Italian Translations and a little question

[rcraigharman at hotmail.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 17845

Amanda Lewanski <editor at t...> wrote:
> Momiji wrote:
> > This is the Italian name's translations :
> >
> > Argus Filch=Argus Gazza
> 
> Are there any connotations or overtones to "gazza" like there are in
> English to "filch"? I know nothing of Italian....

It's a magpie as well as a garrulous, gossipy person.  Even if magpies 
are known for their theft, the secondary meaning of a _talkative_ 
gossip misses the point completely.


> > Cornelius Fudge=Cornelius Caramell
> 
> Funny, but I bemoan the loss of the double meaning. Fudge is a
> candy, but it's also a verb in English.

The verb was probably JKR's intended meaning, imho.  I would have used 
 "Tartruffo", a portmanteau between "tartufo" = "truffle" and 
"truffatore" = "a cheat".  Or maybe "Mentino", like "mint", but 
reminiscent of "mentito" = "false", "disguised" (from "mentire" = "to 
lie").  

 
> > Crabbe=Tiger
> 
> This gives him entirely too much dignity and presence, don't you
> think? Tigers have "positive" overtones, in my mind at least.

Mine too.  Why not just something like "Grancho"?  It even sounds good 
with "Gollo", which is what I would have used for "Goyle".  A cross 
between "gargolla" = "gargoyle" and "goloso" = "gluttonous".


> > Crookshanks=Grattastinchi
> 
> What a regal-sounding mouthful! I love it.

Yes, but there are many long words that sound wonderful in Italian.  
After all, "basketball" is "pallacanestro"!

"Grattastinchi" = "scratch shins".  It could have been "Uncinastinchi" 
= "bent shins" or something closer.  :^)


> > Gilderoy Lockhart=Gilderoy Allock
> 
> Again, does "Allock" have any sort of meaning, sound like any
> similar words, in Italian?

"Allocco" is a dolt or a nincompoop.  It misses the romantic/gorgeous 
overtones ("locks of hair", "heart"), but I guess it's not bad.


> > Mad Eye Moody= Malocchio Moody
> 
> Does this mean "bad eyes" or "bad head"?

Bad eye.


> > Marcus Flint=Marcus Flitt
> 
> Flitt makes him sound, well, lighter. Not such a malevolent
> presence.

"Selce" would be "Flint" in Italian, maybe "Selcone" would work.


> > Minerva McGonagall=Minerva McGranitt
> 
> Ooooh. And this makes *her* sound much less bend-able, much more
> stern and unyielding.

Yeah, it's pretty awful.

Incidentally, I've never seen a name origin site comment on the name 
McGonagall, so here it is from a defunct site that I found off Google
(http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:clanhuston.com/name/namei-o.htm)

"Mc Gonigle is an Irish patronymic name, Anglicized from the Gaelic 
Mac Congail, a patronymic form of the name Congal. The given name 
Congal is comprised of Old Celtic elements that mean "high, valour," 
and Mac Congal is literally translated as "Son of Congal." The name is 
 most often found as McGonigle, but McGonagle is a common variation.

So her name is literally "descendant of high valor".  I love JKR!

Perhaps something like "McCorragil" from "corragio" = courage would 
have worked.


> > Mrs. Norris=Mrs. Purr
> 
> Ugh. No. Ick. Bleah. This is the sort of name my daughter would
> give a toy Tribble. No presence at all as a real entity, much less
> any unpleasantness.

And it misses the play on Mrs. Norris which I remember someone 
pointing out is a nod to a character in Jane Austin's, "Mansfield 
Park."


> > Neville=Longbottom Neville Paciock
> 
> Is "Paciock" reminiscent of any Italian words? Does this mean
> anything?

"pacioccone" = "chubby person"


> > Oliver Wood=Oliver Baston
> 
> Somehow this has the right "feel" to me, I can go with this.

"Baston" is a club, cudgel, stick, loaf of French bread.  Like "bâton" 
in French and "baton" in English.


> > Penelope Clearwater=Penelope Light
> 
> Wonder why they didn't just translate Clearwater.

No idea.  Light is pretty stupid, and "Chiar'acqua" would have been 
just fine, if you ask me.

 
> > Professor Quirrel=Professor Raptor
> 
> Quirrell sounds so weenie to me. Reminiscent of quaver and quandary
> and other "wavery" words, and rhyming with "squirrel," not the most
> stable and dependable (or dangerous) of animals. But Raptor sounds
> powerful and dangerous. I don't like this change.

I commented on this in another post, and I agree, the "qu-" beginning 
is rich with implications.

 
> > Severus Snape=Severus Piton
> 
> Does "Piton" mean anything?

Oh, I missed this in my other post.  "Piton" is "pitóne" = "python".  
Obviously, the translator chose to interpret "Snape" as a cross 
between "snake" and "snipe".  Thouge I can see the argument that this 
is another of JKR's portmanteaux, I'm not convinced.

 
> > Trevor=Oscar
> 
> Trevor the Toad was alliterative in English. What's "toad" in
> Italian?

It's "rospo".  Perhaps they could have gone with "Roberto il Rospo".  
Besides as I like to play around with my own first name (Robert), I 
note that "Robert" and "Trevor" are near palindromes.


> > Wendelin the Weird=Guendalina la Guercia
> 
> This, I like. Does it mean "the weird"? But it surely has a good
> sound to it.

Well, the "W-" words in English are often "Gu-" in French, Italian, 
Spanish, etc.  "guercia" is cross-eyed.  But worse than that, the 
translator changed the gender!  "Wendelin" is a man's name!  
"Guendalina" is clearly female.


> > I don't like this translations... Some are perfect, but many are
> > too "childish"...
> 
> Well, in English many of the associations, and their associated
> meanings, are obvious and can seem childish, too. I just wonder at
> changing things that would seem perfectly normal, like Parvati's
> name, which is an exotic name in England, too.

I think the real problem is that the translator needed to have a 
glossary of the meanings of the names and their overtones, rather than 
 simply relying on guesses and a poor comprehension of English.

....Craig, translator from time to time