OOTP

[ftah3]

No: HPFGUIDX 31782

Joshua Dyal wrote:
>I could 
> build 
> > a very plausible case for it being the new name of the Death 
> Eaters, 
> > or some other elite group of Voldemorts, even though it's 
generally 
> > believed that it is rather an order of Dumbledore's.  Fact of the 
> > matter is, it's all speculation as we don't know anything at all 
> > about it except that it's the title of the next book.
> > 
> > Joshua Dyal
> 

Then Heather wrote:
>  Given my current mad passion for alchemical research, I'm heeling 
to 
> this interpretation myself these days. The Phoenix is one of the 
> primary (possibly the most eminent) alchemical symbols for 
> immortality, perfection, and power -- those are also Voldemort's 
holy 
> trinity of obsessive goals. 

But how is the phoenix characterized in HP?  Fawkes would only come 
to one who professed loyalty to Dumbledore ~ i.e., the virtue of 
loyalty (*real* loyalty, not the fake kind inspired by fear) being 
important in relation to the phoenix.  Also, the description of the 
phoenix pre-death/rebirth is of a scrawny, uninspiring, but (I 
thought) not *frightening* figure ~ more like, say, Harry in his 
current, unascended-to-greatness state, than Voldemort.

Granted that Voldemort has done the death-rebirth things, and would 
probably liken himself to the phoenix.  However, the phoenix, beyond 
simple death-rebirth (alchemical) use/symbolism may already have a 
place in the HP mythic universe as related to Good.  Which, imho, 
would preclude Voldemort using the bird as a figurehead.

On the other hand, the snake is also of the death-rebirth order 
(i.e., sheds it's skin, is reborn in new skin).  This aligns more 
with Voldy, in symbolic nature, as well as in the fact that he 
suckled from a snake to stay alive.

Soooo...short version:  I'm still thinking that OotP will refer to 
the Good Guys somehow.

Heather again:
>  Quick question for canon researchers: given that Voldemort was 
> pretty much on-site during a whole school year of teaching Harry 
> DADA, do we have any reason to doubt he knows that Harry's Fawkes-
> butt wand is so uniquely similar to his own Fawkes-butt wand?

Well, he wasn't exactly on-site.  At least, I never got the 
impression that he had a particularly tight reign on/close 
interactive relationship with Crouch/Moody.  In fact, I think it 
would have been dangerous for such to occur.  Or possibly I missed 
the parts in the book which implied that Voldy/Crouch were in close 
communication?  Otherwise, I'd say that Voldy has really no way of 
knowing of the shared phoenix cores *that* way.  But mightn't he know 
simply due to the way the wands reacted to each other?  I *thought* 
Dumbledore(?) said that such a thing only happened between wands made 
of the same cores...?

Mahoney