Female characters - very long and very opinionated

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 3494

Hi ---

I was reading my 30 new emails this morning and thinking hard about how
I wanted to respond to Susan's original post about the female
characters.  Gosh darn it all if Neil hasn't made all my points for me!
Thanks Neil!  :--)

Neil Ward wrote:

> a) As Steve Bates said, the books are written with Harry as the focal
> point. I think this explains why female bonding features and female
> bonding is absent.

That was going to be my biggest point.  We are limited by what Harry
hears & observes.  He's not going to necessarily overhear McGonagall
mentoring Hermione in her office.  He wouldn't necessarily overhear a
Staff meeting in which McGonagall shines.  He's not going to overhear
Hermione and Ginny having a late-night serious conversation.  We've
never seen Hermione's dorm room (and so most of us aren't entirely sure
that there are just 3 females there -- Hermione, Parvarti & Lavender).
Like Neil said later, you've got to read between the lines because of
the male POV.

So, remember that Hermione later tells Harry that McGonagall had to go
to alot of trouble to get the time turner for her.  I think this
indicates that there has been a mentoring relationship going on between
the two of them -- we just aren't privy to it.

McGonagall is Deputy Head Mistress.  I agree with Susan's point that she
doesn't have as much on-screen time as we might like.  But, I think we
can read into the fact that she's 2nd in command that she must indeed be
the superstar amongst the staff other than Dumbledore (and that
Dumbledore is grooming her to be the next Head Mistress).

> You make some undeniable points, Susan. Women are pushed into the
> background and held to sterotype.

I too thought you made excellent points Susan.  Lots of the female
characters are background characters or have limited purposes.  You did
a great job of illustrating your argument.  And, I think your argument
is exactly what Simon was trying to convey yesterday.  But, like Neil &
Steve, I think the biggest reason for this perception is that the
stories are told in Harry's POV.

> I think it's important to be able to imagine the things we *don't*
> see.
> We've noted before that some of the characters are only sketched out
> and I think this allows the reader to fill in the missing parts of the
> jigsaw to their own design.

That's why I imagine the mentoring relationship between McGonagall &
Hermione; a mentoring/grooming relationship between McGonagall &
Dumbledore; some late-night talks about the meaning of life among the 3
Gryffindor chasers (btw, you do certainly see Angelina, Katie & Alicia
taking an active role in Quidditch -- they can stand up to Oliver); a
bonding conversation between Hermione & Ginny when Hermione confides
that she's going with Krum to the ball; etc.

> In that case, despite the tradition of the boys asking the girls to
> the Ball, the boys appeared naive and clumsy and the girls came across
> as more mature and in control... that was my reading between the
> lines, anyhow.

I agree!

> I don't know that JKR is male-identifed as such, because she has said
> that she identifies with Hermione. We could ask why she chose a male
> lead? Perhaps it was to avoid having the book cast as reading for
> girls, but maybe it was simply because that was the story she wanted
> to write and how she wanted to write it. It certainly hasn't lessened
> the appeal of the books to women and girls.

She's said that about 6 months after she starting thinking about the
books & making notes, she suddenly wondered to herself why she was
writing about a male protagonist.  She said she debated whether she
should change Harry to Harriet.  Then, she decided that she already
liked him too much, and it was Harry (male) who strode fully-formed into
her head on that delayed train.  So, I don't think it was necessarily a
conscious decision.  And, I agree with Neil that she's not necessarily a
male-centered author.

Steve Bates said:

> This explains why Hermione is mostly seen as filling a somewhat male role:
> because that's how Harry sees her.  The fact that she is a girl
> probably actually doesn't occur to him, on some level.
>
Harry and Ron both are a bit guilty of this as is evidenced by the Yule
Ball.  Ron even says something like "Yeah . . . you are a girl," and she
replies "well-spotted" very sarcastically.  Similarly,  Harry is floored
by her appearance when he first sees her with Krum.  I think Hermione
being "male-identified" is largely attributable to the POV of Harry (and
Ron to some extent).  Believe me, I think they're both going to identify
her more as a female in the coming books.  Her best friends are male,
but I don't think this makes her male-identified.  I've argued in the
past (and I won't back away from that argument now) that the
relationship between Hermione & Ginny probably isn't as much as the
Ginny supporters want it to be.  Her friendship with Ginny hasn't
resulted in Ginny becoming a member of the Trio.  But, it does seem that
there is some sort of friendship going on behind the scenes there.  And,
if she is, as I imagine, developing a strong mentor in McGonagall, then
this is yet another female influence in her life.  Hermione's parents
are also *both* dentists.  She doesn't come from a "traditional" home
where the mum stayed home then.  So . . . I don't think she's as
male-identified as Susan thinks.

Other than that -- I think Susan had some good points to make.  It'd be
great if, as Peg suggested, JKR is lurking here & decides to play up
some of the other potentially strong female characters a bit more.

Penny


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