Ron, Hermione and insecurities (this is probably quite long)

[Simon J. Branford]

No: HPFGUIDX 4865

Penny wrote: "She [Hermione] *is* always eager to give the right answer ....
but this isn't the same thing as "bragging" IMO.
We only know she's top of the class because Lucius Malfoy says so
(belittling Draco in CoS).  I don't have the impression that she "shows
off" -- some people interpret her having the right answers as "showing off,"
but I think that she's showing the reverse.  I think it shows she has the
self-confidence to assert herself in the classroom, which is a positive
thing in my mind.  Especially since we hear & read so much about young girls
& women not being assertive in the classroom.  I don't have the impression
she spends time outside the classroom telling Ron & Harry about her grades,
etc."

Lucius is not the only one to say that Hermione is top of the class. It is
mentioned at other time throughout the books, but I am sure that not one of
those occasions is because Hermione has mentioned it.

I see Hermione as being insecure. The reason she seems to know all the
answers is because she works hard. She seems to work hard because she has a
large fear of failure. She shows the obsessive 'I am going to fail' when
revising for exams. She has got better by GoF, but still spends most of her
time working and feeling that she has to put that work in. I get the
impression that Hermione believes that because she has become top of the
class she must now work very hard to maintain that position and she would be
very upset if she did not remain as the top student.

Another problem I have with Hermione is that she is constantly trying to
organize the others. In PS she draws up revision timetables for them. She
nags at Harry when he is not working towards the tasks in GoF. Yes I know
that Ron and Harry do need convincing to do their work, but at the end of
the day it is their decision and they should be left to choose about how
much they do.


Penny wrote: "Well, Fred & George are on the team, despite Charlie's earlier
successes.  I've always thought it odd that Ron, the super-fan of Quidditch,
isn't on the team or a reserve player or something.  I'll admit that my
conclusion was that he didn't have the talent . . . but maybe that's unfair.
Maybe he's just avoiding the game on the grounds that 3 of his brothers have
already taken that route."

It is fairly obvious that the twins have reasonable, though not great,
brooms. It is mentioned that Ron's broom is 'overtaken by butterflies'. This
could be a case of a vicious cycle. Ron does not have a good enough broom so
is not good enough to get onto the team. Because he is not good enough to
get on the team he cannot justify asking his parents for a better broom. So
he cannot get on the team. His pride would not allow him to ask to borrow a
broom from one of the others - so he may never get on the team, even though
he may be good enough.

Hopefully he will get some opportunity to show his Quidditch ability in the
future. His build suggests that he may be a good keeper. His seems to have
good logical reasoning and forward thought to work out what moves others
will take. On top of this he is tall which makes reaching the Quaffle much
easier. There is a space in that position - so who knows - Ron for
Gryffindor keeper.


Penny wrote: "I've never said Hermione doesn't have any insecurities.  I
think she and Harry both have their own insecurities.  But, I think Ron is
fundamentally insecure.  Harry & Hermione, IMO, just have normal moments of
insecurity -- periodic bursts of normal adolescent self-doubts."

I disagree here. I think all three suffer from childhood insecurities and I
think that they all can grow out of these insecurities. Ron just needs an
opportunity to realise he does have talents and is good at something - it
just remains to be seen what this skill is.

He has been overshadowed by his brothers at Quidditch and schoolwork and now
has the same problem with Harry and Hermione in these areas respectively.

Most of Harry's insecurities stem from his lack of love as a youngster. He
should get over this when he realises that others are there for him and he
can trust them with everything. He has still not admitted to Ron and
Hermione that the sorting hat suggested putting him in Slytherin.


Norevoli wrote: "> If not speaking to each other is equivalent to being
obnoxious then Harry has had his moments too. How about that whole fiasco
with Crookshanks. Although the fight was primarily between Ron and Hermione
Harry totally sided with Ron. I didn't see Harry trying to get the two of
them to reconcile (like Hermione does in GoF by trying to get the two of
them to talk to each other)."

Penny replied with: "Am I the only one who's noticed this?  <g>
PoA -- Chapter 13 (pages 264-65 in US version)
<Snip the quote from the books - trying to make sure message does not get
too long - pages 195/6 in UK edition>
Don't know about you, but that's pretty clear evidence to me that Harry no
longer held any grudge against Hermione, he wanted her friendship back & he
was actively trying to make the two of them make up.  Ron is stubborn in
this case too."

I am not sure that Harry ever really held the grudge against Hermione. He
was definitely upset with her and I think that Hermione took this to mean
that he was siding with Ron. She then spent time ignoring and avoiding them.
Yes Harry makes little effort to go and find her but I get the impression
that he thinks that she will not want him as a friend anymore. I see the two
of them not being friends as just the result of a series of
misinterpretations of the actions of the other. They both seem to have the
impression that the other will not want them as a friend and the cycle of
not talking starts.

In the occasions where Ron is upset with Harry and Hermione he seems
stubborn to forgive. It takes a large jolt to get Ron to come to his senses.


Eggplant wrote: "The only time I found Ron really obnoxious was when he had
a fight with his best friend, a friend who had saved his sister's life, a
friend who had demonstrated a willingness to risk his own life to save Ron
too. <snip> Harry was going through a very difficult time, he was scared to
death he was either going to get killed in the first task of the tournament
or even worse make a complete fool of himself, almost everybody at school
hated him, he was depressed and needed moral support from Ron. He didn't get
it. Harry didn't ask Ron to risk his life, he just asked him to be his
friend and Ron refused. His only friend was Hermione."

The past is unimportant in friendships. It is the present that determines
where they go. It is worth noting that Ron also risked his life to save
Ginny and was prepared to risk his life for Harry. He sacrificed himself in
the chess game in PS and I am not certain that he was sure that he would
recover easily from that. In PoA he has a broken leg but still tries to help
Harry when they think that Harry's life is at risk after he has attacked
Sirius.

In GoF Ron has to believe that either Harry lies to him or that Dumbledore
is not as powerful as people make him out to be. Either Dumbledore has made
a mistake by allowing Harry's name to get into the cup or Harry is refusing
to say how he got his name in. Written like this the choice becomes less
clear. Do we really want to admit, or even know, that Dumbledore makes
mistakes?


Harry/Hermione or Ron/Hermione?
I can see problems with both of these. But I think that we could find
problems with any potential pairing.  I know examples and counterexamples
for why both of these partnerships are perfect or doomed to failure. At the
moment R/H seems more likely to happen in the canon (maybe even it could be
said that it will happen - it depends on how you interpret JKR's comments)
but will it last? Relationships, and even friendships, are all about living
with the idiosyncratic nature of others. All three of the triad are prone to
doing stupid things. Will this ever change?


Penny wrote: "<snip> I was hoping to get some sort of response considering I
spent probably 30 minutes or more responding to your points.  Then again,
maybe that's just my own fault."

One of the first rules of newsgroups and message boards is that you may not
get a reply to a message. I know it can be frustrating to spend ages on a
message and get no response but this is just a fact of life.

Simon