reminiscing...those wonderful Abanes days

[koinonia02 at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 23543

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Steve Vander Ark" <vderark at b...> wrote:
>You have no idea what it was like.

>But 
> sort of like when Sirius told Harry about Voldemort's Dark Time in 
> GF, you don't know what it was like and you wouldn't understand. 
I'm 
> not being condescending here. That's just the truth.
> 
> The one quality that really struck me about Abanes is that he is a 
> brilliant wordsmith. He knows how to twist words to say what he 
wants 
> them to say and he does it so well that it's almost impossible to 
> come back with any sort of reply.

I was here during the time you mention but I never said anything.  
I'm sorry I didn't speak up earlier.  I don't want to start this 
whole war over again.  However........

> The discussion offended a great 
> many people and there was a lot of anger and resentment around 
here. 

I was one of those offended.  But I wasn't offended by what Mr. 
Abanes had to say.  I was more offended by the name calling by many 
on this board.


> He had come on the pretext of honest, open, debate, but quickly 
> demonstrated that he was only interested in using his gift of words 
> to antagonize and irritate and hurt and wound and maybe even show 
> these silly, misguided Harry Potter fans what idiots they are. And 
> you know what? He was so damn annoying and twisting and impossible 
to 
> talk to reasonably that he did bring out the worst in some of our 
> number, which just proved his point, as far as he was concerned.


There were not many people who tried to talk to him reasonably.  It 
was pure name calling.  I don't believe he came on this board to 
antagonize, irritate, hurt, and wound anyone.  His book was being 
discussed and he came to join that discussion.  I don't think he 
twisted anything around.  He just gave his honest opinion. 

 
> However, he himself was one of the worst of the lot

No, he wasn't.  I'll comment on this part further down.

>but simply 
> refused to realize that and admit that he wasn't right on all 
counts. 
> Very tellingly, when Heidi clearly pointed out a flagrant 
>misquoting 
> of JKR in his book, he never responded.

I'm sure there were other comments that he didn't reply back to. How 
could he?  Whenever he did try to comment on something he was pretty 
much attacked as being a nut.  I think it was probably hard for him 
to keep up with all the attacks and what was being said.


>He was very good at keeping 
> the attention of things he thought he could win at with his 
twisting 
> words. I do not say this lightly, but as a Christian, he reminds me 
> of the Devil, coming under the banner of truth and twisting words 
to 
> pit people against each other. That is the Devil's modus operendi.


Now you see, this is one reason why we can't discuss these things.  
*Reminds me of the Devil, twisting words, pitting people against each 
other*.  Where did he twist words?  I guess we each saw things 
differently.

> 
> Now why do I say all this? You have to understand, those of you who 
> weren't part of that Dark Time, that those of us who were here then 
> DON'T WANT TO GO BACK THERE AGAIN.

I agree to an extent.  It's a shame this *war* could not have been 
continued in the OT forum.  Just about everything else is allowed 
there.

>M. Barnett said:  Frankly, if this is a form for GROWN UPS, why is 
>it that so many people lack the ability to converse in a grown up 
>fashion about things.

>When I asked about HP and the Bible, I was asking for an adult 
>discussion.............

Here are some examples of conversing in a grown up way (and you will 
also see why I don't think Mr. Abanes was the *worst of the lot*):

Hicksville, USA., Bible thumping, religious fanatcis, lock up your 
children, fanatic Christian Fundamentalists, Religious Fanatics-R us, 
dog poop, self-made celebrity (Gilderoy Lockhart, anyone), he's going 
to blow his horn all the way to the pearly gates, REAL churchianity, 
the worst kind of born-again, his particualr brand of crusading is 
irritating, hallelujah, holier-than-thou-nutcase, good luck in the 
hereafter, whatever he may perceive that to be, we won't like for you 
to be here...get bored with you, well, just because you are what you 
are, fanatic in the definitive sense of the word, such extreme views, 
extremists like Abanes, spouting their offensive views, right-wing 
extremists, spout their bigotry, people to the right are extremists 
and bigots, toss him off the list.

I could go on and on but this is what happened the last time we 
discussed the book. It was truly an ugly thing.

Also, only two people, that I know of, apologized for anything that 
was said.  One was Mr. Abanes.  

Message 17701 by Scott:

>I know we aren't supposed to continue the Richard Abanes thread but 
>in an off-list e-mail he asked me to post this.  Do not flame me!  
>These are his words and you can take them for what they are...

Richard Abanes wrote;
>"I am beginning to see that this HARRY POTTER issue is a very 
>emotionally charged subject for all parties concerned.  Moreover, 
>discussing the issue tends to very easily spill over into closely 
>related emotionally charged areas of life for people (i.e., 
>religion, Christianity, intelligence, literary taste, church 
>history, alternate forms of religious expression, personal beliefs, 
>etc.).  These only bring more emotions to the surface as responses 
>quickly degenerate into personal attacks that are probably motivated 
>by past experiences, prior wounds, and insecurities.  I INCLUDE 
>MYSELF among those affected.

>In response to your thoughtful e-mail, I extend to you and to the 
>others on the HP fan board my sincere apologies for any statements 
>that may have sounded harsh, unloving, unChristian, and/or rude.  I 
>am only human and very subject to my own sinfulness, weaknesses, 
>prejudices, and lack of communication skills.  I cannot help but 
>think that if all of us could have sat down somewhere for a little 
>pie and coffee, that everything would have gone much better.  I am 
>not perfect -- FAR  from it (ask my wife, she'll be glad to tell 
>you that).  Again, I apologize, and do hope that my actions have not 
>further soured the image many of the board readers apparently have 
>of Christianity.  Any errors I made in communication where mine 
>alone -- not Christ's.  By the way, as a result of the last few 
>days, I am contemplating not participating in online discussions of 
>this kind in the future.  Since I do not wish to increase the 
>difficulty of the situation, I would ask that you post this response 
>I have written, in the hopes that others will be more inclined to 
>read it from a fellow HP fan rather than simply ignoring it because 
>it comes from me.  I do want others to receive my apology.  Since 
>the ADMIN has ended the thread, you may have to clear on last post 
>with him/her.

It was Mr. Abanes who had the backbone to admit he made some mistakes 
and apologize.  

I write all of this to show that there are some topics that are just 
not going to get us anywhere.  This is one of them.  

M. Barnett wrote:
>Ok, Yup, I'm ready for the emails from the moderators, from the list 
>folk, from my list-elf, from whoever wants to yell at me for voicing 
>my opinion and telling you what was on my mind.

Ok, Yup, me also.  Sometimes it's just hard to keep quiet.

Koinonia