female characters - very long and very opinionated

[Susan McGee]

No: HPFGUIDX 3542

--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr <pkerr06 at a...> wrote:
> Schlobin at a... wrote:
> 
> > I fear that I will be shot for this post, but here goes anyway.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> > But I must suggest that JKR is male-identified. That is, she sees 
Hermione
> > (and probably herself) as the exception. Hermione is not like the 
other
> > girls. She  doesn't giggle, run in packs, or do a lot of the other
> > traditionally girl behavior that JKR doesn't  particularly like. 
She's
> > brilliant, hard working, and takes things seriously. She is NOT 
just the girl
> > who helps the boy slay the dragon (as someone suggests). Who 
helped
> > save Sirius Black? She's adventurous; she's inventive. But she is 
the
> > EXCEPTION.
> > Just as many strong, intelligent women, she survives/flourishes 
by hanging
> > out with men and bonding with men. She demonstrates that she can 
be feminine
> > and attract men by attracting
> > a GoF champion, and looking beautiful at the Yule Ball. She can 
do it all if
> > she wants, but she has nothing in common with the vast majority of
> > women/girls.
> 
> You have some points, but I honestly don't know what you mean by
> "male-identified."
> She is exceptional, yes.  And she is friends with boys, yes.  But as
> someone
> (Neil?) pointed out; she is probably friends with girls, too, but we
> just don't see
> that as much because the story is told from Harry's P-O-V.   
Anyway, I
> honestly
> don't understand why you think her exceptional-ness and her 
friendships
> with men
> makes her less female--but perhaps I am just missing what you mean 
by
> the term?

Well, I disagree. If she were friends with girls at Hogwarts, we'd 
know. Her friendships with men and her exceptionalness do not make 
her less female. You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Most women 
who are male-identified (and I have problems with it with adults) 
will tell you that they are NOT like OTHER women, that all their 
friends are men, and that they wouldn't work for a female boss, and 
that they have much more in common with men. This stance stems from 
the idea that men are better, and that women are lesser.

> 
> What is it about being an exceptional student that makes her less
> female?  What is
> about reading books and knowing what's in them that rearranges or
> negates
> Hermione's internal plumbing? 

Nothing. Reading books is neither inherently masculine nor feminine.
Please understand, I'm not trying to make
> this come
> across as a flame; I'm just honestly baffled by your reasoning.
> 
> This whole thread reminds me of Joanna Russ' book _How to suppress
> Women's
> Writing._  I don't mean you're trying to suppress JKR's writing; 
what I
> mean is
> that, you see a cool-headed, smart woman, and your reaction 
is, "she's
> doesn't come
> across as female."  It's like having the idea that you're praising a
> woman novelist
> by saying "she writes like a man."  Why?

Ah, but you do get what I'm saying. I would never say that a cool-
headed smart woman "doesn't come across as female" I would NEVER say 
that a woman "writes like a man!" because I don't agree that there is 
identifiable male and female writing. (And those who did got their 
comeuppance with James Tiptree.


  Do you have any doubts that
> Hermione
> thinks she is a girl?  I don't in the least.

Nope. 

  Is being cool-headed,
> non-giggly,
> and  competent inconsistent with feminity?  I just don't think it 
is.
> 
> > Just as many strong, intelligent women, she survives/flourishes 
by hanging
> > out with men and bonding with men. 
> 
> No, no, no, no, no.  She survives/flourishes by being a good 
student and
> a decent, kind-hearted, conscientious human being.  She would 
continue
> to be the same person if she hung with Lavendar or Parvil instead.

She would continue to be decent, and kind-hearted but IF we accept 
JKR's portrayal of Lavendar or Parvil as giggly, then she'd be bored 
stiff. She hangs out with Harry because they are fun and she has 
adventures with them. 

> 
> I remember the story about a mother who reported being furious at 
her
> son's
> basketball coach, who jeered from the sidelines at a practice 
session,
> "You're
> shooting like a girl."  And she was so proud when her son, who had 
been
> watching
> the women's basketball lately, and just lit up like a firefly and 
said,
> "You mean
> I'm shooting like Sheryl Swopes?  Hey, thanks!"
> 

Great anecdote.