In Defense of Ron, Hermione as Braggart & Related Stuff

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 4923

Hi --

Well, miracles never cease!  I'm at last in agreement with *both* Susan
and Eggplant on an issue!  <vbg>

Dr MM wrote:

> I think, despite someone's best efforts, it's difficult to understand the POV
> of beng a younger sibling.  Older children always have the advantage of doing something
> first.  They go to school first, they get to drive first . . .
>
Ahem!  The above shows you haven't tried very hard to understand the POV
of an older sibling.  Well . . . uh . . . like Ebony said, there's a LOT
of responsibility that goes with being the oldest child.  The oldest
child is expected to be nothing short of perfect in most cases -- that's
why most oldest children end up being classed as "Type A"
personalities.  And, like Ebony said, the parents have all the "kinks"
worked out by the time they get to the younger sibling(s).  Here's just
but one example from my life: I wanted to move off-campus to an apt for
my junior yr in college.  Despite pleading & hard evidence of how much
cheaper it would be all the way around, it was a no go.  They finally
relented for my sr yr.  One yr later, my younger sister departs for
college, in a bigger city and with a bigger campus.  Guess who got an
off-campus apt their *freshman* year!  Yep!  It's NOT easy being the
pioneer for *everything* with the parents.  I fought ALL the battles.  I
would wager that you're not putting yourself in your sister's shoes too
much.  Things might not have been so rosy from her end either, you know.

And, I don't see how you can possibly argue that it's only possible to
be truly overshadowed by a sibling if you're the *younger* sibling.
Like Simon, my family had one academic child (me) and one social child
(my sister).  Doesn't matter which order it was -- I *was* jealous of &
overshadowed by her social successes, and she was jealous of &
overshadowed by my academic successes.  Being overshadowed is NOT
limited to being the younger kid!  Good grief!

> I see no evidence that
> any of Ron's family (except Ginny in CoS for being friends with Harry --
> oh, and Fred & George about the flying car) are envious of anything that
> Ron has done.
>
We may not see envy, but we do see pride.  Percy was so proud of Ron's
getting past McGonagall's chess set in SS, remember?  And, the Weasleys
show family closeness and concern for one another all the time.  His
accomplishments do get rewarded with praise and attention.

> DrMM (now realizing a long, thought-out and eloquent response can take
> *far* more than 30 minutes)
>
Yes!  It can . . . . <g>

Shifting to Susan

Susan said:

> I like Ron, myself, but I also like Hermione. She stops being
> obnoxious and gets less and less obnoxious as the books go on and she
> matures. She wants to succeed, and will do that through book learning.
> However, she starts breaking rules, and is terrific about supporting
> her friends. I think she's a great person and don't understand Dr MM
> why you don't like her. She supports Harry, but more importantly
> doesn't take advantage of their split to ingratiate herself with one
> or the other, she tries to get them to be friends again.
>
I agree -- she's less & less of a bossy bookworm, even by the end of
SS.  Her friendship with Harry & Ron helps her grow as a person.  And,
she's really grown alot by GoF IMO.

> Hermione slaps Malfoy, too (and she comes up with the Polyjuice Potion as a strategy..brilliant
> AND daring)
>
Yes . . . Ron and Harry didn't want to go along with that plan in the
beginning.  She's already showing a streak of independence . . .thinking
outside the box . . . stepping outside her comfort zone of books and
rules.  Great point Susan!  Adding it to my character summary . . . .

> What so Hermione should censor herself so that the boys, oops, other
> classmates don't feel bad and have a chance to answer the questions?
>
> It's the teacher's responsibility not to call on the smartest/best
> prepared student and equalize the answers. The student's responsibility
> is to answer the questions.
>
ABSOLUTELY!  I agree 100% with this one.  My sister is a teacher, and
she's done some master's papers on this subject (which I'm familiar with
mainly because I serve as her editor -- <g>).  Hermione is assertive in
class . . . and Amen!  There's a huge problem with girl students being
left behind from the earliest years in elementary school because the
teachers "favor" the boys in math & science lessons.  They call on them
& use them as examples, etc.  If Hermione is getting all the glory in
class, well . . . it's either because none of the others try and answer
questions or because the teachers are singling her out at the expense of
the others.  Lupin seems to do a good job of letting her shine now &
again but making the other students feel important too.  Snape, OTOH,
derides her for her enthusiasm and knowledge .  . . . even when she's
clearly the only one brave enough to try & answer his questions.

> Hermione is having fun. She goes to the ball. She has adventures with
> Ron and Harry. But she loves to study and work and focus on
> knowledge...there seems to be a thread here that she shouldn't be
> so intense about knowledge and grades, etc. Why shouldn't she?
> Maybe she'll be an Einstein or a Madame Curie...or maybe she'll
> become obsessed with writing seven novels about something the way her
> creator is.....The obsessors and the driven and the geniuses and the
> geeks, and the crusaders (SPEW) and the  serious ones have a place in
> the world, even if they are not always liked and admired by those who play quidditch, open joke shops, love
> to party, etc.
>
ABSOLUTELY agree with this one too!  Hermione (who *is* my favorite
character *and* the one I identify most with on many levels) is the
"full package" as my husband would say.  She's got it all -- brains,
social conscience, friends who love her, the ability to be more than
just a "plain Jane" when she chooses (both Harry and Ron were floored by
her appearance at the Yule Ball), the ability to take risks and have
fun!  She's a winner all the way around in my book.

Eggplant wrote:

> >Brian wrote:
> >Since I haven't seen anyone else  give examples for the "Hermione's
> >an obnoxious braggart" issue, I  would like to bring up her
> >statement that she got something like 112%  on Flitwick's test and
> >her following statement "they're not going to  throw *me* out after
> that!".
>
> Let's put that remark in context. She said she should be the one to
> actually steal the ingredients for the polly juice potion from Snape,
> a pretty gutsy thing to do by the way. When asked why she be the one
> to do this dangerous job she explained, accurately I think, why she
> was less likely to be expelled if caught than Ron or Harry. I like
> Hermione and she has no need to apologize for being smart.
>
Yep -- that was going to be my point but Eggplant beat me to it.  She's
*still* not bragging in my mind.  I have yet to see any evidence of her
"bragging."  But, I'm working on the Hermione character FAQ this morning
& will be going through the books with a fine-tooth comb.  Will be on
the lookout, I assure you.

MOLLY WEASLEY -- I agree with Susan and Simon.  The owl was a gift for
being made a prefect, and it was from Arthur.  Percy is hardly
*showered* with gifts.  The Burrow is a great place to grow up, and it's
apparent that both Arthur & Molly love their kids unconditionally.

I think Percy gets extra attention from Molly, but like I said, *I*
think it's because he's the most like her.  He's a bit pompous and bossy
(Molly is too), he walks the straight & narrow and is constantly
reminding everyone of the "rules" (Molly there too), and he has a strong
sense of ambition that I wager he gets from Molly.

All in all, I think Ron is just missing the boat with his family -- he
wants the fame and fortune so badly that he forgets to look and see what
he does have, something so much more important than fame and wealth to
most people (especially Harry) -- a loving family who support him
unconditionally.

Penny


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