Steve's Canon versus Fanfic Post

[Steve Vander Ark]

No: HPFGUIDX 16397

Yeehaw! 

> > The characters in the books are what they are, they aren't real
> > people with all sorts of depth that JKR hasn't found space to
> > include. JKR doesn't write most of her characters with the kind of
> > depth you are inventing for them. She might in the future, but she
> > hasn't so far.
> 
> How do you know?  How do you know she doesn't intend to redeem 
Draco and
> that the hints of redemptive possibility that Heidi picked up on 
for her
> fanfic were not *exactly* what JKR intended?  How can you possibly 
say
> that your interpretation of the canon is precisely 100% exactly 
what JKR
> intended?  If all 1100+ of us are reading the same books, Steve, 
AND as
> you seem to imply, there is only one and only one interpretation of
> Snape (JKR's), then how can there *possibly* be all these
> interpretations of Snape that we come up with?  The reason is 
simple.
> Everyone brings their own experiences & perceptions to literary
> interpretation.  That's the point!!

YES!!! That's EXACTLY my point. *I* don't know. *You* don't know. The 
writers of fanfic don't know. We're all assuming and interpreting and 
changing what's there. And what I try to avoid are other people's 
assumptions and creative alterations of the characters. I am trying 
SO hard NOT to assume, NOT to color what little is there with 
suppositions. I don't care at all if someone else wants to go there. 
I don't and I am trying to explain why I would make that choice. 


> 
> You believe that Snape is a stereotype.  There are lots of other 
people,
> including Amanda who spoke out in support of your post, who think 
Snape
> is anything *but* a stereotype.  Which one of you is correct?  JKR
> hasn't *said* that he is or isn't a stereotype.

You are right. But neither is he a multi-leveled, subtley shaded, 
nuanced character of the type you find in literature. His actions are 
almost invariably somewhere between rude and downright despicable. 
There is virtually nothing in the canon besides that. There are a few 
tidbits here and there, such as the gripping of the back of the chair 
when he heard that Ginny had been taken into the Chamber of Secrets, 
but that is certainly nowhere near enough evidence to interpret the 
character in a completely different way from the way he's written. 
No, I don't know what JKR might do with the character down the line. 
No, I can't state her intentions any better than anyone else can. But 
I can read (and I am also a lit major, BTW, undergrad and postgrad).

> 
> I don't see what the point of a literary discussion group is if not 
to
> discuss all the various interpretations that can be brought to bear 
on a
> character or subplot or scene.  I will defer to Ebony and other
> English-major types, but IMO, it's very very very rare that the 
reading
> public ever knows exactly what the author intended with respect to 
every
> aspect of their works.  I'm writing a biography of an author right 
now,
> and let me assure you, I puzzle *daily* over what she meant and 
intended
> with virtually all aspects of her work.  Her work is complete & has 
been
> for nearly 60 years.  She left some drafts, some correspondence, 
some
> notes.  But, you still can't expect that I or anyone else could ever
> absolutely 100% definitively piece together what she intended when 
she
> wrote each & every scene in her books.

Absolutely. Again, this is exactly my point. 

You notice that I went out of my way to say that for many people, 
fanfic is exactly the way they want to enjoy their Harry Potter. 
That's terrific. I am not disparaging that (although I can't seem to 
say that clearly enough to stop the knee-jerk defensive reactions). 
My intention is not to convince people not to read fanfic! It just 
seems that some people don't understand why others might NOT want to 
read it.

> 
> > But fanfic, as the past few posts have clearly stated, changes 
your
> > perception of the characters, and in ways which almost without 
fail
> > the author did not intend.
> 
> Again, I'm completely mystified that you believe that it's possible 
to
> discern JKR's intent, particularly since the canon is only a little 
over
> halfway done at this point.

I don't. Not at all. And for me, I don't then want to read other 
people's versions and interpretations in fiction form.

> 
> > That kind of coloring of what's actually there is what I do not 
want
> > to have happen to me. I don't WANT to feel sympathetic toward 
Draco
> > or Snape. That's not the way the characters are portrayed in the
> > books. (No, it isn't; they're stereotypes, let's face it).
> 
> You might want to say that it's *your* individual personal
> interpretation that these characters are portrayed as stereotypes.  
It
> sounds to me like you want to hold on to Harry's POV and *his*
> interpretations of the characters at all costs.

It is my interpretation, sure. I never said I didn't interpret. I 
know I do, everyone does. Again, that's my point! I don't WANT 
anyone's interpretations to interfere. I can't avoid my own, although 
I do try to keep as objective as possible. But I can avoid others'. 
You should keep in mind that I edit the Lexicon, so I have other 
reasons for keeping only the canon in mind as I work. But I'd feel 
this way whether or not I was the editor of the Lexicon.


> 
> > You forever lose JKR's own version of the characters she has 
created.
> 
> But, everyone has their own personal version of her characters.  
Take a
> look at the character discussions that have gone on over the last 6 
mths
> or so.  We all put our own spin on the characters.  They're the same
> characters that JKR created.  But, everyone looks at them in a 
different
> way.

And I don't have a problem with that. But there is a tremendous 
difference between discussions and fiction. As a reader and a student 
of literature, I am very aware of the fact that a person's reactions 
to those two types of written expression--discussion/essay and 
fiction--are very different. They each influence perceptions in very 
different ways. Fiction is far more subtle in the way it colors your 
thinking. Again, I have absolutely no problem with people reading 
fanfic and enjoying that form of influence on their perceptions. Why 
does it bother some of you that everyone doesn't want that too?

 
> I don't mean to sound argumentative, but I think you've completely
> missed the point of the posts yesterday regarding fanfic versus 
canon.
> Some fanfic is poorly-written or departs so completely from the 
canon
> that it isn't even recognizable.  But, there are lots of fanfic 
pieces
> that can challenge a person to go back & re-read canon with a new
> perspective (a perspective that might very well be just as valid in
> JKR's eyes as the one you originally held I might add) -- it adds a
> completely new dimension to the way you enjoy the books.  It's that 
sort
> of fanfic that is great. 

I completely agree. I didn't misread anything. I think you misread me 
if you think I'm being critical of that form of expression of Harry 
Potter. I say AGAIN: I think it's WONDERFUL that people write and 
read fanfic. But let's acknowledge it DOES influence the reader in 
subtle, irreversable ways in the way they read the books (as you just 
pointed out) and that's the point I am making.


 It's just a different medium from you & I
> posted pro/con reasons for the student numbers being what they 
are.  I
> could just as easily create a fanfic that illustrates my point on 
that
> very same issue.

But that discussion concerns a number, a fairly objective detail. It 
wouldn't be very hard to keep that in persepctive, even in a fanfic 
setting. What we're talking about in fanfic, however, is character 
stuff, very subjective and easily altered without the reader even 
realizing it. 


> 
> Until you can interview JKR and ask specifically, did you intend XYZ
> when you wrote this scene ... I don't see how one can possibly argue
> that her intent is clear. 

I don't argue that her intent is clear. I argue, however, that it's 
hers to reveal in her own good time, and I argue that there's nothing 
wrong with either decision: 1) read the interpretative fiction of 
others or 2) wait until the end of the seven books to see where JKR 
takes it herself. Each choice has perfectly good reasoning behind it 
and shouldn't be maligned. 

 Even then, it would be good to have a
> follow-up question that says, "Do you think ABC is a valid alternate
> interpretation of your scene?"  She's an author and doubtless would
> consider that there is more than one interpretation for everything 
in
> her books; there's even more than one path that she could have 
chosen
> (having written myself, I can say that you sometimes weigh multiple
> valid courses of action but eventually must choose only one).  
Anyway,
> I'm completely opposed to the notion that there is only one JKR
> interpretation of these characters and books and I'm especially 
opposed
> to the notion that this one interpretation is discernible by people
> other than JKR herself.

I agree again, wholeheartedly. And I say again that THAT IS MY POINT. 
I don't WANT to read someone else's interpretation. I will wait for 
JKR to take things where she wants. I don't read fanfic because it is 
someone else's assumptions and interpretations being insinuated into 
my perceptions. And there's nothing illogical about not wanting that.

Steve
(fondly)