In defense of Ron

[DrMM]

No: HPFGUIDX 4909

Warning: long post ahead :)

 > *I* do understand this.  I'm the oldest child, and while my sister would
 > tell you that she felt overshadowed by my intellectual successes her
 > entire life, I would tell you that I felt just as overshadowed by her
 > social successes.  Virtually anyone who had a sibling would understand
 > that problem.  I would wager even "only" children have problems forging
 > their own identity.  I think most of us *understand* that issue Dr MM.

I don't know that I neccessarily agree with it.  I think, despite someone's 
best efforts, it's difficult to understand the POV of being a younger 
sibling.  Older children always have the advantage of doing something 
first.  They go to school first, they get to drive first . . . Maybe later 
in life the younger sibling can excel at something that the older sibling 
was only mediocre at.  However, frequently younger siblings tend to not try 
to excel in something that their older one has already tried.  I never gave 
swimming the effort it deserved growing up partially because I was 
convinced that I could never be as good as my sister, even though I was 
told by both my parents and the swim coach, that I could be better if I 
actually worked at it.  In the same vein, I don't think I can understand 
completely how an older sibling feels.  I know I irritated my brother and 
sister growing up by constantly tagging along . . . and while I can imagine 
it, I still can't be positive that what I imagine and reality are the same 
thing.  Besides . . . I can't imagine that many (if any) of us grew up in a 
family of quite the same size Ron did . . .

In Ron's case, there seems to be no arena left for him to try.  I would 
love to see him play Quidditch . . . and I think he could be wonderful as a 
captain because he could apply his talent for strategy he gained from Chess 
to Quidditch . . . I'm just not sure that he'd try it (or have the 
self-confidence) unless someone (maybe Harry) talked him into it. Although 
. . . part of the problem might be the fact he doesn't have a decent broom 
to try out on (as Simon suggested).  As for the whole sibling-envy 
self-comparison thing . . . In your case, you suggested that you also felt 
envy towards your younger sister for her successes, I see no evidence that 
any of Ron's family (except Ginny in CoS for being friends with Harry -- 
oh, and Fred & George about the flying car) are envious of anything that 
Ron has done.  None of this is long lasting, unlike the attention given to 
Ron's brothers.

 >Well, Fred & George are on the team, despite Charlie's earlier
 >successes.  I've always thought it odd that Ron, the super-fan of
 >Quidditch, isn't on the team or a reserve player or something.  I'll
 >admit that my conclusion was that he didn't have the talent . . . but
 >maybe that's unfair.  Maybe he's just avoiding the game on the grounds
 >that 3 of his brothers have already taken that route.

Actually, I'm a bit confused about Quidditch.  I've gotten the impression 
that none of the houses have reserve players (or at least Gryffindor), in 
which case, since Harry got the seeker position in his first year, all the 
positions Ron could have tried out for were already taken in CoS and 
PoA.  In GoF, when Wood is gone they didn't have Quidditch so Ron couldn't 
try out.  I wouldn't be at all surprised for Ron to try out for Quidditch 
in the next book (although I think it will take Harry and Hermione's 
prompting to give Ron the confidence he needs).  Of course, I could be 
wrong about the reserve thing . . . in which case I go with the "he didn't 
have confidence because of his brothers" theory.  And I think Simon has a 
good point about his lack of a decent broom.

 > Wow!  Interesting take on Mrs. Weasley -- I've always thought Molly was
 > pretty much even-handed with her kids.  I do think she takes alot of
 > pride in Percy's accomplishments but . . . I think Percy is the one
 > child who is most like her.  It's probably natural that she has
 > extra-special feelings for him because of that -- or they have a "bond"
 > because of that.

But just because one child is like you, does that mean you should shower 
gifts (like owls) on them that you don't give your other children?  (I'm 
not sure Mrs. Weasley and Percy are that much alike though.)  While I think 
Mrs. Weasley is a loving mother, I do think she shows excessive favoritism 
towards Percy.  She's also consistantly pointing out his perfections to her 
other children: "Second Head boy in the family!" she said, swelling with 
pride." (PoA).    While this may not bother Fred & George, who have no 
desire to be Head Boy, it can't be good for Ron's (who has shown the desire 
in SS/PS) self-esteem.  And she's shown as terribly overbearing when it 
comes to her actions towards her "less-exemplary children."  Besides the 
fact that her yelling goes to extremes when her children do anything wrong 
(the car in CoS).  She also insults Fred & George's dream of owning a joke 
shop and does her best to ensure their dream never happens.  While I'm 
confident that she loves her children and that her tendency towards praise 
of Percy and overbearing attitude towards Fred, George and Ron is out of a 
desire to see them succeed in life, I think it contributes to Ron's lack of 
self-confidence.  I suppose that's why I was able to see Rosie O'Donnell as 
Mrs. Weasley in a movie more than others were . . . I think Rosie could do 
"overbearing mother" quite well . . . . if she had the proper British 
background of course. <g>

 > *I* at least have never argued that his insecurities are not
 > understandable.  But just because I *understand* them doesn't mean that
 > it makes any sense to me to believe that his insecurities wouldn't come
 > into play & cause friction if he & Hermione attempted a romantic
 > relationship.

Ah, but I think that Hermione's insecurites could come into play in a 
relationship with Harry.  I think, in a relationship, people would focus 
more on Harry than her (despite her academic prowess), which could cause a 
certain amount of resentment (although it would be restrained) on her 
part.  But . . I don't feel like getting into an H/R vs. H/H argument at 
the moment.  Besides the fact that it's been rehashed into the ground, I 
don't think it would convince either of us to change our minds. <g>

 > Well, we all hope so . . . I think it's more accurate to say that Ron
 > will in all likelihood eventually gain self-confidence, self-esteem,
 >etc.  *If* he does, then one of my major objections to a pairing of R &
 > H would be eliminated.  <g>  But, I don't think he'll gain self-esteem
 > by dating a super-star who overshadows him yet again.  I think the only
 > way that relationship works is if he gets the self-esteem *first* and
 > then dates Hermione.  But, even then . . . I still think H & H are
 > better-suited for one another.  :--)

See above :)

 > Well, first, I'm curious why you want to pair an *obnoxious
 > over-achiever* (your words) with your favorite character (or I assume
 > you identify most strongly with Ron)?  If Hermione is so bossy,
 > obnoxious & distasteful to you, then why do you want to pair her off
 > with Ron?  Your past posts have indicated that you have strong issues
 > with both Harry (inconsiderate) and Hermione (obnoxious braggart) -- so
 > *why* wouldn't you want them to just end up together, leaving Ron to
 > find someone "better"?  <g>

First off, Ron isn't my favorite character; Snape is.  After that, I 
suppose it's Ginny (who reminds me of myself at that age -- hyperactive and 
generally talkative with a hopeless crush on someone they can never have -- 
I've sort of given up on my slight H/G hopes).  Of the three, I suppose I 
like Ron better, although I think Harry's more interesting.  I can 
understand Ron more than I've ever been able to understand Harry or 
Hermione (although I'm attempting to understand Hermione more).  And of 
course, it seems to me that people are constantly shoving Ron off to the 
side, which bothers me so I focus more on writing about him . . . in which 
case I understand him more and like him more . . . And I like him more 
after this thread than I ever did before . . .<g>

Why do I want an R/H pairing?  (Hermione and obnoxiousness is next.) I 
think they'd complement each other quite well.  Hermione has shown a great 
deal of patience and understanding, the type of patience and understanding 
that it takes to deal with someone who has a quick temper.  I think she 
would also push Ron to succeed more than he might do with another 
person.  At the moment, I think her pushiness is excessive (read: obnoxious 
and overbearing) and Ron has shown the tendency to resent it so 
far.  However, if Hermione continues to "lighten up" the way she has 
through the series, it will become more apparent to Ron that it's because 
she wants him to succeed and this will influence him far more than anything 
else.  Why would Ron be good for Hermione?  In the first place, he would 
help Hermione lighten up.  Hermione tends to spend so much time studying 
and pushes herself so hard that her opinion of her worth is based entirely 
on her GPA (well, something like that).  IMO Ron would be the best person 
to help her have fun with life.  "There was much less laughter and a lot 
more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best  friend."  I 
don't think Harry could do that.  Also, Ron has a sense of passion that 
hasn't been apparent in Hermione's nature.  When Hermione is insulted, she 
has the tendency to sit there and take it, while Ron is willing to 
fight.  At the moment, they both need to learn to regulate these 
habits.  Ron is too quickly angered; Hermione needs to learn when to 
fight.  Together they would help each other.  But that's JMO :)

 > You've said several times before that Hermione is a braggart . . .
 > obnoxious . . . what have you.  In each case, I've asked you for
 > references proving Hermione brags about her intellectual accomplishments
 > or "shows off."  You've never responded.  She *is* always eager to give
 > the right answer .... but this isn't the same thing as "bragging" IMO.
 > We only know she's top of the class because Lucius Malfoy says so
 > (belittling Draco in CoS).  I don't have the impression that she "shows
 > off" -- some people interpret her having the right answers as "showing
 > off," but I think that she's showing the reverse.  I think it shows she
 > has the self-confidence to assert herself in the classroom, which is a
 > positive thing in my mind.  Especially since we hear & read so much
 > about young girls & women not being assertive in the classroom.  I don't
 > have the impression she spends time outside the classroom telling Ron &
 > Harry about her grades, etc.

Note: I don't hate Hermione.  There's a difference between being assertive 
and willing to share the answers and being obnoxious about it IMO.  Just 
because Hermione knows all the answers doesn't mean she *has* to display it 
in front of the class every single time a question is asked.  To me it 
doesn't even seem like she gives anyone else the opportunity to answer.

"The Mandrake forms an essential part of most antidotes.  It is also, 
however, dangerous.  Who can tell me why?"

Hermione's hand narrowly missed Harry's glasses as it shot up again.

"The cry of the Mandrake is fatal to anyone who hears it," she said 
promptly. (CoS)

Neville is in the same Herbology class and it's his best subject.  He may 
have known the answer, but because Hermione insists on answering every 
single question so quickly, we just don't know.  I have no objection to 
raising her hand and telling the answer if no one else knows or if she 
doesn't do it as frequently as she does, but she rarely, if ever, gives 
anyone else the opportunity to answer.  That's why I feel like she's 
showing off.  Oh, and I don't think she realizes how much it appears to 
others that she's showing off and how obnoxious it can be just yet.  She's 
also continually nagging Ron and Harry to study.  While they need some 
prompting her tendency to do things like arranging their study schedules 
for them in SS/PS is just -- irritating.  One of the things that's been 
happening as she progresses through the books is that she has 
matured.  These instances become far fewer and as a result, I find Hermione 
less irritating in GoF than I did in the earlier books.  However, she still 
has that tendency.  But if the trend continues . . . . I'll be able to like 
Hermione in book 7 far more than I did in SS/PS.

Okay, I think I'm done now <whew>.  This is by far the longest and most 
time consuming response or post I've ever made . . . Hopefully it makes 
sense <g>
I was going to go on to other posts . . . but I think this is enough for 
one night.

DrMM (now realizing a long, thought-out and eloquent response can take 
*far* more than 30 minutes)
*~*~*~*~*~*
DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com
http://www.fuuko.com
Most recent anime: Shoujo Kakume Utena movie 

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