Hermione's age (was A Mistake and a Question)

[Ebony AKA AngieJ]

No: HPFGUIDX 23386

> Steve Vander Ark wrote:
> 
> >The clincher, though, is going to have to come from our British 
> >friends. In my opinion, if they say that parents do get to make 
that 
> >kind of a choice in British schools (and in fairly traditional 
> >schools, which Hogwarts certainly is), then I'd say Hermione is 
young 
> >for her class. That would almost certainly be what would happen in 
> >the US. If they say that no, the rule is always Sept 1 and is 
really 
> >never broken, then I'd say that Hermione is very old for her grade 
> >and turns 12 three weeks after the start of their first term in 
1981.

David wrote:
> I am British.
> 
> I think there are two issues to be settled.  The first is, what is 
the British school year.  The answer is 1 September to 31 August.
> 
> The second is, how strictly does Hogwarts enforce age limits.  
Buedefixe is right when s/he points out that parental choice earlier 
on has little effect.  If Hermione *is* 10 when she starts, she might 
just have to miss her final year at Muggle primary school.
> 
> The fact that JKR has implied a fairly mechanical process would say 
to me that, in the absence of any reason to the contrary, McGonagall 
would write to everybody turning 11 in the current school year.  She 
knows of no special circumstance in Hermione's case.  There is no 
mention of parents negotiating (which could only delay entry anyway - 
the Grangers would not have known of Hogwarts until their letter) 
entry dates.  People like the Malfoys might try, but unlikely Muggles.
> 
> That would make Hermione 11 when she started, and 12 very soon 
thereafter, and almost a year older than Harry.


OK--first off, I realize I have no authority to speak on this, being 
an American.  I dined with several Brits from the lists last weekend 
and we talked about it... I was the only one who is in the "Hermione 
was born in 1980, of course" camp.

But I think the 1979 date for Hermione's birth is incorrect... and I 
think that the proof is somewhere embedded in canon, just like I 
found the rationalization for why Angelina is not a seventh year in 
GoF.  (See archives.)

Well, doesn't the fact that Angelina is 17 by October and is an "old" 
sixth year argue for the fact that Hermione is an "old" sixth year?

Not necessarily.

There is a place *somewhere* in canon during which Hermione's age is 
either stated or implied... I know there is!... and it didn't ring 
the "oh, she's older than everyone else!" bell.  If she were nearly a 
year older than her classmates, I think this not only would have been 
more obvious in the narrative, but her characterization would have 
been a bit different as well IMO.

The only way I can rationalize Hermione being 12, 13, 14, and 15 
years old in the respective books, in light of the way that JKR has 
portrayed her, is that *if* she had to sit out of school for nearly a 
year, she might feel as if she needs to prove something academically.

British or not, I don't *think* JKR intended for Hermione to be 
nearly a year ahead when she gave the September 19 date during a chat 
(which is how we know that is her birthday--unlike Harry's, we don't 
know the date from canon).  If she did, I don't think she would have 
put her stamp of approval on the actress who she ended up choosing 
for the movie.  From the glimpses I've seen on the trailer, I don't 
think that Emma Watson is supposed to be portraying a 12 year old.

As someone who just spent three years teaching adolescents year-
round, I know firsthand that the differences between each age in the 
9-14 bracket is PHENOMENAL.  And the gradations of personality change 
seem to vary according to gender too... respectively speaking, 
looking at the other characters around her, Hermione can't be a year 
ahead.  She's mature, but she isn't *that* mature.

We already KNOW how Jo is with numbers... we've already run into 
several logical contradictions in both canon and planon (Marcus Flint 
repeating a grade, L&J/MWPP/Snape ages, etc.).

While I appreciate the arguments for the 1979 birthdate as an 
educator (I've spent the entire summer studying the education system 
in the UK and Wales), as a writer I definitely think Hermione's 
birthday is September 19, 1980.  It just makes more sense.  If 
Hermione were older, I can't help but shake the feeling that 
something more might have been said about it and that JKR (who is 
EXCELLENT at spot-on character creation) would have made it more 
obvious.

We have a legal birthday cutoff in my state (students by law must be 
five years old by December 1st of the year they begin kindergarten), 
and my baby sister (born February 6) had to wait until the next fall 
to begin school because of it.  But I graduated from high school with 
kids who were as young as 15 and as old as 19... many of my friends 
who were on the "younger" side of things had educated parents who 
either got their four-year olds born in the autumn/winter into 
kindergarten by any means necessary or, failing that, even put them 
into PRIVATE school so that they could begin school during the year 
they turned five.  Do you mean to tell me that the British system is 
so rigid that there is no room for moving that date?  Even in 2001?  
Al, I know you're a British contemporary of the characters... do you 
mean to tell me that all of the kids in your school fell exactly 
between the September 1-August 31 boundaries?  I'll e-mail a couple 
of the headteachers I've met this summer today to get their take on 
this issue.

We can pick up this debate in one and a half months' time, I 
suppose... on 9/19/01, when half of us are wishing Hermione a happy 
21st and the other half are saying "no, no!  She's 22!"  And then 
there are those people who think we've got the dating all wrong and 
will be wishing her a happy 15th or a happy 16th... *goes cross-eyed*.

All right, back to lurkdom while my faulty logic gets torn to 
shreds.  :-D

--Ebony AKA AngieJ (who gets more and more nervous about posting 
anything of substance to the main list by the hour)