[HPforGrownups] In defense of Ron

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 4863

Hi --

DrMM wrote:

> One of the biggest complaints people on this list (especially H/H fans
> . . . but I won't go into that at the moment) have about Ron is the
> fact that he's fundamentally insecure.  As a result, most of these
> people appear find Ron an obnoxious and unappealing character.
> However, I find this somewhat endearing.  In my opinion, it makes him
> a much more realistic and understandable character than Harry. Thus,
> I've decided to state my opinion as to why I think Ron's insecurities
> are perfectly understandable and realistic (and semi-endearing).

I don't know that I have any "complaints" about any of the characters,
including Ron.  I have noted that he is a fundamentally insecure
person.  This seems to me to be a fairly factual thing, rather than a
subjective value-based assessment.  For the record, I do *not* dislike
Ron or find him to be "obnoxious or unappealing."  I won't speak for all
the H/H shippers on that score, but I will clear up any confusion about
my own feelings.  I like Ron very much.  His sarcastic sense of humor is
a great (necessary?) addition to the Trio.  He has many endearing
characteristics -- although I don't necessarily find the "display" of
his insecurity (i.e. the fight with Harry) to be particularly endearing.

> One of the things people don't seem to understand is how *difficult*
> (if
> not impossible) it is to form your own identity when you grow up
> overshadowed by another sibling.

*I* do understand this.  I'm the oldest child, and while my sister would
tell you that she felt overshadowed by my intellectual successes her
entire life, I would tell you that I felt just as overshadowed by her
social successes.  Virtually anyone who had a sibling would understand
that problem.  I would wager even "only" children have problems forging
their own identity.  I think most of us *understand* that issue Dr MM.

> (it appears) he doesn't even consider trying out for the Quidditch
> team (Charlie's already the Quidditch hero).

Well, Fred & George are on the team, despite Charlie's earlier
successes.  I've always thought it odd that Ron, the super-fan of
Quidditch, isn't on the team or a reserve player or something.  I'll
admit that my conclusion was that he didn't have the talent . . . but
maybe that's unfair.  Maybe he's just avoiding the game on the grounds
that 3 of his brothers have already taken that route.

> Add to that the fact that he has a pushy, overbearing mother who
> lavishes attention (and gifts) on "perfect" Percy.

Wow!  Interesting take on Mrs. Weasley -- I've always thought Molly was
pretty much even-handed with her kids.  I do think she takes alot of
pride in Percy's accomplishments but . . . I think Percy is the one
child who is most like her.  It's probably natural that she has
extra-special feelings for him because of that -- or they have a "bond"
because of that.

> As a result, his insecurities are completely understandable.  I'd be
> *astonished* if he had been able to form much self-confidence at all
> in
> that situation.

*I* at least have never argued that his insecurities are not
understandable.  But just because I *understand* them doesn't mean that
it makes any sense to me to believe that his insecurities wouldn't come
into play & cause friction if he & Hermione attempted a romantic
relationship.

> A lot of Ron's actions are based on his insecurities.  The fight with
> Harry, his desire for fame, his lack of studying . . . I guess what
> I'm
> trying to say is that Ron *will* gain self-confidence.

Well, we all hope so . . . I think it's more accurate to say that Ron
will in all likelihood eventually gain self-confidence, self-esteem,
etc.  *If* he does, then one of my major objections to a pairing of R &
H would be eliminated.  <g>  But, I don't think he'll gain self-esteem
by dating a super-star who overshadows him yet again.  I think the only
way that relationship works is if he gets the self-esteem *first* and
then dates Hermione.  But, even then . . . I still think H & H are
better-suited for one another.  :--)

> And just to irk the H/H fans . . . Hermione and Ron are both equally
> insecure IMO.  Hermione's insecurities is what makes her such an
> (obnoxious) overachiever.  That's why I can see H/R as a legitimate
> couple.

Well, first, I'm curious why you want to pair an *obnoxious
over-achiever* (your words) with your favorite character (or I assume
you identify most strongly with Ron)?  If Hermione is so bossy,
obnoxious & distasteful to you, then why do you want to pair her off
with Ron?  Your past posts have indicated that you have strong issues
with both Harry (inconsiderate) and Hermione (obnoxious braggart) -- so
*why* wouldn't you want them to just end up together, leaving Ron to
find someone "better"?  <g>

I've never said Hermione doesn't have any insecurities.  I think she and
Harry both have their own insecurities.  But, I think Ron is
fundamentally insecure.  Harry & Hermione, IMO, just have normal moments
of insecurity -- periodic bursts of normal adolescent self-doubts.

You've said several times before that Hermione is a braggart . . .
obnoxious . . . what have you.  In each case, I've asked you for
references proving Hermione brags about her intellectual accomplishments
or "shows off."  You've never responded.  She *is* always eager to give
the right answer .... but this isn't the same thing as "bragging" IMO.
We only know she's top of the class because Lucius Malfoy says so
(belittling Draco in CoS).  I don't have the impression that she "shows
off" -- some people interpret her having the right answers as "showing
off," but I think that she's showing the reverse.  I think it shows she
has the self-confidence to assert herself in the classroom, which is a
positive thing in my mind.  Especially since we hear & read so much
about young girls & women not being assertive in the classroom.  I don't
have the impression she spends time outside the classroom telling Ron &
Harry about her grades, etc.

As a side note, you posted a very long post earlier this month about
Harry's "inconsiderate" nature.  Several of us took the time to respond
to your  points about that . . . . and well, we never heard anything
back from you.  Just my opinion, but if you post on a subject that is
somewhat controversial & then people take obvious time to respond to
your points in a rational non-argumentative way & then you never even
come back with "Sorry but I still disagree," it makes a bit hard for
people to justify setting aside some time to respond to anything else
that you write in the future.  I'm not advocating responding to people
who are rude or argumentative in their responses -- in my mind, they can
clearly be ignored.  <g>  Maybe it's just me (<shrugs>), but I was
hoping to get some sort of response considering I spent probably 30
minutes or more responding to your points.  Then again, maybe that's
just my own fault.  <g>

Penny


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