Lily/Snape, racism/Draco/Slytherins/Quirrell

[Koinonia2 at hotmail.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 25268

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Tabouli" <tabouli at u...> wrote:
> Amy Z:
> 
> > Koinonia, if you found a Snape Didn't Give a Fig About Lily club 
(with a 
> clever acronym of course), I'll pay my 2 Sickles and join up.
> 
> Hah!  I think Amanda and I will just have to set up a Rival Club 
>then and throw tomatoes at you... (the Everything Makes Sense if 
>Snape Loved Lily Society?).  And hey, it's *not* because I'm 
>particularly into the concept of having a bit of Romance in the 
>plot: I'm generally bobbing about on a non-committal little lifeboat 
>checking out the major ships without comment.  It's just that, as 
>those long lists of plot devices we don't want to see again showed, 
>I think this is one obvious and valid device she *hasn't* used which 
>explains Snape's peculiar behaviour so well... frankly, I think yet 
>another unregistered Animagus would be far more excruiciating.


Actually, *Snape Didn't Give a Fig About Lily* sounds pretty good.  
I'm joining the club immediately!

I don't mind a bit of romance in the book and I agree that JKR hasn't 
used this plot device before.  I do believe that Snape's behavior can 
be linked to love.  I'm going to stand by my belief that it was 
Snape/Black/some other.  This makes me think of when Snape was 
reading Rita Skeeter's article to the class and he says, "Well, I 
think I had better separate the three of you, so you can keep your 
minds on your potions rather that on your tangled love lives." This 
is coming from someone who knows about tangled love lives, IMO, and 
it wasn't Snape/James/Lily.  I just can't comment on this any 
longer....I told 'ya' I get uptight about this theory :>)   


Amy Z wrote (ages ago in message 22641):

>Just because certain members of this list Who Must Not Be Name would 
>like to see Snape au naturel....;-)

Are we starting another club?  What shall we name this one? 

Concerning Draco: 

Tillrules wrote in message 25176:
>True enough, but there are certain things which are essentially 
>unchangeable.  Racism, in my view is one of them. To me, his 
>attempts to get Hagrid fired, which he knows would be a crushing 
>blow to a character that has very little life outside Hogwarts, does 
>render him irredeemable.
 
Tabouli wrote:
> OT though this is, I can't let this pass.  I wrote an entire thesis 
>on this topic and run workshops which aim to do it.  Yes, you *can* 
>change racism.

Tillrules wrote:  
>We do not know that he was the type of child Draco is, kind of the 
>kid who drowns puppies & cats to see them squirm.

Rita wrote:
>Draco doesn't drown kittens and puppies to see them squirm, he does 
>it to try to prove to his father that he isn't soft.

Of course racism is changeable.  So do we look at Draco and the 
Slytherins and just call them racist?  Are they the only racist 
people in the wizarding world? Is there no hope for them?  If that is 
the case then it won't be much of a story.  I don't want to see all 
those in Slytherin end up as evil and all the other grand houses end 
up on the good side.   In a way, Harry and others (including Hagrid) 
are not willing to give *any* of the Slytherins a chance.  (True, 
most of the Slytherins have not been great examples of goodness). 
What would you call that attitude?

I don't regard Draco as pure evil.  I have yet to see any examples of 
that.  Trying to get Hagrid fired doesn't make Draco totally evil.  
How do we know that Lucius wasn't telling Draco what to do?  Lucius 
saw an opportunity to get Hagrid gone and he ran with it.  I tend to 
think of Draco as someone who does many of the things he does (as 
Rita said) to try to prove to his father that he isn't soft. I don't 
see Draco as particulary strong (standing on his own) yet.  He 
doesn't seem to like one on one confrontations.  He seems to be full 
of hot air most of the time. I tend to lean toward the idea that he 
has to present himself as a muggle/Hermione/Harry-hating person. Will 
Draco fight on the side of good?  I don't know.  I am willing to give 
him a chance.  He is, at some point, going to turn to Snape for help 
IMHO. It will be up to Draco to decide what to do afterwards.  Snape, 
who seems to have been raised in the Dark Arts, turned to Dumbledore 
and got a second chance.  Let's hope Draco, who was raised by a DE, 
will not chose the same path as dear dad.
         
Little Alex wrote:
> Talking about that, are there no Muggle-born or 'half-blood' 
>currently in Slytherin?  I assume they'd take offense to Draco 
>continually mouthing them off if there are...

Tabouli wrote: 
> You have to wonder whether there are *enough* purebloods to fill 
>Slytherin: isn't there a growing shortage?

For some reason I think Snape is a 'half-blood'.  I don't know why.  
There's nothing in canon to back me up.  Just a suspicion.

pbnesbit wrote:
>Question:  Do you think Quirrell was a good teacher until he took a 
>year off?

Kelly wrote:
>We don't know that Quirrell ever taught before SS/PS.

PoS  'Oh, yeah.  Poor bloke.  Brilliant mind.  He was fine while he 
was studyin' outta books but then he took a year off ter get some 
first-hand experience...They say he met vampires in the Black Forest 
and there was a nasty bit o'trouble with a hag - never been the same 
since.  Scared of the students, scared of his own subject....'

I could see where one could get the idea Quirrell was a teacher who 
took some time off to get some first hand-experience.  I think that 
was one reason Snape was so suspicious of Quirrell.  They had 
probably worked together before and then Quirrell shows up with that 
silly turban on his head and acting strangely. 

Koinonia