This will probably get me kicked off the list, but .....

[Dai Evans]

No: HPFGUIDX 23517

You seem to have misunderstood exactly why the HP and the Bible topic 
has been deemed off-limits.

> if we can't say things like, "IMO, Harry is leading children down a 
> path toward Satanism and evil deeds because he sneaks out of bed 
and 
> VOldie actually is the devil and he acts like Hitler."  then what 
the 
> hell is the point of free speech (granted this only applies to US 
> folk)?  

We can say things like this anytime we like if we have a point to 
make. The reason that the descussion was boarded up is that people 
were not sticking to the facts of the matter and everything was 
degrading into personal sniping and insults.

We have had many debates on list, often which have become intense 
(just look at the shipping), but the religeon debate, along with some 
political remarks back during the US presidential election became 
more than just debates, descended into battles of pointless insults 
which made the list a less than pleasant place to be.

Emotions run high when dealing with some topics and unfortunately, as 
everyone on the list is human, this can lead to material being posted 
which have no place here. 

It is not because anyone on the list wants to deny anybody else their 
opinion, but because the subjects stir up such bad feeling and 
resentment.

I doubt anyone will be wanting to remove you from the list for 
expressing your annoyance with the system, but do please read back 
through the archives to the relevent debates so that you actually 
know why what happened did happen, rather than guessing at a 
situation, which turned out to be wrong.



Dai 

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "M. Barnett" <fyregirl at c...> wrote:
> I've been musing over the "lets-all-be-nice-to-one-another-and-
never-
> say-anything-that-could-possibly-even-remotely-offend-someone-even-
> the-littlest-tiniest-bit" thing.
> 
> Frankly, if this is a forum for GROWN UPS, why is it that so many 
> people lack the ability to converse in a grown up fashion about 
> things?
> 
> When I asked about HP and the Bible, I was asking for an adult 
> discussion about whether or not people actually see the HP books as 
> leading children, adults, anyone into "bad" things.  (I don't see 
> Paganism as a bad thing, but that because I am a Pagan).  I was 
quite 
> quickly and fiercely shot down because "we had this discussion 
before 
> and it created a Holy War".
> 
> Well, here's the part that'll probably get me kicked off.  I am 
going 
> to say what I think.  If someone is offended by something I say, 
then 
> they are quite free to address me, by email, on the list, 
whatever.  
> I would not intentionally slander anyone by saying something like 
> (gods forgive me for even thinking these words) "hey you niggers, 
> chinks, gooks, greaseballs, slimy brits, stupid yanks, your 
opinions 
> don't count for sh*t inthe scheme of things so shut the hell 
up"**.  
> And I'm pretty sure most people on here wouldn't do that either.  
But 
> if we can't say things like, "IMO, Harry is leading children down a 
> path toward Satanism and evil deeds because he sneaks out of bed 
and 
> VOldie actually is the devil and he acts like Hitler."  then what 
the 
> hell is the point of free speech (granted this only applies to US 
> folk)?  
> 
> I think it is very important to have healthy, sometimes heated 
> discussions in our lives.  It keeps us thinking, it keeps us 
> considering other possibilities.  I understand most people think 
> perception is reality, and for the most part, it is.  But if you 
are 
> offended by the slightest little reference to religion or to gays 
or 
> to politics or by someone having a different opinion than you, then 
> really, you need to open your mind a little and realize that there 
> are so many different views on life and just because it isn't the 
> same as your view, doesn't mean it is wrong, bad, unholy, whatever.
> 
> Ok, Yup, I'm ready for the emails from the moderators, from the 
list 
> folk, from my list-elf, from whoever wants to yell at me for 
voicing 
> my opinion and telling you what was on my mind.
> 
> Michelle :)
> 
> ** I don't actually use these words ... I don't like these 
words ... 
> I don't like it when other people use these words.  The point of 
> using them was that no one is intentionally trying to hurt anyone, 
if 
> someone gets hurt or is offended, I'm pretty sure no one meant to 
do 
> it and they are quite sorry, but really, if you are going to be 
> offended by everything .....
> 
> p.s.  I think I'm more a part of REST than LOON.  Gods bless the 
big 
> picture :)
> 
> p.p.s.  Yeah, I know you all hate me now.  Well, maybe not hate, 
but 
> you sure don't like me.  I'm ok with that, I still respect you 
all. :)