Patroni, memories, Dementors - Who killed J&L

[Amy Z]

No: HPFGUIDX 17230

Milz wrote:

>BTW, does anyone remember what Lupin's patronus was? 

And what about Dumbledore's?  (The book doesn't say.  I just 
wondered.)

Monika wrote:

>I'm quite sure about what Sirius saw when the Dementors surrounded 
him near
>the lake. He collapsed although he had been around Dementors for 
twelve years.

Ooh--what did he see, IYO?  I imagine finding your best friend's 
corpse ranks way up there--on the other hand, who knows what further 
horrors he saw while in Azkaban.

I wrote:

> I wonder what the others hear and see when the Dementors are near? 
> Ron, Hermione, Neville, Draco, Fred, George?  And Lupin, who
> subjects himself to it repeatedly when training Harry?
 
Magda wrote:

>I don't think the Dementors affect people like that; they're icky and
>scary in themselves, but Harry's reaction is special.  
>
>For the others' reactions and their fears, you have to look at
>Boggarts.

Harry's reaction seems to be special in degree, but not otherwise 
unusual.  Hagrid says when he was in Azkaban he kept reliving the 
experiences of his father's death, his expulsion from school, and 
having to give up Norbert.  Whatever the others' worst memories are 
would seem to be what flooded their heads when the Dementor came into 
the compartment.

I think boggarts, on the other hand, can turn into things you've never 
encountered; they aren't about memory, but fear.  Parvati hasn't 
necessarily ever seen a mummy--she's just scared of the thought of 
them.  What do you think?

Samaporn wrote:

> Another thought about Lupin: the use of 'Lupin' as a last name is 
> quite fitting, but now I'm wondering ... is this a name he came up 
> for himself after he was bitten by a werewolf, or was his family 
> name really 'Lupin', and the fact that he became a werewolf was 
> just a big coincidence

And what about his first name?  Remus, along with Romulus, was 
abandoned in the wilderness and raised by wolves.  Naming your child 
Remus Lupin is just begging for a werewolf to come get him.

With the name-that-tips-off-an-important-characteristic, JKR is in the 
grand tradition of Roald Dahl, Charles Dickens, and Joan Aiken (Auntie 
Tribulation being one of my favorite villain names).  There's a 
tension between realism (and I do think JKR is essentially a realist 
author) and humor.

Naama wrote:

>when the boggart turns to a Dementor for 
>Harry's benefit, it is a Dementor and should affect Lupin as such. If 
>you recall from the overcome-your-worst-fear lesson, everybody could 
>see and be affected by what the boggart turned into (the banshee, for 
>instance, gave Harry the creeps, IIRC).

That's the way I figured it.  Also, the lights in the classroom go 
out, as they would with a real Dementor, and the Dementor can be 
turned aside by a Patronus.  The Boggart-Dementor's power isn't just 
in Harry's head; when it assumes the shape of a Dementor, it is for 
all intents and purposes a Dementor, though it can also be fought as 
one fights a Boggart.  In GF Harry uses first the Patronus, then 
"Riddikulus" on the Boggart in the maze.

Ebony wrote:

>This week, I've been browsing at Steve's Lexicon (excellent 
website!)... and IIRC, there's a theory over there that Voldemort 
>did NOT kill the Potters... someone else did.  I'm not sure if that 
was 
>Steve's idea or someone else's.  Intriguing, though, if not 
plausible.

IIRC, that theory was proposed as one way to explain why James came 
out of the wand first.  If Lily died first, it suggests that Harry was 
attacked after his mother was killed but before his father was, 
because the last thing V did with his wand was attack Harry, then he 
lost his powers.  So, someone else has to have killed James with V's 
wand after Lily was killed and Harry attacked; hence the "Peter was 
along and mopped up after his destroyed master" and related theories.

Amy Z

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 "I might remind you that =your= pincushion,
 Thomas, still curls up in fright if anyone
 approaches it with a pin!"
                  -HP and the Goblet of Fire
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