MICE - Sadness in LoTR, HP - Persecuted Harry

[Amy Z]

No: HPFGUIDX 32276

Elizabeth wrote:

>For LotR, it was Milieu = yes, Idea = no, Character = not much, Event = Oh 
>yeah.

>For HP, it was Mileau = slightly, Idea = yes, Character = you betcha, Event 
>=
>better believe it!

>Looking at the two series this way, it's easier to see how they aren't 
>really
>comparable. They set out to do completely different things, in all except 
>the
>Event category. And they deliver on their promises, but they each make very
>different promises.

Thanks, Elizabeth--this was a really neat way to think about the two 
stories.  And I love both and will happily compare them, but not to the 
detriment of either.

I would give Milieu more weight in HP.  For me, one of the major attractions 
of the books is the wizarding world itself, and as much as I joke about 
Lupin, the "character" I'm really most in love with is Hogwarts.

I am pondering the question of the sadness in HP and LoTR.  There are 
different kinds of sadness.  LoTR is terribly sad in the way it portrays the 
ending of an era (I have a friend who hates The Last Battle for this 
reason), but it goes very light indeed on the killing of beloved characters. 
  Nine set out and only one dies--not a bad record for a heroic quest.  The 
death that touched me the most, by far, was Gollum's.  (This is ignoring the 
fact that those who go to the Grey Havens do die in a sense, but I think 
JRRT ignores it; he gives them a nice heaven to live in forever and ever.)  
HP, on the other hand, is going to kill people we really love, of that I'm 
certain.  However, even as it gets grimmer, it doesn't have that pervasive 
sense of an end of something.  I very much doubt the wizarding world will 
come to an end with Book 7.

Like Cindy, I like reading tragic stories--though I wouldn't characterize 
LoTR as tragic, nor think HP will be--so I am not the best person to ask.  I 
like PoA best largely because it's so angsty, and I like the fact that the 
series is getting darker.  Watching the six o'clock news is depressing; 
watching people with tremendous courage and integrity save our world from 
the worst devastations seen on the six o'clock news is ultimately heartening 
and inspiring, if sad.  Frodo's is not meaningless suffering; it is the 
sacrifice made by a hero, and unlike many epic heroes, he at least gets a 
reward of eternal life.  Harry will suffer and pay dearly for his triumph 
(and I confess that I hope this proves true), but I think the end will be 
hopeful.

Jenny's Raul said:

>"Stop!  I can't listen to this anymore."  He went on to
>explain that he feels that Harry is persecuted by the Dursleys,
>Voldemort...  He says that he doesn't see any happiness on Harry's
>part.

Maybe he should hear the line where Harry thinks about running away before 
the first task but realizes he'd rather be at Hogwarts facing a dragon than 
back home.  Or maybe this would just depress him even more, that poor Harry 
has *no* haven.  But to me it says that he loves Hogwarts and the wizarding 
world so much that he'd rather live dangerously there than live a safe 
Muggle life, *even if life were pleasant at the Dursleys*.  I wouldn't say 
he is persecuted by Voldemort; Harry is a worthy opponent (as above, a hero 
along epic lines), not a child being tormented.

When I meet HP characters in my daydreams (wipe that look off your face, 
they're very chaste), I have a conversation in which I am totally thrilled 
to learn that the world of the books is real, and that always brings the 
fantasy up short and makes me think, if I could wish for these books to be 
history instead of fiction, would I?  It's a scary world; Voldemort, if he'd 
drop the Evil Overlord act and start using his noodle, would be more 
terrifying than all the Muggle tyrants I can think of rolled into one.  
Would I really want him to be real just so that I could know that Diagon 
Alley was real also?  (Answer:  a heartless YES.)

Amy Z

--------------------------------------------------------
"I'm =not= going to be murdered," Harry said out loud.
"That's the spirit, dear," said his mirror sleepily.
                       -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban
--------------------------------------------------------

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