Sorting Hat considerations (was Chicken Meat)

[caliburncy at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 23468

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., dfrankiswork at n... wrote:
> Second, I want to try to move on by suggesting deeper topics that I 
> don't believe have been recently discussed, and I'm not sure were 
> fully discussed earlier.

These are some nice questions and I'd like to respond to pretty much 
all of them in depth.  This will probably take me a while so I'm just 
starting with one for a moment, while I collect my thoughts on some of 
the others.  I'm also giving each one I respond to its own seperate 
subject heading so people can get involved only on the questions that 
"speak to them".

> I hesitate to add this one, but what is the nature of the sorting 
> process at Hogwarts?  We have had endless discussions about why 
> Hermione isn't in Ravenclaw, and whether Slytherins have to be evil, 
> but I don't feel the interplay between characteristics (I am brave), 
> aspirations (I want to be brave), priorities (I think bravery is the 
> most important thing), morality (bravery is good) and choice (I want 
> to be with the brave) has really been explored.  How does the pesky 
> thing work?  Does the range of four possibilities say anything about 
> the nature of humanity as a whole?

What an excellent way to look at it!  I really like your distinctions 
a lot.  I'm going to start off with some general statements that do 
involve canon (references, not quotes), but are not meant to be proof. 
 I don't think we have proof of this, really.  So there's no point in 
me supplying all kinds of evidence.

We know the Sorting Hat apparently takes into account choice, from 
Harry's desire to not be in Slytherin.  Although one might argue that 
the choice simply reflected something in Harry's nature and it was not 
the choice itself.  It also might take into account priorities, since 
we do know Hermione says at the end of PS/SS that she thinks bravery 
and friendship are more important than books and cleverness.  This 
could be a partial explanation for why Hermione is in Gryffindor.  I 
don't think it explains everything though and it certainly sells 
Hermione short.  She is quite brave in many ways, she doesn't only 
VALUE bravery.  And most people would say the Hat MUST take into 
account characteristics to some extent, which is likely true.  
Aspirations could be a factor as well.  Such as in Neville's case, 
though this, too, I think sells him short since he does possess his 
own special kind of bravery.  So we're back to characteristics again 
in some capacity or another.

But (and here's where I get into the real part of my discussion) I do 
not think existing characteristics are the biggest factor.  I believe 
(with no evidence from canon) that the Sorting Hat makes it decisions 
based largely on another option: potential for growth (I would benefit 
from being with the brave).  Clearly several characters have been made 
better for the House they ended up in.  Neville is more assertive, 
Hermione has been more willing to expend rules for the sake of ethics. 
 Harry too has developed from being in Gryffindor, not only in a 
different way than had he been in Slytherin, but also had he been in 
Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw.  He needed like-minded people and, above all, 
acceptance.  I'm not sure he would have found this elsewhere, athough 
it would have brought out and developed other traits in him that he 
currently lacks.  This is a school, after all, and the primary goal is 
not to divide people, but to shape them.  In theory, the reason for 
the different houses should be to provide the students with the most 
nurturing environment that will allow them to grow and expand.  Now, 
normally I might say, "Leave it as a single, cohesive school body and 
they will do this on their own, and perhaps grow even further than 
they could divided."  After all, then they'd have the influence of all 
types.  But this might not work for some kids.  They would all go to 
their comfort zones, when they're comfort zones are NOT what they need 
to be in.  Well-tempered steel is made in a blast furnace, not 
roasting over a warm campfire.

One might wonder then, how come characters like Draco Malfoy and the 
other Slytherins don't get placed in circumstances where they 
would have more positive influences?  I agree there should be a better 
way (and one day, when we are infinitely wise we will find it and 
everyone will be perfect), but I do think there is an explanation.  
Draco Malfoy and others do not WANT to be helped in this way and there 
is nothing more foolish and time-wasting than trying to assist someone 
who won't let you help them.  Being with other ambitious people is at 
least helping them reach the goals they aspire to by putting their 
competitive natures to a constructive purpose (school).  I'm not sure 
putting them amidst Hufflepuffs would make them anything except 
resentful.  But I don't think they are lost causes.  Perhaps some of 
them, with such concentrated exposure to others like them will realize 
that they don't really like aspects of themselves.  This wouldn't 
happen if they were amidst Gryffindors.  I don't know; my thoughts are 
less coherent on this aspect.

No one has to agree with me here, although I'm sure many others have 
said this before.  I have no proof and I will likely never get any as 
I doubt this is important enough to be addressed in an upcoming book. 
 But this is the way I believe it OUGHT to work, for whatever that's 
worth.

I would also perhaps like to discuss how this applies to us outside of 
the books, but I've said more than enough for now.  Perhaps later once 
more people have had their chance to add to the interpretations as 
they apply to the books.

-Luke