Relationship between the Muggle & the Wizarding World

[cimorene21 at hotmail.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 24189

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Mindy, a.k.a. CLH" <mindyatime at j...> 
>>>>>>>> Do you mean to tell me, that the big government 
of
> England, for instance, has never noticed this huge unusual 
population?
> Isnt' there a census or something? Doesn't every citizen have to pay
> taxes or whatever? You can't just be a 'non-entity'. You exist, and 
you
> live in this world, and people are bound to notice you. They are not
> entirely invisible. The government of England would know if a 
'village'
> of such exists, and if they live mixed, then they are certainly due 
to
> pay taxes or whatever. And then again their are fire inspections and
> other government - related things you can't wiggle out of. It smacks
> extremely unrealistic and improbable that the wizarding existence is
> totally unnoticed. All it takes is one person to discover it, which 
leads
> to one magazine article describing it, which leads to one television
> special, and the secrt is out!<<<<<<<<<

I live in the US, so the particulars are probably different, but the 
general idea is the same, I think-- here's some news.  There ARE 
people that evade the system.  There ARE people that just "drop out" 
of society, and do so on a regular basis.   There are also 
quite a few categories of people that regularly "drop out", 
quite successfully:  

1.)  THE HOMELESS-- they're a HUGE population that basically, and 
sadly, goes mostly unnoticed.  The census workers can't find all of 
them, they obviously aren't on welfare, and they sure as hell don't 
pay taxes.  There are entire homeless cardboard box communities that 
are basically ignored by the rest of the world unless some asshole 
worried about property values/businessman that owns the land/etc 
reports them and it's bulldozed-- if nobody rats on them, the 
Hooverville stays up, and it's occupants are left alone.   There was a 
construction site (boarded up, of course) in the middle of New York 
city a few years back that was left alone for a year and, when the 
builders returned, was found to contain a thriving homeless/druggie 
community.  

2.)  CRAZY LIBERTARIANS/ASSORTED REBELS.  Alaska, for example, is FULL 
of people that say, "I don't wanna pay no goddamned taxes" and just 
take off to be muskrat trappers or whatever-- and the IRS sure isn't 
chasing after them up there.  There are also enclaves of Rightist 
Militia Members/Hippies in the middle of nowhere (Montana and Oregon 
being the respective hotspots) that escape notice fairly well.

So these were my examples.  Then, I realized-- (living in Los 
Angeles)-- there's another population, probably FAR more important in 
terms of being invisible-- that's also far more of a community than 
homeless people or wierdo libertarians-- ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.  Three 
are dozens of people crossing the US/Mexico border a day-- and, upon 
reaching the country (unless they're lucky and have fake papers), they 
live in the US, completely out of the jurisdiction of the government, 
hiding from the larger population in absolute plain sight.  They 
aren't citizens, so they don't pay taxes, and they don't get any 
government benifits (i.e. medicaid, welfare, etc.)  There are 
exclusively immigrant communities out in the 
California/Texas/New Mexico Badlands, some of which are raided by the 
INS-- but not all of them.  They, like witches/wizards, are hiding in 
plain sight:  how many people in America see crowds of people waiting 
huddled for the bus at 5 in the morning?  See the men swarming on 
street corners looking for work?  See the men on the sidewalks selling 
flowers and oranges?  The truth is, everone SEES them, but everyone 
looks away.  (*thinks illegal immigrants should be entitled to welfare 
and public education*)

The "dropouts", whatever their political orientation, are 
actively hiding from the system, while both the homeless and the 
illegal immigrants are invisible because people don't want to see 
them.  However, all three groups are doing-- with varying degrees of 
success-- what the wizarding community is doing, WITHOUT the aid of 
the hundreds of obfuscatory spells that are named and hinted at 
throughout HP canon.  If they can get away with it unaided, the 
wizards ought to be able to pull it off in a snap.  Also, the 
wizarding world seems to operate somewhat like Native American tribes 
do within the United States:  they have their OWN justice and law 
enforecement systems, and are to a very large degree autonomous.  I 
think that there's a sort of gentlemen's agreement between the British 
government and the wizarding one that the two groups will remain 
separate-- with shrouded communication between the higher-ups in case 
of emergency.  I also highly suspect that there's some sort of secret 
office within the British gov't that's in charge of relations with the 
Ministry of Magic-- but knowledge of what they actually DO never 
leaves the office (MIB).  I think they communicate--like Sirius 
Black's escape, for instance, or in case of any large-scale war.      
 

      



>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, the Wizards do not have electricity. but they do 
have plumbing.
> (Btw, how do they wash their laundry without wash machines?) And 
let's
> say their toilet breaks down. Do they have their 'own' plumbers, so 
that
> they don't have to call the Muggle plumbers, etc.? And when 
something
> like this DOES happen, since the Wizards are totally inept in 
anything
> Muggle-related, won't their existence suddenly be crystal clear? Say 
for
> instance, that a nosy neighbor, or a meter reader, or a survey 
taker,
> knocks on their door. Doesn't a Muggle knocking on a Wizard's door,
> notice that this house is somehow different? No electricity, no 
lights?
> How does a Wizard deal with a Muggle, when it comes to it, if he is 
so
> inept in Muggle things? Why, if there are Muggle studies in school, 
dont'
> we ever read about them? Why is Arthur so excited about 
'eklectricity' --
> don't they learn about it in Muggle studies? Do these Wizards think
> they're so smart, knowing curses and potions and charms, when they 
know
> absolutely zero about the world around them -- biology, science,
> technology, etc.?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Uhm, they have spells for ALL that shit.   Biology I think they OUGHT 
to know, but technology-- what do they need it for?   

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I dont' think it's legal to live with a 
telephone. How, can 
the
> Wizards contact an ambulance, policeman, or fireman in case of an
> emergency? Do they even HAVE an emergency squad? Or are wizards so
> magical that they can worm their way out of any emergency -- fire,
> burglary, and illness?
<<<<<<<<<<

Well, evidently they DO-- I mean, if there's a squad of wizards 
showing up at Privet Drive on call for Unauthorized Use of AMgic by 
Minors, I would assume that they've got, like, emergency services-- I 
mean, seriously!  Why on earth are you assuming they HAVEN'T got all 
this stuff?  

>>>>>>>>>About schooling -- I don't understand why such simple 
subjects such 
as
> making objects fly and flying on brooms are only taught at age 
eleven.
> what did the kids do until then? Went to regular Muggle school? 
Ginny was
> a teeny kid when Charlie was already disapparating and her father 
was
> traveling by Floo Powder. Do you mean to say that she didnt catch on 
to
> any of the spells and charms her family was using? She had to stay 
in
> chains and wait eleven years to start training to live the life her
> family lives every day?<<<<<<<<<<

As opposed to "muggle" teenagers having to wait, say, sixteen years to 
get their drivers' licenses, which is TOTALLY different, right?  >;} 


>>>>>>> What if Ginny Weasley went to buy a new dress
> robe, and couldn't decide which color. She can't owl her mother and 
wait
> two days in the store for an answer! Why dont they have cell phones 
or
> public phones or something?

....

Additionally, I don't know how the Muggle kids survive without the
> electronic pastimes out kids can't be without. No TV. No movies. No
> computers. No electronic games. No Nintendo. It is highly 
unrealistic to
> expect all of the Wizarding kiddies to sit and read or play card 
games
> all day. What a highly boring life. Why would a child want to have 
such a
> life when there is such an exciting electronic life out there?
<<<<<<<<<<

Actually, this bothers me not because you're being silly and assuming 
that the only spells in the wizarding world are the ones we've seen, 
but because you're seriously thinking with a really narrow and very 
priveligedupper/middle class viewpoint-- Poverty?  What's that?  I 
mean, I do hope you realize that there are a hell of a lot of people 
in the REAL world that don't have cell phones, are earning minimum 
wage or below and don't have money for pay phones-- some, I'll go far 
enough to say, that don't have phones PERIOD-- that just DON'T HAVE 
THE MONEY for video games and the internet and all that electronica 
shit that you can't fathom life for wizard kids without-- gah.   ;P