Snape/Lily (was: in love (and Imperio curse)

[milz]

No: HPFGUIDX 3537

--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" <catlady at w...> wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mmarth at p... wrote:
> > 
> > I still don't like the Snape/Lily thought. 
> (snip)
> > Or after all this time still mad because Lily dumped him or 
> > something of the sort. 
> 
> I don't like the Snape/Lily thought because it is too conventional 
> (as Diogo said). 
> 
> However, it can be expanded to explain not only why Snape hates 
> Harry, but why Snape turned against the Death Eaters. The following 
> expansion is all speculation except what is labelled otherwise.
> 
> I think it is generally assumed that young Severus never made any 
> time with Lily, except that she may have smiled and been polite to 
> him because she smiled and was polite to everyone. 
> 
> (Altho' the angst would be that much more intense if Severus and 
Lily 
> had been happily engaged to be married when Lily broke off their  
> engagement and married James, who had also broken off a happy 
> engagement for the purpose, not because they were in love, but
> because they knew from prophecy or genetic analysis that they were 
> THE two people who could make a baby that would grow up to defeat 
> Voldemort. THAT would be ASTONISHING, all right!)
> 
> Instead, the idea is that Severus already hated James for having 
> everything that Severus wanted and didn't have (popularity, 
Quidditch 
> stardom, the best grades in their year, Head Boy, loving parents, 
> praise from Dumbledore, etc) (and hated James' friends for being 
> friends with James), and the Whomping Willow prank was just the 
icing 
> on the cake, 
> 
> And then, on top of all else, James also got the one thing that 
> Severus had come to want the most of anything in his life: Lily.
> 
> Snape didn't expect Lily to leave James and come to him, but still 
he 
> didn't want Lily to be killed, so when he learned of Voldemort's 
plan 
> to kill the Potter family because of some prophecy that a Potter
man 
> would be his downfall, Snape demanded that Voldemort spare her. 
> 
> Snape was a sufficiently valuable servant that V humored him by 
> promising not to kill Lily if she didn't get in the way: "instead
> I'll give her to you to do with as you will". That is why Lily was 
> the *only* one of V's victims who was offered the chance not to
die. 
> 
> But Snape knew that Lily would never accept her life at the price
of 
> her baby's life, so his next attempt to save her was that he warned 
> Our Side of Their Side's plot against the Potters. Remember, a spy 
> among the Dark Siders was how the Potters knew to go into hiding, 
and 
> protect their hiding place with the Fidelius Charm. 
> 
> Despite all, V found and killed the Potters. S, now craving nothing 
> but vengeance for Lily, walked out on V and over to D, who 
completely 
> trusts S because D knows how implacably S holds grudges. Therefore, 
V 
> knows that S has left him forever and S can no longer act as a 
double 
> agent.
> 
> The grudges that S holds include not only old schoolboy grudges,
but 
> also an additional grudge against James and a personal (rather than 
> inherited) grudge against Harry, because it was Their Fault that 
Lily 
> died, and an additional grudge against Sirius, because he believed 
it 
> was Sirius who had betrayed Lily to her death. It has been pointed 
> out that he shows signs of hating Sirius much more than he hates 
> James' other friend, Remus. 
> 
> Unfortunately, it has also been pointed out that it is difficult to 
> reconcile the ideas that S thinks Sirius was the traitor, that S 
> didn't walk out until after L was killed, and V's Death Eaters
(both 
> S and Peter were marked) knew each other: surely S would have seen 
> Peter and not Sirius at DE meetings.

Interesting!

I think Snape's hatred for James is multi-faceted. Part of it is due 
to James' Quidditch skills. Part of it is due to James' arrogance (as 
seen by Snape). Part of it could be due to the fact that James was 
Head Boy. Part of it could be due to Lily. I'm not saying that Snape 
is completely blameless, the Snape-Whomping Willow incident is 
evidence to the contrary. 

My personal idea about a Lily-Snape thing is that Snape was
infatuated 
with Lily but was too shy to talk to her. The times he did manage to 
speak to her she was probably more interested in James because he was 
good at Quidditch, because he was smart, etc. So Snape felt he was 
rejected because if James wasn't around Lily would be attracted to 
him. Or maybe Snape did muster up enough courage to tell Lily his 
feelings and she dealt him that universal heart-breaking line "I like 
you too, but not in that way."

I also get the feeling that Snape partially blames the Marauders for 
his involvement with Voldemort. Snape probably joined the Dark Side
to 
"get back at" the Marauders and to show them he wasn't as big a loser 
as they thoguht he was. We won't know what caused Snape to return to 
Our Side yet, but whatever it was it made him "wake up and smell the 
coffee"!

In a way, I think Snape deep down dosn't hate Harry as much as Harry 
thinks. I think that Snape was impressed that Harry defeated Quirrell 
and Tom Riddle and respects him for that. I do think that Snape sees 
bits of his and James' bad habits in Harry, such as arrogance and a 
disregard for rules.  Maybe Snape realizes that these two 
characteristics are the cornerstones for a future downfall? Didn't he 
say that James was too arrogant to believe Sirius could not be 
trusted? Didn't Snape, himself, sneak out of the castle and break the 
rules by going to the Whomping Willow as a student? Snape might have 
genuinely good intentions for, but he lacks good interpersonal 
communication skills (or subscribes to the "tough love" method of 
discipline).

;-) Milz