Javert/Snape parallels
lea.macleod at gmx.net
lea.macleod at gmx.net
Wed Apr 11 11:08:20 UTC 2001
No: HPFGUIDX 16376
Andrea wrote:
> --- lea.macleod at g... wrote:
> > I think the life-saving-and-being-indebted-to-
> > your-worst-enemy-parallel between
> > Javert and Snape is so obvious that it has lead us
> > to parallel their characters and cases entirely. We shouldn´t do
that.The parallel ends here.
>
> Hrm. Well, I agree to a certain extent, but I do see
> parallels in them stil. I don't think Snape has
> "gotten over" or worked through the issues raised by
> his debt to James. In many ways, he's simply shut off
> his brain to that portion, until of course he was
> confronted head on with Harry, who we've always heard
> looks extraordinarily like James.
>
> True, Snape definitely handles this differently from
> Javert. But I do see Snape as still having a
> very difficult time struggling with his world view.
------------
Yes, I agree. I did some reading last night (NOT HP for a change) and
I realised that Snape is *NOT* Javert. They are alike as being
confronted with the same conflict. This conflict occurs because they
experience something that upsets their world views utterly. But
they´re not alike at all in their handling of it.
heidi wrote:
>He (Javert) actually does have choices, but selecting any of them
>would force himself to reconsider his ideals and perspectives, and
>even the act of reconsideration would be tantemount to a violation
>of such ideals and perspectives, and therefore, the weak, cowardly
>decision is made to not engage in such self-examination. Snape, on
>the other hand, I believe, has reconsidered his perspecitves, and
>probably his ideals . And in so doing, he has made brave decisions
>that are fully opposite to the idea of cowardice.
Yes! Snape´s ideals and perspectives have probably been shaken more
severely and thoroughly than anyone else´s in all the books. He´s been
through the most fundamental process of reconsideration you can
imagine. Hate him if you like for his unfairness towards Harry - in
the end you will realise (along with Harry, I hope) you´ve done him
enormous injustice.
--------------------------
> Oh, I just had an interesting thought. Snape became a
> Death Eater and then later turned back to the Light
> <g> and began working as a sort of double-agent. What
> if his initial turn to working for Voldemort was as a
> way to put his world-view back in order after James
> screwed around with it? (Andrea II)
Sounds good, but I think Snape joining the DE wasn´t much of a
long-pondered and autonomous decision. Remember when he joined them,
he was very young (JKR said he´s in his late thirties at the end of
GoF), and he was in a Slytherin gang, and he knew curses before he
even came to Hogwarts (where would he have learned them but in his
family?), so his socialisation was throughout Slytherin/Dark Arts.
I believe *the* decision of his life was not joining the DE but
turning back to *the Light*. Let´s go looking for a reason for *this*.
It may be found in the James-Snape-relationship.
----------------
Amanda wrote (longwindedly on her favourite subject):
>I've been pondering, as I threatened. Javert "broke," I think,
because
> he spent his whole life in that black/white rules mode.Yes,it can be
>perceived as a kind of cowardice; for Javert, it was armor, and it
>failed him.
> Okay. Snape. I think he has not always been so rules-oriented. I
>think he's in some sort of "pause" mode. His reliance on the
>importance of rules seems to me not on the same scale as Javert's.
>Rules and such seem important to Snape, but on a more intellectual,
>less "gut" level than they do to Javert. For Javert, they are the
>fabric of the universe. For Snape, they are a non-emotional means to
>view and interact with the world.
Very well pondered, Amanda. I´ve got nothing to add to that.
>I think in his past he was not the contained, controlled man we see
>now; it is always an invoking of the past, of old associations or old
>relationships, that provoke the emotion in him, including the insane
>emotional scene in PoA.
I don´t think he´s a controlled, contained man even now. Alright, he´s
not exactly keen on talking to other people about his personal
problems (do we know, though? What about him and Prof. McGonagall
sitting in front of a cosy fireplace on a rainy saturday afternoon,
having some tea, immersed deeply in conversation about personal moral
and ethical standards? I don´t think that´s entirely absurd)
But still, Snape hardly ever makes a secret of his feelings towards
anyone, even Dumbledore. But instead of appreciating it as an honest,
straightforward, if slightly un-diplomatic attitude, he experiences it
as a weakness.
Just a side-thought: I don´t think Snape makes a good liar. Meaning
he´s probably good at it technically (having been a spy), but I´m
quite sure he abhors it, inwardly.
>I don't, for the record, think the main irritant to Snape was ever a
>lack of public recognition. Snape has never indicated that he assigns
>the slightest importance to what anyone else thinks, saving probably
>Dumbledore and McGonagall (and perhaps a few other teachers). The
>people he values know his choices and worth; I doubt he gives a
>tinker's damn for the opinions of people he doesn't value. His
>ambition, I think, follows such private avenues, and does not
>actively seek public acclaim (although he, like most of us, probably
>wouldn't mind...).
Yes, doesn´t Quirrel say something like "he did make himself
unpopular", when he explains to Harry at the end of HPPS that Snape
didn´t want to kill him but saved his life. Snape obviously didn´t
mind.
But how does this fit with Lupin´s statement at the end of PoA that
"The loss of the Order of Merlin hit him hard"?
---------------------------
And now things were getting out of hand on this thread!
Just because someone made a connection between your two favourite
books, don´t go and try to force them into the same pattern! It won´t
work anyway. The books may have *nothing* in common except that you
like them both!
heidi wrote:
> I've *tried* to place the HP characters into Les Miz - both the
>book and the musical - and I cannot get it to work.
I must say that doesn´t surprise me at all.
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