her as witnessed in > GoF > when Fred and George grab her hand and run with her into the woods. On the other hand, in CoS they try and cheer up Ginny after the first attacks by leaping out at her with masks on, so they're not exactly angels. Jinx they *are* adolesant boys with (I think) a limited understanding of what might cheer ppl up - I bet they think its great storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 11 10:32:04 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:32:04 -0000 Subject: merchandise Message-ID: <8s1fj4+tcu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3223 Hi everyone-- Can someone help me out? On one of the lists, a while back, someone posted a link to someplace either selling or just showing HP merchandise. I've threaded through all my lists, archives and all, and can't find it. I'm specifically looking for a pic of the 'train bookends'. Are those the ones you have, Penny? I went to the WB online store, and didn't see any bookends at all, btw why are the coffee mugs 15 oz.? Too big! Anyway, if anyone knows where I can see a pic of those bookends, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Kelley From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Wed Oct 11 11:35:10 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:35:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks References: <1.5.4.32.20001011055635.00a1ddd0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39E4506E.7174A450@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3224 Neil Ward wrote: > Regarding socks: > > Another thing about socks is that they are a pair of something. If we want > to get into symbolism, perhaps the socks represent the coming together of a > pair and Dumbledore's desire not end up as a single sock, rolling its way > round the tumble-dryer of life. > > I also agree that JKR may be a bit of a foot/sock fetishist, but I doubt > that she'd ever reveal such a thing in an interview. If Book Seven is > called "Harry Potter and the Kneesocks of Fear" we'll know for sure. It's 6:30 a.m. here in the states and thank you for the laugh. I love this group. What a great way to wake up in the morning. Peg From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 11:58:04 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:58:04 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re:goof on adminstrative stuff References: <8s0prg+k5rl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E455CC.6E3CAD5F@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3225 Someone just let me know that when I wrote "Chapters 16 & 17 (Trina & Scott) will not change." I make a goof. Trina and Scott are down to do chapters 14 and 15. Chapters 14 & 15 will not change but whoever has 16 & 17 has to confirm. From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Wed Oct 11 13:03:21 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:03:21 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8rvm59+fb1j@eGroups.com> <39E38CCB.D9AB0B52@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3226 On 10.10.2000 at 16:40:27 Amanda Lewanski wrote: >I think Snape was acting honestly under the information he had, >although he >was a bit zealous and did let the schoolboy grudge get in the way >(which >kind of reinforces what I think, that there was more involved than >just a >schoolboy grudge and even Lupin might not have known details which >Sirius >did). Nobody of Snape's personality could bear to be around anyone >who knows >they have been (in their opinion) humiliated, and if Lily turned >Snape down, >Snape would know she told James, which would mean Sirius would know, >which >would enrage Snape. I still believe that Snape's possible infatuation with Lily was only a contributing cause and that the real issue was between James Potter, the Golden Boy who could do whatever he wanted and came away even more popular, and Snape who wanted to be like that but just wasn't the type no matter how hard he tried. They started out as rivaling schoolboys, then the 'Sirius incident' happened and presumably James was applauded for saving Snape and Sirius was not adequately punished in Snape's eyes because the affair had to be hushed up for Lupin's sake. After school they found themselves on opposing sides again, and Snape had to realize that he was the one who had picked the wrong side. >I also think Snape was more than a little exasperated that he had >managed to >save these three little snits and nobody says so much as thank you, >they all >yell at him and want him to *listen* to this convicted murderer. >Another >reason for vehemence. I was impressed that when Snape told his story to the authorities (i. e. Fudge) he didn't claim to have rescued Harry and Hermione from the Dementors. It would have been easy enough since there were no witnesses and the kids were confused and probably wouldn't have been believed anyway. IMO that shows that Snape, nasty as he may be, follows a code of honor and only wanted credit for what he thought he deserved, namely catching the dangerous Sirius Black. Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Wed Oct 11 13:03:21 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:03:21 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study References: <8s0k9b+pnkr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3227 On 11.10.2000 at 02:46:03 Carole Estes wrote: >Most of those mentioned were prominent members of the wizarding >community, large charitable contributions were mentioned...I think >he's naive and he can not believe that someone who is "important" >could also be evil... I don't believe him to be naive. He knows what side Malfoy is on, but prefers to close his eyes to the facts. As long as he isn't sure that the good guys will come out on top he will avoid making an enemy out of somebody so potentially powerful. Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Oct 11 12:49:17 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Oct 2000 05:49:17 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] commercialization of HP Message-ID: <20001011124917.7515.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3228 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 01:30:53 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 01:30:53 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3229 ----Original Message Follows---- From: eliasberg at ioc.net Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:11:53 -0000 There is something bothering me.... Snape was a Death Eater he showed us at the end of GoF and we know when the dark mark burned on the arm we know they all congrigated around Voldie. So Snape knew Wormtail was the traitor not Sirius, he knows Sirius was an enemy of Voldies and next to die after the Potters (he says that in PoA that Voldie would come after him, but Snape would know because this would have been discussed in the inner cicle meetings to plan the killings). Snape knows who all the inner circle is and has all along, so the only reason to treat Sirius badly isn't because he is Voldies right hand man, just a boyhood grudge, just my opinion though I may be wrong. Dave Dave _ I reckon that Snape was well out of it by the time the potters were killed. Storm (I'm still pushing my snape/dumbledore theory but I may have to go fanfic) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Oct 11 12:56:10 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Oct 2000 05:56:10 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: commercialization of HP Message-ID: <20001011125610.7617.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3230 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Oct 11 13:04:47 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Oct 2000 06:04:47 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Clippings From The Daily Profit Message-ID: <20001011130447.7839.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3231 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Oct 11 13:32:06 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Oct 2000 06:32:06 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading Message-ID: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3232 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Oct 11 13:44:26 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Oct 2000 06:44:26 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: socks Message-ID: <20001011134426.8526.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3233 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 11 15:32:55 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:32:55 -0000 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s2177+20pr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3234 Storm (I'm still pushing my snape/dumbledore theory but I may have > to go fanfic) You'll have to explain why it's Snape and *Filch* we keep catching in innocent-but-suggestive situations: with Snape's robes hiked up in SS chapter 11, in their nightclothes in GOF chapter 25. Moody/Crouch thinks they're up to something, doesn't he. Pajama party? I can just see them up in Filch's office after hours with the chains and the polyjuice and...well I think I'd better stop now.(evil grin) Pippin From dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt Wed Oct 11 15:32:46 2000 From: dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt (dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:32:46 -0000 Subject: Just a hello msg Message-ID: <8s216u+mekf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3235 I'm sorry I'm not speaking about HP, I just wanted to say hi to everybody, I've just signed in. And of course, I love HP, I can't wait for the 5th book. See ya, XXX Diogo From nlpnt at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 15:30:30 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:30:30 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001011055635.00a1ddd0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8s212m+r7sn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3236 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > Regarding socks: > > Susan said: "Maybe it's a thing about the British not having central heating > and their feet always being cold." If Book Seven is > called "Harry Potter and the Kneesocks of Fear" we'll know for sure. > > Neil > My 2 knuts; Thanks to movie stills we know know that Hogwarts students wear what to my American eyes look like regular English school uniforms under their robes. Dumbledore was indeed shooing off Harry's curiosity. Therefore, he ALMOST exhorted Harry to "pull your socks up, boy!", but realized at the last moment that Hogwarts' boys haven't been requited to wear shorts/ knee socks for decades (can't you just see Dumble forgetting about something like that, especially if he changed the policy himself?). Dumbledore being such a powerful wizard, his words have a magic of their own, and "socks" just -escaped- knowing it'd be important later. From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 11 15:56:53 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:56:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] al gore/harry potter buttons - last call References: <39E3B2F0.FD42011@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39E48DC5.60A88A9C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3237 heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu wrote: > The buttons have arrived! I am placing a jpg of the file in one of the > group folders over at egroups for anyone who wants to see it. They say > Put Wizardry Back In The White House & have a photo of Al & a pic of > harry from the front of the US GOF. Not to be a stick-in-the-mud, but has JKR approved the use of the name Harry Potter and/or the picture for this? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 11 16:00:25 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:00:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Clippings From The Daily Profit References: <8rt3jn+tfib@eGroups.com> <39E22993.E0E92674@swbell.net> <01b801c032fd$95d8c520$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> <04a101c03321$e67f1780$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39E48E99.4107D5DB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3238 Caius Marcius wrote: > So the final t in Voldemort is silent? ( "T" Who Must Not Be Named?) I'd guess it depends on if you're trying to sound French or not. The French pronunciation sure lends itself to sneering, don't it? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 11 16:02:28 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:02:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Weathermen? References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> <009f01c030dd$83d42d00$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39E0D3B2.81D338BB@texas.net> <068901c03328$eb2a4be0$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39E48F14.E09BED7B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3239 Caius Marcius wrote: > >Seems like we get taught selective history, and not just in history classes > > That's why we must make Hermione our role model, and visit the library at > regular intervals. Okay, *you* come sit my kids..... ---Amanda (read? what's "read"?) From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Oct 11 16:07:50 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:07:50 +0200 Subject: [OT] No, Harry, *I* am your father... References: <8rreot+ulc4@eGroups.com> <01b201c032fd$8de3b8c0$b38e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <002601c0339d$67e02a00$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3240 > > Just so she doesn't turn out to be his sister, hidden away at birth > > like her brother Luke to protect her from the evil Lord Vader. Oh, > > sorry, wrong mythology... > > With that hair? Not likely. :) Well, maybe James had brown eyes, and so Harry got his father's hair and his mother's eyes, and Ginny got her father's eyes and her mother's hair...It says in CoS, Chapter 3, that Ginny has brown eyes. Of course, this would mean that the Potters somehow managed to keep her a secret from everyone except close friends up until their deaths, because otherwise the entire wizard community would be wondering what happened to the Potters' other child, and *someone* would have been bound to mention it to Harry...maybe James and Lily went into hiding in the earliest stages of Lily's second pregnancy, when no one knew yet, and Ginny was just a few months old when Voldemort attacked, and... No, I don't believe this in the slightest, I'm just kidding around ^_~. ~Firebolt From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 11 16:20:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:20:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a hello msg References: <8s216u+mekf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E49348.485618D2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3241 Greeting, Diogo. Get ready to be sucked into all kinds of discussions. So *many* times I sit down to the computer swearing to myself I'll just sit here for a minute....yeah, right. --Amanda dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt wrote: > I'm sorry I'm not speaking about HP, I just wanted to say hi to > everybody, I've just signed in. And of course, I love HP, I can't wait > for the 5th book. See ya, > > XXX Diogo > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 11 16:14:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:14:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: commercialization of HP; Giants; B&N, Myers-Briggs;Snape&anonymous DE's; References: <971211976.11555@egroups.com> <39E40FDE.24FE87E3@indy.net> Message-ID: <39E491CD.6FBEA2C9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3242 "Brooks A. Rowlett" wrote: > By the way, if I can ever get back to my Dumbledore vs Grindelwald > story, i hope to explain what happened to Tom R after he graduated and > how Dumbledore knows Tom is Voldy..... Dumbledore was an instructor when Tom Riddle Jr. was at school. How he found out the Voldemort connection might be as simple as some student, a disenchanted former friend of Riddle's, telling him, "..and you won't *believe* what he wants us to *call* him...." --Amanda From lmrourke at snet.net Wed Oct 11 17:15:10 2000 From: lmrourke at snet.net (Lisa Rourke) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:15:10 -0400 Subject: Some observations and inquiries Message-ID: <003301c033a6$df944dc0$d51e3ccc@krass> No: HPFGUIDX 3243 Hi. I've just been catching up on the last few days of posts and I wanted to comment on one in particular and then just throw out some observations and inquiries on other HP topics that have been on my mind. First, on the subject of Cornelius Fudge- I don't think anyone mentioned the fact that it was he who gave Sirius the paper with the article on the Weasleys in it containing the picture of Wormtail (setting into motion the events that lead Wormtail back to Voldemort). I didn't think about this until I came to the end of GoF when Fudge refused to believe Harry's account of what happened and dismissed Dumbledore's advice. I suspect that he has some connection to Voldemort but I don't think he is a DE. I think it is more likely that he is being controlled. An aside comment to Amanda: I remember Harry Nilsson's The Point :-) My sister had the album. On to the observation...with Halloween approaching, I was thinking about that date and the fact that it was the day that Harry's parents were killed by Voldemort. I'm sure somebody has probably noted this but things always seem to happen at Hogwarts on this date also. In PS/SS the mountain troll attacks Hermione on Halloween. In CoS the Chamber is opened and Harry hears the basilisk in the pipes in the wall on Halloween. In PoA Sirius Black slashes the portrait of the Fat Lady and in GoF Harry is named the Fourth Champion after his name is spit out of the Goblet of Fire. Interesting. One other thing that has been nagging at me has to do with being a Secret Keeper. I know we don't know how this works yet and that we'll hopefully get more info in later books but if Voldemort can not find Harry's parents unless the Secret Keeper tells him, then how can Sirius know where to find them? He says in PoA (American) chapter 19 pg. 365 after checking Peter's hiding place and finding him gone...."I set out for your parents' house straight away. And when I saw their house, destroyed, and their bodies...." Can it be that Secret Keeping only blocks out those with evil intentions or that once the Secret was told everyone would know? I don't have a good anwer for this. Any theories? The other thing that I have been contemplating has to do with the day Harry's parents died and who was actually there. There was some discussion a while back as to whether someone other that Voldemort, James, Lily and Harry was there. It also addressed the issue of Lily possibly being Slytherin and/or Voldemort's daughter because of what Harry heard him say to her when the Dementors came to near to him. That made me reread the chapter in PoA where Professor Lupin is trying to teach Harry how to produce a patronus. Chapter 12 pg. 240-241 What stuck in my mind was the part ....."...then came a new voice, a man's voice, shouting, panicking-"Lily, take Harry and go! It's Him! Go! Run! I'll hold him off-". And Harry says "I heard my dad" "That's the first time I've ever heard him-" I always took that at face value. Harry heard his father. But how does he know the voice he heard really belong to his father? We know the female voice is that of his mother, she's even referred to by name. But Harry assumes the man's voice is his father's because he knows that they were together when they died. I think it would be just like JKR to make us believe this by having Harry state it as fact. I suppose one could argue that he actually saw his father and heard him speak in GoF when he came out of the wand but under the circumstances I don't he had time to compare the voices he heard. I just thought this would make an interesting twist and lend credence to the theory that maybe somebody else was there trying to protect them or warn them. Well....just some food for thought. I'm interested in what you all think :-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Wed Oct 11 17:33:15 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:33:15 -0000 Subject: Lots of Topics In-Reply-To: <39E413BD.CDD573F6@wicca.net> Message-ID: <8s288r+di8p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3244 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > Meanwhile, just how bad were things "when Voldemort was in power"? We > hear that during the 11 years before That Halloween, Voldemort killed so > many families that everyone was scared all the time, they couldn't even > bear to say his name, no one trusted even their best friends because > "anyone" (not just Slytherins) could have gone over to the Dark Side, or > been put under the Imperius Curse by the Dark Side --- but the Quidditch > World Cup still went on, people still had jobs and got married and sent > their kids to school, the Marauders cared about their mischief making, > and sneaking out of school to have fun, not about protecting their > families from being attacked by the Dark Side.... > I think Rita has hit upon something important here that we havent discussed (imagine that! an aspect of HP that we havent picked to death yet!). Why IS everyone so scared of Voldy? All we know is that he killed a bunch of people. While that is pretty bad, is a wizard serial killer bad enough to put a whole society in such a fright? Maybe it is, because I would guess that wizards are pretty hard to kill. But it is interesting that JKR has done such a good job of convincing us that Voldy is EVIL and HORRIFYING without even really telling us that much about why. Reminds me of Darth Vader - all he had to do was stroll on camera in the 1st Star Wars movie, all shiny-black-masked and tall, and snap that guys neck and we were all hiding under our beds. I was anyway. And, speaking of wizards being hard to kill, I was re-reading the end of PoA last night. When Harry is contemplating killing Sirius Black (when Crookshanks jumps on Blacks chest)...what exactly is it that Harry was thinking that he was going to DO? How does a 13 year old wizard know how to kill someone? Obviously he didnt know how to do Avada Kedavra. Was he going to turn Black into a pincushion? Charm the axe in the corner to hack him to death? (yech) --Joywitch From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 17:38:05 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:38:05 -0000 Subject: merchandise In-Reply-To: <8s1fj4+tcu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s28ht+s0r8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3245 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > btw why are the > coffee mugs 15 oz.? Too big! Too big?! What's the use of a coffee/tea mug that's any smaller? Don't forget, every dime you spend on merchandise helps WB pay the production costs for the HP movie! (minus JKR's cut, and Bloomsbury and probably Scholastic. And Hallmark, if you've bought the ornaments.) ht From joym999 at aol.com Wed Oct 11 17:45:37 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:45:37 -0000 Subject: Some observations and inquiries In-Reply-To: <003301c033a6$df944dc0$d51e3ccc@krass> Message-ID: <8s2901+h683@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3246 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Lisa Rourke" wrote: > On to the observation...with Halloween approaching, I was thinking about > that date and the fact that it was the day that Harry's parents were killed > by Voldemort. I'm sure somebody has probably noted this but things always > seem to happen at Hogwarts on this date also. In PS/SS the mountain troll > attacks Hermione on Halloween. In CoS the Chamber is opened and Harry hears > the basilisk in the pipes in the wall on Halloween. In PoA Sirius Black > slashes the portrait of the Fat Lady and in GoF Harry is named the Fourth > Champion after his name is spit out of the Goblet of Fire. Interesting. > Very perceptive, Lisa. I dont think anyone else caught that one. the chapter > in PoA where Professor Lupin is trying to teach Harry how to produce a > patronus. Chapter 12 pg. 240-241 What stuck in my mind was the part > ....."...then came a new voice, a man's voice, shouting, panicking-"Lily, > take Harry and go! It's Him! Go! Run! I'll hold him off-". And Harry > says "I heard my dad" "That's the first time I've ever heard him-" I > always took that at face value. Harry heard his father. But how does he > know the voice he heard really belong to his father? We know the female > voice is that of his mother, she's even referred to by name. But Harry > assumes the man's voice is his father's because he knows that they were > together when they died. I think it would be just like JKR to make us > believe this by having Harry state it as fact. I suppose one could argue > that he actually saw his father and heard him speak in GoF when he came out > of the wand but under the circumstances I don't he had time to compare the > voices he heard. I just thought this would make an interesting twist and > lend credence to the theory that maybe somebody else was there trying to > protect them or warn them. > This might also help explain the whole why-did-James-and-Lily-come- out-of-the-wand-in-the-wrong-order problem, although Im not sure how. Anyone want to take a stab? --Joywitch From monika at darwin.inka.de Wed Oct 11 17:45:16 2000 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:45:16 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8s0k9b+pnkr@eGroups.com> References: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> <8s0k9b+pnkr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3247 On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:46:03 -0000, Carole Estes, lrcjestes at msn.com wrote: >I've never thought for a moment that Fudge knew the truth about >Sirius. He had had to inform the muggle authorities that Sirius was >on the loose and a dangerous criminal. If he'd known the truth about >Sirius why would he have gone through that charade. In fact Fudge >still doesn't know the truth about Sirius, otherwise why would Sirius >still be in hiding..I assume the minister of magic would have some >power to pardon...Plus wasn't Fudge in on the conversation in the 3 >broomsticks where its related that Sirius was thought to be the >secret-keeper... If I remember well, it was Fudge himself who told the others that Sirius was the Potter's Secret-Keeper, a fact that wasn't widely known. It seems that everybody else thought that Sirius was in Azkaban for the murder of Peter Pettigrew and the twelve muggles. I don't think that Fudge ever doubted about Sirius' guilt, this is why he didn't even consider sending him back to Azkaban when he was captured after the events in the Shrieking Shack but went straight to fetch a dementor to get rid of this problem once and for all time. Getting people out of the way seems to be his favorite solution for all his immediate problems, so I wasn't really surprised to learn that Barty Jr. had been administered the kiss at the end of GoF. Fudge is one of those who want to cure all ailments by getting rid of the symptoms but who stubbornly refuse to look for the real causes. All he is interested in is to make himself look good and show that the ministry is up to deal with Voldemort and the Death Eaters. But this won't work any longer now. >Most of those mentioned were prominent members of the wizarding >community, large charitable contributions were mentioned...I think >he's naive and he can not believe that someone who is "important" >could also be evil... I think he does not *want* to see it, I cannot believe he is that naive. >He's an ostrich...and I think its right in character for him he's the >quintesential politician without an ounce of the ability to see the >truth when its staring you in the face if it might upset the boat. Exactly what I wanted to say, thanks. :) Greetings Monika -- Books and Movies http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 18:02:12 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:02:12 -0000 Subject: Lots of Topics In-Reply-To: <8s288r+di8p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s29v4+3s4o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3248 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > I think Rita has hit upon something important here that we havent > discussed (imagine that! an aspect of HP that we havent picked to > death yet!). Why IS everyone so scared of Voldy? All we know is > that he killed a bunch of people. While that is pretty bad, is a > wizard serial killer bad enough to put a whole society in such a > fright? Voldy's not just a wizard serial killer. It's more like living in Berlin in the late 1930s, waiting for the Nazis to kick in the door. Gosh, you think that's what she intended? ;-) And even if he is just a serial killer, that's enough to put a society on edge. Think New York during the Son of Sam murders, or Atlanta during the 2 years Wayne Williams was killing African- American boys. ht From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 18:12:19 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:12:19 -0000 Subject: al gore/harry potter buttons - last call In-Reply-To: <39E48DC5.60A88A9C@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s2ai3+2glq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3249 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > heidi.h.tandy.c92 at a... wrote: > > > The buttons have arrived! I am placing a jpg of the file in one of the > > group folders over at egroups for anyone who wants to see it. They say > > Put Wizardry Back In The White House & have a photo of Al & a pic of > > harry from the front of the US GOF. > > Not to be a stick-in-the-mud, but has JKR approved the use of the name Harry > Potter and/or the picture for this? I wrote a really long response to this explaining how, as a matter of copyright & trademark law, especially under the recent Ralph Nader v. Mastercard decision in the US, this is a parody and thus protected by first amendment law, but my computer seems to have refused to send it properly, and I don't want to write the whole thing again and I am sure most of you would've found it boring, so I'll just say that since it's protected by parody, no permission was needed. Whew. long sentence. And if this is the summary, you can guess how long the original post was! From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 11 18:18:52 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:18:52 -0000 Subject: merchandise In-Reply-To: <8s28ht+s0r8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s2auc+f5qd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3250 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ht " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > btw why are the > > coffee mugs 15 oz.? Too big! > > Too big?! What's the use of a coffee/tea mug that's any smaller? > > > Don't forget, every dime you spend on merchandise helps WB pay the > production costs for the HP movie! (minus JKR's cut, and Bloomsbury > and probably Scholastic. And Hallmark, if you've bought the > ornaments.) > > ht I think Barnes and Nobles on line has the bookends. Another place is thelatestcraze.com where I bought the Harry Potter Coloring Fun book for $6.95 (Scholastic's price is $5.95 but they will only sell it through their school subscription program). The coloring book is a "deal" because I've seen it auctioned on EBay and Yahoo for up to $12. 00. I can't remember who, but someone said the other products on that site were over-priced. :-) Milz From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 19:27:43 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:27:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Some observations and inquiries References: <8s2901+h683@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001f01c033b9$58be3280$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3251 Ok, taking a stab.... Lily, and "Friend" were sitting home, handing out candy to the tricker treaters (Do you do that in England?), when two rather large kids knock and one announces in a low-toned voice, "Trick. No treat." The friend has door duty, and when he sees Voldie in costume (?), he yells out to Lily "It's Him...off." At this Lily runs off, towards where the owl is, and sends the owl off with a message for James. James comes immediately home, apparating, btw, when he gets the message, but of course owl-flight does take a few extra seconds. Meanwhile friend (who would have come out after Lily in the wand, but we never went that far), is killed by Voldie. Voldie chases Lily. That batch is well known, the scar, the evaporation of Voldie leaves just the DE with the baby, but as he starts towards Harry, James appears, and holds him off. Meanwhile, the equivalent of police sirens (and prolly real ones!) are going off in the Wizard world.... The DE picks up Voldie's wand, he forgot his own, and zaps James. Let's see... How about Sirius pops in next, and the DE apparates away, leaving baby Harry, two dead parents, and one guilty looking Sirius at the scene. Of course the DE takes Voldie's wand. And if that DE happens to be Peter? Just a thought. ----- Original Message ----- From: Joywitch To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 12:45 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Some observations and inquiries --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Lisa Rourke" wrote: > On to the observation...with Halloween approaching, I was thinking about > that date and the fact that it was the day that Harry's parents were killed > by Voldemort. I'm sure somebody has probably noted this but things always > seem to happen at Hogwarts on this date also. In PS/SS the mountain troll > attacks Hermione on Halloween. In CoS the Chamber is opened and Harry hears > the basilisk in the pipes in the wall on Halloween. In PoA Sirius Black > slashes the portrait of the Fat Lady and in GoF Harry is named the Fourth > Champion after his name is spit out of the Goblet of Fire. Interesting. > Very perceptive, Lisa. I dont think anyone else caught that one. the chapter > in PoA where Professor Lupin is trying to teach Harry how to produce a > patronus. Chapter 12 pg. 240-241 What stuck in my mind was the part > ....."...then came a new voice, a man's voice, shouting, panicking-"Lily, > take Harry and go! It's Him! Go! Run! I'll hold him off-". And Harry > says "I heard my dad" "That's the first time I've ever heard him-" I > always took that at face value. Harry heard his father. But how does he > know the voice he heard really belong to his father? We know the female > voice is that of his mother, she's even referred to by name. But Harry > assumes the man's voice is his father's because he knows that they were > together when they died. I think it would be just like JKR to make us > believe this by having Harry state it as fact. I suppose one could argue > that he actually saw his father and heard him speak in GoF when he came out > of the wand but under the circumstances I don't he had time to compare the > voices he heard. I just thought this would make an interesting twist and > lend credence to the theory that maybe somebody else was there trying to > protect them or warn them. > This might also help explain the whole why-did-James-and-Lily-come- out-of-the-wand-in-the-wrong-order problem, although Im not sure how. Anyone want to take a stab? --Joywitch eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Oct 11 19:01:48 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:01:48 -0000 Subject: Apparating Message-ID: <8s2des+3b56@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3252 I apologize if someone has asked this question before, but I was wondering about Apparating. Can a wizard simply Apparate himself wherever he likes, whenever he likes? I know there are splinching issues, but what I'm wondering is: can you only apparate to places you've already been, or places you somehow have been given the 'coordinates' to, or can you Apparate anywhere, even to a place you've never seen or been before? If so, that seems somehow too...easy. Any thoughts? From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Oct 11 19:05:31 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:05:31 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Apparating References: <8s2des+3b56@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004b01c033b6$3ae7ad20$2043ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3253 > I apologize if someone has asked this question before, but I was > wondering about Apparating. Can a wizard simply Apparate himself > wherever he likes, whenever he likes? I know there are splinching > issues, but what I'm wondering is: can you only apparate to places > you've already been, or places you somehow have been given the > 'coordinates' to, or can you Apparate anywhere, even to a place > you've never seen or been before? If so, that seems somehow > too...easy. > > Any thoughts? Well, I'm thinking they have to have a destination in mind, even if its from a map. Maybe street intersections. In order to be discreet in front of the muggles, the wizard should have an idea of a proper...er...landing spot. Maybe wizard maps show appropriate disapparation locations...kind of like the floo network and the fireplace network. Aha! a potential new department for the MoM. I don't think each wizard would have had to have been to a place to apparate there, but some sort of prior navigational planning should be. did that help? carole From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 11 19:50:14 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:50:14 -0000 Subject: Apparating In-Reply-To: <8s2des+3b56@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s2g9m+ahnc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3254 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" < cassandraclaire at m...> wrote: > I apologize if someone has asked this question before, but I was > wondering about Apparating. Can a wizard simply Apparate himself > wherever he likes, whenever he likes? I know there are splinching > issues, but what I'm wondering is: can you only apparate to places > you've already been, or places you somehow have been given the > 'coordinates' to, or can you Apparate anywhere, even to a place > you've never seen or been before? If so, that seems somehow > too...easy. > > Any thoughts? It sounds like you can apparate toward a particular place, as the wizards do to get to the world cup, or toward a particular person, as Dobby does to get to Harry at Privet Drive and Hogwarts (Hogwarts!!). [The wizards seems to have a blind spot about security at Hogwarts which reminds me of the French in WWII thinking no army could get past the Maginot line or through the forest of Ardennes] The DEs can apparate to wherever Voldemort is. Presumably they haven't been to Little Hangleton before and Dobby can't have been to Privet Drive before. Perhaps to get to a particular place you do have to know where it is, but to get to a person, you need some kind of connection with them. Are the rules the same for house elves and wizards? We don't know that either. Pippin From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Oct 11 19:13:36 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:13:36 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Weathermen? References: <8roo7p+ai1k@eGroups.com> <009f01c030dd$83d42d00$f4cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39E0D3B2.81D338BB@texas.net> <068901c03328$eb2a4be0$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> <39E48F14.E09BED7B@texas.net> Message-ID: <005101c033b7$61a66360$2043ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3255 > > That's why we must make Hermione our role model, and visit the library at > > regular intervals. > > Okay, *you* come sit my kids..... > > ---Amanda (read? what's "read"?) I feel your pain Amanda...HP was one of the first books I've read in the 7 years since my first baby was born (have 3 total now...children...more books)...before this January I was lucky to get through the daily newspaper (forget about Sunday papers) ..In January we started requiring my oldest to do 10-15 minutes of reading to himself while one of us reads to ourselves (its called sustained silent reading in the schools... SSR) anyway...all our other books were packed and he had gotten SS as a gift...so I picked it up and the rest is history....anyway..long response to say I understand where you are coming from. carole PS...just to tie this to the subject line...I was born in 1962 and I knew who the weathermen were...but I think I may be on the tail end of the generation who did. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 19:53:14 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:53:14 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Apparating References: <8s2des+3b56@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E4C52A.B4EBDA0F@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3256 Cassandra Claire wrote: > I apologize if someone has asked this question before, but I was > wondering about Apparating. Can a wizard simply Apparate himself > wherever he likes, whenever he likes? I know there are splinching > issues, but what I'm wondering is: can you only apparate to places > you've already been, or places you somehow have been given the > 'coordinates' to, or can you Apparate anywhere, even to a place > you've never seen or been before? If so, that seems somehow > too...easy. I'm wondering if JKR ever spent any time in the 70s watching The Tomorrow People, which was a british sci fi for kids show which was on, I believe, from 1973 to 1979 - I watched it on nickelodeon here in the states from 82 to 84, when Nick got much more hip & got rid of all the really cool yet cheezy shows like Livewire, 3rd Eye and TP (and when you can't do that on television got worse) - the show was basically about "the next stage of human evolution" - kids with powers like telekenesis, telepathy and of course teleportation (called Jaunting) which was possible over short distances, but to go a long way, you needed help from a band which their computer (TIM) used to transmit coordinate information & determine if there was a person at said corrdinate. And that's why I like the idea of apparation maps & "safe" locales - but that probably wouldn't explain how Percy was able to apparate from his bedroom to the kitchen for breakfast (or to some extent, why NO weasleys apparated home to say Molly, we're safe after hte incident at the world cup) - maybe short distances don't need maps, or safe locales, but longer ones do? From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Oct 11 19:58:35 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:58:35 -0000 Subject: Apparating In-Reply-To: <8s2g9m+ahnc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s2gpb+o3su@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3257 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" < > cassandraclaire at m...> wrote: > > I apologize if someone has asked this question before, but I was > > wondering about Apparating. Can a wizard simply Apparate himself > > wherever he likes, whenever he likes? I know there are splinching > > issues, but what I'm wondering is: can you only apparate to places > > you've already been, or places you somehow have been given the > > 'coordinates' to, or can you Apparate anywhere, even to a place > > you've never seen or been before? If so, that seems somehow > > too...easy. > > > > Any thoughts? > > It sounds like you can apparate toward a particular place, as the > wizards do to get to the world cup, or toward a particular person, as > Dobby does to get to Harry at Privet Drive and Hogwarts (Hogwarts!!). > [The wizards seems to have a blind spot about security at Hogwarts > which reminds me of the French in WWII thinking no army could get > past the Maginot line or through the forest of Ardennes] > The DEs can apparate to wherever Voldemort is. Presumably they > haven't been to Little Hangleton before and Dobby can't have been to > Privet Drive before. Perhaps to get to a particular place you do have > to know where it is, but to get to a person, you need some kind of > connection with them. Are the rules the same for house elves and > wizards? We don't know that either. > Pippin Hmm. But Dobby couldn't have Apparated to Harry at Hogwarts -- remember (puts on bossy Hermione voice) You Can't Apparate Into Or Out Of Hogwarts. :) So that must be house-elf magic of some sort. I'm thinking that you must need some sort of touchstone (Voldie might have worked some spell that allows the Death Eaters to Apparate to his side) or a specific location, or coordinates...otherwise what's to stop you Apparating into the middle of a tree? From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 11 20:24:43 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:24:43 -0000 Subject: Apparating In-Reply-To: <8s2gpb+o3su@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s2iab+3d0g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3258 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" < cassandraclaire at m...> wrote: > > Hmm. But Dobby couldn't have Apparated to Harry at Hogwarts -- > remember (puts on bossy Hermione voice) You Can't Apparate Into Or > Out > Of Hogwarts. :) So that must be house-elf magic of some sort. > > I'm thinking that you must need some sort of touchstone (Voldie might > have worked some spell that allows the Death Eaters to Apparate to > his > side) or a specific location, or coordinates...otherwise what's to > stop you Apparating into the middle of a tree? Specific locations or coordinates aside, what's to stop you from apparating into somebody else? Like into some old dear doing her shopping, I think it says. Yes, chapter six, GOF where Charlie shows up 5 miles south of where he intended to be. The protection for that must be built into the spell, if it's done correctly. I tend to think the statement You Can't Apparate Into Or > Out > Of Hogwarts. :) is to be taken with a grain of salt..., just like Snape's statement that nobody but a wizard can break into his office:) Books can be misleading...especially JKR :) From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 11 20:21:17 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:21:17 -0000 Subject: merchandise In-Reply-To: <8s2auc+f5qd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s2i3t+jtbo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3259 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ht " wrote: > > Too big?! What's the use of a coffee/tea mug that's any smaller? > > > > ht I should have known that was coming! I'm a coffee-holic myself, but 15 oz. would get cold too fast. For me, anyway...;+) > I think Barnes and Nobles on line has the bookends. Another place is > thelatestcraze.com where I bought the Harry Potter Coloring Fun book > for $6.95 (Scholastic's price is $5.95 but they will only sell it > through their school subscription program). The coloring book is a> "deal" because I've seen it auctioned on EBay and Yahoo for up to > $12. 00. I can't remember who, but someone said the other products on > that site were over-priced. > > :-) Milz Ah, B&N, of course. Thanks, Milz. My neighbor kids get the Scholastic order form in school, so I've asked them if I can add on to their next order. I'll check out thelatestcraze. I really don't check out any auction sites. I figure if I can't find it for sale someplace, and cheaper, I don't need it. My bank balance won't allow it. Thanks again, Kelley From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 20:49:17 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Haley Joel Osment on Harry Potter Message-ID: <20001011204917.10119.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3260 Here's an article from TVGuide.com where Haley Joel Osment talks about the Harry Potter movie (if anyone's interested): http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/001011a.asp From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Oct 11 20:53:06 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:53:06 -0000 Subject: Apparating In-Reply-To: <8s2iab+3d0g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s2jvi+jl7p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3261 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > > Specific locations or coordinates aside, what's to stop you from > apparating into somebody else? Like into some old dear doing her > shopping, I think it says. Yes, chapter six, GOF where Charlie shows > up > 5 miles south of where he intended to be. The protection for that > must > be built into the spell, if it's done correctly. > I tend to think the statement You Can't Apparate Into Or > > Out > > Of Hogwarts. :) is to be taken with a grain of salt..., just like > Snape's statement that nobody but a wizard can break into his > office:) > Books can be misleading...especially JKR :) Maybe only house-elves can Apparate into or out of Hogwarts...ack, my head is hurting now. :) Good point about Charlie, though, I'd forgotten that! So you *must* need to know where you're going, that must be built into the spell somehow. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 21:19:13 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:19:13 -0400 Subject: Another Interview References: <8s2iab+3d0g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E4D951.85E73BB0@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3262 Barnes & Noble is having one for those of you without aol access - here's the info from their site: Don't miss our live chat with J.K. Rowling on Friday, October 20th at 2:00 PM ET! And the bookends at http://www.barnesandnoble.com/gift/kids/harry_potter/index.asp?userid=1PAZU0F1FR aren't the same as the "train" ones they had at the warner brothers store. From joym999 at aol.com Wed Oct 11 21:41:27 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:41:27 -0000 Subject: Apparating In-Reply-To: <8s2des+3b56@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s2mq7+a058@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3263 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" wrote: > I apologize if someone has asked this question before, but I was > wondering about Apparating. Can a wizard simply Apparate himself > wherever he likes, whenever he likes? I know there are splinching > issues, but what I'm wondering is: can you only apparate to places > you've already been, or places you somehow have been given the > 'coordinates' to, or can you Apparate anywhere, even to a place > you've never seen or been before? If so, that seems somehow > too...easy. > > Any thoughts? Sounds to me like you are thinking of Anne McCaffreys Pern books, and the way dragons go *between*. The dragon has to have a mental image in his/her mind, given to him/her by his/her (human) rider in order to go there (or then, since dragons can travel thru time). The rider has to have been there or seen a detailed picture of the place. Even if that is not what you were thinking of, Cassandra, it sound like apparating is the same thing, with the same problems, as going between for the Pern dragons. Maybe the apparating spell has a built in safeguard, like the Star Trek transporter, that makes sure you dont reassemble in the produce section at Safeway, with your head inside a cantelope. I bet JKR hasnt really thought this one out. As for the question of how Dobby manages to apparate into Hogwarts in CoS, maybe he didnt - maybe he came with his evil master, Lucius Malfoy. After all, Malfoy was at that point a Hogwarts Governor. Malfoy may have been at the school for a governors meeting or whatever and brought his servant with him. Dobby sneaks away during the meeting to see Harry. Well, its possible, anyway. --Joywitch From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 11 21:47:02 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:47:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Apparating References: <8s2mq7+a058@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E4DFD5.78879C0A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3264 Joywitch wrote: > As for the question of how Dobby manages to apparate into Hogwarts in > CoS, maybe he didnt - maybe he came with his evil master, Lucius > Malfoy. After all, Malfoy was at that point a Hogwarts Governor. > Malfoy may have been at the school for a governors meeting or > whatever and brought his servant with him. Well, Dobby did disappear after a conversation with Harry, didn't he? Did he live at Hogwarts at that point? Because maybe you can Apparate *within* Hogwarts, but just not into or out of it. Just muddying the waters further, Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 11 21:49:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:49:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Haley Joel Osment on Harry Potter References: <20001011204917.10119.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39E4E052.D097FA44@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3265 Anake wrote: > Here's an article from TVGuide.com where Haley Joel Osment talks about the Harry > Potter movie (if anyone's interested): > http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/001011a.asp Wow. Out of the mouths of babes, eh? I agree with him; if we've got to have a movie, let's do it to the nines (like they are), but I'd rather no movie at all. --Amanda From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 22:09:45 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Haley Joel Osment on Harry Potter Message-ID: <20001011220945.22816.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3266 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Anake wrote: > > > Here's an article from TVGuide.com where Haley Joel Osment talks about the > Harry > > Potter movie (if anyone's interested): > > http://www.tvguide.com/newsgossip/insider/001011a.asp > > Wow. Out of the mouths of babes, eh? I agree with him; if we've got to have a > movie, let's do it to the nines (like they are), but I'd rather no > movie at all. > I think Haley sounds very mature for his age. But it's kind of funny when he refers to kids, yet, at age 12, he's still a kid himself. I agree about the books losing their magic and sometimes I get worried. But then I think to myself, will the books lose their magic to me? Of course not. If a book is so far away from a movie, I seem them as seperate items, just like Stephen King's The Shining and Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. The only two mediums of The Shining, besides the characters, are so different but I think of them as THE MOVIE and THE BOOK, and I never lose my love of either of them even though THE MOVIe strayed so far away from THE BOOK. I'm rambling. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Oct 11 23:02:50 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:02:50 -0000 Subject: Apparating In-Reply-To: <39E4DFD5.78879C0A@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s2riq+qgsl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3267 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > > As for the question of how Dobby manages to apparate into Hogwarts in > > CoS, maybe he didnt - maybe he came with his evil master, Lucius > > Malfoy. After all, Malfoy was at that point a Hogwarts Governor. > > Malfoy may have been at the school for a governors meeting or > > whatever and brought his servant with him. > > Well, Dobby did disappear after a conversation with Harry, didn't he? Did > he live at Hogwarts at that point? Because maybe you can Apparate > *within* Hogwarts, but just not into or out of it. > > Just muddying the waters further, > > Amanda But Apparating is a specific kind of magic -- wizard magic. Dobby *disappeared* but we don't know that he *disapparated.* Maybe he just used house-elf magic. (We know there is such a thing.) cassie jumping up and down and muddying the waters EVEN more! From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 23:52:09 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (r d) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:52:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Talented Mr. Riddle Message-ID: <20001011235209.16527.qmail@web1502.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3268 --- Caius Marcius wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jinx" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2000 5:02 AM > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] The Talented Mr. Riddle > > > Or maybe very few people knew that Voldy was Tom > Riddle, because Tom > Riddle > > was dead. I wouldn't put it past Voldemort to > fake his own death and > leave > > Tom Riddle behind him for good, before fleeing > somewhere very remote to > > study the Dark Arts. > > Right - but Dumbledore did somehow learn of the > Riddle-Voldemort link, but > chose not to make this information widely available. > Perhaps he assumed > that no traces of Riddle survived, not having been > aware of the magic diary > (but the Malfoys certainly knew of it). > > - CMC > Olivander knows Tom Riddle is Voldemort. Presumably he sold TR his wand (the same wand that is the brother to Harry's wand) when he was 11 and starting to attend Hogwarts. "It is very curious indeed that you should be destined for this wand when it's brother --- why, it's brother gave you this scar." He must know then that TR and V are one and the same. Elizabeth (wno mostly lurkS) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 11 23:53:28 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:53:28 -0000 Subject: Another Interview In-Reply-To: <39E4D951.85E73BB0@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8s2uho+srkj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3269 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > And the bookends at > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/gift/kids/harry_potter/index.asp? userid=1PAZU0F1FR > aren't the same as the "train" ones they had at the warner brothers store. Oh, okay, so it was WB that had the train bookends. I guess they're no longer available online, are they still in the stores? I really want some HP bookends, and I can't clearly recall the details of the train ones; I'm trying to decide which ones I want. Does anyone know if the prices are similar? You know what, never mind, there's plenty of B&N's and one WB store here in SA. I'll just get on the phone. Thanks for all the help, everybody. Kelley From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Oct 12 00:00:57 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:00:57 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter et la Coupe de Feu Message-ID: <8s2uvp+v0t3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3270 Take a look at the new French cover for Book 4 in our Files area. Release date is November 29. -Jim Flanagan From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 11 23:59:29 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:59:29 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lots of Topics References: <8s29v4+3s4o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E4FEE1.EF870228@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3271 ht wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > > I think Rita has hit upon something important here that we havent > > discussed (imagine that! an aspect of HP that we havent picked to > > death yet!). Why IS everyone so scared of Voldy? All we know is > > that he killed a bunch of people. While that is pretty bad, is a > > wizard serial killer bad enough to put a whole society in such a > > fright? > > Voldy's not just a wizard serial killer. It's more like living in > Berlin in the late 1930s, waiting for the Nazis to kick in the door. > Gosh, you think that's what she intended? ;-) > > And even if he is just a serial killer, that's enough to put a > society on edge. Think New York during the Son of Sam murders, or > Atlanta during the 2 years Wayne Williams was killing African- > American boys. I agree with HT - and not just because my initials are the same - Voldemort isn't just a mad, evil, lunatic guy - he's a mad, evil lunatic with followers who are also mad, evil lunatics. There's an element of terrorism in what the Death Eaters do as well - leaving their symbol behind when they attack, going after people who are completely uninvolved whatever situation is going on (i.e. the muggle killings) - and I'm sure a lot of us in the US can remember what panic even the isolated instances of terrorism, like the Oklahoma City bombing and the Olympic bombing, or instances which turned out to likely not be terrorism, like Flight 800, caused across the country, albeit temporarily - imagine that kind of fear & crackdown on a daily basis. Pretty lame comparison, I admit, but the closest I can get to from personal experience. Although I can tell you that when Andrew Cunanen killed Versace down the street from my dad's office, and then hid out basically across the water from my parents' house, it was enough to make me panickey until they found him dead. And these were just mortal muggles. From donnadr at gte.net Thu Oct 12 00:01:22 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:01:22 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a hello msg References: <8s216u+mekf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006f01c033df$8f94ef80$c3a2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3272 Hey...Diogo...Welcome to the list. I've been here for about three weeks now and I got to say this is one of the most active lists I belong to. The discussions are thought-provoking and intelligent. You'll love it. Welcome again... Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:32 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a hello msg I'm sorry I'm not speaking about HP, I just wanted to say hi to everybody, I've just signed in. And of course, I love HP, I can't wait for the 5th book. See ya, XXX Diogo eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nlpnt at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 00:52:11 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:52:11 -0000 Subject: Haley Joel Osment on Harry Potter In-Reply-To: <20001011220945.22816.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8s31vr+2v61@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3273 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Anake wrote: > > > I think Haley sounds very mature for his age. But it's kind of funny when he refers > to kids, yet, at age 12, he's still a kid himself. > My take on it was that he's referring to younger kids and future generations who'll see the movie before reading the book; most 10-13 year olds by now have read "Stone", at least. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Oct 12 01:23:08 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:23:08 -0000 Subject: Another Interview In-Reply-To: <39E4D951.85E73BB0@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8s33ps+2b7h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3274 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > And the bookends at > http://www.barnesandnoble.com/gift/kids/harry_potter/index.asp? userid=1PAZU0F1FR > aren't the same as the "train" ones they had at the warner brothers store. Oh, okay, so it was WB that had the train bookends. I guess they're no longer available online, are they still in the stores? I really want some HP bookends, and I can't clearly recall the details of the train ones; I'm trying to decide which ones I want. Does anyone know if the prices are similar? You know what, never mind, there's plenty of B&N's and one WB store here in SA. I'll just get on the phone. Thanks for all the help, everybody. Kelley From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 12 01:11:41 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:11:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading References: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <39E50FCC.1F900361@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3275 voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > On Tue, 10 October 2000, Peg Kerr wrote: > > > Once, I tried a week of reading deprivation, at the suggestion of _The Artist's Way_, a book on creativity, just to see what it was like. > > Quit reading for a week?!? No, thank you very much! I'm one of those read-at-least-3-books-at-a-time people. And if fanfiction counts as "books", up that number to 6! > > So, what was the premise of the book's suggestion? That reading helps or hinders creativity? > >From _The Artist's Way_: (see pp. 87-89) "If you feel stuck in your life or your art, few jump starts are more effective than a week of reading deprivation. No reading? That's right: no reading. For most artists, words are like tiny tranquilizers. We have a daily dose of media chat that we swallow up. Like greasy food, it clogs our systems. Too much of it and we feel, yes, fried. It is a paradox that by emptying our lives of distractions we are actually filling the well. Without distractions, we are once again thrust in the sensory world. With no newspaper to shield us, a train becomes a viewing gallery. With no novel to sink into (and no television to numb us out) an evening becomes a vast savannah in which furniture--and other assumptions--get rearranged. Reading deprivation casts us into our inner silence, a space some of us begin immediately to fill with new words--long, gossipy conversations, television bingeing, the radio as constant, chatty companion. We often cannot hear our inner voice, the voice of our artist's inspiration, above the static. In practicing reading deprivation, we need to cast a watchful eye on these other pollutants. They poison the well. If we monitor the inflow and keep it to a minimum, we will be rewarded for our reading deprivation with embarrassing speed. Our reward will be a new outflow. Our own art, our own thoughts and feelings, will begin to nudge aside the sludge of blockage, to loosen it and move it upward and outward until once again our well is running freely. Reading deprivation is a very powerful tool--and a very frightening one. Even thinking about it can bring up enormous rage. For most blocked creatives, reading is an addiction. We gobble the words of others rather than digest our own thoughts and feelings , rather than cook up something of our own. . . . " Peg P.S. if anyone is moved to try this, I'd be interested in how the experience went for you. For me, the whole week was an unpleasant and rather unnerving, but eye-opening experience. P.P.S. And you know, the author of _The Artist's Way_ has a point. Voicelady, I think, has uttered a gentle complaint that I'm not working on my next book. Part of the problem is that I spend too much time reading this listserve! From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Oct 12 01:48:04 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:48:04 -0000 Subject: Sorry, and talked to WB and B&N In-Reply-To: <39E4D951.85E73BB0@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8s358k+tuh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3276 Sorry my last message posted twice guys. That was weird-- I posted the message the first time, came back online a couple hours later, came to the site to post a new message, and my old one came back up. I thought maybe it didn't go through, so I sent it again, then when I clicked on post to write this message, my old one kept coming up. I just deleted it all, and started writing this. Anyone know what that's all about? So, I called the WB store here in SA, talked to an employee who was ~very~ into HP, and she told me they got the bookends in back in July and sold them out in less than two weeks. No more have come in yet, but they expect plenty of stuff in time for the holidays. She said they had in a new item right now, a sorting hat key chain that works like magic eight balls--shake it and it tells you what house you're in. Neat. Oh, she also told me that they are supposed to turn in anyone they hear of selling HP stuff, because WB is supposed to have exclusive rights-- and she specificly mentioned the Gore/HP buttons! Said someone told her about them. I asked her about B&N selling HP stuff, but she didn't know if there was a problem with that or not. Kind of 'no comment'. I also called B&N, he said they have lots of HP stuff coming in each day (every day is a surprise, he said), no bookends yet, but keep checking back. So, Heidi, weren't you in possession of those buttons? (If I have the wrong person, I apologize.) But, now that they're so 'taboo', I ~really~ want one. Kelley From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 03:02:05 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:02:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading References: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <39E50FCC.1F900361@ibm.net> Message-ID: <003f01c033f8$d32cabc0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3277 APPPPPPPPLLLLLLLAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSEEEEEEEEE Ok, you go Peg! You are amazing. You think you're dealing with writers' block, when the seven sins are some of the most beautifully written things I have read in awhile (since SS, at least--winks). I wish I could get my novels finished and published, but I think I do have a sensory overstimulation going on. I get almost 600 emails daily. Do you think I am reading too much? Grins. Seriously, Peg, thank you for reminding me once again about the wonders of the world, and how much we tend to be compulsed to read. From email, to the newspaper (even if you're "only reading it for the comics" or the want ads, you are reading!), to the drivers' ed. state book sitting here beside the computer to the website in the other window! I am constantly reading daily. I need a reminder now and then, to stop, toss the paper out the front door, shut off the computer, turn off the Disney movies (closed captions, reading again, lol), and shut the books. Turn on a piece of classic music (G-string, perhaps), and sit to play cars, people, or even Buzz Lightyear/Woody with my son, and just enjoy the moment. Don't worry about cleaning--the dirt isn't going anyway. Life is, though. Age is creeping along like a mist wrapping us in its coils of cares. Thank you. Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Reading voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > On Tue, 10 October 2000, Peg Kerr wrote: > > > Once, I tried a week of reading deprivation, at the suggestion of _The Artist's Way_, a book on creativity, just to see what it was like. > > Quit reading for a week?!? No, thank you very much! I'm one of those read-at-least-3-books-at-a-time people. And if fanfiction counts as "books", up that number to 6! > > So, what was the premise of the book's suggestion? That reading helps or hinders creativity? > From _The Artist's Way_: (see pp. 87-89) "If you feel stuck in your life or your art, few jump starts are more effective than a week of reading deprivation. No reading? That's right: no reading. For most artists, words are like tiny tranquilizers. We have a daily dose of media chat that we swallow up. Like greasy food, it clogs our systems. Too much of it and we feel, yes, fried. It is a paradox that by emptying our lives of distractions we are actually filling the well. Without distractions, we are once again thrust in the sensory world. With no newspaper to shield us, a train becomes a viewing gallery. With no novel to sink into (and no television to numb us out) an evening becomes a vast savannah in which furniture--and other assumptions--get rearranged. Reading deprivation casts us into our inner silence, a space some of us begin immediately to fill with new words--long, gossipy conversations, television bingeing, the radio as constant, chatty companion. We often cannot hear our inner voice, the voice of our artist's inspiration, above the static. In practicing reading deprivation, we need to cast a watchful eye on these other pollutants. They poison the well. If we monitor the inflow and keep it to a minimum, we will be rewarded for our reading deprivation with embarrassing speed. Our reward will be a new outflow. Our own art, our own thoughts and feelings, will begin to nudge aside the sludge of blockage, to loosen it and move it upward and outward until once again our well is running freely. Reading deprivation is a very powerful tool--and a very frightening one. Even thinking about it can bring up enormous rage. For most blocked creatives, reading is an addiction. We gobble the words of others rather than digest our own thoughts and feelings , rather than cook up something of our own. . . . " Peg P.S. if anyone is moved to try this, I'd be interested in how the experience went for you. For me, the whole week was an unpleasant and rather unnerving, but eye-opening experience. P.P.S. And you know, the author of _The Artist's Way_ has a point. Voicelady, I think, has uttered a gentle complaint that I'm not working on my next book. Part of the problem is that I spend too much time reading this listserve! eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Ellimist15 at aol.com Thu Oct 12 02:27:30 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:27:30 EDT Subject: Not So Faithful (was: Re: The Imperius Curse) Message-ID: <3b.b0d0ea8.27167b92@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3278 > For all that Moody/Crouch said "There's nothing I hate more than a > Death Eater who walked free" and mouthed off about disloyal followers > who denied their lord just to avoid Azkaban, he himself had *loudly* > denied his lord ("Father! I'm innocent! I didn't do it!") in an > unsuccessful effort to avoid Azkaban. It's always possible that Crouch Jr. wasn't involved in torturing the Longbottoms. Although we know he *was* a death eater, technically, he would be "innocent" in that particular trial. Let's just say for the moment that the other three people he was with at the trial were indeed the ones responsible for the Longbottom tortures. There was nothing Crouch Jr. could do to keep them from Azkaban, but by revealing that he was not involved, he would walk free to try to help Voldemort. Plus, because he isn't betraying anyone on his side to get out of prison, Voldemort couldn't accuse him of betrayal. (Did that make sense?) Thoughts? Ellie From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Oct 12 02:31:39 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:31:39 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading References: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <39E50FCC.1F900361@ibm.net> Message-ID: <005c01c033f4$8d7b9fe0$396a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3279 > > > From _The Artist's Way_: (see pp. 87-89) > > "If you feel stuck in your life or your art, few jump starts are more effective > than a week of reading deprivation. > > No reading? That's right: no reading. For most artists, words are like tiny > tranquilizers. We have a daily dose of media chat that we swallow up. Like > greasy food, it clogs our systems. Too much of it and we feel, yes, fried. I can definitely see their point. I relate it in my head as input and output. After doing a lot of reading I can sense that I've had too much input and need to do some output...either conversing with someone or writing or something to get the thoughts flowing out of my head rather than into my head. Its a real trick to keep the two forces balanced. After a long weekend away from books...or when I've had to do a lot of interacting I really need the input to charge up again. I too am one who reads everything. I really can't stand sitting down to eat at home without something to read in front of me...drives Randy crazy....And at least now I sometimes carry a notebook to write in or a book to read from, depending on whether its an input or output day. carole From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Oct 12 03:15:50 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 03:15:50 -0000 Subject: Priori Incantem and James and Lily's Echos In-Reply-To: <8ri9fl+ibmp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s3ad6+uuch@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3280 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Bonnie Kretschmer" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, cassandraclaire73 at y... wrote: > > To my mind it's a discrepancy on the level of the whole > > Priori-Incantatem-James-and-Lily-wand-order thing. > > Hmmmm... you guys must have discussed this but I really > have no desire to wade through thousands of messages to > find out what the outcome was. Could someone tell me if > you guys discussed the possibility that James was not > killed by Voldemort, but instead by a death-eater, after > Voldemort's demise, with his wand? > > If not, I can elaborate on the theory a bit and we can > discuss it. > > Thanks! > Bonnie Bonnie-- I'd love to hear your theory. It's been suggested that someone else was with Vold as a means of explaining how Vold got his wand back in GoF. My theory of P.I. reversed places is that something happened that night causing James to be cursed again ~after~ Lily, so as to justify him coming out of the wand first. Seems pretty much anything could be plausible. Kelley From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 12 03:14:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:14:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sorry, and talked to WB and B&N References: <8s358k+tuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E52C9E.1FD5F986@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3281 Kelley wrote: > they had in a new item right now, a sorting hat key chain that works > like magic eight balls--shake it and it tells you what house you're > in. Neat. Yeah, the one I picked up to look at said "Ravenclaw." I liked that and stopped there. And I got a Snitch keychain! They'd just put them out a couple days ago, there were only three left, and I got one for me and one for my Potter-loving friend. I didn't get a chance to look at much more, I had all three kids with me, two of whom are mobile (we were actually there to exchange a Superman sleeper). But the sorting hats are cute. I wish they'd put the adult shirts out in Omar-double-wide so I could get one.... --Amanda From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Oct 12 03:26:48 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:26:48 -0500 Subject: The Death Eaters' Song References: <06ef01c03329$e98a3b00$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <003001c033fc$41c55340$55c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3282 (to the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club) Who's the skull-projecting gang that causes such distress? D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! The house of Gryffindor, we think, should have one student less D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! We eat death! Like Macbeth! Avada Kedavra, it's your final breath! (Death! Breath! Yeth!) >From Slytherin we slithered out to serve him fearfully V-O-L-D-E-M-O-R-silent-T! He's now alive, and come Book Five, then Potter's history V-O-L.. He'll give Harry "L"! D-E-M... We'll get the rest of "M," too! O-R-silent T! - CMC From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 12 03:20:41 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:20:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Death Eaters' Song References: <06ef01c03329$e98a3b00$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> <003001c033fc$41c55340$55c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39E52E09.C734543C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3283 There is absolutely nothing on the planet that can replace a warped genius with time on his hands. I salute thee! --Amanda, one out of three Caius Marcius wrote: > (to the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club) > > Who's the skull-projecting gang that causes such distress? > D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! > The house of Gryffindor, we think, should have one student less > D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! > > We eat death! Like Macbeth! > Avada Kedavra, it's your final breath! > (Death! Breath! Yeth!) > > >From Slytherin we slithered out to serve him fearfully > V-O-L-D-E-M-O-R-silent-T! > He's now alive, and come Book Five, then Potter's history > V-O-L.. He'll give Harry "L"! > D-E-M... We'll get the rest of "M," too! > O-R-silent T! > > - CMC > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From klaatu at primenet.com Thu Oct 12 03:28:55 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:28:55 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Death Eaters' Song In-Reply-To: <003001c033fc$41c55340$55c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3284 This is priceless... thanks for the laugh! ================================================== Website of the Week: http://nen.sedona.net/circleofa/ (Course in Miracles Workbook) Current Book: "Training the Mind" by Chogyam Trungpa Quote: "Sometimes a majority just means all the fools are on the same side." ================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Caius Marcius [mailto:coriolan at worldnet.att.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:27 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Death Eaters' Song (to the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club) Who's the skull-projecting gang that causes such distress? D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! The house of Gryffindor, we think, should have one student less D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! We eat death! Like Macbeth! Avada Kedavra, it's your final breath! (Death! Breath! Yeth!) >From Slytherin we slithered out to serve him fearfully V-O-L-D-E-M-O-R-silent-T! He's now alive, and come Book Five, then Potter's history V-O-L.. He'll give Harry "L"! D-E-M... We'll get the rest of "M," too! O-R-silent T! - CMC From pogoniamalfoy at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 03:35:45 2000 From: pogoniamalfoy at hotmail.com (Pogonia the Harry Potter fan) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:35:45 EDT Subject: Some observations and inquiries Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3285 It's interesting to read Lisa and Denise's observations on the night of Lily and James's death since my writing partner and I are partway working on a fic that gets into some of these issues. We have decided that the Fidelius charm must function by creating a tradeoff: The Secret is concealed absolutely from the world, but known at all times to the Secret-Keeper. If the secret is the location of the Potters, then wherever they were, their Secret-Keeper would know it. This is why Voldemort knew to come to Godric's Hollow instead of going to James's hiding place, where Sirius first looked for him on the night of the murders. The charm would be broken if the Secret-Keeper revealed the secret. A yet-undiscussed issue of the wand concerns the shadow of the curse that rebounded from Harry and killed Voldemort. It should have come after Lily's death and before Bertha's. Where is it in the Priori Incantatem scene? Is it the same charm that killed James? Did the rebound of the curse on Harry travel back through the wand and destroy its own "carbon copy" inside the wand's memory? Pogonia _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 04:06:21 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 04:06:21 -0000 Subject: Some observations and inquiries In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s3dbt+ljh4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3286 Actually, I think this has been mentioned before, at least tangentially. One school of thought dismisses the entire question, figuring "oh, the curse failed, and the copy of a failed curse mustn't get 'stored' in the wand". But there is another interesting theory that explains what happened to the echo of this curse as well as why the order of Lily and James's death was seemingly mixed up. This theory holds that what Harry believed to be a phantom of James was really 1) Harry himself, or, much less likely, IMO, 2) Tom Riddle/Voldemort. If that's true, then this phantom represents the failed curse intended to kill Harry that rebounded on Voldy, while James's phantom never appeared at all (it would have been next in line after Lily's). There are problems with this theory (if the phantom was Harry, why was it an adult, and not a baby; if the phantom was Tom Riddle, why did it help Harry?), and I don't necessarily hold with it myself, but I think it is one of the few simple, coherent, and satisfying explanations for the Priori Incantetem order being, apparently, "wrong." From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 04:33:08 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 04:33:08 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <8ru77l+8efe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s3eu4+gp3n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3287 i think that it has a lot to do with Dumbledore, and not actually a symbol for elves or such. Dumbledore said he saw socks as christmas presents in the mirror of erised. This mirror is supposed to reflect one's inner most desires, right? I kept expecting harry to give Dumbledore a pair of socks dring the whole book. and then in books 2, 3 and 4 i kept expecting that he'd remember. My opinion is that Dumbledore is seen as a most powerful wizard, and that as such, socks would be presents beneath him. instead, he always recieves books as presents. -odile- --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Assuming Dumbledore was telling the truth about seeing himself > with socks in the Mirror of Erised, what could he have meant? > > Susan From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 12 04:08:37 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:08:37 -0500 Subject: A brazen hussy moment . . . Message-ID: <39E53944.BEA240E5@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3288 Here's my own close encounter with JK Rowling. After much hesitancy (and after consulting with Penny to see if it would be ok) I've decided to mention it. Specifically, there's a website called SF Site, which is the home site for a number of the science fiction magazines and organizations in my field. In their Best of 1999 list, they named Rowling's _Prisoner of Azkaban_ the third best science fiction or fantasy book of the year, and my _The Wild Swans_ was named as the fourth. See: http://sfsite.com//columns/best00.htm The original review that they based their Year's Best 10 list on is the best review I've ever received in my career. It's at: http://sfsite.com//07a/wild60.htm (Warning--it contains spoilers.) And hey, as long as I'm being a brazen hussy, I'll also mention that I just found out that _The Wild Swans_ was a co-winner of the 2000 Gaylactic Network Spectrum Awards, for best novel of the year. (The Spectrum Award was created to honor works in science fiction, fantasy and horror that deal positively with gay characters, themes and issues.) See http://www.lambdasf.org/spectrum/ Peg From brooksar at indy.net Thu Oct 12 05:18:26 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:18:26 -0500 Subject: Apparation References: <971308923.10015@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39E549A2.9599768A@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3289 Heidi writes: > I'm wondering if JKR ever spent any time in the 70s watching The Tomorrow > People, which was a british sci fi for kids show which was on, I believe, > from 1973 to 1979 - I watched it on nickelodeon here in the states from 82 > to 84, when Nick got much more hip & got rid of all the really cool yet > cheezy shows like Livewire, 3rd Eye and TP (and when you can't do that on > television got worse) - the show was basically about "the next stage of > human evolution" - kids with powers like telekenesis, telepathy and of > course teleportation (called Jaunting) Jaunting? THAT made me sit up and take notice. Jaunting is the name for the teleportation skill in Alfred Bester's _The Stars My Destination_, named that because the first guy who does it has the name Jaunte. (Yes, Walter Koenig's character in _Babylon 5_ is named in honor of that Great Old One Science Fiction writer.) I missed that on Nick because i didn't get cable till after that.... As for apparation, I am assuming it is visualization required, like the Pern Dragons, only mental-recitation spell triggered; and added the point of a sound effect of the displaced air, like Nightcrawler's in the X-men. -Brooks A Rowlett From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 12 05:20:41 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:20:41 -0000 Subject: Lots of Topics In-Reply-To: <8s288r+di8p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s3hn9+2e9m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3290 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > > Meanwhile, just how bad were things "when Voldemort was in power"? > We > > hear that during the 11 years before That Halloween, Voldemort > killed so > > many families that everyone was scared all the time, they couldn't > even > > bear to say his name, no one trusted even their best friends because > > "anyone" (not just Slytherins) could have gone over to the Dark > Side, or > > been put under the Imperius Curse by the Dark Side --- but the > Quidditch > > World Cup still went on, people still had jobs and got married and > sent > > their kids to school, the Marauders cared about their mischief > making, > > and sneaking out of school to have fun, not about protecting their > > families from being attacked by the Dark Side.... > > > I think Rita has hit upon something important here that we havent > discussed (imagine that! an aspect of HP that we havent picked to > death yet!). Why IS everyone so scared of Voldy? All we know is > that he killed a bunch of people. While that is pretty bad, is a > wizard serial killer bad enough to put a whole society in such a > fright Well, I lived in Ann Arbor during the year and a half when we had a serial rapist/killer. In the summer, the streets were mostly deserted. There were no women walking alone. A few mixed gender couples. But mostly people went around in crowds. Women jogged together. The fear was palpable. Voldemort killed and tortured a lot of people. The terror was in the uncertainty -- who would be next? Anyone was vulnerable. Voldemort was "taking over" according to Sirius Black. No one was sure who could be trusted. Hogwarts was a small island of safety (like Britain in WWII) besieged, surrounded. From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 12 05:30:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:30:10 -0000 Subject: Unspeakables? Message-ID: <8s3i92+usc9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3291 Please be patient with me, but in one of the books, someone is talking about the different departments in the Ministry of Magic and the different roles that wizards play whin the M of M. The Aurors are mentioned. Then there are wizards/witches who are the Mysterious? the Unspeakables? Does anyone remember? And what do we think they might do? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 12 05:41:20 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:41:20 -0000 Subject: book/movie Re: Haley Joel Osment on Harry Potter/ slightly OT In-Reply-To: <8s31vr+2v61@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s3iu0+sdfj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3292 I assume that the movie will never have the magic that the book had for me.... But it won't remove the book magic. I wonder how other people compare books and movies? I was disappointed in the LOTR movie, but it did not affect my enjoyment of the books. The Hobbit movie was okay (particularly for kids). I actually enjoyed the Tale of Two Cities movie MORE than the book (it was so dense and turgid). I'd probably say that about the Three and Four Musketeers and the Man in the Iron Mask as well. I enjoyed BOTH the book and the movie of the Count of Monte Cristo. Sword in the Stone movie could never even approach T.H.White's book. I loved the Scarlet Pimpernel as a book, and the movies were terrific. Mutiny on the Bounty -- both were good. Comments? Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Oct 12 06:58:57 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:58:57 -0000 Subject: Moody thoughts In-Reply-To: <39DFBF0B.8F6DFF8F@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8s3nfh+si9e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3293 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > One thing I've wondered: might the REAL Mad-Eye Moody be the DADA teacher next year? After all, he did agree to take the position. And sure, he was kidnapped and tied up in a trunk for months--but might he be recovered enough after the summer to come back and take the job next year? Or is he more likely to say (esp. after the events at the end of GoF, showing that > Voldemort is on the loose again) that upon thinking it over, thanks but no thanks--think I'll retire and work on my golf game instead. > Any guesses as to who/what next year's DADA teacher might be? (I'm hoping for a woman, myself.) > > Peg This was something we discussed on HPanonymous a little while back. JKR's made it very convenient to bring Moody back (as himself), so my guess is that will happen. Or, she could have him go back to being an Auror again, since Voldy's back in town. Actually, it will take a little time for Vold to get himself back up to fighting weight, so maybe Moody could be DADA next year, and then go back to the Auror job. My vote was for a woman, too. Someone smart and strong that we could like the way we do Lupin. Maybe someone for Sirius to get together with? Works for me. Kelley From milatan at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 09:05:30 2000 From: milatan at yahoo.com (Milagros Tan) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: book/movie Message-ID: <20001012090530.19424.qmail@web2003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3294 Hi, I am new to the list and have had a lot of fun lurking and reading the posts. The only comment I want to make is that I am excited about the upcoming HP movie, but it will definitely not take the place of the book. Hopefully, the makers will create some magic of their own and most fans will have a great time. I find that the best movie adaptations complement the book. The worst, well, should be quickly forgotten (one that comes to mind is the recent adaptation of the Scarlet Letter, or the too liberal Disney changes of the Little Mermaid story). Looking forward to more of the 7 deadly sins/virtues posts! Mila __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 10:28:08 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:28:08 -0000 Subject: Lots of Topics In-Reply-To: <39E4FEE1.EF870228@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8s43no+h41d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3295 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi "I agree with HT - and not just because my initials are the same - Voldemort > isn't just a mad, evil, lunatic guy - he's a mad, evil lunatic with followers who are also mad, evil lunatics..." The Nazi comparisons are particularly apt because of Voldemort's ambition to take over the wizarding world (ours too?) and the sadism of Voldemort and his followers. I'll bet a lot of his victims got a major dose of the Crucio Curse before Voldemort and his henchmen finished them off. How about living in fear that you will end up doing things repugnant to yourself under the Imperius Curse? Voldemort's first defeat must have seemed like V-E Day. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 12 12:12:35 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:12:35 -0400 Subject: wandless magic References: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <39E50FCC.1F900361@ibm.net> Message-ID: <39E5AAB3.9EFD949B@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3296 Does a flame freezing charm need a wand? Hopefully not, because then a witch or wizard caught by witch-hunters without a wand won't be able to perform the charm and enjoy that sought after tickling sensation and basically would be burned to a crisp. If a flame freezing charm needs no wand, what other spells don't, either? Can one "accio" without a wand, if one is trying to "accio" one's own wand? From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 12 12:43:29 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 12 Oct 2000 05:43:29 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading Message-ID: <20001012124329.2316.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3297 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 12 12:54:02 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 12 Oct 2000 05:54:02 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Death Eaters' Song Message-ID: <20001012125402.23958.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3298 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 12 14:44:07 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:44:07 -0000 Subject: Merchandise I think is Cool Message-ID: <8s4inn+n5an@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3299 Of course, you can feel free to disagree with me. It's at http://www.wbstore.com/store/wbss.product.asp? pfid=185496&mscssid=JVF7UL1263S92P4600A3HET506VRDNM5 - here's the summary: Everyone at Hogwarts knows that students are not allowed to cast spells between classes...but someone has! Now, it's up to each player to figure out which Harry Potter character cast what spell and where! But beware! the poltergeist, is running through the hall and can send you back to Start if you're not careful. Full of magical twists and action cards that reveal hidden passageways on the board. Boardgame based on original Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone. (apart from the fact that hte original is HP & the PHILOSOPHER'S Stone, it looked pretty cool - and for $20, nto a bad gift for the 8 year old in your life (or yourself, right?)) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 12 15:00:50 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:00:50 +0100 Subject: Merchandise and reading deprevation Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3300 Heidi told us about the HP board game: "Full of magical twists and action cards that reveal hidden passageways on the board. Boardgame based on original Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone." It looks quite good. I like some of the mugs. The Hedwig one is especially cool. Which brings me to a question. How much is 15 oz? I do not know conversion rates for this into UK pints or litres. Does anyone else? Peg wrote: "if anyone is moved to try this, I'd be interested in how the experience went for you. For me, the whole week was an unpleasant and rather unnerving, but eye-opening experience." >From the extract that you gave us it seems it is depravation of all input that they ask you to try. This seems an amazing idea. I think I would go mad very quickly. Of course, as I have little artistic ability, I doubt the whole scheme would do any good. Simon From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Oct 12 15:39:58 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:39:58 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups]ounces to liters References: Message-ID: <001101c03462$b1ab3240$4faf20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3301 > It looks quite good. I like some of the mugs. The Hedwig one is especially > cool. Which brings me to a question. How much is 15 oz? I do not know > conversion rates for this into UK pints or litres. Does anyone else? I'm writing a 5th grade math text so I just happen to have those conversions handy...anyway..I think I figured it right.... 15 ounces = about 0.44 liters That seems about right...duh I have a water bottle here on my desk I just glanced at after I did the calcs... that says 15.5 ounces or 0.5 liters...oh well... carole From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 15:43:18 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Roger) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] How much is 15 oz? Message-ID: <20001012154318.16080.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3302 Let's see. We can buy Coca-cola in 16oz bottles (the smaller ones, there's 20oz out there too). I don't have a bottle hand (I use cans, lol) but perhaps if someone's sitting there, drinking, they can look at the metric equivalent on the front of their bottle? :) (Not certain if they sell those over in the UK!) BTW, my favorite size is 15oz! The more tea you can put into a cup (or hot chocolate in this weather, lol!) the better! Hot chocolate for reading PoA and shivering with the Dementors? Dee ===== :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From mmarth at peoplepc.com Thu Oct 12 16:05:32 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:05:32 -0000 Subject: Scholastic Interview Message-ID: <8s4ngc+3vmb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3303 There will be a live interview with Rowling on October 16, 2000 at 12:30 - 1:30 p.m. ET at the Scholastic site. This must be her week for interviews as this is the third one I know of this week! Martha From stevekimmel at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 16:41:24 2000 From: stevekimmel at yahoo.com (stevekimmel at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:41:24 -0000 Subject: Why Fudge gets the Dementors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s4pjk+g6pp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3304 Fudge may be the innocent that most of you seem to want to believe. I don't think so. Consider this line of reasoning. Assume that Deatheaters are willing to lie. So I don't put much stock in the deatheaters saying they don't know who the others are at their trials. In Goblet of fire we have many occasions when it appears the deatheaters know each other. They acted in concert at the World Cup. The ones at Hogwarts seem well aware of the others who have a problem with the black mark on their arm. At the end several of them form a circle around Voldemort and he calls them by name. It is the wizards and witches who are not deatheaters who don't know whos is and who is not. It follows then that the deatheaters knew that Sirius Black was not one of them and that Peter Pettigrew was not. The deatheaters would not view the confrontation between Black and Pettigrew as being innocent Pettigrew chasing evil Black. They know better. They know Pettigrew was one of their own. They think Black has hunted down and killed Pettigrew. Thus Black is a dangerous enemy. They aren't too worried about him as long as he is being safely held by their natural allies, the dementors of Azkaban. Once he escapes, though, he is a threat to them all especially since Voldemort was "gone" and unable to assist them. Black needs to be eliminated as soon as possible, preferably in a way that would be acceptable or at least not draw attention to them. So Fudge calls the dementors to administer the kiss to Sirius. Later, the plan with Mad Eye Moody is foiled and an insider, Barty Jr, is telling the enemy, Dumbledore and others, everything he knows. He is now a serious threat that must be eliminated. Preferably in a way that doesn't call attention to the deatheaters. Fudge shows up with the deatheaters natural ally, the dementors, and has him administer the kiss. Whenever the deatheaters need somebody eliminated in a way that doesn't draw attention to them, it is Cornelius Fudge who shows up with a dementor. Add to that his casting aspersions on Harry's credibility. Add to that his ludicrous defense of everyone Harry identifies as having been there with Voldemort. Add to that his unwillingness to cooperate with Dumbledore, his desire to suppress the fact Voldemort has returned. I think the case that Cornelius Fudge is a follower of Voldemort is pretty strong. Cornelius Fudge gets the Dementors because he is sufficiently unskilled at magic... perhaps is even a squib... because that is how he carries out his master's will. From joym999 at aol.com Thu Oct 12 17:33:32 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:33:32 -0000 Subject: Merchandise and reading deprevation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s4slc+ubve@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3305 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Heidi told us about the HP board game: "Full of magical twists and action > cards that reveal hidden passageways on the board. Boardgame based on > original Harry Potter And The Sorcerer's Stone." > > It looks quite good. I like some of the mugs. There is also a trivia game, which I though looked more interesting. The Hedwig one is especially > cool. Which brings me to a question. How much is 15 oz? I do not know > conversion rates for this into UK pints or litres. Does anyone else? > The 15 oz. mugs are slightly less than a pint, which is 16 oz. About half a liter, anyway - a BIG cup of coffee or tea. > Peg wrote: "if anyone is moved to try this, I'd be interested in how the > experience went for you. For me, the whole week was an unpleasant and > rather unnerving, but eye-opening experience." > > From the extract that you gave us it seems it is depravation of all input > that they ask you to try. This seems an amazing idea. I think I would go mad > very quickly. Of course, as I have little artistic ability, I doubt the > whole scheme would do any good. Sounds like torture to me. This no reading for a week thing sounds like a contrived way to cause yourself some spiritual pain. I know pain is supposed to be good for the soul, but couldnt you just drop an anvil on your toe and get it over with quicker? -- Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Thu Oct 12 17:50:32 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:50:32 -0000 Subject: Reading; somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <20001012124329.2316.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <8s4tl8+1ur3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3306 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Wed, 11 October 2000, Peg Kerr wrote: > > >And you know, the author of _The Artist's Way_ has a point. Voicelady, I think, has uttered a gentle complaint that I'm not working on my next book. Part of the problem is that I spend too much time reading this listserve! > > Actually, I *wasn't* complaining, but now that you've mentioned it... > > Really, people, if you haven't read her books yet, PLEASE do so! Trust me - they're ab fab! > > voicelady > I am afraid that it was me, Peg, who uttered those *gentle complaints*. Actually, Im not afraid, (or all that gentle): Damnit, Peg, get to work on that sequel to Emerald House Rising!!!! . Voicelady is absolutely right, you are a wonderful author. And while we are on the topic: While I read novels, mysteries and everything else, I like sci-fi and fantasy the best. The problem is that so much of it is poorly written. A lot of the fantasy is just mawkish or dull medieval-ish fairy tales with an endless parade of dragons and elves, LOTR rip-offs. And a lot of the sci-fi, especially by the male authors, is macho, get the girl, kill the alien, Tom Clancy in space crap. I find that sci-fi/fantasy by female authors is the most likely to be good but that it is really hard to find stuff I like. We have discussed on this list many times suggestions for other stuff to read in those endless, almost-a-full- year in between when you finish the third reading of the latest HP book and when the next one comes out. But the stuff we have discussed so far is mostly kid or kid-oriented books. I am tired of Brian Jacques little mousies and the Chrestomanci books take about 5 minutes to read. Does anyone have any recommendations for a desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like LeGuin, Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern Dragons so many times I feel like they live next door.) -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 12 18:35:09 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:35:09 +0100 Subject: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3307 Steve wrote: "It follows then that the deatheaters knew that Sirius Black was not one of them and that Peter Pettigrew was not. The deatheaters would not view the confrontation between Black and Pettigrew as being innocent Pettigrew chasing evil Black." There is the possibility that Pettigrew is not a DE. He may be working for Voldemort, and be a spy for him, but this in no way makes him a DE. >From what Black says about his time in Azkaban, it is clear that some of Voldemort's supporters knew that Pettigrew was working for him. Steve wrote: "In Goblet of fire we have many occasions when it appears the deatheaters know each other. They acted in concert at the World Cup." It is not clear how many of these were DE's. In the post game euphoria, many had been drinking and when they saw someone attacking the muggles they may have joined in, even though they are not DE's. It would have only needed a couple of actual DE's to start the incident and after that they could just run off. Joywitch wrote: "The 15 oz. mugs are slightly less than a pint, which is 16 oz. About half a liter, anyway - a BIG cup of coffee or tea." Thanks to all that helped me with this volume problem. In the UK a pint is 0.568 litres and is divided into 20 fluid ounces. I was pretty sure that things were different in the US and so decided to ask. My usual mug (for tea - I do not drink coffee) is about this size and I also have an even bigger mug for when I need a large volume of tea. Simon From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 12 18:47:25 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:47:25 -0000 Subject: Reading; somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <8s4tl8+1ur3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s50vt+qqav@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3308 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations for a > desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like LeGuin, > Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern Dragons > so many times I feel like they live next door.) > > -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read May I recommend the following. They are fantasy, but definitely not LOTR clones. The Many-Colored Land and its sequels, by Julian May anything by R.A. MacAvoy, especially The Book of Kells and the Damiano series. Also, The Satanic Mill, by Ottfried Preussler Pippin From skywalker1 at ibm.net Thu Oct 12 19:10:13 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:10:13 -0000 Subject: book/movie In-Reply-To: <20001012090530.19424.qmail@web2003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8s52al+b5sc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3309 I also think that the movie will not destroy the magic of the book. However, I believe it can't possibly capture the wonder or imagination as well. Listening to all of your comparisons I can't help but add my own ... I absolutely loved the book 'Jurassic Park: The Lost World' but thought its story was essentially mutilated by Spielberg's movie. My point is I still love the book and see its characters and locations in my mind rather than those of the movie. From the images I've seen though, it appears the movie is going to stay pretty true and for that, I'm grateful. Brian From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 12 19:12:48 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:12:48 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s52fg+sv3e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3310 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" < simon.branford at h...> wrote: > Steve wrote: "It follows then that the deatheaters knew that Sirius Black > was not one of them and that Peter Pettigrew was not. The deatheaters would > not view the confrontation between Black and Pettigrew as being innocent > Pettigrew chasing evil Black." > > There is the possibility that Pettigrew is not a DE. He may be working for > Voldemort, and be a spy for him, but this in no way makes him a DE. Pettigrew is a DE. He has the dark mark. Voldemort uses it to summon the other DEs to him at the end of GOF. Voldemort's action in naming some of the Deatheaters aloud is consistent with secrecy. He appears to name only those who have already been publicly identified, whether imprisoned in Azkaban, or found guilty but excused as having acted under the Imperius curse like Malfoy and Avery. If Fudge were a DE there would have been a gap in the circle for him, since he was at Hogwarts and therefore unable to respond to the summons. If Voldemort organized his followers on a cell system and Karkaroff and Snape were part of the same cell, then most of the DEs known to Karkaroff could have been identified by Snape when he defected, which would explain why Karkaroff had so few new names for the tribunal. Pippin From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Oct 12 19:16:08 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:16:08 +0200 Subject: Movie uniforms - A Question and a suggestion Message-ID: <007801c03480$e295cbe0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3311 Hello, I saw the movie stills with the Hogwarts students in uniform the other day (thanks to whoever put them up in the Files section!), and I remember someone asking how they had the House-color sweater trim before they were Sorted - my suggestion is that maybe the trim is purple (which I'm guessing is the Hogwarts color, seeing as it's the color of the letter's seal) until they get Sorted, and the trim magically changes color? Also, I'm wondering - does it really make sense to have variations in uniform for the different houses? Because I'm assuming that by the time we get up to CoS, Harry and Co. have thorough experience in identifying Houses, even if the colors might be really close (i.e. Ravenclaw and Slytherin) - so how come they mistook Penelope Clearwater, who would have Ravenclaw blue trim, for a Slytherin during the Polyjuice incident? Rather inane post, I know - but I was wondering. ~Firebolt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Oct 12 19:22:57 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:22:57 +0200 Subject: German magazine with Harry Potter pics References: <20001011220945.22816.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <007b01c03481$d557cae0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3312 This is sort of a long shot, but does anyone here have a subscription to the German (or German language) magazine Die Sterne, or have otherwise access to it? Because the recent issue had this whole thing on HP with a *lot* of illustrations - everything from Harry and the second task to Filch and Mrs. Norris. If you've seen the German cover illustrations, they're in the same style. Unfortunately, I can't take the school library copy out, and so can't scan it - I was hoping someone else on the list could. ~Firebolt From skywalker1 at ibm.net Thu Oct 12 19:41:04 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:41:04 -0000 Subject: Sirius' motorcycle Message-ID: <8s544g+dfsp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3315 Hello everyone, I was listening to PoA in the car this morning and something caught my ear. Hagrid says that he was sent to James and Lily's house to retrieve Harry and, while he was there, Sirius arrived on his flying motorcycle. The statement I can't quite figure out is that Sirius gives his bike to Hagrid and tells him that he's not going to need it anymore. Why didn't he want his bike? It seems to me that it was more than just wanting Harry to get to AD as soon as possible. Since he was innocent and had no reason at the time to believe he would be framed for the murders, wouldn't he still want it? On top of this, Hagrid mentions how much he knew Sirius loved that bike. Now I remember in SS/PS that Hagrid tells AD that he has to get the bike back to Sirius. I'm assuming he didn't feel right keeping the bike regardless of Sirius' words about not wanting it. Any thoughts? From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 12 19:49:36 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:49:36 -0000 Subject: OT: Metric-to-Imperial Conversions Message-ID: <8s54kg+39gm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3316 I'm basing this on how US pharmacists do the measures. 30 milliliters (mL) = 1 fl. oz 15 milliliters (mL) = 1 tablespoon 5 milliliters (mL) = 1 teaspoon So, 15 fl. oz = 450 milliliters (mL) Also, the UK pint-measure is(was?) 20 fl. oz. The US pint-measure is 16 oz. So, 15 fl. oz is 3/4 of a UK pint. :-) Milz From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Thu Oct 12 19:52:21 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:52:21 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lots of Topics References: <8s3hn9+2e9m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <017201c03485$f1112020$0b47063e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3317 ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: > Voldemort killed and tortured a lot of people. The terror was in > the uncertainty -- who would be next? Anyone was vulnerable. > Voldemort was "taking over" according to Sirius Black. No one was > sure who could be trusted. Hogwarts was a small island of safety > (like Britain in WWII) besieged, surrounded. Island of safety? Tell that to Coventry.... Alix From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 12 19:56:03 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:56:03 -0000 Subject: Sirius' motorcycle In-Reply-To: <8s544g+dfsp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s550j+b7eg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3318 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brian " wrote: > Hello everyone, > I was listening to PoA in the car this morning and something > caught my ear. Hagrid says that he was sent to James and Lily's > house to retrieve Harry and, while he was there, Sirius arrived on > his flying motorcycle. The statement I can't quite figure out is > that Sirius gives his bike to Hagrid and tells him that he's not > going to need it anymore. Why didn't he want his bike? It seems to > me that it was more than just wanting Harry to get to AD as soon as > possible. Since he was innocent and had no reason at the time to > believe he would be framed for the murders, wouldn't he still want > it? On top of this, Hagrid mentions how much he knew Sirius loved > that bike. Now I remember in SS/PS that Hagrid tells AD that he has > to get the bike back to Sirius. I'm assuming he didn't feel right > keeping the bike regardless of Sirius' words about not wanting it. > Any thoughts? Also in SS/PS Hagrid tells Dumbledore and McGonagall that he *borrowed* the motorcycle from Sirius Black when he appears on Privet Drive. He didn't tell them that Black gave it to him. And you're correct that Hagrid says he has to return the bike to "young Sirius Black". Could it be that the stress of the situation overwhelmed Hagrid and he initially misunderstood Sirius? :-) Milz From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 12 19:52:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:52:34 -0500 Subject: Int'l Wizard Govt Message-ID: <39E61682.757A9F62@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3319 Hi -- Working on the Wizarding World -- Government FAQ, and I have a question for the group. I could have *sworn* that I read (or heard) some reference in GoF to an International Confederation of Wizards (which is slightly different than the Int'l Federation of Wizards that Lori created for PoU). Now, of course, I cannot find the reference, and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm making it all up. I notice that Steve's Lexicon has no mention of this body, so it's coming even more possible that I made that up. If any of you know anything about this, please post & put me out of my misery. Thanks!! Penny From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 21:06:17 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 07:06:17 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A brazen hussy moment . . . References: <39E53944.BEA240E5@ibm.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3320 Go Peg! - do you think you could speak to her on the basis that your books sat next to each other on the list (one can dream ...) storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups ; ParadigmOfUncertainty Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A brazen hussy moment . . . Here's my own close encounter with JK Rowling. After much hesitancy (and after consulting with Penny to see if it would be ok) I've decided to mention it. Specifically, there's a website called SF Site, which is the home site for a number of the science fiction magazines and organizations in my field. In their Best of 1999 list, they named Rowling's _Prisoner of Azkaban_ the third best science fiction or fantasy book of the year, and my _The Wild Swans_ was named as the fourth. See: http://sfsite.com//columns/best00.htm The original review that they based their Year's Best 10 list on is the best review I've ever received in my career. It's at: http://sfsite.com//07a/wild60.htm (Warning--it contains spoilers.) And hey, as long as I'm being a brazen hussy, I'll also mention that I just found out that _The Wild Swans_ was a co-winner of the 2000 Gaylactic Network Spectrum Awards, for best novel of the year. (The Spectrum Award was created to honor works in science fiction, fantasy and horror that deal positively with gay characters, themes and issues.) See http://www.lambdasf.org/spectrum/ Peg eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 21:02:08 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:02:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT References: <8s4tl8+1ur3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008601c0348f$b065c080$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3321 Have you tried Katherine Kurtz, The Deryni Series or Weis and Hickman, Dragonlance (Raistlin again, yes!) Those are a bit more adult (although Deryni is multi-leveled--I started it at age 14, and still read it today, seeing the "other" things that weren't in it before!). I still have to weed through my garden of books... ----- Original Message ----- From: Joywitch To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:50 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Wed, 11 October 2000, Peg Kerr wrote: > > >And you know, the author of _The Artist's Way_ has a point. Voicelady, I think, has uttered a gentle complaint that I'm not working on my next book. Part of the problem is that I spend too much time reading this listserve! > > Actually, I *wasn't* complaining, but now that you've mentioned it... > > Really, people, if you haven't read her books yet, PLEASE do so! Trust me - they're ab fab! > > voicelady > I am afraid that it was me, Peg, who uttered those *gentle complaints*. Actually, Im not afraid, (or all that gentle): Damnit, Peg, get to work on that sequel to Emerald House Rising!!!! . Voicelady is absolutely right, you are a wonderful author. And while we are on the topic: While I read novels, mysteries and everything else, I like sci-fi and fantasy the best. The problem is that so much of it is poorly written. A lot of the fantasy is just mawkish or dull medieval-ish fairy tales with an endless parade of dragons and elves, LOTR rip-offs. And a lot of the sci-fi, especially by the male authors, is macho, get the girl, kill the alien, Tom Clancy in space crap. I find that sci-fi/fantasy by female authors is the most likely to be good but that it is really hard to find stuff I like. We have discussed on this list many times suggestions for other stuff to read in those endless, almost-a-full- year in between when you finish the third reading of the latest HP book and when the next one comes out. But the stuff we have discussed so far is mostly kid or kid-oriented books. I am tired of Brian Jacques little mousies and the Chrestomanci books take about 5 minutes to read. Does anyone have any recommendations for a desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like LeGuin, Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern Dragons so many times I feel like they live next door.) -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 21:24:15 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 07:24:15 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius' motorcycle References: <8s544g+dfsp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3322 ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 5:41 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius' motorcycle Brian said "The statement I can't quite figure out is that Sirius gives his bike to Hagrid and tells him that he's not going to need it anymore." I think it is because it is now clear to him that Peter is the trator and he intends to track him down and kill him (possibly expecting to be killed in the porcess?) "Since he was innocent and had no reason at the time to believe he would be framed for the murders, wouldn't he still want it? " But I think he did expect to be framed for the murders because *everyone* (dubledore) know he was the Potter's secret keeper. When he pursaded James and Lily to change to Peter (IIRC) he also told them not to tell anyone of this decision (possably in an effort to protect the obviuorsly weaker Peter - I think he was trying to use himself as a decoy. Unfortately it back fired *really* badly.) "Now I remember in SS/PS that Hagrid tells AD that he has to get the bike back to Sirius. I'm assuming he didn't feel right keeping the bike regardless of Sirius' words about not wanting it." I think you are right about this - or maybe he didn't take Sirus at his word - put it down the grief or what ever (would this require more insight that we usually credit Hagrid with?) storm eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 21:16:36 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:16:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius' motorcycle References: <8s544g+dfsp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b001c03491$b577bf40$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3323 My solution is that Sirius knew he was going to jail--for the murder of Peter. HE knew who had betrayed James and Lily, and he was going to take the law into his own hands, hence the street scene. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:41 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius' motorcycle Hello everyone, I was listening to PoA in the car this morning and something caught my ear. Hagrid says that he was sent to James and Lily's house to retrieve Harry and, while he was there, Sirius arrived on his flying motorcycle. The statement I can't quite figure out is that Sirius gives his bike to Hagrid and tells him that he's not going to need it anymore. Why didn't he want his bike? It seems to me that it was more than just wanting Harry to get to AD as soon as possible. Since he was innocent and had no reason at the time to believe he would be framed for the murders, wouldn't he still want it? On top of this, Hagrid mentions how much he knew Sirius loved that bike. Now I remember in SS/PS that Hagrid tells AD that he has to get the bike back to Sirius. I'm assuming he didn't feel right keeping the bike regardless of Sirius' words about not wanting it. Any thoughts? eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From summers.65 at osu.edu Thu Oct 12 21:24:34 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:24:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Int'l Wizard Govt Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3324 >Hi -- > >Working on the Wizarding World -- Government FAQ, and I have a question >for the group. I could have *sworn* that I read (or heard) some >reference in GoF to an International Confederation of Wizards (which is >slightly different than the Int'l Federation of Wizards that Lori >created for PoU). Now, of course, I cannot find the reference, and I'm >beginning to wonder if I'm making it all up. I notice that Steve's >Lexicon has no mention of this body, so it's coming even more possible >that I made that up. > >If any of you know anything about this, please post & put me out of my >misery. Thanks!! > >Penny > The body in the books is the International Confederation of Wizards. When I started writing PoU this is what I meant to refer to and I just got the name wrong because I was too lazy to go look it up. I've been since hoping that no one would notice. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "Animal Dreams" by Barbara Kingsolver *************************************************** From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 21:34:52 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 07:34:52 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs References: <8s52fg+sv3e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3325 "If Fudge were a DE there would have been a gap in the circle for him, since he was at Hogwarts and therefore unable to respond to the summons." but there were gaps in the circle, one of them was for Volde's most loyal follower (can't remember the exsact quote - don't have GoF to hand). at the time I assumed it was Barty Jnr but that would just be JKR for you wouldn't it? also I don't remember if Volde got around the whole circle - or only part way around, if only part way then there could have been other gaps - not revealed to us. storm eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 12 20:25:19 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:25:19 -0500 Subject: British Govt Question Message-ID: <39E61E2F.B96972AC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3326 Hi -- Trust me -- this is reasonably on-topic. Can anyone (especially one of our British members) point me to a website that outlines, discusses &/or charts in fairly simplistic terms the organization of the British govt? I think this will be helpful for the Wizarding World -- Govt FAQ, as I'm sure JKR is taking much of the MoM from existing British govt models. I must be the world's worst web-surfer, but I've been trying off & on for weeks to find something basic & useful for this purpose. You'd think there would be sites out there for students doing basic term-paper research. :--) It's been a long, long time since I studied the British govt system (and while I know the American system is modeled somewhat on that system & I do know the rudimentary basics, I'd really like a website as a go-by). Thanks again! Penny From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 20:33:59 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:33:59 -0000 Subject: hubris In-Reply-To: <39E32261.E84A622D@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s577n+bb2o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3327 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: (Responing to an old post) I know what you were thinking of- Hamartia. (I really do hope that this is correct, I couldn't find the definition anywhere but I am still fairly certain...) And yes, this is what I thought of when I read the part about V. in GoF. It also seems that Harry's sparing of Wormtail in PoA was a kind of opposite of this...an event that leads to the charecter's triumph- not downall. But is there a term for this... Hope this helps... Scott > > > Since we were talking about the 7 deadly sins as a framework for > > discussing HP, thought it would be interesting to discuss it in terms > > of Greek thoughts... > > Susan, I've been going mad trying to remember a term....the thing that > Voldemort has done, thinking that taking Harry's blood to reanimate would > make him invincible, when it will really be his downfall. Even if he knows > there's a chance of it leading to his defeat, he's too sure of his own power > to entertain the chance, and thus leads to his own downfall (or so I think > will happen). I've been thinking of it as hubris, overweening pride, but I > don't think it's the right term and I've forgotten all my Greek drama stuff. > > --Amanda From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 12 20:34:50 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:34:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Int'l Wizard Govt References: Message-ID: <39E6206A.9EC2830C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3328 Hi -- summers.65 at osu.edu wrote: > The body in the books is the International Confederation of Wizards. > When I started writing PoU this is what I meant to refer to and I just > got the name wrong because I was too lazy to go look it up. I've been > since hoping that no one would notice. Don't suppose you have a reference do you? If you knew it basically from when you started PoU, it must be somewhere other than GoF???? Thanks. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 12 20:38:50 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:38:50 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Int'l Wizard Govt In-Reply-To: <39E6206A.9EC2830C@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3329 Lori wrote: "The body in the books is the International Confederation of Wizards. When I started writing PoU this is what I meant to refer to and I just got the name wrong because I was too lazy to go look it up. I've been since hoping that no one would notice." Penny wrote: "Don't suppose you have a reference do you? If you knew it basically from when you started PoU, it must be somewhere other than GoF????" It is in chapter 4 of PS. It is in Dumbledore's titles. "(Order of Merlin, First Class, Grand Sorc., Chf. Warlock, Supreme Mugwump, International Confed. of Wizards)" Simon From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 12 20:46:06 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:46:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT References: <8s50vt+qqav@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E6230E.1C43F0C1@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3330 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > Does anyone have any recommendations for a > > desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like LeGuin, > > Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern Dragons > > so many times I feel like they live next door.) > > > > -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read > May I recommend the following. They are fantasy, but definitely > not LOTR clones. > The Many-Colored Land and its sequels, by Julian May > anything by R.A. MacAvoy, especially The Book of Kells and the Damiano > series. I will more or less second Pippin's recommendation about the Julian May books, although I began with the second part of the series - Surveilance & Intervention, followed by the Galactic Milieu trilogy, which I liked a lot more. It's much nicer when Marc Remillard is a good guy, not a megamaniacal psychopath. He'd probably get on well with Draco (the jkr canon draco, I mean), and Lori's PoU Harry would have a great afternoon drinking with Jack sans le Corpse (did I spell that right?) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 12 20:47:35 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:47:35 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs References: <8s52fg+sv3e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E62367.9B005094@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3331 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" < > simon.branford at h...> wrote: > > Steve wrote: "It follows then that the deatheaters knew that Sirius Black > > was not one of them and that Peter Pettigrew was not. The deatheaters would > > not view the confrontation between Black and Pettigrew as being innocent > > Pettigrew chasing evil Black." > > > > There is the possibility that Pettigrew is not a DE. He may be working for > > Voldemort, and be a spy for him, but this in no way makes him a DE. > > Pettigrew is a DE. He has the dark mark. Voldemort uses it to summon > the other DEs to him at the end of GOF. But would it have been possible for Wormtail to have been branded by Voldemot in his semi-bodied state during GoF (or the summer before) and not before the potters were killed? I guess we don't know if Voldemort had the power to do that, but it is entirely possible that Wormtail was not branded before Voldemort fell. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 21:04:58 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:04:58 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s591q+fhpr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3332 (Responding to an old post..) I don't think that Fudge is a supporter of Voldemort. He is simply in denal. Catorgerizing Fudge as a death eater (or allied w/ V.) is just to black and white for the JKR universe. Where does "Fudge" come from? Possibly his tendency to fudge things up? CF may be against Dumbly but that DOES NOT mean he is automatically bad. He simply loves his power and is too blinded by self- ritechessness (misspelled) to see that he isn't very good at his job. In the process of his denial he might aid Voldemort in some accidental way, but I think he is (somehow) on our side. Scott -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, stevekimmel at y... wrote: > Cornelius Fudge ? Minister of Magic > > When you react to a revelation about a character with disbelief the > author has failed in characterization. The proper response should be, > "Oh course. Why didn't I see it all along?" With Mad Eye Moody, > Rowling succeeds in this characterization task. > > At the end of Goblet of Fire, I didn't believe the actions of > Cornelius Fudge. They were too out of character for what we had seen > before. For me, Rowling's characterization of Fudge was a dismal > failure. Because of the subtlety of the approach, Cornelius Fudge's > transformation from vaguely amusing bungler to, perhaps, a running > dog lackey of Voldemort is less convincing than any of the others. > Fudge's performance at the end of Goblet of Fire is so reminiscent of > Peter Pettigrew's and so irrational than I have concluded that he is > really a follower of Voldemort if not a full blown deatheater. > > Fudge is first mentioned in Philosopher's Stone although he does not > actually put in an appearance until Chamber of Secrets. Hagrid > mentions him while taking Harry shopping in Diagon Alley. They wanted > Dumbledore to be Minister of Magic but he would never leave Hogwarts > so Fudge got the job. > > Question 1: Who are they? Is this some variation on a Voldemort plot > to move Dumbledore away from Hogwarts? > > Question 2: How does someone get to be the Minister of Magic? > Apparently not because of your abilities. > > Hagrid describes Fudge as being a bungler who sends owls everyday > asking Dumbledore for advice. Although Fudge is not explicitly > identified as the sender, there is an owl sent from the Ministry of > Magic calling Dumbledore away at the critical moment when Quirrell is > going to make his attempt on the stone. Had Fudge been identified as > the sender, then perhaps I would be more willing to accept Fudge's > "flip" to Voldemort's side. > > Question 3: If it was Fudge who called Dumbledore away, how did he > know Quirrell was going to make his attempt that night? Voldemort was > so weak that it is doubtful he could have informed Fudge by magic. > > We actually meet Fudge for the first time in Chamber of Secrets. The > chamber has been reopened and students are being paralyzed and Fudge > comes to Hogwarts to send Hagrid off to Azkaban. At the time, we > entertained the notion that Hagrid might actually be the cause of the > problem. In retrospect, if Fudge was a follower of Voldemort's, he > would probably have known that it wasn't Hagrid at all. > > Question 4: In retrospect, why did Fudge seek to send Hagrid away and > the same time Voldemort's other follower, Lucious Malfoy, is trying > to rid Hogwarts of Dumbledore? Is Hagrid more important than we have > previously thought? > > Our most extensive contact with Fudge comes in Prisoner of Azkaban. > It is Fudge who meets Harry when he steps off the knight bus and sets > him up at the Inn. Presumably he knew the truth about Sirius Black > and knew that Sirius was actually not a threat to Harry. Presumably > his actions were consistent toward eliminating another foe of > Voldemort's. > > Question 5: Go back and reread that section. If Fudge is really a > follower of Voldemort and Black, were his responses to Harry > appropriate? > > By the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, Fudge has grown from being a > bungler to an officious twit. > > At the beginning of Goblet of Fire he is still the friendly, fatherly > type toward Harry though prone to officious prissiness. At the end > though, we see him defending everyone Harry mentions as a Deatheater, > casting aspersions on Harry's reliability and refusing to go along > with Dumbledore's plans to thwart Voldemort. > > Question 6: Is there an explanation of Fudge's actions other than his > being a follower of Voldemort? > > Do you believe his actions? I don't. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 12 21:28:21 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:28:21 -0000 Subject: Unspeakables? In-Reply-To: <8s3i92+usc9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5adl+7vra@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3333 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Please be patient with me, but in one of the books, someone > is talking about the different departments in the Ministry of > Magic and the different roles that wizards play whin the M of M. > The Aurors are mentioned. > Then there are wizards/witches who are the Mysterious? the > Unspeakables? Does anyone remember? And what do we think they > might do? > > Susan They were mentioned in GoF. It's called the Department of Mysteries. No one knows for sure what DoM does. IMO, it's probably a combination of the FBI,CIA, NSA (National Security Agency), KGB, etc. :-) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 21:36:11 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:36:11 -0000 Subject: Int'l Wizard Govt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s5asb+f1eq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3334 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > It is in chapter 4 of PS. It is in Dumbledore's titles. > > "(Order of Merlin, First Class, Grand Sorc., Chf. Warlock, Supreme Mugwump, > International Confed. of Wizards)" Have to ask it, as I've been wondering about this for almost a year now. *What* is a Mugwump? --Ebony (happy b/c she convinced another anti-HP parent to allow her child to read the book...) From skywalker1 at ibm.net Thu Oct 12 21:39:38 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:39:38 -0000 Subject: Sirius' motorcycle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s5b2q+6us3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3335 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" wrote: > > Brian said > "The statement I can't quite figure out is > that Sirius gives his bike to Hagrid and tells him that he's not going to need it anymore." > > I think it is because it is now clear to him that Peter is the trator and he intends to track him down and kill him (possibly expecting to be killed in the porcess?) > I guess that's possible but hasn't it been mentioned that Peter was by far the weaker wizard so wouldn't Sirius believe that he would have a pretty good chance of catching him without being permanently injured? Maybe he thought he might be locked up for killing Peter but IIRC the Ministry (Barty Crouch Sr.) at the time was overreacting by sentencing people without trials so Sirius would have good reason to expect to be let off. From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 12 21:49:03 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:49:03 -0000 Subject: Sirius' motorcycle In-Reply-To: <8s5b2q+6us3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5bkf+p6gi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3336 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brian " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" > wrote: > > > > Brian said > > "The statement I can't quite figure out is > > that Sirius gives his bike to Hagrid and tells him that he's not > going to need it anymore." > > > > > I think it is because it is now clear to him that Peter is the > trator and he intends to track him down and kill him (possibly > expecting to be killed in the porcess?) > > > I guess that's possible but hasn't it been mentioned that Peter > was by far the weaker wizard so wouldn't Sirius believe that he would > have a pretty good chance of catching him without being permanently > injured? Maybe he thought he might be locked up for killing Peter > but IIRC the Ministry (Barty Crouch Sr.) at the time was overreacting > by sentencing people without trials so Sirius would have good reason > to expect to be let off. I see Sirius as darn near suicidal with grief over the death of the Potters and his failure to protect them. It is typical of someone contemplating suicide to give away their most treasured possessions. Pippin From joym999 at aol.com Thu Oct 12 22:23:32 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:23:32 -0000 Subject: British Govt Question In-Reply-To: <39E61E2F.B96972AC@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8s5dl4+2q1p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3337 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Trust me -- this is reasonably on-topic. Can anyone (especially one of > our British members) point me to a website that outlines, discusses &/or > charts in fairly simplistic terms the organization of the British govt? > I think this will be helpful for the Wizarding World -- Govt FAQ, as I'm > sure JKR is taking much of the MoM from existing British govt models. I > must be the world's worst web-surfer, but I've been trying off & on for > weeks to find something basic & useful for this purpose. You'd think > there would be sites out there for students doing basic term-paper > research. :--) It's been a long, long time since I studied the British > govt system (and while I know the American system is modeled somewhat on > that system & I do know the rudimentary basics, I'd really like a > website as a go-by). > One thing I was wondering about, Penny, is that maybe the Ministry of Magic is PART of the British government. After all, it is called the MINISTRY, which is the same as what we in the US would call a DEPARTMENT, like the Department of Education. If there were a totally independent, international wizard government, wouldnt it have a name like the United Wizard Nations or something? (Not that this really has any relationship to your request for info about the British government). -- Joywitch From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 12 22:24:39 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:24:39 -0500 Subject: Hermione & JKR Message-ID: <39E63A26.EDD0B45C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3338 Hi -- Okay, this got *zero* response over on the PoU group, so I'm trying it out here in the hopes that someone (anyone!) will engage in conversation. :--) (So . . . if you're on PoU, you've read this before btw). This discussion was prompted by Ebony's query whether fanfic authors "over-do" Hermione. I'm more & more intrigued by JKR's statements about Hermione in an interview with the London Times entitled "Harry and Me." http://www.times-archive.co.uk/onlinespecials/features/harrypotter/story18.html (Part 1) http://www.times-archive.co.uk/onlinespecials/features/harrypotter/index2.html (Part 2) Okay, so, what does she say? First, she says some of the standard stuff we've all heard before about how Hermione is very much herself as a young girl -- swotty, bookwormish, a worrywart. The interviewer then says that she's not so sure that JKR herself has loosened up as much as she proclaims. She says "she (JKR) defends Hermione pretty fiercely too: 'My (JKR speaking) American editor says that I am mean to her (Hermione) because she is me. But I don't think that I am mean to her. I love her dearly.'" The interviewer says "But Hermione tries so damn hard." JKR responds with "I understand where that is coming from. It comes from believing yourself to be plain and feeling yourself to be no good at anything else so you've got to achieve something. I completely understand Hermione and I really love her and I don't want to depict her as a feisty little . . . " She breaks off and begins to mutter that "it" really really irritates her. The interviewer asks what "it" is. JKR says: "What irritates me is that I am constantly, increasingly being asked 'Can we have a strong female character, please?' Like they are ordering a side order of chips. I am thinking, 'Isn't Hermione strong enough for you? She is the most brilliant of the three and they need her. Harry needs her badly." She goes on to say that it would have been completely inappropriate for her (JKR) to have thrown in a few "feisty, gorgeous, brilliant-at-maths and great-at-fixing-cars girls." So, I think we learn a few things more about JKR's feelings about Hermione & about Hermione's place in the series from this interview. We learn that really Hermione isn't *just* a caricature of JKR's younger self as is sometimes intimated. She really *is* JKR. I know Ebony has mentioned this to me before, but there can really be little doubt that Hermione is very much JKR's surrogate in this series. I'll leave it to Ebony and others to explore more fully what exactly we can take away from this new-to-me revelation that Hermione isn't really just loosely based on JKR -- she's very much JKR herself in many respects from the sounds of it (it's been too many years since my own English major days I'm afraid for me to come up with all the jargon). It's clear to me from the above statements that JKR cares very much about Hermione's character -- perhaps as much or more than she cares for her hero, Harry. I've always sort of shied away from referring to Hermione as the "heroine." But, I'm starting to think more & more that maybe she *is* the heroine. There's certainly some strong support for this notion in that interview (IMO). The one thing I've actually agreed with so far in the Schaefer book on the HP Series is Schaefer's statement that Hermione's name is awfully close to the word heroine in fact. Alot of the Schafer book is rubbish, but I did pause at that statement. Then, when I re-read this interview for the first time since June or early July -- I was very struck by these statements & their implications. This seems particularly relevant given our past discussions about whether Hermione is a strong female character or not. So . . . is she the heroine or not? Penny From Ellimist15 at aol.com Thu Oct 12 22:34:04 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:34:04 EDT Subject: Avada Kedavra (was Re: Re: A varied post on Latin) Message-ID: <86.1615f55.2717965d@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3339 Amanda said: > I thought Avada Kedavra was intended to be interpreted as the un-garbled, > original form of the standard "magic word" abracadabra. This might be a > bit of dark humor, that the spell word that the Muggle children use in > making pretend magic is an echo of the most dangerous curse there is in > the wizarding world. It could easily have leaked over; if you were with > your brother in the forest, and disturbed an evil old hermit, and he > cursed your brother dead, you'd probably remember (albeit in garbled form) > the words he used. Such situations could easily have happened, as various > evil wizards went on the rampage (or just got teed off for whatever > reason). And thus would the garbled form, abracadabra, have entered the > Muggle folklore. > > My theory. Thoughts? > --Amanda The word "Abracadabra" was derived from the Hebrew phrase "abreq ad habra", which means "hurl your thunderbolt even unto death". It's kind of a stretch, but it may not just be a coincidence that Harry's scar is in the shape of a thunderbolt (lightning bolt). Plus, the translation includes mention of "death". If you don't buy this theory, then I have another. "Avada" is phonetically similar to "evado", which is Latin for "to become". "Kedavra" is similar to "cadaver". Hence, Avada Kedavra (evado cadaver) could mean "to become a corpse". Thoughts? Ellie Rosenthal http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ From sybylla at netscape.net Thu Oct 12 22:45:03 2000 From: sybylla at netscape.net (Elizabeth Doherty) Date: 12 Oct 00 15:45:03 PDT Subject: Interim reading suggestions Message-ID: <20001012224504.9274.qmail@www0v.netaddress.usa.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3340 Joywitch, I will, naturally, be kicking myself seconds after I send this message because I will have thought of roughly another two dozen suggestions for you, all of which will of course be better than the ones I have here. Off the cuff, though, here are a few: Anything by: Sheri S. Tepper (but I suggest starting with The Family Tree, Grass, or Gibbon's Decline and Fall), Neil Gaiman, Charles de Lint, or Guy Gavriel Kay. -Wyrms or Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card -The Thief of Always or Imajica by Clive Barker (although ToA is more of a young adult book on the face of it) -Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling's modern fairy tale anthologies -Any of Jack Zipes' fairy tale collections -The Armless Maiden, edited by Terri Windling (thematic collection of modern fairy tales dealing with child abuse...sometimes tough going but well worth it) -Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (I wasn't impressed with the last two, but the ones before that were fantastic) -Barbara Hambly's Sun Wolf books (starts with The Ladies of Mandrigyn) -Deerskin by Robin McKinley...I'd actually recommend more by her, but most of it is more young adult -Tam Lin by Pamela Dean (it's got a number of holes in it, but it's worth reading just for the fact that it's such a celebration of literature and it's fun to pick out the allusions...What do they teach them at these schools?) -The Djinn in the Nightingale's Eye by A.S. Byatt Wow...I actually came up with more than I thought I would...Not bad since fantasy & sci fi haven't been my primary reading genre for a while. (Don't get me wrong...I still read a lot of f/sf books...I'm just more into Jane Austen/George Eliot/Julian Barnes/Michael Dorris now...And I strongly recommend to anyone and everyone that the next book you read should be A.S. Byatt's Possession.) Sigh...I really should get back to correcting my sophomores' Macbeth papers, which reminds me of something I've been meaning to ask. Does it seem to anyone else that there is a disproportionate number of teachers on the list? Or is it just that we teachers more often mention our occupation? Take care, all Elizabeth "If your god hates the same people you do, it is a sure sign you have created god in your own image." --Attribution Unknown, please help ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Oct 12 22:54:22 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:54:22 -0000 Subject: Draco cast! Message-ID: <8s5feu+7qm3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3341 Twelve year-old Tom Felton has been cast as Draco Malfoy. See the picture in our Files area. -Jim Flanagan From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 12 23:09:00 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:09:00 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Interim reading suggestions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3342 Ebony - it sounds as if your bookcases mirror my own. I have a few additions: (even though they have that LOTRish feel) - the Shanara series by Terry Brooks; Sharon Shinn's angel series; Gregory MacGuire's books - "Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister" and "Wicked"; David Wingrove's Chung Kuo series just to name a few. And I don't teach - but I *am* a natural teacher. -------------------------------------------------------------- From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 12 23:10:01 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Harry Withdrawl Message-ID: <20001012231001.11962.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3343 So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, completing my HP reading. I had been reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all four books in that time. Now, I have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you get after a major event--a holiday or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I just can't find anything to read that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. I'm trying to finish "The Godfather" for the second time (I like reading books over and over), but it just doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books--over again! Has anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not completley crazy. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 21:29:18 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 07:29:18 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Unspeakables? References: <8s3i92+usc9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3344 Hey Susan, everyone, hmm, I don't remember and I think it in Gof which is still out on loan (I'm not like some of you who have multiple copies of everything - I wish!). but adding to your topic - what about the fellow who is the head of the committe on experimental charms and has the horns LOL! Also IIRC PoU has some description of these seperate departments so any ideas I have I could be taking from outside the cannon. storm (off to work!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 3:30 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Unspeakables? Please be patient with me, but in one of the books, someone is talking about the different departments in the Ministry of Magic and the different roles that wizards play whin the M of M. The Aurors are mentioned. Then there are wizards/witches who are the Mysterious? the Unspeakables? Does anyone remember? And what do we think they might do? Susan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Oct 12 23:39:34 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:39:34 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8rvjcr+eh06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5i3m+437s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3345 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, stevekimmel at y... wrote: > Cornelius Fudge ? Minister of Magic > > When you react to a revelation about a character with disbelief the > author has failed in characterization. The proper response should be, > "Oh course. Why didn't I see it all along?" With Mad Eye Moody, > Rowling succeeds in this characterization task. > > At the end of Goblet of Fire, I didn't believe the actions of > Cornelius Fudge. They were too out of character for what we had seen > before. For me, Rowling's characterization of Fudge was a dismal > failure. Because of the subtlety of the approach, Cornelius Fudge's > transformation from vaguely amusing bungler to, perhaps, a running > dog lackey of Voldemort is less convincing than any of the others. > Fudge's performance at the end of Goblet of Fire is so reminiscent of > Peter Pettigrew's and so irrational than I have concluded that he is > really a follower of Voldemort if not a full blown deatheater. Hmmm. It's interesting that you feel this way. Fudge's flip at the end wasn't such a shock to me. If it had happened at the end of PoA, I would have been much more surprised. I think his solicitousness(?)- -not sure if that's the word I'm searching for, regarding L. Malfoy at the QWC, sort of prepared me for his change at the end. He's a bureaucrat after all, and more decidedly unfit for the position of MoM. OTOH, when learning of Moody's 'true' identity, I COMPLETELY lost my suspension of disbelief, very hard for me to swallow. Through all the previous books, I was totally submersed in this world, absolutely enthralled; but the above twist brought me right out of the story. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed this book just as much as the others, and truthfully, I did not find any inconsistencies in the storyline that don't support the 'not really Moody, but actually Crouch Jr.' thread. No holes as far as I could tell. And, it was consistent with JKR's pattern of the surprise 'whodunnit?' character at the end, but, for whatever reason, this just didn't work for me. As for Fudge, I can't tell yet whether he's really a DE, or just in denial. Someone's suggestion that he may be under the Imperius curse is a good one, and seems very possible to me. Kelley From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 12 23:46:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:46:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT References: <8s50vt+qqav@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E64D41.31596711@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3346 Try the tremendous and often-overlooked trilogy by Guy Gavriel Kay....the titles I remember are "The Summer Tree," "The Darkest Road" (or something), and the other escapes me. But they're the type of dense fantasy that totally involves you and when you finish the book, you can't believe it's not thicker, so much was in there. Summer Tree is book 1, I believe. --Amanda foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > Does anyone have any recommendations for a > > desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like LeGuin, > > Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern Dragons > > so many times I feel like they live next door.) > > > > -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read > May I recommend the following. They are fantasy, but definitely > not LOTR clones. > The Many-Colored Land and its sequels, by Julian May > anything by R.A. MacAvoy, especially The Book of Kells and the Damiano > series. > Also, The Satanic Mill, by Ottfried Preussler > > Pippin > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 12 23:53:40 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:53:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs References: <8s52fg+sv3e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E64F04.AD2F0108@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3347 storm stanford wrote: > "If Fudge were a DE there would have been a gap in the circle for him, since he was at Hogwarts and therefore unable to respond to the summons." > > but there were gaps in the circle, one of them was for Volde's most loyal follower (can't remember the exsact quote - don't have GoF to hand). at the time I assumed it was Barty Jnr but that would just be JKR for you wouldn't it? I thought she was trying to throw us off track by making us think of Snape. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 12 23:57:13 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:57:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sirius' motorcycle References: <8s5b2q+6us3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E64FD9.EF0D0D4E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3348 Brian wrote: > I guess that's possible but hasn't it been mentioned that Peter > was by far the weaker wizard so wouldn't Sirius believe that he would > have a pretty good chance of catching him without being permanently > injured? Maybe he thought he might be locked up for killing Peter > but IIRC the Ministry (Barty Crouch Sr.) at the time was overreacting > by sentencing people without trials so Sirius would have good reason > to expect to be let off. Or maybe the fact that his two best friends had just been murdered, largely due to a misjudgement on his own part, might have affected his thinking a bit and it wasn't the clearest...? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 12 23:59:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British Govt Question References: <8s5dl4+2q1p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E6505E.2E7A8CE9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3349 Joywitch wrote: > > One thing I was wondering about, Penny, is that maybe the Ministry of > Magic is PART of the British government. After all, it is called the > MINISTRY, which is the same as what we in the US would call a > DEPARTMENT, like the Department of Education. I sort of got the impression it was a part of the British government, else why would Fudge have been able to brief the "Muggle Prime Minister" about Black? I assume the wizarding world's existence is a need-to-know thing in the higher circles of Muggle government. --Amanda From lj2d30 at gateway.net Fri Oct 13 00:22:12 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:22:12 -0000 Subject: Chapter 14 Summarization Message-ID: <8s5kjk+1hv9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3350 The Unforgivable Curses In which Harry, Ron, Hermione & the rest of the Gryffindors have their 1st DADA class with Mad-Eye Moody. Moody starts out the class by telling them to put away their books since they won't be needing them and that he has only one year to teach them how to deal with the DA's, since he is here as a special favor to Dumbledore. Then he jumps right into Curses. More specifically the illegal Unforgivable Curses. The Unforgivable Curses are Imperius Curse (total control), the Cruciatus Curse (utter pain), and Avada Kedavra (the killing curse). And Moody demonstrates all of them in class with spiders as victims. Neville, who never volunteeers any information in class outside of Herbology, actually mentions the Cruciatus curse and his reaction to seeing it used on the spider is heartwrenching (even before we the audience knows quite why). After class, Hermione wants to go to Neville, who is looking quite shaken by the lesson, but before the trio can say much to him, Moody invites him into his office for a cup of tea and lends him "Magical Water Plants of the Mediteranean" since he has been told that Neville is really good in Herbology. Harry, too, is shaken by the class, after all he sees exactly how his parents died and what he survived. Harry and Ron begin their Divination homework and after an hour, go back to the old Divination standby--make it up, creating all sorts of horrible disasters to befall themselves. Hermione comes in and with a box full of badges with the acronym S.P.E.W., which she informs Harry and Ron stands for Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare. She conjoles them to join, and, if only to shut her up, they pay their 2 Sickles. Hedwig arrives with a message from Sirius, who is flying north to be near Harry. He reports he has heard some strange rumors, and tells Harry if his scar hurts again to go straight to Dumbledore (do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars). Harry's reaction is guilt and worry over Sirius, since coming back will place him in danger again. When Hermione tries to pacify him, he snaps and storms off to bed. I'd come up with some class discussion quetions, but it's been a busy week and my brain cannot function in such a fashion. Trina From ara_kel at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 00:23:59 2000 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mugwumps Message-ID: <20001013002359.1608.qmail@web1504.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3351 Mugwump is a term from New York politics towards the end of the 19th century. While groups like Tammany Hall were very involved in machine politics (a system in which the "machine" of each party decided who the candidates would be and, through various means, got the people of the ward to vote for the candidate), some politicians refused to get involved with one particular machine. They were known as mugwumps because, according to one source, they had "their mugs [faces] on one side of the fence and their wumps on the other." I'm not sure exactly what meaning the word has taken on today, but it certainly was not complimentary in its original sense. Sarah ===== Don't refuse to go on an occasional wild goose chase. That's what wild geese are for. -- Anon. One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. -- A. A. Milne __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 13 00:28:00 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:28:00 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs In-Reply-To: <39E64F04.AD2F0108@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s5kug+856f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3352 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > storm stanford wrote: > > > "If Fudge were a DE there would have been a gap in the circle for him, since he was at Hogwarts and therefore unable to respond to the summons." > > > > but there were gaps in the circle, one of them was for Volde's most loyal follower (can't remember the exsact quote - don't have GoF to hand). at the time I assumed it was Barty Jnr but that would just be JKR for you wouldn't it? > > I thought she was trying to throw us off track by making us think of Snape. > > --Amanda The biggest gap was where 6 people should have been. V. says that 3 were killed in his service. Of the remaining, one is his most faithful servant, one is too cowardly to be there and one (V. thinks) has left forever. Rosier is one of the DEs killed in service (It was mentioned twice in GoF: by Sirius and during Karkaroff's trial). IIRC Wilkes is another DE mentioned to have been killed by Sirius. Another of the three might be Quirrell (he was V.'s servant, though he wasn't a DE when the others were. V. relates it himself in GoF that he persuaded Quirrell when he took that year off from teaching at Hogwarts to study). :-)Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 13 00:40:04 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:40:04 -0000 Subject: Draco cast! In-Reply-To: <8s5feu+7qm3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5ll4+3i9i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3353 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Twelve year-old Tom Felton has been cast as Draco Malfoy. See the > picture in our Files area. > > -Jim Flanagan I did a search for Tom Felton at http://www.imdb.com He was in "Anna and the King" with Jodie Foster and in "The Borrowers". :-) Milz From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 13 00:46:25 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:46:25 -0000 Subject: Int'l Wizard Govt In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s5m11+r4vq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3354 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, summers.65 at o... wrote: > >Hi -- > > > >Working on the Wizarding World -- Government FAQ, and I have a question > >for the group. I could have *sworn* that I read (or heard) some > >reference in GoF to an International Confederation of Wizards (which is > >slightly different than the Int'l Federation of Wizards that Lori > >created for PoU). Now, of course, I cannot find the reference, and I'm > >beginning to wonder if I'm making it all up. I notice that Steve's > >Lexicon has no mention of this body, so it's coming even more possible > >that I made that up. It's in the Lexicon, but it's called the International CONfederation of Wizards and it's not on the Ministry of Magic page (although it should be, pehaps...hmmm, work to do...) It's on the timeline, since the latest meeting was the summer of 1994, just before the World Quidditch Cup. Dumbledore attended and was ridiculed by Rita Skeeter for some of his points of view. We are told nothing else about this body, what it does, how often it meets, if it's a UN style group, if it's an official governmental body, or if it's an independent organization of the top wizards in the world. (That last is what I think most likely, which is why I didn't put it in with the Ministry). Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon (NOW SEARCHABLE!) http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 13 00:52:59 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:52:59 -0000 Subject: Int'l Wizard Govt In-Reply-To: <8s5m11+r4vq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5mdb+o360@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3355 > > It's in the Lexicon, but it's called the International CONfederation > of Wizards and it's not on the Ministry of Magic page (although it > should be, pehaps...hmmm, work to do...) It's on the timeline, since > the latest meeting was the summer of 1994, just before the World > Quidditch Cup. Dumbledore attended and was ridiculed by Rita Skeeter > for some of his points of view> Sorry, I forgot to include the reference. It's GF18. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon (NOW SEARCHABLE!) http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From lrcjestes at msn.com Fri Oct 13 00:51:18 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:51:18 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl References: <20001012231001.11962.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003301c034af$e5744f60$98af20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3356 > So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, completing my HP reading. I had been > reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all four books in that time. Now, I > have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you get after a major event--a holiday > or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I just can't find anything to read > that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. I'm trying to finish "The > Godfather" for the second time (I like reading books over and over), but it just > doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books--over again! Has > anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not completley crazy. I think all of us on this list has had exactly that experience which is one reason we sit here night after night reading all these crazy posts. Its also the reason some of us turn to fanfiction. There are some very good fanfiction stories out there that are book length and maintain the integrity of the characters. Not to bore the folks who have been on this list a long time, but... go to this link and you will find enough interesting HP derived fanfiction stories to keep you busy at least another couple of weeks. Its the Home of Paradigm of Uncertainty (referred to here as PoU...if you've seen that and wondered) and the Draco series (Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister) and...yes (I can't resist a shameless plug) A Sirius Affair (a prequel to PoU). These stories are providing a lot of us with our HP reading fixes until book 5....hope you like them http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty its another egroup, but you don't have to belong to the group to read the stories...go to the files section and each story has its own folder. once you've exhausted that you can venture on to fanfiction.net that has over 8000 HP derived fanfiction stories (a lot of them are lousy...but there are some gems) We'll have a FAQ on fanfiction one of these days (no rush guys...I'm not done mine yet either).... carole From donnadr at gte.net Fri Oct 13 01:00:03 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:00:03 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book/movie References: <8s52al+b5sc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b501c034b0$ee57e500$06a2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3357 Oh yeah, Brian.. I read both Jurassic Park and The Lost World. The movies didn't even come close, especially The Lost World. As far as Harry goes, it will be like David Copperfield and Hamlet - a good movie, but you can't replace the book; it will always be a classic. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 3:10 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book/movie I also think that the movie will not destroy the magic of the book. However, I believe it can't possibly capture the wonder or imagination as well. Listening to all of your comparisons I can't help but add my own ... I absolutely loved the book 'Jurassic Park: The Lost World' but thought its story was essentially mutilated by Spielberg's movie. My point is I still love the book and see its characters and locations in my mind rather than those of the movie. From the images I've seen though, it appears the movie is going to stay pretty true and for that, I'm grateful. Brian eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 13 01:06:58 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 01:06:58 -0000 Subject: book/movie In-Reply-To: <00b501c034b0$ee57e500$06a2173f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8s5n7i+ibfr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3358 IMO it really depends on how the work is dramatized. For example the BBC's version of "Great Expectations" a couple of years ago was truer to the novel than that movie with Gwynneth Paltrow. I thought the BBC's version of "David Copperfield" was very good too. I'm dreading the American version due out later this year. :-)Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > Oh yeah, Brian.. I read both Jurassic Park and The Lost World. The movies didn't even come close, especially The Lost World. As far as Harry goes, it will be like David Copperfield and Hamlet - a good movie, but you can't replace the book; it will always be a classic. > > Donna Rae > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 3:10 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book/movie > > > I also think that the movie will not destroy the magic of the > book. However, I believe it can't possibly capture the wonder or > imagination as well. Listening to all of your comparisons I can't > help but add my own ... I absolutely loved the book 'Jurassic Park: > The Lost World' but thought its story was essentially mutilated by > Spielberg's movie. My point is I still love the book and see its > characters and locations in my mind rather than those of the movie. > From the images I've seen though, it appears the movie is going to > stay pretty true and for that, I'm grateful. > > Brian > From donnadr at gte.net Fri Oct 13 01:23:46 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:23:46 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl References: <20001012231001.11962.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f601c034b4$3ceb8700$06a2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3359 I read them all over again immediately, Anake...and then I got the cassettes. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Anake To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 7:10 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, completing my HP reading. I had been reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all four books in that time. Now, I have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you get after a major event--a holiday or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I just can't find anything to read that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. I'm trying to finish "The Godfather" for the second time (I like reading books over and over), but it just doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books--over again! Has anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not completley crazy. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 02:00:01 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (r d) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl Message-ID: <20001013020001.3998.qmail@web1506.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3360 I am currently on my third round through the books. I'ts really cool though because the first time I read them I was reading them for the story itself, to find out how it ended. And I read them quickly. The next time I read them leisurely, but again for the story and now I am reading them more for details. Like little things I missed before. --- Donna Rae wrote: > I read them all over again immediately, Anake...and > then I got the cassettes. > > Donna Rae > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Anake > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 7:10 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl > > > So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, > completing my HP reading. I had been > reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all > four books in that time. Now, I > have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you > get after a major event--a holiday > or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I > just can't find anything to read > that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. > I'm trying to finish "The > Godfather" for the second time (I like reading > books over and over), but it just > doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of > reading the HP books--over again! Has > anyone else does this before? I want to know that > I'm not completley crazy. > > From, > > Anake > > ===== > ========== > Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have > thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go > on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) > ==== > YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 > ICQ: 37150285 > ==== > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from > anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 13 01:40:27 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:40:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Artist's Way (was Re: Merchandise and reading deprevation) References: <8s4slc+ubve@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E6680B.1F7D26CD@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3361 Joywitch wrote: > Peg wrote: "if anyone is moved to try this, I'd be interested in > how the > > experience went for you. For me, the whole week was an unpleasant > and > > rather unnerving, but eye-opening experience." > > > > From the extract that you gave us it seems it is depravation of all > input > > that they ask you to try. This seems an amazing idea. I think I > would go mad > > very quickly. Of course, as I have little artistic ability, I doubt > the > > whole scheme would do any good. > > Sounds like torture to me. This no reading for a week thing sounds > like a contrived way to cause yourself some spiritual pain. I know > pain is supposed to be good for the soul, but couldnt you just drop > an anvil on your toe and get it over with quicker? > > -- Joywitch > Your message made me laugh. Seriously, the book is worth a look, if any of you (esp. you aspiring writers) are interesting in exploring your creativity. Some of the exercises are really fun. One was to make a collage out of pictures ripped out of magazines. I put a picture of Harry Potter repelling dementors at the center of mine, one which I'd printed off the Internet, with the phrase "Expecto Patronum." (It seemed a fitting slogan for passing my 40th birthday.) Here's the picture I cut out and pasted in my collage: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/e/a/eagle/expecto_patronum.jpg.html here's the Amazon reference to The Artist's Way: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0874776945/qid=971400996/sr=1-1/102-3241445-3847353 What you get out of this book depends what you put into it. Cheers, Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 13 01:42:43 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:42:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT References: <8s4tl8+1ur3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E66892.2D73DA7F@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3362 Joywitch wrote: Does anyone have any recommendations for a > desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like LeGuin, > Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern Dragons > so many times I feel like they live next door.) > > -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read Try Lois McMaster Bujold. P. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 02:12:18 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:12:18 -0000 Subject: socks In-Reply-To: <8s0rkg+hsrr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5r22+qeec@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3363 (Response to an old post..) Everyone will probably think I'm daffy but here it goes- Maybe Prof.'s Trelawny's 1st prediction was that socks would be the downfall of Voldemort... Now before you laugh I've had a really long day. Ok, so Harry gives Dobby a sock. Big deal, but the thing is that IMO Dobby and the rest of the house elves are the key to V.'s downfall, and Dumbly knows it. Scott Crazy or what? > > > I believe it's JKR's engaging way of mentioning something innocuous > along the way which later becomes a pivotal or fairly significant > point. The simple starting point of Uncle Vernon's sock leads to > Dobby's release at the end of Book 2. Dobby's an important character > as well, being so critical in Task 2 of the Tournament. The house > elves have special powers which probably will come in handy in future > books. Who would have thought a mere sock would have subsequently > directly and indirectly led on to the events that transpired later. > > If I may digress for a moment - something's been on my mind about > Dobby - I was curious as to how Dobby managed to disappear when he > visited Harry in the hospital wing, on the night Harry was having his > bones regrown. Harry was holding on to him but when they heard voices > approaching, Dobby had somehow vanished. Harry was left grasping his > fist. We know that one can't apparate or disapparate in Hogwarts, so > how did he do it ? Indeed, how could he even appear in Hogwarts and > Privet Drive in Book 2, if he didn't have special abilities ? I > suspect that they do possess extremely powerful magic but have been > deliberatly supressed so as not to pose a threat, although it's in > their nature to be servile. Any thoughts ? > > Anyway, back to socks. Dobby's continuing fascination with socks is > completely understandable, since it was a crummy old sock that freed > him. Symbol of his freedom from enslavement. What better gift for > Harry to give Dobby than something he would treasure so dearly ? > Dumbledore's reference to socks was shooing off Harry's curiousity. > It's my belief that Dumbledore simply didn't want to answer the > question, as Harry himself suspected. Shutting up the madly spinning > sneakoscope - I suppose that was just being practical. Their robes > are floaty affairs aren't they, so a nice thick woollen sock was just > what was needed to wrap the noisy thing in. > > > Gen From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 02:32:35 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee (Denise) R) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:32:35 -0000 Subject: Ideas for Reading.... Message-ID: <8s5s83+632s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3364 With a Single Spell Laurence Wat-Evans http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345326164/qid=971404120/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 ----------------- The Tao of Pooh & The Te of Piglet Benjamin Hoff http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/014095144X/o/qid=971404090/sr=2 -1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------ Elizabeth Ann Scarborough http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field- author=Scarborough%2C%20Elizabeth%20Ann/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------ The Last Unicorn Peter S. Beagle http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451450523/o/qid=971403546/sr=2 -1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Eyes of the Dragon & The Talisman Stephen King (Any SK is good, though!) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451166582/o/qid=971403471/sr=2 -1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------ The Witches of Eastwick John Updike http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0449912108/qid=971403402/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Tales From the Flat Earth, The Secret Books of Paradise, & Sabella Tanith Lee http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879975296/qid=971403343/sr=1- 74/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Father Brown G.K. Chesterton http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486298590/qid=971403217/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Golden Witchbreed Mary Gentle http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0688031617/qid=971403199/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- The Warlock Series, Her Majesty's Wizard, & anything by him! Christopher Stasheff http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345274563/qid=971403160/sr=1- 8/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Myth-Adventures (the series) Robert Asprin http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1892065355/qid=971403090/sr=1- 2/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- David Eddings (If it has his name on it, it's golden!) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345367693/qid=971403025/sr=1- 4/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Wizards' First Rule (The Sword of Truth Series) Terry Goodkind (LOVE THE Mord-Siths! Warning, not a book for children) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812548051/qid=971403010/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Dune Series http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553580272/o/qid=971402988/sr=2 -3/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Dumas http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0895263467/qid=971402954/sr=1- 18/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Canticle for Leibowitz Walter M. Miller http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0808520938/qid=971402922/sr=1- 3/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Snow White, Blood Red (Edited by)Ellen Datlow & Terri Windling http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380718758/qid=971402900/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 ------------------- Catswold Portal (I recommend this book to Rita, the Catlady!!!!! Cats galore!) Shirley Rousseau Murphy http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451452755/qid=971402612/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 -------------------- Anne Rice http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1575665379/qid=971402522/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 -------------------- 10th Kingdom (the Novel, but the movie's good too) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1575665379/qid=971402522/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 -------------------- Darksword Trilogy Weis & Hickman (What they touch is magic) http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553268945/qid=971402439/sr=1- 45/002-7891588-7622441 -------------------- Gor series John Norman http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1563335271/qid=971402193/sr=1- 21/002-7891588-7622441 --------------------- Touch Not the Cat Mary Stewart http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/9994351028/qid=971402072/sr=1- 3/002-7891588-7622441 --------------------- Rebel Bride (Historical Romance) Catherine Coulter http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0451404327/qid=971402051/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 --------------------- Weaveworld & Cabal Clive Barker http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671704184/qid%3D971402022/002- 7891588-7622441 --------------------- Necroscope Series Brian Lumley http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812521374/o/qid=971401989/sr=2 -1/002-7891588-7622441 --------------------- Thomas Covenant & The Mirror of Her Dreams Stephen R. Donaldson http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345348656/qid=971401933/sr=1- 8/002-7891588-7622441 --------------------- Cat Magic & The Hunger Whitley Strieber http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0812515501/qid=971401855/sr=1- 29/002-7891588-7622441 --------------------- The Vampire Files P.N. Elrod http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0441067956/qid=971401816/sr=1- 3/002-7891588-7622441 -------------------- The Dragon and the George Gordon R. Dickson http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345350502/qid=971401769/sr=1- 1/002-7891588-7622441 --------------------- From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 03:34:00 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:34:00 -0500 Subject: Humour in reading/not-reading. References: <8s4slc+ubve@eGroups.com> <39E6680B.1F7D26CD@ibm.net> Message-ID: <001701c034c6$7027cf40$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3365 It's sorta funny, here we are talking about reading deprevation, and someone asks for a reading list of good books! ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] OT: Artist's Way (was Re: Merchandise and reading deprevation) Joywitch wrote: > Peg wrote: "if anyone is moved to try this, I'd be interested in > how the > > experience went for you. For me, the whole week was an unpleasant > and > > rather unnerving, but eye-opening experience." > > > > From the extract that you gave us it seems it is depravation of all > input > > that they ask you to try. This seems an amazing idea. I think I > would go mad > > very quickly. Of course, as I have little artistic ability, I doubt > the > > whole scheme would do any good. > > Sounds like torture to me. This no reading for a week thing sounds > like a contrived way to cause yourself some spiritual pain. I know > pain is supposed to be good for the soul, but couldnt you just drop > an anvil on your toe and get it over with quicker? > > -- Joywitch > Your message made me laugh. Seriously, the book is worth a look, if any of you (esp. you aspiring writers) are interesting in exploring your creativity. Some of the exercises are really fun. One was to make a collage out of pictures ripped out of magazines. I put a picture of Harry Potter repelling dementors at the center of mine, one which I'd printed off the Internet, with the phrase "Expecto Patronum." (It seemed a fitting slogan for passing my 40th birthday.) Here's the picture I cut out and pasted in my collage: http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/e/a/eagle/expecto_patronum.jpg.html here's the Amazon reference to The Artist's Way: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0874776945/qid=971400996/sr=1-1/102-3241445-3847353 What you get out of this book depends what you put into it. Cheers, Peg eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 13 02:31:41 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:31:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Interim reading suggestions References: <20001012224504.9274.qmail@www0v.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <39E6740D.5420F80A@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3366 Elizabeth Doherty wrote: > Joywitch, > > I will, naturally, be kicking myself seconds after I send this message because > I will have thought of roughly another two dozen suggestions for you, all of > which will of course be better than the ones I have here. Off the cuff, > though, here are a few: > -Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling's modern fairy tale anthologies > -Any of Jack Zipes' fairy tale collections > -The Armless Maiden, edited by Terri Windling (thematic collection of modern > fairy tales dealing with child abuse...sometimes tough going but well worth > it) Terri Windling is one of the foremost fantasy editors in the field--she co-edits the Years Best Fantasy and Horror anthology with Ellen Datlow. Here's Terri's website: http://www.endicott-studio.com/index.html Here's her recommended fiction subpage (she has other people help her recommend; Charles DeLint is one, I know): http://www.endicott-studio.com/recmdats.html Here's the reading list of mythopoeic works compiled on that website: http://www.endicott-studio.com/bookstor.html > -Tam Lin by Pamela Dean (it's got a number of holes in it, but it's worth > reading just for the fact that it's such a celebration of literature and it's > fun to pick out the allusions...What do they teach them at these schools?) Pamela Dean is a near neighbor and dear friend. I mentioned the Shakespeare reading group I was in on the PoU list; they were hosted at Pamela's house. It was a conversation I had with her that led to the intertwining story structure I used in my last novel; I mention this conversation in the author's afterward. And I absolutely love _Tam Lin_ If you'll remember, I mentioned it a couple of days ago when we were mentioning classics majors. It's a book about the love of reading. I strongly recommend it to people on this list. Also look at the Mythopoeic winners: http://www.mythsoc.org/awardwinners.html > I've been meaning to ask. Does it seem to > anyone else that there is a disproportionate number of teachers on the list? > Or is it just that we teachers more often mention our occupation? I was an English teacher for four years while working on my graduate degree. Then the market fell apart for English Ph.D.'s and I decided I didn't want to move out of state to pursue a tenure track position, and anyway, I'd rather write a novel than a dissertation. Peg >>> No, that's my sister. I'm La Belle Dame Sans a Reasonably Cooperative Attitude. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 13 02:54:04 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:54:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley References: <8rrl2e+51e0@eGroups.com> <39E23247.EEA88C61@texas.net> <39E28B3D.7C62E176@ibm.net> Message-ID: <01c201c034c0$d9d2a600$cbc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3367 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peg Kerr" To: Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: 7 Deadly Sins: Sloth (long)/Lockhart and Dudley > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Susan McGee wrote: > > > > > > Lockhart has no pride. He'd stoop to anything to feed his appetite for > > attention. Pomposity and pridefulness are not the same thing. > > Good point, Amanda. In reading back my original messages, I saw that I > initially put him under gluttony, but saw that it might be interpreted > as lust, too, in the larger, overarching sense (a bottomless desire for > adulation, rather than a bottomless appetite for adulation--see original > posts to see the distinction). Frankly, a lot of these sins muddle > together in character motivations; categorization is not clearcut. I would say that Lockhart can best be seen as a combination of covetnousness and sloth: he envies the achievements of greater wizards and steals them for himself, but, once having done so, is content to merely coast along on his own overinflated reputation without trying to augment his own magical skills - e.g. after his fiasco with the pixies in his DADA class, he does little more for the rest of the year than to have his students re-read from his pseudo-memoirs. As for pride, he is almost a polar opposite of Snape, who I think we'd all agree is one proud fellow. - CMC From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 02:49:32 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:49:32 -0000 Subject: Lots of Topics In-Reply-To: <8s288r+di8p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5t7s+l4a5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3368 (Responding to a really old post..) I had mentioned this way back in the Yahoo days...Anyway I think that some people suggested that possibly Harry was planning to lift Harry and then drop him from a great height, among other things. My thought was that Harry was simply in a rage. After all he was confronting the person he believed had murdered his parents. He most likely had no plan at all but simply felt the hate inside that made him WANT to kill Sirius and therefore founded the belief that he COULD kill Sirius. Did that make sense? Scott > > And, speaking of wizards being hard to kill, I was re-reading the end > of PoA last night. When Harry is contemplating killing Sirius Black > (when Crookshanks jumps on Blacks chest)...what exactly is it that > Harry was thinking that he was going to DO? How does a 13 year old > wizard know how to kill someone? Obviously he didnt know how to do > Avada Kedavra. Was he going to turn Black into a pincushion? Charm > the axe in the corner to hack him to death? (yech) > > --Joywitch From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 13 02:52:43 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:52:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mugwumps References: <20001013002359.1608.qmail@web1504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39E678FA.47F5CD46@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3369 "Mugwump" is from an American Indian word for someone who is knowledgeable and powerful. It was applied to a political elite. [I'd read the derivation before, and knew only that it was *not* from the "mugs on one side" etc. quote. My husband the historical trivia factory remembered this. We're not sure of the tribe.] But the humorous snippet came after the term was applied, it wasn't the source. --Amanda Sarah Rettger wrote: > Mugwump is a term from New York politics towards the > end of the 19th century. While groups like Tammany > Hall were very involved in machine politics (a system > in which the "machine" of each party decided who the > candidates would be and, through various means, got > the people of the ward to vote for the candidate), > some politicians refused to get involved with one > particular machine. They were known as mugwumps > because, according to one source, they had "their mugs > [faces] on one side of the fence and their wumps on > the other." I'm not sure exactly what meaning the > word has taken on today, but it certainly was not > complimentary in its original sense. > > Sarah > > ===== > Don't refuse to go on an occasional wild goose chase. That's what wild geese are for. -- Anon. > > One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries. -- A. A. Milne > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From find_sam at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 02:59:06 2000 From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 02:59:06 -0000 Subject: Unspeakables? In-Reply-To: <8s3i92+usc9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s5tpq+1kaf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3370 "Susan McGee" wrote: > Please be patient with me, but in one of the books, someone > is talking about the different departments in the Ministry of > Magic and the different roles that wizards play whin the M of M. > The Aurors are mentioned. > Then there are wizards/witches who are the Mysterious? the > Unspeakables? Does anyone remember? And what do we think they > might do? > > Susan JKR's said that James and Lily's occupation is pivotal to the series. Maybe they're Untouchables who worked against Voldemort for the department of mysteries. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 13 03:04:48 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:04:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lots of Topics References: <8s3hn9+2e9m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <024301c034c2$5940e9a0$cbc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3371 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan McGee" To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 12:20 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lots of Topics > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > > > Meanwhile, just how bad were things "when Voldemort was in > power"? > > We > > > hear that during the 11 years before That Halloween, Voldemort > > killed so > > > many families that everyone was scared all the time, they > couldn't > > even > > > bear to say his name, no one trusted even their best friends > because > > > "anyone" (not just Slytherins) could have gone over to the Dark > > Side, or > > > been put under the Imperius Curse by the Dark Side --- but the > > Quidditch > > > World Cup still went on, people still had jobs and got married > and > > sent > > > their kids to school, the Marauders cared about their mischief > > making, > > > and sneaking out of school to have fun, not about protecting their > > > families from being attacked by the Dark Side.... > > > > > I think Rita has hit upon something important here that we havent > > discussed (imagine that! an aspect of HP that we havent picked to > > death yet!). Why IS everyone so scared of Voldy? All we know is > > that he killed a bunch of people. While that is pretty bad, is a > > wizard serial killer bad enough to put a whole society in such a > > fright > > Well, I lived in Ann Arbor during the year and a half when we had a > serial rapist/killer. In the summer, the streets were mostly deserted. > There were no women walking alone. A few mixed gender couples. But > mostly people went around in crowds. Women jogged together. The fear > was palpable. > > Voldemort killed and tortured a lot of people. The terror was in > the uncertainty -- who would be next? Anyone was vulnerable. > Voldemort was "taking over" according to Sirius Black. No one was > sure who could be trusted. Hogwarts was a small island of safety > (like Britain in WWII) besieged, surrounded. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 13 03:04:49 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:04:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Interim reading suggestions References: <20001012224504.9274.qmail@www0v.netaddress.usa.net> <39E6740D.5420F80A@ibm.net> Message-ID: <39E67BD1.3D0ED87D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3372 Oh, I forgot. Martha Wells, a relative unknown, is a good friend of mine who's written three superb fantasy books. I got her first one as a graduation present, and called her to tell her that I'd been prepared for it to be good, but not for it to be *that* good! Get hers if you can find it. More very good characterization and true-feeling worlds. --Amanda Peg Kerr wrote: > Elizabeth Doherty wrote: > > > Joywitch, > > > > I will, naturally, be kicking myself seconds after I send this message because > > I will have thought of roughly another two dozen suggestions for you, all of > > which will of course be better than the ones I have here. Off the cuff, > > though, here are a few: > > > > > -Ellen Datlow and Terri Windling's modern fairy tale anthologies > > -Any of Jack Zipes' fairy tale collections > > -The Armless Maiden, edited by Terri Windling (thematic collection of modern > > fairy tales dealing with child abuse...sometimes tough going but well worth > > it) > > Terri Windling is one of the foremost fantasy editors in the field--she co-edits the Years Best > Fantasy and Horror anthology with Ellen Datlow. Here's Terri's website: > > http://www.endicott-studio.com/index.html > > Here's her recommended fiction subpage (she has other people help her recommend; Charles DeLint is > one, I know): > > http://www.endicott-studio.com/recmdats.html > > Here's the reading list of mythopoeic works compiled on that website: > > http://www.endicott-studio.com/bookstor.html > > > -Tam Lin by Pamela Dean (it's got a number of holes in it, but it's worth > > reading just for the fact that it's such a celebration of literature and it's > > fun to pick out the allusions...What do they teach them at these schools?) > > Pamela Dean is a near neighbor and dear friend. I mentioned the Shakespeare reading group I was > in on the PoU list; they were hosted at Pamela's house. It was a conversation I had with her that > led to the intertwining story structure I used in my last novel; I mention this conversation in > the author's afterward. > > And I absolutely love _Tam Lin_ If you'll remember, I mentioned it a couple of days ago when we > were mentioning classics majors. It's a book about the love of reading. I strongly recommend it > to people on this list. > > Also look at the Mythopoeic winners: > > http://www.mythsoc.org/awardwinners.html > > > I've been meaning to ask. Does it seem to > > anyone else that there is a disproportionate number of teachers on the list? > > Or is it just that we teachers more often mention our occupation? > > I was an English teacher for four years while working on my graduate degree. Then the market fell > apart for English Ph.D.'s and I decided I didn't want to move out of state to pursue a tenure > track position, and anyway, I'd rather write a novel than a dissertation. > > Peg > > >>> > > No, that's my sister. I'm La Belle Dame Sans a Reasonably Cooperative Attitude. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 04:10:39 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:10:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A request, please... References: <8s5t7s+l4a5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004b01c034cb$8e026160$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3373 Re: Lots of Topics I read this, and got excited (or the ones that say long post, or the like), then scroll down and find out that it's just one subject with a paragraph's worth of an answer to someone else's comment. I admit, I am guilty as well, and I will try to be better about it in the future; but if we all can work together, it'll be easier (less frustrating). I have to remember to change that subject line to relate to what I am typing about, not to just blindly click reply, cause it is frustrating. (Neil, have I annoyed you and Nick yet terribly with that habit? Or Penny and Melanie?) I guess there's alot of things I forget every now and again, and I want to ask forgiveness. I don't always remember to combine my posts, thus making me an uberposter, but that does hurt those who download their mail or read it online as it takes longer. It's also more mail in the mailbox, and I know that some folks are using their accounts at work for this egroup. I promise to try to improve. If I slip, would you mind pointing it out to me? I wouldn't mind, trust me! THANKS! Dee :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 13 03:09:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:09:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Some observations and inquiries References: Message-ID: <39E67D03.4B0D00D7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3374 Pogonia the Harry Potter fan wrote: > A yet-undiscussed issue of the wand concerns the shadow of the curse that > rebounded from Harry and killed Voldemort. It should have come after Lily's > death and before Bertha's. Where is it in the Priori Incantatem scene? I had thought that only the manifestable spells were perceived. Only the screams of the victims showed where a Cruciatis (sp?) spell had been cast. Presumably, then, if there was no tangible result to the spell (a dead person, whatever) we would not be able to see a manifestation of the non-result. Um, I hope that makes sense. It looks a bit odd, but I can still make out what I was saying. I think. --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 13 03:13:48 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 03:13:48 -0000 Subject: Mugwumps In-Reply-To: <20001013002359.1608.qmail@web1504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8s5ulc+nnfu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3375 Check out messages 1961 and 1968 for more information about the term. There are several possible senses of the word, which each could tell us something about the way JKR sees Dumbledore... Oh, the tribe (as I mention in 1968) is Algonquian. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon NOW SEARCHABLE! http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 13 03:24:09 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:24:09 -0500 Subject: The Dark Wizard Grindelwald References: <8s29v4+3s4o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <028601c034c5$0d9a6dc0$cbc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3376 ----- Original Message ----- From: "ht " To: Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 1:02 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lots of Topics > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > > I think Rita has hit upon something important here that we havent > > discussed (imagine that! an aspect of HP that we havent picked to > > death yet!). Why IS everyone so scared of Voldy? All we know is > > that he killed a bunch of people. While that is pretty bad, is a > > wizard serial killer bad enough to put a whole society in such a > > fright? > > Voldy's not just a wizard serial killer. It's more like living in > Berlin in the late 1930s, waiting for the Nazis to kick in the door. > Gosh, you think that's what she intended? ;-) In HP-SS, Chap. 6, the trading card for Dumbledore tells us that his particular claim to fame is his defeat of a Dark Wizard by the very Teutonic-sounding name of Grindelwald - in 1945! (Coincidence? I don't think so....) Grindelwald, IIRC, has not been mentioned again. Is this another case of that curious Wizardly penchant for recent-history amnesia that also swallowed up the early years of Tom Riddle? - CMC From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 13 03:28:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:28:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: hubris References: <8s577n+bb2o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E68147.EA7F5FB5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3377 Scott wrote: > I know what you were thinking of- Hamartia. > (I really do hope that this is correct, I couldn't find the > definition anywhere but I am still fairly certain...) > > And yes, this is what I thought of when I read the part about V. in > GoF. It also seems that Harry's sparing of Wormtail in PoA was a > kind of opposite of this...an event that leads to the charecter's > triumph- not downall. But is there a term for this... I think that's it. I know there's all these specific terms for very specific types of flaws and downfalls and such, but nobody remembers any but "hubris" unless they've had a drama class. And kept the notes. [Which I did, but can I find them....?] --Amanda From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Oct 13 03:54:47 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:54:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading References: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <39E50FCC.1F900361@ibm.net> Message-ID: <02f301c034c9$553ff6a0$cbc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3378 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peg Kerr" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Reading > > From _The Artist's Way_: (see pp. 87-89) > > "If you feel stuck in your life or your art, few jump starts are more effective > than a week of reading deprivation. > > No reading? That's right: no reading. For most artists, words are like tiny > tranquilizers. We have a daily dose of media chat that we swallow up. Like > greasy food, it clogs our systems. Too much of it and we feel, yes, fried. > > It is a paradox that by emptying our lives of distractions we are actually > filling the well. Without distractions, we are once again thrust in the > sensory world. With no newspaper to shield us, a train becomes a viewing > gallery. With no novel to sink into (and no television to numb us out) an > evening becomes a vast savannah in which furniture--and other assumptions--get > rearranged. > > Reading deprivation casts us into our inner silence, a space some of us begin > immediately to fill with new words--long, gossipy conversations, television > bingeing, the radio as constant, chatty companion. We often cannot hear our > inner voice, the voice of our artist's inspiration, above the static. In > practicing reading deprivation, we need to cast a watchful eye on these other > pollutants. They poison the well. This is similar to something Nietzsche wrote in Ecce Homo Another counsel of prudence and self-defense is to react as rarely as possible, and to avoid situations and relationships that would condemn one to suspend, as it were, one's freedom and initiative and to become a mere reagent. As a parable I choose association with books. Scholars who at bottom do little nowadays but thumb books....ultimately lose entirely their capacity to think for themselves. When they don't thumb, they don't think. They respond to a stimulus (a thought they have read) whenever they think - in the end, they do nothing but react..... Early in the morning, when day breaks, when all is fresh, in the dawn of one's strength - to read a book at such a time is simply depraved! [end quote] - CMC (who hastens to distance himself from Nietzsche's stance on this matter) From lrcjestes at msn.com Fri Oct 13 04:03:15 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:03:15 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione & JKR References: <39E63A26.EDD0B45C@swbell.net> Message-ID: <006401c034ca$83e78440$b943ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3379 > Okay, this got *zero* response over on the PoU group, so I'm trying it > out here in the hopes that someone (anyone!) will engage in > conversation. :--) (So . . . if you're on PoU, you've read this before > btw). They're busy dressing characters over there..... > The interviewer asks what "it" is. > JKR says: "What irritates me is that I > am constantly, increasingly being asked 'Can we have a strong female > character, please?' Like they > are ordering a side order of chips. I am thinking, 'Isn't Hermione > strong enough for you? She is the > most brilliant of the three and they need her. Harry needs her badly." > > She goes on to say that it would have been completely inappropriate for > her (JKR) to have thrown > in a few "feisty, gorgeous, brilliant-at-maths and great-at-fixing-cars > girls." I agree there.... > > So, I think we learn a few things more about JKR's feelings about > Hermione & about Hermione's > place in the series from this interview. We learn that really Hermione > isn't *just* a caricature of > JKR's younger self as is sometimes intimated. She really *is* JKR. I > know Ebony has mentioned > this to me before, but there can really be little doubt that Hermione is > very much JKR's surrogate in > this series. I wonder who is asking her about wanting a strong female character. In any event this statement kind of seals it that she is central to the books....and central to Harry. (whether JKR will develop that into any kind of shippy stuff depends on how shippy she's planning to get...will she avoid the whole relationship tangle, introduce new possibilities or develop the existing females to a greater extent.) > It's clear to me from the above statements that JKR cares very much > about Hermione's character -- > perhaps as much or more than she cares for her hero, Harry. I've always > sort of shied away from > referring to Hermione as the "heroine." But, I'm starting to think > more & more that maybe she *is* the heroine. > > This seems particularly relevant given our past discussions about > whether Hermione is a strong female character or not. > > So . . . is she the heroine or not? > I'm not sure on this point...she has certainly done heroic things during the series when she's helped Harry out of life threatening situations....but then so has Ron...the books are still about Harry after all, even if JKR is there as Hermione. I see Hermione as a very strong female character, and very central to Harry's development and progress through his trials, whether she will emerge as *the* heroine...or as Harry's Heroine..... Depends on what you mean by heroine...the one to come in and save the day for Harry...no not that kind of heroine, the one to provide him with motivation to do heroic things....hmmmmm And if JKR is Hermione in disguise, what does that suggest for potential romantic pairings....would you go for the hero or the hero's sidekick?...personally I'd go for the hero's godfather...but then you all knew that about me anyway : ) carole From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 05:02:43 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:02:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading SS (American version) References: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <39E50FCC.1F900361@ibm.net> <02f301c034c9$553ff6a0$cbc54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <00a301c034d2$d3aa3e20$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3380 I thought about combining this with that reading list, but I am glad I didn't--I didn't realize how big that list was until I posted it! Still reading through SS and finding more comments, questions, and queries. (This time I am not trying to read just to read--so it's taking longer (I need a notepad and pen beside the book!) Here goes! All pages are from the American version. I believe that all of Chapter seven's are from that chapter, but if not, then please do forgive me! Notes. Chapter Seven pg. 118--Slytherin...those cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends. This doesn't necessarily mean bad ends. pg. 121==Moon, Nott, Parkinson (Assume this one is Pansy!), Perks, Sally Anne... Where are these "unsorted" students? Do we learn of their houses later? pg. 122--...Looking very peculiar in a large purple turban... He wasn't wearing the turban the first time in Diagon that Harry met him. pg. 123--(AD)...a bit mad... Does this explain the socks? pg. 124--Slyth's won for 7 years. This doesn't mean that Gryf won 8 years ago, or more! pg. 126--Why did Harry's scar hurt when Snape looked at him in the hall the first time? pg. 129--Little man with wicked dark eyes (Peeves)... This does sound a bit like Mini-me! pg. 130--Why was Scabbers chewing Ron's sheets? (Also see page 184) pg. 134--Why did DADA class smell strongly like garlic (and why was the turban stuffed with it? What was the significance of the garlic and Voldie? pg. 136--Snape had the gift of keeping a class silent without effort. It sounds like he did have the knack of teaching, just not the attitude! pg. 138--Why did Snape ask Harry "those" particular questions? What significance did that have? pg. 140--What is a boar hound? (Fangs) Chapter Nine pg. 151--threw the chalk into a bin... Do you use something different for chalk in the UK? Or are they talking about a chalktray (eraser-tray?) Chapter Eleven pg. 192--Why is Hagrid SO adamant about it NOT being Snape? Chapter Twelve pg. 200=-What a weird shape...What shape is a 50p? Isn't it round and uniform like US funds? Does that mean that wizard-money is not round and disklike? pg. 202--Here's a thought--did the twins switch sweaters? Gred and Forge? pg. 207--(Mirror) propped against the wall. If it has feet, why is it propped? pg. 212--Apparating inside Hogwarts? Just an idea, did Harry trigger a trap the first time he came into the mirror room, and if so, did Dumbledore apparate to him, or was he just hidden in the shadows? (I'm thinking of the trap in The Dragon Knight?) ---------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 13 04:16:52 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:16:52 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <00a301c034d2$d3aa3e20$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8s62bk+fhp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3381 > > pg. 121==Moon, Nott, Parkinson (Assume this one is Pansy!), Perks, Sally Anne... Where are these "unsorted" students? Do we learn of their houses later? Nott is a name for a Death Eater as well, so we might guess that IF this Nott is related that he/she MIGHT be likely to go to Slytherin. We have quite a few whose houses we don't know. You can find a complete list in the Lexicon. > > pg. 122--...Looking very peculiar in a large purple turban... He wasn't wearing the turban the first time in Diagon that Harry met him. It was after Quirrell failed to steal the stone from Gringotts, which was after he met Harry in the Leaky Cauldron, that Voldemort decided to stick a little closer to him to direct his actions. > > pg. 126--Why did Harry's scar hurt when Snape looked at him in the hall the first time? Because it says he's looking right past Quirrell, therefore Voldemort is facing Harry. > > pg. 136--Snape had the gift of keeping a class silent without effort. It sounds like he did have the knack of teaching, just not the attitude! Just being able to keep a class quiet is not the same thing as being a good teacher. In this case, he does it with fear, which hardly counts as good teaching. > > pg. 140--What is a boar hound? (Fangs) A large black dog. Someone (Amanda, that was you, right?) send me a nice description of the boarhound that I put on the creatures page of the Lexicon. Search for Fang, you'll find it. > > Chapter Nine > pg. 151--threw the chalk into a bin... Do you use something different for chalk in the UK? Or are they talking about a chalktray (eraser-tray?) I interpreted that as throwing it hard into a metal wastebasket so it made a lot of noise. > > Chapter Twelve > pg. 200=-What a weird shape...What shape is a 50p? Isn't it round and uniform like US funds? Does that mean that wizard-money is not round and disklike? Exactly right. Wizard money is undoubtedly flat, but it's shape must NOT be round. Remember too that some wizards tried to pay with money like hubcaps for their camping at the World Cup. I'm guessing that they were foreign, since in Britain, the coins seem similar in general size, even if not in shape. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon NOW SEARCHABLE! http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 13 04:35:00 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:35:00 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <00a301c034d2$d3aa3e20$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8s63dk+37a9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3382 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" > pg. 122--...Looking very peculiar in a large purple turban... He wasn't wearing the turban the first time in Diagon that Harry met him. Because Quirrel wasn't possessed until after he had failed to steal the stone from Gringotts and Voldie decided he needed more supervision. SS ch.17 GOF ch.33, > > pg. 126--Why did Harry's scar hurt when Snape looked at him in the hall the first time? Snape's looking at Harry was coincidence. The pain was caused by Quirrel/Voldie's murderous thoughts. Poor Snape! The first time he even looks at Harry the kid winces in pain, no wonder the guy is hostile. > > > pg. 134--Why did DADA class smell strongly like garlic (and why was the turban stuffed with it? What was the significance of the garlic and Voldie? I still think it's because Snape is secretly part vampire...the garlic is a veiled threat...but so far nobody on this list buys that, oh well. > > pg. 136--Snape had the gift of keeping a class silent without effort. It sounds like he did have the knack of teaching, just not the attitude! See 134 above. > pg. 138--Why did Snape ask Harry "those" particular questions? What significance did that have? I bet this potion shows up eventually...like hanging a dueling pistol on the wall in the first act. > Chapter Eleven > pg. 192--Why is Hagrid SO adamant about it NOT being Snape? Hagrid may know that Dumbledore considers Snape loyal, could it be that Snape, like Harry, was able to summon Fawkes in a tight spot (You must have shown me real loyalty...Nothing but that could have called Fawkes to you. CoS ch.18) > pg. 212--Apparating inside Hogwarts? Just an idea, did Harry trigger a trap the first time he came into the mirror room, and if so, did Dumbledore apparate to him, or was he just hidden in the shadows? (I'm thinking of the trap in The Dragon Knight?) Perhaps Dumbledore had a portkey? Or the spells which governed the obstacles may have been set to allow Dumbledore alone to pass through? He can't have been hiding there all along unless he was using a time turner, because Ron and Hermione met him in the entrance hall. Pippin From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 04:39:00 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:39:00 -0000 Subject: Harry Withdrawl In-Reply-To: <20001012231001.11962.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8s63l4+5f2i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3383 i totally know what you're going through, only it happened about a month ago to me. i started to read book one again. has anyone noticed that book one, and book 4 are totally different? writing style, i mean. odile --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Anake wrote: > So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, completing my HP reading. I had been > reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all four books in that time. Now, I > have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you get after a major event--a holiday > or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I just can't find anything to read > that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. I'm trying to finish "The > Godfather" for the second time (I like reading books over and over), but it just > doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books-- over again! Has > anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not completley crazy. > > From, > > Anake > > ===== > ========== > Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) > ==== > YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 > ICQ: 37150285 > ==== > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 05:45:13 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:45:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading SS (American version) References: <8s63dk+37a9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002b01c034d8$c48366a0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3384 Actually, I was talking about the Mirror before it hit the 3rd floor, on Christmas Day Eve, when he first got the cloak and was trying it out--did he trigger a tone in Dumbledore's quarters or something? How did AD know he was there on the past few nights? > pg. 212--Apparating inside Hogwarts? Just an idea, did Harry trigger a trap the first time he came into the mirror room, and if so, did Dumbledore apparate to him, or was he just hidden in the shadows? (I'm thinking of the trap in The Dragon Knight?) Perhaps Dumbledore had a portkey? Or the spells which governed the obstacles may have been set to allow Dumbledore alone to pass through? He can't have been hiding there all along unless he was using a time turner, because Ron and Hermione met him in the entrance hall. Pippin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 13 04:53:56 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:53:56 -0700 Subject: Two Days' Worth of Replies Message-ID: <39E69563.B6B5B8C7@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3385 Post # 3243 by Lisa Rourke about Halloween: Also, I calculate that Harry (born July 31, 1980) was conceived on Halloween (of 1979 --- so if Lily wasn't what Neil called 'a gym-slip mum', she must have finished school not late than the June '79 leaving class). I've written that Halloween party for my Lily-fic, but I have to write the Summer Solstice chapter before I can post *anything*. Post # 3244 by Joywitch: "How does a 13 year old wizard know how to kill someone? Obviously he didn't know how to do Avada Kedavra. Was he going to turn Black into a pincushion? Charm the axe in the corner to hack him to death? (yech)" There are plenty of ways to kill a person without Avada Kedavra. As Simon mentions, one way is to levitate him to a great height and then let go. Making a good size hole in the aorta or raising the temperature of the brain to 200 degrees Fahrenheit should also suffice. Post # 3293 by Kelley, about the next DADA teacher: "My vote was for a woman, too. Someone smart and strong that we could like the way we do Lupin. Maybe someone for Sirius to get together with?" This latest Sunday, I had some time, so I read around on ffnet and found that 'katie bell' has Sirius married to a feisty witch named Jenny, with twins two years younger than Harry and another kid due the summer between book 4 and book 5, and that 'rave' has fixed him up with a half-Sidh named Anika. That will make things complicated for Cordelia. I kept wondering whether Anika counts as a Mary-Sue? Post # 3337 by Joywitch: "maybe the Ministry of Magic is PART of the British government. After all, it is called the MINISTRY, which is the same as what we in the US would call a DEPARTMENT, like the Department of Education." I believe that the Ministry of Magic is a *separate* government from the Muggle gov't, even tho' it can communicate with the Muggle gov't. If MoM were part of the Muggle gov't, a new Minister of Magic would be appointed every time the Out party won an election to become the In party. Also, if Magic gov't was part of Muggle gov't, wouldn't the Bulgarian boss man be Commissar of Magic rather than Minister of Magic? -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 04:56:16 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:56:16 -0000 Subject: Unspeakables? In-Reply-To: <8s5tpq+1kaf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s64lg+lp7f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3386 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sam Brown" wrote: > "Susan McGee" wrote: > > Please be patient with me, but in one of the books, someone > > is talking about the different departments in the Ministry of > > Magic and the different roles that wizards play whin the M of M. > > The Aurors are mentioned. > > Then there are wizards/witches who are the Mysterious? the > > Unspeakables? Does anyone remember? And what do we think they > > might do? > > > > Susan > > JKR's said that James and Lily's occupation is pivotal to the series. > Maybe they're Untouchables who worked against Voldemort for the > department of mysteries. This is hilarious. Of course you're right that when I said Unspeakables, I meant (on some turgid level of the brain) Untouchables, as in Eliot Ness, and I agree that Lily and James might have been in that department. How DID they make all the gold they left Harry? From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 05:16:37 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:16:37 -0000 Subject: A brazen hussy moment . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s65rl+p6jf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3387 > > > http://sfsite.com//columns/best00.htm > > The original review that they based their Year's Best 10 list on is the > best review I've ever received in my career. It's at: > > http://sfsite.com//07a/wild60.htm (Warning--it contains spoilers.) > Holy, Moly! You're the author of Wild Swans!!!! Oh, my... I've already read it! It's terrific! Now I am TOTALLY intimidated...... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 05:24:51 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:24:51 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs In-Reply-To: <39E62367.9B005094@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8s66b3+lljl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3388 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > > foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" < > > simon.branford at h...> wrote: > > > Steve wrote: "It follows then that the deatheaters knew that Sirius Black > > > was not one of them and that Peter Pettigrew was not. The deatheaters would > > > not view the confrontation between Black and Pettigrew as being innocent > > > Pettigrew chasing evil Black." > > > > > > There is the possibility that Pettigrew is not a DE. He may be working for > > > Voldemort, and be a spy for him, but this in no way makes him a DE. You know, are we really quite sure what a Death Eater is or does besides being a supporter of Voldemort? Do only DEs have the mark, or could any old supporter of Voldemort? > > > > Pettigrew is a DE. He has the dark mark. Voldemort uses it to summon > > the other DEs to him at the end of GOF. > > But would it have been possible for Wormtail to have been branded by Voldemot in > his semi-bodied state during GoF (or the summer before) and not before the > potters were killed? > > I guess we don't know if Voldemort had the power to do that, but it is entirely > possible that Wormtail was not branded before Voldemort fell. From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 05:27:47 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:27:47 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs In-Reply-To: <8s5kug+856f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s66gj+3apo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3389 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > storm stanford wrote: > > The biggest gap was where 6 people should have been. V. says that 3 > were killed in his service. Of the remaining, one is his most > faithful > servant, one is too cowardly to be there and one (V. thinks) has left > forever. > > And of the remaining three, we assume: Bartemius Crouch, Jr.; Karkarov; and Snape. From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 05:35:49 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:35:49 -0000 Subject: Avada Kedavra (was Re: Re: A varied post on Latin) In-Reply-To: <86.1615f55.2717965d@aol.com> Message-ID: <8s66vl+gm4r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3390 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > Amanda said: > > > I thought Avada Kedavra was intended to be interpreted as the un- garbled, > > original form of the standard "magic word" abracadabra. This might be a > > bit of dark humor, that the spell word that the Muggle children use in > > making pretend magic is an echo of the most dangerous curse there is in > > the wizarding world. It could easily have leaked over; if you were with > > your brother in the forest, and disturbed an evil old hermit, and he > > cursed your brother dead, you'd probably remember (albeit in garbled form) > > the words he used. Such situations could easily have happened, as various > > evil wizards went on the rampage (or just got teed off for whatever > > reason). And thus would the garbled form, abracadabra, have entered the > > Muggle folklore. > > > > My theory. Thoughts? > > > --Amanda > > The word "Abracadabra" was derived from the Hebrew phrase "abreq ad habra", > which means "hurl your thunderbolt even unto death". It's kind of a stretch, > but it may not just be a coincidence that Harry's scar is in the shape of a > thunderbolt (lightning bolt). Plus, the translation includes mention of > "death". > I like this theory > If you don't buy this theory, then I have another. "Avada" is phonetically > similar to "evado", which is Latin for "to become". "Kedavra" is similar to > "cadaver". Hence, Avada Kedavra (evado cadaver) could mean "to become a > corpse". > > Thoughts? > > Ellie Rosenthal > http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ i don't like theory #2 -- why would JKR resort to pidgin Latin when everything else is delightfully correct Latin? Nope it's the first theory that's the best From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 05:40:57 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:40:57 -0000 Subject: Avada Kedavra (was Re: Re: A varied post on Latin) In-Reply-To: <86.1615f55.2717965d@aol.com> Message-ID: <8s6799+lc2t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3391 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > Amanda said: > > > I thought Avada Kedavra was intended to be interpreted as the un- garbled, > > original form of the standard "magic word" abracadabra. This might be a > > bit of dark humor, that the spell word that the Muggle children use in > > making pretend magic is an echo of the most dangerous curse there is in > > the wizarding world. It could easily have leaked over; if you were with > > your brother in the forest, and disturbed an evil old hermit, and he > > cursed your brother dead, you'd probably remember (albeit in garbled form) > > the words he used. Such situations could easily have happened, as various > > evil wizards went on the rampage (or just got teed off for whatever > > reason). And thus would the garbled form, abracadabra, have entered the > > Muggle folklore. > > > > My theory. Thoughts? > > > --Amanda > > The word "Abracadabra" was derived from the Hebrew phrase "abreq ad habra", > which means "hurl your thunderbolt even unto death". It's kind of a stretch, > but it may not just be a coincidence that Harry's scar is in the shape of a > thunderbolt (lightning bolt). Plus, the translation includes mention of > "death". > > If you don't buy this theory, then I have another. "Avada" is phonetically > similar to "evado", which is Latin for "to become". "Kedavra" is similar to > "cadaver". Hence, Avada Kedavra (evado cadaver) could mean "to become a > corpse". > > Thoughts? > > Ellie Rosenthal > http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 06:01:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:01:10 -0000 Subject: prequels - my fantasies Message-ID: <8s68f6+sb7r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3392 well, my favorite would be for JKR to write about the four Marauders and their time at Hogwarts... then there's Dumbledore's affiliation with Nicholas Flamel, his defeat of the dark wizard G.. and what about a story of the young Albus Dumbledore and the Hogwarts of his day... also, the story of Molly and Arthur Weasley's love affair.... From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 13 06:05:57 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:05:57 -0000 Subject: Chapter 14 Summarization In-Reply-To: <8s5kjk+1hv9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s68o5+rlqo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3393 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > The Unforgivable Curses > > In which Harry, Ron, Hermione & the rest of the Gryffindors have > their 1st DADA class with Mad-Eye Moody. > > Moody starts out the class by telling them to put away their books > since they won't be needing them and that he has only one year to > teach them how to deal with the DA's, since he is here as a special > favor to Dumbledore. Then he jumps right into Curses. More > specifically the illegal Unforgivable Curses. The Unforgivable > Curses are Imperius Curse (total control), the Cruciatus Curse (utter > pain), and Avada Kedavra (the killing curse). And Moody demonstrates > all of them in class with spiders as victims. Neville, who never > volunteeers any information in class outside of Herbology, actually > mentions the Cruciatus curse and his reaction to seeing it used on > the spider is heartwrenching (even before we the audience knows quite > why). > > After class, Hermione wants to go to Neville, who is looking quite > shaken by the lesson, but before the trio can say much to him, Moody > invites him into his office for a cup of tea and lends him "Magical > Water Plants of the Mediteranean" since he has been told that Neville > is really good in Herbology. Harry, too, is shaken by the class, > after all he sees exactly how his parents died and what he survived. > > Harry and Ron begin their Divination homework and after an hour, go > back to the old Divination standby--make it up, creating all sorts of > horrible disasters to befall themselves. Hermione comes in and with a > box full of badges with the acronym S.P.E.W., which she informs Harry > and Ron stands for Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare. She > conjoles them to join, and, if only to shut her up, they pay their 2 > Sickles. > > Hedwig arrives with a message from Sirius, who is flying north to be > near Harry. He reports he has heard some strange rumors, and tells > Harry if his scar hurts again to go straight to Dumbledore (do not > pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars). Harry's reaction is guilt and > worry over Sirius, since coming back will place him in danger again. > When Hermione tries to pacify him, he snaps and storms off to bed. > > I'd come up with some class discussion quetions, but it's been a busy > week and my brain cannot function in such a fashion. > > Trina Is it in this chapter that harry writes to Sirius to say Oh, it probably wasn't anything, and Sirius writes back "nice try, Harry!" see you soon or words to that effect. I loved this exchange, and upon reflection, I loved it because it illuminates Sirius and Harry's MUTUAL care and concern for each other Susan From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Thu Oct 12 20:39:54 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:39:54 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8s2177+20pr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3394 ROFL! I love it. Maybe this blows everything out of the water! thanks storm ----- Original Message ----- From: foxmoth at qnet.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 1:32 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing Storm (I'm still pushing my snape/dumbledore theory but I may have > to go fanfic) You'll have to explain why it's Snape and *Filch* we keep catching in innocent-but-suggestive situations: with Snape's robes hiked up in SS chapter 11, in their nightclothes in GOF chapter 25. Moody/Crouch thinks they're up to something, doesn't he. Pajama party? I can just see them up in Filch's office after hours with the chains and the polyjuice and...well I think I'd better stop now.(evil grin) Pippin eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 13 08:57:03 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:57:03 +0100 Subject: SS questions, differences in style of books, Hermione, JKR and heroine Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3395 Dee asked some questions so here are some answers! Chapter Nine "pg. 151--threw the chalk into a bin... Do you use something different for chalk in the UK? Or are they talking about a chalktray (eraser-tray?)" A piece of chalk thrown into a bin will clang fairly loudly, if it is thrown with enough force. The piece of chalk would then disintegrate into nothing, but Peeves would not care about this. Chapter Eleven "pg. 192--Why is Hagrid SO adamant about it NOT being Snape?" Hagrid trusts Dumbledore completely (notice how he reacts when Karkaroff and Vernon insult Dumbledore) and Dumbledore trusts Snape. Chapter 12: "pg. 200=-What a weird shape...What shape is a 50p? Isn't it round and uniform like US funds? Does that mean that wizard-money is not round and disklike?" In the UK we have a couple of odd shaped coins. The 50p and 20p coins are not the conventional circular shape that most coins in the UK are. Both coins are heptagonal (with slightly curved sides). The back is a picture of the queen and the image on the front varies. The 20p is about 3/4 inches across and the 50p 1 inch (measurement are approximate due to the shape of the coins). Odile wrote: "has anyone noticed that book one, and book 4 are totally different? writing style, i mean." This reflects the changing nature of the books. PS was aimed at children, but GoF was aimed towards mid teens. These two different age groups are greatly different and the style of book had to reflect this. Of course in truth all the books are aimed at us adults, but we have to leave the children to believe that they are their books! JKR said: "She is the most brilliant of the three and they need her. Harry needs her badly." How to disagree with the author? IMO this does not come across in the books. In CoS and PoA Hermione is not in the story for a while and Harry copes fairly well. I do not get the impression that he does need her badly. I agree that Ron needs her, in the sense of being friends. He does not cope very well in PoA when the Scabbers incident is going on. He instead starts making nasty remarks and doing very little and seemingly because he cannot admit that maybe it is he who is wrong. Carole wrote: "I wonder who is asking her about wanting a strong female character. In any event this statement kind of seals it that she is central to the books....and central to Harry. (whether JKR will develop that into any kind of shippy stuff depends on how shippy she's planning to get...will she avoid the whole relationship tangle, introduce new possibilities or develop the existing females to a greater extent.)" I see her as being central to Harry as a friend in the upcoming conflict but this, IMHO, is one of the reasons why they have to remain just friends. The moment hormones get in the way of the friendship then Hermione will become useless to Harry, at least as a friend. Penny wrote: "I've always sort of shied away from referring to Hermione as the "heroine." But, I'm starting to think more & more that maybe she *is* the heroine. This seems particularly relevant given our past discussions about whether Hermione is a strong female character or not. So . . . is she the heroine or not?" Definition of heroine (from the OED online): 1) In ancient mythology, a female intermediate between a woman and a goddess; a demi-goddess. 2) A woman distinguished by exalted courage, fortitude, or noble achievements. 3) The principal female character in a poem, story, or play; the woman in whom the interest of the piece centres. 4) attrib. or as adj. Heroine-like, heroic. #1 a new description of Hermione. Elevates her importance somewhat! #2 links in with the idea of why Hermione is in Gryffindor. #3 she is the principal female, but not really the interest of the story. #4 this does not really fit to well! I am not too sure about this heroine idea. She is definitely a strong character. Carole wrote: "And if JKR is Hermione in disguise, what does that suggest for potential romantic pairings....would you go for the hero or the hero's sidekick?...personally I'd go for the hero's godfather...but then you all knew that about me anyway : )" Go for the one you love. How important someone is should not enter into a discussion on true love. At this stage I will leave Carole chasing after the doggie. Simon From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Fri Oct 13 09:37:58 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:37:58 -0000 Subject: prequels - my fantasies In-Reply-To: <8s68f6+sb7r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s6l5m+t9o1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3396 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > well, my favorite would be for JKR to write about the four Marauders > and their time at Hogwarts... > > then there's Dumbledore's affiliation with Nicholas Flamel, his > defeat of the dark wizard G.. > > and what about a story of the young Albus Dumbledore and the Hogwarts > of his day... > > also, the story of Molly and Arthur Weasley's love affair.... Totally agree. JKR said in an interview somewhere that she would continue writing after Book 7 but of course didn't elaborate any further. So I personally hope she will indeed write the prequels. May I add to your wish list... The start of Hogwarts itself and the story of the 4 founders.. James and Lily Potter... Tom Riddle and his transformation into Voldemort after he left Hogwarts ... The 11 years of terror in Volemort's and the Death Eaters' hands.. Gen From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Fri Oct 13 09:55:33 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:55:33 -0000 Subject: Harry Withdrawl In-Reply-To: <8s63l4+5f2i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s6m6l+57r0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3397 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Odile Alburquerque" wrote: > i totally know what you're going through, only it happened about a > month ago to me. i started to read book one again. has anyone > noticed that book one, and book 4 are totally different? writing > style, i mean. > > odile > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Anake wrote: > > So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, completing my HP reading. > I had been > > reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all four books in > that time. Now, I > > have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you get after a major > event--a holiday > > or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I just can't find > anything to read > > that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. I'm trying to > finish "The > > Godfather" for the second time (I like reading books over and > over), but it just > > doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books- - > over again! Has > > anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not > completley crazy. > > > > From, > > > > Anake > > > > Just wanted to say that you're not alone! I've read the books three times each and the whole series of tapes once and I'm going through the tapes yet again. I tried to get my mind off by reading Dahl and Eddings but they don't hold the same fascination and I find myself drawn over and over again to HP. I can just picture myself going to the movies over and over again when it begins and for the second time in my life, I'm eagerly looking forward to the month of July again when the next book is released. For the record, I'm not even an impressionable youngster..I have 2 kids and I have NEVER been this attached to a book/series. Just today, I handed out prizes for a HP contest I organised, to students of a school where I'm helping out in the library. So , happy reading!! Gen From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Oct 13 11:35:23 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:35:23 -0000 Subject: Harry Withdrawl In-Reply-To: <20001012231001.11962.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8s6s1r+si00@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3398 > So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books--over again! Has > anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not > completley crazy. > Reading HP in a foreign language is good practice if you have a rusty 2nd language from high school or college. You can order the books in French, Spanish and German from Amazon. They're available in dozens of other languages, although Amazon doesn't stock them. I'm halfway through book 3 in French and I just sent in my order for the 4th, which comes out on November 29. -Jim Flanagan From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 11:54:10 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl Message-ID: <20001013115410.16368.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3399 --- lrcjestes wrote: > > I think all of us on this list has had exactly that experience which is one > reason we sit here night after night reading all these crazy posts. Its > also the reason some of us turn to fanfiction. There are some very good > fanfiction stories out there that are book length and maintain the integrity > of the characters. Not to bore the folks who have been on this list a long > time, but... Yeah, the posts really help. I'll be in school and when it gets boring, as it often does, I look forward to coming home and reading these posts. Luckily, I do have one friend at school that I can talk Potter to because I've gotten her and her MOTHER hooked on the books. Thanks for the link! I'm going on vacation this morning, but return on Sunday and that's when I will get to work reading. Of course, I'll print them out because reading the computer screen after a really long period of time gives me a migrane. Although, these days, it seems that anything gives me a migrane (luckily, they're small). From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 11:58:26 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 04:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book/movie Message-ID: <20001013115826.2410.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3400 --- Donna Rae wrote: > Oh yeah, Brian.. I read both Jurassic Park and The Lost World. The movies didn't > even come close, especially The Lost World. As far as Harry goes, it will be > like David Copperfield and Hamlet - a good movie, but you can't replace the book; > it will always be a classic. Jurassic Park came closer than The Lost World, although I do love the movies. JP came out when I was 11 and I was OBSESSED (I can't stress that word enough) about dinosaurs, especially velociraptors, and this obsession went on until the end of 1997, after The Lost World. Now I OBSESS over Harry Potter. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 12:00:38 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl Message-ID: <20001013120038.2679.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3401 --- Donna Rae wrote: > I read them all over again immediately, Anake...and then I got the cassettes. > > Donna Rae That's exactly what I'm doing right now. I'm currently re-reading SS (or PS). I'm reading them over for the obvious reason and because sometimes there are things on this list which I think, "I don't remember that," or "When was that?" and then I realized I should re-read the books to become more "sharp" about HP, just like I have with The Simpsons and their Complete Guides. I now know almost every episode of The Simpsons by heart (name included). From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 12:04:27 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl Message-ID: <20001013120427.17170.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3402 --- r d wrote: > I am currently on my third round through the books. > I'ts really cool though because the first time I read > them I was reading them for the story itself, to find > out how it ended. And I read them quickly. The next > time I read them leisurely, but again for the story > and now I am reading them more for details. Like > little things I missed before. That's what I did with Orwell's 1984 (which is my favorite book of all time-but trust me, HP comes to a close, close second). I now know almost all that book by heart and I make it a promise to myself to read "1984" at least once a year. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt Fri Oct 13 12:51:06 2000 From: dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt (Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:51:06 +0100 (WET DST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <8s50vt+qqav@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3403 Actually, I also have a suggestion, but it's not the usual sci-fic books, and still one of the most famous and popular: Frank Herbert's "Dune" and it's sequels. I think it can be compared to the LOTR and it's definitely not for children. One of my favourites, Diogo From brooksar at indy.net Fri Oct 13 13:09:15 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:09:15 -0500 Subject: Wand playback References: <971417170.27729@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39E7097C.EA2DF957@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3404 > I had thought that only the manifestable spells were perceived. Only the screams > of the victims showed where a Cruciatis (sp?) spell had been cast. Presumably, > then, if there was no tangible result to the spell (a dead person, whatever) we > would not be able to see a manifestation of the non-result. (Amanda Lewanski) That was my thought too. From lrcjestes at msn.com Fri Oct 13 13:15:05 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:15:05 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] books / movies References: Message-ID: <001d01c03517$9b3d9c40$eb6a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3405 > Actually, I also have a suggestion, but it's not the usual sci-fic books, > and still one of the most famous and popular: Frank Herbert's "Dune" and > it's sequels. I think it can be compared to the LOTR and it's definitely > not for children. One of my favourites, Now there's a movie that IMO was awful. I'd never read the books, but I'd heard great things about them...so I went to see the movie. Now, maybe it was the atmosphere in which I saw the movie...it was in a drafthouse where they serve pizza and beer during the movie...so it was crowded, and people were getting up and waitresses were wandering through. I had a hard time hearing, and could make no sense whatsoever out of the plot...but it sticks out in my mind as one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Whenever my husband and I are referring to a ridiculous plotline in a movie...we tend to start chanting "the worm is the spice...the spice is the worm" and burst out laughing..... I mean no disrespect to the books, as I have heard from many people they are great, and maybe I will try them one of these days, but the movie surely turned me off attempting them for a long time...lets hope that doesn't happen to Harry. carole From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 13 14:51:04 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:51:04 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) Message-ID: <8s77gp+fa8m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3406 pg 118 Slytherin I am hoping they play a big role in defeating Voldemort. In book 1 pg 80 Hagrid say's, "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." In one of the other books he seems to contradict that statement. I agree, "using any means to achieve their ends" doesn't mean it is always for evil. pg 134 garlic I am a believer in Snape being at least part-vampire. On pg 70 when Harry is meeting Quirrell for the first time, Quirrell mentions he has to pick up a new book on vampires. He looked terrified at the very thought. Pg 71 - They say he (Quirrell) met vampires in the Black Forest. In GoF pg 654, Voldemort mentions a young wizard, a teacher of Dumbledore's, wandered across my path in the forest. In Voldemort's seach for immortality, did he become part vampire himself? Bk 1, chap 17, pg 288, Quirrell refers to Snape as, "swooping around like an overgrown bat". One other thing, chap 13, pg 226, in the meeting between Quirrell and Snape the following conversation takes place: "You don't want me as your enemy, Quirrell," said Snape, taking a step towards him. "I-I don't know what you----" "You know perfectly well what I mean." Again, I think Snape is at least part-vampire and Quirrell knows this, possibly from Voldemort? chap 8 I think we will see the sleeping potion, Draught of Living Death, in one of the future books. Helpful information to know that the bezoar stone will save you from most poisons. I think that will come up later also. chap 11 Hagrid knows a lot about Snape's past. He knows Snape would never harm any of the kids. In chapter 8, pg 141, ater Harry is complaining to Hagrid after his first class with Snape, Harry says that Snape seemed to really hate him. "Rubbish!" said Hagrid. "Why should he?" Yet Harry couldn't help thinking that Hagrid didn't quite meet his eyes when he said that. Yep, Hagrid knows alot but he isn't telling....yet. Martha From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Oct 13 14:55:30 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:55:30 -0000 Subject: book banning in Santa Fe Message-ID: <8s77p2+6b6o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3407 Penny - is this anywhere near you? Harry Potter Books Bewitching Santa Fe School District Parents Must Sign Permission Slips From Library Supernatural themes in Harry Potter books prompted the Santa Fe, Texas School District to require parental signature before a child can check out one of the popular children's books. The school district said that the rule does not censor children, it just makes parents aware. "This isn't censorship," superintendent Richard Ownby said. "We make the books available, we just require the parent's permission." Many parents agree with the new rule. "When children are under 18 they need rules," Reginald Levi said. "You have to set some kind of limits." Area librarians are unhappy with the new rule that the district has imposed. "We have a waiting list for the book," Rosie Hollaway said. "Anything that encourages children to read is a great thing." The Texas Library Association is also alarmed with the new rule. They released a statement Thursday saying, "We encourage schools and parents to allow access to printed materials we are concerned about this." Santa Fe was recently in the news when the United States Supreme Court barred organized prayer before public school football games as a result of a lawsuit filed against the school district From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 15:05:22 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:05:22 -0000 Subject: Unspeakables? In-Reply-To: <8s5adl+7vra@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s78bi+h6ad@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3408 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > Please be patient with me, but in one of the books, someone > > is talking about the different departments in the Ministry of > > Magic and the different roles that wizards play whin the M of M. > > The Aurors are mentioned. > > Then there are wizards/witches who are the Mysterious? the > > Unspeakables? Does anyone remember? And what do we think they > > might do? > > > > Susan > > They were mentioned in GoF. It's called the Department of Mysteries. > No one knows for sure what DoM does. IMO, it's probably a combination > of the FBI,CIA, NSA (National Security Agency), KGB, etc. > > :-) Doesn't Hagrid say something about needing a "wizard hit team" from the MoM to take care of a problem? I think it was in P/SS or PoA. And I'm at work, so I can't check. And why am I getting a vision of Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith? "Men In Black (Robes)." Saving the wizarding world from the scum of the Dark Side. Forgive me, it's Friday the 13th and a full moon. ht From karob_7 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 15:11:54 2000 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (Karin ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:11:54 -0000 Subject: Ch. 14: Character Development In-Reply-To: <8s5kjk+1hv9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s78nq+l3qg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3409 One of the interesting things to me in chapter 14 is that we seem to learn a lot about several characters, simply by their reactions to the Unforgiveable Curses. 1. The majority of the class, including Ron: Most of the class thinks the lesson was really amazing and cool. Not having any personal experience relating to the Unforgiveable Curses, they don't recognize how horrible they really are. Moody says he is trying to make them more aware, but most of the students leave the classroom just as insulated as when they entered that day. 2. Hermione: Hermione watches not only what happens to the spiders, but the reactions of those around her. She sees Neville's reaction to the Cruciatus Curse, and demands that Professor Moody stop. Hermione hasn't had the personal experience either, but her reaction is different from that of most of the class. I think we learn from that that she is not only intelligent and observant, but that she is also an extremely caring and thoughtful person. 3. Neville: Neville's reaction is a big surprise to us, or at least it was to me. Up until this point, Neville has pretty much been a one-dimensional character. But when we see how upset he is by the seeing the Cruciatus Curse performed, we realize that there is a lot more to him than meets than eye. 4. Harry: Harry's reaction to the curses is also a contrast to that of most of the class. He has just learned how his parents died, and there is nothing amazing or cool about that. >From their reactions here, we see that most of the students will be shocked by Voldemort's return. It will be a very rude awakening. But for Harry and Neville (especially Neville), his potential return has been hanging over their heads for quite some time. As for Hermione, she seems to know about practicing constant vigilance without the help of Moody. From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 13 15:03:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:03:10 -0500 Subject: Bookends References: <8s1fj4+tcu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E7242D.C5CA62C4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3410 Hi -- Kelley wrote: > I'm specifically looking for a pic of the 'train > bookends'. Are those the ones you have, Penny? I went to the WB > online store, and didn't see any bookends at all. Sorry to be so long in responding -- full inbox! Yes, I have the WB train bookends -- and I did buy mine in July sometime. The ones on B&N are different -- I may *have* to have those too since they're H/H (hee, hee). Of course, I don't like that they've given Hermione blonde hair. Do these artists *read* the books? As for the WB set -- I saw them on an ebay auction the other day (they're pictured so you can definitely see them there). The seller in this auction intimates that WB isn't making these bookends anymore, although I find that hard to believe. Anyway . . . if you want to see them (and maybe bid on them), you can find them on ebay. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 13 15:35:08 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:35:08 +0100 Subject: Accents Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3411 Penny wrote: "Making slow progress in cleaning out my inbox, which got really out of control this week." Same here. My inbox is still a nightmare waiting for me to have some free time in which to clear it. Also I have forgotten how to be a student! I cannot write coherent lecture notes for the full hour of a lecture. I am, however, finding some time to write my FAQ's. I hope to get the Weasley FAQ finished tonight or tomorrow. Penny wrote: "When I envisioned character accents -- I was thinking a bit more of something that would suggest the various theories for characters who have distinct accents (mainly Hagrid I suppose). I also vaguely wondered if we could mention/describe the various accents that are given to the characters in the audio versions. I see Melanie is doing Audio Versions. Do you (Neil) or Simon have any of the audio versions? It might be better for one of the British members to comment on that aspect. I can also go with just adding a blurb to the Casting/Movie FAQ about accents in general. Maybe the theories about Hagrid's accent should just go in the Hagrid FAQ (Carole is doing this one). I think it would be best if Neil or Simon wrote up some description or blurb about the theories on Hagrid's accent (you hear West Country or Scottish brogue thrown around most often -- I think West Country myself but I'm not British)." I have none of the audio versions. The other possibility for accents is the Weasley family or Snape. During the work on the Weasley family FAQ I have found many different options. I am happy to put some of the Weasley family where do they live / what accents they have stuff into the FAQ I am doing. Simon From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 13 15:39:06 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:39:06 +0100 Subject: Apology (was [HPforGrownups] Accents) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3412 Sorry about the last message - It was meant to go to the FAQ group. Simon From brooksar at indy.net Fri Oct 13 15:52:46 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:52:46 -0000 Subject: DUNE In-Reply-To: <001d01c03517$9b3d9c40$eb6a5ecf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8s7b4e+9reb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3413 > Now there's a movie that IMO was awful. I'd never read the books, but I'd > heard great things about them...so I went to see the movie. Now, maybe it > was the atmosphere in which I saw the movie... Did you see it when first out? It had been edited so badly the plot fell apart (like the recent Avengers movie). I understand that when it had a lot of removed footage restored, it became rather better. However, I also understand that the Dune books are the inverse of Trek movies - the even-numbered ones are the bad ones. -Brooks From brooksar at indy.net Fri Oct 13 15:56:27 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:56:27 -0000 Subject: Totally OT: COLE book of condolences Message-ID: <8s7bbb+n77f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3414 Andrew Toppan of www.hazegray.org has established an on-line Book of condolences, with messages of sympathy and support to be forwarded to shipmates and relatives when practical to do so. It can be found linked from here: http://www.hazegray.org/features/cole/ Andrew says: "We wish to express our profound sympathy to the families and friends of the men and women killed and injured aboard USS Cole. At times like these we must all reflect on the sacrifices made by the sailors who voluntarily go "In Harm's Way" to defend freedom and pursue peace. They willingly face these dangers every day - even in seemingly "safe" places, as so terribly demonstrated by this attack. Please take a moment to reflect on these sacifices as you go about your business today - while the crew and family of Cole struggle to deal with their terrible loss and the aftermath of the attack. You may also leave a message in our Book of Condolences for USS Cole. These messages will be forwarded to Cole when we are able to do so. " -Brooks From monika at darwin.inka.de Fri Oct 13 16:26:14 2000 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:26:14 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sirius' motorcycle In-Reply-To: <39E64FD9.EF0D0D4E@texas.net> References: <8s5b2q+6us3@eGroups.com> <39E64FD9.EF0D0D4E@texas.net> Message-ID: <2qaeus4b6kss8m4bl08642n9bkk302o30b@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3415 On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:57:13 -0500, Amanda Levanski wrote: >Or maybe the fact that his two best friends had just been murdered, largely >due to a misjudgement on his own part, might have affected his thinking a >bit and it wasn't the clearest...? Didn't Hagrid say that he was "white and shaking"? Sounds to me as if he was in shock. Monika -- Books and Movies http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 13 16:26:49 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:26:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione & JKR References: <39E63A26.EDD0B45C@swbell.net> <006401c034ca$83e78440$b943ddcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39E737C9.412F6AE2@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3416 Hi -- lrcjestes wrote: > I wonder who is asking her about wanting a strong female character. Critics have definitely posed this question. There was a salon.com article sometime late last fall that charged that the HP series had "girl trouble." A number of this author's points were really off-base. She also didn't seem to have the sense that Hermione had made it further in the final adventures of the first 3 books than Ron had. I think there have probably been other critics who have echoed this point & caused JKR to be irritated by the whole line. Besides, I think McGonagall is a strong character too. And, we don't know much about her yet, but I'd be willing to be that Lily Potter was a very strong person. > And if JKR is Hermione in disguise, what does that suggest for > potential > romantic pairings....would you go for the hero or the hero's > sidekick?...personally I'd go for the hero's godfather...but then you > all > knew that about me anyway : ) Simon added: > Go for the one you love. How important someone is should not enter into a > discussion on true love. > Well, I agree with Simon's basic point. But, I think what Carole is driving at is that we have an author who completely controls what happens with these characters. Whether she's consciously aware of the fact that Hermione is her own surrogate in the series or not, one has to assume that her conscious or subconscious feelings may play into the mix *if and when* she puts the characters into romantic relationships. I think JKR's favorite character is Harry. If it were Ron, the stories would center around Ron. We all know Lupin is one of her favorites but I really think that Harry must be her absolute favorite. So . . . . if you're pairing "yourself" off in a fictional universe with one of several potential romantic partners, aren't you the least bit likely to put yourself with the *hero,* who happens to be your favorite character? I liked Simon's definitions of heroine. That was more what I was going for (rather than a damsel-in-distress who needs to be rescued by the hero). I was thinking more in terms that she really is the principal female character. > IMO this does not come across in the books. In CoS and PoA Hermione is not > in the story for a while and Harry copes fairly well. I do not get the > impression that he does need her badly. > I agree that Ron needs her, in the sense of being friends. He does not cope > very well in PoA when the Scabbers incident is going on. He instead starts > making nasty remarks and doing very little and seemingly because he cannot > admit that maybe it is he who is wrong. > Well . . . in SS, Harry needs her and Ron to help him solve the puzzle & get to the Stone (they both have important roles but Hermione survives a bit longer than Ron). In CoS, Harry & Ron both need her to help solve the mystery of the basilisk (Polyjuice Potion is her idea & without her little clipping about the basilisk, Harry & Ron couldn't have gone on). In PoA, it's Hermione's time-turner & her presence that help Harry to achieve the end results (saving Buckbeak & Sirius). In GoF, Harry himself relies on her for support & friendship when Ron has turned his back on him & then he relies on her for help to get through the first task. She & Ron together help Harry with the remaining 2 tasks. Hermione is the one to solve the Rita Skeeter puzzle. And, let's face it, it's probably mainly Hermione who came up with the spells & charms that helped Harry escape the graveyard in Little Hangleton (granted Ron was Harry's guinea pig over & over again, but Hermione is probably the one who researched & demonstrated those spells). So, I would disagree that it's not too clear that Harry needs Hermione badly. As for the PoA fight -- I've said it before but it's Harry who makes the first overtures at making it up with Hermione. He seems to me to be a bit put-out that Ron is so stubbornly resistant to making up with Hermione. "Can't you give her a break?" he asked Ron. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 13 16:33:44 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:33:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] book banning in Santa Fe References: <8s77p2+6b6o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E73968.3C2335B8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3417 Hi -- heidi tandy wrote: > Penny - is this anywhere near you? > > Harry Potter Books Bewitching Santa Fe School District Yes! It's a small town between Houston & Galveston. One of my Galveston friends says that there has been some rather spirited discussion of this issue in the Galveston papers (letters to the editor -- with the Santa Fe residents sounding narrow-minded & intolerant & the Galveston resident responses being rather humorous & sarcastic). I haven't had time to check out if the Galveston papers online would have any of these letters. And, yes, they are indeed the same town that has in the last month or os openly challenged the Supreme Court decision regarding organized prayers at public school football games. It's a really . . . . um . . . . interesting . . . . community down there. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 13 17:00:14 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:00:14 +0100 Subject: Hermione and JKR Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3418 Penny wrote: "She also didn't seem to have the sense that Hermione had made it further in the final adventures of the first 3 books than Ron had. I think there have probably been other critics who have echoed this point & caused JKR to be irritated by the whole line." Making something out of Hermione getting further in the three book endings that Ron is taking things a bit far. CoS and PoA have Hermione and Ron at similar levels. In PS the situation would not have worked if we had had Snape's puzzle before the chess. Part of the point was that Hermione was to go back and get help. Ron sacrificed himself to get the others through the chess game. I think they have had equal involvement in the book endings (this can be extended to include GoF as they did nothing to help Harry get away from Voldemort). Penny wrote: "Besides, I think McGonagall is a strong character too. And, we don't know much about her yet, but I'd be willing to be that Lily Potter was a very strong person." McGonagall maybe a strong character but she, IMO, has too little involvement in the stories. Dumbledore is ahead of her in the pecking order and Snape is roughly level with her. Also we have Sirius in there as well. There is just a lack of female characters in the story - too many are bit parts. Penny wrote: "Well . . . in SS, Harry needs her and Ron to help him solve the puzzle & So, I would disagree that it's not too clear that Harry needs Hermione badly." Does she do anything but solve problems? Surely she has to be able to offer something else to Harry? There will come a time when Harry has no problems to solve (well there maybe!), what will she do then? Penny wrote: "As for the PoA fight -- I've said it before but it's Harry who makes the first overtures at making it up with Hermione. He seems to me to be a bit put-out that Ron is so stubbornly resistant to making up with Hermione. "Can't you give her a break?" he asked Ron." Ron is too stubborn to make it up with Hermione and needs a real shock to get him talking too her. Hermione is too stressed to bother to make it up with Ron. In reality the fight is between Ron and Hermione (the fight with Harry is only due to the fact that Hermione is sure Harry would side with Ron rather than her - insecurity?). So it is left to Harry to make the effort to get them back together. Something he does not really manage to do. He just gives up. Penny wrote: "Well, I agree with Simon's basic point. But, I think what Carole is driving at is that we have an author who completely controls what happens with these characters. So ... if you're pairing "yourself" off in a fictional universe with one of several potential romantic partners, aren't you the least bit likely to put yourself with the *hero,* who happens to be your favorite character?" I see your point. It is JKR who gets the choice and not us and so she will come, possibly, to a different decision to the one we would like. Simon From lrcjestes at msn.com Fri Oct 13 17:21:37 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:21:37 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: DUNE References: <8s7b4e+9reb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003b01c0353a$23a70ea0$bfac153f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3419 > > Did you see it when first out? It had been edited so badly the plot > fell apart (like the recent Avengers movie). I understand that when > it had a lot of removed footage restored, it became rather better. > Yes I did see it when it first came out....must have been in the early 80's because I was still an undergraduate. I hope it got better, it could not have gotten worse....can't say that I'm going to dash out and rent it though..... > However, I also understand that the Dune books are the inverse of > Trek > movies - the even-numbered ones are the bad ones. > I'll have to keep that in mind....maybe if my kids ever get into those books, I'll read them..... carole From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Oct 13 17:25:55 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:25:55 -0000 Subject: Hermione and JKR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s7gj3+eir8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3420 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" < simon.branford at h...> wrote: > Penny wrote: "She also didn't seem to have the sense that Hermione had made > it further in the final adventures of the first 3 books than Ron had. I > think there have probably been other critics who have echoed this point & > caused JKR to be irritated by the whole line." > > Making something out of Hermione getting further in the three book endings > that Ron is taking things a bit far. CoS and PoA have Hermione and Ron at > similar levels. In PS the situation would not have worked if we had had > Snape's puzzle before the chess. Part of the point was that Hermione was to > go back and get help. Ron sacrificed himself to get the others through the > chess game. I think they have had equal involvement in the book endings > (this can be extended to include GoF as they did nothing to help Harry get > away from Voldemort). Hmm. I don't think making something of the fact that it was Hermione, not Ron, who was the last to leave Harry's side (eventually, he faces every final confrontation alone) in two of the books is taking things a bit far. I think you're right that Ron and Hermione have had equal involvement in the book endings, and I think that's exactly the point that Penny was making -- she was rebuffing the Salon author's assertion that Hermione was entirely left out. This could simply be because I have read the article that Penny was talking about "Harry Potter's Girl Trouble" and it was a ghastly piece of trash. The author took quotes enormously out of context and just generally made such a hash out of the books that they were barely recognizable. I was surprised Salon even printed it, but I suppose they like controversy. I'd provide a link to it, but I'm not sure I'd feel right inflicting in on the list. As for Harry needing Hermione, JKR herself said in an interview "Harry needs her (Hermione) badly." (Must go dig up link. Sigh.) Of course, he also needs Ron; no one denies that. Just in different ways. From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 13 17:28:00 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:28:00 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <8s77gp+fa8m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7gn0+6jvk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3421 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > I am a believer in Snape being at least part-vampire. On pg > 70 when Harry is meeting Quirrell for the first time, Quirrell > mentions he has to pick up a new book on vampires. He looked > terrified at the very thought. Pg 71 - They say he (Quirrell) met > vampires in the Black Forest. In GoF pg 654, Voldemort mentions a > young wizard, a teacher of Dumbledore's, wandered across my path in > the forest. In Voldemort's seach for immortality, did he become part > vampire himself? Bk 1, chap 17, pg 288, Quirrell refers to Snape > as, "swooping around like an overgrown bat". One other thing, chap > 13, pg 226, in the meeting between Quirrell and Snape the following > conversation takes place: > "You don't want me as your enemy, Quirrell," said Snape, taking a > step towards him. > "I-I don't know what you----" > "You know perfectly well what I mean." > > Again, I think Snape is at least part-vampire and Quirrell knows > this, possibly from Voldemort? > chap 11 Hagrid knows a lot about Snape's past. He knows Snape would > never harm any of the kids. In chapter 8, pg 141, ater Harry is > complaining to Hagrid after his first class with Snape, Harry says > that Snape seemed to really hate him. "Rubbish!" said Hagrid. "Why > should he?" Yet Harry couldn't help thinking that Hagrid didn't > quite meet his eyes when he said that. Yep, Hagrid knows alot but he > isn't telling....yet. Some really good observations about Snape. There do seem to be an awful lot of references to vampires in the books, without us actually running into any yet - that we know about. Have we done one of our weekly character analyses about Snape yet? If not, the writer should reference Marthas comments above. -- Joywitch From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 17:47:54 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:47:54 -0000 Subject: DUNE and Interim reading In-Reply-To: <8s7b4e+9reb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7hsa+sc90@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3422 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > > However, I also understand that the Dune books are the inverse of > Trek > movies - the even-numbered ones are the bad ones. The first one's great, the second is on the mediocre/terrible border, and the third's ok. The ones after that are just murdered trees, IMHO. Guy Gavriel Kay was mentioned as interim reading. I can't recommend him enough. His first three books ("The Wandering Fire," "The Summer Tree," and ... the other one) were a rather standard fantasy trilogy, but his later works are what can only be called alternate world historical fantasy. Jane Austen's always on my list, and most of Georgette Heyer. Best way to spend a rainy fall afternoon is with hot chocolate and a copy of Heyer's "The Talisman Ring." Terry Pratchett. "Wyrd Sisters" has the funniest take on Macbeth you'll ever read. "Reaper Man" is one of my favorites, as is anything with the Ankh-Morpork Watch. Avoid "The Last Continent" unless you're Australian. Last but not least, the late English author Sarah Caudwell wrote four books, "Thus Was Adonis Murdered," "The Sirens Sang of Murder," "The Shortest Way to Hades," and "The Sibyll in Her Grave." Sadly, she passed away this year. Wonderful mysteries, not easy to find, but well worth the effort. Try your local mystery bookstore if you're interested. ht P.S. Oh, and Phillip Pullman's "The Golden Compass" and "The Subtle Knife." The third book's out in hardback, but I've forgotten the title. From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 17:58:42 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:58:42 -0000 Subject: Hermione and JKR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s7igi+h7rm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3423 That's a pretty utilitarian point of view regarding friendship. Hermione's "worth" shouldn't be judged by what practical things she has to offer Harry; isn't the fact that they are friends enough? Instead of focusing on the things she does, think of the reasons she does them: for instance, how she helps Harry study his spells out of genuinely caring for him. She is as good a friend to Harry as Ron is. As far as her being a strong charactter, although she doesn't handle the Scabbers/ Crookshanks problems in PoA well, by GoF she is more mature than either Harry or Ron in the way she tries to get them to stop fighting. She also seems able to handle relationships better than either of them: she deals with Krum better than Harry or Ron deal with either their dates, or with Cho and Fleur. I am thinking of how Krum seems to be a little too infatuated with her at times, but she doesn't let herself get too caught up in the relationship. <[post#3395]: Definition of heroine (from the OED online): 1) In ancient mythology, a female intermediate between a woman and a goddess; a demi-goddess.> JKR, as the creator of the Harry Potter "universe", can be considered that universe's goddess, and if Hermione is her representation of herself in that universe, this definition of a heroine fits very well. From luna94301 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 18:17:35 2000 From: luna94301 at yahoo.com (Linda W) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:17:35 -0000 Subject: Hermione and JKR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s7jk0+pgml@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3424 Hi, Out of lurkdom to join in on this thread. First, I should say that I was the person who wrote that I thought Hermione was overdone in a lot of fanfics. And after reading the London Times articles, I got the impression that JKR was irritated by the request for a strong character implying that Hermione as she is with both her strengths and insecurities is not enough. In fact the article quotes her "I am thinking 'Isn't Hermione strong enough for you?' She is the most brilliant of the three and they need her. Harry needs her badly. "But my hero is a boy and at the age he has been girls simply do not figure that much. Increasingly, they do. But, at 11, I think it would be extremely contrived to throw in a couple of feisty, gorgeous, brilliant-at-maths and great-at-fixing-cars girls." IMO I like the Hermione as she is and think she offers a view of being a strong character and "way to be" without having to be the feisty, gorgeous, brilliant. etc .girl. This is where my comment came from regarding the fanfiction Hermione, who is increasingly becoming the feisty, brilliant do-it all girl. I hope JKR does not allow that to happen in the canon. And simultaneously, I do want the development of other female characters in the canon. If you will - other ways to be in the world as a female. There is lot of development in the male roles - Harry, Ron, Sirius, Draco but not in the female roles. And this circles back to my comment on fanfiction, I like the way Ginny has developed in ASA, DD, and PoU because she offers another way to interact with the world as a female. For example, I like her struggle with her crush in DD and her "file - accept w/o question" which she eventually won't be able to accept because it offers a different yet equally real way to be. Does this make sense? Linda From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Oct 13 18:28:52 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:28:52 -0000 Subject: Hermione and JKR In-Reply-To: <8s7jk0+pgml@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7k94+2d76@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3425 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Linda W" wrote: > Hi, > > > And simultaneously, I do want the development of other female > characters in the canon. If you will - other ways to be in the world > as > a female. There is lot of development in the male roles - Harry, > Ron, > Sirius, Draco but not in the female roles. And this circles back to > my > comment on fanfiction, I like the way Ginny has developed in ASA, DD, > and PoU because she offers another way to interact with the world as > a > female. For example, I like her struggle with her crush in DD and her > "file - accept w/o question" which she eventually won't be able to > accept because it offers a different yet equally real way to be. > > Does this make sense? > > Linda *looks curious* File, accept w/o question? I guess I don't quite know what you mean by that. But thank you very much for saying you liked DD's Ginny, I absolutely appreciate it. I also hope that JKR takes some time to develop Ginny in the canon -- I do like her character. From particle at urbanet.ch Fri Oct 13 18:32:19 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:32:19 +0200 Subject: [OT] Pratchett and Pullman [Was: Re: DUNE and Interim reading] References: <8s7hsa+sc90@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00e501c03543$ec61fea0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3426 Terry Pratchett's Discworld series is well-written and absolutely hilarious, especially the ones about Death or the Death of Rats (Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather...). I'm actually reading one of them, Soul Music, for the first time right now. If you liked, oh, say, Douglas Adams (his Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series is also great), Terry Pratchett is the fantasy equivalent. > P.S. Oh, and Phillip Pullman's "The Golden Compass" and "The Subtle > Knife." The third book's out in hardback, but I've forgotten the > title. You're talking about the His Dark Materials trilogy. The third book is The Amber Spyglass, which I haven't read (why do I need to live in a country where English books are about twice as expensive as in the States and where it takes forever for anything interesting to arrive?), but I have the other two books, and highly recommend them - although they're supposedly Young Adults books. ~Firebolt From luna94301 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 18:47:02 2000 From: luna94301 at yahoo.com (Linda W) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:47:02 -0000 Subject: Hermione and JKR In-Reply-To: <8s7k94+2d76@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7lb6+8rlm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3427 The "file..." was Ginny's in the recent ASA chapter. > *looks curious* File, accept w/o question? I guess I don't quite know > what you mean by that. But thank you very much for saying you liked > DD's Ginny, I absolutely appreciate it. I also hope that JKR takes > some time to develop Ginny in the canon -- I do like her character. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 13 18:50:21 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:50:21 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <8s77gp+fa8m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7lhd+4evr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3428 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > > pg 118 Slytherin > I am hoping they play a big role in defeating Voldemort. In > book 1 pg 80 Hagrid say's, "There's not a single witch or wizard who > went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." In one of the other books he > seems to contradict that statement. I agree, "using any means to > achieve their ends" doesn't mean it is always for evil. > > pg 134 garlic > I am a believer in Snape being at least part-vampire. On pg > 70 when Harry is meeting Quirrell for the first time, Quirrell > mentions he has to pick up a new book on vampires. He looked > terrified at the very thought. Pg 71 - They say he (Quirrell) met > vampires in the Black Forest. In GoF pg 654, Voldemort mentions a > young wizard, a teacher of Dumbledore's, wandered across my path in > the forest. In Voldemort's seach for immortality, did he become part > vampire himself? Bk 1, chap 17, pg 288, Quirrell refers to Snape > as, "swooping around like an overgrown bat". One other thing, chap > 13, pg 226, in the meeting between Quirrell and Snape the following > conversation takes place: > "You don't want me as your enemy, Quirrell," said Snape, taking a > step towards him. > "I-I don't know what you----" > "You know perfectly well what I mean." > > Again, I think Snape is at least part-vampire and Quirrell knows > this, possibly from Voldemort? > > chap 8 I think we will see the sleeping potion, Draught of Living > Death, in one of the future books. Helpful information to know that > the bezoar stone will save you from most poisons. I think that will > come up later also. > > chap 11 Hagrid knows a lot about Snape's past. He knows Snape would > never harm any of the kids. In chapter 8, pg 141, ater Harry is > complaining to Hagrid after his first class with Snape, Harry says > that Snape seemed to really hate him. "Rubbish!" said Hagrid. "Why > should he?" Yet Harry couldn't help thinking that Hagrid didn't > quite meet his eyes when he said that. Yep, Hagrid knows alot but he > isn't telling....yet. > > Martha Good Snape observations. I'm not so sure about agreeing with the vampire part, but there's more to Snape than meets the eye, health-wise. In every single book, Rowling never fails to mention Snape's *sallow* complexion. In fact in GoF, Snape points his "yellowed finger" at Harry. Sallow or yellowed skin or jaundice is a sign of illness, especially in an adult. Either that or Snape has been exposed to his chemicals/potions more than he should. ;-) Milz From lrcjestes at msn.com Fri Oct 13 18:50:11 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:50:11 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione and JKR References: <8s7k94+2d76@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002001c03546$6b65f240$ccd1113f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3429 > *looks curious* File, accept w/o question? I guess I don't quite know > what you mean by that. Cassie.... the Harry Potter accept w/o question file...is in ASA ...... carole From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Oct 13 18:51:11 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:51:11 -0000 Subject: Hermione and JKR In-Reply-To: <8s7lb6+8rlm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7liv+23mu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3430 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Linda W" wrote: > The "file..." was Ginny's in the recent ASA chapter. > Aha! Yes, I liked that conflict too. Although if I were her I would have killed Harry. But that's for another egroup. :) From particle at urbanet.ch Fri Oct 13 19:00:25 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:00:25 +0200 Subject: Ginny [Was: Re: Hermione and JKR] References: <8s7k94+2d76@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011801c03547$dc5b6060$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3431 Cassandra said: < also hope that JKR takes some time to develop Ginny in the canon -- I do like her character.> It's been bugging me recently the way Ginny gets portrayed in fanfiction - Hermione's becoming too feisty, Ginny is becoming a shy, blushing little thing. I'm rereading CoS at the moment, and in Chapter Three (the Burrow), Ron clearly says that Ginny 'never shuts up normally', and from what we see of her in PS and also after CoS, she definitely has a personality - maybe she's a little less rambunctious than her brothers, but she's got a sense of humor and does stand up for herself - and she sounds like a Weasley, if you look at the way she talks. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a teenage Ginny who wasn't either incredibly shy or had a life which revolved around Harry. And how come I keep reading fics where she grows up to be a fashion designer? It was okay when Lori did it, but it's gotten reeeeeeaaaally old... ~Firebolt From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Oct 13 19:16:27 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:16:27 -0000 Subject: Ginny [Was: Re: Hermione and JKR] In-Reply-To: <011801c03547$dc5b6060$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8s7n2b+bq3o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3432 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Firebolt" wrote: > Cassandra said: > > < also hope that JKR takes > some time to develop Ginny in the canon -- I do like her character.> > > It's been bugging me recently the way Ginny gets portrayed in fanfiction - > Hermione's becoming too feisty, Ginny is becoming a shy, blushing little > thing. I'm rereading CoS at the moment, and in Chapter Three (the Burrow), > Ron clearly says that Ginny 'never shuts up normally', and from what we see > of her in PS and also after CoS, she definitely has a personality - maybe > she's a little less rambunctious than her brothers, but she's got a sense of > humor and does stand up for herself - and she sounds like a Weasley, if you > look at the way she talks. > > Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a teenage Ginny who wasn't > either incredibly shy or had a life which revolved around Harry. And how > come I keep reading fics where she grows up to be a fashion designer? It was > okay when Lori did it, but it's gotten reeeeeeaaaally old... > > ~Firebolt Hmph! Well, she's not shy in *my* fic, and she grows up to work with dragons (like Charlie.) Oh dear, gave that away. Never mind. But I agree with your essential point; I'm also bored with stories where she's a shy blushing thing. All the Weasleys are strong-willed; it makes sense that she would be, too. (And I think she was a magazine editor in Lori's story...) From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 13 19:30:20 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:30:20 -0000 Subject: Vampires Message-ID: <8s7nsc+gsuf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3433 Since I have already mentioned that I like the Snape/vampire theory I want to give a few more reasons for my belief's. Surely, we are going to see vampires sometime in this series. We have seen unicorns, fairies, centaurs, werewolves, giant spiders, house-elves, giants, and half-giants. I must mention here that if it is possible for a wizard and a giant to have a child than anything is possible, even a half-vampire! There are references to Snape's robes. Bk 2 (Bloomsbury) pg 62 There, his black robes rippling in a cold breeze, stood Severus Snape. Bk 4 (American)pg 426 "keep walking, then!" Snape snarled, and he brushed past them, his long black cloak billowing out behind him. I think of the old vampire movies with their capes always blowing out! How about this one: Hermione and her teeth. Bk 4 (American) pg 300 Hermione was showing Snape her teeth. Snape looked coldly at Hermione, then said, "I see no difference." I just think this would be so funny if he were a vampire and was commenting on the size of HER teeth. In book 3 there are other references. First we have to remember the time Snape taught the DADA class when Lupin was ill. He had them learning about werewolves in hopes that someone would catch on about Lupin. Of course, when Lupin came back and heard this he wasn't to excited about that. Later the DADA class evidently started studying about vampires. Bk 3 (Bloomsbury) pg 204 Harry and Neville meet in the hall. Harry tells Neville (hoping to get away from him) that he was going to go to the library and do that vampire essay for Lupin....Neville wants to go to. Neville replies, " I don't understand that thing aobut the garlic at all - do they have to eat it, or--Neville broke off with a small gasp, looking over Harry's shoulder. It was Snape. They were discussing garlic and vampires and here comes Snape. A few pages later (213) Lupin rescues Harry and Ron from Snapes office. Lupin folds up the marauder's map and then says, "Harry, Ron, come with me, I need a word about my vampire essay. Excuse us, Severus." Again, vampire references when Snape is around. Also, in bk 3 pg 313 Seamus and Dean Thomas are wondering what they will get next year for a DADA teacher. "Maybe a vampire," suggested Dean Thomas hopefully. Just a few paragraphs later Harry says Snape's behaviour towards him had been quite alarming: Harry wouldn't have thought it possible that Snape's dislike for him could increase, but it certainly had done. A muscle twitched unpleasantly at the corner of Snape's thin mouth every time he looked at Harry, and he was constantly flexing his fingers, as though itching to place them around Harry's throat. Hmmmm............ GoF references (B) pg 566 Ron speaking about Snape: "Maybe - hang on - how fast d'you reckon he could've gotten down to the forest? D'you reckon he could've beaten you and Dumbledore there?" Not unless he can turn himself into a bat or something," said Harry. He does spend a lot of time in the dungeons also. I know there are many reasons why it would seem he couldn't be one. He goes out in the daylight, he appears to eat at the teacher's table. His skin color is yellow and not white. The only reference to Snape ever looking white is in the first book on pg 224 after he was the referee at the Quidditch match: he saw Snape land nearby, white-faced and tight-lipped (maybe those teeth were trying to come out). Maybe he had been out in the sun too long. Oh well.....just a thought. If Lupin can control his problems somewhat with a potion could not Snape, the potion master, do the same thing? One more thing, in GoF (B) pg 651 Voldemort is talking to the Death Eaters and he is telling them some of his plans: I shall have all my devoted servants returned to me, and an army of creatures whom all fear....... May I ask, what kind of creatures? We know Dumbledore wants to get the giants on his side. Maybe Dumbly could use some help from creatures such as vampires.....could not Snape help in that matter if he were one? Well, enough for now. These are just some ideas..... Martha From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 13 19:34:43 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:34:43 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <8s7lhd+4evr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7o4k+ibm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3434 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > > > > > pg 118 Slytherin > > I am hoping they play a big role in defeating Voldemort. In > > book 1 pg 80 Hagrid say's, "There's not a single witch or wizard > who > > went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." In one of the other books he > > seems to contradict that statement. I agree, "using any means to > > achieve their ends" doesn't mean it is always for evil. > > > > pg 134 garlic > > I am a believer in Snape being at least part-vampire. On pg > > 70 when Harry is meeting Quirrell for the first time, Quirrell > > mentions he has to pick up a new book on vampires. He looked > > terrified at the very thought. Pg 71 - They say he (Quirrell) met > > vampires in the Black Forest. In GoF pg 654, Voldemort mentions a > > young wizard, a teacher of Dumbledore's, wandered across my path in > > the forest. In Voldemort's seach for immortality, did he become > part > > vampire himself? Bk 1, chap 17, pg 288, Quirrell refers to Snape > > as, "swooping around like an overgrown bat". One other thing, chap > > 13, pg 226, in the meeting between Quirrell and Snape the following > > conversation takes place: > > "You don't want me as your enemy, Quirrell," said Snape, taking a > > step towards him. > > "I-I don't know what you----" > > "You know perfectly well what I mean." > > > > Again, I think Snape is at least part-vampire and Quirrell knows > > this, possibly from Voldemort? > > > > chap 8 I think we will see the sleeping potion, Draught of Living > > Death, in one of the future books. Helpful information to know > that > > the bezoar stone will save you from most poisons. I think that > will > > come up later also. > > > > chap 11 Hagrid knows a lot about Snape's past. He knows Snape > would > > never harm any of the kids. In chapter 8, pg 141, ater Harry is > > complaining to Hagrid after his first class with Snape, Harry says > > that Snape seemed to really hate him. "Rubbish!" said Hagrid. > "Why > > should he?" Yet Harry couldn't help thinking that Hagrid didn't > > quite meet his eyes when he said that. Yep, Hagrid knows alot but > he > > isn't telling....yet. > > > > Martha > > Good Snape observations. I'm not so sure about agreeing with the > vampire part, but there's more to Snape than meets the eye, > health-wise. > > In every single book, Rowling never fails to mention Snape's *sallow* > complexion. In fact in GoF, Snape points his "yellowed finger" at > Harry. Sallow or yellowed skin or jaundice is a sign of illness, > especially in an adult. Either that or Snape has been exposed to his > chemicals/potions more than he should. > ;-) Milz Yeah - I have a feeling Snape might be using potions more than he should or maybe he HAS to use them quite often. The only other character JKR describes with sallow skin is Krum. Martha From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 13 19:36:49 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:36:49 -0000 Subject: Ch. 14: Character Development In-Reply-To: <8s78nq+l3qg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7o8h+lk00@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3435 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Karin " wrote: > One of the interesting things to me in chapter 14 is that we seem to > learn a lot about several characters, simply by their reactions to > the Unforgiveable Curses. > > 1. The majority of the class, including Ron: Most of the class > thinks the lesson was really amazing and cool. Not having any > personal experience relating to the Unforgiveable Curses, they don't > recognize how horrible they really are. Moody says he is trying to > make them more aware, but most of the students leave the classroom > just as insulated as when they entered that day. > > 2. Hermione: Hermione watches not only what happens to the spiders, > but the reactions of those around her. She sees Neville's reaction > to the Cruciatus Curse, and demands that Professor Moody stop. > Hermione hasn't had the personal experience either, but her reaction > is different from that of most of the class. I think we learn from > that that she is not only intelligent and observant, but that she is > also an extremely caring and thoughtful person. > > 3. Neville: Neville's reaction is a big surprise to us, or at least > it was to me. Up until this point, Neville has pretty much been a > one-dimensional character. But when we see how upset he is by the > seeing the Cruciatus Curse performed, we realize that there is a lot > more to him than meets than eye. > > 4. Harry: Harry's reaction to the curses is also a contrast to that > of most of the class. He has just learned how his parents died, and > there is nothing amazing or cool about that. > > From their reactions here, we see that most of the students will be > shocked by Voldemort's return. It will be a very rude awakening. > But for Harry and Neville (especially Neville), his potential return > has been hanging over their heads for quite some time. As for > Hermione, she seems to know about practicing constant vigilance > without the help of Moody. I don't think the reactions of the other students were totally off. Seeing those curses was "cool" because they were able to depersonalize it. (I remember in school when our professor showed a tape of an appendectomy. The students who had had appendectomies were the least fascinated. The rest of us were fascinated not because we were insensitive to our appendectomized classmates, but because we had never seen an appendectomy before.) Harry and Neville could not depersonalize those curses so it wasn't "cool" to them. Harry's reaction wasn't surprizing and in retrospect neither was Neville's. ;-) Milz From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 19:43:01 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:43:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie uniforms - A Question and a suggestion Message-ID: <20001013194301.5963.qmail@web4801.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3436 --- Firebolt wrote: > Hello, > > I saw the movie stills with the Hogwarts students in uniform the other > day (thanks to whoever put them up in the Files section!), and I remember > someone asking how they had the House-color sweater trim before they were > Sorted - my suggestion is that maybe the trim is purple (which I'm > guessing is the Hogwarts color, seeing as it's the color of the letter's > seal) until they get Sorted, and the trim magically changes color? Good point. I was thinking something similar. > Also, I'm wondering - does it really make sense to have variations in > uniform for the different houses? Because I'm assuming that by the time > we get up to CoS, Harry and Co. have thorough experience in identifying > Houses, even if the colors might be really close (i.e. Ravenclaw and > Slytherin) - so how come they mistook Penelope Clearwater, who would have > Ravenclaw blue trim, for a Slytherin during the Polyjuice incident? I'd always pictured the robes themselves as black for everyone, and the same style. With that assumption, you could identify members of other houses as you get to know individuals. Or you may just see them around (what colors they carry at Quidditch games, where they sit in the dining hall, etc), and get to know their house. Since Penelope was a few years ahead of Harry and Ron, and had no activities in common with either of them them, they probably just didn't notice her enough to note what house she was in (except that it wasn't Gryffindor). Using the same assumption, "Crabbe" and "Goyle" couldn't be expected to know Penelope's house any more than Ron and Harry. But they probably would know that she wasn't a Slytherin, which is probably why she was suspicious. Or maybe it was because they were male and asking for directions (just kidding). Just my 2 knutes, Melanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 13 19:45:49 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:45:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny [Was: Re: Hermione and JKR] References: <8s7k94+2d76@eGroups.com> <011801c03547$dc5b6060$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <39E7666D.5D5BB016@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3437 Hi -- Firebolt wrote: > It's been bugging me recently the way Ginny gets portrayed in > fanfiction - Hermione's becoming too feisty, Ginny is becoming a shy, > blushing little thing. I'm rereading CoS at the moment, and in Chapter > Three (the Burrow), Ron clearly says that Ginny 'never shuts up > normally', and from what we see of her in PS and also after CoS, she > definitely has a personality - maybe she's a little less rambunctious > than her brothers, but she's got a sense of humor and does stand up > for herself - and she sounds like a Weasley, if you look at the way > she talks. Well, maybe it's because in the canon, we're in Harry's POV, and when Ginny's around Harry, she is a blushing, shy person for the most part. I agree that she seems to be standing up for herself a bit more -- in the 2-3 lines that she has in PoA & GoF that is. She doesn't figure much at all in the canon, so even though Ron has said she's a chatterbox & we all assume she's strong-willed because she's a Weasley, we've no real evidence of that. > Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing a teenage Ginny who > wasn't either incredibly shy or had a life which revolved around > Harry. And how come I keep reading fics where she grows up to be a > fashion designer? It was okay when Lori did it, but it's gotten > reeeeeeaaaally old... I'll second Cassie's Hmmph! She's not a fashion designer in PoU or ASA. She's a magazine editor. In fact, she's a successful business owner -- running her own magazine after building it from the ground up. Considering I don't even like her character much in the canon, I think she's been treated pretty darn fairly in the fanfic I've read (which isn't all that much I must confess). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 13 19:56:25 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:56:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione and JKR References: Message-ID: <39E768E9.50867708@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3438 Hi -- "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Making something out of Hermione getting further in the three book > endings that Ron is taking things a bit far. CoS and PoA have Hermione > and Ron at similar levels. In PS the situation would not have worked > if we had had Snape's puzzle before the chess. Part of the point was > that Hermione was to go back and get help. Ron sacrificed himself to > get the others through the chess game. I think they have had equal > involvement in the book endings (this can be extended to include GoF > as they did nothing to help Harry get away from Voldemort). Cassie's right -- I wasn't trying to minimize Ron's role in the final adventures but rather rebuffing the Salon article which completely dismisses Hermione's involvement. I agree that Ron's sacrifice was the first step in SS. Then, you have Hermione out of action & Ron getting part way with Harry in CoS. Then, you have Ron out of action & Hermione making it part way with Harry in PoA. I just think the article of that article was truly very off-base in her analysis of the female characters. > McGonagall maybe a strong character but she, IMO, has too little > involvement in the stories. Dumbledore is ahead of her in the pecking > order and Snape is roughly level with her. McGonagall is Deputy Head Mistress. She's not exactly level with Snape IMO. She's also head of Gryffindor & teaches Transfiguration, the post Dumbledore held before becoming Head Master. She's one of 7 registered animagi in the last century. She's got just as much on-screen time as Dumbledore in my book. I think we also see as much of McGonagall as we do of Snape for the most part. > Also we have Sirius in there as well. There is just a lack of female > characters in the story - too many are bit parts. Interesting that as a female, I'd disagree. I don't really see it as a male-centered series at all. > Does she do anything but solve problems? Surely she has to be able to > offer something else to Harry? There will come a time when Harry has > no problems to solve (well there maybe!), what will she do then? I agree with Steve points here (she shows considerably more warmth & compassion than either of the boys so far & she seems much more capable of dealing with interpersonal relationships). I'd add that she also already has done more than just solve problems. She was Harry's one & only friend in GoF when Ron abandoned him -- she did *that* out of friendship & loyalty & it didn't have anything to do with solving problems or providing the bookwormish backup. She showed up with toast & offered to take a walk with him the morning after the Goblet incident -- perceptively picking up that Ron had had a fight with Harry the night before & that Harry might need to talk it out. So, she's not *just* a problem-solver. Penny (who should perhaps be given the title of Defender of Hermione or some such) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 20:09:34 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:09:34 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sirius' motorcycle Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3439 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brian " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" > wrote: > > > > Brian said > > "The statement I can't quite figure out is > > that Sirius gives his bike to Hagrid and tells him that he's not > going to need it anymore." > > > > > I think it is because it is now clear to him that Peter is the > trator and he intends to track him down and kill him (possibly > expecting to be killed in the porcess?) > > > I guess that's possible but hasn't it been mentioned that Peter > was by far the weaker wizard so wouldn't Sirius believe that he would > have a pretty good chance of catching him without being permanently > injured? Maybe he thought he might be locked up for killing Peter > but IIRC the Ministry (Barty Crouch Sr.) at the time was overreacting > by sentencing people without trials so Sirius would have good reason > to expect to be let off. I see Sirius as darn near suicidal with grief over the death of the Potters and his failure to protect them. It is typical of someone contemplating suicide to give away their most treasured possessions. Pippin All of this is true but you are forgetting that as far as the world (dumbledore) knows Black is the potter's secret keeper - after he kills Wormtail no one is going to beleive him that wormtail was the secret keeper - they are just going to think it is another dispicable act of unreasoned violence and Fudge is not going to pardon him because Dumbleodre won't speak up for him.(IMNSHO) storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 20:16:05 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:16:05 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3440 ---Original Message Follows---- From: Amanda Lewanski Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:53:40 -0500 storm stanford wrote: > "If Fudge were a DE there would have been a gap in the circle for him, since he was at Hogwarts and therefore unable to respond to the summons." > > but there were gaps in the circle, one of them was for Volde's most loyal follower (can't remember the exsact quote - don't have GoF to hand). at the time I assumed it was Barty Jnr but that would just be JKR for you wouldn't it? I thought she was trying to throw us off track by making us think of Snape. --Amanda See - that's that tricky JKR for you - could be fudge, could be snape could be another charator, Roll on Novemeber 2001! (though maybe not even be revealed then! ARGH the suspence!!!) storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From klaatu at primenet.com Fri Oct 13 20:22:50 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:22:50 -0700 Subject: JKR interview Dec 1999 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3441 I just finished listening to an interview of JKR on a radio call-in show from October 1999. She made several points during this talk that I haven't seen mentioned here so far, although I think the interview itself may have been mentioned before. 1. Dumbledore -- she named him Dumbledore (meaning bumblebee) because he's fond of music and she imagined him going around humming to himself a lot. 2. One of the adult callers was telling her all the voices he used when reading the stories to his kids. He said he read Dumbledore as Sean Connery, and JKR said that she always imagined John Gielgud's voice when she thought of D. She also says Hagrid's accent is West Country (near Wales) and says a few phrases in that accent so you can hear what she means. The caller went on to say that he did a Margaret Thatcher voice when he did Prof. McGonnagall, and JKR said that was a good choice. (She also said that McGonnagall was the name of Scotland's worst poet, LOL!) 3. Someone asked if Snape would fall in love. She laughed out loud quite a bit at this, and said "Who would want Snape in love with them?" and then said that we'd hear a bit about Snape's love life in Book 7. 4. Hagrid was named after the English slang meaning a person who'd had a bad night, as he was a drinker and had "many" bad nights. She also said Hermione was named after the Shakespearean character. 5. She said that we'd learn a bit more about Lily Potter in Book 5, but that the real major revelation about Lily would not come until Book 7. 6. When speaking of Draco or Snape, I did not get the impression that she was planning any personality changes for them -- they are nasty unpleasant people, based on people she'd known during her own life, and will likely stay that way during the whole series. There's lots more, but I won't go on -- the interview is nearly an hour long, and is streamed -- you'll need Real Audio to listen. (I wish there was a way to save it to be re-heard, because net traffic congestion caused several bits to be lost in transmission). You can order a tape of the show for $15.00. The address is: http://www.theconnection.org/archive/1999/12/1228a.shtml ================================================== Website of the Week: http://www.rider.edu/users/suler/zenstory/zenstory.html (Zen Stories) Current Book: "Secret of the Golden Flower" transl. by Richard Wilhelm Quote: "God is a comic playing to an audience that's afraid to laugh. --Voltaire (1694-1778) ================================================== From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 13 20:44:08 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:44:08 -0000 Subject: Vampires In-Reply-To: <8s7o4k+ibm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s7s6p+fjl9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3442 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: . > Yeah - I have a feeling Snape might be using potions more than he > should or maybe he HAS to use them quite often. The only other > character JKR describes with sallow skin is Krum. > > Martha Actually, it was thinking about Krum that made me wonder about Snape. Krum is from the Balkans, he's very thin, he has that skin, and Harry observes that he flies like he doesn't even need a broom.GOF ch.8 Anyway, thanks for backing me up, I don't feel like a voice crying in the wilderness anymore. Pippin From karob_7 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 21:18:38 2000 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (Karin ) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:18:38 -0000 Subject: Defender of Hermione In-Reply-To: <39E768E9.50867708@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8s7u7e+tt8c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3443 > > Penny (who should perhaps be given the title of Defender of Hermione or > some such) > I can just see it: Hermione, surrounded by Dementors, pulls out her wand (thinking of Harry of course) and shouts, "EXPECTO PATRONUM!" And out of her wand charges a silvery Penny, who promptly chases the Dementors away. :) From donnadr at gte.net Fri Oct 13 21:32:13 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:32:13 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: book/movie References: <20001013115826.2410.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201c0355d$0e159520$5da2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3444 Hi Anake, There is absolutely nothing like a good obsession to get the heart pumping and Harry is one of my favorites. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Anake To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: book/movie --- Donna Rae wrote: > Oh yeah, Brian.. I read both Jurassic Park and The Lost World. The movies didn't > even come close, especially The Lost World. As far as Harry goes, it will be > like David Copperfield and Hamlet - a good movie, but you can't replace the book; > it will always be a classic. Jurassic Park came closer than The Lost World, although I do love the movies. JP came out when I was 11 and I was OBSESSED (I can't stress that word enough) about dinosaurs, especially velociraptors, and this obsession went on until the end of 1997, after The Lost World. Now I OBSESS over Harry Potter. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 13 21:31:06 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:31:06 +0100 Subject: Hermione, JKR and other things Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3445 I wrote: "There is just a lack of female characters in the story - too many are bit parts." Penny replied "Interesting that as a female, I'd disagree. I don't really see it as a male-centered series at all." I was not trying to say that the books are male-centred; they are Harry-centred. I just get the feeling that too many of the female characters are not developed as much as they could (Ginny is the character I am especially thinking of here), and maybe even should, be. Steve wrote: "She also seems able to handle relationships better than either of them: she deals with Krum better than Harry or Ron deal with either their dates, or with Cho and Fleur. I am thinking of how Krum seems to be a little too infatuated with her at times, but she doesn't let herself get too caught up in the relationship." Though this does not really excuse their actions, but it is worth noting that the boys' dates are second (or maybe even worse than that) choices. Hermione has been invited to the dance and has chosen to go with Krum. In Harry's case he has had no choice about the ball, he has had to find a date. Harry hates being in a position where he is elevated above everyone else, as he is due to him being a champion, and this ball is one of those occasions. His response is to do what is required of him and then vanish - a typical teenage response to a problem. I wrote: "Does she do anything but solve problems? Surely she has to be able to offer something else to Harry? There will come a time when Harry has no problems to solve (well there maybe!), what will she do then?" Steve replied: "That's a pretty utilitarian point of view regarding friendship. Hermione's "worth" shouldn't be judged by what practical things she has to offer Harry; isn't the fact that they are friends enough?" Penny wrote: "I agree with Steve points here (she shows considerably more warmth & compassion than either of the boys so far & she seems much more capable of dealing with interpersonal relationships). I'd add that she also already has done more than just solve problems." I was joking with my comment. I know that Hermione offers more but you, Penny, made out in the message that I responded to that Hermione and Harry are friends for the problems she could solve for him (or at least that is how I interpreted it). Penny wrote: "Penny (who should perhaps be given the title of Defender of Hermione or some such)" And also Defender of the right for HP to be on the NY Times adults' bestseller lists. I think the problem is that I do not like Hermione. She annoys me. Quite a few of the things that people see as being faults in her (taking her studies far too seriously, especially the PoA too many subjects incident, and taking the political stuff too far) are problems that I know, looking back at my teenage years, that other people had with me. I can see her doing things that I did, things that I now realise where either stupid or irrelevant and an inner voice in me is screaming: "Don't do it - there is no need" Firebolt wrote: "Terry Pratchett's Discworld series is well-written and absolutely hilarious, especially the ones about Death or the Death of Rats (Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather...). I'm actually reading one of them, Soul Music, for the first time right now" TP's books are great. I have read the entire Discworld series and find the ones centred on Death the best. He has a new book at soon (well at least in the UK - I do not know if he has simultaneous English speaking countries release of his book). I have met him twice - the second when he came to speak to a bunch of students. He is an amazing speaker and talks in the same way that his books are written - with footnotes everywhere! Simon From donnadr at gte.net Fri Oct 13 21:39:43 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:39:43 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] books / movies References: <001d01c03517$9b3d9c40$eb6a5ecf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <002f01c0355e$1a6071a0$5da2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3446 Hi carole... Dune was a funny movie. The actual movie was badly cut and you didn't have any background information at all. The extended version which was only broadcast on television, contains all the background information, but cuts out all the (offensive?) parts, so it still looks choppy. I have the extended version - it's almost three hours long and very good - of course, I'm a Kyle MacLaughlin fan and that helps - plus Patrick Stewart is also in it. The book was absolutely wonderful and much different than the movie, and since I saw the movie first, I knew how to pronounce all the names of the people and the worlds - which helped while reading. I didn't read the other Dune books but I will some day. I'm looking forward to it. Right now, I'm pretty caught up in Harry Potter (surprise!!!!) Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: lrcjestes To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] books / movies > Actually, I also have a suggestion, but it's not the usual sci-fic books, > and still one of the most famous and popular: Frank Herbert's "Dune" and > it's sequels. I think it can be compared to the LOTR and it's definitely > not for children. One of my favourites, Now there's a movie that IMO was awful. I'd never read the books, but I'd heard great things about them...so I went to see the movie. Now, maybe it was the atmosphere in which I saw the movie...it was in a drafthouse where they serve pizza and beer during the movie...so it was crowded, and people were getting up and waitresses were wandering through. I had a hard time hearing, and could make no sense whatsoever out of the plot...but it sticks out in my mind as one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Whenever my husband and I are referring to a ridiculous plotline in a movie...we tend to start chanting "the worm is the spice...the spice is the worm" and burst out laughing..... I mean no disrespect to the books, as I have heard from many people they are great, and maybe I will try them one of these days, but the movie surely turned me off attempting them for a long time...lets hope that doesn't happen to Harry. carole eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Oct 13 22:11:31 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:11:31 -0400 Subject: Mail order merchandise References: Message-ID: <39E78893.F34ACCAD@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3447 I just got my Personal Creations Catalog - the back cover has a Harry Potter Ornament & Stocking. The ornament is the same one as is on the wbstore.com site (I think - it's got Harry with 2 vials of clear liquid) and the stocking is something I've not seen yet - it has the same image of Harry as is on one of the mugs - where his legs are at 90 degree angles and he's holding his wand. It is item number 21.95 & costs 21.95 plus shipping - of course, you can have it personalized with the name of your favorite witch or wizard (up to 12 letters) The ornament is item number 7918 and is 9.95 plus shipping. The toll free number is 800 326 6626. Enjoy! From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 13 22:23:53 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:23:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading SS (American version) References: <8s77gp+fa8m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E78B79.46F33E83@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3448 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > > I am a believer in Snape being at least part-vampire. Again, > I think Snape is at least part-vampire and Quirrell knows > this, possibly from Voldemort? What sort of vampires are we talking, here? Folklorically, being part vampire is like being sort of pregnant. You are or you're not. It's a magical malady, like lycanthropy. Being preyed upon by a vampire either kills you, whereupon you usually become one yourself, or it doesn't, and you recover. But mommy vampires and daddy vampires don't make little ones; how can someone be part vampire? --Amanda From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 13 22:33:23 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:33:23 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <39E78B79.46F33E83@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s82jj+55m7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3449 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > mmarth at p... wrote: > > > > > I am a believer in Snape being at least part-vampire. Again, > > I think Snape is at least part-vampire and Quirrell knows > > this, possibly from Voldemort? > > What sort of vampires are we talking, here? Folklorically, being part > vampire is like being sort of pregnant. You are or you're not. It's a > magical malady, like lycanthropy. Being preyed upon by a vampire either > kills you, whereupon you usually become one yourself, or it doesn't, and you > recover. But mommy vampires and daddy vampires don't make little ones; how > can someone be part vampire? I threw in part/vampire as I have heard others mention that. Personally I believe he is just a vampire but how he got that way and how long he has been one I don't have any clue. And if we find out he is not.....well it has been fun thinking about it. Martha > > --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 13 22:42:41 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:42:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading SS (American version) References: <8s62bk+fhp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E78FE1.ECA8E6A5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3450 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > pg. 126--Why did Harry's scar hurt when Snape looked at him in > the hall the first time? > > Because it says he's looking right past Quirrell, therefore Voldemort > is facing Harry. Wow, didn't catch that! > > > pg. 140--What is a boar hound? (Fangs) > > A large black dog. Someone (Amanda, that was you, right?) send me a > nice description of the boarhound that I put on the creatures page of > the Lexicon. Search for Fang, you'll find it. They're not *all* black. Fang is, I think. They're dogs of the mastiff type that were used to hunt boars, hence the name. They're great big, strong jaws, slobber a lot--the kind of dog Hagrid ought to have. ---Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 13 22:44:34 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:44:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading SS (American version) References: <20001011133206.8343.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <39E50FCC.1F900361@ibm.net> <02f301c034c9$553ff6a0$cbc54b0c@cq5wu> <00a301c034d2$d3aa3e20$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39E79052.5089063B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3451 Denise Rogers wrote: > pg. 138--Why did Snape ask Harry "those" particular questions? What significance did that have? I thought that it was because they were easy? Pointing up his ignorance of the wizard world? Because surely Snape knows that Harry won't know, and uses it to ridicule him. --Amanda From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Oct 13 22:59:28 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 22:59:28 -0000 Subject: Movie uniforms - Another suggestion. Oh, and socks again... In-Reply-To: <007801c03480$e295cbe0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8s844g+4lcr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3452 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Firebolt" wrote: > Hello, > > I saw the movie stills with the Hogwarts students in uniform the other day (thanks to whoever put them up in the Files section!), and I remember someone asking how they had the House-color sweater trim before they were Sorted - my suggestion is that maybe the trim is purple (which I'm guessing is the Hogwarts color, seeing as it's the color of the letter's seal) until they get Sorted, and the trim magically changes color? I think black-and-white might be easier to deal with, technically. > Also, I'm wondering - does it really make sense to have variations in uniform for the different houses? Because I'm assuming that by the time we get up to CoS, Harry and Co. have thorough experience in identifying Houses, even if the colors might be really close (i.e. Ravenclaw and Slytherin) - so how come they mistook Penelope Clearwater, who would have Ravenclaw blue trim, for a Slytherin during the Polyjuice incident? It's possible that Penelope either 1) had her robe closed all the way, or 2) didn't have to be in uniform for what she was doing at the time. Speaking of CoS, and getting back to the "socks" topic, I'd still like to see the boys wearing shorts and kneesocks for the first couple years. Not only would it fit in with the dated, if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix- it feel of the wizarding world (long pants are fine for Muggle kids who can't use Leg-Warming Charms), but the ending of CoS would look great! Just picture Harry scraping off this huge, filthy sock that wraps all the way around Papa Malfoy's head when it lands; after it's thrown to Dobby, Lucius looks up the stairs to him; Harry just grins and pulls up his remaining kneesock as if to say, "yeah, you just got bested by kid!" From elfnorc at voyager.net Fri Oct 13 23:05:42 2000 From: elfnorc at voyager.net (Elf and Orc) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:05:42 -0400 Subject: books / movies References: <001d01c03517$9b3d9c40$eb6a5ecf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39E79546.3EC@voyager.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3453 Greetings; It wasn't just where you saw it. We collectively decided it was the worst movie ever when we saw it in college. A little girl sitting behind us said something about it being awful out loud and the mother corrected her. My room-mate leaned over to the mom and said, but you know she is right and spent the rest of the movie reading in the lobby. We had all loved the books and even got to hear Frank Herbert speak on campus. Tina lrcjestes wrote: > > Actually, I also have a suggestion, but it's not the usual sci-fic books, and still one of the most famous and popular: Frank Herbert's "Dune" and it's sequels. I think it can be compared to the LOTR and it's definitely not for children. One of my favourites, > > Now there's a movie that IMO was awful. I'd never read the books, but I'd heard great things about them...so I went to see the movie. Now, maybe it was the atmosphere in which I saw the movie...it was in a drafthouse where they serve pizza and beer during the movie...so it was crowded, and people were getting up and waitresses were wandering through. I had a hard time hearing, and could make no sense whatsoever out of the plot...but it sticks out in my mind as one of the worst movies I've ever seen. > > Whenever my husband and I are referring to a ridiculous plotline in a > movie...we tend to start chanting "the worm is the spice...the spice is the worm" and burst out laughing..... From elfnorc at voyager.net Fri Oct 13 23:10:04 2000 From: elfnorc at voyager.net (Elf and Orc) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:10:04 -0400 Subject: Books: Terry Goodkind & calendars References: <001d01c03517$9b3d9c40$eb6a5ecf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39E7964C.308E@voyager.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3454 Greetings; I have been listening to Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series on books on tape (currently on Temple of the Winds, Book 4) and they keep making me think of an x-rated, adult, very intense Harry Potter series. I am not seeing any copying or anything or a similarity in writing style but there are similarities. The hero has an invisibility cloak, his parents were both murdered. There were some other similarities as well but I am blanking. Has anyone else read/listened to this series? Walden Books called today to tell me that my Harry calendar is in. I was in Barnes and Noble last weekend and the clerk there told me there would absolutely be no merchandizing (unless later some with the movie) as JKR had not and would not sell the rights. Tina From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Fri Oct 13 23:15:59 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:15:59 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] prequels - my fantasies Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3455 all excellant but and what about a story about how/why snape came back to the bright? that JKR - she's going to busy for a VERY long time! storm ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Susan McGee" Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] prequels - my fantasies Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 06:01:10 -0000 well, my favorite would be for JKR to write about the four Marauders and their time at Hogwarts... then there's Dumbledore's affiliation with Nicholas Flamel, his defeat of the dark wizard G.. and what about a story of the young Albus Dumbledore and the Hogwarts of his day... also, the story of Molly and Arthur Weasley's love affair.... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 13 23:16:09 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:16:09 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <39E78B79.46F33E83@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s853p+1tej@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3456 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > What sort of vampires are we talking, here? Folklorically, being part > vampire is like being sort of pregnant. You are or you're not. It's a > magical malady, like lycanthropy. Being preyed upon by a vampire either > kills you, whereupon you usually become one yourself, or it doesn't, and you > recover. But mommy vampires and daddy vampires don't make little ones; how > can someone be part vampire? > > --Amanda Well, folklorically you are right. In the literary world, there are mommy and daddy vampires, in Terry Pratchett for example, and in JKR we have Fleur with her Veela grandmother. Some versions of the folklore veela are undead, also. I'm thinking of the wilis, most familiar from the ballet Giselle. There is the notorious CoS reference to werewolf cubs, which sounds like there can be mommy and daddy werewolves also. Some way, if Snape is a vampire, we have to explain how he can endure sunshine, and eat and so forth. The potion theory works; I'm just stuck on the part vampire idea because if Snape had a dual nature, it could explain how he could be lying to Voldemort and getting away with it. I like the idea that Snape's *human* side is the mean, nasty hating part, since vampires are notoriously only passionately in love with their next meal. Doesn't mess up the Snape loved Lily idea, IMHO, only makes it more poignant. Maybe I'll do a fanfic, like there aren't >8000 of them already. Are there any Snape's a vampire fanfics? Pippin From stevekimmel at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 01:16:15 2000 From: stevekimmel at yahoo.com (stevekimmel at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:16:15 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8s5i3m+437s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s8c4v+bqi9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3457 > Hmmm. It's interesting that you feel this way. Fudge's flip at the > end wasn't such a shock to me. If it had happened at the end of PoA, > I would have been much more surprised. I think his solicitousness (?)- > -not sure if that's the word I'm searching for, regarding L. Malfoy > at the QWC, sort of prepared me for his change at the end. He's a > bureaucrat after all, and more decidedly unfit for the position of > MoM. OTOH, when learning of Moody's 'true' identity, I COMPLETELY > lost my suspension of disbelief, very hard for me to swallow. > Through all the previous books, I was totally submersed in this > world, absolutely enthralled; but the above twist brought me right > out of the story. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed this book just as > much as the others, and truthfully, I did not find any > inconsistencies in the storyline that don't support the 'not really > Moody, but actually Crouch Jr.' thread. No holes as far as I could > tell. And, it was consistent with JKR's pattern of the > surprise 'whodunnit?' character at the end, but, for whatever reason, > this just didn't work for me. As for Fudge, I can't tell yet whether > he's really a DE, or just in denial. Someone's suggestion that he > may be under the Imperius curse is a good one, and seems very > possible to me. > > Kelley For me, Moody was obvious for the very first. Looking back I attribute it to chapter 13 and 14. In thirteen we see Moody abusing Draco Malfoy by turning him into a ferret and bouncing him up to the ceiling and slamming him down against the floor. Like everyone else I was pleased to see Draco get his just reward for being such a jerk. However I was suspicious. We had no reason to suspect Moody had any idea who Draco was so it was simply a teacher seriously abusing a student. Then in chapter 14 we have Moody breaking the rules again by torturing and finally killing innocent creatures. I may be wrong but other than the Boggart in the closet, I think this is the first time we actually saw anybody kill anything. To make it an innocent spider... I had Moody labelled as a bad guy from the start. Fudge, on the other hand, gave me no reason to believe he was anything but an officious beaureaucrat. Given he was constantly asking Dumbledore's advice in Philosopher's Stone and then obtusely refusing it in Goblet of Fire... I found it a jarring mismatch. Given Rowling's apparent love of characters who pretend to be one thing and then turn out to be something else, Snape who is really trying to protect Harry, Ron's pet rat who turns out to be a lacky for Voldemort, Moody who turns out to be someone else completely, I have little doubt that she will do it again. Fudge turning out to be a bad guy seems a minor flip compared to some of the others we've seen. I'm almost prepared to buy the theory that Nelville Longbottom is really Peter Pettigrew's son, raised by his grandmother after Peter's "death." From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Oct 14 01:20:15 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:20:15 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter og flammernes pokal Message-ID: <8s8ccf+pn8n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3458 Cover art for the Danish version of Book 4, Harry Potter og flammernes pokal, is now in the Files area. The Danish covers seem to be improving. As far as I know, our club has the most complete collection of international HP cover art on the Internet. Can anyone help fill in some of the missing countries? We already have most of Western Europe, Turkey, Japan, and Israel. But we're missing Korea, Taiwan, Mainland China, India and Thailand. It would also be nice to find bigger, sharper copies of the Dutch, Catalan, Portugese and Danish covers. I wonder if any Arabic versions have been published? - Jim Flanagan. From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sat Oct 14 01:34:49 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:34:49 -0000 Subject: JKR interview Dec 1999 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s8d7p+k82t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3459 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > > > 3. Someone asked if Snape would fall in love. She laughed out loud quite a > bit at this, and said "Who would want Snape in love with them?" and then > said that we'd hear a bit about Snape's love life in Book 7. I found this on a site the other day. Don't know if it is from the same interview. This is from a radio interview Rowling had with Christopher Lydon on WBUR's The Connection. Lydon: What about Snape? Rowling: OK, Snape is the--a very sadistic teacher. Loosely based on a teacher I myself had, I have to say. I think it--children are very aware--and we--we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that they are--teachers do sometimes abuse their power. And this particular teacher does abuse his power. He's not a--he's not a particularly pleasant person at all. However...everyone should keep their eye on Snape, I'll just say that, because there's more to him than meets the eye, and you will find out part of what I'm talking about if you read book Four. And no, I'm not tyring to drum up more sales, go to the library and get it out, I'd rather people read it-- Lydon: One of our--one of our Internet correspondents wondered if Snape is going to fall in love. Rowling (laughing): Yeah...who on earth would want Snape in love with them? That is a very horrible idea. Lydon: Well, you get an important kind of redemptive pattern with Snape, and then-- Rowling: It--it is, isn't it? I--I--there's so much I wish I could say to you, and I can't because it ruins--I--I promise you--whoever asked that question, can I just say to you that I'm--I'm slightly stunned that you've said that, and you'll find out why I'm so stunned if you read Book Seven. And that's all I'm going to say. Does that sound to you like he is going to fall in love OR that he might have been in love? I am not of the Lily/Snape theory. I actually hate that theory (I guess because I don't want it to be true). > > > 6. When speaking of Draco or Snape, I did not get the impression that she > was planning any personality changes for them -- they are nasty unpleasant > people, based on people she'd known during her own life, and will likely > stay that way during the whole series. I really don't see her making Snape out to be a totally pleasant guy, which would be alright with me. I like him with as he is. BUT, I hope she doesn't kill him off. I would REALLY be displeased, to say the least!!! Martha > > > ================================================== From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 14 02:16:08 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:16:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione & JKR (Long) References: <39E63A26.EDD0B45C@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39E7C1E8.2B719E33@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3460 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > So . . . is she [Hermione] the heroine or not? Hmm . . . well, the hero/heroine is the person the reader is emotionally invested in--and the person whose decisions will critically affect the action. I think Harry, Ron and Hermione all fit these definitions. Indeed, the three are a team and in fact, having three heroes allows a wide range so that many readers will be able to find SOMEONE with whom to identify--but Harry's efforts and decisions, perhaps, are the most pivotal. He's the one who's there to face Voldemort at the climax of the action in the first, second and fourth book, but it took the efforts of both Ron and Hermione to help him get there to that point. And he's the one who has to make the crucial decision in book 3 (whether to save Peter Pettigrew or not) because he was the one who suffered the most at Peter's hands (i.e., the betrayal/murder of his parents), but he got there, again, with Ron and Hermione's help, and it's Hermione, in particular who jointly helps him rescue Sirius. "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > JKR said: "She is the most brilliant of the three and they need her. Harry > needs her badly." > > How to disagree with the author? > IMO this does not come across in the books. In CoS and PoA Hermione is not > in the story for a while and Harry copes fairly well. I do not get the > impression that he does need her badly. Oh, I disagree! Well, Ron is the one with him in CoS, but Hermione is the one who researched the polyjuice potion. She's with Harry throughout all the action in PoA. She's the one who resists when Snape tries to run roughshod over them all in the Shrieking Shack, and she's got her wand out to knock Snape unconscious, too. She's the one who, with Harry, rescues Sirius; and she's right beside him, facing the dementors. [Oh, I see Penny made these same point. *Sigh* this is the problem when you're trying to answer a question that 20 people have answered before you] Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Simon added: > > > Go for the one you love. How important someone is should not enter into a > > discussion on true love. > > > Well, I agree with Simon's basic point. But, I think what Carole is > driving at is that we have an author who completely controls what > happens with these characters. Whether she's consciously aware of the > fact that Hermione is her own surrogate in the series or not, one has to > assume that her conscious or subconscious feelings may play into the mix > *if and when* she puts the characters into romantic relationships. I > think JKR's favorite character is Harry. If it were Ron, the stories > would center around Ron. We all know Lupin is one of her favorites but > I really think that Harry must be her absolute favorite. So . . . . if > you're pairing "yourself" off in a fictional universe with one of > several potential romantic partners, aren't you the least bit likely to > put yourself with the *hero,* who happens to be your favorite character? Speaking from personal experience, I think that authors can have "favorite" characters, but as for me, they're all "mine" in a way, and so there's also a resistance to choosing between them. My characters become my children, so to speak, and who wants to choose between one's own children? "Simon J. Branford" replied: > Making something out of Hermione getting further in the three book endings > that Ron is taking things a bit far. CoS and PoA have Hermione and Ron at > similar levels. In PS the situation would not have worked if we had had > Snape's puzzle before the chess. Part of the point was that Hermione was to > go back and get help. Ron sacrificed himself to get the others through the > chess game. I think they have had equal involvement in the book endings > (this can be extended to include GoF as they did nothing to help Harry get > away from Voldemort). I still think you're a little too dismissive of Hermione's contributions. She was the one who taught him the Accio spell that allowed him to grab the Triwizard cup back in the graveyard to get back to Hogwarts. And it was also in his practices with Ron and Hermione that Harry learned the Impedimenta spell, which he used to slow down the Deatheaters chasing him. > Does she do anything but solve problems? Surely she has to be able to offer > something else to Harry? There will come a time when Harry has no problems > to solve (well there maybe!), what will she do then? Hmm. Well, we'll just have to see, won't we? Steve Bates wrote: > to offer something else to Harry? There will come a time when Harry > has no problems to solve (well there maybe!), what will she do then?> > > That's a pretty utilitarian point of view regarding friendship. > Hermione's "worth" shouldn't be judged by what practical things she > has to offer Harry; isn't the fact that they are friends enough? > Instead of focusing on the things she does, think of the reasons she > does them: for instance, how she helps Harry study his spells out of > genuinely caring for him. She is as good a friend to Harry as Ron is. Applause. Also, very important: Hermione models compassion to Harry (and Ron). She notices people who are weak (Neville, the house elves) and refuses to allow others to take advantage of them. That is a very important thing for Harry to learn--what if he became all powerful, but allowed only his own arrogance to regulate his behavior? Hermione won't let him do that. BTW: this characteristic of Hermione is also from JKR's own life. She worked for Amnesty International, and this experience is a real catalyst in the her creation of the house elves story line. Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > > > Also we have Sirius in there as well. There is just a lack of female > > characters in the story - too many are bit parts. > > Interesting that as a female, I'd disagree. I don't really see it as a > male-centered series at all. I think JK Rowling made the point in one of her interviews: that she was careful to balance the gender ratio among the professors at Hogwarts. And yet there's this complaint that "there are no women"! Ever read the James Tiptree, Jr.'s story "The Women Men Don't See"? (Do you know what James Tiptree, Jr.'s gender is?) [Please note: the tone I am attempting here is gentle teasing irony, which sometimes fails to come across very well on email, so I'm spelling it out, just to avoid misunderstandings ;-) ] "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > I wrote: "Does she do anything but solve problems? Surely she has to be able > to offer something else to Harry? > > I was joking with my comment. I know that Hermione offers more but you, > Penny, made out in the message that I responded to that Hermione and Harry > are friends for the problems she could solve for him (or at least that is > how I interpreted it). See! I told you there was a trouble with getting gentle irony across in email! > I think the problem is that I do not like Hermione. She annoys me. Quite a > few of the things that people see as being faults in her (taking her studies > far too seriously, especially the PoA too many subjects incident, and taking > the political stuff too far) are problems that I know, looking back at my > teenage years, that other people had with me. I can see her doing things > that I did, things that I now realise where either stupid or irrelevant and > an inner voice in me is screaming: "Don't do it - there is no need" Really? This impatience strikes me as . . . sad. I think that the things that we complain about, in Ron and Hermione in particular, are partly a function of the fact that they are entering the gawky adolescent stage. When you're an adolescent, everything is larger than life, and so while some of their extremes make us cringe, I can simultaneously see the admirable adult in there, barely, struggling to emerge. And so I feel very tender and protective of them, rather than annoyed. (But then, I don't have to live with them. Hope I'll be able to say the same thing when my kids are adolescents.) Peg P.S. I tried to reply to everyone. I probably tried too hard. This is TOO LONG! Sending it on its way, anyway. Aargh. From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Sat Oct 14 02:33:43 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 02:33:43 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8s8c4v+bqi9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s8gm7+pa6l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3461 > I'm almost prepared to buy the theory that Nelville Longbottom is > really Peter Pettigrew's son, raised by his grandmother after > Peter's "death." The Longbottoms (Frank and ?) are in a mental institution of some sort after the Death Eaters tortured them to extract information. Neville and his grandmother visit them during the holidays. Neville's parents do not recognise him. This was all mentioned by Dumbledore after he had extracted Harry out of the Pensieve. Harry had witnessed the trial of Bagman and Crouch and somewhere along the line, the Longbottoms were mentioned and Harry asked Dumbledore after that. Gen From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Oct 14 02:49:09 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 02:49:09 -0000 Subject: Adolescence (was Hermione & JKR (Long)) In-Reply-To: <39E7C1E8.2B719E33@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8s8hj5+a3m2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3462 Great comments, Peg! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > I think that the things that we complain about, in Ron and Hermione in particular, are partly a function of the fact that they are entering the gawky adolescent stage. When you're an adolescent, everything is larger than life, and so while some of their extremes make us cringe, I can simultaneously see the admirable adult in there, barely, struggling to emerge. And so I feel very tender and protective of them, rather than annoyed. You always put things so well. *This* is why I turned down a GTA position at my university. How could I leave my often awkward, always dynamic kids for cynical Gen-Xers and jaded "non-traditional" types? The blessed contradiction inherent in adolescence is also why I love these books. We may put our grown-up spin of sophistication over them, but ultimately the Harry, Ron, and Hermione we've fallen in love with are adolescent kids. The most critical time of a child's intellectual development is between the ages of nine and fourteen. During those years, my personality shifted radically. We will see a similar change in the characters. Harry is going to have more and more difficulty trusting people in the future. Ron is going to have to wrestle with his own demons in order to remain by Harry's side. Hermione is going to have to learn how to use her compassion. As it says in the old prayer, she needs to gain the "serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference." This weekend's as good a time as any to re-read the series leisurely... it's time, I think. I'm teaching *Number the Stars* right now, so it'll be fun to note all the parallels that Brooks has brought up. --Ebony ----------------------- "Child of the pure, unclouded brow and dreaming eyes of wonder! Though time be fleet, and I from thee are half a life asunder, Thy wond'ring eyes shall surely hail The love-gift of a fairy tale." --Lewis Carroll (BTW, let me try the sig survey for a change...) Last book read: Alvin Journeyman, by Orson Scott Card Last movie seen: Bring It On (it's been a while) Current car jam: Voodoo, D'Angelo Radio dial is locked on: The Russ Parr Morning Show With Olivia Fox Current book: Dancing In The Street: Motown and the Cultural Politics of Detroit, Suzanne E. Smith From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 03:06:09 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 03:06:09 -0000 Subject: Malfoy cast! Message-ID: <8s8ij1+fotp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3463 Tom Felton (who played Anna's son in "The King & I" has been cast. I just found it at; www.empireonline.co.uk BTW, this site's also describing Hale Joel Osment's comments about the movie as "sour grapes". Oh well, that's the press for you! Rita Skeeter would be kicking herself for not coming up with that spin first! From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 03:23:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 03:23:38 -0000 Subject: Reading; somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <39E66892.2D73DA7F@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8s8jjq+e1lp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3464 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > Does anyone have any recommendations for a > > > desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like LeGuin, > > Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern Dragons > > so many times I feel like they live next door.) > > > > -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read > > Try Lois McMaster Bujold. > > P. Charles DeLint's Moonheart? From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 03:37:59 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 03:37:59 -0000 Subject: Reading; somewhat OT In-Reply-To: <8s8jjq+e1lp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s8ken+n747@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3465 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > Joywitch wrote: > > > > Does anyone have any recommendations for a > > > > > desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like > LeGuin, > > > Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern > Dragons > > > so many times I feel like they live next door.) > > > > > > -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read > > > > Try Lois McMaster Bujold. > > > > P. > > Charles DeLint's Moonheart? Anything by Michael A. Stackpole. Most of his writing is fantasy, except for several "Star Wars" novels (the best is "I, Jedi"), and one (so far) mystery, which is online at www.stormwolf.com From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 04:36:18 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:36:18 EDT Subject: female characters - very long and very opinionated Message-ID: <2f.bc26797.27193cc2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3466 I fear that I will be shot for this post, but here goes anyway. Someone wrote that they didn't understand critics suggestion that there wasn't a strong female character, after all, there is Hermione. And, by the way, unlike some others, I really like Hermione. She's absolutely smart. She has ethics. She's cool. Now, remember, I love JKR. I adore these books. I talk about them constantly. But I must suggest that JKR is male-identified. That is, she sees Hermione (and probably herself) as the exception. Hermione is not like the other girls. She doesn't giggle, run in packs, or do a lot of the other traditionally girl behavior that JKR doesn't particularly like. She's brilliant, hard working, and takes things seriously. She is NOT just the girl who helps the boy slay the dragon (as someone suggests). Who helped save Sirius Black? She's adventurous; she's inventive. But she is the EXCEPTION. Just as many strong, intelligent women, she survives/flourishes by hanging out with men and bonding with men. She demonstrates that she can be feminine and attract men by attracting a GoF champion, and looking beautiful at the Yule Ball. She can do it all if she wants, but she has nothing in common with the vast majority of women/girls. There are NO strong female/female bonds in the book. No women supporting women to fight injustice. Just mostly male bonding. (not as bad as it would have been 50 years ago) The vast majority of the cool, powerful, efficacious characters are men/boys. James Potter, Sirius Black, Lupin, Dumbledore, Voldemort, Snape, Malfoy, Barty Crouch, Senior, Barty Crouch, Junior, Harry, Ron, Fred, George, Bill, Percy, Hagrid, Wormtail. Quirrell. Arthur Weasley. The departments in the M of M are all headed by men. Even all of the Death Eaters (except Madame Lestrange) are men. Even the majority of the ghosts are men! Almost all of the women are defined as mothers/partners, yet few of the men are defined that way. Molly Weasley (I love her) is defined that way. (Let me be crystal clear. Mothering is essential; women who work in the home are incredible. But there are no men who are defined merely as fathers/partners). And in fact, Molly is one of the strongest female influences in the books. Yet someone on the list defined her as angry and menopausal, and obviously not the erotic partner of Arthur Weasley. I disagree. So Lily Potter is also defined as the mother who sacrificed all for her son. Yet she is still an enigma. We know a bunch about James and his friends, but almost nothing about Lily. Cho is described as a strong girl, Quidditch player, but her major role is as Cedric's date and Harry's crush. The Ravenclaw prefect (Penelope?) is there as Percy's amour. The three slimy Slytherins are boys - the only female Slytherins are an enigma - Millicent unpleasant, and the girl who accompanies Malfoy to the ball. Is it Bertha Jorgenson who is the space cadet who is wandering around Albania and becomes the pawn of Voldemort? Another stereotypical portrayal?. Even Mrs. Dursley doesn't work outside the home. Vernon makes the decisions and rules the roost. The Divination Professor is an ass. The healer is sweet but functions in the old female stereotype of nurse. Wasn't Neville's mother only tortured to see if she knew anything about what Neville's father was doing - he was the actor; she was the supporter? Moaning Myrtle might have the most female characterization, but again, it harks back to an unpleasant, unpopular girl. Then we have the Sirens ---- whoops the Veela - who enslave men with their erotic attraction only to turn into monsters (the old toothed vagina stuff)..sexy women as dangerous ones who will rob Samson of his?..okay maybe I'm going off here?. Then, we have the four houses. We know the most about Gryffindor, then Slytherin, Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. Is it any coincidence that Godric and Salazar were men but Helga and what's her name are women? Now for the women with the most potential. I'm afraid Minerva McGonagall tends to function as an aide or administrative assistant to Albus Dumbledore. I myself was furious at her for not standing up to Cornelius Fudge and letting the Dementor give the kiss to BC, Jr. Otherwise, I really like her. I love the fact that she's an animaga (okay, my Latin is rusty but she wouldn't be an animagus would she?) and that Dumbledore has never seen a cat so severe?I love that she wants to win the Quidditch match and lets Harry have a broomstick first year. I love her Scottish accent, and how she changes her desk into a pig. But I'm afraid that she's not that strong a character, certainly not if you contrast her with Sirius or Lupin or Crouch. Ginny Weasley has potential as does Madame Maxine. I'd love to see this trend change. susan (bracing herself for the fury of the list unleashed) From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 04:41:20 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:41:20 -0000 Subject: Harry Withdrawl In-Reply-To: <8s6s1r+si00@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s8o5g+dhsl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3467 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > > So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books--over again! Has > > anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not > > completley crazy. > > > Reading HP in a foreign language is good practice if you have a rusty > 2nd language from high school or college. You can order the books in > French, Spanish and German from Amazon. They're available in dozens > of other languages, although Amazon doesn't stock them. I'm halfway > through book 3 in French and I just sent in my order for the 4th, > which comes out on November 29. > > -Jim Flanagan Jim, that's a great idea! I was stunned when I was in Hanoi to find out that I could read French newspapers (4 years of school French..of course most newspapers are geared for six grade readers)...I'd love to try the first book. Thanks! Susan From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 14 04:55:01 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:55:01 -0500 Subject: 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith (Long) Message-ID: <39E7E725.143F0FCB@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3468 With this post, I will be starting a new series to follow up on my previous series, which analyzed each of the 7 Deadly Sins, in relation to Harry's moral development/education. Opening caveat: I love playing with theme, but I do not claim that the themes I am finding here are what JK Rowling "meant." We can argue reader response theory vs. authorial intention another time. (That's not to say that I wouldn't be delighted, however, if she were lurking here and emailed me out of the blue to say, "You've got it spot on, girl!" Are you out there listening, Jo?) All I am attempting to do here with this series is to think aloud about what I have discovered, thematically, in these books. In other words, I cheerfully admit that this may be entirely a sugar-spun fantasy on my part. But it's real to me. Anyway, don't say you weren't warned. Through my posts on the 7 Deadly Sins, I've been using as a casual guide the website www.deadlysins.com (mostly I'd just check it to find out, let's see, what's the sin I'm supposed to profile next?) It was this website which first introduced me to the concept of the 7 Heavenly Virtues. The first is Faith, and the website refers to a cluster of concepts connected to it: belief, trust, fidelity, loyalty, conviction. See www.deadlysins.com/virtue.htm to read more about the 7 Heavenly Virtues if you want more background. So . . . what does Harry learn about faith in these books? Let's start where we always start: by looking at the Dursleys. (If there's one thing that working on this series of posts has done, it has raised my respect for Rowling's decision to use the Dursleys as a starting point for each book, because of the flexibility that this strategic decision accomplishes thematically.) Just as the Dursley's provide a warning example to Harry about what living in the thrall to each deadly sin is like, they provide an example to him of what life is like if lived without each of the 7 Heavenly virtues. The fact is, Harry learned nothing about faith from the Dursleys--except, perhaps, in a negative fashion, because he was forced to live without it. And it was a pretty miserable existence. Harry has no trust in the Dursleys. He does not confide in them; in fact, all efforts on his attempts to ask questions, to create connections upon which to build trust, are firmly squelched. (For example, the Dursleys refuse to answer his questions about his scar; in fact, they lie about it.) Harry has several hints about his true nature (the incidents where he unexpectedly escapes from Dudley, the haircut that grows back too quickly, the strange people who seem to be keeping an eye on him), but the Dursleys violently reject any hint of whatever-it-is that Harry is sensing (and that something, of course, is magic, and Harry's true history and inner nature). Then, the letters from Hogwarts appear, and the Dursleys become agitated, especially Vernon, as the mystery deepens. Vernon's instinct is to flee from the truth, forcing Harry to accompany him, but Hagrid catches up with them, with an amazing story to tell. Who should Harry believe? Cold hard facts, the bread and butter of the Dursley's world? Or something more rich and strange? Vernon argues against Harry's specialness, even as he argues against magic--against faith--but his arguments fail against Hagrid's magical signs (the spell on Dudley, the magical progress of the boat across the lake, etc.) Harry allows himself to believe the magical story more and more as he accompanies Hagrid to London to visit Gringotts and buy his supplies. At this point in the story, however, he is simply a passive follower, merely absorbing information. The process of growing in faith is often metaphorically described as the undertaking of a journey. The turning point for Harry in terms of faith takes place at the beginning of his journey to Hogwarts. The Dursleys take Harry to King's Cross Station, moving him through the mundane, muggle world that they know. But because they are both faithless and lack faith, they abandon him. They literally think--and tell him--that he is going nowhere. Now is the point that faith is needed. Harry must be proactive, not just reactive, in order to begin his journey. In order to find out what to do, he turns to a newly introduced character, Mrs. Weasley, to solve his problem, and the encounter is thematically extremely important: "Excuse me," Harry said to the plump woman. "Hello, dear," she said. "First time at Hogwarts? Ron's new, too." She pointed to the last and youngest of her sons. He was tall, thin, and gangling, with freckles, big hands and feet, and a long nose.: "Yes," said Harry. "The thing is -- the think is, I don't know how to --" "How to get onto the platform?" she said kindly, and Harry nodded. "Not to worry," she said, "All you have to do is walk straight at the barrier between platforms nine and ten. Don't stop and don't be scared you'll crash into it, that's very important. Best do it at a bit of a run if you're nervous. Go on, go now before Ron." I think it is significant that Harry perceives Mrs. Weasley first as a mother in this scene. He lost his own mother at a very young age, a very important blow to his moral development because an infant learns the concept of "trust," the first cornerstone of faith, in the course of interacting with his or her own mother. Mrs. Weasley will, over the course of the series, become Harry's surrogate mother, and so it is significant that she is the one to give him the instruction that literally starts him on his faith journey. The Dursleys, of course, would think this advice mad, but then, the Dursleys have no faith. Harry has seen magical signs, first with Hagrid and now watching the Weasleys disappear, one by one, but now he is required to act, to face that wall, even though it makes no rational sense. He trusts, follows Mrs. Weasley's advice--and steps through the wall into the realm of things unseen, to find the Hogwarts Express, waiting to take him into his new life. Slowly, over the course of the series, Harry builds upon this new understanding, that he can trust other people. He is more wary of adults, which is understandable, given his history with his aunt and uncle. Even when Dumbledore invites him to tell what's on his mind, Harry prefers to keep things to himself. Yet, although he keeps his distance at first, Harry is coming to trust Dumbledore more and more. He starts to understand loyalty, both in the interaction between the four houses, but even more significantly in his growing friendship with Ron and Hermione. Harry probably experienced for the first time the sensation of standing up for somebody other than himself when he stuck up for Ron to Draco during the train ride in the first book. And, with trust and loyalty, he begins to define his inner convictions. He rejects Draco's overture of friendship, grounded as it is in an implicit requirement to reject his budding friendship with Ron. When his friends warn him against taking action to prevent the theft of the Philosopher's stone, he says, "If I get caught before I can get to the Stone, well, I'll have to go back to the Dursleys and wait for Voldemort to find me there, it's only dying a little bit later that I would have, because I'm never going over to the Dark Side! I'm going through that trap door tonight and nothing you two say is going to stop me. Voldemort killed my parents, remember?" The seminal story arc dealing with faith in the series is the story of the great betrayal of the James and Lily Potter by Peter Pettigrew, an act which reverberates still, years later. (Note that the protective spell which the Potters were using was called the Fidelius spell.) As long as Sirius and Peter were faithful, the Potters would be safe. This is the painful thing about faith: sometimes faith is not rewarded as we expect it to be. Peter betrayed James and Lily, and the repercussions--for Harry, for Sirius, for the Muggles who died, for Lupin, who lost three of his best friends all in one horror-filled night--were terrible. In the scene in the Shrieking Shack in PoA, Harry (and Ron and Hermione) see Lupin and Sirius struggle with a profound question, specifically, how do you pick yourself up and go on, rebuilding your faith when trust has been cruelly betrayed? Or even when you yourself have violated a trust? Both Sirius and Lupin suffered greatly because of Peter's break of faith. They each mourn James and Lily, whom they had loved. As a result of Peter's actions, Sirius lost his freedom, and Lupin lost his friendship with Sirius. They each probably suffered knowing that they were not in a position to help Harry now that his parents were gone, Sirius because he was wrongfully imprisoned, and Lupin because he was a werewolf. Sirius struggled with guilt, thinking he should have known better than to trust Peter-- if only he had stuck to the original plan! Lupin wrestles with the memory that he had betrayed Dumbledore's trust by running loose at Hogwarts when he had transformed while a student at Hogwarts, a memory which prevents him from telling the truth about how Sirius is getting into Hogwarts again. Once Lupin and Sirius finally face each other--and Peter--in the Shack, they each must decide whether to trust again, to have faith again. Lupin does, stepping forward to embrace Sirius like a brother, reclaiming their old relationship of trust. And then, together with Harry, he convinces Sirius to believe, to trust, that he, too, can have a true, faith-based life again--not a orgy of rage, despair and revenge, ending with his murdering Peter, but a real one, rooted in his rightful place in the magical world, where he can relinquish Peter to society's justice, and concentrate instead on reclaiming his role as godfather, providing a home for his spiritual son, Harry. What Sirius and Lupin are doing in this scene is acting out the great drama which has happened again and again throughout the history of Voldemort rise. "You don't know who [Voldemort's] supporters are [Sirius tells Harry, Ron and Hermione, trying to help them understand], you don't know who's working for him and who isn't; you know he can control people so that they do terrible things without being able to stop themselves. You're scared for yourself, and your family, and your friends. Every week, news comes of more deaths, more disappearances, more torturing . . . the Ministry of Magic's in disarray, they don't know what to do, they're trying to keep everything hidden from the Muggles, but meanwhile, Muggles are dying, too. Terror everywhere . . . panic . . . confusion . . . that's how it used to be." Indeed--how can faith survive in times like these? And conversely, how can one survive without it? All this foreshadows the events of the fourth book. In the GoF, like his parents, Harry is betrayed to the enemy by someone he has trusted. Something similar happened with Quirrell in the first book, but the wound goes deeper this time--Harry has blood forcibly removed and knows that it has been used to strengthen his worst enemy; he experiences the Crucio curse; and he suffers the horror and the guilt of watching Cedric's murder. How will he recover enough to rebuild his life? How will he ever learn to trust again? It will take time. He tells his story, emptying himself of the horror that he has experienced. He gravely accepts the homage that he knows is his, without conceit, just knowing that what he has experienced must be acknowledged. He allows himself to be embraced by Mrs. Weasley, and then sleeps. He spends his time with Ron and Hermione, quietly playing chess, grounding himself in those rock-bottom trust relationships. When the time is right, he gives his gold to Fred and George, asking that it be spent on the joke shop. Crazy? Maybe. But, well, that's what faith IS, isn't it? Something beyond common sense, something which can't be explained, only experienced-- something the Dursleys will never fathom at all. You simply have to embrace it. Walk toward it. Don't stop and don't be scared, that's very important. Best do it at a bit of a run if you're nervous. Go on. Go now. Comments, as always, are appreciated. Peg From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 04:57:43 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 04:57:43 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version)/Vampires In-Reply-To: <39E79052.5089063B@texas.net> Message-ID: <8s8p47+pvnc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3469 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Denise Rogers wrote: > > > pg. 138--Why did Snape ask Harry "those" particular questions? What significance did that have? > > I thought that it was because they were easy? Pointing up his ignorance of the wizard world? Because surely Snape knows that Harry won't know, and uses it to ridicule him. > > --Amanda Exactly, Amanda. I agree. Now on to vampires. Ron at some point after Lupin is exposed as a werewolf hopes that the next DADA professor will be a vampire, so they obviously exist in Harry Potterland. But we know little about them? I'd like more on unicorns myself. AND, who has read Bram Stoker's Dracula..now THERE is a powerful book! Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 05:00:31 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 05:00:31 -0000 Subject: prequels - my fantasies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s8p9f+at7u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3470 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Snuffles Macgoo" wrote: > > all excellant but and what about a story about how/why snape came back to > the bright? > > that JKR - she's going to busy for a VERY long time! > Goodness, the Snape story could take up a whole entire book! Any other prequels we want? From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 05:13:17 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 05:13:17 -0000 Subject: books / movies In-Reply-To: <002f01c0355e$1a6071a0$5da2173f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <8s8q1d+g2m4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3471 plus Patrick Stewart is also in it. Who did Patrick Stewart plaY/ > > The book was absolutely wonderful Dune is an outstanding book and I think everybody should read it. The sequels got worse and worse, and I remember the movie as being not so good (Sting was in it?) Susan From brooksar at indy.net Sat Oct 14 05:30:48 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:30:48 -0500 Subject: Snape and Tiptree References: <971499635.11367@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39E7EF89.9A402798@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3472 Funny Peg should mention Tiptree's "The Women Men Don't See". Yes, I remember that story VERY well. It was one of the first Tiptree's I ever read. "Two of our opossums are missing." What an incredible ending. I wish I had gotten to meet Alice, but she stayed away from cons. People are wondering how you can be 'half vampire' - what happens if a woman exchanges* blood with a vampire >while pregnant< but does not go so far as to die? Then later gives birth? The child may be modified by the vampire essence in the blood.... cf. the Claude Rains movie _Condemned to Live_. In that way they could be both human and vampiric. -Brooks *Remember that according to some interpretations of _Dracula_, and specifically defined in Anne Rice and Fred Saberhagen, it is not that the victim of a vampire becomes him/her-self a vampire - but rather a person who has ingested vampire's blood while at the same time dying from loss of his.her own. In other words, the vampire is not so much getting nourishment, as reproducing. From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 14 06:19:13 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 06:19:13 -0000 Subject: female characters - very long and very opinionated/ Seven Virtues/ Vampires In-Reply-To: <2f.bc26797.27193cc2@aol.com> Message-ID: <8s8tt1+52ua@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3473 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Schlobin at a... wrote: No fury here. You really summed up my own mixed feelings on the issue. The people who complain about the female characters are half right. There is Hermione, but there isn't really much else, is there? I am particularly disappointed that McGonnagall hasn't been better developed, expecially after her extremely interesting appearance in the very first chapter of the very first book. Still, I think JKR's reaction to those critics who keep asking for better female characters is appropriate (didn't she compare their requests to "ordering a plate of fries"?). She is the author, and she is following her own vision. I can give her the benefit of the doubt, and assume the apparent relative lack of a strong feminine presence is due to the fact that the books are largely from Harry's point of view, and he is not expected to notice a lot of things. This explains why Hermione is mostly seen as filling a somewhat male role: because that's how Harry sees her. The fact that she is a girl probably actually doesn't occur to him, on some level. And he simply doesn't notice many of the other female characters, or, if he thinks about it at all; he simply classifies them in a traditional female role (Mrs. Weasley as the mother, Madame Pomfrey as the healer). But as Harry is maturing, his point of view is expandng, so I think there is hope that we will see a more 3D view of many of these female characters, perhaps even quite suddenly in the next book (Harry's experiences in GoF will certainly cause him to mature quickly in any number of ways.) Peg: I wouldn't have thought it possible, but it looks like this series is going to be even better than your last. Amazing! About Brooks's comment on vampires: There are numerous variations on the vampire myth, and though I am not that knowledgable about them, I have heard two contrasting versions, one in which anyone who is killed by a vampire becomes a vampire, and one in which the vampire has to let the victim drink from him/her. In any case, their one method of reproduction is to kill humans and make them vampires, so it would be hard to see how Snape could be half vampire. If the fetus theory is true, the absorption of some of the vampire blood woud probably be enough to make him a TOTAL vampire. It really is an all or nothing deal. Anyway, I think the Snape as vampire theory is utter balderdash, based on totally circumstantial evidence, but it is so popular, I am forced to at least consider it. I'll admit it's interestng to talk about, even if I don't believe it for one second. P.S. Dracula could appear in the daytime, so it is not totally impossible that Snape can, too. On the other hand, the vampires in Buffy: the Vampire Slayer (a guilty pleasure that ranks above Harry Potter for me) can stay up at all hours of the day as long as they are not in direct sunlight. Of course Snape HAS been outside in the day, many times, but still. . .tbere are lots of possible explanations. From klaatu at primenet.com Sat Oct 14 06:43:09 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:43:09 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters - very long and very opinionated In-Reply-To: <2f.bc26797.27193cc2@aol.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3474 Susan, I agree strongly with all your observations. It would be interesting to go through the book and count lines of dialog, totaling male and female contributions. Sometimes when I'm reading the books, I think of all the movies I have watched -- the majority of them have predominantly male cast members. (Think... War movies, Westerns, Heist movies, Science fiction movies, etc.) If the majority of the starring roles are played by women, it's always referred to as a "women's picture" and the women are usually involved in some kind of plot to wreak revenge on men. However, I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment of Harry Potter. Yes, it makes me uneasy sometimes as I see the long string of subordinate female characters. But I rather think that JKR is reproducing the world as it is, and not how it may be idealized by future visions of genuine equality. The only real sign of female equality seems to be the fact that Quidditch teams are not gender-biased. -----Original Message----- From: Schlobin at aol.com [mailto:Schlobin at aol.com] ...I'd love to see this trend change. susan (bracing herself for the fury of the list unleashed) From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sat Oct 14 09:35:41 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:35:41 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: DUNE and Interim reading References: <8s7hsa+sc90@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3475 "Reaper Man" is one of my favorites, as is anything with the Ankh-Morpork Watch. Avoid "The Last Continent" unless you're Australian. Why's that ht? have we got inheriantly *worse* taste than the rest of the world? storm (who loves Jane best) (Austen, did you really have to ask?) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sat Oct 14 09:50:46 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:50:46 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Defender of Hermione References: <8s7u7e+tt8c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3476 ROTFL! great work Karin, and of course, great work Penny! storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Karin To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 7:18 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Defender of Hermione > > Penny (who should perhaps be given the title of Defender of Hermione or > some such) > I can just see it: Hermione, surrounded by Dementors, pulls out her wand (thinking of Harry of course) and shouts, "EXPECTO PATRONUM!" And out of her wand charges a silvery Penny, who promptly chases the Dementors away. :) eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Sat Oct 14 09:39:06 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:39:06 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny [Was: Re: Hermione and JKR] References: <8s7n2b+bq3o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005601c035c2$98fe3ce0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3477 > Hmph! Well, she's not shy in *my* fic, and she grows up to work with > dragons (like Charlie.) Oh dear, gave that away. Never mind. But I > agree with your essential point; I'm also bored with stories where > she's a shy blushing thing. All the Weasleys are strong-willed; it > makes sense that she would be, too. (And I think she was a magazine > editor in Lori's story...) Oops. Sorry, I read that part of PoU a looong time ago, and haven't read any of Draco Sinister...but I was under the distinct impression that the magazine had something to do with fashion. Am I right? ~Firebolt From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sat Oct 14 10:47:52 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:47:52 +1000 Subject: JKR and women (long, very long) References: <39E768E9.50867708@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3478 Hi everyone "Simon J. Branford" wrote> McGonagall maybe a strong character but she, IMO, has too little> involvement in the stories. Dumbledore is ahead of her in the pecking> order and Snape is roughly level with her. Penny said "McGonagall is Deputy Head Mistress. She's not exactly level with Snape IMO. She is in terms of "on air" time, I think, She's also head of Gryffindor & teaches Transfiguration, the post Dumbledore held before becoming Head Master. She's one of 7 registered animagi in the last century. She's got just as much on-screen time as Dumbledore in my book. I think we also see as much of McGonagall as we do of Snape for the most part." simon siad: > Also we have Sirius in there as well. There is just a lack of female> characters in the story - too many are bit parts. Penny said Interesting that as a female, I'd disagree. I don't really see it as a male-centered series at all. Storm says ... Oh I do (see it as a male centred series)! btw I'm not saying this is bad (though a little sad for me) but it is a story written from the POV of an adolesent boy. Thought I've never been that particular creature I can imagine the lives of ppl who are not direct role models for them just don't feature on thier emotional horiszen. but back to the male centred-ness, as a female reader if you are not (identifed with) Hermonie then who can you be? Whereas if one is to id as one of the male charators there are heaps of interesting ppl to pick on, charators who have history and edges (cf Snape, Black, Wormtail, Lupin, Hagrid etc) Whereas the female charators (of whom MacGonagall is the chief adult) seem to me to be more one dimentional. for example I have no idea what, if anything motavates MacGonagall, and I've never thought about it. I don't know what motivates Snape either but I think about it - and we talk about it quite a lot here I think that Snape does seem 'equal' (though in the school heirarchy he is not) because Snape's role brings him into conflict with Harry we have more of a foucs on him. So I see why, though MacGonagall's apparent superioity she seems "equal" to Snape. Simon "I think the problem is that I do not like Hermione." yes well that is a bit of a problem Simon "She annoys me. Quite a few of the things that people see as being faults in her (taking her studies far too seriously, especially the PoA too many subjects incident, and taking the political stuff too far) are problems that I know, looking back at my teenage years, that other people had with me. I can see her doing things that I did, things that I now realise where either stupid or irrelevant and an inner voice in me is screaming: "Don't do it - there is no need" hmm, Simon I'm going to be *very* american here - so hold on - Its not bad to be opinated or policical! we need ppl like that to stir the pot and make sure we don't sink into a self interested torpor. (soothing music) accept your adolesant self! learn to love H as an expression of your adolesance (jangeling bells, wafting scents) right I'm approriately embarrsess by that little interlude so I'll go back to the post. Peg Kerr "I think JK Rowling made the point in one of her interviews: that she was careful to balance the gender ratio among the professors at Hogwarts. And yet there's this complaint that "there are no women"! " see just having the names or bodies there isn't enough for me. I want to know about them to be able to idetify them by more than just thier profession (teacher, mother etc) we don't know the history about any but the male charactors. (even Lily who should be so important we have to wait till book 7 to find out - this does not give JRK much time to devlop her charactor!) ok, I suspect this doesn't hang together but I hope you 'get' what I'm saying storm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From drielm at zonnet.nl Sat Oct 14 09:48:10 2000 From: drielm at zonnet.nl (drielm) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:48:10 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT Message-ID: <00c301c035c3$ea4291e0$1c883b3e@marigina> No: HPFGUIDX 3479 Hi everybody, Being an adult sf/fantasy adept myself, I would certainly recommend C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy. The titles are: Book 1 -- Black sun rising Book 2 -- When true night falls Book 3 -- Crown of shadows Very dark, very gothic and romantic. Read them, please! Greetings, Maria -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Susan McGee Aan: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Datum: zaterdag 14 oktober 2000 5:23 Onderwerp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: >> Joywitch wrote: >> >> Does anyone have any recommendations for a >> >> > desperate adult sci-fi fan? (Other than the standards like >LeGuin, >> > Butler, McCaffrey...Ive read about the Oankali and the Pern >Dragons >> > so many times I feel like they live next door.) >> > >> > -- Joywitch, who has run out of things to read >> >> Try Lois McMaster Bujold. >> >> P. > >Charles DeLint's Moonheart? > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sat Oct 14 11:03:30 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:03:30 +1000 Subject: JKR and Women - addendum plus a request Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3480 I forgot to say that's one of the (many) reason's I liked POU - for the female lead baddy, all most all of Volde's cohorts are male (appart from Ms LeStrange (sp?) Also - Keepers of the List - do you think we could have a notice on this list when new chapers have been posted in ASA/DS/NES? please?. I like to read them and I forget to check the list to see where things are up to. I'd love to get the posts off the POU list which would of course tell me, but I'm already staggering under the (welcome) weight of this list. Storm From particle at urbanet.ch Sat Oct 14 10:29:35 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:29:35 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie uniforms - A Question and a suggestion References: <20001013194301.5963.qmail@web4801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000801c035c9$a698bc20$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3481 > I'd always pictured the robes themselves as black for everyone, and the > same style. With that assumption, you could identify members of other > houses as you get to know individuals. Or you may just see them around > (what colors they carry at Quidditch games, where they sit in the dining > hall, etc), and get to know their house. Since Penelope was a few years > ahead of Harry and Ron, and had no activities in common with either of them > them, they probably just didn't notice her enough to note what house she > was in (except that it wasn't Gryffindor). > > Using the same assumption, "Crabbe" and "Goyle" couldn't be expected to > know Penelope's house any more than Ron and Harry. But they probably would > know that she wasn't a Slytherin, which is probably why she was suspicious. > Or maybe it was because they were male and asking for directions (just > kidding). Hmn, that wasn't quite what I meant. My question was: if all the Houses have different colors of trim on their sweaters in the movie, how would Ron and Harry mistake Penelope for a Slytherin if she was wearing blue trim instead of green? This may sound nitpicky, but hey, if we're going to pick apart the books, let's pick apart the movie... ~Firebolt From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Oct 14 10:50:46 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:50:46 +0100 Subject: Uniforms Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3482 Firebolt asked: "My question was: if all the Houses have different colors of trim on their sweaters in the movie, how would Ron and Harry mistake Penelope for a Slytherin if she was wearing blue trim instead of green? This may sound nitpicky, but hey, if we're going to pick apart the books, let's pick apart the movie..." When Ron and Harry meet Penelope it is during a school holiday. I would assume that during the holidays, especially a it is Christmas day, that the students would not have to wear all of the school uniform. Thus, it is possible for Penelope not to be wearing any item of clothing that distinguishes her house. I am all for picking the films apart. It gives us something to do in our spare time - which I spent discussing the books! Simon (Long reply on female characters will arrive later - but I decided that this would be better dealt with separately) From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 14 10:55:04 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:55:04 -0000 Subject: prequels - my fantasies In-Reply-To: <8s68f6+sb7r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s9e28+ieet@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3483 - In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > also, the story of Molly and Arthur Weasley's love affair.... I suspect it isn't a very dramatic story: they were a couple while at school: remember, Mrs. Weasely reminisced of how the Fat Lady scolded her when she came home at 4AM from a date with Arthur. (I hope someone is old enough to remember a song called "Wake Up, Little Susie", because I am about to make a joke about it:) FOUR AYEM! If Molly and Arthur didn't fall asleep at the drive-in movie, they were doing what Susie and her boyfriend's friends thought they were doing when they did fall asleep! On that occasion, Arthur was caught by Filch's predecessor, named Apollyon Pringle. I just Web searched and learned that the name Apollyon is from the Book of Revelation and is supposed to be a name of the Devil and mean 'Destroyer'. I feel so ignorant for not having already known that. But I keep thinking there is also a giant named Apollyon in Rebelais or some place? From particle at urbanet.ch Sat Oct 14 11:07:06 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:07:06 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry Withdrawl References: <8s8o5g+dhsl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006701c035ce$e41cc640$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3484 The French colonized a part of Vietnam (the south part) for about a century starting in the 1850s, if I have my history correct. A lot of vietnamese kids used to learn French before they learned English, and I've met plenty who grew up in Vietnam but can easily pass themselves off as having been born in France. Ah, the joys of being bilingual...hopefully I'll be there myself in a few years. ~Firebolt, who did swear to learn Vietnamese once upon a time... From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 14 11:11:39 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:11:39 -0000 Subject: Hermione & JKR In-Reply-To: <39E737C9.412F6AE2@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8s9f1b+jaet@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3485 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny Linsenmayer wrote: > I think what Carole is driving at is that we have an author who > completely controls what happens with these characters. Whether > she's consciously aware of the fact that Hermione is her own > surrogate in the series or not, one has to assume that her > conscious or subconscious feelings may play into the mix *if and > when* she puts the characters into romantic relationships. I > think JKR's favorite character is Harry. If it were Ron, the > stories would center around Ron. (snip) So . . . . if you're > pairing "yourself" off in a fictional universe with one of > several potential romantic partners, aren't you the least bit > likely to put yourself with the *hero,* who happens to be your > favorite character? Hermione is Mary-Sue? Which leads to: has anyone else here read SILVER METAL LOVER by Tanith Lee? My friend loves it because to her it is tragic and poetic. I hate it because to me it is absolutely teen-age girl wish fulfillment fantasy: 1) when the chubby, bad complexion, brunette stops taking her prescription drugs, she automatically becomes a tall, thin, platinum-blonde beauty who is a very excellent singer despite never having had any vocal training, 2) the wonderful and totally talented hero (in the sense of 'romantic lead') devotedly loves her because her 'soul' is so spiritual and sensitive (and she doesn't have anything except her 'soul' to be loved for), 3) her wonderful beloved totally takes care of her, financially, cooking, cleaning ... altho' it does make sense that he repairs their loathsome poverty apartment into a wonderland while she sleeps, as he doesn't ever need sleep, 4) her horrible mother, whom she thinks is so cruel to her, is proved to actually *be* remarkably cruel to her and other people, and she (daughter) gets to publically expose her (mother) as evil. And when I was reading it, I just got so angry at each of those scenes, as I said to the book: "I know where THAT fantasy comes from, but it doesn't really happen." From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 14 12:34:07 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:34:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters - very long and very opinionated Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001014123407.00a042ec@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3486 At 00:36 10/14/2000 EDT, Susan wrote about the male bias in HP: I agree that there is a focus on the males in the HP books. However, I don't agree that Hermione is the exception among the female characters, although she is the most evident exception. There is strength in the other female characters, it is just more subtle or implied. In my view there are three main reasons for the bias: a) As Steve Bates said, the books are written with Harry as the focal point. I think this explains why male bonding features and female bonding is absent. Frankly, it would be great to see more of the interaction between Lavender and Parvati (which undoubtedly goes beyond giggling in classrooms) or eavesdrop on a late night chat between Hermione and Ginny or hear Angelina Johnson enthusing to her mates about a Quidditch match. Sadly, we don't get much of that, because Harry doesn't get much of that. b) JKR has chosen at least one setting (Hogwarts) which harks back to a traditional, gender-rigid environment - the boarding school. I've always felt that these books had a nostalgic feel about them that suggested the 1940s/1950s, rather than the later C20. That vision blends with images of an even deeper tradition, harking back to the times when goblets, robes and flaming torches were de rigeur. In my opinion, this stripping of modernity is one of the keys to JKR having created such an alluring alternative universe. It is also the very thing that appears to have dictated some of the female roles (Molly Weasley - 1950s Matriarch; McGonagall - 1940s schoolmarm, Rosmerta - medieval serving wench, Trelawney - 1950s seaside charlatan). In this context, exceptions to the rule make quite a statement (just as they would have in the 1950s). c) Perhaps JKR wanted to avoid making too big a 'gender reversal' statement in this setting and preferred to imply equality and female strength incidentally. The unisex nature of Quidditch, mentioned by Sister ML, is one of these, but there are others (to my mind, the fact that Molly Weasley is clearly much stronger than Arthur). You make some undeniable points, Susan. Women are pushed into the background and held to sterotype. Apart from Trelawney, only McGonagall appears to have any major emphasis among the teachers. True, Helga Hufflepuff and Rowena Ravenclaw founded the two 'also ran' Houses. Lestrange does seem to be the only female deatheater. Yes, the "vast majority of the cool, powerful, efficacious characters are men/boys" and despite what I've said above, that needn't have been so. I think it's important to be able to imagine the things we *don't* see. We've noted before that some of the characters are only sketched out and I think this allows the reader to fill in the missing parts of the jigsaw to their own design. Sadly, we don't know too much about Cho, Angelina, Parvati, Fleur, Ginny et al, but I'm willing to bet that if we did read some scenes from *their* perspective, we'd see that they weren't just arm decorations for the Yule Ball. In that case, despite the tradition of the boys asking the girls to the Ball, the boys appeared naive and clumsy and the girls came across as more mature and in control... that was my reading between the lines, anyhow. I don't know that JKR is male-identifed as such, because she has said that she identifies with Hermione. We could ask why she chose a male lead? Perhaps it was to avoid having the book cast as reading for girls, but maybe it was simply because that was the story she wanted to write and how she wanted to write it. It certainly hasn't lessened the appeal of the books to women and girls. Like you, I hope to see more of all the female characters - dead, alive or otherwise - not to mention several of the minor characters of both sexes. I think that will happen now Harry has changed from boy to adolescent. Neil PS - Good point about the term 'Animaga', although it would make McGonagall sound like she should be battling head to head with Godzilla. Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Oct 14 12:33:13 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:33:13 +0100 Subject: McGonagall v Snape, Hermione, adolescents and impatience, polyjuice potion, friendships starting (was Faith) and irony. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3487 I wrote: "McGonagall maybe a strong character but she, IMO, has too little involvement in the stories. Dumbledore is ahead of her in the pecking> order and Snape is roughly level with her." Storm wrote: "I think that Snape does seem 'equal' (though in the school heirarchy he is not) because Snape's role brings him into conflict with Harry we have more of a foucs on him. So I see why, though MacGonagall's apparent superioity she seems "equal" to Snape." Storm has said what I meant to say. I was talking about how we see them in the books and how important their contributions are to the story. Not, as I guess many understood it to mean, that Snape is level with McGonagall in the school hierarchy. I wrote: "She annoys me. Quite a few of the things that people see as being faults in her (taking her studies far too seriously, especially the PoA too many subjects incident, and taking the political stuff too far) " Storm replied: "hmm, Simon I'm going to be *very* american here - so hold on - Its not bad to be opinated or policical! we need ppl like that to stir the pot and make sure we don't sink into a self interested torpor. (soothing music) accept your adolesant self! learn to love H as an expression of your adolesance (jangeling bells, wafting scents) right I'm approriately embarrsess by that little interlude so I'll go back to the post." I do accept my adolescent self, but I also recognize that something's that I did were not good. I am especially referring to the case of 'biting off more than I can chew'. Trying to do too much at school - Hermione thinks she can do it all but almost loses all that is important too her. Part of the reason that Ron and Hermione are not talking, in PoA, is that she is hiding a secret from them and is finding all the work too much to handle. If she had continued on with this then I think she would eventually have ended up, simply due to being too tired and stressed, breaking the important rule of the time-turner. That is not being seen by another version of you. Peg wrote: "This impatience strikes me as . . . sad. I think that the things that we complain about, in Ron and Hermione in particular, are partly a function of the fact that they are entering the gawky adolescent stage. When you're an adolescent, everything is larger than life, and so while some of their extremes make us cringe, I can simultaneously see the admirable adult in there, barely, struggling to emerge. And so I feel very tender and protective of them, rather than annoyed. (But then, I don't have to live with them. Hope I'll be able to say the same thing when my kids are adolescents.)" To me it is a natural response, when seeing someone doing something that you have done wrong in your past, to think about pointing this out to them. And yes, I know that there is little chance of a teenager taking any notice of this! Also I know it helps someone, especially a teenager, to do something wrong as this is the way that they will learn best. I find it really hard to be patient with teenagers (I think this is due to it being such a short time since I was myself one), but can be perfectly patient with young children. Peg wrote: "Well, Ron is the one with him in CoS, but Hermione is the one who researched the polyjuice potion. She's with Harry throughout all the action in PoA. She's the one who resists when Snape tries to run roughshod over them all in the Shrieking Shack, and she's got her wand out to knock Snape unconscious, too. She's the one who, with Harry, rescues Sirius; and she's right beside him, facing the dementors." The polyjuice potion is no consequence to CoS. I think that they would have eventually realised that it was not Malfoy, without this help (I am not trying to belittle Hermione's contribution). The introduction of the polyjuice potion was to warn us what could happen with one person disguised as another - to explain to us what happens in GoF. Peg wrote (in another superb essay): "Harry probably experienced for the first time the sensation of standing up for somebody other than himself when he stuck up for Ron to Draco during the train ride in the first book. And, with trust and loyalty, he begins to define his inner convictions. He rejects Draco's overture of friendship, grounded as it is in an implicit requirement to reject his budding friendship with Ron." Does Harry reject Draco because he wants the friendship, and ultimately the family environment, of Ron or because he has already met Draco and disliked his attitude? Peg wrote: "See! I told you there was a trouble with getting gentle irony across in email!" Big trouble. We need to invent a 'I am joking' or 'I am being ironic' smiley! Or is there already one? Simon (I have been writing this for over an hour now - it is long) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 14 12:34:31 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:34:31 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] administrative stuff References: <8rvlqd+tmn4@eGroups.com> <39E3B899.5FDE83CA@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39E852D7.528A38CB@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3488 I am resending my email of earlier this week. I've only heard from FOUR people (plus myself) - if you're not Simon, Penny, Carole or Neil, and you've already responded PLEASE respond again. If you haven't responded yet, please do so by Monday evening. Thanks! heidi wrote: > Penny has asked me to handle the little job of Reassessing the Chapter > Discussion Allocation. > > As many of you know, this list has weekly discussions of Goblet of Fire, > chapter by chapter, and character (or group of character) by character. > > The person whose chapter it is that week kicks off the chapter discussion by > summarizing & raising "discussion points" or questions. They then, in a > separate post, take the character of the week & do a brief character sketch > & raise some discussion matters. > > Over the course of the week (although some threads have gone on longer) the > list discusses that chapter and the selected character(s) (although, of > course, nothing prevents discussions of other chapters & characters from > popping up as they are wont to do). > > Here's the problem. Some of the people who originally signed up for chapter > discussions have left the list. Other people have joined. > > The current list of chapters and their "sponsors" is at > http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html - but we want to have > *everyone* who has agreed to do a chapter, after Chapter 17, to reconfirm > by emailing ME (not penny) at heiditandy at the-beach.net by OCTOBER 15. > Next monday, any chapters/characters which have not been reconfirmed will > reenter the pot, and I will send around another email asking for volunteers > to take any then-unclaimed chapters. > Chapters 16 & 17 (Trina & Scott) will not change. > > If you know someone who has agreed to do a chapter is out of town, please > let me know & I'll put them in limbo for now. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 14 12:49:22 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:49:22 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters - very long and very opinionated References: <1.5.4.32.20001014123407.00a042ec@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39E85652.837DA9B3@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3489 Neil Ward wrote: > Sadly, we don't know too much about Cho, Angelina, > Parvati, Fleur, Ginny et al, but I'm willing to bet that if we did read some > scenes from *their* perspective, we'd see that they weren't just arm > decorations for the Yule Ball. In that case, despite the tradition of the > boys asking the girls to the Ball, the boys appeared naive and clumsy and > the girls came across as more mature and in control... Just a note on this - certainly, a bunch of girls, including at least one hufflepuff, asked Harry to the dance, so they weren't all just sitting & waiting for someone to ask them. And we don't know for sure whether Seamus asked Lavender, or vice versa - and in my own mind, Pansy asked Draco. Or possibly had her father send an owl to Lucius who ordered Draco to ask her. From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 14 12:56:17 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 07:56:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT References: <8s8jjq+e1lp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E857F0.8A30E84C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3490 Susan McGee wrote: > Charles DeLint's Moonheart? DeLint, DeLint, DeLint! How could I forget DeLint? Anything by him, and there's a bit to choose from--wonderful, well crafted, good characters, great texture, you'll forget to eat. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 14 13:04:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:04:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JKR and women (long, very long) References: <39E768E9.50867708@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39E859E5.6DFE7394@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3491 storm stanford wrote: > but back to the male centred-ness, as a female reader if you are not (identifed with) Hermonie then who can you be? Well, I'm a female reader, and I identify with thoughts and reactions of characters, not their gender. I identified with Lupin in his concern for Harry. I identified with Fred and George in wanting to enter the tournament. Etc. All this about female-centeredness, male centeredness, female/female bonds, etc., is just a bit beyond me. It's a good *work* as a whole. The relationships work, the characters make sense. There's strong females, there's strong males, but when I read a character their gender is not usually the first thing that makes them real; it's their personality. And JKR's characters have loads of personality. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 13:24:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:24:38 -0000 Subject: female characters - very long and very opinionated/OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8s9mqm+oljr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3492 > > However, I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment of Harry Potter. Of course not. Has anyone else seen the movie Starship Troopers? There was such an effort to equalize men and women's roles (having the sky marshall be an african woman for example)....it had a dramatic impact on me.... It was interesting that they changed that from the book From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 14 13:36:16 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:36:16 -0000 Subject: female characters - very long and very opinionated In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001014123407.00a042ec@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8s9ngg+8ahb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3493 The unisex nature of Quidditch, mentioned by Sister ML, is > one of these, but there are others (to my mind, the fact that Molly Weasley > is clearly much stronger than Arthur). I don't know about that one. I think they make a formidable couple and they will figure largely in the new work against Voldemort. In GoF at the end there's a comment to the effect that Arthur was never ambitious --- we may see him replace Fudge as the M of M, stop having fun with muggles and become a great warrior. , anyhow. > > I don't know that JKR is male-identifed as such, because she has said that > she identifies with Hermione. Oh, I don't want to be negative about JKR, since I'm so grateful to her. I think she is somewhat conscious of these issues -- that's why two of the four heads of houses are women, etc. She's trying to indicate that there is equality of opportunity (and compared to other books there is) But Hermione is male identified; therefore I think JKR is. I know *I* was in high school, and probably still am to some extent. It takes quite a bit of time to appreciate women and to find opportunities for exciting fun female bonding stuff. Being male identified tends to be how smart girls deal. (In my own opinion of course) Adolescent female culture is slowly changing (those soccer girls!) and there are more options of how to be a teenaged girl. But it's slow....... I'm hoping that JKR is secretly on this list, and will say "oh, you know why don't I give more time to Ginny, Lily and put some real focus on Rowena Ravenclaw!" Wouldn't that be fun! thanks for allowing me to discuss this without being flamed as anti JKR. Susan From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 14 14:06:21 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:06:21 -0500 Subject: Female characters - very long and very opinionated References: <1.5.4.32.20001014123407.00a042ec@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39E8685D.62D01B9D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3494 Hi --- I was reading my 30 new emails this morning and thinking hard about how I wanted to respond to Susan's original post about the female characters. Gosh darn it all if Neil hasn't made all my points for me! Thanks Neil! :--) Neil Ward wrote: > a) As Steve Bates said, the books are written with Harry as the focal > point. I think this explains why female bonding features and female > bonding is absent. That was going to be my biggest point. We are limited by what Harry hears & observes. He's not going to necessarily overhear McGonagall mentoring Hermione in her office. He wouldn't necessarily overhear a Staff meeting in which McGonagall shines. He's not going to overhear Hermione and Ginny having a late-night serious conversation. We've never seen Hermione's dorm room (and so most of us aren't entirely sure that there are just 3 females there -- Hermione, Parvarti & Lavender). Like Neil said later, you've got to read between the lines because of the male POV. So, remember that Hermione later tells Harry that McGonagall had to go to alot of trouble to get the time turner for her. I think this indicates that there has been a mentoring relationship going on between the two of them -- we just aren't privy to it. McGonagall is Deputy Head Mistress. I agree with Susan's point that she doesn't have as much on-screen time as we might like. But, I think we can read into the fact that she's 2nd in command that she must indeed be the superstar amongst the staff other than Dumbledore (and that Dumbledore is grooming her to be the next Head Mistress). > You make some undeniable points, Susan. Women are pushed into the > background and held to sterotype. I too thought you made excellent points Susan. Lots of the female characters are background characters or have limited purposes. You did a great job of illustrating your argument. And, I think your argument is exactly what Simon was trying to convey yesterday. But, like Neil & Steve, I think the biggest reason for this perception is that the stories are told in Harry's POV. > I think it's important to be able to imagine the things we *don't* > see. > We've noted before that some of the characters are only sketched out > and I think this allows the reader to fill in the missing parts of the > jigsaw to their own design. That's why I imagine the mentoring relationship between McGonagall & Hermione; a mentoring/grooming relationship between McGonagall & Dumbledore; some late-night talks about the meaning of life among the 3 Gryffindor chasers (btw, you do certainly see Angelina, Katie & Alicia taking an active role in Quidditch -- they can stand up to Oliver); a bonding conversation between Hermione & Ginny when Hermione confides that she's going with Krum to the ball; etc. > In that case, despite the tradition of the boys asking the girls to > the Ball, the boys appeared naive and clumsy and the girls came across > as more mature and in control... that was my reading between the > lines, anyhow. I agree! > I don't know that JKR is male-identifed as such, because she has said > that she identifies with Hermione. We could ask why she chose a male > lead? Perhaps it was to avoid having the book cast as reading for > girls, but maybe it was simply because that was the story she wanted > to write and how she wanted to write it. It certainly hasn't lessened > the appeal of the books to women and girls. She's said that about 6 months after she starting thinking about the books & making notes, she suddenly wondered to herself why she was writing about a male protagonist. She said she debated whether she should change Harry to Harriet. Then, she decided that she already liked him too much, and it was Harry (male) who strode fully-formed into her head on that delayed train. So, I don't think it was necessarily a conscious decision. And, I agree with Neil that she's not necessarily a male-centered author. Steve Bates said: > This explains why Hermione is mostly seen as filling a somewhat male role: > because that's how Harry sees her. The fact that she is a girl > probably actually doesn't occur to him, on some level. > Harry and Ron both are a bit guilty of this as is evidenced by the Yule Ball. Ron even says something like "Yeah . . . you are a girl," and she replies "well-spotted" very sarcastically. Similarly, Harry is floored by her appearance when he first sees her with Krum. I think Hermione being "male-identified" is largely attributable to the POV of Harry (and Ron to some extent). Believe me, I think they're both going to identify her more as a female in the coming books. Her best friends are male, but I don't think this makes her male-identified. I've argued in the past (and I won't back away from that argument now) that the relationship between Hermione & Ginny probably isn't as much as the Ginny supporters want it to be. Her friendship with Ginny hasn't resulted in Ginny becoming a member of the Trio. But, it does seem that there is some sort of friendship going on behind the scenes there. And, if she is, as I imagine, developing a strong mentor in McGonagall, then this is yet another female influence in her life. Hermione's parents are also *both* dentists. She doesn't come from a "traditional" home where the mum stayed home then. So . . . I don't think she's as male-identified as Susan thinks. Other than that -- I think Susan had some good points to make. It'd be great if, as Peg suggested, JKR is lurking here & decides to play up some of the other potentially strong female characters a bit more. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 14 14:10:18 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:10:18 -0500 Subject: addendum plus a request References: Message-ID: <39E8694A.A79245A5@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3495 Hi -- storm stanford wrote: > Also - Keepers of the List - do you think we could have a notice on > this > list when new chapers have been posted in ASA/DS/NES? please?. I like > to > read them and I forget to check the list to see where things are up > to. I'd love to get the posts off the POU list which would of course > tell me, but I'm already staggering under the (welcome) weight of > this list. There is a notification that goes out in the PoU list everytime a file is uploaded, but I guess that doesn't help you if you're on webview for that list. I think my general reaction is that most people who care about the PoU/ASA/DS/STNE stories are on that listserve & it would be a bit off-topic to make those announcements here. If there are others in Storm's boat who would like an annoucement of that sort on *this* list, email me privately & I'll see if there's enough interest. My fear is that those announcements would get replied to, and suddenly STNE discussions would be mistakenly going on over here. We have enough volume over here without all that (as you pointed out). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 14 14:27:53 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:27:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione & JKR (Long) References: <39E63A26.EDD0B45C@swbell.net> <39E7C1E8.2B719E33@ibm.net> Message-ID: <39E86D69.C4FAFA86@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3496 Hi -- Peg Kerr wrote: > Oh, I disagree! Well, Ron is the one with him in CoS, but Hermione is > the one who researched the polyjuice potion. She's with Harry > throughout all the action in PoA. She's the one who resists when > Snape tries to run roughshod over them all in the Shrieking Shack, and > she's got her wand out to knock Snape unconscious, too. She's the one > who, with Harry, rescues Sirius; and she's right beside him, facing > the dementors. > I still think you're a little too dismissive of Hermione's contributions. She was > the one who taught him the Accio spell that allowed him to grab the > Triwizard cup back in the graveyard to get back to Hogwarts. And it was also in his > practices with Ron and Hermione that Harry learned the Impedimenta spell, which he > used to slow down the Deatheaters chasing him. > > [Oh, I see Penny made these same point. *Sigh* this is the problem > when you're trying to answer a question that 20 people have answered > before you] You said it a bit better than I did Peg. Hermione has been just as crucial as Ron (and dare I say it without being flamed, perhaps a *bit* more so) in helping Harry achieve the final end in each book. The article of the Salon.com article that sort of started this thread basically discounted Hermione's role in all of it. If you read her take on this situation, you'd imagine that Hermione was back in the Gryffindor common room studying instead of helping Harry & Ron in Books 1 and 3. She was out of commission in Book 2, but Ron was no help at all in Book 3. I said Hermione might be a "bit" more helpful than Ron -- reason being that her contribution involved the research that came up with the spells & hexes & curses that really helped save Harry's life in Book 4. Without her, the boys would have been stopped by the devil's snare in Book 1. Without her, they'd have never known it was a basilisk in Book 2. Without her, there'd have been no time turner & no saving of Buckbeak or Sirius. Without her, Harry might not have been able to summon his Firebolt to get through the First Task. Without her, Harry might not have been as prepared with spells, curses & hexes to get himself & Cedric out of that graveyard. > Applause. Also, very important: Hermione models compassion to Harry > (and Ron). She notices people who are weak (Neville, the house elves) > and refuses to allow others to take advantage of them. That is a very > important thing for Harry to learn--what if he became all powerful, > but allowed only his own arrogance to regulate his behavior? Hermione > won't let him do that. BTW: this characteristic of Hermione is also > from JKR's own life. She worked for Amnesty International, and this > experience > is a real catalyst in the her creation of the house elves story line. More applause! :--) > I think the problem is that I do not like Hermione. She annoys > me. Quite a few of the things that people see as being faults in her > (taking her studies far too seriously, especially the PoA too many > subjects incident, and taking the political stuff too far) are > problems that I know, looking back at my teenage years, that other > people had with me. I can see her doing things that I did, things that > I now realise where either stupid or irrelevant and an inner voice in > me is screaming: "Don't do it - there is no need" Ebony -- are you listening up? :--) Simon, your personal reasons for not identifying with Hermione echo my own reasons for not identifying with Ginny. I look at her character and see some of my own problems as an adolescent (which now makes me cringe), and I've transferred all of that into disrespect for Ginny's character. So, I can understand your feelings. But, like Peg, perhaps we should be more forgiving of these characters as they traverse adolescence. We've all been there! Penny (last long post for awhile -- off for a walk!) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Oct 14 14:49:33 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:49:33 +0100 Subject: Forgiveness and notification of new fan fiction chapters Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3497 Penny wrote: "Simon, your personal reasons for not identifying with Hermione echo my own reasons for not identifying with Ginny. I look at her character and see some of my own problems as an adolescent (which now makes me cringe), and I've transferred all of that into disrespect for Ginny's character. So, I can understand your feelings. But, like Peg, perhaps we should be more forgiving of these characters as they traverse adolescence. We've all been there!" What strikes me most about this reaction is that I have picked a female character. The mistakes do not bother me that much. It is the memories that they stir in me that I want / have to put to one side to continue reading the books. This is why PoA is not my favourite book (I am talking before GoF was published, which was when I started reading the series). It is the best for most other stuff and especially Harry proving his wizarding abilities but the problems with Hermione in the middle get too me. I personally still find PS to be the best book. Penny wrote: "There is a notification that goes out in the PoU list everytime a file is uploaded, but I guess that doesn't help you if you're on webview for that list. I think my general reaction is that most people who care about the PoU/ASA/DS/STNE stories are on that listserve & it would be a bit off-topic to make those announcements here." One possibility would just be to add it as a PS, or quick note, at the end of a message you are already sending. Thus telling those who need to know, while not increasing the number of messages to the group. Simon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 14 14:54:53 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:54:53 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: female ch./Hermione & getting slightly OT Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001014145453.00869f90@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3498 Susan wrote: <<>> I see your point. I guess I was taking what you said a little too literally. I suppose some would say I am, to some extent, a 'female-identified' man, but I would say I'm myself and not following the guide labelled "How To Be A Man". Therefore, I argue that Hermione is not male-identified, she is just independent and self-identified at a young age. Her best friends happen to be two boys because circumstance threw them together, and she (and they) had the mettle to embrace that and not see it as being unexpected gender behaviour. Of course, they weren't making conscious decisions when they bonded; I saw it as a demonstration of the deep basis of human friendship. It's difficult to strike a balance between gender equality and gender identity if one maintains existing assumptions about male and female identity. Who decided, for example, that men like sport and women like chocolate? Am I a gender-challenging freak if I hate football and verge on chocaholism? I think not. What I like about JKR's world is the potential for change in the characters. She uses stereotypes, but she also challenges them (often in the development of individuals). Many of the female characters are sidelined or sketchy, but any of them could take on a greater role or significance at any time. There is no sense, to my mind, that they are stuck with their lot. I dearly hope she explores the potential, but it's her call. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 14 14:57:51 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:57:51 +0100 Subject: Correction... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001014145751.0089d3bc@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3499 I said: "I think this explains why female bonding features and female bonding is absent." Doh! You know I meant "male bonding features"... Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Oct 14 15:45:05 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:45:05 -0000 Subject: Malfoy cast! In-Reply-To: <8s8ij1+fotp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s9v21+bjs9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3500 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: > Tom Felton (who played Anna's son in "The King & I" has been cast. I > just found it at; > > www.empireonline.co.uk > Take a look at his picture in our Files area. It's much better than the one Empire posted. Go to: FILES / Cast Photos / Feltontom1.jpg Take a look at some of our other pictures while you're there! -Jim Flanagan From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Oct 14 15:49:33 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:49:33 -0000 Subject: Malfoy cast! (slight oops) In-Reply-To: <8s9v21+bjs9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8s9vad+3f6j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3501 > It's much better than the one Empire posted. I see they now have the same pic that we do. My apologies. -JF From dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt Sat Oct 14 16:09:06 2000 From: dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt (Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:09:06 +0100 (WET DST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] books / movies In-Reply-To: <001d01c03517$9b3d9c40$eb6a5ecf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3502 On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, lrcjestes wrote: > > > Actually, I also have a suggestion, but it's not the usual sci-fic books, > > and still one of the most famous and popular: Frank Herbert's "Dune" and > > it's sequels. I think it can be compared to the LOTR and it's definitely > > not for children. One of my favourites, > > Now there's a movie that IMO was awful. I'd never read the books, but I'd > heard great things about them...so I went to see the movie. Now, maybe it > was the atmosphere in which I saw the movie...it was in a drafthouse where > they serve pizza and beer during the movie...so it was crowded, and people > were getting up and waitresses were wandering through. I had a hard time > hearing, and could make no sense whatsoever out of the plot...but it sticks > out in my mind as one of the worst movies I've ever seen. > > Whenever my husband and I are referring to a ridiculous plotline in a > movie...we tend to start chanting "the worm is the spice...the spice is the > worm" and burst out laughing..... > > I mean no disrespect to the books, as I have heard from many people they are > great, and maybe I will try them one of these days, but the movie surely > turned me off attempting them for a long time...lets hope that doesn't > happen to Harry. > > carole > I saw the movie too, and it was terrible because the book was turned into an action movie (a bad one actually), when it's a very complex book in it's ideas, but that would be hard to turn into a movie that wouldn't make you want to sleep. The book is great for the ideas and that can't be seen in a 2 hours movie. That movie made me think if I shouldn't have read some books that I didn't read because I had seen the movie... That is why I also don't have big expectations about the HP's movie. Likely, when you see a movie of something you have already a very precise idea about what it should be like, you'll be very disappointed. The movie can't contain all the ideas of a book and IMHO it won't be enough, even if it's a very good movie. Diogo From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Oct 14 16:26:13 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:26:13 -0000 Subject: Cornelius Fudge - Character Study In-Reply-To: <8s8c4v+bqi9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sa1f5+21jf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3503 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, stevekimmel at y... wrote: > For me, Moody was obvious for the very first. Looking back I > attribute it to chapter 13 and 14. In thirteen we see Moody abusing > Draco Malfoy by turning him into a ferret and bouncing him up to the > ceiling and slamming him down against the floor. Like everyone else I > was pleased to see Draco get his just reward for being such a jerk. > However I was suspicious. We had no reason to suspect Moody had any > idea who Draco was so it was simply a teacher seriously abusing a > student. Then in chapter 14 we have Moody breaking the rules again by > torturing and finally killing innocent creatures. I may be wrong but > other than the Boggart in the closet, I think this is the first time > we actually saw anybody kill anything. To make it an innocent > spider... Those are very good points. Did we know from the start that Moody was a friend of Dumble's? I'm thinking we did, plus that he was an auror, and that he didn't let Draco get away with his usual garbage, like Snape always does. So, for these reasons, I fell into JKR's trap (as usual). Now, as the Unforgivable curses are concerned, it made sense to me that the kids ~should~ see them, and in a controlled environment. Spiders seem a fitting choice for this, opposed to say, puppies. Cockroaches would have been better for me... > I had Moody labelled as a bad guy from the start. Fudge, on the other > hand, gave me no reason to believe he was anything but an officious > beaureaucrat. Given he was constantly asking Dumbledore's advice in > Philosopher's Stone and then obtusely refusing it in Goblet of > Fire... I found it a jarring mismatch. I suppose so, and chances are very good that he has gone over to Vold's side; but, the biggest prob he could have as MoM would be Vold coming back, so he could be in serious denial, or just be incredibly dense. I won't be surprised to learn that he ~is~ on Vold's side, all the same. > Given Rowling's apparent love of characters who pretend to be one > thing and then turn out to be something else, Snape who is really > trying to protect Harry, Ron's pet rat who turns out to be a lacky > for Voldemort, Moody who turns out to be someone else completely, I > have little doubt that she will do it again. Fudge turning out to be > a bad guy seems a minor flip compared to some of the others we've > seen. Absolutely! > I'm almost prepared to buy the theory that Nelville Longbottom is > really Peter Pettigrew's son, raised by his grandmother after > Peter's "death." Ha! Now, that would be a twist! Kelley From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 14 17:03:53 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:03:53 -0000 Subject: female ch./Hermione & getting slightly OT In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001014145453.00869f90@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8sa3lp+eabh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3504 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote:> Susan wrote: > > << in high school, and probably still am to some extent. It takes quite a bit > of time to appreciate women and to find opportunities for exciting fun > female bonding stuff. Being male identified tends to be how smart girls deal.>>> > > I see your point. I guess I was taking what you said a little too literally. > > I suppose some would say I am, to some extent, a 'female-identified' man, > but I would say I'm myself and not following the guide labelled "How To Be A > Man". Therefore, I argue that Hermione is not male-identified, she is just > independent and self-identified at a young age. Her best friends happen to > be two boys because circumstance threw them together, and she (and they) had > the mettle to embrace that and not see it as being unexpected gender > behaviour. Of course, they weren't making conscious decisions when they > bonded; I saw it as a demonstration of the deep basis of human friendship. > > It's difficult to strike a balance between gender equality and gender > identity if one maintains existing assumptions about male and female > identity. Who decided, for example, that men like sport and women like > chocolate? Am I a gender-challenging freak if I hate football and verge on > chocaholism? I think not. > > What I like about JKR's world is the potential for change in the characters. > She uses stereotypes, but she also challenges them (often in the development > of individuals). Many of the female characters are sidelined or sketchy, but > any of them could take on a greater role or significance at any time. There > is no sense, to my mind, that they are stuck with their lot. I dearly hope > she explores the potential, but it's her call. > > Neil Interesting thread and some very good points have been made. IMO the most important point was that the books are written from Harry's perspective. But here's a *real-life* question. How many people here had an opposite sex best friend when they were Harry's age (12-14 years) that was comparable to the Hermione-Harry-Ron friendship? I can speak only from my experience, but I don't recall very many boy-girl best friends when I was in my early teens. Those friendships were common when I was about 5 or 6 (my best friend at that age was a boy named Mark), but they fizzled when the boy and girl began to bond with same sex friends. :-)Milz From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Oct 14 17:09:27 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:09:27 -0000 Subject: Female characters In-Reply-To: <8s8c4v+bqi9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sa407+f5gb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3505 Susan, that was beautifully said. I wholeheartedly agree. I also see the validity of Neil's points. Very true, that the story is from Harry's pov, and yes, Hermione is a wonderfuly strong and engaging character. And, after her, for the girls, I love Angelina Johnson-- she wanted to compete to be champion! Go Angelina! However, when I think about wanting a strong female character, I'm thinking of the adults. I'd love to see more sides of McG, more than just scolding the kids about rule-breaking. I was very pleased when she took Harry to Oliver Wood and said "I've found your new seeker." But, there's so little else we see of her. Who is she? I think Susan's statements are the biggest reason I would like to see a female DADA prof. Someone strong and smart and VIVID. More dimensions than the other adult females. I'd love to see "Ripley" or "Xena", that kind of character. A female who's a combination of Sirius and Lupin. I love all the characters, but the parts I enjoy reading the most, after the kids' adventures, are when Sirius, Lupin, Dumble, or Snape are involved. The men. I'd just like a woman to be in that group. Kelley From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 14 17:27:21 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:27:21 -0500 Subject: Male/Female Friendships References: <8sa3lp+eabh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E89779.49076B88@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3506 Hi -- milz wrote: > But here's a *real-life* question. How many people here had an > opposite sex best friend when they were Harry's age (12-14 years) > that was comparable to the Hermione-Harry-Ron friendship? Raises hand & waves it in the air frantically! Yes, I had more male friends than female from about 7th grade (age 12/13) on. My 2 best male friends from jr high & high school were attendants in my wedding. I also had & have close female friendships, but my male best friends have been more consistently a part of my life I would say. I've been friends with them for more than half my life now. I don't think either that it was *that* rare. I know lots of women who had close male friends in that time period & are my generation & earlier. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 18:42:02 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:42:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reading SS (American version) References: <8s77gp+fa8m@eGroups.com> <39E78B79.46F33E83@texas.net> Message-ID: <007801c0360e$720758a0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3507 Amanda, as I haven't gotten through the 255 emails in my inbox completely yet, I am not certain if anyone else has answered your question. I adore vampires, and I collect random bits of information where I can. In the anime the Vampire Hunter D, D is the offspring of a vampire and a peasant woman (supposed Dracula's son). That makes him a dhamphir (sometimes spelled differently!), or a daywalker. There is also the concept out of Blade, the movie, where a child is considered dhamphir when the mother is attacked when she is pregnant with them. That's just two theories. There are many others, some of which have vampires capable of sex just like anyone else. :) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Reading SS (American version) mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > > I am a believer in Snape being at least part-vampire. Again, > I think Snape is at least part-vampire and Quirrell knows > this, possibly from Voldemort? What sort of vampires are we talking, here? Folklorically, being part vampire is like being sort of pregnant. You are or you're not. It's a magical malady, like lycanthropy. Being preyed upon by a vampire either kills you, whereupon you usually become one yourself, or it doesn't, and you recover. But mommy vampires and daddy vampires don't make little ones; how can someone be part vampire? --Amanda eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 18:52:22 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:52:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Books: Terry Goodkind & HP (SOME SPOILERS FOR SOT) References: <001d01c03517$9b3d9c40$eb6a5ecf@oemcomputer> <39E7964C.308E@voyager.net> Message-ID: <009901c0360f$e8219c20$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3508 *Spoiler space, just in case* * * * * * * * Let's see. A common man/boy ends up being one of the most famous people in the world? Or that his grandfather/mentor is the most powerful wizard in the world? I can see similarities that Hermione "could" become a "Mother". Oh, and that Richard learns magic from said Mentor, while fighting off demons from hell (that box), and other nasties? Draco and Richard's brother (can't recall his name, the one who was going around killing the prostitutes) have the same looks, at least I think so? If not, then at least they have the same personality! Hmm. Dragons? The villagers could be house elves? Then of course, Richard's adopted brother could be a perfect Dudley (again more in personality)--I think his name was Michael? I have to say it, though. Could you see McG as a mord-sith? Or Fleur or Ginny? (THAT would be a sight--red hair in red leather!) :) Dee I just can't see ----- Original Message ----- From: Elf and Orc To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 6:10 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Books: Terry Goodkind & calendars Greetings; I have been listening to Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series on books on tape (currently on Temple of the Winds, Book 4) and they keep making me think of an x-rated, adult, very intense Harry Potter series. I am not seeing any copying or anything or a similarity in writing style but there are similarities. The hero has an invisibility cloak, his parents were both murdered. There were some other similarities as well but I am blanking. Has anyone else read/listened to this series? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Sat Oct 14 18:03:46 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:03:46 +0200 Subject: [OT] Opposite sex best friends References: <8sa3lp+eabh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006201c03609$1a497080$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3509 > But here's a *real-life* question. How many people here had an > opposite sex best friend when they were Harry's age (12-14 years) > that > was comparable to the Hermione-Harry-Ron friendship? I can speak only > from my experience, but I don't recall very many boy-girl best > friends > when I was in my early teens. Those friendships were common when I > was > about 5 or 6 (my best friend at that age was a boy named Mark), but > they fizzled when the boy and girl began to bond with same sex > friends. Yes! I did and I do! From when I was 7 to when I was 12, 3 of my 4 best friends were guys, and two of them were schoolmates with whom I made an absolutely unseperable trio. And now that I look back on it, I believe I was the good-grades-getter of the group - although we were a lot more competitive than Harry, Ron, and Hermione. Then, I moved out of the States, and spend two years friendless, apart from a fair-weather friend who probably only befriended me because I was the smart girl with good grades who sat next to her and might help out in class. Then another year at a new school, changing classes in the middle of the year just when I was beginning to make friends. Just this school year, I met a bunch of new kids/kids from other classes and actually have close friends for the first time in several years outside of summer camp. One of them is a guy, and I actually think I get along with him the best. So although I have fewer guy friends now, I don't quite agree that intersex, platonic friendships kind of fade away in adolescence. I do agree that they're a lot likelier to be misinterpreted, though. As in conversations like 'Hey, are you and Patrick a couple?' 'No!' 'I don't believe you...' 'nnngh...'. Apologies for the rambling, Firebolt From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 14 17:47:24 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:47:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters - very long and very opinionated References: <2f.bc26797.27193cc2@aol.com> Message-ID: <39E89C2C.7BB10E56@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3510 Schlobin at aol.com wrote: > I fear that I will be shot for this post, but here goes anyway. > But I must suggest that JKR is male-identified. That is, she sees Hermione > (and probably herself) as the exception. Hermione is not like the other > girls. She doesn't giggle, run in packs, or do a lot of the other > traditionally girl behavior that JKR doesn't particularly like. She's > brilliant, hard working, and takes things seriously. She is NOT just the girl > who helps the boy slay the dragon (as someone suggests). Who helped > save Sirius Black? She's adventurous; she's inventive. But she is the > EXCEPTION. > Just as many strong, intelligent women, she survives/flourishes by hanging > out with men and bonding with men. She demonstrates that she can be feminine > and attract men by attracting > a GoF champion, and looking beautiful at the Yule Ball. She can do it all if > she wants, but she has nothing in common with the vast majority of > women/girls. You have some points, but I honestly don't know what you mean by "male-identified." She is exceptional, yes. And she is friends with boys, yes. But as someone (Neil?) pointed out; she is probably friends with girls, too, but we just don't see that as much because the story is told from Harry's P-O-V. Anyway, I honestly don't understand why you think her exceptional-ness and her friendships with men makes her less female--but perhaps I am just missing what you mean by the term? What is it about being an exceptional student that makes her less female? What is about reading books and knowing what's in them that rearranges or negates Hermione's internal plumbing? Please understand, I'm not trying to make this come across as a flame; I'm just honestly baffled by your reasoning. This whole thread reminds me of Joanna Russ' book _How to suppress Women's Writing._ I don't mean you're trying to suppress JKR's writing; what I mean is that, you see a cool-headed, smart woman, and your reaction is, "she's doesn't come across as female." It's like having the idea that you're praising a woman novelist by saying "she writes like a man." Why? Do you have any doubts that Hermione thinks she is a girl? I don't in the least. Is being cool-headed, non-giggly, and competent inconsistent with feminity? I just don't think it is. > Just as many strong, intelligent women, she survives/flourishes by hanging > out with men and bonding with men. No, no, no, no, no. She survives/flourishes by being a good student and a decent, kind-hearted, conscientious human being. She would continue to be the same person if she hung with Lavendar or Parvil instead. I remember the story about a mother who reported being furious at her son's basketball coach, who jeered from the sidelines at a practice session, "You're shooting like a girl." And she was so proud when her son, who had been watching the women's basketball lately, and just lit up like a firefly and said, "You mean I'm shooting like Sheryl Swopes? Hey, thanks!" Peg From foxmoth at qnet.com Sat Oct 14 18:11:14 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:11:14 -0000 Subject: Reading SS (American version) In-Reply-To: <007801c0360e$720758a0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8sa7k2+j7cs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3511 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > In the anime the Vampire Hunter D, D is the offspring of a vampire and a peasant woman (supposed Dracula's son). That makes him a dhamphir (sometimes spelled differently!), or a daywalker. There is also the concept out of Blade, the movie, where a child is considered dhamphir when the mother is attacked when she is pregnant with them.< Thanks, Dee! When I ran my vampire theory past my 13 year old, he told me about Vampire Hunter D, but I didn't put that in my post, since I'm not real familiar with it myself. I'd run across the Dhamphir term, too, but wasn't sure where it was from. Of course the whole thing may be balderdash, but wouldn't it be terribly ironic and oh so JKR if it turned out that Snape, being a vampire, was in no particular danger from Remus the night he investigated the whomping willow? Pippin From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 19:39:44 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:39:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR interview Dec 1999, j/k, References: <8s8d7p+k82t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011e01c03616$8298b440$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3512 ---------------------------------------- It was that as well as the Arthur influence that made me think Moody was a good guy. And, honestly, I have to admit that during reading the "bouncing ferret" I was laughing so hard, I couldn't think beyond the scene to the fact about abusing the students! ------------------------------------------- There is one Simon: j/k! ---------------------------------------- Interesting! And didn't she say we'd discover something rather interesting (aka big!) about Lily at the same time? Book 7 for both characters..... kinda supports the Lily/Snape theory! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bkretsch at spamcop.net Sat Oct 14 18:54:22 2000 From: bkretsch at spamcop.net (Bonnie Kretschmer) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:54:22 -0000 Subject: Snape in love In-Reply-To: <39E0D4F4.A9622172@texas.net> Message-ID: <8saa4u+mhub@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3513 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Oh, but I see such tragic possibilities, too....Snape's no > longer in a position, with the return of Voldemort, to be free > to love anyone (by which I mean to expose them to potential > danger by acknowledging a relationship or even feelings). In > my opinion, Snape clearly has some less-than-safe role to play > with the Death Eaters. What a lousy time to find the love of > your life. Actually the rumor is that Snape will find love in Book 7. If that is the case, then (with the downfall of Voldemort) Snape would actually be quite free to love and do so quite happily. However the basis for the rumor also supports the Lily love story line which I tend to think is more likely, even if I would personally prefer to see Snape live happily ever after. > So while Snape may be launched into a redemptive pattern > (great term), Thanks, but not mine, see below. > I don't think he'll find fulfillment this time either (I am > of the loved-Lily school). So am I, however I think there is room for both of these story lines together. After all, there is nothing to cure a broken heart like a new love. :o) > At least, if he denies love himself this time, instead of > being dumped, it's a bit more noble. True, as well as being better on the self-esteem. :o) However, I think that if the future Mrs. Snape doesn't show herself until book 7, he may not have to deny himself anything.... > And where did you get hold of the rumor that he falls in love, > again? > > --Amanda I think the Snape-falling-in-love rumor started because of a radio interview with Christopher Lydon on WBUR's The Connection. Below is a transcript of the section on Snape (made available to me by Angie_v10 on the coolboards group). You can listen to the whole interview in RealAudio on their web page - which I did. Lydon: What about Snape? Rowling: OK, Snape is the -- a very sadistic teacher. Loosely based on a teacher I myself had, I have to say. I think it -- children are very aware -- and we -- we're kidding ourselves if we don't think that they are -- that teachers do sometimes abuse their power. And this particular teacher does abuse his power. He's not a -- he's not a particularly pleasant person at all. However ... everyone should keep their eye on Snape, I'll just say that, because there's more to him than meets the eye, and you will find out part of what I'm talking about if you read Book Four. And no, I'm not trying to drum up more sales, go to the library and get it out, I'd rather people read it -- Lydon: One of our -- one of our Internet correspondents wondered if Snape is going to fall in love. Rowling (laughing): Yeah ... who on earth would want Snape in love with them? That is a very horrible idea. My note: *I think the rumor was started by the initial automatic reaction that JKR had: that "yeah". However, after hearing it myself, I think it was meant as more sarcastic, as in, "yeah, like that would happen ... NOT!" So, as I said before, not ironclad, but still an interesting thought.* Lydon: Well, you get an important kind of redemptive pattern with Snape, and then -- *Yes, this is where I got that cool phrase. I wish I could take credit for it, but I can't.* *sheepish grin* Rowling: It -- it is, isn't it? I -- I -- there's so much I wish I could say to you, and I can't because it ruins -- I -- I promise you -- whoever asked that question, can I just say to you that I'm -- I'm slightly stunned that you've said that, and you'll find out why I'm so stunned if you read Book Seven. And that's all I'm going to say. *Thus the rumor was born that Snape falls in love in book 7.* As you can see, she could also very easily be talking about Snape being in love with Lily and that we find out about it in book 7. After all, she has also said that we will find out much about Lily in books 5 and 7, including something quite astonishing in book 7. Hope that helps! Bonnie From dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt Sat Oct 14 19:41:09 2000 From: dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt (Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:41:09 +0100 (WET DST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8saa4u+mhub@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3514 About this issue, from what I read here of the interview, it's very unlikely to happen. It seems like if JKR doesn't intend to change his character much and wouldn't it be changing a "little", making Snape a lover? Would you see the same evil sadistic teacher flirting on McGonagall, offering some magical romantic flowers? My idea is that what she meant about the very-important-thing-about-Snape has more to do with Dumbledore than to James or Lily. Even Dumbledore being such a trusting person, what would make him forgive a DE, leaving him free, and assigning him a vital misson in fighting Vold? He could easily turn to the other side now that Voldy is back... I don't think there is any relation between Snape and Lilly, I think that's a little too conventinal. The two rivals that became rivals because they fought for the same girl? From another perspective, that might just be the link to his hate for James. But would his jealousy be enough to hate him to death and then his son after him? Probably yes, because Harry is the fruit of the love between Lily and James, something Snape couldn't have. Just one thought: The imperio curse was avoided by Harry even in the first time that Moody tried it on him. Why weren't the much more powerful magician's able to avoid it as well? For what I understood it was a matter of force of will and I doubt Harry is the only one with lots of it. Crouch(father) was only able to resist it after a long time. Maybe the Cruciatus curse was the way to weaken him and make him less efective against the Imperio. Anyway, my point is that Harry probably got the resistance to that particular spell from Voldemort. Maybe when he(Vold) was learning the dark arts he also looked for protections for the curses (that would make him a great DADA teacher :) Any ideas? Diogo From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 14 19:47:04 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:47:04 -0000 Subject: Snape in love/ and vampires In-Reply-To: <8saa4u+mhub@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sad7o+o3ai@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3515 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Bonnie Kretschmer" wrote: > As you can see, she could also very easily be talking about Snape > being in love with Lily and that we find out about it in book 7. > After all, she has also said that we will find out much about Lily > in books 5 and 7, including something quite astonishing in book 7. Something quite astonishing about Lily in Book 7! After reading my these posts about vampires, what springs into my head is that we will learn that Lily is a vanmpire and it was her who infected Severus and THAT, not the stuff about James, is the reason he hates Harry so much. No, I don't believe a word of it. in re fetal vampires: There is a fabulously funny song on the subject, called Baby Vampire Boogie. (It's by a band named Windbourne and searching the Web should tell you how to buy the album.) in re Neville as son of Peter: that occurs in the hysterically funny (but not very accurate: the chronology is all wrong) story 'Son of Scabbers' on ffnet. From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 14 19:47:54 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:47:54 -0500 Subject: To vampire, or not to vampire References: <8s77gp+fa8m@eGroups.com> <39E78B79.46F33E83@texas.net> <007801c0360e$720758a0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39E8B869.B87555D5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3516 Denise Rogers wrote: > In the anime the Vampire Hunter D, D is the offspring of a vampire and a peasant woman (supposed Dracula's son). That makes him a dhamphir (sometimes spelled differently!), or a daywalker. There is also the concept out of Blade, the movie, where a child is considered dhamphir when the mother is attacked when she is pregnant with them. Yeah, but hasn't JKR tended to go with "standard" European versions? I mean, Dracula wasn't a standard folkloric vampire either, but he's closer, and in most of the pre-Rice vampires they're dead. And if you like vampires, I'd suggest you read "Vampires, Burial, and Death" by Paul Barber, which is an multi-cultured analysis of death, what happens to bodies after death, and how observation of these processes has led to the various vampire legends and traditions. Kind of graphic if you weren't raised in the country, but I thought it was wonderful. It contrasts the "Hollywood vampire" with the "folklore vampire" quite well. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 14 19:50:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:50:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading SS (American version)/Vampires References: <8s8p47+pvnc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E8B90F.AE14CC6E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3517 Susan McGee wrote: > AND, who has read Bram Stoker's Dracula..now THERE is a powerful book! Ah, but even there we have Van Helsing explaining that a vampire is less than a man. Dracula was exceptional--because he had been such a leader, he retained some of his faculties after death into the vampire state. ---Amanda From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 14 20:03:00 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:03:00 +0100 Subject: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001014200300.0089bb5c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3518 Bonnie wrote: <<>> Snape in love? Yes, it seems odd, but... Continuing the 'Harry's POV' line, how much of Snape's persona is due to the way he appears to the kids? I can think of several of my old teachers who were either unlikeable or downright vicious, but who revealed unexpected traits later on. One English teacher was a particularly nasty character - always sacastic and unyielding - but he carried on teaching us when he developed a terminal brain tumour and could no longer see, because he wanted to do it (and in the end, we wanted him to do it). Another teacher - A Chemistry teacher - was the bane of my life, until he and his wife volunteered to chaperone a school trip to Switzerland. I discovered that he was funny, generous and very cool. He didn't change his teaching style, but I changed my view of him and rose from the bottom to the top of his class. I'd hated his guts, but he changed my life. Okay, I think I'm stretching a point here, because JKR clearly intends Snape to be vile, bitter and unpopular (even with the adults), but who, part from the author, knows what we *don't* know about him? What hobbies does he have? Who are his friends? What is the big secret with him? Equally, the teachers who seem nice and harmless may be hiding something more sinister. Perhaps Professor Sprout is a sadist - look at her treament of the Mandrakes. *** Re boy-girl friendships (following Milz asking who had them at 12-14): Personally, I'd say a person's sex is quite far down the attribute list when it comes to making friends, but I can't deny my history of hanging out with girls. Just to contradict myself, I went to an all-male grammar school, so at 12-14 my fast friends were boys, but until that point, I'd had boy and girl friends in equal measure. As a pre-teen, my theatrically-minded parents sent me to a 'school of dancing,' where I was hugely outnumbered by girls. I'd often, also, play house with the girls in my street while the boys kicked a football around; the girls always wanted to be 'nurses,' swept off their feet by my amorous 'doctor' (hmmmm, and this was the late 60s/early 70s - so much for the sexual revolution). At college, I was part of a group of five friends - two women and three men - and there was sexual tension, but no sexual action, between us. We all had other friends and loves as well. I see nothing odd in Hermione's friendship with Harry and Ron. My understanding of Susan's phrase 'male-identified' is that it refers to Hermione being "one of the boys" and denying herself the chance of female bonding experiences. I do think that's an incorrect assumption. If JKR had not made Hermione a close friend of the two boys, she may have ended up as another extra in the story or as one of a pair or threesome of girls involved in some side-plot. By making her a platonic, close friend of Harry's JKR ensured that at least one girl was central to the action. Surely Hermione doesn't return to the Gryffindor girls' dormitory each night and just sit on her hands? She might be a bit of a loner, but I doubt that she's shunned by the other girls. Neil, who is supposed to be working tonight, but who feels like rambling... Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sat Oct 14 20:08:02 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:08:02 -0000 Subject: Snape in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8saef2+4ct3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3519 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis wrote: > what > she meant about the very-important-thing-about-Snape has more to do with > Dumbledore than to James or Lily. Even Dumbledore being such a trusting > person, what would make him forgive a DE, leaving him free, and assigning > him a vital misson in fighting Vold? He could easily turn to the other > side now that Voldy is back... The Snape/redemptive pattern might have to do with Dumbledore. But when Rowling answers, "I promise you--whoever asked that question (love question), can I just say to you that I'm slightly stunned.....read book Seven. I don't believe that has to do with Dumbledore. > > I don't think there is any relation between Snape and Lilly, I > think that's a little too conventinal. The two rivals that became rivals > because they fought for the same girl? From another perspective, that > might just be the link to his hate for James. But would his jealousy be > enough to hate him to death and then his son after him? Probably yes, > because Harry is the fruit of the love between Lily and James, something > Snape couldn't have. I still don't like the Snape/Lily thought. I just don't see him going to school with Lily, watching her date James, the Potters having a baby and still hoping that she would be his. Or after all this time still mad because Lily dumped him or something of the sort. I just don't see it. > Martha From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 14 20:47:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:47:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape in love (and Imperio curse) References: Message-ID: <39E8C66A.DFACC247@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3520 Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis wrote: > About this issue, from what I read here of the interview, it's > very unlikely to happen. It seems like if JKR doesn't intend to change his > character much and wouldn't it be changing a "little", making Snape a > lover? Would you see the same evil sadistic teacher flirting on > McGonagall, offering some magical romantic flowers? We have seen very little of Snape outside the classroom or in other administrative postures. We *have* seen good evidence that there's a strong poetic side to him. I've had evil sadistic teachers who had entire home lives with no sadism involved. We simply don't know anything about Snape that hasn't been filtered through the perceptions of a teenage boy who is a student of his, doesn't like him, and doesn't know all the repercussions of the immediate history of the new world he inhabits. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 14 20:49:49 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:49:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: female ch./Hermione & getting slightly OT References: <8sa3lp+eabh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E8C6ED.A1E1A295@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3521 milz wrote: > But here's a *real-life* question. How many people here had an > opposite sex best friend when they were Harry's age (12-14 years) > that > was comparable to the Hermione-Harry-Ron friendship? Me, too. Tory across the street was a very close friend through late middle school and early high school. He and I had lots of adventures, from making cookies to sneaking out to toilet paper a mutual "enemy," and there was never any hint of romantic involvement. He was fun. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 14 20:53:17 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:53:17 -0500 Subject: Off-Topic Stereotype Observations References: <8s9mqm+oljr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E8C7BD.19B4378E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3522 Susan McGee wrote: > Of course not. Has anyone else seen the movie Starship Troopers? > There was such an effort to equalize men and women's roles (having > the sky marshall be an african woman for example)....it had a > dramatic impact on me.... It was interesting that they changed that > from the book Is anyone besides me getting tired of the man generally being the idiot in commercials and shows and such? The white man, most times? Why should elevating women and our perception of them mean that we must denigrate men? On a related note, has anyone noticed that overweight characters are often the bad guys, or bumbling idiots? (Jurassic Park springs to mind, also as an example where the movie changed the book to have the girl and not the boy save the day). I think weight is an often overlooked and thus still very perpetuated stereotype. --Amanda (okay, a little overweight herself) From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 14 21:08:01 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:08:01 -0000 Subject: Snape/Lily (was: in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8saef2+4ct3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sahvh+1ola@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3523 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > I still don't like the Snape/Lily thought. (snip) > Or after all this time still mad because Lily dumped him or > something of the sort. I don't like the Snape/Lily thought because it is too conventional (as Diogo said). However, it can be expanded to explain not only why Snape hates Harry, but why Snape turned against the Death Eaters. The following expansion is all speculation except what is labelled otherwise. I think it is generally assumed that young Severus never made any time with Lily, except that she may have smiled and been polite to him because she smiled and was polite to everyone. (Altho' the angst would be that much more intense if Severus and Lily had been happily engaged to be married when Lily broke off their engagement and married James, who had also broken off a happy engagement for the purpose, not because they were in love, but because they knew from prophecy or genetic analysis that they were THE two people who could make a baby that would grow up to defeat Voldemort. THAT would be ASTONISHING, all right!) Instead, the idea is that Severus already hated James for having everything that Severus wanted and didn't have (popularity, Quidditch stardom, the best grades in their year, Head Boy, loving parents, praise from Dumbledore, etc) (and hated James' friends for being friends with James), and the Whomping Willow prank was just the icing on the cake, And then, on top of all else, James also got the one thing that Severus had come to want the most of anything in his life: Lily. Snape didn't expect Lily to leave James and come to him, but still he didn't want Lily to be killed, so when he learned of Voldemort's plan to kill the Potter family because of some prophecy that a Potter man would be his downfall, Snape demanded that Voldemort spare her. Snape was a sufficiently valuable servant that V humored him by promising not to kill Lily if she didn't get in the way: "instead I'll give her to you to do with as you will". That is why Lily was the *only* one of V's victims who was offered the chance not to die. But Snape knew that Lily would never accept her life at the price of her baby's life, so his next attempt to save her was that he warned Our Side of Their Side's plot against the Potters. Remember, a spy among the Dark Siders was how the Potters knew to go into hiding, and protect their hiding place with the Fidelius Charm. Despite all, V found and killed the Potters. S, now craving nothing but vengeance for Lily, walked out on V and over to D, who completely trusts S because D knows how implacably S holds grudges. Therefore, V knows that S has left him forever and S can no longer act as a double agent. The grudges that S holds include not only old schoolboy grudges, but also an additional grudge against James and a personal (rather than inherited) grudge against Harry, because it was Their Fault that Lily died, and an additional grudge against Sirius, because he believed it was Sirius who had betrayed Lily to her death. It has been pointed out that he shows signs of hating Sirius much more than he hates James' other friend, Remus. Unfortunately, it has also been pointed out that it is difficult to reconcile the ideas that S thinks Sirius was the traitor, that S didn't walk out until after L was killed, and V's Death Eaters (both S and Peter were marked) knew each other: surely S would have seen Peter and not Sirius at DE meetings. From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sat Oct 14 21:16:07 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:16:07 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew, Deatheaters and mugs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8saien+l6dd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3524 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > > There is the possibility that Pettigrew is not a DE. He may be working for > Voldemort, and be a spy for him, but this in no way makes him a DE. > > > > > > Simon After Wormtail received his new hand from Voldemort: Wormtail stood up and took his place in the circle......Seems like he knew right where to go!!! Also, some of the Death Eaters Voldemort passes in silence, but he paused before others and spoke to them. Fudge and Bagman could be there but we just don't know it. But then of course weren't they at the tournament. Or at least Fudge? From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 14 21:21:45 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:21:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape in love References: <39E8C66A.DFACC247@texas.net> Message-ID: <39E8CE69.A6EE5EC3@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3525 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > We simply don't know anything about Snape that hasn't > been filtered through the perceptions of a teenage boy who is a student of > his, doesn't like him, and doesn't know all the repercussions of the immediate > history of the new world he inhabits. > > --Amanda Well, not entirely. Sirius has some unflattering opinions about Snape to air as well. But then, at the time Sirius interacted with Snape, HE was a teenage boy, too, probably competing with Snape academically, and Sirius didn't like him either. Peg From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 14 21:25:12 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:25:12 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith (Long) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001014212512.00a03638@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3526 Thanks Peg. I really enjoyed your Faith discussion. Even if it is a "sugar-spun fantasy" on your part, it makes great reading and puts a new slant on things. At first, when you mentioned the Seven Heavenly Virtues, I was puzzled. I'd never heard of them either, at least not as a group. Then I started trying to list them: 'Faith, Hope, Charity and... um, Patience is a virtue isn't it and ...aaaargh... Being Kind To Animals?...erm?'. So, I'm glad you posted the URL of that site... Okay, let's recap. Put simply, we can have faith in someone or something [trust], we can have a faith [religion/belief] and we can keep the faith [duty/loyalty]. Faith, to me, is the foundation stone of friendship and that is demonstrated clearly in the loyal friendship of Harry, Hermione and Ron. The scene you mentioned, between Harry and Ron, and the scene with the three of them and the troll, are points at which friendships are unshakeably forged, and like the product of a chemical reaction, it's enduring. That's why any sort of betrayal or distrust between the three of them is so painful - it shakes the faith they have in each other. On a more mundane level Harry has to have enough faith in a highly illogical magical world to run at solid barriers, use floo powder, touch portkeys and eat gillyweed. Without a fundamental belief in the magical world would any of these things have worked? When it comes to duty, Harry is singled out as special and does his duty to the wizarding world - starting from the crib - and is still taking risks to protect others, even if his motives are elsewhere. Sins are sins, mild or severe, but virtues are qualities which can be good under control and damaging in excess. I'd say faith is only virtue if it's kept in check. It has the potential to be quite dangerous, as in the "blind faith" of some religions. Being too trusting of people can lead to gullibility. Duty can lead to isolation. Loyalty isn't always a two-way street. Every every shiny coin has another side... Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sat Oct 14 21:37:42 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 14 Oct 2000 21:37:42 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <971559462.97595@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3527 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Cedric's Funeral.htm Uploaded by : catlady at wicca.net Description : This is supposed to be a tearjerker, but I'm having trouble writing the ending. You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/Cedric%27s+Funeral%2Ehtm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, catlady at wicca.net From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sat Oct 14 21:38:07 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:38:07 -0000 Subject: Snape/Lily (was: in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8sahvh+1ola@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sajnv+ss0j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3528 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > > > > > Instead, the idea is that Severus already hated James for having > everything that Severus wanted and didn't have (popularity, Quidditch > stardom, the best grades in their year, Head Boy, loving parents, > praise from Dumbledore, etc) (and hated James' friends for being > friends with James), and the Whomping Willow prank was just the icing > on the cake, I can see the above. And personally, I agree with Snape about Harry and all the strutting he does and probably his father.....but that is another subject!!! > > > Snape was a sufficiently valuable servant that V humored him by > promising not to kill Lily if she didn't get in the way: "instead > I'll give her to you to do with as you will". That is why Lily was > the *only* one of V's victims who was offered the chance not to die. Well, Snape would sure have to be high on Voldemort's list since Voldemort doesn't really seem to care about his Death Eaters or followers (Quirrell as an example). It seems more plausible that for some reason it was Lily whom he cared (if possible) for some reason. Again, maybe I just don't want it to be Snape?Lily. > > > walked out on V and over to D, who completely > trusts S because D knows how implacably S holds grudges. Therefore, V > knows that S has left him forever and S can no longer act as a double > agent. I have to believe there is a much better, and stronger reason for Dumbledore to trust in Snape even though I am sure there is some truth to the above statement. > > and an additional grudge against Sirius, because he believed it > was Sirius who had betrayed Lily to her death. It has been pointed > out that he shows signs of hating Sirius much more than he hates > James' other friend, Remus. I think Snape and Sirius have hated each other for a long time and we probably don't know all the reasons just yet. I mean, really, Black did try to do harm to Snape. That would in itself be hard to forgive. But I do think it is possible that Snape believes Sirius was responsible for the Potter's death. Maybe in some way Snape and Lily are related? > surely S would have seen > Peter and not Sirius at DE meetings. I do find that strange. From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 14 21:50:21 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:50:21 -0000 Subject: 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith (NOT Long ANY MORE) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001014212512.00a03638@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8saket+8ggu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3529 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > > At first, when you mentioned the Seven Heavenly Virtues, I was > puzzled. I'd never heard of them either, at least not as a group. > Then I started trying to list them: 'Faith, Hope, Charity and... > um, Patience is a virtue isn't it and ...aaaargh... Being Kind To > Animals?...erm?'. So, I'm glad you posted the URL of that site... I'd never heard the term Heavenly Virtues either, but they are a combination of the three Cardinal Virtues and the four IIRC Theological Virtues. Faith, Hope, and Charity (also called Love) are the three Cardinal Virtues, a fairly normal set of names for girl triplets, and the original (in Spanish) names of three streets that are currently in the MIDDLE of Downtown Los Angeles but were at the time the western- most streets of the pueblo. Esperanza was renamed Hope, no problem, and I don't know why Fe was renamed Flower, but Caridad was first renamed to Charity, and then changed to Grand Avenue when Anglo residents complained about saying they were living on Charity. > Sins are sins, mild or severe, but virtues are qualities which can > be good under control and damaging in excess. I'd say faith is only > virtue if it's kept in check. One of the Theological Virtues (or are they called Prudential Virtues?) is TEMPERANCE. Unlike the anti-alcohol movement, TEMPERANCE doesn't mean asceticism, it means everything in moderation. From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 21:51:48 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:51:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Half vampires (mostly OT) Message-ID: <20001014215148.27001.qmail@web4803.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3530 Wow! Keeping up with this list is a full time job (let alone working on the FAQs)! I just wanted to weigh in on the (almost) dead vampire thread. When I first saw the term half-vampire on this list, I thought of the 1980s brat-pack movie "The Lost Boys." Does anyone remember that one, with Kiefer Sutherland and the two Coreys (Haim and Feldman)? "The Lost Boys" had a very unique vampire folklore. In that world, IIRC, you became a half-vampire when you and a vampire drank each other's blood. Your first kill made you a full vampire. But if your sire (the vampire with whom you exchanged blood) died before you became a full vampire, you became human again (or maybe it was the head vampire who had to die). Jason Patric and Jamie Gertz spent most of the movie as half vampires. They became human again when the head vampire was killed (also killing their sire, Kiefer Sutherland). In the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" world, I suppose Angel and Spike could almost be called half vampires. Angel, because a Gypsy curse gave him back his conscience, and he chooses not to kill. Spike, because of a device that prevents him from attacking humans. At the end of PoA, Dean Thomas speculated that they might have a vampire for a DADA teacher the following year. When Angel tires of fighting Los Angeles demons, maybe he should apply. He certainly has the experience. Of course, that doesn't necessarily make him teacher material, but compared to Quirrell or Lockhart... I can almost feel a crossover fanfic coming on! Melanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From lrcjestes at msn.com Sat Oct 14 22:10:52 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:10:52 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith (Long) References: <39E7E725.143F0FCB@ibm.net> Message-ID: <009b01c0362b$9e577800$0a6a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3531 > > Once Lupin and Sirius finally face each other--and Peter--in the Shack, > they each must decide whether to trust again, to have faith again. > Lupin does, stepping forward to embrace Sirius like a brother, > reclaiming their old relationship of trust. And then, together with > Harry, he convinces Sirius to believe, to trust, that he, too, can have > a true, faith-based life again--not a orgy of rage, despair and revenge, > ending with his murdering Peter, but a real one, rooted in his rightful > place in the magical world, where he can relinquish Peter to society's > justice, and concentrate instead on reclaiming his role as godfather, > providing a home for his spiritual son, Harry. This is a very interesting take on this scene and I guess I never thought of it in this light before. It provides a very logical explanation of the difference we see in Sirius' personality between PoA and GoF. There was a discussion (I'm summarizing for the FAQ on Sirius...thats the main reason I remember the discussion) that centered around the fact that Sirius seemed so angry and vengeful in PoA and yet more the caring godfather in GoF. Some felt it was a larger dichotomy than others, but the general conclusion was that his trip to whatever tropical locale helped enormously. However, your discussion of a regaining of faith seems much more substantial. > Indeed--how can faith survive in times like these? > > And conversely, how can one survive without it? > You simply have to embrace it. Walk toward it. Don't stop and don't be > scared, that's very important. Best do it at a bit of a run if you're > nervous. Go on. > > Go now. Ahhh, If we all could be that full of faith...... carole From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Oct 14 22:13:00 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:13:00 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Male/Female Friendships Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3532 I also had a boy as one of my best friends. Good old Jeffrey. We've been friends for over 30 years now. -------------------------------------------------------------- From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 14 23:50:42 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:50:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Half vampires (mostly OT) References: <20001014215148.27001.qmail@web4803.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c03639$9204d580$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3533 That's about right. (AND HOW did I forget my favorite Vampire movie of all time? Sighs) (The guy off the Dodge commercials) Hermann played the lead baddie, and Kiefer's character, David, was just covering up for him. His blood was in the bottle that they drank out of (and did anyone else want that poster of Jim on the wall?), which was the drink that turned Michael into the unturned vampire. Wasn't Winona's character also that way, however in Dracula? Until she took her first sip of blood, she was able to move in the daylight (hampered, though, by a sunlight intolerance). That's the concept from the Brom Stoker book (although it was blown up much more for the movie--I so did like Rider in that role!). If she drank the blood, she would have become the fourth in the three lady trio. Of course also in Lost Boys was the garlic and the holy water thing again! I play Vampire the Masquerade, so my vision is cloudy a bit at times, though--tooo many threads running through! Dee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 14 23:01:07 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 00:01:07 +0100 Subject: Temperance/overweight & a question Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001014230107.008895b0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3534 Catlady said: One of the Theological Virtues (or are they called Prudential Virtues?) is TEMPERANCE. Unlike the anti-alcohol movement, TEMPERANCE doesn't mean asceticism, it means everything in moderation. True, and in that sense temperance would have to be the overriding virtue, controlling any sort of excess. It does mean self-restraint as well, and because of the temperance movement this might well be interpreted as 'don't do anything that might be regarded as a good time'. I work for the alcohol industry, so don't get me started on temperance... Hmmm. Anyway, this is premature. Peg hasn't got to temperance yet ... Amanda said: On a related note, has anyone noticed that overweight characters are often the bad guys, or bumbling idiots? ... I think weight is an often overlooked and thus still very perpetuated stereotype. I agree that the 'fat fool' sterotype is still going strong and it's annoying to see films like "The Flumps" being made for supposed entertainment. I don't agree that being overweight is associated with villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. *** I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before in one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? After pondering, I'd say I'm quite like Neville - a forgetful, clumsy underachiever who has improved with age (if I had a toad, I'd lose it). As for the adults, I'd be a hybrid: twisted, sarcastic and aloof like Snape, but trustworthy, tolerant and prone to mood swings like Lupin. Doesn't sound too hot, does it? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 14 23:41:51 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:41:51 -0000 Subject: [OT] Opposite sex best friends In-Reply-To: <006201c03609$1a497080$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8saqvv+ic7m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3535 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Firebolt" wrote: > > But here's a *real-life* question. How many people here had an > > opposite sex best friend when they were Harry's age (12-14 years) > > that > > was comparable to the Hermione-Harry-Ron friendship? I can speak only > > from my experience, but I don't recall very many boy-girl best > > friends > > when I was in my early teens. Those friendships were common when I > > was > > about 5 or 6 (my best friend at that age was a boy named Mark), but > > they fizzled when the boy and girl began to bond with same sex > > friends. > > Yes! I did and I do! From when I was 7 to when I was 12, 3 of my 4 best > friends were guys, and two of them were schoolmates with whom I made an > absolutely unseperable trio. And now that I look back on it, I believe I was > the good-grades-getter of the group - although we were a lot more > competitive than Harry, Ron, and Hermione. Then, I moved out of the States, > and spend two years friendless, apart from a fair-weather friend who > probably only befriended me because I was the smart girl with good grades > who sat next to her and might help out in class. Then another year at a new > school, changing classes in the middle of the year just when I was beginning > to make friends. Just this school year, I met a bunch of new kids/kids from > other classes and actually have close friends for the first time in several > years outside of summer camp. One of them is a guy, and I actually think I > get along with him the best. > > So although I have fewer guy friends now, I don't quite agree that intersex, > platonic friendships kind of fade away in adolescence. I do agree that > they're a lot likelier to be misinterpreted, though. As in conversations > like 'Hey, are you and Patrick a couple?' 'No!' 'I don't believe you...' > 'nnngh...'. > > Apologies for the rambling, > Firebolt Raises hand & waves it in the air frantically! Yes, I had more male friends than female from about 7th grade (age 12/13) on. My 2 best male friends from jr high & high school were attendants in my wedding. I also had & have close female friendships, but my male best friends have been more consistently a part of my life I would say. I've been friends with them for more than half my life now. I don't think either that it was *that* rare. I know lots of women who had close male friends in that time period & are my generation & earlier. Penny Gotta hand it to you, Penny. You and your boy best friends managed to stay friends. And Firebolt, my friendship with Mark lasted until were were in the 3rd grade when he started hanging around a group of boys who thought it was "uncool" to hang around girls (my problem was I threw baseballs "like a girl" *sigh*). However, I do agree with you that platonic friendships do and can exist in adulthood. One of my best friends now is a man. But you have to admit from what we know of the Hogwarts community, there aren't many opposite sex best friends relationships. The Weasley Twins' best friend is identified as Lee Jordan, not Angelina and/or Katie. Seamus Finnagan's best friend is Dean Thomas (noted in GoF), not Parvati and/or Lavender. Pansy Parkinson might be in the peripheral Malfoy-Crabbe-Goyle gang, but that gang is never identified as M-C-G and Parkinson. Since the books are from Harry's point of view, we see the characters in *that* way. For example, what if the books were written from Neville's point of view. Harry and Ron might be characterized as friendly but snobby in the sense that they don't like hanging around Neville. The Weasley Twins might be portrayed as torturously mischievious . Hermione might be portrayed as friendly, but in an "out of pity" way. Professor Sprout might be portrayed as the best and most supportive teacher at Hogwarts, next to Lupin. Furthermore, I really don't see anything wrong with Harry having more strong male role models than female ones. Recall, Harry's male role model had been Vernon Dursley until he arrived at Hogwarts. Harry, himself, knew Uncle Vernon didn't represent the ideal male. It's only natural that Harry's Hogwarts world is populated with unDursley males, since the Hogwarts world is an alternate reality to the Muggle world. :-) Milz From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 15 01:05:11 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:05:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Temperance/overweight & a question References: <1.5.4.32.20001014230107.008895b0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <000f01c03643$f95e7600$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3536 I don't agree that being overweight is associated with villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. Hmmm. Let's start with the Movie Porky's? Seriously, in Disney: Ursala, from the Little Mermaid is not a beanpole. Neither is Governor Ratcliff (spelled right, I hope?) from Pocahontas (nor Percy, lol). The lead baddie in Candleshoe is also a bit stout, as is his female counter. Queen of hearts, from Alice in Wonderland, and of course, the Sheriff of Nottingham (which animal he is I am not certain, though!). Oliver and Company's Stokes' is not thin. Toy Story2 has Al, and of course, the aunt in James and the Giant Peach . Return of Jafar also had someone find Jafar's lamp who was a bit rotund. Aristocats had Edgar, a bit "love-handled" butler. The Muppet Movie (original) had Doc Hopper (again, the gentleman from Porky's!), and there are probably more in my collection, but I haven't gone through the adult movies, just the Disney section! There are also a few villians who could play for the Chicago Bears, but I didn't classify them in the above category: such as Gaston, Captain Hook (although the Father was the bad guy, sorta), Rattigan from Great Mouse Detective, ... (I think you get the idea...) Sorry Neil! Dee Also, from Batman returns, the penguin? ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Ward To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 6:01 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Temperance/overweight & a question Catlady said: One of the Theological Virtues (or are they called Prudential Virtues?) is TEMPERANCE. Unlike the anti-alcohol movement, TEMPERANCE doesn't mean asceticism, it means everything in moderation. True, and in that sense temperance would have to be the overriding virtue, controlling any sort of excess. It does mean self-restraint as well, and because of the temperance movement this might well be interpreted as 'don't do anything that might be regarded as a good time'. I work for the alcohol industry, so don't get me started on temperance... Hmmm. Anyway, this is premature. Peg hasn't got to temperance yet ... Amanda said: On a related note, has anyone noticed that overweight characters are often the bad guys, or bumbling idiots? ... I think weight is an often overlooked and thus still very perpetuated stereotype. I agree that the 'fat fool' sterotype is still going strong and it's annoying to see films like "The Flumps" being made for supposed entertainment. I don't agree that being overweight is associated with villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. *** I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before in one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? After pondering, I'd say I'm quite like Neville - a forgetful, clumsy underachiever who has improved with age (if I had a toad, I'd lose it). As for the adults, I'd be a hybrid: twisted, sarcastic and aloof like Snape, but trustworthy, tolerant and prone to mood swings like Lupin. Doesn't sound too hot, does it? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sun Oct 15 00:11:36 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 00:11:36 -0000 Subject: Snape/Lily (was: in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8sahvh+1ola@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sasnp+lan9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3537 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > > > I still don't like the Snape/Lily thought. > (snip) > > Or after all this time still mad because Lily dumped him or > > something of the sort. > > I don't like the Snape/Lily thought because it is too conventional > (as Diogo said). > > However, it can be expanded to explain not only why Snape hates > Harry, but why Snape turned against the Death Eaters. The following > expansion is all speculation except what is labelled otherwise. > > I think it is generally assumed that young Severus never made any > time with Lily, except that she may have smiled and been polite to > him because she smiled and was polite to everyone. > > (Altho' the angst would be that much more intense if Severus and Lily > had been happily engaged to be married when Lily broke off their > engagement and married James, who had also broken off a happy > engagement for the purpose, not because they were in love, but > because they knew from prophecy or genetic analysis that they were > THE two people who could make a baby that would grow up to defeat > Voldemort. THAT would be ASTONISHING, all right!) > > Instead, the idea is that Severus already hated James for having > everything that Severus wanted and didn't have (popularity, Quidditch > stardom, the best grades in their year, Head Boy, loving parents, > praise from Dumbledore, etc) (and hated James' friends for being > friends with James), and the Whomping Willow prank was just the icing > on the cake, > > And then, on top of all else, James also got the one thing that > Severus had come to want the most of anything in his life: Lily. > > Snape didn't expect Lily to leave James and come to him, but still he > didn't want Lily to be killed, so when he learned of Voldemort's plan > to kill the Potter family because of some prophecy that a Potter man > would be his downfall, Snape demanded that Voldemort spare her. > > Snape was a sufficiently valuable servant that V humored him by > promising not to kill Lily if she didn't get in the way: "instead > I'll give her to you to do with as you will". That is why Lily was > the *only* one of V's victims who was offered the chance not to die. > > But Snape knew that Lily would never accept her life at the price of > her baby's life, so his next attempt to save her was that he warned > Our Side of Their Side's plot against the Potters. Remember, a spy > among the Dark Siders was how the Potters knew to go into hiding, and > protect their hiding place with the Fidelius Charm. > > Despite all, V found and killed the Potters. S, now craving nothing > but vengeance for Lily, walked out on V and over to D, who completely > trusts S because D knows how implacably S holds grudges. Therefore, V > knows that S has left him forever and S can no longer act as a double > agent. > > The grudges that S holds include not only old schoolboy grudges, but > also an additional grudge against James and a personal (rather than > inherited) grudge against Harry, because it was Their Fault that Lily > died, and an additional grudge against Sirius, because he believed it > was Sirius who had betrayed Lily to her death. It has been pointed > out that he shows signs of hating Sirius much more than he hates > James' other friend, Remus. > > Unfortunately, it has also been pointed out that it is difficult to > reconcile the ideas that S thinks Sirius was the traitor, that S > didn't walk out until after L was killed, and V's Death Eaters (both > S and Peter were marked) knew each other: surely S would have seen > Peter and not Sirius at DE meetings. Interesting! I think Snape's hatred for James is multi-faceted. Part of it is due to James' Quidditch skills. Part of it is due to James' arrogance (as seen by Snape). Part of it could be due to the fact that James was Head Boy. Part of it could be due to Lily. I'm not saying that Snape is completely blameless, the Snape-Whomping Willow incident is evidence to the contrary. My personal idea about a Lily-Snape thing is that Snape was infatuated with Lily but was too shy to talk to her. The times he did manage to speak to her she was probably more interested in James because he was good at Quidditch, because he was smart, etc. So Snape felt he was rejected because if James wasn't around Lily would be attracted to him. Or maybe Snape did muster up enough courage to tell Lily his feelings and she dealt him that universal heart-breaking line "I like you too, but not in that way." I also get the feeling that Snape partially blames the Marauders for his involvement with Voldemort. Snape probably joined the Dark Side to "get back at" the Marauders and to show them he wasn't as big a loser as they thoguht he was. We won't know what caused Snape to return to Our Side yet, but whatever it was it made him "wake up and smell the coffee"! In a way, I think Snape deep down dosn't hate Harry as much as Harry thinks. I think that Snape was impressed that Harry defeated Quirrell and Tom Riddle and respects him for that. I do think that Snape sees bits of his and James' bad habits in Harry, such as arrogance and a disregard for rules. Maybe Snape realizes that these two characteristics are the cornerstones for a future downfall? Didn't he say that James was too arrogant to believe Sirius could not be trusted? Didn't Snape, himself, sneak out of the castle and break the rules by going to the Whomping Willow as a student? Snape might have genuinely good intentions for, but he lacks good interpersonal communication skills (or subscribes to the "tough love" method of discipline). ;-) Milz From summers.65 at osu.edu Sun Oct 15 01:43:38 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:43:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny [Was: Re: Hermione and JKR] Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3538 >> Hmph! Well, she's not shy in *my* fic, and she grows up to work with >> dragons (like Charlie.) Oh dear, gave that away. Never mind. But I >> agree with your essential point; I'm also bored with stories where >> she's a shy blushing thing. All the Weasleys are strong-willed; it >> makes sense that she would be, too. (And I think she was a magazine >> editor in Lori's story...) > >Oops. Sorry, I read that part of PoU a looong time ago, and haven't read any >of Draco Sinister...but I was under the distinct impression that the >magazine had something to do with fashion. Am I right? > >~Firebolt > No, it's more like W or Ms. Some girlie bits, but mostly more thoughtful. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "Animal Dreams" by Barbara Kingsolver *************************************************** From kathleen at carr.org Sun Oct 15 01:38:45 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:38:45 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] [OT] No, Harry, *I* am your father... Message-ID: <200010150140.e9F1e1U28443@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3539 >It >says in CoS, Chapter 3, that Ginny has brown eyes. Of course, this would >mean that the Potters somehow managed to keep her a secret from everyone >except close friends up until their deaths, because otherwise the entire >wizard community would be wondering what happened to the Potters' other >child, and *someone* would have been bound to mention it to Harry...maybe >James and Lily went into hiding in the earliest stages of Lily's second >pregnancy, when no one knew yet, and Ginny was just a few months old when >Voldemort attacked, and... > >No, I don't believe this in the slightest, I'm just kidding around ^_~. > >~Firebolt > I don't have my copy of CoS handy, but I am almost sure it says Ginny has green eyes (the scene where Harry and Ron are walking up the stairs at the Burrow and see her peeking out of the doorway, right?) Of course, I could totally be wrong and be shooting my mouth off...or someone else probably confirmed this in one of the 400 messages I still haven't read...but, like I said, expect strange things from me tonight... Kathy From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 15 01:46:21 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:46:21 -0000 Subject: Snape/Lily (was: in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8sasnp+lan9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sb29d+b4tr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3540 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > I think Snape's hatred for James is multi-faceted. (snip) Part of > it is due to James' arrogance (as seen by Snape). James' arrogance as seen by Severus is (my opinion!) simply that James doesn't want to be buddy-buddy with Severus (who may have approached him, as ineptly as Draco seeking Harry's friendship in their second meeting, and been rebuffed) and that James didn't turn down all the honors that came his way of which Severus was jealous. Since Severus was (my opinion!) quite an arrogant child himself, proud of how much he knew academically (such as curses), believing himself ENTITLED to get the best grades in their year, not just be ONE of the FIVE top students, and that the Slytherin Housemaster and/or Potions Master wouldn't have been the only teacher(s) to praise him, if only James hadn't stolen his top grades. > I also get the feeling that Snape partially blames the Marauders > for his involvement with Voldemort. Snape probably joined the Dark > Side to "get back at" the Marauders and to show them he wasn't as > big a loser as they thought he was. I believe that Severus joined the Death Eaters by accident (of course, I'm a real softie, anti-war bleeding heart liberal type, and I don't want to get too cozy-cozy with someone who joined the Death Eaters for profit or in order to enjoying torturing people). One kind of 'accident' would be if he were simply following a purely intellectual interest in Dark Arts, reading the restricted books, seeking out forbidden equipment, happy to have some rich patron with a big library (such as Lucius Malfoy) provide him with access to very rare books and a lab in which to experiment with some of the spells that aren't clear in the writing, happy to discuss his interesting discoveries with people who liked to listen, and not quite noticing when his experiments (influenced by subtle suggestions from his mentor) gradually edged from unattractive, to illegal, to very highly illegal AND useful to Lord Voldemort -- at which point, V approached him with thanks for his helpfulness and a 'grateful' offer of initiation into the Death Eater circle with all benefits, such as not telling Department of Magical Law Enforcement about him. And maybe at the time he was a whole lot high on the praise and company of his friends and a little bit high on the drama, and perhaps the luxury, of the Death Eater meeting, and didn't even begin to realise what he had done until he woke up the next morning (or afternoon) with a hangover and the Dark Mark on his arm. But I prefer that 'accident' that he was led astray by bad companions. I wrote this theory at length in post # 2014. To summaririze, Sirius told us that Severus used to hang out with a group of Slytherins who all became Death Eaters: Wilkes, Rozier, Avery, and the Lestranges. Someone in that clique became a Death Eater and recruited the rest of the clique. I have Rozier and Wilkes being Crabbe and Goyle types who joined the Death Eaters in order to enjoy their hobby of drunken assault, rape, and murder without getting caught by DMLE, or perhaps Avery joined the DE to get an extra income or a raise and promotion at his job. > We won't know what caused Snape to return to Our Side yet, but > whatever it was it made him "wake up and smell the coffee"! I've suggested that it might have been his first murder. That he found it disgusting at the time and had nightmares about it ever afte, making him so disgusted at himself for participating that he turned himself in to Dumbledore, but still to this day he psychologically beats up on himself about it. (Of course, as I said above, I'm a real softie, anti-war bleeding heart liberal type, who makes a Much Bigger Deal over killing people than do combat soldiers -- I suppose if anyone reading this list did kill enemy soldiers in combat in Vietnam, Korea, WWII, the stuff I've been writing is not well designed to lure him (probably not her) into discussing killing to the rest of us.) > Snape might have genuinely good intentions, but he lacks good > interpersonal communication skills What an excellent understatement! From summers.65 at osu.edu Sun Oct 15 02:49:20 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:49:20 -0500 Subject: Baby Harry? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3541 New topic! So on Halloween when Voldemort bites the dust, is that 1980 or 1981? I think it's 1981. So Harry would have been fifteen months old exactly. That's hardly a baby. A fifteen month old is walking, and talking some, and making a general nuisance of himself. It's getting on into toddlerhood. Seems like an inconsistency. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "The Professor and the Madman" by Simon Winchester "24 Hours" by Greg Iles *************************************************** From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 01:49:37 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:49:37 -0000 Subject: female characters - very long and very opinionated In-Reply-To: <39E89C2C.7BB10E56@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8sb2fh+ei9g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3542 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Schlobin at a... wrote: > > > I fear that I will be shot for this post, but here goes anyway. > > > > > But I must suggest that JKR is male-identified. That is, she sees Hermione > > (and probably herself) as the exception. Hermione is not like the other > > girls. She doesn't giggle, run in packs, or do a lot of the other > > traditionally girl behavior that JKR doesn't particularly like. She's > > brilliant, hard working, and takes things seriously. She is NOT just the girl > > who helps the boy slay the dragon (as someone suggests). Who helped > > save Sirius Black? She's adventurous; she's inventive. But she is the > > EXCEPTION. > > Just as many strong, intelligent women, she survives/flourishes by hanging > > out with men and bonding with men. She demonstrates that she can be feminine > > and attract men by attracting > > a GoF champion, and looking beautiful at the Yule Ball. She can do it all if > > she wants, but she has nothing in common with the vast majority of > > women/girls. > > You have some points, but I honestly don't know what you mean by > "male-identified." > She is exceptional, yes. And she is friends with boys, yes. But as > someone > (Neil?) pointed out; she is probably friends with girls, too, but we > just don't see > that as much because the story is told from Harry's P-O-V. Anyway, I > honestly > don't understand why you think her exceptional-ness and her friendships > with men > makes her less female--but perhaps I am just missing what you mean by > the term? Well, I disagree. If she were friends with girls at Hogwarts, we'd know. Her friendships with men and her exceptionalness do not make her less female. You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Most women who are male-identified (and I have problems with it with adults) will tell you that they are NOT like OTHER women, that all their friends are men, and that they wouldn't work for a female boss, and that they have much more in common with men. This stance stems from the idea that men are better, and that women are lesser. > > What is it about being an exceptional student that makes her less > female? What is > about reading books and knowing what's in them that rearranges or > negates > Hermione's internal plumbing? Nothing. Reading books is neither inherently masculine nor feminine. Please understand, I'm not trying to make > this come > across as a flame; I'm just honestly baffled by your reasoning. > > This whole thread reminds me of Joanna Russ' book _How to suppress > Women's > Writing._ I don't mean you're trying to suppress JKR's writing; what I > mean is > that, you see a cool-headed, smart woman, and your reaction is, "she's > doesn't come > across as female." It's like having the idea that you're praising a > woman novelist > by saying "she writes like a man." Why? Ah, but you do get what I'm saying. I would never say that a cool- headed smart woman "doesn't come across as female" I would NEVER say that a woman "writes like a man!" because I don't agree that there is identifiable male and female writing. (And those who did got their comeuppance with James Tiptree. Do you have any doubts that > Hermione > thinks she is a girl? I don't in the least. Nope. Is being cool-headed, > non-giggly, > and competent inconsistent with feminity? I just don't think it is. > > > Just as many strong, intelligent women, she survives/flourishes by hanging > > out with men and bonding with men. > > No, no, no, no, no. She survives/flourishes by being a good student and > a decent, kind-hearted, conscientious human being. She would continue > to be the same person if she hung with Lavendar or Parvil instead. She would continue to be decent, and kind-hearted but IF we accept JKR's portrayal of Lavendar or Parvil as giggly, then she'd be bored stiff. She hangs out with Harry because they are fun and she has adventures with them. > > I remember the story about a mother who reported being furious at her > son's > basketball coach, who jeered from the sidelines at a practice session, > "You're > shooting like a girl." And she was so proud when her son, who had been > watching > the women's basketball lately, and just lit up like a firefly and said, > "You mean > I'm shooting like Sheryl Swopes? Hey, thanks!" > Great anecdote. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 15 01:57:40 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Roger) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] [OT] No, (Luke)Harry, *I* am your father... Message-ID: <20001015015740.14701.qmail@web2105.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3543 Sat watching StarWars today, and for some reason, I kept paralleling it with HP the whole way through. The parallels? (This is ONLY about SW, not ESB or ROTJ) Three main characters: Han, Luke, and Leia. Harry, Ron, and Hermione Luke is a "country bumpkin" type who doesn't know the ways of space very well. (See Harry in the Wizard world) Hans, well just because he's always fighting with Leia throughout the movie. Leia and Hermione mainly due to the strength in the their characters, both aren't afraid to do what needs to be done. Also, the weird hairstyles of each. One main baddie: Voldemort and (again, in this movie) Darth Vader Both are in the shadows...masked for now. Both have a connection to the leader male (Luke and Harry) that we don't know about as the books open. Hmm. Should I throw in a comment about Luke and Harry and flying? Or about Harry and his father, and Luke taking after his "father" as he knows him? At the end, both Luke and Harry are the ones to save the day. I can see the parallel of course between Vernon and Owen. Also between AD and Ben (like there's not enough posts in the CASTING FAQs about that?) I prolly could go on... :) Dee ===== :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sun Oct 15 01:59:38 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:59:38 -0000 Subject: Snape/Lily (was: in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8sb29d+b4tr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sb32a+p26p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3544 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > to > > I've suggested that it might have been his first murder. That he > found it disgusting at the time and had nightmares about it ever > afte, making him so disgusted at himself for participating that he > turned himself in to Dumbledore, but still to this day he > psychologically beats up on himself about it. \ But would Dumbledore hire a teacher who had been guilty of murder? (And I must say there is such a big difference between murder and what our men and women in combat do!!! Just my personal opinion). Martha From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Sun Oct 15 02:05:24 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:05:24 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Baby Harry? Message-ID: <10.383c85a.271a6ae4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3545 it was 1981... JK says that Harry was small so maybe was just a late bloomer, but he bloomed quite nicely thanks to you. You made him YUMMY. I LOVE all your stories and I have everyone at work hooked. Thanks!! Coleen From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 02:12:12 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:12:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape/Lily (was: in love (and Imperio curse) References: <8sahvh+1ola@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E9127C.E875C935@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3546 Rita Winston wrote: > Instead, the idea is that Severus already hated James for having > everything that Severus wanted and didn't have (popularity, Quidditch > stardom, the best grades in their year, Head Boy, loving parents, > praise from Dumbledore, etc) (and hated James' friends for being > friends with James), and the Whomping Willow prank was just the icing > on the cake, > > And then, on top of all else, James also got the one thing that > Severus had come to want the most of anything in his life: Lily. This is pretty much the scenario I had in mind; that the Lily situation, because of Snape's already hating James, was sort of the "icing on the cake" thing that cemented that hatred and made it last so many, many years. > Snape didn't expect Lily to leave James and come to him, but still he > didn't want Lily to be killed, so when he learned of Voldemort's plan > to kill the Potter family because of some prophecy that a Potter man > would be his downfall, Snape demanded that Voldemort spare her. > > Snape was a sufficiently valuable servant that V humored him by > promising not to kill Lily if she didn't get in the way: "instead > I'll give her to you to do with as you will". That is why Lily was > the *only* one of V's victims who was offered the chance not to die. Next to Voldemort just being a b****** in general and toying with a victim, this is the best explanation for that offer I've heard. > But Snape knew that Lily would never accept her life at the price of > her baby's life, so his next attempt to save her was that he warned > Our Side of Their Side's plot against the Potters. Remember, a spy > among the Dark Siders was how the Potters knew to go into hiding, and > protect their hiding place with the Fidelius Charm. > > Despite all, V found and killed the Potters. S, now craving nothing > but vengeance for Lily, walked out on V and over to D, who completely > trusts S because D knows how implacably S holds grudges. Therefore, V > knows that S has left him forever and S can no longer act as a double > agent. I had postulated something similar, that even if she'd chosen James over him, Snape didn't want her dead. But didn't Dumbledore say that Snape had been a spy for the good side for some time, even before the fall of Voldemort? It can't have been Lily's death that caused him to be a spy. And after Voldemort's fall, pretty much all the former Death Eaters who could, went back to their former lives. I agree, though, that it is a knowledge of Snape's inner workings and personal loyalties that cause both Dumbledore and Voldemort to be certain that Snape will not change sides again. --Amanda > The grudges that S holds include not only old schoolboy grudges, but > also an additional grudge against James and a personal (rather than > inherited) grudge against Harry, because it was Their Fault that Lily > died, ooo, good point. The implication is strong, isn't it, that it was Harry that Voldemort wanted. If he hadn't been born, Lily would still be alive. What a great additional reason to hate Harry. > and an additional grudge against Sirius, because he believed it > was Sirius who had betrayed Lily to her death. It has been pointed > out that he shows signs of hating Sirius much more than he hates > James' other friend, Remus. True. All good observations. But again, Sirius is the one who seemed the most callous in the werewolf-joke thing, too, When Lupin couldn't help it and James pulled Snape back, presumably Sirius still thought it was a grand joke. > Unfortunately, it has also been pointed out that it is difficult to > reconcile the ideas that S thinks Sirius was the traitor, that S > didn't walk out until after L was killed, and V's Death Eaters (both > S and Peter were marked) knew each other: surely S would have seen > Peter and not Sirius at DE meetings. For this to be a problem, we must assume great big state of the union meetings with no hoods. I think it probably was what has been called a cell system (or units, like Mary Kay cosmetics does), where you'll know everyone in your unit and work with them and try to beat the other units, etc., but you won't necessarily know everyone in other units. Voldemort was probably aware that it was advantageous to his purposes to keep Snape unaware that Pettigrew was the leak, if he suspected Snape at all of being an agent. And I somehow think that Voldemort's the suspicious type. Thanks for stating this so clearly! It tallies pretty closely with the scenario I'd had in mind. --Amanda From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sun Oct 15 02:20:08 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:20:08 -0000 Subject: Totally OT: COLE book of condolences In-Reply-To: <8s7bbb+n77f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sb48o+j0n2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3547 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brooks R" wrote: > Andrew Toppan of www.hazegray.org has established an on-line Book of > condolences, with messages of sympathy and support to be forwarded > to shipmates and relatives when practical to do so. It can be found > linked from here: > > http://www.hazegray.org/features/cole/ > > Andrew says: > > "We wish to express our profound sympathy to the families and friends > of the men and women killed and injured aboard USS Cole. > > At times like these we must all reflect on the sacrifices made by the > sailors who voluntarily go "In Harm's Way" to defend freedom and > pursue peace. They willingly face these dangers every day - even in > seemingly "safe" places, as so terribly demonstrated by this attack. > > Please take a moment to reflect on these sacifices as you go about > your business today - while the crew and family of Cole struggle to > deal with their terrible loss and the aftermath of the attack. > > You may also leave a message in our Book of Condolences for USS Cole. > These messages will be forwarded to Cole when we are able to do so. " > > -Brooks Thank you, Brooks, for this site. I most certainly did send my condolences. Martha From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 02:21:02 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:21:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Temperance/overweight & a question References: <1.5.4.32.20001014230107.008895b0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <000f01c03643$f95e7600$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39E9148E.600D2619@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3548 Denise Rogers wrote: > I don't agree that being overweight is associated with > villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. > Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. Not villains, necessarily, but generally buffoons at the best. Or both, like the bad guy in Jurassic Park. A villain per se must be taken seriously, and part of the whole overweight thing is they're not quite real people who can be truly respected or truly feared. --Amanda, whose daughter is a superb example of that last bit From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 02:26:53 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:26:53 -0000 Subject: Voldemort as History In-Reply-To: <39E32188.5BE3BD0C@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sb4ld+tvjq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3549 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > I won't insult anyone's knowledge by posting a history of the Mac > > computer here. > > Actually, tying into another thread, this falls into the "history so recent > that everyone is assumed to know it" category for me. I didn't start paying > attention to personal computers until I could afford one (which wasn't that > long ago...), and didn't opt for a Mac anyway. But they were started by Bill > Gates in his garage, right? Oh, it was Steve Jobs and Wozniak (can't remember his first name) who worked in their basement. Anyway, the personal desktop computer was the idea of 60s radicals who wanted to take the power of computing away from the Pentagon and give it to the people. Very counter- cultural and anti-bureaucratic. Susan From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 02:26:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:26:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Baby Harry? References: Message-ID: <39E915DD.A3164661@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3550 summers.65 at osu.edu wrote: > So on Halloween when Voldemort bites the dust, is that 1980 or 1981? I > think it's 1981. So Harry would have been fifteen months old exactly. > > That's hardly a baby. A fifteen month old is walking, and talking some, > and making a general nuisance of himself. It's getting on into > toddlerhood. But still very much a baby. Just barely starting to talk, saying ma-ma and pzzz and dn ("please" and "down"), maybe walking for a long time now but maybe not, definitely still diapers, not even really sticking hands through T-shirt arms yet, puttiing awful things in mouth, etc. My youngest is just precisely fifteen months old, and is definitely still a baby. He'll be a toddler, doing toddler things, in another four to six months. --Amanda From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 02:37:47 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:37:47 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' and Snape at DE meetings Message-ID: <8sb59r+4usu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3551 I am not attempting to speak for Susan, but my interpretation of 'male-identification' regards JKR, not Hermione. (I'm not touching on Hermione as JKR surrogate.) To me, JKR being male- identified in the HP books relates to, ~for the most part~, females being the sideline supporters while the men are -doing-. More often than not, the females are the helpers, the assistants, etc.-- background. Of course, this doesn't apply in *every* situation; and yes, Harry is the star of the show. Aside from Herm though, the males are the dynamic characters, the interesting characters. By no means do I want the books to be overwhelmingly female, just a little more balanced would be good. About Snape-- I'd always imagined that while he was spying for Vold, he was teaching at HW at the time. If not, what was he spying on? Moody/Crouch went the whole year before Dumble caught on, and Snape would have been 'playing' himself, easier to trick Dumble. So, if Snape was fulfilling his spy duties at HW, perhaps he was just contacted by Vold, or contacted Vold himself when necessary. I never pictured lots of big staff meetings. There are many ways Vold could get in touch w/ Snape when he needed to, so maybe Snape never attended any group meetings when Pettigrew was present... Just some thoughts, Kelley From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 02:37:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:37:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: female characters - very long and very opinionated References: <8sb2fh+ei9g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E91852.FDF44E80@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3552 Susan McGee wrote: > Well, I disagree. If she were friends with girls at Hogwarts, we'd > know. It might well be that she'd like having more female friends, but at that age girls often do not like the overachiever or the odd one out. Females tend to like to congregate, to build cooperation and mutuality, and at that coming-of-age age, often the unlike ones are shunned. > Her friendships with men and her exceptionalness do not make > her less female. Small point. Her friendships are with boys. She's well on her way to being great friends with Molly Weasley, and does "girl things" with her and Ginny at the Weasley's house. She doesn't seem to gravitate excessively to the boys or to Arthur, either. > You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Most women > who are male-identified (and I have problems with it with adults) > will tell you that they are NOT like OTHER women, check. > that all their friends are men, or women who similarly say they're not like other women. > and that they wouldn't work for a female boss, no problem with that, though. > and that they have much more in common with men. check. > This stance stems from the idea that men are better, and that women are > lesser. Nope, in my case it stems from the fact that I was the youngest of four, and the rest were all boys. I simply know how to speak "male" very well, and grew up with male viewpoints all around, and had no real close female neighbors or friends my age until high school. Men aren't better, women aren't lesser, but they are wired differently and I'm generally on more familiar ground with the former. But then again, I'm good at spatial reasoning, too.... > Ah, but you do get what I'm saying. I would never say that a cool- > headed smart woman "doesn't come across as female" I would NEVER say > that a woman "writes like a man!" because I don't agree that there is > identifiable male and female writing. No, but I think that whomever writes them, there are identifiable themes that are preferable to males or females. Don't get me started on "Bram Stoker's Dracula." > She would continue to be decent, and kind-hearted but IF we accept > JKR's portrayal of Lavendar or Parvil as giggly, then she'd be bored > stiff. She hangs out with Harry because they are fun and she has > adventures with them. But she seemed to love hanging with the female Weasleys and getting giggly with them, too...I don't think gender has been that much of a concern to any of the main characters thus far. Up until the age they're now at, it's more on the level of it determines which bathroom you use. They are only now coming to terms with themselves as potential men and potential women, rather than just people. Any of this resonate with anyone? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 02:40:08 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:40:08 -0500 Subject: OT-computer history References: <8sb4ld+tvjq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E91908.84DFE4E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3553 Susan McGee wrote: > Oh, it was Steve Jobs and Wozniak (can't remember his first name) who > worked in their basement. Anyway, the personal desktop computer was > the idea of 60s radicals who wanted to take the power of computing > away from the Pentagon and give it to the people. Very counter- > cultural and anti-bureaucratic. Shot that foot clean off, didn't they? --Amanda From kathleen at carr.org Sun Oct 15 02:43:51 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:43:51 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading; somewhat OT Message-ID: <200010150245.e9F2j7U06091@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3554 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Try the tremendous and often-overlooked trilogy by Guy Gavriel Kay....the >titles I remember are "The Summer Tree," "The Darkest Road" (or something), >and the other escapes me. But they're the type of dense fantasy that totally >involves you and when you finish the book, you can't believe it's not >thicker, so much was in there. Summer Tree is book 1, I believe. > >--Amanda Just wanted to second this recommendation. These books are absolutely absorbing. And just for the record, the series goes: 1. The Summer Tree 2. The Wandering Fire 3. The Darkest Road Kathy From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 02:48:46 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:48:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 'male-identification' and Snape at DE meetings References: <8sb59r+4usu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E91B0E.3510ECCB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3555 Kelley wrote: > I am not attempting to speak for Susan, but my interpretation > of 'male-identification' regards JKR, not Hermione. (I'm not > touching on Hermione as JKR surrogate.) To me, JKR being male- > identified in the HP books relates to, ~for the most part~, females > being the sideline supporters while the men are -doing-. More often > than not, the females are the helpers, the assistants, etc.-- > background. I have found this interesting, this idea that "support" includes the concept of sideline. A quarterback is a dynamic "doer." Cheerleaders are sideline support, nice but expendable. But running backs, tackles, etc., are support, too--and there can be no game without them. Support can and often does includes a hell of a lot of doing. So does effectively assisting. I think there's quite a few really strong female roles, and the wizarding world is apparently incredibly open for females who want to achieve. The actual action of the books focuses on Harry, but even if we get no windows onto it, there's a lot implied about the strength and ability of the female "supporting" characters. --Amanda From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sun Oct 15 02:52:00 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:52:00 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' and Snape at DE meetings In-Reply-To: <8sb59r+4usu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sb64g+udct@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3556 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > > About Snape-- I'd always imagined that while he was spying for Vold, > he was teaching at HW at the time. If not, what was he spying on? > Moody/Crouch went the whole year before Dumble caught on, and Snape > would have been 'playing' himself, easier to trick Dumble. So, if > Snape was fulfilling his spy duties at HW, perhaps he was just > contacted by Vold, or contacted Vold himself when necessary. I never > pictured lots of big staff meetings. There are many ways Vold could > get in touch w/ Snape when he needed to, so maybe Snape never > attended any group meetings when Pettigrew was present... > > Just some thoughts, > > Kelley I always pictured Snape leaving Hogwarts, getting into trouble (if he was truly a Death Eater), having Dumbledore come to his aid in some way, turning spy, and then being offered the Hogwarts job by Dumbledore. In GoF Dumbledore does say Snape is there at his invitation. I have often wondered how long he has been there. Martha From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 03:17:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:17:44 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' and Snape at DE meetings In-Reply-To: <8sb59r+4usu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sb7ko+89up@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3557 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > I am not attempting to speak for Susan, but my interpretation > of 'male-identification' regards JKR, not Hermione. (I'm not > touching on Hermione as JKR surrogate.) To me, JKR being male- > identified in the HP books relates to, ~for the most part~, females > being the sideline supporters while the men are -doing-. More often > than not, the females are the helpers, the assistants, etc.-- > background. Of course, this doesn't apply in *every* situation; and > yes, Harry is the star of the show. Aside from Herm though, the > males are the dynamic characters, the interesting characters. By no > means do I want the books to be overwhelmingly female, just a little > more balanced would be good. > Actually, you did a better job speaking for me than I did for myself..I'm a little bit intimidated by Peg because she is so brilliant. Thanks..... And yes, I'd like a little more balance, but if we don't get it, we'll still be fanatics (original derivation of fans) From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 03:23:14 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:23:14 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' and Snape at DE meetings In-Reply-To: <39E91B0E.3510ECCB@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sb7v2+8bpo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3558 > > I have found this interesting, this idea that "support" includes the concept of sideline. A quarterback is a dynamic "doer." Cheerleaders are sideline support, nice but expendable. But running backs, tackles, etc., are support, too--and there can be no game without them. Support can and often does includes a hell of a lot of doing. So does effectively assisting. > > I think there's quite a few really strong female roles, and the wizarding world is apparently incredibly open for females who want to achieve. The actual action of the books focuses on Harry, but even if we get no windows onto it, there's a lot implied about the strength and ability of the female > "supporting" characters. > > --Amanda Agreed that there is a lot implied AND stated about the strength and ability of the female "supporting" characters. But it's a 20th century concept (hee, hee) that women are better at, more inclined to, and relegated to the "supporting" role...I know many very charismatic, public, strong women whose male partners are in the "supporting" role. Nothing bad about the supporting role, it's just a problem assigning it to one gender. Nothing wrong about having male stars; there should be some female ones, too. From kathleen at carr.org Sun Oct 15 03:26:06 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:26:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny Message-ID: <200010150327.e9F3RPU10786@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3559 >It's been bugging me recently the way Ginny gets portrayed in fanfiction - >Hermione's becoming too feisty, Ginny is becoming a shy, blushing little >thing. I'm rereading CoS at the moment, and in Chapter Three (the Burrow), >Ron clearly says that Ginny 'never shuts up normally', and from what we see >of her in PS and also after CoS, she definitely has a personality Okay, this is gonna sound weird, but since I am a children's librarian who spends a lot of time deaing with preschoolers, and, of course, EVERYTHING in my life must relate to Harry Potter in some way, here goes: I was thinking the other day that D.W. from the "Arthur" series on PBS (D.W. is Arthur's little sister) reminds me a lot of Ginny. I can just see her interacting with her brothers that way. Okay, and here's where it gets weirder. I was listening to "Songs from Bear in the Big Blue House" (I know, I know, I actually bought a copy of the CD for myself, but the show and the music are both really good so I refuse to be embarrassed!) and I think Pip and Pop (the purple otters, in case anyone has a clue to what I am talking about!) would make a perfect Fred and George. So THEN, I thought: what if we could cast HP with Muppets? here's what I came up with: Harry: Kermit (of course, he's Everyfrog) Hermione: Prairie Dawn from Sesame Street (can't you just see Prairie starting S.P.E.W.?) Percy: Sam the American Eagle from the Muppet Show (OK so he ain't British--he's got the right personality anyway) Parvati: Miss Piggy Colin Creevey: Elmo ("Can Elmo take Harry Potter's picture?") That's as far as I got. Can anybody think of a good Muppet-Ron? Kathy P.S. I warned you it would get weirder... From kathleen at carr.org Sun Oct 15 03:26:19 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:26:19 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets Message-ID: <200010150327.e9F3RYU10811@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3560 >It's been bugging me recently the way Ginny gets portrayed in fanfiction - >Hermione's becoming too feisty, Ginny is becoming a shy, blushing little >thing. I'm rereading CoS at the moment, and in Chapter Three (the Burrow), >Ron clearly says that Ginny 'never shuts up normally', and from what we see >of her in PS and also after CoS, she definitely has a personality Okay, this is gonna sound weird, but since I am a children's librarian who spends a lot of time deaing with preschoolers, and, of course, EVERYTHING in my life must relate to Harry Potter in some way, here goes: I was thinking the other day that D.W. from the "Arthur" series on PBS (D.W. is Arthur's little sister) reminds me a lot of Ginny. I can just see her interacting with her brothers that way. Okay, and here's where it gets weirder. I was listening to "Songs from Bear in the Big Blue House" (I know, I know, I actually bought a copy of the CD for myself, but the show and the music are both really good so I refuse to be embarrassed!) and I think Pip and Pop (the purple otters, in case anyone has a clue to what I am talking about!) would make a perfect Fred and George. So THEN, I thought: what if we could cast HP with Muppets? here's what I came up with: Harry: Kermit (of course, he's Everyfrog) Hermione: Prairie Dawn from Sesame Street (can't you just see Prairie starting S.P.E.W.?) Percy: Sam the American Eagle from the Muppet Show (OK so he ain't British--he's got the right personality anyway) Parvati: Miss Piggy Colin Creevey: Elmo ("Can Elmo take Harry Potter's picture?") That's as far as I got. Can anybody think of a good Muppet-Ron? Kathy P.S. I warned you it would get weirder... From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 03:41:15 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:41:15 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha In-Reply-To: <8sb64g+udct@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sb90r+qu47@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3561 Amanda wrote: > I have found this interesting, this idea that "support" includes the concept> of sideline. A quarterback is a dynamic "doer." Cheerleaders are sideline> support, nice but expendable. But running backs, tackles, etc., are support,> too--and there can be no game without them. Support can and often does> includes a hell of a lot of doing. So does effectively assisting. Well, maybe more second-string than sideline. I certainly don't see Herm as a cheerleader on the sides, but really, of all the female characters, she's the only real 'doer'. McG is important 'in theory', but she doesn't get much to do. Lily may have an important role regarding present action, but she's not going to get to do anything, either. To me, the other female characters are 'sideline'. The parts they play don't have to be big and flashy, but at least let them have some importance or significance. I want to see ~why~ McG is second-in-command, I want to see her *shine*. Let her show her stuff, you know? > I think there's quite a few really strong female roles, and the wizarding> world is apparently incredibly open for females who want to achieve. The> actual action of the books focuses on Harry, but even if we get no windows> onto it, there's a lot implied about the strength and ability of the female> "supporting" characters. > > --Amanda I know this probably won't come out right, but I'm going to try anyway. The females in the story ~have~ strong characters, but they ~aren't~ very strong characters (aside from Herm). There's no meat to their roles. Someone mentioned something to the effect that McG has the important title, she's house head, she's one of the only registered animagi, teaches transfig.; but it's all icing, no cake. Instead of just a title and a here and there character, let's see her other dimensions. Same for the other fem. teachers, Molly, Ginny, Cho, the Quid girls, etc. Even though this is Harry's POV, it's still JKR's world. She can give these characters a new side for Harry to see, more strength to their roles, etc. Of course, their assistance is vital to Harry, he couldn't do it w/o them; but I still think their importance can be strengthened w/o taking away from Harry or the plot. ---------------------- Martha wrote: --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > I always pictured Snape leaving Hogwarts, getting into trouble (if he > was truly a Death Eater), having Dumbledore come to his aid in some> way, turning spy, and then being offered the Hogwarts job by > Dumbledore. In GoF Dumbledore does say Snape is there at his > invitation. I have often wondered how long he has been there. > > Martha So, you think he was a DE before he was a teacher? I see. This is a scenario I hadn't thought of, and it makes a lot of sense. You're right about the 'invitation' part. I'd forgotten that. Very interesting. Now I'm even more eager to know what happened... Kelley From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 03:49:27 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:49:27 -0000 Subject: Female characters - very long and very opinionated In-Reply-To: <39E8685D.62D01B9D@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sb9g7+u3fs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3562 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi --- > > I was reading my 30 new emails this morning and thinking hard about how > I wanted to respond to Susan's original post about the female > characters. Gosh darn it all if Neil hasn't made all my points for me! > Thanks Neil! :--) > > Neil Ward wrote: > > > a) As Steve Bates said, the books are written with Harry as the focal > > point. I think this explains why female bonding features and female > > bonding is absent. > > That was going to be my biggest point. We are limited by what Harry > hears & observes. He's not going to necessarily overhear McGonagall > mentoring Hermione in her office. He wouldn't necessarily overhear a > Staff meeting in which McGonagall shines. He's not going to overhear > Hermione and Ginny having a late-night serious conversation. We've > never seen Hermione's dorm room (and so most of us aren't entirely sure > that there are just 3 females there -- Hermione, Parvarti & Lavender). > Like Neil said later, you've got to read between the lines because of > the male POV. > > So, remember that Hermione later tells Harry that McGonagall had to go > to alot of trouble to get the time turner for her. I think this > indicates that there has been a mentoring relationship going on between > the two of them -- we just aren't privy to it. > > McGonagall is Deputy Head Mistress. I agree with Susan's point that she > doesn't have as much on-screen time as we might like. But, I think we > can read into the fact that she's 2nd in command that she must indeed be > the superstar amongst the staff other than Dumbledore (and that > Dumbledore is grooming her to be the next Head Mistress). > > > You make some undeniable points, Susan. Women are pushed into the > > background and held to sterotype. > > I too thought you made excellent points Susan. Lots of the female > characters are background characters or have limited purposes. You did > a great job of illustrating your argument. And, I think your argument > is exactly what Simon was trying to convey yesterday. But, like Neil & > Steve, I think the From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 03:53:16 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:53:16 -0000 Subject: OT-computer history In-Reply-To: <39E91908.84DFE4E@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sb9nc+sue0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3563 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Oh, it was Steve Jobs and Wozniak (can't remember his first name) who > > worked in their basement. Anyway, the personal desktop computer was > > the idea of 60s radicals who wanted to take the power of computing > > away from the Pentagon and give it to the people. Very counter- > > cultural and anti-bureaucratic. > > Shot that foot clean off, didn't they? > > --Amanda ??? Sorry, Amanda, what do you mean? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 04:15:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:15:10 -0000 Subject: Temperance/overweight & a question In-Reply-To: <39E9148E.600D2619@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sbb0e+qu8g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3564 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Denise Rogers wrote: > > > I don't agree that being overweight is associated with > > villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. > > Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. > > Not villains, necessarily, but generally buffoons at the best. Or both, like the bad guy in Jurassic Park. A villain per se must be taken seriously, and part of the whole overweight thing is they're not quite real people who can be truly respected or truly feared. > > --Amanda, whose daughter is a superb example of that last bit Vernon Dursley Dudley Dursley Friar Tuck Sgt. Garcia Baron Harkonnen Caspar Gutman Jabba the Hut From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 04:22:56 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:22:56 -0000 Subject: [OT] Opposite sex best friends In-Reply-To: <8saqvv+ic7m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sbbf0+vs23@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3565 > Furthermore, I really don't see anything wrong with Harry having more > strong male role models than female ones. Recall, Harry's male role > model had been Vernon Dursley until he arrived at Hogwarts. Harry, > himself, knew Uncle Vernon didn't represent the ideal male. It's only > natural that Harry's Hogwarts world is populated with unDursley > males, > since the Hogwarts world is an alternate reality to the Muggle world. > > :-) Milz Uh, his female role models were Aunt Marge, Mrs. Dursley, and Mrs. Figg? Shouldn't it be only natural that Harry's Hogwarts world is populated with unDursley females, since the Hogwarts world is an alternate reality to the Muggle world? From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 04:31:50 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:31:50 -0000 Subject: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001014200300.0089bb5c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8sbbvm+p5l1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3566 > > > > > I see nothing odd in Hermione's friendship with Harry and Ron. My > understanding of Susan's phrase 'male-identified' is that it refers to Hermione being "one of the boys" and denying herself the chance of female > bonding experiences. I do think that's an incorrect assumption. If JKR had > not made Hermione a close friend of the two boys, she may have ended up as > another extra in the story or as one of a pair or threesome of girls > involved in some side-plot. By making her a platonic, close friend of > Harry's JKR ensured that at least one girl was central to the action. Ah, but that's the point.....If JKR had not made Hermione a close friend of the two boys, she would have ended up as another extra in the story......Neil, I'm afraid you have made my whole point here, that girls are relegated to second class....JKR is in control and she could have made it possible for girls to be NOT extras or side plots.. She could have made the Snape, Lupin, Dumbledore, Voldemort, Malfoy, Black character a woman.... You know, I'm almost sorry I started this, because it becomes clear-er and clear-er that women/girls are second class citizens still, although better than 1940..and I don't want to dwell on it. I'd rather have mostly ignored that fact. Of course, it does mean that it's probably important for me to meet face to face with JKR, and discuss this in depth. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 04:37:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:37:10 -0000 Subject: Off-Topic Stereotype Observations In-Reply-To: <39E8C7BD.19B4378E@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sbc9m+17pk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3567 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Of course not. Has anyone else seen the movie Starship Troopers? > > There was such an effort to equalize men and women's roles (having > > the sky marshall be an african woman for example)....it had a > > dramatic impact on me.... It was interesting that they changed that > > from the book > > Is anyone besides me getting tired of the man generally being the idiot in > commercials and shows and such? The white man, most times? Why should > elevating women and our perception of them mean that we must denigrate men? > We should not denigrate men. Why did you get that from my post about Starship Troopers? I said that it was quite different because it portrayed women as equal to men. It had a ton of strong male roles --- Juan Rico, Professor Ratzchek (spelling not very good), Zim, Carl, especially.... I'm afraid I don't watch commercials so I can't comment, but I don't support generalizations or stereotypes of any kind. Susan From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 15 03:50:56 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:50:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 'male-identification' and Snape at DE meetings References: <8sb7ko+89up@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E929A0.88E3C38D@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3568 Susan McGee wrote: > > Actually, you did a better job speaking for me than I did for > myself..I'm a little bit intimidated by Peg because she is so > brilliant. Thanks..... Uh, the idea that I would intimidate anyone first makes me laugh and then utterly unnerves me. Peg From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 15 04:49:23 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:49:23 -0000 Subject: Temperance/overweight & a question In-Reply-To: <8sbb0e+qu8g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sbd0j+808a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3569 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Vernon Dursley > Dudley Dursley > Friar Tuck > Sgt. Garcia > Baron Harkonnen > Caspar Gutman > Jabba the Hut Friar Tuck???? He's a good guy! One of Robin Hood's Merry Men! Pippin From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 15 05:37:34 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 05:37:34 -0000 Subject: Temperance/overweight & a question In-Reply-To: <8sbd0j+808a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sbfqu+kf11@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3570 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > Vernon Dursley > > Dudley Dursley > > Friar Tuck > > Sgt. Garcia > > Baron Harkonnen > > Caspar Gutman > > Jabba the Hut > > Friar Tuck???? He's a good guy! One of Robin Hood's Merry Men! > Pippin Sorry, I was free associating around overweight..not villains, should have been more clear S From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 15 05:46:14 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 06:46:14 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR's sex bias Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001015054614.0089ba3c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3571 Susan said: <<>> I accept that, although I think you are being a little strong with the phrase "relegated to second class," in this context. Without going in circles, I posted some possible reasons for this state of affairs earlier and there seems to be a consensus that Harry's POV gives the female characters in these books less emphasis. JKR does not strike me as someone who would want to convey the idea that women are second class citizens; she is a socialist and seems well aware of gender inequality in the real world. On the other hand, she is an author, who has a right to tell this story as she sees it. If every writer felt they had to put the world to rights in every story they wrote, wouldn't their creativity be compromised? Susan also said: <<>> Your concerns about sexual inequality in the REAL world are valid. I share them, but I think and hope that things are changing for the better. On the other hand, JKR is writing fiction which, for many of us, represents an escape from the real world. Agreed, she has given her male characters a disproportiate share of the limelight, but has that made them better than the female characters? I don't think it has. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 15 06:18:52 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 07:18:52 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Muppets...? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001015061852.008814e0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3572 Kathy (who is on something) said: >So THEN, I thought: what if we could cast HP with Muppets? here's what I >came up with: > >Harry: Kermit (of course, he's Everyfrog) >Hermione: Prairie Dawn from Sesame Street (can't you just see Prairie starting >S.P.E.W.?) >Percy: Sam the American Eagle from the Muppet Show (OK so he ain't >British--he's got the right personality anyway) >Parvati: Miss Piggy >Colin Creevey: Elmo ("Can Elmo take Harry Potter's picture?") > >That's as far as I got. Can anybody think of a good Muppet-Ron? *** I'm not surprised you struggled! I'm no expert on Muppets (despite the fact that I used to go out with someone who worked for the Jim Henson creature workshop - don't go there), but there was this big hairy mammoth thing that would have to be Hagrid. Wouldn't Elmo be more like Dobby? Can't think of a Ron, but then this IS quite a stretch. Why, pray tell, Miss Piggy as Parvati? Oh yeah: Big Bird as Madame Maxime! Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 06:28:18 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 06:28:18 -0000 Subject: A brazen hussy moment . . . In-Reply-To: <39E53944.BEA240E5@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8sbiq2+2s5n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3573 Peg-- Went to the links you gave, and WOW! Congratulations! What a terrific honor. And, it certainly doesn't seem David Soyka could like "The Wild Swans" any better, could he? Guess I'll be hitting the bookstore tomorrow. And, I'd also like to mention how much I'm enjoying your essays on the seven deadly sins and the seven heavenly virtues. Wonderfully thought-provoking, and they add such a dimension to the story. I feel as though I'm in a really great Lit. class, with the best teacher in school. Kelley, proud to be on the same list as Peg Kerr, award-winning author From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 06:51:58 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 06:51:58 -0000 Subject: Bookends In-Reply-To: <39E7242D.C5CA62C4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sbk6e+24ah@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3574 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > Sorry to be so long in responding -- full inbox! Yes, I have the WB > train bookends -- and I did buy mine in July sometime. The ones on B&N> are different -- I may *have* to have those too since they're H/H (hee, hee). Of course, I don't like that they've given Hermione blonde hair.> Do these artists *read* the books? Thanks for the reply, the train are definitely the ones I want. If WB gets more in, that is. Were they about $35-40? That's the amount I keep thinking of. I have the same problem with the 'reading' bookends. You know, depictions of the trio don't have to match my mental picture, but couldn't they at least try to be as close as possible to JKR's descriptions? Blonde hair, honestly. > As for the WB set -- I saw them on an ebay auction the other day > (they're pictured so you can definitely see them there). The seller in> this auction intimates that WB isn't making these bookends anymore,> although I find that hard to believe. Anyway . . . if you want to see> them (and maybe bid on them), you can find them on ebay. > > Penny I'll check out ebay, thanks. Will have to see how outrageous the bids are, though. Thanks Penny, I appreciate it. Kelley From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 15 09:47:08 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:47:08 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: addendum plus a request References: <39E8694A.A79245A5@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3575 Penny - fair enough. thanks anyway storm ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 12:10 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: addendum plus a request Hi -- storm stanford wrote: > Also - Keepers of the List - do you think we could have a notice on > this > list when new chapers have been posted in ASA/DS/NES? please?. I like > to > read them and I forget to check the list to see where things are up > to. I'd love to get the posts off the POU list which would of course > tell me, but I'm already staggering under the (welcome) weight of > this list. There is a notification that goes out in the PoU list everytime a file is uploaded, but I guess that doesn't help you if you're on webview for that list. I think my general reaction is that most people who care about the PoU/ASA/DS/STNE stories are on that listserve & it would be a bit off-topic to make those announcements here. If there are others in Storm's boat who would like an annoucement of that sort on *this* list, email me privately & I'll see if there's enough interest. My fear is that those announcements would get replied to, and suddenly STNE discussions would be mistakenly going on over here. We have enough volume over here without all that (as you pointed out). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Oct 15 09:26:45 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:26:45 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] [OT] No, Harry, *I* am your father... References: <200010150140.e9F1e1U28443@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <005f01c0368a$09b334a0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3576 > I don't have my copy of CoS handy, but I am almost sure it says Ginny has > green eyes (the scene where Harry and Ron are walking up the stairs at the > Burrow and see her peeking out of the doorway, right?) Of course, I could > totally be wrong and be shooting my mouth off...or someone else probably > confirmed this in one of the 400 messages I still haven't read...but, like I > said, expect strange things from me tonight... Sorry, Kathy. CoS, chapter three, p.35 UK edition (paperback), p.40 hardcover US version: 'On the third landing, a door stood ajar. Harry just caught sight of a pair of bright brown eyes starting at him before it closed with a snap. 'Ginny,' said Ron. 'You don't know how weird it is for her to be this shy, she never shuts up normally --' ~Firebolt From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 15 11:07:11 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:07:11 +1000 Subject: After a Dementors Kiss - Now what? lots of questions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3577 Hey everyone 1. My apologies if this has been discussed before - I don't recall reading it on past posts. 2. I've been thinking about what would happen to a person after they had (suffered?/been given?) a kiss from a dementor. I understand the experience of living with the dementors in prison is based on clinical depression - and having been there, done that I can certainly see how it would be a long slow painful death. But what about the ppl who lose their soul at once? What happens to them? We are told that it is "worse than death" but what does that mean? What does it mean to loose one's soul - ones connected-ness to other beings? will to live? one's memory? other things. Do the individuals (e.g. Barty Crouch Jnr) still live, breath, walk around? Do they have any memory of how they were before? (without that it wouldn't seem like much suffering except for the ppl who love them) Do they have a concept of how much they have lost? (cf. ppl who have acquired brain injury can sometimes be well aware of the things they can no longer feel/do) If there is no joy is there also no pain? Where do these ppl live - in the community (as an example to others?)? In St Mungo's Hospital? What kind of things can they do? Do they have a normal life span (unlike ppl living around dementors)? Do they become dementors? And what happens to the dementor when they feed in such a way? is it *another* meal? does it last longer? What happens to a dementor if they don't eat? how do you kill/neutralise (nice euphemism!) a dementor or can a silvery penny only chase them away? I don't think there is a lot of information in the cannon so I'd love to hear other ppl's ideas about what these things/knowledge of other traditions. storm From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 15 11:35:09 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:35:09 +1000 Subject: OT Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: overweight References: <1.5.4.32.20001014230107.008895b0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <000f01c03643$f95e7600$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39E9148E.600D2619@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3578 -- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Temperance/overweight & a question Denise Rogers wrote: > I don't agree that being overweight is associated with > villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. > Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. Not villains, necessarily, but generally buffoons at the best. Or both, like the bad guy in Jurassic Park. A villain per se must be taken seriously, and part of the whole overweight thing is they're not quite real people who can be truly respected or truly feared. --Amanda, whose daughter is a superb example of that last bit Amanda - I hope your daughter doesn't need to be feared! I wonder about this a bit - one of my previous partners was, in hindsight I notice very overwieght, I thought then and think now, that she is increadably beautiful. but it is not one of her definaing charatortics for me. My boss is overwight - she is great, I don't notice it at all. one of the cerical workers - I can't stand her! she is also overwight. When I think about her its one of her definainly charatoroistics. further on predjuice, and a bit related to your original post - I met some ppl the other day who are owners of a dog I found and resuced. Apart from the fact that I don't like them for what they did to their dog, when I met them I was stuck(unfavourabley) by how "blond, white and well fed" they looked (in contrast to thier dog I might add). Later I was thinking, what if they'd been chinese, or lebanese - as they might have easily been given the area I live in - would I have found some other things to pick on them? I think it unlikely I would have picked racial grounds to dislike them. storm (attempting to root out her predujices, even when they relate to blond, master-race, fundermentalist christans who mistreat thier dogs ...) eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Oct 15 11:36:26 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:36:26 +0100 Subject: napies, cross over fanfic, female characters, reading, Harry and faith Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3579 Amanda wrote: "definitely still diapers" Why do we assume that the wizarding world use nappies (diapers for the Americans)? Maybe they have found some great magical alternative to them! Melanie wrote: "Wow! Keeping up with this list is a full time job (let alone working on the FAQs)!" And "At the end of PoA, Dean Thomas speculated that they might have a vampire for a DADA teacher the following year. When Angel tires of fighting Los Angeles demons, maybe he should apply. He certainly has the experience. Of course, that doesn't necessarily make him teacher material, but compared to Quirrell or Lockhart... I can almost feel a crossover fanfic coming on!" I know how you feel. I am busy for just a small part of the weekend and suddenly I have hundreds of messages to catch up on. There is a fan fiction in which Harry meets Buffy (that may even be the title) where Giles is the DADA teacher. Angel appears in that. I do not know if there are any more of a similar nature. Susan wrote: "She could have made the Snape, Lupin, Dumbledore, Voldemort, Malfoy, Black character a woman...." The Malfoy (I am assuming that it is Draco) / Harry interaction would only work male/male. I could not see there being the same level of hate if it were male / female. Someone wrote: "Nothing. Reading books is neither inherently masculine nor feminine. Please understand, I'm not trying to make this come across as a flame; I'm just honestly baffled by your reasoning." In the UK, especially when concerned with school and schoolwork, reading is definitely seen as the feminine option. Neil wrote: "I posted some possible reasons for this state of affairs earlier and there seems to be a consensus that Harry's POV gives the female characters in these books less emphasis." As far as Harry is concerned there is only one female he wants in his life. This is a mother. I cannot see it mattering to him whether his close friends are male or female. The important thing too him is that they are loyal and trustworthy, something lacking in his early years. Peg wrote: "> Indeed--how can faith survive in times like these? And conversely, how can one survive without it? You simply have to embrace it. Walk toward it. Don't stop and don't be scared, that's very important. Best do it at a bit of a run if you're nervous. Go on." Carole replied: "Ahhh, If we all could be that full of faith......" Is it easier for a child to show such faith, as compared to an adult? What about a child who has seen so little of this concept? Simon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 15 12:07:30 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:07:30 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bookends Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3580 Check out http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com They have some lovely merchandise, and they'll be getting bookends soon. When they come in, I think I'm ordering a set. It shows Harry entering the common room through the Pink Lady portrait. It's quite cute. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 15 12:07:34 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:07:34 EDT Subject: JKR's sex bias Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3581 Time for me to add my 2 knuts: We know that JKR wrote these stories for herself, but OF COURSE her main objective was in getting them published so that other people could enjoy them, too. And I wonder if subconsciously she made the story more geared to boys than girls. Statistically speaking, girls are bigger readers than boys, and there is less of a social stigma for a girl to read a "boy" book. I think it's quite possible that she wrote it from a boy's POV simply to appeal to more readers. From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sun Oct 15 13:23:24 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:23:24 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha In-Reply-To: <8sb90r+qu47@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3582 > > Martha wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > I always pictured Snape leaving Hogwarts, getting into trouble (if > he > was truly a Death Eater), having Dumbledore come to his aid in > some> way, turning spy, and then being offered the Hogwarts job by > > Dumbledore. In GoF Dumbledore does say Snape is there at his > > invitation. I have often wondered how long he has been there. > > > > Martha > > So, you think he was a DE before he was a teacher? I see. This is > a scenario I hadn't thought of, and it makes a lot of sense. You're > right about the 'invitation' part. I'd forgotten that. Very > interesting. Now I'm even more eager to know what happened... > > Kelley I always figure Snape became a Death Eater after graduating from Hogwarts. Where did he go after graduating? I can't believe he immediately went into teaching as he would be rather young. Also, the question has been raised as to whether he was ever REALLY a Death Eater or has this just always been a plan of Dumbledore and Snape. The one thing I have always found strange was when Dumbledore stood up and told everyone Snape had been a spy (during Karkaroff's trial). Would you let everyone know that? I don't imagine you would be very popular with your other Death Eater friends and Voldemort supporters. Word would surely get around. Martha A strong woman type whose profession is being a wife and mother and loving every minute of it and wouldn't give a hoot if all the characters in the book were men and who thinks women sure do over react about many things and.......isn't this about Harry Potter? From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 15 15:23:31 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:23:31 -0500 Subject: OT Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: overweight References: <1.5.4.32.20001014230107.008895b0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <000f01c03643$f95e7600$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39E9148E.600D2619@texas.net> Message-ID: <00f301c036bb$e0b02b80$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3583 ok, I want to set the record straight. The quote below IS NOT MY QUOTE! I was quoting someone else! I also gave the huge list of Disney characters right after I quoted that....(or was it before?) ----- Original Message ----- From: storm stanford To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 6:35 AM Subject: OT Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: overweight -- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 12:21 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Temperance/overweight & a question Denise Rogers wrote: > I don't agree that being overweight is associated with > villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. > Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. Not villains, necessarily, but generally buffoons at the best. Or both, like the bad guy in Jurassic Park. A villain per se must be taken seriously, and part of the whole overweight thing is they're not quite real people who can be truly respected or truly feared. --Amanda, whose daughter is a superb example of that last bit Amanda - I hope your daughter doesn't need to be feared! I wonder about this a bit - one of my previous partners was, in hindsight I notice very overwieght, I thought then and think now, that she is increadably beautiful. but it is not one of her definaing charatortics for me. My boss is overwight - she is great, I don't notice it at all. one of the cerical workers - I can't stand her! she is also overwight. When I think about her its one of her definainly charatoroistics. further on predjuice, and a bit related to your original post - I met some ppl the other day who are owners of a dog I found and resuced. Apart from the fact that I don't like them for what they did to their dog, when I met them I was stuck(unfavourabley) by how "blond, white and well fed" they looked (in contrast to thier dog I might add). Later I was thinking, what if they'd been chinese, or lebanese - as they might have easily been given the area I live in - would I have found some other things to pick on them? I think it unlikely I would have picked racial grounds to dislike them. storm (attempting to root out her predujices, even when they relate to blond, master-race, fundermentalist christans who mistreat thier dogs ...) eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 15 14:50:42 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:50:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bookends References: <8sbk6e+24ah@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39E9C442.9F250EC2@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3584 Hi -- Kelley wrote: > Thanks for the reply, the train are definitely the ones I want. If > WB gets more in, that is. Were they about $35-40? That's the amount > I keep thinking of. $30 --- which I thought was a pretty decent price. I can't imagine that WB won't be making anymore. They weren't billed as a limited edition or anything. But, I guess I'm glad I got mine when I did! I've requested a WB catalogue but maybe someone who already has the catalogue can comment on whether those bookends are listed in the HP merchandise. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 15 15:02:21 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:02:21 -0500 Subject: Character Identification References: <1.5.4.32.20001014230107.008895b0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39E9C6FC.4328C83B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3585 Hi -- Neil Ward wrote: > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before in > one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? My immediate thought is that I'm alot like Hermione, only a much more reserved version. Bookish, brainy (but always kept the "right" answers to myself due to shyness), a worrier, friendly to many different types of people, liberal ("left-of-centre"), a logical thinker, etc. I identify a bit with Percy's ambition . . . . and his compassionate caring side that he doesn't let out very often. I could also be said to be a bit like Neville in that I've always largely been a background person, someone who didn't seek out the limelight & actively shied away from it in fact (perhaps to the point of not realizing my full potential -- much like Neville). Can't really think of any other character that my personality identifies strongly with. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 15 15:06:54 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:06:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] [OT] No, Harry, *I* am your father... References: <200010150140.e9F1e1U28443@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <39E9C80E.365421F1@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3586 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > I don't have my copy of CoS handy, but I am almost sure it says Ginny > has green eyes (the scene where Harry and Ron are walking up the > stairs at the Burrow and see her peeking out of the doorway, right?) Kathy -- you may be thinking of the audio versions -- Jim Dale very definitely says green eyes rather than brown. I think Dale must have been reading from a non-final draft of CoS. My British version of CoS also says brown eyes. So . . . . the scenario might seem to be as follows (a) Junior level American editor thinks that all redheads have green eyes & changes Ginny's eye color when revising the Brit version, (b) Dale takes one of these drafts for recording purposes, and (c) more Sr. American editor, in comparing the final British version with the almost-final American version, says "Hey! Why did you change the eye color? Not a change demanded by idiom & such -- change it back to brown." Or --- Jim Dale mis-read it as green in the recording process and noone ever realized the error. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 15 15:08:15 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:08:15 +0100 Subject: OT Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: overweight Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001015150815.0089c390@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3587 Dee said: ok, I want to set the record straight. The quote below IS NOT MY QUOTE! I was quoting someone else! I also gave the huge list of Disney characters right after I quoted that....(or was it before?) > Denise Rogers wrote: > > > I don't agree that being overweight is associated with > > villains as such - I'd say most bad guys are portrayed as thin and dark. > > Doubtless, someone will now post a list of fat villains. No, it was me who said the above. It is confusing though, referring to quotes of quotes of quotes - we can easily lose track of the origin. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From fluctuation at rocketmail.com Sun Oct 15 15:26:27 2000 From: fluctuation at rocketmail.com (fluctuation at rocketmail.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:26:27 -0000 Subject: Hermione & JKR (Long) In-Reply-To: <39E86D69.C4FAFA86@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8scib3+4966@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3588 But, like Peg, perhaps > we should be more forgiving of these characters as they traverse > adolescence. We've all been there! Hell... Some of us are still there! Marcus From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 15 16:25:27 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:25:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Muppets...? Fozie Bear as Ron, of course! References: <1.5.4.32.20001015061852.008814e0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <011501c036c4$87e07ce0$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3589 Who else for the side-kick, besides Fozie Bear? He's even a red-head. For Madame T, of course, it'd be Olga from the Dark Crystal! :) For Snape, Oscar the Grouch! Miss Piggy of course will hold out her contract until she gets the role SHE wants, which of course is Hermione, whether it suits her or not, and then, of course, all the H/H people out there would be in heaven as she goes off about "her little Harry!" Ludo or Jack for Hagrid. (Jack, from the Muppet Movie--the car dealership) Who'd be Dumbledore? The man with the bird on his head from Labyrinth? Actually if you're going for intelligence, and paying no attention to size, I think the Worm would be the best! Pulling a blank on the rest..... ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Ward To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 1:18 AM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Muppets...? Kathy (who is on something) said: >So THEN, I thought: what if we could cast HP with Muppets? here's what I >came up with: > >Harry: Kermit (of course, he's Everyfrog) >Hermione: Prairie Dawn from Sesame Street (can't you just see Prairie starting >S.P.E.W.?) >Percy: Sam the American Eagle from the Muppet Show (OK so he ain't >British--he's got the right personality anyway) >Parvati: Miss Piggy >Colin Creevey: Elmo ("Can Elmo take Harry Potter's picture?") > >That's as far as I got. Can anybody think of a good Muppet-Ron? *** I'm not surprised you struggled! I'm no expert on Muppets (despite the fact that I used to go out with someone who worked for the Jim Henson creature workshop - don't go there), but there was this big hairy mammoth thing that would have to be Hagrid. Wouldn't Elmo be more like Dobby? Can't think of a Ron, but then this IS quite a stretch. Why, pray tell, Miss Piggy as Parvati? Oh yeah: Big Bird as Madame Maxime! Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 15 16:01:21 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 15 Oct 2000 09:01:21 -0700 Subject: Character Identification Message-ID: <20001015160121.7911.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3590 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 15 15:59:38 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:59:38 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Baby Harry? References: <39E915DD.A3164661@texas.net> Message-ID: <39E9D46A.6CC37702@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3591 I'm agreeing with Amanda here - my son will be 2 days shy of 15 months on Halloween this year - and he is still, in many ways, a baby. Clinically, they're toddlers when they start to walk, but that stage generally lasts until they are 3 or so. However, my Harry does walk a lot, climb a lot, and talk a little, and eat most everything a grownup eats - and if he was a wizard baby & his daddy had been a seeker, he'd probably have started to learn how to play catch with special Baby Snitches made exclusively for playing with toddlers. What I don't like, in Chapter 1, is the statement that Harry would be famous for something that happened before he could walk or talk. If he's really not walking at 15 months, that's generally a sign that his development is a little slow, which doesn't fit at all with comments later in book 1 & sebsequently that he's very very well corrdinated, a fast runner, and obviously a great flyer. Especially because we've been led to believe that Dudley is between 2 and 3 months older than Harry & that would mean that his development was pretty fine - to be 17-18 months old & dragging his mum up the street screaming for sweets is a pretty big accomplishment for a toddler of that age. Then again, that comment was made by someone (it was either mcgonnegal or dubmledore - don't remember who) who we have been led to believe doesn't have children, and thus doesn't know the exact developmental milestones of a 15 month old. And I still call my Harry a baby - toddler just seems so formal when you're trying to get the little guy to NAP! Amanda - email me off the list - what day was your baby born? Amanda Lewanski wrote: > summers.65 at osu.edu wrote: > > > So on Halloween when Voldemort bites the dust, is that 1980 or 1981? I > > think it's 1981. So Harry would have been fifteen months old exactly. > > > > That's hardly a baby. A fifteen month old is walking, and talking some, > > and making a general nuisance of himself. It's getting on into > > toddlerhood. > > But still very much a baby. Just barely starting to talk, saying ma-ma and > pzzz and dn ("please" and "down"), maybe walking for a long time now but > maybe not, definitely still diapers, not even really sticking hands through > T-shirt arms yet, puttiing awful things in mouth, etc. My youngest is just > precisely fifteen months old, and is definitely still a baby. He'll be a > toddler, doing toddler things, in another four to six months. > > --Amanda > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 15 16:06:53 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 15 Oct 2000 09:06:53 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Muppets...? Message-ID: <20001015160653.7997.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3592 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 15 16:13:29 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:13:29 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] napies, cross over fanfic, female characters, reading, Harry and faith References: Message-ID: <39E9D7A9.A1BFA5D0@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3593 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Amanda wrote: "definitely still diapers" > > Why do we assume that the wizarding world use nappies (diapers for the > Americans)? Maybe they have found some great magical alternative to them! Then, poor thing the first time Aunt Petunia puts him into one. And she'd probably stick him with a pin accidentally on purpose, too. (were disposables as widespread back in 1981 in the UK as hey are now?) From monika at darwin.inka.de Sun Oct 15 16:25:58 2000 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:25:58 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] After a Dementors Kiss - Now what? lots of questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3kkjussa3tj3412edfegicptm2nsdjkgrb@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3594 On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:07:11 +1000, "storm stanford" wrote: >Do the individuals (e.g. Barty Crouch Jnr) still live, breath, walk around? It seems so, at least this is how I understood it. >Do they have any memory of how they were before? If they have their souls sucked out, this is highly improbable. >Do they become dementors? Now, this is a very interesting question. I have always wondered how dementors reproduced, but the dementor's kiss could be their way to "create" new dementors. Are dementors male, or are there any females? I doubt it, I always thought of them as asexual beings. I think a person that received the dementor's kiss will act like a zombie and perhaps really change into a dementor after a while. Monika -- Books and Movies http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 15 16:36:11 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:36:11 -0000 Subject: Chat today! Message-ID: <8scmdr+3l1t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3595 Hi, gang! I am so excited, because my husband had a week's vacation from his regional theatre gig. It was great having him home for a while. Only 3 more weeks, and he'll be home for good. Yay! Anyway, he brought his laptop home, so I'm no longer computer-less on the weekends, and I'll "see" everyone in the chat this afternoon. voicelady From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 15 17:42:51 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:42:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] CHAT References: <3kkjussa3tj3412edfegicptm2nsdjkgrb@4ax.com> Message-ID: <000b01c036cf$577e5080$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3596 I am not certain if I will be able to make the beginning of chat. Rita, or Dennis, or someone with Cheeta, would you mind "taping" the chat until I can get there? Mom's kidnapping me, and I never know how long I'll be there, since I am not driving (just temp driving at this time, lol!) Be there asap!!! Dee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Oct 15 16:52:01 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:52:01 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Muppets...? References: <20001015160653.7997.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <004301c036c8$3f557c60$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3597 > The first muppet that came to mind, for me, as Harry and Ron were, respectively, Ernie and Bert! > > And the Count as Snape! Is it just me, or is everyone else getting very odd mental images from that? Almost as bad as the Disney-fied Harry Potter - just imagine what would happen to the Sorting Hat song(s). Or you could just bet that Snape would start singing about how wonderful potions is, suddenly stopping and ending with his dunderheads line (I forget the quote, sorry - it's somewhere in the chapter called 'The Potions Master' in PS). ~Firebolt From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Oct 15 16:51:07 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:51:07 +0100 Subject: Chat and napies Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3598 Dee wrote: "I am not certain if I will be able to make the beginning of chat. Rita, or Dennis, or someone with Cheeta, would you mind "taping" the chat until I can get there?" I have set cheeta going on my machine. I am going out shortly and hope to be back in around 7:30pm. Hopefully nothing will go wrong between now and then. See people later. Even if I am FAQing or doing some maths in the background while I chat. Heidi asked: "were disposables [nappies/diapers] as widespread back in 1981 in the UK as hey are now?)" They were around in then but few people used them. I did not use disposables and I turned two in 1981 and this is common among many of my friends who are of a similar age. Simon From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Sun Oct 15 17:06:38 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:06:38 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bookends References: <8sbk6e+24ah@eGroups.com> <39E9C442.9F250EC2@swbell.net> Message-ID: <00bb01c036ca$71759980$106a883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 3599 Perhaps not very helpful to many but I noticed today the train bookends are still available in WB in Piccadilly, London. Maybe you could get them shipped if you are really desperate. Sadly there were no golden snitch keyrings left and I wanted one. Heather From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Oct 15 17:13:13 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:13:13 -0000 Subject: The Trouble with Isms (was 'male-identification') In-Reply-To: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8scoj9+r5l1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3600 I've had to be quiet for the past few days... there's been a lot in my mailbox from this group that I have strong opinions about. By no means do I want my replies to get me banned from the list... let me tread softly here... Also, before I begin, please know that I am not attacking one poster in general. The old saying "if the shoe fits" is in effect. If what I say offends, please know that these are just my thoughts in general sifted from reading over 300 posts. And the implications for Harry Potter and his creator are at the end of this long post. I'll begin this by saying that I feel somewhat alienated from most baby boomer ideologies. I believe that all groups deserve equal opportunity, that women should get an equal day's pay for an equal day's work, that persons should be entitled to partner benefits no matter what their sexual preference, and that most wars are quite senseless. However, the problem that I have with most movements that had their origin in the 1960s is that the movements seem to be stuck there. By not reinventing themselves for postmodern times, these "isms" have alienated an entire generation and a half. Black leaders get angry at younger African Americans for not continuing the struggle. Feminists get angry at young women for not being militant enough (a la Ally McBeal). The list goes on and on. The anger and disappointment is somewhat justifiable. We Xers and Yers should have more passion for ideologies. Just not the ideologies of the past. What I think has happened is that the world we live in today is somewhat different from the world in 1960. Does my generation seem materialistic? We should be! For us, economics is a HUGE issue-- after all, we have the *pleasant* task of paying for the boomers' retirement while taking care of our own children. We also know that Social Security will be gone long before we hit retirement at age 90 or whatever ridiculous age we'll have to be before we can qualify for benefits. Another thing that most of us are unconsciously doing is re- evaluating the movements of the 1960s and 1970s. Most young African Americans could care less about reparations. We do support affirmative action only until American education becomes desegregated... how can you be expected to compete when equal access is a fantasy? (To that end, my choice of undergraduate institution was based upon the raging and often nasty affirmative action debate that went on in the mid-1990s... I went to a college where no one could dare say to me that I didn't earn the right to be there.) And as far as race relations are concerned, the consensus among youth and young adults in my community is "integration didn't work... Next! What's Plan B?" No one's looking for militant solutions nowadays. Just common sense. The backlash against feminism has occurred because we had to deal with the breakdown of the family. Personal testimonials notwithstanding, the fact is that a lot of us had to raise ourselves (with help from peers and the media). If you want statistical evidence of what I'm saying, I'd be happy to provide it. I'm in the kid business, and those teachers who parents love to blame for their children's ills are doing research on *why children aren't learning*. The findings will shock you. PACIFISM --- Martha wrote: > (And I must say there is such a big difference between murder and > what our men and women in combat do!!! Just my personal opinion). All I'll say is a hearty "amen". I too can learn temperance. :-) As the daughter of a Vietnam vet, and the sweetheart of a man in uniform, the idea that war is a necessary evil as long as we humans have hierarchical tendencies is branded into my psyche. I was a pacifist as a teen until my father sat me down and explained to me exactly how he felt coming home from Asia as a shell-shocked nineteen year old and getting spat upon, jeered at, etc. Yes, the war was stupid (as most wars are) and our men shouldn't have been over there. But the people who should have gotten unclean bodily fluids tossed upon them were in Washington. If the real world and Harry's world were like heaven, I'd say sure, let's follow that passage in Isaiah, convert our weapons into farming implements, and make love and not war. But neither world is so benign. Scale down the armed forces? You'd better believe that the 21st century's answer to Hitler will come knocking at out door. You may not mind World War III being fought in Britain or the United States. But *I* do. > Martha wrote: > A strong woman type whose profession is being a wife and mother and > loving every minute of it and wouldn't give a hoot if all the > characters in the book were men and who thinks women sure do over > react about many things and.......isn't this about Harry Potter? I find it interesting that while it's okay to chastise JKR for not having more female characters in the limelight, members were shot down at the Yahoo site for: 1) saying that Harry Potter should be more ethnically diverse (the comment was that the ethnic characters were similarly marginalized), and 2) identifying the House-Elves with enslaved African Americans. I haven't seen those members around here lately. I think the story is just fine the way that it is. If I wanted to read a novel with lots of diversity, there are many choices available. If I wanted to read a novel with lots of strong female characters, again, there are many choices available. The heart of the matter is that is bothers me when people are not consistent in their ideological reasoning. I am not a conservative by any means. But I do know one thing. You may have rights. But your rights stop when mine begin. And my rights stop where yours begin. What this all boils down to is that everyone has a responsibility to respect their fellow man and acknowledge his or his human rights. However, the trouble with many -isms in Y2K is that those who wear these labels want not only respect, want not only acceptance, but *endorsement*. Some even seem to want to punish those in the dominant group who oppressed them. Most wish to suppress any ideology that does not agree with their own. How unfair! You've become a virtual mirror of your oppressor. I have no desire to punish white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men. The fact that I am neither white nor Anglo-Saxon nor Protestant nor male does not give me the right to sit in judgment of them. (The fact that I believe that every unjust act is avenged by Someone eventually helps a great deal with this.) Nor does my so-called "double minority" status give me the right to force my personal ideologies on any other human being, or condemn them for not embracing them as their own. I do hope Joanne Rowling continues to write the story that is in her heart, free from any political pressure. She does not have a responsibility to carry the banner for anyone's agenda besides her own. We as readers may wish to claim ownership of her work, but *she* is the creator and ultimately should maintain sovereignty over her characters' destiny. Long live Harry Potter--the Boy Who Lived (and sparked controversy)! Ebony From lrcjestes at msn.com Sun Oct 15 17:42:18 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:42:18 -0400 Subject: Martha's salutation, and 15 month olds References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006201c036cf$44762ee0$f743ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3601 > Martha > > A strong woman type whose profession is being a wife and mother and > loving every minute of it and wouldn't give a hoot if all the > characters in the book were men and who thinks women sure do over > react about many things and.......isn't this about Harry Potter? Amen....its JKR's story she is telling the story she wants to tell, and if she wrote it any other way it would not be nearly as good. When you start trying to write a story that you think other people will like rather than the story you think is true...things generally get mucked up and then neither you nor your reader likes the story. On another topic: heidi wrote: > What I don't like, in Chapter 1, is the statement that Harry would be famous > for something that happened before he could walk or talk. If he's really not > walking at 15 months, that's generally a sign that his development is a little > slow, which doesn't fit at all with comments later in book 1 & sebsequently > that he's very very well corrdinated, a fast runner, and obviously a great > flyer. Especially because we've been led to believe that Dudley is between 2 > and 3 months older than Harry & that would mean that his development was pretty > fine - to be 17-18 months old & dragging his mum up the street screaming for > sweets is a pretty big accomplishment for a toddler of that age. > Then again, that comment was made by someone (it was either mcgonnegal or > dubmledore - don't remember who) who we have been led to believe doesn't have > children, and thus doesn't know the exact developmental milestones of a 15 > month old. And I still call my Harry a baby - toddler just seems so formal when > you're trying to get the little guy to NAP! I have a 19 month old who really didn't start walking until 17 months...he was hell on knees though, so he really didn't see any advantage to walking...until he did it then he was off to the races....so its not out of the question that he was not walking. My 19mo is not a big talker either...his most distinct words are "tank you"....which is very pleasent....but then he has 2 older brothers to talk for him....what I've always had a problem with was Dummbledore and McG leaving Harry on the doorstep. At 15 months he could have gotten out of his basket and just crawled off into the night, even if he wasn't walking! MAybe one of them stayed behind to make sure he didn't, but....hmmmmm carole From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Sun Oct 15 18:59:41 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:59:41 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3602 On 13.10.2000 at 23:43:09 Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: >However, I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment of Harry Potter. >Yes, it makes me uneasy sometimes as I see the long string of >subordinate female characters. But I rather think that JKR is >reproducing the world as it is, and not how it may be idealized by >future visions of genuine equality. The only real sign of female >equality seems to be the fact that Quidditch teams are not >gender-biased. > I can still enjoy the books, too, even if Rowling decides to have only marginal and little developed female characters beside Hermione. I simply wish she would be a bit more subversive when she reproduces the world we are living in. She "gets them while they're young", so to speak, and might have wanted to grab the opportunity to plant some new images of females in her readers' heads. Nothing major. Let the female Quidditch players not just be names that pop up now and then but show that they can be just as ambitious and passionate about their sport as Harry and Ron are. Stuff that goes unnoticed, but settles in our minds and jumps out at us when we don't expect it. There was trace evidence of McGonagal's mentoring Hermione in all the books, but after she really emerged as a mentor in the beginning of PoA it just fizzled away. The picture of McGonagal that just pops up first in my mind is her in a robe and hairnet, scolding people for being out of bed at inappropriate times. Only later I think of her wizarding abilities and the wry sense of humor she shows went she comments on Professor Trelawney. Cho Chang was a similar dissapointment. She first appeared as a competent Quidditch Seeker in CoS, doing her best to make up for her inferior broom when playing against Harry, but then she was quickly reduced to the part of "possible date and crush target". And don't get me started on Fleur..... However, I think the developement of Molly Weasley in GoF and the appearance of Headmistress What-Was-Her-Name-Again give reason to hope. Although it bugged me that Molly didn't go to the Quidditch World Cup with no explanation given (or did I just miss it?). Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Sun Oct 15 18:59:41 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:59:41 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters - very long and very opinionated References: <1.5.4.32.20001014123407.00a042ec@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3603 On 14.10.2000 at 13:34:07 Neil Ward wrote: >I don't know that JKR is male-identifed as such, because she has said that >she identifies with Hermione. We could ask why she chose a male lead? >Perhaps it was to avoid having the book cast as reading for girls, but maybe >it was simply because that was the story she wanted to write and how she >wanted to write it. It certainly hasn't lessened the appeal of the books to >women and girls. Of course not. I read "boy books" all my life and knew many girls who did, but the boys I knew wouldn't have touched a "girls book" if their life depended on it. Has that changed at all? I'm a bit out of the kids' book scene. >PS - Good point about the term 'Animaga', although it would make McGonagall >sound like she should be battling head to head with Godzilla. LOL Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From lrcjestes at msn.com Sun Oct 15 18:02:09 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:02:09 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters References: Message-ID: <007a01c036d2$0a7d74c0$f743ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3604 >Although it bugged me that Molly didn't go to the Quidditch > World Cup with no explanation given (or did I just miss it?). > Maybe she just wanted some time alone, after a summer with 5 kids in the house...trust me I'd have opted for the time alone! carole From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Sun Oct 15 18:08:12 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:08:12 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bookends References: <8sbk6e+24ah@eGroups.com> <39E9C442.9F250EC2@swbell.net> Message-ID: <009601c036d2$e3210d00$db3c073e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3605 ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 3:50 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bookends > Hi -- > > Kelley wrote: > > > Thanks for the reply, the train are definitely the ones I want. If > > WB gets more in, that is. Were they about $35-40? That's the amount > > I keep thinking of. > > $30 --- which I thought was a pretty decent price. > > I can't imagine that WB won't be making anymore. They weren't billed as > a limited edition or anything. But, I guess I'm glad I got mine when I > did! I've requested a WB catalogue but maybe someone who already has > the catalogue can comment on whether those bookends are listed in the HP > merchandise. Well, if it's any comfort to you, they must still be making them because we are only just starting to get the merchandise over here in Blighty and my bookends arrived the other day in the store - can't wait to pick them up! I took a leaf out of everyone's book here, and ordered them to make sure I got them - plus my local WB store call me everytime they get something new in - I'm really hoping we get all the same merchandise over here. I'm absolutely set on getting the ornaments for my tree this year, and can't wait to see the t-shirts and the sorting hat keyring. Alix From joym999 at aol.com Sun Oct 15 18:36:58 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:36:58 -0000 Subject: napies, cross over fanfic, female characters, reading, Harry and faith In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sctga+trrj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3606 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Why do we assume that the wizarding world use nappies (diapers for the > Americans)? Maybe they have found some great magical alternative to them! That's something any parent would love to have: a "Poopgowayus" spell!!! -- Joywitch From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Sun Oct 15 19:42:49 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:42:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters References: <007a01c036d2$0a7d74c0$f743ddcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3607 On 15.10.2000 at 14:02:09 lrcjestes wrote: >>Although it bugged me that Molly didn't go to the Quidditch >> World Cup with no explanation given (or did I just miss it?). >> > > >Maybe she just wanted some time alone, after a summer with 5 kids in >the >house...trust me I'd have opted for the time alone! > >carole > > I have no problem with her staying home. I was waiting for her to say what my mom said when my dad took us to the soccer game on Saturday afternoon: "Have fun - and don't come home too soon." :-) Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 15 18:51:03 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:51:03 -0000 Subject: Bookishness,(wasnapies, cross over fanfic, female characters,ETC) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8scuan+cgbv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3608 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" > The Malfoy (I am assuming that it is Draco) / Harry interaction I think she meant Lucius, suggesting that it could have been an arrogant, elegant, rich MOTHER who escorted Draco to Knockturn Alley -- but Arthur wouldn't get into a fistfight with a WOMAN.... > > In the UK, especially when concerned with school and schoolwork, > reading is definitely seen as the feminine option. The USA is famous for being an anti-intellectual country, where people are mocked for being bookworms, eggheads, highbrows, etc. I have longed noticed (being twice your age, I have had a long time in which to notice) that braininess and bookishness are considered neither masculine nor feminine. A boy who does his homework (or a Presidential candidate who has written a book) is mocked as being not a 'real man', therefore of being (everyone, please forgive the term) a 'faggot'. Thus, one could think that homework is considered feminine. (Which would even have some plausibility, as statistics indicate that girls get better grades in school than boys and continue on to college at a higher rate.) However, a GIRL who does her homework is mocked as not being a 'real girl' and accused of being (another term to excuse) a 'dyke'. Because she is assumed to have two masculine traits: not obsessing over her appearance (the 'librarian in glasses' stereotype) and being independent. Thus, one could think that homework is considered masculine. What REALLY gets me is when I see on the news that black students in primarily black schools (we have plenty of de facto segregation here) nowdays are mocking their peers who do homework for 'acting white'. That is so ridiculous! White schoolkids hate good students just as much as those black kids on the news! Some black adult commentators mourn that, in their days, black students always worked hard in school and respected peers who did well in school. If so, they were being DIFFERENT from the white majority! From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sun Oct 15 19:27:38 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:27:38 -0000 Subject: The Trouble with Isms (was 'male-identification') In-Reply-To: <8scoj9+r5l1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sd0fa+eoq4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3609 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > > As the daughter of a Vietnam vet, and the sweetheart of a man in > uniform, the idea that war is a necessary evil as long as we humans > have hierarchical tendencies is branded into my psyche. > > I was a pacifist as a teen until my father sat me down and explained > to me exactly how he felt coming home from Asia as a shell-shocked > nineteen year old and getting spat upon, jeered at, etc. Yes, the > war was stupid (as most wars are) and our men shouldn't have been > over there. But the people who should have gotten unclean bodily > fluids tossed upon them were in Washington. > > If the real world and Harry's world were like heaven, I'd say sure, > let's follow that passage in Isaiah, convert our weapons into farming > implements, and make love and not war. > > But neither world is so benign. Scale down the armed forces? You'd > better believe that the 21st century's answer to Hitler will come > knocking at out door. > > You may not mind World War III being fought in Britain or the United > States. But *I* do. I had really planned on staying out of all the political and other areas of discussion that are not Harry Potter related but I feel I must comment on this. First off I must say with all sincerity that I appreciate all the sacrifices that the soldiers AND their families have made for this great country of ours. I, for one, have always supported the Vietnam soldiers and feel a great disservice was done to them. I truly am grateful for your dad and others who went. There are many who share my sentiments. I also agree whole-heartedly with the statements concerning scaling down the armed forces. I have family members in the service at this moment, not to mention that my husband, parents, sister, and I have all served at one time (and many other family members). With all that is going on in the world I would hope we continue to support our men and women. They need are prayers and backing. Now if you truly believe all we have to do is have a little chat with these terrorists, then let me assure you.....well, to put it nicely, you are not in the real world. > > > I have no desire to punish white Anglo-Saxon Protestant men. The > fact that I am neither white nor Anglo-Saxon nor Protestant nor male > does not give me the right to sit in judgment of them. (The fact > that I believe that every unjust act is avenged by Someone eventually > helps a great deal with this Uh -oh. LOL I am somewhat in trouble now. I am: First and foremost a Christian (conservative Southern Baptist) Female (I bet everyone figured that out) White Conservative in Politics And I love the Harry Potter books and wish to discuss them if I am not thrown out for stating my opinions. I accidentally erased the parts you had about this being JKR's books. You are so right. We all have our own ideas of what happened and what we want to happen. Let's let JKR continue to write as she has....we are here because we like her writing. I hope we (including myself) don't expect too much of the future books that we are not able to enjoy them if they don't exactly follow our plans for the story and characters. > > Long live Harry Potter--the Boy Who Lived (and sparked controversy)! > > Ebony Yes, Yes, Yes. Martha From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 19:56:23 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:56:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT-computer history References: <8sb9nc+sue0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA0BE7.C1028D84@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3610 Susan McGee wrote: > > > Oh, it was Steve Jobs and Wozniak (can't remember his first name) who > > > worked in their basement. Anyway, the personal desktop computer was > > > the idea of 60s radicals who wanted to take the power of computing > > > away from the Pentagon and give it to the people. Very counter- > > > cultural and anti-bureaucratic. > > > > Shot that foot clean off, didn't they? > ??? Sorry, Amanda, what do you mean? An extreme form of "shooting oneself in the foot," an expression for injuring yourself when you were trying to do unto someone or something else. The goals of the PC inventors are rather amusing considering what the PC and its derivatives have grown to be. "Counter-cultural" and now it's fast becoming the dominant cultural determinant; "anti-bureaucratic" and it's the tool that let bureaucracies grow and thrive. I was commenting on the irony. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 20:08:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:08:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Off-Topic Stereotype Observations References: <8sbc9m+17pk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA0ED3.78547B07@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3611 Susan McGee wrote: > We should not denigrate men. Why did you get that from my post about > Starship Troopers? No, you didn't say that, just that since it mentioned a movie it reminded me of how they changed Jurassic Park to be p.c., too, having the little girl save the day. This is an old item of discussion in our house, because my husband, who went to college in the 60s, was shouted down in some sociology class or something when he suggested that it was not correct to balance years of male dominance by substutiting female dominance. His example was topless bars---if it's wrong for men to go and ogle scantily clad females, why is it okay for women to go watch male dancers? The ladies in the class had the "get even" mindset and totally missed his point, and I've found many female friends over the years who totally miss it, too. > I'm afraid I don't watch commercials so I can't comment, but I don't > support generalizations or stereotypes of any kind. Actually, radio commercials, sound bites, just about anything that modern media produces: switch the genders (or the races) in the exchange and ask yourself--would this form be acceptable? Would there be an outcry? Our latest favorite--the "World's Sexiest Bachelor" show they ran, presumably to balance the Miss America or Universe or whatever that also just ran. There was no complaint about the title "World's Sexiest Bachelor," but what about "World's Sexiest Woman" instead of Miss America...? Can you imagine the flak (justly so) from the women's groups? But Sexiest Bachelor is fine. Even greeting cards: I read a list of "humorous" cards that promoted males as idiots or worse (What do you do when a man says you're smothering him? Push down harder on the pillow); if the gender-roles were switched, they'd be banned. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 20:16:53 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:16:53 -0500 Subject: Movie News Message-ID: <39EA10B4.B060D759@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3612 Hi, all. I lifted the following from my weekly Alan Rickman newsletter. She's pretty reliable, so I thought I'd pass it along. --Amanda 1. HARRY POTTER UPDATE (ALAN RICKMAN AS SNAPE - IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN!) On 13th October, 2000, The Harry Potter Movie Website announced that Alan Rickman is definitely confirmed (again) as to star as Snape in the Harry Potter movie (in production). Their brief comment is: " In other casting news, Alan Rickman is DEFINITELY playing Snape, although he has not, as of yet, appeared on the set." Previously, the Harry Potter Movie Website had listed Alan Rickman as one of the many rumoured actors to be starring in this film. Indeed, at time of writing, they not updated the online cast of Harry Potter to reflect his confirmed status. You can read the full article at: http://harrypotter.eqrealm.com/news/101300a.html At present, the last few weeks have seen the Harry Potter film crew and cast popping up all over the UK filming the exterior scenes for the movie. However, the time is fast approaching when they will begin filming the scenes at "Hogwarts..." and that's where Snape enters Harry's life... ---------- There has, of course, been a lot of confusion over whether Alan Rickman will play Snape or not . Alan Rickman and Richard Harris were both confirmed by CNN on August 23rd as having signed onto star in the film, but since then, Richard Harris has very publicly pulled out after a collapse in negotiations over the form of payment he would get for his role in the film. And yet, newswire services such as Reuters, still report Richard Harris as starring in the film as a recent (8/10/00) article in the Daily Express proves... You can read the article at (it's not reproduced here as it has no real bearing on this newsletter): http://www.lineone.net/express/00/10/08/features/f0500-d.html ----------- In unrelated Harry Potter news, the British newspaper, The Evening Chronicle (Newcastle) 12/10/00), has reported that The Northern Film Commission hopes the recent filming in the North East of England will attract more films and tourists to the area (Eds Note: Recently, the HP crew have been filming the Hogwarts Station scenes in Yorkshire). Who said the movie industry doesnt have a positive impact???!! (Thank you, Georgiana for that little titbit). -------------------------------------- From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 15 20:21:47 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:21:47 -0500 Subject: OT Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: overweight References: <1.5.4.32.20001014230107.008895b0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <000f01c03643$f95e7600$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <39E9148E.600D2619@texas.net> Message-ID: <39EA11DB.12B4C0F6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3613 storm stanford wrote: > A villain per se must be taken seriously, and part of the whole overweight thing is they're not quite real people who can be truly respected or truly feared. > > --Amanda, whose daughter is a superb example of that last bit > > Amanda - I hope your daughter doesn't need to be feared! No. *I'm* overweight, and my five-year-old often seems to neither respect or fear *me,* thus proving my point..... : ) She's at that "attitude with feet" stage. > Later I was thinking, what if they'd been chinese, or lebanese - as they might have easily been given the area I live in - would I have found some other things to pick on them? I think it unlikely I would have picked racial grounds to dislike them. Unless they ate the dog....a perfectly justifiable racial reason to dislike someone... > storm (attempting to root out her predujices, even when they relate to blond, master-race, fundermentalist christans who mistreat thier dogs ...) So you have no problem with blond, master-race, fundamentalist Christian dog lovers? Sorry, I'm a bit loopy today. --Amanda From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Sun Oct 15 20:20:27 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:20:27 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters References: Message-ID: <017501c036e5$64cc5fa0$db3c073e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3614 ----- Original Message ----- From: Christina Gross To: Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 7:59 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] female characters > On 13.10.2000 at 23:43:09 Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > > >However, I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment of Harry Potter. > >Yes, it makes me uneasy sometimes as I see the long string of > >subordinate female characters. But I rather think that JKR is > >reproducing the world as it is, and not how it may be idealized by > >future visions of genuine equality. The only real sign of female > >equality seems to be the fact that Quidditch teams are not > >gender-biased. > > > > I can still enjoy the books, too, even if Rowling decides to have > only marginal and little developed female characters beside Hermione. > I simply wish she would be a bit more subversive when she reproduces > the world we are living in. She "gets them while they're young", so > to speak, and might have wanted to grab the opportunity to plant some > new images of females in her readers' heads. Nothing major. Let the > female Quidditch players not just be names that pop up now and then > but show that they can be just as ambitious and passionate about > their sport as Harry and Ron are. Stuff that goes unnoticed, but > settles in our minds and jumps out at us when we don't expect it. > > There was trace evidence of McGonagal's mentoring Hermione in all the > books, but after she really emerged as a mentor in the beginning of > PoA it just fizzled away. The picture of McGonagal that just pops up > first in my mind is her in a robe and hairnet, scolding people for > being out of bed at inappropriate times. Only later I think of her > wizarding abilities and the wry sense of humor she shows went she > comments on Professor Trelawney. > > Cho Chang was a similar dissapointment. She first appeared as a > competent Quidditch Seeker in CoS, doing her best to make up for her > inferior broom when playing against Harry, but then she was quickly > reduced to the part of "possible date and crush target". > > And don't get me started on Fleur..... > > However, I think the developement of Molly Weasley in GoF and the > appearance of Headmistress What-Was-Her-Name-Again give reason to > hope. Although it bugged me that Molly didn't go to the Quidditch > World Cup with no explanation given (or did I just miss it?). IIRC, Molly was off to Diagon Alley to get everyone's school robes, dress robes, potion ingredients and books -- however, whether she got landed with the job, or whether she was using it as an excuse to escape the quidditch and have some quality time to herself browsing the shops is a matter for conjecture. Alix From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 20:41:35 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:41:35 -0000 Subject: bookends Message-ID: <8sd4pv+dfko@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3615 Thanks to Penny, Heather, and Alix for your info and help. I'd be very surprised if any of the sets were 'no longer being made', as I've not heard that any are limited edition----are they? There were a number of sets available on ebay, but the bids are really getting up there, plus most of the sellers are asking an extra $8.00 for shipping(!), so I don't think I'll be going that route. There was a set of 'The Fat Lady' BEs, (I really like them too), the seller said they were bought at Hallmark. They're really cute-- the first has the fat lady portrait open and Harry entering, and the second has Hermione entering the common room and Ron already inside, sitting in a chair. Same problem with Herm's hair, though. It's a light brown in this one, and not bushy. Is it ever mentioned what shade of brown her hair is? I've always pictured it as fairly dark brown, and bushy/curly. Don't know if it's stated, or if I made the 'dark- brown' part up. I guess what I must do is start hitting the WB and Hallmark stores. Besides, I really want that snitch keychain, and I want to see the sorting hat one, too; maybe I'll get both. Thanks again, everyone. Kelley From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 21:06:52 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:06:52 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bookends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sd69c+srme@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3616 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > Check out http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com > > They have some lovely merchandise, and they'll be getting bookends soon. When they come in, I think I'm ordering a set. It shows Harry entering the common room through the Pink Lady portrait. It's quite cute. Voicelady, I'm sorry I didn't include my thanks to you in my last post. I went to the site you gave, and they do have some great things. They have the smaller coffee mugs, yay!, I really like the 'Journey to Hogwarts' one. Plus, I love that Hogwarts wall- hanging crest, it's beautiful. The prices seem a tad on the high side, though, and apparently the bookends are available at Hallmark stores. I'm going to get myself to the mall, pronto. I've bookmarked that site to keep abreast of the new merchandise. They even have an HP lunchbox :o]... Kelley From mmarth at peoplepc.com Sun Oct 15 21:07:44 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:07:44 -0000 Subject: Movie News In-Reply-To: <39EA10B4.B060D759@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sd6b0+41kk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3617 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > --Amanda > > 1. HARRY POTTER UPDATE (ALAN RICKMAN AS SNAPE - IT'S > GOING TO HAPPEN!) > > On 13th October, 2000, The Harry Potter Movie Website > announced that Alan Rickman is definitely confirmed > (again) as to star as Snape in the Harry Potter movie > (in production). Their brief comment is: > > " In other casting news, Alan Rickman is DEFINITELY > playing Snape, although he has not, as of yet, > appeared on the set." > > I guess I am one of the few who believe that Rickman is just way too old to play Snape. I just love the guy but am very disappointed with his as the choice. I don't even know if I am going to see the movie but I would love to see some pictures of the main characters. I doubt if that will happen. Guess we will just have to look at those pillars and the school room. I saw David Bowie on TV yesterday. Now put a black wig on that guy and take off quite a few years and he would make a great Snape. Martha From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 15 21:19:55 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:19:55 EDT Subject: Bookends Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3618 No problem! I think I'll order the lunchbox in addition to the bookends. I'd say that eventually they would have an extremely high asking price on ebay, except I'm never planning on getting rid of anything! -------------------------------------------------------------- Voicelady, I'm sorry I didn't include my thanks to you in my last post. I went to the site you gave, and they do have some great things. They have the smaller coffee mugs, yay!, I really like the 'Journey to Hogwarts' one. Plus, I love that Hogwarts wall- hanging crest, it's beautiful. The prices seem a tad on the high side, though, and apparently the bookends are available at Hallmark stores. I'm going to get myself to the mall, pronto. I've bookmarked that site to keep abreast of the new merchandise. They even have an HP lunchbox :o]... From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 15 21:36:22 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:36:22 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's age Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001015213622.00898314@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3619 At 21:07 10/15/2000 -0000, Martha wrote: >I guess I am one of the few who believe that Rickman is just way too >old to play Snape. I just love the guy but am very disappointed with >his as the choice. I don't even know if I am going to see the movie >but I would love to see some pictures of the main characters. I >doubt if that will happen. Guess we will just have to look at those >pillars and the school room. >I saw David Bowie on TV yesterday. Now put a black wig on that guy >and take off quite a few years and he would make a great Snape. Rickman is 54 and David Bowie, incidentally, is a year younger. So, Rickman is a tiny bit old, but I think he'll look reasonably mid-40s if they dye his hair black. BTW, he features on the latest Texas video, tangoing with Sharleen (sp?) Spiteri on a petrol station forecourt and I have to say he looks a bit jowly these days. He was quite sexy in "Truly. Madly, Deeply". Remind me: How old should Snape be anyway? I'm useless at timelines. I also checked Maggie Smith's age for the record - she's 66. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 21:43:12 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:43:12 -0000 Subject: Bookends In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sd8dg+dt47@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3620 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > No problem! > > I think I'll order the lunchbox in addition to the bookends. I'd say that eventually they would have an extremely high asking price on ebay, except I'm never planning on getting rid of anything! > -------------------------------------------------------------- Ha ha! Same here, I want to ~keep~ it all. I can't imagine paying those ebay prices; the only way would be for a collector who's missing one or two items that absolutely will not be available anywhere else. That is not my situation (not enough $$$). And, if no one else carries that wall-hanging, I just might get it--if I can afford it, that is. The more I look at it, the more I like it. Maybe I'll just include all this stuff in my letter to Santa... ;oD Kelley From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 21:55:11 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:55:11 -0000 Subject: Snape's age In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001015213622.00898314@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8sd93v+kt39@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3621 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > Rickman is 54 and David Bowie, incidentally, is a year younger. So, Rickman> is a tiny bit old, but I think he'll look reasonably mid-40s if they dye his> hair black. BTW, he features on the latest Texas video, tangoing with> Sharleen (sp?) Spiteri on a petrol station forecourt and I have to say he> looks a bit jowly these days. He was quite sexy in "Truly. Madly, Deeply". > > Remind me: How old should Snape be anyway? I'm useless at timelines. > > I also checked Maggie Smith's age for the record - she's 66. > > Neil > > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > ***************************************** I don't think there's any info in the books to give us a precise age, but it seems everyone's best guess would put the Marauder generation at about their mid- to late-thirties. Rickman's age was my only worry about him, too, considering the other actors filling the Marauder roles will have to look of a similar age. He's always looked (to me) around ten years or so younger than his actual age, but I haven't seen him lately. Will have to keep an eye out for that video. Where did you see it? BTW, I've always pictured McG about that age (66), despite references to her 'black hair'. I'm very pleased that Maggie Smith is in that role. Kelley No catchy online name From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 15 22:36:38 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:36:38 -0000 Subject: The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: In-Reply-To: <051201c03325$c90c31c0$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8sdbhm+tb36@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3622 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Its also reminiscent for ancient history fans of the Roman Emperor Septimus> Severus (who reigned from 193-211) > > I just checked out my e-text of Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall to get the> dates of his reign, and, re-reading some of the text, it turns out my> allusion was even more apt than I first suspected. At the beginning of> Chapter Six, Gibbon tells us "Severus was passionately addicted to the vain> studies of magic and divination, deeply versed in the interpretation of> dreams and omens, and perfectly acquainted with the science of judicial astrology...." > > - CMC I'll have to go check out 'Decline and Fall'. I found a little info on Severus that I posted on hpanon a while back, but didn't find the info about magic. Here's what I posted: --- In harrypotteranonymous at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > I found a little info on the name Severus. This may be another > source of his name. Found on this site: http://www.roman- > empire.net/decline/sept-severus-index.html > Some of this is a little paraphrased, but all this info comes from > the above site. These are just some choice bits. > > Lucius Septimius Severus, 145-211 AD, Roman Emperor. "...he is > renowned for his cruelty and ruthlessness. Severus was careful of > everything that he desired, but careless of what was said about > him. ...in a very close fought battle, that hung in the balance for > some time -- Severus, having been thrown from his horse, even saw fit to conceal his identity until matters improved." (paraphrasing > here): Severus' side won, his foe fled to Lyons where he, unable to escape, committed suicide. In an act of cruelty which appears very descriptive of a man of Severus' nature, Severus had the naked body of his dead foe laid out on the ground before riding over it with his horse. His foe's name was Clodius Albinus. Severus was not a man to forgive and forget. In Rome, some 29 senators and equestrians lost their lives for having backed one of the losing sides. The Parthians, who had supported Pescennius Niger, who lost, were the next to endure his punishment. The ensuing warfare culminated in the fall of their capitol Ctesiphon, in AD 197-198. All the menfolk were killed and the women and children - some 100,000 in total - sent into slavery. He is also known for the reconstruction, in stone, of Hadrian's Wall from AD 208-211. In AD 211 he fell fatally ill at Ebucarum (York) where he died at the age of 66. The last three years of his life were spent in Britain. > > Not a nice guy. Interesting how close Albinus is to Albus. The > article has a bit more info, esp. about the battles, how he became > Emperor, etc. So, does it seem this may have had any influence over > the name of Snape? Maybe, maybe not. And, Blaise, this sure sounds > like an origin for the word severe to me. ;o] > > Kelley We are talking about the same guy, right? Unfortunately, this site didn't include the 'magic' info, at least the parts I read. BTW, LOVED your Death Eater song-- what a brilliant twisted mind... Kelley From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 15 22:45:11 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:45:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's age Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001015224511.0088c518@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3623 At 21:55 10/15/2000 -0000, Kelley wrote (on Snape's age): >I don't think there's any info in the books to give us a precise age, >but it seems everyone's best guess would put the Marauder generation >at about their mid- to late-thirties. .... Will have to keep an eye out for that video. Where did you see it? Hmmm. I thought 40-odd would be pushing it. The Texas vid? It's been doing the rounds, but I guess MTV and VH1 will show it to death. Sharleen was asked who she'd most like to tango with in the video and she picked her dream man: Alan Rickman. He does look a bit like someone's Dad dancing with his daughter's best friend - those close-ups aren't kind. It's amazing what make-up and special effects can do these days, so I don't think we should worry *too* much about any of the people cast. Overall, the cast is looking great, in my opinion. I hope Julie Walters accepts the Molly Weasley role and does it with her Liverpool accent. Mind you, I think I'm right in saying that Molly's supposed to be older than Snape... Neil >No catchy online name That's okay - not eveyone has to be as sad as me. Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 15 22:51:30 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:51:30 -0000 Subject: The Trouble with Isms (long reply) In-Reply-To: <8scoj9+r5l1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sdcdi+iktp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3624 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > I've had to be quiet for the past few days... there's been a lot in > my mailbox from this group that I have strong opinions about. Wow, Ebony, you wrote a nice long thoughtful post for #3600, a nice round number. > By no means do I want my replies to get me banned from the list... Does ANYONE get banned from this list, except for the anonymous person who posted (paraphrase) 'Harry POtter is stupid and you will all die"? > PACIFISM > I was a pacifist as a teen until my father sat me down and > explained to me exactly how he felt coming home from Asia as a > shell-shocked nineteen year old and getting spat upon, jeered at, > etc. People who attacked returning soldiers were NOT REAL PACIFISTS. Real pacifists recognize that the soldiers are just as much victims of the war as civilian refugees and causualties are. There was an anti-World-War-1 socialist pacifist slogan: "A bayonet is a weapon with a worker on each end" and even General Patton said 'make the other poor bastard die for HIS country'. Even in WW1, people knew about 'shell shock', called 'battle fatigue' in WWII, and now recognized as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. > Yes, the [Vietnam] war was stupid (as most wars are) and our men > shouldn't have been over there. My pacifism is a sentiment rather than an ideology: I am a big supporter of USA having joined the Allies in World War 2 to fight against evil (Hitler) for the sake of both virtue AND national interest (the Americas's 'ocean moat' wouldn't be much protection if the other 3 continents were all conquered by an empire with bomber planes and eventually nuclear weapons). American soldiers fought (and died in great numbers) for a worthy cause. But German combat soldiers, who may have hated Hitler, but had been drafted, fought and died in a very similar environment. I'm afraid that there's no one old enough to remember World War 2 on this list (I was born in 1957, 12 years after it ended). I remember, back in 1980 before PSYCH TODAY went sleazey, the then-long-time editor wrote a piece on the mystery of staying the same person for a whole lifetime, in which he made a remark about the 19-year-old killer at the Battle of the Bulge being the same person as the new great-grandfather hugging the baby. Get that. "The nineteen year old killer". He said that, not me, and he had the right to say it, because it was himself. I never meant to suggest that all killing is murder, but that killing, even in a good cause, is psychologically stressful. The combat soldier has to learn to put up with that psychological stress, which is said to be a kind of toughening up. Me, I am such a wimp (which is what I was referring to when I called myself pacifist) that I don't believe that I could ever learn that toughness. So I meant to imply that my theories about Snape (that he didn't INTEND to join the Death Eaters and was repelled by DE murders) could be highly inaccurate (and perhaps even unfair to Snape) by assuming that he has the same wimpiness that I do. HARRY POTTER BOOKS > I find it interesting that while it's okay to chastise JKR for not > having more female characters in the limelight, members were shot > down at the Yahoo site for: 1) saying that Harry Potter should be > more ethnically diverse (the comment was that the ethnic characters > were similarly marginalized), and 2) identifying the House-Elves > with enslaved African Americans. I haven't seen those members > around here lately. I recall that many different e-mail-lists that I've been on have had conversations where one person wishes there was more ethnic diversity in HP and other people replied by listing the diverse ethnicities of some of the characters. I recall one discussion on the old list about the House Elves' dialect being similar to minstrel show dialect, which led into a discussion of how badly the upperclass English treated their servants in the 19th century. I don't remember anyone being shot down?? If people were shot down then and not shot down now, maybe the reason is that the people who did the shooting then have left the list now, or learned to be more careful of their words. > Nor does my so-called "double minority" status give me the right to > force my personal ideologies on any other human being, or condemn > them for not embracing them as their own. The problem, and it has nothing to do with whether you or I is in an oppressed group or a privileged group, is Good and Evil. Respecting Draco's right of free speech to call Hermione a Mudblood and threaten Harry what will be done to him when You-Know-You takes over doesn't mean that his evil ideology deserves to be respected. The trouble is that everyone either believes or claims to believe that their issue is a matter of Good and Evil -- the Nazis claimed that they were the forces of Good and all the people they were killing were the forces of Evil who needed to be eliminated in defense of Good. So Tolerance is a virtue for which I have only limited respect: I don't think that Evil should be tolerated. I like to use Abolition as my example when I talk about politics, because it is just about the only issue of contention in American history that has actually been settled. An abolitionist who believed that it is totally immoral to hold human beings in slavery, and totally cruel and unfair to the enslaved humans, would not be (and was not) satisfied by winning a compromise that no new slaves would be imported to USA but the slaves already here and their descendents would remain enslaved. How Intolerant of that Abolitionist, how disrespectful of the opposing viewpoint. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 15 23:21:41 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:21:41 -0000 Subject: Off-Topic Stereotype Observations In-Reply-To: <39EA0ED3.78547B07@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sde65+chnm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3625 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > my husband, who went to college in the 60s, was shouted down in > some sociology class or something when he suggested that it was > not correct to balance years of male dominance by substutiting > female dominance. Why is it that SEVERAL people have encountered those women who argue for female dominance, but *I* never have? I feel left out. > His example was topless bars---if it's wrong for men to go and ogle > scantily clad females, why is it okay for women to go watch male > dancers? Why is there anything wrong with any adult watching adult erotic dancers of their attractive gender, or even not of their attractive gender? > Even greeting cards: I read a list of "humorous" cards that > promoted males as idiots or worse (What do you do when a man says > you're smothering him? Push down harder on the pillow); if the > gender-roles were switched, they'd be banned. I have seen similar greeting cards insulting women marketted to men. Not banned. "Humor" among married men about wives being nags, spendthrifts, fat, etc and among married women about husbands being slobs, drunks, lechers, etc goes way, way back, to a time long before feminism. I don't like that kind of humor, but I imagine that it serves as a relief valve for the pressure that people feel when they have to conform themselves to a limited social role (such as the manly-man role or the womanly-woman role). From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 15 23:21:15 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:21:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: female characters - very long and very opinionated References: <8sb2fh+ei9g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA3BEB.7B7DCFAA@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3626 Hi -- Susan McGee wrote: > Well, I disagree. If she were friends with girls at Hogwarts, we'd > know. No, not necessarily. The stories are from *Harry's* PoV. We are not going to see whatever goes on in the girls' dormitories. She does not seem to have *close* relationships with her roommates or even Ginny. But, that does NOT mean she doesn't have *any* female friends or that she has less respect for the entire gender. > This stance stems from the idea that men are better, and that women > are lesser. I cannot imagine that Hermione falls into this category. I have a very hard time believing that Hermione of all people would think women were lesser beings in any way. That seems completely antithetical to everything we know about her. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd love to hear it. But, the simple of matter of her having 2 male best friends is not enough evidence for that sort of assertion in my mind. I do not think she's "male-identified" under your definition of that term. > She would continue to be decent, and kind-hearted but IF we accept > JKR's portrayal of Lavendar or Parvil as giggly, then she'd be bored > stiff. She hangs out with Harry because they are fun and she has > adventures with them. That doesn't mean she thinks *all* women are lesser & fall into the Lavender/Pavarti giggly category. I can't imagine that she has anything but respect for McGonagall for example. Susan -- I had another email to the group from you this morning that had alot of quoted text from one of my messages yesterday. I didn't see anything new added from you -- all I saw was the quoted text from my own message. Did I miss something? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 15 23:27:31 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:27:31 -0000 Subject: The Name Severus (was Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: In-Reply-To: <8sdbhm+tb36@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sdeh3+4elk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3627 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > Lucius Septimius Severus, 145-211 AD, Roman Emperor. > this sure sounds like an origin for the word severe to me. ;o] (beside the name Albinus, I noticed the name Lucius up there) I don't know, but I think that Severus was named from the (Latin version of the) word 'severe' rather than the other way around. Just a coincidence that the name suited him so well. A counterexample is the emperor Commodius. His name (related to 'accommodating') means pleasant and easy to get along with, but he himself was a big monster. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 15 23:34:16 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:34:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith (Long) References: <1.5.4.32.20001014212512.00a03638@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <00b401c03700$6f715580$cac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3628 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Ward" To: Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith (Long) > > Sins are sins, mild or severe, but virtues are qualities which can be good > under control and damaging in excess. Well ,that's where the virtue of "prudence" comes in......"The virtues incline toward stupidity," wrote Nietzsche. But he also wrote, "One is best punished for one's virtues" Outstanding essay, Peg - look forward to the next six. - CMC From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 15 23:38:41 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:38:41 -0000 Subject: Big Black Dog Message-ID: <8sdf61+enl0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3629 The lady who was wondering where to buy a big black dog stuffed toy (I expect the local yuppie children's toy store: Steiff makes very realistic life-size animals, like a giraffe photographed among the other giraffes in the giraffe enclosure at the zoo when I was a kid, but Steiff stuffies are hard and not cuddly, so you'd probably prefer some other brand). might be interested in the following Xmas stocking: http://www.whalesdirect.com/product.html?t_q=CM091 From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 15 23:48:18 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:48:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A request, please... References: <8s5t7s+l4a5@eGroups.com> <004b01c034cb$8e026160$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <011501c03702$65597e40$cac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3630 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Rogers" To: Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] A request, please... > Re: Lots of Topics > > > > I read this, and got excited (or the ones that say long post, or the like), then scroll down and find out that it's just one subject with a paragraph's worth of an answer to someone else's comment. > > I admit, I am guilty as well, and I will try to be better about it in the future; but if we all can work together, it'll be easier (less frustrating). I have to remember to change that subject line to relate to what I am typing about, not to just blindly click reply, cause it is frustrating. (Neil, have I annoyed you and Nick yet terribly with that habit? Or Penny and Melanie?) > > > > I guess there's alot of things I forget every now and again, and I want to ask forgiveness. I don't always remember to combine my posts, thus making me an uberposter, but that does hurt those who download their mail or read it online as it takes longer. It's also more mail in the mailbox, and I know that some folks are using their accounts at work for this egroup. > > > > I promise to try to improve. If I slip, would you mind pointing it out to me? I wouldn't mind, trust me! > > > > THANKS! > > Dee > > > > :) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Oct 15 23:58:46 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:58:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] After a Dementors Kiss - Now what? lots of questions References: <3kkjussa3tj3412edfegicptm2nsdjkgrb@4ax.com> Message-ID: <013a01c03703$db93cce0$cac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3631 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monika Huebner" To: Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] After a Dementors Kiss - Now what? lots of questions > On Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:07:11 +1000, "storm stanford" > wrote: > > > Now, this is a very interesting question. I have always wondered how > dementors reproduced, but the dementor's kiss could be their way to > "create" new dementors. Are dementors male, or are there any females? > I doubt it, I always thought of them as asexual beings. I think a > person that received the dementor's kiss will act like a zombie and > perhaps really change into a dementor after a while. This isn't a direct response to the question, but the Dementors - although they are usually drawn to resemble The Ghost of Xmas Yet to Come - remind somewhat of the supremely uncanny "Great Race" of HP Lovecraft's "The Shadow out of Time." The resemblance is neither one of physical appearence, or of intellectual prowess (The Great Race, however, possess an intelligence far beyond the human, which the Dementors apparently do not possess) - rather, it lies in the intensely unsettling impressions that these beings make on the protagonists of both literary works, as well as upon the reader. - CMC - CMC From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Oct 15 23:53:00 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:53:00 -0000 Subject: female characters In-Reply-To: <39EA3BEB.7B7DCFAA@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sdg0s+uroh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3632 When I was a kid in the fifties, I used to wonder why the "kid escapes into a world of magic and adventure" stories were always about *girls*. Alice, Dorothy, Wendy, Lucy... I think Harry provides a little gender balance, myself. Pippin From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Sun Oct 15 23:53:12 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:53:12 GMT Subject: OT Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: overweight Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3633 > > --Amanda, whose daughter is a superb example of that last bit > > Amanda - I hope your daughter doesn't need to be feared! No. *I'm* overweight, and my five-year-old often seems to neither respect or fear *me,* thus proving my point..... : ) She's at that "attitude with feet" stage. ok sorry I missed that - you obviously aren't beating her *hard* enough (ok, I'm starting to run now ..... don't forget you all know what I really think about child abuse as I've gone on and on and on and on about it) > storm (attempting to root out her predujices, even when they relate to blond, master-race, fundermentalist christans who mistreat thier dogs ...) So you have no problem with blond, master-race, fundamentalist Christian dog lovers? they don't love the dog, she is an expendable object in thier lives (splutter) as to the problem well, maybe one day, as yet I still do .... if I could just find one good thing about them to make them into ppl not *only* blond, master race fundermentalist christians then maybe I could get over it More seriously I did mean to bring this back On topic with contrasting how Hagrid "is simply too big to be allowed" is a good charactor (and size is not his defining characotist - though his poor cooking may be :-) and Dubdders "roughly the size of a killer whale" is not good and the main thing we know about him is his size. So think I was trying to support your argument. I think. but then I got distracted by the dog. Sorry, I'm a bit loopy today. --Amanda hey - me too storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 15 23:57:21 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:57:21 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 15 month olds References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <006201c036cf$44762ee0$f743ddcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39EA4461.66A5DF9B@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3634 lrcjestes wrote: > > I have a 19 month old who really didn't start walking until 17 months...he > was hell on knees though, so he really didn't see any advantage to > walking...until he did it then he was off to the races....so its not out of > the question that he was not walking. My 19mo is not a big talker > either...his most distinct words are "tank you"....which is very > pleasent....but then he has 2 older brothers to talk for him....what I've > always had a problem with was Dummbledore and McG leaving Harry on the > doorstep. At 15 months he could have gotten out of his basket and just > crawled off into the night, even if he wasn't walking! MAybe one of them > stayed behind to make sure he didn't, but....hmmmmm I've read a few articles which say that non-firstborns tend to talk (and walk) later, just for that reason - the older sibs are there to talk for them (and translate - I see it with Harry when he's around his 4 & 6 year old "friends") and get things for them so they don't *have* to walk. RE: the basket thing - I've always assumed they put a charm on him which would keep him sleeping until someone opened the door. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 16 00:06:36 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:06:36 -0500 Subject: Musical Tastes of Dumbledore & Flamel References: <20001013002359.1608.qmail@web1504.mail.yahoo.com> <39E678FA.47F5CD46@texas.net> Message-ID: <017e01c03704$f3fb3f60$cac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3635 We learn in HP-SS Chapter Six that Albus Dumbledore enjoys chamber music, while in Chapter 13 Nicholas Flamel is noted as an opera lover as well as an alchemist. Does the wizarding world have its very own professional composers of serious music, or do they listen to the same composers that Muggles-music lovers identify as the Masters? Or were the great composers also wizards? The best definition of music I know is by the composer Ferruccio Busoni: "Music is myth, metaphysics, and magic." - CMC From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Oct 16 00:15:24 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:15:24 -0000 Subject: Musical Tastes of Dumbledore & Flamel In-Reply-To: <017e01c03704$f3fb3f60$cac54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8sdhas+a12e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3636 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Does the wizarding world have its very own professional composers of serious > music, or do they listen to the same composers that Muggles-music lovers > identify as the Masters? Or were the great composers also wizards? > > The best definition of music I know is by the composer Ferruccio Busoni: > "Music is myth, metaphysics, and magic." > > - CMC It's difficult to imagine why wizards would have their own 'popular' artists, like Celestina Warbeck and The Weird Sisters, but not their own 'serious' ones. That does not mean that people like Dumbledore wouldn't enjoy playing music by Muggle composers. I expect Dumbledore has a harpsichord which is similar to mine, except that * his* stays magically in tune (sigh). Harpsichordists spend half their time tuning, and the rest of it playing out of tune. Pippin From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 16 00:26:24 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:26:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: References: <8sdbhm+tb36@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000e01c03707$b81bc3e0$cac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3637 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelley " To: Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:36 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > Its also reminiscent for ancient history fans of the Roman Emperor > Septimus> Severus (who reigned from 193-211) > > > > I just checked out my e-text of Edward Gibbon's Decline and Fall to > get the> dates of his reign, and, re-reading some of the text, it > turns out my> allusion was even more apt than I first suspected. At > the beginning of> Chapter Six, Gibbon tells us "Severus was > passionately addicted to the vain> studies of magic and divination, > deeply versed in the interpretation of> dreams and omens, and > perfectly acquainted with the science of judicial astrology...." > > > > - CMC > > I'll have to go check out 'Decline and Fall'. I found a little info > on Severus that I posted on hpanon a while back, but didn't find the > info about magic. Here's what I posted: > > We are talking about the same guy, right? Unfortunately, this site > didn't include the 'magic' info, at least the parts I read. > Yes, we are! - the info on Emperor Severus' interest in magic is in Gibbon, Chapter 6, second paragraph. Unfortunately, thats' the only information Gibbon provides on the magic angle. Perhaps some of the contemporary classical sources would give more detail - CMC From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Oct 16 00:21:53 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:21:53 +0100 Subject: Posting - subject lines etc (response to Dee) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001016002153.0089c454@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 3638 I'm assuming Caius Marcius pressed reply without saying anything and repeated Dee's earlier post. Anyway, Dee had said:- >I have to remember to change that subject line to relate to what I am typing >about, not to just blindly click reply, cause it is frustrating. (Neil, >have I annoyed you and Nick yet terribly with that habit? Or Penny and >Melanie?) Oh dear. Do I seem particularly irritated by such things? I'm sure everyone gets annoyed if the subject line of a message isn't relevant. Personally, I'm not so keen on the combining of topics in one post, but we did agree to do that because of the sheer volume of posting. It makes scanning for the FAQs more difficult if, for example, an interesting comment on Snape is buried in a post labelled "Re: Re: My back yard (OT)" A couple of other points, which I hope Penny and Melanie would support (and they are the Moderators here for those who didn't know that):- - I don't think it's necessary to include a mile long original when making a reply of a few lines; - When replying to someone else, it's worth naming the person who made the original comments and indicating what they were saying (cutting out anything irrelevant if possible); - Um. Make sure you type something before hitting reply . BTW, I'm not claiming to be perfect myself and I think most people here are pretty careful. Occasionally, though, there are posts where it's really hard to tell who said what about what, and when. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From catlady at wicca.net Mon Oct 16 00:45:10 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:45:10 -0000 Subject: Musical Tastes of Dumbledore & Flamel In-Reply-To: <017e01c03704$f3fb3f60$cac54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8sdj2m+bc2t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3639 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > The best definition of music I know is by the composer Ferruccio > Busoni: "Music is myth, metaphysics, and magic." He left out mathematics. I think you weren't around when some people were inspired by Dumbledore's reaction to singing the school song at the Arrival Feast in Book 1: "Ah, music, a magic above all we teach here." They were saying, suppose he meant it literally, suppose the way to dissolve Voldemort is to sing harmonies with the Phoenix. From donnadr at gte.net Mon Oct 16 01:43:49 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:43:49 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading SS (American version)/Vampires References: <8s8p47+pvnc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b601c03712$8ab91be0$bea2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3640 I read Bram Stoker's Dracula and it scared me half to death. The movie that came closest was a made-for-TV one with Louis Jordan as the vampire Dracula. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 12:57 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading SS (American version)/Vampires AND, who has read Bram Stoker's Dracula..now THERE is a powerful book! Susan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Oct 16 01:13:48 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:13:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR's sex bias References: Message-ID: <39EA564B.D0C91EAF@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3641 voicelady wrote: > We know that JKR wrote these stories for herself, but OF COURSE her main objective was in getting them published so that other people could enjoy them, too. And I wonder if subconsciously she made the story more geared to boys than girls. Statistically speaking, girls are bigger readers than boys, and there is less of a social stigma for a girl to read a "boy" book. I think it's quite possible that she wrote it from a boy's POV simply to appeal to more readers. Hmm. Well, I've listened to her discuss this very point in an interview; can't remember which one. She had the vision of Harry while stuck on a train, and I'm sure you've heard that story before. She said that she very quickly fleshed out the basic bones of the story--she had a lot of it before she even left the train. Speaking from personal experience, intuitive flashes can be like that. She wrote for about six months, she said, and then it occurred to her for the first time that hey, why not write the central protagonist as a girl? And, she says, she tried to, but she couldn't because Harry as Harry had become too real to her for her to arbitrarily change his gender. The story, as it had welled up inside of herself, wouldn't let her. She also says that she was perplexed by the publisher's request that she be named "J.K. Rowling," and that the reason they gave her was that "girls read boys' books, but not vice versa, and the boys are more likely to ignore it if they think it's written by a woman, so let's just use your initials. That was the publisher's idea, not hers; the idea hadn't even occurred to her. So, based on J.K. Rowling's account, she wasn't thinking about "what the market wants" vis a vis gender issues when she wrote it. She was thinking about, as she puts it, "writing for myself." And, based on my own experience with intuitive flashes, and the way subsequent writing works (see, e.g., the author's afterward to my second novel), I would tend to believe her. Of course, no one can tell what she was doing subconsciously; that's the job of future generations of biographers and graduate students in literature analyzing her work. Peg From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 01:48:58 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:48:58 -0000 Subject: The Trouble with Isms (long reply) In-Reply-To: <8sdcdi+iktp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sdmqa+9369@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3642 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > Does ANYONE get banned from this list, except for the anonymous > person who posted (paraphrase) 'Harry POtter is stupid and you will > all die"? Man, am I glad I wasn't around at that time!!! > Martha From donnadr at gte.net Mon Oct 16 01:50:45 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:50:45 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: books / movies References: <8s8q1d+g2m4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00be01c03713$821822a0$bea2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 3643 Hi Susan....sorry it took me so long to get back to you -- my cockatiel bit through my mouse cord. Patrick played Gurney Hallick, one of Paul Atreades teachers. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 1:13 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: books / movies plus Patrick Stewart is also in it. Who did Patrick Stewart plaY/ > > The book was absolutely wonderful Dune is an outstanding book and I think everybody should read it. The sequels got worse and worse, and I remember the movie as being not so good (Sting was in it?) Susan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 01:57:25 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:57:25 -0000 Subject: Snape's age In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001015224511.0088c518@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8sdna5+6vm5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3644 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > At 21:55 10/15/2000 -0000, Kelley wrote (on Snape's age): > > > dream man: Alan Rickman. He does look a bit like someone's Dad dancing with > his daughter's best friend - those close-ups aren't kind. > > It's amazing what make-up and special effects can do these days, so I don't > think we should worry *too* much about any of the people cast. > Neil Those close-ups aren't kind? What make-up and special effects can do these days? And I shouldn't be worried? lol I think of Snape as mid-30's. Lupin was described as quite young. I tend to think the Potter's married young and had Harry at a young age. Molly would be quite a bit older than Snape. > From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 02:06:11 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:06:11 -0000 Subject: After a Dementors Kiss - Now what? lots of questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sdnqj+8c1h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3645 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" wrote: > > But what about the ppl who lose their soul at once? What happens to them? We > are told that it is "worse than death" but what does that mean? What does it > mean to loose one's soul - ones connected-ness to other beings? will to > live? one's memory? other things. I don't know exactly what they are. Just some kind of creature, I guess. As soon as I read the part where Barty Crouch Jr. was given that lovely kiss, I thought we would see him again. I just picture that once Voldemort gets the dementors on his side there is a way to get that person's soul (or whatever) back into them. Did that make any sense? I am not thinking very well right now!!! I just know I wouldn't want to be around them. I expect we will see quite a bit of them in the next books. Martha > > From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 02:04:13 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:04:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: female characters References: <8sdg0s+uroh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA621D.9BE6157@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3646 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > When I was a kid in the fifties, I used to wonder why the "kid > escapes into a world of magic and adventure" stories were always about > *girls*. > Alice, Dorothy, Wendy, Lucy... I think Harry provides a little > gender balance, myself. I'll second that, too, now that I think of it. The Disney store (an oft-requested destination) is chock-full of "girl stuff" (pink soccerballs, little school kits, jewelry, etc.) but not nearly so much stuff appropriate for boys. *ahem* boys who aren't into dinosaurs. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 02:10:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:10:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: books / movies References: <8s8q1d+g2m4@eGroups.com> <00be01c03713$821822a0$bea2173f@donnadozier> Message-ID: <39EA639D.BA4E1234@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3647 Donna Rae wrote: > Hi Susan....sorry it took me so long to get back to you -- my cockatiel bit through my mouse cord. Donna, thank you so much for so clearly illustrating that I am not the only one who has an, um, interesting life. Here I thought having a baby who insisted (loudly) on keeping a pack of infant suppositories in his hands, everywhere, for three days was weird (the looks from passersby were...). --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 02:16:47 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:16:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Off-Topic Stereotype Observations References: <8sde65+chnm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA650F.66998F13@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3648 Rita Winston wrote: > Why is it that SEVERAL people have encountered those women who argue > for female dominance, but *I* never have? I feel left out. Well, the ones in his classes are now out there in their 50s someplace; I don't know the age you "run with".... : ) > Why is there anything wrong with any adult watching adult erotic > dancers of their attractive gender, or even not of their attractive > gender? Hmmm. I wasn't trying to make a judgement call either way. The point I was trying to make is that these same women who were saying female bars were bad and were exploitative, were saying the male bars for women were justified, and not seeing the hypocrisy. They definitely had a "get even" viewpoint. > I have seen similar greeting cards insulting women marketted to men. > Not banned. "Humor" among married men about wives being nags, > spendthrifts, fat, Couldn't you have picked a stereotype characteristic that *doesn't* fit me? --Amanda, fat nagging spendthrift. Sigh. From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 02:21:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:21:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3649 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > A strong woman type whose profession is being a wife and mother and > loving every minute of it and wouldn't give a hoot if all the > characters in the book were men and who thinks women sure do over > react about many things and.......isn't this about Harry Potter? If I can find a sitter, I'd like to treat you to a donut for that wonderful summation! --Amanda A fellow professional wife and mother (and an editor on the side) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 02:26:08 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:26:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR's sex bias References: Message-ID: <39EA6740.759ECFEB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3650 voicelady wrote: > We know that JKR wrote these stories for herself, but OF COURSE her main objective was in getting them published so that other people could enjoy them, too. And I wonder if subconsciously she made the story more geared to boys than girls. Statistically speaking, girls are bigger readers than boys, and there is less of a social stigma for a girl to read a "boy" book. I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with me. I never particularly cared nor noticed the gender of the heroes or bad guys in my books. I cared what they *did,* how they felt, their thoughts. When I remember marking gender especially, it was because it was appropriate to their character, and seemed to fit them like a good soundtrack fits a movie--adds, enhances, but generally is part of the experience, not something heard separately. I've thrown way more than my 2 knuts into these discussions when I thought I had something interesting to say, but it's not the way I think, or read. Am I really that weird? --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 03:32:14 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:32:14 -0500 Subject: A name key, and some very humourous comments from chat! References: <8sdmqa+9369@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007901c03721$ae9ac180$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3651 voicelady_2000 says, Actually, here is a question no one has asked before. How did everyone come up with their online "names?" siriusgeologist says, I'm going to have to make a name key siriusgeologist says, mine is rather obvious... and then here I go! Grins. A key, to use in the chat room! Neil: flying_ford_anglia Heidi: heiditandy Diann: dee_97527 (married to Dennis) Simon: hert0661isme Eunice: elowyl (elowyl says, mine's boring... they're just my initials) Jeremy: peeves23 Jeralyn : voicelady_2000 (voicelady_2000 says, Phonetically, it's Jurl-in) Firebolt: foxdancer16 Carole: siriusgeologist (Married to Randy) Pippin: fizzwhizbee Dennis: p_dumbledore Rita: catlady_de_los_angeles Nick: babynick34 Blaise: blaise_42 Ebony: selah_1977 Alicia: princessspinnet Dee/Denise: gypsycaine kerri2399 ReinaKata02 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- siriusgeologist says, I'm not wild about the book covers though...except GoF voicelady_2000 says, why? siriusgeologist says, They make Harry look like Waldo (in the Where's Waldo books) voicelady_2000 chuckles in amusement siriusgeologist says, I had the worst time dispelling that image voicelady_2000 says, you realize, of course, that's all I'll see now. siriusgeologist says, ARGH...sorry about that! voicelady_2000 says, no problem! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hert0661isme says, Did you matriculate yesterday (something odd was happening around Hertford so I stayed away) blaise_42 says, yeah voicelady_2000 says, check out Borders.com hert0661isme says, Bet that was fun! foxdancer16 says, where's Alicia been lately? blaise_42 says, I didn't realise it had happened till it was over - they did their Latin bit and then told us we'd been matriculated ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- siriusgeologist says, Oh I wish I were a Hogwarts witch or wizard.. That is what I truly want to be eee.Cause if I were a hogwarts witch or wizard. Everyone would be envious of me eee!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- foxdancer16 says, no, I'm getting scared because there are adults being weirder than I am in this room. catlady_de_los_angeles says, The Turtles -- a very ancient long-ago band selah_1977 says, People in their 20s, I guess. selah_1977 says, that was for Fizz. flying_ford_anglia says, my computer is playing up... foxdancer16 says, that's a compliment, btw. voicelady_2000 says, on behalf of the adults, thank you very much. ? elowyl says, weird is good... rather than borign siriusgeologist says, What about Tuscon Institute of Technology and its acronym? voicelady_2000 says, ha! foxdancer16 says, insane is good. sane is not insane. sane is bad. fizzwhizbee says, Oh, well when you get to be >40 I guess being serious is less important voicelady_2000 says, My parents live in Intercourse, Pennsylvania. siriusgeologist says, My scar is starting to hurt again!! selah_1977 says, Sanity is a myth. Anyone ever met a totally sane person? flying_ford_anglia says, Weirdness is one of the Heavenly Virtues - Peg will write an essay on it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 02:35:31 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:35:31 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha In-Reply-To: <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sdphj+im9k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3652 > > If I can find a sitter, I'd like to treat you to a donut for that wonderful > summation! > > --Amanda > > A fellow professional wife and mother (and an editor on the side) I love donuts and spending the money my husband makes. It really is not such a bad deal! Even though my kids are obviously older than yours, I can understand the kid carrying the suppository box around. I just wonder how you and the others with small babies and small kids find the time to send messages. I have to squeeze in what time I can find and my kids are older. From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 02:37:02 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:37:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha References: <8sdphj+im9k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA69CE.C653D766@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3653 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > I love donuts and spending the money my husband makes. It really is > not such a bad deal! Even though my kids are obviously older than > yours, I can understand the kid carrying the suppository box around. > I just wonder how you and the others with small babies and small kids > find the time to send messages. I have to squeeze in what time I can > find and my kids are older. We live out in the country. My only regular live adult contact is my husband (and he doesn't always count). I *make* the time. Email is my line to the adult world. Conversation! Big words! And I don't have to take anyone to the potty, either! --Amanda From magicalhp at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 02:44:03 2000 From: magicalhp at yahoo.com (magicalhp at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:44:03 -0000 Subject: J.K. Rowling Appearances Message-ID: <8sdq1j+ga2q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3654 Hey all, I'm composing a list of appearances, chats etc. J. K. Rowling will be doing on her current tour. Sorry if this is repetitive...I didn't see these dates on the message board, but then again, there's a lot of stuff here. JKR will be appearing on NBC's Today show Monday morning, October 16th and also will be appearing on the Rosie O'Donnell Show Wednesday, October 18th. If you know of anything else besides the Scholastic, AOL and Barnes and Noble chats and the Canada appearances, I'm all ears. :) Cheers, ~Rachel www.magicalharrypotter.com From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 03:43:43 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:43:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] matriculated References: <8sdmqa+9369@eGroups.com> <007901c03721$ae9ac180$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <00a801c03723$48522560$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3655 Please, won't someone explain what this means???? Thanks! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rogers To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:32 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A name key, and some very humourous comments from chat! voicelady_2000 says, Actually, here is a question no one has asked before. How did everyone come up with their online "names?" siriusgeologist says, I'm going to have to make a name key siriusgeologist says, mine is rather obvious... and then here I go! Grins. A key, to use in the chat room! Neil: flying_ford_anglia Heidi: heiditandy Diann: dee_97527 (married to Dennis) Simon: hert0661isme Eunice: elowyl (elowyl says, mine's boring... they're just my initials) Jeremy: peeves23 Jeralyn : voicelady_2000 (voicelady_2000 says, Phonetically, it's Jurl-in) Firebolt: foxdancer16 Carole: siriusgeologist (Married to Randy) Pippin: fizzwhizbee Dennis: p_dumbledore Rita: catlady_de_los_angeles Nick: babynick34 Blaise: blaise_42 Ebony: selah_1977 Alicia: princessspinnet Dee/Denise: gypsycaine kerri2399 ReinaKata02 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- siriusgeologist says, I'm not wild about the book covers though...except GoF voicelady_2000 says, why? siriusgeologist says, They make Harry look like Waldo (in the Where's Waldo books) voicelady_2000 chuckles in amusement siriusgeologist says, I had the worst time dispelling that image voicelady_2000 says, you realize, of course, that's all I'll see now. siriusgeologist says, ARGH...sorry about that! voicelady_2000 says, no problem! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hert0661isme says, Did you matriculate yesterday (something odd was happening around Hertford so I stayed away) blaise_42 says, yeah voicelady_2000 says, check out Borders.com hert0661isme says, Bet that was fun! foxdancer16 says, where's Alicia been lately? blaise_42 says, I didn't realise it had happened till it was over - they did their Latin bit and then told us we'd been matriculated ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- siriusgeologist says, Oh I wish I were a Hogwarts witch or wizard.. That is what I truly want to be eee.Cause if I were a hogwarts witch or wizard. Everyone would be envious of me eee!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- foxdancer16 says, no, I'm getting scared because there are adults being weirder than I am in this room. catlady_de_los_angeles says, The Turtles -- a very ancient long-ago band selah_1977 says, People in their 20s, I guess. selah_1977 says, that was for Fizz. flying_ford_anglia says, my computer is playing up... foxdancer16 says, that's a compliment, btw. voicelady_2000 says, on behalf of the adults, thank you very much. ? elowyl says, weird is good... rather than borign siriusgeologist says, What about Tuscon Institute of Technology and its acronym? voicelady_2000 says, ha! foxdancer16 says, insane is good. sane is not insane. sane is bad. fizzwhizbee says, Oh, well when you get to be >40 I guess being serious is less important voicelady_2000 says, My parents live in Intercourse, Pennsylvania. siriusgeologist says, My scar is starting to hurt again!! selah_1977 says, Sanity is a myth. Anyone ever met a totally sane person? flying_ford_anglia says, Weirdness is one of the Heavenly Virtues - Peg will write an essay on it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 02:50:16 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:50:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 15 month olds & Baby Harry References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <006201c036cf$44762ee0$f743ddcf@oemcomputer> <39EA4461.66A5DF9B@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39EA6CE8.7157779F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3656 Hi -- Re: Baby Harry discussions today. I think the Potters were killed on Halloween 1981, so Harry would be exactly 15 mths old on the day they were killed. Based on my limited knowledge at this point, I'd agree with Amanda, Carole & Heidi -- he would have still been a "baby" for the most part at that time. Not so much a toddler really. I'm glad Carole stepped in with the notion that it wouldn't be completely abnormal for Harry to not be walking at 15 mths. I didn't walk until I was 17 mths (and, yes, I'm the firstborn & no, there weren't any real developmental issues that I'm aware of). My mom says I wanted to be absolutely sure I would never fall or make a mistake (what does *that* say about my personality). In any case, once I started walking, I didn't apparently stumble, fall or anything of the sort. Conversely, my younger sister walked at 9 mths. So much for theories, eh? I don't remember when my parents say I started talking, but my experience with 15 mth old kids is that they aren't really talking too intelligibly at that age. My bottom line assessment -- I don't think JKR had a firm idea of Harry's age when she wrote that first chapter. I'm starting to suspect that she didn't have as firm a grasp on the "timeline" as some of us have supposed. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 03:02:18 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:02:18 -0500 Subject: J.K. Rowling Appearances References: <8sdq1j+ga2q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EA6FBA.A846E60B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3657 Hi -- magicalhp at yahoo.com wrote: > JKR will be appearing on NBC's Today show Monday morning, October > 16th and also will be appearing on the Rosie O'Donnell Show > Wednesday, October 18th. If you know of anything else besides the > Scholastic, AOL and Barnes and Noble chats and the Canada appearances, > I'm all ears. :) Rachel -- thanks for the synopsis. I hadn't heard about the Today Show appearance. I just went to msnbc.com to see if it would tell me what hour she would be on the show. It doesn't say, but there is a place where you can email questions for Rowling. The answers will be divulged on Friday's program. I submitted a question from our group re: the number of students at Hogwarts. My plan is to also submit one question from the group to the B&N interview & to the Scholastic interview (I have no idea how to get into the AOL interview while it's going on). I'm trying to go for questions that would be relatively easy for her to answer (brief questions that elicit rather brief replies). I decided that the number of students issue falls into that category for the most part. Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions for these other interviews? Some of our oft-debated questions tend to involve rather detailed or lengthy explanations to get the point across (and can likewise be expected to require more detailed answers frome her) - therefore are unlikely to be selected by the moderator or answered. I had thought about the ancestor-descendant debate -- the question itself could probably be phrased relatively simply if I try hard. Any thoughts? Of course, you're all free to submit as many questions individually as you like. I just thought it might give our adult fans some publicity if the question specifies it's from a group of adult fans & asks a thoughtful question (but one that doesn't require her to write a volume in response). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 03:31:04 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:31:04 -0000 Subject: Snape's age In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001015224511.0088c518@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8sdspo+g4tc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3658 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: >>Hmmm. I thought 40-odd would be pushing it. The Texas vid? It's been> doing the rounds, but I guess MTV and VH1 will show it to death. Sharleen> was asked who she'd most like to tango with in the video and she picked her> dream man: Alan Rickman. He does look a bit like someone's Dad dancing with> his daughter's best friend - those close-ups aren't kind. Yikes. Maybe they can digitally remove the jowls and wrinkles and whatnot. Airbrush him like a centerfold. I like that she chose Rickman, too bad he looked so fatherly... >>It's amazing what make-up and special effects can do these days, so I don't> think we should worry *too* much about any of the people cast. Overall, the> cast is looking great, in my opinion. I'm hopeful, too, that the actors will "look" right by the time all is done. I also saw the pic in the files of the boy cast as Draco. I'm not alone in thinking that Draco is quite a pale blond, right? His face, yes, but pale hair too, right? >> I hope Julie Walters accepts the> Molly Weasley role and does it with her Liverpool accent. Mind you, I think> I'm right in saying that Molly's supposed to be older than Snape... She was rumored to have been cast in another part, yes? What might I have seen her in? I've seen her, but can't place where. I was hoping Pauline Collins might get the part, but I'm sure Walters would be good. And, I think that's right-- Marauders around 35-38, Arthur and Molly 43-46? In that neighborhood, anyway. > Neil > > >No catchy online name > >>That's okay - not eveyone has to be as sad as me. You don't think you're clever??? ;oP ------Kelley--rusted roller-skate missing a wheel? > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > ***************************************** > > "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, > the car rumbled off into the darkness, > its rear lights blazing angrily" > > [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] > > ***************************************** From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 16 03:46:08 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:46:08 -0000 Subject: The Trouble with Isms (long reply) In-Reply-To: <8sdcdi+iktp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sdtm0+gj5h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3659 > > I find it interesting that while it's okay to chastise JKR for not having more female characters in the limelight. I am chastising no one. I was writing my reflections and thoughts about the book. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Oct 16 03:17:29 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:17:29 -0500 Subject: 7 Heavenly Virtues: Hope Message-ID: <39EA7349.CD3330CF@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3660 Here's a nice segue: Faith, it is said, is the essence of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen. So what, in turn, is hope? And what does it have to do with Harry? What does Harry need to learn about hope on his moral journey? Hope clusters with the concepts of desire, belief, reliance, expectation. At the beginning of the first book, we find a paradox: Harry, himself, IS hope, to the wizarding world, that is. He is the Boy Who Lived. Because of him, Voldemort has fled, and wizards everywhere, astounded by this turn of events, arouse themselves from their long nightmare and look around, saying, "Is it possible? Could it be? Do you think we could have . . . a normal life again? Can we actually look forward to the future, instead of dreading it?" And yet, simultaneously, Harry must withdraw from the world he has rescued and go into exile to live with the Dursleys. (This is a common mythic trope, btw: Hercules is raised by a magical goat, in hiding from Hera, and there's Moses in the bullrushes, etc.) We hear at first from Dumbledore that Harry will be living there because the Dursleys are his only living relatives. He also says it would be best that Harry grow up without being shadowed by his fame. Several books in, however, we get a hint that Dumbledore had another reason for the decision to place Harry with his aunt and uncle: the Dursleys, being blood relatives, offer Harry a special kind of protection from Voldemort, despite the fact that they are only Muggles. In a way, Harry, the Boy Who Lived, plays the same role as Hope in the Greek myth. He must be sequestered, shut away in a box by Pandora/Dumbledore, to protect him from the evil entities loose in the world. So Harry stays with the Dursleys. And here we find the paradox I spoke of earlier: while Harry is the embodiment of hope for the wizard world, he has absolutely no hope for himself. A trip to the zoo? Birthday presents? A bright future? Forget it. Harry has been taught by bitter experience not to expect anything pleasant, or to even to hope that things might improve. The language Rowling uses paint him as that archetypal figure without hope, the prisoner. He sleeps in a locked cupboard, where spiders crawl over him; he dresses in ill-fitted clothes (Dudley's cast offs); he is expected to swallow insults without protest; he sometimes goes without meals. This picture of Harry-as-prisoner while with the Dursleys is further fleshed out in later books: during subsequent summers with the Dursley, it is clear that Harry is supposed to work while Dudley is idle (and doubtless without remuneration); he is locked into his room and has food shoved through a slot; his windows are barred; he is denied access to his books and writing implements. The day that the first letter from Hogwarts drops through the front door mail slot, however, everything changes. Uncle Vernon's reaction is to tell Harry to move out from the cupboard beneath the stairs up to the second bedroom. The letter from Hogwarts completes the circle, bringing the truth (and thus hope) to Harry, about the hope Harry had brought the entire wizarding world. And as a result, Harry starts to understand that he is not meant to be merely a prisoner, a drudge for the Dursleys and Dudley's punching bag. As the Dursleys sense that Harry is slipping out of their grasp, growing beyond the range of their mundane brutality, they try increasingly to clamp down on him. But hope, once it has taken root, cannot be denied. The letters will keep coming, and Hagrid, in the end, cannot be prevented from telling the truth. This struggle between repression and rescue continues in subsequent summers: the Dursleys bar Harry's windows; the Weasleys arrive in their flying car to rescue him. The Dursleys threaten Harry, and Harry blows up Aunt Marge, and counters threats with the spectre of his fearsome godfather, Sirius. Once the prisoner has hope, he can no longer be cowed into unthinking submission, and eventually, he will be free. In the same way that Harry is absorbing these new, exciting ideas about the possibility of being able to learn a special kind of power, in a world where he truly belongs, Harry is also learning to place his hope in other people--to believe in them, in other words; to rely on them. Reliance, perhaps, overlaps with faith, or trust; I am not sure I could draw a useful distinction between these terms. At any rate, as I noted in post about faith, Harry is starting to realize that he is not all alone. There are other people besides himself to whom he can turn if he is in need of help or guidance. The first, of course, are Ron and Hermione. Both of these friendships with Harry were forged with an incidents in which the three discovered they could count on each other. Ron and Harry became friends on the train, after Harry refused the opportunity to snub Ron to order to curry favor with Draco. And Harry and Ron became friends with Hermione after the incident with the troll the first Halloween. As Rowling puts it in one of her delightfully wry observations, "There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them." More warily, Harry starts, quite tentatively, to allow himself to rely upon adults (and we know, after his experiences with the Dursleys, that the idea of trusting and relying on an adult is a very novel sensation for Harry). He takes his time about getting used to the idea. When invited by Dumbledore to share his burdens or concerns, Harry often will refuse, preferring to keep his worries to himself. Again, as he starts to forge a relationship with his godfather, Sirius, Harry is ambivalent. He decides to write to Sirius at the beginning of GoF, hoping that Sirius might provide an answer about the pain from his scar--but conversely, he scolds himself for endangering Sirius when Sirius reacts to Harry's news by replying that he will fly north immediately. And yet, almost despite himself, Harry finds that he is growing in his trust and reliance upon other people. In considering his relationship with one of the most important, Dumbledore, we should note Rowling's use of an important symbol of hope: Dumbledore's pet phoenix, Fawkes. As a symbol for hope, a phoenix is quite appropriate. It dies, but all hope is not lost, for new life springs from the ashes. The first time Harry encountered Fawkes, he was waiting in Dumbledore's office fearing expulsion, or worse: he was found by a petrified fellow student, Justin Finch Fletchley, and as Harry is a Parselmouth, he is suspected of attacking Justin. As Harry awaits the Headmaster, Fawkes bursts into flames (to Harry's horror). But just as a new reborn Fawkes emerges, Harry will emerge from Dumbledore's office, his academic career not cut short after all. When Tom Riddle's ghost jeers in the Chamber of Secrets that Dumbledore has been driven from the castle by the mere memory of him (Riddle), Harry counters with a statement that shows how firmly he has placed his hope in Dumbledore: "He's not as gone as you might think," Harry retorted. He was speaking at random, wanting to scare Riddle, wishing rather than believing it to be true. And in immediate response to this statement of faith and hope, Fawkes appears, singing his beautiful song, bringing the tool (the sorting hat) that will defeat Tom Riddle's ghost, in defiance of "common sense" that all hope is lost. Another example takes place in the GoF. In the graveyard, crouching behind the gravestone as Voldemort approaches, Harry decides to die standing, defending himself, even though "there was no hope, no help to be had." And yet, when the wizards duel with their wands, the priori incantatem spell is triggered--and suddenly there is hope after all. Harry hears, significantly, phoenix song. "It was the sound of hope to Harry . . . the most beautiful and welcome thing he had ever heard in his life." The ghosts reappear and whisper words support to Harry; his parents' spirits tell him that they will try to help him--and he escapes to fight another day. And it is Fawkes magical healing tears, falling later in Dumbledore's office, which heal him from the wounds he has suffered. The GoF ends somberly, still resonating with the painful memories of what happened when Harry and Cedric seized the cup together in the maze. But Harry is not the same person that he was when he was a child of ten, in thrall to the Dursleys with no hope of rescue. Now, as Dumbledore says, he has shouldered a grown wizard's burden and found himself equal to it. He would not have been able to do what he has done up until now but for the help he has received, that he has come to expect, in his moral journey. He knows he is not alone now. Friends and allies stand shoulder to shoulder with him, all gathered together under Dumbledore's leadership. That is the hope that will sustain him as he steels himself to face the ordeals ahead, in the gathering darkness of Voldemort's new arising. Peg From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 16 03:49:29 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:49:29 -0000 Subject: OT-computer history/ very OT In-Reply-To: <39EA0BE7.C1028D84@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sdts9+4q68@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3661 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > > > Oh, it was Steve Jobs and Wozniak (can't remember his first name) who > > > > worked in their basement. Anyway, the personal desktop computer was > > > > the idea of 60s radicals who wanted to take the power of computing > > > > away from the Pentagon and give it to the people. Very counter- > > > > cultural and anti-bureaucratic. > > > > > > Shot that foot clean off, didn't they? > > > ??? Sorry, Amanda, what do you mean? > > An extreme form of "shooting oneself in the foot," an expression for > injuring yourself when you were trying to do unto someone or something else. > The goals of the PC inventors are rather amusing considering what the PC and > its derivatives have grown to be. "Counter-cultural" and now it's fast > becoming the dominant cultural determinant; "anti-bureaucratic" and it's the > tool that let bureaucracies grow and thrive. I was commenting on the irony. > > --Amanda Oh. Got it. Don't agree. The internet is a tool like any other, and one of the things it has done is allow ordinary citizens to get information. For example, it is changing the face of international adoption, because parents can now share information. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 16 03:54:39 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:54:39 -0000 Subject: JKR's sex bias In-Reply-To: <39EA6740.759ECFEB@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sdu5v+aka2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3662 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > voicelady wrote: > > > We know that JKR wrote these stories for herself, but OF COURSE her main objective was in getting them published so that other people could enjoy them, too. And I wonder if subconsciously she made the story more geared to boys than girls. Statistically speaking, girls are bigger readers than boys, and there is less of a social stigma for a girl to read a "boy" book. > > I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with me. I never particularly cared nor noticed the gender of the heroes or bad guys in my books. I cared what they *did,* how they felt, their thoughts. When I remember marking gender especially, it was because it was appropriate to their character, and seemed to fit them like a good soundtrack fits a movie--adds, enhances, but generally is part of the experience, not something heard separately. I've thrown way more than > my 2 knuts into these discussions when I thought I had something interesting to say, but it's not the way I think, or read. Am I really that weird? No, Amanda, you are probably very close to the norm. I would analogize that when I was growing up in the U.S.A. few white people noticed that all the store mannikins were white, that pink bandages were called "flesh colored" as were tan crayons. Susan > From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 04:05:20 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:05:20 -0000 Subject: The Name Severus (was Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: In-Reply-To: <8sdeh3+4elk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sduq0+h0ik@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3663 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > > Lucius Septimius Severus, 145-211 AD, Roman Emperor. > > this sure sounds like an origin for the word severe to me. ;o] > > (beside the name Albinus, I noticed the name Lucius up there) > > I don't know, but I think that Severus was named from the (Latin > version of the) word 'severe' rather than the other way around. Just > a coincidence that the name suited him so well. A counterexample is > the emperor Commodius. His name (related to 'accommodating') means > pleasant and easy to get along with, but he himself was a big > monster. Ah. You're probably right. So, do you think our Snape's name came from severe, or the charming emperor? Probably both, JKR seems to be a very learned lady. Kelley From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 16 04:06:51 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:06:51 -0000 Subject: Character Identification In-Reply-To: <20001015160121.7911.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <8sdusr+n2s0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3664 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > Neil Ward wrote: > > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before in one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? > Remus Lupin. I have great courage in some areas, and none at all in others. I love to break rules, and would have been a great Marauder. I like teaching, and particularly loved the scene where Remus helps Neville deal with his fear of Snape. If I had to say which child I identify most with it would be Harry. The character I most admire and want to be like - Albus Dumbledore. Can people answer questions two and three here? Maybe I'll do a poll. Susan From spicoli323 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 04:11:39 2000 From: spicoli323 at hotmail.com (Steve Bates) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:11:39 -0000 Subject: J.K. Rowling Appearances In-Reply-To: <39EA6FBA.A846E60B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sdv5r+hq99@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3665 > My plan is to also submit one question from the group to the B&N > interview & to the Scholastic interview (I have no idea how to get into > the AOL interview while it's going on). I'm trying to go for questions > that would be relatively easy for her to answer (brief questions that > elicit rather brief replies). I decided that the number of students > issue falls into that category for the most part. > > Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions for these > other interviews? Some of our oft-debated questions tend to involve > rather detailed or lengthy explanations to get the point across (and can > likewise be expected to require more detailed answers frome her) - > therefore are unlikely to be selected by the moderator or answered. I > had thought about the ancestor-descendant debate -- the question itself > could probably be phrased relatively simply if I try hard. Any > thoughts? > Can we ask about whether Lupin needs to actually be under the light of the full moon to transform? Is there a simple way to summarize why we think PoA is self-contradictory about this topic? It would take a better writer than me to phrase the question well. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 16 04:19:01 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:19:01 -0000 Subject: female characters In-Reply-To: <39EA621D.9BE6157@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sdvjl+aahk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3666 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > When I was a kid in the fifties, I used to wonder why the "kid > > escapes into a world of magic and adventure" stories were always about > > *girls*. > > Alice, Dorothy, Wendy, Lucy... I think Harry provides a little > > gender balance, myself. > Really? You missed out on Zorro, Robin Hood, William Tell, the Swamp Fox, Peter and Edmund, the Scarlet Pimpernel, Frodo, Bilbo, King Arthur, Lancelot, ..oh, sorry, you were only talking about the Kid escapes into a world of magic and adventure... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 16 04:21:14 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:21:14 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha In-Reply-To: <8sdphj+im9k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sdvnq+st08@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3667 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > > > If I can find a sitter, I'd like to treat you to a donut for that > wonderful > > summation! > > > > --Amanda > > > > A fellow professional wife and mother (and an editor on the side) > > > > I love donuts and spending the money my husband makes. It really is > not such a bad deal! Even though my kids are obviously older than > yours, I can understand the kid carrying the suppository box around. > I just wonder how you and the others with small babies and small kids > find the time to send messages. I have to squeeze in what time I can > find and my kids are older. Well, I hope that you will buy me a doughnut, too! I do work outside the home, but I have one three year old, and one 13 month old..... Mommy From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 16 04:24:13 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:24:13 -0000 Subject: 15 month olds & Baby Harry In-Reply-To: <39EA6CE8.7157779F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sdvtd+u0ud@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3668 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Re: Baby Harry discussions today. > > I think the Potters were killed on Halloween 1981, so Harry would be > exactly 15 mths old on the day they were killed. Based on my limited > knowledge at this point, I'd agree with Amanda, Carole & Heidi -- he > would have still been a "baby" for the most part at that time. Not so > much a toddler really. > it does depend, and it's not abnormal for a 15 month old not to be walking. However, my son and daughter both walked at 12 months (and I know many people whose kids walked before then). They are both, uh, kind of active. I vote for the charm that kept him sleeping until someone found him. Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 04:55:58 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:55:58 -0000 Subject: The Name Snape (was: Bartemius (was: Not So Faithful (was: Re: In-Reply-To: <000e01c03707$b81bc3e0$cac54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8se1ou+kivl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3669 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > We are talking about the same guy, right? Unfortunately, this site> > didn't include the 'magic' info, at least the parts I read. > > > > Yes, we are! - the info on Emperor Severus' interest in magic is in Gibbon, > Chapter 6, second paragraph. Unfortunately, thats' the only information > Gibbon provides on the magic angle. Perhaps some of the contemporary > classical sources would give more detail > Okay, it is the same person. This has me very curious, there was no mention of magic at all in the article I found. I'll look for some contemporary sources. I agreed that Snape probably got the name because Severus is the origin(?) of severe, but with that info about magic, it's seeming more like JKR decided that Septimius Severus was a fitting brother-in-spirit, as well as Severus being a fitting name for our dear Snape. Kelley From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 16 05:13:14 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:13:14 -0000 Subject: missing 24 hours? Message-ID: <8se2pa+80q7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3670 I just added a page to the Lexicon discussing the missing 24 hours in the narrative of what happened on Oct31/Nov1 1981. Has this been discussed already on this list? I included some thoughts there about the priori incantatem mystery as well. The search won't pick those new pages up until tomorrow, when the site is re-indexed, but you can find a link on the "What's New" page and also on the TimeLine. And if you've had just about enough of talking about who died and in which order, just ignore this message :) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From lrcjestes at msn.com Mon Oct 16 04:21:23 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:21:23 -0400 Subject: email time - way OT - but short References: <8sdphj+im9k@eGroups.com> <39EA69CE.C653D766@texas.net> Message-ID: <001d01c03731$4a62fba0$2daf20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3671 > We live out in the country. My only regular live adult contact is my husband > (and he doesn't always count). I *make* the time. Email is my line to the > adult world. Conversation! Big words! And I don't have to take anyone to the > potty, either! > > --Amanda Are you sure I didn't write this? Three kids under 7, live in the boonies and work out of my house! While working at home is great for this stage in the kids lives...its murder on the intellect and conversation skills. I can now type better than I can speak. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 07:01:17 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:01:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: J.K. Rowling Appearances References: <8sdq1j+ga2q@eGroups.com> <39EA6FBA.A846E60B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <008a01c0373e$e3927460$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3672 What about the wand issue, with Lily and James apparently switched, Penny, or the "gleam" ? (Sees the shudder, lol!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:02 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: J.K. Rowling Appearances Hi -- magicalhp at yahoo.com wrote: > JKR will be appearing on NBC's Today show Monday morning, October > 16th and also will be appearing on the Rosie O'Donnell Show > Wednesday, October 18th. If you know of anything else besides the > Scholastic, AOL and Barnes and Noble chats and the Canada appearances, > I'm all ears. :) Rachel -- thanks for the synopsis. I hadn't heard about the Today Show appearance. I just went to msnbc.com to see if it would tell me what hour she would be on the show. It doesn't say, but there is a place where you can email questions for Rowling. The answers will be divulged on Friday's program. I submitted a question from our group re: the number of students at Hogwarts. My plan is to also submit one question from the group to the B&N interview & to the Scholastic interview (I have no idea how to get into the AOL interview while it's going on). I'm trying to go for questions that would be relatively easy for her to answer (brief questions that elicit rather brief replies). I decided that the number of students issue falls into that category for the most part. Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions for these other interviews? Some of our oft-debated questions tend to involve rather detailed or lengthy explanations to get the point across (and can likewise be expected to require more detailed answers frome her) - therefore are unlikely to be selected by the moderator or answered. I had thought about the ancestor-descendant debate -- the question itself could probably be phrased relatively simply if I try hard. Any thoughts? Of course, you're all free to submit as many questions individually as you like. I just thought it might give our adult fans some publicity if the question specifies it's from a group of adult fans & asks a thoughtful question (but one that doesn't require her to write a volume in response). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 16 08:20:06 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:20:06 +0100 Subject: question for JKR, subject lines/posts, matriculation Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3673 Penny wrote: "Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions for these other interviews?" Dee Replied: "What about the wand issue, with Lily and James apparently switched, Penny, or the "gleam" ? (Sees the shudder, lol!)" We have to be very careful as to what question we ask. It would be better to ask a lesser question that we are quite sure will get an actual answer, rather than asking a harder question which gets deflect with 'you will have to wait and see'. Neil wrote: "Personally, I'm not so keen on the combining of topics in one post, but we did agree to do that because of the sheer volume of posting. It makes scanning for the FAQs more difficult if, for example, an interesting comment on Snape is buried in a post labelled "Re: Re: My back yard (OT)"" This is again a case where the subject line is not being updated correctly. I know what you mean though, it takes ages to go through the message. Neil wrote: "When replying to someone else, it's worth naming the person who made the original comments and indicating what they were saying" It is good manners to acknowledge whom you are quoting. Also this will help avoids situation where one person quotes another and then gets shot down for the bit they were quoting because someone else thinks that they were the ones who wrote it. Dee wrote: "Please, won't someone explain what this [matriculation] means????" Matriculation is the ceremony that formalises someone's entry to The University of Oxford. I guess that it is used elsewhere as well. It involves getting dressed up in sub fusc (find out for yourselves - I have mentioned it before) and then going to The Sheldonian (large concert hall) and getting spoken too in Latin by the Vice-Chancellor of the University. The Chancellor / Vice-Chancellor thing almost follows Lori's PoU - we know who the Chancellor is but they only turn up for one ceremony a year (Encaenia - The annual Commemoration of founders and benefactors at Oxford University, held in June.) Hope that clears up that little mystery. Simon (more comments and replies later - off to bake a cake) From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 09:45:40 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:45:40 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: After a Dementors Kiss - References: <8sdnqj+8c1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3674 ----- Original Message ----- From: mmarth at peoplepc.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:06 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: After a Dementors Kiss - Now what? lots of questions I don't know exactly what they are. Just some kind of creature, I guess. As soon as I read the part where Barty Crouch Jr. was given that lovely kiss, I thought we would see him again. I just picture that once Voldemort gets the dementors on his side there is a way to get that person's soul (or whatever) back into them. I hadn't thought about this possibility. s/o I was talking to today suggested that it would be like being in a coma - and that the experance would not necessarily have to be punitive Did that make any sense? yes, I think so I am not thinking very well right now!!! I just know I wouldn't want to be around them. I expect we will see quite a bit of them in the next books. urgh, they give me the creeps too. storm Martha > > eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 09:03:51 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:03:51 -0000 Subject: J.K. Rowling interview question In-Reply-To: <8sdv5r+hq99@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8seg9n+nhgv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3675 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Bates" wrote: > > My plan is to also submit one question from the group to the B&N > > interview & to the Scholastic interview (I have no idea how to get > into > > the AOL interview while it's going on). I'm trying to go for > questions > > that would be relatively easy for her to answer (brief questions > that > > elicit rather brief replies). I decided that the number of students > > issue falls into that category for the most part. > > > > Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions for > these > > other interviews? > > Can we ask about whether Lupin needs to actually be under the light > of the full moon to transform? Is there a simple way to summarize why > we think PoA is self-contradictory about this topic? It would > take a better writer than me to phrase the question well. I don't claim to be a better writer but I am so very curious about this topic that I *have* to try... Question: In 'Prisoner of Azkaban,' Professor Lupin transforms long after moonrise, when the moon comes out from behind a cloud. Is this the norm for werewolf transformations or is there something unusual happening? I think that's what we want to find out... if someone can put it better, please do. -Blaise. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 11:42:05 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:42:05 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] today show now References: <8sdnqj+8c1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EAE98D.6AD4EA1@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3676 \If you are online, JKR is on the today show now (eastern time) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 11:51:26 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:51:26 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups]TODAY SHOW References: <8sdnqj+8c1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EAEBBE.6C451A2A@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3677 Today show interview is over - I clocked it at under 4 minutes - all she really said was, book signings are too crazy these days, she didn't tone down anything in GoF at her editor's request, and she's taking more time with writing book 5. No plot questions were answ+ered, except that she said she might put Ron through the voice changing thing & let it happen to harry "off page" From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 12:04:52 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:04:52 -0000 Subject: J.K. Rowling Appearances In-Reply-To: <39EA6FBA.A846E60B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8seqt4+go4e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3678 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > My plan is to also submit one question from the group to the B&N > interview & to the Scholastic interview (I have no idea how to get into > the AOL interview while it's going on). I'm trying to go for questions > that would be relatively easy for her to answer (brief questions that > elicit rather brief replies). I decided that the number of students > issue falls into that category for the most part. As for myself, I would like to ask questions about the plot line but I know she wouldn't answer those. I am afraid we are not going to really hear anything we want. Young children are going to ask the same questions she has already been asked: is Ron going to die, is Harry going to die, who will Hermione date, etc.......Now I would be interested to know if Snape will die so I know whether to quite reading the book now or what!!!! > Martha From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 12:07:28 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:07:28 -0000 Subject: After a Dementors Kiss - In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8ser20+evfk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3679 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "storm stanford" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mmarth at p... > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:06 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: After a Dementors Kiss - Now what? lots of questions > > > > I don't know exactly what they are. Just some kind of creature, I > guess. As soon as I read the part where Barty Crouch Jr. was given > that lovely kiss, I thought we would see him again. I just picture > that once Voldemort gets the dementors on his side there is a way to > get that person's soul (or whatever) back into them. > > I hadn't thought about this possibility. s/o I was talking to today suggested that it would be like being in a coma - and that the experance would not necessarily have to be punitive > > Did that make any sense? > yes, I think so > I am not thinking very well right now!!! I just know I wouldn't want to be around them. I expect we will see quite a bit of > them in the next books. > > urgh, they give me the creeps too. > > storm > Martha Also, I am not quite sure what happens to the body of the person who has been kissed. Does it just sit there? Does it just die? So will the soul have to have another body? I mean, if the body is not eating and drinking surely IT would just die. Martha > > > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 13:14:09 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:14:09 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: After a Dementors Kiss - References: <8ser20+evfk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EAFF20.788EABB3@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3680 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > > Also, I am not quite sure what happens to the body of the person who > has been kissed. Does it just sit there? Does it just die? So will > the soul have to have another body? I mean, if the body is not > eating and drinking surely IT would just die. I think I go for the idea of Dementor Reproduction - that new dementors are made when souls are sucked out. That dovetails well with what Lupin said when telling Harry about them in PoA: > "Dementors are among the foulest creatures that walk this earth. They > infest the darkest, filthiest places, they glory in decay and despair, > they drain peace, hope, and happiness out of the air around them. Even > Muggles feel their presence, though they can't see them. Get too near a > dementor and every good feeling, every happy memory will be sucked out > of you. If it can, the dementor will feed on you long enough to reduce > you to something like itself... soul-less and evil. You'll be left with > nothing but the worst experiences of your life. > If a dementor is soul-less, then that certainly could mean that the soul has been sucked out. The other thing that occured to me - maybe in Albania dementors run wild (the Wolfie Twins' story Call of the Wild gets into the idea of wild dementors a bit) and Voldemort had tried posessing the bodies of those whose souls they had taken? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 13:23:01 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:23:01 -0500 Subject: TODAY SHOW & Questions for JKR References: <8sdnqj+8c1h@eGroups.com> <39EAEBBE.6C451A2A@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39EB0135.6BDB0E62@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3681 Hi -- Thanks for the synopsis Heidi -- you beat me to it! Interesting about the voice change though since Jim Dale already gave Harry & Ron deeper voices in GoF. :--) She was talking really fast when she was talking about the fact that the kids will confront more adolescent issues in the next book. I may see if there's a transcript on the msnbc page later today. Other than that, Heidi's right -- she didn't say anything too terribly exciting. The questions & answers will be done on Friday's show (& Jim Dale will do a reading). Questions for JKR -- 1. I like Steve's idea & Blaise's phrasing on the Lupin question. I will submit that one for us. 2. Dee -- the Wand Order & Gleam questions are great, but it's *very* unlikely she'll say anything more than an enigmatic "you'll find out in later books." I'm interested in giving her questions that she can either answer outright OR will provide food for thought for her (things she might address in Book 5 in response like she did with Harry's perceived stinginess, Pavarti's twin, pronouciation of Hermione, etc.). I'm supposed to be in charge of the FAQ on Inconsistencies & Mysteries. I think I will start going through that material today & see if I can come up with some other possibilities. I do wonder if all the questions are *given* to her, even if they aren't all posed to her officially. In other words, I wonder if she might flip across our questions at some point later, even if they don't make the final cut. Hmmmm.... Final question --- should I submit more than one question per forum (Today Show, B&N, Scholastic)? Or, should I just do 3 questions total? Any thoughts? Keep submitting thoughts! Penny From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 13:37:30 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:37:30 -0000 Subject: Musical Tastes of Dumbledore & Flamel (long) In-Reply-To: <8sdj2m+bc2t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sf0aq+10nt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3682 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > > The best definition of music I know is by the composer Ferruccio > > Busoni: "Music is myth, metaphysics, and magic." > > He left out mathematics. > > I think you weren't around when some people were inspired by > Dumbledore's reaction to singing the school song at the Arrival Feast > in Book 1: "Ah, music, a magic above all we teach here." They were > saying, suppose he meant it literally, suppose the way to dissolve > Voldemort is to sing harmonies with the Phoenix. I think I missed it too, but it makes a lot of sense, especially if you've read a certain novel called The Eight by Katherine Neville, which is probably the basis for most of why I know whatever it is I know about alchemy and the synergy between music, magic, mathematics and the entire universe. This is a long, 2 part post - the first is a little description of waves, the second is a little thought about magical music. Part 1: In ancient greece, Pythagoras first described "the music of the spheres" - he thought the universe was composed of numbers, that just as the notes of a musical scale repeat, octave after octave, so all things in nature form a pattern which can be accessed with anyone who can synchronize themselves with said pattern - clearly, wizards in JKR's world are synchronized in that way. Pythagoras's theories form the basis for harmonic analysis, which is the basis for both acoustical physics and quantum physics. The basic idea is that any phenomena of a periodically recurring nature can be measured - as a wave (sound, light, heat, the tides, the phases of the moon). Kepler used this theory to discover planetary motion, and Newton (who some of us believe is a wizard and was a professor at Merlin College, Cambridge!) used it to describe universal gravitation and the equinoxes. Euler, in mathematics, used it to prove that light was a wave form whose color depended on length, and Fouruer, in the 1700's, revealed the manner in which all wave forms, including atoms, could be measured. Pythagoras taught music, equally with philosophy, mathematics and astronomy. He thougth sound waves washed through the universe, and comprised everything from the smallest sub-atomic particle on up. Waves hold molecules together, and by manipulating the waves, with sound (like a Phoenix song), you can do magic. One little note - Pythagoras came from Phoenicia, the same place as the mythical origin of the Phoenix bird. Part 2 - I remember some earlier posts discussing the idea that until a few hundred years ago, people believed in wizardry & witchcraft - why? perhaps because it was part of life- perhaps toward the sidelines in a parallel community, but with occasional intersection - and before the age of reason, most people had no need to NOT believe that magic was real - and then at some point, magic and reason separated. Obviously, a lot of music from before that time, especially by those magicians like Bach who were interested in (if not obsessed with) alchemy and mathematics, may have been created by wizards or on a commission from wizards (the same way that, if you read Neil Gaiman, you know that Midsummer Night's Dream was written on a commission from Faerie). More modern music from the rock & roll era? My theory is that a lot of one hit wonders were wizard kids who came to rock in the Muggle world, had one great hit, and then joined the ministry of magic & dropped off the face of the muggle world for a while. Sort of the way some Amish kids have a year or two of the "modern world" before returning to the community. What else could explain the video for Safety Dance? (I'm showing my age!) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 13:50:43 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:50:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: J.K. Rowling Appearances References: <8sdq1j+ga2q@eGroups.com> <39EA6FBA.A846E60B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39EB07B3.412AF11A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3683 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions for these > other interviews? Some of our oft-debated questions tend to involve > rather detailed or lengthy explanations to get the point across (and can > likewise be expected to require more detailed answers frome her) - > therefore are unlikely to be selected by the moderator or answered. I > had thought about the ancestor-descendant debate -- the question itself > could probably be phrased relatively simply if I try hard. Any > thoughts? Well, I'd been meaning to post this one to the list, but if there's not already an answer it's a quickie---how come Sirius had an openly used flying motorcycle, if Arthur Weasley's flying car is illegal? Were the laws different then? --Amanda From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 13:53:47 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:53:47 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's age References: <8sdna5+6vm5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB086B.486BA8C8@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3684 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > > > I think of Snape as mid-30's. Lupin was described as quite young. I > tend to think the Potter's married young and had Harry at a young > age. Molly would be quite a bit older than Snape. I've theorized about this before, but I've runthe numbers again - and this is how it makes sense to me... If Charlie Weasley started Hogwarts in 1978, then Bill had to've started in at least 1977 (yes, I know, they could've been the same year, one born in Sept, one born in August, but someone would've mentioned it by now), and that would mean that it is *highly likely* that both James & Lily had graduated by at least 1977- otherwise, wouldn't Bill (or possibly charlie) have said "Hey, I was a first year when your dad was head boy/seeker/etc", which means that they had to've been born no later than 1959, (and 21 when Harry was born) which would make Sirius & Remus (ASSUMING they were the same year as at least james) no younger than going on 35 in PoA (which I just nearly wrote as PoU - oops!) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 14:07:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:07:07 -0500 Subject: Lupin question wording References: <8seg9n+nhgv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB0B8B.8DA03E5B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3685 Blaise wrote: > Question: In 'Prisoner of Azkaban,' Professor Lupin transforms long > after moonrise, when the moon comes out from behind a cloud. Is this > the norm for werewolf transformations or is there something unusual > happening? How about: Question: "RE: Remus Lupin and the trigger for werewolf transformation---If it's the rising of the moon, why did Lupin only begin to transform when the moon came from behind a cloud; and if it's moonlight itself, why couldn't he just hide from it? Does taking the potion affect the time of the change as well as his mental state once changed?" --Amanda From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 14:19:53 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:19:53 -0000 Subject: Susan and Amanda/ Message-ID: <8sf2q9+cv7g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3686 Well girls, I hate to tell you but I stopped and had a donut (actually an eclair) with a coke as I took my son to school! He had a donut and coke also. I said I enjoyed motherhood but I didn't say I was the best, as far as nutritious meals are concerned! Martha Who had better get off this computer and pay bills, make brownies for the orchestra concert tonight (my son the violin player who doesn't practice), clean house, and cook a real meal (not those from the box that I so often do). From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 16 14:25:02 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:25:02 +0100 Subject: Questions for JKR Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3687 Penny wrote: "I do wonder if all the questions are *given* to her, even if they aren't all posed to her officially. In other words, I wonder if she might flip across our questions at some point later, even if they don't make the final cut. Hmmmm...." I would guess that they give her the questions a short time in advance so that any she does not want to deal with can be removed while leaving a few in to wet our appetite for the next book. The interviews that I have heard JKR give left me with the impression that she was thoroughly prepared for the questions (things like having the scrap page with notes on the ghosts in the books in one interview - how likely is this without some preparation?). Penny wrote: "Final question --- should I submit more than one question per forum (Today Show, B&N, Scholastic)? Or, should I just do 3 questions total? Any thoughts?" A few questions for each. It may be best if different club members could send one message in each. I would guess that most things like this do not like asking lots of questions from the same person. How about making some reference to the fact that it is a bunch of adults asking the questions? Simon From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 14:28:45 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:28:45 -0000 Subject: Florence? Message-ID: <8sf3at+l0km@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3688 I am still going through old messages in hopes that I don't repeat too many things. I have yet to come across anyone mentioning Florence. In GoF(A), chapter 30, pg 598, when Dumbledore and Harry are looking in the pensieve, Bertha Jorkins comes out. She mentions a girl by the name of Florence. Who is Florence? Is she a nobody or as JKR so often does, is she someone important to the story and we just don't know it yet. Snapes face had just appeared in the pensieve and a few moments later Dumbledore is bringing up Bertha Jorkins. It is the part about the "hex" that leads me to believe it could have been Snape kissing Florence. Most people are so determined that Snape was in love with Lily but could he have been in love with Florence. Did she die? Did V. kill her? Is that why Snape came back to the good side? I know this theory is about as weak as that vampire theory, but hey....... Or could it have been Sirius Black who was kissing Bertha. He mentions her nosiness twice! Just a few thoughts. Martha From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 14:27:16 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:27:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Susan and Amanda/ References: <8sf2q9+cv7g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB1043.65E35574@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3689 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > Well girls, I hate to tell you but I stopped and had a donut > (actually an eclair) with a coke as I took my son to school! He had a > donut and coke also. I said I enjoyed motherhood but I didn't say I > was the best, as far as nutritious meals are concerned! I have a picture of me sitting with my sleeping newborn daughter on my tummy, with a bowl of Cheetos balanced on her back and me holding a Diet Coke. Yeah, I was breastfeeding. I gave a print to my Ob/Gyn. --Amanda From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 09:14:37 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:14:37 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification References: <8sdusr+n2s0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3690 From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 2:06 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > Neil Ward wrote: > > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before in one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? > I *want* to be Sirus but maybe that's because I am so much better with dogs than ppl! If I had to say which child I identify most with it would be Harry. hmm, prob Hermonie - when in doubt head for the library The character I most admire and want to be like - Albus Dumbledore. me too. Do you rememeber before we were discussing that he might have so horrid flaw? - I hope not storm eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 14:32:09 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:32:09 -0000 Subject: Questions for JKR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sf3h9+jegb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3691 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Penny wrote: "I do wonder if all the questions are *given* to her, even if > they aren't all posed to her officially. In other words, I wonder if she > might flip across our questions at some point later, even if they don't make > the final cut. Hmmmm...." I wouldn't be surprised if she knows the questions beforehand> > > > How about making some reference to the fact that it is a bunch of adults > asking the questions? > > Simon Yeah, I don't know if Rowling realizes how many adult fans are out here! How about asking her who was kissing Florence in book 4. If she won't tell then we know it is important to the story. Martha From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 14:38:58 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:38:58 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape Message-ID: <8sf3u2+q7ug@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3692 I know there have been posts on Neville but I have to ask again: why is he so afraid of Snape? Even more than the other kids. Could he possibly know something about Snape no one else does? Did his grandmother tell him something? When I read about his parents being Auror's my first thought was that maybe one of the Longbottoms had caught Snape. And we all know how my guy handles grudges! But then I thought that would be too obvious. I just think there is something more to the Snape/Neville thing. Martha Maybe that would be a good question for Rowling!!! From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 15:51:17 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:51:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's age References: <8sdna5+6vm5@eGroups.com> <39EB086B.486BA8C8@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <018f01c03788$ebd10d40$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3693 Couldn't this also be a question, the age of Lily and James when they had Harry, or the ages of all the Marauders? It's not too hard a question that she'll avoid it altogether (and I was kidding, btw, with the other two suggestions, I KNOW she won't answer them, but it's always nice to hope--to put the end to the new people coming in and saying, what's with that gleam in AD's eye....) Just ask, how old are Sirius and Remus? ----- Original Message ----- From: heidi To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape's age mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > > > I think of Snape as mid-30's. Lupin was described as quite young. I > tend to think the Potter's married young and had Harry at a young > age. Molly would be quite a bit older than Snape. I've theorized about this before, but I've runthe numbers again - and this is how it makes sense to me... If Charlie Weasley started Hogwarts in 1978, then Bill had to've started in at least 1977 (yes, I know, they could've been the same year, one born in Sept, one born in August, but someone would've mentioned it by now), and that would mean that it is *highly likely* that both James & Lily had graduated by at least 1977- otherwise, wouldn't Bill (or possibly charlie) have said "Hey, I was a first year when your dad was head boy/seeker/etc", which means that they had to've been born no later than 1959, (and 21 when Harry was born) which would make Sirius & Remus (ASSUMING they were the same year as at least james) no younger than going on 35 in PoA (which I just nearly wrote as PoU - oops!) eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 15:55:29 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:55:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Questions for JKR References: <8sf3h9+jegb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01a701c03789$81eb42a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3694 Penny, Could you perhaps use the egroup URL when you ask the question, giving her at least a "chance" to visit (like she would, lol!), or have one of her "people" visit, hence they'll see ALLLLLLLLLLL the FAQ's we have, and perhaps they'll all be addressed in future books??? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: mmarth at peoplepc.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 9:32 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Questions for JKR --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Penny wrote: "I do wonder if all the questions are *given* to her, even if > they aren't all posed to her officially. In other words, I wonder if she > might flip across our questions at some point later, even if they don't make > the final cut. Hmmmm...." I wouldn't be surprised if she knows the questions beforehand> > > > How about making some reference to the fact that it is a bunch of adults > asking the questions? > > Simon Yeah, I don't know if Rowling realizes how many adult fans are out here! How about asking her who was kissing Florence in book 4. If she won't tell then we know it is important to the story. Martha eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 15:02:50 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:02:50 -0000 Subject: Question for JKR Message-ID: <8sf5aq+doaj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3695 I think Denise asks a good question. How old was Lily and James when they had Harry? Why wouldn't she answer that one? How about these: Why DID Snape come back to the good side? Was someone else at the Potters when they were killed and who was it? Is Snape some sort of Vampire? Why does Snape really hate James? (and not that Quidditch excuse) Do you really think she would answer any of those? No way! Don't even ask. Why do all my questions have to do with Snape? Martha From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 15:27:05 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:27:05 -0500 Subject: Questions for JKR Message-ID: <39EB1E49.19C3C2AF@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3696 Hi -- I've taken down the various questions that seem likely to be answerable & will submit as many as I can during the Scholastic interview today. It appears to be set up so that you can ask questions during the interview, but not submit them in advance. So, I'll probably only get one opportunity, if any. Anyone else who can join in that interview, please do so & ask any questions that you want. I think I'll ask the how old were James & Lily when Harry was born question as that's short & easy phrasing & can be answered very easily. When I submitted to the Today show, I did indicate that the question was from the HP for Grownups group (HPforGrownups at egroups.com). I'd encourage everyone who submits a question to do the same -- some publicity for our group! :--) The B&N interview on Friday allows you to submit questions in advance but only on the day of the interview. So, I'll submit a few questions from the group that morning. Anyone else should feel free to do so as well. Speaking of ages, someone should ask how old Bill & Charlie Weasley are!! That's another good interview question for simple phrasing & an easy answer if she doesn't have to stop & think about it. The confusing aspect is pointing out all the inconsistencies to her. :--) Penny From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 15:36:40 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:36:40 -0000 Subject: whoa... Message-ID: <8sf7a8+9l9t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3697 Hey folks, I just realized that next week it's my turn for the chapter/character discussions (Ch. 16, Fleur and Viktor). But you know what? I also have two midterms due that week! :( So please have mercy on me if I do not live up to the standards of this fine group! Auf Wiedersehen/Ci vediamo/Hasta pronto, Kaitlin From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 15:36:43 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:36:43 -0000 Subject: whoa... Message-ID: <8sf7ab+100gu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3698 Hey folks, I just realized that next week it's my turn for the chapter/character discussions (Ch. 16, Fleur and Viktor). But you know what? I also have two midterms due that week! :( So please have mercy on me if I do not live up to the standards of this fine group! Auf Wiedersehen/Ci vediamo/Hasta pronto, Kaitlin From particle at urbanet.ch Mon Oct 16 15:55:13 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:55:13 +0200 Subject: Last minute question idea... Message-ID: <003c01c03789$78e821a0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3699 How about asking whether the Roman Emperor Severus Septimius actually did have a bearing on good ol' Sevvy's name? And while we're at it, how about working 'good ol' Sevvy' into the wording of the submitted question, just to see how she reacts? ~Firebolt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 16:54:38 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:54:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Times, and dates, please (was Questions for JKR) References: <39EB1E49.19C3C2AF@swbell.net> Message-ID: <024b01c03791$c5652660$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3700 Penny, could you give a list of those interviews with Eastern Times and dates, so those of us who might be able to attend (and Not be at the dentist, grumble grumble...) can.... ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 10:27 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions for JKR Hi -- I've taken down the various questions that seem likely to be answerable & will submit as many as I can during the Scholastic interview today. It appears to be set up so that you can ask questions during the interview, but not submit them in advance. So, I'll probably only get one opportunity, if any. Anyone else who can join in that interview, please do so & ask any questions that you want. I think I'll ask the how old were James & Lily when Harry was born question as that's short & easy phrasing & can be answered very easily. When I submitted to the Today show, I did indicate that the question was from the HP for Grownups group (HPforGrownups at egroups.com). I'd encourage everyone who submits a question to do the same -- some publicity for our group! :--) The B&N interview on Friday allows you to submit questions in advance but only on the day of the interview. So, I'll submit a few questions from the group that morning. Anyone else should feel free to do so as well. Speaking of ages, someone should ask how old Bill & Charlie Weasley are!! That's another good interview question for simple phrasing & an easy answer if she doesn't have to stop & think about it. The confusing aspect is pointing out all the inconsistencies to her. :--) Penny eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 16:07:26 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:07:26 -0000 Subject: Florence? In-Reply-To: <8sf3at+l0km@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sf93u+cvn3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3701 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > I am still going through old messages in hopes that I don't repeat > too many things. I have yet to come across anyone mentioning > Florence. In GoF(A), chapter 30, pg 598, when Dumbledore and Harry > are looking in the pensieve, Bertha Jorkins comes out. She mentions > a girl by the name of Florence. Who is Florence? Is she a nobody or > as JKR so often does, is she someone important to the story and we > just don't know it yet. Snapes face had just appeared in the pensieve > and a few moments later Dumbledore is bringing up Bertha Jorkins. A rather convoluted arguement was once put forth that "Florence" was actually Lily, but for that to work you had to suspend your disbelief. IMHO, of course. I think the reason Bertha shows up in the Pensieve is because she disappeared in Albania -- Voldemort's last known address. And Sirius does say that she was nosy, so I'm sure most of Dumbledore's memories of Bertha have something to do with the results of her nosiness! ht From particle at urbanet.ch Mon Oct 16 16:24:54 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:24:54 +0200 Subject: Will be at chat (Re: [HPforGrownups] Times, and dates, please) References: <39EB1E49.19C3C2AF@swbell.net> <024b01c03791$c5652660$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <008701c0378d$9e58a5a0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3702 Dee said: Well, the scholastic one is at 12.30-1.30 ET, meaning...::looks at watch nervously:: in about 10 minutes, if I've calculated times right. I can't study for the PSATs under this kind of suspense... I'm actually going to be at the chat, and the question I'll ask is whether Septimius Severus has anything to do with our Snape. ~Firebolt From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 17:46:41 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:46:41 -0500 Subject: Will be at chat (Re: [HPforGrownups] Times, and dates, please) References: <39EB1E49.19C3C2AF@swbell.net> <024b01c03791$c5652660$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <008701c0378d$9e58a5a0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <001801c03799$0b46fee0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3703 Firebolt, I logged in the second I got your email, but I keep getting this: {Cleared old text} sing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - The chat is having a brief interruption. I'm attempting to reconnect you. [live1] Closing Link: guest-EZGuest692[c21b087.neo.rr.com] () - Sighs. Guess I am not meant to be there! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Firebolt To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 11:24 AM Subject: Will be at chat (Re: [HPforGrownups] Times, and dates, please) Dee said: Well, the scholastic one is at 12.30-1.30 ET, meaning...::looks at watch nervously:: in about 10 minutes, if I've calculated times right. I can't study for the PSATs under this kind of suspense... I'm actually going to be at the chat, and the question I'll ask is whether Septimius Severus has anything to do with our Snape. ~Firebolt eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 16:54:08 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:54:08 -0500 Subject: Scholastic Chat Message-ID: <39EB32B0.FC23FD55@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3704 Hi -- I'm at the Scholastic chat right now, and just wanted to report that these are THE lamest damn questions ever! Very frustrating . . . .I submitted 4 very good but succintly worded questions from our group. Penny From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Oct 16 17:17:32 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 16 Oct 2000 10:17:32 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic Chat Message-ID: <20001016171732.3792.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3705 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 17:17:34 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:17:34 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts T-Shirts In! Message-ID: <8sfd7e+8ps7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3706 Hello all... Back on topic... promise not to post off-topic chapters to the list again. :) The Warner Brothers stores in our metro area JUST GOT THEIR HP CHRISTMAS STUFF IN! The best item I've seen so far is the long-sleeved Hogwarts tee... first spotted by me on a lady at the Al Gore rally. It looks great... even has the Latin motto IIRC. Check your WB store now! --Ebony From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Mon Oct 16 17:29:02 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 16 Oct 2000 17:29:02 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <971717342.48794@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3707 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /chat.txt Uploaded by : nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Description : Chat Transscript (unedited) from Scholastic Chat 16-Oct-2000 You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/chat%2Etxt To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 18:29:26 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:29:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic Chat References: <20001016171732.3792.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <007001c0379f$07088320$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3708 I didn't get them all. :( But here's some: - connecting to chat - connected to chat <#Scholastic-Event2> chatlet=Auditorium Questions=ASKScholastic height=51 <#Scholastic-Event2> Bio=Have a question for our guest? Type it here and click send! Welcome to the Scholastic Auditorium.Today we are interviewing J.K. Rowling. Only the moderator will see your question. By the volume of them,our moderator will select different questions to give you an exciting interview, therefore your question may not be used. let's see what I can tell you without giving anything away.... erm.... no, can't do it, sorry * guest-2 says: If you could be a wizard, who would you be? Melissa, Milnes School, Fair lawn new jersey if I were a character in the book, I'd probably be Hermione thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received she's a lot like me when I was younger (I wasn't that clever but I was definitely that annoying at times!) * guest-EZGuest206 says: When will the movie of Harry Potter be out? November 2001 was the last I heard! * guest-EZGuest898 says: Ms. Rowling, in an article I read in "Good Housekeeping", you stated that the character Hermione received her personality from her likeness of you at the age. What other things inspired you for other aspects or details in your books? Ron is a lot like my oldest friend, who is called Sean and with whom I went to school I never intended Ron to be like Sean, but he turned out that way... Gilderoy Lockhart is also a lot like someone I once knew, but I don't think I'd better elaborate! * guest-EZGuest844 says: WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE WIZARD CANDY? FROM MISS GOEHRING'S FOURTH GRADE IN LANCASTER CO., PA Chocolate frogs... I'd like to collect the cards! * guest-EZGuest455 says: How did the Dursley's explain away the tail when he had to have it removed at the hospital? They went to a private hospital where the staff were very discreet and said that a wart had got out of control * guest-EZGuest522 says: How much control do you have on all of the products flooding the marketplace with a Harry Potter theme? Do you think they will sell well? Unless it's a Warner Bros. product it shouldn't have Harry's name on it at all, so I have no control and accept no responsibility! Warner Bros. have allowed me to have a say in merchandise relating to the film * guest-EZGuest314 says: Is it true, since Voldemort took Harry's blood by force, that Harry can kill Voldemort, but Voldemort can't kill Harry? it's an interesting theory, but I wouldn't trust it too much! * guest-42 says: Do you still have the napkins that you wrote the first book on? I'm giggling... where did you read that?! I didn't write on napkins! I wrote in notepads... we really need to squash this myth before people ask to see the used tea bags on which I drafted the first book * guest-EZGuest477 says: Is the Mrs. Figg with all the cats in the Dursleys' neighborhood the same Arabella Figg that Dumbledore mentioned at the end of book 4? Well spotted!!! * guest-EZGuest946 says: The Harry Potter Series has lots of humorous moments. Do you consider yourself to be a really funny person? er - no, not really I think I am funnier on paper than I am in person the exact reverse of my sister who is very funny in person but writes dull letters! * guest-EZGuest682 says: Can you explain how Lupin turns into a werewolf, since he didn't turn in the Shrieking Shack in PoA, but instead he turned only when the full moonlight hit him outside the tunnel. If he only turned into a wolf in the moonlight why didn't he just stay inside? Did it have to do with the potion? Or was the moon not up yet? The moon wasn't up when he entered the Shrieking Shack * guest-34 says: As the author, when reading your books, can you enjoy them as a reader and sympathize with Harry, or is it too hard to be "objective"? too hard to be objective... when I re-read the books I often catch myself re-editing them it's an uncomfortable experience however, the more time elapses, the less I find myself doing that - I can now read Sorcerer's Stone fairly comfortably * guest-EZGuest379 says: How many students attend Hogwarts and how many students per year per house? There are about a thousand students at Hogwarts * guest-EZGuest580 says: Did you ever make a study of herbs and other Hogwarts subjects, or did you create all those classes from inspiration? thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received most of the magic is made up occasionally I will use something that people used to believe was true - for example, the 'Hand of Glory' which Draco gets from Borgin and Burkes in Chamber of Secrets * guest-EZGuest79 says: You said ron's cousin was taken out of Book 4, and you developed Rita Skeeter more after that...do you still think that it would have been more fun to keep her? can u tell me anything about what she was going to be like? well, maybe I will use her in another book, so I don't want to talk about her too much I had never 'killed' a character before (in either sense) until Goblet of Fire, so that made writing the book a little more stressful! * guest-EZGuest277 says: Why was a different cover illustration chosen for the books sold in the United States? Why do those books have illustrations at the beginning of each chapter but the British books do not? publishers choose to do things differently and I'm glad about that it's very exciting for the author to see their work in many different versions I love the look of the American books, especially the chapter illustrations * guest-EZGuest863 says: In the 2th book Harry & Ron went to the girls' toilet & met McGonagall. They told her that theyr'e going to visit Hermione & she started crying. Why? she found it very touching that Harry and Ron were missing Hermione so badly (or so she thought) under that gruff exterior, Professor McGonagall is a bit of an old softy, really thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received * guest-EZGuest379 says: How old is old in the wizarding world and how old are Professors Dumbledore and McGonagall? Dumbledore is a hundred and fifty and Professor McGonagall is a sprightly seventy wizards have a much longer life expectancy than Muggles (Harry hasn't found out about that yet) * guest-EZGuest682 says: How does the wizarding world protect muggle banks and vaults, etc from wizards apparating into them and stealing the contents? well, the Ministry of Magic keeps tabs on people apparating that's why you have to have a license to do it the moment you abuse it you can find yourself in serious trouble (or Azkaban!) * guest-EZGuest735 says: What position did James play on the Gryffindor Quidditch team? Was it seeker like Harry, or something different? James was Chaser * guest-EZGuest201 says: How painful is the editien process for you? Compared with writing a first draft, how long do you spend editien? Who do you conference with? I work with my editors I enjoy the editing process thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received but I edit fairly extensively myself before my editors get to see the book, so it's never a very long job * guest-EZGuest478 says: Are you writing all the books at the same time, like in little pieces, while concentrating on mostly the present one, or just have a general idea about them? during the first five years that I was writing the series I made plans and wrote small pieces of all the books I concentrate on one book at a time, though occasionally I will get an idea for a future book and scribble it down for future reference * guest-EZGuest868 says: Any plans for a video game soon? I think there probably will be a video game, but when, I have no idea * guest-EZGuest282 says: Do you think elementary age children will be able to read the other three books in the series? yes, I do I personally feel the books are suitable for people aged 8 years and over though my daughter, who is seven, has read them all and not been very frightened - but maybe she's tough, like her mother! * guest-EZGuest868 says: When you are not writing or reading what things do you enjoy in your free time? let's see..... when I'm not reading, writing or spending time with my daughter there isn't much time left over... but I like travelling most * guest-EZGuest79 says: Some sets on the movies are already being created...do you think they represent how you invisioned them in the book? Have you had any input on the shooting locations? I know they look as I imagined them (those that have been done so far)! * guest-EZGuest678 says: Hello I was wondering HOw much Tolkien Inspired and influenced your writing? hard to say... I didn't read the Hobbit until after the first Harry book was written, though I read Lord of the Rings when I was nineteen I think, setting aside the obvious fact that we both use myth and legend, that the similarities are fairly superficial Tolkien created a whole new mythology, which I would never claim to have done... on the other hand, I think I have better jokes. * guest-EZGuest898 says: Ms. Rowling, for being fictional books, the Harry Potter books have a great grasp on the Latin language. I have noticed that many if not most of the names and incantations are of Latin heritage. How much research does it take to give these books their Latin heritage? My Latin, such as it is, is self-taught. I enjoy feeling that wizards would continue to use this dead language in their everyday life * guest-EZGuest403 says: Will you have a cameo in the Harry Potter movie? No, definitely not. I hate watching myself on-screen! * guest-EZGuest956 says: If there was one thing you could change about the world what would it be I would make each and every one of us much more tolerant. * guest-EZGuest321 says: Do any of the things that happen in the Harry Potter books reflect any of your childhood fantasies? flying, definitely... and who wouldn't want to be able to use the Jelly-Legs Curse? * guest-EZGuest800 says: Why did you choose the owl as the animal messenger in your books? the owls is traditionally associated with magic and I like them * Scholastic says: Our Thanks to JK Rowling for joining us today. Any thoughts you would like to leave us with? Keep reading! (and it doesn't have to be Harry Potter) * Many thanks to J.K. Rowling for joining us this afternoon and participating in our live interview. Be sure to check our Online Guest Calendar for more upcoming interviews. A transcript of today's chat will be available in the next few days at scholastic.com. . This has been a presentation of Scholastic And Talk City, Inc. . All rights reserved. Copyright 2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady at mymailstation.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic Chat On Mon, 16 October 2000, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > I'm at the Scholastic chat right now, and just wanted to report that these are THE lamest damn questions ever! (In my best Gene Rayburn Matchgame voice): How lame were they?!? _____________________________________________________________ This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark of CIDCO Incorporated. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 16 17:35:12 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:35:12 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <8sf3u2+q7ug@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sfe8g+iaqq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3709 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > > > I know there have been posts on Neville but I have to ask again: why > is he so afraid of Snape? Even more than the other kids. Could he > possibly know something about Snape no one else does? Did his > grandmother tell him something? When I read about his parents being > Auror's my first thought was that maybe one of the Longbottoms had > caught Snape. And we all know how my guy handles grudges! But then > I thought that would be too obvious. I just think there is something > more to the Snape/Neville thing. > > Martha > > Maybe that would be a good question for Rowling!!! Snape is a very intimidating teacher. (I had a Snape in high school and college). Neville is rather meek and easily intimidated and that makes it difficult for him to handle Snapes "tough love" teaching method. It could be Neville knows things that Harry, Ron and Hermione do not. However, since Neville doesn't really hang around them, they will never know. For example the gillyweed incident in GoF. Moody/Crouch Jr. gave Neville the book with the information in it. :-) Milz From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 16 17:36:38 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:36:38 -0000 Subject: Scholastic Chat In-Reply-To: <007001c0379f$07088320$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8sfeb6+en7e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3710 > I didn't get them all. :( Luckily I did... so the unedited version is now in Files. I am sure they must have had someone reading all the questions and picking out a few for Jo to answer. They didn't answer any of my questions, though I did see that HPFGUPS did get one question answered. Nick. From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 17:37:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:37:34 -0500 Subject: Revised Opinion of Scholastic Chat -- :) Message-ID: <39EB3CDE.3013124D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3711 Hi -- Okay it took over 20 minutes, but we did get some good questions in. No names were identified, so thanks to whoever asked some of the questions that I didn't! I sort of think the questions might be randomly chosen by guest # rather than substance (I say that since some of the lame questions were repeated several times, phrased slightly differently). Anyway, here's a recap of the good stuff: Oh man -- gotta do this from memory -- their chatroom cleared old text including the entire discourse on the ancestor/descendent debate. 1. Lily Potter was in Gryffindor & her maiden name was Evans. 2. Arabella Figg is the same as Mrs. Figgs. 3. Cats are important to the plot & she can't say how. 4. There are 1000 students at Hogwarts (which makes *no* sense!) 5. Lupin question --- she says the moon hadn't risen when Lupin went into the Shrieking Shack. Not sure I buy that either. 6. As for the ancestor/descendent debate, at first she said "ahh. . . . you caught that "deliberate" error. Then she said, it's supposed to be descendant & was changed in subsequent editions (she's wrong about that). Then, she said, conspiratorially, "hold onto that ancestor thought . . . it might be valuable later!"). Hmmm . . . can't decide what I think about all that! 7. Voldemort isn't related to Lily -- she laughed & said that would be very Star Wars-ish. 8. Dumbledore is 150 yrs old & McGonagall is 70 (so Maggie Smith *is* an appropriate casting choice). 9. James was a chaser on the Quidditch team while at Hogwarts. 10. She said again that she doesn't like or read fantasy literature & she downplayed any Tolkien influence on her writing. I can't think of anything else good that was discussed. Anyone else?? The chat transcript will be on Scholastic's site later this week. Penny From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 17:37:04 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:37:04 -0000 Subject: Scholastic Chat In-Reply-To: <39EB32B0.FC23FD55@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sfec0+rfmq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3712 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > I'm at the Scholastic chat right now, and just wanted to report that > these are THE lamest damn questions ever! > > Very frustrating . . . .I submitted 4 very good but succintly worded > questions from our group. > > Penny I was there too and it was pretty much like I expected. So many of those questions have been asked so many times. I imagine it will be the same at the other interviews. I was surprised she told us Lily's maiden name and house and the ages of Dumbledore and McGonagall. I think a lot has to do with the age of the people asking. Little kids are not into the plot as much as us adults. Martha From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 17:39:44 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:39:44 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat Message-ID: <8sfeh0+aovd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3713 Hey everyone-- Well, I was at the chat, guest 964, not one of my questions got through. I asked: How old are Charlie and Bill? Mr. and Mrs. Weasley? How old were James and Lily when Harry was born? How many students and teachers are at HW? When will we learn about James' parents? Can you tell us anything now? Were the Marauders in Gryff? Will there ever be a female DADA prof? She answered the number of students question, but from somebody else. I also saw you there Penny (#975--?), glad she answered the descendent/ancestor quest. She did give some good info, (I'm sure Penny will post), but yes for the most part, the questions that made it through were LAME. Doesn't everyone know she always wanted to be a writer, she wrote her first book at 6--"Rabbit", she's pleased about the movie, the name Potter came from childhood neighbors, etc.??? If I have to hear her answer "How did you come up with the idea for the story?" one more time... Kelley From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 17:39:08 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:39:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Question for JKR References: <8sf5aq+doaj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB3D3C.945D2B0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3714 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > Why do all my questions have to do with Snape? Because you are clearly a woman of rare taste and discernment. Not that I share your prejudice, or anything...... --Amanda Snapesfan From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 18:40:02 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:40:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic Chat References: <20001016171732.3792.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <007001c0379f$07088320$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <008a01c037a0$965f58e0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3715 Penny, would you delete that please? It went to the wrong email address? (I didn't mean to post it to the group!) Also, please delete this one as well! ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rogers To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic Chat I didn't get them all. :( But here's some: - connecting to chat - connected to chat <#Scholastic-Event2> chatlet=Auditorium Questions=ASKScholastic height=51 <#Scholastic-Event2> Bio=Have a question for our guest? Type it here and click send! Welcome to the Scholastic Auditorium.Today we are interviewing J.K. Rowling. Only the moderator will see your question. By the volume of them,our moderator will select different questions to give you an exciting interview, therefore your question may not be used. let's see what I can tell you without giving anything away.... erm.... no, can't do it, sorry * guest-2 says: If you could be a wizard, who would you be? Melissa, Milnes School, Fair lawn new jersey if I were a character in the book, I'd probably be Hermione thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received she's a lot like me when I was younger (I wasn't that clever but I was definitely that annoying at times!) * guest-EZGuest206 says: When will the movie of Harry Potter be out? November 2001 was the last I heard! * guest-EZGuest898 says: Ms. Rowling, in an article I read in "Good Housekeeping", you stated that the character Hermione received her personality from her likeness of you at the age. What other things inspired you for other aspects or details in your books? Ron is a lot like my oldest friend, who is called Sean and with whom I went to school I never intended Ron to be like Sean, but he turned out that way... Gilderoy Lockhart is also a lot like someone I once knew, but I don't think I'd better elaborate! * guest-EZGuest844 says: WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE WIZARD CANDY? FROM MISS GOEHRING'S FOURTH GRADE IN LANCASTER CO., PA Chocolate frogs... I'd like to collect the cards! * guest-EZGuest455 says: How did the Dursley's explain away the tail when he had to have it removed at the hospital? They went to a private hospital where the staff were very discreet and said that a wart had got out of control * guest-EZGuest522 says: How much control do you have on all of the products flooding the marketplace with a Harry Potter theme? Do you think they will sell well? Unless it's a Warner Bros. product it shouldn't have Harry's name on it at all, so I have no control and accept no responsibility! Warner Bros. have allowed me to have a say in merchandise relating to the film * guest-EZGuest314 says: Is it true, since Voldemort took Harry's blood by force, that Harry can kill Voldemort, but Voldemort can't kill Harry? it's an interesting theory, but I wouldn't trust it too much! * guest-42 says: Do you still have the napkins that you wrote the first book on? I'm giggling... where did you read that?! I didn't write on napkins! I wrote in notepads... we really need to squash this myth before people ask to see the used tea bags on which I drafted the first book * guest-EZGuest477 says: Is the Mrs. Figg with all the cats in the Dursleys' neighborhood the same Arabella Figg that Dumbledore mentioned at the end of book 4? Well spotted!!! * guest-EZGuest946 says: The Harry Potter Series has lots of humorous moments. Do you consider yourself to be a really funny person? er - no, not really I think I am funnier on paper than I am in person the exact reverse of my sister who is very funny in person but writes dull letters! * guest-EZGuest682 says: Can you explain how Lupin turns into a werewolf, since he didn't turn in the Shrieking Shack in PoA, but instead he turned only when the full moonlight hit him outside the tunnel. If he only turned into a wolf in the moonlight why didn't he just stay inside? Did it have to do with the potion? Or was the moon not up yet? The moon wasn't up when he entered the Shrieking Shack * guest-34 says: As the author, when reading your books, can you enjoy them as a reader and sympathize with Harry, or is it too hard to be "objective"? too hard to be objective... when I re-read the books I often catch myself re-editing them it's an uncomfortable experience however, the more time elapses, the less I find myself doing that - I can now read Sorcerer's Stone fairly comfortably * guest-EZGuest379 says: How many students attend Hogwarts and how many students per year per house? There are about a thousand students at Hogwarts * guest-EZGuest580 says: Did you ever make a study of herbs and other Hogwarts subjects, or did you create all those classes from inspiration? thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received most of the magic is made up occasionally I will use something that people used to believe was true - for example, the 'Hand of Glory' which Draco gets from Borgin and Burkes in Chamber of Secrets * guest-EZGuest79 says: You said ron's cousin was taken out of Book 4, and you developed Rita Skeeter more after that...do you still think that it would have been more fun to keep her? can u tell me anything about what she was going to be like? well, maybe I will use her in another book, so I don't want to talk about her too much I had never 'killed' a character before (in either sense) until Goblet of Fire, so that made writing the book a little more stressful! * guest-EZGuest277 says: Why was a different cover illustration chosen for the books sold in the United States? Why do those books have illustrations at the beginning of each chapter but the British books do not? publishers choose to do things differently and I'm glad about that it's very exciting for the author to see their work in many different versions I love the look of the American books, especially the chapter illustrations * guest-EZGuest863 says: In the 2th book Harry & Ron went to the girls' toilet & met McGonagall. They told her that theyr'e going to visit Hermione & she started crying. Why? she found it very touching that Harry and Ron were missing Hermione so badly (or so she thought) under that gruff exterior, Professor McGonagall is a bit of an old softy, really thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received * guest-EZGuest379 says: How old is old in the wizarding world and how old are Professors Dumbledore and McGonagall? Dumbledore is a hundred and fifty and Professor McGonagall is a sprightly seventy wizards have a much longer life expectancy than Muggles (Harry hasn't found out about that yet) * guest-EZGuest682 says: How does the wizarding world protect muggle banks and vaults, etc from wizards apparating into them and stealing the contents? well, the Ministry of Magic keeps tabs on people apparating that's why you have to have a license to do it the moment you abuse it you can find yourself in serious trouble (or Azkaban!) * guest-EZGuest735 says: What position did James play on the Gryffindor Quidditch team? Was it seeker like Harry, or something different? James was Chaser * guest-EZGuest201 says: How painful is the editien process for you? Compared with writing a first draft, how long do you spend editien? Who do you conference with? I work with my editors I enjoy the editing process thanks EZGuest74351481, your question has been received but I edit fairly extensively myself before my editors get to see the book, so it's never a very long job * guest-EZGuest478 says: Are you writing all the books at the same time, like in little pieces, while concentrating on mostly the present one, or just have a general idea about them? during the first five years that I was writing the series I made plans and wrote small pieces of all the books I concentrate on one book at a time, though occasionally I will get an idea for a future book and scribble it down for future reference * guest-EZGuest868 says: Any plans for a video game soon? I think there probably will be a video game, but when, I have no idea * guest-EZGuest282 says: Do you think elementary age children will be able to read the other three books in the series? yes, I do I personally feel the books are suitable for people aged 8 years and over though my daughter, who is seven, has read them all and not been very frightened - but maybe she's tough, like her mother! * guest-EZGuest868 says: When you are not writing or reading what things do you enjoy in your free time? let's see..... when I'm not reading, writing or spending time with my daughter there isn't much time left over... but I like travelling most * guest-EZGuest79 says: Some sets on the movies are already being created...do you think they represent how you invisioned them in the book? Have you had any input on the shooting locations? I know they look as I imagined them (those that have been done so far)! * guest-EZGuest678 says: Hello I was wondering HOw much Tolkien Inspired and influenced your writing? hard to say... I didn't read the Hobbit until after the first Harry book was written, though I read Lord of the Rings when I was nineteen I think, setting aside the obvious fact that we both use myth and legend, that the similarities are fairly superficial Tolkien created a whole new mythology, which I would never claim to have done... on the other hand, I think I have better jokes. * guest-EZGuest898 says: Ms. Rowling, for being fictional books, the Harry Potter books have a great grasp on the Latin language. I have noticed that many if not most of the names and incantations are of Latin heritage. How much research does it take to give these books their Latin heritage? My Latin, such as it is, is self-taught. I enjoy feeling that wizards would continue to use this dead language in their everyday life * guest-EZGuest403 says: Will you have a cameo in the Harry Potter movie? No, definitely not. I hate watching myself on-screen! * guest-EZGuest956 says: If there was one thing you could change about the world what would it be I would make each and every one of us much more tolerant. * guest-EZGuest321 says: Do any of the things that happen in the Harry Potter books reflect any of your childhood fantasies? flying, definitely... and who wouldn't want to be able to use the Jelly-Legs Curse? * guest-EZGuest800 says: Why did you choose the owl as the animal messenger in your books? the owls is traditionally associated with magic and I like them * Scholastic says: Our Thanks to JK Rowling for joining us today. Any thoughts you would like to leave us with? Keep reading! (and it doesn't have to be Harry Potter) * Many thanks to J.K. Rowling for joining us this afternoon and participating in our live interview. Be sure to check our Online Guest Calendar for more upcoming interviews. A transcript of today's chat will be available in the next few days at scholastic.com. . This has been a presentation of Scholastic And Talk City, Inc. . All rights reserved. Copyright 2000 ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady at mymailstation.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic Chat On Mon, 16 October 2000, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > I'm at the Scholastic chat right now, and just wanted to report that these are THE lamest damn questions ever! (In my best Gene Rayburn Matchgame voice): How lame were they?!? _____________________________________________________________ This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark of CIDCO Incorporated. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 17:44:40 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:44:40 -0000 Subject: the questions got better! Message-ID: <8sfeq8+b8bd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3716 Penny's paraphrases were great - here's the cut & paste job from the chat. You know, it seems a lot less insipid when you read the whole thing in 7 minutes instead of an hour... Which house was Lily Potter in, and what is her maiden name? Her maiden name was Evans and she was in Gryffindor (naturally) * (I think I speak for SO SO SO many of us when I say, "WHEW! It's not riddle, she wasn't in slytherin - and I can hear millions of fanfic writers saying "DAMN!" ANd Penny -= was this you?: Is Voldemort the last remaining ancestor of Slytherin or the last remaining descendent of Slytherin? ah, you spotted the deliberate error... yes, it should read 'descendent' that's been changed in subsequent editions! (keep hold of the 'ancestor' one, maybe it'll be valuable Is there something more to the cats appearing in the books than first meets the eye? (Ie, Mrs Figg's cats... Crookshanks... Prof. McGonagall as a cat... etc) ooooo another good question let's see what I can tell you without giving anything away.... erm.... no, can't do it, sorry but then later: : Is the Mrs. Figg with all the cats in the Dursleys' neighborhood the same Arabella Figg that Dumbledore mentioned at the end of book 4? Well spotted!!! And I still think she didn't *get* the import of the question, blaise: ASKScholastic> guest-EZGuest682 says: Can you explain how Lupin turns into a werewolf, since he didn't turn in the Shrieking Shack in PoA, but instead he turned only when the full moonlight hit him outside the tunnel. If he only turned into a wolf in the moonlight why didn't he just stay inside? Did it have to do with the potion? Or was the moon not up yet? The moon wasn't up when he entered the Shrieking Shack How old is old in the wizarding world and how old are Professors Dumbledore and McGonagall? Dumbledore is a hundred and fifty and Professor McGonagall is a sprightly seventy wizards have a much longer life expectancy than Muggles (Harry hasn't found out about that yet) A bit of a "huh!" ASKScholastic> guest-EZGuest735 says: What position did James play on the Gryffindor Quidditch team? Was it seeker like Harry, or something different? James was Chaser And most importantly, guest-EZGuest379 says: How many students attend Hogwarts and how many students per year per house? There are about a thousand students at Hogwarts From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 16 17:41:47 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:41:47 -0000 Subject: Revised Opinion of Scholastic Chat -- :) In-Reply-To: <39EB3CDE.3013124D@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sfekr+5rer@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3717 > Oh man -- gotta do this from memory -- their chatroom cleared old text including the entire discourse on the ancestor/descendent debate. ---------- guest-EZGuest975 says: HP for Grownups again: Is Voldemort the last remaining ancestor of Slytherin or the last remaining descendent of Slytherin? ah, you spotted the deliberate error... yes, it should read 'descendent' that's been changed in subsequent editions! (keep hold of the 'ancestor' one, maybe it'll be valuable one day!) * ---------- Courtsey of Nick's Chat Bot (namely my Ctrl-C buttons!) From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 17:50:08 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:50:08 -0000 Subject: Question for JKR In-Reply-To: <39EB3D3C.945D2B0@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sff4g+8e1j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3718 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > mmarth at p... wrote: > > > Why do all my questions have to do with Snape? > > Because you are clearly a woman of rare taste and discernment. Not that I > share your prejudice, or anything...... > > --Amanda Snapesfan Since Snape is going to play a somewhat large part in the next books I don't understand why more questions about him aren't asked. You could ask if he loved Lily. But you must ask if he loved her in a romantic kind of way. There is more than one type of love. Doesn't anyone want to know what Snape's job was at the end of GoF? I would LOVE to know that. Martha From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 18:54:08 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:54:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic chat References: <8sfeh0+aovd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a201c037a2$776c74c0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3719 I did notice she mentioned the napkins (after someone asked her if she still had them: guest-42 says: Do you still have the napkins that you wrote the first book on? I'm giggling... where did you read that?! I didn't write on napkins! I wrote in notepads... we really need to squash this myth before people ask to see the used tea bags on which I drafted the first book * and she mentioned the Figg question, but she didn't answer that, did she? guest-EZGuest477 says: Is the Mrs. Figg with all the cats in the Dursleys' neighborhood the same Arabella Figg that Dumbledore mentioned at the end of book 4? Well spotted!!! * ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelley To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:39 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic chat Hey everyone-- Well, I was at the chat, guest 964, not one of my questions got through. I asked: How old are Charlie and Bill? Mr. and Mrs. Weasley? How old were James and Lily when Harry was born? How many students and teachers are at HW? When will we learn about James' parents? Can you tell us anything now? Were the Marauders in Gryff? Will there ever be a female DADA prof? She answered the number of students question, but from somebody else. I also saw you there Penny (#975--?), glad she answered the descendent/ancestor quest. She did give some good info, (I'm sure Penny will post), but yes for the most part, the questions that made it through were LAME. Doesn't everyone know she always wanted to be a writer, she wrote her first book at 6--"Rabbit", she's pleased about the movie, the name Potter came from childhood neighbors, etc.??? If I have to hear her answer "How did you come up with the idea for the story?" one more time... Kelley eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com`' . % .. `'   Abbrev.py ???`'  BadWordsData.py ?a'   CGPy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 17:52:24 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:52:24 -0000 Subject: Revised Opinion of Scholastic Chat -- :) In-Reply-To: <8sfekr+5rer@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sff8o+ta3e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3720 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nick at d... wrote: > > Oh man -- gotta do this from memory -- their chatroom cleared old > text including the entire discourse on the ancestor/descendent debate. > > ---------- > guest-EZGuest975 says: HP for Grownups again: Is > Voldemort the last remaining > ancestor of Slytherin or the last remaining descendent of Slytherin? > ah, you spotted the deliberate error... > yes, it should read 'descendent' > that's been changed in subsequent editions! > (keep hold of the 'ancestor' one, maybe it'll be > valuable one day!) > * > ---------- > > Courtsey of Nick's Chat Bot (namely my Ctrl-C buttons!) So what exactly does she mean by that. Could there be another descendent or ancestor? I am confused. Martha From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 18:21:25 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:21:25 -0500 Subject: Ancestor v Descendant Question References: <8sff8o+ta3e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB4725.88BF69AE@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3721 Hi -- mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > So what exactly does she mean by that. Could there be another > descendent or ancestor? I am confused. I am a bit confused by her response myself. It sounds like she might have been impressed with the catch (referring to it as a "deliberate" error) & then quickly stepping in to say that it's been "corrected" to read descendant. But, she can't resist throwing in "hang on to the "ancestor" thought for later"! Would all the UK people please check your editions of CoS -- does *anyone* have a UK edition that says "descendant"???? My impression is that it has been left as ancestor in the UK editions. It was ancestor in early versions of the US hardback edition. At some point, it was changed to "descendant." BUT, the paperback versions of CoS that were just released by Scholastic in the US are BACK to using *ancestor.* So, what DOES all that mean? My feeling has always been that it's far too important for the British editors to have missed it completely in the first place. I've always thought that the American editors thought they were fixing something. But, if the UK editions have in fact never changed over to descendant & if the US paperback versions are also back to using ancestor, what does that mean? There's something there I think. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 18:31:32 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:31:32 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Centaurs Take Sides References: <43d6us4drfup04q6joauqv80hmppbploou@4ax.com> <4.2.0.58.20001010132909.02784680@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <001501c0379f$6a07d5c0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3722 I think the centaurs as a whole will stay neutral, but benefit Voldy by not helping. I suspect that Firenze may decide to join Dumbledore, though. And they might fight Voldemort if he directly attacked them. However, going by their behaviour in PS, I think they'll stay neutral for the most part. Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hardenbrook To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:36 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Centaurs Take Sides > There's been a lot of talk about what part various folks will play > as the fight against Voldemort heats up, but I haven't heard anyone > discuss the Centaurs. What role will they take -- good, bad or > neutral as Switzerland? I recently discovered that the word > "bane" means someone evil or destructive. Does this suggest > that Bane will go to Voldy's side? (And maybe Firenze on > Dumbledore's?) > > > > -- Dave > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 18:30:00 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:30:00 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? Message-ID: <8sfhf8+mr3f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3723 Well, Denise, I think someone posted that JKR gave the info at some 'live' event that Mrs. Figg is a squib. Is she perhaps the person who will discover his/her magical abilities later in life? (That could also be Filch, or Petunia--my hope, or Dudley). I would guess that Figg ~is~ Arabella Figg, but you're right, JKR didn't confirm it. We learned Lily's name was Evans, but this would have been her father's name, we still don't know anything about her mother, or her mother's family--wizards in the family tree? Since cats are important, one that wasn't mentioned that ~I~ think will be important is Mrs. Norris. Lily was in Gryff., can we figure the Marauders were in Gryff. as well? JKR laughed about Lily being related to Vold, saying it was very 'Stars Wars-ish', so do we take this as a "no"? She still could be descended from Gryff, and we learned nothing about James' ancestry. He could be Gryff-descended; he ~is~ wizard-born, according to the books; but he, Harry, and TR jr. seem to look a bit alike. Did she confirm that Vold _is_ the last descendent of Slyth, or just confirm that it was supposed to be descendent, and not ancestor? The 1000 students is closer to the number (800 or so) that I always imagined, but she didn't give info on how many kids per year, or how many teachers there are. James was a chaser, could there be anything here? must give it some more thought... Kelley From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 18:31:45 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:31:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic chat References: <8sfeh0+aovd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB4991.1D0124FB@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3724 Hi -- Kelley wrote: > She answered the number of students question, but from somebody else. I think that must have been from someone else because mine was phrased differently & definitely said HP for Grownups. > but yes for the most part, the questions that made it through were > LAME. > Doesn't everyone know she always wanted to be a writer, she wrote her > first book at 6--"Rabbit", she's pleased about the movie, the name > Potter came from childhood neighbors, etc.??? If I have to hear her > answer "How did you come up with the idea for the story?" one more > time... I know!!!! That was *so* frustrating! It's like "PLEASE ask something original; anything . . . just so it's ORIGINAL!!!" Of course, many of the questioners *were* kids so they can be forgiven for not knowing every detail of her life & not having all the details of her previous interviews at their fingertips but . . . . I was also tired of all the questions about the movie, casting & merchandise. Who cares what she thinks about a proposed video game? I want to know whether Snape is a vampire or not. So, I think we should all (as many as can) log on to the B&N chat on Friday & see about getting some more questions answered. I do think the Scholastic chat might have been randomly selecting questions . . . did anyone else have that impression or am I off-base? If that's the case, there's no harm in submitting tons of questions & hoping one or more of your questions will be randomly chosen. I asked 4 questions & 2 later in the chat (ancestor/descendant thing; number of students; age of James & Lily when Harry was born; age of Bill & Charlie; motorbike versus illegal car; and a follow-up to the # of students question). AOL users -- please do the same at the AOL chat on Thursday night. If there's anyway for non-AOL users to get on the chat, please let us know. The remaining chats that I'm aware of are: 1. AOL Chat with JKR -- Thursday October 19th -- 8:00 EST (1 hr I think) 2. B&N Chat with JKR -- Friday October 20th -- 2:00 EST (no time frame given) The Today Show will also have a Jim Dale reading & a brief synopsis of some questions submitted to JKR through the Today Show (www.msnbc.com) on their Friday program (no idea which time segment). I'm going to submit a few more questions to the Today Show I think. Might was well! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 16 18:31:08 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:31:08 +0100 Subject: Movie news - Pay row over children in teh movie Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3725 The following is from the BBC online website - it makes amusing reading. I was just being to get a good feeling about the movie and more bad news comes out! http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_975000/975000.stm 'Pay row' over Potter stars Child actors making the eagerly awaited film of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone have accused its makers of paying the lowest possible rates, it is reported. At least four leading agents are reported to be unhappy with Warner Bros' "heavy handed" treatment of their clients, according to The Independent newspaper. Two are reported to have already withdrawn children from the 90m film, set to hit British cinemas late next year. The film giant is said to be exploiting the fact that children are desperate to appear in the adaptation of J K Rowling's best-seller, offering the lowest possible fees for speaking parts and as little as 35 per day for background parts. According to parents and agents who complained about the rates, Warner Bros said that if they were unhappy there were "5,000 children waiting to do it for nothing". About 40,000 child actors beseiged the Harry Potter website when the film-maker announced a worldwide search for the cast. 'Very distressing' One agent, whose client was trying for a lead part, said the film-maker refused to consider negotiations on profit share or merchandising. Another, whose client was also up for a leading role, was told they had to sign the deal before the child would be allowed a screen test. "It all got very nasty," she told the newspaper. The "horrible" negotiation period had proved "very distressing" for her young hopeful. Equity, the union for adult actors, says its guidelines suggest child actors should receive half of the adult fee. But a spokesman said if a child was "an identifiable part of the action" they could receive a leading actor's rate. Warner Bros have declined to comment on the allegations, saying any contractual agreement is "strictly confidential". After more than a year of searching 11-year-old Daniel Radcliffe was signed for the lead role in an estimated 200,000 two-film deal. His mother is an experienced casting director. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 18:36:15 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:36:15 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat In-Reply-To: <39EB4991.1D0124FB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sfhqv+kkvt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3726 Penny, I'm flaberghasted by you! You didn't even *ask* her what she thinks of the New York Times creating a "children's books" list to keep GoF from being the number one book in the country. > I'm going to submit a few more questions to the Today Show I think. > Might was well! > > Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 18:39:43 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:39:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? References: <8sfhf8+mr3f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB4B6F.1DEEA0FC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3727 Hi -- Kelley wrote: > Well, Denise, I think someone posted that JKR gave the info at > some 'live' event that Mrs. Figg is a squib. Is she perhaps the > person who will discover his/her magical abilities later in life? > (That could also be Filch, or Petunia--my hope, or Dudley). I would > guess that Figg ~is~ Arabella Figg, but you're right, JKR didn't > confirm it. Hmm . . . I interpreted her response of "well-spotted" as being a confirmation that they are the same person. > Lily was in Gryff., can we figure the Marauders were in Gryff. as > well? Since she included "(naturally)" after her response, I took it to mean that it's more likely than not that the other Marauders are also Gryffindors. > JKR laughed about Lily being related to Vold, saying it was very > 'Stars Wars-ish', so do we take this as a "no"? I took it as a "no." > Did she confirm that Vold _is_ the last descendent of Slyth, or just > confirm that it was supposed to be descendent, and not ancestor? See my post earlier. I'm not sure but what she didn't just muddy the issue a fair bit. Seemed to me she was saying "Yeah, it was deliberately supposed to be ancestor." But, then, I'm not at all sure I understand her response. > The 1000 students is closer to the number (800 or so) that I always > imagined, but she didn't give info on how many kids per year, or how > many teachers there are. The 1000 students seemed off-the-cuff & not well-thought out to me. How do you explain that Harry has such a small class if there are really 1000 students there? That would be 150 students per year, which works out to be roughly 35 per House per year. Why would there only be 8 Gryffindors that year if there should be closer to 35? Makes *no* sense to me. > James was a chaser, could there be anything here? I couldn't decide if she was also confirming that James was in Gryffindor since the Question asked about what position he played for the Gryffindor Quidditch team. She confirmed the position but not the House. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 16 18:14:37 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:14:37 +0100 Subject: Chat Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3728 I have just finished reading the file that Nick (thanks - and to those who posed questions) uploaded and have a few thoughts (sorry if these have already been mentioned). I was quite impressed at some of the questions answered, JKR told us quite a bit - I expected to have been kept in the dark about Lily's house until the end. 1) Voldemort and Harry being related - deflected question with a joke and did not really give an answer. 2) Yippee to the comment about owls being great. 3) Lupin - Did not really think much to this answer. 4) Student numbers!? Really 1000? 5) Surprised at James being a chaser. Interestingly James being a chaser does not rule out James and Charlie being at school together - maybe no one mentions James to Harry as they feel they may upset him. Questions - for future interviews: Primary Schools? If the wizard children do not go to any school before Hogwarts then the Muggle kids will have better overall skills. Are there wizard schools pre-Hogwarts? Marauders' house? Marauders' age? Charlie and Bill's age? Simon (I do not seem to have anything to add to any of my FAQ's - that is good) And no - I do not know if the recommended author is related to me. From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 16 18:46:20 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:46:20 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <39EB4B6F.1DEEA0FC@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sfids+t07t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3729 > > > The 1000 students is closer to the number (800 or so) that I always > > imagined, but she didn't give info on how many kids per year, or how > > many teachers there are. > > The 1000 students seemed off-the-cuff & not well-thought out to me. How > do you explain that Harry has such a small class if there are really > 1000 students there? That would be 150 students per year, which works > out to be roughly 35 per House per year. Why would there only be 8 > Gryffindors that year if there should be closer to 35? Makes *no* sense > to me. Can you imagine how long it would take to sort 150 kids? I think the enthusiastic applause would be waning a bit by the time the 70th or 80 kid put on the hat, and dinner had to wait another hour... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 18:54:06 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:54:06 -0000 Subject: just this morning, I was thinking Message-ID: <8sfise+1sl2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3730 about the little "preview" Lori did for Paradigm of Uncertainty between chapters 14 & 15, because it was taking a while for Chapter 15 to be finished, and thinking that JKR should do something like that, maybe a long magazine article or a little book, to help us survive this gap between Books 4 & 5, as Book 5 will clearly not be out until late next year. I just saw on Yahoo news that my wish was answered - here's how: Reuters reported that Harry Potter (news - web sites) is to come to the aid of charity. J.K. Rowling agreed Monday to write two short books to raise money for Comic Relief, a charity for Third World causes. ``Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them'' and ``Quidditch Through The Ages'' will be published in March 2001. ``I have always had a hankering to write these two books, so when (film screenwriter) Richard Curtis wrote to me, I thought it was a wonderful opportunity to be involved with a charity I have always supported,'' Rowling said. For those of you who don't know, Richard Curtis was the director of 4 weddings & a funeral, a bunch of Blackadders (hi cassandra!) and Notting Hill. From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 19:01:23 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:01:23 -0000 Subject: Chat thoughts, Snape and more questions In-Reply-To: <8sfeq8+b8bd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sfja3+8r5r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3731 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > Which house was Lily Potter in, and what is her maiden > name? > Her maiden name was Evans and she was in Gryffindor > (naturally) > * I would suggest that the '(naturally)' here would indicate that MWPP were also in Gryffindor, as it seems that she's putting all the 'best' people there. Still, if someone wants to ask in another chat what house they were in that would be good. > : Is the Mrs. Figg with all the cats in the Dursleys' > neighborhood the same Arabella Figg that Dumbledore mentioned at the end of book 4? > Well spotted!!! I think this means that they are the same person. > And I still think she didn't *get* the import of the question, > blaise: > ASKScholastic> guest-EZGuest682 says: Can you explain how Lupin turns > into a werewolf, since > he didn't turn in the Shrieking Shack in PoA, but instead he turned > only when the full moonlight hit him > outside the tunnel. If he only turned into a wolf in the moonlight > why didn't he just stay inside? Did it > have to do with the potion? Or was the moon not up yet? > The moon wasn't up when he entered the Shrieking Shack Nope - can someone try again with that question please? Here's a new wording: "What triggers the transformation into a werewolf? Is it the rising of the moon or the moonlight shining on the werewolf?" Do you think that'll get me a satisfactory answer? This is driving me nuts... I'll keep coming up with wordings though. Martha wrote: <> <> I'll second this as a good question to ask in the chat. <> I would put my money on it being more work as a spy for Dumbledore. I think he's going to go and try to pretend to Voldemort that he really is on his side and try to find out as much as he can for Dumbledore. So - my questions: The Lupin one again the Maurader's houses did Snape love Lily But she did give away lots of useful information, and thank you to the people who made the chat transcript for us, and those who asked questions. Hopefully we'll keep getting answers! -Blaise. From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 19:03:35 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:03:35 -0500 Subject: Ooh . . . One more Important Thing Message-ID: <39EB5107.2750443A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3732 Hi -- Can't believe I forgot *this* little tidbit!!! I'm even more convinced that Harry is just Harry (not Harold, Henry or anything else more "formal"). She says that "Harry" had always been her favorite boy's name & that if her daughter had been a boy, he'd have been named Harry & she would have had to find another name for our hero. She doesn't say she'd have called her son Harry; she says she would have named him Harry. She also reconfirmed that his middle name is James. So . . . Harry James Potter it is I think. Penny From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 16 19:18:45 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:18:45 +0100 Subject: Sopabox, questions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3733 Penny wrote: "She doesn't say she'd have called her son Harry; she says she would have named him Harry. She also reconfirmed that his middle name is James. So . . . Harry James Potter it is I think." I think you can get down off that soapbox now - we all believe you (I have always believed it). It does not change the fact that I do not think Harry James Potter sounds right, but maybe it is growing on me. Then again, I am biased against James (as a name - do not like it - will not explain reasoning). How about asking if Fudge is really a V supporter or just a characterization of Neville Chamberlain? How about checking that the three DE's that V talks about are Crouch, Karkaroff and Snape. Simon (might think of some more questions later - need to get some work done first!) From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 19:39:05 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:39:05 +0100 Subject: Harry Potter chess set? References: <20001010210326.19830.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> <4.2.0.58.20001010181102.02695d50@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005e01c037a8$c644b980$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3734 > Seriously, I think this is a good idea... I've even worked out a > "lineup" (Students vs. Faculty): > > White (Students) > > QR: Penelope > QN: Crookshanks > QB: Ron > Q: Hermione > K: Harry > KB: Neville > KN: Hedwig > KR: Percy > > Pawns: Fleur, Viktor, Seamus, Dean, Lavander, Parvati, Fred, George > > Black (Faculty/Grownups): > > QR: Sirius > QN: Buckbeak > QB: Snape > Q: McGonnegal > K: Dumbledore > KB: Hagrid > KN: Norbert > KR: Lupin > > Pawns: Flitwick, Sprout, Filch, Trelawney, Moody, Rosmerta, Mr. & Mrs. Weasley I quite like the idea too, but I'd go for a Harry vs Voldemort line-up, thus. White (Death Eaters) QR: Crabbe QK: Draco Malfoy QB: Lucius Malfoy Q: Wormtail K: Voldemort KB: Barty Crouch Jnr. KK: Quirrell KR: Goyle Pawns: An assortment of Dementors, Basilisks, werewolves, giants, hags, and other dark creatures. Black (Hogwarts) QR: Lupin QK: Snape QB: Ron Q: Hermione K: Harry KB: Dumbledore KK: Sirius KR: Hagrid Pawns: Hedwig, Crookshanks, Pigwidgeon, Ginny, Fred, George, McGonagall, Buckbeak Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 19:52:54 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:52:54 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tom Riddle References: <06ef01c03329$e98a3b00$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <006e01c037aa$ae544460$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3735 > Tom Riddle was killed, along with his parents, sometime in the early 40s, as > we learn in GoF, Chapter 1. They seem to have been victims of Avada Kedrava, > The Killing Curse. Just how Voldy engineered this is yet to be explained. That Riddle is Voldemort's father, who had the same name. Confusing, isn't it? Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 19:51:59 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:51:59 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8s0i3l+5jvu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006b01c037aa$91303ec0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3736 > As I re-read parts of PoA, I noticed that Snape is very in-tune with > body language and picks up very quickly when someone is cornered. For > example, when Snape sees Harry and Neville in hall near the witch > statue, Harry is tense and trying to get rid of Neville. Snape picks > up on it and shoos them away. Doesn't surprise me. I think Snape's very sensitive, deep down. When he was a kid, he was probably a really sweet, gentle little kid, (stop laughing, you at the back!)who got picked on so never let anyone see his soft side again. Think about it. Someone that bitter and cynical must have been really idealistic at one time. Snape seems to me to be someone who's suffered severe disappointment and hurt in his life, and is taking it out on the world. Jinx From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 19:46:59 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:46:59 -0000 Subject: Sopabox, questions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sflvj+2l9g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3737 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > > > How about checking that the three DE's that V talks about are Crouch, > Karkaroff and Snape. > > Simon (might think of some more questions later - need to get some work done > first!) I thought about that also. We just take for granted we know which one is which. If I have to hear one more time: What books do you read? What candy do you like? Have you written other books? Is it translated in other languages? Movie questions? Some of these people need to do their homework as these questions have been asked so many times. I guess some people want to know about the author and I want to know about the book. I guess I am being a little "testy" as I have just burned my supper! Martha From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 16 19:47:41 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:47:41 -0000 Subject: questions for JKR (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sfm0t+4eel@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3738 > Penny wrote: "Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions > for these other interviews?" --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > We have to be very careful as to what question we ask. It would be better to > ask a lesser question that we are quite sure will get an actual answer, > rather than asking a harder question which gets deflect with 'you will have > to wait and see'. Simon has a good point. There are a whole list of questions I am dying to know the answer to that I doubt JKR would answer, like: Why does Voldemort want to kill Harry? What was Professor Trewlawny's first accurate prediction? What house was James Potter in when he went to Hogwarts? Same question for the other Marauders and Lily. What did James and Lily do for a living? Why does Snape hate Harry and James so much? Was Snape in love with Lily when they were Hogwarts students? Why do the dementors try to give Harry the kiss of death (in PoA)? In GoF, why was it necessary to have Harry win the Triwizard Tournament in order to have him touch a portkey? Why couldn't Moody/Crouch have just made any old thing into a portkey and thrown it in Harry's path sometime during the school year, or even hit him over the head with a spell? Why, exactly, is everyone so afraid of Voldemort? Is it only because he killed a lot of wizards/witches? Or was his reign of terror even more terrible in some way? But here are some others that she might, possibly, be willing to answer: (Most of these are taken from a post I wrote a long time ago about HP Mysteries) Does Snape really want the Defense against the Dark Arts job or is that just a rumor that the Hogwarts students have made up? How many students attend Hogwarts? Are there any other Gryffindor girls in Harrys year aside from Hermione, Parvati and Lavender? In SS/PS, Nearly Headless Nick says he hasn't eaten anything in nearly 400 years, but in CoS (at the Deathday party) it turns out he's been dead for 500 years. Which is it? How did Hagrid get the key to the Potter's Gringotts vault? How do the Dursleys get back to land from the Hut on the Rock, since Hagrid and Harry take the boat when they leave? [Not that we really care about the Dursleys troubles, but JKR might come up with a fun answer] How do new Hogwarts students who come from muggle families know how to find Diagon Alley and Platform 9 3/4? How come Moaning Myrtle is able to flood the bathroom? (Ghosts are supposed to be able to pass through matter without disturbing it, and there are numerous references in the book to them doing so, such as Professor Binns entering the classroom through the blackboard) How did Fawkes get into the Chamber of Secrets? Do Harry and Hermione show up twice on the Marauder's Map while they are time traveling? How come no one except Lupin ever noticed while looking at the Marauders Map that Ron is always accompanied by Peter Pettigrew? In PoA, when they are returning to the castle from the Shrieking Shack, Lupin turns into a werewolf when the clouds part to show the full moon. But if he only changes when the full moon is visible, why doesn't he just stay inside? What's the difference between a wizard and a warlock? Dumbledore's card (from the Chocolate Frogs) says that one of his accomplishments is the defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in 1945. Is Grindelwald supposed to be Hitler, or one of his allies/advisors? Does that explain why the Allies won World War II? [I think that this would be a particularly fun question to ask her; I intend to submit it myself on the AOL chat.] Where do kids from wizard families go to school before they are old enough for Hogwarts? They have to learn to read and write somehow, but if they went to regular schools wouldn't all the muggle kids learn more than they should about witches and wizards? What was in the letter that Dumbledore left with Harry on the Dursley's doorstep when Harry was a baby? Is it realistic that Harry, whose major passion in life is Quidditch, would completely stop playing for an entire year (in GoF)? How come they don't seem to even have "pickup" Quidditch games at Hogwarts, they way they do when Harry is visiting the Weasley's house? -- Joywitch From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Oct 16 19:58:36 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:58:36 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets In-Reply-To: <200010150327.e9F3RYU10811@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001016124314.02837230@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3739 At 11:26 PM 10/14/00 -0400, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: >Hermione: Prairie Dawn from Sesame Street (can't you just see Prairie >starting >S.P.E.W.?) Yes! >Percy: Sam the American Eagle from the Muppet Show I'd say Sam as Snape and Bert as Percy. >Colin Creevey: Elmo ("Can Elmo take Harry Potter's picture?") I saw Elmo as Dobby. >Can anybody think of a good Muppet-Ron? Farley, from Sesame Street? Some others: Lockhart: Guy Smiley Prof. Binns: Prof. Hastings (For those too young to remeber him, he was a professor on early S.Street who put everyone to sleep, including himself). Hmmm... Can't think of any others -- Not many Monsters or Grouches in the Harry Potter universe... -- Dave From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 19:58:08 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:58:08 -0000 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing In-Reply-To: <006b01c037aa$91303ec0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8sfmkg+9mek@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3740 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: Someone that bitter and cynical must have > been really idealistic at one time. Snape seems to me to be someone who's > suffered severe disappointment and hurt in his life, and is taking it out on > the world. > > Jinx I agree that he must have suffered a severe disappointment and hurt in his life. But when and what? I think it does go WAY back. How does an 11 year old know so many curses? Who taught him? Why has he always been interested in the Dark Arts? Is it because that is the life he likes? Or is he interested because something has happened to him (some Dark Art thing) and he is trying to find a way out of it. I have to believe he lost someone close to him also. I can think of so many other questions but I don't have the time right now. Now Amanda, don't write back and tell me the person he lost was Lily. You know I don't believe that theory! LOL Martha From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 20:18:15 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:18:15 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: reactions to Dementors References: Message-ID: <00a101c037ae$3c163760$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3741 In PS/SS, Fred, George and Ron tell her not to cry and that they > > will send her owls. Ron doesn't seem to torment her that much either. > > In fact, her brothers are rather protective of her as witnessed in > > GoF > > when Fred and George grab her hand and run with her into the woods. > > On the other hand, in CoS they try and cheer up Ginny after the first > attacks by leaping out at her with masks on, so they're not exactly angels. > > Jinx > > they *are* adolesant boys with (I think) a limited understanding of what > might cheer ppl up - I bet they think its great Oh, I never said they didn't like her. Just that they're big brothers and teasing their younger sister is what big brothers do. Jinx From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 20:14:44 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:14:44 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <39EB4B6F.1DEEA0FC@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sfnjk+leoo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3742 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hmm . . . I interpreted her response of "well-spotted" as being a > confirmation that they are the same person. (Mrs. Figg and Arabella Figg) Agree. > Since she included "(naturally)" after her response, I took it to mean> that it's more likely than not that the other Marauders are also > Gryffindors. Also thinking this may be so, plus that Lily is *not* related to Vold. > > Did she confirm that Vold _is_ the last descendent of Slyth, or just> > confirm that it was supposed to be descendent, and not ancestor? > > See my post earlier. I'm not sure but what she didn't just muddy the> issue a fair bit. Seemed to me she was saying "Yeah, it was > deliberately supposed to be ancestor." But, then, I'm not at all sure I> understand her response. I thought she meant to save the editions that had 'ancestor', because they might be worth something someday, but that 'descendent' is the correct term. Doesn't sound like there was any confirmation that Vold is the only person related to Slyth running around. > The 1000 students seemed off-the-cuff & not well-thought out to me. How> do you explain that Harry has such a small class if there are really> 1000 students there? That would be 150 students per year, which works> out to be roughly 35 per House per year. Why would there only be 8> Gryffindors that year if there should be closer to 35? Makes *no* sense> to me. Well, my image of 800 is from the Quid game when 3/4 of the crowd are rooting for Gryff, and 200 are for Slyth. Before this statement, I didn't have a very clear picture of the number of students, just that there were *hundreds* in a vague way. 200 students per house would give about 25-35 per year (boys and girls) which 'sounds' right to me. Through school, my classes were always about this size, so that was my reflex assumption. This doesn't account for some of the small class sizes, or why there are only five boys in Harry's dorm each year; maybe there are a couple other dorm rooms for the other boys in the same year. She has not clearly explained it. > I couldn't decide if she was also confirming that James was in > Gryffindor since the Question asked about what position he played for> the Gryffindor Quidditch team. She confirmed the position but not the> House. > > Penny I missed the part about being on the Gryff team, this is a very good point. Kelley From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 20:22:57 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification Message-ID: <20001016202257.27702.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3743 --- Susan McGee wrote: > > > > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before > in one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? For child, I would have to say Hermione Granger because I'm about following the rules even when I do want to rebel (I think, "Well, I don't want to do this but if I don't, the consequence outweighs the fun"), sometimes I come off as bossy, and I have a bad habit of discouraging people, but I get that from my grandmother. As for adult, I like to think Arthur Weasley because like him, I have deep fascinations with simple things and get excited about the littlest and simplest things like he does with Muggle technology. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 20:33:53 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:33:53 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat In-Reply-To: <39EB4991.1D0124FB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sfoni+uaht@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3744 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I think that must have been from someone else because mine was phrased> differently & definitely said HP for Grownups. That was your question about the ancestor/descendent though, right? > I know!!!! That was *so* frustrating! It's like "PLEASE ask something> original; anything . . . just so it's ORIGINAL!!!" Of course, many of> the questioners *were* kids so they can be forgiven for not knowing> every detail of her life & not having all the details of her previous> interviews at their fingertips but . . . . I was also tired of all the> questions about the movie, casting & merchandise. Who cares what she> thinks about a proposed video game? I want to know whether Snape is a> vampire or not. > Same here. You're right about it mostly being kids posing the questions...wonder if we could lobby for an 'adults only' chat? > So, I think we should all (as many as can) log on to the B&N chat on > Friday & see about getting some more questions answered. I do think the> Scholastic chat might have been randomly selecting questions . . . did> anyone else have that impression or am I off- base? If that's the case,> there's no harm in submitting tons of questions & hoping one or more of> your questions will be randomly chosen. I asked 4 questions & 2 later> in the chat (ancestor/descendant thing; number of students; age of James > & Lily when Harry was born; age of Bill & Charlie; motorbike versus > illegal car; and a follow-up to the # of students question). Yes, they did seem random, perhaps because it was on Scholastic-- geared more to the kids and their questions; maybe the B&N chat will be more 'open'. I asked many of the same quests you did, perhaps if enough of us ask the same ones (over and over) in the BN chat, we'll get an answer... Kelley From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 20:42:02 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:42:02 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat In-Reply-To: <8sfoni+uaht@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sfp6q+3lbq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3745 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > . You're right about it mostly being kids posing the > questions...wonder if we could lobby for an 'adults only' chat? I think that would be great! How do we go about it? I doubt if she would do it but why not try? > > > So, I think we should all (as many as can) log on to the B&N chat , perhaps if > enough of us ask the same ones (over and over) in the BN chat, we'll > get an answer... > > Kelley Another great idea. I would be glad to post them myself. Maybe Barnes and Nobles won't have so many young children. Martha From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 20:45:58 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:45:58 -0000 Subject: hints about what's coming..... Message-ID: <8sfpe6+n04b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3746 Rowling said, "but if you read carefully, you'll get hints about what's coming....and that's all I'm saying". Anybody pick up any "hints" that we haven't covered? Martha From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Mon Oct 16 21:43:56 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:43:56 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sfe8g+iaqq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3747 On 16.10.2000 at 17:35:12 milz wrote: >Snape is a very intimidating teacher. (I had a Snape in high school >and college). Neville is rather meek and easily intimidated and that >makes it difficult for him to handle Snapes "tough love" teaching >method. I wouldn't describe Snape's teaching style as "tough love". I had teachers who thought the only way to overcome their students laziness and lack of interest was to really push them hard, so they would study even without accepting the value of what was drilled into their heads and have it available when they need it later in life. Snape strikes me as a person who is deeply unhappy about his situation in life and takes that out on his students. Neville can't handle that as well as some of his other students, which makes him a perfect victim. I can't see any desire to impart knowledge in Snape. Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From lrcjestes at msn.com Mon Oct 16 20:46:48 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:46:48 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification References: <20001016202257.27702.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005f01c037b2$8b62fac0$878fd6ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3748 > > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before > > in one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? Wow, we have a lot of Hermione's on this list! I for one have never been the Hermione type. I always tried to get away with as little work as possible while still getting good grades. While I did read, I spent more time on the phone or listening to music. Hermione was my sister (without the good grades)! If I relate to any of the three it would probably be Ron....it might be Ginny if we knew more about her. I was the younger sister of the prominent student in High school. She was the drama star, the student government whiz and the academic. I was the incredibly average joe (or josephine) I avoided everything my sister did and avoided most of her friends, although I did have my share of crushes on her friends. I had a lot of crushes in jr high and high school so in that respect I can relate to Ginny...shy around they guy I liked, but otherwise had trouble keeping my mouth shut at the right time, around my friends and enemies. Just thought I'd throw that in there...a window to my psyche.... carole From particle at urbanet.ch Mon Oct 16 20:52:41 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:52:41 +0200 Subject: Snape's childhood, and a very irrelevant question References: <8sfmkg+9mek@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006f01c037b3$09640f40$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3749 Martha said: > I agree that he must have suffered a severe disappointment and hurt > in his life. But when and what? I think it does go WAY back. How > does an 11 year old know so many curses? Who taught him? Why has he > always been interested in the Dark Arts? Is it because that is the > life he likes? Or is he interested because something has happened > to him (some Dark Art thing) and he is trying to find a way out of it. > I have to believe he lost someone close to him also. I read an interesting fic on fanfiction.net recently, by Earthwalk...the idea being that Snape started studied the Dark Arts because he was desperate for love or even approval from his Dark Arts happy, rather Norman Bates type mother. I forget the title, but if you're interested, search by author under Earthwalk; it's the only fic he/she's written. BTw, anyone here ever wonder about Remus Lupin's middle name? I know, I know, trust a Lupinfreak to ask...::grins:: ~Firebolt From andrea at noembromation.com.br Mon Oct 16 20:59:48 2000 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea Bonfanti) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:59:48 -0000 Subject: what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sfnjk+leoo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sfq84+5snb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3750 I don't agree with Penny and Kelley's understanding that Arabella and Mrs Figg are the same person. I believe that JKR was just acknowledging that the reader had spotted something important there. Kelley wrote: > I thought she meant to save the editions that had 'ancestor', because > they might be worth something someday, but that 'descendent' is the > correct term. Doesn't sound like there was any confirmation that > Vold is the only person related to Slyth running around. That's what I undestood, too. She meant that the editions that had 'ancestor' would be valuable in the future as collector's items. I believe she has noticed the mistake (I don't believe in the 'deliberate' error). As for the number of students, to me, it had always been hard to believe that Harry's Griffindor class had only 8 students. I mean, they have some lessons by themselves (with no other house), and JKR sometimes wrote that Harry sat at the back of the room. With only 7 other students, that would be hardly a difference. On the other hand, her only mentioning 8 Griffindors is downright strange. I was as surprised as anyone else to know that James was a Chaser. I guess I just means that we should not make hasty connections (Harry is a Seeker, therefore James was a Seeker). That may also be true about MWPP's house, although I believe that her "naturally" leads us to conclude that they were Griffindors. I was pleased with her answer concerning Dumbledore's and McGonagall's ages. It does make sense and it explains Hagrid's being over 60 as well. And, finally, we got to know something before Harry did! I'm looking forward to these next chats! Andrea (fairly new member, just setting herself free from quarantine, I mean, lurking period!) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 21:07:34 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:07:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sfe8g+iaqq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB6E16.562F3CE8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3751 Christina Gross wrote: > I can't see any desire to impart knowledge in Snape. Up to this point I was agreeing with you, but I don't think this is right. Snape has the disenchantment that comes from being truly gifted and teaching those who are taking the class to fill a requirement. I've seen it in English teachers, with classes full of education majors getting the grammar requirement out of the way; I've felt a shade of it myself, tutoring. But ah, when another truly gifted one comes along! Imparting the art is a joy. Teaching is not. Alas that he lets his surliness and house affiliation blind him to Hermione. Perhaps he's been teaching for so long he doesn't care anymore, but I'll bet my socks that this disenchantment was the origin of his snarly teaching style. If he's based on a real teacher, I'll up the ante to my husband's socks, too. Plus, plotwise, it adds a bit of credence to the theory that he's at Hogwarts partially for the protection. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 21:12:46 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:12:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification References: <20001016202257.27702.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> <005f01c037b2$8b62fac0$878fd6ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39EB6F4E.47C3DC16@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3752 lrcjestes wrote: > > > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before > > > in one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? Okay. I've decided. Molly Weasley. Looks-wise, we fit (except the hair). And she's a dreamy type of person who knows how to be practical, takes care of business, keeps things running, handles mayhem calmly, loves her family, has a giggly side, clearly is romantic, holds her own in a houseful of men, tries to impart values, is hard to fool, and has a core of steel. These are all things that if I'm not now, I hope to be. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 21:15:32 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:15:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] hints about what's coming..... References: <8sfpe6+n04b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB6FF3.9154780E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3753 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > Rowling said, "but if you read carefully, you'll get hints about > what's coming....and that's all I'm saying". Anybody pick up > any "hints" that we haven't covered? Besides the arcane hidden knowledge that appears when you hold the cover lining papers over a flame at midnight, I don't think this list misses much at all. In the short time I've been on, I've had to redefine "going over with a fine-toothed comb" several times. JKR would probably laugh and tell us to get a life, eh? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 16 21:19:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:19:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8sfmkg+9mek@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB70E9.94FFCB0B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3754 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > I agree that he must have suffered a severe disappointment and hurt > in his life. But when and what? I think it does go WAY back. How > does an 11 year old know so many curses? Who taught him? Why has he > always been interested in the Dark Arts? Is it because that is the > life he likes? Or is he interested because something has happened > to him (some Dark Art thing) and he is trying to find a way out of it. > I have to believe he lost someone close to him also. I can think of > so many other questions but I don't have the time right now. > > Now Amanda, don't write back and tell me the person he lost was > Lily. You know I don't believe that theory! LOL Now, now. Just because one thing was causative doesn't mean there's only been one causative event in his life..... Actually, you have a point. I'm betting he was sensitive and impressionable, and I can see that the Dark Arts can be made to appear glamorous and alluring if packaged correctly. I mean, I was the girl who always wanted Dracula to win in the old Hammer movies.....perhaps in Snape's youth he had an adolescent crush (and I am not implying anything physical, here--I mean the emotional, identification kind of thing) on some practitioner of the Dark Arts (who indulged or encouraged him), and then got a glimpse of what it's *really* like. That's an emotional shock, and one sufficient to turn an idealist into a cynic (those are the correct polar opposites). --Amanda he did *too* love Lily! neener, neener From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Mon Oct 16 09:35:40 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:35:40 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: J.K. Rowling Appearances References: <8sdq1j+ga2q@eGroups.com> <39EA6FBA.A846E60B@swbell.net> <008a01c0373e$e3927460$f6cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3755 do you think she'll answer the wand one? It's not like she can come out and say, well actually I was a bit tired that night and I slipped a bit when I was writing that bit?ditto the ancestor/descendant one - thou I would love her to settle it for all time.the gleam - that's too plot line - she'll not be giving that away. Ok so now I've just shot down all your ideas and I have nothing to contribute. great. storm Denise Rogers What about the wand issue, with Lily and James apparently switched, Penny, or the "gleam" ? (Sees the shudder, lol!) ----- Original Message ----- I submitted a question from our group re: the number of students at Hogwarts. My plan is to also submit one question from the group to the B&N interview & to the Scholastic interview (I have no idea how to get into the AOL interview while it's going on). I'm trying to go for questions that would be relatively easy for her to answer (brief questions that elicit rather brief replies). I decided that the number of students issue falls into that category for the most part. Does anyone want to give me some thoughts on 2 other questions for these other interviews? Some of our oft-debated questions tend to involve rather detailed or lengthy explanations to get the point across (and can likewise be expected to require more detailed answers frome her) - therefore are unlikely to be selected by the moderator or answered. I had thought about the ancestor-descendant debate -- the question itself could probably be phrased relatively simply if I try hard. Any thoughts? Of course, you're all free to submit as many questions individually as you like. I just thought it might give our adult fans some publicity if the question specifies it's from a group of adult fans & asks a thoughtful question (but one that doesn't require her to write a volume in response). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Oct 16 21:28:16 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:28:16 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat---more comments In-Reply-To: <39EB4991.1D0124FB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sfrtg+3uso@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3756 Simon wrote: > I was quite impressed at some of the questions answered, JKR told us quite a > bit - I expected to have been kept in the dark about Lily's house until the > end. Me too. I was convinced that would be part of the big denouement of the series, or at least an important revelation. She did give more info and comments than I expected. And Martha-- I would love to beg someone for this (adult chat), but I wouldn't have any idea how to go about it. Perhaps through her British publisher? Anyone have any ideas? Maybe just lots of snail mail pleading our case? I'm willing. I know I'm being a real post-er child today, but I also want to talk about one other topic in the chat: wizard ages. Since JKR confirmed theories of many folks here that they have longer lifespans, what does this do to our timelines and estimates of ages and so forth? The Marauders, Lily, Snape, Molly, Arthur, Charlie, Bill---heck every wizard adult, could be aged differently than we thought. Vold and Hagrid seem to be the only ones we can be fairly sure of; plus, McG is not much older than Vold, would she maybe have known him in school? And, does a longer lifespan mean longer fertility periods for withches? Lily might've been 50 when she had Harry. Hard to say now. If Dumble is 150 and getting to look old and tired, then I guess a 70 yr. old McG is just middle-aged. And a young-looking Lupin could be 40 or maybe more, right? Molly and Arthur could be 60 or so. Anyone care to comment or theorize? Steve, what will this do to your timeline? In a roundabout way, does this confirm your 'different time for wizards' theory? Kelley--giving you guys a break now From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 21:28:16 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:28:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: what did we learn from this? References: <8sfq84+5snb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB72F0.C4B12562@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3757 Hi --- Andrea Bonfanti wrote: > Kelley wrote: > > I thought she meant to save the editions that had 'ancestor', > because > > they might be worth something someday, but that 'descendent' is the > > correct term. Doesn't sound like there was any confirmation that > > Vold is the only person related to Slyth running around. > > That's what I undestood, too. She meant that the editions that > had 'ancestor' would be valuable in the future as collector's items. > I believe she has noticed the mistake (I don't believe in > the 'deliberate' error). Well, that's a fair interpretation of that last bit (saving the ones with the "mistake" in them). But, I still don't understand why Scholastic has reverted back to using "ancestor" in the paperback versions & I still haven't heard anyone from the UK who claims to have a later edition of CoS that has the reference changed to ancestor. So, for now, I'm not too believing that the error wasn't in fact "deliberate" or that it was just an error that's been corrected in later versions. :--) Yes Kelly -- the ancestor/descendent question was mine! I'm probably the only one who would put that on my list of questions to ask! :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Oct 16 21:39:25 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pengolodh=20at=20the=20boards?=) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:39:25 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Number of students issue Message-ID: <20001016213925.17587.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3758 Though I am rather new here, I'll dare to give some quickly typed (it is nearing midnight here) input on the subject 1000 Hogwarts students or not. It is as good a topic with which to make one's debut as any, I guess. I find that a number of students in the region of 800-1000 students is quite believable. Harry was born ca. one year before the fall of Voldemort, if memory serves me properly, and consequently conceived 9 months before that again. Before Voldemort's demise at the forehead of a baby, times must have been really bad for the magical population in England, with death and suffering looking more and more inevitable as Voldemorts power grew. It is a community under occupation or siege. That would not be a situation in which (most) people wopuld choose to have have many children, and birthrates might be lower than they otherwise would have been. Then Voldemort falls. The joy, that Rowling has hinted on, must have been truly overwhelming. Suddenly, there is a sence of security, and hope for a good future, a future that would be promising for their children. One might expect that there was a babyboom starting about one year after the fall, of which Dennis Creevey was a part. This would be similar to what happened in nroway, after the German occupation ended. The next few years saw a dramatic increase in the rate of childbirths. I therefore think it possible that the generations up to and including that of Ginny Weasley where at an artificially small size, and that those that followed for a few years, were at an artificially large size. I recall mentions of empty classrooms at Hogwarts; this may lend credibility to my theory - the number of students has been smaller than that for which the Castle was designed. One might discuss if 1000 students is the current number or the "normal" number they would have had without the interference of Voldemort. The fact that there are only 5 boys in Harry's dorm may also be the result of Gryffindor not getting the lion's share (no pun intended) of the students that year. I suspect that is the case every year - Rawenclaw getting the largest part of the studentbody each year would not surprise me at all. Slytherin strive for particular cunning and ambition, Gryffindor for particular bravery and adventurous spirit, Hufflepuff goes for hard work and loyalty, while Rawevnclaw goes for academic study and the lore of books. I will close with a few questions that probably demonstrate graphically that I have only been here for a short time, and that I have not had time to search through all the messages. ;-) Is there any mention that there are always 5 boys and 5 girls in each Gryffindor year? Do we at all know how many girls there are? (And is Blaise a name for a girl or a boy? I see rather much fanficiton treating Blaise as a boy's name, which does not agree with my impression of the name) With regards from North of the Arctic Circle (and hopes that this message is not too muddled up in spelling and structure :-)) Christian Stub _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 16 21:46:13 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:46:13 -0000 Subject: Chapter Fifteen: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang Message-ID: <8sfsv5+rimv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3759 Argh! You can't get to the computer for the weekend and then look what happens (only 400 messages to catch up on.) Oh Well...As for my character analysis goes I'm looking for the text files on the computer so that I can do word searches and such, thereby eliminating the need for labourious page skimming...can somebody give me a link? Now, down to business.... * * * CHAPTER 15: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. Pages 228-247 (American version) Harry wakes up and immediately writes to Sirius, having just received a letter the previous night saying that he was flying north at once. In it, Harry explains to Sirius that he just imagines the whole ordeal, saying "I was half asleep when I wrote to you last time."1 That was a lie, Harry, you didn't imagine your scar hurting and you know it." Hermione admonishes Harry over breakfast, After Harry has sent the note via Hedwig. Ron put an end to Hermione's diatribe and for once she heeds him. Then Harry tries hard not to worry, over the next few weeks, about the reply he will be getting. In Defence Against the Dark Arts, however something else occupies Harry's mind. Moody is going to to put them each under the imperious curse. Hermione makes a query into the "legal-ness" of this curriculim but is quieted by Moody after an invitation to leave. The class begins to go through the curse, one by one and each student does something extraordinary. Among other things Dean Thomas hops around the room singing the National Anthem...(would this be "God Save the Queen" or perhaps the wizards have there own nat'l anthem.) Harry's turn is next and he unlike all of his classmates is able to fight it. The first time he only half throws it off, and runs headlong into the desk after two little voices in his head have a row. Moody in response to this says "...Potter, very good indeed! They'll have trouble controlling YOU." (you being in italics). Now any Ideas as to why he made this comment? Possibly just caught up in being Moody? (And also Harry is put through the paces four times, before he can throw off the curse...)2 A short discussion of how paranoid Moody is brings us to an example of How much more work the kids seem to be getting as fourth years. Ex. Hermione is the only one in McGonagall's class that can turn a hedgehog into a pincushion (and I MUST question the practicality of this. Why would one want to do this?) In their other classes Snape is threatening to poison them and Hagrid wants them to come and take notes on the Skrewts in the evenings. Draco refuses and Hagrid, reminding him of the Ferret incident shuts him up. Back in the Castle the trio discovers a sign that say that the students from the other Tri-wizard schools will arrive on October the 30th at 6 o'clock. They can only read the sign because Ron is tall and can see over the crowd. (See he is good for something! ...kidding!) This makes them ALL excited because they get to miss part of potions. Nota Bene- Also on this page is a passing reference to Cedric, who Ron calls an idiot, and who Hermione defends...more on this in my character profile. Over the next week nobody can talk of ANYTHING but the Tri-Wiz Tournament and we notice the whole castle is undergoing a good cleaning. Even McGonagall is feeling the pressure to impress. "Longbottom, kindly do not reveal that you can't even perform a simple Switching Spell in front of anyone from Durmstrang!" The trio comes down for Breakfast on the 30th to find the Great Hall decorated with individual house banners and the Hogwarts seal over the staff table. (The pictures of the H. seal have never been used in the Amercian books but I think that someone said they were in the British- how so?) Next we hear Gred and Forge whispering about the Bagman stuff, which is quite mysterious at the time. Then Ron gets started on a discussion about how the tournament is conducted, and when F. and G. are out of facts Hermione fills them in. It is no suprise that she has learned all aboout the Tri-Wiz T. from Hogwarts, A History.3 "Though of course that book's not entirely reliable. 'A REVISED History of Hogwarts' would be a more accurate title. Or 'A Highly Biased and SELECTIVE History of Hogwarts, Which Glosses Over the Nastier Aspects of the School'." She is, of course refering to house-elves. Hermione is so passionate about this and Ron et Harry are completly apathetic. It does mention that Neville bought a badge and that a few people were even mildly interested in what she was saying. Fred and George go on to explain that the House Elves LIKE their work..."That's because their uneducated and brainwashed!"-Hermione. The arguement is put to an end by the arrival of Owl post and a note from Sirius. It is short and basically tells Harry to keep him posted but not to use Hedwig. All of this is very reassuring to Harry. The instructional day is one of those where nobody is very attententive to the lessons as they are all preoccupied w/ excitement. RING! After the classes let out the trio dons cloaks and line up by houses w/ the rest of the school. McGon. snaps "Weasely, straighten your hat!" ( I CANNOT picture the whole school wearing hats, sorry but I can't....) After being assembled at the front of the school the students ponder how these other schools will arrive. Ron:"...Apparate...?" Hermione:"You can't App. inside the school grounds, how often do I have to tell you?" With a gasp, the crowd watches the delegation from Beauxbatons approach. They are in what is at first mistaken for a flying house, (no Toto we aren't in Kansas anymore) is really a large, errr very large carriage. The carriage is drawn by winged horse that only drink single-malt Whiskey. 4 We meet Madame Maxime here and notice that while she seems to know Dumbledore she doesn't trust that Hagrid will be able to take care of her horses. We also notice that the B. school colour seem to be Blue and Gold. (What are Hogwarts?) The robes are blue and they are also thinner, Harry notes. Next Durmstrang appears, quite to everyones suprise from the lake. A whirlpool forms and the ship rises up from it. Notice that there is a certain resemblance between Karkaroff and Dumbledore's appearance...hmmm. All of the D. delegation seem to be built like Crabbe and Goyle, Harry observes until he relises they are simply wearing cloaks of shaggy matted fur. Then K. and Viktor come go into the building and to Ron's astonisment, Viky is no stranger Ron: "Harry-its KRUM!" * * * QUESTIONS: 1)Why does Harry feel silly for worrying Sirius with the note. How does this show his affinity toward his godfather? His Maturity? His imaturity? 2)We've already discussed this but why does Moody put Harry under the imperious curse and paticurally why does he do it more that once? 3)Did Hermione commit Hogwarts, a History to memory??? 4) What do the clothings of the Schools suggest about their locations? 5)Why is Madame Maxime dressed in all black? (Mourning) How did she get to be Head Mistress if she is Half Giant? 6)Since Durmstrang used a ship what body of water are they near? 7)What might Hogwarts use if they traveled to another school Ok, so I REALLY killed this chapter,try not to ramble so much next time. Errr hullo? Oh yeah time to wake back up, hope you had a good kip. Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 21:51:03 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:51:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? References: <8sfids+t07t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB7847.5B8C2011@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3760 Hi -- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > Can you imagine how long it would take to sort 150 kids? I think the > enthusiastic applause would be waning a bit by the time the 70th or > 80 kid put on the hat, and dinner had to wait another hour... Yeah . . . it would be excruciatingly like any graduation ceremony where you've got more than a handful of students. :--) Also -- if you have approximately 250 Gryffindors -- how large would the common room need to be? And, would it really ever be deserted so that the Trio can plots all sorts of adventures? I'm still not believing this one. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 21:48:59 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:48:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Scholastic chat References: <8sfhqv+kkvt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB77CB.A524806C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3761 Hi -- heidi tandy wrote: > Penny, I'm flaberghasted by you! > You didn't even *ask* her what she thinks of the New York Times > creating a "children's books" list to keep GoF from being the number > one book in the country. > Well, I don't know that I care so much what *JKR* thinks of this issue. I care alot more what the NY Times thinks about this issue & *why*!!! While I have more important questions for JKR herself, I suppose I might submit that one to one of the chats anyway. Good point Heidi! I like the idea of an "adults chat" with JKR. No idea how to get this going. Snail-mail campaign to Scholastic might be a good option. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 16 21:57:40 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:57:40 +0100 Subject: Student numbers issue, blasie and ages of characters Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3762 We spend ages coming to some sort of agreement and then the author messes everything up. You would have thought they were her books or something. j/k Christian wrote: "The fact that there are only 5 boys in Harry's dorm may also be the result of Gryffindor not getting the lion's share (no pun intended) of the students that year." But it seems totally unfair, in dealing with House and Quidditch cups, for the houses to have vast different numbers of students. Also we have met too few teachers - where are the rest? You would not expect the youngest students to have met to have the senior staff for lessons if there are many other members of staff. They would teach the older students. Sorting 150 students would take hours and yet we are given the impression of it being fairly quick. Also most students go to Hogwarts on the train (this seems logical). 1000 on a train seems far too many. Using British Rail as a guide, this would be a train with 20 carriages just for the students and this is before they have to have room for their stuff. Christian wrote: "And is Blaise a name for a girl or a boy? I see rather much fanficiton treating Blaise as a boy's name, which does not agree with my impression of the name" Blaise Pascal famous French mathematician of the 17th century and male. Kelley wrote: "The Marauders, Lily, Snape, Molly, Arthur, Charlie, Bill---heck every wizard adult, could be aged differently than we thought. Vold and Hagrid seem to be the only ones we can be fairly sure of; plus, McG is not much older than Vold, would she maybe have known him in school? And, does a longer lifespan mean longer fertility periods for withches? Lily might've been 50 when she had Harry." Hagrid refers to Sirius as being young at some stage (I believe when he is taking Harry to the Dursley's at the beginning of PS - at this stage he is about 50). This would suggest that the Marauders are about 25 at this stage (so 35-40 by GoF). I believe, from what I understand the Weasley's to say, that Molly and Arthur are younger than Hagrid but older than the Marauders (the Whomping Willow was planted after Molly was at Hogwarts but before Bill gets there). I put them in their early 50's. My suggestion put Hagrid about 15 years older than Molly and Arthur who in turn are about 15 years older than the Marauders. Simon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Oct 16 22:03:23 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 16 Oct 2000 15:03:23 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Fifteen: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang Message-ID: <20001016220323.8929.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3763 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 16 21:52:51 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:52:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] whoa... [KAITLIN!] References: <8sf7a8+9l9t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EB78B3.B56B5306@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3764 Hi -- Kaitlin wrote: > Hey folks, I just realized that next week it's my turn for the > chapter/character discussions (Ch. 16, Fleur and Viktor). But you > know what? I also have two midterms due that week! :( > So please have mercy on me if I do not live up to the standards of > this fine group! Kaitlin -- I wasn't sure if this meant you needed it to be re-assigned to someone else? Could you confirm with us that you are going to do it or that you need to take one of the open weeks later in the year & get someone else to do Ch 16 & Fleur & Viktor. Thanks -- Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Mon Oct 16 22:11:01 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:11:01 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <39EB6E16.562F3CE8@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sfudl+feel@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3765 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Christina Gross wrote: > > > I can't see any desire to impart knowledge in Snape. > > Up to this point I was agreeing with you, but I don't think this is right. > Snape has the disenchantment that comes from being truly gifted and teaching > those who are taking the class to fill a requirement. I've seen it in > English teachers, with classes full of education majors getting the grammar > requirement out of the way; I've felt a shade of it myself, tutoring. But > ah, when another truly gifted one comes along! Imparting the art is a joy. > Teaching is not. Alas that he lets his surliness and house affiliation blind > him to Hermione. Perhaps he's been teaching for so long he doesn't care > anymore, but I'll bet my socks that this disenchantment was the origin of > his snarly teaching style. If he's based on a real teacher, I'll up the ante > to my husband's socks, too. Plus, plotwise, it adds a bit of credence to the > theory that he's at Hogwarts partially for the protection. > > --Amanda I do see a desire to teach the students. I just don't think he has much patience and he is letting his "problem" get in the way. The first time Harry has potions Snape gives this wonderful speech. I think he loves potions and the teaching - just not the students!!! Now why did you have to add this theory of Snape being at Hogwarts partially for protection. I think to some extent that might be true but I also think he is there because Dumbledore knows that one day he is going to need Snape. But then that should be on another post. Martha I have really been on this thing way too long today. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Oct 16 22:13:30 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:13:30 -0000 Subject: Mystery At Hogwarts Game Message-ID: <8sfuib+dfj2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3766 Okay, I'm in a quandry. I stopped at my WB store on my way home this evening, and noticed that they only had one game left on the shelves. I asked the people who work there if there were any more back in the stockroom, but they confirmed that they only had the one left. So, of course I had to buy it. My question is this: Do I open it (which my fingers are completely itching to do), or do I leave it intact in it's plastic wrapping and try to sell it on ebay a few months down the road. BTW, the game cards look amazing. So, seriously, what advice does everyone have for me? voicelady From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Oct 16 22:27:34 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:27:34 -0000 Subject: Chapter Fifteen: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang In-Reply-To: <20001016220323.8929.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <8sfvcm+d21p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3767 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Mon, 16 October 2000, "Scott " wrote: > > > CHAPTER 15: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang. > > 1)Why does Harry feel silly for worrying Sirius with the note. How does this show his affinity toward his godfather? His Maturity? His imaturity? Harry originally just wanted to know why his scar hurt. He did not expect Sirius to come back to help him, and is horrified that his godfather might put himself in danger. There is a role reversal here: Harry sees it as his job to protect Sirius. > > 2)We've already discussed this but why does Moody put Harry under the imperious curse and paticurally why does he do it more that once? By concentrating on Harry, whom Moody expects to be killed, not controlled, Moody avoids having to teach the other students how to resist it. We don't know if any students in his other classes were able to resist or not...if resistance to the curse varies widely, Moody may have been trying to find out who was susceptible. Pippin From sybylla at netscape.net Mon Oct 16 22:56:28 2000 From: sybylla at netscape.net (Elizabeth Doherty) Date: 16 Oct 00 15:56:28 PDT Subject: Harry v. Harold Message-ID: <20001016225628.20581.qmail@wwcst271.netaddress.usa.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3768 Evening all, Not to prod the poor deceased equine too badly, but I saw a quick mention of the whole "Is Harry's given name Harry?" question in the last (or next-to-last?) digest. (Sorry, didn't save it.) Anyway, I was recently rereading PS/SS, and his given name is definitely not Harold. When Vernon Dursley overhears wizards talking about the Potters, one of the things he hears is mention of the name "Harry." He then tries to reassure himself that this has nothing to do with his in-laws, and one of the things he thinks is that he can't even be sure Lily's son was named Harry: "It might have been Harold or Henry or something like that." And when he speaks with Petunia, she confirms that her nephew's name is "Harry. Nasty common name." I'm going from memory, so the exact quotes might be wrong, but the import is the same. Anyway, it's a minor point, but I remembered the thread from PoU, so I thought I'd get in on it now that it isn't a completely out of the blue revival. Take care, all Elizabeth "If your god hates the same people you do, then it is a sure sign that you have created god in your own image." --Attribution Unknown, please help. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 16 23:16:25 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:16:25 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Harry Potter News] Message-ID: <39EB8C49.3C6567E2@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3769 thjis is from the Sylvan Lane Shops people Harry Potter Merchandise Update wrote: > Harry Potter Merchandise Update - http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com > > Hi Everyone, > We've posted some Harry Potter news today. The first bit of news is J.K. > Rowling has agreed to write 2 "spin-off" books of her Harry Potter books, > to raise money for Comic Relief, a world-wide charity for Third World > Causes. "Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them" and "Quidditch Through > The Ages" will be published on March 16 next year. > Second, we've found out a bunch of information about the trading cards and > trading card game that is going to be coming out! There will be 2 > separate sets of cards, "collector cards" and Trading card game cards. > And Wizards of the Coast is working with the candy company that is making > the Chocolate Frogs, and will produce "Famous Wizard" cards that will come > with the chocolate frogs, just like in the books! You can read all about > these cards here: > http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter_index.htm#news > AOL > Users Click Here! > > We have posted a couple of pictures of the newly released 2001 Harry > Potter Calendar! We hope to have these in stock within the next couple of > weeks. They are beautiful! You can see the pictures here: > http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter_2.htm > AOL Users > Click Here! > > We only have a couple of our Mystery at Hogwarts games left, and we're not > sure how many more we will be getting between now and Christmas; they were > produced in limited numbers. It's really a fun game, very much like Clue. > You can see it and order here: > http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter.htm > AOL Users Click > Here! > > If there are any products you have heard of and don't see listed on our > site, please email us! There are so many products coming out, and I know > we don't have them all listed in our "Coming Soon" section, but you can be > sure if it's Harry Potter, we will be getting it! > If you have any questions on any of the products we do have listed, again > please don't hesitate to email us! We are here for you and for all your > Harry Potter shopping!! > Have a great night! > Deb > The Sylvan Lane Shoppe > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, write to HarryPotterShoppe-unsubscribe at listbot.com > > Make your business more productive! Instantly automate routine > business tasks like payroll, time cards, expense reports, invoices, > purchase orders, business forms and more - for free! Try > Freeworks.com today at > > http://www.bcentral.com/listbot/Freeworks From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 20:38:25 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:38:25 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Death Eaters' Song References: <06ef01c03329$e98a3b00$a4dd4b0c@cq5wu> <003001c033fc$41c55340$55c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <04b701c037ca$f96d8680$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3770 > (to the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club) > > Who's the skull-projecting gang that causes such distress? > D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! > The house of Gryffindor, we think, should have one student less > D-E-A-T-H E-A-T-E-R-S! > > We eat death! Like Macbeth! > Avada Kedavra, it's your final breath! > (Death! Breath! Yeth!) > > From Slytherin we slithered out to serve him fearfully > V-O-L-D-E-M-O-R-silent-T! > He's now alive, and come Book Five, then Potter's history > V-O-L.. He'll give Harry "L"! > D-E-M... We'll get the rest of "M," too! > O-R-silent T! Oh, very nice! Shame I don't know the tune... One point though. They're surely not all ex-Slytherins, or arresting them would be too easy. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 20:47:08 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:47:08 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie uniforms - A Question and a suggestion References: <007801c03480$e295cbe0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <04b801c037ca$fac65fc0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3771 > Also, I'm wondering - does it really make sense to have variations in uniform for the different houses? I bet the students like it - it does help if you're in a hurry. >Because I'm assuming that by the time we get up to CoS, Harry and Co. have thorough experience in identifying Houses, even if the colors might be really close (i.e. Ravenclaw and Slytherin) - so how come they mistook Penelope Clearwater, >who would have Ravenclaw blue trim, for a Slytherin during the Polyjuice incident? Bear in mind it was Christmas holidays. Uniform requirements may be relaxed. My personal theory is that they have black trim initially, but it magically changes colour when sorted. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 20:55:08 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:55:08 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl References: <20001012231001.11962.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04ba01c037ca$fd85cde0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3772 > So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, completing my HP reading. I had been > reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all four books in that time. Now, I > have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you get after a major event--a holiday > or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I just can't find anything to read > that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. I'm trying to finish "The > Godfather" for the second time (I like reading books over and over), but it just > doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books--over again! Has > anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not completley crazy. I'm on my fourth re-reading of the books already. I only bought them in August. This year. Don't worry, you're far from being the only one. :) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 20:52:32 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:52:32 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl References: <20001012231001.11962.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04b901c037ca$fc255380$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3773 ----- Original Message ----- From: Anake To: Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 12:10 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Withdrawl > So, a couple of days ago, I finished GoF, completing my HP reading. I had been > reading HP for two glourious weeks, completing all four books in that time. Now, I > have a sense of feeling...like that feeling you get after a major event--a holiday > or something. I have what I call Readers Block, I just can't find anything to read > that excites me like HP has for the last 2 weeks. I'm trying to finish "The > Godfather" for the second time (I like reading books over and over), but it just > doesn't interest me. So now, I'm thinking of reading the HP books--over again! Has > anyone else does this before? I want to know that I'm not completley crazy. > > From, > > Anake > > ===== > ========== > Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) > ==== > YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 > ICQ: 37150285 > ==== > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 21:47:34 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:47:34 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] female characters - very long and very opinionated References: Message-ID: <04bd01c037cb$02fd0900$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3774 Me too, there aren't enough crucial to the plot females. And the thing is, it would have been so easy to write a few in! Lupin could have easily been female. It's not stretching things to have two men and a woman hanging around together, JKR does it herself with Harry, Hermione and Ron. Having James, Sirius and Lycanthra (only wolfy girl's name I could think of) hanging around together isn't so far fetched. McGonagall has really proved to be a disappointment too - the first chapter was so promising, but after that... One possible way of saving her would be for her to develop a relationship with Hermione similar to the one Harry has with Dumbledore. Difficult to do when Harry is the main narrator though. Ginny has potential, and she and Hermione seem to be quite good mates. Easy to think of Ginny as a little kid tagging along, but she's only in the year below. She could be brought in a bit more. Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Sister Mary Lunatic To: Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 7:43 AM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] female characters - very long and very opinionated > Susan, I agree strongly with all your observations. It would be interesting to go through the book and count lines of dialog, totaling male and female contributions. Sometimes when I'm reading the books, I think of all the movies I have watched -- the majority of them have predominantly male cast members. (Think... War movies, Westerns, Heist movies, Science fiction movies, etc.) If the majority of the starring roles are played by women, it's always referred to as a "women's picture" and the women are usually involved in some kind of plot to wreak revenge on men. > > However, I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment of Harry Potter. Yes, it makes me uneasy sometimes as I see the long string of subordinate female characters. But I rather think that JKR is reproducing the world as it is, and not how it may be idealized by future visions of genuine equality. The only real sign of female equality seems to be the fact that Quidditch teams are not gender-biased. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Schlobin at aol.com [mailto:Schlobin at aol.com] > > ...I'd love to see this trend change. > > susan (bracing herself for the fury of the list unleashed) > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 22:07:08 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:07:08 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reading SS (American version) References: <8sa7k2+j7cs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <04be01c037cb$048fde00$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3775 > Of course the whole thing may be balderdash, but wouldn't it be > terribly ironic and oh so JKR if it turned out that Snape, being a > vampire, was in no particular danger from Remus the night he > investigated the whomping willow? Not necessarily, there's a whole strand of vampire literature which holds that vampires and werewolves hate each other and are mortal enemies! Which would make sense in the light of Lupin and Snape's history. Assuming Snape is a vampire, of course. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 22:20:48 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:20:48 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape in love (and Imperio curse) References: <8saef2+4ct3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <04bf01c037cb$05cec6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3776 > I still don't like the Snape/Lily thought. I just don't see him > going to school with Lily, watching her date James, the Potters > having a baby and still hoping that she would be his. Or after all > this time still mad because Lily dumped him or something of the > sort. I just don't see it. OTOH, we are talking Snape here, and he's just the obsessive type to hold grudges for a very long time indeed. I don't know if he'd be mad at Lily, but certainly it'd be one more thing to blame James for. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 22:41:48 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:41:48 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 'male-identification' and Snape at DE meetings References: <8sb59r+4usu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <04c001c037cb$06f3bea0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3777 > About Snape-- I'd always imagined that while he was spying for Vold, > he was teaching at HW at the time. If not, what was he spying on? > Moody/Crouch went the whole year before Dumble caught on, and Snape > would have been 'playing' himself, easier to trick Dumble. So, if > Snape was fulfilling his spy duties at HW, perhaps he was just > contacted by Vold, or contacted Vold himself when necessary. I never > pictured lots of big staff meetings. There are many ways Vold could > get in touch w/ Snape when he needed to, so maybe Snape never > attended any group meetings when Pettigrew was present... I got the idea that he didn't start working at HW until after the fall of Voldemort, that AD gave him the job because no one else would hire an ex-Death Eater. Prior to that, he was probably a full-time DE. Maybe their Potions brewer or something. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 23:19:23 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:19:23 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR's sex bias References: <39EA6740.759ECFEB@texas.net> Message-ID: <04c201c037cb$093daea0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3778 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR's sex bias > voicelady wrote: > > > We know that JKR wrote these stories for herself, but OF COURSE her main objective was in getting them published so that other people could enjoy them, too. And I wonder if subconsciously she made the story more geared to boys than girls. Statistically speaking, girls are bigger readers than boys, and there is less of a social stigma for a girl to read a "boy" book. > > I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with me. I never particularly cared nor noticed the gender of the heroes or bad guys in my books. I cared what they *did,* how they felt, their thoughts. When I remember marking gender especially, it was because it was appropriate to their character, and seemed to fit them like a good soundtrack fits a movie--adds, enhances, but generally is part of the experience, not something heard separately. I've thrown way more than > my 2 knuts into these discussions when I thought I had something interesting to say, but it's not the way I think, or read. Am I really that weird? > > --Amanda Well, I never really pay much attention to the genders while I'm actually reading. But after, when I'm musing on the story, and trying to write myself into it somehow, these things occur to me. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 20:59:09 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:59:09 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British Govt Question References: <8s5dl4+2q1p@eGroups.com> <39E6505E.2E7A8CE9@texas.net> Message-ID: <04bb01c037ca$fed57f60$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3779 > I sort of got the impression it was a part of the British government, else > why would Fudge have been able to brief the "Muggle Prime Minister" about > Black? I assume the wizarding world's existence is a need-to-know thing in > the higher circles of Muggle government. Plus there's the fact that all the Muggle born kids are British citizens. What is the government supposed to think when large numbers of kids reach 11 then disappear, and don't go to any known school, never get a known job or pay tax, or anything else... I think the government's got to know something. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 21:40:38 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:40:38 +0100 Subject: Vampires References: <8s8tt1+52ua@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <04bc01c037cb$00347320$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3780 About Brooks's comment on vampires: There are numerous variations on > the vampire myth, and though I am not that knowledgable about them, I > have heard two contrasting versions, one in which anyone who is > killed by a vampire becomes a vampire, and one in which the vampire > has to let the victim drink from him/her. In any case, their one > method of reproduction is to kill humans and make them vampires, so > it would be hard to see how Snape could be half vampire. If the > fetus theory is true, the absorption of some of the vampire blood > woud probably be enough to make him a TOTAL vampire. It really is an > all or nothing deal. Anyway, I think the Snape as vampire theory is > utter balderdash, based on totally circumstantial evidence, but it is > so popular, I am forced to at least consider it. I'll admit it's > interestng to talk about, even if I don't believe it for one second. In the Vampire: The Masquerade fantasy game, there's half-vampires known as ghouls. They're mortals who serve vampires and are given vampire blood to drink. This renders them immune to all illnesses, stops them ageing, makes them heal faster, and allows them to learn some vampire powers, as well as use the vampire blood for various things. Yet they're still human, and will revert to human if all the vampire blood in them gets used up and they aren't given anymore. (Unless they've lived past their normal lfietime, in which case they die.) Snape may be something similar, except I don't think he's bound to a vampire master in the same way ghouls are. However, if Snape is vampiric, I think it's likely he's a pure one who controls his condition with a potion. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 23:17:07 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:17:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> Message-ID: <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3781 > mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > > > A strong woman type whose profession is being a wife and mother and > > loving every minute of it and wouldn't give a hoot if all the > > characters in the book were men and who thinks women sure do over > > react about many things and.......isn't this about Harry Potter? > > If I can find a sitter, I'd like to treat you to a donut for that wonderful > summation! > > --Amanda > > A fellow professional wife and mother (and an editor on the side) Just because being a mother is the one thing women can do that men can't, doesn't mean it's the only thing women should want to do. Women do most of the world's labour but own virtually none of the world's property. I don't think we're overreacting. Even if more central female characters in Harry Potter only makes a small difference to the world, it will be enough for me. Jinx From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 16 23:49:22 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:49:22 +0100 Subject: COS Ancester Message-ID: <000601c037cb$d3901da0$0d997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3782 >But, I still don't understand why Scholastic has reverted back to using "ancestor" in the paperback versions & I still haven't heard anyone from the UK who claims to have a later edition of CoS that has the reference changed to ancestor. So, for now, I'm not too believing that the error wasn't in fact "deliberate" or that it was just an error that's been corrected in later versions. :--) CoS UK Paperback ISBN:0747538484 18th Printing Page 245 - Chap.18 Dobby's Reward because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - can speak Parseltongue. CoS UK Paperback (Adult) ISBN:0747544077 4th Printing Page 245 - Chap.18 Dobby's Reward because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - can speak Parseltongue. CoS UK Clothbound (Deluxe Edition) ISBN: 0747545774 1st Edition, 1st Printing (had to wash my hands before getting this one out of it's wrapper!) Page 245 - Chap.18 Dobby's Reward because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - can speak Parseltongue. CoS US Hardback ISBN: 0439064864 24th Printing (but signed by author) Page 332 - Chap.18 Dobby's Reward because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - can speak Parseltongue. Not sure if that helps or not. All my versions of CoS (including the electronic one, which is from one of the US Hardback editions) say ANCESTOR. Nick. From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Oct 16 23:53:44 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:53:44 -0500 Subject: Chat questions Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001016184646.00a85900@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3783 Just back from a weekend break and done perusing the tons of e-mail I got when I was gone... Here's my suggestion for a question to be asked of JK during a chat. Will Ginny become a more important character in future books? Will we see more of her. . . or something like that. If not I suppose I will have to let my slight H/G preferance die out. . . ;) later *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com Most recent anime: Maho Tsukia Tai From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Oct 17 00:17:04 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:17:04 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] COS Ancester Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3784 Hey, I just checked, and MY hardback CoS says ancestor! I can't believe I've never caught that - even with all of our discussions! (Now here's where I look reeeeeeally dumb): how do I tell which printing it is? -------------------------------------------------------------- Nick wrote: CoS US Hardback ISBN: 0439064864 24th Printing (but signed by author) Page 332 - Chap.18 Dobby's Reward because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - can speak Parseltongue. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 17 00:07:52 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:07:52 +0100 Subject: Pondering a Snape thing/How Snape got the way he is References: <8sfmkg+9mek@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <052501c037d1$01c8c000$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3785 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 8:58 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing > I agree that he must have suffered a severe disappointment and hurt > in his life. But when and what? I think it does go WAY back. How > does an 11 year old know so many curses? Who taught him? Why has he > always been interested in the Dark Arts? Is it because that is the > life he likes? Or is he interested because something has happened > to him (some Dark Art thing) and he is trying to find a way out of it. > I have to believe he lost someone close to him also. I can think of > so many other questions but I don't have the time right now. I never said the disappointment was suffered at Hogwarts, did I now? I don't have any ideas though, other than that he had either Dursley type parents who frowned on their son having such a strong sensitive emotional side and tried to beat it out of him (and he turned to the Dark Arts to try and find a way of getting back at them), or he had Malfoy-ish parents who gave him very little love and attention, treating him as a possession or extension of themselves. Treated well as long as he conformed, but if he slipped up, the threat of violence was always there, hence the need to always hide his feelings. In this case, it's more likely that he was actually taught curses by his family. This all reminds me of that thread a while back on Harry being an abused child. I think Snape and Draco must have been treated just as badly, if not worse in some respects. At least Harry has always known that the D's aren't his real parents, and has never felt love for them. But imagine if it's your mum and dad doing that to you... Dudley too could be considered abused - seeing Harry treated that badly must make him wonder subconciously if one day it'll be his turn. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 17 00:25:11 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:25:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sfudl+feel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <052601c037d1$03293a60$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3786 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 11:11 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape > I do see a desire to teach the students. I just don't think he has > much patience and he is letting his "problem" get in the way. The > first time Harry has potions Snape gives this wonderful speech. I > think he loves potions and the teaching - just not the students!!! More Snapian idealism - in his dreams he would like every student to hang onto his every word and be as in love with Potions as he is. In reality, he gets Ron Weasley. Not to pick on him or anything, but Ron himself admits he's "got better things to do in potions than listen to Snape" (CoS). And if he is a typical student, then no wonder Snape's disillusioned! > Now why did you have to add this theory of Snape being at Hogwarts > partially for protection. I think to some extent that might be true > but I also think he is there because Dumbledore knows that one day he > is going to need Snape. But then that should be on another post. Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no one I'd rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's honourable, dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and backs you up no matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big way for him to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, and if you have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will not betray you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Mon Oct 16 23:53:48 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:53:48 +0100 Subject: Marauder Houses Message-ID: <052401c037d0$fee7c020$2bb8073e@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3787 Evening all, I have found evidence that Lupin/Sirius/James are all Gryffindors. Prisoner of Azkaban. Harry and Lupin have been having anti-Dementor lessons. They have a well-deserved rest afterwards, and are talking about the forthcoming Gryffindor vs. Ravenclaw match which will determine the winner of the Quidditch Cup. Lupin says "Here's to a Gryffindor victory - although as a teacher, I shouldn't take sides." Very strong evidence he at least was a Gryff. And if Lupin was, Sirius and James probably were too - inter house friendships may exist, but one's best friends are usually, I think, drawn from one's own house. And now I find out Lily was also one. Bloody hell, that's just ruined a fanfic I had planned... Jinx From landers at email.unc.edu Tue Oct 17 01:16:58 2000 From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty Landers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:16:58 -0400 Subject: Mystery at Hogwarts game Message-ID: <39EBA889.77771631@email.unc.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3788 Message: 8 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:13:30 -0000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com Subject: Mystery At Hogwarts Game Okay, I'm in a quandry. I stopped at my WB store on my way home this evening, and noticed that they only had one game left on the shelves. I asked the people who work there if there were any more back in the stockroom, but they confirmed that they only had the one left. So, of course I had to buy it. My question is this: Do I open it (which my fingers are completely itching to do), or do I leave it intact in it's plastic wrapping and try to sell it on ebay a few months down the road. BTW, the game cards look amazing. So, seriously, what advice does everyone have for me? voicelady Voicelady, that's so simple! Open it! Open it and play with it! I'm sure it's not a collectors item and if you insist on selling one on ebay, get another and do it, but use that one! From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 01:38:52 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:38:52 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <052601c037d1$03293a60$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8sgajc+lio9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3789 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > . > > Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no one I'd > rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's honourable, > dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and backs you up no > matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big way for him > to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, and if you > have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will not betray > you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. > > Jinx You"ve said it so much better than I could have!!! You bet Dumbledore wants him around. Martha From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 02:42:46 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:42:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sfudl+feel@eGroups.com> <052601c037d1$03293a60$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <003001c037e3$efe15600$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3790 For an example of Jinx's theory, see the Quidditch matches in SS/PS. First Snape tries to keep Harry on the broom, and the second he volunteers to referee the match. From the reaction of Oliver, I seem to think that perhaps he's an "Anti-Quidditch" person (meant that humourously, btw, basically the same personality as I have for Cav's basketball--the TV can stay off! I don't care one way or the other. I don't hate basketball, it's just not on my top 50 things to watch....Disney on the other hand -- as I watch Eddie Murphy playing with fire...) Hermione feels the same way I think Snape feels about it--why do you have to be "Q-centered" all the time? There's more things in life, like STUDYING! Grins. Dee Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no one I'd rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's honourable, dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and backs you up no matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big way for him to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, and if you have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will not betray you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. Jinx eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 02:52:21 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:52:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits... References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <003a01c037e5$4673b340$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3791 Jinx, I realllly doubt that unless they are muggles, we see anyone in Rita's and I's profession. I haven't seen one computer yet at Hogwarts! (Yes, Hermione, I know... I remember when they were talking about "bugs"). I have the feeling that many of the muggle professions aren't well known to the witches of HP. A doctor becomes a healer, aka Madame Pomfrey, who reminds me of the elementary school nurse I had back in the 70's. A lawyer might be a possibility, but still not certain if they exist in general, male or female. Have we seen one female politician (besides in PoU, love ya Lori!) or department person? We've seen Diggory, Arthur, and other men in the roles I am describing, but I do not recall any women in power besides Madame Maxine, who seems to hold AD's role in (France?). What roles are there available to wizard women besides Mothering? Would be interesting to see. Does Mrs. Draco have a career? Or is she the "social-type" going always to luncheons and etc....? It's worth a thought. And no, for the record, I am not a feminist, but I do prefer wearing the casual clothes of men (Why oh why must we females have the most uncomfortable, binding etc clothing to put beside our skin? I would much prefer the t-shirt boxers!). I don't know if Rita's seen this, but in Ohio, we are in a mainly male field (Computer Programming, COBOL/AS400 for me) and it is a "man's world". I also am not posing this question as more ammo for the women are being portrayed inferior discussion. I seriously want to know what you think might be women's field of careers! :) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Jinx To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha > mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > > > A strong woman type whose profession is being a wife and mother and > > loving every minute of it and wouldn't give a hoot if all the > > characters in the book were men and who thinks women sure do over > > react about many things and.......isn't this about Harry Potter? > > If I can find a sitter, I'd like to treat you to a donut for that wonderful > summation! > > --Amanda > > A fellow professional wife and mother (and an editor on the side) Just because being a mother is the one thing women can do that men can't, doesn't mean it's the only thing women should want to do. Women do most of the world's labour but own virtually none of the world's property. I don't think we're overreacting. Even if more central female characters in Harry Potter only makes a small difference to the world, it will be enough for me. Jinx eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 17 02:18:05 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:18:05 -0000 Subject: Character Identification In-Reply-To: <39E9C6FC.4328C83B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sgcst+p1q8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3792 > Neil Ward wrote: > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before in > > one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? Hermione, definitely. I was voted Miss Brain of my high school graduating class of 825 (and I'm sure to many of the kids who voted, that meant "insufferable know-it-all"). Peg From elfnorc at voyager.net Tue Oct 17 02:17:46 2000 From: elfnorc at voyager.net (Elf and Orc) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:17:46 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mystery at Hogwarts game References: <39EBA889.77771631@email.unc.edu> Message-ID: <39EBB6CA.1DC1@voyager.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3793 Greetings; I was at the Target today in Okemos Michigan USA and they had the Mystery at Hogwarts game along with the puzzles. I was able to get the calendar yesterday because the Walden Books held it for me. They sold out of the calendars in less than a day but are expecting more. I certainly have nothing against selling the game on eBay (often that is the only way some people have access to certain products) but I am hoping that Harry Potter merchandise doesn't go the way of Beanie Babies and Barbie dolls before that and turn in to a scalpers paradise to the point that it becomes out of reach of your average child. I still remember about 5 years ago that children went without the Holiday Barbie at Christmas because people had bought out whole store stocks of them and were selling them to sell on the secondary market and were bragging about the fortune they were going to make. Tina Betty Landers wrote: > Okay, I'm in a quandry. I stopped at my WB store on my way home this > evening, and noticed that they only had one game left on the > shelves. I asked the people who work there if there were any more > back in the stockroom, but they confirmed that they only had the one > left. So, of course I had to buy it. > > My question is this: Do I open it (which my fingers are completely > itching to do), or do I leave it intact in it's plastic wrapping and > try to sell it on ebay a few months down the road. BTW, the game > cards look amazing. So, seriously, what advice does everyone have > for me? From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 17 02:22:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:22:59 -0000 Subject: Revised Opinion of Scholastic Chat -- :) In-Reply-To: <39EB3CDE.3013124D@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sgd63+kddb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3794 --- I. > 6. As for the ancestor/descendent debate, at first she said "ahh. . . . > you caught that "deliberate" error. Then she said, it's supposed to be > descendant & was changed in subsequent editions (she's wrong about > that). Then, she said, conspiratorially, "hold onto that ancestor > thought . . . it might be valuable later!"). Hmmm . . . can't decide what I think about all that! I think it's fairly clear that the error will be corrected in subsequent editions, and those of us with the edition with the error, will have a valuable book to leave to our descendants (not ancestors) Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 17 02:33:23 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:33:23 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sfhf8+mr3f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sgdpj+bj9o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3795 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > Well, Denise, I think someone posted that JKR gave the info at > some 'live' event that Mrs. Figg is a squib. Is she perhaps the > person who will discover his/her magical abilities later in life? > (That could also be Filch, or Petunia--my hope, or Dudley). I would > guess that Figg ~is~ Arabella Figg, but you're right, JKR didn't > confirm it. I think she did confirm it. Why can't a squib be an ally? A warrior against Voldemort. We learned Lily's name was Evans, but this would have > been her father's name, we still don't know anything about her > mother, or her mother's family--wizards in the family tree? Since > cats are important, one that wasn't mentioned that ~I~ think will be > important is Mrs. Norris. Lily was in Gryff., can we figure the > Marauders were in Gryff. as well? JKR laughed about Lily being > related to Vold, saying it was very 'Stars Wars-ish', so do we take > this as a "no"? An obvious no, and I really hope it puts an end to that speculation. I think there are so many rich textured interpretations of Potterland that we don't need the obvious ones... From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 02:35:21 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:35:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Vampires References: <8s8tt1+52ua@eGroups.com> <04bc01c037cb$00347320$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EBBAE8.A252081D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3796 Just incidentally, or as my mom used to say, for your Table of Useless Information, folkloric vampires don't drink blood. They're harbingers of pestilence; they make people sick. Again, for those who'd like to know lots about the origins of the legends, Paul Barber's "Vampires, Burial, and Death" is wonderful. I didn't find it particularly gruesome, but I didn't mind biology class, either. --Amanda Jinx wrote: > About Brooks's comment on vampires: There are numerous variations on > > the vampire myth, and though I am not that knowledgable about them, I > > have heard two contrasting versions, one in which anyone who is > > killed by a vampire becomes a vampire, and one in which the vampire > > has to let the victim drink from him/her. In any case, their one > > method of reproduction is to kill humans and make them vampires, so > > it would be hard to see how Snape could be half vampire. If the > > fetus theory is true, the absorption of some of the vampire blood > > woud probably be enough to make him a TOTAL vampire. It really is an > > all or nothing deal. Anyway, I think the Snape as vampire theory is > > utter balderdash, based on totally circumstantial evidence, but it is > > so popular, I am forced to at least consider it. I'll admit it's > > interestng to talk about, even if I don't believe it for one second. > > In the Vampire: The Masquerade fantasy game, there's half-vampires known as > ghouls. They're mortals who serve vampires and are given vampire blood to > drink. This renders them immune to all illnesses, stops them ageing, makes > them heal faster, and allows them to learn some vampire powers, as well as > use the vampire blood for various things. Yet they're still human, and will > revert to human if all the vampire blood in them gets used up and they > aren't given anymore. (Unless they've lived past their normal lfietime, in > which case they die.) Snape may be something similar, except I don't think > he's bound to a vampire master in the same way ghouls are. > > However, if Snape is vampiric, I think it's likely he's a pure one who > controls his condition with a potion. > > Jinx > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 17 02:40:20 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:40:20 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <39EB4B6F.1DEEA0FC@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sge6k+feo5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3797 > > > > The 1000 students is closer to the number (800 or so) that I always > > imagined, but she didn't give info on how many kids per year, or how > > many teachers there are. > > The 1000 students seemed off-the-cuff & not well-thought out to me. How > do you explain that Harry has such a small class if there are really > 1000 students there? That would be 150 students per year, which works > out to be roughly 35 per House per year. Why would there only be 8 > Gryffindors that year if there should be closer to 35? Makes *no* sense > to me. > Well let's see, there are 7 years. So about 140 students in each year. If there are 7 classes in each year about 20 students per class. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 02:48:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:48:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Fifteen: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang References: <8sfsv5+rimv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EBBE03.746737EA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3798 Scott, you forgot something I think is significant. In Moody's class, under the influence of the Imperius Curse, Neville is able to do things he would never have been able to do normally, i.e., he's coordinated. It stands out to me, because of the discussions of his past--whether he's suppressing his magic ability, or whether he's the victim of an overzealous memory charm, or what. This is an indication that there *is* ability there, he's not just a screw-up. Scott wrote: > QUESTIONS: > > 1)Why does Harry feel silly for worrying Sirius with the note. How > does this show his affinity toward his godfather? His Maturity? His > imaturity? Well, he's used to taking care of himself, so he feels silly bothering any adult if he's not facing imminent peril. It shows his maturity because he's willing to face things by himself to keep Sirius out of danger; it shows his immaturity because he still thinks he *can* face everything by himself. > 2)We've already discussed this but why does Moody put Harry under the > imperious curse and paticurally why does he do it more that once? Well, he put everyone under it, but that might have been an excuse to try Harry. Harry must be an object of some fascination for "Moody," since he defeated Voldemort, and perhaps he's experimenting on him a bit so he can send notes back to his master...? > 3)Did Hermione commit Hogwarts, a History to memory??? Sure seems like, doesn't it? I think she originally read it because she hates to "not know," and being plunged into a whole new world, she researched it. But it seems to have been quite an entertaining read, and I for one retain things I enjoy. > 4) What do the clothings of the Schools suggest about their locations? The climate, among other things. But the accents and names do that, too. > 5)Why is Madame Maxime dressed in all black? (Mourning) How did she > get to be Head Mistress if she is Half Giant? Well, from one "big-boned" lady to another, dark clothes are supposedly minimizing. And vertical stripes (*never* horizontal!). Or maybe she likes black, or maybe she wants the attention on her students. > 6)Since Durmstrang used a ship what body of water are they near? Black Sea, probably. Caspian Sea? Lake Baikal? Some local lake? An outlet onto the frigid northern seas? > 7)What might Hogwarts use if they traveled to another school Hmmm. Floo powder? Sorry. Fawkes? Sorry. Probably each House would have some version of the same method, personalized. --Amanda From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 17 02:51:31 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:51:31 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Muppets...? Message-ID: <200010170254.e9H2sKU06070@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3799 >I'm no expert on Muppets (despite the fact that I used to go out with >someone who worked for the Jim Henson creature workshop - don't go there), >but there was this big hairy mammoth thing that would have to be Hagrid. >Wouldn't Elmo be more like Dobby? Can't think of a Ron, but then this IS >quite a stretch. Why, pray tell, Miss Piggy as Parvati? > >Oh yeah: Big Bird as Madame Maxime! > >Neil Oh, yes yes yes! You are right of course--Elmo would HAVE to be Dobby. And Zoe could be Winky (I can just see her in the little hat and everything). I just thought of Miss Piggy for Parvati because of her attitude at the ball--I could just see her flouncing in with the trophy on her arm. I don't know, maybe Piggy should be Fleur instead. oooo, or Janice from the Electric Mayhem--she's got the ahir for Fleur. Was the big hairy mammoth thing you were thinking of Sweetums (the giant who chases the Muppets throughout the Muppet Movie)? He would be good for Hagrid. Or Mr. Snuffleupagus. Oh, I thought of another one: that blue anything muppet (the one that Grover always ends up waiting on) as Cornelius Fudge. Maybe the 2 headed Monster from Sesame Street for Fred and George? Although I still think Pip and Pop would win out. Still haven't thought of a good Ron... Kathy (see what happens when you encourage me?) From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 17 02:54:52 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:54:52 -0000 Subject: call to action Message-ID: <8sgf1s+knnj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3800 Might someone feel moved to compile all our suggested questions for JKR's upcoming chat into a file? We could revise it in the next 48 hours....all questions might start As a member of HP4grownups at egrous.com...... I, for one, will print them out and type them all at breakneck speed into the AOL chat. If all of us AOLers did that, we might get a few questions answered: 1) Once and for all (yes or no) is Riddle/Voldemort the last remaining descendant of Slytherin. 2) Will Harry, Ron or Hermione become an animagus/animaga? 3) Will Alastor Moody stay at Hogwarts as the DADA teacher? 4) Will Hagrid and Madame Maxine's romance flourish? 5) What did James and Lily do for a living? 6) What houses were the Four Marauders in? 7) Why didn't Dobby or Winky go work for the Weasleys? 8) Will you ever have any gay characters? 9) Were Mrs. Potter and Mrs. Dursley the only Evans sisters? What were their parents names and what did they do? 10) Do all wizards/witches in England go to Hogwarts, or are their "lessor" schools for wizards? 11) Who decides who gets the Order of Merlin? 12) Are any of the Hogwarts professors married or is being single a requirement? 13) Why does Dumbledore say he is holding a pair of socks in the mirror of Erised.... 14) Why isn't Hermione in Ravenclaw? More later From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 02:52:15 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:52:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Fifteen: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang References: <20001016220323.8929.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <39EBBEDF.567034B5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3801 voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > (Which came to naught, anyway. Huh. Do people even use the word "naught" anymore?) Naught often. Sorry; straight lines are my weakness, right behind Oreos. It's just a part of that expression, pretty much, now. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 02:55:53 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:55:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sfudl+feel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EBBFB8.2C9F0117@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3802 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > Now why did you have to add this theory of Snape being at Hogwarts > partially for protection. Because I'm evil. > I think to some extent that might be true > but I also think he is there because Dumbledore knows that one day he > is going to need Snape. There was some supposition that Snape might be in danger from unknown former Death Eaters, because he had been a spy and that might be known. If so, Hogwarts is probably the safest place for him. And he doesn't have the greatest people skills, either, and Dumbledore positively thrives on odd sorts, so it's probably the most hospitable/tolerant he'll find, too. --Amanda, trying for "understatement of the year award" with that last sentence From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 02:57:11 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:57:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mystery At Hogwarts Game References: <8sfuib+dfj2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EBC007.7D102123@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3803 It sorta depends on if you want to have fun or want to have money. Or have patience enough to wait til another one turns up. This from the lady whose kids begged to play with her very old Bubbles the Fish and she let them have it..... --Amanda voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > Okay, I'm in a quandry. I stopped at my WB store on my way home this > evening, and noticed that they only had one game left on the > shelves. I asked the people who work there if there were any more > back in the stockroom, but they confirmed that they only had the one > left. So, of course I had to buy it. > > My question is this: Do I open it (which my fingers are completely > itching to do), or do I leave it intact in it's plastic wrapping and > try to sell it on ebay a few months down the road. BTW, the game > cards look amazing. So, seriously, what advice does everyone have > for me? > > voicelady > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From find_sam at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 03:04:58 2000 From: find_sam at hotmail.com (Sam Brown) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:04:58 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sfhf8+mr3f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sgfkq+6fa1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3804 Kelley wrote: Since cats are important, one that wasn't mentioned that ~I~ think will be important is Mrs. Norris. I disagree. I think the important cat in the HP canon will be Crookshanks... there's something very strange about that cat! From cassandraclaire at mail.com Tue Oct 17 03:06:04 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:06:04 -0000 Subject: "there never was a wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin" Message-ID: <8sgfms+lv9v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3805 I've just been rereading SS and came upon the passage where Hagrid says that "There never was a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." Now, we assume he's speaking hyperbolically, don't we? Because at the time Hagrid is speaking, he would consider Sirius as a wizard who went bad, wouldn't he? And would that mean Sirius was in *Slytherin*? That seems impossible, so I'd have to say that Hagrid's statement is to be discounted... From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 04:05:44 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:05:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification (I think I need help with this one!) References: <8sgcst+p1q8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009c01c037ef$8c031ea0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3806 Let's see. I spent most of my highschool days in a group of 4 outcasts. We weren't the smartest in the school (That was the jocks, believe it or not!), nor were we the "deadheads" who went to the boiler room corridor and smoked the weed/cigarettes, nor were we jocks, geeks, or choir/band members (who had their own classification, lol!). We were the "others!" Even now, people at the HS still recall me as the weird one with glasses. I am not certain if that's a compliment or not? I was in OEA, KEY CLUB, SADD, NHS, PEP, NEWSPAPER, WWAHS, and a few other organizations that I can't recall for the life of me now! (Grins). I stayed at school from 6.30 am to 7pm some nights, and every Friday was there until 10-11pm, football season key club did the programs, and basketball season we ran the coat-check. Of course, this meant I couldn't see any of the action of the basketball game, but I sat on the table, watching the scoreboard's number's change. Who of the group does this sound like? I wasn't Hermione, 'cause I never had to study--things came easily to me. I got mostly A's, but with a B scattered here and there. I wasn't a Neville, because I COULD do things (But I was a size 14 in among the other girls who were all nice 8's). Who am I? Sighs. Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 9:18 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification > Neil Ward wrote: > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before in > > one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? Hermione, definitely. I was voted Miss Brain of my high school graduating class of 825 (and I'm sure to many of the kids who voted, that meant "insufferable know-it-all"). Peg eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 03:08:46 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:08:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape in love (and Imperio curse) References: <8saef2+4ct3@eGroups.com> <04bf01c037cb$05cec6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EBC2BE.9B9C9B25@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3807 Jinx wrote: > OTOH, we are talking Snape here, and he's just the obsessive type to hold > grudges for a very long time indeed. I don't know if he'd be mad at Lily, > but certainly it'd be one more thing to blame James for. Okay, this is a bit of personal history for those of you who have not had experience with this sort of pit-bull emotional baggage and who think Snape is a non-realistic extreme mental case. Grudges *can* and do last that long. It takes an exceptional act of will and lots of mental energy, and a tie to a very strong emotion. Example: My brother died at age 7 (I was 4). My mom's brother and family were at our house a month or two later. We were all listening to the last (audio) tape we'd made with Kelley in it, and my cousin (about 13) was flipping through a Reader's Digest instead of paying attention. This infraction, ignoring Kelley's voice, infuriated my father. After a long, perceivable but (according to Mom) undivertable slow burn, my dad threw them all out of the house. We were forbidden any contact with them. This meant no calls, no visiting (at least that Dad heard about), no present exchanges, etc. And this lasted until my late high school years, when things thawed. My father was not unbalanced. My father was not abusive. But my father was highly intelligent with debatable "people skills" and did have problems with handling deep emotions like that grief. He sublimated it off onto my uncle and family, and it took twelve or fifteen years for us to be able to speak their names aloud. The point is, grudges can be held and cherished until they are grudges for their own sake, if there's enough emotion behind the original trigger. The trigger itself may be nothing. But Snape's character, and his longstanding hatred of James, seems totally believable to me. Not common, not reasonable, but realistic. --Amanda From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 17 03:12:39 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:12:39 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny's eyes Message-ID: <200010170315.e9H3FXU09172@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3808 >Kathy -- you may be thinking of the audio versions -- Jim Dale very >definitely says green eyes rather than brown. A-HA! That's exactly what I was thinking of. Thank you Penny. When I went back and looked at the book I thought I was going crazy beacuse I *KNEW* I remembered green eyes. (Having listened to the audios far more often than have read the books, I guess they got stuck in my head. Thanks for reaffirming my sanity! Kathy From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 03:14:23 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:14:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification References: <8sgcst+p1q8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EBC40F.D48CF16B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3809 Hey, List Powers! Why don't you keep a list of us and who we identify with on the site? I don't remember what everyone said. --Amanda Peg wrote: > > Neil Ward wrote: > > > > > I have a question now. It's something that's been raised before > in > > > one form or another: Which child/adult in HP are you most like? > > Hermione, definitely. I was voted Miss Brain of my high school > graduating class of 825 (and I'm sure to many of the kids who voted, > that meant "insufferable know-it-all"). > > Peg > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 17 03:17:15 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:17:15 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Muppets...? Fozie Bear as Ron, of course! Message-ID: <200010170320.e9H3K9U09780@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3810 >Who'd be Dumbledore? The man with the bird on his head from Labyrinth? Oh perfect perfect perfect! And Fawkes as the bird of course... Kathy who is so pleased to have a) found that she is not the only one who obsesses over things like this and b) started a thread that hasn't gotten the H/H shippers all riled up for once (: From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 17 03:43:44 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:43:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Fifteen: Beauxbatons and Durmstrang References: <8sfsv5+rimv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002201c037ec$73face00$0fc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3811 > 3)Did Hermione commit Hogwarts, a History to memory??? No. I've been accused (or credited) on various newsgroups of knowing certain volumes by heart that I am merely very knowledgable about. > > > 6)Since Durmstrang used a ship what body of water are they near? > > 7)What might Hogwarts use if they traveled to another school With magic, the boat would presumably no more need water than the Weasleys' flying car needs asphalt. - CMC From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 03:37:13 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:37:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: questions for JKR (long) References: <8sfm0t+4eel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EBC969.B7797AFB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3812 Joywitch wrote: > Why do the dementors try to give Harry the kiss of death (in PoA)? Because he's there? Didn't they try to kiss everyone? The whole group? > In GoF, why was it necessary to have Harry win the Triwizard > Tournament in order to have him touch a portkey? Why couldn't > Moody/Crouch have just made any old thing into a portkey and thrown > it in Harry's path sometime during the school year, or even hit him > over the head with a spell? So he would be isolated for a length of time before anyone was alarmed? Wow, I never thought of this. I'll cogitate. > How did Hagrid get the key to the Potter's Gringotts vault? I'm betting Dumbledore had it. Or some other trustee. > How come Moaning Myrtle is able to flood the bathroom? (Ghosts are > supposed to be able to pass through matter without disturbing it, and > there are numerous references in the book to them doing so, such as > Professor Binns entering the classroom through the blackboard) Perhaps it's an option, not a hard-and-fast rule. Peeves is a spirit and can shake things up (I know, poltergeists are different, but he's still on the same plane). > How come no one except Lupin ever noticed while looking at the > Marauders Map that Ron is always accompanied by Peter Pettigrew? Well, Scabbers wasn't at the school til Ron was, and by that time Fred and George were just using it to check on Filch and Snape, pretty much, right? And why would Harry check his own rooms (which is where Scabbers lived)? He knows what's there; he wants to know who's around the corner. > What's the difference between a wizard and a warlock? One's a state of being and one's a rank, I think we consensused. You're born a wizard. You achieve being a warlock (elected office? award?), because there's that International Confederation or whatever. > Dumbledore's card (from the Chocolate Frogs) says that one of his > accomplishments is the defeat of the dark wizard Grindelwald in > 1945. Is Grindelwald supposed to be Hitler, or one of his > allies/advisors? Probably it just reflects that the two worlds are intertwined and interconnected. Chaos in one means there's a good chance for chaos in another. Why else point out that Voldemort went after Muggles, too? WWII was our perception of the chaos. > Does that explain why the Allies won World War II? Probably helped a whole lot. > [I think that this would be a particularly fun question to ask her; I > intend to submit it myself on the AOL chat.] I hope a bunch of us do; there's so many WWII parallels--Fudge's Chamberlain-like character, the whole pure-blood "master race" thing, this intriguing date and the Germanic name of the wizard he bested.... > Where do kids from wizard families go to school before they are old > enough for Hogwarts? They have to learn to read and write somehow, > but if they went to regular schools wouldn't all the muggle kids > learn more than they should about witches and wizards? Yeah, I wondered about that, too. Has anyone asked this one on the list yet? > What was in the letter that Dumbledore left with Harry on the > Dursley's doorstep when Harry was a baby? Tag, you're it...no, seriously. I thought it told the Dursleys that they were the only living relatives, that it would become known if they didn't do the "proper" thing and raise Harry, and that Harry would be attending Hogwarts, in all probability, upon his 11th birthday. > Is it realistic that Harry, whose major passion in life is Quidditch, > would completely stop playing for an entire year (in GoF)? How come > they don't seem to even have "pickup" Quidditch games at Hogwarts, > they way they do when Harry is visiting the Weasley's house? We don't know that they don't. But we do know the fourth years have LOADS of homework and not a lot of free time... I really want one of those T-shirts that says "I'm talking and I can't shut up" --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 03:39:18 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:39:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Student numbers issue, blasie and ages of characters References: Message-ID: <39EBC9E6.B6189767@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3813 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Hagrid refers to Sirius as being young at some stage (I believe when he is > taking Harry to the Dursley's at the beginning of PS - at this stage he is > about 50). This would suggest that the Marauders are about 25 at this stage It might also simply suggest, as we know later, that Hagrid is older than Sirius. Such appellations often outlive their appropriateness. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 03:49:35 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:49:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EBCC4E.37574A98@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3814 Jinx wrote: > Just because being a mother is the one thing women can do that men can't, > doesn't mean it's the only thing women should want to do. We never said this. And it's *not* the only thing I want to do. It's not the only thing I *do.* But it's a damn important thing, raising the next generation, no matter how much the schools try to do it for me, and I'm proud to let it be my primary definer right now. > Women do most of the world's labour we're better at it plus we remember where we *put* things > but own virtually none of the world's property. actually, I'm the landowner in our family > I don't think we're overreacting. I do, *just* a tad. JKR didn't write a sociological treatise, she wrote a work of fiction, a terribly good one with very realistic characters. There are female characters all through the book, in various positions, and while the "spot" of the prose doesn't focus on them, it shows pretty clearly that the door is open to women in the wizarding world. I don't see a glass ceiling problem, I don't see active discrimination, I do see effective characterization. I don't think authors have to try to effect social change through their work; I think they have to *write.* She does, very well. --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 05:06:43 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:06:43 -0500 Subject: One more JKR question, about Scabbers... References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> <39EBCC4E.37574A98@texas.net> Message-ID: <00f001c037f8$0b2ba280$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3815 WHY DID SCABBERS EAT/DESTROY SHEETS!??? grins. Since he was Peter, he was human. Why eat sheets? Ron wasn't feeding him enough? :) Dee (Wanted to get this onlist, again.... I mentioned it in the SS/...questions) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 17 04:22:42 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:22:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends References: <8sbbvm+p5l1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <010701c037f1$e5386be0$0fc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 3816 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan McGee" To: Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 11:31 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends > > > > > > > > > I see nothing odd in Hermione's friendship with Harry and Ron. My > > understanding of Susan's phrase 'male-identified' is that it refers > to Hermione being "one of the boys" and denying herself the chance > of female > > bonding experiences. I do think that's an incorrect assumption. If > JKR had > > not made Hermione a close friend of the two boys, she may have > ended up as > > another extra in the story or as one of a pair or threesome of girls > > involved in some side-plot. By making her a platonic, close friend > of > > Harry's JKR ensured that at least one girl was central to the > action. > > > Ah, but that's the point.....If JKR had not made Hermione a close > friend of the two boys, she would have ended up as another extra in > the story......Neil, I'm afraid you have made my whole point here, > that girls are relegated to second class....JKR is in control and she > could have made it possible for girls to be NOT extras or side plots.. > She could have made the Snape, Lupin, Dumbledore, Voldemort, Malfoy, > Black character a woman.... > > You know, I'm almost sorry I started this, because it becomes clear-er > and clear-er that women/girls are second class citizens still, > although better than 1940..and I don't want to dwell on it. I'd rather > have mostly ignored that fact Oh, now, Susan, we all regard you as a first-class citizen at HP for Grownups. And do you really think that making Voldy or Snape or Malfoy female would mollify the Gender Critics? "Rowling displays her gender-based self-hatred by displacing what she concieves of as Evil onto the diabolic maternal figure of Voldemort, in which the archetypal Female is inextricably linked as the castrating antagonist opposing the so-called protagonist, whose usurpation of the antique matriarchal symbol of the Broom in which to cavort in his Male Competitive Power Games, blah blah blah......." Besides, CS Lewis' Narnia and Disney (to cite but two examples) have super-matriarchal evil characters, and last I checked, the Feminists were somewhat restrained in their enthusiasm for them. - CMC From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 17 04:18:31 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:18:31 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? Message-ID: <200010170421.e9H4LYU27255@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3817 >The 1000 students seemed off-the-cuff & not well-thought out to me. How >do you explain that Harry has such a small class if there are really >1000 students there? That would be 150 students per year, which works >out to be roughly 35 per House per year. Why would there only be 8 >Gryffindors that year if there should be closer to 35? Makes *no* sense >to me. Weren't there about 100 round tables each holding 10 people set up for the Yule Ball? Of course, the Ball was really only for 4th years and up, but when you factor in dates and guests maybe it goes back up. Not sure what my point is but maybe this is evidence? Kathy From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 17 04:24:51 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:24:51 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets Message-ID: <200010170427.e9H4RtU27952@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3818 >I'd say Sam as Snape and Bert as Percy. I don't know about Sam as Snape, but Bert as Percy is perfect! (prefect?) >Lockhart: Guy Smiley HOW did I forget this one? Ohhh, or--wait for it--Link Hogthrob from The Muppet Show (remember "Pigs in Space"?) >Prof. Binns: Prof. Hastings (For those too young to remeber him, he was a >professor > on early S.Street who put everyone to sleep, including himself). Oh, you guys are coming up with such good ones! I still haven't seen the Muppet Ron that makes me go "A-ha!" though. I guess Fozzie is the closest so far, but he's just not sarcastic enough. Maybe Gonzo? Kathy who is enjoying this thread far too much From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 06:56:29 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:56:29 -0500 Subject: plus we remember where we *put* things (pure OT!) References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> <39EBCC4E.37574A98@texas.net> Message-ID: <000d01c03807$610025a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3819 We do? My friends always have fun with me. Whenever I get something special, or have something that I don't want to get lost, I put it in a "safe place". Of course, when the time comes, I tear apart my house, trying to recall which place was safe? It's so safe I can't recall where! So, if in conversation, my friends hear me talk about having put "it" in a safe place, they all turn to each other, and say--"IT'S LOST!" LOL Dee [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Oct 17 06:11:30 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:11:30 -0000 Subject: Schol. chat/ what did we learn ?/replies to Susan and Sam In-Reply-To: <8sgfkq+6fa1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sgqii+njo7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3820 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sam Brown" wrote: > Kelley wrote: > Since cats are important, one that wasn't mentioned that ~I~ think > will be important is Mrs. Norris. > > I disagree. I think the important cat in the HP canon will be > Crookshanks... there's something very strange about that cat! Oh, I think Crookshanks will be important, too. When the person asked this question in the chat, they listed Crook., McG's animagus, and all Mrs. Figg's cats. I thought Mrs. Norris should have been in this list too, because, like Crook., I think there's something going on there. They both seem to have some sort of powers, are not what they seem, etc. Remember how Mrs. N seems to be able to see H in his invisibility cloak? Susan wrote: > I think she did confirm it. Why can't a squib be an ally? A warrior > against Voldemort. I went back and read my post, and I see I didn't make my thought very clear. I didn't mean to imply that Mrs. Figg couldn't be of help because she's a squib, but that Mrs. Figg who occasionally babysits Harry is the same Arabella Figg from the 'old gang' that Dumble mentions. I think they're the same person, not that Arabella is Mrs. Figg's daughter or something. And, about the number of students, wouldn't there be four classes per year, at about 35 students per class? I'm very glad you'll be in the aol chat, hope you get some more answers for us. Kelley From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 17 06:15:41 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:15:41 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <003001c037e3$efe15600$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3821 > > Dee > > > > > > Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no one I'd > rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's honourable, > dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and backs you up no > matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big way for him > to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, and if you > have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will not betray > you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. Never insult Albus Dumbledore in front of me! That said, I am disappointed in my hero AD for tolerating Snape's behavior. Snape is not doing "tough love". Professor...you have Neville Longbottom in your class. that means disaster. No one learns by being humiliated, and Snape consistently picks on Neville. Snape (unlike Harry) MUST know that Neville has lost his parents to the Death Eaters. Was Snape one who tortured Neville's parents? (Perhaps not specifically, but let us remember that Snape did something equivalent or he would not have been a death eater). Obviously, Snape has redeemed himself or he would not be at Hogwarts, but let us remember the havor that the DEs wrought. (I am continuously perplexed by those who post and say that Voldemort just killed a bunch of people...what's the big deal....I guess it would be a major deal if you came home one day to find the death mark over your house and your partner and children dead?) > Snape's redemption probably warrants a whole novel by itself. Yet, his behavior towards students is inexcusable. He is absolutely and totally unfair towards Harry, Neville and the rest of the Gryffindors. He starts out by targeting Harry, asking him unfair questions, and taking points from G. Why? He doesn't like Harry's father (oooh, that's a good reason). When he threatens Harry with the truth serum, he is scary. And again, what he does to Neville is vile. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 17 06:20:25 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:20:25 -0000 Subject: 'male-identification' & Snape at DE meetings--Amanda and Martha In-Reply-To: <39EBCC4E.37574A98@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sgr39+g8mt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3822 > > > Women do most of the world's labour > > we're better at it > plus we remember where we *put* things But, for example, in Belize, where I spent a year, the men do virtually no work, own all the land, and the women own nothing. This is not unusual in the world (and I mean that the men sit in taverns all day and talk while the women work in the fields, the home and raise the children.) To say "we're better at it", etc. is to really trivialize a major global problem. > > > but own virtually none of the world's property. > > actually, I'm the landowner in our family that's great that you're the exception to the rule. Nice for you. but doesn't help most of the women on the globe. > From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 07:36:34 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:36:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets References: <200010170427.e9H4RtU27952@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <001d01c0380c$fa5f81a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3823 Gonzo would have to be Mad-Eye Moody (Crouch). That's the name, btw, Sweetums, but in the Muppet Movie he was called Jake. I still like Olga for Prof. T! (from Dark Crystal...) As for Crabbe (or Goyle, they're really interchangeable) the flying fish guy! and perhapsh harry, the guy with the dynamite? Who would animal play? The two old guys in the balcony might also be a good Weasley twins, but I agree--Pip and Pop all the way. On that frame, then Ojo would be a great Hermione! Tutter as Scabbers, lol? What about Gopher? Neville? and if you give him a wig, Robin as Ginny. (Grins, and ducks the pillows on that one...J/k!) Trying to recall all the names of the muppets is hard, folks! I do recall Professor Hastings, though. What about the amazing Mumford? He too might make a good Gileroy. Who'd be Lupin and Sirius? NOW THERE'S THE QUESTION! (Is it too late to get David Bowie, with the hair from Labyrinth???) Hoggle would be Peeves. Still think Snape is Oscar the Grouch. Dudley, one of those pigs in space guys. Or, perhaps Cookie Monster (the way he eats, and eats, and eats?) Petunia and Vernon? Hmmmm.... need more thought on that question! Ollivander would be Bunson and Beaker (altho there's not a sidekick in the book, beaker is always there with Bunson!) Colin would be Scooter (the muppet creation on Barney, who was a squirrel!) Ms. Eda would be McG! (same show) Dr. Teeth would be Quirrel. He has the intelligence to pull the role off, and he wears a hat. I can see Floyd as Lupin, maybe. He's straight shooting, and easy going. (Of course, perhaps Gonzo, who has a flying fetish, should be Oliver Wood?) ENOUGH! It's time for bed, and I keep sitting here, thinking Muppets! Good night folks! Dee (Or at least until I read my HP-Inbox!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Kelly MacMillan To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 11:24 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets >I'd say Sam as Snape and Bert as Percy. I don't know about Sam as Snape, but Bert as Percy is perfect! (prefect?) >Lockhart: Guy Smiley HOW did I forget this one? Ohhh, or--wait for it--Link Hogthrob from The Muppet Show (remember "Pigs in Space"?) >Prof. Binns: Prof. Hastings (For those too young to remeber him, he was a >professor > on early S.Street who put everyone to sleep, including himself). Oh, you guys are coming up with such good ones! I still haven't seen the Muppet Ron that makes me go "A-ha!" though. I guess Fozzie is the closest so far, but he's just not sarcastic enough. Maybe Gonzo? Kathy who is enjoying this thread far too much eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 07:38:27 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 02:38:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002b01c0380d$3d8db000$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3824 Susan, I didn't say that! Promise! Not certain why my name's above that phrase, perhaps it was a quote of someone responding to something I responded to that someone responded to...... Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:15 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape > > Dee > > > > > > Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no one I'd > rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's honourable, > dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and backs you up no > matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big way for him > to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, and if you > have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will not betray > you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. Never insult Albus Dumbledore in front of me! That said, I am disappointed in my hero AD for tolerating Snape's behavior. Snape is not doing "tough love". Professor...you have Neville Longbottom in your class. that means disaster. No one learns by being humiliated, and Snape consistently picks on Neville. Snape (unlike Harry) MUST know that Neville has lost his parents to the Death Eaters. Was Snape one who tortured Neville's parents? (Perhaps not specifically, but let us remember that Snape did something equivalent or he would not have been a death eater). Obviously, Snape has redeemed himself or he would not be at Hogwarts, but let us remember the havor that the DEs wrought. (I am continuously perplexed by those who post and say that Voldemort just killed a bunch of people...what's the big deal....I guess it would be a major deal if you came home one day to find the death mark over your house and your partner and children dead?) > Snape's redemption probably warrants a whole novel by itself. Yet, his behavior towards students is inexcusable. He is absolutely and totally unfair towards Harry, Neville and the rest of the Gryffindors. He starts out by targeting Harry, asking him unfair questions, and taking points from G. Why? He doesn't like Harry's father (oooh, that's a good reason). When he threatens Harry with the truth serum, he is scary. And again, what he does to Neville is vile. Susan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 17 07:19:00 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:19:00 +0100 Subject: Chat stuff, scabbers, character identification Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3825 Susan wrote: "Might someone feel moved to compile all our suggested questions for JKR's upcoming chat into a file? We could revise it in the next 48 hours....all questions might start As a member of HP4grownups at egrous.com......" I want too know character ages - Marauders, Arthur, Molly, Bill and Charlie (not least cause I am writing an FAQ on the Weasley Family and would like my information to be correct). I wrote: "Hagrid refers to Sirius as being young at some stage (I believe when he is taking Harry to the Dursley's at the beginning of PS - at this stage he is about 50). This would suggest that the Marauders are about 25 at this stage" Amanda replied: "It might also simply suggest, as we know later, that Hagrid is older than Sirius. Such appellations often outlive their appropriateness." But as I said earlier, Molly did not know about the Whomping Willow - so the Marauders have to be at least 7 years younger than Molly and Arthur. Penny wrote: "Yeah . . . it would be excruciatingly like any graduation ceremony where you've got more than a handful of students. :--) Also -- if you have approximately 250 Gryffindors -- how large would the common room need to be? And, would it really ever be deserted so that the Trio can plots all sorts of adventures? I'm still not believing this one." I think 40 students (school size 280) to be sorted would take about 30 minutes (some are instantly sorted, some take a couple of minutes and they have to get to the stool and then onto their house table). 150 (school size 1000) would take 90 minutes to 2 hours. Also they arrive in the dark (Chapter 6 in PS makes a couple of comments about it being dark) - in September this would have to be 8:30 pm or maybe later. If they then sort for 2 hours (allows them some time to get into the hall, which would take a while with so many students), then have dinner (at least an hour probably 2) then it would be midnight of after before they went off to bed. 11 year olds with work to do the next morning up that late? Also if there were nearly 40 students per house per year then there would be a couple of 6/7th years who would stay up very late (i.e. 2 am) - the prefects would be friends and so would just leave them to go to bed when ever they wanted as long as they disturbed no one. Harry and the others would never find the common room deserted if this was the case. 200 people in nice comfy armchairs would take a massive room. Maybe not everyone would be in there all the time - but it is able to fit everyone eating their dinner in there in PS (troll incident). There are also plenty of tables in there. It would be incredible - always very noisy - impossible to get any sort of quiet. Kelley wrote: "JKR laughed about Lily being related to Vold, saying it was very 'Stars Wars-ish', so do we take this as a "no"?" Susan replied: "An obvious no, and I really hope it puts an end to that speculation. I think there are so many rich textured interpretations of Potterland that we don't need the obvious ones..." I am not so sure. JKR deflected a valid question with a joke. This is a classic way of avoiding a subject you do not want to get into. Having said this - I think the answer is no as well - I would be disappointed if it was yes. Joywich wrote: "How come no one except Lupin ever noticed while looking at the Marauders Map that Ron is always accompanied by Peter Pettigrew?" Amanda wrote: "Well, Scabbers wasn't at the school til Ron was, and by that time Fred and George were just using it to check on Filch and Snape, pretty much, right?" Scabbers belonged to Percy before Ron. If I understood correctly, Percy got an owl at the start of PS for being made a prefect and then gave Ron Scabbers. So Scabbers would have been at Hogwarts before. Dee wrote: "Who am I? Sighs." A very difficult question! Can you not remember (j/k). I have a similar problem. I am similar to Hermione in many ways (good grades, some sort of political conscience - well this was the case while I was at school) but I was never into books in the same way, in fact I avoided books for many years, I never spent so long each day working. Also even though I played some sport I was never any good at it - so I cannot even say Harry. I do have messy hair like Harry (even if it is blonde) - it stands up at the back as well. Simon (sending this without checking it properly as have a 30 minute walk to my lecture and it starts in 40 minutes and I still need to get dressed - so apologies for any glaringly obvious mistakes) From catlady at wicca.net Tue Oct 17 07:20:59 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:20:59 -0000 Subject: Triwizard Transportation plus: Re: questions for JKR (formerly long) In-Reply-To: <8sfm0t+4eel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sgukr+clvj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3826 If the Triwizard Tournament was hosted by one of the other schools, the Hogwarts representatives would travel there by the Hogwarts Express, of course! It doesn't *really* need tracks when it has magic... If Durmstrang is in Latvia, as I believe, then its body of water would be the Baltic Sea, which is part of the Atlantic Ocean. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > Simon has a good point. There are a whole list of questions I am > dying to know the answer to that I doubt JKR would answer, like: Joywitch: As best I recall, JKR **has** answered some of these in her various interviews and chats. > > What house was James Potter in when he went to Hogwarts? > Same question for the other Marauders and Lily. In the latest chat, she told us that Lily was in Gryffindor. > What did James and Lily do for a living? Previously, she has told us that we'll find out in Book 7 and that she can't tell us earlier because it's important to the plot. > > But here are some others that she might, possibly, be willing to > answer: > How many students attend Hogwarts? She said 1000 in the latest chat. I'm pleased that the author agrees with me. I assume that, just as there are more students than we readers see except as part of a crowd scene, there are more dormitory bedrooms in each House than we see, and that the Common Room is actually a suite of connected rooms (more than one having a fireplace), not just the one room that we see. In fact, it would make sense if each House had not just one House Tournament Quidditch team, but several: the "A" team that Harry is on, a "B" team that competes against other "B" teams, and maybe even a set of "C" teams as well. From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 10:29:13 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:29:13 +1000 Subject: CMC's post on feminism/Susan References: <8sbbvm+p5l1@eGroups.com> <010701c037f1$e5386be0$0fc54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3827 CMC said - "Oh, now, Susan, we all regard you as a first-class citizen at HP for Grownups. And do you really think that making Voldy or Snape or Malfoy female would mollify the Gender Critics?" CMC - What's a gender critic? (obviously I don't get out enough) "the Feminists were somewhat restrained in their enthusiasm for them." Which feminists? who feminists? this is like saying all chrisitans believe in X (if it's not god then you're not going to be right) CMC - I think you are belittleing Susan and that's just a *tiny* bit mean. I agree with Susan, as has proably been obvious - but I've also been really interested in the posts by Amanda and Martha (to pick two), who have a very different perspective. We can't all agree on everything here and this discussion about JKR's treatment of gender has revealed some significant differances in how we all read JKR and what a diverse range of ppl she appeals to. I'm not saying that we should unquestionably celebrate this diversity and not discuss our differences but please play nice. storm eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 10:50:31 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:50:31 +1000 Subject: Why portakey at triwizards tornement? References: <8sfm0t+4eel@eGroups.com> <39EBC969.B7797AFB@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3828 Joywitch wrote: > In GoF, why was it necessary to have Harry win the Triwizard > Tournament in order to have him touch a portkey? Why couldn't > Moody/Crouch have just made any old thing into a portkey and thrown > it in Harry's path sometime during the school year, or even hit him > over the head with a spell? Susan said "So he would be isolated for a length of time before anyone was alarmed? Wow, I never thought of this. I'll cogitate." I think it was because (all join together now) "You can't apperate or disapperate insides the grounds of hogwarts" - ok so that's 1, why the portakey, 2 is why at the triwizard - well just think Volde comes back from the dead - all the MoM are there, lots of ppl, anyone whoes anyone really. he kills a few ppl, tortoues a few more - that's a pretty impressive entrance, there would be no hushing that up (no matter how fudge might try). Makes me shiver. I think I might have stolen this idea of someone on this list a from a few weeks ago, if so, I'm sorry. I really want one of those T-shirts that says "I'm talking and I can't shut up" :-) do such things exist? or is this an only in America thing? When my complainants *keep* talking I tell them "you've had your turn to talk, now it's mine" you'd be amazing how sucsessful this is at shutting ppl who are mid rant up. (this is only tangentially related to your t-shirt and is very OT but it makes me laugh) storm eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Tue Oct 17 09:55:41 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:55:41 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] call to action References: <8sgf1s+knnj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00e201c03820$6babbd20$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3829 > Might someone feel moved to compile all our suggested questions > for JKR's upcoming chat into a file? We could revise it in the next > 48 hours....all questions might start As a member of > mailto:HP4grownups at egrous.com Uhm, make sure that you write HPforGrownups and not HP4Grownups...you probably already knew that, sorry, just making sure... > 1) Once and for all (yes or no) is Riddle/Voldemort the last > remaining descendant of Slytherin. > > 2) Will Harry, Ron or Hermione become an animagus/animaga? Harry won't. > 3) Will Alastor Moody stay at Hogwarts as the DADA teacher? > > 4) Will Hagrid and Madame Maxine's romance flourish? > > 5) What did James and Lily do for a living? Isn't it better to just wait and find out for those three? I mean, if we ask everything, what's the point? Also, each one of those questions means that there's less chance for a really good question to get through...of course, this is from the girl who wants to ask what Remus Lupin's middle name is... > 6) What houses were the Four Marauders in? > > 7) Why didn't Dobby or Winky go work for the Weasleys? > > 8) Will you ever have any gay characters? I might be wrong, but I'm under the distinct impression that 'gay' is considered derogatory. Can we word that as homosexual, instead? > 9) Were Mrs. Potter and Mrs. Dursley the only Evans sisters? > What were their parents names and what did they do? > > 10) Do all wizards/witches in England go to Hogwarts, or are their > "lessor" schools for wizards? I was under the impression she'd already said that it was the ONLY one. Someone confirm this? > 11) Who decides who gets the Order of Merlin? > > 12) Are any of the Hogwarts professors married or is being single > a requirement? > > 13) Why does Dumbledore say he is holding a pair of socks in the > mirror of Erised.... > > 14) Why isn't Hermione in Ravenclaw? Addtions: - Are there any specific elements (e.g. strength of wizard/witch, personality, etc.) which determine the Animagus form of a wizard or witch, or can they choose their form? - How old are Remus and Sirius? - How old are the Weasleys? Everyone else has posed all the interesting questions I want to know the answers to, really... And, a few somewhat less serious ones...: - Just *what* is a Mugwump, anyway? - Will Norbert come back? - Any possibilities of an adult chat? - Do you ever get tired of fans asking you the same questions over and over again? ~Firebolt From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 11:23:49 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:23:49 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] call to action References: <8sgf1s+knnj@eGroups.com> <00e201c03820$6babbd20$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3830 this is a mix of Susan and Firebolt (and me) > > 2) Will Harry, Ron or Hermione become an animagus/animaga? Harry won't. How do you know? (alarm) - what about his r/ship with Hedwig? also off on a tangent - all these unreagested Amimagus running around (3 of the mauraders, Rita) how hard can it be? of course, this is from the girl who wants to ask what Remus Lupin's middle name is... (storm) you said it. > > 7) Why didn't Dobby or Winky go work for the Weasleys? (storm) I want to know this too - it's not like they wouldn't have been appreciated! > > 8) Will you ever have any gay characters? (firebolt)I might be wrong, but I'm under the distinct impression that 'gay' is considered derogatory. Can we word that as homosexual, instead? (storm) I'm gay/lesbian (goodness, how much self discloure can one list take?) I don't think its derogartory, OTOH, homosexual sounds like somebodys *very* uncomfortable but trying hard to be cool parent (IMO) > 9) Were Mrs. Potter and Mrs. Dursley the only Evans sisters? > What were their parents names and what did they do? YES! I'll have to give up my long held fantasy that Mrs P and Mrs D surname was "Bloom" but never mind. > > 10) Do all wizards/witches in England go to Hogwarts, or are their > "lessor" schools for wizards? I was under the impression she'd already said that it was the ONLY one. Someone confirm this? I think she has, maybe Hogwarts has some kind of achedimic (only related to magic ability) streaming so the Ernie's of the world still go there but get to learn other (simplier?) things (firebolt) Addtions: - Are there any specific elements (e.g. strength of wizard/witch, personality, etc.) which determine the Animagus form of a wizard or witch,or can they choose their form? - How old are Remus and Sirius? - How old are the Weasleys? (storm) yes excellant!And of course, what is Lupin's middle name? (firebolt) - Do you ever get tired of fans asking you the same questions over and over again? lol - storm - btw for anyone who is still reading, where Mr Mike the Goat? has he dissappeared - I haven't seen him post for a while and he is funny (i'm a sucker for a laugh) eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 17 10:28:59 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:28:59 +0100 Subject: Questions for JKR Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3831 Mixture of stuff from Storm, Susan and Firebolt: "Harry won't.[become an animagus] How do you know? (alarm) - what about his r/ship with Hedwig? also off on a tangent - all these unreagested Amimagus running around (3 of the mauraders, Rita) how hard can it be?" It is from some interview - maybe Penny knows which one. Mixture of stuff from Storm, Susan and Firebolt: "Do all wizards/witches in England go to Hogwarts, or are their > "lessor" schools for wizards? I was under the impression she'd already said that it was the ONLY one. Someone confirm this? I think she has, maybe Hogwarts has some kind of achedimic (only related to magic ability) streaming so the Ernie's of the world still go there but get to learn other (simplier?) things" It was confirmed in an interview with BBC radio 1. If you go to their website they may still have the chat their (wanders off to check). http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/mayo.shtml Part way down there is a link to listen to the interview. There maybe a transcript but I do not know where. I cover the main points in messages 4666/7 (archive stuff of course) http://www.egroups.com/message/HPforGrownups-Archives/4667 Simon From dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt Tue Oct 17 10:39:55 2000 From: dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt (Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:39:55 +0100 (WET DST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <052601c037d1$03293a60$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3832 On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Jinx wrote: > Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no one I'd > rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's honourable, > dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and backs you up no > matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big way for him > to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, and if you > have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will not betray > you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. > > Jinx I have to admit he is quite an interesting character, but I think the Snape fans have been hearing each other for too long now! (wait a second don't shoot me) You've turned Snape into a saint! Let's not forget that he betrayed Voldemort, though we still don't know why. Even if that may be considered a good action, if he's played double agent, how would that make him trustful? I don't think we read enough of him to say if he's loyal, but I've the feeling that he is now at least. Or else Dumbledore wouldn't trust him, would he? But then again he didn't get Moody's fakeness. Diogo From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 17 10:50:22 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:50:22 +0100 Subject: Snape and fan fiction Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3833 Diogo wrote: "You've turned Snape into a saint! Let's not forget that he betrayed Voldemort, though we still don't know why. Even if that may be considered a good action, if he's played double agent, how would that make him trustful? I don't think we read enough of him to say if he's loyal, but I've the feeling that he is now at least. Or else Dumbledore wouldn't trust him, would he?" There is a good fan fiction that deals with Snape's loyalty and Dumbledore's trust. It is A Second Chance by Blaise (one of the many fantastic writers that can be found on this group). And I even got round to reviewing it - as I mentioned I would on the Sunday evening (well it was evening for me) chat. Link: http://blue.fanfiction.net/master.cfm?action=Directory-AuthorProfile&UserID= 6432 Simon (who really needs a time turner - too much work and too little time - and I want some lunch!) From rhodhry at yahoo.no Tue Oct 17 10:58:57 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pengolodh=20at=20the=20boards?=) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:58:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] call to action Message-ID: <20001017105857.10534.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3834 Sundry opinions stated inbetween further down. --- storm stanford skrev: > this is a mix of Susan and Firebolt (and me) > > > > > 2) Will Harry, Ron or Hermione become an > animagus/animaga? > > Harry won't. > > How do you know? (alarm) - what about his r/ship > with Hedwig? also off on a tangent - all these > unreagested Amimagus running around (3 of the > mauraders, Rita) how hard can it be? [snip] Rowling has said, form what I recall, that Harry would not become an animagus like his father was. > > 7) Why didn't Dobby or Winky go work for the > Weasleys? > > (storm) I want to know this too - it's not like > they wouldn't have been appreciated! With Winky being in the state she was, I doubt she is quite ready for working alone in a household quite yet. Dobby may not have been aware of the Weasley's needing a house-elf initially (Dumbledore probably picked him up quite quickly), and now, I doubt that they can afford him. > > 8) Will you ever have any gay characters? > > (firebolt)I might be wrong, but I'm under the > distinct impression that 'gay' is > considered derogatory. Can we word that as > homosexual, instead? > > (storm) I'm gay/lesbian (goodness, how much self > discloure can one list take?) I don't think its > derogartory, OTOH, homosexual sounds like somebodys > *very* uncomfortable but trying hard to be cool > parent (IMO) > I agree. The term "homosexual" sounds very academic/educational. The term gay may have been intended derogatory at first, but it has been "conquered" (sp?), and as such it is not conceived as derogatory by those to whom it matters most (I have to work more on my sentence-structures). While I am interested to know whether there will be a gay or lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a nice gay person in there (and that she wwould not do, either, I guess). [snip] > > 10) Do all wizards/witches in England go to > Hogwarts, or are their > > "lessor" schools for wizards? > > I was under the impression she'd already said that > it was the ONLY one. > Someone confirm this? > I think she has, maybe Hogwarts has some kind of > achedimic (only related to magic ability) streaming > so the Ernie's of the world still go there but get > to learn other (simplier?) things > I am under the impression (I am quite certain she (Rowling) said something about this once) that Hogwarts is the only facility of its sort in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (or possibly all of Ireland). It would be interesting to know if magical children from the Republic of Ireland go to hogwarts, or if they have a separate facility following their independence. Also, what is the magical educational facility of Scotland? I am fairly convinced that the facilities of magical education in Britain are organized the same way as heraldry, possibly even with separate laws and ministries for Scotland and the rest of Britain. [snip] "aan koma meyiar margs vitandi rir, r eim s er und olli stendr; Ur hto eina, ara Verandi skro ski Skuld ena riio; r log logo, r lf kuro alda bornom, rlog seggia." _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt Tue Oct 17 10:57:27 2000 From: dmpmr at mega.ist.utl.pt (Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:57:27 +0100 (WET DST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] cat Crookshanks In-Reply-To: <8sgfkq+6fa1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3835 On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Sam Brown wrote: > I think the important cat in the HP canon will be > Crookshanks... there's something very strange about that cat! I subscribe that thought :) If I'm not mistaken, almost everywhere there's an action including that cat, JKR gets it into acting like a human. I can remember in GoF when Ron and Harry were making their homework and predicting Harry's death, Crooshkanks looked at them as Hermione would have... that's very suspect. Unless Hermione was doing the Imperio curse at the cat :))) I'd say Crooshkanks has too much human-like profile. Any lost animagi? Diogo From particle at urbanet.ch Tue Oct 17 11:47:34 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:47:34 +0200 Subject: Animagi, lower-stream schooling, Crooks, etc. References: <8sgf1s+knnj@eGroups.com> <00e201c03820$6babbd20$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <001301c03830$0a3672a0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3836 > (storm) How do you know? (alarm) - what about his r/ship with Hedwig? also off on a tangent - all these unreagested Amimagus running around (3 of the mauraders, Rita) how hard can it be? A few months ago, my pet theory was that there was once a fifth Marauder who was female, but ended up turning against the others out of jealousy because even Peter was a rat, and she was just a beetle, so her name (Shiny? Bugeye? Squishy? Stalks[like antennae - hey, antlers aren't prongs, either]? okay, okay, will stop now...) wasn't on the Marauder's Map, and... For obvious reasons, I never really thought about writing a fic for it..^_^. > of course, this is from the girl who wants to ask what Remus Lupin's middle name is... > > (storm) you said it. Hail, fellow Lupin freak. > (storm) I'm gay/lesbian (goodness, how much self discloure can one list take?) I don't think its derogartory, OTOH, homosexual sounds like somebodys *very* uncomfortable but trying hard to be cool parent (IMO) Oh, okay. I just wanted to check because I have distinct memories of this guy in my class saying 'You're lesbians!' to these two girls in a lunchroom, and they replied telling him he was gay, and both terms had clear 'sous-entendus' of 'you're stupid'. Of course, this was in 5th grade, but then, I haven't been in an American school system since 6th...anyway, I wanted to make sure. > (storm) I think she has, maybe Hogwarts has some kind of achedimic (only related to magic ability) streaming so the Ernie's of the world still go there but get to learn other (simplier?) things How come Harry hasn't commented on it? And then, how could they tell who to put in which stream? Does the Sorting Hat tell the teachers, and then the teachers give the students their schedules the next morning, when things have been Sorted out? But that still doesn't explain why Harry hasn't mentioned a single one of the lower stream students...the only way I find it plausible is if there's another, second Hogwarts campus (my school has three different campuses, and might soon have a fourth - it's reasonably feasible) somewhere, and no one's bothered to tell Harry, or something. And then, why isn't Neville in the lower stream? Couldn't they arrange it so he had lower-stream subjects for everything except Herbology, or something? Personally, I think that maybe the Ernie's of the world learn their trade by apprenticeship, not schooling...or some combination thereof... > (firebolt) Addtions: > > - Are there any specific elements (e.g. strength of wizard/witch, personality, etc.) which determine the Animagus form of a wizard or witch,or can they choose their form? > - How old are Remus and Sirius? > - How old are the Weasleys? > > (storm) yes excellant!And of course, what is Lupin's middle name? . > (firebolt) - Do you ever get tired of fans asking you the same questions over and over again? > >(storm) lol - Do we actually dare ask this question? It *would* be funny... That's too many Animagi. How about some sort of curse, or maybe he's someone who should by rights be dead but somehow put himself into a feline body so he could keep an eye on the doings of the world? ~Firebolt From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 12:40:41 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:40:41 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8shhc9+9uu9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3837 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis wrote: > > > On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Jinx wrote: > > > Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no one I'd > > rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's honourable, > > dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and backs you up no > > matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big way for him > > to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, and if you > > have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will not betray > > you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. > > > > Jinx > > I have to admit he is quite an interesting character, but I think the > Snape fans have been hearing each other for too long now! (wait a second > don't shoot me) > > You've turned Snape into a saint! Let's not forget that he betrayed > Voldemort, though we still don't know why. Even if that may be considered > a good action, if he's played double agent, how would that make him > trustful? I don't think we read enough of him to say if he's loyal, but > I've the feeling that he is now at least. Or else Dumbledore wouldn't > trust him, would he? But then again he didn't get Moody's fakeness. > > Diogo I, for one, do not think of Snape as a saint. I never even said he was nice! But I don't think he is evi(not now). And just because he was a Death Eater doesn't mean he actually murdered or tortured someone. Of course you could say guilty by association and I would agree. We don't even honestly know if he was a Death Eater. As I have said before, would Dumbledore have really hired someone to teach kids who had murdered, tortured, or even supported these ideas? I just don't know. But I do think Dumbledore has surrounded himself with the people who he thinks can help him defeat Voldemort and Snape is one of them. Dumbledore and others have always known that V. would be back one day. V. couldn't be killed the way he was. It was just a matter of time. I just find Snape a fascinating character. Always have. But then as Ron said in GoF, "but that doesn't mean a really clever Dark wizard couldn't fool him (him being Dumbledore).... Maybe here is where JKR is dropping one of those hints she is talking about. Maybe Snape really is a dark wizard!!! Martha From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 17 12:45:07 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:45:07 -0500 Subject: # of Students References: <8sge6k+feo5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EC49D3.E88E7923@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3838 Hi -- Susan McGee wrote: > Well let's see, there are 7 years. So about 140 students in each year. > > If there are 7 classes in each year about 20 students per class. > Uh . . . there are only 4 Houses per year, so that's 35 students per House per year under the 1000 students total numbers. Why would Gryffindor only get 8 if they should have closer to 35? That's *way* off in my mind. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Tue Oct 17 12:50:53 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:50:53 -0000 Subject: Crookshanks Message-ID: <8shhvd+j9s9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3839 I've been pondering the whole Crookshanks question for a while now and I just don't think he's an animagus or some other form of human enchanted into an animal. The reason I come to that conclusion is that Sirius refers to Crookshanks as the most intelligent "of his kind" he's ever seen. That clearly implies that Crookshanks is a particular "kind" of creature in his own right. There are plenty of cat-like creatures in mythology/folklore that he could be. When I get a chance, I'll rummage through my various beastiaries and try to find some likely candidates. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~vderark/lexicon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Oct 17 12:51:33 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 17 Oct 2000 05:51:33 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mystery At Hogwarts Game Message-ID: <20001017125133.24098.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3840 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 17 13:16:01 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:16:01 -0500 Subject: Questions for Remaining JKR Chats Message-ID: <39EC5110.C0C387C7@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3841 Hi -- I will take on the task of creating a Word document with all our questions submitted over the next 36 hrs or so. BUT -- Let's not bother asking things that we *know* she's not going to answer. She is *not* going to tell us what James & Lily did for a living for example so there is no point in asking. That's just a waste of a question in my mind. All we'll get is "I can't answer that. Sorry." Most of the ones suggested so far seem fine to me though. Maybe I'll upload a file with the ones that come in today & then we can refine it, make additions & so forth tomorrow. Now -- question: what is the best strategy? Do we *all* type in as many of the questions as we can in the hopes that the questions are randomly selected and that we'll get several answered by increasing the odds OR do we divide them up in case the moderator is picking & choosing (in which case, he/she will be very infavorably disposed towards our group if we snow them under with 20 people X 30 questions for example)? I suppose I could email B&N and ask how the questions are chosen. I don't know if we'll get a response but I can try. Does anyone who uses AOL know how their chats might work? Penny From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 13:40:45 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:40:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] plus we remember where we *put* things (pure OT!) Message-ID: <20001017134045.6652.qmail@web215.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3842 Boy can I relate to that! I spent 2 hours on Sunday looking for my niece's birthday gift. I bought it in March and put it away so I wouldn't "forget where it was". um....I forgot. I think my husband found it for me. I'm also prone to finding Christmas gifts sometime in January ("ah.. I knew I bought so-and-so one of those!). Sheryll --- Denise Rogers wrote: > We do? My friends always have fun with me. > Whenever I get something special, or have something > that I don't want to get lost, I put it in a "safe > place". Of course, when the time comes, I tear > apart my house, trying to recall which place was > safe? It's so safe I can't recall where! > > So, if in conversation, my friends hear me talk > about having put "it" in a safe place, they all turn > to each other, and say--"IT'S LOST!" > > LOL > Dee > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 13:38:46 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:38:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets References: <200010170427.e9H4RtU27952@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <39EC5665.851C52D4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3843 Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >Lockhart: Guy Smiley > > HOW did I forget this one? Ohhh, or--wait for it--Link Hogthrob from The > Muppet Show (remember "Pigs in Space"?) Bingo! > I still haven't seen the Muppet Ron that makes me go "A-ha!" though. I guess > Fozzie is the closest so far, but he's just not sarcastic enough. Maybe > Gonzo? How about Rowlf? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 13:42:53 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:42:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EC575C.8EFE68FC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3844 Susan McGee wrote: > Yet, his behavior towards students is inexcusable. He is absolutely > and totally unfair towards Harry, Neville and the rest of the > Gryffindors. He starts out by targeting Harry, asking him unfair > questions, and taking points from G. Why? He doesn't like Harry's > father (oooh, that's a good reason). When he threatens Harry with the > truth serum, he is scary. And again, what he does to Neville is vile. I, for one, am not trying to excuse it. I'm looking at his character, trying to explain it. He's definitely not a cuddly person, no question, but the impression is no matter how nasty he is there's an internal code and integrity operating there, which is one of the reasons he's so interesting. He's complex. --Amanda From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 13:46:30 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:46:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] call to action Message-ID: <20001017134630.91378.qmail@web218.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3845 --- Firebolt wrote: > > > 8) Will you ever have any gay characters? > > I might be wrong, but I'm under the distinct > impression that 'gay' is > considered derogatory. Can we word that as > homosexual, instead? > I've spent the last 3 years working with a GLBT organization - 'gay' is not considered a derogatory term, at least not amongst the GLBT community here (Canada). Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 14:47:51 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:47:51 -0500 Subject: And so it starts,copywrite fun.... Message-ID: <000f01c03849$3c2994e0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3846 http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2570622152-3ac [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 13:52:08 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:52:08 -0500 Subject: Was male identification, way off topic and I'll be quiet now References: <8sgr39+g8mt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EC5988.E4AF6BE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3847 Susan McGee wrote: > But, for example, in Belize, where I spent a year, the men > do virtually no work, own all the land, and the women own nothing. > This is not unusual in the world (and I mean that the men sit in > taverns all day and talk while the women work in the fields, the home > and raise the children.) > > To say "we're better at it", etc. is to really trivialize a major > global problem. It's only a problem if *they* think it's a problem. I was joking with the comment, by the way. But to take our values to other cultures and tell them their own are wrong without a meticulous understanding of the cultural, mythological, and ideological underpinnings of that culture is as double-edged as what that Bible institute out of North Carolina (I think) does, developing alphabets and writing systems for illiterate languages so that the Bible may be translated and taught. With one hand they give them a wonderful tool for preserving their cultural traditions, with the other they begin to undermine those traditions. Even a year is not enough for the visceral understanding that is needed. There are often spiritual or other balances perceived by the culture that an outside observer will neither appreciate nor factor in. I'm not excusing the apparent disparity of labor burdens or land ownership. I'm saying apparent is not a good enough justification for a blanket statement of its evil, on the face of it. > > actually, I'm the landowner in our family > > that's great that you're the exception to the rule. Nice for you. > but doesn't help most of the women on the globe. I was trying to *lighten up,* okay? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 13:53:33 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:53:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] plus we remember where we *put* things (pure OT!) References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> <39EBCC4E.37574A98@texas.net> <000d01c03807$610025a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39EC59DD.DA0A14BC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3848 Denise Rogers wrote: > We do? My friends always have fun with me. Whenever I get something special, or have something that I don't want to get lost, I put it in a "safe place". Of course, when the time comes, I tear apart my house, trying to recall which place was safe? It's so safe I can't recall where! I can find stuff in the house, but where *did* I park the car....? Forgot about that. And I am getting to where the kids sometimes get Christmas presents in February, when I find something I hid and forgot about. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 14:00:28 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:00:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets References: <200010170427.e9H4RtU27952@ccpl.carr.org> <001d01c0380c$fa5f81a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39EC5B7B.2BD2234F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3849 Denise Rogers wrote: > As for Crabbe (or Goyle, they're really interchangeable) the flying fish guy! and perhapsh harry, the guy with the dynamite? What about the little "yesyesyesyesyes" "nonononono" aliens? Except they're real cute. > What about the amazing Mumford? He too might make a good Gileroy. Perfect. > Dudley, one of those pigs in space guys. Or, perhaps Cookie Monster (the way he eats, and eats, and eats?) Oh, but his character is endearing, which in no way describes Dudley. > Ollivander would be Bunson and Beaker (altho there's not a sidekick in the book, beaker is always there with Bunson!) I thought Bunson would be good for Professor Sprout (muppet genders are alterable) and even though he's tall, Beaker seems like a Flitwick to me. Flitwick has "squeaked" or something on more than one occasion, I think, and the character seems to fit. > Colin would be Scooter Well, the Scooter from the Muppet Show fits better. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 14:06:25 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:06:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why portakey at triwizards tornement? References: <8sfm0t+4eel@eGroups.com> <39EBC969.B7797AFB@texas.net> Message-ID: <39EC5CE0.188F3323@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3850 storm stanford wrote: > I really want one of those T-shirts that says "I'm talking and I can't shut > up" > > :-) do such things exist? or is this an only in America thing? It was me, actually, and I've seen them in Wireless catalogs. If ya want, I'll keep an eye out for you. I also want the "Does Anal-Retentive Have a Hyphen?" [the scary thing being I know the answer]. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 14:09:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:09:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] cat Crookshanks References: Message-ID: <39EC5D84.FB305ADD@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3851 Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis wrote: > > Crookshanks... there's something very strange about that cat! > > I subscribe that thought :) If I'm not mistaken, almost everywhere there's > an action including that cat, JKR gets it into acting like a human. Almost all the animals in the wizarding world seem to have an unusual degree of intelligence. Subspecies, perhaps, of their Muggle counterparts, affected by so much exposure to magic. As to Crookshanks, I don't think he's really a cat. Or not just a cat. But I don't think he's an Animagus, either. But when Sirius said he was the most intelligent of his kind that he'd come across, he didn't really specify what that kind was, did he? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 14:12:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:12:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] call to action References: <20001017105857.10534.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39EC5E48.3CE5F40E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3852 Pengolodh at the boards wrote: > While I am interested to know whether there will be a gay or > lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), > I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to > see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a > nice gay person in there Thanks; I had wanted to suggest not asking this question for this reason, but I couldn't quite phrase it to my satisfaction, not wanting to offend, either. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 14:18:40 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:18:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8shhc9+9uu9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EC5FC0.414D8DA5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3853 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > I, for one, do not think of Snape as a saint. I never even said he > was nice! But I don't think he is evi(not now). And just because he > was a Death Eater doesn't mean he actually murdered or tortured > someone. Of course you could say guilty by association and I would > agree. We don't even honestly know if he was a Death Eater. Yes we do, he's got the mark. I think whatever he did in the past, some compelling thing caused him to reject Voldemort so thoroughly that both Dumbledore and (apparently) Voldemort are convinced of it. I think it had to have been emotion-based for it to have lasted so long. Perhaps Snape is pale, and Dumbledore looks doubtful, after Snape leaves to do whatever he has to do, because that thing is deny Lily sufficiently to convince Voldemort he's over it and will come back...? --Amanda From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 14:21:51 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 07:21:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] t-shirts (totally off topic) Message-ID: <20001017142151.9420.qmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3854 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > storm stanford wrote: > > > I really want one of those T-shirts that says > "I'm talking and I can't shut > > up" > > > > :-) do such things exist? or is this an only in > America thing? > > It was me, actually, and I've seen them in Wireless > catalogs. If ya want, I'll keep an eye out for you. > I also want the "Does Anal-Retentive Have a Hyphen?" > [the scary thing being I know the answer]. > > --Amanda > My favourite is "You're the reason I'm on medication" - a friend of mine picked it up in Provincetown last year and wears it while he's volunteering at our festival office! Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 14:22:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:22:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: # of Students References: <8sge6k+feo5@eGroups.com> <39EC49D3.E88E7923@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39EC608D.9FF57E0F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3855 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Uh . . . there are only 4 Houses per year, so that's 35 students per > House per year under the 1000 students total numbers. Why would > Gryffindor only get 8 if they should have closer to 35? That's *way* > off in my mind. Well, I forgot who did that nice discussion, but I agree that the wizarding world was apparently a bit, um, depleted by Voldemort, which is one reason. Another is that I always got the impression that Hogwarts took the magically gifted, however many there were that filled the bill. The number of gifted Muggles and the number of wizard kids born in any given year will vary. Why should class size be regular? Harry's year might be a small one, other years might be larger, the total's around 1000. Make sense? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 14:30:52 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:30:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] t-shirts (totally off topic) References: <20001017142151.9420.qmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39EC629B.F90E0507@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3856 Sheryll Townsend wrote: > My favourite is "You're the reason I'm on medication" > - a friend of mine picked it up in Provincetown last > year and wears it while he's volunteering at our > festival office! I want "She who must be obeyed" and "yes, dear" (guess who gets which). --Amanda Oh, and also "I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas" From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 15:37:16 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:37:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] call to action References: <8sgf1s+knnj@eGroups.com> <00e201c03820$6babbd20$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <002601c03850$215f3280$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3857 Now, there's an idea. Sort of a beginner's class, the ones who aren't in the 4 houses, because they just need a bit more work. In the ARMY here, we have a class (cannot recall what it's called) where you go if you don't know/don't know/can't do pushups, situps, or other physical things that the army wants its soldiers to do in boot camp, like a pre-boot camp. Where are the other students that we haven't seen? In that class! They are in their own world, outside the 4-houses, etc... Stan might have gone to that portion (grins). I know, it's farfetched, but it IS a theory. I agree that 35 members per house is a bit stretched. There is one other possibility. Someone nicely mentioned about the "baby boom" after Ginny Weasely. If that's the case, perhaps the 4th years only had 7 or so, but the 2nd years (which Harry kept missing the sorting of!) and first years have like 50 per house! I hope that this theory makes sense, my brain is on neutral this rainy, dreary morning, and I have to go out to the bus stop with a three year old, and wait (getting drenched....grrr). (I can't wait until this temp turns into the real, golden thing! At least I passed the written!) ;) Dee > 10) Do all wizards/witches in England go to Hogwarts, or are their > "lessor" schools for wizards? I was under the impression she'd already said that it was the ONLY one. Someone confirm this? I think she has, maybe Hogwarts has some kind of achedimic (only related to magic ability) streaming so the Ernie's of the world still go there but get to learn other (simplier?) things [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 17 14:44:36 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:44:36 +0100 Subject: Crookshanks, B&N chat and student numebrs Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3858 I have had to read far too much stuff on Crookshanks to be interested but will reply anyway. Amanda wrote: "As to Crookshanks, I don't think he's really a cat. Or not just a cat. But I don't think he's an Animagus, either. But when Sirius said he was the most intelligent of his kind that he'd come across, he didn't really specify what that kind was, did he?" The quotes are (both by Sirius in PoA): "This cat isn't mad," said Black hoarsely. He reached out a bony hand and stroked Crookshanks's fluffy head. "He's the most intelligent of his kind I've ever met. He recognized Peter for what he was right away. And when he met me, he knew I was no dog. It was a while before he trusted me.... Finally, I managed to communicate to him what I was after, and he's been helping me. .. "What do you mean?" breathed Hermione. And: ""This cat -- Crookshanks, did you call him? -- told me Peter had left blood on the sheets.... I supposed he bit himself... Well, faking his own death had worked once."" Both quite clearly refer to Crookshanks being a cat. Penny wrote: "I will take on the task of creating a Word document with all our questions submitted over the next 36 hrs or so." And: "Now -- question: what is the best strategy? Do we *all* type in as many of the questions as we can in the hopes that the questions are randomly selected and that we'll get several answered by increasing the odds OR do we divide them up in case the moderator is picking & choosing (in which case, he/she will be very infavorably disposed towards our group if we snow them under with 20 people X 30 questions for example)?" Thanks Penny - I almost certainly can't make the Friday chat (It is at 7pm UK time I believe and I am busy then - or at least 10 minutes from my computer - so may arrive later). The questions cannot be totally randomly picked. They must have someone vetting them for language and so on (surprising as it may sound - some do not like JKR and Harry Potter). Maybe it would be best if some people put the group name on and others did not, but did mention they were adults. Also if the group name is mentioned then do we also want to mention that it is on E-groups? Amanda wrote: "Well, I forgot who did that nice discussion, but I agree that the wizarding world was apparently a bit, um, depleted by Voldemort, which is one reason. Another is that I always got the impression that Hogwarts took the magically gifted, however many there were that filled the bill. The number of gifted Muggles and the number of wizard kids born in any given year will vary. Why should class size be regular? Harry's year might be a small one, other years might be larger, the total's around 1000." Intriguingly the only family we have to base any information on, the Weasleys, had most of their children during the Voldemort years. The numbers will vary from year to year, but not by much. We seem to have met about 30-40 people in Harry's year and most of the information suggests that this is all of them. If year, and class, sizes are not regular then more teachers are needed. I would think that you would need 75-100 teachers for 1000 students (Harry's lessons are in groups of 10 or 20). Where are the rest of the teachers? Why have we met only 10 (Teachers in 4th year - McGonagall, Snape, Sprout, Vector, Trelawney, Moody, Hagrid, Flitwick, someone to teach muggle studies and someone to teach Ancient Runes - I may have forgotten some but have most of the ones we have met)? Are we to believe that they all use time turners to give all the lessons? Simon (Classes in a group of 6 with one tutor and one teaching assistant are much better!) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 15:45:06 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:45:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Crookshanks, the elven cat? References: <8shhvd+j9s9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004001c03851$3981fae0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3859 Steve, how about this idea? As an old gamer, I ran across something that was basically an elven cat. (Cannot recall the name) It was extremely intelligent, and had special skills. It was sorta a faery cat, if you will? Just an idea. Dee. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Vander Ark To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 7:50 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Crookshanks I've been pondering the whole Crookshanks question for a while now and I just don't think he's an animagus or some other form of human enchanted into an animal. The reason I come to that conclusion is that Sirius refers to Crookshanks as the most intelligent "of his kind" he's ever seen. That clearly implies that Crookshanks is a particular "kind" of creature in his own right. There are plenty of cat-like creatures in mythology/folklore that he could be. When I get a chance, I'll rummage through my various beastiaries and try to find some likely candidates. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~vderark/lexicon eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 15:07:05 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:07:05 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <39EC5FC0.414D8DA5@texas.net> Message-ID: <8shpup+8gkf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3860 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > mmarth at p... wrote: > > > I, for one, do not think of Snape as a saint. I never even said he > > was nice! But I don't think he is evi(not now). And just because he > > was a Death Eater doesn't mean he actually murdered or tortured > > someone. Of course you could say guilty by association and I would > > agree. We don't even honestly know if he was a Death Eater. > > Yes we do, he's got the mark. I think whatever he did in the past, some > compelling thing caused him to reject Voldemort so thoroughly that both > Dumbledore and (apparently) Voldemort are convinced of it. I think it had to > have been emotion-based for it to have lasted so long. > > Perhaps Snape is pale, and Dumbledore looks doubtful, > after Snape leaves to do whatever he has to do, because that thing is deny > Lily sufficiently to convince Voldemort he's over it and will come back...? > > --Amanda Amanda, I just don't have the time today to post many messages. (Partly because my husband has threatened to take my computer away). First off, just because Snape has the mark doesn't mean he was one. He could have only been "acting" at the time. But if he was one, maybe someone he loved died and it was due somewhat to something he did and he just cannot forgive himself. ( I hate trying to think and type fast at the same time. My sentences just don't make sense). Anyway, in GoF after Dumbledore tells Snape: "Severus," said Dumbledore, turning to Snape, "you know what I must ask you to do. If you are ready...if you are prepared..." "I am," said Snape. He looked slightly paler than usual, and his cold, black eyes glittered strangely. Some people have thought this meant Snape was scared about what he was going to do and others have thought he was excited to finally be able to do whatever he was going to go do. Dumbledore watched with a trace of apprehension on his face: sounds like he was worried to me. Martha Whose only contribution to society and women today will be to get the dirty dishes cleaned. Oh, and the laundry also! I still don't like the Snape/Lily theory and will only believe it after the 7th book. By then I will know 98% of my theories will have been wrong. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 17 15:38:23 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:38:23 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8shrpf+mvvu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3861 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christina Gross wrote: > On 16.10.2000 at 17:35:12 milz wrote: > > >Snape is a very intimidating teacher. (I had a Snape in high school > >and college). Neville is rather meek and easily intimidated and that > >makes it difficult for him to handle Snapes "tough love" teaching > >method. > > I wouldn't describe Snape's teaching style as "tough love". I had > teachers who thought the only way to overcome their students laziness > and lack of interest was to really push them hard, so they would > study even without accepting the value of what was drilled into their > heads and have it available when they need it later in life. Snape > strikes me as a person who is deeply unhappy about his situation in > life and takes that out on his students. Neville can't handle that as > well as some of his other students, which makes him a perfect victim. > I can't see any desire to impart knowledge in Snape. > > Greetings > Christina My "tough love" comment was meant in sarcasm, since I've been "Snaped" by at least two educators in my life. I think Snape likes his subject (potions), but isn't very keen on teaching. I know people who are very good in their particular field but are very poor teachers. Part of it is due to poor interpersonal communication skills and part of it is that they really aren't interested in sharing their knowledge with anyone. In SS/PS, the very first potions class was a disaster for Neville: he melts a cauldron, his wart reducing potion burns holes in the student's shoes, and he gets burned by the potion himself. The first words out of Snape's mouth is "Idiot boy". Being called an "idiot" in front of the entire class on the first day is rather intimidating to say the least. I would like to see a meeting between Neville's Gran and Snape....I keep picturing her whacking Snape on the head with her red handbag! Someone also brought up the Snape at Hogwarts protection theory. I subscribe to that. I have a feeling that the information Snape passed onto Dumbledore was so damaging that if any Death Eaters were to even suspect Snape was a spy, Snape would be killed. That information could have been anything from the attack on the Potters to the Death Eaters responsible for the McKinnons and the Prewitts deaths. It's either that or Snape is an employer's nightmare and no one wants to hire him! :-)Milz From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 17 15:36:32 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:36:32 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets Message-ID: <200010171541.e9HFf7U24594@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3862 Oooo, you guys are good! >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Gonzo would have to be Mad-Eye Moody (Crouch). Yes yes yes! >Who would animal play? Fang, maybe? >On that frame, then Ojo would be a great Hermione! I dunno, I can sorta see Ojo as Ginny. Besides, I still stand by my original choice of Prairie Dawn for Hermione--she's got the right mix of intelligence and exasperation that everyone else isn't as smart as she is. >Who'd be Lupin and Sirius? NOW THERE'S THE QUESTION! (Is it too late to get David Bowie, with the hair from Labyrinth???) Yes, that is a good question...and I can't think of a single suggestion. Hmm, more thought is required. Kathy From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 17 15:41:17 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:41:17 -0000 Subject: Marauder Houses In-Reply-To: <052401c037d0$fee7c020$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8shrut+4jj5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3863 "Jinx" wrote: > > And now I find out Lily was also one. Bloody hell, that's just ruined a > fanfic I had planned... Ummm...then don't read the transcript from the Rowling Scholastic chat... From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 15:45:00 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:45:00 -0000 Subject: Movie news and pics. Message-ID: <8shs5s+sff4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3864 http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13094335 From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 17 15:46:14 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:46:14 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny and the Muppets Message-ID: <200010171550.e9HFoqU26468@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 3865 >> I still haven't seen the Muppet Ron that makes me go "A-ha!" though. I guess >> Fozzie is the closest so far, but he's just not sarcastic enough. Maybe >> Gonzo? > >How about Rowlf? > >--Amanda I keep going back and forth between Fozzie and Rowlf, but neither is quite right. Maybe Fozzie's insecurity and hunor + Rowlf's sarcasm= Ron? Kathy From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 16:28:16 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:28:16 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <8shrpf+mvvu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8shun0+mluk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3866 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christina Gross > wrote: > > On 16.10.2000 at 17:35:12 milz wrote: > > > > >Snape is a very intimidating teacher. (I had a Snape in high > school > > >and college). Neville is rather meek and easily intimidated and > that > > >makes it difficult for him to handle Snapes "tough love" teaching > > >method. > > > > I wouldn't describe Snape's teaching style as "tough love". I had > > teachers who thought the only way to overcome their students > laziness > > and lack of interest was to really push them hard, so they would > > study even without accepting the value of what was drilled into > their > > heads and have it available when they need it later in life. Snape > > strikes me as a person who is deeply unhappy about his situation in > > life and takes that out on his students. Neville can't handle that > as > > well as some of his other students, which makes him a perfect > victim. > > I can't see any desire to impart knowledge in Snape. > > > > Greetings > > Christina > > My "tough love" comment was meant in sarcasm, since I've > been "Snaped" by at least two educators in my life. > > I think Snape likes his subject (potions), but isn't very keen on > teaching. I know people who are very good in their particular field > but are very poor teachers. Part of it is due to poor interpersonal > communication skills and part of it is that they really aren't > interested in sharing their knowledge with anyone. In SS/PS, the very > first potions class was a disaster for Neville: he melts a cauldron, > his wart reducing potion burns holes in the student's shoes, and he > gets burned by the potion himself. The first words out of Snape's > mouth is "Idiot boy". Being called an "idiot" in front of the entire > class on the first day is rather intimidating to say the least. I > would like to see a meeting between Neville's Gran and Snape....I > keep picturing her whacking Snape on the head with her red handbag! > > Someone also brought up the Snape at Hogwarts protection theory. I > subscribe to that. I have a feeling that the information Snape passed > onto Dumbledore was so damaging that if any Death Eaters were to even > suspect Snape was a spy, Snape would be killed. That information > could have been anything from the attack on the Potters to the Death > Eaters responsible for the McKinnons and the Prewitts deaths. It's > either that or Snape is an employer's nightmare and no one wants to > hire him! > > :-)Milz I don't think Snape is very fond of the red handbag! Or Gran's clothes for that matter! So why in the world did Dumbledore announce to the people in the court trial that Snape had been a spy? After Karkaroff mentioned Snape's name all Dumbledore had to say was the matter had been discussed but he took it a step further. Anyway, I do imagine Snape is walking on thin water as far as his life is concerned. Martha From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 16:31:56 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:31:56 -0000 Subject: # of Students In-Reply-To: <39EC608D.9FF57E0F@texas.net> Message-ID: <8shuts+dtlc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3867 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > Uh . . . there are only 4 Houses per year, so that's 35 students per > > House per year under the 1000 students total numbers. Why would > > Gryffindor only get 8 if they should have closer to 35? That's *way* > > off in my mind. > > Well, I forgot who did that nice discussion, but I agree that the wizarding > world was apparently a bit, um, depleted by Voldemort, which is one reason. > Another is that I always got the impression that Hogwarts took the magically > gifted, however many there were that filled the bill. The number of gifted > Muggles and the number of wizard kids born in any given year will vary. Why > should class size be regular? Harry's year might be a small one, other years > might be larger, the total's around 1000. > > Make sense? > > --Amanda I really wonder if JKR ever thought there would be so many of us picking apart the book as we do especially we it comes to what some may consider minor details. Martha From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Tue Oct 17 17:38:11 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:38:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pondering a Snape thing References: <8sfmkg+9mek@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3868 On 16.10.2000 at 19:58:08 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: >I agree that he must have suffered a severe disappointment and hurt >in his life. But when and what? I think it does go WAY back. I don't think it was just one thing but rather a series of events. >How >does an 11 year old know so many curses? Who taught him? Why has >he >always been interested in the Dark Arts? My guess would be that in his family there are wizards who practise the Dark Arts, moving in a grey zone. Do we know if the Dark arts are banned, or are they just frowned upon by the general wizarding community? >Is it because that is the >life he likes? Or is he interested because something has happened >to him (some Dark Art thing) and he is trying to find a way out of >it. That is an interesting idea, but I haven't seen anything in the books to support it. I believe Dark Arts are somehow part of his family background. When he came to Hogwarts he had to realize that the thing he was good at is something that won't win him admiration from most of his peers and teachers. That changed when he started to move in Death Eater circles. He probably thought he finally found a place where he belongs, but then something happened to open his eyes about the people he had joined and the shock was big enough to make him risk his life as a double agent. But instead of becoming the hero of the wizarding world only Dumbledore's testimony kept him out of Azkaban. Pure speculation, of course. Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Tue Oct 17 17:38:11 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:38:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sfe8g+iaqq@eGroups.com> <39EB6E16.562F3CE8@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3869 On 16.10.2000 at 16:07:34 Amanda Lewanski wrote: >Up to this point I was agreeing with you, but I don't think this is >right. >Snape has the disenchantment that comes from being truly gifted and >teaching >those who are taking the class to fill a requirement. The truly gifted sometimes don't enjoy teaching, even under the best possible circumstances. Of course we don't know whether Snape was such a surly teacher from day one, but I don't think teaching was the profession of his choice. > But >ah, when another truly gifted one comes along! Imparting the art is >a joy. >Teaching is not. Alas that he lets his surliness and house >affiliation blind >him to Hermione. He doesn't give any encouragement to his non-Gryffindor-students, either. >Perhaps he's been teaching for so long he doesn't >care >anymore, but I'll bet my socks that this disenchantment was the >origin of >his snarly teaching style. If he's based on a real teacher, I'll up >the ante >to my husband's socks, too. Plus, plotwise, it adds a bit of >credence to the >theory that he's at Hogwarts partially for the protection. What I see in him is not disenchantment with a job that didn't turn out as he imagined but rather resentment of a job he never wanted. I'm quite sure he is at Hogwarts to be safe from Voldemort's followers. Another reason could be that Dumbledore needs Snape's skills at his disposal. And maybe the former Death Eater also wouldn't be able to get a high-profile job he might want because of his past. Just my two knuts. Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 16:34:12 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:34:12 -0000 Subject: Questions for Remaining JKR Chats In-Reply-To: <39EC5110.C0C387C7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8shv24+tndp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3870 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > I will take on the task of creating a Word document with all our > questions submitted over the next 36 hrs or so. > > BUT -- Let's not bother asking things that we *know* she's not going to > answer. She is *not* going to tell us what James & Lily did for a > living for example so there is no point in asking. That's just a waste > of a question in my mind. All we'll get is "I can't answer that. > Sorry." > > Most of the ones suggested so far seem fine to me though. Maybe I'll > upload a file with the ones that come in today & then we can refine it, > make additions & so forth tomorrow. > > Now -- question: what is the best strategy? Do we *all* type in as > many of the questions as we can in the hopes that the questions are > randomly selected and that we'll get several answered by increasing the > odds OR do we divide them up in case the moderator is picking & choosing > (in which case, he/she will be very infavorably disposed towards our > group if we snow them under with 20 people X 30 questions for example)? > > I suppose I could email B&N and ask how the questions are chosen. I > don't know if we'll get a response but I can try. Does anyone who uses > AOL know how their chats might work? > > Penny Dividing them up sounds like a good idea. Of course it would be great if we knew exactly how they choose the questions to be asked. Martha From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Oct 17 16:47:03 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (Lori Summers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:47:03 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie news and pics. In-Reply-To: <8shs5s+sff4@eGroups.com> References: <8shs5s+sff4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3871 >http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13094335 > > Well, these look great to me. I must say I'm surprised Dan Radcliffe's hair appears to be BROWN BROWN BROWN. Harry's black hair is a key part of his identity. Lori From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 16:50:30 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:50:30 -0000 Subject: Submitting ?'s for the Today Show Message-ID: <8si00m+m7u1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3872 Is it the today show Rowling is going to be on Friday? I thought I saw that on a post yesterday and where to submit the questions. I just can't find it. Would be glad to send in many of the questions that we want answered. Martha From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 17 16:44:50 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:44:50 -0000 Subject: # of Students In-Reply-To: <8shuts+dtlc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8shvm2+86gp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3873 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > > > Uh . . . there are only 4 Houses per year, so that's 35 students > per > > > House per year under the 1000 students total numbers. Why would > > > Gryffindor only get 8 if they should have closer to 35? That's > *way* > > > off in my mind. > > > > Well, I forgot who did that nice discussion, but I agree that the > wizarding > > world was apparently a bit, um, depleted by Voldemort, which is one > reason. > > Another is that I always got the impression that Hogwarts took the > magically > > gifted, however many there were that filled the bill. The number of > gifted > > Muggles and the number of wizard kids born in any given year will > vary. Why > > should class size be regular? Harry's year might be a small one, > other years > > might be larger, the total's around 1000. > > > > Make sense? > > > > --Amanda > > > I really wonder if JKR ever thought there would be so many of us > picking apart the book as we do especially we it comes to what some > may consider minor details. > > Martha Rowling said there are 1000 students at Hogwarts, however she does not state how those students are divided among the houses or the years/grade levels. Let's assume that the 1000 are divided evenly among the 4 houses. Then each house would have 250 students (1000 divided by 4). There are 7 years/grade levels at Hogwarts. Assuming that the 1000 are evenly divided among the 7 years/grade levels, then each year/grade level would have 142.8 students (let's round that number up to 143, since you can't have 0.8 of a student). Or 1000 divided by 7. Assuming the 1000 are evenly divided, per house per year/grade level, there are 35.7 students (or 36 students). Or 1000 divided by 4 (the number of houses) divided by 7 (the number of years/grade levels). The 1000 could *possibly* be divided equally among the years/grade levels *if* Hogwarts admits 143 students per year. That might seem "a lot", but consider they recruit all these children from all over the UK. Furthermore, it almost solves the problem about where wizards like Ernie from the Knight Bus went to school. (It also makes me wonder what is the exact proportion of Muggles to Wizarding Folk in the population!) IMO, I don't believe the 1000 students are evenly distributed among the houses. Why? The Sorting Hat system seems to be based more on quality than quantity. The Sorting Hat examines every student's character and sorts them to whichever house best suits the student. IOW, if there are more hard-workers in a particular year, then there would be more Hufflepuffs. So it's entirely possible that there are only 5 Gryffindor boys in Harry's year, because these 5 were the only ones the Hat could match to Gryffindor, IMO. The sorting process probably does take a quite a bit of time. Ron was impatient to get the ceremony over with in GoF. But in SS/PS, the Sorting Hat sometimes decided quickly (Malfoy barely had the hat on his head and the Hat called out "Slytherin!") or it took a while to sort (the Hat took a "long time" with Neville and about a minute with Dean or Seamus) :- ) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 17 16:55:44 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:55:44 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <8shun0+mluk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8si0ag+kmgi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3874 > So why in the world did Dumbledore announce to the people in the > court trial that Snape had been a spy? After Karkaroff mentioned > Snape's name all Dumbledore had to say was the matter had been > discussed but he took it a step further. Anyway, I do imagine Snape > is walking on thin water as far as his life is concerned. > > Martha Good point! Maybe Dumbledore's Snape comment was edited out of the official records as being confidential. We are seeing Dumbledore's memory of the event. Furthermore, let's say that Dumbledore's comments were not edited from the official records, that would lend even more credence to the Snape at Hogwarts for protection theory. Dumbledore might have thought that some loyal Death Eaters might go after his spy, Snape, so the safest place for Snape would be Hogwarts under Dumbledore's protection. :-) Milz From hilary_tamar at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 17:23:35 2000 From: hilary_tamar at hotmail.com (ht ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:23:35 -0000 Subject: Marauder Houses In-Reply-To: <052401c037d0$fee7c020$2bb8073e@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8si1un+t0ve@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3875 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > And now I find out Lily was also one. Bloody hell, that's just ruined a > fanfic I had planned... Don't let that stand in your way -- just call it an AU! (alternate universe) Happens all the time... ht From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Oct 17 17:33:31 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:33:31 -0000 Subject: questions to JKR (p. the 'gay' one) In-Reply-To: <39EC5E48.3CE5F40E@texas.net> Message-ID: <8si2hb+nhal@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3876 Pengolodh at the boards wrote: >>While I am interested to know whether there will be a gay or >>lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), >>I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to >>see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a >>nice gay person in there Amanda replied: >Thanks; I had wanted to suggest not asking this question for this >reason, but I couldn't quite phrase it to my satisfaction, not >wanting to offend, either. I agree. Those of us who want to can draw our own conclusions on the sexual orientation of some characters, without the need for tokenism (hey, another -ism!). I'd have to say that I rarely read books thinking "I wish they'd written a gay character into this" and, frankly, the Harry Potter series is far from the first place I would be looking. It's that 'order of fries' argument again: we should eat what is put in front of us (a feast, let's be honest) and not try to get beans on the plate instead of peas. When it comes to choosing questions to ask JKR, I support the view that we shouldn't be asking her to reveal every trick and plot development she has up her sleeve. The odd leak is fun, but I'd rather have the really big secrets revealed when I have my nose buried in book 5, 6 or 7. I want to be surprised by these books, not think "oh yeah - I read that in an interview." I think questions should relate to 'mysteries and inconsistencies' in the first four books. That # students question was a valid one, for example. Shame about the answer, which made no sense. I'm saying all this having come in on the tail end of this 'JKR interview' thread, but I gather she's doing a number of online interviews?...I guess I should go and catch up on the messages. Sorry - I seem to have gone all seeeeerious on you lately, but I'm sure that won't last very long . Neil From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 17 17:56:53 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:56:53 -0000 Subject: questions to JKR (p. the 'gay' one) In-Reply-To: <8si2hb+nhal@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8si3t5+lgll@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3877 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > Pengolodh at the boards wrote: > > >>While I am interested to know whether there will be a gay or > >>lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), > >>I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to > >>see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a > >>nice gay person in there > > Amanda replied: > > >Thanks; I had wanted to suggest not asking this question for this > >reason, but I couldn't quite phrase it to my satisfaction, not > >wanting to offend, either. > > I agree. Those of us who want to can draw our own conclusions on the > sexual orientation of some characters, without the need for tokenism > (hey, another -ism!). I'd have to say that I rarely read books > thinking "I wish they'd written a gay character into this" and, > frankly, the Harry Potter series is far from the first place I would > be looking. It's that 'order of fries' argument again: we should eat > what is put in front of us (a feast, let's be honest) and not try to > get beans on the plate instead of peas. > > When it comes to choosing questions to ask JKR, I support the view > that we shouldn't be asking her to reveal every trick and plot > development she has up her sleeve. The odd leak is fun, but I'd > rather have the really big secrets revealed when I have my nose > buried in book 5, 6 or 7. I want to be surprised by these books, not > think "oh yeah - I read that in an interview." > > I think questions should relate to 'mysteries and inconsistencies' in > the first four books. That # students question was a valid one, for > example. Shame about the answer, which made no sense. I'm saying all > this having come in on the tail end of this 'JKR interview' thread, > but I gather she's doing a number of online interviews?...I guess I > should go and catch up on the messages. > > Sorry - I seem to have gone all seeeeerious on you lately, but I'm > sure that won't last very long . > > Neil I agree with you about potential spoilers, Neil. I would like to know her opinion of the Harry Potter fan fic out there. Honestly, I haven't read *any* Potter fan fic because I've been ruined by other fanfics. I'd also like to know the ages of the Potters when they were killed and the ages of Bill and Charlie Weasley. :-) Milz From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Oct 17 17:57:41 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:57:41 -0000 Subject: Cats (no, not the musical) In-Reply-To: <39EC5D84.FB305ADD@texas.net> Message-ID: <8si3ul+ccbr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3878 Amanda said: <<<>>> *** To me, Crookshanks and The Sorting Hat are two of the most intriguing characters in these books, and we've had the odd hint that both are significant in some way. I'm dying to know more (but, ahem, not enough to ask JKR about it). I think that all the cats are there to protect Harry in some way. I still wonder why McGonagall (as a cat) was watching the Dursley house when Dumbledore turned up; could it have had more to do with her instinct as a cat than needing to catch up with Albus? I know I'm repeating myself, but it was odd that she was sitting outside No.4 but was then surprised to learn that Harry was being delivered there. There's probably much more to Mrs Figg's cats than meets the eye too. Some of them were named, weren't they? I must go and look up the names - they might mean something. Crookshanks pretty much chose Hermione. Why did she buy such an unlikely specimen unless she was 'influenced' in some way? Why did we hear so little about Crookshanks in GoF? Anyway, here's me just asking questions and not providing any answers...typical. Neil From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 17:56:49 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:56:49 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <8si0ag+kmgi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8si3t1+e365@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3879 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > So why in the world did Dumbledore announce to the people in the > > court trial that Snape had been a spy? After Karkaroff mentioned > > Snape's name all Dumbledore had to say was the matter had been > > discussed but he took it a step further. Anyway, I do imagine > Snape > > is walking on thin water as far as his life is concerned. > > > > Martha > > Good point! Maybe Dumbledore's Snape comment was edited out of the > official records as being confidential. We are seeing Dumbledore's > memory of the event. Furthermore, let's say that Dumbledore's > comments were not edited from the official records, that would lend > even more credence to the Snape at Hogwarts for protection theory. > Dumbledore might have thought that some loyal Death Eaters might go > after his spy, Snape, so the safest place for Snape would be Hogwarts > under Dumbledore's protection. I wonder who some of Dumbledore's other spies were/are. Hope we find out. I think I would be bitter too if I had to spend all my days and nights some place just for protection. Doesn't make for a good social life. Yeah, I know his social skills are somewhat lacking, but no wonder! And Rita Skeeter was at one of those trials. I imagine she knows quite a bit herself. Martha > > :-) Milz From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 18:06:47 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:06:47 -0000 Subject: Cats (no, not the musical) In-Reply-To: <8si3ul+ccbr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8si4fn+mt0a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3880 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > Amanda said: > > <<< cat. But I don't think he's an Animagus, either. But when Sirius said > he was the most intelligent of his kind that he'd come across, he > didn't really specify what that kind was, did he?>>>> > > *** > To me, Crookshanks and The Sorting Hat are two of the most intriguing > characters in these books, and we've had the odd hint that both are > significant in some way. I'm dying to know more (but, ahem, not > enough to ask JKR about it). > > I think that all the cats are there to protect Harry in some way. I > still wonder why McGonagall (as a cat) was watching the Dursley house > when Dumbledore turned up; could it have had more to do with her > instinct as a cat than needing to catch up with Albus? I know I'm > repeating myself, but it was odd that she was sitting outside No.4 > but was then surprised to learn that Harry was being delivered > there. > > There's probably much more to Mrs Figg's cats than meets the eye > too. Some of them were named, weren't they? I must go and look up > the names - they might mean something. > > Crookshanks pretty much chose Hermione. Why did she buy such an > unlikely specimen unless she was 'influenced' in some way? Why did > we hear so little about Crookshanks in GoF? > > Anyway, here's me just asking questions and not providing any > answers...typical. > > Neil McGonagall was there because Hagrid had told her Dumbledore would be there. I think she wanted to hear about all the rumors going around straight from D. Martha From particle at urbanet.ch Tue Oct 17 18:39:36 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:39:36 +0200 Subject: Cats (no, not the musical) References: <8si3ul+ccbr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007701c03869$9a140a20$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3881 Neil said: > I think that all the cats are there to protect Harry in some way. Well, I keep thinking that Harry is very feline, so it doesn't seem that farfetched to me... ~Firebolt, with apologies for the two-line e-mail From rhodhry at yahoo.no Tue Oct 17 18:55:57 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:55:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Possible question to pose to JKR Message-ID: <20001017185557.18197.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3882 In fear that this might be one of the "already-asked-a-million-times-before"-questions: What is the approximate value of a galleon? My personal guess is at around 10/$15(US). _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 11:09:33 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:09:33 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits... References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> <003a01c037e5$4673b340$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3883 Dee said "We've seen Diggory, Arthur, and other men in the roles I am describing, but I do not recall any women in power besides Madame Maxine, who seems to hold AD's role in (France?)." that's the french for you funny buggers! j/k "What roles are there available to wizard women besides Mothering? Would be interesting to see." I've wondered about this. It does seem mostly to be teaching, nursing, singing (remember the singers at the yule ball), & mothering. (Amanda, Martha, Susan, etc - "not that there is anything wrong with that" - just for those of us who are *not* ever going to raise the next generation it'd be nice to have some more choises ) As we have noted there is only one female DE and we haven't heard of any autours (sp?) who are female. the other female charators who do things (the ones lockhart rips off from) they are hags I think (no thanks, no raw liver) sometimes I think it's because JKR appears (to me) to have 'borrowed' the structure from a type of novel written in the 50's and 40's - school and kids adventure type books. goodness knows she has been so inventive in almost every other area of the books I could understand her conforming to 'type' on this (if that is indeed what she is doing.) What other ideas do ppl have? "And no, for the record, I am not a feminist," not that there is anything wrong with that .... storm (who *is* a feminist and agrees that men's casual clothes are the most sensible/comfortable atire one can get around in) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 17 19:09:54 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:09:54 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sge6k+feo5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8si862+j69c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3884 > Well let's see, there are 7 years. So about 140 students in each year. > If there are 7 classes in each year about 20 students per class. No, there are 4 classes in each year, for each of the 4 houses. 35 students per class. 1000 divided by 7 divided by 4 = 35 From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 17 19:21:28 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:21:28 -0000 Subject: Snape in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <39EBC2BE.9B9C9B25@texas.net> Message-ID: <8si8rp+94ii@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3885 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Jinx wrote: > > > OTOH, we are talking Snape here, and he's just the obsessive type to hold > > grudges for a very long time indeed. I don't know if he'd be mad at Lily, > > but certainly it'd be one more thing to blame James for. > > Okay, this is a bit of personal history for those of you who have not had > experience with this sort of pit-bull emotional baggage and who think Snape is > a non-realistic extreme mental case. Grudges *can* and do last that long Amanda has a good point. People, in my experience, are not rational. I have a great aunt and uncle who I never met until, when I was in my 20s, I went to a funeral for another great-uncle. When I asked my mother who those people were who had just come up and hugged me, she said they were my grandfathers sister and her husband, who were never invited to family events or talked about because my grandfather had had an altercation with them before I was born and had refused to speak to them ever since. Neither my mother nor my grandmother knew (or were willing to tell me, maybe) why my grandfather did not speak to his sister. My grandfather held this grudge for at least 30 years!!!! While my grandfather was not a particularly nice man, he was not as nasty as Snape. -- Joywitch From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 19:26:54 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:26:54 -0000 Subject: Snape in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8si8rp+94ii@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8si95u+c64n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3886 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Jinx wrote: > > > > > OTOH, we are talking Snape here, and he's just the obsessive type > to hold > > > grudges for a very long time indeed. I don't know if he'd be mad > at Lily, > > > but certainly it'd be one more thing to blame James for. > > > > Okay, this is a bit of personal history for those of you who have > not had > > experience with this sort of pit-bull emotional baggage and who > think Snape is > > a non-realistic extreme mental case. Grudges *can* and do last that > long > > > Amanda has a good point. People, in my experience, are not > rational. I have a great aunt and uncle who I never met until, when > I was in my 20s, I went to a funeral for another great-uncle. When I > asked my mother who those people were who had just come up and hugged > me, she said they were my grandfathers sister and her husband, who > were never invited to family events or talked about because my > grandfather had had an altercation with them before I was born and > had refused to speak to them ever since. Neither my mother nor my > grandmother knew (or were willing to tell me, maybe) why my > grandfather did not speak to his sister. My grandfather held this > grudge for at least 30 years!!!! While my grandfather was not a > particularly nice man, he was not as nasty as Snape. > > -- Joywitch Oh I agree people can hold grudges for a very long time. Even good people. I am just hoping the grudge Snape holds isn't because he loved Lily (romantically -Amanda-on going joke). I do so think Snape is a man on a mission - some kind of revenge thing. Martha From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 19:35:41 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:35:41 -0000 Subject: Feminist Veela's, and a Hag Message-ID: <8si9md+dpnf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3887 One definition of a Veela: Veela are ghosts of unbaptised women or virgins that are doomed to remain on earth. They often dance in circles and any human who sees them will be forced to join the circle, dancing to his death. Making a man dance to his death? Sounds kind of feminist to me! * * * * * * * As Hagrid said in GoF, "I was jokin'....jokin'!" Hags: A hag (in Britain) is an old woman that personified the winter, in spring she becomes a beautiful young woman. I did get excited (since I have been called a hag before) about being called a beautiful you woman until it was pointed out to me that winter is on the way......guess I will have to wait till spring. Martha Who has eaten liver before, just not raw!!! From lj2d30 at gateway.net Tue Oct 17 20:10:57 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:10:57 -0000 Subject: Spin off books by JKR Message-ID: <8siboh+sv3c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3888 I read this in today's paper and thought I'd share. Evidently JKR is writing 2 spin-off books to benefit Comic Relief in March. Quidditch Through the Ages (just for you Ebony!) Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them I was very excited when I read the blurb. I just may need them for my personal library. Trina From Malabud at excite.com Tue Oct 17 20:09:18 2000 From: Malabud at excite.com (Malabud) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Delurking & Wizard Aging Message-ID: <4271238.971813360108.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3889 Greetings and Salutations! I've been lurking on this list for several weeks now. I wanted to wait a while before jumping into any discussions. There is no faster way to annoy list veterans, no matter the list, then to ask inane questions that have already been answered and discussed numerous times in the previous thousand messages! It is great how various subjects come into being and then progress into list-wide discussions that last for days. Other lists have large memberships as well but are not nearly as active because they don't purposely introduce topics periodically like the chapter & character discussions and Peg?s seven vices/virtues essays. I have enjoyed reading the many, many messages from this list. I have found that if someone says something I wish to comment on, I just have to wait a short while and someone else will invariably say what I was thinking even better than I could. This is certainly a diverse group and I am fascinated by everyone?s depth of thinking when it comes to the Harry Potter books. Who knew there was so much to discuss? So, now that I am delurking for a moment, I figured I?d throw out a question and see if anyone has an answer. We learned a great deal from the Scholastic chat, despite the lameness of some of the questions. Dumbledore's age especially intrigued me. In CoS, supposedly the 1992-1993 school year, Harry sees a fifty-year younger Dumbledore through Riddle?s journal. The Dumbledore of that time looked much younger and had auburn hair. If he is 150 years old at the end of book four, that would make him almost 100 in 1942/1943. Just how do wizards age then, if Dumbledore looks "young" and still has his original hair color at 100, but looks fairly old at 150? I remember that Lupin does have graying hair, but I don't believe for a moment that he is anywhere near the century mark. Of course, the premature gray hair may be a side effect of his wolfishness. (I wonder if his hair turns all white, will his werewolf be all white too?) Someone else mentioned that we need to reevaluate our notions of how old various characters are because of Rowling?s answer about ages in the Scholastic chat. I don?t necessarily think that is so for everyone. I don?t recall the precise descriptions of Molly and Arthur Weasley (except that they both have red hair), but they can't be too old because they still have children in school. My parents, like the Weasleys, have seven children--three with red hair, in fact. My siblings and I are currently between the ages of 28 and 15, and my parents are in their mid-fifties. It is obvious the Weasleys did not space their kids in any consistent way. At the end of Harry's fourth year, Ginny is 13/14, Ron is 14/15, Fred & George are 17 (their birthday is in April), Percy is 18/19, and Charlie has to be at least 21, maybe 22. I got the impression Charlie had just graduated the year before Harry started at Hogwarts. That's why Gryffindor was missing a seeker that year. Bill can't be *too* much older than Charlie. (The two oldest in my family are only 15 months apart. My parents soon learned to space their kids a little more so they could survive raising us.) He could be anywhere from 23 to 26, I would guess. Any other thoughts about Dumbledore?s appearance versus his age? Jeanine AKA Malabud _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 20:43:43 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:43:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Feminist Veela's, and a Hag References: <8si9md+dpnf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39ECB9FE.40DEA263@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3890 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > One definition of a Veela: > > Veela are ghosts of unbaptised women or virgins that are doomed to > remain on earth. They often dance in circles and any human who sees > them will be forced to join the circle, dancing to his death. Where'd she get the bird characteristics, when they got mad? I'd never heard of a veela before, but there's all sorts of cool eastern European stuff, too, like rusalkas, that are also a type of ghost. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 20:51:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:51:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8shpup+8gkf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39ECBBCC.35242FE4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3891 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > First off, just because Snape has the mark doesn't mean he was one. > He could have only been "acting" at the time. Aha! Semantics. I meant he was one in the sense that he was fully enrolled and considered one by Voldemort and any other DeathEaters who knew, whatever his own heart said at the time. > Martha > > Whose only contribution to society and women today will be to get the > dirty dishes cleaned. Oh, and the laundry also! No, that's a contribution to self-preservation and good taste. > I still don't like the Snape/Lily theory and will only believe it > after the 7th book. By then I will know 98% of my theories will have > been wrong. Won't we all....but ain't it fun? --Amanda From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 20:48:41 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:48:41 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3892 From: Diogo Miguel Preto Mena Reis "I have to admit he is quite an interesting character, but I think the Snape fans have been hearing each other for too long now! (wait a second don't shoot me) You've turned Snape into a saint!" A couple of things about Snape - 1, yes diogo when I was re-reading recently I was struck by the differnce in the snape in the books and the snape in my head. (the one in my head being much more complex) 2. I think Dumbleodre had to say Snape was a spy as the only way to 'rehabilitate' snape's image. Surely many DE's gave snapes name (as did Karloff). In the case of such fear and parania I can't see even Dumbledore's word simply being good enough. storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 17 20:58:12 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:58:12 -0000 Subject: Snape in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8si95u+c64n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sieh4+rud@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3893 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote:> > Oh I agree people can hold grudges for a very long time. Even good > people. I am just hoping the grudge Snape holds isn't because he > loved Lily (romantically -Amanda-on going joke). I do so think Snape > is a man on a mission - some kind of revenge thing. > > Martha My thought is borrowed from a folksong, The Wee Lass on the Brae. This fellow falls for a girl, and between her many admirers, and his family obligations, he despairs and curses her, "May she never marry, but think of me still". It seems the curse rebounds and he ends up wishing her well, but unable to forget her. It could fit, no? Pippin From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 17 20:57:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:57:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: # of Students References: <8shvm2+86gp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39ECBD2F.C482C540@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3894 milz wrote: > Let's assume that the 1000 are divided evenly among the 4 houses. > Then each house would have 250 students (1000 divided by 4). okay. > There are 7 years/grade levels at Hogwarts. Each house's 250 divided by 7 is 35 to 36. Then when you divide by gender, you get about 17 to 18 females and 17 to 18 males in each house in each year. So from what we know of Harry's class, they seem to be about ten off, in both genders, yes? That's not a whole lot of fudging, considering the possible variability in the number and gender of new students each year (I don't think it's a set number, I think they take the ones who qualify), and considering the following equally valid point about the Sorting Hat. There's no reason to think it is compelled, thinks it should, or ever does sort the students so that they come out numerically even. > IMO, I don't believe the 1000 students are evenly distributed among > the houses. Why? The Sorting Hat system seems to be based more on > quality than quantity. The Sorting Hat examines every student's > character and sorts them to whichever house best suits the student. > IOW, if there are more hard-workers in a particular year, then there > would be more Hufflepuffs. So it's entirely possible that there are > only 5 Gryffindor boys in Harry's year, because these 5 were the only > ones the Hat could match to Gryffindor, IMO. I also don't think you use enough acronyms, milz. IMO. FWIW. --Amanda From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 20:59:35 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:59:35 GMT Subject: Gay charactors Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3895 Pengolodh at the boards wrote: > While I am interested to know whether there will be a gay or > lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), > I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to > see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a > nice gay person in there Thanks; I had wanted to suggest not asking this question for this reason, but I couldn't quite phrase it to my satisfaction, not wanting to offend, either. --Amanda Hi all - at the risk of sounding tired, weary *and* warey we had quite a long discussion about this - dunno the thread number - about 2 two weeks ago. perhaps someone who has access to the site could look up the thread and post the number? I'm happy to go there again (since I can talk under wet cenment) if you all want to but I think we did cover it *quite* thoughly last time. storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From mmarth at peoplepc.com Tue Oct 17 21:11:46 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:11:46 -0000 Subject: Snape in love (and Imperio curse) In-Reply-To: <8sieh4+rud@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sifai+4sd1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3896 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote:> > > Oh I agree people can hold grudges for a very long time. Even good > > people. I am just hoping the grudge Snape holds isn't because he > > loved Lily (romantically -Amanda-on going joke). I do so think > Snape > > is a man on a mission - some kind of revenge thing. > > > > Martha > My thought is borrowed from a folksong, The Wee Lass on the Brae. > This fellow falls for a girl, and between her many admirers, and his > family obligations, he despairs and curses her, "May she never marry, > but think of me still". It seems the curse rebounds and he ends up > wishing her well, but unable to forget her. It could fit, no? > Pippin Yeah! Maybe he used one of those curses he has always known. Poor thing! Martha From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 17 21:17:42 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:17:42 -0500 Subject: Questions for JKR Message-ID: <39ECC1F6.6615A774@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3897 Hi -- I have 38 questions in my Word document at the moment (including the question about gay characters -- anyone who doesn't want to ask this one can disregard it). I echo Neil's sentiments that the questions should concentrate on ironing out inconsistencies & mysteries from the 1st 4 books, rather than attempting to elicit much in the way of plot details for future books. I've eliminated some of the suggested questions based on that. I will post it later tonight. I've got an email in to B&N at the moment. If I hear back from them (or not), we can decide how we want to attack this (dividing up the questions or all asking as many as we want). If we divide them up, I would suggest that we divide up into "teams." Team A can take the first 10 questions; Team B can take questions 11-20, etc. Does that make sense? We'd be repeating the questions to some extent but not as much as if we all typed in all 40 questions or so. Penny From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 22:42:17 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:42:17 -0500 Subject: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. Message-ID: <00f701c0388b$808b5b40$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3898 John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. YES!!! Dances. I do think he'll make the perfect Sir C.~!!!!!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 23:03:18 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:03:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] BN Chat in General (Was:Questions for JKR) References: <39ECC1F6.6615A774@swbell.net> Message-ID: <013f01c0388e$712908c0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3899 I am not certain I will be able to make it to the chat. Tomorrow's a double dentist appointment (and I know this hole in my tooth is gonna go over soo well--just a little pothole...lol. prolly lost a filling again.) Would someone who knows the art of ctrl-c please be so kind as to post the chat in its entirity on the board, or up in the files, please? (Crosses her fingers!) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer To: HPforGrownups Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 4:17 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions for JKR Hi -- I have 38 questions in my Word document at the moment (including the question about gay characters -- anyone who doesn't want to ask this one can disregard it). I echo Neil's sentiments that the questions should concentrate on ironing out inconsistencies & mysteries from the 1st 4 books, rather than attempting to elicit much in the way of plot details for future books. I've eliminated some of the suggested questions based on that. I will post it later tonight. I've got an email in to B&N at the moment. If I hear back from them (or not), we can decide how we want to attack this (dividing up the questions or all asking as many as we want). If we divide them up, I would suggest that we divide up into "teams." Team A can take the first 10 questions; Team B can take questions 11-20, etc. Does that make sense? We'd be repeating the questions to some extent but not as much as if we all typed in all 40 questions or so. Penny eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 17 22:00:27 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:00:27 -0500 Subject: Update on B&N Chat Message-ID: <39ECCBFB.99790194@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3900 Hi -- I got a standard customer service email back & so called Customer Service. I'm not entirely confident of this response, but I suppose we should just go with it. They say that Rowling chooses the questions that she wants to respond to. They also said we can submit questions anytime before the chat, but that's not true (I thought it wasn't). Her chat won't be in the B&N auditorium where questions can be submitted until after the last chat on Thursday (over about 10:00 p.m. EST) I guess. Probably, we can start submitting Friday morning. I do not mind submitting them all -- under the name of the group of course. Or, so that they won't all bear my email address, perhaps we should divide them up & submit 5-10 each. Volunteers? You must be available to do this Friday morning at some point. I'm not sure how early the auditorium will open up. Thoughts? Penny From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 17 22:15:03 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:15:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. Message-ID: <20001017221503.285.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3901 --- Denise Rohleder wrote: > John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. > That is so cool! I love John Cleese! In the movie, though, does anyone know what the ghosts will look like? Will they be portrayed as the actors/actresses (i.e. Beetlejuice, The Shining) or will they have a transperant/see-through look to them (any episode of Unsolved Mysteries)? From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Tue Oct 17 20:59:06 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:59:06 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] call to action Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3902 Pengolodh at the boards wrote: > While I am interested to know whether there will be a gay or > lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), > I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to > see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a > nice gay person in there Thanks; I had wanted to suggest not asking this question for this reason, but I couldn't quite phrase it to my satisfaction, not wanting to offend, either. --Amanda Hi all - at the risk of sounding tired, weary *and* warey we had quite a long discussion about this - dunno the thread number - about 2 two weeks ago. perhaps someone who has access to the site could look up the thread and post the number? I'm happy to go there again (since I can talk under wet cenment) if you all want to but I think we did cover it *quite* thoughly last time. storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Oct 17 22:37:18 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:37:18 +0100 Subject: Student Numbers References: <8si862+j69c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a201c0388a$e519f5e0$059201d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3903 ----- Original Message ----- From: Joywitch To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:09 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? > > Well let's see, there are 7 years. So about 140 students in each > year. > > If there are 7 classes in each year about 20 students per class. > > No, there are 4 classes in each year, for each of the 4 houses. 35 > students per class. 1000 divided by 7 divided by 4 = 35 I was also thinking that maybe the number of children in each year could vary - after all, it's not as if you apply for one of a limited number of places and since entrance is via the magical book that JKR talked about, where all the witches and wizards are noted when they are born, presumably regardless of how many there are, they all get offered a place. So if it is a year with a high birthrate, the number of magic children born could raise proportionally, with the converse being true also - also perhaps there are years where regardless of what the general birthrate is like, there is a peak or a trough in the amount of magic children born caused by other factors, ie, during the years when Voldemort was about, perhaps the birthrate dropped because having a child seemed more fraught with dangers (although that doesn't seem to have bothered the Weasleys or the Potters*g*) while there might have been a baby boom after Voldemort's fall. So a 'good' wizarding birthrate year there might be as many as say 200 children offered places at Hogwarts, whereas in years where the magic birthrate is low it could maybe more like 50 or 60. Considering that Harry was born when Voldemort was at the height of his power, it could be likely that his year was one of those when there was a 'drought' of magical children, hence the low numbers. Plus, we have no idea of how many people are in the other houses - it might have been a year low on Gryffindors, but a bumper year for Ravenclaws. Alix From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 17 22:59:52 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:59:52 -0500 Subject: # of Students (Again!) Message-ID: <39ECD9E8.EA276353@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3904 Hi -- Isn't it amazing? JKR even answers our question & still the debates rage on . . . . I do appreciate the idea that there probably was a bumper crop of little witches & wizards in the years after Voldemort's fall from power. But, all the classes above Harry & even Ginny's class should all suffer from the alleged "drought" of babies as in Harry's year. I also appreciate the notion that there could be disproportionate numbers sorted into the other Houses. *However,* when Harry & his fellow Gryffindors take flying lessons with the Slytherins, there are 20 broomsticks. When Harry & his fellow Gryffindors work with the mandrakes in Herbology with the Hufflepuffs, there are 20 pairs of earmuffs. This would suggest that Harry's entire year is very low on students. I just think that there is *no* way that 1000 students makes sense if you look at the internal evidence in the books. Simon raises the good point of how long the Hogwarts Express would need to be to transport all those students & their luggage (of course, maybe there's a space enlarging charm like Mr. Weasley uses for his car). Steve raises the good point about the length of the Sorting ceremony if there are really 140 new students each year. I also still think the Common Rooms would have to be unbelievably enormous for the activities that are portrayed in the books (Hermione has ample study tables to spread all her books out on; the room is deserted a fair number of convenient times). If there are 8 Gryffindors in Harry's year & if the Hufflepuffs & Slytherins are likewise afflicted with low populations, then Harry's year would be incredibly disproportionately small in relation to the other classes in order to come up with a final tally of 1000 students at any one time. Let's say there are 8 Gryffindors, 12 Slytherins, 12 Hufflepuffs & 20 Ravenclaws (52). The other years would have to be 3 times as large (158 students) to come up with 1000. BTW, I do agree that the Sorting Hat would *not* sort the students in equal numbers into the 4 Houses. That's why I've always thought each House probably had 6-15 students per year. There's an average range I would think. But 8 would be way *low* on a range that is supposed to average out at 35. Sorry, but none of this makes any rational sense to me. Granted, I have zero mathematical skills or logic but still . . . . Penny From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Oct 17 23:58:07 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:58:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3905 >John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. > > > >YES!!! Dances. I do think he'll make the perfect Sir C.~!!!!!!! > > Oh, I thought he'd make a great Nearly Headless Nick. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "The Professor and the Madman" by Simon Winchester "24 Hours" by Greg Iles *************************************************** From vderark at bccs.org Tue Oct 17 23:14:40 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:14:40 -0000 Subject: # of Students In-Reply-To: <8shvm2+86gp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8simh0+s4uj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3906 > The sorting process probably does take a quite a bit of time. Ron was > impatient to get the ceremony over with in GoF. But in SS/PS, the > Sorting Hat sometimes decided quickly (Malfoy barely had the hat on > his head and the Hat called out "Slytherin!") or it took a while to > sort (the Hat took a "long time" with Neville and about a minute with > Dean or Seamus) There is no way that all statements in all the books make sense with either the 1000 number or the 300 number. They just don't. But in Harry's third year, the sorting was over in the time it took Harry and Hermione to have a relatively short chat with McGonagall, twenty minutes tops, so it's not just Harry's year that's short students. There must be a very disproportionally large group of older kids to make up for the very low numbers in the lower classes. Sorting 150 kids at the rate we see in the books would take at least an hour, probably quite a bit more. That works, I guess. But I can't imagine a group of kids the age of the kids I teach (5th - 8th grades) looking forward to sitting through it. Let's face it, JKR simply didn't work it all out to the degree we are. So there is no way it will ever all fit. She said a thousand, it's a thousand. I don't like it, I can tell you all sorts of reasons why it doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. I'll valiantly try to create some twisted logic to make it work because hey, that's what I do, I'm Mr. Obsession. But there's no way it will ever really work out. My impression from reading her responses is that while she does make an effort to create a whole world and she does like to hide surprises for us to find, she doesn't take the whole think as seriously as we do (okay, as *I* do). Her response about which house people were in was telling: Gryffindor, of course! As if there was no question. Lily's maiden name? Evans. No big deal. She maybe even made that up on the spot. I think we can take it a little more at face value than we have been, in other words. It seems like the Marauders were all in Gryffindor? She'd probably say "Of course they were! They're the good guys!" Anyway, I'm updating the Lexicon as I get time. Can't wait to see what else I learn this week... Steve "Delighted Mrs. Figg is Arabella" Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 17 23:32:35 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:32:35 -0000 Subject: # of Students In-Reply-To: <8simh0+s4uj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sinij+hhnb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3907 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote:> > Let's face it, JKR simply didn't work it all out to the degree we > are. So there is no way it will ever all fit. She said a thousand, > it's a thousand. I don't like it, I can tell you all sorts of reasons > why it doesn't make sense, but it is what it is. I'll valiantly try > to create some twisted logic to make it work because hey, that's what > I do, I'm Mr. Obsession. But there's no way it will ever really work > out. There is a long tradition that certain magical sites are 'countless'. Perhaps this applies to Hogwarts students also. The number of stones at Stonehenge was given as: 95 (John Evelyn, 1654) 91 (Celia Fiennes, 1690) 72 (Daniel Defoe, 1724) 140 (Stukely, 1740) There was a firmly held belief in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that anyone who succeeded in numbering the stones would die. From Albion, A Guide to Legendary Britain Pippin From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 00:13:32 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] t-shirts (totally off topic) Message-ID: <20001018001332.20190.qmail@web219.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3908 Amanda: How about this one - "Always right and don't you forget it"? I gave that to my best friend when she got married. Sheryll --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Sheryll Townsend wrote: > > > My favourite is "You're the reason I'm on > medication" > > - a friend of mine picked it up in Provincetown > last > > year and wears it while he's volunteering at our > > festival office! > > I want "She who must be obeyed" and "yes, dear" > (guess who gets which). > > --Amanda > > Oh, and also "I'm not bossy, I just have better > ideas" > > ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 01:39:25 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:39:25 -0000 Subject: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8siv0d+7oo7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3909 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, summers.65 at o... wrote: > >John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. > >YES!!! Dances. I do think he'll make the perfect Sir C.~!!!!!!! > Oh, I thought he'd make a great Nearly Headless Nick. > > Lori I'm with you, Lori. Isn't it not until CoS that Sir Cadogan shows up? I just finished rereading SS, and I don't remember him in there. Don't they first meet him when looking for Trelawney's class? Also, I seem to recall Sir C being rather short and maybe stocky. Cleese would be a tad tall, don't you think? To me the only ghost he really seems right for is N.H.Nick. Kelley From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 02:06:44 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:06:44 -0000 Subject: Number of Students Argghhh! In-Reply-To: <39ECD9E8.EA276353@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sj0jk+s9ip@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3910 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: "If there are 8 Gryffindors in Harry's year & if the Hufflepuffs & Slytherins are likewise afflicted with low populations, then Harry's year would be incredibly disproportionately small in relation to the other classes in order to come up with a final tally of 1000 students at any one time. Let's say there are 8 Gryffindors, 12 Slytherins, 12 Hufflepuffs & 20 Ravenclaws (52). The other years would have to be 3 times as large (158 students) to come up with 1000. > BTW, I do agree that the Sorting Hat would *not* sort the students in equal numbers into the 4 Houses. That's why I've always thought each House probably had 6-15 students per year. There's an average range I would think. But 8 would be way *low* on a range that is supposed to average out at 35. Sorry, but none of this makes any rational sense to me. Granted, I have zero mathematical skills or logic but still . . . . > > Penny" I never thought you and I would be on the same side of the student census issue, but JKR managed it. I think 1000 seems pretty high for all the reasons you name. But let's review some of the things that argued all along for a higher population: Wizarding society. A wizarding society that has 300 kids between the ages of eleven and 17-18 is too small to have all the institutions/businesses etc. we've seen. Heck, Roger Sherman Elementary, where my daughters go, draws from a very small area. It's got 386 students in six years. Hogwarts is big. There's more than enough room for even 1000. There was seating for 1200 at the Yule Ball. We know there's extra guests, but there's no need for a 4:1 seat ratio if the student census is 300. I felt it was perfectly possible there were more students in other houses than in Gryffindor and Slytherin. Maybe these students are exceptional (in one direction or another). There's never been any evidence for it, but it seems reasonable that there's more people who do the work (like Hufflepuffs) than get the glory (like Gryffindors). Is it coincidence that Gryffindors and Slytherins have so many classes together? Are all the Gryffindors and Slytherins in the same sections? I always thought it was obvious the Sorting Hat puts people where they should go without regard for numbers. The Sorting Hat told us so very clearly, IMO. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 03:08:31 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:08:31 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. References: <8siv0d+7oo7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002501c038b0$b290af80$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3911 Oh, ack. Forgive me! It's just I can see him playing Don and chasing windmills..... You are completely right! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelley To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:39 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, summers.65 at o... wrote: > >John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. > >YES!!! Dances. I do think he'll make the perfect Sir C.~!!!!!!! > Oh, I thought he'd make a great Nearly Headless Nick. > > Lori I'm with you, Lori. Isn't it not until CoS that Sir Cadogan shows up? I just finished rereading SS, and I don't remember him in there. Don't they first meet him when looking for Trelawney's class? Also, I seem to recall Sir C being rather short and maybe stocky. Cleese would be a tad tall, don't you think? To me the only ghost he really seems right for is N.H.Nick. Kelley eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 02:23:58 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:23:58 -0000 Subject: what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sfq84+5snb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sj1ju+p3jd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3912 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Andrea Bonfanti" wrote: > I don't agree with Penny and Kelley's understanding that Arabella and > Mrs Figg are the same person. I believe that JKR was just > acknowledging that the reader had spotted something important there. > As for the number of students, to me, it had always been hard to > believe that Harry's Griffindor class had only 8 students. I mean, > they have some lessons by themselves (with no other house), and JKR > sometimes wrote that Harry sat at the back of the room. With only 7 > other students, that would be hardly a difference. On the other hand,> her only mentioning 8 Griffindors is downright strange. > > Andrea (fairly new member, just setting herself free from quarantine, > I mean, lurking period!) So, Andrea, do you think Arabella is just related to Mrs. Figg? Your point about Harry in the back of the room w/ only 8 students is a good one, I completely missed that. I think Steve said it best, JKR says 1000, okay it's 1000. But, too many statements contradict this. It just won't ever 'work'. And Penny-- I don't remember, which editions of CoS had it switched to 'descendent'? Mine is HB, and has the same ISBN no. that Simon (I think it was Simon, I might be confused, if so I'm sorry) included in his post. I don't know the print no., so echoing Joywitch, how do you tell? Anyway, mine says 'ancestor' too. Kelley From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Wed Oct 18 02:27:33 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 18 Oct 2000 02:27:33 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <971836053.15517@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3913 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /QUESTIONS FOR JKR CHATS.doc Uploaded by : pennylin at swbell.net Description : You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/QUESTIONS+FOR+JKR+CHATS%2Edoc To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, pennylin at swbell.net From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 18 02:31:24 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:31:24 -0500 Subject: Questions for JKR Message-ID: <39ED0B7C.278BC169@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3914 Hi -- If you're so inclined, review the Questions for JKR that has been uploaded (in Word) to our Files section. If you have any additions or suggestions for rewording, please speak up! Also, any thoughts on whether I should just post all these questions from the group or if we should split them up amongst several members? Penny From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 02:42:03 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:42:03 -0000 Subject: Delurking & Wizard Aging In-Reply-To: <4271238.971813360108.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <8sj2lr+4t18@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3915 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Malabud wrote: > Greetings and Salutations! >..... So, now that I am delurking for a moment, I figured I'd throw out a question and see if anyone has an answer. We learned a great deal from the Scholastic chat, despite the lameness of some of the questions. Dumbledore's age especially intrigued me. In CoS, supposedly the 1992-1993 school year, Harry sees a fifty-year younger Dumbledore through Riddle's journal. The Dumbledore of that time looked much younger and had auburn hair. If he is 150 years old at the end of book four, > that would make him almost 100 in 1942/1943. Just how do wizards age then, if Dumbledore looks "young" and still has his original hair color at 100, but looks fairly old at 150? I remember that Lupin does have graying hair, but I don't believe for a moment that he is anywhere near the century mark. Of course, the premature gray hair may be a side effect of his wolfishness. (I wonder if his hair turns all white, will his werewolf be all white too?) Someone else mentioned that we need to reevaluate our notions of how old > various characters are because of Rowling's answer about ages in the > Scholastic chat. I don't necessarily think that is so for everyone. I don't recall the precise descriptions of Molly and Arthur Weasley (except that they both have red hair), but they can't be too old because they still have children in school. My parents, like the Weasleys, have seven children--three with red hair, in fact. My siblings and I are currently between the ages of 28 and 15, and my parents are in their mid-fifties." Malabud, jump right in. Don't go around thinking somebody else will make their point "better than you could". They aren't you. Look back at Dumbledore. He isn't described as "young", exactly. All JKR says is that he has flowing auburn hair. He's 100 at the time. At the age of 150, half again as old, his hair is all white. I'm 51. when I'm half again as old (75, if I make it that far) my hair will be all white also. So Dumbledore's hair color between 100 and 150 isn't inconsistent. From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 02:46:48 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:46:48 -0000 Subject: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. In-Reply-To: <002501c038b0$b290af80$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8sj2uo+o9dd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3916 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > Oh, ack. Forgive me! It's just I can see him playing Don and chasing windmills..... > > You are completely right! > > >John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. > > >YES!!! Dances. I do think he'll make the perfect Sir C.~!!!!!!! > > > > Oh, I thought he'd make a great Nearly Headless Nick. > > > > Lori > > I'm with you, Lori. Isn't it not until CoS that Sir Cadogan shows > up? I just finished rereading SS, and I don't remember him in > there. Don't they first meet him when looking for Trelawney's > class? Also, I seem to recall Sir C being rather short and maybe > stocky. Cleese would be a tad tall, don't you think? To me the only > ghost he really seems right for is N.H.Nick. > > Kelley > I agree with you. And since JKR loves Monty Python, here's a couple of fun cameos: Eric Idle for Sir Cadogan, and Michael Palin for Professor Binns. From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 02:47:44 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:47:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. References: <00f701c0388b$808b5b40$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39ED0F50.8A264B02@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3917 Denise Rohleder wrote: > John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. > > YES!!! Dances. I do think he'll make the perfect Sir C.~!!!!!!! Oh, I was thinking Nearly Headless Nick.... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 02:51:40 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:51:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. References: <8siv0d+7oo7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39ED103B.62727248@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3918 Kelley wrote: > Also, I seem to recall Sir C being rather short and maybe > stocky. Cleese would be a tad tall, don't you think? To me the only > ghost he really seems right for is N.H.Nick. Well, with his build and outrageous eye expressions, he'd be a great cameo as the Bloody Baron, too, but he's far to funny for such a non-speaking role. I hope he does more than a cameo, don't y'all? --Amanda From adflora at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 02:55:31 2000 From: adflora at yahoo.com (adflora at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:55:31 -0000 Subject: Hallmark Harry Potter Merchandise Message-ID: <8sj3f3+lp83@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3919 Hello, I'm another lurker who has stumbled out of her hovel to tell everyone that I found the coolest HP pens at my local Hallmark cards store. They just came out a couple of days ago. There are 8 pens altogether and they light up (some blue, yellow, and & think red). They also all have different colored ink. And of course, they all have different designs on them. The one I got has purple ink with a yellow light and pictures of all of the school crests. They also had some cool pewter ornaments (don't remember is someone has mentioned this already) and mini snowglobes. I couldn't find it on the hallmark website though. I've enjoyed the group so much-so glad I've finally got a chance to share something! flora From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 02:54:45 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:54:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Number of Students Argghhh! References: <8sj0jk+s9ip@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39ED10F5.C8DC0A10@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3920 Another thought might be that Hogwarts eased the entrance requirements a bit to take in more students during the Voldemort years, for their own protection...? Just a thought. --Amanda From recla at magick.net Wed Oct 18 03:13:58 2000 From: recla at magick.net (Prof. Dumbledore) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:13:58 -0000 Subject: Hallmark Harry Potter Merchandise In-Reply-To: <8sj3f3+lp83@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sj4hm+4bu3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3921 Yes, Diann and I hit the store today, and loaded up.. a little $$ for the nice stuff, great bookends. But I did get one of the lighted pens a red one with red ink and every flavor beans labels on it. And a nice Dumbledore tree ornament. Dennis.. > I'm another lurker who has stumbled out of her hovel to tell everyone > that I found the coolest HP pens at my local Hallmark cards store. > They just came out a couple of days ago. There are 8 pens altogether > and they light up (some blue, yellow, and & think red). They also > all have different colored ink. And of course, they all have > different designs on them. The one I got has purple ink with a > yellow light and pictures of all of the school crests. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 03:22:34 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:22:34 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <002b01c0380d$3d8db000$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8sj51q+kitd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3922 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > Susan, > I didn't say that! Promise! Not certain why my name's above that phrase, perhaps it was a quote of someone responding to something I responded to that someone responded to...... > > > Dee > My humble apologies, Dee...my computer has been a wee bit cranky this past week... But to go back to the original idea...who would I rather have at my side in a fight? Not Severus Snape...he allows his rage and spite to take over..not good in a warrior...I'd rather have Harry. or Bill Weasley. or Hermione. or Ron. or Albus Dumbledore (etc. etc.) I think the idea that he's at Hogwarts for his own protection is brilliant! Let's try to ask JKR that in one of the chats..if nothing else, it'll impress her..... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 03:31:49 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:31:49 -0000 Subject: Neville and Snape In-Reply-To: <8shpup+8gkf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sj5j5+bnbf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3923 > > Amanda, I just don't have the time today to post many messages. > (Partly because my husband has threatened to take my computer away). > First off, just because Snape has the mark doesn't mean he was one. > He could have only been "acting" at the time No. Dumbledore "remembers" the trial at which he stated clearly that Snape was a DE. I think all DEs killed or tortured. It was part of the initiation rites, probably. (that's just my theory) > Anyway, in GoF after Dumbledore tells Snape: "Severus," said > Dumbledore, turning to Snape, "you know what I must ask you to do. > If you are ready...if you are prepared..." "I am," said Snape. > > He looked slightly paler than usual, and his cold, black eyes > glittered strangely. Some people have thought this meant Snape was > scared about what he was going to do and others have thought he was > excited to finally be able to do whatever he was going to go do. > > Dumbledore watched with a trace of apprehension on his face: sounds like he was worried to me. I had assumed the Snape was scared (i'd be), and that Prof. Dumbledore was scared for him. But who knows? > > I still don't like the Snape/Lily theory and will only believe it > after the 7th book. By then I will know 98% of my theories will have been wrong. I don't like the Snape/Lily theory at all. JKR doesn't really do too much about partner/spouse adult relationship stuff (I have a feeling that someone will say that's because it's from Harry's point of view) Re: redemption. I was watching the Star Trek movie where Spock is killed and they played Amazing Grace at the end. I was reminded of the author of that music who was (by his description) a vile slave trader who experienced personal transformation. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 03:39:34 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:39:34 -0000 Subject: what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sj1ju+p3jd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sj61m+nfds@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3924 --- > > And Penny-- I don't remember, which editions of CoS had it switched > to 'descendent'? Mine is HB, and has the same ISBN no. that Simon (I > think it was Simon, I might be confused, if so I'm sorry) included in > his post. I don't know the print no., so echoing Joywitch, how do > you tell? Anyway, mine says 'ancestor' too. > > Kelley One of my CoS copies says "descendant" That's ISBN 0-439-06486-4 It says "First American Edition" I'll have to find my other one to check it. The tapes say "ancestor". Excuse me, MY tapes, say ancestor. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 03:44:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:44:04 -0000 Subject: Scholastic chat/ what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8si862+j69c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sj6a4+cpos@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3925 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > Well let's see, there are 7 years. So about 140 students in each > year. > > If there are 7 classes in each year about 20 students per class. > > No, there are 4 classes in each year, for each of the 4 houses. 35 > students per class. 1000 divided by 7 divided by 4 = 35 Bear with me..I haven't really focused on this. But when the Triad are deciding what courses they will take it seems as if they list about seven classes...... Susan From laurlaur1013 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 03:45:39 2000 From: laurlaur1013 at hotmail.com (L. L. M.) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:45:39 CDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Too Much Email! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3926 Ahh! I just joined the mailing list a few days ago and I'm just getting SCADS of emails! I get home at 3:30 and i've already got 70+! I'd really love to stay on the list and contribute and stuff but I can't handle reading everything. Does anyone have any suggestions on coping? I'm a member of the Paradigm of Uncertainty list (sorta a lurker) and thats just enough email, so I'm not used to this huge amount, and I need a list where I can talk freely about anything harry potter w/ more mature people than any hp group...any suggestiosn anyone? ::goes insane:: Lynnia _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From catlady at wicca.net Wed Oct 18 04:02:32 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:02:32 -0000 Subject: ?4JKR(robes) * Crookshanks * Galleons2$ * 150 years * Lycanthra Message-ID: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3927 *** Please ask JKR if, when she was writing the first book, she envisioned the school uniform robes as being worn open over what looks like Muggle school uniforms. Some people might want to question whether the students really wear their pointed hats in class and at meals. *** A long time ago, this list discussed what happens if a female Animagus is pregnant and doesn't switch back to human form before giving birth, and concluded that Crookshanks is McGonagall's love child by a Muggle-type Persian tomcat. *** A long time ago, long and detailed discussion of the value of wizarding money left me thinking that a bronze Knut is worth 'around' a nickel, times 29, a silver Sickle is worth 'around' a dollar and a quarter (ten bits?), times 17, a golden Galleon is worth 'around' $25. [Of course, I am over 18 (43 on Election Day) and therefore my idea of what a nickel, dollar, quarter, and $25 are worth is somewhat exaggerated!] If only there were 13 rather than 17 Sickles to the Galleon (which is also prime), then not only would the money model the lunar year, but I could have said a Galleon is worth 'around' an eagle (the $20 coin)! But I don't know any official name for a $25 coin. *** Despite believing that wizards have longer life expectancy than Muggles, I was surprised to hear that Dumbledore is 150 and McGonagall is 70 -- I had thought that Dumbledore is going-on-90 and McGonagall is 63. Well, 70 isn't *that* far off of 63, but I really wonder whether being 150 years old and not even retired is normal or has something to do with Flamel's Elixir of Life or what? *** Lupe de los Lobos? Lycia Ulf? I want Lupin's mother to be named Ida. It would work for the Marauders' friendship relationship if the Lupin character were a female friend with lycanthropy, but it wouldn't work for PoA's social agenda, formerly known as the moral of the story, which is that the kindest, most gentle, best teacher is the one who is hounded out of the school for being a dangerous werewolf: an anti-sterotyping, anti-bigotry message. But our cultural stereotype that expects women to be kind and gentle (to children, anyway) means that the kind, gentle woman teacher, fitting the readers' habitual expectation, would not be noticed and therefore the moral would not be noticed. If you want to do some gender-bending, imagine if the Sirius Black character were Scylla Black! From Ellimist15 at aol.com Wed Oct 18 04:12:00 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:12:00 EDT Subject: call to action Message-ID: <4c.b9e3402.271e7d11@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3928 More questions for J.K.! Most of them have been discussed on this list, but it never hurts to know for sure. 15. Why could Dobby disapparate within Hogwarts? 16. You said that McGonnagall was 70 years old, which puts her at Hogwarts at the same time as Tom Riddle. Was there ever anything between them? 17. How old were James and Lily when they were married? When Harry was born? 18. Why did James come out of the wand first during the duel in "Goblet of Fire" if Voldemort killed him first? Why wasn't there any mention of the curse that failed to kill Harry? 19. Who is Professor Sinistra? Is Professor Vector male or female? 20. Who is the head of Ravenclaw house? Why do we know so few Ravenclaws? Just Padma, Cho, and Penny! 21. If Snape was once a Death Eater, why didn't he know Pettigrew was really the spy? 22. When did Bill and Charlie attend Hogwarts? Did they know the marauders? 23. What's up with the whole "Snuffles" thing? 24. Why socks? Dumbledore sees socks in the Mirror of Erised and socks are Dobby's favorite clothes. 25. Why did Snape hate James so much *before* James saved his life? And not just because he was good at Quidditch. 26. Have you considered writing prequels? 27. What happens after someone has suffered a Dementor's kiss? Could Barty Jr. return to Voldemort? 28. Why didn't Fred and George notice the name "Peter Pettigrew" on the marauder's map? Why didn't Harry? 29. Can Mrs. Norris see through invisibility cloaks? 30. What was Dumbledore asking Snape to do at the end of "Goblet of Fire"? 31. A student named Susan Bones is sorted into Hufflepuff in Harry's first year. Is she related to the Bones family killed by Voldemort? 32. Sirius said that Crookshanks is the most intelligent of his kind that he'd come across, but he didn't specify "his kind". Is there a possibility that Crookshanks is not a true cat? 33. Was there another Weasley between Bill/Charlie and Percy? There seems to be quite a large gap between their ages. I think I'll stop now... Ellie From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 04:14:16 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:14:16 -0000 Subject: call to action In-Reply-To: <00e201c03820$6babbd20$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8sj82o+g8uq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3929 > > > > > 7) Why didn't Dobby or Winky go work for the Weasleys? > > > > 8) Will you ever have any gay characters? > > I might be wrong, but I'm under the distinct impression that 'gay' is > considered derogatory. Can we word that as homosexual, instead? > It's homosexual that's considered derogatory. (generally accepted) Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans people is the latest and greatest most correct terminology (but you could get away with gay). In my opinion. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Wed Oct 18 03:24:23 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:24:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> <39EC575C.8EFE68FC@texas.net> Message-ID: <39ED17E6.4999B04@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3930 > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Yet, his behavior towards students is inexcusable. He is absolutely > > and totally unfair towards Harry, Neville and the rest of the > > Gryffindors. He starts out by targeting Harry, asking him unfair > > questions, and taking points from G. Why? He doesn't like Harry's > > father (oooh, that's a good reason). When he threatens Harry with the > > truth serum, he is scary. And again, what he does to Neville is vile. You know, one thing I'm looking forward to seeing is when Neville finally figures out why he's in Gryffindor. Harry and Hermione have seen inklings of it: in the first book, Neville took Gryffindor over the top and won the House Championship because he "stood up to his friends." Hermione noticed that something was wrong with Neville during the faux-Moody's demonstration of the Unforgiveable Curses, and when Harry "fell into" the Pensieve, he discovered what it was: it was Neville's parents' history, and what it has meant to Neville--and Harry realizes how bravely Neville has been carrying that burden, and without calling any attention to himself whatsoever. There's an inner core of toughness to Neville that's buried down there, underneath all his quailing at Snape's storming and bluster. And I think that something . . . SOMETHING is going to make the Gryffindor in Neville really come out sometimes in the next few books, maybe finally in the 7th. And, if so, Snape might be in for a really big surprise someday in Potions class when he tries his usual bullying tactics on Neville. I'm waiting for it . . . Peg >>>> Reigning CD: Christine Lavin's "Getting in Touch With My Inner Bitch" Last Book Read: _A Stitch in Time_ by Monica Ferris Last Movie Seen: "Keeping the Faith" From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 04:20:23 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:20:23 -0000 Subject: call to action In-Reply-To: <20001017105857.10534.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8sj8e7+fr3f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3931 > > > > > > > > 7) Why didn't Dobby or Winky go work for the > > Weasleys? > > > > (storm) I want to know this too - it's not like > > they wouldn't have been appreciated! > > With Winky being in the state she was, I doubt she is > quite ready for working alone in a household quite > yet. Dobby may not have been aware of the Weasley's > needing a house-elf initially (Dumbledore probably > picked him up quite quickly), and now, I doubt that > they can afford him. This is going to sound snide, but I really am trying to be funny... and NOT snide. I want to say that although I'm very interested in your opinions (AND in the opinions of all those on this list), I'd like to ask JKR the question, because I'm more interested in her opinion. > > > > 8) Will you ever have any gay characters? > > > > (firebolt)I might be wrong, but I'm under the > > distinct impression that 'gay' is > > considered derogatory. Can we word that as > > homosexual, instead? > > > > (storm) I'm gay/lesbian (goodness, how much self > > discloure can one list take?) I don't think its > > derogartory, OTOH, homosexual sounds like somebodys > > *very* uncomfortable but trying hard to be cool > > parent (IMO) > > > > I agree. The term "homosexual" sounds very > academic/educational. The term gay may have been > intended derogatory at first, but it has been > "conquered" (sp?), and as such it is not conceived as > derogatory by those to whom it matters most (I have to > work more on my sentence-structures). While I am > interested to know whether there will be a gay or > lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), > I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to > see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a > nice gay person in there (and that she wwould not do, > either, I guess). Why would a question -- are you going to include any non-heterosexual characters -- imply that she is "required" or "supposed" to do it? Susan From summers.65 at osu.edu Wed Oct 18 05:25:59 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:25:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Too Much Email! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3932 >Ahh! I just joined the mailing list a few days ago and I'm just getting >SCADS of emails! I get home at 3:30 and i've already got 70+! I'd really >love to stay on the list and contribute and stuff but I can't handle reading >everything. Does anyone have any suggestions on coping? >I'm a member of the Paradigm of Uncertainty list (sorta a lurker) and thats >just enough email, so I'm not used to this huge amount, and I need a list >where I can talk freely about anything harry potter w/ more mature people >than any hp group...any suggestiosn anyone? >::goes insane:: >Lynnia Switch to Digest, in which you get a bunch of emails in one and can scroll through them at leisure, or Web Only/No Mail. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "The Professor and the Madman" by Simon Winchester "24 Hours" by Greg Iles *************************************************** From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 04:26:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:26:32 -0000 Subject: questions to JKR (p. the 'gay' one) In-Reply-To: <8si3t5+lgll@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sj8po+vk9m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3933 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" > > wrote: > > Pengolodh at the boards wrote: > > > > >>While I am interested to know whether there will be a gay or > > >>lesbian character in future books (being gay myself), > > >>I do not see any requirement for it. I do not want to > > >>see it appear just because she is "supposed" to have a > > >>nice gay person in there > > > > Amanda replied: > > > > >Thanks; I had wanted to suggest not asking this question for this > > >reason, but I couldn't quite phrase it to my satisfaction, not > > >wanting to offend, either. > > > > I agree. Those of us who want to can draw our own conclusions on > the > > sexual orientation of some characters, without the need for > tokenism > > (hey, another -ism!). But what if she put two or three in -- or plans to? That would not necessarily be tokenism.. I'd have to say that I rarely read books > > thinking "I wish they'd written a gay character into this" and, > > frankly, the Harry Potter series is far from the first place I > would > > be looking. It's that 'order of fries' argument again: we should > eat > > what is put in front of us (a feast, let's be honest) and not try > to > > get beans on the plate instead of peas. > > > > When it comes to choosing questions to ask JKR, I support the view > > that we shouldn't be asking her to reveal every trick and plot > > development she has up her sleeve. The odd leak is fun, but I'd > > rather have the really big secrets revealed when I have my nose > > buried in book 5, 6 or 7. I want to be surprised by these books, > not > > think "oh yeah - I read that in an interview." > You know, folks, I'm stunned. There are endless questions about who is involved with whom, heterosexual wise, and endless speculation, but if we ask one single question about a lesbian or gay character, then we are telling her what to do, or insisting that there be one...? Lesbian comic Kate Clinton said she came out to her brother once. Ten years later, when she was about to have her first recording issued, she mentioned that she would be billed as a lesbian comic. His response: "Don't you ever talk about anything else?" Susan From Ellimist15 at aol.com Wed Oct 18 04:26:51 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:26:51 EDT Subject: Feminist Veela's, and a Hag Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3934 "Vila" (pronounced "veela") are Eastern Slavonic wind and storm spirits, capable of calling forth whirlwinds, hailstorms and rain. Depending on their habitats, people speak of land, water, wood and cloud vilas. These female spirits appear in the form of a swan, horse or wolf or, if in human form, as beautiful women, winged and with long hair. They posses eternal youth and are usually friendly towards humans. In Slovakia they are the souls of deceased girls. Ellie http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ > One definition of a Veela: > > Veela are ghosts of unbaptised women or virgins that are doomed to > remain on earth. They often dance in circles and any human who sees > them will be forced to join the circle, dancing to his death. From kippesp at swbell.net Wed Oct 18 04:27:13 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:27:13 -0000 Subject: US special edition Message-ID: <8sj8r1+feg6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3935 I just returned from My-Favorite-Bookstore-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named. They finally received the $75 green, leather-bound, embossed, gold- leafed editions of SS. This edition has an original picture of Harry drawn by JKR. I'm guessing that the illustrations of Harry in the regular US editions were based on (or influenced by) this picture. JKR's Harry looks very similar to Mary Grandpre's. But just a few comments on JKR's picture. Harry is standing in front of the Dursley fireplace. His scar is covered by his hair. On the mantle are pictures of the Dursley family (sans Harry, of course). Dudley's nose looks like a pig's nose (similary to the US chapter 2 illustration). The price is a bit of an issue for me. I'd be willing to plunk down $40 on this book. But not $75 ($60 over Internet). Paul From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 04:48:02 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:48:02 -0000 Subject: CATS! Message-ID: <8sja22+kcs1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3936 In the PS/SS first year Hogwarts students are told that they can bring an owl OR a cat OR a toad (SS, pg. 53) Has Ron alREADY broken a rule by bringing a rat? and is this a question to ask JKR...... I thought -- well, maybe they are just pets. The owls are the magical messengers, but no one has seen a toad do anything but get lost. We hear that Mrs. Norris has uncanny powers to ferret out wrong doers and summon Filch (a Squib... so he is not summoning her). We hear of Mrs. Figgs (who may or may not be Arabella, but is clearly either her or connected to her) cats -- Tibbles, Snowy, Mr. Paws and Tufty -- among others. Then, Hermione (in PoA..U.S. edition, pp. 55...) decides to buy an owl. They go to a magical creature shop (I think this establishes that cats are magical creatures..?)Then we meet Crookshanks who eventually meets Sirius Black in his BBD persona, and figures out he's not a dog. Black is able to communicate somehow to Crookshanks what's going on. Crookshanks becomes Black's ally, stealing the passwords, tracking down Scabbers, and eventually saving Black's life by attaching himself to Black's chest when Black is at most risk of being attacked by HP. There is something particularly special about cats...... Susan currently companion to (Rob Roy)McGregor and Uhura...... and still mourns the Kent State Memorial Cat Guinivere (after whom the Guinivere Memorial Fund to shelter cats of battered women was named) Jezebel (beautiful and wicked) Wattson (found in Watts, but named Wattson, so we could say "wake up, Wattson, the Game's Afoot) Piper Cub (named after the airplane) Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 05:15:51 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:15:51 -0000 Subject: Off-Topic Stereotype Observations In-Reply-To: <39EA0ED3.78547B07@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sjbm7+gfld@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3937 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > We should not denigrate men. Why did you get that from my post about > > Starship Troopers? > > No, you didn't say that, just that since it mentioned a movie it reminded me > of how they changed Jurassic Park to be p.c., too, having the little girl > save the day. > > This is an old item of discussion in our house, because my husband, who went > to college in the 60s, was shouted down in some sociology class or something > when he suggested that it was not correct to balance years of male dominance > by substutiting female dominance. His example was topless bars---if it's > wrong for men to go and ogle scantily clad females, why is it okay for women > to go watch male dancers? The ladies in the class had the "get even" mindset > and totally missed his point, and I've found many female friends over the > years who totally miss it, too. I agree. There are those who think that the solution to using women's bodies to sell everything is to use men's bodies, too, but I don't like either. > > > I'm afraid I don't watch commercials so I can't comment, but I don't > > support generalizations or stereotypes of any kind. > > Actually, radio commercials, sound bites, just about anything that modern > media produces: switch the genders (or the races) in the exchange and ask > yourself--would this form be acceptable? Would there be an outcry? Our > latest favorite--the "World's Sexiest Bachelor" show they ran, presumably to > balance the Miss America or Universe or whatever that also just ran. There > was no complaint about the title "World's Sexiest Bachelor," but what about > "World's Sexiest Woman" instead of Miss America...? Can you imagine the flak > (justly so) from the women's groups? But Sexiest Bachelor is fine. Even > greeting cards: I read a list of "humorous" cards that promoted males as > idiots or worse (What do you do when a man says you're smothering him? Push > down harder on the pillow); if the gender-roles were switched, they'd be > banned. > > --Amanda And actually there was just a post on this list that I thought was anti-male, the Feminist Veela thing. I had a problem with it, but quite frankly am tired of bringing up concerns. As a feminist, I don't do anti-male jokes. I don't like them. But then I don't like anti-Mexican jokes (had to walk out of a local fundraiser recently because of them). Humor is wonderful, but I prefer humor that is affirmational rather than destructive. Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 05:25:04 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:25:04 -0000 Subject: what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sj61m+nfds@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sjc7g+dp1s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3938 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > One of my CoS copies says "descendant" > That's ISBN 0-439-06486-4 > It says "First American Edition" > > I'll have to find my other one to check it. The tapes say "ancestor". > Excuse me, MY tapes, say ancestor. > > Susan Susan-- That's the same ISBN number on mine too. Does it say "First American Edition" right underneath the ISBN # ? All mine says is "Printed in the U.S.A"; I've searched everywhere on this book, and can't find the edition number anywhere. Kelley From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 05:34:20 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:34:20 -0000 Subject: what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sjc7g+dp1s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sjcos+klg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3939 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > One of my CoS copies says "descendant" > > That's ISBN 0-439-06486-4 > > It says "First American Edition" > > > > I'll have to find my other one to check it. The tapes > say "ancestor". > > Excuse me, MY tapes, say ancestor. > > > > Susan > > Susan-- > > That's the same ISBN number on mine too. Does it say "First American > Edition" right underneath the ISBN # ? All mine says is "Printed in > the U.S.A"; I've searched everywhere on this book, and can't find the > edition number anywhere. > > Kelley there is a 45 printed near there.... From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 18 05:34:24 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:34:24 -0000 Subject: what did we learn from this? In-Reply-To: <8sjc7g+dp1s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sjcp0+rkg9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3940 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > One of my CoS copies says "descendant" > > That's ISBN 0-439-06486-4 > > It says "First American Edition" > > > > I'll have to find my other one to check it. The tapes > say "ancestor". > > Excuse me, MY tapes, say ancestor. > > > > Susan > > Susan-- > > That's the same ISBN number on mine too. Does it say "First American > Edition" right underneath the ISBN # ? All mine says is "Printed in > the U.S.A"; I've searched everywhere on this book, and can't find the > edition number anywhere. > > Kelley there is a 45 printed near there.... From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 07:57:25 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:57:25 -0000 Subject: How do you submit chat questions? Message-ID: <8sjl55+5qp5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3941 Can someone give me some idiot-proof, classicist-proof explanations for how I should submit questions to the chats: at what time, on what day, to what email address, in what format? I'd love to play a part in this but have no idea how to go about it. Thanks, Blaise. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 08:21:10 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:21:10 -0000 Subject: ISBN numbers, editions In-Reply-To: <8sjcp0+rkg9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sjmhm+3pe0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3942 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > there is a 45 printed near there.... Near the ISBN number? There are absolutely no other numbers there, just the printed in the USA line. I'm looking on the inside page where the text and illustration copyrights, and the Scholastic Press info is. Is there somewhere else I should be looking? Kelley From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Oct 18 09:37:48 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:37:48 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ISBN numbers, editions References: <8sjmhm+3pe0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a401c038e7$14169900$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3943 > Near the ISBN number? There are absolutely no other numbers there, > just the printed in the USA line. I'm looking on the inside page > where the text and illustration copyrights, and the Scholastic Press > info is. Is there somewhere else I should be looking? > > Kelley On the same line as the Printed in the USA line, there should be a number, like 56 or 37 or 23 or whatever. I think that's what Susan means... ~Firebolt From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Oct 18 09:43:06 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:43:06 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions for JKR References: <39ED0B7C.278BC169@swbell.net> Message-ID: <00a701c038e7$d3716a00$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3944 Penny said: > If you're so inclined, review the Questions for JKR that has been > uploaded (in Word) to our Files section. > > If you have any additions or suggestions for rewording, please speak up! > > Also, any thoughts on whether I should just post all these questions > from the group or if we should split them up amongst several members? I think it's best that questions aren't repeated, at least at B&N, since JKR is apparently choosing which ones to answer, and she might be better disposed towards us if we don't repeat questions? In any case, there are going to be some questions which other fans will be asking... If I come up with any additions, I'll suggest them... ~Firebolt From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Wed Oct 18 09:55:02 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:55:02 -0000 Subject: Questions for JKR In-Reply-To: <39ED0B7C.278BC169@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sjs1m+613c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3945 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > If you're so inclined, review the Questions for JKR that has been > uploaded (in Word) to our Files section. > > If you have any additions or suggestions for rewording, please speak up! > > Also, any thoughts on whether I should just post all these questions > from the group or if we should split them up amongst several members? > > Penny Can we ask how Dobby managed to appear and disappear in the hospital wing when Harry was regrowing his bones,since it is not possible to apparate and disapparate in Hogwarts. Harry was holding onto Dobby but was left clenching his fist when Dobby popped away after hearing people approaching. Also, sorry if I missed it - What about Dumbledore's reaction when Harry told him his blood was taken. Was Harry really mistaken about AB's "look of triumph" or is there really something behind it ? I'd like to know what is the Ancient Magic at Privet Drive which Voldemort mentioned in GoF at the graveyard, which keeps Harry "safe" About posting - we might have a better chance of having more questions answered if we spread them out because I think the organisers might prefer to have been able to attend to more individuals' questions than from one source. Thanks Gen From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Oct 18 12:59:23 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:59:23 -0000 Subject: the gay question (longish) In-Reply-To: <8sj8po+vk9m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sk6rb+d98o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3946 I said: <> Susan replied: [Although I'm responding to Susan's points, I've expanded on this topic a bit, with apologies to those who've already discussed it to death]. Bearing in mind the number of younger readers these books have, is it feasible that JKR will write in several gay characters? Like it or not, the introduction of a gay character would detract from the story (unless you think JKR might be planning to out Harry in book 7, or reveal that Dumbledore and Snape are longtime boyfriends). Not only would the author be treading on eggshells as she tried to deal with a very sensitive topic, but also every hack journalist and `family values' crusader would be on her case. Of course, this is not a *good* reason not to do it, but it is a likely reason she won't do it. We've commented before on the fact that very few of the Hogwarts teachers seem to be married, and that doesn't stop us imagining Flitwick, Sprout or McGonagall are gay any more than it stops us imagining that they are married or paired off. A stunned Susan wrote: I think the gay question is a sensitive one, that's all. On a more general point, I think we should avoid all questions along the lines of "why haven't you done this yet?" (another example: "Will Harry ever get it on with Hermione?"). There is a lot of speculation about romance pairings and most of it is heterosexual, I agree. With the exception of slash fic discussions (we had one last Sunday in the chat room), there isn't much talk of Harry/Ron, Harry/Draco, Fred/Hagrid, or whatever, I guess because it is perceived as being unlikely that JKR will write that. Question: Can we expect JKR to create the ideal, egalitarian world we *don't* have in a series of fictional stories about a school for witches and wizards, centred on a boy who is barely into his teens (and seen from his POV)? No, we can't (IMO). These are works of fiction; the product of imagination. Perhaps she will cover gay issues as part of the development of Hermione's social conscience; perhaps she will make the next three books much more adult in content and bear the brunt of criticism. More likely, I think, she won't. Neil From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 18 13:37:35 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:37:35 -0500 Subject: Editions/Printing Message-ID: <39EDA79E.DC836C92@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3947 Hi -- To answer the various questions on how to discern which edition & which printing you have of any of the HP books, here's what I know. 1. The ISBN has nothing to do with it. It's the same ISBN for the 1st edition, 1st printing of Sorcerer's Stone as it will be for the 3rd edition, 75th printing of SS. It's just a tracking number. As a former employee of Waldenbooks back in high school, I can remember when we had to manually enter the ISBNs into the cash register. I got real fast at typing those things (& finding them on the back covers of books). I bet things have changed a bit in the bookselling world since then, eh Lori? 2. At this point, I believe all HP books are 1st editions. There are multiple printings, but as far as I know, they have not gone back & done enough revisions to qualify as billing one of the books as a revised or 2nd edition. So . . . . if you're trying to be a collector of the more rare HP items, you don't care at *all* if it's a 1st edition (they *all* are at this point). Be wary of the Ebay sellers who bill their wares as 1st editions but can't tell you what printing it is. That's where the value is now -- the printing that you have. 3. To find what printing you have, look at the string of numbers under the Library of Congress number. Here's what my paperback CoS version looks like (I think it's a 5th printing): 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5/0 Printed in the USA 40 First Scholastic Trade paperback printing Contrast my hardback (1st printing) of GoF: 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0/0 01 02 03 04 Printed in the USA 23 First American edition, July 2000 If you bought a hardback GoF on July 8th, you have a first printing. They did 3.8 million of those in the first print run. There is a website that explains all this better than I have -- it's how I learned what to look for when I first started collecting first printings. http://www.helicon.net/paracelsus/harrypotter/ It also explains the UK editions. I *cannot* afford 1st printings in the UK editions & have contented myself with 1st printings of the US hardbacks (although the 1st printing for hardback US SS is also out of my price reach at the moment). You can still get 1st printings of the UK Deluxe Collectors editions of the books for a somewhat reasonable price (although not of PoA -- it was the first one issued in the Deluxe editions & they only printed 1000 copies in the first printing). I am very happy with my 2nd printing of the Deluxe PoA (UK). :--) Penny From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Wed Oct 18 13:44:19 2000 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (dwe199 at soton.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:44:19 -0000 Subject: call to action In-Reply-To: <4c.b9e3402.271e7d11@aol.com> Message-ID: <8sk9fj+ougf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3948 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > More questions for J.K.! Most of them have been discussed on this list, but > it never hurts to know for sure. > Did you actually read the books? Nearly all are answered therin. Dai From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 13:55:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:55:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3949 Rita Winston wrote: > *** A long time ago, this list discussed what happens if a female > Animagus is pregnant and doesn't switch back to human form before > giving birth, and concluded that Crookshanks is McGonagall's love > child by a Muggle-type Persian tomcat. I wonder if a pregnant Animagus *could* transform, since the fetus is its own entity, although connected. Wouldn't it remain human? And you can't do two spells at once, to Transform the baby, too. What an interesting question. Although as to this idea, I think McGonagall has better taste than to go off cavorting with a common tomcat. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 13:55:59 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:55:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> Message-ID: <39EDABEF.E2F66F6C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3950 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I wonder if a pregnant Animagus aaaaa! pregnant Animaga? Caius, what's the feminine? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 14:10:54 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:10:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sj5j5+bnbf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EDAF6D.F7977F20@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3951 Susan McGee wrote: > the author of that music who was (by his description) a vile slave > trader As opposed to a non-vile one? Could be a trader of vile slaves.... I've simply *got* to find a way out of editing mode! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 14:12:45 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:12:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] ?4JKR(robes) * Crookshanks * Galleons2$ * 150 years * Lycanthra References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EDAFDD.1FEC38B4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3952 Rita Winston wrote: > If you want to do some gender-bending, imagine if the Sirius Black > character were Scylla Black! But is there an equivalent canine-suggestive feminine first name? Scylla wasn't a dog or connected with them. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 14:24:25 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:24:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: call to action References: <4c.b9e3402.271e7d11@aol.com> Message-ID: <39EDB298.70EA342E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3953 Ellimist15 at aol.com wrote: > 15. Why could Dobby disapparate within Hogwarts? How about---Is what house-elves do when they appear and disappear the same as wizards Apparating? The answer to this might clear up the other, and it's shorter to answer. > 18. Why did James come out of the wand first during the duel in "Goblet of > Fire" if Voldemort killed him first? I think even if this was a giant Whoops, she won't answer this one, and'll get all mysterious on us. Wouldn't waste the chance on this one. > Why wasn't there any mention of the curse that failed to kill Harry? By mention, do you mean manifestation during the Priori Incantatem? I thought it didn't show up because it failed, so there was no ghostly anything to form. No echoes. > Is Professor Vector male or female? Female, I think, because I dimly remember thinking that was odd... probably because Vector sounds so much like Victor (I know, it's a last name, but the association got made). I can't find the offhand reference, though---anyone? > 20. Who is the head of Ravenclaw house? Why do we know so few Ravenclaws? No reason to yet? We only know the head of Hufflepuff as an aside. > 21. If Snape was once a Death Eater, why didn't he know Pettigrew was really > the spy? A good one to ask, since all we've done is speculate on Voldemort's organization and such. > 23. What's up with the whole "Snuffles" thing? I thought it was just a funny "standard" dog name like Rover or Spike. Sounds British to me, like "Tiddles" for a cat. And so silly sounding for the person to whom it refers! There *is* quite a bit of simple whimsy, just because, in the books. > 25. Why did Snape hate James so much *before* James saved his life? Do we know for sure it *was* hatred before then? Dislike I'm pretty sure of. > 27. What happens after someone has suffered a Dementor's kiss? Could Barty > Jr. return to Voldemort? How about---Does a person who has suffered the Dementor's Kiss become a dementor themselves? That's more open-ended and specific. If you ask what happens, she'll refer you to what Lupin told Harry. > 28. Why didn't Fred and George notice the name "Peter Pettigrew" on the > marauder's map? Why didn't Harry? Great question. > 30. What was Dumbledore asking Snape to do at the end of "Goblet of Fire"? Why ask any "what's gonna happen?" questions? She won't answer, and if she does we'll wish she hadn't because we won't have the fun of discovering it as we read the later books. > 31. A student named Susan Bones is sorted into Hufflepuff in Harry's first > year. Is she related to the Bones family killed by Voldemort? Interesting question, but I put this with the Mrs. Norris/cloak thing. A very minor and possibly totally irrelevant thing to waste rare author question time on. > 32. Sirius said that Crookshanks is the most intelligent of his kind that > he'd come across, but he didn't specify "his kind". Is there a possibility > that Crookshanks is not a true cat? Someone (Steve?) found the quote and he does call him a cat. Possibly a certain magical subtype of cat, a cat in the same sense that all things "Felis" are cats, and not a housecat. But a cat. > 33. Was there another Weasley between Bill/Charlie and Percy? There seems to be > quite a large gap between their ages. Another question that I think will be answered later if it's relevant. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 14:31:08 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:31:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: call to action References: <8sj8e7+fr3f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EDB42C.BE8055D9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3954 Susan McGee wrote: > This is going to sound snide, but I really am trying to be funny... > and NOT snide. > I want to say that although I'm very interested in your opinions (AND > in the opinions of all those on this list), I'd like to ask JKR the > question, because I'm more interested in her opinion. I agree, but sometimes when we throw out our responses we come to see that we already know and so we can winnow the list. Not in this case, but that's what's operating. > Why would a question -- are you going to include any non-heterosexual > characters -- imply that she is "required" or "supposed" to do it? Because it implies that the reader considers such inclusion the norm, or wants it to be, especially if one takes that reader to be a representative of the general audience. Not that she's shown any inclination of yielding to such pressure--I admire her adherence to her own vision and creativity. Myself, I think that physical relationships and the physical adult expressions of love are not part of the scope of these books. There may already *be* a gay character there (author's profiles of their characters are often much more detailed than what makes it into print--helps with authentic characterization). I don't think a gay character would necessarily "show up" unless he or she stated it in so many words, which is also not really the sort of thing discussed in these books. Kind of the way there's no foolin' around in Lord of the Rings. Lots of love, no sex. Not relevant to the story. Distracting. --Amanda From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 18 15:01:36 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:01:36 -0000 Subject: more things to add to your gift-wish-list Message-ID: <8ske0g+1agl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3955 The Warner Brothers litho is now available at http://www.wbstore.com - it's 100$US, and features harry, et al, on the boat from the Hogwarts Express to the castle - the artist is some guy who seems to be doing all the movie-related art - it's very different, stylewise, from Mary Grand Pre's stuff, and I am not sure I like it as much. Also, the "hot toys" lists from AP and Reuters both say that the Harry Potter Trivia Game should be a hot seller this holiday season - I wonder, though - will it have trivia from all 4 books to date, and if so, shouldn't it have a big red SPOILER sticker on it? Otherwise, the person who's only read up through 3/4 of Book 3 will read a card that says: "What does Sirius ask Harry, Ron & Hermione to call him when they speak of him in GoF" and be INCREDIBLY confused. From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Oct 18 14:59:22 2000 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:59:22 +0200 Subject: Scylla Black References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDAFDD.1FEC38B4@texas.net> Message-ID: <000c01c03915$5642f8e0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 3956 > But is there an equivalent canine-suggestive feminine first name? Scylla > wasn't a dog or connected with them. A mythical monster in the form of a woman who's made up from the waist down of six ravening hounds which eat passing sailors, not connected with dogs? Just to clarify - I'm not being snippy, I'm just joking around...that wasn't meant in a condescending way... Hey, maybe we could use the abbreviation CNS (cheerful, not snippy) to show that we're just joking around, and don't mean what we said in an overly serious way... Alternatively, the constellation Canis Major used to have the name of a female dog...what was it again? Started with M. Er...ask Blaise, she's the one who told me. ~Firebolt From dorband at uwp.edu Wed Oct 18 15:41:12 2000 From: dorband at uwp.edu (Brian Dorband) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:41:12 -0000 Subject: JKR on Rosie? Message-ID: <8skgao+5ohl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3957 Like so many of us, I am unable to watch the JKR appearance today on Rosie, nor the Friday appearance on the Today Show (I have my VCR set tho') - is anyone lucky enough to watch willing to post a synopsis? Please? Thanks. Brian ps - I suspect that I didn't have to ask, but I want it to be known that such a kindness is not taken for granted, not *expected*, but rather appreciated. Really. From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 15:56:10 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:56:10 -0000 Subject: Scylla Black In-Reply-To: <000c01c03915$5642f8e0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8skh6q+cld2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3958 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Firebolt" wrote: > Alternatively, the constellation Canis Major used to have the name of a > female dog...what was it again? Started with M. Er...ask Blaise, she's the > one who told me. Maera. It wasn't the name of the constellation, it was the name of the dog which, according to one version of the myth, became the constellation Canis Major. Another version has Canis Major as Orion's hunting dog, and I don't know its name. -Blaise. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 18 16:37:35 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:37:35 -0000 Subject: # of Students In-Reply-To: <8sinij+hhnb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8skjkf+u5q7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3959 It might not make any sense if there are 143 students per year enrolled in Hogwarts, but Rowling said it and this is her world...so she's the boss! ;-) Hogwarts is a magical castle. I have the impression from the description in SS/PS that it is huge. I can see the Common Rooms holding two hundred students at any one time (some ball rooms in the Ritz-Carleton or other *big* hotels have a capacity of 300). Perhaps the rooms stretch or contract to fulfill the needs of the students. My grad school class numbered 200. There were times when the class was divided in half to accomodate us and there were times when the halves were divided into smaller groups. Furthermore, I didn't *know* everyone in that class of 200. I knew them all by face. I knew the ones in my half by face and first names. But I didn't hang out with all of them. I did belong to a study group of 5 people. These were the people I *knew*. In my letters and phone conversations to home, these were the people I mentioned since they were in my "sphere of friends". We only see Harry's sphere of friends. Of the students in the years above me and below me I knew only a dozen or so. About "baby booms", if I recall correctly, the current "baby boomers" are those people born between 1940-1960. But the real baby boom occurred during the war years of 1940-1945 and spilled over to the mid-1950s, which included the Korean War. The boom was followed by a "bust" (the current "Gen-Xers"). If the same reproductive pattern occured during the Voldemort years, it is very possible that Hogwarts could admit 146 students per year during Harry's time at Hogwarts. The classes following Ginny's would be populated with the "bust" children. :-) Milz From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 17:17:51 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:17:51 -0000 Subject: whoa... [KAITLIN!] In-Reply-To: <39EB78B3.B56B5306@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sklvv+rodv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3960 I'll do it. I just meant to please forgive me if its not completely wonderful. Gotta go to class now. ~Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Kaitlin wrote: > > > Hey folks, I just realized that next week it's my turn for the > > chapter/character discussions (Ch. 16, Fleur and Viktor). But you > > know what? I also have two midterms due that week! :( > > So please have mercy on me if I do not live up to the standards of > > this fine group! > > Kaitlin -- I wasn't sure if this meant you needed it to be re-assigned > to someone else? Could you confirm with us that you are going to do it > or that you need to take one of the open weeks later in the year & get > someone else to do Ch 16 & Fleur & Viktor. > > Thanks -- > > Penny > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Wed Oct 18 17:46:35 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:46:35 -0000 Subject: political organizing In-Reply-To: <39EC5988.E4AF6BE@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sknlr+g33m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3961 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > But to take our values to other cultures and tell them > their own are wrong without a meticulous understanding of the cultural, > mythological, and ideological underpinnings of that culture is as > double-edged as what that Bible institute out of North Carolina (I think) > does, developing alphabets and writing systems for illiterate languages so > that the Bible may be translated and taught. With one hand they give them a > wonderful tool for preserving their cultural traditions, with the other they > begin to undermine those traditions Good point, Amanda, and just to bring this thread back to HP, I think that this is EXACTLY the point JKR was trying to make with the whole Hermione/SPEW thing. While it points out Hermiones compassion and budding political awareness, as a political movement it is hopeless. You cant come in from the outside and tell people (or elves) that they are oppressed and change their lives for them. It is up to them to decide if there are aspects of their culture which need to change and how and when to change them, and fight for their own freedom. Otherwise they are substituting one form of dependence for another (albeit a more benign one in some cases). -- Joywitch From kippesp at swbell.net Wed Oct 18 18:09:49 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:09:49 -0000 Subject: WSJ & Priori Incantatem Question Message-ID: <8skp1e+jssm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3962 New People: To those new people looking for good HP discussions yet are feeling overwhelmed by the flood of our messages. I'm about 2000 message behind and plan on eventually getting them all read. Mainly, the discussions are so though provoking I'd feel I'd miss out if I didn't. But, I might add, a judicious use of filtering will assist in quickly moving through topics of little interest your. Priori Incantatem: When Dumbledore is explaining this spell, he says that one of the wands will begin to reverse its spell. Any thoughts on determining which wand this happens to? Is this a function of the wand, the wizard, or is it random? WSJ: In Wednesday's WSJ, we had a little Harry Potter to enjoy. I'm including it for all to see. Paul ---------- October 18, 2000 Potterisms Are Invading the Language: Don't Be Caught Looking the 'Muggle' By MATTHEW ROSE and EMILY NELSON Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL Whenever anyone at Microsoft Corp.'s education division shoots down one of Marcia Kuszmaul's ideas, she retorts: "Don't be a muggle." In J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter series of novels, muggle is the often- pejorative term for a person who isn't a wizard. "We use it at business-planning meetings," says Ms. Kuszmaul, who manages the group at the software giant's Redmond, Wash., headquarters. "We all like to see ourselves as one of the wizards." The children's books about an unassuming orphan who turns out to be a wizard are wildly popular among people of all ages. Now, Potterisms are moving into the everyday language of work, politics and romance, where they are offering the series' millions of fans a new insiders' shorthand for all manner of good and evil. Newsday called sprinter Michael Johnson a "muggle" for flaming out of the Olympics 200-meter trials. A columnist for the Chicago Daily Herald said an NBC Olympics commentator was "the dementor of sports commentators," likening him to prison guards in the books who suck the joy out of people. In Connecticut, there's one executive at Hartford Insurance Co. "who can make your life miserable," says Lisa Lesperance, who works there. One recent afternoon, he was spotted wandering the corridors with a group of acolytes. A colleague e-mailed Ms. Lesperance as the executive passed: "Here comes Draco Malfoy and his friends," naming one of Harry's archenemies, a snobbish rich kid with loyalties to renegade wizards. "We all started giggling," says the 42-year-old Ms. Lesperance, who won't disclose her Draco's real name. Some of Ms. Lesperance's co- workers call her Hermione, after Harry's know-it-all friend, because she is the only female in their crowd. Ms. Lesperance tells co- workers to send her "owls," not e-mails, referring to the way the mail is delivered in the wizarding world. She calls the office ATM "Gringotts," after the wizard bank. Amy Lyn Gerbrandt, a 29-year-old graduate student in comparative literature at the University of California at Davis, was recently at a conference in Helsinki, where a professor was explaining that scholars should avoid letting modern ideas of right and wrong cloud their judgment of historical events. A friend leaned over during the lecture and wrote "pensieve" in Ms. Gerbrandt's notebook. A "pensieve," a device in book four, "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire," lets a person put his thoughts in a bowl to view them separately from everyday concerns. "In a pensieve, you can drain things out and clarify, and get a better sense of the now and the then," explains Ms. Gerbrandt. "All these important scholars, and Harry Potter beat them to it." Some adults have found that they had better use Potterisms with caution. After lunch at Denver's Hops Brewery one Sunday, Mary Susan Powers stood to lift her one-year-old daughter out of her highchair, and nearly knocked over a glass of iced tea. Her husband, Steve Burton, called her "so much a Neville Longbottom," after Harry Potter's klutzy friend. She snapped back, "When you know Neville's story, you'll feel sorry. So back off." The next day, Mr. Burton finished book four on his lunch break at the janitorial company he owns. He read that Neville's awkwardness stems from the tragic fate his parents met in their heroic efforts against the Dark Arts. He felt guilty and apologized to his wife. Potterisms also can backfire if delivered to the wrong crowd. Wendy Frank, who works for a New York construction company, was late for a meeting in midtown Manhattan because she couldn't find one dead-end street. "It's just like platform 9 3/4," she explained to blank looks from the executives she was visiting. Ms. Frank was talking about the King's Cross railway platform in the books that can be accessed only by wizards who walk through a solid barrier. The executives in the room didn't know what she was talking about. LeGrand S. Redfield Jr. would say they were muggles. The president of Asset Management Group Inc., in Greenwich, Conn., uses the expression to describe people who annoy him. Building contractors are muggles "when you can't find one who will do what they said they will do when they said they will do it for the price they said," explains the 45-year-old. But there's no need to limit it to contractors, he adds. " 'Muggles' can be adapted for anything that is pejorative." The Potter books have given parents new tools for scolding their kids. "What do you think this is, a Quidditch match?" yelled New Yorker David Rosenthal at his seven-year-old son, who was tearing around the family's Brooklyn brownstone. Mr. Rosenthal, a vice president at Simon & Schuster, was referring to the fast-paced and sometimes dangerous sport played by wizards on broomsticks. Even author Ms. Rowling, who says she is "bowled over" to hear people using Potterspeak, can't resist. When her seven-year-old daughter throws a temper tantrum, Ms. Rowling calls her "Dudley," after Harry's rude, fat cousin. For some of the people at Scholastic Corp. who brought Harry Potter to the U.S., it's hard to leave the books at work. Barbara Marcus, a senior executive at the publishing house, wasn't having any luck getting her six-year-old daughter to return a pen that wasn't hers. "Expelliarmus," came a cry from behind the bedroom door as Ms. Marcus's husband, Michael Pollack, entered the fray. By invoking the Potter spell that makes people drop what they're holding, Mr. Pollack persuaded their daughter to give up the pen. Another Potter spell helps Kris Chadderton, a 21-year-old music major at Swarthmore College, "any time I'm under pressure," she says. Before her piano recitals, she paces the halls and mutters a special spell that wards off dementors: "Expecto patronum, expecto patronum." Harry Potter works like a charm for Amy Cohen, helping the 42-year- old New Yorker find dates. In July, she posted a personal ad on several Web sites and at a Manhattan coffee shop. She described herself -- then added -- "I idolize Harry Potter." Replies flooded in and she is now exchanging e-mail with five men who litter their messages with Potterisms. One suggested a Quidditch match for their first date. "It's funny what it's doing for my social life," Ms. Cohen says. "They're good people, Harry Potter people." Write to Matthew Rose at matthew.rose at wsj.com and Emily Nelson at emily.nelson at wsj.com Copyright ? 2000 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 18:19:53 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:19:53 -0000 Subject: ISBN numbers, editions In-Reply-To: <00a401c038e7$14169900$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8skpk9+ecp5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3963 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Firebolt" wrote: > On the same line as the Printed in the USA line, there should be a number, > like 56 or 37 or 23 or whatever. I think that's what Susan means... > > ~Firebolt Thanks, Firebolt. Strangely, mine has no number there. Does anyone know what this means? Maybe after the 50th printing they stop including the edition number, or something like that? I can't figure it out, and have no idea. Kelley From shahara9 at aol.com Wed Oct 18 18:24:33 2000 From: shahara9 at aol.com (shahara9 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:24:33 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] WSJ & Priori Incantatem Question Message-ID: <84.c2767f8.271f44e1@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3964 This has probably been mentioned before, but I am a newbie on the list, and this has puzzled me. If this spell works as explained, why was Harry's father out of the wand before his mothers? Wasn't the father killed first, then he (you-know-who) went after Harry, but had to kill the mother to get to him? I'm sure he killed the father first, then the mother; so how could the father have come out of the wand, telling Harry his mother was coming next if the killed ones come out in reverse?? I read all 4 books to my children, and this is one of the continuity questions we had. << Priori Incantatem: When Dumbledore is explaining this spell, he says that one of the wands will begin to reverse its spell. >> From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 09:47:21 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:47:21 +1000 Subject: questions - the 'gay' one References: <8sj8po+vk9m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3965 Hey - I'm not sure who wrote this but anyway (having swore off every mentioning anything related again) I'd have to say that I rarely read books > > thinking "I wish they'd written a gay character into this" I'm going to assume who ever said this is hetrosexual, As a wee kiddie it would have been great to see a slash charator in these books (of course they weren't written when I was a wee kiddie but if they had been.) you can have no idea how isolating it can be to never see yourself/life experance reflected back in anything - think about this (opps, buffy referance coming up)in one of the second series Buffy is sitting on the bed, arm around Angel having a smoochy moment then she looks at the mirror and she has her arm around no-one. and even as an adult, when I read, watch tele, listen to pollies talk about our great society - there is nothing there reflecting my experance back at me. when hetro ppl do these sort of things - lots of role models. ppl talk about thier familes without having to consider that they might offend someone else by 'shoving your sexuality in my face' (hey I just mentioned my girlfriend's existance) Now of course for lots of ppl there is nothing relecting thier life back at them, black ppl in predominatly white neighbourhoods, deaf ppl in hearing communities but this is why ppl do concragate in groups, in enclaves, have specific TV shows or litrature for that relection. And of course the slash community has an element of that too a week or so ago Jinx (I think) said something about how when she is reading she doesn't think of gender (I think it was, not sexuality) but later, when she is writing her self into the story - making it her own - then these issues come up for her. I'm pretty sure that we have all spent a long time 'writing ourselves' in to JKR's world - o/w we wouldn't be there! I see a lot of reflection of hetro relationships, and if I were a straight reader I would probely not see the absence of gay/lesbian/bi/trans ppl. but as I'm not, I do and (what I'm coming around to) is saying that it can't hurt to ask her, maybe it will promt her to give lavender another dimension to her charactor. alright, I'm back to swearing off never mentioning anything about gender or sexuality every again (until the next time!) storm eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 18:33:32 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:33:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Scylla Black References: <8skh6q+cld2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EDECFB.6A7CD68B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3966 Blaise wrote: > Maera. It wasn't the name of the constellation, it was the name of > the dog which, according to one version of the myth, became the > constellation Canis Major. Another version has Canis Major as > Orion's hunting dog, and I don't know its name. Sirius is a star in the constellation, and is known as the Dog Star for that reason. It's the brightest star in it. The presence of Sirius in the sky also gave rise to the "dog days" of August. I thought Scylla had snake heads, sorry. --Amanda From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 18:58:28 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:58:28 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sfudl+feel@eGroups.com> <052601c037d1$03293a60$2bb8073e@johnmitt> <003001c037e3$efe15600$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <000c01c03935$87b65fa0$358e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3967 ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rogers > For an example of Jinx's theory, see the Quidditch matches in SS/PS. First Snape tries to keep Harry on the broom, and the second he volunteers to referee the match. From the reaction of Oliver, I seem to think that perhaps he's an "Anti-Quidditch" person (meant that humourously, btw, basically the same personality as I have for Cav's basketball--the TV can stay off! I don't care one way or the other. I don't hate basketball, it's just not on my top 50 things to watch....Disney on the other hand -- as I watch Eddie Murphy playing with fire...) > > Hermione feels the same way I think Snape feels about it--why do you have to be "Q-centered" all the time? There's more things in life, like STUDYING! Grins. Mind you, that could also be because Snape is Head of Slytherin and therefore incredibly biased against Gryffindor. :) I don't think he minds Quidditch if the Slyths are winning... Jinx From ashley1591284 at cs.com Wed Oct 18 18:53:16 2000 From: ashley1591284 at cs.com (ashley1591284 at cs.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:53:16 EDT Subject: the gay question (longish) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3968 Hi! I've been a long-time lurker here, most of the time letting the digests pile up so far in my inbox that any comment that I would think to make has already been addressed by the time I get to it. I thought I'd put my two-cents in on this one though.... In a message dated 10/18/00 12:21:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: << Bearing in mind the number of younger readers these books have, is it feasible that JKR will write in several gay characters? Like it or not, the introduction of a gay character would detract from the story (unless you think JKR might be planning to out Harry in book 7, or reveal that Dumbledore and Snape are longtime boyfriends). Not only would the author be treading on eggshells as she tried to deal with a very sensitive topic, but also every hack journalist and `family values' crusader would be on her case. Of course, this is not a *good* reason not to do it, but it is a likely reason she won't do it. >> I argee that the introduction of a gay character would probably distract from the central plot, as well as bring the books under fire. These books have raised a lot of controversey already from critics for religious reasons, violence, etc., and to introduce an issue of that magnitude would be all but devastating. It's not right, or fair, but that's the way it is. We have to remember that the HP books have a universal appeal, and although we, as older teens or adults, may thouroughly enjoy them, there are also an incredible number of kids that read them. I understand the need for a positive gay/lesbian role model, but to introduce one into the Harry Potter series just doesn't work, for more reasons than one. How would JKR be able to explain something like that in a way that would be benificial to the story? IMO, this is a sensitive issue that should be tackled on a more personal level, and I doubt that we'll see a character turn out to be gay. -Ashley From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 19:07:34 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:07:34 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits... References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> <003a01c037e5$4673b340$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <000f01c03936$ae0eda00$358e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3969 ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rogers To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 3:52 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups]Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits... > What roles are there available to wizard women besides Mothering? Would be interesting to see. > > Does Mrs. Draco have a career? Or is she the "social-type" going always to luncheons and etc....? > > It's worth a thought. > I seriously want to know what you think might be women's field of careers! Auror. Quidditch player. Maker of all the various gadgets like Sneakoscopes and Invisibility Cloaks that are so essential to the plot (and the ones that aren't, like the Zonko's toys and sweets from Honeydukes). Gatherer of Potions ingredients. Ministry bureaucrat. Head of a Ministry Department or even Minister of Magic (I strongly tip Hermione for that job one day!). Carer of various magical creatures. Broomstick tester/designer/manufacturer. Owl breeder. Cat breeder. Writer of spellbooks. Acquirer of wand cores. Use your imagination, there's plenty of stuff out there if you think about it! Plenty of things that need doing in the magical world. Jinx From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Wed Oct 18 19:21:45 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 18 Oct 2000 19:21:45 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <971896905.37826@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3970 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: Which character(s) from the Harry Potter books do you most identify with? o Harry o Hermione o Ron o Dumbledore o Snape o Draco Malfoy o McGonagall o Fred and George Weasley o Sirus Black o Lupin o Mr Weasley o Mrs Weasley o Mad Eye Moody o Dobby o Hagrid To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 18 19:22:08 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:22:08 -0000 Subject: political awareness and Hogsmeade In-Reply-To: <8sknlr+g33m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8skt90+slpg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3971 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: I think > that this is EXACTLY the point JKR was trying to make with the whole > Hermione/SPEW thing. While it points out Hermiones compassion and > budding political awareness, as a political movement it is hopeless. > You cant come in from the outside and tell people (or elves) that > they are oppressed and change their lives for them. It is up to them > to decide if there are aspects of their culture which need to change > and how and when to change them, and fight for their own freedom. > Otherwise they are substituting one form of dependence for another > (albeit a more benign one in some cases). > > -- Joywitch I keep wondering when it will occur to Hermione to ask exactly how Hogsmeade is maintained as an all-wizarding village. Some form of wizard apartheidt? (horrors!) From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 19:36:18 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:36:18 -0000 Subject: Editions/Printing In-Reply-To: <39EDA79E.DC836C92@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sku3i+pt7f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3972 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > 3. To find what printing you have, look at the string of numbers under > the Library of Congress number. Here's what my paperback CoS version > looks like (I think it's a 5th printing): > > 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5/0 > Printed in the USA 40 > First Scholastic Trade paperback printing > > Contrast my hardback (1st printing) of GoF: > > 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0/0 01 02 03 04 > Printed in the USA 23 > First American edition, July 2000 > > Penny Penny-- Thank you for the info. This is going to make me sound even more stupid, but I ~have~ to be looking in the wrong place. Nowhere, in or on my books, can I find this info. Can someone tell me definitively, should I be looking on the page that has the text copyright, the illustration copyright, the publisher info, "no reproduction w/o written permission of the publisher", etc.? If this is the right place, then none of the printing number info is there. I'm at a loss. Kelley From shahara9 at aol.com Wed Oct 18 19:42:38 2000 From: shahara9 at aol.com (shahara9 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:42:38 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <6b.b208d92.271f572e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3973 what?? no Pomfrey?? ~shahara Witch, and mamma of 5...very much a Madame Pomfrey =) From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Oct 18 19:40:06 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:40:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups References: <6b.b208d92.271f572e@aol.com> Message-ID: <003901c0393b$3abd1da0$c98fd6ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 3974 > what?? no Pomfrey?? > ~shahara > Witch, and mamma of 5...very much a Madame Pomfrey =) What about Ginny? carole From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 19:45:49 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:45:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Identification References: <8sgcst+p1q8@eGroups.com> <39EBC40F.D48CF16B@texas.net> Message-ID: <000601c0393c$09da5b20$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3975 > Hey, List Powers! Why don't you keep a list of us and who we identify with > on the site? I don't remember what everyone said. > > --Amanda I just set a poll up so you can do just that. It just remains for everyone else to go and put some votes up. It's not anonymous, I might add. But then, neither is broadcasting your thoughts to the list. You can also choose more than one character. If yours is not there, let me know now so I can change it before the votes start going up. Requests for Voldemort will be ignored. :) Jinx From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 18 19:49:08 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:49:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: call to action References: <8sk9fj+ougf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EDFEB4.6EAD5A35@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3976 Hi -- dwe199 at soton.ac.uk wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote: > > More questions for J.K.! Most of them have been discussed on this > list, but it never hurts to know for sure. > > > > Did you actually read the books? Nearly all are answered therin. Dai -- if you can answer nearly all the questions that were in Ellie's list, I for one would love to know the answers. :--) I think that all of those questions are *not* in fact answered in the books or interviews with JKR. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 18 19:54:47 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:54:47 -0500 Subject: Editions/Printing; Train Bookends References: <8sku3i+pt7f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE0007.473585D0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3977 Hi -- Kelley wrote: > Can someone tell me definitively, should I be looking on the page that > has the text copyright, the illustration copyright, the publisher > info, "no reproduction w/o written permission of the publisher", > etc.? If this > is the right place, then none of the printing number info is there. > I'm at a loss. Yes, that's the right page. There's no string of numbers anywhere on that page? Is there an ISBN number on that page? Then some categories for card catalogues or something? Then, there's no string of numbers followed by "Printed in the U.S.A. ___" & the next line down "First American edition, [date]"??? That would be odd. Hmmmmm . . . . I have no thoughts why that might be. I was at the WB Store earlier today (in Houston) -- I bought one of the Mystery Games. They had several of those. They also had about 20 sets of the Train Bookends, so they are definitely not all that rare or sold out or limited edition. If anyone is having a terrible time finding a set & doesn't mind paying shipping, I will offer to go obtain them here since there's such a surplus. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 19:52:17 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:52:17 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends References: <8sbbvm+p5l1@eGroups.com> <010701c037f1$e5386be0$0fc54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <001701c0393c$ed50f260$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3978 ----- Original Message ----- From: Caius Marcius To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 5:22 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends > Oh, now, Susan, we all regard you as a first-class citizen at HP for > Grownups. And do you really think that making Voldy or Snape or Malfoy > female would mollify the Gender Critics? "Rowling displays her gender-based > self-hatred by displacing what she concieves of as Evil onto the diabolic > maternal figure of Voldemort, in which the archetypal Female is inextricably > linked as the castrating antagonist opposing the so-called protagonist, > whose usurpation of the antique matriarchal symbol of the Broom in which to > cavort in his Male Competitive Power Games, blah blah blah......." Anyone who regards Voldemort as a role model is a seriously sick individual. All in all, I think he works quite well as he is. As do most of the male characters, I might add (Dumbledore, Snape, Sirius, Harry, Ron). Just one or two gender changes might have been appropriate. At least one other adult female on the good side and with a fairly important role would do me. I believe someone (Ebony?) mentioned why we're not getting worked up about the lack of ethnic minorities in there. Truth is, the UK is 90% white, so all in all, you wouldn't expect there to be that many non-whites around. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 20:03:49 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:03:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> <002b01c0380d$3d8db000$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <003201c0393e$95259e40$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3979 It was me wrote that. Not sure how your name got there though, maybe I was responding to something you'd done. I was pointing out some of Snape's good points - even he has some. I didn't mean to let him off the hook for the way he treats his students - he is an evil git sometimes. Just that the horrible side is much more obvious so does not require pointing out to the same extent. Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rogers To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape > Susan, > I didn't say that! Promise! Not certain why my name's above that phrase, perhaps it was a quote of someone responding to something I responded to that someone responded to...... > > > Dee > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Susan McGee > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:15 AM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Neville and Snape > > > > > > Dee > > > > > > > > > > > > Snape may be bitter and twisted, but you know what, there's no > one I'd > > rather have on my side in a fight. He knows his stuff, he's > honourable, > > dependable, loyal. If he's on your side, he stays there and > backs you up no > > matter what. And you'd have to let him down in a seriously big > way for him > > to turn against you. Also, he holds grudges like no one else, > and if you > > have a common enemy with him, you are virtually assured he will > not betray > > you to them. Which is why AD wants him around. > > > > Never insult Albus Dumbledore in front of me! > That said, I am disappointed in my hero AD for tolerating > Snape's behavior. Snape is not doing "tough love". > > Professor...you have Neville Longbottom in your class. that means > disaster. No one learns by being humiliated, and Snape consistently > picks on Neville. Snape (unlike Harry) MUST know that Neville has > lost his parents to the Death Eaters. Was Snape one who tortured > Neville's parents? (Perhaps not specifically, but let us remember > that Snape did something equivalent or he would not have been a death > eater). > > Obviously, Snape has redeemed himself or he would not be at Hogwarts, > but let us remember the havor that the DEs wrought. (I am > continuously perplexed by those who post and say that Voldemort just > killed a bunch of people...what's the big deal....I guess it would > be a major deal if you came home one day to find the death mark over > your house and your partner and children dead?) > > > Snape's redemption probably warrants a whole novel by itself. > > Yet, his behavior towards students is inexcusable. He is absolutely > and totally unfair towards Harry, Neville and the rest of the > Gryffindors. He starts out by targeting Harry, asking him unfair > questions, and taking points from G. Why? He doesn't like Harry's > father (oooh, that's a good reason). When he threatens Harry with the > truth serum, he is scary. And again, what he does to Neville is vile. > > Susan > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 21:01:05 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (Snuffles Macgoo) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:01:05 GMT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: call to action Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3980 --Amanda said - I don't think a gay character would necessarily "show up" unless he or she stated it in so many words, which is also not really the sort of thing discussed in these books. Kind of the way there's no foolin' around in Lord of the Rings. Lots of love, no sex. Not relevant to the story. Distracting. lots of love, lots of married hetro ppl (not that there is anything wrong with that) can't we have a couple of spinsters living together?, something understated but a possiblity would be *nice*. I don't think I want to see explict slash sex (check that - I *know* I don't want to see that here. of course the story - children from a nuclear family does not automatically lend itself to that but... but .... you know JKR makes so many amazing things just part of her world. storm _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 20:38:25 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:38:25 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Possible question to pose to JKR References: <20001017185557.18197.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016b01c0394a$3c715f80$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3981 ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Stub To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 7:55 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Possible question to pose to JKR > In fear that this might be one of the > "already-asked-a-million-times-before"-questions: > > What is the approximate value of a galleon? > > My personal guess is at around 10/$15(US). If a wand costs eight galleons (says it somewhere, I think in PS where Harry gets his) that makes it worth... EIGHTY POUNDS??? Good lord... Are they really worth that much?? I mean, I know they're expensive but even so... Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 20:57:06 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:57:06 +0100 Subject: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) References: <8scb4c+8fbm@eGroups.com> <39EA6626.BEB4C7C@texas.net> <04c101c037cb$0818b6a0$2bb8073e@johnmitt> <003a01c037e5$4673b340$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <016c01c0394a$4254f100$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3982 ----- Original Message ----- From: storm stanford To: Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups]Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits... > sometimes I think it's because JKR appears (to me) to have 'borrowed' the structure from a type of novel written in the 50's and 40's - school and kids adventure type books. goodness knows she has been so inventive in almost every other area of the books I could understand her conforming to 'type' on this (if that is indeed what she is doing.) What other ideas do ppl have? Must be it. I mean, I've been doing some thinking on this, and if JKR's as leftwing as she's said to be, it's the only possible explanation... Maybe the 50's atmosphere is there precisely to highlight how the wizarding world needs to change. I mean, one thing I've been thinking is that nothing is ever completely independent of the society that produces it. Meaning that maybe Voldemort is not some evil aberration but a logical extension of the society that spawned him. Maybe the Magic Kingdom is deeply flawed in some way, and needs to change. And maybe the Voldemort conflict about to erupt is the catalyst for that. Compare it to WWI which came about because of European imperialist powers quarrelling over land, and various oppressed peoples getting sick of it. It changed the balance of power, but didn't change society very much, and left a lot of loose ends hanging, which came together to create WWII. That war completely changed the global political scene, and it's left us with a world that is very different to what it was before. The first Voldemort years (1970 - 1981) (Vold War One - not my phrase BTW so thanks to whoever came up with it) changed wizard society somewhat but not that much, and left a lot of loose ends. Voldemort was still alive, and a lot of his followers were left in positions of power (Malfoy Sr.), or in hiding (Wormtail), ready to help him if he ever came back. Maybe the forthcoming conflict, Vold War Two (I so love that phrase!), will radically change the Magic World in some way. Either there'll be so much devastation, or the Ministry will be completely unable to cope and be revealed as corrupt/incompetent, that there will be no choice but for new leaders to emerge and new institutions to be created. I'd like to see the veil of secrecy be lifted, and the wizards/witches become part of Muggle society again. It would be rather more difficult for anti-muggle born prejudice to flourish in a situation where they all had to integrate with Muggles regularly. Also, it would be much harder for the Dursleys of this world to treat their witch offspring as freaks if the magical community was visible. Finally, what is the point of having magic if not to use it for the benefit of the rest of your species. Even if Muggles can't do magic themselves, there's no reason why they can't have witches around to do it for them on occasions. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 21:05:55 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:05:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. References: <8siv0d+7oo7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <016d01c0394a$4569d220$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3983 ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelley To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 2:39 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: John Cleese is in talks over playing a ghost. > I'm with you, Lori. Isn't it not until CoS that Sir Cadogan shows > up? I just finished rereading SS, and I don't remember him in > there. Don't they first meet him when looking for Trelawney's > class? Also, I seem to recall Sir C being rather short and maybe > stocky. Cleese would be a tad tall, don't you think? To me the only > ghost he really seems right for is N.H.Nick. > > Kelley PoA. He helps Harry and Ron find Divination class, then later gets enlisted as the Gryffindor gatekeeper after Sirius attacks the Fat Lady. That's his first appearance. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 21:15:58 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:15:58 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Too Much Email! References: Message-ID: <016f01c0394a$490373a0$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3984 Set it to digest on the egroups site. That may help. Or read it on the web and just read the stuff you want to look at. Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: L. L. M. To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 4:45 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Too Much Email! > Ahh! I just joined the mailing list a few days ago and I'm just getting > SCADS of emails! I get home at 3:30 and i've already got 70+! I'd really > love to stay on the list and contribute and stuff but I can't handle reading > everything. Does anyone have any suggestions on coping? > I'm a member of the Paradigm of Uncertainty list (sorta a lurker) and thats > just enough email, so I'm not used to this huge amount, and I need a list > where I can talk freely about anything harry potter w/ more mature people > than any hp group...any suggestiosn anyone? > ::goes insane:: > Lynnia > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 21:24:36 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:24:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] political awareness and Hogsmeade References: <8skt90+slpg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <017001c0394a$4a532520$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3985 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] political awareness and Hogsmeade > I keep wondering when it will occur to Hermione to ask exactly how > Hogsmeade is maintained as an all-wizarding village. Some form of > wizard apartheidt? (horrors!) I'd guess that it's protected by some sort of spell and isn't visible to non-witches/wizards. Just a hunch. Jinx From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 18 20:54:36 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:54:36 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> Message-ID: <39EE0E0B.A5FD38FB@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 3986 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Rita Winston wrote: > > > *** A long time ago, this list discussed what happens if a female > > Animagus is pregnant and doesn't switch back to human form before > > giving birth, and concluded that Crookshanks is McGonagall's love > > child by a Muggle-type Persian tomcat. > > I wonder if a pregnant Animagus *could* transform, since the fetus is its > own entity, although connected. Wouldn't it remain human? And you can't do > two spells at once, to Transform the baby, too. But there is probably some way to do 2 spells at once - otherwise, witches who apparate without knowing they were pregnant would leave the fetus behind which wouldprobably be some sort of a Splinch. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 21:29:46 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:29:46 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups References: <6b.b208d92.271f572e@aol.com> <003901c0393b$3abd1da0$c98fd6ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <017d01c0394a$9f3e5780$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3987 I knew there was someone. Anyone else want someone added? Jinx ----- Original Message ----- From: lrcjestes To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups > > > > what?? no Pomfrey?? > > ~shahara > > Witch, and mamma of 5...very much a Madame Pomfrey =) > > What about Ginny? > > carole > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Oct 18 21:15:00 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:15:00 +0100 Subject: * Lycanthra References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <016e01c0394a$46d98ec0$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 3988 ----- Original Message ----- From: Rita Winston To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:02 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] ?4JKR(robes) * Crookshanks * Galleons2$ * 150 years * Lycanthra > *** Lupe de los Lobos? Lycia Ulf? I want Lupin's mother to be named > Ida. It would work for the Marauders' friendship relationship if the > Lupin character were a female friend with lycanthropy, but it > wouldn't work for PoA's social agenda, formerly known as the moral > of the story, which is that the kindest, most gentle, best teacher is > the one who is hounded out of the school for being a dangerous > werewolf: an anti-sterotyping, anti-bigotry message. But our cultural > stereotype that expects women to be kind and gentle (to children, > anyway) means that the kind, gentle woman teacher, fitting the > readers' habitual expectation, would not be noticed and therefore the > moral would not be noticed. Not necessarily. I don't think it's Lupin being kind and gentle that necessarily marks him out, it's that he's the first decent DADA teacher they've had, esp. compared to Lockhart in the previous book. Also, he knows how to repel a Dementor, which is a vital thing, and is what cements the friendship between him and Harry and gets him noticed (his first scene involves him getting rid of the dementor on the train, then there's the anti-Dementor lessons). Also having Lupin as a woman may well have made a more dramatic impact when the werewolf identity was revealed. > If you want to do some gender-bending, imagine if the Sirius Black > character were Scylla Black! My mind just flipped. Anyway, that makes her sound like a British TV presenter and 60's child star. Jinx From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 18 21:43:07 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:43:07 -0000 Subject: political awareness and Hogsmeade In-Reply-To: <017001c0394a$4a532520$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8sl5hb+nkvp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3989 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:22 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] political awareness and Hogsmeade > > > > I keep wondering when it will occur to Hermione to ask exactly how > > Hogsmeade is maintained as an all-wizarding village. Some form of > > wizard apartheidt? (horrors!) > > I'd guess that it's protected by some sort of spell and isn't visible to > non-witches/wizards. > > Just a hunch. > > Jinx So mixed families aren't allowed to live there? Pippin From shahara9 at aol.com Wed Oct 18 21:38:41 2000 From: shahara9 at aol.com (shahara9 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:38:41 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] price of wands/Possible question to pose to JKR Message-ID: <93.1fc7ba8.271f7261@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3990 A friend of mine makes wands...they are of thick copper tubing, decorated uniquely, and sell on average of $50, some more elaborate ones nearing $80. I think if it contained horn of unicorn or feather of phoenix, the price might truly rise! =) ~shahara in WI << > What is the approximate value of a galleon? > > My personal guess is at around ?10/$15(US). If a wand costs eight galleons (says it somewhere, I think in PS where Harry gets his) that makes it worth... EIGHTY POUNDS??? Good lord... Are they really worth that much?? I mean, I know they're expensive but even so... >> From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Oct 18 21:42:32 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:42:32 -0000 Subject: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) In-Reply-To: <016c01c0394a$4254f100$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8sl5g9+68ke@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3991 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: storm stanford " I'd like to see the veil of secrecy be lifted, and the wizards/witches become part of Muggle society again. It would be rather more difficult for anti-muggle born prejudice to flourish in a situation where they all had to integrate with Muggles regularly. Also, it would be much harder for the Dursleys of this world to treat their witch offspring as freaks if the magical community was visible. Finally, what is the point of having magic if not to use it for the benefit of the rest of your species. Even if Muggles can't do magic themselves, there's no reason why they can't have witches around to do it for them on occasions." That optimism for the wizarding world revealing itself is probably not justified. I suspect that the wizarding world would replace Jewish people as the group blamed for everything, like this: "If they're so powerful, why haven't they stopped world hunger? prevented war? Saved my miserable existence?" "Sure, it's easy for them, they can just disappear and reappear anywhere they want. I have to take two buses and walk in the rain." "Those witches and wizards have been running everything for years to suit themselves and we didn't even know it. This explains a lot." Eventually we get to "My sister's girlfriend says she heard they sacrifice "muggle" babies for some of their spells." It's all happened before. I put words like that in Hermione's mouth in a fanfic I wrote once; I think the wizarding world is better off hidden. Jealousy and envy would follow them wherever they went. Hate is never far behind. From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Wed Oct 18 21:54:27 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:54:27 -0000 Subject: Filming HP in Oxford? Message-ID: <8sl66j+v61g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3992 Perhaps Simon or someone who knows about the movie can confirm this, but I've heard a rumour that they're going to be filming the movie at Christ Church College here in Oxford this weekend. Is it true? I don't really know Christ Church all that well, but the front quad is very impressive and it has lots of towers and suchlike, so it could look like Hogwarts with a bit of tweaking of the pictures. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me before I waste my weekend wandering around looking for a film site? -Blaise. From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 18 22:03:16 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:03:16 -0000 Subject: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) In-Reply-To: <8sl5g9+68ke@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sl6n4+v4oi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3993 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > That optimism for the wizarding world revealing itself is probably > not > justified. I suspect that the wizarding world would replace Jewish > people as the group blamed for everything, like this: > > "If they're so powerful, why haven't they stopped world hunger? > prevented war? Saved my miserable existence?" > > "Sure, it's easy for them, they can just disappear and reappear > anywhere they want. I have to take two buses and walk in the rain." > > "Those witches and wizards have been running everything for years to > suit themselves and we didn't even know it. This explains a lot." > > Eventually we get to > > "My sister's girlfriend says she heard they sacrifice "muggle" babies > for some of their spells." > > It's all happened before. I put words like that in Hermione's mouth > in a fanfic I wrote once; I think the wizarding world is better off > hidden. Jealousy and envy would follow them wherever they went. Hate > is never far behind. If we can take it, they can take it. Shalom, Pippin From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:00:15 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:00:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups References: <6b.b208d92.271f572e@aol.com> <003901c0393b$3abd1da0$c98fd6ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39EE1D6F.10333540@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3994 Should we make sure all the character options are set before we vote? Will adding one wipe out the earlier entries? --Amanda lrcjestes wrote: > > what?? no Pomfrey?? > > ~shahara > > Witch, and mamma of 5...very much a Madame Pomfrey =) > > What about Ginny? > > carole > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 21:59:15 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:59:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] political awareness and Hogsmeade References: <8skt90+slpg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE1D32.6EEAEC21@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3995 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > I keep wondering when it will occur to Hermione to ask exactly how > Hogsmeade is maintained as an all-wizarding village. Some form of > wizard apartheidt? (horrors!) I don't think they mean strictly wizard inhabitants. I think they mean everyone lives and operates in the wizarding world. Muggles can move in that world, as witnessed by the Muggle students--the problem is *getting* there. Muggles can live in Hogsmeade, if they work there or married a witch or wizard--but their paper is the Daily Prophet, it comes by owl, they get paid in Galleons, etc. At least that's how I interpreted it. --Amanda From rhodhry at yahoo.no Wed Oct 18 22:10:05 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:10:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Possible question to pose to JKR Message-ID: <20001018221005.7240.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 3996 I based my assumption on the Omnioculars, and the Weasley-family's trip to Egypt. The Omnioculars were 10 Galleon. Harry's statement ("...but you won't be getting any Christmas presents - for ten years, mind." or something like that) gives an indication on the general level of expense that seems to be norm for Christmas gifts between friends. If you assume a price somewhere around that of a book, or a full-price CD, then 10/$15(US) per Galleon doesn't seem to be to unrealistic. It would leave the price the Weasley's won in PoA at 7,000/10,500, assuming about 6,000/$9,000 spent on the trip to Egypt. I do not see that as being way off for a trip for that many people, counting in that relations with the ministry and Gringotts, and the fact that they are visiting a relative, might result in certain discounts. --- Jinx skrev: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christian Stub > To: > Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 7:55 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Possible question to pose > to JKR > > > > In fear that this might be one of the > > "already-asked-a-million-times-before"-questions: > > > > What is the approximate value of a galleon? > > > > My personal guess is at around 10/$15(US). > > If a wand costs eight galleons (says it somewhere, I > think in PS where Harry > gets his) that makes it worth... EIGHTY POUNDS??? > Good lord... Are they > really worth that much?? I mean, I know they're > expensive but even so... > > Jinx > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 18 22:08:54 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:08:54 +0100 Subject: Movie in Oxford Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 3997 Blaise wrote: "Perhaps Simon or someone who knows about the movie can confirm this, but I've heard a rumour that they're going to be filming the movie at Christ Church College here in Oxford this weekend. Is it true? I don't really know Christ Church all that well, but the front quad is very impressive and it has lots of towers and suchlike, so it could look like Hogwarts with a bit of tweaking of the pictures. Can anyone confirm or deny this for me before I waste my weekend wandering around looking for a film site?" I live just down from Christ Church College and odd things were going on there over the weekend. Someone has put up a couple of large marquis at the top of the meadow. At first I thought nothing of this, as it is not unusual for such things to be in Oxford. But they have been there a while and I have yet to find any reason for them. In the last couple of days I have not been through Christ Church, or up through the meadow and even if I had I have been going through either extremely early or late (lectures and classes - they really get in the way). Tomorrow I have a bit more free time so intend to wander in and have a look (and maybe take some pictures if I can find anything). Tonight I was walking home (just going past Christ Church as the conversation turned to HP) and the friend I was with mentioned that a friend of hers (a Hp nut by the sounds of it) had said that the film crew are already in Oxford and are using some part of Christ Church College. I have been online but can find nothing that confirms this. But also I can find nothing that instantly contradicts this from being the truth. This is not the first rumour of the filming being in Oxford either. When I got back, a couple of weeks ago now, I heard a rumour that my own college (Hertford) would also be in the filming. More news when, and if, I get it. Simon From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:07:32 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:07:32 -0500 Subject: Git along, y'all References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> <002b01c0380d$3d8db000$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <003201c0393e$95259e40$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EE1F23.6D6DEDE5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3998 What exactly is the technical definition of "git"? This is not a Standard Texan Form of Speech, you understand... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:05:47 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:05:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends References: <8sbbvm+p5l1@eGroups.com> <010701c037f1$e5386be0$0fc54b0c@cq5wu> <001701c0393c$ed50f260$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EE1EBB.FC8C5B3B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 3999 Jinx wrote: > I believe someone (Ebony?) mentioned why we're not getting worked up about > the lack of ethnic minorities in there. Truth is, the UK is 90% white, so > all in all, you wouldn't expect there to be that many non-whites around. Actually, I've always been impressed by JKR's casual and natural inclusion of variety. It was never directly stated, but I took Lee Jordan to be black, Angelina certainly is, and Parvati and Padma are Indian (India, not red). What other major ethnic minorites would show up in a random sample of British kids? (I really don't know, not trying to inflame anyone). I thought it way cool that she saw no need to foot-stomp "Here be minorities!"; but instead treated their inclusion was something so appropriate as to not need mention. Or much mention. --Amanda From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Wed Oct 18 22:15:57 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:15:57 +0100 Subject: Slightly OT- JRK and Ethnic Minorities in UK. References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> <002b01c0380d$3d8db000$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <003201c0393e$95259e40$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <003101c03951$1f4195e0$7755893e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4000 Jinx wrote (paraphrased >The UK is 90% white. 90% white seems a little on the high side to me even as an average. Out of interset where did you obtain your stats. If they are accurate it would be very useful for my college work. If Hogwarts is in the are of Scotland suggested it would be nearly 99% white, (Although as Hogwarts is boarding and pupils come from all over this isn't relevent.) or possibly more. London, Bradford, Birmingham, Mabchester etc however are at least 60:40 I should think if not 50:50. I also believe there is a large Asian community in Cardiff. Certainly the London inner city nurseries and primary schools I am training in reflect this, indeed in the current placement there are more non-whites than whites. South West of Bristol you are looking at much lower figures. Heather, both puzzled and interested From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:14:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:14:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] political awareness and Hogsmeade References: <8skt90+slpg@eGroups.com> <017001c0394a$4a532520$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EE20DE.A39836D1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4001 Jinx wrote: > I'd guess that it's protected by some sort of spell and isn't visible to > non-witches/wizards. But all wizarding locales are, unless they're too big like the World Cup stadium. That is, they're hidden or have repel spells or what seems to be the equivalent of the SEP field on them. I would think Muggles stumble across wizard locales only very rarely. --Amanda From rhodhry at yahoo.no Wed Oct 18 22:19:04 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:19:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: call to action Message-ID: <20001018221904.8413.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4002 If we wish to pose this as a question, is it perhaps better to pose it as a general question on the lines of "What is the situation of GLBT in the Potter universe?", rather than specifically ask if a gay/lesbian character will appear in future books. I am not foreign to ask Rowling on the topic, I just have the (unnecessary, as far as I could read from a previous post) concern that the result might be a character being there for the sole purpose of being a positive rolemodel, thus becoming artificial (I am also concerned that it might draw a lot of flak towards her). --- Snuffles Macgoo skrev: > --Amanda said - > I don't think a gay character would necessarily > "show up" unless he or she stated it in so many > words, which is also not > really the sort of thing discussed in these books. > Kind of the way there's > no foolin' around in Lord of the Rings. Lots of > love, no sex. Not relevant > to the story. Distracting. > > lots of love, lots of married hetro ppl (not that > there is anything wrong > with that) can't we have a couple of spinsters > living together?, something > understated but a possiblity would be *nice*. I > don't think I want to see > explict slash sex (check that - I *know* I don't > want to see that here. of > course the story - children from a nuclear family > does not automatically > lend itself to that but... but .... you know > JKR makes so many amazing things just part of her > world. > > storm > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com. > > Share information about yourself, create your own > public profile at > http://profiles.msn.com. > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From shahara9 at aol.com Wed Oct 18 22:18:57 2000 From: shahara9 at aol.com (shahara9 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:18:57 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Git along, y'all Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4003 Also, (as a naive American) is it a hard 'G' or a soft 'G'? ~shahara in WI Shahara LeFay Pagan Priestess Vegetarian Homeschooler Radical Momma of 5 TerraSoLuna--Tribe LeFay From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:12:55 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:12:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: * Lycanthra References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <016e01c0394a$46d98ec0$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EE2067.76C70484@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4004 Jinx wrote: > Also having Lupin as a woman may well have made a > more dramatic impact when the werewolf identity was revealed. I had a thought on Lupin being a man. Besides Dumbledore, isn't he the first adult male that Harry begins to trust and love? [Hagrid, yes, but he's not your standard-issue adult male anything, and I think he's in a separate category.] And Dumbledore isn't really accessible to Harry or any sort of frequent contact. So Lupin's character paves the way for Harry to be able to accept and build a relationship with Sirius. Any thoughts? --Amanda From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 22:25:29 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:25:29 -0000 Subject: Editions/Printing; Train Bookends In-Reply-To: <39EE0007.473585D0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sl80p+auk5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4005 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Yes, that's the right page. There's no string of numbers anywhere on > that page? Is there an ISBN number on that page? Then some categories > for card catalogues or something? Then, there's no string of numbers > followed by "Printed in the U.S.A. ___" & the next line down "First > American edition, [date]"??? > > That would be odd. Hmmmmm . . . . I have no thoughts why that might be. > > Penny Okay, well, I don't have that info, ~plus~ it's not in ~any~ of my books. They're all hard-cover, here's all the info on that page: Text copyright c 1999 by J.K. Rowling Illustrations copyright c 1999 by Mary Grand Pre All rights reserved. Published by Scholastic Press, a division of Scholastic Inc., Publishers since 1920 SCHOLASTIC, SCHOLASTIC PRESS, ARTHUR A. LEVINE BOOKS, and associated logos are trademarks and/or registered trademarks of Scholastic Inc. No part of this publication may be reproduced, or stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording, or otherwise, without written permission of the publisher. For information regarding permission, write to Scholastic Inc., Attention: Permissions Department, 555 Broadway, New York, NY 10012. ISBN 0-439-06486-4 Printed in the U.S.A. That's it, absolutely nothing else. SS has the dedication on this page, and of course, the years and ISBN numbers vary. But, the info in each book is the same. I have no idea why this is, but I don't know anything about publishing. I'm sure there's some reason, and I suppose since it's not there my book isn't worth anything, except to me, but it's weird that I wouldn't be able to tell what print number it is. Kelley From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:26:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:26:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Git along, y'all References: Message-ID: <39EE239C.92A0818B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4006 shahara9 at aol.com wrote: > Also, (as a naive American) is it a hard 'G' or a soft 'G'? I've been mentally using a hard G---O ye of audiotapes, bestow thy knowledge... > Vegetarian Homeschooler I had this immediate mental image of a bunch of Veggie-Tale-ish veggies sitting around your table reading.... > Radical Momma of 5 I've got 3. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:21:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:21:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) References: <8sl6n4+v4oi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE224C.3BE060EA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4007 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > I suspect that the wizarding world would replace Jewish > > people as the group blamed for everything, > If we can take it, they can take it. > Shalom, Pippin What an un-Christian attitude! --Amanda, sorry, straight lines are my weakness, worse than Oreos or hot fudge, couldn't help it, gets worse every day, mea culpa, sold by weight not volume, humorous content may have settled, somebody slap me, etc., etc. From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:24:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:24:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: call to action References: <20001018221904.8413.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39EE230E.EBE082AB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4008 Christian Stub wrote: > If we wish to pose this as a question, is it perhaps > better to pose it as a general question on the lines > of "What is the situation of GLBT in the Potter > universe?", rather than specifically ask if a > gay/lesbian character will appear in future books. I could go with that. I was concerned about seeming to try to influence her personal vision and world. --Amanda From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Oct 18 22:41:42 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:41:42 -0000 Subject: Sorcerer's Stone Leather Bound Collector's Edition Message-ID: <8sl8v6+t3an@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4009 I received my new book tonight!!!!! As I opened the packaging, I could positively hear an angel choir singing over my shoulders. It really is quite gorgeous with it's gold gilt edges. And the picture she penciled is on the frontispiece. I'm afraid to *breathe* aroung it! voicelady From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Oct 18 22:23:24 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:23:24 +0100 Subject: US special edition Message-ID: <006101c03954$0c77fc80$97977ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4010 Paul wrote: >I just returned from My-Favorite-Bookstore-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named. They finally received the $75 green, leather-bound, embossed, gold- leafed editions of SS. This edition has an original picture of Harry drawn by JKR. I'm guessing that the illustrations of Harry in the regular US editions were based on (or influenced by) this picture. JKR's Harry looks very similar to Mary Grandpre's. I would have thought so... but it may not be the case. When Scholastic brought the US rights, who knows what they were given... especially considering that the UK editons do not have chapter pictures. However, I do expect they must have been given something, to aid the person (in this case Mary Grandpre) to do the cover artwork. >The price is a bit of an issue for me. I'd be willing to plunk down $40 on this book. But not $75 ($60 over Internet). $75 is a bit high. I do hope you didn't pay that for it. Even $60 is a bit high... I presume you got that price from a certain online bookstore that has yet to announce a profit. I have brought this book, for $47.25 See... this is from my receipt: 043920352X HARRY POTTER AND THE SORCERER 47.25 The ISBN is correct! This is a members price... but even the non-members price is only $52 - so still a saving. I am in the UK, and therefore I had the extra cost of international shipping $12.95... but even so, it was still cheaper than getting it from that previously mentioned online bookshop - or from a regular bookstore when I visit the US in November. It pays to shop around a bit for these things. I'm even beginning to see other stores selling the WB licensed stuff, like that sold at WBSTORE.COM. Might start doing a price compare on those, as I for one would like to find the best deal on getting those things. Nick PS... www.broomsticks.org - the link is on the page that comes up, please click it to help me pay for my international shipping! From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 18 22:51:35 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:51:35 -0000 Subject: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) In-Reply-To: <39EE224C.3BE060EA@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sl9hn+jash@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4011 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > > > I suspect that the wizarding world would replace Jewish > > > people as the group blamed for everything, > > > If we can take it, they can take it. > > Shalom, Pippin > > What an un-Christian attitude! > > --Amanda, sorry, straight lines are my weakness, worse than Oreos or hot > fudge, couldn't help it, gets worse every day, mea culpa, sold by weight not > volume, humorous content may have settled, somebody slap me, etc., etc. ROTFL Amanda Pippin (helpless tears of mirth running down her face) From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 18 22:52:50 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:52:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: call to action References: Message-ID: <39EE29C1.23D7028E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4012 Snuffles Macgoo wrote: > lots of love, lots of married hetro ppl (not that there is anything wrong > with that) can't we have a couple of spinsters living together?, something > understated but a possiblity would be *nice*. Well, that's kind of what I mean when I said that gay characters might not show up unless explicitly identified. She integrates her other minorities so well and so non-heralded, this is probably how she'd do it. But if it's open to interpretation, would it satisfy the call for role model? To amplify, one of my mom's best friends all through high school was Aunt Cheink--part of her "Singing Hicks" group (all of whom were "Aunts"), etc., and Aunt Cheink lived with a lady named Ann or something, and all the times we visited I never even thought about it and no mention was made. Aunt Cheink meant swimming and those neat frozen pops you squeeze out of the wrapper and singing. I didn't even know (or frankly, think much about it) until another of Mom's old friends came to help when my babies were born (Mom having passed on) and made a reference to Cheink's being a lesbian. So I posit the question, to those who had no role models and knew themselves different, in this situation would you have known? Or asked? Or been generally quicker on the uptake? And would a pair of spinsters or wizards quietly living together in a subsequent book be what you'd like to see? --Amanda From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Oct 18 22:58:15 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:58:15 -0000 Subject: How do you submit chat questions? In-Reply-To: <8sjl55+5qp5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sl9u7+bqpc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4013 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Blaise " wrote: > Can someone give me some idiot-proof, classicist-proof explanations > for how I should submit questions to the chats: at what time, on what > day, to what email address, in what format? I'd love to play a part > in this but have no idea how to go about it. > > Thanks, > > Blaise. Hi Blaise-- If you go to B&N's homepage and scroll down a little, under Special Features you'll see Chats and Events. If you click on it, you'll see more info, one link being Auditorum. On Friday, you can go here, click on Auditorum, and it should take you right to the chat. There'll be the smaller box where you type in your questions, and the bigger box showing you the chat. I don't know what time the chat is for you, but on the day it will happen, you should be able to submit questions beforehand. I don't think there's anything else you might need to know... Kelley From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 00:01:23 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:01:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: * Lupin References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <016e01c0394a$46d98ec0$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <018401c0395f$ba16b2e0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4014 I think that the reason I like Lupin so well when I first saw him is that he chased Malfoy and company away on the train! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jinx To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 4:15 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: * Lycanthra ----- Original Message ----- From: Rita Winston To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:02 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] ?4JKR(robes) * Crookshanks * Galleons2$ * 150 years * Lycanthra > *** Lupe de los Lobos? Lycia Ulf? I want Lupin's mother to be named > Ida. It would work for the Marauders' friendship relationship if the > Lupin character were a female friend with lycanthropy, but it > wouldn't work for PoA's social agenda, formerly known as the moral > of the story, which is that the kindest, most gentle, best teacher is > the one who is hounded out of the school for being a dangerous > werewolf: an anti-sterotyping, anti-bigotry message. But our cultural > stereotype that expects women to be kind and gentle (to children, > anyway) means that the kind, gentle woman teacher, fitting the > readers' habitual expectation, would not be noticed and therefore the > moral would not be noticed. Not necessarily. I don't think it's Lupin being kind and gentle that necessarily marks him out, it's that he's the first decent DADA teacher they've had, esp. compared to Lockhart in the previous book. Also, he knows how to repel a Dementor, which is a vital thing, and is what cements the friendship between him and Harry and gets him noticed (his first scene involves him getting rid of the dementor on the train, then there's the anti-Dementor lessons). Also having Lupin as a woman may well have made a more dramatic impact when the werewolf identity was revealed. > If you want to do some gender-bending, imagine if the Sirius Black > character were Scylla Black! My mind just flipped. Anyway, that makes her sound like a British TV presenter and 60's child star. Jinx eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Oct 18 23:16:22 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:16:22 -0000 Subject: Git along, y'all In-Reply-To: <39EE239C.92A0818B@texas.net> Message-ID: <8slb06+i6g4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4015 Y'all clearly need to be watching more Monty Python. -Tex > > Also, (as a naive American) is it a hard 'G' or a soft 'G'? From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 00:21:26 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:21:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: How do you submit chat questions?Wasn't there a chat today? References: <8sl9u7+bqpc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01bc01c03962$85a47620$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4016 Did anyone get the transcript of the chat today??? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelley To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 5:58 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: How do you submit chat questions? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Blaise " wrote: > Can someone give me some idiot-proof, classicist-proof explanations > for how I should submit questions to the chats: at what time, on what > day, to what email address, in what format? I'd love to play a part > in this but have no idea how to go about it. > > Thanks, > > Blaise. Hi Blaise-- If you go to B&N's homepage and scroll down a little, under Special Features you'll see Chats and Events. If you click on it, you'll see more info, one link being Auditorum. On Friday, you can go here, click on Auditorum, and it should take you right to the chat. There'll be the smaller box where you type in your questions, and the bigger box showing you the chat. I don't know what time the chat is for you, but on the day it will happen, you should be able to submit questions beforehand. I don't think there's anything else you might need to know... Kelley eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mmarth at peoplepc.com Wed Oct 18 23:27:31 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:27:31 -0000 Subject: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) In-Reply-To: <39EE224C.3BE060EA@texas.net> Message-ID: <8slbl3+jv8k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4017 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > > > > --Amanda, sorry, straight lines are my weakness, worse than Oreos or hot > fudge, couldn't help it, gets worse every day, mea culpa, sold by weight not > volume, humorous content may have settled, somebody slap me, etc., etc. You know, Amanda, Oreos and Coke or Fudge (#1) and coke make a great breakfast! I think this was the only interesting thing I read on the board today. Or maybe it is because I really need a soft drink so guess I will drive to the store down the street and get it. Now that is addiction! Texas you say? What a great state! Martha From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 18 23:35:23 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:35:23 -0500 Subject: Editions; Collectors Ed; WSJ Article; JKR Questions, Gay Issue Message-ID: <39EE33BB.FF7FACBD@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4018 Hi -- Kelley -- you didn't by chance acquire your HP books through Book-of-the-Month Club, did you? That occurs to me as one possibility why you might not have printing info on your books (I think BOMC books are separately printed somehow). Voicelady -- is this the book you received (and is it the clothbound edition you were talking about earlier)? If so, I asked for this for my upcoming birthday. :--) Black leather-bound book that runs $60 from bn.com?? http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?userid=2KXTMDQPND&mscssid=MA5SP0REEEAS9NE30SP2RJHHX43JAWXC&isbn=043920352X Thanks to Smitster for providing us with the Journal article earlier today -- now I have to chastise my husband for not bringing it home to me (must mean he didn't read *all* of WSJ yesterday, eh?). I am going to add some of the recent question thoughts to my Word document & repost it. Ellie had some good suggestions. GAY ISSUE -- In general, I liked Neil's thoughts on this issue. I like the notion that perhaps we will learn about gay characters & their place in the wizarding world through Hermione's developing social conscience as Neil suggested. I'm not adverse at all to their being a positive gay role model in the series, but like Neil, I don't necessarily forsee that she will go that route. However, I don't necessarily think it's because she's one to shy away from controversial or sensitive subjects or because the books are "aimed" at young readers. I think I just don't see that she can effectively make any of the major on-screen characters gay all that easily at this point. Harry, Ron & Hermione have all exhibited heterosexual preferences at this point for example. Carole will slap me, but you know, *maybe* Sirius is gay. *Maybe* Lupin or George Weasley or some of the other "second-tier" characters will turn out to be gay. But, the three major characters are not. The stories are told from Harry's POV, and he's heterosexual from what we know at this stage. So, it would be hard for her to convey a gay character's feelings, struggles, etc. (IMO!). I think it could perhaps be most effectively handled & conveyed in Rowling's unique indirect style (we all get her views on racism for example but she doesn't beat us over the head with it). As far as *asking* Rowling about this issue, I did include it in my Word doc in case someone is using that series of questions as a "go-by" & wants to include that question in their list. Others who want to omit it can do so. Did we ever settle if it makes sense for me to submit them all or if I should rely on some of you to submit some of them? If you're planning to be at the Chat & will submit 5 or more questions from the group, just let me know. Penny From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Oct 18 23:49:03 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:49:03 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnic minority students Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001018234903.008dfa34@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4019 At 20:52 10/18/2000 +0100, Jinx wrote: >I believe someone (Ebony?) mentioned why we're not getting worked up about >the lack of ethnic minorities in there. Truth is, the UK is 90% white, so >all in all, you wouldn't expect there to be that many non-whites around. In fact about 6% of the UK population is from non-white ethnic minorities, according to the 1991 census, and if we are to believe JKR's figure of a 1,000 students, there would be about 60 students from this sector at Hogwarts. I'd say that's quite a few. There are quite a few students and teachers who have not been described in that much detail, but if we're getting into demographics, I would have expected mention of more Asian students (who are easily identified by their names) than the Patil twins. In essence, this is more evidence for the '1,000 students is impossible' camp, but let's not get into that... Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 00:00:10 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:00:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Git along, y'all References: <8slb06+i6g4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE398A.149342EC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4020 Jim Flanagan wrote: > Y'all clearly need to be watching more Monty Python. Get real, I have a five-year-old and know how fast she absorbs stuff..... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 00:08:56 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:08:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) References: <8slbl3+jv8k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE3B97.60D86039@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4021 mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > You know, Amanda, Oreos and Coke or Fudge (#1) and coke make a great > breakfast! I think this was the only interesting thing I read on the > board today. Well, I'm flattered. > Texas you say? What a great state! Hmmm. Hot. No trees to speak of. Hot. Stickers. Hot. Bull nettles. Hot. Fire ants. Hot. Killer bees. Hot. 5,673 species of wasps and related unpleasant stinging things, 5,672 of which nest on my house. Hot. Scorpions. Hot. In the house. Hot. Brown recluse spiders. Hot. Also in the house. Hot. Black widows. Hot. Thankfully, outside. Hot. Whitetail deer eating anything I plant, so I gave up and piled bags of Purina Deer Chow attractively in decorative terra-cotta planters. Hot. Gophers eating what the deer miss. Hot. Leafcutter ants taking the rest. Oh, and did I mention it's too hot? Yeah, *love* it here, anyone want to make an offer on the house? --Amanda, native so I'm entitled to gripe, it's not like I moved here by choice or anything.... : ) ..seen snow three times! I'm about due, it's usually once a decade or so.... From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 19 00:13:24 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:13:24 -0000 Subject: Git along, y'all In-Reply-To: <39EE398A.149342EC@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sleb4+9j2l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4022 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Jim Flanagan wrote: > > > Y'all clearly need to be watching more Monty Python. > > Get real, I have a five-year-old and know how fast she absorbs stuff..... > > --Amanda It's pronounced like the "git" in "git along lil' doggie". At least that's how Geraldine on "Vicar of Dibley" pronounces it. :-) Milz (an American who watches more British tv shows than she ought to...) From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 00:12:12 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:12:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Git along, y'all References: <8sleb4+9j2l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE3C5C.32223EEE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4023 milz wrote: > It's pronounced like the "git" in "git along lil' doggie". At least > that's how Geraldine on "Vicar of Dibley" pronounces it. Thanks, I *wondered* when everyone'd get tired of laughing at my ignorance and actually *answer* the question....and y'all gripe about JKR.... Luv, Amanda By the way, it's "dogie" not "doggie." Refers to an orphaned calf. You city folk. From Ellimist15 at aol.com Thu Oct 19 00:17:22 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:17:22 EDT Subject: Git along, y'all Message-ID: <8.bac19eb.271f9793@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4024 Judging from everything I learned from watching "Red Dwarf" (a British sci-fi comedy), it's pronounced with a hard g. >From english2american.com: Git n. Tricky one to define. What it doesn't mean is what The Waltons meant when they said it (as in "git outta here, John-Boy"). Git is technically an insult but has a twinge of jealousy to it. You'd call someone a git if they'd won the Readers' Digest Prize Draw, outsmarted you in a battle of wits or been named in Bill Gates' Last Will and Testament because of a spelling mistake. Like sod, it has a friendly tone to it. I'm told it derives from Arabic, where it describes a pregnant female camel, of all things. I'm also told that it is a contraction of the word "illegitimate" - you be the judge. Ellie, also a native Texan > What exactly is the technical definition of "git" > This is not a Standard Texan > Form of Speech, you understand... > > --Amanda From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 19 00:19:33 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:19:33 -0000 Subject: ethnic minority students In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001018234903.008dfa34@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8sleml+nfv0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4025 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > At 20:52 10/18/2000 +0100, Jinx wrote: > > >I believe someone (Ebony?) mentioned why we're not getting worked up about > >the lack of ethnic minorities in there. Truth is, the UK is 90% white, so > >all in all, you wouldn't expect there to be that many non-whites around. > > In fact about 6% of the UK population is from non-white ethnic minorities, > according to the 1991 census, and if we are to believe JKR's figure of a > 1,000 students, there would be about 60 students from this sector at > Hogwarts. I'd say that's quite a few. There are quite a few students and > teachers who have not been described in that much detail, but if we're > getting into demographics, I would have expected mention of more Asian > students (who are easily identified by their names) than the Patil twins. > > In essence, this is more evidence for the '1,000 students is impossible' > camp, but let's not get into that... > > Neil Dean Thomas and Angelina are both identified as "black" in the American versions. Lee Jordan is described as having dreadlocks (but there are some caucasian kids with dreads). But Neil is correct, other students and teachers haven't been physically described. In a way, I like that. So then I can imagine how these scantily described characters look. :-) Milz From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Oct 19 00:23:37 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:23:37 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] COS Ancester In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sleu9+546k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4026 For what it's worth, Harry Potter et la Chambre des Secrets, Folio Junior (pb), ISBN 2-07-052455-8 says: ...c'est parce que Lord Voldemort, qui est le dernier descendant de Salazar Serpentard, le parlait ?galement. - Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > Hey, I just checked, and MY hardback CoS says ancestor! I can't believe I've never caught that - even with all of our discussions! (Now here's where I look reeeeeeally dumb): how do I tell which printing it is? > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Nick wrote: > CoS US Hardback > ISBN: 0439064864 > 24th Printing (but signed by author) > Page 332 - Chap.18 Dobby's Reward > because Lord Voldemort - who is the last remaining ancestor of Salazar Slytherin - can speak Parseltongue. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 19 00:26:31 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 18 Oct 2000 17:26:31 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Editions; Collectors Ed; WSJ Article; JKR Questions, Gay Issue Message-ID: <20001019002631.970.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4027 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 19 00:26:59 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:26:59 -0500 Subject: More WWII Parallels Message-ID: <39EE3FD3.ED496C8F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4028 Hi -- While I'm thinking about it, we should note that in the Scholastic interview on Monday, JKR says that Voldemort has plans for affecting the entire world but wants to achieve European domination first. Sound like anyone? The original question was whether Voldemort & the Death Eaters affect the wizarding community in the U.S. More & more parallels with WWII (I love it!) - Penny (who is feeling very British, having prepared Shepherd's Pie for dinner) From lj2d30 at gateway.net Thu Oct 19 00:35:41 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:35:41 -0000 Subject: JKR on Rosie? In-Reply-To: <8skgao+5ohl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8slfkt+np33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4029 I tape the show so I saw it today. Basically, not a lot of new info. Rosie talked about her desire to be Molly Weasley and the fact she got shot down by Chris Columbus since they were going for an all British cast. Rosie even did her ghastly Brit accent; JKR hid her cringe gallantly, I thought. One point of interest, though, Molly's signature on the invite to the Quidditch World Cup is Rosie's. Talked about Cedric (not by name in case someone hasn't read GoF yet) and the death, phemonema of spurring on an entire generation to read, casting of the movie... (Robin Williams also got shot down when he volunteered his services. Perhaps there's hope after all) Trina From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 19 00:42:35 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:42:35 -0000 Subject: JKR on Rosie? In-Reply-To: <8slfkt+np33@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8slg1r+j6fr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4030 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > I tape the show so I saw it today. Basically, not a lot of new > info. Rosie talked about her desire to be Molly Weasley and the fact > she got shot down by Chris Columbus since they were going for an all > British cast. Rosie even did her ghastly Brit accent; JKR hid her > cringe gallantly, I thought. One point of interest, though, Molly's > signature on the invite to the Quidditch World Cup is Rosie's. > Talked about Cedric (not by name in case someone hasn't read GoF yet) > and the death, phemonema of spurring on an entire generation to read, > casting of the movie... (Robin Williams also got shot down when he > volunteered his services. Perhaps there's hope after all) > > Trina That was on today?!?? I thought it was scheduled for friday? Oh well...As long as nothing new was revealed. I guess the positive side is that I missed Rosie's awful "British" accent. I heard it before and she sounded like a Valley Girl with a stuffy nose. I'm happy the movie is an All-Brit cast. I had a hard enough time dealing with Rosie as Betty Rubble. I wonder which character Robin Williams wanted to play. (I hope he didn't want to play Dumbledore!) :-) Milz From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 19 00:43:51 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 18 Oct 2000 17:43:51 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR on Rosie? Message-ID: <20001019004351.1234.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4031 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Oct 19 01:09:46 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:09:46 -0000 Subject: Editions; Collectors Ed; WSJ Article; JKR Questions, Gay Issue In-Reply-To: <39EE33BB.FF7FACBD@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8slhkq+ckon@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4032 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Kelley -- you didn't by chance acquire your HP books through > Book-of-the-Month Club, did you? That occurs to me as one possibility > why you might not have printing info on your books (I think BOMC books > are separately printed somehow). > Penny Oh, Penny, thank you! That is exactly what I did, and it did not occur to me that that may be why. I ended up getting them all from Doubleday. I'm glad you figured it out, it was ~really~ bugging me. Oh, and since I'm talking to you ;o], I plan to be in Friday's chat, I can ask any questions you want me to. It's at 1:00 in the afternoon, our time, right? (I'm in San Antonio.) Just let me know. I have some written down, I'll go check the file for others. And, someone asked about the chat from today; ~what~ chat from today? How did I miss it? I -did- miss JKR on Rosie, aarrrgh! I just completely forgot about it. (Don't worry, I'm beating myself up.) Did anybody catch it? Kelley From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 19 01:31:03 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:31:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the gay question (longish) References: <8sk6rb+d98o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE4ED7.7B1654CC@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4033 Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > < orientation of some characters, without the need for tokenism (hey, > another -ism!).>> > > Susan replied: > > necessarily be tokenism.> > > [Although I'm responding to Susan's points, I've expanded on this > topic a bit, with apologies to those who've already discussed it to > death]. > > Bearing in mind the number of younger readers these books have, is it > feasible that JKR will write in several gay characters? Look, this may be painfully obvious, but I'm going to point it out anyway. JK Rowling says that the way she works is that she writes for the books for herself. Ergo, she will put in gay characters if she wants to do so. If she doesn't she won't. Given that this is her modus operandi (and that it works so well), I am personally rather uncomfortable with trying to dictate to her what she should want to write about. Peg Kerr Who once wrote a book retelling a Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale using gay characters, simply because she wanted to. http://www.tc.umn.edu/nlhome/m391/d-lena/PegKerrBibliog.html From mmarth at peoplepc.com Thu Oct 19 01:44:14 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:44:14 -0000 Subject: Amanda/TX/HP Message-ID: <8sljle+vp1r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4034 Amanda, I was just thinking (which can be dangerous sometimes) that maybe JKR came to Texas before she wrote HP. I mean, my long brown hair gets bushy just like Hermione's in this humid weather. Just about every kind of snake lives here (Slytherin). Maybe she did pick up "git" from a rodeo or something! Of course, I have yet to read in the book about them eating chili or bar-b-que. Hot = Air Conditioners (everywhere). Deer = Deer Sausage. Lizards = Get lots of cats. Ants = Haven't found anything that really works for long. Gorgeous Trees = That would be pine, right? Snow = What??? Angus Beef = Steak. 60 - 65 degress = Time to light the fireplace. I am just a transplant but feel I can complain - but I really love it here. Martha And by the way, Snape is my favorite but I have to say I just LOVE Dumbledore (may he please not die), Minerva, Neville (fuzzy slippers and all)Lupin and Black. Hermione is another favorite but I find her intelligence is a little too much sometimes. I mean, making the Polyjuice potion at such a young age. Please.......I couldn't even boil water at that age. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 02:00:40 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:00:40 -0000 Subject: Character Identification and Popularity Message-ID: <8slkk8+e701@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4035 Well I've been lurking a bit lately, haven't I? You WILL get the character analaysis but not today... I just HAD to comment on the character that I most identify with most and why. It is Hermione. Well, firstly I'm male and so while I think that Hermione is a fairly strong female character I don't think it is her strongest point. She, like Harry, or Ron or anyone is multi layered and gender is not really the biggest factor in the story. Secondly, I may not be as smart as Hermione but I can identify with her in that smarts are her best field...I mean she isn't and all star Quidditch player. She isn't the most popular. She is a "workaholic" and I think I'm like that it's what I'm best at. Not to say I'm an utter failure at sport; but not as good as at my books. I imagine too that Hermione puts her studies first because she is GOOD at them and it covers up her underlying insecurities of not fitting in with the wizard world...(IMHO of course...) As for popularity- Do you picture H,Hr, and R as being the most popular in their class...which cliques DO the popular people belong to? Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 02:23:38 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:23:38 -0000 Subject: Voldemorts Passion Message-ID: <8sllva+u7av@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4036 Ok, I came up with a comepletely wild theory today. Possibly, Voldemort was in love with Lily. Prehaps not in "love" as he isn't capable of loving in that sense but maybe more of an erotic passion... Voldemort: Stand aside you foolish girl Lily: I won't V: I'll give you one last chance, come away with me, we can rule the world together L: I would never go with you V: Then I will kill Harry. I would save him but- L: Save him? No you would never, you may kill me but you'll NEVER get Harry (Spits in Face) * * * * errr, please keep in mind the above was Hastily constructed. But it DOES make sense doesn't it? Voldemort says that he will save Harry if Lily will go away with him. But Lily would sooner die that submit to V... I'm SURE there are glaring problems with this but I really haven't thought it through very well... Scott From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 02:22:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:22:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnic minority students References: <8sleml+nfv0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE5AE3.31AE4EA1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4037 milz wrote: > Dean Thomas and Angelina are both identified as "black" in the > American versions. Where's it say Dean's black? I missed that. And me so detail-oriented, too. I know a Dean, and he's white, so maybe my preconceived notion edited the reference, eh? Hey, Steve, you want to put in the Lexicon the ethnicity of the characters, where known? And I include other races, too, for Hagrid. --Amanda From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 02:28:31 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:28:31 -0000 Subject: Questions for Jo Rowling Message-ID: <8slm8f+2rer@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4038 I will submit them to BN to, and I thought of another Do wizards need to replace their wands during a lifetime, (i.e. Ollivander makes a reference to Lily's first wand.) How long does a wand last and would a wizard like Dumbledore have his original wand? I also had some others that I can't recall right now. Alas, where hath may memory gone? Scott From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 02:25:35 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:25:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR on Rosie? References: <8slg1r+j6fr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE5B9F.845CF0C1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4039 milz wrote: > That was on today?!?? I thought it was scheduled for friday? Oh > well...As long as nothing new was revealed. She wasn't on very long. > I guess the positive side is that I missed Rosie's awful "British" > accent. I heard it before and she sounded like a Valley Girl with a > stuffy nose. JKR told her she wasn't doing a London accent, she was doing Dick van Dyke. Which is pretty funny, really, since he's American. > I'm happy the movie is an All-Brit cast. I had a hard enough time > dealing with Rosie as Betty Rubble. I wonder which character Robin > Williams wanted to play. (I hope he didn't want to play Dumbledore!) I'm amazed they offered to be in it for free. Maybe they'll allow non-speaking cameos or something; those are always fun and if they don't open their mouths they won't spoil it. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 02:37:42 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:37:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemorts Passion References: <8sllva+u7av@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EE5E76.D3D90F58@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4040 Scott wrote: > But Lily would sooner die that submit to V... > > I'm SURE there are glaring problems with this but I really haven't > thought it through very well... Well, the most glaring one, to me, is that Lily probably would deal if it would keep Harry alive. And "charm"ing person that she is, and smart, she'd realize she'd be in a great position to do Voldemort damage, a la Judith. I'd sleep with a lot worse to save my kids. Well, on a good day. Rememer, Harry's not old enough to have an attitude or talk back, yet.... --Amanda From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Oct 19 02:49:00 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:49:00 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ethnic minority students References: <8sleml+nfv0@eGroups.com> <39EE5AE3.31AE4EA1@texas.net> Message-ID: <009701c03977$2372ee40$7443ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4041 > > Where's it say Dean's black? I missed that. And me so detail-oriented, too. > I know a Dean, and he's white, so maybe my preconceived notion edited the > reference, eh? > > Hey, Steve, you want to put in the Lexicon the ethnicity of the characters, > where known? And I include other races, too, for Hagrid. > > --Amanda Sorcerer's Stone Chapter 7 The Sorting Hat: "Now ther were only three people left to be sorted. Thomas, Dean, a Black boy even taller than Ron...." carole who just happens to have SS at her desk.... From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 19 03:11:06 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:11:06 -0000 Subject: aol chat Message-ID: <8slooa+jikv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4042 For all AOLers, it looks as if we can submit questions tonight Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 19 03:19:27 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:19:27 -0000 Subject: the gay question (longish) In-Reply-To: <8sk6rb+d98o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8slp7v+oe9q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4043 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > I said: > > < orientation of some characters, without the need for tokenism (hey, > another -ism!).>> > > Susan replied: > > necessarily be tokenism.> > > [Although I'm responding to Susan's points, I've expanded on this > topic a bit, with apologies to those who've already discussed it to > death]. > > Bearing in mind the number of younger readers these books have, is it > feasible that JKR will write in several gay characters? I have concerns with the idea that portrayal of a gay character is "not appropriate" for younger readers. Like it or > not, the introduction of a gay character would detract from the story > (unless you think JKR might be planning to out Harry in book 7, or > reveal that Dumbledore and Snape are longtime boyfriends). Not only > would the author be treading on eggshells as she tried to deal with a > very sensitive topic, but also every hack journalist and `family > values' crusader would be on her case. Of course, this is not a > *good* reason not to do it, but it is a likely reason she won't > do it. You are putting out your opinion as if it were fact. I do not agree that introduction of a gay character would detract from the story. Clearly, you are arguing for JKR NOT to include gay characters because "every hack journalist and 'family values' crusader would be on her case." You say this is not a good reason not to do it, but likely. I think you underestimate her. Her books are selling like hotcakes; she's making lots of money; she has lots of guts. Obviously you think it's "treading on eggshells" to discuss this very "sensitive topic". For lots of writers and readers, it's no big deal. Some men love men; some women love women; some women love men; some go celibate all their days. This is either the 21st century or about to be (depending on how you count). From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 19 03:22:13 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:22:13 -0000 Subject: the gay question (longish) In-Reply-To: <8sk6rb+d98o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8slpd5+umg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4044 > I think the gay question is a sensitive one, that's all. Yup, I think you do. > > There is a lot of speculation about romance pairings and most of it > is heterosexual, I agree. With the exception of slash fic > discussions (we had one last Sunday in the chat room), there > isn't much talk of Harry/Ron, Harry/Draco, Fred/Hagrid, or > whatever, > I guess because it is perceived as being unlikely that JKR will write > that. I guess because people have the heterosexual assumption. Lesbians/gays, etc. are still not on people's radar -- are invisible. > > Question: Can we expect JKR to create the ideal, egalitarian world we > *don't* have in a series of fictional stories about a school for > witches and wizards, centred on a boy who is barely into his teens > (and seen from his POV)? No, we can't (IMO). These are works of > fiction; the product of imagination. Perhaps she will cover gay > issues as part of the development of Hermione's social > conscience; perhaps she will make the next three books much more > adult in content and bear the brunt of criticism. More likely, I > think, she won't. > Who's talking about the "creation of an ideal, egalitarian world? There are lesbian and gay youth in every high school. This is about the REAL world. Not the world that some people would like to imagine it is. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 19 03:30:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:30:10 -0000 Subject: call to action In-Reply-To: <39EDB42C.BE8055D9@texas.net> Message-ID: <8slps2+eec2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4045 -Susan said-- > > Why would a question -- are you going to include any non- heterosexual > > characters -- imply that she is "required" or "supposed" to do it? > Amanda replies: > Because it implies that the reader considers such inclusion the norm, or > wants it to be, especially if one takes that reader to be a representative > of the general audience. Susan says: Or it implies that the reader consider lesbians and gays to be part of the population and is curious why they are not in the book > > Myself, I think that physical relationships and the physical adult > expressions of love are not part of the scope of these books. uh? We hear about Harry's crush on Cho; Viktor's infatuation with Hermione; the boys' physical response to the Veela...... Why do you assume that including a lesbian/gay character involves "physical relationships" and the "physical adult expressions of love"? when having acknowledged heterosexual couples -- the Dursleys, the Potters, the Lestranges, the Crouches, doesn't? Now, I'm sure people are going to start to tell me to be quiet any moment. There may > already *be* a gay character there (author's profiles of their characters > are often much more detailed than what makes it into print--helps with > authentic characterization). I don't think a gay character would necessarily > "show up" unless he or she stated it in so many words, which is also not > really the sort of thing discussed in these books. Kind of the way there's > no foolin' around in Lord of the Rings. Lots of love, no sex. Not relevant > to the story. Distracting. > > --Amanda Again, why do you assume that "lesbian/gay relationships" would involve sex while heterosexual ones just involve love? There is an absolute double standard here. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 19 03:41:05 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:41:05 -0000 Subject: the gay question (longish) In-Reply-To: <39EE4ED7.7B1654CC@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8slqgh+8oup@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4046 > > Given that this is her modus operandi (and that it works so well), I am > personally rather uncomfortable with trying to dictate to her what she > should want to write about. > > Peg Kerr > Who once wrote a book retelling a Hans Christian Andersen fairy tale using > gay characters, simply because she wanted to. > I thoroughly agree. I started this conversation by ASKING a QUESTION... not by dictating anything to her. All this stuff about "young" kids...is assuming that NO children or youth identify as lesbians or gays or EVEN that NO children or youth have crushes on people of the same gender. People keep talking as if I'm suggesting some kind of strange, foreign, weird topic......that is too sensitive to discuss. But crushes/dates/pairings have already been introduced. By ONLY introducing mixed gender pairings, JKR has made a decision to ONLY write about SOME pairings and NOT about others. I'm interested to know if that will change. Susan From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 03:59:35 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:59:35 -0000 Subject: JKR on Rosie? In-Reply-To: <8slg1r+j6fr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8slrj7+f6r9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4047 How do we know that the signature was actually hers? She kept talking about the role as if she had it. "And this boy plays my son, Ron..." American actors would have overdone the movie. Nonetheless, Robin Williams IS British. He would have made a pretty good ghost. ~Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > > I tape the show so I saw it today. Basically, not a lot of new > > info. Rosie talked about her desire to be Molly Weasley and the > fact > > she got shot down by Chris Columbus since they were going for an > all > > British cast. Rosie even did her ghastly Brit accent; JKR hid her > > cringe gallantly, I thought. One point of interest, though, > Molly's > > > signature on the invite to the Quidditch World Cup is Rosie's. > > Talked about Cedric (not by name in case someone hasn't read GoF > yet) > > and the death, phemonema of spurring on an entire generation to > read, > > casting of the movie... (Robin Williams also got shot down when he > > volunteered his services. Perhaps there's hope after all) > > > > Trina > > That was on today?!?? I thought it was scheduled for friday? Oh > well...As long as nothing new was revealed. > > I guess the positive side is that I missed Rosie's awful "British" > accent. I heard it before and she sounded like a Valley Girl with a > stuffy nose. > > I'm happy the movie is an All-Brit cast. I had a hard enough time > dealing with Rosie as Betty Rubble. I wonder which character Robin > Williams wanted to play. (I hope he didn't want to play Dumbledore!) > > :-) Milz From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 05:18:59 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:18:59 -0500 Subject: Weather patterns by state, completely OT, responding to Amanda's hot! References: <8slbl3+jv8k@eGroups.com> <39EE3B97.60D86039@texas.net> Message-ID: <00a701c0398c$1ec670a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4048 Amanda, did you want snow? Shivers...... Gotta love Ohio. The weather is so wonderful, 32 one day, and 70 the next! I love the changing seasons, but I prefer them to change over a period over time, not within 24 hours. The saying goes, if you don't like the weather in Ohio, wait two hours. It'll change. (I have my air conditioner's fan (not the AC) pulling in air from outside, because it's gone hot again. I wish it'd make up its mind--everyone's sick!) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Changes to the magical community (was Wizardesses (Witches?) and their working habits...) mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > You know, Amanda, Oreos and Coke or Fudge (#1) and coke make a great > breakfast! I think this was the only interesting thing I read on the > board today. Well, I'm flattered. > Texas you say? What a great state! Hmmm. Hot. No trees to speak of. Hot. Stickers. Hot. Bull nettles. Hot. Fire ants. Hot. Killer bees. Hot. 5,673 species of wasps and related unpleasant stinging things, 5,672 of which nest on my house. Hot. Scorpions. Hot. In the house. Hot. Brown recluse spiders. Hot. Also in the house. Hot. Black widows. Hot. Thankfully, outside. Hot. Whitetail deer eating anything I plant, so I gave up and piled bags of Purina Deer Chow attractively in decorative terra-cotta planters. Hot. Gophers eating what the deer miss. Hot. Leafcutter ants taking the rest. Oh, and did I mention it's too hot? Yeah, *love* it here, anyone want to make an offer on the house? --Amanda, native so I'm entitled to gripe, it's not like I moved here by choice or anything.... : ) ..seen snow three times! I'm about due, it's usually once a decade or so.... eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Thu Oct 19 04:29:26 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:29:26 -0000 Subject: price of wands/Possible question to pose to JKR In-Reply-To: <93.1fc7ba8.271f7261@aol.com> Message-ID: <8sltb6+os7m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4049 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, shahara9 at a... wrote: > A friend of mine makes wands...they are of thick copper tubing, decorated > uniquely, and sell on average of $50, some more elaborate ones nearing $80. > I think if it contained horn of unicorn or feather of phoenix, the price > might truly rise! =) > ~shahara in WI > > << > What is the approximate value of a galleon? > > > My personal guess is at around ?10/$15(US). > If a wand costs eight galleons (says it somewhere, I think in PS where Harry > gets his) that makes it worth... EIGHTY POUNDS??? Good lord... Are they > really worth that much?? I mean, I know they're expensive but even so... >> reply: I'm not surprised at all that wands would be expensive in Diagon Alley. Ollivander's the only one selling them! Makes you wonder why the Death Eaters didn't try to take over the ammunition base first/kidnap Ollivander so no one else other than someone from the Dark Side would have access to a wand. Gen From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 19 05:14:43 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:14:43 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the gay question (longish) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001019051443.008cc5a8@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4050 Susan said: >You are putting out your opinion as if it were fact. I do not >agree that introduction of a gay character would detract from the >story. I'm sorry. I should have thrown in a 'IMO' there. If it happens, let's see what happens... >Clearly, you are arguing for JKR NOT to include gay characters >because "every hack journalist and 'family values' crusader would be >on her case." You say this is not a good reason not to do it, but >likely. Crikey. I was not arguing for her NOT to include gay characters, I was suggesting why, IMO, it's not very likely that she will (and I guess I did make the point that I feared tokenism). I'd be extremely interested to know her answer to the question "Do you plan to include any lesbian/gay characters?" or something similar, to see how she responds to it (even if she does say no). >I think you underestimate her. Her books are selling like >hotcakes; she's making lots of money; she has lots of guts. I don't underestimate her at all. She had the guts to write the story she wanted to write from the start and, according to her, it's pretty much the same story she planned out ten years ago when she had no money, before the books became the hotcakes we know and love. If that plan included some gay characters she would have my even greater admiration. But... well, let's just say it wouldn't go unnoticed. >Obviously you think it's "treading on eggshells" to discuss this >very "sensitive topic". So why I am discussing it now? I have no problem discussing gay issues in relation to HP. In the big wide world, however, there are people who like to make a huge fuss about such things. The very fact that these books are so popular and that JKR is now so powerful focuses the attention somewhat and it only takes a few idiots to stir up outrage. What may seem like an acceptable, responsible gay storyline to some, will be the source of endless campaigning for others. I.M.O. >For lots of writers and readers, it's no big >deal. Some men love men; some women love women; some women love men; >some go celibate all their days. This is either the 21st century or >about to be (depending on how you count). Hey, tell me something I don't know! (I'd go with 21st century). Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 19 05:25:29 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:25:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the gay question (longish) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001019052529.008bd404@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4051 I said: >> Question: Can we expect JKR to create the ideal, egalitarian world we >> *don't* have in a series of fictional stories about a school for >> witches and wizards, centred on a boy who is barely into his teens >> (and seen from his POV)? No, we can't (IMO). These are works of >> fiction; the product of imagination. >Who's talking about the "creation of an ideal, egalitarian world? >There are lesbian and gay youth in every high school. This is about >the REAL world. Not the world that some people would like to imagine >it is. Actually, this isn't about the REAL world, this is about a work of fiction. This is about the world JK Rowling would like to imagine it is. Isn't it? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From vderark at bccs.org Thu Oct 19 06:34:59 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:34:59 -0000 Subject: price of wands/Possible question to pose to JKR In-Reply-To: <8sltb6+os7m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sm4mj+q4hh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4052 > > I'm not surprised at all that wands would be expensive in Diagon > Alley. Ollivander's the only one selling them! Makes you wonder why > the Death Eaters didn't try to take over the ammunition base > first/kidnap Ollivander so no one else other than someone from the > Dark Side would have access to a wand. Ollivander isn't the only one making wands. Someone named Gregorovich is also a well-known wand maker (GF18), and there are undoubtedly others as well. Ollivander is probably the most well-known in Britain, however, and probably the only wand seller in Diagon Alley. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From msmacgoo at hotmail.com Thu Oct 19 08:57:18 2000 From: msmacgoo at hotmail.com (storm stanford) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:57:18 +1000 Subject: see you all later .... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4053 Witches and Wizards - I'm losing my home net access so I won't be around. have a great time all of you thinking/talking HP - I'm miss it a lot. storm From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 19 08:24:09 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:24:09 +0100 Subject: Dean Thomas and differences in PS and SS Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4054 >From SS: <<>> >From PS: <<>> This is interesting. A change in the books - where the American version has more detail than the British version. Most of the other changes that I know about seem to be concerned with removing details (cf. Sirius' back vault number in PoA), or making things 'American'. To which I point out the American one is factually wrong. The three people to be sorted are Dean, Lisa, Ron and Blaise Zabini - which by my mathematics gets us to 4 (but who trusts a mathematics undergraduate to be able to count). Simon (who would elaborate further but has to rush off to see if they are filming in Oxford - and then, unfortunately, onto a lecture and a couple of classes) From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Thu Oct 19 10:21:45 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:21:45 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR on Rosie? References: <8slfkt+np33@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000001c039b9$586c4f00$8a5101d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4055 ----- Original Message ----- From: Trina To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 1:35 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR on Rosie? > One point of interest, though, Molly's > signature on the invite to the Quidditch World Cup is Rosie's. Eh? Sorry, my brain is a bit slow due to, ahem, slight overindulgence last night, but I don't get the above - can someone explain and show me exactly how dim I'm being...is this something to do with the US editions of the books, or what? Alix From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Thu Oct 19 10:21:45 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:21:45 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR on Rosie? References: <8slfkt+np33@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007c01c039b9$25e0db00$8a5101d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4056 ----- Original Message ----- From: Trina To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 1:35 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR on Rosie? > One point of interest, though, Molly's > signature on the invite to the Quidditch World Cup is Rosie's. Eh? Sorry, my brain is a bit slow due to, ahem, slight overindulgence last night, but I don't get the above - can someone explain and show me exactly how dim I'm being...is this something to do with the US editions of the books, or what? Alix From s_ings at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 11:25:33 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 04:25:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the gay question (longish) Message-ID: <20001019112533.11726.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4057 > > >Who's talking about the "creation of an ideal, > egalitarian world? > >There are lesbian and gay youth in every high > school. This is about > >the REAL world. Not the world that some people > would like to imagine > >it is. > > Actually, this isn't about the REAL world, this is > about a work of fiction. > This is about the world JK Rowling would like to > imagine it is. Isn't it? > > Neil > Just wanted to add my two cents to this discussion by Neil and Susan. I agree with the statement that this is not the real world and add that we shouldn't expect JKR's fictional to be exactly the way we picture it - this is her creation. My second point is that, although there are GLBT (let's not forget the B & T in this one) youth in every high school (my daughter's school included), it is pretty unusual for these teens to come out at the age of 14 or so. There is still a large part of society that provides negative feedback to these teens and having to deal with facing your parents on this issue while dealing all the other teen problems can be fairly daunting. In my experience, most teens don't come out until later in their teens. Okay, I could beat this one to death, but I think I made my point. IMO, it would be somewhat unrealistic to see teens coming out at that age. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 19 12:32:27 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:32:27 -0500 Subject: Hogwarts Halloween party Message-ID: <39EEE9DB.6CE2CD16@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4058 My local paper printed a "Taste" section with recipes for holding a Hogwarts Halloween. You better check this page and print it out today if you're interested; it might not be up after today. http://startribune.com/taste/ From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 19 13:18:41 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:18:41 -0500 Subject: The gay question References: <20001019112533.11726.qmail@web204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39EEF4B1.3F1D1979@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4059 Hi -- Sheryll Townsend wrote: > My second point is that, although there are GLBT (let's not forget the > B & T in this one) youth in every high school (my daughter's school > included), it is pretty unusual for these teens to come out at the > age of 14 or so. There is still a large part of society that provides > negative feedback to these teens and having to deal with facing your > parents on this issue while dealing all the other teen problems can be > > fairly daunting. In my experience, most teens don't come out until > later in their teens. Ah! Not only can I anticipate Susan's response, but I must say I agree with her on this one. The above is *exactly* the reason *why* Susan feels so strongly that JKR should put out a positive gay role model for these kids. A positive gay role model in a popular series like HP would go miles toward making those kids feel less stigmatized & abnormal; they would feel better about themselves and perhaps not make the decision to remain "in the closet" (or whatever phrase you happen to use). I do very much agree with Susan on this point. I also meant to say in my missive on this subject yesterday that I also agree that JKR has the "bully pulpit" so to speak -- she could really influence several generations of readers if she chooses. She has said in seveal interviews that she cannot abide intolerance in any form, and you can see that she is addressing that in her own way in the HP books. I personally think there's no real harm in asking her whether any of the characters will be portrayed as gay, as a positive role model for gay young adults. It's possible she hasn't really considered that angle & might be influenced by the question. It's also possible that, as Neil said, she hasn't really planned to include that particular issue in the books and won't deviate to do so. I agree with Neil that HP is *her* fictional world (& not necessarily an accurate reflection of the real world), *but* she is addressing social issues within the context of that fictional world. So, it doesn't seem wholly unreasonable to me that she might choose to address this particular social issue. Like I said yesterday though, she can't effectively make Harry, Hermione or Ron gay at this stage, and so any gay character that she might introduce (or reveal as gay) would be necessarily not a "major character" really. That's why I'd rather see her tackle that issue in a broader form -- something along the elf rights crusade or the mudbloods versus purebloods issue. Just my 2 galleons for the day on this "sensitive" topic -- Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 19 13:26:04 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:26:04 -0500 Subject: Chats/Interviews; Talk Shows References: <8slfkt+np33@eGroups.com> <000001c039b9$586c4f00$8a5101d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39EEF66C.5F8E2970@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4060 Hi -- Alix Petty wrote: > Eh? Sorry, my brain is a bit slow due to, ahem, slight overindulgence > last night, but I don't get the above - can someone explain and show > me exactly how dim I'm being...is this something to do with the US > editions of the books, or what? Sorry Alix -- we should all be more clear about which version of the books we're referring to. The UK versions don't have the "signatures" that the US versions have with the letters that are included in the text of the books (you get signatures for Harry, Sirius, Ron, Mrs. Weasley & Hermione in PoA & GoF US versions). Rosie opened up GoF & showed the audience "her" signature on Molly Weasley's letter to the Dursleys -- this was in JKR's presence so I think it's reasonable to assume it to be true. Thanks to whoever posted the summary of the Rosie show. I saw it but hadn't summarized yet (not much to summarize actually). I've been a bit disappointed that none of the US interviewers have given her anything but lame, softball questions. You would think Rosie would have at least one "substantive" question for JKR. Katie Couric didn't act like she'd even read the books & admitted that her daughter had helped her prep for the interview. To summarize again on the schedule of remaining events: AOL Chat -- tonight (Thursday) -- 8:00 p.m. EST Today Show -- tomorrow (Friday) -- not sure on time segment B&N Chat -- tomorrow (Friday) -- 2:00 p.m. EST There was no chat or interview yesterday Dee. Only the Rosie show appearance. So far, I've only heard that Kelley & Carole & I will be at the B&N chat. Does anyone else want to take 5 or more of our questions to submit? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Oct 19 13:30:27 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:30:27 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the gay question (longish) References: <8slqgh+8oup@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004101c039d0$bf19e520$0a6a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4061 > All this stuff about "young" kids...is assuming that NO children > or youth identify as lesbians or gays or EVEN that NO children > or youth have crushes on people of the same gender. People keep > talking as if I'm suggesting some kind of strange, foreign, weird > topic......that is too sensitive to discuss. > > But crushes/dates/pairings have already been introduced. By ONLY > introducing mixed gender pairings, JKR has made a decision to ONLY > write about SOME pairings and NOT about others. I'm interested to > know if that will change. > I guess because people have the heterosexual assumption. > Lesbians/gays, etc. are still not on people's radar -- are invisible. > > Who's talking about the "creation of an ideal, egalitarian world? > There are lesbian and gay youth in every high school. This is about > the REAL world. Not the world that some people would like to imagine > it is. > Yes, but you see Susan, this list is not about the real world. JKR has said many times that she will write the books as she has envisioned the books...not to target, identify, supply role models, or pacify critics, interest groups, or even fans. If she mentions that Justin Finch-Fletchley is gay at one point or other...great, if not fine....its her world not ours. Now if you want to ask if she is going to include an order of gay characters with a side of stronger women role models...have at it. Just because some of us feel that asking that question is irrelevant, does not mean we think the issue is irrelevant. You have made so many assumptions in the above quotes. I am going to speak for myself only so as not to fall into the habit you have in glittering generalizations. First just because I am hetero and make hetero assumptions does not mean that gays and lesbians are invisible in "my world." (ok as cliche'd as this sounds...my best friend is a lesbian....honest to god). What can I say I want Sirius to be hetero so I can pair him up with me.... Also just because I'm hetero does it mean that I don't realize that there are children or youth that identify as lesbians or gays or EVEN that children or youth have crushes on people of the same gender. Of course there are and they do. I really don't think see this as strange, foreign, or weird. If anyone else does I doubt the inclusion of a gay/lesbian character in the books is going to change their mind. Maybe, maybe not. To me its a non-issue in these books.... I think the point is that JKR has created a world in which it is a non - issue and isn't that what we are striving for....that the whole "ism" thing is a non-issue....by this I mean the following: We were introduced to Angelina Johnson a couple of books ago. In GoF it is mentioned for the first time that she is black, I had not realized she was black before that...did it matter to me, I thought in passing...hey thats cool, but was she still the same character...yes...In other words her world is such that there probably are gays and lesbians, but it doesn't seem to matter to the rest of the community. Not because its not there, but because its there, accepted and not used to distiguish one wizard from another. Jeez this got long...I meant it to be short and to the point, oh well.... carole From magicalhp at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 13:49:21 2000 From: magicalhp at yahoo.com (magicalhp at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:49:21 -0000 Subject: JKR on Rosie? In-Reply-To: <20001019004351.1234.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <8smu51+lhg6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4062 Hey all, I've been thinking about the Verne Troyer thing too and I tend to think it's a web rumor. I do, however, believe John Cleese is in for Nearly Headless Nick, particularly since JKR is such a big Monty Python fan...I imagine it would give her a big chuckle to see him in the movie. I missed JKR on Rosie too and am wondering if JKR confirmed that Molly's signature on the invite to the Quidditch World Cup is Rosie's or if that's something Rosie said before JKR came on? Also, and this is pure speculation and wishful thinking on my part the possibility exists that while she's in NY, JKR may be taping more shows of some sort for air at a later date...maybe closer to Halloween. (Hopefully. ) Cheers, Rachel www.magicalharrypotter.com --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Wed, 18 October 2000, "Trina " wrote: > > > I tape the show so I saw it today. Basically, not a lot of new info. Rosie talked about her desire to be Molly Weasley and the fact she got shot down by Chris Columbus since they were going for an all British cast. > > So why the heck would they cast Verne Troyer? He's not British. Or are poltergeists exempt? > > voicelady > > > _____________________________________________________________ > This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark > of CIDCO Incorporated. From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Thu Oct 19 13:49:40 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 19 Oct 2000 13:49:40 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <971963380.79965@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4063 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /QUESTIONS FOR JKR CHATS.htm Uploaded by : pennylin at swbell.net Description : You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/QUESTIONS+FOR+JKR+CHATS%2Ehtm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, pennylin at swbell.net From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 19 13:53:42 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:53:42 -0500 Subject: New Questions for JKR Doc Uploaded Message-ID: <39EEFCE6.6EDE04D3@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4064 Hi -- I added the questions from yesterday (all except the ones that, in my subjective opinion, she is unlikely to answer & so would be a waste of time to submit) and uploaded a new file (it's in HTML this time). Penny From magicalhp at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 13:57:19 2000 From: magicalhp at yahoo.com (magicalhp at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:57:19 -0000 Subject: JKR on Rosie? In-Reply-To: <8smu51+lhg6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8smujv+fg5n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4065 Oops sorry, please disregard the part of this post about Rosie's signature...just spotted the answer in Penny's post above. Thanks. :) Cheers, ~Rachel www.magicalharrypotter.com --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, magicalhp at y... wrote: > > I missed JKR on Rosie too and am wondering if JKR confirmed that > Molly's signature on the invite to the Quidditch World Cup is Rosie's > or if that's something Rosie said before JKR came on? > From rhodhry at yahoo.no Thu Oct 19 14:20:16 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:20:16 +0200 (CEST) Subject: The galleon-question Message-ID: <20001019142016.17643.qmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4066 On the file posted, I noted that 8 was set to be equal to $5, indicating an exchange rate of ca. 1.5GBP/USD (GBP=British Pound Sterling, USD = US$). I thought the actual exchange rate was reverse - 1.5USD/GBP? The universal currency-converter at http://www.xe.net/ucc/ set it around 1.45USD/GBP. This would mean 5USD=3.45GBP and 8GBP=11.6USD, while 25USD=14.2GBP and 40GBP=58USD (with regard to the sums mentioned in the file posted. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Oct 19 14:17:30 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:17:30 -0000 Subject: Dean Thomas and differences in PS and SS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8smvpq+rolq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4067 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > From SS: << Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, joined Harry at the Gryffindor > table. "Turpin, Lisa," became a Ravenclaw and then it was Ron's turn. He was > pale green by now. Harry crossed his fingers under the table and a second > later the hat had shouted, "GRYFFINDOR!">>> > > From PS: << Lisa," became a Ravenclaw and then it was Ron's turn. He was pale green by > now. Harry crossed his fingers under the table and a second later the hat > had shouted, "GRYFFINDOR!">>> > > This is interesting. A change in the books - where the American version has > more detail than the British version. > Most of the other changes that I know about seem to be concerned with > removing details (cf. Sirius' back vault number in PoA), or making things > 'American'. > > To which I point out the American one is factually wrong. The three people > to be sorted are Dean, Lisa, Ron and Blaise Zabini - which by my mathematics > gets us to 4 (but who trusts a mathematics undergraduate to be able to > count). > > > Simon (who would elaborate further but has to rush off to see if they are > filming in Oxford - and then, unfortunately, onto a lecture and a couple of > classes) Blaise Zambini is mentioned in SS as the final student to be sorted. :-) Milz From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 14:29:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:29:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dean Thomas and differences in PS and SS References: Message-ID: <39EF0553.DE5F6A43@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4068 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > >From SS: << Dean," a Black boy even taller than Ron, A question from the Editor, who loves watching usages change---do you guys think it's correct to capitalize Black here, or was it a bit of a jar? "White" as a racial adjective isn't usually capitalized (I don't think, off the top of my head). "Indian" usually is, but that's because it's taken from the proper noun India, the same way India ink is always capitalized. I've seen hispanic go both ways, usually Latino/Latina is capitalized; Mexican is capitalized because it's a nationality. Sorry, running on, just curious about the grass-roots response. --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 16:31:20 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:31:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogwarts Halloween party References: <39EEE9DB.6CE2CD16@ibm.net> Message-ID: <019601c039ea$03b68e40$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4069 Thanks Peg! I will with your permission, reprint this in Cakes And Ales, too? (A yahoo club for recipes for witches!) ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:32 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogwarts Halloween party My local paper printed a "Taste" section with recipes for holding a Hogwarts Halloween. You better check this page and print it out today if you're interested; it might not be up after today. http://startribune.com/taste/ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 15:45:18 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:45:18 -0500 Subject: More gay discussion, lots, and I'll stop now References: <8slps2+eec2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EF170D.C5C6C2E0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4070 Susan McGee wrote: > Or it implies that the reader consider lesbians and gays to > be part of the population and is curious why they are not in the book And as I pointed out in an earlier post, they may well *be* in there. JKR does not write big neon signs to point out the characteristics of her characters, she just writes the characters. If some aspect of their personality, such as sexual orientation, becomes relevant to the story, it is included; if not, it may not be mentioned. > > Myself, I think that physical relationships and the physical adult > > expressions of love are not part of the scope of these books. > > uh? We hear about Harry's crush on Cho; Viktor's infatuation with > Hermione; the boys' physical response to the Veela...... These are not adult expressions of physical love; they are adolescent stirrings. So far the most involved actual physical contact with sexual intent which we have seen is people falling out of rosebushes when Snape goes by. Harry's asking Cho to the dance is the closest we've gotten to a love scene. Even the married couples don't do much schmoozing onscreen. It's not relevant to the story, at least not so far. > Why do you assume that including a lesbian/gay character involves > "physical relationships" and the "physical adult expressions of love"? > when having acknowledged heterosexual couples -- the Dursleys, the > Potters, the Lestranges, the Crouches, doesn't? Of course the acknowledged heterosexual characters imply sex offscreen. The children make it a certainty. Whatever it may imply for our cultural awareness, the fact of the matter is that approaching it as a writer she doesn't *need* to put any sort of scene or evidence for heterosexual characters, she can let it be assumed. The problem I've been addressing is how to identify a character as gay both clearly and satisfactorily without a physical relationship being identified or implied. It is a physical preference, and the nuts-and-bolts of physical relationships are not things that have shown up in these books. I'm not anticipating a Harry/Sirius "birds and the bees" scene either. It's just not what the story is dealing with. Simply stating a character's gayness in passing, without showing that character living it, is not what I think the "role model" seekers want. Nor am I sure anything less than total identification as gay would be enough. Nobody answered an earlier question, as to whether a same-sex couple living together, with or without children, would be the "role model" wanted unless it were explicitly identified that they were gay. JKR seems to prefer simply describing her characters and letting us experience them, which is how we meet people, rather than handing us the labels outright. So, how to show us a gay person within the scope of these books, without handing us the label? Stereotypical tags are not what I mean; should two men kiss? Exchange a lingering hug? Hold hands? Etc. And if she doesn't *show* us a gay person, how then to go ahead and hand us the label? It's a physical preference, how detailed do you get? Etc. Either way it really doesn't seem relevant to the story underway, and would distract from it. > Now, I'm sure people are going to start to tell me to be quiet any > moment. No, not so much that you be quiet as that you give me any idea that you understand the points I'm trying to make. > Again, why do you assume that "lesbian/gay relationships" would > involve sex while heterosexual ones just involve love? > There is an absolute double standard here. Where did you get *that*? I don't think the married couples here have taken any sort of vows of celibacy; I don't think the Weasleys live together because Arthur loves Molly's cooking. Sure, they involve sex. But as I said, portrayal of heterosexual characters is easy, since the physical aspects can be assumed without addressing it directly. And certainly gay relationships involve love. Jeez, how else are they relationships? At least in my psyche, love is essential before sex can even be contemplated. But is a deep love between characters of the same sex enough to identify them to readers as "gay"? I don't know that it should be, or would be accurate. Because I love several ladies very, very much and would walk through fire for them--but I don't have the slightest interest in a physical expression of it with them, and am very much heterosexual. The same for my husband--"shield brother" friends. Perhaps we don't have the same definitions of gay or lesbian? I brought up the physical aspects because I considered that a physical component of some sort would have to be included so that the reader would have no doubt that this is, indeed, a gay character. It's that explicit identification that I don't know how to do, relevant to the story. Okay, I'm tired of talking now. --Amanda From skywalker1 at ibm.net Thu Oct 19 17:30:52 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:30:52 -0000 Subject: Mystery At Hogwarts Game In-Reply-To: <20001017125133.24098.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <8snb4c+7kga@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4071 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Mon, 16 October 2000, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Interesting thing though: There are six "character" cards - Harry, Hermione, Ron, Draco, Crabbe and Goyle. They're all such great artwork, except for Draco and Crabbe (or is it Goyle?). Those two cards have just shadow figures on them. Does anyone else have the game, and if so, can you tell me what your cards look like, please? > > voicelady Voicelady, I bought the game a few days ago and my Draco and Crabbe (or Goyle, I can't remember) are black also. It was really disappointing. I'm still trying to find out if they are aware of the error and working to correct. It might be nice if these sets were worth more due to the error. :) Brian From joym999 at aol.com Thu Oct 19 17:32:52 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:32:52 -0000 Subject: JKR on Rosie? In-Reply-To: <8slrj7+f6r9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8snb84+i9qd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4072 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > How do we know that the signature was actually hers? She kept > talking about the role as if she had it. "And this boy plays my son, > Ron..." > American actors would have overdone the movie. Nonetheless, Robin > Williams IS British. He would have made a pretty good ghost. Actually, JKR confirms that the signature is Rosies, and I thought Rosie was pretty obviously trying to be funny when she kept referring to Ron as her son. THe whole JKR appearance was only about 5 minutes long, and I thought Rosie dominated the whole thing by talking about virtually nothing but how she wants to play Molly Weasley -- pretty disappointing interview, on the whole. Oh, and I am pretty sure that Robin Williams is an American. I could be wrong, of course, but there is nothing British about the way he speaks. -- Joywitch From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 19 18:17:18 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:17:18 -0000 Subject: More gay discussion... role models? In-Reply-To: <39EF170D.C5C6C2E0@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sndre+jiij@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4073 Amanda wrote: <<>> I'd say not, because the majority of the people (including some children) who would read them as a gay couple would be attuned to the idea anyway. Those who might learn something may overlook the obvious and assume that they are "just good friends" sharing a house. When it comes to children there is, in addition, the probable lack of exposure to gay people as an additional barrier. The gay issue would have to dealt with openly if it were to reach the right people. If JKR can avoid controversy (which I still doubt), and if it *is* on her agenda, it could provide a very positive role model for children. If it isn't on her agenda, so be it. Neil (and I'm also going to end my ceaseless babbling on this topic... ahem, famous last words!) From laurlaur1013 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 19 03:52:08 2000 From: laurlaur1013 at hotmail.com (L. L. M.) Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:52:08 CDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemorts Passion Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4074 >Scott wrote: > > > But Lily would sooner die that submit to V... > > > > I'm SURE there are glaring problems with this but I really haven't > > thought it through very well... > >Well, the most glaring one, to me, is that Lily probably would deal if it >would keep Harry alive. And "charm"ing person that she is, and smart, she'd >realize she'd be in a great position to do Voldemort damage, a la Judith. >I'd sleep with a lot worse to save my kids. Well, on a good day. Rememer, >Harry's not old enough to have an attitude or talk back, yet.... > >--Amanda > Keep in mind that Voldemort is old enough to be Lily's father (I know this doesn't stop some people...) but that also presents an odd thing...how often do almost-70-year-old men try to take over the world? You'd think he'd be tired of it. I guess since JKR said that wizards live longer than Muggles..ok now I'm thinking outloud! Lynnia _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 19 18:41:00 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:41:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> <39EE0E0B.A5FD38FB@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <000401c039fc$31cc7a80$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4075 ----- Original Message ----- From: heidi To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 9:54 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi > > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Rita Winston wrote: > > > > > *** A long time ago, this list discussed what happens if a female > > > Animagus is pregnant and doesn't switch back to human form before > > > giving birth, and concluded that Crookshanks is McGonagall's love > > > child by a Muggle-type Persian tomcat. > > > > I wonder if a pregnant Animagus *could* transform, since the fetus is its > > own entity, although connected. Wouldn't it remain human? And you can't do > > two spells at once, to Transform the baby, too. > > But there is probably some way to do 2 spells at once - otherwise, witches who > apparate without knowing they were pregnant would leave the fetus behind which > wouldprobably be some sort of a Splinch. Bear in mind that the foetus is still part of the mother's body. It really doesn't have much of a separate identity, at least not in the early stages of pregnancy. I think the spell to Apparate or Transform must work on the whole body, and change/move the foetus with it. Although there's probably medical warnings against heavily pregnant witches doing it. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 19 18:50:40 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:50:40 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups References: <6b.b208d92.271f572e@aol.com> <003901c0393b$3abd1da0$c98fd6ce@oemcomputer> <39EE1D6F.10333540@texas.net> Message-ID: <001301c039fd$7c94a780$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4076 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups > Should we make sure all the character options are set before we vote? > Will adding one wipe out the earlier entries? > > --Amanda Yeah, it will. I've already had to resstart it once. I am also not adding anyone who doesn't really figure enough for anyone to identify with, or anyone who works for Voldemort. (Malfoy's only in there as a tongue in cheek option.) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 19 18:52:46 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:52:46 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] political awareness and Hogsmeade References: <8skt90+slpg@eGroups.com> <39EE1D32.6EEAEC21@texas.net> Message-ID: <001801c039fd$cb49e2a0$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4077 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski > foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > > > I keep wondering when it will occur to Hermione to ask exactly how > > Hogsmeade is maintained as an all-wizarding village. Some form of > > wizard apartheidt? (horrors!) > > I don't think they mean strictly wizard inhabitants. I think they mean > everyone lives and operates in the wizarding world. Muggles can move in that > world, as witnessed by the Muggle students--the problem is *getting* there. Of course, Hogwarts students aren't Muggles, they're full witches/wizards in their own right. So any anti-Muggle restrictions wouldn't apply to them in any case. Jinx From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Oct 19 18:59:17 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:59:17 -0700 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <8slm8f+2rer@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001019011842.021c55a0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4078 What do you think was Lucius Malfoy's true motive in CoS? Was he really trying to create a Voldy "clone", a la _The Boys From Brazil_? Or was the object to frame Ginny and drive Arthur from the Ministry? Or did he just have this sudden urge to sweep all Muggle-borns from the face of the Earth? Does anyone else find it interesting that Voldy seems to have no knowledge (based on his "story" he tells the Death Eaters) of the events in CoS? -- Dave From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 19 19:00:28 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:00:28 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Git along, y'all References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> <002b01c0380d$3d8db000$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <003201c0393e$95259e40$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> <39EE1F23.6D6DEDE5@texas.net> Message-ID: <002101c039fe$da7d6020$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4079 > What exactly is the technical definition of "git"? This is not a Standard Texan > Form of Speech, you understand... > > --Amanda Think of it as a milder form of "asshole". Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 19 19:08:13 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:08:13 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Snape/nasty teachers/m-f friends References: <8sbbvm+p5l1@eGroups.com> <010701c037f1$e5386be0$0fc54b0c@cq5wu> <001701c0393c$ed50f260$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> <39EE1EBB.FC8C5B3B@texas.net> Message-ID: <002601c039ff$ef7c0520$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4080 > Jinx wrote: > > > I believe someone (Ebony?) mentioned why we're not getting worked up about > > the lack of ethnic minorities in there. Truth is, the UK is 90% white, so > > all in all, you wouldn't expect there to be that many non-whites around. > > Actually, I've always been impressed by JKR's casual and natural inclusion of > variety. It was never directly stated, but I took Lee Jordan to be black, > Angelina certainly is, and Parvati and Padma are Indian (India, not red). What > other major ethnic minorites would show up in a random sample of British kids? > (I really don't know, not trying to inflame anyone). I thought it way cool that > she saw no need to foot-stomp "Here be minorities!"; but instead treated their > inclusion was something so appropriate as to not need mention. Or much mention. > > --Amanda Then there's Cho Chang, who sounds Chinese to me, although it's never been stated. Indo-Pakistani, black, and oriental are the most likely non-white groups to be found in the UK, so it's not far fetched to include them. The numbers are about right as well - they're present but not a large part of the student body. I'm not complaining there. In fat, the ratio of whites to non-whites might actually be less at Hogwarts - non white magical families may prefer to send their children to a school in their ancestors' country of origin so they can learn their own cultural magical traditions instead. So non white students may be more likely to be Muggle borns. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 19 19:15:33 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:15:33 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Git along, y'all References: Message-ID: <003301c03a00$f66fb1a0$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4081 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:18 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Git along, y'all > Also, (as a naive American) is it a hard 'G' or a soft 'G'? > ~shahara in WI > Hard "g", as in pagan, or green. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 19 19:26:57 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:26:57 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Slightly OT- JRK and Ethnic Minorities in UK. References: <8sgqqd+bt2i@eGroups.com> <002b01c0380d$3d8db000$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> <003201c0393e$95259e40$8a8f7ed4@johnmitt> <003101c03951$1f4195e0$7755893e@default> Message-ID: <003601c03a02$8db3f2a0$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4082 ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Edmonds > Jinx wrote (paraphrased > >The UK is 90% white. > > 90% white seems a little on the high side to me even as an average. Out of > interset where did you obtain your stats. If they are accurate it would be > very useful for my college work. I remember hearing it mentioned while I was at college. Also, I just found the following site with all sorts of useful stats on it. http://www.warwick.ac.uk/~errac/keyinf.htm Total UK population = 54.8 million. Ethnic minorities = just over 3 million Pretty close, I'd say. Although I believe those are from the last census in 1991, so they may be out of date. > If Hogwarts is in the are of Scotland suggested it would be nearly 99% > white, (Although as Hogwarts is boarding and pupils come from all over this > isn't relevent.) or possibly more. London, Bradford, Birmingham, Mabchester > etc however are at least 60:40 I should think if not 50:50. I also believe > there is a large Asian community in Cardiff. Certainly the London inner city > nurseries and primary schools I am training in reflect this, indeed in the > current placement there are more non-whites than whites. South West of > Bristol you are looking at much lower figures. In the inner cities it's obviously not anything like that high. But in rural areas you'd be hard pressed to find that many. Even somewhere like London, there'll be some areas with lots of non whites living there, and some with virtually none. 90% white is an estimate, but it's probably not that far off if you take the entire country into consideration. Jinx From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 19 19:29:18 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:29:18 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001019011842.021c55a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8sni2e+97sj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4083 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > What do you think was Lucius Malfoy's true motive in CoS? > Was he really trying to create a Voldy "clone", a la _The Boys > From Brazil_? Or was the object to frame Ginny and drive > Arthur from the Ministry? Or did he just have this sudden urge > to sweep all Muggle-borns from the face of the Earth? > > Does anyone else find it interesting that Voldy seems to have no > knowledge (based on his "story" he tells the Death Eaters) of the > events in CoS? > > > > -- Dave We don't know whether Malfoy was in communication with the diary and plotted the whole thing with Riddle, but it seems likely to me that he did. Riddle implies that all his info comes from Ginny, but there is no need to assume that is so. In that case, Malfoy's motivations, whatever they were, would be subordinate to Riddle's. It appears, though, that the main objective of the plot was to drive Dumbledore from the school, and at this, it very nearly succeeded. Undermining Arthur Weasley and the Muggle Protection Act would have been secondary. Since the partially reembodied Voldemort in GOF could have heard about the events in CoS only from Wormtail, he could know only what Scabbers had overheard. This would not include anything Harry is (presumably) keeping to himself, such as Dumbledore's theories about Harry's ability to speak Parseltongue and the idea that Harry has assumed some of Voldie's powers. One assumes that the Riddle in the diary had no further knowledge of the 'real' Riddle, and vice versa. Pippin From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Oct 19 19:39:51 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:39:51 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions for Jo Rowling In-Reply-To: <8slm8f+2rer@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001019011834.021a5690@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4084 At 02:28 AM 10/19/00 +0000, Scott wrote: >I also had some others that I can't recall right now. Alas, where >hath may memory gone? I have some others: -- Did Dumbledore *mean* to say Voldemort was an *Ancestor* of Salazaar Slytherin or was this an error (either on D's or the editor's part)? -- Is the Wizarding world a democracy, i.e. is the Minister Of Magic elected? And is the MOM a "Prime Minister" for the Wizarding world, or is it a department in the Muggle Cabinet? -- Will Hermione continue with SPEW in the next book, or will she be too busy nagging Harry and Ron about boning up for their OWLs? :) -- Will Moody, Mme. Maxime, Fleur and Krum be back in the next book? -- Will Harry and Ron ever drop Divination and take some other elective class, like Ancient Runes? -- How are things going with that lawsuit from You-Know-Who (a.k.a. Nancy Stouffer)? -- Dave From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Thu Oct 19 20:09:46 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:09:46 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Report from Durham Cathedral Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4085 Hi everyone! A friend who lives in Durham went to the Cathedral Wednesday afternoon and sent me the following description of the set: "Did go to the Cathedral this afternoon though! Well spooky. There are indeed 'cobwebs' hanging from the triforium and a couple of mist machines were pumping out 'mist' and 'dust' all the time we were in the Nave. That stuff really gets to your eyes! Filming mainly took place in the Cloisters though this afternoon. Couldn't see much to be honest, though fake snow was brushed onto the archways on one side of cloisters, and other arches were blackened to look dirty and even more ancient than the Norman arches they are . It was still fun to see though - there was tons of enthusiastic kids and students there, but the mechanics of the day were just like I remember media filming. Two seconds in and can we do that again. We weren't allowed to get too close so I don't know if I was watching anyone at all famous being filmed. I sort of got distracted by longhaired, fit-looking crew guys looking all serious and involved.... Apart from the cobwebs, which are still quite subtle, all the other changes to turn it from a Cathedral into a school are very subtle indeed. The Cloisters and triforium are perfect school 'corridors I guess, narrow, nice stonework, good plaster and wood roofs. I saw one or two school 'shields' and a lectern with owls on it, which isn't usually there in the Cloisters, but most of the set was left alone." I wrote her back a brief "sorry the mist hurt your eyes and boy am I jealous" reply and she sent this today: "It was my own fault really - I was peering very hard at the mister machine (the operator was quite cool about it - laying back in a sort of low-slung deckchair yakking into his mobile. They were very effective at making misty dust - yet at close-of-day sunlight, I *always* see dust in the Cathedral nave, so I don't know why they need the 'artificial stuff'. The cobwebs were very realistic too - not dainty spiders webby things, but grey clods of things that looked very offputting ." Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* Quidditch is life ... the rest is just details. From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Oct 19 20:57:26 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:57:26 -0700 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <8sni2e+97sj@eGroups.com> References: <4.2.0.58.20001019011842.021c55a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001019135531.025bc480@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4086 At 07:29 PM 10/19/00 +0000, foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > It appears, though, that the main objective of the plot was to drive Dumbledore > from the school, and at this, it very nearly succeeded. This seems to go back to my theory that Dumbledore will get sacked in Book 5, and L. Malfoy will become headmaster(!)... -- Dave From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 20:56:58 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 189 Message-ID: <20001019205658.25071.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4087 >>American actors would have overdone the movie. Nonetheless, Robin Williams IS British. He would have made a pretty good ghost. ~Kaitlin<< Are there two different Robin Williams? The one I'm thinking of is the comedian--Mork and Mindy, Mrs. Doubtfire (which was also a Chris Columbus film), the voice of the genie in Alladdin, etc. If that's the same one, he isn't British. He was born in Chicago, I think but traveled around a lot as a young child. Never the less, he does do great accents. From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 22:17:31 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:17:31 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions for Jo Rowling References: <4.2.0.58.20001019011834.021a5690@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <00b701c03a1a$60d1d960$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4088 Dave, I like the last one!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hardenbrook To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Questions for Jo Rowling At 02:28 AM 10/19/00 +0000, Scott wrote: >I also had some others that I can't recall right now. Alas, where >hath may memory gone? I have some others: -- Did Dumbledore *mean* to say Voldemort was an *Ancestor* of Salazaar Slytherin or was this an error (either on D's or the editor's part)? -- Is the Wizarding world a democracy, i.e. is the Minister Of Magic elected? And is the MOM a "Prime Minister" for the Wizarding world, or is it a department in the Muggle Cabinet? -- Will Hermione continue with SPEW in the next book, or will she be too busy nagging Harry and Ron about boning up for their OWLs? :) -- Will Moody, Mme. Maxime, Fleur and Krum be back in the next book? -- Will Harry and Ron ever drop Divination and take some other elective class, like Ancient Runes? -- How are things going with that lawsuit from You-Know-Who (a.k.a. Nancy Stouffer)? -- Dave To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 22:20:19 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:20:19 -0500 Subject: Robin Williams Message-ID: <00c601c03a1a$c3e1f4e0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4089 http://us.imdb.com/Name?Williams,+Robin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 21:28:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:28:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> <39EE0E0B.A5FD38FB@alumni.upenn.edu> <000401c039fc$31cc7a80$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39EF6786.C8AC308B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4090 Jinx wrote: > Bear in mind that the foetus is still part of the mother's body. It really > doesn't have much of a separate identity, at least not in the early stages > of pregnancy. I think the spell to Apparate or Transform must work on the > whole body, and change/move the foetus with it. Although there's probably > medical warnings against heavily pregnant witches doing it. What I was thinking was that inanimate objects--clothes, purses, hairpins, wands, etc.--apparently travel with the spell-caster. But I'm not sure another animate object would. Even in utero, a baby would be a different animate object. So that's what gave rise to the question. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 21:33:00 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:33:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions for Jo Rowling References: <4.2.0.58.20001019011834.021a5690@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <39EF688C.95C8A29A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4091 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > -- How are things going with that lawsuit from You-Know-Who (a.k.a. Nancy > Stouffer)? Can someone fill me in on this one? I've only read references like this--what happened? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 19 21:40:05 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:40:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? References: <8sni2e+97sj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EF6A34.11C9938A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4092 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > We don't know whether Malfoy was in communication with the diary > and plotted the whole thing with Riddle, but it seems likely to me that > he did. Then why didn't Riddle already know about Harry and his later self, instead of strongly implying he'd found out about it from Ginny? > Riddle implies that all his info comes from Ginny, but there is no > need to assume that is so. But his actions support this; he resumed his course of Muggle persecution until he found out about Harry, and then changed his objective. I did find book 2 the least solid, for this very reason. While it *was* engrossing action, what started the action, and why was it going on? What was Dobby so worried about? Harry wasn't pure Muggle. I never understood Dobby's involvement, it seemed a bit shaky. --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 22:58:38 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:58:38 -0500 Subject: Book2, Dobby, and why Harry (not a pure Muggle) Message-ID: <001e01c03a20$20a93b20$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4093 Perhaps, living in Malfoy's mansion, Dobby knew the first prediction of Prof. T? And if that had to do with Harry, and hasn't come true yet, then that would be a reason to keep Harry Potter alive. If Harry dies, then the hope of the world goes with him--Voldie would win. And despite being Malfoy's lackey, Dobby really is a good person at heart. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lildreamer842 at aol.com Thu Oct 19 22:00:44 2000 From: lildreamer842 at aol.com (lildreamer842 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:00:44 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: JKR on Rosie? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4094 From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 19 21:59:03 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:59:03 +0100 Subject: Pregnant animaga, money, movie in oxford (update) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4095 Jinx wrote: "Bear in mind that the foetus is still part of the mother's body. It really doesn't have much of a separate identity, at least not in the early stages of pregnancy. I think the spell to Apparate or Transform must work on the whole body, and change/move the foetus with it. Although there's probably medical warnings against heavily pregnant witches doing it." Amanda wrote: "What I was thinking was that inanimate objects--clothes, purses, hairpins, wands, etc.--apparently travel with the spell-caster. But I'm not sure another animate object would. Even in utero, a baby would be a different animate object. So that's what gave rise to the question." How would the foetus be affected if the animal were one that did not have a uterus? Some animals lay eggs and so on, the beetle is one of these if I remember some of that biology stuff that some teachers tried to teach me, and we have seen Rita turn into a beetle. Christian wrote: "On the file posted, I noted that 8 was set to be equal to $5, indicating an exchange rate of ca. 1.5GBP/USD (GBP=British Pound Sterling, USD = US$). I thought the actual exchange rate was reverse - 1.5USD/GBP? The universal currency-converter at http://www.xe.net/ucc/ set it around 1.45USD/GBP." Currently it is about 1.45 USD per GBP. The pound has fallen against the dollar recently - so a figure of 1.5 would have been correct a little while back. I believe it was around 1.6 at the beginning of the year. Is the movie being filmed in Oxford? I have wandered round today and someone is definitely setting up for something. There is no sign of any filming having happened yet, but there are signs of props being brought in and lighting and other paraphernalia being set up. I get the impression that it is quite a big project involving a reasonable period of filming. Normally when people are filming in Oxford they turn up in the morning, film for the day and go home - maybe repeating this a few times. This looks nothing like that. There were also a few people wandering round make notes into portable recording devices. These people had the look of security - do not mess with me. There were also other visible signs of security - fences ready to be put up, areas with 'authorized personal only', etc. Something is happening - but I still cannot confirm it to be the HP filming. More soon - hopefully! Simon From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 19 22:22:12 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:22:12 -0000 Subject: Just a few more questions for JKR Message-ID: <8sns6k+uf74@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4096 Okay sorry to bother you but I thought of a few more questions to ask... 1)Where did you get the Idea for Harry Potter? 2)What was the first thing you ever wrote? 3)How do you pronounce Hermione? 4)What are you favourite books? 6)Did you always want to be a writer? 7)When is the Movie coming out? JUST KIDDING! Argh! If I have to read those anymore....and imagine being JKR!!! Now here are a few more real questions for JKR...err at least one of them is a worth while question.... 1) If Hogwarts serves the the United Kingdom and Ireland then why didn't we ever hear about the Hogwarts Quidditch careers of the players who are on the Irish national team, and not just the talent of Charlie Weasely in PoA? (I think the above needs rephrasing but is essentially a good question...Penny maybe you can help) another (silly) question that I was pondering while having my hair cut... Where do Hogwarts students get there hair cut, or is there a simple spell to remedy this? (I'm NOT saying that I think we should ask JKR this, however) Also how can I submit my questions tomorrow morning as I will not be here for the chat??? Scott From lildreamer842 at aol.com Thu Oct 19 22:29:18 2000 From: lildreamer842 at aol.com (lildreamer842 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:29:18 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] movie in oxford (update) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4097 I don't mean to burst your bubble but its been confirmed that the movie is taking place in a church (Glouchester Cathedral) I put a link to where I found this info on the bottom so you can check it out ... it would have been kewl to see it in the making ... and they have released more pictures of the young actors but they haven't done ne filming yet. Salon.com Books | Harry Potter kids cast From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 19 22:34:01 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:34:01 -0000 Subject: A couple of things: Message-ID: <8snssp+8lb6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4098 What a wonderful treat I had today: upon coming home, I was so excited to see in my mailbox the Al Gore/Harry Potter campaign button from Heidi (thank you, thank you, thank you, Heidi!) and the Muggles for Harry Potter buttons I got on ebay. Just a few more things to add to my growing collection. On another note, I've heard quite a number of you recommend Phillip Pullman's "The Golden Compass" and "The Subtle Knife" as good interim reading. So during my lunch hour this afternoon, I picked up both books and began the first one. I'm only a little more than 30 pages into it, and I'm already engrossed. I can't believe I've never picked this one up before! And did anyone mention that there is a character in it named Professor Trelawney? I found that rather amusing. Yesterday I bought the Hogwarts mug that came with Bertie Bott's every flavor beans. I tried a few before I sealed up the package to include it with my collection. I actually ate a black pepper-flavored one! Yeech! Sorry I can't attend the bn chat tomorrow. And finally, wish me a happy birthday tomorrow. Woo hoo! voicelady From lj2d30 at gateway.net Thu Oct 19 22:54:41 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:54:41 -0000 Subject: Molly's Signature In-Reply-To: <39EEF66C.5F8E2970@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8snu3h+ujb5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4099 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Alix Petty wrote: > > > Eh? Sorry, my brain is a bit slow due to, ahem, slight overindulgence last night, but I don't get the above - can someone explain and show me exactly how dim I'm being...is this something to do with the US editions of the books, or what? > > Sorry Alix -- we should all be more clear about which version of the > books we're referring to. The UK versions don't have the "signatures" that the US versions have with the letters that are included in the text of the books (you get signatures for Harry, Sirius, Ron, Mrs. Weasley & Hermione in PoA & GoF US versions). > > Rosie opened up GoF & showed the audience "her" signature on Molly > Weasley's letter to the Dursleys -- this was in JKR's presence so I > think it's reasonable to assume it to be true. > > Thanks to whoever posted the summary of the Rosie show." I did the Rosie summary and I apologize for not mentioning I was referring to the US versions. I will excuse my failure to do so out of sheer ignorance of the UK versions. I have only the US editions and was completely unaware that the UK editions don't include the handwritten signature. I am also sleep-deprived and extremely busy at work, so by the time I get home and plow through messages, I am not firing on all four cylinders. Trina From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 19 23:03:52 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:03:52 +0100 Subject: casting and Re: [HPforGrownups] movie in oxford (update) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4100 A while ago lots was mentioned about casting of Lupin, Sirius and a few others. It is perfectly possible for these to be cast for film one. Near the end Harry gets the photo album of his parents. Sirius is definitely in it and I would guess others like loony, loopy Lupin would be as well. Rachel wrote: "I don't mean to burst your bubble but its been confirmed that the movie is taking place in a church (Glouchester Cathedral) I put a link to where I found this info on the bottom so you can check it out ... it would have been kewl to see it in the making ... and they have released more pictures of the young actors but they haven't done ne filming yet." Burst my bubble - hardly likely. Supposedly Gloucester Cathedral is where the film is being set and yet it has been confirmed that they have filmed in Durham Cathedral. Elizabeth posted a cool message about this earlier today (thanks). Yes they have been filming - I have seen pictures of students, including the big three (read the article on filmforce - they may have been double - but so what?), dressed up in robes outside a mock up of Hogsmeade station. There have also been shots of 'Privet Drive', including an owl flying past a house. I have heard so many rumours about where, and even who is, connected with the film that I am unsure which news source to believe. Due to this I believe my own eyes. Someone is setting up for some sort of filming in Oxford. The amount of time this is taking suggests that it is a big project. What bigger project is there at the moment than the HP film? It is happening soon - so I will be able to confirm soon whether or not I was correct. I feel I will be - I have heard a similar rumour from too many people to even think about ignoring it. I can imagine one of the larger Oxford Colleges (i.e. Christ Church - where all this chaos is happening) having the perfect dining hall, entrance hall and maybe even the dungeons. My impressions of what Hogwarts looks like have all stemmed from the Oxford colleges (the Cathedrals mentioned have a fairly similar look to them). According to http://filmforce.ign.com/news/1545.html the filming in Durham was meant to finish today - indicating they may be going elsewhere soon. More credence to the idea of filming starting in Oxford soon. Some of my information is from: http://www.empireonline.co.uk/features/harrypotter/pictures.shtm Visit it for some cool pictures. Also there is: http://harrypotter.eqrealm.com/ Which is more rumour based - also includes lots of pictures. Simon (who is trying to convince more people to read the books) From lildreamer842 at aol.com Thu Oct 19 23:12:50 2000 From: lildreamer842 at aol.com (lildreamer842 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:12:50 EDT Subject: casting and Re: [HPforGrownups] movie in oxford (update) Message-ID: <37.ba2c46b.2720d9f2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4101 thanx for the sites ... there are so many rumors flying around that its hard to know what to beleive ... I think I kinda came off as bitchy before i didnt read what i wrote and when you posted what I said I came off as acting like I know it all ... extremely sorry ..... but thanx again for the links : ) Rachel From skywalker1 at ibm.net Thu Oct 19 23:16:35 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:16:35 -0000 Subject: HP 5 out within two years???? Message-ID: <8snvcj+ek2o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4102 Today's USA Today had an article in the Life section quoting JKR as saying the next Harry Potter book will be out "within" two years!!! She goes on to say that it is "not too far along ... It will be ready when it's ready". I'm sorry if I'm repeating old news but I hadn't heard this mentioned anywhere before. I can't imagine waiting another 2 years. I also am rading the Philip Pullman books in the mean time but thought the "meantime" would be a lot shorter. While I have to support her for doing the book her way and according to her vision, I don't look forward to the long wait. From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Thu Oct 19 23:34:10 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:34:10 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Help! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4103 Hi everyone, I am going to the AOL chat w/ JKR shortly (actually I'm already in the chatroom - just waiting for her to arrive) and I would like to try to ask some of our questions - but my computer has some "issues" with going to webpages right now, so I can't get to our list. Would one of you please mail it to me? I would really appreciate it. And are any of our aol members going to the chat? Thanks and Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:11:13 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:11:13 -0000 Subject: Live from the AOL chatroom (long) Message-ID: <8so2j1+csfc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4104 Well, here I am in an AOL chat for the first time, and boy does it suck! They divide you into ROWS, which as far as I can see doesnt mean anything except you get to listen to the insipid chatter of the other people in your row. They are only taking questions which were submitted in advance. Unfortunately, I was too busy to attempt that until a few hours ago, and I got an error message when I tried to send a question. I guess they stopped taking questions at some point. So far, the questions have been the same old same old, or just plain dumb. Here is the transcript so far, more later: JesseKNews: Good evening. JesseKNews: This is a real treat --- the most popular writer in the world. JesseKNews: Welcome, J.K. Rowling. JKRowlingLive: Thank you! JesseKNews: Tonight, because we have SO MANY questions, JesseKNews: we asked you to send them in advance. JesseKNews: I've gone through them --- will I use YOURS? JesseKNews: we also have two of Ms. Rowling's EXPERT young fans, JesseKNews: a boy who calls himself Firebolt JesseKNews: and a girl who is called Nimbus. JesseKNews: They will also be asking questions. JesseKNews: Nimbus, let's start with you.... Nimbus2000Live: Ms. Rowling, do you think that making a Harry Potter movie will help people Nimbus2000Live: understand the books better or will it ruin the imagination for the books? JKRowlingLive: I don't think people need help understanding the books... JKRowlingLive: I hope the film will be really good and not disappoint the fans JKRowlingLive: personally I can't wait to watch Quidditch JesseKNews: And now from Firebolt... FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, why did you write about witchcraft and wizardry? JKRowlingLive: I had the idea of a boy who was a wizard and didn't yet know what he was... JKRowlingLive: I never sat down and wondered 'what shall I write about next?' JKRowlingLive: it just came, fully formed JesseKNews: Here's one from Emily... JesseKNews: When people trade in Muggle money for Wizard money, JesseKNews: whoes does Griggotts do with the Muggle monrey? JKRowlingLive: those goblins are sneaky people JKRowlingLive: they manage to put the Muggle money back into circulation JKRowlingLive: they are like 'fences' - British slang, do you understand it? JesseKNews: Here's one from Tiger Lily.... JesseKNews: What did James and Lily Potter do when they were alive? JKRowlingLive: well, I can't go into too much detail, because you're going to find out in future books JKRowlingLive: but James inherited plenty of money, so didn't need a well-paid profession JKRowlingLive: you'll find out more about both Harry's parents later JesseKNews: Someone who's called Wizard asks... JesseKNews: If YOU went to Hogwarts, which house would they put you in? JKRowlingLive: good name, Wizard JKRowlingLive: well, I'd hope for Gryffindor JKRowlingLive: obviously JKRowlingLive: but I suspect they might want to put me in Ravenclaw JesseKNews: Nimbus? Nimbus2000Live: Ms. Rowling, where do you come up with those names of the characters, like Quidditch JKRowlingLive: Quidditch is a name I invented JKRowlingLive: I just wanted a word which began with the letter 'Q' JKRowlingLive: (I don't know why, it was just a whim) JKRowlingLive: many of the names are taken from maps JKRowlingLive: for instance, Snape, which is an English village FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, have you ever made a map or blueprint of the school? JKRowlingLive: no... because all those staircases keep shifting around JKRowlingLive: and rooms pop out of nowhere... JKRowlingLive: and stuff just moves too much... JKRowlingLive: but I have got a notebook that reminds me what floor everything is on JKRowlingLive: just to keep track JKRowlingLive: of course, if anything moves, I can blame it on magic, not my mistakes JesseKNews: J&L asks: What do you think of the people who want to ban your books? JKRowlingLive: I think they are...... JKRowlingLive: erm..... JKRowlingLive: what's a good word? JKRowlingLive: misguided JKRowlingLive: I think these are very moral books JKRowlingLive: everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but not to impose their views on others! From potterheads at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:21:10 2000 From: potterheads at aol.com (potterheads at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:21:10 EDT Subject: THERE WILL BE A FEMALE DARK ARTS TEACHER!!!!! Message-ID: <5d.22510cf.2720e9f6@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4105 Hey, guys!! Straight from Jo's mouth, on the Live AOL Chat, she just revealed that there will be a FEMAIL Defense of the Dark Arts Teacher!! Cool,huh?! Heeheheheh!! Most Sincerely, Pamela From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Oct 20 00:16:18 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:16:18 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Live from the AOL chatroom (long) References: <8so2j1+csfc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EF8ED2.28EE70A@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4106 Well, at least we've learned when Hermione's b-day is - Sept. 19 - and thast James inherited a lot of money AND that invisibility cloak. From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:21:29 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:21:29 -0000 Subject: Live (again) from the AOL chatroom Message-ID: <8so369+7lf2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4107 I will put anything interesting from the AOL chat in this post. (I hope its not empty!!!) Hermiones birthday is September 19 Someone asked about the gleam in Dumbledores eye and JKR said she cant answer it. We will find out more in book 5 about why some wizards and witches become ghosts when they die and some dont James Potter inherited his money, and his invisibility cloak, and we will learn more about James and Lily in later books STOP THE PRESSES!!!!!!! There WILL BE a female DODA teacher!!!! (Hooray!) I will post this; more highlights later. -- Joywitch From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Oct 20 00:29:43 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:29:43 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Live (again) from the AOL chatroom References: <8so369+7lf2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39EF91F7.132A5EDC@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4108 A bloody HALF HOUR? Pathetic. Joy's already put everything of consequence up - none of you who couldn't get in missed anything else. From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 20 00:37:31 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:37:31 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <39EF6A34.11C9938A@texas.net> Message-ID: <8so44b+crml@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4109 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > foxmoth at q... wrote: > > > We don't know whether Malfoy was in communication with the diary and plotted the whole thing with Riddle, but it seems likely to me that he did. > > Riddle implies that all his info comes from Ginny, but there is no need to assume that is so. > > But his actions support this; he resumed his course of Muggle persecution until he found out about Harry, and then changed his objective.<< I doubt that Riddle would have admitted to Lucius that killing Mudbloods and Muggle-borns no longer mattered to him. Since Riddle needed Malfoy to influence the governing board, Riddle would have to continue to pursue this objective despite having other priorities, at least until Dumble had left the school. This is exactly what he did. Riddle's words to Harry are constrained by his need to conceal Malfoy's involvement. > I did find book 2 the least solid, for this very reason. While it *was* engrossing action, what started the action, and why was it going on? What was Dobby so worried about? Harry wasn't pure Muggle. I never understood Dobby's involvement, it seemed a bit shaky.<< Dobby seems to understand that Harry is in danger from the diary before it comes to Ginny, which is why I think that objective must have been discussed in advance chez Malfoy, along with harrassing the Muggle-borns and Mudbloods, and getting Dumbledore sacked. No doubt Malfoy was accustomed to treating Dobby as part of the furniture, and didn't concern himself too much about whether he was being watched. Pippin From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:38:03 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:38:03 -0000 Subject: Live (again) from the AOL chatroom In-Reply-To: <39EF91F7.132A5EDC@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8so45b+iod0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4110 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > A bloody HALF HOUR? > Pathetic. > Joy's already put everything of consequence up - none of you who couldn't > get in missed anything else. She said Hagrid was her favorite character. By the way, I submitted every single one of our questions last night around 11 p.m., all prefaced by From HPFourGrownups at aol.com (actually it said HPforGrownups at aol.com), but it didn't work! From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:39:10 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:39:10 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Live (again) from the AOL chatroom Message-ID: <6.cf36ab8.2720ee2e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4111 It was actually an ok chat... Not many of our questions were answered, but some of them were good... Joywitch posted most of the interesting stuff.. but also Snape was named after an English village, Lupin will be back and book 5 will be shorter than book 4 and "scary." and E. Nesbit is the author she most identifies with... I submitted questions about ages, Dobby's appearing and disappearing and a few others... but they were not asked. Does anyone know if we can copy the aol transcript of the chat once aol posts and it? Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From potterheads at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:53:28 2000 From: potterheads at aol.com (potterheads at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:53:28 EDT Subject: J.K. Rowling Chat...and something else... Message-ID: <5b.cca35d9.2720f188@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4112 Book 5 will not be as long, and will be SCARIER! E. Nesbit is her favorite Author! Here is an attachment of the Chat for those of your that are not on AOL! To the list owner(s), I am sending this to all the lists I belong to, even though I realize that most of us are all on the same lists. (I am currently a lurker who is up to her big fanny in list e-mail! LOL! Someday I hope to be caught up....sigh.....) I believe the following audio clips I am about to discuss are too wonderful for even one single Harry Potter fan to miss out on so I want to share them with ALL of you! Click on the link below and enter the Magical Menagerie. Once there I want you all to check out the Jim Dale page and the J.K. Rowling page. There are Audio clips there that you can actually click on & listen to. I think you will find them to be wonderfully entertaining and enlightening, especially the J.K. Rowling clip. It is about 45 minutes long and from what I gather it was taped this past spring. Its a radio talk show type interview where she talks about Harry Potter, takes phone calls from listers of ALL ages and she even reads from her first book, The Sorcerer's Stone, the part where Harry gets "fitted" for his wand! The Jim Dale clip is from the Goblet of Fire Book, where the First Years are getting sorted and the Sorting Hat sings. Really cute! I wish it were longer, as it is only about 5 minutes in length. If it were longer perhaps he could have gotten in a more wider variety of characters for your listening pleasure. My absolute favorite character accent he does is Professor McGonagall. He gave her a wonderful Scottish lilt!! Now, my friends, sit back and enjoy the ride.... WWW.UniqueOriginals.Net Most Sincerely, Pamela "It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." Professor Dumbledore From potterheads at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:56:34 2000 From: potterheads at aol.com (potterheads at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:56:34 EDT Subject: OK, really, here it is! The Chat! Message-ID: <48.c63105b.2720f242@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4113 So sorry, guys!! Lets try this again! Pamela ---------- HarryPotterMom: (7) and open it to read at your leisure FreeWings628: (7) cool KatyD2008: (7) HPMom is dominating the chat! Go you! HarryPotterMom: (7) ROFL sorry FreeWings628: (7) you go mom SciNsboy: (7) I'm glad there arn't too many people in this row. Sporty1681: (7) ahhh NPetrikov: (7) Thanks for your patience in teaching us this stuff. HarryPotterMom: (7) (I'm a chat host and will try to behave :) PotterHeads: (7) what is the diff between session log and chat log SciNsboy: (7) I agree, FreeWing. KatyD2008: (7) No, no! I'm happy that one person can do it. ::smirks:: I need Moxie or Sierra to. Sporty1681: (7) she is coming in like 15 or so minutes HarryPotterMom: (7) session will log your ims HarryPotterMom: (7) chat only logs chat PotterHeads: (7) Ohhhhhh! FreeWings628: (7) Have you heard about the two extra books she is writing HarryPotterMom: (7) i think session does both but you can just do chat for this one NPetrikov: (7) What two extra books? Lightning lava: (7) no KatyD2008: (7) Oh! someone ask if that's a rumor! PotterHeads: (7) Now, how will my computer no when to stop recording this chat? HarryPotterMom: (7) someone send that question :) FreeWings628: (7) IThey are due in November 2001 KatyD2008: (7) ::points:: JK! NPetrikov: (7) About Quidditch and about . . . ? HarryPotterMom: (7) Potter - you have to reopen that log thing and click Close KatyD2008: (7) No, Book 5 due Nov 2001. FreeWings628: (7) The titles are SciNsboy: (7) Yeah! FreeWings628: (7) Fantastic Beast and where to find them KatyD2008: (7) March or April 2001 are the extra books. HarryPotterMom: (7) okay NOW note, there is a host who's in our room PotterHeads: (7) Your a GODDESS, Mom! Thanks!!!! HarryPotterMom: (7) with a very nice HP name :) Sporty1681: (7) Is Numbus2000LIVE J.K. Rowling??????? FreeWings628: (7) Quidditch through the ages HarryPotterMom: (7) nah SciNsboy: (7) Has anyone heard about the HP videogame for Gamecube? HarryPotterMom: (7) cause JKR won't be in our row MermaidG: (7) Whois this Nimbus guy? HarryPotterMom: (7) she won't be in any row FreeWings628: (7) YEAH YOU ARE RIGHT THEY ARE DUE IN MARCH2001 HarryPotterMom: (7) an AOL host Mermaid Taliswolf: (7) ::shudder:: videogame? KatyD2008: (7) I know. But she's *here*! SciNsboy: (7) Who are these Geusts? HarryPotterMom: (7) no Katy - Jo will probably use her own name to chat Sporty1681: (7) Is J.K. Rowling in here SciNsboy: (7) Not yet. FreeWings628: (7) not until 8 o'clock, 20 minutes KatyD2008: (7) Then who is Nimbus 2000? HarryPotterMom: (7) they won't put Jo up until 8pm probably NPetrikov: (7) Yes; I think that's Nimbus2000. SciNsboy: (7) I don't think. HarryPotterMom: (7) 10 min by my clock HarryPotterMom: (7) Katy - an AOL host HarryPotterMom: (7) like a moderator Sporty1681: (7) same here FreeWings628: (7) Really well I hope yours is right NPetrikov: (7) Don't tell me Draco Malfoy has snuck in here!!!! Lightning lava: (7) do you think there should be life after hogwarts books? KatyD2008: (7) Then why are there too? HarryPotterMom: (7) LOL NP KatyD2008: (7) two, even. FreeWings628: (7) NO definately not NPetrikov: (7) By snuck, I mean sneaked. HarryPotterMom: (7) I wish Lightning Sporty1681: (7) No HarryPotterMom: (7) I just keep rereading Harry :) SciNsboy: (7) I am scared that the HP videogame might come out. FreeWings628: (7) I am going to be so sad when the last Harry book comes out KatyD2008: (7) That's what Fanfic is for! KatyD2008: (7) Live after Hogwarts! HarryPotterMom: (7) when I was a kid I never re-read books FreeWings628: (7) I'll try HarryPotterMom: (7) but then there were no Harry books Lightning lava: (7) me to i read them over and over KatyD2008: (7) Life even, and there's a great fanfic ... Sporty1681: (7) yeah, just read the the books over and over till your life ends! SciNsboy: (7) I do a whole lot! FreeWings628: (7) I have read book 1 5x FreeWings628: (7) 2 3x HarryPotterMom: (7) 6 for me on book one Free FreeWings628: (7) 3 6x SciNsboy: (7) I have read book 3 11 times! FreeWings628: (7) book 4 4x HarryPotterMom: (7) and some of my readings are out loud to my now 7yo KatyD2008: (7) I've read massive amounts of bad and good fanfic just for a fix... HarryPotterMom: (7) we are on her 2nd hearing (my 3rd reading) of book 4 Nodoubtgal2001: (7) i've read each book 4x NPetrikov: (7) I can't believe how engrossed kids are in Book 4, at 700+ pages. HarryPotterMom: (7) the moderators have great names!!! Lightning lava: (7) there is a good book called the wizarad of earthsea so ive heard HarryPotterMom: (7) NP isn't it kewl AOLiveMC1: Join us Live! at 8:00 for a chat with author J.K. Rowling! HarryPotterMom: (7) ohhhhhh Lightning NPetrikov: (7) Way kewl. HarryPotterMom: (7) LIghtning that is one of my favorite trilogies Sporty1681: (7) aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh HarryPotterMom: (7) Ursula LeGuin FreeWings628: (7) how are you guys guest, why are you special HarryPotterMom: (7) Ged is a great character (Wizard of Earthsea) MermaidG: (7) is she here yet? FreeWings628: (7) just wondering SciNsboy: (7) I am having a very bas gass attack. HarryPotterMom: (7) not yet Mermaid NPetrikov: (7) Who is Ursula LeGuin? FreeWings628: (7) JK hurry up KatyD2008: (7) So you want to be a Wizard? is a good book. SciNsboy: (7) Are you others in the row smelling it? NPetrikov: (7) Fifteen minutes to go, by my clock. FreeWings628: (7) mine too HarryPotterMom: (7) wrote LOTS of books NP - HarryPotterMom: (7) Lightning mentioned the HarryPotterMom: (7) Wizard of Earthsea trilogy HarryPotterMom: (7) which is LeGuin HarryPotterMom: (7) 8 min FreeWings628: (7) I AM SO THRILLED Sporty1681: (7) I am going to go crazy!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE HER WRITING! I WISH I COULD WRITE LIKE HER!!!! NPetrikov: (7) E-flatulence is not very pleasant as a topic of conversation. FreeWings628: (7) oh this is too much stress FreeWings628: (7) 15 minutes Sporty1681: (7) no, more like 7 KatyD2008: (7) ::giggles:: My clock says 5... SciNsboy: (7) 5 minutes, actually. FreeWings628: (7) good HarryPotterMom: (7) aol's clock (KW clock) is 7:52 ET SciNsboy: (7) Thanks Mom. FreeWings628: (7) OH MY GOSH I AM GOING TO FAINT KatyD2008: (7) Mom, we love you! ::giggles:: HarryPotterMom: (7) I seriously am nearly that excited Sporty1681: (7) AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH HarryPotterMom: (7) but Free - turn off the caps, hon FreeWings628: (7) she is like my literary icon, because I am writer you know HarryPotterMom: (7) and don't forget to watch the Today Show tomorrow Lightning lava: (7) been looking for that book in my school library FreeWings628: (7) I am so glad there is no school tomorrow so I can see it Sporty1681: (7) everyone, find your center! PotterHeads: (7) what does "guests On Stage" mean? HarryPotterMom: (7) you'll like it Lightning - I promise HarryPotterMom: (7) those are the moderators, Potter SciNsboy: (7) OK, everyone keep cool. Lightning lava: (7) thanx mom FreeWings628: (7) what time is the Today Show on again HarryPotterMom: (7) that's where Jo will "sit" Sporty1681: (7) ok MermaidG: (7) IUs she on yet? HarryPotterMom: (7) she WON'T see what we type HarryPotterMom: (7) remember that FreeWings628: (7) HPmom you know everything don't you SciNsboy: (7) Calm down, everyone! HarryPotterMom: (7) she won't see any of this FreeWings628: (7) why AOLiveMC1: Please remember, you must be 18 years or older to send a question! KatyD2008: (7) HPMOM? How much of a veteran *are* you? HarryPotterMom: (7) LOL yep Free (I'm older than dirt) KatyD2008: (7) 18 or older? Fat chance... HarryPotterMom: (7) if you guys under 18 want to ask HarryPotterMom: (7) questions tell me and I'll send them HarryPotterMom: (7) in (if you have kid accounts) SciNsboy: (7) She WILL se what you ask her with the "Ask geust a question" button. AOLiveMC1: Please disregard the last statement! Thank you. HarryPotterMom: (7) NO Sci FreeWings628: (7) oh HarryPotterMom: (7) she will only see the questions that they give her HarryPotterMom: (7) NOT all the questions PotterHeads: (7) OK! Thanks! KatyD2008: (7) Ha! ::smirks:: They took it back! HarryPotterMom: (7) there will be hundreds of questions and she won't see most of them FreeWings628: (7) they better HarryPotterMom: (7) ohhh good (about the 18years or older - that was really stupid :) FreeWings628: (7) I wonder how many people under 18 are in here Sporty1681: (7) it is not true Twistr13: (7) where will her words come up? FreeWings628: (7) majority probably KatyD2008: (7) ::raises her hand and Nick's hand:: SciNsboy: (7) In this box. FreeWings628: (7) I am getting giddy HarryPotterMom: (7) her words will be in the top box Twistr13: (7) oh ok thanx HarryPotterMom: (7) (if your screen is split FreeWings628: (7) my palms are sweating SciNsboy: (7) No they won't. I read the Help part. MermaidG: (7) I'm 12, and I'll send them anyway HarryPotterMom: (7) and ummm I suggest you send your questions NOW SciNsboy: (7) Good for you. HarryPotterMom: (7) they probably already have hundreds SciNsboy: (7) To who? FreeWings628: (7) I sent 4 questions and I no where near 18 HarryPotterMom: (7) so just keep sending as many as you can think of NPetrikov: (7) So they do accept questions in advance? Good, because I've been sending them. SciNsboy: (7) to who, mom? HarryPotterMom: (7) Click Ask the Guest a Question ----------------> HarryPotterMom: (7) they do NP FreeWings628: (7) I hope they pick my four because I really want to know KatyD2008: (7) Mom, how do you get your split screen? NPetrikov: (7) HPM, you are very resourceful with your typing! CWizard59: (7) Just wondering, isn't radar basically based on sound? NPetrikov: (7) It's based on light. PotterHeads: (7) Split Screen?? How doI do that??? HarryPotterMom: (7) Katy - mine did it auto so that I am not sure of Sporty1681: (7) I sent my question at like 3:30 ish CWizard59: (7) *blink* HarryPotterMom: (7) LOL Katy - you stumped me HarryPotterMom: (7) she's there !!!!!!!!!! FreeWings628: (7) I sent it mine at 7:30 CWizard59: (7) Light? KatyD2008: (7) YES! I feel special! CWizard59: (7) Hmm NPetrikov: (7) Drum roll!!!!!!!!!!! CWizard59: (7) OH well Sporty1681: (7) she is here I think! FreeWings628: (7) I see her name CWizard59: (7) I think so too HarryPotterMom: (7) ::::::::::::applause:::::::::::::::: SciNsboy: (7) SHE IS HERE! FreeWings628: (7) in guest--------------> MermaidG: (7) YEA! HarryPotterMom: (7) that means that she's sitting somewhere and someone is typing for her :) NPetrikov: (7) Good show! CWizard59: (7) WOOHOO! HarryPotterMom: (7) this is soooo COOL FreeWings628: (7) OH my gosh HarryPotterMom: (7) she's even early MermaidG: (7) WOW CWizard59: (7) Wow Sporty1681: (7) yep FreeWings628: (7) good manners HarryPotterMom: (7) remember she can't see us HarryPotterMom: (7) so we can still be wild and crazy FreeWings628: (7) :::::::::::::everyone freaks out:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: MermaidG: (7) I know~ SciNsboy: (7) YEAH! HarryPotterMom: (7) and make comments about her answers CWizard59: (7) I wonder if she's in England, though I doubt it Sporty1681: (7) ahh! NPetrikov: (7) Yowza!! FreeWings628: (7) how will we know what she says HarryPotterMom: (7) like worshipful comments HarryPotterMom: (7) she's in NYC Taliswolf: (7) it's 1am in england Nodoubtgal2001: (7) WOW This is so kewl ! CWizard59: (7) I know MermaidG: (7) wow HarryPotterMom: (7) you'll see it Free Taliswolf: (7) *yawns* FreeWings628: (7) we aren't worthy PotterHeads: (7) I am so excited that I am having to sit on my hands to keep from waving! LOL! CWizard59: (7) That's why I was wondering NPetrikov: (7) Her words will appear on the main screen, along with ours. HarryPotterMom: (7) LOL NPetrikov: (7) But there will be no (7) before her words. OnlineHost: Copyright 2000 America Online, Inc. All OnlineHost: Rights Reserved. FreeWings628: (7) OH my SciNsboy: (7) Oh crap, I have to pee. MermaidG: (7) okay, here we go NPetrikov: (7) Sez you. OnlineHost: The auditorium consists of the audience OnlineHost: (where you are) and the stage, where the OnlineHost: MC/host and guests appear. Text which OnlineHost: you type onscreen shows only to your OnlineHost: row, prefaced by the row number in OnlineHost: parentheses, such as (2) if you are in OnlineHost: row 2. To interact with the speaker, use OnlineHost: the "Ask the Guest a Question" button. Sporty1681: (7) wow~ OnlineHost: To interact with those onstage, click OnlineHost: the "Ask the Guest a Question" button. OnlineHost: Select either "Send Question" or "Send OnlineHost: Comment." Please be aware that it may OnlineHost: not be possible to address all items OnlineHost: sent to the stage due to time OnlineHost: constraints. Questions or comments not OnlineHost: relevant to the event will not be used. CWizard59: (7) Here we GOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sporty1681: (7) lol MermaidG: (7) go pee,hen HarryPotterMom: (7) LOL yeah ummm time constraints MermaidG: (7) then, i mean FreeWings628: (7) here we go HarryPotterMom: (7) she'd have to be here forever!! FreeWings628: (7) JK talk MermaidG: (7) I'll shut up, now.......... FreeWings628: (7) whew CWizard59: (7) Yeah JesseKNews: Good evening. FreeWings628: (7) wow wow wow wow wow NPetrikov: (7) You may fire when ready, Gridley. MermaidG: (7) HI CWizard59: (7) Evening! HarryPotterMom: (7) FreeWings628: (7) OK Sporty1681: (7) good evening to you to! JesseKNews: This is a real treat --- the most popular writer in the world. SciNsboy: (7) Time constanit? They have them at Hogwarts? MermaidG: (7) Happy evening CWizard59: (7) EXACTLY! JesseKNews: Welcome, J.K. Rowling. JKRowlingLive: Thank you! NPetrikov: (7) Not for Hermione and HP; they travel in time. FreeWings628: (7) I am so happy right now MermaidG: (7) SHUTTUP MermaidG: (7) please JesseKNews: Tonight, because we have SO MANY questions, CWizard59: (7) *nod* FreeWings628: (7) oh KatyD2008: (7) Turn us off if you don't want to see us. SciNsboy: (7) yup JesseKNews: we asked you to send them in advance. MermaidG: (7) they did? FreeWings628: (7) OK JesseKNews: I've gone through them --- will I use YOURS? FreeWings628: (7) this how I stay online Sporty1681: (7) yes! FreeWings628: (7) you bette JesseKNews: we also have two of Ms. Rowling's EXPERT young fans, FreeWings628: (7) r FreeWings628: (7) oh my SciNsboy: (7) ME! CWizard59: (7) heh KatyD2008: (7) ::glares at the person who can't hear me:: You *will* use my questions. Sporty1681: (7) ME!!! FreeWings628: (7) me MermaidG: (7) right........ FreeWings628: (7) you better believe it JesseKNews: a boy who calls himself Firebolt SciNsboy: (7) I said me first! FreeWings628: (7) oh my Taliswolf: (7) a boy!? FreeWings628: (7) I am giddy JesseKNews: and a girl who is called Nimbus. SciNsboy: (7) I have a Cleenswep 7! FreeWings628: (7) announcer person hurry it up Sporty1681: (7) spiffy names!!!! JesseKNews: They will also be asking questions. Taliswolf: (7) ::looks at Virgo, stunned:: MermaidG: (7) funny KatyD2008: (7) She's a Girl! Firebolt's a gitl@ HarryPotterMom: (7) someone else probably has the HarryPotterMom: (7) same questions so there's a good HarryPotterMom: (7) chance you guys will get your HarryPotterMom: (7) questions answered :) FreeWings628: (7) let the women talk KatyD2008: (7) Girl!! SciNsboy: (7) Heah, I know. FreeWings628: (7) ah JesseKNews: Nimbus, let's start with you.... FreeWings628: (7) OK Nimbus2000Live: Ms. Rowling, do you think that making a Harry Potter movie will help people MermaidG: (7) right..... SciNsboy: (7) NIBUS SUCKS! HarryPotterMom: (7) two lucky kids FreeWings628: (7) please CWizard59: (7) Yeah KatyD2008: (7) ::whimpers:: Firebolt's a girl... ::frowns:: Nimbus2000Live: understand the books better or will it ruin the imagination for the books? SciNsboy: (7) what is ? FreeWings628: (7) give a question about the books HarryPotterMom: (7) grin, Sci JKRowlingLive: I don't think people need help understanding the books... FreeWings628: (7) our leader has spoken SciNsboy: (7) I think it will ruin the fantasy! JKRowlingLive: I hope the film will be really good and not disappoint the fans MermaidG: (7) yea! CWizard59: (7) *Applause* HarryPotterMom: (7) she is a goddess JKRowlingLive: personally I can't wait to watch Quidditch FreeWings628: (7) well spoken your majest Sporty1681: (7) yeah!!!! FreeWings628: (7) y SciNsboy: (7) YEAP! JesseKNews: And now from Firebolt... FreeWings628: (7) oh my PotterHeads: (7) yes, she is,mom.. SciNsboy: (7) Bowing FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, why did you write about witchcraft and wizardry? MermaidG: (7) come on..... FreeWings628: (7) comeone JKRowlingLive: I had the idea of a boy who was a wizard and didn't yet know what he was... JKRowlingLive: I never sat down and wondered 'what shall I write about next?' FreeWings628: (7) give a better question SciNsboy: (7) cause she can probably turn into a cat. JKRowlingLive: it just came, fully formed JesseKNews: Here's one from Emily... FreeWings628: (7) that ? has been asked a million times SciNsboy: (7) I heard this before in a magizen HarryPotterMom: (7) she's so sensible JesseKNews: When people trade in Muggle money for Wizard money, FreeWings628: (7) we are not worthy SciNsboy: (7) Bet you she is going to spell somthing wrong. JesseKNews: whoes does Griggotts do with the Muggle monrey? JKRowlingLive: those goblins are sneaky people HarryPotterMom: (7) now THAT is a good questoin FreeWings628: (7) yes CWizard59: (7) Whoes?Is that a word? JKRowlingLive: they manage to put the Muggle money back into circulation HarryPotterMom: (7) Jo probably isn't typing for herself SciNsboy: (7) She dosn't capitilize or punctuate! FreeWings628: (7) good answer JKRowlingLive: they are like 'fences' - British slang, do you understand it? SciNsboy: (7) No. HarryPotterMom: (7) LOL yeah we understand FreeWings628: (7) No HarryPotterMom: (7) she is very funny CWizard59: (7) Kinda JesseKNews: Here's one from Tiger Lily.... FreeWings628: (7) what HarryPotterMom: (7) like money laundering MermaidG: (7) ask my question...... CWizard59: (7) eh? SciNsboy: (7) I think her typer is drunk. FreeWings628: (7) OK FreeWings628: (7) thanks mom JesseKNews: What did James and Lily Potter do when they were alive? FreeWings628: (7) good ? MermaidG: (7) BORING SciNsboy: (7) She already asked one of mine! HarryPotterMom: (7) taking stolen money and making it "clean" by putting it through a business JKRowlingLive: well, I can't go into too much detail, because you're going to find out in future books FreeWings628: (7) give my question, where is the mauraders map MermaidG: (7) really? CWizard59: (7) Good answer, actually JKRowlingLive: but James inherited plenty of money, so didn't need a well-paid profession JKRowlingLive: you'll find out more about both Harry's parents later Sporty1681: (7) k MermaidG: (7) good FreeWings628: (7) oh shucks JesseKNews: Someone who's called Wizard asks... SciNsboy: (7) They were drunk. HarryPotterMom: (7) she is really excellent FreeWings628: (7) yes SciNsboy: (7) C WIZARD! JesseKNews: If YOU went to Hogwarts, which house would they put you in? JKRowlingLive: good name, Wizard FreeWings628: (7) G MermaidG: (7) good one JKRowlingLive: well, I'd hope for Gryffindor FreeWings628: (7) please JKRowlingLive: obviously FreeWings628: (7) yeah CWizard59: (7) heh, thanks FreeWings628: (7) horray JKRowlingLive: but I suspect they might want to put me in Ravenclaw HarryPotterMom: (7) my sorter put me in Gryffindor (but I think that's only cause I have red hair) MermaidG: (7) yeah ::sighs, listening to her favoprite authour:: JesseKNews: Nimbus? Nimbus2000Live: Ms. Rowling, where do you come up with those names of the characters, like Quidditch FreeWings628: (7) my second choice JKRowlingLive: Quidditch is a name I invented MermaidG: (7) hah JKRowlingLive: I just wanted a word which began with the letter 'Q' MermaidG: (7) that is so kewl JKRowlingLive: (I don't know why, it was just a whim) CWizard59: (7) Cool FreeWings628: (7) very kewl JKRowlingLive: many of the names are taken from maps Sporty1681: (7) whim??? SciNsboy: (7) That, was not the answer I expected. FreeWings628: (7) interesting JKRowlingLive: for instance, Snape, which is an English village FreeWings628: (7) wow MermaidG: (7) groovy CWizard59: (7) Lumos=Latin for light, I think SciNsboy: (7) Must suck to live there. FreeWings628: (7) amazing FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, have you ever made a map or blueprint of the school? MermaidG: (7) yep FreeWings628: (7) funnt LOL MermaidG: (7) I am taking latin MermaidG: (7) that is light JKRowlingLive: no... because all those staircases keep shifting around JKRowlingLive: and rooms pop out of nowhere... FreeWings628: (7) duh JKRowlingLive: and stuff just moves too much... MermaidG: (7) keal MermaidG: (7) kewl SciNsboy: (7) Like THE BATHROOM IN BOOK 4! JKRowlingLive: but I have got a notebook that reminds me what floor everything is on FreeWings628: (7) I am in a JK sandwich HarryPotterMom: (7) lots of the words are latin :) JKRowlingLive: just to keep track Sporty1681: (7) I think that is so cool how that happens JKRowlingLive: of course, if anything moves, I can blame it on magic, not my mistakes FreeWings628: (7) good CWizard59: (7) SOme are in Frence are too JesseKNews: J&L asks: What do you think of the people who want to ban your books? CWizard59: (7) names and such JKRowlingLive: I think they are...... SciNsboy: (7) REMEMBER THE BATHROOM THAT VDUMBLEDORE FOUND IN BOOK 4? JKRowlingLive: erm..... JKRowlingLive: what's a good word? JKRowlingLive: misguided FreeWings628: (7) ha JKRowlingLive: I think these are very moral books SciNsboy: (7) dum and stued. MermaidG: (7) yes, I do Sporty1681: (7) yes they are!!! FreeWings628: (7) very right HarryPotterMom: (7) completely moral CWizard59: (7) unenlighted JKRowlingLive: everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but not to impose their views on others! CWizard59: (7) ack, can't spell SciNsboy: (7) I'm right, or she's right. FreeWings628: (7) everyone in here is going crazy JesseKNews: Narri asks: Does the animal one turns into as an animagi reflect your personality? FreeWings628: (7) right on JKRowlingLive: very well deduced, Narri! MermaidG: (7) my hands are frozen MermaidG: (7) 8:13 JKRowlingLive: I personally would like to think that I would transform into an otter, which is my FreeWings628: (7) mine are sweating JKRowlingLive: favourite animal SciNsboy: (7) She has answerd two of my questions. Someone else just sent them in. JKRowlingLive: imagine how horrible it would be if I turned out to be a cockroach JesseKNews: Jessica asks: Is it hard being famous? HarryPotterMom: (7) I think she's typing for herself FreeWings628: (7) yuck CWizard59: (7) Which is good HarryPotterMom: (7) when she typed ....erm that gave her away MermaidG: (7) yea JKRowlingLive: Sometimes it's wonderful, like now, when I get to meet lots of readers JKRowlingLive: other times it's hard HarryPotterMom: (7) and favourite SciNsboy: (7) A cockroack that can type! MermaidG: (7) It makes it more personal HarryPotterMom: (7) cause erm is a Jo-thing JKRowlingLive: when, for instance, journalists come banging on my front door CWizard59: (7) paparazzi JKRowlingLive: especially when I'm cooking JesseKNews: Jasmine asks: When is Hermione's birthday? FreeWings628: (7) little does she know the lunatics praising her right now JKRowlingLive: Hermione's birthday is September 19th FreeWings628: (7) who cares Sporty1681: (7) yep SciNsboy: (7) I bet you that JK Rowling wears a Hairnet while cooking. FreeWings628: (7) ha Nimbus2000Live: Did you consider having a GIRL be the main character? JKRowlingLive: well, I didn't - purely because Harry came to me as a boy HarryPotterMom: (7) I love this question - she answeers this all the time SciNsboy: (7) Oh la la. CWizard59: (7) Hrm, I think that's kinda biased FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, =stat JKRowlingLive: and after I'd been writing about him for a few months, he was too real to me to change CWizard59: (7) I mean the question JKRowlingLive: however, Hermione is such a good friend too that I don't feel I have short-changed girls! SciNsboy: (7) Harry could of been Harirty. FreeWings628: (7) you lucky dogs, Nimbus and Firebolt JesseKNews: There so many people with "Harry Potter" screen names! One asks: Nodoubtgal2001: (7) OMG ! My Birthday is September 19th too ! MermaidG: (7) yes...? SciNsboy: (7) Was that anyone in here? JesseKNews: Why did Dumbledore have a look of triumph in his eyes at the end of Book b4? HarryPotterMom: (7) i think people ask because there HarryPotterMom: (7) are so few books for girls with HarryPotterMom: (7) extremely strong lead characters HarryPotterMom: (7) (really GREAT books that is) JKRowlingLive: good question.... excellent question in fact JKRowlingLive: and like all the best questions I get asked JKRowlingLive: I can't answer it! FreeWings628: (7) oh i love this JKRowlingLive: because it would give too much away FreeWings628: (7) WHAT JKRowlingLive: however, well-spotted FreeWings628: (7) i hate it when she does that JKRowlingLive: have fun guessing... someone's bound to get it right! HarryPotterMom: (7) she's so clever HarryPotterMom: (7) I like it, Free SciNsboy: (7) Dumbledore is a reincarnation of Voldermorts mother! JesseKNews: Samoran asks: Why do some wizards/witches become ghosts and others don't? FreeWings628: (7) OK let me think CWizard59: (7) I'm thinking that Dumbledore found a weakness in Voldemort when he did that=) JKRowlingLive: another superb question HarryPotterMom: (7) if she told us, it would be disappointing when we read the next books FreeWings628: (7) yeah i hate until I read it and i am so shocked JKRowlingLive: and this time I can tell you that you will find out much more about that in book five FreeWings628: (7) cool FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, after the first book, you stopped converting English words to American words, CWizard59: (7) Because they have something pressing to do before they died? FireboltLive: is there any reason for this? CWizard59: (7) had* JKRowlingLive: actually, we didn't stop... but the number of words that were changed has been JKRowlingLive: greatly exaggerated! HarryPotterMom: (7) that was a nice tempting answer - she's so good CWizard59: (7) Yeah FreeWings628: (7) yeah JKRowlingLive: we only ever changed a word when it had a different meaning in 'American' FreeWings628: (7) everyone is so reverent HarryPotterMom: (7) we worship her FreeWings628: (7) bows JKRowlingLive: for instance, the word 'jumper', which in in England means 'sweater' CWizard59: (7) *grovels* JKRowlingLive: and here, I believe, is something that only little girls wear! FreeWings628: (7) i know that HarryPotterMom: (7) ::::kisses her ring:::: JesseKNews: Jeanie asks: I think the color of Harry's eyes will matter in the books to come. Yes? SciNsboy: (7) I don't. I worhip Miayamoto. CWizard59: (7) Him too=) JKRowlingLive: Hmmmm..... maybe! FreeWings628: (7) cool answer SciNsboy: (7) You guys know who he is? Sporty1681: (7) nope Sporty1681: (7) Ask my question please CWizard59: (7) Lemme see...Legend of Zelda stuff? Nimbus2000Live: Ms. Rowling, will Voldemort ever die? FreeWings628: (7) OK another question FreeWings628: (7) good one Sporty1681: (7) yep SciNsboy: (7) And Mario, and Metroid! JKRowlingLive: Do you really really think I will answer that?! CWizard59: (7) she porbably won't answer that Sporty1681: (7) NO! JesseKNews: Another "Harry Potter" asks: Where did James get his Invisibility Cloak? SciNsboy: (7) YES! FreeWings628: (7) i didn't think so FreeWings628: (7) the store JKRowlingLive: That was inherited from his own father - a family heirloom! MermaidG: (7) yea.... SciNsboy: (7) Harry's Dad. FreeWings628: (7) even cooler CWizard59: (7) And where did -he- get that? JesseKNews: ANOTHER "Harry Potter" asks: Does everyone have a little magic in them? Sporty1681: (7) yeah, cause it said in the book that it is hard to find FreeWings628: (7) good one SciNsboy: (7) Hey C, good question. JesseKNews: Even if they are Muggles? And if not, how did Magic start? JKRowlingLive: I think we do (outside the books) JKRowlingLive: but within my books - do you really think there's any magic in Uncle Vernon? Sporty1681: (7) No! HarryPotterMom: (7) not a whit in Uncle V CWizard59: (7) Dark Magic, mebbe JKRowlingLive: magic is one of those odd talents which some have and some don't FreeWings628: (7) people are so unoriginal, Harry Potter, Harry Potter, AND Harry Potter Sporty1681: (7) yeah HarryPotterMom: (7) he's the anti-christ or something Nimbus2000Live: Ms. Rowling, what's your favorite spell? Sporty1681: (7) good one JKRowlingLive: My favourite spell (so far) is 'expecto patronum' - the spell that conjures the Patronus FreeWings628: (7) good one FreeWings628: (7) me too CWizard59: (7) I like that too HarryPotterMom: (7) I like accio JesseKNews: From Emily: Is there ever going to be FEMALE Defense Against The Dark Arts teacher? CWizard59: (7) Symbol of light and such HarryPotterMom: (7) terribly useful FreeWings628: (7) in like furnunculus FreeWings628: (7) just the way it sounds Sporty1681: (7) yeah! JKRowlingLive: Emily, I can exclusively reveal (because I'm feeling guilty I'm not answering so CWizard59: (7) Jelly Legs too=) JKRowlingLive: many good questions) SciNsboy: (7) My mom would gladly teach it. HarryPotterMom: (7) Ohhh say yes Jo JKRowlingLive: that there WILL be CWizard59: (7) YES! FreeWings628: (7) YES HarryPotterMom: (7) HURRAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Taliswolf: (7) wow... FreeWings628: (7) she actually answered it CWizard59: (7) WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYEAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH HarryPotterMom: (7) exclusive we heard it first CWizard59: (7) ahen Sporty1681: (7) YEAS BABY!!! SciNsboy: (7) YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEESSSSS! CWizard59: (7) Sorry XD Sporty1681: (7) *YES! FreeWings628: (7) we are a higher forms of HP fans Sporty1681: (7) oh yeah! CWizard59: (7) I'll be -so- mad if I'm not getting this logge FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, will Voldemort ways rise again, such as Muggle killings? FreeWings628: (7) i love this CWizard59: (7) say d NPetrikov: (7) Stop talking so much SciNsboy: (7) Oh yeah. *Straghtens buzzer tie.* FreeWings628: (7) I asked something like that JKRowlingLive: well, his temper hasn't exactly improved while he's been away, has it? JKRowlingLive: so I think we can safely say, yes JesseKNews: PMM asks: I like the products. Could there be sweater patterns for us knitters? FreeWings628: (7) no SciNsboy: (7) So did I! Third question! I'm not lying! CWizard59: (7) Being defeated a few dozen times does that to you JKRowlingLive: sweater patterns?!!!! CWizard59: (7) eh? JKRowlingLive: now I've heard everything FreeWings628: (7) what CWizard59: (7) oh HarryPotterMom: (7) if you guys don't get your logs, email me and I'll send you a copy :) JKRowlingLive: I really don't know... I'll have a word with Warner Bros! FreeWings628: (7) JK is so right Sporty1681: (7) lol CWizard59: (7) Woohoo1 CWizard59: (7) Thankos JesseKNews: Several people ask: Why stop at 7 books when you could make up Harry's whole life? MermaidG: (7) logs? FreeWings628: (7) yes FreeWings628: (7) why JKRowlingLive: I notice you're very confident that he's not going to die! FreeWings628: (7) huh Sporty1681: (7) THAT IS ONE OF MY QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! HarryPotterMom: (7) oh she is soooooooo good FreeWings628: (7) come again JK SciNsboy: (7) I hope he dies. CWizard59: (7) ohdang JesseKNews: And LOTS of people want to know what YOU do for the holidays? FreeWings628: (7) i don FreeWings628: (7) t JKRowlingLive: Christmas I'll be at home, watching my brother-in-law cook the turkey JKRowlingLive: (he's a chef) CWizard59: (7) *almost forgot to breathe* FreeWings628: (7) cool CWizard59: (7) cool JKRowlingLive: and for New Year, I'll be on holiday!! FreeWings628: (7) talent runs in the family SciNsboy: (7) She eats Bernie Botts Every flavor beans and collects wizard cards. FreeWings628: (7) definately JesseKNews: Why did you make Quirrell the bad guy instead of Snape? CWizard59: (7) plot twist CWizard59: (7) Gotta love it JKRowlingLive: because I know all about Snape, and he wasn't about to put on a turban HarryPotterMom: (7) LOL a question by a person who only read book one FreeWings628: (7) I can't believe my words are right next to hers JesseKNews: Narri asks: Is there a reason Fleur's name means "flower of the heart?" FreeWings628: (7) cool answer FreeWings628: (7) she is so cool CWizard59: (7) That's french, I believe JKRowlingLive: ah, Narri, you're nearly there... in fact, it means 'flower of the court' JKRowlingLive: like a noblewoman SciNsboy: (7) Cause she is SO hot! Just kidding! HarryPotterMom: (7) oui JKRowlingLive: heart is 'coeur' JKRowlingLive: (I used to be a French teacher, sorry) JesseKNews: Bob wants to know --- well, you ALL do: When does the next book come out? FreeWings628: (7) cool JKRowlingLive: I don't know! FreeWings628: (7) November 2001 JKRowlingLive: It isn't likely to be next July HarryPotterMom: (7) :( CWizard59: (7) Depends, actually HarryPotterMom: (7) not soon enough JKRowlingLive: but you shouldn't have too long a wait CWizard59: (7) Writers block JKRowlingLive: I am writing it already FreeWings628: (7) that is so weird i know more than JK JesseKNews: Tay asks: Ron and Hermoine give Harry gifts.... Sporty1681: (7) ggod! JesseKNews: Does he ever give them birthday presents? JKRowlingLive: Yes, Harry does buy presents back! FreeWings628: (7) see JKRowlingLive: but I've never focused on their birthdays yet CWizard59: (7) (duh) JKRowlingLive: there hasn't been room! FreeWings628: (7) it never matter FreeWings628: (7) ed CWizard59: (7) Okay, sorry, I'm just mad they wasted a question FreeWings628: (7) why does my pinkie keep hittne enter FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, which character besides Harry is your favorite and why? CWizard59: (7) in a way JKRowlingLive: I think that would have to be Hagrid JKRowlingLive: but I love Ron and Hermione too FreeWings628: (7) me too SciNsboy: (7) I bet you in book 7 Myrtle and Harry Marry! JKRowlingLive: and I also love writing characters like Gilderoy Lockhart, Snape, the Dursleys... FreeWings628: (7) (Dumbledore too though) JKRowlingLive: it's such fun doing horrible things to them JesseKNews: Another "Harry" asks: Will we be seeing Lupin any time soon? JKRowlingLive: Yes, Harry will be seeing Lupin again FreeWings628: (7) yes HarryPotterMom: (7) i love Lupin SciNsboy: (7) Lupin was so cool. JKRowlingLive: he's another of my favourite characterws JKRowlingLive: without the 'w' CWizard59: (7) yep HarryPotterMom: (7) I think he's my true favorite character JesseKNews: Sam asks: Will Harry time-travel again? FreeWings628: (7) my favorite DADA teacher JKRowlingLive: not telling! SciNsboy: (7) I miss Scabbers. Who else does. But I love Pig! HarryPotterMom: (7) without the 'w' :)) so he may be cured of werewolf!!!! FreeWings628: (7) that means he is JesseKNews: MANY ask: Can you say ANYTHING about the next book? CWizard59: (7) Lupin..Hmm..Doesn't that kinda mean moon or something?or wolf? PotterHeads: (7) Hermione! She said in the interview I listened to that she felt like they were soul-mates. JKRowlingLive: yes... it probably won't be as long as book four JKRowlingLive: it will be scary HarryPotterMom: (7) wolf CW Sporty1681: (7) DANG! JKRowlingLive: Harry finds out a lot of things he hasn't stumbled across so far CWizard59: (7) Dang\ FreeWings628: (7) cool FreeWings628: (7) even cooler CWizard59: (7) Cool FreeWings628: (7) i am floating on cloud 9 no twenty right now SciNsboy: (7) I liked the seccond comment. The first one ticked me off! MermaidG: (7) ask my question......... SciNsboy: (7) No. 4 wasn't long enough! HarryPotterMom: (7) 240 rows FireboltLive: Ms. Rowling, have you ever been inspired by another author? FreeWings628: (7) utterly brilliant CWizard59: (7) Way not long enough CWizard59: (7) I like that question JKRowlingLive: The author with whom I identify most is E. Nesbit FreeWings628: (7) don't waste that question like that CWizard59: (7) kinda JKRowlingLive: she did some great, funny fairy tales FreeWings628: (7) she has answered that ? a million times before Nimbus2000Live: Ms. Rowling, while we're waiting for the next book JKRowlingLive: excellent question! Read 'Clockwork' by Phillip Pullman Nimbus2000Live: what other books do you recommend (besides your own.) JKRowlingLive: or 'Skellig' by David Almond JKRowlingLive: or... let's see... CWizard59: (7) I -love- that book! SciNsboy: (7) Mom, ean I e-mail you for a copy of the log? I messed up on mine. JKRowlingLive: anything by Paul Gallico CWizard59: (7) clockwork!Yeah! HarryPotterMom: (7) sure Sci CWizard59: (7) Golden Compass! JKRowlingLive: or 'The Little White Horse' (for girls!) by Elizabeth Goudge HarryPotterMom: (7) I can just send one to everyone if you all want it? SciNsboy: (7) Maniac Magge! JKRowlingLive: or... ANYTHING! just keep reading! JesseKNews: In fact, you're doing two SHORT books that are coming out in March. Tell us about them. MermaidG: (7) can I have a log? FreeWings628: (7) yeah SciNsboy: (7) REDWALL! WHO LOVES REDWALL!? CWizard59: (7) Me too? CWizard59: (7) ME! FreeWings628: (7) what I tell you JKRowlingLive: Yes, I've written 'Quidditch Through the Ages' and MermaidG: (7) I HATE REDWALL HarryPotterMom: (7) I'll send to everyone - if you don't want it just kill the email, k? JKRowlingLive: 'Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them' CWizard59: (7) Just finished Rereading Redwall, actually JKRowlingLive: all proceeds will go to Comic Relief UK SciNsboy: (7) You suck, mermaid. HarryPotterMom: (7) she needs to write Hogwarts a History FreeWings628: (7) what I tell you i am informed JKRowlingLive: to help famine relief and other projects in Africa SciNsboy: (7) Wizard, isn't it good? MermaidG: (7) I know FreeWings628: (7) yeah MOM you are right MermaidG: (7) I do JKRowlingLive: they'll be available in March of next year CWizard59: (7) That's nice FreeWings628: (7) what i say SciNsboy: (7) I agree with mom. JKRowlingLive: so book early!!! you'll be saving lives... good magic! Sporty1681: (7) good! CWizard59: (7) double good JesseKNews: Well, we have answered a lot of great questions --- and dodged a bunch. FreeWings628: (7) yeah i should go to borders CWizard59: (7) So?Authors can do that JesseKNews: Ms. Rowling, we've lot this. Please come back....often. FreeWings628: (7) no it can't be over JKRowlingLive: I'm really sorry if you didn't get your question answered JKRowlingLive: Thanks to Nimbus and Firebolt! MermaidG: (7) it's over? FreeWings628: (7) so kind JesseKNews: Night, all. CWizard59: (7) *wails* FreeWings628: (7) i have hit the floor and fainted HarryPotterMom: (7) :::::::::::Clapping::::::::::::::: CWizard59: (7) Oh well SciNsboy: (7) NO IT'S FREAKING OVER! FreeWings628: (7) ::::::::::::BRAVO:::::::::::::::: CWizard59: (7) *applause* OnlineHost: Copyright 2000 America Online, Inc. All OnlineHost: Rights Reserved. MermaidG: (7) BBBOOOO Sporty1681: (7) is it over??? MermaidG: (7) oh well NPetrikov: (7) It was simply delightful. Nodoubtgal2001: (7) We love you JK ! FreeWings628: (7) goodbye all HarryPotterMom: (7) it sure was MermaidG: (7) yep CWizard59: (7) All good things have to end OnlineHost: Thank you for joining us! Remember to OnlineHost: check keyword: LIVE often for upcoming OnlineHost: news and political events, celebrities OnlineHost: and renowned personalities. CWizard59: (7) *wave* FreeWings628: (7) oh what a wonderful night PotterHeads: (7) I am very happy to have been apart of this! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Ellimist15 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 00:59:15 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:59:15 EDT Subject: Dean Thomas and differences in PS and SS Message-ID: <66.87293e8.2720f2e5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4114 Sirius' bank vault? You mind typing the passage? That wasn't in my version. (first printing, US edition) Gah, I wish I had the UK versions. Ellie - who firmly believes that they should have kept it "Philosopher" Simon said: This is interesting. A change in the books - where the American version has more detail than the British version. Most of the other changes that I know about seem to be concerned with removing details (cf. Sirius' back vault number in PoA), or making things 'American'. From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 01:35:05 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:35:05 -0000 Subject: Robin Williams In-Reply-To: <8snb84+i9qd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8so7g9+h3er@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4115 Robin Williams was born in London and his mother is British. ~Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > > How do we know that the signature was actually hers? She kept > > talking about the role as if she had it. "And this boy plays my > son, > > Ron..." > > American actors would have overdone the movie. Nonetheless, Robin > > Williams IS British. He would have made a pretty good ghost. > > Actually, JKR confirms that the signature is Rosies, and I thought > Rosie was pretty obviously trying to be funny when she kept referring > to Ron as her son. THe whole JKR appearance was only about 5 minutes > long, and I thought Rosie dominated the whole thing by talking about > virtually nothing but how she wants to play Molly Weasley -- pretty > disappointing interview, on the whole. Oh, and I am pretty sure that > Robin Williams is an American. I could be wrong, of course, but > there is nothing British about the way he speaks. > > -- Joywitch From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 01:40:20 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:40:20 -0000 Subject: Robin Williams (whoops!) In-Reply-To: <8so7g9+h3er@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8so7q4+65f5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4116 I just checked a Robin Williams website and he was in fact born in Chicago. Maybe it was just his mother who was born in London. Then that would make him semi-British, I guess... ~Kaitlin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > Robin Williams was born in London and his mother is British. > ~Kaitlin From donnadr at gte.net Fri Oct 20 01:43:57 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:43:57 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A couple of things: References: <8snssp+8lb6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009601c03a37$3ae3e500$849c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 4117 Happy Birthday voicelady...and many, many more. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady at mymailstation.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:34 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] A couple of things: What a wonderful treat I had today: upon coming home, I was so excited to see in my mailbox the Al Gore/Harry Potter campaign button from Heidi (thank you, thank you, thank you, Heidi!) and the Muggles for Harry Potter buttons I got on ebay. Just a few more things to add to my growing collection. On another note, I've heard quite a number of you recommend Phillip Pullman's "The Golden Compass" and "The Subtle Knife" as good interim reading. So during my lunch hour this afternoon, I picked up both books and began the first one. I'm only a little more than 30 pages into it, and I'm already engrossed. I can't believe I've never picked this one up before! And did anyone mention that there is a character in it named Professor Trelawney? I found that rather amusing. Yesterday I bought the Hogwarts mug that came with Bertie Bott's every flavor beans. I tried a few before I sealed up the package to include it with my collection. I actually ate a black pepper-flavored one! Yeech! Sorry I can't attend the bn chat tomorrow. And finally, wish me a happy birthday tomorrow. Woo hoo! voicelady eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From donnadr at gte.net Fri Oct 20 01:50:05 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:50:05 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP 5 out within two years???? References: <8snvcj+ek2o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a401c03a38$1291d2a0$849c0b3f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 4118 I can sympathize, Brian...I remember waiting four or five years for book 4 of Stephen King's The Dark Tower series. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:16 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP 5 out within two years???? Today's USA Today had an article in the Life section quoting JKR as saying the next Harry Potter book will be out "within" two years!!! She goes on to say that it is "not too far along ... It will be ready when it's ready". I'm sorry if I'm repeating old news but I hadn't heard this mentioned anywhere before. I can't imagine waiting another 2 years. I also am rading the Philip Pullman books in the mean time but thought the "meantime" would be a lot shorter. While I have to support her for doing the book her way and according to her vision, I don't look forward to the long wait. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Oct 20 01:56:31 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 20 Oct 2000 01:56:31 -0000 Subject: Poll results for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972006991.22639@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4119 The following HPforGrownups poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: What about Cornelius Fudge? CHOICES AND RESULTS - He is shallow and ambitious, but not really evil, 42 votes, 91.30% - Lucius Malfoy is controlling him with the Imperius Curse, 1 votes, 2.17% - He is in league with Lord Voldemort, 3 votes, 6.52% For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Oct 20 01:57:05 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 20 Oct 2000 01:57:05 -0000 Subject: Poll results for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972007025.30898@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4120 The following HPforGrownups poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Albus Dumbledore CHOICES AND RESULTS - will die heroically in the last book, 30 votes, 52.63% - will live forever, 4 votes, 7.02% - will be killed by Lord Voldemort, 16 votes, 28.07% - will be betrayed by Snape, 1 votes, 1.75% - is an unregistered animagus, 4 votes, 7.02% - will select Ron Weasley as the next headmaster, 2 votes, 3.51% For more information about this group, please visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups For help with eGroups, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 20 02:12:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:12:38 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets?/Hagrid In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001019135531.025bc480@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8so9mm+c80c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4121 I would suggest that Lucius Malfoy is at war, and when at war, one engages in activities that are designed to create fear, terror, and confusion among the enemy. I would further suggest that although Dumbledore is always the target of Voldemort (his tirade when he confronts the DE in GoF springs to mind) that Malfoy hates Arthur Weasley with malicious passion. This scheme might succeed in driving Dumbledore from Hogwarts, but the evilly delicious appetizer is that Ginny Weasley would be disgraced (go to Azkaban?) and Arthur Weasley would be discredited. This would allow Malfoy further ascendancy over the Ministry of Magic where he already has much influence over the Fudge. In addition, it would create fear and terror by killing some of the students..invoking Salazar Slytherin, the ancestor of his only remaining descendant Lord Voldemort....probably cause problems all over the place...... And why can't Hagrid get a new wand? Do wizards/witches who haven't been to Hogwarts have wands? From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 20 02:30:50 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:30:50 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <8so44b+crml@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8soaoq+nj76@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4122 No doubt > Malfoy was accustomed to treating Dobby as part of the furniture, and > didn't concern himself too much about whether he was being watched. > Pippin HouseElves orientation/indoctrination/way of being is that they keep their master's secrets. Malfoy complacently assumed that Dobby would do so. It's not at all far fetched -- when you consider that Dobby is one of the only house elves to ever get paid -- that he would decide to save Harry Potter (the Boy Who Lived!) from yet another plot to destroy him. It will be fun to learn more about House Elves.... Susan From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 05:10:19 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:10:19 -0000 Subject: movie in oxford (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sok3r+cqbk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4123 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, lildreamer842 at a... wrote: > I don't mean to burst your bubble but its been confirmed that the movie is > taking place in a church (Glouchester Cathedral) I put a link to where I > found this info on the bottom so you can check it out ... it would have been > kewl to see it in the making ... and they have released more pictures of the > young actors but they haven't done ne filming yet. > > Salon.com Books | Harry Potter kids cast This is an OLD article with the same old photograph of the 3 kids. They are filming a number of different location shots, including Glouchester Catedral. They could easily be filming at Oxford as well. From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 05:13:50 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:13:50 -0000 Subject: A couple of things: In-Reply-To: <8snssp+8lb6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sokae+pv3s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4124 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > What a wonderful treat I had today: upon coming home, I was so > excited to see in my mailbox the Al Gore/Harry Potter campaign button > from Heidi (thank you, thank you, thank you, Heidi!) and the Muggles > for Harry Potter buttons I got on ebay I believe you can still get the Muggles for Harry Potter buttons in bookstores and directly from the American Booksellers Foundation, and directly support their efforts to fight the book-banners. Go to www.mugglesforharrypotter.com > Yesterday I bought the Hogwarts mug that came with Bertie > Bott's every flavor beans. I tried a few before I sealed up the > package to include it with my collection. I actually ate a black > pepper-flavored one! Yeech! Where are they selling those? WB store? Hallmark? B&N? Ive lost track. -- Joywitch From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 06:17:53 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:17:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OK, really, here it is! The Chat! References: <48.c63105b.2720f242@aol.com> Message-ID: <008d01c03a5d$7bb36da0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4125 I think I'd go nuts if I was in this chat room! I would have just kept saying, SHHHHHHH or shut up, or something along those lines. I am not too patient, unfortuneately, when I am in a movie theatre, either! :) So you can go ahead and send in BN questions, then tonite? YEAH!!! HarryPotterMom: (7) I just keep rereading Harry :) SciNsboy: (7) I am scared that the HP videogame might come out. FreeWings628: (7) I am going to be so sad when the last Harry book comes out KatyD2008: (7) That's what Fanfic is for! KatyD2008: (7) Live after Hogwarts! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 06:27:12 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:27:12 -0500 Subject: The BN Chat! References: <48.c63105b.2720f242@aol.com> Message-ID: <00c601c03a5e$c8857460$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4126 Hey, I just visited the link to the BN chat, and I think you might be able to use Cheetachat for it! If so, that would be sooooo kewl! Let me know if it works, I won't be home, unfortuneately--Ian's best friend Ashley's mother is taking both families to Boo at the Zoo (same lady who bought me the GoF way back when!) I am not certain what time we are leaving--we've planned for 10.30 am, but that doesn't mean it'll work out that way! (Never does!) :) Has anyone asked "Is she planning to write Hogwarts, A History?" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 05:35:11 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 05:35:11 -0000 Subject: Info on the B&N chat Message-ID: <8solif+b5v0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4127 The B&N chat takes place at 2pm (EST, I assume) Friday Oct 20. The chat room opens at 1:30. You can not submit questions until 1:30 on Friday. You have to be a register Yahoo user (for some reason) to participate in the chat. The URL for the chat is www.barnesandnoble.com/community/community.asp -- Joywitch P.S. I am sorry I didnt post the rest of the AOL chat like I promised, but my computer crashed and I lost the whole thing. I notice someone else posted it, fortunately. Just a note for AOL users, in case there is another chat someday - you can shut off the comments from the other people in your row so that you have a chat transcript of just what the guests say rather than of the guests plus the chatting masses who drive Dee crazy (she is not the only one...) From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Oct 20 06:02:31 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:02:31 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] OK, really, here it is! The Chat! Message-ID: <96.b0ce35c.272139f7@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4128 In a message dated 10/19/2000 11:20:23 PM CST, gypsycaine at yahoo.com writes: << I think I'd go nuts if I was in this chat room! I would have just kept saying, SHHHHHHH or shut up, or something along those lines. I am not too patient, unfortuneately, when I am in a movie theatre, either! :) >> Fortunately, it is possible to "turn off" the audience chat and just see the moderator and guest's portion! Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Oct 20 06:04:46 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 02:04:46 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Info on the B&N chat Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4129 Thank you Joywitch! Is somebody divvying up the questions? I'd be glad to help send some! Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 20 06:07:53 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:07:53 -0700 Subject: Scylla * Lycanthra * Voldemort's Passion * AOL Chat Message-ID: <39EFE138.9A920868@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4130 ***Scylla is half of the famous pair, Scylla and Charybdis. Two dangers that are so close together that if a ship sailing between them deviates even a little from the dead center of the strait, it will be destroyed by the monster to which it veers near. Charybdis is a maelstrom which will suck down the whole ship; Scylla is a monster whose body is made of the heads of dogs which grab sailors off the deck and devour them. My friend told me that the name Scylla MEANS 'puppy'. I chose that name because I was trying for a female name with recognisable canine associations. Here is a URL I just found for the whole sad story of how the sweet young girl Scylla got turned into the monster Scylla: http://www.hsa.brown.edu/~maicar/Scylla1.html ***Today I figured out that the best name for her is W. Lupe Villalobos (which in Britain probably would mean that she has to be an 'ethnic' character, but in California does not). If the W. stood for Wilfredina after her father (my friend has a friend named Howardina), that would explain why she wants to conceal it under an initial AND it would (co-incidentally) look a little like the word 'wolf'. *** Lynnia wrote: > Keep in mind that Voldemort is old enough to be Lily's father (I know this > doesn't stop some people...) but that also presents an odd thing...how often do > almost-70-year-old men try to take over the world? But by the time he killed James and Lily, he was no longer a 70-year-old man, he was by then an immortal snake-anthromorph. Which to me makes it dubious that he would have an erotic passion for anyone except maybe Nagini. *** Tremendous thanks to Pamela for posting the AOL Chat transcript. I am about to waste bandwidth by repeating the good parts: Q: What did James and Lily Potter do when they were alive? A: well, I can't go into too much detail, because you're going to find out in future books, but James inherited plenty of money, so didn't need a well-paid profession. you'll find out more about both Harry's parents later (I kept SAYING that James inherited that money!) Q: Ms. Rowling, have you ever made a map or blueprint of the school? A:: no... because all those staircases keep shifting around and rooms pop out of nowhere... and stuff just moves too much... but I have got a notebook that reminds me what floor everything is on, just to keep track. of course, if anything moves, I can blame it on magic, not my mistakes (Didn't our list folks say that when Steve Van der Ark spoke of making a map for his Lexicon?) Q: Narri asks, Does the animal one turns into as an animagi reflect your personality? A: very well deduced, Narri! I personally would like to think that I would transform into an otter, which is my favourite animal. imagine how horrible it would be if I turned out to be a cockroach (Surprise: whoever wrote all those fanfics in which the fifth Marauder is a girl who becomes an Otter Animagus with the nickname Rudder was right!) Q: When is Hermione's birthday? A: Hermione's birthday is September 19th Q:: Where did James get his Invisibility Cloak? A: That was inherited from his own father - a family heirloom! (So much for the theory that James got it as a perk of his hypothetical Auror job) -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 20 08:08:06 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:08:06 +0100 Subject: Sirius Bank vault Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4131 I start with a small interlude. Happy Birthday Voicelady. Ellie asked: "Sirius' bank vault? You mind typing the passage? That wasn't in my version. (first printing, US edition) Gah, I wish I had the UK versions." This is from the letter Sirius writes to Harry at the end of PoA, the letter is delivered by Pig. UK version (1st edition paperback - Ch 22) "It was I who sent you the Firebolt. Crookshanks took the order to the Owl Office for me. I used your name but told them to take the gold from Gringotts vaulut number seven hundred and eleven - my own. Please consider it as thirteen birthdays' worth of presents from your godfather." US version (Ch 22) It was I who sent you the Firebolt. Crookshanks took the order to the Owl Office for me. I used your name but told them to take the gold from my own Gringotts vault. Please consider it as thirteen birthdays' worth of presents from your godfather." Simon From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Oct 20 08:14:46 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:14:46 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pregnant animaga, money, movie in oxford (update) Message-ID: <20001020081446.6592.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4132 I wrote that somewhat in a hurry. What I meant is that the file indicated an exchange rate of 0.7USD/GBP - the inverse of the actual rate. > Christian wrote: "On the file posted, I noted that > 8 was set to be equal to > $5, indicating an exchange rate of ca. 1.5GBP/USD > (GBP=British Pound > Sterling, USD = US$). I thought the actual exchange > rate was reverse - > 1.5USD/GBP? The universal currency-converter at > http://www.xe.net/ucc/ set > it around 1.45USD/GBP." > > Currently it is about 1.45 USD per GBP. The pound > has fallen against the > dollar recently - so a figure of 1.5 would have been > correct a little while > back. I believe it was around 1.6 at the beginning > of the year. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 20 11:57:43 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 06:57:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More gay discussion, lots, and I'll stop now References: <8slps2+eec2@eGroups.com> <39EF170D.C5C6C2E0@texas.net> Message-ID: <39F03337.EE9A1D5E@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4133 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Or it implies that the reader consider lesbians and gays to > > be part of the population and is curious why they are not in the book > > And as I pointed out in an earlier post, they may well *be* in there. JKR > does not write big neon signs to point out the characteristics of her > characters, she just writes the characters. If some aspect of their > personality, such as sexual orientation, becomes relevant to the story, it > is included; if not, it may not be mentioned. > > Of course the acknowledged heterosexual characters imply sex offscreen. The > children make it a certainty. Whatever it may imply for our cultural > awareness, the fact of the matter is that approaching it as a writer she > doesn't *need* to put any sort of scene or evidence for heterosexual > characters, she can let it be assumed. > > The problem I've been addressing is how to identify a character as gay both > clearly and satisfactorily without a physical relationship being identified > or implied. What you're getting at is interesting and subtle, Amanda. I remember an extremely effective short story I read once, told from the viewpoint of a child of about 10 in the 1950s American South, a very racist period. And she knows and is friends with a white woman in her neighborhood who had a black man living at her house. In the culture of the time, the little girl "knows" that the black man is "her man," meaning her servant, her errand guy. That's all she sees, all she THINKS to see. Until one day, when she happens to be in the woman's bedroom, and she suddenly sees that the man's slippers are under the bed, too. And all hell breaks loose. It is not until then that she recognizes and realizes that the man and the woman are lovers. She has not witnessed any physical intimacy, obviously. But the point doesn't get across to her until she sees something that implies the physical intimacy--the slippers. The possibility just doesn't occur to her; it CAN'T in that culture; it's unthinkable. The scene where she discovers the slippers is quite wonderful; you see, in her viewpoint, how that simple little detail, the slippers, unmoors her whole world--and spells the doom of the interracial couple. Wish I could remember the name of that story. Anyone else ever read it? Anyway, this is what you are talking about. I've never really thought about it before, but yes, you're right. You see a same sex couple, and you think "they're roommates," unless you see them holding hands, and then you think "they're gay" -- but how do you make that transition unless you see them holding hands? And how do you get the point across, particularly, to a child? Very interesting. I'll have to think about this. Peg From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Oct 20 12:35:45 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 20 Oct 2000 05:35:45 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A couple of things: Message-ID: <20001020123545.16430.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4134 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Oct 20 12:48:16 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 20 Oct 2000 05:48:16 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More gay discussion Message-ID: <20001020124816.16610.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4135 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Oct 20 12:57:05 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:57:05 +0200 (CEST) Subject: How many wizards... Message-ID: <20001020125705.21798.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4136 While I am waiting for fanfiction.net to get back online, I am crunching some numbers on a spreadsheet. In the discussion here following Dr. Rowling's statement that Hogwarts has 1000 students, someone mentioned that the student-number also reflected the number of wizards living in Britain. I thought it would be interesting to see if I could deduct how many there are, and so I unearthed some demographical statistics from www.ssb.no (the Norwegian Bureau of Statistics) and http://wood.ccta.gov.uk/grosweb/grosweb.nsf (General Registry Office of Scotland), and used these to calculate how large a segment of the population would be in the relative agegroup equal to enrollment at Hogwarts, comparing results from the two sources. I could not find any datasources for Britain as a whole. I tried searching the National Statistics Website, http://www.statistics.gov.uk/, but I found nothing helpful. The sources are current or recent data, from the period 1998-2000. I had to make some assumptions. - I assume that the life-expectancy of a wizard is twice that of a muggle. - I assume that the period of fertility is likewise lengthened. - I assume that the demographic distribution agewise is similar, but adjusted with a factor of two (i.e., the segment of the muggle-population aged 7-8 years in proportion of the muggle-total old is equal to the segment of the wizarding population aged 14-16years in proportion to the wizarding total) - I assume that Hogwarts trains all wizarding-kind in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but not in Scotland or the Republic of Ireland (unless somebody whack me over the head with an explisit statement from Dr. Rowling indicating otherwise.) - I assume that the number of muggleborn wizards is negated by the number of squibs born by wizards. Results: The Scottish source indicated that 4.47% of the wizarding population would be of Hogwarts-age. The Norwegian source, on the other hand, yielded 4.8%. This seems to indicate that if you multiply the number of Hogwarts-students by 20, you'll get roughly the number of wizards residing in Great Britain. The more excact results from my sources: Scottish data: #Students #Wizards/witches 280. . . . . . 6 259 300. . . . . . 6 706 500. . . . . .11 177 800. . . . . .17 884 1000 . . . . .22 354 1200 . . . . .26 825 Norwegian data: #Students #Wizards/witches 280. . . . . . 5 813 300. . . . . . 6 228 500. . . . . .10 380 800. . . . . .16 608 1000 . . . . .20 760 1200 . . . . .24 912 As per my assumptions above, this would be for a population of 48 000 000 muggles and wizards/witches. Norway, consequently, would have a magic population of between 560 and 2 350 wizards/witches, while Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Iceland together would have between 2 350 and 9 800 wizards/witches, roughly. USA would have between 30 000 and 120 000 wizards/withces. This is all assuming an identical distribution of magic ability in the populations. One possibly major source of error: These data are recent, from periods of staedy and slow development in the populations of both Scotland and Norway. I would however be more comfortable using data from the decade just after WWII, from Norway or another country occupied by Germany during WWII, as the population of those countries seem to have seen the conditions most similar to the situation when Voldemort reigned. With this I mean the war is present in one's own country, there are killings in the neighbourhood, your next-door neighbour might be a spy for Voldemort, etc. This is a somewhat different situation from that in which Britain and USA found themselves in WWII. Czechoslovakia or France might be a good comparison? Statistics from that period are hard to come by, though. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Oct 20 13:04:40 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:04:40 -0400 Subject: NEXT BOOK TITLE References: <39ECCBFB.99790194@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F042E8.FF1F6F7C@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4137 from the today show this morning - HARRY POTTER & THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 14:05:36 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:05:36 -0500 Subject: Harry Potter and the......... References: <20001020125705.21798.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000e01c03a9e$d78c16e0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4138 S p o i l e r ! * * * * * * * * * Book 5's Name is out! Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix! Now, what will our group make of that? I did like her "Jane" comment, and there were a few interested items, but most of the questions were "why did you write ..." "What book is your favorite?" (4) , More on the pronunciation factor of the names, and other familiar questions.... :) Ok, at least we got something new to discuss! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Stub? To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:57 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] How many wizards... While I am waiting for fanfiction.net to get back online, I am crunching some numbers on a spreadsheet. In the discussion here following Dr. Rowling's statement that Hogwarts has 1000 students, someone mentioned that the student-number also reflected the number of wizards living in Britain. I thought it would be interesting to see if I could deduct how many there are, and so I unearthed some demographical statistics from www.ssb.no (the Norwegian Bureau of Statistics) and http://wood.ccta.gov.uk/grosweb/grosweb.nsf (General Registry Office of Scotland), and used these to calculate how large a segment of the population would be in the relative agegroup equal to enrollment at Hogwarts, comparing results from the two sources. I could not find any datasources for Britain as a whole. I tried searching the National Statistics Website, http://www.statistics.gov.uk/, but I found nothing helpful. The sources are current or recent data, from the period 1998-2000. I had to make some assumptions. - I assume that the life-expectancy of a wizard is twice that of a muggle. - I assume that the period of fertility is likewise lengthened. - I assume that the demographic distribution agewise is similar, but adjusted with a factor of two (i.e., the segment of the muggle-population aged 7-8 years in proportion of the muggle-total old is equal to the segment of the wizarding population aged 14-16years in proportion to the wizarding total) - I assume that Hogwarts trains all wizarding-kind in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but not in Scotland or the Republic of Ireland (unless somebody whack me over the head with an explisit statement from Dr. Rowling indicating otherwise.) - I assume that the number of muggleborn wizards is negated by the number of squibs born by wizards. Results: The Scottish source indicated that 4.47% of the wizarding population would be of Hogwarts-age. The Norwegian source, on the other hand, yielded 4.8%. This seems to indicate that if you multiply the number of Hogwarts-students by 20, you'll get roughly the number of wizards residing in Great Britain. The more excact results from my sources: Scottish data: #Students #Wizards/witches 280. . . . . . 6 259 300. . . . . . 6 706 500. . . . . .11 177 800. . . . . .17 884 1000 . . . . .22 354 1200 . . . . .26 825 Norwegian data: #Students #Wizards/witches 280. . . . . . 5 813 300. . . . . . 6 228 500. . . . . .10 380 800. . . . . .16 608 1000 . . . . .20 760 1200 . . . . .24 912 As per my assumptions above, this would be for a population of 48 000 000 muggles and wizards/witches. Norway, consequently, would have a magic population of between 560 and 2 350 wizards/witches, while Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Iceland together would have between 2 350 and 9 800 wizards/witches, roughly. USA would have between 30 000 and 120 000 wizards/withces. This is all assuming an identical distribution of magic ability in the populations. One possibly major source of error: These data are recent, from periods of staedy and slow development in the populations of both Scotland and Norway. I would however be more comfortable using data from the decade just after WWII, from Norway or another country occupied by Germany during WWII, as the population of those countries seem to have seen the conditions most similar to the situation when Voldemort reigned. With this I mean the war is present in one's own country, there are killings in the neighbourhood, your next-door neighbour might be a spy for Voldemort, etc. This is a somewhat different situation from that in which Britain and USA found themselves in WWII. Czechoslovakia or France might be a good comparison? Statistics from that period are hard to come by, though. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F? din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p? http://mail.yahoo.no eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Oct 20 13:28:51 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:28:51 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter and the......... Message-ID: <20001020132851.1775.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4139 This comes whence? An American TV-programme? Chat? Is a transcript or similar available? --- Denise Rogers skrev: > S > p > o > i > l > e > r > ! > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > Book 5's Name is out! Harry Potter and the Order of > the Phoenix! > > Now, what will our group make of that? I did like > her "Jane" comment, and there were a few interested > items, but most of the questions were "why did you > write ..." "What book is your favorite?" (4) , More > on the pronunciation factor of the names, and other > familiar questions.... > > :) > > > Ok, at least we got something new to discuss! > Dee _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 13:28:48 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:28:48 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a few more questions for JKR References: <8sns6k+uf74@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007f01c03a99$b9b79f40$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4140 Scott, > Okay sorry to bother you but I thought of a few more questions to > ask... > > 1)Where did you get the Idea for Harry Potter? > > 2)What was the first thing you ever wrote? > > 3)How do you pronounce Hermione? > > 4)What are you favourite books? > > 6)Did you always want to be a writer? > > 7)When is the Movie coming out? Pray thoroughly. Smoke a cigarette if you like. You will be shot at dawn. MoF hit wizards have been given your ISP with information provided by profilers from the HP4GU. ;-) Good spoof! You really through me for a loop there until I saw the rest of the message! BTW, I'll try slipping into the chat tonight--my Aberforths_Goat handle could put me up high on the priority list if its arranged alphabetically. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 20 14:15:18 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:15:18 -0000 Subject: Another Question that was heated at one time Message-ID: <8spk1m+j4po@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4141 Remember when list members quarrelled over whether Hagrid's wand REALLY was snapped? I suppose no one still cares, or it would have been suggested as a ? for JKR chat. From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 20 14:28:20 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:28:20 -0500 Subject: B&N Chat Message-ID: <39F05683.C9766F32@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4142 Hi -- Thanks to Joywitch for posting the guidelines -- see, I knew that B&N rep was wrong when she told me we could submit questions ahead of time (she just meant 30 minutes ahead of time). We have 4 volunteers (including me) to post questions during that 30 minute time period so . . . here's how we should break it up: 1-11 Penny 12-22 Carole 23-33 Heidi 34 - 43 Kelley Kelley, could you please fix my math for Question 37 on the exchange rate (to say I'm not a math person is *such* an understatement)? The US $ figures are correct; the pounds figures are the ones that are wrong. I was using 1.6 as the exchange rate as that's what it was at when we visited the UK in April -- we can shift it to 1.45 if that's more correct for now. In that case, I *think* it should be 3.44 lbs (sorry, no sign in this email program)$5 --- 17.2 lbs/$25. Is *that* right? If not -- please just correct me. After the AOL chat last night & the Today Show this morning, I'm not sure I hold out much hope that many (or any) of our questions will get answered. But, it doesn't hurt to try. Even if we get 1-2 answers, it will be worth it I suppose. I think she's taking only really softball questions though, which is a shame. We're not asking for plot revelations; we just want some inconsistencies & mysteries cleared up. Oh well. Carole, Heidi & Kelley -- let us know if you've had a conflict come up & you can't submit the questions. Penny From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Oct 20 14:50:12 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:50:12 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] B&N Chat Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4143 Penny, I am another volunteer to ask questions if you need one. Thanks and, Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* Quidditch is life ... the rest is just details. From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 20 15:23:18 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:23:18 -0500 Subject: Book 5 Title; Birthdays Message-ID: <39F06366.3EB8546D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4144 Hi -- Just thought I should mention that JKR said there is another title also being considered (other than HP & the Order of the Phoenix). I like the Order of the Phoenix though. Phoenixes are such an important motif in the stories so far. "Order of" -- I wonder if that's an honor/award (along the lines of Order of Merlin or Order of the British Empire). Happy Birthday to Voicelady!! Does anyone more computer literate than myself want to try & create a calendar that could be posted in the Files area, where we can record member birthdays (and HP-related birthdays such as 31 July & 19 September)? That could be fun. My birthday is also coming up soon . . . . Penny From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 15:29:18 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:29:18 +0100 Subject: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020152918.008d613c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4145 Christian wrote: >>>I assume that Hogwarts trains all wizarding-kind in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but not in >>>Scotland or the Republic of Ireland (unless somebody whack me over the head with an explisit statement from >>>Dr. Rowling indicating otherwise.) Why exclude Scotland? Scotland is part of Britain, and, more to the point, the consensus is that Hogwarts is located there. I'm impressed by your analysis though, Christian: ye gods, it's almost a thesis! Most people doodle while they wait for something, but you calculate the wizarding population of Britain. I'll leave it to Simon - or another Maths whiz - to comment on the accuracy of the figures. Voicelady said: >>>I'm starting to wonder if maybe Snape was in love with James, rather than Lily - as has already been put >>>forth. Here is Harry, who looks like his dad, as a constant reminder to Snape (who really is a good guy, >>>if not a nice one) that >Harry is the reason that James, the man he loved, is now dead. Interesting thought. His hatred of James may have arisen because his affections were not returned and he knew they never would be. Incidentally, I also like the idea of Snape being a vampire, as several people have suggested previously. Someone - Martha I think it was - posted some evidence for this, and I've just come across another telling snippet from CoS: "A bad idea, Professor Lockhart," said Snape, gliding over like a large and malevolent bat" [during the duelling class]. Martha said: >>>McGonagall was there [on the wall outside Privet Drive] because Hagrid had told her Dumbledore would be >>>there. I think she wanted to hear about all the rumors going around straight from D. I think she did too, but I have this crazy idea that McGonagall wasn't being entirely honest in that first scene with Dumbledore. Dumbledore asks her: "I suppose it was [Hagrid] who told you I'd be here?" and McGonagall says "Yes.." Earlier in the narrative, it says that she "seemed" to have got the point she was anxious to discuss - the real reason she had been sitting on the wall all day, but only "seemed". She does say, "Why here of all places?" but she could have been covering up the fact that she knew exactly where it was, and that she was there for another reason. This is my off-the-wall half-cocked theory about why Minerva was on the wall. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 15:43:40 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:43:40 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 Title; Birthdays Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020154340.008d8fa4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4146 At 10:23 10/20/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hi -- > >Just thought I should mention that JKR said there is another title also >being considered (other than HP & the Order of the Phoenix). I like the >Order of the Phoenix though. Phoenixes are such an important motif in >the stories so far. "Order of" -- I wonder if that's an honor/award >(along the lines of Order of Merlin or Order of the British Empire). When I heard "The Order of the Phoenix" I immediately thought of a religious order or some sort of secret society. My next thought was that Dumbledore was probably a member of the Order of the Phoenix, which is why he has Fawkes. My next thought was that everyone with a wand containing a Phoenix feather is a member of the Order of the Phoenix, and that this is some sort of elite sect; with rival groups such as the Order of the Unicorn. Three thoughts in a row. I'm doing well today. >Happy Birthday to Voicelady!! Does anyone more computer literate than >myself want to try & create a calendar that could be posted in the Files >area, where we can record member birthdays (and HP-related birthdays >such as 31 July & 19 September)? That could be fun. My birthday is >also coming up soon . . . . I'm surprised we don't have a calendar here, like the one we had in Yahoo, which shows how much attention I'm paying. I don't think I'd know where to start creating one here (database facility, I guess), but it would be handy to have the discussion schedules and chats listed there too. That reminds me - what's happening with the merger of Yahoo and eGroups. Any news? Oh, and 'Happy Birthday' from me too, Voicelady. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From karob_7 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 15:52:35 2000 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (Karin ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:52:35 -0000 Subject: Birthdays! Message-ID: <8sppo3+8g7j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4147 Happy Birthday, Voicelady! I added a simple table for birthdays in the Database section. If any of you want to change the format or add to it, you are very welcome to do so. Anyone that wants to can add his or her birthday to the list. Karin From skywalker1 at ibm.net Fri Oct 20 16:02:44 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:02:44 -0000 Subject: Book 5 Title; Birthdays In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001020154340.008d8fa4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8spqb4+fteg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4148 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > > When I heard "The Order of the Phoenix" I immediately thought of a religious > order or some sort of secret society. My next thought was that Dumbledore > was probably a member of the Order of the Phoenix, which is why he has > Fawkes. My next thought was that everyone with a wand containing a Phoenix > feather is a member of the Order of the Phoenix, and that this is some sort > of elite sect; with rival groups such as the Order of the Unicorn. Three > thoughts in a row. I'm doing well today. Very similar to my thoughts when I heard "Order of the Phoenix" except that I thought it might be the name of the group AD puts together to stand against Voldy. And maybe the eternal vigilance that the side of light must maintain to hold off the dark is represented by the Phoenix's immortality (rising from it's ashes). From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 20 16:13:32 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:13:32 -0000 Subject: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001020152918.008d613c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8spqvc+j9g0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4149 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > > Voicelady said: > Incidentally, > I also like the idea of Snape being a vampire, as several people have > suggested previously. Someone - Martha I think it was - posted some > evidence for this, and I've just come across another telling snippet from > CoS: "A bad idea, Professor Lockhart," said Snape, gliding over like a > large and malevolent bat" [during the duelling class]. Good one. I missed it. You have to admit, there sure are a lot of bat references to Snape. Maybe just another anamagi? But if he were a vampire how did he get that way? Well it could just be balderdash, of course. As I have said possibly just another one of my theroies that will be disproved. But it is fun........ > > > > This is my off-the-wall half-cocked theory about why Minerva was on the wall. > > Neil > > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > ***************************************** > > "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, > the car rumbled off into the darkness, > its rear lights blazing angrily" > > [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] > > ***************************************** Dumbledore and Minerva: I just love those two. It does seem strange that McGonagall was there all day. But Dumbledore was really not that surprised to see her. I have always found it strange that she asked him how he knew it was her? (After changing from cat to Professor). Has Dumbledore never seen her in her cat form? After all those years? It will be fun after the 7th book to start reading from book one again and be able to understand so much more. JKR has really done such a great job putting all these little details in each of the books that really mean something and we just don't know it yet. Martha An extremely busy woman these days. As the saying goes, "A woman's work is never done". What an understatement! From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 16:15:35 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:15:35 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand question/Comments on AOL chat Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020161535.008bc8d4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4150 Catlady wrote: >Remember when list members quarrelled over whether Hagrid's wand >REALLY was snapped? I suppose no one still cares, or it would have >been suggested as a ? for JKR chat. Since you mention that furore, we haven't heard from young Nicholas for ages (are you lurking here Nicholas?). He was a fervent, if not the only, supporter of the 'Hagrid's wand was not snapped' theory and tried to enlist me to support his argument. I sort of agreed with him, after a fashion, I think. General points on the chat interviews: When I looked at those AOL chat answers, I noticed that JKR didn't really answer anything much about the future books, apart from the one about the female DADA teacher. Anything that might have given away a big secret got one of those "wait and see" or "not answering that" responses, but she felt guilty enough to respond on the DADA question, so an onslaught of really probing questions might come up trumps once at least! I was laughing all the way through at the people in the chat room, most of whom appeared to be kids (it's hard to tell really, as evidenced by our own chat room). They came across like a gaggle of inquisitive gnomes, chuckling and nodding away to themselves between each Q&A, exchanging inane comments and prodding JKR (cybernetically speaking) with their bony little fingers. *Sincere* apologies if any of you were part of this, but I think you know what I mean. I was rolling on the floor...almost (reserved Englishman, don't forget). I'm assuming JKR didn't see all that prattle? I'm torn with these things. On the one hand, I don't want to know too many secrets about future HP books, but on the other hand (and knowing she's not likely to reveal anything too major), I'm curious and I like to see how she responds to questions. We can learn things from non-answers as well as answers. It would be great to have an adult session with her - I notice that someone framed that as a question: really good idea. Penny/Melanie - an admin point: Shouldn't we have spoilers on discussion of chat responses posted here? I don't know how you feel about this, but giving away information in message titles (as someone did on the DADA teacher) doesn't allow those who don't want to know to screen them out. Perhaps spoilers will be too annoying though...? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 20 16:16:30 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:16:30 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter and the......... In-Reply-To: <000e01c03a9e$d78c16e0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8spr4u+man5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4151 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > S > p > o > i > l > e > r > ! > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > * > Book 5's Name is out! Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix! > > Now, what will our group make of that? I did like her "Jane" comment, and there were a few interested items, but most of the questions were "why did you write ..." "What book is your favorite?" (4) , More on the pronunciation factor of the names, and other familiar questions.... What was the "Jane" comment? Martha > > > > From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 20 16:26:50 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:26:50 -0000 Subject: Book 5 Title; Birthdays In-Reply-To: <8spqb4+fteg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sproa+doqn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4152 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Brian " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > > > > When I heard "The Order of the Phoenix" I immediately thought of a > religious > > order or some sort of secret society. My next thought was that > Dumbledore > > was probably a member of the Order of the Phoenix, which is why he > has > > Fawkes. My next thought was that everyone with a wand containing a > Phoenix > > feather is a member of the Order of the Phoenix, and that this is > some sort > > of elite sect; with rival groups such as the Order of the Unicorn. > Three > > thoughts in a row. I'm doing well today. > > Very similar to my thoughts when I heard "Order of the Phoenix" > except that I thought it might be the name of the group AD puts > together to stand against Voldy. And maybe the eternal vigilance > that the side of light must maintain to hold off the dark is > represented by the Phoenix's immortality (rising from it's ashes). Yeah! I like the thought of the "Order of the Phoenix" being the name of the group to stand against Voldemort. But I will have to think about that some more. Speaking of the Phoenix, someone mentioned to me that maybe the reason Dumbledore is so sure of Snape's loyalty is that Fawkes came to Snape's aid one time. As Dumbledore says to Harry in Book 2, "You must have shown me real loyalty down in the Chamber. Nothing but that could have called Fawkes to you". That might be far-fetched but just another thing to pass on. Martha From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 16:46:28 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:46:28 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mysteries of McGonagall Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020164628.008e9d94@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4153 I have always found it strange that she asked him how he knew it was her? (After changing from cat to >Professor). Has Dumbledore never seen her in her cat form? After all those years? Yes, I agree. I posted something on that very point ages ago. Is Dumbledore *that* lacking in observation? Perhaps he left that knowledge in his Pensieve and forgot to put it back in his head. I'd always assumed that Minerva taught herself to become an Animagus... BTW, I looked up Magus in the dictionary and the word is from Greek 'magos' or Persian 'magus', so perhaps it is a unisex term. It's a difficult one, because Magus refers to a wise man (perhaps there's a completely different term for a wise woman - Catlady will probably know). If it had Latin origin, I would agree that Animaga was correct. I still think it sounds like a Japanese monster though. ... back at the ranch, I was talking about Minerva McGonagall. I thought she probably decided to become an animag-whatever when she first got the job of Transfiguration teacher (does she say anything on this? I can't remember). I imagine that as a young woman she was a lot like Hermione and would not do things by halves. She would have felt an obligation to become an Animagus so that she could demonstrate the ultimate in Transfiguration to her students. I also propose the idea that women who choose this are subsequently unable to bear children: Did MM give up motherhood so that she could pursue her vocation? Was there another, more significant reason she chose to do this? Was she appointed to Hogwarts *because* she was an Animagus? The fact that McGonagall becomes a cat suggests that she has the sort of aloof independence that cats demonstrate. Everyone knows that cats own people, not the other way round. She may be loyal to Dumbledore in human form, but she probably has her own agenda in cat form. Who knows whose dustbins and catflaps she might frequent of a night? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 16:41:52 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:41:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a few more questions for JKR References: <8sns6k+uf74@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F075CF.E9511FEE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4154 Okay, everyone, aim at Scott and on the count of three..... --Amanda Scott wrote: > Okay sorry to bother you but I thought of a few more questions to > ask... > > 1)Where did you get the Idea for Harry Potter? > > 2)What was the first thing you ever wrote? > > 3)How do you pronounce Hermione? > > 4)What are you favourite books? > > 6)Did you always want to be a writer? > > 7)When is the Movie coming out? > > JUST KIDDING! > > Argh! If I have to read those anymore....and imagine being JKR!!! > Now here are a few more real questions for JKR...err at least one of > them is a worth while question.... > > 1) If Hogwarts serves the the United Kingdom and Ireland then why > didn't we ever hear about the Hogwarts Quidditch careers of the > players who are on the Irish national team, and not just the talent > of Charlie Weasely in PoA? > > (I think the above needs rephrasing but is essentially a good > question...Penny maybe you can help) > > another (silly) question that I was pondering while having my hair > cut... > > Where do Hogwarts students get there hair cut, or is there a simple > spell to remedy this? > > (I'm NOT saying that I think we should ask JKR this, however) > > Also how can I submit my questions tomorrow morning as I will not be > here for the chat??? > > Scott > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 16:43:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:43:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A couple of things: References: <8snssp+8lb6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F0762E.B3B7A743@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4155 voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > And finally, wish me a happy birthday tomorrow. Woo hoo! Come clean, voicelady....what's the damage? --Amanda (actual mileage may vary) From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 16:59:03 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 Title; Birthdays Message-ID: <20001020165903.13915.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4156 --- Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Happy Birthday to Voicelady!! Does anyone more computer literate than > myself want to try & create a calendar that could be posted in the Files > area, where we can record member birthdays (and HP-related birthdays > such as 31 July & 19 September)? That could be fun. My birthday is > also coming up soon . . . . > > Penny I can do that (if you haven't had any volunteers yet). I'll start by putting the birthdays I know (JKR/Harry's, Hermione's, mine, and Voicelady's) into our calendar from eGroups. Anyone else who would like their birthdays listed, e-mail me privately at: mailto:ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Great idea. Melanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Oct 20 17:09:24 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 20 Oct 2000 10:09:24 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A couple of things: Message-ID: <20001020170924.21534.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4157 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 17:11:41 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:11:41 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP 5 out within two years???? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020171141.008f8970@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4158 At 23:16 10/19/2000 -0000, Brian wrote: >>>Today's USA Today had an article in the Life section quoting JKR >>>as saying the next Harry Potter book will be out "within" two >>>years!!! She goes on to say that it is "not too far along ... It will >>>be ready when it's ready". >>>I'm sorry if I'm repeating old news but I hadn't heard this >>>mentioned anywhere before. I can't imagine waiting another 2 years. That would be sheer torture! We'd have absolutely nothing to talk about. I checked out Ceefax (the BBC's on-screen information system) the other day, and one of the rolling headlines was "THERE WILL BE TWO MORE POTTER BOOKS". I nearly had heart failure until I realised it was a reference to the spin-off books JKR is writing for Comic Relief. For about, oh, 19 seconds, I thought she'd decided it was all too much and decided to skip a book. Comic Relief is usually one of those all-dayer Telethon events, so I guess we can look forward to some appearances by Ms Rowling. Apart from the event raising millions for developing countries, it's also a day when everyone is supposed to walk round wearing a plastic red nose, or some variation on it. I have a problem with that, as red clashes with my alabaster complexion. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Oct 20 17:12:09 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:12:09 -0000 Subject: order of the phoenix Message-ID: <8spud9+b4bm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4159 rian wrote > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > > > > When I heard "The Order of the Phoenix" I immediately thought of a > religious > > order or some sort of secret society. My next thought was that > Dumbledore > > was probably a member of the Order of the Phoenix, which is why he > has > > Fawkes. My next thought was that everyone with a wand containing a > Phoenix > > feather is a member of the Order of the Phoenix, and that this is > some sort > > of elite sect; with rival groups such as the Order of the Unicorn. > Three > > thoughts in a row. I'm doing well today. > > Very similar to my thoughts when I heard "Order of the Phoenix" > except that I thought it might be the name of the group AD puts > together to stand against Voldy. And maybe the eternal vigilance > that the side of light must maintain to hold off the dark is > represented by the Phoenix's immortality (rising from it's ashes). > > And I immediately thought of Lori Summers' Paradigm of Uncertainty, where there is a Society of the Scythe, of which Dumbledore is a member, who study magical powers, and have a particular interest in Harry. From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 20 17:21:28 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:21:28 -0000 Subject: What that book title might also refer to In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001020154340.008d8fa4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8spuuo+5trp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4160 s p o i l e r s p a c e Re: The "Order" of the Phoenix Of course, it means order as in a religious order or the Order of Merlin 1/c, that sort of thing. Or maybe, just maybe, it refers to the order of spells coming out of a phoenix-feather-equiped wand caught in Priori Incantatem... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Fri Oct 20 17:32:06 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:32:06 +0100 Subject: HP & CHildren's Literature Conference Message-ID: <011a01c03abb$abb47680$6775883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4161 Today I had the good fortune to attend the Institute of Education's (part of Uni of London) Children's Literature Conference. It was fantastic and I've had a brilliant day. The only problem was most of the speakers were so good I forgot to take notes. Now to the point the first speaker mentioned Harry Potter just a few times. She credited JKR with having dramatically raised the profile of childrens books and attributed the rise in reviews of Children's Lit in the broadsheets to HP. She also added that the change GoF caused in children's reading patterns was nothing short of amazing. Competing with each other to see who had read it in the shortest time. She didn't name her source but apparently the amount of time children spent reading in the two weeks after publication of GoF increased tenfold. Apparently this is an international figure. I imagine it was collated from UK and US data ( although she didn't say) as the Aussie and NZ release dates were later. Although I suppose there has been enough time for them to have included their data too. IIRC non English translations are only just making their way onto the market. I know we know most of this already but its nice to have it confirmed by the educational establishment. BTW if you can wangle it the conference was so good I'd recommend it to anyone. Sadly if you aren't an IoE student it is 60 but they do throw in a decent lunch. Or some I'm told being merely a PGCE student I got sandwiches I made earlier, but then on the plus side I didn't pay to go. NB: If anyone is really interested I'll mail them a copy of my notes when I get them typed up. Don't hold your breath as it might take me a while. Heather. From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 17:30:15 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:30:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand question/Comments on AOL chat References: <1.5.4.32.20001020161535.008bc8d4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F08127.CCF8B7A0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4162 Good heavens, Neil, are you a reserved Englishman? I'll have to change my mental image.... --Amanda (reserved American, who fondly remembers back to the days when she was still taking reservations) feeling old, if loopy From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 17:42:29 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:42:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mysteries of McGonagall References: <1.5.4.32.20001020164628.008e9d94@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F08404.F35C6E1F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4163 Neil Ward wrote: > I have always found it strange that she asked him how he knew it was her? > (After changing from cat to > >Professor). Has Dumbledore never seen her in her cat form? After all > those years? > > Yes, I agree. I posted something on that very point ages ago. Is Dumbledore > *that* lacking in observation? Perhaps he left that knowledge in his > Pensieve and forgot to put it back in his head. Even odder, considering he was the Transfiguration teacher prior to his headmastership. --Amanda From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Oct 20 17:48:19 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:48:19 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall Message-ID: <20001020174819.9144.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4164 I cannot remember excactly where I heard it first, but I have this memory impressed in my brain from somewhere that Rowling said Scotland was treated separately. I may be wrong, though. I find it entire plausible, though, as Scotland has parts of its government and, I believe, educational system separate from the of the rest of Britain. This is also true for the authorities charged with administering the use of heraldry. Scotland is a separate kingdom, after all. I am uncertain about how Ireland would be treated - that Seamus Finnigan is at Hogwarts suggests that before Irish independence, at least, all of Ireland was under Hogwarts, but that may have changed now. Out of curiosity, Neil, (based on an exclamation you used) - do you read Katharine Kerr? --- Neil Ward skrev: > Christian wrote: > > >>>I assume that Hogwarts trains all wizarding-kind > in England, Wales and > Northern Ireland, but not in > >>>Scotland or the Republic of Ireland (unless > somebody whack me over the > head with an explisit statement from > >>>Dr. Rowling indicating otherwise.) > > Why exclude Scotland? Scotland is part of Britain, > and, more to the point, > the consensus is that Hogwarts is located there. > I'm impressed by your > analysis though, Christian: ye gods, it's almost a > thesis! Most people > doodle while they wait for something, but you > calculate the wizarding > population of Britain. I'll leave it to Simon - or > another Maths whiz - to > comment on the accuracy of the figures. > > Voicelady said: > > >>>I'm starting to wonder if maybe Snape was in love > with James, rather than > Lily - as has already been put >>>forth. Here is > Harry, who looks like his > dad, as a constant reminder to Snape (who really is > a good guy, >>>if not a > nice one) that >Harry is the reason that James, the > man he loved, is now dead. > > Interesting thought. His hatred of James may have > arisen because his > affections were not returned and he knew they never > would be. Incidentally, > I also like the idea of Snape being a vampire, as > several people have > suggested previously. Someone - Martha I think it > was - posted some > evidence for this, and I've just come across another > telling snippet from > CoS: "A bad idea, Professor Lockhart," said Snape, > gliding over like a > large and malevolent bat" [during the duelling > class]. > > Martha said: > > >>>McGonagall was there [on the wall outside Privet > Drive] because Hagrid > had told her Dumbledore would be >>>there. I think > she wanted to hear about > all the rumors going around straight from D. > > I think she did too, but I have this crazy idea that > McGonagall wasn't being > entirely honest in that first scene with Dumbledore. > Dumbledore asks her: > "I suppose it was [Hagrid] who told you I'd be > here?" and McGonagall says > "Yes.." Earlier in the narrative, it says that she > "seemed" to have got the > point she was anxious to discuss - the real reason > she had been sitting on > the wall all day, but only "seemed". She does say, > "Why here of all > places?" but she could have been covering up the > fact that she knew exactly > where it was, and that she was there for another > reason. > > This is my off-the-wall half-cocked theory about why > Minerva was on the wall. > > Neil > > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > ***************************************** > > "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, > the car rumbled off into the darkness, > its rear lights blazing angrily" > > [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] > > ***************************************** > > > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 17:45:13 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:45:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A couple of things: References: <20001020170924.21534.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <39F084A9.E9A9F087@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4165 voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > 36. But I pass for early 20's. Me too! The 36 part, at any rate. I get so flustered when checkers call me "ma'am" that I forget to ask how old they think I am.... Happy Birthday! Your next cubed birthday won't be for 13 years, so enjoy it! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 17:50:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:50:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP 5 out within two years???? References: <1.5.4.32.20001020171141.008f8970@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F085ED.A6A3DA3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4166 Neil Ward wrote: > That would be sheer torture! We'd have absolutely nothing to talk about. Yeah, we seem to be having *so* much trouble already. --Amanda From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 20 17:52:59 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:52:59 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter and the......... In-Reply-To: <8spr4u+man5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sq0pr+6770@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4167 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" > wrote: > > S > > p > > o > > i > > l > > e > > r > > ! > > * > > * > > * > > * > > * > > * > > * > > * > > * > > Book 5's Name is out! Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix! > > > > Now, what will our group make of that? I did like her "Jane" > comment, and there were a few interested items, but most of the > questions were "why did you write ..." "What book is your favorite?" > (4) , More on the pronunciation factor of the names, and other > familiar questions.... > > > What was the "Jane" comment? > > Martha > > All of this information comes from the "Today" show. (For the non-US group members, "Today" is a morning news/talk show in the US.) They did a nice segment with Rowling. First she was asked some of the e- mail questions by the interviewer. Next, there was a segment where Jim Dale, the voice on the audiotape versions, read a bit from GoF. (This was a treat for me since I don't own the audiotapes!) Then she took some questions from the children in the audience. The "Jane" comment was in response to the pronounciation of 'Hermione'. She said something to the effect that if she had known there would be pronounciation problems she would have called her 'Jane'. She also revealed that she borrowed the name from a Shakespeare character in "A Winter's Tale". A girl in the audience asked her the title for book 5. Rowling was prodded on by the co-hosts of the "Today" show. Hesistantly, she said that she didn't think she should say because she did the last time and it was talked up alot online. She went on to say that she was thinking of 2 titles. Then uneasily, she gave the title printed here in egroups. Furthermore, Rowling said she was still writing book 5 and hasn't finished much of it. And she repeated that it will be out when she's finished writing it. :-) Milz From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 18:12:22 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:12:22 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020181222.008fa1b4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4168 At 19:48 10/20/2000 +0200, Christian wrote: >>I cannot remember excactly where I heard it first, but >>I have this memory impressed in my brain from >>somewhere that Rowling said Scotland was treated >>separately. I may be wrong, though. I find it entire >>plausible, though, as Scotland has parts of its >>government and, I believe, educational system separate >>from the of the rest of Britain. I think you may have misinterpreted what she said, Christian - can you dredge up the source? Scotland has a separate parliament now, but it didn't in the period in which these books are set. It does indeed have a different educational system to that of England and Wales and that would have been the case then; perhaps JKR was referring to this situation in the real world (yes, that again) rather than that in the wizarding world? I think JKR has said that Hogwarts is the only wizarding school in the UK, and that certainly includes Scotland. Since she lives in Edinburgh, I think it would be a bit bizarre for JKR to write about a school for students from England, Wales and Northern Ireland and never mention an implied Scottish school. We don't know it, but I'd lay money on the fact that Hogwarts is located in Scotland. Nick, Penny and others posted loads on this. I thought Edinburgh Castle looked like my vision of Hogwarts. >>This is also true for the authorities charged with administering the use >>of heraldry. Scotland is a separate kingdom, after all. Scotland is not a separate kingdom, it's part of the United Kingdom. If it were still a separate kingdom it would have a different monarch and the Queen would not be able to kick her heels and her Corgis at her favourite hangout, Balmoral Castle. >>>Out of curiosity, Neil, (based on an exclamation you used) - do you read Katharine Kerr? No. Perhaps she reads me? Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 18:34:49 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:34:49 -0500 Subject: So far at yahoo Message-ID: <39F09049.EF0A81ED@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4169 Riddle was slandering Hagrid about the werewolf cubs. Flitwick is the head of Ravenclaw --Amanda From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Oct 20 18:43:35 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 20 Oct 2000 18:43:35 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972067415.67131@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4170 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /hpaolchat.doc Uploaded by : Schlobin at aol.com Description : oct2000aolchat You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/hpaolchat%2Edoc To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, Schlobin at aol.com From sarah.negretti at imperbel.com Fri Oct 20 18:44:21 2000 From: sarah.negretti at imperbel.com (sarah.negretti at imperbel.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:44:21 -0000 Subject: So far at yahoo In-Reply-To: <39F09049.EF0A81ED@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sq3q5+c9m6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4171 Also... Hagrid was in Gryff. and something IS 'going on' between Ron and Hermione only Ron "typical boy" doesn't know yet. -Sarah (back to lurk mode) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 18:50:51 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:50:51 +0100 Subject: Scotland [sorry]/Clothing Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020185051.008a7a60@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4172 Sorry folks - that earlier reply to Christian should have been labelled "Scotland". Please feel free to tell me off in capital letters. I have a question now about clothing. There has been a lot of discussion about school uniforms recently (I haven't read all of it yet, so shoot me if I repeat something) and, I guess, what the children wear under their robes. I was wondering where the children get their regular clothes from and what they are like? Harry, as far as we know, is still in Dudley's old clothes. Does he wear trainers or shoes? If so, I guess they would be cheap and horrible. Hermione, Daughter of Dentists, would be well-dressed, I suppose. Would she wear the latest Nike trainers or would she have to wear a regulation pair of bespoke, witch-style hobnailed boots, purchased at Diagon Alley's little known "Blister & Hobble's Shoe Emporium"? (which also sells socks, naturally). But the children who hardly know the Muggle world - what on earth would they wear? Would Ron even know what Nikes or Reeboks were? He was puzzled enough by a 50p piece. Would Molly ride her broomstick up to London and visit "Nike Town" in an ill-fitting, outmoded sun dress to look for the latest pairs for her kids? (well, no, too expensive) Or would she buy odd-looking knickerbockers and high-collared shirts and cobbled shoes in Hogsmeade High Street? Any thoughts? I was thinking about the comments Dennis and I made just after his trip to London (when we looked for Diagon Alley). We thought the odd witch or wizard or Hagrid might merge with the crowds because of all the theatres in the area. Actors always dress for attention, so a person in an emerald cloak would not create a stir. However, the other day, I was queuing for the London Eye (the Millennium ferris wheel on the Thames) and right in front of us was a group of hasidic jews in the full regalia - the men in black coats, white stockings, hats, skull caps, ringlets - the lot; the women wearing wigs and hairnets and carrying babies. Funnily enough, they didn't blend into the crowd at all and I thought "wizards and witches probably would look really out of place in the Muggle world". Incidentally, one of my less-orthodix Jewish friends thought it was odd that these people were even visiting the Eye, since it would be viewed as a frivolous thing to do. She didn't stand in the queue for an hour though... I'm just trying to imagine Fudge visiting the Muggle Prime Minister, or a similar scenario. What would he wear, for example? It seemed such a big deal for Arthur to put his World Cup outfit together, I get the impression that wearing Muggle clothes is quite a rare requirement for most of the characters we've seen. Neil: Shut up! FFA: OK. Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 18:47:50 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:47:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scotland [sorry]/Clothing References: <1.5.4.32.20001020185051.008a7a60@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F09355.70F9927A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4173 Neil Ward wrote: > Sorry folks - that earlier reply to Christian should have been labelled > "Scotland". Please feel free to tell me off in capital letters. OFF ....? --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 20 18:58:11 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:58:11 -0000 Subject: *whew* All this new information... In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001020185051.008a7a60@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8sq4k3+c9ti@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4174 I dunno about everyone else, but being as I am a fanatic detail recorder (hence the Lexicon!) and at the same time being required to actually perform my day job (librarian) and my night job (resident director for a theater), I am beginning to go a little crazy here. I'm losing track of what new tidbits we're learning and getting desperate to get them all entered on the correct pages of the Lexicon before someone does a search on Hermione's name and emails me indignatly that her birthday is the *19th* of September, darn it, get it right... Oh the joys and sorrows of being obsessed... Steve "Pretending to work" Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Fri Oct 20 19:00:02 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:00:02 -0000 Subject: B&N chat - points of interest Message-ID: <8sq4ni+1g33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4175 Here are the most interesting points from the B&N chat, heavily edited. Quotation marks for direct quotes. What would you see in the Mirror of Erised? -'I would probably see my mother, who died in 1990.' Does Hagrid get a wife? -'you think anyone would want to live with a man who breeds Blast- Ended Skrewts?' -Susan Bones' grandparents were killed by Voldemort. -the werewolves under Hagrid's bed were slander by Voldemort. -she doesn't know what breed Padfoot is. He's 'a large, bear-like mongrel.' -we'll find out about Percy in book 5, whether he'll support his family or Fudge. -Dumbledore believes there are all sorts of lessons in life, and horrible teachers like Snape are one of them, hence he doesn't stop Snape from being nasty to the students. -she doesn't know any real witches! -Harry doesn't play a musical instrument. -She 'can't say she was delighted' by the NYT decision about their bestseller lists. What house was Hagrid in? -'Hagrid was in Gryffindor, naturally.' -'Avadra kedavra' does have a meaning and she didn't tell it. Does Arabella Figg have an important role in the later books. -'You'll be seeing Mrs Figg in Book 5 and you'll find out all about her.' I would say this is confirmation that Arabella Figg is the same Mrs Figg. Although I must bear in mind that she likes having characters with the same name... -Flitwick is the head of Ravenclaw. -she can't tell us whether Sirius will ever be cleared. -One of the ingredients for Sherbert Balls will be in 'Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them' and it might put you off eating them! -she's a very secretive writer. (no, really?) -she's not telling us why it's called 'Order of the Phoenix.' (see above!) -she's not telling about the look of triumph either. Will Ron ever get a girlfriend? -'I'm laughing again - why wouldn't he?' -she warned us to 'keep an eye' on Snape. -the real Moody will be back. Did Harry ever use magic on Dudley in the real world? -'Not so far (hint).' And that was it. Not many of our questions got answered (but one of the ones I submitted did, so I'm chuffed). Now for the analysis! -Blaise From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 18:58:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:58:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall References: <1.5.4.32.20001020181222.008fa1b4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F095C6.D05CB79B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4176 Neil Ward wrote: > >>This is also true for the authorities charged with administering the use > >>of heraldry. Scotland is a separate kingdom, after all. > > Scotland is not a separate kingdom, it's part of the United Kingdom. But the heraldic colleges are administered separately. Lord Lyon, King of Arms, is the head of the Scottish College of Arms, and is an actual legal official. I forget his title, but the head of the British College is a different person and is not a legal personage. You can actually research cases from the court of Lord Lyon off law search engines. --Amanda From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 19:02:07 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:02:07 -0000 Subject: highlights of the B&N chat Message-ID: <8sq4rf+hf9a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4177 Hagrid was in Gryffindor It is not true about Hagrid raising werewolf pups under his bed, just slander from Riddle Susan Bones' grandparents were killed by Voldemort JKR has read some fanfic Professor Flitwick is the head of Ravenclaw There is/were/will be no character named Icicle ? just a rumor There is "something" between Ron and Hermione but Ron doesn't realize it yet. The real Moody will be back. In answer to the question of whether Harry ever uses magic on Dudley she replied "Not so far (hint)." Her answer to the question of whether she enjoys writing the books was: "I have more enjoyment in writing them than anyone could have reading them." (Not new information, but I thought it was touching.) She had several uncomplimentary (and well-deserved, IMHO) things to say about the religious right-wingers who try to ban HP. Colonel Fubster is not a wizard. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 20 19:03:04 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:03:04 -0000 Subject: So far at yahoo In-Reply-To: <8sq3q5+c9m6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sq4t8+76ap@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4178 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, sarah.negretti at i... wrote: > Also... > Hagrid was in Gryff. > > and something IS 'going on' between Ron and Hermione only Ron > "typical boy" doesn't know yet. > > > -Sarah > (back to lurk mode) S p o i l e r s 1. The Real Moody will show up in a future book. 2. Rowling has written "Quidditch Through the Ages" and "magical Beast and where to find them" and they will be on sale in the US in limited quantities. Proceeds will go to charity. 3. Here's an interesting Q & A; "Did Harry ever use magic on Dudley in the real world?" "Not so far (hint)" :-) Milz From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 19:07:52 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] *whew* All this new information... Message-ID: <20001020190752.5859.qmail@web4801.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4179 --- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > I am beginning to go a little crazy here. > I'm losing track of what new tidbits we're learning and getting > desperate to get them all entered on the correct pages of the Lexicon > before someone does a search on Hermione's name and emails me > indignatly that her birthday is the *19th* of September, darn it, get > it right... > > Oh the joys and sorrows of being obsessed... > > Steve "Pretending to work" Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon > > I feel your pain, Steve! I've been moving all these chats and summaries into a separate folder. This weekend, I hope to have time to incorporate the info into my site. Good luck with yours! Melanie webmistress Hogwarts Haven http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From sarah.negretti at imperbel.com Fri Oct 20 19:09:40 2000 From: sarah.negretti at imperbel.com (sarah.negretti at imperbel.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:09:40 -0000 Subject: Opinion of Yahoo/BN chat Message-ID: <8sq59k+cv1s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4180 Aside from what's mentioned above... 1. she didn't confirm or deny that she will or won't kill off Harry! Eeek! 2. when asked, has harry ever used magic on dudley? she answered, "not yet (hint)" 3. we'll find out all about A. Figg in book 5 4. when asked if ron would ever get a girlfriend, she laughed and said (excuse the paraphrase), "why wouldn't he .. but he was aiming a bit high with Fleur" 5. we'll see moody in the next book(s) That's all I can remember. I didn't see any of the HPFGU questions asked. They really must pick the questions she answers randomly because someone who WANDERED in asked a (rather stupid) question. --Sarah (lurker revealed, and happy to finally be so!) From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 20 19:12:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:12:34 -0500 Subject: B&N Chat Message-ID: <39F09922.934391A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4181 Hi -- Well, we posted 43 official questions from the group. None got answered. But, someone who's not even read the HP books got a question in. How's that for fairness? Blaise & Joywitch & Milz have already summarized the only things of note. Overall, I was very disappointed by all the JKR events this week. Perhaps I put too much time & energy into it, but it was extremely disappointing to me that the same questions & themes were discussed over & over & over & over again. I very much believe it was all set-up . . . just publicity stunts, mainly geared to young kids. Of course, the scary thing to me is that I couldn't get the chatter noise turned off on the B&N chat so I was subjected to endless prattle from the young kids the whole time. They kept thinking they were talking directly to JKR -- didn't get the concept of a moderator at all. Anyway, they kept "asking" these same questions -- maybe that *is* what the kids care about (how did you think of HP, why did you want to be a writer, do you like being a writer, etc. -- the questions the rest of us wish we'd never hear again). Off to actually do something productive for my day Penny From mmarth at peoplepc.com Fri Oct 20 19:14:58 2000 From: mmarth at peoplepc.com (mmarth at peoplepc.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:14:58 -0000 Subject: highlights of the B&N chat In-Reply-To: <8sq4rf+hf9a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sq5ji+ottq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4182 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > > > She had several uncomplimentary (and well-deserved, IMHO) things to > say about the religious right-wingers who try to ban HP. *********** TOLERANCE Isn't that a word that has been in most of the messages for the last few days? But then that word has been changed to sometimes mean acceptance of bad behavior, anything goes except for what "I" don't agree with, we can not longer state the difference between right and wrong, etc. It is rather funny that leftist's are always wanting tolerance but never practice it. Did you not know that there are many religious right-wingers who love Harry Potter? Including myself and some very well known "so called religious" writers? But then the press doesn't put that out and no one really does their homework on such things. Let's get some tolerance and understanding on this board. Martha Who is doing her very best to stay on the subject of Harry Potter and not all this political stuff but having a hard time doing so! > From gchua at spicerspaperasia.com Fri Oct 20 19:28:14 2000 From: gchua at spicerspaperasia.com (Gen ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:28:14 -0000 Subject: B&N Chat In-Reply-To: <39F09922.934391A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sq6ce+7ig1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4183 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Well, we posted 43 official questions from the group. None got > answered. But, someone who's not even read the HP books got a question > in. How's that for fairness? > > Blaise & Joywitch & Milz have already summarized the only things of > note. > > Overall, I was very disappointed by all the JKR events this week. > Perhaps I put too much time & energy into it, but it was extremely > disappointing to me that the same questions & themes were discussed over > & over & over & over again. Hi Penny...I know you were there during the chat. Just wanted to say thanks for all the effort you've put in for us even though our questions were not answered. It was my first time in a chatroom and I thought I was going to see more substantial questions. Rather disappointing.(It's 3.30 am here now!) I was also surprised by her comment that Book 5 will be ready when it's ready. I'd always thought it'd be available by next July. Anyway, thanks once again.. Gen From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Oct 20 19:30:34 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:30:34 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall Message-ID: <20001020193034.23791.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4184 The reference was something I saw quite some time ago (possibly before GoF), at one or a number of fansites, but I do not recall where. It was on the lines that Dr. Rowling had said somewhere (chat, interview or something like it) that children from Scotland did not go to Hogwarts (though I realise that Professor McGonagall may be a contradition to this), and also that Hogwarts was in the North of England, near Scotland. Unfortunately I have few fansites bookmarked, and i do not recall where I saw it. Yes, Scotland is a separate kingdom, though it is part of the union. Note how Scotland and England have separate teams in many (but not all) international sporting events, e.g. the European Fotball (soccer) Championship. Norway was a separate kingdom in the union with Sweden. Before 1922, there was yet another kingdom in this union - Ireland. This is also evident from the arms of the United Kingdom - the arms that form the quarterings are all equivalent. The head of the college of Arms is the Duke of Norfolk, in his hereditary function as Earl Marshall. He precides over the Marshall Court, the equivalent of the Lyon Court. The three highest ranking officials at the College of Arms, however, are Garter Principal King of Arms (charged with the final words concerning the arms of Knights and Ladies of the Order of the Garter, and also aiding the other two), Clarenceaux (sp?) King of Arms (with the responsibility for England South of River Trent) and Ulster&Norroy King of Arms (gets the rest). These are appointed officials, and I suspect they are legal officials. (If you can't tell, I have a certain interest in matter heraldical) --- Amanda Lewanski skrev: > Neil Ward wrote: > > > >>This is also true for the authorities charged > with administering the use > > >>of heraldry. Scotland is a separate kingdom, > after all. > > > > Scotland is not a separate kingdom, it's part of > the United Kingdom. > > But the heraldic colleges are administered > separately. Lord Lyon, King of Arms, > is the head of the Scottish College of Arms, and is > an actual legal official. I > forget his title, but the head of the British > College is a different person and > is not a legal personage. You can actually research > cases from the court of Lord > Lyon off law search engines. > > --Amanda > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From vderark at bccs.org Fri Oct 20 19:40:28 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:40:28 -0000 Subject: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall In-Reply-To: <20001020193034.23791.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8sq73c+661g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4185 > but I do not recall where. It was on the lines that > Dr. Rowling had said somewhere (chat, interview or > something like it) that children from Scotland did not.no I'm curious why you refer to her as Dr. Rowling. Aside from a possible honorary doctorate (and I don't think I've heard of this anywhere), she isn't a PhD, and an honorary doctorate generally doesn't entitle you to refer to yourself as "Dr.". Or did I miss some VERY important bit of news lately about JKR? And did I therefore just make myself look ignorant? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 19:42:31 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:42:31 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? References: <4.2.0.58.20001019011842.021c55a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <001201c03acd$e583ca20$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4186 > Does anyone else find it interesting that Voldy seems to have no > knowledge (based on his "story" he tells the Death Eaters) of the > events in CoS? > > > > -- Dave Not really. After all, at the time, Voldemort was hiding out in Albania. He couldn't return until Wormtail went back to him, and I imagine they had more important things to talk about. Bear in mind it was only a memory of Voldemort in CoS, not Voldemort himself. The real Voldemort couldn't have known anything at the time as he wasn't there and was not in contact with anyone who was. Not even the diary, I don't think. As for Malfoy Sr's motives, I think he just wanted to discredit Arthur by any means possible and didn't care who got hurt or killed. JKR pretty much says so. Jinx From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Oct 20 19:55:03 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:55:03 -0500 Subject: Tolerance References: <8sq5ji+ottq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F0A317.A70A7A30@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4187 Hi -- mmarth at peoplepc.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > > > > > She had several uncomplimentary (and well-deserved, IMHO) things to > > say about the religious right-wingers who try to ban HP. > > *********** > > TOLERANCE > > Isn't that a word that has been in most of the messages for the last > few days? But then that word has been changed to sometimes mean > acceptance of bad behavior, anything goes except for what "I" don't > agree with, we can not longer state the difference between right and > wrong, etc. It is rather funny that leftist's are always wanting > tolerance but never practice it. > > Did you not know that there are many religious right-wingers who love > Harry Potter? Whoa!!! Now, Martha -- you read that sentence from Joywitch too quickly I think. She was NOT singling out ALL religious right-wingers. Read it again. She said that *those* religious right-wingers *who try to ban HP* deserve the ire of JKR. I'm a Liberal with a capital "L" but I do pride myself on promoting tolerance for the viewpoints of others. Aside -- can we elect Martin Sheen (aka Josiah Bartlett of the "West Wing") on Nov 7th? Hubby & I were cheering him on in this week's episode. I will say though that *of* the religious types who cite religion as their objection to HP, the vast majority probably do belong to one of the more fundamentalist sects. I think there are plenty of people who belong to a fundamentalist religious group who love HP & abhor the narrow-mindedness of their fellow church-goers. But, of the people who want HP banned, I don't think it's too much of a generalization to say *most* of those people probably are Fundamentalists of one type or another. Feel free to tell me if that's a completely off-base generalization but I don't think it is. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Oct 20 20:01:10 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:01:10 +0100 Subject: Alnwick Castle Message-ID: <018401c03ad0$a9abefc0$10997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4188 Hi all This came to my on the NCT (National Childbirth Trust - www.nct-online.org) list I am on. A lucky seven year old came back from his school trip on Thursday, saying to his mum that he had seen witches and wizards flying. He had been to Alnwick Castle, home of the Duke of Northumberland, on a school trip - as the class project was about castles. However, once they got there, they realised that the place has been taken over by the Harry Potter film crew. "DS1 swears he saw Harry himself - not the *real* Harry, he seriously explained to me." Anyone got any pictures? Nick. From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 20 20:02:50 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:02:50 +0100 Subject: Movie in Oxford, Scotland, shopping, wands, population Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4189 Well I start with movie news (or more correctly rumours). There is going to be some big film shot in Oxford in the next few days. The crew that was setting up some lighting stuff would not confirm what film but confirmed that they were setting up in more than one location in Oxford and it was all for the same film. Today they have been setting up in the quad of the Bodleian (library). They have been putting up what seems like floodlights from a football pitch. The library is closed on Saturday afternoon and Sunday - so I guess they will be filming then. During the week they have been setting up in and around Christ Church College. I have heard today that they have closed off the dining hall there. I would guess that they could not close this for too long a period - irate students are not easy to deal with - so they must be filming there soon. This led me to believe the rumours that they will be filming in Oxford over the weekend and maybe for a longer period after that. Possibilities are that they are filming scenes, which occur in the dining hall, maybe Oxford is being used as Diagon Alley. I have other more wild theories but will leave it here! Hogwarts is in Scotland. In CoS, when Snape is having a go at Ron and Harry over the flying car incident, he mentions Peebles. Peebles is a small town, south of Edinburgh, but very definitely in Scotland. For Harry and Ron to have flown over this place they must have been in Scotland and to get back to England they would have to have flown south. Also JKR has said Hogwarts is the only wizard school for the UK and Ireland. I am unsure though whether she meant Northern Ireland or the whole of the country when she made this comment. Neil asked: "I was wondering where the children get their regular clothes from and what they are like?" In shops. Maybe Diagon Alley has ordinary clothes shops as well. They then import there stock from normal muggle suppliers. I wonder how Hermione would react if she found out about the cheap labour in the clothing industry. Ron and the rest of the Weasley's seem to have a supply of normal clothes (they wear them when they go to play Quidditch up in their field). Neil wrote: "Since you mention that furore, we haven't heard from young Nicholas for ages (are you lurking here Nicholas?). He was a fervent, if not the only, supporter of the 'Hagrid's wand was not snapped' theory and tried to enlist me to support his argument. I sort of agreed with him, after a fashion, I think." And I have had the fun of reading all of those messages for the FAQ's. I still say it was not broken but that does not clear up the mystery of what happened to Nicholas. Christian wrote: "I assume that the demographic distribution agewise is similar, but adjusted with a factor of two (i.e., the segment of the muggle-population aged 7-8 years in proportion of the muggle-total old is equal to the segment of the wizarding population aged 14-16years in proportion to the wizarding total)" I am not sure I agree with this step (I do not think it will make much difference to the figures though). It seems to me, that during childhood, wizard children develop at a similar rate to muggle children (age of first crush, puberty, etc.). Christian wrote: "I assume that the number of muggleborn wizards is negated by the number of squibs born by wizards." Definitely an assumption. Very unlikely to be true. Squibs seem to be very rare but muggle borns seem fairly common. But being a mathematician I know all about making assumptions, and again this is unlikely to have affected the figures by any significant amount. Unfortunately I have done little population modelling, or mathematics of this kind (I hate statistics), so cannot really help. Simon (who now has an interesting evening of work to look forward too) From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Oct 20 20:06:02 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:06:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall Message-ID: <20001020200602.28624.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4190 Then it will seem I have misunderstood what entitlements you get from becoming Dr.H.C. I am not fully familiar with the principles concerning higherlevel Academic titles, and the other Dr.H.C. I have seen have of course all gotten Dr.-titles in their own right, so they would be Dr. n.n. anyway. > > I'm curious why you refer to her as Dr. Rowling. > Aside from a > possible honorary doctorate (and I don't think I've > heard of this > anywhere), she isn't a PhD, and an honorary > doctorate generally > doesn't entitle you to refer to yourself as "Dr.". > > Or did I miss some VERY important bit of news lately > about JKR? And > did I therefore just make myself look ignorant? > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 20:10:38 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:10:38 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scotland... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020201038.008b8f18@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4191 At 21:30 10/20/2000 +0200, Christian wrote: >Yes, Scotland is a separate kingdom, though it is part >of the union. Note how Scotland and England have >separate teams in many (but not all) international >sporting events, e.g. the European Fotball (soccer) >Championship. Well, I know there are separate sports teams (for some sports), because England and Scotland are separate countries, but surely Scotland ceased being a separate *kingdom* when the Union was formed? Otherwise, why call it the United Kingdom and have a single monarch? Please explain as you seem very knowledgeable about this, and despite being English, I am useless at British history. >>Norway was a separate kingdom in the union with Sweden. When was this? They have separate monarchs now, don't they - were they under a single monarch at some point? >The head of the college of Arms is the Duke of >Norfolk, in his hereditary function as Earl Marshall. >He precides over the Marshall Court, the equivalent of >the Lyon Court. I know virtually nothing whatsoever about heraldry, so I'm fascinated to read this. I know I should never have dropped history in favour of technical drawing. Time to do some research, I think... I'm still really surprised to learn that Scotland is not included in the Hogwarts intake. Where do the Scottish kids go? Durmstrang? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 19:44:41 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:44:41 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? References: <4.2.0.58.20001019011842.021c55a0@pop.mindspring.com> <4.2.0.58.20001019135531.025bc480@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <00ed01c03ad4$631b86c0$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4192 > At 07:29 PM 10/19/00 +0000, foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > > It appears, though, that the main objective of the plot was to drive > Dumbledore > > from the school, and at this, it very nearly succeeded. > > This seems to go back to my theory that Dumbledore will get sacked in > Book 5, and L. Malfoy will become headmaster(!)... > > > > -- Dave Or worse, Headmaster Snape!! Can you think of anything worse than that? (Apart from Headmaster Voldemort, but I think Voldy would have better things to do...) Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 19:47:36 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:47:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> <39EE0E0B.A5FD38FB@alumni.upenn.edu> <000401c039fc$31cc7a80$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> <39EF6786.C8AC308B@texas.net> Message-ID: <00ee01c03ad4$6483a240$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4193 > What I was thinking was that inanimate objects--clothes, purses, hairpins, > wands, etc.--apparently travel with the spell-caster. But I'm not sure another > animate object would. Even in utero, a baby would be a different animate object. > So that's what gave rise to the question. > > --Amanda In most cases, I wouldn't have thought Apparating does let you take other people with you. But then, a child in utero is physically attached to it's mother and shares a bloodstream with her. Maybe that makes a difference. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 19:54:54 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:54:54 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? References: <8sni2e+97sj@eGroups.com> <39EF6A34.11C9938A@texas.net> Message-ID: <00ef01c03ad4$66a45f60$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4194 > I did find book 2 the least solid, for this very reason. While it *was* > engrossing action, what started the action, and why was it going on? What was > Dobby so worried about? Harry wasn't pure Muggle. I never understood Dobby's > involvement, it seemed a bit shaky. > > --Amanda Me neither. My best guess is that Lucius didn't want to risk Harry screwing things up for him and sent Dobby to keep him out of the way. Or Draco wanted him out and had something to do with it. Either that or Dobby went on his own initiative because he knew about the plot and didn't want Harry hurt. Dobby does tell Harry that house elves are grateful to him because they were treated really badly while Voldemort was around, and are relying on him to keep Voldy away for them. However, I'm not really happy about that story. Quite apart from anything else, house elves aren't normally allowed to use their magic without their owner's permission. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 19:58:26 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:58:26 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book2, Dobby, and why Harry (not a pure Muggle) References: <001e01c03a20$20a93b20$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <00f001c03ad4$67fbb200$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4195 ----- Original Message ----- From: Denise Rohleder To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 11:58 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book2, Dobby, and why Harry (not a pure Muggle) > Perhaps, living in Malfoy's mansion, Dobby knew the first prediction of Prof. T? And if that had to do with Harry, and hasn't come true yet, then that would be a reason to keep Harry Potter alive. If Harry dies, then the hope of the world goes with him--Voldie would win. And despite being Malfoy's lackey, Dobby really is a good person at heart. Dobby isn't Malfoy's lackey, he's a house elf. He's got to do what his master tells him and keep his secrets - he doesn't have a choice in the matter. Once freed by Harry and can act on his own initiative without fear of punishment, he loses no time turning on Malfoy. Just saying this so no one gets the idea that Dobby chose to support the Malfoys - he didn't. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 20:12:46 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:12:46 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] How many wizards... References: <20001020125705.21798.qmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f101c03ad4$6b5b57c0$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4196 ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Stub To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 1:57 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] How many wizards... > - I assume that Hogwarts trains all wizarding-kind in > England, Wales and Northern Ireland, but not in > Scotland or the Republic of Ireland (unless somebody > whack me over the head with an explisit statement from > Dr. Rowling indicating otherwise.) Well, Irish kid Seamus Finnigan attends Hogwarts, so Irish wizards might go to Hogwarts as well, especially if there's only a few of them. And why no Scottish wizards? I believe JKR actually set Hogwarts in Scotland (I could be wrong) so Scottish pupils surely go there. > - I assume that the number of muggleborn wizards is > negated by the number of squibs born by wizards. Not really, Squibs are said to be a lot rarer than Muggle-born witches/wizards (CoS). Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 20:17:15 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:17:15 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 Title; Birthdays References: <39F06366.3EB8546D@swbell.net> Message-ID: <00f201c03ad4$6d38f160$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4197 > Happy Birthday to Voicelady!! Does anyone more computer literate than > myself want to try & create a calendar that could be posted in the Files > area, where we can record member birthdays (and HP-related birthdays > such as 31 July & 19 September)? That could be fun. My birthday is > also coming up soon . . . . > > Penny There's a ready made calendar on the site already, isn't there? Happy Birthday voicelady, BTW. Have a good one! Jinx From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Fri Oct 20 20:37:56 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:37:56 -0000 Subject: Movie in Oxford, In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sqaf4+u88d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4198 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Well I start with movie news (or more correctly rumours). > There is going to be some big film shot in Oxford in the next few days. The > crew that was setting up some lighting stuff would not confirm what film but > confirmed that they were setting up in more than one location in Oxford and > it was all for the same film. > Today they have been setting up in the quad of the Bodleian (library). They > have been putting up what seems like floodlights from a football pitch. The > library is closed on Saturday afternoon and Sunday - so I guess they will be > filming then. > During the week they have been setting up in and around Christ Church > College. I have heard today that they have closed off the dining hall there. > I would guess that they could not close this for too long a period - irate > students are not easy to deal with - so they must be filming there soon. > This led me to believe the rumours that they will be filming in Oxford over > the weekend and maybe for a longer period after that. > Possibilities are that they are filming scenes, which occur in the dining > hall, maybe Oxford is being used as Diagon Alley. I have other more wild > theories but will leave it here! I read in the Cherwell this evening that they're definitely filming HP at Christ Church - there was something about the meadow and approach to the college which I didn't entirely get, not having been there myself, but it said they were using it as the approach to the main gates of Hogwarts. Whether I should trust the Cherwell or not is another question... -Blaise. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Fri Oct 20 20:37:40 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:37:40 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scotland... References: <1.5.4.32.20001020201038.008b8f18@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <010101c03ad5$bcdb2f20$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4199 ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Ward To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Scotland... > Well, I know there are separate sports teams (for some sports), because > England and Scotland are separate countries, but surely Scotland ceased > being a separate *kingdom* when the Union was formed? Otherwise, why call > it the United Kingdom and have a single monarch? Please explain as you seem > very knowledgeable about this, and despite being English, I am useless at > British history. It used to be a separate kingdom, but no longer is - it's monarch is Queen Elizabeth, same as the rest of the country. It does have a separate legal system and now it's own parliament. The local government is also somewhat different, I believe, and it most definitely preserves it's own cultural/national identity. But it's still very much part of the UK - it is not an independent state. > I'm still really surprised to learn that Scotland is not included in the > Hogwarts intake. Where do the Scottish kids go? Durmstrang? > > Neil I can't see why the Scottish kids wouldn't go to Hogwarts - it's really weird for them not to, especially if Irish kids get let in. JKR lives in Edinburgh and appears to have set Hogwarts in Scotland, there's no way she'd keep Scotch witches and wizards out of Hogwarts, surely? Jinx From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 20:50:32 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:50:32 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Tolerance Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020205032.008f36d4@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4200 Martha said: >> TOLERANCE >> >> Isn't that a word that has been in most of the messages for the last >> few days? But then that word has been changed to sometimes mean >> acceptance of bad behavior, anything goes except for what "I" don't >> agree with, we can not longer state the difference between right and >> wrong, etc. It is rather funny that leftist's are always wanting >> tolerance but never practice it. >> >> Did you not know that there are many religious right-wingers who love >> Harry Potter? I'm with Penny on this one, Martha. Joywitch was not including all religious right-wingers in her statement. Could I also add that it's a rather bold generalisation to say "leftists are always wanting tolerance but never practice it." Never practice it? The truth is that extremists of any design can be unyielding in their views. Everyone should have the right to free speech (although many don't), but there are some things that, frankly, should not be tolerated. I'm really impressed by the cultural diversity in this group and I'm willing to hear and "tolerate" other views even if I don't agree with them. I reserve the right to question things I don't agree with and I expect to be heard as I would hear others. To me, this is a very uniting club and, most of the time, we are very respectful towards each other. Okay, politics over... and back to Hogwarts and escapism! Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 20:59:37 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:59:37 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scotland... Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001020205937.008eef5c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4201 At 21:37 10/20/2000 +0100, Jinx wrote: >>>[Scotland] used to be a separate kingdom, but no longer is - it's monarch >>>is Queen Elizabeth, same as the rest of the country. But, Christian thinks otherwise, as he said. Perhaps he'll explain. >I can't see why the Scottish kids wouldn't go to Hogwarts - it's really >weird for them not to, especially if Irish kids get let in. JKR lives in >Edinburgh and appears to have set Hogwarts in Scotland, there's no way she'd >keep Scotch witches and wizards out of Hogwarts, surely? Aaaaargh, Jinx! The ultimate sin is to call Scottish people 'Scotch'. Scotch is whisky. McGonagall would take 50 points from your House for that. What is your House, BTW? I agree - this information about Scotland being excluded cannot be correct. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 21:19:34 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:19:34 -0000 Subject: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall In-Reply-To: <20001020200602.28624.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8sqct6+rv79@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4202 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > Then it will seem I have misunderstood what > entitlements you get from becoming Dr.H.C. I am not > fully familiar with the principles concerning > higherlevel Academic titles, and the other Dr.H.C. I > have seen have of course all gotten Dr.-titles in > their own right, so they would be Dr. n.n. anyway. Huh? Could you explain the above message? I did not understand any of it, and I doubt I am the only one. I am afraid we have a serious language barrier here. What do *Dr.H.C.* and Dr. n.n.* mean? Maybe this will help: (???) In English-speaking countries, the title *Doctor,* abbreviated *Dr.* is given to people who are medical doctors (physicians of any kind, for people or for animals) and also to people who have received doctorates, also called *Doctor of Philosophy* or *Ph.D.*. A Ph.D is the highest degree offered by most institutes of higher learning, and is generally, but not always, required to obtain a teaching position in a university. People who are medical doctors usually refer to themselves as doctors, but most people with Ph.D.s only called themselves *Doctor* when their professional activities require it, unless they are pretentious. JKR does NOT have a PhD, and is not a medical doctor, so she should not be called Dr. I know titles work differently in other countries, so maybe that is causing this confusion. For example, in Latin America, where IMHO education in general is treated with a lot more respect than in the U.S., most people with any sort of degree use a title. I get letters from people signed *Maestrado X* (Mr. X has a masters degree) Ingeniera Z (Ms. Z is an engineer), etc. -- Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Fri Oct 20 21:36:14 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:36:14 -0000 Subject: The Tolerance Discussion Message-ID: <8sqdse+2pv5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4203 Thanks for backing me up, Penny and Neil. I agree that Martha seriously over-reacted. I was just reporting what JKR said at the chat, well, ok and adding my opinion a little bit. And Neils point is well taken - I have met many, many, many intolerant people in my life. Some of them have very right-wing political views, other have very left-wing political views. I think that it is fair to say that most, and perhaps all, of the people who want to ban the HP books are religious fundamentalistists. This does NOT mean that ALL religious fundamentalists want to ban the HP books. We need to remember our basic logic here - If A then B is NOT equal to If B, then A. In other words, The statement *If my car is out of gas then it will not run* does NOT imply the statement *If my car does not run then it is out of gas* And the facts are that JKR did have some choice words for the people who want to ban her books and she did refer to them as the religious right-wing and she is, politically, a leftist. Clearly a very tolerant leftist, IMHO, as I myself try to be. Tolerance of other people and other viewpoints, I have to add, though, does not mean acceptance in any way of those ideologies which sensible people find repugnant - like racism and fascism. -- Joywitch From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 20 22:19:49 2000 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:19:49 -0000 Subject: A couple of things: In-Reply-To: <8snssp+8lb6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sqge5+lhm7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4204 Last things first: Happy birthday! First things next: I think I remember mentioning Pullman's books before - and mentioning that I was quasi-flabbergasted to see another Professor Trelawney, but my post went the way of many - lots of people read, nobody responds. It gratifies my ego a bit to hear that someone actually read it. ;) I just read the final installment in the trilogy - it just came out on the 10th, and it's huge - I'd say it was comparable to GoF in size - but a little more complex. The ideas are definitely harder for the reader to get their minds used to, but very rewarding when it's clear. I'd absolutely recommend it. Of course, as I'm sure everyone else on this list can agree, we're all "series-a-holics", so if you've already started the first one (and probably finished by now), you're not going to physically be able to stay away from the rest. :) Hope the birthday and reading go well!! Jen (who hasn't been lurking, but has slowly been muddling through the past 3000 posts... what a job!) From ben.leigh at cwcom.net Fri Oct 20 22:14:56 2000 From: ben.leigh at cwcom.net (Ben Leigh) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:14:56 +0100 Subject: Book 5 title Message-ID: <011f01c03ae3$2e955660$0200a8c0@jonnyold> No: HPFGUIDX 4205 HI all I'm not impressed with the title! I have a feeling that's the "working" title like Doomspell tournement was. I think JK will change the title Ben [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Fri Oct 20 22:27:56 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:27:56 +0100 Subject: Privet Drive / Picket Post Close Message-ID: <01bc01c03ae5$039fcce0$10997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4206 Oh it's not fair... I missed the filming down the road from me. Back in late September... they were filming less than 6 miles away from my home... and I missed it :-( Only problem with them filming in Picket Post Close http://www.afd.co.uk/PcSearchDetails.asp?Key=RG12+9FG1001&Name=&UseCounty=0 http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=489009&Y=168539&A=Y&Z=3 is that it's not in Surrey... it's in Berkshire. Ok, so the Surrey border is less than 6 miles away (I live in Surrey), but the fact remains that it isn't Surrey. Does it matter... no not really. Talking of the movie... anyone know which HP site is best for Movie News? Nick. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Oct 20 22:58:50 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:58:50 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001019011842.021c55a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8sqina+evkc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4207 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > What do you think was Lucius Malfoy's true motive in CoS? > Was he really trying to create a Voldy "clone", a la _The Boys > From Brazil_? Or was the object to frame Ginny and drive > Arthur from the Ministry? Or did he just have this sudden urge > to sweep all Muggle-borns from the face of the Earth? > > Does anyone else find it interesting that Voldy seems to have no > knowledge (based on his "story" he tells the Death Eaters) of the > events in CoS? > > > > -- Dave I had the impression that Lucius was working for Vold, trying to find a way to get Vold back on the road to power. I think what started the action is Vold is trying to come back, as he was in SS trying to get the philosopher's stone. Vold wanted the chamber opened to release the basilisk so it could start killing. I also thought that Vold in GoF knew the info his "memory" self received in CoS. TR jr. learned that Lily's love is what saved Harry the first time, and this info is why he wanted Harry's blood in GoF, to counteract the 'protection' Harry had from her love. I know it's not spelled out that that's why he wants H's blood, as opposed to any wizard's; any wizard's blood would help bring him back, but with H's he could overcome one of the protective barriers. Plus, while I believe Harry is always Vold's target, getting Dumble out of the way is an important part of his plan to conquer Harry. I also think Dobby was acting on Malfoy's orders to keep Harry from returning to HW, but, he seemed to really be trying to protect Harry at the same time. I like Susan's thought that by 'using' Ginny, Arthur would be discredited at the Ministry. A bonus for Lucius. Okay, I think that's it. Kelley From warmsley at btinternet.com Fri Oct 20 23:10:32 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:10:32 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A couple of things: Message-ID: <01c03aea$f1f38300$d72a073e@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 4208 >> 36. But I pass for early 20's. > >Me too! The 36 part, at any rate. I get so flustered when checkers call me >"ma'am" that I forget to ask how old they think I am.... Happy Birthday! >Your next cubed birthday won't be for 13 years, so enjoy it! > Actually, that's "squared". Don't you all just *hate* me? ...returning to lurkdom Jeremy (Who thinks that HP & Order of the Phoenix sounds like a very intriguing title...) From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 23:22:35 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:22:35 -0000 Subject: Scottish Arms In-Reply-To: <39F095C6.D05CB79B@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sqk3r+g30b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4209 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski >I > forget his title, but the head of the British College is a different person and > is not a legal personage. Are you sure there is a British College of Arms? I didn't think there was one. An English College, a Scottish College and a Welsh College (I believe) and probably and Irish one - but I'm not sure about a British one. A few years ago British Airways were under threat of having to repaint any plane that flew north of the border. They had obtained permission from the English heralds for the coat of arms on the tail fin but not from the Scottish ones. Pam A half-Welsh Englishwoman who has lived in Scotland for the past 25 years From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Oct 20 23:27:12 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:27:12 -0000 Subject: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001019011842.021c55a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8sqkch+ojfq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4210 I don't know what I think of "HP and The Order of The Phoenix", (that's it, right?). I'll decide when I hear what the 'other' title might be. I'm one of those that preferred "The Doomspell Tournament" to GoF. And, sadly, I missed the B&N chat--circumstances beyond my control. Someone posted that JKR said that Hagrid was in Gryff.; didn't it say Hagrid was in Huff in one of the books? Harry says "I'll probably be in Huff," and doesn't Hagrid say "~I~ was in Huff..." or something like that? I could swear I saw this somewhere, maybe not that exchange, but that it's stated that Hagrid was in Huff. Am I nuts? All right, all right, we know the answer to that one, keep your comments to yourselves... ;o] One more question: Isn't it also stated somewhere that Molly Weasley has brown hair, and that Arthur has the red hair from which all the kids get their's? I was sure of this too, but people keep mentioning Molly's red hair... Kelley From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 23:25:04 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:25:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? References: <8sqina+evkc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F0D44F.E9D99F2A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4211 Kelley wrote: > I had the impression that Lucius was working for Vold, trying to find > a way to get Vold back on the road to power. I think what started > the action is Vold is trying to come back, as he was in SS trying to > get the philosopher's stone. But wasn't Voldemort's bitterest complaint in GoF that none of his supporters until Wormtail had come to find him? Surely if Lucius were in contact with him, he [V] would not have been lurking in a forest possessing rats until Wormtail arrived? I think the action here is totally independent and had nothing to do with Harry directly, until *after* echo-Tom learned of the defeat of his future self from Ginny. Lucius may well have been acting under orders from the echo-Tom, but I doubt it, since the echo would have learned of Harry then. Perhaps Lucius just thought the time had come to strew a little mayhem at Hogwarts, with Draco there to fan the flames and all. > I also thought that > Vold in GoF knew the info his "memory" self received in CoS. TR jr. > learned that Lily's love is what saved Harry the first time, and this > info is why he wanted Harry's blood in GoF, to counteract > the 'protection' Harry had from her love. I think he worked this out in the long, dark years of lurking in forests possessing chipmunks. He says in GoF that it's an ancient magic, "I should have remembered it," which indicates to me that said ancient magic was known to him even at the time of Lily's and James' murders. He just forgot, and figured out what must have caused his plans to go awry while twiddling his figurative thumbs waiting for a lackey or decent possessee to show up. > Plus, while I believe > Harry is always Vold's target, getting Dumble out of the way is an > important part of his plan to conquer Harry. Rethink. Getting Dumble out of the way is an important part of his plan to conquer the world. He knew this much as a student at Hogwarts. His future self realized that getting Harry out of the way was a biggie, too, but Harry is not the objective; he's a rung on the ladder. I've put my finger on it; what bothers me about book 2. It's that "interlude" feeling, sort of. The action must be seen so we'll know certain things and understand certain relationships, but this is the only book of the four that feels at all contrived as a vehicle for these revelations more than an entity that needed to be written. The confusing part arises because the bad guys are the same, but different. There's no reason to believe there's any communication betwixt the echo-Tom and Voldemort. I don't think what happens to the memory becomes part of V's memories; that seems a bit farfetched. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 23:30:16 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:30:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A couple of things: References: <01c03aea$f1f38300$d72a073e@warmsley> Message-ID: <39F0D588.34920F2E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4212 Warmsley wrote: > Actually, that's "squared". > > Don't you all just *hate* me? Nah, Jeremy, I make these glaring errors deliberately so everyone can still accept and relate to me, bastion of perfection that I am. Musta been all those 3-ish numbers in 36 that got me thinking cubed. --Amanda, the modest, the unassuming From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 20 23:32:17 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:32:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scottish Arms References: <8sqk3r+g30b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F0D601.7F5A48BA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4213 Pam Scruton wrote: > Are you sure there is a British College of Arms? I didn't think > there was one. An English College, a Scottish College and a Welsh > College (I believe) and probably and Irish one - but I'm not sure > about a British one. AAAGH. All my heraldic references are in the room where the baby sleeps, and I wrote this during naptime. I meant "non-Scottish." Gimme a break, I couldn't even remember "Garter," and I've been a herald in a medieval recreation society for going on 17 years. I can just *feel* those brain cells leaking out my ears, some days. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 20 23:50:55 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:50:55 -0000 Subject: So far at yahoo In-Reply-To: <8sq3q5+c9m6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sqlov+jh7o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4214 > and something IS 'going on' between Ron and Hermione only Ron > "typical boy" doesn't know yet. > > > -Sarah > (back to lurk mode) Thank Goodness and JKR...I don't think I could have stood another two years of THAT discussion From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 20 23:58:18 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:58:18 -0000 Subject: highlights of the B&N chat In-Reply-To: <8sq5ji+ottq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sqm6q+31b5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4215 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: right and > wrong, etc. It is rather funny that leftist's are always wanting > tolerance but never practice it. > Yeah. I agree. Like that left wing socialist JKR! Seriously, I know many people of deep religious Christian faith who love Harry Potter. However, it is the right wing religious fundamentalists who want him banned. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 00:06:20 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:06:20 -0000 Subject: The Tolerance Discussion In-Reply-To: <8sqdse+2pv5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sqmls+sejb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4216 > And Neils point is well taken - I have met many, many, many > intolerant people in my life. Some of them have very right-wing > political views, other have very left-wing political views. > > And some of them have middle of the road viewpoints and are intolerant of others that don't share them. Tolerance does not mean you agree with someone, or "tolerate" injustice. It means that you agree that everyone has the right to voice their opinion. Then there is always the discussion about what to do about hate speech, or Nazi speech -- what does tolerance mean? Then there is the discussion of civility --- the promotion of discourse that speaks to the issue and does not condemn or characterize the speaker. I hear that Martha thinks us left wingers are not tolerant; Martha, why don't you email me privately since I would be interested in specifics. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 00:18:42 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:18:42 -0000 Subject: order of the phoenix In-Reply-To: <8spud9+b4bm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sqnd2+l7np@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4217 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > rian wrote > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > > > > > > When I heard "The Order of the Phoenix" I immediately thought of > a > > religious > > > order or some sort of secret society. My next thought was that > > Dumbledore > > > was probably a member of the Order of the Phoenix, which is why > he > > has > > > Fawkes. My next thought was that everyone with a wand containing > a > > Phoenix > > > feather is a member of the Order of the Phoenix, and that this is > > some sort > > > of elite sect; with rival groups such as the Order of the > Unicorn. > > Three > > > thoughts in a row. I'm doing well today. > > > > Very similar to my thoughts when I heard "Order of the Phoenix" > > except that I thought it might be the name of the group AD puts > > together to stand against Voldy. And maybe the eternal vigilance > > that the side of light must maintain to hold off the dark is > > represented by the Phoenix's immortality (rising from it's ashes). > > > > > And I immediately thought of Lori Summers' Paradigm of Uncertainty, > where there is a Society of the Scythe, of which Dumbledore is a > member, who study magical powers, and have a particular interest in > Harry. And my first thought was that it was a decoration, a medal.....but then Dumbledore might have it -- is it the Order of the Garter in England? Then I thought it might be a society (secret or not) like the Jacobins or the Sons of Cincinnatus. Then I thought (excitedly) that it might be BOTH -- a secret society and a decoration -- what would be the attributes of the secret society -- well, those of a phoenix --- loyalty, healing, transformation, rebirth....wow Susan From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 21 00:16:41 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:16:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: So far at yahoo References: <8sqlov+jh7o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F0E069.8344A1AE@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4218 Hi -- Susan McGee wrote: > > and something IS 'going on' between Ron and Hermione only Ron > > "typical boy" doesn't know yet. > > > > > > > Thank Goodness and JKR...I don't think I could have stood > another two years of THAT discussion > Ah . . . I assume by "THAT discussion," you are referring to the H/H vs. R/H debates. If you think the H/H discussions are out of commission based on her admission that Ron doesn't know he has feelings for Hermione, you are mistaken. Plus, she didn't say that Hermione returns the feelings or that they would date or that it would work. Most of us H/H'ers think R & H might date at Hogwarts. It just won't work. Discussions continue. Sorry to disappoint you & all that.... Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Oct 21 00:39:47 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:39:47 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <39F0D44F.E9D99F2A@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sqokj+ltbp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4219 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > But wasn't Voldemort's bitterest complaint in GoF that none of his > supporters until Wormtail had come to find him? Surely if Lucius were in > contact with him, he [V] would not have been lurking in a forest possessing > rats until Wormtail arrived? Okay, yeah, that's true. Perhaps opening the chamber was Lucius' own bright idea; he's trying to be a good little DE, and wouldn't his ultimate goal in doing this be to assist Vold? > I think the action here is totally independent and had nothing to do with> Harry directly, until *after* echo-Tom learned of the defeat of his future> self from Ginny. Lucius may well have been acting under orders from the> echo-Tom, but I doubt it, since the echo would have learned of Harry then. > Perhaps Lucius just thought the time had come to strew a little mayhem at> Hogwarts, with Draco there to fan the flames and all. Well, maybe the action doesn't focus on Harry til TR learned of him from Ginny, but he would have learned it from her pretty early in the school year, and since that point, he would have been after Harry. >>this info is why he wanted Harry's blood in GoF, to counteract >> the 'protection' Harry had from her love. > > I think he worked this out in the long, dark years of lurking in forests> possessing chipmunks. He says in GoF that it's an ancient magic, "I should> have remembered it," which indicates to me that said ancient magic was known> to him even at the time of Lily's and James' murders. He just forgot, and> figured out what must have caused his plans to go awry while twiddling his> figurative thumbs waiting for a lackey or decent possessee to show up. It seems that the whole point of TR jr. learning of Lily's counter- charm in CoS, is that he didn't know why he was defeated, and all Harry got was a scar, (which yes, he learned from Ginny). With this info, as he was sitting in the forest in Albania, he probably thought, "D'oh! The ancient magic! How could I have forgotten that?" And then began making his plans to counter this protection...? > > Plus, while I believe > > Harry is always Vold's target, getting Dumble out of the way is an > > important part of his plan to conquer Harry. > > Rethink. Getting Dumble out of the way is an important part of his plan to> conquer the world. He knew this much as a student at Hogwarts. His future> self realized that getting Harry out of the way was a biggie, too, but Harry> is not the objective; he's a rung on the ladder. Yes, I believe world domination is Vold's ultimate goal. (BWAHAHAHAHAAA!) Back in his school days, and just-out-of-school days, TR/Vold knew that Dumble was his biggest obstacle. As of Halloween, 1981, though, he must now know that Harry is his biggest obstacle. What I mean is, Dumble isn't the one who reduced Vold to smithereens, it was baby Harry. If Dumble was still Vold's biggest obstacle, why did he go after James, Lily, and Harry there in Godric's Hollow that night? We seem to believe that Harry was Vold's main target that night, not J & L; so why was he after Harry? I think this has to do with Trelawney's first correct prediction somehow. Vold has to think Harry is the reason that he's not ruler of the world, right? If not, I can't figure it out. > I've put my finger on it; what bothers me about book 2. It's that > "interlude" feeling, sort of. The action must be seen so we'll know certain> things and understand certain relationships, but this is the only book of> the four that feels at all contrived as a vehicle for these revelations more> than an entity that needed to be written. I absolutely see your point here, it's a very good one, but couldn't the point of CoS be that Lucius is still being a DE, and trying to do ~something~ to help his lord Vold? Couldn't he have been acting on Vold's behalf, instead of on his orders? > The confusing part arises because the bad guys are the same, but different.> There's no reason to believe there's any communication betwixt the echo-Tom> and Voldemort. I don't think what happens to the memory becomes part of V's> memories; that seems a bit farfetched. > > --Amanda Yes, I see that there's no reason to think there ~is~ communication, but there is a possibility that present Vold may have learned about the protection, etc., from memory-Tom Riddle. (Don't ask me how, ;o].) Of course, in CoS, Vold was trying to get Harry out of the way for Vold's future self, but as that failed again, Vold still has Harry in his way. Or maybe I'm just completely wrong. I suspect that JKR will prove every one of my theories to be total poppycock... Kelley From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Oct 21 00:42:15 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:42:15 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Multiple questions attempted answered - long, and then some Message-ID: <20001021004215.28812.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4220 Table of Contents: 1. SCOTLAND (a) Placement of Hogwarts (b) Separate or not, and of Norway 2. IRELAND 3. PAGING DR. CONFUSION 4. ON POPULATION ISSUE (a) The assumption on squibs (b) Age Distribution 5. HERALDRY 1. SCOTLAND (a) Placement of Hogwarts I obviously was in error in my beliefs concerning Scotland, if they flew over Peebles. JRK seems to be quite fond of subtle hints, and with CoS not being my favourite of the four HP-books... I am still certain i read about Scotland not sending kids to Hogwarts somewhere, but the source obviously was wrong. (b) Separate or not?, and of Norway Neil Ward wrote --- Well, I know there are separate sports teams (for some sports), becauseEngland and Scotland are separate countries, but surely Scotland ceasedbeing a separate *kingdom* when the Union was formed? Otherwise, why callit the United Kingdom and have a single monarch? Please explain as you seemvery knowledgeable about this, and despite being English, I am useless atBritish history. >>Norway was a separate kingdom in the union with Sweden. When was this? They have separate monarchs now, don't they - were theyunder a single monarch at some point? --- I suspect we may be using the term separate somewhat differently. With the term separate from England, I think of the way Massachusetts is separate from Vermont, for instance. Scotland is not merely a collective name for a number of counties in the Northern part of Britain, it is a separate entity in many ways legally, educationally, the peerage (Scots nobility has some differences from English nobility, in some titles, among other things) etc., but not in other ways (foreign service, the defence forces, etc.). Norway was in a union with Denmark for more than 400 years, during which the status was changed from a kingdom in its own right to merely a number of provinces under the Danish Crown. In name, that was. In reality, geography dictated that Norway had its own administration, army (but not navy), customs service, postal service, etc. In 1814, however, Napoleon lost a certain war. One of his allies was Denmark-Norway. Among the victors was Sweden (whose crownprince was Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte, son of a lawyer, and formerly one of Napoleons marshals he would later becom king as Karl XIV Johan). Britain knew to reward its allies, and took Norway from Denmark and gave us to Sweden (simply put). Because the Swedish army was far to the South, in France, however, It took some time to shift it North again, and so there was time to get a constitution, which resulted in Norway being a kingdom in union with Sweden, rather than a part of Sweden (to Karl-Johans dismay). Norway became independent in 1905. 2. IRELAND Jinx wrote: --- Well, Irish kid Seamus Finnigan attends Hogwarts, so Irish wizards might goto Hogwarts as well, especially if there's only a few of them. --- It is a month or two since I last picked up a one of the books, but I do not remember any statements as to what part of Ireland Seamus came from the Republic or Northern Ireland. If he was from Northern Ireland, it is still quite probable (to me, at least) that hed support the Irish team, even against England. His name tells me that he is not descended from the English that came to Ireland following the English takeover, and hed be quite proud, I think, of being Irish, even if he was a British citizen. While all of Ireland was a part of Britain, it would be natural for Irish kids to go to Hogwarts. However, I wonder if Irish national pride following independence would dictate an attempt to set up an Irish institution of magical education, but I am not at all certain on this matter. 3. PAGING DR. CONFUSION Steve Vander Ark wrote: --- Or did I miss some VERY important bit of news lately about JKR? And did I therefore just make myself look ignorant? --- I seem to be the one ignoratn on this issue. More below. Joywitch wrote: --- Huh? Could you explain the above message? I did not understand any of it, and I doubt I am the only one. I am afraid we have a serious language barrier here. What do *Dr.H.C.* and Dr. n.n.* mean? Maybe this will help: (???) In English-speaking countries, the title *Doctor,* abbreviated *Dr.* is given to people who are medical doctors (physicians of any kind, for people or for animals) and also to people who have received doctorates, also called *Doctor of Philosophy* or *Ph.D.*. A Ph.D is the highest degree offered by most institutes of higher learning, and is generally, but not always, required to obtain a teaching position in a university. People who are medical doctors usually refer to themselves as doctors, but most people with Ph.D.s only called themselves *Doctor* when their professional activities require it, unless they are pretentious. JKR does NOT have a PhD, and is not a medical doctor, so she should not be called Dr. I know titles work differently in other countries, so maybe that is causing this confusion. For example, in Latin America, where IMHO education in general is treated with a lot more respect than in the U.S., most people with any sort of degree use a title. I get letters from people signed *Maestrado X* (Mr. X has a masters degree) Ingeniera Z (Ms. Z is an engineer), etc. --- Yes, I wrote that message a bit fast, perhaps. n.n. is the Norwegian name for John Doe (i.e. name unknown). Dr. n.n. thus means Dr. John Doe. Sometimes I type faster than I think. Dr. H.C. means Doctor Honoris Causa the formal name for an honourable doctorate. I am a student at university (though at a break right now), but I have not studied the entitlements that come with doctorates and honourable doctorates thoroughly. The few I have seen have had a formal Doctorate (Dr. Med., Dr. Scient., Dr. Theol., etc.), and as such have been entitled to being referred to as Dr. already, and this probably lead to a hasty conclusion in my titling of JKR (what is she, by the way Ms? Mrs? BSc?). In Norway, we have two tracks of Academic titling: practically oriented and academically oriented. Practically oriented titles are for instance within engineering, architecture and economy. The titles are on the style of Hg.Ing. (three-year degree in engineering offered at regional colleges), Siv.Ing (five-year degree in engineering, offered at universities and selected regional colleges. Hg.Ing. can be upgraded to Siv.Ing. with a two or three year long add on) or Siv.k. (as siv.ing., within economy). These titles have no equivalent in English. A Siv-title gives the right to become a doctorand (studying for a doctorate). Education in these titles follows a more practical approach than in the classical university model. The siv.-titles are prestigeous. I am studying for a siv.ing.-degree in naval architecture. The scientifically oriented titles belong to the classical university, as seen particularly in Germany and France. The minor degree, eqv. to Bachelor is mellomfag, giving the degree Cand.Mag. (from Candidate and Magister), which requires classes equal at least four normal years of studies. Following mellomfag, one can move to hoved-fag, which requires at least two more years, culminating in a thesis which constitutes a half academic year. The degree can be Cand. Scient., Cand. Med., Cand.Theol., Cand.Oecon., etc. depending on the specialisation. From hovedfag, one can move on to doctorate. One may also note that university-level magical degrees in Norway would have to be Hg.Mag., Siv.Mag. and Dr.Mag., seeing that Cand.Mag. is already taken by a muggle-degree. 4. ON POPULATION ISSUE (a) The assumption on squibs The problem with squibs and muggleborn wizards (and those of mixed descendancy) is that I have no way of quantifying them. They will disappear from the calculations anyway, and all I did was state that I assumed that that could happen without drastic consequences for the calculations. The problem is that they could cause interference: How long does a muggleborn wizard live? One of mixed descendacny? A squib? (b) Age distribution Simon J. Branford wrote: --- Christian wrote: "I assume that the demographic distribution agewise is similar, but adjusted with a factor of two (i.e.,the segment of the muggle-population aged 7-8 years in proportion of themuggle-total old is equal to the segment of the wizarding population aged14-16years in proportion to the wizarding total) "I am not sure I agree with this step (I do not think it will make muchdifference to the figures though). It seems to me, that during childhood,wizard children develop at a similar rate to muggle children (age of firstcrush, puberty, etc.). --- I think you misunderstood me here. Ill try to set up an example. The statistics from SSB and GRO that I used, showed the distribution of the entire population of Norway and Scotland respectively, broken down in classes of one year, for a specific date (mean date). The statistics list how many are between 0 and 1 year old, between 1 and 2 years old, etc. They also have gender-breakdowns, ignored in these calculations. In this example, I am taking the optimistic assumption of a muggle life-expectancy of 100 years (gives nice, easy numbers), and that a wizard from the same sample population has a life expectancy twice as long (200 years) Then, the segment of the muggle part of the population that is between 0 and 1 year old, is the segment that has not yeat lived through 1% of its life-expectancy. In the wizarding part, that segment is represented by the sum of those that are between 0 and 1 year old, and those that are between 1 and 2 years old. An 11 years old wizard would then, in this example, have lived through 5.5% of his life-expectancy, equivalent to a 5.5 years old muggle of the same population. To get the number of wizards aged between 11 and 12, I found how large a segment of muggles were aged between 5 and 6, converted to %, and divided in half. Hopefully I cleared this up, though with my luck, it is probably more likely that I just added another smokescreen. The method I employed is crude, and probably contains inaccurasy, but it does give a tool to get a feel for how many wizards there are in Great Britain. 5. HERALDRY Those that are interested in heraldry, should trying looking for a book called (IIRC) The Oxford Guide to Heraldry. It is a very thorough book, with IMO good illustrations. It is written by (again, IIRC) Richmond Herald and Maltravers Herald Extraordinary, both of the College of Arms. It explains a lot about the legalities surrounding heraldry in Britain, and the place of the College of Arms, and of the Lord Lyon King of Arms, in relations to British Government, with which these institutions are associated. I do not believe, however, it mentions, that while the heralds in England (and Scotland) are paid by the Crown, they have not received a payrise since the 1500s or 1600s. Accordingly, the rates charged are somewhat harsh. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Oct 21 00:46:59 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:46:59 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scottish Arms Message-ID: <20001021004659.29180.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4221 One for Scotland, under the Lord Lyon King of Arms, and one for England, Wales and Northern Ireland, under the Earl Marshall. --- Pam Scruton skrev: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski > >I > > forget his title, but the head of the British > College is a > different person and > > is not a legal personage. > > Are you sure there is a British College of Arms? I > didn't think > there was one. An English College, a Scottish > College and a Welsh > College (I believe) and probably and Irish one - but > I'm not sure > about a British one. > > A few years ago British Airways were under threat of > having to > repaint any plane that flew north of the border. > They had obtained > permission from the English heralds for the coat of > arms on the tail > fin but not from the Scottish ones. > > Pam > A half-Welsh Englishwoman who has lived in Scotland > for the past 25 > years > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Oct 21 00:57:32 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 20 Oct 2000 17:57:32 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A couple of things: Message-ID: <20001021005732.20750.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4222 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 01:10:16 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:10:16 -0000 Subject: JKR on CNN Message-ID: <8sqqdo+eg4l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4223 Hi all! JKR is going to be on CNN sometime between 9:00 and 10:00 pm EST Turn on the TV! Scott From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Sat Oct 21 01:14:00 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:14:00 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Book Error Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4224 Eagle-eyed child spots error in Harry Potter book LONDON, Oct 21 (Reuters) - Like most nine-year-olds, Laila Banjar was spellbound by the latest Harry Potter tale of magic -- but she could still spot an error missed by proof readers, editors and even author J.K. Rowling. Banjar was reading "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" for a second time when she came across the glaring mistake -- leading character Crouch, who had gone missing on page 485, had made a sudden, and unplanned, reappearance. The mistake, widely reported in British newspapers on Saturday, appears in the ninth paragraph on page 503 of the 640 page bestseller. Banjar's mother, Tracey, sent an e-mail to the publishers Bloomsbury asking whether the offending sentence, which reads "'Dumbledore, come!' said Crouch angrily.," was a printing error. "Yes, you are right about the error, we have forwarded your e-mail on to the editorial department," Bloomsbury admitted. "We are very upset that this error went unnoticed until after printing." The sentence should have referred to Cornelius Fudge and not Crouch. "I was really surprised when I spotted the mistake and then I jumped for joy when I knew I was right," Banjar, from Somerset in western England, told the Times newspaper. Bloomsbury stressed the mistake was not Rowling's. "Joanne is a complete perfectionist with her book and this mistake crept in during the typesetting stage," publicity director Katie Collins told the Mirror. The book, the fourth in the series about Harry Potter the schoolboy wizard, has been a worldwide phenomenon with the largest initial print run in history. Total sales of the Potter series run into millions of copies. The success of the book has catapulted Rowling to the top of the list of Britain's highest paid women. And another Harry Potter secret is out of the bag. The Mirror reported that Rowling had let slip the title of the fifth book -- Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix -- during an interview on a television show in the U.S. 20:33 10-20-00 From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 01:17:58 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:17:58 -0000 Subject: What about the book 5 title? and Birthday Wishes Message-ID: <8sqqs6+7889@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4225 Happy Birthday Voicelady, hope you had a wonderful day. Now onto more erm, (groping for the right word as not to belitte the importance of Voicelady's B-day...Ahh) mysterious! Now on to more mysterious things... The title of book V. "Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix" Firstly, I must admit, that I really don't think that this makes much sense, but then again neither did any of the others before I read the books...and especially GoF (even AFTER I read it) Secondly, I know that JKR will make it work but I am putting as much into this title as I am into Snape and Hermione having a love affair...Do you get my drift? I think the first thing that popped into my head was the PI order though it was quickly replaced by the idea that is was some type of award/medal/honour. I also like the Idea of a society secret of otherwise- In short I have nothing to really add! Scott From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 21 01:49:52 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:49:52 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scotland (now OT) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001021014952.008faa58@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4226 Christian wrote: >I suspect we may be using the term separate somewhat >differently. With the term separate from England, I >think of the way Massachusetts is separate from >Vermont, for instance. Scotland is not merely a >collective name for a number of counties in the >Northern part of Britain, it is a separate entity in >many ways legally, educationally, the peerage (Scots >nobility has some differences from English nobility, >in some titles, among other things) etc., but not in >other ways (foreign service, the defence forces, >etc.). Actually, from what you're saying, I think we're using the term "separate" in exactly the same way. What I didn't understand is how Scotland can be a separate kingdom when it is ruled by the same monarch as England. It is a separate country, yes, with the differences you've described, but it is part of a united kingdom. In fact, I think the last time it had a separate monarch, it was actually the same person - James I of England was also James VI of Scotland, and that was back in the C17. I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet, to be honest. I liked your table of contents, by the way. We certainly knew we were in for a long post there! Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 01:53:58 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:53:58 -0000 Subject: So far at yahoo In-Reply-To: <39F0E069.8344A1AE@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8sqsvm+uauq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4227 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Susan McGee wrote: > > > > and something IS 'going on' between Ron and Hermione only Ron > > > "typical boy" doesn't know yet. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank Goodness and JKR...I don't think I could have stood > > another two years of THAT discussion > > > > Ah . . . I assume by "THAT discussion," you are referring to the H/H vs. > R/H debates. Oh, Of course not.. If you think the H/H discussions are out of commission > based on her admission that Ron doesn't know he has feelings for > Hermione, you are mistaken. Plus, she didn't say that Hermione > returns the feelings or that they would date or that it would work. > Most of us H/H'ers think R & H might date at Hogwarts. It just won't > work. Discussions continue. Sorry to disappoint you & all that.... > > But now that you bring it up, she didn't say JUST that Ron doesn't know he has feelings for her, she said "something was going on BETWEEN them" that Ron was unaware of.....doesn't between imply reciprocity..I think I'm going to set up betting on this one... I could make a pile of money Susan From kathleen at carr.org Sat Oct 21 02:01:35 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:01:35 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: So far at yahoo Message-ID: <200010210203.e9L232U01806@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 4228 >But now that you bring it up, she didn't say JUST that Ron doesn't >know he has feelings for her, she said "something was going on >BETWEEN them" that Ron was unaware of.....doesn't between imply >reciprocity..I think I'm going to set up betting on this one... >I could make a pile of money > >Susan I'm in for a thousand Galleons on R/H! Kathy From joym999 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 02:22:31 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:22:31 -0000 Subject: Occams Razor Message-ID: <8squl7+glca@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4229 One thing I have learned from the recent round of JKR chats is that we (me, anyway) have made some of the mysteries far more complex than they are. It turns out, for all my rationalizing to the contrary, that the Marauders (probably) and Lily and Hagrid were all in Gryffindor. And I swore I would never get into one of those #($*& shipper discussions, but: JKR pretty much said in todays chat that Ron and Hermione will become a couple. She has CLEARLY hinted at it since the first book, too. SOMETIMES THE SIMPLEST EXPLANATION IS THE ONE THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE!!!!!!!!! These are not romances, the books will end when they are all only 17 years old, and I doubt there will be any time for complicated romantic pairing and unpairing and all the related angst (thank goodness). So stop with the Hermione and Harry shipping, already. (Like this is really going to stop it. Sigh. ) And there is also, clearly, stuff that JKR is just not paying attention to - since many parts of the books (the size of the common rooms, the number of earmuffs, brooms, cauldrons, carriages, tables at the dance, etc.) are not consistent with there being 1000 Hogwarts students. I think we will just have to learn to live with these little inconsistencies. Or the big ones. I suspect if we could ask JKR why Hagrid said that there wasnt a wizard that didnt go bad who wasnt in Slytherin, at a time when everyone thought Sirius Black was a dark wizard, that she would simply say that Hagrid was wrong. Simple. End of story. On the other hand, who would have thought that Sirius Black was a good guy? And that Snape is a good guy? Arrrrgggggghhhhh. I will never figure it all out. -- Joywitch From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 02:24:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:24:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Book Error References: Message-ID: <39F0FE65.E96D52A3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4230 Hi, guys. In the American edition it's on page 580, the last page of chapter 29, and it's been fixed (at least in mine) to read Fudge, as it should. --Amanda, no life but flipping thru these books HarryPotterJrs at aol.com wrote: > Eagle-eyed child spots error in Harry Potter book > > > LONDON, Oct 21 (Reuters) - Like most nine-year-olds, Laila Banjar was > spellbound by the latest Harry Potter tale of magic -- but she could still > spot an error missed by proof readers, editors and even author J.K. Rowling. > > Banjar was reading "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" for a second time > when she came across the glaring mistake -- leading character Crouch, who had > gone missing on page 485, had made a sudden, and unplanned, reappearance. > > The mistake, widely reported in British newspapers on Saturday, appears in > the ninth paragraph on page 503 of the 640 page bestseller. > > Banjar's mother, Tracey, sent an e-mail to the publishers Bloomsbury asking > whether the offending sentence, which reads "'Dumbledore, come!' said Crouch > angrily.," was a printing error. > > "Yes, you are right about the error, we have forwarded your e-mail on to the > editorial department," Bloomsbury admitted. > > "We are very upset that this error went unnoticed until after printing." > > The sentence should have referred to Cornelius Fudge and not Crouch. > > "I was really surprised when I spotted the mistake and then I jumped for joy > when I knew I was right," Banjar, from Somerset in western England, told the > Times newspaper. > > Bloomsbury stressed the mistake was not Rowling's. > > "Joanne is a complete perfectionist with her book and this mistake crept in > during the typesetting stage," publicity director Katie Collins told the > Mirror. > > The book, the fourth in the series about Harry Potter the schoolboy wizard, > has been a worldwide phenomenon with the largest initial print run in > history. Total sales of the Potter series run into millions of copies. > > The success of the book has catapulted Rowling to the top of the list of > Britain's highest paid women. > > And another Harry Potter secret is out of the bag. The Mirror reported that > Rowling had let slip the title of the fifth book -- Harry Potter and the > Order of the Phoenix -- during an interview on a television show in the U.S. > > 20:33 10-20-00 > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 02:35:40 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:35:40 -0500 Subject: We figured it out! Message-ID: <39F100FC.60FC97E9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4231 Yay! My one and only non-virtual friend who's read the Potter books is over here tonight, and she has (I think) solved the question of why nobody else noticed "Peter Pettigrew" on the Marauder's Map. 1. Me: even if Scabbers were at Hogwarts with Percy, too, and thus within the time that Fred and George were using the Map, they'd have been unlikely to check their dormitory for lurking dangers. They were checking hallways and offices and such. They didn't have to check for people who might catch them sneaking around their own rooms. 2. Her (Anne, by the way): even if Fred and George did, for some reason, see "Peter Pettigrew" someplace on the map, they would not know who he was. We've already discussed the general non-informed status of the children about the Voldemort years. Wizard parents were having to explain to their kids who Sirius Black was; why would anyone have known the name of his supposed victim? (before Harry and company learn about it in book 3). 3. Me: for the same reason Fred and George probably never noticed him, Harry probably wouldn't have. You simply don't check for lurking nasty maintenance men or Snapes in your own rooms. And Scabbers spent most of the time in book 3 hiding in their room, because Crookshanks was after him and it was the only (reasonably) safe place. Lupin only saw him on the map when he was out with Ron after they'd found him at Hagrid's. So, have we solved this? I was delighted when she pointed out such an obvious, overlooked thing, that the *users* of the map would not have recognized the name. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 02:43:15 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:43:15 -0000 Subject: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall In-Reply-To: <8sqct6+rv79@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sqvs3+4sic@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4232 In response to the question -- what honorific to use for Joanne Rowlings.....in the U.S.A. for women it's either Miss, Ms. or Mrs. I don't know which JKR refers. Here, if you are talking about someone's books on a list, it's considerd courteous to use JKR or Rowlings. (JKR does a magnificent job at...Rowlings captures the essence of bureaucracy in her portrayal of Cornelius Fudge) However, if we were to talk about meeting her, I would use an honorific, probably Ms. until I learned what her preference was. (I am very excited about meeting Ms. Rowlings in person!) She uses Miss and Mrs. in the books (is that right?) so perhaps she prefers Mrs. What is her former husband's last name? (In the U.S., if you're divorced and retain your former husband's last name, you may still be addressed as Mrs. If you revert to your birth name, you would probably be addressed as Ms. Women who never change their name usually prefer Ms.) From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 02:56:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 02:56:38 -0000 Subject: Harry's blood; Harry's uniqueness In-Reply-To: <8sqina+evkc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sr0l6+4rr1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4233 > > TR jr. > learned that Lily's love is what saved Harry the first time, and this > info is why he wanted Harry's blood in GoF, to counteract > the 'protection' Harry had from her love. I know it's not spelled > out that that's why he wants H's blood, as opposed to any wizard's; > any wizard's blood would help bring him back, but with H's he could > overcome one of the protective barriers. Plus, while I believe > Harry is always Vold's target, getting Dumble out of the way is an > important part of his plan to conquer Harry But why Harry? Just because he "lived" and was (until Rita Skeeter) the toast of the Wizard/Witch world? I think..that it is very significant that Voldemort was on his way to murder Harry, and Lily "got in the way". Voldemort loves to kill and there is seemingly no reason why he didn't kill Lily first, and then kill Harry. But doesn't Lily plead with him to kill her first (my GofF is missing!) Harry was his target. (Reminds me of Herod and his quest to kill Jesus) Is there a prophecy that Harry will grow up to destroy Voldemort? I would guess that Harry is one of/or the last remaining DESCENDANT (not ancestor) of Godric Gryffindor..and that oooh, perhaps Salazar Slytherin passed on some magical ability to Voldemort and GG passed some on to Harry, and the conflict between Voldemort and Harry is a reflection of the conflict between Salazar and Godric. As such, the Sorting Hat (which, remember, is what GG left to sort the students after his death, compare it to Riddle's diary)gave Harry the sword of GG. OR maybe AD is also a descendant of GG and in a ritual of the Order of the Phoenix passes on some special ability (now ***I*** am referring to Katherine Kurtz) to HP. So perhaps we will have the showdown at the OK corral between the last descendant of SS and the last descendant of GG. Or maybe I should go write some fan fiction. From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 21 03:13:47 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:13:47 -0500 Subject: JKR Chats & Such (Was Occams Razor) References: <8squl7+glca@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F109EB.C26DCCD7@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4234 Hi: Wasn't sure what "Occams Razor" referred to so I changed the subject line. Joywitch wrote: > One thing I have learned from the recent round of JKR chats is that > we (me, anyway) have made some of the mysteries far more complex than > they are. It turns out, for all my rationalizing to the contrary, > that the Marauders (probably) and Lily and Hagrid were all in > Gryffindor. Well, she did seem to give the impression that you'd be crazy to think that any of the "good guys" were in any House other than Hogwarts. But, I'm firmly convinced that *all* the chats & interviews this week were very much directed at the young kids. So, I don't think she *chose* to answer anything that was all that complex. Or, she made the things that she did answer seem "obvious." But, I think that the intended audience of the chats probably drove this result. > And I swore I would never get into one of those #($*& shipper > discussions, but: JKR pretty much said in todays chat that Ron and > Hermione will become a couple. She has CLEARLY hinted at it since > the first book, too. SOMETIMES THE SIMPLEST EXPLANATION IS THE ONE > THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE!!!!!!!!! And sometimes JKR makes something look very obvious & then turns around & does exactly the opposite too. Sometimes the simplest explanation turns out to be the WRONG explanation! > These are not romances, the books will end when they are all only 17 > years old, and I doubt there will be any time for complicated > romantic pairing and unpairing and all the related angst (thank > goodness). So stop with the Hermione and Harry shipping, already. > (Like this is really going to stop it. Sigh. ) Uh, no, it won't stop it because it's one of your list-mom's favorite topics. And, she's 100% Harry & Hermione shipper. So sorry if this offends you. Delete the shippy ones if you don't want to read them. But, I consider the debates ON-topic. I do agree that the books will end before their ultimate love-lives get resolved. This makes it nice -- I'll just imagine that it all happens just like in PoU. :--) Use your delete keys folks -- (I'll concede that the *endless* posts about Snape really don't hold much interest for me; I delete most of them now). But, I'd never declare Snape & all his various complexities to be off-topic. > And there is also, clearly, stuff that JKR is just not paying > attention to - since many parts of the books (the size of the common > rooms, the number of earmuffs, brooms, cauldrons, carriages, tables > at the dance, etc.) are not consistent with there being 1000 Hogwarts > students. I think we will just have to learn to live with these > little inconsistencies. Or the big ones. What else are we going to talk about for 2 yrs if not inconsistencies? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 03:11:50 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:11:50 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) In-Reply-To: <8sqkch+ojfq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sr1hm+uk66@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4235 >>Kelly wrote- >>Someone posted that JKR said that Hagrid was in Gryff.; > didn't it say Hagrid was in Huff in one of the books? Harry > says "I'll probably be in Huff," and doesn't Hagrid say "~I~ was in > Huff..." or something like that? I could swear I saw this somewhere, > maybe not that exchange, but that it's stated that Hagrid was in > Huff. Am I nuts? All right, all right, we know the answer to that > one, keep your comments to yourselves... ;o] Well don't feel bad, I already know that I'm completly daffy and I agree with you here! I KNOW (well of course I could be wrong) that it said Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, or else STRONGLY implied (I'm thinking the former as we both deduced this...) The pasage to which you refered is this... ******* "And what are Slytherin and Hufflepuff?" "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are a bunch o' duffers but-" I bet I'm in Hufflepuff," said Harry. "Better in Hufflepuff than in Slytherin," said Hagrid darkly... ***** Hagrid's "but-" could easily of been "I was in Hufflepuff." or "Your Dad was in Hufflepuff" (though I feel JKR has indirectly disproved the latter.) Another interesting thing is that the British Subject verb agreement (Hufflepuff are) is used and not (Hufflepuff is) which is the American way. ( and if this is wrong just remember I'm not the best at grammar) Errr, anyway can anybody clear up this rather shadowy assumption that Hagrid was in Hufflepuff (besides the JKR chat)... I just can't stop think ing that it was SOMEWHERE in CoS. I shall continue to peruse but if anyone knows anything.... Scott From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 03:18:03 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:18:03 -0000 Subject: derivation of magus Message-ID: <8sr1tb+occs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4236 Actually it's both Latin AND Greek. Latin magus Greek magos Old Persian magus >From Liddell, Scott Ancient Greek - magos, maga a Magus, Magian one of a Median tribe one of the wise of Persia who interprets dreams any enchanter or wizard in a bad sense a juggler or imposter From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 21 03:06:44 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:06:44 -0700 Subject: Catimagus * Dobby * Thanks Message-ID: <39F10842.BA6ED8EB@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4237 *** Maybe McGonagall was surprised that Dumbledore recognized her in cat form because, even after all those years of *being* a cat, she was still under the misapprehension that all cats look alike. Actually, there are a number of orange tabbies (not *all* orange tabbies!) who *do* look alike, and it is possible that her cat form is one of them. *** There has been speculation that (a) Malfoy sent Dobby to keep Harry away from Hogwarts because 'Quite apart from anything else, houseelves aren't normally allowed to use their magic without their owner's permission.' I think that Dobby went on his own initiative to protect Harry, having learned from overhearing Malfoy conversations that the evil diary plot was directed against Harry. Dobby made it quite clear that the Malfoys (at least this current generation of Malfoys, and the name suggests that it runs in the family) are SO disgusting that even traditional, instinctive, House Elf loyalty isn't enough to keep him from speaking ill of them and revealing their secrets, even tho' every time he does so, he has to punish himself by closing the oven door on his head or ironing his hands. (I do that last every time I try to iron, which is why ironing is *Tim*'s chore, and I have nothing to punish myself for!) I like to think that it was Malfoy loathsomeness that set Dobby on the path to wanting freedom, but I suppose it is possible that Dobby had a freedom-seeking mutation made him able to be disgusted by Malfoy evil. (i.e. which is cause and which is effect?) *** Thanks to everyone who posts chatscripts, links to interviews, or summaries of TV show interviews, with JKR. If it weren't for you nice people, I would be left out of the fun. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Oct 21 04:01:19 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:01:19 -0000 Subject: Occams Razor In-Reply-To: <8squl7+glca@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8sr4ef+hs5g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4238 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: "And there is also, clearly, stuff that JKR is just not paying attention to - since many parts of the books (the size of the common rooms, the number of earmuffs, brooms, cauldrons, carriages, tables at the dance, etc.) are not consistent with there being 1000 Hogwarts students. I think we will just have to learn to live with these little inconsistencies. Or the big ones." This just occurred to me. Why do we assume that All of Gryffindors in Harry's year have classes at the same time? With a large group of kids (approximately 140 a year)it would not be unreasonable to split them up into more manageable groups. 10 Gryffs and 10 Slyths in Potions at a time instead of 140 all at once, for example. This would explain why we don't see all the rest of Harry's classmates. They simply have different schedules. Trina (who is really tired, but very excited to learn that Hermione's b-day is on the 19th of Sept, one day after hers) From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 21 04:03:35 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:03:35 -0000 Subject: More gay discussion In-Reply-To: <39F03337.EE9A1D5E@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8sr4in+ibs0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4239 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > You see a same sex couple, and you think they're roommates," unless > you see them holding hands, and then you think they're gay" -- but > how do you make that transition unless you see them holding hands? > And how do you get the point across, particularly, to a child? I'm about to utter a heresy against the 'show it, don't tell it' theology of fiction writing (while simultaneously dragging out a thread that everyone is tired of), but HOW ABOUT USING WORDS? I mean, in real life, one way that I learn that a same-sex couple is not just roommates is when the one of them whom I know introduces me to "my spouse": the other partner. One time I even had to ask a man: "Is Jeff your roommate or your spouse?" For example, suppose she wanted to include a token gay for reasons of preachiness (I don't think that is what she wants to do). She could choose that Bill Weasley (who has already been introduced as a nice guy) will be the token gay. Someone already rumored that some future volume will have adventures set in Egypt, which has already been foreshadowed by Bill's job. It is not too much to hope that Bill would does something heroic in adventure. If he survives being heroic, his mother could go back to nagging him to marry a nice witch and give her grandchildren (didn't she do that in GoF, or was it just in fanfic?) and he could tell her that he has already found the person with whom he wants to spend the rest of his life and it isn't a witch, it's a wizard. Or if he unfortunately died of being heroic, there could be an embarrassing scene when both the bereaved boyfriend and the bereaved mother start arranging the funeral. From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 04:27:53 2000 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:27:53 -0000 Subject: Pullman's books. was Re: a couple of things In-Reply-To: <20001021005732.20750.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <8sr609+t9cb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4240 voicelady said: > On to Pullman's series: these are supposed to be kids' books?!? > I think they would be rather difficult for kids. Well.... not children's literature, exactly, but young adult fiction. Aimed to a higher aged audience than HP, but still not old enough to qualify for the NYT Adult list. ;) Difficult, though, yes. They have got a lot of older themes in them (not to mention vocabulary and sentence structure!), but I think the fact that the main character(s) has/have not even reached puberty yet is what puts them in the "younger readers" category. Personally, I think these books should be on the adult shelf, too. Don't take them out of the kids' areas... it gives them something to "reach" for. I wish they'd been around when I was a YA. Jen (who is actually a young adult now (25), but doesn't think she's young enough to fit in the typical YA demographic...) From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 04:44:11 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:44:11 -0000 Subject: More gay discussion, lots, and I'll stop now In-Reply-To: <39EF170D.C5C6C2E0@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sr6ur+8qob@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4241 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Or it implies that the reader consider lesbians and gays to > > be part of the population and is curious why they are not in the book > > Amanda: And as I pointed out in an earlier post, they may well *be* in there. JKR > does not write big neon signs to point out the characteristics of her > characters, she just writes the characters. If some aspect of their > personality, such as sexual orientation, becomes relevant to the story, it > is included; if not, it may not be mentioned. Susan: Except for the married couples, and the adolescents with crushes, and those who are asking others on dates.... So we have a whole lots of people whose sexual orientation is mentioned and they are all heterosexual. > Amanda: > > > Myself, I think that physical relationships and the physical adult > > > expressions of love are not part of the scope of these books. > > Susan: > > uh? We hear about Harry's crush on Cho; Viktor's infatuation with > > Hermione; the boys' physical response to the Veela...... > Amanda: > These are not adult expressions of physical love; they are adolescent > stirrings. So far the most involved actual physical contact with sexual > intent which we have seen is people falling out of rosebushes when Snape > goes by. Harry's asking Cho to the dance is the closest we've gotten to a > love scene. Even the married couples don't do much schmoozing onscreen. It's > not relevant to the story, at least not so far. > Susan: great. Why not two girls falling out of rosebushes, one boy asking another to the Yule Ball, and two same gender partners who live together? Adolescent same gender stirrings as well as opposite gender? Susan: > > Why do you assume that including a lesbian/gay character involves > > "physical relationships" and the "physical adult expressions of love"? > > when having acknowledged heterosexual couples -- the Dursleys, the > > Potters, the Lestranges, the Crouches, doesn't? > >Amanda: Of course the acknowledged heterosexual characters imply sex offscreen. The > children make it a certainty. Whatever it may imply for our cultural > awareness, the fact of the matter is that approaching it as a writer she > doesn't *need* to put any sort of scene or evidence for heterosexual > characters, she can let it be assumed. Susan: Nor does she need to put any sort of "scene" or "evidence" for lesbian/gay characters, she can just state that they are lesbian or gay. > Amanda: > The problem I've been addressing is how to identify a character as gay both > clearly and satisfactorily without a physical relationship being identified > or implied. It is a physical preference, and the nuts-and-bolts of physical > relationships are not things that have shown up in these books. I'm not > anticipating a Harry/Sirius "birds and the bees" scene either. It's just not > what the story is dealing with. > > Simply stating a character's gayness in passing, without showing that > character living it, is not what I think the "role model" seekers want. Susan: Well, we don't know what all we "role model" seekers want. Please don't be dismissive of this. There are lesbian and gay youth who are terribly isolated and desperate. It's fine to have a character identified as lesbian and gay without "living it" which I assume from your past posts means identifying physical intimacy. There are plenty of single lesbians and single gay men and single bisexuals and single transgendered people who are not having sex. It's fine to say Bob, who was gay, didn't do well in Potions. Amanda: " Nor > am I sure anything less than total identification as gay would be enough." Susan: Not true. Lots of adolescents experiment with same gender crushes, etc. but end up in mixed gender partnerships. It would be fine to have someone figuring that out. Amanda: > Nobody answered an earlier question, as to whether a same- sex couple living > together, with or without children, would be the "role model" wanted unless > it were explicitly identified that they were gay. Well, I'd like them explicitly identified. But Lois and Jane living together with their children Dick and Linda who come home and kiss each other on the cheek and say "how was your day, you look tired" would be fine. Having Joe and Bob introduced as partners would be fine. Amanda: > JKR seems to prefer simply describing her characters and letting us > experience them, which is how we meet people, rather than handing us the > labels outright. Susan: Except for all the married couples, Percy and Penelope kissing, and all the boys asking all the girls to the Ball, and all the girls asking all the boys. Amanda: So, how to show us a gay person within the scope of these > books, without handing us the label? Susan: Have a boy have a crush on a boy; have a girl ask a girl to the Yule ball. Whatever has happened with mixed gender pairings could happen with same gender pairings Amanda: otypical tags are not what I mean; > should two men kiss? Exchange a lingering hug? Hold hands? Etc. And if she > doesn't *show* us a gay person, how then to go ahead and hand us the label? > It's a physical preference, how detailed do you get? Etc. Either way it > really doesn't seem relevant to the story underway, and would distract from > it. > Susan: Holding hands is nice! Saying this character is gay or lesbian would distract YOU from the story Perhaps it would distract other heterosexuals from the story, those who are used to seeing only mixed gender relationships/attractions portrayed, and anything outside that as disturbing or discordant or just not normal (like flesh colored bandaids being black. Maybe not. It probably wouldn't distract lesbians and gays from the story. > Susan: > > Again, why do you assume that "lesbian/gay relationships" would > > involve sex while heterosexual ones just involve love? > > There is an absolute double standard here. > Amanda: > Where did you get *that*? I don't think the married couples here have taken > any sort of vows of celibacy; I don't think the Weasleys live together > because Arthur loves Molly's cooking. Sure, they involve sex. But as I said, > portrayal of heterosexual characters is easy, since the physical aspects can > be assumed without addressing it directly. Susan: And portrayal of lesbian and gay characters can be portrayed easily by identifying them as lesbians or gays. That does not addres the physical aspects directly ANY MORE THAN SAYING THAT SOMEONE IS MARRIED addresses the physical aspects directly. One assumes that married couples have sex; one assumes that two people who are identified as lesbians or gay male couples have sex. > From summers.65 at osu.edu Sat Oct 21 05:45:09 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:45:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pullman's books. was Re: a couple of things Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4242 The publishers don't have any easier time figuring out the age target of Pullman's books. In my store, the hardcover and quality paperback editions of Golden Compass are Science Fiction. The mass market paperback is Young Adult fiction. Go figure. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "The Professor and the Madman" by Simon Winchester "24 Hours" by Greg Iles *************************************************** From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 04:49:39 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:49:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What that book title might also refer to References: <8spuuo+5trp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F12063.2A07C86C@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4243 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > Re: The "Order" of the Phoenix > > Of course, it means order as in a religious order or the Order of > Merlin 1/c, that sort of thing. > > Or maybe, just maybe, it refers to the order of spells coming out of > a phoenix-feather-equiped wand caught in Priori Incantatem... > I love all these suggested glosses on JKR's proposed title. The more possible interpretations a title can have, in my experience, the better. Peg From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 04:47:39 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:47:39 -0000 Subject: More gay discussion, lots, and I'll stop now In-Reply-To: <39EF170D.C5C6C2E0@texas.net> Message-ID: <8sr75b+43r3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4244 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: Amanda: > And certainly gay relationships involve love. Jeez, how else are they relationships? At least in my psyche, love is essential before sex can even > be contemplated. But is a deep love between characters of the same sex > enough to identify them to readers as "gay"? Susan: no Amanda: I don't know that it should be, > or would be accurate. Because I love several ladies very, very much and > would walk through fire for them--but I don't have the slightest interest in > a physical expression of it with them, and am very much heterosexual. The > same for my husband--"shield brother" friends. Perhaps we don't have the > same definitions of gay or lesbian? Susan: seems as if we do I brought up the physical aspects > because I considered that a physical component of some sort would have to be > included so that the reader would have no doubt that this is, indeed, a gay > character. Susan: instead of just referring to them as lesbian or gay. Or just saying that "Joe had a real crush on Paul and wanted to ask him to the Yule Ball". No physical component there. From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 21 04:50:38 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 04:50:38 -0000 Subject: casting and Re: [HPforGrownups] movie in oxford (update) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8sr7au+u23h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4245 > > Simon (who is trying to convince more people to read the books) You mean, people who are not on this list who have not yet read the books... From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:00:10 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:00:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mysteries of McGonagall References: <1.5.4.32.20001020164628.008e9d94@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <39F08404.F35C6E1F@texas.net> Message-ID: <39F122DA.57063849@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4246 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Neil Ward wrote: > > > I have always found it strange that she asked him how he knew it was her? > > (After changing from cat to > > >Professor). Has Dumbledore never seen her in her cat form? After all > > those years? > > > > Yes, I agree. I posted something on that very point ages ago. Is Dumbledore > > *that* lacking in observation? Perhaps he left that knowledge in his > > Pensieve and forgot to put it back in his head. > > Even odder, considering he was the Transfiguration teacher prior to his > headmastership. I've always had a sense that the first chapter of that first book felt sort of "tentative" to me, and that it raised implications that JKR just didn't go back and fix when she had finished the book. Something about McGonagall and Dumbledore's characterization felt a little bit different from the way they felt in the rest of the book; nothing I could quite put my finger on. I don't know about JKR, but on both my novels, I've found the opening chapter to be particularly difficult. LOTS of writing/doodling with possible starts. I think I remember reading that M. Mitchell rewrote the first chapter to Gone with the Wind over eighty times. And PARTICULARLY when you're writing your first novel, you learn so much about writing in the process, that your control and writing ability can be totally different by the time you finish. (Although, yes, I know, SS/PS wasn't technically JKR's first novel--I believe she'd finished two other manuscripts--but it was the first one she shepherded through the revision/editing/copyediting/publishing process.) All I'm suggesting is that since it was the first chapter of her first novel, she might not have had the ability/perspective to revise some of these strange things to make them totally consistent. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:08:56 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:08:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] B&N Chat References: <39F09922.934391A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F124E8.D21B1B67@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4247 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Overall, I was very disappointed by all the JKR events this week. > Perhaps I put too much time & energy into it, but it was extremely > disappointing to me that the same questions & themes were discussed over > & over & over & over again. I very much believe it was all set-up . . . > just publicity stunts, mainly geared to young kids. I get the impression that JKR really is perplexed by the public's interest in her, and that she's not a smarmy ham (like Lockhart) so she doesn't thrive on on author appearances, but she has a particularly soft spot for the kids, and she's thinking of them particularly whe she does publicity. So she's perhaps a bit more patient with repetitive questions than we would be. And I really do respect that. Greedy adults that we are, we want our questions answered right now, with no wasted time, thank you very much. But what she's interested in responding to the most is the starry-eyed kids who are just discovering books for the first time. For them, the questions they ask are new, although she's heard them a million times. I'm glad, at least, that she seems to be patient with them, even if we find it difficult. Her books have given so much joy to so many kids (as well as us) that I would be sorry indeed if she started acting like a prima donna at author appearances. Peg From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 21 05:06:19 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 05:06:19 -0000 Subject: What that book title might also refer to In-Reply-To: <39F12063.2A07C86C@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8sr88b+jou4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4248 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > I love all these suggested glosses on JKR's proposed title. The > more possible interpretations a title can have, in my experience, > the better. Here's another *possible*: a command given by a phoenix From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:13:00 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:13:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Apparating (was pregnant animagi) References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> <39EE0E0B.A5FD38FB@alumni.upenn.edu> <000401c039fc$31cc7a80$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> <39EF6786.C8AC308B@texas.net> <00ee01c03ad4$6483a240$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39F125DC.7D3576F2@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4249 Jinx wrote: > > What I was thinking was that inanimate objects--clothes, purses, hairpins, > > wands, etc.--apparently travel with the spell-caster. But I'm not sure > another > > animate object would. Even in utero, a baby would be a different animate > object. > > So that's what gave rise to the question. > > > > --Amanda > > In most cases, I wouldn't have thought Apparating does let you take other > people with you. We really haven't been told, one way or another. We know that port keys can carry a person even if they're not touching the port key directly, as long as they're touching someone touching the port key (i.e., Harry bringing back Cedric's body). Why not apparating? But I agree, the relationship between fetus and mother is different than two separate people in transportation spells. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:15:10 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:15:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 title References: <011f01c03ae3$2e955660$0200a8c0@jonnyold> Message-ID: <39F1265E.A6152AB5@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4250 Ben Leigh wrote: > HI all > > I'm not impressed with the title! I have a feeling that's the "working" title like Doomspell tournement was. I think JK will change the title > > Ben What do you dislike about it? Or is it just a gut feeling? Maybe it will grow on you. I liked it right away, but then I'm a sucker for phoenixes (see my last 7 Heavenly virtue message about Fawkes being used as a symbol for hope--message #3660). Peg >>> No, that's my sister. I'm La Belle Dame Sans a Reasonably Cooperative Attitude. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:25:20 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:25:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Working Titles (Slightly OT: Was Book 5 title) References: <011f01c03ae3$2e955660$0200a8c0@jonnyold> Message-ID: <39F128C0.3473A68E@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4251 Ben Leigh wrote: > HI all > > I'm not impressed with the title! I have a feeling that's the "working" title like Doomspell tournement was. I think JK will change the title > Working titles can be an opportunity for a lot of fun for a writer. I've mentioned working in a writing group with Patricia C. Wrede. The working title for one of her Magic Forest books which we critiqued was _Bowling for Dragons_ Pat always said you can get an idea of an author's progress on whatever she's working on at the moment by asking her what she's calling it right now. The progress, Pat says, goes: The Book The Stupid Book The Damn Book The G_damn Book The F_ing Book The M_f_ing Book The M_f_ing Book from hell. . . You get the idea. It goes on from there. I've used many of these "working book titles" myself about my own fiction. Cheers, Peg >>>> Sola plura verba hic liber requiret (That's my own personal Latin motto, which I use when I'm in the middle of a novel. It means "The only thing this book needs is more words.") From summers.65 at osu.edu Sat Oct 21 06:38:11 2000 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:38:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4252 >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: >> >> I love all these suggested glosses on JKR's proposed title. The >> more possible interpretations a title can have, in my experience, >> the better. > >Here's another *possible*: a command given by a phoenix > Or a nice salmon steak with rice pilaf requested by a phoenix. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Vile, Cold-Blooded Piece of Toast" Summers I'm not loafing. I work so fast I'm always finished. Last movie seen: "High Fidelity" Discman's spinning: "Very" Pet Shop Boys Current book: "The Professor and the Madman" by Simon Winchester "24 Hours" by Greg Iles *************************************************** From klaatu at primenet.com Sat Oct 21 05:45:35 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:45:35 -0700 Subject: Book 5 Title Meanings Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4253 I quote from the JKR interview entitled "Fire Storm" (Entertainment Weekly, Sept 7, 2000) in which she says: "...there are places in the world that I've been planning for so long and thinking about for so long that we haven't yet explored, and it's great fun. That will happen in book 5, too; we go into a whole new area, physically, an area you've never seen before, a magical world." And now the working title of "Order of the Phoenix" suggests to me that perhaps Harry is going to go somewhere ('a whole new area, physically... a magical world'} to receive specialized training and perhaps be inducted into a secret magical society. Perhaps his parents were members, as well as all of Dumbledore's "old gang" -- a sort of "counterpart" to the Death Eaters. This would lead to the explanations (finally!) of what his parents (and others) were doing that made them a target for Voldemort. Of course, the title may end up to be something completely different, just to foil pirates and other unscrupulous people from making illegal copies or merchandise ahead of time. What better way to expose counterfeiters than to announce a title ahead of time and then change it at the last minute. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:41:20 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:41:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pullman's books. was Re: a couple of things References: <8sr609+t9cb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F12C7F.B6F1EA22@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4254 Jen Piersol wrote: > voicelady said: > > > On to Pullman's series: these are supposed to be kids' books?!? > > I think they would be rather difficult for kids. > > Well.... not children's literature, exactly, but young adult > fiction. Aimed to a higher aged audience than HP, but still > not old enough to qualify for the NYT Adult list. ;) Difficult, > though, yes. They have got a lot of older themes in them (not > to mention vocabulary and sentence structure!), but I think > the fact that the main character(s) has/have not even reached > puberty yet is what puts them in the "younger readers" category. > Personally, I think these books should be on the adult shelf, > too. Don't take them out of the kids' areas... it gives them > something to "reach" for. > > I wish they'd been around when I was a YA. > > Jen (who is actually a young adult now (25), but doesn't think > she's young enough to fit in the typical YA demographic...) I am definitely going to have to get these books. My best friend Kij Johnson (see her latest, _The Fox Woman_ by Tor Books) and I talk by phone every Sunday (we live across the country from each other) but she missed our regularly scheduled call this week because she was bawling over the last book in the trilogy. She doesn't tend to rave about books indiscriminately, so I'm planning on picking them up. Peg Who thinks one possible way to wean herself off her repetitive HP reading jag is to find new authors she hasn't read before. Radical idea! It's also a great way to avoid writing her next novel. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:49:14 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:49:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to References: Message-ID: <39F12E5A.393F2403@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4255 summers.65 at osu.edu wrote: > >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > >> > >> I love all these suggested glosses on JKR's proposed title. The > >> more possible interpretations a title can have, in my experience, > >> the better. > > > >Here's another *possible*: a command given by a phoenix > > > Or a nice salmon steak with rice pilaf requested by a phoenix. > > Lori ROTFL! Have to admit . . . hadn't thought of that one. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 05:52:56 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 00:52:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Occam's Razor References: <8squl7+glca@eGroups.com> <39F109EB.C26DCCD7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F12F38.1F3F0FDC@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4256 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi: > > Wasn't sure what "Occams Razor" referred to so I changed the subject > line. The simplest explanation is generally the best. For a nicely complete explanation, see: http://www.weburbia.com/physics/occam.html Peg From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Sat Oct 21 07:23:23 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:23:23 -0000 Subject: Book 5 Title Meanings - symbolism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8srg9b+4j70@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4257 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > And now the working title of "Order of the Phoenix" suggests to me > that perhaps Harry is going to go somewhere ('a whole new area, > physically... a magical world'} to receive specialized training and > perhaps be inducted into a secret magical society. Perhaps his > parents were members, as well as all of Dumbledore's "old gang" -- > a sort of "counterpart" to the Death Eaters. This would lead to the > explanations (finally!) of what his parents (and others) were doing > that made them a target for Voldemort. I like this interpretation, not least because I used the phoenix in my fanfic as the symbol of the League Against Voldemort! Trying to pre-empt JKR is still part of the fun of fanfiction. What's special about phoenixes in JKR's world? I think it's this we have to look at rather than other external meanings of a phoenix. So, we have healing tears, immense strength, complete and utter loyalty and of course the life-death-rebirth cycle as the symbolic attributes of the Order of the Phoenix. The loyalty is especially important, I think. I would suggest that a member of the Order of the Phoenix would definitely hold loyalty as one of the most important virtues (c.f. Peg's essays on loyalty). Healing tears. Stretching it a bit, perhaps, but possibly the OP believes that by its actions it will heal the world of the troubles caused by Voldie. The immense strength - well, if the OP is Dumbledore's group dedicated to fighting Voldie, we can hope that it does have this strength! And finally the central idea of a phoenix, that it may die in flames but it is reborn again from the ashes. Clear symbolism of perseverance, hope and indeed of victory. That's my interpretation of the Order of the Phoenix, anyway. Though knowing my luck it'll turn out Lori with her restaurant order is right! -Blaise. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 07:56:27 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:56:27 +0100 Subject: Movie in Oxford Message-ID: <003601c03b39$95a706e0$96997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4258 Blaise wrote: >I read in the Cherwell this evening that they're definitely filming HP at Christ Church - there was something about the meadow and approach to the college which I didn't entirely get, not having been there myself, but it said they were using it as the approach to the main gates of Hogwarts. Whether I should trust the Cherwell or not is another question... I'm going after work... I can't really take the day off - but I can at least go to Oxford tonight to see if anything is happening. "Harry peered out of the window. It was getting dark." So... they might well be doing a night shoot. Now the only problem I have is finding Christ Church College... anyone know the postcode? What is the Cherwell? Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 08:24:01 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:24:01 +0100 Subject: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question Message-ID: <003701c03b39$962d4de0$96997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4259 Kelley wrote: >I don't know what I think of "HP and The Order of The Phoenix", (that's it, right?). I'll decide when I hear what the 'other' title might be. I'm one of those that preferred "The Doomspell Tournament" to GoF. I think it is a 'working' title. But it may be a good indicator that we are going to find out more about the magical world outside of Hogwarts - maybe Dumbledore holds a meeting at Hogwarts for all the members of The Order of The Phoenix. >And, sadly, I missed the B&N chat--circumstances beyond my control. Someone posted that JKR said that Hagrid was in Gryff.; didn't it say Hagrid was in Huff in one of the books? Not as far as I can find, having done a quick search of books 1 to 3, all I could find in reference to Hagrid and Hufflepuff was: PS/SS Chapter 5 ============== Hagrid: "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are a lot o'duffers, but --" Harry: "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff" said Harry gloomily. Hagrid: "Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin," said Hagrid darkly. "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You-Know-Who was one." ============== >One more question: Isn't it also stated somewhere that Molly Weasley has brown hair, and that Arthur has the red hair from which all the kids get their's? I was sure of this too, but people keep mentioning Molly's red hair... "Harry swung round. The speaker was a plump woman who was talking to four boys, all with flaming red hair. Each of them was pushing a trunk like Harry's in front of him -- and they had an owl." Can't find anything about Mrs Weasley's hair. But did turn up something interesting: "She was a very pretty woman. She had dark red hair and her eyes -- her eyes are just like mine, Harry thought, edging a little closer to the glass." Could Harry's mum have been a Weasley before being a Potter? Arthurs hair was Red: "He was a thin man, going bald, but the little hair he had was as red as any of his children's." Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 08:30:56 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:30:56 +0100 Subject: HP Book Error Message-ID: <003801c03b39$96f6b860$96997ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4260 >The mistake, widely reported in British newspapers on Saturday, appears in the ninth paragraph on page 503 of the 640 page bestseller. Yes, it sure is. It's in the UK First Edition and 2nd Edition. US edition has the correct wording - Fudge, not Crouch. The UK books have just gone up in price again! Incidentally, anyone with the UK Deluxe First Edition of POA (1000 were printed)... it's now worth over 850 UKPounds - so time to get it insured! Typical... I haven't got that edition :-( Nick. From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Oct 21 08:51:04 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:51:04 +0100 Subject: Movie in Oxford and HP reading Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4261 Blaise wrote: "I read in the Cherwell this evening that they're definitely filming HP at Christ Church - there was something about the meadow and approach to the college which I didn't entirely get, not having been there myself, but it said they were using it as the approach to the main gates of Hogwarts. Whether I should trust the Cherwell or not is another question..." Nick wrote: "I'm going after work... I can't really take the day off - but I can at least go to Oxford tonight to see if anything is happening. "Harry peered out of the window. It was getting dark." So... they might well be doing a night shoot. Now the only problem I have is finding Christ Church College... anyone know the postcode?" I have been through Christ Church meadow, and past the Bodleian, this morning. Broad Street has notices up suspending parking on the road - they say that it will be in use by a film crew (from yesterday until Tuesday). There are movie set-up crews in and around the Bodleian and also in Christ Church meadow. It is fairly chaotic. The following link is to a page that includes maps of Oxford and details of how to get to ChCh (Christ Church - written the Oxford way): http://www.chch.ox.ac.uk/visitor/map.htm The Cherwell is a student newspaper (it is also a river, but in the context used I assume Blaise was referring to the newspaper). I trust information in the Student newspaper with the same high regard that I have for information I get from The Sun (the UK people will understand this). The Cherwell wrote: "The new Harry Potter film is being filmed at Christ Church. The view of the college from Christ Church Meadow will represent the entrance to Hogwarts, where the bespectacled little urchin learns wizardry under the guidance of head Albus Dumbledore." If I believe what is written then I would assume that they are filming the scene where Hagrid arrives at the school with the first years and knocks on the door. What else beyond this I do not know. As before more details as and when I get them. I plan to wander around in a couple of hours to see if anything else is happening. At the moment ther seems to be a distinct lack of people to film. Nick wrote: "Talking of the movie... anyone know which HP site is best for Movie News?" Not one of the sites I have visited has the Oxford filming rumours, and yet it seems to be the talk of Oxford at the moment. I wrote: "Simon (who is trying to convince more people to read the books)" Susan replied: "You mean, people who are not on this list who have not yet read the books..." Well there have been cases of people on this list who have not read the books, or at least not all of them. But it is people who have yet to discover the joy that is the world of Harry Potter that I am convincing to read the books. I have also had some conversations with people I have never talked too before about HP and the movie. See it unites the world. Simon From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Oct 21 09:08:38 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:08:38 -0000 Subject: Harry's blood; Harry's uniqueness In-Reply-To: <8sr0l6+4rr1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8srmem+i8ta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4262 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: Susan: > But why Harry? Just because he "lived" and was (until Rita Skeeter) > the toast of the Wizard/Witch world? Kelley: "Why Harry?" is exactly the question we're wondering. Not only did he live--didn't either Moody or Hagrid say 'no one lived once Vold decided to kill them'? or something like that, but Vold's powers were completely destroyed from his encounter with Harry... Susan: > I think..that it is very significant that Voldemort was on his way > to murder Harry, and Lily "got in the way". Voldemort loves to kill > and there is seemingly no reason why he didn't kill Lily first, and > then kill Harry. But doesn't Lily plead with him to kill her first > (my GofF is missing!) Harry was his target. (Reminds me of Herod and > his quest to kill Jesus) Kelley: Oh, I think this is very significant, too--the fact that Vold says Lily 'didn't have to die', was he being truthful? Susan: > Is there a prophecy that Harry will grow up to destroy Voldemort? Kelley: We don't know; Dumble comments that Trelawney has only made two correct predictions, we aren't told what the first one was... The second one was in PoA, when she goes into her trance, and tells Harry that Vold's servant (Pettigrew) would return to him and help bring him back to power. Dumble says "That brings her total of real predictions up to two. I should offer her a pay raise..." Susan: > I would guess that Harry is one of/or the last remaining DESCENDANT > (not ancestor) of Godric Gryffindor..and that oooh, perhaps Salazar > Slytherin passed on some magical ability to Voldemort and GG passed > some on to Harry, and the conflict between Voldemort and Harry is a > reflection of the conflict between Salazar and Godric. As such, the > Sorting Hat (which, remember, is what GG left to sort the students > after his death, compare it to Riddle's diary)gave Harry the sword of > GG. Kelley: Hadn't thought about the 'SS and GG passed on some magical abilities to Vold and Harry' part,--very intriguing; sounds very likely, too, since Harry seems to be 'stronger' as a wizard in many ways than the other kids. But as for the rest, I definitely agree. I believe they will continue and most likely, conclude the conflict between their ancestors, SS and GG. Susan: > OR maybe AD is also a descendant of GG and in a ritual of the Order > of the Phoenix passes on some special ability (now ***I*** am > referring to Katherine Kurtz) to HP. > > So perhaps we will have the showdown at the OK corral between the > last descendant of SS and the last descendant of GG. Kelley: I am in total and complete agreement. These points also support Harry being 'special,' referring to why he's Vold's main target--the first part of the conversation at the top. > Or maybe I should go write some fan fiction. ---Susan Yay! Go for it, you can never have enough good fanfic. Especially if we may have a two (!) year wait... ---Kelley From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 09:17:00 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:17:00 -0000 Subject: Movie in Oxford and HP reading In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8srmuc+l43l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4263 Thanks Simon... I now have maps! > I have been through Christ Church meadow, and past the Bodleian, this morning. Broad Street has notices up suspending parking on the road - they say that it will be in use by a film crew (from yesterday until Tuesday). Sounds promising then. > There are movie set-up crews in and around the Bodleian and also in Christ Church meadow. It is fairly chaotic. Any tips on where to park then... I doubt if the Park&Ride will be working come 6pm! >I trust information in the Student newspaper with the same high regard that I have for information I get from The Sun (the UK people will understand this). LOL - For those not in the UK, try the saying 'take it with a pinch of salt' - or in the Sun's case... a few lbs of salt! Nick. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Oct 21 09:46:46 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:46:46 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) In-Reply-To: <8sr1hm+uk66@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8srom6+j8fb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4264 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: Kelley: > > didn't it say Hagrid was in Huff in one of the books? Harry > > says "I'll probably be in Huff," and doesn't Hagrid say "~I~ was > in > > Huff..." or something like that? I could swear I saw this > somewhere,> > maybe not that exchange, but that it's stated that Hagrid was in> > Huff. Am I nuts? All right, all right, we know the answer to that > > one, keep your comments to yourselves... ;o] Scott: > Well don't feel bad, I already know that I'm completly daffy and I > agree with you here! I KNOW (well of course I could be wrong) that > it said Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, or else STRONGLY implied (I'm > thinking the former as we both deduced this...) Kelley: Yippee! Thank you, Scott. I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I was beginning to wonder if maybe I was just starting to make up my own story... Scott: > The pasage to which you refered is this... > > ******* > > "And what are Slytherin and Hufflepuff?" > > "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are a bunch o' > duffers but-" > > I bet I'm in Hufflepuff," said Harry. > > "Better in Hufflepuff than in Slytherin," said Hagrid darkly... > > ***** > > Hagrid's "but-" could easily of been "I was in Hufflepuff." or "Your > Dad was in Hufflepuff" (though I feel JKR has indirectly disproved > the latter.) Kelley: Yes, that is the passage I was thinking of, but...(down at the bottom) > Another interesting thing is that the British Subject verb agreement > (Hufflepuff are) is used and not (Hufflepuff is) which is the > American way. ( and if this is wrong just remember I'm not the best > at grammar) > > > Errr, anyway can anybody clear up this rather shadowy assumption that > Hagrid was in Hufflepuff (besides the JKR chat)... I just can't stop > think ing that it was SOMEWHERE in CoS. I shall continue to peruse > but if anyone knows anything.... > > Scott ...Like you, I keep feeling that it was ~stated~ somewhere, clearly, that he was in Huff. You may be right, it could be in CoS--I'm just beginning to reread it, I'll try to skim and look for it. Please, anyone, if you know what we're trying to think of, please help! BTW, Scott, your post on questions for JKR was funny-- you really had me going at first; when I started reading those questions I was thinking 'O - M - G... you have ~got~ to be kidding me...'--then I laughed when I got to the rest of your post. Good one! Kelley From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 10:00:51 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:00:51 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow Message-ID: <8srpgj+7f07@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4265 Hi all I've been thinking about a possible location for Godric's Hollow - and have come up with a possibility: Culver Hole, in South Wales. If flying from this location to Surrey - on a straight line path - then you would fly over Bristol. I wonder... now some further investigation is needed - so far I have established that it is a popular location with Climbers. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 10:03:47 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:03:47 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow In-Reply-To: <8srpgj+7f07@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8srpm3+kea0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4266 Replying to my own post... ===== Port Eynon A favourite destination for many wishing to head further along the peninsula. The dune fringed bay stretches eastward fully a mile to Horton. Popular with windsurfers and boat enthusiasts it offers a range of eating places. Still plenty of evidence of seafaring past ranging from old oyster beds to the stories of a very profitable trade in smuggling during the 18th Century ! Just west of Port Eynon Point is the fantastic Culver Hole, a cave enclosed by a sixty foot wall of masonry complete with look out windows. Though certainly evocative of dark deeds in the past its very early origins are thought not to support the theories of a smugglers'retreat. ===== (this found at: http://www.gower-wales.co.uk/guide/south_info.htm ) Nick. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Oct 21 10:27:25 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:27:25 -0000 Subject: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question In-Reply-To: <003701c03b39$962d4de0$96997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8srr2d+s53i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4267 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > Kelley wrote: > >I don't know what I think of "HP and The Order of The Phoenix". > I'll decide when I hear what the 'other' title might > be. Nick: > I think it is a 'working' title. But it may be a good indicator that we are> going to find out more about the magical world outside of Hogwarts - maybe> Dumbledore holds a meeting at Hogwarts for all the members of The Order of> The Phoenix. Kelley: Yes, that's what I was wondering; a 'working' title, as 'Doomspell' was. And, of course, 'Doomspell' isn't what made the final cut. I very much like the idea of going into a 'new' magical world. Kelley: > didn't it say Hagrid was in Huff in one of the books? Nick: > Not as far as I can find, having done a quick search of books 1 to 3, all I > could find in reference to Hagrid and Hufflepuff was: > > PS/SS Chapter 5 > ============== > > Hagrid: "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are a lot > o'duffers, but --" > > Harry: "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff" said Harry gloomily. > > Hagrid: "Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin," said Hagrid darkly. "There's not > a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You- Know-Who > was one." Kelley: Thanks for the assistance, Nick. This was the passage that Scott found, too. Well, heck, I was sure it was in there somewhere. ~Where~ did I get that from??? (At least I can take comfort in the fact that Scott was thinking the same thing. I am not alone in my madness.) Nick: > "Harry swung round. The speaker was a plump woman who was talking to four > boys, all with flaming red hair. Each of them was pushing a trunk like > Harry's in front of him -- and they had an owl." > > Can't find anything about Mrs Weasley's hair. Okay. This is really bizarre. Am I just making these things up? ;o] I cannot figure out why I believed these points... Nick: > But did turn up something interesting: > "She was a very pretty woman. She had dark red hair and her eyes -- her eyes > are just like mine, Harry thought, edging a little closer to the glass." > Could Harry's mum have been a Weasley before being a Potter? Kelley: Yes, that idea has been bandied about. And, don't forget, Dumble's hair used to be red (auburn) too... Since we've learned Lily's name was once Evans, do we agree that that's all there is to it? She's a muggle-born witch, just like Hermione? > Arthurs hair was Red: "He was a thin man, going bald, but the little hair he > had was as red as any of his children's." > > > Nick. Good, I at least got one out of three... Maybe I should just hang it up now. Doesn't seem as though I'm improving at all. ;oD Thanks again, Nick. Kelley From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 21 12:10:58 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:10:58 -0000 Subject: JKR on CNN In-Reply-To: <8sqqdo+eg4l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ss14i+re4r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4268 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Hi all! > > JKR is going to be on CNN sometime between 9:00 and 10:00 pm EST did anyone watch this last night? What did she say? From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 21 12:18:32 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:18:32 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) In-Reply-To: <8srom6+j8fb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ss1io+koud@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4269 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > Well don't feel bad, I already know that I'm completly daffy and I > > agree with you here! I KNOW (well of course I could be wrong) that > > it said Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, or else STRONGLY implied (I'm > > thinking the former as we both deduced this...) > > Kelley: > Yippee! Thank you, Scott. I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I was > beginning to wonder if maybe I was just starting to make up my own > story... > I just (electronically) scanned through both CoS and PoU, I mean PoA, for the word "Hufflepuff" and it's never stated absolutely that Hagrid was in that house - although I also thought he was, based on that intemation in his conversation with Harry & the fact that he is patient, loyal & unafraid of toil - but his bravery must be the strongest feature =- good to know! From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 21 12:52:35 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:52:35 -0000 Subject: Scotland... In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001020205937.008eef5c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8ss3ij+7lnm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4270 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > At 21:37 10/20/2000 +0100, Jinx wrote: > > >>>[Scotland] used to be a separate kingdom, but no longer is - it's monarch > >>>is Queen Elizabeth, same as the rest of the country. > > But, Christian thinks otherwise, as he said. Perhaps he'll explain. > > >I can't see why the Scottish kids wouldn't go to Hogwarts - it's really > >weird for them not to, especially if Irish kids get let in. JKR lives in > >Edinburgh and appears to have set Hogwarts in Scotland, there's no way she'd > >keep Scotch witches and wizards out of Hogwarts, surely? > > Aaaaargh, Jinx! The ultimate sin is to call Scottish people 'Scotch'. > Scotch is whisky. McGonagall would take 50 points from your House for that. > What is your House, BTW? > > I agree - this information about Scotland being excluded cannot be correct. > > Neil *g* I always pictured Hogwarts to be located somewhere near the England-Scotland border, since it's a long train ride to the north (or maybe it's just in the North of England?). I've always pictured Hagrid with a Scottish accent, likewise Moody. It would be odd if Scottish kids were excluded from Hogwarts. BTW, isn't there a Hufflepuff named Ernie MacMillian? Sure, he could be Scots-Irish but..... :-) Milz (watches too much Brit. TV imports now, and read far too much Dickens, Collins, Austen, Nesbit, Bronte, Bronte and Bronte as a kid.) From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 21 13:28:33 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:28:33 -0000 Subject: Scottish Arms In-Reply-To: <20001021004659.29180.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8ss5m1+hofl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4271 One of my fav web sites is The Baronage, a site devoted to Heraldry past and present. http://www.baronage.co.uk :-) Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > One for Scotland, under the Lord Lyon King of Arms, > and one for England, Wales and Northern Ireland, under > the Earl Marshall. > > --- Pam Scruton skrev: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski > > >I > > > forget his title, but the head of the British > > College is a > > different person and > > > is not a legal personage. > > > > Are you sure there is a British College of Arms? I > > didn't think > > there was one. An English College, a Scottish > > College and a Welsh > > College (I believe) and probably and Irish one - but > > I'm not sure > > about a British one. > > > > A few years ago British Airways were under threat of > > having to > > repaint any plane that flew north of the border. > > They had obtained > > permission from the English heralds for the coat of > > arms on the tail > > fin but not from the Scottish ones. > > > > Pam > > A half-Welsh Englishwoman who has lived in Scotland > > for the past 25 > > years > > > > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > F? din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p? http://mail.yahoo.no From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 21 13:31:59 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:31:59 +0100 Subject: gay characters (reprise) and JKR's title Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001021133159.00908a24@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4272 Susan said, in response to Amanda: <<>> I know I said I'd shut up on this topic, but I have to jump back in. If gay characters are identified, I agree with Susan that physical intimacy is not necessarily implicit to that. Being gay isn't just about being physical with someone of the same sex. It's possible to be celibate and gay, for example; your sexual orientation doesn't alter. Leaving aside controversy (ahem, I wish I had now), it would be good to have some incidental references - happenstance rather than issue-led. I agree with Catlady, that this can be done with words, as well as actions. I also second Susan's point about the isolation of gay and lesbian teenagers (I have had some experience with this), but I don't know that we can *expect* JK Rowling to address this topic in the Harry Potter books. Having discussed this to death, though, I'm now thinking that perhaps it's not so unlikely that she will adress it in the forthcoming books. Neil PS - Susan - to respond to your ponderings on JKR's title, her former husband was Portuguese, so I imagine Rowling is her maiden name. I'd assume "Ms Rowling" would be the best bet [not "Rowlings", note]. I'm sure she wouldn't mind being called "Jo" either. I hope you get to meet her some day. I'd like to be a bug on the wall during *that* conversation! Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 21 13:36:48 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:36:48 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore an animagus? Message-ID: <8ss65g+ssj7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4273 This is just a thought, but considering Dumblebore was the Transfiguration Teacher, could he also be an un-registered animagus? There's a part in SS that's always puzzled me...Harry tells Dumbledore that they sent an owl to him in London. Dumbledore replies that he didn't get the owl and that they must have passed each other in the air (or something like that). I thought at first Dumbledore was traveling via broomstick, but wouldn't he have noticed the owl? Also, 'dumbledore' is an archaic word meaning "bumblebee". :-) Milz From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 14:44:25 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:44:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A couple of things: References: <20001021005732.20750.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <004001c03b6d$68a82d20$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4274 Voicelady, I am sorry. I dashed out of here early (like right after the Today (chat)) and didn't get a chance to say Happy Birthday until now! (111 letters in my HP box, it was an extremely verbal day!) Hope it was wonderful! :D Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady at mymailstation.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: A couple of things: Hey, thanks everybody! You helped make my day very enjoyable! Now excuse me for getting all maudlin on you, but it really meant a lot, and I'd like to consider you all my friends. And I heartily propose that we definitely adopt the "birthday" calendar for our little group. Everyone should have such a nice experience as I had today. On to Pullman's series: these are supposed to be kids' books?!? I think they would be rather difficult for kids. Thanks again, guys. voicelady _____________________________________________________________ This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark of CIDCO Incorporated. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 21 13:48:10 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:48:10 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore an animagus? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001021134810.008b6f1c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4275 Milz wrote: >This is just a thought, but considering Dumblebore was the >Transfiguration Teacher, could he also be an un-registered animagus? >There's a part in SS that's always puzzled me...Harry tells >Dumbledore that they sent an owl to him in London. Dumbledore replies that he >didn't get the owl and that they must have passed each other in the >air (or something like that). I thought at first Dumbledore was >traveling via broomstick, but wouldn't he have noticed the owl? Also, >'dumbledore' is an archaic word meaning "bumblebee". Good point. There's also the bit in PS, when Harry is visiting the Mirror of Erised and Dumbledore appears from nowhere. Harry had apparently walked past Dumbledore to get into the room, and Dumbledore makes a comment about being invisible making Harry "near-sighted". Later, he tells Harry "I don't need a cloak to become invisible...". A bumblebee sitting on the table would be virtually invisible. I'm not so sure that Dumbledore would be an unregistered Animagus, and that raises an inconsistency: why didn't Hermione see his name listed as one of the registered Animagi? It's a nice idea though. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 21 13:54:18 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 08:54:18 -0500 Subject: Godric's Hollow References: <8srpm3+kea0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F1A009.ACCD79B0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4276 Hi -- nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > Port Eynon I looked this up -- intriguing possibility. I still like Godre'r-graig a bit better. It seems a bit more direct to Surrey to me & has the added bonus of being "close" to Godric. It also might be a bit more isolated -- not so many tourists. :--) Glad you're back Nick. Good luck finding the filming locales. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From managirl19 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 13:53:36 2000 From: managirl19 at aol.com (managirl19 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:53:36 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore an animagus? Message-ID: <47.260ee14.2722f9e0@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4277 In a message dated 10/21/2000 9:47:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, neilward at dircon.co.uk writes: > why didn't Hermione see his name listed as one of > the registered Animagi? Well, did Hermione ever really check the list? That is true, though, his name would have stood out completely. I find that the more I think about Dumbledore, the more I sort of worry that he isn't all that he appears to be. It bothers me that I can't know for sure. -------------------------------------------------------------- Allegria Winselvern at FanFiction.net e-mail: managirl19 at aol.com Contacts AOL Instant Messenger : managirl19 MSN Messenger: psycho_mana at hotmail.com ICQ # 84665215 Screen Name: Mana Yahoo Messenger: psycho_mana Napster: PlatinumGarbage Websites Mana's Basement* Wizarding Bulgaria and Durmstrang Institute* Virtual Harry Potter Beauxbatons The Unofficial Harry Potter Fan Club Encyclopedia Potterica *Websites that are mine From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 21 13:54:22 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:54:22 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore an animagus? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001021134810.008b6f1c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8ss76e+kepd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4278 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > Milz wrote: > > >This is just a thought, but considering Dumblebore was the > >Transfiguration Teacher, could he also be an un-registered animagus? > >There's a part in SS that's always puzzled me...Harry tells > >Dumbledore that they sent an owl to him in London. Dumbledore replies that he > >didn't get the owl and that they must have passed each other in the > >air (or something like that). I thought at first Dumbledore was > >traveling via broomstick, but wouldn't he have noticed the owl? Also, > >'dumbledore' is an archaic word meaning "bumblebee". > > Good point. There's also the bit in PS, when Harry is visiting the Mirror > of Erised and Dumbledore appears from nowhere. Harry had apparently walked > past Dumbledore to get into the room, and Dumbledore makes a comment about > being invisible making Harry "near-sighted". Later, he tells Harry "I don't > need a cloak to become invisible...". A bumblebee sitting on the table > would be virtually invisible. > > I'm not so sure that Dumbledore would be an unregistered Animagus, and that > raises an inconsistency: why didn't Hermione see his name listed as one of > the registered Animagi? It's a nice idea though. > > Neil > If he is an unregistered animagus, perhaps that's the reason why he appeared to take the Sirius/Padfoot thing rather calmly. Lupin had misgivings about telling Dumbledore that Sirius was an unregistered animagus because he felt guilty. Yet, Dumbledore didn't fire him and appeared as thought he wanted Lupin to stay. :-) Milz From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 14:55:09 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:55:09 -0500 Subject: OotP Message-ID: <005f01c03b6e$ee24bbc0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4279 s p o i l e r (Do we need those? Penny, Melanie?) I adore the Adept series, and the second I heard the title on the TV, that is what came to mind--the Templar Knights (no, can't recall what the exact order was, but I adored those books. And if there is a strong WW2 strain in HP, I would think it very funny after reading KK's books!). I was under the thinking (that doesn't look right--but after going to bed at 2am, and feeling like the dead mouse...) that the Order is either secret, or semi-secret, and like the Masons, not much is revealed outside the inner circle. (I would adore learning more about Masons, btw...hint hint? I promise not to reveal secrets--I just have always thought there was some magick involved with their secrets!) Dee OR maybe AD is also a descendant of GG and in a ritual of the Order of the Phoenix passes on some special ability (now ***I*** am referring to Katherine Kurtz) to HP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 13:58:42 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:58:42 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow In-Reply-To: <39F1A009.ACCD79B0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8ss7ei+108s8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4280 > I looked this up -- intriguing possibility. I still like Godre'r- graig a bit better. Where? Can't locate that in the archive of this list - was it back when we used Yahoo? >It seems a bit more direct to Surrey to me & has the > added bonus of being "close" to Godric. >It also might be a bit more isolated -- not so many tourists. Why would it need to be isolated? If Lilly and James were in hiding, then they could hide amonst Muggles. Out of interest, have we established yet why they were in Goderic's Hollow in the first place? > Glad you're back Nick. Good luck finding the filming locales. Thanks Penny... nice to be back. Nick. From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Oct 21 13:57:24 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:57:24 +0100 Subject: animagus Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4281 Neil wrote: "I'm not so sure that Dumbledore would be an unregistered Animagus, and that raises an inconsistency: why didn't Hermione see his name listed as one of the registered Animagi? It's a nice idea though." Hermione says (PoU Ch 18): "Because... because people would know if Peter Pettigrew had been an Animagus. We did Animagi in class with Professor McGonagall. And I looked them up when I did my homework -- the Ministry of Magic keeps tabs on witches and wizards who can become animals; there's a register showing what animal they become, and their markings and things... and I went and looked Professor McGonagall up on the register, and there have been only seven Animagi this century, and Pettigrew's name wasn't on the list." As Dumbledore is 150 years old he would not appear on this list, which covers the last 100 years. This is assuming Dumbledore became an animagus before he turned 50. Also Hermione never says that Dumbledore is not an animagus, just that the Marauder's can't be (as they are not registered) and that McGonagall is. Simon (I am getting snowed under in messages - expect some replies but in a few days time when things have calmed down) From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 21 14:10:56 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:10:56 -0500 Subject: Godric's Hollow References: <8ss7ei+108s8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F1A3F0.9FE86E53@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4282 nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > > I looked this up -- intriguing possibility. I still like Godre'r- > graig a bit better. > > Where? Can't locate that in the archive of this list - was it back > when we used Yahoo? Yeah .... it's back in the Yahoo archives. > >It seems a bit more direct to Surrey to me & has the > > added bonus of being "close" to Godric. > > >It also might be a bit more isolated -- not so many tourists. > > Why would it need to be isolated? If Lilly and James were in hiding, > then they could hide amonst Muggles. I guess it wouldn't *have* to be isolated -- I just had the impression it would be. > Out of interest, have we established yet why they were in Goderic's > Hollow in the first place? Not really. I think some of us suspect it's a tie to Gryffindor ancestry. Alix suggested that Evans is a Welsh surname so perhaps the Gryffindor link flows through Lily. Although if that were true, then Voldy would have surely wanted to kill Lily too. Unless he was after a male descendant through the Gryffindor line . . . hmm . . . .this would mean James was also incidental & add support to the theory that Voldy's only target that night was Harry. But, that really can't be true if we believe that Lily is muggle-born, can it? Now, I'm babbling so I'll shut up. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Oct 21 14:19:25 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:19:25 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] animagi/life cycle Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001021141925.008ef07c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4283 I wrote: >"I'm not so sure that Dumbledore would be an unregistered >Animagus, and that raises an inconsistency: why didn't Hermione see his name >listed as one of the registered Animagi? It's a nice idea though." Simon said: >As Dumbledore is 150 years old he would not appear on this list, which >covers the last 100 years. This is assuming Dumbledore became an animagus >before he turned 50. Also Hermione never says that Dumbledore is not an >animagus, just that the Marauder's can't be (as they are not registered) and >that McGonagall is. Good point! However, it's possible that the list Hermione read included all living Animagi, and she only mentioned the ones from this century because she was checking for Peter Pettigrew (who is a relative youngster). If Dumbledore had been on the list, wouldn't Hermione have said something like: "Guess what? Dumbledore is a bumblebee Animagus!!" Maybe she just didn't read the full list and stopped when she got to 1900, assuming that anyone older than that would be dead. This raises another point, about life expectancy: Do witches/wizards just live longer or is their life cycle different? As a Muggle-born witch will Hermione develop differently to the pure-blood or half blood witches in her year? Are the children grouped by physical age or chronological age? If it's the latter, won't most of Hermione's classmates be due for puberty at around 20, instead of 13/14? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 15:25:47 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:25:47 -0500 Subject: Wormtail, and the Zoo Message-ID: <006801c03b73$31d38f00$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4284 Ron is the one who pops up, and explains who Peter was (If I recall right), which means that it was a discussed thing in his house hold. They speak of him receiving the Order of Merlin, posthumously, and I am under the impression that that isn't something that is too frequently given out. Hence the knowledge that everyone is familiar with. ------------------------ THE ZOO My son and his best friend (and family) went to the zoo (Of course, I was there too!), and went trick-r-treating. It was called Boo at the Zoo, curtsey of Akron Zoo (Ohio). Besides the normal animals (Lions, and tigers and bears, oh my (and penguins, otters, and wallaby!), there was one animal that got me into a conversation. I have definitely been indoctrinated! On the top of the hill, across from the Turkey Vulture, and right beside the American Eagle (white head--is that the right name?) was another cage. A family was right behind me, and the kids went with their "Aunt" Kat to run through a hay-bale tunnel. I looked in the cage, and grinned widely, and announced, to no one in particular, "HEDWIG!" The lady pushing the stroller behind me, looked in, and said, "Yes, you're right!" Turns out she's read book one. I told her about the group, so maybe we'll get her in here! The owl? Well, it looked like it could be a stunt double for the movie--it's beautiful! It did look rather bored, though. :) Dee 2. Her (Anne, by the way): even if Fred and George did, for some reason, see "Peter Pettigrew" someplace on the map, they would not know who he was. We've already discussed the general non-informed status of the children about the Voldemort years. Wizard parents were having to explain to their kids who Sirius Black was; why would anyone have known the name of his supposed victim? (before Harry and company learn about it in book 3). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 21 14:31:55 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:31:55 -0500 Subject: UK Deluxe Collectors Edition Message-ID: <39F1A8DA.CD9653A0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4285 Hi -- I reserved one through ebay earlier this summer & it finally arrived yesterday. It's beautiful!! The cover is purple as I predicted (my husband thought it would be yellow). PS is red, CoS is blue & PoA is green. I think I'll re-read this version of GoF. Penny From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 14:35:14 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:35:14 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore an animagus? In-Reply-To: <8ss76e+kepd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ss9j2+3v1m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4286 Another thing which supports the case for Dumbledore to be an animagus. PS/SS - Chapter 1. "A man appeared on the corner the cat had been watching, appeared so suddenly and silently you'd have thought he'd just popped out of the ground." Hmm he could have apperated, but a little later on it says, when talking about celebrations: "All day? When you could have been celebrating? I must have passed a dozen feasts and parties on my way here." He PASSED a dozen feasts and parties. If he had apperated, he could not have PASSED. Thus I conclude, that he flew or walked past these feasts. But if he walked, how did he know it was a feast, and not just someone playing loud music if he flew, then he could have seen through the windows. He did not arrive on Privet Drive with a broomstick. Getting back to the book - "For some reason, the sight of the cat seemed to amuse him. He chuckled and muttered, ` I should have known.' " OK so Dumbledore presumably knows the form that McGonagall takes, so could guess that the cat was her. However, the cat was at the other end of the street - so he would not have got a close up look. What was it that Sirius said about one animagus being able to recognise another. I seem to recall something about that, in connection with Crookshanks. I wonder how far away they can tell if the other animal is an animagus? "Harry must have walked straight past him, so desperate to get to the mirror he hadn't noticed him." Fat chance if Dumbledore was there in person, Harry would have recognised him - would he not? If Dumbledore was hidden (for example as a bumblebee) then Harry would not have noticed him. Something else to consider Jo has said in a number of interviews that Dumbledore is the old english word for Bumblebee. Considering the lack of information that flows from her mouth - why, WHY, does she mention this. Is it because she wants us to know that there is a connection between Dumbledore and a Bumblebee? Oh and one last thing, to ponder on. How did McGonagall know where to look, to see Dumbledore appear when she was sat in Privet Drive? Nick. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 15:38:32 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:38:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] B&N Chat (And the other chats, also an apology) References: <39F09922.934391A@swbell.net> <39F124E8.D21B1B67@ibm.net> Message-ID: <008c01c03b74$f85d8ee0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4287 Peg, thanks for reminding me of this! I will admit that upon rising this morning, and reading the post someone had about 78 emails back in response to my post made me feel oh, so bad! I get very short-tempered lately, not certain if that's the three year old on me, or what, but my patience doesn't stretch as far. Every now and again I need a reminder that these books aren't ours alone (adults); that they do belong to the children as well, who as you said have just read them for the first time. They deserve as much respect as the senator who has read HP and wants to ask JKR questions, and comments in the rows during chats. And you're right (who-ever you are) when you said our chats descend to the same madness. I felt sooooo guilty when I saw that! Please, forgive me everyone? I was just excited and wanted to get to the meat, and was taking out the lettuce without stopping to feel what the thrown away lettuce felt like! Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] B&N Chat Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Overall, I was very disappointed by all the JKR events this week. > Perhaps I put too much time & energy into it, but it was extremely > disappointing to me that the same questions & themes were discussed over > & over & over & over again. I very much believe it was all set-up . . . > just publicity stunts, mainly geared to young kids. I get the impression that JKR really is perplexed by the public's interest in her, and that she's not a smarmy ham (like Lockhart) so she doesn't thrive on on author appearances, but she has a particularly soft spot for the kids, and she's thinking of them particularly whe she does publicity. So she's perhaps a bit more patient with repetitive questions than we would be. And I really do respect that. Greedy adults that we are, we want our questions answered right now, with no wasted time, thank you very much. But what she's interested in responding to the most is the starry-eyed kids who are just discovering books for the first time. For them, the questions they ask are new, although she's heard them a million times. I'm glad, at least, that she seems to be patient with them, even if we find it difficult. Her books have given so much joy to so many kids (as well as us) that I would be sorry indeed if she started acting like a prima donna at author appearances. Peg eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 14:41:04 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:41:04 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow In-Reply-To: <39F1A3F0.9FE86E53@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8ss9u0+12d7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4288 > Not really. I think some of us suspect it's a tie to Gryffindor > ancestry. Alix suggested that Evans is a Welsh surname so perhaps the Gryffindor link flows through Lily. Although if that were true, then Voldy would have surely wanted to kill Lily too. Unless he was after a male descendant through the Gryffindor line . . . I have just recieved an email from a contact who lives in Swansea. He has emailed to say he has photos and history information about Culver Hole, and he should be sending them to me in the next 12-24 hours... I will post anything of interest. >hmm . . . .this would mean James was also incidental & add support to the theory that Voldy's only target that night was Harry. But, that really can't be true if we believe that Lily is muggle-born, can it? Do we believe that Lilly was muggle-born? Petunia may well be a muggle, but what do we know about their parents? Nick. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 21 15:25:03 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:25:03 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore an animagus? References: <1.5.4.32.20001021134810.008b6f1c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F1B54F.9FC40232@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4289 Neil Ward wrote: > > I'm not so sure that Dumbledore would be an unregistered Animagus, and that > raises an inconsistency: why didn't Hermione see his name listed as one of > the registered Animagi? It's a nice idea though. Hermione lonly looked up animagi from THIS century, didn't she? Since Dumbledore is 150-ish, couldn't he be on the list from the LAST century? From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 15:39:33 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:39:33 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow In-Reply-To: <8ss9u0+12d7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ssdbl+acg6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4290 A picture is now available of Culver Hole. I have also recieved some descriptive text, but it is in graphic format, so will type that up at some point. Picture is located in the Egroups file area, in the folder Godric's Hollow. If anyone else has pictures of possible locations, please add them to the folder. Nick. From SHENmagic at aol.com Sat Oct 21 16:05:13 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:05:13 EDT Subject: Lily's last name Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4291 In a message dated 10/21/00 6:32:07 AM, From: "Kelley " writes: >Kelley: Since we've learned Lily's name > >was once Evans..... We did??? Could you provide a reference, please? Aylihael, who's been working too hard to do more than lurk for a few weeks.... From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 21 16:06:26 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:06:26 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore an animagus? In-Reply-To: <39F1B54F.9FC40232@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8sseu2+8dno@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4292 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > > Neil Ward wrote: > > > > > I'm not so sure that Dumbledore would be an unregistered Animagus, and that > > raises an inconsistency: why didn't Hermione see his name listed as one of > > the registered Animagi? It's a nice idea though. > > Hermione lonly looked up animagi from THIS century, didn't she? Since Dumbledore > is 150-ish, couldn't he be on the list from the LAST century? We already know the registered list is wrong. Peter, James, Sirius and Rita Skeeter were/are all unregistered animagi. I have a sneaky feeling that there are more animagi out there, but they just haven't bothered to register or they don't want to register. Also, Dumbledore is a very powerful wizard. He defeated one Dark Wizard in the 1940s and has a healthy number of enemies. Wouldn't it make sense for him not to register? Afterall if everyone knew Dumbledore transforms into a bumblebee, Dark Wizards could just conjure up insect spray and kill any bumblebee they happen upon. :-) Milz PS. Sorry about all the typos in my previous posts... From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Oct 21 16:08:06 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:08:06 -0000 Subject: Lily's last name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8ssf16+5ps3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4293 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SHENmagic at a... wrote: > > In a message dated 10/21/00 6:32:07 AM, From: "Kelley " > writes: > > >Kelley: > Since we've learned Lily's name > > > >was once Evans..... > > We did??? Could you provide a reference, please? > Aylihael, who's been working too hard to do more than lurk for a few weeks.... J. K. Rowling revealed that in an interview this week. :-) From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 21 16:16:33 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:16:33 -0000 Subject: What that book title might also refer to In-Reply-To: <39F12063.2A07C86C@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8ssfh1+c0m7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4294 Steve Vander Ark wrote: >Re: The "Order" of the Phoenix >Of course, it means order as in a religious order or the Order of >Merlin 1/c, that sort of thing. Or maybe, just maybe, it refers to >the order of spells coming out of >a phoenix-feather-equiped wand >caught in Priori Incantatem... Or maybe "order" as in command, maybe the bird is getting bossy. Or maybe "order" as in organized, maybe the bird is a neat freak. From klaatu at primenet.com Sat Oct 21 16:14:51 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:14:51 -0700 Subject: Apparate with a pal? No way! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4295 I just thought of a perfectly simple example of the rule that you can't take someone with you when you Apparate (by holding them). If you could, James and Lily would have just grabbed Harry and disappeared into thin air when Voldemort appeared. I'm shocked that they had no contingency escape plan, but if they had, then there wouldn't be the Harry Potter stories, would there? :D From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sat Oct 21 16:22:19 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:22:19 -0000 Subject: Lily's last name In-Reply-To: <8ssf16+5ps3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ssfrr+p7k3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4296 >Kelley: >Since we've learned Lily's name was once Evans..... I could be wrong but isn't Evans Rowling's maiden name? From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 21 16:30:17 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:30:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lily's last name References: <8ssfrr+p7k3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F1C499.9BBD1C32@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4297 Hi -- eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > >Kelley: > >Since we've learned Lily's name was once Evans..... > > I could be wrong but isn't Evans Rowling's maiden name? No -- Rowling's maiden name is Rowling. She is the daughter of Peter & Anne Rowling. I don't know whether she ever took the name Arantes. They were married for only 13 months, so who knows. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 16:45:29 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:45:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] animagi/life cycle References: <1.5.4.32.20001021141925.008ef07c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F1C829.666C829A@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4298 Neil Ward wrote: > I wrote: > > >"I'm not so sure that Dumbledore would be an unregistered > >Animagus, and that raises an inconsistency: why didn't Hermione see his name > >listed as one of the registered Animagi? It's a nice idea though." > You know, it's starting to strike me that unregistered Animagi are awfully common. Harry, Ron and Hermione alone know of four of them. (James, Sirius, Peter and Rita). I'm beginning to wonder if there might not be a lot of people out there who think, "It's none of the Ministry's damn business whether or not I'm an Animagus; I'm jolly well not going to register." Perhaps it strikes me that way because I've been reading about gun control politics in conjunction with the American Presidential race. A lot of Americans seem to me to froth at the mouth at the very idea of being asked to register their ownership of a gun with the government. I have a hunch that if you told an American wizard "you have to register with the Ministry if you're an Animagus," those same hackles would rise. Are British wizards the same, or are they a lot more docile about registering with the government than we prickly Yanks are? And no, no, no, I'm not trying to start an argument about gun control (please, PLEASE, don't, people). I'm just suggesting that perhaps people who know they are Animagi might resist registering their presence with the Ministry a lot more that the Ministry would like to believe. And so there might be a lot more Animagi running around out there than we know. Peg From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 21 17:00:43 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:00:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to References: <8ssfh1+c0m7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00bc01c03b80$73e34220$efc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4299 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:16 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > >Re: The "Order" of the Phoenix > >Of course, it means order as in a religious order or the Order of > >Merlin 1/c, that sort of thing. Or maybe, just maybe, it refers to > >the order of spells coming out of >a phoenix-feather-equiped wand > >caught in Priori Incantatem... > > Or maybe "order" as in command, maybe the bird is getting bossy. > Or maybe "order" as in organized, maybe the bird is a neat freak. Or maybe "order" as in Fawkes dropping by Honeydukes and ordering a large Butterbeer to go. - CMC From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 16:57:13 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:57:13 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore an animagus? Message-ID: <3d.26bd760.272324e9@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4300 what if Dumbledore can turn into more than one animal? Maybe he can turn into anything anytime he wants. From klaatu at primenet.com Sat Oct 21 16:34:04 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:34:04 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OotP In-Reply-To: <005f01c03b6e$ee24bbc0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4301 I'm with you, Dee -- I loooove the Adept series by Katherine Kurtz. I'm also currently reading "The Eight" by Katherine Neville, which is almost like a spy thriller, but involves a secret society that holds the key to the mystery of the Montglane Service, a magical chess set owned by Charlemagne and then scattered around the world. The Knights Templar are sort of involved in that, too. In the Adept series, I don't recall that the members of the "soldiers of the Light", lead by Adam Sinclair, had any other name than "The Hunting Lodge" -- although the BAD guys were called "The Lodge of the Lynx." And yes, the Lynx members were all heavily involved in the same black magic that Hitler (Grindelwald?) supposedly used in WW II. -----Original Message----- From: Denise Rohleder [mailto:gypsycaine at yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 7:55 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] OotP s p o i l e r (Do we need those? Penny, Melanie?) I adore the Adept series, and the second I heard the title on the TV, that is what came to mind--the Templar Knights (no, can't recall what the exact order was, but I adored those books. And if there is a strong WW2 strain in HP, I would think it very funny after reading KK's books!). I was under the thinking (that doesn't look right--but after going to bed at 2am, and feeling like the dead mouse...) that the Order is either secret, or semi-secret, and like the Masons, not much is revealed outside the inner circle. (I would adore learning more about Masons, btw...hint hint? I promise not to reveal secrets--I just have always thought there was some magick involved with their secrets!) Dee OR maybe AD is also a descendant of GG and in a ritual of the Order of the Phoenix passes on some special ability (now ***I*** am referring to Katherine Kurtz) to HP. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Oct 21 17:15:48 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:15:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP 5 out within two years???? References: <8snvcj+ek2o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002201c03b82$8f693d40$efc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4302 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian " To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:16 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP 5 out within two years???? > Today's USA Today had an article in the Life section quoting JKR > as saying the next Harry Potter book will be out "within" two > years!!! She goes on to say that it is "not too far along ... It will > be ready when it's ready. It's clearly time to for JKR to quit doing these TV interviews, on-line chats, and other such Gilderoy Lockhart shtiks - rather let us have her barricaded in her room with bars over the window until the Book Five manuscript is complete (meals through a door slat three times a day of course, and a bottle of expensive Burgundy every Saturday night). - CMC From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Oct 21 17:17:37 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:17:37 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP Book Error In-Reply-To: <003801c03b39$96f6b860$96997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001021101457.02552c00@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4303 At 09:30 AM 10/21/00 +0100, Nick Mitchell wrote: >Yes, it sure is. It's in the UK First Edition and 2nd Edition. >US edition has the correct wording - Fudge, not Crouch. But the US edition has an error of its own: During the interrogation of Crouch Jr, it at one point refers to him as "Moody", even though this is of course after the Polyjuice Potion has worn off and his true identity revealed. -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Oct 21 17:19:49 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:19:49 -0700 Subject: Book 5 title?? In-Reply-To: <003801c03b39$96f6b860$96997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001021101752.02518420@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4304 Possible spoiler??? Is there anyone besides me who is now convinced that the title of Book 5 will definitely *NOT* be "HP and the Order of the Phoenix"? -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Oct 21 17:23:01 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:23:01 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question In-Reply-To: <003701c03b39$962d4de0$96997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001021102028.02542450@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4305 At 09:24 AM 10/21/00 +0100, Nick Mitchell wrote: >I'm one of those that preferred "The Doomspell Tournament" to GoF. Actually, _HP and the Triwizard Tournament_ would have been a better title, IMHO. The Stone, the Chamber of Secrets, and Sirius were all pivotal to the plots of their respective books, but the Goblet serves its purpose early on and then disappears. -- Dave From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Sat Oct 21 17:20:12 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:20:12 -0000 Subject: Book 5 title?? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001021101752.02518420@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8ssj8c+lhe0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4306 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > Possible spoiler??? > > > > > > > > Is there anyone besides me who is now convinced that > the title of Book 5 will definitely *NOT* be "HP and the > Order of the Phoenix"? Well, in the BN interview yesterday, when asked she said that was definitely going to be the title. Do you think she's just teasing us or that she's going to change her mind? I don't see any clear reason to doubt her, myself. This is not a leaked rumour, this is straight from the horse's mouth. -Blaise. From renojr at aol.com Sat Oct 21 17:32:45 2000 From: renojr at aol.com (renojr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:32:45 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] B&N Chat Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4307 Peg, You wrote "I'm glad, at least, that she seems to be patient with them, even if we find it difficult. Her books have given so much joy to so many kids (as well as us) that I would be sorry indeed if she started acting like a prima donna at author appearences." A great point, Peg!! One which with I agee wholeheartedly. (sorry but I just HAD to express that) Reno From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 17:42:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:42:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hagrid's wand References: <8so9mm+c80c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F1D570.B8769CF2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4308 Susan McGee wrote: > And why can't Hagrid get a new wand? Do wizards/witches who haven't > been to Hogwarts have wands? In Hagrid's case, I suspect the wand-makers all know his situation. He's a bit high-profile (in more ways than one), and in all probability the wand-making industry is not a huge one and they know each other, and they'd know that he'd been expelled from Hogwarts and wasn't a qualified wizard. ...? whatcha think ...? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 17:49:09 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:49:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More gay discussion References: <20001020124816.16610.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <39F1D714.D37AE6D6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4309 voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > This whole discussion got me wondering about something. We all know that Harry has Lily's eyes, but that he most decidedly looks like James. So I'm starting to wonder if maybe Snape was in love with James, rather than Lily - as has already been put forth. Here is Harry, who looks like his dad, as a constant reminder to Snape (who really is a good guy, if not a nice one) that Harry is the reason that James, the man he loved, is now dead. And the more I think about this theory, the more I like it - even though it most likely isn't correct at all. Well, whoever Snape loved, I really believe that unrequited or more likely, rejected love was part of the equation. There seems to be a powerful struggle in Snape, an equivocation about Harry. The complexity of his actions and motives indicates conflicts within. The very passion of his dislike indicates, to me, an echo of an equally strong or stronger passion connected with one or both parents. I opt for both--and here's Harry reminiscent of both, every time Snape looks at him. Regardless of whom he loved, I think Snape was involved with Harry's parents on more than one very powerful emotional level. --Amanda From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 17:54:04 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:54:04 -0000 Subject: Book 5 title?? In-Reply-To: <8ssj8c+lhe0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ssl7s+e8h7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4310 IIRC, then JKR said something to the order of "I have a thing about the title's so I'm not telling." Now maybe this has changed but I really doubt this will be the title.. I watched the JKR interview on CNN last night and it was erm...boring. It might not of even been live though the show was taped in 2000 so I don't know... basically the same questions were asked. One thing I did find interesting was that Jo said something like "I am writing and have always written the Harry Potter books for myself. Book five may be for adults, it may be for kids, it all depends on how it turns out." Well we know that she is writing them for herself but I would love to see book five be more targeted for adult readers (and watch the NY Times squirm under pressure!). Scott PS: Do we need to start using spoilers, Penny? Or to ask it another way, is there anyone who wants us to use spoilers? Because I'm guessing most of us don't want to mess w/ them until closer to or when book five is out. Blaise wrote- > > Is there anyone besides me who is now convinced that > > the title of Book 5 will definitely *NOT* be "HP and the > > Order of the Phoenix"? > > Well, in the BN interview yesterday, when asked she said that was > definitely going to be the title. Do you think she's just teasing us > or that she's going to change her mind? I don't see any clear reason > to doubt her, myself. This is not a leaked rumour, this is straight > from the horse's mouth. > > -Blaise. From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 21 17:57:13 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Chat Message-ID: <20001021175713.17683.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4311 Even though I've been on this list for almost a month, I'm going to ask a...shudder..newbie question: Did I remember correctly that when you chat you mostly chat on CheetaChat? And if so, what is the chatroom called? I ask this because I had deleted CheetaChat awhile ago and if you do meet on there (even though it is a Yahoo chat client) I would download it again because I like CC better than Yahoo chat. From, Anake PS: Phew, that wasn't so bad. ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 17:55:10 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:55:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> <39EE0E0B.A5FD38FB@alumni.upenn.edu> <000401c039fc$31cc7a80$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> <39EF6786.C8AC308B@texas.net> <00ee01c03ad4$6483a240$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39F1D87E.399CCAE3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4312 Jinx wrote: > In most cases, I wouldn't have thought Apparating does let you take other > people with you. But then, a child in utero is physically attached to it's > mother and shares a bloodstream with her. No, the child's blood and the mother's never mix. Or they're not supposed to; tiny bits leak over during the birth process sometimes (which are the source of the antibody problem with the Rh factor, among other things), but there's no regular interchange or mixing. The complex and disgusting-looking placenta is where teeny little blood vessels come very, very close to pass nutrients, oxygen, carbon diaoxide, and occasionally other stuff like medications and alcohol, but a baby in utero most definitely is distinct and has all its own systems. Sorry, just wanted to clarify. Biology class over. --Amanda From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 21 18:04:11 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:04:11 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] B&N Chat References: Message-ID: <39F1DA9B.E880BA80@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4313 > Peg wrote: > > I'm glad, at least, that she seems to be patient with them, even > if we find it difficult. Her books have given so much joy to so many kids > (as well as us) that I would be sorry indeed if she started acting like a > prima donna at author appearences. I guess my feelings about the interviews & the chats go in 2 ways - I don't have any problem with the questions from the little kids - even the ones which were sent to individual rows instead of to JKR - and I recognize that at least some of the questions in the tv interviews have to be pretty basic - so those who are just now crawling out from under the rock they have lived under for 2 years can learn who this JK Rowling person is, and what Harry potter means. And the little girl who asked the question about "frog marching" on the Today Show was terrific (she had no idea what it meant when Fred & George "frog marched" Percy on Xmas Morning) even though it gave NO enlightenment to any of us - and we really did get a heckofalotof good material this past week - I've had to redo my entire FAQ about The Potters (although I am miffed that NOBODY asked whether Draco would stay evil, or at least whether he'd ever fight on the side of the good guys). And I don't want to know about the plot of the next book, although I like all the gap-filling information, as something for us to discuss for the next TWO BLOODY YEARS (grr). What I hated about the AOL chat was the brevity of it - it was UNDER 30 minutes, because it took about 2 minutes for the copyright & intro information the beginning, and then ended right at 8:30 - and I expected the Scholastic chat to be more for kids, because they were marketing it as something teachers could do with their students - but I still think that it would be great to have a chat with a focus on grownups who love the books themselves (and not just as something to read to the kids before bedtime, but as something to postpone bedtime for 6 hours to read) and peg - some of us are really hoping that you eventually do give us a new novel - almost as much as we're looking forward to Book 5... From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 18:04:11 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:04:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wormtail, and the Zoo References: <006801c03b73$31d38f00$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39F1DA9B.F8A80CF1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4314 Denise Rohleder wrote: > Ron is the one who pops up, and explains who Peter was (If I recall right), which means that it was a discussed thing in his house hold. > > They speak of him receiving the Order of Merlin, posthumously, and I am under the impression that that isn't something that is too frequently given out. Hence the knowledge that everyone is familiar with. Okay, I was intrigued and flipped thru book 3 looking for the first mention of Pettigrew by name. It happens in chapter 10, The Marauder's Map, when Harry has sneaked out to Hogsmeade, met Ron and Hermione, and they're having butterbeers in the Three Broomsticks. After the teachers have come in, and Harry's under the table, and Hermione moves the tree over to hide their table, all three of them overhear the teachers', Fudge's, and Rosmerta's conversation. It is this conversation that first mentions Peter Pettigrew, and explains who he is and what he did. In the next chapter, when Ron and Hermione are trying to keep Harry from going out looking for Black, Ron is the one who says that Pettigrew' mom got the Order of Merlin, First Class, and Pettigrew's finger in a box, that that had been the biggest bit they could find. He said his Dad told him, but (a) Arthur works at the Ministry of Magic and has access to privileged information, and (b) it's not clear whether Ron would have been told this, or whether this would have been discussed, prior to Sirius' escape from Azkaban. I suspect the latter, that Ron had been sort of set to watch Harry by his dad, since Arthur and Molly were so plainly worried about Harry deciding to go off after Sirius, and Arthur hadn't gotten the promise from Harry not to. In any case, how often is Ron looking at the Marauder's Map in book 3, before Pettigrew is forced to reveal himself? Would he have had a chance to see "Peter Pettigrew" there? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 18:07:01 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:07:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumbledore an animagus? References: <3d.26bd760.272324e9@aol.com> Message-ID: <39F1DB45.2B46DCEE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4315 JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com wrote: > what if Dumbledore can turn into more than one animal? Maybe he can turn into > anything anytime he wants. I don't think that's how the spell works. From Rowlings' comments to the effect that she hopes she'd be an otter, but ick, what if she's a slug or something, I got the impression that you learn the spell, which is sort of a "turn me into an animal, one approximating my nature," and what you get is what you get. Reminiscent of that Bloom County sequence where eating dandelions was discouraged because it supposedly turned you into the physical manifestation of your inner essence, and Steve Dallas ignored the warnings, ate one, and turned into a can of Spam. "This, actually, comes as a surprise to no one."--Opus. I suppose a schizophrenic wizard could be more than one animal...? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 18:09:45 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:09:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 title?? References: <4.2.0.58.20001021101752.02518420@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <39F1DBE9.C10700B9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4316 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > Possible spoiler??? > > Is there anyone besides me who is now convinced that > the title of Book 5 will definitely *NOT* be "HP and the > Order of the Phoenix"? Didn't she say on Rosie that she had a couple of working titles, didn't want to reveal either one, but couldn't resist the little boy who asked and gave him the more likely? Sounds to me like her later certainty is damage control, since she hadn't want to say to avoid just the sort of speculation in which we're currently indulging, and so she's limiting the speculation to just one of her possible titles. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 18:15:18 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:15:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] B&N Chat References: <39F1DA9B.E880BA80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39F1DD36.13DCF6EE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4317 heidi wrote: > (although I am miffed that NOBODY asked > whether Draco would stay evil, or at least whether he'd ever fight on the side > of the good guys). I *thought* I remembered this. From the transcript, on the Barnes & Noble site: hermione_rose_2000: Hello, Ms. Rowling. I am a big fan of the Harry Potter books. My name is Katherine Emily Rose, and I am 11. Is it true that Harry and Draco will have to get together and fight evil? JR: Don't believe everything you read on the Net! I saw that rumor too, but it is just a rumor. --Amanda From joym999 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 18:24:04 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:24:04 -0000 Subject: Mysteries of McGonagall In-Reply-To: <39F122DA.57063849@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8ssn04+agja@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4318 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Neil Ward wrote: > > > > > I have always found it strange that she asked him how he knew it was her? > > > (After changing from cat to > > > >Professor). Has Dumbledore never seen her in her cat form? After all > > > those years? > > > > > > Yes, I agree. I posted something on that very point ages ago. Is Dumbledore > > > *that* lacking in observation? Perhaps he left that knowledge in his > > > Pensieve and forgot to put it back in his head. > > > > Even odder, considering he was the Transfiguration teacher prior to his > > headmastership. > > I've always had a sense that the first chapter of that first book felt sort of > "tentative" to me, and that it raised implications that JKR just didn't go back > and fix when she had finished the book. Something about McGonagall and > Dumbledore's characterization felt a little bit different from the way they felt > in the rest of the book; nothing I could quite put my finger on. It is certainly possible that the difference in writing style of the first chapter is an inconsistency that JKR should have fixed. But another explanation for the different feel of that chapter is that it is the only one (in PS/SS, anyway) that is told from the adult POV. Every other time we see Dumbledore, McGonagall and Hagrid they are interacting with Harry. I think we all had the experience, as kids, of discovering how different teachers are when they interact with other adults than when they interact with their students. Maybe that was what she was trying to capture. On the other hand, maybe she just hadnt flushed (fleshed?) the characters out too well at that point. -- Joywitch From Malabud at excite.com Sat Oct 21 18:32:03 2000 From: Malabud at excite.com (Malabud) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Molly Weasley's (Red?) Hair Message-ID: <13107252.972153124275.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4319 Nick and Kelley have been discussing back and forth the color of Molly Weasley's hair, and I thought I'd add my thoughts. The gene for red hair must come from both parents in order for the children to have red hair. Of course, it is not necessary for Mrs. Weasley to have red hair to pass on the gene. Considering that *all* the Weasley children have "flaming red hair", it is highly unlikely that she does not have red hair herself. I don't own a copy of PoA (blasphemy, I know), so I can't quote directly, but isn't there a passage in the opening chapters about how all the Weasleys (including the parents) have red hair? Harry's looking at the cover photo on the Daily Prophet of all the Weasley's in Egypt. The photo is in black and white, but Harry knows they all have red hair. Can someone help with this passage? Malabud _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From joym999 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 18:37:16 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:37:16 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) In-Reply-To: <8ss1io+koud@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ssnos+65rg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4320 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > > Well don't feel bad, I already know that I'm completly daffy and > I > > > agree with you here! I KNOW (well of course I could be wrong) > that > > > it said Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, or else STRONGLY implied (I'm > > > thinking the former as we both deduced this...) > > > > Kelley: > > Yippee! Thank you, Scott. I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I > was > > beginning to wonder if maybe I was just starting to make up my own > > story... > > > > I just (electronically) scanned through both CoS and PoU, I mean PoA, > for the word "Hufflepuff" and it's never stated absolutely that > Hagrid > was in that house - although I also thought he was, based on that > intemation in his conversation with Harry & the fact that he is > patient, loyal & unafraid of toil - but his bravery must be the > strongest feature =- good to know! IIRC, some of the speculation that Hagrid was in Hufflepuff was based on the fact that when he and Harry are on the train to London, Hagrid is knitting a large, canary yellow something-or-other. Canary yellow is Hufflepuffs color. Far-fetched, I know, and wrong, as it turns out, but we have been known to grasp at even flimsier straws. -- Joywitch From catlady at wicca.net Sat Oct 21 18:39:05 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:39:05 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore an animagus? In-Reply-To: <39F1DB45.2B46DCEE@texas.net> Message-ID: <8ssns9+9lte@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4321 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > JUSDUCKY1 at a... wrote: > > > what if Dumbledore can turn into more than one animal? Maybe he > > can turn into anything anytime he wants. > > I don't think that's how the spell works. From Rowlings' comments > to the effect that she hopes she'd be an otter, but ick, what if > she's a slug or something, I got the impression that you learn the > spell, which is sort of a "turn me into an animal, one a > pproximating my nature," and what you get is what you get. I believe that you, Amanda, have correctly described how the Animagus spell works (or, at least, how the wizarding folk BELIEVE it works: I have a suspicion that an Animagus who went back to all the work and danger of 'learning' the spell again would get a second animal, but no one has ever tried it and found out). However, I also believe that Ducky was suggesting that Dumbledore, as a Great Wizard, can turn himself into animal form in some special way that combiness the flexibility of Transfiguration with the power of Animagery. From joym999 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 18:52:47 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:52:47 -0000 Subject: B&N Chat In-Reply-To: <39F1DA9B.E880BA80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8ssolv+h012@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4322 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > although I am miffed that NOBODY asked > whether Draco would stay evil, or at least whether he'd ever fight on the side > of the good guys) Actually, someone did ask this, in the B&N chat I think. JKR said she wouldnt tell. -- Joywitch From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Oct 21 18:59:11 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:59:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Titles, Prince Ombra (was: Re: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question) References: <4.2.0.58.20001021102028.02542450@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <39F1E77F.364406BF@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4323 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 09:24 AM 10/21/00 +0100, Nick Mitchell wrote: > >I'm one of those that preferred "The Doomspell Tournament" to GoF. > > Actually, _HP and the Triwizard Tournament_ would have been a > better title, IMHO. The Stone, the Chamber of Secrets, and Sirius > were all pivotal to the plots of their respective books, but the Goblet > serves its purpose early on and then disappears. I've heard other people make this point, and I'm not so sure. The Goblet was the object of destiny, if you will, which set everything in motion for the climactic events at the end of the book. You know, I think Book IV sets up a lot of thematic stuff swirling around "if onlys." When I think about it, it's there in previous books, too. If only I hadn't convinced James and Lily to let me switch with Peter, Sirius says. I'm sure that Snape has an "if only" in his past, too, we have yet to know about. If only I hadn't left the cloak at the foot of the Whomping Willow, Harry thinks, Snape wouldn't have interrupted everything and Sirius would have been cleared. If only Peter hadn't betrayed James and Lily in the first place. Now, Harry tells himself, if only I hadn't told Cedric to share the cup with me. If only I had been able to do something to stop Voldemort from coming back. If only, if only. If only Barty Crouch, Jr. hadn't put Harry's name in the Goblet of Fire. As far as the action of the books to come (happening in response to Voldemort's new arising) EVERYTHING flows from that. Including the "if onlys" which mean the true tests of character. Look at it this way: Book IV is the middle of the seven books. The Chapter entitled "The Goblet of Fire" is Chapter 16 in a 36 chapter book. The Goblet of Fire, therefore, is the magical object which appears ALMOST EXACTLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SERIES. The struggle between Voldemort and the wizards ended in the last generation with the deaths of James and Lily's and Voldemort's mysterious disincorporation by the young baby Harry. The Goblet here signals the start of the new generation's actions which will culminate with the series' ending (hopefully the final defeat of Voldemort). It is, as I've said, the object of destiny--like the sword which the young boy Arthur draws from the stone, or the Apple of Discord thrown among the three goddesses which leads to the Trojan War. "Goblet of Fire" reminds me of a crucible, a test of fire which will show Harry's true "mettle/metal." As such, it is broader in scope, I think than simply the Triwizard Tournament. Harry WAS chosen--in a much broader sense, for a much wider contest, more fundamental contest, the great war between Good and Evil. I think the "Goblet of Fire" is a fine name for the book. But that's just me, you know. I tend to see big themes everywhere. Peg P.S. Anyone on this list ever read _Prince Ombra_? Campbell's hero of a thousand faces, the mythical hero who is endlessly reborn to struggle against Prince Ombra, the force of darkness is reborn again in today's world. The catch is that this time he doesn't get to face his nemesis before he's fully grown up--he has to face him as a young boy. His mother died at birth, and he has a best friend who is a girl, and a mentor like Dumbledore, a psychiatrist. The author is Roderick MacLeish. From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 21 19:44:35 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:44:35 -0500 Subject: B&N Chat References: <39F1DA9B.E880BA80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39F1F223.44B505A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4324 Hi -- I agree with Peg that it's great for JKR to be so patient with her young fans! I have no complaint with that. Like Heidi though, I would like to see a chat for adult fans only. And, it would have been nice if the sponsors of the chats had indicated up-front that they were geared to young kids or only taking questions from younger readers. It's again a case where the adult fans are invisible in a sense (IMO anyway). I suppose, in fairness, that it might not have occurred to any of these sponsors that there would be scads of questions submitted by adults. Like Heidi, I'm also not interested in trying to elicit plot revelations for the later books. I would have just preferred to see 3-4 substantive questions answered in each interview. I don't think that would have detracted too much from the enjoyment for the younger fans & would have made all of us much happier. > Well we know that she is writing them for herself but I would love to > see book five be more targeted for adult readers (and watch the NY > Times squirm under pressure!). > Ah . . . a man after my own heart! Thanks Scott! I did note that Scholastic seems to have lost their battle to have the newly-released paperback version of CoS billed as a book for both adults and children. It's only on the NY Times childrens' paperback list. I really should just quit reading that list altogether . . . . it only pisses me off. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 19:46:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:46:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Molly Weasley's (Red?) Hair References: <13107252.972153124275.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <39F1F27D.9027ADC4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4325 Malabud wrote: > I don't own a copy of PoA (blasphemy, I know), so I can't quote directly, > but isn't there a passage in the opening chapters about how all the Weasleys > (including the parents) have red hair? Harry's looking at the cover photo on > the Daily Prophet of all the Weasley's in Egypt. The photo is in black and > white, but Harry knows they all have red hair. Can someone help with this > passage? Here ya go. Ch. 1, p. 9 (American): "Plump little Mrs. Weasley; tall, balding Mr. Weasley; six sons; and one daughter, all (thought the black-and-white picture didn't show it) with flaming-red hair." --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 21 20:00:25 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:00:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? References: <8sqokj+ltbp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F1F5D8.6A9F6B41@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4326 Kelley wrote: > It seems that the whole point of TR jr. learning of Lily's counter- > charm in CoS, is that he didn't know why he was defeated, and all > Harry got was a scar, (which yes, he learned from Ginny). With this > info, as he was sitting in the forest in Albania, he probably > thought, "D'oh! The ancient magic! How could I have forgotten > that?" And then began making his plans to counter this > protection...? Yeah, but I haven't heard anyone positing a theory as to how the defeated Voldemort lurking someplace obtained information from a re-animated memory committed to a separate object (the diary) long years ago and thinking and acting on its own via life-energy obtained in the present day. The diary entity clearly knew nothing of Voldemort's existence or actions past his own sixteenth year, and enough had happened up to that point that he thought the memory should be preserved. > Amanda: > I've put my finger on it; what bothers me about book 2. It's > that "interlude" feeling, sort of. The action must be seen so we'll know > certain things and understand certain relationships, but this is the only > book of the four that feels at all contrived as a vehicle for these > revelations more than an entity that needed to be written. > I absolutely see your point here, it's a very good one, but couldn't > the point of CoS be that Lucius is still being a DE, and trying to do > ~something~ to help his lord Vold? Yes, but isn't this exactly the type of revelation I was talking about, that we need to know and that book 2 is more a vehicle for than a story on its own? > Yes, I see that there's no reason to think there ~is~ communication, > but there is a possibility that present Vold may have learned about > the protection, etc., from memory-Tom Riddle. (Don't ask me > how, ;o].) Sorry. How? For Voldemort-of-the-forest to have learned what saved Harry in their confrontation from Tom-o-the-diary, there *must* have been some sort of communication, and I don't see how. Tom didn't learn what he wanted to know until that confrontation scene in the Chamber, and he "died" shortly thereafter when Harry put the fang through the diary. The animating energy he'd stolen from Ginny was returned, and the spell which caused him to "live" in the pages was destroyed. If there were some sort of psychic connection between Tom and Voldemort, I don't think Voldemort would have wasted any time having Tom or Ginny start contacting Death Eaters to have someone come and GET him already! > I > suspect that JKR will prove every one of my theories to be total > poppycock... As do we all..... --Amanda From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Oct 21 20:06:54 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:06:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: The acquisition of wealth Message-ID: <20001021200654.9219.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4327 My apologies if this is a theme discussed to exhaustion before. I have not yet had the opportunity to search through the messages from before I joined. One thing that has been puzzling me for some time is where the wealth of the Malfoys originates. I found an interesting creature in Norwegian folklore, however, that might be in the spirit of the Malfoys. The name of the creature in Norwegian is Dragedokke, which directly translated means "pulling doll". It is a tiny creature, in many ways similar to the Norwegian nisse, among other things in that they both draw wealth to the owner. It is female, however, and where the nisse draws natural wealth (grain, hay for the livestock, etc.), the dragedokke draws money and silver, in such quantities that no matter how much you spend, you never run out. They prefer living in chests, drawer and coffers. Once one has moved it, it is impossible to get it out, except by excorsism or sorcery. They were normally found living in the homes of witches and sorcerers. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From klaatu at primenet.com Sat Oct 21 21:18:30 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:18:30 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The acquisition of wealth In-Reply-To: <20001021200654.9219.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4328 What a delightful story! I've never heard of this particular creature before, but would like to know where I can get one... >:) -----Original Message----- From: Christian Stub [mailto:rhodhry at yahoo.no] Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 1:07 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] The acquisition of wealth My apologies if this is a theme discussed to exhaustion before. I have not yet had the opportunity to search through the messages from before I joined. One thing that has been puzzling me for some time is where the wealth of the Malfoys originates. I found an interesting creature in Norwegian folklore, however, that might be in the spirit of the Malfoys. The name of the creature in Norwegian is Dragedokke, which directly translated means "pulling doll". It is a tiny creature, in many ways similar to the Norwegian nisse, among other things in that they both draw wealth to the owner. It is female, however, and where the nisse draws natural wealth (grain, hay for the livestock, etc.), the dragedokke draws money and silver, in such quantities that no matter how much you spend, you never run out. They prefer living in chests, drawer and coffers. Once one has moved it, it is impossible to get it out, except by excorsism or sorcery. They were normally found living in the homes of witches and sorcerers. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From lrcjestes at msn.com Sat Oct 21 21:01:52 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:01:52 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's blood; Harry's uniqueness References: <8sr0l6+4rr1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000b01c03ba2$3d7e4500$6d43ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4329 > But why Harry? Just because he "lived" and was (until Rita Skeeter) > the toast of the Wizard/Witch world? > > I would guess that Harry is one of/or the last remaining DESCENDANT > (not ancestor) of Godric Gryffindor..and that oooh, perhaps Salazar > Slytherin passed on some magical ability to Voldemort and GG passed > some on to Harry, and the conflict between Voldemort and Harry is a > reflection of the conflict between Salazar and Godric. As such, the > Sorting Hat (which, remember, is what GG left to sort the students > after his death, compare it to Riddle's diary)gave Harry the sword of > GG. > > OR maybe AD is also a descendant of GG and in a ritual of the Order > of the Phoenix passes on some special ability (now ***I*** am > referring to Katherine Kurtz) to HP. > > So perhaps we will have the showdown at the OK corral between the > last descendant of SS and the last descendant of GG. > > Or maybe I should go write some fan fiction. > Not to discourage you, but if you are interested in these themes, Cassandra's fic "Draco Sinister" comes close to this theme of a reconfiguration of the Hogwart's four in their descendants. And Lori's PoU and also independently Cassandra's Draco Dormien's introduces themes of Harry (in PoU) and Harry and Draco (in Draco Dormiens) as a special types of wizards with particular powers, which would explain Voldemort's particular interest in Harry. Give them a try...very well written, and they explore these themes and conflicts in very interesting ways. carole link to these fics: Access the stories in the files section. you do not have to subscribe to the list to read the files. http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sat Oct 21 21:40:14 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:40:14 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scotland... References: <1.5.4.32.20001020205937.008eef5c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <000601c03ba7$81b9f980$111d78d5@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4330 ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Ward To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Scotland... > Aaaaargh, Jinx! The ultimate sin is to call Scottish people 'Scotch'. > Scotch is whisky. Oops. Sorry. It will never happen again. I am an ignorant Southern Sassenach who knows nothing. :) McGonagall would take 50 points from your House for that. > What is your House, BTW? I don't know but I've an idea it would have been Slytherin. Or possibly Ravenclaw. But I think Slytherin is the somewhat more likely. (Hence me being a Snape fan, and getting a bit annoyed when the words "Slytherin" and "Death Eater" are used synonymously.) Jinx From Ellimist15 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 21:41:45 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellie Rosenthal) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:41:45 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001019135531.025bc480@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8st2ip+qi1m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4331 > > It appears, though, that the main objective of the plot was to drive > Dumbledore > > from the school, and at this, it very nearly succeeded. > > This seems to go back to my theory that Dumbledore will get sacked in > Book 5, and L. Malfoy will become headmaster(!)... > > > > -- Dave Actually, I have a different theory. I was quite disturbed when I found out an interesting bit of history involving the exile and martyrdom of Saint Cornelius, formerly the Pope. It got really interesting when I learned that his replacement was none other than Saint Lucius. As you have undoubtedly realized, I base a lot of my ideas on the names of various characters. Keep in mind that J.K. names an amazing number of characters after saints (mainly minor characters, though. for a full list, consult my autobiogr-- I mean website!) I'm quite certain that something will happen to Cornelius Fudge, and he will be replaced by Lucius Malfoy. Thoughts? Ellie Rosenthal http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 22:14:28 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:14:28 -0000 Subject: HP Movie: Oxford Message-ID: <8st4g4+nk1b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4332 Hi all Nothing really interesting to report from Oxford... certainly there was plenty of activity, but it seems like the 'stars' won't be there till tomorrow (Sunday). They appear to be filming scene(s) which are set in the Hospital Wing. Further details are at http://www.broomsticks.org along with pictures or the location. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 21 22:25:46 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:25:46 -0000 Subject: HP Movie: Oxford In-Reply-To: <8st4g4+nk1b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8st55a+c0ak@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4333 http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/history/bodpic012.html A nice picture of what I think they may be filming is here - perhaps it is the door to Hogwarts... but why the need for hospital bed surounds? (those were being taken in by the props department this evening) Nick. From fuelchic at edsamail.com.ph Sat Oct 21 22:33:04 2000 From: fuelchic at edsamail.com.ph (ReEse) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 06:33:04 +0800 Subject: SPOILERS Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4334 hello ALL! I've been lurking in this list for quite awhile and I decided to un-lurk(is there such a word?)for awhile. I've decided to compile all the new info on HP(since, I have nothing better to do) that we learned so far. I think that this would also help those that get tons of email from various mailing lists and save them from a bad eye ache(like me :)). This came from the chats that had happened so far during the week... 1. Hermione's BDAY is on September 19 2. Prof. Flitwick is the Head of Ravenclaw 3. The next Defense against dark arts teacher would be female 4. There is "something" going on between Ron and Hermione, although the 'typical' Ron doesn't know it yet... 5. Hagrid was in Gryffindor 6. The 'title' for Book 5 would be "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" 7. Arabella Figg is the same person as Mrs. Figg 8. The Real Moody will show up in a future book 9. It was Voldemort who killed Hagrid's werewolf cubs 10.Lily's middle name is Evans 11.We would see Lupin come back in the future books. 12.Lily and James Potter were both in Gryffindor 13.James Potter was a Chaser 14.Susan Bones' parents were killed by Voldemort 15.JKR said that we should keep and eye on Snape... 16.In Book 5, we would know why some of the witches/wizards become ghosts while others do not. OK. So I'm not sure if there are more to this. Please add if there are more or if there are any corrections....I'm just typing this as I remember them. Reese:) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Oct 21 22:42:06 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:42:06 +0100 Subject: HP movie in Oxford Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4335 Nick wrote: "nice picture of what I think they may be filming is here - perhaps it is the door to Hogwarts... but why the need for hospital bed surounds? (those were being taken in by the props department this evening)" And: "Nothing really interesting to report from Oxford... certainly there was plenty of activity, but it seems like the 'stars' won't be there till tomorrow (Sunday)." And: "They appear to be filming scene(s) which are set in the Hospital Wing." I have wandered round this evening and it looks as if they are still setting up. I have never seen so many trucks for one movie. It is absolute chaos! Today signs were erected in Christ Church meadow, from Warner Brothers, apologising for any disruption caused during the filming (but did not name the film). On top of the hospital scenes, I was given the impression that they would be filming the main door to the school. This, if it is true, is the filming that will happen in and around Christ Church College. They have also been setting up in there, so I guess something must be happening. I plan to spend some of tomorrow wandering around seeing what is happening. My college overlooks the Bodleian, so I should be able to get a good view, as long as they move some of those lorries! Simon From joym999 at aol.com Sat Oct 21 22:48:53 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:48:53 -0000 Subject: SPOILERS, corrected Message-ID: <8st6gl+e41e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4336 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ReEse" wrote: > hello ALL! I've been lurking in this list for quite awhile and I decided to un-lurk(is there such a word?)for awhile. I've decided to compile all the new info on HP(since, I have nothing better to do) that we learned so far. I think that this would also help those that get tons of email from various mailing lists and save them from a bad eye ache(like me :)). This came from the chats that had happened so far during the week... Thanks for doing this, Reese, need a few corrections though: > 1. Hermione's BDAY is on September 19 > 2. Prof. Flitwick is the Head of Ravenclaw > 3. The next Defense against dark arts teacher would be female A future Defense against dark arts teacher will be female > 4. There is "something" going on between Ron and Hermione, although > the 'typical' Ron doesn't know it yet... There is "something" going on between Ron and Hermione, although the 'typical boy' Ron doesn't realize it yet... > 5. Hagrid was in Gryffindor > 6. The 'title' for Book 5 would be "Harry Potter and the Order of > the Phoenix" The 'title' for Book 5 will be "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" > 7. Arabella Figg is the same person as Mrs. Figg Arabella Figg is probably the same person as Mrs. Figg (there is some dispute as to whether JKR really confirmed this) > 8. The Real Moody will show up in a future book > 9. It was Voldemort who killed Hagrid's werewolf cubs (Huh? Absolutely not true. Hagrid never had any werewolf cubs, that was just a story that Voldemort made up to slander him.) > 10.Lily's middle name is Evans Lily's maiden name was Evans > 11.We would see Lupin come back in the future books. We will see Lupin come back in the future books. > 12.Lily and James Potter were both in Gryffindor Lily was in Gryffindor, James was probably in Gryffindor > 13.James Potter was a Chaser > 14.Susan Bones' parents were killed by Voldemort Susan Bones' grandparents were killed by Voldemort > 15.JKR said that we should keep and eye on Snape... JKR said that we should keep an eye on Snape... > 16.In Book 5, we would know why some of the witches/wizards > become ghosts while others do not. In Book 5, we will learn why some of the witches/wizards become ghosts while others do not. From lrcjestes at msn.com Sat Oct 21 22:32:19 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:32:19 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] SPOILERS References: <0066029302215a0CPIMSSMTPE11@msn.com> Message-ID: <001f01c03bae$c6e94ae0$f66a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4337 > 3. The next Defense against dark arts teacher would be female I think she said there would be a female DADA, but not necessarily the next one. > 9. It was Voldemort who killed Hagrid's werewolf cubs IIRC she said there were no werewolf cubs, Riddle was making it up to implicate Hagrid... > 14.Susan Bones' parents were killed by Voldemort Didn't she say Susan Bones grandparents were killed by V. These are just me recollection...no time to look it up at the moment carole From potterheads at aol.com Sat Oct 21 23:18:58 2000 From: potterheads at aol.com (potterheads at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:18:58 EDT Subject: Rowling on Larry King Live Message-ID: <80.1c711d5.27237e62@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4338 In a message dated 10/20/00 4:14:59 PM Central Daylight Time, never at never.to writes: << (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/), J.K. Rowling is supposed to appear on Larry King Live tonight. (9pm, 12am, and 3am Eastern) >> Anyone know where I can get a transcript of this interview? Or does Larry King do re-runns with in the same week of each other??? HELP!! Thanks, Pamela From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Oct 21 23:16:55 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:16:55 +0100 Subject: HP movie in Oxford Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4339 Well I take the time to read a student newspaper and then a friend points out that I missed the article in the other paper. The following is taken from the Oxford Student and actually makes some good points about the filming - if only I had read this earlier! HARRY POTTER IS set to become the first wizard to study at Oxford University this weekend as the filming of the new Warner Brothers movie gets under way at Christ Church College. The dining hall staircase and the cloisters are currently out of bounds to students and tourists as technicians prepare the set chosen to appear in the film version of JK Rowling's Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone - due for release in November 2001. The meadows at the rear of the college are also a hive of activity as marquees and lorries arrive with equipment for filming. An insider on set told us that one marquee would be used as a schoolhouse for the young actors over the next week, meaning that Harry himself - or at least Daniel Radcliffe, the young boy chosen to play Harry - could be studying at Christ Church. At the moment the work is just preliminary, but one technician revealed that filming of actors will be taking place this weekend, and would continue at Christ Church until Thursday of next week. The press has been full of speculation as to what actors will star in the film - Robbie Coltrane, playing Rubeus Hagrid, is a notable name on the list. Vanessa Davies, press officer for Leavesden, the production company, was remaining coy due to the sensitive and confidential nature of the film, but did reveal that the college was chosen because of its size and architecture. "It's a beautiful college and in keeping with everyone's perception of the novel," she said. Unfortunately for the students of Oxford, she announced that no university members will be used in the film. She was reticent too about encouraging visitors and fans of the world famous wizard to attempt to come and see Christ Church this weekend. "For the safety of students and tourists we would ask everyone to stay away," she warned. It is feared that the film schedule could be interrupted if fans swarm to the college to catch a glimpse of the actors. The Bodleian will also be used this weekend as part of the set for the film. The Bod's Mr Waterman told the Oxford Student that the Divinity School and Duke Humphrey's library will be sealed off and the gates locked for filming on Saturday. He said that the library was well used to appearing in movies and would be accommodating the film company and actors well. Despite this, he said that the publicity for Oxford from a worldwide success such as Harry Potter would be welcomed, even by the most disapproving of Bod authorities. The Oxford Student seconds that wholeheartedly! From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Oct 21 23:47:58 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:47:58 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? Message-ID: <20001021234758.11079.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4340 I have some further name-interpretations for your site (they may be interesting for others here too). They are taken from: Stemshaug, Ola (ed.): _Norsk Personnamn Leksikon_, Det Norske Samlaget, Oslo, 1982. One possible conclusion to draw from this is that George W. will end up as a sheep-farmer on Shetland, while Fred W. becomes the next Minister of Magic :-) Ron (Ronald) >From Norse 'Ragnvald', composed of 'Ragn-' (='advise, decision') and '-vald' (='he/she who has might; ruler'). Fred English form of German 'Fredrik'. Fredrik is formed by 'fred-' (='peace';'protection (from danger)') and '-rik' (='mighty' or 'ruler'). George >From greek 'Gergios', derived from 'Georgs'(='worker of the land, farmer'). Charlie >From Norse 'Karl' (='free man'). Bill >From 'William', from German 'Vilhelm'. Vilhelm is formed from 'Vil-' (='will, desire')and '-helm' (='helmet') Molly Affectionate form of 'Mary/Maria', again derived from ancient Hebrew 'Mirjam'. Meaning of Mirjam is unclear, but may be 'the plump'. While I am aware that it recently has been relatively firmly established that Harry was given as a name in its own right, it still has a meaning: Harry Variation of name 'Henry', now mostly seen as a pet-name, but is known to apear as a given name. Stems from French pronounciation of 'Henri'. Henry is derived from German 'Henrik'. Two interpretations exist: a) From old-German Haimerich, composed of 'haimi (='home') and '-rik' (='mighty' or 'ruler') b) From old-German Haganrih, from 'Hagan' (='enclosure') and '-rik'. --- Ellie Rosenthal skrev: > > > > > Actually, I have a different theory. I was quite > disturbed when I > found out an interesting bit of history involving > the exile and > martyrdom of Saint Cornelius, formerly the Pope. It > got really > interesting when I learned that his replacement was > none other than > Saint Lucius. > > As you have undoubtedly realized, I base a lot of my > ideas on the > names of various characters. Keep in mind that J.K. > names an amazing > number of characters after saints (mainly minor > characters, though. > for a full list, consult my autobiogr-- I mean > website!) I'm quite > certain that something will happen to Cornelius > Fudge, and he will be > replaced by Lucius Malfoy. > > Thoughts? > > Ellie Rosenthal > http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 00:56:18 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:56:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] SPOILERS (Corrections?) Message-ID: <001501c03bc2$e38df740$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4341 I think, if I am right, the Bones were the grandparents. Lily's maiden name was Evans, not her middle. Mrs. Figg wasn't officially confirmed. We also do not KNOW James was in Gryff, but we do know Lily was. I thought Voldie framed (or was it just hinted at and it isn't true) Hagrid with the Cubs... The latter I am not entirely certain on, but I know Voldie didn't kill them. Sorry? ----- Original Message ----- From: ReEse To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 5:33 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] SPOILERS hello ALL! I've been lurking in this list for quite awhile and I decided to un-lurk(is there such a word?)for awhile. I've decided to compile all the new info on HP(since, I have nothing better to do) that we learned so far. I think that this would also help those that get tons of email from various mailing lists and save them from a bad eye ache(like me :)). This came from the chats that had happened so far during the week... 1. Hermione's BDAY is on September 19 2. Prof. Flitwick is the Head of Ravenclaw 3. The next Defense against dark arts teacher would be female 4. There is "something" going on between Ron and Hermione, although the 'typical' Ron doesn't know it yet... 5. Hagrid was in Gryffindor 6. The 'title' for Book 5 would be "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" 7. Arabella Figg is the same person as Mrs. Figg 8. The Real Moody will show up in a future book 9. It was Voldemort who killed Hagrid's werewolf cubs 10.Lily's middle name is Evans 11.We would see Lupin come back in the future books. 12.Lily and James Potter were both in Gryffindor 13.James Potter was a Chaser 14.Susan Bones' parents were killed by Voldemort 15.JKR said that we should keep and eye on Snape... 16.In Book 5, we would know why some of the witches/wizards become ghosts while others do not. OK. So I'm not sure if there are more to this. Please add if there are more or if there are any corrections....I'm just typing this as I remember them. Reese:) eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sun Oct 22 00:07:40 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:07:40 -0000 Subject: Titles, Prince Ombra (was: Re: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question) In-Reply-To: <39F1E77F.364406BF@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8stb4c+dook@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4342 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > P.S. Anyone on this list ever read _Prince Ombra_? Campbell's hero of a > thousand faces, the mythical hero who is endlessly reborn to struggle > against Prince Ombra, the force of darkness is reborn again in today's > world. The catch is that this time he doesn't get to face his nemesis > before he's fully grown up--he has to face him as a young boy. His mother > died at birth, and he has a best friend who is a girl, and a mentor like > Dumbledore, a psychiatrist. The author is Roderick MacLeish. *stands on head* Okay, I know this is off-topic, but that's one of my favorite books! It sits next to Harry on my bookshelf. Both are classic hero tales, aren't they? And have their simlarities. The hero is a child, has no (or distant) parents; is scarred (Bentley has a twisted leg, doesn't he?), knows it's his destiny to face the ultimate evil and save the world, has a mentor and a female best friend..*grins* Such a great book. Great for HP withdrawal too. From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Oct 22 00:27:38 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:27:38 -0000 Subject: Test Audio Files Message-ID: <8stc9q+dh4q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4343 I've posted a couple of Real Audio files in the Files area, which might help put to rest the speculation on the pronounciation of "Hermione." However, I'd appreciate it if someone would test them for me to be sure they work. Just go to Files / Audio and click on either file. Send me a private message to tell me if you were able to hear anything. You'll need to have Real Audio installed on your computer. Thanks, Jim Flanagan From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 22 01:13:59 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:13:59 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise/Dictionary of Imaginary Places References: <8st2ip+qi1m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F23F57.7AA1576E@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4344 Second part of the subject first: My husband & I were shopping at Barnes & Noble this evening & I found this fascinating paperback book called the Dictionary of Imaginary Places - you can get it from amazon at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0156008726/o/qid=972176828/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_3/103-6663284-6184639 - This is the neatest book - it's written like a travel guidebook, as if you could actually go to Middle Earth, Hogwarts, Neverwhere (from neil gaiman's book), Digitopolis (Phantom Tollbooth) or Neverland and needed info about what was there or how to get there. It also has the Forebidden Forrest in it - a very clever present for any fantasy book fans on your list who either don't want a huge collection of HP Secret Boxes, or who already have every HP tchochkie. Now, merchandise. Yesterday, I went to Hallmark - they not only have a "quill holder", a bunch of tree ornaments which would also work well as ceiling fan pulls, some light up pens, stickers, frames, a calendar which is different from the kinds you can buy at the bookstores or online, they also have giftwrap, ribbons, tissue paper, tiny snowglobes (no, Cassandra, none of them have read-haired nymphs or blue snow) and metal keychains which say HP and have a lightening bolt. I also went to Warner Bros - some new t-shirts, the Mystery @ Hogwarts game (I guess they couldn't decide whether to make Draco cute- or mean-looking), and the Mug with Bertie Botts' Every Flavour Beans (which are made by the Jelly Belly people) are all there, as are some watches & the Fat Lady bookends. Today, at Barnes & Noble, they also had all teh Department 56 Seret Boxes, which I just don't find very interesting. It doesn't seem like they give away secrets about the books, but if I am wrong, and anyone who gets them learns otherwise (like if they say what Hermione's middle name is) please let us know. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 01:43:44 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 01:43:44 -0000 Subject: Merchandise/Dictionary of Imaginary Places In-Reply-To: <39F23F57.7AA1576E@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8stgog+gtnk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4345 Actually I had borrowed this book from one of my teachers. I thought it was a wonderful resource for the fantasy reader. Except it didn't have HP info in it. Then we got a catalogue from the Metropolitan Muesum of Art and it had a book section that included this book only expanded to include HP's Hogwarts. However I forgot to post this info. Also did you like the Every Flavour Beans? Someone, I think it was voicelady, said that she got a pepper one. (Yeech!) Do they have good flavours too? And does the Quill holder come w/ a quill? (One more question..) What is a Deptartment 56 Secret Box? I collect Dept. 56 but I'm not sure of the secret box. I thought that they were coming out w/ the small people and village accessories made out of porcelin. Does anyone else collect Dept. 56? If so do you have any more info? Scott > My husband & I were shopping at Barnes & Noble this evening & I found this > fascinating paperback book called the Dictionary of Imaginary Places - you > can get it from amazon at > - This is the neatest book - it's written like a travel guidebook, as if you > could actually go to Middle Earth, Hogwarts, Neverwhere (from neil gaiman's > book), Digitopolis (Phantom Tollbooth) or Neverland and needed info about > what was there or how to get there. It also has the Forebidden Forrest in it > - a very clever present for any fantasy book fans on your list who either > don't want a huge collection of HP Secret Boxes, or who already have every > HP tchochkie. > > Now, merchandise. > Yesterday, I went to Hallmark - they not only have a "quill holder", a bunch > of tree ornaments which would also work well as ceiling fan pulls, some > light up pens, stickers, frames, a calendar which is different from the > kinds you can buy at the bookstores or online, they also have giftwrap, > ribbons, tissue paper, tiny snowglobes (no, Cassandra, none of them have > read-haired nymphs or blue snow) and metal keychains which say HP and have a > lightening bolt. > I also went to Warner Bros - some new t-shirts, the Mystery @ Hogwarts game > (I guess they couldn't decide whether to make Draco cute- or mean- looking), > and the Mug with Bertie Botts' Every Flavour Beans (which are made by the > Jelly Belly people) are all there, as are some watches & the Fat Lady > bookends. > Today, at Barnes & Noble, they also had all teh Department 56 Seret Boxes, > which I just don't find very interesting. It doesn't seem like they give > away secrets about the books, but if I am wrong, and anyone who gets them > learns otherwise (like if they say what Hermione's middle name is) please > let us know. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 22 01:46:06 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:46:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise/Dictionary of Imaginary Places References: <8stgog+gtnk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F246DE.869FA633@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4346 Scott wrote: > Also did you like the Every Flavour Beans? Someone, I think it was > voicelady, said that she got a pepper one. (Yeech!) Do they have > good flavours too? > I actually didn't get them, but it looks like they have regular flavors, like cherry & lemon drop, as well as the unusual ones > > And does the Quill holder come w/ a quill? (One more question..) Yes, it does - but it's a "pen" quill, so you don't actually need ink. > > What is a Deptartment 56 Secret Box? I collect Dept. 56 but I'm not sure > of the secret box. I thought that they were coming out w/ the small > people and village accessories made out of porcelin. Does anyone > else collect Dept. 56? If so do you have any more info? They have them up on their website at http://www.department56.com - they're little boxes - Harry on his nimbus, hagrid, hedwig, a snitch, "hermione the bookworm" and harry with the sorting hat on - and they purportedly have "secrets" inside. From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Sun Oct 22 02:18:56 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:18:56 EDT Subject: Continuity Question Message-ID: <4e.c7e1598.2723a890@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4347 Forgive me if this has been discussed. I brought it up before, but either no one commented, or I missed it. In the end of GoF, Voldemorts wand extracted the following people: Diggory, old man, Bertha Jorkins, the dad, then the mom. But the wand is supposed to extract the 'spirits' of who Voldemort killed, backwords. This would mean he killed his mom first, then went after the dad. But didn't he kill the dad first, go after Harry, and his mom got in the middle, so he had to kill her to get to Harry? Maybe I have this all wrong, but its bugging me. I read the first 3 books to the family from the library, and have them on order, thus we only own the last book right now, so I can't check out all the facts. Thanks for the help! ~shahara in WI From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Sun Oct 22 02:19:46 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:19:46 -0000 Subject: potter books. Message-ID: <8stis2+vt32@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4348 upon watching jk rowling on the today show, it suddenly hit me how many children read these books. and really young ones, too. has anyone else forgotten that these are actually children's books? i was actually asking myself how they understand the books, how they could read book 4, because of it's size. you know what? i feel that jk rowling means for these books to be read by adults, so we feel like children again. hehe. odile From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 22 02:20:03 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:20:03 -0000 Subject: The acquisition of wealth In-Reply-To: <20001021200654.9219.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8stisj+dfba@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4349 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > One thing that has been puzzling me for some time is > where the wealth of the Malfoys originates. I found > an interesting creature in Norwegian folklore, > however, that might be in the spirit of the Malfoys. > The name of the creature in Norwegian is Dragedokke, > which directly translated means "pulling doll". It is very interesting to hear of the Dragedokke, but I think that in both Britain and America, it is generally understood that some people just inherited money from their ancestors. The Malfoys are 'old money', which in Britain probably means it started when a Malfoy ancestor killed a whole lot of Saxons and took over their farmland in 1066. In USA,inherited money that started from successful stock market manipulation in 1899 would be considered 'old money'. By now, maybe inherited money that started with bootlegging (smuggling illegal alcoholic beverages) in the 1920s might be considered 'old money' in USA. From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 22 02:25:02 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:25:02 -0000 Subject: Mysteries of McGonagall In-Reply-To: <8ssn04+agja@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8stj5u+pb9n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4350 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > > > Neil Ward wrote: > > > > > > > I have always found it strange that she asked him how he knew > it was her? > > > > (After changing from cat to > > > > >Professor). Has Dumbledore never seen her in her cat form? > After all > > > > those years? > > > > > > > > Yes, I agree. I posted something on that very point ages ago. > Is Dumbledore > > > > *that* lacking in observation? Perhaps he left that knowledge > in his > > > > Pensieve and forgot to put it back in his head. > > > > > > Even odder, considering he was the Transfiguration teacher prior > to his > > > headmastership. > > > > I've always had a sense that the first chapter of that first book > felt sort of > > "tentative" to me, and that it raised implications that JKR just > didn't go back > > and fix when she had finished the book. Something about McGonagall > and > > Dumbledore's characterization felt a little bit different from the > way they felt > > in the rest of the book; nothing I could quite put my finger on. > > It is certainly possible that the difference in writing style of the > first chapter is an inconsistency that JKR should have fixed. But > another explanation for the different feel of that chapter is that it > is the only one (in PS/SS, anyway) that is told from the adult POV. > Every other time we see Dumbledore, McGonagall and Hagrid they are > interacting with Harry. I think we all had the experience, as kids, > of discovering how different teachers are when they interact with > other adults than when they interact with their students. Maybe that > was what she was trying to capture. On the other hand, maybe she > just hadnt flushed (fleshed?) the characters out too well at that > point. > > -- Joywitch Hmmmm....after how many years? Remember Chapter 1 in PS/SS was 11 years before we first meet Harry. Do we know how many years McGonagall was a professor at Hogwarts? Maybe she WASN'T his deputy at that time? Maybe they didn't know each other too well. OR perhaps their relationship developed in 11 years, and so they sounded "different" in that conversation. Susan From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 22 02:15:58 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:15:58 -0500 Subject: Night fears from Harry Potter Message-ID: <39F24DDE.9A0C0A15@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4351 I started reading the HP books, like so many of us did, by reading them to my children, specifically my oldest daughter Fiona, now 7. When GoF came out, I read it first, a little worried about what I had heard about it in advance (ok, we can more accurately say I gulped it down in five hours flat the first day it was released). I had my husband read it, too, and after a good deal of careful discussion, we decided to read it to Fiona. Partway through, I got the Jim Dale CDs, and she has listened to those several times. Her little sister (4) has listened to those, too, although we have always sent her out of the room from the Third Task on, so she hasn't heard the ending of the book. All seemed fine. But a couple of nights ago, as I was sitting reading through the hundreds of posts you incredibly interesting and verbiose people have snowed me under with, Fiona came to my office and admitted she has started having trouble with "her imagination running away with her." Not exactly nightmares, but when she's in that state between sleep and wakefulness, she sometimes thinks Voldemort is coming up the stairs toward her room. Or maybe a big snake. Part of our problem is that Fiona's reading level has perhaps vastly outstripped her emotional maturity. She is a 7 year old, in 2nd grade, with a vivid imagination who reads beyond the 7th grade level (for non-Americans, that's about the reading level of a 13 year old.) After talking with her for a while about night fears, I reminded her of what Harry had used to defeat Voldemort--or at least the memory of Tom Riddle--in the Chamber of Secrets. "Remember what Dumbledore sent to Harry? He sent the Sorting Hat and Fawkes, right?" Fiona nodded. So I took a costume witch's hat we had in her dress up box (she's planning on being Hermione this Halloween) and told her, "This is the Sorting Hat. Can you pretend that it is?" She nodded. She knows all about pretending. "We'll put it right in the doorway, and then Voldemort and the snake won't be able to come in. And . . . " I seized one of her beanie babies, a parrot. "You can pretend this is Fawkes. See? He's even red, like Fawkes. Take him to bed with you. Both Voldemort and his snake are afraid of Fawkes, and they won't dare come near you as long as you have Fawkes." She went to bed, satisfied, and all seems well for now. But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who have read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any night fears due to the books? How have you handled them? Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 22 02:22:21 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:22:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] the next book References: <39F1DA9B.E880BA80@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39F24F5D.4C06DF46@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4352 heidi wrote: > and peg - some of us are really hoping that you eventually do give us a new > novel - almost as much as we're looking forward to Book 5... Well, maybe I would go off and write . . . if only you people would all quit being so INTERESTING. As it is, instead of fiction I'm working on the next 7 Heavenly Virtues essay (charity) and hope to post it very soon. P. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 22 02:27:17 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:27:17 -0000 Subject: Names (was Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <20001021234758.11079.qmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8stja5+gvvc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4353 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > Meaning of Mirjam is unclear, but may be 'the plump'. In English it's Miriam. Miriam means Marah-Yam, Bitter-Sea. Nice co-incidence for Maria Stella Maris (the Virgin Mary, Star of the Sea, a title she inherited from the Roman goddess Venus) For all the common names, like Fred, Bill, Charlie, Molly, Harry, even Arthur, I THINK the JKR meaning has more to do with the social connotation of the name to modern people than with its etymology. (Also, our Bill Weasley may be named after his Uncle Bilious, who saw a Grim and died, rather than after any William.) I think "Harry" has more to do with the stirring speeches made by the Henry V character in Shakespeare's plays and his soldiers' battlecry "For England, Harry, and St. George!" than with 'home ruler'. I think "Arthur" doesn't have anything to do with bears, but harks to King Arthur, who valiantly defended Celtic Britain from invading Saxons, and who died promising to return and help when his people *really* needed him. Did he return during the Blitz and do something to make it stop? From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 22 02:36:36 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:36:36 -0000 Subject: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question In-Reply-To: <8srr2d+s53i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8stjrk+p3gd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4354 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > Kelley: > > didn't it say Hagrid was in Huff in one of the books? > > Nick: > > Not as far as I can find, having done a quick search of books 1 to > 3, all I > > could find in reference to Hagrid and Hufflepuff was: > > > > PS/SS Chapter 5 > > ============== > > > > Hagrid: "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are > a lot > > o'duffers, but --" > > > > Harry: "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff" said Harry gloomily. > > > > Hagrid: "Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin," said Hagrid > darkly. "There's not > > a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You- > Know-Who > > was one." > > Kelley: > Thanks for the assistance, Nick. This was the passage that Scott > found, too. Well, heck, I was sure it was in there somewhere. > ~Where~ did I get that from??? (At least I can take comfort in the > fact that Scott was thinking the same thing. I am not alone in my > madness.) > I don't know where YOU got the idea that Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, Kelley, but I know where *I* got it! In the Scholastic quiz (the one where you can't miss an answer and then challenge someone else-- am I remembering right?) THEY had a question about which house Hagrid (JKR's favorite character, let us remember, and maybe he WILL find someone who loves magical creatures), and to win you had to answer Hufflepuff. Susan From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 22 02:42:05 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 02:42:05 -0000 Subject: Night fears from Harry Potter In-Reply-To: <39F24DDE.9A0C0A15@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8stk5t+c4lh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4355 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who > have read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any > night fears due to the books? How have you handled them? I don't have any children, but I remember that when I was a child, I had night fears of the Black Riders (Nazgul) when I read Lord of the Rings. I dealt with it by reciting the "Four posts around my bed, four angels round my head" nursery rhyme. Which was very helpful even tho' my bed didn't have posts and I don't believe in the four evangelists. Four post around my bed Four angels round my head Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, bless the bed that I lay on and if I die before I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take. From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 22 02:58:54 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:58:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Night fears from Harry Potter References: <39F24DDE.9A0C0A15@ibm.net> Message-ID: <39F257ED.1E11325F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4356 Peg Kerr wrote: > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who have > read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any night fears > due to the books? How have you handled them? I haven't had fears due to the books, and my daughter's a bit younger than yours, but our most effective way to handle night fears has been simple so far. We have a quarterly exterminator, and I have in the past had her tell him what to spray for besides the scorpions and spiders (skeletons, ghosts, bad guys, etc.). She knows that when he sprays for bugs, it kills them--she's seen the dead bugs. So she knows the other stuff either won't come in or won't be there long. The exterminator man is a gem who listens very seriously and tells her, "I'll take care of it, ma'am." In the absence of an exterminator (or between visits), I get an empty can of something, hairspray or such, and put a label on it. It's monster (or whatever) repellent. Because my daughter knows that when we put waterproof spray on stuff, the water doesn't get in. So I let her spray around the doors and windows and wherever else, and she knows the monsters (or whatever) can't get in. Your daughter might be too old for this. But maybe not, because the things that seem silliest in the daytime (like your blanket will stop anything coming at you, so you duck under it) are absolute bastions at night. It's an idea...? --Amanda From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Sun Oct 22 03:02:41 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:02:41 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Night fears from Harry Potter Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4357 I read the books to my sons, 14, 9 and 3. All were enthralled, and not afraid in the least. However, we did read them during the day, since we homeschool. Perhaps read at night, it might be different. ~shahara in WI From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 22 03:02:35 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:02:35 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] the next book Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4358 Who, us? Interesting? Heck no. We're boring. Ho hum. ***yawn*** Boring, boring, boring. We're not interesting, gang, are we? (Wink wink nudge nudge, eh wot wot?) voicelady From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 22 03:05:21 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:05:21 -0000 Subject: Titles, Prince Ombra (was: Re: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question) In-Reply-To: <39F1E77F.364406BF@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8stlhh+btie@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4359 > The Goblet > was the object of destiny, if you will, which set everything in motion for > the climactic events at the end of the book. > > > Look at it this way: Book IV is the middle of the seven books. The Chapter > entitled "The Goblet of Fire" is Chapter 16 in a 36 chapter book. The > Goblet of Fire, therefore, is the magical object which appears ALMOST > EXACTLY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SERIES. This is beginning to sound like the Aeneid.....divided into thirds, endlessly..... I love your analysis, Peg, please keep it coming From magicalhp at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 03:06:35 2000 From: magicalhp at yahoo.com (magicalhp at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:06:35 -0000 Subject: Today Show Transcript Message-ID: <8stljr+i2co@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4360 If anyone would like to read a transcript of J.K. Rowling's appearance on the Today Show, it's here: http://www.magicalharrypotter.com/TodayShow.html Sorry about the colors. They're a wee scary as this was done on the fly. Cheers, ~Rachel http://www.magicalharrypotter.com From lrcjestes at msn.com Sun Oct 22 02:34:47 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:34:47 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Night fears from Harry Potter References: <39F24DDE.9A0C0A15@ibm.net> Message-ID: <007901c03bd0$a5cebe40$718fd6ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4361 > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who have > read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any night fears > due to the books? How have you handled them? > > Peg I, too, have a 7 yo, which is how I got into these books...he's gotten over them (although there was no question who he was going to be for Halloween) and I haven't ...but anyway. I was worried about book 4 as well. I read it all the way through and I told him I would summarize the things I thought were a bit scary. As we read the only chapter I really summarized was Chapter 32, Flesh, Blood and Bone...about V's reincorporation. What I did was instead of reading the description of V (pre body) directly, I described it in terms of a rather funny cartoon character (from the nick show sponge bob....described him as squidward if anyone is familiar with that) squidward is a rather amorphous type squidy thing....anyway he laughed....and although he may not have gotten the full impact of how evil evil was and therefore how brave Harry was, I had decided he could still get the point of the book without introducing the visual to him....then when V was put into the cauldron, my husband Randy (some of you rmember him...rather a cut up...) had already been refering to it as Vodemort soup...so that took the edge off that scary visual. So I guess we took the weeny way out and masked some of the more creepy visuals...I figure when he's old enough to read it himself he will be old enough for those visuals...of couse by that time the picture of squidward in a soup bowl will have probably stuck. JKR would probably be horrified by our approach, but that's what I thought best for my son. He took the rest of the story without blinking, and was never scared by anything in the other 3 books, was never even creeped out by the dementor's and every time I ask if this or that is creepy he says in his most teenage sounding voice (for a 7 yo) "Mo-om (its 2 sylables) its not real...its just a story! This really doesn't help you...after the fact, but that was our approach and will probably be our approach to the next book, but I guess he will be able to read the next one himself by the time it arrives, so I probably won't have that option...but then he'll be older too so.....So far our 4 yo has not shown any interest in books that long, and has listened to some of them, but never hung around long enough to get any of the scary stuff. Now the people across the street from us, both of their kids have gotten creeped out by PS/SS they didn't even finish the first book....so it depends on the child and how sensitive he/she is to visualizing and internalizing scary stuff...my son tends to be able to keep it at bay. carole From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 03:11:00 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:11:00 -0000 Subject: Setting of Diagon Alley Message-ID: <8stls4+e1vp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4362 I was thinking about the filming at Oxford (somebody had mentioned that they might be doing the Diagon Alley, DA, there, but it doesn't seem to be true) so I got to thinking, just what does DA look like? The wizarding world seems to have adapted different things from each time period of our (muggle) history. Hogwarts is very midieval-ish, and the H. Express comes straight from the 1940's. So what from whence does DA come? I, for one, have always unequivocally pictured it as looking much as London did before the Great Fire. Very, Elizabethen, with the gables, and that crossed timber style. What do you call it? DA, IMHO is full of narrow streets, with overhanging second storeys and cobblestone streets and, well you get the idea. Now I'm not the smartest w/ Architecture but I believe that what I described would be Elizabethen, right? Well I'm interested to see how other people picture DA? Comments anyone? Scott From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 22 03:16:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:16:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Setting of Diagon Alley References: <8stls4+e1vp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F25C0A.C4DCD15A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4363 Scott wrote: > Now I'm not the smartest w/ Architecture but I believe that what I > described would be Elizabethen, right? Well I'm interested to see > how other people picture DA? I've only been in England once, on our way home from our honeymoon in Poland, and we drove up to York from London and then back (had a quest to fulfill, long off-topic romantic story, etc.) Anyway, I picture Diagon Alley like those little streets full of shops in York, where the upper storeys hang out over the lower, and each building looks different than the one next to it, but they're all stuck together anyway, and they've sagged from age, and there's lots of half-timbers and stuff. How zat? By the way, Simon, I love your posts but curse your name, because these places you mention so casually going by are names in books to me, impossibly faraway and hard to imagine as real places where dogs wander and pigeons poop. Sigh. I wanna go back to England. Or Poland--Krakow was awesome. --Amanda From Ellimist15 at aol.com Sun Oct 22 03:24:52 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:24:52 EDT Subject: Dumbledore an animagus? Message-ID: <83.1c736f1.2723b805@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4364 Although I think the bee animagus theory definitely has some merit, J.K. explained early on that she imagined Dumbledore to be a great music lover and walk around the castle humming to himself, hence, a bumblebee. Ellie Rosenthal http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ << Another thing which supports the case for Dumbledore to be an animagus. PS/SS - Chapter 1. "A man appeared on the corner the cat had been watching, appeared so suddenly and silently you'd have thought he'd just popped out of the ground." Hmm he could have apperated, but a little later on it says, when talking about celebrations: "All day? When you could have been celebrating? I must have passed a dozen feasts and parties on my way here." He PASSED a dozen feasts and parties. If he had apperated, he could not have PASSED. Thus I conclude, that he flew or walked past these feasts. But if he walked, how did he know it was a feast, and not just someone playing loud music if he flew, then he could have seen through the windows. He did not arrive on Privet Drive with a broomstick. Getting back to the book - "For some reason, the sight of the cat seemed to amuse him. He chuckled and muttered, ` I should have known.' " OK so Dumbledore presumably knows the form that McGonagall takes, so could guess that the cat was her. However, the cat was at the other end of the street - so he would not have got a close up look. What was it that Sirius said about one animagus being able to recognise another. I seem to recall something about that, in connection with Crookshanks. I wonder how far away they can tell if the other animal is an animagus? "Harry must have walked straight past him, so desperate to get to the mirror he hadn't noticed him." Fat chance if Dumbledore was there in person, Harry would have recognised him - would he not? If Dumbledore was hidden (for example as a bumblebee) then Harry would not have noticed him. Something else to consider Jo has said in a number of interviews that Dumbledore is the old english word for Bumblebee. Considering the lack of information that flows from her mouth - why, WHY, does she mention this. Is it because she wants us to know that there is a connection between Dumbledore and a Bumblebee? Oh and one last thing, to ponder on. How did McGonagall know where to look, to see Dumbledore appear when she was sat in Privet Drive? Nick. >> From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 22 03:28:20 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:28:20 -0000 Subject: Today Show Transcript In-Reply-To: <8stljr+i2co@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8stmsk+hs28@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4365 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, magicalhp at y... wrote: > If anyone would like to read a transcript of J.K. Rowling's > appearance on the Today Show, it's here: > > http://www.magicalharrypotter.com/TodayShow.html > > Sorry about the colors. They're a wee scary as this was done on the > fly. > > Cheers, > > ~Rachel > http://www.magicalharrypotter.com THANK YOU for posting this. JKR does NOT say that the next title will be HP and the Order of the Phoenix...She says that she's choosing between two titles and that is ONE of them! susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 22 03:32:34 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 03:32:34 -0000 Subject: Setting of Diagon Alley In-Reply-To: <39F25C0A.C4DCD15A@texas.net> Message-ID: <8stn4i+9ge1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4366 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Scott wrote: > > > Now I'm not the smartest w/ Architecture but I believe that what I > > described would be Elizabethen, right? Well I'm interested to see > > how other people picture DA? > > I've only been in England once, on our way home from our honeymoon in > Poland, and we drove up to York from London and then back (had a quest to > fulfill, long off-topic romantic story, etc.) Anyway, I picture Diagon Alley > like those little streets full of shops in York, where the upper storeys > hang out over the lower, and each building looks different than the one next > to it, but they're all stuck together anyway, and they've sagged from age, > and there's lots of half-timbers and stuff. > Has anyone ever been in Lindos on the island of Rhodes in Greece.. I subconsciously have been imagining Dragon Alley as like the old city...cobblestones, just pedestrians, small shops, winding.... not overhangs..but signs...perhaps on the order of the tavern in the Scarlet Pimpernel.....stores very close to each other..the outdoor cafe... I'd like to go there..... > How zat? By the way, Simon, I love your posts but curse your name, because > these places you mention so casually going by are names in books to me, > impossibly faraway and hard to imagine as real places where dogs wander and > pigeons poop. Sigh. I wanna go back to England. Or Poland--Krakow was > awesome. > > --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 22 03:29:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:29:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Today Show Transcript References: <8stmsk+hs28@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F25F03.E26EF779@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4367 Susan McGee wrote: > THANK YOU for posting this. > > JKR does NOT say that the next title will be HP and the Order of the > Phoenix...She says that she's choosing between two titles and that is > ONE of them! Yeah, I heard her mention this on Rosie. I do think she's going with the "definitely" pose now for a reason. She's tossed us our bone to chew; now while we growl amongst ourselves and worry it, she can proceed without having to be asked at least one recurring question. She can change it later if she wants. --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 05:01:59 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:01:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Night fears from Harry Potter (Slightly OT!) References: <8stk5t+c4lh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002101c03be5$35c004a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4368 Rita, I like that poem now, but as a kid, my parents taught the typical Christian prayer, Now I lay me down to sleep....I disliked intensely the last two lines, if I die... (Still shudders about those lines years later!) At the age of Peg's daughter (7-9 years), I had a few nightmares due to movies (like Ichabod Disney's version that used to be on each Halloween used to scare me half to death!) or other things, (believe this or not) like the six o clock news! (or the 11 o'clock, which I didn't get to see often) I used to have nightmares about floods, tornadoes, and such... but the most frequent one was fire. I dreamt nightly about the house catching on fire. Nothing anyone did would stop it. It's the age. Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Rita Winston To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 9:42 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Night fears from Harry Potter --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who > have read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any > night fears due to the books? How have you handled them? I don't have any children, but I remember that when I was a child, I had night fears of the Black Riders (Nazgul) when I read Lord of the Rings. I dealt with it by reciting the "Four posts around my bed, four angels round my head" nursery rhyme. Which was very helpful even tho' my bed didn't have posts and I don't believe in the four evangelists. Four post around my bed Four angels round my head Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, bless the bed that I lay on and if I die before I wake I pray the Lord my soul to take. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From JandLComm at aol.com Sun Oct 22 04:22:31 2000 From: JandLComm at aol.com (JandLComm at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 04:22:31 -0000 Subject: JKR on CNN Transcript Message-ID: <8stq27+cb41@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4369 The transcipt for the Larry King interview from Oct 20 can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0010/20/lkl.00.html Enjoy! (Back I go to lurking mode...) From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 22 04:48:22 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 04:48:22 -0000 Subject: Setting of Diagon Alley In-Reply-To: <39F25C0A.C4DCD15A@texas.net> Message-ID: <8strim+qkph@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4370 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Scott wrote: > > > Now I'm not the smartest w/ Architecture but I believe that what > > I described would be Elizabethen, right? Well I'm interested to > > see how other people picture DA? > > Anyway, I picture Diagon Alley like those little streets full of > shops in York, where the upper storeys hang out over the lower, and > each building looks different than the one next to it, but they're > all stuck together anyway, and they've sagged from age, > and there's lots of half-timbers and stuff. Amanda, I think you and Simon are in complete agreement. He said Elizabethan and what's the name of that style with crossed beams, and you described what sounds like an Elizabethan street and said 'half-timbers'. As soon I as read Simon's post, I could "see" Diagon Alley as looking like the Renaissance Faire, except with paved sidewalks and wetter weather, and thus I am not COMPLETELY sure what Diagon Alley previously looked like to me. But I suspect it looked like a street of Victorian or mock-Victorian shops, maybe with a proper macadamized road instead of cobblestones. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 22 04:58:56 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:58:56 -0500 Subject: 7 Heavenly Virtues: Charity (Long) Message-ID: <39F27410.6CAC150@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4371 The third of the 7 Heavenly Virtues is called "Charity." When I'm speaking of charity in this discussion, I am referring to "love," in the sense of the Greek word "agape." If I remember correctly the scraps I picked up in high school, college and graduate school during courses on Greek tragedy and biblical translation--and that's a big IF--agape is "pure" love, as between God and man, or selfless love between man and and his fellow man (yeah, yeah, I mean both male and female when I say "man" here--although the Greeks might not agree--but that's another topic). Agape love is distinguished from Philos, love between friends, and eros, erotic love. I'm not going to go into an extensive discussion of definitions and the difficulty of translating Greek into English. Classics majors may feel free, however, to chime in with helpful nuances I'm missing if they'd like. Anyway, generosity, helpfulness, benevolence, mercy are related to this concept of charity/agape love. Note that they all have the common component of selflessness. Now let's look at this idea, which we'll call "charity" throughout the Harry Potter books. Several points to consider: First of all, a little background: you'll remember if you went to the website I referred to earlier www.deadlysins.com/virtues.html that the first three of the 7 Heavenly Virtues are derived from Christian writings, and St. Paul described charity as the most important one ("so faith, hope and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.") [Again, a clarification: for purposes of these discussions, yes, I'm trying to view these Virtues in a secular, more general sense. I know that we have pagan, Jewish, agnostic, etc., as well as Christian members on this list, and I think the issue of moral development, as I'm trying to trace it in these book, is of interest to all of these groups, not just Christians. I'm simply acknowledging that the first three Virtues, at least, are derived from Christian writings.] Charity, besides being the greatest of the virtues, it is perhaps the hardest, the most difficult to achieve, as it is the most antithetical to natural human instinct. (I re-read this sentence and realize I'm probably revealing a Christian bias. I believe that human beings, if unredeemed, are basically selfish. Oh, well. We'll accept that as my bias and move on.) As such, achieving the virtue of Charity is a particular challenge to Harry in his moral development. I hope that what I mean shall become clear in the following discussion. We'll begin, as always, with the Dursleys. Now, the Dursleys are not very reflective people. I suppose if you were to ask Vernon and Petunia, they would say that they love Dudley very much. And they would probably characterize themselves as generous--after all, haven't they taken Harry in and given him a home? Neither of these statements hold up very well. The fact is, the Dudleys don't have a scrap of agape love/charity. Their cruelties against Harry I've enumerated before. Toward Dudley, on the other hand, Vernon and Petunia would say and probably even believe that they feel love, but one must doubt a kind of "love" that manifests itself as blind indulgence that has turned their son into a selfish, sadistic, greedy monster. The sad truth is that the only experience Harry had with love before he came to Hogwarts was the fifteen months he spent with his parents. And he lost that love, ironically, because they gave their lives to save him. A paradoxical mystery: their love (esp. Lily's, Voldemort implies) led to the sacrifice which saved Harry's life, yet left him bereft of that one thing that would have let him enjoy the life they saved for him: their love. And, as it was self-sacrificing, it can be characterized as charity, agape love. And so for the majority of his life, Harry has been without love. A psychologist would say that without it, Harry might be in danger of having great difficulty in building the moral framework he needs to live ethically with others. If you are bonded to no one, why should you care about other people? Why not hurt them, use them, discard them--who cares? a neglected abandoned child might decide, reasoning from his/her innate human selfishness. That's what fundamentally causes psychopaths. That's what, in fact, probably caused Voldemort. Yet, whatever James and Lily gave him, it seems to have been enough to start him down the right road, despite what he suffered with the Dursleys. He learns to care about Ron and Hermione. And make no mistake, his caring for both of them is tested--for Hermione in Book 3 (over the incident with Scabbers and Crookshanks) and for Ron in Book 4 (over the Goblet of Fire). Both tests of friendship are tests of Harry's charity, and he nearly gets both wrong. "I gotta tell yeh," Hagrid says, reproving Harry and Ron for the quarrel with Hermione, "I thought you two'd value yer friend more'n brooksticks or rats." Again, with Ron in Book 4, Harry behaves badly--for example, the scene in the common room, where Harry loses his temper and throws the button at Ron. But all comes out in the end--Harry chooses to set those friendships aright, partly because events clarify the things that led to misunderstandings, but partly because he misses the caring and friendship he had with both Ron and Hermione when he was on the outs with them. And that is good; it shows Harry's development. He has gone from someone who lived without either giving or receiving charity, who reacted as coldly toward the Dursleys as they acted toward him, to someone who realizes that something is missing when relationships go awry. He is coming to genuinely care for other people, and not just Ron, Hermione and Hagrid. As I discussed in the last essay, on hope, Harry sees in Book 3 the playing out of the drama from the previous generation's struggle with Voldemort, which foreshadows what he himself will go through, in Book 4 (and presumably beyond). Specifically, he witnesses Sirius' and Lupin's confrontation of Peter Pettigrew, which brings this theme of charity right to the foreground. Let's look at that pivotal scene again: "He [Voldemort] was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. "Wh--what was there to be gained by refusing him?" "What was there to be gained by fighting the most evil wizard who has ever existed?" said Black, with a terrible fury in his face. "Only innocent lives, Peter!" "You don't understand!" whined Pettigrew. "He would have killed me, Sirius!" "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" "NO!" Harry yelled. He ran forward, placing himself in front of Pettigrew, facing the wands. "You can't kill him," he said breathlessly. "You can't. . . We'll take him up to the castle. We'll hand him over to dementors. He can go to Azkaban. . . but don't kill him." Note Peter's question. "What was there to be gained by resisting him [Voldemort]?" That is pure selfishness speaking. For those of you familiar with Lawrene Kohlberg's theory of the stages of moral development, Peter is stuck at the very first stage, the need to avoid punishment. For further reading on Kohlberg's theory, see: http://moon.pepperdine.edu/gsep/class/ethics/kohlberg/Stages_Moral-Development.html That is pure HUMANNESS speaking, the natural urge for self-preservation. Sirius' answer is profound: the only thing to be gained when you lose yourself is the knowledge that your gain is for others, the ones that you love. Which you can care about ONLY because you love. Because Peter did not truly love, he did not truly understand the enormity of his crime. But this points up a very hard thing about charity--if you do it right, you may get nothing for it (if you look at it from the human selfish point of view). Just as Lily gave up her life for her son, the true virtue of charity may mean giving up everything for the one you love. The comfort you have is knowing that the ones you love would be willing to do the same for you. It is like faith, in that having faith may not mean that you get what you want. Having charity may gain you nothing but death at the end of Voldemort's wand . . . and the knowledge that the lives you have saved have gained a few more seconds, which they will hopefully use to fight on. Sirius and Lupin, although they understand the nature of self-sacrificing love, do not embody charity perfectly. They would have died for Peter--but since Peter refused the deal, as far as Sirius and Lupin are concerned, the deal is off. "You should have realized," Lupin said quietly, "that if Voldemort didn't kill you, we would." This is a higher level of morality than Peter showed--which was pure selfishness and wish to avoid punishment--but it is not yet pure charity, as it is still based somewhat on a tit for tat reasoning. But Harry intervenes and demonstrates something related to charity: he shows mercy, something that Peter doesn't deserve. Harry is profoundly insightful at this moment, because when Peter admits as much, Harry tells Peter that he isn't doing it as much for him but for Sirius and Lupin: "I don't reckon my dad would have wanted them[Sirius and Lupin] to become killers -- just for you." I'm not quite sure what exactly has brought Harry to this point in his moral development. Bonds with friends, the bitter experience of the Dursleys to teach him what it was like to live WITHOUT charity, or perhaps the lingering effects of his mother's sacrifice . . . or something else, who knows? Whatever it is, Harry shows here that he understand charity, and although he wavers and wobbles sometimes, he has chosen his side. A few other points, which I am not quite sure how to work into a coherently flowing essay, so I'll just attack them gracelessly one by one. Hermione and the house elves: I think Hermione thinks she is showing benevolence and mercy in her dealings with the house elves, but somehow, her efforts don't seem to be appreciated by anybody. I'll try to deal with this in more depth when I do the upcoming essay on the Virtue of Justice. Also: Harry, I think, will have to face moral decisions about charity in the upcoming books which I think will come closer and closer to resembling his mother and Peter Pettigrew's dilemma. He will need to decide, am I willing to stick my neck out for someone I care about? In a way he has faced this before to a lesser degree: he did it for Ginny in the second book, and for Ron during the Second Task in the Fourth book. But I think that the upcoming decision(s) will be more stark, more hope-less. He took a risk for Ginny, but when he went down into that tunnel, he still hoped that he would come out alive. Similarly, when he went down for Ron, he knew that there was a theoretical risk of death, but he really didn't think that he would die there at the bottom of the lake (although he was afraid that Ron, Hermione, Cho and Gabrielle might). In the past books, when Harry has been truly cornered and really looking death in the eye, he has been in situations where he is simply trying to save himself. He was alone at the climax of the first and fourth books, and he wasn't facing Voldemort directly in the third. In the second, he thought that Ginny might already be dead. But I think that in a future book we might see something different. We will see him be put in a situation where he must decide whether he would willingly sacrifice himself for someone else, or perhaps for many other people. In a way, I think it is rather unfair that I'm trying to do this post in the middle of the series, because we haven't had a chance to see whether Harry will truly fall in love. Perhaps, if he had a relationship with someone he loved in a special way (with Hermione? Ginny? Cho? Down, all you 'shippers! Down!), he would gladly sacrifice himself. But perhaps it won't be someone he loves that way, with eros-love. Perhaps he will face Peter Pettigrew's dilemma defending Ron (philos-love), or Hagrid, or Dumbledore, or Hogwarts as a whole. But I think he will have to face it. Someday. And to do it successfully, he will have to demonstrate agape-love, as his mother did for him. One final note: I don't think anyone has ever mentioned the special poignancy of the fact that in the scene Harry has with Cedric's parents, he is seeing a mirror of his own tragedy. Here he sees a pair of bereaved parents whose world has fallen apart because they have lost a brave, beloved son, just as his own world fell apart because he lost a pair of brave, beloved parents. In seeing their grief, he experiences his own grief all over again, from a different, almost opposite, angle. The final sign of charity I want to mention that Harry demonstrates is his benevolence in giving the money from the Tri-Wizard Tournament to Fred and George. In part, it is not even a sacrifice for him, because he truly doesn't want the money. But he doesn't throw it away, as he threatens to George and Fred to do. He uses it to light a candle to drive back the darkness--to give Fred and George the opportunity to start the joke shop, so that they can create the laughs they will all so badly need. And he tells Fred and George to buy dress robes for Ron--in a manner that will not hurt Ron's pride. Harry stands at the end of GoF, weary and wounded, but among friends. He does not have to live apart and alone, as Peter Pettigrew did, who chose to become a rat, literally, rather than accept the hard demands of living by the precepts of charity. Yet the greatest test of Harry's charity is probably still to come. "As Hagrid said, what would come, would come . . . and he would have to meet it when it did." I'm not very satisfied with this essay. I don't think it's one of my best. I can't remember who it was who remarked at the end of a letter to a friend that he didn't have time to write a four-page letter, so he had written an eight-page one (Chesterton, maybe?) This essay has rather that feel. Long and sprawley because I haven't had time to tighten it, and I'm too fried now anyway to try and so will send it on its way. I hope you will all forgive me. Comments? For those of you who would like to review the earlier essays I have written about the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Heavenly Virtues up until this one, following are the message numbers: 7 Deadly Sins: Pride: 1553 Envy: 1699 Gluttony: 1878 Lust: 2118 Anger: 2545 Covetousness: 2877 Sloth: 2998 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith: 3468 Hope: 3660 Related essays, possibly also of interest: Loyalty: 788 Secrets: 957 Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 Peg From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 22 05:31:49 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 06:31:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Book 5 title (was Today Show) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001022053149.008f84a0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4372 Amanda wrote: >Susan McGee wrote: > >>>> THANK YOU for posting this. >>>> >>>> JKR does NOT say that the next title will be HP and the Order of the >>>> Phoenix...She says that she's choosing between two titles and that is >>>> ONE of them! > >Yeah, I heard her mention this on Rosie. I do think she's going with the >"definitely" pose now for a reason. She's tossed us our bone to chew; now >while we growl amongst ourselves and worry it, she can proceed without >having to be asked at least one recurring question. She can change it later >if she wants. Those who were in this group before the release of GoF will remember that we were sending each other secret messages about the fact that Book 4 would be called "Harry Potter and the Chalice of Flame". Someone in the group had got hold of a proof copy of the book with that title on it. However, when the book came out, it was called, tah-DAH!: "...Goblet of Fire" and we all sat around tutting and looking foolish. Certainly, in the UK, Bloomsbury went to extraordinary lengths to keep the title of Book a secret. I've never seen anything like it. They milked the publicity angle completely dry, to the extent that when the book finally hit the stands I was past caring what it was called. If the book ends up being called "...Order of the Phoenix", I'll eat my sorting hat (please don't save this message and hold me to that - it's just a figure of speech). Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From vderark at bccs.org Sun Oct 22 05:32:02 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 05:32:02 -0000 Subject: What that book title might also refer to In-Reply-To: <8ssfh1+c0m7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8stu4i+dnsc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4373 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > >Re: The "Order" of the Phoenix > >Of course, it means order as in a religious order or the Order of > >Merlin 1/c, that sort of thing. Or maybe, just maybe, it refers to > >the order of spells coming out of >a phoenix-feather-equiped wand > >caught in Priori Incantatem... > > Or maybe "order" as in command, maybe the bird is getting bossy. > Or maybe "order" as in organized, maybe the bird is a neat freak. And this was verbal, right? So we really are just assuming that what she said was "order." Maybe she said The ODOR of the Phoenix! Aha! Steve (Let's see how far we can run with THAT) Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Oct 22 06:09:33 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 07:09:33 +0100 Subject: HP as a play? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001022060933.008e5f60@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4374 I've just been watching playwright and poet, Adrian Mitchell being interviewed on TV. I wasn't really watching, but then he started talking about "the Potter books" and how the writing "tumbles on like a river". Then he admitted that he'd like to adapt the Harry Potter books for the stage and there was some discussion along the lines of "how on earth would you do Quidditch on the stage?" Would Harry Potter work on the stage? I have a sudden vision of Crookshanks, either as Dick Whittington's panto cat or as one the cats-in-a-leotard from the musical "Cats!" That aside, I think it would be fun. The most unlikely things end up on stage. I remember being a bit startled that Iain Banks' "The Wasp Factory" had been made into a play, but by all accounts it was really good. The idea of a musical about the Titanic disaster also seemed a bit weird, but it was a success. Why not Harry Potter? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From vderark at bccs.org Sun Oct 22 06:15:38 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 06:15:38 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow, chronology of the story In-Reply-To: <8ssfh1+c0m7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4375 We don't know Hagrid's route from Godric's Hollow to Privet Drive in the slightest, and we can deduce absolutely nothing about the location of Godric's Hollow from the books. The mention of Harry falling asleep over Bristol tells us nothing. Godric's Hollow could be anywhere, and not just in England. Hagrid almost certainly didn't go directly from Godric's Hollow to Privet Drive, since it took him MOST OF A DAY to get there (or more likely, he went somewhere else first). Here's the scoop: The Potters were killed on Oct 31. Hagrid and Sirius show up too late to do anything but cry on each other's shoulders. Hagrid takes Harry "before the Muggles started swarming around" and Sirius, after failing to convince Hagrid to give the baby to him, gives Hagid the flying motorcycle. We don't know where either of them went from there, except that Sirius was going after Pettigrew. The next day, Nov 1, the wizarding community began to get the news and celebrate. This is the morning Mr. Dursley sees all those unusual people on the streets and the owls are flying around in daylight. This goes on all day. Also that day, Pettigrew and Sirius had their showdown (according to PA, it was the next day after the Potters died). It is late in the evening of the 1st of Nov that Hagrid finally shows up. McGonagall says that Voldemort turned up in Godric's Hollow "last night" and this is tonight, so we know that it has been about 24 hours since the deaths of Harry's parents. We are not told: - where Hagrid was with baby Harry for the last day or so - why Dumbledore doesn't mention the Black/Pettigrew showdown to McGonagall, especially when Sirius' name is mentioned by Hagrid, even saying he's going to bring the motorcycle back to him - who cast the spells that killed James and Lily More about this, including the way the Priori Incantatem spell order fits into the timeline, has been newly added to the Harry Potter Lexicon. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 22 06:22:22 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 06:22:22 -0000 Subject: HP as a play? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001022060933.008e5f60@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8su12u+cf41@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4376 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > Would Harry Potter work on the stage? I have a sudden vision of > Crookshanks, either as Dick Whittington's panto cat or as one the > cats-in-a-leotard from the musical "Cats!" That aside, I think it > would be fun. Surely someone, I think it was Scott, wanted to put HP on the stage back when we were in Yahoo! and thus commenced a thread in which you mentioned the Titanic musical and the theme party and someone said to never go see a musical that contains cats or children..... From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sun Oct 22 09:28:05 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 09:28:05 -0000 Subject: HP as a play? In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001022060933.008e5f60@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8subv5+i6ea@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4377 I heard on the news a few weeks back that a school somewhere in England had got permission to do a HP Play, which the drama teacher had written based on SS/PS. Unfortunately no details were given, but it was indicated that they would be playing Quidditch! ********************** Nearly Headless Nick ********************** From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Oct 22 10:44:34 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:44:34 +0100 Subject: Chat, 36 and movie update Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4378 Anake wrote: "Even though I've been on this list for almost a month, I'm going to ask a...shudder..newbie question: Did I remember correctly that when you chat you mostly chat on CheetaChat? And if so, what is the chatroom called? I ask this because I had deleted CheetaChat awhile ago and if you do meet on there (even though it is a Yahoo chat client) I would download it again because I like CC better than Yahoo chat." We, as a group, were originally the Yahoo Club harrypotterforgrownups (http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups) and even though we have migrated over to E-groups we have kept the chat on Yahoo as we prefer its facilities and can use Cheeta over there. The Chat kicks off at around 7 pm (BST). Amanda wrote: "Musta been all those 3-ish numbers in 36 that got me thinking cubed." Would have had this answer quicker, but am suffering from a bad cold and very sore throat and have spent far too long trying to find them filming. 36 = 3 cubed in base 7 I bet you all feel so much better for knowing that Oxford is even more chaotic and busy than yesterday but I have been unable to find evidence that we actually have any of the actors here. They must be hiding them away somewhere. I will go and have another look later and try to get some photos, but I doubt I will be able to get any closer than Nick got last night. Simon (another post on its way soon - I am taking quite a long time to clear my backlog of messages) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Oct 22 11:01:29 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:01:29 +0100 Subject: life expectancy, romance, that fatefull night, scabbers Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4379 Neil wrote: "This raises another point, about life expectancy: Do witches/wizards just live longer or is their life cycle different? As a Muggle-born witch will Hermione develop differently to the pure-blood or half blood witches in her year? Are the children grouped by physical age or chronological age? If it's the latter, won't most of Hermione's classmates be due for puberty at around 20, instead of 13/14?" I would guess that puberty still happens at roughly the same age. Even though human life expectancy has risen quite sharply over the last 100 years the age that kids go through puberty has remained fairly static. I would guess that it is the magical medical care that increases life expectancy. Joywitch wrote: "These are not romances, the books will end when they are all only 17 years old, and I doubt there will be any time for complicated romantic pairing and unpairing and all the related angst (thank goodness). So stop with the Hermione and Harry shipping, already. (Like this is really going to stop it. Sigh. )" Penny replied: "Uh, no, it won't stop it because it's one of your list-mom's favorite topics. And, she's 100% Harry & Hermione shipper. So sorry if this offends you. Delete the shippy ones if you don't want to read them. But, I consider the debates ON-topic. I do agree that the books will end before their ultimate love-lives get resolved. This makes it nice -- I'll just imagine that it all happens just like in PoU. :--)" Or maybe Hermione and Ron will get together in the next book and live happily ever after. Some of the teenage angst and hormonal stuff is even more difficult to cope with than the adult stuff. It also gives me chance to think of some even more bizarre pairings, and I have got to think of a very good pairing to top my Harry/Hedwig one! Steve wrote: "why Dumbledore doesn't mention the Black/Pettigrew showdown to McGonagall, especially when Sirius' name is mentioned by Hagrid, even saying he's going to bring the motorcycle back to him" There is the possibility that the showdown has not occurred by the time Dumbledore leaves to go to the Dursley's. At this stage he may suspect that Sirius is guilty but is waiting for him to be caught before making any comments. Especially if he thinks saying something will cause Hagrid to go off and beat Sirius up. Amanda wrote: "1. Me: even if Scabbers were at Hogwarts with Percy, too, and thus within the time that Fred and George were using the Map, they'd have been unlikely to check their dormitory for lurking dangers. They were checking hallways and offices and such. They didn't have to check for people who might catch them sneaking around their own rooms." But there are times when Ron takes Scabbers with him, to lessons and so on. If Percy did the same, then when he was on patrol as a prefect he would have Scabbers with him and be more likely to be noticed. Simon From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sat Oct 21 21:51:18 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:51:18 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall References: <8sqvs3+4sic@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000001c03c1c$3e7b6940$698e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4380 ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 3:43 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall > However, if we were to talk about meeting her, I would use an > honorific, probably Ms. until I learned what her preference was. (I > am very excited about meeting Ms. Rowlings in person!) > She uses Miss and Mrs. in the books (is that right?) so perhaps she > prefers Mrs. What is her former husband's last name? (In the U.S., if > you're divorced and retain your former husband's last name, you may > still be addressed as Mrs. If you revert to your birth name, you > would probably be addressed as Ms. Women who never change their name > usually prefer Ms.) >From what I've heard about JKR's attitude to her ex, I very much doubt she'd be interested in keeping his name. Ms. Rowling is probably fine. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sat Oct 21 22:05:29 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:05:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question References: <003701c03b39$962d4de0$96997ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <000101c03c1c$3fc99420$698e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4381 ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Mitchell To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 9:24 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question > PS/SS Chapter 5 > ============== > > Hagrid: "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are a lot > o'duffers, but --" > > Harry: "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff" said Harry gloomily. > > Hagrid: "Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin," said Hagrid darkly. "There's not > a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You-Know-Who > was one." > But doesn't AD say in CoS that very few people connected Voldemort with TR? Doesn't Hagrid's apparent knowledge of Voldie's house contradict this? Or maybe Dumbledore told Hagrid that Voldie and Riddle are the same. Plus Hagrid did know Riddle at school, so maybe he put two and two together himself. > ============== > > >One more question: Isn't it also stated somewhere that Molly Weasley > has brown hair, and that Arthur has the red hair from which all the > kids get their's? I was sure of this too, but people keep mentioning > Molly's red hair... > > > "Harry swung round. The speaker was a plump woman who was talking to four > boys, all with flaming red hair. Each of them was pushing a trunk like > Harry's in front of him -- and they had an owl." > > Can't find anything about Mrs Weasley's hair. > > But did turn up something interesting: > "She was a very pretty woman. She had dark red hair and her eyes -- her eyes > are just like mine, Harry thought, edging a little closer to the glass." > Could Harry's mum have been a Weasley before being a Potter? Well, no, not really, Lily was Muggle-born. The Weasleys are a pure-blood wizard family. Nice idea though, fanfic writers may want to pick up on it. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sat Oct 21 22:10:19 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:10:19 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) References: <8ss1io+koud@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000401c03c1c$4111a480$698e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4382 ----- Original Message ----- From: heidi tandy To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 1:18 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) > I just (electronically) scanned through both CoS and PoU, I mean PoA, > for the word "Hufflepuff" and it's never stated absolutely that > Hagrid > was in that house - although I also thought he was, based on that > intemation in his conversation with Harry & the fact that he is > patient, loyal & unafraid of toil - but his bravery must be the > strongest feature =- good to know! I never really thought Hagrid would be anything other than Gryffindor, to be honest. Let's face it, dragons are his favourite animal, he calls big, vicious three-headed dogs "Fluffy", and he breeds Blast Ended Skrewts. These are not the actions of a man easily frightened. Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sat Oct 21 22:14:04 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:14:04 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore an animagus? References: <47.260ee14.2722f9e0@aol.com> Message-ID: <000501c03c1c$424f0680$698e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4383 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore an animagus? > In a message dated 10/21/2000 9:47:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > neilward at dircon.co.uk writes: > > > why didn't Hermione see his name listed as one of > > the registered Animagi? > > Well, did Hermione ever really check the list? That is true, though, his name > would have stood out completely. I find that the more I think about > Dumbledore, the more I sort of worry that he isn't all that he appears to be. > It bothers me that I can't know for sure. One possible reason: isn't Dumbledore 150 years old? If so, he might not be listed in this century's list, not if he obtained registration in the 19th century. Hermione, not being aware of the long life expectancy of wizards, and only looking for McGonagall in any case, would not have thought to look at last century's Animagi, and thus missed Dumbledore completely. Just a thought. Jinx From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 22 12:30:10 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 08:30:10 -0400 Subject: larry king quote References: <8q3mvl+7rvm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F2DDD2.87EF7F5F@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4384 KING: Did you think it would do as well with adults? ROWLING: No. In all honesty, I didn't think it would do this well with anyone. I thought I was writing quite an obscure book that if it ever got published would maybe have a handful of devotees because I thought -- it is kind of a book for obsessives. well, DUH. Just look at *us* : ) I guess this means that to some extent, she could have expected that we would be all "how many students & why doesn;t that match with the numbers of brooms" and "how old were james & lily when Harry was born?" and "why didn't anyone else see peter on the marauder's map" and "gleam, gleam. gleam!" From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 22 12:56:22 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 07:56:22 -0500 Subject: Today Show Transcript References: <8stmsk+hs28@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F2E3F6.A5B25FBF@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4385 Hi -- Susan McGee wrote: > THANK YOU for posting this. > > JKR does NOT say that the next title will be HP and the Order of the > Phoenix...She says that she's choosing between two titles and that is > ONE of them! I know! I told everyone this on Friday. She *was,* however, more definitive about the title later that day in the B&N chat. This may be why people are assuming that OP is the likely title. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 13:02:23 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 06:02:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 203 Message-ID: <20001022130223.23726.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4386 > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who > have read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any > night fears due to the books? How have you handled them? >I don't have any children, but I remember that when I was a child, << Same as me. When I was around nine, I read Stephen King's Cujo. Back then (and now, at age 18) I have a huge imagination and get scared over EVERYTHING (I'm scared of the hallway outside of my room for crying out loud)! Well, I had those "monsters in the closet" thoughts like Tad had in the book, and I would imagine Cujo lurking in the dark while I ran to my bed. Then don't get me started on "Psycho" and showers, or "The Exorcist" and beds! From, Anake ===== ========== Anthony Freemont (age 6): He shouldn't have thought those bad thoughts. That's why I made him go on fire! --It's a Good Life (Twilight Zone) ==== YAHOO! MESSANGER: neptune_1984 ICQ: 37150285 Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) ==== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 22 13:07:01 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 22 Oct 2000 06:07:01 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JKR on CNN Transcript Message-ID: <20001022130701.6054.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4387 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 22 13:19:05 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 08:19:05 -0500 Subject: Godric's Hollow References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4388 Hi -- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > We don't know Hagrid's route from Godric's Hollow to Privet Drive in > the slightest, and we can deduce absolutely nothing about the > location of Godric's Hollow from the books. The mention of Harry > falling asleep over Bristol tells us nothing. Godric's Hollow could > be anywhere, and not just in England. This *is* all true enough Steve, but the discussions over at Yahoo (probably before you joined) had to do with figuring out whether any of the towns/villages in the UK had a name that might be similar to Godric's Hollow that might give some indication of location. We had, with Nick's prompting, just learned that Ottery St. Catchpole is quite similar to Ottery St. Marie. Ottery St. Marie is also just east of Exeter, where Jo attended university. Just west of Exeter, is a village called Chudleigh (close, of course, to the "Chudley" Cannons, Ron's favorite Quidditch team). We deduced from these clues that the Burrow was likely located in the Exeter vicinity. This location has since been found to be inconsistent (surprise!) with the taxi rides from the Burrow into King's Cross Station in GoF. I think it's just a goof -- they should have taken BritRail into King's Cross rather than taxis. The other evidence is overwhelming that the Burrow is supposed to be in the Exeter vicinity. So, back to the origination of the Godric's Hollow speculation. The only thing we found that was close was a village in far eastern Wales called Godre'r-graig. There might well be another village that ends in "Hollow" that would be closer, although I did line-by-line search my atlas for any villages that began with the letter "G" and ended in the word "Hollow." Nothing. Noone found an online method of searching effectively at that time. So, those of us who were participating in this discussion (mainly me and Nick as I recall) looked at Godre'r-graig with some interest. It does seem that if one flew from that village toward Surrey, one would be forced to fly over Bristol. Almost certainly if one is flying to Surrey from somewhere & flies over Bristol, the originating location is most likely in Wales. If you were coming from say, Leeds, to Surrey, you wouldn't divert west to fly over Bristol. If not Wales, then I think it would need to be Ireland to make any sense. IMO anyway. > Hagrid almost certainly didn't go directly from Godric's Hollow to > Privet Drive, since it took him MOST OF A DAY to get there (or more > likely, he went somewhere else first). Or, he hung out in Godric's Hollow for a day, watching to see what all happened so he could report back to Dumbledore. In any case, I still maintain that flying *over* Bristol to Surrey requires that the originating location be west/northwest of Bristol -- that is, Wales, Ireland or perhaps the Hebrides Islands off to the far northwest of the UK. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From s_ings at yahoo.com Sun Oct 22 13:38:17 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 06:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise/Dictionary of Imaginary Places Message-ID: <20001022133817.16836.qmail@web221.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4389 --- heidi wrote: Scott wrote: > > What is a Deptartment 56 Secret Box? I collect > Dept. 56 but I'm not sure > > of the secret box. I thought that they were > coming out w/ the small > > people and village accessories made out of > porcelin. Does anyone > > else collect Dept. 56? If so do you have any more > info? > > They have them up on their website at > http://www.department56.com - they're > little boxes - Harry on his nimbus, hagrid, hedwig, > a snitch, "hermione the > bookworm" and harry with the sorting hat on - and > they purportedly have > "secrets" inside. > > The store my daughter works at carries these, though they only have the first one (the rest aren't due to arrive until Nov. 3). They contain small metal charms and there are letters printed on the top of the box. The store only has the one of Hagrid (him, Harry and the goblin in the cart at Gringotts). The top of the box has the letters 'r' and 'e' and what could be taken as either a comma or an apostrophe. The charm is a small money bag. They range in price from $19.50 (for the Golden Snitch)to $41.50 - Canadian dollars. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From warmsley at btinternet.com Sun Oct 22 14:19:48 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:19:48 +0100 Subject: Grindelwald Message-ID: <01c03c33$22b59ca0$901d073e@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 4390 I was reading Herman Hesse's Gertrude (which is excellent), when the principal character goes off on holiday around Western Europe with his mother... after visiting Constance, Zurich, Interlaken, they wind up in... Grindelwald, which, if I'm not mistaken, is the name of the dark wizard defeated by Dumbledore in 1945. Anyone able to shed any light? Jeremy From warmsley at btinternet.com Sun Oct 22 14:28:39 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:28:39 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] life expectancy, romance, that fatefull night, scabbers Message-ID: <01c03c34$5ec35740$901d073e@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 4391 >I would guess that puberty still happens at roughly the same age. Even >though human life expectancy has risen quite sharply over the last 100 years >the age that kids go through puberty has remained fairly static. I would >guess that it is the magical medical care that increases life expectancy. > Actually, there was a thing about this on TV the other day. Apparently it's going *down*. Kids now go through puberty 2 years earlier than their grandparents... Jeremy From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Oct 22 14:41:49 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:41:49 -0000 Subject: Grindelwald In-Reply-To: <01c03c33$22b59ca0$901d073e@warmsley> Message-ID: <8suubd+590t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4392 Grindelwald is a major tourist destination for skiiing in Switzerland. Hesse himself lived there. JKR might have been aware of this, or it could have been an independent coinage (like "Muggles"). --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Warmsley" wrote: > I was reading Herman Hesse's Gertrude (which is excellent), when > the principal character goes off on holiday around Western > Europe with his mother... after visiting Constance, Zurich, > Interlaken, they wind up in... Grindelwald, which, if I'm not > mistaken, is the name of the dark wizard defeated by Dumbledore > in 1945. Anyone able to shed any light? > > Jeremy From renojr at aol.com Sun Oct 22 15:35:41 2000 From: renojr at aol.com (renojr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:35:41 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Charity (Long) Message-ID: <47.2683a9e.2724634d@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4393 I'm rather new to this group and I'm pretty much a lurker, but I've come to realize that I'm in the company of some very fine writers! Thank you all so much for the great reads I get from all your postings. Peg, your essay about the 7 heavenly virtues was heavenly itself! Thanks again, Reno From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Sun Oct 22 20:03:07 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:03:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4394 On 22.10.2000 at 08:19:05 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >We deduced from these clues that the >Burrow >was likely located in the Exeter vicinity. This location has since >been >found to be inconsistent (surprise!) with the taxi rides from the >Burrow >into King's Cross Station in GoF. I think it's just a goof -- they >should have taken BritRail into King's Cross rather than taxis. The >other evidence is overwhelming that the Burrow is supposed to be in >the >Exeter vicinity. I may not remember this correctly, but weren't the cars sent by the Ministry because the authorities were worried about Harry's safety after what happened at the Quidditch World Cup? Harry and the Weasleys would have been quite vulnerable on a public train, and perhaps some supporter of Voldemort wanted to show that the Ministry wasn't as much in control as they would have liked to be. Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 22 19:05:23 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:05:23 -0500 Subject: Items of interest from my Alan Rickman newsletter Message-ID: <39F33A73.D0CFADB3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4395 I lifted this information from my weekly Alan Rickman e-newsletter. In the interests of copyright and all that, I got official permission (precedes lifted material). --Amanda /begin permission note/ Hi Amanda Sure you can lift the article - just credit the source (i.e. my newsletter - I'd like it if you gave the web address, http://www.cybamuse.com/movieThemes/actors/arickman), but would be happy if you at least credit the newsletter... I am not 100% sure about the source of the filming - it just came from someone who said 'it was straight from the horses mouth' - whether that is someone on the set or someone closer to AR, I dunno. But, it would have to be darn close to the truth as from following he filming schedule, they would be at about the point where the scenes at Hogwarts are all thats left to film! /begin quoted stuff/ 1. THE FILMING OF HARRY POTTER: AN UPDATE Breaking news is that an anonymous source has informed this newsletter that Alan Rickman has already commenced filming on Harry Potter and his first scene as Snape has been shot... You heard it first here! ----------- In other Harry Potter news... **Straight from the author herself, comes approval of Alan Rickman as Snape. In an interview to Sunspot.com, J.K. Rowlings comments on the brilliant cast that has been amassed for the first Harry Potter film: "Are you happy with the movie leads? 'Actually delighted. If you had asked me who was the dream casting for McGonagall and Hagrid I would have said Maggie Smith and Robbie Coltrane, and both of them are doing it. That's fantastic. Snape's there too - Alan Rickman.' " If you enjoyed the Harry Potter books, you will enjoy this article as J.K. Rowlings has quite a few revelations to impart on a range of things from which chapters are written, censorship, the movie, to thoughts on the upcoming books... You can read the full article at: http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150490214626 Rowlings was also on Larry King (CNN) and this little bit came out in their conversation: LK: "I ran into Mr. Rickman the other day, and he's in the movie..." JKR-- "Yes, he plays Snape, Good choice, actually..." (Thanks to Julia for that bit of news!) **Warner Brothers are planning a state of the art Harry Potter website... Through Variety magazine (18/10/00), WB has this to say: " Eventually, the current site will be replaced by a DNA-designed (company) Harry Potter mega-site that will, in the words of a Warner Bros. exec, "manage the brand throughout the movies and be the official source for all 'Harry Potter' information on the Internet." When speaking with Variety, Warner's Executive Vice President, Kevin Tsujihara said, "We want it to be a voice for all seven books. We want the site to bridge all the movies and live well beyond the films. We want to funnel a lot of 'Harry Potter' fans through this site." DNA is working with the filmmakers and author J.K. Rowling to design the site." This will be interesting - an official website that can keep up with the unofficial ones which are usually more up to date with news. However, The Lord of the Rings movie website has proved very successful, working with the fans, so we can hope Warner Brothers have adopted the same attitude...You can read more at: http://filmforce.ign.com/news/1545.html **The British newspaper, The Sun, carried story on the 17th October, claiming they had the first photos from the set (obviously, they haven't seen the vast library of photos on various Harry Potter and movie news websites!)You can read the article at: http://www.the-sun.co.uk/news/13094335 . However, the next day, The Sun had egg on their face when rival newspaper, The Mirror, claimed that these photos were of the doubles of the actors... You can read about this at: http://www.comingsoon.net/newsdisplay.shtml. **John Cleese has also joined the prestigious cast and will be playing the ghost, Nearly Headless Nick... Talks of discussion were released via EmpireOnline on 16th October, and confirmed by a Belfast News Letter on the 18th October (Thanks to Georgiana for the Belfast confirmation). DISCLAIMER: The items mentioned in this newsletter are collected from various sources on the web and other media. Every endeavor is made to verify rumors, but the author of the newsletter cannot be held responsible for rumors which turn out to be false. The Alan Rickman Newsletter is in no way connected to Alan Rickman or his agents, therefore the opinions and comments presented represent those of the respective author(s) only, and no harm is intended. Cybamuse Media Services owns the copyright to the Alan Rickman Newsletter and it is not to be re-produced on the web or in any other media format without prior consent from Cybamuse Media Services. If articles are quoted, the copyright for their content remains with the original authors. Cybamuse Media Services does not support any one online shop and all recommendations are not to be considered endorsed advertising. Please email RickmanFans at cybamuse.com for any comments or further information that you require. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Oct 22 19:30:44 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:30:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F34064.10D07DFC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4396 Hi -- Christina Gross wrote: > I may not remember this correctly, but weren't the cars sent by the > Ministry because the authorities were worried about Harry's safety > after what happened at the Quidditch World Cup? Actually, Molly Weasley ordered muggle taxis because the Ministry couldn't spare any cars to send for them. > Harry and the Weasleys would have been quite vulnerable on a public > train, They would have been I suppose, but I don't guess any of them knew that at the time really. Or, they didn't know that there was any more danger to Harry than there ever is anyway. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Sun Oct 22 19:36:12 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:36:12 -0000 Subject: Titles, was Re: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall In-Reply-To: <000001c03c1c$3e7b6940$698e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8svfjc+qk3u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4397 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Susan McGee > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 3:43 AM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall > > > > However, if we were to talk about meeting her, I would use an > > honorific, probably Ms. until I learned what her preference was. (I > > am very excited about meeting Ms. Rowlings in person!) > > She uses Miss and Mrs. in the books (is that right?) so perhaps she > > prefers Mrs. What is her former husband's last name? (In the U.S., if > > you're divorced and retain your former husband's last name, you may > > still be addressed as Mrs. If you revert to your birth name, you > > would probably be addressed as Ms. Women who never change their name > > usually prefer Ms.) > > From what I've heard about JKR's attitude to her ex, I very much doubt she'd > be interested in keeping his name. Ms. Rowling is probably fine. > Ms. Rowling is probably what she goes by, but doesnt someone as wonderful and creative and whom we all worship deserve an even better title? The Incredibly Wonderful Rowling? The Awesome Rowling? She- Who-Must-Always-Be-Named Rowling? The Divine Ms. R? (oh no, wait, Bette Middler could sue if we use that one) The Magical Rowling? She is a very unassuming woman, though, so I doubt she would use any title bestowed upon her, however well-deserved the bestowal. And let me take this opportunity to restate a theory which, last time I stated it, fell like a lead balloon. As jinx pointed out, from what weve heard about JKR's attitude to her ex, it is doubtful she'd be interested in keeping his name. I think that she really thinks he is so much of a jerk that she based Gilderoy Lockhart on him. After all, she has said that Lockhart is the one character she consciously based on someone she knows. And while public bashing of people you dont happen to like is generally fairly socially unacceptable, public bashing of your ex is more acceptable, and in this case it is pretty well-disguised. Now I realize that the evidence to support my theory is flimsy, but so is the evidence to support most of our theories. After all, we thought Hagrid was in Hufflepuff. Some of us even think Harry will fall in love with an owl! Worse, some of us insist that Harry will fall in love with Hermione! -- Joywitch, who really only cares about the Subway Series right now but the games not on for 4 more hours. LETS GO METS!!!!!! From joym999 at aol.com Sun Oct 22 19:45:10 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:45:10 -0000 Subject: scary things and kids In-Reply-To: <20001022130223.23726.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8svg46+9kus@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4398 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Anake wrote: > > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who > > have read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any > > night fears due to the books? How have you handled them? > > >I don't have any children, but I remember that when I was a child, << > > Same as me. When I was around nine, I read Stephen King's Cujo. Back then (and now, > at age 18) I have a huge imagination and get scared over EVERYTHING (I'm scared of > the hallway outside of my room for crying out loud)! Well, I had those "monsters in > the closet" thoughts like Tad had in the book, and I would imagine Cujo lurking in > the dark while I ran to my bed. Then don't get me started on "Psycho" and showers, > or "The Exorcist" and beds! Yeh, I would be careful about scary books and movies if I had kids. When I was about 6 years old, some idiot took me to see the Hitchcock movie The Birds. I had to be taken outside in the middle of the movie. It wasnt until I was in my 20s that I realized why birds always made me feel nervous. I have pretty much gotten over it, although to this day I am appalled when I see a photo of someone standing inside a big flock of them feeding them breadcrumbs. -- Joywitch, who does not have any pet birds and instead has 2 cats who keep the little flying maniacs away From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Sun Oct 22 19:55:15 2000 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:55:15 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Night fears from Harry Potter References: <39F24DDE.9A0C0A15@ibm.net> Message-ID: <39F34623.43427CDA@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4399 Peg Kerr wrote: > I started reading the HP books, like so many of us did, by reading them > to my children, specifically my oldest daughter Fiona, now 7. I've been reading the books to my 7 year old also. She's enjoyed them thoroughly. They have provided a great opportunity to improve her critical reading skills. > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who have > read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any night fears > due to the books? How have you handled them? > So far we've not had nightmares-- and we do our reading right before bed, but we have had some very heavy subject matter--and subsequent fears--come up. Like Harry's parents being killed. How lonely Harry must be. How could it be possible that a grown-up (Voldemort) would want to hurt a boy. We've handled them by talking about them exhaustively--not only in the context of the books and the stories but also by talking about ourselves and our family and safety issues in the community. We're up to the second Task in GoF and she's very curious to read ahead to find out who dies--like you, I warned her that this book is sadder and scarier than the others, but I did not tell her who died. I find that 7 year olds have very active imaginations and they are especially prone to fears and anxiety. It may be because they are finally able to project hypothetical situations onto their own lives (if this can happen in a book or a movie, it could happen to me). I think you are doing the right things for your daughter and giving her the support she needs to climb up this particular developmental step. drpam From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 22 20:28:57 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:28:57 -0000 Subject: Title of 5, Hagrid's House, another question In-Reply-To: <8stjrk+p3gd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8svim9+7d4k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4400 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > I don't know where YOU got the idea that Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, > Kelley, but I know where *I* got it! In the Scholastic quiz (the one > where you can't miss an answer and then challenge someone else-- am I > remembering right?) THEY had a question about which house Hagrid > (JKR's favorite character, let us remember, and maybe he WILL find > someone who loves magical creatures), and to win you had to answer > Hufflepuff. > > Susan Susan-- Aha! I bet that's it. I did go to the Schol. site, and did take the quiz, but that was such a long time ago, I never even thought about it. I was remembering the passage that Nick and Scott posted for me, but I just kept thinking I had seen it somewhere ~very~ clearly stated that he was in Huff. That had to be it! I do feel better now. :o] And, while we're on the subject: Thanks, Heidi, for the effort to help find that for me. Very appreciated. And, to Joywitch, I never even noticed that about the canary yellow...circus tent(?) ;-) he was knitting. That doesn't seem farfetched to me, it seems like a great 'find'. Good catch! And, Jinx, it hadn't occurred to me that Hagrid was 'brave' in his love for those animals; he never seemed afraid of them, and then worked with them anyway--he just loves them. This doesn't sound like I'm being very clear, but I will press on-- Hagrid doesn't seem aware of these creatures being dangerous, to him they're just big sweet animals, like giant puppies and bunnies. Not realizing danger doesn't seem brave to me, just naive... huh? what? Kelley From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 22 20:41:45 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:41:45 -0000 Subject: Molly Weasley's (Red?) Hair In-Reply-To: <13107252.972153124275.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <8svje9+280q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4401 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Malabud wrote: > Nick and Kelley have been discussing back and forth the color of Molly > Weasley's hair, and I thought I'd add my thoughts. > > The gene for red hair must come from both parents in order for the children > to have red hair. Of course, it is not necessary for Mrs. Weasley to have > red hair to pass on the gene. Considering that *all* the Weasley children > have "flaming red hair", it is highly unlikely that she does not have red > hair herself. > > I don't own a copy of PoA (blasphemy, I know), so I can't quote directly, > but isn't there a passage in the opening chapters about how all the Weasleys > (including the parents) have red hair? Harry's looking at the cover photo on > the Daily Prophet of all the Weasley's in Egypt. The photo is in black and > white, but Harry knows they all have red hair. Can someone help with this > passage? > > Malabud Yes, you're right, I believe Amanda has posted it. I guess that line "...all with flaming red hair" is meant to describe all the Weasleys, not just the kids. I've been pondering this, and am wondering, did someone, perhaps here or on hpanonymous, or Hogwarts Adult School, maybe just mention that they'd always pictured Molly with brown hair, and Arthur with the red (where all the kids got it from)? I'm thinking that maybe I read this in a post, and it was tucked away in my brain, and has become lodged there. It's been there so long, I just thought it was 'true.' That's probably what happened. Still seems a bit odd that Arthur and Molly ~both~ had the flaming hair, fell in love, married, etc.... Oh, well, whatever. Thanks all, Kelley From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Oct 22 20:53:26 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:53:26 -0000 Subject: Grindelwald In-Reply-To: <8suubd+590t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8svk46+m6ml@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4402 Here's another thought: "Grendel" was a monster persecuted by Beowulf (unjustly, according to modern author John C. Gardner -- see the book cover in Files / Book Covers and Graphics / Graphics / grendel.jpg). Perhaps Rowling is alluding to the old Grendel legend in the name "Grindelwald." BTW, I highly recommend "Grendel" to this audience. Gardner wrote a handful of literate and clever novels in his too-short life. -Jim Flanagan > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Warmsley" wrote: > > I was reading Herman Hesse's Gertrude (which is excellent), when > > the principal character goes off on holiday around Western > > Europe with his mother... after visiting Constance, Zurich, > > Interlaken, they wind up in... Grindelwald, which, if I'm not > > mistaken, is the name of the dark wizard defeated by Dumbledore > > in 1945. Anyone able to shed any light? > > > > Jeremy From drmm at fuuko.com Sun Oct 22 21:05:40 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:05:40 -0500 Subject: scariest scene Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001022160105.00a96c30@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4403 Peg's comment about her daughter having nightmares has got me thinking. . . . What do you think the scariest scene in the books so far is? In my world, the scene in PS/SS where Quirrel is drinking the Unicorn blood bothers me every time I read it. Nothing in any of the other books really bothered me. Even Voldemort's return and the previous deaths in GoF didn't disturb me at all. But that Unicorn scene gets me every time . . . Hum, on second thought . . . the giant spiders in CoS bother me too . . . but that's because I *hate* spiders. DrMM *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com Most recent anime: Maho Tsukia Tai From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Oct 22 21:13:56 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 22 Oct 2000 21:13:56 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972249236.84324@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4404 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Chat Name Index Uploaded by : gypsycaine at yahoo.com Description : for the club chats You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Chat+Name+Index To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, gypsycaine at yahoo.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 22 21:32:51 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:32:51 -0000 Subject: Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets? In-Reply-To: <39F1F5D8.6A9F6B41@texas.net> Message-ID: <8svme3+tlc8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4405 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Yeah, but I haven't heard anyone positing a theory as to how the defeated> Voldemort lurking someplace obtained information from a re- animated memory> committed to a separate object (the diary) long years ago and thinking and> acting on its own via life-energy obtained in the present day. The diary> entity clearly knew nothing of Voldemort's existence or actions past his own> sixteenth year, and enough had happened up to that point that he thought the> memory should be preserved. > > I've put my finger on it; what bothers me about book 2. It's> > that "interlude" feeling, sort of. The action must be seen so we'll know> > certain things and understand certain relationships, but this is the only> > book of the four that feels at all contrived as a vehicle for these> > revelations more than an entity that needed to be written. > For Voldemort-of-the-forest to have learned what saved Harry in> their confrontation from Tom-o-the-diary, there *must* have been some sort> of communication, and I don't see how. Tom didn't learn what he wanted to> know until that confrontation scene in the Chamber, and he "died" shortly> thereafter when Harry put the fang through the diary. The animating energy> he'd stolen from Ginny was returned, and the spell which caused him to> "live" in the pages was destroyed. If there were some sort of psychic> connection between Tom and Voldemort, I don't think Voldemort would have> wasted any time having Tom or Ginny start contacting Death Eaters to have> someone come and GET him already! > > > --Amanda Everything you say here, Amanda, sounds accurate, so I can't think what may have been the point of book 2. I never delved that deeply into the whys and hows of CoS to see that from the Vold/Harry angle it doesn't really move the story along, that it was just another adventure. Seems it was nothing more than Lucius being ticked off at Arthur, then attempting to get him at least fired, if not out of the way completely. That would be the point of him giving the diary to Ginny, wouldn't it? Did he know what would happen, how the diary worked? Apparently he did. When reading GoF, as you go through the story and learn Vold wanted Harry's blood specifically, the gleam in Dumble's eye, Dumble saying Vold's overcome that barrier or whatever, my mind went to: okay, Vold overcame that protection, how did he know to do this? from that part in CoS when he learned that it was Lily's love/protection that saved Harry from him the first time. That's it. I never gave it any more thought. Book 2 was just another instance of Vold trying to remove his competition, yes? Albeit, not the Vold of today, but still Vold just the same. This would be a good question for her, if we ever get another opportunity... Kelley From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 22 21:40:21 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:40:21 -0000 Subject: Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8svms5+k73d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4406 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christina Gross wrote: > I may not remember this correctly, but weren't the cars sent by the > Ministry because the authorities were worried about Harry's safety > after what happened at the Quidditch World Cup? Cars were sent by the Ministry to take Harry and the Weaselys to school at the beginning of PoA in order to protect Harry from escaped convice Sirius Black. In GoF, "Mrs Weasley had braved the telephone in the village Post Office to order three ordinary Muggle taxis to take them into London." They couldn't have got from the Burrow to the Ottery St. Catchpole train station without taxis anyway. Mrs Weasley probably knows next to nothing about Muggle taxis, Muggle trains, and how much Muggle money is worth, so probably she figured that since she had to deal with taxis anyway, just take them all the way to King's Cross and not have to deal with Muggle trains as well. From vderark at bccs.org Sun Oct 22 21:50:39 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:50:39 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow/what happened (long) In-Reply-To: <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8svnff+3l4t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4407 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > > We don't know Hagrid's route from Godric's Hollow to Privet Drive in > > the slightest, and we can deduce absolutely nothing about the > > location of Godric's Hollow from the books. The mention of Harry > > falling asleep over Bristol tells us nothing. Godric's Hollow could > > be anywhere, and not just in England. > > This *is* all true enough Steve, but the discussions over at Yahoo > (probably before you joined) had to do with figuring out whether any of > the towns/villages in the UK had a name that might be similar to > Godric's Hollow that might give some indication of location Ah, I understand the direction of your logic. But IMHO Godric's Hollow, unlike Ottery St. Catchpole, got it's name not from an actual place name but from JKR's wish to tie it in with the name of Godric Gryffindor. I think Godric's Hollow is a magical place associated with the great wizard Gryffindor where the Potters were working for the Department of Mysteries on some great form of magic that would be used to defeat Voldemort. No one knew what they were actually doing, probably not even Dumbledore knew the details, but it was going to be the miracle spell or defense that was going to win the war. They needed time to finish the defense, and it somehow involved Harry. Voldemort had gotten wind of their plans and knew it was essential that he destroy the boy. When he learned of the Potter's location, he hurried there. After attacking James and Lily and wounding but not killing them (perhaps because the defense did in fact block the Avada Kadavra curse to some extent), he turned his wand on Harry. But the combination of the defense cooked up by James and Lily and the deep magic of his mother's sacrificial attempt to save him was enough to blast the curse back on Voldemort and he was nearly killed. At this point he fled, leaving his wand behind him, soince he couldn't hold it in noncorporeal form. At this point, the sequence of spells revealed by the Priori Incantatem hasn't begun. If it had, one of the spells we see regurgitated would have been the one that rebounded and almost destroyed Voldemort. Therefore someone else must have taken up the wand and finished the job, killing first Lily and then James. I am betting that that someone was Crouch, although it could have been another Death Eater who accompanied Voldemort that night. Hagrid didn't stick around. He said he got out before the Muggles started swarming around, and frankly, can you imagine him trying to be inconspicuous? My guess is that Godric's Hollow isn't a village, because if there were Muggles nearby, they would have been swarming almost instantly in typical Muggle rubber-necking fashion. Godric's Hollow is probably a magic place, deep in a forest or on a moor, far away from Muggle civilization. At any rate, Sirius also turned up at that point, and in order to allow Hagrid to travel more quickly with Harry, he lent him his motorcycle. He could apparate anyway and would use other means to track down Pettigrew. In my opinion, Hagrid met Dumbledore with Harry that night and they spent the day 1 Nov working out the details of the plan for the defense of Harry as he grew up, knowing that he held in his body/mind/soul/psyche/something a record of the defense that his parents had been developing. They must now wait for him to mature for him to fill the role planned for him, since no one knows what that defense is: the only record of it is in Harry (the eyes? the scar?). In the meantime, he would certainly be a target, and Voldemort might still return one day. So they developed a plan involving Arabella Figg, the Dursleys, and probably others who would watch over him and guard him. Dumbledore probably cast some deep family-related magical guard spells which are why Harry now has to stay at the Dursleys. When the plan was in place, Dumbledore apparated to Privet Drive, met McGonagall, and chatted for a while while Hagrid came along on the motorcycle. After all, neither Harry nor Hagrid would be able to apparate, so some other form of magical transport would be needed, and the Knight Bus would certainly not be appropriate for this kind if special situation. (Boom! Crash! And the Dursley's house jumps across the road to avoid the violet triple-decker! The baby flies out of Hagrid's grasp and bounces off Ernie Prang's head...) And somewhere in London, more or less at the same time, Sirius Black meets up with Pettigrew, so no one on Privet Drive that night knew anything about it yet... Okay, how's that for speculation? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 22 21:57:20 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:57:20 -0000 Subject: Continuity Question In-Reply-To: <4e.c7e1598.2723a890@aol.com> Message-ID: <8svns0+p6tv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4408 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, HarryPotterJrs at a... wrote: > Forgive me if this has been discussed. I brought it up before, but either no > one commented, or I missed it. > > In the end of GoF, Voldemorts wand extracted the following people: Diggory, > old man, Bertha Jorkins, the dad, then the mom. But the wand is supposed to > extract the 'spirits' of who Voldemort killed, backwords. This would mean he > killed his mom first, then went after the dad. But didn't he kill the dad > first, go after Harry, and his mom got in the middle, so he had to kill her > to get to Harry? Maybe I have this all wrong, but its bugging me. > > I read the first 3 books to the family from the library, and have them on > order, thus we only own the last book right now, so I can't check out all the > facts. Thanks for the help! > ~shahara in WI Shahara-- Please don't think you're being ignored; this topic was brought up just days after the release of GoF, and has been discussed ad infinitum by the group. You can find some discussion of it on this site by searching for "Priori Incantatem." This will not bring up all the discussion, by any means, but it is some. It was also discussed when the group was still on yahoo, but you can find those posts in the HPfG's archive site. There is a darling group of folks diligently working on creating a list of FAQs for this group. A daunting task, they've been scouring ~all~ the posts to create concise answers and info based on the many recurring threads of discussion. As you might imagine, this is quite time-consuming, so just hang in there, you'll soon be able to get the info. In the meantime, you may want to check out Steve's Lexicon site; lots of great info there. Here's the URL: http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ Kelley From vderark at bccs.org Sun Oct 22 22:02:25 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:02:25 -0000 Subject: Molly Weasley's (Red?) Hair In-Reply-To: <8svje9+280q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8svo5h+n5in@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4409 > there so long, I just thought it was 'true.' That's probably what > happened. Still seems a bit odd that Arthur and Molly ~both~ had the > flaming hair, fell in love, married, etc I get the impression that JKR treats red hair and green eyes as sort of a quintessential magic combination. Look how so many of the really special folks have red hair, Dumbledore as an obvious example. And the eyes, the green eyes? We all know that JKR has mentioned that the eyes are important, and Ginny does have the green eyes as well (can't remember off the top of my head if it ever tells us the color of the other kids' eyes). Dumbledore's eyes are blue, however. While we're on the subject of color, ever notice how people's faces or parts of their faces change color a lot as an indication of emotion? Interesting literary device. That makes Snape's sallow skin all the more notable, not that I'm taking sides in the Snape-as- vampire thread... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From joym999 at aol.com Sun Oct 22 22:25:46 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:25:46 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow/what happened (long) In-Reply-To: <8svnff+3l4t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8svpha+3bil@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4410 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: [snip] > In my opinion, Hagrid met Dumbledore with Harry that night and they > spent the day 1 Nov working out the details of the plan for the > defense of Harry as he grew up, knowing that he held in his > body/mind/soul/psyche/something a record of the defense that his > parents had been developing. They must now wait for him to mature for > him to fill the role planned for him, since no one knows what that > defense is: the only record of it is in Harry (the eyes? the scar?). > In the meantime, he would certainly be a target, and Voldemort might > still return one day. So they developed a plan involving Arabella > Figg, the Dursleys, and probably others who would watch over him and > guard him. Dumbledore probably cast some deep family-related magical > guard spells which are why Harry now has to stay at the Dursleys. > > When the plan was in place, Dumbledore apparated to Privet Drive, met > McGonagall, and chatted for a while while Hagrid came along on the > motorcycle. After all, neither Harry nor Hagrid would be able to > apparate, so some other form of magical transport would be needed, > and the Knight Bus would certainly not be appropriate for this kind > if special situation. (Boom! Crash! And the Dursley's house jumps > across the road to avoid the violet triple-decker! The baby flies out > of Hagrid's grasp and bounces off Ernie Prang's head...) > > Okay, how's that for speculation? Excellent, excellent, Steve. I have never been able to figure out that missing 24 hour period stuff. Thanks for clearing that up! -- Joywitch From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Oct 22 22:31:47 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:31:47 -0000 Subject: scariest scene In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001022160105.00a96c30@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8svpsj+q1uv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4411 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > Peg's comment about her daughter having nightmares has got me thinking. . . . > > What do you think the scariest scene in the books so far is? > How about the entire scene with the basilisk? I am easily creeped out by snakes (which is why I *never* watch Steve Irwin and his Croc Files show on Animal Planet--he mucks about with snakes far too much for my taste). The very idea of a large snake wandering through the plumbing of Hogwarts gave me gooseflesh and I nearly jumped out of my skin when the nasty thing bit Harry. The graveyard scene with the big bad V and his DE's didn't frighten me half as much! Trina (who also was terrified by Disney's "Headless Horseman" and still hasn't seen "Sleepy Hollow" because of it.) From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Oct 22 22:57:19 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:57:19 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4412 In a message dated 10/20/2000 11:07:00 PM CST, catlady at wicca.net writes: << > I love all these suggested glosses on JKR's proposed title. The > more possible interpretations a title can have, in my experience, > the better. Here's another *possible*: a command given by a phoenix >> And here's another: what the phoenix told the waiter it would like to have for dinner. Sorry, feeling goofy this afternoon! Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From Ellimist15 at aol.com Sun Oct 22 23:12:46 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:12:46 EDT Subject: Mysteries of McGonagall Message-ID: <47.26977b6.2724ce6e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4413 Well, we *do* know that McGonagall had been teaching at Hogwarts at the time because during the PoA "Three Broomsticks" conversation, she recalls teaching Peter Pettigrew. That means that at the time of Lily and James' deaths, McGonagall must have been teaching for at least 3 years. 1981: The Potters die, McGonagall and Dumbledore have their brick wall conversation. 1980 (July): Harry is born. 1979 (October?): Harry is conceived before 1978? 78? 79?: Lily and James are married before 1977-9?: Marauders etc. graduate If McGonagall had taught Pettigrew at least a year, then she must have joined the staff before 1976-1978. Ellie Rosenthal http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ << Susan said: Hmmmm....after how many years? Remember Chapter 1 in PS/SS was 11 years before we first meet Harry. Do we know how many years McGonagall was a professor at Hogwarts? Maybe she WASN'T his deputy at that time? Maybe they didn't know each other too well. OR perhaps their relationship developed in 11 years, and so they sounded "different" in that conversation. Susan >> From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 22 23:24:26 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:24:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grindelwald References: <8svk46+m6ml@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F3772A.F6275C5F@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4414 Jim Flanagan wrote: > BTW, I highly recommend "Grendel" to this audience. Gardner wrote a > handful of literate and clever novels in his too-short life. > > -Jim Flanagan Not to mention a very interesting book of essays called _On Moral Fiction_ Peg who (in case you haven't noticed) has been writing a series of off-the-cuff essays about Harry Potter's moral development. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 22 23:37:06 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:37:06 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mysteries of McGonagall References: <47.26977b6.2724ce6e@aol.com> Message-ID: <39F37A22.4A245B4D@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4415 Ellimist15 at aol.com wrote: > > 1979 (October?): Harry is conceived November. According to Onhealth's due date calculator, November 8, 1979, if he was born on his due date. Unless he was born over a week late, it was November. Trust me on this. (although if he was born late, then he could've been concieved on Halloween, exactly 2 years before his parents died, which would be weird, but I wouldn't put it past JKR...) heidi (whose son's due date was July 27......) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 01:18:52 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:18:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Titles, was Re: Wizard popn./Snape/McGonagall References: <8svfjc+qk3u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F391FB.1C3C0771@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4416 Joywitch wrote: > -- Joywitch, who really only cares about the Subway Series right now > but the games not on for 4 more hours. LETS GO METS!!!!!! The what? Oh, yeah, the great contest as to whether New York or New York will win.... --Amanda from someplace far, far from New York (yawn) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 01:21:46 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:21:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] scary things and kids References: <8svg46+9kus@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F392AA.FF84B0B5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4417 Joywitch wrote: > Yeh, I would be careful about scary books and movies if I had kids. > When I was about 6 years old, some idiot took me to see the Hitchcock > movie The Birds. I had to be taken outside in the middle of the > movie. My dad let me watch The Blob when I was about 5 or 6, and also obligingly pointed out that it could indeed squeeze through air conditioner vents and under doors. I had a phobia about that one for years; wouldn't go to sleep facing away from the room, in case it came in to get me. In fact, I wouldn't even watch the movie again until after I was married. --Amanda, who advises Joywitch to be careful of mockingbirds in the spring (I've been dive-bombed before) From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 01:31:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:31:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to References: Message-ID: <39F394E7.5E4805A6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4418 The Phoenix was supposed to be Persian, was it not? Or native to someplace far to the East? JKR said book 5 would involve a new locale, so perhaps it's the homeland of the Phoenix (although it doesn't seem to be a unique creature in the Harryverse, they surely have a native land). Probably owning a phoenix isn't the most common thing around; Fawkes is the only one we've met. --Amanda, idly speculating From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 01:33:33 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:33:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grindelwald References: <8svk46+m6ml@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F3956D.A4550C06@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4419 Jim Flanagan wrote: > Here's another thought: "Grendel" was a monster persecuted by > Beowulf (unjustly, according to modern author John C. Gardner -- see > the book cover in Files / Book Covers and Graphics / Graphics / > grendel.jpg). Perhaps Rowling is alluding to the old Grendel legend > in the name "Grindelwald." Yeah, I'd made that association, and also thought she picked this name because it sounds so Germanic, and in context with the date of 1945, it makes a WWII parallel inescapable. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 01:36:05 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:36:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat, 36 and movie update References: Message-ID: <39F39605.FCBD3C5D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4420 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Amanda wrote: "Musta been all those 3-ish numbers in 36 that got me thinking > cubed." > > Would have had this answer quicker, but am suffering from a bad cold and > very sore throat and have spent far too long trying to find them filming. > 36 = 3 cubed in base 7 > I bet you all feel so much better for knowing that Yeah! That's it, that's what I meant. Of course. You didn't think I *meant* all that about actually making a *mistake,* did you? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 01:40:21 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:40:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers References: Message-ID: <39F39705.CF1BC0D1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4421 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Amanda wrote: "1. Me: even if Scabbers were at Hogwarts with Percy, too, and > thus within the time that Fred and George were using the Map, they'd have > been unlikely to check their dormitory for lurking dangers. They were > checking hallways and offices and such. They didn't have to check for people > who might catch them sneaking around their own rooms." > > But there are times when Ron takes Scabbers with him, to lessons and so on. There are? I've only seen references to him on the train or in the dorm room (maybe the common room). Especially during the last book, he kept him in the room to hide him from Crookshanks. > If Percy did the same, then when he was on patrol as a prefect he would have > Scabbers with him and be more likely to be noticed. But when Percy became a prefect, Arthur and Molly gave him Hermes, and presumably that's when he gave Scabbers to Ron. So unless he wanted to take his little brother's rat with him, Scabbers would not have made the rounds with Percy the prefect. I suspect this is another little thing JKR didn't really notice, like the werewolf thing, that we, um, enthusiasts have managed to construct satisfactory explanations for. I suspect also that if JKR ever looked at our old files she'd love the amount of thinking she wouldn't have to do to explain some of this stuff! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 01:45:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:45:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] life expectancy, romance, that fatefull night, scabbers References: <01c03c34$5ec35740$901d073e@warmsley> Message-ID: <39F39823.1AED36FF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4422 Warmsley wrote: > Actually, there was a thing about this on TV the other day. > Apparently it's going *down*. Kids now go through puberty 2 > years earlier than their grandparents... Yeah, for the same reason that Oriental kids aren't necessarily little short people--better nutrition. --Amanda From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 23 01:48:32 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:48:32 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to References: <39F394E7.5E4805A6@texas.net> Message-ID: <39F398F0.6275A50C@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4423 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > The Phoenix was supposed to be Persian, was it not? Or native to someplace far > to the East? JKR said book 5 would involve a new locale, so perhaps it's the > homeland of the Phoenix (although it doesn't seem to be a unique creature in > the Harryverse, they surely have a native land). Probably owning a phoenix > isn't the most common thing around; Fawkes is the only one we've met. In mythology, I believe the phoenix is fromthe mediterranean part of africa, so egypt wouldn't be far from tradition on this. However, I think there are more phoenixes than Fawkes around - mr ollivander mentions that they use phoenix tail feathers in his wands, and Harry "tries on" at least one other wand with phoenix feather - it's a maple one. "Seven inches. Quite whippy." From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 02:06:06 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:06:06 -0500 Subject: More movie minutiae Message-ID: <39F39D0D.364FE935@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4424 Hi, I got this off an Alan Rickman guestbook, and since it's a direct quote I thought I'd pass it along. Let me know if you guys are tired of my little snippets. --Amanda (can everyone tell I'm a Rickman fan?) SUNDAY TELEGRAPH(LONDON) October 22, 2000, Sunday "Wizard wheeze" By Adam Helliker THE Duke and Duchess of Northumberland have good reason to be grateful to Harry Potter: the couple have made a small fortune from renting out their stately home, Alnwick Castle, as the setting in the forthcoming film for the Hogwart's school of wizardry. As the last few flakes of fake snow were being swept away this weekend, (the aftermath of the Christmas sequence), such stars as Robbie Coltrane, Alan Rickman and Zoe Wanamaker have packed their bags, expressing reluctance about leaving the magical beauty spot set in 600 acres of woodland. "We were delighted to have had them there," declared a spokesman for the duke, who has made a tidy sum in location fees from film companies - the castle has featured in Becket, Mary Queen of Scots, Robin Hood Prince of Thieves and the television series Blackadder, and his London home Syon House, in Middlesex, has just starred in the film of the Henry James novel The Golden Bowl.[italics added] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 02:09:31 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:09:31 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to References: <39F394E7.5E4805A6@texas.net> <39F398F0.6275A50C@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39F39DDB.CD9494F1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4425 heidi wrote: > In mythology, I believe the phoenix is fromthe mediterranean part of africa, so > egypt wouldn't be far from tradition on this. > However, I think there are more phoenixes than Fawkes around Oh, me too. I was just pointing out that they don't really seem to be too common as pets. Perhaps only those of a certain stature can have one, perhaps the "owners" are selected by the phoenices, perhaps only members of the Order can have one...? --Amanda, whose father was fond of pointing out that the plural "Phoenices" didn't exist because there was only one Phoenix....but to this day I say "Kleenices" for more than one Kleenex From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 02:19:52 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:19:52 -0000 Subject: animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an animagus? In-Reply-To: <8ssns9+9lte@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t0788+98d0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4426 Well, folks, we have a long haul ahead of us... If you were to become an animagus/a, what would you LIKE to become? Is that different than what you think you WOULD become? What would you be afraid you MIGHT become? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 02:31:40 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:31:40 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary In-Reply-To: <39F1DA9B.F8A80CF1@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t07uc+4nbc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4427 I DO think it's a major faux pax/gap in the story that no one noticed that Ron was carrying around someone named Peter Pettigrew all the time or that PP was in the dormitory... Also, the construction of the Marauder's Map must have been an incredible piece of magic for young wizard's...James Potter, et aliae must have been brilliant.....not only do they become animagi, but they construct this map, AND James would have been "disappointed" had Harry not snuck out of the castle. I really hope she does a prequel.. And then the construction of Riddle's diary..another major piece of magic which lends itself to all kinds of speculation.. while he was "awake" in CoS, could he communicate with Lucius Malfoy? BTW, when first I read the books CoS was my least favorite, but now I find myself returning to it more and more.... S From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 02:37:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:37:10 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's wand In-Reply-To: <39F1D570.B8769CF2@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t088m+famb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4428 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > And why can't Hagrid get a new wand? Do wizards/witches who haven't > > been to Hogwarts have wands? > Amanda Lewinski wrote: > In Hagrid's case, I suspect the wand-makers all know his situation. He's a > bit high-profile (in more ways than one), and in all probability the > wand-making industry is not a huge one and they know each other, and they'd > know that he'd been expelled from Hogwarts and wasn't a qualified wizard. > > ...? whatcha think ...? susan mcgee replied: Oh, sorry. I'm suggesting that AFTER it became clear that he did NOT open the Chamber of Secrets, but in fact it was Tom Riddle, later Lord Voldemort, he should have been able to get a wand. OR, do wands ONLY go to graduates of Hogwarts --- and the students have them on probation? Do the drivers of the Knight Bus (our representatives of the Wizard proletariat) have wands? Susan > > --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 02:41:45 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:41:45 -0000 Subject: Molly Weasley's (Red?) Hair In-Reply-To: <13107252.972153124275.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <8t08h9+41g6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4429 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Malabud wrote: > Nick and Kelley have been discussing back and forth the color of Molly > Weasley's hair, and I thought I'd add my thoughts. > > The gene for red hair must come from both parents in order for the children > to have red hair. Of course, it is not necessary for Mrs. Weasley to have > red hair to pass on the gene. Considering that *all* the Weasley children > have "flaming red hair", it is highly unlikely that she does not have red > hair herself. > > I don't own a copy of PoA (blasphemy, I know), so I can't quote directly, > but isn't there a passage in the opening chapters about how all the Weasleys > (including the parents) have red hair? Harry's looking at the cover photo on > the Daily Prophet of all the Weasley's in Egypt. The photo is in black and > white, but Harry knows they all have red hair. Can someone help with this > passage? > > Malabud > > > > >Oh, goodness gracious me, now we're going to test my knowledge of genetics? I'd rather quote from Doyle's the Red Headed League.... I thought red hair was a recessive like blue eyes...... so that Molly Weasley could have it as a recessive and have brown hair and Arthur could have red hair/red hair...this would make it POSSIBLE for all of their children to have red hair (particularly since EACH coin toss has equal probability and doesn't have any effect on the next coin toss..). But *I* think it unlikely that ALL the Weasley kids would have red hair and Molly not. In addition, Malfoy says at some point all the Weasleys have red hair and more kids than they can afford. ( I think) So..happy to have all these theories/comments refuted. Susan > _______________________________________________________ > Say Bye to Slow Internet! > http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 23 02:46:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:46:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) References: <8svms5+k73d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F3A672.A5BC0A49@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4430 Hi -- Rita Winston wrote: > They couldn't have got from the Burrow to the Ottery St. Catchpole > train station without taxis anyway. Mrs Weasley probably knows next > to nothing about Muggle taxis, Muggle trains, and how much Muggle > money is worth, so probably she figured that since she had to deal > with taxis anyway, just take them all the way to King's Cross and not > have to deal with Muggle trains as well. Great point! That might be a nice explanation for how they ended up taking taxis all the way to London from Devon -- but if the Weasleys have so little money, wouldn't poor Mrs. Weasley have been horrified by the final tab once they all got there? Or, because the Ministry was *unable* to provide cars for the Weasleys et al, would the Ministry maybe have footed the tab? I still think the Burrow is meant to be near Exeter. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Mon Oct 23 02:45:26 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:45:26 -0000 Subject: What that book title might also refer to In-Reply-To: <39F394E7.5E4805A6@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t08o6+bo6p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4431 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > The Phoenix was supposed to be Persian, was it not? Or native to > someplace far to the East? JKR said book 5 would involve a new > locale, so perhaps it's the homeland of the Phoenix In real life (tm), the phoenix originated in Egypt, where it was named bennu which means 'shining' or 'bright'. It was a solar creature and was reborn every 1470 solar years = 1471 calendar years (i.e. when the 365 day year, no leap year, came around to match the seasons again. Most nations don't keep track that long). In real life (tm), the Greeks changed its name to Phoenix, which means reddish-purple, and might seem to a Greek to sound like 'bennu'. Phoenicia (the coastal portion of modern Israel and Lebanon, where Canaanites remained after Israelites had conquered the rest of Canaan) has nothing to do with phoenixes, but is named reddish-purple for some other reason. A popular theory is that Phoenicia is named after the famous Tyrian purple dye (made from vast quantities of rotted, dead, ocean molluscs) that was one of the main things the Phoenicians got rich sellng all around the Mediterranean. They also changed the Phoenix to do its immolation thing every 500 years instead of every 1470-1471. Egypt is where Bill works for Gringotts as a cursebreaker, whatever a cursebreaker does, and there used to be old rumors that one HP book would have sections in Egypt, perhaps related to Bill's job. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 02:49:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:49:04 -0000 Subject: Night fears from Harry Potter (Slightly OT!) In-Reply-To: <002101c03be5$35c004a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8t08v0+kf04@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4432 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > Rita, > I like that poem now, but as a kid, my parents taught the typical Christian prayer, Now I lay me down to sleep....I disliked intensely the last two lines, if I die... (Still shudders about those lines years later!) Yup, me too, I was terrified by the if I die before I wake line... > > At the age of Peg's daughter (7-9 years), I had a few nightmares due to movies (like Ichabod Disney's version that used to be on each Halloween used to scare me half to death!) is this the Headless Horseman? If yes, me too! or other things, (believe this or not) like the six o clock news! (or the 11 o'clock, which I didn't get to see often) > > I used to have nightmares about floods, tornadoes, and such... > > but the most frequent one was fire. I dreamt nightly about the house catching on fire. Nothing anyone did would stop it. > > It's the age. > > Dee > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rita Winston > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 9:42 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Night fears from Harry Potter > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > > > But I was wondering . . . how about you other parents out there who > > have read Harry Potter to your kids. Have you encountered any > > night fears due to the books? How have you handled them? > > I don't have any children, but I remember that when I was a child, I > had night fears of the Black Riders (Nazgul) when I read Lord of the > Rings. I dealt with it by reciting the "Four posts around my bed, > four angels round my head" nursery rhyme. Which was very helpful even > tho' my bed didn't have posts and I don't believe in the four > evangelists. > > Four post around my bed > Four angels round my head > Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, > bless the bed that I lay on > and if I die before I wake > I pray the Lord my soul to take. > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Mon Oct 23 02:50:19 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:50:19 -0000 Subject: puberty (was: life expectancy, romance, that fatefull night, scabbers In-Reply-To: <39F39823.1AED36FF@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t091b+qhst@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4433 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Warmsley wrote: > > > Actually, there was a thing about this on TV the other day. > > Apparently it's going *down*. Kids now go through puberty 2 > > years earlier than their grandparents... > > Yeah, for the same reason that Oriental kids aren't necessarily > little short people--better nutrition. It is said that there has been a decline in the age of puberty over this whole (twentieth) century. Most of that was due to better nutrition, but my friend Lee read in the newspaper about 9 years old not being rare as the age of puberty nowdays. She was horrified and said that it must be due to the estrogens in beef and chicken (everyone here *does* know that non-organic livestock producers feed estrogens to cattle and chickens to make them gain weight faster?). From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 03:04:42 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:04:42 -0000 Subject: 7 Heavenly Virtues: Charity (Long) In-Reply-To: <39F27410.6CAC150@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8t09sa+6sao@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4434 > > > > He learns to care about Ron and Hermione. And make no mistake, his > caring for both of them is tested--for Hermione in Book 3 (over the > incident with Scabbers and Crookshanks) and for Ron in Book 4 (over the > Goblet of Fire). Both tests of friendship are tests of Harry's charity, > and he nearly gets both wrong. "I gotta tell yeh," Hagrid says, > reproving Harry and Ron for the quarrel with Hermione, "I thought you > two'd value yer friend more'n brooksticks or rats." Again, with Ron in > Book 4, Harry behaves badly--for example, the scene in the common room, > where Harry loses his temper and throws the button at Ron. But all > comes out in the end--Harry chooses to set those friendships aright, > partly because events clarify the things that led to misunderstandings, > but partly because he misses the caring and friendship he had with both > Ron and Hermione when he was on the outs with them. And that is good; > it shows Harry's development. He has gone from someone who lived > without either giving or receiving charity, who reacted as coldly toward > the Dursleys as they acted toward him, to someone who realizes that > something is missing when relationships go awry. He is coming to > genuinely care for other people, and not just Ron, Hermione and Hagrid. > > As I discussed in the last essay, on hope, Harry sees in Book 3 the > playing out of the drama from the previous generation's struggle with > Voldemort, which foreshadows what he himself will go through, in Book 4 > (and presumably beyond). Specifically, he witnesses Sirius' and Lupin's > confrontation of Peter Pettigrew, which brings this theme of charity > right to the foreground. Let's look at that pivotal scene again: > > "He [Voldemort] was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. > "Wh--what was there to be gained by refusing him?" > > "What was there to be gained by fighting the most evil wizard who has > ever existed?" said Black, with a terrible fury in his face. "Only > innocent lives, Peter!" > > "You don't understand!" whined Pettigrew. "He would have killed me, > Sirius!" > > "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!" roared Black. "DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY > YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" > > > > "NO!" Harry yelled. He ran forward, placing himself in front of > Pettigrew, facing the wands. "You can't kill him," he said > breathlessly. "You can't. . . We'll take him up to the castle. We'll > hand him over to dementors. He can go to Azkaban. . . but don't kill > him." > > Note Peter's question. "What was there to be gained by resisting him > [Voldemort]?" That is pure selfishness speaking. For those of you > familiar with Lawrene Kohlberg's theory of the stages of moral > development, Peter is stuck at the very first stage, the need to avoid > punishment. For further reading on Kohlberg's theory, see: > http://moon.pepperdine.edu/gsep/class/ethics/kohlberg/Stages_Moral- Development.html > > That is pure HUMANNESS speaking, the natural urge for > self-preservation. Sirius' answer is profound: the only thing to be > gained when you lose yourself is the knowledge that your gain is for > others, the ones that you love. Which you can care about ONLY because > you love. Because Peter did not truly love, he did not truly understand > the enormity of his crime. > > But this points up a very hard thing about charity--if you do it right, > you may get nothing for it (if you look at it from the human selfish > point of view). Just as Lily gave up her life for her son, the true > virtue of charity may mean giving up everything for the one you love. > The comfort you have is knowing that the ones you love would be willing > to do the same for you. I'm not sure I agree here, Peg (and this may not be the most confident and SURE and COHERENT of your essays, but may be the best because you are struggling, and in struggle, and analysis, there is great potential for knoweldge). The comfort you have in risking your life for your friends or your children is that you love them, and that you have the courage to do it. You are at that moment, your best self, and there is nothing that feels better than being your best self. I don't think it's based on the knowledge of reciprocity at all. It is like faith, in that having faith may not > mean that you get what you want. Having charity may gain you nothing > but death at the end of Voldemort's wand . . . and the knowledge that > the lives you have saved have gained a few more seconds, which they will > hopefully use to fight on. > > Sirius and Lupin, although they understand the nature of > self-sacrificing love, do not embody charity perfectly. They would have > died for Peter--but since Peter refused the deal, as far as Sirius and > Lupin are concerned, the deal is off. "You should have realized," Lupin > said quietly, "that if Voldemort didn't kill you, we would." This is a > higher level of morality than Peter showed--which was pure selfishness > and wish to avoid punishment--but it is not yet pure charity, as it is > still based somewhat on a tit for tat reasoning. > Hmmm, maybe yes, but maybe no. Tolkein does this with Gollum, that because someone had mercy for Gollum, the world was redeemed. But I'm not sure (if this were real life) that Sirius and Lupin should have listened to Harry. It's nobler to spare Pettigrew...well in a way...some would prefer death to Azkeban.....but it might have been more heroic to take on the sin of killing Pettigrew and preventing him from aiding in Lord Voldemort's return..... > But Harry intervenes and demonstrates something related to charity: he > shows mercy, something that Peter doesn't deserve. Harry is profoundly > insightful at this moment, because when Peter admits as much, Harry > tells Peter that he isn't doing it as much for him but for Sirius and > Lupin: "I don't reckon my dad would have wanted them[Sirius and Lupin] > to become killers -- just for you." > > I'm not quite sure what exactly has brought Harry to this point in his > moral development. Bonds with friends, the bitter experience of the > Dursleys to teach him what it was like to live WITHOUT charity, or > perhaps the lingering effects of his mother's sacrifice . . . or > something else, who knows? Whatever it is, Harry shows here that he > understand charity, and although he wavers and wobbles sometimes, he has > chosen his side. > > A few other points, which I am not quite sure how to work into a > coherently flowing essay, so I'll just attack them gracelessly one by > one. > > Hermione and the house elves: I think Hermione thinks she is showing > benevolence and mercy in her dealings with the house elves, but somehow, > her efforts don't seem to be appreciated by anybody. I'll try to deal > with this in more depth when I do the upcoming essay on the Virtue of > Justice. > Someone else has struct the true chord here. Hermione does not go to the House Elves and talk with them, ask them what they want and need. She takes over and makes decisions for them. This is really not ethical (although it comes from compassion and righteousness). It is condescending and mistaken to tell oppressed people what they really need and want. Hermione needs to learn humility around this issue > Also: Harry, I think, will have to face moral decisions about charity in > the upcoming books which I think will come closer and closer to > resembling his mother and Peter Pettigrew's dilemma. He will need to > decide, am I willing to stick my neck out for someone I care about? In > a way he has faced this before to a lesser degree: he did it for Ginny > in the second book, and for Ron during the Second Task in the Fourth > book. But I think that the upcoming decision(s) will be more stark, > more hope-less. He took a risk for Ginny, but when he went down into > that tunnel, he still hoped that he would come out alive. Similarly, > when he went down for Ron, he knew that there was a theoretical risk of > death, but he really didn't think that he would die there at the bottom > of the lake (although he was afraid that Ron, Hermione, Cho and > Gabrielle might). > > In the past books, when Harry has been truly cornered and really looking > death in the eye, he has been in situations where he is simply trying to > save himself. He was alone at the climax of the first and fourth books, > and he wasn't facing Voldemort directly in the third. In the second, he > thought that Ginny might already be dead. But I think that in a future > book we might see something different. We will see him be put in a > situation where he must decide whether he would willingly sacrifice > himself for someone else, or perhaps for many other people. > > In a way, I think it is rather unfair that I'm trying to do this post in > the middle of the series, because we haven't had a chance to see whether > Harry will truly fall in love. Perhaps, if he had a relationship with > someone he loved in a special way (with Hermione? Ginny? Cho? Down, all > you 'shippers! Down!), he would gladly sacrifice himself. > Ah, but this is not truly agape, but Eros....the sacrifice of a lover for the beloved is one thing...but the sacrifice of friend for friend, teacher for pupil, etc. is another......I don't think "falling in love" is really a predictor or predicator of self sacrifice...is this making any sense? For example, I think the person who Harry might be most likely to sacrifice himself is Sirius Black. > But perhaps it won't be someone he loves that way, with eros-love. > Perhaps he will face Peter Pettigrew's dilemma defending Ron > (philos-love), or Hagrid, or Dumbledore, or Hogwarts as a whole. But > I think he will have to face it. Someday. And to do it successfully, > he will have to demonstrate agape-love, as his mother did for him. > > One final note: I don't think anyone has ever mentioned the special > poignancy of the fact that in the scene Harry has with Cedric's parents, > he is seeing a mirror of his own tragedy. Here he sees a pair of > bereaved parents whose world has fallen apart because they have lost a > brave, beloved son, just as his own world fell apart because he lost a > pair of brave, beloved parents. In seeing their grief, he experiences > his own grief all over again, from a different, almost opposite, angle. > > The final sign of charity I want to mention that Harry demonstrates is > his benevolence in giving the money from the Tri-Wizard Tournament to > Fred and George. In part, it is not even a sacrifice for him, because > he truly doesn't want the money. But he doesn't throw it away, as he > threatens to George and Fred to do. He uses it to light a candle to > drive back the darkness--to give Fred and George the opportunity to > start the joke shop, so that they can create the laughs they will all so > badly need. And he tells Fred and George to buy dress robes for Ron--in > a manner that will not hurt Ron's pride. > > Harry stands at the end of GoF, weary and wounded, but among friends. > He does not have to live apart and alone, as Peter Pettigrew did, who > chose to become a rat, literally, rather than accept the hard demands of > living by the precepts of charity. > > Yet the greatest test of Harry's charity is probably still to come. "As > Hagrid said, what would come, would come . . . and he would have to meet > it when it did." > > > > I'm not very satisfied with this essay. I don't think it's one of my > best. I can't remember who it was who remarked at the end of a letter > to a friend that he didn't have time to write a four-page letter, so he > had written an eight-page one (Chesterton, maybe?) This essay has rather > that feel. Long and sprawley because I haven't had time to tighten it, > and I'm too fried now anyway to try and so will send it on its way. I > hope you will all forgive me. Comments? > > For those of you who would like to review the earlier essays I have > written about the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Heavenly Virtues up until this > one, following are the message numbers: > > 7 Deadly Sins: > Pride: 1553 > Envy: 1699 > Gluttony: 1878 > Lust: 2118 > Anger: 2545 > Covetousness: 2877 > Sloth: 2998 > > 7 Heavenly Virtues: > Faith: 3468 > Hope: 3660 > > Related essays, possibly also of interest: > > Loyalty: 788 > Secrets: 957 > Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 > > Peg From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 23 03:05:48 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:05:48 -0500 Subject: Godric's Hollow/what happened (long) References: <8svnff+3l4t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F3AB0C.3EA6CE21@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4435 Hi -- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > Ah, I understand the direction of your logic. But IMHO Godric's > Hollow, unlike Ottery St. Catchpole, got it's name not from an actual > place name but from JKR's wish to tie it in with the name of Godric > Gryffindor. That's a distinct possibility. > After attacking James and Lily and wounding but not killing them > (perhaps because the defense did in fact block the Avada Kadavra curse > to some extent), he turned his wand on Harry. But the combination of > the defense cooked up by James and Lily and the deep magic of his > mother's sacrificial attempt to save him was enough to blast the curse > back on Voldemort and he was nearly killed. At this point he fled, > leaving his wand behind him, soince he couldn't hold it in > noncorporeal form. > > At this point, the sequence of spells revealed by the Priori > Incantatem hasn't begun. If it had, one of the spells we see > regurgitated would have been the one that rebounded and almost > destroyed Voldemort. Therefore someone else must have taken up the > wand and finished the job, killing first Lily and then James. I am > betting that that someone was Crouch, although it could have been > another Death Eater who accompanied Voldemort that night. This is a creative explanation for Priori Incantatum -- had we heard it before? We've heard so many theories on this subject . . . . I like this one. We were speculating the other day about whether or not priori incantatum regurgitates the last spells cast by the wand itself or the last spells cast by the wand's owner, were we not? > Hagrid didn't stick around. He said he got out before the Muggles > started swarming around, and frankly, can you imagine him trying to > be inconspicuous? My guess is that Godric's Hollow isn't a village, > because if there were Muggles nearby, they would have been swarming > almost instantly in typical Muggle rubber-necking fashion. Well, I know Hagrid's veracity has been called into question somewhat in the last few weeks . . . but, he did refer to Godric's Hollow as a "village" (Chapter 4 -- SS). If for the sake of speculation, Godric's Hollow *were* more or less in the vicinity of the village of Godre'r-graig, it would be a fairly wooded area it appears. I can argue that Hagrid might have spirited Harry away to the nearby woodlands where Hagrid could be inconspicuous and yet observe what all was going on. > At any rate, Sirius also turned up at that point, and in order to > allow Hagrid to travel more quickly with Harry, he lent him his > motorcycle. He could apparate anyway and would use other means to > track down Pettigrew. Hagrid might have accepted the motorcycle but would have likely known that he couldn't turn up with Harry in Privet Drive in broad daylight; therefore, his arrival would have to wait until the following night. He might have laid low with the motorcycle, observing what all was going on while he was stuck waiting anyway. > So they developed a plan involving Arabella Figg, the Dursleys, and > probably others who would watch over him and guard him. Dumbledore > probably cast some deep family-related magical guard spells which are > why Harry now has to stay at the Dursleys. Not that Voldemort is anymore believable necessarily than Hagrid, but he does say in GoF that it was *Dumbledore* who was left to "work out" Harry's future. I guess it's possible that Hagrid's role was unknown to Voldemort or he just wasn't mentioned. I think it's fairly clear that Dumbledore did cast some magical guard spells that require Harry to return to the Dursleys each year. > And somewhere in London, more or less at the same time, Sirius Black > meets up with Pettigrew, so no one on Privet Drive that night knew > anything about it yet... It's not specified but I have the impression that the Black/Pettigrew confrontation happened in daylight (PoA - Ch 10). It might be difficult to have "eyewitnesses" & kill a street "full of muggles" late at night. I know that's possible but . . . . daylight seems more likely to me. I think "the next day" was actually Nov 2nd. I think the Voldy attack on the Potters commenced on Halloween night around (just before) midnight. So, when Black arrived at the ruins of the Potter home was actually the wee hours of November 1st. Hagrid might have known that even if he left right away, he couldn't get Harry to Privet Drive in time for him to be left. In any case, I still do maintain that Hagrid's point of origination just prior to arriving on Privet Drive had to be Wales, Ireland or the Hebrides in order for them to fly over Bristol toward Surrey. As to whether Godric's Hollow is one of those places or whether Hagrid went to one of those places while waiting until he could take Harry to Privet Drive . . . . . well, we can debate. Of course, what's interesting is that Hagrid's recount of events leaves one with the definite impression that he rescued Harry from the ruins & set off immediately for Privet Drive, with baby Harry falling asleep over Bristol. We all know that really can't be right though. Can it? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 03:17:50 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:17:50 -0000 Subject: scariest scene In-Reply-To: <8svpsj+q1uv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t0aku+i9h5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4436 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > > Peg's comment about her daughter having nightmares has got me > thinking. . . . > > > > What do you think the scariest scene in the books so far is? > > > How about the entire scene with the basilisk? I am easily creeped > out by snakes (which is why I *never* watch Steve Irwin and his Croc > Files show on Animal Planet--he mucks about with snakes far too much > for my taste). The very idea of a large snake wandering through the > plumbing of Hogwarts gave me gooseflesh and I nearly jumped out of my > skin when the nasty thing bit Harry. The graveyard scene > with the big bad V and his DE's didn't frighten me half as much! > > Trina (who also was terrified by Disney's "Headless Horseman" and > still hasn't seen "Sleepy Hollow" because of it.) I found the scene where Voldemort kills the old Muggle at the beginning of GoF scary. And the scene where Harry is praying that V will drown (at the end of GoF). The scene where the Dementors are surrounding Sirius and Harry is terrifying. But if I had to put my finger on it...probably the execution of Buckbeak was the worst for me... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 23 03:22:36 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:22:36 -0000 Subject: scary things and kids In-Reply-To: <39F392AA.FF84B0B5@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t0ats+2vc2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4437 > > My dad let me watch The Blob when I was about 5 or 6, and also obligingly > pointed out that it could indeed squeeze through air conditioner vents and > under doors. I had a phobia about that one for years; wouldn't go to sleep > facing away from the room, in case it came in to get me. In fact, I wouldn't > even watch the movie again until after I was married. > I was scared by the Blob, and the Fly, but was truly terrified by Invaders from Mars. Watched it while I had a fever, and was scared to death by it for months. Watched it as an adult to get rid of the fear, and did fine until the very end when it was clear that the "good" ending was a dream and the nightmare was starting again. Susan From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 03:28:01 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:28:01 -0000 Subject: JKR on CNN Transcript In-Reply-To: <20001022130701.6054.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <8t0b81+u72l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4438 I'm not sure if JKR knows about us specifically but- well it would be hard for her not to notice there are obsessives out there. She has said that she is quite obsessive as well. I KNOW I am. Which brings me to something I've often wondered. If JKR hadn't written HP do you think she would be one of us? (Of course the fact that she did doesn't mean she still isn't welcome to join, but lets put it this way- I'm not holding my breath.) Scott >>>> > ROWLING: No. In all honesty, I didn't think it would do this well with anyone. I thought I was writing quite an obscure book that if it ever got published would maybe have a handful of devotees because I thought -- it is kind of a book for obsessives. I thought, well, maybe a few people will like it a lot. I never expected it to have broad appeal. > > This made me laugh out loud. "Obsessives." Ha! If she only knew! Do you think she knows? voicelady From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 23 03:50:14 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:50:14 -0000 Subject: Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) In-Reply-To: <39F3A672.A5BC0A49@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8t0chm+d85a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4439 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > but if the Weasleys > have so little money, wouldn't poor Mrs. Weasley have been horrified by > the final tab once they all got there Maybe wizards can conjure up muggle money, but not wizard money. Hence the Weasleys always have plenty of clothes and food, but cant afford wands and robes and all the other stuff you buy in Diagon Alley. -- Joywitch, who would like to have that spell From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Mon Oct 23 03:52:52 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:52:52 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Night fears from Harry Potter (Slightly OT!) Message-ID: <56.242bb24.27251014@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4440 try this one Now I lay me down to sleep I play the LORD my soul to keep Guard me Jesus thru the night And wake me with the morning light I like this one better From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Oct 23 03:58:15 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:58:15 -0000 Subject: New Book Covers Message-ID: <8t0d0n+eogq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4441 We now have China, Thailand, and Taiwan represented in our collection of international book covers. Please take a look in the Files section. -Jim Flanagan From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 04:26:08 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:26:08 -0500 Subject: "I say, we will have no more marriages...." References: <8saef2+4ct3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a701c03ca9$5e6e4b40$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4442 (the title of this post is from Hamlet, III,i) Perhaps I've missed something (please alert me if I have), but AFAIK none of the Hogwarts professors seem to be married. I do not recall any mention of a Mr. Sprout or a Mrs. Flitwick, let alone a better half of Snape or Lockhart. Do Hogwarts profs have to take a vow of celibacy, or do these academic posts pay so poorly that marriage is out of the question? - the mean CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 04:45:24 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:45:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Charity (Long) References: <39F27410.6CAC150@ibm.net> Message-ID: <010801c03cac$0f78f280$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4443 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peg Kerr" To: "HPforGrownups" Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 11:58 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Charity (Long) > > > I'm not very satisfied with this essay. I don't think it's one of my > best. I can't remember who it was who remarked at the end of a letter > to a friend that he didn't have time to write a four-page letter, so he > had written an eight-page one (Chesterton, maybe?) IIRC, it was Madame de Stael (aka Germaine, Baronne de Stael-Holstein, 1766-1817) Your essay is quite good - charity is a difficult concept to nail down. You may want to look at Charity from the perspective of the other major characters: e.g., Snape - clearly he does not like Harry and is willing to harass him in all sorts of petty ways - yet is he still able to protect Harry when the situation demands it. Dumbledore seems at a spiritual point where his own desires do not matter - he selflessly offers guidance to all who recognize their need for it. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 04:56:16 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:56:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JKR on CNN Transcript References: <20001022130701.6054.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <01c901c03cad$93bfc040$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4444 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 8:07 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] JKR on CNN Transcript > On Sat, 21 October 2000, JandLComm at aol.com wrote: > > > The transcipt for the Larry King interview from Oct 20 can be found here: > > ROWLING: No. In all honesty, I didn't think it would do this well with anyone. I thought I was writing quite an obscure book that if it ever got published would maybe have a handful of devotees because I thought -- it is kind of a book for obsessives. I thought, well, maybe a few people will like it a lot. I never expected it to have broad appeal. > > This made me laugh out loud. "Obsessives." Ha! If she only knew! Do you think she knows? > Nobody ain't here except us disinterested spectators..... - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 05:08:27 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:08:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] scariest scene References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001022160105.00a96c30@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <01a701c03caf$47a03940$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4445 ----- Original Message ----- From: "DrMM" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 4:05 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] scariest scene > Peg's comment about her daughter having nightmares has got me thinking. . . . > > What do you think the scariest scene in the books so far is? > > In my world, the scene in PS/SS where Quirrel is drinking the Unicorn blood > bothers me every time I read it. Nothing in any of the other books really > bothered me. Even Voldemort's return and the previous deaths in GoF didn't > disturb me at all. But that Unicorn scene gets me every time . . . > > Hum, on second thought . . . the giant spiders in CoS bother me too . . . > but that's because I *hate* spiders. > > DrMM > *~*~*~*~*~* > DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com > http://www.fuuko.com > Most recent anime: Maho Tsukia Tai > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 05:12:34 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:12:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] scariest scene References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001022160105.00a96c30@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <01b201c03caf$daaeb540$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4446 ----- Original Message ----- From: "DrMM" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 4:05 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] scariest scene > Peg's comment about her daughter having nightmares has got me thinking. . . . > > What do you think the scariest scene in the books so far is? > > In my world, the scene in PS/SS where Quirrel is drinking the Unicorn blood > bothers me every time I read it. Nothing in any of the other books really > bothered me. Even Voldemort's return and the previous deaths in GoF didn't > disturb me at all. But that Unicorn scene gets me every time . To me, the Dementors rank up there with HP Lovecraft's Great Race (in The Shadow Out of Time) as the most terrifying beings ever imagined: while all the Dementor scenes in PoA are frightening, the most intense is Chapter 20, when Harry is but moments away from suffering the Kiss...... - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 05:14:50 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:14:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers References: <39F39705.CF1BC0D1@texas.net> Message-ID: <01b901c03cb0$2bcf7220$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4447 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers > "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > > > Amanda wrote: "1. Me: even if Scabbers were at Hogwarts with Percy, too, and > > thus within the time that Fred and George were using the Map, they'd have > > been unlikely to check their dormitory for lurking dangers. They were > > checking hallways and offices and such. They didn't have to check for people > > who might catch them sneaking around their own rooms > I suspect this is another little thing JKR didn't really notice Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would have known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on the Map. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 05:17:47 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:17:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemorts Passion References: <8sllva+u7av@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01d601c03cb0$955bb5a0$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4448 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott " To: Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 9:23 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemorts Passion > Ok, I came up with a comepletely wild theory today. Not as wild as I anticipated - I thought you were going to speculate upon his possible crucifixion. - the reverent CMC From Ellimist15 at aol.com Mon Oct 23 05:13:08 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:13:08 EDT Subject: HP as a play? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4449 In a play of "Harry Potter", Quidditch *would* be possible. Anyone who has seen "The Lion King" on Broadway would know that with imagination, you can do anything. However, flight is no longer simply imagination when applied to theater. In "Peter Pan", a harness and a couple of wires were used to allow actors to soar across the stage. And it's not obvious! In "AIDA", there is a brief segment where two girls fly up and down in the illusion of a swimming pool, and they only wear swimsuits! You can't even see the strings or harness. BTW, if you ever find yourself in New York, AIDA should be a priority. It's fantastic AND co-stars Adam Pascal. ::melts:: Back on the subject, I can envision a Lee Jordan commentary with a bunch of actors swinging across the stage; Katie, Alicia and Angelina tossing the Quaffle around... Harry searching for the snitch... Fred or George hitting a Bludger into the audience... Ellie Rosenthal << Neil said: I've just been watching playwright and poet, Adrian Mitchell being interviewed on TV. I wasn't really watching, but then he started talking about "the Potter books" and how the writing "tumbles on like a river". Then he admitted that he'd like to adapt the Harry Potter books for the stage and there was some discussion along the lines of "how on earth would you do Quidditch on the stage?" Would Harry Potter work on the stage? I have a sudden vision of Crookshanks, either as Dick Whittington's panto cat or as one the cats-in-a-leotard from the musical "Cats!" That aside, I think it would be fun. The most unlikely things end up on stage. I remember being a bit startled that Iain Banks' "The Wasp Factory" had been made into a play, but by all accounts it was really good. The idea of a musical about the Titanic disaster also seemed a bit weird, but it was a success. Why not Harry Potter? Neil >> From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Oct 23 05:20:51 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:20:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] We figured it out! References: <39F100FC.60FC97E9@texas.net> Message-ID: <01ed01c03cb1$0341dd60$27c44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4450 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" To: Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:35 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] We figured it out! > Yay! My one and only non-virtual friend who's read the Potter books is > over here tonight, and she has (I think) solved the question of why > nobody else noticed "Peter Pettigrew" on the Marauder's Map. Very ingenious, but in addition, if I may repeat what I just posted in response to another post, wouldn't Peter, as one of the original authors of the Marauders' Map, know how to circumvent its ID functions? - CMC From brooksar at indy.net Mon Oct 23 06:10:58 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks A. Rowlett) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:10:58 -0500 Subject: English/US differences and Phoenix. References: <972264882.25613@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39F3D673.57A62C72@indy.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4451 Usage: I just a day or two ago noticed, having acquired a copy of the Canadian edition of Philosopher's Stone, a subtle difference in the US and British/Canadian editions (the text of the Canadian edition in all differences I had noted before conformed of the British edition, so i am presuming that this difference exists in that as well). The Canadian edition says Hagrid appeared on a motorBIKE. The US version says a motorCYCLE. Note to the non-US members - although rare, there are such things in the US as motorized bicycles (much less powerful engines and with foot pedals that do work). Most US people would say a motorcycle - in fact, an illogical piece of US usage is that people who ride the motorCYCLEs are referred to as Bikers (and we have Motorcycle gangs, or Biker gangs) and to a lesser, but still strong extent, people who ride foot-powered bicycles are called CYCLISTS, and only rarely bikers. Phoenix: Note that many versions of the legend of the phoenix (including Edward Ormondroyd's wonderful children's book _David and the Phoenix_ just reissued after all these years) state thate the Phoenix is extraordinarily rare - in fact, unique - there is only ONE phoenix at a time. (What is the plural of phoenix? If there IS only one at a time, is a plural even relevant?) The Phoenix, since it is reborn from its own ashes, needs no mate or gender. On our way to the Christopher Parkening concert this afternoon, Vicki and I were discussing possible implications of this title (we concur that it may actually only be a working or decoy title, but might indeed still be relevant) and she came up with a suggestion i do not think has been mentioned yet - that it may imply that Harry will inherit Fawkes - because we may lose Dumbledore this time around.... which led me to think that perhaps the 'Hogwarts Wizards and Witches Sewing Circle and Anti-Voldemort Society' will be called "The Order of the Phoenix" in honor of Dumbledore..... or perhaps the Anti-Voldemort underground is called that because of loyalty to Dumbledore, and we won't lose him yet.... By the way: Simon wrote: > > I would guess that puberty still happens at roughly the same age. Even > though human life expectancy has risen quite sharply over the last 100 years > the age that kids go through puberty has remained fairly static. I would > guess that it is the magical medical care that increases life expectancy. This is not entirely accurate. In fact puberty onset in some societies has become earlier and earlier over the years as nutrition and sanitation has improved; average menarche in girls in the US has become measurably earlier in the XXth century alone, as i recall. Moreover there is a social difference discernable as well. Some links/quotes: http://www.neoteny.org/a/progenesispuberty.html note that the above link is rather strange, and its parent link ius even stranger (but of interest in legend citation for Harry Potter: http://www.serpentfd.org/ ) But it appears to be citing a valid scientific study on this topic at least. "The decline in mean age at menarche from just below 17 years 100 years ago to around 13 years today in Western industrialized countries (Marshall & Tanner, 1986) is usually considered a phenotypic response to improved living condidtions. " See also: http://www.sfms.org/sfm/sfm1199e.htm -Brooks A Rowlett From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 23 10:57:50 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 06:57:50 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) References: <8svms5+k73d@eGroups.com> <39F3A672.A5BC0A49@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F419AE.85B600F7@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4452 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > They couldn't have got from the Burrow to the Ottery St. Catchpole > > train station without taxis anyway. Mrs Weasley probably knows next > > to nothing about Muggle taxis, Muggle trains, and how much Muggle > > money is worth, so probably she figured that since she had to deal > > with taxis anyway, just take them all the way to King's Cross and not > > have to deal with Muggle trains as well. > > Great point! That might be a nice explanation for how they ended up > taking taxis all the way to London from Devon -- but if the Weasleys > have so little money, wouldn't poor Mrs. Weasley have been horrified by > the final tab once they all got there? Or, because the Ministry was > *unable* to provide cars for the Weasleys et al, would the Ministry > maybe have footed the tab? I still think the Burrow is meant to be near > Exeter. > > I'm going along with Penny on this (or the idea that they authorized molly to do a memory wipe of the drivers to they would "forget" that theyw ere owed a large sum of money) - and I have a little weird information on long cab rides in southern england to share with you. Back in 1987, for one reason or another, my family took a London cab to Southhampton - an over 2 hour trip - so we could board a ship. That one cab cost the exact same amount as it would have cost for the 4 of us (2 adults, 1 16 year old & 1 14 year old) to take BritRail, with first class tickets. I *know* that first class tickets are more expensive, but I'm not convinced that the cost difference would've been so signficant - there were 6 kids & 1 adult goignto 9 3/4 (am I right that only Molly went, not bill or charlie?) and a whole bunch of heavy luggage, 2 owls and a cat. Probably more than one can reasonably take on a train, especially when you can't use magic toget the bags on & off, because of the muggles. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 23 11:03:29 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 07:03:29 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP as a play? References: Message-ID: <39F41B01.BE5FFB80@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4453 Ellimist15 at aol.com wrote: > In a play of "Harry Potter", Quidditch *would* be possible. Anyone who has > seen "The Lion King" on Broadway would know that with imagination, you can do > anything. However, flight is no longer simply imagination when applied to > theater. > > Back on the subject, I can envision a Lee Jordan commentary with a bunch of > actors swinging across the stage; Katie, Alicia and Angelina tossing the > Quaffle around... Harry searching for the snitch... Fred or George hitting a > Bludger into the audience... All you need are a few remote controlled Quaffles & Bludgers and a tiny laser-light snitch. : bets Hasbro is working on making them right now! From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 23 11:29:17 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:29:17 +0100 Subject: Molly, train vs taxi, animgus Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4454 Susan wrote: "Malfoy says at some point all the Weasleys have red hair and more kids than they can afford." I do think that Molly has red hair but will point out that Molly is only a Weasley through marriage and so the above statement could be considered as not applicable to her. Heidi wrote: "I *know* that first class tickets are more expensive, but I'm not convinced that the cost difference would've been so signficant - there were 6 kids & 1 adult goignto 9 3/4 (am I right that only Molly went, not bill or charlie?) and a whole bunch of heavy luggage, 2 owls and a cat. Probably more than one can reasonably take on a train, especially when you can't use magic toget the bags on & off, because of the muggles." Charlie and Bill went as well - so that makes 3 adults and 6 children. Under rail rules this is 5 adults and 4 children (16+ counts as adult). I decided I would take a look and find out if the journey was possible by train and to the cheapest it would be. I had to use 1st November 2000 as the date (still a weekday like 1st September was this year) as the site in question only works for days that have not yet happened. It is not possible to get a direct train from Exeter to Kings Cross, you have to go to Paddington and then tube across London. The train I found left at 7:55 am and you got to Kings Cross at 10:30 am (Change at Paddington at just before 10 am). Doesn't sound too bad! This would work out at 193.4 if you could get all the cheapest tickets that I selected for the journey. But I know for a fact that getting all the cheap ticket would be impossible - due to the train starting its journey before 9 am or that it arrives in London before 10 am. I think the cheapest type of tickets that you could get for the journey would bring the journey to 353.5 and travelling first class would be 539. I am unsure how this compares to 3 taxis for a 100 miles (? - I am guessing) journey. I can see Heidi as being correct that 3 taxis over that distance may not be that much more expensive. Susan asked: "If you were to become an animagus/a, what would you LIKE to become? Is that different than what you think you WOULD become? What would you be afraid you MIGHT become?" This sort of came up in the chat last night - it was which lesson would you do if you could only do one? I said transfiguration and so we got onto a discussion of what animal I would transform into. My answer (edited to remove typos) was: "I like owls so I would probably go for something like Hedwig - or else a big dog like Sirius" Simon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Oct 23 12:29:18 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:29:18 -0000 Subject: scariest scene In-Reply-To: <01b201c03caf$daaeb540$27c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8t1auu+kvsi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4455 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: << Message-ID: <8t1di7+4hp3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4456 The venerable "Caius Marcius" wrote: <<>> We did discuss this a while back. I pointed out that all the teachers appeared to be singletons and someone made the point that they might have a partner tucked away in Hogsmeade or even living in the Hogwarts grounds. However, it seems unlikely that we wouldn't have seen some of these significant others at the Yule Ball, for example. Poverty has never stopped people from marrying each other and, obviously, people don't need to be married to each other to be a couple. The adage "two can leave as cheaply as one" springs to mind. A vow of celibacy, however, seems a *bit* much for a teacher - what purpose would it serve? If it's true, it would be no surprise that Dumbledore has trouble finding suitable DADA professors. More recently, I made the point that, since we haven't seen partners of any persuasion, there is no reason to suppose that some of the teachers couldn't be gay. It may be that the teachers' other halves aren't allowed into the school and that, from Harry's POV, we don't hear much discussion which mentions them. Perhaps if we dropped in on a staff meeting (do they have them?) we'd hear all the adult gossip and get a completely different perspective. This is probably just a case of JKR not wanting to clutter up her cast list with too many 'off-screen' characters. In the context of the storyline, most of the teachers don't get enough lines to be able to afford references to their domestic or romantic doings. Neil From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 14:23:10 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:23:10 -0500 Subject: From long ago, our off topic water discussion.... Message-ID: <012b01c03cfc$c5d3ef80$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4457 http://www.infobeat.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=2570743081-692 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 23 13:39:10 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:39:10 -0500 Subject: Molly Weasley's (Red?) Hair References: <8svo5h+n5in@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F43F7E.D6F7809B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4458 Hi -- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > I get the impression that JKR treats red hair and green eyes as sort > of a quintessential magic combination. Look how so many of the really > special folks have red hair, Dumbledore as an obvious example. And > the eyes, the green eyes? We all know that JKR has mentioned that the > eyes are important, and Ginny does have the green eyes as well (can't > remember off the top of my head if it ever tells us the color of the > other kids' eyes). Dumbledore's eyes are blue, however. Actually Ginny's eyes are brown (CoS, Chapter 3). Jim Dale read it as green eyes for the audio version -- probably just a mistake on his part (or an early draft that got changed). Ron has blue eyes (I can't recall the reference). Based on this, I'd bet none of the Weasleys have green eyes. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 23 13:41:55 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:41:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Mysteries of McGonagall References: <47.26977b6.2724ce6e@aol.com> <39F37A22.4A245B4D@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39F44023.579EB9A1@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4459 Hi --- heidi wrote: > (although if he was born late, then he could've been concieved on > Halloween, exactly 2 years before his parents died, which would be > weird, but I wouldn't put it past JKR...) Well, there seem to be lots of Halloween references & important events happening on Halloween. My thought has always been that Harry was conceived on Halloween & was just a bit late -- first babies are late more often than not. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 23 14:17:42 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:17:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers References: <39F39705.CF1BC0D1@texas.net> <01b901c03cb0$2bcf7220$27c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39F44886.97D4A148@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4460 Hi -- Caius Marcius wrote: > Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would > have > known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on > the > Map. But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just "slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have prevented himself from showing up on it. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From theresabroderick at earthlink.net Mon Oct 23 10:25:49 2000 From: theresabroderick at earthlink.net (Theresa Broderick) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:25:49 +0100 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <000e01c03cdb$9f60cec0$e5142126@scorch> No: HPFGUIDX 4461 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 16:21:45 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:21:45 -0500 Subject: Halloween Vignette, Invite the magic of Harry Potter into your home this Halloween Message-ID: <000901c03d0d$58b06bc0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4462 http://www.homestore.com/decorate/plan/howtos/misc/harrypotter.asp?source=a2lm5tdt067 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 16:21:45 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:21:45 -0500 Subject: Halloween Vignette, Invite the magic of Harry Potter into your home this Halloween Message-ID: <000e01c03d0d$58ca5c60$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4463 http://www.homestore.com/decorate/plan/howtos/misc/harrypotter.asp?source=a2lm5tdt067 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 15:45:52 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:45:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re: animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an animagus? References: <8t0788+98d0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <026f01c03d08$54b2a380$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4464 Hmm. Good question. BTW, I noticed no one's said a snake yet~grins. Prolly a cat. I'd be a good Jellicle cat. :) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:19 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] re: animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an animagus? Well, folks, we have a long haul ahead of us... If you were to become an animagus/a, what would you LIKE to become? Is that different than what you think you WOULD become? What would you be afraid you MIGHT become? Susan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 23 15:21:58 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:21:58 -0000 Subject: Scabbers In-Reply-To: <39F44886.97D4A148@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8t1l2m+i8gg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4465 > Caius Marcius wrote: > > > Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would > > have > > known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on > > the > > Map. > > But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just > "slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says > that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have > prevented himself from showing up on it. I think it's entirely logical that they can "remove" themselves from the map, but my guess is that it has to be done intentionally and it has to be maintained. At what point would Scabbers/Peter have realized that Harry had the map and started removing himself from it? Once he did, though, it would be one more thing to keep track of and as things got frantic toward the end and he was being dragged along with Ron into the passage, his panic may have made him drop it. Either that or he might have figured it didn't matter right then because he didn't know that anyone had the map other than Harry. It sure seems to me that the creators of the map would have made it possible for they themselves to NOT be seen by it. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 15:45:38 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:45:38 -0000 Subject: Chapter 16 and Fleur/Viktor discussion, Spanish book 4 Message-ID: <8t1mf2+9kt5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4466 Hello folks, my Chapter 16 discussion is done but I left it at home, so I will post it tonight for you guys. I'm still working on Fleur/Viktor, so I will do my best to have it for you by around Wednesday. An interesting story: I joined a Spanish HP club the other day (Book 4 has not come out yet). Someone came right out and announced who died and how. What if someone who hadn't read it yet didn't want to know? I yelled at him. :) ~Kaitlin From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 15:47:05 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:47:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grindelwald References: <8suubd+590t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <027e01c03d08$954a96a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4467 Didn't Jo state she took alot of the names off maps? If this is a city, then it was on the map, grins! Sorry for the one liners--I have been relatively quiet. And I apologize for falling asleep during the chat yesterday to anyone who tried to talk to me--migraine. Thanks Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Flanagan To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:41 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grindelwald Grindelwald is a major tourist destination for skiiing in Switzerland. Hesse himself lived there. JKR might have been aware of this, or it could have been an independent coinage (like "Muggles"). --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Warmsley" wrote: > I was reading Herman Hesse's Gertrude (which is excellent), when > the principal character goes off on holiday around Western > Europe with his mother... after visiting Constance, Zurich, > Interlaken, they wind up in... Grindelwald, which, if I'm not > mistaken, is the name of the dark wizard defeated by Dumbledore > in 1945. Anyone able to shed any light? > > Jeremy eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 16:38:47 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:38:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers References: <39F39705.CF1BC0D1@texas.net> <01b901c03cb0$2bcf7220$27c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39F46997.996A2FED@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4468 Caius Marcius wrote: > Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would have > known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on the > Map. Would he have done this as a matter of course? So far as we know he knows, it was confiscated years ago. Or has he seen Fred and George with it? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 16:48:21 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:48:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers References: <39F39705.CF1BC0D1@texas.net> <01b901c03cb0$2bcf7220$27c44b0c@cq5wu> <39F44886.97D4A148@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F46BD4.8BC4EA89@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4469 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just > "slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says > that the "Map never lies." aAAAGH. I forgot about this. I go back to my original ingenious analysis of why nobody noticed before. Can anybody give me anyplace in the book where Ron is, during the school year, carrying Scabbers around as a matter of course? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 16:40:43 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:40:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] We figured it out! References: <39F100FC.60FC97E9@texas.net> <01ed01c03cb1$0341dd60$27c44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39F46A0B.F8A2EFA8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4470 Caius Marcius wrote: > Very ingenious, but in addition, if I may repeat what I just posted in > response to another post, wouldn't Peter, as one of the original authors of > the Marauders' Map, know how to circumvent its ID functions? I'd answered that I doubted he'd do it as a general thing, but he might have seen Fred and George with it. Soooo---could he have done this "blocking" spell as a rat? Or did he transform one dark night and do it? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 16:53:27 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:53:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary References: <8t07uc+4nbc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F46D07.7835B9A2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4471 Susan McGee wrote: > I DO think it's a major faux pax/gap in the story that no one > noticed that Ron was carrying around someone named Peter Pettigrew > all the time or that PP was in the dormitory... Well, it's a weak defense, but I think Ron doesn't carry him around during the times the map is being used by someone who'd know the name, and also I don't think anyone would use it to check their home dorm. > Also, the construction of the Marauder's Map must have been > an incredible piece of magic for young wizard's...James Potter, > et aliae must have been brilliant.....not only do they become > animagi, but they construct this map, AND James would have been > "disappointed" had Harry not snuck out of the castle. But was the map created while they were still at Hogwarts? If it was, they were senior students. I'm not denigrating their brilliance; they did become Animagi, too, but they could easily have made the map after they graduated. > I really hope she does a prequel.. Me, too. But hope is dim, right now, since she said she'd be through with this world. > And then the construction of Riddle's diary..another major piece > of magic which lends itself to all kinds of speculation.. Did he say when he made the diary, either? > while he was "awake" in CoS, could he communicate with Lucius Malfoy? > BTW, when first I read the books CoS was my least favorite, but > now I find myself returning to it more and more.... Me, too; I'm rereading it to see if I can get my nagging little problems resolved. --Amanda From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Oct 23 16:51:57 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:51:57 -0000 Subject: animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an animagus? In-Reply-To: <026f01c03d08$54b2a380$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8t1qbd+t12s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4472 I would want to be a bird (childhood fantasy carry-over of wanting to fly with wings). Not a "special" bird like a swan or a vulture, but a common, ordinary bird like a robin, a starling or a crow, so I can fly around without being noticed. ;-) Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > Hmm. > > Good question. BTW, I noticed no one's said a snake yet~grins. > > Prolly a cat. I'd be a good Jellicle cat. :) > > Dee > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Susan McGee > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:19 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] re: animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an animagus? > > > Well, folks, we have a long haul ahead of us... > > If you were to become an animagus/a, what would you LIKE to become? > Is that different than what you think you WOULD become? > What would you be afraid you MIGHT become? > > Susan > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 17:06:23 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:06:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: scariest scene References: <8t0aku+i9h5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F4700E.DBDE5B6D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4473 Susan McGee wrote: > I found the scene where Voldemort kills the old Muggle at the > beginning of GoF scary. And the scene where Harry is praying that > V will drown (at the end of GoF). The scene where the Dementors > are surrounding Sirius and Harry is terrifying. But if I had to > put my finger on it...probably the execution of Buckbeak was the > worst for me... Well, the one that actually gave me a chill, a physical chill, was when Cedric died, because it was so true to life. Too many villains waste time talking, in movies and stuff, to let the audience "get ready" or to build the anticipation. But I think a real evil person would simply proceed with what's to be done, and kill the spare. Boom. Done. No warning. As a reader, I went through the same confusion, denial, and disbelief that Harry did in the action, and since the action just zipped right along, didn't have time to mentally address it, so there was a realistic lingering shock. It was incredibly effective and affected me more than anything else I can think of in the books. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 17:02:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:02:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Godric's Hollow/what happened (long) References: <8svnff+3l4t@eGroups.com> <39F3AB0C.3EA6CE21@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F46F2D.C8871E11@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4474 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > We were speculating the other day about whether or not priori > incantatum regurgitates the last spells cast by the wand itself or the > last spells cast by the wand's owner, were we not? It's the spells cast by the wand, not the owner. Harry's wand was used by Barty Jr. to send up the Dark Mark, and obligingly regurgitated the Mark when the Priori Incantatem spell (*not* the effect) was cast on it. If it were only the spells cast by the owner, the Mark would not have been regurgiated. > Hagrid might have accepted the motorcycle but would have likely known > that he couldn't turn up with Harry in Privet Drive in broad daylight; > therefore, his arrival would have to wait until the following night. He > might have laid low with the motorcycle, observing what all was going on > while he was stuck waiting anyway. The mind reels, imagining what Hagrid would have fed to little Harry during the day. --Amanda From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Oct 23 17:13:55 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:13:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an animagus? Message-ID: <20001023171355.9273.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4475 King cormorant, without a doubt, for my part. --- milz skrev: > I would want to be a bird (childhood fantasy > carry-over of wanting to > fly with wings). Not a "special" bird like a swan or > a vulture, but a > common, ordinary bird like a robin, a starling or a > crow, so I can > fly around without being noticed. > > ;-) Milz > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" > > wrote: > > Hmm. > > > > Good question. BTW, I noticed no one's said a > snake yet~grins. > > > > Prolly a cat. I'd be a good Jellicle cat. :) > > > > Dee > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Susan McGee > > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:19 PM > > Subject: [HPforGrownups] re: animagi - what > would you be? > formerly > Re: Dumbledore an animagus? > > > > > > Well, folks, we have a long haul ahead of us... > > > > If you were to become an animagus/a, what would > you LIKE to > become? > > Is that different than what you think you WOULD > become? > > What would you be afraid you MIGHT become? > > > > Susan > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to: > > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 17:12:46 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:12:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: English/US differences and Phoenix. References: <972264882.25613@egroups.com> <39F3D673.57A62C72@indy.net> Message-ID: <39F4718D.3A08EB3D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4476 "Brooks A. Rowlett" wrote: > Usage: Don't forget the fun stuff: sweaters/jumpers, lemon drop/sherbet lemon, truck/lorry, etc. > the Phoenix is > extraordinarily rare - in fact, unique - there is only ONE phoenix at a > time. Yes, although it's considered a type of animal, not a singular one, in these books. It's become simply another breed of magical animal in most modern games and books. Usage changes, like the usage of "unique" itself--which means one-of-a-kind, but which modern usage increasingly accepts as simply a superlative, hence "very unique" and other such redundancies. > (What is the plural of phoenix? Phoenices, if you're anal about correct endings. I use "indices" too. Phoenixes if you're not. > If there IS only one at a time, > is a plural even relevant?) No, not for the Phoenix, but in the books it is, and I think she uses phoenixes. Standardization to English usage. > The Phoenix, since it is reborn from its > own ashes, needs no mate or gender. Yup. Although the construction of our language pretty much demands one, since "it" seems pejorative when used for any living thing we've gotten attached to or that seems to be a real personality. Hasn't Fawkes been referred to as a him? --Amanda From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 23 17:22:12 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:22:12 +0100 Subject: Oterrey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> Message-ID: <012601c03d15$e42f8160$1369883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4477 > Exeter, where Jo attended university. Where did you fiond this info? I am Exeter alumni myself and I cannot believe that noone at the universuty has ever mentuioned the fact that she attended. Normally writing by an Exeter student is showcased in the front window of the bookshop, splashed all over Exepose (Student newspaper, again similar integrity levels to The Sun) and generally bragged about everywhere, but HP never. I think I may have to query this with the Alumni Officer. I am convinced Oterrey St catchpole & St Mary are one and the same. Chudleigh mind you is a good 90minutes drive from Ottery St Mary although that is not an unreasonable distance to travel for a match. Heather, using her Exeter sign off. Exeter, probably the best university in the world. From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 16:56:26 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:56:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hagrid's wand References: <8t088m+famb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F46DBA.FB8FA18A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4478 Susan McGee wrote: > > Amanda Lewinski wrote: > LewAnski, LewAnski! Lewinsky is a whole different person, famous for entirely different things than I care to be publicly identified by. > OR, do > wands ONLY go to graduates of Hogwarts --- and the students have > them on probation? Do the drivers of the Knight Bus (our > representatives of the Wizard proletariat) have wands? I was thinking something along the lines of only fully qualified wizards get them. We know underage wizards can't use them outside school. Whatever constitutes a fully qualified wizard, Hagrid isn't it, and if Dumbledore asked him not to do magic, well, Hagrid's a loyal sort. He might just be opting to not get a wand. Or he might know if he did Dumbledore would hear of it. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 23 16:59:12 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:59:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What that book title might also refer to References: <8t08o6+bo6p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F46E60.338F4CEE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4479 Rita Winston wrote: > the famous Tyrian purple dye (made from vast quantities of > rotted, dead, ocean molluscs) what a charming description of one of my favorite colors, thanks > Egypt is where Bill works for Gringotts as a cursebreaker, whatever a > cursebreaker does, and there used to be old rumors that one HP book > would have sections in Egypt, perhaps related to Bill's job. Didn't JKR just say in one of the multitudinous recent chats and/or interviews that book 5 will be set (or a good deal of it) in a new locale? This is why I thought the homeland of the Phoenix would be significant, and if it's Egypt, sounds like a done deal to me. --Amanda, yep, that bait tasted great, just lemme get rid of this line, here From Changeling at darcy.inka.de Mon Oct 23 18:51:07 2000 From: Changeling at darcy.inka.de (Christina Gross) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:51:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary References: <8t07uc+4nbc@eGroups.com> <39F46D07.7835B9A2@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4480 On 23.10.2000 at 11:53:27 Amanda Lewanski wrote: >But was the map created while they were still at Hogwarts? If it >was, they >were senior students. I'm not denigrating their brilliance; they did >become >Animagi, too, but they could easily have made the map after they >graduated. Once they'd left Hogwarts, what would they need the map for? >Did he say when he made the diary, either? I assumed Riddle preserved himself in the diary as he was when he made it. He realized he had better not open the Chamber again while he was still at Hogwarts because Dumbledore was already suspecting him. He made the diary so that he would be able to guide somebody to the Chamber. Dumbledore tells Harry at the end of CoS that Tom Riddle was probably Hogwarts' most brilliant student to date. CoS was the book that got me hooked on the series. After reading PS/SS I thought good book, but way over-hyped. I only discovered Harry Potter this year when the marketing frenzy had started already. Greetings Christina "A room without books is like a body without a soul." -Cicero Check out our book and movie reviews at http://sites.inka.de/darwin From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 23 17:59:10 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:59:10 -0000 Subject: Godric's Hollow/what happened (long) In-Reply-To: <39F46F2D.C8871E11@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t1u9e+6i3n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4481 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > We were speculating the other day about whether or not priori > > incantatum regurgitates the last spells cast by the wand itself or the > > last spells cast by the wand's owner, were we not? > > It's the spells cast by the wand, not the owner. Harry's wand was used by > Barty Jr. to send up the Dark Mark, and obligingly regurgitated the Mark > when the Priori Incantatem spell (*not* the effect) was cast on it. If it > were only the spells cast by the owner, the Mark would not have been > regurgiated. Also, the murder of Cedric was done my Wormtail, and that spell was also regurgitated. > > > > Hagrid might have accepted the motorcycle but would have likely known > > that he couldn't turn up with Harry in Privet Drive in broad daylight; > > therefore, his arrival would have to wait until the following night. He > > might have laid low with the motorcycle, observing what all was going on > > while he was stuck waiting anyway. > > The mind reels, imagining what Hagrid would have fed to little Harry during > the day. I really think Hagrid took Harry to Dumbledore. I don't mean that HAGRID had been instrumental in creating the charms etc. that protect Harry even now. Hagrid would have turned Harry over to Dumbledore and his team (maybe other teachers from Hogwarts) and then waited around, maybe standing guard. Now that I say that, it would seem logical that they would have taken Harry to Hogwarts for this, since it's the safest place (even safer than Gringotts!). I think the Order of the Pheonix is the old crowd, a group of those who most steadfastly fought against Voldemort, which included James and Lily as well as Lupin, Arabella Figg, etc. James and Lily were working as part of that group and in their capacity in the Ministry of Magic to create the final defense. When they died, it fell to the rest of the group to try to finish their work, which meant protecting Harry. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Oct 23 17:28:43 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:28:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary Message-ID: <20001023172843.11648.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4482 It must have been - George and Fred filched it from one of Filch's drawers at his ofice (it was labelled /confiscated and highly dangerous/). I have trouble seeing the Marauders making such a map after graduation, and then just give it to Filch. I also doubt (very, very much) that there were any other children of the Mauraders that could have taken the map to school and lost it to Filch. It being manufactured by the MArauders while at school is what seems to fit the facts best for me. Do we know that it is such a very difficult thing to make, by the way? Dyr fe, Dyr Frendar, Dyr sjlv, Det same Men eitt veit eg dyr aldri Dom om dauden kvar. [snip] > But was the map created while they were still at > Hogwarts? If it was, they > were senior students. I'm not denigrating their > brilliance; they did become > Animagi, too, but they could easily have made the > map after they graduated. [snip] _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 23 18:15:58 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:15:58 +0100 Subject: JK Rowling at Exeter and movie news Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4483 Heather wrote: "Where did you fiond this info? I am Exeter alumni myself and I cannot believe that noone at the universuty has ever mentuioned the fact that she attended." The following is from the Exeter University Quarterly Newsletter (link: http://www.ex.ac.uk/admin/extrel/publications/extra/spring00.htm): "HARRY Potter author JK Rowling is one of the well-known faces who will be receiving an honorary degree from the University in July. Ms Rowling is an Exeter graduate, having read French with Greek and Roman Studies here from 1983 to 1986, and will receive her honorary degree on 14 July." Heather wrote: "Exeter, probably the best university in the world." The Carlsberg rip off. I would have thought they would have found a new slogan by now - they were using that when I applied (which seems like ages ago). Movie news. They have been filming at the Bodleian library today and yesterday and have now cleared up from there. They still have a ton of stuff in Christ Church College so I guess they will be filming there soon. I have managed to miss out on all this - been stuck in my room trying to get rid of freshers' flu (why does it happen that you fall ill just when something interesting is going on - at least it has got me out of doing any work!). The security people have been annoying students, members of the public and seemingly some of the cast. A couple of friends (female) have complained about some of the comments made to them when they were wandering around in lycra before, and after, they had been rowing. I think that is all for now Simon From aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca Mon Oct 23 18:21:21 2000 From: aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca (Angela Boyko) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:21:21 -0300 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers References: <39F39705.CF1BC0D1@texas.net> <01b901c03cb0$2bcf7220$27c44b0c@cq5wu> <39F44886.97D4A148@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F481A1.F0A6BFD7@nb.sympatico.ca> No: HPFGUIDX 4484 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Caius Marcius wrote: > > > Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would > > have > > known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on > > the > > Map. > > But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just > "slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says > that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have > prevented himself from showing up on it. Perhaps the authors of the map were only visible to each other ... the map wouldn't have lied, but concealed Peter's presence to everyone but a fellow author? Angela "Hi, I'm new" Boyko -- Behold Angela the Brave! ICQ: 65588507 New Brunswick, Canada, eh? AIM: angelamermaid http://www.geocities.com/ochfd42/index.html "Dreams are illustrations from the book your soul is writing about you." - Marsha Norman From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 23 18:44:04 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:44:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Oterrey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> <012601c03d15$e42f8160$1369883e@default> Message-ID: <39F486F4.D2CAE1D8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4485 Hi -- Heather Edmonds wrote: > > Exeter, where Jo attended university. > > Where did you fiond this info? I am Exeter alumni myself and I cannot > believe that noone at the universuty has ever mentuioned the fact that > she attended. It's in all the official JKR timelines in magazine articles; she's mentioned it in scads of interviews. It's pretty much common knowledge. Marc Shapiro's horrible unauthorized bio didn't even mess up this fact from her life. I think she was there from 1983 - 1987 or so (off the top of my head). Yeah, that must be right because she's 3 mths older than I am & I started university in 1984. This will be in the FAQ on JKR, which is one of the ones that's finished more or less. > I am convinced Oterrey St catchpole & St Mary are one and the same. > Chudleigh mind you is a good 90minutes drive from Ottery St Mary > although > that is not an unreasonable distance to travel for a match. Well, it would likely be the closest professional Quidditch franchise, right? That would be my assumption anyway. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Oct 23 18:51:54 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:51:54 -0000 Subject: catching up (long) Message-ID: <8t21cb+10drq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4486 So many posts so little time. Thanks to Peg for another delightful essay on the virtues. I guess I can't blame her for ignoring all the Snape stuff. Imagine if all the theories were true at once, ie he's a gay, bisexual Jewish vampire animagus! He would need an extra house Elf to carry his emotional/ cultural baggage. (No offense to any gay, bisexual Jewish vampire animagi on the list!) It is interesting that people keep noticing parallels between the magical/muggle experience and the Jewish experience. The American TV series Bewitched *was* definitely based on the Jewish experience. I think the universal appeal of that show and the Potter books shows that the dilemma of "uneasy coexistence" is something most of us are familiar with, no matter what sub group we identify with. My husband's family is from the Borders region and we are constantly finding parallels with the Scottish experience also. Then there are the crypto- Jews of Portugal. I wonder if JKR is aware of being influenced by any of this? It might be something to ask next time we are collecting questions. I am the one who posted the theory that Fawkes was the reason Dumble could trust Snape. You can imagine the Trelawney moment I had when I read JKR's announcement of the title for the next book I thought I would faint. Believe it or not, (insert Twilight Zone music) that was the working title of my book 4 3/4 fanfic (almost wrote fan *fix*). It was to be the name of the group working against Voldemort.. Has anyone noticed how certain witches and wizards seem able to coordinate their spellcasting in a strange way? Ron, Harry, and Hermione all attack Snape at the same time in POA. In GoF, they, plus Fred and George, attack Malfoy and his gang,on the train, apparently without conscious thought or decision. Other examples could be the coordinated stun-spell attack used by the ministry in GoF against the DE's at the World Cup and Dumbledore, Snape and McGonnagal blasting through the door in GoF to rescue Harry. Mrs. Weasley needn't have booked the taxis at meter rates. About thirty years ago Mom, Dad and I got stood up by Hertz while in London- - no rental car! We were supposed to go to a garden party in Sussex and on to Heathrow later in the day. My Dad walked out into the street and made a deal with a taxi driver, who took us to the party and the airport for $100 US. Oh, and I'd like to be a bird. Or a dragon. But I'd probably be a chipmunk or something. Pippin From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 23 19:02:09 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:02:09 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Otterey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> <012601c03d15$e42f8160$1369883e@default> <39F486F4.D2CAE1D8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <029401c03d23$bf977de0$1369883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4487 Apologies for my appalling spelling in the last post. It was dreadful even for me. I'd like to blame my stinking cold but I can't see how I can. It was carelessness and more haste etc. Hangs head in shame. Actually what clinched the Exeter location for me was the portkey from Stoats Hill which I think is Stoke Hill, which belongs to the National Forestry Commission. The description fits and it would also fit with the long walk from Ottery its just behind the uni campus which is about 7 miles from Ottery. Sorry Penny. I've just realised I might have sounded disbelieving. I was but not of you. I was just amazed that in the three years I attended Exeter no mention was made of JKR attending. Stupid University. I very rarely read magazines no time or spare cash and if I manage to read the London headline and catch 9 o'clock news I'm lucky. Consequently I know very little about JKR. Just to illustrate why I think I should have known that fact. 1996/7 My first year HP & PS published 1997/8 My second year HP & CS published 1998/9 My third and final year HP & PoA published. No mention of JKR in that time ever. Truly shocking don't you think? They should have been plugging her stuff for all they were worth. Even this year they failed to stock GoF (I know I visited this summer) A big table with all her books plus suitable info seems appropriate to me. Its especially galling when I consider the effort they put into plugging one of my lecturers poor efforts. But then of course it was achildrens book and they aren't as important as academic tomes are they. Heather, outraged. From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 23 19:33:27 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:33:27 -0000 Subject: What that book title might also refer to In-Reply-To: <39F46E60.338F4CEE@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t23q7+b09j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4488 >Didn't JKR just say in one of the multitudinous recent chats and/or >interviews that book 5 will be set (or a good deal of it) in a new >locale? I remember a long time ago, I think it was right after the second book was published, Rowling she said something about a land of giants who rode on dragons, but she wouldn't get around to it until book 5. From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 23 19:56:43 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:56:43 -0000 Subject: Scabbers In-Reply-To: <39F481A1.F0A6BFD7@nb.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <8t255r+1nn3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4489 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Angela Boyko wrote: > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > Caius Marcius wrote: > > > > > Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would > > > have > > > known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on > > > the > > > Map. > > > > But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just > > "slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says > > that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have > > prevented himself from showing up on it. > > Perhaps the authors of the map were only visible to each other ... the > map wouldn't have lied, but concealed Peter's presence to everyone but a > fellow author? > > Angela "Hi, I'm new" Boyko Wow! Ingenous theory, I like it! It fits in with the personality of the Marauders as teenagers, fits in with the plot, and clears up what seems to be a plot hole. Welcome to the group Angela, and keep the brilliant deductions coming! -- Joywitch From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 20:17:40 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:17:40 -0000 Subject: HP as a play? In-Reply-To: <8su12u+cf41@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t26d4+r6fb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4490 > Surely someone, I think it was Scott, wanted to put HP on the stage > back when we were in Yahoo! Yes it was me! As a budding thespian at hear I just HAD to comment on this! HP would be GREAT on the stage... I must go back to one of my favourite plays to illustrate my ideas. The Lion King was actually a pretty good Disney movie, one of my favs at least, anyway it was much better on stage. I was suprised, in fact, at just how good it was. Now TLK was very stylized, using both the human aspect of the actors as well as the amimal themes of the costumes to convey the story. However most of the HP characters are human so that's not really the issue. It's just that I think the creative mind can put anything on stage (and I'm using Julie Taymor and TLK as an example). If they had the right people, both writer and composers, directors, actors, (wouldn't I love to try out) producers etc...the end result would be fantastic! Another thing about this is whether or not you're talking about a musical as opposed to a play. HP would be a good musical to.... I can see it now. As Harry is growing up at the beggining of PS (NOT SS please) he comes out and sings... It's the hardknock life for me, It's the hardknock life for me, Uncle Vernon, He's so mean, And that git Dudley, He's not lean, It's the Harknock life! or in CoS TR could sing "Memories" you know from Cats... "...Let the Memory live again." OR erm, you're all probably really tired of this post... BUT I'll keep thinking about how to stage Quidditch. Scott Who is currently helping small children w/ a theatre production of their own. They sure are adorable, and OFF key. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 20:39:10 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:39:10 -0000 Subject: Birds, pretty much OT (was Re: Scary Things and Kids) In-Reply-To: <8svg46+9kus@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t27le+iucj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4491 I have pretty much gotten over it, > although to this day I am appalled when I see a photo of someone > standing inside a big flock of them feeding them breadcrumbs. > Well as the typical London tourist I HAD to feed the birds in Trafalgar Square. Of course when there are thousands of birds, and only one you, it doesn't quite work out that way. I do, however have some cute pictures of myself covering in the feathery beasts...and I like birds, I really do. To tie that back to HP- wouldn't it be a good idea to, at the start of the movie, during the owl scences have some land amidst the pigeons of Trafalgar Square? (and it would be a landmark that Americans could identify with England...) Scott > -- Joywitch, who does not have any pet birds and instead has 2 cats > who keep the little flying maniacs away From managirl19 at aol.com Mon Oct 23 20:42:54 2000 From: managirl19 at aol.com (managirl19 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:42:54 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an a... Message-ID: <6.d0721ba.2725fcce@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4492 What a question, and it's so hard to decide what animal when there are so many... can anyone think of an animal that is two faced, or changes personalities often *g* I think it would be cool to turn into a mythica animal, like a Gryffin, or a Unicorn, or something that of course would only exist in the wizarding world... I'm not sure what exactly. Would fairies be animals? No, I'd definetly turn into a Dragon if I could... and nice shiny metallic green one... -------------------------------------------------------------- Allegria Winselvern at FanFiction.net e-mail: managirl19 at aol.com Contacts AOL Instant Messenger : managirl19 MSN Messenger: psycho_mana at hotmail.com ICQ # 84665215 Screen Name: Mana Yahoo Messenger: psycho_mana Napster: PlatinumGarbage Websites Mana's Basement* Wizarding Bulgaria and Durmstrang Institute* Virtual Harry Potter Beauxbatons The Unofficial Harry Potter Fan Club Encyclopedia Potterica *Websites that are mine From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Oct 23 20:51:01 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 21:51:01 +0100 Subject: My animagus/nightmares (OT)/Marauder's Map Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001023205101.008e1714@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4493 ANIMAGUS What Animagus would I be? Well, apart from the rusty old Mechanimagus you see before you - I would like to transform into a large but cheeky horse called Pumpkin - then I could join the circus and express myself to music. - I would probably turn into a brontosaurus and be really clumsy and conspicuous, but mostly harmless. - I fear I would turn into a sponge and end up in someone's bathtub. ALLAYING NIGHTMARES (OT) When I babysit my nieces, I find that tiring them out is the best way to ensure they get a good night's sleep. Coincidentally, they try the same technique on me and it works a treat. When I was a small child, my mother always used to say, "Night, night. Sleep tight. Don't let the bed bugs bite". I don't recall thinking, "What bed bugs? Are they lethal? Gemmeouttahere!" - there was just something comforting about the rhyme. As a slightly larger child (8 or 9) I was allowed to watch old horror movies with my Mum (my Dad was always too scared to watch them) and when it was bedtime I would imagine that every half-lit object in the room was looming over me and about to devour me with sharp, pointy little teeth. When I was older still, and past that nightmare stage, I remember singing "I Can Sing A Rainbow" to my baby brother on a regular basis. It seemed to be the only thing that would send him off to sleep. These days, unfortunately, my rendition of the song is more like an alarm clock than a lullaby. How we change with age. MARAUDER'S MAP Okay, back on topic: Regarding the Marauder's Map, we know that it can think for itself, because Harry recalls Arthur's saying "Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where it keeps its brain" and later it hints that he should say "Dissendium" to open the entrance to the tunnel. So, can we trust its information; is it obligingly displaying every living thing within its confines? It's also interesting that Harry didn't see himself appear on the map until he was about halfway down the third-floor corridor. This suggests that, perhaps, the map scans for new life forms to display and doesn't pick up on them immediately. Perhaps it only displays some people/animals? Perhaps it just overlooked Pettigrew in the form of a rat? Finally, how often did anyone look at the map to be able to see Ron/Scabbers before Lupin spotted Pettigrew accompanying Harry and Ron? Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Oct 23 21:47:09 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 23 Oct 2000 14:47:09 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an a... Message-ID: <20001023214709.9297.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4494 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 23 22:05:24 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:05:24 -0000 Subject: German magazine with Harry Potter pics In-Reply-To: <007b01c03481$d557cae0$c4e8cac3@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <8t2cn4+tkp9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4495 > Unfortunately, I can't take the school library copy out, and so can't scan it - I was hoping someone else on the list could. How about photocopying them? Ok, I know they won't be in color then, but at least the photocopy could then be scanned. While on the subject of Germany... ---- Tuesday 17th October And the Financial Times reports that German retail rules have another victim - the Harry Potter books. German booksellers wanted to copy the midnight party idea used in the UK launch of the latest title last Friday night as a celebration of the latest success and to further promote it. But in Germany shops cannot open by law beyond 8 pm - and booksellers had to re-organize their parties to make them private. Source: Ecademy.com WeeklEnews(tm) http://www.Ecademy.com - The E-business Education Network ---- And on the subject of GOF... I'm up to chapter 18 in producing an ASCII version. Anyone want to be a proof reader/corrector? OCR is not 100% accruate, so mistakes need correcting. Nick From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 23 22:10:09 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:10:09 -0000 Subject: JK Rowling at Exeter and movie news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8t2d01+8h2b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4496 > Movie news. > They have been filming at the Bodleian library today and yesterday and have now cleared up from there. The man with the crane was right then... he was planning to leave by 7am Monday morning. >They still have a ton of stuff in Christ Church College so I guess they will be filming there soon. I have managed to miss > out on all this - been stuck in my room trying to get rid of freshers' flu (why does it happen that you fall ill just when something interesting is going on - at least it has got me out of doing any work!). Hope you get better soon - real soon, as would be nice to get some photos of the cast! > The security people have been annoying students, members of the public and seemingly some of the cast. A couple of friends (female) have complained about some of the comments made to them when they were wandering around in lycra before, and after, they had been rowing. Security were quite well behaved when I was there - I guess they must have had enough of it, and have started showing off! Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 23 22:18:22 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:18:22 -0000 Subject: Oterrey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter In-Reply-To: <012601c03d15$e42f8160$1369883e@default> Message-ID: <8t2dfe+22k7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4497 > I am convinced Oterrey St catchpole & St Mary are one and the same. > Chudleigh mind you is a good 90minutes drive from Ottery St Mary although that is not an unreasonable distance to travel for a match. Were you walking? Maybe you have the wrong St Mary! Ottery St May to Churligh is 20.4 Miles - as seen below from The AA. --------- From: Ottery St Mary,Devon To: Chudleigh,Devon Total Distance: 20.4 Miles Total Time: 0 hr 25 min Acc Dist Road Route Ottery St Mary, Devon Follow signs Exeter B3174 2.4 2.4 B3174 Junction with A30/B3180 ("Daisymount") At roundabout take 2nd exit (signposted Exeter) to join A30 8.7 6.3 A30 Junction with A3015/M5 Branch left (signposted Plymouth) to join Motorway M5 9.8 1.1 M5 Junction 30 (A376/A379) (EXETER SERVICE AREA) Forward (signposted Plymouth) 13.6 3.8 Junction 31 (A30/A38) Forward A38 leaving Motorway 15.1 1.5 A38 Kennford Services 15.7 0.6 Junction with A380 Take right-hand lanes to keep forward & ascend 16.9 1.2 Junction for Exeter Race Course 18.5 1.6 Little Chef Restaurant (Kennford South) 18.9 0.4 Junction with B3344 Branch left B3344 (signposted Chudleigh) 20.4 1.5 B3344 Chudleigh Section time 0:26, Total time 0:26 --------- Does that make it better - Chudleigh is quite near, at least to Ottery St Mary. Nick From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 22:05:58 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:05:58 +0200 Subject: The REAL reason for that error in GoF References: <1.5.4.32.20001022053149.008f84a0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <00b101c03d3d$6cd0da60$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4498 > Someone in the group had > got hold of a proof copy of the book with that title on it. However, when > the book came out, it was called, tah-DAH!: "...Goblet of Fire" and we all > sat around tutting and looking foolish. Good grief! Don't tell me ... someone jumped one of the editors, stashed him in a convienient waredrobe, whiped up a polyjuice potion and snuck into Bloomsbury's HQ in disguise. Aftwerwards they blasted the poor guy with memory charm, which saved appearances, but lead him to the now infamous editing slip up in GoF. So who did it?? (BTW, this groups never ceases to amaze me!) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 22:18:12 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:18:12 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Grindelwald References: <01c03c33$22b59ca0$901d073e@warmsley> Message-ID: <00d901c03d3f$227e2420$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4499 > I was reading Herman Hesse's Gertrude (which is excellent), when > the principal character goes off on holiday around Western > Europe with his mother... after visiting Constance, Zurich, > Interlaken, they wind up in... Grindelwald, which, if I'm not > mistaken, is the name of the dark wizard defeated by Dumbledore > in 1945. Anyone able to shed any light? Hmm. Well, I've finally got a claim to fame: My father-in-law is taxi driver in Grindelwald (a village a kilometer or two from Interlaken, CH). But if you think I'm going to give any information about his customers ... Just remember what happened last year to the tourists who went snooping about and canyoning on the border between Interlaken and Grindelwald: 20 kadaveras. Dead men don't talk, and neither do live goats. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 23 22:45:43 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:45:43 -0000 Subject: Otterey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter In-Reply-To: <029401c03d23$bf977de0$1369883e@default> Message-ID: <8t2f2n+rdsb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4500 > Actually what clinched the Exeter location for me was the portkey from Stoats Hill which I think is Stoke Hill, which belongs to the National Forestry Commission. I've found a place in Devon known as Stoke Hill http://www.devon.gov.uk/library/locstudy/gazsto45.html http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=294300&Y=94300&A=Y&Z=1 but I don't think that can be the place. This however looks more promising: ( http://www.exeter.gov.uk/tourism/countryside/countryside.html ) --- Stoke Woods This woodland is situated on the northern edge of the City. Part of the wood is owned by the Forestry Commission and jointly cared for with the Exeter City Council. There are waymarked footpaths to follow and viewpoints across the Exe Valley. Or further information contact the Forestry Authority on 01392 832262. --- If only they gave a grid reference! This looks good though: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=293516&Y=95032&A=Y&Z=3 And this came from www.romanmap.com ----- Stoke Hill (sx9295)) is above and opposite the junction of the Culm with the Exe, Cullompton (st0107) is upriver. Culm (on) Culm 938 derives from OW culm W cwlwm Co colm and colmen 'a knot'. Margary makes no mention of roads connecting either of these forts to the next entry Isca Dumnoniorum Exeter (sx9192), or the previous entry Verteuia North Tawton (sx6699). ----- Not that it says much, but at least it's a reference to the place! > The description fits and it would also fit with the > long walk from Ottery its just behind the uni campus which is about 7 miles from Ottery. > Sorry Penny. I've just realised I might have sounded disbelieving. I was but not of you. I was just amazed that in the three years I attended Exeter no mention was made of JKR attending. Stupid University. I very rarely read magazines no time or spare cash and if I manage to read the London headline and catch 9 o'clock news I'm lucky. You are behind the times... it's the 10 o'clock news now! See... you can't have much spare time. > Just to illustrate why I think I should have known that fact. > 1996/7 My first year HP & PS published > 1997/8 My second year HP & CS published > 1998/9 My third and final year HP & PoA published. > No mention of JKR in that time ever. Truly shocking don't you think? No... the books didn't really become famous until 1998/99, and you would have been studying hard then. >They should have been plugging her stuff for all they were worth. Even this year they failed to stock GoF (I know I visited this summer) A big table with all her books plus suitable info seems appropriate to me. Its especially galling when I consider the effort they put into plugging one of my lecturers poor efforts. But then of course it was achildrens book and they aren't as important as academic tomes are they. I'm not saying a word (re 'it was a childrens book'). Nick (who is not a child) From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Mon Oct 23 22:53:42 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:53:42 -0000 Subject: The REAL reason for that error in GoF In-Reply-To: <00b101c03d3d$6cd0da60$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t2fhm+etl3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4501 > Good grief! Don't tell me ... someone jumped one of the editors, stashed him in a convienient waredrobe, whiped up a polyjuice potion and snuck into Bloomsbury's HQ in disguise. Aftwerwards they blasted the poor guy with memory charm, which saved appearances, but lead him to the now infamous editing slip up in GoF. > So who did it?? Don't look at me... I'm not to blame. Bloomsbury don't talk to me, even if I contact Jo... it's Fiddy who answers - usually by calling and saying ' what do you want now! ' Reminds me... haven't pestered her for a while... maybe it's time to ask if Jo will do a Adult Chat - as we have lots of questions she didn't answer in the chats she did recently. > (BTW, this groups never ceases to amaze me!) Each of us is just one part (a stone) - when combined together, we are a Mountain (of information). Team work... think how little we would know if we did not share our information with the group. Nick. PS. Did you know that GoF UK First Edition was printed in two places. 750,000 were printed in St.Ives, 250,000 were printed in Glasgow - so if you are collecting the first editions, the Glasgow one is better, as less of them - though 250,000 is still a lot! From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Mon Oct 23 22:53:07 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:53:07 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: German magazine with Harry Potter pics References: <8t2cn4+tkp9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <010201c03d44$02dd4560$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4502 YES! I'd love to test read a chapter or so. And I'd kill for a searchable text, too. Well, no. Not kill. But I'd certainly misbehave for one. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 12:05 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: German magazine with Harry Potter pics > > Unfortunately, I can't take the school library copy out, and so > can't scan it - I was hoping someone else on the list could. > > How about photocopying them? Ok, I know they won't be in color then, > but at least the photocopy could then be scanned. > > > While on the subject of Germany... > > ---- > Tuesday 17th October > > And the Financial Times reports that German retail rules have another > victim - the Harry Potter books. > > German booksellers wanted to copy the midnight party idea used in the > UK > launch of the latest title last Friday night as a celebration of the > latest > success and to further promote it. > > But in Germany shops cannot open by law beyond 8 pm - and booksellers > had to > re-organize their parties to make them private. > > Source: Ecademy.com WeeklEnews(tm) > http://www.Ecademy.com - The E-business Education Network > ---- > > And on the subject of GOF... I'm up to chapter 18 in producing an > ASCII version. Anyone want to be a proof reader/corrector? OCR is > not 100% accruate, so mistakes need correcting. > > Nick > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Oct 24 00:56:04 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:56:04 -0000 Subject: Otterey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter/The Burrow! In-Reply-To: <8t2f2n+rdsb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t2mn4+tj26@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4503 Burrow Farm is approximately 2 miles NE of Stoke Hill: http://uk2.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi? X=293000&Y=98000&gride=&gridn=&width=700&height=400&client=M6&db=&scal e=25000&scale=50000 Be sure to get the whole URL. I'll post a couple of maps soon. -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nick at d... wrote: > > Actually what clinched the Exeter location for me was the portkey > from Stoats Hill which I think is Stoke Hill, which belongs to the > National Forestry Commission. > > I've found a place in Devon known as Stoke Hill > http://www.devon.gov.uk/library/locstudy/gazsto45.html > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M? X=294300&Y=94300&A=Y&Z=1 > > but I don't think that can be the place. > > > This however looks more promising: > ( http://www.exeter.gov.uk/tourism/countryside/countryside.html ) > --- > Stoke Woods > > This woodland is situated on the northern edge of the City. Part of > the wood is owned by the Forestry Commission and jointly cared for > with the Exeter City Council. There are waymarked footpaths to follow > and viewpoints across the Exe Valley. Or further information contact > the Forestry Authority on 01392 832262. > --- > If only they gave a grid reference! > > This looks good though: > http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M? X=293516&Y=95032&A=Y&Z=3 > > And this came from www.romanmap.com > ----- > Stoke Hill (sx9295)) is above and opposite the junction of the Culm > with the Exe, Cullompton (st0107) is upriver. Culm (on) Culm 938 > derives from OW culm W cwlwm Co colm and colmen 'a knot'. Margary > makes no mention of roads connecting either of these forts to the > next entry Isca Dumnoniorum Exeter (sx9192), or the previous entry > Verteuia North Tawton (sx6699). > ----- > Not that it says much, but at least it's a reference to the place! > > > > The description fits and it would also fit with the > > long walk from Ottery its just behind the uni campus which is about > 7 miles from Ottery. > > > Sorry Penny. I've just realised I might have sounded disbelieving. > I was but not of you. I was just amazed that in the three years I > attended Exeter no mention was made of JKR attending. Stupid > University. I very rarely read magazines no time or spare cash and if > I manage to read the London headline and catch 9 o'clock news I'm > lucky. > > You are behind the times... it's the 10 o'clock news now! > > See... you can't have much spare time. > > > Just to illustrate why I think I should have known that fact. > > 1996/7 My first year HP & PS published > > 1997/8 My second year HP & CS published > > 1998/9 My third and final year HP & PoA published. > > No mention of JKR in that time ever. Truly shocking don't you > think? > > No... the books didn't really become famous until 1998/99, and you > would have been studying hard then. > > >They should have been plugging her stuff for all they were worth. > Even this year they failed to stock GoF (I know I visited this > summer) A big table with all her books plus suitable info seems > appropriate to me. Its especially galling when I consider the effort > they put into plugging one of my lecturers poor efforts. But then of > course it was achildrens book and they aren't as important as > academic tomes are they. > > I'm not saying a word (re 'it was a childrens book'). > > Nick > (who is not a child) From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Oct 24 01:12:14 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:12:14 -0000 Subject: Maps to The Burrow In-Reply-To: <8t2mn4+tj26@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t2nle+stjv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4504 Maps showing Burrow Farm and Stoke Hill near Exeter are now in the Files area, in the "Godrick's Hollow" folder. See also the thread "Oterrey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter". -Jim Flanagan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 24 01:35:24 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:35:24 -0000 Subject: Scabbers In-Reply-To: <8t255r+1nn3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t2p0s+uhfv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4505 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Angela Boyko wrote: > > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > > > Caius Marcius wrote: Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would have known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on the Map. But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he > (Scabbers) just "slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also > says that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have prevented himself from showing up on it. Perhaps the authors of the map were only visible to each other ... > the > > map wouldn't have lied, but concealed Peter's presence to everyone > but a > > fellow author? > > > > Angela "Hi, I'm new" Boyko > > Wow! Ingenous theory, I like it! It fits in with the personality of > the Marauders as teenagers, fits in with the plot, and clears up what > seems to be a plot hole. Welcome to the group Angela, and keep the > brilliant deductions coming! > > -- Joywitch Doesn't Harry in PoA and Hermione look at the Map and see both Lupin and Black on it? S From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 01:43:09 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:43:09 -0000 Subject: Chapter 16: The Goblet of Fire Message-ID: <8t2pfd+h57b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4506 Chapter 16: The Goblet of Fire Summary by Kaitlin (all quotes are from the American edition) "Krum, Harry! Viktor Krum!"(248) So the two schools have arrived and we find out that Viktor Krum, the star seeker on the Bulgarian National Quiddich team, is still at school (the Durmstrang Institute, to be exact). Ron is going crazy because he idolizes Krum. While Hermione doesn't really care about him at the time, the other girls are absolutely smitten. "D'you think he'd sign my hat in lipstick?"(248). The Beauxbatons (French for "Fine Wands," I think) group chooses to sit with the Ravenclaws. They're not too happy about being at Hogwarts. And they're still cold, too. Meanwhile, while Ron tries to get the Durmstrang group to sit with the Gryffindors, they opt instead to sit with the Slytherins. Remember how Malfoy mentions that he wanted to go to Durmstrang, but he was sent to Hogwarts instead? I think their ideals mirror those of the Malfoy family. A subtle hint of this is seen on page 251: " the Durmstrang students were revealed to be wearing robes of a deep bloodred." The Durmstrang lot seems to be somewhat happier than the Beauxbatons group. Along with the seats for Madame Maxime and Professor Karkaroff, we notice two extra chairs at the head table. By the way, our friend Viktor is "pampered" by his Professor throughout the dinner. The poor boy has a bit of a cold. He seems to be like Durmstrang's Harry Potter?the miraculous Quiddich seeker and the Headmaster's favorite boy. The welcoming dinner includes a variety of foreign dishes to welcome the guests. While Harry and Ron are eating, a girl from Beauxbatons "who laughed during Dumbledore's speech" comes over to get the bouillabaisse. Harry and Ron (along with all of the other males in the room) goggle at her beautiful blonde hair, blue eyes and white teeth. "She's a veela!" Ron tells Harry (252). I love what Ron says next: "They don't make them like that at Hogwarts!" Harry, staying faithful to Cho, replies, "They make them okay at Hogwarts" (253). Once dinner is finished, Dumbledore begins the Triwizard Tournament by bringing out the Goblet of Fire. Bartemius Crouch (Percy's beloved boss and Head of the Department of International Magical Cooperation) and Ludo Bagman (Head of the Department of Magical Games and Sports, whom we first saw at the Quiddich World Cup) are there to explain the rules. We find out that there will be three tasks held throughout the school year to test the appointed "champions'" magical know-how. Anyone who wishes to be considered as school champion must write her or his name and school on a piece of parchment and put it into the fire. However, the tournament is limited to students over the age of seventeen. On Halloween night, the goblet shoots out the names of the three worthiest "champions"?one from each school. Once selected, each champion is required to participate until the end. One section that I found very interesting is when the students and teachers are leaving the dining hall. The Durmstrang group recognizes Harry and stares at him. Mad-Eye Moody comes and says "Yeah, that's Harry Potter" (258). Karkaroff is stunned by Moody's presence, and we get the feeling that they have known each other for quite some time Nearly everyone under the age of seventeen begins plotting ways to deceive the Age Line. Fred, George and Lee decide to take Aging Potion while Ron and Harry discuss sneaking in at night. We find out what happens when someone takes Aging Potion: when Fred and George try to cross the line, they each sprout a long white beard. You don't mess with Dumbledore's rules! Rumors are flying about (or, as they say in Spanish, "the rumors are running from mouth to mouth":))regarding who the champion will be. All of the Beauxbatons and Durmstrang students have entered. For Hogwarts, the top contenders are Warrington from Slytherin, Angelina Johnson from Gryffindor, and Cedric Diggory from Hufflepuff (the favorite). The next day, on their way to visit Hagrid, Harry, Ron and Hermione see that the Beauxbatons students sleep in their giant carriage. When they get to Hagrid's house, they find him all "dressed up" for a date. "Hagrid was wearing his best (and very horrible) hairy brown suit, plus a checked yellow-and-orange tie he had evidently tried to tame his hair, using large quantities of what appeared to be axle grease. It was now slicked down into two bunches?perhaps he had tried a ponytail like Bill's, but found he had too much hair " (263- 264). We discover that Hagrid fancies Madame Maxime and has done this for her. Anyway, the trio has lunch with Hagrid. Hagrid refuses to join Hermione's S.P.E.W., saying that it would be unkind to take work away from house-elves. As it grows dark, they go back for the announcement of the champions. Since you all are probably just as impatient as the students, here's who the champions are: For Durmstrang, it's Viktor Krum. No surprises there, as both Ron and Karkaroff show us. For Beauxbatons, it's Fleur Delacour (French for "flower of the court"). She's the veela-girl we saw before. Her classmates are disappointed for not having been chosen and begin sobbing. For Hogwarts, it's Cedric "Pretty-Boy" Diggory from Hufflepuff. While Ron is disappointed, the crowd goes wild. It takes some time before Dumbledore can speak again. And just as the three get up to receive their instructions in the next room, the goblet turns red again. A flame shoots out again with a fourth piece of parchment. Dumbledore catches it and stares at the name on the paper. "And then Dumbledore cleared his throat and read out? 'Harry Potter.'" (271) OK, that's it. I don't know what kinds of questions to ask, so I will let you do the asking. Enjoy! From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 24 01:44:50 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 01:44:50 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary In-Reply-To: <39F46D07.7835B9A2@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t2pii+amu7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4507 . > > > Also, the construction of the Marauder's Map must have been > > an incredible piece of magic for young wizard's...James Potter, > > et aliae must have been brilliant.....not only do they become > > animagi, but they construct this map, AND James would have been > > "disappointed" had Harry not snuck out of the castle. > > But was the map created while they were still at Hogwarts? If it was, they > were senior students. I'm not denigrating their brilliance; they did become > Animagi, too, but they could easily have made the map after they graduated. > No, Lupin talks about it in PoA, page 355, as something they wrote after the four of them became Animagi and roamed Hogwarts. > > > And then the construction of Riddle's diary..another major piece > > of magic which lends itself to all kinds of speculation.. > > Did he say when he made the diary, either? Yes, he wrote the diary at age 16 to preserve himself in it so that someone could finish Salazar Slytherin's noble work. > From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 24 02:09:09 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:09:09 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary In-Reply-To: <20001023172843.11648.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8t2r05+nmuq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4508 In PoA, Lupin tells Harry that Filch confiscated the map many "years ago". This was in the chapter, "Snape's Grudge" (American version). So apparently, the Marauders somehow "lost" the map to Filch. I tend to go with the theory that Harry just wasn't looking at his dormitory room the times he used the map and therefore missed "Peter Pettigrew". Afterall, Harry would be paying attention to the hallways in an effort to avoid being caught by one of the teachers or Filch. OR, maybe the Map is "programmed" to detect those who can possibly to harm to the reader..sort of like Moody's Foe Glass in GoF??? The map would get kind of messy if it listed everyone in Hogwarts. Just a thought, :-) Milz --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christian Stub? wrote: > It must have been - George and Fred filched it from > one of Filch's drawers at his ofice (it was labelled > /confiscated and highly dangerous/). I have trouble > seeing the Marauders making such a map after > graduation, and then just give it to Filch. I also > doubt (very, very much) that there were any other > children of the Mauraders that could have taken the > map to school and lost it to Filch. It being > manufactured by the MArauders while at school is what > seems to fit the facts best for me. Do we know that > it is such a very difficult thing to make, by the way? > > D?yr fe, > D?yr Frendar, > D?yr sj?lv, > Det same > > Men eitt veit eg d?yr aldri > Dom om dauden kvar. > > [snip] > > But was the map created while they were still at > > Hogwarts? If it was, they > > were senior students. I'm not denigrating their > > brilliance; they did become > > Animagi, too, but they could easily have made the > > map after they graduated. > [snip] > > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > F? din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p? http://mail.yahoo.no From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 02:14:01 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:14:01 -0000 Subject: scariest scene In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001022160105.00a96c30@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8t2r99+iv2m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4509 The scariest scene to me was probably where the Dementors try to give the kiss to Harry. OTOH that's no suprise because the Dementors are REALLY creepy (shudders...) That, and the part about the Unicorn Blood. That was really didturbing as well. Scott- Who remembers thinking that ghosts were everywhere in his house (when he was little) and being quite scared! > Peg's comment about her daughter having nightmares has got me thinking. . . . > > What do you think the scariest scene in the books so far is? > > In my world, the scene in PS/SS where Quirrel is drinking the Unicorn blood > bothers me every time I read it. Nothing in any of the other books really > bothered me. Even Voldemort's return and the previous deaths in GoF didn't > disturb me at all. But that Unicorn scene gets me every time . . . > > Hum, on second thought . . . the giant spiders in CoS bother me too . . . > but that's because I *hate* spiders. > > DrMM > *~*~*~*~*~* > DrMM is found at drmm at f... > http://www.fuuko.com > Most recent anime: Maho Tsukia Tai From Malabud at excite.com Tue Oct 24 02:30:19 2000 From: Malabud at excite.com (Malabud) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:30:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: How did Voldy know? (Was Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets) Message-ID: <31850794.972354620298.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4510 Amanda wrote: I haven't heard anyone positing a theory as to how the defeated Voldemort lurking someplace obtained information from a re-animated memory committed to a separate object (the diary) long years ago and thinking and acting on its own via life-energy obtained in the present day. The diary entity clearly knew nothing of Voldemort's existence or actions past his own sixteenth year. For Voldemort-of-the-forest to have learned what saved Harry in their confrontation from Tom-o-the-diary, there *must* have been some sort of communication, and I don't see how. Tom didn't learn what he wanted to know until that confrontation scene in the Chamber, and he "died" shortly thereafter when Harry put the fang through the diary. The animating energy he'd stolen from Ginny was returned, and the spell which caused him to "live" in the pages was destroyed. I'm on digest, so I'm always a little behind the times on discussions. But, I do think I may have an answer to this one! Okay, the problem is that we really don't see a way for the Tom-in-the-diary to have imparted the info to Vold-in-the-forest that it was Lily's sacrifice which saved baby Harry. Quite right, there was no way and no time. I agree with Amanda. Yet, how did ole Voldy know about it in GoF? Kelley wrote: When reading GoF, as you go through the story and learn Vold wanted Harry's blood specifically, the gleam in Dumble's eye, Dumble saying Vold's overcome that barrier or whatever, my mind went to: okay, Vold overcame that protection, how did he know to do this? from that part in CoS when he learned that it was Lily's love/protection that saved Harry from him the first time. I never gave it any more thought. Book 2 was just another instance of Vold trying to remove his competition, yes? Albeit, not the Vold of today, but still Vold just the same. Like Kelley, I just kind of assumed that Voldemort is Voldemort is Voldemort. If Tom knew something, it followed that Voldy knew it too. The conflict of Voldemort knowing certain things when no one could have told him didn't occur to me, at least until it came up as a discussion here. (This group sure brings out the inner nitpicker in each of us, doesn't it!) Now, Tom and Voldemort are the same individual, with the same logic skills and thought processes, just different ages. (It doesn't seem to me that his personality has changed much over the years, unfortunately.) When confronted with Harry for the first time (for him) in CoS, young Tom sees the answer fairly quickly, although with significant help from Harry. Now, remember that in PS/SS, Harry met Voldemort within Quirrel. Also recall that Quirrel could not touch Harry without a great deal of pain. After the events at the end of PS/SS, I am sure Voldemort contemplated just what went wrong long and hard after he fled to the forest. "Why couldn't I touch the boy?" he must have wondered. "What is it about Potter that causes me pain if I just touch him?" He had plenty of time to consider the situation, and logical and intelligent as he is, he must have come up with the right answer some time over the next two years. Knowing magic as he does and being the egotistical tyrant that he is, he would not have rested until he figured it out. His pride must have demanded he discover why he couldn't touch Harry, and then also find a way around it. As shown at the end of GoF, he did both. Now, he can touch (and kill) Harry easily. Or that's what he thinks... But now, with the gleam in Dumbledore's eye as a hint for us, we can postulate that it may just be Voldemort's pride in overcoming Harry's untouchablity that will be his downfall in the end. Who knows! Malabud _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From brooksar at indy.net Tue Oct 24 03:01:15 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:01:15 -0000 Subject: English/US differences and Phoenix. In-Reply-To: <39F4718D.3A08EB3D@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t2u1r+ifkc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4511 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > "Brooks A. Rowlett" wrote: > > > Usage: > > Don't forget the fun stuff: sweaters/jumpers, lemon drop/sherbet lemon, > truck/lorry, etc. I forget those not at all - I am a proponent of having those in the FAQ, and a contributor ot the compilation of those - I merely mention the motorbike/motorcycle one because I had only just caught it and do not think it was previously cited except perhaps before my time on the Yahoo list. > a > superlative, hence "very unique" and other such redundancies. > > > (What is the plural of phoenix? > > Phoenices, if you're anal about correct endings. I use "indices" too. Phoenixes if > you're not. So it is not Phoenae or Phoeni? ;-> -Brooks From catlady at wicca.net Tue Oct 24 03:06:58 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:06:58 -0000 Subject: Animagery plus Re: Chapter 16: The Goblet of Fire In-Reply-To: <8t2pfd+h57b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t2uci+kovu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4512 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > The Beauxbatons (French for "Fine Wands," I think) group chooses to > sit with the Ravenclaws. They're not too happy about being at > Hogwarts. And they're still cold, too. Meanwhile, while Ron > tries to get the Durmstrang group to sit with the Gryffindors, they > opt instead to sit with the Slytherins. Remember how Malfoy > mentions that he wanted to go to Durmstrang, but he was sent to > Hogwarts instead? I think their ideals mirror those of the Malfoy > family. I can't believe that an entire school could have all one personality (Ravenclaw for Beauxbaton, Slytherin for Durmstrang). (Besides, who thinks Fleur has a Ravenclaw personality?) I prefer to believe that the visitors sit at table with the House that their Headmaster or Headmistress prefers. Karkaroff, who was tried for Death Eating in Britain, may well have gone to Hogwarts himself, thus been a Slytherin. I don't think Mme. Maxime went to Hogwarts (her English is still so accented, and wouldn't Hagrid have seen her before?) but maybe her House at the French school has a sister-House relationship with Ravenclaw. For Durmstrang to have chosen Karkaroff as Headmaster AFTER he was convicted of Death Eating and released from Azkaban only by ratting on his co-conspirators indicates that Durmstrang's Board of Trustees is full of Malfoy types. I looked around in an English-French French-English dictionary and it seemed to say that baton = staff and baguette = wand. > our friend Viktor is "pampered" by his Professor throughout the > dinner. The poor boy has a bit of a cold. Karkaroff is constantly cooing over Viktor as if Viktor were some kind of prima donna (which reminds me, my mother used to say that there was no word like 'prima donna' to describe males who behave in that arrogant, spoiled, and unreasonably demanding way, because the word for men who behave like that is 'men') at the same time that he is bullying the other boys. Viktor dislikes the fussing, refuses the favors, and tries to hush Karkaroff -- I think Viktor is embarrassed to be treated differently than his fellow students. That is one of the things which seem to me to indicate that Viktor does not have a Slytherin personality. > He seems to be like Durmstrang's Harry Potter?the miraculous > Quiddich seeker and the Headmaster's favorite boy. Interesting comparison! Are you implying that Harry is spoiled? > comes over to get the bouillabaisse. I find it astonishing that the only time that Hermione has had bouillabaisse is when she vacationed in France with her parents. Here in Southern California, many many restaurants that are not French restaurants serve boullabaisse and some people cook it at home. I'm not surprised that Harry and Ron haven't had it: Harry has never eaten anywhere but Hogwarts, Privet Drive, the Burrow, and once at the Zoo cafe at the beginning of book 1. Ron probably can't afford to go to restaurants and his mother gets her new recipes from WITCH WEEKLY not GOURMET MAGAZINE. Even so, I find it astonishing that Ron could be SO suspicious of a nice recognizable stew/soup of seafood and garlic in clear broth. Then the doubtless deliberately joke that, having refused the nice bouillabaisse, he helps himself to black pudding. What's called Black Pudding in Irish diners in NYC is called Blood Pudding in German diners in NYC - it's made of coagulated blood - I think it's disgusting. ANIMAGERY. When we were at Yahoo!, the question was Would You Want to be an Animagus, and people responded by volunteering what animals they hoped to be. As I said at the time, I WANT TO BE ..... .... a cat! Big Surprise! But while I fantasizing, I can't decide between a white tiger or a black jaguar or a cougar or (my true self) a fluffy gray housecat with white toes and nose. I have listed them in order which ranges from the best at fighting and at covering long distances in one night under one's own power, the tiger, to the worst, the housecat. I have listed them in order which ranges from the best at hiding in small places, mingling unobtrusively with humans, and spying, the housecat, to the worst, the tiger. At the time, I said there is another animal, the raccoon, which does okay at the those things I said the housecat is good at, and also has agile little hands, so it can work gadgets while in animal form, which an adventurer might find useful (once a raccoon came into my childhood home through the cat door, found the bathroom and bathtub, and dis-assembled the mechanical plug thingy from the bathtub drain). But since then I have learned, because of the AUGUST '00 ish of SMITHSONIAN, of another animal, the cacomistle, who is a relative of the raccoon who looks kind of like a cat and is maximally cute. And the article said they are super-agile. That would be better than a raccoon. And then I said, who am I trying to fool? I'm not suited to be the hero of a story, fighting and spying and all that stuff. I am suited to sleeping all day on a soft cushion in a warm home and eating bowls of cream and dishes of kitty treats, and being scaredy. Meow. AND WHAT I THINK I WOULD BECOME: probably a hog. Unless hogs have to be brave. AND WHAT I AM AFRAID I WOULD BECOME: somebody's dinner. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Tue Oct 24 03:17:06 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 22:17:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: scariest scene References: <8t0aku+i9h5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F4FF32.95EA66B6@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4513 Susan McGee wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > > > Peg's comment about her daughter having nightmares has got me > > thinking. . . . > > > > > > What do you think the scariest scene in the books so far is? > And the scene where Harry is praying that > V will drown (at the end of GoF). I am surprised that no one mentions the sequence of events where Peter Pettigrew cuts off his own hand with a knife--and then Harry realizes that Peter's standing right beside him, holding that knife and . . . (shudder) I hate sharp pointy things wielded with malevolent intent. Dementors are bad, too. From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 24 03:22:37 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 23:22:37 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagi, Hermione, and my weird dream Message-ID: <200010240327.e9O3RiU14050@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 4514 If I were an animagus, I would be a rabbit. Definitely. I have always had a strange affinity with rabbits. It started with Watership Down. I have always been a hoppy,twitchy sort of person, so I guess it fits. Okay, weird question: do you suppose Hermione speaks French? I mean, can you really see her going to France and not learning the language, her being Hermione and all? For some reason, this thought seemed REALLY important as I drifted off to sleep last night... which I suppose led to the weird dream. I was on a beach (in France), oh, and I was Hermione, did I mention? Anyway, I met this (very cute) guy who turned out to be a Hogwarts student too (but we had never met, because there ARE 1000 students there after all). He was a Ravenclaw though. That's all I remember. For some reason, this dream really pleased me. I think I have officially begun to over-identify with Hermione. HELP! Kathy (who still has not found an satisfactory Muppet-Ron...obsessed? me?) From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Tue Oct 24 03:38:57 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:38:57 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) In-Reply-To: <8ss1io+koud@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t308h+3q2r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4515 well, i found it. i started reading book 1 again, and i dont think hagrid was at hufflepuff. i think he was at griffindor (since griffindor has the loyal people and so forth. here's an excerpt....... first, harry is just meeting draco (for the first time) at 'Madam Malkin's Robes for All Ocasion's' and draco is talking about the housing at Hogwarts (harry has no idea what he is talking about). "Well, no one really knows until they get there, do they, but I know I'll be in Slytherin, all our family have been -- imagine being in hufflepuff, I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?" and then, later, when harry goes outside to ask hagrid what slytherin and hufflepuff are: "And what are Slytherin and Hufflepuff?" "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are a lot o' duffers, but--" "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff," said Harry gloomily. "Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin," said Hagrid darkly. "There's not a single withch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You- KNow-Who was one." you can find these on pages 77-80 (paperback. Chapter 5, Diagon Alley. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > > Well don't feel bad, I already know that I'm completly daffy and > I > > > agree with you here! I KNOW (well of course I could be wrong) > that > > > it said Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, or else STRONGLY implied (I'm > > > thinking the former as we both deduced this...) > > > > Kelley: > > Yippee! Thank you, Scott. I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I > was > > beginning to wonder if maybe I was just starting to make up my own > > story... > > > > I just (electronically) scanned through both CoS and PoU, I mean PoA, > for the word "Hufflepuff" and it's never stated absolutely that > Hagrid > was in that house - although I also thought he was, based on that > intemation in his conversation with Harry & the fact that he is > patient, loyal & unafraid of toil - but his bravery must be the > strongest feature =- good to know! From brooksar at indy.net Tue Oct 24 03:39:19 2000 From: brooksar at indy.net (Brooks R) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:39:19 -0000 Subject: Hallmark Message-ID: <8t3097+jkn8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4516 My minor-mall-right-by-work combined Hallmark-cards-&-ornaments/ bookstore said they had the Harry ornaments in back, and they would be out on display by the end of theweek - So I went to the major-mall-closest-to-work after work to the full scale Hallmark store there, and i barely escaped within a credit limit. There are beautiful little two inch snow globes, depicting the different challenges of the obstacle course to the Stone from Book I; they had the pewter ornaments; they had girl's diaries with morphing covers depicitng 'wizard props' and Hermione; they had notepad holders of clouds and Harry on broom after Snitch (with tape around his glasses!); they had a Gringott's bank with a smiling goblin, and the bottom had a transparent front - where your coins landed was a vault, with a picture of Harry peering in through the door in the back wall of it, and mounds of silver, gold and bronze molded onto the vault floor! There was giftwrap and gift bags and a calendar (which became a picture frame with Hogwarts once you used up the calendar) - the B. Daltons and the Waldens bookstores at this mall also had the long-expected calendar - there was a Hagrid door plaque saying 'Wizards only' (think I have also seen this at WB) - there were metal bookmarks with character pictures on them - and there was more in the catalog the attendant showed me, that is not in yet, including the bookends with Harry and Hermione. There were pens that light up - the mugs they are getting will be different from the WB ones - I might have actually bought more than I did, but I had also happened to find some of the Sandman collectibles had been marked down to half at the comic store I stopped at earlier, and, well.... there went my budget already this evening.....I bought the Endless pewter set for half price...... I warned Vicki 'as you value your budget, stay away from the Hallmark store'.....( a line from that great Sherlock Potter classic, the Hound of the Dumbledores.....) -Brooks From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Tue Oct 24 03:40:23 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:40:23 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) In-Reply-To: <8ss1io+koud@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t30b7+tmj6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4517 well, i found it. i started reading book 1 again, and i dont think hagrid was at hufflepuff. i think he was at griffindor (since griffindor has the loyal people and so forth. here's an excerpt....... first, harry is just meeting draco (for the first time) at 'Madam Malkin's Robes for All Ocasion's' and draco is talking about the housing at Hogwarts (harry has no idea what he is talking about). "Well, no one really knows until they get there, do they, but I know I'll be in Slytherin, all our family have been -- imagine being in hufflepuff, I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?" and then, later, when harry goes outside to ask hagrid...... "And what are Slytherin and Hufflepuff?" "School houses. There's four. Everyone says Hufflepuff are a lot o' duffers, but--" "I bet I'm in Hufflepuff," said Harry gloomily. "Better Hufflepuff than Slytherin," said Hagrid darkly. "There's not a single withch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin. You- Know-Who was one." you can find these on pages 77-80 (paperback. Chapter 5, Diagon Alley. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "heidi tandy" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kelley " wrote: > > > Well don't feel bad, I already know that I'm completly daffy and > I > > > agree with you here! I KNOW (well of course I could be wrong) > that > > > it said Hagrid was in Hufflepuff, or else STRONGLY implied (I'm > > > thinking the former as we both deduced this...) > > > > Kelley: > > Yippee! Thank you, Scott. I'm so glad I'm not the only one. I > was > > beginning to wonder if maybe I was just starting to make up my own > > story... > > > > I just (electronically) scanned through both CoS and PoU, I mean PoA, > for the word "Hufflepuff" and it's never stated absolutely that > Hagrid > was in that house - although I also thought he was, based on that > intemation in his conversation with Harry & the fact that he is > patient, loyal & unafraid of toil - but his bravery must be the > strongest feature =- good to know! From catlady at wicca.net Tue Oct 24 03:51:19 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 03:51:19 -0000 Subject: Timeline of Ages (long) Message-ID: <8t30vn+ndsf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4518 Maybe I shouldn't confess what I do when I'm supposed to be working.... but I drew up a chart to try to figure out everyone's ages based on imformation that has been discussed on this list, such as James must have been out of Hogwarts by the time Bill started or else Bill would have said something about him. I may have committed errors, please let me know. Scroll way, way down to see what conclusions I have drawn from this. 1994-5 (this is by years that begin roughly July 1) GoF takes place 1993-4 Percy's senior year at Hogwarts 1992-3 Ginny's first year at Hogwarts 1991-2 Harry and Ron's first year, Gryffindor wins House Cup 1990-1 Slytherin wins House Cup for 6th consecutive year 1989-90 S. wins H.C. for 5th c.y.; Fred and George's first year 1988-9 S. wins H.C. for 4th c.y. 1987-8 S. wins H.C. for 3rd c.y.; Percy's first year 1986-7 S. wins H.C. for 2nd c.y. 1985-6 S. wins H.C. for 1st c.y. 1984-5 Charlie's senior year; Gryffindor wins House Cup 1983-4 1982-3 Bill's senior year 1981-2 Ginny is born; Voldemort's reign of terror ends 1980-1 Harry is born; Ron is born 1979-80 1978-9 Fred and George are born; Charlie's first year 1977-8 1976-7 Percy is born; Bill's first year 1975-6 MWPP+L+S's senior year 1974-5 1973-4 Catlady's senior year (not at Hogwarts) 1972-3 1971-2 V's reign of terror begins; Catlady starts high school (10th grade) 1970-1 1969-70 MWPP+L+S's first year 1968-9 1967-8 Charlie is born; Catlady starts middle school (6th grade); RFK assassination 1966-7 1965-6 Bill is born 1964-5 1963-4 JFK assassination 1962-3 Catlady starts kindergarten (the years won't add up: I skipped) 1961-2 1960-1 1959-60 1958-9 1957-8 MWPP+L+S are born. Catlady is born (in November and in our school district then that was before the cut-off for entering students) Conclusions: this is a lot to speculate about. One thing, for MWPP to have been out of school by the time Bill came in, the latest they could finish is class of '76. Class of '77 if Bill is only one year before Charlie. Sorry, Neil. The timeline shows that Bill and Charlie were born well before the Vold years, while the others were born during those bad times. Thus giving me to speculate that Molly and Arthur had the normal two children like everybody else, but then V arose and they fought him, and many wizards and witches were killed, and Molly and Arthur decided to do their bit to preserve wizarding genes. And Ginny was born around the time that V was defeated, so instead of my previous theory that Arthur and Molly kept trying until they got a girl, my new theory is that, with V defeated, they figured they'd done enough. Also, as Ginny is born during Bill's sixth year, the statement that Ginny has wanted to go to Hogwarts ever since Bill first went is even more messed up than we had previously thought -- Bill would be OUT of Hogwarts by the time that she wanted to go there. PERHAPS we should attribute this to a printer's error and say, it was really supposed to say that Ginny has wanted to go to Hogwarts ever since PERCY first went. Also, by this timeline, Bill would be 29 and Charlie 27 during GoF. I don't think they seemed quite that old. Perhaps the people who were speculating that wizarding folk's longer life expectancy means they age more slowly all along were kind of right. I think the wizarding folk age at the same rate as Muggles until age 21, and, at some age such as 65, they just stop aging. BUT perhaps they age like Muggles to age 21 and then age more slowly. How does that affect magic-Muggle mixed marriages? Does the Muggle spouse get to drink anti-aging potion as long as the marriage lasts, and thus live as long as wizarding folk? Or is the slow aging genetically inborn rather than a spell, and thus the Muggle spouse would get old and decrepit while the wizarding spouse is still young and strong.... From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Tue Oct 24 04:26:32 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 00:26:32 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an a... Message-ID: <6d.af32190.27266978@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4519 I would be a DUCK that was my maiden name........hehe Coleen From aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca Tue Oct 24 05:09:14 2000 From: aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca (Angela Boyko) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:09:14 -0300 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: scariest scene References: <8t2r99+iv2m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F5197A.58A7DA16@nb.sympatico.ca> No: HPFGUIDX 4520 I found that all the endings of all the books are scary - particularly C0S and GoF. It's the Voldemort influence. But the one scene that I can't re-read because it's so scary - is the one with the giant spiders. *shiver* As a child, I got scared of commercials for the "Bigfoot" movie. It didn't help that my parents were house hunting and kept looking at houses out in the woods. I was terrified that we would move into the woods and Bigfoot would come reaching through an open window, just like the commercial. Angela -- Behold Angela the Brave! ICQ: 65588507 New Brunswick, Canada, eh? AIM: angelamermaid http://www.geocities.com/ochfd42/index.html "Dreams are illustrations from the book your soul is writing about you." - Marsha Norman From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 05:21:16 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:21:16 -0000 Subject: Oterrey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter In-Reply-To: <8t2dfe+22k7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t368c+g46a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4521 Well, the phrase "signposted Plymouth" puts an interesting mental image in my head! If that phrase describes your car, it might well take 90min. to drive 20 miles (particularly if it was a thick signpost and a rusty Plymouth....) :) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nick at d... wrote: > > Chudleigh mind you is a good 90minutes drive from Ottery St Mary > Branch left (signposted Plymouth) > to join Motorway M5 > 9.8 1.1 M5 Junction 30 (A376/A379) (EXETER SERVICE AREA) > Forward (signposted Plymouth) > Does that make it better - Chudleigh is quite near, at least to > Ottery St Mary. > > Nick From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 24 06:22:04 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:22:04 -0000 Subject: Animagery plus Re: Chapter 16: The Goblet of Fire In-Reply-To: <8t2uci+kovu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t39qc+dkm4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4522 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > I looked around in an English-French French-English dictionary > and it seemed to say that baton = staff and baguette = wand. I suspect that JKR figure that BATON was close enough to imply wand, since Beauxbaguette sounds like what you dunk in your soup. > I find it astonishing that the only time that Hermione has had > bouillabaisse is when she vacationed in France with her parents. Here > in Southern California, many many restaurants that are not French > restaurants serve boullabaisse and some people cook it at home I dont find it that astonishing, after all (at the risk of offending several members of this group, although I really dont mean to) the English are not exactly known for their cooking. And in the U.S., despite the trendiness of gourmet and ethnic and fancy French food, there are lots of people who have never tried anything other than the plain boring food they grew up with. I find it weird, personally, but I meet these people all the time. They are mostly boring people. Also, there are a lot of restaurants in places like LA and NY and London that have bouillabaisse, but a lot fewer in Podunk and Little Puddington (or where ever it is that Hermione is from). Not that we know if Hermione is from somewhere outside a big city, but most people are. --Joywitch, who is from New York, center of the universe and home of the Subway Series!!!!!!!!!!!!! From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 24 06:31:43 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 06:31:43 -0000 Subject: Scariest Scene Message-ID: <8t3acf+4arb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4523 The thing that scared me the most was the first chapter of GoF. It took me a minute to figure out what had happened; then I realized: Oh my god, Tom Riddle killed his own father AND his grandparents! That really sent shivers up my spine. I mean, you have to be a seriously evil bad guy to kill your own family members. (Unless of course your father is king and you want to be, in which case you are just ambitious, but thats a whole other folklore.) --Joywitch From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 07:30:54 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:30:54 +0200 Subject: Lockhart's Double? References: <8svfjc+qk3u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <017201c03d8c$593a90a0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4524 > be interested in keeping his name. I think that she really thinks he > is so much of a jerk that she based Gilderoy Lockhart on him. After > all, she has said that Lockhart is the one character she consciously > based on someone Say, that's quite a thought. They're both writers. They're both people who (at least from JKR point of view) look a lot less charming up close and personal than on their pedestals. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat she knows. From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Tue Oct 24 08:06:47 2000 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:06:47 -0000 Subject: Timeline of Ages (long) In-Reply-To: <8t30vn+ndsf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t3fun+pipv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4525 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > BUT perhaps they age like Muggles to age 21 and then age more slowly. A-Ha! So now we can identify the wizards in our community! They are the ones who are still only 35 years old when you know they celebrated their 21st birthdays 30 years ago! Pam From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 08:24:03 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:24:03 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My animagus/nightmares References: <1.5.4.32.20001023205101.008e1714@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <01c401c03d93$c52691e0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4526 Some day, when I find time to get myself psychoanalyzed, I'll have to figure out why I always end up picking on Neil. But for the mean time, I can't help it ... > - I fear I would turn into a sponge and end up in someone's bathtub. Err, you weren't planning to divulge the identity of the bathtub's owner, were you? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * As for myself, I'd rather like to transform into cow, preferably a Simmenthal. I think cows are the single species on the planet to have attained the true stoic ideal of apathia. Cows have the problem of existence pretty well taken care of. That's obviously why Mrs. Zeus used to turn into one whenever hubby's escapades got to be too much for her. But I'm afraid I would finish the mighty magic, do my dance, wave my wand ... and nothing would happen. Then I would discover that you can't turn into an animal when you are one already. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > When I was a small child, my mother always used to say, "Night, night. > Sleep tight. Don't let the bed bugs bite". I don't recall thinking, "What > bed bugs? Are they lethal? Gemmeouttahere!" - there was just something > comforting about the rhyme. As it stands, that old rhyme is outdated and possibly detrimental to a child's development of a healthy assertiveness. It instructs kids to go through life hoping bad things won't happen to them. The more healthy varient (which I invented for *my* kids) is as follows: "Night, night. Sleep tight. And if the bed bugs bite, bite back." Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From SHENmagic at aol.com Tue Oct 24 09:06:57 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 05:06:57 EDT Subject: Pettigrew/Scabbers & Marauders' Map Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4527 In Message: 17 Digest Number 207 dated 10/23/00 9:59:46 AM, Penny Linsenmayer Subject: Re: Scabbers >But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just > >"slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says > >that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have > >prevented himself from showing up on it. >Penny It makes sense that when the Map was created, it was spelled so that none of the Marauders were invisible /non-show to each other. They would want to be able to see where each one of them was, in case they were positioning for a prank, or in need of a rescue. Since the Map was spelled to go blank ("Mischief managed"), I will also venture that they anticipated it might be seen or "captured" by non-marauder eyes and perhaps it was also spelled that non - Marauder eyes would NOT see any of the Marauders. Alternately, it's possible Fred & George did not notice that "Peter Pettigrew" was hanging around near Percy (whom I suspect did not take him out of the dorm), or they may not have checked the dorms when they were consulting the map; most of their mischief probably took place outside Griffindor. Harry had the map a relatively short time, perhaps he, too, only checked outside the Griffindor house, or along the routes he was planning to take when he consulted it. Aylihael (who did one heck of a cut and paste at the beginning of this message) ? We are the ones who chase pixies, Run with the unicorns, Dance with the faeries, Sing with the sirens, Soar with the phoenixes, And swim with the mermaids. We are the ones who believe in the Unbelievable. We are the ones who dare to dream.? ~author unknown From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 24 10:46:15 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:46:15 +0100 Subject: chapter 16 and food Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4528 Rita wrote: "I can't believe that an entire school could have all one personality (Ravenclaw for Beauxbaton, Slytherin for Durmstrang)." The important point was to get one champion on each of the house tables. It was also to show that, even though Durmstrang students are considered to be untrustworthy and so on (i.e. like the Slytherin's), they are not all like this. It is also an indication that some of the Slytherin's may actually be nice people - shame about Malfoy and co. The more important thing was to select Cedric, from Hufflepuff, for Hogwarts. The interaction between him and Harry I could not see having happened if he was from any other house (even Gryffindor). This only left Ravenclaw for Beuaxbaton. I can see Fleur as being quite hard working, but also she seems to know how to turn on the charm. Kaitlin wrote: "He seems to be like Durmstrang's Harry Potter-the miraculous Quiddich seeker and the Headmaster's favorite boy." Rita replied: "Interesting comparison! Are you implying that Harry is spoiled?" Harry is spoiled in so much that he gets away with a lot. Especially things like nighttime wanderings during the holiday. However I will say that I could see Dumbledore using such happenings to teach any student important lessons rather than just giving them weeks of detentions. Rita wrote: "I find it astonishing that the only time that Hermione has had bouillabaisse is when she vacationed in France with her parents. Here in Southern California, many many restaurants that are not French restaurants serve boullabaisse and some people cook it at home" Joywitch replied: "I dont find it that astonishing, after all (at the risk of offending several members of this group, although I really dont mean to) the English are not exactly known for their cooking." Rita wrote: "Even so, I find it astonishing that Ron could be SO suspicious of a nice recognizable stew/soup of seafood and garlic in clear broth. Then the doubtless deliberately joke that, having refused the nice bouillabaisse, he helps himself to black pudding. What's called Black Pudding in Irish diners in NYC is called Blood Pudding in German diners in NYC - it's made of coagulated blood - I think it's disgusting." I think I will go away and sulk. The English cookery skills have been insulted - and not for the first time. >From my knowledge of different cuisines, Britain now has one of the most diverse and interesting variations of foods available. I just checked in a guidebook, of restaurants in Oxford, and the list of available cuisines is amazing. Having said that I can understand Ron and Harry not knowing what Bouillabaisse is. I had to look it up to find out and I have sampled many different foods (having said that I eat little seafood so this may be the reason). I can understand Ron's reaction. My college dinning hall food can be terrible (this is why I am living in one of the other blocks - the chef down here can cook brilliantly). Just because you can recognize what is in it does not mean that it is edible. Also if I were to cook something like that I would call it either seafood or fish stew. I do not know many of the proper names for dishes - I just label them by what is in it. I also ask the question: Is it the idea of blood pudding that is disliked or have you actually tried it? I know plenty of people who will not try it because they dislike the idea of it but I myself rather like it and do eat it. Simon From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 24 10:55:00 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:55:00 +0100 Subject: Movie news Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4529 Nick wrote: "Hope you get better soon - real soon, as would be nice to get some photos of the cast!" I am feeling a lot better now. Seem to have passed the flu to my next-door neighbour. She was not too happy earlier! Nick wrote: "The man with the crane was right then... he was planning to leave by 7am Monday morning." The man and that crane have gone - but they are still there filming. I have the impression that they have been setting up around the clock and most of the lighting was only there so they could work at night. I wandered round the Sheldonian and Bodleian today but they are filming inside one of the rooms right at the back and security would not let me go anywhere near it. They do, however, seem to have the restaurant and toilet facilities a short walk away (this is in fact 4 double decker buses that have been refitted and parked outside Wadham College with large catering vans at either end). I will take my camera with me this afternoon and I hope to get some pictures when they are at lunch - as they have to walk down public roads to get there (and security can not manage to stop everyone photographing or get in everyone's way). Nick wrote: "Security were quite well behaved when I was there - I guess they must have had enough of it, and have started showing off!" >From what I have gathered security seem to be fine if you are male - they just tell you that you cant go wherever they do not want you to go. It is the women that have been having problems. 'Typical' lad behaviour - giving all males a bad name. Simon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Oct 24 11:23:05 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 24 Oct 2000 04:23:05 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Timeline of Ages (long) Message-ID: <20001024112305.13993.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4530 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 12:11:26 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:11:26 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My animagus/nightmares References: <1.5.4.32.20001023205101.008e1714@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <01c401c03d93$c52691e0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <001501c03db3$89c36c20$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4531 > That's obviously why Mrs. Zeus used to > turn into one whenever hubby's escapades got to be too much for her. Err, um, never mind. I just remembered that Hera didn't turn herself into a cow--she turned Io into one, and it was a punishment. Might as well correct myself before someone else does. In the future, I think I'll stick to goats. For now, Moooo! Aberforth's Menagerie (a.k.a. Mike Gray) From warmsley at btinternet.com Tue Oct 24 10:43:48 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:43:48 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary Message-ID: <01c03da7$4a79c160$0100007f@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 4532 -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Date: 23 October 2000 19:19 Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary >Susan McGee wrote: > >> I DO think it's a major faux pax/gap in the story that no one >> noticed that Ron was carrying around someone named Peter Pettigrew >> all the time or that PP was in the dormitory... > >Well, it's a weak defense, but I think Ron doesn't carry him around during >the times the map is being used by someone who'd know the name, and also I >don't think anyone would use it to check their home dorm. > A similar problem is this: how come RL didn't notice that Harry & Hermione were on the map twice? It never lies, after all... Jeremy From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Oct 24 12:28:56 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:28:56 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map In-Reply-To: <01c03da7$4a79c160$0100007f@warmsley> Message-ID: <8t3va8+d6fj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4533 Jeremy wrote: > A similar problem is this: how come RL didn't notice that Harry > & Hermione were on the map twice? It never lies, after all... It never lies, but does it show the reader everything it could show? I think someone else implied that if the map doesn't show something, it isn't actually lying, it's just not telling. As I mentioned earlier, there is evidence that the map has a mind of its own. Perhaps it tunes in to the thoughts of the reader and shows what the reader needs to see. Lupin could see Pettigrew because he knew Pettigrew was an Animagus. Maybe Harry et al only saw Scabbers because that's how they knew him. Neil From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 24 12:54:37 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:54:37 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary In-Reply-To: <01c03da7$4a79c160$0100007f@warmsley> Message-ID: <8t40qd+26q0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4534 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Warmsley" wrote: > > A similar problem is this: how come RL didn't notice that Harry > & Hermione were on the map twice? It never lies, after all... > > Jeremy He may have seen them, and been puzzled, and then, too discrete, to mention it. He does say he thought the map was malfunctioning (and no wonder)! On a related note: There are obviously some areas of Hogwarts that don't show up on the map. The Chamber of Secrets is surely not visible. It's possible that the map doesn't reveal who is in sleeping quarters (like Hagrid's). That would explain why Pettigrew, who spent most of his time asleep in the dorm, was never spotted, and why Lupin says he saw three go into Hagrid's and four come out. This may have been a conscious decision by MWPP, to lessen the possibility of the Map being used as a tool for blackmail...one should never meddle in the affairs of wizards . Pippin From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 24 13:16:25 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:16:25 +0100 Subject: Trademarks & Book titles 5, 6 & 7 - maybe Message-ID: <000501c03dbc$a1b036c0$42977ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4535 Hi all I was just doing a search on Trademarks - as you do. And I found some things of interest. http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/cgi-bin/casablanca/cb_cgi?cb_dialogue=dlg_tmer85 &trademark=2237252 This appears to be a list of all the domain names! A little more interesting were these: 2231656 HARRY POTTER AND THE ALCHEMIST'S CELL WO 26.04.2000 Pending - Examined 09 16 25 28 30 41 2230578 HARRY POTTER AND THE CHARIOTS OF LIGHT WO 26.04.2000 Pending - Examined 09 16 25 28 30 41 2230582 HARRY POTTER AND THE PYRAMIDS OF FURMAT WO 26.04.2000 Pending - Examined 09 16 25 28 30 Now who would be registering names like this... are they book titles? Who... lets see: Proprietor: Time Warner Entertainment Company, L.P. Incorporated in United States of America , Delaware . Address: 75 Rockefeller Plaza New York New York 10019 United States of America Agent: Field Fisher Waterhouse Address: 35 Vine Street London EC3N 2AA You can see for yourself - http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/text/index.html Just search on 'Harry Potter' Well - that should start some discussions! Nick. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 24 13:20:12 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:20:12 -0000 Subject: Trademarks & Book titles 5, 6 & 7 - maybe In-Reply-To: <000501c03dbc$a1b036c0$42977ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8t42ac+olcc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4536 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > Hi all > > I was just doing a search on Trademarks - as you do. > > And I found some things of interest. > I've been running regular searches in the US for HP-related marks, and checked again this morning - if any applications for HP titles have been filed in the US so far, they have been done too recently to appear on the http://www.uspto.gov website - but I will keep checking... From vderark at bccs.org Tue Oct 24 14:03:12 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:03:12 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew/Scabbers & Marauders' Map In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8t44r0+amnj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4537 > Griffindor. Harry had the map a relatively short time, perhaps he, too, only > checked outside the Griffindor house, or along the routes he was planning to > take when he consulted it. Another thing to think about is that there will be well over a thousand little tiny names wriggling around on that map, right? Or are only SOME names/figures shown? And if only some, which I think likely or it would be too cumbersome to use, then there is some form of "filtering" going on. I think that "filtering" is just a natural part of the way magic works. It does what it's intended to do. Magic in the HP universe doesnt' follow scientific logic completely, it also follows intent. (For example, when you need bones regrown, you drink a Skele-Gro potion, whether it's an arm or a leg, and the potion responds in part to the INTENT of what it's supposed to do and regrows the correct bones.) And the intent of this item is to show what the viewer needs to see. Harry himself didn't appear on the map until after it had been explained to him and he INTENDED to use it. Then low and behold, there's a little Harry Potter figure on it. He needed to know how to open the hump-backed witch, the map showed him. No one would have seen Pettigrew on the map because no one knew he was alive, so the intent part of the magic would have left him out. Lupin did see him, however, because he was suspicious and intended, when he looked at the map, to find hidden things on it, to understand what was going on, and Lupin knew enough of what was involved to include Pettigrew in his schema. Then the map obligingly showed him Peter, much to his surprise. When Harry intended to see who was sneaking around the castle, he saw Barty Crouch Jr. Peter spent his time at Hogwarts as a pet rat, so in that innocuous mode he just didn't show up. This whole "intent" thing just seems so important to understanding magic. We are SO stuck in our perfectly logical scientific way of looking at things (obviously, since that's the way our world works) that it's hard to see that the Wizarding World just operates by different logic. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 24 14:17:30 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:17:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My animagus/nightmares References: <1.5.4.32.20001023205101.008e1714@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <01c401c03d93$c52691e0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <39F599F9.C794B7FF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4538 Aberforths_Goat wrote: > > When I was a small child, my mother always used to say, "Night, night. > > Sleep tight. Don't let the bed bugs bite". I don't recall thinking, "What > > bed bugs? Are they lethal? Gemmeouttahere!" - there was just something > > comforting about the rhyme. > > As it stands, that old rhyme is outdated and possibly detrimental to a > child's development of a healthy assertiveness. Develop, hell. My children were born with a healthy assertiveness. My children try to exert that assertiveness on their parents and world every waking moment of every day. I defy you to spend one day with my daughter, especially, and not start teaching her every passive rhyme and story you've ever heard in some vain hope of denting her assertiveness. This is the girl who spent day before yesterday being Little Miss Muffet, and I had to make a hand-spider come down and say boo, so she could shriek and run away, who then decided it was her turn to scare the spider. The things she did to that spider. Ow. Sigh. > It instructs kids to go through life hoping bad things won't happen to them. And they should go through life hoping they will? It says "don't let the bedbugs bite," not "sit there and take it." Sounds pretty active and assertive to me. And now I'll bite---who or what, if anything, is Aberforth's Goat? Every time I see your signature I think of my friends, who misheard the song line "Ain't no woman like the one I got" for years as "Ain't no woman like a one-eyed goat," and they wondered how they could play it publicly.... --Amanda From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 24 14:22:30 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:22:30 +0100 Subject: Things to ask Jo. Message-ID: <002201c03dc6$0db41ae0$42977ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4539 Hi All I am writing to Jo soon, and I would love to be able to send her some edited threads (ie, remove email addresses etc) from our recent discussions. 1. Does anyone object if Jo reads some of our threads? 2. Does anyone recommend any particular threads - i.e. ones which have vitally important questions we would like answered? Please let me know. Nick. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 24 14:19:01 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:19:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Marauder's Map/Riddle's diary References: <01c03da7$4a79c160$0100007f@warmsley> Message-ID: <39F59A55.BB053DF7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4540 Warmsley wrote: > A similar problem is this: how come RL didn't notice that Harry > & Hermione were on the map twice? It never lies, after all... Oooh, I'm getting a headache. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 24 14:20:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:20:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie news References: Message-ID: <39F59AC2.E5A7256F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4541 Hey, Simon, it seems like we're well into scenes that should contain Dumbledore. Any whisper from anywhere on who was finally cast? --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 15:21:36 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:21:36 -0500 Subject: Harry Potter book title announced (Does this make it official?) Message-ID: <00a701c03dce$19d1a1a0$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4542 This was in my email this morning. I couldn't just paste a link--there wasn't one! So I have the whole story. This is from Infobeat Entertainment News. The question is, does this make it true? Harry Potter book title announced NEW YORK (AP) - Here's a tidbit for all the Harry Potter fans waiting for the fifth book in J.K. Rowling's series. The title, straight from the author, is "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix." That was all Rowling would let slip Friday morning on the "Today" show and at a breakfast with children who had written winning essays about her books. "I kept saying I wouldn't tell anyone, but then this cute boy, about 8, asked me, and I knew it would make him so happy," she said. Rowling has no deadline for the book and said it would probably not be ready by July, as had been rumored. "Although book five is underway, I really haven't got that far with it yet," she said. "I really like the writing...I would like to take my time." All is not lost, however. Rowling is penning two other related books to be released March 16. Proceeds from the sale of the books - "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" and "Quidditch Through the Ages" - will benefit Comic Relief. "Fantastic Beasts" is a title on the boy wizard's school supply list in a previous book. The second new volume will be an anthology of Harry's favorite sport, quidditch. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 24 14:24:29 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:24:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marauder's Map References: <8t3va8+d6fj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F59B9C.967DDD67@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4543 Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > As I mentioned earlier, there is evidence that the map has a mind of > its own. Perhaps it tunes in to the thoughts of the reader and shows > what the reader needs to see. It certainly seemed to have some sort of thought process when it was "talking" to Snape. Certain of those comments seemed directed at him personally, like it registered who had tried to make it reveal itself, rather than general insults programmed to print out under those conditions. The Marauders did know Snape, after all, but this hardly seems like a situation they'd have included in the map just in case. I think it has some discretionary ability. On that note, though, if it only shows dangers to the user, wouldn't it *still* have shown Pettigrew? He was/is a danger to Harry. --Amanda. Head still hurts. Damn map. From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 24 14:36:28 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:36:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re: animagi - what would you be? formerly Re: Dumbledore an animagus? References: <8t0788+98d0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F59E6B.E0B869E9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4544 Susan McGee wrote: > If you were to become an animagus/a, what would you LIKE to become? Something slender or graceful or beautiful or amusing. Mongoose, elk, Somali cat, snow leopard, osprey. > Is that different than what you think you WOULD become? Yeah, I think I'd probably be a badger. Not exactly unattractive but nothing you'd cuddle without permission, not necessarily dangerous but able to take care of business, and somehow it seems practical. Short. A tad stout. Whoops, did I forget that "stubborn" thing? Or tangling with stuff out of its league? Perhaps I've been arguing with the local school again too much.... > What would you be afraid you MIGHT become? Something hideous or truly ugly, something nobody wants to have near it or even remember exists. Dangerous spider. Dangerous snake. Scorpion. June bug (long story, phobia, don't ask). Anything else I'm afraid of and still have to deal with a lot. --Amanda From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 24 14:39:59 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:39:59 +0100 Subject: Movie news Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4545 Amanda wrote: "Hey, Simon, it seems like we're well into scenes that should contain Dumbledore. Any whisper from anywhere on who was finally cast?" There is a rumour going around that Richard Harris is booked into one of the Oxford hotels. Also I have heard unconfirmed reports that he has been sighted I Oxford. Of course these are both rumours and so I can confirm nothing - but it seems as if he has finally agreed to the movie. I have just come back from a class and looking around the outside of where they are filming. It seems that they are not filming at the moment. As I walked through Christ Church meadow there were loud children type noises coming from one of the large marquis. So I guess that they are not filming at this afternoon (it has just started to rain). Unfortunately I cannot get near enough to take any photos. They have positioned security all around the marquis - I think they have been having problems - Oxford is full of interested students and school children at the moment (it is half term week = no school). Simon From dorband at uwp.edu Tue Oct 24 14:52:32 2000 From: dorband at uwp.edu (Brian Dorband) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:52:32 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <8t47ng+nvks@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4546 ONDON (Reuters) - Like most nine-year-olds, Laila Banjar was spellbound by the latest Harry Potter (news - web sites) tale of magic -- but she could still spot an error missed by proof readers, editors and even author J.K. Rowling (news - web sites). Banjar was reading ``Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire'' for a second time when she came across the glaring mistake -- leading character Crouch, who had gone missing on page 485, had made a sudden, and unplanned, reappearance. The mistake, widely reported in British newspapers on Saturday, appears in the ninth paragraph on page 503 of the 640 page bestseller. Banjar's mother, Tracey, sent an e-mail to the publishers Bloomsbury asking whether the offending sentence, which reads '''Dumbledore, come!' said Crouch angrily.,'' was a printing error. ``Yes, you are right about the error, we have forwarded your e-mail on to the editorial department,'' Bloomsbury admitted. ``We are very upset that this error went unnoticed until after printing.'' The sentence should have referred to Cornelius Fudge and not Crouch. ``I was really surprised when I spotted the mistake and then I jumped for joy when I knew I was right,'' Banjar, from Somerset in western England, told the Times newspaper. Bloomsbury stressed the mistake was not Rowling's. ``Joanne is a complete perfectionist with her book and this mistake crept in during the typesetting stage,'' publicity director Katie Collins told the Mirror. The book, the fourth in the series about Harry Potter the schoolboy wizard, has been a worldwide phenomenon with the largest initial print run in history. Total sales of the Potter series run into millions of copies. The success of the book has catapulted Rowling to the top of the list of Britain's highest paid women. And another Harry Potter secret is out of the bag. The Mirror reported that Rowling had let slip the title of the fifth book -- Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix -- during an interview on a television show in the U.S. The above article was on the web yesterday. Did WE know about this? I'll need to check my copy tonight. Not really intriguing - just a mistake... Brian From dorband at uwp.edu Tue Oct 24 14:58:09 2000 From: dorband at uwp.edu (Brian Dorband) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:58:09 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <8t4821+9i9r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4547 from today's Rueters: TORONTO (Reuters) - J.K. Rowling (news - web sites), author of the extraordinarily popular Harry Potter (news - web sites) children's books said on Monday that revealing the title of her next book, ``Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix,'' to a child in New York last week was not a mistake. ``I didn't expect to do it now at all, but I did say after ''Goblet of Fire'' that I wouldn't keep it a secret,'' said Rowling, who was in Toronto for the International Festival of Authors. Rowling added that she could not handle the pressure of keeping such a big secret and she did not want people to sift through her garbage. ``I didn't have plans to say it just now. I thought I would at some point but then there was this really, really cute little boy who asked and I thought, oh, he'd look so happy if I told him,'' she said. The British-born, single mother who wrote the first Harry Potter novel because she could not afford to heat her apartment said she ``only decided a couple of weeks ago what the title was going to be.'' Other details of the book were scant, although Rowling did say at a press conference Sunday that the fifth Harry Potter book should be shorter than number four. Rowling is in Toronto as part of the annual authors festival. She will read at the city's 50,000-seat SkyDome stadium Tuesday with Canadian authors Kenneth Oppel and Tim Wynne-Jones. The event may prove to be Rowling's largest event to date, with the number of ticket sold well into five figures. Rowling expressed her fear of speaking in front of such a large crowd, insisting she's ``not the Rolling Stones.'' ----------------------------- JKR's simple integrity continues to impress me - especially above when she reveals why she divulged the title to book # 5 - just to make a little boy's day! How nice is that?! Very classy. Brian From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 16:27:42 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:27:42 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Things to ask Jo. References: <002201c03dc6$0db41ae0$42977ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <004a01c03dd7$55a95e80$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4548 > 2. Does anyone recommend any particular threads - i.e. ones which have > vitally important questions we would like answered? Well, up till now no one has mentioned the HP community's desperate need for more information about Aberforth and myself (I'd be glad to provide it myself, but hey--Jo's the writer ... ) Besides that, there's only one thing I simply have to know if I'm going to keep out of the psycho ward: *Why did Moody pull the whole goblet stunt just to get Harry to a portkey?* Our questions about the number of students at Hogwarts are difficult, too--but the portkey problem is a central plot issue. The question has been bouncing around since July the 8th, and it really needs an answer. Pretty please? With icing and whizzing fizbees on top?? Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Oct 24 16:35:03 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:35:03 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map In-Reply-To: <39F59B9C.967DDD67@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t4dnn+hhta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4549 Amanda wrote: <<>> The taunting of Snape supports the idea of an independent mind. What I'm suggesting in addition to that is that until Harry *knew* Scabbers was Pettigrew and that he was a danger to him, he may have seen "Scabbers" on the map (if anything) rather than "Pettigrew". Perhaps the map warns or indicates dangers, but shows only those characters the user knows. Unfortunately, this doesn't explain "Bartemius Crouch" in GoF, but I'll stick with this theory for now...oh, yeah, didn't Harry see BC Jnr in the Pensieve? Hmmm. BTW, can anyone remember the map showing "Scabbers" at any point? Neil (still thinking of being a horse and, in fact, thinking like a horse...) From warmsley at btinternet.com Tue Oct 24 16:32:45 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:32:45 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marauder's Map Message-ID: <01c03dd8$09e66be0$ab5d073e@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 4550 >As I mentioned earlier, there is evidence that the map has a mind of >its own. Perhaps it tunes in to the thoughts of the reader and shows >what the reader needs to see. Lupin could see Pettigrew because he >knew Pettigrew was an Animagus. Maybe Harry et al only saw Scabbers >because that's how they knew him. But Harry saw Moody as Crouch... Jeremy From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Oct 24 16:49:57 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:49:57 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map In-Reply-To: <01c03dd8$09e66be0$ab5d073e@warmsley> Message-ID: <8t4ejl+8qms@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4551 I wrote: <<>> Jeremy said: Yeah, that sort of messes it up, doesn't it? Okay, let's say the map can see through the effects of Polyjuice Potion, but not the more complete transformation of an Animagus... Neil From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 16:50:07 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:50:07 +0200 Subject: Intentionality & Magic References: <8t44r0+amnj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004b01c03dda$7717fec0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4552 > This whole "intent" thing just seems so important to understanding > magic. We are SO stuck in our perfectly logical scientific way of > looking at things (obviously, since that's the way our world works) > that it's hard to see that the Wizarding World just operates by > different logic. Bravo Steve! Every once in a while I have the feeling that we're trying to explain certain HP questions using the wrong set of premises. A while back, I read posts in which people were proposing that Harry's blood would cause a catastrophic reaction in the Big V's immune system. Hey Presto!--Voldy dies of the measles ... That's an exagerated example, but it can apply to less wacky analysis, too. Certain rules of rationality *do* apply to magic (I mean, Skelegro doesn't ever seem to do what Pepper Up does), but the intent (or needs) of the magician seems to create the context in which the magic works. We're so used to computers that we can't quite imagine anything simply working without requiring a Ph.D. in information technology, 37 beta cycles and the intelligence (or lack thereof) required to wade through 18 magabytes of useless information, in hopes of finding the file I started last Thursday. And that, I think, is precisely why wizards stick to magic. Of course, if the magic in the map was smart enough to figure out which information was or was not pertinent to Harry, one can also wonder why it *wasn't* smart enough to print BARTY CROUCH JR.--SERIUOSLY EVIL BADGUY!!! in flashing red letters and do a little police siren imitation ... Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Oct 24 17:00:10 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:00:10 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My animagus/nightmares In-Reply-To: <01c401c03d93$c52691e0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4553 Mike, I really love your messages -- thank you for the smiles you provide with your posts. Sister Mary Lunatic (chews her cud stoically in the face of mad cow disease) -----Original Message----- From: Aberforths_Goat [mailto:Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 1:24 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] My animagus/nightmares From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Oct 24 17:04:12 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:04:12 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map In-Reply-To: <01c03dd8$09e66be0$ab5d073e@warmsley> Message-ID: <8t4fec+utug@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4554 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Warmsley" wrote: > >As I mentioned earlier, there is evidence that the map has a > mind of > >its own. Perhaps it tunes in to the thoughts of the reader and > shows > >what the reader needs to see. Lupin could see Pettigrew > because he > >knew Pettigrew was an Animagus. Maybe Harry et al only saw > Scabbers > >because that's how they knew him. > > But Harry saw Moody as Crouch... > > Jeremy Well, here's another idea. What lives in the map, I suppose, is an animating spirit which has been bewitched to echo the thinking processes of its creators. It would be something like the sorting hat, or a benign version of the Riddle diary. The map would then be able to recognize Snape and insult him. Harry, Fred and George, keeping in mind Mr. Weasley's warning, intend to use the map only to find their way through the corridors without getting caught, so maybe the map only shows them those entities which might hinder them from doing this. Pettigrew, asleep in the dormitory, isn't a danger in that respect, but Crouch, moving around the castle, is. Lupin, whose motive is to protect Harry, is using the map for a different purpose and might see different things. Pippin From vderark at bccs.org Tue Oct 24 17:41:38 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:41:38 -0000 Subject: Intentionality & Magic In-Reply-To: <004b01c03dda$7717fec0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t4hki+fsfl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4555 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforths_Goat" wrote: > > This whole "intent" thing just seems so important to understanding > > magic. We are SO stuck in our perfectly logical scientific way of > > looking at things (obviously, since that's the way our world works) > > that it's hard to see that the Wizarding World just operates by > > different logic. > > Bravo Steve! Okay, I'm copying this over to show my wife. ;) (See, honey? All that time working on Harry Potter stuff is paying off! Did you see what he said? That's me he's talking about there, yes, sir...!) > Of course, if the magic in the map was smart enough to figure out which > information was or was not pertinent to Harry, one can also wonder why it > *wasn't* smart enough to print BARTY CROUCH JR.--SERIUOSLY EVIL BADGUY!!! in > flashing red letters and do a little police siren imitation ... I don't see the map as providing the intent. I see that coming from the wizard and the map being a fairly neutral servant. The level of intelligence in the map isn't as well-defined as Tom Riddle's diary was toward the end, and that's probably only because of his sucking in some of Ginny's life force. There is a certain element of personality there, which we see when it talks to Snape, but that was almost like an Easter egg in the program, to borrow from the complete antithesis of magic, the computer. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Oct 24 17:45:30 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:45:30 -0000 Subject: Car vs goat/animagi (again) - a bit OT In-Reply-To: <01c401c03d93$c52691e0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t4hrq+q8pm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4556 Aberforths_Goat wrote: <<>> Don't get me revved up, shaggy! In a head-butting contest, my car would easily beat your goat :-) *** Then, Ab's Goat was thinking of becoming a cow... <<>> So, how do animals turn back into humans...? Just a thought (which we've undoubtedly had before). Does McGonagall think in 'cat' when she's a cat? Is she tempted to run along people's back fences yowling when she should be back at Hogwarts chalking up today's Transfiguration lesson on the blackboard? "Prrrrrr. I know I'm supposed to be teaching those third year students this afternoon, but these smelly dustbins are awfully tempting! I think I'll just sniff around here a bit longer." *** Neil (Class of '79, in case anyone was wondering why Catlady said, in relation to Hogwarts' school years: "Sorry Neil") From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Oct 24 17:53:41 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:53:41 -0000 Subject: chapter 16 and food In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8t4ib5+37h5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4557 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Rita wrote: "I can't believe that an entire school could have all one > personality (Ravenclaw for Beauxbaton, Slytherin for Durmstrang)." > > The important point was to get one champion on each of the house tables. It > was also to show that, even though Durmstrang students are considered to be > untrustworthy and so on (i.e. like the Slytherin's), they are not all like > this. It is also an indication that some of the Slytherin's may actually be > nice people - shame about Malfoy and co. > The more important thing was to select Cedric, from Hufflepuff, for > Hogwarts. The interaction between him and Harry I could not see having > happened if he was from any other house (even Gryffindor). This only left > Ravenclaw for Beuaxbaton. I can see Fleur as being quite hard working, but > also she seems to know how to turn on the charm. > > > Kaitlin wrote: "He seems to be like Durmstrang's Harry Potter-the miraculous > Quiddich seeker and the Headmaster's favorite boy." > Rita replied: "Interesting comparison! Are you implying that Harry is > spoiled?" > > Harry is spoiled in so much that he gets away with a lot. Especially things > like nighttime wanderings during the holiday. However I will say that I > could see Dumbledore using such happenings to teach any student important > lessons rather than just giving them weeks of detentions. > > Rita wrote: "I find it astonishing that the only time that Hermione has had > bouillabaisse is when she vacationed in France with her parents. Here in > Southern California, many many restaurants that are not French restaurants > serve boullabaisse and some people cook it at home" > Joywitch replied: "I dont find it that astonishing, after all (at the risk > of offending several members of this group, although I really dont mean to) > the English are not exactly known for their cooking." > Rita wrote: "Even so, I find it astonishing that Ron could be SO suspicious > of a nice recognizable stew/soup of seafood and garlic in clear broth. Then > the doubtless deliberately joke that, having refused the nice bouillabaisse, > he helps himself to black pudding. What's called Black Pudding in Irish > diners in NYC is called Blood Pudding in German diners in NYC - it's made of > coagulated blood - I think it's disgusting." > > I think I will go away and sulk. The English cookery skills have been > insulted - and not for the first time. > From my knowledge of different cuisines, Britain now has one of the most > diverse and interesting variations of foods available. I just checked in a > guidebook, of restaurants in Oxford, and the list of available cuisines is > amazing. > Having said that I can understand Ron and Harry not knowing what > Bouillabaisse is. I had to look it up to find out and I have sampled many > different foods (having said that I eat little seafood so this may be the > reason). I can understand Ron's reaction. My college dinning hall food can > be terrible (this is why I am living in one of the other blocks - the chef > down here can cook brilliantly). Just because you can recognize what is in > it does not mean that it is edible. Also if I were to cook something like > that I would call it either seafood or fish stew. I do not know many of the > proper names for dishes - I just label them by what is in it. > > I also ask the question: Is it the idea of blood pudding that is disliked or > have you actually tried it? > I know plenty of people who will not try it because they dislike the idea of > it but I myself rather like it and do eat it. > > Simon IMo the bouillabaisse passage was another lesson Rowling added. Ron refuses to taste the bouillabaisse because 1. he's never heard of it and 2. the idea of a fish soup puts him off so he opts for the Black Pudding, which is more familiar to him. The point is most cultures have "odd" foods. I remember when raw fish with vinegar soaked rice and wrapped in seaweed was considered *yucky*, but now sushi has become quite trendy. Ditto for gravlax. As an aside I remember when an acquaintance found out what goes into Haggis and thought it was *gross*. Yet, she liked scrapple (the American South's version of haggis made with cornmeal rather than oats) and she liked hotdogs. Some people, like Ron and Harry, are comfortable with the familiar. :-)Milz From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Oct 24 18:15:42 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:15:42 -0700 Subject: Title Revelation not a Mistake Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4558 ...See -- all we have to do is get a cute little kid to ask JKR our most pressing questions. Then we'll get answers!... Monday October 23 6:11 PM ET Rowling Says Revealing Book Title Not a Mistake TORONTO (Reuters) - J.K. Rowling (news - web sites), author of the extraordinarily popular Harry Potter (news - web sites) children's books said on Monday that revealing the title of her next book, ``Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix,'' to a child in New York last week was not a mistake. "I didn't expect to do it now at all, but I did say after ''Goblet of Fire'' that I wouldn't keep it a secret," said Rowling, who was in Toronto for the International Festival of Authors. Rowling added that she could not handle the pressure of keeping such a big secret and she did not want people to sift through her garbage. ``I didn't have plans to say it just now. I thought I would at some point but then there was this really, really cute little boy who asked and I thought, oh, he'd look so happy if I told him,'' she said. The British-born, single mother who wrote the first Harry Potter novel because she could not afford to heat her apartment said she ``only decided a couple of weeks ago what the title was going to be.'' Other details of the book were scant, although Rowling did say at a press conference on Sunday that the fifth Harry Potter book should be shorter than number four. Rowling is in Toronto as part of the annual authors festival. She will read at the city's 50,000-seat SkyDome stadium on Tuesday with Canadian authors Kenneth Oppel and Tim Wynne-Jones. The event may prove to be Rowling's largest event to date, with the number of ticket sold well into five figures. The event could herald Rowling's entry into the Guinness Book of Records for the largest paid audience for an author's reading. Rowling expressed her fear of speaking in front of such a large crowd, insisting she's ``not the Rolling Stones.'' http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20001023/re/canada_rowling_dc_1.html From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 24 19:51:17 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:51:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (unknown) References: <8t47ng+nvks@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F5E835.7FB87F80@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4559 Brian Dorband wrote: > The above article was on the web yesterday. Did WE know about this? > I'll need to check my copy tonight. Not really intriguing - just a > mistake... Yeah, someone reported it, and we found it had been corrected in the American edition. I posted the page numbers for the American version, if you want to search back. --Amanda From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 24 20:46:40 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:46:40 -0000 Subject: Things to ask Jo. In-Reply-To: <004a01c03dd7$55a95e80$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t4sfg+u4ed@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4560 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforths_Goat" wrote: > > Besides that, there's only one thing I simply have to know if I'm going to > keep out of the psycho ward: *Why did Moody pull the whole goblet stunt just > to get Harry to a portkey?* Our questions about the number of students at > Hogwarts are difficult, too--but the portkey problem is a central plot > issue. The question has been bouncing around since July the 8th, and it > really needs an answer. Pretty please? With icing and whizzing fizbees on > top?? The most recently reasonable explanation I have heard was that it wasn't only a portkey to take harry away - it was also a portkey to bring Voldemort onto Hogwarts' grounds - and that's why by touching it, Harry was able to return to just outside the maze - the cup was always a portkey - it was configured by the triwizard organizers to transport the first person to touch it to the front of the maze - and crouch knew it - what he did was add in an extra stop - the graveyard - do the first touch would send the toucher to the graveyard, and hte second touch would send the toucher back to the front of the maze. If everything had gone according to this plan, Harry would've been transported to the grave, used for Voldemort's rebirth, then killed, then Voldemort would've used the portkey to get back to Hogwarts, and go all serial killer-ish there, since you can't apparate onto hogwarts grounds, and presumptively, the other defenses that the school has against attacks by evil psychopaths would've been breachable by a portkey configured from inside the school grounds. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 20:45:52 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:45:52 +0200 Subject: Smart Maps, Being a Goat & Alternative Lifestyles References: <1.5.4.32.20001023205101.008e1714@popmail.dircon.co.uk> <01c401c03d93$c52691e0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> <39F599F9.C794B7FF@texas.net> Message-ID: <006f01c03dfb$66c44bc0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4561 > I don't see the map as providing the intent. I see that coming from > the wizard and the map being a fairly neutral servant. The level of > intelligence in the map isn't as well-defined as Tom Riddle's diary > was toward the end, and that's probably only because of his sucking > in some of Ginny's life force. There is a certain element of > personality there, which we see when it talks to Snape, but that was > almost like an Easter egg in the program, to borrow from the complete > antithesis of magic, the computer. Hmm. You're saying that it only shows you things you're on the lookout for? Thus, Harry is on the look out for Snape or Filch, so it would show either. Harry is also on the lookout for any odd activity, so it shows Barty/Moody breaking into Snape's office. But it doesn't show 997 snoring Hogwarts students, since Harry isn't on the look out for them. Nor, presumably, does it show Fawcet & Stebbins (who have snuck out for a surreptitious smooch), since Harry isn't on the look out for them either. Or does it--inasmuch as that constitutes odd (albeit harmless) activity? (Harmless for Harry, I mean.) And what about Neville, who just snuck over for a desperate peek into Harry's Potions assignment? Does he make the cut? The map certainly has its work cut out for it--but I still like the theory. In fact, I think that's precisely the kind of qualitative decision we could expect Magic (but not Microsoft) to accomplish. Bur why doesn't Harry think to sit down and look at the map with the intention of seeing anything dangerous to his well being? Because it would ruin the plot, of course. * * * * * * * * > Mike, I really love your messages -- thank you for the smiles you provide > with your posts. Glad to oblige--thanks sister! * * * * * * * * > And they should go through life hoping they will? It says "don't let the bedbugs > bite," not "sit there and take it." Sounds pretty active and assertive to me. Oh Bugs! I think I've put my hoof in my mouth again. Just don't take me too seriously, OK? A guy's got to be irresponsible somewhere, sometime--and HP4GU happens to be permanently stuck in the wrong place ... And who am I? Myself, of course! Check GoF for the passag where Dumbledore is helping Hagrid come out of the closet about being a half-giant: "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papaers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high and went about his business as usual! Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been bravery ... " * * * * * * * * Which reminds me: Must say I can't quite fathom all those sweaty-palmed discussions about whether JKR lacks the hagis lining to profile certain alternative lifestyles. Talk about straining for gnats and swallowing ... er ... camels. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat ------------------------------------ Very Important Disclaimers Part 1: I'm not really a goat. Usually, I don't even smell like one. Part 2: This handle is not meant to encourage improper behavior with goats. In fact, its creator is a well-mannered anabaptist theologian with a wife and two children, and he feels a little sheepish about this whole business. From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Tue Oct 24 21:18:09 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:18:09 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Oterrey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter References: <8t2dfe+22k7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01bc01c03e01$55a2dcc0$e250893e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4562 From: > Were you walking? Maybe you have the wrong St Mary! Ottery St May > to Churligh is 20.4 Miles - as seen below from The AA The AA man has never driven in Devon I spent three years doing just that. Mind you I do drive a Metro (do they have metros anywhere else in the world? Probably not Britains best export.) with a very low top speed. A proper car could probably do it in 40-50 but I'm afraid as I travelled with students we didn't ever have one of those. Its on Dartmoor and takes much longer than 26 minutes even in a better car. Having said that the AA man says it takes 25 minutes for me to get to my placement actually it takes 1:20. Of course in miles in isn't very far but neither the A30 or A38 are very fast moving too many tractors (and caravans in season). BTW I meant Stoke Woods not Stoke Hill which is an Exeter suburb albeit a very posh one, so it likes to think its a village. Oh I also read somewhere sorry my sieve memory can't remember where that UCH (nearest A&E to Kings Cross) has had an influx (probably 3 or 4) of children who have hurt themselves trying to walk through the barrier between platforms 9 & 10. I am sceptical because IIRC correctly there is no barrier between them. College is a short walk away so I'll check that out next week. As for whether it is a chioldrens book or not I too reserve comment however certainly the persons who run Exeter would consider it one. As my mother reminded me they also look down on teachers (as a trainee one again I won't comment) which would have been another point against her. I can't remeber who said she only became popular 98/99 when I wasn't working hard for my finals my point though poorly expressed was meant to be that they should have been helping her gain an audience. Where was the award winning school of education? Heather, speaking from sad experience as far as being stuck behind tractors goes. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 21:42:15 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:42:15 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew/Scabbers & Marauders' Map In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8t4vnn+9q83@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4563 Ok, I just have to ask...Isn't it possible that they saw PP on the map and just didn't think about it. That's assuming they didn't know the name. After all there are 1000 students in the school! And even if he was in the Gryffindor common room or dorms they might not of thought about it. I mean, would you know all (approx.) 250 of the kids in your house. Know OF them maybe but I seriously doubt that you would recognise all their names... Scott --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SHENmagic at a... wrote: > > In Message: 17 Digest Number 207 dated 10/23/00 9:59:46 AM, Penny > Linsenmayer > > >Subject: Re: Scabbers > > >But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just > > > >"slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says > > > >that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have > > > >prevented himself from showing up on it. > > >Penny > It makes sense that when the Map was created, it was spelled so that none of > the Marauders were invisible /non-show to each other. They would want to be > able to see where each one of them was, in case they were positioning for a > prank, or in need of a rescue. Since the Map was spelled to go blank > ("Mischief managed"), I will also venture that they anticipated it might be > seen or "captured" by non-marauder eyes and perhaps it was also spelled that > non - Marauder eyes would NOT see any of the Marauders. > Alternately, it's possible Fred & George did not notice that "Peter > Pettigrew" was hanging around near Percy (whom I suspect did not take him out > of the dorm), or they may not have checked the dorms when they were > consulting the map; most of their mischief probably took place outside > Griffindor. Harry had the map a relatively short time, perhaps he, too, only > checked outside the Griffindor house, or along the routes he was planning to > take when he consulted it. > > > > Aylihael (who did one heck of a cut and paste at the beginning of this > message) > > ??? We are the ones who chase pixies, > Run with the unicorns, Dance with the faeries, > Sing with the sirens, Soar with the phoenixes, > And swim with the mermaids. > We are the ones who believe in the Unbelievable. > We are the ones who dare to dream.??? > ~author unknown From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 24 21:44:42 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:44:42 -0000 Subject: Title Revelation not a Mistake In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8t4vsa+jgoo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4564 > ...See -- all we have to do is get a cute little kid to ask JKR our most pressing questions. > Then we'll get answers!... Yes, maybe... but then again, if we just show her how much we adore her books, then perhaps she will answer our questions. I feel we should not ask direct questions... but rather provide a discussion regarding the subject - letting her read our discussion - and encouraging her to take part. After all, she must get fed up of being asked direct questions - and Fiddy (Jo's seceratary) would answer any direct questions, when writing to her, we need to make it stand out from the crowd. On the subject of titles... I believe Jo's title is correct. But I don't understand why WB have registered 3 other titles - can anyone shed any light on that. Does anyone know what "Furmat" means? - I don't think it's a place. ************************ * Nearly Headless Nick * * (in need of a slogan)* ************************ From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 24 21:39:45 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:39:45 -0000 Subject: More Movie News Message-ID: <8t4vj1+t7nn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4565 Hi all I was working tonight and got chatting to the mother of the children I was caring for... The children in the Harry Potter movie will change as the movie proceeds through production. The main characters, and the Quidditch teams will be the same... but the extras will change on a regular basis. This appears to be due to some employment law regarding casting of extras - if anyone knows anything about that, please provide info. The reason I got to know this is because one of the children I care for has an interview (if you call it that) for a part as an extra... but the interview is not until December - and thus would not be for shooting until early next year. For those interested, one of the stage schools providing extras is Redroofs in Maidenhead, Berkshire. Other stage schools around the South East of England are also providing extras. That's the latest gossip. Nick. From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Tue Oct 24 22:03:33 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:03:33 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) Message-ID: <11.ac12809.27276135@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4566 Er, *half* a man...half giant. Giants as a whole probably aren't easily frightened; the humaness in him is probably the loyal part. I imagine giants not to be particularly loyal, as we define the word. << These are not the actions of a man easily frightened. Jinx >> From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 24 22:16:45 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:16:45 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore - translations Message-ID: <8t51od+b4um@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4567 Hi all Just been reading "An interview with JK Rowling" He is a piece from it which I thought you might be interested in: "In the Italian translation... Professor Dumbledore has been translated into Professore Silencio. The translator has take the 'dumb' from the name and based the translation on that. In fact 'dumbledore' is the Old English word for bumblebee. I chose it because my image is of this benign wizard, always on the move, humming to himself, and I loved the sound of the word too. For me Silencio is a complete contradiction. But the book is very popular in Italy - so it obviously doesn't bother the Italians!" So... maybe my theory of Dubledore turing into a bublebee is wrong... but he certainly is 'always on the move' and he can do that without people noticing. Nick. PS. If you can't get this book in your country and you want a copy... I have a few spares - so can mail them. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 24 22:19:56 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:19:56 -0400 Subject: JKR is VERY powerful Message-ID: <39F60B0C.DE58CFFF@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4568 Entertainment Weekly just named JKR the 5th most powerful person in showbiz. That's up from Harry being named the 101st most powerful last year - the largest jump in the list's history... From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 24 22:29:55 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 24 Oct 2000 22:29:55 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972426595.60971@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4569 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Geographic Locations/plat9-10.jpg Uploaded by : nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Description : Platform 9 & 10 at Kings Cross (9 is on Right, 10 on Left) You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Geographic+Locations/plat9-10%2Ejpg To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 22:31:51 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:31:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: yet another Marauder's Map question Message-ID: <20001024223151.18836.qmail@web4804.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4570 --- SHENmagic at aol.com wrote: > They would want to be > able to see where each one of them was, > in case they were positioning for > a prank, or in need of a rescue. This question brings me to a totally different question about the M.M: Is there more than one? I'd always assumed there was only one, but from this question, it sounds as though each of the Marauders had one. And for all we know, maybe they did. If so, I wonder where the other three Marauders' Maps are now (in Harry's time, that is). Just a couple more knutes to mull over. Melanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 22:34:17 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (r d) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore - translations Message-ID: <20001024223417.17294.qmail@web1502.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4571 Reading this reminds me that in SS/PS when Harry is in the room with the Mirror of Erised and Dumbledore says, "I don't need a cloak to become invisible." This leads me to believe that Dumbledore can make himself invisible at will, much the same way that Animagi can turn themselves in to animals at will. I wonder if it is something that some wizzards/witches choose to learn, the way some decided to become Animagi. Any thoughts? Elizabeth --- nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > Hi all > > Just been reading "An interview with JK Rowling" > > He is a piece from it which I thought you might be > interested in: > > "In the Italian translation... Professor Dumbledore > has been > translated into Professore Silencio. The translator > has take > the 'dumb' from the name and based the translation > on that. In > fact 'dumbledore' is the Old English word for > bumblebee. I chose it > because my image is of this benign wizard, always on > the move, > humming to himself, and I loved the sound of the > word too. For me > Silencio is a complete contradiction. But the book > is very popular > in Italy - so it obviously doesn't bother the > Italians!" > > So... maybe my theory of Dubledore turing into a > bublebee is wrong... > but he certainly is 'always on the move' and he can > do that without > people noticing. > > Nick. > > PS. If you can't get this book in your country and > you want a copy... > I have a few spares - so can mail them. > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Oct 24 22:48:46 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 15:48:46 -0700 Subject: Harry Potter and the Skewed Scar In-Reply-To: <017201c03d8c$593a90a0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> References: <8svfjc+qk3u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001024154236.0254abe0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4572 Has anyone seen the new Harry Potter merchandise and how they depict Harry? Am I crazy or is the scar all wrong? They have it not vertical (like GranPre's illios) but diagonal, almost horizontal! I don't think JKR ever gives the orientation of the scar, but she *does* say it's shaped like a thunderbolt, and who ever heard of a horizontal thunderbolt??? What do you think? Do I protest too much? -- Dave From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 24 23:47:32 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 18:47:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New file uploaded to HPforGrownups References: <972426595.60971@egroups.com> Message-ID: <00a101c03e14$ce502200$57cdd2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4573 Ok, now I am totally confused. I sorta pictured the platforms like: Platform # = 09090 9|101010 09 | 10 trackstrackstrackstrackstrackstrackstrackstrackstrackstrackstrackstracks Now, if I am wrong, ok. I just haven't ever rode a train anywhere except in a circle around Cedar Point! :) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 5:29 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Geographic Locations/plat9-10.jpg Uploaded by : nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Description : Platform 9 & 10 at Kings Cross (9 is on Right, 10 on Left) You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Geographic+Locations/plat9-10%2Ejpg To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 24 22:52:31 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:52:31 -0500 Subject: HP Merchandise Message-ID: <39F612AF.3D9A522D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4574 Hi -- Can anyone tell me why all the Christmas ornaments that used to be in the "Harry Potter Store" on wbstore.com are no longer there? Are we to believe that they are sold out? Must I resort to ebay now? My chief complaint about their online site is that things seem to just "disappear" rather frequently. I wish they would list out ALL the merchandise, with an indication that it is "in stock," 'temporarily back ordered," or "sold out, no longer available." Why would this be hard???! Very annoying. I was trying to list out stuff I want for Christmas gifts & I can no longer describe the WB ornaments since they are no longer there. I just remember that I liked a few of them. The other thing about the merchandise . . . WHY does Harry need to look stoned? I *hate* the WB artist who has done the mugs, calendars, posters, etc. The bookends & some of the other stuff looks fine to me, but in the mugs, etc., he looks *stoned.* Doesn't he? Ron doesn't fare much better I'm afraid; he looks a bit weird as well. Hermione looks "okay," other than they have made her a blue-eyed blonde. Do the artists *read* the books? I realize I'm preaching to the choir but . . . good grief. I bought 2 of the Dept 56 "secret boxes" at B&N today. The boxes are exactly the same size, and I assumed my boxes would be the same size. No, Harry in the Sorting Hat is quite a bit larger than Hermione the Bookworm. They look a bit weird sitting side by side but . . . there they sit. Why aren't they proportional? It's intended that the consumer will buy all 6 of them so . . . why wouldn't you design them so that they would all look proportional when displayed next to each other? Penny From warmsley at btinternet.com Tue Oct 24 23:40:52 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 00:40:52 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Oterrey St Catchpole/ St Mary /Exeter Message-ID: <01c03e13$d8e8a580$ab5d073e@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 4575 >Oh I also read somewhere sorry my sieve memory can't remember where that UCH >(nearest A&E to Kings Cross) has had an influx (probably 3 or 4) of children >who have hurt themselves trying to walk through the barrier between >platforms 9 & 10. I am sceptical because IIRC correctly there is no barrier >between them. College is a short walk away so I'll check that out next week. I checked it out last time I was there - no barrier. How very disappointing, eh? Jeremy From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 25 01:46:35 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:46:35 -0000 Subject: Picture of Platforms 9 and 10... Message-ID: <8t5e1r+sjvk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4576 Okay, after looking at this picture I have to bite. Where is the wall between the platforms? I mean, surely, SURELY Jo R. wouldn't put in such a great gaping hole!!! Scott (Who has had many bad experiences on trains) From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 25 02:19:41 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:19:41 -0000 Subject: Molly Weasley's hair color Message-ID: <8t5fvt+v7hj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4577 PoA U.S.A. version, p. 8 "..and a grin spread across his face as he saw all nine of the Weasleys waving furiously at him, standing in front of a large pyramid. Plump little Mrs. Weasley; tall balding Mr. Weasley; six sons; and one daughter, all (though the black-and-white picture didn't show it) with flaming red hair." Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 25 02:29:13 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:29:13 -0000 Subject: Lockhart's Double? In-Reply-To: <017201c03d8c$593a90a0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t5ghp+m5jd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4578 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforths_Goat" wrote: > > be interested in keeping his name. I think that she really thinks he is so much of a jerk that she based Gilderoy Lockhart on him. After all, she has said that Lockhart is the one character she consciously based on someone > > Say, that's quite a thought. They're both writers. They're both people who (at least from JKR point of view) look a lot less charming up close and personal than on their pedestals. > > Baaaaaa! > > Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) Hmmmm, and remember that Hermione --- JKR's alter ego in the series - has a major crush on Gilderoy... AND her portrait of Lockhart is actually quite vicious....all the pictures in hair curlers in his office...and he really is ready to leave GW to her fate (as well as everyone else in the castle) AND obliterate HP and RW's memories..his cowardice makes him quite evil..... Susan From lj2d30 at gateway.net Wed Oct 25 02:30:13 2000 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:30:13 -0000 Subject: HP Merchandise Message-ID: <8t5gjl+fk7v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4579 So I headed out to my Hallmark store to see if they *finally* had stuff and found that yes, indeedy, they did. Wrapping paper, tissue paper, and ribbons. Pens that light up (I did think these were cool!) Bookends of Harry entering through the Pink Lady's portrait hole and Hermione and Ron in the Gryffindor great room, the pewter ornaments (not all of them, just Harry, Dumbledore, Hedwig, and Hermione, a puzzle of a quidditch match between Slytherin and Gryffindor, a quill stand with ink pen quill, a Wizard's Journal with a deep green cover and a holographic image changing between a picture of Hogwarts and the Hogwarts crest, black pages and coming with a green gel pen, another diary with Hermione and potions bottles holographically interchanging (all Hermione stuff had potions bottles. I think because of the Potions logic task in S/PS) and a holographic picture frame. I did get get the Wizard's journal for my 10 yo cousin for Christmas. I had picked one out at the school book fair earlier this week (Scholastic), but I won't get it. The ones at the book fair weren't quite as cool. One had a purple cover with the 4 houses' banners and the other was red with the Hogwarts' Express on the cover. What is it with the horizontal scar, anyway? It practically covers his whole head! And Hermione is postively glamorous. I was under the impresion that she didn't acquire glamour till the Yule ball in GoF. Of course, none this will keep me from making purchases... Just my 2 sickles. Trina From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 25 02:44:47 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:44:47 -0000 Subject: Intentionality & Magic In-Reply-To: <004b01c03dda$7717fec0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t5hev+vaij@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4580 would cause a > Of course, if the magic in the map was smart enough to figure out which > information was or was not pertinent to Harry, one can also wonder why it > *wasn't* smart enough to print BARTY CROUCH JR.--SERIUOSLY EVIL BADGUY!!! in > flashing red letters and do a little police siren imitation ... > because of GIGO...it wasn't set up for identification of evilones I don't think magic and computers are all that different myself. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 25 02:48:12 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:48:12 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map In-Reply-To: <8t4fec+utug@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t5hlc+mst3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4581 > The map would then be able to recognize Snape and insult him. > Harry, Fred and George, keeping in mind Mr. Weasley's warning, > intend to use the map only to find their way through the corridors > without getting caught, so maybe the map only shows them those > entities which might hinder them from doing this. Pettigrew, asleep in > the dormitory, isn't a danger in that respect, but Crouch, moving > around the castle, is. > Lupin, whose motive is to protect Harry, is using the map for a > different purpose and might see different things. > Pippin Oh, gosh, I'm struggling here, but magic has laws which you can't transgress. My guess is that the map shows people who are in the castle, but that Ron and Harry were very focused on getting out of the castle, and evading their professors. They probably didn't notice Peter Pettigrew on the map. So, how come the map recognizes Snape and insults him? Because the four Marauders set it up to do that in case their schoolmate Snape ever tried to use the map. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 25 02:51:58 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 02:51:58 -0000 Subject: Intentionality & Magic In-Reply-To: <8t4hki+fsfl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t5hse+ejvi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4582 > > almost like an Easter egg in the program, to borrow from the complete > antithesis of magic, the computer. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon But computers are totally like magic...I mean I don't really understand what's allowing me to connect to y'all..the whole telegraph thing (which has been laboriously explained to me) seems like magic to me.... You've got to know computers, the more you know, the more magic you can do, if some part is faulty it'll screw up (just like a stale potions ingredient), if you lose your wand, I mean modem, you can't connect, if you work tirelessly you can make it do more magic, never trust a file that thinks for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brains, things blow up, depends on skill of the user....I could go on and on... Magic Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 25 03:00:24 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:00:24 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's (school) House, (not his hut) In-Reply-To: <11.ac12809.27276135@aol.com> Message-ID: <8t5ic8+fj6o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4583 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, HarryPotterJrs at a... wrote: > Er, *half* a man...half giant. Giants as a whole probably aren't easily > frightened; the humaness in him is probably the loyal part. I imagine giants > not to be particularly loyal, as we define the word. How would you know? I think Dumbledore would say this was prejudice... Susan From terzarima at earthlink.net Wed Oct 25 03:28:11 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:28:11 -0400 Subject: From Rainy Lilac, a article relevant to the "Muggle" lawsuit Message-ID: <39F6534B.E62139C9@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4584 HEy there guys! Long time since I have posted here! It is as always great to see the club thriving and overflowing with so many topics. It is especially fun to follow all the developments in the movie-- I am thrilled that they are filming at the Bodelian Library!! The Duke Humphrey Reading Room is soooooooo Hogwarts!! I was on the net tonight and found the following article which might be of interest to those of us following Nancy Stouffer's hallucinations. It is a copy of the decision which rules that the lawsuit would be tried in NYC, a major defeat for Stouffer: http://www.nylj.com/decisions/00/08/082100b8.htm I would love to know if any of the lawyers who frequent this group have heard any updates. Also, is Stouffer still trying to target Harry Potter fans? Thanks and have a happy Halloween everyone... It is good to be back! Suzanne (aka Rainy Lilac) From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Oct 25 06:32:22 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 06:32:22 -0000 Subject: Smart Maps, Being a Goat & Alternative Lifestyles In-Reply-To: <006f01c03dfb$66c44bc0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t5upm+j2pc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4585 > > Which reminds me: Must say I can't quite fathom all those sweaty- palmed > discussions about whether JKR lacks the hagis lining to profile certain > alternative lifestyles. Talk about straining for gnats and swallowing ... er > ... camels. > > Baaaaaa! > Mike, it's not a lifestyle. Alternative lifestyles apply to people who live without iron or tools....or who like watching soaps...If you're referring to lesbian and gay people, as I assume you are, please don't trivilialize concerns by using comments such as "sweaty palms". it's important to some of us. thanks Susan From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Wed Oct 25 07:50:19 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 25 Oct 2000 07:50:19 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972460219.68274@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4586 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Book Covers and Graphics/Graphics/fawkes.gif Uploaded by : nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Description : Fawkes - drawn by JKR You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Book+Covers+and+Graphics/Graphics/fawkes%2Egif To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Oct 25 13:54:22 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:54:22 +0100 Subject: Magic rules/locations/Hogwarts' location Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001025135422.009031a0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4587 Firstly, if we were to accept the idea that the wizarding world works to a different rulebook, we could explain most things away as "just the way magic is" and stop speculating on the mysteries of Harry Potter. Where's the fun in that? When it comes to locations such as Ottery St Catchpole and the like, I take the view that JKR was inspired by places and place names but probably didn't go as far as cataloguing the grid references. And now, because I like to contradict myself, my somewhat obscure evidence for the exact location of Hogwarts Castle: At one point, the Fat Lady is described as hiding in a "map of Argyllshire on the second floor". Why would there be a map of Argyllshire there? Could it be that that's where Hogwarts is located? Check out this picture, of Inveraray Castle, which looks pretty Hogwarty to me. http://www.argyletx.com/history/argyllsh.htm Apologies Nick, if you've mentioned this before. I know this is a particular hobby of yours! I did check the archives... :) Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 25 14:39:11 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:39:11 -0500 Subject: Hogwarts' location References: <1.5.4.32.20001025135422.009031a0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F6F08F.231490B1@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4588 Hi -- Neil Ward wrote: > And now, because I like to contradict myself, my somewhat obscure > evidence for the exact location of Hogwarts Castle: At one point, the > Fat Lady is described as hiding in a "map of Argyllshire on the second > floor". Why would there be a map of Argyllshire there? Could it be > that that's where Hogwarts is located? > > Check out this picture, of Inveraray Castle, which looks pretty > Hogwarty to me. I love the looks of this castle. The setting also looks remote & perfect for Hogwarts. It's not too far of-course from our previous thoughts either -- just more to the west than we had previously conjectured. We've thought about Aberdeen, Sterling & Perth areas before -- this doesn't seem too far afield to me. Interestingly, this castle served as the training grounds for over a half million Allied troops during WWII. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 25 15:10:40 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:10:40 -0500 Subject: Welcome Back to Suzanne & Jen/Stouffer Lawsuit/Questions for Jo References: <39F6534B.E62139C9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <39F6F7F0.969D3A6D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4589 Hi -- I'm so glad to see some of our old Yahoo members drifting back in from time to time. I'd begun to wonder whether the switch to egroups had scared them away. So, welcome back to Jen P & Suzanne. STOUFFER -- Suzanne -- Heidi is doing the "FAQ" (we've got about 60 substantive/topical FAQs in some stage of completion) on the Stouffer Lawsuit. I'm sure she'll reply with the latest news when she gets a chance. I haven't heard anything lately about Stouffer targeting fan websites. Has anyone else? QUESTIONS FOR JO -- Nick I think it's a wonderful idea if you include some of our discussion threads. Maybe she would agree to do an "adults" chat for this group (or, you know, we could be persuaded to open it up to the general public I suppose -- ). I am still planning, unless there are objections, to sending her a hard-copy print-out of the FAQs once they are completed. But, it may be awhile yet on those. Suggestions -- 1. The Marauders Map threads of very recently are a good example of our twisted obsessive thought process. 2. Send her the analysis of number of students, starting with when she said it was 1000 students at the Scholastic chat. I'm *still* in the camp that is convinced that number just has to be wrong. 3. Some of the geographic threads from recent discussions, including Godric's Hollow, might be a good thing to send. Especially since that thread discusses some of the "mysteries" of what happened sequence wise on 31 Oct - 2 Nov 1981. 4. I know you said you didn't want to send specific questions -- but what about a print-out of the questions that we submitted to the various chats. None of those questions require that plots of future books be revealed. They are really focused on clearing up mysteries & inconsistencies from the first 4 books. Be sure to let us all know what her response is! FILES SECTION -- Jim Flanagan has done some reorganizing of our Files section (thanks Jim!) -- so please try to follow the new organization when you're uploading pictures, maps, drawings, etc. KINGS CROSS STATION -- There is NO barrier between Platforms 9 & 10 at King's Cross (not in April of this year anyway). It was such a disappointment! HORIZONTAL SCAR -- Dave mentioned that Harry's scar in much of the new WB & Hallmark merchandise is horizontal. I honestly hadn't noticed that -- I was so busy lamenting the fact that Harry looks like he's on LSD. I'm not surprised though. I'm really just astonished that they would not hire artists who had at least read the books (and it'd have been better if the artists were *fans* of the books IMO). How hard would it be to give Hermione brown hair & brown eyes? Why are the characters' eyes half-closed, giving them this stoned appearance? Why are their teeth depicted as solid white mass -- contributing to the overall stoned appearance? I do like the Harry in the bookends, clock & some of the other merchandise but the depictions on the posters, mugs & some other stuff is just horrid. BRITISH FOOD -- I'm with Simon -- British food should not be maligned so much! I'm also not the least bit surprised that Hermione had only had Bouillabaisse while on holiday in France or that neither Harry nor Ron had heard of it or tasted it before. Many people are only comfortable with the familiar. I can assure you that my mother & father (from Missouri & Alabama respectively & now in western Texas) have neither heard of nor tasted Bouillabaisse. On the other hand, I think it's quite likely that all 3 of them (H, H & R) have all been exposed to Indian food (which is very prevalent in Great Britain) and probably Asian foods of various varieties. Well, Harry will have been exposed only if the Dursleys ever took him & Dudders out to dinner now & again. If they only relied on Petunia's cooking, they might not have ever heard of such things. > My college dinning hall food can be terrible (this is why I am living in one of the other blocks - the chef > down here can cook brilliantly). Just because you can recognize what is in > it does not mean that it is edible. > Having lived for 6 weeks at Emmanuel College in Cambridge, I can vouch for this generality. We poured mounds of the ubiquitous British "brown sauce" over virtually everything served in the dining hall. :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From faerysneezes at yahoo.com Wed Oct 25 15:36:59 2000 From: faerysneezes at yahoo.com (faerysneezes at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:36:59 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map In-Reply-To: <8t5hlc+mst3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t6umr+77l6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4590 > So, how come the map recognizes Snape and insults him? Because > the four Marauders set it up to do that in case their schoolmate > Snape ever tried to use the map. > > Susan And considering that the first time Snape encounters the map he was prodding at it with his wand, that might be why it insulted him. And didn't he say his name at it too? Whereas when he passes by Lupin's desk and finds the map there, he sees whats going on around the whomping willow and he only give a glance at the map. He does not try and stick his extremely large nose into other peoples business--the slimeball!-- (gosh i love that map!) and therefore maybe the map didn't produce any insults a second time... norevoli From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Oct 25 15:41:11 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:41:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts' location Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001025154111.00929708@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4591 Penny wrote, about Inveraray Castle: >I love the looks of this castle. The setting also looks remote & >perfect for Hogwarts. It's not too far of-course from our previous >thoughts either -- just more to the west than we had previously >conjectured. We've thought about Aberdeen, Sterling & Perth areas >before -- this doesn't seem too far afield to me. Interestingly, this >castle served as the training grounds for over a half million Allied >troops during WWII. I neglected to point out the connection with Argyle, Texas, evident from the link in my original post. I thought that might appeal to Penny... Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Oct 25 15:48:33 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:48:33 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map In-Reply-To: <8t6umr+77l6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t6vch+t38i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4592 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, faerysneezes at y... wrote: > > > So, how come the map recognizes Snape and insults him? Because > > the four Marauders set it up to do that in case their schoolmate > > Snape ever tried to use the map. > > > > Susan > > > And considering that the first time Snape encounters the map he was > prodding at it with his wand, that might be why it insulted him. And > didn't he say his name at it too? Whereas when he passes by Lupin's > desk and finds the map there, he sees whats going on around the > whomping willow and he only give a glance at the map. He does not try > and stick his extremely large nose into other peoples business--the > slimeball!-- (gosh i love that map!) and therefore maybe the map > didn't produce any insults a second time... > > norevoli Snape commanded the Map to reveal its secret..."I Professor Snape, master at Hogwarts, command you..." (or something similiar). I think the Map works on the same principal as the Moody's Foe Glass. The people who are of concern to the viewer are the ones who show up on the map. Recall, the Twins told Harry the secret phrase to use the map and the secret phrase to erase the map. Maybe Lupin was using the Map to how and when Sirius was entering Hogwarts, when he spotted Harry, Ron and Hermione. :-) Milz From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 25 15:51:47 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:51:47 -0000 Subject: LA Times JKR Interview Message-ID: <8t6vij+j4it@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4593 Today's Los Angeles Times has an interview with JKR. Nothing startling, but she had this to say about Dudley. Recently she was asked why Harry's cousin, Dudley Dursley was so fat. Rowling laughed. "I was told it would be politically incorrect to have a child so large," she said. "My response was that this was about abuse. It was abusive that the people around him are feeding him not only with their putrid ideas, but with food, like a goose. He's a victim of his parents." The full interview is at http://www.latimes.com/living/20001024/t000101702.html at least for today From lrcjestes at msn.com Wed Oct 25 16:40:17 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:40:17 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Car vs goat/animagi (again) - a bit OT References: <8t4hrq+q8pm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001101c03ea2$44301600$d5af20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4594 > So, how do animals turn back into humans...? Just a thought (which > we've undoubtedly had before). Does McGonagall think in 'cat' when > she's a cat? Is she tempted to run along people's back fences yowling > when she should be back at Hogwarts chalking up today's > Transfiguration lesson on the blackboard? Well Sirius makes the point that his emotions are simpler in dog form, so my guess is that they think differently in their animagus forms...maybe more like a thinking dog rather than a human in a dog exterior? Did that make sense? carole From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Wed Oct 25 16:51:33 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:51:33 -0000 Subject: Harry's grandparents Message-ID: <8t732l+4uc0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4595 Well we know one of Harry's grandparents is named Potter and another Evans, I'll bet one of the other two is named Granger. Maybe that's why Harry and Hermione seem to love each other but not romantically, they're cousins. From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 17:27:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:27:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's grandparents References: <8t732l+4uc0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F717F1.C8085286@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4596 eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > Well we know one of Harry's grandparents is named Potter and another > Evans, I'll bet one of the other two is named Granger. Maybe that's > why Harry and Hermione seem to love each other but not romantically, > they're cousins. Can't be, as far as I can tell. The Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives. Not the only living close relatives, but only relatives there are. My turn for far-fetched theory: I'm bettin' that Harry's the last descendant of not just Gryffindor, but one or two of the other House founders too. I think he's a major target because the Slytherins would inherit the earth, getting rid of the last scion of all the rest. Just occurred to me--whatcha think? It's probably been posited before. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 17:29:45 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:29:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Car vs goat/animagi (again) - a bit OT References: <8t4hrq+q8pm@eGroups.com> <001101c03ea2$44301600$d5af20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39F71889.2FBEF86C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4597 lrcjestes wrote: > Well Sirius makes the point that his emotions are simpler in dog form, so my > guess is that they think differently in their animagus forms...maybe more > like a thinking dog rather than a human in a dog exterior? Did that make > sense? I think probably his *projected* emotions are more like a dog's. I think what goes on inside, thought-process-wise, remains on a human level. Kind of like the animal form is a mask for their emotions and thoughts, but they retain them inside. Otherwise, how could a beetle possibly eavesdrop on conversations and retain any sense of what she'd heard? Or anything of length? The things that the animagi observe as animals and later relate seem to have been absorbed with a human's powers of observation. --Amanda From terzarima at earthlink.net Wed Oct 25 17:53:57 2000 From: terzarima at earthlink.net (Suzanne Burns) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:53:57 -0400 Subject: FAQS?? Message-ID: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4598 Penny, you mentioned that Heidi was doing an FAQ about the lawsuit-- where is it? Sorry for sucha dumb question. Now that I am wandering back, I am delving into the mysteries of Egroups, and I don't know where everything is. i have looked in what seemed to be the obvious places... THANKS!! Suzanne PS My understanding was that at one point Stouffer was threatening Jenna with legal action for using the word "Muggle" on her Harry Potter Fan Club site. From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 25 17:53:45 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:53:45 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's grandparents References: <8t732l+4uc0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F71E29.D0F8CF7C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4599 Hi -- eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > Well we know one of Harry's grandparents is named Potter and another > Evans, I'll bet one of the other two is named Granger. Maybe that's > why Harry and Hermione seem to love each other but not romantically, > they're cousins. Well, first off Amanda's right -- the Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives. But, even if you believe JKR could be "fudging" on that issue, consider genealogically how it would have to work & it's clear that Harry & Hermione could not possibly be first cousins. At best, they might be second cousins but even that is a bit far-fetched if you believe that the Dursleys are his only living relatives. In any case, it's impossible that they have a blood relationship that would prevent them from marrying. It'll be hard to draw a genealogical chart into this email but I'll try to explain narratively -- 1. Harry's paternal grandparents are the Potters. His grandfather's surname was Potter. His paternal grandmother --- we will call X. 2. Harry maternal grandparents are the Evanses. His maternal grandfather's surname was Evans. His maternal grandmother -- we will call Y. 3. The Evanses have 2 known children -- Lily & Petunia. Even if Y's maiden name is Granger, that would mean that Y was a sibling of the Hermione's paternal grandfather. This would make Hermione's father a first cousin to Lily & Petunia. Hermione would be Harry's 2nd cousin if that were true. 4. The Potters only have one known child -- James. Same analysis as in #3 if X's maiden name were Granger. Don't know the rules on that in England, but it would be highly doubtful that such a tenuous relationship would prevent them from marrying. Nice try Eggplant! :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 25 18:13:30 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:13:30 -0000 Subject: Harry's grandparents In-Reply-To: <39F717F1.C8085286@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t77sa+q4o6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4600 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > eggplant88 at h... wrote: > Can't be, as far as I can tell. The Dursleys are Harry's only living > relatives. Not the only living close relatives, but only relatives there > are. Not to split heirs, but Dumble says the Dursleys are the only * family* Harry has left. (SS ch1) That is not quite the same thing, IMHO. Personally, and I'm sure this has been suggested before, I keep wondering about a certain unscrupulous person who (we suspect) is hot for Lily, has a supply of polyjuice potion and knows that James is out of the house every full moon. (Motive+method+opportunity) In which case it is really *extraordinary* how much Harry resembles James... Nooooo! if JKR does this, I will pile all seven books in the fireplace and douse them with kerosene. BTW, the idea does *not* come from Star Wars...it's from Le Morte Darthur...George stole it from Tom (Malory, not Riddle). Pippin (ducking pillows now) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Oct 25 18:26:59 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:26:59 +0100 Subject: FAQ's, harry's family, food Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4601 Suzanne wrote: "Penny, you mentioned that Heidi was doing an FAQ about the lawsuit--where is it? Sorry for sucha dumb question. Now that I am wandering back, I am delving into the mysteries of Egroups, and I don't know where everything is. i have looked in what seemed to be the obvious places..." The FAQ's at the moment are spread across the computers of several people and also in the land of existence is possible eventually. Basically by this I mean that a group of us are in the process of writing them. I am unsure about when we hope to have them completed by, and I guess we will tell the group (quite loudly) when they start going online. Bear in mind that we are writing the FAQ's in our spare time - something which I seem to have very little of at the moment. Penny wrote: "Well, first off Amanda's right -- the Dursleys are Harry's only living relatives." Well that is not quite what is said - the exact quote is: "I've come to bring Harry to his aunt and uncle. They're the only family he has left now." Which does leave the possibility of other relatives if we take it to mean that the Dursleys' are the only family left out of Harry's relatives. I do, however, believe the Dursleys' to be Harry's only remaining relatives. I guess he will have to go out and create a few more himself! Penny wrote: "BRITISH FOOD -- I'm with Simon -- British food should not be maligned so much! On the other hand, I think it's quite likely that all 3 of them (H, H & R) have all been exposed to Indian food (which is very prevalent in Great Britain) and probably Asian foods of various varieties. Well, Harry will have been exposed only if the Dursleys ever took him & Dudders out to dinner now & again. If they only relied on Petunia's cooking, they might not have ever heard of such things." I can see Petunia and Vernon being the type of people who would only eat 'proper British food' - whatever that might be. Chicken curry sandwiches for lunch today and spaghetti bolognaise (well more correctly pasta bolognaise) for dinner. Nice and varied meals are cool. Also I got through all this without having to resort to the potato (comment inserted for the benefit of Penny - who has suggested in the past that the British have to have potatoes with every meal!)! I wrote: "My college dinning hall food can be terrible (this is why I am living in one of the other blocks - the chef down here can cook brilliantly). Just because you can recognize what is in it does not mean that it is edible." Penny replied: "Having lived for 6 weeks at Emmanuel College in Cambridge, I can vouch for this generality. We poured mounds of the ubiquitous British "brown sauce" over virtually everything served in the dining hall. :--)" This left me laughing for a few minutes. The easy solution for making the food taste better! Simon From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 18:47:44 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:47:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's grandparents References: <8t77sa+q4o6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F72ACF.E4D0437A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4602 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > Not to split heirs, but Dumble says the Dursleys are the only * > family* Harry has left. (SS ch1) That is not quite the same thing, > IMHO. *ahem* "The Dursley family of number four, Privet Drive, was the reason that Harry never enjoyed his summer holidays. Uncle Vernon, Aunt Petunia, and their son, Dudley, were Harry's only living relatives." (PoA, American, p. 2). It can be argued, I suppose, that this statement is based on Harry's knowledge and is thus subject to further revelation, but coupled with what Dumbledore's already said, I'm inclined to accept this at face value. They're it. Doncha think? > Personally, and I'm sure this has been suggested before, I keep > wondering about a certain unscrupulous person who (we suspect) is hot > for Lily, has a supply of polyjuice potion and knows that James is out > of the house every full moon. (Motive+method+opportunity) In which > case it is really *extraordinary* how much Harry resembles James... Um, why's James out of the house every full moon? Presumably after he got married he stopped the moonlit revels with Lupin and the others. And Snape (who I presume is your proposed imposter) is unpleasant, conniving, nasty, and mean, but not unscrupulous. > BTW, the idea does *not* come from Star Wars...it's from Le Morte > Darthur...George stole it from Tom (Malory, not Riddle). Um, slow day here, but where was this in Star Wars? Of all the many lifted themes, the luster-disguised-as-legitimate-spouse was one I admit I missed. And 'tis not original with Malory, either; he compiled bunches of older legends, albeit with a certain genius. > Pippin (ducking pillows now) You do me far too much credit, dear; most of the projectiles handy to my terminal are small and hard or pointy, and I'm far too lazy to get up just to get you a soft one.... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 19:05:11 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:05:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marauder's Map References: <8t5hlc+mst3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F72EE6.37446A81@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4603 Susan McGee wrote: > So, how come the map recognizes Snape and insults him? Because > the four Marauders set it up to do that in case their schoolmate > Snape ever tried to use the map. But it insulted Snape as a professor at Hogwarts, not a student. I'll grant that the map insulted him by name and title because he identified himself--it was just that the insults seemed so appropriate to Snape himself, like the map knew the correct physical insults for this person, regardless of whether it knew his name. Did that make any sense? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 19:02:40 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:02:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] the "Muggle" lawsuit References: <39F6534B.E62139C9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <39F72E4F.DA7890@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4604 Can somebody either fill me in on this, or point me to where I can see what went on? Apparently this little-known wannabe happened to think of the term "Muggle" as well, and says JKR can't use it? If none of her books are in print, where does she think JKR could have seen it? Is this the essence of it? And was this loon harassing web groups? --Amanda > I was on the net tonight and found the following article which might be > of interest to those of us following Nancy Stouffer's hallucinations. It > is a copy of the decision which rules that the lawsuit would be tried in > NYC, a major defeat for Stouffer: > > http://www.nylj.com/decisions/00/08/082100b8.htm > Suzanne (aka Rainy Lilac) From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 19:09:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:09:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Intentionality & Magic References: <8t44r0+amnj@eGroups.com> <004b01c03dda$7717fec0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <39F72FF0.2CC9BE22@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4605 Aberforths_Goat wrote: > We're so > used to computers that we can't quite imagine anything simply working > without requiring a Ph.D. in information technology, 37 beta cycles and the > intelligence (or lack thereof) required to wade through 18 magabytes of > useless information, in hopes of finding the file I started last Thursday. Well, my husband usually asks me where he put it. And I work pretty well without the aforementioned. > And that, I think, is precisely why wizards stick to magic. And we stay married. --Amanda, finder of things obscure, and oftentimes things sitting in plain view in the middle of the floor, mysteriously invisible to everyone else in the house From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 19:20:08 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:20:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Things to ask Jo. References: <8t4sfg+u4ed@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F73267.1954153A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4606 heidi tandy wrote: > The most recently reasonable explanation I have heard was that it > wasn't only a portkey to take harry away - it was also a portkey to > bring Voldemort onto Hogwarts' grounds - and that's why by touching > it, Harry was able to return to just outside the maze - the cup was > always a portkey - it was configured by the triwizard organizers to > transport the first person to touch it to the front of the maze - and > crouch knew it My only problem was that Barty Jr. seemed to say in his "confession" that he'd made it a portkey to begin with. But I like the interpretation that it was always supposed to zip the winner to the front of the maze; it explains why they came back outside of it, doesn't it? Of course, that could have been built in by Barty for the convenience of his beloved master, so he [V] could hit the ground running with his new reign of terror. Am I reading too much into what Barty said? Didnt' he say he turned the cup into a Portkey? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 19:26:56 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 14:26:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New file uploaded to HPforGrownups References: <972426595.60971@egroups.com> Message-ID: <39F73400.48296F2E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4607 HPforGrownups at egroups.com wrote: > File : /Geographic Locations/plat9-10.jpg > Uploaded by : nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com > Description : Platform 9 & 10 at Kings Cross (9 is on Right, 10 on Left) It looks like a platform to me. You're standing between two parallel lines of track. You can see one train on the left. If you go past the little ticket machines, the walk is very long and goes the length of the train. As I see it. I am a bit fuzzy as to what barrier, exactly, they go through. Not what barrier in this picture (I don't see one), but what barrier in general, what's she talking about? Texans don't travel by rail much, I base my experience on Poland (where they don't put up rails because they expect you to have the sense you were born with and stay off the tracks....), and I haven't been on a train in ten years. --Amanda From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Oct 25 19:31:10 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (s_ings at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:31:10 -0000 Subject: JKR at SkyDome Message-ID: <8t7cdv+c3en@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4608 Just wanted to stop by quickly and let you all know how JKR's reading went yesterday. They saying it was the largest public reading in history. Exact attendance figures have not been released, but it was somewhere over 15,000. When she came out on stage and took one look at the size of the crowd she said "I feel like I should be leading you all to revolution". It was obvious that she was incredibly nervous, though it didn't prevent her from giving us a fabulous reading of Chapter 4 of GoF. She did stumble a bit over a few words at the beginning, but once she got going I suspect the reading just pushed the nervousness aside. Once she finished the chapter, she decided to answer some of the questions she'd been asked most frequently while in Toronto. When will book 5 be out? Not likely by July, though we won't have too long a wait and it will be called HP and the Order of the Phoenix. (not that this was news to any of us) Where does she get all her ideas? "From my head. I know that's a rather boring answer but that's the way it is." She answered the 'how do you pronounce Hermione?' question with the same "if I knew it was going to be so difficult I'd have named her Jane" response. She did confess that her references to the books coming out next year for Comic Relief were a "shameless plug" How much control do you have over the movie? "I have script approval" Do you think the movie will ruin the books for readers? "Of course not, the readers aren't idiots". She said an eighth book was unlikely. Do you think your books encourage Satanism? "No, you are a lunatic". Do you believe in magic? "Not the kind of magic they do at Hogwarts - or maybe the Ministry of Magic is making me say that". For any of the other questions (i.e. Will Harry and Cho get together, etc.) she just said we should keep reading the books. I know this is getting long, but I do want to add my general impression of the event itself. I've worked in festival organizing myself for about 3 years, and tend to notice when things aren't up to snuff. They had 3 large screens on the wall behind the stage on which they displayed such things as HP trivia, mock-ups of Daily Prophet headlines, etc. before the show. They consistently spelled Quidditch incorrectly, and referred to Nicholas "Flannel" on one of the screens (my daughter caught that one!). They had a fellow dressed in robes wandering the audience signing books as "Ablus Dumbledore". Come on, let's get it right! Sorry, but that's just shoddy work on the festival's part. During the second author's reading (JKR was the 3rd), the lighting tech kept bringing the lights up, so the kids thought JKR was appearing and drown the other author out a number of times (Pity, too, the book sounded very good). Anyway, we thoroughly enjoyed it (though I expect we were a little too far away for any of the photos to amount to much - but I'll let you know) and it was well worth the trip. Sheryll From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Oct 25 19:42:52 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:42:52 +0100 Subject: HP Merchandise Message-ID: <001201c03ebd$162d9140$25977ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4609 Hi >Can anyone tell me why all the Christmas ornaments that used to be in the "Harry Potter Store" on wbstore.com are no longer there? Can anyone tell me why WB Studio Stores Ltd are not stocking many HP items at all ! >Are we to believe that they are sold out? Must I resort to ebay now? Perhaps... maybe that is what happened to my Platform 9 3/4 Bookends - however, WBSTORE billed my credit card and accepted the order - thus I am still awaiting the goods, though WBSTORE customer services are not being of much service. >My chief complaint about their online site is that things seem to just "disappear" rather frequently. I wish they would list out ALL the merchandise, with an indication that it is "in stock," 'temporarily back ordered," or "sold out, no longer available." Why would this be hard???! Any why do they accept orders for things that are not in stock. >Very annoying. I was trying to list out stuff I want for Christmas gifts & I can no longer describe the WB ornaments since they are no longer there. I just remember that I liked a few of them. I would love to buy some HP stuff... but here in the UK, all you can get are the children's rucksacs, pens, and children sized t-shirts. My shopping trip to Kingston recently was very unproductive. You can read all about it at: http://www.broomsticks.org I think, if problems are now occuring in the US as well - it's time to create a site which concentrates on Unsatisfied customers of WB Studio Stores. I certainly am unhappy, with both WBSTORE.COM and WB Studio Stores Ltd (the UK retailer). Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Oct 25 20:12:36 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:12:36 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts' location In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001025154111.00929708@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8t7erk+j57h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4610 If we are to believe the interview by Lindsey Fraser (May 2000) then this is what Jo said about the location of Hogwarts: -- Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardy was the first thing I concentrated on. I was thinking of a place of great order, but immense danger, with children who had skills with which they could overwhelm their teachers. Locically it had to be set in a secluded place, and pretty soon I settled on Scotland in my mind. I think it was in subconscious tribute to where my parents had married. People keep saying they know what I based Hogwarts on - but they're all wrong. I have never seen a castle anywhere that looks the way I imagine Hogwarts. -- So... all we really know is that it is in Scotland - and that in reality it does not exist. Nearly Headless Nick From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Wed Oct 25 20:39:35 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:39:35 -0000 Subject: HP Merchandise In-Reply-To: <001201c03ebd$162d9140$25977ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8t7ge7+jh4b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4611 And talking of merchandise... Why can't Hallmark sell their things online? I like the Hallmark things: Harry Potter http://www.hallmark.com/hmk/Website/goto.jsp? CONTENT_KEY=QXE4381&CONTENT_TYPE=PRODUCT Hedwig the Owl http://www.hallmark.com/hmk/Website/goto.jsp? CONTENT_KEY=QXE4394&CONTENT_TYPE=PRODUCT Hermione Granger http://www.hallmark.com/hmk/Website/goto.jsp? CONTENT_KEY=QXE4391&CONTENT_TYPE=PRODUCT Hogwarts Charms http://www.hallmark.com/hmk/Website/goto.jsp? CONTENT_KEY=QXE4404&CONTENT_TYPE=PRODUCT Nick. PS. Have asked BBC Watchdog ( www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog ) to investigate why WB is not providing the same range of goods as they do in the US. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Oct 25 20:55:03 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:55:03 -0000 Subject: Things to ask Jo. In-Reply-To: <39F73267.1954153A@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t7hb7+r8ni@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4612 I don't have the book here @ work - but I am sure someone can check - my recollection is that he said that he turned the cup into a portkey which would bring Harry Potter to his Master - the sentence can be read 2 different ways, depending on the phrase you emphasize - it could mean EITHER (a) he turned it into a portkey, and said portkey would bring him to voldemort, or (b) he turned the cup, which already was a portkey, into a portkey that would bring him to voldemort instead of to the front of the maze. And since we've seen other little typos inthe books elsewhere, the fact that there's a comma in this sentence whch potentially changes the entire meaning of the sentence and thus the pivotal action by Barty Crouch, has to be taken with a little grain of salt. And on an unrelated note, the woman in the office next to me just came in & admired by Chass Game Snowglobe - her 11 year old AND her husband have read all the books, she's reading book 2 to her 7 year old daughter, and has read 1-3 herself - I am lending her my GoF Books on Tape (hi penny!) which I finished on my way home from my last day @ my old job last friday because she doesn't have time to read the actual book but wants to know what happened. And then, I'll give her DD/DS, PoU/StNE & ASA From lildreamer842 at aol.com Wed Oct 25 21:20:32 2000 From: lildreamer842 at aol.com (lildreamer842 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:20:32 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter and the Skewed Scar Message-ID: <36.d1e7828.2728a8a0@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4613 In a message dated 10/24/00 7:11:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DaveH47 at mindspring.com writes: << I don't think JKR ever gives the orientation of the scar, but she *does* say it's shaped like a thunderbolt, and who ever heard of a horizontal thunderbolt??? >> lol ... I have been thinking the same thing ...It definately wierded me out, I always pictured the scar vertically in the center of his forehead .. oh well : ) I do want that umm .... hope im spelling this right Lithograph ? the painting of them approaching hogwarts in the boats .. Im going to purchase one as soon as I get paid ... they only show the back of their heads so it doesn't mess up my image of him with a vertical scar : ) From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Wed Oct 25 21:32:08 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:32:08 -0000 Subject: Yet another Marauder's Map question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8t7jgo+40pd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4614 I think we're thinking too much on the "Why didn't ____ see ____ on the Marauder's Map?" questions. My take on it is that the information is there, but there is so much of it that the user will not see all of it. Or at least it wouldn't register in his/her mind. A muggle analogy would be looking somthing up in a dictionary. The eyes normally scan the pages for a particular word, then read the information on that word. However, that entry shares a page with anywhere from 20-50 others (depending on the size of the dictionary). Sometimes, some of these other words will "jump out" at us (or at least at me), and we'll look up their definitions too, but most of those words go unnoticed (except in where they compare alphabetically with the one we're looking up). Does that make sense? SHENmagic at a... wrote: > It makes sense that when the Map was created, it was spelled so > that none of the Marauders were invisible /non-show to each > other. They would want to be able to see where each one of > them was, in case they were positioning for a prank, or in > need of a rescue. This indirectly brings another MM question to my mind: Could there be more than one Marauder's Map? I can easily picture SHENmagic's "positioning for a prank" scenario, but it would be much easier to accomplish if each marauder had his own map. And for all we know, maybe they did (unless someone remembers a passage directly proving otherwise). If so, I wonder what ever happened to the other three maps. Just more food for thought. Melanie From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 25 21:50:14 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:50:14 -0500 Subject: FAQS?? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4615 Hi -- Suzanne Burns wrote: > Penny, you mentioned that Heidi was doing an FAQ about the lawsuit-- > where is it? > None of the FAQs are finished & posted yet. The FAQs "Committee" is still diligently at work. We each have about 10 FAQs to write, and most of us have some draft or another of about half of our FAQs. It is taking longer than we expected, partially because this group is so active. Patience -- we'll get there. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Wed Oct 25 21:51:36 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:51:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Welcome Backs/reintroduction In-Reply-To: <39F6F7F0.969D3A6D@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4616 ::waves:: Hi yall. I too have returned from being scared away by Yahoo (not eGroups, Penny!). A quick reintroduction... I'm John, 19 and in my second year at the University of St Andrews (Scotland) after spending six at boarding school in England. I'm originally from NY of Brit ancestry, so am quite good at translating British into American ;) Other hobbies include fanfiction, Trek, Pern, singing, politics and alcohol. Hey, I'm a student ;) More as soon as I read the archives... --John ===================================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com ===================================================== > I'm so glad to see some of our old Yahoo members drifting back in from > time to time. I'd begun to wonder whether the switch to egroups had > scared them away. So, welcome back to Jen P & Suzanne. From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Oct 25 21:57:39 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:57:39 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dragons Message-ID: <59.1ed0450.2728b153@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4617 Sorry to bother ya'll but I have a "dumb question of the day." Can anyone tell me what color the dragons in GoF are? My books out on loan. Thanks and, Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* Quidditch is life ... the rest is just details. From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 25 21:57:44 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:57:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New file uploaded to HPforGrownups References: <972426595.60971@egroups.com> <39F73400.48296F2E@texas.net> Message-ID: <39F75758.5918018C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4618 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I am a bit fuzzy as to what barrier, exactly, they go through. Not > what barrier in this picture (I don't see one), but what barrier in > general, what's she talking about? Texans don't travel by rail much No, we Texans do not travel by rail much at all. Prior to being disappointed at King's Cross station, I was picturing a wall of some sort. I assumed that Platforms 9 & 10 just happened to have a wall between them - a long brick one I suppose. There's absolutely no barrier of any kind though. Just a plexi-glass thing that's about 2-3 feet long & waist-high for even a short person. It's in front of the monitors that are hanging between the 2 platforms. That's it. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Oct 25 22:10:35 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 17:10:35 -0500 Subject: HP Merchandise References: <001201c03ebd$162d9140$25977ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39F75A5B.4455436E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4619 Hi -- Nick Mitchell wrote: > I think, if problems are now occuring in the US as well - it's time to > > create a site which concentrates on Unsatisfied customers of WB Studio > > Stores. I certainly am unhappy, with both WBSTORE.COM and WB Studio > > Stores Ltd (the UK retailer). > I'll join this site! I also requested a catalogue about a month ago, and it has yet to show up. And, I have quite alot of complaints about the merchandise -- namely with the artist(s) who are depicting the characters. And, of course, I have similar complaints to Nick as to how they are marketing & distributing the merchandise. I have similar complaints about Hallmark in this regard though. My Hallmark finally got their stuff in, and she did tell me that Dept 56 has sold out of all the Secret Boxes, which *are* a limited edition. Whatever is in the stores or makes it to the stores soon is all there is. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rhodhry at yahoo.no Wed Oct 25 22:32:39 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:32:39 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Yet another Marauder's Map question Message-ID: <20001025223239.21615.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4620 --- Melanie Moore skrev: [snip] > This indirectly brings another MM question to my > mind: Could there > be more than one Marauder's Map? I can easily > picture SHENmagic's > "positioning for a prank" scenario, but it would be > much easier to > accomplish if each marauder had his own map. And > for all we know, > maybe they did (unless someone remembers a passage > directly proving > otherwise). If so, I wonder what ever happened to > the other three > maps. [snip] If there were four maps, and we assume only one was confiscated by Filch, this is what I see as a likely distribution: - Lupin's map was confiscated by Filch, and later retrieved by the Weasley-twins. - James' map was destroyed with the house, when he and Lily were killed. - Sirius' map was confiscated by the Ministry following his arrest. What the Ministry would have done with it is up for speculation, as I doubt they would find out any more than Snape did in PoA. - Peter's map either (a) was in his house/home upon his disappearance and left to his heir(s) with his other possessions (b) is still in his possession (as far as I understand, when an animagus transforms, the clothes and things caried by said animagus transform as well) or (c) has been taken by Voldemort, following Peter's change of allegiance. Remus' map must be the one found in Filch's office, since he (IIRC) does not have a map of his own. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 25 22:40:38 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:40:38 -0000 Subject: Harry's grandparents In-Reply-To: <39F72ACF.E4D0437A@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t7nh6+e6al@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4621 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > It can be argued, I suppose, that this statement is based on Harry's knowledge > and is thus subject to further revelation, but coupled with what Dumbledore's > already said, I'm inclined to accept this at face value. They're it. Doncha > think? Yer right, I forgot about that line in POA. Rats! > > > > Um, why's James out of the house every full moon? Presumably after he got > married he stopped the moonlit revels with Lupin and the others. And Snape > (who I presume is your proposed imposter) is unpleasant, conniving, nasty, and > mean, but not unscrupulous. What, you think James would leave his old friend Remus to suffer as a mindless ravening monster? Why? As for Snape's scruples, he would, in this scenario, have been an active Death Eater at the time...and not yet returned to Our Side. > > > BTW, the idea does *not* come from Star Wars...it's from Le Morte > > Darthur...George stole it from Tom (Malory, not Riddle). > > Um, slow day here, but where was this in Star Wars? The hero discovers in horror that he has family ties to his enemies. > > Pippin (ducking pillows now) > most of the projectiles handy to my > terminal are small and hard or pointy, and I'm far too lazy to get up just to > get you a soft one.... > > --Amanda Virtual ouch! Pippin From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 25 22:46:04 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:46:04 -0000 Subject: Now it can be told...SS obstacles and Flitwick's position Message-ID: <8t7nrc+r8vo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4622 Devil's Snare, Sprout, head of Hufflepuff Keys: Flitwick, head of Ravenclaw Chess: McGonnagal, head of Gryffindor Troll: Quirrel Potions Puzzle: Snape, head of Slytherin Do you suppose JKR concealed the identities of the heads of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw in the first book so as to keep it from being obvious that Quirrel was the odd man out? From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 23:12:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:12:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: FAQS?? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> Message-ID: <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4623 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Patience -- we'll get there. But we haven't covered that virtue yet! (have we...?) --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 23:24:42 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:24:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dragons References: <59.1ed0450.2728b153@aol.com> Message-ID: <39F76BB9.237AD1C6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4624 mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > Sorry to bother ya'll but I have a "dumb question of the day." Can anyone > tell me what color the dragons in GoF are? My books out on loan. Okay, I found it. Swedish Short-Snout: Silvery-blue with long pointed horns Common Welsh Green: Smooth-scaled green Chinese Fireball: A red one with an odd fring of fine gold spikes around its face Hungarian Horntail: Gigantic black one, more lizard-like than the others, with long bronze-colored spikes every few inches along its tail And from book 1 Norwegian Ridgeback: Black with bulging, orange eyes (anybody find any more on Norbert?) --Amanda, delighted that JKR's dragons are animals, magic, but *animals* > > > Thanks and, > > Love & Light, > *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* > Quidditch is life ... the rest is just details. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 23:30:52 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:30:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's grandparents References: <8t7nh6+e6al@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F76D2B.31CE6AE9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4625 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > As for Snape's scruples, he would, in this scenario, have been an > active Death Eater at the time...and not yet returned to Our Side. To borrow a page from chivalry, worthy service to an unworthy lord is still worthy service. One can follow a bad leader honorably. It can be argued that he did have scruples--principles--even then; they were what caused him, for whatever reason, to turn against Voldemort and join the good side. I don't think Snape's moral fiber has ever materially been different; I just think he judges things on his own basis. I think the scenarios that others have posted were probably close to the mark--he got involved, without realizing (or wanting to realize) what Voldemort and the Death Eaters were all about, because he loved being accepted and wanted. After some moment of epiphany, he turned away from that. I don't think he was ever honestly evil. Voldemort and the Death Eaters--now *there's* a likely punk band name, eh? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Oct 25 23:32:56 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:32:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Now it can be told...SS obstacles and Flitwick's position References: <8t7nrc+r8vo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F76DA8.32B35E8E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4626 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > Devil's Snare, Sprout, head of Hufflepuff > Keys: Flitwick, head of Ravenclaw > Chess: McGonnagal, head of Gryffindor > Troll: Quirrel > Potions Puzzle: Snape, head of Slytherin > > Do you suppose JKR concealed the identities of the heads of Hufflepuff > and Ravenclaw in the first book so as to keep it from being obvious > that Quirrel was the odd man out? I think it more likely that she needed X number of puzzles to weed out characters as they went along, so that it would be Harry alone at the end. She picked likely teachers for the puzzles. There were more than four. Maybe the House headships weren't even solid then, or maybe there was just no reason to mention them yet. Flitwick still hasn't gotten an official "in print" mention. --Amanda From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Oct 25 23:48:58 2000 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:48:58 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dragons Message-ID: <52.26abdb3.2728cb6a@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4627 Thank you, Amanda! I'm glad they're animals too! Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Oct 25 23:50:40 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:50:40 -0000 Subject: Band names was Harry's grandparents In-Reply-To: <39F76D2B.31CE6AE9@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t7rkg+u261@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4628 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Voldemort and the Death Eaters--now *there's* a likely punk band name, eh? > > --Amanda Just what I said myself. post # 2355, 4th line from the bottom. :) Pippin From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 01:34:59 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:34:59 -0000 Subject: Dumledore's victory Message-ID: <8t81o3+nmsn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4629 I think that someone mentioned this but I'll ask again anyway. Does anyone know if the Dark Wizard Gridelwald (sp?) could come from Grendel, as in Beowulf. Scott From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Oct 26 02:31:01 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 02:31:01 -0000 Subject: Dumledore's victory In-Reply-To: <8t81o3+nmsn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t8515+cp33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4630 Grendel was mentioned in this connection a few days ago. Do a search on "Grendel" in the search box on the message screen. There's a photo of the cover of the novel "Grendel" by John Gardner in the club's Files section. Grindelwald is also the name of a ski town in the Swiss Alps. -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > I think that someone mentioned this but I'll ask again anyway. Does > anyone know if the Dark Wizard Gridelwald (sp?) could come from > Grendel, as in Beowulf. > > Scott From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Oct 26 03:01:50 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:01:50 -0000 Subject: Dumledore's victory In-Reply-To: <8t81o3+nmsn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t86qu+3ctc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4631 Grendel was mentioned in this connection a few days ago. Do a search on "Grendel" in the search box on the message screen. There's a photo of the cover of the novel "Grendel" by John Gardner in the club's Files section. Grindelwald is also the name of a ski town in the Swiss Alps. -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > I think that someone mentioned this but I'll ask again anyway. Does > anyone know if the Dark Wizard Gridelwald (sp?) could come from > Grendel, as in Beowulf. > > Scott From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 26 03:03:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:03:44 -0000 Subject: LA Times JKR Interview In-Reply-To: <8t6vij+j4it@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t86ug+1uh1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4632 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > Today's Los Angeles Times has an interview with JKR. Nothing startling, > but she had this to say about Dudley. > > Recently she was asked why Harry's cousin, Dudley Dursley > was so fat. Rowling laughed. "I was told it would be politically > incorrect to have a child so large," she said. "My response was that > this was about abuse. It was abusive that the people around him are > feeding him not only with their putrid ideas, but with food, like a > goose. He's a victim of his parents." > The full interview is at > > http://www.latimes.com/living/20001024/t000101702.html > > at least for today thanks for posting this...I found the interviewer condescending..using words such as "obsessed" and "driven" and her "mission".....how do these (expletive deleted) idiots think that great literature (or great tasks) get written (or done)? By those who just want to take it easy? Be blase? Not too "intense" about anything. Bah! From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Oct 26 03:03:52 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 03:03:52 -0000 Subject: Dumledore's victory In-Reply-To: <8t81o3+nmsn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8t86uo+6v4j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4633 Grendel was mentioned in this connection a few days ago. Do a search on "Grendel" in the search box on the message screen. There's a photo of the cover of the novel "Grendel" by John Gardner in the club's Files section. Grindelwald is also the name of a ski town in the Swiss Alps. -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > I think that someone mentioned this but I'll ask again anyway. Does > anyone know if the Dark Wizard Gridelwald (sp?) could come from > Grendel, as in Beowulf. > > Scott From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 03:21:51 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:21:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dumledore's victory References: <8t8515+cp33@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F7A34E.96083859@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4634 Jim Flanagan wrote: > Grendel was mentioned in this connection a few days ago. Do a search > on "Grendel" in the search box on the message screen. There's a photo > of the cover of the novel "Grendel" by John Gardner in the club's > Files section. Grindelwald is also the name of a ski town in the > Swiss Alps. I think JKR's said someplace (O Interview Deities? didn't she?) that she often uses place names for name sources, so it's a fair bet that it came from the town, but I'm also betting she picked that town name because it was reminiscent of Grendel. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 26 03:26:27 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:26:27 EDT Subject: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview Message-ID: <85.1fdbe8c.2728fe63@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4635 I'm interested in people's reactions to this... Rowling bristles at comparisons--especially between Harry Potter and Peter Pan. Of J.M. Barrie's novel about a little boy who refuses to grow up, she said, "I find it a sinister idea. I find it stunted. I wouldn't want to go back to childhood. I've gotten much happier as I've gotten older. That's true of most of the women I know, not necessarily of the men I know. It's my feeling that men in general hanker after childhood much more than women." Her own books, said Rowling, "are written to please me, and I am clearly an adult. I don't write what I think 8-year-olds would find funny. I write what I would find funny." Maybe this explains why so many adults--among them, suspense writer Stephen King--have devoured her books From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 03:23:59 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:23:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Band names was Harry's grandparents References: <8t7rkg+u261@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F7A3CF.7A81CAA3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4636 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Voldemort and the Death Eaters--now *there's* a likely punk band name, eh? > Just what I said myself. post # 2355, 4th line from the bottom. > :) Pippin Which once again proves what a rarely gifted and perceptive bunch we are! And so modest! It really *does* have a ring to it. --Amanda and the House Imps (just don't sound the same....) From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 03:29:19 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:29:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview References: <85.1fdbe8c.2728fe63@aol.com> Message-ID: <39F7A50F.2293B6B4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4637 Schlobin at aol.com wrote: > I'm interested in people's reactions to this... > > Rowling bristles at comparisons--especially between Harry Potter and Peter > Pan. Of J.M. Barrie's novel about a little boy who refuses to grow up, she > said, "I find it a sinister idea. I find it stunted. I wouldn't want to go > back to childhood. I've gotten much happier as I've gotten older. That's true > of most of the women I know, not necessarily of the men I know. It's my > feeling that men in general hanker after childhood much more than women." I was delighted to find another person who doesn't think Peter Pan is the definitive work about childhood. It always seemed a bit wrong to me, and have actually used the term stunted development myself in struggling to put my bad "vibe" about it into words. Clearly, I'm still failing, but it just didn't seem charming, at least to me. And JKR! --Amanda From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 26 02:47:17 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:47:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] FAQ's, harry's family, food References: Message-ID: <39F79B35.6D92C96@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4638 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > The FAQ's at the moment are spread across the computers of several people > and also in the land of existence is possible eventually. Basically by this > I mean that a group of us are in the process of writing them. I am unsure > about when we hope to have them completed by, and I guess we will tell the > group (quite loudly) when they start going online. Bear in mind that we are > writing the FAQ's in our spare time - something which I seem to have very > little of at the moment. And if anyone hasn't said it lately, I, for one, am looking forward to reading the FAQs eagerly. People have taken such thoughtful care in analyzing all manner of things about these books, and I know that many of the most interesting posters are the FAQ writers. I am sure that the FAQs will be absorbing reading. While you're slaving away at composing them, be assured that your work will certainly be appreciated. > Penny wrote: "Well, first off Amanda's right -- the Dursleys are Harry's > only living relatives." > > > > Which does leave the possibility of other relatives if we take it to mean > that the Dursleys' are the only family left out of Harry's relatives. I do, > however, believe the Dursleys' to be Harry's only remaining relatives. I'm sure that Vernon and Petunia would be certain to alienate any of James' relatives that they knew about . . . but I, too, think Dumbledore would know if any of James' relatives were still living. > Penny wrote: "BRITISH FOOD -- I'm with Simon -- British food should not be > maligned so much! > > I wrote: "My college dinning hall food can be terrible (this is why I am > living in one of the other blocks - the chef down here can cook > brilliantly). Just because you can recognize what is in it does not mean > that it is edible." > Penny replied: "Having lived for 6 weeks at Emmanuel College in Cambridge, I > can vouch for this generality. We poured mounds of the ubiquitous British > "brown sauce" over virtually everything served in the dining hall. :--)" > I dimly remember the food at St. Catherine's College at Cambridge as being pretty good--I studied there for about six weeks in 1982 (heaves a nostalgic sigh). Peg, who really, really wants to go back to England someday. Better yet, via brookstick (um . . . upon thinking it over . . . over the ocean . . . maybe not. Better via airplane, thanks). >>> Current reigning CD: Christine Lavin's "Getting in Touch With My Inner Bitch" Currently reading: MacLeish's _Prince Ombra_ Last movie seen: Pay it Forward From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 26 02:47:34 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 21:47:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Marauder's Map; Snape vs. Lupin References: <8t5hlc+mst3@eGroups.com> <39F72EE6.37446A81@texas.net> Message-ID: <39F79B46.FBAF736C@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4639 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > So, how come the map recognizes Snape and insults him? Because > > the four Marauders set it up to do that in case their schoolmate > > Snape ever tried to use the map. > > But it insulted Snape as a professor at Hogwarts, not a student. I'll grant > that the map insulted him by name and title because he identified > himself--it was just that the insults seemed so appropriate to Snape > himself, like the map knew the correct physical insults for this person, > regardless of whether it knew his name. > > Did that make any sense? Yes, it's PERSONAL. Not just a generic bit of magic parchment from a joke shop; it's personally tailored to Snape. You know, when Lupin reads the parchment, Harry notices that he seems to be doing some fast thinking. I'll bet that in some small corner of his mind, Lupin was also struggling to keep from breaking out into wild guffaws of laughter. There are several references in the text to the fact that Snape didn't get along with James when they were all in school together. How did he get along with Lupin himself when they were young? I strongly suspect the answer is "not well." Besides the fact that Snape hated James and perhaps Sirius, Lupin's best friends, there was all the fallout from James' prank. I suspect Snape and Lupin never exactly had close confidential chats between classes. You know, I think I would like to be a fly on the wall in the teacher's lounge during the year Lupin is teaching at Hogwarts--I will bet that the interaction between Lupin and Snape has been fraught all year, particularly on Snape's part (well, practically everything is fraught on Snape's part). There was the business about Snape assigning the werewolf essay to Lupin's class, too. Yep, I bet they STILL don't have close, confidential chats after class. Is the hostility all on Snape's side? Or is there some on Lupin's side as well? I haven't really seen much in the way from hostility from Lupin. Even when confronting Peter in the Shrieking Shack, he doesn't seem furiously angry the way Sirius does, just grimly determined. Does he just hide hostility well? Does he exorcize it all once a month during the full month, so he's really extraordinarily mild-mannered the rest of the month? Thoughts? Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 26 03:03:02 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:03:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: FAQS?? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> Message-ID: <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4640 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > Patience -- we'll get there. > > But we haven't covered that virtue yet! (have we...?) Nope, not yet! Soon, though . . . patience probably falls under the umbrella of "Fortitude" which is the next virtue. I haven't started writing it yet. Maybe I'll teach you all fortitude by making you all wait a reeeeally long time. If I did, though, somehow I don't think I would get as many impatient emails as Penny and Carole do when they're slow on getting out the next chapter of "A Sirius Affair." Peg From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 03:33:45 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:33:45 -0500 Subject: Voldemort's parents Message-ID: <39F7A619.96120B0A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4641 Well, for those of you (like myself) who didn't think they were, in rereading Chamber of Secrets I saw that in the confrontation scene, Tom Riddle says his father abandoned his mother when he found out "his wife" was a witch. So they *were* married. Which means he's not a sorry b*****d. Technically speaking. Just clearing up a detail I, at least, was fuzzy on. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 03:45:42 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:45:42 -0500 Subject: Werewolves are incurable Message-ID: <39F7A8E6.3AD875D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4642 Oh, another thing I noticed when going through Chamber again. Everyone's favorite, ol' most-charming-smile himself, in describing his encounter with the werewolf, says he subdued it and performed the Homorphus Charm, which turned the werewolf into a man. And saved the village. But it doesn't say anywhere that he *cured* him, and I think a cure is misreading. Seems to me, what the Homorphus Charm does is force a transfigured human (in this case, transfigured by a curse) to revert to human form, even during the duration of the curse (or against their will?). If you subdue a werewolf and re-human him, you have proven his or her identity and the villagers can then take appropriate action to negate the danger (it is to be hoped that appropriate action does not include killing the werewolf, but whatever). The point is, you have saved the village by identifying the source of the danger in an unmistakable way. You have *not* cured the werewolf. This had bothered me, that it was said anywhere that lycanthropy was curable, since Lupin pretty much indicated it wasn't, so if anyone else was wondering, too, here's my attempt at clarification. --Amanda From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 26 03:58:53 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:58:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview References: <85.1fdbe8c.2728fe63@aol.com> Message-ID: <39F7ABFD.778ED84@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4643 Schlobin at aol.com wrote: > I'm interested in people's reactions to this... > > Rowling bristles at comparisons--especially between Harry Potter and Peter > Pan. Of J.M. Barrie's novel about a little boy who refuses to grow up, she > said, "I find it a sinister idea. I find it stunted. I wouldn't want to go > back to childhood. I've gotten much happier as I've gotten older. That's true > of most of the women I know, not necessarily of the men I know. It's my > feeling that men in general hanker after childhood much more than women." Well. One thing that strikes me as I read this, that reminds me about the whole children's book/adult book controversy, combining it with the thread I've been prompting on moral development: I think that people who dismiss the Harry Potter books as "just for children" are crazy, because the one of the central tasks of the series is, how do you grow up to be a decent human being? For adults, it's just a restatement of the same problem that they have when they get up every day: how do you live like a decent human being? The problems that concern Harry in these books -- loyalty, resisting temptation, sticking to a task, braving one's own insecurities, working with other people even when you can't stand them, etc. -- better concern adults, too. Or else we're all in big trouble. Peg From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 04:18:59 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 23:18:59 -0500 Subject: Movie stuff Message-ID: <39F7B0B3.BB20D92@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4644 Here's some snippets off the Alan Rickman guestbook on the fan site I favor (I hope I got the URLs right): --Amanda ________________ Quoting the Oxford University Library Staff Newsletter from 31 August, the IGN FilmForce (http://filmforce.ign.com/news/1572.html) reports: "Hogwarts comes to Bodley - The Newsletter can reveal that the Bodleian is one of the sites chosen to provide locations for the new Harry Potter film. Following an agreement with the film company last week, Duke Humfrey's Library is to be the library at Hogwarts School, while the Divinity School will be transformed into the school hospital. Filming is expected to take place towards the end of October, and will take place outside Library hours." Further details of the Bodley shoot in the 12 October edition of the newsletter: "Warner Bros. will be racing to finish filming for the first Harry Potter film in the Bodleian within their allotted time. They will be working non-stop in Duke Humfrey for forty-three hours from 1 pm on Saturday 21 October, when the Library closes, to 8 am on the Monday morning, so as to leave the room free again for readers when the Library opens one hour later. Filming will continue in the Divinity School for a further two days after that." _______________ IGN FilmForce (http://filmforce.com/news/1569.html) reporting that "Harry Potter" is filming presently at Oxford and that Richard Harris has been spotted on the set. ___________________ If you want to see some pics of the sets for HP, a bunch of keeners in the UK put together the Harry Potter Movie Site (http://uk.geocities.com/pottermovie/) with lots of pics and gossip about the film. Interesting to see how long it will be before the studio tries to shut them down. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Oct 26 03:36:21 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:36:21 -0500 Subject: JKR Time web interview Message-ID: <39F7A6B4.35FA1141@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4645 Haven't seen anyone post this URL yet? http://www.time.com/time/pacific/magazine/20001030/potter.html The most interesting line in this one for me was that when she mentioned that everyone always pesters her with questions about whether or not she's going to kill Ron off, she says: "As if I'm going to kill Harry's best friend." Which sounds as if she's dismissing the idea, whereas I had thought that up until now she has been careful not to rule it out. (Hmm. Upon rereading, I realize that this could be interpreted instead to read that she's saying that readers are accusing HER of murdering, rather than (hypothetically) Voldemort. A different gloss, which doesn't, however, rule out her axing Ron in a later book. *Sigh* Which just gives us more to wrangle about.) Oh, well. The URL is above, if any of you are interested. Peg From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Oct 26 04:31:58 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:31:58 -0400 Subject: HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> Message-ID: <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4646 > If I did, though, somehow I don't think I would get as many impatient emails > as Penny and Carole do when they're slow on getting out the next chapter of > "A Sirius Affair." We seem to be getting a lot that lately....hmmmmm, we should take a page from JKR and say it will be out when its done (the FAQ's, your wonderful essays, and ASA). > > Peg, who really, really wants to go back to England someday. Better yet, via > brookstick (um . . . upon thinking it over . . . over the ocean . . . maybe > not. Better via airplane, thanks). > I want to go now!!!! Has anyone thought of organizing a HP tour for all us obsessive types? I know there is such a thing as a Beatles tour...why not HP. I think we should all go as one big chartered group...with the cameras whirring...we could be really tacky tourists if we put our minds to it. Neil and Simon and Nick could be our tour guides...who wants to drive? carole Current book: Emerald House Rising by Peg Kerr Current CD: The Cream of Eric Clapton Kids Current movie: Toy Story 2 (I don't get to watch many movies...kids have custody of the VCR) From Ellimist15 at aol.com Thu Oct 26 04:45:39 2000 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:45:39 EDT Subject: The Marauder's Map (Formerly "Re: Scabbers") Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4647 > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > Caius Marcius wrote: > > > > > Now surely, as one of the authors of the Marauders' Map, Peter would > > > have > > > known what precautions to take to prevent his name from showing up on > > > the > > > Map. > > > > But, Lupin found him on it. Are you suggesting that he (Scabbers) just > > "slipped up" when Lupin spied him on the Map in PoA? Lupin also says > > that the "Map never lies." I don't know that Pettigrew could have > > prevented himself from showing up on it. > > Perhaps the authors of the map were only visible to each other ... the > map wouldn't have lied, but concealed Peter's presence to everyone but a > fellow author? > > Angela "Hi, I'm new" Boyko It's a great theory, (it's far better than any of mine) but it still doesn't quite work. Snape says that he saw Lupin heading for the willow from the map. Because Lupin was a marauder, Snape shouldn't have been able to see him. Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, I just wanted to thank Steve! The link from the Lexicon has made my site more popular than I ever could have dreamed. I got over one thousand hits just today! ::hugs Steve:: Ellie Rosenthal http://www.geocities.com/cornishpixie7/harryp/ From Malabud at excite.com Thu Oct 26 05:51:53 2000 From: Malabud at excite.com (Malabud) Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Triwizard Cup Portkey (was "Things to ask Jo") Message-ID: <15375709.972539514054.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4648 Heidi Tandy wrote: > > The most recently reasonable explanation I have heard was that it > > wasn't only a portkey to take harry away-it was also a portkey to > > bring Voldemort onto Hogwarts' grounds-and that's why by touching > > it, Harry was able to return to just outside the maze-the cup was > > always a portkey-it was configured by the triwizard organizers to > > transport the first person to touch it to the front of the maze- > > and crouch knew it. But wouldn't the Triwizard Champions be made aware that the trophy is a Portkey? Consider the following exchange between Cedric and Harry just after they arrived at the cemetary via the Triwizard Cup Portkey: Cedric looked down at the Triwizard Cup and then up at Harry. "Did anyone tell you the cup was a Portkey?" he asked. "Nope," said Harry. He was looking around the graveyard. It was completely silent and slightly eerie. "Is this supposed to be part of the task?" "I dunno," said Cedric. He sounded slightly nervous. (from Chapter 32, "Flesh, Blood, and Bone") Now, it's still entirely possible the champions were never told the Cup was actually a Portkey that would take them out of the maze and to the judges, but it doesn't appear so from what Crouch, Jr. said while under the influence of the Veritaserum: "I offered to carry the Triwizard Cup into the maze before dinner," whispered Barty Crouch. "Turned it into a Portkey. My master's plan worked. He is returned to power and I will be honored by him beyond the dreams of wizards." (from Chapter 35, "Veritaserum") However, I don't think Voldemort was planning on using it to return to Hogwarts and attack and/or announce his presence. Voldy is intelligent and knows not to take unnecessary risks. There would be too many people immediately on hand at Hogwarts (Dumbledore, teachers, ministry wizards, etc.) to defend against such an attack. I have a feeling Voldemort is going to use the belief of a lot people (like Fudge) that he could *never* come back to his advantage and lay low for a while. Malabud _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Thu Oct 26 06:03:19 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:03:19 -0000 Subject: Harry's grandparents In-Reply-To: <39F717F1.C8085286@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t8hf7+s2fg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4649 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Can't be, as far as I can tell. The Dursleys are Harry's only living > relatives. Not the only living close relatives, but only relatives > there are. Impossible, there is not a on person on the face of the earth that has no living relatives. Think about it, everybody has 2 parents, 4 grandparents 8 great grandparents, 16 great great grandparents and most of them had more than one child. Go back 6 or 7 generations and everybody is related to everybody. It's very simple, I'm just suggesting that Hermione's father's sister's daughter's son is Harry. From vderark at bccs.org Thu Oct 26 06:05:12 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:05:12 -0000 Subject: kids researching from Harry Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8t8hio+5k1o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4650 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote> > Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, I just wanted to thank Steve! The > link from the Lexicon has made my site more popular than I ever could have > dreamed. I got over one thousand hits just today! ::hugs Steve:: You're welcome (and I always like hugs). I believe what's going on right now is a couple of middle school projects. I've been in contact with some teachers who are using the Harry Potter books with their classes. They assign the kids to research the etymology of the words in Harry Potter using your site and mine. I had to help one school get your site made available to them when it was blocked by their filtering software. I think it's pretty cool that middle school kids are learning about origins of words from the HP books. And I think it's pretty cool that they're using your site to do it! I'm not getting THAT many hits, so I know they're heading straight for yours. Congratulations :) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Thu Oct 26 06:12:00 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:12:00 -0000 Subject: Lockhart's spells In-Reply-To: <39F7A8E6.3AD875D@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t8hvg+2530@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4651 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Oh, another thing I noticed when going through Chamber again. Everyone's > favorite, ol' most-charming-smile himself, in describing his encounter > with the werewolf, says he subdued it and performed the Homorphus Charm, I finally discovered the origin of the Transmogrifian Torture Lockhart bragged about. I had of course spotted the "trans" part from Latin, but I couldn't place the rest of it. Blaise, who does this sort of thing for a living, tried to help out but couldn't find a connection either. But the other day, smack dab in the middle of a rehearsal for the play I'm directing right now, it hit me. It's from Calvin and Hobbes. That cardboard box Calvin uses to transform himself (in his imagination) into various creatures and later to create a whole bunch of duplicates of himself is called a Transmogrifier. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Malabud at excite.com Thu Oct 26 07:22:46 2000 From: Malabud at excite.com (Malabud) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:22:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Timeline of Ages Message-ID: <18492157.972544967976.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4652 Rita wrote: >I drew up a chart to try to figure out everyone's ages based on >information that has been discussed on this list, such as James >must have been out of Hogwarts by the time Bill started or else >Bill would have said something about him. I may have committed >errors, please let me know. Cool list! It's obvious a lot of work went into this. I do have a few comments, though... :-) >1994-5 (years begin roughly July 1) GoF takes place >1993-4 Percy's senior year at Hogwarts 1993-4 Percy's seventh year at Hogwarts A seventh-year student may correspond to a senior in high school, but it's not the same thing. >1992-3 Ginny's first year at Hogwarts >1991-2 Harry and Ron's first year, Gryffindor wins House Cup >1990-1 Slytherin wins House Cup for 6th consecutive year I think the 1990/91 school year was Charlie's seventh year at Hogwarts, despite the few-babies-born-during-the-Voldemort-years theory. In my opinion, Gryffindor was missing a seeker Harry's first year because Charlie had graduated the year before. Remember, Slytherin may have won the House Cup for six consecutive years, but that doesn't mean they won the *Quidditch* Cup all those years! 1990-1 Charlie's seventh year at Hogwarts; Slytherin wins House Cup for 6th consecutive year >1989-90 S. wins H.C. for 5th c.y.; Fred and George's first year Okay, I think 1989/90 was Bill's seventh year. When Bill and Mrs. Weasley come to visit Harry as his "family" for the Third Task, Bill mentions not seeing Hogwarts for five years: "It's great being back here," said Bill, looking around the chamber (Violet, the Fat Lady's friend, winked at him from her frame). "Haven't seen this place for five years. Is that picture of the mad knight still around? Sir Cadogan?" "Oh yeah," said Harry, who had met Sir Cadogan the previous year. "And the Fat Lady?" said Bill. (from Chapter 31, "The Third Task") Now, this could be interpreted as having not visited for five years, but from his comments about the people in the picture frames, it seems he is referring to a time when he actually lived at Hogwarts as a student. If he graduated five years before, that would put his seventh year as the 1989/90 school year, also Fred and George's first year. 1989-90 S. wins H.C. for 5th c.y.; Fred and George's first year; Bill's seventh year >1988-9 S. wins H.C. for 4th c.y. >1987-8 S. wins H.C. for 3rd c.y.; Percy's first year >1986-7 S. wins H.C. for 2nd c.y. >1985-6 S. wins H.C. for 1st c.y. >1984-5 Charlie's senior year; Gryffindor wins House Cup 1984-5 Charlie's first year; Gryffindor wins House Cup >1983-4 1983-4 Bill's first year >1982-3 Bill's senior year 1982-3 >1981-2 Ginny is born; Voldemort's reign of terror ends >1980-1 Harry is born; Ron is born And, I might add, Hermione is born as well! >1979-80 >1978-9 Fred and George are born; Charlie's first year 1978-9 Fred and George are born >1977-8 >1976-7 Percy is born; Bill's first year 1976-7 Percy is born >1975-6 MWPP+L+S's senior year >1974-5 <1973-4 Catlady's senior year (not at Hogwarts) 1973-4 Charlie is born >1972-3 1972-3 Bill is born >1971-2 V's reign of terror begins; Catlady starts high school (10th grade) >Conclusions: this is a lot to speculate about. One thing, for >MWPP to have been out of school by the time Bill came in, the >latest they could finish is class of '76. Class of '77 if Bill is >only one year before Charlie. Sorry, Neil. Well, like I said, I disagree that there is such a large gap between Bill/Charlie and the rest of the kids in the Weasley family. It just doesn't make sense, Voldemort or no. Mrs. Weasley is a strong woman and obviously chose to have seven children. She isn't the type to stop having kids because of a dark wizard. On the contrary, it's all the more reason to carry on and live your life as normally as possible, despite all the fear and dispair around you. That includes having kids and raising them to be the best people they can be. >Also, as Ginny is born during Bill's sixth year, the statement >that Ginny has wanted to go to Hogwarts ever since Bill first >went is even more messed up than we had previously thought -- >Bill would be OUT of Hogwarts by the time that she wanted to go >there. PERHAPS we should attribute this to a printer's error and >say, it was really supposed to say that Ginny has wanted to go to >Hogwarts ever since PERCY first went. No, the statement that Ginny wanted to go to Hogwarts ever since Bill first went still makes sense if Bill started at Hogwarts in 1983. That makes Ginny two at the time. What a two-year-old wants, a two-year-old gets, and if said toddler doesn't get what he/she wants, then everyone in the family will suffer! Ginny obviously saw her favorite older brother leaving for a long period of time, didn't understand why and wanted to go with him. Have you ever tried to explain the concept of going away and coming back to a two-year-old? It seems as if they think you'll never come back if you leave! Every time someone goes out the door, the kid must go with! (Sorry, I'm thinking of my nephew. He's cute, but he can sure throw a fit when he thinks Mom or Dad is leaving without him!) So, Ginny is taught about Hogwarts and going to school. The concpet becomes clearer over time, but she retains that early memory of Bill leaving and desperately wanting to go with him. >Also, by this timeline, Bill would be 29 and Charlie 27 during >GoF. I don't think they seemed quite that old. I think Bill is 22 or 23 and Charlie is 21 or 22 as of the end of GoF. >BUT perhaps they age like Muggles to age 21 and then age more >slowly. How does that affect magic-Muggle mixed marriages? Does >the Muggle spouse get to drink anti-aging potion as long as the >marriage lasts, and thus live as long as wizarding folk? Or is >the slow aging genetically inborn rather than a spell, and thus >the Muggle spouse would get old and decrepit while the wizarding >spouse is still young and strong.... Maybe that's why Dumbledore is apparently single! His dear wife was a muggle who died years and years ago after 75 happy years of marriage! Voldemort does call him a "Muggle-loving fool" in chapter 33 of GoF! Maybe he meant it literally! (Hehehe) Malabud _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Oct 26 07:36:37 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:36:37 +0100 Subject: Charlie and Bill ages Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4653 Malabud wrote: "I think the 1990/91 school year was Charlie's seventh year at Hogwarts, despite the few-babies-born-during-the-Voldemort-years theory. In my opinion, Gryffindor was missing a seeker Harry's first year because Charlie had graduated the year before. Remember, Slytherin may have won the House Cup for six consecutive years, but that doesn't mean they won the *Quidditch* Cup all those years!" We are repeatedly told that Charlie is one of the best seekers that has ever been to Hogwarts. For this to be the case Gryffindor must have won the house cup most, if not all, the years he played. I now include a couple of quotes: "And Potter - do try and win, won't you? Or we'll be out of the running for the eighth year in a row ..." (McGonagall - PoA Ch 12) "Gryffindor hadn't won the Quidditch Cup since the legendary Charlie Weasley had been Seeker."(PS Ch 13) "If they won their next match, against Hufflepuff, they would overtake Slytherin in the House Championship for the first time in seven years."(PS Ch 13) These imply that Gryffindor has also not won the Quidditch cup for 7 years - which makes a 5-year gap back to when Charlie was at Gryffindor (I age people using PS as the basis). The quotes about the House Cup imply that they last won the House Cup 7 years before the events of PS. Interestingly this could be interpreted to mean that there is a two-year age gap between Charlie and Bill. >From this I got Charlie to be 22 at the beginning of PS, which would suggest he was born in 1968/9. Due to this Bill would have started Hogwarts in, or before, 1980 - before Ginny was born (Ginny would have been born in 1980/1). Simon From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Thu Oct 26 08:34:50 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:34:50 -0000 Subject: Movie stuff In-Reply-To: <39F7B0B3.BB20D92@texas.net> Message-ID: <8t8qba+csp0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4654 > If you want to see some pics of the sets for HP, a bunch of keeners in the UK put together the Harry Potter Movie Site (http://uk.geocities.com/pottermovie/) with lots of pics and gossip about the film. None of it is NEW though. All the photos I could find are available elsewhere - those they have are mainly from Empire Online. For movie pictures, my favourite sources are: http://www.empireonline.co.uk http://filmforce.ign.com/harrypotter/ http://harrypotter.eqrealm.com/ > Interesting to see how long it will be before the studio > tries to shut them down. Don't think the studio will bother - but the copyright holders of the pictures (ie, the photographers and their agents) might... though I think it unlikely, as the aim of the exercise is to get the pictures to be seen more than making money from them. Nick From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 10:00:30 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:00:30 +0200 Subject: Why did Moody wait? References: <8t4sfg+u4ed@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001601c03f33$93c33620$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4655 > The most recently reasonable explanation I have heard was that it > wasn't only a portkey to take harry away - it was also a portkey to > bring Voldemort onto Hogwarts' grounds Hmm, hmm, hmmm. Thanks Heidi, very enlightening This looks like an artful combination of "easy catch" and "big catch" theories. "Easy catch" in that the Triwizard Tournament has granted a special dispensation on portkeys (which would normally fall into the proscribed apparation category), such that Moody/Crouch can kidnap Harry more easily here than at any other point in the story. Also, it might be less dangerous to add an extra stop to a preset portkey itenerary than to make a portkey from scratch. And "big catch" too: showing up in the winner's circle of the TWT and proceeding to go postal would be an excellent PR strategy. It wouldn't leave those MoF spin warlocks any chance to insinuate that Voldy has gone soft in his old age ... Of course this all assumes (1) that portkeys don't normally work in Hogwarts and (2) that it would, under certain circumstances, be possible to suspend the anti-porting spells. Premis (1) remains an inference, though. True, apparating is barred--but Sirius *was* able to ... to ... do the burning head thing in the common room fire, which also belongs to the same category of magic. (No: it's *not* just an image of his head, since Amos Diggory could eat toast in the Burrow!) Still, it's a reasonable inference. Premis (2) seems entirely possible--although it would have to require a sort of spell Moody/Crouch couldn't have done on his own. Hmmmm. Assuming goats ruminate, I'll be doing so for a day or two ... Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 10:09:07 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:09:07 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Intentionality & Magic (OT) References: <8t44r0+amnj@eGroups.com> <004b01c03dda$7717fec0$f300a8c0@cablecom.ch> <39F72FF0.2CC9BE22@texas.net> Message-ID: <001701c03f34$c77ed040$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4656 > Well, my husband usually asks me where he put it. And I work pretty well without > the aforementioned. Ah! A man after my own heart! Why is it than "finding things" isn't in any of the hallowed lists of the benefits accruing to matrimony? > > And that, I think, is precisely why wizards stick to magic. > > And we stay married. > Back in the old days, people stayed married for the kids. In our age, men know they'd die of heart attack after swallowing their children's ADD pills instead of their own heart meds. And their wives know their husbands are the only humans capable of making the @#$% email program work after his 13th botched installation of Internet Exploder ver. 4.0.235.234b. Oh well. At least something is holding society together ... (Don't shoot me, ma'm--I was just joking.) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 26 10:36:19 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:36:19 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lockhart's spells (transmogrification) Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001026103619.0092c70c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4657 Steve wrote: >I finally discovered the origin of the Transmogrifian Torture >Lockhart bragged about. I had of course spotted the "trans" part from >Latin, but I couldn't place the rest of it. Blaise, who does this >sort of thing for a living, tried to help out but couldn't find a >connection either. But the other day, smack dab in the middle of a >rehearsal for the play I'm directing right now, it hit me. > >It's from Calvin and Hobbes. That cardboard box Calvin uses to >transform himself (in his imagination) into various creatures and >later to create a whole bunch of duplicates of himself is called a >Transmogrifier. I had come across the term transmogrification before reading HP, but it's not the sort of word one drops into daily conversation. My dictionary defines transmogrify as "to transform, especially in a magical or surprising manner". It's described as 'jocular' and C17, of unknown origin. Possible modern use: "Come round for dinner, and watch me transmogrify some basic ingredients into an edible meal"...well, perhaps not. Can we, then, assume that mogrify means "to form"? I think it may be a deviation from magrify, either related to magic/mage or the term magrif, which appears to be a prayer of Arabic origin. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 26 11:25:23 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:25:23 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39F814A3.819A5061@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4658 lrcjestes wrote: > I want to go now!!!! Has anyone thought of organizing a HP tour for all us > obsessive types? I know there is such a thing as a Beatles tour...why not > HP. I think we should all go as one big chartered group...with the cameras > whirring...we could be really tacky tourists if we put our minds to it. > Neil and Simon and Nick could be our tour guides...who wants to drive? I really like this idea - and I would like it even better if we could coordinate it either with the release of book5 or the release of the movie - and maybe add some sort of charity/support for Muggles for HP into it Even if there is no "professional" tour as of yet, there's no reason why *we* couldn't create one- we know EVERYTHING that's been in the public realm, don't we? is ANYONE on this list a travel agent? From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 26 11:38:46 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:38:46 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Triwizard Cup Portkey (was "Things to ask Jo") References: <15375709.972539514054.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <39F817C6.1B5DD622@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4659 Malabud wrote: > Now, it's still entirely possible the champions were never told the Cup was > actually a Portkey that would take them out of the maze and to the judges, > but it doesn't appear so from what Crouch, Jr. said while under the > influence of the Veritaserum: > > "I offered to carry the Triwizard Cup into the maze before > dinner," whispered Barty Crouch. "Turned it into a Portkey. My > master's plan worked. He is returned to power and I will be > honored by him beyond the dreams of wizards." > (from Chapter 35, "Veritaserum") I think it's logical that they weren't told iot was a portkey (assuming it was supposed to be) - but eslewhere in his confession, Crouch said "Turn the cup into a Portkey, which would take the first person to touch it to my master. But first -" which is where I got the explanation I posted yesterday - basically, this means we have *another* mystery for the faq, penny - and another question for JKR - Did Crouch change a cup with no portkey properties INTO a portkey, or was it already a portkey to brign the winner to the front of the maze, and he just added an extra stop? And maybe voldemort wasn't going to go back to hogwarts - maybe he was going to use the portkey to send a dead Harry back there... But I don't agree with you when you say > However, I don't think Voldemort was planning on using it to return to > Hogwarts and attack and/or announce his presence. Voldy is intelligent and > knows not to take unnecessary risks. Voldemort is SO into breaking EVERY rule on the Evil Overlords Code of COnduct (hi cassandra!), including but not limited to: 6.I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them. 7.When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will you at least tell me what this is all about?" I'll say, "No." and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then say "No." 73.I will not agree to let the heroes go free if they win a rigged contest, even though my advisors assure me it is impossible for them to win. and most importantly, 34.I will not turn into a snake. It never helps. (http://paul.merton.ox.ac.uk/filmtv/overlord.html) that you really have to question his intelligence - yes, he may've been the most brilliant student to go through Hogwarts, but all those evil deeds have *really* taken a few points off that IQ scale. Of course, he did learn something from number 47 - If I learn that a callow youth has begun a quest to destroy me, I will slay him while he is still a callow youth instead of waiting for him to mature, and 101.I will not order my trusted lieutenant to kill the infant who is destined to overthrow me -- I'll do it myself. (of course, we all know how *that* turned out...) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 26 11:49:36 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:49:36 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lockhart's spells (transmogrification) References: <1.5.4.32.20001026103619.0092c70c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F81A50.9F56E94@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4660 Why do I remember something So obscure from high school senior year English class in 1988? There's poem which mentions a "transmogrifying bee" -I managed to find it (you can see it at the end of this post) - and my teacher told us that "transmogrifying" means something which creates a substantial change - in teh context of that poem, because it changed the hen from being alive to being dead - I don't know if JKR got it from that, or even knows of that poem - and I have NO clue why I've always remembered it (maybe my trelawny-side knew I'd have use for it someday. Neil Ward wrote: > Steve wrote: > > >I finally discovered the origin of the Transmogrifian Torture > >Lockhart bragged about. I had of course spotted the "trans" part from > >Latin, but I couldn't place the rest of it. Blaise, who does this > >sort of thing for a living, tried to help out but couldn't find a > >connection either. But the other day, smack dab in the middle of a > >rehearsal for the play I'm directing right now, it hit me. > > > >It's from Calvin and Hobbes. That cardboard box Calvin uses to > >transform himself (in his imagination) into various creatures and > >later to create a whole bunch of duplicates of himself is called a > >Transmogrifier. > > I had come across the term transmogrification before reading HP, but it's > not the sort of word one drops into daily conversation. My dictionary > defines transmogrify as "to transform, especially in a magical or surprising > manner". It's described as 'jocular' and C17, of unknown origin. Possible > modern use: "Come round for dinner, and watch me transmogrify some basic > ingredients into an edible meal"...well, perhaps not. > > Can we, then, assume that mogrify means "to form"? I think it may be a > deviation from magrify, either related to magic/mage or the term magrif, > which appears to be a prayer of Arabic origin. The poem: Beautifully Janet slept Till it was deeply morning. She woke then And thought about her dainty-feathered hen, To see how it had kept. One kiss she gave her mother. Only a small one gave she to her daddy Who would have kissed each curl of his shining baby; No kiss at all for her brother. Old Chucky, old Chucky! she cried, Running across the world upon the grass To Chuckys house, and listening. But alas, Her Chucky had died. It was a transmogrifying bee Came droning down on Chuckys old bald head And sat and put the poison. It scarcely bled, But how exceedingly And purply did the knot Swell with the venom and communicate Its rigor! Now the poor comb stood up straight But Chucky did not. So there was Janet Kneeling on the wet grass, crying her brown hen (Translated far beyond the daughters of men) To rise and walk upon it. And weeping fast as she had breath Janet implored us, Wake her from her sleep! And would not be instructed in how deep Was the forgetful kingdom of death. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 12:08:20 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:08:20 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview References: <85.1fdbe8c.2728fe63@aol.com> Message-ID: <003101c03f45$6f5971c0$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4661 > Rowling bristles at comparisons--especially between Harry Potter and Peter > Pan. Of J.M. Barrie's novel about a little boy who refuses to grow up, she > said, "I find it a sinister idea. I find it stunted. I wouldn't want to go > back to childhood. I've gotten much happier as I've gotten older. Good stuff! I can't get over how sane Jo seems to be. Does this interview have a URL to it??? > That's true > of most of the women I know, not necessarily of the men I know. It's my > feeling that men in general hanker after childhood much more than women." Oh dear. I thing I'll hold my tongue (fingers?) on that one. Must say I liked being a kid pretty well, though I don't think I'd like to be stuck there all my life. (Can you imagine spending the next 50+ years using bubble gum flavoured toothpaste?) I wonder what sort of men she's had to do with ... obviously none of us caprine maganimals**: we're very mature, we are. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat **Maganimal, n. A rare magical animal that can transform into a human at will. Thought patterns & behavior are nearly human when transformed. Incomplete transformations (often leaving hooves in the place of hands) occasionally lead to typing errors and inane comments in email groups. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 12:23:20 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:23:20 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <004901c03f47$87782600$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4662 > I want to go now!!!! Has anyone thought of organizing a HP tour for all us > obsessive types? I know there is such a thing as a Beatles tour...why not > HP. I think we should all go as one big chartered group...with the cameras > whirring...we could be really tacky tourists if we put our minds to it. > Neil and Simon and Nick could be our tour guides...who wants to drive? Actually, there's a long tradition of Inklings events running along those same lines. (The Inklings were a sort of litereary fellowship inluding Tolkein and C.S. Lewis). They overrun hotels in Cambridge and organize mind-boggling seminars about moral dyselxia in comparative mythology, elvin subjunctive participles and why C.S. Lewis' last book is actually a forgery by some other C.S. Lewis fan you're miffed at. In short, just what we need! Where's the sign up sheet--I'm coming! Are foreign goats allowed into the UK? Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From blaise_writer at hotmail.com Thu Oct 26 12:36:58 2000 From: blaise_writer at hotmail.com (Blaise ) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:36:58 -0000 Subject: Snape vs. Lupin In-Reply-To: <39F79B46.FBAF736C@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8t98hb+cfm4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4663 Peg wrote: <> Yes indeed. I can't imagine that Snape would have felt any increase of liking for a person who almost killed him, and I'm sure he blames Remus as much as Sirius for the attack on him. And don't forget all the references in PoA to the way Snape looked at Remus with loathing during the welcoming feast and at other times, how he tried to persuade Dumbledore that Remus would be helping Sirius after the attack on the Fat Lady, and how he told the Slytherins what Remus was at the end of the book. No, I think we can be sure that Snape detests Remus at least as strongly as he does Sirius. <> So would I! Or a fly on the wall when Snape is brewing the Wolfsbane Potion. I bet he doesn't like that... <> Well, there are a number of theories about this from the world of fanfic and I'll hand out some of them. WolfieTwins argue (among other things) that the Wolfsbane potion acts as a sort of sedative, numbing all strong emotions, so explaining Remus' remarkable self- control. Others of us would say that this self-control is due to his long training of being a werewolf. His fear of harming someone during the full moon extends to a control over his emotions at all times lest he let the wolf part of him gain any ground. Trying to work out what circumstances would make Remus angry is a favourite pastime of we fanfic authors! -Blaise, off to work on her story about Snape and the Wolfsbane Potion. From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 12:43:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:43:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> <39F814A3.819A5061@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39F826F9.1D287B79@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4664 heidi wrote: > I really like this idea - and I would like it even better if we could > coordinate it either with the release of book5 or the release of the movie - > and maybe add some sort of charity/support for Muggles for HP into it > Even if there is no "professional" tour as of yet, there's no reason why *we* > couldn't create one- we know EVERYTHING that's been in the public realm, don't > we? is ANYONE on this list a travel agent? We should think of some wonderful tour name and lay claim to it now, so that when the pro-types finally think of this, they have to get our permi$$ion to use it. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Oct 26 12:48:56 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 07:48:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> <004901c03f47$87782600$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <39F82838.1B1F841D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4665 Aberforths_Goat wrote: > Actually, there's a long tradition of Inklings events running along those > same lines. (The Inklings were a sort of litereary fellowship inluding > Tolkein and C.S. Lewis). They overrun hotels in Cambridge and organize > mind-boggling seminars about moral dyselxia in comparative mythology, elvin > subjunctive participles and why C.S. Lewis' last book is actually a forgery > by some other C.S. Lewis fan you're miffed at. In short, just what we need! > Where's the sign up sheet--I'm coming! Wow, we follow in prestigious footsteps. Nice to know the ranks of the educated lunatics included such distinguished company. Soooo, what's our 'name'? And I bet we can get discount rates.... > Are foreign goats allowed into the UK? Do you have hoof & mouth ("and" not "in")? Or Mad Goat disease? --Amanda, nobody's goat but sometimes a nanny From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Thu Oct 26 13:17:43 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 26 Oct 2000 13:17:43 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972566263.13070@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4666 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: Would you be interested in an HP tour of the UK? o Yes, to coincide with the movie release o Yes, to coincide with Book 5 release o Yes, but not next November o Never in a million years To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 26 13:21:07 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:21:07 -0500 Subject: Harry's grandparents References: <8t8hf7+s2fg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F82FC2.AC084559@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4667 Hi -- eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > Impossible, there is not a on person on the face of the earth that > has no living relatives. That's a pretty broad generalization eggplant. I agree with you that it's probably rare, but .... impossible is an awfully strong word. > I'm just suggesting that Hermione's father's sister's daughter's son > is > Harry. If I follow this relationship correctly, this would make Harry & Hermione first cousins, once removed. The "once removed" business means that Harry & Hermione are of different generations. Which, of course, makes sense, given what you've proposed above. In order for your example to be correct, Hermione's father would be the same generation as Harry's maternal grandparents. Hermione would technically be the same generation as Lily (Evans) Potter in this example. This *is* possible . . . . but really not all that likely IMO. I think you're grasping at straws genealogically to create a "cousins" relationship between Harry & Hermione. If there is a familial relationship between Harry & Hermione, the 2nd cousins example from yesterday seems much more likely in my mind. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Oct 26 13:18:47 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:18:47 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> <004901c03f47$87782600$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> <39F82838.1B1F841D@texas.net> Message-ID: <003101c03f4f$4722c080$258fd6ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4668 > Wow, we follow in prestigious footsteps. Nice to know the ranks of the educated > lunatics included such distinguished company. Soooo, what's our 'name'? And I > bet we can get discount rates.... How about: Gambit of Fire Charter of Secrets Haring after Harry Could we get a big purple bus....and call it the Knight Bus? Ok I just set up a poll to gauge interest in this Harrybrained idea....Let me know if there is another option that should be considered on the poll. off to get some work done. carole From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 13:28:05 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lockhart's spells (transmogrification) Message-ID: <20001026132805.11321.qmail@web1504.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4669 Thanks, Neil! I was going crazy trying to remember that poem. As soon as we started discussing the word I start trying to rememver that poem. I think I had to learn it my seior year of high school to, too. (which btw was 1987 for me) > Why do I remember something So obscure from high > school senior year English > class in 1988? > There's poem which mentions a "transmogrifying bee" > -I managed to find it (you > can see it at the end of this post) - and my teacher > told us that > The poem: > Beautifully Janet slept > Till it was deeply morning. She woke then > And thought about her dainty-feathered > hen, > To see how it had kept. > > One kiss she gave her mother. > Only a small one gave she to her daddy > Who would have kissed each curl of his > shining > baby; > No kiss at all for her brother. > > Old Chucky, old Chucky! she cried, > Running across the world upon the grass > To Chuckys house, and listening. But > alas, > Her Chucky had died. > > It was a transmogrifying bee > Came droning down on Chuckys old bald > head > And sat and put the poison. It scarcely > bled, > But how exceedingly > > And purply did the knot > Swell with the venom and communicate > Its rigor! Now the poor comb stood up > straight > But Chucky did not. > > So there was Janet > Kneeling on the wet grass, crying her > brown hen > (Translated far beyond the daughters of > men) > To rise and walk upon it. > > And weeping fast as she had breath > Janet implored us, Wake her from her > sleep! > And would not be instructed in how deep > Was the forgetful kingdom of death. > > ===== Elizabeth (Rhiannon8404) ****************************8* She is like a cat in the dark And then she is the darkness. ****************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Oct 26 13:31:40 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:31:40 -0000 Subject: HP tour? In-Reply-To: <003101c03f4f$4722c080$258fd6ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8t9bns+65t0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4670 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "lrcjestes" wrote: > > > Wow, we follow in prestigious footsteps. Nice to know the ranks of the > educated > > lunatics included such distinguished company. Soooo, what's our 'name'? > And I > > bet we can get discount rates.... > > > Could we get a big purple bus....and call it the Knight Bus? I just registered the domain name APPARATINGPOINT.COM for use for this purpose... From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Oct 26 13:38:51 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 26 Oct 2000 06:38:51 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP tour? Message-ID: <20001026133851.3753.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4671 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From larrick at yazaki-na.com Thu Oct 26 13:53:27 2000 From: larrick at yazaki-na.com (Laurie ) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:53:27 -0000 Subject: The Twelve Days of Terror - long Message-ID: <8t9d0n+84r8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4672 I've posted this in one or two of the Yahoo clubs that I belong to, and it went over pretty well, which gave me the courage to present it here. I would give proper credit to the person (people?) who wrote the Twelve Days of Christmas, but I have no idea who that would be. Anyway, for what it's worth, here's my first contribution to the group. (and yes, I do know that there is only one "killing curse", but I liked the way it sounded) The Twelve Days of Terror On the first day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me a wand made from a yew tree On the second day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me two basilisk eggs, And a wand made from a yew tree On the third day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs, And a wand made from a yew tree On the fourth day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the fifth day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the sixth day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me six trolls a thumping Five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the seventh day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me seven giants stomping Six trolls a thumping Five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the eighth day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me eight dragons soaring Seven giants stomping Six trolls a thumping Five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the ninth day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me nine hags a cursing Eight dragons soaring Seven giants stomping Six trolls a thumping Five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the tenth day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me ten Death Eaters killing Nine hags a cursing Eight dragons soaring Seven giants stomping Six trolls a thumping Five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the eleventh day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me eleven vampires biting Ten Death Eaters killing Nine hags a cursing Eight dragons soaring Seven giants stomping Six trolls a thumping Five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree On the twelfth day of terror, Lord Voldy gave to me twelve dementors dementing Eleven vampires biting Ten Death Eaters killing Nine hags a cursing Eight dragons soaring Seven giants stomping Six trolls a thumping Five Killing Curses! Four binding spells Three vials of poison Two basilisk eggs And a wand made from a yew tree From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Thu Oct 26 12:41:44 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:41:44 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> <39F814A3.819A5061@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <013d01c03f59$ccbdbd80$9bfa883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4673 > lrcjestes wrote: > > > I want to go now!!!! Has anyone thought of organizing a HP tour for all us > > obsessive types? I know there is such a thing as a Beatles tour...why not > > HP. I think we should all go as one big chartered group...with the cameras > > whirring...we could be really tacky tourists if we put our minds to it. > > Neil and Simon and Nick could be our tour guides...who wants to drive? Heidi wrote > I really like this idea - and I would like it even better if we could > coordinate it either with the release of book5 or the release of the movie - > and maybe add some sort of charity/support for Muggles for HP into it > Even if there is no "professional" tour as of yet, there's no reason why *we* > couldn't create one- we know EVERYTHING that's been in the public realm, don't we? is ANYONE on this list a travel agent? Sadly I'm not a travel agent, but I think it sounds like a great idea and I hereby volunteer to deal with the Devon bits. IIRC Simon is a Dorset dweller, when he's not in Oxford so he might know the area too. Off the top of my head so far the trip would visit Devon, Scotland, Surrey, Gower Peninsula ish and London. Any other places I've forgotten? Whee do people think the Quidditch World Cup was held? I've been thinking about isolated areas but haven't yet come up with anything conclusive. However a more suitable vehicle than my Metro would have to be begged, borrowed or conjured for any trip as I fear it wouldn't stand the pace (anyway it only holds 4). But hey I have rescue insurance. Heather From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Oct 26 15:31:49 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:31:49 -0000 Subject: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview In-Reply-To: <003101c03f45$6f5971c0$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8t9ip5+a8dh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4674 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforths_Goat" < Aberforths_Goat at Y...> wrote: > > Rowling bristles at comparisons--especially between Harry Potter and Peter > > Pan. Of J.M. Barrie's novel about a little boy who refuses to grow up, she > > said, "I find it a sinister idea. I find it stunted. I wouldn't want to go > > back to childhood. I've gotten much happier as I've gotten older. > > Good stuff! I can't get over how sane Jo seems to be. Does this interview > have a URL to it??? http://www.latimes.com/living/20001024/t000101702.html I think it will be up for the next 10 days or so, then you'll have to pay to access it. As far as comparisons to Peter Pan go, I fear the lady doth protest too much. Chapter 17 SS "Afer all, to the well-organized mind, death is but the next great adventure." Chapter 8, The Adventures of Peter Pan >>A tremour ran through him, like a shudder passing over the sea; but on the sea one shudder follows another till there are hundreds of them, and Peter felt just the one. Next moment he was standing erect on the rock again, with that smile on his face and a drum beating within him. It was saying, "To die will be an awfully big adventure." << I guess she is just really tired of superficial comparisons, and who wouldn't be. The text of Peter Pan is online at http://www.literature.org/authors/barrie-james-matthew/the-adventures- of-peter-pan/chapter-08.html with vocabulary annotations which I found really annoying Pippin From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 26 15:40:44 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:40:44 +0100 Subject: transmog bee/JKR at Skydome Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001026154044.0094e424@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4675 Elizabeth wrote: <<>> Actually, I think it was Heidi who recalled that lovely poem, after I'd posted something boring about the word transmogrify. How strange that it was a bee, when we were so recently muttering about Dumbledore's possible bee Animagus - [TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC enters stage left]. Okay, okay, that's not why he's called Dumbledore, but it was still a nice idea. If I'm correct in assuming that US senior year is when you turn 18 and leave school (i.e. graduation), I believe mine would have been in 1979. I wish it *had* been 1987 or 1988 because then I wouldn't be facing the BIG ONE next year. *** Sheryll said, on JKR's reading at the Skydome: <<>> ...and reported that JKR had said, in a Q&A session: <<>> Thanks for that great report Sheryll. I particularly enjoyed the above quotes. What a pity JK Rowling can't run the country (the UK, I mean) as well as write books. Neil PS. I'm visiting Madrid for a long weekend, so I won't be around for a few days. Feel free to burgle my house while I'm away - there's nothing worth taking. Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Oct 26 15:58:15 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:58:15 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001026155815.009372ac@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4676 Carole wrote: <<>> ***Bagsy not me - unless you want to die on British soil. Heidi wrote: I really like this idea - and I would like it even better if we could coordinate it either with the release of book5 or the release of the movie - and maybe add some sort of charity/support for Muggles for HP into it Even if there is no "professional" tour as of yet, there's no reason why *we* couldn't create one- we know EVERYTHING that's been in the public realm, don't we? is ANYONE on this list a travel agent? ***We know more than the author herself... at least, we think we do. Heather said: >Sadly I'm not a travel agent, but I think it sounds like a great idea and I >hereby volunteer to deal with the Devon bits. IIRC Simon is a Dorset >dweller, when he's not in Oxford so he might know the area too. Off the top >of my head so far the trip would visit Devon, Scotland, Surrey, Gower >Peninsula ish and London. Any other places I've forgotten? Whee do people >think the Quidditch World Cup was held? I've been thinking about isolated >areas but haven't yet come up with anything conclusive. *** Then, perhaps, we could take a sleigh ride in the northern reaches of Europe, in search of Durmstrang? Ermmmmm - where was the Quidditch World Cup? Perhaps Glastonbury? There's a big music festival held there each year, complete with tents (garden variety) and mud. It's basically a big area of fields with mystical connections. I'd be happy to drag people around London, especially if I get to use a megaphone. Maybe we could get JKR to come and speak to us and offer to donate some money to a charity of her choice... Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 26 15:58:09 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:58:09 -0500 Subject: More on Harry's Family Message-ID: <39F85491.B6F74797@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4677 Hi -- It occurred to me later that as long as we're talking about genealogical possibilities of a family relationship between Harry & Hermione, we should also consider the same scenario for Harry and the Weasleys. It's just as likely (and possibly more so given the "red hair" speculations) that Lily's mother's maiden name could have been Weasley or whatever Molly Weasley's maiden name was. Under this scenario, Harry would be 2nd cousins (or 1st cousins, once removed -- depending on which eggplant scenario you go with) with the Weasleys, *including* Ginny. :--) Of course, if Dumbledore is refusing to let Harry go straight to the Weasleys because of the protections of the "ancient magic" that he's summoned to protect Harry as long as he's with blood relatives, then it seems unlikely that the Weasleys are connected up with Harry's family. But, the same thing holds true for the Grangers. Even if Dumbledore were somehow not aware of a connection between the Grangers & Lily (Evans) Potter, it stands to reason that Hermione herself would know. She seems the type to know all about her family, even if she had to research it herself in the event her parents were closed-mouthed about their families. Penny From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 15:58:00 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:58:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: transmog bee/JKR at Skydome Message-ID: <20001026155800.26774.qmail@web1501.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4678 Oops...sorry for the mix up! Thanks, Heidi! And yes, Neil, I did mean my HS senior year. Oh, don't worry about facing the "big one" it comes to us all eventually (and hopefully). > Elizabeth wrote: > > << remember > that poem. As soon as we started discussing the word > I > start trying to rememver that poem. I think I had to > learn it my seior year of high school to, too. > (which > btw was 1987 for me)>>> > > Actually, I think it was Heidi who recalled that > lovely poem, after I'd > posted something boring about the word transmogrify. > How strange that it > was a bee, when we were so recently muttering about > Dumbledore's possible > bee Animagus - [TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC enters stage > left]. Okay, okay, that's > not why he's called Dumbledore, but it was still a > nice idea. > > If I'm correct in assuming that US senior year is > when you turn 18 and leave > school (i.e. graduation), I believe mine would have > been in 1979. I wish it > *had* been 1987 or 1988 because then I wouldn't be > facing the BIG ONE next > year. > > *** ===== Elizabeth (Rhiannon8404) ****************************8* She is like a cat in the dark And then she is the darkness. ****************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 16:13:41 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? Message-ID: <20001026161341.14771.qmail@web1502.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4679 Oooohhhh, all of this sounds like great fun! Count me in! I've been to London once and I am dying to go back and see much more of the UK. You can often get really good airfare directly from the airlines...British Airways often has great deals going on. Elizabeth (who often browses the BA website pretending that she's taking a trip somewhere.) > << group...with the cameras > whirring...we could be really tacky tourists if we > put our minds to it. > Neil and Simon and Nick could be our tour > guides...who wants to drive?>>> > > ***Bagsy not me - unless you want to die on British > soil. > > Heidi wrote: > > I really like this idea - and I would like it even > better if we could > coordinate it either with the release of book5 or > the release of the > movie - and maybe add some sort of charity/support > for Muggles for HP into it > > Even if there is no "professional" tour as of yet, > there's no reason why > *we* couldn't create one- we know EVERYTHING that's > been in the public > realm, don't we? is ANYONE on this list a travel > agent? > > ***We know more than the author herself... at least, > we think we do. > > Heather said: > > >Sadly I'm not a travel agent, but I think it sounds > like a great idea and I > >hereby volunteer to deal with the Devon bits. IIRC > Simon is a Dorset > >dweller, when he's not in Oxford so he might know > the area too. Off the top > >of my head so far the trip would visit Devon, > Scotland, Surrey, Gower > >Peninsula ish and London. Any other places I've > forgotten? Whee do people > >think the Quidditch World Cup was held? I've been > thinking about isolated > >areas but haven't yet come up with anything > conclusive. > > *** > > Then, perhaps, we could take a sleigh ride in the > northern reaches of > Europe, in search of Durmstrang? Ermmmmm - where > was the Quidditch World > Cup? Perhaps Glastonbury? There's a big music > festival held there each > year, complete with tents (garden variety) and mud. > It's basically a big > area of fields with mystical connections. > > I'd be happy to drag people around London, > especially if I get to use a > megaphone. Maybe we could get JKR to come and speak > to us and offer to > donate some money to a charity of her choice... > > Neil ===== Elizabeth (Rhiannon8404) ****************************8* She is like a cat in the dark And then she is the darkness. ****************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rgoertz at austin.rr.com Thu Oct 26 16:12:48 2000 From: rgoertz at austin.rr.com (Ryan Goertz) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:12:48 -0000 Subject: Other interpretations on the scar Message-ID: <8t9l60+v0f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4680 Hi folks, I have been lurking on the list now for about a month and feel like contributing something useless. :) I would like to give a little history as to how I was led to the reason for my subject line. About a week ago I ran across a rather disturbing japanese commercial here: http://www.stinky.com/anabu/ One of the main points of interest in the commercial is a racoon. A friend of mine and I decided to see if there are any festivals for racoons in Japan and did a search. I found out that there is a festival for racoons on November 3 in the Tokushima prefecture. At the web site they had a link for an online magazine for the location. http://www.tk2.nmt.ne.jp/~topia/awalife/october00/index.html In it was a story on the Harry Potter phenomenon. They have an image of Harry with another interpretation of his scar. http://www.tk2.nmt.ne.jp/~topia/awalife/october00/harry-kun.html Just thought I would share. Cheers, Ryan From lrcjestes at msn.com Thu Oct 26 16:28:18 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:28:18 -0400 Subject: Old age a creeping up References: <1.5.4.32.20001026154044.0094e424@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <005501c03f69$c2282260$ee8fd6ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4681 Neil wrote: > If I'm correct in assuming that US senior year is when you turn 18 and leave > school (i.e. graduation), I believe mine would have been in 1979. I wish it > *had* been 1987 or 1988 because then I wouldn't be facing the BIG ONE next > year. > Hey, I was "Class of 1979" also....although I graduated at 17....so I've got about a year and a half before 40....but Randy is already there. carole From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 17:31:25 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:31:25 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <1.5.4.32.20001026155815.009372ac@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <001701c03f72$915bad60$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4682 > Maybe we could get JKR to come and speak to us and offer to > donate some money to a charity of her choice... Perhaps she could found a psychiatric hospital for obsessional Harry Potter fans. After all, it's her fault. And at the end of a right festive banquet, strong men in white coats could conviniently round up all members of HP4GU and drag them off into padded rooms. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Oct 26 19:34:26 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:34:26 -0000 Subject: 7 Deadly Social Sins Message-ID: <8ta102+2a1f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4683 Maybe Peg could do these....? (hee, hee) 7 Deadly Social Sins - Gandhi Politics without principle Wealth without work Commerce without morality Pleasure withoutconscience Education without character Science without humanity Worship without sacrifice From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 26 20:03:50 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:03:50 -0000 Subject: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview In-Reply-To: <85.1fdbe8c.2728fe63@aol.com> Message-ID: <8ta2n6+eteh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4684 Hi! I'm afraid that your article had a few mistakes in it. I've posted the Correct version below- Rowling bristles at comparisons--especially between Harry Potter and Peter Pan. Of J.M. Barrie's novel about a little boy who refuses to grow up, she said, "I find it a sinister idea. I find it stunted. I wouldn't want to go back to childhood. I've gotten much happier as I've gotten older. That's true of most of the women I know, not necessarily of the men I know. It's my feeling that men in general hanker after childhood much more than women." Her own books, said Rowling, "are written to please me, and I am clearly an adult. I don't write what I think 8-year-olds would find funny. I write what I would find funny." Maybe this explains why so many adults--among them, the members of Harry Potter for Grownups--have devoured her books. Ok I admit it! It was a joke! (What was? The last two lines...) Sorry I couldn't resist! Scott From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sun Oct 22 11:47:55 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:47:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lily's last name References: <8ssfrr+p7k3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000001c03f9a$526a8540$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4685 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lily's last name > >Kelley: > >Since we've learned Lily's name was once Evans..... > > I could be wrong but isn't Evans Rowling's maiden name? > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sun Oct 22 11:48:25 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:48:25 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lily's last name References: <8ssfrr+p7k3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000101c03f9a$53ba36c0$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4686 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 5:22 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lily's last name > >Kelley: > >Since we've learned Lily's name was once Evans..... > > I could be wrong but isn't Evans Rowling's maiden name? I thought Rowling WAS her maiden name! Jinx From jinxster at cyberlass.com Sun Oct 22 11:52:45 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:52:45 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi References: <8sj7co+epk6@eGroups.com> <39EDABB4.837D8D61@texas.net> <39EE0E0B.A5FD38FB@alumni.upenn.edu> <000401c039fc$31cc7a80$d68f7ed4@johnmitt> <39EF6786.C8AC308B@texas.net> <00ee01c03ad4$6483a240$8c8e7ed4@johnmitt> <39F1D87E.399CCAE3@texas.net> Message-ID: <000201c03f9a$5500c080$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4687 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2000 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] pregnant animagi > Jinx wrote: > > > In most cases, I wouldn't have thought Apparating does let you take other > > people with you. But then, a child in utero is physically attached to it's > > mother and shares a bloodstream with her. > > No, the child's blood and the mother's never mix. Or they're not supposed to; > tiny bits leak over during the birth process sometimes (which are the source of > the antibody problem with the Rh factor, among other things), but there's no > regular interchange or mixing. The complex and disgusting-looking placenta is > where teeny little blood vessels come very, very close to pass nutrients, > oxygen, carbon diaoxide, and occasionally other stuff like medications and > alcohol, but a baby in utero most definitely is distinct and has all its own > systems. > > Sorry, just wanted to clarify. Biology class over. > > --Amanda Ah, right. Sorry. I never was any good at the sciences. Well, it's still physically attached though, so it's obviously not the same situation as someone apparating while holding not someone else. Jinx From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Oct 26 22:21:01 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:21:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lily's last name References: <8ssfrr+p7k3@eGroups.com> <000101c03f9a$53ba36c0$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39F8AE4D.CFF4D7B8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4688 Hi -- Jinx wrote: > > >Since we've learned Lily's name was once Evans..... > > > > I could be wrong but isn't Evans Rowling's maiden name? > > I thought Rowling WAS her maiden name! > It is! You're behind the times Jinx! We'd already settled that . . . Rowling is the daughter of Peter & Anne Rowling. She may or may not have ever taken the surname of her former husband, Arantes. In any case, Rowling is her maiden name. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 26 22:26:05 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:26:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> Message-ID: <001d01c03f9b$bd40df80$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4689 ----- Original Message ----- From: Christina Gross To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 9:03 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) > I may not remember this correctly, but weren't the cars sent by the > Ministry because the authorities were worried about Harry's safety > after what happened at the Quidditch World Cup? Harry and the > Weasleys would have been quite vulnerable on a public train, and > perhaps some supporter of Voldemort wanted to show that the Ministry > wasn't as much in control as they would have liked to be. You're mixing two different books - the Ministry cars were sent in PoA because Harry was thought to be in danger from Sirius. And it was only from Diagon Alley to Kings' Cross - not a long journey if Diagon Alley is in the vicinity of Charing Cross Road. The taxis were in GoF and they were journeying from The Burrow to London. And if it's in Exeter, that IS a very long way. And very expensive by taxi. In fact, most taxi firms probably wouldn't accept the journey. Jinx From drmm at fuuko.com Thu Oct 26 22:29:55 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:29:55 -0500 Subject: Snape vs. Lupin Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001026171919.00a941a0@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4690 <> I've never felt that Lupin had the same antagonism towards Snape that James and Sirius did. I don't think he particularly liked Snape, but nor do I think he loathed Snape the way it appears James & Sirius did. Why? We all know that Lupin, as a werewolf, ended up hurting emotionally from the treatment he received from the world in general. I think he (especially as an adult) realized that Snape had also had been treated shabbily by the world. Thus, although he didn't approve of Snape's excessive hatred, he could understand where it came from. Lupin has managed to gain empathy and understanding because of what he experienced and that's why he doesn't seem to hate Snape. I think that's part of the reason I'm becoming rather fond of Lupin (although Snape is still my favorite character). Besides, you have to admit Snape had a pretty good reason for hating Sirius (even if he *wasn't* in love with Lily). I'd be pretty angry and resentful if someone tried to trick me into nearly getting killed by a werewolf . . . *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com Most recent anime: Shoujo Kakume Utena movie From jinxster at cyberlass.com Thu Oct 26 22:55:02 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:55:02 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort's parents References: <39F7A619.96120B0A@texas.net> Message-ID: <013b01c03fa0$07950da0$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4691 > Well, for those of you (like myself) who didn't think they were, in > rereading Chamber of Secrets I saw that in the confrontation scene, Tom > Riddle says his father abandoned his mother when he found out "his wife" > was a witch. So they *were* married. Which means he's not a sorry > b*****d. Technically speaking. > > Just clearing up a detail I, at least, was fuzzy on. > > --Amanda Correction on a minor technical point. Voldemort is not illegitimate. But he IS a bastard. Jinx From donnadr at gte.net Fri Oct 27 00:19:40 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:19:40 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Other interpretations on the scar References: <8t9l60+v0f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004901c03fab$9a79b980$30a2173f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 4692 What a great article, Ryan. It brings out protective emotions. Thanks for sharing. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Goertz To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 12:12 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Other interpretations on the scar Hi folks, I have been lurking on the list now for about a month and feel like contributing something useless. :) I would like to give a little history as to how I was led to the reason for my subject line. About a week ago I ran across a rather disturbing japanese commercial here: http://www.stinky.com/anabu/ One of the main points of interest in the commercial is a racoon. A friend of mine and I decided to see if there are any festivals for racoons in Japan and did a search. I found out that there is a festival for racoons on November 3 in the Tokushima prefecture. At the web site they had a link for an online magazine for the location. http://www.tk2.nmt.ne.jp/~topia/awalife/october00/index.html In it was a story on the Harry Potter phenomenon. They have an image of Harry with another interpretation of his scar. http://www.tk2.nmt.ne.jp/~topia/awalife/october00/harry-kun.html Just thought I would share. Cheers, Ryan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Oct 27 00:50:44 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:50:44 -0400 Subject: merchandise update References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39F8D164.B82C1AB5@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4693 Got this from sylvan lane: Just a quick note to let you know that we have the WB Nimbus 2000 Ornament and the Platform 9 3/4 Bookends back in stock! We also still have a couple of sets of the Fat Lady Bookends left. See all these here: http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter.htm Also - the WIRELESS catalog has a Harry POtter colelctible ornament - it's Harry in his black robes with hedwig on his sholder and a book in his hand - the little ornament attachment looks like a crown - it's Item Number 88837 & you can order it from 800 669 9999 - it might be on their website at www.wirelesstoo.com - they also have the HP 2001 Desktop Calendar - it's item number 87679 & costs 10.99. From JandLComm at aol.com Fri Oct 27 01:03:50 2000 From: JandLComm at aol.com (JandLComm at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:03:50 -0000 Subject: kids researching from Harry Potter In-Reply-To: <8t8hio+5k1o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tak9m+doch@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4694 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ellimist15 at a... wrote> > > Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, I just wanted to thank > Steve! The > > link from the Lexicon has made my site more popular than I ever > could have > > dreamed. I got over one thousand hits just today! ::hugs Steve:: > > You're welcome (and I always like hugs). I believe what's going on > right now is a couple of middle school projects. I've been in contact > with some teachers who are using the Harry Potter books with their > classes. They assign the kids to research the etymology of the words > in Harry Potter using your site and mine. I had to help one school > get your site made available to them when it was blocked by their > filtering software. I think it's pretty cool that middle school kids > are learning about origins of words from the HP books. > > And I think it's pretty cool that they're using your site to do it! > I'm not getting THAT many hits, so I know they're heading straight > for yours. Congratulations :) > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Steve and Ellie, As one of those middle school teachers researching etymologies in Harry Potter, I want to thank you both for providing excellent resources for my kids. I made the Lexicon a favorite place in our school library, and we went there this past Monday and Wednesday (Oct. 23 and 25) to reasearch name origins. (They used the Lexicon link to your site, Ellie, and you would have thought they had found the Holy Grail!) With a little advance work, I was able to remove the blocks on various HP sites, including "What's In A Name?" and the Encyclodedia Potterica's new name origin link. (Thanks, Steve). It's so much fun for them and for me as well. (I seem to have become obsessed -- now how did that ever happen?) By the way, Ellie, my students loved your comments about Harry Potter's name and Lavender Brown's as well. They were amused. Steve, several kids are working on compiling the research we did on magical creatures in HP. They want to eamil you a copy of it to let you know how much your site helped them with the work. They really liked the book and chapter notations about where the beasts could be found in the series. Thanks again. Your work makes my job more fun! Linda Comm Greensburg, PA From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:23:05 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:23:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Taxis vs. BritRail (was: Re: Godric's Hollow) References: <8su0ma+i4kc@eGroups.com> <39F2E949.67F86D53@swbell.net> <001d01c03f9b$bd40df80$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <39F8E709.A1D0A4D5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4695 Jinx wrote: > You're mixing two different books - the Ministry cars were sent in PoA > because Harry was thought to be in danger from Sirius. Related question--Sirius is still dangerous and on the loose, and probably after Harry, so far as The Authorities are concerned. So how come they've loosened Sirius-security? We know why the dementors are gone, but Fudge doesn't seemed worried at all about Sirius getting Harry anymore. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:29:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:29:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Godric's Hollow/what happened (long) References: <8t1u9e+6i3n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F8E879.28F36F44@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4696 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > I think the Order of the Pheonix is the old crowd, a group of those > who most steadfastly fought against Voldemort, which included James > and Lily as well as Lupin, Arabella Figg, etc. Makes sense, with the name; the wizarding world was going up in flames around them, and they were working to make sure there was a world to rise from the ashes. Maybe Dumbledore has a phoenix because of this symbolism, because he heads the order? Mindlessly speculating, Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 02:34:11 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:34:11 -0000 Subject: Previously discussed topics redux Message-ID: <8tapj3+v2c3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4697 Few things: We discussed --- Hagrid's comment that "there's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." We concluded that he wasn't the most accurate reporter because we assumed Peter Pettigrew was NOT in Slytherin. I think he is accurate. IMHO PP WAS in Gryffindor, as were the other three Marauders, but Hagrid did not know PP was evil. So, there may be other witches or wizards who were evil who weren't in Slytherin, but Hagrid didn't know of them. McGonagall said that each house has produced outstanding witches and wizards. It would be interesting to know Same sentence p. 61, 62 of the PS..."You know Who was one". said Hagrid. You Know Who Was At Hogwarts? says Harry Years an' years ago, said Hagrid. So Hagrid MUST have known that Tom Riddle (who he knew at Hogwarts) became Lord Voldemort, and in fact, HARRY knows that Voldemort was at Hogwarts BEFORE CofS (although obviously not that T.R. became L.V.)So others know, but as Dumbledore says "few recall". My guess is that few people want to even THINK about the horror of Lord Voldemort, and therefore ten years later, only a few diehards are still focused on him. So, they are NOT telling their kids about it. Note Arthur Dursley telling Ron and Harry they are too young to understand, and Harry, Ron and Hermione had to pry the story out of Sirius in the PofA. As for Hermione being in Gryffindor instead of Ravenclaw, when JKR is asked what House she would want to be in (in one of the interviews, she says "Gryffindor, of course." Then she says that she'd probably end up in Ravenclaw. Since this is HER book and HER fantasy, she gets to put her alter ego -- Hermione -- where she would like to be. Susan From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:31:13 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:31:13 -0500 Subject: Unintentional magic Message-ID: <39F8E8F1.7620D8F1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4698 We've speculated that Harry is unusual because he did magic unintentionally, before he found out about himself and the wizarding world. But I just ran across Colin Creevy's little speech to Harry in book 2, where he says he never knew any of the stuff he did was magic....so maybe the magical talent just manifests when the will is focused enough (or in Colin's and Harry's case, smallish that they are, in self-preservation..)? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:37:07 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:37:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagery plus Re: Chapter 16: The Goblet of Fire References: <8t39qc+dkm4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F8EA52.1F57EC26@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4699 Joywitch wrote: > I suspect that JKR figure that BATON was close enough to imply wand, > since Beauxbaguette sounds like what you dunk in your soup. Please remit $56.97 for a new keyboard. The old one is still too sticky to type on due to the Dr. Pepper I snorted on it.... --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 02:44:15 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:44:15 -0000 Subject: How did Voldy know? (Was Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets) In-Reply-To: <31850794.972354620298.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <8taq5v+r2jb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4700 > > > Okay, the problem is that we really don't see a way for the Tom-in- the-diary > to have imparted the info to Vold-in-the-forest that it was Lily's sacrifice > which saved baby Harry. Quite right, there was no way and no time. I agree > with Amanda. > > Yet, how did Voldemort know about it in GoF? > Uh, I assume that Scabbers/Wormtail/Peter Pettigrew knew all about it having heard Harry, Ron and Hermione it discuss it endlessly. Susan From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:42:01 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:42:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] chapter 16 and food References: Message-ID: <39F8EB79.8655CC8E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4701 "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > Having said that I can understand Ron and Harry not knowing what > Bouillabaisse is. If I may point it out, the English have always prided themselves on saying foreign words in *English* rather than the foreign pronunciation. Like "Nazi" pronounced with the z as in Nazgul rather than with the "ts" sound. French cooking terms are either mangled or discarded (not that I blame them, I tend to discard them, but the terms I discard are Polish). > Just because you can recognize what is in > it does not mean that it is edible. Amen to that. I had a harrowing evening at some Polish friends' one time, where the response to "what's that" was inevitably "try it first"...... > Also if I were to cook something like > that I would call it either seafood or fish stew. I do not know many of the > proper names for dishes - I just label them by what is in it. Generally, so do the cooks of other languages, but, it's like those French have a different word for *everything*! --Amanda "omelet du fromage" From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 02:49:18 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:49:18 -0000 Subject: Movie news/ Dumbledore? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8taqfe+r32c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4702 BTW, I think Richard Harris would be terrific as Dumbledore... I loved him in Camelot..there was some concern that he is too old, but now we find out that Dumbledore himself is 150, and so... From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:47:56 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:47:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lockhart's spells References: <8t8hvg+2530@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F8ECDC.57146EE1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4703 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > It's from Calvin and Hobbes. That cardboard box Calvin uses to > transform himself (in his imagination) into various creatures and > later to create a whole bunch of duplicates of himself is called a > Transmogrifier. You know, it's probably because I have jillions of Calvin and Hobbes books in my bathroom, that I didn't even consider the use of the word as unusual. I'm betting more Americans have read Calvin and Hobbes, and know it from there, than from that (to my reading) depressing poem, but I don't know about JKR. --Amanda, devoutly happy her kids haven't made a Transmogrifier Gun or machine yet... From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 02:52:31 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:52:31 -0000 Subject: My animagus/nightmares In-Reply-To: <39F599F9.C794B7FF@texas.net> Message-ID: <8taqlf+r38l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4704 My children were born with a healthy assertiveness. My children > try to exert that assertiveness on their parents and world every waking moment > of every day. Yes, or like my son, who in the midst of a not too pleasant three year old interlude said to me "I don't yike you! (yike is like). Go back to Hogwarts!" (oh, if only I could..but I'd take him with me) Susan From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:50:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:50:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Calvin & Hobbes References: <8t8hvg+2530@eGroups.com> <39F8ECDC.57146EE1@texas.net> Message-ID: <39F8ED7D.7BC012FC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4705 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > You know, it's probably because I have jillions of Calvin and Hobbes books > in my bathroom, Whoops. The *Duplicator* made the duplicates of Calvin. The Transmogrifier, in its first incarnation as a gun, and later the box machine that turns the duplicates into worms, changes things into other things. Little details, love of little details, will be my death or divorce yet. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 02:52:34 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:52:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: How did Voldy know? (Was Mr. Malfoy & the Chamber of Secrets) References: <8taq5v+r2jb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F8EDF2.38D0BF90@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4706 Susan McGee wrote: > > Yet, how did Voldemort know about it in GoF? > > > > Uh, I assume that Scabbers/Wormtail/Peter Pettigrew knew all about > it having heard Harry, Ron and Hermione it discuss it endlessly. Well, d'oh! I feel like an idiot. After all that elegant analysis and discussion. Of course. Thanks, Susan. From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 03:13:05 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:13:05 -0000 Subject: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview/Ot/Peter Pan In-Reply-To: <8ta2n6+eteh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tars1+g66p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4707 I loved the Peter Pan movie as a child (starring Mary Martin. It was interesting, I accepted MM as a boy. But my son, aged 3, immediately identified her as a woman, as well as noticing that the crocodile was a person!) One of the saddest moments of my life was when I watched it at aged 16 and saw the wires helping them to fly (I had never seen them before that --only saw this on television, even though my big brother said they were there -- I couldn't see them) Anyway, I saw "Hook" and had a visceral reaction both to the aerial view of the land (Oh, my gosh, I thought, that's never never land!), and to the pirate scene (again, felt very real to me). So I read the book for the first time as an adult, and was very disturbed. It's a book that is very pessimistic and negative about people. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 03:14:15 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:14:15 -0000 Subject: more off topic Peter Pan In-Reply-To: <8ta2n6+eteh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8taru7+e7l4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4708 Oh, I guess as an adult I rejected the idea that growing up is bad..I agree with JKR, I LOVE being an adult, with choices, and more freedom, and more knowledge, and more insight, etc. etc. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 03:17:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:17:59 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map; Snape vs. Lupin In-Reply-To: <39F79B46.FBAF736C@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8tas57+f90c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4709 > > Yes, it's PERSONAL. Not just a generic bit of magic parchment from a joke > shop; it's personally tailored to Snape. > > You know, when Lupin reads the parchment, Harry notices that he seems to be > doing some fast thinking. I'll bet that in some small corner of his mind, > Lupin was also struggling to keep from breaking out into wild guffaws of > laughter. I would agree. > > There are several references in the text to the fact that Snape didn't get > along with James when they were all in school together. How did he get along > with Lupin himself when they were young? I strongly suspect the answer is "not > well." Besides the fact that Snape hated James and perhaps Sirius, Lupin's > best friends, there was all the fallout from James' prank. I suspect Snape and > Lupin never exactly had close confidential chats between classes. > Of course, Snape hated all the Marauders...he wanted to be one of them, or sleep with them or something... > You know, I think I would like to be a fly on the wall in the teacher's lounge > during the year Lupin is teaching at Hogwarts--I will bet that the interaction > between Lupin and Snape has been fraught all year, particularly on Snape's part > (well, practically everything is fraught on Snape's part). There was the > business about Snape assigning the werewolf essay to Lupin's class, too. Absolutely! Snape was agitating with Professor Dumbledore throughout the year that Lupin was not to be trusted, was in league with Black, etc. etc. > > Yep, I bet they STILL don't have close, confidential chats after class. > > Is the hostility all on Snape's side? Or is there some on Lupin's side as > well? I haven't really seen much in the way from hostility from Lupin. Even > when confronting Peter in the Shrieking Shack, he doesn't seem furiously angry > the way Sirius does, just grimly determined. Does he just hide hostility > well? Does he exorcize it all once a month during the full month, so he's > really extraordinarily mild-mannered the rest of the month? > > Thoughts? > > Peg I just think Lupin is a basically good guy. He's experienced a lot of hardship...ostracism, unable to get a good job, poverty...and he's one of those people who has come from hardship being well integrated..... Susan From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 27 03:20:11 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:20:11 -0000 Subject: Fleur/Viktor discussion Message-ID: <8tas9b+shc1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4710 Dear friends, please excuse me for not having posted my Fleur/Viktor discussion just yet. This week has been my midterm week and my allergies have been acting up, so it has been tough. I had my German midterm today (mentioned HP 2 or 3 times within it), my Humanities Seminar midterm paper on Tuesday and a Communication Research Methods abstract due tomorrow. All that plus a visit to the local museum for research for another paper, plus mountains of Spanish reading, plus registration for the Spring semester!!!!! I'll have it ready ASAP!!!!! ~Kaitlin From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 27 03:20:32 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:20:32 -0000 Subject: Fleur/Viktor discussion Message-ID: <8tasa0+mtcr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4711 Dear friends, please excuse me for not having posted my Fleur/Viktor discussion just yet. This week has been my midterm week and my allergies have been acting up, so it has been tough. I had my German midterm today (mentioned HP 2 or 3 times within it), my Humanities Seminar midterm paper on Tuesday and a Communication Research Methods abstract due tomorrow. All that plus a visit to the local museum for research for another paper, plus mountains of Spanish reading, plus registration for the Spring semester!!!!! I'll have it ready ASAP!!!!! ~Kaitlin From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 03:26:22 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:26:22 -0000 Subject: JKR Time web interview In-Reply-To: <39F7A6B4.35FA1141@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8tasku+9b81@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4712 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Haven't seen anyone post this URL yet? > > http://www.time.com/time/pacific/magazine/20001030/potter.html > > The most interesting line in this one for me was that when she mentioned > that everyone always pesters her with questions about whether or not > she's going to kill Ron off, she says: "As if I'm going to kill Harry's > best friend." > > Which sounds as if she's dismissing the idea, whereas I had thought that > up until now she has been careful not to rule it out. > > (Hmm. Upon rereading, I realize that this could be interpreted instead > to read that she's saying that readers are accusing HER of murdering, > rather than (hypothetically) Voldemort. A different gloss, which > doesn't, however, rule out her axing Ron in a later book. *Sigh* Which > just gives us more to wrangle about.) > Oh, no. No way. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. She's told us she's not going to have Ron killed off. SHE is in control. NOT L.V. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 03:35:26 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:35:26 -0000 Subject: Triwizard Cup Portkey (was "Things to ask Jo") In-Reply-To: <39F817C6.1B5DD622@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8tat5u+115vi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4713 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > > Voldemort is SO into breaking EVERY rule on the Evil Overlords Code of COnduct > (hi cassandra!), including but not limited to: > 6.I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them. I'm confused. Are you saying that the rule is that the evil one will NOT gloat? There are countless examples of the Evil One gloating and giving the hero time to escape. > 7.When I've captured my adversary and he says, "Look, before you kill me, will > you at least tell me what this is all about?" > I'll say, "No." and shoot him. No, on second thought I'll shoot him then > say "No." Again, classically, the Evil Ones love to expound to the hero the whole plan......Holmes and Moriarity are an example. What am I missing here? > From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 03:41:03 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:41:03 -0000 Subject: Timeline of Ages In-Reply-To: <18492157.972544967976.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <8tatgf+ercf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4714 > > Well, like I said, I disagree that there is such a large gap between > Bill/Charlie and the rest of the kids in the Weasley family. It just doesn't > make sense, Voldemort or no. Mrs. Weasley is a strong woman and obviously > chose to have seven children. She isn't the type to stop having kids because > of a dark wizard. On the contrary, it's all the more reason to carry on and > live your life as normally as possible, despite all the fear and dispair > around you. That includes having kids and raising them to be the best people > they can be. I would suggest that the decision to have seven children was made by both Arthur and Molly Weasley. Now, there are many reasons that she might now have given birth during Voldemort's reign of terror. First, is that Arthur or Molly might have been separated..one of them off fighting the good fight, therefore less chances to make love. Second, the stress might have affected his sperm count or her fertility. Third, they might have in fact gotten discouraged and decided not to bring more children into a dicey world. Fourth, they might have been having serious financial difficulties, and absolutely could not afford more kids at that moment. Fifth, if they were planning the children, they could have had birth control failures..Ginny might be unplanned. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Oct 27 03:46:57 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 03:46:57 -0000 Subject: Why did Moody wait? In-Reply-To: <001601c03f33$93c33620$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <8tatrh+hanu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4715 I'd just like everyone to factor into their analyses the psychological terrorism that Voldemort is inculcating... He wants everyone to believe that he will prevail, that he is all powerful, that resistance is futile.. He could have reanimated by finding (as Wormtail suggests --wait! JKR persistently renounces Tolkein, but Wormtongue/Wormtail) a run of the mill enemy. BUT, he wanted the confrontation with HP. He wanted to show all that the boy who had withstood him THREE times before, could not continue to stand against him. The only better target would be Dumbledore and Voldemort did not think he could win against Dumbledore. In some ways, Voldemort is waging a pr war...he wants to terrorize the magical community so that he can gain more allies, and neutralize the opposition. He fails. I hope Dumbledore has a strategic general who will let people know that Voldemort failed AGAIN...that he could NOT kill HP AGAIN.....I don't see evidence of that. Dumbledore seems to scorn the media.....too bad.. Susan From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 27 03:50:40 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:50:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <1.5.4.32.20001026155815.009372ac@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39F8FB8F.9DACBBCA@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4716 Look what I've started! Oh, I love all these ideas taking shape for a tour. I'd love to meet Simon, Neil, Heather, etc., on the other side of the ocean. And I'll probably be too broke to go. Unless . . . hmm . . . if I were also researching a book and could make enough side trips to make it all tax deductible as a research trip???? (Think of something, Peg, quick!) Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Fri Oct 27 03:53:26 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 22:53:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Deadly Social Sins References: <8ta102+2a1f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F8FC36.8994E65B@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4717 Susan McGee wrote: > Maybe Peg could do these....? (hee, hee) > > 7 Deadly Social Sins - Gandhi > > Politics without principle > Wealth without work > Commerce without morality > Pleasure withoutconscience > Education without character > Science without humanity > Worship without sacrifice > It would be fun, but oy! Folks, you DID want me to get back eventually to working on my own fiction again, yes? Peg From aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca Fri Oct 27 03:57:59 2000 From: aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca (Angela Boyko) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 00:57:59 -0300 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Triwizard Cup Portkey (was "Things to ask Jo") References: <8tat5u+115vi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F8FD47.85A07DFB@nb.sympatico.ca> No: HPFGUIDX 4718 Susan McGee wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi > wrote: > > > > > > Voldemort is SO into breaking EVERY rule on the Evil Overlords Code > of COnduct > > (hi cassandra!), including but not limited to: > > 6.I will not gloat over my enemies' predicament before killing them. > > I'm confused. Are you saying that the rule is that the evil one will > NOT gloat? There are countless examples of the Evil One gloating and > giving the hero time to escape. This is the point - the Evil Overlord's Code exists so that Evil Overlords learn from other's mistakes, and get to live longer as Evil Overlords. Basically, it makes fun of every clich?. Thanks for the link. I haven't seen that list in years, and it is still funny! Angela -- Behold Angela the Brave! ICQ: 65588507 New Brunswick, Canada, eh? AIM: angelamermaid http://www.geocities.com/ochfd42/index.html "Dreams are illustrations from the book your soul is writing about you." - Marsha Norman From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 27 05:03:12 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:03:12 -0000 Subject: Triwizard Champions (was:schapter 16 and food In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8tb2ag+ekri@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4719 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > The important point was to get one champion on each of the house > tables. (snip) The more important thing was to select Cedric, from > Hufflepuff, for Hogwarts. There is a difference between explaining the events in a work of 'fiction' based on what the AUTHOR needed to do to make the plot work, use complex symbolism, or put Draco into leather trousers, and explaining the events in a work of 'fiction' in their frame of reference (i.e. as if they were 'real' events in the 'real' world). I mean, JKR knew that Hogwarts would get TWO Champions ('two bites at zee apple', said Mme. Maxime), one from Gryffindor and one from Hufflepuff, so SHE knew to put the visitors at the other two tables if she wanted to have one Champion at each table. But Karkaroff, Maxime, and Dumbledore didn't know that Hogwarts would have TWO Champions, nor which House Hogwarts' expected one Champion would be from, so when Karkaroff, Maxime, and Dumbledore planned where the guests would sit, they did not base their plan on having one Champion at each table. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 27 05:06:10 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:06:10 -0000 Subject: Things to ask Jo. In-Reply-To: <002201c03dc6$0db41ae0$42977ed4@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8tb2g2+ngr0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4720 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Nick Mitchell" wrote: > 2. Does anyone recommend any particular threads - i.e. ones which > have vitally important questions we would like answered? I thought of two more questions that I can't believe I didn't think of in time to put them on the list of questions for the Chats: 1) What is a warlock? 2) Does a wand normally last a lifetime, or do witches and wizards normally have to replace their wands from time to time? Ollivander did make that your remark about 'your mother coming in for her first wand". From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 27 05:21:35 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:21:35 -0000 Subject: Timeline of Ages In-Reply-To: <18492157.972544967976.JavaMail.imail@doodle.excite.com> Message-ID: <8tb3cv+pgng@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4721 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Malabud wrote: > Cool list! Thank you. > A seventh-year student may correspond to a senior in high school, > but it's not the same thing. That's what Tim said, but I explained to him that I wanted to use the same wording for me as for them, and I couldn't refer to my "seventh" year. As it happens, I turned 16 in November of my senior year of high school, and turned 17 in November of my freshman year of college, and all the other fresh(wo)men in my dorm were amazed that my mother had let me leave home (to a supervised dorm! Safer than home! Except for the fire hazard...) when I was "only 16". > despite the few-babies-born-during-the-Voldemort-years theory. > >1981-2 Ginny is born; Voldemort's reign of TERROR ENDS > >1980-1 Ron is born > >1979-80 > >1978-9 Fred and George are born; Charlie's first year > >1977-8 > >1976-7 Percy is born; Bill's first year > >1971-2 V's reign of TERROR BEGINS > It just doesn't make sense, Voldemort or no. Mrs. Weasley is a > strong woman and obviously chose to have seven children. She isn't > the type to stop having kids because of a dark wizard. I believe that there is a big gap between Charlie and Percy. This belief DOES NOT depend on believing that Arthur and Molly postponed childbearing while dealing with the Voldemort emergency. ON THE CONTRARY, on my timeline, after having Bill and Charlie BEFORE the Vold years, they had ALL THE OTHERS *DURING* THE VOLD YEARS. In fact, I speculated that they DECIDED to have the others specifically BECAUSE they were fighting a (big-time) dark wizard. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 27 05:26:34 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:26:34 -0000 Subject: Lockhart's spells (transmogrification) In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.20001026103619.0092c70c@popmail.dircon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8tb3ma+rjnc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4722 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Neil Ward wrote: > Can we, then, assume that mogrify means "to form"? I think it may > be a deviation from magrify, either related to magic/mage or the > term magrif, which appears to be a prayer of Arabic origin. Back when I encountered the term in Calvin & Hobbes, I assumed that Transmogrify was a childish confusion of TRANSMutate (transmutate of elements: lead into gold), TRANSMiGRate (transmigration of souls) and metaMORphosis (as in Ovid). They're all big word for 'change' that grown-ups use. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 27 05:36:56 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:36:56 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's parents In-Reply-To: <013b01c03fa0$07950da0$fc8e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: <8tb49o+abut@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4723 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jinx" wrote: > Amanda wrote: > > Well, for those of you (like myself) who didn't think they were, > > in rereading Chamber of Secrets I saw that in the confrontation > > scene, Tom Riddle says his father abandoned his mother when he > > found out "his wife" was a witch. So they *were* married. Which > > means he's not a sorry b*****d. Technically speaking. My theory was that Tom Marvolo Riddle THOUGHT that his parents had been married because his maternal grandparents, whom I am assuming raised him for his first few years of life before they also died and he went to an orphanage, told him so. But they were lying. See my post #2555, bullet #5 within that message. From catlady at wicca.net Fri Oct 27 05:46:23 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 05:46:23 -0000 Subject: HP TOUR Message-ID: <8tb4rf+9cku@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4724 I want to go! In November of next year sounds good. The two main places that I have always wanted to see are Britain and Egypt, but besides financial considerations, I am a scaredy cat and don't want to go to furrin places alone .... but going with this warm group of friends from HPfG sounds WONDERFUL! Can we squeeze in a side trip to Stonehenge, even tho' it isn't in HP? Even tho' I have been assured by all and sundry that the real Stonehenge doesn't look very impressive (unlike the inaccurate replica Stonehenge on the Washington State side of the Columbia River Gorge. Wow). From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Oct 27 06:07:42 2000 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 06:07:42 -0000 Subject: Triwizard Champions (was:schapter 16 and food In-Reply-To: <8tb2ag+ekri@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tb63e+mn8i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4725 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon J. Branford" wrote: > > > There is a difference between explaining the events in a work of > 'fiction' based on what the AUTHOR needed to do to make the plot > work, use complex symbolism, or put Draco into leather trousers (snip) > *raises eyebrow at Rita* Ahem? From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Oct 27 10:55:07 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:55:07 +0100 Subject: HP tour, movie news and food Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4726 The idea of a HP Tour sounds brilliant. I have not really been to any of the places that we have guessed for the locations in the Harry Potter world. It would also be cool to meet up with others from the group. The timing I am not really in a position to comment on. I finish university at the beginning of June and as yet have no plans for the future. By November I hope to have a job but will just have to wait and see. I read an article on the Empire online website - it confirms many of my comments about the film security. http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?2651 They seem to have finished filming now and I have got nowhere near any of the main cast. I have just seem many little kids running around wearing the Hogwarts uniform. Amanda wrote: "Amen to that. I had a harrowing evening at some Polish friends' one time, where the response to "what's that" was inevitably "try it first"......" Apologies for this being off topic, but I found it very amusing. A friend ended up spending a few weeks in Eastern Europe this summer. One day he was eating a meal with friends some from whichever country he was in (I cannot remember which country it was). On the table he saw something he thought to be onion bhajis - i.e. he picked up something that was deep fried out of a bowl. On tasting he realised it was not onion bhaji, but thought that it was some non descript type of meat. The one of the others asked him if he had tried sheep's brain and he replied that he did not really like the idea and would not. The other person replied that he hoped that my friend would not mind him eating it any way. And I can guess that you will know what he then picked up to eat! Simon (apologies if this is incoherent - I am trying to clear my inbox of messages before going away for the weekend) From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Oct 27 12:41:08 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 27 Oct 2000 05:41:08 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview/Ot/Peter Pan Message-ID: <20001027124108.3787.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4727 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 27 13:11:58 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 06:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview/Ot/Peter Pan Message-ID: <20001027131158.26942.qmail@web1501.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4728 > > So I read the book for the first time as an adult, > and was very disturbed. It's a book that is very > pessimistic and negative about people. > > Susan, > > Have you ever read any of the Mary Poppins books? I > expected them all to be light and breezy - you know, > just like the Disney-fied version, but after reading > the books, I was soooo disappointed. I really > disliked the woman. Sure, she was a mysterious, > magical character, but not really very nice... > > Voicelady It is really frustrating what Disney does to classic works of literature. I have read the original books, of Peter Pan, Mary Poppins, Bambi and the Hunchback of Notre Dame. I thought all were very good books which I enjoyed once I really concentrated on putting the Disney version out of my head. You really have to view them as two separate things and not try to reconcile the movie with the book. ===== Elizabeth (Rhiannon8404) ****************************8* She is like a cat in the dark And then she is the darkness. ****************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 13:39:38 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:39:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview/Ot/Peter Pan References: <20001027124108.3787.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <39F9859A.FB052B75@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4729 voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > On Thu, 26 October 2000, "Susan McGee" wrote (re: Peter Pan): > > > So I read the book for the first time as an adult, and was very disturbed. It's a book that is very pessimistic and negative about people. > > Susan, > > Have you ever read any of the Mary Poppins books? I expected them all to be light and breezy - you know, just like the Disney-fied version, but after reading the books, I was soooo disappointed. I really disliked the woman. Sure, she was a mysterious, magical character, but not really very nice... Yaay! I'm not abnormal! It's just wonderful to hear other people speaking my heresy, that so many of these "children's classics" are bummers. I think whoever wrote that JKR protests too much vis-a-vis Peter Pan comparisons are way off. JKR's books are about the slow ascent and realization of maturity, even during childhood, and Peter Pan is about halting that process to maturity. And I, too, was disappointed in the Poppins books. I am often fond of stern-on-the-surface characters, but I found the literary Poppins entirely lacking in redeeming charm. Perhaps I'm not subtle enough. --Amanda the heretic From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Fri Oct 27 14:01:47 2000 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:01:47 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Old age a creeping up Message-ID: <31.bbadb3f.272ae4cb@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4730 In a message dated 10/26/00 12:32:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lrcjestes at msn.com writes: << Neil wrote: > If I'm correct in assuming that US senior year is when you turn 18 and leave > school (i.e. graduation), I believe mine would have been in 1979. I wish it > *had* been 1987 or 1988 because then I wouldn't be facing the BIG ONE next > year. > Hey, I was "Class of 1979" also....although I graduated at 17....so I've got about a year and a half before 40....but Randy is already there. carole >> Hey don't feel bad Carole, I'm the "class of 1978" I am past old. Will be 41 this December Coleen From kathleen at carr.org Fri Oct 27 14:42:42 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:42:42 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? Message-ID: <200010271519.e9RFJ0U11259@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 4731 >I want to go now!!!! Has anyone thought of organizing a HP tour for all us >obsessive types? I know there is such a thing as a Beatles tour...why not >HP. I think we should all go as one big chartered group...with the cameras >whirring...we could be really tacky tourists if we put our minds to it. >Neil and Simon and Nick could be our tour guides...who wants to drive? > >carole THAT. WOULD. BE. SO. COOL! Kathy From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 27 15:53:04 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:53:04 -0000 Subject: Why did Moody wait? In-Reply-To: <8tatrh+hanu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tc8d0+vbm2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4732 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > I'd just like everyone to factor into their analyses the > psychological terrorism that Voldemort is inculcating... > > He wants everyone to believe that he will prevail, that he > is all powerful, that resistance is futile.. > > He could have reanimated by finding (as Wormtail suggests --wait! > JKR persistently renounces Tolkein, but Wormtongue/Wormtail) > a run of the mill enemy. > > BUT, he wanted the confrontation with HP. He wanted to show all > that the boy who had withstood him THREE times before, could not > continue to stand against him. The only better target would be > Dumbledore and Voldemort did not think he could win against > Dumbledore. > > In some ways, Voldemort is waging a pr war...he wants to terrorize > the magical community so that he can gain more allies, and neutralize > the opposition. > > He fails. I hope Dumbledore has a strategic general who will let > people know that Voldemort failed AGAIN...that he could NOT kill HP > AGAIN.....I don't see evidence of that. Dumbledore seems to scorn > the media.....too bad.. > > Susan Hmmm...That's an interesting point, Susan. The problem is Voldemort is actually losing this PR War. Face it, the guy lost 3 times to a student wizard because he miscalculated something. The first time, he miscalculated Lily's sacrifice. The second time, he miscalculated Quirrell's (and his) inability to touch Harry without causing great pain. The third time, he miscalculated the Priori Incantatem. Objectively, if I were a Death Eater I would be secretly questioning Voldemort's ability to successfully destroy Harry. But there's something about Harry. I think Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow that night to kill Harry and not Lily and James. :-)Milz From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Oct 27 16:23:38 2000 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:23:38 -0000 Subject: Peter and Potter In-Reply-To: <39F9859A.FB052B75@texas.net> Message-ID: <8tca6a+5q5u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4733 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Yaay! I'm not abnormal! It's just wonderful to hear other people speaking my heresy, that so many of these "children's classics" are bummers. I think whoever wrote that JKR protests too much vis-a-vis Peter Pan comparisons are way off. JKR's books are about the slow ascent and realization of maturity, > even during childhood, and Peter Pan is about halting that process to maturity. And I, too, was disappointed in the Poppins books. I am often fond of stern-on-the-surface characters, but I found the literary Poppins entirely lacking in redeeming charm. Perhaps I'm not subtle enough. > > --Amanda the heretic I love The Adventures of Peter Pan...but yes, it does take a dark view of the world, and Barrie is insistent on showing the negative side of Peter's character. That may be a shock if you've only seen the musical version on TV. IMO, the character Harry should be compared to is not Peter but Wendy, who takes on an adult role even in childhood, and then chooses of her own accord to grow up "a day earlier than other girls" if I have that quote right. Peter is a boy who refuses to grow up: he has witnessed many tragedies and forgotten all of them. The HP character he reminds me of most is Cornelius Fudge. I think the words above are revealing. Disney has conditioned us to expect charm from our kidlit and we're disappointed if we don't get it. Pippin the heretic who hates Disney versions (ducking sharp objects now) but loved the Mary Martin Peter Pan, ropes and all. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Oct 27 16:46:36 2000 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:46:36 -0000 Subject: Marauder's Map; Snape vs. Lupin In-Reply-To: <8tas57+f90c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tcbhc+ja8u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4734 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > > Yes, it's PERSONAL. Not just a generic bit of magic parchment from > a joke > > shop; it's personally tailored to Snape. > > > > You know, when Lupin reads the parchment, Harry notices that he > seems to be > > doing some fast thinking. I'll bet that in some small corner of > his mind, > > Lupin was also struggling to keep from breaking out into wild > guffaws of > > laughter. > > I would agree. > > > > > There are several references in the text to the fact that Snape > didn't get > > along with James when they were all in school together. How did he > get along > > with Lupin himself when they were young? I strongly suspect the > answer is "not > > well." Besides the fact that Snape hated James and perhaps Sirius, > Lupin's > > best friends, there was all the fallout from James' prank. I > suspect Snape and > > Lupin never exactly had close confidential chats between classes. > > > Of course, Snape hated all the Marauders...he wanted to be one of > them, or sleep with them or something... > > > > You know, I think I would like to be a fly on the wall in the > teacher's lounge > > during the year Lupin is teaching at Hogwarts--I will bet that the > interaction > > between Lupin and Snape has been fraught all year, particularly on > Snape's part > > (well, practically everything is fraught on Snape's part). There > was the > > business about Snape assigning the werewolf essay to Lupin's class, > too. > > Absolutely! Snape was agitating with Professor Dumbledore throughout > the year that Lupin was not to be trusted, was in league with Black, > etc. etc. > > > > > Yep, I bet they STILL don't have close, confidential chats after > class. > > > > Is the hostility all on Snape's side? Or is there some on Lupin's > side as > > well? I haven't really seen much in the way from hostility from > Lupin. Even > > when confronting Peter in the Shrieking Shack, he doesn't seem > furiously angry > > the way Sirius does, just grimly determined. Does he just hide > hostility > > well? Does he exorcize it all once a month during the full month, > so he's > > really extraordinarily mild-mannered the rest of the month? > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Peg > > I just think Lupin is a basically good guy. He's experienced a lot > of hardship...ostracism, unable to get a good job, poverty...and > he's one of those people who has come from hardship being well > integrated..... > > Susan I think Snape as a student has a similar personality to Draco Malfoy. Which also explains to me why Draco is Snape's favorite student. Perhaps Snape and the Marauders antagonized each other as students? Perhaps Snape suspected Lupin was a werewolf based on his absenses/illnesses and the lunar calendar. It would have been the best weapon against the Marauders to reveal to the whole school that Lupin was a werewolf. I'm not justifying Sirius' joke because it was reckless. But Snape finally gets his trump card and Dumbledore makes him promise not to use it. In a way, Snape is forced to into a conspiracy of silence to protect his enemies. That experience probably embittered Snape more against the Marauders. It wouldn't surprise me if Snape joined the Dark Side as a way to "get even" with the Marauders. Nor would it be surprising if Snape blames the Marauders for his decision to join with Voldemort: that their behavior drove him to the Dark Side. His anger and hostility in PoA only revealed the depths of his bitterness and hate (not to mention his hatred toward Harry for being James Potter's son). In other words, Snape is one angry man who would probably benefit from psychological counselling. It would be interesting to see what exactly drove Snape back to Our Side. :-) Milz From editor at texas.net Fri Oct 27 20:11:13 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:11:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Peter and Potter References: <8tca6a+5q5u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39F9E160.2B8BE8FD@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4735 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > I think the words above are revealing. Disney > has conditioned us to expect charm from our kidlit and we're > disappointed if we don't get it. A clarification. In order for me to be attracted to a character, there must be something about them I like. Charm was what I was expecting from Mary Poppins, somewhat due to the Disney version, but also because I'd heard the books described as such. I was disappointed at not finding it in a place I'd been led to believe I would. Hence my "redeeming charm" comment. I don't expect children's literature to be charming, as a generalization. Anyone who's read honest-to-Buddha fairy tales, before Disneyization, knows there's loads of uncharming, downright terrifying characters in there. And it's the archetypal tales that I, and now my kids, are most fond of. > Pippin the heretic who hates Disney versions (ducking sharp > objects now) but loved the Mary Martin Peter Pan, ropes and all. I'm kind of two minds on the Disney thing. One, they have such a PR and marketing machine going, that anything they make quickly becomes the Official Version, and I'm too much a lover of the traditional to like that. On the other hand, there's precious little anymore that's pan-cultural besides such modern icons. And very few places in the modern world are just the way you remembered it as a kid, that you can go back to and show your kids, etc., like Disney parks. And lastly, there are the kids in whom it engraves a lasting memory and prompts further investigation or study, like all the paleontologists I've read who lay the beginnings of their love of the field at the feet of "Fantasia" (which was an altered interpretation of the composer's intended scenario, too). On the other hand, I *still* won't, and never will, allow my kids to have "Pocohontas." When they begin to change history, as opposed to fiction, I lose my charitable outlook. --Amanda From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Fri Oct 27 22:21:53 2000 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:21:53 -0000 Subject: Welcome Backs, OT rants...(long!) In-Reply-To: <39F6F7F0.969D3A6D@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tcv61+a04g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4736 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > I'm so glad to see some of our old Yahoo members drifting back in > from time to time. I'd begun to wonder whether the switch to > egroups had scared them away. So, welcome back to Jen P & > Suzanne. Wow, thanks, Penny! I saw the heading for this message and thought "Jen? Hmm...... " and clicked it, and it was for me! It just gives me a warm feeling inside. :) I think I have been scared a little bit - not exactly by the move, but by the fact that there are still sooooooooooo many new messages per day and we're almost 4 months after the fourth book came out. I thought it would have tapered off a bit, especially with summer over and all of the people who have to go to school (whether students or teachers) being busy again. Me, I'm busy with my students... uh oh, I feel a rant coming on... Okay, here goes. I work for a special program at my community college, and said program is for disadvantaged adults, mainly "welfare-to-work" clients. The problem I'm facing is that now I'm being evaluated by my students. Okay, this doesn't *seem* like it would be a problem, right? It gives me a chance to see which areas I could work on and improve, right? Wrong! Instead, it gives me a chance to hear that I have a "bad attitude", and "I have found nothing exemplary at all in this teacher, but I will always respect her" (meanwhile, giving me all "poors" on my ratings. And why am I being rated this way? Because I told them I'm not giving any makeup exams and that I mark them late if they're not in class by 5 minutes after the hour. That makes me a hard nose. Ooooookay. Sorry. I really shouldn't be complaining. I have this cushy job where I get to play on the computer a lot and grade easy papers - and they've had a terrible time getting through the past 5,10, or 20 years. It just doesn't endear me to the teaching profession, if you know what I mean. Anyway, it's another weekend of yard work and catching up on sleep. I hope to be able to join you guys for the chat on Sunday - it's been at least a month since I've been there. Hope to see you soon! Jen From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Fri Oct 27 23:01:05 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:01:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: HP TOUR In-Reply-To: <8tb4rf+9cku@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4737 Fantastic plan! I'm currently studying at St Andrews University (yes, that's where Prince William is going...), and would be happy to show folks around Scotland: Skye, the Highlands, Dundee (home of Sirius Black and officially the Greyest Town in the UK) etc. I'm also very familiar with Somerset, the Lake District and Cornwall. As far as flights go, I'd be more than willing to go enquire at the University Travel Service here in StAs (bookable by phone and internet, BTW...). As an example, they got me a fare for GBP 212 round trip Edinburgh-NY at Xmas. Alternatively, I'm very fond of Expedia.com. If anyone wants fare tips from someone who's been flying NY-UK for the last 7 years, don't hesitate to shout! Question -- has anyone thought how to get about the UK? Rail is bloody expensive (and not too safe, convenient or punctual lately), but air is okay from Scotland-London with easyJet. Perhaps renting a coach or a couple of minibuses? How terribly exciting! --John ======================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com When I am an Evil Overlord...#35 I will not grow a goatee. In the old days they made you look diabolic. Now they just make you look like a disaffected member of Generation X. ======================================== From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Sat Oct 28 00:23:56 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:23:56 +0100 Subject: Hp at Kings Cross Message-ID: <029a01c04075$5c71ff60$3075883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4738 Today on my way home from college I saw no fewer than 20 people reading HP on the train and tube. When i got on the Victoria line at Euston there were 5 in my carriage reading HP 3 GoF, 1 PoA and 1 PS. One of the GoF's got off at Kings Cross which I thought was appropriate. The others were all spotted at Tottenham Hale on passing commuter trains while waiting for my (delayed) train. 6 on the Stanstead airport train. 5 on their way to Kings Lynn. 3 heading for Bishops Stortford and 1 reader on my train (to Broxbourne) and it wasn't me. There you are Harry Potter is if not on the way to world domination certainly appears to be the London commuters favourite reading matter. It was a needed distraction as the Hatfield crash has now blown my theory about train safety out of the water. Previously I felt if I avoided the first and last two carriages and didn't travel first class I'd be OK but the dead were in the middle this time. Heather who enjoyed her survey as it distracted her from her twice daily peril at the hands of railtrack. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 28 00:31:36 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 20:31:36 -0400 Subject: more merchandise References: <8tcv61+a04g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FA1E68.F54B63C8@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4739 Again, from Sylvian Lane: We now have the Harry Potter Trivia Game and the Quidditch Card Game in stock! Go here to order: http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/order_harrypotter_games.htm We also have the Hogwarts Crest Spiral Notebooks back in stock, they can be seen here: http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter.htm From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 02:19:55 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:19:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Peter (& Disney) References: <8tca6a+5q5u@eGroups.com> <39F9E160.2B8BE8FD@texas.net> Message-ID: <020a01c04085$902bee00$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4740 Amanda, Could you elaborate on the "changing history?" We do own Pocahontas, and I knew there was something not quite right about it... I haven't seen MM's Peter Pan in ages, and barely recall it, but I have seen Cathy Rigby's (A&E, on sale currently), and I have read the book (courtesy of the SCPLibrary!). I noticed the CR version kept more to the tone of the true book, but there are pieces of the Disney that I just enjoy more. It's not true to the subject, no, but I can appreciate Disney for relating the material in these books to a level that my son can understand. Someone mentioned back on Yahoo how they mutilated Mulan (And I still wish someone would post an URL, or something about that true story!). It's got a moral to the story, the Disney version, that no matter what gender you are, you can overcome the odds. Pocahontas is the acceptance of people, savages, despite their race. Even Little Mermaid is more darker than the Disney version, and I know the evil queen in Snow White didn't just fade away, she wore heated irons, and was forced to dance at SW's wedding. (Yes, I am repeating a few things, but we've a few new people.) I try to see beyond Disney, using Disney as that jumping part for stories I haven't investigated before. I never knew the storyline for Hunchback. I know it's sugar coated, but at least I have something to go on. And as for Peter Pan? Well my son is going (all week--that's why no posts!) to everything this Halloween as Captain Hook. Tell me that movies don't have an impression? He likes both versions, the CR and the Disney, but watches CR more--"I don't want to grow up". Watching the CR version, I can't stop laughing. Hook (the actor, I cannot recall) does the lines so perfectly, they are hilarious. I keep wondering what they left out due to time constriction? ;) Dee, tricker or treater anonymous. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Peter and Potter foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > I think the words above are revealing. Disney > has conditioned us to expect charm from our kidlit and we're > disappointed if we don't get it. A clarification. In order for me to be attracted to a character, there must be something about them I like. Charm was what I was expecting from Mary Poppins, somewhat due to the Disney version, but also because I'd heard the books described as such. I was disappointed at not finding it in a place I'd been led to believe I would. Hence my "redeeming charm" comment. I don't expect children's literature to be charming, as a generalization. Anyone who's read honest-to-Buddha fairy tales, before Disneyization, knows there's loads of uncharming, downright terrifying characters in there. And it's the archetypal tales that I, and now my kids, are most fond of. > Pippin the heretic who hates Disney versions (ducking sharp > objects now) but loved the Mary Martin Peter Pan, ropes and all. I'm kind of two minds on the Disney thing. One, they have such a PR and marketing machine going, that anything they make quickly becomes the Official Version, and I'm too much a lover of the traditional to like that. On the other hand, there's precious little anymore that's pan-cultural besides such modern icons. And very few places in the modern world are just the way you remembered it as a kid, that you can go back to and show your kids, etc., like Disney parks. And lastly, there are the kids in whom it engraves a lasting memory and prompts further investigation or study, like all the paleontologists I've read who lay the beginnings of their love of the field at the feet of "Fantasia" (which was an altered interpretation of the composer's intended scenario, too). On the other hand, I *still* won't, and never will, allow my kids to have "Pocohontas." When they begin to change history, as opposed to fiction, I lose my charitable outlook. --Amanda eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 01:41:40 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:41:40 -0000 Subject: Fleur/Viktor discussion Message-ID: <8tdask+105re@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4741 Fleur Delacour French for "Flower of the court." A student at the Beauxbatons Academy in France. Obviously seventeen or older. The guys are crazy for her because, as we later find out, she's part veela. We discover that her grandmother was a veela, and that one of her hairs makes up the magical core of Fleur's wand (9 ? inches, inflexible, rosewood). She comes to Hogwarts to participate in the Triwizard Tournament and gets selected as school champion for Beauxbatons. She's very good at charms. Fleur starts out not being too impressed with Harry, but in the end she is very grateful to him for having saved her sister's life in the second task. I personally was unimpressed by Fleur (perhaps it is because I am a female?). She had some trouble in the competition. I would have been happier if Fleur was at least a threat to the others, but she remained in fourth place for nearly the whole thing. My favorite scene with Fleur is at the Yule Ball, when she is with Roger Davies of Ravenclaw. Roger, like every other guy who tried to ask Fleur to the ball, is going absolutely gaga over her. It's like he's under a spell: "Roger Davies was watching her talk with a very dazed look on his face, and he kept missing his mouth with his fork. Harry had the impression that Davies was too busy staring at Fleur to take in a word she was saying" (418). Anyways, in the end, Fleur thanks Harry for having saved her sister's life and tells him and Ron that she wants to come back and " get a job `ere, to improve my Eenglish" (724). Ron's excited, Hermione's really not. So that's it with Fleur. There wasn't really a whole lot about her, but I think we'll definitely see her again. Viktor Krum A student of the Durmstrang Institute in Bulgaria. The star seeker for the Bulgarian National Quiddich team. He catches the snitch at the World Cup final to lose the game for Bulgaria. I still don't get it. As I said before, he's like Durmstrang's Harry Potter?the miraculous Quiddich seeker and the Headmaster's favorite boy. However, he is very impressed by Harry's flying. (An aside: Does anyone ever wonder why, when speaking to each other, the people from Beauxbatons and Durmstrang speak English? Yes, I know, if she put it in French or Bulgarian we wouldn't understand it, but still it's the whole concept that bugs me.) Viktor comes to Hogwarts to participate in the Triwizard Championship. No big surprise when he is selected. The girls, who were crazy about him before, are even crazier about him now. They follow him around, trying to get his autograph. Surprisingly, Ron is also one of his adoring fans. However, Viktor stuns them all by falling in love with Hermione and taking her to the Yule Ball. It is because of him that we learn how to really pronounce her name: Her- MY-oh-nee. He is the biggest competition for Cedric and Harry. However, I do not really understand what is going on in the end does someone use Imperious Curse on him to get him to put the Cruciatus Curse on others? I got a little confused in the explanation. Anyway, that's about it with Viktor. I can't think of anything else. Questions? Comments? You guys are getting good at this. Enjoy! ~Kaitlin From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 28 02:13:14 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:13:14 -0000 Subject: Why did Moody wait? In-Reply-To: <8tc8d0+vbm2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tdcnq+ml8p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4742 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > I'd just like everyone to factor into their analyses the > > psychological terrorism that Voldemort is inculcating... > > > > He wants everyone to believe that he will prevail, that he > > is all powerful, that resistance is futile.. > > > > He could have reanimated by finding (as Wormtail suggests --wait! > > JKR persistently renounces Tolkein, but Wormtongue/Wormtail) > > a run of the mill enemy. > > > > BUT, he wanted the confrontation with HP. He wanted to show all > > that the boy who had withstood him THREE times before, could not > > continue to stand against him. The only better target would be > > Dumbledore and Voldemort did not think he could win against > > Dumbledore. > > > > In some ways, Voldemort is waging a pr war...he wants to terrorize > > the magical community so that he can gain more allies, and > neutralize > > the opposition. > > > > He fails. I hope Dumbledore has a strategic general who will let > > people know that Voldemort failed AGAIN...that he could NOT kill HP > > AGAIN.....I don't see evidence of that. Dumbledore seems to scorn > > the media.....too bad.. > > > > Susan > MILZ says: > Hmmm...That's an interesting point, Susan. > > The problem is Voldemort is actually losing this PR War. Face it, the > guy lost 3 times to a student wizard because he miscalculated > something. > Hollow that night to kill Harry and not Lily and James. > > :-)Milz He is losing the war in one way...which is why he tried to kill Harry in the dramatic duel a deux at the end of GoF. On the other hand, Rita Skeeter is helping him win by discrediting Arthur Weasley, Dumbledore, Harry, etc. which is losing Dumbledore et al. support. Rita Skeeter seems to be very thick with the Slytherins...is she a tool or ally of Lord Voldemort? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 28 02:19:56 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:19:56 -0000 Subject: Fleur/Viktor discussion In-Reply-To: <8tdask+105re@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tdd4d+am1v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4743 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > Fleur Delacour > French for "Flower of the court." A student at the Beauxbatons > Academy in France. Obviously seventeen or older. The guys are crazy > for her because, as we later find out, she's part veela. We discover > that her grandmother was a veela, and that one of her hairs makes up > the magical core of Fleur's wand (9 ? inches, inflexible, rosewood). > She comes to Hogwarts to participate in the Triwizard Tournament and > gets selected as school champion for Beauxbatons. She's very good at > charms. > Fleur starts out not being too impressed with Harry, but in the end > she is very grateful to him for having saved her sister's life in the > second task. > I personally was unimpressed by Fleur (perhaps it is because I am a > female?). She had some trouble in the competition. I would have > been happier if Fleur was at least a threat to the others, but she > remained in fourth place for nearly the whole thing. I would have been happier if she had shown up better, too, but I was impressed that she was grateful to Harry and Ron for rescuing her sister and not defensive. > My favorite scene with Fleur is at the Yule Ball, when she is with > Roger Davies of Ravenclaw. Roger, like every other guy who tried to > ask Fleur to the ball, is going absolutely gaga over her. It's like > he's under a spell: "Roger Davies was watching her talk with a very > dazed look on his face, and he kept missing his mouth with his fork. > Harry had the impression that Davies was too busy staring at Fleur to > take in a word she was saying" (418). > Anyways, in the end, Fleur thanks Harry for having saved her sister's > life and tells him and Ron that she wants to come back and " get a > job `ere, to improve my Eenglish" (724). Ron's excited, Hermione's > really not. That's strange. Why would Hermione care -- Harry is not interested in Fleur and everyone knows that Hermione is not interested in Ron, > So that's it with Fleur. There wasn't really a whole lot about her, > but I think we'll definitely see her again. > > Viktor Krum > A student of the Durmstrang Institute in Bulgaria. The star seeker > for the Bulgarian National Quiddich team. He catches the snitch at > the World Cup final to lose the game for Bulgaria. I still don't get > it. As I said before, he's like Durmstrang's Harry Potter?the > miraculous Quiddich seeker and the Headmaster's favorite boy. > However, he is very impressed by Harry's flying. > (An aside: Does anyone ever wonder why, when speaking to each other, > the people from Beauxbatons and Durmstrang speak English? Yes, I > know, if she put it in French or Bulgarian we wouldn't understand it, > but still it's the whole concept that bugs me.) > Viktor comes to Hogwarts to participate in the Triwizard > Championship. No big surprise when he is selected. The girls, who > were crazy about him before, are even crazier about him now. They > follow him around, trying to get his autograph. Surprisingly, Ron is > also one of his adoring fans. However, Viktor stuns them all by > falling in love with Hermione and taking her to the Yule Ball. It is > because of him that we learn how to really pronounce her name: Her- > MY-oh-nee. > He is the biggest competition for Cedric and Harry. However, I do > not really understand what is going on in the end does someone use > Imperious Curse on him to get him to put the Cruciatus Curse on > others? I got a little confused in the explanation. The fake Moody/B. Crouch, Jr. put the Imperius curse on Viktor, and compelled him to put the Cruciatus curse on Cedric Diggory. I'm thinking..hmmm...why didn't Crouch just put the Cruciatus curse directly on Diggory? Then I'm back to my theory expressed in prior posts -- that Voldemort wanted the whole magical world watching -- hence the whole buildup at the TriWizard tournament, so that everyone would know how he had hoodwinked AB and defeated HP. From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Oct 28 02:31:23 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:31:23 -0000 Subject: Peter and Potter/Disney, maybe not so offtopic In-Reply-To: <39F9E160.2B8BE8FD@texas.net> Message-ID: <8tddpr+lmm3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4744 No, I haven't read the Poppins book, but didn't like the movie as much as some (I loved the dancing and singing, but I didn't really like the plot much). I love Fantasia, and I love the Mary Martin Peter Pan, as I said it's engraved indelibly into my psyche through childhood mystery and wonder right up there with Robin Hood, the Swamp Fox, Zorro, and the Wizard of Oz. But have you watched Dumbo lately? I would no more allow my kids to watch that then I would allow them to watch the Exorcist! I agree that whomever is comparing JKR with Barrie is off...HP is about maturing, yes, but it's also about the great battle between good and evil.....Peter Pan..gosh, doesn't it basically say that children are not really innocent, but are savages? Hmmm..but it also says that childhood is wonderful. Okay, I'm babbling again, you can hit delete. One of my dear friends said that he had the best childhood the second time around -- watching his kids grow up --- real childhood is fraught with fears, and insecurities, and figuring things out, as well as wonder and joy unbesmirched by cynicism (for some, some children don't grow up in places that allow them to be kids). I agree with JKR that it's more fun to be an adult. Anyway, I took to heart the PP song that says "once you have found your way there, you can never, ever grow old". Wendy could have gone back to Never Never Land, and I may just go there right now. Second star to the left, and straight on until morning... Susan From aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca Sat Oct 28 02:37:04 2000 From: aboyko at nb.sympatico.ca (Angela Boyko) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:37:04 -0300 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Peter (& Disney) References: <8tca6a+5q5u@eGroups.com> <39F9E160.2B8BE8FD@texas.net> <020a01c04085$902bee00$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39FA3BD0.6084840E@nb.sympatico.ca> No: HPFGUIDX 4745 > Even Little Mermaid is more darker than the Disney version, and I know the evil queen >in Snow White didn't just fade away, she wore heated irons, and was forced to dance at >SW's wedding. (Yes, I am repeating a few things, but > we've a few new people.) I just saw 'Ever After' for the first time - and I loved how the stepmother was treated at the end! I detested Disney's version of 'The Little Mermaid' - I thought Ariel was a spoiled brat and I couldn't understand why she'd want to stop being a mermaid. I'd love to be a mermaid! Angela -- Behold Angela the Brave! ICQ: 65588507 New Brunswick, Canada, eh? AIM: angelamermaid http://www.geocities.com/ochfd42/index.html "Dreams are illustrations from the book your soul is writing about you." - Marsha Norman From kippesp at swbell.net Sat Oct 28 02:42:48 2000 From: kippesp at swbell.net (smitster ) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 02:42:48 -0000 Subject: NPR Interview & HP Merchandise Stuff Message-ID: <8tdef8+k945@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4746 Hi all! NPR: This morning NPR aired an interview recorded with JKR last Friday (after the Today show thing). An extended version is on NPR's web site (http://www.npr.org/programs/morning or http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/001027.potter.html). JKR mentioned her two chairty books. They will both be about 10,000 words. We pretty much know the content subjects--I'm looking forward to finally reading it! JKR also responded to her thoughts on the film, merchandise crud (no REAL response, though), and other infrequently talked about things. Good interview--about 20 minutes. I recommend if you can stand the poor performance of "streamed" Real Player audio. (Also note that there is a 6 minute version of this interview that actually aired, you probably won't want to listen to that.) I learned from this report that the New York Times had HP related article on 1 January 2000. It was in their what-will-life-be-like-in- 2020 (or some such date) fictional version of the front page. I'm going to head to the library tomorrow to see if I can get this, but it sounded rather funny. The headline was something like Quidditch World Cup Won By Woman. Serves me right for being on holiday at that time of year! If I find it, I'll transcribe it. Merchandise: I took time to see if my Hallmark received their ornaments. Finally!! I won't bore you with this except to say it took they were about a month late. In addition to everything else that people have given links to, my store also had different bookends from the WB store. (Heidi gave a link regarding this--the "through the Fat Lady" bookends.) The link Heidi provided shows well enough what they are, but I should warn you that the Fat Lady is a paper cutout glewed on. Very tacky, IMO! But one would need to pick up the bookend to notice this. :) But the best part of my adventure to the Hallmark store was the puzzle--450 pieces, I think. It is a puzzle of the Great Hall. Different (and smaller) than I pictured it, but I thought it showed that the artest had read the books. The ceiling was of the stary, black night sky (correct), Hagrid was at the main table (correct in later books), Neville was chaising his toad, etc. I didn't count the number of professors, but I was distracted by the coolness of the toad! (I've tried to find a picture on the Web, but nothing--poo!) That's it. (And I don't work for Hallmark or WB, either.) Paul From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 28 02:38:54 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:38:54 -0500 Subject: Fleur/Viktor discussion References: <8tdd4d+am1v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FA3C3E.879BCA49@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4747 Hi -- Susan McGee wrote: > Anyways, in the end, Fleur thanks Harry for having saved her > sister's > > life and tells him and Ron that she wants to come back and " get a > > job `ere, to improve my Eenglish" (724). Ron's excited, Hermione's > > really not. > > That's strange. Why would Hermione care -- Harry is not interested in > Fleur and everyone knows that Hermione is not interested in Ron, Well, that's obvious, isn't it? She despises Fleur in a general feminist way -- she thinks Fleur uses her good looks to ease her way through life. I would bet that Hermione thinks Fleur is a bit vapid, dim, etc. She despises (resents?) the effect that Fleur has over any male who happens to cross her path. Hermione is disdainful of the entire BeauxBatons bunch when they arrive -- their lack of preparedness for the climate bothers her. She seems bothered by hero-worship of anyone -- and hero-worship is what both Krum and Fleur inspire. She thought Ron's initial reaction to Krum was ridiculous also (as ridiculous as the reactions of all the older Hogwarts girls who wanted his autograph, even in lipstick). And, even though Harry *seems* unaffected by Fleur's first appearance (when she asked for the bouillabaisse), Hermione tells them *both* to put their eyes back in. She looks furious when Fleur kisses *both* boys after the 2nd Task. And, yes, Kathy, I know all about your argument about the semicolon at the end: Fleur smiles at Ron; Hermione scowled. I agree --- the thoughts *are* connected. The English major can't argue with that! But, the evidence from the entire book suggests that her reaction has at least as much to do with her general dislike of Fleur and what she stands for in Hermione's mind as it does for fury because she's dared to smile at Ron. She might also be scowling because it's pretty obvious from Ron's "strangled" voice that Fleur has the same effect on him at the end of the year as she did at the beginning. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 28 02:47:57 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:47:57 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why did Moody wait? References: <8tdcnq+ml8p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FA3E5D.A1708EA7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4748 Susan McGee wrote: > Rita Skeeter seems to be very thick with the > Slytherins...is she a tool or ally of Lord Voldemort? Oh, she's thick with anyone and anything that'll give her grist for her mill. I think it's more like the Slytherins she was talking to are the sorts to love sowing the kind of discord she specializes in. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 28 03:19:28 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:19:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic, but you asked, was: Peter (& Disney) References: <8tca6a+5q5u@eGroups.com> <39F9E160.2B8BE8FD@texas.net> <020a01c04085$902bee00$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39FA45C0.79B42573@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4749 Denise Rogers wrote: > Amanda, Could you elaborate on the "changing history?" We do own Pocahontas, and I knew there was something not quite right about it... Okay. Sit down. Caveat--this is off the tops of my and my husband's heads; there's probably more. Pocohontas was about 12. John Smith was in his 40s. They had no romantic relationship. He was captured and was to be executed, his head was on the block and they were going to club him, and she interceded. Our accounts of this are all from John Smith's interpretation of events. I'm not even sure how well he spoke the language. There's varying interpretations. I've read theories that her tribe wanted an "in" with the white men, and used a formula ritual which he did not understand. This would have the whole "saving his life" thing being staged, and he was never in any danger (although, since he didn't know the ritual, he thought he was). There's similar rituals in other tribes--such "rebirths," where death is certain but avoided, make the "victim" a member of the tribe. Voila! We got us a white man. Or maybe she was just a spoiled 12-year-old whose doting dad gave in when she didn't want the cool-looking guy's head caved in. She didn't prevent a war or anything. She just really liked white man stuff, and chose to live their way. She married John Rolf, who was a planter, and went to England with him, and (I believe) died there. John Smith was a career soldier. Also, I find the scenery really distracting. The coastal zones of Virginia don't have great huge cliffs and waterfalls like that. I really expected more realism in the setting, from the usually detail-obsessed Disney people. And, off the subject, I thought it really stupid of them to show her picking up a bear cub, since that's a major league dumb thing to do and kids who have seen this, know nothing, and get taken to Yellowstone might get into some trouble. It also does the genuine culture and beliefs of the Indians, which were myriad and rich, no compliment to make them into New Age Circle-of-Lifers. The whole thing was just an exercise in preaching and political correctness. Which I don't like, but don't generally rail about, unless you totally misrepresent history to be preachy and politically correct. Like there's not perfectly good, accurate examples of tolerance and acceptance. > I noticed the CR version kept more to the tone of the true book, Am I mistaken? I thought Peter Pan was originally written as a play. > Someone mentioned back on Yahoo how they mutilated Mulan (And I still wish someone would post an URL, or something about that true story!). All I know about this is she supposedly spent ten years in the army, and she was taking the place of her brother. I think. Have you searched on Mu Lan? There's at least one kid's book out that I've seen. > Pocahontas is the acceptance of people, savages, despite their race. Nope, Pocohontas is showing how the Native Americans were morally superior to the empire-building, crude, insensitive, greedy, destructive, amoral white men. I find the contrast stark, when you look at something like the Johnny Appleseed segment of (oh, what's the title? I think it's Melody Time), where the settlers were portrayed as brave venturers into an unknown land full of danger. Civilizing the wilderness was a good thing, even as recently as what, forty years ago? You don't realize it until you're watching it and think, wow, they don't say that anymore. We apologize for existing, these days. > Even Little Mermaid is more darker than the Disney version, To put it mildly. The message of the original was to be content with your lot and station. She pays the ultimate price--she dies. > and I know the evil queen in Snow White didn't just fade away, she wore heated irons, and was forced to dance at SW's wedding. And what they did to Cinderella's stepmom and stepsisters! Ow. > I never knew the storyline for Hunchback. I know it's sugar coated, but at least I have something to go on. Everyone died. Esmeralda died. Quasimodo died. I think whatshisname, her love interest, died. Shakespearean in the die-offs. The original is a commentary on social injustice, and the deaths underscore the theme. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Oct 28 03:27:36 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:27:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Reactions? excerpt from the LA times interview/Ot/Peter Pan References: <20001027131158.26942.qmail@web1501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39FA47A8.F4FB437B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4750 Elizabeth wrote: > I have read the original books, > of Peter Pan, Mary Poppins, Bambi and the Hunchback of > Notre Dame. We've had to make a real effort to call the hunters in Bambi "bad hunters," to contrast with Dad, who is a "good hunter," and explain what responsible hunting is about. The Disney version totally missed the message of the book. Argh. It's a great book. But the animation is just so *good* we have the movie. --Amanda From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Oct 28 04:07:19 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:07:19 -0700 Subject: Ron and Hermione (was: Fleur/Viktor discussion) In-Reply-To: <8tdd4d+am1v@eGroups.com> References: <8tdask+105re@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001027210621.0291be60@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4751 At 02:19 AM 10/28/00 +0000, Susan McGee wrote: >... everyone knows that Hermione is not interested in Ron Um... We do??? -- Dave From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 05:58:25 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:58:25 -0500 Subject: Peter Pan, OT References: <8tca6a+5q5u@eGroups.com> <39F9E160.2B8BE8FD@texas.net> <020a01c04085$902bee00$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> <39FA45C0.79B42573@texas.net> Message-ID: <003a01c040a4$16bbe240$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4752 The book I read have it portrayed as a play. I like reading the "books" of plays, though! :) Dee > I noticed the CR version kept more to the tone of the true book, Am I mistaken? I thought Peter Pan was originally written as a play. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Oct 28 05:49:40 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:49:40 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Peter and Potter/Disney, maybe not so offtopic In-Reply-To: <8tddpr+lmm3@eGroups.com> References: <39F9E160.2B8BE8FD@texas.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001027210907.02915960@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4753 At 02:31 AM 10/28/00 +0000, Susan McGee wrote: >No, I haven't read the Poppins book, but didn't like the movie >as much as some (I loved the dancing and singing, but I didn't really >like the plot much). It's liked even less by those who read the books. >But have you watched Dumbo lately? I would no more allow my kids to >watch that then I would allow them to watch the Exorcist! Why not? Do you work for the Circus? I hope you're not going to say it's because of the crows... -- Dave From kathleen at carr.org Sat Oct 28 11:03:21 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 07:03:21 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fleur/Viktor discussion Message-ID: <200010281154.e9SBsvU22775@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 4754 >That's strange. Why would Hermione care -- Harry is not interested in >Fleur and everyone knows that Hermione is not interested in Ron, This WAS sarcasm right? Tell me this was sarcasm! Kathy From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 28 13:48:41 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 08:48:41 -0500 Subject: Fleur & R/H References: <200010281154.e9SBsvU22775@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <39FAD939.8E4AB95C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4755 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >That's strange. Why would Hermione care -- Harry is not interested in > > >Fleur and everyone knows that Hermione is not interested in Ron, > > > This WAS sarcasm right? Tell me this was sarcasm! Um . . . yes. Never fear -- I feel quite sure Susan was being sarcastic. I'm also quite sure it was directed largely at me, since I'm the person most vocally & most often making the argument that Hermione is not necessarily interested in Ron. That's okay -- I'm thick-skinned enough to weather a little sarcasm these days. I responded to her post with rational reasons why Hermione's reaction might indicate a more general dislike of Fleur as a person rather than a personal dislike of Fleur due to attentions bestowed on the ever-doting Ron. FYI -- I'm a lawyer, so I spent 3 yrs of my life being trained to make all sides of any argument, no matter how unpopular or implausible said arguments might be. If you only argued one side of an issue on an exam paper, you . . . .uh . . . wouldn't do too well in the grades. I still see R/H as being a superficial, surface-text reading of the books (and too obvious a course for JKR to chart), and I have made what I think are plausible, well-supported arguments why this might not be as obvious as some people think it is. If you don't agree, great! You're more than free to counter my arguments with support for your own position. But, don't be surprised if I come back with counter counter-arguments. :--) And, btw, there is a nice counter-argument to something I've argued all along, and I can't believe none of the R/H fans has ever mentioned it. But, hey, I'm not gonna make your points for you! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Sat Oct 28 13:51:50 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:51:50 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fleur & R/H Message-ID: <71.7e03cfb.272c33f6@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4756 I liked Hermione with Viktor. I am hoping he comes back to the school via his invitation, as well. Fleur, well, like H, I won't be disappointed if she doesn't show up again. ~shahara From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Sat Oct 28 13:59:08 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 09:59:08 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why did Moody wait? Message-ID: <66.8b5bf7a.272c35ac@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4757 This would account for Harry's mother coming out of the wand last...someone else used V's wand to kill James, and make it look like V did it. << But there's something about Harry. I think Voldemort went to Godric's Hollow that night to kill Harry and not Lily and James. :-)Milz >> From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Sat Oct 28 14:16:48 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:16:48 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scholastic Screen Saver Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4758 Sorry if this is old news...but Scholastic.com is offering a download of a free screen saver of the HP books. Some other neat stuff too. Harry Potter: Screen Saver http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/screensaver/index.htm ~shahara Shahara LeFay Pagan Priestess Vegetarian Homeschoolers Radical Momma of 5 TerraSoLuna From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Oct 28 16:28:10 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:28:10 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] NPR Interview & HP Merchandise Stuff References: <8tdef8+k945@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FAFE9A.754D88EF@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4759 smitster wrote: > I learned from this report that the New York Times had HP related > article on 1 January 2000. It was in their what-will-life-be-like-in- > 2020 (or some such date) fictional version of the front page. I'm > going to head to the library tomorrow to see if I can get this, but > it sounded rather funny. The headline was something like Quidditch > World Cup Won By Woman. Serves me right for being on holiday at that > time of year! If I find it, I'll transcribe it. > I have this - I also have their 2020 version of the Best Sellers list - will try to type them up over the week (or scan them in) - I know Penny especially will LOVE the booklist! From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 18:47:04 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:47:04 -0000 Subject: John Cleese signed for Nick Message-ID: <8tf6v8+j4kd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4760 Variety is reporting that John Cleese has signed to play Nearly Headless Nick (Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Poppington) in the Harry Potter movie. Cleese will turn 61 this Friday. IMO Cleese will make the perfect Nick. From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 19:30:53 2000 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:30:53 -0000 Subject: the "Muggle" lawsuit In-Reply-To: <39F72E4F.DA7890@texas.net> Message-ID: <8tf9hd+abe8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4761 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: "Can somebody either fill me in on this, or point me to where I can see what went on? Apparently this little-known wannabe happened to think of the term "Muggle" as well, and says JKR can't use it? If none of her books are in print, where does she think JKR could have seen it? Is this the essence of it? And was this loon harassing web groups?" > > --Amanda Nancy Stouffer wrote a children's book called "The Legend of Rah and Muggles". It was distributed in some Rite Aid drugstores and grocery stores in the Northeast. She sued JK Rowling for infringement of the name "muggles", and because, Stouffer says, she had a character named "Larry Potter" and "Lilly Potter". This is a direct quote from her complaint: ========================================= Stouffer filed trademark applications in the United States Patent and Trademark Office on February 22, 2000, for the mark MUGGLE in onnection with decorative magnets in International Class 9; ornamental novelty buttons in International Class 26; and playthings, namely dolls; novelty toys, namely "worry stones" in International Class 28 and for the mark MUGGLES in connection with printed materials, namely a series of children's fiction books, storybooks, coloring books, activity books, and sticker books in International Class 16 and with pre-recorded audio-cassette tapes in International Class 9. As stated in the trademark applications, Stouffer began using her trademarks on all of these goods "at least as early as 1987." See Exhibits 7 and 8. ================================================= I'm sure you noticed that Stouffer didn't file for her trademark until after the Harry Potter books were on the shelves. this isn't necessarily fatal, though. The muggles in Stouffer's book are little potato-headed creatures that take care of other creatures in a post-nuclear holocaust world. Stouffer has at least contacted Jenna of the Unofficial Harry Potter Fan Club site about using the word "muggle". Jenna's site (http://www.harrypotterfans.net) has a lot of information on the suit, including the complaint I quoted from above, a link to Stouffer's site, and an interesting area called "muggle sightings" full of prior use of terms like muggle. This case is really weak. It leaves the impression Ms. Stouffer is looking for Scholastic and Rowling to "buy their peace" (a genuine legal term), but I think there's more. This is the chance for Ms. Stouffer's fifteen minutes of fame that the merits of her work are unlikely to provide. I get the notion Ms. Stouffer can't wait for the interviews she'll give on the courthouse steps and for her role as an aggrieved "little person". I know an intellectual property lawyer who tells me that one reason that moving the case to New York is a defeat for Stouffer is that the US District Court for the Southern District of New York is sophisticated about this type of case and not likely to be impressed with Ms. Stouffer's claims. this kind of thing goes on all the time with successful works. Rowling should not spend five minutes worrying about it. Let the lawyers handle it. From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Sat Oct 28 19:47:35 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:47:35 +0100 Subject: English Pronunications (OT, sorry :) In-Reply-To: <39FAFE9A.754D88EF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4762 Hi all. I remember that, at one point back on Yahoo, someone sent in an amusing thing about how English pronunciation is really weird. Like "He laughed at the tough plough in the trough" and things like that. Can someone point me to either (a) the author or (b) the list? I'm looking for it for a Linguistics class. Cheers, --John ======================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com When I am an Evil Overlord...#5 The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness. ======================================== From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 20:48:42 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 13:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bambi/Hunting (formerly Peter Pan) Message-ID: <20001028204842.2287.qmail@web1505.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4763 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Elizabeth wrote: > > > I have read the original books, > > of Peter Pan, Mary Poppins, Bambi and the > Hunchback of > > Notre Dame. > > We've had to make a real effort to call the hunters > in Bambi "bad hunters," > to contrast with Dad, who is a "good hunter," and > explain what responsible > hunting is about. The Disney version totally missed > the message of the book. > Argh. It's a great book. But the animation is just > so *good* we have the > movie. > > --Amanda I totally agree with you. When my son is old enough (only 2 yrs old now) I will let him watch the movie (hopefully he will also read the book) and I will do the same thing as far as explaining responsible hunting. ===== Elizabeth (Rhiannon8404) ****************************** She is like a cat in the dark And then she is the darkness. ****************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com Sat Oct 28 21:42:18 2000 From: rhiannon8404 at yahoo.com (Elizabeth) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Peter and Potter/Disney, maybe not so offtopic Message-ID: <20001028214218.17021.qmail@web1503.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4764 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > No, I haven't read the Poppins book, but didn't > like the movie as much as some (I loved the dancing > and singing, but I didn't really like the plot much). > > It's liked even less by those who read the books. > > But have you watched Dumbo lately? I would no more > allow my kids to watch that then I would allow them > to watch the Exorcist! > > >Why not? Do you work for the Circus? I hope you're > >not going to say > >it's because of the crows... > -- > Dave Not Susan, but I agree with her. I don't like "Dumbo" or the circus in in general because of the way the animals are treated. It's horrible, just horrible. I have seen footage from training sessions where animal are beaten, electrocuted, cut with razors attached to long sticks. All for the "entertainment" of us. Suposedly it doesn't happen anymore...but even though the treatment of animals has improved, I still don't think they are treated with the care and respect the deserve. I will never take my child or any child to the circus. ===== Elizabeth (Rhiannon8404) ****************************** She is like a cat in the dark And then she is the darkness. ****************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Sat Oct 28 21:19:55 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:19:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bambi/Hunting (formerly Peter Pan) References: <20001028204842.2287.qmail@web1505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201c04124$d2e931e0$934e01d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4765 ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth To: Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bambi/Hunting (formerly Peter Pan) > > --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Elizabeth wrote: > > > > > I have read the original books, > > > of Peter Pan, Mary Poppins, Bambi and the > > Hunchback of > > > Notre Dame. > > > > We've had to make a real effort to call the hunters > > in Bambi "bad hunters," > > to contrast with Dad, who is a "good hunter," and > > explain what responsible > > hunting is about. The Disney version totally missed > > the message of the book. > > Argh. It's a great book. But the animation is just > > so *good* we have the > > movie. > > > > --Amanda > > I totally agree with you. When my son is old enough > (only 2 yrs old now) I will let him watch the movie > (hopefully he will also read the book) and I will do > the same thing as far as explaining responsible > hunting. Oh crikey - I finally watched this film aged 22 and worried my entire family by bursting into copious floods of tears on Christmas Day. When they enquired what was wrong, I answered 'They've killed Bambi's mother, wah!' Alix From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Oct 28 21:58:00 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:58:00 -0000 Subject: HP TOUR In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8tfi58+7pga@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4766 Hi all Just got back from a Coach trip to EuroDisney, so have been reading the last few days mail. NEW GROUP CREATED - HPTour http://www.egroups.com/group/HPTour As a Tour sounds good to me too, and because I think that if discussions about it were on the main list things might start getting complex - I have created a separate UNLISTED eGroup for HPTour discussions, hope that is OK by all. If you are interested in helping organise the tour, please become a member of the list - In particular any Travel Agents, Airport Employeees, UK Coach company employees etc. Will need volunteers to coordinate things in each country, with UK probably needing several of us! For those who are not interested in helping, but who are interested in knowing latest progress... please also join. I also propose that progress reports are written for posting on the main list every now and then to keep everyone updated - and to ask everyone questions, for example regarding locations to visit (personally, I think Jo's childhood home is worthwhile - including a quick tour of Chepstow castle). Having been on a coach trip to Paris - I know that a coach trip can work quite well, so maybe we could hire a coach (with 2 drivers) and use that to tour the UK. > I'm currently studying at St Andrews University and would be happy to show folks around Scotland: Skye, the Highlands, Dundee (home of Sirius Black and officially the Greyest Town in the UK) etc. Well volunteered John. I hoped someone would know Scotland, as I've only been there once and that was when I was 13-years-old. Neil could you do London? Then perhaps I could do Chepstow and act as tour coordinator (oh no... big role, anyone else wants to volunteer?) >I'm also very familiar with Somerset, the Lake District and Cornwall. John, you're hired again for Somerset & Cornwall - do you know Deven as well? Not sure if Lake District will be needed. > As far as flights go, I'd be more than willing to go enquire at the > University Travel Service here in StAs (bookable by phone and internet, BTW...). Sounds a good idea... if anyone does work for an airline, then perhaps a slightly more than Group Discount could be obtained. > As an example, they got me a fare for GBP 212 round trip > Edinburgh-NY at Xmas. Alternatively, I'm very fond of Expedia.com. Not bad John... my tickets to Chicago are costing far more than that - though Work is paying for them, so do I care - no. > If anyone wants fare tips from someone who's been flying NY-UK for the last 7 years, don't hesitate to shout! John... is it cheaper to fly NY to Edinburgh, or NY to London? No reason why a tour could not officially start in Edinburgh - though it may mean some of us in London area would be spending an overnight trip on coach! > Question -- has anyone thought how to get about the UK? >Perhaps renting a coach That I feel would be best, as then we have almost full control. The only limitations will be regarding rest breaks for the drivers and finding a coach company prepared to do it! ---------------------- Nearly Headless Nick Deathday 31 st October From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Oct 28 22:23:17 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 17:23:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR References: <8tfi58+7pga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FB51D4.9C6BDEA0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4767 Hi -- nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > regarding locations to visit (personally, I think Jo's > childhood home is worthwhile - including a quick tour of Chepstow > castle). I would definitely think those stops should be included (Bristol, Chipping Sodbury, etc.). We could even look for Godric's Hollow!!! :--) I assume the Exeter area also included. > That I feel would be best, as then we have almost full control. The > only limitations will be regarding rest breaks for the drivers and > finding a coach company prepared to do it! And a coach company prepared to paint their bus bright purple & emblazon the "Knight Bus" across the side?!! Sounds like so much fun! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Sat Oct 28 22:54:13 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 23:54:13 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR References: <8tfi58+7pga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006a01c04131$fef13f00$934e01d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4768 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 10:58 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR > Hi all > > Just got back from a Coach trip to EuroDisney, so have been reading > the last few days mail. > > NEW GROUP CREATED - HPTour > http://www.egroups.com/group/HPTour > > As a Tour sounds good to me too, and because I think that if > discussions about it were on the main list things might start getting > complex - I have created a separate UNLISTED eGroup for HPTour > discussions, hope that is OK by all. > > I'm currently studying at St Andrews University and would be happy > to show folks around Scotland: Skye, the Highlands, Dundee (home of > Sirius Black and officially the Greyest Town in the UK) etc. By the by, how do we know Sirius is definitely from Scotland - have I missed something? I know Cassie is working in bagpipes into his wedding over in the PoU list, but I wasn't 100% sure he was Scottish. Anyway, more than happy to show fellow listees round Edinburgh... > >I'm also very familiar with Somerset, the Lake District and Cornwall. > > John, you're hired again for Somerset & Cornwall - do you know Deven > as well? Not sure if Lake District will be needed. Well, I know Exeter very well - and I know there are some listees that are definitely Exeter alumni - so I think a visit to the Double Locks maybe inevitable - maybe we'll bump into a Weasley or two. Alix From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Sat Oct 28 23:03:01 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:03:01 +0100 Subject: HP Tour In-Reply-To: <8tfi58+7pga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4769 (Note: this email is going to both HPTour and HPFG as I'm sure not everyone's on the former yet.) >> I'm currently studying at St Andrews University and would be happy > to show folks around Scotland: Skye, the Highlands, Dundee (home of > Sirius Black and officially the Greyest Town in the UK) etc. > > Well volunteered John. I hoped someone would know Scotland, as I've > only been there once and that was when I was 13-years-old. >> I'm also very familiar with Somerset, the Lake District and Cornwall. > > John, you're hired again for Somerset & Cornwall - do you know Deven > as well? Not sure if Lake District will be needed. Yep, I can do Devon. Went to prep. school there. But the Lakes are GORGEOUS -- and I know the bits that aren't spoiled by tourists ::vbeg:: > John... is it cheaper to fly NY to Edinburgh, or NY to London? > No reason why a tour could not officially start in Edinburgh - though > it may mean some of us in London area would be spending an overnight > trip on coach! ::grin:: Depends. I know that BA do a deal where, if you buy a transatlantic fare, you get a really cheap inter-UK fare thrown in. Alternatively, there really isn't anything wrong with easyJet from Luton airport -- I took them last weekend and was REALLY impressed with both the airline, airport and travel links. Penny said, > I would definitely think those stops should be included (Bristol, > Chipping Sodbury, etc.). We could even look for Godric's Hollow!!! > :--) I assume the Exeter area also included. I've started a suggestion box on the HPTour group, so feel free to put in as many stop suggestions as possible! >> Question -- has anyone thought how to get about the UK? >> Perhaps renting a coach > > That I feel would be best, as then we have almost full control. The > only limitations will be regarding rest breaks for the drivers and > finding a coach company prepared to do it! > And a coach company prepared to paint their bus bright purple & emblazon > the "Knight Bus" across the side?!! Actually, we *could* get some kind of magnetic sticker to stick on the side of the bus...alternatively we could use window decals. I can't wait! Nick, you might want to put up a time of year poll -- with multiple check options. Cheers, --John From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Sat Oct 28 23:08:46 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:08:46 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR References: <8tfi58+7pga@eGroups.com> <006a01c04131$fef13f00$934e01d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <004501c04134$06d374c0$6a67883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4770 > Well, I know Exeter very well - and I know there are some listees that are > definitely Exeter alumni - so I think a visit to the Double Locks maybe > inevitable - maybe we'll bump into a Weasley or two. I'm Exeter alumni and I'm happy to show off both the campus (must find out which hall of residence JKR lived in) and the area, although I must add I'm not the most organised of people. Alix as far as I'm concerned a visit to the Double Locks would be a prerequisite. Mind you we may have trouble finding a coach driver who is happy to drive across the bridge . (For those who have not been fortunate enough to visit this truly fantastic pub. It is set by a double lock just outside Exeter. It can be reached either on foot, by boat or by driving along the tow path and over a very narrow bridge. My metro sailed over it but we had a little more trouble with the student minibus. Heather, who thinks a fantastic idea especiall as she would not have to find any airfare. From warmsley at btinternet.com Sat Oct 28 23:09:31 2000 From: warmsley at btinternet.com (Warmsley) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:09:31 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR Message-ID: <01c04134$211c9500$991c7bd5@warmsley> No: HPFGUIDX 4771 Article about censorship with some stuff about HP in it : http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/features/2000/schultz2.ht ml Jeremy From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 00:43:52 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:43:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] English Pronunications (OT, sorry :) References: Message-ID: <001e01c04141$87efe720$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4772 Hi. I was the poster, but I cannot recall the exact number anymore and I have erased my computer's (wrote zeros) harddrive since, hence a lack of storing it. It should be on the archived list, though? Perhaps a "FAQ" er can help further? :) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: John Walton To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 2:47 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] English Pronunications (OT, sorry :) Hi all. I remember that, at one point back on Yahoo, someone sent in an amusing thing about how English pronunciation is really weird. Like "He laughed at the tough plough in the trough" and things like that. Can someone point me to either (a) the author or (b) the list? I'm looking for it for a Linguistics class. Cheers, --John ======================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com When I am an Evil Overlord...#5 The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness. ======================================== eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Sat Oct 28 23:43:42 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:43:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR References: <8tfi58+7pga@eGroups.com> <006a01c04131$fef13f00$934e01d5@oemcomputer> <004501c04134$06d374c0$6a67883e@default> Message-ID: <009901c04138$e8717ea0$934e01d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4773 ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Edmonds To: Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR > > > Well, I know Exeter very well - and I know there are some listees that are > > definitely Exeter alumni - so I think a visit to the Double Locks maybe > > inevitable - maybe we'll bump into a Weasley or two. > > I'm Exeter alumni and I'm happy to show off both the campus (must find out > which hall of residence JKR lived in) and the area, although I must add I'm > not the most organised of people. Alix as far as I'm concerned a visit to > the Double Locks would be a prerequisite. Mind you we may have trouble > finding a coach driver who is happy to drive across the bridge . (For > those who have not been fortunate enough to visit this truly fantastic pub. > It is set by a double lock just outside Exeter. It can be reached either on > foot, by boat or by driving along the tow path and over a very narrow > bridge. My metro sailed over it but we had a little more trouble with the > student minibus. Ah, another metro driver! Well, as the coach won't make it, we can always take the canoes, and pretend that we're going across the lake with Hagrid... Alix From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 00:50:21 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:50:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Dumbo References: <20001028214218.17021.qmail@web1503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002201c04142$37df4540$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4774 I also do not like Dumbo--that'll be one of the last movies I obtain for Ian. The way the adults treat the newborn elephant I find very distaste, just because he has a birth-defect. Perhaps I am a bit closer to the disturbance--my brother was born with Spina Bifeda, and we fought long and hard to make him normal (now he's a normal 21 year old to be, but that's another OT matter--why are all the men I meet in person idiots? Even those related to me...) I too was teased an awful lot growing up. I guess it's like Snape and Neville, or any of his other students. A grownup shouldn't be raised as a role model (Oh, you should respect and listen to this person) if they aren't suitable to the role. It doesn't matter who/what that person does. Children have enough esteem problems nowadays (or at least more documented) without Disney movies adding to it. He'll get to watch it when he's a bit older, and I can make him understand it more. That's not to speak of the child-alcohol issue as well! That's a hot subject on my mind that I shan't go into here! (Pink elephants indeed...) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Elizabeth To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Peter and Potter/Disney, maybe not so offtopic Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > No, I haven't read the Poppins book, but didn't > like the movie as much as some (I loved the dancing > and singing, but I didn't really like the plot much). > > It's liked even less by those who read the books. > > But have you watched Dumbo lately? I would no more > allow my kids to watch that then I would allow them > to watch the Exorcist! > > >Why not? Do you work for the Circus? I hope you're > >not going to say > >it's because of the crows... > -- > Dave Not Susan, but I agree with her. I don't like "Dumbo" or the circus in in general because of the way the animals are treated. It's horrible, just horrible. I have seen footage from training sessions where animal are beaten, electrocuted, cut with razors attached to long sticks. All for the "entertainment" of us. Suposedly it doesn't happen anymore...but even though the treatment of animals has improved, I still don't think they are treated with the care and respect the deserve. I will never take my child or any child to the circus. ===== Elizabeth (Rhiannon8404) ****************************** She is like a cat in the dark And then she is the darkness. ****************************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Sun Oct 29 00:07:36 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:07:36 +0100 Subject: Chipping Sodbury/Dursley In-Reply-To: <39FB51D4.9C6BDEA0@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4775 > I would definitely think those stops should be included (Bristol, > Chipping Sodbury, etc.). We could even look for Godric's Hollow!!! > :--) I assume the Exeter area also included. Today's Interesting Fact -- the town of Chipping Sodbury is only a few miles south of another town called Dursley. Go to www.streetmap.co.uk and see for yourself! --John ======================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com When I am an Evil Overlord...#169 If I have massive computer systems, I will take at least as many precautions as a small business and include things such as virus-scans and firewalls. ======================================== From lrcjestes at msn.com Sun Oct 29 00:21:52 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:21:52 -0400 Subject: Sirius in Scotland References: <8tfi58+7pga@eGroups.com> <006a01c04131$fef13f00$934e01d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <006101c0413e$3d7aa700$acaf20cc@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4776 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alix Petty" To: Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR > By the by, how do we know Sirius is definitely from Scotland - have I missed > something? I know Cassie is working in bagpipes into his wedding over in > the PoU list, but I wasn't 100% sure he was Scottish. Anyway, more than > happy to show fellow listees round Edinburgh... > I think Penny and I started that rumor in ASA. I think I may have influenced Cassie in that regard (and she can correct me if I'm wrong on that and just being vain). According to Penny (I have not heard the audio tapes) Jim Dale gives Sirius a bit of a Scotish brogue? So we ran with it and gave him a complete Scottish upbringing in order to have something in common with our Cordelia who has spent a lot of time there on her grandparents farm. Its all pure conjecture, but we liked it and it seems to have stuck. I'd still like to keep Scotland in the tour though. carole From ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 00:40:25 2000 From: ReinaKata02 at yahoo.com (Kaitlin ) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:40:25 -0000 Subject: AB? (was Re: Fleur/Viktor discussion) In-Reply-To: <8tdd4d+am1v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tfrlp+41n1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4777 Susan wrote: >so that everyone would know how he had hoodwinked AB and defeated HP. Who's AB? Should it be AD (Albus Dumbledore) or AM (Alastor Moody)? Just curious. ~Kaitlin From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Sun Oct 29 00:43:19 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:43:19 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius in Scotland In-Reply-To: <006101c0413e$3d7aa700$acaf20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4778 > I'd still like to keep Scotland in the tour though. > > carole Perfectly legit, since both JKR and Hogwarts are in Scotland :) --John ===================================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com ICQ: 96203920 ===================================================== From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 01:46:59 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:46:59 -0000 Subject: HP TOUR In-Reply-To: <39FB51D4.9C6BDEA0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tfvij+prqm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4779 Hi everyone! I've rather been lurking this week but I HAD to comment on this. I love the idea of a HP tour, and I wouldn't dare underestimate this group. I know we could do it! However for those of you that don't know, I'm not exactly an adult (just 16) and I don't know that my mother would let be romp around Britain with a bunch of people I've never "met". > > And a coach company prepared to paint their bus bright purple & emblazon > the "Knight Bus" across the side?!! > Penny I wonder though if we couldn't rent an already purple bus and maybe just temporarly paste on it "The Knight Bus"?? Anyway I think it would be GREAT. Besides the settings of the books what about film locations? We would HAVE to go to Oxford, and Simon could show us around. Somebody mentioned this I believe, but would JKR really meet w/ us? If so, well, I'm excited just thinking about it. Scott From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 01:55:50 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:55:50 -0000 Subject: English Pronunications (OT, sorry :) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8tg036+a21c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4780 I seem to recall reading it in a Spider Robinson book (Callahan's Legacy, I think); he attributed it to Heinlein. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > Hi all. I remember that, at one point back on Yahoo, someone sent in an > amusing thing about how English pronunciation is really weird. Like "He > laughed at the tough plough in the trough" and things like that. > > Can someone point me to either (a) the author or (b) the list? I'm looking > for it for a Linguistics class. > > Cheers, > > --John > > ======================================== > John Walton JohnWalton at b... > > When I am an Evil Overlord...#5 > The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the > Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of > Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object > which is my one weakness. > ======================================== From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 02:19:14 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 02:19:14 -0000 Subject: Peter, Potter, and Poppins Message-ID: <8tg1f2+sdmj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4781 PETER: It's never been one of my favourite movies, or stories, though I thought the A&E version w/ Cathy Rigby was alright. I don't know PP never impressed me as a young child POTTER: Ok, you guys already know that I love HP, (I mean its obvious) but I agree w/ JKR in that I don't like it's comparison w/ PP. POPPINS: One of my favourite movies of all time. I've always LOVED the story, and the songs...supercalifragilisticexpialidocius (sp?)...anyhow when I read the book I found it disenchanting. Mary Poppins wasn't nearly as (groping for word) friendly(?) she WAS too pompous(?) Hmmm... Scott From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 29 02:51:40 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:51:40 -0500 Subject: Off-Topic! Odd Translations Message-ID: <39FB90BB.5E44ABE7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4782 Apologies for the off-topicness. In searching for the hard-to-pronounce English thing for John Walton, I found a couple of things that I thought you guys would appreciate (for some reason, I think Aberforth's Goat, especially). I don't have all of your individual emails in my address book. This is one of three. --Amanda Subject: joke: language 1. The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought to their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" 2. Coors put its slogan, "Turn It Loose," into Spanish, where it was read as "Suffer From Diarrhea." 3. Scandinavian vacuum manufacturer Electrolux used the following in an American campaign: "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." 4. Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick," a curling iron, into Germany only to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people had use for the "Manure Stick." 5. When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later they learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the labels of what's inside, since many people can't read. 6. Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a notorious porno magazine. 7. An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I Saw the Pope" (el Papa), the shirts read "I Saw the Potato" (la papa). 8. Pepsi's "Come Alive With the Pepsi Generation" translated into "Pepsi brings Your Ancestors Back From the Grave" in Chinese. 9. The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth." 10. Frank Perdue's chicken slogan, "It takes a strong man to make a tender chicken" was translated into Spanish as "it takes an aroused man to make a chicken affectionate." 11. When Parker Pen marketed a ball-point pen in Mexico, its ads were supposed to have read, "It won't leak in your pocket and embarrass you. "The company thought that the word "embarazar" (to impregnate pregnate) meant to embarrass, so the ad read: "It won't leak in your pocket and make you pregnant" 12. When American Airlines wanted to advertise its new leather first class seats in the Mexican market, it translated its "Fly In Leather" campaign literally, which meant "Fly Naked" (vuela en cuero) in Spanish. Add a classic. JFK, in his speech before the Germans at the "Wall". "Ich bin ein Berliner!" Literally translated, it means, "I am a jelly doughnut!" From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 29 02:52:59 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:52:59 -0500 Subject: Off-Topic #2: [Fwd: Literature Abuse: is this you?] Message-ID: <39FB910B.5E7883ED@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4783 Okay, here's the second. We seem to have such a group of well-read readers and talented writers, I thought you'd like this. --Amanda LITERATURE ABUSE: AMERICA'S HIDDEN PROBLEM Once a relatively rare disorder, Literature Abuse, or LA, has risen to new levels due to the accessibility of higher education and increased college enrollment since the end of the Second World War. The number of literature abusers is currently at record levels. SOCIAL COSTS OF LITERARY ABUSE Abusers become withdrawn, uninterested in society or normal relationships. They fantasize, creating alternative worlds to occupy, to the neglect of friends and family. In severe cases they develop bad posture from reading in awkward positions or carrying heavy book bags. In the worst instances, they become cranky reference librarians in small towns. Excessive reading during pregnancy is perhaps the number one cause of moral deformity among the children of English professors, teachers of English and creative writing. Known as Fetal Fiction Syndrome, this disease also leaves its victims prone to a lifetime of nearsightedness, daydreaming and emotional instability. HEREDITY It has been established that heredity plays a considerable role in determining whether a person will become an abuser of literature. Most abusers have at least one parent who abused literature, often beginning at an early age and progressing into adulthood. Many spouses of an abuser become abusers themselves. OTHER PREDISPOSING FACTORS Fathers or mothers who are English teachers, professors, or heavy fiction readers; parents who do not encourage children to play games, participate in healthy sports, or watch television in the evening. PREVENTION Premarital screening and counseling, referral to adoption agencies in order to break the chain of abuse. English teachers in particular should seek partners active in other fields. Children should be encouraged to seek physical activity, and to avoid isolation and morbid introspection. Self-test for literature abuse How many of these apply to you? 1. I have read fiction when I was depressed, or to cheer myself up. 2. I have gone on reading binges of an entire book or more in a day. 3. I read rapidly, often 'gulping' chapters. 4. I have sometimes read early in the morning, or before work. 5. I have hidden books in different places to sneak a chapter without being seen. 6. Sometimes I avoid friends or family obligations in order to read novels. 7. Sometimes I rewrite film or television dialog as the characters speak. 8. I am unable to enjoy myself with others unless there is a book nearby. 9. At a party, I will often slip off unnoticed to read. 10. Reading has made me seek haunts and companions which I would otherwise avoid. 11. I have neglected personal hygiene or household chores until I had finished a novel. 12. I have spent money meant for necessities on books instead. 13. I have attempted to check out more library books than permitted. 14. Most of my friends are heavy fiction readers. 15. I have sometimes passed out from a night of heavy reading. 16. I have suffered 'blackouts' or memory loss from a bout of reading. 17. I have wept, become angry or irrational because of something I read. 18. I have sometimes wished I did not read so much. 19. Sometimes I think my fiction reading is out of control. If you answered 'yes' to three or more of these questions, you may be a literature abuser. Affirmative responses to five or more indicates a serious problem. DECLINE AND FALL: THE ENGLISH MAJOR Within the sordid world of literature abuse, the lowest circle belongs to those sufferers who have thrown their lives and hopes away to study literature in our colleges. Parents should look for signs that their children are taking the wrong path-don't expect your teenager to approach you and say, 'I can't stop reading Spencer.' By the time you visit her dorm room and find the secret stash of the Paris Review, it may already be too late. What to do if you suspect your child is becoming an English major: 1. Talk to your child in a loving way. Show your concern. Let her know you won't abandon her-but that you aren't spending a hundred grand to put her through Stanford so she can clerk at Waldenbooks, either. But remember that she may not be able to make a decision without help; perhaps she has just finished Madame Bovary and is dying of arsenic poisoning. 2. Face the issue: Tell her what you know, and how: 'I found this book in your purse. How long has this been going on?' Ask the hard question-Who is this Count Vronsky?' 3. Show her another way. Move the television set into her room. Praise her brother, the engineer. Introduce her to frat boys. 4. Do what you have to do. Tear up her library card. Make her stop signing her letters as 'Emma.' Force her to take a math class, or minor in Spanish. Transfer her to a Florida college. You may be dealing with a life-threatening problem if one or more of the following applies: * She can tell you how and when Thomas Chatterton died. * She names one or more of her cats after a Romantic poet. * Next to her bed is a picture of: Lord Byron, Virginia Woolf, Faulkner, or any scene from the Lake District. From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 29 02:55:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 21:55:39 -0500 Subject: Off-Topic #3: [Fwd: Humor for the Writing Group] Message-ID: <39FB91AB.BCE9C977@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4784 And the last one. I'll be good now and stay on topic. --Amanda I think the first runner-up should have won. ---------------------- Forwarded by Greg B. Jones/USA/BAC on 11/16/99 09:30 AM --------------------------- readers were asked to combine the works of two authors and provide a suitable blurb. Second Runner-Up: "Machiavelli's The Little Prince"-Antoine de Saint-Exupery's classic children's tale as presented by Machiavelli. The whimsy of human nature is embodied in many delightful and intriguing characters, all of whom are executed. (Erik Anderson, Tempe, Ariz.) First Runner-Up: "Green Eggs and Hamlet"- Would you kill him in his bed? Thrust a dagger through his head? I would not, could not, kill the King. I could not do that evil thing. I would not wed this girl, you see. Now get her to a nunnery. (Robin Parry, Arlington) And the Winner of the Dancing Critter: "Fahrenheit 451 of the Vanities"-An '80s yuppie is denied books. He does not object, or even notice. (Mike Long, Burke) Honorable Mentions: "Where's Walden?"-Alas, the challenge of locating Henry David Thoreau in each richly detailed drawing loses its appeal when it quickly becomes clear that he is always in the woods. (Sandra Hull, Arlington) "Catch-22 in the Rye"-Holden learns that if you're insane, you'll probably flunk out of prep school, but if you're flunking out of prep school, you're probably not insane. (Brendan Beary, Great Mills) "2001: A Space Iliad"-The Hal 9000 computer wages an insane 10-year war against the Greeks after falling victim to the Y2K bug. (Joseph Romm,Washington) "Rikki-Kon-Tiki-Tavi"-Thor Heyerdahl recounts his attempt to prove Rudyard Kipling's theory that the mongoose first came to India on a raft from Polynesia. (David Laughton, Washington) "The Maltese Faulkner"-Is the black bird a tortured symbol of Sam's struggles with race and family? Does it signify his decay of soul along with the soul of the Old South? Is it merely a crow, mocking his attempts to understand? Or is it worth a cool mil? (Thad Humphries, Warrenton) "Tarzan of the Grapes"-The beleaguered Okies of the dust bowl are saved by a strong and brave savage who swings from grapevine to grapevine. (Joseph Romm, Washington) "Curious Georgefather"-The monkey finally sticks his nose where it don't belong. (Chuck Smith, Woodbridge) "The Hunchback Also Rises"-Hideously deformed fellow is cloistered in bell tower by despicable clergymen. And that's the good news ... (John Verba, Washington) "The Silence of the Hams"-In this endearing update of the Seuss classic, young Sam-I-Am presses unconventional foodstuffs on his friend, Hannibal, who turns the tables. (Mark Eckenwiler, Washington) "Portnoy's Choice": A man is forced to choose between his right and left hand. (Tom Witte, Gaithersburg) "Jane Eyre Jordan": Plucky English orphan girl survives hardships to lead the Chicago Bulls to the NBA championship. (Dave Pickering, Bowie) "Nicholas and Alexandra Nickleby"-Having narrowly escaped a Bolshevik firing squad, the former czar and czarina join a troupe of actors only to find that playing the Palace isn't as grand as living in it. (Sandra Hull, Arlington) "Looking for Mr. Godot"-A young woman waits for Mr. Right to enter her life. She has a looong wait. (Jonathan Paul, Garrett Park) From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 29 03:01:01 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:01:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR References: <8tfvij+prqm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FB92ED.5A3C0428@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4785 Scott wrote: > However for those of you that don't > know, I'm not exactly an adult (just 16) and I don't know that my > mother would let be romp around Britain with a bunch of people I've > never "met". Bring her. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 29 03:06:35 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 22:06:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Bambi/Hunting (formerly Peter Pan) References: <20001028204842.2287.qmail@web1505.mail.yahoo.com> <002201c04124$d2e931e0$934e01d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <39FB943B.19F439DC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4786 Alix Petty wrote: > Oh crikey - I finally watched this film aged 22 and worried my entire family > by bursting into copious floods of tears on Christmas Day. When they > enquired what was wrong, I answered 'They've killed Bambi's mother, wah!' Actually, I feel very emotionally manipulated by that whole scenario, because Bambi stays the same size, with the same markings, for months and months. They're eating new spring grass when she's shot, for Pete's sake, and Bambi was born the previous spring, and here's this tiny fawn with spots still. Jeez. He'd be at least eight months old, probably older, almost her size, and well along with losing his spots (if any were left, in fact). But they left him teeny for the emotional impact. Then boom, he grows up and has antlers. A couple months later, it's full-blown Spring, and here's this buck where the little spotted fawn was. In the book, there's a gap of a couple of years, but given Thumper and Flower, and their inexperience with females and such, it has to be the next year. Boy, those deer grow up fast. Rrrrrr. --Amanda From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Oct 29 03:36:23 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 20:36:23 -0700 Subject: OT: Dumbo (was: Peter and Potter/Disney, maybe not so offtopic) In-Reply-To: <20001028214218.17021.qmail@web1503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001028203141.02612350@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4787 At 02:42 PM 10/28/00 -0700, Elizabeth wrote: >I don't like "Dumbo" or the circus in in general >because of the way the animals are treated. It's >horrible, just horrible. I have seen footage from >training sessions where animal are beaten, >electrocuted, cut with razors attached to long sticks. >All for the "entertainment" of us. But the whole point of Dumbo is that he overcomes the cruelity he's subjected to. Obviously there's none of the atrocities you describe because it would be too upsetting to children, but Disney is hardly complementary to the circus -- he's *protesting* the attitude that "Elephants ain't got no feelings...They're made of rubber". -- Dave From oalburquerque at hotmail.com Sun Oct 29 04:25:46 2000 From: oalburquerque at hotmail.com (Odile Alburquerque) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:25:46 -0000 Subject: Fleur/Viktor discussion In-Reply-To: <8tdd4d+am1v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tg8sa+4enr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4788 Ever since the time i started the harry potter series, ever since book 1, i had gotten this feeling that Hermione and Ron could end up with some kind of a fling, since they seem to have all this friction between them. they dont talk to each other simply because of harry, i think. :) odile --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > > Fleur Delacour > > French for "Flower of the court." A student at the Beauxbatons > > Academy in France. Obviously seventeen or older. The guys are > crazy > > for her because, as we later find out, she's part veela. We > discover > > that her grandmother was a veela, and that one of her hairs makes > up > > the magical core of Fleur's wand (9 ? inches, inflexible, rosewood). > > She comes to Hogwarts to participate in the Triwizard Tournament > and > > gets selected as school champion for Beauxbatons. She's very good > at > > charms. > > Fleur starts out not being too impressed with Harry, but in the end > > she is very grateful to him for having saved her sister's life in > the > > second task. > > I personally was unimpressed by Fleur (perhaps it is because I am a > > female?). She had some trouble in the competition. I would have > > been happier if Fleur was at least a threat to the others, but she > > remained in fourth place for nearly the whole thing. > > I would have been happier if she had shown up better, too, but > I was impressed that she was grateful to Harry and Ron for rescuing > her sister and not defensive. > > > > My favorite scene with Fleur is at the Yule Ball, when she is with > > Roger Davies of Ravenclaw. Roger, like every other guy who tried > to > > ask Fleur to the ball, is going absolutely gaga over her. It's > like > > he's under a spell: "Roger Davies was watching her talk with a > very > > dazed look on his face, and he kept missing his mouth with his > fork. > > Harry had the impression that Davies was too busy staring at Fleur > to > > take in a word she was saying" (418). > > Anyways, in the end, Fleur thanks Harry for having saved her > sister's > > life and tells him and Ron that she wants to come back and " get a > > job `ere, to improve my Eenglish" (724). Ron's excited, Hermione's > > really not. > > That's strange. Why would Hermione care -- Harry is not interested in > Fleur and everyone knows that Hermione is not interested in Ron, > > > > > So that's it with Fleur. There wasn't really a whole lot about > her, > > but I think we'll definitely see her again. > > > > Viktor Krum > > A student of the Durmstrang Institute in Bulgaria. The star seeker > > for the Bulgarian National Quiddich team. He catches the snitch at > > the World Cup final to lose the game for Bulgaria. I still don't > get > > it. As I said before, he's like Durmstrang's Harry Potter?the > > miraculous Quiddich seeker and the Headmaster's favorite boy. > > However, he is very impressed by Harry's flying. > > (An aside: Does anyone ever wonder why, when speaking to each > other, > > the people from Beauxbatons and Durmstrang speak English? Yes, I > > know, if she put it in French or Bulgarian we wouldn't understand > it, > > but still it's the whole concept that bugs me.) > > Viktor comes to Hogwarts to participate in the Triwizard > > Championship. No big surprise when he is selected. The girls, > who > > were crazy about him before, are even crazier about him now. They > > follow him around, trying to get his autograph. Surprisingly, Ron > is > > also one of his adoring fans. However, Viktor stuns them all by > > falling in love with Hermione and taking her to the Yule Ball. It > is > > because of him that we learn how to really pronounce her name: Her- > > MY-oh-nee. > > He is the biggest competition for Cedric and Harry. However, I do > > not really understand what is going on in the end does someone use > > Imperious Curse on him to get him to put the Cruciatus Curse on > > others? I got a little confused in the explanation. > > The fake Moody/B. Crouch, Jr. put the Imperius curse on Viktor, and > compelled him to put the Cruciatus curse on Cedric Diggory. > > I'm thinking..hmmm...why didn't Crouch just put the Cruciatus curse > directly on Diggory? Then I'm back to my theory expressed in prior > posts -- that Voldemort wanted the whole magical world watching -- > hence the whole buildup at the TriWizard tournament, so that > everyone would know how he had hoodwinked AB and defeated HP. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Oct 29 04:57:56 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:57:56 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic #2: [Fwd: Literature Abuse: is Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4789 Ummm, what does it mean (all joking aside) If I answered affirmatively to 18 out of the 19? -------------------------------------------------------------- Self-test for literature abuse How many of these apply to you? [ snip] If you answered 'yes' to three or more of these questions, you may be a literature abuser. Affirmative responses to five or more indicates a serious problem. From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 29 05:15:22 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:15:22 -0000 Subject: AB? (was Re: Fleur/Viktor discussion) should be AD In-Reply-To: <8tfrlp+41n1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tgbpa+e6bd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4790 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kaitlin " wrote: > Susan wrote: > >so that everyone would know how he had hoodwinked AB and defeated HP. > > Who's AB? Should it be AD (Albus Dumbledore) or AM (Alastor Moody)? > Just curious. > ~Kaitlin Sorry, typo..should be Albus Dumbledore.....Anno Domine, After Death....etc. From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 29 05:16:18 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:16:18 -0000 Subject: Fleur/Viktor discussion In-Reply-To: <200010281154.e9SBsvU22775@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <8tgbr2+30s7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4791 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >That's strange. Why would Hermione care -- Harry is not interested in > >Fleur and everyone knows that Hermione is not interested in Ron, > > > This WAS sarcasm right? Tell me this was sarcasm! > > > Kathy It WAS sarcasm and SOMEone already took the bait! From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 29 05:18:44 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:18:44 -0000 Subject: Peter and Potter/Disney, maybe not so offtopic In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001027210907.02915960@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8tgbvk+rtd6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4792 Dave, no I don't work for the circus (would like to), but the whole scene with Mom in chains and Dumbo in major distress.. it's awful! Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 29 05:21:11 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:21:11 -0000 Subject: NPR Interview In-Reply-To: <39FAFE9A.754D88EF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8tgc47+kc8b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4793 I listened to the NPR interview last night -- no new information -- but it was just lovely. Do people know that Margot Adler is a witch? A real one... author of Drawing Down the Moon which is an outstanding and lengthy description of neo-pagans and pagans in the U.S. thanks to whomever posted that link! Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Oct 29 05:24:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:24:04 -0000 Subject: Fleur & R/H In-Reply-To: <71.7e03cfb.272c33f6@aol.com> Message-ID: <8tgc9k+rvhf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4794 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, HarryPotterJrs at a... wrote: > I liked Hermione with Viktor. I am hoping he comes back to the school via > his invitation, as well. Fleur, well, like H, I won't be disappointed if she > doesn't show up again. > ~shahara Well, I'm of the school that believes that JKR already knows that Ron and Hermione will become partners (they had become oddly formal with each other). However, I hope and believe that Hermione will accept Viktor's invitation. She has been to France; she wished she could have gone to Egypt. I hope she will take the opportunity to visit Bulgaria, and perhaps Durmstrang, and learn first hand about wizards and witches abroad. I think she will. Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 29 06:04:33 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 06:04:33 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic #2: [Fwd: Literature Abuse: is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8tgelh+ivrn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4795 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > Ummm, what does it mean (all joking aside) If I answered affirmatively to 18 out of the 19? > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Self-test for literature abuse > How many of these apply to you? > [ snip] If you answered 'yes' to three or more of these questions, you may be a literature abuser. Affirmative responses to five or more indicates a serious problem. LOL! It means you're a hopelessly lost cause, Voicelady, like all the rest of us, I suspect. Kelley From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Oct 29 06:12:18 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 06:12:18 -0000 Subject: HP Book Error In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001021101457.02552c00@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8tgf42+punn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4796 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 09:30 AM 10/21/00 +0100, Nick Mitchell wrote: > >Yes, it sure is. It's in the UK First Edition and 2nd Edition. > >US edition has the correct wording - Fudge, not Crouch. > > But the US edition has an error of its own: During the interrogation > of Crouch Jr, it at one point refers to him as "Moody", even though this > is of course after the Polyjuice Potion has worn off and his true identity > revealed. > > -- Dave Dave, I happened to catch that one too, in my second read of GoF, and always kept forgetting to mention it. I think that was the only one I caught before it was mentioned; I usually don't notice til someone points them out. Glad you brought it up. Kelley From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 29 06:16:36 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 01:16:36 -0500 Subject: 7 Heavenly Virtues: Fortitude (long) Message-ID: <39FBC0C3.7E959D37@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4797 We shall call the third of the 7 Heavenly Virtues "fortitude." The cluster of concepts related to fortitude include strength, courage, endurance and resoluteness. Americans in some regions might call it "grit." This virtue is the first of the 7 Heavenly virtues derived from what the Greeks termed the cardinal virtues. See: http://www.deadlysins.com/virtue.htm Note the etymology: the words "fort" and "fortify are derived from the same Latin root, 'fortis,' meaning 'strong.' Like a fort, fortitude is something which shields the hero under siege, like Harry and his friends, all assailed by Lord Voldemort. Fortitude thus is a protective virtue, both for individuals and groups. Groups survive best under siege when they cooperate. The group that Dumbledore gathers around him at the end of GoF, the "old crowd," are like the blocks in a siege wall, standing together against Voldemort's attack, the last and best hope for protection for the wizarding world. At the beginning of PS/SS, Harry's powerlessness, living with the Dursleys, is continually emphasized. He sleeps in the worst space in the house, the closet under the stairs; he is continually beat upon by Dudley; he is ordered about and insulted by his aunt and uncle; he has no permission to do as he likes; he is deprived of privileges, decent clothing and food; he is made to work while Dudley loafs, etc., etc. In contrast, Dudley seems to have all the power in the household, even more than his parents, whom he orders around without impunity (note, for example, how quickly Aunt Petunia folds when Dudley discovers that he has received a mere 37 birthday presents). And yet, as we have seen before in discussions of other virtues and sins, Harry's upbringing with the Dursleys has in a sort of backhanded way both warned him away from sins and given him a unique perspective on virtues. Specifically, the way the Dursleys have failed to nurture Harry has forced him to develop a core of inner toughness which ironically serves him well in his adventures at Hogwarts. Unlike Dudley, who has had his every whim catered to since birth, Harry has had no one to rely upon but himself since he was fifteen months old. Fortitude, I think, manifests itself both in active and passive forms. Passive fortitude means bearing things (ranging from the merely vexing to the dreadful) without giving up or giving in. For Harry, at a more minor level, this means for example enduring the jibes of classmates who mistakenly think he cheated to get his name in the Goblet of Fire (of course it helps to have Hermione sitting beside him intoning, "ignore them, ignore them, ignore them.") This kind of fortitude, because it is passive, can be easily underestimated or overlooked. A very subtle example of this, perhaps, might be Neville Longbottom, who earns Harry's belated respect once Harry realizes that Neville has lost his parents to Voldemort, too. Neville carries on, nevertheless, trying to conquer his fear of Snape in Potions class, without a murmur of complaint, without even telling anyone. Just quietly going on about his life and humbly doing his best, while continuing to faithfully visit his parents at the hospital on his holidays, although they are unable to even recognize him. Harry is ashamed that he has never truly seen the truth about Neville before learning it in Dumbledore's Pensieve, but it is understandable why he did not--this kind of fortitude does not draw attention to itself. Ron, on the other hand, is someone who has a great deal of trouble with this particular virtue. Again and again, he rises to the bait Draco offers, utterly losing control of himself in the process. He doesn't seem to be getting any better at keeping a rein on his temper. If Ron is an example of someone lacking fortitude in minor matters, then Peter Pettigrew serves as an example of someone who lacked fortitude at a major critical juncture, when life and death hung in the balance: "He [Voldemort] was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. 'Wh--what was to be gained by refusing him?" Sirius' answer is withering: only innocent lives. THAT is what is lost when fortitude fails. (PoA, Ch. 19). Passive fortitude stands against two of the greatest tools of evil: fear and despair. Voldemort knows this, which is why he leaves the Dark Mark to hang in the sky over the sites of his murders. He knows that this sign awakens terror in the hearts of those who would resist him, weakening their fortitude. And when his enemies' fortitude wavers, Voldemort's job is all the easier. Consider, too, the Dementors. They also act by weakening fortitude, literally sucking it away, leaving only fear and despair behind. The critical importance of fortitude as a virtue is demonstrated by the dread everyone has of Azkaban. Because the Dementors rule there, the prisoners' lives are indeed bleak. Stripped of their fortitude, the prisoners are utterly pitiable, screaming until they fall into despairing silence, and many eventually die. The Dementors' most concentrated attack (their Kiss) leaves only a soulless husk. They can be fought, Lupin tells Harry, but doing so is very advanced magic. Dumbledore is right to argue with Fudge that the Dementors should be removed from the protection of Azkaban--the Dementors indeed are Voldemort's natural allies. Here we see that Fortitude's natural ally is Hope. Passive fortitude, the ability to wait out a siege, is strongest when hope is there to sustain. Conversely, then, the strongest fortitude--and perhaps the most critical in resisting evil--is resistance which continues when all hope is gone: "Harry crouched behind the headstone and knew the end had come. There was no hope . . . no help to be had. And as he heard Voldemort drawing nearer still, he knew one thing only, and it was beyond fear or reason: He was not going to die crouching here like a child playing hide-and-seek; he was not going to die kneeling at Voldemort's feet . . . he was going to die upright like his father, and he was going to die trying to defend himself, even if no defense was possible. . . . " (GoF, Ch. 34). The other kind of fortitude, which manifests itself actively, can be called courage. "Courage in the face of the unknown is an important quality in a wizard," as Harry is told when he joins the other Tri-wizard champions after his name is drawn from the Goblet of Fire (Ch. 17). If passive fortitude is the fortress in which the hero waits out the siege, then its active manifestation, courage, is what drives the hero from the safety of the fortress to engage the enemy in the field: "I'm going through that trapdoor tonight," as Harry puts in SS/PS (Ch. 16) "and nothing you two say is going to stop me!" Fortitude stands resolute in the face of fear and despair; courage keeps moving without giving up. It makes Harry face a dragon in the first task, and keep reaching for the next book on the stack (the next one . . . the next one . . .) while desperately trying to find the answer to how to breath under water for the second task. Cowardice is fleeing from the task at hand, as Gilderoy Lockhart tries flee Hogwarts when challenged by the staff to open the Chamber of Secrets to rescue Ginny. Courage instead means facing the unknown and going into the tunnel to face the basilisk. I want to make note one final, special courage which is particularly demonstrated in GoF, and that is the courage to face the truth. Again, we see contrasting examples. Dumbledore, speaking to Harry in his office after Harry has returned with Cedric's body, clearly sees this virtue for what it is: "You have shown bravery beyond anything I could have expected of you. I ask you to demonstrate your courage one more time. I ask you to tell us what happened." Facing the terrible truth, bearing witness to it and telling it, is healing: "It was even a relief; he [Harry] felt almost as though something poisonous were being extracted from him. It was costing him every bit of determination he had to keep talking, yet he sensed that once he had finished, he would feel better." And he does; it is not coincidental that as he finishes speaking, Fawkes' magical tears heal his physical wound. Harry's example of courage here contrasts with Cornelius Fudge's cowardice. "Take the steps I have suggested," Dumbledore urges him, "and you will be remembered as one of the bravest and greatest Ministers of Magic we have ever seen [note the use of the word "brave," signaling that it is courage we are talking about here]. Fail to act--and history will remember you as the man who stepped aside and allowed Voldemort a second chance to destroy the world we have tried to rebuild!" Despite Dumbledore's urging, however, Cornelius succumbs to his inner fears and rejects the truth, leaving all wizards more vulnerable to Voldemort. The unknown awaits: we will have to see whether the courage Harry and his friends have will be enough to face it. Comments, as always, are welcome. For those of you who would like to review the earlier essays I have written about the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Heavenly Virtues up until this one, following are the message numbers: 7 Deadly Sins: Pride: 1553 Envy: 1699 Gluttony: 1878 Lust: 2118 Anger: 2545 Covetousness: 2877 Sloth: 2998 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith: 3468 Hope: 3660 Charity: 4371 Related essays, possibly also of interest: Loyalty: 788 Secrets: 957 Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 Peg From larryngocnguyen at hotmail.com Sun Oct 29 06:41:44 2000 From: larryngocnguyen at hotmail.com (Larry Nguyen) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 06:41:44 -0000 Subject: HARRY POTTER V IN 2002?!!! HARRY and THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX? Message-ID: <8tggr8+d06d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4798 Did anyone else besides me actually read about JKR's Interview at http://filmforce.ign.com/news/1572.html ? She said that the fifth book would be named "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and also mentioned that because of the movie, she's a little behind and the book may be out as late as 2002! What's up with this? I'm just in shock right now! I won't be able to wait THAT long for the next book! : Larry "the Ragin' Asian" From sungod at themail.com Sun Oct 29 10:44:11 2000 From: sungod at themail.com (sungod at themail.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:44:11 -0000 Subject: Potter's Domain has moved - Please visit us we are trying to be the best still Message-ID: <8tgv1r+m9n2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4799 Hi All I want to thank all of our visitors for their support of the website. Due to the quantity of information being generated we have had to redesign the site into a categorised, searchable index. We are currently transferring data as quickly as possible and should be up to date and keeping you abreast of whats going on within a week. As well as reporting on Harry we are going to be reviewing kids/childrens/adolescents/adults books. We have thousands of them here so why not? We will definitely try to give you an unbiased opinion. The new domain is located at http://pottersdomain.eqrealm.com We hope to see you there Sungod http://pottersdomain.eqrealm.com From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Sun Oct 29 11:21:57 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:21:57 +0000 Subject: Literature Abuse (was: Off-Topic #2) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4800 > Ummm, what does it mean (all joking aside) If I answered affirmatively to 18 > out of the 19? > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Self-test for literature abuse > How many of these apply to you? > [ snip] If you answered 'yes' to three or more of these questions, you may be > a literature abuser. Affirmative responses to five or more indicates a serious > problem. ::looks around furtively:: My name is John and I have a literature problem. ======================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com When I am an Evil Overlord...#1A (with thanks to Rave) I will force the heroes to sing "the chimney sweep song" in order to humiliate them in front of the people they'd hoped to incite to rebellion. ======================================== From donnadr at gte.net Sun Oct 29 12:59:35 2000 From: donnadr at gte.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 07:59:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Fortitude (long) References: <39FBC0C3.7E959D37@ibm.net> Message-ID: <007001c041a8$190bf8a0$4a2c193f@donnadozier> No: HPFGUIDX 4801 Wow...that was really great, and inspiring. Thanks for the post. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Peg Kerr To: HPforGrownups Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 1:16 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Fortitude (long) We shall call the third of the 7 Heavenly Virtues "fortitude." The cluster of concepts related to fortitude include strength, courage, endurance and resoluteness. Americans in some regions might call it "grit." This virtue is the first of the 7 Heavenly virtues derived from what the Greeks termed the cardinal virtues. See: http://www.deadlysins.com/virtue.htm Note the etymology: the words "fort" and "fortify are derived from the same Latin root, 'fortis,' meaning 'strong.' Like a fort, fortitude is something which shields the hero under siege, like Harry and his friends, all assailed by Lord Voldemort. Fortitude thus is a protective virtue, both for individuals and groups. Groups survive best under siege when they cooperate. The group that Dumbledore gathers around him at the end of GoF, the "old crowd," are like the blocks in a siege wall, standing together against Voldemort's attack, the last and best hope for protection for the wizarding world. At the beginning of PS/SS, Harry's powerlessness, living with the Dursleys, is continually emphasized. He sleeps in the worst space in the house, the closet under the stairs; he is continually beat upon by Dudley; he is ordered about and insulted by his aunt and uncle; he has no permission to do as he likes; he is deprived of privileges, decent clothing and food; he is made to work while Dudley loafs, etc., etc. In contrast, Dudley seems to have all the power in the household, even more than his parents, whom he orders around without impunity (note, for example, how quickly Aunt Petunia folds when Dudley discovers that he has received a mere 37 birthday presents). And yet, as we have seen before in discussions of other virtues and sins, Harry's upbringing with the Dursleys has in a sort of backhanded way both warned him away from sins and given him a unique perspective on virtues. Specifically, the way the Dursleys have failed to nurture Harry has forced him to develop a core of inner toughness which ironically serves him well in his adventures at Hogwarts. Unlike Dudley, who has had his every whim catered to since birth, Harry has had no one to rely upon but himself since he was fifteen months old. Fortitude, I think, manifests itself both in active and passive forms. Passive fortitude means bearing things (ranging from the merely vexing to the dreadful) without giving up or giving in. For Harry, at a more minor level, this means for example enduring the jibes of classmates who mistakenly think he cheated to get his name in the Goblet of Fire (of course it helps to have Hermione sitting beside him intoning, "ignore them, ignore them, ignore them.") This kind of fortitude, because it is passive, can be easily underestimated or overlooked. A very subtle example of this, perhaps, might be Neville Longbottom, who earns Harry's belated respect once Harry realizes that Neville has lost his parents to Voldemort, too. Neville carries on, nevertheless, trying to conquer his fear of Snape in Potions class, without a murmur of complaint, without even telling anyone. Just quietly going on about his life and humbly doing his best, while continuing to faithfully visit his parents at the hospital on his holidays, although they are unable to even recognize him. Harry is ashamed that he has never truly seen the truth about Neville before learning it in Dumbledore's Pensieve, but it is understandable why he did not--this kind of fortitude does not draw attention to itself. Ron, on the other hand, is someone who has a great deal of trouble with this particular virtue. Again and again, he rises to the bait Draco offers, utterly losing control of himself in the process. He doesn't seem to be getting any better at keeping a rein on his temper. If Ron is an example of someone lacking fortitude in minor matters, then Peter Pettigrew serves as an example of someone who lacked fortitude at a major critical juncture, when life and death hung in the balance: "He [Voldemort] was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. 'Wh--what was to be gained by refusing him?" Sirius' answer is withering: only innocent lives. THAT is what is lost when fortitude fails. (PoA, Ch. 19). Passive fortitude stands against two of the greatest tools of evil: fear and despair. Voldemort knows this, which is why he leaves the Dark Mark to hang in the sky over the sites of his murders. He knows that this sign awakens terror in the hearts of those who would resist him, weakening their fortitude. And when his enemies' fortitude wavers, Voldemort's job is all the easier. Consider, too, the Dementors. They also act by weakening fortitude, literally sucking it away, leaving only fear and despair behind. The critical importance of fortitude as a virtue is demonstrated by the dread everyone has of Azkaban. Because the Dementors rule there, the prisoners' lives are indeed bleak. Stripped of their fortitude, the prisoners are utterly pitiable, screaming until they fall into despairing silence, and many eventually die. The Dementors' most concentrated attack (their Kiss) leaves only a soulless husk. They can be fought, Lupin tells Harry, but doing so is very advanced magic. Dumbledore is right to argue with Fudge that the Dementors should be removed from the protection of Azkaban--the Dementors indeed are Voldemort's natural allies. Here we see that Fortitude's natural ally is Hope. Passive fortitude, the ability to wait out a siege, is strongest when hope is there to sustain. Conversely, then, the strongest fortitude--and perhaps the most critical in resisting evil--is resistance which continues when all hope is gone: "Harry crouched behind the headstone and knew the end had come. There was no hope . . . no help to be had. And as he heard Voldemort drawing nearer still, he knew one thing only, and it was beyond fear or reason: He was not going to die crouching here like a child playing hide-and-seek; he was not going to die kneeling at Voldemort's feet . . . he was going to die upright like his father, and he was going to die trying to defend himself, even if no defense was possible. . . . " (GoF, Ch. 34). The other kind of fortitude, which manifests itself actively, can be called courage. "Courage in the face of the unknown is an important quality in a wizard," as Harry is told when he joins the other Tri-wizard champions after his name is drawn from the Goblet of Fire (Ch. 17). If passive fortitude is the fortress in which the hero waits out the siege, then its active manifestation, courage, is what drives the hero from the safety of the fortress to engage the enemy in the field: "I'm going through that trapdoor tonight," as Harry puts in SS/PS (Ch. 16) "and nothing you two say is going to stop me!" Fortitude stands resolute in the face of fear and despair; courage keeps moving without giving up. It makes Harry face a dragon in the first task, and keep reaching for the next book on the stack (the next one . . . the next one . . .) while desperately trying to find the answer to how to breath under water for the second task. Cowardice is fleeing from the task at hand, as Gilderoy Lockhart tries flee Hogwarts when challenged by the staff to open the Chamber of Secrets to rescue Ginny. Courage instead means facing the unknown and going into the tunnel to face the basilisk. I want to make note one final, special courage which is particularly demonstrated in GoF, and that is the courage to face the truth. Again, we see contrasting examples. Dumbledore, speaking to Harry in his office after Harry has returned with Cedric's body, clearly sees this virtue for what it is: "You have shown bravery beyond anything I could have expected of you. I ask you to demonstrate your courage one more time. I ask you to tell us what happened." Facing the terrible truth, bearing witness to it and telling it, is healing: "It was even a relief; he [Harry] felt almost as though something poisonous were being extracted from him. It was costing him every bit of determination he had to keep talking, yet he sensed that once he had finished, he would feel better." And he does; it is not coincidental that as he finishes speaking, Fawkes' magical tears heal his physical wound. Harry's example of courage here contrasts with Cornelius Fudge's cowardice. "Take the steps I have suggested," Dumbledore urges him, "and you will be remembered as one of the bravest and greatest Ministers of Magic we have ever seen [note the use of the word "brave," signaling that it is courage we are talking about here]. Fail to act--and history will remember you as the man who stepped aside and allowed Voldemort a second chance to destroy the world we have tried to rebuild!" Despite Dumbledore's urging, however, Cornelius succumbs to his inner fears and rejects the truth, leaving all wizards more vulnerable to Voldemort. The unknown awaits: we will have to see whether the courage Harry and his friends have will be enough to face it. Comments, as always, are welcome. For those of you who would like to review the earlier essays I have written about the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Heavenly Virtues up until this one, following are the message numbers: 7 Deadly Sins: Pride: 1553 Envy: 1699 Gluttony: 1878 Lust: 2118 Anger: 2545 Covetousness: 2877 Sloth: 2998 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith: 3468 Hope: 3660 Charity: 4371 Related essays, possibly also of interest: Loyalty: 788 Secrets: 957 Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 Peg eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 15:37:20 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 09:37:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic #2: [Fwd: Literature Abuse: is this you?] References: <39FB910B.5E7883ED@texas.net> Message-ID: <003801c041be$2b01bde0$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4802 Amanda, is it a bad sign when you get 18 out of 19 on your quiz? ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 8:52 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic #2: [Fwd: Literature Abuse: is this you?] Okay, here's the second. We seem to have such a group of well-read readers and talented writers, I thought you'd like this. --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dmjil at hotmail.com Sun Oct 29 15:35:27 2000 From: dmjil at hotmail.com (Mara de Atra) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 15:35:27 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter et la Coupe de Feu In-Reply-To: <8s2uvp+v0t3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8thg3v+p3o2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4803 True but you already may order your own copy at the URL http://www.francophones.org.il/fnac/hpiv.htm MdA --- Dans HPforGrownups at e..., "Jim Flanagan" a ?crit > Take a look at the new French cover for Book 4 in our Files area. > Release date is November 29. > > -Jim Flanagan From waghorne at ma.ultranet.com Sun Oct 29 15:44:35 2000 From: waghorne at ma.ultranet.com (Ken Waghorne) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 10:44:35 -500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Fortitude (long) In-Reply-To: <39FBC0C3.7E959D37@ibm.net> Message-ID: <200010291543.KAA23435@ligarius-fe0.ultra.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4804 Peg Kerr wrote: > > Comments, as always, are welcome. > > For those of you who would like to review the earlier essays I have > written about the 7 Deadly Sins and the 7 Heavenly Virtues up until this > one, following are the message numbers: > > 7 Deadly Sins: > Pride: 1553 > Envy: 1699 > Gluttony: 1878 > Lust: 2118 > Anger: 2545 > Covetousness: 2877 > Sloth: 2998 > > 7 Heavenly Virtues: > Faith: 3468 > Hope: 3660 > Charity: 4371 > > Related essays, possibly also of interest: > > Loyalty: 788 > Secrets: 957 > Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 Peg, I'd like to thank you for this whole series. At times the volume on this list is overwhelming to the point where I just briefly scan the first screen of a message before going on. However, I've learned to slow down as soon as I see one of your posts. Thanks again! Ken aka Hound Fan aka Boston... From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 29 17:43:56 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:43:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Fortitude (long) References: <200010291543.KAA23435@ligarius-fe0.ultra.net> Message-ID: <39FC61DB.995ACFDF@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4805 Ken Waghorne wrote: > Peg Kerr wrote: > > > > Comments, as always, are welcome. > Peg, > > I'd like to thank you for this whole series. At times the volume on > this list is overwhelming to the point where I just briefly scan the > first screen of a message before going on. However, I've learned to > slow down as soon as I see one of your posts. Thanks again! > > Ken > aka > Hound Fan > aka > Boston... Thanks. Kudos are always appreciated. (Substantive comments, too--but I seem to have failed to start much in the way of arguments in response to this series. Oh, well--I suppose it's ridiculous to hope I'll get a response back saying, "Oh, but I think Harry SHOULDN'T develop fortitude.") Anyway, through this analysis I've been doing--and it is really rather off-the-cuff, folks--I've gained more and more respect for the series as a story of moral development. This is one where I think the far-right Christian contingent is totally wrong when they try to get the books banned because they lead to moral turpitude. I respectfully suggest they're fishing up a tree. Peg >>>> Latest book read: Prince Ombra Current Reigning CD: Loreena McKennitt - Live in Paris and Toronto Last Movie Seen: Pay it Forward (and no, I don't really recommend it) From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 29 17:54:04 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:54:04 -0000 Subject: OT Re: HP TOUR (knight bus) In-Reply-To: <39FB51D4.9C6BDEA0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tho7s+bmda@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4806 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny Linsenmayer wrote: > And a coach company prepared to paint their bus bright purple & > emblazon the "Knight Bus" across the side?!! Actually, a bus doesn't have to be re-painted to look different: my MTA is doing shrink-wrapped busses: the entire bus is done up as one big advertisement by sticking some kind of covering all over it. If we get our bus shrink-wrapped, we will NOT want to cover the windows. Looking out through the covering makes the brightest sunny day look gray and makes neon-lit,streetlit night look like solid blackness. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 29 18:01:41 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:01:41 -0000 Subject: HP TOUR/parental consent In-Reply-To: <8tfvij+prqm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8thom5+bf44@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4807 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > I don't know that my mother would let be romp around Britain with a > bunch of people I've never "met". Some of the adults on this list can pass for very respectable, responsible grown-ups. If any of them live in your area, they could go over to meet your mother and give her the impression that we are sensible, trustworthy people who won't let you get seduced into evil ways. I don't what is your area. I'm in the Los Angeles CA area and I will be 43 in two weeks, but I don't know that I'd exactly make a *good* impression on a parent. I remember how it is: I was 15 IIRC when my mother wouldn't let me and my brother go out of the country to attend the World Science Fiction Convention (Worldcon) when it was in Toronto, even tho' Susan Fox was (is!) a year younger than me, and her mother let her go. From potterheads at aol.com Sun Oct 29 18:08:58 2000 From: potterheads at aol.com (potterheads at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:08:58 EST Subject: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4808 How the HECK do they stay on them???? LOL! And how COMFORTABLE could it possible be?? Is there a magically invisible SEAT on them?? (grin) Seriously, am I the only one who has pondered this question??? Most Sincerely, Pamela From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 29 18:09:23 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:09:23 -0000 Subject: Fwd: Literature Abuse: is In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8thp4j+5fkj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4809 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "voicelady" wrote: > Ummm, what does it mean (all joking aside) If I answered affirmatively to 18 out of the 19? It means you're not normal, and therefore do not have the same opinions of political candidates, TV shows, and popular songs that normal people do. I suppose, as an actor living in New York City, you might not have to associate withn normal people very much very often, and therefore might not remember just how alien and unpleasant they are. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 29 18:16:41 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:16:41 -0000 Subject: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8thpi9+sfl4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4810 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, potterheads at a... wrote: > How the HECK do they stay on them???? LOL! And how COMFORTABLE > could it possibly be?? Is there a magically invisible SEAT on > them?? (grin) Seriously, am I the only one who has pondered this > question??? I seem to recall that there was some discussion of this matter somewhere once before. One discussant said that there must be a Comfortable Padding Charm where the rider sits, or else no male Quidditch player would ever father children. That particular problem had not occured to me, but I'd been worrying that Quidditch has got to be the sport LEAST suited to wearing robes (well, maybe except for swimming): go into a dive and the skirts fly up over your head! Never mind modesty: the player needs to be able to SEE where he/she is going! I suppose the robes have a Static Cling Charm to prevent that... From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 29 18:42:32 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:42:32 -0000 Subject: Viktor(was: Fleur/Viktor discussion In-Reply-To: <8tg8sa+4enr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8thr2o+pkau@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4811 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Odile Alburquerque" wrote: > Ever since the time i started the harry potter series, ever since > book 1, i had gotten this feeling that Hermione and Ron could end > up with some kind of a fling, since they seem to have all this > friction between them. It seems to me that, in general, the shippers (the people who are advocating that some particular love relation"ship" should happen) aren't greatly concerned with "flings", only with who gets married until death does them part. And even if Book 7 ended with two characters marrying, that wouldn't silence the people who wanted to marry those characters off to other people: they'd just predict that the marriage would end soon, by divorce or death. And I, not knowing all the plot twists and surprise revelations of Books 5,6, and 7, would like to be a Hermione/Viktor shipper (even if Viktor has to wait patiently and loyally until she marries and breaks up with Ron). I have previously argued at length my reasons for believing that he is a good guy, he really loves her, and that he would be a supportive help-meet for her when she struggles with grad school, academic politics, MoM politics, etc. However, JKR gave him that name "Krum", so I expected that he would turn out to be crummy and I was surprised and relieved when he turned out to be a good guy. But he still has that name (supposed to be German for "bent or crooked") and he still has the hunched, duckfoot walk that JKR mentioned so often, so there still must be something up with him. I expect that JKR will either kill him or reveal that he is a bad guy after all in Book 5, which would make him ineligible for marriage. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sun Oct 29 18:53:35 2000 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:53:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... References: Message-ID: <39FC722E.6123CBF4@ibm.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4812 potterheads at aol.com wrote: > How the HECK do they stay on them???? LOL! And how COMFORTABLE could it > possible be?? Is there a magically invisible SEAT on them?? (grin) Seriously, > am I the only one who has pondered this question??? > > Most Sincerely, > Pamela > No, I've wondered about it, too. I imagine that if you have no head for heights a ride on a brookstick would be terrifying. You have to watch out for electric wires. And you get bugs in your teeth on fast dives. The idea of riding on a broom is appealing . . . until you really think about it. But, perhaps as suggested, there are charms "built in" to the magic which makes broom riding possible (seat padding, clothes-taming, bug repellent) that makes the whole thing pleasant. Either way, I'd probably be game to at least try playing Quidditch if I was ever offered the opportunity. And a magical broomstick to play it with. Peg >>> No, that's my sister. I'm La Belle Dame Sans a Reasonably Cooperative Attitude. From lildreamer842 at aol.com Sun Oct 29 18:53:40 2000 From: lildreamer842 at aol.com (lildreamer842 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:53:40 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... Message-ID: <43.c037979.272dcc34@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4813 In a message dated 10/29/00 1:17:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, potterheads at aol.com writes: << How the HECK do they stay on them???? LOL! And how COMFORTABLE could it possible be?? Is there a magically invisible SEAT on them?? (grin) Seriously, am I the only one who has pondered this question??? >> Definately not .. I have wondered about this lots of times .. ALot of people who write fanfiction wierd me out when they have Harry/Hermione or any one else , flying far distances on these things ... my first question was umm ... wouldn't a guy imparticular feel discomfort from the umm ... broom .. and then flying long distance it must hurt I can't imagine feeling comfortable flying around on a stick ... glad you brought this up cuz I had been wondering about it for awhile Rachel ------------------- We are, each of us angels with only one wing; and we can only fly by embracing one another. From lildreamer842 at aol.com Sun Oct 29 18:55:09 2000 From: lildreamer842 at aol.com (lildreamer842 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:55:09 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... Message-ID: <90.b538634.272dcc8d@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4814 Oh yea and about my previous post .. maybe they wear some special kinda jock strap lol hehe Rachel ------------------------ We are, each of us angels with only one wing; and we can only fly by embracing one another. From editor at texas.net Sun Oct 29 19:32:20 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:32:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off-Topic #2: [Fwd: Literature Abuse: is this you?] References: <39FB910B.5E7883ED@texas.net> <003801c041be$2b01bde0$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39FC7B43.7D3A07C0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4815 Denise Rogers wrote: > Amanda, is it a bad sign when you get 18 out of 19 on your quiz? It's apparently a common condition on our list....glad you guys are having fun with it! --Amanda From vivienne at caersidi.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 29 19:49:07 2000 From: vivienne at caersidi.demon.co.uk (Vivienne O'Regan) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:49:07 +0000 Subject: NPR Interview Message-ID: <39FC7F33.ED675637@caersidi.demon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4816 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:21:11 -0000 "Susan McGee" wrote: >I listened to the NPR interview last night -- no new information -- >but it was just lovely. >Do people know that Margot Adler is a witch? A real one... >author of Drawing Down the Moon which is an outstanding >and lengthy description of neo-pagans and pagans in the U.S. Yes. We met by chance when she was a guest on a programme for Channel 4 one Halloween. Thanks to C4's generosity myself and a couple of friends were being wined and dined by another guest on the show before the late night live broadcast. Margot heard our conversation on subject of magic and various related bits and pieces and came over and introduced herself. I found her very open and accessible. Someone who automatically puts others at ease and can draw them out. It was easy to see how she was able to do the book though by nature American pagans and witches are much more forthcoming than those in the UK. Much more of a 'closed' community here. 'Drawing Down the Moon' remains an important work on the subject. Rowling has struck me as somewhat touchy or dismissive on the subject of magic and witchcraft in the real world, though I can't imagine she wasn't aware of Margot's background. Did the subject come up or was just not an issue? (My computer doesn't seem to want to play audio). Vivienne From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Oct 29 19:54:30 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:54:30 -0500 Subject: Recipes From Honeydukes/The Joke Shop Kitchen References: <39FC7F33.ED675637@caersidi.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <39FC8076.8C98DD62@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4817 http://www.herald.com/content/today/living/food/digdocs/087075.htm What lucky little muggles you are today. We're taking you to Honeydukes for the best Halloween candy in the world. That's how the article begins - they've got recipes for Chocolate Frogs, Cockroach Clusters & Ton Tongue Toffee - and just so you know, each frog has 151 calories - they MUST have some fat-blocking charm over hogwarts' dorms & common rooms! From catlady at wicca.net Sun Oct 29 20:11:27 2000 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:11:27 -0000 Subject: NPR Interview In-Reply-To: <39FC7F33.ED675637@caersidi.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <8ti09f+hkts@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4818 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Vivienne O'Regan wrote: > > Rowling has struck me as somewhat touchy or dismissive on the > subject of magic and witchcraft in the real world, though I can't > imagine she wasn't aware of Margot's background. Did the subject > come up or was just not an issue? (My computer doesn't seem to want > to play audio). The part of the interview that was broadcast (I didn't bother to listen to the extra part on the Web) sounded so generic that my thought while listening to it was that they could have taken tape from any other JKR interview and just replaced the other interviewer's words with Margot reading the same questions. Why do you think that JKR must have known of Margot's background when being interviewed by Margot? Surely she doesn't check up on all the journalists sent to interview her! You might be implying that JKR encountered Margot's book (first edition copyrght 1979, long enough ago) while researching magic and occultism -- but I haven't seen anything in HP or in JKR interviews to make me think that JKR RESEARCHED magic or occultism. Wands, pointy hats, broomsticks, cauldrons and the like are known from Halloween decorations! Her display of knowledge of mythical monsters and the meaning of names suggests to me, not deliberate research, but having spent part of her childhood reading around in folklore and mythology books. I don't think the monsters require more research than reading THE BOOK OF WEIRD (which was published as THE GLASS HARMONICA when I was in college -- probably 1976). So, it could be that all her research was done before Margot's first book came out. From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Oct 29 20:25:12 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:25:12 -0000 Subject: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... In-Reply-To: <39FC722E.6123CBF4@ibm.net> Message-ID: <8ti138+ad2n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4819 It's going to take some real creativity for the movie people to show the game of Quidditch without looking ridiculous. I have no idea how they'll do it, hope they find a way. From vderark at bccs.org Sun Oct 29 22:56:07 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:56:07 -0000 Subject: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... In-Reply-To: <8ti138+ad2n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8ti9u7+m2ut@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4820 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > It's going to take some real creativity for the movie people to show > the game of Quidditch without looking ridiculous. I have no idea how > they'll do it, hope they find a way. I've been thinking the same thing. I've been trying to imagine how they can make it look at all convincing and can't picture it. I bet it's giving the SFX guys major headaches. And I'll bet we'll all be absolutely amazed when we see it :) And speaking as a guy, I can guarantee you that there is NO WAY I'd ride a broomstick unless there were some kind of charm involved to make it comfortable. Think about the acceleration too...nothing to hang onto except a slippery broom handle? There has to be some kind of dampening field involved, similar to the one protecting people aboard the starship Enterprise when it goes zooming around the galaxy (Trek fans will know what I mean, seriously obessive Trek fans will know the specs and schematics of the system and own the tech manual...guess which kind of fan I am?). I would expect that there is a protective "bubble" that holds broom and rider (and robes) together as a single moving object and that allows the rider to essentially float a bit above the handle. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Oct 29 23:49:01 2000 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:49:01 -0000 Subject: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... In-Reply-To: <8ti9u7+m2ut@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tid1d+oemu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4821 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > There has to be some kind > of dampening field involved, similar to the one protecting people > aboard the starship Enterprise when it goes zooming around the galaxy > (Trek fans will know what I mean, seriously obessive Trek fans will > know the specs and schematics of the system and own the tech > manual...guess which kind of fan I am. I'm not sure what the ST version's called, but in "Star Wars" they're called inertial compensators; the level usually is infinitely adjustable between off, full or any percentage, via a dial on the control panel. Which begs the question; where do they put the dial on a broomstick? Oh well, maybe JKR will explain it to us seriously obsessive HP fans in "Quidditch Through The Ages" ! From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 00:20:32 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 00:20:32 -0000 Subject: HP TOUR/parental consent In-Reply-To: <8thom5+bf44@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tiesg+56uc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4822 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > I remember how it is: I was 15 IIRC when my mother wouldn't let me > and my brother go out of the country to attend the World Science > Fiction Convention (Worldcon) when it was in Toronto, even tho' > Susan Fox was (is!) a year younger than me, and her mother let her > go. Yeah, and I was 17 when my mother told me I couldn't go to Woodstock, but I went anyway. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 01:24:49 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:24:49 -0000 Subject: Viktor(was: Fleur/Viktor discussion In-Reply-To: <8thr2o+pkau@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tiil1+t1bq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4823 > > However, JKR gave him that name "Krum", so I expected that he would > turn out to be crummy and I was surprised and relieved when he turned > out to be a good guy. But he still has that name (supposed to be > German for "bent or crooked") and he still has the hunched, duckfoot > walk that JKR mentioned so often, so there still must be something up > with him. I expect that JKR will either kill him or reveal that he is > a bad guy after all in Book 5, which would make him ineligible for > marriage. LOL!!!...At least in JKR's world! In the real world, he'd probably marry six times..... From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 01:29:19 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:29:19 -0000 Subject: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... In-Reply-To: <8ti9u7+m2ut@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tiitf+2u0i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4824 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > > And speaking as a guy, I can guarantee you that there is NO WAY I'd > ride a broomstick unless there were some kind of charm involved to > make it comfortable. how do you guys ride bicycles? in marathons, no less.... Think about the acceleration too...nothing to > hang onto except a slippery broom handle? There has to be some kind > of dampening field involved, similar to the one protecting people > aboard the starship Enterprise when it goes zooming around the galaxy > (Trek fans will know what I mean, seriously obessive Trek fans will > know the specs and schematics of the system and own the tech > manual...guess which kind of fan I am I want to know why the Starship does not get SEAT belts! And I keep being met with derision every time I bring it up..but does everyone always have to be flung around the bridge? Re: Quidditch robes -- robes may mean something different....perhaps there are ceremonial Quidditch robes that one parades on the field with (the ones Ludo Bagman proudly wears at the world Quidditich cups), and then there are the similarly colored actual suits for broomstick riding....JKR may cite "magic", but the robes would be aerodynamically contraindicated..yes? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 01:39:02 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:39:02 -0000 Subject: Off-Topic, but you asked, was: Peter (& Disney) In-Reply-To: <39FA45C0.79B42573@texas.net> Message-ID: <8tijfm+8ic2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4825 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Denise Rogers wrote: > Civilizing the wilderness was a good thing, even as recently as what, forty years ago? You don't realize it until you're watching it and think, wow, they don't say that anymore. We apologize for existing, these days. > Who is we in this sentence Amanda? Civilizing the wilderness as in giving native americans blankets infected with smallpox in order to get rid of them? Very civilized. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 01:53:04 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:53:04 -0000 Subject: NPR Interview In-Reply-To: <8ti09f+hkts@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tika0+npr5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4826 > Why do you think that JKR must have known of Margot's background when > being interviewed by Margot? Surely she doesn't check up on all the > journalists sent to interview her! You might be implying that JKR > encountered Margot's book (first edition copyrght 1979, long enough > ago) while researching magic and occultism I thought JKR might have known because they sounded like friends in the interview. Adler was asking more questions about how JKR was doing then she was probing for the details we here so cherish. However, I agree that there isn't much evidence at all (if any) that JKR knows anything about "modern" witchcraft and paganism.. the spell casting is very different, for example, although the visualization technique in the repelling the Boggart and Expecto Patronum are similar. Hmmm..perhaps I should think about this and expand! Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 01:57:56 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:57:56 -0000 Subject: Sirius in Scotland In-Reply-To: <006101c0413e$3d7aa700$acaf20cc@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8tikj4+2e9p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4827 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "lrcjestes" wrote: > > I'd still like to keep Scotland in the tour though. > > carole Well, it's total fantasy to think that I could go..but I'd love to keep Scotland in...my great grandfather, James MacKay was born in Edinborough, and my grandmother's maternal grandfather, Jock Ledell was born in Scotland, but came to the U.S. in time to fight for the Union in the civil war....It's why my grandmother was Jesse GRANT MacKay.... susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 02:20:54 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 02:20:54 -0000 Subject: Off topic - Pocahontas Message-ID: <8tilu6+of0l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4828 1595? - 1617 Pocahontas wasn't even her real name. It was a nickname meaning Playful one" bestowed by her father. Her tribal name was Matoaka. Capt. John Smith came to Jamestown in 1607. We have only Smith's word, however, for his dramatic capture and subsequent rescue from hostile natives by the 12 year Pocahontas. It's an unresolved controversy. Who knows? Maybe he swore allegiance to the chief and vowed to marry his daughter and broke his vow. Unfortunately, some grown men can be and are interested in 12 year old girls. In 1609, Smith returned to England. A few months later, she met and married an Indian named Kocoum. In Decemer of 1612, she was kidnapped by Capt. Samuel Argall, a British sea captain, and held hostage against the return of some English prisoners and ammunition being held by her father. During her captivity, she converted to Christianity, and met and married John Rolfe..her baptismal name became Rebecca. The marriage ushered in a period of unprecedented peace between Native Americans and English settlers. Three years later, she accompanied her husband with their infant son to London, where she entered high society, and attended a performance of Shakespeare's The Tempest at the Globe Theatre. She was presented to King James and Queen Anne, and was said to have conducted herself as the daughter of a King might. Her health began to fail, and she went to her estate in the country. She was visited by John Smith. That meeting has been the subject of endless speculation, but remains shrouded in Smith's ambiguous account. He left her feeling guilty for having betrayed their friendship. In 1617, John Rolfe was appointed secretary of the Virginia colony. They boarded a ship for Virginia. While the ship was still anchored in the Thames, Pocahontas became ill and died. Thomas, Pocahontas' son grew up in England raised by an uncle, and returned to the U.S. as an adult. His descendants are said to have included the Virginia Jeffersons, Lees, Randolphs and Marshalls. From HarryPotterJrs at aol.com Mon Oct 30 02:32:14 2000 From: HarryPotterJrs at aol.com (HarryPotterJrs at aol.com) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:32:14 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: NPR Interview Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4829 I recall JKR stating that she had never met any 'real' witches (which disappointed me!)...so I doubt she ever knew of Margot Adler. ~shahara << Why do you think that JKR must have known of Margot's background when > being interviewed by Margot? ... I thought JKR might have known because they sounded like friends in the interview.... However, I agree that there isn't much evidence at all (if any) that JKR knows anything about "modern" witchcraft and paganism..>> From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 01:24:07 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:24:07 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... References: <8ti9u7+m2ut@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000101c04224$5d87a340$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4830 Steve, What about the game where Harry is literally hanging on by his hands to the stick? The bubble isn't there for that. Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Vander Ark To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 4:56 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > It's going to take some real creativity for the movie people to show > the game of Quidditch without looking ridiculous. I have no idea how > they'll do it, hope they find a way. I've been thinking the same thing. I've been trying to imagine how they can make it look at all convincing and can't picture it. I bet it's giving the SFX guys major headaches. And I'll bet we'll all be absolutely amazed when we see it :) And speaking as a guy, I can guarantee you that there is NO WAY I'd ride a broomstick unless there were some kind of charm involved to make it comfortable. Think about the acceleration too...nothing to hang onto except a slippery broom handle? There has to be some kind of dampening field involved, similar to the one protecting people aboard the starship Enterprise when it goes zooming around the galaxy (Trek fans will know what I mean, seriously obessive Trek fans will know the specs and schematics of the system and own the tech manual...guess which kind of fan I am?). I would expect that there is a protective "bubble" that holds broom and rider (and robes) together as a single moving object and that allows the rider to essentially float a bit above the handle. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 30 03:21:10 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:21:10 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... References: <8ti138+ad2n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FCE925.D3B155B6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4831 eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > It's going to take some real creativity for the movie people to show > the game of Quidditch without looking ridiculous. I have no idea how > they'll do it, hope they find a way. Seems to me if they just avoid shots looking from beneath, they're in. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 30 03:27:17 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:27:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR/parental consent References: <8tiesg+56uc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FCEA95.30B62B48@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4832 Susan McGee wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > > > I remember how it is: I was 15 IIRC when my mother wouldn't let me > > and my brother go out of the country to attend the World Science > > Fiction Convention (Worldcon) when it was in Toronto, even tho' > > Susan Fox was (is!) a year younger than me, and her mother let her > > go. > > Yeah, and I was 17 when my mother told me I couldn't go to Woodstock, > but I went anyway. Wow, Susan, and you seem like such a stick-to-the-rules, don't-challenge- the-status-quo type of gal! --Amanda, ducking and running From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 30 03:29:39 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:29:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... References: <8tiitf+2u0i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FCEB23.1CACF1C2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4833 Susan McGee wrote: > how do you guys ride bicycles? in marathons, no less.... Split seats. Honest. But really, folks, don't you think their seats are down on the broom part? Do you really think they're sitting on the stick itself? Ugh. Talk about a wedgie. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 30 03:36:17 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:36:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Off-Topic, but you asked, was: Peter (& Disney) References: <8tijfm+8ic2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FCECB0.C5F2CF5F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4834 Susan McGee wrote: > We apologize for existing, these days. > > > > Who is we in this sentence Amanda? Any native of America not of Native American descent. > Civilizing the wilderness as in giving native americans blankets > infected with smallpox in order to get rid of them? > > Very civilized. See, that's what I mean. Some decades ago, when the history of the frontier was presented, it focused mainly on the positive aspects. Today, it focuses mainly on the negative. We have yet to find a balance. This is like the wolf debate, with the pro-wolf people saying no human has been killed by wolves, etc., and the anti-wolf people saying they kill domestic animals en masse, etc. Neither side is entirely correct, but neither is entirely incorrect--they build emotional cases from selective evidence, to sway their audience. A grey matter should not be presented as either white or black. My comments were attempting to mark that in years past, it was white, now it seems to be black, and we have yet to achieve grey. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 30 03:46:25 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:46:25 -0600 Subject: Movie stuff Message-ID: <39FCEF11.A3003A91@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4835 More tidbits from my Rickman newsletter; you've heard most of them, but here it is just in case. Oh, and good job to Simon! Your catching the rumors of Richard Harris in Oxford was our first noted mention on the web (and Sally's pretty thorough). --Amanda Reprinted with permission; disclaimer and identification info follows clip. 1. SNAPE AND HARRY POTTER: THE LATEST Well, I guess this is going to be an ongoing section at least for the short term, with filming currently happening Firstly, the news surrounding Alan Rickman! Within 24 hours of announcing in this newsletter that Alan Rickman had wrapped up his first scene in Harry Potter, The British newspaper, The Sunday Telegraph" (22nd October, 2000) published the following article - a confirmation of sorts: ' "WIZARD WHEEZE" By Adam Helliker THE Duke and Duchess of Northumberland have good reason to be grateful to Harry Potter: the couple have made a small fortune from renting out their stately home, Alnwick Castle, as the setting in the forthcoming film for the Hogwart's school of wizardry. As the last few flakes of fake snow were being swept away this weekend, (the aftermath of the Christmas sequence), such stars as Robbie Coltrane, Alan Rickman and Zoe Wanamaker have packed their bags, expressing reluctance about leaving the magical beauty spot set in 600 acres of woodland. "We were delighted to have had them there," declared a spokesman for the duke, who has made a tidy sum in location fees from film companies - the castle has featured in Becket, Mary Queen of Scots, Robin Hood Prince of Thieves and the television series Blackadder, and his London home Syon House, in Middlesex, has just starred in the film of the Henry James novel The Golden Bowl. ' (Thanks to Georgiana for that news item) ------------- The following article in the 9th October, 2000 Daily Express, was also brought to my attention during the past week: ' Is Rickman prepared for his wizard role? (Picture of Alan Rickman with the caption: MAGIC: Alan Rickman is all set to play Harry Potter's tutor.) Devoted Harry Potter fans will be horrified. Despite being cast - as the schoolboy's sinister magic tutor Professor Snape - in Hollywood's 100 million Harry Potter film, Alan Rickman has failed to read all four of JK Rowling's tomes. At last week's launch of GQ Cool book, at Somerset House in London, Rickman confessed: I've only read the first one. Unfortunately I haven't had time to read the whole series." The film, based on Rowling's first installment, The Philosopher's Stone, may also present a wardrobe headache for the surly British thespian. "I have no idea about clothes or style" Rickman, 54, told me "I reach out to the rail and wear the first thing that falls into my hand." ' (Thanks to Sarah for that article!) One can just envisage Alan Rickman standing negligently next to a clothes-filled rack filled, one arm held out, palm up as he gazes at the ceiling, thinking of something else ------------------- I am keeping an eye out for a picture of Alan Rickman attired as Snape, but so far, filming inside the buildings is under tight security and nothing has been leaked. ------------------- Although this newsletter is a medium to mention Alan Rickman's accomplishments, its hard not to get involved in the other bits of gossip surrounding the filming of this hyped-up movie that he is a part of. Other bits of news that seeped out this week include: -- Richard Harris IS in the movie - first there were some talk of him in Harry Potter email/newsgroups checking into an Oxford Hotel, and then the news broke across the web on October 24, 2000. Articles of Richard Harris's appearance can be read at FilmForce (http://filmforce.ign.com/news/1569.html) and IMDB (http://us.imdb.com/WN?20001026#6) (Thanks to Amanda for the advanced info) -- Security is VERY tight surrounding filming which is currently taking place at Oxford in the UK. Students are upset at Oxford as they have to creep around when filming is taking place, and cameras are heavily frowned upon You can read more at EmpireOnline's website (http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=2651 -- John Cleese has been confirmed to play 'Nearly-headless Nick,' a good ghost who was killed when his head was nearly lopped off Full details at EmpireOnline (http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=2620), although confirmation came though Coming Soon (http://www.comingsoon.net/newsdisplay.shtml - news item liable to have been deleted) -- Author of Harry Potter, J. K. Rowling, gave a speech at the International Festival of Authors in Toronto (26th October, 2000). In front of 10,000 fans in the Sky Dome, Rowling was left stunned when accusations began to fly that encourages Satanism. She recovered enough to defend that she has no belief in the occult and any connection with Lucifer. Fortunately, it would appear that most of the world - and the children - don't side with the radical few ---------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: The items mentioned in this newsletter are collected from various sources on the web and other media. Every endeavor is made to verify rumors, but the author of the newsletter cannot be held responsible for rumors which turn out to be false. The Alan Rickman Newsletter is in no way connected to Alan Rickman or his agents, therefore the opinions and comments presented represent those of the respective author(s) only, and no harm is intended. Cybamuse Media Services owns the copyright to the Alan Rickman Newsletter and it is not to be re-produced on the web or in any other media format without prior consent from Cybamuse Media Services. If articles are quoted, the copyright for their content remains with the original authors. Cybamuse Media Services does not support any one online shop and all recommendations are not to be considered endorsed advertising. Please email RickmanFans at cybamuse.com for any comments or further information that you require. - From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 04:45:53 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:45:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR/parental consent References: <8tiesg+56uc@eGroups.com> <39FCEA95.30B62B48@texas.net> Message-ID: <008601c0422c$4e358b20$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4836 Sighs. Living on $80 a month is a pain. I myself am hoping that you are planning a date further away than 2 days from now (November 1st), in order to get a chance to replenish my resources! :) I will also have to bring along my three year old. Being a single mom, that's just a fact of life... His father can't be trusted to babysit for an hour, let alone longer, Grandma works, and so do the other relatives. Any half beds on the Knight-Bus? ;) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 9:27 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR/parental consent Susan McGee wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > > > I remember how it is: I was 15 IIRC when my mother wouldn't let me > > and my brother go out of the country to attend the World Science > > Fiction Convention (Worldcon) when it was in Toronto, even tho' > > Susan Fox was (is!) a year younger than me, and her mother let her > > go. > > Yeah, and I was 17 when my mother told me I couldn't go to Woodstock, > but I went anyway. Wow, Susan, and you seem like such a stick-to-the-rules, don't-challenge- the-status-quo type of gal! --Amanda, ducking and running eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Oct 30 04:08:57 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:08:57 -0000 Subject: HP TOUR: Itinerary Database Message-ID: <8tis8p+4feh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4837 I've started a list of possible tour destinations in the club Database. Anyone can add to the list. Please make a suggestion! -Jim Flanagan... ...who wants to attend the opening of Philosopher's Stone, scheduled for December 2001. From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Oct 30 04:08:33 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:08:33 -0600 Subject: In defense of Ron Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001029211939.00ab1510@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4838 One of the biggest complaints people on this list (especially H/H fans . . . but I won't go into that at the moment) have about Ron is the fact that he's fundamentally insecure. As a result, most of these people appear find Ron an obnoxious and unappealing character. However, I find this somewhat endearing. In my opinion, it makes him a much more realistic and understandable character than Harry. Thus, I've decided to state my opinion as to why I think Ron's insecurities are perfectly understandable and realistic (and semi-endearing). One of the things people don't seem to understand is how *difficult* (if not impossible) it is to form your own identity when you grow up overshadowed by another sibling. In Ron's case, he's been overshadowed by every single one of his siblings. As the only girl (and the youngest) Ginny inevitably gets attention. Fred & George get attention because they're constantly in trouble; Percy gets attention because he's *never* in trouble. Charlie was the Quidditch star and Bill, the oldest, was not only Head Boy, but is quite "cool." In Ron's case, this leaves him no arena to try that one of his siblings hasn't already tried. As a result, Ron does everything he can to make himself as *unlike* his brothers as possible. His lack of studying is probably a result of his attempting to distance himself from Percy -- I'm firmly convinced that he has the ability; and he follows the rules much more than Fred & George to. He's commented how he'll never be Head Boy (Bill has already done that) and (it appears) he doesn't even consider trying out for the Quidditch team (Charlie's already the Quidditch hero). Add to that the fact that he has a pushy, overbearing mother who lavishes attention (and gifts) on "perfect" Percy. He also has at least one brother (Percy) who probably goes, "well, if you did X, Y wouldn't happen." As a result, his insecurities are completely understandable. I'd be *astonished* if he had been able to form much self-confidence at all in that situation. All of us should know how hard it is to form any sort of an identity during your childhood without having six siblings that get all the attention. I assure you, I speak from experience. My entire life I felt (and still do upon occasion) feel over shadowed by my older sister, who had the looks, the grades and the ability to make friends I never did. And yes, she did tend to go "Well, if you did X, you'd be able to have Y happen" (I didn't take it well). It took me years to gain confidence (now I may have an ego problem ;) ) and I didn't really have my own identity until I was completely away from my family at college. A lot of Ron's actions are based on his insecurities. The fight with Harry, his desire for fame, his lack of studying . . . I guess what I'm trying to say is that Ron *will* gain self-confidence. It will just take time. And in his case he has to overcome lack of confidence in himself as well as the feeling that he can never measure up to his brothers. And just to irk the H/H fans . . . Hermione and Ron are both equally insecure IMO. Hermione's insecurities is what makes her such an (obnoxious) overachiever. That's why I can see H/R as a legitimate couple. DrMM *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com Most recent anime: Shoujo Kakume Utena movie From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Oct 30 04:55:19 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:55:19 -0600 Subject: Semi-OT bookends Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001029225342.00ab96b0@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4839 I'm just curious . . . I've been unable to find the WB Bookends at the only store remotely close to me and am looking at the ones on ebay . . . those of you who have bought them -- how much do they retail for? I *really* want a set, but don't want to pay twenty times more than they actually cost. DrMM (who loves the sorting hat keychain she got today) *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com Most recent anime: Shoujo Kakume Utena movie From klaatu at primenet.com Mon Oct 30 05:40:17 2000 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:40:17 -0700 Subject: HP TOUR In-Reply-To: <008601c0422c$4e358b20$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4840 For those with imagination and energy, who cannot manage to participate in a REAL Harry Potter tour, you may want to consider creating a "Virtual Tour." Another group I belong to, which discusses the 'Amelia Peabody Emerson' mystery novels by Elizabeth Peters, has created a fantastic imaginary world tour that is still in progress. Participants take on the identity of one of the novels' characters (even sundry cats and dead bodies are represented), or make up their own identity. The organizers of the tour have created their own murder mystery to liven up the tour, and anyone who wishes to introduce a sub-plot must consult with the organizers to make sure that the sub-plot does not interfere with the basic storyline. Tour members have created websites for each location visited, as well as fake newspaper clippings, and various journals and correspondence between the characters. The tour started out with a masquerade ball at the stately home of one of the characters, then moved on to New York where participants boarded an ocean liner to England, and so on. It's really well-done, and might be of interest to anyone here who has the imagination to create something similar for a 'Virtual Potter Tour' Check it out at: http://www.geocities.com/bunniff2/ From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 30 05:54:04 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 05:54:04 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001029211939.00ab1510@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8tj2ds+ofac@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4841 The only time I found Ron really obnoxious was when he had a fight with his best friend, a friend who had saved his sister's life, a friend who had demonstrated a willingness to risk his own life to save Ron too. I understand why he had the fight, he was jealous of Harry, and I understand why he was jealous, he was insecure; however understanding why somebody is obnoxious does not make him one bit less obnoxious. Harry was going through a very difficult time, he was scared to death he was either going to get killed in the first task of the tournament or even worse make a complete fool of himself, almost everybody at school hated him, he was depressed and needed moral support from Ron. He didn't get it. Harry didn't ask Ron to risk his life, he just asked him to be his friend and Ron refused. His only friend was Hermione. It's hard for me to get very weepy over Ron's early years, everybody has problems growing up but it seems to me Ron's childhood was wonderful, as close to being perfect as anybody ever had. Harry's childhood on the other hand was a pure undiluted nightmare, but that would never make him let down a friend when he needed it most. Harry has forgiven Ron so I guess I should too, but he should have the good grace to be thoroughly ashamed of himself. From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 30 06:43:56 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:43:56 -0000 Subject: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... In-Reply-To: <000101c04224$5d87a340$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8tj5bc+b6jj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4842 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > Steve, > What about the game where Harry is literally hanging on by his hands to the stick? The bubble isn't there for that. > > Dee That gets right back to the whole concept of intention as being vitally important in understanding the way magic works. In this case, the "bubble" protects where it's intended to protect. It doesn't protect from the various dangers of the game itself or there'd be no sport. In effect, the "bubble" charm knows the difference. It's not intelligence exactly, or at least not intelligence in the spell itself. It's the intention, the intellience, of the spell caster. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Oct 30 07:51:02 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:51:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... Message-ID: <20001030075102.4209.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4843 [...] > I want to know why the Starship does not get SEAT > belts! And I keep > being met with derision every time I bring it > up..but does everyone > always have to be flung around the bridge? Would you want to be strapped to a control-panel that goes of like Filibuster's Fireworks every time something appens to the ship. Those control-panels rely on plasma (which is VERY hot) for power-transfer, meaning there are tubes of plasma running through the panel. Having 50000-degree hot gas in your lap is bad. > Re: Quidditch robes -- robes may mean something > different....perhaps > there are ceremonial Quidditch robes that one > parades on the field > with (the ones Ludo Bagman proudly wears at the > world Quidditich > cups), and then there are the similarly colored > actual suits for > broomstick riding....JKR may cite "magic", but the > robes would > be aerodynamically contraindicated..yes? > The robes may be closed (like the monk's cowl), in which case they are kept in place by the rider's weight. They would also make it easier for the rider, I think, by making it possible for him simply to rest his feet (they will be hanging in the robes) _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Oct 30 08:22:13 2000 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:22:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OK, so how about those Brooms Sticks...... Message-ID: <20001030082213.16560.qmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4844 On second reading through, I see that my first paragraph may seem rather harsh. It was not the intention to sound berating in any way - it was meant to be taken as lighthearted. --- Christian Stub skrev: > > [...] > > I want to know why the Starship does not get SEAT > > belts! And I keep > > being met with derision every time I bring it > > up..but does everyone > > always have to be flung around the bridge? > > Would you want to be strapped to a control-panel > that > goes of like Filibuster's Fireworks every time > something appens to the ship. Those control-panels > rely on plasma (which is VERY hot) for > power-transfer, > meaning there are tubes of plasma running through > the > panel. Having 50000-degree hot gas in your lap is > bad. > [...] _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? F din egen, gratis @yahoo.no-adresse p http://mail.yahoo.no From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 30 09:33:23 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:33:23 -0000 Subject: Movie news Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4845 Amanda wrote: "Oh, and good job to Simon! Your catching the rumors of Richard Harris in Oxford was our first noted mention on the web (and Sally's pretty thorough)." Ah! I got that information from the Harry Potter Movie Site (http://harrypotter.eqrealm.com) - though I had heard the rumour that RH was in Oxford before that (used that web site for confirmation). The report (below) says something about them leaving early this week (the paper comes out on Friday). This confuses me as they seemed to leave at the end of last week - I will have a wander around later on my way to lectures but am sure they will have gone by now (been away for the weekend so did not have chance to see if anything happened then). Also if you go to the web address connected with the report below there is a picture of Daniel Radcliffe - I will warn you in advance that there is no way from the picture that you can guarantee it to be him, since the photographer seems to be miles away (hence why I have not uploaded the picture to out files section). Simon The following is from the Oxford Student (a student newspaper): http://www.oxfordstudent.com/00mt04/index.htm REPORTERS FROM THE Oxford Student beat the tight security on the set of the new Harry Potter mega film to grab these exclusive pictures. The huge crew has been shooting the $120 million movie in the Bod and at Christ Church since Saturday. The Oxford Student glimpsed Harry - actor Daniel Radcliffe - being rushed on set after he arrived in a Jaguar. A film insider revealed that 11 year-old Daniel has scooped 200,000 for the role. His friend Hermione, played by Oxfordshire schoolgirl Emma Watson, was spotted on location in the Bod on Monday. The Oxford Student also saw Irish legend Richard Harris, playing Hogwarts chief Albus Dumbledore, being rushed off location on Tuesday and driven away at high speed. Top Hollywood director Chris Columbus oversaw the action. Wandering round the film set dressed in gowns and uniform for the Hogwarts School, they and other actors have been protected by a tight wall of security. Scots actor Robbie Coltrane and Dame Maggie Smith are also expected to be filming during the week. Parts of Oxford's most famous visitor attractions have also been sealed off over the past week in an attempt to protect the secrecy of the film. One of the halls at the divinity school at the Bodleian was completely closed to visitors. However, another sneak viewing by Oxford Student reporters revealed a series of metallic hospital beds inside. The book's very last scene takes place in the hospital wing. At Christ Church, a cloister has been turned into a lake with the addition of a huge back-cloth. Custodians at the college have since stepped up security around one quad in an attempt to avert disruptions to filming. Students in the college's Meadows Quad have been warned to keep quiet at all times around the area to aid the smooth running of filming. Any attempts to take photographs have also been obstructed by keen security guards on the look-out for journalists. The film's stars were shielded with umbrellas as they left the set. Warner Brothers and Leavesden, the companies responsible for the film, have requested extra time at Christ Church and at the Bodleian to complete filming. They will now finish early next week. From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Mon Oct 30 10:32:02 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:32:02 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP TOUR: Itinerary Database In-Reply-To: <8tis8p+4feh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4846 There's already one running on the HPTour egroup -- we thought it might be better to set it up there in order to keep the tour traffic on this list to a minimum. --John ======================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com When I am an Evil Overlord...#169 If I have massive computer systems, I will take at least as many precautions as a small business and include things such as virus-scans and firewalls. ======================================== > From: "Jim Flanagan" > Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:08:57 -0000 > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP TOUR: Itinerary Database > > I've started a list of possible tour destinations in the club > Database. Anyone can add to the list. Please make a suggestion! > > -Jim Flanagan... > > ...who wants to attend the opening of Philosopher's Stone, scheduled > for December 2001. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Mon Oct 30 11:50:23 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 30 Oct 2000 11:50:23 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <972906623.80219@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4847 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Group Members/johnwalton.jpg Uploaded by : johnwalton at bigfoot.com Description : No, I don't normally dress like this... You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Group+Members/johnwalton%2Ejpg To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, johnwalton at bigfoot.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Oct 30 11:49:30 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:49:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR/parental consent References: <8tiesg+56uc@eGroups.com> <39FCEA95.30B62B48@texas.net> <008601c0422c$4e358b20$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <39FD604A.9B88AEB1@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 4848 Denise Rogers wrote: > Sighs. > > Living on $80 a month is a pain. I myself am hoping that you are planning a date further away than 2 days from now (November 1st), in order to get a chance to replenish my resources! > > :) > > I will also have to bring along my three year old. Being a single mom, that's just a fact of life... His father can't be trusted to babysit for an hour, let alone longer, Grandma works, and so do the other relatives. I guess I should have asked earlier, but I assume that our children are giong to be included with us - I'm certainly not going off to England without my Harry, who will be about 28 months then From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 12:18:46 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:18:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie stuff Message-ID: <20001030121846.15660.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4849 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > -- Author of Harry Potter, J. K. Rowling, gave a > speech at the International Festival of Authors in > Toronto (26th October, 2000). In front of 10,000 > fans > in the Sky Dome, Rowling was left stunned when > accusations began to fly that encourages Satanism. > She > recovered enough to defend that she has no belief in > the occult and any connection with Lucifer. > Fortunately, it would appear that most of the world > - > and the children - don't side with the radical few > ---------------------------------------- > I don't know where this article came from, but it is totally inaccurate. I was at the International Festival of Authors for JKR's reading (not speech - she read chapter 4 of GoF). The attendance was actually 15,000+, making it the largest public reading in history (which may put her into the Guiness Book of World Records). There were no accusations of Satanism at this event. What happened was, after reading chapter 4, she said she would take the time to answer some of the questions she'd been asked by reporters while in Toronto. One of these questions was: "Do you believe these books encourage Satanism?" Her response? "No, you are a lunatic." It was a fantastic reading and I loved her addition of the questions at the end (the reading went by too quickly and none of us were in a hurry to see her leave the stage). As I said in a brief report on the event (posted last week to this group) she was also asked if she thought the movie would ruin the books. Her response? "No, the readers aren't idiots." I loved it. Sorry to be repetitive (most of this was in my previous post on the event), but I didn't want to let the inaccuracies in the above article pass uncorrected. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Mon Oct 30 12:16:12 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:16:12 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off topic - Pocahontas References: <8tilu6+of0l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004201c0426b$33f98ba0$ad8701d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4850 ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 2:20 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Off topic - Pocahontas > 1595? - 1617 > > Pocahontas wasn't even her real name. It was a nickname meaning > Playful one" bestowed by her father. Her tribal name was Matoaka. > In 1617, John Rolfe was appointed secretary of the Virginia colony. > They boarded a ship for Virginia. While the ship was still anchored > in the Thames, Pocahontas became ill and died. Yup, at Gravesend, just down the road from me. She's buried at one of the churches there, but I don't know which one, and even if I did, it wouldn't help, as even the church authorities don't know where exactly she is buried. > Thomas, Pocahontas' son grew up in England raised by an uncle, and > returned to the U.S. as an adult. His descendants are said to have > included the Virginia Jeffersons, Lees, Randolphs and Marshalls. Actually, I was reading an article the other day about someone who is related to Pocahontas through her US ancestors, and can't for the devil of me remember who it was. Genealogy is fascinating stuff, though. Alix From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Oct 30 13:45:37 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 30 Oct 2000 05:45:37 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Semi-OT bookends Message-ID: <20001030134537.19236.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4851 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 30 14:05:29 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:05:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Semi-OT bookends References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001029225342.00ab96b0@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <39FD8029.9E309D59@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4852 Hi -- DrMM wrote: > I'm just curious . . . I've been unable to find the WB Bookends at the > only store remotely close to me and am looking at the ones on ebay . . > . those of you who have bought them -- how much do they retail for? I > *really* want a set, but don't want to pay twenty times more than they > actually cost. BTW, I definitely don't consider HP merchandise questions to be the least bit Off-Topic. I paid $29 plus tax for mine -- just like Voicelady said. As I posted a week or so ago, the Houston store had about 20 sets of those bookends. My offer to buy & mail a set to anyone who desperately wants one & can't find them stands open. But, I can't vouch that all 20 sets are still there -- it's been more than a week since I was there. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 30 14:49:24 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:49:24 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR/parental consent References: <8tiesg+56uc@eGroups.com> <39FCEA95.30B62B48@texas.net> <008601c0422c$4e358b20$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> <39FD604A.9B88AEB1@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <39FD8A73.AB3A89FD@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4853 heidi wrote: > I guess I should have asked earlier, but I assume that our children are giong to be included with us - I'm certainly not going off to England without my Harry, who will be about 28 months then Heidi, speak for the future in the future. I'm not about to go to England and spend all my time chasing my kids; I do that here without having to pay for it...! Maybe my oldest, who's five and might remember, but not the rest. --Amanda From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 30 14:40:56 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:40:56 -0600 Subject: Marketing Study re: HP Reading by Adults Message-ID: <39FD8878.4C74E03A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4854 Hi -- Well, while writing up the FAQ on the NY Times debacle and the universal cross-appeal of HP, I found the reference to the name of the marketing firm that did the study that shows 43% of all HP books are being bought by or for people over the age of 14. I found their website & sent a letter off to the guy who handles their book industry reports. He's already answered me! Wow! :--) The report for this particular study was based on consumer purchasing "diaries" completed by 12,000 households during a one-month period. These "diaries" addressed purchasing habits other than books (pharmaceuticals, flowers, etc.). He says there is a more detailed report called "NPD BookTrends: The World of Harry Potter" that contains more demographic info and is available for the very reasonable sum of $1000. I don't we'll be buying a copy to reference for the FAQs! :--) I wasn't entirely clear from his email if this report is based on the "diaries" study or something entirely different. But, in any case, I think we have the gist of where the figure was derived. I don't know much about marketing but 12,000 households over a one-month period strikes me as a fairly representational statistical sampling. Any thoughts? I've cut & pasted the full text of his reply to me below my sig. Penny > Penny, > > The NPD Group is one of the nation's largest market research/information > company. We have been collecting consumer purchase behavior within the > publishing industry for many years. NPD is recognized as the leading > information supplier within the industry. > > The information that the WSJ referenced was based on the results of diaries > that 12,000 households complete on a monthly basis. These households are > demographically representative of the 48 contiguous United States. They > are sent a letter inviting them to join our panel. The diary that they > complete contains other categories in addition to books (both adult trade and > childrens) including: flowers, toys, apparel, pharmaceutical, meat/poultry, etc. > > NPD has a report entitled NPD BookTrends The World of Harry Potter that > takes the information from both the adult trade and children's book categories. > We look at the age of recipient (who the book was intended to be read by), > gift buying, demographics, where the purchase was made, etc. The report is > available for $1000. > > For more information about NPD and the work we do in the book industry, log > onto our website www.npd.com (sometime on monday or tuesday, there will be a > link for this report) > > Please let me know if I can be of further assistance. > > Barrie Rappaport > Senior Account Executive > The NPD Group, Inc. > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Mon Oct 30 14:54:07 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:54:07 +0000 Subject: Tour In-Reply-To: <20001030121846.15660.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4855 Perhaps an earlier message got lost, but it might be an idea to move the discussions about Tour to the HPTour list which Nick (Baby Nick :D) started a few days ago. There are polls and databases for destinations and time of year on that group's site. http://www.egroups.com/group/HPTour Cheers, --John ======================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com When I am an Evil Overlord...#5 The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness. ======================================== From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 30 15:34:55 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:34:55 -0000 Subject: OT really In-Reply-To: <39F8EA52.1F57EC26@texas.net> Message-ID: <8tk4ev+6csu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4856 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > > I suspect that JKR figure that BATON was close enough to imply wand, > > since Beauxbaguette sounds like what you dunk in your soup. > > Please remit $56.97 for a new keyboard. The old one is still too sticky to > type on due to the Dr. Pepper I snorted on it.... > > --Amanda Sorry, Amanda. I have gone thru a lot of keyboards, myself. If you try to keep the sticky substances away from the computer when your caffeine level is low or when you are reading this group you will be better off, I find. Be especially careful when reading anything Neil writes. -- Joywitch From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 30 15:36:57 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:36:57 -0000 Subject: 7 Deadly Social Sins In-Reply-To: <8ta102+2a1f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tk4ip+k9kr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4857 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Maybe Peg could do these....? (hee, hee) > > > 7 Deadly Social Sins - Gandhi > > Politics without principle > Wealth without work > Commerce without morality > Pleasure withoutconscience > Education without character > Science without humanity > Worship without sacrifice These are wonderful, Susan. Where did you find them? I have read some of Gandhis speeches and writings but I have never come across them before. -- Joywitch From faerysneezes at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 15:48:27 2000 From: faerysneezes at yahoo.com (faerysneezes at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:48:27 -0000 Subject: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001029225342.00ab96b0@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8tk58b+tune@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4858 which retail stores are selling the Harry Potter merchandise? norevoli-- who has been away from this group for way too long --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > I'm just curious . . . I've been unable to find the WB Bookends at the only > store remotely close to me and am looking at the ones on ebay . . . those > of you who have bought them -- how much do they retail for? I *really* > want a set, but don't want to pay twenty times more than they actually cost. > > DrMM (who loves the sorting hat keychain she got today) > *~*~*~*~*~* > DrMM is found at drmm at f... > http://www.fuuko.com > Most recent anime: Shoujo Kakume Utena movie From faerysneezes at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 16:05:20 2000 From: faerysneezes at yahoo.com (faerysneezes at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:05:20 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tj2ds+ofac@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tk680+mgm4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4859 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > The only time I found Ron really obnoxious was when he had a fight > with his best friend, a friend who had saved his sister's life, a > friend who had demonstrated a willingness to risk his own life to > save Ron too. I understand why he had the fight, he was jealous of > Harry, and I understand why he was jealous, he was insecure; however > understanding why somebody is obnoxious does not make him one bit > less obnoxious. Harry was going through a very difficult time, he was > scared to death he was either going to get killed in the first task > of the tournament or even worse make a complete fool of himself, > almost everybody at school hated him, he was depressed and needed > moral support from Ron. He didn't get it. Harry didn't ask Ron to > risk his life, he just asked him to be his friend and Ron refused. > His only friend was Hermione. > > It's hard for me to get very weepy over Ron's early years, everybody > has problems growing up but it seems to me Ron's childhood was > wonderful, as close to being perfect as anybody ever had. Harry's > childhood on the other hand was a pure undiluted nightmare, but that > would never make him let down a friend when he needed it most. Harry > has forgiven Ron so I guess I should too, but he should have the good > grace to be thoroughly ashamed of himself. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 16:20:47 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:20:47 -0000 Subject: Off-Topic, but you asked, was: Peter (& Disney) In-Reply-To: <39FCECB0.C5F2CF5F@texas.net> Message-ID: <8tk74v+2cj0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4860 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > We apologize for existing, these days. > > > > > > > Who is we in this sentence Amanda? > > Any native of America not of Native American descent. > > > Civilizing the wilderness as in giving native americans blankets > > infected with smallpox in order to get rid of them? > > > > Very civilized. > > See, that's what I mean. Some decades ago, when the history of the frontier > was presented, it focused mainly on the positive aspects. Today, it focuses > mainly on the negative. We have yet to find a balance. This is like the wolf > debate, with the pro-wolf people saying no human has been killed by wolves, > etc., and the anti-wolf people saying they kill domestic animals en masse, > etc. Neither side is entirely correct, but neither is entirely > incorrect--they build emotional cases from selective evidence, to sway their > audience. A grey matter should not be presented as either white or black. My > comments were attempting to mark that in years past, it was white, now it > seems to be black, and we have yet to achieve grey. > > --Amanda I would suggest that we used to view American history from the viewpoint of the conquerors; now some of us view it from the standpoint of those who were the victims of genocidal warfare, and who are today still the victims of racism. The life expectancy of Native Americans in this country is well below that of non-natives. Susan From faerysneezes at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 16:30:34 2000 From: faerysneezes at yahoo.com (faerysneezes at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:30:34 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tk680+mgm4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tk7na+107l9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4861 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, faerysneezes at y... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > > The only time I found Ron really obnoxious was when he had a fight > > with his best friend, a friend who had saved his sister's life, a > > friend who had demonstrated a willingness to risk his own life to > > save Ron too. I understand why he had the fight, he was jealous of > > Harry, and I understand why he was jealous, he was insecure; however > > understanding why somebody is obnoxious does not make him one bit > > less obnoxious. Harry was going through a very difficult time, he > was > > scared to death he was either going to get killed in the first task > > of the tournament or even worse make a complete fool of himself, > > almost everybody at school hated him, he was depressed and needed > > moral support from Ron. He didn't get it. Harry didn't ask Ron to > > risk his life, he just asked him to be his friend and Ron refused. > > His only friend was Hermione. > > > > It's hard for me to get very weepy over Ron's early years, everybody > > has problems growing up but it seems to me Ron's childhood was > > wonderful, as close to being perfect as anybody ever had. Harry's > > childhood on the other hand was a pure undiluted nightmare, but that > > would never make him let down a friend when he needed it most. Harry > > has forgiven Ron so I guess I should too, but he should have the > good > > grace to be thoroughly ashamed of himself. I'm sure Ron was throughly ashamed with himself. Of course we don't see him *say* it... considering during the tent-reconciliation-scene in GoF (after having dealt with the horntail) Harry sort of prevents Ron into going into a proper apology. And its not like we can't see how sorry Ron is for his absence... we have some indications after that of Ron trying to make up for it by trying to boost Harry's confidence. And these characters aren't meant to be the perfect, they're meant to be like real people, and people tend to let things blind their vision. I'm sure everyone on this group has had an experience of when they know they had been acting like a real jerk. If not speaking to eachother is equivalent to being obnoxious then Harry has had his moments too. How about that whole fiasco with Crookshanks. Although the fight was primarily between Ron and Hermione Harry totally sided with Ron. I didn't see Harry trying to get the two of them to reconcile (like Hermione does in GoF by trying to get the two of them to talk to eachother). Hermione was so distraught that she was in tears at Hagrid's house about it. And i'm sure Hermione could have used both their support at that time too. The poor girl didn't have many people to default to (at least in GoF Harry had hermione there for him) And Hagrid had to tell Ron and Harry that she was feeling this way. I don't think that their childhoods (ie. Ron's being better than Harry's) should really matter at this point. People get obnoxious regardless of whether they're the king of the world or merely underappreciated. To tell you the truth I'm pretty surprised that its taken four years for them to have an actual fight. Its quite a natural thing to happen. Friends are allowed to have squabbles. And most times these squabbles are a result of one person being obnoxious or totally ignorant. It happens. Don't go and hold out a grudge against Ron because he isn't perfect norevoli From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Oct 30 16:26:10 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:26:10 -0000 Subject: 7 Deadly Social Sins In-Reply-To: <8tk4ip+k9kr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tk7f2+mg52@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4862 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > Maybe Peg could do these....? (hee, hee) > > > > > > 7 Deadly Social Sins - Gandhi > > > > Politics without principle > > Wealth without work > > Commerce without morality > > Pleasure withoutconscience > > Education without character > > Science without humanity > > Worship without sacrifice > > These are wonderful, Susan. Where did you find them? I have read > some of Gandhis speeches and writings but I have never come across > them before. > > -- Joywitch Well, you know, I read Gandhi even before HP, just for pleasure. (Yeah, right -- in my previous life B. K. Before Kids)... I am mildly embarrased to admit that I saw it on a poster in a catalogue (looking at catalogues is my other highly intellectual pursuit) Susan From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 30 16:32:34 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:32:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] In defense of Ron References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001029211939.00ab1510@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <39FDA2A2.682F8812@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4863 Hi -- DrMM wrote: > One of the biggest complaints people on this list (especially H/H fans > . . . but I won't go into that at the moment) have about Ron is the > fact that he's fundamentally insecure. As a result, most of these > people appear find Ron an obnoxious and unappealing character. > However, I find this somewhat endearing. In my opinion, it makes him > a much more realistic and understandable character than Harry. Thus, > I've decided to state my opinion as to why I think Ron's insecurities > are perfectly understandable and realistic (and semi-endearing). I don't know that I have any "complaints" about any of the characters, including Ron. I have noted that he is a fundamentally insecure person. This seems to me to be a fairly factual thing, rather than a subjective value-based assessment. For the record, I do *not* dislike Ron or find him to be "obnoxious or unappealing." I won't speak for all the H/H shippers on that score, but I will clear up any confusion about my own feelings. I like Ron very much. His sarcastic sense of humor is a great (necessary?) addition to the Trio. He has many endearing characteristics -- although I don't necessarily find the "display" of his insecurity (i.e. the fight with Harry) to be particularly endearing. > One of the things people don't seem to understand is how *difficult* > (if > not impossible) it is to form your own identity when you grow up > overshadowed by another sibling. *I* do understand this. I'm the oldest child, and while my sister would tell you that she felt overshadowed by my intellectual successes her entire life, I would tell you that I felt just as overshadowed by her social successes. Virtually anyone who had a sibling would understand that problem. I would wager even "only" children have problems forging their own identity. I think most of us *understand* that issue Dr MM. > (it appears) he doesn't even consider trying out for the Quidditch > team (Charlie's already the Quidditch hero). Well, Fred & George are on the team, despite Charlie's earlier successes. I've always thought it odd that Ron, the super-fan of Quidditch, isn't on the team or a reserve player or something. I'll admit that my conclusion was that he didn't have the talent . . . but maybe that's unfair. Maybe he's just avoiding the game on the grounds that 3 of his brothers have already taken that route. > Add to that the fact that he has a pushy, overbearing mother who > lavishes attention (and gifts) on "perfect" Percy. Wow! Interesting take on Mrs. Weasley -- I've always thought Molly was pretty much even-handed with her kids. I do think she takes alot of pride in Percy's accomplishments but . . . I think Percy is the one child who is most like her. It's probably natural that she has extra-special feelings for him because of that -- or they have a "bond" because of that. > As a result, his insecurities are completely understandable. I'd be > *astonished* if he had been able to form much self-confidence at all > in > that situation. *I* at least have never argued that his insecurities are not understandable. But just because I *understand* them doesn't mean that it makes any sense to me to believe that his insecurities wouldn't come into play & cause friction if he & Hermione attempted a romantic relationship. > A lot of Ron's actions are based on his insecurities. The fight with > Harry, his desire for fame, his lack of studying . . . I guess what > I'm > trying to say is that Ron *will* gain self-confidence. Well, we all hope so . . . I think it's more accurate to say that Ron will in all likelihood eventually gain self-confidence, self-esteem, etc. *If* he does, then one of my major objections to a pairing of R & H would be eliminated. But, I don't think he'll gain self-esteem by dating a super-star who overshadows him yet again. I think the only way that relationship works is if he gets the self-esteem *first* and then dates Hermione. But, even then . . . I still think H & H are better-suited for one another. :--) > And just to irk the H/H fans . . . Hermione and Ron are both equally > insecure IMO. Hermione's insecurities is what makes her such an > (obnoxious) overachiever. That's why I can see H/R as a legitimate > couple. Well, first, I'm curious why you want to pair an *obnoxious over-achiever* (your words) with your favorite character (or I assume you identify most strongly with Ron)? If Hermione is so bossy, obnoxious & distasteful to you, then why do you want to pair her off with Ron? Your past posts have indicated that you have strong issues with both Harry (inconsiderate) and Hermione (obnoxious braggart) -- so *why* wouldn't you want them to just end up together, leaving Ron to find someone "better"? I've never said Hermione doesn't have any insecurities. I think she and Harry both have their own insecurities. But, I think Ron is fundamentally insecure. Harry & Hermione, IMO, just have normal moments of insecurity -- periodic bursts of normal adolescent self-doubts. You've said several times before that Hermione is a braggart . . . obnoxious . . . what have you. In each case, I've asked you for references proving Hermione brags about her intellectual accomplishments or "shows off." You've never responded. She *is* always eager to give the right answer .... but this isn't the same thing as "bragging" IMO. We only know she's top of the class because Lucius Malfoy says so (belittling Draco in CoS). I don't have the impression that she "shows off" -- some people interpret her having the right answers as "showing off," but I think that she's showing the reverse. I think it shows she has the self-confidence to assert herself in the classroom, which is a positive thing in my mind. Especially since we hear & read so much about young girls & women not being assertive in the classroom. I don't have the impression she spends time outside the classroom telling Ron & Harry about her grades, etc. As a side note, you posted a very long post earlier this month about Harry's "inconsiderate" nature. Several of us took the time to respond to your points about that . . . . and well, we never heard anything back from you. Just my opinion, but if you post on a subject that is somewhat controversial & then people take obvious time to respond to your points in a rational non-argumentative way & then you never even come back with "Sorry but I still disagree," it makes a bit hard for people to justify setting aside some time to respond to anything else that you write in the future. I'm not advocating responding to people who are rude or argumentative in their responses -- in my mind, they can clearly be ignored. Maybe it's just me (), but I was hoping to get some sort of response considering I spent probably 30 minutes or more responding to your points. Then again, maybe that's just my own fault. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 30 16:46:38 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:46:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: In defense of Ron References: <8tk7na+107l9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FDA5EE.5E27A826@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4864 Hi -- faerysneezes at yahoo.com wrote: > If not speaking to eachother is equivalent to being obnoxious then > Harry has had his moments too. How about that whole fiasco with > Crookshanks. Although the fight was primarily between Ron and > Hermione Harry totally sided with Ron. I didn't see Harry trying to > get the two of them to reconcile (like Hermione does in GoF by trying > to get the two of them to talk to eachother). Am I the only one who's noticed this? PoA -- Chapter 13 (pages 264-65 in US version): "Only one person wasn't joining in the festivities. .... Harry broke away from the table where Fred and George had started juggling butterbeer bottles and went over to her. ..... 'Come on, Hermione, come and have some food,' Harry said, looking over at Ron and wondering whether he was in a good enough mood to bury the hatchet. ..... She glanced over at Ron too. 'He doesn't want me to join in.' There was no arguing with htis, as Ron chose that moment to say loudly, 'If Scabbers hadn't just been eaten, he could have had some of those Fudge Flies. He used to really like them ---' Hermione burst into tears. Before Harry could say or do anything, she tucked the enormous book under her arm, and still sobbing, ran toward the staircase to the girls' dormitories and out of sight. 'Can't you give her a break?' Harry asked Ron quietly. 'No,' said Ron flatly. 'If she just acted like she's sorry ....' _____________________________________________ Don't know about you, but that's pretty clear evidence to me that Harry no longer held any grudge against Hermione, he wanted her friendship back & he was actively trying to make the two of them make up. Ron is stubborn in this case too. > To tell you the truth I'm pretty surprised that its taken four years > for them to have an actual fight. Its quite a natural thing to > happen. Friends are allowed to have squabbles. And most times these > squabbles are a result of one person being obnoxious or totally > ignorant. It happens. I agree completely with this! I'd been thinking to myself that it was completely unrealistic that they'd never had a squabble of any sort. The fight in GoF lasted longer than it shold have & was really largely unnecessary but . . . on the whole, I thought it was about time really. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 30 18:02:15 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:02:15 -0000 Subject: Ron, Hermione and insecurities (this is probably quite long) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4865 Penny wrote: "She [Hermione] *is* always eager to give the right answer .... but this isn't the same thing as "bragging" IMO. We only know she's top of the class because Lucius Malfoy says so (belittling Draco in CoS). I don't have the impression that she "shows off" -- some people interpret her having the right answers as "showing off," but I think that she's showing the reverse. I think it shows she has the self-confidence to assert herself in the classroom, which is a positive thing in my mind. Especially since we hear & read so much about young girls & women not being assertive in the classroom. I don't have the impression she spends time outside the classroom telling Ron & Harry about her grades, etc." Lucius is not the only one to say that Hermione is top of the class. It is mentioned at other time throughout the books, but I am sure that not one of those occasions is because Hermione has mentioned it. I see Hermione as being insecure. The reason she seems to know all the answers is because she works hard. She seems to work hard because she has a large fear of failure. She shows the obsessive 'I am going to fail' when revising for exams. She has got better by GoF, but still spends most of her time working and feeling that she has to put that work in. I get the impression that Hermione believes that because she has become top of the class she must now work very hard to maintain that position and she would be very upset if she did not remain as the top student. Another problem I have with Hermione is that she is constantly trying to organize the others. In PS she draws up revision timetables for them. She nags at Harry when he is not working towards the tasks in GoF. Yes I know that Ron and Harry do need convincing to do their work, but at the end of the day it is their decision and they should be left to choose about how much they do. Penny wrote: "Well, Fred & George are on the team, despite Charlie's earlier successes. I've always thought it odd that Ron, the super-fan of Quidditch, isn't on the team or a reserve player or something. I'll admit that my conclusion was that he didn't have the talent . . . but maybe that's unfair. Maybe he's just avoiding the game on the grounds that 3 of his brothers have already taken that route." It is fairly obvious that the twins have reasonable, though not great, brooms. It is mentioned that Ron's broom is 'overtaken by butterflies'. This could be a case of a vicious cycle. Ron does not have a good enough broom so is not good enough to get onto the team. Because he is not good enough to get on the team he cannot justify asking his parents for a better broom. So he cannot get on the team. His pride would not allow him to ask to borrow a broom from one of the others - so he may never get on the team, even though he may be good enough. Hopefully he will get some opportunity to show his Quidditch ability in the future. His build suggests that he may be a good keeper. His seems to have good logical reasoning and forward thought to work out what moves others will take. On top of this he is tall which makes reaching the Quaffle much easier. There is a space in that position - so who knows - Ron for Gryffindor keeper. Penny wrote: "I've never said Hermione doesn't have any insecurities. I think she and Harry both have their own insecurities. But, I think Ron is fundamentally insecure. Harry & Hermione, IMO, just have normal moments of insecurity -- periodic bursts of normal adolescent self-doubts." I disagree here. I think all three suffer from childhood insecurities and I think that they all can grow out of these insecurities. Ron just needs an opportunity to realise he does have talents and is good at something - it just remains to be seen what this skill is. He has been overshadowed by his brothers at Quidditch and schoolwork and now has the same problem with Harry and Hermione in these areas respectively. Most of Harry's insecurities stem from his lack of love as a youngster. He should get over this when he realises that others are there for him and he can trust them with everything. He has still not admitted to Ron and Hermione that the sorting hat suggested putting him in Slytherin. Norevoli wrote: "> If not speaking to each other is equivalent to being obnoxious then Harry has had his moments too. How about that whole fiasco with Crookshanks. Although the fight was primarily between Ron and Hermione Harry totally sided with Ron. I didn't see Harry trying to get the two of them to reconcile (like Hermione does in GoF by trying to get the two of them to talk to each other)." Penny replied with: "Am I the only one who's noticed this? PoA -- Chapter 13 (pages 264-65 in US version) Don't know about you, but that's pretty clear evidence to me that Harry no longer held any grudge against Hermione, he wanted her friendship back & he was actively trying to make the two of them make up. Ron is stubborn in this case too." I am not sure that Harry ever really held the grudge against Hermione. He was definitely upset with her and I think that Hermione took this to mean that he was siding with Ron. She then spent time ignoring and avoiding them. Yes Harry makes little effort to go and find her but I get the impression that he thinks that she will not want him as a friend anymore. I see the two of them not being friends as just the result of a series of misinterpretations of the actions of the other. They both seem to have the impression that the other will not want them as a friend and the cycle of not talking starts. In the occasions where Ron is upset with Harry and Hermione he seems stubborn to forgive. It takes a large jolt to get Ron to come to his senses. Eggplant wrote: "The only time I found Ron really obnoxious was when he had a fight with his best friend, a friend who had saved his sister's life, a friend who had demonstrated a willingness to risk his own life to save Ron too. Harry was going through a very difficult time, he was scared to death he was either going to get killed in the first task of the tournament or even worse make a complete fool of himself, almost everybody at school hated him, he was depressed and needed moral support from Ron. He didn't get it. Harry didn't ask Ron to risk his life, he just asked him to be his friend and Ron refused. His only friend was Hermione." The past is unimportant in friendships. It is the present that determines where they go. It is worth noting that Ron also risked his life to save Ginny and was prepared to risk his life for Harry. He sacrificed himself in the chess game in PS and I am not certain that he was sure that he would recover easily from that. In PoA he has a broken leg but still tries to help Harry when they think that Harry's life is at risk after he has attacked Sirius. In GoF Ron has to believe that either Harry lies to him or that Dumbledore is not as powerful as people make him out to be. Either Dumbledore has made a mistake by allowing Harry's name to get into the cup or Harry is refusing to say how he got his name in. Written like this the choice becomes less clear. Do we really want to admit, or even know, that Dumbledore makes mistakes? Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione? I can see problems with both of these. But I think that we could find problems with any potential pairing. I know examples and counterexamples for why both of these partnerships are perfect or doomed to failure. At the moment R/H seems more likely to happen in the canon (maybe even it could be said that it will happen - it depends on how you interpret JKR's comments) but will it last? Relationships, and even friendships, are all about living with the idiosyncratic nature of others. All three of the triad are prone to doing stupid things. Will this ever change? Penny wrote: " I was hoping to get some sort of response considering I spent probably 30 minutes or more responding to your points. Then again, maybe that's just my own fault." One of the first rules of newsgroups and message boards is that you may not get a reply to a message. I know it can be frustrating to spend ages on a message and get no response but this is just a fact of life. Simon From vderark at bccs.org Mon Oct 30 18:21:35 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:21:35 -0000 Subject: Whither Gryffindor Quidditch? Message-ID: <8tke7f+3kg3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4866 What's going to happen with the Gryffindor Quidditch team now that Wood is gone? There seems to be no provision for training new players or even building a little depth to the team's bench. In fact, there apparently IS no bench, since when Harry was in the hospital wing, the Gryffindors had to play a person short. So what happens now? The past year was a wash, since there was no Quidditch. That means no one has been training. Wood is gone, so this coming year someone else will have to be the captain. I can't imagine that it will be either of the twins, so probably Alicia, Katie, or Angelina. And the team will need a new Keeper, of course. Someone mentioned that Ron would make a good Keeper. I second that motion (and I think Ron deserves a shot at some personl glory). As for brooms, where did Harry get HIS first broom? It just turned up at breakfast one day. So let McGonagall or whomever buy Ron a nice broom too. Strange way to run a sports team, though...Everyone's totally invested in Quidditch, but they don't invest in creating a real team... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Oct 30 18:25:36 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:25:36 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tj2ds+ofac@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tkef0+6avd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4867 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > The only time I found Ron really obnoxious was when he had a fight > with his best friend, a friend who had saved his sister's life, a > friend who had demonstrated a willingness to risk his own life to > save Ron too. I understand why he had the fight, he was jealous of > Harry, and I understand why he was jealous, he was insecure; however > understanding why somebody is obnoxious does not make him one bit > less obnoxious. I guess that's where we disagree. I've always found that understanding someone's motivations is fundamental to my perception of the character. I think that's why I have the tendency to get annoyed with Hermione. I can't understand her motivations the way I've been able to see Ron's. IMO, her personality hasn't been explored enough for me to understand. I don't think that all her actions are driven by the desire for academic success (although I'm sure that's part of it). I don't know what *else* drives her so I find myself irritated. And just because I say I understand someone's actions doesn't mean I think they're justified. For the record, my favorite character is Snape (not Ron). I think Snape is a complete and utter bastard. However, because I believe that there's more to *why* he acts like a complete and utter bastard, I find him a fascinating character. Therefore, I can't loathe and despise him the way a lot of people (including one of my best friends) do. And remember, I've never said that Ron was justified in what he did. I've just tried to say that his actions, considering his childhood, is understandable. I also think that Ron would have come and apoligized sooner had Harry not done things that exacerbated the situation. In the scene in the common room, it appeared that Ron seemed ready to talk to Harry again (and perhaps apoligize) until Harry started yelling at him. And again, I understand why Harry's upset with Ron at the moment too -- so don't take that as an insult to Harry. > It's hard for me to get very weepy over Ron's early years, everybody > has problems growing up but it seems to me Ron's childhood was > wonderful, as close to being perfect as anybody ever had. Harry's > childhood on the other hand was a pure undiluted nightmare, but that > would never make him let down a friend when he needed it most. Harry > has forgiven Ron so I guess I should too, but he should have the good > grace to be thoroughly ashamed of himself. I'm quite positive Ron was ashamed of himself. I think that also contributed to his reluctance to speak to Harry again after the initial fight. People with tempers usually calm down quickly (although Ron does seem to hold a grudge) and recognize that they made an ass out of themselves (note: this also comes from experience). And when you realize that, it's terribly hard to a) admit it and b) speak to the person and as for apoligizing . . . that's even worse. As for the difference between Ron and Harry's childhood, I'm not saying Harry didn't have a horrible one or Ron didn't have a good one . . . I'm just saying that Ron's childhood wasn't perfect, and that a lot of Ron's insecurites are a result of his "almost perfect" childhood. One thing I find interesting in the Ron/Harry friendship is the differences in their perceptions. I think Harry has an idealistic view of Ron's childhood. He sees Mrs. Weasley as the ideal, loving mother and Ron's family in general as something he never had, and longs for it. He is unable to recognize that Ron's family *isn't* perfect. As a result, I don't think he can understand Ron's point of view. On the other hand, Ron has an idealistic view of Harry's fame. He doesn't realize that there are problems, as well as advantages, of being famous. He also doesn't see that Harry resents his fame to a certain extent because to Harry, it's a reminder of the family he lost. Ron resents his family because to him, they're a reminder of the attention he never had. Harry has the attention he's always desired and so he envys it. Harry resents his fame because to him, it represents the family he never had. Ron has the family life Harry never had, so Harry's envious of it. There's a wonderful irony in that. And for the record, I think I'd like Harry *much* better if I could see some longer lasting effect of the emotional trauma of his childhood. Once Harry's gone from the Dursley's he doesn't seem to be affected by them at all. It all seems so like a caricature that I have a hard time taking it seriously. Wow. I'm verbose today. :) DrMM From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Oct 30 18:33:37 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:33:37 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tk7na+107l9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tkeu1+b81k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4868 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, faerysneezes at y... wrote: <> This is sorta-halfway my point. In my opinion, people seem to think Harry's the perfect child; everything he does is right and none of his actions are a mistake. . . I don't think he is and that's also part of the reason why I get irritated with him. So, when they insult Ron for not being perfect, I'm inexplicably annoyed. Then I tend to write long posts about why Harry's not perfect and why Ron acts the way he does. . . And I *do* think Ron's underappreciated. DrMM From lrcjestes at msn.com Mon Oct 30 18:43:31 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:43:31 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Tour References: Message-ID: <006701c042a1$4ef327a0$7443ddcf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4869 > Perhaps an earlier message got lost, but it might be an idea to move the > discussions about Tour to the HPTour list which Nick (Baby Nick :D) started > a few days ago. There are polls and databases for destinations and time of > year on that group's site. > > http://www.egroups.com/group/HPTour > I know I'm supposed to move this discussion on over to the HPTour group. Just thought I'd offer something here, because it might encourage the teens to think on it and sign up for the HPTour group....Anyway If I actually go on this thing, I thought I'd offer to chaperone a teen that might want to go but whose parent might not let them without a responsible adult. It should probably be a teen in the northeast, so we can meet well before hand (I live in Massachusetts)...(Alicia / Sue...maybe?)...maybe we could get other adults to chaperone some of the teens..... Just thought I'd offer that here, because it might encourage the teens to think on it and sign up for the HPTour group.... ok all future HP tour comments will be on that group... carole From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Oct 30 18:53:00 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:53:00 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <39FDA2A2.682F8812@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tkg2c+a9ch@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4870 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer < pennylin at s...> wrote: << As a side note, you posted a very long post earlier this month about Harry's "inconsiderate" nature. Several of us took the time to respond to your points about that . . . . and well, we never heard anything back from you. Just my opinion, but if you post on a subject that is somewhat controversial & then people take obvious time to respond to your points in a rational non-argumentative way & then you never even come back with "Sorry but I still disagree," it makes a bit hard for people to justify setting aside some time to respond to anything else that you write in the future. I'm not advocating responding to people who are rude or argumentative in their responses -- in my mind, they can clearly be ignored. Maybe it's just me (), but I was hoping to get some sort of response considering I spent probably 30 minutes or more responding to your points. Then again, maybe that's just my own fault. >>> Um, yes, well . . . I'll respond to the rest of the post later once I get home and have access to my e-mail (instead of using egroups at work when I should be working . . .) With the volume of this list, combined with real life work and my time- consuming classes (huge amounts of reading and writing), I find it difficult to keep up with and respond to the posts that I'd like to. By the time I'm ready, the thread is long gone. I will admit to not responding (did I respond at all?) to that thread. Sorry. I was going to respond, but when my teachers decided to dump three tests and one paper on me in one week that thread got dumped off to the side. I suppose I could go back and look at it now . . . but it's a bit late. I'm fully prepared to respond to this thread right now though. >:) And btw, thirty minutes?!? DrMM From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Oct 30 19:07:37 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:07:37 -0000 Subject: Messages Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4871 Dr MM wrote: " I find it difficult to keep up with and respond to the posts that I'd like to. By the time I'm ready, the thread is long gone. I suppose I could go back and look at it now . . . but it's a bit late." If you want to respond to an old message or thread then do so. If it is on-topic for the group then no one can have any real objections for the thread being revived. Some threads have many messages over a short period of time and other are spread out over long periods of time. This is to be expected. Dr MM wrote: "And btw, thirty minutes?!?" I can quite believe this. The message I sent earlier took me at least 20 minutes to write. Simon From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 30 19:28:34 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:28:34 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tk7na+107l9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tki52+kh47@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4872 Faerysneezes: >How about that whole fiasco with Crookshanks. Although the fight was >primarily between Ron and Hermione Harry totally sided with Ron. That's because Ron was in the right this time, he was worried that a creature he loved would be injured or killed but Hermione didn't seem to give a damn what happened to Ron's pet. >I didn't see Harry trying to get the two of them to reconcile I did. >To tell you the truth I'm pretty surprised that its taken four years >for them to have an actual fight. Its quite a natural thing to >happen. Little arguments sure but this was something that was big, long lasting, totally unjustified, and hurt Harry a lot. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 20:54:54 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:54:54 -0600 Subject: Snape and dreams... Message-ID: <010201c042b3$b36517e0$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4873 I think I had too much Halloween, tricker-treating and fantasy in general this week. I woke up in the middle of a dream. I dreamt that Hogwarts was a day school (I think that's what you call them in the UK?), and I was both Lupin and a student at the same time. If you've dreamt things like that it makes sense, if not, don't worry about it! The time frame was post-Voldie, but it was like Germany after WW2--or like the TV-series Dark Angel--where the buildings were more shells, and people were living poorer. No, I don't know who won the battle. Snape taught the last class of the day. The math class (thanks for everyone on the list who got my mind on THAT subject subconsciously) had just finished, and Lupin taught it. The class was in the attic of an old building (like a church from the 1700's that is close to downtown Akron in the University complex), and the last thing he said to the students before the holidays began was "Get out! Get out of my school!" He was shooing the students out the front door, doing everything but throwing them out by their ears. Meanwhile, somehow Lupin had rescued a fox from Snape's clutches, and was walking with a girl, with it hidden under his robes. He wanted to ask the fox questions about Snape's loyalty and why AD trusted him, but had to wait until he was alone--he didn't want her knowing he could talk "animal". They were walking along a torn up cobblestone sidewalk when I woke. Tell me this list hasn't effected me? Or is it that I am going crazy (Which I really do fear I am!) lol. Dee For the record, my favorite character is Snape (not Ron). I think Snape is a complete and utter bastard. However, because I believe that there's more to *why* he acts like a complete and utter bastard, I find him a fascinating character. Therefore, I can't loathe and despise him the way a lot of people (including one of my best friends) do. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Oct 30 20:28:20 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:28:20 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001029211939.00ab1510@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001030122648.0255e640@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4874 At 10:08 PM 10/29/00 -0600, DrMM wrote: >Add to that the fact that he has a pushy, overbearing mother who lavishes >attention (and gifts) on "perfect" Percy. She even lavishes more affection on Harry (not even one of her offspring) than on Ron. I can see how that would really hurt. -- Dave From joym999 at aol.com Mon Oct 30 20:38:50 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:38:50 -0000 Subject: NPR Interview & HP Merchandise Stuff In-Reply-To: <8tdef8+k945@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tkm8q+nen2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4875 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "smitster " wrote: > I learned from this report that the New York Times had HP related > article on 1 January 2000. It was in their what-will-life-be-like- in- > 2020 (or some such date) fictional version of the front page. I'm > going to head to the library tomorrow to see if I can get this, but > it sounded rather funny. The headline was something like Quidditch > World Cup Won By Woman. Serves me right for being on holiday at that > time of year! If I find it, I'll transcribe it. Actually, it was a parody (rare for the New York Times) front page for Friday, January 1, 2100. One of the articles was called: With Brooms Flying, Iceland Takes the Cup There is a photo of a woman holding a broomstick, dressed in some sort of skisuit-looking uniform holding a gold cup. The photo caption is: Helga Karinsdottir outwitted Europes defense and grabbed the snitch. The first paragraph reads: BANGALORE, India, 13:20 U.T.C. -- With foxlike cunning and dazzling broomsmanship, Iceland won the first World Quidditch Cup today, defeating the United States of Europe, 200 to 90, in this technology capital s Olympic Stadium. The rest of the article is mildly funny. I will type out the whole thing if anyone really wants me to. I dont think you will be able to get it online without paying for it; the NYTimes free archives only go back a week or so. -- Joywitch, who saved that section of the Times for some reason. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Oct 30 20:54:45 2000 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:54:45 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP TOUR Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.20001030205445.009315a0@popmail.dircon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4876 At 21:58 10/28/2000 -0000, Nick wrote: >Hi all > >Just got back from a Coach trip to EuroDisney, so have been reading >the last few days mail. ...and I'm just back from Madrid... *** I was dreading a huge stack of HP messages to get through, but it was fairly modest (for this club it was, anyway). Hey! This tour idea seems really popular, so I'll nip over to the club Nick has created for further discussion. Nick said: >Neil could you do London? Then perhaps I could do Chepstow and act >as tour coordinator (oh no... big role, anyone else wants to >volunteer?) *** I'm happy to look into the London end of things. I'll give it some deep thought once the ever-elusive FAQs are out of the way. Neil Flying-Ford-Anglia ***************************************** "Then, dented, scratched and steaming, the car rumbled off into the darkness, its rear lights blazing angrily" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] ***************************************** From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 30 20:59:17 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:59:17 -0000 Subject: Ron, Hermione and insecurities (this is probably quite long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8tknf5+hqmo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4877 >Simon J. Branford >The past is unimportant in friendships. Well that's certainly untrue, the past is the only thing we know anything about. >It is worth noting that Ron also risked his life to save Ginny and >was prepared to risk his life for Harry. He sacrificed himself in >the chess game in PS and I am not certain that he was sure that he >would recover easily from that. In PoA he has a broken leg but still >tries to help Harry when they think that Harry's life is at risk >after he has attacked Sirius. Yes, there is no doubt Ron acted very bravely and with great nobility on those occasions, that's why it seemed so out of character when he started acting like such a petty jealous ass. >In GoF Ron has to believe that either Harry lies to him or that >Dumbledore is not as powerful as people make him out to be. Either >Dumbledore has made a mistake by allowing Harry's name to get into >the cup or Harry is refusing to say how he got his name in. Written >like this the choice becomes less clear. Do we really want to admit, >or even know, that Dumbledore makes mistakes? You're giving reasons why Ron was an ass, perhaps your theory is correct, perhaps not, it doesn't matter, he's still an ass, he still unjustly called his best friend a liar. I happen to think that's a very big deal, I think it would permanently poison most friendships, it's just lucky for Ron that Harry has a forgiving nature. Few people are fortunate enough to have a friend as good as Harry and Ron almost threw it away. From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Oct 30 21:31:40 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:31:40 -0600 Subject: Ron & Harry Fight References: <8tknf5+hqmo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FDE8BC.15176F25@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4878 Hi -- eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > You're giving reasons why Ron was an ass, perhaps your theory is > correct, perhaps not, it doesn't matter, he's still an ass, he still > unjustly called his best friend a liar. I happen to think that's a > very big deal, I think it would permanently poison most friendships, > it's just lucky for Ron that Harry has a forgiving nature. Few people > are fortunate enough to have a friend as good as Harry and Ron almost > threw it away. I really don't think it was as serious as all that! Yes, Ron's accusations are serious but probably not enough to "permanently poison" their friendship. I mean . . . yes, I agree that Ron was the one largely at fault for that fight. I do think that since Hermione picked up from the look on Harry's face that he didn't submit his name into the Goblet, Ron should have come to the same conclusion. I also think it's possible that Hermione said, "Hey look! Harry didn't put his name in the Goblet, and he's really worried that someone has it in for him." If that's the case, then Ron's stubborn insistence on not making up with Harry is more serious. On the other hand, I have the distinct impression that Hermione was spending virtually all her time with Harry, so maybe she made no real effort to try & explain things to Ron. She did seem to think it was something they should work out between themselves. I still think she largely chose sides to some extent by spending all or most of her time with Harry. But, in general, they were both at fault for prolonging the estrangement. Ron did start the fight but Harry contributed to it being strung out. I think it's reasonably understandable why Harry prolonged the fight (Ron had just interrupted his conversation with Sirius, the only person outside of Hermione who he's able to confide in & possibly his only chance against the dragon he thinks). His outburst of anger at Ron at that point is definitely understandable IMO. So, my take on it is: (a) Ron was a prat for starting the argument, (b) Ron should have known himself or through Hermione that he was being a prat, and if he did, then he's more stubborn & insecure than we thought, (c) Harry contributed to prolonging their fight with his outburst at Ron and his refusal to try & talk to Ron. They're *both* stubborn. But, it wasn't, IMO, ever as threatening to their friendship as eggplant asserts. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 21:37:42 2000 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:37:42 -0000 Subject: The Wizard Hospital Message-ID: <8tkpn6+p368@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4879 I just thought you might find this interesting- The wizards hospital where Neville's are is called St. Mungo's Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries. Here is some background info on St. Mungo http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/plaza/aaj50/mungo.htm Scott From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Oct 30 22:05:10 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:05:10 -0000 Subject: Ron & Harry Fight In-Reply-To: <39FDE8BC.15176F25@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tkram+t4sr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4880 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >Harry contributed to prolonging their fight with his outburst at Ron I think Harry was being very restrained and civilized. I'm not as good a person as Harry, I would have knocked Ron's block off. >and his refusal to try & talk to Ron. But what could Harry say? Ron wanted Harry to apologize for putting his name in the goblet but Harry couldn't do that because he didn't put his name in the goblet and there is nothing to apologize for even if he did. Hi -- > > eggplant88 at h... wrote: > > > You're giving reasons why Ron was an ass, perhaps your theory is > > correct, perhaps not, it doesn't matter, he's still an ass, he still > > unjustly called his best friend a liar. I happen to think that's a > > very big deal, I think it would permanently poison most friendships, > > it's just lucky for Ron that Harry has a forgiving nature. Few people > > are fortunate enough to have a friend as good as Harry and Ron almost > > threw it away. > > I really don't think it was as serious as all that! Yes, Ron's > accusations are serious but probably not enough to "permanently poison" > their friendship. I mean . . . yes, I agree that Ron was the one > largely at fault for that fight. I do think that since Hermione picked > up from the look on Harry's face that he didn't submit his name into the > Goblet, Ron should have come to the same conclusion. I also think it's > possible that Hermione said, "Hey look! Harry didn't put his name in > the Goblet, and he's really worried that someone has it in for him." If > that's the case, then Ron's stubborn insistence on not making up with > Harry is more serious. On the other hand, I have the distinct > impression that Hermione was spending virtually all her time with Harry, > so maybe she made no real effort to try & explain things to Ron. She > did seem to think it was something they should work out between > themselves. I still think she largely chose sides to some extent by > spending all or most of her time with Harry. > > But, in general, they were both at fault for prolonging the > estrangement. Ron did start the fight but Harry contributed to it being > strung out. I think it's reasonably understandable why Harry prolonged > the fight (Ron had just interrupted his conversation with Sirius, the > only person outside of Hermione who he's able to confide in & possibly > his only chance against the dragon he thinks). His outburst of anger at > Ron at that point is definitely understandable IMO. > > So, my take on it is: (a) Ron was a prat for starting the argument, (b) > Ron should have known himself or through Hermione that he was being a > prat, and if he did, then he's more stubborn & insecure than we thought, > (c) Harry contributed to prolonging their fight with his outburst at Ron > and his refusal to try & talk to Ron. They're *both* stubborn. But, it > wasn't, IMO, ever as threatening to their friendship as eggplant > asserts. > > Penny > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Mon Oct 30 22:06:40 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:06:40 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron, Hermione and insecurities (this is probably quite long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4881 Simon wrote, > Hopefully he will get some opportunity to show his Quidditch ability in the > future. His build suggests that he may be a good keeper. His seems to have > good logical reasoning and forward thought to work out what moves others > will take. On top of this he is tall which makes reaching the Quaffle much > easier. There is a space in that position - so who knows - Ron for > Gryffindor keeper. ::sticks neck out:: Actually, I reckon that Ron will be Quidditch Captain. See, if Harry's Seeker, he's by nature removed from the rest of the game and the other players. I realise that Cedric was both, but IMHO I don't think JKR would have Harry getting ALL the glory. --John ===================================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com ICQ: 96203920 "I won't eat people! Don't eat people! Eating people is wrong!" --Flanders and Swann: The Reluctant Cannibal ===================================================== From vivienne at caersidi.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 30 21:54:57 2000 From: vivienne at caersidi.demon.co.uk (Vivienne O'Regan) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:54:57 +0000 Subject: NPR Interview Message-ID: <39FDEE31.6926B6F8@caersidi.demon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4882 On Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:53:04 -0000 "Susan McGee" wrote: >> Why do you think that JKR must have known of Margot's background >> when being interviewed by Margot? Surely she doesn't check up on >> all the journalists sent to interview her! You might be implying >>that JKR encountered Margot's book (first edition copyrght 1979, >>long enough ago while researching magic and occultism I just thought it may have been mentioned. Margot is a very high profile member of the international magical community, it would seem odd not to considering that the theme of the HP books are magic and witchcraft - even given the fantastical quality of the depiction. However, as Margot is quite understated and the issue might not even have been brought up. I certainly wasn't implying that JKR had encountered Margot's work as I do not think that JKR had particularly 'researched' magic and occultism in any depth apart from some general reference works to give her work some anchor in folklore and the like. There are plenty of writers who do or dip some toes in those particular waters and that is usually evident in the way in which they write about magic. >I thought JKR might have known because they sounded like >friends in the interview. Adler was asking more questions >about how JKR was doing then she was probing for the details >we here so cherish. I think that could have just been Margot's very warm and caring personality. She is highly experienced as an interviewer and is the sort of person who would be concerned about the pressure JKR would be under from all the media etc. >However, I agree that there isn't much evidence at all (if any) >that JKR knows anything about "modern" witchcraft and paganism.. >the spell casting is very different, for example, although the >visualization technique in the repelling the Boggart and Expecto >Patronum are similar. Hmmm..perhaps I should think about this >and expand! I don't get the sense that she knows anything apart from a superficial awareness such as the term 'wiccan'. Admittedly, she does hit a few 'home runs' with respect to things such as visualization, the nature of wands and a few other points but such can be pretty much 'plucked from the air' if you are thinking along lines of creating a magical world and dipping into bits of lore. Vivienne From ravenclawlady at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 22:08:50 2000 From: ravenclawlady at yahoo.com (Melanie Moore) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:08:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] HARRY POTTER V IN 2002?!!! HARRY and THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX? Message-ID: <20001030220850.21322.qmail@web4805.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4883 --- Larry Nguyen wrote: > she's a little behind and > the book may be out as late as 2002! What's up with this? I'm just in > shock right now! I won't be able to wait THAT long for the next book! And I thought November of 2001 (to coincide with the movie) was a long wait! But actually, this new date bothers me less. I don't mind waiting to give JKR time to write the best book she can (and to let her editors do their job), and I certainly don't begrudge her a vacation. What I did mind about the previous (November 2001) date was waiting for marketing reasons, and holding the book until the movie release reeked of that. Does that make sense? Melanie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From vivienne at caersidi.demon.co.uk Mon Oct 30 22:08:52 2000 From: vivienne at caersidi.demon.co.uk (Vivienne O'Regan) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:08:52 +0000 Subject: NPR Interview Message-ID: <39FDF174.2E0BF8E@caersidi.demon.co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 4884 HarryPotterJrs at aol.com wrote: >I recall JKR stating that she had never met any 'real' witches (which >disappointed me!)...so I doubt she ever knew of Margot Adler. She probably should have qualified that statement with a 'that she knew of' and now she has met one even if she didn't realize it :-). The fact is that especially in UK few 'real' witches or 'real' magicians go around declaring the fact to people who are not involved. It is quite a closed community which generally keeps itself to itself. Vivienne From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Oct 30 22:02:45 2000 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:02:45 -0000 Subject: Ron, Hermione and insecurities (this is probably quite long) In-Reply-To: <8tknf5+hqmo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tkr65+jb4a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4885 Clearing out weeks of e-mail messages... Hi, everyone! I'm back (for a sec)... as I type these words I'm printing a long paper for tonight's class, eating, and eyeing the clock. :-) I just had to chime into the "Poor Ron" debate... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > You're giving reasons why Ron was an ass, perhaps your theory is > correct, perhaps not, it doesn't matter, he's still an ass, he still > unjustly called his best friend a liar. I happen to think that's a > very big deal, I think it would permanently poison most friendships, > it's just lucky for Ron that Harry has a forgiving nature. Few people > are fortunate enough to have a friend as good as Harry and Ron almost > threw it away. Well, that's basically my stance on the issue. :-) That wasn't just a little fight. Not in a series like Joanne Rowling's. It'd be different if they'd fought over grades or Quidditch skills or even girls. But the split was over something much more serious. I teach my students that their word is their bond, and it's the #1 thing I struggle with in my life (and sometimes fail by putting too much on my plate)--keeping my word. To deliberately tell an untruth is horrible. Doesn't matter if we've all done it--it's still wrong. To imply that someone else is lying without concrete evidence is wrong. When I was growing up, old folks from the South (read: my grandparents, my father, and all my neighbors and relatives) wouldn't even let us say the word "lie". We had to say "telling a story". It's funny... not only was there hell to pay for lying, the very use of the word was taboo and merited corporal punishment. And if you called another child or adult a liar, you might as well kiss freedom and your rear end goodbye for quite a while. I ended a friendship with a colleague several months back because she implied to a parent that I was not being truthful about a situation. I'd let other slights go, but that one was the last straw. Harry is a much better person than me... I found myself annoyed at Harry upon first reading of that section of GoF, but I was extremely angry at Ron. And a little disquieted. Situations like the Triwizard Tournament show who your true friends are. When it comes down to choosing between the way things appear to be and the word of my loved one, I'd like to think I'd go by my loved one's word. With the return and rise of Voldemort, the forces of light and good are going to have to learn that faith in each other must sometime rest on "the evidence of things unseen". Otherwise they will be utterly and rightfully defeated. Without trust, there can be no love. Disclaimer: I'm not only the oldest child like Penny, I'm the oldest grandchild *and* the oldest kid in my generation. Being the first baby born in a tightly-knit extended family in a decade affects you and your sibs'/cousins' perception of you... people have spoken of you in superlatives all your life, so you tend to live up to their expectations. I don't think I have it in me to be fair to Ron, or Ginny, or any other character commonly pitied for being younger. It's not easy being first--I've always longed for *someone* older that wasn't an authority figure to be there for me, to drive me places, to pay for things, to give me advice. Also, I was my parents' first go at being Mom and Dad... by the time they got to baby sis they'd gotten the kinks worked out. Being the pioneer gets tiring. So no, I'm not joining the "poor Ron" chorus. Everyone's got issues. When you impose those issues on others, you break up friendships. And as the Death Eaters begin to gather again, you risk innocent lives. --Ebony From editor at texas.net Mon Oct 30 22:14:22 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 16:14:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Off-Topic, but you asked, was: Peter (& Disney) References: <8tk74v+2cj0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FDF2BE.7FAC7C64@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4886 Susan McGee wrote: > I would suggest that we used to view American history from the > viewpoint of the conquerors; now some of us view it from the > standpoint of those who were the victims of genocidal warfare, Bear in mind that they were not passive victims, but did a damn lot of horrible unspeakable things on their own side, too. > and who are today still the victims of racism. Racism, I'm not too sure. Really truly rotten policy, public apathy, and lack of any popular standard-bearers, yea verily. > The life expectancy > of Native Americans in this country is well below that of non-natives. I really, really dislike this usage. I'm a native American. I was born here. My parents and grandparents, ad nauseam, were all native Americans. Don't call me a non-native just because I'm a non-Native. Very few of any of the "native" peoples of any locale of the world arrived there to find it uninhabited, and moved in; the history of the planet is about the displacement and replacement of peoples. How long does a people have to be living and reproducing in a place, to be a "native" of that place? Editors are detail-oriented. Sorry. --Amanda From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Mon Oct 30 22:54:03 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:54:03 -0000 Subject: HP Calendars References: <8tk680+mgm4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015901c042c4$4d97ef80$62f7883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4887 UK listers may be interested to know that yesterday I bought two HP 2001 calendars from Woolworths @ 6.99 each but the 2nd is half price if you buy two so I did. Little sis' xmas prezzie is now sorted. I don't know if you can get them in the US, woolies is a US company isn't it? Certainly there was a woolies in NY but last time I was there was 1988 . Heather From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 23:51:39 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:51:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Poor Rom References: <8tkr65+jb4a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007601c042cc$599b85a0$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4888 Ok, everyone's going off on the qualities of these three friends, poor Ron, or how could Ron have...? or that kind of things. In my experiences with men (hides a cough) including ex's, brothers, cousins, fathers, and other male friends, I have discovered something. Men tend to act like babies sometimes. Now this is not saying that all men on this list are under this classification--but the 25-60 that I know of personally all fit this case! 1.)A fight occurs. Rather than A admitting to B that A was wrong, they drag out these fights, and involve everyone around them in their misery. I still haven't figured this out. 2.)They know that they are lost, are wrong, whatever, they will continue with the self-deception until the pile of (insert word) is too high to deal with. (Like when you are lost and they refuse to stop at the gas station. This is NOT a caricature!) Or, that they believe a woman who is totally faithful is sleeping with someone else, when they deep down know better. Or to use HP, Ron KNOWS Harry's nature and that Harry never lies to his friends. Faculty, yes, sometimes to avoid trouble. But never to friends, but Ron's following this typical male thing. It didn't matter if the men involved with the last paragraph were first born, second, or the last born. They still had that flaw! 3.) There are some women who do follow this as well, but not as many as the men! Sorry, guys, you're in the majority in my book. Examples can be given upon request, with the names of the guilty withheld. (And yes, this is a humorous post....sorry if it offends anyone!) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Oct 30 23:59:35 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 17:59:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Calendars References: <8tk680+mgm4@eGroups.com> <015901c042c4$4d97ef80$62f7883e@default> Message-ID: <00a301c042cd$763b4aa0$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4889 :( Heather, in both Canton and Akron, Woolworth's pulled up stakes and ran away. Saddened, Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Edmonds To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 4:54 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Calendars UK listers may be interested to know that yesterday I bought two HP 2001 calendars from Woolworths @ ?6.99 each but the 2nd is half price if you buy two so I did. Little sis' xmas prezzie is now sorted. I don't know if you can get them in the US, woolies is a US company isn't it? Certainly there was a woolies in NY but last time I was there was 1988 . Heather eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From johnwalton at bigfoot.com Mon Oct 30 23:05:23 2000 From: johnwalton at bigfoot.com (John Walton) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:05:23 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Calendars In-Reply-To: <00a301c042cd$763b4aa0$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4890 As I'm returning to the USA on 17 December, I'd be more than willing to buy calendars and mail them off, assuming that my local Woolies has them :) --John ===================================================== John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com ICQ: 96203920 "I won't eat people! Don't eat people! Eating people is wrong!" --Flanders and Swann: The Reluctant Cannibal ===================================================== > UK listers may be interested to know that yesterday I bought two HP 2001 > calendars from Woolworths @ ?6.99 each but the 2nd is half price if you buy > two so I did. Little sis' xmas prezzie is now sorted. > > I don't know if you can get them in the US, woolies is a US company isn't > it? Certainly there was a woolies in NY but last time I was there was 1988 > . From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Oct 30 23:56:11 2000 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:56:11 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Whither Gryffindor Quidditch? In-Reply-To: <8tke7f+3kg3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20001030154957.021bc640@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4891 At 06:21 PM 10/30/00 +0000, Steve Vander Ark wrote: >The past year was a wash, since there was no Quidditch. That means no >one has been training. Wood is gone, so this coming year someone else >will have to be the captain... My guess is that the Gryffindor victory in PoA is the "Happy Ending" to the Quidditch saga and that JKR will find a way to keep the house tournaments from taking place for the rest of the series. (V's new Reign of Terror will probably be the excuse.) >As for brooms, where did Harry get HIS >first broom? It just turned up at breakfast one day. So let >McGonagall or whomever buy Ron a nice broom too. Yes, when *are* non-Quidditch players allowed to have brooms of their own? We've never seen Hermione on one at all. (Of course, she'll probably learn to apparate in order to get 256% on her OWL exams, and then some emergency will crop up where she *has* to travel by broom, and she'll need Harry to be her "designated driver".) -- Dave From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 31 00:11:14 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:11:14 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Found the article] Message-ID: <39FE0E22.448317C3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4892 Hi, list. Sally of the Rickman newsletter found the article she got the Satanist reference from; here it is. FWIW. --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Found the article Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:28:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Sally G." To: Amanda Lewanski Hi Amaanda Ok, following up to being unable to find the article - I did. This is it in the full - and you can see where the inferences came in... Sally (From Empire Online; http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?2654) Is Harry Potter The Devil? 27/10/2000 It often seems that the whole world is falling well and truly under the spell of Harry Potter. As the hype machine builds, fans collectively hold their breath in anticipation of the wizards arrival on the silver screen. However, some detractors detect a more nefarious objective behind the adventures of Harry and his chums. Potter, it would seem, is the instrument of Satan and is calling his fans to drop everything and pledge allegiance to the prince of darkness. Or so author JK Rowling was informed when she gave a special reading from Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire at the International Festival of Authors in Toronto. Left stunned in front of 10,000 fans, Rowling was barely able to respond to accusations that Harry encourages Satanism, responding to one such allegation: No. You are a lunatic. Rowling went on to deny any belief in the occult and any connection whatsoever to Lucifer and his wicked minions. Slurs of evil content seem to be plaguing poor Harry after the film shoot was forced to abandon its proposed filming at Gloucester Cathedral amid a sea of similar accusations. Parishioners, concerned about the books promotion of pagan ideals, staged protests which forced the crew to relocate to Durham instead. However, with excitement over the upcoming film of Harry Potter and The Philosophers Stone growing exponentially and fresh converts picking up his books every day, it would seem that the threat of hell and damnation is simply not what it used to be. --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Hey, Sally, a correction on a bit of the movie > stuff. Doesn't have to do > with Alan Rickman, just Jo Rowling, but I thought > you'd want to know. > > --Amanda > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Movie stuff > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:18:46 -0800 (PST) > From: Sheryll Townsend > Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > > --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > > > > -- Author of Harry Potter, J. K. Rowling, gave a > > speech at the International Festival of Authors in > > Toronto (26th October, 2000). In front of 10,000 > > fans > > in the Sky Dome, Rowling was left stunned when > > accusations began to fly that encourages Satanism. > > She > > recovered enough to defend that she has no belief > in > > the occult and any connection with Lucifer. > > Fortunately, it would appear that most of the > world > > - > > and the children - don't side with the radical > few > > ---------------------------------------- > > > I don't know where this article came from, but it is > totally inaccurate. I was at the International > Festival of Authors for JKR's reading (not speech - > she read chapter 4 of GoF). The attendance was > actually 15,000+, making it the largest public > reading > in history (which may put her into the Guiness Book > of > World Records). > There were no accusations of Satanism at this event. > What happened was, after reading chapter 4, she said > she would take the time to answer some of the > questions she'd been asked by reporters while in > Toronto. One of these questions was: > "Do you believe these books encourage Satanism?" > Her response? "No, you are a lunatic." > > It was a fantastic reading and I loved her addition > of > the questions at the end (the reading went by too > quickly and none of us were in a hurry to see her > leave the stage). As I said in a brief report on the > event (posted last week to this group) she was also > asked if she thought the movie would ruin the books. > Her response? "No, the readers aren't idiots." I > loved > it. > > Sorry to be repetitive (most of this was in my > previous post on the event), but I didn't want to > let > the inaccuracies in the above article pass > uncorrected. > > Sheryll > > ===== > "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou > art crunchy and taste > good with ketchup." > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ===== -------------- For all the best and latest on Alan Rickman, be sure to keep checking back at http://www.cybamuse.com/movieThemes/actors/arickman/ To unsubscribe from this newsletter, please send an email to AR_Newsletter-unsubscribe at topica.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From skywalker1 at ibm.net Tue Oct 31 00:25:18 2000 From: skywalker1 at ibm.net (Brian ) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:25:18 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <39FDA2A2.682F8812@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tl3he+o0u4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4893 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >You've said several times before that Hermione is a braggart . . . >obnoxious . . . what have you. In each case, I've asked you for >references proving Hermione brags about her intellectual >accomplishments or "shows off." First off I would say that I lean toward the R/H side of the argument (that is if any of the triad end up together at all). My only reason for this is a gut feeling based on the characters personalities. Ok, now that that's out of the way ... Since I haven't seen anyone else give examples for the "Hermione's an obnoxious braggart" issue, I would like to bring up her statement that she got something like 112% on Flitwick's test and her following statement "they're not going to throw *me* out after that!". I think the fact that she scored so high would not effect any decision to expel her if the circumstances called for it so the statement must have been simply to let someone know exactly how good she did. Now, I don't have a problem with Hermione. I was very much like her in Jr. High and High School but I learned after a time to keep any successes to myself ... something I think Hermione has figured out by book 4 where she showed a great deal more maturity as compared to the scabbers incident in book 3. From joym999 at aol.com Tue Oct 31 00:56:47 2000 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:56:47 -0000 Subject: Peter (& Disney) In-Reply-To: <020a01c04085$902bee00$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8tl5cf+prtj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4894 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: >Pocahontas is the acceptance of people, savages, despite their race Are people who do not use modern technology savages? Or are the savages the people who tear down the trees, pave over the ground with concrete, and erect factories and power plants which spew out dirty air? Us wealthy white Americans and Europeans are accustomed to hearing people with darker skin, from less technologic societies, referred to as savages but modern technology is pretty damn savage if you ask me. Dont get me wrong, I love computers and rocket ships and dont want to live without electricity, but it all comes at a very, very high price, and the relative savageness of different cultures is pretty subjective. -- Joywitch From jciesla at madbbs.com Tue Oct 31 01:08:03 2000 From: jciesla at madbbs.com (Julia L. Ciesla) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:08:03 -0500 Subject: OT: UK Storm Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20001030200803.007b0810@mail.madbbs.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4895 Hi All, I hope that anyone who may have had to endure the massive storm in the UK/Ireland last night is doing alright. I heard a story about it on National Public Radio on my dinner break tonight. I guess there was 90mph winds and lots of damage. A good chunk of southern England is without power (of course that may have changed now) and I heard there was damage all the way up to the midlands. I know there are some people on this list that live overseas. I hope you're all alright! Julia From shellymoos at hotmail.com Tue Oct 31 02:42:57 2000 From: shellymoos at hotmail.com (Shelly ) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:42:57 -0000 Subject: HP Calanders Message-ID: <8tlbjh+4hhi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4896 Hi all, Was at B. Dalton and Waldenbooks today and saw the new HP calanders. Plan to pick one up later this week on payday. They are really cool and can't wait to pick them up. B. Dalton also had the collectors edition of SS and some of the coffee mugs that I saw at the WB store a few weeks ago. Really want the book but it is sort of pricey. Later Shelly From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 31 03:25:32 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:25:32 -0500 Subject: Snape! (song) References: <8tlbjh+4hhi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002c01c042ea$3aed8900$21dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4897 Inspired by the Boggart that assumed the form of Snape garbed in the robes of Grandma Longbottom, here's a musical tribute to our favorite Potions Prof, sung to the tune of "Mame," from Jerry Hermann's 1966 musical Who's the fearsome head of Slytherin's dorm? Snape! Who's not exactly fuzzy and warm? Snape! Who can we always count on for a snarl and a snap and then a sneer? Who deducts points from Gryffindor every time that Harry ventures near? Whose merest gesture conveys immense threat? Snape! Who's made Draco M. his teachers' pet? Snape! He has the features into which the boggarts now all want to change their shape He is the Master of Potions, who'll Get sorely overemotional At every Potter Promotional Snape! Your class is a dungeon drafty and dank Snape! You're lean, a meanie, cranky and lank Snape! You outed Lupin and to Black you are quite Sirius-ly averse Yet you protected Harry and saved him from Professor Quirrell's curse. You have a superb theatrical flair Snape! You seem to Apparate out of thin air Snape! You know how to make an entrance that causes every mouth to fall agape Your eyes glimmer as black as coal You crush and swallow students whole A guy we shouldn't try to troll Snape! Check the sundial it's after one The Potions class has just begun The cauldron's already beginning to boil Snape! Toward the back Hermione and Ron Are wishing they could be already gone While Malfoy snickers with Crabbe and Goyle Snape! According to Neville You're the very devil You're scarier than You-Know-Who While you explain A dash of wolfsbane And asphodel's best for this brew Yet George and Fred have frequently said Rather than sit through this They'd rather undergo a Dementor's Kiss! You want to teach the Dark Arts Defense Snape! But you're more skilled at taking Offense Snape! But now a disturbance has arisen, and it seems as though there may be no escape: Your Dark Mark starts to blaze again Lord Voldy's snake eyes gaze again It's that Death Eater craze again! Snape! You were once rivals with Harry's dad Snape! Your memories of him still drive you mad Snape! For over 20 years upon that werewolf incident you've dwelled You don't want Harry dead, but you'll be avenged if you get him expelled. We're spellbound by your spite and sheer rage Snape! You seem to spring right off of the page Snape! You've now become an archetype, like Sherlock Holmes or Batman in his cape So it stands at the end of Volume Four: You're off to spy for Dumbledore You'll help demolish Voldemort! Snape! Snape! Snape! Snape! Snape! - CMC From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 04:36:23 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:36:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape! (song) References: <8tlbjh+4hhi@eGroups.com> <002c01c042ea$3aed8900$21dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <009d01c042f4$21a09780$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4898 APPPPPPPPLLLLLLLLAAAAAAUSSSSSSSSSSEEEEEEE!!!!' Looks at the above message. I think you get the hint. Please, keep making these, I love reading them! They are abso wonderful! Thank you for making me smile in a depressing day (Nothing you guys did, trust me--it's just been a chaotic week, and my family capped it yesterday!) Dee ----- Original Message ----- From: Caius Marcius To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 9:25 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape! (song) Inspired by the Boggart that assumed the form of Snape garbed in the robes of Grandma Longbottom, here's a musical tribute to our favorite Potions Prof, sung to the tune of "Mame," from Jerry Hermann's 1966 musical Who's the fearsome head of Slytherin's dorm? Snape! Who's not exactly fuzzy and warm? Snape! Who can we always count on for a snarl and a snap and then a sneer? Who deducts points from Gryffindor every time that Harry ventures near? Whose merest gesture conveys immense threat? Snape! Who's made Draco M. his teachers' pet? Snape! He has the features into which the boggarts now all want to change their shape He is the Master of Potions, who'll Get sorely overemotional At every Potter Promotional Snape! Your class is a dungeon drafty and dank Snape! You're lean, a meanie, cranky and lank Snape! You outed Lupin and to Black you are quite Sirius-ly averse Yet you protected Harry and saved him from Professor Quirrell's curse. You have a superb theatrical flair Snape! You seem to Apparate out of thin air Snape! You know how to make an entrance that causes every mouth to fall agape Your eyes glimmer as black as coal You crush and swallow students whole A guy we shouldn't try to troll Snape! Check the sundial it's after one The Potions class has just begun The cauldron's already beginning to boil Snape! Toward the back Hermione and Ron Are wishing they could be already gone While Malfoy snickers with Crabbe and Goyle Snape! According to Neville You're the very devil You're scarier than You-Know-Who While you explain A dash of wolfsbane And asphodel's best for this brew Yet George and Fred have frequently said Rather than sit through this They'd rather undergo a Dementor's Kiss! You want to teach the Dark Arts Defense Snape! But you're more skilled at taking Offense Snape! But now a disturbance has arisen, and it seems as though there may be no escape: Your Dark Mark starts to blaze again Lord Voldy's snake eyes gaze again It's that Death Eater craze again! Snape! You were once rivals with Harry's dad Snape! Your memories of him still drive you mad Snape! For over 20 years upon that werewolf incident you've dwelled You don't want Harry dead, but you'll be avenged if you get him expelled. We're spellbound by your spite and sheer rage Snape! You seem to spring right off of the page Snape! You've now become an archetype, like Sherlock Holmes or Batman in his cape So it stands at the end of Volume Four: You're off to spy for Dumbledore You'll help demolish Voldemort! Snape! Snape! Snape! Snape! Snape! - CMC eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From chrisgoetz at home.com Tue Oct 31 03:39:56 2000 From: chrisgoetz at home.com (chrisgoetz at home.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:39:56 -0000 Subject: more merchandise from Sylvan Lane In-Reply-To: <39FA1E68.F54B63C8@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <8tleuc+jt5t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4899 This stuff is so over-priced. You can buy most of it for half the cost off the WB web site! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > Again, from Sylvian Lane: > We now have the Harry Potter Trivia Game and the Quidditch Card Game in > stock! Go here to order: > http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/order_harrypotter_games.htm > > > We also have the Hogwarts Crest Spiral Notebooks back in stock, they can > be seen here: http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter.htm > From lrcjestes at msn.com Tue Oct 31 03:44:44 2000 From: lrcjestes at msn.com (lrcjestes) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 22:44:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape! (song) References: <8tlbjh+4hhi@eGroups.com> <002c01c042ea$3aed8900$21dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <00ca01c042ec$ea6e8300$f06a5ecf@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4900 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caius Marcius" To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 10:25 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape! (song) > Inspired by the Boggart that assumed the form of Snape garbed in the robes > of Grandma Longbottom, here's a musical tribute to our favorite Potions > Prof, sung to the tune of "Mame," from Jerry Hermann's 1966 musical > LOL!!!! and printing it out for my husband Randy who used to post songs like this to the list...you should hear his version of "I am the very model of an Adult Harry Potter Fan" sung to the song of a similar title from the Pirates of Penzance (that is the right operatta isn't it). I'll have to find it and post it to the files section of the egroup page. He also heartily enjoyed the Death Eaters March (to the Mickey Mouse tune)...it made his afternoon at work bearable. Thanks carole PS. (shameless self promotion) for any interested parties that are not on the PoU list...Chapter 10 of ASA is now posted there (http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty) and on www.fanfiction.net From kathleen at carr.org Tue Oct 31 01:54:44 2000 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:54:44 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fleur & R/H Message-ID: <200010310349.e9V3nUU23838@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 4901 >However, I hope and believe that Hermione will accept Viktor's >invitation. She has been to France; she wished she could have >gone to Egypt. I hope she will take the opportunity to visit >Bulgaria, and perhaps Durmstrang, and learn first hand about >wizards and witches abroad. I think she will. > >Susan > Plus think of all the yummy Ron-gets-jealous scenes this could lead to...eventually leading to the climactic moment when he finally declares his love for her....sigh...sorry, I drifted off there... Kathy From chrisgoetz at home.com Tue Oct 31 03:50:29 2000 From: chrisgoetz at home.com (chrisgoetz at home.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 03:50:29 -0000 Subject: UK merchandise? Message-ID: <8tlfi5+ardo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4902 Just wondering - is there (or has anyone heard that there will be) merchandise specific to the UK? Seems appropriate, since it's Harry's home. Chris From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 31 04:05:59 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:05:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 7 Heavenly Virtues: Fortitude (long) References: <39FBC0C3.7E959D37@ibm.net> Message-ID: <000a01c042ef$e1346c20$4dc44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4903 > Fortitude, I think, manifests itself both in active and passive forms. > > Passive fortitude means bearing things (ranging from the merely vexing > to the dreadful) without giving up or giving in. For Harry, at a more > minor level, this means for example enduring the jibes of classmates who > mistakenly think he cheated to get his name in the Goblet of Fire (of > course it helps to have Hermione sitting beside him intoning, "ignore > them, ignore them, ignore them.") This kind of fortitude, because it is > passive, can be easily underestimated or overlooked. A very subtle > example of this, perhaps, might be Neville Longbottom, who earns Harry's > belated respect once Harry realizes that Neville has lost his parents to > Voldemort, too. Neville carries on, nevertheless, trying to conquer his > fear of Snape in Potions class, without a murmur of complaint, without > even telling anyone. Just quietly going on about his life and humbly > doing his best, while continuing to faithfully visit his parents at the > hospital on his holidays, although they are unable to even recognize > him. Harry is ashamed that he has never truly seen the truth about > Neville before learning it in Dumbledore's Pensieve, but it is > understandable why he did not--this kind of fortitude does not draw > attention to itself Neville's active courage was recognized early on (at the end of HP/SS) by an authoritative source. "There are all kinds of courage," said Dumbledore, smiling. "It takes a great deal of bravery to stand up to our enemies, but just as much to stand up to our friends. I award ten points to Mr. NevilleLongbottom." Those ten points are enough to secure the House Cup for Gryffindor. Earlier, Neville tried to prevent Harry, Ron & Hermione from leaving the Tower in their quest for the stone, even threatening to fight them. Although Hermione easily immobilizes him in a full body bind, Neville shows a spirit which will no doubt reach a fuller fruition in the volumes yet to come. - CMC From faerysneezes at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 04:22:33 2000 From: faerysneezes at yahoo.com (faerysneezes at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:22:33 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <39FDA5EE.5E27A826@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tlhe9+ka18@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4904 > > Am I the only one who's noticed this? > > PoA -- Chapter 13 (pages 264-65 in US version): > > "Only one person wasn't joining in the festivities. .... Harry broke > away from the table where Fred and George had started juggling > butterbeer bottles and went over to her. > > ..... 'Come on, Hermione, come and have some food,' Harry said, looking > over at Ron and wondering whether he was in a good enough mood to bury > the hatchet. > > ..... She glanced over at Ron too. 'He doesn't want me to join in.' > > There was no arguing with htis, as Ron chose that moment to say loudly, > 'If Scabbers hadn't just been eaten, he could have had some of those > Fudge Flies. He used to really like them ---' > > Hermione burst into tears. Before Harry could say or do anything, she > tucked the enormous book under her arm, and still sobbing, ran toward > the staircase to the girls' dormitories and out of sight. > > 'Can't you give her a break?' Harry asked Ron quietly. > > 'No,' said Ron flatly. 'If she just acted like she's sorry ....' > > _____________________________________________ > > Don't know about you, but that's pretty clear evidence to me that Harry > no longer held any grudge against Hermione, he wanted her friendship > back & he was actively trying to make the two of them make up. Ron is > stubborn in this case too. > duh! sorry... posted with out consulting the canon (stupid move!) okay, scratch that arguement norevoli > > To tell you the truth I'm pretty surprised that its taken four years > > for them to have an actual fight. Its quite a natural thing to > > happen. Friends are allowed to have squabbles. And most times these > > squabbles are a result of one person being obnoxious or totally > > ignorant. It happens. > > I agree completely with this! I'd been thinking to myself that it was > completely unrealistic that they'd never had a squabble of any sort. > The fight in GoF lasted longer than it shold have & was really largely > unnecessary but . . . on the whole, I thought it was about time really. > > Penny > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From faerysneezes at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 04:39:32 2000 From: faerysneezes at yahoo.com (faerysneezes at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:39:32 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tki52+kh47@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tlie4+93vm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4905 > >To tell you the truth I'm pretty surprised that its taken four years > >for them to have an actual fight. Its quite a natural thing to > >happen. > > Little arguments sure but this was something that was big, long > lasting, totally unjustified, and hurt Harry a lot. And *all* friendships have big long lasting squabbles. And i found that there were many instances where it seemed one was ready to reconcile with the other but the other wasn't. Eg. Harry wanting to talk about it in potions detention with Ron but Ron being upset [caused by Skeeter article]. Ron coming down the stairs during Harry's chat with Sirius (i guess showing some concern for Harry's wellbeing as he's up in the middle of the night looking for harry) where there is some chance for making up but harry is pissed off at the fact that he interupted his chat with sirius. Sometime friends fight because one or the other is ignorant about something or just does something completely stupid. And then during the duration of the fight there will always be so many times when they *almost* make up but one or the other isn't ready yet. hey fighting happens... but in the end no one was permenantly damaged. i fact i find that it probably made them stronger norevoli From faerysneezes at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 05:06:40 2000 From: faerysneezes at yahoo.com (faerysneezes at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 05:06:40 -0000 Subject: Snape! (song) In-Reply-To: <002c01c042ea$3aed8900$21dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8tlk10+2jgq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4906 according to my sesame street unpaved book, i believe big bird had a song like this too.... very cute... norevoli --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Inspired by the Boggart that assumed the form of Snape garbed in the robes > of Grandma Longbottom, here's a musical tribute to our favorite Potions > Prof, sung to the tune of "Mame," from Jerry Hermann's 1966 musical > > Who's the fearsome head of Slytherin's dorm? > Snape! > Who's not exactly fuzzy and warm? > Snape! > Who can we always count on for a snarl and a snap and then a sneer? > Who deducts points from Gryffindor every time that Harry ventures near? > Whose merest gesture conveys immense threat? > Snape! > Who's made Draco M. his teachers' pet? > Snape! > He has the features into which the boggarts now all want to change their > shape > He is the Master of Potions, who'll > Get sorely overemotional > At every Potter Promotional > Snape! > > Your class is a dungeon drafty and dank > Snape! > You're lean, a meanie, cranky and lank > Snape! > You outed Lupin and to Black you are quite Sirius-ly averse > Yet you protected Harry and saved him from Professor Quirrell's curse. > You have a superb theatrical flair > Snape! > You seem to Apparate out of thin air > Snape! > You know how to make an entrance that causes every mouth to fall agape > Your eyes glimmer as black as coal > You crush and swallow students whole > A guy we shouldn't try to troll > Snape! > > Check the sundial it's after one > The Potions class has just begun > The cauldron's already beginning to boil > Snape! > Toward the back Hermione and Ron > Are wishing they could be already gone > While Malfoy snickers with Crabbe and Goyle > Snape! > According to Neville > You're the very devil > You're scarier than You-Know-Who > While you explain > A dash of wolfsbane > And asphodel's best for this brew > Yet George and Fred have frequently said > Rather than sit through this > They'd rather undergo a Dementor's Kiss! > You want to teach the Dark Arts Defense > Snape! > But you're more skilled at taking Offense > Snape! > But now a disturbance has arisen, and it seems as though there may be no > escape: > Your Dark Mark starts to blaze again > Lord Voldy's snake eyes gaze again > It's that Death Eater craze again! > Snape! > > You were once rivals with Harry's dad > Snape! > Your memories of him still drive you mad > Snape! > For over 20 years upon that werewolf incident you've dwelled > You don't want Harry dead, but you'll be avenged if you get him expelled. > We're spellbound by your spite and sheer rage > Snape! > You seem to spring right off of the page > Snape! > You've now become an archetype, like Sherlock Holmes or Batman in his cape > So it stands at the end of Volume Four: > You're off to spy for Dumbledore > You'll help demolish Voldemort! > Snape! Snape! Snape! Snape! Snape! > > - CMC From rgoertz at austin.rr.com Tue Oct 31 05:10:46 2000 From: rgoertz at austin.rr.com (Ryan Goertz) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 05:10:46 -0000 Subject: Thoughts on Relationships Message-ID: <8tlk8m+af69@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4907 Hi folks, In reading through the posts where many predictions have been made as to who will end up dating who I would like to share some thoughts I had after reading Goblet of Fire. After several hours of processing and internalizing GOF I began thinking about the end of the relationship between Cho and Cedric. In multiple stories out there, the plot sometimes exists of: boy meets girl, boy falls for girl, boy is too late in asking girl out and finds out she is dating someone else. It is not often that the boy the girl is dating gets murdered. When I was thinking of the end of that relationship I then thought that Harry now has a chance to be with Cho. I realized that was a rather shallow thought. It is my guess that if Harry and Cho were to become a couple it would probably be several books later and after a lot of uncomfortable situations. I have a feeling that Cho would be very hesitant about being with anyone. She could have a great amount of fear that anyone she cares could be taken away from her the way Cedric was. Having Voldemort being fully restored and around will probably not help things either. What I am guessing as a possible storyline is that Harry will probably try to approach her and she will be very stand-offish around him. She might even resent him for the death of Cedric. I am doubting it, but who knows? It is all up to the imagination of Rowling. If it happens I guess it will be gradual. About the idea of who will Hermione be with. I have this gut feeling that she will end up with Ron, but then again I have had multiple guesses about what will happen in the books and be proven wrong when those lovely plot twists happen. Just some thoughts. Cheers, Ryan From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Tue Oct 31 05:13:23 2000 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 05:13:23 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tl3he+o0u4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tlkdj+d8bp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4908 >Brian wrote: >Since I haven't seen anyone else give examples for the "Hermione's >an obnoxious braggart" issue, I would like to bring up her >statement that she got something like 112% on Flitwick's test and >her following statement "they're not going to throw *me* out after that!". Let's put that remark in context. She said she should be the one to actually steal the ingredients for the polly juice potion from Snape, a pretty gutsy thing to do by the way. When asked why she be the one to do this dangerous job she explained, accurately I think, why she was less likely to be expelled if caught than Ron or Harry. I like Hermione and she has no need to apologize for being smart. The only time I was mad at her was during the Scabbers incident, she should have shown more consideration towards Ron. From drmm at fuuko.com Tue Oct 31 05:29:02 2000 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:29:02 -0600 Subject: In defense of Ron Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001030213226.00a92550@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4909 Warning: long post ahead :) > *I* do understand this. I'm the oldest child, and while my sister would > tell you that she felt overshadowed by my intellectual successes her > entire life, I would tell you that I felt just as overshadowed by her > social successes. Virtually anyone who had a sibling would understand > that problem. I would wager even "only" children have problems forging > their own identity. I think most of us *understand* that issue Dr MM. I don't know that I neccessarily agree with it. I think, despite someone's best efforts, it's difficult to understand the POV of being a younger sibling. Older children always have the advantage of doing something first. They go to school first, they get to drive first . . . Maybe later in life the younger sibling can excel at something that the older sibling was only mediocre at. However, frequently younger siblings tend to not try to excel in something that their older one has already tried. I never gave swimming the effort it deserved growing up partially because I was convinced that I could never be as good as my sister, even though I was told by both my parents and the swim coach, that I could be better if I actually worked at it. In the same vein, I don't think I can understand completely how an older sibling feels. I know I irritated my brother and sister growing up by constantly tagging along . . . and while I can imagine it, I still can't be positive that what I imagine and reality are the same thing. Besides . . . I can't imagine that many (if any) of us grew up in a family of quite the same size Ron did . . . In Ron's case, there seems to be no arena left for him to try. I would love to see him play Quidditch . . . and I think he could be wonderful as a captain because he could apply his talent for strategy he gained from Chess to Quidditch . . . I'm just not sure that he'd try it (or have the self-confidence) unless someone (maybe Harry) talked him into it. Although . . . part of the problem might be the fact he doesn't have a decent broom to try out on (as Simon suggested). As for the whole sibling-envy self-comparison thing . . . In your case, you suggested that you also felt envy towards your younger sister for her successes, I see no evidence that any of Ron's family (except Ginny in CoS for being friends with Harry -- oh, and Fred & George about the flying car) are envious of anything that Ron has done. None of this is long lasting, unlike the attention given to Ron's brothers. >Well, Fred & George are on the team, despite Charlie's earlier >successes. I've always thought it odd that Ron, the super-fan of >Quidditch, isn't on the team or a reserve player or something. I'll >admit that my conclusion was that he didn't have the talent . . . but >maybe that's unfair. Maybe he's just avoiding the game on the grounds >that 3 of his brothers have already taken that route. Actually, I'm a bit confused about Quidditch. I've gotten the impression that none of the houses have reserve players (or at least Gryffindor), in which case, since Harry got the seeker position in his first year, all the positions Ron could have tried out for were already taken in CoS and PoA. In GoF, when Wood is gone they didn't have Quidditch so Ron couldn't try out. I wouldn't be at all surprised for Ron to try out for Quidditch in the next book (although I think it will take Harry and Hermione's prompting to give Ron the confidence he needs). Of course, I could be wrong about the reserve thing . . . in which case I go with the "he didn't have confidence because of his brothers" theory. And I think Simon has a good point about his lack of a decent broom. > Wow! Interesting take on Mrs. Weasley -- I've always thought Molly was > pretty much even-handed with her kids. I do think she takes alot of > pride in Percy's accomplishments but . . . I think Percy is the one > child who is most like her. It's probably natural that she has > extra-special feelings for him because of that -- or they have a "bond" > because of that. But just because one child is like you, does that mean you should shower gifts (like owls) on them that you don't give your other children? (I'm not sure Mrs. Weasley and Percy are that much alike though.) While I think Mrs. Weasley is a loving mother, I do think she shows excessive favoritism towards Percy. She's also consistantly pointing out his perfections to her other children: "Second Head boy in the family!" she said, swelling with pride." (PoA). While this may not bother Fred & George, who have no desire to be Head Boy, it can't be good for Ron's (who has shown the desire in SS/PS) self-esteem. And she's shown as terribly overbearing when it comes to her actions towards her "less-exemplary children." Besides the fact that her yelling goes to extremes when her children do anything wrong (the car in CoS). She also insults Fred & George's dream of owning a joke shop and does her best to ensure their dream never happens. While I'm confident that she loves her children and that her tendency towards praise of Percy and overbearing attitude towards Fred, George and Ron is out of a desire to see them succeed in life, I think it contributes to Ron's lack of self-confidence. I suppose that's why I was able to see Rosie O'Donnell as Mrs. Weasley in a movie more than others were . . . I think Rosie could do "overbearing mother" quite well . . . . if she had the proper British background of course. > *I* at least have never argued that his insecurities are not > understandable. But just because I *understand* them doesn't mean that > it makes any sense to me to believe that his insecurities wouldn't come > into play & cause friction if he & Hermione attempted a romantic > relationship. Ah, but I think that Hermione's insecurites could come into play in a relationship with Harry. I think, in a relationship, people would focus more on Harry than her (despite her academic prowess), which could cause a certain amount of resentment (although it would be restrained) on her part. But . . I don't feel like getting into an H/R vs. H/H argument at the moment. Besides the fact that it's been rehashed into the ground, I don't think it would convince either of us to change our minds. > Well, we all hope so . . . I think it's more accurate to say that Ron > will in all likelihood eventually gain self-confidence, self-esteem, >etc. *If* he does, then one of my major objections to a pairing of R & > H would be eliminated. But, I don't think he'll gain self-esteem > by dating a super-star who overshadows him yet again. I think the only > way that relationship works is if he gets the self-esteem *first* and > then dates Hermione. But, even then . . . I still think H & H are > better-suited for one another. :--) See above :) > Well, first, I'm curious why you want to pair an *obnoxious > over-achiever* (your words) with your favorite character (or I assume > you identify most strongly with Ron)? If Hermione is so bossy, > obnoxious & distasteful to you, then why do you want to pair her off > with Ron? Your past posts have indicated that you have strong issues > with both Harry (inconsiderate) and Hermione (obnoxious braggart) -- so > *why* wouldn't you want them to just end up together, leaving Ron to > find someone "better"? First off, Ron isn't my favorite character; Snape is. After that, I suppose it's Ginny (who reminds me of myself at that age -- hyperactive and generally talkative with a hopeless crush on someone they can never have -- I've sort of given up on my slight H/G hopes). Of the three, I suppose I like Ron better, although I think Harry's more interesting. I can understand Ron more than I've ever been able to understand Harry or Hermione (although I'm attempting to understand Hermione more). And of course, it seems to me that people are constantly shoving Ron off to the side, which bothers me so I focus more on writing about him . . . in which case I understand him more and like him more . . . And I like him more after this thread than I ever did before . . . Why do I want an R/H pairing? (Hermione and obnoxiousness is next.) I think they'd complement each other quite well. Hermione has shown a great deal of patience and understanding, the type of patience and understanding that it takes to deal with someone who has a quick temper. I think she would also push Ron to succeed more than he might do with another person. At the moment, I think her pushiness is excessive (read: obnoxious and overbearing) and Ron has shown the tendency to resent it so far. However, if Hermione continues to "lighten up" the way she has through the series, it will become more apparent to Ron that it's because she wants him to succeed and this will influence him far more than anything else. Why would Ron be good for Hermione? In the first place, he would help Hermione lighten up. Hermione tends to spend so much time studying and pushes herself so hard that her opinion of her worth is based entirely on her GPA (well, something like that). IMO Ron would be the best person to help her have fun with life. "There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend." I don't think Harry could do that. Also, Ron has a sense of passion that hasn't been apparent in Hermione's nature. When Hermione is insulted, she has the tendency to sit there and take it, while Ron is willing to fight. At the moment, they both need to learn to regulate these habits. Ron is too quickly angered; Hermione needs to learn when to fight. Together they would help each other. But that's JMO :) > You've said several times before that Hermione is a braggart . . . > obnoxious . . . what have you. In each case, I've asked you for > references proving Hermione brags about her intellectual accomplishments > or "shows off." You've never responded. She *is* always eager to give > the right answer .... but this isn't the same thing as "bragging" IMO. > We only know she's top of the class because Lucius Malfoy says so > (belittling Draco in CoS). I don't have the impression that she "shows > off" -- some people interpret her having the right answers as "showing > off," but I think that she's showing the reverse. I think it shows she > has the self-confidence to assert herself in the classroom, which is a > positive thing in my mind. Especially since we hear & read so much > about young girls & women not being assertive in the classroom. I don't > have the impression she spends time outside the classroom telling Ron & > Harry about her grades, etc. Note: I don't hate Hermione. There's a difference between being assertive and willing to share the answers and being obnoxious about it IMO. Just because Hermione knows all the answers doesn't mean she *has* to display it in front of the class every single time a question is asked. To me it doesn't even seem like she gives anyone else the opportunity to answer. "The Mandrake forms an essential part of most antidotes. It is also, however, dangerous. Who can tell me why?" Hermione's hand narrowly missed Harry's glasses as it shot up again. "The cry of the Mandrake is fatal to anyone who hears it," she said promptly. (CoS) Neville is in the same Herbology class and it's his best subject. He may have known the answer, but because Hermione insists on answering every single question so quickly, we just don't know. I have no objection to raising her hand and telling the answer if no one else knows or if she doesn't do it as frequently as she does, but she rarely, if ever, gives anyone else the opportunity to answer. That's why I feel like she's showing off. Oh, and I don't think she realizes how much it appears to others that she's showing off and how obnoxious it can be just yet. She's also continually nagging Ron and Harry to study. While they need some prompting her tendency to do things like arranging their study schedules for them in SS/PS is just -- irritating. One of the things that's been happening as she progresses through the books is that she has matured. These instances become far fewer and as a result, I find Hermione less irritating in GoF than I did in the earlier books. However, she still has that tendency. But if the trend continues . . . . I'll be able to like Hermione in book 7 far more than I did in SS/PS. Okay, I think I'm done now . This is by far the longest and most time consuming response or post I've ever made . . . Hopefully it makes sense I was going to go on to other posts . . . but I think this is enough for one night. DrMM (now realizing a long, thought-out and eloquent response can take *far* more than 30 minutes) *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com Most recent anime: Shoujo Kakume Utena movie [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 31 05:58:51 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 05:58:51 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <8tkef0+6avd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tln2r+4nr2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4910 > > And for the record, I think I'd like Harry *much* better if I could see > some longer lasting effect of the emotional trauma of his childhood. > Once Harry's gone from the Dursley's he doesn't seem to be affected by > them at all. It all seems so like a caricature that I have a hard time > taking it seriously. > > Wow. I'm verbose today. :) > > DrMM And I may be even more verbose.......Harry does have some effects from the emotional trauma/abuse of the Dursleys (although I think many of us agreed that he didn't have as much as he would have in real life, given that he had NO support, and NO role models while with the Dursleys. In real life, abused kids who do well are found by or find a teacher, older friend, or several who support them and give them hope). Also, some abused kids react by being perfect and overachieving (ah, says the Sorting Hat, a nice thirst to prove yourself). Harry has a hard time trusting adults, confiding in adults, and believing that adults will ever give him a fair shake (Snape doesn't help). He is slowly beginning to trust Sirius, Molly, and Dumbledore. He trusts Hagrid more immediately (imo) because Hagrid is himself different and outcaste, and does not have a lot of power. I like Ron, myself, but I also like Hermione. She stops being obnoxious and gets less and less obnoxious as the books go on and she matures. She wants to succeed, and will do that through book learning. However, she starts breaking rules, and is terrific about supporting her friends. I think she's a great person and don't understand Dr MM why you don't like her. She supports Harry, but more importantly doesn't take advantage of their split to ingratiate herself with one or the other, she tries to get them to be friends again. (And good for Hagrid for reading Ron and Harry the riot act about brooms and pets being more important than friendship. I can see why Hagrid is JKR's favorite character). I also object to the characterization of Molly Weasley as a pushy and obnoxious mother. She has her flaws, absolutely...but she is the ONLY one in the family who is positive about Percy (who after all, is trying to do everything right)..her other flaw is her silly crush on Lockhart..... But she is a great and wonderful mother...she and Arthur have created a warm, loving environment for their children. It's no easy task raising six children (anyone else know the song about Agnes? Lovely Anges who raised them strongwilled and kind). The Burrows is a fun and warm and secure place to be. She worries about her kids, and reminds them of their duties, because that's her role. She also loves them tremendously, which is why Harry turns to her at the end of GofF for care and reassurance. NO MOLLY BASHING! That does NOT mean, however, that the kids don't have issues and insecurities. We all know about Ginny's, and Ron's, and Fred and George's. Yes, Ron is overshadowed by his siblings which is why his dream is to be singular. He gives way to envy and has the fight with Harry, but goodness, gracious me, many adults would also do it if their best friend was constantly feted. The role of sidekick is not easy. He competes for Black's attention (who is focused on Harry). He wants to be told he has potential as an Auror when the fake Moody tells that to Hermione. It's tough stuff for him that once again, Harry takes the center spotlight because he's working through what his life will be like, what his role will be, what his ambitions are...yes, he behaved like a jerk (who hasn't?) but had the grace to apologize and reconcile. That's growth; that's maturity. I think Ron will be tempted to betray Harry for money, and I think he will overcome that temptation. He probably will become Minister of Magic, while Percy will become a monk or something. Also, I don't agree with those who criticize him for continuing to go after Malfoy when Malfoy baits him. His father did the same thing. Harry CAN ignore Malfoy better because Harry IS used to taunts and vicious putdowns. Ron is not. That's not how we was brought up, so he wants to punch Malfoy. Understandable. hermione slaps Malfoy, too (and she comes up with the Polyjuice Potion as a strategy..brilliant AND daring) Remember..Harry doesn't turn the other cheek..he blew up Aunt Marge! She had it coming. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 31 06:10:01 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:10:01 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ron In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001030213226.00a92550@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8tlnnq+1163m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4911 > Note: I don't hate Hermione. There's a difference between being assertive > and willing to share the answers and being obnoxious about it IMO. Just > because Hermione knows all the answers doesn't mean she *has* to display it > in front of the class every single time a question is asked. To me it > doesn't even seem like she gives anyone else the opportunity to answer. > > "The Mandrake forms an essential part of most antidotes. It is also, > however, dangerous. Who can tell me why?" > > Hermione's hand narrowly missed Harry's glasses as it shot up again. > > "The cry of the Mandrake is fatal to anyone who hears it," she said > promptly. (CoS) > > Neville is in the same Herbology class and it's his best subject. He may > have known the answer, but because Hermione insists on answering every > single question so quickly, we just don't know. I have no objection to > raising her hand and telling the answer if no one else knows or if she > doesn't do it as frequently as she does, but she rarely, if ever, gives > anyone else the opportunity to answer. That's why I feel like she's > showing off. Oh, and I don't think she realizes how much it appears to > others that she's showing off and how obnoxious it can be just yet. She's > also continually nagging Ron and Harry to study. While they need some > prompting her tendency to do things like arranging their study schedules > for them in SS/PS is just -- irritating. One of the things that's been > happening as she progresses through the books is that she has > matured. These instances become far fewer and as a result, I find Hermione > less irritating in GoF than I did in the earlier books. However, she still > has that tendency. But if the trend continues . . . . I'll be able to like > Hermione in book 7 far more than I did in SS/PS. > > Okay, I think I'm done now . This is by far the longest and most > time consuming response or post I've ever made . . . Hopefully it makes > sense > I was going to go on to other posts . . . but I think this is enough for > one night. > What so Hermione should censor herself so that the boys, oops, other classmates don't feel bad and have a chance to answer the questions? it's the teacher's responsibility not to call on the smartest/best prepared student and equalize the answers. The student's responsibility is to answer the questions. Dr MM I'm afraid I must suggest that you have problems with females. Sounds like your older sister intimidated you. My older brother (six years older) was a star on the High school basketball team, was in high honors in every class, was extremely popular with girls, and didn't like losing (even to his little sister). I took it as a challenge, competed with him when I could (tennis, pingpong, chess) and carved my own way. Of course, he was actually very kind to me, and helped me along, and my parents were very positive about both of us. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 31 06:16:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:16:59 -0000 Subject: Should Hermione "lighten up"? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001030213226.00a92550@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <8tlo4r+skjo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4912 Well, perhaps I identify with this as a percentage of people always tell me to "lighten up" and I now as an adult can say that it's not in my nature to do so. It got much easier as I got older..but when I was younger, no one wanted to discuss the serious intense issues that I wanted to.. But these days, I can find plenty of people with whom to hang out... Hermione is having fun. She goes to the ball. She has adventures with Ron and Harry. But she loves to study and work and focus on knowledge...there seems to be a thread here that she shouldn't be so intense about knowledge and grades, etc. Why shouldn't she? Maybe she'll be an Einstein or a Madame Curie...or maybe she'll become obsessed with writing seven novels about something the way her creator is.....The obsessors and the driven and the geniuses and the geeks, and the crusaders (SPEW) and the serious ones have a place in the world, even if they are not always liked and admired by those who play quidditch, open joke shops, love to party, etc. Hermione is loved by her friend Harry, and both Ron and Viktor have an incipient romantic interest in her. She's doing real well, why should she change? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 31 06:26:59 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:26:59 -0000 Subject: Poor Rom In-Reply-To: <007601c042cc$599b85a0$70d9d2cc@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8tlonj+2mrv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4913 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" wrote: > Ok, everyone's going off on the qualities of these three friends, poor Ron, or how could Ron have...? or that kind of things. > > > In my experiences with men (hides a cough) including ex's, brothers, cousins, fathers, and other male friends, I have discovered something. Men tend to act like babies sometimes. Now this is not saying that all men on this list are under this classification--but the 25-60 that I know of personally all fit this case! > > 1.)A fight occurs. Rather than A admitting to B that A was wrong, they drag out these fights, and involve everyone around them in their misery. I still haven't figured this out. > > 2.)They know that they are lost, are wrong, whatever, they will continue with the self-deception until the pile of (insert word) is too high to deal with. (Like when you are lost and they refuse to stop at the gas station. This is NOT a caricature!) Or, that they believe a woman who is totally faithful is sleeping with someone else, when they deep down know better. Or to use HP, Ron KNOWS Harry's nature and that Harry never lies to his friends. Faculty, yes, sometimes to avoid trouble. But never to friends, but Ron's following this typical male thing. > > It didn't matter if the men involved with the last paragraph were first born, second, or the last born. They still had that flaw! > > 3.) There are some women who do follow this as well, but not as many as the men! Sorry, guys, you're in the majority in my book. > > Examples can be given upon request, with the names of the guilty withheld. > > (And yes, this is a humorous post....sorry if it offends anyone!) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] You know, I agree that some men act in this way, and some women act in gender stereotypical ways (giggling, running in packs, avoiding conflict, being passive aggressive, meaning being sweet to people's faces, and then trashing them in private, being hyper critical of other girls/women, deep down being negative about themselves). We laugh about it therefore saying that the negative ways we behave are about boys will be boys and girls will be girls. I'd like to think we could all be human and deal decently with each other. Men could ask for help (directions); women could be direct. susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Oct 31 06:34:47 2000 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:34:47 -0000 Subject: Peter (& Disney) In-Reply-To: <8tl5cf+prtj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tlp67+7n6r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4914 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise Rogers" > wrote: > >Pocahontas is the acceptance of people, savages, despite their race > Savages? Were the people who lived in the U.S.A. before Columbus arrived savages? I'm not so sure.... Have you read the Iriquois statement of confederation upon which the U.S. constitution was partially based? And despite their race? do you mean, despite the fact that they weren't white, because after all white is better, and we should accept those people even if they are non-white? Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Oct 31 06:56:23 2000 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley ) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:56:23 -0000 Subject: Whither Gryffindor Quidditch? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20001030154957.021bc640@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <8tlqen+nf7m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4915 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 06:21 PM 10/30/00 +0000, Steve Vander Ark wrote: > >The past year was a wash, since there was no Quidditch. That means no > >one has been training. Wood is gone, so this coming year someone else > >will have to be the captain... > > My guess is that the Gryffindor victory in PoA is the "Happy Ending" to > the Quidditch saga and that JKR will find a way to keep the house tournaments > from taking place for the rest of the series. (V's new Reign of Terror > will probably > be the excuse.) > > -- Dave Do you really think so? I hadn't thought of that. What a drag, I like Quidditch. JKR likes it too, maybe she'll find a way to keep it going. I hope for at least one more year. And, speaking of Oliver being gone, won't Angelina be gone too? She was able to enter her name in the goblet; the selection was on Halloween, she said her birthday was a week before. If she's still a sixth year, late October is pretty early in the school year to have her seventeenth birthday. Or is that how it works--since you have to be eleven to enter HW, you have to be whatever age going into whatever school year? What I mean is, she was sixteen when the school year started, so she ~is~ a sixth year? Kelley From SHENmagic at aol.com Tue Oct 31 07:06:35 2000 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:06:35 EST Subject: Song Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4916 "I am the very model of an Adult Harry Potter Fan" sung to the song of a similar title from the Pirates of Penzance " I'll have to find it and post it to the files section of the egroup page. Pretty pleasel-will you e-mail it to me? The song from Pirates would be "I am the very model of a modern major General" - I'd love it ! (And if you can get a hold of the video of Pirates of Penzance, with Kevin Kline as the Pirate, and Linda Ronstandt as Buttercup...well you're in for some good enjoyment). Aylihael, heading over to PoU files for the latest chapter..... From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 31 11:51:04 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:51:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Song References: Message-ID: <002401c04330$da2dcde0$7edd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4917 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 2:06 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Song > "I am the very model of an > > Adult Harry Potter Fan" sung to the song of a similar title from the Pirates > > of Penzance " I'll have to find it and > > post it to the files section of the egroup page. > > Pretty pleasel-will you e-mail it to me? The song from Pirates would be "I > am the very model of a modern major General" - I'd love it ! The Gilbert & Sullivan Parody Archive offers a large collection of G&S take-offs. http://www.ology.org/eschat/parody/ As you might expect, the most frequently parodied work is the Major General's song from Pirates of Penzance. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 31 12:13:03 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:13:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] THERE WILL BE A FEMALE DARK ARTS TEACHER!!!!! References: <5d.22510cf.2720e9f6@aol.com> Message-ID: <051a01c04333$ebfea0a0$7edd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4918 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 7:21 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] THERE WILL BE A FEMALE DARK ARTS TEACHER!!!!! > Hey, guys!! Straight from Jo's mouth, on the Live AOL Chat, she just revealed > that there will be a FEMAIL Defense of the Dark Arts Teacher!! Cool,huh?! > Heeheheheh!! But the bad news is that it's going to be Professor Trelawney.... - CMC From s_ings at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 12:09:03 2000 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 04:09:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] [Fwd: Found the article] Message-ID: <20001031120903.27396.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4919 Thanks for the clarification on the article, Amanda. Sheryll --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Hi, list. Sally of the Rickman newsletter found the > article she got the > Satanist reference from; here it is. FWIW. > > --Amanda > > Or so author JK Rowling was informed when she gave a > special reading from Harry Potter and The Goblet of > Fire at the International Festival of Authors in > Toronto. Left stunned in front of 10,000 fans, > Rowling > was barely able to respond to accusations that Harry > encourages Satanism, responding to one such > allegation: No. You are a lunatic. Rowling went on > to deny any belief in the occult and any connection > whatsoever to Lucifer and his wicked minions. > ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Oct 31 12:41:57 2000 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon J. Branford) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:41:57 -0000 Subject: Teachers, older siblings, weasley's and something OT on the storms in the UK Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4920 Susan wrote: "What so Hermione should censor herself so that the boys, oops, other classmates don't feel bad and have a chance to answer the questions? it's the teacher's responsibility not to call on the smartest/best prepared student and equalize the answers. The student's responsibility is to answer the questions." Which leads me to the question: Why do several of the teachers always seem to ask Hermione for the answers. They seem quite bad at getting student participation in classes. Susan wrote: "My older brother (six years older) was a star on the High school basketball team, was in high honors in every class, was extremely popular with girls, and didn't like losing (even to his little sister). I took it as a challenge, competed with him when I could (tennis, pingpong, chess) and carved my own way. Of course, he was actually very kind to me, and helped me along, and my parents were very positive about both of us." This can work the other way as well. I have always been the academic of the family and my brother has always been the more social of the two of us. He is 3 years older than me and teachers spent ages trying to get him to do more by comparing my achievements to his. Not that any of this worked! I do feel envious of his social skills but have learnt to live with the fact that we are different people and always be so. Dr MM wrote: "But just because one child is like you, does that mean you should shower gifts (like owls) on them that you don't give your other children?" Molly hardly showers gifts on Percy. The owl he gets for being made a prefect comes from Arthur and the robes he was treated to make the right impression for the family name - you cannot have your family shown up by your son, as prefect, having tatty robes. This is hardly showering someone with gifts. Molly does give a lot of attention to Percy but she seems to do this to all of her children. Eggplant wrote: "You're giving reasons why Ron was an ass, perhaps your theory is correct, perhaps not, it doesn't matter, he's still an ass, he still unjustly called his best friend a liar. I happen to think that's a very big deal, I think it would permanently poison most friendships, it's just lucky for Ron that Harry has a forgiving nature. Few people are fortunate enough to have a friend as good as Harry and Ron almost threw it away." I did not think that Ron did call Harry a liar (I have lent my copy of GoF to a friend and so cannot check what is said). I thought that Ron just made comments that Harry was hiding some information from him. Not sharing his secrets for fear of getting into trouble. Julia wrote: "I hope that anyone who may have had to endure the massive storm in the UK/Ireland last night is doing alright. I heard a story about it on National Public Radio on my dinner break tonight. I guess there was 90mph winds and lots of damage. A good chunk of southern England is without power (of course that may have changed now) and I heard there was damage all the way up to the midlands. I know there are some people on this list that live overseas. I hope you're all alright!" I have not personally been affected but it does seem to be very bad. From what I have heard it sounds as if my parents would have been affected by the power losses (they were out when I rang earlier - said before someone makes some comment about showing a lack of caring for them). Simon (Sorry for the incoherent nature of this message - have been eating lunch while typing) PS: I have finished my work for the week - so now can sit back, relax and read The Truth by Terry Pratchett. Just have to hold off until after my class this afternoon - if I start reading now I will never go to it! From vderark at bccs.org Tue Oct 31 14:08:03 2000 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:08:03 -0000 Subject: Whither Gryffindor Quidditch? In-Reply-To: <8tlqen+nf7m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <8tmjo3+sa5a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4921 > > > > My guess is that the Gryffindor victory in PoA is the "Happy > Ending" to > > the Quidditch saga > Do you really think so? I hadn't thought of that. What a drag, I > like Quidditch. JKR likes it too, maybe she'll find a way to keep it > going. I hope for at least one more year. I really can't imagine that Quidditch won't be a part of the rest of the series. I think GF represents a VERY unusual year at Hogwarts and that Quidditch will be back big time next year. Either that or there'll be a mutiny. But who will be Keeper? Who will be captain? And, speaking of Oliver > being gone, won't Angelina be gone too? She was able to enter her > name in the goblet; the selection was on Halloween, she said her > birthday was a week before. If she's still a sixth year, late > October is pretty early in the school year to have her seventeenth > birthday. Or is that how it works--since you have to be eleven to > enter HW, you have to be whatever age going into whatever school > year? What I mean is, she was sixteen when the school year started, > so she ~is~ a sixth year? That brings up the whole question of how old Hermione is for almost the entire school year. Is the cut-off date really Sept 1, no variation? Then Hermione turned 12 two weeks after the start of PS/SS and she is almost a year older than Harry. If that's the way it works, Angelina was 16 at the start of GF and turned 17 a month later and a half later, just in time to qualify for the tournament. That would put her in her 4th year in GF and now is going into her 7th year. As I read the books and write timelines (I'm doing detailed timelines now of each book, day by day), I am coming quickly to the conclusion that in JKR's universe, time fits nice little patterns. September 1 is always a Sunday because September 2, the first day of classes, is always the start of a week. In this way of thinking, the September 1 cutoff for starting Hogwarts is a given. You get your mail from Hogwarts on your 11th birthday, you come to school on the following September 1, no matter where they fall relative to each other. But Hermione is referred to as being 13 at one point in PA. (To be fair, Harry and Hermione together are referred to as a pair of 13- year-old wizards). So maybe common sense DID enter into it in her case, being as bright as she is, and she actually entered Hogwarts while she was still 10 and turned 11 two weeks later. To me, that makes perfect sense. And if we accept the idea that intention drives most magic, the system would nicely adjust itself to accept Hermione when it made sense to do so. Just as an aside, I have to say how fascinating it is to actually timeline one of these books, figuring out what day things must have happened from this or that little clue. I start to realize just how disconnected from reality the HP universe really is... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Oct 31 15:04:22 2000 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi tandy) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:04:22 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter and the Satanic Conspiracy Message-ID: <8tmn1m+eq14@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4922 LONDON, England (Reuters) -- Harry Potter mania has prompted children across the world to swap their devil's horns for a pair of broken spectacles this Halloween, but for some the craze for the fictional boy wizard proves that Satan is in our midst. Campaigns against the smash-hit tales of fantastic adventures are gaining momentum as Potter fans prepare to wield their magic wands to mark Tuesday's pagan festival. "The Harry Potter Books are ... recruiting tools for witchcraft and the occult," American Christian group Freedom Village USA said on their web site. The rest of the article is at http://www.cnn.com/2000/books/news/10/30/arts.harry.reut/ - and you can make comments as well. From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 31 15:16:58 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:16:58 -0600 Subject: In Defense of Ron, Hermione as Braggart & Related Stuff Message-ID: <39FEE26A.8E6D590C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4923 Hi -- Well, miracles never cease! I'm at last in agreement with *both* Susan and Eggplant on an issue! Dr MM wrote: > I think, despite someone's best efforts, it's difficult to understand the POV > of beng a younger sibling. Older children always have the advantage of doing something > first. They go to school first, they get to drive first . . . > Ahem! The above shows you haven't tried very hard to understand the POV of an older sibling. Well . . . uh . . . like Ebony said, there's a LOT of responsibility that goes with being the oldest child. The oldest child is expected to be nothing short of perfect in most cases -- that's why most oldest children end up being classed as "Type A" personalities. And, like Ebony said, the parents have all the "kinks" worked out by the time they get to the younger sibling(s). Here's just but one example from my life: I wanted to move off-campus to an apt for my junior yr in college. Despite pleading & hard evidence of how much cheaper it would be all the way around, it was a no go. They finally relented for my sr yr. One yr later, my younger sister departs for college, in a bigger city and with a bigger campus. Guess who got an off-campus apt their *freshman* year! Yep! It's NOT easy being the pioneer for *everything* with the parents. I fought ALL the battles. I would wager that you're not putting yourself in your sister's shoes too much. Things might not have been so rosy from her end either, you know. And, I don't see how you can possibly argue that it's only possible to be truly overshadowed by a sibling if you're the *younger* sibling. Like Simon, my family had one academic child (me) and one social child (my sister). Doesn't matter which order it was -- I *was* jealous of & overshadowed by her social successes, and she was jealous of & overshadowed by my academic successes. Being overshadowed is NOT limited to being the younger kid! Good grief! > I see no evidence that > any of Ron's family (except Ginny in CoS for being friends with Harry -- > oh, and Fred & George about the flying car) are envious of anything that > Ron has done. > We may not see envy, but we do see pride. Percy was so proud of Ron's getting past McGonagall's chess set in SS, remember? And, the Weasleys show family closeness and concern for one another all the time. His accomplishments do get rewarded with praise and attention. > DrMM (now realizing a long, thought-out and eloquent response can take > *far* more than 30 minutes) > Yes! It can . . . . Shifting to Susan Susan said: > I like Ron, myself, but I also like Hermione. She stops being > obnoxious and gets less and less obnoxious as the books go on and she > matures. She wants to succeed, and will do that through book learning. > However, she starts breaking rules, and is terrific about supporting > her friends. I think she's a great person and don't understand Dr MM > why you don't like her. She supports Harry, but more importantly > doesn't take advantage of their split to ingratiate herself with one > or the other, she tries to get them to be friends again. > I agree -- she's less & less of a bossy bookworm, even by the end of SS. Her friendship with Harry & Ron helps her grow as a person. And, she's really grown alot by GoF IMO. > Hermione slaps Malfoy, too (and she comes up with the Polyjuice Potion as a strategy..brilliant > AND daring) > Yes . . . Ron and Harry didn't want to go along with that plan in the beginning. She's already showing a streak of independence . . .thinking outside the box . . . stepping outside her comfort zone of books and rules. Great point Susan! Adding it to my character summary . . . . > What so Hermione should censor herself so that the boys, oops, other > classmates don't feel bad and have a chance to answer the questions? > > It's the teacher's responsibility not to call on the smartest/best > prepared student and equalize the answers. The student's responsibility > is to answer the questions. > ABSOLUTELY! I agree 100% with this one. My sister is a teacher, and she's done some master's papers on this subject (which I'm familiar with mainly because I serve as her editor -- ). Hermione is assertive in class . . . and Amen! There's a huge problem with girl students being left behind from the earliest years in elementary school because the teachers "favor" the boys in math & science lessons. They call on them & use them as examples, etc. If Hermione is getting all the glory in class, well . . . it's either because none of the others try and answer questions or because the teachers are singling her out at the expense of the others. Lupin seems to do a good job of letting her shine now & again but making the other students feel important too. Snape, OTOH, derides her for her enthusiasm and knowledge . . . . even when she's clearly the only one brave enough to try & answer his questions. > Hermione is having fun. She goes to the ball. She has adventures with > Ron and Harry. But she loves to study and work and focus on > knowledge...there seems to be a thread here that she shouldn't be > so intense about knowledge and grades, etc. Why shouldn't she? > Maybe she'll be an Einstein or a Madame Curie...or maybe she'll > become obsessed with writing seven novels about something the way her > creator is.....The obsessors and the driven and the geniuses and the > geeks, and the crusaders (SPEW) and the serious ones have a place in > the world, even if they are not always liked and admired by those who play quidditch, open joke shops, love > to party, etc. > ABSOLUTELY agree with this one too! Hermione (who *is* my favorite character *and* the one I identify most with on many levels) is the "full package" as my husband would say. She's got it all -- brains, social conscience, friends who love her, the ability to be more than just a "plain Jane" when she chooses (both Harry and Ron were floored by her appearance at the Yule Ball), the ability to take risks and have fun! She's a winner all the way around in my book. Eggplant wrote: > >Brian wrote: > >Since I haven't seen anyone else give examples for the "Hermione's > >an obnoxious braggart" issue, I would like to bring up her > >statement that she got something like 112% on Flitwick's test and > >her following statement "they're not going to throw *me* out after > that!". > > Let's put that remark in context. She said she should be the one to > actually steal the ingredients for the polly juice potion from Snape, > a pretty gutsy thing to do by the way. When asked why she be the one > to do this dangerous job she explained, accurately I think, why she > was less likely to be expelled if caught than Ron or Harry. I like > Hermione and she has no need to apologize for being smart. > Yep -- that was going to be my point but Eggplant beat me to it. She's *still* not bragging in my mind. I have yet to see any evidence of her "bragging." But, I'm working on the Hermione character FAQ this morning & will be going through the books with a fine-tooth comb. Will be on the lookout, I assure you. MOLLY WEASLEY -- I agree with Susan and Simon. The owl was a gift for being made a prefect, and it was from Arthur. Percy is hardly *showered* with gifts. The Burrow is a great place to grow up, and it's apparent that both Arthur & Molly love their kids unconditionally. I think Percy gets extra attention from Molly, but like I said, *I* think it's because he's the most like her. He's a bit pompous and bossy (Molly is too), he walks the straight & narrow and is constantly reminding everyone of the "rules" (Molly there too), and he has a strong sense of ambition that I wager he gets from Molly. All in all, I think Ron is just missing the boat with his family -- he wants the fame and fortune so badly that he forgets to look and see what he does have, something so much more important than fame and wealth to most people (especially Harry) -- a loving family who support him unconditionally. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 31 15:33:04 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:33:04 -0600 Subject: Sam -- Reminder re: Chapter 17 & Other Students Message-ID: <39FEE630.22C87547@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4924 Hi -- Sam, you're up for Ch 17 & discussion of the "lesser" students (Seamus, Lavender, etc.). Let us know if you've had a problem! Penny From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 31 16:24:16 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:24:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Song References: Message-ID: <39FEF230.F34E512F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4925 Hey, list gods, why don't you make a separate section of the eGroups site for filk songs? (for those who don't know this term, a filk is a song that puts new words, usually spoof words, to familiar tunes). We're starting to amass quite a sterling collection. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Oct 31 16:26:37 2000 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:26:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] THERE WILL BE A FEMALE DARK ARTS TEACHER!!!!! References: <5d.22510cf.2720e9f6@aol.com> <051a01c04333$ebfea0a0$7edd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <39FEF2BD.AB233ED1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4926 Caius Marcius wrote: > > that there will be a FEMAIL Defense of the Dark Arts Teacher!! Cool,huh?! > > Heeheheheh!! > > But the bad news is that it's going to be Professor Trelawney.... Oh, Caius, you are such a little *sunspot*! Always seeing the bright side! Try to tune the Pollyanna down, eh? --Amanda From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 16:20:55 2000 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforths_Goat) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:20:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter and the Satanic Conspiracy References: <8tmn1m+eq14@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007601c04356$908ecce0$1500a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 4927 Listen, I don't know whether I should even talk about this just now. Some members of one of the churches I work in took to circulating an article from a (small, German) Christian magazine quoting an interview in which Jo blasphemes profusely and pronounces herself a card-carrying Satanist. As I found out later, some religious creep happened upon that piece published back in July by www.onion.com (for the record, I didn't really find it funny) and spammed his whole address book with a letter quoting the article as though it were real news. The blithering idiots who received his spam happily dashed off to publish their "news," content to have documentary proof of what they'd know all along. I'm so mad I could eat the carpet. As a dedicated Christian, I think we should harbor at least a little respect for what that guy said about treating other people the way we would like to be treated ourselves. But perhaps I'm misjudging ... after all that was 2000 years ago. And besides, said guy was probably just another one of those liberal-hippie-long hairs. Or maybe the author of the article likes being slandered and figured JKR would enjoy it as much as he does. It's just too much. I've got the editor's phone number and hope he'll print a retraction. I also hope I didn't offend anybody with my rant. If it were members of some other faith doing it, I don't think I'd feel so hurt. Anyway ... back to our regular programming ... Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 31 18:00:59 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 18:00:59 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <973015259.51482@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4928 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Song Parodies/Pirates of Hogwarts.txt Uploaded by : klaatu at primenet.com Description : Song parody You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Song+Parodies/Pirates+of+Hogwarts%2Etxt To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, klaatu at primenet.com From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 31 18:01:29 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 18:01:29 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <973015289.51569@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4929 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Song Parodies/Death Eaters' Song.txt Uploaded by : klaatu at primenet.com Description : Song parody You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Song+Parodies/Death+Eaters%27+Song%2Etxt To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, klaatu at primenet.com From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 31 18:02:35 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 18:02:35 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <973015355.51753@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4930 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Song Parodies/Snape!.txt Uploaded by : klaatu at primenet.com Description : Song parody You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Song+Parodies/Snape%21%2Etxt To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, klaatu at primenet.com From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 18:48:30 2000 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rogers) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 12:48:30 -0600 Subject: Popups, off topic, but a concern... References: Message-ID: <004401c0436b$2c28b1c0$55dc5d18@neo.rr.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4931 I have started getting something very odd. When I open my email for the egroup, I get a "freebies" popup. I wondered if anyone else is being harassed by such a thing, or if it's localized to my computer. I cannot find the cookie to delete it--it's not in COOKIES,TEMP,TEMP.I.F,DOWNLOADED...,or anywhere where else I discovered to check due to working the computer labs with the lovely non-computer literate students who download the strange unremovable files.... If you can get it, let me know! It's from ZMedia. I will now include a copy of the html code for the pop-up, just in case.... Free Stuff by Email
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 31 18:20:02 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 18:20:02 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <973016402.18814@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4932 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Song Parodies/12 Days of Terror Uploaded by : larrick at yazaki-na.com Description : song parody You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Song+Parodies/12+Days+of+Terror To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, larrick at yazaki-na.com From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 31 19:14:41 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 19:14:41 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <973019681.2880@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4933 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Song Parodies/Piratesof Hogwarts2.doc Uploaded by : lrcjestes at msn.com Description : I am the very Model Parody part 2...Randy gets carried away sometimes You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Song+Parodies/Piratesof+Hogwarts2%2Edoc To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, lrcjestes at msn.com From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 31 19:20:28 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 19:20:28 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <973020028.4023@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4934 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Song Parodies/ohJKR.doc Uploaded by : lrcjestes at msn.com Description : Sung to Oh Very Young by Cat Stevens...another Randy original You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Song+Parodies/ohJKR%2Edoc To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, lrcjestes at msn.com From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Oct 31 20:06:15 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:06:15 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter at Gloucester Cathedral References: <39FE0E22.448317C3@texas.net> Message-ID: <002301c04376$0776c500$e751063e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4935 Actually, there was an article about the filming at one of the Cathedrals in a magazine the other week. A lot of it's background info about the location, but it's quite interesting (interesting enough for me to keep it with my Harry Potter cuttings anyway) and there are some opinions of various inhabitants of Gloucester on the merits and demerits of filming Harry Potter at the Cathedral - most of the objectors haven't even read the books but proclaim that they know all about their evil content - clever, that. If anyone's interested, I'll type up the article, though bear with me, as it's quite long and may take me some time. There's also quite a nice shot of one of the classrooms. Alix ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 12:11 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] [Fwd: Found the article] > Hi, list. Sally of the Rickman newsletter found the article she got the > Satanist reference from; here it is. FWIW. > Slurs of evil content seem to be plaguing poor Harry > after the film shoot was forced to abandon its > proposed filming at Gloucester Cathedral amid a sea of > similar accusations. Parishioners, concerned about the > book's promotion of 'pagan ideals', staged protests > which forced the crew to relocate to Durham instead. > However, with excitement over the upcoming film of > Harry Potter and The Philosopher's Stone growing > exponentially and fresh converts picking up his books > every day, it would seem that the threat of hell and > damnation is simply not what it used to be. From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Tue Oct 31 20:30:41 2000 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:30:41 -0000 Subject: Teachers, older siblings,& OT storms in the UK References: Message-ID: <009001c04379$921494a0$7cf1883e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 4936 > Susan wrote: "> it's the teacher's responsibility not to call on the smartest/best prepared > student and equalize the answers. The student's responsibility is to answer > the questions." > > Simon wrote: "Which leads me to the question: Why do several of the teachers always seem > to ask Hermione for the answers. They seem quite bad at getting student > participation in classes." > Couldn't resist puttting my oar in here since it concerns differentiation which I am struggling to write 1500 words about for Monday. Susan is 100% right, it is the teachers job not only to encourage and call on all the students to answer but to ask questions at different levels which everyone has a chance of being able to answer. A student such as Neville paraphrases GoF who never volunteers in xclass except Herbology should be encouraged to take an active part by his teachers. Snape is a particularly poor example but I don't recall anyone practising it properly. Hogwarts apeears to be run rather like a selective private school where excellence is all and only top students count. Not that I can talk I went to one like that and loved it (but then I was top when I wanted to be, not so much fun if you are always bottom.) However when all is said and done the books are written from Harry's pov and to a lesser extent Hermione and Ron and I doubt if they notice or care about teaching methods. > This can work the other way as well. I have always been the academic of the > family and my brother has always been the more social of the two of us. He > is 3 years older than me and teachers spent ages trying to get him to do > more by comparing my achievements to his. A similar situation exists between my brother and myself I always did well at school and at eleven passed entrance exams for a selective school and was moved out of the state school system. My brother who is dyslexic decided he could not live up to this and so stopped trying. I regret to say when I was younger I deeply resented what I considered to be the exaggerated and out of proportion praise he was given for getting 4 out of 10 or a C when I regulary scored 9 out of ten and got A's and was not nearly so heavily praised and consequently I gave him a very hard time. I regret this now. Worsts of all our younger sister takes after me abd well-meaning relatives still make comparisons. "your sisters doing post-grad, your younger sister can read more than you can aren't you ashamed etc" This comes under the guise of encouragement! Needless to say I no longer mind if my parents lavish praise on his achievements As for the Weasleys I do think Molly over praises Percy but I think she is trying to compensate for his poor social skills and lack of charisma (which lets face it his other brothers do possess) and he doesn't appear to have any friends. I suspect Ron gets better marks than the twins although JKR never mentions it. As for the storm I can't answer for everyone else but I am fine except that as there were no trains it took me 3 hours to get to college. Out of 200 students only 50 arrived. I did wonder why I'd bothered when I could have stayed in bed instead. Heather From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Oct 31 20:51:27 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:51:27 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? References: <39F71E35.7985E92@earthlink.net> <39F75596.9625BD11@swbell.net> <39F768E3.E1FF62F5@texas.net> <39F79EE6.42A7C05A@ibm.net> <011401c03f05$c7d6bfa0$8643ddcf@oemcomputer> <39F814A3.819A5061@alumni.upenn.edu> <013d01c03f59$ccbdbd80$9bfa883e@default> Message-ID: <013301c0437c$57cf8f40$e751063e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4937 ----- Original Message ----- From: Heather Edmonds To: Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] HP tour? > Sadly I'm not a travel agent, but I think it sounds like a great idea and I > hereby volunteer to deal with the Devon bits. IIRC Simon is a Dorset > dweller, when he's not in Oxford so he might know the area too. Off the top > of my head so far the trip would visit Devon, Scotland, Surrey, Gower > Peninsula ish and London. Any other places I've forgotten? Whee do people > think the Quidditch World Cup was held? I've been thinking about isolated > areas but haven't yet come up with anything conclusive. I hereby volunteer for Cornish duty, if anybody fancies a whizz round there. > However a more suitable vehicle than my Metro would have to be begged, > borrowed or conjured for any trip as I fear it wouldn't stand the pace > (anyway it only holds 4). Ah, bless it - I can get five in at a push, but sadly I think after 6 years of faithful service, it's on its last legs and I might have to wave goodbye to my little metro.... Alix From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Oct 31 20:55:03 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:55:03 -0000 Subject: Pirates of Hogwarts References: <973015259.51482@egroups.com> Message-ID: <014701c0437c$d8b32a40$e751063e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4938 Oh this was brilliant - I often use the original version as a warm-up, but I think this will be much more entertaining. Please pass my praise onto your talented hubby, Carole. And now I'm off to read Ch 10 of ASA.... Alix From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Oct 31 21:03:05 2000 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:03:05 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] UK merchandise? References: <8tlfi5+ardo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015101c0437d$f7f9f360$e751063e@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4939 Funny you should mention this, but this is something I took up with my local WB store in Bluewater. We seem to be so behind on getting the merchandise compared to the US, so I asked what the deal was and apparently because the UK WB stores are concessions, we only get to take delivery of stuff when all the US stores have been supplied, which is why we're so behind things, and some of the stuff won't make it over here at all - like the Christmas decorations, sob! Not that I want to deprive US potter fans of goodies, but it seems a wee bit unfair that we're not getting to see stuff considering Harry's a Brit! Mind you, I know that even in the US, people are having trouble getting the stuff that they want, so maybe it's just demand is way outstripping supply. Alix ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2000 3:50 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] UK merchandise? > Just wondering - is there (or has anyone heard that there will be) > merchandise specific to the UK? Seems appropriate, since it's > Harry's home. > > Chris > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 31 21:31:10 2000 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (neptune_1984 at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:31:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: You've received a postcard from Anake Nisaba! Message-ID: <200010312131.NAA01083@webeye.marty.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4940 You have just received a virtual postcard from Anake Nisaba! You can pick up your postcard at the following web address: http://www.postcards.org/?75-occurs-thick-hpforgrownups If you can't click on the web address above, you can also visit 1001 Postcards at http://www.postcards.org/postcards/ and enter your pickup code, which is: 75-occurs-thick-hpforgrownups (Your postcard will be available for 60 days.) Oh -- and if you'd like to reply with a postcard, you can do so by visiting this web address: http://www.postcards.org/go/postcards/qreply/75-occurs-thick-hpforgrownups (Or you can simply click the "reply to this postcard" button beneath your postcard!) We hope you enjoy your postcard, and if you do, please take a moment to send a few yourself! Regards, 1001 Postcards http://www.postcards.org/postcards/ P.S.: Please take a moment to visit Stop The Hunger! You can feed a hungry person just by pressing a button. It won't cost you a penny, and there are no forms to fill out. Sponsors pay for your donation, which you can make once a day. Please visit: http://www.stopthehunger.com (tell your friends!) ------------------------------------------------ Introducing the 1001 Postcards weekly newsletter! Click here to subscribe for free to 'Greetings from Marty & Alice': http://browse.postcards.org/go/postcards/newsletter?action=subscribe&email=HPforGrownups at egroups.com ------------------------------------------------ 1001 Postcards is a totally free service, paid for by our sponsors, so please support us by taking a moment to check out our sponsors' sites: * Want to see the website designed by Marty's current roommate? :) * Steal This Movie! is the new movie about activist Abbie Hoffmann * that stars Janeane Garafolo and Vincent D'Onofrio. It got * "Two Thumbs Up!" from Ebert & The Movies. Check it out! * Please visit: http://www.stealthismovie.com/ * Have you signed up for our sponsor mailing lists yet? They're a * great way to learn about special offers and services in your * areas of interest, while helping keep 1001 Postcards free at the * same time! (And of course, they're free too!) To find out more, * Please visit: http://www.postcards.org/postcards/pmdform1.html ------------------------------------------------ And in case you were wondering... 1. This is a free service! 2. We don't sell email addresses to anyone! 3. You can find a printable version of your postcard at this web address: http://www.postcards.org/go/postcards/pickup/75-occurs-thick-hpforgrownups/printok 4. We like it when people tell us what they like about the service! And constructive criticism too, just not as much. :) 5. If you need help with your postcard, contact the 1001 Post Office at mailto:postoffice at postcards.org, and we'll try to help! 6. We don't accept donations, but if you must, why not make a donation to the charity of your choice in our name, and send us the receipt? 7. We're supported by our advertisers! If you'd like to help keep us going, check out the various sponsorship buttons on our site, and visit any you find interesting! 8. We hope you have a smurfy day! ------------------------------------------------ sender-ip: 63.48.2.166 From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 31 21:23:08 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:23:08 -0600 Subject: Chapter/Character Discussions Reminders Message-ID: <39FF383C.A7ACC210@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4941 Hi -- Just a reminder for the next few weeks about who's up & when: This week -- Ch 17 & the "Other Students" (Seamus, Lavender, Dean, Parvarti, Creevys) -- Sam Next week -- Ch 18 & Mr. Ollivander --- Ebony Nov 13-19 -- Ch 19 & Molly Weasley -- Jess Nov 20 -26 -- Ch 20 & Barty Crouch (Sr. & Jr.) -- Bonnie You can check the schedule at any time by looking at: http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html Let me know if anyone needs to switch or cancel. Thanks, Penny From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 31 22:11:17 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:11:17 -0000 Subject: Old News - but interesting Message-ID: <001c01c04387$7ff3bd60$37977ed4@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 4942 Hi all I've survived the storms undamaged... and it's not flooding where I am either - maybe I was wise to buy a house on top of a hill. Anyway, just been looking through some archives, and found this interesting piece on The Times site regarding the Harry Potter play which a school in England was to do prior to Christmas: ------- http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,24573,00.html WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 25 2000 Rowling to visit school after banning its Potter play BY DAVID CHARTER EDUCATION CORRESPONDENT J. K. ROWLING has apologised after lawyers forced her to withdraw permission from a school to stage the world premiere of a Harry Potter play. North Foreland Lodge School, Hampshire, thought it had beaten Hollywood to stage the first performance of one of Ms Rowlings wizard stories. The authors change of heart, which has devastated the teenage girl cast, came after her advisers insisted that the school could not be allowed to set a precedent, even though it was a charity event. More than 1,000 requests to adapt Harry Potter for the stage had been turned down but the schools request slipped through after its letter was personally answered by the author. Sue Cameron, headmistress of the 14,500-a-year boarding school, said that the girls were upset about the decision. Andrew Fielding, the schools actor-in-residence, who spent the summer adapting Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone, was now working overtime to find a new Christmas production. Ms Cameron said: We were over the moon when we got permission, so this was a real bolt from the blue, like the magic wand of an evil wizard. She said she attached no blame to Ms Rowling, who telephoned the school to arrange a personal visit instead. I spoke to her and she was very apologetic and embarrassed this had happened and said she will come to visit. I think there is so much contractual and legal rigmarole which she has not been used to before. The fact that this has happened just shows the hype over the Harry Potter phenomenon. But theres no point in crying over spilt milk. We are being very positive and looking forward to her visit. ---- Just typical of Warner Bros. Jo allows a school to perform a play, and WB Lawyers come down like a ton of bricks - and Jo is left to pick up the pieces. I wonder what Jo thinks of WB now. BTW, anyone worked out why WB have registered those trademarks which seem like Book Titles yet? I really must get down to writing to Jo and asking her about those. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 31 22:13:29 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:13:29 -0000 Subject: Popups, off topic, but a concern... In-Reply-To: <004401c0436b$2c28b1c0$55dc5d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <8tng69+fsso@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4943 > I have started getting something very odd. When I open my email for the egroup, I get a "freebies" popup. I wondered if anyone else is being harassed by such a thing, or if it's localized to my computer. Hi, I've had nothing strange, but then again I have been on digest for the past few days due to going away. I would suggest that you log in to Egroups, and make sure that you have asked Egroups to only sent mail in TEXT (ASCII), and not HTML. That will help get rid of a lot of the annoying Banners and associated things. Nick From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 31 22:24:25 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:24:25 -0000 Subject: UK merchandise? In-Reply-To: <015101c0437d$f7f9f360$e751063e@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <8tngqp+blcs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4944 > Funny you should mention this, but this is something I took up with my local WB store in Bluewater. WB UK tell a new story every time they are asked. This is certianly not what thier Head Office told me back in June. If anyone feels like writing to WB UK - their address is: THE COMMERCIAL DIRECTOR WARNER BROS STUDIO STORES LIMITED 1 TENISON COURT OFF REGENT STREET LONDON W1R 5LP >Not that I want to deprive US potter fans of goodies, but >it seems a wee bit unfair that we're not getting to see stuff considering Harry's a Brit! Quite. Did you read my article at http://www.broomsticks.org It's staying there until WBros does something about it - they can't sue me as it's all true and they know it. Just a thought Alix, have you complained to Watchdog? Please do visit their site - www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog and fill in the form with a complaint along the lines of it not being fair for us Brits not to be getting the HP merchandise, when HP is a British thing. If more people complain, Watchdog may take up the campaign for us - and get WB to release first in the UK... after most if not all is IMPORTED to the US anyway, very little is made there - so why do the WB UK stores have to buy through the US, can't they go direct to the suppliers? >Mind you, I know that even in the US, people are having > trouble getting the stuff that they want, so maybe it's just demand is way outstripping supply. Yes, that as well, but WB really should have known that would happen. I have finally recieved an invoice for my Bookends... though no bookends yet. Only 3 and half months late! I wonder when the bookends themselves will arrive. >> Just wondering - is there (or has anyone heard that there will be) >> merchandise specific to the UK? Seems appropriate, since it's >> Harry's home. No... but the 2001 Calendar is sort of UK specific, as it's printed here - so in terms of a collectors item, collectors will probably want both the UK printed version and the US printed version - that is, if Calendars are worth collecting. WH Smith are selling Calendars - they have some stores at Airports in the US, so those of you in the US may be able to find the UK Calendars there. Nick Who is very unhappy that WB is ignoring the UK. From jinxster at cyberlass.com Tue Oct 31 22:05:57 2000 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:05:57 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron, Hermione and insecurities (this is probably quite long) References: Message-ID: <010601c04389$8f6deb60$c68e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 4945 > ::sticks neck out:: Actually, I reckon that Ron will be Quidditch Captain. > See, if Harry's Seeker, he's by nature removed from the rest of the game and > the other players. I realise that Cedric was both, but IMHO I don't think > JKR would have Harry getting ALL the glory. > > --John > ===================================================== > John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com ICQ: 96203920 Yeah, but Ron's never played A-side Quidditch before. Captains need to be among the older more experienced players. Which makes me think one of the Chasers, probably Angelina, will get it. Jinx From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Oct 31 22:30:41 2000 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 22:30:41 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <973031441.54880@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4946 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Song Parodies/p13.mid Uploaded by : nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Description : Midi File - just in case you don't know the tune! You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Song+Parodies/p13%2Emid To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Oct 31 22:41:00 2000 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:41:00 -0500 Subject: When I was a Lad (Lord Voldemort's Song) References: <8tlbjh+4hhi@eGroups.com> <002c01c042ea$3aed8900$21dd4b0c@cq5wu> <00ca01c042ec$ea6e8300$f06a5ecf@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <003801c0438b$a5ffe520$7dc44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 4947 ----- Original Message ----- From: "lrcjestes" To: Sent: Monday, October 30, 2000 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Snape! (song) > > LOL!!!! and printing it out for my husband Randy who used to post songs like > this to the list...you should hear his version of "I am the very model of an > Adult Harry Potter Fan" sung to the song of a similar title from the Pirates > of Penzance (that is the right operatta isn't it). I'll have to find it and > post it to the files section of the egroup page. > Thanks for the compliment, I'd love to see your husband's song. BTW, I was at a very boring seminar today, and, thinking of G & S, I doodled this essay throughout the morning session (to the tune of When I was a Lad from HMS Pinafore) (Enter Voldemort and a Chorus of Death Eaters) VOLDEMORT When I was a lad still in Hogwarts School I determined the entire world I'd someday rule But I didn't need to study the whole library I decided all I needed was a diary By preserving all my thoughts so carefully I've now became the darkest Lord in History DEATH EATERS Too bad that diary of yours got gored For once, the pen was not as mighty as the sword VOLDEMORT When I was but a toddler, my Muggle dad Abandoned me and mummy, it was rather sad Thoughts of him ensconced in our ancestral estate Retained some power always me to irritate Though mild by nature and quite risk-averse I took care of the whole matter with a Kedrava curse DEATH EATERS When relationships get unlivable You can always count on curses unforgivable VOLDEMORT I later resolved that I would change my name The original was questionable as well as plain As I then stood on the brink of world renown I found an appellation of euphonic sound I unveiled my name with such ado That they're only brave enough to call me "You-Know-Who" DEAT H EATERS You must say "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named," Or we Death Eaters will make sure you get really flamed VOLDEMORT Then for a time I was Number One I killed wizards sometimes for a spot of fun I slew James and Lily (who I never did like), And then cast a wicked spell upon their little tyke I cast that spell so wickedly, And I rather blush to say it, but the joke was on me. DEAT H EATERS When a helpless infant you would curse Make sure that Mom has not invoked a curse reverse. VOLDEMORT I retreated in the interim to the Albanian dale As I contemplated how best to hit the comeback trail And since with Harry Potter I'm inextricably linked Just a little of his blood has put me in the pink Now, fully restored to my physical form I'm preparing to unleash on you my Perfect Storm DEAT H EATERS So that's his story, he has come so far He'll get you Mudblood lovers, no matter where you are! - CMC (Happy Halloween!!!!) From john at walton.to Tue Oct 31 22:52:48 2000 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 22:52:48 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron, Hermione and insecurities (this is probably quite long) In-Reply-To: <010601c04389$8f6deb60$c68e7ed4@johnmitt> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 4948 >> ::sticks neck out:: Actually, I reckon that Ron will be Quidditch Captain. >> See, if Harry's Seeker, he's by nature removed from the rest of the game > and >> the other players. I realise that Cedric was both, but IMHO I don't think >> JKR would have Harry getting ALL the glory. >> >> --John >> ===================================================== >> John Walton JohnWalton at bigfoot.com ICQ: 96203920 > > Yeah, but Ron's never played A-side Quidditch before. Captains need to be > among the older more experienced players. Which makes me think one of the > Chasers, probably Angelina, will get it. > > Jinx Sorry, I meant after the three Chaser girls and the Weasleys graduate :) --John ===================================================== John Walton john at walton.to ICQ: 96203920 "I won't eat people! Don't eat people! Eating people is wrong!" --Flanders and Swann: The Reluctant Cannibal ===================================================== From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Oct 31 22:59:39 2000 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:59:39 -0600 Subject: UK merchandise? References: <8tngqp+blcs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <39FF4EDB.EA32A29E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4949 Hi -- nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > No... but the 2001 Calendar is sort of UK specific, as it's printed > here - so in terms of a collectors item, collectors will probably > want both the UK printed version and the US printed version - that > is, if Calendars are worth collecting. > > WH Smith are selling Calendars - they have some stores at Airports in > the US, so those of you in the US may be able to find the UK > Calendars there. I checked whsmith.co.uk, and they don't have these calendars listed. Amazon.co.uk doesn't either. Any idea where someone in the US might acquire one? I *hate* the US artwork, and I'm guessing I'd be much happier with the UK artwork. Any ideas anyone? BTW, I think it's *terrible* that the HP merchandise isn't making it over the UK to any great extent. That seems ridiculous to me. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 31 23:18:33 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:18:33 -0000 Subject: When I was a Lad (Lord Voldemort's Song) In-Reply-To: <003801c0438b$a5ffe520$7dc44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <8tnk09+fbft@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4950 I love all these songs... though they are rather hard to sing, all go a bit fast for me. MIDI files of relevant music has now been uploaded, including When I Was A Lad. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 31 23:24:54 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:24:54 -0000 Subject: UK merchandise? In-Reply-To: <39FF4EDB.EA32A29E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tnkc6+r7jk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4951 > I checked whsmith.co.uk, and they don't have these calendars listed. > Amazon.co.uk doesn't either. Any idea where someone in the US might > acquire one? I *hate* the US artwork, and I'm guessing I'd be much > happier with the UK artwork. Any ideas anyone? There are a few on Ebay - for example: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=485219505 I also have obtained a few spares myself... so could send to you, maybe we could trade in merchandise, as I want some of that Hallmark stuff! I think the artist is the same as the US though. But I can't find any artist reference on the calendar. Cover is shown at the ebay link above. > BTW, I think it's *terrible* that the HP merchandise isn't making it > over the UK to any great extent. That seems ridiculous to me. Please do write to WBros... and feel free to write to Watchdog as well - the more fuss there is, the more likely we are to get the merchandise. BTW, The mugs are made in China... so why the UK has not got them yet can't be due to anything to do with the US - they would be sent direct surely. Nick. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Tue Oct 31 23:32:32 2000 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:32:32 -0000 Subject: UK merchandise? In-Reply-To: <39FF4EDB.EA32A29E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <8tnkqg+gbgm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4952 Talking of merchandise... I've found a mug with a Blue Ford Anglia on it. (Neil... I have one for you, let me know your address) They are not anything to do with HP, so have not been damaged by WBros artists! They are also quite cheap... but supplys are very limited at the moment, as I have yet to establish who makes them. Link to picture: http://www.dvd-films.freeuk.com/fordanglia.jpg Nick From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Oct 31 23:53:44 2000 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:53:44 -0000 Subject: Cover Art Update Message-ID: <8tnm28+egue@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 4953 The Group has one of the most complete collections of HP cover art on the Web -- a total of 23 different languages are represented. Here is the list of our current "holdings": Language Country of Publication Book No. +(dialect) +(version) 1 2 3 4 Afrikaans South Africa * * * Chinese China, People's Republic * * * Chinese Taiwan * Czech Czech Republic * Danish Denmark * * * * Dutch Netherlands * * * English Great Britain, Canada, & Australia (same version) * * * * English Great Britain (adult cover) * * * English Great Britain (deluxe edition) * * * * English (American) U.S.A. * * * * English (American) U.S.A. (special edition) * Finnish Finland * * * French France (children's pb) * * * French France (hardcover) * * * * German Germany * * * * Hungarian Hungary * * * Icelandic Iceland * Hebrew Israel * * * Italian Italy * * * Japanese Japan * * Korean Korea * * * Norwegian Norway * Polish Poland * * Portugese Brazil * * Spanish(Castillian) Argentina * * * Spanish(Catalan) Spain * * * Swedish Sweden * * Thai Thailand * Turkish Turkey * Please take a peek if you haven't visited the Files area recently. Also, please let me know if you can help fill any gaps. -Jim Flanagan From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Oct 31 23:58:31 2000 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 31 Oct 2000 15:58:31 -0800 Subject: UK merchandise? Message-ID: <20001031235831.9516.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 4954 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: