[HPforGrownups] Re: Calvinism

Aberforth's Goat Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com
Sat Aug 4 19:47:00 UTC 2001


No: HPFGUIDX 23598

Pippin wrote,

> Dumbledore doesn't seem to think so...he says that predicting the
> future is a very difficult business...so how could the Sorting Hat do
> it? One's Hogwarts house is hardly a predictor of one's fate in the
> afterlife (all four houses have their ghosts). Potterverse souls can be
> lost (to dementors), shared, possessed...can they be saved? We don't
> know. It's clear that the Potterites believe that innocent people can
> be attacked and devoured by Dementors...I think a Calvinist would have
> trouble with that.

Hmm. Interesting thoughts, those! Oddly enough, I hadn't even considered the
afterlife angle. (Even the reference to Draco howling as he slides into the
lake of fire was facetious.) I was more interested in figuring out whether
the choices they make in the here and now are caused by a sort of inner
moral polarity. Come to think of it, I'd never even considered what sort of
afterlife Jo has supplied to the Potterverse ...

[Visions arise of multiple universes trying to win over new authors: "Rock
Bottom Rates on Empty Planets! Highest Serendipity Quotient Going!
Accommodating Deities and a Grecian Style Underworld with a Whopping 0.04%
Return Rate--Perfect for YOUR Fantasy Hero! CHECK OUT OUR FEEDBACK RATINGS
ON EBAY!!!]

> What would be most satisfying to me is if it were left to the
> reader to decide. Then we could go on debating about Snape's twisted
> psyche for generations.

And yet another weird thought: What if Jo just quit writing and told us
she's so sick of our nitpicking and double guessing, we'll just have to make
up the rest ourselves? Eeck. Anyway, back to business ...

Marcus wrote,

> No, I don't think so.  Two statements of Dumbledore spring to mind.
> The birth versus what-you-become at the End of GoF.  Even more
> telling, his statement about choices versus abilities in CoS.  Before
> you can make choices, you have to have free will.  That kinda puts the
> kaboosh on Predestination.

Not so fast! The CoS passage actually has some of the most "Calvinistic"
passages in the canon. In fact, it was that passage that got me thinking
about this. Let's pull it out for exegesis:

*  "Exactly," said Dumbledore, beaming once more. "Which
*  makes you very different from Tom Riddle. It is our choices,
*  Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
*  Harry sat motionless in his chair, stunned. "If you want proof,
*  Harry, that you belong in Gryffindor, I suggest you look more
*  closely at this." [....]
*
*  "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat,
*  Harry."

So: Harry's choices *reveal* something--they peel the layers off the
onion--they show us the person he actually is. His true identity, his soul,
his platonic essence. And that person is, fundamentally, a Gryffindor. He
may not even have known it, but there's a white hat in his soul and when it
comes to a crisis, he'll wear it.

I'm not saying this is conclusive proof, but it certainly doesn't do
anything to weaken the impression that any Gryffindor has whatever it takes
to make a person be good and stay good.

Marcus wrote,

> When Sirius Black was discussing Snape's history he stated words to
> the effect that Snape hung around a group of Slytherins that almost
> all turned out to be Death Eaters.  That implies that not all
> Slytherins are evil.  If they were, the Sorting Hat would not have
> seriously considered putting Harry there, AND insist later that Harry
> would had been successful there.

Now that's a stronger argument. If we can just prove that some Slytherins
turn out to be good, the question is answered. But is not ending up a DE the
same as being good--or is it just a sign of that particular variety of
prudence Voldemort calls cowardice?

Finally,

> Besides, Slytherin holds no monopoly on narrow-minded and
> mean-spirited-ness.  Remember the problems the good-old Hufflepuffs
> gave Harry in CoS and GoF?

Weaker. Don't forget that the Huffies also apologized!And as I said before,
"elect" and "pleasant" are not necessarily synonyms, nor do they exclude an
occasional lapse. The point is that elect always return to the paths of
virtue, not that they don't trample about in a rose bed of iniquity now and
then.

Baaaaaa!

Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray)
_______________________

"Of course, I'm not entirely sure he can read, so that may not have been
bravery...."





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