Eye Roll

[Indigo]

No: HPFGUIDX 24754

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Alexandra Y. Kwan" <litalex at y...> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> --- Indigo <indigo at i...> wrote:
> > The Evil Overlord list was meant as a joke, and IMO
> > shouldn't be 
> > taken so seriously.
> 
> Just because it was meant as a joke doesn't mean it
> doesn't give some good advice.  I think every villain
> who plans to take over the world should be forced to
> read through it, memorize it, and *follow* the
> instruction given.
> 
> And...surely you don't think I took it seriously?

Not as such, but I was seeing so many references to it, it looked 
like people were giving it a bit more credit than was perhaps 
warranted. 
> 
> > It was in character for Voldemort [Wormtail, et al]
> > to give the long 
> > speeches.  It was appropriate.
> 
> It's also extremely cliched and while JKR, like other
> excellent writers, had taken cliches and given them
> new and fabulous twists, she failed in this case,
> imho.

Fair enough. 

I've always believed that cliches become such because they started 
out with some modicum of truth and got blown out of proportion from 
there.
> 
> > Voldemort's a megalomaniac. 
> 
> I know what it means, and even if I don't, there are
> quite a number of good, online dictionaries.

No offense intended.  I just find that it helps stave off 
misunderstandings to make myself as clear as humanly possible the 
first time around. 
> 
> > It's perfectly in character for a megalomaniac to
> > explain his grand 
> > scheme to the hero because in the megalomaniac's
> > mind, the hero is 
> > defeated, powerless, and has no way whatsoever to
> > make any sort of 
> > comeback.  
> 
> Probably, but it's also extremely boring for a reader
> who had read all of the other books carefully. 
> Exposition we do not need.
> 
Except JKR writes her books so that you can start with any one and 
get enough recapping to get you up to speed.

She's not the only author who does it, either. Piers Anthony does 
it,  Steven King,  Brian Lumley. It's one of the "occupational 
hazards". 

> > And in Voldie's view? He's surrounded by his Death
> > Eaters. Lily 
> > Potter's dead so she can't protect Harry twice.
> 
> That bit I've always been okay with; a bit like a cat
> and mouse game, I think.
> 
> > [snip Wormtail]
> 
> He's always been a stupid, selfish, despicable bit
> that I don't care to contemplate.  His greatest
> moment, as Sirius or Lupin had said, must've been
> betraying the Potters.
> 

I agree wholeheartedly. 

> I like villain with a grand scheme, without being
> grandiose.
> 
> > That's what makes villains villainous. They're
> > flawed.
> 
> No, that's what makes villains caricatures.  Of course
> they're somewhat flawed; that's the nature of being
> human.  But flawed doesn't necessarily mean having
> mental disorders and/or insane.  

Well, there are degrees of flaws and the level at which they change 
from personality quirks or traits to actual insanity, IMHO. 

I like them sane,
> brilliant, and even gorgeous.  I like them lounging
> back and watching with a cold smile while someone else
> torture the hero with maniacal laughter.
>
My problem with a sane villain is  "why is he doing this if he's 
sane? The insane have lost their way, and thus their grasp of 
concepts like right and wrong, good and evil -- or at least have 
dramatically skewed views on same." If a villain is sane and knows 
the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and chooses 
evil, that's still a major flaw, to my mind. 
 
> I might be able to accept that being dead/undead
> warped Voldemort's mind and made him the way he is
> right now, but if you tell me that how he was at his
> height of power and still have all those followers,
> I'm going to laugh you out of the room.

I imagine at the height of his power he was probably powerful and 
charismatic, given that he had so many followers.  Some of them were 
quite likely Pettigrew-class sycophants.  But I doubt Lucius Malfoy 
would throw his lot in with the big V out of sheer sycophancy. I'm 
certain Lucius believed there was a prize to be had, and that if he 
stuck with Voldemort he'd get a slice of the pie. 
> 
> Anyway, I think we should keep an eye on Lucius
> Malfoy.  With Voldemort being the way he is, Lucius
> just might be able to manipulate the hell out of
> Voldemort.  Probably get Voldemort to defeat the world
> *and then* give the guy a stab to his back and control
> the world himself.  Or subtly using Voldemort as a
> puppet (so subtly that Voldemort won't realize it, of
> course).  Now, *that* would be a villain.
> 
Interesting idea.  I would not be adverse to seeing it, but I don't 
get the feeling that's where JKR is going with this.  I also think 
it'd be jarring for the younger readers to go from the 
Harry/Voldemort tension to Harry/Lucius.  But anything's possible.

We'll have to wait and see.