Student Numbers

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 13079

Hi --

Steve Vander Ark wrote:

> That would be me. (basking in the fact that the listmom said I
> made "a very good point," and she's a lawyer too, and knows a good
> point when she sees one)

Oh, Steve -- you make *lots* of very good points!  <g>

Naama wrote:

> I've just read the sentence in question, and I must say it does not
> seem as though its said from Harry's POV.
>
No, it's not clear that it's from Harry's POV.  It could well be the
narrator -- I'll concede that.

> To me it reads like a simple statement of fact, albeit imprecise. But what is the problem
> with imprecision in this context? The reader does not need to know
> whether there are a 100, 102 or 97 tables. So "about 100" is quite
> adequete here.
>
Well, of course it would be silly to say that there were 97 tables.
But, why not say there *were* 100 tables (I'm sure JKR didn't have it
worked out that there needed to be 97 tables with 11 seats each to seat
every guest she imagined at the Ball).  Why include the "about"?  If it
*is* the narrator stating that fact, why qualify the reference?  The
narrator *knows* how many tables there are, right?  I just don't think
the "about" qualifier makes it irrefutable that there were in fact 100
tables.

> As to the second 'about' ("seating about a dozen"), the same argument can hold for it too. However, it may have a
> slightly meaning - it may mean that there are actually different
> numbers of people sitting at the tables (ten at one table, thirteen
> at another and so on).
>
This is a good point.  But, then, it means one cannot simply multiply 12
X 100 to arrive at roughly the number of attendees at the Yule Ball.

Let's assume there *are* about 1200 attendees at the Ball and that there
*are* 1000 students at Hogwarts.  1000 students at Hogwarts -- roughly
equal class sizes (even though we know this is unlikely given that there
are 20 Gryffindor/Slytherins in Harry's year and 20
Gryffindor/Hufflepuffs in Harry's year).  Roughly equal class sizes for
the sake of argument though would be 142 students in each year.

The Yule Ball is open to 4th - 7th year students.  That yields 568
students.  Let's say 10% of them invited a younger student as a date.
That gives you 57 more Hogwarts students at the Ball.  This all, of
course, assumes 100% attendance of the 4th - 7th years.  You're up to
625 attendees.

There are about a dozen BeauxBatons students and I assume roughly the
same number of Durmstrang students.

So, the *students* in attendance could only be about 650.  Yes?  700
tops based on these assumptions, wouldn't you think?

Staff and MoM reps -- From what we know this could not yield 500 people
could it?  So far, the people who argue for the 1000 students at
Hogwarts figure seem to have been discounting the fact that there could
be MoM types, alumni, parents, etc. in attendance.

> There is a slight hint that besides the guests at the top table and
> the staff at the staff tables all the rest are studnets:
> "When all the food had been consumed, Dumbledore stood up and asked
> the students to do the same."
> Hmm... not conclusive, but it doesn't seem as thought a large part of
> the audience weren't students. IMO, at least.
>

So -- who were the other 500+ guests to reach the 1200 figure? <she asks
with a twinkle in her eye>

I think that the 1200 figure is grossly exaggerated.  But, then, I think
JKR was just *wrong* when she made the 1000 students reference too.  <g>

> My point was different - it was that the number of
> students at Hogwarts isn't something she could have conceivably
> skipped thinking about in years of fleshing out an imaginary world
> whose center is Hogwarts. To me that would be a slip up on a
> completely different scale than local, plot related discrepancies, no
> matter how important they are. IMHO, of course.
>
So, how do you explain the internal discrepancies about the number of
students?  I agree that she probably could not have depicted every
student in Harry's year if there are indeed roughly 142 of them.  That
wouldn't make sense at all.  But, why the 20 broomsticks & 20 earmuffs?
This strongly suggests to me that Harry's year is only about 40-50
students (50 assuming that the Ravenclaws are as much as double the rest
of the Houses in terms of number of students in Harry's year).  Hey,
maybe that's why they don't have classes with the Gryffindors.  They
need all 20 earmuffs and all 20 broomsticks.  :--)  So, would Harry's
year be *that* different in terms of class size?  I just don't buy it.

Penny




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