Neville---Some Unexamined Assumptions

[cindysphynx]

No: HPFGUIDX 31883

Eric wrote:


> As far as Neville being too young for the Lestranges to put him 
under a
> memory charm, there are two unexamined assumptions here.
> 
> One is that the Lestranges and Barty Crouch Junior would _not_ 
have, forex,
> tortured little Neville in an attempt to make his parents talk.  
This
> postulates a level of benevolence on their part that, frankly, I do 
not see.
> If there's _anything at all_ beyond the range of a Death Eater 
desperate to
> find Lord Voldemort, I don't know or _want_ to know what it is.

I sure hope we don't have to contemplate this idea for very long, 
because it is quite chilling.  Did the DEs torture Neville to make 
his parents talk?  Yikes, I think not and hope not.  If they had 
really tortured Neville, why would they stop before they drove 
Neville insane?  Also, if the DEs tortured Neville first and his 
parents didn't talk, then the DEs could have been confident that the 
parents really didn't know Voldemort's whereabouts because there 
aren't many parents who would withhold information if their child 
were being tortured.  

Also, we might have to assume some sort of code of honor even among 
the most evil DEs like Mrs. Lestrange.  After all, even Voldemort 
allows Harry a fair duel in the graveyard.  

In any event, assuming Neville received a mini-Cruciatus curse that 
night, I'm not sure it bears on the Neville Memory Charm debate 
either way.  Either Neville got a memory charm to make him forget 
everything he witnessed (including his own pain) or he got a reverse 
memory charm to make him relive everything (including his own pain).  

Eric again:
> 
> The second is that Neville had to have been very young when the DEs 
arrived.
> What if he was, say, five or six or so?  <snip>  All we know AFAIR 
is that the attack on
> the Longbottoms came when Voldemort had been gone for a while and 
people
> were beginning to breathe easier again---hence the rage against the
> Lestranges and BCJr.
> 

Here's a quick rundown on the canon evidence that the Lestranges were 
apprehended soon after Voldemort fell, not years later:

In Padfoot Returns, Sirius tells us about the circumstances under 
which Barty Crouch Jr. is brought to Azkaban and everything going on 
at the time.  He says:

"When Voldemort disappeared, it looked like only a matter of time 
until Crouch got the top job.  But then something rather unfortunate 
happened. <snip> Crouch's own son was caught with a group of Death 
Eaters who'd managed to talk their way out of Azkaban.  Apparently 
they were trying to find Voldemort and return him to power.  <snip> 
I saw the Dementors bringing him in. <snip> He can't have been more 
than nineteen."

The Lexicon list Barty Crouch Jr.'s birthday as 1962.  So if he is 
19 when he goes to Azkaban, that would be 1981 -- making Neville 
around 1 when the Longbottoms are tortured.

Also, I think JKR writes the dialogue for Sirius expressly to 
support this timeline.  When a person estimates someone's age, they 
probably wouldn't use an expression like "He can't have been more 
than 19." Most people would pick a round number, like 20, or they'd 
say "19 or 20".  The use of 19 is probably to make the timeline work 
perfectly.

Amy Z once pointed out that Sirius was at school with Crouch Jr., a 
few years ahead of him.  So Sirius might be able to guess not only 
based on someone's appearance but also just remembering Crouch Jr. 
from their Hogwarts days.

Cindy