This will probably get me kicked off the list, but .....

[rainy_lilac at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 23522

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "M. Barnett" <fyregirl at c...> wrote:
> I've been musing over the "lets-all-be-nice-to-one-another-and-
never-
> say-anything-that-could-possibly-even-remotely-offend-someone-even-
> the-littlest-tiniest-bit" thing.

Uhmm.. whose words are this? Where are you getting this "even 
remotely" or "little tiniest bit"? Please have the grace to look at 
this issue in context. Nobody on this list fears disagreement or even 
controversy. We have however tactfully ended one raging debate 
because it descended into something more than a debate-- it was a 
veritable flame war.  we feel the issue has been kicked to death, and 
in the process a few participants almost kicked to death with it. 
Many of us who care about this forum feared that it was being 
endangered and that too many good people were being driven away by 
the tenor of a few individuals.


> Frankly, if this is a forum for GROWN UPS, why is it that so many 
> people lack the ability to converse in a grown up fashion about 
> things?

I think sometimes the most "grown up" thing one can do is say "It is 
time to drop the subject."


> When I asked about HP and the Bible, I was asking for an adult 
> discussion about whether or not people actually see the HP books as 
> leading children, adults, anyone into "bad" things.  (I don't see 
> Paganism as a bad thing, but that because I am a Pagan).  I was 
quite  quickly and fiercely shot down because "we had this discussion 
before 
> and it created a Holy War".

You were "shot down"? "Quickly and fiercely" even? Or was your 
proposal simply met with opposition? Are you not perhaps taking this 
a little personally? Is it not okay for people to have a different 
point of view or experience than yours?


> Well, here's the part that'll probably get me kicked off.  I am 
going 
> to say what I think.  If someone is offended by something I say, 
then 
> they are quite free to address me, by email, on the list, 
whatever.  

This is just my unimportant opinion I guess, but I am personally just 
a little tired of the "I will say whatever I please no matter how it 
affects others!"  approach to the "freedom of speech" issue. It feels 
awfully adolescent. You have never offended me, please let me make 
that clear. However I do wish though that people could sometimes 
think about what they are saying before they say it, and maybe even 
value other people's feelings a little bit more than this. 


> I think it is very important to have healthy, sometimes heated 
> discussions in our lives.  It keeps us thinking, it keeps us 
> considering other possibilities.  I understand most people think 
> perception is reality, and for the most part, it is.  But if you 
are 
> offended by the slightest little reference to religion or to gays 
or 
> to politics or by someone having a different opinion than you, then 
> really, you need to open your mind a little and realize that there 
> are so many different views on life and just because it isn't the 
> same as your view, doesn't mean it is wrong, bad, unholy, whatever.


I agree with what you are saying, and I think they are many lively 
and even heated discussions on this list. I think you are making the 
situation sound much, much worse than it is. Once again, look at the 
context. tabling this ONE topic was an extreme, uncommon, and 
exceptional step for the group to make, and it was in response to a 
rather extreme and exceptional situation.


> Ok, Yup, I'm ready for the emails from the moderators, from the 
list 
> folk, from my list-elf, from whoever wants to yell at me for 
voicing 
> my opinion and telling you what was on my mind.


Once again, why is it not okay for anyone to disagree with you? Why 
is disagreeing with you automatically "yelling" at you? And where did 
you get this idea that anyone would throw you off the list? If you 
reserve the right to say what is on your mind, don't you think you 
should at least show some respect when others decide to say what is 
on their mind as well?

Michelle, I think you have a lot to offer and I respect your point of 
view. I have to say though that it would be a lot easier for me to 
discuss this matter with you if you could give me the same credit and 
respect that you appear to expect to receive.


Sincerely,

Suzanne