Ron's Jealousy of Harry; Hermione & OCD

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 16628

Hi --

Demelza wrote:

> Nope. As I explained above, a hypothesis was put forth that Ron is
> jealous of Harry's fame and attention. Jealousy is an observed
> behavior. Hermione observed this behavior somewhere to make that
> assessment. Because the revelation occurs in Ch 18 GoF, the behavior
> had to have occurred before that chapter and perhaps before GoF.
> <snip> I looked through the data I had (the books by
> J.K. Rowling) for signs of this observed behavior. I couldn't find
> anything in the prior books or in the chapters leading up to Ch 18.
> GoF that Ron is jealous of Harry's fame and attention. Again, I would
> be interested to find evidence to supports it.

There is evidence of jealousy in Chapter 7 of GoF.  It's not evidence of
Ron's jealousy of Harry's *fame,* but it is evidence of Ron's jealousy
of Harry's money.

"No -- don't bother," said Ron, going red.  He was always touchy about
the fact that Harry, who had inherited a small fortune from his parents,
had much more money than he did."

[side note: Rita -- this is JKR referring to the Potter wealth as a
"small fortune" -- it seems you challenged last weekend that it might be
a large fortune.  All a matter of perspective, but JKR does describe it
here as a "small" fortune]

> Please see the above quoted section from GoF Ch 18. Harry is
> "incredulous" at this jealousy revelation.
> Later in Ch 18 can be found this curious passage:
> ***
> Harry didn't answer. Yes, everything did seem to happen to him
that
> was more or less what Hermione had said as they walked about the lake,
>
> and that was the reason, according to her, that Ron was no longer
> talking to him.
> ***
> "that was the reason, according to [Hermione], that Ron was no longer
> talking to him."
> Interesting choice of words J.K.Rowling has chosen. It doesn't say
> "that was the reason Ron was no longer talking to him". It qualifies
> that this is _Hermione's_ reason, with almost implying that Harry
> that's not Harry's reason too.

Yes, but he still doesn't think, "She's off her rocker; that's just
crazy.  I've seen no evidence of that."  No, he just seems to realize
that he's been blind not to see it before.

I don't think JKR has to give us factual evidence of *everything* in
order to interject something like this.  It didn't jar with me as a
reader.  I didn't think to myself, "Ron jealous?  Of Harry's fame?
Where'd *that* come from?"  No, I was reading along & thinking, "Well,
of course he is."  It fits IMO.

The R/H shippers are under the impression that Hermione spends all her
time, when not with Ron & Harry or just Harry, with Ron.  So, if true,
she's in a good position to know if he's jealous of Harry's fame. We as
readers might not be privy to it since we're only given Harry's POV for
the most part.

The important thing to me though is that Harry doesn't internally or
externally deny that Ron could be jealous of his fame and the attention
that he receives.  He may have been initially surprised to hear it
vocalized, and you're right, he ruminates about it later.  But, he
doesn't attempt to explain it away.

> Only AFTER Harry tells his side of the story, does Hermione say she
> noticed his demeanor and that she believed him.

She may have been "staring blankly back" as far as Harry's view was
concerned.  But, you can't possibly argue that he could have known what
was going on inside her head while she was staring back at him.  Just
because her expression, as far as shocked/stunned Harry is concerned,
didn't reflect what she she later claimed she was thinking doesn't mean
she *wasn't* thinking it.  We only have her word that she was thinking
it.  But, I believe her (and so does Harry).

> 1. is preoccupied with details, rules, lists, order, organization, or
> schedules to the extent that the major point of the activity is lost

If the point of the activity was lost, Hermione wouldn't achieve top
marks.  She'd just obsess about the study schedules and the organization
of her notes but not do well on the exams.  We know this isn't true.

> 3. is excessively devoted to work and productivity to exclusion of
> leisure activities and friendships (not accounted for by obvious
> economic necessity)

We don't know what she does with *all* her leisure time.  You can't say
that you know for sure what she's doing 100% of the time when she is not
with Harry.  We may have the impression from Harry that she spends alot
of time studying, but we have no evidence of this.  She also spends some
time playing chess with Ron (if you're a R/H shipper, you think she
plays alot of chess games with Ron).  If you're a Ginny fan, you believe
that she spends plenty of leisure time cultivating a friendship with
Ginny who's burgeoning into a lovely young lady who will be perfect for
Harry.  Point is: we don't know what she does with her "leisure time."

> 4. is over-conscientious, scrupulous, and inflexible about matters of
> morality, ethics, or values (not accounted for by cultural or
> religious identification)

Maybe.  If SPEW is the only example though, I hardly think this
qualifies her for OCD.

> 8. shows rigidity and stubbornness"

Alot of people show rigidity & stubbornness.  She doesn't meet 4 of your
definitions IMO, so this alone (or even arguably in conjunction with #4)
above is, IMO, not nearly enough to make the assertion that she has OCD.

> In the meantime, she can be possibly diagnosed as Personality
> Disorder, NOS which is a category for disorders that do not meet
> criteria for any specific Personality Disorder.

LOL!  So .... we could all have a personality disorder under this random
catch-all categroy, yes?!  I guess if you're that determined to argue
that Hermione has a personality disorder ....

> Desiring academic acheivement is no different than desiring financial
> stability or fame. Both can be 'good' because it can serve as
> motivation. Both can be 'bad' when that desire becomes overwhelming to
>
> the point of self-destruction.

I see no evidence that Hermione is self-destructing, Demelza.  As
someone else noted, she does achieve her goals (academic success), in
contrast to Ron, who seemingly makes little or no effort to meet his own
ambitions or goals (or even recognize that he has them).

> Phobias can be debilitating to those who have them. For someone with a
>
> phobia , for example of frogs, to even be in the same room with the
> object is a tremendous accomplishment. Sure Ron was pale and
> diaphoretic, but he still faced Aragog and overcame his fear, even if
> it was a little. Hermione on the other hand, ran screaming from her
> boggart.

Please understand me.  I've said this several times now.  I tremendously
admire that Ron was able to follow the spiders into the forest!!  I do.
Really.  I was just arguing that it's not true to say that he "overcame"
his fear of spiders.  If he overcame that fear, he wouldn't still wince
or push back in his seat during Moody's lesson in GoF.  He does a great
job of facing Aragog boggart in PoA.  He's most definitely "confronted"
his fear head-on, and made very very admirable steps toward facing up to
it.  I merely objected to the use of the word "overcame."  That's all.
Put your weapons away.  <g>  Believe me, I have an intense phobia of
palmetto bugs (large flying cockroaches), and I wouldn't follow even one
of them anywhere, let alone a line of them.  I've been known to close
off a room until my husband comes home ... and then made him show me the
dead body (from a distance!) so he couldn't just say, "Yeah, I killed
it."

Penny


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