fanfiction/speculation (more)

[Hillman, Lee]

No: HPFGUIDX 31317

Liquidfire wrote:
> You have a point in stating that bit about perspective and focus.
However,
> you fail to note that when you make a fanfic, you interweave many theories
> together to form a story.  In this e-group, every post has a specific
> topic.  Now I must admit, I'm rather stunned that I get like 70+ e-mails a
> day from this group (more on weekends).  I simply delete topics I don't
> feel like reading and read what I want to read.  I'm focused that way.
> 

Good point. Of course, there are those of us who get the digest and thus we
skim nearly every topic.... But yes. Someone made a point like this to me in
a private email on this topic as well. There seems to be a point of
complexity where a number of theories combined make a fanfic. If I have an
isolated thought, for ex., about the Night Bus, I doubt I'd be compelled to
write a fanfic about it just to flesh out the idea. But combine all my
theories/thoughts about Snape....backstory, here I come.

Liquidfire again:
> Yes, I speculate a lot about Harry Potter in my head (I blame JK Rowlings
> for this, if she'd just release Book 5 NOW!).  With all the fodder I'm
> getting, it's rather hard not to.  I guess, in a way, I'm doing a lot of
> fanfiction in my head.  But I still rather keep it in my head.  Why?  For
> me at least, writing down something (in the form of fanfic) gives it a
> sense of permanence.  I can't have that.  My speculations have to remain
> speculations.  I'd rather not 'strongly' believe one school of thought
over
> another.  If I do fanfiction, I might believe in it so much that I might
> actually prefer it to the real thing.  Again, that's just me.
> 

So you're saying then that for you, the act of writing it down (excluding
emailing the list for discussion) is giving it "permanence" and "weight?"
That's interesting. 

How about other people? Do you keep timelines? Notes on the Ministry or
other large headings such as Wizarding Education or Quidditch Stuff? Or is
it the mutability of *not* archiving your thoughts that appeals to you?


And Cindy said:
> As a non-fanfic reader/writer, I find this to be a very interesting 
> question.  To tell you the truth, I didn't have any real 
> understanding of what fanfic writers are trying to do before you 
> spelled it out a bit.  Now that you mention it, it does make sense 
> that writing a fanfic is similar to spinning out an elaborate theory 
> on this board, but that you are walking the characters through the 
> theory.
> 

Well, I think it's important to note that that's one reason among many to
write fanfic. And here we are talking about canon-based fanfic as opposed to
more removed "What if" plots that abound in the genre. 

Cindy goes on: 
> But fanfic seems to go one step further -- the writer is allowed to 
> start with canon, but then change *huge* things.  It is harder, I 
> think, to evaluate whether this or that character would do this or 
> that in a fanfic because I see it as an extra step removed from 
> canon.  Facts and characters have been added, so how could one even 
> really conclude whether the fanfic is true to canon?  
> 

Okay, Cindy, hold on there. I think you're making some assumptions that
aren't necessarily universal. Remember, I'm talking about fanfic that sticks
close by canon rather than shooting off of it into the realm of "What
if....?" By *huge,* what exactly do you mean? Every author is different, but
I can name a number of fics that *in no way* conflict with established canon
fact. I believe that in fanfic there has to be an expectation that the
authors remain *reasonably confident* that their ideas and characterizations
match canon. 

Now, again, that in and of itself is flawed, you're right. For one thing, we
only know their character development as far as book IV. 

For example--and I'm trying to stay far away from the shipping debates
here--we've talked about Neville on this list. Heretofore Neville has been a
bullied, forgetful, timid, often incompetent young man. GoF establishes some
of his backstory and makes his character that much more sympathetic. 

But on this list, folks have speculated that perhaps Neville is due for a
break. I myself believe that we might see a new Neville next year: one who
has hit a growth spurt and is much more confident in himself now that he's
no longer nearly as clumsy, or one who suddenly became a cutie patootie over
the course of a couple months--it happens with teens all the time.

Now, the question is, is it out of character for Neville to come back from
summer hol's looking like a page out of GQ? Yes--and no. It *is*
inconsistent with the Neville we have come to know and love. However,
there's no indication that it *won't* happen--as long as the author is
careful to make sure that Neville isn't suddenly perfect. That is, an author
may choose to fix Neville's physical clumsiness, but is he still afraid of
Snape? Is he still a bit absent-minded? Does his grandmother still domineer
him and have to send all the things he forgot? Does he still have unresolved
issues with his parents in St. Mungo's? Is this still a Neville we can
recognise?

Now, in this case, in my fic, I chose to hint that Neville might be growing
up, but not really deal with it. For one thing, I didn't have time and still
address the other burning issues that were more central to my plot. But for
another, I didn't want to stray too far from canon. Likewise, my Harry,
Hermione, and Ron are all, IMO, pretty true to character, but those
characters are more-or-less frozen in GoF mode, and not noticably more
mature all of a sudden. There's some development, but I tried to keep it
subtle and more a backdrop of the action than the point of the story. And I
did that so that I could read dialogue I'd written, compare it to dialogue
in the books, and see if it had the same feel. If it did, and if my editors
concurred, then I was *reasonably confident* that I was staying in
character.

Again, the source upon which all character decisions must rest--whether in
speculation or fanfic--is the canon. It should be the author's first and
best judge of whether someone would or wouldn't do, or whether something
would or wouldn't happen. So I don't see it all that much further
removed--not if you're taking your time and making sure you have as many
facts straight as possible.

It should also be noted that sometimes, even the canon is not definitive
about a character's motivations. The Ship discussion Penny just diverted is
a good example--it's not a question of being in accordance with canon or
not, it's that canon can be read more than one way.


Cindy: 
> I have no idea what position I took on a 
> theory even last month.  To me, the fun is in simply turning the 
> ideas over and over.  
> 

See, that would drive me crazy. I have to know what I thought then and even
if it's different from what I think now, I have to be able to see what made
me change. I can't do that without somehow getting it down, even if it's in
the archives of this list. That way I can at least look it up again and say,
"Now, what did I say?"

I've changed my opinions on certain issues because of discussion on this
list. I've also changed my mind or at least allowed the possibility of some
other perspective due to reading fanfic. Both have their merits and their
disadvantages. I've never taken on a "pet theory" that I didn't believe to
be logical and well within the boundaries that the canon has established.
And in a lot of cases, my reaction is, "Well, yeah, you *could* but it
probably won't happen." Or even, "Who would want to?"

And I also think it's important to bear in mind something Dave said, I
believe on OT-chatter: that he has never yet read a work of fanfiction that
he could not distinguish from Rowling, so to him (and I concur), the act of
reading fanfic doesn't confuse canon. The act of going to see the movie
didn't confuse me, either--I still know what was in the book. I don't
necessarily "see" the actors in my mind when I visualize the characters
(though in most cases, they looked so right there's no reason not to). But
that's a personal call, and in no way reflects poorly on people who only
want to interpret canon (or who know themselves well enough to make that
call). Like I said, the reasons fans give for not reading/writing fanfic are
understandable and I respect their right to decide for themselves.

I also agree with Dave when he says we need both kinds of fans. I'm not
trying to argue who is right or whether one method is better than the
other--I'm just trying to get a handle on how other people, especially
non-fanfic writers, approach canon and its attendant hypothetical
resolutions. 

Cindy:
> The most entertaining questions for me are 
> those that involve reverse engineering JKR's wizarding world and 
> figuring what she has written as the backstory for the characters and 
> other plot elements.  A lot of that is backward looking ("What's the 
> difference between a concoction and a potion?").  I think I spend 
> less energy figuring out how Snape would act if such-and-such 
> happened, although I'm always willing to take a shot at it.  :-)

Oh, I do a lot of reverse engineering, too, and like I said, the type of
fanfic I'm attempting to address here is *not* the alternate reality,
what-if type plots (What if Harry got sorted into Slytherin? What if Snape
had to adopt him? What if Sirius had been Kissed? etc.), or cross-overs, or
anything that forces a further move away from canon. I'm talking about fics
that explore, either backward or forward, those same kinds of issues we
discuss here, trying to extrapolate and build upon Rowling's evidence in
order to create a more complete world.

That's what I meant by that question of vanishing points and horizons, btw.
At some point, one has to define the parameters of speculation. "This is
probably only the case in Britain," is an example of defining the
parameters. "The laws might have changed at some point in the past," is
another.

> Sure, it would be fun to see some elaborate theory we developed on 
> the board become a part of a subsequent book.  But I actually like 
> approaching the Potterverse issue-by-issue.  Maybe that doesn't make 
> sense, but it is much more manageable for me.
> 

It *is* more manageable. And like I said, fanfic is not always necessary to
puzzle something out. But sometimes the process of limiting one's theory to
a certain segment of society or a certain period of history can mislead us
into oversimplifying as well. 

I'll go back to my first example: werewolves. I asked a ton of broad,
far-reaching questions about how werewolves come about, how they are
regulated, and the physical and human-imposed laws that govern the
creatures. I said that if I didn't want to write a Remus-fic, but just
wanted to set down for myself the interrelationships of werewolves with the
rest of (British) wizarding society, I could simply start writing down laws
I think make sense to have.

OTOH, if I'm *not* writing a Remus-fic, does it matter? Do I care that
werewolves in x stage are treated as beasts and werewolves at y stage are
beings? 

The answer I seem to be hearing from non-fanfic writers is that while you
still think about things like that, and maybe even get elabourate in your
theories, you don't put your thoughts together in a single place. You let
them roll around in your heads and once in a while something bubbles to the
surface. What about cross-referencing? Is it just not important? Is it
flavour of the month? If you don't have to worry about making sure the
"facts" are internally consistent, does it mean that you maintain a broader
outlook, not getting into minute details (this group? Get into details?
Nah....)?

Please understand I'm not accusing or trying to prove anything here. I'm
just curious. My mind doesn't work that way, and when I get a brainstorm,
chances are, I've either written it down somewhere or incorporated it
someway into something I'm writing (or will write, or have written). Not
*every single* bit of Potterica, but near enough. So I'm truly intrigued by
what others feel is important enough to keep in record, so that they can
refer back to it later if necessary. I'm also really interested in how
people choose to integrate their picture of the Potterverse into a cohesive
unit with internal structure and overarching boundaries.

Gwen