From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 1 00:01:48 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 31 Dec 2000 16:01:48 -0800 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please Message-ID: <20010101000148.22168.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8241 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 00:07:12 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:07:12 -0000 Subject: I (don't) Hate The Cover Art and the WB (store) In-Reply-To: <20001231224632.8701.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <92ohng+qenb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8242 Eggplant wrote "I'm I the only one who HATES the cover art, particularly the way it depicts Harry? He looks like he's never been scared or angry or sad or thoughtful in his life, in fact he looks like a grinning imbecile. I know Harry Potter and that jerk on the cover is not Harry Potter." I don't think that the American cover are all that bad, but they certainly aren't my favourites. I agree with Carole that GoF is the best cover of the American ones so far. It at least has Harry wearing robes as opposed to the red capes that he has on in the others... I also have to agree with Star and Neil. I think that the German covers make Harry et al look "trendy" or "cool". Then the British covers aren't that bad either. The rest of the covers can be found at- http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownUps- Graphics/International+Book+Covers/ (You'll have to cut and paste that.) We have quite a collection! I was at the WB store yesterday and I was looking at all the Harry stuff (and fuming that Hermione was a blue eyed blonde, but I blame Penny for pointing this out to me) and I was trying very hard not to go off into an angry tirade at the store clerk in the section. (Did you know that these artist have most likely NEVER read the books?) I resisted asking this however. As I was leaving two women passed me and I picked up on snippets of their conversation- "What is this Harry Potter?" "I dunno. He wrote some books." "Yeah I know he wrote some books but what about them?" I, trying not to laugh at their ignorant statement, was about to go up to them and tell them all about Harry (including the fact that he has never written a book) but I once again resisted. After all I wasn't sure what was worse- their not knowing about the books, or their being frightened by a stranger (me) who I'm sure they'd have taken as barking mad. Scott From amy at wintersmoon.com Mon Jan 1 00:17:32 2001 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:17:32 -0000 Subject: Class Schedule (rather long) Message-ID: <92oias+rhc4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8243 In my re-readings...(I'm on Year 2)...I've jotted down a few notes about the kids classes. In Year 1 they have the following classes: Astronomy - Wednesdays at Midnight in the astronomy tower. (Ch. 8, pg 133) Herbology - in the mornings 3 times a week in the greenhouses (Ch. 8, pg 133) History of Magic - Charms - Transfiguration - Thursday (Ch. 8, pg 135) DADA - Potions - Double class period with the Slytherins on Friday Mornings (Ch. 8, pg 135) Flying Lessons - Thursday at 3:30 In Chapter 8, pg 135, it says that Harry has Friday afternoons off. And incidently, in Chapter 9, it says that the 5th years have Charms at 3:30 on Thurdays (when Harry meets Oliver Wood) In Year 2: There schedule are a bit more detailed in CoS (and I'll try to reference it as I go): Their first day, they have Double Herbology (with the Hufflepuffs), Transfiguration, and then Lunch. After lunch, they have DADA. (Chapter 6) September 2nd in 1982 was Thursday. Chapter 7 states that they have Charms Friday morning. Also, in Chapter 13, they have Charms the afternoon of Valentines day - Valentines day is a Monday in 1983. Chapter 9 - Potions, Lunch, History of Magic on Wednesdays. Also, Ron has known about his HoM report for 10 days which would have put another HoM class on Monday. Chapter 15 - Double Potions, Double Herbology, DADA - all in a row (perhaps on Tuesday?) Chapter 16 - Transfiguration is the first class of that day (McGonagall announces that exams will begin on the 1st of June which is one week away - making this day Wednesday, May 25th.) Three days before their exams is a Sunday. Apparently, they have classes on Sunday because midmorning, Lockhart is leading them to their HoM class. Of course, if you count Wednesday (first day of exams) as one of the three days - then this would be Monday. So, where does all this leave us schedule wise? Mondays: DADA HoM Lunch? Charms Tuesday: Double Potions Double Herbology DADA Wednesday: Potions Lunch HoM Thurday: Double Herbology Transfiguration Lunch DADA Friday: Charms Ok - so what does this mean (other than I've spent WAY too much time going through these books lately)? a) WE pay much more attention to the details than JKR does (and there's nothing wrong with that - it happens all the time) b) class and teaching schedule wise - I don't think these kids have all their classes every day. They're probably more like my college classes than my high school classes. A couple of the classes they probably only have once or twice a week. I think it would be entirely possible the teaching schedules to fit. Take Herbology for instance - SS/PS states that they only have it 3 times a week. And in CoS it only seems to be on scheduled for Tuesdays and Thursdays. As they get older and decide what they want to "specialize" in, they probably take fewer hours of the core classes. Amy From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Jan 1 00:25:01 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 18:25:01 -0600 Subject: CoverArt & WB Stuff References: <92ohng+qenb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A4FCE5D.B5E6084F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8244 Hi -- Scott wrote: > Eggplant wrote > "I'm I the only one who HATES the cover art, particularly the way it > depicts Harry? He looks like he's never been scared or angry or sad > or thoughtful in his life, in fact he looks like a grinning imbecile. > I know Harry Potter and that jerk on the cover is not Harry Potter." > > I don't think that the American cover are all that bad, but they > certainly aren't my favourites. I agree with Carole that GoF is the > best cover of the American ones so far. It at least has Harry wearing > robes as opposed to the red capes that he has on in the others... I agree with Eggplant. I really dislike the American coverart for the most part, and I personally think that GoF is the worst. Just my 2 galleons. I don't like the German covers at *all* either. Harry looks ... weird. I like the Danish & Swedish covers the best so far. The British covers are better than the US & German but perhaps not quite as nice as the Danish & Swedish in my judgment. The Italian covers get the award for being the least relevant (or most puzzling). The Icelandic covers are the worst (again IMO). > I was at the WB store yesterday and I was looking at all the Harry > stuff (and fuming that Hermione was a blue eyed blonde, but I blame > Penny for pointing this out to me) and I was trying very hard not to > go off into an angry tirade at the store clerk in the section. (Did > you know that these artist have most likely NEVER read the books?) I > resisted asking this however. Sorry 'bout that Scott! In some of the merchandise, she does have arguably light brown hair (rather than blonde), but she does always have blue eyes. I'm quite happy with my glass Hermione ornament. It's clearly not blonde but not exactly "brown" hair either. It is "bushy" (or what I think of as bushy anyway -- which is *not* tight curly ringlets that some picture). LOL at the conversation that you overheard! I think you should have approached them. Happy New Year everyone! (I guess it's already there in the UK, eh?). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 1 00:55:26 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 00:55:26 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cover Art/UK 'adult' GoF? References: <20001231225709.10544.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <01d501c0738d$9cd71c20$7b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8245 Star wrote (in response to my post about the UK covers) <<<>>> I think the US publisher, Scholastic, has only released one set of covers - those you have seen. It hasn't released any adult-oriented covers (and that's not to imply that the covers it has used are necessarily aimed at kids, they are just not obviously aimed at adults). As far as I am aware, the UK publisher, Bloomsbury, is the only one that has released exactly the same books with two different designs in an apparent attempt to market to two separate age groups. Does anyone know if any other countries have done this? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From nlpnt at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 00:58:05 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:58:05 -0000 Subject: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes In-Reply-To: <91.4e9e97c.2780b9dc@aol.com> Message-ID: <92okmt+p11r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8246 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/31/00 5:05:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, > msmacgoo at o... writes: > > > > I don't think there are any students with disabilities at Hogwarts. I don't > > know that there are any PWDs anywhere in the magical world, except people > > like > > Moody who has acquired a disability later in life. > > > > It seems the only thing that medical magic is unable to fix is poor eyesight. > However, medical magic could be able to fix total blindness, as there are no blind wizards/witches. This raises an interesting question; how is this dealt with for babies who are 1)magical, 2)have disabilities, and 3)are born to all- Muggle families? At the outside, would an 11yo with, say, cerebral palsy be expected to learn to walk and talk while attending Hogwarts as a first-year? Or would they find out sooner? From kathleen at carr.org Mon Jan 1 00:06:37 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 19:06:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Let's be fair! (was the H/H kiss and other stuff . ..) Message-ID: <200101010113.f011DJU20453@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8247 >What I should have said is there is no *irrefutable* evidence that >Hermione likes Ron back. It is, in my mind, irrefutable that Ron likes >Hermione. It is likewise irrefutable that Harry has not expressed any >romantic interest in Hermione. What is open to debate on all sides are >Hermione's feelings. I think the arguments that she likes Ron are >arguable, subject to more than one interpretation. Just like the "kiss" >(and the other H/H evidence) is subject to more than one >interpretation. I've merely been arguing my case more strongly. I >*could* argue R/H if I chose to. I just think H/H is stronger -- that's >all. I think Hermione's feelings can't be ignored in the equation, and >her feelings are not exactly crystal clear at this point. > >Penny Wow, for once we actually agree, Penny! (: That's exactly what I was trying to say, but you said it a whole lot more eloquently. It's all subject to different interpretations, we just disagree on which one is the more obvious interpretation. Kathy From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 01:33:56 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 01:33:56 -0000 Subject: Class Schedule (rather long) In-Reply-To: <92oias+rhc4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92omq4+8alj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8248 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: 0_0 I'm very impressed here..... Is there a site where everybody has archived the cooler things posted here, like those Minutes that someone posted awhile back? > In my re-readings...(I'm on Year 2)...I've jotted down a few notes > about the kids classes. In Year 1 they have the following classes: > > Astronomy - Wednesdays at Midnight in the astronomy tower. (Ch. 8, pg > 133) At midnight! It seems as if that would tend to mess up the scheduling a bit. I take it that Harry and co. don't take Astronomy after the first year, nor flying lessons. > > Ok - so what does this mean (other than I've spent WAY too much time > going through these books lately)? a) WE pay much more attention to > the details than JKR does (and there's nothing wrong with that - it > happens all the time) b) class and teaching schedule wise - I don't > think these kids have all their classes every day. They're probably > more like my college classes than my high school classes. A couple > of the classes they probably only have once or twice a week. I think > it would be entirely possible the teaching schedules to fit. Take > Herbology for instance - SS/PS states that they only have it 3 times > a week. And in CoS it only seems to be on scheduled for Tuesdays and > Thursdays. As they get older and decide what they want to > "specialize" in, they probably take fewer hours of the core classes. > This does sound more like a college schedule, because if classes are an hour or even an hour and a half for lab, this still leaves an awfully large amount of free time. Seems a bit odd also that the times of classes from day to day aren't consistent (i.e., sometimes a class is before lunch on one day, and after lunch on another). The cores I take it would be Transfiguration, Charms, Herbology, Potions, Defense against Dark Arts and History of Magic, with the rest, like Arithmancy and Divination, being electives. I also seem to recall it being stated later in the series that the students must keep all their old classes, and just add on the electives. Sounds rather nasty, in terms of workload. Charmian From dhill52084 at aol.com Mon Jan 1 01:55:07 2001 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 20:55:07 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Little announcement Message-ID: <5e.5425928.27813d7b@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8249 Hi Sugar quill mistresses, I think you already have a topic for discussion. In book 4 Ginny goes to the Christmas Ball with Neville. I feel this is a better match up for Ginny. Harry should win Cho as a reward for her undaunted love and his first contact with love. Just my opinion. Don and Penguinie Bibliophile Penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 02:21:56 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 02:21:56 -0000 Subject: Random Inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <200012310433.eBV4XoU16168@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <92opk4+qn4o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8250 Kathleen:"This has probably been mentioned before, but in light of the recent discussion about Lily and the Decree for the Restiction of Underage Wizardry, I'll say it anyway. When Hermione first meets Ron and Harry on the train, shesays "I've tried a few simple spells just for practice and it's all worked for me." How come she didn't get in trouble?" She didn't get in trouble for the same reason Harry didn't get in trouble for what he did to Dudley or George did for turning Ron's teddy bear into a spider: they're all too young to be responsible. They've had no training and haven't been served notice of the no-no's of the wizarding world. It seems that all wizard children do it,including the little girl on the toy broomstick at the World Cup or the little boy expanding the slug.[in GoF]. Once they've been taught some magic, now, they have to be taught some restrictions. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 02:22:25 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 02:22:25 -0000 Subject: Class Schedule (rather long) In-Reply-To: <92omq4+8alj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92opl2+5hdn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8251 Charmain wrote "At midnight! It seems as if that would tend to mess up the scheduling a bit. I take it that Harry and co. don't take Astronomy after the first year, nor flying lessons." Perhaps Astronomy is prerequisite for Divination. Amy wrote: "Ok - so what does this mean (other than I've spent WAY too much time going through these books lately)?" You mean there's such a thing as "too much" Harry Potter :-) Amy also wrote: "a) WE pay much more attention to the details than JKR does (and there's nothing wrong with that - it happens all the time) b) class and teaching schedule wise - I don't think these kids have all their classes every day. Well I would imagine that JKR doesn't go into nearly as much detail as we do. For instance the number of students thread, or the "Why hasn't Marcus Flint left the school question?". "also seem to recall it being stated later in the series that the students must keep all their old classes, and just add on the electives. Sounds rather nasty, in terms of workload." ...and they can't all be using time turners. Scott From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 1 02:28:32 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:28:32 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Let's be fair! (was the H/H kiss and other stuff . . .) Message-ID: <7c.fab858f.27814550@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8252 In a message dated 12/31/2000 8:58:36 PM EST, ebonyink at hotmail.com writes: << I don't think that H/Hers are "louder" than R/Hers--what a blatant generalization. The list is certainly not pro-H/H. The only H/Hers that have *regularly* posted on this topic are Penny and myself. There are at least several H/H fanfic writers here who barely ever say anything at all. >> I tried to say this subtly in a previous post and I don't think I had much effect. I will therefore say it more bluntly: It is my personal belief that the H/H shippers (however many of them there are) are indeed substantially more vocal than those with other ship preferences, including the non-shippers. In fact, I believe the H/H ship has been belabored. Instead of having the apparently desired effect of convincing me of the possibility of an H/H ship, the end result has been, in my case, a fervent desire that neither Ron nor Harry "get stuck with her." I do hope this doesn't make you all mad at me, but lately most of the list has been taken up with this subject and I'm tired of it and starting to feel downright bullied. New subjects have been introduced and still the ship debate rages ... Everyone is, of course, welcome to whatever dreams or fantasies they may have shipwise ... my personal favorite is Draco/Ginny. But while I accept that each of us is entitled to their own opinion in this regard, I also feel that this horse (meaning the whole *ship* horse, not just the H/H one) is dead and we might as well quit beating it. I doubt at this point anyone's mind is likely to be changed and we certainly will have no effect on the progress of ships in the books. And as cool as everyone on this list is, I would be very saddened if anyone started taking the ship debate personally, which I'm afraid we are perilously close to doing. So... Here's something somewhat newish -- a friend sent me a tourist guide to Durham, England that included a pic of Raby Castle that looked so Hogwartish! I know it's not in Scotland but it is at least up north. Here's a url of a website that offers an online photo tour: http://www.rabycastle.com/ Enjoy! And happy New Years to you all! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 1 02:13:35 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 02:13:35 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cover Art/UK 'adult' GoF? References: <20001231225709.10544.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> <01d501c0738d$9cd71c20$7b3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <008a01c0739a$7ca01e40$b543063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8253 > Does anyone know if any other countries have done this? > Doesn't France have some sort of special edition ? Michelle From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 1 02:27:34 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 02:27:34 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Questions from American Muggle/'Shipping Post References: <92n3or+bkta@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008b01c0739a$7d266540$b543063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8254 > On how nearly all the adults work for the state (with the exception > of one of Ron's brothers who works for the bank, Lockhart, Skeeter, > L. Malfoy, and Voldy...it seems to be the expected thing to go into > civil service) : I recall reading an British novel set recently > where a lot of the characters also all worked at Whitehall (and the > rest were academics). Is this some sort of British convention? Not really. It used to be that if you wanted a safe and cushy job for life, then the civil service was for you. But that isn't the case now. Oh and listmoms I know this is OT but what novel gave you that impression. but am sadly afflicted with Subversively Interesting > Secondary Character Syndrome, a condition in which one is unable to > obsess over the relationships of the main character, for some reason. Please tell us more !! Michelle From macandharm_12 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 03:13:59 2001 From: macandharm_12 at hotmail.com (Liz Widger) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 22:13:59 -0500 Subject: Newbie Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8255 Hi, I'm new to the list! My name's Liz, I live in Pa, and I'm 18 years of age. I love the HP books and I can't wait to read some great fiction and get into some good discussions....this list came highly recommended so I can't wait to get involved! :) C-ya. Liz "They gotta start the poll, Josh. It's 7:05." -Donna "It's 10 to 7." -Josh "No, it's really not." -Donna "It's 7:05?" -Josh "Yeah." -Donna "That's ridiculous." -Josh "I'm not making it up." -Donna "My watch says 10 to 7." -Josh "That's cause your watch sucks." -Donna "My watch is fine." -Josh "Your watch says 10 to 7. " -Donna "How do I know it isn't 10 to 7?" -Josh "Cause those large clocks on the wall that are run by the U.S. Navy, say your watch sucks. In fact, they say your watch sucks in four different time zones." -Donna "WE ARE....PENN STATE!" "That the powerful play goes on and you may contribute a verse."-Prof. Keating (played by Robin Williams) in Dead Poet's Society "Back up, Mac! You have a tattoo? Why haven't I seen it? Now where would somebody find this...tattoo?" -Harm, as he looks her up and down "That's classified." -Mac "What is a friend? A single soul dwelling in two bodies"-Aristotle _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 1 04:00:37 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:00:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 References: Message-ID: <002e01c073a7$671165e0$3ac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 8256 ----- Original Message ----- From: Nathan To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 12:09 AM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 On this note, I wonder who was taking the minutes down? Definitely not Snape, from what I gather. Good question - I thought about that myself - surely a person in Dumbledore's position must have a secretary or a scribe or an amanuensis, but no such individual has ever been identified in the HP narrative to date: accordingly, I just took a dive on the issue, and left the minutes unsigned. Maybe we can say it was Prof. Flitwick, who has always struck me as a reasonable and judicious kind of guy. - CMC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 04:08:20 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 04:08:20 -0000 Subject: A "Hogwartsy" castle In-Reply-To: <7c.fab858f.27814550@aol.com> Message-ID: <92ovrk+o7s6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8257 Elizabeth wrote: "So... Here's something somewhat newish -- a friend sent me a tourist guide to Durham, England that included a pic of Raby Castle that looked so Hogwartish! I know it's not in Scotland but it is at least up north. "Here's a url of a website that offers an online photo tour:" http://www.rabycastle.com/ This castle is great! Obviously not as big as Hogwarts but...anyway the Kitchen and Servants Hall would be perfect for the the school's House Elves IMO! (Not that they'll ever get around to making GoF into a movie though) BTW, what does everyone think of the "artistic" renditions of Hogwarts on the WB merchandise. It has about a million windows and loads of towers. Not at all realistic but then what can you expect... Scott From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 1 04:33:34 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:33:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Various ships / who'll die? References: <927pvc+ivev@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008e01c073ac$010d6c80$3ac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 8259 ----- Original Message ----- From: naama To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 10:43 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Various ships / who'll die? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: In the delightful issue of who dies I have nothing to offer but my gut feelings. First of all, I disagree with anyone who thinks that one of the major characters (Harry, Hermione, Ron) will die. I will bet anybody my last knut that the end of book 7 will find them alive and well (after M. Pomfrey regrows several of their organs, obviously). I also quite firmly believe that these will not die either - Dumbledore (if he dies, it will be at the end of book 7 only), Molly, Arthur, Ginny, Fred and George Weasley (well, maybe one of the twins, but I really hope not), Hagrid. These are the possible deaths (I feel like some kind of Trelawney now): Bill or Charley Weasley, Crookshanks, either Lupin OR Sirius, a not very central teacher (Sprout, Flitwick and so own. Not McGonagall), Krum, Fleur, any of the kids at Gryffindor but not Neville (I think), Cho (I don't really think she'll die, though), Fudge, other Ministry officials, Snape might die heroically at some point (but not next book), any number of Death Eaters, possibly the Dursleys (Aunt Petunia?). Like I said, its gut feelings (which makes it very difficult to argue with, YAY!). Beyond gut feeling there's also the fact that JKR is keeping to the format of a certain kind of a fantasy story. Thats not to say she can't or won't break from this format, but so far she hasn't. When she warned that a friend of Harry's will die in GoF it turned out to be Cedric Diggory, more of an acquintance than a friend. So, although she issued the scary warning that "that's when the deaths begin" (when and where was that, BTW?), I wouldn't go so far as to believe that the next books will resemble teenage horror films Hey, I enjoy Freddy Kreuger as much as the next guy, but let's look at a more exalted parallel - the Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre. (And that may be "exalted" in the sense that the John Huston character in Chinatown noted that old businessmen, old whores and old buildings all get more respectable with age). Suppose that Shakespeare doled out Hamlet to his public an act at a time, and we've so far been given the first three acts. So, we've had one death so far (Polonius), though we've also learned in Act III that Claudius did murder his elder brother. Now let us further suppose that Shakespeare in the course of interviews with the press revealed that he had the entire plot of Hamlet sketched out, and that there were going to be a lot more deaths before the play's final resolution...How might we have possibly predicted the final resolution of the play (ANSWER: We would not have even come close: that's what makes Shakespeare and JKR geniuses, and the rest of us mere fans.....) I've previously given my guesses on the Vol 5-7 death toll: among the good guys, Dumbledore, Hagrid, Black, Lupin, Moody, but not Hermione, any of the Weasleys, or Harry Potter (although I confess that my confidence is most shaky with respect to our titular hero); among the bad guys, definitely Voldy, definitely Wormtail (after crossing back over to the "good" side), Malfoy pere et fils. etc. I think Snape will buy the farm, and although his status will remain highly ambiguous over the next three books, he will ultimately prove himself worthy of Dumbledore's confidence. - CMC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Jan 1 04:33:23 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 22:33:23 -0600 Subject: errr, oops Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001231223249.00a8a530@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8260 Sorry, I apparently just posted something that had gone throuigh but I didn't think had . . . ignore it :\ *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Magic Knight Rayearth OAV's From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 1 04:51:57 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 04:51:57 -0000 Subject: Book Banning In-Reply-To: <3A4DFF51.277551FD@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92p2dd+qcu2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8262 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > > > We may also disagree with their rationale for opposing HP, but > > certainly > > there are a number of groups across the political spectrum who have > > attempted (with varying degrees of success) the very same thing with > > literary works which they dislike (just think of Huckleberry Finn). > > Is banning Huck Finn any less dangerous to our society than banning HP? The example of Huck Finn should demonstrate that all efforts to ban in the USA a work of unquestioned literary merit are certain to run aground. - CMC From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 1 05:17:57 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 00:17:57 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] A "Hogwartsy" castle Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8263 In a message dated 12/31/2000 11:49:55 PM EST, harry_potter00 at yahoo.com writes: << This castle is great! Obviously not as big as Hogwarts but...anyway the Kitchen and Servants Hall would be perfect for the the school's House Elves IMO! (Not that they'll ever get around to making GoF into a movie though) >> Oh, I thought those were perfect for the house elves too! There's also a great hall and a baronial hall and an *octagonal* !! drawing room (what a fun Gryffindor common room that would make!). And the pic I have in the Durham guide shows it nicely situated by a lake and all. I'll ask my friend Lorraine in Durham (the one who saw the filming in Durham Cathedral) a bit more about it if y'all would like. I think she may have worked there in her high school days (or maybe it was Durham Castle ... can't remember which, but I will ask). << BTW, what does everyone think of the "artistic" renditions of Hogwarts on the WB merchandise. It has about a million windows and loads of towers. Not at all realistic but then what can you expect... >> No, it's not very realistic. But it is lots and lots of fun to look at! Oh, one more thing about Raby that I might have failed to mention ... it's quite closely connected with the Nevilles! ;) Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From john at walton.to Mon Jan 1 05:26:40 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:26:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 In-Reply-To: <002e01c073a7$671165e0$3ac54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8264 Caius Marcius said: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Nathan > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 12:09 AM > Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts Faculty Meeting Minutes, 11/15/95 > > > > On this note, I wonder who was taking the minutes down? Definitely not > Snape, from what I gather. > > Good question - I thought about that myself - surely a person in Dumbledore's > position must have a secretary or a scribe or an amanuensis, but no such > individual has ever been identified in the HP narrative to date: accordingly, > I just took a dive on the issue, and left the minutes unsigned. Maybe we can > say it was Prof. Flitwick, who has always struck me as a reasonable and > judicious kind of guy. > > - CMC Or, peut-etre, a Quick-Quotes-Quill or some such ilk. Happy New Year to all those Gregorians out there :) --John ========================================= John Walton? john at walton.to Campaign Spending: $2 billion Daddy's bill for Yale: $100k or so New Driver's License after becoming Governor: free Having your little brother fix the election for you: Priceless ========================================= From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Mon Jan 1 05:28:40 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 1 Jan 2001 05:28:40 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <978326920.84021@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8265 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /JesseHarry.gif Uploaded by : Schlobin at aol.com Description : My 3 year old as HP at Halloween You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/JesseHarry%2Egif To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, Schlobin at aol.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 05:29:57 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 05:29:57 -0000 Subject: Questions from American Muggle/'Shipping Post In-Reply-To: <008b01c0739a$7d266540$b543063e@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <92p4kl+nuta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8266 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > Not really. It used to be that if you wanted a safe and cushy job for > life, then the civil service was for you. But that isn't the case now. > Oh and listmoms I know this is OT but what novel gave you that > impression. Ah, thanks. I can't really recall what the exact novel was, as it wasn't actually that recent. It was an Iris Murdoch novel, and although perhaps all the characters weren't gov't employees, an unusually large proportion of the main characters were, and a lot of her books featured prominent characters who graduated from Oxford and then went on to the civil service. > > > but am sadly afflicted with Subversively Interesting > > Secondary Character Syndrome, a condition in which one is unable to > > obsess over the relationships of the main character, for some reason. > Please tell us more !! > Well, I also spend time in anime/manga fandom, in which I was diagnosed (by myself) with this syndrome. There was also a tremendous (but far more vicious) debate in this particular one over 'shipping, and I slowly realized that neither of the debated couples as couples interested me in the least because I was too busy being interested in another character. Although, I guess these were not necessarily mutually exclusive. Perhaps this should be attributed to Protagonist Shipping Indifference Syndrome instead. Subversively Interesting Secondary Character Syndrome means you obsess over the secondary characters instead: the nonviewpoint characters who don't get as much pagetime in the series, yet are given by the narrative (or the sufferer's deranged mind) a great deal of mystery, complexity, or potential. Those unafflicted will frequently be completely confounded at these fascinations. Often these characters will not be imbued with traits conventionally likely to make them fanfavorites. Examples from HP, to save this post from OT hell: Snape, Draco (I don't really get the tremendous interest in Draco myself, but there you go). Charmian From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 1 05:36:49 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 05:36:49 -0000 Subject: Stephen Fry's version/minority AGAIN In-Reply-To: <92dl5s+sor9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92p51h+nk3t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8267 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rosie Becky" wrote: > I also listened to it, and my sister taped it even though it took up, > like, 3 tapes. Madness! I also heard JKR when the story ended, In the > interview. By the way hello! im new :oP I like Fry's version, but he was reading. Jim Dale acts out the parts, and invokes in me much more of a suspension of reality..I feel as if I'm actually there.... Susan...... From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 1 05:40:53 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 05:40:53 -0000 Subject: Happy New Year Everyone! Message-ID: <92p595+sk4e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8268 In honor of the new year, I have posted my three year old son's - James Jesse March McGee -- picture. He was HP for Halloween. He calls him "Harry Powder". We had an HP Christmas...I have the pillow and ornaments and bookends and calendars and sweatshirts, etc. etc. etc. Susan McGee From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Jan 1 05:49:08 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 05:49:08 -0000 Subject: Cover Art/UK 'adult' GoF? In-Reply-To: <01d501c0738d$9cd71c20$7b3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <92p5ol+7ma1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8269 Neil -- Germany and France have adult covers too. See: http://www.redmailorder.com/potter/covergallery.htm The adult covers are near the bottom of the Web Page. -JF --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > As far as I am aware, > the UK publisher, Bloomsbury, is the only one that has released > exactly the > same books with two different designs in an apparent attempt to > market to > two separate age groups. > > Does anyone know if any other countries have done this? > > Neil From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Jan 1 05:39:58 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 23:39:58 -0600 Subject: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions References: <7c.fab858f.27814550@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A50182E.647255E4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8270 Hi -- mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > I tried to say this subtly in a previous post and I don't think I had > much effect. There was a post from you earlier Elizabeth that was addressed specifically to me (something about filing a "no evidence" motion). No such thing in legal parlance I don't think, but I'm not a litigator. > It is my personal belief that the H/H shippers (however many of them > there are) are indeed substantially more vocal than those with other > ship preferences, including the non-shippers. In fact, I believe the > H/H ship has been belabored. Just the H/H ship has been belabored? Really? Hmm, guess that shows where your sympathies lie. > I do hope this doesn't make you all mad at me, but lately most of the > list has been taken up with this subject and I'm tired of it and > starting to feel downright bullied. New subjects have been introduced > and still the ship debate rages ... The debate rages because people are interested in it. If you are *not* interested in it, then there is simply no need for you to feel "bullied." There's in fact a very very simple solution to your problem Elizabeth, and it doesn't involve "scolding" the list or trying to berate the list into abandoning a topic you find tiresome. This applies to everyone: USE YOUR DELETE KEYS if you don't want to read a particular thread of conversation. I've asked & most all people are complying with the request that subject headers be relevant. I can say with virtual certainty that all the shipper debate posts of the last few weeks have been very clearly labelled in the subject heading. Accordingly, there is absolutely no need for anyone to proclaim that they've been unwittingly subjected to a tiresome thread of messages that they would have avoided had they been warned. If the subject heading indicates it's something you don't want to read about, then delete the message & move on. You are also always welcome (as you did) to introduce new topics of discussion in the hopes that everyone will grow tired of the one you wish would die a quick death. Personally, there are plenty of threads that I skim or delete myself. I do usually at least open all the messages & give them a quick skim on the off-chance that the subject header is misleading. Not all topics are going to be of interest to everyone. But, you've joined a *discussion* group. All *on-topic* discussions are therefore welcome. Not everyone need participate in all ongoing discussions. That is why I've tried to periodically remind people to be mindful of their subject headings. Whether you love 'em or hate 'em though, the shipper discussions are decidedly on-topic. They are not going to be banned. I like to think I'm fair-minded though -- I've never asked that any on-topic discussion be abandoned (even the ones that I personally despise). As I mentioned in a message earlier this evening, I can also say that the shipper debates (like some others) follow a reasonably predictable pattern. They go strong for a week to 3 weeks & then they die a natural death. They resurface 2-3 months later. So, never fear Elizabeth, I'm sure your inbox won't be subjected to messages belaboring the H/H point of view for much longer. But, it will not be because any one person admonishes the rest of us to abandon a discussion we're enjoying. It will be because the debates run their natural course for this cycle. Hopefully, I'm not offending anyone, but I have a very strong stance on free speech & on the nature of internet discussion groups. You are in no way a captive audience in this group. You're always free to avoid certain messages, avoid all posts by certain individuals or avoid the group as a whole, whenever & however you choose. Thanks for listening. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From drmm at fuuko.com Mon Jan 1 07:30:54 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 01:30:54 -0600 Subject: Let's be fair! (was the H/H kiss and other stuff . . .) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010101005443.00a94ba0@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8271 Rather than respond directly to either Ebony or Penny's posts (as I found myself distinctly irritated after reading them) I have instead chosen to respond to Elizabeth's post. >I tried to say this subtly in a previous post and I don't think I had much >effect. I will therefore say it more bluntly: > >It is my personal belief that the H/H shippers (however many of them there >are) are indeed substantially more vocal than those with other ship >preferences, including the non-shippers. In fact, I believe the H/H ship has >been belabored. Instead of having the apparently desired effect of >convincing me of the possibility of an H/H ship, the end result has been, in >my case, a fervent desire that neither Ron nor Harry "get stuck with her." > >I do hope this doesn't make you all mad at me, but lately most of the list >has been taken up with this subject and I'm tired of it and starting to feel >downright bullied. New subjects have been introduced and still the ship >debate rages ... > >Everyone is, of course, welcome to whatever dreams or fantasies they may >have shipwise ... my personal favorite is Draco/Ginny. But while I accept >that each of us is entitled to their own opinion in this regard, I also feel that >this horse (meaning the whole *ship* horse, not just the H/H one) is dead >and we might as well quit beating it. I doubt at this point anyone's mind is >likely to be changed and we certainly will have no effect on the progress of >ships in the books. And as cool as everyone on this list is, I would be very >saddened if anyone started taking the ship debate personally, which I'm >afraid we are perilously close to doing. I think you have stated this wonderfully. I am afraid that I was distinctly misinterpreted by Ebony. I was not attempting to belittle those of you who choose to become deeply invested in the romance debate. However, I think there is a time at which the debate becomes meaningless; when both sides become so invested in their own point of view that no one is going to change it. That's why the debate becomes pointless to me. And I was attempting to state that *I* choose to not fully participate in it in order to avoid taking it personally myself and keep others from taking it personally. Anyway, I agree with what Elizabeth said. DrMM * Note - this was my polite response. I wrote a distinctly irritated response (read: rant) which I posted on my personal weblog (http://www.fuuko.com/blog/). If you would like to view it, please do so. Just be aware that it is a rant and if you have any comments (read: hate mail) on it, respond to me personally. And I wonder if I'll regret doing this? *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Magic Knight Rayearth OAV's From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 1 08:23:42 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 08:23:42 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Cover Art/UK 'adult' GoF? References: <92p5ol+7ma1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <026001c073cc$3eb5d340$7b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8272 Jim Flanagan said, re adult covers of HP books: > Neil -- > > Germany and France have adult covers too. See: > http://www.redmailorder.com/potter/covergallery.htm Thanks Jim (and Michelle). I haven't checked out the cover galleries for a while and there were quite a few I hadn't seen. I have the French 'special edition' of "...Philisopher's Stone," which features a mini version of the original cover in the corner of a more sober background shot: I guess that does count as an 'adult' version. The thinking behind the German adult covers seems to be similar to that applied to the UK ones and I noticed that there are two Catalan versions as well, one of which has a more adult feel to it. I wonder why so many countries use the US artwork? Some even changed the title of the first book back to "...Philosopher's Stone," but stuck with the GrandPre design. Don't get me wrong: I really like her artwork (except the PoA cover, ahem), but why not commission something new in each country? Re the German adult covers I note that they refer to the author as "Joanne K Rowling," dropping the asexual, boy-friendly "JK" but keeping the false K (she said somewhere that she doesn't have a middle name and that the middle "Kathleen" was made up by the UK publisher). Happy 2001, one and all!! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 1 09:44:35 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 20:44:35 +1100 Subject: Underage magic [HPforGrownups] (was Random Inconsistencies) Message-ID: <01C07433.AD529B00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8273 Kathleen:"This has probably been mentioned before, but in light of the recent discussion about Lily and the Decree for the Restiction of Underage Wizardry, I'll say it anyway. When Hermione first meets Ron and Harry on the train, shesays "I've tried a few simple spells just for practice and it's all worked for me." How come she didn't get in trouble?" She didn't get in trouble for the same reason Harry didn't get in trouble for what he did to Dudley or George did for turning Ron's teddy bear into a spider: they're all too young to be responsible. They've had no training and haven't been served notice of the no-no's of the wizarding world. It seems that all wizard children do it, including the little girl on the toy broomstick at the World Cup or the little boy expanding the slug.[in GoF]. Once they've been taught some magic, now, they have to be taught some restrictions. That's a good explanation Jim - but what about Lily coming home from that dammed school and turning tea cups into tadpoles? Storm (poking holes for fun) -----Original Message----- From: Jim Ferer [SMTP:jferer at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 12:22 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Random Inconsistencies To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 1 09:37:11 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 09:37:11 -0000 Subject: Like ships that pass in the night... Message-ID: <027701c073d6$80794280$7b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8274 I'm a bit disappointed that, of late, the so-called 'shipper' debate has moved away from friendly, good-natured teasing and taken on a rather bristly tone. Surely, there is no need for that in an enlightened literary discussion group? The relationships and potential relationships between the three main characters in the Harry Potter books are, IMO, valid topics for discussion, and although a lot of it ends up filed under "that old chestnut" on my computer I don't agree with the suggestion that it is now just gainsaying between the H/He and R/He camps. With new people joining all the time we often end up repeating previous discussions and get valuable new input. I've had my mind changed several times by points made in this group. I think one of the the main reasons romantic pairings are such an enduring topic here is that there is a *huge* subculture of HP fanfiction dealing with relationships between the characters and, inevitably, some of that has encroached upon this group. Anyone who has joined our Sunday chats recently will have noticed that shipping and fanfic now feature heavily there (and it goes way beyond H/He and R/He, I can assure you!). A lot of the 'clique' talk goes over my head, because I've only read a smattering of fanfic, but I either ride it out (and maybe pick up some recommendations on the best fanfics to read), attempt to change the subject or log off. What I don't do is say "shut up and talk about something else." Now... let's all join hands and skip around in a circle of friendship: the most important 'ship' of all. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 1 10:40:21 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 21:40:21 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] PWD Wizards (was Re: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes Message-ID: <01C0743B.7652BC40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8275 Storm said> > I don't think there are any students with disabilities at Hogwarts. I don't > > know that there are any PWDs anywhere in the magical world, except people > > like > > Moody who has acquired a disability later in life. > > > Someone else said (sorry)> It seems the only thing that medical magic is unable to fix is poor eyesight. > nlpant said: However, medical magic could be able to fix total blindness, as there are no blind wizards/witches. This raises an interesting question; how is this dealt with for babies who are 1)magical, 2)have disabilities, and 3)are born to all- Muggle families? At the outside, would an 11yo with, say, cerebral palsy be expected to learn to walk and talk while attending Hogwarts as a first-year? Or would they find out sooner? I speculated on this in a very poor taste (but funny if you live/work with PW significant D everyday she says a *little* defensively) post a week or so ago. I think the answer may be that is it's not possible in this world:(. Maybe there are no PW significant* D's in this world (other than those who acquire something later on. In which case it is what ever you get is either fatal or leaves you mostly able). I think it is possible that JKR (though obviously brilliant etc) didn't consider this section of the population when creating her world. Thinking to a parallel err 'world creator', JK Tolkein etc - I don't think he addressed this either. Maybe in 50 years someone will write a book that has Asian people AND white people AND black people AND straight people AND lesbian/gay people AND people with disabilities AND people who don't speak the dominant language AND people from different social classes AND so on ... Jo's doing quite well all things considered (I have, reluctantly, to allow her this). I just wish she'd remembered to put in 'my' two groups: lesbian/gay and PWD's (but you all know this already lol!) storm *by significant I mean disabilities that require some intervention to live your life, either physical adaptations, medical or support hours, additional training, other specific adaptations etc -----Original Message----- From: nlpnt at yahoo.com [SMTP:nlpnt at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, January 01, 2001 10:58 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Quidditch and Mud (was: Astronomy + ideas for classes --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 12/31/00 5:05:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, > msmacgoo at o... writes: > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 12:13:22 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:13:22 +0200 Subject: the heroes nuptual happiness...;-) Message-ID: <002701c073ed$a0b78900$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8276 >Some of our members have in the past proposed perpetual celibacy for >Harry. Penny and others have countered that idea with some >intriguing points that I tend to agree with. But has anyone ever >thought of perpetual celibacy for all three? That would make the no- >shippers who want to line all us hopeless romantics up against a wall >and leave us to the mercy of a firing squad very happy. Well, although that's an interesting idea, I'd tend to go with the they-all-marry-different-people-but-keep-their-even-more-wonderful-trio-rela tionship-which-in-most-ways-is-more-special-than-their-romantic-relationship s-and-thus-continue-as-they-are-now-and-also-experience-nuptual-happiness suggestion. but I am not sure that'll happen. in fact, in a way this theory is even more "happily-ever-after" than any of the others. it just fits my deep unrealistic wish which I have as regarsd to my own life as well, that my romantic relations and my friends be seperate and harmonic, and not tangled, everything so clear. That "old acquaintances" should not be "forgot" also after marriage, and the lapse many years. Maya (being well-aware that I'm about 5 days late in m replies.... sorry, been busy - I am 12 days before I go the the army [for two long years] and there is much to do, and many people to say goodbye to...) From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 12:19:43 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:19:43 +0200 Subject: the end of GoF Message-ID: <002801c073ed$a1d4dfe0$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8277 Michelle, I am pretty sure everyone's read GoF already , but still, since you put in a spoiler space, maybe you know about some people who haven't, so: - - - - - - s p o i l l e r - - s p a c e - - - :-) >Cedric's death made me feel shocked but not as sad as if I really felt I >knew who he was or his abscence would make a massive difference to how I >felt. well, this may be cruel, but I wasn't in shock at all, I just thought "that's it??" . In some way I WANTED it to be someone important who dies, after all the noise that was made about it at the time... Maya From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 12:21:14 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 04:21:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Like ships that pass in the night... Message-ID: <20010101122114.23510.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8278 --- Neil Ward wrote: > I'm a bit disappointed that, of late, the so-called > 'shipper' debate has moved away from friendly, > good-natured teasing and taken on a rather bristly > tone. Surely, there is no need for that in an > enlightened literary discussion group? > > The relationships and potential relationships > between the three main characters in the Harry > Potter books are, IMO, valid topics for discussion, > and although a lot of it ends up filed under "that > old chestnut" on my computer I don't agree with the > suggestion that it is now just gainsaying between > the H/He and R/He camps. With new people joining > all the time we often end up repeating previous > discussions and get valuable new input. I've had my > mind changed several times by points made in this > group. > > I think one of the the main reasons romantic > pairings are such an enduring topic here is that > there is a *huge* subculture of HP fanfiction > dealing with relationships between the characters > and, inevitably, some of that has encroached upon > this group. Anyone who has joined our Sunday chats > recently will have noticed that shipping and fanfic > now feature heavily there (and it goes way beyond > H/He and R/He, I can assure you!). A lot of the > 'clique' talk goes over my head, because I've only > read a smattering of fanfic, but I either ride it > out (and maybe pick up some recommendations on the > best fanfics to read), attempt to change the subject > or log off. What I don't do is say "shut up and > talk about something else." > > Now... let's all join hands and skip around in a > circle of friendship: the most important 'ship' of > all. > > Neil Beautifully said, Neil. I think the important thing for us to remember is that we've managed to find so many people of diverse backgrounds and viewpoints, all of whom have something in common and can come together to discuss it. While I may not be a particularly vocal poster on this list, I always enjoy finding out how others view the books and look forward to checking my email and hearing what everyone has to say. On that note, I wish you all a very Happy New Year and wish you all the best in 2001. Sheryll, who must now go try to stop the cat from eating tinsel off the Christmas tree. ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 12:36:35 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 12:36:35 -0000 Subject: Various ships / who'll die? In-Reply-To: <008e01c073ac$010d6c80$3ac54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <92ptkj+q1gd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8279 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > > > Hey, I enjoy Freddy Kreuger as much as the next guy, but let's look at a more exalted parallel - the Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre. (And that may be "exalted" in the sense that the John Huston character in Chinatown noted that old businessmen, old whores and old buildings all get more respectable with age). Suppose that Shakespeare doled out Hamlet to his public an act at a time, and we've so far been given the first three acts. So, we've had one death so far (Polonius), though we've also learned in Act III that Claudius did murder his elder brother. Now let us further suppose that Shakespeare in the course of interviews with the press revealed that he had the entire plot of Hamlet sketched out, and that there were going to be a lot more deaths before the play's final resolution...How might we have possibly predicted the final resolution of the play (ANSWER: We would not have even come close: that's what makes Shakespeare and JKR geniuses, and the rest of us mere fans.....) > I see your point, but I must say I think you've picked a very poor example to demostrate it. It would be quite enough to read act I of Hamlet to be sure that the play will not end happily. I wouldn't be able to predict all the deaths, suicides and murders, of course, but I wouldn't at all be surprised by them (and that, also, is what makes Shakespeare a genius). The first act, let me remind you (thought you obviously don't need a reminder), shows us the hero as a young man deeply grieving the loss of his father, disgusted and horrified by his mother's obscenely early marriage to an uncle he dislikes. At this point Hamlet feels this: "O that this too too solid flesh would melt, Thaw, and resolve itself into a dew! Or that the Everlasting had not fix'd His canon 'gainst self-slaughter! O God! God! How weary, stale, flat, and unprofitable Seem to me all the uses of this world!" (Act I, Scene II) He is already contemplating suicide! THEN he and we find out that the adored father was cold-bloodedly murdered by the uncle. What would you expect after that but madness, grief and death? And its not only in the plot, either. The first act already reeks with the smell of blood, ill omens and horror. For instance this speech by Horatio: "In the most high and palmy state of Rome, A little ere the mightiest Julius fell, The graves stood tenantless, and the sheeted dead Did squeak and gibber in the Roman streets; As stars with trains of fire, and dews of blood, Disasters in the sun; and the moist star Upon whose influence Neptune's empire stands Was sick almost to doomsday with eclipse. And even the like precurse of fierce events, As harbingers preceding still the fates And prologue to the omen coming on, Have heaven and earth together demonstrated Unto our climature and countrymen." (Act I, Scene I) On the principle that the gun seen at the first act will shoot at the third act (Chekhov, I believe), do you really see such hints in the HP books? (I'm not talking only of plot, but also about the atmosphere, the feel of the books.) > I've previously given my guesses on the Vol 5-7 death toll: among the good guys, Dumbledore, Hagrid, Black, Lupin, Moody, but not Hermione, any of the Weasleys, or Harry Potter (although I confess that my confidence is most shaky with respect to our titular hero); > Just to be clear on this - do you think all the good guys you mentioned will die or just one or two of them? Naama From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 12:39:15 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:39:15 +0200 Subject: number of students Message-ID: <004601c073ff$964c2040$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8280 > >In CoS though, when Griffidore 2nd years have Herbology with the >Hufflepuffs, there are about 20 pairs of earmuffs meaning that there are >about 20 student with the two groups combined. the 5 griffindor boys, plus >the 3 girls that we know about (Lavender Brown, Parvati Patil, and Hermione) >equals 7, leaving Hufflepuff with about 12 students in that grade.(prof. >Sprout needs earmuffs too.) Again, I appologize for replying so late, to an issue that has probabl already been resolved... : Well, I always assumed (I am not sure what I am basing this on though) that there were 5 boys and 5 girls in Harry's year Gryffindor. Okay, we don't really hear of anyone but Lavender and Parvati, but it makes sense, and I am nearly sure it's mentioned SOMEWHERE that they are 10 in most of their classes. I am also pretty sure there are no more boys. So I don't think that Hufflpuff has more. It makes sense, in general that all houses be more or less the same size, and like the example you just presented, tehre are several instances from which we can guess this. However, on the other hand, it can't be that every house has the same number of people in it... I mean, the sorting hat doesn't KNOW before someone wears it, how many are left to sort, and of course, it doesn'sort them acocrding to the desired equal numbers in house sizes... I also wouldn't say it MORE DIFFICULT to get into the two more "prestegious" houses... I mean, you don't have to be special. I just had this discussion with my best friend, yesterday. We argued as to what exactly the sorting means? does it mean that the person sorted into that house will actuall prove his sorting? I mean, Lavender and Pervati don't exactly prove to be "Brave at heart" or whatever it was. I argued that the sorting hat simply sorts the less obvious people according to which out of the 4 main characteristics the person being sorted is more LIKELY to show, and according to which characteristic of his, (if he is strong in more than one ) would help him more, which will help him to fulfill his potential more. I think.... ;-) maybe I should re-read the parts with the sorting hat again, in the books. Maya (please, from now on, just take for granted that I reply to most messages several dyas late - thanks. ;-) ) From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 13:09:56 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:09:56 +0200 Subject: Is aunt Petunia a witch?? Message-ID: <004701c073ff$97b5c260$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8281 >Am I the only one thinking aunt Petunia could be a witch? I think she is but wouldn't admit it. That makes her 'overmuggling' it sometimes. I think she is the person that knows why Harry has to be with the Dursleys. you know, that would explain many things. It could mean that in fact, Lily's parent's could have been wizards, and that we were actually misled about the muggle-decsent issue (although I am sure that if I reread that bit , I wil find out that there is no room for error in this matter). nevertheless, I'll go on with this theory - Assuming this is possible, this means that the absurd (yet amusing) theory I once had about the "surprising" truly Amercian style ending of "Voldemort was actually Lily's father / other relative" , could actually be possible. I know this is a TERRIBLE idea for an ending, or a secret hidden behind V's wish to murder harry's father and him, and only killing Lily because hse defended Harry, but it IS possbile . I wonder if this list ever discussed such an idea? I presented it to my friend, and she even went as far as suggesting, that an in the story in the Greek Mythology, Voldermort might have got a premonition or something of the sort, that his own grandson (or whatever, they could be related in many different ways) is going to be the only one who could really bring him down, and decided to kill him, AND his father in order to prevent it happening. I know this is hightly unlikely, and I would be very disappointed if JKR decide on something even similar to it, but I'd just like your thoughts on this, just the same. :-) Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 13:19:01 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:19:01 +0200 Subject: Mystery at Hogwarts (if I remmeberd the name correctly) Message-ID: <004801c073ff$98daba60$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8282 >Hope that makes a little sense, at least, >kimberly Thank you! this was really fun to read, and I'm just going to post a friend of mine who's jsut moved to live in the US, to possibly get it for me and bring it back with him when he visits here in March. It sounds lovely. I have clue and when I was young , played it often, but after a few games you DO wish that there was a little more complexity in it, and this sounds like the answer...;-) Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 13:24:54 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:24:54 +0200 Subject: Harry's birth year Message-ID: <004901c073ff$99bc8ee0$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8283 >Well, definitely. Harry was born 31 July 1981 (under most accepted >timelines) Nice to know he's supposed to be my age... ;-) Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 13:44:45 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:44:45 +0200 Subject: )OT) R/H resemblence to Anne oGG Message-ID: <004a01c073ff$9ad9e5c0$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8284 >> You are living, walking proof of a theory I presented earlier this >> week here. I proposed that most avid Annefans (like you and I) lean >> R/H. At least, the ones I know do. H/H is almost like Anne marrying >> Roy Gardner... whereas Ron is more Gil-like in that he's the "boy >> next door" type right now. >> > You know, I'd managed not to lean towards any pairing, until that >paragraph. Plus, I'm in the midst of rereading GoF, just after the ball, and >R/H is really making sense now. Ron doesn't know it, but Hermione is clueing >in. > > And yes, I'm an Anne fan too. Your theory confirmed my growing >feelings towards R/H. I'd join Kindred Spirits but I'm already drowning in >e-mail. I had to move this list to my work account so I wouldn't get >overwhelmed at home. Which means I've spent my spare time today catching up >on 280 + e-mails because I had the last 4 days off. > Oh, it really is lovely to find people who have come up with the same mental associations as I have. I don't want to be mailing OT, but I just have to say on the Anne Subject: I have redcently been to England, and in Heathrow, on th way back, in the last 3 mintiues before they closed the HMV shop, I spotten the double cassette of the third episode in the film adapted Anne trilogy. I have had the two first ones (each containing 2 tapes) for many years, and had always wished for a third one. I love the books, and even though these films (espeially the 2nd episode) extremely LOOSLY based on the books, I like them just as well, even as a completely new story. However, after watching only 15 mintues of episode three (which Ioriginally was extatic to have found, and jsut by chance, at that) I was already very disappointed and saw that in this case, their wanting to make something original and new had made the film TERRIBLY not Anne-like at all. I mean, not only is it not remotely like the original books (and after all, after her returning to Avonlea in the end of the 2nd espiode of the Trilogy - they could have continued it just like the book, they didn't have to continue the different course) , the third episode isn't even remotely close to the first two. Okay, Anne, Gilbert and Diana are the same actors, but they don't really look 5 years older as claimed but 10 year older, and the lovely old music's different, and all the settings are not original. Okay, sorry for being so off-topic. if anyone can comment on this, you could do it off-list to my address above...;-) I'd love to ehar anyone's thoughts on this, as the only other frinds I have who read Anne, don't even agree to watch the film adaptation.... Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 13:49:17 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 15:49:17 +0200 Subject: Serius' bike Message-ID: <004b01c073ff$9c0fa6a0$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8285 Hi Amy! >I'm brand new to the list, so I apologize if I'm covering old territory. >(I'm American but I think it was dumb to change the title >so I'll stick with calling it PS) Welcome to the list, although I have no right to really welcome you as I;ve only joined a week ago myself, only I have to agree with you on the PS name issue...;-) Maya >Okay, so what do you think--is this just an error on JKR's part or a clue? >If the latter, to what? Any ideas, anyone? I think it was some mistake. although I suppose most of us would hate to think that she makes mistakes . I mean, making a mistake in an interview (as we believe might be the case regarding the # of students) is not like wiritng it down and publishing it. Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 14:04:26 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:04:26 +0200 Subject: Wizardy books... Message-ID: <004c01c073ff$9d0b6bc0$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8286 >I just finished reading all four books again, played all the games I >got for Christmas, never missed a question in the trivia game. I >need another book and I need it now. Will someone suggest other >titles that may keep me happy for the what seems like an unreasonable >amount of time until book five arrives? Are there any other >witch/wizard/magic type stories out there? > > Well, I assume you've already read "The Lion, the witch and the wardrobe" ? Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 14:09:47 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 16:09:47 +0200 Subject: The books... Message-ID: <004d01c073ff$9ddc7760$08a6003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8287 Btw, about the book issue, I just wanted to add that I had the same problem. After reading all the four, I just could NOT concentrate on ANY OTHER book. Even though before Harry Potter I read a lot, I just couldn't concentrate in any other. What I did in the end was reread them withOUT rereading #4,(okay, this was also partyly because it;s my least favourite of the series) , also because it prevented me from dwelling on "so what's next?" . I then started reading somr light reading... More murder mysteries by agatha Christie, that sort of thing - thing sin which you don't have to get deeply attached to the characters.... Maya From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 14:40:42 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 14:40:42 -0000 Subject: Merchandise art in general In-Reply-To: <92ovrk+o7s6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92q4ta+7u2a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8288 Scott:" BTW, what does everyone think of the "artistic" renditions of Hogwarts on the WB merchandise. It has about a million windows and loads of towers. Not at all realistic but then what can you expect..." I think the art on all the merchandise -- posters, calendar, figures -- is cheesy. Warner's hurried the process, it looks like, and none of the stuff is very good. I would like to see some Harry art from Dean Morrisey (Ship of Dreams) Ruth Sanderson (the Twelve Dancing Princesses), or even Trina Schart Hyman (The Serpent Slayer, Sleeping Beauty, and too many others to count). From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 14:51:36 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 14:51:36 -0000 Subject: Underage magic [HPforGrownups] (was Random Inconsistencies) In-Reply-To: <01C07433.AD529B00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <92q5ho+6e45@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8289 Storm said: > > That's a good explanation Jim - but what about Lily coming home from that > dammed school and turning tea cups into tadpoles? I don't have an answer for that one. it doesn't negate the answer about the younger witches, though. Maybe Lily *did* get in a spot of bother for it, we wouldn't know. From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 15:24:54 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 15:24:54 -0000 Subject: number of students In-Reply-To: <004601c073ff$964c2040$08a6003e@default> Message-ID: <92q7g6+de8m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8290 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Maya Crabtree" wrote: Again, I appologize for replying so late, to an issue that has probably already been resolved... : The Orange Order and the IRA will be doing circle dances with Hezbollah and Ariel Sharon before this is resolved.... " Well, I always assumed (I am not sure what I am basing this on though) that there were 5 boys and 5 girls in Harry's year Gryffindor. Okay, we don't really hear of anyone but Lavender and Parvati, but it makes sense, and I am nearly sure it's mentioned SOMEWHERE that they are 10 in most of their classes." It seems pretty clear there's five boys, but not everybody agrees on the number of girls. We only have heard of three, but we really don't know the number. It's true that around twenty is mentioned for many of the classes. "I am also pretty sure there are no more boys. So I don't think that Hufflpuff has more. It makes sense, in general that all houses be more or less the same size, and like the example you just presented, tehre are several instances from which we can guess this. However, on the other hand, it can't be that every house has the same number of people in it..." There's less agreement here. Some of us think it possible that Gryffindor and Slytherin may be smaller than the other houses. I always found this idea appealing on the notion that there's always more people doing the work than getting the glory, but I don't have a shred of evidence for it. "I mean, the sorting hat doesn't KNOW before someone wears it, how many are left to sort, and of course, it doesn'sort them acocrding to the desired equal numbers in house sizes... I also wouldn't say it MORE DIFFICULT to get into the two more "prestegious" houses... I mean, you don't have to be special." No doubt in my mind about this. The Sorting Hat has said more than once it puts people where they ought to be, and, by inference, without considering quotas or number of students per house or anything else. If you belong in Ravenclaw, you go to Ravenclaw. Gryffindor, Gryffindor. As for 'elitism', being a wizard is pretty special already. Gryffindors will always be elite, not matter what. "We honor the wise but elevate the brave." Why hasn't Hufflepuff had [that] kind of glory in all those years? [GoF] And if if wasn't for the Slytherins, where would Wall Street recruit and who would live in Greenwich Connecticut? [sorry, but I used to live there. 75% of the town is Slytherin, I swear] Problem is, JKR has stated there are a thousand students. Hard to figure out. Most of us were much lower, as low as 300 or so [Penny, a lot of others] 450-500 [me] and a few at 800-1000 [Rita]. But, since it's JKR's universe, we're kinda stuck with it. From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 15:46:52 2001 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (Kazza mazzoo) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 15:46:52 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please OT In-Reply-To: <020001c07376$1c609240$c6c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <92q8pc+8ipc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8291 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > OE is Outlook Express, Microsoft's program to handle e-mail. IE is > Internet Explorer. > catrina Sorry, my mistake. Don't hear OE much on the net, only at work. Usually hear "Yahoo you are the weakest link. Goodbye". LOL (Love that phrase!!! Go Anne Robinson hehehe) Kazza From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Mon Jan 1 15:57:18 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 02:57:18 +1100 Subject: OT: Repeating years (was: Marcus Flint) References: <92mlvm+lttp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01b001c0740b$87db6aa0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8292 At my school they pick out the students who are really good at sports and encourage them to take the final exams spread over two years so they can be in the top team both years and benefit the school's chances of winning. It's sickening. :-( Simon. Rita Winston wrote: > As IIRC Neil already mentioned, the fans decided that Flint had > failed too many classes and had to repeat one year BEFORE JKR said on > in an on-line chat. Muggle schools don't let people with students > with sufficiently bad grades have extra-curricular activities (unless > they are REALLY GOOD athletes, important for the team to win), but I > expect that Dumbledore believes that a student should be allowed to > do the one thing he's good at. From lj2d30 at gateway.net Mon Jan 1 16:10:56 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 16:10:56 -0000 Subject: Underage magic In-Reply-To: <92q5ho+6e45@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92qa6g+smp6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8293 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > Storm said: > > > > That's a good explanation Jim - but what about Lily coming home from > that > > dammed school and turning tea cups into tadpoles? Perhaps only after Voldy came into power did the MoM issue the Decree for the Reasonable Restriction of Underage Sorcery. (Although I do notice "1875" after it, so I don't know if that means when the decree was put in place. Maybe there's a flaw in my theory...) Okay, so maybe they just didn't enforce it until Voldy came into power. Or maybe there's a "school work" clause that excludes Hogwarts homework from being restricted... Hmmm, I'll have to think some more on this... More thoeries to come... Trina From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Jan 1 17:01:43 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 11:01:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Like ships that pass in the night... References: <027701c073d6$80794280$7b3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A50B7F6.60580F39@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8294 Hi-- Happy New Year to everyone! Thanks to Neil for reminding us all that the friendships of this group are the most important "ship"of all. I think his post was well-stated. If I offended anyone with my message last night, I apologize. I do think, however, that we have to be mindful not to try & quash *any* on-topic discussions. No matter how much you may believe it's just going around & around, there are new members who haven't heard it all before and/or there might be the occasional new point that justifies its continuing existence. There've been lots of messages about bowler hats, Dumbledore's socks & the number of students in the last 10 days (same time period as the latest round of shipper debates). The bowler hat topic seemed weird to me, but it doesn't seem wildly off-topic either. The socks & students debates have been rehashed a number of times but if people want to keep discussing, fine by me. I'll just skip it if I'm not interested. That's my basic point from last night: just live & let live. Avoid subjects you want to avoid. Participate in those that interest you. This seems to me to be a good recipe for everyone getting along. I don't know why it should be necessary for one group of people to step in & tell other people that their discussions are old hat & that they should just "shut up about it already." That seems counterproductive to me. It's a New Year, so can we all just agree to be nice to one another as Neil suggests? That's what I'd prefer anyway. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Jan 1 17:05:58 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 11:05:58 -0600 Subject: Debates on Romance Pairings (Statistics) Message-ID: <3A50B8F6.F8726EDC@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8295 Hi -- I just combed through the latest round of "shipper" posts to update the "Romance Pairings FAQ." I started with the message on 12/19 from Jim Flanagan about what that "kiss" meant -- this I think started the latest round of debates. I worked up through last night. For those that might be curious: H/H posts -- 48 R/H posts -- 44 Posts that were addressing the shipper debate but either an alternate ship, no shippers or not taking a side: 28 The R/H posts above also don't count the ones where R/H people were merely exchanging a fanfic recommendation or promoting a new R/H site upcoming in January. I would say it's all pretty darn even. Penny From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 18:14:06 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 12:14:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8296 >So, so far, *every* teenager who has been questioned by someone on this >group has said that they think Hermione likes Harry. The kiss sounds >more & more significant to me. > >What -- so you don't trust Hermione to pick the right boy for herself? > > >Penny Every Teenager I am a teenager, and i Don't think she likes Harry ;) Dont forget us younger list members Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 18:35:15 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 12:35:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teenagers, sex and culture Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8297 << Ebony, please do not take what I have to say as a slight on you and every other American. But you yourself have said that you don't know much about other cultures and, let's face it, how many American kids will have had the opportunity to experience what life over here is like ? Even if they have been to the UK, it's usually not possible to understand any culture unless you live in it for some considerable period of time. Don't forget that most kids think they know it all ( Whether they do or not is entirely another matter ). Naama has a good point and one that has played on my mind quite a bit when thinking about our discussions. Michelle >> Ok, it is often nice to bring a unique perspective to the group. To start, let me say that my father is British, lived there for his first 9 years of life, and moved back for a while, and I was born there, and lived there for a year(not that that has any influence on me) Anyways, my point is that, a LOT more Americans, esp. teenagers, want a European experience. I mean, I got mine growing up bc my dads side is all like that, and despite living in Texas for most of my life, I still have an odd british accent that everyone teases me for, mainly bc i grew up hearing my family talk. I also dont like the whole "lets's write off american kids bc they dont know what culture is" I think this is a common misconception Europeans have. Just travelling around the US there are different cultures, COMPLETELY different, just like in Europe. I mean, I live in Texas, and i get lots of spanish. I drive over to Mardi Gras or just to New Orleans for to hang out and I get French. Travel up North it is more British centered, with lots of colonial towns. I mean, America IS a mizture of all European CUltures, and for us younger groupers, we are required to take at LEAST 3 years of foreign language now, and as a part of History classes, in my state at least, we have to do "culture appreciation work" so we understand life in those nations at the time of study. So, my long, not necessarily a rant, is basically saying, it isnt really fair for either side of the alnatic to "criticise" the other without really thinking or knowing. I mean, to Quote you "Even if they have been to the UK, it's usually not possible to understand any culture unless you live in it for some considerable period of time". The same applie for the US, too many people think visiting here for 3 weeks is enough to get a basis for a whole nation, esp one as large as ours, where there are AT LEAST 50 dif cultures among us. I mean, Texas is SO different from Washington State, which is SO dif. from New York etc....I think too many people think that they get a grip from our country based upon movies Your brits out there, be glad us Americans, in general, don't...remember "the Patriot" HAPPY NEW YEARS(the REAL millenium ) Stephanie who strongly suspects this topic is dead, but hey, it is hard to keep up with 212 emails, which is how many were in my box theis morning! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 19:06:40 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 13:06:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Veritaserum Question Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8298 >This would fit the theory that Neville has had his memory modified because >he witnessed what happened to his parents. Moody's DADA classes may have >brought some of these memories to the surface causing his reaction in >class. Also - I know they use the term 'modified' but do they also use the >term 'erased' interchangeably with it? -Mo I dont personally Think that Neville witnessed what happened to his parents. I mean, wouldn't Barty Jr. have threatened to kill him to get info out of Mrs. or Mr. Longbottom? He KNOWS what happened to them, and so thats how he knew the curse name, and why he was so upset, in my theory. It is like someone tellnig you your parent died in a car crash, and then driving by one where a car is wrapped around the pole, and thinking "did that happen to mom?". But I also don't think modified means erased. Anyone remember/see MIB. When people saw something they werent supposed to see, they just replaced it with something else, a NEW memory of what happened. So probably, deep down, what really happened is still there, but when the people think about that day or whenever, the new one comes to mind. Like when Muggles see Hogwarts and they see an old castle....That just pops in their headover the image of the real castle, and they probably write it off as imagining what the castle USED to look like. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 19:19:52 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 13:19:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Classes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8299 >A mention of british sex-ed classes reminds me of a certain scene in The >Meaning of Life. > >Simon. Ha, I am SO glad you mentioned this Simon, it cracks me up, the movie was wonderful, particularly that specific part. Anyways, Just thought I would throw into the pool, that I live in American and DO NOT have sex Ed classes, nor did we even discuss this in health. I have only ever watched the infamous"changes" video, and as for maybe my area being a fluke, none of my other family members in the state and elsewhere have either, nor have youger siblings in Washington State....so yeah.... Stephanie Who realizes this was a pointless message, but i have been in lurkdon for about a week and went into posting withdrawl _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 19:25:12 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 19:25:12 -0000 Subject: Explanations please In-Reply-To: <92lque+lcqq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92qlio+v06s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8300 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kazza mazzoo" wrote: > Second of all, can anyone explain in PoA how Harry stops the > dementors > the first time round before he goes back in time with Hermione? > First > he thought it was his dad, but when he goes back he finds out it was > himself, and stops them .. .but how did he manage it the first time. > I think I have a bad case of Back To The Future here lol. It's like > round robin, without the start! Does anyone know? I'm over a hundred posts behind, so this may already be completely resolved, but I couldn't help tossing out something really silly that may help explain this. Remember the Bill and Ted movies? They are the best example I can think of for a super-simple example of this. At one point the two are locked in a cell at the police station (I think) and one of them asks the other to remind him to go back in time and put the key inside the cell, or something to that effect. As soon as he says this, they find the key, so then at some point after that they had to go back and actually put the key there. Does that make any sense? So Harry was saved by the future him, who had gone back in time and was standing on the other side of the lake, but the future him didn't realize that that's what had happened until the last moment, whereas Bill and Ted did it on purpose. kimberly From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 19:30:20 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 19:30:20 -0000 Subject: Teenagers and culture (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92qlsc+1005s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8301 I agree with Stephanie on this one. I don't claim to know everything about other cultures, but I DO want to learn about them. I know that Neil once said that many Brits are apathetic when it comes to religion but when on a tour of London recently we spent most of our time in Cathedrals. It seems to me that this wasn't exactly the most accurate potrayal of the British Culture (at least according to Neil's statement). There are many times when people do make assumptions about other countries. After all not all french people sit at corner cafes or have views of the Effiel tower out their windows. (Though I'd be willing to bet that some of my friends think so) I'd say that many American teenagers are just as cosmopolitan as those in other countries. But then again I'm probably partial. Scott From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 1 21:16:20 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:16:20 -0000 Subject: Class Schedule (rather long) In-Reply-To: <92omq4+8alj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92qs34+hsbk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8303 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > > 0_0 I'm very impressed here..... Is there a site where everybody has > archived the cooler things posted here, like those Minutes that > someone posted awhile back? The minutes and filk songs will soon be available as part of the Harry Potter Lexicon. I have created a new page, The Hogwarts Journal, which will feature humor, trivia, and things like that. I expect to have this finished and live sometime later today (Monday). As for schedules and things like that, you can find a lot of that already in the Lexicon (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon). There is a day-by-day calendar of the events in book 2 which includes when they have classes. The exam schedule from book 3 is also included. I am always adding new material to the Lexicon, too. Often, when something like Amy's schedule past comes along, I ask for permission to include it in the Lexicon (I've already emailed her on that score). Follow this path from the Lexicon main page: Wizarding World => Places => Hogwarts => Schedules That said, you should know that a group of very dedicated folks have been working very hard on an archive for this group's collective genius, called the FAQs. We're all hoping to see these published very soon! Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 1 21:52:25 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 21:52:25 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Teenagers, sex and culture References: Message-ID: <000901c0743d$291d7f80$a75a063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8304 Anyways, my point is that, a LOT more Americans, esp. teenagers, want a European experience. Just as I would like to experience America. I also dont like > the whole "lets's write off american kids bc they dont know what culture is" No - that's not what I was saying. I was trying to say that the things that happen - dating, marriage and the like happen in different ways and at different times of life in lots of different communities, not just in Europe and America. It definitely was not my intention to imply that American children don't know what culture is. I myself don't know what culture is ! All I know is that to say that a kiss means something because in one part of the world, certain rites of passage happen at perhaps an earlier stage doesn't necessarily mean it is so elsewhere. It just seemed to me that all the discussion about the kiss was based on the fact that in American society ( I've been trying to think of a better word than culture all day and I think that's the right one ) young people seem to date and kisses may mean more at a younger age than in the UK. But these characters and the writer are in the UK, therefore the kiss can only be cosidered to be of minor significance at this stage. My experience is that you can kiss a male friend on the cheek and argue with them and for it not to mean anything at all in terms of boyfriend/girlfriend things at that stage of adolescence. And that goes for most people in this country ( UK ). And it just so happens that the majority of contributions to the Kiss discussion are American. I think this is a common misconception Europeans have. Just travelling > around the US there are different cultures, COMPLETELY different, just like > in Europe. I mean, to Quote you "Even if they > have been to the UK, it's usually not possible to understand any culture > unless you live in it for some considerable period of time". The same > applie for the US, too many people think visiting here for 3 weeks is enough > to get a basis for a whole nation, esp one as large as ours, where there are > AT LEAST 50 dif cultures among us. I mean, Texas is SO different from > Washington State, which is SO dif. from New York etc....I think too many > people think that they get a grip from our country based upon movies One thing that living abroad taught me was that it is not possible to really truly say you know another country and their people, any country unless you spend a lot of time and assimilate yourself, mix and so forth. That's how I know that it is possible - there is a chance - that some - not all- might not be aware that things happen later as far as serious dating goes for most UK teenagers. I hope that clears up any misunderstandings. Michelle From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 1 22:25:11 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:25:11 -0000 Subject: Veritaserum Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92r047+9p53@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8305 Stephanie:" I dont personally Think that Neville witnessed what happened to his parents. " He didn't need to. He visits them at St. Mungo's and sees what happened to them. That's worse. S:"He KNOWS what happened to them, and so thats how he knew the curse name, and why he was so upset, in my theory." And a reasonable one, especially since he's seen the results too. From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Mon Jan 1 23:51:09 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 01:51:09 +0200 Subject: blue mugs and feminism in HP Message-ID: <004401c0744d$b8636780$e8a4003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8306 >My favorite HP present is the one I bought myself while I was Xmas >shopping: the big blue mug with the Hogwarts shield of arms. The above >mentioned friend showed that she doesn't know me as well as she thinks >she does, by expressing surprise that my favorite mug was 'so >masculine', well, I agree about the pictures... >Maya Crabtree wrote: >> My friend who'd gone to the USA brought me back a HP blue mug with >> the Hogwarts coat of arms on it (with a Crabtree&Evelyn's soap in >it...;-) ). > >Crabtree & Evelyn is whom I think of when I read your name.... :-) Well, I am not related in any way... ;-) although most fo my friends here think I am, at first, because me, my mom, my sister and my dad are the only Crabtrees in Isreal. My friends just don't know that it's not such a rare name in English-speaking countries...;-) Someone else wrote: >Interesting change: JKR didn't preserve the line "she [now, would be "he"] >wants to see you" . . . do dads not have that same tenderness that would >make a man who died in his son's infancy simply long to see his son grown >up? JKR has disappointingly conventional gender expectations at times . . . >whoa, I did NOT say that, don't want to be held responsible for starting >that argument! ;-) > you have...;-) I repeat again that sine you wrote this e-mail, about 3-4 days have passed, but I've not yet read the replies to this, so, I'll jsut go on..;-) I was discussing this subject as well with my rfriend a few days ago, and I mentioned that although at first her books seems relatively equlized as far as feminism, (Mcgonagall, Hermione) they are not at all so. I love them as they are, this issue doesn't reall BOTHER me, but if you DO look at it, it IS true that90% of the main characters are boys/men. The great wizards are men (Dumbldore and Voldermort) the four friends are men only (while Harry and Ron have no problem having a female best friend), Almost all the Weasley kids are boys, we know of all the boys in Harry's year from his house, from the girls, only 3, and the two who are not Hermione are not at all interesting. Okay, they are not very strong points, but they ARE something to go on...;-) although I must admit Hermione's character might be the opposite proof.... Maya From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 2 00:33:33 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 18:33:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore and Flamel (Was: Splitting Hairs) References: <01C07360.D118EC20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A5121DC.974C6CC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8307 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > I finally decided that > Flamel (the spelling isn't a mistake i looked it up and that's how it is > spelled) must had made the stone but was still working in alchemy, I believe > that there is more to alchemy than the actually making of the stone but deals > with how the magic goes to work through the stone and other such things that > deal with the stone. Albus could have been helping Famel to understand the > stone further, maybe Flamel creating the stone was part fluke. Achieving the Stone is not a fluke. The processes are intricate and complex and there is no way it could be an accident. But the study of alchemy is neverending--achieving the Stone is a by-product of a very advanced alchemist. So, yes, Flamel was undoubtedly still studying the minutiae of alchemical mysteries when Dumbledore was working with him. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 2 00:49:06 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 18:49:06 -0600 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please References: <92o3q9+llkn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A512581.747F526@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8308 Kazza mazzoo wrote: > Okay, so now what is OE?? LOL Or is that supposed to be IE? =D > I understand how the time turner works, but I still don't get how he > stopped the dementors the first time round before the time turner. It wasn't a "first time round." Harry, over with the dementors going through it the first time, was there at *exactly the same time* as Harry, who time-turned into the past. It all only happened once. Harry *experienced* it twice. Imagine a piece of thread, going straight from point A to point B, except for a little loop. A teeny person walking along the thread would first pass the spot where the thread overlapped itself making the loop, and then would continue on along the loop itself, and would then again pass the spot where the thread overlapped itself making the loop. It's only one spot, but the teeny person was at that spot twice. The time turner makes loops in the straight line of time. Did that help? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 2 00:52:31 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 18:52:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Explanations please References: <92o5c6+9qu9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A51264F.F2F19D89@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8309 Kazza mazzoo wrote: > Okay, I've gotten the hang of this parallel universe thingy now, but > here's a thought .. There's no need to invoke parallel universes. That's needless complexity. > If there were indeed 2 Harry's, one experience the Dementor's Kiss, > and the oher casting the Patronus Charm, which one was first? There were not two Harrys. There was one Harry. Neither was "first," they were at that point in time *simultaneously." Harry's personal time had been "looped" by the time-turner, so in his personal time, he experienced the event twice, but as the world in general goes through time, it all happened at once. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 2 00:58:10 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 18:58:10 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Let's be fair! (was the H/H kiss and other stuff . . .) References: <7c.fab858f.27814550@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A5127A2.F3361BFB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8310 mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > But while I accept that > each of us is entitled to their own opinion in this regard, I also feel that > this horse (meaning the whole *ship* horse, not just the H/H one) is dead and > we might as well quit beating it. You mean that big grease spot used to be a *horse*? --Amanda, no-shipper From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 2 01:02:05 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 19:02:05 -0600 Subject: Underage magic [HPforGrownups] (was Random Inconsistencies) References: <01C07433.AD529B00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A51288C.79FECC01@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8311 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > That's a good explanation Jim - but what about Lily coming home from that > dammed school and turning tea cups into tadpoles? Homework? Or just possibly, she did get cited, but Petunia's biased memory does not include Lily being curtailed, just Lily getting all the attention. --Amanda From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Jan 2 01:41:01 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 01:41:01 -0000 Subject: Is aunt Petunia a witch?? In-Reply-To: <004701c073ff$97b5c260$08a6003e@default> Message-ID: <92rbjd+1n7f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8312 Maya -- If Petunia is a "crypto-witch", then she has gone to great lengths to conceal her powers. She would have started covering up since the time she was 11 years old, if not before. I can't see any reason for her to have started doing this at such an early age. However, I think there is a lot of merit in the questions you have raised about Harry's maternal grandparents. Based on what we know from the books, it seems unlikely IMHO that Lily was fathered by Voldemort; however, I think it's entirely possible that she and Petunia could be descended from Griffindor (or even Slytherin) whether or not their parents were wizards. There's a family tree below showing how this could work. A possible clue in this matter is the unnaturally strong hostility that the Durselys display against James and Lily. When I say "unnatural hostility" I mean that it seems much harsher than can be explained by simple sibling rivalry and jealousy 10+ years after her sister's death. This unnatural hostility is probably the same thing that you are perceive as "overmuggling." This behavior may point to something that we don't yet know about the situation, such as Petunia blaming Lily for their parents' deaths. The hostility/overmuggling might also be the result of resentment that she feels because Harry's presence puts her family in danger. Petunia's *only* direct statement bearing on the wizarding status of her parents was to the effect that they were "so proud to have a witch in the family." Harry *assumes* that this means they were muggles and that Lily was simply a magical "sport" like Hermione. However, Petunia's statement is also logically consistent with several other possibilities: 1. Harry's grandparents (and Lily) were magical; Petunia is a squib. Petunia feels that the parents were less proud of her than of Lily. [However, this fails to explain the hostility/overmuggling.] 2. Harry's grandparents and Lily were magical; Lily is open about her powers, but Petunia chose to be a crypto-witch and is "overmuggling" to maintain the secret. [I consider this unlikely.] 3. Even if their parents were muggles, Lily and Petunia might have wizarding ancestors through an intervening squib/muggle line. In this way, Harry could still be descended from one or more of the Hogwartz Founders through his Muggle-born mother. Here's a family tree showing how this might work: Founder(s) (Wiz) Wiz Wiz . . . Wiz Squib Muggle Muggle . . Harry's Grandparents (Muggle) / \ Petunia (M) Lily (W) Dudley (M) Harry (W) This is just one possibility. Lily/Petunia's line may turn out to be more complicated than we had imagined. -JF --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Maya Crabtree" wrote: > >Am I the only one thinking aunt Petunia could be a witch? I think she is > but wouldn't admit it. That makes her 'overmuggling' it sometimes. I think > she is the person that knows why Harry has to be with the Dursleys. > > you know, that would explain many things. It could mean that in fact, Lily's > parent's could have been wizards, and that we were actually misled about the > muggle-decsent issue (although I am sure that if I reread that bit , I wil > find out that there is no room for error in this matter). nevertheless, I'll > go on with this theory - Assuming this is possible, this means that the > absurd (yet amusing) theory I once had about the "surprising" truly Amercian > style ending of "Voldemort was actually Lily's father / other relative" , > could actually be possible. I know this is a TERRIBLE idea for an ending, or > a secret hidden behind V's wish to murder harry's father and him, and only > killing Lily because hse defended Harry, but it IS possbile . I wonder if > this list ever discussed such an idea? I presented it to my friend, and she > even went as far as suggesting, that an in the story in the Greek Mythology, > Voldermort might have got a premonition or something of the sort, that his > own grandson (or whatever, they could be related in many different ways) is > going to be the only one who could really bring him down, and decided to > kill him, AND his father in order to prevent it happening. I know this is > hightly unlikely, and I would be very disappointed if JKR decide on > something even similar to it, but I'd just like your thoughts on this, just > the same. :-) > > Maya From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 2 01:52:42 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathy ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 01:52:42 -0000 Subject: the end of GoF In-Reply-To: <002801c073ed$a1d4dfe0$08a6003e@default> Message-ID: <92rc9a+bsmt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8313 > well, this may be cruel, but I wasn't in shock at all, I just thought > "that's it??" . > > In some way I WANTED it to be someone important who dies, after all the > noise that was made about it at the time... > > Maya I felt exactly the same way! In fact, I kept reading on pins and needles because I wasn't sure Ron was safe until the last page. (I was halfway convinced he would be run over by the Hogwarts Express at the very end.) Kathy (who still fears for Ron) From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 2 01:57:46 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathy ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 01:57:46 -0000 Subject: Wizardy books... In-Reply-To: <004c01c073ff$9d0b6bc0$08a6003e@default> Message-ID: <92rciq+umrg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8314 > >I just finished reading all four books again, played all the games I > >got for Christmas, never missed a question in the trivia game. I > >need another book and I need it now. Will someone suggest other > >titles that may keep me happy for the what seems like an unreasonable > >amount of time until book five arrives? Are there any other > >witch/wizard/magic type stories out there? This isn't witch/wizardry, but a wonderful fantasy with strong characters and terrific plot twists that I recommend to anyone who loves HP: The Thief by Megan Whalen Turner and its sequel, The Queen of Attolia (which I was reading this summer and actually sneaked away from my family reunion to sit in the woods and read--but no, I don't identify with Hermione at all!) Kathy From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 02:02:11 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 02:02:11 -0000 Subject: Let's be fair! (second attempt) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010101005443.00a94ba0@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <92rcr3+a6e7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8315 Wanted to just drop in and wish everyone a Happy New Year, but... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > I think you have stated this wonderfully. I am afraid that I was > distinctly misinterpreted by Ebony. I was not attempting to belittle those of you who choose to become deeply invested in the romance debate. However, I think there is a time at which the debate becomes meaningless; when both sides become so invested in their own point of view that no one is going to change it. That's why the debate becomes pointless to me. And I was attempting to state that *I* choose to not fully participate in it in order to avoid taking it personally myself and keep others from taking it personally. I think the Number of Students debate is meaningless. The numbers are "set-pieces" and do not affect the plot. Every time it gets dredged up I think "here we go again". Others hate the endless posts on merchandising. Still others do not like the posts on casting. A few expressed displeasure about speculating about whether or not characters are gay or not. When most of the list "chooses to not fully participate in (a thread) in order to avoid taking it personally (themselves) and keep others from taking it personally"... they do not respond at all. > * Note - this was my polite response. I wrote a distinctly irritated response (read: rant) which I posted on my personal weblog > (http://www.fuuko.com/blog/). If you would like to view it, please do so. Just be aware that it is a rant and if you have any comments (read: hate mail) on it, respond to me personally. *~*~*~*~*~* Hate mail? :::goggles::: Over fictional characters? Sorry, no offense... but not interested. --Ebony From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 2 02:16:00 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 18:16:00 -0800 Subject: OT: Oz is not Hogwarts In-Reply-To: <3A51288C.79FECC01@texas.net> References: <01C07433.AD529B00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101180457.00c03350@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8316 The following article is mainly a comparison of the Oz books to Narnia, but it also mentions JKR and Harry. http://salon.com/books/feature/2000/12/28/baum/index.html I've been a devotee of Oz since practically infancy, but I have to admit that the author has a point. JKR's world, though darker and more dangerous, makes for better literature. And at least Harry's friends are not in a rut like the unaging, unchanging Oz characters. Harry *will* someday grow up, get married, and be DADA teacher, and Hermione isn't condemmed to be a "little girl after all" forever. -- Dave From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 03:02:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:02:32 -0500 Subject: GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8317 Storm wrote: >Jo's doing quite well all things considered (I have, reluctantly, to allow >her >this). I just wish she'd remembered to put in 'my' two groups: lesbian/gay >and >PWD's (but you all know this already lol!) Yeah, I would've liked to see Alicia ask Katie to the Yule Ball. Come on, is EVERYONE at Hogwarts hetero? How 'bout that hunk Bill--what ear does he wear his earring in? Well, it's a thought for book 5. Although if JKR has any sense she pays NO attention to the wishes of her fans, even when they are as high-minded as ours . Re: PWD's, I don't get at all why they can't be wizards and go to Hogwarts. Just because we don't see any PWD's in the books so far, except Mad-eye (and Lupin I suppose . . . he has a magical equivalents of a physical disability), it doesn't mean there's an impossibility there. JKR makes it clear that magical ability is like a talent for drawing or perfect pitch; it is just a talent that some, not many, humans have in abundance. Why would it only occur among the TAB's (temporarily able-bodied)? Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 03:04:11 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:04:11 -0500 Subject: The death before Harry's Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8318 In GoF chapter 1, Voldemort tells Wormtail that they just have to kill one more person and then the way to Harry is clear. Who is he talking about? In fact three people die before he gets his shot at Harry (Frank, Crouch, Cedric), but none of those murders is planned at that point. I thought maybe he *was* already planning to kill Crouch, but later it doesn't seem that way; seems like he was planning to keep him under the Imperius Curse indefinitely and just had to kill him because of his escape. So who was he going to kill? Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 03:06:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:06:13 -0500 Subject: Is aunt Petunia a witch?? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8319 Maya wrote: >Assuming this is possible, this means that the >absurd (yet amusing) theory I once had about the "surprising" truly >Amercian >style ending of "Voldemort was actually Lily's father / other relative" , >could actually be possible. I know this is a TERRIBLE idea for an ending, >or >a secret hidden behind V's wish to murder harry's father and him, and only >killing Lily because hse defended Harry, but it IS possbile . . >I know this is >hightly unlikely, and I would be very disappointed if JKR decide on >something even similar to it, but I'd just like your thoughts on this, just >the same. :-) IMO, if she's a witch, she doesn't acknowledge it to herself. I.e. I don't think she's the thing protecting Harry. She is WAY too hostile. I do kind of like the idea of self-hating witches and wizards. If magical folk are a feared and downtrodden minority, stands to reason a lot of them would be in the closet to themselves as well as the rest of the world. Aunt P could be one such. Anyhoo, like you I'd be disappointed if V and Harry proved to be related, and I was happy to see JKR say, dismissively it seemed to me, "that would be a bit Star Wars, wouldn't it?" Amy - - - - - - - - - - "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 2 02:57:13 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 20:57:13 -0600 Subject: Apology; Admin Announcements Message-ID: <3A514389.B25447F9@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8320 Hi -- Hope everyone had a Happy New Year's Day! I "un-Christmas'ed" my house & went on a cleaning spree that left my husband speechless. NEW CO-MODERATOR NEEDED: It's that day of New Year's resolutions so it may be appropriate to let everyone know that I've decided to pull back somewhat from this group. You're not getting rid of me entirely, but there are several reasons why I think it might be a good idea for me to take at least a quasi-breather from heavy day-to-day involvement. I've developed pregnancy-induced carpal tunnel syndrome, which is causing me alot of sleeplessness & nighttime pain. My dr recommended scaling back on computer time at my apptmt last week. There are certain computer tasks that I don't intend or want to shirk (like continuing ASA and my FAQ obligations ... as well as my professional writing interests). So, on reflection, this group seems like a good place to make a cut-back. As I mentioned a couple of months back, I can't imagine how I could sustain the same involvement level once the baby arrives anyway. I asked then for some volunteers to help Melanie out with any "list-mom" duties until I might step back in more fully. A handful of people did express an interest in helping but indicated that they could not really commit to anything too significant time-wise. Unfortunately, our other official list-mom (Melanie) appears to me to be AWOL. So, if anyone is interested in officially being made a co-moderator, please let me know. At this point, I don't intend to remove myself as moderator, but there should be someone other than me that could be available to settle administrative matters as needed. The same handful of folks are hopefully still willing to help out as they can as well. It might be nice & ideal to have 2 or 3 co-moderators. SUBJECT HEADINGS -- Just another friendly reminder to please be sure to label your subject headings appropriately (changing them as you reply if needed). I know *I'll* be relying on them more & more. APOLOGY -- I think DrMM & Elizabeth were assuredly right about one thing in their posts last night when they said it looked as though feelings could get hurt sometime soon. Mine most definitely were. As I sit here, I can't tell you if that's justified or pregnancy-induced hormones gone haywire or post-holiday blues or some combination thereof. And, I suspect their feelings are also hurt. I think I lashed out too harshly & too personally in my response to the group last night. I usually try to avoid interjecting personal feelings into group admin posts since I am supposed to be the "list-mom." I do still stand by my basic point that I don't agree that it's okay for someone to step in & try to dictate whether on-topic discussions have run their course or not. But, it is definitely possible or probable that we all got our signals a bit crossed & misinterpreted what each other was saying. As I mentioned in a separate post this morning, I spent this morning adding in the relevant message numbers from this latest round of shipper debates into the Romance FAQ. In doing so, I at least re-skimmed them all. The total posts on the shipper debates (120 out of 963 from 12/19 to 12/31) seem to indicate that as many H/H posts got made (roughly) as R/H. So, I think both "camps" have the impression that the other side is more vocal because they're both being equally vocal ....if that makes *any* sense. The other thing I wanted to do was figure out if I had been overly-vehement, bullying or otherwise obnoxious in my own posts on this subject. Having read them again, I still don't really think so. Most all the posts on this subject were rather light-hearted or at least friendly up until yesterday. I left for my New Year's Eve plans chuckling because Kathy & I had finally reached a middle ground of agreement. I would like, however, to apologize to DrMM (whose post didn't offend me *at all* in any case anyway) and to Elizabeth. I definitely did not mean to offend you, either in my earlier shipper posts over the last 2 weeks or in my post yesterday. I am actually a very mild-mannered Ginny-in-the-canon type person in outward dealings with people, but I guess my Hermione-on-the-inside personality takes over sometimes. Penny From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 03:09:56 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:09:56 -0500 Subject: Merchandise art in general Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8321 Does anyone out there picture Harry's scar the way WB does, i.e. more horizontal than vertical? I thought it was so ridiculous that I went poring through the books for evidence that those people at WB are complete idiots. But you know, I can't find a single mention that tells you how the darn thing is oriented. I wonder, does JKR have creative control over the movie makeup dept.? Like Jim, I dislike the WB portrayals all in all. If I broke down and bought an item it'd be the sorting hat/book bookends. Those look fine. Now if only I had a kid, I'd have an excuse to buy these things. (So *that's* why people have kids!) ;-) Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 03:11:29 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:11:29 -0500 Subject: Underage magic Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8322 Maybe Harry took the owl from the MoM too seriously (CoS). After all, he doesn't get booted in PoA, and that was serious misuse of magic (maybe they knew Aunt Marge and privately applauded him?)--in retrospect we assume it's because of everyone's worry about Sirius Black, but maybe Harry wouldn't have been expelled in any case. It might be that the underage magic rule is largely bark and not much bite--they mostly use it to keep kids in line but seldom follow up. Amy --who didn't get any wool socks for Christmas or Hanukah and wishes she had-- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From alina at dial7.com Tue Jan 2 03:22:02 2001 From: alina at dial7.com (Alina) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:22:02 -0500 Subject: WB Merchandise Message-ID: <3A514959.923E8066@dial7.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8323 I agree! In one little figure they make Hermione's hair blonde! How absurd! Amy Z wrote: Does anyone out there picture Harry's scar the way WB does, i.e. more horizontal than vertical? I thought it was so ridiculous that I went poring through the books for evidence that those people at WB are complete idiots. But you know, I can't find a single mention that tells you how the darn thing is oriented. I wonder, does JKR have creative control over the movie makeup dept.? Like Jim, I dislike the WB portrayals all in all. If I broke down and bought an item it'd be the sorting hat/book bookends. Those look fine. Now if only I had a kid, I'd have an excuse to buy these things. (So *that's* why people have kids!) From alina at dial7.com Tue Jan 2 03:28:22 2001 From: alina at dial7.com (Alina) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:28:22 -0500 Subject: Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory Message-ID: <3A514AD6.42D99B6E@dial7.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8324 I found this on one site, and it had me intrigued. All information is copyrighted. When did Arthur and Molly attend Hogwarts? Okay, now we're getting into nitpicky stuff. I don't suppose this has any bearing on things, but it bugs ME since I'm trying to create a complete time line and right now there are BIG holes in it. I have narrowed down the dates for James, Lily, Sirius, Snape, and that whole crowd to the 1970's, which works okay, but it surprises me that there are no more specific clues in any of the books. We know a lot more details about other characters, even relatively minor ones. Charlie Weasley, for example, left school seven years before Harry got there, so we can determine what years he was there, when he was born, and so on. But the Marauders and their contemporaries are trickier to nail down, even though we are learning much about their exploits and adventures. So what? Well, I just get suspicious, that's all. If it seems like something's being left out or information is being withheld, I get curious. And here's why this question gets to me. There is one niggling little comment in GF that suggests to me that--brace yourself--there just might be TWO time lines going on here. Molly Weasley fondly recalls a man named Ogg being the groundskeeper when she went to Hogwarts. Now she's older than Sirius andLupin, granted, but not so much older that she would have gone to Hogwarts before Hagrid and Tom Riddle, which was fifty years ago. After Hagrid was expelled, however, he was given the groundskeeper position. How does this Ogg fellow fit into the picture then? Okay, this is very thin logic, since it assumes that the gamekeeper and the groundskeeper have always been one and the same person and it also assumes that Hagrid wasn't an assistant or anything for a while. But perhaps, just perhaps, we're dealing more than one time line. Maybe Molly and Arthur remember one time line, a time line that Voldemort changed somehow (changing time is a major no-no for wizards, we learn in PA, but I don't think that would have stopped him). Maybe Harry's big task is going to be to fix the past (Harry's present) so the future turns out the way it should, not the way it did the first time around (when Voldemort survived and somehow maybe even won). I'm not sure what I just said, but you get the drift... And probably the strongest evidence of some kind of time twisting going in the comment on CS that Voldemort is the last remaining ANCESTOR of Slalzar Slytherin. Some editions of the books have this "error" corrected, but other later editions have the word "ancestor" put back in. JKR herself suggested that the word ancestor might be used intentionally in an online chat session. We'll just have to see what happens next... Here is the website, and it is the same one on which I found the link to HPFG. http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/index.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 2 03:29:20 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:29:20 -0000 Subject: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions In-Reply-To: <3A50182E.647255E4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <92rhug+7fuj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8325 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > > > I tried to say this subtly in a previous post and I don't think I had > > much effect. > > There was a post from you earlier Elizabeth that was addressed > specifically to me (something about filing a "no evidence" motion). No > such thing in legal parlance I don't think, but I'm not a litigator. > > > It is my personal belief that the H/H shippers (however many of them > > there are) are indeed substantially more vocal than those with other > > ship preferences, including the non-shippers. In fact, I believe the > > H/H ship has been belabored. > > Just the H/H ship has been belabored? Really? Hmm, guess that shows > where your sympathies lie. > > > I do hope this doesn't make you all mad at me, but lately most of the > > list has been taken up with this subject and I'm tired of it and > > starting to feel downright bullied. New subjects have been introduced > > and still the ship debate rages ... > > The debate rages because people are interested in it. If you are *not* > interested in it, then there is simply no need for you to feel > "bullied." There's in fact a very very simple solution to your problem > Elizabeth, and it doesn't involve "scolding" the list or trying to > berate the list into abandoning a topic you find tiresome. > > This applies to everyone: USE YOUR DELETE KEYS if you don't want to read > a particular thread of conversation. I've asked & most all people are > complying with the request that subject headers be relevant. I can say > with virtual certainty that all the shipper debate posts of the last few > weeks have been very clearly labelled in the subject heading. > Accordingly, there is absolutely no need for anyone to proclaim that > they've been unwittingly subjected to a tiresome thread of messages that > they would have avoided had they been warned. If the subject heading > indicates it's something you don't want to read about, then delete the > message & move on. > > You are also always welcome (as you did) to introduce new topics of > discussion in the hopes that everyone will grow tired of the one you > wish would die a quick death. Personally, there are plenty of threads > that I skim or delete myself. I do usually at least open all the > messages & give them a quick skim on the off-chance that the subject > header is misleading. > > Not all topics are going to be of interest to everyone. But, you've > joined a *discussion* group. All *on-topic* discussions are therefore > welcome. Not everyone need participate in all ongoing discussions. > That is why I've tried to periodically remind people to be mindful of > their subject headings. Whether you love 'em or hate 'em though, the > shipper discussions are decidedly on-topic. They are not going to be > banned. I like to think I'm fair-minded though -- I've never asked that > any on-topic discussion be abandoned (even the ones that I personally > despise). > > As I mentioned in a message earlier this evening, I can also say that > the shipper debates (like some others) follow a reasonably predictable > pattern. They go strong for a week to 3 weeks & then they die a natural > death. They resurface 2-3 months later. So, never fear Elizabeth, I'm > sure your inbox won't be subjected to messages belaboring the H/H point > of view for much longer. But, it will not be because any one person > admonishes the rest of us to abandon a discussion we're enjoying. It > will be because the debates run their natural course for this cycle. > > Hopefully, I'm not offending anyone, but I have a very strong stance on > free speech & on the nature of internet discussion groups. You are in > no way a captive audience in this group. You're always free to avoid > certain messages, avoid all posts by certain individuals or avoid the > group as a whole, whenever & however you choose. > > Thanks for listening. > > Penny > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Penny, I'm having some trouble here distinguishing when you are speaking as list owner and when you are speaking as an individual on the list. Since you are such a strong advocate for H/H/, I think it's important that those roles be distinguished. I, too, have found many of those who favor H/H very vocal and very dogmatic. I am very vocal and dogmatic on certain issues, as well, but I would be the first to concede that I could definitely be wrong about JKR's intentions about romance. What I find mildly hilarious are those who say that even if Ron and Hermione become involved, their relationship will be eventually doomed.....so even if they are proven wrong (the H/Hers) they will be right. The problem with deleting threads one is not interested in (wholesale) is that many people sneak interesting comments into the dead horse threads (# of students and wand order DO jump to mind. However, I would be the last to discourage anyone from posting anything.....even if it is tiresome to some...it may be fascinating to others. Susan From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 03:30:15 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:30:15 -0000 Subject: fanfiction.net question (OT) Message-ID: <92ri07+duef@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8326 I want to upload the first chapter of a story that I've written on Fanfic.net but I have this feeling that it doesn't like me. I keep getting this message- "Upload aborted. The file you tried to upload was nither a html nor a text file. Please return to the previous screen and try again. Remember that your file must end in '.html', '.htm'. or '.txt'." Help! Can anyone with more expericence uploading stories help me? I have used Word and saved it using html. What else can I do??? Scott From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 2 03:45:19 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:45:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The death before Harry's References: Message-ID: <3A514ECE.9ED67182@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8327 Amy Z wrote: > In GoF chapter 1, Voldemort tells Wormtail that they just have to kill one > more person and then the way to Harry is clear. Who is he talking about? > In fact three people die before he gets his shot at Harry (Frank, Crouch, > Cedric), but none of those murders is planned at that point. I thought > maybe he *was* already planning to kill Crouch, but later it doesn't seem > that way; seems like he was planning to keep him under the Imperius Curse > indefinitely and just had to kill him because of his escape. So who was he > going to kill? Oh, good catch! I remember wondering about this myself, the last time I reread GoF, but by the time I got to the end I'd forgotten about it again. I have no idea, does anyone? --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 2 03:45:19 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:45:19 -0000 Subject: OT: Oz is not Hogwarts In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101180457.00c03350@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <92risf+ecpg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8328 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > The following article is mainly a comparison of the Oz books > to Narnia, but it also mentions JKR and Harry. > > http://salon.com/books/feature/2000/12/28/baum/index.html > > I've been a devotee of Oz since practically infancy, but I have to > admit that the author has a point. JKR's world, though darker and > more dangerous, makes for better literature. And at least Harry's > friends are not in a rut like the unaging, unchanging Oz characters. > Harry *will* someday grow up, get married, and be DADA teacher, > and Hermione isn't condemmed to be a "little girl after all" forever. > > > > -- Dave Very interesting article, Dave, and not really off topic. I like Oz, and love the movie, but don't really think the books are that good. The author makes the point that some don't take C.S. Lewis as seriously because of the strong Christian content. Who else has read Lewis' trilogy? -- Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength -- my favorite is Perelandra... Lewis really highlights the conflict between pagans and Christians, which I find quite interesting...He basically says that paganism is passion without morality, which of course is not exactly true. My personal opinion (which is controversial) is that Lewis and Tolkien were both pagans at heart. Anyway, the Narnia Chronicles are wonderful. My three year old loves the books that are written (and gorgeously illustrated by Deborah Maze) for kids aged 4 - 6, and we are slowly reading the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (original adult version) chapter by chapter. I can't decide which book is my favorite -- it's not the Silver Chair or the Last Battle..that's as far as I have gotten. Anyway, despite JKR's repeated assertions that she was NOT influenced by Tolkien, I think she has written a history of another world in the same way JRRT did. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 2 03:48:23 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 03:48:23 -0000 Subject: Like ships that pass in the night... In-Reply-To: <20010101122114.23510.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <92rj27+o4tb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8329 Neil says: > > I think one of the the main reasons romantic > > pairings are such an enduring topic here is that > > there is a *huge* subculture of HP fanfiction > > dealing with relationships between the characters > > and, inevitably, some of that has encroached upon > > this group. Anyone who has joined our Sunday chats > > recently will have noticed that shipping and fanfic > > now feature heavily there (and it goes way beyond > > H/He and R/He, I can assure you!). A lot of the > > 'clique' talk goes over my head, because I've only > > read a smattering of fanfic, but I either ride it > > out (and maybe pick up some recommendations on the > > best fanfics to read), attempt to change the subject > > or log off. What I don't do is say "shut up and > > talk about something else." > > > > Now... let's all join hands and skip around in a Ah, that's helpful, Neil. I think that a lot of the list tone derives from the subjects that come up in chat. As someone who has never read any fan fiction, I feel somewhat alienated from that. Oh, well.... Susan From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 2 03:50:16 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:50:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise art in general References: Message-ID: <3A514FF8.B9719F4C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8330 Amy Z wrote: > Does anyone out there picture Harry's scar the way WB does, i.e. more > horizontal than vertical? I thought it was so ridiculous that I went poring > through the books for evidence that those people at WB are complete idiots. > But you know, I can't find a single mention that tells you how the darn > thing is oriented. I think most people figured it went up and down, simply because that's the way lightning bolts happen when we see them--clouds to earth. Vertical. I suspect the artists tilted it to make it more visible under the must-be-untidy hair. The little Harry on my wonderful new mobile has the scar at a 45-degree angle, trying to please both sides, I suppose. > if only I had a kid, I'd have an excuse to buy these things. (So *that's* > why people have kids!) Yup. You should see the wonderful doll furniture I got (for my daughter, you understand...) on eBay.... --Amanda From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 2 05:05:59 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:05:59 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101210350.00df8100@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8331 At 10:02 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Amy Z wrote: >Come on, >is EVERYONE at Hogwarts hetero? How 'bout that hunk Bill--what ear does he >wear his earring in? Oh, don't spoil it for us Bill/Fleur shippers! :) I might just point out that Sinistra's gender is uncertain -- Maybe Moody danced with a *male* astronomy teacher at the Yule Ball! -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 2 05:11:45 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:11:45 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory In-Reply-To: <3A514AD6.42D99B6E@dial7.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101210711.00e023e0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8332 At 10:28 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Alina wrote: >And probably the >strongest evidence of some kind of time twisting going in the comment >on CS that Voldemort is the last remaining ANCESTOR of Slalzar >Slytherin. Some editions of the books have this "error" corrected, but >other later editions have the word "ancestor" put back in. JKR herself >suggested that the word ancestor might be used intentionally in an >online chat session. This is quite a revelation! If she said "might", then I'd say it *is*, or else she would have flat out denied it! Now we're back to my theory that Jo saw the "Ouroboros" episode of _Red Dwarf_ and is now having Voldy pull the same space-time continuum-contorting stunt! (No wonder Slytherin's symbol is a serpent -- A serpent with its tail in its mouth!!) -- Dave From john at walton.to Tue Jan 2 05:15:38 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:15:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101210711.00e023e0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8333 Dave Hardenbrook said: > This is quite a revelation! If she said "might", then I'd say it *is*, or > else > she would have flat out denied it! Now we're back to my theory that > Jo saw the "Ouroboros" episode of _Red Dwarf_ and is now having > Voldy pull the same space-time continuum-contorting stunt! > (No wonder Slytherin's symbol is a serpent -- A serpent with its tail in > its mouth!!) Isn't "Ouroboros" used somewhere in HP? Or some other pun on the Latinate root "our-"? --John From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 2 05:45:35 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:45:35 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT: Oz is not Hogwarts In-Reply-To: <92risf+ecpg@eGroups.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101180457.00c03350@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101211305.00df88c0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8334 At 03:45 AM 1/2/01 +0000, Susan McGee wrote: >Very interesting article, Dave, and not really off topic. I like Oz, >and love the movie, but don't really think the books are that good. The strength and weakness of the Oz books is oddly enough the same as the strength and weakness of the Sid and Marty Krofft TV shows ( ring a bell, fellow GenX-ers? :) ), i.e. the strength is the imagintiveness (sometimes bordering on psychadelic) of the worlds they've created; the weakness is lack of strong plot or characterization. I always loved the Oz books, but other authors, especially Jane Austen and Jo Rowling have shown me what good writing is, and now I'm spoilt. What's really tragic about Oz IMHO is that its defenders tend to be very rightous about maintaining "the beloved status quo". Any change in Oz, good or bad, is _verboten_. In Oz, Cedric could not have died, or Neville's parents reduced to vegetables, but neither could Harry ever grow up and fill his intended niche in the wizarding world. The Oz paradigm of eternal non-aging and no change may actually be a self-inflicted fatal wound, because it requires all Oz books to go in circles without anything with lasting effects ever transpiring. Hogwarts is a vibrant, dynamic universe. Oz is in a rut. FWIW, I've written my own Oz books, and they have been condemned by many in the Oz establishment (though they're not yet published) because in them all sorts of new things occur -- Dorothy grows up and persues a career, Ozma falls in love and wins character-building battles against truly threatening adversaries, and other "horrible" things happen that strike horror in the hearts of Oz "purists", but (I hope) will revitalize a beloved fantasy world of my youth that I don't wish to see die of its own shortcomings. -- Dave From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Tue Jan 2 05:39:39 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 05:39:39 -0000 Subject: Number of Students, who goes to school? In-Reply-To: <92kudg+uctf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92rpir+k840@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8335 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > > Storm wrote... > > References Amy! References (please)> > Amy wrote: > I know, I know...and I'll try to do better in the future. I've been > at my parents for a week now, using their computer. The only HP book > I have with me is SS, which I've been reading to pick up more little > details. > > Storm wrote: > > And where in CoS does it say the 200 Slytherin students? I can't > find it in my edition at all. The description on p.125/6, COS "the > rouge bludger' (which is where I assume you are looking) doesn't give > any numbers.< > Amy wrote: > To be honest, I have no idea...I thought I had seen it in a previous > email on this subject. Hi guys-- You might have seen it in one of my posts, Amy. I know I've brought it up here before. Since I have this info right at my fingertips, thought I'd share: That statement is in PoA, Ch. 15, "The Quidditch Final", p. 305 in the US version. I'll just include it for you here: "They walked out onto the field to a tidal wave of noise. Three-quarters of the crowd was wearing scarlet rosettes, waving scarlet flags with the Gryffindor lion upon them, or brandishing banners with slogans like "GO GRYFFINDOR!" and "LIONS FOR THE CUP!" Behind the Slytherin goal posts, however, two hundred people were wearing green; the silver serpent of Slytherin glittered on their flags, and Professor Snape sat in the very front row, wearing green like everyone else, and a very grim smile." This very statement is the main reason I have always pictured around 800 students, so JKR saying 1000 wasn't much more of a stretch for me. Now off to catch up. Bear with me, I'm only about five digests behind, and desperately trying to reply to the "H/H shippers clues" posts... Kelley From drmm at fuuko.com Tue Jan 2 06:12:03 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:12:03 -0600 Subject: For Snape fans . . . Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010102000826.00a9a190@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8336 I know there are several Snape fans on this list so I thought I'd let people know that I've set up a mailing list (mainly for adults) for his character. If you'd like to join you can either go to the egroups page at http://www.egroups.com/group/Snapefans or send an e-mail to Snapefans-subscribe at egroups.com. You are now returned to your regular Harry Potter discussion . . . DrMM *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Magic Knight Rayearth OAV's From vderark at bccs.org Tue Jan 2 06:26:15 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 06:26:15 -0000 Subject: Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory In-Reply-To: <3A514AD6.42D99B6E@dial7.com> Message-ID: <92rsa7+7p8t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8337 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Alina wrote: > Riddle, which was fifty years ago. After Hagrid was expelled, however, > he was given the groundskeeper position. How does this Ogg fellow fit > into the picture then? Okay, this is very thin logic, since it assumes > that the gamekeeper and the groundskeeper have always been one and the > same person and it also assumes that Hagrid wasn't an assistant or > anything for a while. Notice that I admit that it's thin logic. I've had a number of people point out to me that Hagrid was the assistant for a while first, so what's the big deal. I know that's possible, even probable. The point is that it COULD also be evidence of something else going on. The REALLY intriguing piece of this puzzle is the ancestor/descendent bit. > Here is the website, and it is the same one on which I found the link to HPFG. Penny, do I get some sort of commission on this? > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/index.html I think I'll bookmark that URL. Sounds interesting ;) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From john at walton.to Tue Jan 2 06:26:26 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 01:26:26 -0500 Subject: St Mungo (OT) AFK & well-wishes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8338 ::looks around for rogue holidays which might spring up unnoticed:: Well, I think now's a safe time to say that I hope everyone had a Happy Ethnic- Faith- or Seasonal-based Joyous Occasion with friends, family and any Significant Others. I certainly had a ball, and I'm just packing my bags to go back to St Andrews now -- so I'll be AFK for a few days. Those of you participating in the mini SoT discussion offlist, that'll be why I won't be there :) I'm flying British Airways...and do you want to know how miffed I'll be if some madman tries to crash MY flight? To pull this wildly ON TOPIC, I did a bit of research into St Mungo (okay, I was flipping through my copy of Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable while waiting for a download...) and found out that he's the same person as St Kentigern, who was heavily involved in...you guessed it, southern and central Scotland, as well as the NW of England. I just wanted to share ::grin:: --John, signing off from the NY 'burbs ========================================= John Walton? john at walton.to Campaign Spending: $2 billion Daddy's bill for Yale: $100k or so New Driver's License after becoming Governor: free Having your little brother fix the election for you: Priceless ========================================= From john at walton.to Tue Jan 2 06:45:34 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 01:45:34 -0500 Subject: (OT) Lloyd Webber (was: Re: Another Anti-HP Site) In-Reply-To: <001a01c07202$d1a7a5a0$dac54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8339 Caius Marcius said: > Generally, one finds that only barbarians exult in their ignorance. > > Good night, John boy. Malheureusement, 'tis not ignorance, but over-exposure at a young age, that has led to my mild dislike of Andrew Lloyd-Photocopier's musicals. Being the only person in school who could sing the tenor parts which he loves to put in, I received the delightful task of singing "Joseph" in "Joseph...", the quasi-Narrator in "Evita" in the same year. I shall never be the same again ::sob:: Oh, and sorry for the late reply -- I found this in the "Drafts" folder :) --John From cassandraclaire at mail.com Tue Jan 2 07:55:34 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 07:55:34 -0000 Subject: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions In-Reply-To: <92rhug+7fuj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92s1hm+e2hq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8340 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > Penny, I'm having some trouble here distinguishing when you > are speaking as list owner and when you are speaking as an individual > on the list. > > Since you are such a strong advocate for H/H/, I think it's important > that those roles be distinguished. > > I, too, have found many of those who favor H/H very vocal and very > dogmatic. I am very vocal and dogmatic on certain issues, as well, > but I would be the first to concede that I could definitely be wrong > about JKR's intentions about romance. What I find mildly hilarious > are those who say that even if Ron and Hermione become involved, > their relationship will be eventually doomed.....so even if they are proven wrong (the H/Hers) they will be right. --------------- I think it was pretty clear Penny was speaking as list owner when she made that post. (Also, you might want to read her later clarification/apology.) All she was saying was that she didn't think it was appropriate for people to express boredom with/try to suppress any kind of on-topic discussion. I am afraid that I don't find that the H/H 'ers (so to speak) are any more vocal or dogmatic than the R/H ers or even the no-shippers. Penny went through the list earlier and numerically speaking, the difference in number between the R/H shippers posts and the H/H shippers posts is so small as to be meaningless. (4 messages or so.) So are we simply saying here that the H/H shippers' posts are...longer? I admit to some confusion on that point. I rarely post anything here, preferring to lurk, but lately I've jumped in with a few H/H posts, less because I'm a die-hard H/H shipper (*coughs* D/H!) but mostly because it seemed to me that the H/H camp was far, far outnumbered by the R/H camp and I thought I would toss my two knutes in. I would characterize the stances of both the H/H shippers *and* the R/H shippers onlist as fairly inflexible. And I don't, frankly, see either side as being more stubborn or intractable than the other. The H/H camp tends to dismiss textual items that the R/H camp sees as wildly significant (Hermione scowls at Fleur!) The R/H camp does exactly the same thing. (The infamous kiss on the cheek at the end of GoF!). This does not, in my opinion, mean that the discussions should be suppressed or abandoned. The goal of discussion, even between those who disagree, is not necessarily to *change* the other person's viewpoint. It's not about winning. Finally, I don't really think any H/H ers have said that should Ron and Hermione get together in the canon, their relationship is de facto doomed. I think it has been said that should Ron and Hermione get together in the canon, they would *hope* it was doomed, so that Harry and Hermione could get together later. *grins* Which is their business. We all have our hopes for the characters. I hope Draco will reform himself. Simon hopes Harry will get together with Hedwig. Matter of personal preference, isn't it? Cassandra From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 09:48:14 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:48:14 -0000 Subject: Horizontal or Vertical? (was Merchandise art in general) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92s84u+o1h7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8341 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > Does anyone out there picture Harry's scar the way WB does, i.e. more > horizontal than vertical? I thought it was so ridiculous that I went poring > through the books for evidence that those people at WB are complete idiots. > But you know, I can't find a single mention that tells you how the darn > thing is oriented. I wonder, does JKR have creative control over the movie > makeup dept.? > You know, when I read the books I pictured the scar as horizontal. I don't know why, I just did (still do, as a matter of fact). Isn't that the way you would imagine a real lightening - jagging *across* the sky? Anyway, I didn't even know that other people would think of it as vertical until I saw it mentioned here. Naama From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Tue Jan 2 09:28:42 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:28:42 +0200 Subject: Ships and new Questions Message-ID: <005701c074ab$75b68760$7ead003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8342 >Ah ... in short: she bought him expensive birthday gifts in CoS, PoA & >GoF (granted, we don't even know when Ron's birthday *is* or what >Hermione might be buying him); That always bothered me - I would like to know when Ron's nd Hermione's Biortjdays are! I would like to know how they all manage to do their Christmas shopping in Hogsmeasde without the other two noticing. I would like to know how they mnaged to buy things before they were alowed to go to (or even knew of) Hogsmeade. I would like to know how the teachers spend all their time in the school, and never ever take vacations during the year (it would be possible to take turns in holidays over the Christmas holidays) to visit family or friends. I know they are so engrossed in the school, but still... they do come from SOME previous background I should imagine.... Maybe all their friends are at Hogsmeade, but that's another questions I have - it's not described as a very BIG village, it is only a village, and accordging to GoF , does not take too long to get from one side of it to the other... so - where do all the rest of the Wizards live? either in secluded places like the Burrow. Or, amongst Muggles. Why would they live amongst Muggles? where do they all work? My friends aegued with me that there are plenty of positions at the ministry, and in Hogsmeade, or in Diagon Alley... Still, it seems strange that if you're a Wizard you could either be a merchant, a ministry worker or a teacher (or what Bill/Charlie do).... since you've guys have probably discussed this, I expect some of you have very simple ready answers in your head, reminding me of all the details I am forgetting...;-) >she chose to spend all or the vast >majority of her time with Harry rather than Ron during the H/R fight; yes, but Harry was the one in need of help! He was tangled in all this tournament thing, and since the whole school was against him he had no one else to be with! whereas Ron always had his brothers and if he wanted, the rest of the whole school, to bond with...;-) Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Tue Jan 2 09:50:49 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:50:49 +0200 Subject: number of students Message-ID: <005801c074ab$76f57000$7ead003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8343 >What about Charms? Two or three classes a week per house per level? >That's 28 classes a week if it's once a week, 56 if it's twice a >week, etc. That's not possible for poor old Flitwick, I'm thinking. Well, I always thought that since they live at the school (not that I have ever been to a boarding school) they would probably study till relatively late. Not till the evening, but probably well into the afternoon. And after all, each lessons should take about 45 mins, right? And maybe SOME charms classes, for example, are double? Maybe some classes take Herbology separately? Maybe some take Care of Magical Creatures separately? And if we're alredy here, I never understood why they take that class "with the Slytherins" . Surely, there must be some Hufflpuffs and some Ravenclaws who go to that class? Surely it sounds strange that almost all the Gryffindors chose Divination together? and now for just another little unrelated thread... Michelle wrote: >The nearest thing I know is that Greeks pin money on the bride. But >there is no equivalent to the Dollar Dance as far as I know. Eastern originated communities do that as well, here in Israel. Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Tue Jan 2 10:02:16 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:02:16 +0200 Subject: Idenifying with the characters Message-ID: <005901c074ab$78007760$7ead003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8344 > for heaven's sake >. . . sharing a train compartment with HP for the first time must've been >like being in an elevator with Robert Redford, Abraham Lincoln, and Jesus >all at once (sorry for the U.S. slant). Hermione, Ron, Fred and George managed it well enough. > his bitterness and >wish for revenge against SB. You know, that was actually hard to me to accept. It is very logical why he should feel that way, it is very justified, but seeing him move suddenly to those feeligns was strange for me... Maya > >I do think the commercialization is a shame (don't even get me started on >Chris "Home Alone 2" Columbus as director of OUR FILM), but just the same I >have one suggestion for the turners-out of HP stuff. The upcoming video >game, I've heard, is an adventure game. I think they are missing the boat >bigtime. there's a computer game???? This is the first I've heard of it. How horrible.... Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Tue Jan 2 10:20:32 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:20:32 +0200 Subject: Hebrew Unicode Message-ID: <005b01c074ab$79be05e0$7ead003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8345 >Computers ARE funny sometimes! This message still is in some iso-8859-8 and on >my computer shows the letters that should be Swedish as vav and one of the signs >that indicate an'i' sound, a single dot - I never can learn their real names, sorry :-) It's impressive that you even know about VAV. most people don't. the 'i' sound is called "Yud" or "Yod" (in it's more formal name). VAV can either act as an equivalent to "U" , or as a "V" sound. YUD can be either "i" or "y". This must be very uninteresting to most of you...;-) So I won't go on... Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Tue Jan 2 10:52:10 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:52:10 +0200 Subject: Various subs Message-ID: <005c01c074ab$7a9fda60$7ead003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8346 > So I'd say we might see >less of the friends as the books go on... meaning they won't be at >Harry's side as much. Or might not be able to. I agree with that guess, but it is very disappointing for me. That is a big part of what made me like GoF less than the fiest three. I was more aching to "know what happens next" after PoA than after GoF! Even though, #4 DOES have a more suspence ending... >YES! I adore Hagrid and totally agree with the above. I think >he's >underused in fanfic as well... and do think we'll be seeing a lot >more of him in the last 3 books. I do hope that the last three books still take place mostly at Hogwarts and not in some other Wizarding world places, where the good fight the bad.... ;-) Ebony wrote: >I have no idea what a Ford Anglia is or looks like... even after Neil >told me in chat this summer. I feel very embarrassed about this >fact, seeing as half my family works for Ford Motor Company and the >extended lot of us drive nothing but Ford cars. I've loved Fords every since The HitchHiker's guied to the Galaxy. whenever we're on a family vacation in England we take a Ford (this time not, for some reason). Maya From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Tue Jan 2 10:58:37 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 12:58:37 +0200 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <005d01c074ab$7b8ad6a0$7ead003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 8347 >Ok....Neil, folks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I always pictured a bowler as the hat that Mr. Banks wears in the Mary Poppins, the one the Bankers "pop". > >On a different note, watched WWonka and the Chocolate factory (always makes me want chocolate, dang, and all out too!), and there was a slimey teacher in there played by (hunts up the paper she wrote it on...aha!) David Battley. As he was around in the 70's, do you think there is any chance that his looks are what Snape was based on? He played the teacher who was making "wart remover" with the chemicals.... > ooohh.. two out of the group on my favourite films, which I can recite anytime, and have recorded, (and watched an unimaginable number of times). About the actor - well, I never thiught of Snape as SO lean and slender.... I never think of him as THAT ugly. The greasy hair's close enought though, but the voice - well it's greasy enough as well, but Snape CAN be subtle many times, andI doubt if that teacher character could. Maya From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 2 14:06:18 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 14:06:18 -0000 Subject: Skeeter of the Daily Prophet (filk) Message-ID: <92sn8q+il0j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8348 Skeeter of the Daily Prophet (to the title song from Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera) (Scene: A Chamber in Hogwarts. Enter Harry, Hagrid and Hermione) HARRY: My owl he bought to me the daily news And after reading it I blew a fuse For then I realized with a sickened thrill That Skeeter of the Daily Prophet had raised again her quill HAGRID: She came and spoke with me, led me astray Next thing I knew she wrote a Skrewt expose She made me seem like some type of Giant clown That Skeeter of the Daily Prophet wants to take me down SKEETER (emerging from a broom closet) Now for that interview Please step inside I'll twist each word askew You'll end up fried My loyal readership wants nothing less That to Skeeter of the Daily Prophet each secret you'll confess (re-enters closet) HARRY, HAGRID, HERMIONE She's there, Rita Skeeter of the Prophet! Beware, Rita Skeeter of the Prophet! HERMIONE In the last edition of her cheap gazette That woman pictured me in bright scarlet This time, sweet Rita dear, you've gone too far And Skeeter of the Daily Prophet will soon be set ajar! (Hermione transfigures a couple of pincushions into a butterfly net and a large glass jar. Laughing demonically, she enters the broom closet) - CMC From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 16:10:01 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 16:10:01 -0000 Subject: Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101210711.00e023e0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <92sugp+7vuh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8349 I find this thread *extremely* fascinating! Might not even need to know about the Veritaserum now... to verify the past, all one would have to do is to go back in time and actually witness it... even if one's memory was altered, he/she couldn't deny the proof of his/her own eyes... yes! :::rubs hands together::: Is wotan on this list? She's presented an alternate year one scenario in one of her fics. And I've said it before, but one of the best "time travel" novels I've ever read is Orson Scott Card's "Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus". But then one gets into questions of relativism. Exactly which past is the desired/desirable outcome? This was what fascinated me so much about Pastwatch--Card's theory seems to be that if you go back in time you don't just change the future... the "ripple effect" causes the *entire* future to disappear. So if Harry goes back in time and saves his parents, for instance, the post-1981 "future" as we know it in canon would completely cease to exist. Fascinating stuff. Now, all I need to know is if a Time-Turner is only used for short-range time travel... how many turns would it take to go back several years? --Ebony --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 10:28 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Alina wrote: > >And probably the > >strongest evidence of some kind of time twisting going in the comment > >on CS that Voldemort is the last remaining ANCESTOR of Slalzar > >Slytherin. Some editions of the books have this "error" corrected, but > >other later editions have the word "ancestor" put back in. JKR herself > >suggested that the word ancestor might be used intentionally in an > >online chat session. > > This is quite a revelation! If she said "might", then I'd say it *is*, or else > she would have flat out denied it! Now we're back to my theory that > Jo saw the "Ouroboros" episode of _Red Dwarf_ and is now having > Voldy pull the same space-time continuum-contorting stunt! > (No wonder Slytherin's symbol is a serpent -- A serpent with its tail in > its mouth!!) > > > > -- Dave From relliott at jvlnet.com Tue Jan 2 16:59:12 2001 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 10:59:12 -0600 Subject: Harry and his emotions References: <978431623.27842@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000401c074dd$55a44fc0$70b291d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8350 In GoF, Harry stays very strong and does not break down and cry. Let me set the stage: "Mrs. Weasley set down the potion down on the bedside table, bent down, and put her arms around Harry. He had no memory of ever being hugged like this, as though by a mother. The full weight of everything he had seen that night seemed to fall in upon him as Mrs. Weasley held him to her. His mother's face, his father's voice, the sight of Cedric..." (American edition) It seems to me that Harry wants to cry and vent his emotions about what has just happened to him but is fighting it. The question is: When do you think Harry will actually break down and cry about the situation he has been placed in? He has had an enormous amount of stress for a child/teenager should have to endure. My thought, when Dumbledore sacrifices his life to save Harry may be a breaking point for him. From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 2 17:16:11 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:16:11 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates Message-ID: <92t2cr+tvte@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8351 There's been a lot of brouhaha about Harry Potter being supposedly blasphemous or satanic because it contains magic. I think this is nonsense, and here's something that puts the debate into perspective and shows that HP is only under attack because it's popular. In Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy (which I'm currently reading the third book of, The Amber Spyglass, the first two being Northern Lights and The Subtle Knife), no less weighty a subject is tackled than a war against GOD (the Authority), who seems to be being set up as a lying villain. Now, I have no problem with this idea, not being very religious, but if I were a devout Christian I think I would probably have shut the book and stopped reading at some point. However, I haven't heard anything about fundamentalist groups trying to ban this trilogy! I don't know precisely how popular it is, but I certainly haven't heard a murmur against it. Something to think about. Keith From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Jan 2 17:30:19 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 2 Jan 2001 09:30:19 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry and his emotions Message-ID: <20010102173019.19057.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8352 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 17:38:18 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:38:18 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <92t2cr+tvte@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92t3ma+ua87@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8353 Keith wrote: "In Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy (which I'm currently reading the third book of, The Amber Spyglass, the first two being Northern Lights and The Subtle Knife), no less weighty a subject is tackled than a war against GOD (the Authority), who seems to be being set up as a lying villain" Gee, that does seem to be a bit more blasphemous than the Harry Potter storys which at least IMO have no basis for religious controversy. Maybe this will give you an idea of the type of people who are anti- Harry-- I know a family who are Pentecostal and have NEVER allowed their children to believe in Santa Claus. They feel that if the kids realise Santa isn't real they will question just what IS real, including God. Talk about supressing Imagination! I don't really understand that, but then again I don't see how faith can exist without imagination... Scott NB: If you have similar views as are expressed above please know that I'm not trying to offend you. I was simply giving an example of the type of people who MIGHT be inclined to have an "Anti-Harry" attitude. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Jan 2 17:32:39 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 2 Jan 2001 09:32:39 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP religion debates Message-ID: <20010102173239.19060.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8354 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 17:49:24 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:49:24 -0000 Subject: The death before Harry's In-Reply-To: <3A514ECE.9ED67182@texas.net> Message-ID: <92t4b4+ch22@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8355 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, > Amy Z wrote: > > > In GoF chapter 1, Voldemort tells Wormtail that they just have to kill one > > more person and then the way to Harry is clear. Who is he talking about? Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Oh, good catch! I remember wondering about this myself, the last time I reread > GoF, but by the time I got to the end I'd forgotten about it again. I have no > idea, does anyone? I don't have the book where I can get to it at the moment, but had Bertha Jorkins already died when the statement was made? That's the only other death I can think of that you hadn't mentioned. Any other ideas? kimberly From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Jan 2 17:53:09 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 18:53:09 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: Underage magic - socks OT References: Message-ID: <00b701c074e5$d18bb260$18c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8356 You could knit you a pair waiting for the next book! LOL catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Amy Z Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 2 januari 2001 04:11 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: Underage magic Maybe Harry took the owl from the MoM too seriously (CoS). After all, he doesn't get booted in PoA, and that was serious misuse of magic (maybe they knew Aunt Marge and privately applauded him?)--in retrospect we assume it's because of everyone's worry about Sirius Black, but maybe Harry wouldn't have been expelled in any case. It might be that the underage magic rule is largely bark and not much bite--they mostly use it to keep kids in line but seldom follow up. Amy --who didn't get any wool socks for Christmas or Hanukah and wishes she had-- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Jan 2 18:08:56 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:08:56 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups]OT: Oz is not Hogwarts References: <92risf+ecpg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00c101c074e7$4c5cee40$18c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8357 Pagan/Christian Susan, I see it like the two authors were a mixture, that in terms of religion history didn't exist yet. In the Inklings group they had a friend - a lawyer - who definitely was, I have forgotten his name and don't own the book I found it in, looked through it in a New Age book shop some time ago. I think the title was just The Inklings. catrina ---- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Susan McGee Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 2 januari 2001 04:45 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT: Oz is not Hogwarts --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > The following article is mainly a comparison of the Oz books > to Narnia, but it also mentions JKR and Harry. > > http://salon.com/books/feature/2000/12/28/baum/index.html > > I've been a devotee of Oz since practically infancy, but I have to > admit that the author has a point. JKR's world, though darker and > more dangerous, makes for better literature. And at least Harry's > friends are not in a rut like the unaging, unchanging Oz characters. > Harry *will* someday grow up, get married, and be DADA teacher, > and Hermione isn't condemmed to be a "little girl after all" forever. > > > > -- Dave Very interesting article, Dave, and not really off topic. I like Oz, and love the movie, but don't really think the books are that good. The author makes the point that some don't take C.S. Lewis as seriously because of the strong Christian content. Who else has read Lewis' trilogy? -- Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength -- my favorite is Perelandra... Lewis really highlights the conflict between pagans and Christians, which I find quite interesting...He basically says that paganism is passion without morality, which of course is not exactly true. My personal opinion (which is controversial) is that Lewis and Tolkien were both pagans at heart. Anyway, the Narnia Chronicles are wonderful. My three year old loves the books that are written (and gorgeously illustrated by Deborah Maze) for kids aged 4 - 6, and we are slowly reading the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe (original adult version) chapter by chapter. I can't decide which book is my favorite -- it's not the Silver Chair or the Last Battle..that's as far as I have gotten. Anyway, despite JKR's repeated assertions that she was NOT influenced by Tolkien, I think she has written a history of another world in the same way JRRT did. Susan eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Jan 2 18:21:45 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:21:45 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101210350.00df8100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <011001c074ea$551b5dc0$18c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8358 I think Sinistra must be female since Moody(the real) is too old fashioned in a way to dance about with another male IMO. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Dave Hardenbrook Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 2 januari 2001 06:05 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) At 10:02 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Amy Z wrote: >Come on, >is EVERYONE at Hogwarts hetero? How 'bout that hunk Bill--what ear does he >wear his earring in? Oh, don't spoil it for us Bill/Fleur shippers! :) I might just point out that Sinistra's gender is uncertain -- Maybe Moody danced with a *male* astronomy teacher at the Yule Ball! -- Dave eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Jan 2 18:42:26 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 18:42:26 -0000 Subject: The death before Harry's In-Reply-To: <92t4b4+ch22@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92t7ei+4l9u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8359 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, > > Amy Z wrote: > > > > > In GoF chapter 1, Voldemort tells Wormtail that they just have to > kill one > > > more person and then the way to Harry is clear. Who is he talking > about? > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > > > Oh, good catch! I remember wondering about this myself, the last > time I reread > > GoF, but by the time I got to the end I'd forgotten about it again. > I have no > > idea, does anyone? Some editions say "curse" rather than "death" thus referring to the real Mad Eye Moody. I think I will christen these errors/inconsistencies Flints in honor of dumb ol' Marcus of Slytherin, who was (inadvertently) forced to repeat a year at Hogwarts. Other notable Flints The Lily/James swap in GoF The ancestor/descendant swap in CoS Here's one I just noticed, comparing my newly purchased UK (but still with the same ol' wand order) GoF (UK) P.613 'You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before...' vs. (USA) p. 706 "You'll forgive me, Dumbledore, but I've never heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before..." Pippin From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Jan 2 19:02:58 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 11:02:58 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise for Christmas... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8360 ** Every Flavor Beans, all mine were reg flavors thus far :( I've figured out that the ones that come with the Hogwarts mug are completely normal (much to my and my sister's sadness as we poured them all out on a plate hoping to find icky ones) but the ones sold by themselves in the cloth pouch have the gross flavors. My brother-in-law bought my friend some of these for her birthday and now I'm jealous 'cause I didn't get any. I also found out something interesting the other day about the Warner Brothers stores. The one near me (Seattle, WA) said the WB was closing their stores, except for a few, and closing their online merch. and catalog sales departments. This made me very sad because I'm dying for the HP pint glasses (which I saw there before christmas and online) and I love other WB stuff there (I'm a big Bugs fan as well as Batman). Anyone have any other news on this? We went trying to hit the post-christmas sales and they had pulled all of their HP merch and said they'd be liquidating the store in the next few weeks. Although I'm hoping to get some cool stuff for cheap, I'm sad at the same time. Meredith From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Jan 2 18:47:21 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 10:47:21 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Philosopher's Stone...A very Harry Christmas Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8361 ** WOW! That looks like a lot of HP stuff. What did everyone else get? I got: the Fossil watch I wanted (the one with the black face with stars that says Harry Potter and lights up and comes in a cool tin. sorting hat keychain that's made like a magic-8 ball but tells you which house you should be in hedwig secret box Quidditch card game (which I bought myself while Christmas shopping) And my birthday was Sunday and my sister and husband made me a Harry Potter birthday (complete with making me draw a scar on my forehead and wear the glasses they bought). They had a Quidditch banner and tablecloth and plates, napkins and cups with the flying keys, they bought goody bags that looked like Botts Every Flavor Beans (yes, I'm 26 and we had goody bags at my birthday party). They also bought purple and white streamers and these gold and purple and teal stars they hung from the ceiling and iridescent confetti stars we threw at midnight. For my birthday my friend got me a set of HP rubber stamps, too. It was pretty fun. :) Meredith From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 03:08:08 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:08:08 -0500 Subject: I HATE the cover art Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8362 I don't like 1-3 of the U.S. ed. covers either. I liked 4 best though--comes closest to my mental image of Harry. Which is actually not very developed, unlike my Hermione--I know EXACTLY what she looks like--and you know, the actress isn't far off! The first three are too cartoonish. On the other hand, because they were so cartoonish they didn't interfere with my mind's eye, whereas 4 does! Argh! I sneaked a look at the "collector's edition" (wasn't about to buy it) and was pleased with JKR's Harry. That's pretty much what he looked like to me. Great minds think alike, I guess . . . One of the neat things to come out of the HP phenomenon is hearing kids discover how powerful visual media are and how you rob yourself by seeing music videos, movies, etc. before forming your own images. This seems obvious to me, but I grew up pre-MTV and had parents who strongly suggested "read the book" before I saw plays or movies. Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Jan 2 19:43:32 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:43:32 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's References: <92t4b4+ch22@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <022c01c074f4$a523c140$18c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8363 Bertha Jorkins was already dead, yes. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Kimberly Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 2 januari 2001 18:49 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, > Amy Z wrote: > > > In GoF chapter 1, Voldemort tells Wormtail that they just have to kill one > > more person and then the way to Harry is clear. Who is he talking about? Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Oh, good catch! I remember wondering about this myself, the last time I reread > GoF, but by the time I got to the end I'd forgotten about it again. I have no > idea, does anyone? I don't have the book where I can get to it at the moment, but had Bertha Jorkins already died when the statement was made? That's the only other death I can think of that you hadn't mentioned. Any other ideas? kimberly eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 19:50:30 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 19:50:30 -0000 Subject: Harry and his emotions In-Reply-To: <20010102173019.19057.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <92tbe6+bd56@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8364 Rachelle Elliott wrote: "In GoF, Harry stays very strong and does not break down and cry. [snip]The question is: When do you think Harry will actually break down and cry about the situation he has been placed in? He has had an enormous amount of stress for a child/teenager should have to endure. My thought, when Dumbledore sacrifices his life to save Harry may be a breaking point for him." Voicelady wrote: "Very good question. *I* think that when Harry cries (and I think he will), it will be at the very end of the story, once everything is finalized and set to rights. It will all be over, there will be no more pressure, and the tears will finally come as an emotional release." But isn't that human nature? I mean we all hold back our emotions to a certain extent and I find it VERY believable that Harry does too. Then again I also find it hard to buy that Harry has NEVER cried (I can't recall a time when he has- does someone want to correct me?). To quote John Lennon- "Some things are too painful to feel, so you stop them. We have the ability to block feelings and that's what we do most of the time... "All art is pain expressing itself. I think all life is, everthing we do, but particularly artists- that's why we are always vilified. They're always persecuted because they show pain; they can't help it. They express it in art and the way they live, and people don't like to see that reality that they're suffering. "When you're a child you can only take so much pain. It literally blocks off part of your body. It's like not wanting to know about going to the toliet or having a bath. If you don't do it for a long time, it accumulates. And emotions are the same way, you accumulate them over the years and they come out in other forms: violence or baldness or shortsitedness" I thought this was especially appropriate for this thread. The part about art in particular. I have always thought that there are more ways are expressing emotion than just laughing or crying etc. I don't know about the other writers on this list but IMO writing itself is a way to purge the soul. My guess is that it is the same for singing, dancing, painting, drawing, acting or any other form of artistic expression. This is ironic too because when you look at it reading is the very antithesis of writing. Reading is an escape but writing forces one to face the often bitter truth, and that can be painful. I guess a good question would be just how does this tie into Harry? Well, just how does Harry purge his own emotion? On the Quidditch field perhaps. And maybe Hermione lets out her emotions by delving into the quest for academic exellence. So (now I'm afraid I'm digressing into a bit of shipping) just what does Ron do to release his emotion. In two words (and IMO) he doesn't. I think this is why when it comes to Ron I am a no-shipper. I don't think he will be able to have a stable relationship (romantic or otherwise)with anyone until he is able to come to terms with himself. In short (or after glancing at my message- not so short) I don't think that Harry has to "have a good cry" to feel released from his axnieties and fears. I'm not against crying because it CAN be a cleansing experience but there are other ways of dealing with emotion. Some of you may disagree with this message (as you did with the shipper debate) but that's what we're he for. How boring life would be if we all look at things the same way! Our views are coloured by our experiences, and in my experience crying as an immediate reaction in relation to grief has always seemed to be superficial. I guess that death, or any type of hard-hitting loss, hits me in a place that is far past tears. Ok, I've managed to bore everyone with this rather OT message... Scott From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Jan 2 20:02:43 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 21:02:43 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Horizontal or Vertical? References: <92s84u+o1h7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <026701c074f7$ab2bea60$18c016c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8365 I always imagined it neither vertical nor horizontal but in a slanting direction not necessarily 45 degrees. I don't know why either. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: naama Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 2 januari 2001 10:48 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Horizontal or Vertical? (was Merchandise art in general) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > Does anyone out there picture Harry's scar the way WB does, i.e. more > horizontal than vertical? I thought it was so ridiculous that I went poring > through the books for evidence that those people at WB are complete idiots. > But you know, I can't find a single mention that tells you how the darn > thing is oriented. I wonder, does JKR have creative control over the movie > makeup dept.? > You know, when I read the books I pictured the scar as horizontal. I don't know why, I just did (still do, as a matter of fact). Isn't that the way you would imagine a real lightening - jagging *across* the sky? Anyway, I didn't even know that other people would think of it as vertical until I saw it mentioned here. Naama eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From donna.rae at verizon.net Tue Jan 2 20:17:58 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 15:17:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's References: <92t4b4+ch22@eGroups.com> <022c01c074f4$a523c140$18c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <02f001c074f9$19b45020$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8366 Just de-lurkiging for a suggestion - could they have been talking about the unicorn? Or did it have to be a person? Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: Sara Ludwig To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 2:43 PM Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's Bertha Jorkins was already dead, yes. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Kimberly Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 2 januari 2001 18:49 ?mne: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, > Amy Z wrote: > > > In GoF chapter 1, Voldemort tells Wormtail that they just have to kill one > > more person and then the way to Harry is clear. Who is he talking about? Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Oh, good catch! I remember wondering about this myself, the last time I reread > GoF, but by the time I got to the end I'd forgotten about it again. I have no > idea, does anyone? I don't have the book where I can get to it at the moment, but had Bertha Jorkins already died when the statement was made? That's the only other death I can think of that you hadn't mentioned. Any other ideas? kimberly eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Jan 2 20:20:32 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 16:20:32 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry and his emotions Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE18@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8367 > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott [SMTP:harry_potter00 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 3:51 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry and his emotions > > > > But isn't that human nature? I mean we all hold back our emotions to > a certain extent and I find it VERY believable that Harry does too. > Then again I also find it hard to buy that Harry has NEVER cried (I > can't recall a time when he has- does someone want to correct me?). > At the end of PS, in a very lovely passage, Dumbledore explains how Lily's love protected him from Voldemort, and Harry did need to wipe his eyes on his blanket. Somehow I don't think he was having an allergic reaction to something. :-) Angela From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Tue Jan 2 20:27:39 2001 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 20:27:39 -0000 Subject: Slightly OT: Is Aunt Petunia a witch?/Chrestomanci Books References: Message-ID: <00ee01c074fa$a5b7b520$c0f87ad5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8368 This made me think of Miss (argh! can't remember her name - can someone help me out?) in the Chrestomani book Witch Week; she lived in a world where witchcraft was verboten, and only ever cast one spell in her life, to ensure that no one ever found out she was a witch. This is an interesting question; perhaps Aunt Petunia has supressed this part of herself since she was a child through inate fear and just discreetly threw the Hogwarts letter away, then was consumed with jealousy as she watched her sister go off to Hogwarts without a care. However, I think the most likely explanation is that she is a muggle, who started off being jealous of her witch sister, and then maybe became even more vehement through fear when she saw what happened to Lily and James. I don't see the muggle community having a great communal fear of witches and wizards; after all, the muggle born students' families seem to accept having a witch or wizard without any major problems. However, this may be just because the wizarding world keeps itself so well concealed; if it were more widely known, maybe people would panic. After all, the unknown and unfamiliar seems to be what people fear most. Alix > Amy wrote: > IMO, if she's a witch, she doesn't acknowledge it to herself. I.e. I don't > think she's the thing protecting Harry. She is WAY too hostile. I do kind > of like the idea of self-hating witches and wizards. If magical folk are a > feared and downtrodden minority, stands to reason a lot of them would be in > the closet to themselves as well as the rest of the world. Aunt P could be > one such. From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 20:50:23 2001 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (Kazza mazzoo) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 20:50:23 -0000 Subject: Explanations please In-Reply-To: <92qlio+v06s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92teuf+uvdd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8369 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kazza mazzoo" > wrote: > > > Second of all, can anyone explain in PoA how Harry stops the > > dementors the first time round before he goes back in time with > > Hermione? First he thought it was his dad, but when he goes back > > he finds out it was himself, and stops them .. .but how did he > > manage it the first time. I think I have a bad case of Back To > > The Future here lol. It's like round robin, without the start! > > Does anyone know? > > I'm over a hundred posts behind, so this may already be completely > resolved, but I couldn't help tossing out something really silly > that may help explain this. Remember the Bill and Ted movies? They > are the best example I can think of for a super-simple example of > this. At one point the two are locked in a cell at the police > station (I think) and one of them asks the other to remind him to go > back in time and put the key inside the cell, or something to that > effect. As soon as he says this, they find the key, so then at some > point after that they had to go back and actually put the key there. > Does that make any sense? So Harry was saved by the future him, who > had gone back in time and was standing on the other side of the > lake, but the future him didn't realize that that's what had > happened until the last moment, whereas Bill and Ted > did it on purpose. > > kimberly Hey Kim, Nice to meet you, hope you've managed to catch up! I've thrown in some extra brain teasers after that post, and I still haven't resolved it. That Bill and Ted is an excellent idea!! I remember that scene .. "most excellent my bodacious friend". =D So, Bill and Ted had to go back to actually put the key there... How?? Harry had to go back to stop the dementors .. How?? lol Oh and I have more brain teasers when I come back, about how things work! Anyone know if Carol Vorderman is a member here?!?! Cheers, Kazza From alina at dial7.com Tue Jan 2 21:01:27 2001 From: alina at dial7.com (Alina) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 16:01:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Slightly OT: Is Aunt Petunia a witch?/Chrestomanci Books References: <00ee01c074fa$a5b7b520$c0f87ad5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A5241A7.DC2D03BF@dial7.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8370 Yes, that's a good thought. I was also reading in an interveiw with JK Rowling, and Jo said that there's another type of human, (adding to squib, muggle, witch, etc) and thats of when a person gains magical ability LATE in life. Could Aunt Petunia be this? Alix Petty wrote: > This made me think of Miss (argh! can't remember her name - can > someone help > me out?) in the Chrestomani book Witch Week; she lived in a world > where > witchcraft was verboten, and only ever cast one spell in her life, to > ensure > that no one ever found out she was a witch. > > This is an interesting question; perhaps Aunt Petunia has supressed > this > part of herself since she was a child through inate fear and just > discreetly > threw the Hogwarts letter away, then was consumed with jealousy as she > > watched her sister go off to Hogwarts without a care. However, I > think the > most likely explanation is that she is a muggle, who started off being > > jealous of her witch sister, and then maybe became even more vehement > through fear when she saw what happened to Lily and James. > > I don't see the muggle community having a great communal fear of > witches and > wizards; after all, the muggle born students' families seem to accept > having > a witch or wizard without any major problems. However, this may be > just > because the wizarding world keeps itself so well concealed; if it were > more > widely known, maybe people would panic. After all, the unknown and > unfamiliar seems to be what people fear most. > > Alix > > > > Amy wrote: > > > IMO, if she's a witch, she doesn't acknowledge it to herself. I.e. > I > don't > > think she's the thing protecting Harry. She is WAY too hostile. I > do > kind > > of like the idea of self-hating witches and wizards. If magical > folk are > a > > feared and downtrodden minority, stands to reason a lot of them > would be > in > > the closet to themselves as well as the rest of the world. Aunt P > could > be > > one such. > > > > eGroups Sponsor [Corbis - The Place for Pictures Online] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 1 05:44:25 2001 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:44:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] audio tapes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8371 Does anyone know if, and where, they have audio tapes in Spanish? PS- It reached 20 degrees outside today! I was able to walk from my work to my car without freezing! There's hope for Michigan life after all! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 21:06:25 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 16:06:25 -0500 Subject: British Harry more honest? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8372 Hello chatters, I'm reading the U.S. version of PoA, having previously read the U.K. version. I could swear a line has been changed (significantly, not just a British-to-U.S.-English switch). It's in "Flight of the Fat Lady," p. 155/U.S. hardcover. Herewith the U.S. version: [Lupin said:] "But I didn't think it a good idea for Lord Voldemort to materialize in the staffroom. I imagined that people would panic." "I didn't think of Voldemort," said Harry honestly. "I -- I remembered those dementors." If memory serves, the U.K. version went more like this: "I did think of Voldemort at first," said Harry honestly. "But then I remembered those dementors." The scene to which he refers ("The Boggart in the Wardrobe") is unchanged: he first thinks of a resurrected Voldemort and then remembers the Dementors. Would someone please check and tell me: (a) did I dream it up? and if not, (b) why do you think this change was made? Maybe British kids are just more honest than American kids. (duck) Don't hit! I'm American! Amy - - - - - - - - - - The Whomping Willow was a very violent tree that stood alone in the middle of the grounds. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 2 21:11:57 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:11:57 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <92t2cr+tvte@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92tg70+j4ba@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8373 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote: > There's been a lot of brouhaha about Harry Potter being supposedly > blasphemous or satanic because it contains magic. I think this is > nonsense, and here's something that puts the debate into perspective > and shows that HP is only under attack because it's popular. > > In Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy (which I'm currently > reading the third book of, The Amber Spyglass, the first two being > Northern Lights and The Subtle Knife), no less weighty a subject is > tackled than a war against GOD (the Authority), who seems to be being > set up as a lying villain. Now, I have no problem with this idea, not > being very religious, but if I were a devout Christian I think I > would probably have shut the book and stopped reading at some point. > However, I haven't heard anything about fundamentalist groups trying > to ban this trilogy! I don't know precisely how popular it is, but I > certainly haven't heard a murmur against it. > > Something to think about. > > Keith Maybe they know all about it, and are trying to keep it hush-hush. I won't get into again whether taking HP off the Dirtroad Village school syllabus or out of the Podunk County Library truly constitutes "banning," especially in a county where 95% of the population is within 30 minutes of a mass-market bookstore (everyone blessed one of which has all four HP volumes stacked from floor to ceiling, discounted from 15 to 25%). Now, some of our more excitable fundamentalist friends are convinced that the secular authorities are trying to ban the Bible. I doubt this is the case, but it seems to me they have a bit more evidence to go on: the State of Ohio, for example, had its motto declared unconstitutional several months back, because it came from the Gospel of Matthew ("With God, all things are possible" ? prompting one wit to suggest that Ohio replace it with Ivan Karamazov's slogan, "Without God, everything is permitted"). Since the alleged censoriousness of evangelicals is taken as a given by many on this group ? i.e.,. one anti-HP site was described as giving "the" evangelical position on HP, presumably assuming that all evangelicals are one unamimous, harmonious anthill on this matter (it's bigtime stereotyping, but hey, who doesn't? - to paraphrase Pascal, people so naturally stereotype that not to stereotype would merely amount to another form of stereotypy). I would like to see some hard actual real data here ? what percentage of people in this country actually want to ban/restrict HP? What percentage of evangelicals? My guess is that even with the latter group, the number would fall well below 50%. I doubt any polling organization has explored this issue, so if anyone out there has friends at Gallup or Roper, now's your chance to put a bee in their bonnet. As for Pullman, I've been put off on reading him not due to his religious stance, but because of the critics ? every reviewer I've seen feels compelled to throw in some snide anti-HP remark, implying that HP is mere cheez-whiz on white bread compared to the intoxicating medley of Amber Spyglass flavors. Someday, I'll get around to Pullman (maybe after JKR's Volume Seven). As for anti-Deistic novels: my favorite in Anatole France's witty The Revolt of the Angels, in which the guardian angel of a member of the French bourgeois abandons his charge after becoming convinced (through a display of theological erudition that would Hermione herself gasping in awe) that the being known as Jehovah is a mere evil demiurge, and seeks for the long-vanished Satan to lead a revolt. James Blish's The Devil's Day climaxes with a successful revolt against the Deity by his Satanic Majesty More intriguing than either, however, is GK Chesterton's The Man Who Was Thursday, a sort of Theodicial Alice-in-Wonderland, and one of the few tales that gets the uniquely Christian perspective of Good and Evil exactly right. Fortunately, it's available online: http://www.ccel.org/c/chesterton/thursday/thursday.html - CMC From flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 21:41:35 2001 From: flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com (flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 21:41:35 -0000 Subject: Merchandise for Christmas... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92thuf+3i6j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8374 Yes, they are closing the store near me as well... Palm Beach Gardens, FL. They are keeping both Broward County stores open, and the Aventura and Orlando stores, for all you interested Florida folks. I don't know about any other Florida locations. Michelle M., momentarily de-lurking. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Meredith Wilson wrote: > > > ** Every Flavor Beans, all mine were reg flavors thus far :( > > I've figured out that the ones that come with the Hogwarts mug are > completely normal (much to my and my sister's sadness as we poured them all > out on a plate hoping to find icky ones) but the ones sold by themselves in > the cloth pouch have the gross flavors. My brother-in-law bought my friend > some of these for her birthday and now I'm jealous 'cause I didn't get any. > > I also found out something interesting the other day about the Warner > Brothers stores. The one near me (Seattle, WA) said the WB was closing > their stores, except for a few, and closing their online merch. and catalog > sales departments. This made me very sad because I'm dying for the HP pint > glasses (which I saw there before christmas and online) and I love other WB > stuff there (I'm a big Bugs fan as well as Batman). Anyone have any other > news on this? We went trying to hit the post-christmas sales and they had > pulled all of their HP merch and said they'd be liquidating the store in the > next few weeks. Although I'm hoping to get some cool stuff for cheap, I'm > sad at the same time. > > Meredith From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 21:48:39 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:48:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Horizontal or Vertical? (was Merchandise art in general) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8375 Now, mind you American Cover Art depicts it this way, but when i first read the books, my brother had taken the cover off of 1 and i only read it bc i finished "first among equals" and was bored at a family gathering, but i always pictured it vertical kind of small and between his eyebrows and up a bit, i dont like the thing where it takes up his entire forehead as in merchandising. That is just a wee bit too pbvious for me. Stephanie "Amy Z" wrote: > > > > Does anyone out there picture Harry's scar the way WB does, i.e. >more > > horizontal than vertical? I thought it was so ridiculous that I >went poring > > through the books for evidence that those people at WB are complete >idiots. > > But you know, I can't find a single mention that tells you how the >darn > > thing is oriented. I wonder, does JKR have creative control over >the movie > > makeup dept.? > > >You know, when I read the books I pictured the scar as horizontal. I >don't know why, I just did (still do, as a matter of fact). Isn't >that the way you would imagine a real lightening - jagging *across* >the sky? Anyway, I didn't even know that other people would think of >it as vertical until I saw it mentioned here. > >Naama > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From duo at dangerous-minds.com Tue Jan 2 22:23:25 2001 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 06:23:25 +0800 Subject: Underage magic [HPforGrownups] (was Random Inconsistencies) In-Reply-To: <3A51288C.79FECC01@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8376 >> That's a good explanation Jim - but what about Lily coming home from that >> dammed school and turning tea cups into tadpoles? > >Homework? Or just possibly, she did get cited, but Petunia's biased memory >does not include Lily being curtailed, just Lily getting all the attention. And the reason dear Petunia remembers is because they were her teacups, perchance? ^_^ Nathan From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Jan 2 22:15:15 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:15:15 -0000 Subject: British Harry more honest? and Hermione's forthrightness In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92tjtj+r9hc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8377 Amy, you've found another Flint! (an error/inconsistency) My UK edition says 'I did think of Voldemort first,' said Harry honestly. 'But then I - I remembered those Dementors.' The UK version makes more sense. There is an earlier post from Peg Kerr about the vagaries of publishing which explains how errors and corrections chase each other through the proofing process, often going astray . What really startled me, in comparing my US and UK sets, was the famous line in CoS about the reason Hermione avoids Moaning Myrtle's bathroom. My US edition says, Chapter 8 "The Deathday Party" "...; it's awful trying to have a pee with her wailing at you--" and my UK edition says, "...,it's awful trying to go to the loo with her wailing at you--" Do any of the British editions have 'pee'? It seems a tad more forthright than the British idiom. Pippin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > Hello chatters, > > I'm reading the U.S. version of PoA, having previously read the U.K. > version. I could swear a line has been changed (significantly, not just a > British-to-U.S.-English switch). > > It's in "Flight of the Fat Lady," p. 155/U.S. hardcover. Herewith the U.S. > version: > > [Lupin said:] "But I didn't think it a good idea for Lord Voldemort to > materialize in the staffroom. I imagined that people would panic." > "I didn't think of Voldemort," said Harry honestly. "I -- I remembered > those dementors." > > If memory serves, the U.K. version went more like this: > > "I did think of Voldemort at first," said Harry honestly. "But then I > remembered those dementors." > > The scene to which he refers ("The Boggart in the Wardrobe") is unchanged: > he first thinks of a resurrected Voldemort and then remembers the Dementors. > > Would someone please check and tell me: (a) did I dream it up? and if not, > (b) why do you think this change was made? > > Maybe British kids are just more honest than American kids. (duck) Don't > hit! I'm American! > > Amy > > - - - - - - - - - - > The Whomping Willow was a very violent tree that > stood alone in the middle of the grounds. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 22:22:24 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:22:24 -0500 Subject: Flints! (was The death before Harry's) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8378 Pippin, that's the perfect term. Flint it is. Given the other version with "curse," I guess it is just a Flint. Oh well. I wish it were a sneaky clue instead. I have another Flint from GoF: (sorry, highly inaccurate, this is from memory) (AD:) "...unless we do not stand united we shall certainly fail." Another incorrect negative. The editors must've been dozing during that chapter ("The Parting of the Ways") though I can't imagine how . . . I was hanging on every word. They must've been rushing to get it into production. Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 22:25:51 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:25:51 -0000 Subject: Harry and his emotions In-Reply-To: <92tbe6+bd56@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92tkhf+ong4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8379 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, > Rachelle Elliott wrote: > "In GoF, Harry stays very strong and does not break down and cry. > [snip]The question is: When do you think Harry will actually break > down and cry about the situation he has been placed in? > > Voicelady wrote: > "Very good question. *I* think that when Harry cries (and I think he > will), it will be at the very end of the story, once everything is > finalized and set to rights. It will all be over, there will be no > more pressure, and the tears will finally come as an emotional > release." > "Scott " wrote: > > But isn't that human nature? I mean we all hold back our emotions to > a certain extent and I find it VERY believable that Harry does too. > Then again I also find it hard to buy that Harry has NEVER cried (I > can't recall a time when he has- does someone want to correct me?). Someone already mentioned when Dumbledore told him about his mother he cried. Also, in PoA, when Lupin is teaching him the Patronus charm. He passes out and hears his mother AND father this time, and when he comes to he's crying, and he pretends to be tying his shoe so Lupin won't notice. > > I guess a good question would be just how does this tie into Harry? > Well, just how does Harry purge his own emotion? On the Quidditch > field perhaps. And maybe Hermione lets out her emotions by delving > into the quest for academic exellence. So (now I'm afraid I'm > digressing into a bit of shipping) just what does Ron do to release > his emotion. In two words (and IMO) he doesn't. I think this is why > when it comes to Ron I am a no-shipper. I don't think he will be able > to have a stable relationship (romantic or otherwise)with anyone > until he is able to come to terms with himself. But Harry *does* cry, and Hermione does too - in fact the word sob is used in relation to Hermione at least a couple of times I can think of. As for Ron - I can't think of a time when he cries, but I do think he releases his emotions - more than Harry even. He and Hermione both are very good at letting people know how they feel. Both of them express anger, joy, confusion, jealousy, love, fear, etc. quite openly. Harry may do this a little less, but I think, considering the way he was raised, he does a pretty decent job of allowing himself to feel. Just tossing out my thoughts on the matter. kimberly > > In short (or after glancing at my message- not so short) I don't > think that Harry has to "have a good cry" to feel released from his > axnieties and fears. I'm not against crying because it CAN be a > cleansing experience but there are other ways of dealing with > emotion. Some of you may disagree with this message (as you did with > the shipper debate) but that's what we're he for. How boring life > would be if we all look at things the same way! Our views are > coloured by our experiences, and in my experience crying as an > immediate reaction in relation to grief has always seemed to be > superficial. I guess that death, or any type of hard-hitting loss, > hits me in a place that is far past tears. > > Ok, I've managed to bore everyone with this rather OT message... > > > Scott From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 2 22:39:19 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 14:39:19 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <92t3ma+ua87@eGroups.com> References: <92t2cr+tvte@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010102143655.00e6b840@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8380 At 05:38 PM 1/2/01 +0000, Scott wrote: >They feel that if the kids >realise Santa isn't real they will question just what IS real, >including God. The key phrase here is "they will question". IMO, the main motive behind banning Harry and other things is to stop children from learning to question *anything*. It's much harder to take over the world when your would-be slaves are going around thinking for themselves. Just ask Voldemort. -- Dave From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 22:34:08 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 17:34:08 -0500 Subject: HP religion debates (drifting OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8381 Keith wrote: >However, I haven't heard anything about fundamentalist groups trying to ban >[His Dark Materials]! I don't know precisely how popular it is, but I >certainly haven't heard a murmur against it. As a huge HDM fan,* I've wondered the same thing. I think the answer is that HP is SO popular that it awakens a response while other, less popular books (even ones as acclaimed and widely read as HDM) escape notice to a large extent. OT: There *have* been murmurs against Pullman's trilogy, however, which does indeed put God (at least a certain conception of God--"the Authority") on the side of evil. Pullman sees that God as wanting us to remain in ignorance. As Pullman says, "I hold the Fall to be the best thing that happened to us, not the worst...and I venerate Eve as a benefactor." I agree with his view of the Fall, but needless to say, many think this is nothing short of Satanic! I don't recall what Roman Catholic organization dubbed them extremely dangerous books. Does anyone know if the RC Church still has the Index (=list of books good RC's shouldn't read)? Amy *For the record, I'm a minister. But not a Christian. (Not a Satanist either .) But I have heard of committed Christians who nevertheless love HDM, either because they disregard Pullman's theology, welcome the challenge it poses, or think it poses a challenge only to certain incarnations of the Church and not to the essence of Christianity. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Jan 2 23:38:35 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 2 Jan 2001 15:38:35 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa Message-ID: <20010102233835.18967.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8382 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From sara.ludwig at telia.com Tue Jan 2 23:47:20 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 00:47:20 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa References: <20010102233835.18967.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <005701c07517$60667980$aec116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8383 What is real(ity)? catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: voicelady at mymailstation.com Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 00:38 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa At 05:38 PM 1/2/01 +0000, Scott wrote: > They feel that if the kids realise Santa isn't real they will question just what IS real,including God. Santa isn't real? What do you mean, Santa isn't real?!? I've ridden down Broadway with Santa. I saw 8 million people's faces light up at the sight of him. Trust me; Santa is VERY real. I bet Harry believes in Santa (just to keep this on-topic.) Jeralyn, the Voicelady current book: "Winter's Heart" by Robert Jordan Current CD: the Beatles' 1 _____________________________________________________________ This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark of CIDCO Incorporated. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 2 23:56:00 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 23:56:00 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates & Santa In-Reply-To: <20010102233835.18967.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <92tpqg+udh2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8384 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > > Santa isn't real? What do you mean, Santa isn't real?!? I've ridden down Broadway with Santa. I saw 8 million people's faces light up at the sight of him. Trust me; Santa is VERY real. > > I bet Harry believes in Santa (just to keep this on-topic.) How silly - if Santa weren't real, who would direct the elves and look after the reindeer? It must be another one of those rediculous internet rumors that go around ever once in awhile. I always feel badly for the poor gullible souls who buy into hoaxes like that. Santa's not real! Honestly - next they'll be saying Harry's not real! > > Jeralyn, the Voicelady > current book: "Winter's Heart" by Robert Jordan > Current CD: the Beatles' 1 > _____________________________________________________________ > This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark > of CIDCO Incorporated. From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Jan 3 00:26:00 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 16:26:00 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa In-Reply-To: <20010102233835.18967.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010102162454.00c056f0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8385 At 03:38 PM 1/2/01 -0800, voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: >I bet Harry believes in Santa (just to keep this on-topic.) Do you think Santa will show up later in the series? (He's appeared in Oz and Narnia, why not Hogwarts?) :) -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Jan 3 00:28:02 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 16:28:02 -0800 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa In-Reply-To: <005701c07517$60667980$aec116c2@pnxpg> References: <20010102233835.18967.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010102162737.00bfa250@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8386 At 12:47 AM 1/3/01 +0100, Sara Ludwig wrote: >What is real(ity)? "Nothin' but a collective *hunch*!" -- Dave From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 00:35:52 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 00:35:52 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa In-Reply-To: <005701c07517$60667980$aec116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <92ts58+vk26@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8387 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > What is real(ity)? I can't be sure, but I think it's that shrill beeping noise that wakes me up every morning... > catrina > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr?n: voicelady at m... > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 00:38 > ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa > > > At 05:38 PM 1/2/01 +0000, Scott wrote: > > They feel that if the kids realise Santa isn't real they will question just what IS real,including God. > > Santa isn't real? What do you mean, Santa isn't real?!? I've ridden down Broadway with Santa. I saw 8 million people's faces light up at the sight of him. Trust me; Santa is VERY real. > > I bet Harry believes in Santa (just to keep this on-topic.) > > Jeralyn, the Voicelady > current book: "Winter's Heart" by Robert Jordan > Current CD: the Beatles' 1 > _____________________________________________________________ > This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark > of CIDCO Incorporated. > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Jan 3 00:30:17 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 01:30:17 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010102162454.00c056f0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <009001c0751d$5a307380$aec116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8388 I don't think that would fit the series, but just my opinion. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Dave Hardenbrook Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 01:26 ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa At 03:38 PM 1/2/01 -0800, voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: >I bet Harry believes in Santa (just to keep this on-topic.) Do you think Santa will show up later in the series? (He's appeared in Oz and Narnia, why not Hogwarts?) :) -- Dave eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kazz2439 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 01:17:01 2001 From: kazz2439 at yahoo.com (kazz2439 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 01:17:01 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Explanations please In-Reply-To: <3A512581.747F526@texas.net> Message-ID: <92tuid+2trt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8389 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > It wasn't a "first time round." Harry, over with the dementors > going through it the first time, was there at *exactly the same > time* as Harry, who time-turned into the past. It all only > happened once. Harry *experienced* it twice. > > Imagine a piece of thread, going straight from point A to point > B, except for a little loop. A teeny person walking along the > thread would first pass the spot where the thread overlapped > itself making the loop, and then would continue on along the > loop itself, and would then again pass the spot where the > thread overlapped itself making the loop. It's only one spot, > but the teeny person was at that spot twice. The time turner > makes loops in the straight line of time. > > Did that help? > > --Amanda Hiya Amanda, =) Thanks for explaining that. That's exactly how I see it as a straight line. Although the loops and teeny person wasn't in my picture lol. Neverless, when I say "first time" what I meant was when the teeny person passed the spot where the thread overlaps ... before going round the loop. How did Harry get pass the Dementors before going on the loop to cast the spell. Did I make your brain go loopy now?? lol Kazz From amy at wintersmoon.com Wed Jan 3 01:49:27 2001 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 01:49:27 -0000 Subject: Year Three Class Schedule Message-ID: <92u0f7+k28e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8390 Um...I think all of Hogwarts must be using a time turner...or something...none of the dates match ANY year - at least no year in the 90's (that's 1990's). The only year I could find that matched Friday October 16th (C8) is 1998. (Yes, I know this doesn't work for the regular time table, but I'm just using it to get some of the days straight.) So going with that (at least for September through December) September 2nd, the first day of class is a Wednesday. Around Christmas, we jump back to 1996 - which is the only year that had a full moon around Christmas (it was on the 24th...it falls under that day before day after rule). The only year I can get Buckbeak's hearing date to fit with a Hogsmeade trip is 1995. I can't get any of the other dates to fit anywhere. Regardless...here's what I've come up with: Wednesday (C6): 9am Divination (Muggle Studies, Arithmancy) 10am Transfiguration Lunch 1am Care of Magical Creatures -G/S Thursday (C7): 9am Double Potions - G/S (Hermione *probably* has Ancient Runes too) Lunch 1pm DADA (nothing else that day) Friday (C8): (*this is coming from the whole Friday October 16th date in Prof. Trelawney's prediction) Double Herbology - R/G Transfiguration (another lesson) Monday: DADA (C7) (probably have other classes) Tuesday (C15): (This is a complete guess because there isn't anything that says these classes are on Tuesday, but it's the only day left) Care of Magical Creatures (Arithmancy ) Charms Lunch Divination They also still have Astronomy...which I would assume is still at least on Wednesday at midnight. so...in summation they have the following confirmed classes: 2 hours of Divination (Tuesday and Wednesday) 2 hours of Transfiguration (Wednesday and Friday) 4 hours (2 classes) of Care of Magical Creatures (Tuesday and Wednesday) 2 hours (1 class) of Potions (Thursday) 2 hours of DADA (Monday and Thursday) 2 hours (1 class) Herbology (Fridays) 1 hour of Charms (Tuesday) My guess is that they would have additional Transfiguration classes - 2 - hour long classes seems a bit light. Also, they probably have at least one other Double Potions class and one other Double Herbology class. They probably also have additional DADA and Charms classes. There's a lot of holes in their schedule...Wednesday afternoon, Friday morning (although they do have a pretty hectic afternoon so maybe they have the morning off), they definitely have a class Friday after Transfiguration, most of Monday is open (you can't tell me that they only have DADA on Monday), and then they could possibly have a class on Tuesday afternoon. Hermione is another story...I haven't the foggiest idea what her schedule's like. I'm not sure anyone besides Hermione could have managed all that. Amy From cyndee51 at juno.com Wed Jan 3 01:55:22 2001 From: cyndee51 at juno.com (Cynthia J Bradford) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 19:55:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British Harry more honest? and Hermione's forthrightness Message-ID: <20010102.195523.-301527.0.cyndee51@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8391 I am new to HPforGrownups and wonder if you could tell me how to obtain UK editions of the HP series. I did not realize there was a difference between the books and am interested in reading the UK books. I am a teacher in the heart of the Bible-belt and tomorrow we are going to begin reading HP the First Year. I expect some problems due to the fact this area is big on banning HP from the shelves. However, I let all who ask know that there is not a better place for children and young adults learn about values, morals, strength and courage of youth, and a place were a "girl" can be on equal footing with a "boy"--sometimes a cut above the fella. Sorry guys. As I said I am new and want to thank you for any help you provide for obtaining the UK versions. Cynthia On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 22:15:15 -0000 foxmoth at qnet.com writes: > > Amy, you've found another Flint! (an error/inconsistency) > My UK edition says > 'I did think of Voldemort first,' said Harry honestly. 'But then I - > I > remembered those Dementors.' > > The UK version makes more sense. There is an earlier post from Peg > Kerr > about the vagaries of publishing which explains how errors and > corrections chase each other through the proofing process, often > going > astray > . > What really startled me, in comparing my US and UK sets, was > the > famous line in CoS about the reason Hermione avoids Moaning Myrtle's > > bathroom. > My US edition says, > Chapter 8 "The Deathday Party" > "...; it's awful trying to have a pee with her wailing at you--" > > and my UK edition says, > "...,it's awful trying to go to the loo with her wailing at you--" > > Do any of the British editions have 'pee'? It seems a tad more > forthright than the British idiom. > Pippin > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > Hello chatters, > > > > I'm reading the U.S. version of PoA, having previously read the > U.K. > > version. I could swear a line has been changed (significantly, > not > just a > > British-to-U.S.-English switch). > > > > It's in "Flight of the Fat Lady," p. 155/U.S. hardcover. Herewith > the U.S. > > version: > > > > [Lupin said:] "But I didn't think it a good idea for Lord > Voldemort to > > materialize in the staffroom. I imagined that people would > panic." > > "I didn't think of Voldemort," said Harry honestly. "I -- I > remembered > > those dementors." > > > > If memory serves, the U.K. version went more like this: > > > > "I did think of Voldemort at first," said Harry honestly. > "But then I > > remembered those dementors." > > > > The scene to which he refers ("The Boggart in the Wardrobe") is > unchanged: > > he first thinks of a resurrected Voldemort and then remembers the > Dementors. > > > > Would someone please check and tell me: (a) did I dream it up? > and if not, > > (b) why do you think this change was made? > > > > Maybe British kids are just more honest than American kids. (duck) > Don't > > hit! I'm American! > > > > Amy > > > > - - - - - - - - - - > > The Whomping Willow was a very violent tree that > > stood alone in the middle of the grounds. > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From nlpnt at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 03:22:42 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 03:22:42 -0000 Subject: Yet another random inconsistency.... Message-ID: <92u5u2+tn3a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8392 In GoF towards the beginning of "The Yule Ball" (chapter), when Ron notices Hermione's teeth she responds, "Mum and Dad...wanted me to carry on with my braces..." Herm having braces has never been mentioned before, and even if they were on the inside and thus escaped the Slytherins' acid wit* and Ron's curiosity, wouldn't they have been noticeably (and comically) destroyed by the very curse that sent Hermione to Madam Pomfrey in the first place? *Does this acid wit have anything to do with having a Potions master as Head of House, perhaps? From managirl19 at aol.com Wed Jan 3 03:30:28 2001 From: managirl19 at aol.com (managirl19 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:30:28 EST Subject: HP, Santa and FLOO!!!! Message-ID: <55.f4f6040.2783f6d4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8393 In a message dated 02-Jan-01 9:50:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara.ludwig at telia.com writes: > I don't think that would fit the series, but just my opinion. > catrina > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > Fr?n: Dave Hardenbrook > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 01:26 > ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa > > > At 03:38 PM 1/2/01 -0800, voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > >I bet Harry believes in Santa (just to keep this on-topic.) > > Do you think Santa will show up later in the series? (He's appeared > in Oz and Narnia, why not Hogwarts?) :) > > > > -- Dave Wait a minute: Why not? After all, isn't Santa supposed to come down a fireplace in all 'muggle ' tales? Maybe J.K. Rowling could twist it so that Santa used the Floo network, but my, wouldn't all the parents have trouble explaining THAT to their children. In see all the opportunity, but I doubt she will. It'd be nice though. Mana ------------------------------------------------------------- Morgana le Fay at FanFiction.net formerly Allegria Winselvern and Lupin's Girl e-mail: managirl19 at aol.com Contacts AOL Instant Messenger : managirl19 MSN Messenger: psycho_mana at hotmail.com ICQ # 84665215 Screen Name: Mana Yahoo Messenger: psycho_mana Napster: PlatinumGarbage Websites Mana's Basement* Wizarding Bulgaria and Durmstrang Institute* Virtual Harry Potter Beauxbatons The Unofficial Harry Potter Fan Club Encyclopedia Potterica *Websites that are mine From ak928 at barnard.edu Wed Jan 3 04:15:17 2001 From: ak928 at barnard.edu (Ashley Kelly) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:15:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H shippers clues In-Reply-To: <92lcuc+7r5a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8394 Hi! I have been reading every post for a few months now. I am Ashley and I am a 19 year old student from New Mexico but attending college in New York City. Anyway, I asked my 12 year old brother who has only read the first two books what he thought about the potential of any of the trio getting together. He was confident that Hermione and Ron were good for each other. Strange that he got this from only the first two books but I felt it was interesting. ASHLEY (P.S. I am a strong H/R shipper for many reasons including the scowl Hermione has when Fleur fawns over Ron at the end of GoF) On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Kimberly wrote: > -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > > So, so far, *every* teenager who has been questioned by someone on > this > > group has said that they think Hermione likes Harry. > > Doesn't this seem strange to you? From my knowlege of kids that age > it seems odd that it would be unanimous. It's specifically the time > in many young lives when it begins to be fun to hold a dissenting > opinion. So I've begun wondering about the question. > > > > ME: "So, you know that kiss at the end of Goblet of Fire? Where > > > Hermione kisses Harry?" > > > MICHAEL: Yeah. > > > ME: Is that significant? > > I wonder, if you asked your average group of 8th graders who hadn't > already discussed the topic simply if any of the characters had > romantic feelings for each other, without having brought up the kiss, > whether the responses might have been more varied. I don't know that > it would, but it seems worth a try in the spirit of research. > > Pollsters, take note - does anyone have a group of previously unpolled > 8th graders lying around? I can ask the two or three I have easy > access to, but it won't be much of a sample. > > kimberly > > > > eGroups Sponsor > Click Here! > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 05:07:27 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 05:07:27 -0000 Subject: Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory In-Reply-To: <92sugp+7vuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92uc2f+p0r7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8395 There's another school of SF that holds that time is self-healing; If Harry had saved his parents in 1981, Voldemort would have got them next year. If Hitler had not been born, for example, the theory holds that someone would have arisen to feed on the desperation of the Weimar Republic's depression and the anti-Semitism bubbling just under the surface in much of Europe; or that Stalin would have taken Hitler's place in igniting a World War. IOW, time is a river, and whether a stone is in one spot or another isn't critical; the river will find its course again. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > I find this thread *extremely* fascinating! Might not even need to > know about the Veritaserum now... to verify the past, all one > would have to do is to go back in time and actually witness it... > even if one's memory was altered, he/she couldn't deny the proof > of his/her own eyes... yes! :::rubs hands together::: > > Is wotan on this list? She's presented an alternate year one > scenario in one of her fics. And I've said it before, but one of the > best "time travel" novels I've ever read is Orson Scott Card's > "Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus". > > But then one gets into questions of relativism. Exactly which > past is the desired/desirable outcome? This was what > fascinated me so much about Pastwatch--Card's theory seems > to be that if you go back in time you don't just change the future... > the "ripple effect" causes the *entire* future to disappear. So if > Harry goes back in time and saves his parents, for instance, the > post-1981 "future" as we know it in canon would completely > cease to exist. > > Fascinating stuff. Now, all I need to know is if a Time-Turner is > only used for short-range time travel... how many turns would it > take to go back several years? > > --Ebony > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook > wrote: > > At 10:28 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Alina wrote: > > >And probably the > > >strongest evidence of some kind of time twisting going in the > comment > > >on CS that Voldemort is the last remaining ANCESTOR of > Slalzar > > >Slytherin. Some editions of the books have this "error" > corrected, but > > >other later editions have the word "ancestor" put back in. JKR > herself > > >suggested that the word ancestor might be used intentionally > in an > > >online chat session. > > > > This is quite a revelation! If she said "might", then I'd say it *is*, > or else > > she would have flat out denied it! Now we're back to my theory > that > > Jo saw the "Ouroboros" episode of _Red Dwarf_ and is now > having > > Voldy pull the same space-time continuum-contorting stunt! > > (No wonder Slytherin's symbol is a serpent -- A serpent with its > tail in > > its mouth!!) > > > > > > > > -- Dave From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 3 05:16:13 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 05:16:13 -0000 Subject: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions In-Reply-To: <92s1hm+e2hq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92ucit+i05p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8396 > I am afraid that I don't find that the H/H 'ers (so to speak) are any > more vocal or dogmatic than the R/H ers or even the no-shippers. > Penny went through the list earlier and numerically speaking, the > difference in number between the R/H shippers posts and the H/H > shippers posts is so small as to be meaningless. (4 messages or so.) > So are we simply saying here that the H/H shippers' posts > are...longer? I admit to some confusion on that point. This time around the posts were basically comparable, but historically it's been 100 H/Hs to 5 R/Hs...if you look back... > > > Finally, I don't really think any H/H ers have said that should Ron > and Hermione get together in the canon, their relationship is de > facto doomed. You might want to review past messages, at least one person referred to a fling that R/H would have that would be basically ill advised and doomed to failure... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 3 05:35:25 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 05:35:25 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <92t3ma+ua87@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92udmt+ukk2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8397 When my mother told me that she had been devastated when a neighborhood kid told me that Santa Claus wasn't real (age 9), I told her not to be upset. I still believe in Santa Claus, I said.... I now know that my brother and father ate the ham and cheese sandwiches that we left for Santa on Christmas Eve, and that I buy and wrap the presents for my kids. So? If Santa and his reindeer arrived on my back lawn or even on the roof, I would be stunned, but not shocked.....or if Father Christmas rode down the lane with his sleigh (as in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe), I would be delighted but not shocked. Are archetypes such as Santa Claus or Harry Potter or the Tin Man or Robin Hood or Zorro any less real than MTV? HP is very powerful and on his way to being the archetype of a generation..magical...fighting evil, etc. Who has read The Number of the Beast? They get to go and participate in any number of "mythical" universes, where energy and emotion has created reality that matched what was once fiction. Certainly, archetypes have great power to inspire people (look at the Enterprise) and therefore to change the future.... Commercials are real? but Father Christmas isn't? Phooey..... Susan From kathleen at carr.org Wed Jan 3 05:46:50 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 00:46:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Poor Poor Neville and my encounter with Ginny Message-ID: <200101030549.f035ntj26797@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8398 I guess you can tell where I am in listening to SS again by my posts lately, but what I really want to know is, how come Harry, Ron, and Hermione seem to leave poor little Neville all on his own after the disastrous losing-150-points-in-one-night-and-now-no-one-will-talk-to-them incident? He's not hanging out with them, and it doesn't sound like anyone else would speak to him. Doesn't it seem awfully unlike Hermione in particular not to take pity on him? By the way, I meant to post this a few days ago and I forgot. In church the other day, I was sitting right behind GINNY WEASLEY. I swear, this girl looked EXACTLY like I picture Ginny. When she turned around for the sign of peace, I felt like I was shaking hands with a celebrity. (I think she heard me telling my dad who she looked like though, cause she kept giving me weird looks.) Kathy (who has seriously considered posting something else about the whole shipper debate just so she can use the subject line "Battle ships", but finds she really has nothing to add) From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 3 05:53:10 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 05:53:10 -0000 Subject: wool socks?OT In-Reply-To: <00b701c074e5$d18bb260$18c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <92ueo6+972g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8399 We have an avalanche of snow here in Michigan.. why don't we set up a tree whereby we each send one pair of wool socks to someone else? From lavieboheme19 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 06:09:13 2001 From: lavieboheme19 at yahoo.com (Ellen Glassie) Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 22:09:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fred or George (was Merchandise for Christmas...) Message-ID: <20010103060913.23555.qmail@web6304.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8400 <> First of all, I would like to apologize for taking so long to respond to this, but I have been in a sans computer state, otherwise known as a "vacation." I think it has been discussed in the past, or maybe it already has and I haven't read it yet (Ah, the joys of lists) but some differences come out between Fred and George in GoF. However, these distinctions are independent from my own preference, as it existed before GoF. Having said that, I'm afraid that my reasons may not be entirely satisfactory. In my not-exactly-grown-up state of mind of 18 (don't throw me off the list, here), my friend Gwyn, also a HP enthusiast, and I decided we were quite enamoured by the twins, in this partial alternate universe that we live in. In typical teenage girl fashion, we decided to figure out 'whose twin was whose,' and I picked Fred because, for some reason, "His finest hour!" (in reaction to Ron's "He (Scabbers) bit Goyle for us once!") cracked me up nearly to the point of cardiac arrest, and this was not an objection on Gwyn's point because her favorite WeasleyTwinsQuote was "But we're not stupid--we know we're called Gred and Forge." (George's). So that's your unsatisfactory reason. Or maybe lack of a reason. I've passed the compliment on to my mum. No, I don't mind maroon; it was one of the school colors of my old High School, so I suppose that's a good thing. Always, NO DAY BUT TODAY, Ellen ===== Angelina_Johnson at HarryPotterNetwork.zzn.com "So, Janey, how was school?" "It was okay." "Just okay?" "No, dad, it was spectacular." American Beauty __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From vderark at bccs.org Wed Jan 3 06:24:46 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 06:24:46 -0000 Subject: Announcing the Hogwarts Journal Message-ID: <92ugje+h9jg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8401 I've added a new section to the Harry Potter Lexicon called the Hogwarts Journal. It's got humor (including some of those filksongs), trivia, and the like. I'll be updating it once a week or so. The first "issue" is now live, so give it a look if you get a chance. On the main page (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon), follow the link to What's New and the journal is right there at the top of the list. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 06:26:12 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 06:26:12 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions References: <92ucit+i05p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000c01c0754e$263859e0$733770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8402 Susan said: > You might want to review past messages, at least one person referred > to a fling that R/H would have that would be basically ill advised > and doomed to failure... I'd say the strength of opinion on this topic varies considerably. For example, in the context of the H/He vs R/He debate I've made the occasional post that would line up with H/He, but I certainly wouldn't throw a tantrum if Ron and Hermione found true love or if all three of them were paired off with other people. I'm basically a no-shipper who only considered this issue because it became an issue. Also, IMO, the tone of many of the posts in this area has been quite light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek even. It's only lately that the Montagues and Capulets have begun squaring up to each other. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 07:30:34 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 01:30:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions References: <92ucit+i05p@eGroups.com> <000c01c0754e$263859e0$733770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <016501c07557$45a946a0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8403 For those who don't know my viewpoint, it's more Harry/Ron, but that's another tale....lol. Seriously, I am with Neil, a no-shipper. I believe that as young adults, they are looking at the opposite for the first time, but the degree of attraction is little.....we shall see it progress however when they return next year! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Ward To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions Susan said: > You might want to review past messages, at least one person referred > to a fling that R/H would have that would be basically ill advised > and doomed to failure... I'd say the strength of opinion on this topic varies considerably. For example, in the context of the H/He vs R/He debate I've made the occasional post that would line up with H/He, but I certainly wouldn't throw a tantrum if Ron and Hermione found true love or if all three of them were paired off with other people. I'm basically a no-shipper who only considered this issue because it became an issue. Also, IMO, the tone of many of the posts in this area has been quite light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek even. It's only lately that the Montagues and Capulets have begun squaring up to each other. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Jan 3 07:30:26 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 07:30:26 -0000 Subject: comments on various threads... Message-ID: <92ukei+t99j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8404 Hello all-- * Susan, your little boy is absolutely adorable; Harry Powder--I love it! * A post mentioned JKR saying that 'someone develops magical powers later in life' and this type of person is different to muggles, wizards, and squibs. I had the impression when she made the comment about late-in-life powers, she was referring to a squib. So, that's wrong, then? In any case, I put my money on Petunia being this person, as well. Could be Filch, but Petunia would seem more fun to me. Plus, this could be the set-up for the redemption of the Dursleys... * Penny, first off, I believe your posts have always been very tactful, diplomatic, well-worded, and reasonable. I've certainly never felt 'attacked' or 'bullied'. Second, after a post you made a few days ago, (I've finally caught up, and don't recall now when this post was), you stated a position basically being: Yes, Ron likes Herm., we don't know how she feels about anyone, and Harry hasn't expressed an interest in anyone other than Cho. Would that be a correct summation? If so, now I have nothing else to say. This sums up my feelings as well. (Though, I'm still expecting it to be H/G and He/R when everything's played out. ) Lots of people have made some good arguments both pro and con, regarding the various ships, and many of the points mentioned hadn't even occurred to me. I can see that the FITD scenario has strong possibilities of playing out, and though the term "square" still doesn't work for me, I can't think of a phrase that is more appropriate. (For 'square' to work, to me, it would have to be A likes B, B likes C, C likes D, and D likes A. If Herm really does like Harry, and Ginny still likes him, then these three would be a triangle. Ron liking Herm, Herm liking Harry, goes to FITD, and sort of a triangle. Either way, it can become interestingly complex, which is really what I hope for.) And, of course, if FITD does happen, great set-up for the betrayal by Ron--Ooooooooo... Truthfully, I never noticed the R/H-ers being as vocal as they've been the last several days, since it was commented that they don't seem to speak up as much. That seemed to have spurred them to come out. I always felt the H/H-ers were more vocal, but only because I can recall various H/H comments in posts concerning other topics. Not in posts arguing their case, just as extraneous comments to the topic they're speaking on. Example-- the X-mas ornaments having to hang together, and your husband rolling on the floor over this, (I thought it was hilarious, too ;o]), or the pillowcases. I always find these remarks charmingly funny; smile every time I read one. It certainly doesn't bother me, in any way, shape, or form. Umm, okay, don't think I'm forgetting anything else to mention regarding this... * Can I make a plea, on my own behalf, as well as that of others on digest? I realise it's not really my place, but I'd like to beg everyone to please, please, please, when replying to a post, please delete the irrelevant parts. There are a number of posts that include the entire post they're replying to, and very often several posts in the thread/conversation are included as well. Thanks! Kelley From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 3 09:37:24 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 20:37:24 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] wool socks?OT Message-ID: <01C075C5.52B3DC20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8405 That's a very cute idea - but since it was at least 35 deg C here and at 8pm is still 28 deg c, I think I'm opting out. storm -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:53 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] wool socks?OT We have an avalanche of snow here in Michigan.. why don't we set up a tree whereby we each send one pair of wool socks to someone else? To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 3 09:48:23 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 20:48:23 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) Message-ID: <01C075C8.DD94CF40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8406 Amy said "Yeah, I would've liked to see Alicia ask Katie to the Yule Ball. " YES! You've got Susan and my vote. Amy said "Well, it's a thought for book 5. Although if JKR has any sense she pays NO attention to the wishes of her fans, even when they are as high-minded as ours ." "Re: PWD's, I don't get at all why they can't be wizards and go to Hogwarts. Just because we don't see any PWD's in the books so far, except Mad-eye (and Lupin I suppose . . . he has a magical equivalents of a physical disability), it doesn't mean there's an impossibility there. JKR makes it clear that magical ability is like a talent for drawing or perfect pitch; it is just a talent that some, not many, humans have in abundance. Why would it only occur among the TAB's (temporarily able-bodied)?" See it seems to me that magical ability *would* occur across the population spread, including PWD's if they existed in this world. But because having relatively poor co-ordination (CP etc) would impact on the 'swish and flick', using a w/c would be near impossible in Hogwarts (no lifts!), some forms of intellectual disability are associated with poor impulse control (hey, so are some forms of being alive!) and this could lead to dangers, not just for the individual and those around them but also for the magical community in general - in terms of visibility and so on. I just think that PWDs don't exist in the JKR universe. storm -----Original Message----- From: Amy Z [SMTP:aiz24 at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 1:03 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 3 09:52:55 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 20:52:55 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] British Harry more honest? Message-ID: <01C075C8.E22A35E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8407 Gee that's quite different eh? I wonder why the change for the US? Your memory serves you *very* well as you are almost word perfect (p117 h/c) so (a) you didn't dream it. As to (b). I have NO idea. storm -----Original Message----- From: Amy Z [SMTP:aiz24 at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 7:06 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] British Harry more honest? Hello chatters, I'm reading the U.S. version of PoA, having previously read the U.K. version. I could swear a line has been changed (significantly, not just a British-to-U.S.-English switch). It's in "Flight of the Fat Lady," p. 155/U.S. hardcover. Herewith the U.S. version: [Lupin said:] "But I didn't think it a good idea for Lord Voldemort to materialize in the staffroom. I imagined that people would panic." "I didn't think of Voldemort," said Harry honestly. "I -- I remembered those dementors." If memory serves, the U.K. version went more like this: "I did think of Voldemort at first," said Harry honestly. "But then I remembered those dementors." The scene to which he refers ("The Boggart in the Wardrobe") is unchanged: he first thinks of a resurrected Voldemort and then remembers the Dementors. Would someone please check and tell me: (a) did I dream it up? and if not, (b) why do you think this change was made? Maybe British kids are just more honest than American kids. (duck) Don't hit! I'm American! Amy - - - - - - - - - - The Whomping Willow was a very violent tree that stood alone in the middle of the grounds. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 3 09:57:13 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 20:57:13 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory Message-ID: <01C075C8.E5B30E80.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8408 Ebony said "Fascinating stuff. Now, all I need to know is if a Time-Turner is only used for short-range time travel... how many turns would it take to go back several years?" bearing in mind that it took 3 turns to go back 3 hours .... the user could be turning for some time!. OTOH you could have them use a spell so that the amount of time moved back is variable eg a turn might represent an hour OR a year OR a month OR some other period. storm From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 3 10:04:40 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:04:40 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's Message-ID: <01C075C8.E8740340.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8409 > > Amy Z wrote: > > > > > In GoF chapter 1, Voldemort tells Wormtail that they just have to > kill one > > > more person and then the way to Harry is clear. Who is he talking > about? Fascinating! I never noticed this. Pippin said: Some editions say "curse" rather than "death" thus referring to the real Mad Eye Moody. Yup, my version says 'curse'. ..But I wonder why Voldemort is worried about this? Is it a limited energy thing? I would not have thought he had any compunctions about killing/curing as many people as possible? storm -----Original Message----- From: foxmoth at qnet.com [SMTP:foxmoth at qnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 4:42 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 12:41:14 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:41:14 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries (admin) Message-ID: <92v6la+80uu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8410 After a break for the Yuletide and other celebrations, we're back to our weekly discussion summaries, so myself and Joywitch (The Chasers) will be after the volunteers on our spanking new Firebolts if things fall behind schedule (note: I think Joywitch is still away attending that Caribbean Sorcery Convention, aka, `lolling on the beach'). Unfortunately, as Penny said, we seem to have lost co-moderator Melanie Ravenclawlady, and she was down to write this week's summaries of Chapter 24 of GoF ? "Rita Skeeter's Scoop" and the characters Draco Malfoy, Vincent Crabbe and Gregory Goyle. If anyone (probably a Draco expert ? hint, hint) would like to take on one or both of these assignments at short notice, please let me know as soon as possible, and Melanie, if you are out there, please get in touch, if only to let us know that you're okay. The people listed below are scheduled to prepare the summaries in the coming weeks and I'd be really grateful if they could send me an owl to confirm that they are still able to do that (I know Joywitch asked this a while back, but I want to be doubly sure). We are onto the major characters now, so it makes sense to check this out now so that the summaries can be posted as early in the week as possible. **Ben Leigh (Ch 25/Lucius Malfoy) ? next week! **Heidi Tandy (Ch 26/James & Lily Potter) **Simon Branford (Ch 27/Peter Pettigrew) **Karin (Ch 28/Neville Longbottom) **Margaret McNie (Ch 29/Remus Lupin) **Neil Ward (Ch 30/Severus Snape) **Carole Estes (Ch 32/Sirius Black) **Vivienne O'Regan (Ch 33/Lord Voldemort) **Susan McGee (Ch 35/Ron Weasley) **Penny Linsenmayer (Ch 36/Hermione Granger) **Alica-Sue Spinnet (Ch 37/Harry Potter). We have a blank on Feb 19th ? 25th as Lizabee had to pull out. This is Chapter 31 ? "The Third Task" and Rubeus Hagrid. Any Hagrid fans fancy taking this one? Unless someone has, unbeknownst to me, told Joywitch they are doing it, the other blank is for Mar 12th-18th, which is for Chapter 34 ("Priori Incantatem" ? which we've never discussed before, of course ) and Albus Dumbledore. I promise not to rehash my Dumbledore posts that week. Neil neilward at dircon.co.uk FOR THE NEWBIES For those of you who joined recently, I should explain that since GoF was released, we have been dissecting it chapter by chapter. Each week, a member of the group writes a short summary of one chapter and poses a few questions to lead off a stimulating and (ahem) FRIENDLY discussion. Each volunteer also writes a summary of one/some of the HP characters with the same objective: we started out with the minor cast and are now moving in on the big players. The summaries are not intended to stifle other discussions and people are free to discuss whatever and whoever they wish within the HP realm. For those who are interested, there is a full list of the scheduled discussions on Melanie's website, at: http://www.geocities.com/ravenclawlady/discussion.html From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 3 13:15:38 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 07:15:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] comments on various threads... References: <92ukei+t99j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5325F9.322A25DA@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8411 Hi -- SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com wrote: > * Penny, first off, I believe your posts have always been very > tactful, diplomatic, well-worded, and reasonable. I've certainly > never felt 'attacked' or 'bullied'. Thanks. :--) > Second, after a post you made a few days ago, (I've finally caught up, > and don't recall now when this post was), you stated a position > basically being: Yes, Ron likes Herm., we don't know how she feels > about anyone, and Harry hasn't expressed an interest in anyone other > than Cho. Would that be a correct summation? That's exactly correct. I don't see why this is so controversial but .... I'm obviously missing something here. :--) > I can see that the FITD scenario has strong possibilities of playing > out, and though the term "square" still doesn't work for me, I can't > think of a phrase that is more appropriate. (For 'square' to work, > to me, it would have to be A likes B, B likes C, C likes D, and D > likes A. If Herm really does like Harry, and Ginny still likes him, > then these three would be a triangle. Yeah, that's true enough. I nearly failed geometry so those types of relational issues befuddle me often. I see your point though. Likewise, I can't think of another word for the situation. FITD may just have to be the one that works for me. > * Can I make a plea, on my own behalf, as well as that of others on > digest? I realise it's not really my place, but I'd like to beg > everyone to please, please, please, when replying to a post, please > delete the irrelevant parts. There are a number of posts that > include the entire post they're replying to, and very often several > posts in the thread/conversation are included as well. Thanks! Yes, please! I second that one. It's best to try & highlight what it is you're referring to and then add your own thoughts *after* what you're referring to (I think). Then, delete everything that follows after you've finished replying to things. Good admin point Kelley! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 3 13:26:36 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 07:26:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Shipper Debates & all other On-TopicDiscussions References: <92ucit+i05p@eGroups.com> <000c01c0754e$263859e0$733770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A53288C.94E5C00B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8412 Hi -- Neil Ward wrote: > Susan said: > > > You might want to review past messages, at least one person referred > > > to a fling that R/H would have that would be basically ill advised > > and doomed to failure... > > I'd say the strength of opinion on this topic varies considerably. > Also, IMO, the tone of many of the posts in this area has been > quite light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek even. It's only lately that the > Montagues and Capulets have begun squaring up to each other. While my basic opinion is how Susan phrased it and I'm clearly one of the ones with rather strong opinions on this particular subject, I think my posts over the last couple of weeks had been more in the light-hearted column (i.e., "I'm siding with Ebony's teenage students," etc.). So, the vociferousness of posts on Sunday took me off-guard to say the least. Like Neil though, I'm hardly going to throw a temper tantrum if JKR writes it differently than I would prefer. These *are* fictional characters, and even though I enjoy the debate, I do have a reasonably healthy perspective on the whole thing. :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Jan 3 13:29:07 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:29:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates References: <92t2cr+tvte@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010102143655.00e6b840@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <007e01c07589$26bd8da0$ea7c06d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8413 About Philip Pullman's trilogie: There were several strong negative reactions from the Church about his books. The NYT article mentions it. http://www.nytimes.com/learning/students/pop/07PULL.html There is still much more banning-talk about the HP books, but as Keith said, it's all about publicity... Dinah From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 3 14:04:31 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:04:31 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] UK versions & how to find them Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE19@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8414 Try http://www.chapters.ca - the Canadian version of Amazon.com. You'll get a great deal with the exchange rate! Angela > -----Original Message----- > From: Cynthia J Bradford [SMTP:cyndee51 at juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 9:55 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: British Harry more honest? and > Hermione's forthrightness > > I am new to HPforGrownups and wonder if you could tell me how to obtain > UK editions of the HP series. From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 14:06:39 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 06:06:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's Message-ID: <20010103140639.3117.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8415 --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Pippin said: Some editions say "curse" rather than > "death" thus referring to > the real Mad Eye Moody. > > Yup, my version says 'curse'. ..But I wonder why > Voldemort is worried about > this? Is it a limited energy thing? I would not have > thought he had any > compunctions about killing/curing as many people as > possible? > > storm > I'm winging it here, as my copies of books are on loan to a friend (well, the Canadian English ones are, and I only have the first 3 in French). I seem to recall that my version said there was only one more *obstacle*, as opposed to *curse* or *death*. I thought the Canadian versions were the same as the UK, could someone check a UK version and let me know what it says? Thanks, Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 3 14:07:24 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:07:24 -0400 Subject: meeting characters in real life Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE1A@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8416 > ----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen Kelly MacMillan [SMTP:kathleen at carr.org] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 1:47 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Poor Poor Neville and my encounter with > Ginny > > > By the way, I meant to post this a few days ago and I forgot. In church > the > other day, I was sitting right behind GINNY WEASLEY. I swear, this girl > looked EXACTLY like I picture Ginny. When she turned around for the sign > of > peace, I felt like I was shaking hands with a celebrity. (I think she > heard > me telling my dad who she looked like though, cause she kept giving me > weird > looks.) > Hey, I work with Professor Trelawney. Skinny little thing* with big bug eye glasses, and she works in the training dept. And she gets very annoyed if you don't hang on her every word with rapt attention during training sessions. Angela * well, she's 8 months pregnant but most of her is still skinny From heiditandy at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 15:48:19 2001 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 07:48:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? etc. Message-ID: <20010103154819.68303.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8417 --- Amy Z wrote: > -Are all Slytherins rotten . . . ? > > > I prefer this idea because otherwise we're left with > the idea that about 25% > of incoming Hogwarts students are evil to start > with, at the tender age of > 11 no less. I think character is much more > malleable than that, and > furthermore, that ambitious and > tempted-to-the-Dark-Side characters are way > more interesting than through-and-through > evil-from-the-start characters. > And as Cassandra & I have discussed numerous times, this is exactly why some of us are so discomforted by the idea that Draco may, in canon, turn out to be evil in the end of Book 7 (or, worse, dead, and evil before that, without ever having worn leather!) - I have a very hard time with that thought - and I'm going to discuss 2 things for a moment which influence how I view slytherin in general & draco in particular - first, an example that Penny will probably jump all over...how many of you read the Little House books? Nellie Olsen is evil in the begining, and evil in the end (of course, neither of her parents in the books are portrayed as killers, whereas Lucius is at least perfectly willing to stand around & watch a homicide) - she's laura's foil, she's described in very superficial ways at times, and she's mean, saracastic and BLOND! You're supposed to dislike her (although in the tv series, after she married the Nice Jewish Boy from NYC, she turns into a terrifically sweet person & great mother) because even Laura needs some teenage angst and a romantic rival (although, of course, Nellie Olsen as described never existed - she's a combination of at least 2 girls Laura knew, but, whatever) Second - how many of you read both Interview with the Vampire AND The Vampire Lestat. Slytherins are like Lestat & the Paris vampires in Interview - we only see them through the eyes of an outsider (louis) who makes conclusions about them without haivng the correct information and knowing the whole picture. Compare this to Harry determining at the first dinner in Book 1 that the Slytherins look like an unplesant lot. While we know more about individual slytherins in harry's year than we do about, say Ravenclaws (only one - Padma - has been mentioned by name) we don't know anything from any perspective other than Harry's, and he is, admittedly, biased against Slytherins, given that TWELVE PLUS YEARS AGO, a lot of death eaters were formerly of Slytherin House - which may have some bearing on the current house given that many of the death eaters have kids in that house (although I'm looking for little Jenny McNair to be sorted into Ravenclaw next year...) but doesn't necessarily mean that those students will have to walk down the Path of Evil. ===== heidi tandy What Maureen Dowd thinks David Souter was thinking on Monday, December 11, 2000: I know the Bushes are furious at me. That'll teach 'em to assume that a guy living like a monk in an isolated New Hampshire farmhouse is some kind of Live Free or Die nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 3 16:16:27 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:16:27 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8418 Heidi said: ** information and knowing the whole picture. Compare ** this to Harry determining at the first dinner in Book ** 1 that the Slytherins look like an unplesant lot. ** While we know more about individual slytherins in ** harry's year than we do about, say Ravenclaws (only ** one - Padma - has been mentioned by name) And Cho... ** we don't ** know anything from any perspective other than Harry's, ** and he is, admittedly, biased against Slytherins, ** given that TWELVE PLUS YEARS AGO, a lot of death ** eaters were formerly of Slytherin House - which may ** have some bearing on the current house given that many ** of the death eaters have kids in that house (although ** I'm looking for little Jenny McNair to be sorted into ** Ravenclaw next year...) but doesn't necessarily mean ** that those students will have to walk down the Path of ** Evil. ** Just to add to this, the book does say that most (all?) of the greatest dark wizards have come from Slytherin, not that most/all Slytherins become dark wizards. Mer From heiditandy at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 16:11:21 2001 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 08:11:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Interim Ruling in Stouffer v. Rowling Message-ID: <20010103161121.71308.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8419 You can read a summary of the decision at http://ipcenter.bna.com/pic/document/1,1103,1_765,00.html The ruling was a mixed bag for Scholastic/JKR. In summary, the court held that Stouffer has the right to present evidence supporting her copyright and trademark claims but not about her defamation and tortious interference with contract claims. 1. The court dismissed Nancy's misrepresentation claims but allowed her to replead them as false designation of origin claims (which is identical to trademark claims). The specific allegations in this counterclaim do not involve any false representations per se, but rather allege that the Harry Potter books misappropriate certain aspects of Stouffer's books. The counterclaim points to: (1) "Muggles" as the name of non-magical characters; (2) the "Harry Potter" and "Lilly Potter" character and names (similar to Stouffer's "Larry Potter" and "Lilly Potter" characters); (3) the "Nelville" character and name (similar to Stouffer's "Nevils" character); (4) the "Keeper of the Keys" (similar to Stouffer's "Keeper of the Gardens"); and (5) "Nimbus" for a flying broom (similar to Stouffer's "Nimbus" for a flying warrior). 2. Judge Schwartz held that Stouffer alleged sufficient facts to support each of the reverse palming off elements. Stouffer alleged that each of the marks, character names, and likenesses were published in her literary works; that Scholastic used the works as its own in promoting its services; that consumers have falsely associated her works with Scholastic's works; and that she has suffered irreparable harm and damages. This doesn't mean that she proved them or has any evidence to support her allegations. All it means is, she said "this is this, and that is that." 3. The court did dismiss Stouffer's claims for defamation and tortious interference with prospective business relations as inadequately plead. Full text at http://pub.bna.com/ptcj/9911480.htm ===== heidi tandy What Maureen Dowd thinks David Souter was thinking on Monday, December 11, 2000: I know the Bushes are furious at me. That'll teach 'em to assume that a guy living like a monk in an isolated New Hampshire farmhouse is some kind of Live Free or Die nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Wed Jan 3 14:21:14 2001 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:21:14 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Yet another random inconsistency.... References: <92u5u2+tn3a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b401c075a1$7dac4440$d2f27ad5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8420 Maybe Hermione's braces were the removable plate kind, and she was doing exactly what I did, which was wear them at home and anywhere the parents might see, wear them for a couple of days straight before visiting the orthodontist, and then bung them in a drawer the rest of the time. Unfortunately, as there were no teeth shrinking spells at my school, and I discovered straight teeth were nice things to have, I consequently ended up wearing braces at the age of 22, which I had to pay for... Alix ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:22 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Yet another random inconsistency.... > In GoF towards the beginning of "The Yule Ball" (chapter), when Ron > notices Hermione's teeth she responds, > "Mum and Dad...wanted me to carry on with my braces..." > > Herm having braces has never been mentioned before, and even if they > were on the inside and thus escaped the Slytherins' acid wit* and > Ron's curiosity, wouldn't they have been noticeably (and comically) > destroyed by the very curse that sent Hermione to Madam Pomfrey in > the first place? > > *Does this acid wit have anything to do with having a Potions master > as Head of House, perhaps? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 17:28:59 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:28:59 -0000 Subject: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) In-Reply-To: <01C075C8.DD94CF40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <92vngr+7f36@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8421 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: >> See it seems to me that magical ability *would* occur across the population > spread, including PWD's if they existed in this world. > I just think that PWDs don't exist in the JKR universe. Wow, Storm, I take the opposite view. I think that magical ability *could* show up in children/adults with mental and physical challenges. If Harry is myopic, I'm sure there could be blind witches and wizards. If Eloise has acne, perhaps an autistic child could have great talent in Potions-making. Perhaps there are cures in the magical world for these ailments/challenges. However, I subscribe to the theory that magic is genetic in this fictional world. If there are genetic irregularities in other areas, they might affect the magic gene(s), but then again they might not. What I'm thinking is that certain aspects of the magical genetic sequence could be influenced by powerful, perhaps biotechnically sinister Dark Magic. For instance, someone's ability to fly might be impaired, but they'd still be able to walk normally. Hmm... --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 17:33:22 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:33:22 -0000 Subject: Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory In-Reply-To: <01C075C8.E5B30E80.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <92vnp2+2uh2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8422 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > > bearing in mind that it took 3 turns to go back 3 hours .... the user could be > turning for some time!. OTOH you could have them use a spell so that the amount > of time moved back is variable eg a turn might represent an hour OR a year OR a > month OR some other period. Thanks a million, Storm! This makes sense... a simple rotation spell would do the trick. BTW--is anyone on list well versed in Arthurian legend? Please e-mail me... --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 18:03:50 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:03:50 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <007e01c07589$26bd8da0$ea7c06d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <92vpi6+psec@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8423 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > About Philip Pullman's trilogie: > > There were several strong negative reactions from the Church about his > books. The NYT article mentions it... You know, at the church I currently attend, the reading of *most* fantasy literature is very seriously frowned upon. So is teaching children to believe in Santa Claus. So is most imaginative material that teaches children "untruths". So is listening to secular music. So are trading card games like "Magic: The Gathering" and "Pokemon". It's all a matter of perspective. I did *not* start this thread to imply that Christians were evil or stupid or killjoys. Quite the contrary. I think people are people, and we are much more alike than we are different. There are Christians who read and enjoy Pullman's books--some of us can make a clear distinction between the dictates of the church visible and the church invisible. (Lewis himself makes this distinction in the novel "The Screwtape Letters.) But there are Christians who feel that this material is harmful to not only themselves, but society as a whole. Finally, I'm not sure I buy the assertion that Lewis was anything *but* Christian... to say that would imply a definition of Christianity in the narrowest possible terms. I've read his fiction, but his non-fiction works are just as significant and personally more meaningful to my current life-stage (my favorite so far is "The Four Loves"). I believe he was merely a thinking Christian... and perhaps one of the most influential Church thinkers of the age. To bring this back to the topic: if it wasn't for reading Lewis' nonfiction/theological works a few years back, I'm not sure I would have ever read Harry Potter. --Ebony From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Wed Jan 3 18:03:59 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 18:03:59 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Weekly summaries (admin) References: <92v6la+80uu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000a01c075af$8d2ae8a0$312f7bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8424 We have a blank on Feb 19th 25th as Lizabee had to pull out. This is Chapter 31 "The Third Task" and Rubeus Hagrid. Any Hagrid fans fancy taking this one? Hi I'm up for that !! Michelle From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 3 18:09:46 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:09:46 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries (admin) In-Reply-To: <92v6la+80uu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92vpta+5urf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8425 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > > Unless someone has, unbeknownst to me, told Joywitch they are doing > it, the other blank is for Mar 12th-18th, which is for Chapter 34 > ("Priori Incantatem" ? which we've never discussed > before, of course > ) and Albus Dumbledore. I'd be willing to undertake that chapter. - CMC From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 3 18:11:24 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (snuffles ) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:11:24 -0000 Subject: Time Paradox- VERY Interesting theory In-Reply-To: <92vnp2+2uh2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92vq0c+c8fm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8426 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: This makes sense... a simple rotation spell would do the trick. Ebony - ROFL - this is increadabily funny! storm > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > wrote: > > > > bearing in mind that it took 3 turns to go back 3 hours .... the > user could be > > turning for some time!. OTOH you could have them use a spell > so that the amount > > of time moved back is variable eg a turn might represent an > hour OR a year OR a > > month OR some other period. > > Thanks a million, Storm! This makes sense... a simple rotation > spell would do the trick. > > BTW--is anyone on list well versed in Arthurian legend? Please > e-mail me... > > --Ebony From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 18:21:44 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:21:44 -0000 Subject: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92vqjo+i342@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8427 <<>> Following on from interesting posts by Amy and Heidi on this topic, I'm inspired to write something... I don't think all Slytherins are evil. In fact, I doubt that any of them in Harry's generation are evil. True, Draco is a spoilt and obnoxious little snide, but his sort of school bully is a coward whose attitude invariably comes from his own insecurity and, perhaps, loveless family background. In public, Draco appears to be proud of his heritage, and he probably is to an extent, but he is his father's son, and, IMO, he is heavily influenced and ruled by Lucius. [A roll on the drums] I'm wheeling out the `Harry's point of view' argument once again: Harry's experience of Slytherin is mainly through his interactions with Draco and his henchboys and, although many of the other Slytherins are portrayed as fairly vulgar in character and appearance this may just be Harry's view of them, coloured by his encounters with Draco (and, by association, Voldemort). Okay, there were some Slytherins among the Death Eaters, but should we assume that the children of these people are, without fail, as bad as their parents? Perhaps Slytherins of a certain age were drawn to Voldemort because they were part of a close-knit group, which included only a few genuine supporters; they were ensnared by the `cult' before they knew where they were and lived to regret it (to me, this what happened to Snape). There is a tradition in the school of Slytherin House playing up certain negative characteristics, and the kids from the other Houses, particularly Gryffindor, buy into that "they-a re-our-mortal-enemy" thinking and, perhaps, see villainy where there is none. How much of the generic Slytherin character is real and how much of it embroidery for in the name of lore? It seems to me very unlikely that every child in Slytherin is a baddie, even if most of the Dark Wizards are bred there. We may wonder why Hermione ? an obvious Ravenclaw ? was sorted to Gryffindor. We may also wonder why Cedric ? who showed great courage and strength in the Triwizard Tournament ? was sorted to Hufflepuff. I'd say it's because the House characteristics are generalisations and the children are not fixed, unchanging entities. There is a tendency in life to pigeonhole people according to group characteristics and then assume that everyone who identifies with that group shares the associated traits. The diversity of the views expressed in this group alone should be a good indicator of the error of assuming that all `XYZs' are the same. Having written Slytherin into a fairly rigid definition, I think JKR now has an opportunity to challenge the assumptions she has encouraged and make the reader think twice about stereotyping people. Um, sorry. This got a teensy bit long. Did you stay awake? Neil PS - sorry about the odd line breaks: I can't get rid of them for some reason From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 18:22:24 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Roger) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 10:22:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] wool socks?OT Message-ID: <20010103182224.14801.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8428 I love the idea, but what do you do for those of us who, unfortuneately, are quite allergic to wool? :( Wears cotton. Sighs. And argoyle just look so nice. (Looks to the television, where Willy Wonka is starting again....maybe we get get Ian hooked on the video of Harry Potter when it comes out like he is on this one?) --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > That's a very cute idea - but since it was at least > 35 deg C here and at 8pm is > still 28 deg c, I think I'm opting out. > > storm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:53 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] wool socks?OT > > We have an avalanche of snow here in Michigan.. > why don't we set up a tree whereby we each > send one pair of wool socks to someone else? > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > ===== :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 20:56:28 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 15:56:28 -0500 Subject: Class Schedule Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8429 Charmian wrote: "At midnight! It seems as if that would tend to mess up the scheduling a bit. I take it that Harry and co. don't take Astronomy after the first year, nor flying lessons." Scott wrote: Perhaps Astronomy is prerequisite for Divination. It seems to be required at least into year 3. "[Harry] was sorely tempted, too, by the perfect, moving model of the galaxy in a large glass ball, which would have meant he never had to take another Astronomy lesson." (PoA, "The Leaky Cauldron," p. 50/U.S.) More late-night lessons for Harry & co. Amy who wants a perfect, moving model of the galaxy AND Astronomy lessons! - - - - - - - - - - The Whomping Willow was a very violent tree that stood alone in the middle of the grounds. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 18:37:48 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:37:48 -0000 Subject: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) In-Reply-To: <92vngr+7f36@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92vrhs+pci4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8430 Ebony said, re PWDs <<>> I agree with the last point in particular, since autistic children are often noted for being prodigious in a single area. In the magical world, I imagine being a squib is on a par with dyslexia or even blindness. That is, if we regard magical ability as being something pitched between a skill and a sense. Neil From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Jan 3 18:41:29 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 19:41:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] religion debates/ bannings (OT) References: <92vpi6+psec@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001801c075b4$c9962fc0$c92e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8431 > It's all a matter of perspective. I did *not* start this thread to imply > that Christians were evil or stupid or killjoys. Quite the contrary. I > think people are people, and we are much more alike than we > are different. There are Christians who read and enjoy > Pullman's books--some of us can make a clear distinction > between the dictates of the church visible and the church > invisible. I know exactly what you mean. I live in a very small village and our preacher who gave religion classes taught us things no "normal" Roman Catholic. He hasn't been on holiday for over 20 years because he's afraid that his fill-in could "spoil" his community. Although I still am "officially" RC, I found my true believe in a very different corner of religion, but I'm still attending rel. classes in school because my current teacher is that brilliant. Although he has very strong, sometimes old-fashionend opinions he is willing to discuss, willing to learn new things and willing to say things that aren't traditional catholic at all. The point in the Book Banning Discussion is to define "Blasphemy" - and although I think that one should accept the opinions and believes of other people I just get upset (and a bit hot-headed) when someone clings to his opinions when they are based on narrow-mindedness. And I think that's what is happening in the paper/trial discussions. Dinah From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 3 18:51:35 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:51:35 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries (admin) In-Reply-To: <92vpta+5urf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92vsbn+704u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8432 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" > wrote: > > > > > Unless someone has, unbeknownst to me, told Joywitch they are doing > > it, the other blank is for Mar 12th-18th, which is for Chapter 34 > > ("Priori Incantatem" ? which we've never discussed > > before, of course > > ) and Albus Dumbledore. > > I'd be willing to undertake that chapter. > > - CMC I had already spoken to Joywitch about doing Chapter 34 ages ago, but I guess she never forwarded that information on to Neil. Jeralyn, the voicelady From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 3 19:07:05 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 19:07:05 -0000 Subject: Hello and various stuff Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8433 Well I guess I better start by saying Happy New Year. It must be a couple of weeks since I last annoyed you all with a message, so decided it was time I started again! Apologies in advance if any of the answers or comments I make have already been made, I have over 1000 messages from this group to wade through and have not done so yet (not to mention some fan fic.). Also apologies about the complete lack of structure to this message. Penny wrote: ": Do you Brits call this subject "maths" as short for mathematics??? I'd always wondered why you called it maths, as though its plural. Learn something everyday!" Mathematics is plural as it a collective term, covering a wide range of topics (such as geometry, arithmetic and lots of other equally boring stuff). Technically it should be 'the mathematics', but in recent years the 'the' has been lost of the beginning. So it is the natural thing to also make the shortened form plural as well. I could go on, but I guess you all would get very bored with me very quickly. Penny wrote: "FAQS -- The FAQ group is still hard at work! We have given some consideration to approaching a publisher about publishing them in a non-web site format, but haven't made any real progress. Yes .... close to 15,000. You people are quite prolifiic (as if *I* haven't contributed at all ... cough)!" I am finding it hard enough to actually produce the things in the first place without worrying about what we do after that! I have read through most of those messages in my period of writing FAQ's, and if you ever want to learn anything about your writing style (etc.) then going back and reading messages you wrote a long time ago can be very amusing. Must be over 16000 messages by now! Penny wrote: "DEAN THOMAS -- Dean Thomas is in Harry's year and should have been sorted with the others, so if he wasn't sorted in the UK editions (not going to the den to look), it's an error in that edition." We only saw the sorting of a few people in PS not the whole year, and only get told the houses of a few. The error seems to have entered in the American edition. In this the detail is added in that Dean is black, and in doing so the error over three / four people comes into the book (it says three people left to sort when in fact there are four - may have changed in later printings). Simon From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 19:08:52 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 19:08:52 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries (admin) In-Reply-To: <92vsbn+704u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92vtc4+kd5n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8434 I wrote: <<) and Albus Dumbledore.>>> CMC said: <> Jeralyn said: Oooops! Perhaps she did tell me and I lost the message. Serves me right for using the word 'unbeknownst' in a sentence. Unfortunately, Melanie isn't around to update the information on her website, so it still says 'OPEN' for that date. With Joywitch being abroad, I couldn't be certain, so I thought, 'I may as well mention it while I'm mentioning all the other stuff'. Jeralyn, am I correct in assuming you are also doing the Dumbledore summary that week? Caius, unless you had your heart set on that pairing alone, there may be others on offer if people drop out. Would you be willing to do one of those, should that happen? You wouldn't have to set it to music... Sincere apologies for the confusion. What am I like? Oh, and thanks to Michelle for stepping in to replace Lizabee. Neil (e-mail offlist: neilward at dircon.co.uk) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 19:16:06 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Roger) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 11:16:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: OT Arthurian legends.... Message-ID: <20010103191606.24443.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8435 Check out the club at this link. You don't have to join, but several of the members are very knowledgeable, as are alot of the posts....... Hope this helps? ~Dee~ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/camelot495admessageboard ===== :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 3 19:16:09 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 19:16:09 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries (admin) In-Reply-To: <92vtc4+kd5n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <92vtpp+mcmn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8436 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > [snip]so it still says 'OPEN' for that date. With Joywitch being abroad, I couldn't be certain, so I thought, 'I may as well mention it while I'm mentioning all the other stuff'. Jeralyn, am I correct in assuming you are also doing the Dumbledore summary that week? > > Caius, unless you had your heart set on that pairing alone, there may be others on offer if people drop out. Would you be willing to do one of those, should that happen? You wouldn't have to set it to music... Yes, I was given both jobs, but if Caius would like (and I'm betting he would!), I'll take care of the chapter summary, and he could handle Dumbledore's character summary. Does that sound fair? Jeralyn, the voicelady From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 3 20:03:17 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 16:03:17 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE1B@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8437 > -----Original Message----- > From: heidi tandy [SMTP:heiditandy at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 11:48 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the > bone? etc. > > > > .how many of you read the Little House books? > Nellie Olsen is evil in the begining, and evil in the > end (of course, neither of her parents in the books > are portrayed as killers, whereas Lucius is at least > perfectly willing to stand around & watch a homicide) > - she's laura's foil, she's described in very > superficial ways at times, and she's mean, saracastic > and BLOND! You're supposed to dislike her (although in > the tv series, after she married the Nice Jewish Boy > from NYC, she turns into a terrifically sweet person & > great mother) because even Laura needs some teenage > angst and a romantic rival (although, of course, > Nellie Olsen as described never existed - she's a > combination of at least 2 girls Laura knew, but, > whatever) > > There's a big difference between picking on Laura Ingalls because she's poor and wanting "Mudbloods" to be killed. Nellie may have been mean, but if a vampire came to Walnut Grove and started attacking anyone not of pure Scandinavian stock, I'd think she'd be hiding, not cheering. Vampires in Walnut Grove. This list brings out the weirdness in me. ;-) It could be that very deep, there may be a tiny spark of decency within Draco. I suppose it was nice that he supported Cedric, also not a Slytherin, but I think his motive was to hurt Harry. Maybe this is something that has been covered before, but has anyone compiled a list of Draco's redeeming qualities/acts? I'm curious as to why there is such a pro-Draco fan base out there. I'm in the midst of rereading GoF, and was pondering the section when Moody/Junior turns Draco into a ferret. (Very appropriate choice of animal!) He isn't just doing it because he wants to continue the masquerade of being Moody, he's doing it because he is Lucius's son, and if there's one thing either Moody or Junior can't stand, it's a Death Eater who got away/betrayed Voldemort. Draco is turning out very much like Lucius, if you ask me. > Second - how many of you read both Interview with the > Vampire AND The Vampire Lestat. Slytherins are like > Lestat & the Paris vampires in Interview - we only see > them through the eyes of an outsider (louis) who makes > conclusions about them without haivng the correct > information and knowing the whole picture. Compare > this to Harry determining at the first dinner in Book > 1 that the Slytherins look like an unplesant lot. > While we know more about individual slytherins in > harry's year than we do about, say Ravenclaws (only > one - Padma - has been mentioned by name) we don't > know anything from any perspective other than Harry's, > and he is, admittedly, biased against Slytherins, > given that TWELVE PLUS YEARS AGO, a lot of death > eaters were formerly of Slytherin House - which may > have some bearing on the current house given that many > of the death eaters have kids in that house (although > I'm looking for little Jenny McNair to be sorted into > Ravenclaw next year...) but doesn't necessarily mean > that those students will have to walk down the Path of > Evil. I think Harry is biased against the Syltherins because they pick on him, make fun of him at every opportunity (thank you, Rita Skeeter), and wear "Harry Potter Stinks" badges. He was cautious about the Slytherins, and didn't want to be in their house, because of their reputation. The current students haven't done much to improve that. Picking on kids like Harry or Laura doesn't mean someone is doomed for evil. But they aren't indications that someone will grow up and kind and helpful either. It happens on TV, where Michael Landon's benevolent presence makes even spiteful blondes grow hearts. Maybe it can happen in a Voldemort ravaged world. Angela From Amy_kuras at yahoo.com Wed Jan 3 20:19:58 2001 From: Amy_kuras at yahoo.com (Amy_kuras at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:19:58 -0000 Subject: new person Message-ID: <9301he+abqo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8438 Hi everyone!! I just joined and also just finished PA and GoF over my Christmas break from work(my darling husband bought them for me). I'm hooked--and got hooked on joining a group when people pointed out the inconsistency about who came out of the wand--and also the ancestor/descendant thing in COS. Is it the opinion of most people here that those were on purpose or that they were typos? Given that I have CoS in paperback--wouldn't that be fixed by the paperback version? Although, having worked in publishing most of my career, I know firsthand how some boneheaded errors get throught without anyone catching them. Also, what do people here think about the casting? Based on looks alone, I think Harry is good, Ron is exactly how I picture him, and Hermione is ALL WRONG. The little girl they cast is much too blond and much too pretty. As a dark-haired woman who thinks there's a lot of "blondism" in society :-) I didn't like that the Hermione merch. I saw this Christmas and the girl in the movie are so blond. Just a dumb nitpicky thing :-)... Also, and I am sorry if this is a really stupid question but I have been surfing for two days trying to find the answer...is there a release date (even ballpark, or rumored) for the next book? Thanks! Looking forward to getting to know you all!! Amy From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 20:49:30 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:49:30 -0500 Subject: Those forthright Americans (was Re: British Harry more honest?...) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8439 Another one along the lines of pee/go to the loo: on the Hogwarts Express in PoA/U.S., Ron says "I'm not going to take any crap from Malfoy this year" (U.K. has "rubbish"). I nearly jumped out of my seat when that came across my speakers. "Crap" is by far the most off-color word in any of the books and it jarred. Elsewhere "rubbish" is left as is or translated to "garbage," I believe, on some occasions. That seems more equivalent to my ears, just as "go to the bathroom" seems to be the politeness-equivalent to "go to the loo." I really am not a fan of doing any British-American "translating." One of the great pleasures of reading C.S. Lewis etc. as a kid was encountering different expressions, spellings, etc. It fed my love of language and generated some interesting questions about etymologies (like, how did we get from jumper to sweater? or was it vice versa?). On the other hand, searching out the changes is a fun game in itself! Amy - - - - - - - - - - The Whomping Willow was a very violent tree that stood alone in the middle of the grounds. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 20:52:31 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:52:31 -0500 Subject: comments on various threads... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8440 Kelley wrote: >. Plus, this could be the set-up for the redemption of the Dursleys... Great title for Book 7: Harry Potter and the Redemption of the Dursleys! Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Jan 3 20:54:10 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:54:10 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. References: Message-ID: <004f01c075c7$53823dc0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8441 Meredith wrote: > Heidi said: > > ** information and knowing the whole picture. Compare > ** this to Harry determining at the first dinner in Book > ** 1 that the Slytherins look like an unplesant lot. > ** While we know more about individual slytherins in > ** harry's year than we do about, say Ravenclaws (only > ** one - Padma - has been mentioned by name) > > And Cho... Cho is not in Harry's year. Simon. From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 3 21:02:10 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:02:10 -0000 Subject: new person and Flints! In-Reply-To: <9301he+abqo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93040i+sk0n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8442 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amy_kuras at y... wrote: > Hi everyone!! I just joined and also just finished PA and GoF over my Christmas break from work(my darling husband bought them for me). I'm hooked--and got > hooked on joining a group when people pointed out the inconsistency about who came out of the wand--and also the ancestor/descendant thing in COS. > > Is it the opinion of most people here that those were on purpose or that they were typos? Hi Amy! I would never dare to speak for "most people here", suffice it to say there is fairly good reason to assume that both are Flints. A Flint is a boneheaded error named (by me) in honor of Slytherin Marcus Flint, who has had to repeat a year at Hogwarts, given that he should have graduated by PoA, but was still playing Quidditch. The Wand Order thing has been changed: you can read the new text in the files section of this egroup. As for the ancestor/descendant thing, some editions say ancestor, some later editions have descendant, some even later editions have ancestor. It may be that this started out as an error, but Rowling is toying with the idea of incorporating it into the story. Quite a few people on this list think she should have done that with the wand order bit. The wonderful people on this group are preparing a Frequently Asked Questions list which should be out Real Soon Now. (ducks objects thrown by the incredibly hard working FAQ committee). In the meantime, you can get a run down on some of the theories proposed to account for the wand order and ancestor/descendant things at the Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ > Also, and I am sorry if this is a really stupid question but I have been surfing for two days trying to find the answer...is there a release date (even ballpark, or rumored) > for the next book? Only that it won't be this year, and should be in 2002. I want JKR to take her time and mystify us properly, not with typos that turn out to be clues and vice versa. Pippin From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 21:08:20 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:08:20 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Weekly summaries (admin) References: <92v6la+80uu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009d01c075c9$675872e0$283770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8443 I said: <<>> and now I respond to myself: In the excitement over confirming future summary assignments, I forgot my initial reason for posting - to find volunteers for this week!! I think we can safely assume that Melanie has jumped on a passing ship and sailed off into the sunset, so any takers to write summaries for Draco Malfoy (and Crabbe/Goyle) and/or Chapter 24, please get in touch. Under the circumstances, I guess any ensuing discussion will spill over into next week and overlap with next week's summaries. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 3 21:10:42 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:10:42 -0000 Subject: your pregnancy In-Reply-To: <3A514389.B25447F9@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9304gi+f2em@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8444 Penny, I'm so sorry you're having pain and trouble in your pregnancy. AND you had a nesting urge, obviously, so you HAD to clean the house. I had some major stressors in my adoptions (particularly the first one) and it was hell, so I can empathize. Just to let you know that I'm sending good energy your way. Susan P.S. How many hours per week do you need people to commit to? What tasks are there? I'm happy to do something boring and administrative if that will help out. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 3 21:12:29 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:12:29 -0000 Subject: The Riddler (filk) Message-ID: <9304jt+tfq2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8445 The Riddler (to the tune of The Wanderer) (The Scene: The Chamber of Secrets. TOM RIDDLE has just disclosed his true identity to HARRY POTTER) TOM RIDDLE: For 50 years or so I've been a-livin' in this book The only thing I needed was that someone take a look I was carrying on quite nicely through our Ginny W. But then you got my diary, now you're in trouble too! Just call me Tom Riddle, y'all I'm like Voldy's Id `n' all I'm so renowned, renowned, renowned, renowned You resemble me quite closely, we are both so very young We're Muggle-bred, we're brilliant, and we both do Parseltongue I'd like to say more to you, but I fear I must be brisk It's time to introduce you to my beloved basilisk For a fight he is spoilin' Just watch him uncoilin' He's now unwound, unwound, unwound, unwound (The basilisk converges menacingly toward Harry. Fawkes flies to him, carrying the sorting hat) Well, you must be kiddin' me Could anything be more absurd Than that you'll rid yourself of me With that worn-out hat and that preposterous bird? (Harry pulls the sword of Gryffindor from the sorting hat. He slays the basilisk with it, but is apparently mortally wounded in turn ? until he is revived by the tears of Fawkes). HARRY: I admit to you, Tom Riddle, that your snake's bite has some sting But a teardrop from a Phoenix can deprive it of its zing That magic book of yours is bad, it leads children astray I've an evangelic fervor now to ban it straightaway Though I'm being judgementally I think fundamentally You're now aground aground aground aground (he plunges the sword in the book, causing Riddle to vanish) - CMC From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 3 21:27:47 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:27:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. References: Message-ID: <3A539953.ED3AF808@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8446 Meredith Wilson wrote: > Heidi said: > > ** information and knowing the whole picture. Compare > ** this to Harry determining at the first dinner in Book > ** 1 that the Slytherins look like an unplesant lot. > ** While we know more about individual slytherins in > ** harry's year than we do about, say Ravenclaws (only > ** one - Padma - has been mentioned by name) > > And Cho... No, she's a year older. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 3 21:37:35 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:37:35 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries (admin) In-Reply-To: <92vtc4+kd5n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93062v+dlju@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8447 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > I wrote: > > > > Caius, unless you had your heart set on that pairing alone, there may > be others on offer if people drop out. Would you be willing to do > one of those, should that happen? No problem - just let me know............ You wouldn't have to set it to > music... Oh, but maybe I'd want to............... - CMC From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 3 21:35:33 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:35:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE1B@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <3A539B25.DB5DC802@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8448 ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > I think Harry is biased against the Syltherins because they pick on > him, make fun of him at every opportunity (thank you, Rita Skeeter), and > wear "Harry Potter Stinks" badges. He was cautious about the Slytherins, and > didn't want to be in their house, because of their reputation. The current > students haven't done much to improve that. By book 4, sure, but that's after 3 years of history between them - in book 1, the worst thing Draco does is inform on them when they actually are breaking a bunch of school rules (although after that there's a little Making Fun Of Harry by Slytherins but given that noone in Gryffendor is speaking to him either, I can't see how that's such a *bad* thing. A whole bunch of Slytherins stood up to (a) toast him at the farewell dinner in Book 4, and (b) toasted cedric. Are we ever going to meet any of those "not necessarily evil" slytherins? From sara.ludwig at telia.com Wed Jan 3 21:41:13 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:41:13 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's References: <20010103140639.3117.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016b01c075ce$c3101de0$26c116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8449 What page is this on, please. I could check if I knew, can't reread the whole book though. catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Sheryll Townsend Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 15:06 ?mne: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Pippin said: Some editions say "curse" rather than > "death" thus referring to > the real Mad Eye Moody. > > Yup, my version says 'curse'. ..But I wonder why > Voldemort is worried about > this? Is it a limited energy thing? I would not have > thought he had any > compunctions about killing/curing as many people as > possible? > > storm > I'm winging it here, as my copies of books are on loan to a friend (well, the Canadian English ones are, and I only have the first 3 in French). I seem to recall that my version said there was only one more *obstacle*, as opposed to *curse* or *death*. I thought the Canadian versions were the same as the UK, could someone check a UK version and let me know what it says? Thanks, Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 22:16:44 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:16:44 -0500 Subject: Are all Slytherins . . . Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8450 Neil the Flying Ford Anglia wrote: >I don't think all Slytherins are evil. In fact, I doubt that any >of them in Harry's generation are evil. True, Draco is a spoilt and >obnoxious little snide, but his sort of school bully is a coward whose >attitude invariably comes from his own insecurity and, perhaps, loveless >family background. In public, Draco appears to be proud of his heritage, >and he probably is to an extent, but he is his >father's son, and, IMO, he is heavily influenced and ruled by >Lucius. And take a look at the scene in Knockturn Alley in CoS. Lucius isn't the kindliest dad. Of course, back-to-school shopping would put any parent in a bad mood. I think, whether loveless or loved, Draco seems like a lot of kids whose parents have a "pureblood" attitude--they go into school thinking they're better than anyone else, and have a hard time adjusting to the fact that not everyone gives a fig that they're pureblood or that their ancestors came over on the Mayflower or whatever it might be. This makes for insecure little bullies, some of whom grow out of it over time. Ooh, let's all psychoanalyze Draco! This is fun! Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 22:17:52 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:17:52 -0000 Subject: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9308eg+3vbg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8451 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Meredith Wilson wrote: > Just to add to this, the book does say that most (all?) of the greatest dark > wizards have come from Slytherin, not that most/all Slytherins become dark > wizards. > > Mer Yes, and the quote that people are remembering was from Hagrid in PoS/SoS, and it was probably very offhand, as it isn't consistent with what Hagrid and everyone else believes to be true. That is, everyone at the time mistakenly believed Sirius Black to be on the side of evil. I also doubt that Pettigrew was in Slytherin, although there is no textual evidence to support this (though one can't really call him a *great* dark wizard). Plus there have got to be dark wizards from other countries too. (Wonder what the American institution of magic is like?) Charmian From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 22:21:26 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:21:26 -0500 Subject: Hermione through the eyes of kids/adults Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8452 Neil's post on the complexities of Draco's character got another train of thought rolling. My completely unscientific study of kids'-vs.-adults' reactions to the book reveals that kids are much less tolerant of Hermione. They frequently comment that she's thoroughly obnoxious, a know-it-all, etc. JKR doesn't write her as a caricature by any means, but many kids seem to read her that way just the same. On the HPforGU poll, in contrast, Hermione is one of the most loved characters. To be fair, many of the kids' comments were probably made when they had read only 1 or 2 of the books. But I think adults tend to have a perspective on the bossy know-it-all kid that allows us to see the complexity of her character and sympathize with the reasons behind her less admirable qualities. Another possibility is that those kids who do relate to Hermione keep fairly quiet about it (I would've). What do you think? Amy -------------------------------------------------- ". . . they made their way into the entrance hall, which was completely devoid of mad axe-men." _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 3 22:27:41 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:27:41 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco . . . References: Message-ID: <010001c075d4$630eba40$283770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8453 Amy Z said: > I think, whether loveless or loved, Draco seems like a lot of kids whose > parents have a "pureblood" attitude--they go into school thinking they're > better than anyone else, and have a hard time adjusting to the fact that not > everyone gives a fig that they're pureblood or that their ancestors came > over on the Mayflower or whatever it might be. This makes for insecure > little bullies, some of whom grow out of it over time. > > Ooh, let's all psychoanalyze Draco! This is fun! Funnily enough, Draco *is* the character scheduled for discussion this week, and here we are discussing him without the aid of a safety net! It was meant to be, I guess... Heidi has kindly offered to write the lead-off summary, which will, I'm sure, focus our thoughts even more on dear Draco. I wonder if we can get through this without mention of leather trousers? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 3 22:36:11 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:36:11 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8454 ** Meredith wrote: ** > Heidi said: ** > ** > ** information and knowing the whole picture. Compare ** > ** this to Harry determining at the first dinner in Book ** > ** 1 that the Slytherins look like an unplesant lot. ** > ** While we know more about individual slytherins in ** > ** harry's year than we do about, say Ravenclaws (only ** > ** one - Padma - has been mentioned by name) ** > ** > And Cho... ** ** Cho is not in Harry's year. ** ** Simon. ** Right... she's a Fifth year. Oops. Mer From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 3 22:33:27 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:33:27 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's In-Reply-To: <016b01c075ce$c3101de0$26c116c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <9309bn+s7ua@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8455 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > What page is this on, please. > I could check if I knew, can't reread the whole book though. > catrina > --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > > Pippin said: Some editions say "curse" rather than > > "death" thus referring to > > the real Mad Eye Moody. > > > > Yup, my version says 'curse'. ..But I wonder why > > Voldemort is worried about > > this? Is it a limited energy thing? I would not have > > thought he had any > > compunctions about killing/curing as many people as > > possible? > > > > storm > > > I'm winging it here, as my copies of books are on loan > to a friend (well, the Canadian English ones are, and > I only have the first 3 in French). I seem to recall > that my version said there was only one more > *obstacle*, as opposed to *curse* or *death*. I > thought the Canadian versions were the same as the UK, > could someone check a UK version and let me know what > it says? > > Thanks, > Sheryll My British edition, Gof Chapter 1 p.15 Wormtail :'and if we proceed, if I curse--' 'If?' whispered the first voice. 'If? If you follow the plan, Wormtail, the Ministry need never know that anyone else has disappeared. You will do it quietly and without fuss; I only wish that I could do it myself, but in my present condition...come, Wormtail one more obstacle removed and our path to Harry Potter is clear.' USA p10. " and if we proceed, if I murder--" "If?" whispered the first voice. "If? If you follow the plan, Wormtail, the Ministry need never know that anyone else has died. You will do it quietly and without fuss; I only wish that I could do it myself, but in my present condition...come, Wormtail one more death and our path to Harry Potter is clear." British p.16 Voldemort: 'One more curse...my faithful servant at Hogwarts" USA p.12 "One more murder...my faithful servant at Hogwarts" In an earlier post I said the curse in question was the one placed on the real Mad-Eye. On re-reading, it seems more likely to refer to the imperius curse placed by Wormtail on Barty Crouch Sr. Voldemort's reservations, IMHO, are engendered by having to entrust such a critical part of his plans to Wormtail. It sounds as though Voldie was afraid to accompany Wormtail on the mission to curse Crouch, for fear that Wormie might switch sides again, and rat him out to Crouch Sr. Barty Sr. was eventually killed, by Barty Jr, but Voldemort's original plan seems to have been to keep the Sr. Crouch alive and visible so as not to alarm the Ministry. Confusing, ain't it? Pippin From hermione_heidi at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 23:11:05 2001 From: hermione_heidi at hotmail.com (Heidi Henshaw) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 19:11:05 -0400 Subject: book relese rumor Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8456 I've heard a rumor that the next HP book will be released at the same time that PS movie is released on November 16, 2001. I don't remember where I heard or read this and it might just be a figment of my imagination but if anyone possibly knows if this is false information I would appreciate it. Heidi Henshaw _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From john at walton.to Thu Jan 4 00:07:37 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:07:37 +0000 Subject: Santa/Father Christmas in Narnia (was: HP religion debate) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010102162454.00c056f0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8457 Dave Hardenbrook at DaveH47 at mindspring.com wrote: > Do you think Santa will show up later in the series? (He's appeared > in Oz and Narnia, why not Hogwarts?) :) Au contraire -- *Santa* did not appear in Narnia. *Father Christmas* appeared in Narnia. It may sound like a triviality, but I'm sure there're a lot of people who'd object to lumping the (Homogenised/American) Santa with the (Traditional/British) Father Christmas -- St Nicholas. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to One Person, One Vote (may not apply in certain states) ======================================== From lj2d30 at gateway.net Thu Jan 4 00:43:00 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:43:00 -0000 Subject: Shipper Debates & all other On-Topic Discussions In-Reply-To: <000c01c0754e$263859e0$733770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <930guk+f8dq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8458 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > It's only lately that the Montagues and Capulets have begun squaring up to each other. > > Neil "It's Capulets like you that cause blood in the marketplace! Ye gods!" Zunita Shinn, "The Music Man" (Sorry, involuntary quote. Couldn't help myself) I'm really a no-shipper, really, but if the trio *had* to split into a couple with a 3rd wheel, I'd prefer the Ron/Hermione pairing. Ideally, I'd like all three of them to find other mates and still be able to remain the Trio that we know and love. On the very Harry Christmas topic, I received a big zip of Hp stuff, although I did give the HP Wizard's Journal to a 10 yo who loved it. I did, too and may find myself getting one for myself! Trina From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Wed Jan 3 22:43:25 2001 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 22:43:25 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] the H/H kiss and HP entering the English language. References: <92ob51+vdjh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000201c075e9$7c097c00$4113893e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 8459 My first post of 2001, Happy New Year everyone. Its great to be back after my long absence. I asked my 14 year old sister (who is UK based and attends a mixed comprehensive school for all those who are debating whether attitudes to the kiss are partially based on culture and or home country) whether that kiss meant anything and she said and I quote "Of course it does. You don't just kiss any old boy, people would think you were a slag or something. Hermione must really, really like Harry." I enquired further as to whether she meant in a friendly or romantic way and was informed in very sarcastic tones "I meant she fancies him. You don't kiss your friends except at New Year and even then you don't kiss the boys!" I incidentally am evidentally a slag in her view as I do kiss my friends male and female and I certainly kissed all my male friends at new year and a LIthuanian man I'd never met before, somewhat reluctantly but as he was friend of a friend and it seemed impolite and inappropriate to refuse. Finally Harry Potter seems to be entering the national ccnciousness, yesterday I visited my rheumatologist he told me that my injured shoulder required more time and patience to heal and when I expressed disgust at this verdict he commented "I'm afraid I'm not in the Harry Potter business. There are no magic wands in this branch of medicine." I bet Madam Pomfrey could heal severe whiplash in less than the six months he predicts. I could not decide whether to laugh or push him through his consulting room window. You will be pleased to hear I decided an assault charge would not look good on my CV so I laughed and asked him if he'd read the books. He said his grandson had forced him to listen to HP& PS on Radio 4 on Boxing Day and it wasn't half bad so he thought he might read them now. Heather From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 01:22:15 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 01:22:15 -0000 Subject: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) In-Reply-To: <92vrhs+pci4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <930j87+uu0d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8460 Neil:"In the magical world, I imagine being a squib is on a par with dyslexia or even blindness. That is, if we regard magical ability as being something pitched between a skill and a sense." Squibs might be compared to being tone-deaf or color-blind, or, as you said, plain blind. I would think magic is a talent that's turned into a skill by training. I mean, Wynton Marsalis, the jazz great, went to conservatory (Julliard, I think). He is enormously gifted as well. From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 4 01:29:26 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 19:29:26 -0600 Subject: New Co-Moderators Message-ID: <3A53D1F6.504B0159@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8461 Hi -- I'm happy to announce that our group now has 5 moderators, including me. Melanie Moore is also still technically a moderator, but none of us has heard from her in some time (so I'm assuming she is MIA). But, if she is out there, please let one of us know that you're okay & just busy leading your non-HP life. Okay -- new co-moderators -- you know & love them all I'm sure (alphabetical) -- Jim Flanagan -- He already does loads to maintain our Files section as I'm sure you all know. Jim is in North Carolina. John Walton -- attending university in St Andrews, Scotland (home in New York). Neil Ward -- perhaps better known as "Flying Ford Anglia" and resident in London Jeralyn (otherwise known as Voicelady) -- at home in The Big Apple My eternal thanks to all of them for volunteering to share moderator duties as this will give me a chance to step back some now & even more in mid-April when my baby arrives. You may expect to get occasional administrative or group announcements from any of them, and you can feel free to contact any of them with questions or problems. We are changing the group's Main Page to indicate that general questions be directed to me as list owner. But, that is more for the general public than for all of you old-time list members. In other words, feel free to bug any of them, particularly in April & May, okay? We also have a wide range of time zones represented by this moderator group, which may be convenient. Neil & John are in the UK, Jim & Voicelady are in the Eastern time zone, I'm in Central, and MIA Melanie is on the West coast. Penny From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 02:27:12 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 02:27:12 -0000 Subject: OT Arthurian legends.... In-Reply-To: <20010103191606.24443.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <930n20+pajj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8462 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Denise Roger wrote: > Check out the club at this link. You don't have to > join, but several of the members are very > knowledgeable, as are alot of the posts....... > > Hope this helps? > > ~Dee~ > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/camelot495admessageboard It helps immensely! Thanks a lot, Dee--great looking out! --Ebony From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 03:44:51 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 21:44:51 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT Arthurian legends....Ebony... References: <930n20+pajj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013401c07600$b409e9c0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8463 Looking out? Chuckles... Dear dear. I'm a club member! I play one of the characters (like you can't guess which one?) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Ebony To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 8:27 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT Arthurian legends.... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Denise Roger wrote: > Check out the club at this link. You don't have to > join, but several of the members are very > knowledgeable, as are alot of the posts....... > > Hope this helps? > > ~Dee~ > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/camelot495admessageboard It helps immensely! Thanks a lot, Dee--great looking out! --Ebony eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 02:58:55 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 02:58:55 -0000 Subject: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. In-Reply-To: <3A539B25.DB5DC802@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <930otf+64rt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8464 Heidi wrote: "A whole bunch of Slytherins stood up to (a) toast him at the farewell dinner in Book 4, and (b) toasted cedric. Are we ever going to meet any of those "not necessarily evil" slytherins?" It seems to me that ALL Slytherins can't be bad. JKR has continually reinforced this biased picture but it doesn't hold with the rest of the world she's created. Maybe she's only setting us up for a big suprise. Perhaps pulling a Mad Eye Moody on us (meaning that won't see it coming). I also don't think that Draco is all bad. I'm not saying that he'll turn out either way though. (I don't know at this point!) The truth is that I don't think ANYONE is all evil (or good for that matter- harkening back to Neil's Dumbledore thread), but opinon is about real life. In JKR's universe Voldemort at least may be all bad, even though he has only become that way over time. Scott From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 4 03:14:28 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:14:28 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Hogmanay ..... Word of the Day] Message-ID: <3A53EA94.8EB372B1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8465 I just got this from a friend, with no HP connection whatsoever, and since it had to do with Scotland and started with "Hog" I thought I'd pass it on for miscellaneous and limited interest... --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Hogmanay ..... Word of the Day Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 10:31:05 -0500 For use in the SCA, to impress people... ---------------------- Forwarded by Greg B. Jones/USA/BAC on 01/02/2001 10:25 AM --------------------------- BETH L. DAVIS 01/02/2001 09:29 AM To: Greg B. Jones/USA/BAC at BankofAmerica cc: Subject: Hogmanay ..... Word of the Day another piece of useless info for you to file away - like "calving"... ---------------------- Forwarded by BETH L. DAVIS/USA/BAC on 01/02/2001 09:27 AM --------------------------- George Dowling on 01/02/2001 09:25:19 AM To: cc: (bcc: BETH L. DAVIS/USA/BAC) Subject: Hogmanay ..... Word of the Day Interesting word.... Hogmanay \hog-muh-NAY; HOG-muh-nay\, noun: The name, in Scotland, for New Year's Eve, on which children go about singing and asking for gifts; also, a gift, cake, or treat given on New Year's Eve. This is Hogmanay, the gifting of another year, the coming of midnight, the darkest hour, before the turn towards dawn. --John F. Deane, "The music of what happens," [1]Irish Times, December 28, 2000 The biggest celebration in Britain was in Edinburgh, where Hogmanay drew about 200,000 people to a free street party in the city centre. --"Archbishop of Canterbury calls for greater generosity," [2]Irish Times, Saturday, January 2, 1999 _________________________________________________________ The origin of the word Hogmanay is unknown. References 1. http://www.ireland.com/ 2. http://www.ireland.com/ _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ To subscribe to the list by email, send a blank message to WordoftheDay-on at lists.lexico.com To unsubscribe via email, send a blank message to WordoftheDay-off at lists.lexico.com Subscriptions can be turned on and off from the Web at http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/list/ Dictionary.com Word of the Day http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/ (C) 2000, Lexico LLC. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Jan 4 03:18:38 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:18:38 -0500 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Ch 24 - Rita Skeeter's Scoop Message-ID: <3A53EB8E.58878953@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8466 It's only appropriate that I'm summarizing this chapter & doing this Character Sketch for 2 reasons: (a) I've spent part of today writing a Rita Skeeter scene for the fanfic I'm doing (where the Malfoys actually own the daily prophet...), and (b) I spent yesterday in LA, having lunch with Cassandra Claire and talking, as we are wont to do, about Draco Malfoy. So I've got newspapers and sarcasticly nasty blond wizard-teens on the brain anyway... This chapter is seasonally appropriate - the chapter begins on Boxing Day which was a week ago, and covers the aftermath of the Yule Ball and the start of the Winter Term. Term begins with Care of Magical Creatures, but with a substitute, Professor Grubbly-Plank, filling in for the surprisingly absent Hagrid (well, surprising for the Gryffs, the Slyths seemed to expect that he wouldn't show...) with the help of a lovely white unicorn, who impresses the girls a lot, and gives Harry a chance to read the article that Draco gave him from the Prophet. The article is about Hagrid, and casts every thing about him in a negative light, from his giant parentage to the Hippogriff incident of the year before, and makes him hide in his cabin until simultaneous visits from Harry&Ron&Hermione and Dumbledore convince him that universal popularity is not a reasonable expectation for anyone, and a lot of the parents who remember him well want him teaching thier children. The rest of the chapter is peppered with small details, many of which will be important later in the book (and possibly in later books) We learn about Aberforth Dumbledore and The Goat Which Was Inapropriately Charmed. And we see Viktor Krum swimming, which we later realize is his practice for the Second Task And Ludo Bagman, who bumps into Harry&Ron&Hermione in Hogsmeade, offers to "help" harry with the second task - and leaves his conversation with the goblins to make the offer. This becomes important later on. And Rita threatens Hermione. The chapter ends with Harry resolving to work on the Egg Clue... QUESTIONS: 1. Is JKR, by making Hagrid blameless for whatever his mother, the Giantess, may have done, and very different from what witches & wizards believe about giants, setting up a parallel where the children of the death eaters cannot be blamed for their parents' actions and act very differently than their parents do/did? 2. Would you rather take a class from Hagrid or Professor Grubbly-Plank? Discuss. 3. Why doesn't Harry pull out the Marauder's Map to see if Rita is on Hogwarts grounds & then track her down in her bug form well before the end of the book? 4. Did anyone realize that the trip to Hogsmeade in this book is the first time Harry&Ron&Hermione all leave Hogwarts together to go into town? Every previous time, one of them is left behind when they leave the castle. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Jan 4 03:32:11 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:32:11 -0500 Subject: ignore what I just sent References: <3A53EB8E.58878953@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A53EEBB.3E4A2208@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8468 I had just started typing when I hit somethingwrong & it sent. Please delete it NOW! From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 4 03:48:52 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 21:48:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates References: <92vpi6+psec@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A53F2A3.37C66242@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8469 Ebony wrote: > You know, at the church I currently attend, the reading of *most* > fantasy literature is very seriously frowned upon. So is teaching > children to believe in Santa Claus. Just to point out that for Catholics, Santa Claus is not a fictional character. His portrayal as a jolly man who brings gifts can still be traced to the works of Bishop Nicholas of Myra (I think he was a bishop), who has been canonized. My 5-year-old already knows Saint Nicholas and Santa Claus are the same person, and that saints can look different when they need to (just as Father Christmas looks different; she's seen him, too). When she's old enough, I can explain that the whole bringing gifts thing is a concrete example of the spirit of giving, etc., but I never have to tell her that Santa does not exist. I guess it's the "jolly old elf" aspect that some churches object to; I always sort of lumped them with the ones who don't celebrate Christmas or Easter because of the pagan origins of some of the trappings. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 04:19:28 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:19:28 EST Subject: HP in Vietnam Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8470 http://www.cnn.com/2000/books/news/12/15/vietnam.harrypotter.ap/ 'Harry Potter' fever sweeps through Vietnam HANOI, Vietnam (AP) -- Vietnam joined the world in falling under Harry Potter's spell as a local publishing house rolled out the first full-length version of "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone" this week to rave reviews. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Jan 4 04:24:00 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 23:24:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - Malfoy & His Goons, Part 1 References: <3A53EB8E.58878953@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A53FAE0.22438CCD@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8471 I'm borrowing John Walton's Description Outline for each character - it's a *great* framework! ======================================== Character Summary: Draco Malfoy aka "TooSexyToDieGuy" ======================================== Name: Draco Malfoy Age: We don't know if he's older or younger than Harry, but as they are the same year, he was born in either 1979 or 1980, and is 10 or 11 when he first appears, in Madame Malkin's shop Description: Blond, light grey eyes, pointy features, sneers a lot, well dressed, or at least wealthily dressed. He has floppy hair on the Mystery at Hogwarts card, at least in silhouette. Believed by many fanfiction writers, teenage witches and grown women to look good in leather. Job: Student, Slytherin House Slytherin Seeker, 2nd year forward Personality: Very sarcastic, witty (yes, it's canon - his comment about the blast ended skrewts is, at least), pretty good mimic (immitates Colin in CoA), bigot (CoA. The whole book.), most likely at least semi-smart (In the KNockturn Alley scene in CoA, lucius implies that he expected Draco to be top of the class but he was trumped by Hermione), sucks up to Snape (CoA, while Dumbledore is suspended), violent streak (although there is some argument that when he "tried" to curse Harry in GoF, he was just trying to get his attention & missed on purpose), cowardly streak (ran from Voldemort in PS/SS) Special abilities: * Can be transformed into a ferret in a single bound * Pretty good in potions * Keeps up on the news of the outside world (he's always the one with newspapers & magazines in his hands) * Good seeker. 3rd year, he has a 3-1 record, and likely only lost to Harry because Harry had a faster broom. Obsessions: Harry Potter. The times we see Draco when he doesn't know Harry is there, namely the Slytherin Common Room scene of CoS, and in Knockturn Alley, he doesn't stop talking about Harry Good qualities: Just because we haven't seen them in the text doesn't mean they're not there. Or something like that. Relationships: Took Pansy Parkinson to the Yule Ball Son of Lucius & Narcissa Malfoy Fanfiction pairs him with Hermione and Pansy on a regular basis, one story paired him with Professor Sinistra, and slash stories pair him with Harry, Ron, occasionally Snape and once, for some reason, Neville Questions: 1. Is Draco sexy? 2. Is Draco redeemable? 3. Does he have any friends? I don't mean flunkies or minders, I mean someone who he can have a conversation with. If not, could he? ======================================== Character Summary: Vincent Crabbe aka "Thing One" ======================================== Name: Vincent Crabbe Age: We don't know if he's older or younger than Harry, but as they are the same year, he was born in either 1979 or 1980, and is 10 or 11 when he first appears, on the train to Hogwarts Description: Thickset, mean looking, thick necked, pudding bowl haircut, long gorilla arms and a flat nose Job: Draco's bodyguard Student, Slytherin House Personality: Thugish, appears to be stupid, but is likely slightly smarter than Goyle; Draco chooses him as his second for the "wizard's duel" in PS/SS Special abilities: * None disclosed to date RELATIONSHIPS: Son of Crabbe The Death Eater. No romantic relationships in the canon. Has been paired with Hermione and Goyle in fanfiction, and fanfic writers have portrayed him as having a crush on Draco Questions: 1. Is he that stupid or is it an act? 2. If he is that stupid, how did he get into Slytherin? What are his ambitions? Where is his cunning? ======================================== Character Summary: Gregory Goyle aka "Thing Two" ======================================== Name: Gregory Goyle Age: We don't know if he's older or younger than Harry, but as they are the same year, he was born in either 1979 or 1980, and is 10 or 11 when he first appears, on the train to Hogwarts Description: Thickset, mean looking, short, bristly hair, dull, deepset eyes, looks bewildered Job: Draco's bodyguard Student, Slytherin House Personality: Thugish, appears to be stupid Special abilities: * None disclosed to date RELATIONSHIPS: Son of Goyle The Death Eater. No romantic relationships in the canon. Has been paired with Hermione and Crabbe in fanfiction, and fanfic writers have portrayed him as having a crush on Draco Questions: 1. Is he that stupid or is it an act? 2. If he is that stupid, how did he get into Slytherin? What are his ambitions? Where is his cunning? From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Jan 4 04:32:16 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 04:32:16 -0000 Subject: Are all Slytherins rotten to the bone? e tc. In-Reply-To: <3A539B25.DB5DC802@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <930ucg+tc26@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8472 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > Kelley wrote: > > >. Plus, this could be the set-up for the redemption of the Dursleys... > > Great title for Book 7: Harry Potter and the Redemption of the > Dursleys! > > Amy Ha! Well, I'd certainly be pleased to contribute that... Heidi wrote: > By book 4, sure, but that's after 3 years of history between them - in book 1,> the worst thing Draco does is inform on them when they actually are breaking a> bunch of school rules (although after that there's a little Making Fun Of Harry> by Slytherins but given that noone in Gryffendor is speaking to him either, I> can't see how that's such a *bad* thing.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Yeah, but the tattling comes after the first part, though. He's the little dipwad that challenged Harry to the 'fake' duel, so he'd be out of bed, and breaking rules in the first place--he set him up. Draco came off as a jerk right from the start to me. The first time Harry meets him at Madame Malkin's, he's making smug comments about being in Slyth, playing Quid, getting his dad to buy him a broom (he actually says 'bully my father into buying me a broom'--doesn't it seem ludicrous to imagine Draco 'bullying' Luicus into anything?); rude, condescending remarks about Hagrid, muggle-borns, and half- bloods. I do like Draco as a character, esp. in fics, but in canon he's quite a little turkey-weiner, IMO. That ~was~ all in SS/PS wasn't it? I haven't cracked the books in a while, guess I better get after it... > A whole bunch of Slytherins stood up to (a) toast him at the farewell dinner in> Book 4, and (b) toasted cedric. Are we ever going to meet any of those "not> necessarily evil" slytherins? I'd love to meet these Slyths, too. It doesn't seem too likely that we'll get to meet any more of the kids in any house in too much detail, though. JKR has a lot of story to pack into the next three books, and I would guess if a character isn't going to be intrinsic to the story in some way, she probably won't bother. I was hoping that she would continue her trend of making each book longer than the one before, too bad she isn't. She could change her mind, since she's only been writing OoP for a short while, now; guess there is a little hope... Kelley Kelley From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 04:34:47 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 04:34:47 -0000 Subject: HP, Santa and FLOO!!!! In-Reply-To: <55.f4f6040.2783f6d4@aol.com> Message-ID: <930uh7+lc90@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8473 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, managirl19 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 02-Jan-01 9:50:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, > sara.ludwig at t... writes: > > > I don't think that would fit the series, but just my opinion. > > catrina > > ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- > > Fr?n: Dave Hardenbrook > > Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 01:26 > > ?mne: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates & Santa > > > > > > At 03:38 PM 1/2/01 -0800, voicelady at m... wrote: > > >I bet Harry believes in Santa (just to keep this on-topic.) > > > > Do you think Santa will show up later in the series? (He's appeared > > in Oz and Narnia, why not Hogwarts?) :) > > > > > > > > -- Dave > > > > Wait a minute: Why not? After all, isn't Santa supposed to come down a > fireplace in all 'muggle ' tales? Maybe J.K. Rowling could twist it so that > Santa used the Floo network, but my, wouldn't all the parents have trouble > explaining THAT to their children. In see all the opportunity, but I doubt > she will. It'd be nice though. > > Mana I suggest that Father Christmas (do prefer that to S.C.) DOES use the floo network in the HP universe -- and only visits Witch/Wizard households...we haven't heard about it yet because HP has only been at Hogwarts during Christmas where Albus Dumbledore plays the role of F.C, and ensures that all are happy From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 05:34:26 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:34:26 -0600 Subject: Heidi, References: <3A53EB8E.58878953@alumni.upenn.edu> <3A53EE88.9037435F@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <007301c07610$02e525a0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8474 Which stamp is a picture of you? (Chuckles.....and looks to the Al Gore button in the drawer beside her..) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 04:40:31 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 04:40:31 -0000 Subject: comments on various threads... In-Reply-To: <92ukei+t99j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <930urv+2dtb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8475 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > Hello all-- > > * Susan, your little boy is absolutely adorable; Harry Powder--I love > it! > Aw shucks, thanks! I wondered whether anyone had looked at the file! An adoption journal is eliciting kids reviews of favorite books and I submitted Jesse's. "I yike Harry Powder" (translation: I like Harry Powder) Also: "It's an owl! A white owl! Harry Powder has white owl!" (We have a snowy white owl puppet) From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 04:42:16 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 04:42:16 -0000 Subject: wool socks?OT In-Reply-To: <20010103182224.14801.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <930uv8+2doe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8476 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Denise Roger wrote: > I love the idea, but what do you do for those of us > who, unfortuneately, are quite allergic to wool? :( > > Wears cotton. Sighs. And argoyle just look so nice. > > > > > > > > --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > > That's a very cute idea - but since it was at least > > 35 deg C here and at 8pm is > > still 28 deg c, I think I'm opting out. > > > > storm > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at a...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:53 PM > > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Subject: [HPforGrownups] wool socks?OT > > > > We have an avalanche of snow here in Michigan.. > > why don't we set up a tree whereby we each > > send one pair of wool socks to someone else? > > > > Hey, no problem..people in warm climates and people who are allergic to wool get cotton socks with the sorting hat embroidered on them... From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 4 04:38:27 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 23:38:27 -0500 Subject: Just a small announcement Message-ID: <200101040445.f044jbC28432@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8477 Okay, I am actually a little nervous about telling you all this, but I have recently made my first foray into the world of writing fanfic. After the recent discussion (brought up by me, I guess you can see why I was interested now)about "missing scenes" fics, I decided to put my money where my mouth was and write my version of what was going on offstage during GoF (from Hermione's POV and R/H, of course). So, if anyone wants to read it, go here: www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory-authorProfile&userid=17561 (My pen name is Elanor Gamgee--20 points and a smiley face to anyone who knows where that came from!) Kathy P.S. Sorry if this is off-topic but I wanted to share since this group kind of inspired me to write this series! (And by the way, the only reason it makes me nervous is that I know there are so many good writers on here!) eeek...scurrying away now... From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 04:47:15 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 04:47:15 -0000 Subject: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) AND later in life In-Reply-To: <930j87+uu0d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <930v8j+6kun@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8478 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > Neil:"In the magical world, I imagine being a squib is on a par with > dyslexia or even blindness. That is, if we regard magical ability as > being something pitched between a skill and a sense." > > Squibs might be compared to being tone-deaf or color-blind, or, as you > said, plain blind. I would think magic is a talent that's turned into > a skill by training. I mean, Wynton Marsalis, the jazz great, went to > conservatory (Julliard, I think). He is enormously gifted as well. Hmmmm......isn't Mad Eye Moody a person with a disability? He has a wooden leg and no eye? Some people with disabilities are born with them and some acquire disabilities in later life.... Later in life: I'm pleased to hear that people find magical abilities later in life. I love my "Muggles for Harry Potter" poster, but really don't think that I'm a Muggle. SO...everyone on this list will acquire their magical abilities BEFORE the next book.... Oh, goodness, I can think of SEVERAL people who would look good with a pig's tail! Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 04:57:55 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 04:57:55 -0000 Subject: GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010101210350.00df8100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <930vsj+josl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8479 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 10:02 PM 1/1/01 -0500, Amy Z wrote: > >Come on, > >is EVERYONE at Hogwarts hetero? How 'bout that hunk Bill--what ear does he > >wear his earring in? > > Oh, don't spoil it for us Bill/Fleur shippers! :) > Oh, goodness, here we have an issue of great social import, and you're worried about the Bill/Fleur shippers! I despair of people's dedication to some social justice some days. (just kidding!) Just make Bill bisexual. He has a great fling with Fleur..she is after all part Veela and therefore spelled to attract...good example of how Fleur desires Bill..BUT... then Bill really wants to have most of his sex and his life with another guy...he really is the perfect gay male in the books... otherwise, don't you think he'd have a girlfriend already? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 05:01:23 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 05:01:23 -0000 Subject: Ships and new Questions In-Reply-To: <005701c074ab$75b68760$7ead003e@default> Message-ID: <931033+eq2u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8480 I would like to know how they all manage to do their > Christmas shopping in Hogsmeasde without the other two noticing. I would > like to know how they mnaged to buy things before they were alowed to go to > (or even knew of) Hogsmeade. I suggest that that's easy. Fred, Gorge, or Percy helped them out From alina at dial7.com Thu Jan 4 05:06:30 2001 From: alina at dial7.com (Alina) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 00:06:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a small announcement References: <200101040445.f044jbC28432@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A5404D6.A9C392F2@dial7.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8481 That's WONDERFUL! I had fun reading it! Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Okay, I am actually a little nervous about telling you all this, but I > have > recently made my first foray into the world of writing fanfic. After > the > recent discussion (brought up by me, I guess you can see why I was > interested > now)about "missing scenes" fics, I decided to put my money where my > mouth was > and write my version of what was going on offstage during GoF (from > Hermione's > POV and R/H, of course). So, if anyone wants to read it, go here: > > > ww.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory-authorProfile&userid=17561 > > (My pen name is Elanor Gamgee--20 points and a smiley face to anyone > who knows > where that came from!) > > Kathy > > P.S. Sorry if this is off-topic but I wanted to share since this > group kind > of inspired me to write this series! (And by the way, the only reason > it > makes me nervous is that I know there are so many good writers on > here!) > > eeek...scurrying away now... > > > eGroups Sponsor [Wireless web technology from Motorola] > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 05:10:07 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 05:10:07 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <92tg70+j4ba@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9310jg+qjkv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8482 > > Since the alleged censoriousness of evangelicals is taken as a given > by many on this group ? i.e.,. one anti-HP site was described as > giving "the" evangelical position on HP, presumably assuming > that all > evangelicals are one unamimous, harmonious anthill on this matter > (it's bigtime stereotyping, but hey, who doesn't? - to paraphrase > Pascal, people so naturally stereotype that not to stereotype would > merely amount to another form of stereotypy). I would like to see > some hard actual real data here ? what percentage of people in > this > country actually want to ban/restrict HP? What percentage of > evangelicals? My guess is that even with the latter group, the > number would fall well below 50%. I doubt any polling organization > has explored this issue, so if anyone out there has friends at Gallup > or Roper, now's your chance to put a bee in their bonnet. > Oh come now. The only people who have tried to ban HP from the bookshelves are those who state that magic is against God and HP is a magician/wizard. These people describe themselves as Christians. Some of them describe themselves as Evangelical Christians. It is therefore reasonable to suggest that there is a group of Evangelical Christians and/or right wing fundamentalist Christians who use their religion as justification to ban HP. I haven't heard ANYone suggest that all Christians are bad or even that all Evangelical Christians are bad, or that all Christians ro even all Evangelical Christians want to ban HP. However, it is an ideology embraced by some Christians and ECs that they want to ban HP as a spawn of Satan, a magician, etc. I doubt that ANYone one this list would disagree with the statement that the HP books embrace morality and good. The HP books are about good and evil and HP is good and on the side of good. Those who condemn HP as part of their religion (AND there are no non- religious groups that want to condemn HP and take him off the shelf) are doing so from a Christian and Evangelical or right wing fundamentalist Christian standpoint. So, I think it is on topic and legitimate to express disagreement with this ideology and with those Christians whose religious beliefs fuel the anti-HP movement. Kind of like the witch burnings and the Inquistion. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 05:22:43 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 05:22:43 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <3A53F2A3.37C66242@texas.net> Message-ID: <9311b3+v6d7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8483 I always sort of lumped them with the ones who don't > celebrate Christmas or Easter because of the pagan origins of some of the > trappings. > > --Amanda Of course, almost all of the "trappings" of Christmas and Easter are pagan. I love Lewis, Tolkein, and Rowlings, but I do not like Pullman at ALL...and I am not a Christian it's not about yes or no to organized religion...Lewis could be quite disdainful of the perfumed denizens of large churches..it's about being affirmational, inspirational, and loving.... Pullman's portrayals of tortured children are not my idea of fun..where does good triumph in his books (have I missed it?) susan (who confesses to liking moral clarity in her books) From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 4 05:27:39 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 05:27:39 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) In-Reply-To: <011001c074ea$551b5dc0$18c016c2@pnxpg> Message-ID: <9311kb+c910@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8484 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" wrote: > I think Sinistra must be female since Moody(the real) is too old fashioned in a way to dance about with another male IMO. > catrina Hmmmm..I respectfully disagree...I'm a radical feminist lesbian..and very old fashioned. Thank you notes are required. Children must address adults formally. And it's quite proper to dance with whomever of whatever gender as long as you converse civilly with your partner and do not engage in sexual contact on the dance floor. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 06:24:37 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 00:24:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: wool socks?OT References: <930uv8+2doe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011f01c07617$04c02300$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8485 Susan, As long as someone else is handling the sewing needle, I will say I would adore having a pair of those kind of socks! Wonder if you could do that--legally WB could have a cow. Cross-stitch/embroider socks....hmmm... Even further--do the guest bathroom towels, and have a total HP guest room, sheets, comforter, $1000 bed, and all! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan McGee To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: wool socks?OT --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Denise Roger wrote: > I love the idea, but what do you do for those of us > who, unfortuneately, are quite allergic to wool? :( > > Wears cotton. Sighs. And argoyle just look so nice. > > > > > > > > --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > > That's a very cute idea - but since it was at least > > 35 deg C here and at 8pm is > > still 28 deg c, I think I'm opting out. > > > > storm > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at a...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2001 3:53 PM > > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Subject: [HPforGrownups] wool socks?OT > > > > We have an avalanche of snow here in Michigan.. > > why don't we set up a tree whereby we each > > send one pair of wool socks to someone else? > > > > Hey, no problem..people in warm climates and people who are allergic to wool get cotton socks with the sorting hat embroidered on them... eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 4 05:41:58 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:41:58 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a small announcement References: <200101040445.f044jbC28432@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <004901c07611$0f0d37e0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8486 > (My pen name is Elanor Gamgee--20 points and a smiley face to anyone who knows > where that came from!) Sounds like something from LoTR. A Sam Gamgee, and the House of Elanor? Simon. From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 4 05:40:56 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 00:40:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a small announcement Message-ID: <200101040548.f045mIC06820@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8487 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >> (My pen name is Elanor Gamgee--20 points and a smiley face to anyone who >knows >> where that came from!) > >Sounds like something from LoTR. A Sam Gamgee, and the House of Elanor? > >Simon. Close...Elanor Gamgee was the name of Sam's first child (named after the flowers, I believe, from Lothlorien, but then I have been rereading HP too much lately to crack LOTR at all!) And now, just to save this from being totally OT...incidentally, I am working on convincing my husband that "Elanor" would be a good name for our first daughter, since I am having NO luck selling him on "Hermione"... Oh, and here's your smiley face, Simon: (: Kathy From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 4 06:15:06 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:15:06 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a small announcement References: <200101040548.f045mIC06820@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <005d01c07615$af2c7110$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8488 The name Elanor strikes a bell but from somewhere else. Was it Mrs Roosevelt's name? Thanks for the backwards smiley... at least it wasn't ): Simon. > >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== > >> (My pen name is Elanor Gamgee--20 points and a smiley face to anyone who > >knows > >> where that came from!) > > > >Sounds like something from LoTR. A Sam Gamgee, and the House of Elanor? > > > >Simon. > > > Close...Elanor Gamgee was the name of Sam's first child (named after the > flowers, I believe, from Lothlorien, but then I have been rereading HP too > much lately to crack LOTR at all!) > > And now, just to save this from being totally OT...incidentally, I am working > on convincing my husband that "Elanor" would be a good name for our first > daughter, since I am having NO luck selling him on "Hermione"... > > Oh, and here's your smiley face, Simon: (: > > Kathy > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Jan 4 06:26:32 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 17:26:32 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) Message-ID: <01C07673.877544E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8489 Ok, I work in a government service that take complaints about government provided/funded services. Our jurisdiction is child protection, substitute care and disability services. Most of the people I work with/for/on behalf of/whatever who have a disability are have limited verbal skills or are non-verbal, are mostly or completely physically dependant on others for their daily needs, have limited ability to legally consent etc .... So just *maybe* I'm taking this all too seriously ie I think you are both right Storm -----Original Message----- From: Flying Ford Anglia [SMTP:neilward at dircon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 4:38 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) Ebony said, re PWDs <<>> I agree with the last point in particular, since autistic children are often noted for being prodigious in a single area. In the magical world, I imagine being a squib is on a par with dyslexia or even blindness. That is, if we regard magical ability as being something pitched between a skill and a sense. Neil To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 2 15:00:21 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 10:00:21 -0500 Subject: Illustration pet peeve Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8490 Post-PS illustrations that show Harry with taped glasses irritate me. Mr. Weasley fixed Harry's glasses at the beginning of CoS (when H emerges from Knockturn Alley), and presumably he didn't just magic some new tape into place but actually FIXED them. I am assuming that they had broken along the existing break. There are other possibilities, I admit, but I've worn glasses for 24 years and when you drop already-broken glasses that's where they break 9 times out of 10. Okay, I realize this observation qualifies me as completely over the edge addicted. But as others have observed, who else can I say these things to?! When I was little I loved checking the illustrations to make sure the artist had paid as much attention to the details as I had, and I guess nothing has changed. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest, Amy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Jan 4 10:11:21 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:11:21 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's Message-ID: <01C07692.EB11F7E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8491 Catrina said: What page is this on, please. I could check if I knew, can't reread the whole book though. P16, chp 1 the riddle house (sorry) storm -----Original Message----- From: Sara Ludwig [SMTP:sara.ludwig at telia.com] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:41 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fran: Sheryll Townsend Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 15:06 Amne: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Pippin said: Some editions say "curse" rather than > "death" thus referring to > the real Mad Eye Moody. > > Yup, my version says 'curse'. ..But I wonder why > Voldemort is worried about > this? Is it a limited energy thing? I would not have > thought he had any > compunctions about killing/curing as many people as > possible? > > storm > I'm winging it here, as my copies of books are on loan to a friend (well, the Canadian English ones are, and I only have the first 3 in French). I seem to recall that my version said there was only one more *obstacle*, as opposed to *curse* or *death*. I thought the Canadian versions were the same as the UK, could someone check a UK version and let me know what it says? Thanks, Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Jan 4 11:35:04 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 11:35:04 -0000 Subject: The death before Harry's In-Reply-To: <01C07692.EB11F7E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <931n58+lspi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8492 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > P16, chp 1 the riddle house (sorry) > > storm >> Pippin said: Some editions say "curse" rather than "death" thus referring to the real Mad Eye Moody. > >> Yup, my version says 'curse'. ..But I wonder why Voldemort is worried about this? Is it a limited energy thing? I would not have thought he had any compunctions about killing/curing as many people as possible? >>----storm > >I seem to recall that my version said there was only one more >*obstacle*, as opposed to *curse* or *death*. I thought the Canadian versions were the same as the UK, could someone check a UK version and let me know what it says? > > Thanks, > Sheryll Interesting. My American version (p.12, btw) says "One more ~murder~...my faithful servant at Hogwarts..." etc. Kelley From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 12:39:47 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:39:47 -0000 Subject: Hurrah! (Shameless Plug) Message-ID: <931quj+r9mr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8493 Hi, everyone! I just thought that I would tell you guys that chapter one of my new Fanfic- A Harry Story is up on Fanfic.net. I had loads of trouble but at least it finally worked... http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=163319 Anyway I had some good imput from my Beta readers and I want to know what everyone else thinks. Scott From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 00:47:59 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 01:47:59 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New Co-Moderators References: <3A53D1F6.504B0159@swbell.net> Message-ID: <001b01c076b1$32cc1b60$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8494 > Jim Flanagan -- He already does loads to maintain our Files section as > I'm sure you all know. Jim is in North Carolina. > > John Walton -- attending university in St Andrews, Scotland (home in New > York). > > Neil Ward -- perhaps better known as "Flying Ford Anglia" and resident > in London > > Jeralyn (otherwise known as Voicelady) -- at home in The Big Apple Wow! All hail the new (and old) moderators, and a big & heartfelt TIA! How about an induction ceremony at the next chat? BTW, Back when I set out to find a good HP list, I visited quite a few places, newsgroups included . Good groups have good moderators, which puts this group in league of its own. But WAIT A SECOND--just what stance do the new justices take on Wand Order, Romantic Pairings, and Hogwarts Demographics?? Suppose it should come down to an election count dispute!--suppose the court's packed with a bunch of those ... ... oh never mind ... Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 4 14:08:38 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 14:08:38 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - Malfoy & His Goons, Part 1 In-Reply-To: <3A53FAE0.22438CCD@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <932056+3kvb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8495 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > lost to Harry because Harry had a faster broom. > > > Good qualities: > > Just because we haven't seen them in the text doesn't mean they're not > there. Or something like that. > > > Questions: > 1. Is Draco sexy? No > 2. Is Draco redeemable? No - CMC From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Thu Jan 4 14:14:11 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 09:14:11 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] meeting characters in real life Message-ID: <35.eecde20.2785df33@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8496 In a message dated 1/3/01 9:09:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, ABoyko at starchoice.com writes: << By the way, I meant to post this a few days ago and I forgot. In church > the > other day, I was sitting right behind GINNY WEASLEY. I swear, this girl > looked EXACTLY like I picture Ginny. When she turned around for the sign > of > peace, I felt like I was shaking hands with a celebrity. (I think she > heard > me telling my dad who she looked like though, cause she kept giving me > weird > looks.) > >> ~~~~~~~~ What's scary is I'm a Postal Worker and there is a guy at work that is exactly what I picture Wormtail to look and sound like...... I hope he doesn't go postal.... *running to find a place to hide* Tessie From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 4 14:33:57 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 08:33:57 -0600 Subject: HP religion debates References: <9310jg+qjkv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5489D5.5D95946B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8497 Hi -- Susan McGee wrote: > Oh come now. The only people who have tried to ban HP from the > bookshelves are those who state that magic is against God and HP is a > magician/wizard. These people describe themselves as Christians. Some > of them describe themselves as Evangelical Christians. I agree with Caius that it's wrong to stereotype *all* evangelical Christians as censorious & bigoted, but I agree with Susan's point that it is very likely (IMO) that no other group has advocated banning HP. Some of the people who want to ban HP might not describe themselves as "evangelicals," but I think it's probably likely that noone has suggested banning the HP books on any grounds *other than* religion. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 4 14:45:29 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 08:45:29 -0600 Subject: the H/H kiss and HP entering the English language. References: <92ob51+vdjh@eGroups.com> <000201c075e9$7c097c00$4113893e@co.uk> Message-ID: <3A548C89.941C4DD0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8498 Hi -- Heather Edmonds wrote: > I asked my 14 year old sister (who is UK based and attends a mixed > comprehensive school for all those who are debating whether attitudes > to the kiss are partially based on culture and or home country) > whether that kiss meant anything and she said and I quote "Of course > it does. You don't just kiss any old boy, people would think you were > a slag or something. Hermione must really, really like Harry." I > enquired further as to whether she meant in a friendly or romantic way > and was informed in very sarcastic tones "I meant she fancies him. You > don't kiss your friends except at New Year and even then you don't > kiss the boys!" Ah, dare I tread here again so soon? ..... Yes. All I want to say is that it's interesting that we've now got conflicting teenage viewpoints from both sides of the pond. So, perhaps it's just a personal opinion/perspective issue, more than a cultural issue. That is, Heather's sister's view squares with those of Ebony's Detroit students & Cassie's California (?) cousins. But, this view isn't necessarily shared by other US & UK teenagers who've spoken up (like Scott & someone from the UK). > I incidentally am evidentally a slag in her view as I do kiss my > friends > male and female and I certainly kissed all my male friends at new year Well, you're older Heather -- I kissed male friends freely by the time I was in college. But not at 14. > Finally Harry Potter seems to be entering the national ccnciousness, It's very much in the US consciousness. There was a Wall Street Jrnl article a couple of months ago about the number of instances where HP terms are entering the business/corporate language. I told my husband he should be grateful that he's HP-literate, for his career of course. He just smiled & rolled his eyes. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Thu Jan 4 15:42:32 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 15:42:32 -0000 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] GLBT wizards (was PWD wizards) In-Reply-To: <9311kb+c910@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9325l8+hl5o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8499 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sara Ludwig" > wrote: > > I think Sinistra must be female since Moody(the real) is too old > fashioned in a way to dance about with another male IMO. > > catrina > > > Hmmmm..I respectfully disagree...I'm a radical feminist lesbian..and > very old fashioned. Thank you notes are required. Children must > address adults formally. And it's quite proper to dance with whomever > of whatever gender as long as you converse civilly with your partner > and do not engage in sexual contact on the dance floor. Well... you're old fashioned in some ways. Other people are old fashioned in other. You would agree that twenty years ago the words homosexual/lesbian would not be considered appropriate for polite conversation by most middle class Americans? I would say that a very radical change in general attitude to homosexuality has occured in the last decade or two. Don't you think that many people in their 50-60s would not feel comfortable dancing cheek to cheek with a person of their own gender? Naama From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Jan 4 15:56:49 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 07:56:49 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Illustration pet peeve Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8500 Amy, This has been one of my biggest pet-peeves all along. I'm glad you agree! I was thinking really, why didn't someone fix the poor boy's glasses when he got to school originally? I mean he did defeat the Dark Lord, the least all those powerful witches and wizards could do for him is fix his glasses. I 'm happy to believe that when Mr. Weasley fixes the glasses in CoS he could have re-broken them in traveling. I don't know, it just seems silly. I guess it falls along the lines of not giving him special treatment and always sending him back to an abusive home. *shrugs* Meredith ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Amy Z [mailto:aiz24 at hotmail.com] ** Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2001 7:00 AM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: [HPforGrownups] Illustration pet peeve ** ** ** ** Post-PS illustrations that show Harry with taped glasses ** irritate me. Mr. ** Weasley fixed Harry's glasses at the beginning of CoS (when ** H emerges from ** Knockturn Alley), and presumably he didn't just magic some ** new tape into ** place but actually FIXED them. I am assuming that they had ** broken along the ** existing break. There are other possibilities, I admit, but ** I've worn ** glasses for 24 years and when you drop already-broken ** glasses that's where ** they break 9 times out of 10. ** ** Okay, I realize this observation qualifies me as completely ** over the edge ** addicted. But as others have observed, who else can I say ** these things to?! ** ** When I was little I loved checking the illustrations to make ** sure the artist ** had paid as much attention to the details as I had, and I ** guess nothing has ** changed. ** ** Thanks for letting me get that off my chest, ** Amy ** _________________________________________________________________ ** Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ** ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Jan 4 16:50:31 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 16:50:31 -0000 Subject: Illustration pet peeve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9329kn+dng6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8501 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Meredith Wilson < aviationoutreachcoord at m...> wrote: > Amy, > > This has been one of my biggest pet-peeves all along. I'm glad you agree! > I was thinking really, why didn't someone fix the poor boy's glasses when he > got to school originally? I'm beginning to wonder if some characteristics/defects aren't magically 'linked'. Could Harry's glasses revert to their broken state in the same way and for the same reason that his hair always becomes untidy despite Petunia's never ending efforts to tame it? This could explain a lot of things, like Hagrid's equally untameable mop, the reason Animagi who wear glasses have glasses shaped markings when transformed, Snape's perpetually greasy hair, and Mad Eye Moody's scars. Just wondering... Pippin From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 4 17:40:04 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:40:04 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hurrah! (Shameless Plug) References: <931quj+r9mr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011e01c07675$5f9008a0$612b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8502 Congrats!!! You know, the start of your story always makes me think of "Englishman in New York" by Sting. Can't wait to read more! Dinah From john at walton.to Thu Jan 4 18:15:52 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 18:15:52 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: wool socks?OT In-Reply-To: <011f01c07617$04c02300$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8503 Denise Rohleder wrote: > Susan, > As long as someone else is handling the sewing needle, I will say I would > adore having a pair of those kind of socks! > > > Wonder if you could do that--legally WB could have a cow. > Cross-stitch/embroider socks....hmmm... > > Even further--do the guest bathroom towels, and have a total HP guest room, > sheets, comforter, $1000 bed, and all! Hmm... ::John looks at a sewing needle, wonders what the heck it is:: Can you do that with iron-on transfers? ::hopes that the iron still works, 'cos he's not used it in aaaaages:: --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Don't Blame Me - I voted for Gore...I think ======================================== From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 4 18:26:37 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:26:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New Co-Moderators References: <3A53D1F6.504B0159@swbell.net> <001b01c076b1$32cc1b60$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A54C05D.78DD639A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8504 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > But WAIT A SECOND--just what stance do the new justices take on Wand Order, > Romantic Pairings, and Hogwarts Demographics?? > Suppose it should come down to an election count dispute!--suppose the > court's packed with a bunch of those ... remember which side he was on last> ... oh never mind ... Oh, do hush up and finish eating your socks. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 4 18:29:08 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:29:08 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP religion debates References: <9311b3+v6d7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A54C0F4.4430936@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8505 Susan McGee wrote: > I always sort of lumped them with the ones who don't > > celebrate Christmas or Easter because of the pagan origins of some > of the trappings. > > > > --Amanda > > Of course, almost all of the "trappings" of Christmas and Easter are > pagan. My point exactly. They decide to ignore the gift, because they don't like the paper it's wrapped in. I have a lot more empathy for those who have problems with message, than those who have problems with presentation. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 4 18:40:10 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:40:10 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Just a small announcement References: <200101040445.f044jbC28432@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A54C38A.46735BA5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8506 Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > (My pen name is Elanor Gamgee--20 points and a smiley face to anyone who knows > where that came from!) Lord of the Rings, Sam & Rose Gamgee's first child. They wanted a flower name, and I think Frodo suggested Elanor, which was the name of the little white flowers of Lorien. Elanor was the first, also, of the large crop of blondish children in the Shire that year, wasn't she? --Amanda, clearly needs a life From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 4 18:41:02 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:41:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) AND later in life References: <930v8j+6kun@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A54C3BD.4BAB4ABC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8507 Susan McGee wrote: > I'm pleased to hear that people find magical abilities later in life. > I love my "Muggles for Harry Potter" poster, but really don't think > that I'm a Muggle. SO...everyone on this list will acquire their > magical abilities BEFORE the next book.... > Oh, goodness, I can think of SEVERAL people who would look good with > a pig's tail! You leave me out of this. --Amanda From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 4 18:45:41 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 18:45:41 -0000 Subject: HP religion debates In-Reply-To: <3A5489D5.5D95946B@swbell.net> Message-ID: <932gcl+80fl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8508 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > I agree with Caius that it's wrong to stereotype *all* evangelical > Christians as censorious & bigoted, but I agree with Susan's point that > it is very likely (IMO) that no other group has advocated banning HP. > Some of the people who want to ban HP might not describe themselves as > "evangelicals," but I think it's probably likely that noone has > suggested banning the HP books on any grounds *other than* religion. > Still, in the absence of hard numeric data, it's the difference between saying that most criminals are men (which is true) and that most men are criminals (not quite as true). We have nothing except anecdotal evidence to support the alleged widespread evangelical opposition to HP. A small but well-organized and highly vocal minority will always command disproportionate attention. And there are some individuals who affiliate themselves another popular contemporary movement who seem less than enthused about HP - and yes, the article linked here does not use the word "ban" or "censor." (I'm also not saying that the majority of adherents to this movement share this opinion of HP, either) http://www.advancingwomen.com/womsoc/review_potter.html - CMC From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Jan 4 19:09:58 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:09:58 -0000 Subject: GLBT wizards/Sinistra's name Message-ID: <932hq6+kpv0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8509 Naama said: <> Well not if they were both gay . I don't think Susan was suggesting that two elderly heterosexual men would be likely to do a `Fred and Ginger' on the dancefloor, but I'm sure she will clarify Also, on a technicality, Moody wasn't himself at the Yule Ball - he was the considerably younger Barty Crouch Jnr in the guise of someone older. However, I'm inclined to think that Sinistra is female. BTW, did Moody dance cheek to cheek with Sinistra? I must have missed that bit. **** Is there any significance in Professor Sinistra's name? Most of the characters in JKR's world have extremely apposite names, so why should Professor S be any different? Dictionary moment: -SINISTRA is Italian for "left". -SINISTRAL' means "of or inclined to the left" - There is a term in chemistry ? SINISTRATION ? which, I think, has something to do with the chirality (left or right forms) of molecules, i.e. mirror images, but otherwise the same structure (any organic chemists in the house?). SINISTER, of course, has a range of dark meanings, from "evil" through "highly unfavourable" to "ominous". SINISTER also means "left" in heraldic terms, as our resident experts will no doubt be able to confirm and BEND SINISTER, apart from being a great record by The Fall, apparently is the heraldic indication of bastardy. So, what does this tell us about Professor Sinistra?:- A ? probably an Italian communist; B ? possibly having the left leg shorter than the right; C ? maybe an identical twin; D ? almost certainly evil; E ? arguably a bastard. Neil From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 4 19:36:23 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:36:23 -0000 Subject: Religion stuff (mainly OT), Draco, Ouroboros Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8510 Keith wrote: "In Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy (which I'm currently reading the third book of, The Amber Spyglass, the first two being Northern Lights and The Subtle Knife), no less weighty a subject is tackled than a war against GOD (the Authority), who seems to be being set up as a lying villain. Now, I have no problem with this idea, not being very religious, but if I were a devout Christian I think I would probably have shut the book and stopped reading at some point." Ebony wrote: "There are Christians who read and enjoy Pullman's books--some of us can make a clear distinction between the dictates of the church visible and the church invisible. (Lewis himself makes this distinction in the novel "The Screwtape Letters.)" I have read Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy and found no problem with reading about this subject, and I am a Christian. It is important to make the distinction between fiction and fact. It is clear that HDM is a work of fiction and while I do not agree with the premise of the story (i.e. that God is lying and the ensuing war), this in no way stops me from reading the books. I liked the first two books but felt the third let the trilogy down. It was far too obvious - I worked out most of the ending very early on in the third book. It was built up with a fair amount of hype and it in no way lived up to it. I plan to read Lewis' Screwtape Letters at some stage, but this will have to wait until I have cleared the backlog of books that Christmas has given me (most amusingly I got given no books for Christmas and yet I now, with the buying of only 1 book, have a pile of 5 books to read and another two arriving here soon). Heidi: "1. Is Draco sexy?" Caius: "No" I have to agree here! Now if we were to ask if Ginny (in a certain picture findable on the PoU group) or Fleur are sexy then quite clearly the answer would be yes! Neil: "I wonder if we can get through this without mention of leather trousers?" I think we failed by you mentioning them (and especially by me then replying!). I get back from a few weeks away and in fan fiction land there are mentions of males walking around in boxer shorts (and less) and Draco having a sponge bath. Will people just face up to the possibility that he is a scumbag? Simon From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Jan 4 19:41:16 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 15:41:16 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - Malfoy & His Goons, Part 1 Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE20@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8511 > -----Original Message----- > From: heidi [SMTP:heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu] > Questions: > 1. Is Draco sexy? > Not to me. Too young, and too bigoted. Not even in leather trousers. > 2. Is Draco redeemable? > Potentially. I do think he's a spoiled bigoted child - but there could be a cataclysmic event in the next books that may cause him to mature. > 3. Does he have any friends? I don't mean flunkies or minders, I mean > someone who he can have a conversation with. If not, could he? > I have the impression that he has friends among the Slytherins. He doesn't sound like someone who doesn't have a circle of support, like Neville. I'm sure he appreciates having big slabs of muscle like Goyle & Crabbe around, but he looks for intellectual conversation elsewhere. > Character Summary: Vincent Crabbe > > Questions: > 1. Is he that stupid or is it an act? > I think he's that stupid. When Ron & Harry were impersonating Crabbe & Goyle, they were awkward and dense. Draco did not take their behaviour to be out of the ordinary. > 2. If he is that stupid, how did he get into Slytherin? What are his > ambitions? Where is his cunning? > I think his ambition is to align himself with someone who has power, or the potential of power. A rich kid like Draco, with a well-connected family, fits the bill. Ditto for Goyle. That stupid, and prefers to align with someone with power, rather than be the one with the power. Sounds like Pettigrew, now that I think about it. Angela > From amy at wintersmoon.com Thu Jan 4 19:50:24 2001 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:50:24 -0000 Subject: Goyle and Scabbers Message-ID: <932k60+lvkk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8512 I've got a question (and I guess it sort of falls into the Draco and company discussion category). When they're on the train going to Hogwarts and Draco and company come into Harry, Ron and Hermione's compartment and pick a fight (ok, I'm drawing a blank here, I can't remember if that was PS/SS or CoS - I don't think it really matters). Anyway, Scabbers bites Goyle. Scabbers, who we now know as Wormtail (aka Peter Pettigrew) has been described by Sirius as never doing anything unless he was going to be getting something out of it. And to be honest, that's really how I imagine Peter's character back when he and the rest of the gang were students at Hogwarts. So...why go out of his way to bite Goyle? He could have easily stayed out of the fight. And it really doesn't strike me as something JKR just threw in and then changed her mind about what Scabbers/Wormtail/Peter was going to be like later. Ron even brings it up when he's defending Scabbers in PoA. Do Goyle (Sr. maybe) and Peter have a past? Something between them that would make Scabbers attack Goyle Jr? Amy From monika at darwin.inka.de Thu Jan 4 20:17:45 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:17:45 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Goyle and Scabbers In-Reply-To: <932k60+lvkk@eGroups.com> References: <932k60+lvkk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8513 On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:50:24 -0000, "Amy Winters" wrote: >Anyway, Scabbers bites Goyle. Scabbers, who we now know >as Wormtail (aka Peter Pettigrew) has been described by Sirius as >never doing anything unless he was going to be getting something out >of it. And to be honest, that's really how I imagine Peter's >character back when he and the rest of the gang were students at >Hogwarts. So...why go out of his way to bite Goyle? He could have >easily stayed out of the fight. I think this scene was in PS. My take on it is that Scabbers had just been given to Ron by Percy, and perhaps he wanted to make sure that Ron would treat him as well as Percy did. Sounds a bit stupid, I know, but I think he wanted to introduce himself as a good pet. Just my thoughts about this incident. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Jan 4 21:19:10 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:19:10 -0000 Subject: Draco. And yet more about Draco. Canon vs. fanon. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <932pce+pthf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8514 Heidi: "1. Is Draco sexy?" Caius: "No" Simon: I have to agree here! Now if we were to ask if Ginny (in a certain picture findable on the PoU group) or Fleur are sexy then quite clearly the answer would be yes!" Can I just say that Dr. Simon Branford is going to suffer for that? For the record, (as everyone stares in shock) I don't find Draco Malfoy sexy either. In the books. Canon Draco and fanon Draco are two entirely different creatures. Frankly, I don't find one single canonical character sexy, although I have some fond feelings for Sirius, and even the question "Do you think any of the HP characters are sexy?" would have reduced me to hysterical laughter eight months ago (my pre-fanfic/HP4GU/PoU days.) They're children! How can Draco be sexy? He's fourteen! I'm quite sure he's shorter than me. Fanon Draco is quite a different matter. It's only in fanfiction that he's "pretty", that his nastiness is softened to wittiness, and that his bad attitude becomes endearing. But he certainly is popular. There are Draco egroups, Draco websites, and ff.net is groaning under the enormous weight of new Draco fanfictions that get uploaded every day. He is also the most frequently slashed character in fandom. Sometimes I think the slash group ought to change its name to "There's Just Something About Malfoy." The basis for all this might seem unclear, but I can't help thinking there must be * some * basis, or this huge fan base wouldn't exist. And last time I was in the Warner Bros. Store I overheard a little girl asking her mother "Why there aren't any Draco toys?" Take that, Warner Bros. Heidi:. Is Draco redeemable? Angela: Potentially. I do think he's a spoiled bigoted child - but there could be a cataclysmic event in the next books that may cause him to mature. Agreeing with Angela here. Maybe my hope that Draco will redeem himself in some way comes from my fondness for the character of Edmund in the Narnia Chronicles. It took the death of Aslan to help redeem Edmund; maybe an equally cataclysmic shock to the system could redeem Draco. In a lot of ways, their characters are similar. Draco is also still a child. That makes him salvageable in a way that, for instance, Lucius isn't. His personality isn't set in stone yet. There's also the example of Snape. Now, I detest Snape with a passion. Horrible nasty man, but then he isn't *evil*. I have no problem whatsoever picturing him as being just like Draco as a child ? stuck-up, nasty, bigoted, and he shares Draco's talent of being able to spot his opponent's weak places and hit them where it hurts. Come right down to it, though, and Snape had his epiphany ? prompted by what, we don't know ? and turned away from Voldemort. That doesn't make him nice, and IMHO it doesn't excuse his verbally abusive behavior towards Harry, Hermione or poor Neville. But it does give Snape layers of complexity that save him from being a flat, evil character. I can't help wondering if she'll let Draco stay a flat, evil character now that she's shown that nice guys aren't always good, and the nasty guys aren't always bad. Heidi asked me yesterday if I could think of anything to put for Draco under "positive characteristics." I couldn't, barring that he's smart and plays decent Quidditch. But I will say that there are Draco scenes in canon that I find could be read in a variety of ways ? I think the scene at the Quidditch World Cup, where he almost seems to be warning Harry and Ron and Hermione about the Death Eaters, has been discussed here already; ditto the scene with the dementors on the train. And I will say that the "bouncing ferret" bit firmly engaged my sympathies towards him. I don't care how ratty he is, no child should be subjected to something like that, especially not at the hands of an authority figure like a teacher. Even Hermione, no big Draco fan, objected, "It's a good thing Mcgonagall stopped it when she did...he could really have hurt Malfoy." Neil: "I wonder if we can get through this without mention of leather trousers?" Simon: I think we failed by you mentioning them (and especially by me then replying!). I get back from a few weeks away and in fan fiction land there are mentions of males walking around in boxer shorts (and less) and Draco having a sponge bath. Will people just face up to the possibility that he is a scumbag? But it's much more fun to imagine that he isn't. And I quite liked Alicia's boxer shorts story. Why shouldn't there be a "sansvetements!" spell? In my own defense I discovered while searching the Draco egroup messages to see if anyone there had come up with a positive characteristic for Draco, that I didn't invent the Draco in leather thing. It appears to have been a fixation for quite some time. Whole threads are taken up with what kind of leather trousers they would be ? cut, color, fit, the works. Apparently I am not as weird as I once thought. Cassie From sara.ludwig at telia.com Thu Jan 4 21:53:00 2001 From: sara.ludwig at telia.com (Sara Ludwig) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:53:00 +0100 Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's References: <01C07692.EB11F7E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <017e01c0769a$141167a0$1fc116c2@pnxpg> No: HPFGUIDX 8515 Thanks catrina ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fr?n: Snuffles MacGoo Till: 'HPforGrownups at egroups.com' Skickat: den 4 januari 2001 11:11 ?mne: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's Catrina said: What page is this on, please. I could check if I knew, can't reread the whole book though. P16, chp 1 the riddle house (sorry) storm -----Original Message----- From: Sara Ludwig [SMTP:sara.ludwig at telia.com] Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:41 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: SV: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Fran: Sheryll Townsend Till: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Skickat: den 3 januari 2001 15:06 Amne: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: The death before Harry's --- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Pippin said: Some editions say "curse" rather than > "death" thus referring to > the real Mad Eye Moody. > > Yup, my version says 'curse'. ..But I wonder why > Voldemort is worried about > this? Is it a limited energy thing? I would not have > thought he had any > compunctions about killing/curing as many people as > possible? > > storm > I'm winging it here, as my copies of books are on loan to a friend (well, the Canadian English ones are, and I only have the first 3 in French). I seem to recall that my version said there was only one more *obstacle*, as opposed to *curse* or *death*. I thought the Canadian versions were the same as the UK, could someone check a UK version and let me know what it says? Thanks, Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lj2d30 at gateway.net Thu Jan 4 22:11:40 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:11:40 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussion: Ch 24 - Rita Skeeter's Scoop In-Reply-To: <3A53EB8E.58878953@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <932ses+o2u8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8516 > > 2. Would you rather take a class from Hagrid or Professor Grubbly- Plank? Well, I don't know much about Prof. G-P, and I do know Hagrid. I think Hagrid is very knowledgable about the various magical critters he teaches (except for the the Skrewts), but I would like to see him expand his creatures to include the less frightening/dangerous sorts. I know he has a love for the big and scary, but he needs to diversify! Also, I think he needs to crack down on Draco & Co. when they are not listening/being disrespecful. "Fifty points from Slytherin and detention fer not bein' prepared fer class!" and expect more from the students. I really like Hagrid and wish more of the students had a more of an idea what a fabulous guy he is. My 2 knuts. Trina From relliott at jvlnet.com Thu Jan 4 22:30:17 2001 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 16:30:17 -0600 Subject: Book Cover Questions References: <978603656.4285@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000801c0769d$eaf8f0a0$3fb191d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8517 Please Help! I facilitate a Harry Potter book club for middle school students and they have a question I can not answer. On the back cover of the American edition of Goblet of Fire, there is a picture we can not identify. The picture is: on the back of the cover, on the left hand side, toward the middle of the page, below the Beauxbatons' carriage, split in half by the dragon wing. It is a tan/yellow object with a split down the middle and 2 strings out of the top. Our guess was that it was Rita Skeeter as an animagi but, her beetle picture is on the first page of Chapter 37 "The Beginning". From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Jan 4 22:31:10 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:31:10 -0000 Subject: Book Cover Questions In-Reply-To: <000801c0769d$eaf8f0a0$3fb191d8@computer> Message-ID: <932tje+u98o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8518 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rachelle Elliott" wrote: On the back cover of > the American edition of Goblet of Fire, there is a picture we can not > identify. It is a tan/yellow object with a split down the > middle and 2 strings out of the top. Scholastic says it is supposed to be a screwt...(I know it doesn't look like one) Pippin From lj2d30 at gateway.net Thu Jan 4 22:33:17 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:33:17 -0000 Subject: Illustration pet peeve In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <932tnd+sag7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8519 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > Post-PS illustrations that show Harry with taped glasses irritate me. Mr. Weasley fixed Harry's glasses at the beginning of CoS (when H emerges from Knockturn Alley), and presumably he didn't just magic some new tape into place but actually FIXED them. I just assume that since Harry spends the summer holidays with the Dursleys, Dudley, deprived of Harry-bashing for the school year, breaks them once again. I hope someone fixes them upon his return whether a Weasley parent or Hermione! Trina From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 20:51:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:51:32 -0500 Subject: British Harry more honest? and Hermione's forthrightness Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8520 Cynthia wrote: > I am new to HPforGrownups and wonder if you could tell me how to obtain >UK editions of the HP series. Welcome aboard the Hogwarts Express, Cynthia! My local library just happens to have some of the UK editions. They couldn't get the US ones fast enough so they ordered them from England! You might have similar luck, but you'll just have to pull them off the shelves and check the publisher. Or look at the first chapter and see whether there's a . after Mr in "Mr Dursley." ;-) Why do you want the UK version? Is there any reason that the parents would be more amenable (aside from the absence of the words "crap" and "pee" as noted)? Amy - - - - - - - - - - The Whomping Willow was a very violent tree that stood alone in the middle of the grounds. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 4 23:17:13 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:17:13 -0000 Subject: British Editions (a question) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93309p+e343@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8521 Amy wrote: "Why do you want the UK version? Is there any reason that the parents would be more amenable (aside from the absence of the words "crap" and "pee" as noted)?" What? Are you kidding? We're (at least I am) obsessed. Why WOULDN'T we want every version of Harry we could get our hands on? I wanted to order the British audio tapes with all the B&N gift certificates that I got for Christmas and I was wondering if anyone can tell me whether they are compatible with B&N's European counterpart- bol.com. Has anyone ever used this website? I would order from www.Amazon.co.uk except I have gift certificates... Thanks, Scott PS:As to those changes you mentioned...IMO at least "loo" is a much nicer term than "taking a pee" and far more appropriate than "BATHroom". Most Americans however only only give me quizical look and say "What's that?"... From yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com Thu Jan 4 23:54:04 2001 From: yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com (yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 18:54:04 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book Cover Questions Message-ID: <29.eb78e38.2786671c@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8522 In a message dated 1/4/01 5:27:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, relliott at jvlnet.com writes: > The picture is: on the back of the cover, on the left hand > side, toward the middle of the page, below the Beauxbatons' carriage, split > in half by the dragon wing. It is a tan/yellow object with a split down the > I'm not really sure, but I thought it was a Blast-Ended Skrewt(sp?). [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at walton.to Thu Jan 4 23:54:20 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:54:20 +0000 Subject: Loos and other lavatorial niceties In-Reply-To: <93309p+e343@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8523 Scott said: > PS:As to those changes you mentioned...IMO at least "loo" is a much > nicer term than "taking a pee" and far more appropriate than > "BATHroom". Most Americans however only only give me quizical look > and say "What's that?"... I was given a copy of "Debrett's New Guide to Etiquette and Modern Manners: The Indispensible Handbook" on the occasion of my 18th birthday, and it has this to say on the proper lavatorial appelations: "Only the other day a woman was overheard in a supermarket remarking about her son's fiancee: 'She's a nice girl, but I wish she wouldn't say "toilet".' Of all spoken solecisms, toilet remains the worst crime. Lavatory and loo are the acceptable alternatives." It later says (although I don't have a direct quote) that one should never utter what it calls "active verbs of bodily function" such as pee, poo, etc. Rather, one should use the less specific "go to/use the loo/lavatory". It says that the rather quaint "spend a penny" has fallen out of direct usage. Of course, most of what Debrett's says needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt. Aunt Petunia probably has a copy, for instance. Just a wee diversion (sorry about the pun...). --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to I didn't vote for his daddy either. ======================================== From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 5 00:06:06 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:06:06 -0500 Subject: Malfoy, Crabbe & Goyle (filk) References: <92hhil+5re1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002401c076ab$4d9a0ac0$46dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 8524 MALFOY, CRABBE AND GOYLE (to the title song from Pinky and the Brain) (The Scene: Slytherin's Common Room: Enter DRACO MALFOY, VINCENT CRABBE, and GREGORY GOYLE) CRABBE & GOYLE (spoken): Gee, Draco, whaddya wanna do tonight? DRACO: (spoken) Same thing we do every night: try to get one over on Harry Potter! (enter HARRY POTTER & RON WEASLEY, protected by the Invisibility Cloak) HP & RW: They're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle They're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle One's our antagonist, the others mere foils Since our series' premiere They've done little more than sneer They annoy Us, they're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle.... To the house of Slytherin They landed with a thud And with an evil grin They'll slime every Mudblood They're Malfoy, Goyle and Crabbe They're Malfoy, Goyle and Crabbe They're making a stab at a mammoth power grab To prove their faith is bad They'll hang around like chad Don't enjoy Them, they're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle.... - CM (Narf!) C... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at walton.to Fri Jan 5 00:19:59 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:19:59 +0000 Subject: There's Something about Malfoy (filk) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8525 Oh dear. Look what I got myself into... ============================= (Lights up. Vincent Crabbe sitting on a tree, playing a guitar. Gregory Goyle walking beneath, gazing at Draco Malfoy.) CRABBE: His friends would say stop whining They've had enough of that. His friends would say stop pining, There's other girls to look at. They've tried to set him up with Millicent and Pansy P, But there's something about Malfoy that they don't know. Malfoy, there's just something about Malfoy. Well, his friends say, look life's no fairy tale, That he should have some fun, he's suffered long enough. Well, they may know about domestic and imported ale, But they don't know a thing about love. (Cut to scene outside Florida beach house) Well, his friends would say he's dreaming And living in the past, But they've never fallen in love, So his friends need not be asked. His friends would say be reasonable, His friends would say just let go, But there's something about Malfoy that they don't know. Malfoy, there's just something about Malfoy. Oh, Malfoy...there's just something about Malfoy... (Man pushes the still-strumming Crabbe into the sea) ======================================== Anyone want to write the rest of THAT movie? --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to It ain't over until your brother counts the votes. ======================================== From john at walton.to Fri Jan 5 00:22:09 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:22:09 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New Co-Moderators In-Reply-To: <001b01c076b1$32cc1b60$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8526 Our Caprine Friend said: > Wow! All hail the new (and old) moderators, and a big & heartfelt TIA! > How about an induction ceremony at the next chat? > > BTW, Back when I set out to find a good HP list, I visited quite a few > places, newsgroups included . Good groups have good moderators, > which puts this group in league of its own. Flattery will get you nowhere. But keep trying :) > But WAIT A SECOND--just what stance do the new justices take on Wand Order, > Romantic Pairings, and Hogwarts Demographics?? > Suppose it should come down to an election count dispute!--suppose the > court's packed with a bunch of those ... remember which side he was on last> ... oh never mind ... I'd just like to say that I'm fully in favor of ruminant caprine rights. ::ahem:: --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to "Don't Blame Me--I fully perforated my chad" ======================================== From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 00:29:24 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:29:24 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... Message-ID: <9334h4+jcds@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8527 I just thought about this and we've probably discussed it before but I thought I'd ask anyway. How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? I am an only child and perhaps that's the real reason I don't particulary like or relate to Ron. If that holds true do the other Harry/Hermione types come from smaller families, or are perhaps the older of siblings? Also, because my mind seems to have gone blank, is Hermione an only child? I've always thought she is, but is there any explicit evidence that proves it? I can't remember for the life of me and I don't feel like wading through the books. I just thought that it is possible that her brother(s)/sister(s) could me regular muggles and therefore we've not heard of them... Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 5 00:52:28 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 18:52:28 -0600 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... References: <9334h4+jcds@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A551ACC.190E19B4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8528 Hi -- Scott wrote: > If that holds true do the other Harry/Hermione types come from smaller > families, or are perhaps the older of siblings? I am the oldest of 2 girls. > Also, because my mind seems to have gone blank, is Hermione an only > child? I've always thought she is, but is there any explicit evidence > that proves it? I have the impression that she is an only child, although there's no explicit evidence (more just the omission of mention). I would think by now some mention would have been made of her muggle brother or her younger sister who she keeps prodding to show magical abilities. So, I think she must be an only child. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From amy at pressroom.com Fri Jan 5 00:50:08 2001 From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 19:50:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... References: <9334h4+jcds@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001301c076b1$74cc2a00$0200a8c0@pressroom.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8529 I am a Ron fan and I am an only child. Maybe I am a little jealous of the Weasley family-I would have loved to have lots of brothers and sisters. In a matter of fact, I would have loved to be one of the Weasley siblings. I don't know if Hermione is an only child but now that you mention it, she seems to be an only child to me. Amy From lj2d30 at gateway.net Fri Jan 5 01:04:41 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:04:41 -0000 Subject: HP on ET Message-ID: <9336j9+muv9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8530 FYI for our non-US members: ET is Entertainment Tonight, a syndicated 1/2 hour of Hollywood gossip and information. In the last 2 minutes of the program they showed a picture of Daniel Radcliffe as Harry in his Hogwarts robes and striped scarf holding Hedwig on one arm. It was a brief glance, but I didn't agree with his hair or glasses. The hair was too straight, albeit untidy, for my vision of Harry and his glasses were wire-rimmed, which to me don't seem very breakable. Having had wire frames before I can say that they are bendable but not as likey to break on the nose piece as plastic frames. Also, wire frames are more expensive and I can't imagine the Dursleys spending the money for wire frames for this interloper for whom they are now responsible. Trina From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 01:09:43 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:09:43 -0000 Subject: HP on ET In-Reply-To: <9336j9+muv9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9336sn+2ojm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8531 Aargh! Just missed it! Anyone get a screen grab? From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 5 01:27:55 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:27:55 -0000 Subject: HP Wall Calendar Question Message-ID: <9337ur+u6a9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8532 This concerns the 2001 Wall Calendar from Warner Bros. On the December grid, what is that melted toffee like object in the second column, first row? Is it supposed to be the Stone??? BTW, the flute looks sort of like that 'magic flute' on the HR Puffenstuff TV show. :-) Milz From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 5 01:39:02 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 4 Jan 2001 17:39:02 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New Co-Moderators Message-ID: <20010105013902.3405.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8533 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 5 01:43:47 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 01:43:47 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <9334h4+jcds@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9338sj+3r33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8534 Scott wrote: > I just thought about this and we've probably discussed it before but > I thought I'd ask anyway. > > How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. > lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? > > I am an only child and perhaps that's the real reason I don't > particulary like or relate to Ron. If that holds true do the other > Harry/Hermione types come from smaller families, or are perhaps the > older of siblings? > > Also, because my mind seems to have gone blank, is Hermione an only > child? I've always thought she is, but is there any explicit evidence > that proves it? I can't remember for the life of me and I don't feel > like wading through the books. I just thought that it is possible > that her brother(s)/sister(s) could me regular muggles and therefore > we've not heard of them... > > Scott I'm the Ginny of my family...the only girl and the youngest in a family of 5. My brothers were stellar students, big-time award winners, valedictorians, etc. My parents never did the comparision thing, but I knew teachers did. In fact, I remember one teacher remarking how she couldn't understand why brother # 4 was so good in trigonmetry and I wasn't as good. Ron hit the nail on the head in PS/SS when he told Harry if he did as well as his brothers it wouldn't be a big deal, but if he did worse it would be. As for Hermione, my college roommate Freshman year was an only child and very Hermione-like: a bossy know-it-all. :-) Milz From john at walton.to Fri Jan 5 02:09:46 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 02:09:46 +0000 Subject: News: Harry casts spell on parents Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8535 I thought the list might find this interesting. It's from the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1100000/1100729.stm It might be especially useful for Penny... ::grin:: --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to "Don't Blame Me--I fully perforated my chad" ======================================== The spellbinding adventures of Harry Potter have cast his name into the 10 most popular in England and Wales. The wizard schoolboy, created by JK Rowling, has helped make Harry the sixth most popular boys' name of 2000 - the first time it has appeared in the top 10. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Boys top five Jack Thomas James Joshua Daniel ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Top of the list are still Jack for boys and Chloe for girls, just as every year since 1996. Last year 5,328 boys were named Harry, the Office of National Statistics said. A spokeswoman said: "We can only speculate about Harry's popularity but the only thing we can think of in the past year is Harry Potter." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Girls top five Chloe Emily Megan Charlotte Jessica ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Harry Potter books have sold millions around the world, making him one of the best-loved characters of recent years. In 1999 the name Harry was given to 4,162 newborns, making it the 14th most popular boys' name, one place up on the previous year. It did not appear on the list at all between 1944 and 1994. For the fifth year running Jack, Thomas, James, Joshua and Daniel stayed among the top five parents' choices. And for girls Chloe, Emily and Megan remain firm favourites, followed by Jessica and Lauren. Daisy, at number 50, saw the greatest rise in popularity last year, soaring up 20 places. Despite their high profile, there are poor showings for Rocco, Brooklyn and Leo. But Mia, favoured by Titanic star Kate Winslet, makes number 45 in the girls list, while Dylan, the name chosen by actors Catherine Zeta Jones and Michael Douglas for their son, is up nine places to 38. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Jan 5 02:20:44 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:20:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] News: Harry casts spell on parents References: Message-ID: <3A552F7C.626E137F@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8536 John Walton wrote: > I thought the list might find this interesting. It's from the BBC: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1100000/1100729.stm > > It might be especially useful for Penny... ::grin:: Hey, why didn't they interview US? We actually DID name our son Harrison after the books (no we don't think Potter's name is short for Harrison or Harold for that matter, we just wanted him to be able to have a nicknameable name, since neither of us did) - and I bet in 20 years we'll learn that we were the first people who did (August 2, 1999) From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 02:34:29 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:34:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - Malfoy & His Goons, Part 1 References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE20@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <3A5532B5.66824577@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8537 ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > > 2. Is Draco redeemable? > > > Potentially. I do think he's a spoiled bigoted child - but there > could be a cataclysmic event in the next books that may cause him to mature. As in (for those who have read The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander) Ellidyr, Prince of Pen-Llarcau? Perhaps. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 02:42:24 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 20:42:24 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] British Editions (a question) References: <93309p+e343@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A553490.3A38463D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8538 Scott wrote: > PS:As to those changes you mentioned...IMO at least "loo" is a much > nicer term than "taking a pee" and far more appropriate than > "BATHroom". Most Americans however only only give me quizical look > and say "What's that?"... On an only marginally related but humorous note, I am told by old classmates from my high school, Winston Churchill High School in San Antonio, that they got some interesting reactions to the "WC" on their class rings and baseball caps and such when they were in Europe. Who knew it stood for water closet? Who in Texas even knew what a water closet *was*? --Amanda, who's heard a bidet described, too, but never seen one.... From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 5 02:57:29 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 02:57:29 -0000 Subject: GLBT wizards/Sinistra's name In-Reply-To: <932hq6+kpv0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <933d6p+sbqb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8539 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > Naama said: > > < comfortable dancing cheek to cheek with a person of their own gender? > >> > > Well not if they were both gay . I don't think Susan was > suggesting that two elderly heterosexual men would be likely to do > a `Fred and Ginger' on the dancefloor, but I'm sure she > will clarify > Now, Neil, don't make assumptions. I've seen Greek (heterosexual) men dance cheek to cheek...let's not be ethnocentric...(this is meant not too seriously)...there are some cultures where men and women do not dance together.... From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 5 03:07:12 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 03:07:12 -0000 Subject: GLBT wizards/Sinistra's name/from Susan's Partner In-Reply-To: <932hq6+kpv0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <933dp0+sbhp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8540 My partner Karen is now going to be heard from. Karen assumed that that Sinistra is Dutch -- specifically FRIESIAN -- NOT Gruniger (which she can't spell because she's a doctor)...all those names that end with STRA such as Reedstra.... Susan From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 03:08:36 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:08:36 -0600 Subject: Snapefans group Message-ID: <3A553AB4.EBA3D2C9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8541 Hey, other Snape analyzers! Come on over to the group. I'm getting downright detailed about my Snape theories, and nobody to tell me I'm a loon.... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 03:11:12 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:11:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... References: <9334h4+jcds@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A553B50.79F1A605@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8542 Scott wrote: > How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. > lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? I am the baby of the family, and the only girl. I had brothers who achieved in the areas *I* wanted, areas I do not have the talent for, and have spent my life thinking that the things I *can* do, since they come easy, aren't worth much. I'm not a Ron fan, therefore, simply because he doesn't stand out for me. He's my norm. But I can see that there could be some strong identification sparked for others who have similar family settings. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 03:13:27 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:13:27 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Snapefans] LONG--Snape thoughts--let's get rolling...] Message-ID: <3A553BD7.1F8BC4E5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8543 See? --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com wrote: > You say that you think Snape left Voldemort because because he killed > Lily, but Dumbledore says that Snape became a spy before the fall of > Voldemort at great personal risk, which would indicate that he was > leaving Voldemort (in his heart, at least) at that time. So that > would have occurred before Lily's death. Not exactly. I think that for some unspecified reason, probably that Lily married James, during Voldemort's "era" Snape decided to become a spy for the good guys. I doubt he was pleased at having to protect James, but I bet he'd do it to protect Lily, too. It is intimated in that confrontation scene between Harry and Snape, right after the Hogsmeade mud-throwing incident, that Snape might have been the one to tip James or Dumbledore off about the leak in their little clique. So clearly he was a spy for some time. What I meant was the thing that pushed Snape to a complete break. Dumbledore seems totally convinced that Snape is trustworthy and will never return to Voldemort. It seems that Voldemort is pretty certain too, although he does say "he believes" has left him completely, not "he knows." I think these two, Dumbledore and Voldemort, knew Snape well enough to understand his internal code, and knew that Voldemort had gone too far in killing Lily. Snape clearly hated James, and probably was very hurt by whatever rejection Lily did, and probably hated James even more because Snape would believe James knew of his humiliation. But he would have protected James because of Lily. No matter who ended up with her, I doubt Snape ever opened his heart more than once, and his one love, regardless of who *she* loved, was killed and Voldemort did it. But whatever the details, I think this nicely explains the complexity of Snape's reactions to Harry. Harry looks like James--bad. Harry has Lily's eyes--painful. Harry, by being the cause of Voldemort's attack, caused Lily's death--painful. Lily died to protect Harry--reason to protect, as carrying out Lily's wishes (as some have construed some of Snape's comments as anger that Harry puts himself in danger the careless way his father did). I don't think Snape had, until the end of book 4, ever even considered or treated with Harry as his own person; I think Harry has been a walking mass of conflicting associations for him. I think that's one reason that his expression was "unreadable" or whatever the term was. New thoughts were percolating. And as I said, I think that it is not that Dumbledore asks Snape to return to Voldemort and that danger which makes Dumbledore look worried, but that in asking him to try to return to Voldemort, Dumbledore must ask Snape to say that Lily wasn't really such a big deal. > Snape cannot go back to Voldemort because he has been exposed, not > only by not showing up with the other death eaters, Any good conniving nasty person can think up a real good excuse for that. Like, it was the middle of the tournament and he was in front of loads of people, and he can serve the Dark Lord better if everyone doesn't *know,* etc. > but also from PS/SS when he meets Quirrell in the Forbidden Forest and > confronts him. Voldemort would have been in the turban at that time, > so he would have witnessed the conversation. I can't remember--do we ever hear what was said? Or just Quirrell's reactions? But again, Snape can go back and confess his folly, that he betrayed his lord for a trivial thing like the love of a woman, get zapped and then re-instituted as a member. Might take him a while to get really "in," but then again, Voldemort has no one (that we know of) close to Harry anymore, and he might take the risk of allowing Snape back on board. --Amanda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: Snapefans-unsubscribe at egroups.com From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 5 03:14:48 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 03:14:48 -0000 Subject: Draco. Who is sexy? In-Reply-To: <932pce+pthf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <933e78+puhq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8544 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" wrote: > > Heidi: "1. Is Draco sexy?" > Caius: "No" > Simon: I have to agree here! Now if we were to ask if Ginny (in a > certain picture findable on the PoU group) or Fleur are sexy then > quite clearly the answer would be yes!" > > Can I just say that Dr. Simon Branford is going to suffer for that? > For the record, (as everyone stares in shock) I don't find Draco > Malfoy sexy either. How could Draco be sexy? He's such a vile little boy. If you're in your 40s, like me, it's difficult to find any of the characters sexy, I think. The series is really told from Harry's POV, and he is just moving out of latency in the GoF. As a grown-up, my favorite characters (ignoring the question of who is sexy) are grown-ups (Dumbledore, Hagrid, Sirius, Lupin), although I'm fond of the kids. My partner (perhaps we should not take her assuming that Sinistra was Dutch/Friesian too seriously because she tells me that in Grand Rapids, Michigan she was taught that Adam and Eve were Dutch) and I just conferred about who we think is sexy. She thinks McGonagall has appeal, but she reminds me that she just loves older women, and she thinks perhaps Sirius Black is a little sexy --but she likes scruffy --- in both men and women. McGonagall is too, too serious for me -- if pushed I'd have to say Remus Lupin..... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 5 03:23:22 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 03:23:22 -0000 Subject: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) AND later in life In-Reply-To: <3A54C3BD.4BAB4ABC@texas.net> Message-ID: <933ena+2uqc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8545 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > I'm pleased to hear that people find magical abilities later in life. > > I love my "Muggles for Harry Potter" poster, but really don't think > > that I'm a Muggle. SO...everyone on this list will acquire their > > magical abilities BEFORE the next book.... > > Oh, goodness, I can think of SEVERAL people who would look good with > > a pig's tail! > > You leave me out of this. > > --Amanda That made me laugh. I'm so sorry, Amanda, but you're not even close to being on the list. Just today, a batterer told me I was going to burn in hell for all eternity because I was helping that (expletive deleted) woman leave him.... A defense attorney told me that I had no regard for his client's constitutional rights, and that I wanted all batterers sent to prison without trial. Someone on my Vietnamese list told me that my politics were "goofy". And then my son said "I don't like your cute little face". This is a nice, sweet place -- the HP list -- Susan From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 5 03:38:47 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 03:38:47 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sinistra & Moody's dance References: <933d6p+sbqb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01d601c076c9$180ec8a0$793770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8546 Naama said: <> I said: <. I don't think Susan was suggesting that two elderly heterosexual men would be likely to do a `Fred and Ginger' on the dancefloor, but I'm sure she will clarify>>. Susan replied: <> According to GoF, Sinistra and Moody were described as indulging in "an extremely ungainly two-step" (can you do a two-step with one leg?). *** Suddenly, the music changed and the people dancing around the two Professors were startled to see that they had charmed their robes into a semblance of traditional Greek costume and moved into a slow, insistent pattern of steps, their beefy arms linked across their shoulders. Gradually, the stomping pace increased - faster and faster and faster still - until Professor Moody's wooden leg was gouging deep channels in the heavily-waxed floor. Soon, the two men were locked in a frenzied finale, their sweaty jowls pressed into a manly embrace. The music reached its peak, and members of the crowd were driven to smash expensive china plates and cheer; their eyes wet with tears. Nearby, Argus Filch stood, broom in hand, staring at the scene, muttering something unmutterable under his breath... *** Is that what you meant? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From Ellimist15 at aol.com Fri Jan 5 04:27:15 2001 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:27:15 EST Subject: Book Cover Questions Message-ID: <78.ec2519f.2786a723@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8547 I believe it's actually one of Hagrid's blast-ended skrewts. Of course, they didn't have any visible heads, so my second guess would be Rita Skeeter. Ellie Rosenthal Rachelle asked: << Please Help! I facilitate a Harry Potter book club for middle school students and they have a question I can not answer. On the back cover of the American edition of Goblet of Fire, there is a picture we can not identify. The picture is: on the back of the cover, on the left hand side, toward the middle of the page, below the Beauxbatons' carriage, split in half by the dragon wing. It is a tan/yellow object with a split down the middle and 2 strings out of the top. Our guess was that it was Rita Skeeter as an animagi but, her beetle picture is on the first page of Chapter 37 "The Beginning". >> From Ellimist15 at aol.com Fri Jan 5 04:36:04 2001 From: Ellimist15 at aol.com (Ellimist15 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:36:04 EST Subject: Malfoy, Crabbe & Goyle (filk) Message-ID: <94.e4d65f5.2786a934@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8548 Another brilliant filk from Caius Marcus! At the "chad" comment you had me laughing so hard I had tears in my eyes. Thanks so much for sharing these hilarious parodies with us! Oh, and Steve - thanks so much for archiving all the filks on your site! I tried to keep up with the message numbers for reference, but when on "digest" this can be a bit of a problem. Oh, and in case anyone is interested, I redid "What's In a Name" for the new year. I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions. The new URL is http://www.stas.net/5/wian Ellie Rosenthal << MALFOY, CRABBE AND GOYLE (to the title song from Pinky and the Brain) (The Scene: Slytherin's Common Room: Enter DRACO MALFOY, VINCENT CRABBE, and GREGORY GOYLE) CRABBE & GOYLE (spoken): Gee, Draco, whaddya wanna do tonight? DRACO: (spoken) Same thing we do every night: try to get one over on Harry Potter! (enter HARRY POTTER & RON WEASLEY, protected by the Invisibility Cloak) HP & RW: They're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle They're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle One's our antagonist, the others mere foils Since our series' premiere They've done little more than sneer They annoy Us, they're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle.... To the house of Slytherin They landed with a thud And with an evil grin They'll slime every Mudblood They're Malfoy, Goyle and Crabbe They're Malfoy, Goyle and Crabbe They're making a stab at a mammoth power grab To prove their faith is bad They'll hang around like chad Don't enjoy Them, they're Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle Goyle.... - CM (Narf!) C... >> From kathleen at carr.org Fri Jan 5 04:48:01 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 23:48:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... Message-ID: <200101050504.f05540C00829@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8549 >How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. >lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? I am as much like an only child as it is possible to be and still have siblings...my brother and sister are 11 and 16 years older than I am, respectively. I never really had to worry about living up to them, which is good, since I put enough pressure on myself (yeah, I relate to Hermione a lot!). However, I have an enormous close-extended family (I guess that's an oxymoron but oh well). My dad is one of ten kids (Irish Catholic--what can I say?). So I think that's part of the reason I love the Weasleys. I think JKR captures perfectly the way big families seem to be so willing to open up and absorb new people. The interactions between Ron and his siblings are some of my favorite parts of the books. So I am not sure where that fits with your theory, but there you go. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 06:04:59 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 00:04:59 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sinistra & Moody's dance References: <933d6p+sbqb@eGroups.com> <01d601c076c9$180ec8a0$793770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <00ef01c076dd$70ee76a0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8550 Rolls with laughter. Oh, Neil, you did it again. Oh, gawd, I think I'm loo-ing myself. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Ward To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 9:38 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Sinistra & Moody's dance Naama said: <> I said: <. I don't think Susan was suggesting that two elderly heterosexual men would be likely to do a `Fred and Ginger' on the dancefloor, but I'm sure she will clarify>>. Susan replied: <> According to GoF, Sinistra and Moody were described as indulging in "an extremely ungainly two-step" (can you do a two-step with one leg?). *** Suddenly, the music changed and the people dancing around the two Professors were startled to see that they had charmed their robes into a semblance of traditional Greek costume and moved into a slow, insistent pattern of steps, their beefy arms linked across their shoulders. Gradually, the stomping pace increased - faster and faster and faster still - until Professor Moody's wooden leg was gouging deep channels in the heavily-waxed floor. Soon, the two men were locked in a frenzied finale, their sweaty jowls pressed into a manly embrace. The music reached its peak, and members of the crowd were driven to smash expensive china plates and cheer; their eyes wet with tears. Nearby, Argus Filch stood, broom in hand, staring at the scene, muttering something unmutterable under his breath... *** Is that what you meant? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Fri Jan 5 05:13:32 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 05:13:32 -0000 Subject: Professor Sinistra Message-ID: <933l5s+qvhr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8551 Professor Sinistra is a witch. She is referred to as "the astronomy witch" at one point. Sorry, I don't have the book/chapter/page for you--it's late and I'm past tired--but I know it's in there. And she's listed in the Lexicon's list of staff members past and present as Professor Sinistra (witch). I wonder if the name wasn't chosen simply for the sound. It does have sort of an astronomical flavor to it... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 5 06:02:05 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 06:02:05 -0000 Subject: Sinistra & Moody's dance In-Reply-To: <01d601c076c9$180ec8a0$793770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <933o0t+7nc9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8552 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Naama said: > > < comfortable dancing cheek to cheek with a person of their own > gender?>> > > I said: > > <. I don't think Susan was > suggesting that two elderly heterosexual men would be likely to do > a `Fred and Ginger' on the dancefloor, but I'm sure she will clarify>>. > > Susan replied: > > < dance cheek to cheek...let's not be ethnocentric...(this is meant not > too seriously)...there are some cultures where men and women do not > dance together....>> > > > According to GoF, Sinistra and Moody were described as indulging in "an > extremely ungainly two-step" (can you do a two-step with one leg?). > > *** > Suddenly, the music changed and the people dancing around the two Professors > were startled to see that they had charmed their robes into a semblance of > traditional Greek costume and moved into a slow, insistent pattern of steps, > their beefy arms linked across their shoulders. Gradually, the stomping > pace increased - faster and faster and faster still - until Professor > Moody's wooden leg was gouging deep channels in the heavily-waxed floor. > Soon, the two men were locked in a frenzied finale, their sweaty jowls > pressed into a manly embrace. The music reached its peak, and members of > the crowd were driven to smash expensive china plates and cheer; their eyes > wet with tears. > > Nearby, Argus Filch stood, broom in hand, staring at the scene, muttering > something unmutterable under his breath... > *** > > Is that what you meant? > > Neil > _____________________________________ > of course, that is exactly what I meant, Neil, you must have read my mind From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 5 06:04:01 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 06:04:01 -0000 Subject: Professor Sinistra In-Reply-To: <933l5s+qvhr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <933o4h+o7mv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8553 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > Professor Sinistra is a witch. She is referred to as "the astronomy > witch" at one point. Sorry, I don't have the book/chapter/page for > you--it's late and I'm past tired--but I know it's in there. And > she's listed in the Lexicon's list of staff members past and present > as Professor Sinistra (witch). I wonder if the name wasn't chosen > simply for the sound. It does have sort of an astronomical flavor to > it... > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Karen, my partner, was sure she was a "she", and had been thinking of her as this nice Dutch/Friesian woman, but karen went to sleep at 10 and didn't want to look it up...thanks Steve..... From john at walton.to Fri Jan 5 06:14:07 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 06:14:07 +0000 Subject: OT: Bidets (was: British Editions (a question)) In-Reply-To: <3A553490.3A38463D@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8554 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > On an only marginally related but humorous note, I am told by old > classmates from my high school, Winston Churchill High School in San > Antonio, that they got some interesting reactions to the "WC" on their > class rings and baseball caps and such when they were in Europe. Who > knew it stood for water closet? Who in Texas even knew what a water > closet *was*? > > --Amanda, who's heard a bidet described, too, but never seen one.... (To the tune of "That's Amore" by Dean Martin) "When you're common and poor and don't know what it's for That's...a bidet. It's an issue of class It's for washing your--" [and here it ends for taste reasons.] --John, whose French teacher told a funny anecdote about asking for "le compartiment d'eau" on a school French exchange. ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to The last time somebody listened to a Bush, a whole bunch of folks wandered in the desert for 40 years... ======================================== From catlady at wicca.net Fri Jan 5 08:26:51 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 00:26:51 -0800 Subject: owl - draco - shopping - loo - wc Message-ID: <3A55854B.3A4255BE@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8555 Caius's Rita Skeeter filk begins: > HARRY: > My owl he bought to me the daily news If it's HIS owl, it's Hedwig, who is 'she'. Heidi's Draco summary said: > Age: We don't know if he's older or younger than Harry, but as they > are the same year, he was born in either 1979 or 1980, and is 10 > or 11 when he first appears, in Madame Malkin's shop I had a hunch, and found an ephemeris for 1980, and confirmed that on June 24, the planets were in a good position to create a Draco.... In a fic that I'm writing, the young Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle, Nott, Potter, and Bones are all born in the same summer (Draco was a little early and Harry was a little late) because they resulted from a pair of really good Halloween parties, one for the good guys and one for the bad guys. > 1. Is Draco sexy? He will be, when he's old enough and has filled out a little ... lanky blonds with arrogance and sarcasm (and a British accent!) always make me wish that I was still foolish enough to do more than ogle and fantasize.... I forgot to write down who asked: >I would like to know how they all manage to do their Christmas > shopping in Hogsmeasde without the other two noticing. I would > like to know how they mnaged to buy things before they were > allowed to go to (or even knew of) Hogsmeade. Hermione bought the Broomstick Service Kit for Harry's birthday by Owl Order. Maybe they did other shopping by Owl Order. Nitpick: Ron knew of Hogsmeade from his brothers, altho' he doesn't seem to have mentioned it to Harry. In the matter of 'loo': Tim once heard a documentary on the radio in which it was explained that at some point the French called the privy 'the smelly room' -- that is, 'le chambre scent'. Which was then called 'room 100' (le chambre cent) as a pun. Some Brits copied calling it Room 100 and someone read the 100 as loo. In the matter of Winston Churchill (as reported by Amanda): It is reported that when he first lost re-election to Parliament, some of his un-friends sent him a telegram: "What good is a WC without a seat?" -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 5 08:51:04 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon Branford) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:51:04 -0000 Subject: Draco. And about Me (Dr Branford) In-Reply-To: <932pce+pthf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9341to+b1ss@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8556 Heidi: "1. Is Draco sexy?" Caius: "No" Simon: "I have to agree here! Now if we were to ask if Ginny (in a certain picture findable on the PoU group) or Fleur are sexy then quite clearly the answer would be yes!" Cass: "Can I just say that Dr. Simon Branford is going to suffer for that?" Another threat! Am I going to get chucked in that cell with Lupin? Neil: "I wonder if we can get through this without mention of leather trousers?" Simon: "I think we failed by you mentioning them (and especially by me then replying!). I get back from a few weeks away and in fan fiction land there are mentions of males walking around in boxer shorts (and less) and Draco having a sponge bath. Will people just face up to the possibility that he is a scumbag? Cass: "But it's much more fun to imagine that he isn't. And I quite liked Alicia's boxer shorts story. Why shouldn't there be a "sansvetements!" spell? In my own defense I discovered while searching the Draco egroup messages to see if anyone there had come up with a positive characteristic for Draco, that I didn't invent the Draco in leather thing. It appears to have been a fixation for quite some time. Whole threads are taken up with what kind of leather trousers they would be ? cut, color, fit, the works. Apparently I am not as weird as I once thought." No. It just means that there are lots of other weird people out there! A think a certain author has a lot to answer for, in writting a bad kid who everyone (well lots of people) in fan fic land seems to think will be redeemed and be near perfect in the end. Simon From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Jan 5 08:49:45 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:49:45 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Professor Sinistra Message-ID: <01C0775D.2DA7A800.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8557 Damm Steve - I was loving that thread storm -----Original Message----- From: Steve Vander Ark [SMTP:vderark at bccs.org] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 3:14 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Professor Sinistra Professor Sinistra is a witch. She is referred to as "the astronomy witch" at one point. Sorry, I don't have the book/chapter/page for you--it's late and I'm past tired--but I know it's in there. And she's listed in the Lexicon's list of staff members past and present as Professor Sinistra (witch). I wonder if the name wasn't chosen simply for the sound. It does have sort of an astronomical flavor to it... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Jan 5 09:54:29 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:54:29 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups]The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander (was Character Sketch - Malfoy & His Goons, Part 1 Message-ID: <01C0775D.3A522620.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8558 Great books! Good reading for those who are harry'ed out or in need of something new. And yes, Amanda, good likeness. storm -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [SMTP:editor at texas.net] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 12:34 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - Malfoy & His Goons, Part 1 ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > > 2. Is Draco redeemable? > > > Potentially. I do think he's a spoiled bigoted child - but there > could be a cataclysmic event in the next books that may cause him to mature. As in (for those who have read) Ellidyr, Prince of Pen-Llarcau? Perhaps. --Amanda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From zsenya at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 11:30:13 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 11:30:13 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <001301c076b1$74cc2a00$0200a8c0@pressroom.com> Message-ID: <934b85+r9ph@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8559 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Gourley" wrote: > I am a Ron fan and I am an only child. Maybe I am a little jealous of the > Weasley family-I would have loved to have lots of brothers and sisters. In a > matter of fact, I would have loved to be one of the Weasley siblings. I am from a middle-sized family - three girls. I am pretty sure of one reason why I love the Weasleys so much - all the boys! Jealousy! I would have given ANYTHING to have older brothers growing up. I had this image in my head that all older brothers would be Richie Cunninghams and that is exactly what I wanted it (incidentally, he had red hair, come to think of it) I love Ron, but I also just love his family - there is just so much energy coming out of the burrow. All of my books are on loan to various family members at the moment, but doesn't it say somewhere that Hermione is an only child? If not, Ithink we can safely assume it - if she had siblings, they would be mentioned by now, don't you think? From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Jan 5 12:16:38 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 23:16:38 +1100 Subject: (OT) WCs and other toilet issues References: <93309p+e343@eGroups.com> <3A553490.3A38463D@texas.net> Message-ID: <00d301c07711$5b01fc20$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8560 I've never seen WC here in Australia. We say "going to the toilet" and it's considered to be plenty polite enough. Better than "dunny" which is more slangy. I have heard "loo" occasionally but it's in the more old-fashioned crowd. "Skip to the loo," anyone? Definately not "bathroom". You go to the bathroom to have a shower, but not to "go to the toilet". Simon - who's seen a bidet but didn't have the courage to try it. ----- Original Message ----- Amanda wrote: > On an only marginally related but humorous note, I am told by old > classmates from my high school, Winston Churchill High School in San > Antonio, that they got some interesting reactions to the "WC" on their > class rings and baseball caps and such when they were in Europe. Who > knew it stood for water closet? Who in Texas even knew what a water > closet *was*? > > --Amanda, who's heard a bidet described, too, but never seen one.... From andrea at noembromation.com.br Fri Jan 5 12:34:27 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea H Bonfanti) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:34:27 -0200 Subject: Missing paragraphs Message-ID: <001101c07714$07854680$6355e7c8@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8561 Hi, everyone! Yesterday, I bought a copy of CoS in Portuguese. I've read all the books in English (UK edition), and now I want to read them in my mother tongue (mainly to complain about the translation :-) ). But, then, to my complete astonishment, I've found that my British edition may be missing a couple of paragraphs! In chapter 5 (The Whomping Willow), right after Ron and Harry miss the Hogwarts Express, Ron comes up with the idea of flying the Ford Anglia to schoool. In my British paperback edition, he says: 'We're stuck, right? And we've got to get to school, haven't we? And even underage wizards are allowed to use magic if it's a real emergency, section nineteen or something of the Restriction of Thingy ...' And the immediate following paragraph goes: Harry's feeling of panic turned suddenly to excitement. 'Can you fly it?' However, in my Brazilian book, there are two paragraphs BETWEEN the ones above. Traslating from Portuguese: 'But your mum and dad ...' said Harry, pushing the barrier once more in the vain hope that it would give in. 'How will they get home?' 'They don't need the car!' said Ron, impatiently. 'They can Apparate! You know, disappearing here and reappearing at home. They just use Floo Powder and the car because we're all underage and don't have a license to Apparate.' Can anyone tell me if you have these paragraphs in your books? They make sense to me, as I suppose Harry would be concerned about stealing the Weasley's ride home and it's the first time anyone ever mentions Apparating. And, as bad as the Brazilian translation may be, I don't think they'd go around making paragraphs up. Thanks, Andrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jan 5 13:06:53 2001 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:06:53 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... References: <9338sj+3r33@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <039a01c07718$60db9e60$3089883e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 8562 Scott wrote: How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? > > I am an only child and perhaps that's the real reason I don't > > particulary like or relate to Ron. If that holds true do the other > > Harry/Hermione types come from smaller families, or are perhaps the > > older of siblings? I'm an H/H shipper and certainly not an only child but I am the eldest of three, two girls and a boy and frequently longed to be an only child while growing up. Still do on occasion. I was an only child until I was 5 and did not respond well to the arrival of my brother. > Ron hit the nail on the head in PS/SS when he told Harry if he did as > well as his brothers it wouldn't be a big deal, but if he did worse it > would be. To a certain extent I would go along with this but I have always been the academic achiever in my family and attended a selective school etc. My brother who has so far failed do well at school definitely feels that this is a big deal and somehow my fault. He blames me and my parents for his inability to get a's or even c's. However I can still remember when I was 16 my parents praising my brother for getting 40% when yet again I had brought home an average of 85% and it was ignored. I of course kept telling them what I'd got because I wanted to be told "Well done" only to be told not to boast. I now understand that my brothers 40% was far more of an achievement than my 85% (he has several specific learning disorders) but even now it still rankles. I suppose that is why I sympathise with Hermione (and to a esser extent Percy)her identity at least initially comes from her academic achievements and like me she ended up a victim of her own succss once you achieve a certain standard it becomes expected of you and you have to live up to it. Therefore you end up working harder and harder desperately wanting someone, anyone to be pleased with you. I imagine her parents have very high expectations of her although interestingly JKR never mentions her parents attitude. I suppose what I'm saying is while I'm sure it is humiliating to perform worse than your siblings being a high achiever isn't all its cracked up to be either. Look at poor Percy ( I do sympathise with him ) his siblings treat him appalingly and nobody stops them. Mrs Weasley is proud of him but she doesn't stop the others from making his life a misery. Again I speak from personal experience in an atteempt to make himself feel better my brother called me 'swot' 'boffin' and would run around the house chanting 'Heather hasn't got a life' and it hurt especially as my parents didn't stop him. So here is another question How many of Percy's more unfortunate traits self importance, bossiness etc stem from his siblings unkind treatment? Strangely Bill and Charlie don't suffer in the same way I think it is possible that they are both hero worshiped by the other Weasleys because while the implication is that they achieved above average academic results, their strengths verge towards the heroic, star quidditch player, dragon breeder/trainer and treasure hunter. Abilities the younger Weasley boys admire far more than mere cleverness. Indeed i would say teh wizarding world as a whole would admire these qualities more. Sorry if this has become a little garbled. Heather From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Jan 5 13:08:46 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:08:46 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] News: Harry casts spell on parents Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE26@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8563 > -----Original Message----- > From: heidi [SMTP:heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu] > > Hey, why didn't they interview US? We actually DID name our son Harrison > after > the books > > And I thought you named him after Harrison Ford! ;-) Angela From andrea at noembromation.com.br Fri Jan 5 13:26:52 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea Bonfanti) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 13:26:52 -0000 Subject: HP on ET In-Reply-To: <9336sn+2ojm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <934i2s+qsis@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8564 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: > Aargh! Just missed it! > Anyone get a screen grab? Check this link: http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?2816 to see the picture. I think he looks cute, but the hair really looks too tidy and what's with the uniform? I suppose they just invented the scarf and the coat of arms. Andrea From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 5 13:36:24 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:36:24 -0600 Subject: News: Harry casts spell on parents References: Message-ID: <3A55CDD8.A541806D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8565 Hi -- John Walton wrote: > I thought the list might find this interesting. It's from the BBC: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1100000/1100729.stm > > It might be especially useful for Penny... ::grin:: Yes ..... but really only if our baby "girl" was hiding something from us during the ultrasound. Like Kathy, I wouldn't have much luck convincing the husband that Hermione is a good name for her. I didn't even try -- couldn't find a single Hermione lurking anywhere in our family tree. Harry, by contrast, is all over the place on Bryce's side (just Harry -- not Harold, Henry or Harrison). Thanks though John -- I'll keep it just in case (or for the next kid). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 5 13:42:55 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 07:42:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... References: <9338sj+3r33@eGroups.com> <039a01c07718$60db9e60$3089883e@co.uk> Message-ID: <3A55CF5F.E658C0B4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8566 Hi -- Heather Edmonds wrote: > I'm an H/H shipper and certainly not an only child but I am the eldest > of > three, two girls and a boy and frequently longed to be an only child > while growing up. Still do on occasion. I was an only child until I > was 5 and did not respond well to the arrival of my brother. I'm 5 years older than my sister too. Being an only child for such a long time & then having a sibling was also a big change for me too. > I suppose that is why I sympathise with Hermione (and to a esser > extent > Percy)her identity at least initially comes from her academic > achievements and like me she ended up a victim of her own succss once > you achieve a certain standard it becomes expected of you and you have > to live up to it. Therefore you end up working harder and harder > desperately wanting someone, anyone to be pleased with you. I wrote a message on this point sometime back -- I agree 100%. This was *very* true for me as well. Maybe this is a theory for H/H shippiness. > Look at poor Percy ( I do sympathise with him ) his siblings treat him > > appalingly and nobody stops them. Mrs Weasley is proud of him but she > doesn't stop the others from making his life a misery. > > So here is another question How many of Percy's more unfortunate > traits self importance, bossiness etc stem from his siblings unkind > treatment? This is an interesting thought -- hadn't considered this before but it does make sense. Back when we discussed which characters we all identified with, I said that I identified most strongly with Hermione & to a lesser extent with Percy. Just read that message last night while going through messages for my Hermione FAQ. Sounds like we have alot in common Heather! > Strangely Bill and Charlie don't suffer in the same way I think it is > possible that they are both hero worshiped by the other Weasleys > because > while the implication is that they achieved above average academic > results, their strengths verge towards the heroic, star quidditch > player, dragon breeder/trainer and treasure hunter. Many of us also believe they are quite a bit older than Percy, almost their own separate family unit. That might explain some of that phenomenon. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Jan 5 13:38:36 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:38:36 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sibling rivalry, shipping and the rest of us. .. Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE27@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8567 > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott [SMTP:harry_potter00 at yahoo.com] > > How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. > lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? > I have one brother, who is 18 months younger. He turned out to be the one who excelled in school and skipped a grade, so from Grade 3 on we were in the same class. Since he actually enjoyed math and science, he outdid me in those areas. I almost failed Grade 11 math, because I was more interested in doodling in my notebook than paying attention, and the teacher did not try to engage me in the class. It was very difficult to bring home a report card with a 40 on it, when my brother's had 99 for the same subject. When we graduated, he got five awards, and I got none. That night is when I resembled Ron the most, because my mother kept going on and on and on about how proud she was of Steve. I ended up locking myself in my room and it took my grandfather to coax me out. I like the Weasley family, because they are loud and active and their house looks like a loving place to be. Sure, Molly is strict and disapproving at times, but she also loves her children and they know it. Ron may whine about his annual Christmas jumper, but I think he also know that this is one of Molly's ways of expressing her affection. Angela From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Jan 5 13:52:18 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:52:18 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco. Who is sexy? Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE28@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8568 > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] > > > If you're in your 40s, like me, it's difficult to find any of the > characters sexy, I think. The series is really told from Harry's POV, > and he is just moving out of latency in the GoF. > > As a grown-up, my favorite characters (ignoring the question of who > is sexy) are grown-ups (Dumbledore, Hagrid, Sirius, Lupin), although > I'm fond of the kids. > I think Sirius and Lupin are sexy, but certainly none of the students. Bill Weasley is probably the youngest character I find appealing. I've got to start checking out the Sirius & Lupin fanfic one of these days. Angela > From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Jan 5 14:08:55 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:08:55 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <934b85+r9ph@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <934khn+864p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8569 I am a Ron fan, the youngest of four high achieving siblings (two bros and a sister) who are all much older than I am. I can definitely identify with the way Ron feels about having to follow his siblings through school. Hermione reminds me a lot of the way I acted when I was in school. I *do* identify with her. Pippin From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Jan 5 14:14:51 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 10:14:51 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sibling rivalry, shipping and the rest of us. .. Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE29@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8570 > -----Original Message----- > From: Heather Edmonds [SMTP:Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk] > . > > So here is another question How many of Percy's more unfortunate traits > self > importance, bossiness etc stem from his siblings unkind treatment? > It could be a vicious cycle - the siblings make fun of him because of his self-importance, and his self-importance and bossiness stems from his siblings making fun of him? Rereading GoF, I have the uneasy feeling that Percy Weasley is not going to be aligning with the forces of good against Voldemort. From Ron's comments and their attempts to find out about Mr. Crouch through Percy, it feels like Percy is going to take the same stance as Mr. Fudge. Neither are going to believe Voldemort has returned to power unless Voldy apparates in front of them and spits in their face. > Strangely Bill and Charlie don't suffer in the same way I think it is > possible that they are both hero worshiped by the other Weasleys because > while the implication is that they achieved above average academic > results, > their strengths verge towards the heroic, star quidditch player, dragon > breeder/trainer and treasure hunter. > I think it's because Bill & Charlie are cool, myself. They don't stick to the rules with as much stubbornness as Percy. If Percy would "lighten up", maybe play a few rounds of Quidditch with his brothers instead of preparing self-important documents on the thickness of cauldron bottoms, maybe his family would ease up on him. I can see how you are empathizing with Percy, and I do respect your feelings in this matter. I'm looking at this from another perspective - maybe the Weasleys have given up on Percy ever joining in on family activities, because he's always shut in his room polishing his badges or researching the proper amount of twigs to be on a broom. Imagine how the series would be different if Percy had been the orphan given to the Dursleys, or if Harry had been given to the Weasleys to raise. Methinks Percy would prefer life in the Dursley house, with their concern with what is proper. I'm sure Petunia does not have any cheap frying pans from the dollar store in her kitchen! Angela From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 5 14:34:41 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 5 Jan 2001 06:34:41 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: GLBT & PWD wizards (was PWD wizards) AND later in life Message-ID: <20010105143441.19656.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8571 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Jan 5 15:59:40 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 07:59:40 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Missing paragraphs Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8572 Those paragraphs are in my book... I just re-read that actually and I know it's in my copy (the US copy). Meredith ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Andrea H Bonfanti [mailto:andrea at noembromation.com.br] ** Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 4:34 AM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: [HPforGrownups] Missing paragraphs ** ** ** Hi, everyone! ** ** Yesterday, I bought a copy of CoS in Portuguese. I've read ** all the books in English (UK edition), and now I want to ** read them in my mother tongue (mainly to complain about the ** translation :-) ). But, then, to my complete astonishment, ** I've found that my British edition may be missing a couple ** of paragraphs! ** ** In chapter 5 (The Whomping Willow), right after Ron and ** Harry miss the Hogwarts Express, Ron comes up with the idea ** of flying the Ford Anglia to schoool. In my British ** paperback edition, he says: ** 'We're stuck, right? And we've got to get to school, ** haven't we? And even underage wizards are allowed to use ** magic if it's a real emergency, section nineteen or ** something of the Restriction of Thingy ...' ** And the immediate following paragraph goes: ** Harry's feeling of panic turned suddenly to excitement. ** 'Can you fly it?' ** However, in my Brazilian book, there are two paragraphs ** BETWEEN the ones above. Traslating from Portuguese: ** 'But your mum and dad ...' said Harry, pushing the barrier ** once more in the vain hope that it would give in. 'How will ** they get home?' ** 'They don't need the car!' said Ron, impatiently. 'They ** can Apparate! You know, disappearing here and reappearing at ** home. They just use Floo Powder and the car because we're ** all underage and don't have a license to Apparate.' ** Can anyone tell me if you have these paragraphs in your ** books? They make sense to me, as I suppose Harry would be ** concerned about stealing the Weasley's ride home and it's ** the first time anyone ever mentions Apparating. And, as bad ** as the Brazilian translation may be, I don't think they'd go ** around making paragraphs up. ** ** Thanks, ** Andrea ** ** ** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ** ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 15:56:08 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 09:56:08 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... References: <934b85+r9ph@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A55EE98.B65F2243@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8573 zsenya at yahoo.com wrote: > I am from a middle-sized family - three girls. I am pretty sure of > one reason why I love the Weasleys so much - all the boys! Jealousy! I > would have given ANYTHING to have older brothers growing up. Damn, I wish I'd known you then...you could have had mine. Cheap. > I had this image in my head that all older brothers would be Richie > Cunninghams And that's exactly where the Richie Cunninghams live, in the imagination. Real older brothers sing "Amazing Grace" loudly in the back seat, windows down, while you're driving for the first time, make you walk on the other side of the street on the way home from school so no one will know you're with them, lie under your bed when you're little and reach up and grab you, so that you have a lifelong fear of underbed monsters even as a supposedly rational adult....shall I continue? I love them to death, but Richie Cunnigham they ain't. --Amanda, getting all the mileage she can out of past traumas now that they feel guilty about it.... From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Jan 5 16:06:00 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:06:00 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: News: Harry casts spell on parents Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8574 ** ** Hi -- ** ** John Walton wrote: ** ** > I thought the list might find this interesting. It's from the BBC: ** > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1100000/1100729.stm ** > ** > It might be especially useful for Penny... ::grin:: ** ** Yes ..... but really only if our baby "girl" was hiding ** something from ** us during the ultrasound. Like Kathy, I wouldn't have much luck ** convincing the husband that Hermione is a good name for her. ** I didn't ** even try -- couldn't find a single Hermione lurking anywhere in our ** family tree. Harry, by contrast, is all over the place on ** Bryce's side ** (just Harry -- not Harold, Henry or Harrison). ** ** Thanks though John -- I'll keep it just in case (or for the ** next kid). ** ** Penny Harriet? Ok, no... I just wanted to mention my good friend thought her baby was a girl all through the ultrasounds and it turns out he was a boy. He was, indeed, hiding something. Not to say this is common, but you never know... Mer From jciesla at madbbs.com Fri Jan 5 15:42:38 2001 From: jciesla at madbbs.com (Julia L. Ciesla) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:42:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) WCs and other toilet issues In-Reply-To: <00d301c07711$5b01fc20$4cdafea9@EAGLE> References: <93309p+e343@eGroups.com> <3A553490.3A38463D@texas.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010105104238.00798540@mail.madbbs.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8575 I went swimming at one of my mom's friend's house when I was a child. After I changed in the bedroom.. I noticed there were two toilets in the bathroom! I found out then it was a bidet. Never had a chance to experience one. Mind you.. this was in a U.S.A. home. I still don't know why the woman had a bidet. It isn't commonplace as most of us Americans have demonstrated *Grins* Julia At 11:16 PM 1/5/01 +1100, you wrote: >I've never seen WC here in Australia. We say "going to the toilet" and it's >considered to be plenty polite enough. Better than "dunny" which is more >slangy. I have heard "loo" occasionally but it's in the more old-fashioned >crowd. "Skip to the loo," anyone? > >Definately not "bathroom". You go to the bathroom to have a shower, but not >to "go to the toilet". > >Simon - who's seen a bidet but didn't have the courage to try it. From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 16:01:54 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:01:54 -0600 Subject: Is McGonagall scruffy? Message-ID: <3A55EFF2.6D994CB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8576 I was looking at the picture of Harry and Hedwig, and followed some links to this story about the cats on the set. It says that McGonagall's cat form is "scruffy." Is she? Or is this another movie invention? http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=2798 --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 5 16:05:52 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:05:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco. Who is sexy? References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE28@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <3A55F0DF.2FEED9D5@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8577 ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > I think Sirius and Lupin are sexy, but certainly none of the > students. Bill Weasley is probably the youngest character I find appealing. > I've got to start checking out the Sirius & Lupin fanfic one of these days. With some trepidation, I toss out Snape's name. I don't think he's sexy per se, but I think he has some version of the "Spock effect," if that makes any sense. He's got that "irredeemable, but the right woman could make it all right" feel to him. As such, he's got a definite appeal, but I wouldn't go so far as sexy. --Amanda From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Jan 5 16:30:47 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 08:30:47 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8578 ** And that's exactly where the Richie Cunninghams live, in the ** imagination. ** Real older brothers sing "Amazing Grace" loudly in the back ** seat, windows ** down, while you're driving for the first time, make you walk ** on the other ** side of the street on the way home from school so no one ** will know you're ** with them, lie under your bed when you're little and reach ** up and grab ** you, so that you have a lifelong fear of underbed monsters even as a ** supposedly rational adult....shall I continue? I love them ** to death, but ** Richie Cunnigham they ain't. ** ** --Amanda, getting all the mileage she can out of past ** traumas now that ** they feel guilty about it.... Hey, my older sisters were no better, I'll tell you! Locking me in phone booths, blindfolding me and taking me downtown and making me lead them home by threat of pain at, oh, 7 or 8 yrs old, keeping the operation game handy so when I came to say hi they'd make the game buzz so I'd run away because I was scared of the sound (3 or 4 y/o then), putting spiders at the door of my mom's room with me inside, knowing I wouldn't go near the spider and then I'd be stuck in my mom's room with nothing to do all day, the list goes on and on. I'm the youngest of 3 girls and there's 5 years between us (I'm 26, one's 31, the other 36). Truly, I think I relate to Harry because when I was little I always wanted to be an orphan. Chalk that up to my sisters... I have always had an orphan thing - Annie, Oliver, Anee of Green Gables, Francis Burnett books, you get the picture. I always imagined myself to be the kid who's had a hard life but has a heart of gold and it works out for the best in the end. Now I've not had anything close to a hard life in all reality, but it's one of those childhood daydream/go-play-by-yourself-because-we-don't-want-to-deal-with-you kinds of things. Mer From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 5 16:23:44 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:23:44 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <934b85+r9ph@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <934seg+j489@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8579 zsenya wrote: I would have given ANYTHING to have older brothers growing up. Before I went to college and lived in an all female dormitory, I would have replied to your statement "Take them PLEASE!!!!". But since my college days I have gained a greater appreciation for my big brothers. :-)Milz From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Jan 5 16:41:28 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:41:28 -0000 Subject: that cinderella complex & a little malfoy moment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <934tfo+6vav@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8580 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Meredith Wilson wrote: > > I have always had an orphan > thing - Annie, Oliver, Anee of Green Gables, Francis Burnett books, you get > the picture. I always imagined myself to be the kid who's had a hard life > but has a heart of gold and it works out for the best in the end. > Oh, *definitely* - and I think that's why I picked up SS in the first place - I love all those stories (and you can add Huck Finn to the list as well for the "classic US story) - my favorite fairy tale has always been Cinderella (although reading Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister, which I was talking about yesterday on Peg's Wild Swans list gave me a great new perspective on that) (and on a semi-related note, bringing this back to the Character Assasination (um, I mean discussion) of the Week - am I the only one who pictures Draco Malfoy as looking exactly the same as I picture Colin Craven from Secret Garden - and behaving more or less the same wa, too (at least before Colin gets to experience the magic of the garden) (and I also suspect that Colin Creevy's name owes more than a little to Mary Lennox's cousin...)) From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Jan 5 17:03:20 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:03:20 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: that cinderella complex & a little malfoy moment Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8581 ** --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Meredith Wilson ** wrote: ** > ** > I have always had an orphan ** > thing - Annie, Oliver, Anee of Green Gables, Francis ** Burnett books, ** you get ** > the picture. I always imagined myself to be the kid who's had a ** hard life ** > but has a heart of gold and it works out for the best in the end. ** > ** ** Oh, *definitely* - and I think that's why I picked up SS in ** the first ** place - I love all those stories (and you can add Huck Finn to the ** list as well for the "classic US story) - my favorite fairy tale has ** always been Cinderella (although reading Confessions of an Ugly ** Stepsister, which I was talking about yesterday on Peg's Wild Swans ** list gave me a great new perspective on that) Right! Huck Finn is a good one to add. ** (and on a semi-related note, bringing this back to the Character ** Assasination (um, I mean discussion) of the Week - am I the only one ** who pictures Draco Malfoy as looking exactly the same as I picture ** Colin Craven from Secret Garden - and behaving more or less the same ** wa, too (at least before Colin gets to experience the magic of the ** garden) (and I also suspect that Colin Creevy's name owes ** more than a ** little to Mary Lennox's cousin...)) Loving Secret Garden as much as I do, I'm surprised I hadn't thought of the Colin Creevey/Colin Craven thing. I think Draco's snotty in a different way though. I think they're both bitter and angry but Colin lashes out at everyone and reforms pretty easily, while Draco is much more calculated. His placement of comments is usually to the benfit of himself and quite the opposite for someone else - usually Harry. Plus, Draco can put out a sugar-sweet kiss up front if he needs to for Snape or any other authority. Hmm. Something to think about. Mer From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 17:13:07 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:13:07 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <9334h4+jcds@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <934vb3+2d60@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8582 Sorry to respond so late... due to technical difficulties (read: Ameritech being *idiotic*--the Michiganders on list will know why), my home Internet connection won't be restored until on or before Tuesday at 7 p.m. So until then, I'm relegated to my school server (which doesn't allow Hotmail or AOL access) and the rinky-dink computer lab in my building. Anyway, re: ships and birth order... I think I proposed something like this a few weeks ago. I'm the oldest child and grandchild in my generation--there was a 10 year gap between my birth and that of my youngest aunt. My real life personality is a cross between Percy's and Hermione's... my younger sisters and cousins (there's 17 going on 18 of us) are all Rons, Greds and Forges, and Ginnys. And of course I'm firmly H/H. ;) --Ebony From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 5 17:21:02 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:21:02 -0000 Subject: Is McGonagall scruffy? In-Reply-To: <3A55EFF2.6D994CB@texas.net> Message-ID: <934vpu+8a8u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8583 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I was looking at the picture of Harry and Hedwig, and followed some > links to this story about the cats on the set. It says that McGonagall's > cat form is "scruffy." Is she? Or is this another movie invention? > > http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=2798 > > --Amanda Hmmmmm.....I imagined Minerva as the antithesis of scruffy.....I hate it when movies do this stuff. Susan From moongirlk at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 17:57:12 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:57:12 -0000 Subject: responses to chapter summary/character study (kinda long) Message-ID: <9351to+amli@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8584 > heidi wrote: QUESTIONS: 1. Is JKR, by making Hagrid blameless for whatever his >mother, the Giantess, may have done, and very different from what >witches & wizards believe about giants, setting up a parallel where the >children of the death eaters cannot be blamed for their parents' >actions and act very differently than their parents do/did? Seems likely to me. In CoS, when Harry's worried because Riddle says they have so much in common, and because the Sorting Hat says he'd fit in Slytherin, Dumbledore tells him it's our decisions that make us who we are. I would think this would apply to Hagrid, and even Malfoy and the other death eater's kids. The problem is, they have to make those different decisions. So far, Malfoy and company haven't done that, but that doesn't mean they can't. 2. Would you rather take a class from Hagrid or >Professor Grubbly-Plank? Discuss. Sooo much rather take from Hagrid. First of all, I don't know anything about Grubbly-Plank. Secondly, just because Hagrid hadn't introduced a unicorn doesn't mean he wouldn't have. He does know an awful lot about all magical creatures - just look at the forbidden forest scene from PS/SS. I'm guessing there's some sort of curriculum for Care of Magical Creatures just like there is for everything else, so just because Hagrid's introducing his idea of 'interesting creatures' doesn't mean he won't also cover the usual suspects. You can't judge him by the flobberworm mess, because he was emotionally overwrought at the time and was afraid he was going to be fired for putting the kids in danger. Oh yeah, and Hagrid's a sweetheart and I love him to death. So that's enough for me. I think of all the people in the books he's got the best, most loyal and truest heart. I always love the guys who are somewhat simple. 3. Why doesn't Harry pull out the Marauder's Map to see if Rita is on Hogwarts grounds & then track her down in her bug form well before the end of the book? I guess because he didn't know she was a bug for most of the time. Or maybe just because it fit the plot better this way. Or wait, didn't Moody/Crouch borrow the map? Heidi wrote again: Questions: 1. Is Draco sexy? Not at all, not to me, and not even to my inner adolescent. I was a pretty timid kid, and I remember being devastated by guys like him. 2. Is Draco redeemable? Definitely, but not necessarily. Meaning he could, of course, change. A lot of the guys who were rotten to other kids in school are now perfectly nice guys. It happens. Also see above about Hagrid/death eater's kids. 3. Does he have any friends? I don't mean flunkies or minders, I mean someone who he can have a conversation with. If not, could he? Not that I've seen, but he does seem popular among the Slytherins. He is often mentioned as 'performing' (ie mocking Harry) for the whole Slytherin table. So he may very well be friends with many of them that we don't know about. For Goyle and Crabbe: Questions: 1. Is he that stupid or is it an act? 2. If he is that stupid, how did he get into Slytherin? What are his ambitions? Where is his cunning? Probably fairly thick. Nothing to say dumb kids can't get into Hogwarts, or into Slytherin. You can be stupid and ambitious fairly easily. Cunning - not so sure, but they're at least smart enough to align themselves with someone who has more smarts and social power. And the Sorting Hat has to put them somewhere - they're not hardworking, easygoing Hufflepuff types, they're certainly not Ravenclaw brains, and they don't show any Gryffindor qualities either. From andrea at noembromation.com.br Fri Jan 5 18:12:08 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea Bonfanti) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:12:08 -0000 Subject: Is McGonagall scruffy? In-Reply-To: <934vpu+8a8u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9352po+6r1t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8585 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > I was looking at the picture of Harry and Hedwig, and followed some > > links to this story about the cats on the set. It says that > McGonagall's > > cat form is "scruffy." Is she? Or is this another movie invention? > > > > http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=2798 > > > > --Amanda > I read the story and, even though they mention the Professor, it seems to me that they were actually describing Mrs. Norris. I guess *she* would be scruffy. Andrea From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Fri Jan 5 18:12:58 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:12:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco. Who is sexy? References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE28@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <008301c07743$236f8840$0c6dd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8586 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > If you're in your 40s, like me, it's difficult to find any of the > > characters sexy, I think. The series is really told from Harry's POV, > > and he is just moving out of latency in the GoF. Not quite 40 yet (39 tomorrow) I'll agree there. Its only the fanfic that ages them up in which they beging to have any sex appeal at all. > > > > As a grown-up, my favorite characters (ignoring the question of who > > is sexy) are grown-ups (Dumbledore, Hagrid, Sirius, Lupin), although > > I'm fond of the kids. > > > I think Sirius and Lupin are sexy, but certainly none of the > students. Bill Weasley is probably the youngest character I find appealing. > I've got to start checking out the Sirius & Lupin fanfic one of these days. I'll agree with this. I think Bill is certainly attractive. He's my favorite Weasley. Just his initial description was attractive, then when he showed up as a stand in for Harry's family with Mrs. Weaseley, that made him more so. As for Lupin and Sirius, most of you know where I stand on Sirius. For the newcomers...I'm obsessed. He's just about the most attractive book character I've come across in a long time. I'm writing a fanfic with our fearless leader Penny that is primarily about Sirius, I'm hopeless. The Links section of the egroup homepage will lead you to some of the better fanfic. carole > Angela > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From Amy_kuras at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 18:33:30 2001 From: Amy_kuras at yahoo.com (Amy_kuras at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:33:30 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <934vb3+2d60@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93541q+aqpc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8587 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > Sorry to respond so late... due to technical difficulties (read: > Ameritech being *idiotic*--the Michiganders on list will know > why), my home Internet connection won't be restored until on or > before Tuesday at 7 p.m. So until then, I'm relegated to my > school server (which doesn't allow Hotmail or AOL access) and > the rinky-dink computer lab in my building. > > Anyway, re: ships and birth order... I think I proposed something > like this a few weeks ago. I'm the oldest child and grandchild in > my generation--there was a 10 year gap between my birth and > that of my youngest aunt. My real life personality is a cross > between Percy's and Hermione's... my younger sisters and > cousins (there's 17 going on 18 of us) are all Rons, Greds and > Forges, and Ginnys. > > And of course I'm firmly H/H. ;) > > --Ebony Yes, you've gotta love Ameritech.... I was very much like Hermione as a kid...bossy, thought I was smarter than everyone, didn't fit in that well, and stood up for the underdog! I also had bushy brown hair :-). (still brown, but it's de-bushed). I also was much like Percy, and it was because when other kids would make fun of me I would adopt the air of superiority and attachment to rules as a protective measure. Now as a grownup when I have realized the rule breakers have all the fun, I still sometimes fall ino that mindset. I think it's also a way for him to differentiate himself--Bill and Charlie are the Golden Children, Fred and George are the jokesters, Ginny is the girl and Ron is the one who's friends with the famous Harry Potter. BY putting on airs of extreme intelligence (I don't think he's really that smart, either, at least not common-sense smart) he can stand out. I also do think there's an age gap--in my husband's family, where there's a big one and a pretty significant gap between the oldest three kids and the youngest two, his next-oldest brother acts very much like an oldest child, as does Percy. I do love Ron, maybe because my husband (who is the youngest of five boys, there is no Ginny in his family) is sort of like him. I really want Ron to make Head Boy!! And I agree with the person that said they don't find any of the characters sexy--I mean, they're kids, and I just don't see them as "sexy." Maybe later, but not at the stage the books are at now. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 3 20:47:54 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 15:47:54 -0500 Subject: HP religion debates (mostly OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8588 Caius Marcus wrote: >As for Pullman, I've been put off on reading him not due to his religious >stance, but because of the critics every reviewer I>'ve >seen feels compelled to throw in some snide anti-HP remark, implying that >HP is mere cheez-whiz on white bread compared to the intoxicating medley of >Amber Spyglass flavors. The same thing has irritated me no end (but, me being hooked on Pullman already, it hasn't been enough to put me off). I'd urge you not to let the smug critics (shall we call them Percys?) sway you one way or the other. I am not sure why Pullman reviewers feel the need to mention HP at all. It makes no more sense than reviewing Hamlet and throwing in a gratuitous comment about Pullman's failure to match Shakespeare's subtlety and skill, or reviewing The Cat in the Hat and comparing it unfavorably to Harry Potter because it is intended for a younger audience, therefore necessarily less complex. In short--and I sincerely hope I am not offending anyone here--some books ARE more complex, multilayerd, allusive, philosophical, etc. than others. JKR's books ARE less complex (etc.) than Pullman's trilogy, in my view. So what? Does that mean I can't read both for the joys they have to offer? I read The Cat in the Hat, too. It isn't likely to change my life profoundly, but it is a fine work of fiction for children and thoroughly enjoyable for adults. In other words, I think there are books out there more complex and (therefore) ultimately rewarding than HP, but I see no reason to stop reading HP, much less trash it, because of that (to me) self-evident fact. We each and all read for many, many reasons. Okay, now I have my whole speech ready for the day my classically-educated dad asks me why I'm "wasting time" reading HP. Amy P.S. Thanks, CM, for the "anti-Deist reading list"! As a spiritual descendent of the Deists, I'm intrigued. Add 'em to the growing list of must-reads. . . P.P.S. And also thanks for reminding us, as Ebony also did very eloquently by example a while back, that not all evangelicals think alike (they're not all fundamentalists either). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Amy_kuras at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 18:37:37 2001 From: Amy_kuras at yahoo.com (Amy_kuras at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:37:37 -0000 Subject: Is McGonagall scruffy? In-Reply-To: <9352po+6r1t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93549h+elrg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8589 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Andrea Bonfanti" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski > wrote: > > > I was looking at the picture of Harry and Hedwig, and followed > some > > > links to this story about the cats on the set. It says that > > McGonagall's > > > cat form is "scruffy." Is she? Or is this another movie invention? > > > > > > http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=2798 > > > > > > --Amanda > > > > I read the story and, even though they mention the Professor, it > seems to me that they were actually describing Mrs. Norris. I guess > *she* would be scruffy. > > Andrea My cats are going to leave me to go be in movies,I just know it!!! A two-hour workday (although that s two hours more than they do n a typical day, come to think of it)?....a cat hotel? makeup? Oh my From SHENmagic at aol.com Fri Jan 5 18:42:16 2001 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:42:16 EST Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Subject:=20Missing=20paragraphs?= Message-ID: <8f.51c6ef2.27876f88@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8590 In a message : "Andrea H Bonfanti" to my complete astonishment, I've found that my British edition may be missing a couple of paragraphs! Can anyone tell me if you have these paragraphs in your books? Hi Andrea! Those paragraphs ARE in my American CoS; I'm too swamped at the moment to check my British edition. Also: Subject: Re: HP on ET Andrea Bonfanti" writes >Check this link: >http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?2816 >to see the picture. I think he looks cute, but the hair really looks >too tidy and what's with the uniform? I agree, that the hair is too tidy - its shaggy, but I see it sticking up several which (witch?) ways. I'm more bothered that our Harry looks nearly plump. I saw Pay it Forward a few months back, and thought Hayley Joel Osmond had the skinny earnestness I picture Harry with. Aylihael, who reads and writes only English fluently, but converses well in feline, canine, and equine.... From john at walton.to Fri Jan 5 18:45:52 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:45:52 +0000 Subject: Dan Radcliffe's hair (Was: HP on ET) In-Reply-To: <934i2s+qsis@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8591 Andrea Bonfanti wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: >> Aargh! Just missed it! >> Anyone get a screen grab? > > Check this link: > > http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?2816 > > to see the picture. I think he looks cute, but the hair really looks > too tidy and what's with the uniform? I suppose they just invented > the scarf and the coat of arms. > > Andrea Argh! His hair just isn't messy enough to be Harry! Someone give that man a pot of hair wax, quickly! And are you sure that's a scarf? It could be a funny wee turtleneck-type thing on the actual robe itself ::cringes:: --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George III...George Bush...George W. Bush... Hurray for hereditary monarchy! ======================================== From moongirlk at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 19:10:42 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:10:42 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <039a01c07718$60db9e60$3089883e@co.uk> Message-ID: <93567i+n0gd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8592 From: Heather Edmonds Date: Fri Jan 5, 2001 7:06am Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... > Scott wrote: > How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. >lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? My family's not big. I just have one older sister. I've already discussed this a bit, but yeah, she was pretty and talented and sociable. I was bright, but clumsy and shy. My grades were good, but not top-of-the-class good. So in my childhood eyes, I was not as good at academics as she was in the areas where she excelled, and people referred to me as 'Kelly's little sister' as much as by my name. I was jealous. > > I am an only child and perhaps that's the real reason I don't > > particulary like or relate to Ron. If that holds true do the other > > Harry/Hermione types come from smaller families, or are perhaps the > > older of siblings? > I'm an H/H shipper and certainly not an only child but I am the eldest of > three, two girls and a boy and frequently longed to be an only child while >growing up. Still do on occasion. I was an only child until I was 5 and did >not respond well to the arrival of my brother. > Ron hit the nail on the head in PS/SS when he told Harry if he did as > well as his brothers it wouldn't be a big deal, but if he did worse it ? would be. >To a certain extent I would go along with this but I have always been the >academic achiever in my family and attended a selective school etc. My >brother who has so far failed do well at school definitely feels that this >is a big deal and somehow my fault. He blames me and my parents for his >inability to get a's or even c's. However I can still remember when I was 16 >my parents praising my brother for getting 40% when yet again I had brought >home an average of 85% and it was ignored. I of course kept telling them >what I'd got because I wanted to be told "Well done" only to be told not to >boast. I now understand that my brothers 40% was far more of an >achievement > than my 85% (he has several specific learning disorders) but even now it >still rankles. Now this I identified with as well. My good grades got the same 'as long as you do your best', as my sister's poor grades, but somehow my efforts into my sister's area of expertise were never important. When I was in a school play it was no big deal, and there are no pictures, whereas there's a whole drawer at home of pictures of my sisters various plays, musicals, recitals, etc., right under all of her trophies and ribbons and such. Admittedly I was an extra with 2 lines whereas my sister was always a lead, and granted, the trophies and such are in a back room with the computer and a bunch of junk, but that didn't stop me from feeling put-out at the time. >Look at poor Percy ( I do sympathise with him ) his siblings treat him >appalingly and nobody stops them. Mrs Weasley is proud of him but she >doesn't stop the others from making his life a misery. Again I speak from >personal experience in an atteempt to make himself feel better my brother >called me 'swot' 'boffin' and would run around the house chanting 'Heather >hasn't got a life' and it hurt especially as my parents didn't stop him. >So here is another question How many of Percy's more unfortunate traits self >importance, bossiness etc stem from his siblings unkind treatment? But why would his siblings treat him any differently than they do each other unless he acted differently toward them? It's a big family, and while they have their problems, it's for the most part loving. I don't think their treatment of Percy is any different than the twins picking on 'Ickle Ronnikins' in PS/SS, or the teddybear/spider incident. >Strangely Bill and Charlie don't suffer in the same way I think it is >possible that they are both hero worshiped by the other Weasleys because >while the implication is that they achieved above average academic results, >their strengths verge towards the heroic, star quidditch player, dragon >breeder/trainer and treasure hunter. Abilities the younger Weasley boys >admire far more than mere cleverness. Indeed i would say teh >wizarding world > as a whole would admire these qualities more. There's nothing to say that Bill and Charlie weren't all in on/ targets of the same kind of teasing. We don't really see them often enough to know if they are, and now that they're living far away, they're probably missed enough to escape a lot of it. I don't think Percy is persecuted. The whole family just likes to tease, and he gives them more opportunity to pick on him by being so officious at such a young age. I don't think it's scarred him. He's got a good job and a girlfriend and everything. Doesn't seem like he was abused. I do think his particular attitudes do make him vulnerable to the Fudge-type position, however. Just my thoughts, kimberly From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 5 19:17:34 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:17:34 -0000 Subject: The Riddle Manor House (filk) Message-ID: <9356ke+selo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8593 The Riddle Manor House (from Chap. 1 of GoF) (To the tune of A Little Bit of Luck, from My Fair Lady) (The Scene: The deserted Riddle estate at Little Hangleton. Enter VOLDEMORT - in a shrunken and hideous form - along with WORMTAIL and NAGINI) V: We require a new base of operation N: A place where we can strengthen and regroup W: And we've now found the ideal location V: It's the Riddle Manor House At my departed Daddy's house We'll knock Harry Potter for a loop! ALL: At the Riddle Hut, at the Riddle Hut We'll take Potter down in one fell swoop! W: When I met Bertha Jorkins in Albania I knew at once just what I had to do N: I'm afraid you left her feelin' a tad insane-ya ALL: For at the Riddle Manor House At the Riddle Manor House We're all gearing up to launch Phase Two! W & N: At the Riddle Hut, at the Riddle Hut We're co-conspirators with You-Know-Who! ALL: We can slither so straight and narrow `Cause at the Riddle Domicile We can get vile! N: This summer they're holding the Quidditch World Cup W: Everyone in Wizardom will be there V: But if we make sure a few Death Eaters show up ALL: Then from the Riddle Manor House >From the Riddle Manor House We'll vicariously enjoy their scare! >From the Riddle Hut, from the Riddle Hut We'll lean back and watch the skulls in air! N: The Triwizards will be held at Hogwarts W: Three champions will strive to win each game V: But when Barty C. gives his inside reports Then from the Riddle Manor House >From the Riddle Manor House We'll make sure we add another name >From the Riddle Hut, from the Riddle Hut We will tamper with that cup of flame! W & N: To win the Triwizard's a triumph! V: But what if the trophy's A portkey? V: I've been feeling a bit under the weather For maybe the last 13 years or so But I'm about to get my act together N & W: At the Riddle Manor House At the Riddle Manor House We'll soon have Voldy lookin' all aglow! Add a little bit, add a little bit Add some bone and blood and watch him grow! (enter Frank Bryce, a Muggle. All eyes turn toward him) N: I think we have an unexpected visit >From a Muggle, a most unwelcome guest V: I'm really not sure that we can permit it ALL: So, at the Riddle Manor House At the Riddle Manor House We must send him to eternal rest With a little hex, with a little hex We'll make sure that he'll not be a pest (Voldy performs the Kedrava curse, causing Bryce's instant death) - CMC From ABoyko at starchoice.com Fri Jan 5 19:49:34 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:49:34 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco. Who is sexy? Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE30@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8594 > -----Original Message----- > From: Amanda Lewanski [SMTP:editor at texas.net] > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 12:06 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco. Who is sexy? > > > > With some trepidation, I toss out Snape's name. I don't think he's sexy > per se, > but I think he has some version of the "Spock effect," if that makes any > sense. > He's got that "irredeemable, but the right woman could make it all right" > feel > to him. As such, he's got a definite appeal, but I wouldn't go so far as > sexy. > > --Amanda > I agree. I think once we know the whole story, about why Dumbledore trusts him so much, then Snape is going to be more appealing. Right now he's not - I can't consider anyone who picks on students so much and so cruelly to be a hottie. But I do agree there is potential. Angela From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 19:50:41 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:50:41 -0000 Subject: The Weasleys/Fanfic/Kid's Poll Message-ID: <9358ih+cofq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8595 Still living in the pre-telephone age... there's so much I'd like to reply to... 1) The Weasleys collectively are wonderful. Just because I can't relate to Ron much doesn't mean that I don't adore the family. They remind me so much of my own upbringing... The more I think about it, I'd have to say that I'm definitely the Percy of the family, Hermione at every school I've ever attended, a weird cross between Lupin, McGonagall, and Snape as a teacher (hey, at least there's no Binns in me!), and someone else entirely when in the midst of a group of friends. If JKR allows Percy to betray his family, I'll be disappointed. Though we real-life Percys may grouse and complain about the irresponsible youngsters, we'd give both life and limb on their behalf. Remember Percy's obvious concern at the end of the second task in GoF? When all is said and done, we big sisters and big brothers love those annoying brats who are always underfoot. :-) 2) I plan to read Kathy and Scott's fanfics the minute my connection is restored at home... congratulations to both of you! Also, I smiled when I read the list of new co-moderators. All of them are so cool that no further information about where they stand on "the issues" is needed... :-P 3) I did a scientific poll of my youngest students (fifth grade, ages 9-11) during bellwork/journal time to see who their favorite HP characters were and which character they related to the most. ("Scientific" because I simply put the questions on the board, handed out index cards, and tallied the results without fanfare or discussing it beforehand or giving my opinion afterward.) Out of 100 students, Harry dominated the first category by nearly 5 to 1. Hermione and (to my horror) the collective Dursleys were tied for a distant second place. Only three students voted for Ron. One went for Dumbledore "'cause he's large and in charge". There were many other "one vote" characters. The second category IMO proves that I had nothing to do with the results of this poll. Nearly half of the students polled (most of whom do like the HP series to some degree) said that they could not personally relate to any of the categories at all. (My theory is that these votes came from the kids who like HP a lot, but feel cultural "distance" from his fictional world.) The other half seemed to divide along gender lines... the boys voted for Harry or Ron (2/3 Harry, 1/3 Ron), and the girls unanimously voted for Hermione. The biggest shock of all? Not a single vote was cast for Draco Malfoy. Indeed, when I mentioned his name, all of the children seemed a bit horrified that he was even under consideration. "Why?" I asked. "Because he hates Harry!" was the reply. Shows just how cooperative children are when reading narratives. Unlike we adults who value the ability to discern shades of gray in everyone, I think that children still see the world in binary terms. My sixth, seventh, and eighth graders--adolescents and young teens--are more like the adults here in that they all like different characters. The only one who I know no one cares for is Voldemort. While my fifth graders love the story and could care less about getting into the characters' heads, the junior high schoolers like to predict outcomes and make all sorts of wild inferences. This was interesting to me, if no one else. Just thought I'd share. --Ebony From ara_kel at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 21:23:20 2001 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 13:23:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: Beta Reader Needed! Message-ID: <20010105212320.10375.qmail@web1503.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8596 I'm currently in the process of writing a "missing scene" fic set in GoF that tells the story of the Yule Ball from Angelina's point of view. (Thank you, Ebony, for turning me into an Angelina fan. Your story is wonderful!) I'm in need of a beta reader who can help, especially with some of the character development problems I'm having. If you're interested, please e-mail me offlist. Sarah ===== "How about a nice *book*?" Ron asked innocently. -- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jan 5 19:59:52 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:59:52 -0000 Subject: Publication errors, changes Message-ID: <93593o+5me3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8597 There seem to be more and more unexplainable discrepancies and changes being detected recently. Some of these include: - pee vs. loo in CoS American & British editions - missing paragraphs about the flying car in the Br. ed of CoS - the clunky wand-order redaction *within* the same printing of GoF - ancestor -> descendent -> ancestor flip-flop My question is for anyone with insight into the publishing biz: Are these changes likely to have been authorized by JKR, or is the publisher most likely acting unilaterally? What are the customary practices in the publishing industry? -Jim Flanagan From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 20:05:35 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:05:35 -0000 Subject: Draco. Who is sexy? In-Reply-To: <008301c07743$236f8840$0c6dd63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <9359ef+tktv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8598 Andrea wrote: > > > If you're in your 40s, like me, it's difficult to find any of the > > > characters sexy, I think. The series is really told from Harry's POV, and he is just moving out of latency in the GoF. and Carole replied: > Not quite 40 yet (39 tomorrow) I'll agree there. Its only the fanfic that ages them up in which they beging to have any sex appeal at all. Well, if you think about it that way, none of them are very appealing. I didn't much care for 14 year old boys when *I* was 14, much less 23. I certainly would have scoffed pre-GoF/finding other adult fans if someone had tried to get me to see obvious innuendos in the idea of a "wand". I'm sure I wouldn't have thought of it on my own! All the timelines and specific dates have helped to corrupt me. According to the CoS-derived clock, I'm somewhere between Percy and the twins in age. If GoF did take place in 1994-1995, my senior year of high school, I'm a month or two older than Angelina Johnson who says "I had my birthday last week", c. Halloween 1994. And the sister next to me in age is exactly 15 days older than Harry theoretically is. So I guess that makes me too young for Sirius, eh? :::frowns::: --Ebony From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Jan 5 20:22:56 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:22:56 -0000 Subject: Draco. Who is sexy? In-Reply-To: <3A55F0DF.2FEED9D5@texas.net> Message-ID: <935af0+oja2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8599 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > With some trepidation, I toss out Snape's name. I don't think he's sexy per se, > but I think he has some version of the "Spock effect," if that makes any sense. > He's got that "irredeemable, but the right woman could make it all right" feel > to him. As such, he's got a definite appeal, but I wouldn't go so far as sexy. Oh yeah. It's that voice...as long as you don't have to listen to what he's actually *saying* . All he needs is the right woman (and about a thousand hours of therapy)... Here's a Truth from the Fanfic world I forgot when Ebony was asking Slytherins are (only) good in bed. Pippin From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 5 20:30:40 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:30:40 -0600 Subject: Percy Weasley References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE29@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <3A562EF0.A4C0E17F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8600 Hi -- ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > Rereading GoF, I have the uneasy feeling that Percy Weasley is not > going to be aligning with the forces of good against Voldemort. From > Ron's comments and their attempts to find out about Mr. Crouch through > Percy, it feels like Percy is going to take the same stance as Mr. > Fudge. Neither are going to believe Voldemort has returned to power > unless Voldy apparates in front of them and spits in their face. Ah, I disagree. I think it will be a big conflict for Percy, but I have no doubt he'll land up on the "right" side. I think Ron sells Percy short --- Hermione calls him on that, remember? He said something about Percy's ambition & how he'd squash any of his family members if they got in the way of his career. Hermione really took him to task for that remark. Sirius had just commented that Hermione had a better measure of Crouch, Sr. than Ron did, and I'd say she has the better measure of Percy as well. Ebony just pointed out that Percy was wildly concerned about Ron at the end of the 2nd Task -- splashing out into the lake to meet him. He was also boastfully proud of Ron at the end of PS/SS -- "That was *my* brother that got past McGonagall's giant chess set." I think he has his priorities straight. > Imagine how the series would be different if Percy had been the > orphan given to the Dursleys, or if Harry had been given to the > Weasleys to raise. Methinks Percy would prefer life in the Dursley > house, with their concern with what is proper. I'm sure Petunia does > not have any cheap frying pans from the dollar store in her kitchen! I don't think Percy would be the same person necessarily if he'd been the orphan given over to the Dursleys. He is who he is at least partially because of his family & environment. I think he's alot like his mum .... I think that's why those 2 seem to have a special bond. The other boys are to varying degrees more like Arthur I think. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 5 20:32:26 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:32:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dan Radcliffe's hair (Was: HP on ET) References: Message-ID: <3A562F5A.327C805E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8601 Hi -- John Walton wrote: > Argh! His hair just isn't messy enough to be Harry! Someone give that > man a pot of hair wax, quickly! Yeah, can't they spike it up a bit with a new haircut? On the plus side, I do think it looks darker than it was in the original interviews when he was first cast. I suspect they have used some hair dye, although I think it could go darker still to be more authentic. But, it's the wrong cut altogether. We *are* a picky lot, aren't we? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 5 20:35:25 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 14:35:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Weasleys/Fanfic/Kid's Poll References: <9358ih+cofq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A56300D.678C52CD@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8602 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > If JKR allows Percy to betray his family, I'll be disappointed. > Though we real-life Percys may grouse and complain about the > irresponsible youngsters, we'd give both life and limb on their > behalf. Remember Percy's obvious concern at the end of the > second task in GoF? When all is said and done, we big sisters > and big brothers love those annoying brats who are always > underfoot. :-) See my post just now on Percy -- I agree. I think Percy will have a huge conflict & may refuse to see the truth for awhile, but in the end, he'll come out on the good guy side. I'm sure of it. :--) > Out of 100 students, Harry dominated the first category by nearly > 5 to 1. Hermione and (to my horror) the collective Dursleys were > tied for a distant second place. Only three students voted for > Ron. One went for Dumbledore "'cause he's large and in > charge". There were many other "one vote" characters. The Dursleys, huh? That's weird! > Shows just how cooperative children are when reading > narratives. Unlike we adults who value the ability to discern > shades of gray in everyone, I think that children still see the world > in binary terms. > > My sixth, seventh, and eighth graders--adolescents and young > teens--are more like the adults here in that they all like different > characters. The only one who I know no one cares for is > Voldemort. While my fifth graders love the story and could care > less about getting into the characters' heads, the junior high > schoolers like to predict outcomes and make all sorts of wild > inferences. > > This was interesting to me, if no one else. Just thought I'd > share. I thought this was all very interesting -- thanks for sharing! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Fri Jan 5 20:45:40 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 15:45:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco. Who is sexy? References: <9359ef+tktv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00de01c07758$78854080$0c6dd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8603 > All the timelines and specific dates have helped to corrupt me. > According to the CoS-derived clock, I'm somewhere between > Percy and the twins in age. If GoF did take place in 1994-1995, > my senior year of high school, I'm a month or two older than > Angelina Johnson who says "I had my birthday last week", c. > Halloween 1994. And the sister next to me in age is exactly 15 > days older than Harry theoretically is. > > So I guess that makes me too young for Sirius, eh? :::frowns::: Yep! He's reserved for us elderly women (and men) carole From lj2d30 at gateway.net Fri Jan 5 21:33:21 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:33:21 -0000 Subject: Is McGonagall scruffy? In-Reply-To: <934vpu+8a8u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <935ej1+uahb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8604 : > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: I was looking at the picture of Harry and Hedwig, and followed some links to this story about the cats on the set. It says that McGonagall's cat form is "scruffy." Is she? Or is this another movie invention? > > --Amanda > > > Hmmmmm.....I imagined Minerva as the antithesis of scruffy.....I hate it when movies do this stuff. > > Susan I ran to my books to see if there was a full description of Minerva in cat form and came across the following: "He turned to smile at the tabby, but it had gone. Instead he was smiling at a rather severe-looking woman who was wearing square glasses exactly the shapeof the markings the cat had had around its eyes. She, to, was wearing a cloak, an emerald one. her black hair ws drawn into a tight bun. She looked distinctly ruffled." P/SS Chapter 1. I don't imagine McGonagall is usually "scruffy-looking" either, but perhaps her fur was a bit scruffy looking after the day on Privet Drive. Just a thought. Trina From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 21:35:30 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:35:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8605 whew guys, i go back to school for 2 days and i get 147 messages...woo hoo....anyways, to the point I am the oldest child, and i live with a younger brother, but i also have 2 step sisters and a half brother whom i see only a month out of the year. Now to the REAK point....I would say i relate to Harry best, the whole everything is expected of you syndrome(he, when you are the only child with real brains ) BUT, i still like Ron a lot, and can relate to some of what he is going through, ya know, typical adolecsents....this is rambling, but i dont think family has a lot to do with it. I mean, My best friend is a fan,. and she is THE most spoiled person i have evr met/heard of....and she hates Draco, and makes fun of him, which is highly amusing since she does a lot of what he does Stephanie >I just thought about this and we've probably discussed it before but >I thought I'd ask anyway. > >How many of you Ron-fans out there are part of a large family, i.e. >lots of brothers and sisters, and also the babies of the family? > >I am an only child and perhaps that's the real reason I don't >particulary like or relate to Ron. If that holds true do the other >Harry/Hermione types come from smaller families, or are perhaps the >older of siblings? > >Also, because my mind seems to have gone blank, is Hermione an only >child? I've always thought she is, but is there any explicit evidence >that proves it? I can't remember for the life of me and I don't feel >like wading through the books. I just thought that it is possible >that her brother(s)/sister(s) could me regular muggles and therefore >we've not heard of them... > >Scott > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 5 21:39:51 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:39:51 -0000 Subject: Dan Radcliffe's hair (Was: HP on ET) In-Reply-To: <3A562F5A.327C805E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <935ev7+fsmv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8606 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: "Yeah, can't they spike it up a bit with a new haircut? On the plus side, I do think it looks darker than it was in the original interviews when he was first cast. I suspect they have used some hair dye, although I think it could go darker still to be more authentic. But, it's the wrong cut altogether. We *are* a picky lot, aren't we?" Well I thought it was ALMOST perfect. I liked the haircut for Harry even if it's not exactly how I pictured him. I don't exactly like the blue glove though. (It doesn't have something to do with handling the bird does it? Even if it does- why use blue?) Here's another question for us nit-pickers. Is that supposed to be his robes or his cloak? BTW, I LOVE that scarf. I want one. Scott Who is off to find someone who can knit... PS: I was shopping recently and I ran across a red and gold striped rugby shirt which I was very tempted to but except I've already got one that's similar (but a different colour). From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 21:55:29 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:55:29 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Snapefans] LONG--Snape thoughts--let's get rolling...] Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8607 The Snape-Lily-James triangle seems to be considered a fait accompli among many fans, but I hope that if we ever do learn why Snape hated James so much, it isn't that he was in love with Lily. That seems predictable in a way JKR seldom is. I actually think Snape's dislike of Harry is largely attributable to the exact reason he gives: Harry is forever breaking rules and getting away with it. Add a prejudice against him to begin with because of a dislike of James, sprinkle in Harry's striking resemblance to said despised dad (both in looks and Quidditch talent), stir in a dose of an already unpleasant personality, and voila: Snide, Snapping, Sneering Snape Potion. As for his dislike of James, I look forward to finding out what JKR has to reveal about it. Maybe it was no more than a schoolboy rivalry: JP was the brightest student in school, Chaser for an opposing house, and (though James is never described as handsome) better looking than Snape. Reasons aplenty for one teenager to hate another. >I don't think Snape had, until the end of book 4, >ever even considered or treated with Harry as his own person; I think >Harry has been a walking mass of conflicting associations for him. I >think that's one reason that his expression was "unreadable" or whatever >the term was. New thoughts were percolating. I like your interpretation, Amanda. I think one of the new thoughts is that he and Harry are on the same side in what is now a fullblown war against V. Their relationship has suddenly become much deeper than professor-and-student-who-dislike-one-another. And Harry has shown himself to be a remarkably brave and able ally, braver even than was evident from his adventures in PS and CoS. We know Harry is re-evaluating Snape along these lines. I think it's going both ways. >>Snape cannot go back to Voldemort because he has been exposed, not >>only by not showing up with the other death eaters, > >Any good conniving nasty person can think up a real good excuse for >that. Like, it was the middle of the tournament and he was in front of >loads of people, and he can serve the Dark Lord better if everyone >doesn't *know,* etc. Sure. The orders are to apparate instantly at the Dark Lord's side, but if he's going to remain a spy right under Dumbledore's nose, he'd have to have some leeway. You can't leave Hogwarts in a hurry (I know, because I've read Hogwarts: A History ) and you can't leave at a time like that at all without AD knowing exactly what you're up to. So he waited until the ruckus was over and then rushed to his master's side. That's what I'd have told V. if I were Snape. Amy I believe there are 3 or 4 Amys on the list now...this is Amy Z. speaking ...otherwise known as the Potion Mistress ...not! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 22:05:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:05:13 -0500 Subject: Sinistra & Moody's dance Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8608 >*** >Suddenly, the music changed and the people dancing around the two >Professors >were startled to see that they had charmed their robes into a semblance of >traditional Greek costume Nearby, Argus Filch stood, broom in hand, staring at the scene, muttering >something unmutterable under his breath... >*** ROFLOL!!!! Neil, stop DOING that. I'm going to bust a gut here. Amy Z. ------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 22:07:49 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 17:07:49 -0500 Subject: Professor Sinistra Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8609 Storm wrote: >Damm Steve - I was loving that thread Wait, we can still save it! I know...everyone *thinks* Sinistra is a witch, but *he* is actually a transgendered, transvestite man who has been carrying on a secret, torrid love affair with Moody for years (Crouch Jr. is hetero, but has to play along to keep up the facade...hence the "ungainly"). All of which means that Tim Curry just might have a role in the movie after all. Watch Medusa.com for Book 6: Harry Potter and the Crisis of Gender Identity Amy Z. P.S. A big, enthusiastic second for the Chronicles of Prydain. If you haven't read them, run, don't walk to your local library and ask for The Book of Three (1st of 5). They're terrific! Again, that so-hard-to-achieve combo of adventure, great characterization, and humor. ------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Jan 5 22:28:23 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:28:23 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dan Radcliffe's hair (Was: HP on ET) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8610 ** Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: ** "Yeah, can't they spike it up a bit with a new haircut? On the plus ** side, I do think it looks darker than it was in the original ** interviews when he was first cast. I suspect they have used some ** hair dye, although I think it could go darker still to be more ** authentic. But, it's the wrong cut altogether. We *are* a picky ** lot, aren't we?" ** So along the lines of being a picky lot... I went through some of the other pictures there, most specifically the trophy case. Does it bother anyone else that the Quidditch Cup isn't a cup? I know that a lot of these kinds of tournaments are called cups, but they usually have a cup-like trophy. In fact (I'd have to double check) the canon even says Dumbledore is holding a cup at the end of PoA. This one is kind of small and lame if you ask me. Also, the Tom Riddle award - Doesn't Ron say he was polishing a big metal shield for hours? There's a small brass shield in the middle of a wooden one but it looks like it would take 10 minutes to clean that one. Not to mention a trophy case is hardly a trophy _room_. Not to mention an adjoining site has pictures labled as Hedwig when the owl in the pictures is clearly a brown owl of some sort. Ok, now I'm being picky. I'll go now... Meredith From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 23:13:24 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:13:24 -0500 Subject: It's a boy, Mrs. Potter Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8611 This just in: the top 10 boys' names on this side of the pond do not include Harry. (Jacob was #1 in the US in 2000.) Methinks it's only a matter of time. Amy Z. who is NEVER naming a kid of hers Harry. but "Mad-Eye" has a nice ring to it. ------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 23:15:07 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:15:07 -0500 Subject: Spock and Snape (was Draco. Who is sexy?) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8612 Oh no! I don't see the Spock-Snape connection at all. Okay, they both would need therapy before being candidates for a relationship, but there the similarity ends. Spock's a tad rigid, but he's kind, unshakeably ethical, plays a mean...whatever that Vulcan instrument he plays is called, and likes cats! Though I always liked McCoy best, myself... <;-) Snape, on the other hand, would probably look terrific in the proverbial leather pants, but meanness is a #1 turnoff in my book. No one who insulted a student the way he does Hermione (in the tooth incident) would get so much as a peck on the cheek from me. Amy Z. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "I'm *not* going to be murdered," Harry said out loud. "That's the spirit, dear," said his mirror sleepily. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 23:17:09 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 18:17:09 -0500 Subject: Harry pic on EmpireOnline Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8613 Sorry, I can't remember the original name of the thread. I agree with whoever said he's a little too filled-out for skinny Harry, but I guess it would be unethical to ask an 11-year-old actor to lose 15 pounds for a part. Robert DeNiro's a grown man, he can do what he wants (to non-RDeN fans, he famously put on something like 40 pounds to film a 5-minute scene for Raging Bull). They could make his hair stand up a bit more though. Anyway, thanks for the pic. I just want to say that I am SO JEALOUS of this kid! I wanna play Harry! I wanna hold Hedwig! Wah! Amy whose hair is untidy, red, AND (when long) bushy--maybe I can play all 3 of our heroes?! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Fri Jan 5 23:16:17 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:16:17 -0000 Subject: The neverending Snape discussion. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <935kk1+pki9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8614 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > The Snape-Lily-James triangle seems to be considered a fait accompli among > many fans, but I hope that if we ever do learn why Snape hated James so > much, it isn't that he was in love with Lily. That seems predictable in a > way JKR seldom is. Count me too in believing that's just too obviously soap-operaish. Of course, if book six turns out to be "Harry Potter and the Troubled Love Lives of the Older Set," we can barbecue those crows together. I think if that were the case, Snape would have mentioned it in already to someone, especially when he gets unhinged and rants at Sirius in the ending scenes of PoA, the chapter where the caps lock key is frequently used. > > As for his dislike of James, I look forward to finding out what JKR has to > reveal about it. Maybe it was no more than a schoolboy rivalry: JP was the > brightest student in school, Chaser for an opposing house, and (though James > is never described as handsome) better looking than Snape. Reasons aplenty > for one teenager to hate another. That could be it too. And plus there's that whole "saved his life thing." Plus there's the Draco/Harry parallel that Dumbledore draws, so I don't think that it necessarily has to be anything deeper than what we already know. Also, I think the theory about Snape having the info on Voldemort's murder plans for the Potters, and being too late to stop it is interesting. > > I like your interpretation, Amanda. I think one of the new thoughts is that > he and Harry are on the same side in what is now a fullblown war against V. > Their relationship has suddenly become much deeper than > professor-and-student-who-dislike-one-another. And Harry has shown himself > to be a remarkably brave and able ally, braver even than was evident from > his adventures in PS and CoS. > > We know Harry is re-evaluating Snape along these lines. I think it's going > both ways. > Yes. I'm going to be seriously annoyed if Rowling doesn't clear up at least some of these Snape mysteries in book five. Come to think of it, isn't he the major character we have the most questions about? And more Snape questions 1)In PS/SS, why doesn't he just tell Dumbledore his suspicions about Quirrel instead of running around after him, doing counterspells, threatening him in the forest, etc.? 2)When Fluffy the Cerberus bites him (gee, Snape and canines just don't mix, do they?) why does he need to get bandages instead of just healing himself? (Minor wounds seem pretty easy to fix.) Or, going for the Marvel No-Prize here, is it because it's an injury from a magical beast? not a question but 3)I thought the scenes with Snape and Lockheart in CoS were amusing. Charmian From john at walton.to Fri Jan 5 23:45:24 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:45:24 +0000 Subject: The Blue Glove (Was: Dan Radcliffe's hair) In-Reply-To: <935ev7+fsmv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8615 Scott wrote: > Well I thought it was ALMOST perfect. I liked the haircut for Harry > even if it's not exactly how I pictured him. I don't exactly like > the blue glove though. (It doesn't have something to do with handling > the bird does it? Even if it does- why use blue?) I guess that, in real life terms, he has to use the glove to handle Ook the owl for safety reasons. My guess is that it's blue so that they can "bluescreen" it out in editing, replacing it with Dan's hand. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Disney gave us Mickey. Florida gave us Dumbo ======================================== From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Jan 5 23:58:30 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 15:58:30 -0800 Subject: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" In-Reply-To: <008301c07743$236f8840$0c6dd63f@oemcomputer> References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE28@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105154526.00e49380@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8616 There seems to be a deficit of sexy females in Harry Potter. There's many more in the Oz books -- Glinda, Ozma, Polychrome, Jellia Jamb, etc. etc. -- for a guy like me to drool over. (Ironic that many Oz scholars insist that Oz was always intended by its creators to be a land of immaculate chastity!) But in the JKR universe there's just Madam Rosmerta, and some "offstage" ladies like Rowena Ravenclaw, Celestina Warbeck, and others whose sex appeal is totally in the assumptions of the reader. Is the lack of sexy teachers at Hogwarts (male or female) part of JKR's stereotyping of school employees? -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Jan 6 00:03:53 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 16:03:53 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] It's a boy, Mrs. Potter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105160027.00c1c880@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8617 At 06:13 PM 1/5/01 -0500, Amy Z wrote: >This just in: the top 10 boys' names on this side of the pond do not >include Harry. (Jacob was #1 in the US in 2000.) > >Methinks it's only a matter of time. > >Amy Z. >who is NEVER naming a kid of hers Harry. >but "Mad-Eye" has a nice ring to it. I've met L. Frank Baum's great-grandaugther, whose name is Dorothy. She said that she hated feeling that she was expected to fill her namesake's shoes (slippers?). So I have no intention of naming my kids Harry, Ron, *or* Hermione. -- Dave From john at walton.to Sat Jan 6 00:07:26 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:07:26 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Spock and Snape (was Draco. Who is sexy?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8618 Amy Z wrote: > Oh no! I don't see the Spock-Snape connection at all. Okay, they both > would need therapy before being candidates for a relationship, but there the > similarity ends. Spock's a tad rigid, but he's kind, unshakeably ethical, > plays a mean...whatever that Vulcan instrument he plays is called, and likes > cats! Though I always liked McCoy best, myself... <;-) > > Snape, on the other hand, would probably look terrific in the proverbial > leather pants, but meanness is a #1 turnoff in my book. No one who insulted > a student the way he does Hermione (in the tooth incident) would get so much > as a peck on the cheek from me. > > Amy Z. I suppose one good Spock/Snape parallel is that they're two of the most-slashed characters in fandom... --John ;D ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George W. Bush -- the President Quayle we never had. ======================================== From foxmoth at qnet.com Sat Jan 6 00:11:32 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:11:32 -0000 Subject: The neverending Snape discussion. In-Reply-To: <935kk1+pki9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <935nrk+2588@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8619 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > > And more Snape questions > > 1)In PS/SS, why doesn't he just tell Dumbledore his suspicions about > Quirrel instead of running around after him, doing counterspells, > threatening him in the forest, etc.? How do we know he didn't? I am working up a fan fic along those lines, but the basic idea is that the whole series of magical obstacles is set up as a trap to lure Voldie in front of the mirror of Erised, with the idea that he will be trapped there as Harry nearly was. That being the case, Dumble doesn't chase Voldie off until it's clear the mirror idea isn't going to work. Snape's warnings are meant to discourage Quirrel/Voldie from going after Harry before he's got his hands on the stone. Dumbledore must have felt the way I do when I have ant traps set up in the kitchen: much as I'd like to, bombing the little buggers with Windex would be counterproductive. > 2)When Fluffy the Cerberus bites him (gee, Snape and canines just > don't mix, do they?) why does he need to get bandages instead of just > healing himself? (Minor wounds seem pretty easy to fix.) Or, going > for the Marvel No-Prize here, is it because it's an injury from a > magical beast? My theory is Snape has his reasons for avoiding Pomfrey. My question is, when did Snape get bitten? Quirrel says it happened while the troll was loose, but Snape doesn't seem to be limping when he runs into the girl's bathroom with the rest of the rescue party. Could it be he used a temporary healing spell, which was starting to wear off when Harry saw him limping and that's why the wounds were open and bloody when Harry finally saw him? Pippin From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 00:11:35 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:11:35 -0000 Subject: that cinderella complex & a little malfoy moment In-Reply-To: <934tfo+6vav@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <935nrn+n6n3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8620 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi.h.tandy.c92 at a... wrote: > (and on a semi-related note, bringing this back to the Character > Assasination (um, I mean discussion) of the Week - am I the only one > who pictures Draco Malfoy as looking exactly the same as I picture > Colin Craven from Secret Garden - and behaving more or less the same > wa, too (at least before Colin gets to experience the magic of the > garden) (and I also suspect that Colin Creevy's name owes more than a > little to Mary Lennox's cousin...)) I was just thinking about HP and TSG; two boys and a girl, each, and the similarities between Dickon/the Sowerbys and Ron/the Weasleys are there for all to see (although I picture Ma Sowerby favoring a Subaru 4WD wagon, not an Anglia...*) An idea for a crossover; the six of them go on Scrapheap Challenge/Junkyard Wars; the TSG team complains about Harry looking for parts on his broomstick. * I also would like to see Little Lord Fauntleroy in a one-striped sweater and cargo pants. Ms. Burnett was really born a century too soon.... From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 00:17:19 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:17:19 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105154526.00e49380@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <935o6f+hs9c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8621 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > There seems to be a deficit of sexy females in Harry Potter. > There's many more in the Oz books -- Glinda, Ozma, Polychrome, > Jellia Jamb, etc. etc. -- for a guy like me to drool over. (Ironic > that many Oz scholars insist that Oz was always intended by > its creators to be a land of immaculate chastity!) You read OZ for the babe factor? ^_~ Yes, but OZ is much more extensively illustrated than Harry Potter. Who was Polychrome? Was Jellia Jamb the womens' revolt leader? I'd recommend Phillip Pullman's series then. Yes, I know the reviews are tedious with the HP comparisons. But I have a friend who refuses to to read HP because it's too popular. I believe judging the book itself and not who wrote it. More on the subject of comparisons...Pullman and Rowling's books have little in common other than they have magical children. HDM is a *very* different series in tone. Pullman, in general, is several orders darker than Rowling. Plus, the comparison is also perhaps a bit unfair because Pullman is a much more experienced, established author than JKR. He's actually written quite a bit of children's and young adult. I'd also recommend the Sally Lockhart series (which actually got an Edgar nomination, I believe), a Victorian non-fantasy mystery series. And the White Mercedes, if you want young adult, as it's definitely *not* for kids, if you want to see how dark Pullman can get. The book I've seen in topic that's actually closest to HP is Diana Wynne Jones's Witch Week, which also has kids, with magical powers, in a boarding school. But in > the JKR universe there's just Madam Rosmerta, and some "offstage" > ladies like Rowena Ravenclaw, Celestina Warbeck, and others > whose sex appeal is totally in the assumptions of the reader. > > Is the lack of sexy teachers at Hogwarts (male or female) part > of JKR's stereotyping of school employees? > > I don't think so, as there are a remarkably few amount of regular, non DADA teachers who get much characterization besides McGonagall and Snape. Heck, Filch gets more pagetime than Sprout or Flitwick. Plus it could be argued that Lockhart was sexy, based on all the cards he received. Charmian From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 00:26:28 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:26:28 -0500 Subject: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8622 >Is the lack of sexy teachers at Hogwarts (male or female) part >of JKR's stereotyping of school employees? You're forgetting Remus "Such a great guy, and needs taking care of too, very appealing to us maternal types" Lupin. But I've noticed the lack of sex appeal too. Or rather, the unpartnered status of most of the teachers. It could be stereotyping or could just reflect JKR's need to focus on the matters at hand. Amy - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "I'm *not* going to be murdered," Harry said out loud. "That's the spirit, dear," said his mirror sleepily. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Jan 6 00:50:17 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 19:50:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] It's a boy, Mrs. Potter References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105160027.00c1c880@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A566BC9.925487B8@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8623 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > I've met L. Frank Baum's great-grandaugther, whose name is Dorothy. > She said that she hated feeling that she was expected to fill her namesake's > shoes (slippers?). So I have no intention of naming my kids Harry, > Ron, *or* Hermione. But it's different when your named after a book character AND the book/author has nothing to do with your family. I'm named Heidi. I'm named after the book. I've never felt a particular need to galavant on Swiss mountiantops with goats (sorry Mike!) (although when I did go to switzerlang, I wanted to go to Zurich more than any other city simply because it was mentioned in the book) From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 01:49:32 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:49:32 -0500 Subject: The Weasleys/Fanfic/Kid's Poll References: <935s4m+76cp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5679AC.DD7FFC87@yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8624 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > The more I think about it, I'd have to say that I'm definitely the > Percy of the family, Hermione at every school I've ever attended, a > weird cross between Lupin, McGonagall, and Snape as a > teacher (hey, at least there's no Binns in me!), and someone > else entirely when in the midst of a group of friends. Snape? I have a hard time believing that... but a little McGonagall isn't a bad thing. Some of those no-nonsense teachers were good for me. I didn't necessarily like it at the time. > If JKR allows Percy to betray his family, I'll be disappointed. > Though we real-life Percys may grouse and complain about the > irresponsible youngsters, we'd give both life and limb on their > behalf. Remember Percy's obvious concern at the end of the > second task in GoF? When all is said and done, we big sisters > and big brothers love those annoying brats who are always > underfoot. :-) I don't believe it either. Percy's stuck on propriety, but I can't imagine a Weasley without his or her moral compass in perfect working order. He's motivated by a desire for order and respectability -- conscious of his family's relative poverty, maybe -- but his heart's in the right place. Where does the "so-and-so is going to turn Dark" stuff get started? We've seen speculation about Percy, Gred and Feorge, and Dumbledore. I suspect it comes from post-Vietnam cynicism and from TV and movies, where it's used as a plot device to add punch and a "twist" to a weak story. How in the world did the Dursleys come up second? Are kids' homes so awful they identify with the life Harry led on Privet Drive? What a commentary. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 02:08:54 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:08:54 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105154526.00e49380@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <935unm+g3tb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8625 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: "Is the lack of sexy teachers at Hogwarts (male or female) part of JKR's stereotyping of school employees?" I thought that the English boarding school has always been depicted in the arts as something of a monastic lifestyle, from Tom Brown's School Days on. Besides, when I was going to school, the teachers didn't look sexy to me. When I went back to a school as an adult, I wondered what the heck happened since I was a kid. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 02:30:40 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:30:40 -0000 Subject: Spock/Snape/sexy characters(was Draco. Who is sexy?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93600g+vuha@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8626 Warning - this ended up really long. Read at your own risk. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > Oh no! I don't see the Spock-Snape connection at all. Okay, they both > would need therapy before being candidates for a relationship, but there the > similarity ends. Spock's a tad rigid, but he's kind, unshakeably ethical, > plays a mean...whatever that Vulcan instrument he plays is called, and likes > cats! Though I always liked McCoy best, myself... <;-) > > Snape, on the other hand, would probably look terrific in the proverbial > leather pants, but meanness is a #1 turnoff in my book. No one who insulted > a student the way he does Hermione (in the tooth incident) would get so much > as a peck on the cheek from me. > I admit to knowing nothing about Spock - but I have to agree that there's nothing sexy about Snape's meanness. There are times I finds rotten characters sexy, but not here. Maybe if I understood him better I could find some charm in him, but at this point he's just ucky. And then there's the greasy hair. I mean there is something to be said for good grooming. Or at least grooming. The only time he comes close to sexy for me is when he makes Lockhart look a fool in CoS, but then he goes on to pick on Neville again, and I remember how sleazy he is. But I can see appeal in a lot of characters. Siruis, of course, can give me the shivers. Mostly when he's all angry and dangerous - he may not be the murderer they thought he was, but he's got some temper on him, and while in real life that's not so good, in fiction, when paired with the kind of loving concern he shows Harry and the knowlege that he has set himself against the 'forces of darkness' or whatever, it's quite sexy. And he's so strong. The endurance of 12 years of sheer torture, and finding the strength to escape in order to protect Harry - that's just hot! I think Lupin is equally as sexy if not more so, but in a totally different way. The werewolf thing gives him an edge, but he's got something else. I imagine him as very attentive. The kind of guy who always looks you in the eye, and lets you know they have his undivided attention. I also imagine he very seldom raises his voice. There's something about having to really listen - makes a conversation very intimate, as well as making a person's statements seem all that much more important. I also like the care-worn person he's become. With all the persecution he's suffered, he could well have taken a poor-me stance, and become a huge bore. Instead he remembers, and regrets, the follies of his youth and his betrayal of Dumbledore's trust. He is thankful for the friends he's had and the people who have given him a chance, and he feels a responsibility toward other people that guides his actions. He still has a bit of that young, witty, daredevil Moony in him, but he's truly matured into a caring, concerned man. That, to me, is one of the sexiest things ever. And the underdog thing on both his and Sirius' parts doesn't hurt. I always love an underdog. I think Arthur Weasley's got a bit of sex appeal too, in that cute, sweet, goofy way of his. He's quite a bit too old for me, but there's something about a man with brains who's not afraid to be completely clueless. He never tries to pretend to know more than he does, and that's both comical and attractive. I think the term I'm looking for is earnestness. I love when he gets all excited asking questions about muggle life. Bill and Charlie both strike me as cutie-pies, and their adventurous young lifestyles make them seem cool and interesting, while their obvious family ties give them a groundedness that a lot of young, adventurous professionals don't have. Physical descriptions of both also make me think I'd be inclined to get a little swoony. I picture Bill as a young, red-haired Indiana Jones down there in Egypt, and Charlie, working with the dragons is this strong, outdoorsy L.L. Bean type in fireman pants and boots (teehee)! Now while I am too old to see the younger characters as sexy really, my inner child is of course head-over-heals for Ron (especially in PoA), and my inner teenager wishes she had the guts to break out of my brain and hang out with Fred and George. Harry, on the other hand, I feel too maternal about. Even my inner kids all want to tuck him in someplace safe and read him a story where nobody is evil and there's a happy ending. Sorry this got so long, I have been thinking about the whole sexiness factor ever since it was brought up, and once I got started, I couldn't stop. Kimberly, who could use a fan about now :) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 6 02:43:32 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 02:43:32 -0000 Subject: Sinistra - that Astronomy witch?? Message-ID: <00a901c0778a$76544400$b93570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8627 Earlier, Lexicon Steve stressed that Professor Sinistra was female because there was a reference to that "Astronomy witch" somewhere. Steve, could you have been thinking of the following, relating to Professor Vector? :- "I heard her talking to Professor Vector, that Arithmancy witch, this morning. They were going on about yesterday's lesson, but Hermione can't've been there, because she was with us in Care of Magical Creatures! [this is Ron discussing Hermione in PoA] If there is a reference to Sinistra being a witch, does anyone have the Chapter/page reference? Was it in GoF (that is way too long to scan for minute details...) Thanks! Neil (who likes sketching in the gaps in those half-sketched minor characters) _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 6 02:48:52 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:48:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP and Philip Pullman Message-ID: <200101060316.f063GTC06460@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8628 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Caius Marcus wrote: > >>As for Pullman, I've been put off on reading him not due to his religious >>stance, but because of the critics - every reviewer >I>'ve >>seen feels compelled to throw in some snide anti-HP remark, implying that >>HP is mere cheez-whiz on white bread compared to the intoxicating medley of >>Amber Spyglass flavors. Yes! As a children's librarian, I hear this kind of thing ALL the time from my colleagues. I have read the first 2 books in Pullman's trilogy, and I will probably get around to reading Amber Spyglass someday, though I honestly don't care what happens next. Honestly, I never found the characters at all appealing, no matter how "complex and cerebral" Pullman's writing may be. I'd take HP any day. On another note, I have noticed that EVERY person I have talked to who was all excited about Pullman's trilogy has been an adult. And I talk to a LOT of kids about books. Why they even market Pullman's books to kids mystifies me. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 6 02:51:16 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:51:16 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogsmeade Message-ID: <200101060318.f063ItC06746@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8629 Rita wrote: >Nitpick: Ron knew of Hogsmeade from his brothers, altho' he doesn't seem >to have mentioned it to Harry. I always wondered why they wouldn't have known of it just from being at Hogwarts for 2 years. Wouldn't they have seen the notices for the older students or heard at least Fred and George talking about it? Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 03:24:03 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 03:24:03 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93634j+h59a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8630 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > >Is the lack of sexy teachers at Hogwarts (male or female) part > >of JKR's stereotyping of school employees? > > You're forgetting Remus "Such a great guy, and needs taking care of too, > very appealing to us maternal types" Lupin. > > But I've noticed the lack of sex appeal too. Or rather, the unpartnered > status of most of the teachers. It could be stereotyping or could just > reflect JKR's need to focus on the matters at hand. Fact is, we don't really know much about most of the teachers. Since we don't know very much about so many of them, we can't really conclude that they're all celibate. Hmmm. The only other thing I recall reading that had an English boarding school was Decline and Fall, and some people almost did get married, so I don't think it was unheard of. Plus there's the fact that the novels are all told from the viewpoint of Harry, and we only know what Harry knows and cares to think about. Harry and co. probably aren't interested in the personal lives of the teachers, although there is a part, I think, where he does briefly wonder what Dumbledore does over the summer (there is no summer school at Hogwarts, I guess). Charmian From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 6 03:01:13 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:01:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Percy Message-ID: <200101060328.f063SvC07838@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8631 Angela said: > Rereading GoF, I have the uneasy feeling that Percy Weasley is not >going to be aligning with the forces of good against Voldemort. From Ron's >comments and their attempts to find out about Mr. Crouch through Percy, it >feels like Percy is going to take the same stance as Mr. Fudge. Neither are >going to believe Voldemort has returned to power unless Voldy apparates in >front of them and spits in their face. On the contrary, I thought there have been a number of things sprinkled throughout the books that indicate Percy would Not take that road (his distress over Ginny in CoS, and worry about Ron during the 2nd Task in GoF come to mind especially). I'm not saying that wouldn't be a temptation for him, mind, or even that he might not be the one to go bad and then turn back to the good side. But I think that we have been given several clues that, despite his ambition, Percy is basically a good guy who cares about his family a lot. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 6 03:53:38 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:53:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Draco. Who is sexy? References: <9359ef+tktv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5696C2.BF05B48C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8632 Ebony wrote: > So I guess that makes me too young for Sirius, eh? :::frowns::: Nah, go for it. I'm 36, my husband is 55. And he's *still* hard to keep up with... --Amanda From john at walton.to Sat Jan 6 04:10:57 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:10:57 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" In-Reply-To: <935unm+g3tb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8633 Jim Ferer wrote: > I thought that the English boarding school has always been depicted in > the arts as something of a monastic lifestyle, from Tom Brown's School > Days on. Besides, when I was going to school, the teachers didn't > look sexy to me. When I went back to a school as an adult, I wondered > what the heck happened since I was a kid. As someone who did go to boarding school in the UK ('94-'00), let me stress (ahem) that we never considered our teachers in any way monastic. Of course, there was the (married) Geography teacher who was asked to leave for boffing the (unmarried) Art mistress (who did look *great* in a swimsuit, btw), the Modern Languages teacher who had sex with one of my friends (over 18, don't worry...), not to mention the extremely crushworthy Mr Cadogan... ::swoon:: And, of course, there were several married couples who both taught at the school. 5 out of 6 Housemasters were married, with their wives taking an active role as Houseparent. Of course, the Hogwarts model is different -- much more like the stereotypical boarding school (not that that's a bad thing): hardly unsurprising since JKR never actually went to boarding school. Just my 4 million euros ($.02). --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: "Come the millennium, month 12 In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader." ======================================== From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Jan 6 04:27:00 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 20:27:00 -0800 Subject: OT: Babes in Oz (was: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal") In-Reply-To: <935o6f+hs9c@eGroups.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105154526.00e49380@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105200656.00dd0220@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8634 At 12:17 AM 1/6/01 +0000, Charmian wrote: >You read OZ for the babe factor? ^_~ >Yes, but OZ is much more extensively illustrated than Harry Potter. >Who was Polychrome? Was Jellia Jamb the womens' revolt leader? If you don't know who Polychrome is, you may not have read far enough into the series where the "Babe factor" becomes important. Polychrome is the "Rainbow's daughter" and spends much of her time dancing around in clothing "of the scanty and clinging description". Jellia Jamb is the mischievous, Moliere-esque maid in the Emerald City palace. You're thinking of Jinjur who was leader of the Army of Revolt (later in the series it's reported that she regularly beats up her husband, so she's too kinky for my liking). There are also more "babes" in the later books, including the Adepts at Sorcery (three fantasies for the price of one), Planetty the extraterrestrial princess, and an "all-grown-up"-looking Ozma. -- Dave From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 6 04:23:09 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:23:09 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Is McGonagall scruffy? References: <935ej1+uahb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A569DAC.49A2C9B0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8635 Trina wrote: > I ran to my books to see if there was a full description of Minerva > in cat form and came across the following: > > "He turned to smile at the tabby, but it had gone. Instead he was > smiling at a rather severe-looking woman who was wearing square > glasses exactly the shapeof the markings the cat had had around its > eyes. She, to, was wearing a cloak, an emerald one. her black hair > ws drawn into a tight bun. She looked distinctly ruffled." But this is not a description of McGonagall in cat form. It's a description of her human form. And "ruffled" in this context means "flustered" or something like it, rather than "physically mussed up." --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 6 04:24:11 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:24:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] [Fwd: Re: [Snapefans] LONG--Snape thoughts--let's get rolling...] References: Message-ID: <3A569DEA.CD329CA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8636 Amy Z wrote: > The Snape-Lily-James triangle seems to be considered a fait accompli among > many fans, but I hope that if we ever do learn why Snape hated James so > much, it isn't that he was in love with Lily. That seems predictable in a > way JKR seldom is. I agree. I think Snape already hated James, for whatever reasons, which made Lily's choice all the more unbearable. --Amanda From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 6 04:30:55 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:30:55 -0000 Subject: Sex Appeal in HP In-Reply-To: <93600g+vuha@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93671v+5vdc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8637 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > > I admit to knowing nothing about Spock - but I have to agree that > there's nothing sexy about Snape's meanness. There are times I finds rotten characters sexy, but not here. > > Siruis, of course, can give me the shivers. Mostly when he's all > angry and dangerous - he may not be the murderer they thought he was, but he's got some temper on him, and while in real life that's not so good I think Lupin is equally as sexy if not more so, but in a totally different way. The werewolf thing gives him an edge, but he's got > something else.> All this reminds me of a line from an LMM novel/story (sorry, can't remember which)-- "He was one of those wicked, fascinating men, who, after the wedding, left off being fascinatin and kept on being wicked." It's the bad boy, James Dean, Rebel without a Cause-kind of thing, I expect... Trina From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 6 04:31:40 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 22:31:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Spock and Snape (was Draco. Who is sexy?) References: Message-ID: <3A569FAC.10DA169E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8638 Amy Z wrote: > Oh no! I don't see the Spock-Snape connection at all. Okay, they both > would need therapy before being candidates for a relationship, but there the > similarity ends. Spock's a tad rigid, but he's kind, unshakeably ethical, > plays a mean...whatever that Vulcan instrument he plays is called, and likes > cats! Though I always liked McCoy best, myself... <;-) No, no, no. The characters are nothing alike, that's not what I meant. But the other actors were fond of describing something they called the Spock effect, the gist of which is whenever females were on the set, they invariably gravitated to Spock, whose character on the surface is the least likely to go for any. But the challenge he presented, to break through the emotionless exterior, coupled with the hints of passion beneath and the desire to be the one who could "heal" Spock's emotional hurts (family rejection, etc.) made him irresistible. Snape, to me, seems to have lots of the same challenges associated. He's got a pretty unapproachable exterior, undeniable passions beneath, and clearly some emotional damage from the past. That, coupled with his assurance of bearing, his loyalty to Dumbledore despite his frequent disagreements, makes his character provocative and appealing. I do think he has a strict ethical code, though; I just think it's internal and all his own, and while he may ignore what the world thinks, I think he never deviates from his own (in which some reprehensible things are justified; I didn't say it was a *good* code). I never said he was sexy. At least not yet. --Amanda From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 04:35:43 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:35:43 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" In-Reply-To: <93634j+h59a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9367av+g7kc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8639 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: It could be stereotyping or could > just > > reflect JKR's need to focus on the matters at hand. > > Fact is, we don't really know much about most of the teachers. > Plus there's the fact that the novels are all told from the viewpoint > of Harry, and we only know what Harry knows and cares to think about. > Harry and co. probably aren't interested in the personal lives of the > teachers, although there is a part, I think, where he does briefly > wonder what Dumbledore does over the summer (there is no summer > school at Hogwarts, I guess). > > Charmian 1. I assume that most of the teachers "commute", over very long distances indeed, by Apparition (there's probably an Official Apparition Point somewhere nearby; probably at Hogsmeade railway station). 2. If there was summer school at Hogwarts, Harry would've signed himself up at the end of PS/SS and every year since! From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 04:37:23 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:37:23 -0000 Subject: OT: Babes in Oz (was: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal") In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105200656.00dd0220@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <9367e3+n8m4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8640 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 12:17 AM 1/6/01 +0000, Charmian wrote: > >You read OZ for the babe factor? ^_~ > >Yes, but OZ is much more extensively illustrated than Harry Potter. > >Who was Polychrome? Was Jellia Jamb the womens' revolt leader? > > If you don't know who Polychrome is, you may not have read far > enough into the series where the "Babe factor" becomes important. > Polychrome is the "Rainbow's daughter" and spends much of her time > dancing around in clothing "of the scanty and clinging description". > Jellia Jamb is the mischievous, Moliere-esque maid in the Emerald City > palace. You're thinking of Jinjur who was leader of the Army of Revolt > (later in the series it's reported that she regularly beats up her husband, > so she's too kinky for my liking). There are also more "babes" in the > later books, including the Adepts at Sorcery (three fantasies for the > price of one), Planetty the extraterrestrial princess, and an > "all-grown-up"-looking Ozma. > And THIS they accused of "stagnating" in innocence!?! From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Jan 6 04:44:54 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:44:54 -0000 Subject: OT: Babes in Oz (was: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal") In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010105200656.00dd0220@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <9367s6+bqee@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8641 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 12:17 AM 1/6/01 +0000, Charmian wrote: > >You read OZ for the babe factor? ^_~ > >Yes, but OZ is much more extensively illustrated than Harry Potter. > >Who was Polychrome? Was Jellia Jamb the womens' revolt leader? > > If you don't know who Polychrome is, you may not have read far > enough into the series where the "Babe factor" becomes important. > Polychrome is the "Rainbow's daughter" and spends much of her time > dancing around in clothing "of the scanty and clinging description". > Jellia Jamb is the mischievous, Moliere-esque maid in the Emerald City > palace. You're thinking of Jinjur who was leader of the Army of Revolt > (later in the series it's reported that she regularly beats up her husband, > so she's too kinky for my liking). There are also more "babes" in the > later books, including the Adepts at Sorcery (three fantasies for the > price of one), Planetty the extraterrestrial princess, and an > "all-grown-up"-looking Ozma. > > > > -- Dave Of course perhaps it's not JKR's goal to create babes for some to drool over...... Having said that, you've got Fleur and all the Veela.....hmmmm, who turn into monsters (classic toothed vagina archetype, I think). Two things: JKR is doing it from HP's POV. So, even if Madame Sinistra (the Dutchwoman) is luscious, it wouldn't be noted, because HP can't see sex appeal in anyone over 18. He's only noticed Cho recently remember. And, it seems reasonable to assume that JKR herself is heterosexual, so there are more boys/men who have sex appeal potential (Bill, Lupin, Sirius) than women. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Jan 6 04:48:39 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:48:39 -0000 Subject: Is McGonagall scruffy?/fur basket In-Reply-To: <3A569DAC.49A2C9B0@texas.net> Message-ID: <936837+1ru6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8642 I'm offended (deeply) that my cats were not asked to audition, and intend to go right out and get them fur lined baskets so their feelings will not be hurt. Susan From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jan 6 04:49:41 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:49:41 -0000 Subject: Housekeeping: Files Cleanup Message-ID: <936855+tkb0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8643 Hello, everyone -- The files area has started getting messy again, so I'd like to schedule a cleanup for Sunday evening (Eastern Standard Time). Our group's general recommendations for posting files can be found here: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/+Guidelines.htm If you've posted any files in the top level of the files area, please move them to appropriate subdirectories, OR delete them, OR move them to our graphics eGroup before Sunday night. On Sunday night I will reorganize any files that the owners have not taken care of. I promise not to delete any files, but I may resize or compress any excessively large files. I hope this doesn't inconvenience anyone, but keeping things organized will help everyone else find your files more easily. Please don't hesitate to e-mail me directly if you have any special requests or questions regarding the file cleanup. -Jim Flanagan (1/5th of the new moderator team) From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 6 04:57:28 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 04:57:28 -0000 Subject: HP on ET, hi-res, the glove and glasses In-Reply-To: <934i2s+qsis@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9368jo+h153@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8644 There is a HUGE high-resolution version of this pic at; http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/1383r_hi-res.jpg It's a massive, HUGE, really big picture and you can really see the Gryffindor badge well (not to mention the patch it's embroidered on!) I also doubt they'll bluescreen that glove out- 1.Parts of Ook/Hedwig look almost the same blue as the glove. 2.Dan/Harry seems pretty well bundled up, in the cloak and scarf. Also, Harry's glasses aren't broken; I always wondered why he didn't get a new pair in Diagon Alley (after all, if there are purebloods with glasses there must be wizard optometrists). This'd explain the unbroken wire frames nicely.... From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 05:26:17 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:26:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] HP Fossil Watch Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8645 Someone said that they got an HP watch by fossil watch for christmas....I can't remember who...Anyways....I had a fit of excitement because i got a fossil for christmas that my mom just randomly picked thinking i could exchange it bc she is anti-gift cirtificates, so I go to the web site to check out the price, and they said it hadn't been released yet!!! So, is it out yet, or did you pre-order, or what happened? Stephanie Who REALLY Wants a Harry Potter Watch! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Jan 6 05:28:41 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 05:28:41 -0000 Subject: Professor Sinistra/ trans-?/Tim Curry.... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <936ae9+rndb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8646 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > Storm wrote: > > >Damm Steve - I was loving that thread > > Wait, we can still save it! I know...everyone *thinks* Sinistra is a witch, > but *he* is actually a transgendered, transvestite man who has been carrying > on a secret, torrid love affair with Moody for years (Crouch Jr. is hetero, > but has to play along to keep up the facade...hence the "ungainly").<<<<<<<<<<< Transgendered--same as transsexual, only done already? Only one bit to challenge here (only one? ), most transvestites fancy girls. (A transvestite told me that.) Otherwise, sounds a lovely theory to me... > All of which means that Tim Curry just might have a role in the movie after all.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Love TC! I could see him as a smarmy, officious type; maybe Fudge? > Watch Medusa.com for Book 6: Harry Potter and the Crisis of Gender Identity<<<<<<<<<<< > > Amy Z. I'd like to see that twist on the HP world... Kelley, who likes an interesting twist... From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 6 05:41:58 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 21:41:58 -0800 Subject: Sinistra - siblings - babes - cats - transsexual Message-ID: <3A56B025.8F557D0@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8647 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > I wonder if the name wasn't chosen simply for the sound. It does > have sort of an astronomical flavor to it... With that association to 'sinister' (and the 'left-hand path'), I keep wondering if she is going to turn evil, or at least be a graduate of Slytherin. I searched electronically for references to Sinistra, and found: 1) In SS, I didn't find her name at all, but I did find references to 'the astronomy tower' and 'the tallest tower'. The one I clipped combined the two phrases: "let alone being up the tallest astronomy tower, which was out-of-bounds except for classes". I had remembered the following as 'on top of the tallest tower' rather than 'through their telescopes", which shows what MY memory is worth: "They had to study the night skies through their telescopes every Wednesday at midnight and learn the names of different stars and the movements of the planets." 2) Only the following in CoS: "Justin was carried up to the hospital wing by Professor Flitwick and Professor Sinistra of the Astronomy department, but nobody seemed to know what to do for Nearly Headless Nick." 3) Nothing in PoA. 4) I don't have an electronic GoF. Heather Edmonds wrote: > However I can still remember when I was 16 my parents > praising my brother for getting 40% when yet again I had brought > home an average of 85% and it was ignored. There are two more reasons for that besides your brother having had to struggle with a learning disability. 1) You were the oldest. Parents expect the Infinite from the first child, and lower their expectations with each child, until along around the fourth child, they expect only what is humanly possible, altho' still unlikely. 2) You were a girl. Lots of people still think that girls should pretend to be stupid, in order to be attractive to boys. Kimberly replied: > I just have one older sister. (snip) My good grades got the > same 'as long as you do your best', as my sister's poor grades, > but somehow my efforts into my sister's area of expertise were > never important. Okay. I can't blame your trouble on being the oldest, or a girl, but I can blame it on the general hostility to book-learning and intelligence which is part of USAmerican culture. Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > Is the lack of sexy teachers at Hogwarts (male or female) part > of JKR's stereotyping of school employees? Why do you believe that Rowena Ravenclaw (who is dead) and Celestina Warbeck (who is singing to an elderly audience: Molly Weasley) are babes, but Professors Vector and Sinistra aren't? Btw, I've been wondering about Celestina Warbeck. That show intro 'The Witches' Hour, with Celestina Warbeck, the Singing Sorceress" sounds like she's one of those old-time singers, of whom I can't remember any females .. I remember men such as Frank Sinatra (hmmmm? related to Sinistra?), Tony Bennett, and Mel Torme. The name 'Celestina' means 'heavenly' and IIRC there was a medieval musical instrument called a celestina, and I suppose the name 'Warbeck' is supposed to sound like 'warbler', the name of several species of songbirds. But the 'beck' at the end sounds harsh to me, and makes me think of war-beak (that underwater iron prong that Carthaginian and Roman warships used to ram their enemies) rather than warble. Susan McGee wrote: > I'm offended (deeply) that my cats were not asked to audition, and > intend to go right out and get them fur lined baskets so their feelings > will not be hurt. I bought myself a nice striped fur tail at Ren Faire, so that people would be able to tell by looking that I am a cat, and silly Tim left it out on the kitchen table over night. In the morning, there was no fur tail at all, only tiny clumps of hair all over the floor of every room. My cats thought it was a fun toy. (I bought another one and did not trust Tim to put it away for me.) This caused me to respond to the statement that the celebrity cats had fur-lined baskets by thinking that they would tear up the fur, thus having non-lined baskets to sleep in. My Elway would rather sleep on (there is no room for in) the box from a take-out pizza than in a basket. Kelley asked: > Transgendered--same as transsexual, only done already? Only one > bit to challenge here (only one? ), most transvestites fancy girls. > (A transvestite told me that.) IIRC 'transgendered' means 'transsexual', both pre-op and post-op. Transsexual is different than transvestite: transsexuals have a gender, but their body is the other gender. Transvestites are a cross between liking to wear costumes (of the other gender) and having multiple personalities (one of their physical gender and at least one of the other gender). (My ex, the one who was in the habit of slapping me around, was a transvestite, but so were other friends who were much nicer people than him. He was Pete and Penny.) Most male transvestites are heterosexual, but IIRC male-to-female transsexuals have the same ratio of likes-boys and likes-girls as natural born women have. As you like interesting twists: there is loud name-calling debate over whether womyn-only events should mean natural-born womyn only, or is that mean bad descrimination.. --- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 05:58:12 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:58:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP on ET Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8648 >to see the picture. I think he looks cute, but the hair really looks >too tidy and what's with the uniform? I suppose they just invented >the scarf and the coat of arms. > >Andrea I think the gloves were maybe bc it was cold outside filming?? And i like the coat of arms...i was terrified his robes would be like the ones on the figure that are only half robes, like bath robes....and the scarf is just house colors bc it is cold...i like it....and i love hedwig.... Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Jan 6 06:21:57 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:21:57 -0000 Subject: John, is this real?--OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <936di5+p6ve@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8649 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > ======================================== > John Walton john at w... > > In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: > "Come the millennium, month 12 > In the home of greatest power, > The village idiot will come forth > To be acclaimed the leader." > ======================================== Someone posted this on my Sports Night list as well, and I'm wondering first, is it a real prophecy? It sounds too much like a joke. (And if it is, I'm sounding pretty gullible right now...) And, second, any doubt as to the translation? Is it pretty generally agreed that this is what he was really trying to say? Don't guess he might have predicted whether or not we'll survive... Kelley From john at walton.to Sat Jan 6 06:28:49 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:28:49 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: John, is this real?--OT In-Reply-To: <936di5+p6ve@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8650 SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com wrote: > Someone posted this on my Sports Night list as well, and I'm > wondering first, is it a real prophecy? It sounds too much like a > joke. (And if it is, I'm sounding pretty gullible right now...) > And, second, any doubt as to the translation? Is it pretty generally > agreed that this is what he was really trying to say? ::shrug:: Dunno. I was sent it by a friend in an email including loads of other W jokes. I'd be interested to see if it were true...I don't see why it shouldn't be, though. Why would anyone make something like that up... > Don't guess he might have predicted whether or not we'll survive... I'm not sure, but I've just got to go answer the door. These four guys on horseback are knocking... --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: "Come the millennium, month 12 In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader." ======================================== From vderark at bccs.org Sat Jan 6 06:32:30 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:32:30 -0000 Subject: Sinistra - that Astronomy witch?? In-Reply-To: <00a901c0778a$76544400$b93570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <936e5u+hclj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8651 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Earlier, Lexicon Steve stressed that Professor Sinistra was female because there was a reference to that "Astronomy witch" somewhere. Steve, could you have been thinking of the following, relating to Professor Vector? :- > > "I heard her talking to Professor Vector, that Arithmancy witch, this morning. They were going on about yesterday's lesson, but Hermione can't've been there, because she was with us in Care of Magical Creatures! > > [this is Ron discussing Hermione in PoA] You're right, that was the reference I was thinking of. But I do have both of them listed as witches. I remember NOT having either of them listed as anything other than professor and then changing first one when I found a reference and then the other not long after that. So I am pretty darn sure that there is something. I don't put things down without facts to back them up, but I suppose I could have messed up. I'll go through my notes and see if I can find what it was that tipped me off. (And I really don't think it was dancing with Moody that led me to assume it). Boy, this is gonna drive me nuts... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From john at walton.to Sat Jan 6 06:37:38 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:37:38 +0000 Subject: My cat looks like Hedwig; Gryffindor "patch" (was: HP on ET, hi-res, the glove and glasses) In-Reply-To: <9368jo+h153@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8652 nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: > There is a HUGE high-resolution version of this pic at; > > http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/1383r_hi-res.jpg Great picture :) > It's a massive, HUGE, really big picture and you can really see the > Gryffindor badge well (not to mention the patch it's embroidered on!) Question -- is it actually a patch, or is it computer-generated and has been put on there by "magic"? Could someone with better screen res than mine check it out? > I also doubt they'll bluescreen that glove out- > 1.Parts of Ook/Hedwig look almost the same blue as the glove. > 2.Dan/Harry seems pretty well bundled up, in the cloak and scarf. I've decided that my cat looks like Hedwig in that picture. I just thought you all should know. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to It ain't over until your brother counts the votes. ======================================== From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 06:56:29 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:56:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Dan Radcliffe's hair (Was: HP on ET) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8653 >Well I thought it was ALMOST perfect. I liked the haircut for Harry >even if it's not exactly how I pictured him. I don't exactly like >the blue glove though. (It doesn't have something to do with handling >the bird does it? Even if it does- why use blue?) I agree about the hair, i do rather like it, but i was thrilled with danie, so what can i say? As for the gloves, i thought maybe it was cold outside, but maybe it is for CGI, adding Hedwig nipping his fingers. As a Star Wars nut too...I know they use blue screen for CGI...so maybe that is....your email made me think of it... >Here's another question for us nit-pickers. Is that supposed to be >his robes or his cloak? Definately his robes....his cloak would have silver fastenings in the front... >BTW, I LOVE that scarf. I want one. > >Scott >Who is off to find someone who can knit... MUA HA HA HA.....I DO knit....I am making myself some "Dobby Socks" now, and the stupid little snitch is impossible....Scarf will be later.... >PS: I was shopping recently and I ran across a red and gold striped >rugby shirt which I was very tempted to but except I've already got >one that's similar (but a different colour). > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foxmoth at qnet.com Sat Jan 6 06:57:17 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 06:57:17 -0000 Subject: OT: Babes in Oz (was: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal") In-Reply-To: <9367s6+bqee@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <936fkd+le99@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8654 - > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook There are also more "babes" in > the > > later books, and an > > "all-grown-up"-looking Ozma. I recall, I think, from distant teendom, a cover illustration for the Emerald City of Oz with Ozma on the Sawhorse. IIRC my friend thought if the book were retitled to match the picture it would be called The Sexpot of Oz. Pippin (who doubts there will ever be a "Harry Potter and the Babes of Hogwarts") From lexac3 at usa.net Sat Jan 6 07:09:27 2001 From: lexac3 at usa.net (Alex Corvus) Date: 6 Jan 2001 00:09:27 MST Subject: Draco Message-ID: <20010106070927.25460.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8655 Snipping and pasting with wild abandon, and wow, this got *long* ... Heidi: >>1. Is Draco sexy?>> Caius >>No>> But he will be when he gets older. Simon: >>Will people just face up to the possibility that he is a scumbag?>> Of course he is. That's what makes him interesting. I always want to squash those perfectly nice, well-adjusted characters, the prats. My heart swelled reading the opening chapters of PoA when I saw what a mouthy little snark Harry was turning into with the Dursleys. I found Ron much more interesting after going through some of the archives here and seeing some of the discussion of the "negative" aspects of his character I hadn't considered previously. It opened up a whole new world-o'-Ron to me that made him infinitely more interesting. (and broke nine months of writer's block, propelling me into *finally* writing some fanfiction for the first time in an age) Flawed characters are always more interesting to me. And I don't just mean superficial, oh-aren't-they-cute flaws. I want some characters who are genuinely challenging. Characters who don't have an easy fix. Characters who make me work to see past the "scumbag" aspect without losing it or taking an apologist view of it. Cass: >>In my own defense I discovered while searching the Draco egroup messages to see if anyone there had come up with a positive characteristic for Draco, that I didn't invent the Draco in leather thing. It appears to have been a fixation for quite some time. >> I'm pretty sure I contributed to that one. The Draco in my head is about 20 years old and has a tendency to wear leather trousers. And flimsy shirts that he unbuttons when he dances. Ohmigod, I just realized that the Draco in my head is probably a lot like QaF-American's Brian (the Stuart-character for those who have seen the British original of QaF). Who I also love, even though ... no, *because* he's a bastard. >>Apparently I am not as weird as I once thought.>> Simon: >>No. It just means that there are lots of other weird people out there! I think a certain author has a lot to answer for, in writting a bad kid who everyone (well lots of people) in fan fic land seems to think will be redeemed and be near perfect in the end.>> Nah, a perfect Draco would be no fun at all. I don't want to see a perfect Draco. I want him to be snarky and pissy and terribly, horribly clever when talking about annoying people - I just don't want to see him be EVIL with a capital E. In short, I want him to be a blond, prettier version of Snape. I have this image in my head that I have to work into a story somewhere of Harry telling Draco: "But *I* know you're a nice person, deep down inside." And Draco being all, "Shove off. Because if that's what you think, you're not looking at *me*, you're looking at some image of me that you've built up in your head. And if I wanted someone who wanted an image, there are plenty of people who will screw me just 'cause I'm pretty." (And obviously, I'm a slash fan ...) My love of Draco is partly metatextual (paratextual?). I have some expectations of what will happen with his character in the future, based largely on my experiences with both Edmund and Eustace in the Narnia books. I think he more closely parallels Eustace than Edmund in some ways, because Edmund's parents managed to turn out some perfectly nice kids, but it's obvious that Eustace's parents were complete asses and helped mold him in their image until he got shoved into different experiences. And then there's always the Snape question that someone else mentioned. Snape is not a nice guy, but he's not evil, and I can't help wondering if he would be encouraging Draco if the kid was simply a bigoted Death Eater-in-training. But the appeal is not just about possible redemption, and I'm not tied to that. If he's not "redeemed" a la Edmund and Eustace, he's not going to lose his appeal for me. Some of my favorite characters in other source material are compelling without being nice, and I don't think "nice" and "compelling" are the same thing. I can't help seeing Draco as a blond, teenaged version of Alex Krycek from The X-Files, and I love me my Ratboy. And I think the fanon Draco has a lot in common with the fanon Krycek - in both cases, there's so little to go on with the characters in canon, that the fans have made him their own, more than the creator's. It can be a lot easier to "own" a character that you've helped "create" than one who's more fully realized, I think. At the same time, both of them are surrounded, in their own particular universes, by more complex, layered characters, so there's this resistance to the idea that they could be the flat, uncomplicated characters they seem to be on the surface. And when the other layers aren't given, there seems to be this drive to fill in the blanks, by taking the slivers of information we do get and extrapolating both backward to see what could have made them that way, then forward again to see what else you can draw out of them based on the hypotheses you made. (That's a big part of the fan experience, in general, I think: filling in the blanks.) Therefore, I look at Draco, and I don't just see some bigoted prick, I start to wonder what made him that way and what other effects - sometimes tragic - those influences have on him. (Oooo, don't get me started on the Attachment Disorder theory ...) And there's enough evidence to allow me, personally, to build a plausible theory of *damage* - and I'm always more attracted to damaged characters, even when the end result is someone who is not conventionally likeable. And, as Cass said, if JKR wanted me to hate him, she never should have pulled that ferret thing. No way am I not going to have some sympathy for a kid who's been subjected to that kind of horrendous treatment, particularly by an authority figure. I cringed during that scene and never managed to get over it for the rest of GoF. It really disturbed me. She couldn't have come up with a better way to put me in his corner. Whomping is a time-honored way of making a character sympathetic. I've heard a theory applied to cop shows and comic books - if you whomp a character enough in the beginning, it doesn't matter what he does after that, he remains sympathetic (and I have to wonder if this is some of the psychology that went into putting Harry with the Dursleys as our first introduction to him). I also have to wonder if there's a corollary - if you whomp a character enough, he regains sympathy, no matter what an ass he's been. I also think Draco is viewed as an archetype by some fans rather than as a unique character, and it's particularly obvious with him, moreso than with other characters who are more fleshed-out. First off, Draco is the Ice Prince (or, in lots and lots of fanfiction - I know in slash, although I haven't read much het - the Ice Princess, and don't get me started on FairyPrincess!Draco. ). His physical description, particularly his coloring, contributes to this, not just his emotional makeup. And the Ice Prince gets melted - usually by his relationship with the peasant girl (or boy. Heh.). He's also the Bad Boy. I ascribe to the theory that some women and men fall for Bad Boys because of the challenge they represent. If a Nice Guy is nice, well, it's in his nature to be nice, and it's nothing particularly special. But if a Bad Boy exposes some inner depths and some feeling, it's this amazingly special phenomenon, because it's not his usual attitude. If you can make the Bad Boy show some softer side, it's this incredible coup. It's somehow more meaningful if Draco exposes any facet that doesn't conform to the schoolyard bully, because that means you're getting under the armor. Alexa (who also does realize her own prejudices, given that her other primary fandom is OZ, and not the Wizard of ... variety. If I can find convicts compelling, I suppose it's not so terribly odd I can be fascinated with Draco.) ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 07:21:02 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:21:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Lily's House? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8656 Woah, nearly 5 messages today, but I will be in lurkdom as I am terrible at Physics and Pre-Calculus and have to take an aptitude test for each next week... Here is My question. We know James was in Gryffindor bc of Quidditch, but do we know where Lily came from for sure? I have read and re-read the books looking, and I don't know where she came from. I know everyone is off on the predictability theory with Lily and Snape, but I had a horrible premonition that Lily would be a slytherin, but one of those non-evil ones we never hear about. Then the snape liking thing would be different, but for me that is a rather far fetched theory. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From john at walton.to Sat Jan 6 07:21:07 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 07:21:07 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Draco In-Reply-To: <20010106070927.25460.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8657 Alex Corvus wrote: > I'm pretty sure I contributed to that one. The Draco in my head is about 20 > years old and has a tendency to wear leather trousers. And flimsy shirts that > he unbuttons when he dances. Ohmigod, I just realized that the Draco > in my head is probably a lot like QaF-American's Brian (the Stuart-character > for those who have seen the British original of QaF). Who I also love, even > though ... no, *because* he's a bastard. Can you send us a URL for pictures? See, I've always seen Draco as Ryan Phillippe (as in Cruel Intentions, specifically), but I could definitely see him as a Stuart-character... --John, who's SO miffed that he's going to be out of the US for QAF-US... ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George III...George Bush...George W. Bush... Hurray for hereditary monarchy! ======================================== From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Jan 6 09:25:50 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:25:50 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: News: Harry casts spell on parents Message-ID: <01C0781F.7CB61180.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8658 I *like* Harriet as a name, besides one of my co-workers named her daughter 'Harris' (aka Harry). Of course she's from the US so who know her ways g,d,r and c. storm (who am I to talk about names?) -----Original Message----- From: Meredith Wilson [SMTP:aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 2:06 AM To: 'HPforGrownups at egroups.com' Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: News: Harry casts spell on parents ** ** Hi -- ** ** John Walton wrote: ** ** > I thought the list might find this interesting. It's from the BBC: ** > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1100000/1100729.stm ** > ** > It might be especially useful for Penny... ::grin:: ** ** Yes ..... but really only if our baby "girl" was hiding ** something from ** us during the ultrasound. Like Kathy, I wouldn't have much luck ** convincing the husband that Hermione is a good name for her. ** I didn't ** even try -- couldn't find a single Hermione lurking anywhere in our ** family tree. Harry, by contrast, is all over the place on ** Bryce's side ** (just Harry -- not Harold, Henry or Harrison). ** ** Thanks though John -- I'll keep it just in case (or for the ** next kid). ** ** Penny Harriet? Ok, no... I just wanted to mention my good friend thought her baby was a girl all through the ultrasounds and it turns out he was a boy. He was, indeed, hiding something. Not to say this is common, but you never know... Mer To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Jan 6 09:56:45 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:56:45 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Is McGonagall scruffy?/fur basket Message-ID: <01C07823.3458D7C0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8659 When you've sorted out your cats' feeling you can come over here and sort out my Samuela. I've just got (another) dog and she is under the couch, on cloimprimine and still not happy!. A fur lined basket might be a start. storm (the on topic bit) - of course McGonagall isn't scruffy, What an idea! As Amanda said earlier, she may get a little emotionally unsettled (and who wouldn't watching Dudley all day) but that would never effect/affect her grooming and deportment. Really. -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [SMTP:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 2:49 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Is McGonagall scruffy?/fur basket I'm offended (deeply) that my cats were not asked to audition, and intend to go right out and get them fur lined baskets so their feelings will not be hurt. Susan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Jan 6 10:31:23 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:31:23 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Draco Message-ID: <01C07828.50F48140.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8660 Alex said: And, as Cass said, if JKR wanted me to hate him, she never should have pulled that ferret thing. No way am I not going to have some sympathy for a kid who's been subjected to that kind of horrendous treatment, particularly by an authority figure. Ok, so maybe I'm weird but I didn't that was so bad. Little shit deserves everything he gets. Ok it was not a nice or responsible thing for Moody/Crouch to have done but - hey - I might have done the same. I'm not saying I don't like Draco (or ferrets), I do (on both accounts). I have huge sympathy for anyone who has been in Malfoy Sr's presence for more than 30 seconds, much less lived with him. But it was good to see Draco get his comeuppance. Alexa (who also does realize her own prejudices, given that her other primary fandom is OZ, and not the Wizard of ... variety. If I can find convicts compelling, I suppose it's not so terribly odd I can be fascinated with Draco.) Convicts? Now that's weird (says fervently, much weirder than the time turner ): smelly, nasty, drunk, starving, illiterate, god forsaken convicts? That's a side of colonial Australian history I've never thought about before storm -----Original Message----- From: Alex Corvus [SMTP:lexac3 at usa.net] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:09 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Draco ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Jan 6 10:33:22 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:33:22 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Lily's House? Message-ID: <01C07828.5546C460.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8661 I think, and some one will correct me if I'm wrong , that in one of the recent chats JKR did we learnt that Lily's surname is Evans and that she was in Gryffindor. storm -----Original Message----- From: Stephanie Becvar [SMTP:StephBecvar at hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:21 PM To: HPforGrownUps at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Lily's House? Woah, nearly 5 messages today, but I will be in lurkdom as I am terrible at Physics and Pre-Calculus and have to take an aptitude test for each next week... Here is My question. We know James was in Gryffindor bc of Quidditch, but do we know where Lily came from for sure? I have read and re-read the books looking, and I don't know where she came from. I know everyone is off on the predictability theory with Lily and Snape, but I had a horrible premonition that Lily would be a slytherin, but one of those non-evil ones we never hear about. Then the snape liking thing would be different, but for me that is a rather far fetched theory. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Jan 6 11:00:51 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:00:51 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Professor Sinistra Message-ID: <01C0782E.1400CF40.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8662 >Damm Steve - I was loving that thread Amy Z said: Wait, we can still save it! Yeah! >I know...everyone *thinks* Sinistra is a witch, but *he* is actually a >transgendered, transvestite man M2F or F2M? >who has been carrying on a secret, torrid love affair with Moody for years (behind the dustbins or discreetly in the house?) > (Crouch Jr. is hetero, but has to play along to keep up the facade...hence the "ungainly"). All of which means that Tim Curry just might have a role in the movie after all. >Watch Medusa.com for Book 6: Harry Potter and the Crisis of Gender Identity I've pre-ordered! storm -----Original Message----- From: Amy Z [SMTP:aiz24 at hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 8:08 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Professor Sinistra ------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 14:04:08 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 14:04:08 -0000 Subject: John, is this real?--OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9378ko+71kd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8663 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > > > Someone posted this on my Sports Night list as well, and I'm > > wondering first, is it a real prophecy? It sounds too much like a > > joke. (And if it is, I'm sounding pretty gullible right now...) > > And, second, any doubt as to the translation? Is it pretty generally > > agreed that this is what he was really trying to say? > > ::shrug:: Dunno. I was sent it by a friend in an email including loads of > other W jokes. I'd be interested to see if it were true...I don't see why it > shouldn't be, though. Why would anyone make something like that up... Actually, no, it's a joke. Charmian From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 14:26:03 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 14:26:03 -0000 Subject: Sinistra - In-Reply-To: <3A56B025.8F557D0@wicca.net> Message-ID: <9379tr+pcnm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8664 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Catlady wrote: > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > I wonder if the name wasn't chosen simply for the sound. It does > > have sort of an astronomical flavor to it... > > With that association to 'sinister' (and the 'left-hand path'), I keep > wondering if she is going to turn evil, or at least be a graduate of > Slytherin. That does sound likely. I mean, why else would JKR give the esteemed professor such an evocative name, unlike the merely obvious and equally obscure Vector? > I searched electronically for references to Sinistra, and found: > > 1) In SS, I didn't find her name at all, but I did find references to > 'the astronomy tower' and 'the tallest tower'. The one I clipped > combined the two phrases: "let alone being up the tallest astronomy > tower, which was out-of-bounds except for classes". I had remembered > the following as 'on top of the tallest tower' rather than 'through > their telescopes", which shows what MY memory is worth: "They had to > study the night skies through their telescopes every Wednesday at > midnight and learn the names of different stars and the movements of the > planets." > > 2) Only the following in CoS: "Justin was carried up to the hospital > wing by Professor Flitwick and Professor Sinistra of the Astronomy > department, but nobody seemed to know what to do for Nearly Headless > Nick." > > 3) Nothing in PoA. > > 4) I don't have an electronic GoF. > > Well, other than the famous Moody scene, Sinistra appears at the opening feast, seated next to McGonagall and talking with her. I think she might have been seated next to Snape too, or someone else. I forget. There's nothing in the books that discusses what Sinistra is like in appearance, ability as a teacher, or personality, as far as I recall. There's nothing in the books that says she isn't a babe, and nothing that doesn't. While we're on the unknown teachers topic, I seem to recall Hermione expressing enthusiasam for Vector's class. Charmian From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 14:57:32 2001 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 09:57:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Lily's House? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8665 >From: Snuffles MacGoo >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: "'HPforGrownups at egroups.com'" >Subject: RE: [HPforGrownUps] Lily's House? >Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:33:22 +1100 > >I think, and some one will correct me if I'm wrong , that in one of the >recent chats JKR did we learnt that Lily's surname is Evans and that she >was in >Gryffindor. > >storm > >-----Original Message----- >From: Stephanie Becvar [SMTP:StephBecvar at hotmail.com] >Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 5:21 PM >To: HPforGrownUps at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Lily's House? > >Woah, nearly 5 messages today, but I will be in lurkdom as I am terrible at >Physics and Pre-Calculus and have to take an aptitude test for each next >week... > >Here is My question. We know James was in Gryffindor bc of Quidditch, but >do we know where Lily came from for sure? I have read and re-read the books >looking, and I don't know where she came from. I know everyone is off on >the predictability theory with Lily and Snape, but I had a horrible >premonition that Lily would be a slytherin, but one of those non-evil ones >we never hear about. Then the snape liking thing would be different, but >for me that is a rather far fetched theory. > >Stephanie No-You're right, it was the AOL chat i belive, we also learned that James' money is mostly inherited. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dhill52084 at aol.com Sat Jan 6 15:58:06 2001 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 10:58:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" Message-ID: <45.a287e8.27889a8e@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8666 Hi group, Who is Pullman and what are the names of the books in his trilogy? I have not read these and as I seem to have a long wait for Rowlings fifth book I thought I might browse through for my own comparison. I feel it might wile away the time while I wait for the really good stuff in the fifth book. Don and Penguinie bibliophile penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dhill52084 at aol.com Sat Jan 6 16:08:53 2001 From: dhill52084 at aol.com (dhill52084 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 11:08:53 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT: Babes in Oz (was: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in se... Message-ID: <17.fdfd367.27889d15@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8667 hi all, You want sex? How about Fleur and her date falling out of the bushes in the scene where Harry is eavesdropping on hagrid's conversation with his girl friend? BTW who was fleur's date? Don and Penguinie curious penguin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 6 17:54:50 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 6 Jan 2001 09:54:50 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" Message-ID: <20010106175450.28361.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8668 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 6 17:58:51 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 6 Jan 2001 09:58:51 -0800 Subject: Administrative duty Message-ID: <20010106175851.28429.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8669 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jan 6 18:10:26 2001 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:10:26 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday Message-ID: <003101c0780b$f370c040$df7f883e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 8670 Happy birthday Carole. I hope you have a lovely day. I will not be rude and ask how old you are as my mother always taught me never to ask anyone you think is older than yourself how old they are its rude, How does that apply when you are eighty I wonder. At 23 its not such a bad theory. Sorry can't write a longer message I have 3 essays of 3000 words each to hand in on Monday and as usually I have procratinated delayed and otherwise avoided doing it and now I must work. Heather -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "...Words strain, crack and sometimes break, under the burden, under the tension, slip, slide, perish, decay with imprecision, will not stay in place, will not stay still. Eliot, 1944. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From particle at urbanet.ch Sat Jan 6 18:10:20 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:10:20 +0100 Subject: Happy Birthday, Carole! References: <20010106175851.28429.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <3A575F8C.77C8E966@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8671 Happy Birthday, Carole! I'd write a Harry Potter version of the birthday song, but I can't think of anything very funny (Harry Birthday to you, perhaps). Perhaps I'll try later :). Anyways, hope you have a great birthday with your friends and family! ~Firebolt Yes, I'm back, and with PoA in Spanish, too. From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 18:31:05 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:31:05 -0000 Subject: OT: Babes in Oz (was: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in se... In-Reply-To: <17.fdfd367.27889d15@aol.com> Message-ID: <937o99+ar7g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8672 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, dhill52084 at a... wrote: > hi all, > You want sex? How about Fleur and her date falling out of the bushes in the > scene where Harry is eavesdropping on hagrid's conversation with his girl > friend? BTW who was fleur's date? > Don and Penguinie curious penguin > > Eh, wasn't that two random other students who don't really show up in the series rather than Fleur and her date? Charmian From lexac3 at usa.net Sat Jan 6 18:44:33 2001 From: lexac3 at usa.net (Alex Corvus) Date: 6 Jan 2001 11:44:33 MST Subject: Draco Message-ID: <20010106184433.28340.qmail@nwcst289.netaddress.usa.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8673 Me: >>Ohmigod, I just realized that the Draco in my head is probably a lot like QaF-American's Brian (the Stuart-character for those who have seen the British original of QaF). Who I also love, even though ... no, *because* he's a bastard.>> Then, John: >>Can you send us a URL for pictures? See, I've always seen Draco as Ryan Phillippe (as in Cruel Intentions, specifically), but I could definitely see him as a Stuart-character...>> Oh dear, you're encouraging me? Try here: http://users.andara.com/~tee/qaf/chars10.html And the other pages on the site with pix from QaF-US. (Warning: There are a few explicit shots, particularly on page 12, which has a screen-capped comparison of Nathan/Justin's first time with Stuart/Brian.) Although it's more the attitude I was thinking of, which can't be completely communicated in still photos. I've also got one foot in the camp that says an adult Draco would look like a blond Jonathan Rhys-Myers, no matter how much I wanted to smack Brian Slade in Velvet Goldmine. Or maybe because I wanted to smack Brian Slade ... I could be convinced otherwise, though. I never thought of Ryan Phillippe, who did the most amazing impression of Malkovich in Cruel Intentions. Draco as Valmont, that I can see, too. storm, re ferrets: >>I'm not saying I don't like Draco (or ferrets), I do (on both accounts). I have huge sympathy for anyone who has been in Malfoy Sr's presence for more than 30 seconds, much less lived with him. But it was good to see Draco get his comeuppance.>> I think it was because an authority figure did it, even if it did end up being Barty Jr. If it had been one of Draco's peers who did that to him, I'm not sure it would have hit me as hard. But I have a huge squick-button for authority figures who misuse their power, especially where children are concerned. That, coupled with the description of ferret-Draco "shivering" and "squealing in pain" - those specific words had a lot to do with triggering my response. I was amused at first, but when the ferret kept bouncing higher and squealing ... Erg, I'm cringing just sitting here thinking about it. >>Convicts? Now that's weird (says fervently, much weirder than the time turner?? ): smelly, nasty, drunk, starving, illiterate, god forsaken convicts? That's a side of colonial Australian history I've never thought about before >> There's another one I have to add to the list in the description: not Wizard-of-Oz, not Buffy-Oz, not Australia-Oz. I hadn't thought about that. HBO-prison-show-OZ. But up until the colonial Australian bit, you pretty much had it down. So yes, much wierder than the time turner. But gorgeously complex characters. I keep doing double-takes at the "Babes in Oz" thread that's going on. Alexa At first, I wanted unconditional surrender. Then I wanted unconditional love. - Chris Keller, OZ ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 19:32:19 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:32:19 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <937rs3+2462@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8674 Stephanie wrote about birth order and favorite characters: "I mean, my best friend is a fan,. and she is THE most spoiled person i have ever met/heard of....and she hates Draco, and makes fun of him, which is highly amusing since she does a lot of what he does ." Maybe it's just me, but I think Draco would clash with other Draco- like people. Two suns just can't revolve in the same sphere, I guess. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 19:45:11 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:45:11 -0000 Subject: The Weasleys/Fanfic/Kid's Poll In-Reply-To: <3A5679AC.DD7FFC87@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <937sk7+kv1d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8675 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Jim Ferer wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > > The more I think about it, I'd have to say that I'm definitely the > > Percy of the family, Hermione at every school I've ever attended, a > > weird cross between Lupin, McGonagall, and Snape as a > > teacher (hey, at least there's no Binns in me!), and someone > > else entirely when in the midst of a group of friends. > > Snape? I have a hard time believing that... My inner Severus Snape rears his ugly head once in a blue moon, usually on the day before an extended vacation or report cards, after a sleepless night and a morning when I overslept and didn't have my coffee, and when my students have a free dress day (usually they're in uniform), there's a dance, and they're on the wild. I turn from Lupin into McGonagall. Then one of the vocal ones (usually a seventh or eighth grader who sits in the back) says, "Dang, Miss Thomas, you're trippin'." That's when I become Snape. I don't lash out at specific kids, but I come from a long line of fiery women with acid tongues... usually I can keep it under control, but I've had moments... Of course, I'm thoroughly embarrassed afterward, and do teacherly things to make it up ("instead of spelling review, let's have a brain bowl"). Kids are forgiving creatures. > Where does the "so-and-so is going to turn Dark" stuff get started? > We've seen speculation about Percy, Gred and Feorge, and Dumbledore. I suspect it comes from post-Vietnam cynicism and from TV and movies, where it's used as a plot device to add punch and a "twist" to a weak story. I agree. I think JKR has made it clear in her interviews that she wants to show what absolute evil is like (that should make the church *happy*--years of being in Campus Crusaders/InterVarsity taught me the Enemy is (supposedly) relativist thinking and we want people to think in absolute terms). I can't see her suddenly allowing a character who is one of the Good Guys turn inexplicably evil. This is not to say that a good character won't have a Judas moment... as a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised. Perhaps Percy will fit the bill, but my money's on a different character. > How in the world did the Dursleys come up second? Are kids' homes so awful they identify with the life Harry led on Privet Drive? What a > commentary. Nah. I just have students with a weird sense of humor. --Ebony From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Jan 6 20:05:30 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:05:30 +1100 Subject: The Blue Glove References: Message-ID: <00d701c0781c$0553a880$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8676 > > Well I thought it was ALMOST perfect. I liked the haircut for Harry > > even if it's not exactly how I pictured him. I don't exactly like > > the blue glove though. (It doesn't have something to do with handling > > the bird does it? Even if it does- why use blue?) > > I guess that, in real life terms, he has to use the glove to handle Ook the > owl for safety reasons. My guess is that it's blue so that they can > "bluescreen" it out in editing, replacing it with Dan's hand. This is a great explanation. Still, it makes me wonder why they didn't screen it out in the photo. Simon. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 20:04:09 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:04:09 -0000 Subject: Draco. Who is sexy? In-Reply-To: <3A5696C2.BF05B48C@texas.net> Message-ID: <937tnp+r6pk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8677 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Ebony wrote: > > > So I guess that makes me too young for Sirius, eh? :::frowns::: > > Nah, go for it. I'm 36, my husband is 55. And he's *still* hard to keep up > with... > > --Amanda I always did get along better with older men... but the guy I'm currently with is ten months *younger* than I. Go figure. I still maintain that Sirius Black is the sexiest character in canon... thanks to Alix, we know that JKR has confirmed that he's "dead sexy"... and the only one I thought of as sexy before encountering other adult fans via the Web. Everything that the other Sirius fans have said contribute to his appeal... he has an aura that's at once dangerous *and* nurturing... dangerous to his enemies (Pettigrew and in a lesser way Snape), nurturing to those he loves (Harry). The prison syndrome might be difficult to deal with in a real man, but as he's a fictional character, we can all fantasize to our heart's content. :) OK, back to reality. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 20:09:29 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:09:29 -0000 Subject: John, is this real?--OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <937u1p+912i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8678 > ======================================== > John Walton john at w... > > In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: > "Come the millennium, month 12 > In the home of greatest power, > The village idiot will come forth > To be acclaimed the leader." > ======================================== Anyone here a fan of the Canadian sci-fi show "First Wave"? (I am-- Cade, Crazy Eddie, and Joshua are eye candy that I never miss. ;) Anyway, since the show is based on Nostradamus' prophecies, perhaps a FW fanatic would be the one to ask. Sorry for the OTness... to get back to the point, do you think Nostradamus predicted the rise of JKR and HP's success? --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 20:11:30 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:11:30 -0000 Subject: OT: Babes in Oz (was: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal") In-Reply-To: <936fkd+le99@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <937u5i+l3ul@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8679 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > Pippin > (who doubts there will ever be a "Harry Potter and the Babes of > Hogwarts") If the number of adult fans continues to increase, I wouldn't be so sure. --Ebony (who doubts there will ever be a "Harry Potter and the Hunks of Hogwarts, but sure wouldn't mind) From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Jan 6 20:19:48 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:19:48 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogsmeade References: <200101060318.f063ItC06746@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <00f901c0781e$053d0150$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8680 I think that sort of thing is just a writing device. Many of these, like re-introducing the characters and the locations at the beginning of each book, really annoy me. I mean, if you have read the other books then you don't need that, and if you haven't then you shouldn't be reading the sequels. Once or twice I've been known to skip the first chapter in some series (not HP). Simon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathleen Kelly MacMillan" To: Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 1:51 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Hogsmeade > Rita wrote: > >Nitpick: Ron knew of Hogsmeade from his brothers, altho' he doesn't seem > >to have mentioned it to Harry. > > I always wondered why they wouldn't have known of it just from being at > Hogwarts for 2 years. Wouldn't they have seen the notices for the older > students or heard at least Fred and George talking about it? > > Kathy > AKA Elanor Gamgee From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Jan 6 20:22:39 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 07:22:39 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" References: Message-ID: <010501c0781e$6ade27f0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8681 > Just my 4 million euros ($.02). not any more :-) From pbnesbit at msn.com Sat Jan 6 20:56:25 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 20:56:25 -0000 Subject: the blue glove Message-ID: <9380pp+3l9s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8682 I don't know--looks kinda grey to me. Who knows, maybe it was cold. Love the scarf though. From john at walton.to Sat Jan 6 21:23:41 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 21:23:41 +0000 Subject: US QAF - Cruel Intentions/HP (was: Re: Draco) In-Reply-To: <20010106184433.28340.qmail@nwcst289.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8683 Alex Corvus wrote: > Me: Ohmigod, I just realized that the Draco in my head is probably a lot like > QaF-American's Brian (the Stuart-character for those who have seen the British > original of QaF). Who I also love, even though ... no, *because* he's a > bastard. > > Then, John: Can you send us a URL for pictures? See, I've always seen Draco as > Ryan Phillippe (as in Cruel Intentions, specifically), but I could definitely > see him as a Stuart-character... > > Oh dear, you're encouraging me? > > Try here: http://users.andara.com/~tee/qaf/chars10.html And the other pages on > the site with pix from QaF-US. (Warning: There are a few explicit shots, > particularly on page 12, which has a screen-capped comparison of > Nathan/Justin's first time with Stuart/Brian.) > > Although it's more the attitude I was thinking of, which can't be completely > communicated in still photos. I've also got one foot in the camp that says an > adult Draco would look like a blond Jonathan Rhys-Myers, no matter how much I > wanted to smack Brian Slade in Velvet Goldmine. Or maybe because I wanted to > smack Brian Slade ... I could be convinced otherwise, though. I never thought > of Ryan Phillippe, who did the most amazing impression of Malkovich in Cruel > Intentions. Draco as Valmont, that I can see, too. I can't really see Draco as Valmont: he's too manipulative for that. Ron, I can, easily. But then I reckon Ron will eventually turn out to be a Tragic character. IMO, Draco would be the Merteuil character (played by Sarah Michelle Vampire Slayer), Ron the Valmont, Hermione as a mix of Cecile and Annette with Harry as Ronald. Oh, the possibilities. When I'm done with the Song of Time, I might write a HP "Les Liaisons Dangereuses"... Oh, and Alex? The actor playing Justin is no way as hot as Charlie Hunnam. :p --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to "Don't Blame Me--I fully perforated my chad" ======================================== From donna.rae at verizon.net Sat Jan 6 22:49:42 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 17:49:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Administrative duty References: <20010106175851.28429.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <00b101c07832$f5bd5da0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8684 Happy Birthday to you Carole. Have a piece of cake for me...I'm on a diet, again. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 12:58 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Administrative duty > Hi, everyone! > > As one of my very first admin. duties, I'd like to remind you that today is Carole's birthday. When you have a free moment, post a Happy Birthday message to her. > > Jeralyn, the Voicelady > current book: "Winter's Heart" by Robert Jordan > Current CD: the Beatles' 1 > _____________________________________________________________ > This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark > of CIDCO Incorporated. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 00:10:15 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 18:10:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Administrative duty References: <20010106175851.28429.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <001e01c0783e$3e991860$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8685 Happy Birthday Carole... May the next year be filled with dreams of Sirius! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady at mymailstation.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 11:58 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Administrative duty Hi, everyone! As one of my very first admin. duties, I'd like to remind you that today is Carole's birthday. When you have a free moment, post a Happy Birthday message to her. Jeralyn, the Voicelady current book: "Winter's Heart" by Robert Jordan Current CD: the Beatles' 1 _____________________________________________________________ This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark of CIDCO Incorporated. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 23:38:08 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:38:08 -0500 Subject: Happy Birthday, Carole! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8686 Many happy returns, and may all your Every Flavor Beans bags include at least one Sardine. :-D Amy Z. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 6 23:52:58 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:52:58 -0500 Subject: Quirrell=Lord V? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8687 Does anyone else find it odd that the moviemakers are going to keep "Quirrell" (Ian Hart) on as Lord V? So says Hart, who's happily anticipating being in all the movies. Amy Z. ------------------------------------------------------------ "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From editor at texas.net Sun Jan 7 00:20:39 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 18:20:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the blue glove References: <9380pp+3l9s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A57B657.E4E96CB7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8688 pbnesbit at msn.com wrote: > I don't know--looks kinda grey to me. Who knows, maybe it was cold. > Love the scarf though. The strength of the talons of any hunting bird is amazing; you must, repeat must, have some sort of arm protection. A glove is the easiest thing, so that it doesn't slip around your arm. The last thing you want to do is make them tighten their hold to hang on. Just sitting there, if that owl got mad, she could probably put her talons right through his arm. Let him wear the glove. --Amanda From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sun Jan 7 00:50:34 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 00:50:34 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts: "We don't drown in sex appeal" In-Reply-To: <010501c0781e$6ade27f0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <938egq+qnpe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8689 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > Just my 4 million euros ($.02). > > not any more :-) Wouln't $.02 also be $150,000 Canadian? From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Jan 7 00:59:51 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 00:59:51 -0000 Subject: John, is this real?--OT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <938f27+61j1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8690 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: Is it a real prophecy? Any doubt as to the translation? Is it pretty generally agreed that this is what he was really trying to say? > John: > ::shrug:: Dunno. I was sent it by a friend in an email including loads of other W jokes. I'd be interested to see if it were true...I don't see why it shouldn't be, though. Why would anyone make something like that up...<<<<<<<< Oh, just as joke, like the rest of it. I've been getting lots of those as well; future bumper stickers, filks, 'news' articles, etc. Very funny stuff. Apparently there are many ways to interpret his quatrains, so who knows, it may be for real... > > Don't guess he might have predicted whether or not we'll survive... > >John: > I'm not sure, but I've just got to go answer the door. These four guys on horseback are knocking... > > --John !LMAO! You are too funny, John... Kelley From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 7 01:34:46 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 01:34:46 -0000 Subject: Topic changes/OT indicators (admin) Message-ID: <002001c0784a$05420660$d83570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8691 I thought I'd test out my moderating gauntlets (a fetching shade of blue) by reminding you all, very sweetly, to make sure your headings are relevant to the content of your messages before hitting send. For example, the thread "Re: Hogwarts: We don't drown in sex appeal" is now about imaginary Euro exchange rates and got there via Philip Pullman. A couple of reminders then.... - If the topic has veered off into something else, put a new heading or something like 'new heading' (was 'something else') - If it has nothing to do with Harry Potter, but otherwise responds to a point of possible interest to the group, please put (OT) after your heading. Okay, that's more than enough netiquette for one post. Gloves off. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SHENmagic at aol.com Sun Jan 7 01:36:16 2001 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 20:36:16 EST Subject: Carole's Birthday card/Administrative duties Message-ID: <73.9d65359.27892210@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8692 Wishing Carole a happy Birthday! Thought you all might like to see Carole's birthday card, starring Sirius. click here: Show Funny Postcard or cut and paste: http://www.funnypostcard.com/cgibin/humor/postcard.pl?id_num=44430164&card=Pic k+up (The card will only stay up for two weeks) Happy, Happy! Aylihael In a message dated 1/6/01 1:26:48 PM, voicelady at mymailstation.com writes: >As one of my very first admin. duties, I'd like to remind you that today >is Carole's birthday. When you have a free moment, post a Happy Birthday >message to her. No: HPFGUIDX 8693 Yes, Amanda, I'm well aware of how strong owl talons are. The blue glove ain't a gaunlet though. I'd feel better if it were. If Ook happened to decide s/he wanted a piece of Daniel's hand, that flimsy glove isn't going to do one bit of good. I know--I've been there! Used to work at a science museum/wildlife park. Parker From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 00:03:14 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 19:03:14 -0500 Subject: Lestranges' crime Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8694 Steve or anyone, On the "Azkaban" page of the HP Lexicon it says, that the Lestranges are incarcerated "for Cruciatus assault on the Longbottoms." I thought this was the case but I also thought it wasn't spelled out who, besides Crouch, was convicted of the attack on the Longbottoms. Can you give me a reference? Is it in the Pensieve? Thanks, Amy Z. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Jan 7 02:29:29 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:29:29 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lestranges' crime Message-ID: <01C078AD.E20C34E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8695 Hey amy Yes it's in the pensive, p 517 in my aust edition. It's spelt out quite clearly what the crime included. There were 4 people convicted, of whom only 3, the le'stranges and Crouch jr are named. (the other is a man) And re-reading this chapter I think that Bagman would have to be a contender for one of the empty spots in Voldemort's circle. And/or the person who passes information on (vs Percy). Storm -----Original Message----- From: Amy Z [SMTP:aiz24 at hotmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:03 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lestranges' crime Steve or anyone, On the "Azkaban" page of the HP Lexicon it says, that the Lestranges are incarcerated "for Cruciatus assault on the Longbottoms." I thought this was the case but I also thought it wasn't spelled out who, besides Crouch, was convicted of the attack on the Longbottoms. Can you give me a reference? Is it in the Pensieve? Thanks, Amy Z. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Jan 7 02:42:31 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:42:31 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Draco as Ferret and OT: Oz QAF (was Draco) Message-ID: <01C078AF.B3F28800.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8696 storm, re ferrets: >>I'm not saying I don't like Draco (or ferrets), I do (on both accounts). I have huge sympathy for anyone who has been in Malfoy Sr's presence for more than 30 seconds, much less lived with him. But it was good to see Draco get his comeuppance.>> Alexa: I think it was because an authority figure did it, even if it did end up being Barty Jr. .... Erg, I'm cringing just sitting here thinking about it. I think it was brilliant! (I'm with Ron on that one) >>Convicts? Now that's weird (says fervently, much weirder than the time turner ): smelly, nasty, drunk, starving, illiterate, god forsaken convicts? That's a side of colonial Australian history I've never thought about before >> Alexa: There's another one I have to add to the list in the description: not Wizard-of-Oz, not Buffy-Oz, not Australia-Oz. I hadn't thought about that. HBO-prison-show-OZ. But up until the colonial Australian bit, you pretty much had it down. So yes, much wierder than the time turner. But gorgeously complex characters. LOL! I was wondering about the 'Oz' thread and trying to work out how it related to Dorothy and toto. Apparently apart from a shared target audience, not at all! Alexa: I keep doing double-takes at the "Babes in Oz" thread that's going on. Which just goes to show the diversity of this HP list And to me ages to work out what QAF was (Qantas flight .....? ). We don't have this on free to air tv (or pay, I think I saw in the new Mardi Gras guide an add saying it would show on pay during Mardi gras one month of queer life, 11 months in a straight world. Storm (have I said anything on topic? Oh yes, ron, ferret, draco ....) From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sun Jan 7 02:56:47 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:56:47 EST Subject: Hedwig Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8697 In a message dated 1/5/2001 9:11:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, nlpnt at yahoo.com writes: << http://harrypotter.warnerbros.com/1383r_hi-res.jpg >> HEDWIG!!!! Great photo! Thanks for sending it through the list. The Owl is beautiful! ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From hedwigthecat at aol.com Sun Jan 7 03:04:01 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 22:04:01 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Blue Glove Message-ID: <52.588dbc6.278936a1@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8698 In a message dated 1/6/2001 12:07:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, simon at basilisk2.cjb.net writes: << > I guess that, in real life terms, he has to use the glove to handle Ook the > owl for safety reasons. My guess is that it's blue so that they can > "bluescreen" it out in editing, replacing it with Dan's hand. This is a great explanation. Still, it makes me wonder why they didn't screen it out in the photo. >> Costly to edit anything out that isn't really needed. And if that is a publicity still, they would need to edit it out. Much more fun to watch people guess what it is:) ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 02:18:08 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:18:08 -0500 Subject: sexy characters(was Draco. Who is sexy?) References: <93600g+vuha@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00f801c07850$a2a960a0$3d42d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8699 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimberly " > > Siruis, of course, can give me the shivers. Mostly when he's all > angry and dangerous - he may not be the murderer they thought he was, > but he's got some temper on him, and while in real life that's not so > good, in fiction, when paired with the kind of loving concern he shows > Harry and the knowlege that he has set himself against the 'forces of > darkness' or whatever, it's quite sexy. And he's so strong. The > endurance of 12 years of sheer torture, and finding the strength to > escape in order to protect Harry - that's just hot! > Exactly...well said! > I think Arthur Weasley's got a bit of sex appeal too, in that cute, > sweet, goofy way of his. He's quite a bit too old for me, but there's > something about a man with brains who's not afraid to be completely > clueless. He never tries to pretend to know more than he does, and > that's both comical and attractive. I think the term I'm looking for > is earnestness. I love when he gets all excited asking questions > about muggle life. My husband is much more like the Arthur Weasley type. He's an Engineer who is always trying to figure out how things work then explain it to me. While I never thought of Arthur as attractive...When related to my husband..definitely! > > Bill and Charlie both strike me as cutie-pies, and their adventurous > young lifestyles make them seem cool and interesting, while their > obvious family ties give them a groundedness that a lot of young, > adventurous professionals don't have. Physical descriptions of both > also make me think I'd be inclined to get a little swoony. I picture > Bill as a young, red-haired Indiana Jones down there in Egypt, and > Charlie, working with the dragons is this strong, outdoorsy L.L. Bean > type in fireman pants and boots (teehee)! Yes, Bill and Charlie are both rather attractive. carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 02:22:05 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:22:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Carole's Birthday card/Administrative duties References: <73.9d65359.27892210@aol.com> Message-ID: <00f901c07850$a3d5f9c0$3d42d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8700 ----- Original Message ----- From: > Wishing Carole a happy Birthday! > Thought you all might like to see Carole's birthday card, starring Sirius. > click here: HREF="http://www.funnypostcard.com/cgi-bin/humor/postcard.pl?id_num=44430164 &c This is hilarious. I laughed and laughed...even my 7yo laughed at this one (I've read him all the books and he knows I'm obsessed with Sirius!) Thanks also for all the birthday greetings! I really appreciate them. I usually neglect my birthday because its so close to Christmas, I'm usually in the anti-celebration mode by this time. But all your greetings made it really seem like a birthday! Thanks all! carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sun Jan 7 02:24:21 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 21:24:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Administrative duty References: <20010106175851.28429.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> <001e01c0783e$3e991860$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <010701c07850$f3318700$3d42d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Rohleder" > Happy Birthday Carole... > > May the next year be filled with dreams of Sirius! As this last year has been, which resulted in ASA! Sigh....Next year will hopefully bring more! Thank you carole From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 03:57:28 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 21:57:28 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the blue glove Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8702 >The strength of the talons of any hunting bird is amazing; you must, >repeat must, have some sort of arm protection. A glove is the easiest >thing, so that it doesn't slip around your arm. The last thing you want >to do is make them tighten their hold to hang on. Just sitting there, if >that owl got mad, she could probably put her talons right through his >arm. Let him wear the glove. > >--Amanda I agree that owls can hurt you, i have held one and they squeeze tightly. BUT, what good do the gloves do if they are only up to his wrist?? I mean, you cant see any other form of protection, which makes me think he has something hidden under the robes.....and i am really sticking with the theory that he was just practicing a scene, no cameras rolling, and his hands were cold....Hey....it could happen! Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 04:11:19 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 22:11:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Mr. Weasley Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8703 I of course set the new HP picture as my wallpaper...and I was showing my mom, whom i had to drag away from reading GoF. She said..."You know, i think they made a mistake"...and since I was ecstatic with Daniel Radcliffe, i said "WHAT?!?!?" She said, "John Cleese should NOT be Nearly Headless Nick". I just sat there thinking....."sure mom" bc i love Python, and thought this would be funny. But then she said something that i agree with, in a weird kind of way. "John Cleese SHOULD be Arthur Weasley" I mean, i thought about it, and while he DOES look kind of old for the part, I REALLY like it, what a shame it is too late. Anyone wanna shoot me down like a deer in the Texas woods? Stephanie Whose best male friend just came back grunting and smelling of dirt and sawdust as he drove here to show me a disgusting display of a deer in the back of his dad's truck. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 7 05:15:15 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 05:15:15 -0000 Subject: cute little faces In-Reply-To: <20010105143441.19656.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <938u13+vctj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8704 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > On Thu, 04 January 2001, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > And then my son said "I don't like your cute little face". > > Kids really *do* say the funniest things! (You must say to him that *he* has a cute little face.) > Actually, I finally figured out that it's from the kid's book Top Cat...in which a new kitten (Stripy Cat) is introduced into the family. I guess it's a metaphor for a new sibling. The Top Cat states that he will fight Stripy Cat and bite him behind the ears, and that he does not like his "cute little face." Eventually, of course they bond and all is well. The startling thing is that it has been at least four months since my son has read that book.... From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 7 05:22:00 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 05:22:00 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <93567i+n0gd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <938udo+1cgq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8705 Oh, how very interesting.... I'm the youngest of two, my big brother is 7 years older than I am and as a child I worshipped him. I also competed with him, which made me work very hard...usually failing. Roger was not a good sport about losing (especially at ping pong, he was actually a little smug that I could beat him at chess). He was really quite wonderful with me, but as adults we don't do too well together. I've noticed that people from large families want to have large families and talk about how siblings have each other. People from small families like mine would like to have more siblings, but see large families as kind of chaotic...I'm reluctant to have more than two children...but we'll see... These are generalizations, and I certainly could be wrong. I like Ron, but I like all three of them. Susan From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 7 04:43:31 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:43:31 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Carole's birthday Message-ID: <200101070526.f075QhC28834@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8706 Happy Birthday Carole! May you have no house-elves smashing puddings in your house! Kathy (Can you guess where I am in my listen-a-thon of the HP books on CD?) From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 7 05:27:59 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 05:27:59 -0000 Subject: Sibling rivarly, shipping and the rest of us... In-Reply-To: <3A55EE98.B65F2243@texas.net> Message-ID: <938uov+t18q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8707 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > zsenya at y... wrote: > > > I am from a middle-sized family - three girls. I am pretty sure of > > one reason why I love the Weasleys so much - all the boys! Jealousy! I > > would have given ANYTHING to have older brothers growing up. > > Damn, I wish I'd known you then...you could have had mine. Cheap. > > > I had this image in my head that all older brothers would be Richie > > Cunninghams > > And that's exactly where the Richie Cunninghams live, in the imagination. > Real older brothers sing "Amazing Grace" loudly in the back seat, windows > down, while you're driving for the first time, make you walk on the other > side of the street on the way home from school so no one will know you're > with them, lie under your bed when you're little and reach up and grab > you, so that you have a lifelong fear of underbed monsters even as a > supposedly rational adult....shall I continue? I love them to death, but > Richie Cunnigham they ain't. > > --Amanda, getting all the mileage she can out of past traumas now that > they feel guilty about it.... I guess lots of girls had that experience with their older brothers. Mine protected me once or twice from the school bullies who after that would not mess with me. He taught me chess, ping pong (and then got mad that I beat him at it), informed his friends that HIS younger sister was better at chess than they were, taught me how to throw baseballs, showed me where he hid the firecrackers from my parents, visited me at camp, bought me books and read to me when I was sick, continued to buy me books when he was in college and I was 12 (including my first science fiction novels and the C.S. Lewis chronicles), taught me how to dribble, discussed birth control with me when he realized I was living with my boyfriend..... For Christmas, I sent him 50 pictures of he and I ask kids..he is holding my hand as we emerge from the haunted house, he is riding shotgun on the stagecoach while I am inside at Freedomland, etc. etc. etc. He and I went rowing and fishing together, and spent many hours swimming....I'm hoping my kids will recreate that model..we'll see...... From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 7 04:51:07 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 23:51:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] I love you guys... Message-ID: <200101070534.f075YNC29658@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8708 This is kind of apropos of nothing, but I just wanted to thank everyone who has read and reviewed my fanfic series. (Especially Penny and Ebony--such nice comments and from H/H shippers too!) I was really nervous about posting my stories, but I have to admit it has been really almost addicting to get this nice little validating messages! Anyway, sorry to be OT, but I just wanted to say how wonderful and supportive this group is! Thanks! Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From john at walton.to Sun Jan 7 07:57:48 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 07:57:48 +0000 Subject: Potter for President--er--Prime Minister? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8709 This from the BBC: <> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1104000/1104822.stm Here's a clipping from the Independent (slightly left-of-center) <> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/Politics/2001-01/fixerfront070101.shtml And from the Sunday Telegraph (distinctly right-wing) <> http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=002549632124328&rtmo=fslaYoYs&atmo=rrrrr rrq&pg=/et/01/1/7/nlab07.html (you may have to fiddle with the above link as it's quite long. Sorry!) Thoughts and comments, folks (and goats ;)? (oops, and Hedwig :) --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to One Person, One Vote (may not apply in certain states) ======================================== From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 08:01:01 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 08:01:01 -0000 Subject: (OT) Re: Spock and Snape (was Draco. Who is sexy?) In-Reply-To: <3A569FAC.10DA169E@texas.net> Message-ID: <9397nt+aqc0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8710 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > No, no, no. The characters are nothing alike, that's not what I meant. But the > other actors were fond of describing something they called the Spock effect, the > gist of which is whenever females were on the set, they invariably gravitated to > Spock, whose character on the surface is the least likely to go for any. But the > challenge he presented, to break through the emotionless exterior, coupled with > the hints of passion beneath and the desire to be the one who could "heal" > Spock's emotional hurts (family rejection, etc.) made him irresistible. > Nothing to do with HP, but I just have to confess that my first and biggest adolescent crush was Spock. Would you believe it?! I used to sit in front of the TV for at least an hour before the show began, just waiting. ??!! Seems really weird now. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 09:11:11 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 09:11:11 -0000 Subject: Potter for President--er--Prime Minister? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <939brf+tush@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8711 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > This from the BBC: > > < his magic on the Labour Party by the time of the general election, according > to the Sunday newspapers. > > The Independent on Sunday reports that the Chancellor Gordon Brown has made > a personal appeal to the millionaire author J K Rowling, asking her to lend > her support to his party's campaign. > > The newspaper says that if the "publicity coup" comes off it could embarrass > William Hague, who named Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire as his book of > the year. > > The Sunday Telegraph, which also carries the story, says "the biggest prize > of all" would be if Rowling allowed the image of Harry Potter to be include > in party posters. > > But, it says, the author is "known to be her own woman" and her publishers > want her to remain neutral.>> > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1104000/1104822.stm > I know the reaction we should have is disgust at this blatant attempt to exploit our favorite author in filthy politics. BUT .... I'm delighted!!! Long live the Social Democrats!! May they flourish and beat the cr.. rubbish out of the Conservatives. I am particularly delighted that it could be JKR, a fantasy writer (!), who can contribute to this victory. Isnt' it wonderful to see even a little bit of power in the hands of somebody nice, for a change? Naama P.S. John, I loved your GWB jokes. I thought at first that you invented them all and was just about to bow down in worship. Could I beg that you send me the joke file? N. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 7 09:47:22 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 09:47:22 -0000 Subject: Falling Out Of Rosebushes (was: Babes in Oz In-Reply-To: <17.fdfd367.27889d15@aol.com> Message-ID: <939dva+h5j4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8712 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, dhill52084 at a... wrote: > hi all, > You want sex? How about Fleur and her date falling out of the > bushes in the scene where Harry is eavesdropping on hagrid's > conversation with his girl friend? BTW who was fleur's date? Fleur's date was Roger Davies, captain of the Ravenclaw Quidditch team. She and he were involved in an intimate conversation such that Harry thought they wouldn't notice if he and Ron sneaked by, but as a recall, not in a rose bush. A number of couples fell out of rose bushes that Snape blasted, of which the only names we were given are Miss Fawcett of Hufflepuff and Mr Stebbins of Ravenclaw. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 7 10:29:11 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 10:29:11 -0000 Subject: Babes of Hogwarts (was: OT: Babes in Oz In-Reply-To: <937u5i+l3ul@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <939gdn+pgce@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8713 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --Ebony (who doubts there will ever be a "Harry Potter and > the Hunks of Hogwarts, but sure wouldn't mind) That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle (fifty years ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 7 10:40:27 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 10:40:27 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Potter for President--er--Prime Minister? References: <939brf+tush@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007101c07896$5549c7a0$b13670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8714 Naama said, in response to John's reports of the UK Labour Party wooing JKR: > I know the reaction we should have is disgust at this blatant attempt to exploit our > favorite author in filthy politics. BUT .... I'm delighted!!! Long live the Social > Democrats!! May they flourish and beat the cr.. rubbish out of the Conservatives. I am > particularly delighted that it could be JKR, a fantasy writer (!), who can contribute to > this victory. Isnt' it wonderful to see even a little bit of power in the hands of somebody > nice, for a change? Hmmmm. I have mixed feeling about this. We often see famous people endorsing political parties (John Cleese, for example, supports the Liberal Democrats and usually appears in their party political broadcasts), but these news reports are portraying JKR as a wealthy and influential "prize" that Labour can wave under the nose of the Tories. It's probably just a journalistic slant though: the fact that William Hague likes GoF is obviously not an indicator of Conservative leanings in the author, as JKR has said publically that she's a socialist. All the same, it's rather insulting to her. I think JKR will keep her distance to be honest, but like Naama, I would cheer inwardly if she decided to support New Labour (note: they are not Social Democrats - in name, at least - the Democrat arm of the old Labour Party ended up merging with the Liberal Party some year ago). I would want any support to be just her personal endorsement of the party. I would not be happy to see images of Harry Potter used in any campaign - that's a step too far. I also think JKR's financial support for one parent families was a personal, wonderful gift that should not be politicised. Something interesting that we could infer from all this is that, if Labour is trying to cash in on Harry Potter and William Hague does have GoF in his 'I am trendy, honest' portfolio, they must recognise that the Harry Potter books are read by VOTERS, i.e. people over 18, even if they think of them as parents reading to their kids. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sun Jan 7 10:52:23 2001 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 10:52:23 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday Carole Message-ID: <939hp7+4qg6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8715 Carole We share the same birthday... I was born 6th January as well! Happy Birthday to us Happy Birthday to us Happy Birthday to all born on 6th Jan. Happy Birtthday to us. Nick. From john at walton.to Sun Jan 7 10:58:27 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 10:58:27 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy Birthday Carole In-Reply-To: <939hp7+4qg6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8716 nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com wrote: > Carole > > We share the same birthday... I was born 6th January as well! > > Happy Birthday to us > Happy Birthday to us > Happy Birthday to all born on 6th Jan. > Happy Birtthday to us. > > > Nick. What an Epiphany! (Sorry, couldn't resist.) --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Don't lose your right to vote -- let Jeb Bush take it away from you! ======================================== From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sun Jan 7 11:15:10 2001 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 11:15:10 -0000 Subject: A Birthday Card for Carole and I. Message-ID: <939j3u+ablv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8717 To get the card... visit: http://www.rainbowplay.co.uk/birthday/birthday.html Nick. From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Jan 7 11:26:49 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 12:26:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lestranges' crime References: <01C078AD.E20C34E0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A585279.B67A800F@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8718 It never actually says that they were the Lestranges, though most people think they are because of the woman's fanaticism speech, and the fact that we know they're in Azkaban. ~Firebolt Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Hey amy > > Yes it's in the pensive, p 517 in my aust edition. It's spelt out quite clearly > what the crime included. There were 4 people convicted, of whom only 3, the > le'stranges and Crouch jr are named. (the other is a man) > > And re-reading this chapter I think that Bagman would have to be a contender > for one of the empty spots in Voldemort's circle. And/or the person who passes > information on (vs Percy). > > Storm > > -----Original Message----- > From: Amy Z [SMTP:aiz24 at hotmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 10:03 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lestranges' crime > > Steve or anyone, > > On the "Azkaban" page of the HP Lexicon it says, that the Lestranges are > incarcerated "for Cruciatus assault on the Longbottoms." I thought this was > the case but I also thought it wasn't spelled out who, besides Crouch, was > convicted of the attack on the Longbottoms. Can you give me a reference? > Is it in the Pensieve? > > Thanks, > Amy Z. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 7 11:27:22 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 03:27:22 -0800 Subject: Happy Birthday Carole and Nick - Owls - Top Cat - The Name Elanor Message-ID: <3A585299.70482186@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8719 Happy Birthday, Carole, belatedly. Aylihael sent Carole a birthday postcard of a Big Black Dog incognito in sunglasses. I giggled. Happy Birthday, Nick, belatedly. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > The strength of the talons of any hunting bird is amazing; > you must, repeat must, have some sort of arm protection. In the books, these wizarding owls perch on their people's arms and shoulders and heads (!) with nothing but regular clothes/hair to protect the people's skin. I suppose if that is shown in the movie, they will have to put DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME as a subtitle. Do you think the perched-on people's skin is protected by charms that the people did, or that the owls use owl magic to avoid hurting people they like? Susan McGee wrote: > Actually, I finally figured out that it's from the kid's book > Top Cat...in which a new kitten (Stripy Cat) is introduced into the > family. I guess it's a metaphor for a new sibling. The Top Cat states > that he will fight Stripy Cat and bite him behind the ears, and that > he does not like his "cute little face." Eventually, of course they > bond and all is well. Cats, of course, have to establish their pecking order. Sometimes the newcomer and the original cat work out their rank and become friends, or tolerate each other, and sometimes it never works out. When I brought a kitten named Pippin home to my cat Cindy (this was over 20 years ago), Cindy went to live with some neighbors. They kept bringing her back (she had an ID necklace) and she kept going back to them until we all gave up. Recently my friend Roy's Siamese Hadjii died of old age, and Hadjii's tabby friend Silver was very lonely. So a 'friend' stuck Roy with her unwanted Siamese named Smokey. Smokey beat up on Silver something awful and then ran away. Silver found his own friend, an orange wild cat that Roy calls Bigfoot because of polydactyly. > People from small families like mine would like to have more siblings, I don't feel any desire to have more siblings. Perhaps when I was still a child in the nuclear family, I might have thought it would be nice to have a sister instead of a brother, but really it would have been nicest to be an only child. However, my friend Lee, who was an only child, claims that the ability to read or think despite background noise such as TV, radio, or spouse talking on the telephone, is limited to people who grew up with siblings. Kathleen Kelly MacMillan (related to Ernie MacMillan?) is writing fanfic under the name Elanor Gamgee. I surely will read it when I have time, but meanwhile I wonder whether JRRT invented the word 'elanor' for with his mind under the influence of the Gaelic name 'Alan' meaning fair/blond. It turns out to be quite different from the name Eleanor (as in Eleanor Roosevelt): the original was Eleanor of Aquitaine and her name was really Alia Anor (meaning 'another Anor' -- she was named after her mother, Anor) (this name can also be found as Alianora). I found a website with a version of the story: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/7545/Eleanor.html The general summary of the version on the web site matches the story that Lee read to us out of her ancient Encyclopedia Brittannica, but Lee's version was much funnier. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From donna.rae at verizon.net Sun Jan 7 13:26:37 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:26:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Potter for President--er--Prime Minister? References: Message-ID: <02d801c078ad$76ca0400$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8720 IMO, I wish everyone would just leave her alone and let her finish the next book. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walton" To: "HPFGU" Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 2:57 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Potter for President--er--Prime Minister? This from the BBC: <> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1104000/1104822.stm Here's a clipping from the Independent (slightly left-of-center) <> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/UK/Politics/2001-01/fixerfront070101.s html And from the Sunday Telegraph (distinctly right-wing) <> http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=002549632124328&rtmo=fslaYoYs&atmo=r rrrr rrq&pg=/et/01/1/7/nlab07.html (you may have to fiddle with the above link as it's quite long. Sorry!) Thoughts and comments, folks (and goats ;)? (oops, and Hedwig :) --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to One Person, One Vote (may not apply in certain states) ======================================== To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 14:53:18 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 09:53:18 -0500 Subject: Lestranges' crime Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8721 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: >Yes it's in the pensive, p 517 in my aust edition. It's spelt out quite >clearly >what the crime included. There were 4 people convicted, of whom only 3, the >le'stranges and Crouch jr are named. (the other is a man) Firebolt wrote: >It never actually says that they were the Lestranges, though most >people >think they are because of the woman's fanaticism speech, and >the fact that >we know they're in Azkaban. Yup. I got a hold of GoF and the US edition doesn't identify any of those 4 by name. The description runs: "There was a thickset man who stared blankly up at Crouch; a thinner and more nervous-looking man, whose eyes were darting around the crowd; a woman with thick, shining dark hair and heavily hooded eyes, who was sitting in the chained chair as though it were a throne; and a boy in his late teens, who looked nothing short of petrified." (594 US, "The Pensieve") By the end of the scene we know the boy is Crouch Jr. but that's all here in the US of A. The vagaries of publishing . . . curiouser and curiouser! Sirius mentions the Lestranges earlier, but not their specific crime (531 US, "Padfoot Returns")--just that they were in Slytherin at the same time as Snape and were now in Azkaban. Amy ------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sun Jan 7 15:14:43 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:14:43 -0000 Subject: happy birthday carole Message-ID: <93a153+b3uh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8722 Belated birthday greetings. Unfortunately I was unable to check the list yesterday and hence my belatedness. I came home from staying with my parents over christmas to find that the shower had f***ed up and sprinkled my house with water, fusing the electicity which in turn took out the central heating. I am now staying with friends while I wait for the landlord (who is upset and blaming it on his tenants although he doesn't have a leg to stand on) to sort out plumbers, builders and electricians. Sort of humerous considering we're on the second reminder for the water bill. Hence I will not be partaking in todays chat as the university computer room shuts at 5. Sorry if this is off topic but I needed to rant at someone. Anyway happy birthday Carole (for yesterday) Dai From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 15:27:15 2001 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 15:27:15 -0000 Subject: Mr. Weasley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93a1sj+ohqq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8723 "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: >"John Cleese SHOULD be Arthur Weasley" Perhaps, but Mr. Weasley is a very nice man and Cleese had a edge to him. I always thought of John Cleese as Vernon Dursley From muggle-reader at angelfire.com Sun Jan 7 16:53:45 2001 From: muggle-reader at angelfire.com (Demelza ) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 16:53:45 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics Message-ID: <93a6up+oo8e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8724 I've seen the Weasley family described as warm, friendly, close-knit, etc. I add to that the quality of humility. Arthur and Molly are humble, down-to-earth folks. They aren't pretentious or snobbish like Lucius Malfoy. With the exception of Percy, the Weasley children share their parent's humility and non-pretentious nature. In fact, Percy seems to distance himself from his siblings and only joins them to share in their accomplishments and not to support them during their failures. For example, Percy was bursting with pride that Ron beat McGonagall's chessmen. But did he try to cheer up Ginny during CoS? No. Fred and George saw Ginny was upset. Their remedy of jumping from behind corners was not helpful but they at least recognized their sister was troubled and they did try (in their twisted way) to cheer her up. In fact, Percy ascribes Ginny's mental state as being upset with him and therefore it was nothing to worry about. In PoA, Percy down-plays Ron's claims of an attack to Prof. McGonagall. Percy either didn't take the time to listen to Ron or he didn't believe Ron (I think it was a combination of both and a large smattering of trying to look like he was in control of the situation). If he were really fair, he would have at least listened to what Ron had to say. Instead, he portrayed to McGonagall that Ron was fibbing and/or had an over-active imagination. In SS/PS, the Twins tell Percy that he must not sit with the other Prefects during Christmas Dinner because Christmas was family time. Why would the Twins go out of their way to tell Percy that? They didn't tell Ron to sit with them during Christmas Dinner; they assumed he would. Obviously, Fred and George feel the distance between Percy and the rest. PERCY V. BILL We haven't seen much of Bill Weasley. We do know that he is "cool". He has a light-hearted streak in him: dueling tables with Charlie, snickering over the Ton-Tongue Toffee incident. We know that he isn't a mindless hanger-on of authority (read: government) figures: he saw through Fudge. Percy, on the other hand, seems utterly humor-less. The only 'frolicking' we see him doing with his siblings was chasing Fred and George around Gryfinndor Tower after Christmas Dinner, but that was only because they has stolen his prefect badge. Percy also is blinded by the status of authority figures: he was receiving orders from Voldemort via Crouch, Sr. and following them. If he did have suspicions about their validity, he certainly didn't inform the Ministry (GoF, Mrs. Weasley says that Percy is being questioned by the Ministry concerning Crouch's illness). PERCY V. CHARLIE The single thing that reveals the difference between the two and their attitudes towards their brother Ron are in the letters they sent to him. In SS./PS, Ron writes to Charlie about Norbert. Charlie's reply is warm and friendly. He inquires how Ron is. He gives his help though the help involves illegal activity. Compare that letter to the Percy reply in GoF. Percy's reply is terse and cold. He basically tells Ron not to bother him anymore. PERCY V. TWINS I've touched upon that briefly already. So let's look at the twins' treatment of Percy. In PoA, they mock Percy's pretentious behavior. They really mimick it more than mock it. They behave towards Percy as they perceive his behavior to be, for example, altering his 'Head Boy' Badge to 'Big Head'. Percy doesn't like their mockery, but at the same time he doesn't notice that they imitate him well. PERCY and MOLLY Molly realizes that the Twins are delivering an accurate portrayal and she admonishes them. Molly knows that Percy is pretentious but defends him because she knows that no one else will. She knows Percy is different and she knows Percy isolates himself from his siblings. Note the bedroom assignments in GoF: Bill and Charlie share the Twin's room, the Twin's bunk with Ron and Harry. Percy keeps his own room because he has to work. So Percy can't share with Bill or Charlie because he has to get up in the morning to go to work???? It's not as though Percy works out of his bedroom. Molly tolerates Percy staying locked up in his room all summer. She tolerates Percy not allowing Ron to use Hermes for a delivery, even though Errol is not fit for long flights. There's a reason why she makes her other children share amongst themselves, but doesn't force Percy to share. She understands that Percy wants to isolate himself and forcing him to "join in on the Weasley fun" would only drive him further away. Percy is the odd-man-out at the Burrow. At this point he can either become more un-Weasley and 'sell out his family' or he can show his true Weasley colors. I'm not anti-Percy, but it's silly think (in my opinion) that Percy is a victim of his siblings. Percy doesn't get it: you treat people the way you want them to treat you. ~Demelza From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 7 17:03:46 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 7 Jan 2001 09:03:46 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy Birthday Nick! Message-ID: <20010107170346.8042.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8725 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Jan 7 18:14:36 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 05:14:36 +1100 Subject: Children's views on Draco References: <01C07828.50F48140.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <00f401c078d5$b26da070$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8726 Alex wrote: > And, as Cass said, if JKR wanted me to hate him, she never should > have pulled that ferret thing. No way am I not going to have some sympathy for > a kid who's been subjected to that kind of horrendous treatment, particularly > by an authority figure. "How do you deal with difficult people like Dudley Dursley or Draco Malfoy? Take Professor Moody's view and turn then into farrits. - Katharine K./Age 14/TX You use the full body bind cruse. - Ben A./Age 10/CA " (from http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/reading/people.htm ) :-) Simon. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 7 18:16:13 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 18:16:13 -0000 Subject: Dai's Unpleasant Adventure (was: happy birthday carole In-Reply-To: <93a153+b3uh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93abpd+2vvn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8727 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > I came home from staying with my parents over christmas to find > that the shower had f***ed up and sprinkled my house with water, > fusing the electicity which in turn took out the central heating. Ow-ow-ouch! Poor Dai! I hope the water didn't damage books and art and the misadventure of electricity and heat didn't start a fire! > I am now staying with friends while I wait for the landlord (who is > upset and blaming it on his tenants although he doesn't have a leg > to stand on) to sort out plumbers, builders and electricians. Considering the proverb that everything that involves building contractors takes twice as long and costs four times as much money as estimated, possibly you should be hunting for a new residence. Good luck. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 7 18:24:27 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 18:24:27 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93a6up+oo8e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ac8r+6em3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8728 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Demelza " wrote: > PERCY and MOLLY > Molly realizes that the Twins are delivering an accurate portrayal > and she admonishes them. Molly knows that Percy is pretentious but > defends him because she knows that no one else will. (snip) There's > a reason why she makes her other children share amongst themselves, > but doesn't force Percy to share. She understands that Percy wants > to isolate himself and forcing him to "join in on the Weasley fun" > would only drive him further away. > That is not how it appears to me. It seems to me that Molly approves highly of Percy. "How come Percy got new robes?" "Because he's a PREFECT," Molly said fondly. (Probably getting him an owl as reward for becoming a prefect was at least partly her idea.) She's proud of his twelve OWLs (and yells her head off at the twins for not getting enough OWLs), being a prefect, and being Head Boy, and and getting a job at the Ministry is what she wants all her sons to do. It seems to me that she favors him and is attempting to spoil him. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 18:56:41 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 18:56:41 -0000 Subject: (OT) Hunks of Hogwarts (was: Babes of Hogwarts) In-Reply-To: <939gdn+pgce@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ae59+532s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8729 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > > --Ebony (who doubts there will ever be a "Harry Potter and > > the Hunks of Hogwarts, but sure wouldn't mind) > > That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is > he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger > Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for > April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in > August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle (fifty years > ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? Hi Rita and all-- I'm back in the computer lab, and now people are staring at me b/c I'm sputtering, trying to hold back my giggles. :::the most hilarious of the above mental images is by far Hagrid in paisley swim trunks with a fully decorated and lit Christmas tree under each hairy arm::: Men have done stuff like this for centuries... why not? --Ebony (now grinning over plans to have her female characters cackle over the swimsuit edition of *Quidditch Illustrated*--but then again, you'd have male and female models, and perhaps even non-human magical creatures play Quidditch, so I guess everyone would be happy.) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 18:57:54 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 13:57:54 -0500 Subject: Mr. Weasley Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8730 "Stephanie Becvar" StephBecvar at h... wrote: >"John Cleese SHOULD be Arthur Weasley" eggplant88 wrote: >Perhaps, but Mr. Weasley is a very nice man and Cleese had a edge to him. I >always thought of John Cleese as Vernon Dursley If we get to pick a Python for Uncle Vernon, how about Michael Palin? He is normally very cuddly (not with that Cleese edge) but he can do that turning-purple-with-apoplectic-rage thing very well. The retreat to the Hut-on-the-Rock, in fact, has a Palinesque, Pythonesque quality to it--MP as VD keeps coming up with new schemes, getting a little purpler and a little shriller each time, til he has his family holed up in a hut in a raging storm and he's got steam coming out of his ears. Amy ------------------------------------------------------------ "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:01:39 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:01:39 -0000 Subject: Children's views on Draco In-Reply-To: <00f401c078d5$b26da070$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93aeej+vd4q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8731 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > "How do you deal with difficult people like Dudley Dursley or Draco Malfoy? > > Take Professor Moody's view and turn then into farrits. > - Katharine K./Age 14/TX > > You use the full body bind cruse. > - Ben A./Age 10/CA " > > (from http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/reading/people.htm ) That sounds accurate. From teaching in Florida and Michigan, I know that kids hate schoolyard bullies. Draco in their eyes is an archetype of the mean kids in their own lives, and they don't have the luxury of adulthood distance from those types of situations. Of course, I can only speak for the kids I've come in contact with. (I've learned to add this disclaimer. ;)) --Ebony From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 7 18:23:01 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 13:23:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Babes of Hogwarts (was: OT: Babes in Oz Message-ID: <200101071912.f07JCxC14383@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8732 >That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is >he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger >Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for >April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in >August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle (fifty years >ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? A-HEM! Just where is Ron is this lineup? Kathy From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:45:20 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:45:20 -0000 Subject: Percy n' the "Dark side" Message-ID: <93ah0g+n582@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8733 Hmmm. I personally doubt that Percy will fall in that manner. He shows no signs of adopting the ideology of Voldster (you know, anti- Muggleness, opposition to the wizard government and Dumbledore). Based on the way he acts towards Hermione and other Muggles, his not being against the established order (unlike Malfoy and the other DE's, who seem also in it so they can gain more power under a new regime), I don't think we'll see him becoming a cheerleader for Voldemort anytime soon. (Now what would the outfits for that look like?) If anything, he shows signs of becoming like Fudge and possibly like Crouch Sr. Crouch Sr., whatever his other flaws were, was not a Death Eater. Not all bad or unpleasant characters are on Voldemort's side. Voldemort, after all, is only an exceptionally powerful evil wizard, not Evil Incarnate. That's why as a readers we tend to think more of the characters who call Voldemort by his name, rather than giving him god- like status by using circumlocutions. Fudge is obstructionist and willfully blind, but I doubt he was at the DE meeting. As Dumbledore says, signficantly, (paraphrasing here) that as long as Fudge is against what Voldemort stands for, they're still on the same side. He doesn't operate on the idea that "all who are not with me are against me." Charmian From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Sun Jan 7 19:49:32 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:49:32 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Babes of Hogwarts (was: OT: Babes in Oz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8734 In a message dated 1/7/01 2:13:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, kathleen at carr.org writes: << >That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is >he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger >Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for >April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in >August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle (fifty years >ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? A-HEM! Just where is Ron is this lineup? Kathy >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I say we take Roger out for February and put in Ron clad with only a big red heart to conver his um................. complete with white wings of a cupid. Tessie From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:49:56 2001 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:49:56 -0000 Subject: Mr. Weasley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93ah94+dobh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8735 "Amy Z" wrote: >If we get to pick a Python for Uncle Vernon,how about Michael Palin? Yes that could work, or he could play Mr. Weasley, although Ron's dad won't show up till the second HP movie. Not if they follow the books anyway. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:51:50 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 19:51:50 -0000 Subject: Galleons to Pounds exchange rate Message-ID: <93ahcm+kqcb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8736 Still in the computer lab... Heidi and I have been chatting about some numbers and figures in relation to TIP. I'm interested in knowing what your thoughts are on the Galleons to pounds exchange rate. I used to be a finance major, but didn't follow the program long enough to learn whether or not the pound was based upon a gold standard. Can anyone shed some insight into this? Also, we have *no* idea what salaries are like in canon. Any speculation? Hope to see some of you in chat in a few minutes! --Ebony From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Sun Jan 7 19:53:51 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 14:53:51 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Babes of Hogwarts (was: OT: Babes in Oz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8737 In a message dated 1/7/01 2:50:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com writes: << << >That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is >he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger >Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for >April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in >August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle (fifty years >ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? A-HEM! Just where is Ron is this lineup? Kathy >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I say we take Roger out for February and put in Ron clad with only a big red heart to conver his um................. complete with white wings of a cupid. Tessie >> See I got so excited I couldn't even spell cover....... From homanm at umich.edu Sun Jan 7 20:15:03 2001 From: homanm at umich.edu (Meg ) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 20:15:03 -0000 Subject: Lestranges' crime In-Reply-To: <3A585279.B67A800F@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <93aio7+qocs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8738 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Firebolt wrote: > It never actually says that they were the Lestranges, though most people think they > are because of the woman's fanaticism speech, and the fact that we know they're in > Azkaban. > > ~Firebolt > Delurking: At the end of GoF, in the scene in the graveyard, Voldemort says "[The Lestranges] are entombed in Azkaban. They were faithful. They went to Azkaban rather than renounce me." At the time, Voldemort was walking around the circle venting his spleen at various death eaters who had denied him when he lost his powers. I got the impression that, when Voldemort said that the Lestranges didn't renounce him, he was trying to shame the Death Eaters who had pretended that they were under the Imperius Curse during Voldemort's reign by casting them up the the Lestranges, who had tried to find him even after all of his powers were gone. The Lestranges didn't pretend that they weren't on Voldemort's side. They were proud of their faithfulness to Voldemort and weren't afraid of the consequences, so they tried to find him even after all of his powers were gone and went to Azkaban rather than renounce him. From this scene, I got the impression that the Lestranges were the couple that Harry saw in the Pensive with Crouch, Jr. Meg From editor at texas.net Sun Jan 7 20:18:13 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:18:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the blue glove References: <938i2b+qfu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A58CF04.269BE6A1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8739 Parker Brown Nesbit wrote: > Yes, Amanda, I'm well aware of how strong owl talons are. The blue > glove ain't a gaunlet though. I'd feel better if it were. If Ook > happened to decide s/he wanted a piece of Daniel's hand, that flimsy > glove isn't going to do one bit of good. I know--I've been there! > Used to work at a science museum/wildlife park. What I didn't say very well, was that the glove part might not reflect the composition of what it's attached to--it's probably attached to serious arm protection. A glove, fitting the hand, will keep an around-the-arm protection in place much better than just lacing it real tight. I think the arm protection must have been heavier than the glove we can see, and that (who? John?) was right and it'll be zapped out by the Gods of Computer Imaging. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sun Jan 7 20:21:15 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:21:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Deer hunting References: Message-ID: <3A58CFBB.2F68FBE7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8740 Stephanie Becvar wrote: > Stephanie > Whose best male friend just came back grunting and smelling of dirt and > sawdust as he drove here to show me a disgusting display of a deer in the > back of his dad's truck. Stephanie, m'dear, you are hereby invited to our house for an absolutely wonderful Polish venison dish, which will change your opinion of deer hunting forever...at least by non-grunting participants. --Amanda From vderark at bccs.org Sun Jan 7 21:08:07 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 21:08:07 -0000 Subject: Lestranges' crime In-Reply-To: <93aio7+qocs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93alrn+l1k1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8741 Hey, gang: Clipped from a few posts: > > It never actually says that they were the Lestranges, though most > people think they > > are because of the woman's fanaticism speech, and the fact that we > know they're in > > Azkaban. > were gone and went to Azkaban rather than renounce him. From this > scene, I got the impression that the Lestranges were the couple that > Harry saw in the Pensive with Crouch, Jr. The fact of the matter is, I knew this. I knew that it wasn't given as fact, but that most fans assume that it's the case. In the Lexicon, I try extremely hard not to let these assumptions creep in, but only publish verifiable fact (I'm a regular Binns about it). But this one, I must admit, slipped by me. I was in one of those modes where I was creating new pages left and right and I did the Azkaban page on a whim as I was creating the Dementor page and as a result I just put stuff down from memory without actually pulling out my notes and making sure. I will have to go in and edit that page, either removing their names entirely or putting some sort of "possibly" statement in there. Unless, of course, Snuffles can bail me out and tell me for sure that the Australian edition DOES name them as being the ones sentenced with Crouch Jr.? Steve "So much for 'Constant Vigilance'" Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Jan 7 21:26:45 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:26:45 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: the blue glove References: <938i2b+qfu@eGroups.com> <3A58CF04.269BE6A1@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A58DF15.79484608@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 8742 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > What I didn't say very well, was that the glove part might not reflect > the composition of what it's attached to--it's probably attached to > serious arm protection. A glove, fitting the hand, will keep an > around-the-arm protection in place much better than just lacing it real > tight. I think the arm protection must have been heavier than the glove > we can see, and that (who? John?) was right and it'll be zapped out by > the Gods of Computer Imaging. The thing is that I've seen what people look like wearing stuff that's gonna be bluescreened out, thanks to a behind-the-scenes clip from a TV show I used to watch (hey, to all those American parents - do your kids watch Wishbone? It's a PBS show about a cute little Jack Russell who fantasizes about being the hero of various classic novels like Tom Sawyer or The Phantom of the Opera and other books like that...used to love it when I was about 10). And the clothing is blue - really, really intense blue, probably made out of some sort of nylon or something where you can't see the weave. Whereas this glove is both a) not blue enough, more blue-gray and b) has a clearly visible weave, and that added to the scarf Daniel Radcliffe's wearing makes me think that it's just supposed to be winter gear. But yeah, there's no way he's not wearing protection under that robe. ~Firebolt From amy at wintersmoon.com Sun Jan 7 22:25:09 2001 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:25:09 -0000 Subject: Percy and the Dark Side Message-ID: <93aqc5+jsbp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8743 I've really enjoyed the posts on Percy...both the Weasley Family Dynamics by Demelza and the Percy and the Dark Side post by Charmain. For some reason, I'm finding Percy to be very thought provoking right now. Percy's behavior and attitudes seem to become more meaningful as the story progresses. At first, Percy provides a bit of comedy. He's such a complete opposite from the rest of his family, except maybe Molly. Which may be why she's so tolerant of him. He struts around like a puffed up peacock and you can't help but to laugh when the rest of his family starts poking fun at him. However, when you start looking at the overall context like the two recent posts have, you start thinking about where Percy's going to find himself in the next couple years. On one hand, Percy, like Ron, has older brothers to live up to. While at Hogwarts, Bill was also Head Boy and Charlie was captain of the Gryffindor Quidditch team. (it's amazing that I can now spell Quidditch without having to check myself). Percy being Head Boy was nothing new and everyone is still talking about Charlie's skill on the Quidditch field. Percy is 18 years old and is probably still trying to find his niche. While it may seem that he's running as fast as he can away from any trait that may remotely be a Weasley trait, he is still a Weasley. (Which means, I think he'll come out on the right side at the end) On the other hand...and this is mainly because I read the Quidditch World Cup chapters last night in GoF...it seems that the wizarding world may have become a bit too lax in their "constant vigilance". And who can blame them - I bet the majority of them thought Voldermort was dead and would never come back. The thing that jumped out at me last night while reading was the crowd that surrounded the hooded figures grew as the march progressed. (Chapter Nine...the Dark Mark...at the beginning of the chapter) It's mentioned several times. "More wizards were joining the marching group, laughing and pointing up at the floating bodies." "The crowd beneath the Roberts family was larger than ever; they could see the Ministry wizards trying to get through it to the hooded wizards in the center." It wasn't just 20 or 30 death eaters participating in this. Mob mentality probably played a role in what happened, but the fact still remains that a lot of witches and wizards thought that what the alleged Death Eaters were doing was funny and at the time, acceptable. It would be easy for Voldermort to assert himself and the Death Eaters back into the wizarding world before the majority of them even realized what was going on. (I am working my way back to Percy). Right now, the wizarding world is divided into three segments. Voldermort's supporters, Fudge and his group who don't believe that Voldermort is back or that there's even a problem, and Dumbledore's group. I think Percy's going to find himself at a crossroads in the next book (or two). From his attitude in GoF, I would be very surprised if he *doesn't* align himself, at least at first, with Fudge. Failure to act, while it doesn't constitute supporting Voldermort, does silently condone Voldermort's actions. Percy has shown himself to not like questioning change...i.e. the house elves. He's all for things remaining status quo and following the rules. He reminds me of a character in Babylon 5 - one of the bridge crew. While the command staff is contemplating breaking away from earth, they start trying to feel out their staff. This one guy comes across as a nice guy, but one that would never think of breaking the rules and therefore would never go for the command staff breaking away from Earth (basically treason - but for a good reason). Then when push comes to shove and he's faced with that decision and sees for himself what's going on - he supports them 100%. I think that's where Percy's going to end up in another book or two. Wow...that got much longer than I intended. Sorry. Amy From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Jan 7 21:59:27 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (Rosemary) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:59:27 -0700 Subject: Wizard Paradise (a filk) Message-ID: <3A58E6A3.5E6E2792@qnet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8744 WIZARD PARADISE (to the tune of Gangsta Paradise) a filk by Pippin *with apologies to Coolio and Weird Al* As I'm tied to this tombstone in the shadow of death I take a look at my life and realize there's not much left coz my scar's been achin' and freakin' so long, that the Daily Prophet thinks that my mind is gone but I ain't never cursed a Muggle that didn't deserve it Dis my mum and dad, you know that's unheard of I really hate to brag but I gotta, folk As it glows I see my people in the wand smoke, fool Cedric, Frank and Bertha, James and Lily too They surrounded Voldie and they told me what to do So I accio'd that portkey and I dodged that nasty curse And I made it back to Hogwarts, but Cedric needs a hearse Innocence is sacrificed, livin in a Wizard paradise Me an' Voldie don't make nice, livin in a Wizard paradise Dementors put your soul on ice, livin in a Wizard paradise People keep on losin' lives, livin in a Wizard paradise Herbology on Monday, Astronomy at night I can't live a normal life, I was raised in so much strife so I gotta play Quidditch with the Gryffindor team the Mirror of Erised got me chasing dreams I'm an educated kid with galleons to fry got my wand in my hand and Firebolt to fly I'm a halfblood Parselmouth Dumbledore defender Warner Brothers gotta be my merchandise vendor, fool Death ain't nothing but a chapter away, I'm casting spells, do or die, what can I say I'm 14 now, but will I live to see 18 Coz Voldie's out to get me and Snape is really mean. Chorus: Got a werewolf for Defense, got a ghost for History We'll go to any lengths, to solve a mystery Wish we could spend our lives, living in the Wizard paradise Wish we could spend our lives, living in the Wizard paradise Minute after minute, hour after hour Potions in the Dungeon, Homework in the tower Everybody's running, Filch and Snape are lookin' House Elves in the kitchen, only Winky knows what's cookin' They say I gotta learn, they say they're gonna to teach me If I can't understand it, then You Know Who will reach me I win the points, I win the Cup I get the gold, that's why you know my life's an open book, fool No phones no fax no VCR No eckeltricity, House elves do all the chores Really ticks Hermione Dumbledore gives me advice, living in the Wizard paradise Wish I could spend my life, living in the Wizard paradise From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 23:01:34 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:01:34 -0000 Subject: Percy and the Dark Side In-Reply-To: <93aqc5+jsbp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93asge+msh4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8745 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > I've really enjoyed the posts on Percy...both the Weasley Family > Dynamics by Demelza and the Percy and the Dark Side post by > Charmain. For some reason, I'm finding Percy to be very thought > provoking right now. > Ah, thanks... > > It wasn't just 20 or 30 death eaters participating in this. Mob > mentality probably played a role in what happened, but the fact still > remains that a lot of witches and wizards thought that what the > alleged Death Eaters were doing was funny and at the time, > acceptable. It would be easy for Voldermort to assert himself and > the Death Eaters back into the wizarding world before the majority of > them even realized what was going on. Yes. I see the books getting even darker in the fifth and sixth installments, looking into my crystal ball. > > (I am working my way back to Percy). Right now, the wizarding world > is divided into three segments. Voldermort's supporters, Fudge and > his group who don't believe that Voldermort is back or that there's > even a problem, and Dumbledore's group. I think Percy's going to > find himself at a crossroads in the next book (or two). From his > attitude in GoF, I would be very surprised if he *doesn't* align > himself, at least at first, with Fudge. > > Failure to act, while it doesn't constitute supporting Voldermort, > does silently condone Voldermort's actions. Aren't "condone" and "support" synonyms? I think that failing to act may unknowingly aid Voldemort's cause, but I don't see it as condoning it. Percy has shown himself > to not like questioning change...i.e. the house elves. I wonder what's going to happen with the house elves? I suspect that Winky and Dobby will play a more important role as Winky adjusts to her freedom. Also about other intelligent magical humanoids, what about the goblins and veela? Someone posted awhile back about how the fact that they're learning about goblin revolts and how some goblins showed up at the end of GoF perhaps is foreshadowing. Then when push > comes to shove and he's faced with that decision and sees for himself > what's going on - he supports them 100%. I think that's where > Percy's going to end up in another book or two. > > Wow...that got much longer than I intended. Sorry. s'fine. ^_^ I agree with your analysis of Percy as a supporter of the status quo and being basically good. Charmian From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Jan 7 23:01:35 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 7 Jan 2001 23:01:35 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <978908495.34889@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8746 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Fanfic by Catlady/Snape01.htm Uploaded by : catlady at wicca.net Description : "BAD DREAMS: A Snape/Draco Romance" -- WARNING: besides the slash plotline, this episode contains migraine, nightmares, murder, torture, oodles of dysfunctionality, and a little bit of sex. You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/Fanfic+by+Catlady/Snape01%2Ehtm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, catlady at wicca.net From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 23:17:14 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:17:14 -0000 Subject: Irritating age/timeline/population questions Message-ID: <93atdq+rolr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8747 I know many people find this subject annoying, so I've warned you all in the header. Timelines/ages Where do the following stand in relation to James Potter's, Sirius, et. al.'s generation? 1)Bartemius Crouch Jr. 2)Rita Skeeter 3)Bertha Jorkins (IIRC Sirius mentions her as either being a few years ahead or behind them at Hogwarts, but not having GoF with me right now, I can't confirm) Since we can't even agree as to how many students there are per class at Hogwarts, this question is mostly meaningless, but have you wondered how many of the students at Hogwarts are from muggle families? Obviously, since they are educated to live in the wizard world, one assumes that they would join it at graduation and assimilate into it. If this has been going on for a long time, why are there so many pure-bloods left? OWLs and NEWTS: Someone told me that they're the equivalents of the O and A levels, which are kind of like the AP or IB exams. How many of these can one get (because they did give the number that Crouch Jr. and Percy, I believe, got)? Charmian From amy at wintersmoon.com Sun Jan 7 23:26:54 2001 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:26:54 -0000 Subject: Percy and the Dark Side In-Reply-To: <93asge+msh4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93atvu+vkjn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8748 > > > > Failure to act, while it doesn't constitute supporting Voldermort, > > does silently condone Voldermort's actions. > > Aren't "condone" and "support" synonyms? I think that failing to act > may unknowingly aid Voldemort's cause, but I don't see it as > condoning it. > Hmm...condone may not have been the right word. Basically, what I was trying to say was that by not doing anything, they're not doing anything to stop Voldermort. (I feel like I'm talking myself in circles here). > Percy has shown himself > > to not like questioning change...i.e. the house elves. > > I wonder what's going to happen with the house elves? I suspect that > Winky and Dobby will play a more important role as Winky adjusts to > her freedom. > > Also about other intelligent magical humanoids, what about the > goblins and veela? Someone posted awhile back about how the fact that > they're learning about goblin revolts and how some goblins showed up > at the end of GoF perhaps is foreshadowing. > I have a theory about House Elves. They've been in their servitude position for quite a while now and it's been said and shown several times that house elves have a powerful magic of their own. I think the house elves were "punished" into their current position because of how strong they were. Look at what they can do without a wand. They could have done something or it could have just been fear, but whatever it was - I don't think house elves have always been as they are now. I think they could become a formidable ally in the fight against Voldermort. And Dumbledore has already shown (unlike some other people) he's not above asking non-humans for help (the giants). Goblins on the other hand...for some reason I see them aligning themselves with Voldermort. I don't know why. And you know everyone would just be screwed if that happened - everyone uses Gringotts. I think the Dementors will definitely end up on Voldermort's side...which means that everyone in Azkaban gets a "Get out of Jail Free" card - and a whole lot of insane Death Eaters running around. Amy From vderark at bccs.org Sun Jan 7 23:42:06 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 23:42:06 -0000 Subject: Irritating age/timeline/population questions In-Reply-To: <93atdq+rolr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ause+nodm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8749 > Timelines/ages > Where do the following stand in relation to James Potter's, Sirius, > et. al.'s generation? > 1)Bartemius Crouch Jr. born approximately 1962 > 2)Rita Skeeter born in 1951 (her age is given) > 3)Bertha Jorkins (IIRC Sirius mentions her as either being a few > years ahead or behind them at Hogwarts, but not having GoF with me > right now, I can't confirm) 2 years ahead of Sirius/James/et al If we assume mid-70's for the Marauders to be at Hogwarts, they would have been born around 1960, so they are more or less contemporaries of Barty Crouch Jr. Of course, we are very much left in the dark about exact years for the Marauders at Hogwarts, so this is fuzzy at best. Check out the TimeLines in the Lexicon for more information. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Mon Jan 8 00:14:40 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 8 Jan 2001 00:14:40 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <978912880.99073@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8750 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/HP and the Song of Time/prologue.html Uploaded by : john at walton.to Description : Harry Potter and the Song of Time -- Prologue -- by Crazy Ivan (John Walton) You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/HP+and+the+Song+of+Time/prologue%2Ehtml To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, john at walton.to From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Mon Jan 8 00:17:15 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 8 Jan 2001 00:17:15 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <978913035.99605@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8751 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/HP and the Song of Time/chapter1.html Uploaded by : john at walton.to Description : Harry Potter and the Song of Time -- Chapter 1 -- by Crazy Ivan (John Walton) You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/HP+and+the+Song+of+Time/chapter1%2Ehtml To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, john at walton.to From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Mon Jan 8 00:18:34 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 8 Jan 2001 00:18:34 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <978913114.99863@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8752 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/HP and the Song of Time/chapter2.html Uploaded by : john at walton.to Description : Harry Potter and the Song of Time -- Chapter 2 -- by Crazy Ivan (John Walton) You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/HP+and+the+Song+of+Time/chapter2%2Ehtml To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, john at walton.to From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 00:33:54 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 00:33:54 -0000 Subject: the blue glove In-Reply-To: <3A58DF15.79484608@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <93b1ti+1tmf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8753 Firebolt wrote: "Whereas this glove is both a) not blue enough, more blue-gray and b) has a clearly visible weave, and that added to the scarf Daniel Radcliffe's wearing makes me think that it's just supposed to be winter gear." Well there is only one explanation of which I can think- Harry must clash. Scott From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 8 00:59:57 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 00:59:57 -0000 Subject: Riddle award, Quidditch Cup, Hedwig and Owls / Newts Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8754 Meredith wrote: "Also, the Tom Riddle award - Doesn't Ron say he was polishing a big metal shield for hours? There's a small brass shield in the middle of a wooden one but it looks like it would take 10 minutes to clean that one." It is said that he belched some slugs over it and that this made it extra sticky and messy. This means that Ron takes ages to clean it as Filch makes him do it over and over again until it is especially clean. At some point later, when the trio are investigating Riddle, Ron remarks that he is glad that it is quite small 'or else he would still be polishing it' (or words to that effect! Is this the shield that has Riddle spelt 'Riddell'? Meredith asked: "I went through some of the other pictures there, most specifically the trophy case. Does it bother anyone else that the Quidditch Cup isn't a cup?" No. Just because it is called a cup does not mean that it is one. It is fairly likely that it is not an original (a school such as Hogwarts probably needs a new one ever 100 years or so) and in replacing it has changed form - from a cup to a trophy. Amy wrote: "I wanna hold Hedwig!" I could not agree more. I think my computer backdrop may be in need of a change (currently the three eyed aliens from Toy Story). Charmain wrote: "OWLs and NEWTS: Someone told me that they're the equivalents of the O and A levels, which are kind of like the AP or IB exams. How many of these can one get (because they did give the number that Crouch Jr. and Percy, I believe, got)?" I don't know what AP or IB exams are so cannot answer that question but can do the others. O-levels don't exist anymore - they have been replaced by GCSE's (General Certificate of Secondary Education). Most people take nine or ten of these in the school year in which they turn 16 (I have 10 of them - no not twelve as I believe at least one person has said I have). A few people take twelve (and I believe there are cases of even more than this - though they are very rare) and some people take some subjects early. Not everyone takes A-levels (I have no idea of the percentage that do). Most people take three, but it is fairly common for people to take four - especially those applying for the top universities (I have four A-levels). There are also As-level's (Advanced supplementary (?)) which are equivalent to half an A-level (and strangely I also have one As-level). To confuse things slightly - the A-level system has changed recently and I am not totally sure what know happens (it does not make any difference to me - so I have made no effort to find out). Amy wrote: "And also thanks for reminding us, as Ebony also did very eloquently by example a while back, that not all evangelicals think alike (they're not all fundamentalists either)" This weekend someone pointed out something that I found quite amusing. I would doubt that you could find anyone to describe themselves as Fundamentalists, but the word is used very frequently and normally in a derogatory way. Simon (who was given plenty of food for thought this weekend - had to cook the food for the stomach himself (and for 80 others)) From muggle-reader at angelfire.com Mon Jan 8 01:09:14 2001 From: muggle-reader at angelfire.com (Demelza ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:09:14 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93ac8r+6em3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93b3vq+tpt1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8755 Amy Winters wrote: I've really enjoyed the posts on Percy...both the Weasley Family Dynamics by Demelza and the Percy and the Dark Side post by Charmain. For some reason, I'm finding Percy to be very thought provoking right now. Thanks! (blushing Demelza) Rita Winston" wrote: That is not how it appears to me. It seems to me that Molly approves highly of Percy. "How come Percy got new robes?" "Because he's a PREFECT," Molly said fondly. (Probably getting him an owl as reward for becoming a prefect was at least partly her idea.) She's proud of his twelve OWLs (and yells her head off at the twins for not getting enough OWLs), being a prefect, and being Head Boy, and and getting a job at the Ministry is what she wants all her sons to do. It seems to me that she favors him and is attempting to spoil him. Molly DOES coddle him and I think it's a reaction to how his personality differs from his siblings. Percy directly followed Bill and Charlie: two popular students. He had something to prove and wants to make a name for himself. There's nothing wrong with that. But it's clear from Ron's and the Twin's perception of Percy, Percy's method is to divorce himself from the 'eccentricities' of his family. The Weasley sweater in SS is an example. The twins and Ron wear theirs. Percy tells them he doesn't want to wear it, but Fred and George force it over his head. The Weasley sweater identifies him as a Weasley. Albeit, Fred and George aren't 'model citizens', Bill and Charlie certainly were. Yet, Percy isolates himself from his family (unless it's something favorable like Ron winning at the Giant Chess Game, then he has no problem at all being identified as a Weasley relation). Of course, Molly would give him accolades for his accomplishments---especially if his personality was one that needed those accolades and especially if she sees him attempting to set himself apart from the rest of his family. I agree with Chairman, Percy is teetering toward a Fudge-Crouch future. ~Demelza From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 8 01:10:07 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 20:10:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy Birthday Carole References: <939hp7+4qg6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003501c0790f$bf4340e0$4350d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8756 ----- Original Message ----- From: > Carole > > We share the same birthday... I was born 6th January as well! > Happy Birthday to us > Happy Birthday to us > Happy Birthday to all born on 6th Jan. > Happy Birtthday to us. > > > Nick. Hey NIck !!!! Happy Birthday!!! Doesn't it suck!!! I want to move mine to June! Actually yesterday was a very pleasant...thank you all. Hope you had a very happy day as well. Next time we should do some sort of simultaneous cake! Happy Birthday carole From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 8 01:23:55 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (msmacgoo at one.net.au) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:23:55 -0000 Subject: Lestranges' crime In-Reply-To: <93alrn+l1k1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93b4rb+4k4h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8757 I > just put stuff down from memory without actually pulling out my notes > and making sure. I will have to go in and edit that page, either > removing their names entirely or putting some sort of "possibly" > statement in there. Unless, of course, Snuffles can bail me out and > tell me for sure that the Australian edition DOES name them as being > the ones sentenced with Crouch Jr.? > > Steve "So much for 'Constant Vigilance'" Vander Ark I'll check this evening, but I'm SURE (without the book to check - what a dangerous statement) that they are named because of the unnamed person, unless that was a process of elimination thing ... oh dear, now I'm wondering ..... will get back to you this evening storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > Hey, gang: > > Clipped from a few posts: > > > > It never actually says that they were the Lestranges, though most > > people think they > > > are because of the woman's fanaticism speech, and the fact that > we > > know they're in > > > Azkaban. > > > > were gone and went to Azkaban rather than renounce him. From this > > scene, I got the impression that the Lestranges were the couple > that > > Harry saw in the Pensive with Crouch, Jr. > > > The fact of the matter is, I knew this. I knew that it wasn't given > as fact, but that most fans assume that it's the case. In the > Lexicon, I try extremely hard not to let these assumptions creep in, > but only publish verifiable fact (I'm a regular Binns about it). But > this one, I must admit, slipped by me. I was in one of those modes > where I was creating new pages left and right and I did the Azkaban > page on a whim as I was creating the Dementor page and as a result > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From pbnesbit at msn.com Mon Jan 8 01:37:50 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 01:37:50 -0000 Subject: Birthday Felicitations Message-ID: <93b5le+8u0d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8758 TO: Carole & Nick-- Happy birthday to the both of you. (Belatedly). Hope it was a good day for you. From yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com Mon Jan 8 02:14:33 2001 From: yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com (yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 21:14:33 EST Subject: Book 3- Snape; Neville; Sirius Message-ID: <70.6b4b7b2.278a7c89@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8759 Alright, I was rereading Book 3 again today, and I have a couple of things on my mind. On page 204, US hardcover, Fudge says (speaking to Rosmerta in Hosmeade about Black): "Not many people are aware that the Potters knew You-Know-Who was after them.?Dumbledore, who was of course working tirelessly against You-Know-Who, had a number of useful spies. ?One of the tipped him off, and he alerted James and Lily at once." Does anyone think that this useful spy was Snape? ?Maybe that's why Dumbledore trusts Snape. Just a thought. A small, sorta unanswerable thing, page 213: "He watched, as though somebody was playing him a piece of film, Sirius Black blasting Peter Pettigrew ( who resembled Neville Longbottom ) into a thousand pieces." Why did JKR put that part in parentheses about Neville there? ?Many times, little things that we just overlooked at first has ended up that ended up being a forshadowing of some sort... Can this be one? ?If it is, in what way? ?Any theories? It's true that we don't know much about Neville except that he seems to be really really clumsy. ?Is Neville hiding something? ?Or maybe it's something that even Neville doesn't know about... I don't know... I'm kinda just blabbing. Last thing. ?At the end of Book 3, when Sirius was caught, and when they all were saying that they couldn't trust just 2 kids instead of an adult(Snape), thinking Sirius Confounded both of them, why didn't they use the truth potion on Sirius? ?I know that the dementors had permission to perform the Kiss and all, but this really is a life-or-death situation. Shouldn't they have given Sirius the chance? ?They didn't have anything to lose-- if Harry and Hermione were Confounded, Sirius would say that given the truth potion. -Y.Y. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Jan 8 02:17:34 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 21:17:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 3- Sirius References: <70.6b4b7b2.278a7c89@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A59233E.9789DCF8@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8760 yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com wrote: > Last thing. At the end of Book 3, when Sirius was caught, and when they all > were saying that they couldn't trust just 2 kids instead of an adult(Snape), > thinking Sirius Confounded both of them, why didn't they use the truth potion > on Sirius? I know that the dementors had permission to perform the Kiss and > all, but this really is a life-or-death situation. Shouldn't they have given > Sirius the chance? They didn't have anything to lose-- if Harry and Hermione > were Confounded, Sirius would say that given the truth potion. There's a lawyerly explanation for this which has a few components, involving protectiona against self-incrimination-against-one's-will, or the same reason why lie detector tests aren't admissible in US courtroom, or that it's too new a potion to be trusted by the ministry But I have a different question - one which hasn't been asked at all, at least since I joined the list in June - Why, after Sirius broke into Gryffendor Tower, didn't they use Hermione's time turner for one turn, stand right inside the portrait & nab him when he came in? From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 12:13:23 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 07:13:23 -0500 Subject: Mr. Weasley Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8761 Stephanie wrote: >"John Cleese SHOULD be Arthur Weasley" > >I mean, i thought about it, and while he DOES look kind of old for the >part, >I REALLY like it, what a shame it is too late. Anyone wanna shoot me down I think you have a very cool mom. I CAN see him as AW even though that's not how I picture AW in my head. He isn't how I picture Nick either, but I think he'll be great. I keep getting this mental image of John Cleese with his head hanging almost completely off to one side, chatting away with Ron Weasley (MY Ron Weasley, of course, not that very nice but completely wrong-looking actor they found! ) Sigh, Amy the would-be casting director ------------------------------------------------------------ "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 02:47:52 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 02:47:52 -0000 Subject: OWLS/Neville Message-ID: <93b9oo+5d1h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8762 To Simon B.: Thanks for your explanations of the British testing system. Blarg. I can't keep this on topic by asking more questions about the character's scores because I don't have my text with me now. Re: Lestranges specifically torturers of Longbottom's--I don't remember them being designated as Crouch Jr.'s fellow accused at the trial. I remember Sirius mentioned them as people who hung out with Snape and became DEs. I think most people assume them to be them because Mrs. Lestrange is the only female death eater so far. (New thread topic: Voldemort sexist in hiring practices?) Y.Y. posted: "A small, sorta unanswerable thing, page 213: "He watched, as though somebody was playing him a piece of film, Sirius Black blasting Peter Pettigrew ( who resembled Neville Longbottom ) into a thousand pieces." Why did JKR put that part in parentheses about Neville there? Many times, little things that we just overlooked at first has ended up that ended up being a forshadowing of some sort... Can this be one? If it is, in what way? Any theories? It's true that we don't know much about Neville except that he seems to be really really clumsy. Is Neville hiding something? Or maybe it's something that even Neville doesn't know about... I don't know... I'm kinda just blabbing." Well, there is sort of a parallel...Pettigrew as the less comptenent guy who hung around the fab four, and Neville as the less competent guy who hangs around the trio. Of course, this is Harry's subconscious speaking before he knows the truth about the situation, so who knows what this really means? Neville's another Character To Watch in my mind. He's gotten a lot of development for a secondary character who could easily just be comic relief. BTW, what does one use a toad for? In the letter, they say that students could bring a cat, an owl, or a toad, as if they were somehow interchangable. An owl can deliver mail, but a cat or a toad seem more for companionship. Charmian From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 8 02:54:20 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 7 Jan 2001 18:54:20 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione through the eyes of kids/adults Message-ID: <20010108025420.25262.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8763 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From lj2d30 at gateway.net Mon Jan 8 03:25:02 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:25:02 -0000 Subject: Percy and the Dark Side In-Reply-To: <93atvu+vkjn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93bbue+7tq2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8764 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > > > > > > Failure to act, while it doesn't constitute supporting > Voldermort, does silently condone Voldermort's actions. > > > > Aren't "condone" and "support" synonyms? I think that failing to > act may unknowingly aid Voldemort's cause, but I don't see it as > > condoning it. > > > Hmm...condone may not have been the right word. Basically, what I > was trying to say was that by not doing anything, they're not doing > anything to stop Voldermort. (I feel like I'm talking myself in > circles here). There's a saying "All it takes for evil to prevail is for a good man to stand aside and do nothing." In light of Voldy's return, there will be some who theoretically oppose him, but won't stand up and voice that opposition, and perforce, will "support" him. Is that what you were aiming at, Amy? At any rate, I sincerely hope that Percy won't be in that group. I have a soft spot for the boy. Trina From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 8 03:31:21 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:31:21 -0000 Subject: We Think Wizards Are Odd (filk) Message-ID: <93bca9+pd1c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8765 We Think Wizards Are Odd (from HP-SS, Ch. 4) (to the tune of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz) (Scene: A tiny miserable shack on an otherwise barren island. A fierce storm is raging. HAGRID has just entered the shack, in which VERNON AND PETUNIA DURSLEY are hiding, along with their son Dudley, and their nephew HARRY POTTER) HAGRID (spoken, to Harry) But yer must know about yer mom and dad. I mean, they're famous. You're famous. VERNON: (spoken) Stop! Stop right there, sir! I forbid you to tell the boy anything! VERNON & PETUNIA (music) He cannot be a wizard Because we think wizards are odd On Privet Drive We intend to deprive Him of all magic for which he might strive Oh never oh never a Wiz he'll be Over our dead body it must be Agree, for we, you see, with glee decree That Harry Potter can never be free! He cannot be a wizard Because we think wizards are odd! HAGRID (to HARRY) You're going to be a wizard Because being a Muggle is odd You'll find it quite grand Once you understand That you carry the DNA strand >From two of the greatest who ever were To James and Lily, your folks, I refer (addressing VERNON) I'd prefer, dear sir, if you'd concur to defer Harry to me or your boy's a porker! (HAGRID swishes his umbrella in the air, resulting in a flash of violet light. Dudley is discovered to have grown a pig's tail. Exit,in confusion, the Dursley family) HAGRID & HARRY I'm/He's off to be a Wizard Because being a Muggle is odd! (exit, down the Yellow Brick Road to Diagon Alley) - CMC From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 8 03:35:06 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 7 Jan 2001 19:35:06 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Minerva McGonagall Message-ID: <20010108033506.19168.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8766 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 8 03:40:53 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:40:53 -0000 Subject: Book 3- Snape; Neville; Sirius In-Reply-To: <70.6b4b7b2.278a7c89@aol.com> Message-ID: <93bcs5+16cb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8767 > Shouldn't they have given > Sirius the chance? ?They didn't have anything to lose-- if Harry and Hermione > were Confounded, Sirius would say that given the truth potion. Real world reason? Because JKR thought up Veritaserum for book 4, so it didn't "exist" in the HP universe in book 3. So if we want to use that logic, we'll say that within the context of the books, Veratiserum was not yet available or was beyond even Snape's potion making skills until 1994. Maybe Snape had heard of it, that the Ministry was really going to be monitoring the use of this stuff, and he knew that THAT was one potion he just HAD to know how to make, especially since it would have come in so HANDY in that whole Sirius Black business (that dratted Potter MUST have had something to do with it, he just KNOWS it, if only he could MAKE him tell the truth). So he took a class during the summer, a grad level truth potions class, and now he carries that precious bottle around with him at all times, just in case...except he forgot to carry it to the Third Task, so he had to go get it. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which has an excellent page devoted to potions... http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 8 03:46:19 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:46:19 -0000 Subject: Percy and the Dark Side In-Reply-To: <93atvu+vkjn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93bd6b+sb8e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8768 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > > > > > I think the Dementors will definitely end up on Voldermort's > side...which means that everyone in Azkaban gets a "Get out of Jail > Free" card - and a whole lot of insane Death Eaters running around. > IMO, it may be that the Dementors' attempt to apply "the kiss" to Harry (toward the end of PoA) may not have been (as Fudge seems to have assumed) an instance of their being a bit over-zealous. After all, they don't seem to have "accidentally" gone after any other "innocent bystanders" during all the time they were stationed at Hogwarts. I think the Dementors, being Voldy's longtime allies, sense that Harry is their natural enemy, and responded accordingly. I think we'll see at least one other major Dementor attack against Harry before the series concludes. - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 8 03:55:29 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 03:55:29 -0000 Subject: Wizard Paradise (a filk) In-Reply-To: <3A58E6A3.5E6E2792@qnet.com> Message-ID: <93bdnh+bu2u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8769 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Rosemary wrote: > > WIZARD PARADISE (to the tune of Gangsta Paradise) a filk by Pippin > *with apologies to Coolio and Weird Al* > I don't know the original (for this relief, much thanks), but love your lyrics! - CMC From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 04:08:46 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 22:08:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 3- Sirius Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8770 Well, look at the obvious...if they did that stuff....Sirius would be respectable...and Harry's life and getting through things would be too easy. A big part of Harry is that he doesn't really have anyone to turn to, and to talk out stuff....I mean he can tell Sirius about Big things like his scar, but he never got to tell him about Ron, and if Sirius HAD been there in GoF....he woulda done the same dragon trick as Krum...I mean, this stuff DOESNT happen bc JKR is planning for what happens next... Stephanie > > Last thing. At the end of Book 3, when Sirius was caught, and when they >all > > were saying that they couldn't trust just 2 kids instead of an >adult(Snape), > > thinking Sirius Confounded both of them, why didn't they use the truth >potion > > on Sirius? I know that the dementors had permission to perform the Kiss >and > > all, but this really is a life-or-death situation. Shouldn't they have >given > > Sirius the chance? They didn't have anything to lose-- if Harry and >Hermione > > were Confounded, Sirius would say that given the truth potion. > >There's a lawyerly explanation for this which has a few components, >involving >protectiona against self-incrimination-against-one's-will, or the same >reason why >lie detector tests aren't admissible in US courtroom, or that it's too new >a >potion to be trusted by the ministry > >But I have a different question - one which hasn't been asked at all, at >least >since I joined the list in June - Why, after Sirius broke into Gryffendor >Tower, >didn't they use Hermione's time turner for one turn, stand right inside the >portrait & nab him when he came in? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 8 04:23:22 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 20:23:22 -0800 Subject: From Chat: 1) Babes of Hogwarts 2) Wizarding Money Message-ID: <3A5940B9.D4E8FAFD@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8771 catlady_de_los_angeles says, Are there enough Babes of Hogwarts for 12 months of a calendar? 1) Fleur on the cover, of course. 2) Hermione in her Ball gown. 3) Cho. 4) Pansy. 5,6) Professors Vector and Sinistra. 7) Is Ginny a Babe? [hert0661isme says, Ginny is a babe (if you find the right pic on the PoU group!)] 8) Parvati and Padma, in a twin photo. 9) Is Lavender a Babe? 10) selah_1977 says, Madam Rosmerta for the older men... fizzwhizbee says, Rosmerta isn't at Hogwarts! johnwalton_crazyivan says, <-- can see McGonagall in the Swimsuit Edition... fizzwhizbee says, LOL! McGonagall flying_ford_anglia says, Trelawney would suit evening wear - sort of drag queen chic flying_ford_anglia says, Madam Malkin in latex, non? selah_1977 says, <----------falls out of chair at Neil's suggestion catlady_de_los_angeles says, He called Madam Malkin 'a squat witch in mauve' johnwalton_crazyivan says, Neil, as long as it's a latex *robe*, that's fine. catlady_de_los_angeles says, that doesn't sound good im latex skaprincess27 says, I don't think latex is a good thing for anything flying_ford_anglia says, With thigh boots, naturally... fizzwhizbee says, Malkin is not at Hogwarts! (beginning to feel like Hermione) flying_ford_anglia says, pillar box red thigh boots... babynick34 says, Babes of Hogwarts... hmm, Prof.Sprout, perhaps, but maybe not. catlady_de_los_angeles says, Isn't there a description of Sprout as 'dumpy'? babynick34 says, Maybe it should be Hags of Hogwarts calendar jferer says, I always pictured Sprout as having a height/width ratio approaching 1:1 babynick34 says, Me too... about 3 foot high, and at least 2 foot wide. [Sprout and maybe Malkin are the only Hufflepuffs nominated. That can't be right.] 11) selah_1977 says, put the three Gryffindor Chasers in. I think they're more athletic than babes, but they're at Hogwarts. johnwalton_crazyivan says, And they're not jailbait. This is a Good Thing. catlady_de_los_angeles says, Group shot., with broomsticks skaprincess27 says, not just a good thing, but a Good Thing skaprincess27 says, *is choking down broomstick joke* Oooh! Yay! catlady_de_los_angeles says, A previous chat said that age of consent in UK is 16 but I don't know if wizard law has any age of consent laws johnwalton_crazyivan says, We could publish the calendar in Utah, where the only age-of-consent thing is that you can't be 10 years older than someone under 18.... selah_1977 says, Just age everyone up a tad, and you should be fine. catlady_de_los_angeles says, I think we can publish the calendar -- they put Brooke Shields at 12 in PRETTY BABY -- it's actually dating the models to which the proverb applies. The California proverb: Sixteen will get you twenty. In San Quentin. WIZARDING MONEY People in the chat discussed Wizarding money. I started copying the sentences into this e-mail, and then realized that it was belonging so long that I must summarise. Ebony asked: What's the Galleon to pound exchange rate? What are salaries like? We just don't know. I think one Galleon is worth around $25, which is worth around 17 1/2 pounds. ($1.43 = L1) That was computed based on 5 knuts for the newspaper in SS/PS, giving a knut is worth around a nickel, a sickle (29 knuts) is worth around $1.50, and a galleon (17 sickles) is worth around $25. Seven Galleons for a wand would be $175 for something that is supposed to last a lifetime. When Harry bought out the candy cart on his first trip on Hogwaats Expresss, he paid eleven sickles and 7 knuts, which in my system ranges from $16.30 to $16.75, but during the chat I did it in my head and got $16.38. Dee objected to my whole basis of five knuts for the Daily Prophet is around two bits, saying that even her skinny small-town newspaper costs $0.35 not $0.25. I suggested that the Daily Prophet is such a bad paper that it isn't worth as much as her local paper. Neil appears to agree with her, doing a computation based on a knut being 5p (roughly 7c): 1.45 x 17 = 24.65 (Galleon), which would be roughly $35. selah_1977 says, What's a starting Quidditch Seeker's salary per annum? 500,000 sickles? [later computation, at $25 = $725,000] flying_ford_anglia says, 3,000 Galleons... [later computation: $75,000] selah_1977 says, That low, Neil? flying_ford_anglia says, That's about 24,000, I reckon... [later: $34,320. He seems to have cut something in half.] heiditandy says, bonus for each snitch caught. and bonus for making it into playoffs & then to finals & for winning them too catlady_de_los_angeles says, Was he a superstar Seeker at Hogwarts? [Who would have a lot of teams bidding against each other for his services.] catlady_de_los_angeles says, Someone who only got into the minor league farm team would be ecstatic to get twice minimum wage for the season, and nothing out of season selah_1977 says, So it's safe to say that no one in this world makes a million Galleons a year? [$25 million. Some Muggles make $25 million per annum.] catlady_de_los_angeles says, I figure that ten Galleons a week (what Dumbledore offered Dobby) is normal minimum wage for adults flying_ford_anglia says, That's about 200 a year... [no, 500 a year = $12,500. That's higher than USA minimum wage.] fizzwhizbee says, Dumbledore probably would pay more than minimum wage catlady_de_los_angeles says, To a House Elf? Remember Dobby refused it, insisted on be paid LESS fizzwhizbee says, That gold must be enchanted, how can he even carry it? flying_ford_anglia says, Good point... when Harry dropped a thousand Galleons... catlady_de_los_angeles says, $25,000 flying_ford_anglia says, on the bedside table, it would have smashed it (GoF) selah_1977 says, Neil and Heidi: So Harry is a Galleonaire, huh? flying_ford_anglia says, I think Harry has about ...ooooh ..... 50,000 Galleons [$1,250,000. Quite plausible. Not enough to retire on.] catlady_de_los_angeles says, I am sure there is magic on the wizarding money to make it light enough to carry. I am also sure there is magic on the wizarding money to make it not possible to counterfeit heiditandy says, we don't know how large they are - and they're not shaped like Muggle money - catlady_de_los_angeles says, The wizarding money is all boringly round. Ron was amused at the 50p coin because it ISN'T round. That is a great disappointment to those of us who wanted the Sickle to be crescent shaped. heiditandy says, no, I think the knuts aren't round. If they were, they would stack and in the vault, they dont fizzwhizbee says, Galleons can't be size of hubcaps, can they? hert0661isme says, depends what size hubcaps! [Tim was telling me that trucks (lorries) have little tiny hubcaps that cover only the hub itself. He said the hub is really just the part of the axle that sticks out and made a hand gesture indicating something like 2.5 inch diameter. He said what we usually deal with are wheel caps.] johnwalton_crazyivan says, And there are only three types of coin. Silly! catlady_de_los_angeles says, We don't know that there aren't two-knut and 5-sickle and 20-Galleon and 100-Galleon coins flying_ford_anglia says, Do they have notes... probably not skaprincess27 says, It seems sort of irrational for them to carry around large denominations in coin form. hert0661isme says, paper money? you can't have that - modern muggle invention! fizzwhizbee says, Arthur seemed very unfamiliar with paper money heiditandy says, sort of like the Pu in HitchHiker's Guide. --- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 04:45:45 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 04:45:45 -0000 Subject: Wizard Paradise (a filk) In-Reply-To: <3A58E6A3.5E6E2792@qnet.com> Message-ID: <93bglp+41ob@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8772 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Rosemary wrote: > > WIZARD PARADISE (to the tune of Gangsta Paradise) a filk by Pippin > *with apologies to Coolio and Weird Al* Pippin, you nearly made me fall out of my chair! Two of my favorite things--Harry Potter and rap--united. I couldn't have done it. I would have never thought of it. My admiration for you has just been raised another notch. Here's my favorite rhymes: > I'm a halfblood Parselmouth Dumbledore defender > Warner Brothers gotta be my merchandise vendor, fool Perfect combination of hip-hop head braggadacio and Puff Daddy-style materialism. > I'm 14 now, but will I live to see 18 > Coz Voldie's out to get me and Snape is really mean. The ever-present angst of the ghetto youth with that sword of Damocles dangling over his head. Yes! > Got a werewolf for Defense, got a ghost for History > We'll go to any lengths, to solve a mystery Combining the problems of inner-city life (including poor educational structures) with Scooby Doo refs (every rapper I've seen interviewed loves cartoons and video games) earns you "mad propz". > No phones no fax no VCR > No eckeltricity, > House elves do all the chores > Really ticks Hermione This verse just plain made me giggle. Too bad there aren't any wizard rappers... but if there were, a strong case could be made for Busta Rhymes (who does spots for the sci-fi channel). There's definitely more to him than meets the eye. Thanks for the once in a lifetime experience... who knows when I'll be able to talk rap and Harry Potter at the same time again? I *did* have a Harry Potter rap/song/poem assignment designed before I had to table the unit... too bad. --Ebony (who's currently hooked on Jay-Z and Mystikal's latest CDs) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 05:28:49 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 05:28:49 -0000 Subject: Babes of Hogwarts (was: OT: Babes in Oz In-Reply-To: <200101071912.f07JCxC14383@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <93bj6h+di1b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8773 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is > >he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger > >Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for > >April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in > >August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle (fifty years > >ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? > > A-HEM! Just where is Ron is this lineup? > > Kathy Well said, Kathy! Ron on stone horseback in McGonagal's giant chess game? From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 8 05:46:17 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 05:46:17 -0000 Subject: Barely Alive (filk) Message-ID: <93bk79+p09d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8774 BARELY ALIVE (from HP/SS, Chap. 17) (to the tune of Stayin' Alive) (HARRY POTTER, having made it through the maze, opens the door to final chamber, and discovers PROF. QUIRRELL inside) HARRY (spoken) You! QUIRRELL: (spoken) Me. I wondered whether I'd be meeting you here, Potter. HARRY: (spoken) But I thought . QUIRRELL (music) Well, I can tell by the way your mouth's agape You know the villain's me, it isn't Snape We've been tryin' to find the Philosopher's Stone, But its wherebouts are now unknown But's that's all right. I suspect If I can get you to reflect We'll obtain with minimal strife The secret of eternal life When I met Voldy in Albania, he was in intensive pain-ya He was barely alive barely alive My ideas of good and evil he taught me were medieval He was startin' to thrive, startin' to thrive Ah, ha, ha, ha, barely alive, barely alive. Ah, ha, ha, ha, startin' to thrive. Well now, if there's a problem I can't face My master puts me in my place I call on him for all advice After he performed this certain splice Now, watch my turban as I unwrap You-Know-Who is here on tap Emblazoned behind my head's The foremost member of the Undead (QUIRRELL completes unwrapping his turban, and turns around, revealing the face of VOLDEMORT on the back of his head. Both QUIRRELL and HARRY scream) VOLDEMORT Shadow and vapor until I shared him See what I've become, oh yeah Now, this Stone caper has really scared him To me you will succumb, oh yeah! HARRY (to himself) Now, I think that I must play for time To hinder Voldemort's attempt at crime Somehow though the science is not of rocket That stone is now deep inside my pocket VOLDEMORT That it's on your person, I now perceive Hand it over, I shall receive HARRY: That's a threat I must spurn `Cause when you touch me you must burn! (QUIRRELL/VOLDEMORT grab Harry, and scream, because physical contact with HARRY deeply burns them. Harry grabs them as tightly as he can) QUIRRELL & VOLDEMORT (panicked) We're goin' nowhere. Somebody kill him! Somebody kill him, yeah. (QUIRRELL tries to perform a curse on HARRY. ALBUS DUMBLEDORE bursts through the doors, and quells the threat ? QUIRRELL/VOLDEMORT are rendered inert) DUMBLEDORE You're goin' nowhere. Harry, I'll help you, yeah. HARRY (groggy) I'm stayin' alive........... (passes out) -CMC From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 8 06:00:32 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 06:00:32 -0000 Subject: Wizarding Money In-Reply-To: <3A5940B9.D4E8FAFD@wicca.net> Message-ID: <93bl20+moff@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8775 > heiditandy says, we don't know how large they are - and they're not > shaped like Muggle money - > catlady_de_los_angeles says, The wizarding money is all boringly round. > Ron was amused at the 50p coin because it ISN'T round. That is a great > disappointment to those of us who wanted the Sickle to be crescent > shaped. Are you saying that the 50p coin is NOT round? Ron sees the coin and is surprised...he says: "Weird! What a shape! This is money?" So whatever shape the 50p coin is, Wizard money ISN'T. None of it, or Ron wouldn't have been surprised to see the shape. > heiditandy says, no, I think the knuts aren't round. If they were, they > would stack and in the vault, they dont Not proof, though. One of the rules of swag states that coins must be heaped in order to look more opulent. It wouldn't seem as exciting if the vault had contained many many coins, all stacked in neat piles, some even rolled. Where's the decadence in that? > fizzwhizbee says, Galleons can't be size of hubcaps, can they? GF doesn't say that Galleons or any other of the British Wizarding coins are the size of hubcaps. The folks who tried to pay Mr. Roberts with money that size were very likely foreign. He has just asked Arthur if they're foreign, and it's reasonable that he is thinking that way because he's run into so many other foreigners over the last coupld of days. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From mornerka at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 07:10:10 2001 From: mornerka at yahoo.com (mornerka at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 07:10:10 -0000 Subject: Hi... =) Message-ID: <93bp4i+hqds@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8776 Well, I figure I should at least introduce myself, as I just joined the newsgroup tonight. My name is Karla and I just read all four of the Harry Potter books within the past week. They are ADDICTING and now I just really am looking forward to the discussions on here. One question that I had while reading the books was why did Voldemort go to kill Harry and not Harry's parents? Throughout the Prisoner of Azkaban book, Harry hears what happened when his parents died. They died to protect him from Voldemort, not because Voldemort was after THEM. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I would love to hear other people's take on this. Thanks! -Karla From duo at dangerous-minds.com Mon Jan 8 07:59:50 2001 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 15:59:50 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93ac8r+6em3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8777 >That is not how it appears to me. It seems to me that Molly approves >highly of Percy. "How come Percy got new robes?" "Because he's a >PREFECT," Molly said fondly. (Probably getting him an owl as reward >for becoming a prefect was at least partly her idea.) She's proud of >his twelve OWLs (and yells her head off at the twins for not getting >enough OWLs), being a prefect, and being Head Boy, and and getting a >job at the Ministry is what she wants all her sons to do. It seems to >me that she favors him and is attempting to spoil him. I agree. It appears to me that Percy's seen by his mother as a ticket to financial stability from a high paying position at the ministry. Nathan From john at walton.to Mon Jan 8 07:52:40 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 07:52:40 +0000 Subject: OWLs & NEWTs vs US system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8778 Simon wrote: > Charmain wrote: "OWLs and NEWTS: Someone told me that they're the > equivalents of the O and A levels, which are kind of like the AP or IB > exams. How many of these can one get (because they did give the number that > Crouch Jr. and Percy, I believe, got)?" Okay, I'm probably best qualified to answer this as an American educated in the UK boarding school system :) Yes, OWLs are taken at the same age as GCSEs (O-levels if you took them before 1984) and NEWTs at the same age as A-levels. Only difference is that Wizarding qualifications don't seem to be graded, just decided on a pass/fail basis, unlike the Muggle system. > I don't know what AP or IB exams are so cannot answer that question but can > do the others. O-levels don't exist anymore - they have been replaced by > GCSE's (General Certificate of Secondary Education). An AP (Advanced Placement) exam is what clever Americans take for university entrance. The SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) is so unbelievably basic (it's multiple choice, for goodness' sake!) that decent colleges want more than that. I have friends doing APs in World History, English Lit, etc. My university (St Andrews, which has a large proportion of American students) counts an AP as half an A-level. IMHO it's more like a third of an A-level, especially considering that a British student with A-levels can usually enter into Year 2 of an American BA program. > Most people take nine or ten of these in the school year in which they turn > 16 (I have 10 of them - no not twelve as I believe at least one person has > said I have). A few people take twelve (and I believe there are cases of > even more than this - though they are very rare) and some people take some > subjects early. I have 10 as well, one of which I took in the November preceding the June exams (French, and I then proceeded directly to some modules of A-level French for Professional Use) and one of which I took as a subsidiary during the Lower Sixth (Year 6 at Hogwarts). It should be noted that up to a third of students at state-run schools leave after their GCSEs at 16 -- those are the only qualifications that, for instance, my Mum has. Ditto Richard Branson (Mr Virgin) and Diana, Princess of Wales. It would, however, be most unusual for a pupil at a boarding school to leave after GCSEs. Most good universities will require at least a pass (C grade) in GCSE English, Maths and a foreign language. > Not everyone takes A-levels (I have no idea of the percentage that do). Most > people take three, but it is fairly common for people to take four - > especially those applying for the top universities (I have four A-levels). > There are also As-level's (Advanced supplementary (?)) which are equivalent > to half an A-level (and strangely I also have one As-level). Yes, AS-levels are/were Advance Supplementaries. I have three A-levels and two modules of French for Professional Use AS-level. It should be noted that there are no compulsory A-levels -- I did English Lit, Politics and French -- the only limit is the teaching capacity of your school. > To confuse things slightly - the A-level system has changed recently and I > am not totally sure what know happens (it does not make any difference to > me - so I have made no effort to find out). Yeah...from what I hear from teacher friends, you now take six subjects in the first year of A-levels and then specialise to three. Daft idea -- I enjoyed not having to do nasty things like Maths or Science for A-level! Interestingly, many independent schools (aka public schools aka private schools) are now considering using the IB (International Baccalaureate) rather than this new A-level system. To conclude and draw comparisons with the US system: 1) There are two sets of hard exams in the UK, as opposed to the SAT and only possible APs. 2) UK exams are graded: GCSEs on A-B-C (Pass) D-F-N-U (Fail); A-levels on A-B-C-D-E (Pass) N-U (Fail) ((N stands for Near Pass and U for Unclassified, ie Appalingly Dreadful)) 3) OWLs are taken at the same time as GCSEs (the Exams Formerly Known as O-levels); NEWTs as A-levels (currently being phased out). Hope this helps -- don't hesitate to yell with more questions. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Disney gave us Mickey. Florida gave us Dumbo. ======================================== From john at walton.to Mon Jan 8 07:55:53 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 07:55:53 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8779 Nathan wrote: > I agree. It appears to me that Percy's seen by his mother as a ticket to > financial stability from a high paying position at the ministry. I disagree. Rather, I think Molly's actions are like the desires of any mother for her children to succeed in life. Her husband has succeeded at the MoM, and doing so appears to be the "sensible" course in life. Remember, Fred and George wouldn't be rebels without Molly telling them off :) --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: "Come the millennium, month 12 In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader." ======================================== From john at walton.to Mon Jan 8 08:03:13 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 08:03:13 +0000 Subject: The Shape of British Money (was: Wizarding Money) In-Reply-To: <93bl20+moff@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8780 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > Are you saying that the 50p coin is NOT round? Ron sees the coin and > is surprised...he says: "Weird! What a shape! This is money?" So > whatever shape the 50p coin is, Wizard money ISN'T. None of it, or > Ron wouldn't have been surprised to see the shape. Okay, here's a rundown of British Money. If anyone knows a site with pretty pictures, yell :) Then send a link. 1p: bronze, round, smooth edges, slightly larger than 1? 2p: bronze, round, smooth edges, twice the size of 1? and thicker 5p: silver, round, ribbed (for lack of a better word!) edges, almost the size of a 10? 10p: silver, round, ribbed, about the size of a 25? 20p: silver, heptagonal (7 sides), smooth edges, slightly smaller and thinner than a 10? piece 50p: silver, heptagonal (7 sides), smooth edges, about the size of one of those new $1 coins but thicker ?1: goldish (not real gold; does anyone know the metal?), round, ribbed edges, as thick as two 5? on top of each other and a bit larger ?2: goldish center, silver outside, round, ribbed edges, about as thick as two 25? pieces, looks like a 10 French Franc piece on steroids. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Don't lose your right to vote -- let Jeb Bush take it away from you! ======================================== From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 08:52:55 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 08:52:55 -0000 Subject: Mr. Weasley In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93bv57+4al1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8781 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Z" wrote: > > > If we get to pick a Python for Uncle Vernon, how about Michael Palin? He is > normally very cuddly (not with that Cleese edge) but he can do that > turning-purple-with-apoplectic-rage thing very well. The retreat to the > Hut-on-the-Rock, in fact, has a Palinesque, Pythonesque quality to it--MP as > VD keeps coming up with new schemes, getting a little purpler and a little > shriller each time, til he has his family holed up in a hut in a raging > storm and he's got steam coming out of his ears. > No way! Palin is much too sweet. He has the kindest face and IMO he does goofy-boneheaded-amiable-dumb even better than apoplectic ("He's pinin' for the fjords"). He would make a perfect Arthur Weasely. For Vernon - how about Terry Jones? He has the right physique and, IIRC, he was brilliant as Brian's horrid mother. Naama From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 8 09:40:21 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:40:21 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lestranges' crime Message-ID: <01C079B3.70443900.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8782 You are all right, the Lestranges are not mentioned by name. BUT I'm sure that I have read somewhere that the lestranges are responsible for what has happened to Neville's parents so I will find it tonight and post the reference tomorrow (or die). Steve - you are too hard on yourself, I'm sure that there is something that directly connects the Lestranges to the attacks on the longbottoms. storm -----Original Message----- From: msmacgoo at one.net.au [SMTP:msmacgoo at one.net.au] Sent: Monday, January 08, 2001 11:24 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lestranges' crime I > just put stuff down from memory without actually pulling out my notes > and making sure. I will have to go in and edit that page, either > removing their names entirely or putting some sort of "possibly" > statement in there. Unless, of course, Snuffles can bail me out and > tell me for sure that the Australian edition DOES name them as being > the ones sentenced with Crouch Jr.? > > Steve "So much for 'Constant Vigilance'" Vander Ark I'll check this evening, but I'm SURE (without the book to check - what a dangerous statement) that they are named because of the unnamed person, unless that was a process of elimination thing ... oh dear, now I'm wondering ..... will get back to you this evening storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > Hey, gang: > > Clipped from a few posts: > > > > It never actually says that they were the Lestranges, though most > > people think they > > > are because of the woman's fanaticism speech, and the fact that > we > > know they're in > > > Azkaban. > > > > were gone and went to Azkaban rather than renounce him. From this > > scene, I got the impression that the Lestranges were the couple > that > > Harry saw in the Pensive with Crouch, Jr. > > > The fact of the matter is, I knew this. I knew that it wasn't given > as fact, but that most fans assume that it's the case. In the > Lexicon, I try extremely hard not to let these assumptions creep in, > but only publish verifiable fact (I'm a regular Binns about it). But > this one, I must admit, slipped by me. I was in one of those modes > where I was creating new pages left and right and I did the Azkaban > page on a whim as I was creating the Dementor page and as a result > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Mon Jan 8 09:50:59 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 20:50:59 +1100 Subject: OT: Simon B References: <93b9oo+5d1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <02b901c07958$91c45520$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8783 Have to be more specific than Simon B. We have a Mr. Branford and a Mr. Biber here. this is Simon Biber. :-) > To Simon B.: Thanks for your explanations of the British testing > system. Blarg. I can't keep this on topic by asking more questions > about the character's scores because I don't have my text with me > now. From hamster8 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 10:18:41 2001 From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (Al ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:18:41 -0000 Subject: The Shape of British Money (was: Wizarding Money) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93c461+hb6p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8784 > Okay, here's a rundown of British Money. If anyone knows a site with pretty > pictures, yell :) Then send a link. > > 1p: bronze, round, smooth edges, slightly larger than 1? > 2p: bronze, round, smooth edges, twice the size of 1? and thicker > 5p: silver, round, ribbed (for lack of a better word!) edges, almost the > size of a 10? > 10p: silver, round, ribbed, about the size of a 25? > 20p: silver, heptagonal (7 sides), smooth edges, slightly smaller and > thinner than a 10? piece > 50p: silver, heptagonal (7 sides), smooth edges, about the size of one of > those new $1 coins but thicker > ?1: goldish (not real gold; does anyone know the metal?), round, ribbed > edges, as thick as two 5? on top of each other and a bit larger > ?2: goldish center, silver outside, round, ribbed edges, about as thick as > two 25? pieces, looks like a 10 French Franc piece on steroids. > > --John To which Al adds (as his first post here ... hey everybody!) I think ?1 is standard cupro-nickel alloy, but am not sure, so don't quote me on that. ?2 has a silver middle and a gold outside, I don't know what coin you've been using! :-) Urban legens has it that if you put a ?2 coin in a pan of boiling water, the middle drops out ... I tried it and it is a lie! From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 10:24:06 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:24:06 -0000 Subject: Why was Voldemort after Harry?/info on this club (was Hi... =)) In-Reply-To: <93bp4i+hqds@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93c4g6+ssau@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8785 Karla wrote: <<<>>> Hi Karla, Welcome to the club! I know how you feel. I devoured the first three books in a week or so (GoF wasn't out at the time). I'm dead impressed that you managed to polish off the first three AND Goblet of Fire in the space of a week. Hmmmm: I think you'll be right at home here . <<<>>> I guess that question is the crux of the whole series. It may be that Voldemort somehow knew that a wizard of great power had been born into the world, one who would be a threat to his plans in future years (someone recently posted a sort of `King Herod analogy' theory to account for the low numbers of Gryffindor students in Harry's year). Alternatively, Harry may represent the last of the Gryffindor line, in which case Voldemort would have wanted both James and Harry dead (or Lily and Harry, depending on which of the parents could be a descendent of Godric Gryffindor). Another thought is that V is just completely unhinged and killed irrationally or out of bottled-up jealousy, because he had loved Lily. You'll find that this topic has been discussed here before. Online, eGroups has a very useful search feature and you may find quite a bit on this under the heading "Priori Incantatem" as part of a discussion on why and when James and Lily were killed. Some of us have been working on a set of substantive `FAQs' covering the various HP-related topics and characters that have been discussed here. These will serve as a guide to theories that have already been proposed on those burning questions. Most of these FAQs (for want of a better description) will be available very soon; they have taken rather longer than we anticipated due to the high posting rate here! We are currently in the process of revamping the administrative areas of the club. If you go online, be sure to check out the Files area: that will give you a good idea of some of the activities here and information on some club annexes and archives. Neil From millilita at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 10:26:58 2001 From: millilita at hotmail.com (millie li) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 10:26:58 -0000 Subject: (OT) Hunks of Hogwarts (was: Babes of Hogwarts) In-Reply-To: <93ae59+532s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93c4li+enbc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8786 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > > > > --Ebony (who doubts there will ever be a "Harry Potter and > > > the Hunks of Hogwarts, but sure wouldn't mind) > > > > That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is > > he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger > > Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for > > April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in > > August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle (fifty > years > > ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? > > Hi Rita and all-- > > I'm back in the computer lab, and now people are staring at me b/c > I'm sputtering, trying to hold back my giggles. > > :::the most hilarious of the above mental images is by far Hagrid in > paisley swim trunks with a fully decorated and lit Christmas tree > under each hairy arm::: > > Men have done stuff like this for centuries... why not? > > --Ebony (now grinning over plans to have her female characters cackle > over the swimsuit edition of *Quidditch Illustrated*--but then again, > you'd have male and female models, and perhaps even non-human magical > creatures play Quidditch, so I guess everyone would be happy.) Quidditch Illustrated? Is Oliver Wood in it? =) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Mon Jan 8 11:41:33 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 12:41:33 +0100 Subject: Lycanthropic Research Message-ID: <004501c07967$f42c24e0$ec2b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8787 I just found this website and thought I'd share it with all fellow Remus-Lovers . http://www.swampfox.demon.co.uk/utlah/humour/index.html Dinah 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 8 12:46:52 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 12:46:52 -0000 Subject: British Money/ Wizarding Money In-Reply-To: <93c461+hb6p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ccrt+oabb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8788 Metal of UK coins: Just for the record, the one pence piece is made of copper-plated steel, the current two pence coins are made of bronze and the 5, 10, 20 and 50 pence bits are all cupronickel (although the 20p has a slightly higher copper content than the others). The one pound coin is made of nickel-brass and the two pound coin consists of a central disc of cupronickel and an outer ring of nickel-brass. Wizard money: In Sunday's chat, we discussed the fact that Galleons must be very heavy if they are large and made of solid gold. With all this talk of the UK's funny heptagonal and two-tone coinage, I am now wondering whether Galleons might have, say, a hole in the middle to reduce the weight. Otherwise, the pockets of the wizard population must drag along the ground like a sack of potatoes. Someone, Pippin I think, suggested that there must be a charm to make the coins feel lighter ? that makes sense. Of course, we're assuming that wizard gold is actually made of real - Au ? gold; could it be something different that is just gold-coloured? Does it say anywhere that it is actual gold? I also asked the other chatters how large they thought a Gringott's vault was. Guesses ranged from the size of a wall safe to the size of a small room, but there was some agreement that the vaults were probably as large as they need to be, expanding or contracting according to the contents. Does Harry have the foggiest idea what amount of money is in his vault? When he has withdrawn money, he seems to just scoop handfuls of coins into a bag, which suggests that there is so much money in the vault he doesn't have to bother about the amount he is taking. Don't the goblin bankers have to monitor deposits and withdrawals by their customers and issue statements, or is all that done magically? Neil From amy at wintersmoon.com Mon Jan 8 13:16:57 2001 From: amy at wintersmoon.com (Amy Winters) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:16:57 -0000 Subject: Percy and the Dark Side In-Reply-To: <93bbue+7tq2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93cek9+5emc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8789 Trina, you said it perfectly. That's exactly what I was going for! Thanks! I think at first Percy's going to side with Fudge. His attitudes and behavior have just set him up to do that. However, I really think that when push comes to shove, Percy will stand up with the rest of them...it'll just take him a bit longer. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of room for missing scenes. With everything written from Harry's viewpoint, we'll probably miss out on what could be some very good scenes with Percy and him questioning who he is. Amy (BTW...I'm changing my email address...it's now alw at wilsonllp.com We've got a couple Amy's floating around all ready, so I thought I'd give everyone a heads up) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Winters" wrote: > > > > > > > > Failure to act, while it doesn't constitute supporting > > Voldermort, does silently condone Voldermort's actions. > > > > > > Aren't "condone" and "support" synonyms? I think that failing to > > act may unknowingly aid Voldemort's cause, but I don't see it as > > > condoning it. > > > > > Hmm...condone may not have been the right word. Basically, what I > > was trying to say was that by not doing anything, they're not doing > > anything to stop Voldermort. (I feel like I'm talking myself in > > circles here). > > There's a saying "All it takes for evil to prevail is for a good man > to stand aside and do nothing." In light of Voldy's return, there > will be some who theoretically oppose him, but won't stand up and > voice that opposition, and perforce, will "support" him. Is that > what you were aiming at, Amy? At any rate, I sincerely hope that > Percy won't be in that group. I have a soft spot for the boy. > > Trina From alw at wilsonllp.com Mon Jan 8 13:18:22 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 08:18:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 3- Snape; Neville; Sirius References: <70.6b4b7b2.278a7c89@aol.com> Message-ID: <008401c07975$79e3a330$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 8790 On the Neville part... Harry didn't see first hand what happened - all he could do is create a picture in his head based on what he had heard. He had no idea what Peter looked like, so he substitued what he considered to be his version of Peter...Neville. I do agree with Charmain that Neville is a character to watch. I'm sort of disappointed that he hasn't been used more. In fact, when I was reading GoF for the first time, I was half expecting him to be the one to die. He's connected with all of this somehow. His parents we're obviously in the same crowd as Harry's parents (Wish we had that next book so we could know for sure if we could just call this group the Order of the Phoenix) and Neville was sorted into Gryffindor - there had to be a reason for that and I don't think it was simply what happened in PS/SS. Amy ----- Original Message ----- From: yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com To: Harry_Potter at egroups.com ; HPforGrownUps at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2001 9:14 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 3- Snape; Neville; Sirius Alright, I was rereading Book 3 again today, and I have a couple of things on my mind. On page 204, US hardcover, Fudge says (speaking to Rosmerta in Hosmeade about Black): "Not many people are aware that the Potters knew You-Know-Who was after them. Dumbledore, who was of course working tirelessly against You-Know-Who, had a number of useful spies. One of the tipped him off, and he alerted James and Lily at once." Does anyone think that this useful spy was Snape? Maybe that's why Dumbledore trusts Snape. Just a thought. A small, sorta unanswerable thing, page 213: "He watched, as though somebody was playing him a piece of film, Sirius Black blasting Peter Pettigrew ( who resembled Neville Longbottom ) into a thousand pieces." Why did JKR put that part in parentheses about Neville there? Many times, little things that we just overlooked at first has ended up that ended up being a forshadowing of some sort... Can this be one? If it is, in what way? Any theories? It's true that we don't know much about Neville except that he seems to be really really clumsy. Is Neville hiding something? Or maybe it's something that even Neville doesn't know about... I don't know... I'm kinda just blabbing. Last thing. At the end of Book 3, when Sirius was caught, and when they all were saying that they couldn't trust just 2 kids instead of an adult(Snape), thinking Sirius Confounded both of them, why didn't they use the truth potion on Sirius? I know that the dementors had permission to perform the Kiss and all, but this really is a life-or-death situation. Shouldn't they have given Sirius the chance? They didn't have anything to lose-- if Harry and Hermione were Confounded, Sirius would say that given the truth potion. -Y.Y. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 8 15:57:19 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 15:57:19 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93co0v+tr8j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8791 Nathanwrote: > >That is not how it appears to me. It seems to me that Molly approves > >highly of Percy. "How come Percy got new robes?" "Because he's a > >PREFECT," Molly said fondly. (Probably getting him an owl as reward > >for becoming a prefect was at least partly her idea.) She's proud of > >his twelve OWLs (and yells her head off at the twins for not getting > >enough OWLs), being a prefect, and being Head Boy, and and getting a > >job at the Ministry is what she wants all her sons to do. It seems to > >me that she favors him and is attempting to spoil him. > > I agree. It appears to me that Percy's seen by his mother as a ticket to > financial stability from a high paying position at the ministry. > > Nathan It looks like Percy is fulfilling Molly's ambition and/or Molly is living vicariously through Percy. But I don't think Molly yelling at Fred and George for their lack of OWLS as being mean. I think she knows they have the smarts to do better but didn't live up to their potential. Anyhow, maybe working for the Ministry is 'the' occupation in the wizardry world. It has prestige and influence and a decent salary. What mother doesn't secretly desire her children to have influential, well paying professions? Working as a curse breaker for Gringotts or studying dragon's in Romania might be considered 'blue collar'. Who knows maybe Molly gives Percy these extras because she thinks it'll make the younger children work harder. :-) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 8 16:02:28 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:02:28 -0000 Subject: Mr. Weasley In-Reply-To: <93bv57+4al1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93coak+u1dt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8792 naama wrote: > No way! Palin is much too sweet. He has the kindest face and IMO he > does goofy-boneheaded-amiable-dumb even better than apoplectic ("He's > pinin' for the fjords"). He would make a perfect Arthur Weasely. > > Naama Agree, agree! Michael Palin would be a nice Arthur. I picture Arthur as being kindly and slightly goofy/eccentric, not goofy/eccentric and slightly kind. For Nearly Headless Nick, I picture a very aristocratic, dignified man. :-) Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 8 16:06:38 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 16:06:38 -0000 Subject: Minerva McGonagall In-Reply-To: <20010108033506.19168.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <93coie+7kt7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8793 Star wrote: > As we are usually discusing the main characters I haven't heard much on people's viees of some of the teachers (or maybe I wasn't here during those discusions if you had them) but I really like Minerva and wish that something extrodinaryly un-characteristic would happen to her to maybe explain her choice of lifestlye more. I think it would be neat if Hermione was having problems with her family or something that happened at home and Minerva tried to help her ending up with them having a friendship and Hermione(a older, physically mature and stunning Hermione who has learned to use her natural curl in a loosecurl hair style that looks great and brings attention to her pretty face previously not really noticed...k i'm getting of the point so back to what i was saying 3..2..1) finds out about the 'real' Minerva who is currently in hiding and relays it to Harry. I know that would never happen as the story is about Harry and none of that really concerns him but still, ...I also think that despite the fact that Albus is 150 and Minerva is 70 they could have good relationship beyond co-workers and perhapes friends. Well that was really pointless and I'm sure none of you really care about all that I just like Minerva. You know i could write sooo many fanfics with all the ideas i have, the good ones not the one I alluded to, but i never can get them out on paper the way I want, oh well I'm just rambling on so i'm goin to shut up and stop being stupid and say goodnight, > ~Star~ I like McGonagall too. She reminds me of one of my favorite college professors. But I do hope a younger female professor is brought into Hogwarts. She could be professor every boy has a crush on, including Ron and Harry. :-) Milz From Amy_kuras at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 18:00:30 2001 From: Amy_kuras at yahoo.com (Amy_kuras at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 18:00:30 -0000 Subject: The Weasleys/Fanfic/Kid's Poll In-Reply-To: <937sk7+kv1d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93cv7u+viel@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8794 - > Of course, I'm thoroughly embarrassed afterward, and do teacherly > things to make it up ("instead of spelling review, let's have a brain > bowl"). Kids are forgiving creatures. What district do you teach in? You sound like a really good teacher! > > Where does the "so-and-so is going to turn Dark" stuff get started? > > We've seen speculation about Percy, Gred and Feorge, and > Dumbledore. I suspect it comes from post-Vietnam cynicism and from > TV and movies, where it's used as a plot device to add punch and > a "twist" to a weak story. > > This is not to say that a good character won't have a Judas moment... > as a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised. Perhaps Percy will fit > the bill, but my money's on a different character. > I agree--I think Percy has far too strong a sense of family loyalty--the Weasleys seem to be a pretty loyal bunch. I can see him pulling a Fudge and refusing to believe Voldemort has treturned, but once confronted with evidence he will land on the right side. > Nah. I just have students with a weird sense of humor. I agree with that too_- I think kids, more so than grownups, find the Dursely's antics funny. Adults (at least this one) cringe and say "do they HAVE no Child Protective Services in England?? " Grownups realize other adults truly can treat children that horribly--to kids, at least those who areb't in such abusive situations, it's funny. And they are a little over-drawn, which fits that broad, funny humor kids like! From bkdelong at pobox.com Mon Jan 8 18:23:08 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:23:08 -0500 Subject: Bertie Botts online and shipping internationally. In-Reply-To: <93cv7u+viel@eGroups.com> References: <937sk7+kv1d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010108132235.05433820@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8795 Hi all - Editors at The Leaky Cauldron have finally found a place where you can order Bertie Botts' Every Flavor Beans online: http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter.htm . You can use Visa, Mastercard, Discover, American Express or even PayPal to buy them and have them shipped anywhere in the world. Good news for those of you in the UK and elsewhere waiting for the beans to appear. We're pretty psyched. For more details, check out http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org. From foxmoth at qnet.com Mon Jan 8 19:06:03 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 19:06:03 -0000 Subject: Wizard Paradise (a filk) In-Reply-To: <93bglp+41ob@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93d32r+k03o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8796 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Rosemary wrote: > > > > WIZARD PARADISE (to the tune of Gangsta Paradise) a > filk by Pippin > > *with apologies to Coolio and Weird Al* > > Pippin, you nearly made me fall out of my chair! Two of my favorite > things--Harry Potter and rap--united. I couldn't have done it. I > would have never thought of it. My admiration for you has just been > raised another notch. > (blushes) and thanks to Marcus too. > > Got a werewolf for Defense, got a ghost for History > > We'll go to any lengths, to solve a mystery > > Combining the problems of inner-city life (including poor educational > structures) with Scooby Doo refs (every rapper I've seen interviewed > loves cartoons and video games) earns you "mad propz". The second line comes right out of CoS Tom: "From everything Ginny had told me about you, I knew you would go to any lengths to solve the mystery-- particularly if one of your best friends was attacked." CoS Ch.17. Which, combined with your comment, leads me to imagine Voldie as a Scooby Doo fan, curled up on the sofa in front of his magically modified TV set, with Nagini and an ever-replenishing bowl of popcorn, watching a Scooby marathon on Cartoon Network...the mind boggles. > I *did* > have a Harry Potter rap/song/poem assignment designed before I had to > table the unit... too bad. To go OT for a moment...have you considered the possibility of Poe's The Raven as a rap song? Pippin From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 8 19:38:12 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:38:12 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OWLs & NEWTs vs US system References: Message-ID: <012501c079aa$8cee42c0$2540063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8797 Note : GCSE has existed since 1988, not 1984. I should know- i was a guinea pig !! Michelle From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 20:00:57 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 20:00:57 -0000 Subject: Percy and the Dark Side In-Reply-To: <93bd6b+sb8e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93d69p+8gtt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8798 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: "IMO, it may be that the Dementors' attempt to apply "the kiss" to Harry (toward the end of PoA) may not have been (as Fudge seems to have assumed) an instance of their being a bit over-zealous. After all, they don't seem to have "accidentally" gone after any other "innocent bystanders" during all the time they were stationed at Hogwarts. I think the Dementors, being Voldy's longtime allies, sense that Harry is their natural enemy, and responded accordingly. I think we'll see at least one other major Dementor attack against Harry before the series concludes." It was fairly convenient that Barty Jr. was silenced when he was, too. The objection to that would be "How did the Dementors know to silence Junior?" Any Darksider would know to whack Harry, but how did they know enough not to let Crouch fall into Dumbeldore's hands? As you say, they didn't "kiss" people at random. I have no doubt we'll see the Dementors again. BTW, your filk is hysterical. My daughters and I get lost somewhere singing the second half of "Snape." Is there an instrmental bridge in there? Too bad the MIDIs can't have a "follow the bouncing ball" lyric line. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 21:06:05 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 21:06:05 -0000 Subject: AP tests (was OWLs & NEWTs vs US system) ot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93da3t+e6r1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8799 John, Nice explanation of the test systems. I do have one comment: --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > An AP (Advanced Placement) exam is what clever Americans take for university > entrance. The SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) is so unbelievably basic (it's > multiple choice, for goodness' sake!) that decent colleges want more than > that. I have friends doing APs in World History, English Lit, etc. My > university (St Andrews, which has a large proportion of American students) > counts an AP as half an A-level. IMHO it's more like a third of an A-level, > especially considering that a British student with A-levels can usually > enter into Year 2 of an American BA program. Actually, AP exams look good on university applications, but are not entrance requirements. The SAT, as you said, and the ACT, are both general knowlege tests used for university entrance, and I'd have to agree, they're pretty sad. An AP test is basically an exam that exempts you from a given university course. If you make a certain score (out of 5, but requirements vary by university), you recieve credit as if you had taken that course at the university. I guess it really doesn't matter, but I thought someone might be interested. kimberly From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 21:46:38 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 21:46:38 -0000 Subject: gringotts vaults (was: British Money/ Wizarding Money) In-Reply-To: <93ccrt+oabb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93dcfu+isq6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8800 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: > Wizard money: > > I also asked the other chatters how large they thought a Gringott's > vault was. Guesses ranged from the size of a wall safe to the size > of a small room, but there was some agreement that the vaults were > probably as large as they need to be, expanding or contracting > according to the contents. > > Does Harry have the foggiest idea what amount of money is in his > vault? When he has withdrawn money, he seems to just scoop handfuls > of coins into a bag, which suggests that there is so much money in > the vault he doesn't have to bother about the amount he is taking. > Don't the goblin bankers have to monitor deposits and withdrawals by > their customers and issue statements, or is all that done magically? > > Neil Maybe the vaults are like safety deposit boxes. In that case you can put whatever you want inside - jewelry, money, documents, etc. That would explain why they have to go to their vault instead of withdrawing money at a counter like we would at an ordinary muggle bank, and why no special account was made of what/how much Harry took out. Also it gels with the way the stone was stored in a Gringotts vault, and maybe even Crookshanks being able to get to Black's money, if he had the key or code or whatever to the vault and a note or something? From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:02:21 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:02:21 -0500 Subject: Book 3- Snape Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8801 Y.Y. wrote: >On page 204, US hardcover, Fudge says (speaking to Rosmerta in Hosmeade >about Black): "Not many people are aware that the Potters knew You-Know-Who >was after them. Dumbledore, who was of course working tirelessly against >You-Know-Who, had a number of useful spies. One of the tipped him off, and >he alerted James and Lily at once." >Does anyone think that this useful spy was Snape? I do. Amy Z _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:06:25 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:06:25 -0500 Subject: Book 3- Sirius Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8802 Heidi wrote: >But I have a different question - one which hasn't been asked at all, at >least >since I joined the list in June - Why, after Sirius broke into Gryffendor >Tower, >didn't they use Hermione's time turner for one turn, stand right inside the >portrait & nab him when he came in? You could ask this about a lot of disasters--just as Harry does when he and Hermione go back and he's tempted to interfere when she finds Scabbers, when the Invisibility Cloak is lying by the tree, etc. Why don't wizards just go back and "fix" these events, since they know how to travel in time? I think they don't because they wisely know that you can't mess with just the bits about the past you don't like. Events are way too entangled for that. It's not just that you might actually kill one of your selves, as Hermione warns. You might do a lot of harm just by changing the one thing you intend to change, because of all the unintended consequences. I think about the event Harry would most like to change. He could go back 13 years (using a simple Rotation Charm to speed up the process!!--) and save his parents, perhaps by convincing them to stick with Sirius as their Secret-Keeper. Even if they heeded the warning of this person who claimed to be their 14-year-old son-from-the-future and didn't think it was some diabolical trick by Voldemort, what would result? They would live, Harry would grow up a nice, normal wizard kid, and, among other things, Voldemort--who in the new timeline never got close enough to Harry to try the Kedavra curse on him--would remain in power. Or to go to your example: what if they HAD gone back just long enough to catch Sirius? Would Harry, Remus et al ever have learned about Pettigrew's guilt and Sirius's innocence? Would Sirius have escaped or would he have had his soul sucked out by the Dementors? Maybe, but once you start to mess with time you change the way things go. Dumbledore was playing with fire when he sent Hermione & Harry back. No one really knows what they are doing when they change the past--time travel stories are full of this warning. That's why it's not surprising that Trelawney can't often see the future clearly (though she should at least stop pretending then, shouldn't she?). So, isn't this the stuff of fanfiction? Fanfic writers, take it away! What would have happened if . . . Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:07:28 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:07:28 -0500 Subject: Voldemort sexist in hiring practices? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8803 >Re: Lestranges specifically torturers of Longbottom's--I don't remember >them being designated as Crouch Jr.'s fellow accused at the trial. I >remember Sirius mentioned them as people who hung out with Snape and became >DEs. I think most people assume them to be them because Mrs. Lestrange is >the only female death eater so far. (New thread topic: Voldemort sexist in >hiring practices?) LOL! Nah--women are just less corruptible than men. ;-) Amy Z _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:10:21 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:10:21 -0500 Subject: Lestranges' crime Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8804 >Steve "So much for 'Constant Vigilance'" Vander Ark Steve, you may NOT apologize for anything in that lexicon. It's fantabulous. I think Storm must be right that *somewhere* the Lestranges are specifically linked to the torture of the Longbottoms. Otherwise why are we all dead sure that they're the ones? I just went through an experience like this. I was in a store, flipping through the WB page-a-day calendar, and thought, "Okay, if they don't have something special for Harry's birthday, they're complete nitwits" (you may have noticed that I devote an unhealthy amount of my life to disparaging the churners-out of merchandise . . . while stopping to look at it every time I go into a bookstore, natch), and you know, they DIDN'T! Or so I thought. But before I tossed it aside in utter disgust, I flipped through a few more pages and there it was: **July 25**: Harry's 11th birthday. I was 100% sure they were wrong but for the life of me I couldn't think how I KNEW it was July 31st. Had I dreamed it up? I just reread GoF and he only says "I was born in July." Thought it must be in PS but couldn't find it in the few minutes I had to skim the relevant bits in the bookstore. Today I got PS from the library and found the incontrovertible proof, to my great relief. Sometimes you think you know something for certain but it was actually a leap of the imagination--usually, though, you're right. Of course, none of that explains how WB managed to screw it up. But I must admit I'm pleased. Amy Z, who hasn't caved in and bought a piece of merchandise yet... ...but who wouldn't say no to a Golden Snitch keychain ----------------------------------------------------------------- "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ----------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From htand at carltonfields.com Mon Jan 8 22:24:28 2001 From: htand at carltonfields.com (Tandy, Heidi) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:24:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lestranges' crime Message-ID: <8749E5838BD3D411A76E00A0C9B4255501366F@CGEXCH2> No: HPFGUIDX 8805 > I just went through an experience like this. I was in a > store, flipping > through the WB page-a-day calendar, and thought, "Okay, if > they don't have > something special for Harry's birthday, they're complete > nitwits" (you may > have noticed that I devote an unhealthy amount of my life to > disparaging the > churners-out of merchandise . . . while stopping to look at > it every time I > go into a bookstore, natch), and you know, they DIDN'T! Or > so I thought. > But before I tossed it aside in utter disgust, I flipped > through a few more > pages and there it was: **July 25**: Harry's 11th birthday. > I was 100% > sure they were wrong but for the life of me I couldn't think > how I KNEW it > was July 31st. Had I dreamed it up? I just reread GoF and > he only says "I > was born in July." Thought it must be in PS but couldn't > find it in the few > minutes I had to skim the relevant bits in the bookstore. > Today I got PS > from the library and found the incontrovertible proof, to my > great relief. > Sometimes you think you know something for certain but it was > actually a > leap of the imagination--usually, though, you're right. > Urgh! I just looked at this and you are completely right, and they are completely idiotic! What a screw-up (apart from the fact that this year would actually be Mr Potter's *21st* birthday) - to get the DATE wrong is just unjustifiable. It's a bigger boondoggle than Page 667 of the Us edition of GoF. Grrr. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:40:21 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:40:21 -0000 Subject: Lycanthropic Research In-Reply-To: <004501c07967$f42c24e0$ec2b07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <93dfkl+rb6e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8806 "Dinah" wrote: > I just found this website and thought I'd share it with all fellow Remus-Lovers . > > http://www.swampfox.demon.co.uk/utlah/humour/index.html Caius, are you listening? You should send them your RL filk! BTW I looked up all of them on the Lexicon since so many were before my time on this chat, and now I keep singing the Death-Eaters' Mickey Mouse song to myself. Move over, Annette Funicello! Amy Z. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:40:55 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:40:55 -0000 Subject: The Weasleys/Shameless Fanfic Plug In-Reply-To: <93cv7u+viel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93dfln+ar35@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8807 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amy_kuras at y... wrote: > Kids are forgiving creatures. > > What district do you teach in? You sound like a really good teacher! Detroit Public Schools. ;) > > This is not to say that a good character won't have a Judas moment... as a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised. Perhaps Percy will fit the bill, but my money's on a different character. > > > I agree--I think Percy has far too strong a sense of family loyalty- -the Weasleys seem to be a pretty loyal bunch. I can see him pulling a Fudge and refusing to believe Voldemort has returned, but once confronted with evidence he will land on the right side. That's right. Canon seems to show that they're pretty close-knit. I don't think JKR would have spent so much time developing their characters if they wouldn't be central to the culmination of the series. Speaking of Weasleys, my next chapter's up. I'm donning my asbestos suit and umbrella to counteract the flames and assorted flying objects. Trouble in Paradise 04 -- For Auld Lang Syne http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=169293 Hey, what can I say? Shame is for rookies. :) --Ebony From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:46:35 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:46:35 -0000 Subject: Minerva McGonagall In-Reply-To: <93coie+7kt7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93dg0b+p66k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8808 milz wrote: > I like McGonagall too. She reminds me of one of my favorite college > professors. But I do hope a younger female professor is brought into > Hogwarts. She could be professor every boy has a crush on, including > Ron and Harry. JKR said that there will be a female DADA professor. So you just might get your wish! Keep one month in The Babes of Hogwarts free, everyone . . . Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:52:57 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:52:57 -0000 Subject: gringotts vaults (was: British Money/ Wizarding Money) In-Reply-To: <93dcfu+isq6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93dgc9+sn16@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8809 > Maybe the vaults are like safety deposit boxes. In that case you can > put whatever you want inside - jewelry, money, documents, etc. That > would explain why they have to go to their vault instead of > withdrawing money at a counter like we would at an ordinary muggle > bank, and why no special account was made of what/how much Harry took > out. Also it gels with the way the stone was stored in a Gringotts > vault, and maybe even Crookshanks being able to get to Black's money, > if he had the key or code or whatever to the vault and a note or > something? Great thought, Kimberly! This makes a lot of sense. I'm sure the goblins wouldn't blink at a hyperintelligent cat going to fetch the necessary money. Still, here in the US and in the UK too, I imagine, an escaped convict would have a hard time getting money out of his bank account! The FBI would freeze it. Gringotts: the Swiss bank of the wizarding world. Amy Z. From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:59:16 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 8 Jan 2001 14:59:16 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Minerva McGonagall Message-ID: <20010108225916.3915.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8810 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:59:54 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 22:59:54 -0000 Subject: Another question about the British school system In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93dgpa+bqhu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8811 All the time discussions got me wondering about my original interpretation of "Double" classes, as in "Double Potions." I assumed it meant twice as long, like a lab. Now I'm wondering whether it means "shared with another house." Is this a common term in British schools? Amy Z -------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone -------------------------------------------------------- From john at walton.to Mon Jan 8 23:09:36 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:09:36 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another question about the British school system In-Reply-To: <93dgpa+bqhu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8812 aiz24 at hotmail.com wrote: > All the time discussions got me wondering about my original > interpretation of "Double" classes, as in "Double Potions." I assumed > it meant twice as long, like a lab. Now I'm wondering whether it > means "shared with another house." Is this a common term in British > schools? Nope, I assumed "Double Potions" to be a back-to-back class. We had double everything during both GCSEs and A-levels. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Don't lose your right to vote -- let Jeb Bush take it away from you! ======================================== From relliott at jvlnet.com Mon Jan 8 23:15:15 2001 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 17:15:15 -0600 Subject: Neville (my theory) References: <978947374.37495@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000a01c079c8$de8ee260$9cb191d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8813 > Subject: OWLS/Neville > "A small, sorta unanswerable thing, page 213: "He watched, as though > somebody was playing him a piece of film, Sirius Black blasting > Peter Pettigrew ( who resembled Neville Longbottom ) into a > thousand pieces." Why did JKR put that part in parentheses about > Neville there? Many times, little things that we just overlooked > at first has ended up that ended up being a forshadowing of some > sort... Can this be one? If it is, in what way? Any theories? > It's true that we don't know much about Neville except that he > seems to be really really clumsy. Is Neville hiding something? Or > maybe it's something that even Neville doesn't know about... I > don't know... I'm kinda just blabbing." I have a theroy, I may be completely off base but... Maybe in future books, Neville is approached by the dark side to betray Harry the same way Peter was to betray James and Lily. The difference being that Neville will have enough courage to stand-up to the Dark Lord. Neville has suffered directly (ie his parents untimely demise) from Lord Voldermort and his followers. Neville may end up pay the ultimate sacrifice for his friends. 'You don't understand!' whined Pettigrew. 'He would hav killed me, Sirius!' 'THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!, roarded Black. 'DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!' From john at walton.to Mon Jan 8 23:17:50 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:17:50 +0000 Subject: [news] Who's Who at Hogwarts Zoo Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8814 ::Welsh voice:: And now, the news from the BBC. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1106000/1106911.stm Monday, 8 January, 2001, 18:34 GMT Harry Potter author joins Who's Who Harry Potter creator JK Rowling has capped an extraordinary year by being named in the prestigious Who's Who directory for the first time. The Harry Potter series has made the 34-year-old single mother a multi-millionaire and her creation a cultural icon for children all over the world. It is believed the name Harry has entered the top 10 names in Britain because of the huge popularity of her books. The writer, who began her literary career just four years ago, had an annual income of more than ?20m in 1999, making her Britain's top earning woman, according to The Mail on Sunday. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, the first of her four books, is currently being made into a film and the author is expected to receive her OBE from the Queen in February. ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to The last time somebody listened to a Bush, a whole bunch of folks wandered in the desert for 40 years. ======================================== From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 8 23:21:12 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 8 Jan 2001 15:21:12 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OWLs and NEWTs Message-ID: <20010108232112.2312.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8815 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From burrow_gurl at yahoo.com Mon Jan 8 23:24:57 2001 From: burrow_gurl at yahoo.com (Steph (Burrow Gurl)) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 23:24:57 -0000 Subject: Book banning Message-ID: <93di89+ajh3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8816 Hello everyone. I'm new to this group, but I was told that it would be good for me to join because of this question. I need a little help with something. I am doing a speech on Harry Potter book banning, and I need reasons as to why the books should not be banned. If you would fill this out, I would be greatly apprieciative. First of all, name, age, and m/f. Number 2- Do you believe in book banning? Why or why not. Number 3- Do you think that the Harry Potter books should be banned for the various reasons that they have been challenged for? Why or why not. Number 4- What do the Harry Potter books do for kids and adults? What are the educational/entertainmental benefits gained or expanded when you read the books? If you could fill this out and send it to me here or in a regular email, it would help a lot. I need the answers within 2 weeks so that I have time to prepare the speech. (My first meet is Feb. 10th) If you want, you can send this to your friends and have them fill it out. The more the better! Thanks so much, you made my life a lot easier. Email me at burrow_gurl at yahoo.com. Thanks a bunch! Steph From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 8 23:37:00 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 8 Jan 2001 15:37:00 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why was Voldemort after Harry?/info on this club (was Hi... =)) Message-ID: <20010108233700.23002.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8817 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Jan 8 23:41:53 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 8 Jan 2001 15:41:53 -0800 Subject: Ebony's fic! Message-ID: <20010108234153.3955.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8818 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Jan 8 23:45:51 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 8 Jan 2001 15:45:51 -0800 Subject: merchandise (was Re: Lestranges' crime) Message-ID: <20010108234551.4023.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8819 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Mon Jan 8 23:50:08 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:50:08 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another question about the British school system References: <93dgpa+bqhu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006901c079cd$cf99beb0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8820 Yes, it's very common to have two periods of the same subject back-to-back, and this is a Double. Simon. > All the time discussions got me wondering about my original > interpretation of "Double" classes, as in "Double Potions." I assumed > it meant twice as long, like a lab. Now I'm wondering whether it > means "shared with another house." Is this a common term in British > schools? > > Amy Z From relliott at jvlnet.com Tue Jan 9 01:19:34 2001 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2001 19:19:34 -0600 Subject: A thought about Prof. Trelawney References: <977618980.47261@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000401c079da$3a55b220$5db191d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8821 Maybe I'm off but here goes. We have 2 primary ways to refer to Lord Voldermort: Lord Voldermort and He-who-must-not-be-named. Others such as Draco Malfoy, Lucius Malfoy, Crouch, Barty J.R., ('evil' or potentially evil wizards) call Voldermort the 'Dark Lord'. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Here is the dilema: Why does Professor Trelawney, in her prediction in PoA Chapter 16, refer to him as the 'Dark Lord?' Was she on the other side or was it meerly an accident? What are your thoughts? From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 9 01:23:10 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 20:23:10 -0500 Subject: Free Draco Action Figure (Grown Up Version) References: <20010106070927.25460.qmail@nw128.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <3A5A67FE.E4D563D5@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8822 Okay, so it's not really Draco. It's Spike, but it *looks* like a Grown Up Draco Action Figure As Designed by the Inept Warner Bros Artists would likely look. and it's FREE at http://www.fandomshop.com/spike/ (if you buy $50 of merchandise - and yes, they do have a few pieces of HP stuff, at http://www.fandomshop.com/store/search/index.asp?x_store=aoprod&x_key=harry_potter&x_type=Statues The offer expires next tuesday, so buy now or miss it! From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 01:31:42 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 01:31:42 -0000 Subject: A thought about Prof. Trelawney In-Reply-To: <000401c079da$3a55b220$5db191d8@computer> Message-ID: <93dplu+d5ud@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8823 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rachelle Elliott" wrote: > Maybe I'm off but here goes. > > We have 2 primary ways to refer to Lord Voldermort: Lord Voldermort and > He-who-must-not-be-named. Others such as Draco Malfoy, Lucius Malfoy, > Crouch, Barty J.R., ('evil' or potentially evil wizards) call Voldermort the > 'Dark Lord'. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Here is the dilema: Why > does Professor Trelawney, in her prediction in PoA Chapter 16, refer to him > as the 'Dark Lord?' Was she on the other side or was it meerly an accident? > > What are your thoughts? It took me a minute to remember why I was so certain of this, but the baddies aren't the only ones who call him that. In CoS, when Lockhart has the 'cherubs' going around delivering Valentine messages, the singing telegram type one that Harry gets from Ginny calls Harry 'the hero that conquered the Dark Lord!'. Of course it's conceiveable to argue that this doesn't prove anything as at that time Ginny was under the influence of the Dark Lord himself, and thus an unwitting baddie... But then if only baddies used that appelation, then someone would probably have heard that and gotten suspicious, I would think. Ok, I'm thinking in circles now, so I'll give up before my brain gets dizzy and falls down. -kimberly, who's only a little lightheaded From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 9 01:46:11 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:46:11 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A thought about Prof. Trelawney In-Reply-To: <000401c079da$3a55b220$5db191d8@computer> References: <977618980.47261@egroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010108174324.00c51520@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8824 At 07:19 PM 1/8/01 -0600, Rachelle Elliott wrote: >We have 2 primary ways to refer to Lord Voldermort: Lord Voldermort and >He-who-must-not-be-named. Others such as Draco Malfoy, Lucius Malfoy, >Crouch, Barty J.R., ('evil' or potentially evil wizards) call Voldermort the >'Dark Lord'. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Here is the dilema: Why >does Professor Trelawney, in her prediction in PoA Chapter 16, refer to him >as the 'Dark Lord?' Was she on the other side or was it meerly an accident? Snape also calls him "The Dark Lord". I think the term is used by those who fear him enough not to say his name (I'm sure even his supporters fear him) but think "You-Know-Who" and "He-Who-Must" are corny. -- Dave From msmacgoo at one.net.au Tue Jan 9 01:42:20 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffes MacGoo) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 01:42:20 -0000 Subject: Free Draco Action Figure (Grown Up Version) In-Reply-To: <3A5A67FE.E4D563D5@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <93dq9s+s1ds@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8825 Ooh yes! I can see Spike as Draco (or Draco as Spike) storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > Okay, so it's not really Draco. > It's Spike, but it *looks* like a Grown Up Draco Action Figure As Designed by the > Inept Warner Bros Artists would likely look. > and it's FREE at http://www.fandomshop.com/spike/ (if you buy $50 of merchandise - > and yes, they do have a few pieces of HP stuff, at > http://www.fandomshop.com/store/search/index.asp?x_store=aoprod&x_key= harry_potter&x_type=Statues > > The offer expires next tuesday, so buy now or miss it! From alw at wilsonllp.com Tue Jan 9 02:40:39 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (alw at wilsonllp.com) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 02:40:39 -0000 Subject: Another question about the British school system In-Reply-To: <93dgpa+bqhu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93dtn7+c4qp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8826 I feel pretty sure that "Double" classes are just twice as long as the other classes. Most of the time when they're referring to their schedules, it seems like the "Double" classes are more than an hour long - I think they even refer to Double Potions as being at least two hours long. Which makes sense if you think about it - an hour doesn't seem to be long enough to do potions or herbology. And then you also have Care of Magical Creatures - Harry and company have that with the Slytherin (although, as an elective class, I never quite got why all of Gryffindor signed up and all of Slytherin signed up) and that only seems to be an hour. Amy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aiz24 at h... wrote: > All the time discussions got me wondering about my original > interpretation of "Double" classes, as in "Double Potions." I assumed > it meant twice as long, like a lab. Now I'm wondering whether it > means "shared with another house." Is this a common term in British > schools? > > Amy Z > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. > --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone > -------------------------------------------------------- From alw at wilsonllp.com Tue Jan 9 02:57:40 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (alw at wilsonllp.com) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 02:57:40 -0000 Subject: A thought about Prof. Trelawney In-Reply-To: <000401c079da$3a55b220$5db191d8@computer> Message-ID: <93dun4+thmh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8827 Hmm, now I'm going to have to go back and read all the books again for any reference to Voldermort. Somehow, I don't think Trelawney is a bad guy, but it does give you pause...of course, I have quite a few questions about Voldermort's name all together. Like who started the whole "He who must not be named" and "You know who". To me, it seems like that bit started in Voldermort's camp as a way to increase fear. Either that, or Voldermort's name has more meaning than we already know - that speaking his name is a way to curse him or something (I know, I know - that's way out in left field somewhere). Still, there may be something to the Dark Lord thing, but then Professor Trelawney wasn't exactly herself when she was calling him the Dark Lord, was she? Amy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rachelle Elliott" wrote: > Maybe I'm off but here goes. > > We have 2 primary ways to refer to Lord Voldermort: Lord Voldermort and > He-who-must-not-be-named. Others such as Draco Malfoy, Lucius Malfoy, > Crouch, Barty J.R., ('evil' or potentially evil wizards) call Voldermort the > 'Dark Lord'. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Here is the dilema: Why > does Professor Trelawney, in her prediction in PoA Chapter 16, refer to him > as the 'Dark Lord?' Was she on the other side or was it meerly an accident? > > What are your thoughts? From fefe at fazekas.hu Tue Jan 9 03:42:21 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (Fefe ) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 03:42:21 -0000 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <93e1at+5mr4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8828 Hi all Harry fans ! I'm new on this list, so i think i should write something about myself. Probably i don't have to say that i'm a Harry fan :) I don't know if i belong to the category "grown-up" because i'm only 20 years old, and i think (and hope) that in my soul, i'm going to always remain a kid :) Excuse me for my bad English, i'm Hungarian and i only learned English for a few years in school, but i hope that you're going to understand me. I'm studying in the Technical University of Budapest and i work as a software developer to get a little money. Despite the efforts of my teachers, i still like computers, i like cars (i own a 10 years old Soviet car, and i love it :), and of course i love reading. I read this group for a couple of weeks, and i found it interesting so i decided to start writing. At first, i was surprised to see the "war" of the Hr/H and Hr/R shippers. Until i found this group, i never thought of being a shipper. But now, i'm kinda Hr/H shipper, despite all logical arguments of Hr/R shippers (love is not logical at all, is it ? :). But i hope that the following books are not going to be filled with the love affairs of the triangle. Btw J.K. said somewhere that Ginny "will play more of a role in Book Five". This may also affect the relationships. I have also never heard of fanfics before. At first, i decided to not to read them, because the real Harry Potter is who J.K. is writing about. But i'm so addicted to Harry that i started reading them. I check ff.net from time to time, and sometimes i find something good or funny. I also thought that maybe i could also write some fanfic, but i'm afraid that i'm not good enough in English to write an enjoyable story. Maybe i'll try it, if i'll have a really good idea. OK, bye for now, i think i should sleep, it's 4:36 AM here :) Fefe From mornerka at yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 03:43:01 2001 From: mornerka at yahoo.com (mornerka at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 03:43:01 -0000 Subject: Neville (my theory) In-Reply-To: <000a01c079c8$de8ee260$9cb191d8@computer> Message-ID: <93e1c5+lk7i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8829 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rachelle Elliott" wrote: > > Subject: OWLS/Neville > > > "A small, sorta unanswerable thing, page 213: "He watched, as though > > somebody was playing him a piece of film, Sirius Black blasting > > Peter Pettigrew ( who resembled Neville Longbottom ) into a > > thousand pieces." Why did JKR put that part in parentheses about > > Neville there? Many times, little things that we just overlooked > > at first has ended up that ended up being a forshadowing of some > > sort... Can this be one? If it is, in what way? Any theories? > > It's true that we don't know much about Neville except that he > > seems to be really really clumsy. Is Neville hiding something? Or > > maybe it's something that even Neville doesn't know about... I > > don't know... I'm kinda just blabbing." > > I have a theroy, I may be completely off base but... Maybe in future books, > Neville is approached by the dark side to betray Harry the same way Peter > was to betray James and Lily. The difference being that Neville will have > enough courage to stand-up to the Dark Lord. Neville has suffered directly > (ie his parents untimely demise) from Lord Voldermort and his followers. > Neville may end up pay the ultimate sacrifice for his friends. > > 'You don't understand!' whined Pettigrew. 'He would hav killed me, Sirius!' > 'THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED!, roarded Black. 'DIED RATHER THAN BETRAY YOUR > FRIENDS, AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!' Wow. That's a great theory. I hadn't thought about that before! It would definately explain why Neville has become more and more prominent as the books went on. From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 05:23:28 2001 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:23:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: merchandise (was Re: Lestranges' crime) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8830 > > > who hasn't caved in and bought a piece of merchandise yet...but who >wouldn't say no to a Golden Snitch keychain > >Oh my goodness, you're a better woman than I! (I think my husband is >getting me the new Erised Mirror - yay!) - Do they really have a mirror? I actually bought the wall calender and the Hermione box and Book end when they were on sale at Barnes and Nobles like the day after Christmas. I almost bought the entire collection before i realized that i have no where to put it, and lots of it was actually kind of ugly....-Kassie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 05:34:38 2001 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:34:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Another question about the British school system Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8831 >I feel pretty sure that "Double" classes are just twice as long as >the other classes. Most of the time when they're referring to their >schedules, it seems like the "Double" classes are more than an hour >long - I think they even refer to Double Potions as being at least >two hours long. Which makes sense if you think about it - an hour >doesn't seem to be long enough to do potions or herbology. > >And then you also have Care of Magical Creatures - Harry and company >have that with the Slytherin (although, as an elective class, I never >quite got why all of Gryffindor signed up and all of Slytherin signed >up) and that only seems to be an hour. Maybe the Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws have it together, or maybe they are just not couragous enough for such a scary class like Care of Magical Creatures.... Aaahhh look at the scary flubberworm... Ohhh no its eating my book. Now its eating my hand. Nevermind its just eating a bit of lettuce that i had in mmy hand.. Okay now seriously, i bet that if they have a non double class, it is used for taking notes, much like the whole lecture/lab system that works so (not) wonderfully. -Kassie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 05:40:04 2001 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:40:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OWLs and NEWTs Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8832 >I've always had an interesting thought on a way that the OWLs and NEWTs >could be set up. When they take the tests their could be a test that they >have to take regardless of what classes they are takin and each test would >be worth 100 points and on each test no one could score over that amout. >Then after the tests were graded all the points a student earned would be >added up and for every so many pointsthat get an OWL/NEWT. For those >peoplel like Hermione and Percy who take more electives then they have to >and are studious would get more points because they would score well on a >greater amout of test then just hopefully really really well in the subject >they are taking. Does that make any sense? I know it's a little weird but >it's sorta neat. I thought of them as more like the MEAPs (don't ask me what they stand for) You can score either a 1, 2 , 3, or 4 on each test, and there is a seperate test for each subject. If you score enough 3s and 4s you get a scholarship, The Michigan Merit award or something, I never actually took them, being in private school until senior year, but most of my friends took them and told me all about them and they all have money for college, while i am going into debt. -Kassie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From john at walton.to Tue Jan 9 06:16:33 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 06:16:33 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OWLs and NEWTs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8833 Kassie Ostrander wrote: > > >> I've always had an interesting thought on a way that the OWLs and NEWTs >> could be set up. When they take the tests their could be a test that they >> have to take regardless of what classes they are takin and each test would >> be worth 100 points and on each test no one could score over that amout. >> Then after the tests were graded all the points a student earned would be >> added up and for every so many pointsthat get an OWL/NEWT. For those >> peoplel like Hermione and Percy who take more electives then they have to >> and are studious would get more points because they would score well on a >> greater amout of test then just hopefully really really well in the subject >> they are taking. Does that make any sense? I know it's a little weird but >> it's sorta neat. > > > I thought of them as more like the MEAPs (don't ask me what they stand for) > You can score either a 1, 2 , 3, or 4 on each test, and there is a seperate > test for each subject. If you score enough 3s and 4s you get a scholarship, > The Michigan Merit award or something, I never actually took them, being > in private school until senior year, but most of my friends took them and > told me all about them and they all have money for college, while i am going > into debt. > -Kassie Good theories, but all the evidence points to them being directly related to GCSEs (General Certificate of Secondary Education) and A-levels (A is for Advanced) which we in the UK take at 16 and 18, respectively. The marking scheme is on a scale of 1 to 100, with 50% being a pass (at grade C GCSE and grade E A-level) and 80-85%+ in both being an A (GCSE also has the option of A* at 90%, kinda like an A+ for our American friends). ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Don't throw away your vote -- let Katherine Harris do it for you! ======================================== From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 06:41:13 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 06:41:13 -0000 Subject: Classes/would you want this for your kid? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93ebq9+lf33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8834 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kassie Ostrander" wrote: > > >I feel pretty sure that "Double" classes are just twice as long as > >the other classes. Most of the time when they're referring to their > >schedules, it seems like the "Double" classes are more than an hour > >long - I think they even refer to Double Potions as being at least > >two hours long. Which makes sense if you think about it - an hour > >doesn't seem to be long enough to do potions or herbology. > > Ah, I never thought of that. A lot of other classes seem to be lab as well, like Care of Magical Creatures and Transfiguration. But we never do see a single potions class with just a lecture; it always seems like they're actually using the equipment and doing experiments. > >And then you also have Care of Magical Creatures - Harry and company > >have that with the Slytherin (although, as an elective class, I never > >quite got why all of Gryffindor signed up and all of Slytherin signed > >up) and that only seems to be an hour. Heh. I never noticed that oddity as well. Malfoy's not too fond of Hagrid or creatures, so it does seem weird that he and the rest of Slytherin decided to take the course. I wonder why Harry continues to take Divination, because it doesn't seem that he enjoys the class very much. Wandering over to the (very nifty) Lexicon..... (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/hogwarts_academics.html) I have to agree (well, under the heading "Would you want this for your child?" the wizard parents don't have much choice, unless they send their kids abroad, which would probably necessitate them knowing French or German/whatever the language of instruction at Durmstrang is) that the core curriculum is rather humanities-lacking. Also, it doesn't seem to bode well for our heroes that they've skipped a year of labwork (yr 2 under Lockheart) in one of their core classes. But at least they've had two years of good instruction. I don't know if I'd argue that CoMC (Care of Magical Creatures) has been a waste; maybe learning to deal with flobberworms and difficult to care for creatures like skrewts teaches important basic skills. > Charmian From alw at wilsonllp.com Tue Jan 9 12:50:52 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 07:50:52 -0500 Subject: Double Potions References: <93di89+ajh3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003f01c07a3a$ccf11f60$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 8835 Ha...I just read last night in GoF (and of course it's at home with my notes so I can't tell you which chapter) that Double Potions is an hour and a half their forth year and they seem to only have it Friday afternoons. So...does that mean that their regular classes are 45 minutes long? I guess that makes sense. They have to give you a little bit of time to get from class to class (especially if you're coming from Divination). Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Jan 9 14:17:45 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 06:17:45 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] HP Fossil Watch Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8836 That was me (I'm wearing it right now!) and my hubby got it at the Warner Brothers Studio Store. The only other place I've seen these is on e-bay. You were able for a while to get them online, too (WB Store), but apparently they're discontinuing their online business and the site's been down for a while. Good luck! Meredith ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Stephanie Becvar [mailto:StephBecvar at hotmail.com] ** Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 9:26 PM ** To: HPforGrownUps at egroups.com ** Subject: [HPforGrownUps] HP Fossil Watch ** ** ** Someone said that they got an HP watch by fossil watch for ** christmas....I ** can't remember who...Anyways....I had a fit of excitement ** because i got a ** fossil for christmas that my mom just randomly picked ** thinking i could ** exchange it bc she is anti-gift cirtificates, so I go to the ** web site to ** check out the price, and they said it hadn't been released ** yet!!! So, is it ** out yet, or did you pre-order, or what happened? ** ** Stephanie ** Who REALLY Wants a Harry Potter Watch! ** ** _________________________________________________________________ ** Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ** ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From john at walton.to Tue Jan 9 15:09:01 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 15:09:01 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Double Potions In-Reply-To: <003f01c07a3a$ccf11f60$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8837 Amy wrote: > Ha...I just read last night in GoF (and of course it's at home with my notes > so I can't tell you which chapter) that Double Potions is an hour and a half > their forth year and they seem to only have it Friday afternoons. So...does > that mean that their regular classes are 45 minutes long? I guess that makes > sense. They have to give you a little bit of time to get from class to class > (especially if you're coming from Divination). Actually, my classes at school were only 40 minutes long. It makes sense, since the average attention span is only 20 minutes. Of course, it's a bit of a shock when you get to university and have hour-long courses... --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: "Come the millennium, month 12 In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader." ======================================== From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 9 15:07:17 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:07:17 -0500 Subject: CoS Musings Message-ID: <200101091510.f09FA2C12533@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8838 One for the "Could Ron be a seer?" file: Ron on Gilderoy Lockhart: "Rubbish,"said Hermione. "You've read his books--look at all those amazing things he's done--" "He *says* he's done," Ron muttered. (CoS, US ed, p. 103) OK, so maybe it doesn't require too much Divination skill, but no one else seems to think he's really a fake at that point. And two for the "Is george the more senstive twin?" file: After getting the booklists: "That lot won't come cheap," said George, with a quick look at his parents. "Lockhart's books are really expensive..." (CoS, US ed, p. 44) AND he's still worried about it later, when the boys are playing Quidditch outside: "Dunno how Mom and Dad are going to afford all our school stuff this year," said george after awhile. "Five sets of Lockhart books! And Ginny needs new robes and a wand and everything..." CoS, US ed, p. 46. Just thought it was interesting that George was the one so concerned in light of our recent discussions about the twins. I had never noticed the difference before. Kathy From alw at wilsonllp.com Tue Jan 9 15:20:37 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:20:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] CoS Musings References: <200101091510.f09FA2C12533@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <006901c07a4f$b87da160$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 8839 About buying books each year... Ok, I get how George and Fred each need their own books, but at least some of these books they only use one year (the charms book for one) Why can Ginny just use the Ron's, George's, Fred's, Percy's, Charlie's, Bill's old books? Amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Kelly MacMillan To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] CoS Musings One for the "Could Ron be a seer?" file: Ron on Gilderoy Lockhart: "Rubbish,"said Hermione. "You've read his books--look at all those amazing things he's done--" "He *says* he's done," Ron muttered. (CoS, US ed, p. 103) OK, so maybe it doesn't require too much Divination skill, but no one else seems to think he's really a fake at that point. And two for the "Is george the more senstive twin?" file: After getting the booklists: "That lot won't come cheap," said George, with a quick look at his parents. "Lockhart's books are really expensive..." (CoS, US ed, p. 44) AND he's still worried about it later, when the boys are playing Quidditch outside: "Dunno how Mom and Dad are going to afford all our school stuff this year," said george after awhile. "Five sets of Lockhart books! And Ginny needs new robes and a wand and everything..." CoS, US ed, p. 46. Just thought it was interesting that George was the one so concerned in light of our recent discussions about the twins. I had never noticed the difference before. Kathy To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Jan 9 15:32:15 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:32:15 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] CoS Musings Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE3C@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8840 > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen Kelly MacMillan [SMTP:kathleen at carr.org] > Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 11:07 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] CoS Musings > > One for the "Could Ron be a seer?" file: > Ron on Gilderoy Lockhart: > "Rubbish,"said Hermione. "You've read his books--look at all those > amazing > things he's done--" > "He *says* he's done," Ron muttered. (CoS, US ed, p. 103) > > OK, so maybe it doesn't require too much Divination skill, but no one else > > seems to think he's really a fake at that point. I did! But I also thought he was a squib. > And two for the "Is george the more senstive twin?" file: > I don't have anything to add to the file. I just want to say that I knew I was in a crowd of people who thrive on little details when people noticed a difference between Fred and George. It wasn't something I'd paid attention to before, but now I do! Angela From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 9 15:33:31 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 15:33:31 -0000 Subject: Lessons Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8841 Amy wrote: "Ha...I just read last night in GoF (and of course it's at home with my notes so I can't tell you which chapter) that Double Potions is an hour and a half their forth year and they seem to only have it Friday afternoons. So...does that mean that their regular classes are 45 minutes long? I guess that makes sense. They have to give you a little bit of time to get from class to class (especially if you're coming from Divination)." John replied with: "Actually, my classes at school were only 40 minutes long. It makes sense, since the average attention span is only 20 minutes. Of course, it's a bit of a shock when you get to university and have hour-long courses..." My dad teaches at a school which until recently had lesson of 30 minutes (I think they had 10 in a day) and so all practical subjects (such as design technology which he teaches) were at least double periods and in some cases triple (only for A-levels). Both my A-level physics and Chemistry had at least one double per week, which meant one two-hour lesson a week - with no break (my school operated on a fortnightly timetable which is very confusing). For part of the time I had chemistry lessons and free periods that meant I could start an experiment at 9 am (school start time) and keep going until the end of the day (3:30 pm) as I had no other lessons. Even more oddly was managing to get a timetable with one lesson from 9 am until 10 am and then have nothing else for the rest of the day - which meant that I then broke the school rules and went home! 1-hour sessions are the norm at university, but I have had many tutorials that have gone over two hours and on one occasion we broke into the fourth hour (which can only be described as painful!). Simon From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Jan 9 15:45:06 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 07:45:06 -0800 Subject: My boss Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8842 I have to say I have a very cool boss. We were talking about getting new calendars for our desks and she mentioned that she thought we could get a better price if we didn't order them through the office supply catalog and just went to Barnes and Noble where they were on sale. She said she was going to get us some air and space themed ones (I work at an air and space museum) when I mentioned I was going to get my own because I wanted a HP one. She says "Hey, then I'll get you a Harry Potter calendar." This morning she brought it to me, so I was able to get my HP calendar paid for by the company! What a world I live in... Meredith From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Jan 9 15:54:42 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 11:54:42 -0400 Subject: Before Hogwarts Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE3D@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8843 I apologize if this has been asked before, but where do wizard children go to school before Hogwarts? Are they home-schooled? >From the conversations with the Diggorys before using the portkey to go to the World Cup, it doesn't sound like there is enough of a wizard population for a local wizard school in the Weasleys' area. So what did the Weasley children do before going to Hogwarts? Or, what do you think they did? I pity Molly trying to home school all those kids! Angela From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Jan 9 16:48:34 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn ) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 16:48:34 -0000 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <93e1at+5mr4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ffd2+sql8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8844 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Fefe " wrote: > Hi all Harry fans ! Well, hello and welcome to you! And, may I say that your English is excellent! Glad you came to join us. Jeralyn, the Voicelady From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 7 19:07:16 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 14:07:16 -0500 Subject: Falling Out Of Rosebushes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8845 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, dhill52084 at a... wrote: >hi all, You want sex? How about Fleur and her date falling out of the >bushes in the scene where Harry is eavesdropping on hagrid's >conversation with his girl friend? BTW who was fleur's date? catlady wrote: >Fleur's date was Roger Davies, captain of the Ravenclaw Quidditch team. She >and he were involved in an intimate conversation such that Harry thought >they wouldn't notice if he and Ron sneaked by, but as a recall, not in a >rose bush. A number of couples fell out of rose bushes that Snape blasted, >of which the only names we were given are Miss Fawcett of Hufflepuff and Mr >Stebbins of Ravenclaw. Hi catlady! (I'm one too.) Fleur and Roger do escape Snape's notice, but their "intimate conversation" does take place in a rosebush (now, that *can't* be very comfortable) and ends when Madame Maxime's voice "explode[s] through the peaceful night air like a foghorn." ("Behind him, Harry heard Fleur and Roger fall out of their rosebush."--hilarious line, no?) pp. 427-429 in the US ed, you research librarians out there-- Amy "You weren't being thick after all--you were showing moral fiber!" _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From readbaby at ivillage.com Tue Jan 9 17:35:27 2001 From: readbaby at ivillage.com (readbaby at ivillage.com) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:35:27 -0000 Subject: A thought about Prof. Trelawney In-Reply-To: <000401c079da$3a55b220$5db191d8@computer> Message-ID: <93fi4v+qbsk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8846 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rachelle Elliott" wrote: > Maybe I'm off but here goes. > > We have 2 primary ways to refer to Lord Voldermort: Lord Voldermort and > He-who-must-not-be-named. Others such as Draco Malfoy, Lucius Malfoy, > Crouch, Barty J.R., ('evil' or potentially evil wizards) call Voldermort the > 'Dark Lord'. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Here is the dilema: Why > does Professor Trelawney, in her prediction in PoA Chapter 16, refer to him > as the 'Dark Lord?' Was she on the other side or was it meerly an accident? > > What are your thoughts? ginny weasley also called him "the dark lord" in the book chamber of secrets. From readbaby at ivillage.com Tue Jan 9 17:48:19 2001 From: readbaby at ivillage.com (readbaby at ivillage.com) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 17:48:19 -0000 Subject: basilik Message-ID: <93fit3+q1o3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8847 whats the point of harry being able to speak parseltounge if he doesnt tell basilik to kill tom morvolo riddle? can tommy die also if he looks into the snakes eyes? From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Jan 9 18:04:39 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 10:04:39 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Babes of Hogwarts (was: OT: Babes in Oz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8848 *** >That sounds like a calendar. Does Harry just get one picture, or is ** >he in every picture, posing with Cedric Diggory for January, Roger ** >Davies for February, the Weasley twins for March, Viktor Krum for ** >April, Sirius for May, Remus for June, Bill in July, Charlie in ** >August, Draco in September, Snape in October, Tom Riddle ** (fifty years ** >ago) in November, Hagrid with Xmas trees for December? ** ** A-HEM! Just where is Ron is this lineup? ** ** Kathy ** I have to agree... plus, although Dumbledore won't be joining the Chippendales anytime soon, he is the man behind the greatness of Hogwarts. He at least deserves to be in there somewhere... I mean if Hagrid is, surely Dumbledore can be, right? Mer From fefe at fazekas.hu Tue Jan 9 18:58:29 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (Fefe ) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 18:58:29 -0000 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <93ffd2+sql8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93fn0l+q57m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8849 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jeralyn " wrote: > Well, hello and welcome to you! And, may I say that your English is > excellent! Glad you came to join us. Thanks. If you'd have been my English teacher in school, maybe i'd have got better grades :) I'll be really happy sharing my thoughts about HP with you, but now i have to leave because i'm going to have an arithmancy (OK, probability theory :) exam tomorrow morning and i have to learn a lot. bye for now Fefe From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 21:58:05 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 21:58:05 -0000 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <93e1at+5mr4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93g1hd+5ajr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8850 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Fefe " wrote: > Hi all Harry fans ! > > I'm new on this list, so i think i should write something about > myself. Probably i don't have to say that i'm a Harry fan :) I don't > know if i belong to the category "grown-up" because i'm only 20 years > old, and i think (and hope) that in my soul, i'm going to always > remain a kid :) I just turned 27 and hope I haven't grown up yet! Excuse me for my bad English, i'm Hungarian and i > only learned English for a few years in school, but i hope that > you're going to understand me. Your English is very good- my Hungarian is nonexistent. 'Nuff said. I'm studying in the Technical > University of Budapest and i work as a software developer to get a > little money. Despite the efforts of my teachers, i still like > computers, i like cars (i own a 10 years old Soviet car, and i love > it :) People where I live think I'm crazy to want to modify/improve my '93 Geo Metro (aka Suzuki Swift), instead of dumping it for something newer/bigger. Oh, well...if only the right Anglia 105E would come along (I've only ever seen one) But now, i'm kinda Hr/H shipper, > despite all logical arguments of Hr/R shippers (love is not logical > at all, is it ? :). But i hope that the following books are not going > to be filled with the love affairs of the triangle. Btw J.K. said > somewhere that Ginny "will play more of a role in Book Five". This > may also affect the relationships. > I have also never heard of fanfics before. At first, i decided to not > to read them, because the real Harry Potter is who J.K. is writing > about. But i'm so addicted to Harry that i started reading them. I > check ff.net from time to time, and sometimes i find something good > or funny. Have you read "Paradigm of Uncertainty" yet? Lori really is the Captain of the H/H Ship, and there's plenty of laughs and action, too. From pbnesbit at msn.com Tue Jan 9 22:46:07 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:46:07 -0000 Subject: Why Voldemort was after Harry/Gryffindor descendent/OT Message-ID: <93g4bf+medt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8851 In CoS, after Harry rescues Ginny from Riddle and is in McGonagall's office, there's a discussion about what Riddle had said to Harry (about how they were alike). It's on page 333 of the Scholastic paperback. "Dumbledore reached across to Professor McGonagall's desk, picked up the blood-stained silver sword and handed it to Harry. Dully, Harry turned it over, the rubies blazing in the firelight. And then he saw the name engraved just below the hilt. Godric Gryffindor. "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry," said Dumbledore, simply." Is this a foreshadowing of something? She said, hopefully. (groan) I'm new too & I'm really enjoying learning from everyone!! Parker From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Jan 9 22:47:20 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 9 Jan 2001 14:47:20 -0800 Subject: Holy cow, Ebony! Message-ID: <20010109224720.2222.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8852 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 22:52:44 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:52:44 -0000 Subject: The power in Voldemort's name In-Reply-To: <93dun4+thmh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93g4ns+5jb5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8853 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, alw at w... wrote: "Hmm, now I'm going to have to go back and read all the books again for any reference to Voldermort. Somehow, I don't think Trelawney is a bad guy, but it does give you pause...of course, I have quite a few questions about Voldermort's name all together. Like who started the whole "He who must not be named" and "You know who". To me, it seems like that bit started in Voldermort's camp as a way to increase fear. Either that, or Voldermort's name has more meaning than we already know - that speaking his name is a way to curse him or something (I know, I know - that's way out in left field somewhere)." It isn't out in left field at all. There's a notion in a lot of magic-works-universe fiction that the true name of a thing is powerful. Usually, though, it runs the other way; you have more power over a thing if you know its truename. In LeGuin's Wizard of Earthsea trilogy, people did not reveal their truenames except to their most trusted friends. Ged, the central character, was known as Sparrowhawk to most people. "How are you called?", people would say. Maybe that's what it is -- if you use Voldemort's ("flight of death" in French) name it will tick him off and he'll get you for attacking him. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 22:59:05 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:59:05 -0000 Subject: Plug for Jim's "The Letter" Message-ID: <93g53p+8dkv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8854 Good evening, everyone... Parents, what would you do if your child received a letter from a magic school like Hogwarts? Young adults, how would you feel if your younger sister or brother received such an invitation? Teens, wouldn't you love to attend a school like Hogwarts? For those of us who have wondered what the world would be like if JKR's world really existed parallel to our own, here's a great new fanfiction by HP4GU member Jim Ferer: "The Letter", Chapter 01 by Dadgrid http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=170482 Jim's first fic, "The Granger Interview", along with the works featured on the PoU list inspired me so much that I'm sure I wouldn't be writing fanfic today if I'd never encountered them. "The Granger Interview" is also on our welcome page over at Yahoo! as the sample fanfic written by one of our members. I can't say enough good things about his work... go read today! --Ebony From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 23:04:50 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:04:50 -0000 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <93e1at+5mr4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93g5ei+809p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8855 Fefe:"I also thought that maybe i could also write some fanfic, but i'm afraid that i'm not good enough in English to write an enjoyable story. Maybe i'll try it, if i'll have a really good idea. OK, bye for now, i think i should sleep, it's 4:36 AM here :)" Your English is excellent, better than that you see in some fic posted on ff.net. What magical traditions are there in Hungary? Is there a school for wizards there? You have a lot to bring to a fic, I think, and there's plenty of us glad to serve as beta-readers [proofreaders, we'll read your fic and give private feedback and advice]. From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 03:57:15 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 21:57:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] OT: Deer hunting Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8856 >Stephanie, m'dear, you are hereby invited to our house for an absolutely >wonderful Polish venison dish, which will change your opinion of deer >hunting forever...at least by non-grunting participants. >--Amanda Ha ha ha ha...I have had venison, and dislike it rather a lot...I am a vegeterian not for animal rights albeit...but This particular friend is normally the kind to taunt the grunting "all-american southern male"...he he he....but bc this is the HP list and i feel badly for veering off topic...He DID "read" books 1&2 of HP bc i lent him my CD's... Stephanie Who thanks you for your invitation, and thinks my brother would love some venison, but i will bring a salad _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From john at walton.to Tue Jan 9 23:14:39 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:14:39 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lessons (Soooo OT :D) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8857 Simon wrote: > Both my A-level physics and Chemistry had at least one double per week, > which meant one two-hour lesson a week - with no break (my school operated > on a fortnightly timetable which is very confusing). For part of the time I > had chemistry lessons and free periods that meant I could start an > experiment at 9 am (school start time) and keep going until the end of the > day (3:30 pm) as I had no other lessons. Even more oddly was managing to get > a timetable with one lesson from 9 am until 10 am and then have nothing else > for the rest of the day - which meant that I then broke the school rules and > went home! Isn't it amazing how one gets up at 7am or earlier (well, 7.15 for me) every day to get to school for 5+ years, and then upon reaching university, even 10 am seems like an early rise? --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to I didn't vote for his daddy either. ======================================== From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 23:18:13 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:18:13 -0000 Subject: The power in Voldemort's name In-Reply-To: <93g4ns+5jb5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93g67l+8b44@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8858 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > It isn't out in left field at all. There's a notion in a lot of > magic-works-universe fiction that the true name of a thing is > powerful. Usually, though, it runs the other way; you have more power > over a thing if you know its truename. In LeGuin's Wizard of Earthsea > trilogy, people did not reveal their truenames except to their most > trusted friends. Ged, the central character, was known as Sparrowhawk > to most people. "How are you called?", people would say. > > Maybe that's what it is -- if you use Voldemort's ("flight of death" > in French) name it will tick him off and he'll get you for attacking > him. That might be it, but I don't think we've seen anything in the books that indicates that it really does anything. (In fact, isn't Tom Marvolo Riddle really Voldemort's name? I wonder how long it took JKR to come up with that anagram.) In SS/PS, ("Call him Voldemort, Harry. Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.") doesn't Dumbledore encourage Harry to say Voldemort instead of He-who-must-not-be-named or You-know-who (the second, now that I think about it, is in fact rather silly sounding. What's next, that-really-scary-guy or the wizard-formerly-known-as- Tom-Marvolo-Riddle? I suspect Voldemort shall soon, to celebrate his resurrection, insist that his followers refer to him by an unprounouncable symbol, which won't be a problem, since they all call him the Dark Lord anyway). But on the other hand, Dumbledore and Voldy are in the same class, power-wise, and Harry used to be off- limits to Voldemort's magic. Charmian From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 9 23:17:59 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:17:59 -0000 Subject: Why Voldemort was after Harry/Gryffindor descendent/OT In-Reply-To: <93g4bf+medt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93g677+80of@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8859 Parker:<< the name engraved just below the hilt. Godric Gryffindor. "Only a true Gryffindor could have pulled that out of the hat, Harry," said Dumbledore, simply." Is this a foreshadowing of something?>> With JKR, *everything* is a foreshadowing of something. She is a master of deception, Knight Commander of the Order of the Red Herring. IOW, who knows? A lot of us have speculated that, as Riddle was the Heir of Slytherin, Harry (like his father before him) is the Heir of Gryffindor, his direct descendant. This is what made him and his father Voldemort's targets. It would explain why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry but apparently wouldn't have killed Lilly if she hadn't gotten in the way. It's an appealing idea, but we don't really know. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 9 23:42:57 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 18:42:57 -0500 Subject: They're Still Rock and Stone (filk) References: <978715294.58371@egroups.com> Message-ID: <001701c07a95$e6131560$54c54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 8860 They're Still Rock and Stone (from CoS) (To the tune of It's Still Rock and Roll to Me) (The Scene: The Grounds before Hogwarts. In the foreground are the petrified forms of Hermione Granger, Penelope Clearwater, Colin Creevy, Justin Finch-Fletchley, Mrs. Norris, and Nearly Headless Nick. A CHORUS OF HOGWARTS STUDENTS AND STAFF are gripped with fear as they ponder the series of mysterious attacks) CHORUS: What's all happenin' at Hogwarts now? It's makin' us be extra wary There's an evil sort of Magic here That's changing us to statuary Despite Professor Binns' official disclaimer We think it came out of that lost Secret Chamber Everybody's hopin' that's it's not really open But they're still rock and stone, you see. (The Crowd partially disperses. A CHORUS OF HUFFLEPUFF AND RAVENCLAW STUDENTS turn toward HARRY POTTER, regarding him with a mixture of curiosity and fear). CHORUS OF RAVENCLAW AND HUFFLEPUFF STUDENTS: What's the story with that Potter guy? Did you notice how at Lockhart's duel He starts conversin' with a species whose Ancestors are now fossil fuel. He's a Parselmouth, and we think that he planned it To transform his antagonists into solid granite No fake! We quake! He spake to snake! And they're still rock and stone, you see. (EXIT all, save for HARRY and RON WEASLEY) RW: Oh, it doesn't matter what they say in the hallways But who's behind this heinous crime? HP: No way that it's Hagrid BOTH: We first thought Draco did, Malfoy was our suspect prime But it's not him this time (Enter PROF. SPROUT and MADAM POMFREY, both carrying potted Mandrakes) S: What they're needin' is the Mandrake plant Which is also known as Mandragora P: No matter what it is that's ailing you It's the very thing to best restore ya S: We'll have to wait, it's a lengthy gestation P: But they'll all revive at the first application ALL: Tough break! They ache! Mandrake will wake! But they're still rock and stone, say we. (Exit SPROUT and POMFREY. HARRY notes a wad of paper clutched tightly in Hermione's hand, and pries it loose. They both read it eagerly) RW: With a helpful hint from Hermione At last we understand it all HP:Someone's been sending out a basilisk I've heard it crawlin' through the wall RW: You know how it is, when Dark Forces are lurkin' HP: That's just our cue that it's time to start workin' BOTH: It's make or break! We'll shake bad snake! Rock and stone no one ever will be! We're both proposin' that ol' Chamber should be closin' Rock and stone no one ever will be! (Exit) - CMC From john at walton.to Tue Jan 9 23:39:49 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:39:49 +0000 Subject: HP and the Song of Time Chps 3+4 uploaded to FFN! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8861 Hi all, After a long wait, chapters 3 and 4 of the rapidly-approaching-epic-proportions Harry Potter and the Song of Time is up at FanFiction.net. If this link doesn't work for you, you can search under my author name (Crazy Ivan) or under "Song of Time". http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=170583 Big schnoogles (::grin::) to Penny and Ebony for helpful betareading comments! Okay, end of shameless plug. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George W. Bush -- the President Quayle we never had. ======================================== From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 00:19:04 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:19:04 -0000 Subject: Holy cow, Ebony!/John's fic! In-Reply-To: <20010109224720.2222.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <93g9po+opnh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8862 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, voicelady at m... wrote: > So did you just get the longest EVER review on ff.net?!? > > **************************************************** > Jeralyn, the Voicelady No--the Queen of Long Reviews was, is, and forevermore shall be Cassie. ;) On a more serious note, I just want to wholeheartedly thank everyone who's read my story and recommended it here and elsewhere (grins at Voicelady). I'm *extremely* shocked that a good number of people seem to be actually reading it... I honestly came up with the original idea in a very vindictive anti-R/H and anti-One Big Happy Weasley Family mood. I've calmed down a bit since then and a lot has changed, but there you have it. Also, I second the plug for John's "HP and the Song of Time" fic. One of many favorite exchanges: ::::"Is this a real '57 Chevy?" Ron asked excitedly. ::::"No, it's actually a small furry wombat named Constance who enjoys knitting, travel and can say the Greek alphabet backwards," Draco said, voice dripping with sarcasm. --Ebony From john at walton.to Wed Jan 10 00:19:18 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:19:18 +0000 Subject: DAILY PROPHET EXTRA! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8863 DAILY PROPHET SPECIAL OWL BULLETIN Washington, D.C., 9 January >From our Washington Correspondent, Jer E. Mander In shock news today, one of the nominees for cabinet positions by President-elect Ball N. Cheney [George W. Voldemort, surely? -Ed.] withdrew her name from nomination, citing controversy about past employment of an illegal alien. "I am not Mother Teresa ... I have tried to do right by people who have been in need," said Guila B. Flimflam in a hastily-organised press conference in Washington. Ms Flimflam had been nominated for the prestigious Minister of Work post by George W. Voldemort, yet her image was tarnished by accusations that she employed Venus D. Milo, an illegal alien from the planet Pluto, as a housekeeper and maid for a period of two years, without paying Antisocial Insecurity taxes. Labor groups had opposed Ms Flimflam's nomination on those grounds. Now, it appears, she has jumped before being pushed, bitten the bullet, kicked the bucket [enough metaphors. -Ed.]. I think it's a little hypocritical for Ms Flimflam to have employed Ms Milo, particularly since she criticised Zo Bored for much the same thing. Now all we have to do is find something on John Ashtree and the world will be safe again," said s spokesman for the opposition Birthday Party, referring to President William J. Libido's 1993 nomination of Ms Zo E. Bored for Minister of Law: "I think most of the American people were upset during the Zoe Baird nomination that she had hired an illegal alien," Ms. Flimflam had remarked on Public Wizarding Network's "MacNair-Loony NewsHour" in December 1993. The alien in question, Venus D. Milo, declined to be interviewed, although sources report she is now a naturalised witch, having married the actor Marvin T. Martian in a ceremony in Las Vegas. From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 01:13:22 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 03:13:22 +0200 Subject: Introduction References: <979082740.9471@egroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8864 > From: "Jim Ferer" > > Fefe:"I also thought that maybe i could also write some fanfic, > but i'm afraid that i'm not good enough in English to write an > enjoyable story. Maybe i'll try it, if i'll have a really good idea. > OK, bye for now, i think i should sleep, it's 4:36 AM here :)" > > Your English is excellent, better than that you see in some fic posted > on ff.net. What magical traditions are there in Hungary? Is there a > school for wizards there? You have a lot to bring to a fic, I think, > and there's plenty of us glad to serve as beta-readers [proofreaders, > we'll read your fic and give private feedback and advice]. Welcome, Fefe! Just wanted to let you know that having English as a first language is certainly not mandatory to write fanfic. I know that there are some readers who turn down fics because of less than perfect English, but there are many who don't. I actually started the whole fanfic writing thing to improve my English, and i feel that it is now better than it was a few months ago. (not there yet, though). The best thing that happened to me, was finding some beta-readers, which i regret to say, happened only recently. (Jeralyn - did you get the thank you mail i sent you almost two weeks ago?) My first language is Hebrew, btw. If you're curious to see fics written by non-English speakers, you can read things by an author nicked 'Saralea', and you're always welcome to try mine :) If you want to get your hands on the better fics, you might want to check out the hp4ever egroup. It's a spin-off of ff.net and it is said to have only good plot-driven fics. If you want specific recommendations, mail me privately, and i'll happily send you a list enough to fill your time from now until the seventh book is out. :) welcome, again, yael From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 10 01:07:07 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:07:07 -0000 Subject: Scenes We'd Like to See Message-ID: <93gcjr+evv7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8865 SCENES WE'D LIKE TO SEE: Draco gasped in horror. Standing in the doorway was a cloaked figure that towered to the ceiling. Its face was completely hidden beneath its hood. Draco's eyes darted downward and what he saw made his stomach contract. There was a hand protruding from the cloak like something dead that had decayed in water An intense cold swept over him. Draco's eyes rolled up into his head. He couldn't see .. He was being dragged downward, the roaring growing louder And then from far away, he heard shouting, terrible, terrifying shouts "OH NO YOU DON'T LADDIE!" He felt himself shivering on a stone-flagged floor, gave a terrified squeak, and ran streaking toward the dungeons . "I DON'T THINK SO" the voice roared, and he saw himself flying ten feet in the air, falling with a smack to the floor, and rising and falling, again and again and again .. - CMC From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 01:29:59 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:29:59 -0000 Subject: Draco Dormiens in the Classroom Message-ID: <93gdun+10mra@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8866 Third attempt to send this message... apologies to members of the PoU list, as much of this is the same. This is a testimonial about how Cassie (yes, Cassandra Claire) has written a story that is not only entertaining, but of educational value as well. Despite what you might be gathering from my posts, I don't talk about Harry Potter in my classroom from bell to bell. In fact, if I'm not teaching HP, I don't mention it at all. It is the kids who've shaped me into the fan that I am. My students bring up HP, they are the ones who show off the merchandise, they are the ones who make me think of the stories in different ways. At work, I'm a no-shipper, I have no pet theories, I don't write fanfic, and all my students know is that I've read all the books and like them so much that they're on my reading list. Oh, if they only knew... Anyway, they've been bringing in HP stuff they got for Christmas and from the post-Christmas sales ever since we returned. Yesterday, the daughter of a co-worker who's been my student for two years gushed to me and a few other students about her presents, then GoF during a break near the end of the day. "I wish they had more Draco Malfoy toys and stuff. He's my favorite character. He's mean, but I think he's that way because he's bitter. He's wanted to be friends with Harry since the beginning, but Harry chose Ron instead of him." I was surprised for two reasons. First, I thought I'd established the fact that kids didn't like Draco much. Secondly, this particular kid (I'll call her Rochelle) is an absolute doll. Considerable, sweet, adorable--when I have a daughter and she's twelve, I wouldn't mind her being like Rochelle. You wouldn't think a kid like Rochelle would have a thing for bad boys. The kid blushes a little, then says, "Oh, and Miss Thomas, I think... I think Draco likes Hermione, because he always..." my eyebrows raise sternly (I become McGonagall whenever shippiness is mentioned in context with HP--the kids have absolutely no idea that they helped convert me to H/H via FITD) so she says quickly, "...but anyway, I always re-read the parts he and Draco are in. I wish he was in the books more." Today, the kid in question opted to sit out of a Drama lesson I was teaching on stage combat (one of my favorites!). She and some of her squeamish friends were sitting sort of listlessly aside as they watched us practice rolling, fainting, and mock-fighting each other. (Parents, don't flame--the spring play's Peter Pan!) So I told her, "Rochelle, turn on the Mac... remember, you said you wanted to read more about Draco? A friend of mine online has written a really good story about what would happen if Draco and Harry switched places for a while." "Ooh!" Why did I say that? As fun as the stage combat lesson is, soon I had more than ten kids around the computer. All you had to do was say the magic words "Harry Potter" and "after GoF" and they'd forgotten all about learning to duel. Which was kind of cool--teaching 14 adolescents theories and techniques of simulated swordfighting is a lot easier than teaching 25 of them--if you don't believe me, try it sometime. They read DD, they laughed, they missed all the refs they weren't supposed to get at 11, 12, and 13 (like Draco's shower scene in DD1), and at the end of the hour I had to turn off the computer to the chorus of "Aw!" before they'd get the heck out of my room. They all copied down the title and Cassie's ff.net alias (as did some of the actors who were training for the main parts in Peter Pan). They begged to continue tomorrow (what? and miss mock-drop kicking? I must be losing my touch!). Best of all, while patrolling the halls after school I thrilled to hear one of the boys telling a group of his friends all about it. This quote is verbatim: "Man, that Draco is a punk in the book, but he should get a chance to tell his side of the story, too." I just know one thing. The day a group of my eighth grade girls enter my classroom extoling the virtues of Mr. Malfoy in leather trousers, I find a new line of work. That's all there is to it. :-) Cassie made my life so much easier today. Just like JKR's storytelling appeals to kids, teens, and adults alike, hers is the rare fanfic that transcends age barriers. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 01:32:21 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:32:21 -0000 Subject: (OT) Fics by Non-Native English Speakers (was Re: Introduction) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93ge35+10sn5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8867 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "yael-pou" wrote: > If you're curious to see fics written by non-English speakers, > you can read things by an author nicked 'Saralea', and you're always welcome > to try mine :) Another fic writer who's good is AndreaBonfanti. She's from Brazil, and her first fic was masterful IMO. --Ebony From john at walton.to Wed Jan 10 02:00:34 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:00:34 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The power in Voldemort's name In-Reply-To: <93g67l+8b44@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8868 Charmian wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > >> >> It isn't out in left field at all. There's a notion in a lot of >> magic-works-universe fiction that the true name of a thing is >> powerful. Usually, though, it runs the other way; you have more > power >> over a thing if you know its truename. In LeGuin's Wizard of > Earthsea >> trilogy, people did not reveal their truenames except to their most >> trusted friends. Ged, the central character, was known as > Sparrowhawk >> to most people. "How are you called?", people would say. >> >> Maybe that's what it is -- if you use Voldemort's ("flight of > death" >> in French) name it will tick him off and he'll get you for > attacking >> him. > > That might be it, but I don't think we've seen anything in the books > that indicates that it really does anything. (In fact, isn't Tom > Marvolo Riddle really Voldemort's name? I wonder how long it took JKR > to come up with that anagram.) In SS/PS, ("Call him Voldemort, Harry. > Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear > of the thing itself.") doesn't Dumbledore encourage Harry to say > Voldemort instead of He-who-must-not-be-named or You-know-who (the > second, now that I think about it, is in fact rather silly sounding. > What's next, that-really-scary-guy or the wizard-formerly-known-as- > Tom-Marvolo-Riddle? I suspect Voldemort shall soon, to celebrate his > resurrection, insist that his followers refer to him by an > unprounouncable symbol, which won't be a problem, since they all call > him the Dark Lord anyway). But on the other hand, Dumbledore and > Voldy are in the same class, power-wise, and Harry used to be off- > limits to Voldemort's magic. > > Charmian The name-as-power theme runs not only through LeGuin (one of my FAVORITE writers!) but through Eddings. For instance, in the first two books of the Belgariad (the first series), Our Heroes avoid saying the name of the Grolim Apostate (type of sorcerer) Zedar. Apparently, he can hear his name being said all over the land. Perhaps, therefore, this is why nobody says Voldy's name. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Campaign spending: $184,000,000 Coke habit in your youth: $300 per day Having your little brother rig the election for you: Priceless ======================================== From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 10 02:16:30 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:16:30 -0000 Subject: fanfic beta-reading In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93gglu+rgc8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8869 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "yael-pou" wrote: > Jeralyn - did you get the> thank you mail i sent you almost two weeks ago? Yes, I did, and you're welcome! And now I'm anxiously waiting for the next chapter! (I'm enjoying being a beta-reader; I get to see chapters before everyone else - nyah nyah!) Jeraln, the voicelady From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 02:19:19 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:19:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] HP Fossil Watch Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8870 Ahhh....see, I DO have a reg WB HP watch, but the foddil watch coming out is supposed to be a really nice one with a metal band like the rest of theirs are, and IT wont be out till May....but thats ok, who cares....I have a HP watch, though i will prob break down and buy the other when it comes out. I work At James Avery(a jewelry store) and it is RIGHT across from the WB store in our mall, and it is SOOOOOOO hard not to go in there and spend my entire paycheck after it goes in my account the previous day., I did not know i posessed this kind of self control Stephanie >That was me (I'm wearing it right now!) and my hubby got it at the Warner >Brothers Studio Store. The only other place I've seen these is on e-bay. >You were able for a while to get them online, too (WB Store), but >apparently >they're discontinuing their online business and the site's been down for a >while. Good luck! > >Meredith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 02:31:55 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:31:55 -0000 Subject: The power in Voldemort's name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93ghir+qc7o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8871 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > Charmian wrote: > > > > That might be it, but I don't think we've seen anything in the books > > that indicates that it really does anything. (In fact, isn't Tom > > Marvolo Riddle really Voldemort's name? I wonder how long it took JKR > > to come up with that anagram.) In SS/PS, ("Call him Voldemort, Harry. > > Always use the proper name for things. Fear of a name increases fear > > of the thing itself.") doesn't Dumbledore encourage Harry to say > > Voldemort instead of He-who-must-not-be-named or You-know-who (the > > second, now that I think about it, is in fact rather silly sounding. > > What's next, that-really-scary-guy or the wizard-formerly-known- as- > > Tom-Marvolo-Riddle? I suspect Voldemort shall soon, to celebrate his > > resurrection, insist that his followers refer to him by an > > unprounouncable symbol, which won't be a problem, since they all call > > him the Dark Lord anyway). But on the other hand, Dumbledore and > > Voldy are in the same class, power-wise, and Harry used to be off- > > limits to Voldemort's magic. > > > > Charmian > > The name-as-power theme runs not only through LeGuin (one of my FAVORITE > writers!) but through Eddings. For instance, in the first two books of the > Belgariad (the first series), Our Heroes avoid saying the name of the Grolim > Apostate (type of sorcerer) Zedar. Apparently, he can hear his name being > said all over the land. > > Perhaps, therefore, this is why nobody says Voldy's name. > This also reminds me of one of my favorite sff writers, Diana Wynne Jones; Chrestomanci always comes when you call him, and can sense the mentioning of his title. (I wish she'd write some more children's books instead of going off on her parodic fantasy genre pieces...) But like I said, I don't think this is at work in JKR's series for two reasons. Firstly, no one gives Harry a concrete reason for not saying Voldy's name. It just makes them uncomfortable, or gives them a nasty feeling, or brings up unpleasant memories. Secondly, that quote of Dumbledore's which I've quoted above. He seems to view it mostly as something akin to superstition. Not naming Voldemort apparently gives him power...not mystical power, emotional power. So (speculation) I think one of the signs his reign of terror is over will be when people feel safe enough to say his name. Charmian....(remember to spell my name correctly, it increases my power!) From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 02:39:24 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:39:24 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Another question about the British school system Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8872 I think so too, bc sometimes potions is 1 hr vs 2, I have this for some AP classes, and it is completely no fun! But my theory as to why Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs arent in Care of Magical Creatures is bc i always firgured that kids picked classes as to house traits. It would make sense to me that Ravenclaw kids would be taking hard "Hermioniesque" classes such as Arithmancy, and that HUfflepuffs would be into Muggle studies. Didn't Ron say that one of the Hufflepuffs, maybe Ernie McMilllan, says that Hermione has never missed a Muggle Studies class?? Anyways, just my take. And in case you want to argue, "well, hermione took all those classes too...", IMO, the sorting hat was maybe slightly torn between Ravenclaw and Gryffindor, BUT she had such confidence in herself and her abilities and that that is a lot like courage, like she was ready for whatever it had thrown at her.... Stephanie > >I feel pretty sure that "Double" classes are just twice as long as > >the other classes. Most of the time when they're referring to their > >schedules, it seems like the "Double" classes are more than an hour > >long - I think they even refer to Double Potions as being at least > >two hours long. Which makes sense if you think about it - an hour > >doesn't seem to be long enough to do potions or herbology. > > > >And then you also have Care of Magical Creatures - Harry and company > >have that with the Slytherin (although, as an elective class, I never > >quite got why all of Gryffindor signed up and all of Slytherin signed > >up) and that only seems to be an hour. > > >Maybe the Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws have it together, or maybe they are >just not couragous enough for such a scary class like Care of Magical >Creatures.... Aaahhh look at the scary flubberworm... Ohhh no its eating >my >book. Now its eating my hand. Nevermind its just eating a bit of >lettuce that i had in mmy hand.. > >Okay now seriously, i bet that if they have a non double class, it is used >for taking notes, much like the whole lecture/lab system that works so >(not) >wonderfully. > >-Kassie > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 02:45:07 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 20:45:07 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Double Potions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8873 I always wondered how they seem to get so much done for their short classes. I am on what we call block scheduling, meaning i have 4 classes for 1.5 hrs every other day, and sometimes that STILL isnt enough for labs like CHem and Physics and even ANatomy....ANd they do do a lot of work, esp in potions and herbology, so it is good they have more time, but what about DADA, I would have thought that the Boggart excersize and getting into the staff room would have taken more than 45 minutes.... Stephanie >Actually, my classes at school were only 40 minutes long. It makes sense, >since the average attention span is only 20 minutes. Of course, it's a bit >of a shock when you get to university and have hour-long courses... > >--John _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 10 02:42:23 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:42:23 -0000 Subject: Draco Dormiens in the Classroom In-Reply-To: <93gdun+10mra@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93gi6f+sb2n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8874 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > They all copied down the title and Cassie's ff.net alias (as did some > of the actors who were training for the main parts in Peter Pan). > Ebony, You do realize some of your students may randomly click on your name, in Cassie's review list and end up on your page? And read your fics? I wonder how long your incognito will last? Be careful if you write any heavy duty snogging...Someone might want you to read it out loud! (Pippin grins impishly, imagining life imitating art ) From readbaby at ivillage.com Wed Jan 10 02:47:54 2001 From: readbaby at ivillage.com (readbaby at ivillage.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 02:47:54 -0000 Subject: genius Message-ID: <93gigq+521e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8875 just a sid point about j.k. rolling's genius; isnt it amazing how much like the internet tom riddle's diary is? how dangerous is it for a kid to chat with people on the internet that he/she doesnt know? wow! your thoughts? From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 10 04:55:43 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:55:43 -0600 Subject: Casting suggestion Message-ID: <3A5BEB4F.C32E2E13@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8876 Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British (probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 10 05:06:32 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:06:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort sexist in hiring practices? References: Message-ID: <3A5BEDD8.F329613C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8877 Amy Z wrote: > I think most people assume them to be them because Mrs. Lestrange is > >the only female death eater so far. (New thread topic: Voldemort sexist in > >hiring practices?) > > LOL! > > Nah--women are just less corruptible than men. ;-) And/or too smart to get caught... --Amanda From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 05:07:52 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 05:07:52 -0000 Subject: Draco Dormiens in the Classroom In-Reply-To: <93gi6f+sb2n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93gqn8+svo4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8878 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > Ebony, > You do realize some of your students may randomly click on your name, in Cassie's review list and end up on your page? And read your fics? > I wonder how long your incognito will last? > Be careful if you write any heavy duty snogging...Someone might want you to read it out loud! > (Pippin grins impishly, imagining life imitating art ) Thanks *so* much, Pippin. Yet another Horrible Thought to keep me awake at 3 o' clock in the morning. I doubt most of my students would appreciate the characters all grown- up anyway. When I told my fifth graders last year, "A lot of adults like these books too," they were dumbfounded. "But these books are for kids." "Well, adults were kids once too." "But they're not now." It's okay for a teacher to like the books, but I'm not sure I could explain HP4GU or the PoU phenomenon. They would not get it at all. So they might click on the link, but not be extremely interested in the content IMO. --Ebony From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 10 05:12:04 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:12:04 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snitch keychains References: <20010108234551.4023.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <3A5BEF24.2A0936D6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8879 voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > > who hasn't caved in and bought a piece of merchandise yet...but who wouldn't say no to a Golden Snitch keychain > > Oh my goodness, you're a better woman than I! (I think my husband is getting me the new Erised Mirror - yay!) Be careful of the keychains--the little soft stuffed ones are wonderful, but I've seen some smaller metal versions that would put a dent in your foot even before you put the keys on, would chip your windshield if you hung them from your rearview, and have very small-diameter joinings of the wings to the ball, inviting breakage. --Amanda, informed consumer From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 05:25:25 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:25:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8880 I think Lockhart SHOULD be an American. Not to say that the British are anti-American AT ALL...but it would explain his resentment of the teachers(aside from the fact they know he is a phoney)...Plus, all the fame, fortune, glory etc seems like typical American behavior to me, but then again I am American So, I kind of thought Lockhart should be someone like Sean Patrick Flannery....kind of young, but no too much so....But then again, that is just me. Stephanie... >Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British >(probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. > >--Amanda > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From summers.65 at osu.edu Wed Jan 10 06:00:32 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:00:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 418 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8881 >Have you read "Paradigm of Uncertainty" yet? Lori really is the >Captain of the H/H Ship, and there's plenty of laughs and action, too. > And y'all better start saluting me, you scurvy knaves! Yo ho ho and a bottle of milk. :-) Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "The Cell" Discman's spinning: "Bad Hair Day" Weird Al Yankovic Nighttable: "The Lost Continent" by Bill Bryson *************************************************** From joym999 at aol.com Wed Jan 10 07:35:09 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:35:09 -0000 Subject: Chapter 25 Summary Message-ID: <93h3bd+rj17@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8882 Chapter 25: The Egg and the Eye In which Harry Discovers the Clue in the Egg, and is Saved from Snape and Filch by Mad-Eye Moody. This chapter once again chronicles Harry's nighttime wanderings. (Doesn't that boy ever get any sleep?). In the first half of the chapter (The Egg), Harry takes Cedric's advice and heads off to the prefect's bathroom to try to unravel the clue in the egg. As precautions against getting caught by Filch, Harry wears his invisibility cloak and also takes along the Marauder's Map. The prefect's bathroom turns out to be quite a place. Full of marble fixtures, lit by chandeliers, and a bathtub the size of a swimming pool with a hundred golden taps with jeweled handles, each with a different sort of bubble bath. While Harry enjoys the luxurious surroundings, he can not figure out how they can help him decipher the clue. Fortunately, unexpected help, in the form of Moaning Myrtle, arrives. It turns out that our old whiny pal Myrtle is in the habit of haunting the prefects bathroom, claiming that she keeps her eyes shut when anyone is getting in or out of the tub. Sure you do, Myrtle. Anyway, Myrtle feeds Harry the clue to the egg, bit by agonizing bit. The song that the egg sings is only intelligible underwater, and the song seems to indicate that for the Second Triwizard Task Harry will have an hour to recover something he will "sorely miss," which will be found underwater with the merpeople who live in the lake. Not a pretty prospect, as Harry doesn't swim well, and also because the lake seems to be the repository of Hogwarts' sewage. Yech! The only thing Harry can't figure out is how he is supposed to breathe underwater, and asking Myrtle advice on this matter sends her off into a fit of hysterics. Apparently, any talk of breathing hurts her feelings. Myrtle starts blathering a long story about haunting a student who made fun of her which is only interesting because it reveals that the Ministry of Magic somehow has the power to make ghosts stop following people around and force them to haunt only a particular location (in or around the place where they died?). After his cozy little bath, Harry exits the prefect's bathroom and enters the second half of the chapter (The Eye). Rather than go straight back to bed like a good little boy, he manages to cause a heap o' trouble. He looks at the Marauder's Map, and notices that someone is moving around in Snape's office, and that someone is...Bartemius Crouch! But Mr. Crouch is supposed to be ill or missing or something, certainly not snooping around Snape's. Of course, we all know (because we've read this book HOW many times?) that the map is referring to Moody disguised as Bartemius Crouch, Jr., who (fortunately for the sake of the plot) has the same name as his father. Harry sets off to investigate, but isn't paying attention on the staircase and manages to fall into the trick step. He drops both the egg and the map and all hell breaks loose. The egg, of course, opens and starts screaming. Harry's leg is stuck and the Marauder's Map is just out of his reach. He wraps up tightly in the Invisibility Cloak, just in the nick of time as Filch and Mrs. Norris appear. Filch thinks that Peeves has stolen one of the champion's eggs and starts walking up the stairs where Harry is invisibly stuck in a step, but then Snape shows up. It seems that Snape has noticed that his office has been opened and searched and wants Filch to help him find the intruder, but Filch wants to chase after Peeves. Filch and Snape are arguing about this when Moody shows up to join the party. Harry is unpleasantly surprised to discover that Moody's Mad Eye seems to be able to see through his invisibility cloak. Moody and Snape have a snippy little accusatory back-and-forth about who is hiding what, in which Moody implies that Snape is both a Death Eater and out to do no good to Harry Potter (of course we know that it is Moody who is guilty of both). In the course of this discussion, Snape mysteriously rubs a spot on his left forearm. Hmmm. Snape recognizes the map and the egg, and figures that Harry is hanging around in his invisibility cloak. However, Moody grabs the parchment, bullies Snape into leaving and Filch into giving him the egg. Moody pulls Harry out of the sticky step, and quizzes him about the map. Moody is "surprised" to learn that Harry knows that it was Crouch searching Snape's office. Moody is undoubtedly dismayed to see his real name on the map, and borrows the map. He keeps up his Auror act beautifully, however, even suggesting that Harry would make a good Auror. Not much of a compliment, considering the source. Discussion Questions: 1. Do both male and female prefects use this prefect's bathroom? At the same time? (I'll bet a lot of teenagers would enjoy that.) 2. Do the Hogwarts toilets really empty directly into the lake? Isn't that a little, um, unhealthy, especially for the merpeople and the giant squid? Or do wizards have a sewage treatment spell built into the pipes? (Neutralizum Poopus?) 3. The second half of this chapter reads completely differently when you know that Moody is really Crouch, Jr. and that Snape was once a Death Eater and has a mark on his arm. Everyone (except maybe Filch) is maneuvering to save his own butt. I just had no clue anything weird was going on here the first time I read it, did you? 4. (This has been discussed before.) When Harry is stuck in the stairway, why doesn't he say "Accio Map" to get the Marauder's Map out of the way? 5. There are an awful lot of close shaves in this chapter. (You would think it was an Indiana Jones movie.) The invisibility cloak saves Harry from Filch; Snape saves Harry from Filch again; Moody/Crouch saves Harry from Snape; Moody/Crouch takes the map to save himself. Have I missed anything? Well, I am going back into catchup mode, as my little trip to the Caribbean Sorcery Convention put me about a 1000 messages behind. I can't help wishing you all had made a New Year's Resolution to be less wordy. --Joywitch From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Jan 10 08:49:27 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:49:27 -0000 Subject: Holy cow, Ebony!/John's fic! In-Reply-To: <93g9po+opnh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93h7mn+olb1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8883 Jerlayn wrote: So did you just get the longest EVER review on ff.net?!? > Eb wrote: No--the Queen of Long Reviews was, is, and forevermore shall be Cassie. ;) > I think I do win, mainly because of rave, who posted her "alternative version of DS Chapter 9" to ff.net in the form of a review to that chapter which went on for several pages, and was also in and of itself much better reading than most of the fanfics on ff.net. And I also wanted to second the praise for John's fic...it's wonderful. Cassie From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 8 22:00:50 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 08 Jan 2001 17:00:50 -0500 Subject: Dai's Unpleasant Adventure; "Cup" trophies Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8884 "Dai Evans" Any relation? I do hope your housing situation has picked up. Meredith asked: "I went through some of the other pictures there, most specifically the trophy case. Does it bother anyone else that the Quidditch Cup isn't a cup?" Simon replied: "No. Just because it is called a cup does not mean that it is one." Yeah. The World Cup (football/soccer) isn't a cup, and when I read the Quidditch Cup section it reminded me of the World Cup throughout: the crowds of course, the only-once-every-several-years excitement, the incredible attendance from all around the world with flags etc. to match, the British hooligans (sorry Brits, but as a soccer fan who's forever hearing "aren't there RIOTS at those things" when I tell family I'm going to a match, I want non-soccer-fans to know that hooliganism is largely confined to a couple of countries). I don't know if JKR is a football fan or has ever been to the Cup, but her description sounded just like Pasadena in '94. Except that we didn't have any hooliganism . Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 10 12:06:56 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:06:56 -0000 Subject: World cup and OT stuff on education Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8885 Meredith asked: "I went through some of the other pictures there, most specifically the trophy case. Does it bother anyone else that the Quidditch Cup isn't a cup?" Simon replied: "No. Just because it is called a cup does not mean that it is one." Amy z wrote: "Yeah. The World Cup (football/soccer) isn't a cup, and when I read the Quidditch Cup section it reminded me of the World Cup throughout: the crowds of course, the only-once-every-several-years excitement, the incredible attendance from all around the world with flags etc. to match, the British hooligans (sorry Brits, but as a soccer fan who's forever hearing "aren't there RIOTS at those things" when I tell family I'm going to a match, I want non-soccer-fans to know that hooliganism is largely confined to a couple of countries). I don't know if JKR is a football fan or has ever been to the Cup, but her description sounded just like Pasadena in '94. Except that we didn't have any hooliganism ." When I was writing my message about the cup not having to actually be a cup I was searching for an example and I could not think of one. Now Amy points out that I missed a very obvious one. When referring to hooligans you may as well drop the British in favour of the English. Rarely do any other parts of Britain cause trouble at football matches, but the English seem to manage it at every game they go to! John wrote: "Isn't it amazing how one gets up at 7am or earlier (well, 7.15 for me) every day to get to school for 5+ years, and then upon reaching university, even 10 am seems like an early rise?" I used to get up a nearer 8 am - school started at 8:50 am and I had a twenty-minute journey to get there (I was really happy when I passed my driving test and so could drive instead - made the journey a couple of minutes instead). It was A-levels that had the bad effect on me. That was when I gave up eating a proper breakfast (or even eating it on some days). I think schools and universities have a lot to answer for - especially why I find it easiest to start work at 9 pm when most sensible people have long finished it! Simon From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 14:30:19 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:30:19 -0000 Subject: Casting suggestion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93hrlr+10c15@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8886 Two words -- Cary Elwes. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: Ilike Sean Patrick Flannery....kind of young, but no too much so....But then > again, that is just me. > > Stephanie... Kevin Kline would act the part perfectly, but he doesn't look right. BTW, I want Kenneth Branagh for Lupin and the Fiennes brother who isn't Ralph for Sirius Black [the one from Shakespeare in Love] > >Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British > >(probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. > > > >--Amanda From bkdelong at pobox.com Wed Jan 10 14:36:37 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:36:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion In-Reply-To: <93hrlr+10c15@eGroups.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010110093601.05775c20@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8887 At 02:30 PM 01/10/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Two words -- Cary Elwes. My thoughts EXACTALLY. From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 10 14:49:02 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:49:02 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE48@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8888 How about Hugh Grant? Angela > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Ferer [SMTP:jferer at yahoo.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:30 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion > > Two words -- Cary Elwes. > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" > wrote: > Ilike Sean Patrick Flannery....kind of young, but no too much > so....But then > > again, that is just me. > > > > Stephanie... > > Kevin Kline would act the part perfectly, but he doesn't look right. > BTW, I want Kenneth Branagh for Lupin and the Fiennes brother who > isn't Ralph for Sirius Black [the one from Shakespeare in Love] > > >Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British > > >(probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. > > > > > >--Amanda > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 14:52:20 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:52:20 -0000 Subject: Casting suggestion In-Reply-To: <93hrlr+10c15@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93hsv5+pbse@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8889 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote (regarding casting for Lockhart): > Two words -- Cary Elwes. > How about this unorthodox idea Pierce Brosnan as Lockhart? It could be hillarious as a self parody (The name is Lockhart, Gilderoy Lockhart). Naama From lmrourke at snet.net Wed Jan 10 15:49:57 2001 From: lmrourke at snet.net (Lisa Rourke) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:49:57 -0500 Subject: Voldemort's name and Double classes Message-ID: <002f01c07b1c$ff9305e0$4bd43ccc@krass> No: HPFGUIDX 8890 Not everyone is afraid to say Voldemort's true name besides Harry and Dumbledore. Harry is surprised to hear Professor Lupin say his name ( pg. 155 American edition PoA) and Sirius also uses Voldemort's name in ch. 19 PoA when speaking to Pettigrew. It's interesting to note that very few people do call him by his real name. Even Professor McGonagall doesn't like to say his name and only does so at Dumbledore's urging (PS/SS). As to the Double classes, I always assumed that that meant they had that particular class (Herbology, Potions or Care of Magical Creatures) with another House. They usually have Double Potions and Double Care of Magical Creatures with the Slytherins and Double Herbology with the Hufflepuffs. All their other classes they have on their own. It may also apply to the amount of time in those particular classes because they would have twice the number of students too, I guess. But that's what I always thought :-) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Wed Jan 10 16:00:14 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:00:14 -0000 Subject: Chapter 25 Summary In-Reply-To: <93h3bd+rj17@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93i0ue+58p0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8891 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > Chapter 25: The Egg and the Eye >While Harry enjoys the luxurious surroundings, he can not figure out >how they can help him decipher the clue. Fortunately, unexpected >help, in the form of Moaning Myrtle, arrives. It turns out that our >old whiny pal Myrtle is in the habit of haunting the prefects >bathroom, claiming that she keeps her eyes shut when anyone is >getting in or out of the tub. Sure you do, Myrtle. > Isn't Myrtle a wonderful character? I think she is the best expression of JKR's genius-level sense of humor. > >Harry is unpleasantly surprised to discover that Moody's > Mad Eye seems to be able to see through his invisibility cloak. I'm not at all sure about this and I don't have the book with me to check (I'm reprehesibly doing this at work), but - didn't Harry already find this out at the pub? IIRC he was sitting there with Hermione, cloacked, when Moody enters with Hagrid and sees him. > Discussion Questions: > > 1. Do both male and female prefects use this prefect's bathroom? >At the same time? (I'll bet a lot of teenagers would enjoy that.) Oh, and adults wouldn't? Seriously though, I doubt that its meant for communal bathing at all, although its so big. Harry locked the door, right? That makes it more probable that its meant for an individual, albeit luxurious, bathing. > > 2. Do the Hogwarts toilets really empty directly into the lake? > Isn't that a little, um, unhealthy, especially for the merpeople >and the giant squid? Or do wizards have a sewage treatment spell >built into the pipes? (Neutralizum Poopus?) LOL! I doubt that special treatment is necessary, though. If the lake is wide and deep enough (and from the description it seems it is) the ecosystem there would easily absorb the organic waste that Hogwarts produces (I think. Any environmental specialists on this list?). > > 3. The second half of this chapter reads completely differently when > you know that Moody is really Crouch, Jr. and that Snape was once a > Death Eater and has a mark on his arm. Everyone (except maybe Filch) > is maneuvering to save his own butt. I just had no clue anything > weird was going on here the first time I read it, did you? Nope. > > 4. (This has been discussed before.) When Harry is stuck in the > stairway, why doesn't he say "Accio Map" to get the Marauder's Map > out of the way? > Well, I think he was too confused and scared to think clearly. Also, his attention was focused more on the screaming egg. Then, once Filch arrived, he couldn't do anything that would attract attention. Naama From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 10 16:08:12 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:08:12 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] HP Fossil Watch Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8892 Stephanie was sayin': ** Ahhh....see, I DO have a reg WB HP watch, but the foddil ** watch coming out is ** supposed to be a really nice one with a metal band like the ** rest of theirs ** are, and IT wont be out till May....but thats ok, who ** cares....I have a HP ** watch, though i will prob break down and buy the other when ** it comes out. Oh! Dang... now I'll have to be on the lookout for that one! I'm a bit of a watch fanatic as it is, and I love my fossils (though none of mine have metal bands...). I have a really great Batman fossil watch. What's the face supposed to look like? Meredith From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 10 16:14:39 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:14:39 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8893 Hear, hear! Meredith ** Two words -- Cary Elwes. ** ** --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" ** wrote: ** Ilike Sean Patrick Flannery....kind of young, but no too much ** so....But then ** > again, that is just me. ** > ** > Stephanie... ** ** Kevin Kline would act the part perfectly, but he doesn't ** look right. ** BTW, I want Kenneth Branagh for Lupin and the Fiennes brother who ** isn't Ralph for Sirius Black [the one from Shakespeare in Love] ** > >Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British ** > >(probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. ** > > ** > >--Amanda ** ** ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 10 16:15:42 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:15:42 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8894 ** --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote ** (regarding casting for Lockhart): ** > Two words -- Cary Elwes. ** > ** ** How about this unorthodox idea Pierce Brosnan as Lockhart? It could ** be hillarious as a self parody (The name is Lockhart, Gilderoy ** Lockhart). ** ** Naama ** Ooh, that would be good, too, though I have a hard time picturing Pierce as blond... But he certainly has the smile. Meredith From ak928 at barnard.edu Wed Jan 10 16:36:52 2001 From: ak928 at barnard.edu (Ashley Kelly) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 11:36:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fin Fiction Help Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8895 Well, I told myself that I would not read any fan fiction until JKR had completed the series, but yesterday I gave in and decided to read PoU and the four chapters of its sequel. Now, a former R/H shipper I am questioning my loyalties. To even the playing field, can someone please give me a link to a good fan fic that has an R/H slant so I can see which I prefer. Also, has Lori written any more of her series. I am hungry for more already. I really hope she has! Ashley From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Jan 10 16:25:38 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:25:38 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion References: <3A5BEB4F.C32E2E13@texas.net> Message-ID: <01fe01c07b23$3d9dd6c0$222907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8896 > Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British > (probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. > --Amanda You know, I read a few suggestions that Lockhart could/should be played by an American and I even like the idea. And Kevin Kline... if he'd get the job I'd be really delighted (and laugh my head off, b/c my list of most-sexy actors goes Alan Rickman, Kevin Kline, John Cleese, so they'd all be in there). I think Greg Kinnear would do a great job. Dinah 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 17:04:50 2001 From: flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com (Michelle M.) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:04:50 -0000 Subject: Chapter 25 Summary In-Reply-To: <93i0ue+58p0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93i4ni+10q87@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8897 In regards to your question about the raw sewage in the lake, (I am a QA Officer for an environmental water and soil testing firm) with approx. 1000 students and the staff residing at Hogwarts, there would definitely be a big impact on the lake, and the smell would be horrendous. I'm sure that JKR would have some magical explanation as to why this isn't a problem for them, however. It's probably what the giant squid feeds off of (think i'll skip the calamari, thanks). Michelle (momentary de-lurk) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "naama " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > Chapter 25: The Egg and the Eye > >While Harry enjoys the luxurious surroundings, he can not figure out > >how they can help him decipher the clue. Fortunately, unexpected > >help, in the form of Moaning Myrtle, arrives. It turns out that our > >old whiny pal Myrtle is in the habit of haunting the prefects > >bathroom, claiming that she keeps her eyes shut when anyone is > >getting in or out of the tub. Sure you do, Myrtle. > > > Isn't Myrtle a wonderful character? I think she is the best > expression of JKR's genius-level sense of humor. > > > > >Harry is unpleasantly surprised to discover that Moody's > > Mad Eye seems to be able to see through his invisibility cloak. > > I'm not at all sure about this and I don't have the book with me to > check (I'm reprehesibly doing this at work), but - didn't Harry > already find this out at the pub? IIRC he was sitting there with > Hermione, cloacked, when Moody enters with Hagrid and sees him. > > > > > Discussion Questions: > > > > 1. Do both male and female prefects use this prefect's bathroom? > >At the same time? (I'll bet a lot of teenagers would enjoy that.) > > Oh, and adults wouldn't? Seriously though, I doubt that its meant for > communal bathing at all, although its so big. Harry locked the door, > right? That makes it more probable that its meant for an individual, > albeit luxurious, bathing. > > > > 2. Do the Hogwarts toilets really empty directly into the lake? > > Isn't that a little, um, unhealthy, especially for the merpeople > >and the giant squid? Or do wizards have a sewage treatment spell > >built into the pipes? (Neutralizum Poopus?) > > LOL! > > I doubt that special treatment is necessary, though. If the lake is > wide and deep enough (and from the description it seems it is) the > ecosystem there would easily absorb the organic waste that Hogwarts > produces (I think. Any environmental specialists on this list?). > > > > > > 3. The second half of this chapter reads completely differently > when > > you know that Moody is really Crouch, Jr. and that Snape was once a > > Death Eater and has a mark on his arm. Everyone (except maybe > Filch) > > is maneuvering to save his own butt. I just had no clue anything > > weird was going on here the first time I read it, did you? > > Nope. > > > > > > 4. (This has been discussed before.) When Harry is stuck in the > > stairway, why doesn't he say "Accio Map" to get the Marauder's Map > > out of the way? > > > Well, I think he was too confused and scared to think clearly. Also, > his attention was focused more on the screaming egg. Then, once Filch > arrived, he couldn't do anything that would attract attention. > > > > Naama From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 10 18:03:13 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:03:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion References: <3A5BEB4F.C32E2E13@texas.net> <01fe01c07b23$3d9dd6c0$222907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A5CA3E0.ABCDCEEC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8898 Dinah wrote: > You know, I read a few suggestions that Lockhart could/should be played by > an American and I even like the idea. And Kevin Kline... if he'd get the job > I'd be really delighted (and laugh my head off, b/c my list of most-sexy > actors goes Alan Rickman, Kevin Kline, John Cleese, so they'd all be in > there). Ha, HAAAH! Another Rickman fan. We will overcome, o Ye who think he's too old.... --Amanda From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 10 18:09:53 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:09:53 -0000 Subject: Chapter 25 Summary In-Reply-To: <93i4ni+10q87@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93i8hh+tljr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8899 - > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > > > Chapter 25: The Egg and the Eye > > > > > > 3. The second half of this chapter reads completely differently > > when > > > you know that Moody is really Crouch, Jr. and that Snape was once > a > > > Death Eater and has a mark on his arm. Everyone (except maybe > > Filch) > > > is maneuvering to save his own butt. I just had no clue anything > > > weird was going on here the first time I read it, did you? > > Yes, I have to say it struck me that Snape grabbing his arm was significant. It also struck me that Snape ought to know darn well where the trick step is, and that the Marauder's Map *is* a map (he saw it in PoA) which made me wonder if his attempt to put his hands on Harry was for real. Pippin From john at walton.to Wed Jan 10 18:11:52 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:11:52 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 418 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8900 summers.65 at osu.edu wrote: >> Have you read "Paradigm of Uncertainty" yet? Lori really is the >> Captain of the H/H Ship, and there's plenty of laughs and action, too. >> > > And y'all better start saluting me, you scurvy knaves! Yo ho ho and a > bottle of milk. Bottle of baby oil, surely? --John, Cabin Boy #47 of the H/H ship :D ("Get out of the cabin, boy!" the captain yelled. --"What? I never touched him!" the first mate replied shiftily.) ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George W.?Bush will make abortion illegal because "it's not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet."-Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000 ======================================== From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 10 18:28:21 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 10:28:21 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8901 ** Dinah wrote: ** ** > You know, I read a few suggestions that Lockhart ** could/should be played by ** > an American and I even like the idea. And Kevin Kline... ** if he'd get the job ** > I'd be really delighted (and laugh my head off, b/c my ** list of most-sexy ** > actors goes Alan Rickman, Kevin Kline, John Cleese, so ** they'd all be in ** > there). ** ** Ha, HAAAH! Another Rickman fan. We will overcome, o Ye who ** think he's too ** old.... ** ** --Amanda You can add me to that list! Mer From john at walton.to Wed Jan 10 18:27:15 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:27:15 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion In-Reply-To: <3A5CA3E0.ABCDCEEC@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8902 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Ha, HAAAH! Another Rickman fan. We will overcome, o Ye who think he's too > old.... > > --Amanda Oh, I don't think he's too old. My problem was that I'm going to be visualising him as the Spock character from GalaxyQuest: "By the Twin Pillars of Vroon, Potter!" --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to My parents retired to Florida and all I got was this lousy President. ======================================== From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Jan 10 18:07:38 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:07:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fan Fiction Help References: Message-ID: <005701c07b30$38de18e0$9962d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8903 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Kelly" > Well, I told myself that I would not read any fan fiction until > JKR had completed the series, but yesterday I gave in and decided to read > PoU and the four chapters of its sequel. Now, a former R/H shipper I am > questioning my loyalties. Mwahahahahaha...Lori has converted many to the H/H ship. > To even the playing field, can someone please give me a link to a > good fan fic that has an R/H slant so I can see which I prefer. > Also, has Lori written any more of her series. I am hungry for > more already. I really hope she has! > Chapter 4 was the last she posted and she usually gets a chapter out every few weeks. However, Penny and I have written a prequel to Lori's world called A Sirius Affair. It can be found on ff.net or over at the PoU egroup (link on this egroup's home page). We use Lori's history and tell the story of the time around and about when Harry turns 21 (before Bailicroft). We also feature Sirius and his travails to justice...maybe... carole > Ashley > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Jan 10 18:11:17 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:11:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion References: <93hrlr+10c15@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006101c07b30$bb32f720$9962d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8904 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Ferer" > BTW, I want Kenneth Branagh for Lupin and the Fiennes brother who > isn't Ralph for Sirius Black [the one from Shakespeare in Love] Noooooooo....while I like Joseph (I think that's his name) Fiennes, he's too slight (short, skinny, young looking) for Sirius. The only one who could do Sirius justice is Daniel Day-Lewis (see him in "Last of the Mohicans" with long hair.) This is who I picture when I write. carole From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Wed Jan 10 18:55:39 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:55:39 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion References: <3A5BEB4F.C32E2E13@texas.net> <01fe01c07b23$3d9dd6c0$222907d5@oemcomputer> <3A5CA3E0.ABCDCEEC@texas.net> Message-ID: <004401c07b36$ee079a60$9d5e063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 8905 > > Ha, HAAAH! Another Rickman fan. We will overcome, o Ye who think he's too > old.... > Count me in. But to add to his kudos, if Snape was really heavily a Death Eater at one point, then his face would show the strain of breaking away. Oh, and whoever suggested Michael Ironside for Moody, I agree ( as long as he really can do the accent ! ). Michelle From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Jan 10 19:01:31 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:01:31 -0000 Subject: Fin Fiction Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93ibib+qdqh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8906 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ashley Kelly wrote: > Well, I told myself that I would not read any fan fiction until > JKR had completed the series, but yesterday I gave in and decided to read > PoU and the four chapters of its sequel. Now, a former R/H shipper I am > questioning my loyalties. > To even the playing field, can someone please give me a link to a > good fan fic that has an R/H slant so I can see which I prefer. > Also, has Lori written any more of her series. I am hungry for > more already. I really hope she has! > > Ashley ---------------------------------------------------- Good R/H fics.... "In the Bleak Midwinter" by morgead is the best straight R/H fic I know. It actually has a plot, which is a nice change. Then I want to recommend Ebony's story...which is R/H but then again, it kind of isn't...oh, just go read it because it's really, really good. Ebony writes under AngieJ on ff.net and the story is called "Trouble in Paradise". Lori has written 4 chapters of a sequel to PoU, called The Show that Never Ends, and Penny and Carole have written a great prequel called A Sirius Affair. All these can be found on ff.net or on the PoU egroup in the files section. Cassandra From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 19:11:45 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:11:45 -0000 Subject: Fin Fiction Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93ic5h+3lmi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8907 It's definitely not *pro*-R/H, but you really ought to read Ebony's excellent "Trouble in Paradise", about an R/H marriage going sour, told from the original viewpoint of Angelina Johnson, now Fred Weasley's wife. Ebony is really searching the souls of these characters; I've discovered a lot about them. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ashley Kelly wrote: Well, I told myself that I would not read any fan fiction until JKR had completed the series, but yesterday I gave in and decided to read PoU and the four chapters of its sequel. Now, a former R/H shipper I am questioning my loyalties. To even the playing field, can someone please give me a link to a good fan fic that has an R/H slant so I can see which I prefer. Also, has Lori written any more of her series. I am hungry for more already. I really hope she has! > > Ashley From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 19:17:44 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:17:44 -0000 Subject: Casting suggestion In-Reply-To: <006101c07b30$bb32f720$9962d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <93icgo+acgr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8908 I definitely could picture Daniel Day-Lewis. Sirius *is* young (35 tops) and gaunt. Joseph (I think you're right) Fiennes has that intensity Sirius needs. But Lewis? No problem. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Ferer" > > > > BTW, I want Kenneth Branagh for Lupin and the Fiennes brother who > > isn't Ralph for Sirius Black [the one from Shakespeare in Love] > > Noooooooo....while I like Joseph (I think that's his name) Fiennes, he's too > slight (short, skinny, young looking) for Sirius. The only one who could do > Sirius justice is Daniel Day-Lewis (see him in "Last of the Mohicans" with > long hair.) This is who I picture when I write. > > carole From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 10 19:21:23 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:21:23 -0400 Subject: Alan Rickman Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE4E@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8909 > From: Michelle Apostolides [SMTP:michelleapostolides at lineone.net] > Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 2:56 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion > > > > > Ha, HAAAH! Another Rickman fan. We will overcome, o Ye who think he's > too > > old.... > > > Count me in. But to add to his kudos, if Snape was really heavily a > Death Eater at one point, then his face would show the strain of > breaking away. > Was I the only one who found the Sheriff more interesting than Robin in "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves"? I *hated* how pretentious the movie was, but Rickman stood out as someone worth watching. Don't even get me started on Demi Moore showing the Puritans the power of feminism in "The Scarlet Letter". Angela From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 10 19:35:09 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:35:09 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestions Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE4F@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8910 I could see Robert Carlyle as Lupin ... he looked good and scruffy in "The Full Monty". Angela From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Wed Jan 10 19:45:27 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 19:45:27 -0000 Subject: Alan Rickman In-Reply-To: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE4E@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <93ie4n+uou@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8911 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ABoyko at s... wrote: > Was I the only one who found the Sheriff more interesting than Robin > in "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves"? I *hated* how pretentious the movie was, > but Rickman stood out as someone worth watching. > > Angela Well he had the right accent for a start... Dai From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 10 19:59:07 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:59:07 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Way OT-Rickman comment References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE4E@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <3A5CBF0B.78FE36BF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8912 ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > Was I the only one who found the Sheriff more interesting than Robin > in "Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves"? I *hated* how pretentious the movie was, > but Rickman stood out as someone worth watching. You weren't. In fact, they cut some scenes with Rickman, because Kevin Costner was aware that his movie was being stolen from him....it seemed that in the "exit polls" after the preliminary showings, people found the sherriff more memorable than Robin Hood. --Amanda From pbnesbit at msn.com Wed Jan 10 20:13:45 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:13:45 -0000 Subject: Fanfiction Message-ID: <93ifpp+ddet@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8913 To all HP Fanfiction writers (particularly Lori) I've been reading some of the fanfiction. It's absolutely Fantastic!! My kudos to everyone. I particularly love Paradigm of Uncertainty. Thanks Lori! Parker From pbnesbit at msn.com Wed Jan 10 20:22:26 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:22:26 -0000 Subject: Alan Rickman Message-ID: <93iga2+elph@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8914 Hi all, Oh, so I see there are other Alan Rickman fans out there!! I've seen Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves about 6 or 7 times & it was only for Rickman after the first time. He makes a great villain. I was picturing him in my mind (as Sheriff of Nottingham) when I read SS/PS! Parker From readbaby at ivillage.com Wed Jan 10 20:24:07 2001 From: readbaby at ivillage.com (readbaby at ivillage.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:24:07 -0000 Subject: tom riddle's diary In-Reply-To: <93gigq+521e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93igd7+1aeq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8915 just a side point about j.k. rolling's genius; isnt it amazing how much like the internet tom riddle's diary is? how dangerous is it for a kid to chat with people on the internet that he/she doesnt know? wow! your thoughts? From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 20:59:42 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:59:42 -0000 Subject: Casting suggestion In-Reply-To: <93hrlr+10c15@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93iifu+4igr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8916 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > Two words -- Cary Elwes. > Now there's a thought! That's the first person other than who I've been imagining that would work for me. Before this I have only ever imagined Daniel Lapaine (I believe he's Australian?) playing Lockhart. There was a scene in the 10th Kingdom (a miniseries from last year), where Lapaine, playing a dog who's been turned into a prince, enters his coronation ball, slides down the bannister and stands, hands on hips, turns his face slightly to one side and smiles this huge corny grin. This pose is exactly how I picture Lockhart's many many pics of himself. The grin is so big, and the teeth are so white, that I was expecting there to be a little 'Ding' and a white star gleaming on them. Plus he's already got wavy blond hair, and he can do both self-important snobbery and slapstick goofiness. But if I don't get my way and have Lapaine, I could settle for Elwes. > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" > wrote: > Ilike Sean Patrick Flannery....kind of young, but no too much > so....But then > > again, that is just me. > > > > Stephanie... > > Kevin Kline would act the part perfectly, but he doesn't look right. > BTW, I want Kenneth Branagh for Lupin and the Fiennes brother who > isn't Ralph for Sirius Black [the one from Shakespeare in Love] > > >Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British > > >(probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. Kline's not British. He's from my neck of the woods - somewhere in the St. Louis area. I want to say Afton (one of the suburbs), but I think that's wrong. I think John Goodman's the one who's from Afton. I love Kevin Kline, and I'm sure he could do it, but I'd still far rather see Lapaine or even Elwes in the role. Just my contribution on the matter, kimberly > > > > > >--Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Jan 10 19:26:37 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:26:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion (Oh Neil, lol!) References: Message-ID: <003c01c07b50$63e62080$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 8917 Chuckles.... Oh, Neil. We're back to casting again? Aren't you the one doing the FAQ on this? Grins wickedly. Somewhere in that FAQ is my own agreement with Mr. Elwes! I watch Princess Bride, over and over, and each time, I can see him as our "favorite" professor perfectly! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Meredith Wilson To: 'HPforGrownups at egroups.com' Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:14 AM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion Hear, hear! Meredith ** Two words -- Cary Elwes. ** ** --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" ** wrote: ** Ilike Sean Patrick Flannery....kind of young, but no too much ** so....But then ** > again, that is just me. ** > ** > Stephanie... ** ** Kevin Kline would act the part perfectly, but he doesn't ** look right. ** BTW, I want Kenneth Branagh for Lupin and the Fiennes brother who ** isn't Ralph for Sirius Black [the one from Shakespeare in Love] ** > >Anyone think Kevin Kline would be a good Lockhart? Is he British ** > >(probably not, eh?). Or Val Kilmer. Alas. ** > > ** > >--Amanda ** ** ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** eGroups Sponsor Click here for Business information To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 15:12:15 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 10:12:15 -0500 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8918 Welcome, Fefe! Have no fear, your English is superb. Write that fanfiction you're dreaming about! Amy Z. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 10 21:57:22 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 17:57:22 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] tom riddle's diary Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE51@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8919 Oooh, never noticed that at all. Very nice parallel indeed. Not just on how dangerous it is for a 10 year old girl to pour her heart out to a stranger, but how you don't always get the whole picture. When Tom showed Harry the flashback, Harry thought that Hagrid was responsible for opening the Chamber of Secrets, when actually he was seeing Hagrid being framed. Think of some people you may have met in real life who weren't as they appeared online. >From my personal experience, the only person who turned out to be significantly different in real life was a woman who was a bit psycho. But I've heard stories of men who've stepped off the plane 200 pounds heavier than the picture they sent, etc. Angela From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 10 21:30:48 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:30:48 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Casting suggestion (Oh Neil, lol!) References: <003c01c07b50$63e62080$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <003201c07b4c$9a3a0b00$6d3470c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8920 Dee said:- > Chuckles.... > > Oh, Neil. We're back to casting again? Aren't you the one doing the FAQ on this? Grins wickedly. > > Somewhere in that FAQ is my own agreement with Mr. Elwes! I watch Princess Bride, over and over, and each time, I can see him as our "favorite" professor perfectly! Hmmm, thanks, Dee! It's a work in progress... Cary Elwes and Kevin Kline were mentioned a few times in the early days and somebody suggested Alan Rickman for Snape long before he was cast - it was one of very few correct guesses . For those of you interested in seeing pictures of actual, rumoured and suggested WB movie cast members, please check out the files area of this club, in the Graphics annex:- http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownUps-Graphics/Movie+Cast/ Co-moderator, Jim Flanagan has neatly arranged these files and many others for your viewing convenience... Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From bel_imperia at btinternet.com Wed Jan 10 23:03:47 2001 From: bel_imperia at btinternet.com (Alix Petty) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:03:47 -0000 Subject: Here Comes The Snape (filk) Message-ID: <004201c07b59$97cbde40$bba401d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8921 Be kind - this is my first attempt at filk... Here Comes The Snape (To the tune of 'Here Comes The Snake'...With apologies to The Cherry Poppin' Daddies...' Here comes the Snape - don't think of playing that jape! He comes to snap and snarl and make Neville quake, baby. Don't let him see your cauldron boil Cos that might make your lovely spoil. He's fond of Draco and his Slytherin mates But he's ticked off that they let Sirius escape Cos that Black he did him wrong Sending him down to Lupin, who was lupine and strong Ticked off is Snape. Is he a vampire or are he and Filch gay? And what he did to Voldy, he just won't say, baby. He can see mischief through a door And he'll take fifty points from Gryffindor Here comes the Snape Alix, high as kite as she just got her first job... (Thanks to Lori, Carole, Penny and Jeralyn who introduced me to the CPDs) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 10 23:32:07 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffes MacGoo) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:32:07 -0000 Subject: Mea Culpa - Lestranges Message-ID: <93irdn+f9sm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8923 Hey everyone I was wrong, very wrong about the Lestranges. My apologies to all. I have read and re-read GOF and I can not find any information as to the names of the persons accused of the torture of the Longbottoms, other than Barty Crouch Jr. (sorry Steve) Should I ever find *anything* rest assured I will post immediately Will this teach me not to go off halfcocked in future? I doubt it, but please feel free to regard anything I say with caution or even suspicion. Storm :-( From catlady at wicca.net Wed Jan 10 23:53:12 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:53:12 -0000 Subject: Double classes [and Rickman] In-Reply-To: <002f01c07b1c$ff9305e0$4bd43ccc@krass> Message-ID: <93isl8+8bl1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8924 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Lisa Rourke" wrote: > They usually have Double Potions and Double Care of Magical > Creatures with the Slytherins and Double Herbology with the > Hufflepuffs. All their other classes they have on their own. *I* think the Gryffindors have Astronomy with the Ravenclaws. That theory can't be proved OR disproved because we have been told nothing about Astronomy class except that it exists (Wednesday nights at midnight in SS/PS). But I am sure that if Gryffs have Doubles classes with two of the other Houses, they would have them with all three, in the name of kids getting to know as many fellow students as practical, for the sake of networking in future adult life. CHANGE OF SUBJECT: Amanda and Dinah are Rickman fans. Is there a big overlap between the group of people who are Rickman fans and the group of people who are Snape fans? From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:08:36 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:08:36 -0000 Subject: Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) In-Reply-To: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE51@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8925 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ABoyko at s... wrote: > From my personal experience, the only person who turned out to be > significantly different in real life was a woman who was a bit psycho. But > I've heard stories of men who've stepped off the plane 200 pounds heavier > than the picture they sent, etc. It's such a small world that I wonder why people would misrepresent themselves on the Internet. Several times I've ended up chatting with "strangers" who turned out to be friends of friends... happened a lot when I was in undergrad. Sending embellished pictures is silly for the same reason. The online world is just like the real world in many ways. Be yourself! I know there's been talk about a 2001 or 2002 HP4GU trip to England. But I'm thinking it would be really fun to have annual HP regional get-togethers. This way, those who can't afford the expense of traveling can still meet and greet other fans. For instance, there's several regular posters who live in SE Michigan... lots in the London area... others in Texas... others in Australia, etc. When the movie comes out in November, why not see it with the families and friends of other fans? I know although my sisters and sweetheart won't mind seeing it with me (they sat through 12 hours of Anne movies), they will not want to dissect it the way I'm sure another fan would. So the first of the regional gatherings could be in November 2001. We could plan a second one when Book 5 is released in 2002. I've participated in this sort of thing in other fandoms... the Anne/LMM ones I've participated in are so much fun it's unbelievable. It's always a blast meeting people in person. The time flies by... and then there's pictures and memories. List moderators, I'd be more than willing to help coordinate this if there's interest. Should I set up a poll, or wait to see if anyone else would like to participate in this sort of thing? For all I know, most of the list may cherish anonymity. ;) --Ebony From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:09:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:09:13 -0000 Subject: MMWP dates revisited (was casting suggestion) In-Reply-To: <93icgo+acgr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93itj9+r9dj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8926 Jim wrote: >Sirius *is* young (35 tops) 35 tops? If we're talking end of PoA, that would make James just about 21 when Harry was born, if James and Sirius are exactly the same age. Because Voldemort was 16 (and Dumbledore wasn't yet headmaster) about 50 years ago, there is an upper limit to the ages of MWPP/Lily/Snape. But that upper limit is close to 60. We always have to remember that wizards don't age at the same rate as Muggles. Dumbledore had auburn hair at age 100. James and Lily seem to have gotten married shortly after leaving Hogwarts, according to Hagrid in PS. But we have a lot more leeway in deciding how long they were married before Harry was born. A wizard couple could have their first child at age 50, why not? A possible timeline, if Harry was born in 1980: 1940 Tom Riddle opens the Chamber of Secrets (age 16) **anywhere from mid-1940's (AD has become headmaster) to late 1970's** MWPP, Lily and Snape are at Hogwarts. I.e. they were born no earlier than 1935 (graduate Hogwarts 1952), no later than 1962 (graduate Hogwarts 1979). 1970 V comes to power, is about 46 1981 Potters killed, V falls from power 1991 PS begins 1994 end of PoA: Lupin, Pettigrew, Sirius and Snape are as young as 32, as old as 59. I tend to think MWPP etc. would be in their early 40's when the books begin, but that may be just because that's how about old my parents were when I was 11. Did I miss something? Are we ever told, e.g., whether V was already in power when the Marauders were in school? Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "You weren't being thick after all--you were showing moral fiber!" Ron Weasley, HP and the G of F ----------------------------------------------------------------- From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 10 23:33:10 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:33:10 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries... Message-ID: <000c01c07b5d$c87ec4e0$e83670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8927 Hi everyone, Firstly, a big thank you to fellow Chaser, Joywitch for leading off the discussion on Chapter 25 of GoF so soon after returning from an exhausting spell in the sun-drenched Caribbean. Storm Stanford will be posting a character sketch of Lucius Malfoy before the weekend, the discussion of which will, no doubt, trail into next week. A Howler goes out to Ben Leigh who appears to have forgotten his previous offer to lead off this week's summaries. We assume he is in the bushes, looking for his lost toad... again. Next week's scheduled summaries are Ch 26 "The Second Task" and the characters James & Lily Potter, both from the quill of Heidi Tandy. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Kassie21 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 9 05:28:40 2001 From: Kassie21 at hotmail.com (Kassie Ostrander) Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 00:28:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: A thought about Prof. Trelawney Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8928 >>Hmm, now I'm going to have to go back and read all the books again >for any reference to Voldermort. Somehow, I don't think Trelawney is >a bad guy, but it does give you pause...of course, I have quite a few >questions about Voldermort's name all together. Like who started the >whole "He who must not be named" and "You know who". To me, it seems >like that bit started in Voldermort's camp as a way to increase >fear. Either that, or Voldermort's name has more meaning than we >already know - that speaking his name is a way to curse him or >something (I know, I know - that's way out in left field somewhere). > >Still, there may be something to the Dark Lord thing, but then >Professor Trelawney wasn't exactly herself when she was calling him >the Dark Lord, was she? I don't have my books right in front of me, but didn't she say it afterwards also. Something along the lines of "Why would i predict that the dark lord is coming back" ? I could be wrong though, so just let me know. -Kassie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:16:24 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:16:24 -0000 Subject: intelligent machines (was genius) In-Reply-To: <93gigq+521e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93iu0o+rbc0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8929 readbaby said: >just a sid point about j.k. rolling's genius; isnt it amazing how >much like the internet tom riddle's diary is? how dangerous is it for >a kid to chat with people on the internet that he/she doesnt know? >wow! >your thoughts? Oh yeah! A related point came up in a conversation I had with a few colleagues, not about the internet, but just about Palm Pilots. One of my colleagues had just gotten one and made a comment about how crazy it is to entrust our lives to machines we don't even remotely understand. (I often feel like this about my car as well as my computer.) Another woman said "didn't some famous person say that?" and I muttered, half-hoping they wouldn't hear me, "I think it was Harry Potter..." I knew it was Arthur Weasley but I thought, they'll REALLY think I'm nuts if I have to explain who Arthur Weasley is! But yet another colleague, who has 2 kids, laughed and gave the exact quote and the character! Amy Z. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:14:21 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:14:21 -0000 Subject: Double Potions (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93itst+97av@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8930 3-hour classes are common in US universities, especially upper-college or graduate school seminars. Three hours with Snape (she says, forcibly dragging the subject back on-topic)--what a nightmare. Neville would hang himself during break. Amy Z. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:19:06 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:19:06 -0000 Subject: Double classes [and Rickman] In-Reply-To: <93isl8+8bl1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93iu5q+io9f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8932 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > > CHANGE OF SUBJECT: > Amanda and Dinah are Rickman fans. Is there a big overlap between the group of people who are Rickman fans and the group of people who are Snape fans? Well, I'm only in one part of that particular Venn diagram (the "Rickman only" spot). Rickman as Snape... I'm not sure how I feel about it. --Ebony (who can't believe she's replying to a casting post) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:19:43 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:19:43 -0000 Subject: Chapter 25 Summary In-Reply-To: <93h3bd+rj17@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93iu6v+d4eb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8933 Terrific summary, Joywitch! >3. The second half of this chapter reads completely differently when >you know that Moody is really Crouch, Jr. and that Snape was once a >Death Eater and has a mark on his arm. Everyone (except maybe Filch) >is maneuvering to save his own butt. I just had no clue anything >weird was going on here the first time I read it, did you? No. And I love that! I've reread that scene a bunch of times, enjoying the many layers now that you know all the stuff about MEM's true identity and Snape's history. Especially when Snape grabs his arm--M's laugh has a whole new meaning when we know the REAL reason he hates Snape. Not just in this scene, but throughout GoF, Crouch Jr. does one hell of a job staying in character. He and Moody have similar feelings towards various characters, namely the Death Eaters & their crew, but with differences that must make the acting job even harder. To seem like Moody, he has to act toward Snape, Karkaroff, & Malfoy pretty much the way he (Crouch) would anyway--but without spilling his true motivations. And he has to remember that he's on Harry's/Dumbledore's side. The scene where Karkaroff first encounters Harry and Moody is striking this way. Crouch-as-MEM allows his hatred of K to show but also has to appear to be H's ally. He must've gone to bed with his head spinning. >4. (This has been discussed before.) When Harry is stuck in the >stairway, why doesn't he say "Accio Map" to get the Marauder's Map >out of the way? Too rattled...and it's a fairly new charm for him, not something that's second nature like "say 'lumos' if the lights go out." You know how it is when you've just recently learned a new charm. ;-) Amy Z. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:21:09 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:21:09 -0000 Subject: World Cup (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93iu9l+vqim@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8934 Simon wrote: >When referring to hooligans you may as well drop the British in favour of >the English. Rarely do any other parts of Britain cause trouble at football >matches, but the English seem to manage it at every game they go to! My apologies, non-English British folks. BTW, can someone clear up JKR's nationality for me? I thought she was Scottish but she sounds English to my ignorant USAmerican ears. (I know, not EVERYONE from Scotland sounds like Sean Connery!) I guess that got back on-topic after all. Amy Z. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:27:23 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:27:23 -0000 Subject: Casting suggestion In-Reply-To: <93hrlr+10c15@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93iulb+5bd4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8936 Kline for Lockhart sounds good to me. Maybe JKR would agree to make the biggest jerk in the books USAmerican. I don't even like Kevin Kline, that's why he'd be good! Rickman IS Snape. I was so delighted when I learned about that pick. Okay, so he's too old, I still think he's perfect. No other casting choice has so closely matched my inner vision (once the hair is greased and the scowl fixed on). Am I going to get flamed if I say that I think Maggie Smith is an outrageous overactor and I don't want her to subject McGonagall to the same treatment she's given every role I've seen her in: repressed-spinster-who-seems-so-strict-but-is-really-an-old-softie? >Kenneth Branagh for Lupin Hmm, too healthy-looking. Ian McKellen has the right amount of both wear-and-tear and sex appeal if you ask me. I know, I know, he's way too old. But he did say he'd like to teach Daniel again! (Having apparently played a schoolmaster in David Copperfield, which I didn't catch.) Ralph Fiennes, now, how about him for Lupin? He's the right age, he frequently looks like he's about to keel over (anyone see Oscar and Lucinda?) and as for the sex appeal . . . (fanning myself) Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ----------------------------------------------------------------- From pbnesbit at msn.com Thu Jan 11 00:27:55 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:27:55 -0000 Subject: Rickman/Snape Message-ID: <93iumb+iog3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8937 I don't know, Rita. I'm most definately an Alan Rickman fan. Snape I find just really intriguing. I guess I'm a fan because I keep waiting for something to happen to tell Harry (& us) more about him. Parker From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:29:12 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:29:12 -0000 Subject: My boss In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93iuoo+mt43@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8938 Meredith wrote: >We were talking about getting new calendars for our desks and she mentioned >that she thought we could get a better price if we didn't order them through >the office supply catalog and just went to Barnes and Noble where they were >on sale. She said she was going to get us some air and space themed ones (I >work at an air and space museum) when I mentioned I was going to get my own >because I wanted a HP one. She says "Hey, then I'll get you a Harry Potter >calendar." This morning she brought it to me, so I was able to get my HP >calendar paid for by the company! What a world I live in... I think HP is a very appropriate calendar. When it comes to flying genius, he outstrips the Bros. Wright by far! Maybe your museum should have an exhibit: "The Physics of Quidditch" or some such. Amy Z. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From ssturtevant at home.com Thu Jan 11 00:30:14 2001 From: ssturtevant at home.com (Sara Sturtevant) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 16:30:14 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Fossil Watch References: <979155539.69401@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000501c07b65$aaa187c0$5ba50d18@santab1.ca.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8939 Hello! I am new here so please forgive any mistakes... the fossil.com website has a teaser photo of one of the watches, it's to be a limited edition series of watches. There are so many HP things to wait for, movie, books, watches -I will be stark raving mad with anticpation by the time November gets here! Sara From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:31:59 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:31:59 -0000 Subject: basilisk In-Reply-To: <93fit3+q1o3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93iutv+d2a5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8940 readbaby asks: >whats the point of harry being able to speak parseltounge if he >doesnt tell basilik to kill tom morvolo riddle? can tommy die also if >he looks into the snakes eyes? I don't think Tom can be killed in any of the usual ways, because he isn't alive, he's just a memory. That's why to "kill" him H has to stab the diary. (Notice that this doesn't kill Voldemort--it can't affect the real-world Riddle.) The second time I read CoS I wondered whether *Tom* could kill *Harry*--if he could, why did he sic the basilisk on him and get all upset when it was distracted by Fawkes?--why not just curse him? He seems to be capable, if not of Avada Kedavra (he's only 16 after all), then of something, because he's about to kill Harry with his own wand when Harry stabs the diary. Maybe he just likes to do things via snake. Amy Z. From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:44:38 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:44:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Phoenix Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8941 I just finished reading "A Prayer for Owen Meaney", by John Irving. At some point near the end of the book, i was able to read through my tears, a comment that Owen makes about the Phoenix in his diary. I thought I would share it with the rest of you... "There was quite a good drawing of a Phoenix, that mythical bird that was supposed to burn itself on a funeral pyre and then rise up from its own ashes. Under the drawing, Owen had written, 'OFTEN A SYMBOL OF REBORN IDEALISM, OR HOPE - OR AN EMBLEM OF IMMORTALITY' " Kind of made me think about HP, which was not easy to do considering how moving this book is. I am going to veer off topic and tell you, that if you have not read it, it is a wonderful story, one that can cause so many emotions in you. It was the first book I have been able to focus on since reading HP in November...without thinking of Harry till the very end....only after i had finished the book and was trying to calm myself down did i remember to go bnack and find it. Ignoring all that, what did you think of Owen's views on the Phoenix?? Stephanie Hoping against hope that someone hasn't already said this long ago.... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:48:16 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:48:16 -0000 Subject: Creevey Brothers and Genetics In-Reply-To: <90olp8+grmk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ivsg+6tpu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8942 This is an old thread, but I just reread CoS and thought of it again. Rebecca wrote: > Instead of the "wizarding gene" being recessive it is possible that it > is "sex-linked". An example of a sex-linked gene is colorblindness, > which is found mostly in males. This would explain why both Creevey > brothers are wizards even though their parents are Muggles Do we know really how big a proportion of kids > are from Muggle families? Or how many are wizarding siblings from > Muggle parents? Is it rare? What I noticed in my rereading is that Colin only mentions his dad. The way he talks about him, it sounds as if his mother may be dead. It's quite noticeable that he mentions only his dad, if you look at the passage--he says his dad was surprised by his magical abilities, his dad's a milkman, and (the clincher) he wants to send "him," not "them," a picture of Harry (page 96 US ed., "Gilderoy Lockhart"). That's the way you talk if you don't HAVE a mom or at least, don't live with her. SO--the Creeveys' mom could have been a witch who never told her spouse (a la Seamus's mom). Or maybe their dad adopted them. Or maybe their parents ARE both Muggles. There are certainly families where siblings share talents that both parents lack. I just thought it was interesting that Colin and Dennis don't seem to have a mom. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- The most exciting thing that ever happened in [Professor Binns's] classes was his entering the room through the blackboard. . . . many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets -------------------------------------------------------------------- From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Jan 11 00:18:38 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:18:38 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002701c07b64$32b5dfa0$d43570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 8943 Ebony said: <<<< I know there's been talk about a 2001 or 2002 HP4GU trip to England. But I'm thinking it would be really fun to have annual HP regional get-togethers. >>>> Great suggestion Ebony! <<<< List moderators, I'd be more than willing to help coordinate this if there's interest. Should I set up a poll, or wait to see if anyone else would like to participate in this sort of thing? For all I know, most of the list may cherish anonymity. ;)>>>> I'm sure the idea will be really popular and your offer to help coordinate will receive unanimous support. Can I make an interim suggestion? If members want to arrange regional meets in a forum setting, they could, perhaps, use the HPTour eGroups club to discuss this. Nick Mitchell set up HPTour for discussion of the proposed tour of HP-related sites in the UK, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind if it were used for this purpose as well (and since we've mentioned it, see details of HPTour at: http://www.egroups.com/members/HPTour). Nick - would that be okay? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From sashibuya at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 00:58:27 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:58:27 -0000 Subject: Doubleclasses/Rickman-as-Snape In-Reply-To: <93iu5q+io9f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93j0fj+n0oc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8944 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: As for the labs post, my friends in hard core sci classes do have three hour or so labs...even in high school my labs were 1.5 hours, and sometimes we had to do make ups when we screwed up (poor Neville). Reading the lexicon, I was gonna post a list of semi plausible reasons why Dumbledore hires such dysfunctional teachers, but my computer crashed and I lost it. It would make sense to have Astronomy with Ravenclaws; I wonder what class at midnight would be like? Why isn't everyone sleep-deprived? Maybe that's why we don't see prof. Sinistra more; she's too sleep deprived to do anything interesting. ^_^ > > > CHANGE OF SUBJECT: > > Amanda and Dinah are Rickman fans. Is there a big overlap between > the group of people who are Rickman fans and the group of people who > are Snape fans? > > Well, I'm only in one part of that particular Venn diagram > (the "Rickman only" spot). Rickman as Snape... I'm not sure how I > feel about it. Can't believe I'm posting to a casting post either. I just went on the IMDB and realized I haven't seen him in anything but Michael Collins, where he doesn't do much. I feel so uncultured now. Charmian From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 11 00:58:34 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 10 Jan 2001 16:58:34 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) Message-ID: <20010111005834.229.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8945 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Thu Jan 11 01:02:29 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:02:29 -0000 Subject: basilisk In-Reply-To: <93iutv+d2a5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93j0n5+dje3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8946 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aiz24 at h... wrote: > readbaby asks: > > >whats the point of harry being able to speak parseltounge if he > >doesnt tell basilik to kill tom morvolo riddle? Tommy is the heir of Slytherin, hence only he controls Slytherin's pets. > The second time I read CoS I wondered whether *Tom* could kill > *Harry*--if he could, why did he sic the basilisk on him and get all > upset when it was distracted by Fawkes?--why not just curse him? He > seems to be capable, if not of Avada Kedavra (he's only 16 after all), At the start of GoF Frank Bryce tells the police in Little Hangleton that he saw a teenage boy near the murder scene. It seems clear to me that this is supposed to be Tom Riddle Jr. Therefore he was easily powerful enough to kill not one, but three people not very long after leaving his memory in the diary. Also in CoS Tom Riddle Jrs. memory seems to have no trouble using Harrys wand when tracing the anagram in the air, so it seems a little strange he didn't just kill Harry as soon as he turned up. But as we saw at the end of GoF, HWMNBN does like to play doesn't he? Dai From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 11 01:05:33 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:05:33 -0000 Subject: tom riddle's diary In-Reply-To: <93igd7+1aeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93j0st+ui53@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8947 readbaby wrote: > just a side point about j.k. rolling's genius; isnt it amazing how > much like the internet tom riddle's diary is? how dangerous is it for > a kid to chat with people on the internet that he/she doesnt know? > wow! > your thoughts? Good call! Never noticed the parallel myself. Voldy is really slimy isn't he? :-)Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 11 01:13:13 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:13:13 -0000 Subject: Mea Culpa - Lestranges In-Reply-To: <93irdn+f9sm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93j1b9+tm6m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8948 Snuffes MacGoo wrote: > Hey everyone > > I was wrong, very wrong about the Lestranges. My apologies to all. I > have read and re-read GOF and I can not find any information as to > the names of the persons accused of the torture of the Longbottoms, > other than Barty Crouch Jr. (sorry Steve) > > Should I ever find *anything* rest assured I will post immediately > > > Will this teach me not to go off halfcocked in future? I doubt it, > but please feel free to regard anything I say with caution or even > suspicion. > > Storm :-( It's implied though. Especially that bit where the woman says they would be generously rewarded by Voldy, then in the Death Eater circle Voldy basically says the same thing. (Or am I going off half-cocked?) I always got the impression that Avery was one of them too. :-)Milz From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 01:18:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:18:32 -0000 Subject: Whoops, forgot to complete my thought In-Reply-To: <93iu0o+rbc0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93j1l8+dita@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8949 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aiz24 at h... wrote: > > readbaby said: > >just a sid point about j.k. rolling's genius; isnt it amazing how > >much like the internet tom riddle's diary is? how dangerous is it for > >a kid to chat with people on the internet that he/she doesnt know? > >wow! > >your thoughts? > > Oh yeah! A related point came up in a conversation I had with a few > colleagues, not about the internet, but just about Palm Pilots. One > of my colleagues had just gotten one and made a comment about how > crazy it is to entrust our lives to machines we don't even remotely > understand. (I often feel like this about my car as well as my > computer.) Another woman said "didn't some famous person say that?" > and I muttered, half-hoping they wouldn't hear me, "I think it was > Harry Potter..." I knew it was Arthur Weasley but I thought, they'll > REALLY think I'm nuts if I have to explain who Arthur Weasley is! But > yet another colleague, who has 2 kids, laughed and gave the exact > quote and the character! > > Amy Z. the exact quote being the dictum, "Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain." I should tape that over my computer monitor. Amy From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jan 11 01:44:40 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:44:40 -0000 Subject: basilisk In-Reply-To: <93j0n5+dje3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93j368+s1js@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8950 There are several possible reasons why Tom Riddle Jr. might not be able to kill Harry directly, and has to use the basilisk instead: - Harry's wand won't work against its master (but where is Ginny's wand?) - an incorporial being like TR Jr. may not be able to use a killing curse like Avada Kedavra - the protection that Harry's mother's death gives him against Lord V also protects him from TR Jr. Any of these would be good and sufficient reason to justify using the basilisk to kill Harry (and JKR has my permission to use them if she is ever asked about this during a chat). Besides, it's like suspending James Bond over a pit of cobras while a candle slowly burns through the rope -- better theater. -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > in CoS Tom Riddle Jrs. memory > seems to have no trouble using Harrys wand when tracing the anagram > in the air, so it seems a little strange he didn't just kill Harry > as soon as he turned up. But as we saw at the end of GoF, HWMNBN > does like to play doesn't he? > > > > > Dai From donna.rae at verizon.net Thu Jan 11 02:00:39 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:00:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion References: Message-ID: <00c301c07b72$4c2427e0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8951 Think about him in Die Hard instead. That should do it. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Walton" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Ha, HAAAH! Another Rickman fan. We will overcome, o Ye who think he's too > > old.... > > > > --Amanda > > Oh, I don't think he's too old. My problem was that I'm going to be > visualising him as the Spock character from GalaxyQuest: > > "By the Twin Pillars of Vroon, Potter!" > > --John > > ======================================== > John Walton john at walton.to > > My parents retired to Florida and all I got was this lousy > President. > ======================================== > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From donna.rae at verizon.net Thu Jan 11 02:22:42 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:22:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] MMWP dates revisited (was casting suggestion) References: <93itj9+r9dj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015901c07b75$60d5fa80$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8952 So I guess that would make both Voldemort and Hagrid 66 years old. Donna Rae Amy Z wrote: > Because Voldemort was 16 (and Dumbledore wasn't yet headmaster) about > 50 years ago, there is an upper limit to the ages of MWPP/Lily/Snape. > But that upper limit is close to 60. We always have to remember that > wizards don't age at the same rate as Muggles. Dumbledore had auburn > hair at age 100. > From s_ings at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 02:41:35 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:41:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) Message-ID: <20010111024135.5710.qmail@web206.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8953 --- voicelady at mymailstation.com wrote: > On Wed, 10 January 2001, "Ebony " wrote: > > > But I'm thinking it would be really fun to have > annual HP regional get-togethers. This way, those > who can't afford the expense of traveling can still > meet and greet other fans. For instance, there's > several regular posters who live in SE Michigan... > lots in the London area... others in Texas... others > in Australia, etc. > > I like this idea, Ebony. My husband and I wanted to > take the "tour", but now don't think we'll be able > to go. So I'd even been thinking along the regional > lines myself, and I'd love to get together with > others in my area (NYC). I'm still hoping to make the "tour", finances permitting (I tend to unemployed over the summer months). I like the idea of regional get togethers, but I suspect there aren't many of us in my area (Ottawa, Ontario). I will be at a conference in Rhode Island at the end of February, and wouldn't mind sneaking off for a quick bite to eat with any list members who may be in the area. E-mail me off list if this is a possibility. > > I have no problem with you setting up a poll. Nor do I, I think it's a great idea. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Jan 11 02:52:27 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 18:52:27 -0800 Subject: Playwizard 2001 Calander In-Reply-To: <3A5940B9.D4E8FAFD@wicca.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010110184139.00c8fcb0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8954 At 08:23 PM 1/7/01 -0800, Catlady wrote: >catlady_de_los_angeles says, Are there enough Babes of Hogwarts for 12 >months of a calendar? >1) Fleur on the cover, of course. >2) Hermione in her Ball gown. >3) Cho. >4) Pansy. >5,6) Professors Vector and Sinistra. >7) Is Ginny a Babe? >[hert0661isme says, Ginny is a babe (if you find the right pic on the >PoU group!)] >8) Parvati and Padma, in a twin photo. >9) Is Lavender a Babe? >10) selah_1977 says, Madam Rosmerta for the older men... >fizzwhizbee says, Rosmerta isn't at Hogwarts! My own ideal Calander: Cover, January, & middle centerfold: Fleur Feb: Hermione at 18 March: Madam Rosemerta April: Ginny at 19 May: Celestia Warbeck, the Singing Sorceress June: Parvati & Padma at 18 July: The Mermaid in the Prefects' Bathroom Aug: Rowena Ravenclaw de Milo Sept: Professor Vector (with an "I Motivate" badge) Oct: Lavender Brown at 18 Nov: Dancing Veela Dec: Professor Sinistra doing an "Astronomer's academic striptease" (I know an astronomy teacher who actually does this!) Good thing I finished -- I was getting too horny to go on... ;) -- Dave From zsenya at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 03:00:15 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 03:00:15 -0000 Subject: Fin Fiction Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93j7jv+ka90@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8955 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ashley Kelly wrote: > Well, I told myself that I would not read any fan fiction until > JKR had completed the series, but yesterday I gave in and decided to read > PoU and the four chapters of its sequel. Now, a former R/H shipper I am > questioning my loyalties. > To even the playing field, can someone please give me a link to a > good fan fic that has an R/H slant so I can see which I prefer. > Also, has Lori written any more of her series. I am hungry for > more already. I really hope she has! > > Ashley Ashley - here is a shameless plug for my own website, which has quite a lot of Ron/Hermione stuff archived there (much of it has also appeared on ff.net) http://www.sugarquill.com/flourish.html Most of the stuff there is R/H during their school years, but some of it is an older Ron/Hermione. I highly recommend stories by B Bennett or Awakenings by Arabella as two good school age Ron/Hermione stories. For adult versions, I'd go for Mrs. Weasley's Best Man series. I also really like the story "The Healer" that has been posted at ff.net by Crescent. From Serido8 at aol.com Thu Jan 11 03:25:57 2001 From: Serido8 at aol.com (Serido8 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:25:57 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Introduction Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8956 I've forgotten my password - can you tell me how to get it - I want to be taken off the email list -- Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 04:11:46 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:11:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Double classes [and Rickman] References: <93isl8+8bl1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5D3282.7EE216AF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8957 Rita Winston wrote:CHANGE OF SUBJECT: > Amanda and Dinah are Rickman fans. Is there a big overlap between the > group of people who are Rickman fans and the group of people who are > Snape fans? Upon reflection, I would say probably. It's not a real big group, because you have to (a) be a grownup, (b) have seen several Alan Rickman movies, and (c) have read the HP books, but here's why. Alan Rickman, like another of my great loves, James Mason, seems to pick roles based on his perception of their artistic merit rather than their projected boxoffice appeal. So he's been in a real range of roles, most of which are characters which are complex, multi-layered, and/or multi-motivated. Thus, Rickman fans tend to like that type of character. Which is Snape's type of character. This basic correlation is atop the obvious (to the Rickman lovers among us)--foremost, for me, Rickman's ability to act wordlessly, with posture and facial expression, which is both rare and essential to Snape, whose wordless expressions and stances often speak volumes. Second, Rickman plays condescending arrogance with a master's touch, again essential to Snape. Plus there is a certain physical match, so long as they dye his hair black. So those of us familiar with Rickman's work spotted him in Snape, since we've seen it and liked it before. Y'all want me to poll the Snapefans group and see how many previous Rickman fans there are? Ebony, what's wrong with casting posts? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 04:20:58 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 22:20:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 25 Summary References: <93h3bd+rj17@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5D34AA.F1BE8D01@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8958 Joywitch wrote: > 3. The second half of this chapter reads completely differently when > you know that Moody is really Crouch, Jr. and that Snape was once a > Death Eater and has a mark on his arm. Everyone (except maybe Filch) > is maneuvering to save his own butt. I just had no clue anything > weird was going on here the first time I read it, did you? It was pretty clear to me that Moody and Snape had had a capital-P Past, and that there were undercurrents to the conversation. Undertows, more like. Moody obviously had something on Snape, even if it were simply his knowledge of Snape's past, which nobody has tried to hide; I thought Snape just disliked the reminders of the whole era and had a habit of conceding, with ill grace, to those who had not "fallen." But I had no clue of the real complexity of things. > 4. (This has been discussed before.) When Harry is stuck in the > stairway, why doesn't he say "Accio Map" to get the Marauder's Map > out of the way? He's 14, it's very late, he's not paying attention, and he's been soaking in a hot, heavily perfumed bath. I'm not my most alert just out of the tub at night. I don't think it even occurred to him. --Amanda From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 11 04:29:38 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:29:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fan Fiction Help Message-ID: <200101110434.f0B4YYC10760@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8959 >Ashley - here is a shameless plug for my own website, which has quite >a lot of Ron/Hermione stuff archived there (much of it has also >appeared on ff.net) http://www.sugarquill.com/flourish.html > >Most of the stuff there is R/H during their school years, but some of >it is an older Ron/Hermione. I highly recommend stories by B Bennett >or Awakenings by Arabella as two good school age Ron/Hermione stories. > For adult versions, I'd go for Mrs. Weasley's Best Man series. I >also really like the story "The Healer" that has been posted at ff.net >by Crescent. I just wanted to second this recommendation (this website is an absolute treasure trove for the R/H shipper), particularly "The Best Man" series (list groans collectively as Kathy mentions that *yet* again!) Also, anything but Zsenya, but especially "The Shreiking Shack", which is my latest favorite. Also, the "Star-Crossed" series by FleurHartz, which is very fluffy but completely adorable. Ashley, step back from the edge...don't go over to the dark side! (; Kathy From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 04:47:55 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 04:47:55 -0000 Subject: Casting and more HP hip-hop In-Reply-To: <3A5D3282.7EE216AF@texas.net> Message-ID: <93jdtr+evjh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8960 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Ebony, what's wrong with casting posts? Nothing at all! It's like the Hogwarts--Number of Students debate. I have absolutely nothing to say. ;) It's funny, but someone over at ff.net did the same thing as Pippin-- they've written a filk to Coolio's Gangsta's Paradise. Only this one's called "Pranksta's Paradise", and it features the twins. http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story- readReview&storyid=166449 I now officially declare that I have seen it all. --Ebony From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 11 04:57:56 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 23:57:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fan Fiction Help Message-ID: <200101110502.f0B52uC14508@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 8961 > Also, anything but >Zsenya, but especially "The Shreiking Shack", which is my latest favorite. >Also, the "Star-Crossed" series by FleurHartz, which is very fluffy but >completely adorable. > >Ashley, step back from the edge...don't go over to the dark side! (; > >Kathy Whoops! That was supposed to be "anything BY Zsenya"! Definitely a case where a little typo makes a difference in meaning. Kathy From rcridley2 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 05:46:24 2001 From: rcridley2 at yahoo.com (RC Ridley) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 21:46:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: silly question Message-ID: <20010111054624.25529.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8962 Hi, all. I'm new here, and have been lurking for a couple of days to catch up on all of the threads. I've seen "ff.net" and "PoU" mentioned a couple of times, but don't know what they mean, or where to find them. would someone please help? Thanks! Rachel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From SHENmagic at aol.com Thu Jan 11 05:46:50 2001 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:46:50 EST Subject: Subject: They're Still Rock and Stone (filk) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8963 >Subject: They're Still Rock and Stone (filk) >From: "Caius Marcius" >(To the tune of It's Still Rock and Roll to Me) Best one yet CMC! I can just see Billy Joel pounding it on the piano at Hogwarts, while Dumbledore waves his wand and streamers stream down and the words flow on a piece of ribbon.... From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 11 06:30:56 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:30:56 +1100 Subject: not a silly question References: <20010111054624.25529.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00e701c07b98$1e2ec180$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8964 > Hi, all. I'm new here, and have been lurking for > a couple of days to catch up on all of the threads. > > I've seen "ff.net" and "PoU" mentioned a couple of > times, but don't know what they mean, or where to find > them. would someone please help? Thanks! www.fanfiction.net is an archive of stories written by fans of many different works. There is a huge Harry Potter section, having over 14,000 fan fiction stories. Most HP fan fictions are set in the Harry Potter universe, and take most of their characters from the HP series. Jim Ferer's new story "The Letter" has an interesting slant by supposing that it is all true in our own universe. PoU is Paradigm of Uncertainty, a series by Lori which is seen as a benchmark, a level of excellent writing which I think almost matches HP itself. It's set about ten years after our characters leave Hogwarts, and gives the story of Harry and Hermione as grown-ups. Simon. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Jan 11 06:54:09 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 01:54:09 -0500 Subject: amazon.com order thing References: <20010111024135.5710.qmail@web206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A5D5891.3F43DFE8@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 8965 Just got this from Amazon: We have some news concerning your order for J.K. Rowling's "Quidditch Through the Ages." The proceeds and royalties for both "Quidditch Through the Ages" and "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" are going to charity. Comic Relief is an organization which "exists to tackle poverty and promote social justice by helping disadvantaged people in the UK and Africa to realize their aspirations and potential." In order to reduce customer shipping costs and streamline order processing, we are only offering these titles as a set. As we will not be offering these books individually, your order for "Quidditch Through the Ages" has been cancelled. From rcridley2 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 07:02:13 2001 From: rcridley2 at yahoo.com (rcridley2 at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:02:13 -0000 Subject: not a silly question In-Reply-To: <00e701c07b98$1e2ec180$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93jlpl+l58s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8966 Thanks, Simon! Aside from "Paradigm of Uncertainty" and "The Letter" are there any other fics that are a "must read"? I read through all four books in about 6 days, and would really like to find something to fill the gap until the next book! Rachel --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > www.fanfiction.net is an archive of stories written by fans of many > different works. There is a huge Harry Potter section, having over 14,000 fan fiction stories. > > Most HP fan fictions are set in the Harry Potter universe, and take most of their characters from the HP series. Jim Ferer's new story "The Letter" has an interesting slant by supposing that it is all true in our own universe. > > PoU is Paradigm of Uncertainty, a series by Lori which is seen as a > benchmark, a level of excellent writing which I think almost matches HP itself. It's set about ten years after our characters leave Hogwarts, and gives the story of Harry and Hermione as grown- ups. > > Simon. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 11 07:34:51 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:34:51 +1100 Subject: Fan-fiction and reading HP (was not a silly question) References: <93jlpl+l58s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <014101c07ba1$0c601b30$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8967 PoU has a sequel, called "the story that never ends" or something like that, and a prequel called "A Sirius Affair". There are plenty of other good fics. I'm enjoying Ebony's fic "Trouble in Paradise", about Ron and Hermione's marriage going wrong, and written from the point of view of Angelina who is Fred Weasley's wife :-) I actually wouldn't put "The Letter" into the 'must read' category yet, at least not after only one part. No offense meant to Jim, it's a great start, and I'd love to read more. I did the same as you, Rachel. I was a latecomer to HP, after the rest of my family had all read them. I read all four books in the space of a week, in November 2000. Simon. > Thanks, Simon! > > Aside from "Paradigm of Uncertainty" and "The Letter" are there any > other fics that are a "must read"? I read through all four books in > about 6 days, and would really like to find something to fill the gap > until the next book! > > Rachel > > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > > > www.fanfiction.net is an archive of stories written by fans of many > > different works. There is a huge Harry Potter section, having over > 14,000 fan fiction stories. > > > > Most HP fan fictions are set in the Harry Potter universe, and take > most of their characters from the HP series. Jim Ferer's new > story "The Letter" has an interesting slant by supposing that it is > all true in our own universe. > > > > PoU is Paradigm of Uncertainty, a series by Lori which is seen as a > > benchmark, a level of excellent writing which I think almost > matches HP itself. It's set about ten years after our characters > leave Hogwarts, and gives the story of Harry and Hermione as grown- > ups. > > > > Simon. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Jan 11 08:41:00 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:41:00 +1100 Subject: re Mea Culpa Message-ID: <01C07C06.A50E4E00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8968 Hey Milz - Implied yes, but I said it was stated *definitively. Alas no, I kept looking for the sentence that said 'Crouch jr and the Lestranges acted together ..." or 'The Lestranges were responsible for the torture of the Auror Longbottom ...". Can't find it (yet) btw, how does one (do other ppl) pronounce Auror? storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > Snuffes MacGoo wrote: > > Hey everyone > > > > I was wrong, very wrong about the Lestranges. My apologies to all. > I > > have read and re-read GOF and I can not find any information as to > > the names of the persons accused of the torture of the Longbottoms, > > other than Barty Crouch Jr. (sorry Steve) > > > > Should I ever find *anything* rest assured I will post immediately > > > > > > Will this teach me not to go off halfcocked in future? I doubt it, > > but please feel free to regard anything I say with caution or even > > suspicion. > > > > Storm :-( > > It's implied though. Especially that bit where the woman says they > would be generously rewarded by Voldy, then in the Death Eater circle > Voldy basically says the same thing. (Or am I going off half- cocked?) > > I always got the impression that Avery was one of them too. > > :-)Milz From duo at dangerous-minds.com Thu Jan 11 08:56:05 2001 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:56:05 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re Mea Culpa In-Reply-To: <01C07C06.A50E4E00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8969 storm wrote: > >btw, how does one (do other ppl) pronounce Auror? I personally think it's 'horror' minus the 'h'. What do the tapes say, anyway? Nathan From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 11 08:55:06 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:55:06 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re Mea Culpa References: <01C07C06.A50E4E00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <001101c07bac$41647d70$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8970 > Hey Milz - Implied yes, but I said it was stated *definitively. Alas > no, I kept looking for the sentence that said 'Crouch jr and the > Lestranges acted together ..." or 'The Lestranges were responsible > for the torture of the Auror Longbottom ...". Can't find it (yet) > > btw, how does one (do other ppl) pronounce Auror? To me, it's OAR-uh. From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Thu Jan 11 10:15:00 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 05:15:00 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] re Mea Culpa Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8971 In a message dated 1/11/01 3:43:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, duo at dangerous-minds.com writes: << storm wrote: > >btw, how does one (do other ppl) pronounce Auror? I personally think it's 'horror' minus the 'h'. What do the tapes say, anyway? Nathan >> ~~~~~~~ according to Jim Dale it is 'horror' minus the 'h' Tessie From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 11 10:21:10 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:21:10 -0000 Subject: thanks, jo and playwizard calendar Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8972 Rachel wrote: "Thanks, Simon! " Ah - that's ok - I don't remember doing anything - ah I didn't - that thanks would be aimed at the other Simon - oh well! Amy wrote: "My apologies, non-English British folks. BTW, can someone clear up JKR's nationality for me? I thought she was Scottish but she sounds English to my ignorant USAmerican ears." IIRC, Jo was born in England but now lives in Scotland. The safest bet would be to just call her British - which is correct. Dave wrote: "Cover, January, & middle centerfold: Fleur Feb: Hermione at 18 March: Madam Rosemerta April: Ginny at 19 May: Celestia Warbeck, the Singing Sorceress June: Parvati & Padma at 18 July: The Mermaid in the Prefects' Bathroom Aug: Rowena Ravenclaw de Milo Sept: Professor Vector (with an "I Motivate" badge) Oct: Lavender Brown at 18 Nov: Dancing Veela Dec: Professor Sinistra doing an "Astronomer's academic striptease" (I know an astronomy teacher who actually does this!) Good thing I finished -- I was getting too horny to go on... ;)" Sounds cool (can I get away with drooling around here after recent comments, especially some of the ones I wrote, over on the PoU group?). Where do I order my copy from - or do I have to put up with my Warner Bothers Calendar for this year? Simon From msmacgoo at one.net.au Thu Jan 11 10:59:49 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:59:49 +1100 Subject: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. Message-ID: <01C07C19.D85D6580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 8973 Hi everyone, I'm copying Heidi and stealing John's framework, partly because it's good and partly because I lack imagination. ******************** Character Summary: Lucius Malfoy aka 'Slimeball' Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, Lux) which would seem, if intended, to be ironic Malfoy - I like the french Mal foi - 'bad faith' derivation though I think there are other interpretations about. Age: hmm, older than the Marauders we suspect, though I do not think there is any hard evidence to support this. I don't think (? Corrections anyone?) he mentioned in discussions that cover Marauders/Severus' school days which suggest that he is not a contemporary. Lucius' involvement (up to his neck) with Voldemort suggests to me he is older than MMWP/Severus. Description: strongly resembles his son (or the other way around) "the same pale, pointed face and identical cold grey eyes". 'On screen' time: Less than I imagined. We hear of him in PS when Draco indicates that he intends to 'bully' his father into buying him a broom, despite the prohibition on first years having brooms (p. 60, all refs brit/aust eds). Lucius' first proper appearance is in CoS (p43) where he arrives in Mr Borgin's shop to sell what appears to be prohibited Dark items. A few pages later he distributes Tom Riddle's diary to Ginny Wesley, under cover of a physical fight with Arthur Wesley. Scattered throughout CoS as school governor, and through PoA as he attempted to have Buckbeak murdered in retribution for Draco's stupidity (not that I am taking sides ), less in GoF, revealed to be a Death Eater (GoF, p564) Job: Apart from being an all round bad guy (time consuming?) he doesn't appear to have one. For a time he was a governor on the Hogwarts Board but this went by the way at the end of CoS. Has connections to the Committee for the Disposal of Dangerous Creatures (PoA, p162). Rich family, doesn't appear to need to work. OTHO does appear to value work, or, more correctly the acquisition of wealth and power - but not through 'thieving and plundering' (CoS, p. 44) Personality: Horrid What? you want more? Very horrid. Special Abilities: being slimy, convincing people that he is a good decent Wizard, or at least not a Death Eater (ie Hagrid says Lucius claimed to be acting under Imperius curse after Voldemort's fall - don't have ref. Believe it's PS p60 something. Anyone?) Good at judging the political direction of the wind and win influence. Confident in his ability to grease palms (ie Quidditch box at the world cup - p.92) Obsessions: Himself, Money, Power, Influence Appears to be concerned with the 'purity' of wizard blood, though whether he attempts justify his concern in terms of the betterment of the general wizarding community or just ordinary self interest is not clear. Good Qualities - None (I haven't even come across any fan-fiction writers who have been able to invent any - maybe I'm not widely enough read ) Bad Qualities - Too many to name Relationships - Only if he must and only if he's on top. Married to Narcissa. I think that Cassie's explanation for this marriage is the most plausible (an Imperius curse IIRC). Although with a name like Narcissa maybe she was more willing that we might want to believe. Father to Draco - Seems like an abusive, absent kind of parent - parents Draco like a toy - come here, now I'm over you, go away, expects Draco to carry out his dream, expects Draco to be his puppet. Draco (IMO) has fully identified with his abuser and the behaviour he shows is indicative of the treatment he receives at home (all this is based on CoS and a few other bits and pieces). Evil overlord to Dobby (until the end of CoS) and assorted other (assumed) bonded servants/slaves. Fate - Death is too good for him, but he is such a politician I fancy he will play both sides of the field and wind up alive at the end of book 7. ************** Questions: 1. Does Lucius have any good qualities? 2. What does Lucius want? - to be Voldemort's lieutenant or to be Voldemort? 3. Will he live beyond the end of Book 7? 4. What does Lucius do with his days? Surely plotting to overthrow the world as we know it can only fill in so much time. Does he like a good game of backgammon? 5. Did Snape and Malfoy ever have a fling? - Is Draco their love child? Who was on top? From duo at dangerous-minds.com Thu Jan 11 11:30:42 2001 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:30:42 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Double Potions (OT) In-Reply-To: <93itst+97av@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8974 Amy Z. wrote >3-hour classes are common in US universities, especially upper-college >or graduate school seminars. > >Three hours with Snape (she says, forcibly dragging the subject back >on-topic)--what a nightmare. Neville would hang himself during break. Heh. I had a year and a half of six hour classes. Thank God it was only once a week. Nathan From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Thu Jan 11 11:21:56 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:21:56 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. In-Reply-To: <01C07C19.D85D6580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <93k50k+nvcv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8975 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, Lux) which I'm not sure you're right here. I don't think Lucius comes from Lucifer at all. Lucius was a very common personal name in Ancient rome and I doubt that would have been the case if it came from the name of satan. I'm not sure that the name Lucifer predates the name Lucius. Of course I could be wrong; my entire knowledge of ancient rome stems from Lindsey Davies novels. Dai From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 11 11:26:54 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:26:54 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. References: <01C07C19.D85D6580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <009201c07bc1$77586440$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 8976 > Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, Lux) which > would seem, if intended, to be ironic It's as ironic as the name Lucifer is -- that means 'bearer of light'. Lucifer was God's trusted lieutenant until he fell from the light. The irony is not JKR's. > Malfoy - I like the french Mal foi - 'bad faith' derivation though I think > there are other interpretations about. It's quite a reasonable interpretation. > 4. What does Lucius do with his days? Surely plotting to overthrow the world as > we know it can only fill in so much time. Does he like a good game of > backgammon? I'm sure he has a job. Was there any small talk at the Quidditch game? > 5. Did Snape and Malfoy ever have a fling? - Is Draco their love child? Who was > on top? How can two guys make a lovechild? Simon. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 11 12:40:22 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:40:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 25 Summary References: <979173562.19992@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000e01c07bcb$ab97be40$dac54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 8977 > > > > Message: 24 > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 00:19:43 -0000 > From: aiz24 at hotmail.com > Subject: Re: Chapter 25 Summary > Not just in this scene, but throughout GoF, Crouch Jr. does one hell > of a job staying in character. He must've gone to bed with his > head spinning. Not as much of a stretch as it might seem at first - after all, his eye was always spinning already. - CMC From alw at wilsonllp.com Thu Jan 11 12:48:53 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:48:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004801c07bcc$da94e5f0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 8978 (Raising hand in the air like Hermione usually does...) I'll help organize something too. I'm in the middle of co-organizing a "Global Gathering" in another fandom - I think we've got 13 cities all over the world all getting together the same weekend. It's really not as hard as you'd think it would be. I'm all for meeting other HP fans. If there's any interest, I'd me more than happy to help! Amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Ebony To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ABoyko at s... wrote: > From my personal experience, the only person who turned out to be > significantly different in real life was a woman who was a bit psycho. But > I've heard stories of men who've stepped off the plane 200 pounds heavier > than the picture they sent, etc. It's such a small world that I wonder why people would misrepresent themselves on the Internet. Several times I've ended up chatting with "strangers" who turned out to be friends of friends... happened a lot when I was in undergrad. Sending embellished pictures is silly for the same reason. The online world is just like the real world in many ways. Be yourself! I know there's been talk about a 2001 or 2002 HP4GU trip to England. But I'm thinking it would be really fun to have annual HP regional get-togethers. This way, those who can't afford the expense of traveling can still meet and greet other fans. For instance, there's several regular posters who live in SE Michigan... lots in the London area... others in Texas... others in Australia, etc. When the movie comes out in November, why not see it with the families and friends of other fans? I know although my sisters and sweetheart won't mind seeing it with me (they sat through 12 hours of Anne movies), they will not want to dissect it the way I'm sure another fan would. So the first of the regional gatherings could be in November 2001. We could plan a second one when Book 5 is released in 2002. I've participated in this sort of thing in other fandoms... the Anne/LMM ones I've participated in are so much fun it's unbelievable. It's always a blast meeting people in person. The time flies by... and then there's pictures and memories. List moderators, I'd be more than willing to help coordinate this if there's interest. Should I set up a poll, or wait to see if anyone else would like to participate in this sort of thing? For all I know, most of the list may cherish anonymity. ;) --Ebony To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alw at wilsonllp.com Thu Jan 11 12:54:17 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 07:54:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] MMWP dates revisited (was casting suggestion) References: <93itj9+r9dj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005c01c07bcd$9b98d310$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 8979 Dates... I tend to agree with Steve's timeline in the Lexicon. Lupin tells Harry that the Whomping Willow (is that right?) was planted the year that he arrived and that Dumbledore was headmaster. Dumbledore didn't become headmaster until 1972, which would mean that Lupin, James, Lily, Sirius would have been at Hogwarts no earlier than 1972. (someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm doing this from memory) Amy ----- Original Message ----- From: aiz24 at hotmail.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:09 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] MMWP dates revisited (was casting suggestion) Jim wrote: >Sirius *is* young (35 tops) 35 tops? If we're talking end of PoA, that would make James just about 21 when Harry was born, if James and Sirius are exactly the same age. Because Voldemort was 16 (and Dumbledore wasn't yet headmaster) about 50 years ago, there is an upper limit to the ages of MWPP/Lily/Snape. But that upper limit is close to 60. We always have to remember that wizards don't age at the same rate as Muggles. Dumbledore had auburn hair at age 100. James and Lily seem to have gotten married shortly after leaving Hogwarts, according to Hagrid in PS. But we have a lot more leeway in deciding how long they were married before Harry was born. A wizard couple could have their first child at age 50, why not? A possible timeline, if Harry was born in 1980: 1940 Tom Riddle opens the Chamber of Secrets (age 16) **anywhere from mid-1940's (AD has become headmaster) to late 1970's** MWPP, Lily and Snape are at Hogwarts. I.e. they were born no earlier than 1935 (graduate Hogwarts 1952), no later than 1962 (graduate Hogwarts 1979). 1970 V comes to power, is about 46 1981 Potters killed, V falls from power 1991 PS begins 1994 end of PoA: Lupin, Pettigrew, Sirius and Snape are as young as 32, as old as 59. I tend to think MWPP etc. would be in their early 40's when the books begin, but that may be just because that's how about old my parents were when I was 11. Did I miss something? Are we ever told, e.g., whether V was already in power when the Marauders were in school? Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "You weren't being thick after all--you were showing moral fiber!" Ron Weasley, HP and the G of F ----------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 11 13:36:16 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Jan 2001 05:36:16 -0800 Subject: OT - A Prayer for Owen Meany (was: The Phoenix ) Message-ID: <20010111133616.11073.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8980 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 11 14:01:25 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Jan 2001 06:01:25 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. Message-ID: <20010111140125.11204.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8981 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 14:04:57 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:04:57 -0000 Subject: pronunciation (was re Mea Culpa) In-Reply-To: <01C07C06.A50E4E00.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <93kei9+b5m3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8982 > btw, how does one (do other ppl) pronounce Auror? > > stormStorm asked: >btw, how does one (do other ppl) pronounce Auror? I generally consider Jim Dale's pronunciations definitive because he checked them with JKR as he went (of course, he only checked words he was uncertain of. I for one think "obliviate" is pronounced "ob-liv-i-ah-tay"--sounds more Latin--but JD disagrees). Back to Auror. So much for definitive: he pronounces it two different ways! Usually AU-ror, as Nathan says, like "horror" without the "h," but at least once he pronounced it "au-ROAR." I assume that latter was an error. I listened before I read, and it was really funny trying to figure out the spellings (Bonsbatons? McGonagle? Griffindor? Vila (as in Bob)?). Because of Dale's British accent I thought Dumbledore's phoenix was named Forks! Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "And on Wednesday, I think I'll come off worst in a fight." "Aaah, I was going to have a fight. Okay, I'll lose a bet." "Yeah, you'll be betting I'll win my fight. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ----------------------------------------------------------------- the above exchange was delivered so hilariously by JD that I had to pull over and laugh my *** off before it was safe to resume driving From sungod at themail.com Thu Jan 11 14:08:04 2001 From: sungod at themail.com (sungod at themail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:08:04 -0000 Subject: Maybe you missed us when we moved? Message-ID: <93keo4+16ua@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8983 Maybe you missed us when we moved? Potter's Domain II * Harry Potter Book and Movie Information * Pictures not seen anywhere else on the web (only 3) * Message Forum (getting more active daily) * Online Chat (I saw a conversation in there once) * Send a Harry Potter e-Card * Enter our competition to win book 5 when it's released * Seven different crosswords to do online or print out for later * Try our online quizes test your knowledge of the Wizarding world * Three different wordsearches to try (different every time) * Fan Fiction and Fan Art (send in yours we'll have it up in days) * Harry Potter Themes, Desktop Wallpaper, links to screensavers * Of course the obligatory Harry Potter merchandise (buy it here) * Reviews of 30+ great books to read while waiting for book five * Reviews of great picture books for your little ones also * Over 100 pages on Harry Potter check it out http://pottersdomain.eqrealm.com From pbnesbit at msn.com Thu Jan 11 14:14:23 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:14:23 -0000 Subject: Amazon.com thing Message-ID: <93kf3v+3v4d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8984 Heidi-- I pre-ordered both upcoming books through Barnes and Noble. You can order individually. I'd also pre-order Order of the Phoenix if I could find anyone listing it! Parker From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 11 14:16:16 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:16:16 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation and FAQ's Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8985 Amy wrote: "I generally consider Jim Dale's pronunciations definitive because he checked them with JKR as he went (of course, he only checked words he was uncertain of. I for one think "obliviate" is pronounced "ob-liv-i-ah-tay"--sounds more Latin--but JD disagrees)." How do we deal with the fact that both Jim Dale and Stephen Fry supposedly checked the pronunciations with Jo before and during production but there are differences in the way that the two of them pronounce certain names (such as Voldemort)? They can't both be correct if they don't agree! Voicelady wrote: ""A Prayer for Owen Meany" was the best book I have EVER read. And I read absolutely everything and anything I can get my hands on." I think you have made a mistake here - the idea is to make no comments on the FAQ's that you are writing. If you talk about them then you just make more work for yourself! Simon From vderark at bccs.org Thu Jan 11 14:24:36 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:24:36 -0000 Subject: Marauders Timeline In-Reply-To: <005c01c07bcd$9b98d310$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <93kfn5+nkce@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8986 > I tend to agree with Steve's timeline in the Lexicon. Lupin tells Harry that the Whomping Willow (is that right?) was planted the year that he arrived and that Dumbledore was headmaster. Dumbledore didn't become headmaster until 1972, which would mean that Lupin, James, Lily, Sirius would have been at Hogwarts no earlier than 1972. Note, however, that the timeline you're referring to is a RELATIVE one, which means that I don't know what date it all starts with. Since we can't pin down an actual date for the Marauders to be at Hogwarts, I chose one that had some logic to it and created the timeline relative to that. Dumbledore became headmaster and with that administrative change, Lupin was allowed to attend. But we don't even know how old Lupin was at that time...had he NOT come to school for a few years, then when Dumbledore took over did he get to come? We do know that Lupin was described as "quite young" in PA, which doesn't tell us chronological age, I realize, with wizards' extended lifespan. But putting that aside, it suggests to me that Lupin (and the others) would be no more than thirty in 1993, the beginning of the book PA. So that means they were born in the early 1960's. But it's all relative. And there are plenty of perfectly reasonable scenarios which would throw all this out the window in a hot second. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 11 14:34:14 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 11 Jan 2001 06:34:14 -0800 Subject: Re FAQ's Message-ID: <20010111143414.11435.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 8987 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 14:42:26 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:42:26 -0000 Subject: Almost irresolvable time problem (Weasleys) Message-ID: <93kgoi+tp5t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8988 Here's another problem with Weasley ages, and it exists whether or not Charlie's Gryffindor team ever won the cup. Okay, sticking with 1980 as the year Harry & Ron were born (like Steve, creator-god of the Lexicon, I take Nick's Deathday date as the clearest sign that JKR is placing the books in a definite, real-world time frame, namely the 1990's). When were all the Weasleys born? 1981 Ginny--not yet at Hogwarts when PS/SS begins in 1991 1980 Ron--a first-year in 1991 1978 Fred and George--third-years in 1991 (proof, GoF) 1976 Percy--fifth-year in 1991 (proof throughout--he graduates in PoA) Even setting aside the hope that Charlie was on a champion Quidditch team (which Griffindor hasn't had since 1983), we know he wasn't in school in 1991--i.e., he's at least 3 years older than Percy. Even so, that puts him on the disastrous 1990-91 team McGonagall talks about (PS/SS, p152 US, chapter 9), which is possible but unlikely. But stick with me for a minute--for reasons that will shortly become clear let's make Charlie as young as possible and say he DID graduate just before PS begins: 1973 Charlie--graduated Hogwarts 1991 1972 Bill (again, making him as young as possible)--graduated Hogwarts 1990 Here's the problem: Ginny says flat out that she can remember when Bill went to Hogwarts: "I've looked forward to coming to Hogwarts ever since B-Bill came and n-now I'll have to leave . . ." (CoS 323 in US ed, chapter 17). If Bill is 9 years older than her that seems impossible. If Bill is older still, which he would have to be to put poor Charlie on a champion team, it's definitely impossible. This timeline does have the advantage of placing Bill's graduation 5 years before the third task of GoF ("It's great being back here . . . Haven't seen this place for five years," GoF 616 US, ch. 31). For the record, however, I think that line isn't very indicative. There's lots of reasons someone comes back to his alma mater long after graduation, e.g. his brothers' graduations for one. But the Ginny-Bill age gap seems tough to argue with. Amy Z From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 11 13:59:39 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:59:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: not a silly question References: <93jlpl+l58s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007101c07bd6$bef94980$b259d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 8989 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > Thanks, Simon! > > Aside from "Paradigm of Uncertainty" and "The Letter" are there any > other fics that are a "must read"? I read through all four books in > about 6 days, and would really like to find something to fill the gap > until the next book! > > Rachel You can not leave Cassandra Claire's Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister out of the "must read" category. She changed so many people's view of Draco! Also try Heidi's "A Surfeit of Curses." carole From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 14:56:37 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:56:37 -0000 Subject: Malfoy name (drifting OT) In-Reply-To: <93k50k+nvcv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93khj5+2rf6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8990 > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > wrote: > > > Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, > Lux) which > Lucifer itself is an ironic name. It means "light-bearer." Lucifer, before his fall, was the most beautiful of the angels and, I believe, God's right-hand man. I think light-bearer might have been intended pejoratively because it connects to the myth of Prometheus--Lucifer tried to bring light/power to humanity, and the gods don't approve of that. (Whoops, I'm getting back to His Dark Materials again . . . & my pagan, heterodox tendencies are showing. Meet me on the "Prometheus Unbound" e-group, .) I might have dreamed up that connection. I should put it in a sermon. Anyway, there have been lots of names throughout Christian history that sound like Lucifer and sometimes the connection WAS noticed. I read that St. Lucy/Lucia was neglected for a long time because of her name. But even St. Luke, the Evangelist, shares a similar name with Lucifer! I think JKR named him Lucius because it looks like Luscious. Great raw material for slashers. Malfoy & Sons: purveyors of leather pants since 1412. Amy Z From heiditandy at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 14:57:09 2001 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 06:57:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Almost irresolvable time problem (Weasleys) Message-ID: <20010111145709.5272.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8991 --- aiz24 at hotmail.com wrote: > Here's the problem: Ginny says flat out that she > can remember when > Bill went to Hogwarts: "I've looked forward to > coming to Hogwarts > ever since B-Bill came and n-now I'll have to leave > . . ." (CoS 323 in > US ed, chapter 17). If Bill is 9 years older than > her that seems > impossible. If Bill is older still, which he would > have to be to put > poor Charlie on a champion team, it's definitely > impossible. > I think some of us discussed this early last fall & concluided that when Ginny (very distraught at the time) said that, she wasn't refering to bill's *starting* at Hogwarts but Bill *going* to Hogwarts - in other words, by "came" she could be refering to Bill's 7th year, and if he was 18 at the time, and she was, say 3 or 4, she could remember it & they could be 15ish years apart, and Charlie could be 14 years older than Ginny which could put him as having graduated 6 or 7 years before ron & harry started ===== heidi tandy What Maureen Dowd thinks David Souter was thinking on Monday, December 11, 2000: I know the Bushes are furious at me. That'll teach 'em to assume that a guy living like a monk in an isolated New Hampshire farmhouse is some kind of Live Free or Die nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 14:58:18 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:58:18 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. In-Reply-To: <009201c07bc1$77586440$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93khma+59cl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8992 Simon reasonably asks: > How can two guys make a lovechild? Amy Z reasonably responds: It's magic! ;-) A From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 15:13:38 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:13:38 -0000 Subject: Marauders Timeline In-Reply-To: <93kfn5+nkce@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93kij2+thn3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8993 I didn't remember a date for Dumbledore's appointment as Head. I agree, if he became head in 1972, the Marauders' era starts then. MWPP can't have been born earlier than '61--even if Lupin did start at Hogwarts at older than 11 because of his difficulties being accepted, James et al were his year and therefore would've been younger than him. So I guess Harry WAS born when James and Lily were under 20. We may learn a lot more about this when we learn what Lily and James did for a living. (God help JKR if she isn't paying as much attention to these details as her faithful fans. . . watch, she'll say Lily and James spent 15 years working against V post-graduation and all hell will break loose.) Amy Z From vderark at bccs.org Thu Jan 11 15:17:36 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:17:36 -0000 Subject: Almost irresolvable time problem (Weasleys) In-Reply-To: <93kgoi+tp5t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93kiqg+ns7c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8994 > Steve, creator-god of the Lexicon, I'm taking on mythic proportions, am I? My wife will have a good time with THAT one. I did read a review from some London newspaper last night which decribed my efforts as obsessive--sweet, but obessive. That's a better description, I think. That's one my wife would agree with wholeheartedly. And I'm not always sweet, even. Which leaves... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 15:20:33 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:20:33 -0000 Subject: Almost irresolvable time problem (Weasleys) In-Reply-To: <20010111145709.5272.qmail@web9502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93kj01+7cnb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8995 heidi tandy wrote: > > > I think some of us discussed this early last fall & > concluided that when Ginny (very distraught at the > time) said that, she wasn't refering to bill's > *starting* at Hogwarts but Bill *going* to Hogwarts - > in other words, by "came" she could be refering to > Bill's 7th year, and if he was 18 at the time, and she > was, say 3 or 4, she could remember it & they could be > 15ish years apart, and Charlie could be 14 years older > than Ginny which could put him as having graduated 6 > or 7 years before ron & harry started > I thought of that but it really doesn't seem to fit with the way Ginny says it. She would have at least one other brother there and Bill would've been there for years--why say it the way she does? She would say "I've wanted to come to Hogwarts since I was 3" or something like that. Oh well. I'll go with it if it gives Charlie his glory. This sports fan weeps at the thought of another Yaz.* Amy Z *Note to non-baseball fans: Charles Yastrzemski, Boston Red Sox great who never won a World Series. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 15:28:23 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:28:23 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation and FAQ's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93kjen+2794@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 8996 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > How do we deal with the fact that both Jim Dale and Stephen Fry supposedly > checked the pronunciations with Jo before and during production but there > are differences in the way that the two of them pronounce certain names > (such as Voldemort)? > > They can't both be correct if they don't agree! > No kidding? I haven't heard Stephen Fry's reading. I don't really care about THE pronunciation so long as *I* can pronounce them. I gave up on Lord of the Rings when I first tried reading it partly because I couldn't stand reading things I couldn't pronounce in my head. Praise be to my saintly spouse, who read the whole trilogy to me 10 years later. But Voldemort is pronounced with a silent T--any fool knows that. Amy Z From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Jan 11 16:01:20 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:01:20 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Double classes [and Rickman] Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8997 ** --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" ** wrote: ** > > CHANGE OF SUBJECT: ** > Amanda and Dinah are Rickman fans. Is there a big overlap between ** the group of people who are Rickman fans and the group of people who ** are Snape fans? ** ** Well, I'm only in one part of that particular Venn diagram ** (the "Rickman only" spot). Rickman as Snape... I'm not sure how I ** feel about it. ** ** --Ebony (who can't believe she's replying to a casting post) I'm with Ebony on that. I love Rickman, not a huge Snape fan. Of course, I'm fully prepared to change that stance after I see Rickman as Snape. I think he's going to be absolutely perfect, and Rickman has a way of making me like things I didn't before. Mer From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Jan 11 16:11:55 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:11:55 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: My boss Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8998 ** I think HP is a very appropriate calendar. When it comes to flying ** genius, he outstrips the Bros. Wright by far! ** ** Maybe your museum should have an exhibit: "The Physics of ** Quidditch" ** or some such. ** ** Amy Z. Good point! Maybe I should mention that... We did have an exhibit about Science Fiction vs. Science Fact based around the Pod Racer from Phantom Menace (we had the only full mock-up made donated to us, so it hung in our gallery with a great Tatooine backdrop complete with sand). We did a whole thing about how different science fiction crafts flew and compared them to the SR-71 Blackbird spy plane. Now, if I can figure out the actual physics of broom flying... Mer From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Jan 11 16:15:03 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:15:03 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Fossil Watch Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 8999 The watch you see in the mirror on that site is the watch I have. Hmm. Mer ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Sara Sturtevant [mailto:ssturtevant at home.com] ** Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:30 PM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] HP Fossil Watch ** ** ** Hello! ** I am new here so please forgive any mistakes... the ** fossil.com website has a ** teaser photo of one of the watches, it's to be a limited ** edition series of ** watches. ** There are so many HP things to wait for, movie, books, ** watches -I will be ** stark raving mad with anticpation by the time November gets here! ** ** Sara ** ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Jan 11 16:20:06 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Phoenix Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9000 Stephanie shared from Owen Meany: ** "There was quite a good drawing of a Phoenix, that mythical ** bird that was ** supposed to burn itself on a funeral pyre and then rise up ** from its own ** ashes. Under the drawing, Owen had written, 'OFTEN A SYMBOL ** OF REBORN ** IDEALISM, OR HOPE - OR AN EMBLEM OF IMMORTALITY' " First let me say if you haven't read this book, do so immediately! I love John Irving in general, especially for clever plot twists, but this book is fantastic. As for the Phoenix, my first thought is about the Order of the Phoenix tied to the thought of immortality. It also seems that Voldemort follows the path of the Phoenix by being 'killed' then rising again. It seems to have happened several times so far. I think also the Phoenix in HP is a bit of a symbol of 'good will always rise again triumphant.' Of course this is all my opinion. :) Mer From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 16:29:48 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:29:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <004801c07bcc$da94e5f0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <3A5DDF7B.E6E9B63E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9001 For us poor folk in Texas--How many of us are there, anyway? How big would *our* regional meeting be? I can bring cupcakes.... --Amanda, South Texas From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 16:34:03 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:34:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. References: <93khma+59cl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5DE07A.5371A18E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9002 aiz24 at hotmail.com wrote: > Simon reasonably asks: > > > How can two guys make a lovechild? > > Amy Z reasonably responds: It's magic! It must be, for a guy to willingly undergo the nine months of total discomfort, shapelessness, sleeplessness, sickness, and self-image erosion we call the joy of pregnancy.... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 16:35:38 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 10:35:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pronunciation and FAQ's References: <93kjen+2794@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5DE0D9.EA22C18D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9003 aiz24 at hotmail.com wrote: > But Voldemort is pronounced with a silent T--any fool knows that. > Which leaves those of us who are not fools to pronounce it correctly, yes? --Amanda From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 16:43:43 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:43:43 -0000 Subject: The Phoenix In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93knrv+24ac@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9004 The phoenix is definitely on the side of good in the HP canon thus far. Immortality, on the other hand, is not viewed entirely positively. Dumbledore doesn't criticize the Flamels, but contrast his views of death as a rest from life and/or "another great adventure" (PS/SS, 297/US ed., ch. 17) with Voldemort's, whose goal is to conquer death (GF, 653/US ed., ch. 33) and whose followers are called Death Eaters. We seem to be headed, thematically, for a critical view of those who want to escape death entirely. Perhaps the problem is not so much with immortality per se, but with deathlessness as an ultimate goal. What matters most is not how long you live but what you do with your years, and Voldemort is not exactly spending his on good works. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 16:45:39 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:45:39 -0000 Subject: joys of pregnancy (OT) In-Reply-To: <3A5DE07A.5371A18E@texas.net> Message-ID: <93knvj+g57q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9005 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > aiz24 at h... wrote: > > > Simon reasonably asks: > > > > > How can two guys make a lovechild? > > > > Amy Z reasonably responds: It's magic! > > It must be, for a guy to willingly undergo the nine months of total > discomfort, shapelessness, sleeplessness, sickness, and self-image > erosion we call the joy of pregnancy.... > > --Amanda But as a reward for all your trouble, you get a sweet little Draco . . . that must make it worth every minute. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 16:46:47 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 16:46:47 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation and FAQ's In-Reply-To: <3A5DE0D9.EA22C18D@texas.net> Message-ID: <93ko1n+cibd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9006 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > aiz24 at h... wrote: > > > But Voldemort is pronounced with a silent T--any fool knows that. > > > > Which leaves those of us who are not fools to pronounce it correctly, > yes? Ha ha! Amy Z not just ANY fool From rgoertz at austin.rr.com Thu Jan 11 17:05:02 2001 From: rgoertz at austin.rr.com (Ryan Goertz) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 17:05:02 -0000 Subject: Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) In-Reply-To: <3A5DDF7B.E6E9B63E@texas.net> Message-ID: <93kp3u+ivit@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9007 I have been wondering that myself. It seems that there is a small group of Texans on this list. Ryan who resides in Austin. > For us poor folk in Texas--How many of us are there, anyway? From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 11 17:23:24 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:23:24 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Casting suggestion References: Message-ID: <003a01c07bf3$34ea17c0$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9008 > Oh, I don't think he's too old. My problem was that I'm going to be > visualising him as the Spock character from GalaxyQuest: > "By the Twin Pillars of Vroon, Potter!" > --John LOL! Maybe you should picture him like the Sheriff of Nottingham in Robin Hood. All the spitting, drooling and mad raving and that certain lust for killing... it certainly has something Snapish Dinah 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 11 18:06:18 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:06:18 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. References: <20010111140125.11204.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <021e01c07bf9$32f58c00$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9009 > > 1. Does Lucius have any good qualities?> > Why, yes, he has a lovely singing voice. He's a tenor. But when the three tenors rejected him, that's when he vowed vengeance against the rest of the world, and became a bitter, evil man. > > 3. Will he live beyond the end of Book 7? > Yes, but he will develop Alzheimers and come to believe that he is really Jackie Onassis. > > 5. Did Snape and Malfoy ever have a fling? - Is Draco their love child? Who was on top? > Here you've hit the nail on the head. And Lucius did not wear the pants in that relationship. > Jeralyn, the Voicelady You're definitely evil, verrrrry evil! Dinah 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 17:40:38 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 11:40:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <004801c07bcc$da94e5f0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <000201c07c01$a048a1e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9010 Ok, party people. I'm in Canton, Ohio, and don't have a car, but give me SARTA (Stark Area Regional Transit Authority) and I can go pretty far! :) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 6:48 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) (Raising hand in the air like Hermione usually does...) I'll help organize something too. I'm in the middle of co-organizing a "Global Gathering" in another fandom - I think we've got 13 cities all over the world all getting together the same weekend. It's really not as hard as you'd think it would be. I'm all for meeting other HP fans. If there's any interest, I'd me more than happy to help! Amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Ebony To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ABoyko at s... wrote: > From my personal experience, the only person who turned out to be > significantly different in real life was a woman who was a bit psycho. But > I've heard stories of men who've stepped off the plane 200 pounds heavier > than the picture they sent, etc. It's such a small world that I wonder why people would misrepresent themselves on the Internet. Several times I've ended up chatting with "strangers" who turned out to be friends of friends... happened a lot when I was in undergrad. Sending embellished pictures is silly for the same reason. The online world is just like the real world in many ways. Be yourself! I know there's been talk about a 2001 or 2002 HP4GU trip to England. But I'm thinking it would be really fun to have annual HP regional get-togethers. This way, those who can't afford the expense of traveling can still meet and greet other fans. For instance, there's several regular posters who live in SE Michigan... lots in the London area... others in Texas... others in Australia, etc. When the movie comes out in November, why not see it with the families and friends of other fans? I know although my sisters and sweetheart won't mind seeing it with me (they sat through 12 hours of Anne movies), they will not want to dissect it the way I'm sure another fan would. So the first of the regional gatherings could be in November 2001. We could plan a second one when Book 5 is released in 2002. I've participated in this sort of thing in other fandoms... the Anne/LMM ones I've participated in are so much fun it's unbelievable. It's always a blast meeting people in person. The time flies by... and then there's pictures and memories. List moderators, I'd be more than willing to help coordinate this if there's interest. Should I set up a poll, or wait to see if anyone else would like to participate in this sort of thing? For all I know, most of the list may cherish anonymity. ;) --Ebony To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Click here for Business information To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tlkling at health-partners.org Thu Jan 11 18:22:23 2001 From: tlkling at health-partners.org (tlkling at health-partners.org) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:22:23 -0500 Subject: New Member Message-ID: <852569D1.0065C9CC.00@mgcrsmtp.health-partners.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9011 Hi! My name is Toby, and I just recently joined the list. I guess I joined at a timely spot, as I just finished reading The Goblet of Fire. :-) My husband got me the series for Christmas, I read them almost non-stop [after work, that is. :-)]. I am 25 years old, and I live in Ohio with my husband and our five babies: four cats and a dog. :-) I am really excited to have found a group like this. It's good to know that I'm not the only "grown up" who is addicted to these delightful books. I'm looking forward to getting in on the discussion! Toby From rhodhry at yahoo.no Thu Jan 11 18:33:13 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:33:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: Books, fanfic, Malfoy, gathering and more books Message-ID: <20010111183313.9602.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9012 Book recommendation: I see noone has mentioned it, so I will recommend Katharine Kerr's books in the Deverry-series ('Daggerspell', 'Darkspell', 'Dawnspell' and 'Dragonspell'), Westlands cycle ('A Time of Exile', 'A Time of Omens', 'A Time of War' and 'A Time of Justice') and Dragon Mage-series ('The Red Wyvern' and 'The Black Raven'). They should be read in this order. There is at least one more book to be written in this series. The story(ies) takes place in a world not on this planet, but nevertheless populated by Celts, stemming from Gallia Transalpina. The story goes through many generations and reincarnations of main characters, but one character stays alive through all timelines (he experienced that when you exclaim "I shall not rest until I have [insert appropriate aspiration]", the powers that be will hear you). The books skip between these timelines a bit, but I did not find it confusing - rather it suited the story. Those here who are also members of the PoU-list, will understand what I mean (though they may not believe me) when I say that the covers on some of the books make Leatherpants!Draco look rather tame, even in Starling's rendition (those covers also don't have much to do with the story). ;-) ------------------ Fanfic-recommendation: I recently stumbled over a fanfic called 'His Majesty's Secret Service'. It is well-written and, as far as I can tell, original. It also has an interesting, and IMO plausible, view on the house-elf plight. The author-page is at: http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=Directory-AuthorProfile&UserID=33896 I will also recommend the various Eliza-series by Eliza Diawna Snape, whose can be found at: http://www.thebesthpfanfic.homestead.com/ and http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory-authorProfile&userid=14420 ------------------ Snuffles MacGoo wrote: [snip] > "Malfoy - I like the french Mal foi - 'bad faith' derivation though I think there are > other interpretations about." [snip] You know, of course, that Malfoy is a real name, used by, among others, one Bernard Malfoy, who I believe is still Director of Research at Institut Curie in France. As far as I recall he is especially involved in breast-cancer research. He participated in a project on 'Structural and functional alterations of chromosomes from cancer cells' - a presentation (including an email-adress to Dr. Malfoy) can be seen at: http://www.curie.fr/sr/cdrom/equipes/malfe.htm There was also one Bruno Malfoy, who came in as no. 795 at the 1999 New York City Marathon (R), and I know I have seen an Eric Malfoy around somewhere. > "Good Qualities - None (I haven't even come across any fan-fiction writers who have > been able to invent any - maybe I'm not widely enough read )" [snip] I believe I have seen at least one - I think it was by Pikacheeka. ------------------ "Amy" wrote: > (Raising hand in the air like Hermione usually does...) > > I'll help organize something too. I'm in the middle of co-organizing a "Global > Gathering" in another fandom - I think we've got 13 cities all over the world all > getting together the same weekend. It's really not as hard as you'd think it would > be. I'm all for meeting other HP fans. If there's any interest, I'd me more than > happy to help! > > Amy" [snip] On this topic - how many Scandinavians are we here on this board? Certainly a joint Norwegian-Swedish meet should be possible. ------------------ "Parker Brown Nesbit" wrote: > Heidi-- > > I pre-ordered both upcoming books through Barnes and Noble. You can order > individually. I'd also pre-order Order of the Phoenix if I could find anyone listing > it! Parker" In August, just after having read GoF, I discovered a possibility to preorder Book 5 from Bokkilden, A Norwegian online bookstore, so I promptly ordered it. Now I discover that the whole thing was some sort of technical malfunction - you can still order it, but on the infopage they tell you not to, so I doubt the orders are valid right now. ------------------ Incidentally, I noted yesterday that there is apparently some new fitness-apparatus on the market, under the name of TortureTrac (tm)... And while I am typing this mail, the TV-news just told us about the new US TV-series 'Temptation Island'. Blech! ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 11 18:49:38 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:49:38 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Books References: <20010111183313.9602.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02d901c07bff$410b2420$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9013 Okay, does anyone know this book? It's called "Sirius", written by Olaf Stapledon, and it sounds really interesting. Amazon.de Synopsis: Sirius is Thomas Trelone's great experiment, a dog with the brain and intelligence of a human, raised and educated in Trelone's family alongside his daughter Plaxy. But Sirius isn't human and the conflicts and inner turmoil that torture him cannot be resolved. I just try to decide wether it would be goo reading material or not. Dinah 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 19:01:43 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:01:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Phoenix References: <93knrv+24ac@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5E0316.52809317@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9014 aiz24 at hotmail.com wrote: > The phoenix is definitely on the side of good in the HP canon thus > far. > > Immortality, on the other hand, is not viewed entirely positively. But the central image of the phoenix is not immortality per se, but rebirth. A new phoenix rises from the ashes of the old. Rebirth, a la "Poland has not yet died" (a line from the national anthem, I believe)--even when all seems lost, there can be a renewal. As in Poland, which disappeared from the map for what, 300 years? And had to teach its native tongue to its youth underground. So I think the phoenix is a "good guy" symbol for the renewal it represents in the face of Voldemort's threat; I think any connotations of immortality are secondary. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 19:03:40 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:03:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] joys of pregnancy (OT) References: <93knvj+g57q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5E038B.90D5862B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9015 aiz24 at hotmail.com wrote: > But as a reward for all your trouble, you get a sweet little Draco . > . . that must make it worth every minute. Oh, it is! It is! Want to borrow one (or more) of mine, so you can experience all the joy firsthand? I'll share! (You haven't read "Horton hatches the egg," have you?) --Amanda From john at walton.to Thu Jan 11 19:05:29 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:05:29 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Worldwide HP4GU parties: Scotland/New York In-Reply-To: <93kp3u+ivit@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9016 Okay, I go to university in Scotland (St Andrews) and live in New York. If anyone's visiting Scotland or the NY area (when I'm home!) I'd love to meet up. Just yell via email. Cheers, --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#70 When my guards split up to search for intruders, they will always travel in groups of at least two. They will be trained so that if one of them disappears mysteriously while on patrol, the other will immediately initiate an alert and call for backup, instead of quizzically peering around a corner. ======================================== From john at walton.to Thu Jan 11 19:08:59 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:08:59 +0000 Subject: FW: flibbertigibbet: Dictionary.com Word of the Day In-Reply-To: <200101110800.f0B800l29388@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9017 This seemed like such a JKR-type word that I just HAD to send it to the list :) Can you not see a character (owl, perhaps?) named Flibbertigibbet? --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Don't lose your right to vote -- let Jeb Bush take it away from you! ======================================== Word of the Day for Thursday January 11, 2001: flibbertigibbet \FLIB-ur-tee-jib-it\, noun: A silly, flighty, or excessively talkative person. We discover here not the flibbertigibbet Connolly describes but a serious reader (Goethe, Tolstoy, Proust) who found her cultural ideal in 18th-century France. --Martin Stannard, "Enter Shrieking," review of Love From Nancy, edited by Charlotte Mosley, [1]New York Times, November 28, 1993 He argues persuasively that Millay's reputation has been harmed not only by academics who dread and fear her heartfelt "simplicity," but by the very admirers who wished to promote her as a kind of whimsical flibbertigibbet, a poetical Anne of Green Gables. --Liz Rosenberg, "So Young, So Good, So Popular," review of Edna St. Vincent Millay: Selected Poems, edited by Colin Falck, [2]New York Times, March 15, 1992 _________________________________________________________ Flibbertigibbet is from Middle English flipergebet, which is probably an imitation of the sound of meaningless chatter. Trivia: Flibbertigibbet originally meant a gossip or chatterbox, but it soon took on the idea of a light-minded or frivolous person, especially a pert young woman with such qualities. Flibbertigibbet was also the name of an imp or demon; it appears in a list of 40 fiends in a book by Samuel Harsnet, and also in Shakespeare: This is the foul fiend Flibbertigibbet: he begins at curfew, and walks till the first cock; he gives the web and the pin, squints the eye, and makes the hare-lip; mildews the white wheat, and hurts the poor creature of earth. --King Lear, iii. 4. Five fiends have been in poor Tom at once: of lust, as Obidicut; Hobbididance, prince of dumbness; Mahu, of stealing; Modo, of murder; Flibbertigibbet, of mopping and mowing. --Ibid., iv. 1. References 1. http://www.nytimes.com/ 2. http://www.nytimes.com/ _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ To subscribe to the list by email, send a blank message to WordoftheDay-on at lists.lexico.com To unsubscribe via email, send a blank message to WordoftheDay-off at lists.lexico.com Subscriptions can be turned on and off from the Web at http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/list/ Dictionary.com Word of the Day http://www.dictionary.com/wordoftheday/ (C) 2000, Lexico LLC. From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Jan 11 19:45:41 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 19:45:41 -0000 Subject: Lucius Malfoy's name (OT?) In-Reply-To: <93k50k+nvcv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93l2h5+tdoo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9018 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > wrote: > > > Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, > Lux) which > > I'm not sure you're right here. I don't think Lucius comes from > Lucifer at all. Lucius was a very common personal name in Ancient > rome and I doubt that would have been the case if it came from the > name of satan. I'm not sure that the name Lucifer predates the name > Lucius. Of course I could be wrong; my entire knowledge of ancient > rome stems from Lindsey Davies novels. > > > Dai Lucius doesn't come from Lucifer, but if I'm not mistaken, both "Lucius" and "Lucifer" derive from the same Latin word, Lux, meaning light. They're not the same name, but they have similar meanings; Lucifer doesn't actually refer to Satan per se but to Satan before the fall, when he was the brightest of God's angels -- thus the appellation "bringer of light." Lucifer as an appellation for Satan IIRC, didn't even come about until the late fourth century Latin translations of the original Hebrew which referred to him as "helel ben-shadar" which translates as "shining one, son of the morning" or and which got turned into "bringer of light." It's a bit of an ironic name to begin with since apres the fall, Lucifer was no longer particularly, er, shiny. Okay wayyy more than anyone wanted to know, Cassie From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Thu Jan 11 19:49:31 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:49:31 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] New Member Message-ID: <91.5627327.278f684b@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9019 In a message dated 1/11/01 1:47:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, tlkling at health-partners.org writes: << I am really excited to have found a group like this. It's good to know that I'm not the only "grown up" who is addicted to these delightful books. I'm looking forward to getting in on the discussion! Toby >> ~~~~~~~ Welcome to the group! Glad you joined us. Tessie From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 11 20:03:37 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:03:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Books References: <20010111183313.9602.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> <02d901c07bff$410b2420$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A5E1198.A4B6B3F3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9020 Dinah wrote: > Okay, does anyone know this book? > > It's called "Sirius", written by Olaf Stapledon, and it sounds really > interesting. > > Amazon.de Synopsis: > Sirius is Thomas Trelone's great experiment, a dog with the brain and > intelligence of a human, raised and educated in Trelone's family alongside > his daughter Plaxy. But Sirius isn't human and the conflicts and inner > turmoil that torture him cannot be resolved. Unless this was written recently, I've read it. I was a bit young for it; it was years later that I realized that a physical relationship had been strongly implied between the dog and the daughter (nothing graphic at all, you guys)--I was not yet aware enough to catch the implication. And as I recall, it was a bit preachy, and a downer, sort of like Flowers for Algernon. Now that I've learned to Appreciate Literature, I'd probably like it. For lighthearted, not-great escapism, try "Dogsbody," which I loved in junior high, and would like to find again someplace. --Amanda From NelsonA at bayltd.com Thu Jan 11 19:59:15 2001 From: NelsonA at bayltd.com (Nelson, Allen) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 13:59:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) Message-ID: <2140D17A1B76D411B611004033D33BA91545EC@BAYMAIL> No: HPFGUIDX 9021 I too live in south Texas. Just let me know when & where. Allen N. -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [mailto:editor at texas.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 10:30 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) For us poor folk in Texas--How many of us are there, anyway? How big would *our* regional meeting be? I can bring cupcakes.... --Amanda, South Texas To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pandora_lily at yahoo.com Thu Jan 11 20:12:40 2001 From: pandora_lily at yahoo.com (Seattle de Taeloure) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 12:12:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Almost irresolvable time problem (Weasleys) Message-ID: <20010111201240.15449.qmail@web511.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9022 > I thought of that but it really doesn't seem to fit > with the way Ginny > says it. She would have at least one other brother > there and Bill > would've been there for years--why say it the way > she does? She would > say "I've wanted to come to Hogwarts since I was 3" > or something like > that. I have noticed (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Ginny seems to look up to Bill more than any of her other brothers. I think it makes sense, therfore, for her to talk about Bill going to Hogwarts, because she would want to follow in his footsteps. Just my opinion...which, when I take over the world, will be law. Raven __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 11 21:02:21 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:02:21 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pronunciation References: <93kei9+b5m3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002b01c07c11$dae6f030$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9023 > Because of Dale's British accent I thought Dumbledore's > phoenix was named Forks! Forks and Fawkes are homophones, at least in my dialect (Australian). Would you pronounce them differently? Simon. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 11 21:08:51 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:08:51 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. References: <93khma+59cl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006301c07c12$c244d3c0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9024 > Simon reasonably asks: > > > How can two guys make a lovechild? > > Amy Z reasonably responds: It's magic! I'm sure that particular bit of magic will not be featured in the canon :-) From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 11 21:12:54 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:12:54 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pronunciation and FAQ's References: <93kjen+2794@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007501c07c13$53e540d0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9025 > But Voldemort is pronounced with a silent T--any fool knows that. > I didn't give it a second thought, assuming the T was pronounced. Same with the rest of my family. I was surprised when I heard the Scholastic guide pronounce it with the silent T. Simon. From Yaz at good.co.uk Thu Jan 11 21:22:57 2001 From: Yaz at good.co.uk (Yaz) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 21:22:57 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Almost irresolvable time problem (Weasleys) References: <93kj01+7cnb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00f201c07c14$abe0cb00$4b4a01d5@merchantbtinternet.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9026 > Oh well. I'll go with it if it gives Charlie his glory. This sports > fan weeps at the thought of another Yaz.* > > Amy Z > > *Note to non-baseball fans: Charles Yastrzemski, Boston Red Sox great > who never won a World Series. No, no no, _I_ am Yaz... erk, does that mean you're going to cry now? *passes a box of tissues to Amy Z* ;-) Yaz From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 21:29:30 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:29:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT - A Prayer for Owen Meany (was: The Phoenix ) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9027 <"A Prayer for Owen Meany" was the best book I have EVER read. And I read absolutely everything and anything I can get my hands on. Jeralyn, the Voicelady> I just had to respond. i read a lot to, partyly bc i am disillusioned with most of myfriewnds lately(they are acting goofy)...anyways, I LOVED Owen Meany, i fell in love with the books and his character. It ties for my fav book...with get this...something on the totally opposite message/purpose/theme.....Ayn rand's Atlas Shrugged.....Amazing isn't it. ANyways, I was very impressed, esp since some of his other stuff (cider house rules, the movie suprised me by being good....and widow for a year) are some of those books i read but couldn't really enjoy! Stephanie who says, "Don't Worry, Harry Potter is next on the list ;) " _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Thu Jan 11 22:04:06 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 14:04:06 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pronunciation and FAQ's Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9028 Me too, though I did find my sister and I pronounced a few things differently from each other (and a few different from the Scholastic guide). Mer ** -----Original Message----- ** From: Simon Biber [mailto:simon at basilisk2.cjb.net] ** Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 1:13 PM ** To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com ** Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pronunciation and FAQ's ** ** ** > But Voldemort is pronounced with a silent T--any fool knows that. ** > ** ** I didn't give it a second thought, assuming the T was ** pronounced. Same with ** the rest of my family. I was surprised when I heard the ** Scholastic guide ** pronounce it with the silent T. ** ** Simon. ** ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ** ** ** From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 22:07:53 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:07:53 -0000 Subject: pronunciation In-Reply-To: <002b01c07c11$dae6f030$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93larp+84ii@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9029 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > Because of Dale's British accent I thought Dumbledore's > > phoenix was named Forks! > > Forks and Fawkes are homophones, at least in my dialect (Australian). Would > you pronounce them differently? Yup. In my dialect of US English, they're quite different. For one thing, the "r" in "Forks" is voiced. For another, the "aw" in "Fawkes" is said the way you'd lean over a baby: "Awwww..." The "o" in "Forks"--well, how can I describe it to someone who pronounces vowels differently? (Linguists have a notation to deal with this but I don't know it!) It's somewhere in between that "awwww" and a long "o" as in "bone." All of which is to say that you and Jim Dale both have much nicer accents than mine. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 22:11:06 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:11:06 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation and FAQ's In-Reply-To: <007501c07c13$53e540d0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93lb1q+vme8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9030 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > But Voldemort is pronounced with a silent T--any fool knows that. > > > > I didn't give it a second thought, assuming the T was pronounced. Same with > the rest of my family. I was surprised when I heard the Scholastic guide > pronounce it with the silent T. I was unconsciously translating from the French so pronounced it as French. Hmmm...subtle anti-French agenda on the part of JKR? Malfoy, Voldemort...call the French Anti-Defamation League! Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 22:14:01 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:14:01 -0000 Subject: OT - A Prayer for Owen Meany (was: The Phoenix ) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93lb79+94ig@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9031 A friend of mine just recommended a movie he says is based on A Prayer for Owen Meany: Simon Burch (sp?). FYI. Amy Z From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 10:28:26 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:28:26 +0100 Subject: Religion and Harry References: <003a01c07bf3$34ea17c0$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <006d01c07c82$6cba1120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9032 I just found an interesting critical essay about magic in Harry Potter as compared with its role in fantasy by overtly Christian authors like Lewis and Tolkein. The author is a RC apologist and develops a respectful and relatively balanced critique. Get it at his own site: http://members.tripod.com/Snyder_AMDG/SDG.html Mirrored here: http://www.christianfantasy.net/sdg1.html [The latter site--also RC--has a number of other Harry Potter reviews. The Webmistress doesn't think much of him.] ------------------------ A few comments on Magic, Middle Earth, Merlin Muggles and Meaning Premise: Of course, the essay starts from the premise that young people shouldn't experiment with the occult. Obviously, many members of this group don't agree with that premise, which will short circuit the whole essay. In particular, I don't think Wiccans (of whom the author makes explicit mention) will particularly appreciate being what the essay presumes children should never become. Content: I think Graydanus takes a heck of a long time to make a rather small point: the HP books are all about becoming a magician. Tolkein's and Lewis's books aren't. So *of course,* the heroes of the HP books could more directly role model future careers in wizardry or witchcraft. Fine. Point taken. (Whether that means anything is another question altogether; but it doesn't take several pages of literary analysis to prove the difference.) OTOH, if he really wants to obsess about the role of magic in books, he might take a closer look at the function of magic in Narnia. Narnian magic isn't just a curious extension to the normal Narnian physical laws; it's bound up in the basic parameters of reality. As opposed to Hogwarts magic, it's not just a sort physical force; it also has deep moral implications. For instance: When Aslan comes back to life after being killed by the White Witch, it is through "deep magic from before the dawn of time." Hence, magic in Narnia isn't just quidditch and special FX; it's a philosophical quantity--in fact, it's what makes redemption possible. So if anything, Narnia is actually more "pro-magic" than HP. True, the "magic" in the Narnia stories is embedded in an explicitly Christian worldview. However, it happens to be a Christian world view that integrates a panoply of pagan elements. And that's not just incidental to the story. C.S. Lewis was a Christian apologete--but one with deep respect toward many other religions. (BTW, his stance is challenging, complicated, and perhaps not entirely consistent.) In any case, if people really really want their children to fear any non-Christian approach to the supernatural, it would be consistent to keep both HP *and* Narnia locked up with the roach killer. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 10:32:00 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:32:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Howabout a Swiss Bash? References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9033 Ebony said, > So the first of the regional gatherings could be > in November 2001. We could plan a second one when Book 5 is released > in 2002. Say, now that's quite an idea. Er, I don't suppose there are any other Swiss--or even German or northern Italian--HP fans about the club? Which reminds me: I'd really like to get a feel for the German language HP community. Are there any insiders out there? > For all I > know, most of the list may cherish anonymity. ;) Important thought. Perhaps I'd better come with a false mustache. Or in drag. Or both. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who can't wear a false mustache because his beard gets in the way.) From dragonsbloodmoon at aol.com Thu Jan 11 23:29:22 2001 From: dragonsbloodmoon at aol.com (dragonsbloodmoon at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:29:22 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Pronunciation and FAQ's Message-ID: <93.565a766.278f9bd2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9034 In a message dated 1/11/2001 4:25:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, simon at basilisk2.cjb.net writes: << I didn't give it a second thought, assuming the T was pronounced. Same with the rest of my family. I was surprised when I heard the Scholastic guide pronounce it with the silent T. >> I hadn't thought of that, either. Which opens up a new possibility - he could be French. :-) Toby (I gave an intro earlier, under my work e-mail ) From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Thu Jan 11 23:38:26 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 11 Jan 2001 15:38:26 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) Message-ID: <20010111233826.8213.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9035 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 00:19:02 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 18:19:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9036 >For us poor folk in Texas--How many of us are there, anyway? How big would >*our* regional meeting be? I can bring cupcakes.... > >--Amanda, South Texas Well here is # 2, but I live north of houston....so we are prob no where close ;) Dang this 8 hour side to side humungous state Stephanie who is pretending she lives in Maine bc it is SO cold and i dont have a heavy jacket _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Jan 12 00:22:15 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:22:15 +1100 Subject: OT: pronunciation References: <93larp+84ii@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008b01c07c2d$b8708bd0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9037 > > Forks and Fawkes are homophones, at least in my dialect > > (Australian). Would you pronounce them differently? > > Yup. In my dialect of US English, they're quite different. For one > thing, the "r" in "Forks" is voiced. For another, the "aw" > in "Fawkes" is said the way you'd lean over a baby: "Awwww..." > The "o" in "Forks"--well, how can I describe it to someone who > pronounces vowels differently? (Linguists have a notation to deal > with this but I don't know it!) It's somewhere in between > that "awwww" and a long "o" as in "bone." Sorry -- your description wasn't very useful in allowing me to understand what sound you make. You say the 'r' is voiced, does that mean you pronounce it 'foreks'? To me, the letters 'or' and 'aw' denote the same sound. > All of which is to say that you and Jim Dale both have much nicer > accents than mine. I haven't heard Jim Dale, but I am interested in linguistics. Simon. From dragonsbloodmoon at aol.com Fri Jan 12 01:06:56 2001 From: dragonsbloodmoon at aol.com (dragonsbloodmoon at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:06:56 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: pronunciation Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9038 In a message dated 1/11/2001 7:34:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, simon at basilisk2.cjb.net writes: << You say the 'r' is voiced, does that mean you pronounce it 'foreks'? >> This wasn't directed towards me, but as a Yank, maybe I can help. :-) When you have an "o" and an "r" together, it makes a sound like "oar" (which, come to think if it, isn't much help, because you probably pronounce that differently as well. ) Toby From karob_7 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 01:27:49 2001 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (karob_7 at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:27:49 -0000 Subject: OT: pronunciation In-Reply-To: <008b01c07c2d$b8708bd0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93lmim+vj4m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9039 > Sorry -- your description wasn't very useful in allowing me to > understand what sound you make. You say the 'r' is voiced, does > that mean you pronounce it 'foreks'? To me, the letters 'or' > and 'aw' denote the same sound. > > Simon. Here is a link to a directory of American English sounds - with sound clips. http://classweb.gmu.edu/swidmaye/sounds/directory.html To hear an approximate of the way an American might pronounce 'aw' scroll down to the vowel sounds and click on the word 'ought' - (from there you can listen to the words 'caught' & 'ought' & and one other word - I forget now what it is) although, there are slight (and sometimes not so slight) regional differences in the pronunciation of 'aw'. Anyway, it's the closest thing I could find to explain without scouring the internet for hours. ;) As for forks... I guess it might sort of sound like 'foreks' to you if you heard it... You could scroll to the consonant pronunciations, click on 'rid' and from there click on 'body-bard' to hear the way we Americans tend to pronounce r's not followed by vowels. Karin From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Jan 12 02:06:32 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:06:32 +1100 Subject: OT: Re: pronunciation References: <93lmim+vj4m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00e101c07c3c$4a376440$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9040 > To hear an approximate of the way an American might pronounce 'aw' > scroll down to the vowel sounds and click on the word 'ought' - (from > there you can listen to the words 'caught' & 'ought' & and one other > word - I forget now what it is) although, there are slight (and > sometimes not so slight) regional differences in the pronunciation > of 'aw'. Anyway, it's the closest thing I could find to explain > without scouring the internet for hours. ;) The pronunciation of 'caught' on that site sounds like 'cart' but it should sound like 'court'. Similarly 'ought' on the site sounds like 'art' but to me should rhyme with the others. In my dialect, all these words rhyme -- 'court' and 'caught', 'sort' and 'sought', 'fort' and 'fought'. On the other hand their rendition of 'sought' sounds somewhere between 'sut' and 'sart'. I think the problem is that you Americans open your mouth too widely. All the "or" sounds get corrupted into "ar". > As for forks... I guess it might sort of sound like 'foreks' to you > if you heard it... You could scroll to the consonant pronunciations, > click on 'rid' and from there click on 'body-bard' to hear the way we > Americans tend to pronounce r's not followed by vowels. Ok the 'body' sounds like 'buddy' with some r colourisation (note, not colorization -- funny to have two spelling changes in the same word ). It's almost like 'bardy'. I can see what you mean by the voiced 'r'... when an 'r' is followed by a consonant you still pronounce it. In Australia we generally make them silent. So, the words 'bard' and 'barred' are homophones in my dialect, as are 'bored' and 'board'. None of these four have a voiced 'r'. Simon. From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 12 02:25:22 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:25:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter References: <20010111233826.8213.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <3A5E6B12.8A58007E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9041 Star wrote: > For instance, there's > > several regular posters who live in SE Michigan... lots in the London > > area... others in Texas... others in Australia, > > Texas? Who's in Texas? I recently moved to Texas and it woul dbe neat to meat other HP fans here hopefully not on the entire opposite side of the state that is. So far, Ryan, Allen, me, and a few others whose names escape me after a day of housecleaning and bathing kids. Ryan's in Austin, and Allen and I are both South Texas (which still covers a load of territory). Where are you? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 12 02:26:54 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:26:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter References: Message-ID: <3A5E6B6E.4397113A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9042 Stephanie Becvar wrote: > Well here is # 2, but I live north of houston....so we are prob no where > close ;) Dang this 8 hour side to side humungous state Atchally, if you're anywhere near The Woodlands, it's four hours (five if you let the kids go to the bathroom). I'm between San Antonio and Floresville. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 12 02:40:15 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:40:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--dialects, was pronunciation References: <93kei9+b5m3@eGroups.com> <002b01c07c11$dae6f030$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <3A5E6E8E.B4B4670C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9043 Simon Biber wrote: > Forks and Fawkes are homophones, at least in my dialect (Australian). Would > you pronounce them differently? I did a dialect study of east Texas for my honors paper in English, because dialect maps persistently place it in the Southern dialect, which is r-less (meaning the /r/ is dropped when it occurs in certain placements, like a British or Australian person [which, by the way, most Texans cannot distinguish betwixt]). No part of Texas is r-less, at least anymore--the Southern dialect is shrinking. But my grandmother was from east Texas, and *was* r-less, and I remember as a child begging her to say such things as "sugar" and "pepper" and "butter" because it sounded like /shugah/ and /peppah/ and /buttah/, which was endlessly amusing to us. She would have found "forks" and "fawkes" to be homophones, as well. The voiced /r/ sounds a lot like the "rrrrrr" noise you make when you're pretending to growl, hunting your kids. [I'm sure you can actually produce the noise, unlike the Irish with /th/, but I can't find you an example, sorry--I cannot, sitting here with no books in front of me, think of a word with the appropriate phoneme in the Australian dialect.] The /o/ in "forks" is much closer to a long /o/ than the "aw" in Fawkes, which is more the /ah/ of enlightenment, deepened a bit by the /w/--very much like the "awww" in response to a cute kid or puppy or such. Suffice it to say that in the American Midland dialect, which most of us speak some variant of, the two words do sound very different. Amanda, damn proud of her "y'all" and "fixin' to," thank you very much From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Jan 12 02:50:36 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 12 Jan 2001 02:50:36 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <979267836.53359@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9044 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: This is a location poll... several members have expressed interest in sponsoring local HP4GU gatherings. Please indicate your general region/location... subsequent polls will be much more specific, especially for our non-North American members. Thanks! o United Kingdom (England/Scotland/Wales) and Ireland o Continental Europe o Middle East/North Africa o Africa, sub-Saharan o Russia and former Soviet Union o Asia, China/Japan o Asia, Indonesia/Pacific Islands o Australia o North America, Canada (Western) o North America, Canada (Eastern) o North America, US (New England) o North America, US (Eastern Seaboard) o North America, US (Southeast) o North America, US (Midwest) o North America, US (Great Plains) o North America, US (Rocky Mountains) o North America, US (Southwest) o North America, US (Pacific Coast) o North America, Mexico o Central America/Caribbean o South America To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 03:05:31 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:05:31 -0000 Subject: Shipper Webpage Buttons (OT) Message-ID: <93ls9r+n4i5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9045 Hello, all-- Has anyone else seen this? Shipper Buttons http://www.geocities.com/gryffindor_stag/ShipperButtons.html Shipper Buttons (slash versions) http://www.geocities.com/gryffindor_stag/SLASH.html (slash pairings) My favorites on the main page are the H/O (Hagrid/Olympe) and the C/G (Colin/Ginny) ones. Both of the bumper sticker slogans are hilarious! And on the slash page, I laughed over "the other R/H". You can even propose your own pairings. Simon, here's your chance to promote Harry/Hedwig! (Just in case anyone wants to thank me for this un-birthday present, all cards, cash, and stock options can be forwarded to my e-mail address... all those Christmas bills have to be paid somehow. ;)) --Ebony From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 03:06:44 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:06:44 -0000 Subject: OT - Simon Birch (was; A Prayer for Owen Meany ) In-Reply-To: <93lb79+94ig@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93lsc4+ro4t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9046 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aiz24 at h... wrote: > A friend of mine just recommended a movie he says is based on A > Prayer for Owen Meany: Simon Burch (sp?). > > FYI. > > Amy Z I once saw an old bumper in a chrome-plating shop, that had been taken partially through the replating process a few inches at a time, so that the end result showed each step of the replating process; the right end was completely replated, the next section had been through everything but the final chrome coat, and so on until the left end, which was left dented and rusty. I mention this because "Birch" started out almost letter perfect to APfOM, but as it progressed it spiralled farther and farther away, until it's ending in a situation that in no ways resembles the book's ending. Fascinating. You could almost *hear* the script committee meetings; no wonder John Irving made them change the name. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 03:34:33 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:34:33 -0000 Subject: (very OT) London Business District Question... Message-ID: <93lu09+eean@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9047 So sorry for the interruption... wouldn't do it if it wasn't an emergency... *This* is why every creative writing teacher on earth advises would- be Rowlings to "write what you know". Is there a plate-glass high rise office building or civic structure anywhere in or near London? You don't find this sort of thing out from travel guides, you know. If you know of one, *please* e-mail me off list ASAP with the name of the building, the approximate location, a brief description, and how long it's been up (just the decade). A glass building with a greenish tinge would be ideal. I have just the high rise in mind, but as I can see it from my window right now, I don't think it's of much use for my purposes. ("We'll just Apparate to Michigan, and then..." Absolutely not.) If the glass isn't green-tinged, please let me know what color the glass is if it is tinted. I'm thinking that the magical/Muggle portals we've seen (Diagon Alley via Leaky Cauldron and Platform 9 3/4) can't be the only ones in this particular magical world. I'm also thinking of Dave's area of expertise... OK, I promise the odd questions will end one day soon. The trip to England this year is starting to look more and more attractive. ;) --Ebony From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 12 03:43:04 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (pennylin at swbell.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:43:04 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93a6up+oo8e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93lug8+fmap@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9048 Hi everyone -- I'm back & going to try & work through some of the messages. I don't have the time to read through & see what's already been said about the topics I'll respond to .... apologies in advance. I'm leaving town again on Sat morning for a few days & want to "catch up" to some extent before then. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Demelza " wrote: > In fact, Percy seems to distance himself from his siblings and only joins them to share in their accomplishments and not to support them during their failures. For example, Percy was bursting with pride that Ron beat McGonagall's chessmen. But did he try to cheer up Ginny during CoS? No. Fred and George saw Ginny was upset. Their remedy of jumping from behind corners was not helpful but they at least recognized their sister was troubled and they did try (in their twisted way) to cheer her up. In fact, Percy ascribes Ginny's mental state as being upset with him and therefore it was nothing to worry about. Don't have my books in front of me at the moment (and am too lazy at the moment to retrieve them), but wasn't Percy described as "apopletic with rage" at the twins' antics regarding Ginny? Wasn't he the one who was very worried about her and got her to drink some sort of potion? My remembrance is that Percy was quite protective of Ginny in CoS in particular. > > In SS/PS, the Twins tell Percy that he must not sit with the other > Prefects during Christmas Dinner because Christmas was family time. > Why would the Twins go out of their way to tell Percy that? They > didn't tell Ron to sit with them during Christmas Dinner; they > assumed he would. Obviously, Fred and George feel the distance between Percy and the rest. Yeah, but they obviously *wanted* him to sit with them. If they didn't care, they would have just let him sit with the prefects if he was so inclined. > PERCY and MOLLY > Molly realizes that the Twins are delivering an accurate portrayal > and > she admonishes them. Molly knows that Percy is pretentious but > defends > him because she knows that no one else will. Hmm .... I don't know that she defends him "because no one else will." I think it's more that she sees alot of herself in Percy, and they have a special bond as a result. I don't think she sees him as pretentious or bossy though .... not unless she recognizes that she herself has those very same traits to some extent. She's bossy & a stickler for rules. Have to step in & defend Percy somewhat. I maintain that Percy will come through in the end. We've had clues of that in each book. I don't think Ron or the twins give Percy enough credit -- they all sell him a bit short IMO. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 12 04:17:37 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (pennylin at swbell.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:17:37 -0000 Subject: Texans for Harry Potter In-Reply-To: <3A5E6B6E.4397113A@texas.net> Message-ID: <93m0h1+vg7s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9049 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Stephanie Becvar wrote: > > > Well here is # 2, but I live north of houston....so we are prob no where > > close ;) Dang this 8 hour side to side humungous state > > Atchally, if you're anywhere near The Woodlands, it's four hours (five if you > let the kids go to the bathroom). I'm between San Antonio and Floresville. > > --Amanda Okay, I'm *so* shocked that you could forget one of your listmoms is a Texan! Houston is home for me (having spent time in Odessa, Lubbock & Austin before moving here 10 yrs ago). Penny From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Jan 12 04:26:48 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:26:48 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--dialects, was pronunciation References: <93kei9+b5m3@eGroups.com> <002b01c07c11$dae6f030$4cdafea9@EAGLE> <3A5E6E8E.B4B4670C@texas.net> Message-ID: <013301c07c4f$e34a6ca0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9050 > > Forks and Fawkes are homophones, at least in my dialect (Australian). Would > > you pronounce them differently? > > I did a dialect study of east Texas for my honors paper in English, because > dialect maps persistently place it in the Southern dialect, which is r-less > (meaning the /r/ is dropped when it occurs in certain placements, like a > British or Australian person [which, by the way, most Texans cannot distinguish > betwixt]). I find that amusing. Obviously I can distinguish British from Australian, as well as a few different styles of each. As an aside I can distinguish some different American accents, though nowhere near the level that some can. (Down to the state or city sometimes.) >No part of Texas is r-less, at least anymore--the Southern dialect > is shrinking. But my grandmother was from east Texas, and *was* r-less, and I > remember as a child begging her to say such things as "sugar" and "pepper" and > "butter" because it sounded like /shugah/ and /peppah/ and /buttah/, which was > endlessly amusing to us. She would have found "forks" and "fawkes" to be > homophones, as well. I pronounce "sugar", "pepper" and "butter" as /shooga/ (oo as in look) and /peppa/ and /butta/. Similar except that the /ah/ implies a long sound whereas I would use a short one. > The voiced /r/ sounds a lot like the "rrrrrr" noise you make when you're > pretending to growl, hunting your kids. [I'm sure you can actually produce the > noise, unlike the Irish with /th/, but I can't find you an example, sorry--I > cannot, sitting here with no books in front of me, think of a word with the > appropriate phoneme in the Australian dialect.] Yes, I can easily imitate that - /shoogerr/... it just isn't my natural pronunciation. > The /o/ in "forks" is much closer to a long /o/ than the "aw" in Fawkes, which > is more the /ah/ of enlightenment, deepened a bit by the /w/--very much like > the "awww" in response to a cute kid or puppy or such. Suffice it to say that > in the American Midland dialect, which most of us speak some variant of, the > two words do sound very different. Saying 'forks' with a long /o/ would almost sound like 'folks' -- except that you voice the /r/, of course. Is that right? > Amanda, damn proud of her "y'all" and "fixin' to," thank you very much What does "fixin' to" mean? Simon. From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 12 04:32:25 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (pennylin at swbell.net) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 04:32:25 -0000 Subject: Belated Birthday Wishes to Carole; Fanfic; Peg Kerr's book (some OT) Message-ID: <93m1cp+p609@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9051 Hi everyone -- Thanks to Voicelady for reminding us of Carole's birthday! Happy birthday to Carole!!! I came home to lots of wonderful fanfic additions & just wanted to reiterate all the praise that has been heaped on the fics of Ebony (AngieJ), Cassie (DS10 came out on Sunday), John Walton (Crazy Ivan) & Jim Ferer(Dadgrid). These are all so wonderful! Like Voicelady, I absolutely cannot enthuse enough over Ebony's fic -- no matter which "ship" it eventually ends up as, I guarantee you'll enjoy the read! And, I'm enjoying Kathy's Hermione POV series -- mind you, it's motivating me to write my own Hermione POV (which would differ *significantly* from Kathy's take on things), but I *am* enjoying it. We have some real talent on this group. Good thing too since no Book 5 until 2002 sometime. And, as for *real* talent on this group, I must add that I *finally* got a chance to read Peg's 2nd novel "Wild Swans" (thanks to Carole for my Xmas present!). I cannot say enough good things about this novel either -- it's truly a masterpiece. Should be required reading for all our members. I highly recommend that you all read it post haste. Penny From particle at urbanet.ch Thu Jan 11 21:22:33 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:22:33 +0100 Subject: [Very OT] Re: Books References: <20010111183313.9602.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com> <02d901c07bff$410b2420$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> <3A5E1198.A4B6B3F3@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A5E2419.407A8964@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9052 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Unless this was written recently, I've read it. I was a bit young for it; it was > years later that I realized that a physical relationship had been strongly > implied between the dog and the daughter (nothing graphic at all, you guys)--I > was not yet aware enough to catch the implication. And as I recall, it was a bit > preachy, and a downer, sort of like Flowers for Algernon. Now that I've learned > to Appreciate Literature, I'd probably like it. What I coincidence, I just borrowed Flowers for Algernon from my library this morning. Can't give an opnion on it as I'm only partway through, but it's pretty good. Maybe I'll see if I can find Dogsbody or Sirius. ~Firebolt From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 12 05:06:04 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:06:04 -0600 Subject: Salon Article re: Wand Order in GoF Message-ID: <3A5E90BC.9B656BDE@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9053 Hi -- Many of you will doubtless be interested in the following article regarding the "mistake" in the wand order sequence in GoF and its subsequent "correction." Our group is featured prominently (thanks to Brian for putting me in touch with the author). I am quoted, as are Brian & Neil. I wonder if there will be an "official" response on this? Very interesting that Scholastic refused to comment! http://www.salon.com/books/log/2001/01/12/potterfix/index.html Penny From rcridley2 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 05:31:22 2001 From: rcridley2 at yahoo.com (rcridley2 at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:31:22 -0000 Subject: Another question? Message-ID: <93m4ra+qm5k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9054 Hi all I went to Fanfiction.net and found "Paradigm of Uncertainty". I started reading it last night, (GREAT story, so far!!), but had to stop at Chap 4. Tonight, I went back to ff.net (see how quickly I learn? LOL), but for whatever reason, I couldn't pull up the story again. I tried to search for it by Title and by Author, but I kept getting error messages. Umm... does anyone know what I did wrong? Is this story anywhere else on the net? Or could the author send it to me directly? I really want to finish it!! Anyway, thanks for all the help! Rachel From dherreid at colortechnology.com Fri Jan 12 05:47:57 2001 From: dherreid at colortechnology.com (dherreid at colortechnology.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:47:57 -0000 Subject: Two questions.. Message-ID: <93m5qd+gcrj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9055 Hi to everyone! I keep musing over two incidents in the GoF: Why, do you suppose, was Voldemorte nervous and afraid of the smokey echoes walking around him during the priori incantatem incident? Although he might have forgotten what to expect (or infact never knew Harry had the same wand core), he surely would have been able to recognize what was happening just as Sirius guessed it and Dumbledore confirmed it in Moody's office. And- Why was Snape so startled when Harry told Cornelius Fudge that Lucius Malfoy was a death eater? I know the death eaters didn't always know one another as such, but clearly Snape would have known of Malfoy, wouldn't he? From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Jan 12 05:55:46 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 05:55:46 -0000 Subject: Another question? In-Reply-To: <93m4ra+qm5k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93m692+10tjn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9056 Lori's stories are here: http://www.egroups.com/files/ParadigmOfUncertainty/ PoU itself is here: http://www.egroups.com/files/ParadigmOfUncertainty/The+Paradigm+of+Unc ertainty/ FF.net is having problems; it's nothing to do with Lori specifically. Cassandra --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, rcridley2 at y... wrote: > Hi all > > I went to Fanfiction.net and found "Paradigm of Uncertainty". I > started reading it last night, (GREAT story, so far!!), but had to > stop at Chap 4. > > Tonight, I went back to ff.net (see how quickly I learn? LOL), but > for whatever reason, I couldn't pull up the story again. I tried to > search for it by Title and by Author, but I kept getting error > messages. Umm... does anyone know what I did wrong? Is this story > anywhere else on the net? Or could the author send it to me > directly? I really want to finish it!! > > Anyway, thanks for all the help! > > > Rachel From SHENmagic at aol.com Fri Jan 12 06:19:59 2001 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:19:59 EST Subject: Worldwide HP4GU parties Message-ID: <3b.ef8d61f.278ffc0f@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9057 >Subject: Re: Worldwide HP4GU parties (was re: tom riddle's diary) >For us poor folk in Texas--How many of us are there, anyway? How big would > >*our* regional meeting be? I can bring cupcakes.... > >--Amanda, South Texas Well, I live in Southern California, but my work takes me places: Dallas, Kansas City, Hamburg and Freiburg, in Germany last year. London! This year, probably, June. Anyway, I can bake pumpkin-oatmeal cookies ( just did- and my neighbors and clients liked them). Maybe I can guest at some of the regionals? --Aylihael ? We are the ones who chase pixies, Run with the unicorns, Dance with the faeries, Sing with the sirens, Soar with the phoenixes, And swim with the mermaids. We are the ones who believe in the Unbelievable. We are the ones who dare to dream.? ~author unknown From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 11:00:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:00:13 -0000 Subject: Shipper Webpage Buttons (OT) In-Reply-To: <93ls9r+n4i5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93mo3t+66k8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9058 > And on the slash page, I laughed over "the other R/H". My favorite slogan: "No evidence against it" (Remus/Sirius). Thanks for the laugh, Ebony! Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 11:29:53 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:29:53 -0000 Subject: Two questions.. In-Reply-To: <93m5qd+gcrj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93mprh+onjg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9060 > Why, do you suppose, was Voldemorte nervous and afraid of the smokey > echoes walking around him during the priori incantatem incident? > Although he might have forgotten what to expect (or infact never knew > Harry had the same wand core), he surely would have been able to > recognize what was happening just as Sirius guessed it and Dumbledore > confirmed it in Moody's office. Hmmm...I have a few thoughts on this. One is that even the way Sirius refers to Priori Incantatem suggests that it's something an advanced wizard might have heard of but never seen or perhaps really believed in--almost legendary in quality. After all, how often has it happened that two wizards with "brother" wands duelled? Another is that I do think only Harry, Dumbledore, Ollivander and possibly Hagrid know about the relationship between the wands. Harry hasn't told anyone, Dumbledore certainly wouldn't, and Ollivander wouldn't exactly advertise it in the Daily Prophet. (Hagrid, on the other hand, would've told the whole world if he'd had enough to drink, but anyway...) Why would it ever occur to Voldemort that Harry's wand was related to his? Mostly, though, I think he is nervous because he has worked incredibly hard to bring this moment about--all that trouble and risk to get Harry Potter to this graveyard, when he could've used any witch or wizard to resurrect himself--and against all odds the kid is actually doing something powerful and unexpected against him. V has staked everything on the belief that "Harry Potter escaped me by a lucky chance." And 20 seconds earlier, he'd had Harry cowering behind a tombstone--all he had to do was hit him with Avada Kedavra and his whole 13-year nightmare would be over. But with a simple disarming charm Harry has unwittingly created this very weird situation in which V can't even use his wand. And on top of it, he's proved powerful enough to force the beads back to Voldemort's wand. All bets are suddenly off. One more thing--even someone as conscienceless and evil as Voldemort has to be just a bit freaked out by seeing his victims reappear before his eyes. That has to be the mass murderer's worst nightmare. (Hello, Macbeth.) > Why was Snape so startled when Harry told Cornelius Fudge that Lucius > Malfoy was a death eater? I know the death eaters didn't always know > one another as such, but clearly Snape would have known of Malfoy, > wouldn't he? Interesting question. I interpreted his "sudden movement" as being not surprise about the particular name, but an uncontrollable jump at actually having Death Eaters named at all. A lot of the secrecy seems to have been broken (I'm thinking of all those DEs who came to the Ministry and said they'd been Imperius'd, including Malfoy--it was obviously known that they were in V's pocket or why would they say this?) but there is still that sense that this is a secret society of the most dangerous kind and the chief rule is never, never tell another member's name. Snape is no longer loyal to V (we think . . .) but when Harry begins to name the entire circle, it must awaken the remnants of that fear of exposure. Even, perhaps, fear that Harry will expose *him* as a former DE? Even though Fudge presumably knows that SS was a DE and then spy? When he showed his mark to Fudge a bit later, I interpreted it as a very brave moment of admitting his past publicly. His past may be an open secret but it still takes guts to say, "look, I know what I'm talking about, I was one of Them and still have the mark." He showed it as a last ditch attempt to get Fudge to believe what Harry and Dumbledore were saying. I found it very moving--Snape baring his soul to support Harry, of all people. Sorry, it's 6 a.m. and I'm a bit fuzzy...hope that was clear. Amy Z From rainbowbright_au at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 13:50:44 2001 From: rainbowbright_au at hotmail.com (Rainbows ) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 13:50:44 -0000 Subject: Essays on Feminism in Harry Potter Message-ID: <93n23k+rbj3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9062 Hi :) I'm preparing for an essay that I'm going to write on feminism in HP, taking the side that while some parts of the book may be regarded as sexist, on the whole, it is pro female/feminism. I have read some of the archived posts on this issue however, due to the nature of the way that the Egroups archive is set up, this is hard work and often frustrating. Thus, I am asking for your help. If you know any essays/thoughts/writings on the internet that regard feminism and HP, whether it be from either side, I would appreciate it very much if you could post the URL or alternatively, email it to me at rainbowbright_au at hotmail.com Also, if anyone here has any thoughts, interpretations, analysations [lol, is there such a word?] that you wouldn't mind sharing, please send/post them to. :) Thank you! ~ Rainbows http://rainbows.complife.net/ From NelsonA at bayltd.com Fri Jan 12 13:51:46 2001 From: NelsonA at bayltd.com (Nelson, Allen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 07:51:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter Message-ID: <2140D17A1B76D411B611004033D33BA91546A6@BAYMAIL> No: HPFGUIDX 9063 I am down near Corpus Christi, Not too far from you. An easy hour and a half. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [mailto:editor at texas.net] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 8:25 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter Star wrote: > For instance, there's > > several regular posters who live in SE Michigan... lots in the London > > area... others in Texas... others in Australia, > > Texas? Who's in Texas? I recently moved to Texas and it woul dbe neat to meat other HP fans here hopefully not on the entire opposite side of the state that is. So far, Ryan, Allen, me, and a few others whose names escape me after a day of housecleaning and bathing kids. Ryan's in Austin, and Allen and I are both South Texas (which still covers a load of territory). Where are you? --Amanda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 05:39:39 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:39:39 -0600 Subject: HPforGU Chat on Sunday References: Message-ID: <000501c07cab$33facc20$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9064 I don't think I will be able to make it to club this Sunday either! Any volunteers to save the chat? ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon" To: "Rita Winston" ; "Denise Rohleder" Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: HPforGU Chat on Sunday > Hello > > I thought I would put in a little bit of advance notice and say that it is > fairly likely that I am going to be late into the chat on Sunday. It seems > likely that I will have a meeting starting at 7:30 pm (I usually get into > the chat around this time) and will not have had chance to have had dinner > before this - meaning that it will be even longer before I get there! :( > > The meeting is not definite yet - but I can see it happening, or something > similar being on at the same time to replace. Oh well - such is life when > term starts and I am actually expected to do something. > > Simon From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 12 14:54:29 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:54:29 -0600 Subject: Birthday Wishes to Heidi; Texans for HP (OT) Message-ID: <3A5F1AA5.A1005DF6@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9065 Hi everyone -- Today is Heidi's birthday so feel free to chime in with birthday wishes for her! Happy Birthday Heidi! I noticed one of the quoted sections from a Texans for HP message today that stated it was 8 hrs from side to side in Texas. I must disagree! Even with 70 mph speed limit, I don't think you could possibly drive from Houston to El Paso in less than 12 hrs. It's close to 800 miles! It's also over 800 miles north to south. Penny From NelsonA at bayltd.com Fri Jan 12 15:13:42 2001 From: NelsonA at bayltd.com (Nelson, Allen) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:13:42 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Birthday Wishes to Heidi; Texans for HP (OT) Message-ID: <2140D17A1B76D411B611004033D33BA91546D4@BAYMAIL> No: HPFGUIDX 9066 It is true that it is about 800 miles. But nobody drives 70. Its more like 80 to 90. Allen -----Original Message----- From: Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer [mailto:pennylin at swbell.net] Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 8:54 AM To: HPforGrownups Subject: [HPforGrownups] Birthday Wishes to Heidi; Texans for HP (OT) Hi everyone -- Today is Heidi's birthday so feel free to chime in with birthday wishes for her! Happy Birthday Heidi! I noticed one of the quoted sections from a Texans for HP message today that stated it was 8 hrs from side to side in Texas. I must disagree! Even with 70 mph speed limit, I don't think you could possibly drive from Houston to El Paso in less than 12 hrs. It's close to 800 miles! It's also over 800 miles north to south. Penny To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 12 15:16:15 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady at mymailstation.com) Date: 12 Jan 2001 07:16:15 -0800 Subject: Happy Birthday, Heidi! Message-ID: <20010112151615.13978.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9067 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 15:32:09 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:32:09 -0000 Subject: Essays on Feminism in Harry Potter In-Reply-To: <93n23k+rbj3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93n81p+acb7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9068 > Thus, I am asking for your help. If you know any > essays/thoughts/writings on the internet that regard feminism and HP, > whether it be from either side, I would appreciate it very much if > you could post the URL or alternatively, email it to me at > rainbowbright_au at h... There's an article called "Harry Potter's Girl Trouble" by a woman who likes them books but nevertheless thinks they're somewhat sexist. Her argument has some merit, IMO, but suffers from being written before she'd read PoA or GoF. I don't know the author or the URL (though I think it was in Salon), but a search should turn it up. Post your essay when it's done! Amy Z -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Ha, ha, ha," said Hermione sarcastically. "Goblins don't need protection. Haven't you been listening to what Professor Binns has been telling us about goblin rebellions?" "No," said Harry and Ron together. --HP and the Goblet of Fire -------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 15:34:23 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:34:23 -0000 Subject: Happy Birthday, Heidi! (nt) Message-ID: <93n85v+acpb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9069 From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Fri Jan 12 16:05:08 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 08:05:08 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Birthday Wishes to Heidi; Texans for HP (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9070 ** Hi everyone -- ** ** Today is Heidi's birthday so feel free to chime in with ** birthday wishes ** for her! Happy Birthday Heidi! Happy Birthday Heidi, and a belated wish to Carole as well! Mer From karob_7 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 16:15:06 2001 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (karob_7 at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:15:06 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <013301c07c4f$e34a6ca0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93naia+u272@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9071 > Amanda, damn proud of her "y'all" and "fixin' to," thank you very > much > > What does "fixin' to" mean? > > Simon. "Fixin' to" means "about to" or "going to" - as in, "I'm fixin' to tell y'all a story." ;) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 17:25:47 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:25:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Birthday Wishes to Heid Chime chime chime chime! References: Message-ID: <004601c07cbc$b45c0800$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9072 Harry Birthday! ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Meredith Wilson To: 'HPforGrownups at egroups.com' Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Birthday Wishes to Heidi; Texans for HP (OT) ** Hi everyone -- ** ** Today is Heidi's birthday so feel free to chime in with ** birthday wishes ** for her! Happy Birthday Heidi! Happy Birthday Heidi, and a belated wish to Carole as well! Mer eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Jan 12 16:49:49 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:49:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9073 In a message dated 1/11/2001 10:05:47 PM Central Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: > > Texas? Who's in Texas? I recently moved to Texas and it woul dbe neat to > meat other HP fans here hopefully not on the entire opposite side of the > state that is. > > So far, Ryan, Allen, me, and a few others whose names escape me after a day > of housecleaning and bathing kids. Ryan's in Austin, and Allen and I are > both South > Texas (which still covers a load of territory). Where are you? > > And I'm in Dallas. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tiki317 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 17:10:20 2001 From: tiki317 at hotmail.com (Lindsey Cook) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:10:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9074 ----- Original Message ----- From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:57 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter In a message dated 1/11/2001 10:05:47 PM Central Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: > > Texas? Who's in Texas? I recently moved to Texas and it woul dbe neat to > meat other HP fans here hopefully not on the entire opposite side of the > state that is. > > So far, Ryan, Allen, me, and a few others whose names escape me after a day > of housecleaning and bathing kids. Ryan's in Austin, and Allen and I are > both South > Texas (which still covers a load of territory). Where are you? > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group, but I've been lurking a while. I thought I'd chip in though and mention that this Harry Potter fan is from Arlington, but I'm studying in Lubbock right now. Daphne
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 12 17:12:13 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:12:13 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Howabout a Swiss Bash? References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <019c01c07cbc$d17d0060$232c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9075 > Say, now that's quite an idea. Er, I don't suppose there are any other > Swiss--or even German or northern Italian--HP fans about the club? Yes, I'm from southern Germany (and I hate the comment "Well, Franconians are people, too, right?" Just what have those guys against us? bwaahahaaa), and a meeting would be great. Maybe with some other Fans from our corner of the world? > Which reminds me: I'd really like to get a feel for the German language HP > community. Are there any insiders out there? Try "Sprechender Hut" at e-groups. Shortly after I joined in December there was quite a fight and the Moderator handed her job over to another person, so it's still a bit quiet but it's really nice and friendly now. Anyway, the more we are, the better it is . And we can sure get discussions going if only someone starts with something interesting, so new input is always great! ~ Dinah ~ (now waiting for the goat stampede echoing through Germany's quiet HP universe) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 12 17:23:48 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:23:48 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy Birthday, Heidi! References: <20010112151615.13978.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <019e01c07cbc$d43346c0$232c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9076 Happy Birthday Heidi and may all your wishes come true. And may all your birthday candles not burn your hair or set the house on fire. ~ Dinah ~ (somehow I haven't understood the concept of "Always look on the bright side of life") ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 12 17:20:45 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:20:45 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HPforGU Chat on Sunday References: <000501c07cab$33facc20$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <019d01c07cbc$d2dbf420$232c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9077 > I don't think I will be able to make it to club this Sunday either! Any > volunteers to save the chat? > ************************************************************ > ~~Dee~~ Maybe someone could mail me this information offlist: Is the chat in the yahoo club? I've never joined any of those, so do I just have to go to the clubsite and join? B/c I'd really love to chat with y'all if I can make it. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 12 17:33:03 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:33:03 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipper Webpage Buttons (OT) References: <93ls9r+n4i5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01b501c07cbd$ba16e660$232c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9078 I just love those! Thanks for posting the link. Although I had already thought of a Colin/Ginny pairing I just think they wouldn't get to see much of Harry because he'd be running screaming out of the room. He'd rather walk into a Sauna filled with ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 12 17:34:25 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:34:25 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipper Webpage Buttons (OT) Message-ID: <01bf01c07cbd$e8ad2b60$232c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9079 Get me a brain? Someone, please? hit the wrong button, sorry. Harry'd rather walk into a Sauna filled with Death Eaters than visit Ginny and Colin Creevey. ~ Dinah ~ From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 12 17:53:57 2001 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 17:53:57 -0000 Subject: Almost irresolvable time problem (Weasleys) In-Reply-To: <93kgoi+tp5t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ngbl+e648@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9080 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aiz24 at h... wrote: >I've looked forward to coming to Hogwarts >ever since B-Bill I don't see the problem. She does not say ever since Bill FIRST went, it's ever since I first remember him going. She could be talking about his 7'th year for all we know. From foxmoth at qnet.com Fri Jan 12 18:17:59 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:17:59 -0000 Subject: Heidi's Birthday (OT) Message-ID: <93nhon+4qcl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9081 (sings) Happy birthday to you Happy birthday to you Happy birthday, dear Heidi Happy birthday to you. (and many more!) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 19:22:04 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:22:04 -0000 Subject: FW: flibbertigibbet: Dictionary.com Word of the Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93nlgs+rn17@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9082 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > This seemed like such a JKR-type word that I just HAD to send it to the list > :) Can you not see a character (owl, perhaps?) named Flibbertigibbet? Am I imagining it, or wasn't flibbertigibbet a password to the Gryf's common room at one point? I could swear... Wish I had the books handy. That'd be a fun list to compile, all the known passwords - I wonder if we'd find that there's some hidden clue or something... Now I REALLY wish I had the books! -kimberly From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Jan 11 21:22:32 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 15:22:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9083 For His First name, i always thought there was a dark foreboding...I figured i would put this(long in the works) thoery out now, as it applies. I once had a dog my dad named lucifer, and i went to a catholic school(ha i am lutheran) for kindergarten, and every time i would talk about my dog, the sisters would freak, and thats how i found out about the devil being lucifer etc. etc. etc. Well, the VERY first time i read lucius malfoy's name, i thought of that, and the mal foi(i am a french student) Ok, now that the background is done, the theory, which also answers one of your questions(keep in mind i think draco will turn out ok in the end): I know thios may seem zany, but i always kind of thought Vold. would get his power, but would actually die die, before book 7...or at least in the beginning of that book. THEN, LUCIUS takes over things rather, and he kills Sirius/hermione/ron/hagrid/dumbledore...SOMEBODY close to Harry, and not only does this make Draco realize what a nutter his father is, but Makes Harry go bezerk and end the powers of evil forever by killing him...... i know this is a VERY far-fetched theory, but when you have a 1.5 hour anatomy class and all she is doing is pointing to bones, you have to think of SOMETHING) Stephanie who also believes JKR is a REAL witch who is in VERY big trouble with the Ministry of Magic, and has been banned ot the muggle world bc her defense that she was trying to trick all of us muggles into thinking it was DEF. fantasy failed >******************** >Character Summary: Lucius Malfoy aka 'Slimeball' > >Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, Lux) which >would seem, if intended, to be ironic > >Malfoy - I like the french Mal foi - 'bad faith' derivation though I think >there are other interpretations about. > >Age: hmm, older than the Marauders we suspect, though I do not think there >is >any hard evidence to support this. I don't think (? Corrections anyone?) he >mentioned in discussions that cover Marauders/Severus' school days which >suggest that he is not a contemporary. Lucius' involvement (up to his neck) >with Voldemort suggests to me he is older than MMWP/Severus. > >Description: strongly resembles his son (or the other way around) "the same >pale, pointed face and identical cold grey eyes". > >'On screen' time: Less than I imagined. We hear of him in PS when Draco >indicates that he intends to 'bully' his father into buying him a broom, >despite the prohibition on first years having brooms (p. 60, all refs >brit/aust >eds). > >Lucius' first proper appearance is in CoS (p43) where he arrives in Mr >Borgin's >shop to sell what appears to be prohibited Dark items. A few pages later he >distributes Tom Riddle's diary to Ginny Wesley, under cover of a physical >fight >with Arthur Wesley. > >Scattered throughout CoS as school governor, and through PoA as he >attempted to >have Buckbeak murdered in retribution for Draco's stupidity (not that I am >taking sides ), less in GoF, revealed to be a Death Eater (GoF, p564) > >Job: Apart from being an all round bad guy (time consuming?) he doesn't >appear >to have one. For a time he was a governor on the Hogwarts Board but this >went >by the way at the end of CoS. Has connections to the Committee for the >Disposal >of Dangerous Creatures (PoA, p162). Rich family, doesn't appear to need to >work. OTHO does appear to value work, or, more correctly the acquisition of >wealth and power - but not through 'thieving and plundering' (CoS, p. 44) > >Personality: Horrid > >What? you want more? Very horrid. > >Special Abilities: being slimy, convincing people that he is a good decent >Wizard, or at least not a Death Eater (ie Hagrid says Lucius claimed to be >acting under Imperius curse after Voldemort's fall - don't have ref. >Believe >it's PS p60 something. Anyone?) Good at judging the political direction of >the >wind and win influence. Confident in his ability to grease palms (ie >Quidditch >box at the world cup - p.92) > >Obsessions: Himself, Money, Power, Influence > >Appears to be concerned with the 'purity' of wizard blood, though whether >he >attempts justify his concern in terms of the betterment of the general >wizarding community or just ordinary self interest is not clear. > >Good Qualities - None (I haven't even come across any fan-fiction writers >who >have been able to invent any - maybe I'm not widely enough read ) > >Bad Qualities - Too many to name > >Relationships - Only if he must and only if he's on top. > >Married to Narcissa. I think that Cassie's explanation for this marriage is >the >most plausible (an Imperius curse IIRC). Although with a name like Narcissa >maybe she was more willing that we might want to believe. > >Father to Draco - Seems like an abusive, absent kind of parent - parents >Draco >like a toy - come here, now I'm over you, go away, expects Draco to carry >out >his dream, expects Draco to be his puppet. Draco (IMO) has fully identified >with his abuser and the behaviour he shows is indicative of the treatment >he >receives at home (all this is based on CoS and a few other bits and >pieces). > >Evil overlord to Dobby (until the end of CoS) and assorted other (assumed) >bonded servants/slaves. > >Fate - Death is too good for him, but he is such a politician I fancy he >will >play both sides of the field and wind up alive at the end of book 7. > >************** >Questions: > >1. Does Lucius have any good qualities? > >2. What does Lucius want? - to be Voldemort's lieutenant or to be >Voldemort? > >3. Will he live beyond the end of Book 7? > >4. What does Lucius do with his days? Surely plotting to overthrow the >world as >we know it can only fill in so much time. Does he like a good game of >backgammon? > >5. Did Snape and Malfoy ever have a fling? - Is Draco their love child? Who >was >on top? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Fri Jan 12 20:11:09 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:11:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: FW: flibbertigibbet: Dictionary.com Word of the Day References: <93nlgs+rn17@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001e01c07cd4$3a12de80$4b46d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9084 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimberly " > > Am I imagining it, or wasn't flibbertigibbet a password to the Gryf's > common room at one point? I could swear... Wish I had the books > handy. That'd be a fun list to compile, all the known passwords - I > wonder if we'd find that there's some hidden clue or something... > Now I REALLY wish I had the books! > -kimberly It was in PoA...I just heard that part on the tapes yesterday. carole From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 12 21:04:08 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:04:08 -0000 Subject: Chat Sessions - when and where they happen (admin) Message-ID: <014401c07cdb$34e55260$1b3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9085 A few people have asked about our weekly chat sessions, so here are the details: - We still use the chatroom at our old Yahoo home. In order to use it, you will need to register with Yahoo and join Harry Potter for Grown Ups there, at the following address: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups - The scheduled chat is on Sundays and the session usually gets going around 20.00 GMT, winding up at around 23.00 GMT (check your time zones relative to GMT!) - Dee has set up a separate eGroup for storing the text of the chat sessions (http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownupsChatScripts/). One of the regulars - usually Dee, Simon or Catlady - will save the chat and throw up an occasional disclaimer telling you that they are doing this. That's about it... see you there! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 12 22:00:36 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:00:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") References: <93naia+u272@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5F7E83.7C831E84@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9086 karob_7 at yahoo.com wrote: > > What does "fixin' to" mean? > > > > Simon. > > "Fixin' to" means "about to" or "going to" - as in, "I'm fixin' to > tell y'all a story." ;) Yup. The usage "fixin' to" and the double modal (might ought, might should) are the only dialect usages on the increase, by the way. Other Texas peculiarities are dying out. --Amanda, font of useless trivia (is that redundant?) From hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com Fri Jan 12 22:19:54 2001 From: hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com (Sara Metz) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 16:19:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter Message-ID: <20010112.161955.-362345.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9087 Well, I'm new to the list. However, I live in Kingwood, TX. Yeah, yeah, make all the jokes about the queens of robbery. I can't help having gone to school with them. Sara On Fri, 12 Jan 2001 11:10:20 -0600 "Lindsey Cook" writes: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com > Sent: Friday, January 12, 2001 10:57 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter > > > In a message dated 1/11/2001 10:05:47 PM Central Standard Time, > editor at texas.net writes: > > > > > Texas? Who's in Texas? I recently moved to Texas and it woul dbe > neat to > > meat other HP fans here hopefully not on the entire opposite side > of the > > state that is. > > > > So far, Ryan, Allen, me, and a few others whose names escape me > after a day > > of housecleaning and bathing kids. Ryan's in Austin, and Allen and > I are > > both South > > Texas (which still covers a load of territory). Where are you? > > > > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group, but I've been lurking a > while. I thought I'd chip in though and mention that this Harry > Potter fan is from Arlington, but I'm studying in Lubbock right now. > Daphne
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> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Jan 12 23:16:31 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:16:31 -0800 Subject: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <93ngbl+e648@eGroups.com> References: <93kgoi+tp5t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010112145613.00bf2210@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9088 I dreamt last night that I went to the premiere of the Harry Potter movie, and the inaccuracies were horrendous. The things that I remember: -- Harry was blonde and had no glasses and no scar -- Hermione looked like a Barbie Doll -- Dumbledore was played by Brad Pitt in a Santa suit -- Quirrell had no turban -- Very long hair hid Voldy's face -- The Norbert episode was cut entirely -- Quirrell got past Fluffy using a "full-body meltdown" curse (Hear the Time-Warner moguls say, "Hey, we gotta have *some* blood and guts!") -- Sirius and Lupin showed up at the end and give Harry the Filebolt a little early I think this dream was provoked by the rumors on the Harry Potter newsgroup that Hagrid's house will be made of (fire-proof) stone and that the trophy room features a plaque for Special Services to the School awarded to a T. M. Riddell. But *could* the film be *this* bad?? -- Dave From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Fri Jan 12 23:12:19 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:12:19 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Could the Movie be this bad? References: <93kgoi+tp5t@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010112145613.00bf2210@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <005301c07ced$1e44e9a0$44357bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 9089 But *could* the film be *this* bad?? With Chris Columbus directing, it depends how much control WB have ceded to him. Anything is possible. Michelle From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Jan 12 23:22:07 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:22:07 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Essays on Feminism in Harry Potter References: <93n23k+rbj3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007c01c07cee$7b2a14f0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9090 > Also, if anyone here has any thoughts, interpretations, analysations > [lol, is there such a word?] that you wouldn't mind sharing, please > send/post them to. :) No, there's no word analysations. It's analyses (which is the plural of analysis). Simon. From vderark at bccs.org Fri Jan 12 23:32:16 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:32:16 -0000 Subject: Penny etc. are famous again Message-ID: <93o460+l5tt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9091 Well, it looks like we're DOUBLY famous. That Salon article just showed up on CNN.com. Here's the URL: http://www.cnn.com/2001/books/news/01/12/salon.potter/index.html Same lame links underneath, though. No HP4GU, no Harry Potter Lexicon, just the same tired old links. Oh well. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 12 23:34:32 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:34:32 -0000 Subject: Will movie be this bad and meeting other Potterholics ... In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010112145613.00bf2210@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <93o4a8+glb2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9092 Dave wrote: "I dreamt last night that I went to the premiere of the Harry Potter movie, and the inaccuracies were horrendous. The things that I remember: -- Harry was blonde and had no glasses and no scar -- Hermione looked like a Barbie Doll -- Dumbledore was played by Brad Pitt in a Santa suit -- Quirrell had no turban -- Very long hair hid Voldy's face -- The Norbert episode was cut entirely -- Quirrell got past Fluffy using a "full-body meltdown" curse (Hear the Time-Warner moguls say, "Hey, we gotta have *some* blood and guts!") -- Sirius and Lupin showed up at the end and give Harry the Firebolt a little early" This bad? Don't you mean this good!?! Siriusly though I think the movie will either be extremely good or extremely bad (and I'm inclined to say the latter). BTW, the picture I saw of Hagrid's hut did indeed show it as being stone. Anyway, no matter how bad the movie is it is garanteed a successful opening weekend (we'll all go see it once or twice just to criticize and analyze). I would love to pick it apart with someone who was just as obsessed as me. :-) Scott From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 12 23:38:04 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:38:04 -0000 Subject: pedant and chat Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9093 Simon (Biber) wrote: "No, there's no word analysations. It's analyses (which is the plural of analysis)." (borrowing an idea I have seen before - a html tag for pedantic comments) Analysation (or analyzation) is the action of analysing or analysis. Hence it is possible to pluralize this. Thus the word 'analysations', though uncommon, does exist. As always I thank the OED for the bit of information above - whether anyone else does is another matter! Neil wrote: "The scheduled chat is on Sundays and the session usually gets going around 20.00 GMT, winding up at around 23.00 GMT (check your time zones relative to GMT!)" Or continuing even later. Do not worry though - many just pop in and say hi for a few minutes. If you can make it then it would be cool to chat. We welcome all in the chat - no matter what shipper preference they have . Neil wrote: "Dee has set up a separate eGroup for storing the text of the chat sessions (http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownupsChatScripts/)" Visiting the chat eGroup allows you to view the transcripts from the last few weeks' chats. It gives an indication of the things that go on. We do try to discuss Harry Potter related stuff, but ever so often we just wonder off into silly-land! Simon From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 12 23:59:55 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 18:59:55 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Books (But Siriusly, Folks....) References: <979292619.58667@egroups.com> Message-ID: <001d01c07cf3$c3f3b600$62dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 9094 Message: 6 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:22:33 +0100 From: Firebolt Subject: [Very OT] Re: Books Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Unless this was written recently, I've read it. I was a bit young for it; it was > years later that I realized that a physical relationship had been strongly > implied between the dog and the daughter (nothing graphic at all, you guys)--I > was not yet aware enough to catch the implication. And as I recall, it was a bit > preachy, and a downer, sort of like Flowers for Algernon. Now that I've learned > to Appreciate Literature, I'd probably like it. What I coincidence, I just borrowed Flowers for Algernon from my library this morning. Can't give an opnion on it as I'm only partway through, but it's pretty good. Maybe I'll see if I can find Dogsbody or Sirius. Olaf Stapledon, the author of Sirius, is rightfully considered one of the great early masters of the sci-fi genre. His greatest novel IMO is First and Last Men, but Sirius is also very good. Here's a link that will give an excerpt from the book. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/7628/stapledon/sirius_at_cambridge.htm l - CMC From lj2d30 at gateway.net Fri Jan 12 23:58:42 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:58:42 -0000 Subject: pronunciation In-Reply-To: <93larp+84ii@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93o5ni+6hcp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9095 Simon Biber wrote: Forks and Fawkes are homophones, at least in my dialect (Australian). Would you pronounce them differently? Then Amy Z wrote: Yup. In my dialect of US English, they're quite different. For one thing, the "r" in "Forks" is voiced. For another, the "aw" in "Fawkes" is said the way you'd lean over a baby: "Awwww..." The "o" in "Forks"--well, how can I describe it to someone who pronounces vowels differently? (Linguists have a notation to deal with this but I don't know it!) It's somewhere in between that "awwww" and a long "o" as in "bone." Actually the /o/ is a long /o/, but since the /r/ immediately follows it, it is influenced by the /r/, becoming an "r-colored vowel" Okay, phonetics lecture is over. Please return to your regularly scheduled HP messages. Trina (who was going to leave this subject alone, but since I spend 7.5 hours a day working on articulation & pronounciation as a speech therapist in the US public schools, I had to allow my inner Hermione to weigh in.) From ak928 at barnard.edu Sat Jan 13 00:02:12 2001 From: ak928 at barnard.edu (Ashley Kelly) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:02:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: A Sirius Affair In-Reply-To: <014101c07ba1$0c601b30$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9096 Wow, I really like A Sirius Affair so far...but you guys are going to finish it right....I need to know how Sirius becomes the Assistant Chancellor! Great job guys! Wow, I am so glad I turned to the world of Fan Fic! ASHLEY (who has not yet gone over the edge to H/H :) ) From john at walton.to Sat Jan 13 00:10:21 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:10:21 +0000 Subject: OT: John away Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9097 This seemed to be the best place to yell "I'm going away for a week or so to visit my auntie while I have a gap in exams" without cross-pollinating lists. Folks for whom I betaread/Britproof, I should be back late next week: Thursday through Saturday sometime, I haven't decided yet. SoT 5 should be ready to be posted by the time I get back -- I'm taking my Book O'Evil Plans with me, so I'll be plotting and characterising away! Penny & other moderators: I'll choose a font for us when I get back :) Ciao for now, then. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: "Come the millennium, month 12 In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader." ======================================== From meiko00 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 13 01:25:24 2001 From: meiko00 at earthlink.net (dedorman) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 19:25:24 -0600 Subject: Intro - New Here Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9098 Hello! My name is Erin and I'm 22 years old. I live in the NW suburbs of Chicago with my husband, Doug who is 21. No children yet but we're working on it. ;) We bought the Harry Potter books all 4 at once last fall in hardcover and Doug devoured them in a week. I, on the other hand, am just now getting the chance to read them. They have been through no less than 6 readings as they've been passed from friend to friend. I am just finishing Chamber of Secrets and I am hooked. I've woken up at 5 a.m. every morning this week to get some reading in before getting up for work. I read through my lunch hour and I read when I get home at night. It has been a long time since I've read a series of novels which has entranced me so. I was at amazon.com looking at HP recommendations and came across the address for this group. I look forward to meeting you all and discussing HP with you. Erin :-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-: Erin and Doug Dorman http://home.earthlink.net/~dedorman God allows us to experience the low points of life in order to teach us lessons we could not learn in any other way. - C.S. Lewis :-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-:-: From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 01:36:22 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:36:22 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <3A5F7E83.7C831E84@texas.net> Message-ID: <93obem+tcs4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9099 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > karob_7 at y... wrote: > > Yup. The usage "fixin' to" and the double modal (might ought, might > should) are the only dialect usages on the increase, by the way. Other > Texas peculiarities are dying out. > > --Amanda, font of useless trivia (is that redundant?) Then *that* must be where I got it. I worked really hard at not picking up things like 'y'all' and 'fixin' to' when I spent 3.5 years in college in TX, but somehow I picked up 'might should'. Rats! Even worse, I say 'used to could'. It's even worse because I have a totally bland midwestern accent, so it all sounds funny. kimberly, contemplating washing my mouth out with rum punch. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Jan 13 01:41:48 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:41:48 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipper Webpage Buttons (OT) References: <01bf01c07cbd$e8ad2b60$232c07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <010601c07d01$fec7a530$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9100 I thought it was deliberate -- he'd rather walk into a sauna filled with ~ Dinah ~ :-) Simon. > Get me a brain? Someone, please? hit the wrong button, sorry. > > Harry'd rather walk into a Sauna filled with Death Eaters than visit Ginny > and Colin Creevey. > > ~ Dinah ~ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Jan 13 01:46:44 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:46:44 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat Sessions - when and where they happen (admin) References: <014401c07cdb$34e55260$1b3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <011601c07d02$af48e310$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9101 > - The scheduled chat is on Sundays and the session usually gets going > around 20.00 GMT, winding up at around 23.00 GMT (check your > time zones relative to GMT!) 7 - 10 am Monday morning for me -- wonderful timing :-) Simon. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sat Jan 13 01:50:11 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:50:11 -0000 Subject: Wizard Wear Message-ID: <93oc8j+c4q0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9102 This has been bothering me since I read GoF. Do Molly and Arthur wear Muggle-ish clothes or Wizard clothing (robes and hats) when they go to Kings Crossing? In the first 3 books I got the impression that they wore styles that would be acceptable in the Muggle world. However, in GoF, Arthur seems as though he never dresses in Muggle-wear. :-) Milz From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 02:10:55 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:10:55 -0000 Subject: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010112145613.00bf2210@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <93odff+ath8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9103 It sound like you imagined DISNEY had done it. Let's see: One of the Backstreet Boys for Harry.. Britney Spears for Hermione (that's what was probably on your mind with the Barbie Doll. Pre-Engorgement charm or post?) John Goodman for Hagrid.. It's possible to make an even worse movie than the one they're probably making now. Be afraid. Be very afraid. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > I dreamt last night that I went to the premiere of the Harry Potter > movie, and the inaccuracies were horrendous. The things that I > remember: > > -- Harry was blonde and had no glasses and no scar > -- Hermione looked like a Barbie Doll > -- Dumbledore was played by Brad Pitt in a Santa suit > -- Quirrell had no turban -- Very long hair hid Voldy's face > -- The Norbert episode was cut entirely > -- Quirrell got past Fluffy using a "full-body meltdown" curse > (Hear the Time-Warner moguls say, "Hey, we gotta have > *some* blood and guts!") > -- Sirius and Lupin showed up at the end and give Harry the > Filebolt a little early > > I think this dream was provoked by the rumors on the Harry > Potter newsgroup that Hagrid's house will be made of (fire-proof) > stone and that the trophy room features a plaque for Special > Services to the School awarded to a T. M. Riddell. But > *could* the film be *this* bad?? > > > > -- Dave From fefe at fazekas.hu Sat Jan 13 02:21:32 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (Fefe ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:21:32 -0000 Subject: Muggle things in Hogwarts Message-ID: <93oe3c+2h7v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9104 Hi all ! In GoF, Chapter 28, Hermione explained why Muggle things are useless in Hogwarts: "All those substitutes for magic Muggles use - electricity, computers, and radar, and all those things - they all go haywire around Hogwarts, there's too much magic in the air. No, Rita's using magic to eavesdrop, she must be." Then, i started to think about the Muggle things they used in Hogwarts and i remembered two things. The first one was the Ford Anglia, in CoS, and it DID go wrong near Hogwarts... I don't know how much electronics are in an Anglia, but the ignition system is surely electric (at least partially) and if it goes wrong, it should be enough reason for a flying car to fall down :) The other one was Colin Creevey's camera, also in CoS: "He was clutching what looked like an ordinary Muggle camera, and the moment Harry looked at him, he went bright red." (I think this means that it WAS a Muggle camera.) Maybe J.K. forgot about this when she wrote GoF, but Colin could have also used a fully mechanical camera... I think that fully mechanical Muggle machines doesn't go wrong in Hogwarts, because i can't imagine any reason for them to do so. When i found this, i was happy because i just hate those automatic "soap-dish" cameras most people use nowadays :) I have two cameras, a German (to be correct, Eastern- German) "Praktica" and a Soviet "Zenit", both of them are quite professional, fully mechanical, only the light measurement is electronic. (Zenit is still produced in Russia, and it costs about $40 :) I'll take one of them with me when i'll visit Hogwarts :) Btw Harry's watch was surely a magical one, but then, why did it go wrong underwater ? Oh yes, it could also have been a fully mechanical Muggle watch, although i can't imagine the Dursleys buying him such an expensive thing :) Does anyone remember any other Muggle things that were used in Hogwarts ? Bye Fefe From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 13 02:49:46 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:49:46 -0000 Subject: Penny etc. are famous again In-Reply-To: <93o460+l5tt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ofoa+m1gb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9105 Steve wrote: > Well, it looks like we're DOUBLY famous. That Salon article just > showed up on CNN.com. Here's the URL: > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/books/news/01/12/salon.potter/index.html "...Which leads HPforGrownups members to wonder, according to Dorband, "Did she actually correct it, or did she just say, 'Oh jeez, we got it wrong. Go ahead and change the words'?" Neil Ward, a British member, thinks it must be the latter, because the correction in both the English and American editions is worded exactly the same; "it seems to me very unlikely that Bloomsbury and Scholastic would be able to agree on the same rewording without the author's involvement." [excerpt from Bolonik K, "Harry Potter hanky-panky", Salon Magazine, 12/01/01, posted to www.salon.com and www.cnn.com] A clarification re the above quote: That is what I said, but the implication is incorrect. I meant that JKR must have been directly involved in the rewriting in order for the two publishers to have ended up with same text (i.e. not the "latter" point all!). If she had simply said, "go ahead and change the words" they would almost certainly have edited it in different ways, IMO. Oh well! I'm still smiling at the possibility of JKR saying "Oh jeez..."! Neil From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Jan 12 10:14:22 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:14:22 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. Message-ID: <01C07D68.DC6BD8A0.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 9106 > ************** > Questions: > 2. What does Lucius want? - to be Voldemort's lieutenant or to be Voldemort? Voicelady said That's a toughie. I think he's a yes-man who wants to take all the credit and be known as the man behind the man. To get the glory without the risks? I wonder if he will be satisfied with this in the end, if he could resist playing both sides right to the end ... Storm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Jan 12 10:17:35 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:17:35 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. Message-ID: <01C07D68.DF979D20.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 9107 Dai said: "I'm not sure that the name Lucifer predates the name Lucius. Of course I could be wrong; my entire knowledge of ancient rome stems from Lindsey Davies novels." Which is more knowledge than I have Cassie said - "Lucius doesn't come from Lucifer, but if I'm not mistaken, both "Lucius" and "Lucifer" derive from the same Latin word, Lux, ... meaning light. They're not the same name, but they have similar meanings; Lucifer doesn't actually refer to Satan per se but to Satan before the fall, when he was the brightest of God's angels -- thus the appellation "bringer of light." Lucifer as an appellation for Satan IIRC, didn't even come about until the late fourth century Latin translations of the original Hebrew which referred to him as "helel ben-shadar" which translates as "shining one, son of the morning" or and which got turned into "bringer of light." It's a bit of an ironic name to begin with since apres the fall, Lucifer was no longer particularly, er, shiny. Okay wayyy more than anyone wanted to know," See I didn't know this either .... You lot have an amazing amount of information floating around in your collective heads ... storm -----Original Message----- From: Dai Evans [SMTP:dwe199 at soton.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 9:22 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, Lux) which To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sat Jan 13 02:53:06 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:53:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Obsession Quiz Message-ID: <11.e61e40d.27911d12@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9108 The Young Adult books section of about.com has a "Harry Potter Obsession Quiz" It's located at: http://yabooks.about.com/teens/yabooks/bl_potter_obsessedquiz.htm I'm 94% obsessed! Love & Light, Elizabeth ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 02:54:37 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 20:54:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Could the Movie be this bad? References: <93kgoi+tp5t@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010112145613.00bf2210@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A5FC36C.F4E9655B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9109 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > I think this dream was provoked by the rumors on the Harry > Potter newsgroup that Hagrid's house will be made of (fire-proof) > stone and that the trophy room features a plaque for Special > Services to the School awarded to a T. M. Riddell. But > *could* the film be *this* bad?? Well, that picture somebody posted a while back of Hagrid's hut, it sure looked like stone to me...a house-gnomish looking thing. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 03:01:21 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:01:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Could the Movie be this bad? References: <93odff+ath8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5FC500.71137CA3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9110 Let's get real. No one, but no one, can make a movie we'll like, in that it is authentic to the little details we love so and has all the words we know by heart and weigh and sift for shades of meaning. BUT, if JKR is allowed input, and it sounds as if she has been, the movie should retain some of the flavor and character of the book, and that is really the best one can hope for in an adaptation. Their acting slate is sterling, probably enough to hold its own against the special effects crew, themselves top of the line, so I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt. My main fear was always that the vast amount of special effects needed would turn it into a special effects vehicle. --Amanda Jim Ferer wrote: > It sound like you imagined DISNEY had done it. Let's see: One of the > Backstreet Boys for Harry.. Britney Spears for Hermione (that's what > was probably on your mind with the Barbie Doll. Pre-Engorgement charm > or post?) John Goodman for Hagrid.. It's possible to make an even > worse movie than the one they're probably making now. > > Be afraid. Be very afraid. > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook > wrote: > > I dreamt last night that I went to the premiere of the Harry Potter > > movie, and the inaccuracies were horrendous. The things that I > > remember: > > > > -- Harry was blonde and had no glasses and no scar > > -- Hermione looked like a Barbie Doll > > -- Dumbledore was played by Brad Pitt in a Santa suit > > -- Quirrell had no turban -- Very long hair hid Voldy's face > > -- The Norbert episode was cut entirely > > -- Quirrell got past Fluffy using a "full-body meltdown" curse > > (Hear the Time-Warner moguls say, "Hey, we gotta have > > *some* blood and guts!") > > -- Sirius and Lupin showed up at the end and give Harry the > > Filebolt a little early > > > > I think this dream was provoked by the rumors on the Harry > > Potter newsgroup that Hagrid's house will be made of (fire-proof) > > stone and that the trophy room features a plaque for Special > > Services to the School awarded to a T. M. Riddell. But > > *could* the film be *this* bad?? > > > > > > > > -- Dave > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 03:11:04 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:11:04 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz In-Reply-To: <11.e61e40d.27911d12@aol.com> Message-ID: <93oh08+7p0s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9111 Elizabeth recommended this quiz- http://yabooks.about.com/teens/yabooks/bl_potter_obsessedquiz.htm No one else has to bother to take this quiz. The results are simply self evident. It actually told me to join a reading group! Sorry but they are just a bit late... Scott From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 03:13:27 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:13:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter Obsession Quiz References: <11.e61e40d.27911d12@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A5FC7D7.2385BC72@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9112 mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > The Young Adult books section of about.com has a "Harry Potter Obsession > Quiz" It's located at: > > http://yabooks.about.com/teens/yabooks/bl_potter_obsessedquiz.htm > > I'm 94% obsessed! 72%. I have to reserve at least 8% per kid, I suppose (leaving only 4% for housework, job-searching, and what was that other? oh yeah, husband...) --Amanda From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 03:42:31 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:42:31 -0000 Subject: Muggle things in Hogwarts In-Reply-To: <93oe3c+2h7v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93oir7+lt3c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9113 Fefe wrote: "Hi all !" --Hallo! Hermione wrote: "All those substitutes for magic Muggles use - electricity, computers, and radar, and all those things - they all go haywire around Hogwarts, there's too much magic in the air. No, Rita's using magic to eavesdrop, she must be." "The other one was Colin Creevey's camera, also in CoS: "He was clutching what looked like an ordinary Muggle camera, and the moment Harry looked at him, he went bright red." (I think this means that it WAS a Muggle camera.) Maybe J.K. forgot about this when she wrote GoF, but Colin could have also used a fully mechanical camera... I think that fully mechanical Muggle machines don't go wrong in Hogwarts, because i can't imagine any reason for them to do so. " --I think that you must be right, despite Hermione's comments. What I mean is that Colin certainly implies he's using a muggle camera, and that it is only the potion that the pictures are developed in that makes them move. I had just assumed that the camera had a magical element but then perhaps not. Any explanations? (CoS p. 96 American Edition) "Btw Harry's watch was surely a magical one, but then, why did it go wrong underwater ? Oh yes, it could also have been a fully mechanical Muggle watch, although i can't imagine the Dursleys buying him such an expensive thing :)" I know that Harry mentions how his watch is broken at another time than the second task, but that might be after it and so the watch is broken. I can't remember. Anyway it seems that this is a regular muggle thing as we never saw Harry buy a watch in Diagon Alley though that surely doesn't mean he didn't. Gosh but I'm don't think that I'm making sense tonight. Scott From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Jan 13 03:41:56 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:41:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A Sirius Affair References: Message-ID: <003f01c07d12$c86ddb60$325bd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9114 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Kelly" > Wow, I really like A Sirius Affair so far...but you guys are going to > finish it right....I need to know how Sirius becomes the Assistant > Chancellor! Great job guys! > > Wow, I am so glad I turned to the world of Fan Fic! > > ASHLEY (who has not yet gone over the edge to H/H :) ) Thanks. Yes, we will finish it. And there may be a sequel....still thinking on that. We have 15 chapters planned at the moment. We're writing at a rate of about a chapter a month given our other responsibilities. I have 3 kids and work part time, Penny is doing other writing and preparing for her first baby...so we work on it when we get the chance. And yes, we will explain how Sirius becomes Deputy Chancellor...in fact I have that scene written, but it hasn't gotten Penny's seal yet...so it might change significantly. Thanks for the interest carole From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 03:57:36 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:57:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Muggle things in Hogwarts References: <93oir7+lt3c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5FD22F.DF3D81F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9115 Scott wrote: > --I think that you must be right, despite Hermione's comments. What > I mean is that Colin certainly implies he's using a muggle camera, > and that it is only the potion that the pictures are developed in > that makes them move. I had just assumed that the camera had a > magical element but then perhaps not. Any explanations? Explanation 1: Well, in an older, non-Instamatic type camera, the kind where you change the lenses yourself and carry around huge camera cases with lots of different lenses and filters and stuff and have genuine lens caps that you can forget to remove (instead of the modern ones that disappear like Star Trek doors) the only non-mechanical part is the teeny little battery for the light meter. I don't think batteries would necessarily be affected. So it should work just fine. AND, people who are into photography and develop their own film, which Colin does, tend to be purists about equipment and use the "real" cameras rather than the little idiot boxes. So I bet he has an old Nikon or something, like I do, rather than a Fuji technology fest, which presumably would screw up. Explanation 2: It's a Flint. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 03:59:54 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:59:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") References: <93obem+tcs4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5FD2BA.62323542@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9116 Kimberly wrote: > Then *that* must be where I got it. I worked really hard at not > picking up things like 'y'all' and 'fixin' to' when I spent 3.5 years > in college in TX, but somehow I picked up 'might should'. Rats! Even > worse, I say 'used to could'. It's even worse because I have a > totally bland midwestern accent, so it all sounds funny. Studies have found that there's a direct relationship between how happy people were/are in Texas--i.e., how much they liked living there--and the degree to which they internalized the usages. Did you have fun? Were you at the party school in San Marcos, or someplace else? If it really bugs you, you might oughta think about therapy..... --Amanda From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 13 04:08:39 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 23:08:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Could the Movie be this bad? References: <979354318.7746@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000d01c07d16$834d2f00$e4c54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 9117 > Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 15:16:31 -0800 > From: Dave Hardenbrook > Subject: Could the Movie be this bad? > > I dreamt last night that I went to the premiere of the Harry Potter > movie, and the inaccuracies were horrendous. The things that I > remember: > > -- Harry was blonde and had no glasses and no scar > -- Hermione looked like a Barbie Doll > -- Dumbledore was played by Brad Pitt in a Santa suit > -- Quirrell had no turban -- Very long hair hid Voldy's face > -- The Norbert episode was cut entirely > -- Quirrell got past Fluffy using a "full-body meltdown" curse > (Hear the Time-Warner moguls say, "Hey, we gotta have > *some* blood and guts!") > -- Sirius and Lupin showed up at the end and give Harry the > Filebolt a little early > > I think this dream was provoked by the rumors on the Harry > Potter newsgroup that Hagrid's house will be made of (fire-proof) > stone and that the trophy room features a plaque for Special > Services to the School awarded to a T. M. Riddell. But > *could* the film be *this* bad?? Wait till you see "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Mrs. Doubtfire" ("In the wacky and outrageous follow-up to the smash hit "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Alcatraz, Because Azkaban is Too Hard to Spell," Harry Potter wins the dangerous Triwizards Tournament thanks to the help of his Dark Arts Professor, who uses Polyjuice Potion to change himself into his warm and doting nanny. At the same time "she" teaches him the true meaning of family and friendship. Robin Williams as you've never seen him before!................) - CMC From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 04:01:47 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:01:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Could the Movie be this bad? References: <979354318.7746@egroups.com> <000d01c07d16$834d2f00$e4c54b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <3A5FD32B.8C5F5F9E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9118 Caius Marcius wrote: > Wait till you see "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Mrs. Doubtfire" ("In the > wacky and outrageous follow-up to the smash hit "Harry Potter and the > Prisoner of Alcatraz, Because Azkaban is Too Hard to Spell," Harry Potter > wins the dangerous Triwizards Tournament thanks to the help of his Dark Arts > Professor, who uses Polyjuice Potion to change himself into his warm and > doting nanny. At the same time "she" teaches him the true meaning of family > and friendship. Robin Williams as you've never seen him > before!................) Caius, I think we need to have a talk with your pharmacist.... --Amanda From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 13 03:55:58 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 22:55:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ashley Message-ID: <200101130413.f0D4DEC00403@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9119 >ASHLEY (who has not yet gone over the edge to H/H :) ) Yay, Ashley! Stay strong, for the forces of H/H abound... Kathy, R/H and proud (in case no one here has heard that before) From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 13 04:44:36 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 04:44:36 -0000 Subject: Books to Film (Was: Can the Movie be this bad>) Message-ID: <93omfk+g2ja@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9120 I am currently reading the Selected Journals of LM Montgomery V. III, which has absolutely *nothing* to do with our beloved Harry, but I came across this passage and thought of us, the HP obsessed. "I don't know whether I shall *ever* become sensible enough *not* to go see screen versions of my favorite books. I am afraid I won't because I have disappoointed often enough to cure me of the foolishness if I were curable. (Long passage describing what was wrong with 1922's Prisoner of Zenda) I would resolve never to go see another book-film if I thought I could keep it but I know I cannot. I will always go to them when occasion offers and always be sorry I did. I know how she felt. I am the same way. Although I did stay far away from Anne 3 earlier this year... Trina, who is only 68% obsessed, according to the tally. Doesn't hosting a board and a chat count in obsessiveness? Plus being a member of this fine organization! From fefe at fazekas.hu Sat Jan 13 04:46:02 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (Fefe ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 04:46:02 -0000 Subject: OT: Cameras (was: Muggle things in Hogwarts) In-Reply-To: <3A5FD22F.DF3D81F@texas.net> Message-ID: <93omib+2blj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9121 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Scott wrote: > > > --I think that you must be right, despite Hermione's comments. What > > I mean is that Colin certainly implies he's using a muggle camera, > > and that it is only the potion that the pictures are developed in > > that makes them move. I had just assumed that the camera had a > > magical element but then perhaps not. Any explanations? > > Explanation 1: > > Well, in an older, non-Instamatic type camera, the kind where you change > the lenses yourself and carry around huge camera cases with lots of > different lenses and filters and stuff and have genuine lens caps that > you can forget to remove (instead of the modern ones that disappear like On a REAL camera (like mine :) you can NOT forget to remove the lens caps because then you couldn't see anything in the view-finder and that would remind you... because a REAL camera is a reflex camera :) And it weighs at least a few pounds... > Star Trek doors) the only non-mechanical part is the teeny little > battery for the light meter. I don't think batteries would necessarily be > affected. So it should work just fine. But the light meter is electronic so it may stop working, but in most cases, especially outside, the light can be estimated by looking up to the sky... btw my Zenit doesn't even need a battery for the light meter. The Praktica does need one, but its light meter is by far superior to the Zenit's. It IS a real camera, nothing automatic, but everything precise and reliable... > > AND, people who are into photography and develop their own film, which > Colin does, tend to be purists about equipment and use the "real" cameras Yes, i forgot about this, if he develops his own film, then he must be a real photographer and then, he must use a real camera. > rather than the little idiot boxes. So I bet he has an old Nikon or > something, like I do, rather than a Fuji technology fest, which > presumably would screw up. Yes, that's what i was talking about... > > Explanation 2: > > It's a Flint. I don't think so. Maybe she forgot about it, but we explained it very well, so it's not a Flint anymore :) And everybody, sorry for being offtopic with this camera stuff... :) > > --Amanda Fefe From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 05:11:37 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:11:37 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. In-Reply-To: <01C07C19.D85D6580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <93oo29+mor3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9122 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo > > Malfoy - I like the french Mal foi - 'bad faith' derivation though I think > there are other interpretations about. What are the other ones? I like the French thing too. Seems like Rowling uses a lot of French in naming. > > Age: hmm, older than the Marauders we suspect, though I do not think there is > any hard evidence to support this. I kind of like the theory that he's a contemporary of Arthur Weasely. Then we could continue to go with the whole old school ties (er, or enmities) theme. > > Fate - Death is too good for him, but he is such a politician I fancy he will > play both sides of the field and wind up alive at the end of book 7. That's an interesting scenario. It would make the ending more morally complex. This group seems to have a healthy appetite for end game speculation. I like that, although it means that we'll all go bonkers revising our little theories after Book Five comes out. > > ************** > Questions: > > 1. Does Lucius have any good qualities? > None revealed so far. > 2. What does Lucius want? - to be Voldemort's lieutenant or to be Voldemort? > That's a very good question. I kind of suspect, like you, that he has an opportunistic streak. > 3. Will he live beyond the end of Book 7? > I see him as slated for either death or imprisonment in Akzaban, unless he pulls some sort of repentance thing. But we can only have so many repentant baddies at the end of the book. But if Draco gets redeemed (no idea whether he will or not; he really isn't completely characterized enough to say) and he doesn't, wham, instant angst scenario. But not like we haven't had something of that sort before (those Crouches). > 4. What does Lucius do with his days? Surely plotting to overthrow the world as > we know it can only fill in so much time. Does he like a good game of > backgammon? Only time will tell. I see him enjoying whatever sports evil British aristocrats favor. Do they still play polo? Chess is far too cliched (too many villains are chess players; it's getting to be dull. Thankfully, HP has far more balanced portrayal of the ancient game), and croquet too silly and absurd. Maybe he hunts magical critters on his estates. Charmian From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Jan 13 05:21:25 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 21:21:25 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <3A5FC500.71137CA3@texas.net> References: <93odff+ath8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010112211606.00c087f0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9123 At 09:01 PM 1/12/01 -0600, Amanda Lewanski wrote: >Let's get real. No one, but no one, can make a movie we'll like, in that >it is authentic to the little details we love so and has all the words we >know by heart and weigh and sift for shades of meaning. I suppose you're right... There are three movie versions of _Little Women_, and my Louisa May Alcott-adoring household hates every one of them... And don't get my mom started on the TV Series of _Little Men_, i.e. the one that killed off Professor Bhear in order to bring in a hunk named "Nick" (not nearly-headless) for Jo's love interest. Maybe that's where I got Brad Pitt as Dumbledore in my dream... It would be an equivalent atrocity. -- Dave From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 05:20:46 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:20:46 -0000 Subject: Muggle things in Hogwarts In-Reply-To: <93oe3c+2h7v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ooje+mh5e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9124 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Fefe " wrote: > Hi all ! > > In GoF, Chapter 28, Hermione explained why Muggle things are useless > in Hogwarts: > > "All those substitutes for magic Muggles use - electricity, > computers, and radar, and all those things - they all go haywire > around Hogwarts, there's too much magic in the air. No, Rita's using > magic to eavesdrop, she must be." > The first one was the Ford > Anglia, in CoS, and it DID go wrong near Hogwarts... I don't know how > much electronics are in an Anglia, but the ignition system is surely > electric (at least partially) and if it goes wrong, it should be > enough reason for a flying car to fall down :) Like any pre-1980 car, an Anglia has NO electronics; even the electrical system is really all-mechanical. And if it won't work around Hogwarts, how come it can function in the Forbidden Forest? (And what does it do for fuel?) The other one was > Colin Creevey's camera, also in CoS: > > "He was clutching what looked like an ordinary Muggle camera, and the > moment Harry looked at him, he went bright red." > > (I think this means that it WAS a Muggle camera.) > , but Colin could have > also used a fully mechanical camera... I think that fully mechanical > Muggle machines doesn't go wrong in Hogwarts, because i can't imagine > any reason for them to do so. When i found this, i was happy because > i just hate those automatic "soap-dish" cameras most people use > nowadays :) I think Colin's camera is all-mechanical, and he might have already been used to working without a light meter; if he's a purist on a budget (unless British milkmen are paid much more than I think!), he might sooner accept well-used professional equipment, bought piece by piece, than an el-cheapo automatic model. > Btw Harry's watch was surely a magical one, but then, why did it go > wrong underwater ? Oh yes, it could also have been a fully mechanical > Muggle watch, although i can't imagine the Dursleys buying him such > an expensive thing :) > Harry might have had an all-mechanical one the Dursleys bought for Dudley, which got tossed into the second bedroom when Dudley wanted a watch he could play video games on. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 05:21:11 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:21:11 -0000 Subject: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010112145613.00bf2210@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <93ook7+nh3d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9125 Dave expressed the concern: >the trophy room features a plaque for Special >Services to the School awarded to a T. M. Riddell. So what's the problem? Come CoS he'll just be Llord Voldemort! (Welsh, perhaps.) Amy Z P.S. even with the fireproof home Hagrid can still have Norbert, it'll just turn the house into a furnace instead of a bonfire. P.P.S. for the dreaded answer to your question, "Could the movie be this bad?", see Home Alone. If Harry just once claps his hands to his face and screams, I'm leaving. Hey John, seen this one? It's a palindrome!: __________________________ Dubya won? No way, bud! __________________________ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 05:22:39 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:22:39 -0000 Subject: Muggle things in Hogwarts In-Reply-To: <93oe3c+2h7v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93oomv+nhe7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9126 Fefe wrote: >Btw Harry's watch was surely a magical one, but then, why did it go >wrong underwater ? Oh yes, it could also have been a fully mechanical >Muggle watch, although i can't imagine the Dursleys buying him such >an expensive thing :) How about an old-fashioned, wind-it-up-every-day watch? Those are purely mechanical, no batteries or anything. Nowadays they're hard to find (in the US anyway) but they used to be the cheap way to go. And they'd probably conk underwater, especially if they claimed to be waterproof... Amy Z. -------------------------------------------------------------------- "Ha, ha, ha," said Hermione sarcastically. "Goblins don't need protection. Haven't you been listening to what Professor Binns has been telling us about goblin rebellions?" "No," said Harry and Ron together. --HP and the Goblet of Fire -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 05:54:27 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 05:54:27 -0000 Subject: Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <93odff+ath8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93oqik+e9jl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9127 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > It sound like you imagined DISNEY had done it. Let's see: One of the > Backstreet Boys for Harry.. Britney Spears for Hermione (that's what > was probably on your mind with the Barbie Doll. Pre-Engorgement charm > or post?) John Goodman for Hagrid.. It's possible to make an even > worse movie than the one they're probably making now. > > Be afraid. Be very afraid. Oh, no. Disney'd cast it like this; -Harry; Frankie Muniz -Ron; Jake Lloyd -Weasley twins; Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen (did I mention that in this version the twins are in the same year as Harry? And aren't related to Ron? Oh, yeah, they're girls, too) -Hermione; written out (with the Olsen twins, there "wasn't room for another girl" -Draco; written out -Percy; Topher Grace (That '70's Prefect[?]) -Dumbledore; Fyvush Finkel -McGonagall; Madonna. ('Nuff said) -Snape; written out (too "gray" a character for Disney) -Hagrid; Drew Carrey -Voice of ALL ghosts- Robin Williams -Vernon Dursley; Arnold Schwartzenegger (at whose insistence, the character is turned into a Really Nice Guy who shows up for all of Harry's Quidditch matches. And is the only Austrian living in the UK to drive a Hummer) -Petunia Dursley; Roseanne Whatever-She-Calls-Herself-This-Week. (Also swallowed the Niceness Potion) -Dudley; Billy Gilman (shades of Alternity, there) -Quirrell; Brad Pitt -Voldemort; written out From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 06:05:18 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:05:18 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <93obem+tcs4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93or6u+7cga@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9128 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > karob_7 at y... wrote: > > > > > Yup. The usage "fixin' to" and the double modal (might ought, might > > should) are the only dialect usages on the increase, by the way. > Other > > Texas peculiarities are dying out. > > > > --Amanda, font of useless trivia (is that redundant?) Even > worse, I say 'used to could'. It's even worse because I have a > totally bland midwestern accent, so it all sounds funny. > I'm from Vermont, and the "Yankee" accent is almost dead, except for older people from rural areas. Everyone else talks in Standard American TV Anchorperson English. BTW, could you use "used to could" in a sentence? I'm curious how it's used as I've only heard it in a Jeff Foxworthy routine. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "You might be a northern redneck, if you've ever given your wife snow tires for her anniversary. (Double points if they're used)" --------------------------------------------------------------------- From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 06:17:14 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:17:14 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <3A5FD2BA.62323542@texas.net> Message-ID: <93orta+erjp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9129 Amanda, Hope I didn't offend you! I wasn't trying to dis the Texan dialect, I just didn't want to come home sounding like a different person. I didn't go to a party school (in the least), but I did have great fun. The area I was in to my mind seemed barren, but I determined that it was better to look up - at the huge, pretty sky - than to look at the poor scrawny trees. I went back and visited a couple of months ago, and have only fond memories. So! How to bring this back on-topic at least a little.... I know! Harry has a Privet Drive vocabulary and a Hogwarts vocabulary (since he can't talk about magic at home)! That's the same sort of thing, isn't it? kimberly who would never dare 'mess with Texas'. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Kimberly wrote: > > > Then *that* must be where I got it. I worked really hard at not > > picking up things like 'y'all' and 'fixin' to' when I spent 3.5 years > > in college in TX, but somehow I picked up 'might should'. Rats! Even > > worse, I say 'used to could'. It's even worse because I have a > > totally bland midwestern accent, so it all sounds funny. > > Studies have found that there's a direct relationship between how happy > people were/are in Texas--i.e., how much they liked living there-- and the > degree to which they internalized the usages. Did you have fun? Were you > at the party school in San Marcos, or someplace else? If it really bugs > you, you might oughta think about therapy..... > > --Amanda From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 13 06:24:28 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:24:28 -0000 Subject: Fanfic convert Message-ID: <93osas+k45d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9130 Okay, y'all, my abstaining from fanfic has officially ended. I just finished all four chapters of Ebony's "Trouble in Paradise" and I'm now hooked. When is Chapter 5 coming out, Ebony? Dare I wander over to PoU and ASA? Well, it is now 1:30 and I am fixin' to go bed. I used to could stay up all hours, but those days are long gone. Trina (whose mom's family is from Tennessee and who currently resides in South Carolina) From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 06:25:16 2001 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:25:16 -0000 Subject: Been gone for a while and missed EVERYTHING! Message-ID: <93oscc+8bd1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9131 Okay. I decided a while ago (couple of months? can't remember exactly) that I was going to take a computer break and that "well, not much is happening on the HP4G list that's news... I mean, the movie's not coming out until November, the next book isn't due for another *2* years... there's plenty of time for a break." So I stressed about seeing my in-laws for Christmas and spending 2 weeks away from the cats and dog and house... went on that vacation... came back, and started catching back up on the news here a couple of days ago. It seemed to be pretty similar to when I left. We were up to chapter 25 in the summaries... cool. Oh! People want to get together with each other to watch the movies in November! Great idea! (btw, I'd love to go if there are any plans for a get-together in Los Angeles.... San Fransisco would be fine, too, but I know my way around L.A. better) And then I'm scanning the subjects tonight, and lo and behold, I find one that mentions Penny and others being doubly famous. Huh? What's that about? Okay. WHY DIDN'T ANYONE WARN ME I HAD MY HEAD UP MY.... um... sorry. First of all, I feel dumb for not even keeping up enough to know that the more recent editions of the books had been altered. I still have to go "back in time" list-wise to find out what happened originally (anyone want to point me in a direction? Message number?). And, of course, I've been taking a net-wide computer break, so I didn't have a clue about the Salon.com article, either! Boy. That'll teach me to think "things are pretty tame on the HP4G list, so I'll just take a vacation." Anyway, good to see you all in black and white, again. Hope I can meet up with some of you in living color come November. Jen (who now has NO chance of being one of the top 20 posters, and now probably has 1000 messages to thumb through to get up to speed on everything.) From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Jan 13 06:15:06 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:15:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Research (was:(very OT) London Business District Question...) References: <93lu09+eean@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5FF269.EBBF2A32@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9132 Ebony wrote: > So sorry for the interruption... wouldn't do it if it wasn't an > emergency... > > *This* is why every creative writing teacher on earth advises would- > be Rowlings to "write what you know". > > Is there a plate-glass high rise office building or civic structure > anywhere in or near London? You don't find this sort of thing out > from travel guides, you know. Ah. You're discovering a natural writing phase, when you start perplexing people with strange requests for information. I think one of the weirdest ones I ever had was when I emailed my editor (who lives in New York) while I was working on The Wild Swans and asked her to give me as complete and accurate a description as she could of the penguin exhibit in the Central Park Zoo. A wise writer doesn't tie herself to writing only what she knows, because if she doesn't know it, she'll take the trouble of finding someone who does know it and ask questions. Seriously, as a writer, you should start cultivating experts. Collect their names and addresses in a rolodex, and then call them whenever you need to know about things. About home winemaking, about guns, about astronomy, whatever. In my experience, people are pleased and flattered when a writer calls them up and says, "I desperately need to know about ____ and I know you know all about it. Can you enlighten me?" That IS one advantage to writing fantasy, however, I've discovered. If you dig deep enough, you usually will find that there's a magical explanation if you got the details wrong. Peg From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 06:32:07 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:32:07 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <93or6u+7cga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93osp7+3qmn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9133 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: > > BTW, could you use "used to could" in a sentence? I'm curious how > it's used as I've only heard it in a Jeff Foxworthy routine. Don't know Jeff Foxworthy, but as for "used to could", I'd say: "I used to could stay up all night just to watch a 3 Stooges marathon with my friends, but I'm getting old." I promise - no more OT for me tonight! kimberly From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Jan 13 06:34:14 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 00:34:14 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Belated Birthday Wishes to Carole; Fanfic; Peg Kerr's book (some OT) References: <93m1cp+p609@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A5FF6E6.88541C08@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9134 pennylin at swbell.net wrote: > Hi everyone -- > > Thanks to Voicelady for reminding us of Carole's birthday! Happy > birthday to Carole!!! [Peg chimes in to say "Happy Birthday, Carole" too!] > I came home to lots of wonderful fanfic additions & just wanted to > reiterate all the praise that has been heaped on the fics of Ebony > (AngieJ), Cassie (DS10 came out on Sunday), John Walton (Crazy Ivan) & > Jim Ferer(Dadgrid). These are all so wonderful! Like Voicelady, I > absolutely cannot enthuse enough over Ebony's fic -- no matter which > "ship" it eventually ends up as, I guarantee you'll enjoy the read! > And, I'm enjoying Kathy's Hermione POV series -- mind you, it's > motivating me to write my own Hermione POV (which would differ > *significantly* from Kathy's take on things), but I *am* enjoying it. > We have some real talent on this group. Good thing > too since no Book 5 until 2002 sometime. I haven't read all the fanfic Penny mentions here, but I have read some, and all that I've read I've enjoyed very much: Ebony, John, Cassie, and of course, Penny and Carole. > And, as for *real* talent on this group, I must add that I *finally* > got a chance to read Peg's 2nd novel "Wild Swans" (thanks to Carole > for my Xmas present!). I cannot say enough good things about this > novel either -- it's truly a masterpiece. Should be required reading > for all our members. I highly recommend that you all read it > post haste. > > Penny I've been offlist for several weeks, both because of the holidays and because I'm trying to get back to writing, and so have to curtail my time reading listserve mail. But I miss all you folks desperately, and so decided to come to read some mail tonight. This is a wonderful welcome back. Thanks very much, Penny; I'm so glad you liked the book and really appreciate your recommendation. Positive word of mouth is the very best help you can possible give an author whose work you like. I'll probably still be popping on and off list with comments, although not as much I have been the last few months. Alas, I had to switch my PoU preference to webmail only, although I'm still a member of course and will continue to follow the stories with great interest. But I'm over a thousand messages behind, and I really do have to get another writing project up and running (New Year's resolutions and all that, plus my editor really wants to see a proposal for my next project). But I do want to finish the 7 Heavenly virtues series, and I haven't forgotten the related FAQ request. Anyway, here's a wave to everyone! I'm still here, but I'll be doing more lurking so I can write. But feel free to email me privately if anyone wants to address me on something. Thanks. Cheers, Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Jan 13 07:13:53 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:13:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Religion and Harry References: <003a01c07bf3$34ea17c0$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> <006d01c07c82$6cba1120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A600031.327C27EA@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9135 Hi, Mike. Thanks for letting the list know about this article. May I forward your message to a friend of mine who is an Inklings Scholar? This was interesting for me to read. One of my three major papers for my master's degree was on the Inklings. Peg Aberforth's Goat wrote: > I just found an interesting critical essay about magic in Harry Potter as > compared with its role in fantasy by overtly Christian authors like Lewis > and Tolkein. The author is a RC apologist and develops a respectful and > relatively balanced critique. > > Get it at his own site: > http://members.tripod.com/Snyder_AMDG/SDG.html > > Mirrored here: > http://www.christianfantasy.net/sdg1.html > > [The latter site--also RC--has a number of other Harry Potter reviews. The > Webmistress doesn't think much of him.] > > ------------------------ > A few comments on Magic, Middle Earth, Merlin Muggles and Meaning > > Premise: > > Of course, the essay starts from the premise that young people shouldn't > experiment with the occult. Obviously, many members of this group don't > agree with that premise, which will short circuit the whole essay. In > particular, I don't think Wiccans (of whom the author makes explicit > mention) will particularly appreciate being what the essay presumes children > should never become. > > Content: > > I think Graydanus takes a heck of a long time to make a rather small point: > the HP books are all about becoming a magician. Tolkein's and Lewis's books > aren't. So *of course,* the heroes of the HP books could more directly role > model future careers in wizardry or witchcraft. Fine. Point taken. (Whether > that means anything is another question altogether; but it doesn't take > several pages of literary analysis to prove the difference.) > > OTOH, if he really wants to obsess about the role of magic in books, he > might take a closer look at the function of magic in Narnia. Narnian magic > isn't just a curious extension to the normal Narnian physical laws; it's > bound up in the basic parameters of reality. As opposed to Hogwarts magic, > it's not just a sort physical force; it also has deep moral implications. > > For instance: When Aslan comes back to life after being killed by the White > Witch, it is through "deep magic from before the dawn of time." Hence, magic > in Narnia isn't just quidditch and special FX; it's a philosophical > quantity--in fact, it's what makes redemption possible. So if anything, > Narnia is actually more "pro-magic" than HP. > > True, the "magic" in the Narnia stories is embedded in an explicitly > Christian worldview. However, it happens to be a Christian world view that > integrates a panoply of pagan elements. And that's not just incidental to > the story. C.S. Lewis was a Christian apologete--but one with deep respect > toward many other religions. (BTW, his stance is challenging, complicated, > and perhaps not entirely consistent.) > > In any case, if people really really want their children to fear any > non-Christian approach to the supernatural, it would be consistent to keep > both HP *and* Narnia locked up with the roach killer. > > Baaaaaa! > > Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Jan 13 07:36:35 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:36:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Birthday Wishes to Heidi; Texans for HP (OT) References: <3A5F1AA5.A1005DF6@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A600582.8A9EBB70@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9136 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi everyone -- > > Today is Heidi's birthday so feel free to chime in with birthday wishes > for her! Happy Birthday Heidi! > Happy birthday! Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Jan 13 07:19:08 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:19:08 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Religion and Harry References: <003a01c07bf3$34ea17c0$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> <006d01c07c82$6cba1120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A60016C.61957F58@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9137 Ah. I also belatedly note the reference in the article to Alan Jacobs, whose essay ("Harry Potter's Magic") I have so repeatedly recommended to others. Aberforth's Goat wrote: > I just found an interesting critical essay about magic in Harry Potter as > compared with its role in fantasy by overtly Christian authors like Lewis > and Tolkein. The author is a RC apologist and develops a respectful and > relatively balanced critique. From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Jan 13 07:30:22 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 01:30:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Two questions.. References: <93mprh+onjg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A60040D.188D4120@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9138 aiz24 at hotmail.com wrote: > > Why, do you suppose, was Voldemorte nervous and afraid of the smokey > > echoes walking around him during the priori incantatem incident? > One more thing--even someone as conscienceless and evil as Voldemort > has to be just a bit freaked out by seeing his victims reappear before > his eyes. That has to be the mass murderer's worst nightmare. > (Hello, Macbeth.) It's actually an even better allusion, as I've mentioned before, to Act V, Scene 3 of Richard III, where the ghosts of his murdered victims appear to curse him and give comfort to his enemy. See: http://tech-two.mit.edu/Shakespeare/richardiii/richardiii.5.3.html e.g., Enter the Ghost of Prince Edward, son to King Henry VI Ghost of Prince Edward: [To KING RICHARD III] Let me sit heavy on thy soul to-morrow! Think, how thou stab'dst me in my prime of youth At Tewksbury: despair, therefore, and die! To RICHMOND Be cheerful, Richmond; for the wronged souls Of butcher'd princes fight in thy behalf King Henry's issue, Richmond, comforts thee. etc. Peg, who went to her Shakespeare playreading group tonight where she read Twelfth Night out loud with a bunch of friends (I got to read Viola) and had too much caffeinated coffee and so can't sleep and is catching up on reading HP4GU instead. From SHENmagic at aol.com Sat Jan 13 07:55:58 2001 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 02:55:58 EST Subject: Colin and Camera Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9139 > Scott wrote: >> AND, people who are into photography and develop their own film, >which >> Colin does, tend to be purists about equipment and use the "real" >cameras Remember, at the time, he's only 11, probably clutching the equivalent of an Instamatic and "A boy in my dorm said if I develop the film in the right potion, they'll move" (rough quote-- I'm too tired to go hunt up my CoS in the other room for pinpoint accuracy) my bet is starry-eyed Colin never conceived of developing his own pictures until someone mentioned it. I like the idea of craftsmanship- manual and mechanical items working, electronic ones not. So a Muggle self winding (where wrist motion winds the watch) fine Patek Phillippe or Rolex would work or a manual (wind each day by hand), but perhaps an automatic (battery, with memory chips would not. In that case Harry would probably have to have a Gringott's watch; self winding Muggle watches aren't cheap. Aylihael, who did a stint with Heritage Estate Buyers in the watch division a few years back while she was working through internship as a therapist..... From SHENmagic at aol.com Sat Jan 13 08:03:00 2001 From: SHENmagic at aol.com (SHENmagic at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 03:03:00 EST Subject: HP Get-Together Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9140 >Message: 24 > Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 06:25:16 -0000 > From: "Jen Piersol" . Oh! People want to get >together with each other to watch the movies in November! Great >idea! (btw, I'd love to go if there are any plans for a >get-together in Los Angeles.... San Fransisco would be fine, too, Hooray! Another Californian! SF or LA would work for me-- I'm in Sandy Eggo--- Ayihael " From john at walton.to Sat Jan 13 09:24:27 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:24:27 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: Welcome! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9141 Hello and welcome to the Harry Potter for Grownups discussion group! Welcome especially to new members who found out about us from Salon.com and CNN. In the interests of getting to know you and you getting to know us as quickly and easily as possible, please read this message thoroughly. If you have any questions, please contact the moderators at hpforgrownups-owner at egroups.com. We're dedicated to in-depth, thought-provoking and fun discussions of the Harry Potter books, as well as the movies, merchandising and other aspects of the phenomenon we've come to know and love. While there is no age requirement to join the group, you should note that most of our members are over 18. Mature teenagers may enjoy the group, but may find themselves more at home in a group of their peers. In any case, we strongly encourage use of proper spelling, punctuation and grammar in posts, and expect all our members to observe common sense, courtesy and netiquette at all times. You can find out more about the netiquette of this club in the Files section of the eGroups site. The Moderators will also be sending out a separate netiquette message later this weekend. We moved here from Yahoo! Clubs, and have archived the messages from that service (about 8,000 of them!) at a separate eGroup with a search feature. You can access them by joining the HPforGrownups-Archives eGroup -- either send a blank email to HPforGrownups-Archives-subscribe at egroups.com or visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups-Archives We're currently going through "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" on a chapter-by-chapter basis and holding detailed character discussions on a weekly basis. For a list of the contributors, see the files section. For details of past discussions, you can use eGroups' nifty search function. To help new members get into the swing of things, a team of members is in the process of compiling an extensive set of substantive FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) in essay format, gleaned from past list postings and covering subjects such as Mysteries and Inconsistencies, Wands, Wizarding World Governments and major character sketches. We'll post them as they are completed and notify the group. REALLY frequently asked questions, such as the order Harry's parents come out of his wand, the gleam in Dumbledore's eye can be found in the RFAQ, which is still under construction. For detailed information on every aspect of the HP books, we highly recommend the Harry Potter Lexicon, maintained by Steve Vander Ark, one of our members. It can be found at http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon We're also investigating the possibility of a UK Tour, taking in sights relevant to HP such as King's Cross, Edinburgh, the Scottish Highlands and more. Planning has moved to the HPTour eGroup -- to subscribe, send a blank email to HPTour-subscribe at egroups.com or visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPTour General questions can be directed to the List Owner, Penny Linsenmayer, at pennylin at swbell.net Legal stuff: In posting to this group, you grant the Moderators the right and license to use the content of your messages in other contexts. At this time, the Moderators intend to use this permission only for purposes of archiving and creating topical FAQs for the group, but reserve the right to use them for other purposes. If you have any concerns about infringement of your copyright, you are advised to contact the List Owner. Should you have any further questions, feel free to contact the List Owner. ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Moderator With Rock #47 When I am an Evil Overlord...#50 My main computers will have their own special operating system that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and Macintosh computers. ======================================== From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 13 10:43:54 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:43:54 -0000 Subject: Jen/Peg References: <93oscc+8bd1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00e001c07d4d$cebb2960$313370c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9142 Jen said: <<< First of all, I feel dumb for not even keeping up enough to know that the more recent editions of the books had been altered. I still have to go "back in time" list-wise to find out what happened originally (anyone want to point me in a direction? Message number?). And, of course, I've been taking a net-wide computer break, so I didn't have a clue about the Salon.com article, either!>>> Jen, it's so nice to have you back again. There was no one around to correct my mistakes! If you use eGroups' search feature and type "correction", it brings up quite a few of the wand order correction posts and some of the stuff on the Salon.com article that journalist was fixin' to write. It should give you an idea of which message#'s to look at. Peg said: <<>> Well, Peg, I'll certainly miss your wise words here and over at WildSwans, but I'm sure we all understand that you have to try to get back to your professional writing (and you know there is a long and enthusiastic queue forming for your next book before it's even written ... no pressure, you understand!). BTW, I second, third and twentieth all previous recommendations of Peg's novel "The Wild Swans" and just wish Amazon would hurry up and locate a copy of her first book, "Emerald House Rising! Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 13 11:07:02 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 11:07:02 -0000 Subject: Weekly discussions (admin)...volunteers please! Message-ID: <013401c07d50$f5871420$313370c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9143 Hello everyone, A quick update on the weekly discussions, particularly for all the lovely new members who have apparated in. This week we've been discussing Chapter 25 of "...Goblet of Fire" and Lucius Malfoy, with lead off summaries by Joywitch and Storm, respectively. Feel free to chip in on those subjects if you've only just joined (the summaries are message #8973 for Lucius and 8882 for the chapter summary). There is a schedule of the dates and volunteers for future weeks, here: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Discussion+Summaries/Discussions+on+Harry+Potter+for+Grownups.htm Heidi is in Disneyland celebrating her birthday and will post her summaries for next week when she gets back. This could be on Tuesday in some time zones. Now, we all have a mental image of Heidi in 'Mickey Mouse' ears, don't we? Simon Branford has asked if someone else could do the summaries for the week beginning Jan 22nd, as he is busy with the FAQ summaries and opening supermarkets as fanfic's infamous Dr Branford, so we are looking for volunteers to do one or both of these. They are Chapter 27, "Padfoot Returns" and a sketch of Peter Pettigrew. I'll explain the ins and outs to any volunteers who aren't familar with the discussions, so don't hold back! E-mail me off-list. A reminder to anyone else who has previously volunteered to check when your summaries are due and let us know if you can't do them. For information: I've uploaded a links table to all the previous GoF Chapter summaries, here: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Discussion+Summaries/GoFChapters.htm I will add a similar table for the character sketches when I've identified all the message numbers. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HP4GU-FAQ-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 13:06:03 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:06:03 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <93orta+erjp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93pjrr+f000@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9144 Kimberly wrote: >So! How to bring this back on-topic at least a little.... >I know! Harry has a Privet Drive vocabulary and a Hogwarts vocabulary >(since he can't talk about magic at home)! That's the same sort of >thing, isn't it? Yup--it's called "code-switching," and Harry's fluent. In Privet Drive speak, "Muggle" is translated to "normal person." "That great bullying git" is translated to "Dinky Duddydums." And "I'm going to go bats**t insane if I don't get out of this house NOW" is translated to "I have to go write a letter to my godfather." Amy Z. -------------------------------------------------------------------- "And some old witch in Bath had a book that you could *never stop reading*! You just had to wander around with your nose in it, trying to do everything one-handed." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets -------------------------------------------------------------------- (more evidence that Ron is a Seer--would that witch in Bath have the initials JKR by any chance?) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 13:08:07 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:08:07 -0000 Subject: Two questions.. In-Reply-To: <3A60040D.188D4120@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <93pjvn+kvii@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9145 Peg said: >It's actually an even better allusion, as I've mentioned before, to Act V, >Scene 3 of Richard III, where the ghosts of his murdered victims appear to >curse him and give comfort to his enemy. Well spotted! Forgot that one! JKR has to have been remembering it. Time to go read RIII, which I've seen but never read. She's good for my reading list. I started reading the Iliad for the first time because she said she wrote the Cedric/Harry exchange because she loved the passage about saving a comrade's body from desecration. Amy Z. ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We didn't give it to him because he's a Muggle!" said Fred indignantly. "No, we gave it to him because he's a great bullying git," said George. "Isn't he, Harry?" "Yeah, he is, Mr. Weasley," said Harry earnestly. --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ------------------------------------------------------------------- From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 13 13:21:46 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 13:21:46 -0000 Subject: Weekly summaries ....sorted! Message-ID: <004501c07d63$c7bc13c0$a93670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9146 Thanks to Carole and Michelle for volunteering to take on the lead-off summaries for week after next. I've asked Michelle to tackle Peter Pettigrew and Carole is doing "Padfoot Returns" (I can't imagine why she would be interested in anything to do with Sirius Black...) Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 14:26:40 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:26:40 -0000 Subject: (Pro-)HP Sermon Message-ID: <93poj0+bb0a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9147 I came across this sermon on the web and thought others might find it interesting also. I notice it's filed under "recent" so the exact address might not last long. http://www.uureston.org/minister/sermons/recent/hpotter.htm Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Very haunted up here, isn't it?" said Ron, with the air of one commenting on the weather. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ----------------------------------------------------------------- From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 15:47:38 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Rohleder) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 09:47:38 -0600 Subject: HP OT--Dreams of Hogwarts, Americanized....and cypress References: Message-ID: <003101c07d78$2dd42800$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9148 Ok. It's about time--I finally had a dream of Hogwarts. I was late to Snape's class on the History of the American short story. Right afterwards was Herbalogy, and somehow a baby kitten had gotten in and was eating cypress that was in a tank/aquarian, and the teacher looked over, and said, oh, don't worry. It's good for them. They like it, just like they like Catnip. Now, does anyone know, is that true? Or is my mind completely gone HP-batty? (Snape didn't look so bad, btw...tall, thin, gankly (gangly?), but not so bad.) Of course, pairing me up with Snoopy to do an interviewing assignment. The funniest thing of all was my school uniform looked almost exactly like the pink thing Holli Would wore in Cool World! Argh. Dreams. ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vmclure at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 15:43:35 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:43:35 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <93osp7+3qmn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93pt37+ka7b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9149 I jest joined this here list and I'm fixin' to write this here re-ply. I used to could just write these here thangs real fast, but I've slowed down a bit. ;-) Sorry! Couldn't resist. I teach freshman composition at a rural community college and believe me, the dialect has not died out! Anyone got a formula for an anti-dialect potion? Perhaps an aerosal variety?? Victoria --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, nlpnt at y... wrote: > > > > BTW, could you use "used to could" in a sentence? I'm curious how > > it's used as I've only heard it in a Jeff Foxworthy routine. > > Don't know Jeff Foxworthy, but as for "used to could", I'd say: > > "I used to could stay up all night just to watch a 3 Stooges marathon > with my friends, but I'm getting old." > > I promise - no more OT for me tonight! > kimberly From ABoyko at starchoice.com Sat Jan 13 16:25:39 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:25:39 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE55@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9150 > -----Original Message----- > From: Snuffles MacGoo [SMTP:msmacgoo at one.net.au] > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 7:00 AM > To: HPforGrownups (E-mail) > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. > ************** > Questions: > > 1. Does Lucius have any good qualities? > He is concerned with proper hygiene. He knows that a grubby sock is just teeming with germs and must be disposed of. And he bought all new brooms for the Slytherin Quidditch team. That was generous. And he gave Ginny a diary, knowing that her family couldn't afford to buy her a new one. He only has one child. Imagine a whole mass of little Malfoys! > 2. What does Lucius want? - to be Voldemort's lieutenant or to be > Voldemort? > Lieutenant. It's easier to avoid the firing squads that way. > 3. Will he live beyond the end of Book 7? > Yes, because he's such a weasel. But he's going to get what's been coming to him. I think of the Malfoys as the wizard equivalent of the Dursleys. They're going to get their comeuppance the same way the Dursleys have been getting theirs (ballooning aunts, ton-tongues). > 4. What does Lucius do with his days? Surely plotting to overthrow the > world as > we know it can only fill in so much time. Does he like a good game of > backgammon? > A day in the life of Lucius Malfoy: 7:00 am Time to wake up and berate house elf for not singing "Wake Up Sunshine" in the key of F. 7:30 Breakfast. Berate house elf for presenting copy of "The Daily Prophet" upside down. 8:00 Lovingly polish collection of Dark Arts Memorabilia. 12:00pm Lunch. Berate house elf for putting two sprigs of parsley on quiche, not three. Two sprigs are for the even-numbered days. 12:30 Write stern letter to Draco threatening to throw out his vintage collection of Chocolate Frog cards if he doesn't get better marks than that mudblood Hermione Granger in Potions ASAP. Berate house elf for not clipping the claws on owl at a precise angle. 1:00 Nap time. Berate house elf for fanning too vigorously. 2:00 Inspect gardens. Use Avada Kedavra curse on gnomes. 3:00 Tea time with Narcissa. Berate house elf because cookies are too sugary. 3:30 Write love letter to Voldemort. 4:00 Croquet with the Crabbes and Goyles. Berate house elf for twitching while being used as a mallet. 6:00 Supper. Berate house elf for pounding head on the good china cabinet. 7:00 Backgammon with MacNair. Plot to rid the world of mudbloods. 8:00 Retire to drawing room with brandy. Berate house elf because fire in fireplace is too crackly. 9:30 Time for a bubble bath. Dream of Snape. 11:00 Retire to bed after a long day. Berate house elf because bunny slippers are not fluffy enough. > 5. Did Snape and Malfoy ever have a fling? - Is Draco their love child? > Who was > on top? > I can tell you that the house elf is always on the bottom. Angela From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 16:29:35 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:29:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") References: <93or6u+7cga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A60826F.C2EAD2DF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9151 nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: > BTW, could you use "used to could" in a sentence? I'm curious how > it's used as I've only heard it in a Jeff Foxworthy routine. *ahem* scene: Christmas Eve party "Y'all should probably put your drinks up on the mantel--the baby's fixin' to get into them. Before he could stand up, we used to could put them on the table, but now we have to make sure they're out of his reach." Actually came out of my mouth. Clearly, I do a fair bit of code-switching myself, because I can carry on educated conversations, too. We did a linguistics experiment once, verifying that people use "-ing" more often in stressed or prestige situations, and "-in'" when they're relaxed or among friends. Same thing with laid-back Texas usages. I'm not really all that bad--I worked for a lawyer in Austin once, who taught me, among other things, that "Mexican" and "shit" are both two-syllable words. Lots of great, disappearing regionalisms, too, like "so dry the fish have ticks" and "can't find his a** with both hands" (for emphasis, add "and a map"). --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 16:29:42 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:29:42 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") References: <93orta+erjp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A608276.F9F8B0D2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9152 Kimberly wrote: > Amanda, > > Hope I didn't offend you! I wasn't trying to dis the Texan dialect, > I just didn't want to come home sounding like a different person. Great heavens, no. I make fun of it all the time myself, just like I gripe nonstop about the heat. I figure, I was born here and had no choice in the matter, so I can gripe. People who moved here of their own volition, it's their own fault so they can shut up. And how can I possibly laugh at anyone else if I don't stand in the lineup myself? Sounds like you were in North Texas, the Dallas area, or maybe Lubbock, from your description of the wide-open (read: barren) spaces. Ugh. North Texas is also a stronghold of Texas dialect peculiarities, probably because there's fewer military bases and stuff, and less dilution. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 16:29:49 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:29:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") References: <93pt37+ka7b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A60827D.5E118AB6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9153 Victoria McLure wrote: > I jest joined this here list and I'm fixin' to write this here re-ply. > I used to could just write these here thangs real fast, but I've > slowed down a bit. ;-) > Sorry! Couldn't resist. I teach freshman composition at a rural > community college and believe me, the dialect has not died out! > Anyone got a formula for an anti-dialect potion? Perhaps an aerosal > variety?? My professors, who were teaching future teachers, advised teaching Standard English (the kind one must write and speak for The Establishment to touch you) sort of as a second language, presenting it as something you must know. That way, the student's original dialect is not denigrated, just presented as a different mode that is appropriate in some situations, just not all. And students respond better to this approach, I'm told. But you probably already knew that. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 16:29:56 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 10:29:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Cameras (was: Muggle things in Hogwarts) References: <93omib+2blj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A608283.FB04D833@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9154 Fefe wrote: > And everybody, sorry for being offtopic with this camera stuff... :) Tsk! This is not off-topic. This is detail-oriented (or "anal," to those of limited understanding like my nearest and dearest....). --Amanda From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 13 17:13:38 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:13:38 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <93pt37+ka7b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93q2c2+f8j8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9155 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Victoria McLure" wrote: I teach freshman composition at a rural community college and believe me, the dialect has not died out! Anyone got a formula for an anti- dialect potion? Perhaps an aerosal variety?? And why would we want to do a thing like that? Then we would all sound like newscastes and the beauty of regional language would be gone. Besides, can you imagine Hagrid and Dumbledore sounding *exactly* the same? Trina (it's a dialect not a disorder) From muggle-reader at angelfire.com Sat Jan 13 17:22:25 2001 From: muggle-reader at angelfire.com (Demelza ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:22:25 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93lug8+fmap@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93q2sh+a5bp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9156 pennylin at s... wrote: > Don't have my books in front of me at the moment (and am too lazy at > the moment to retrieve them), but wasn't Percy described as "apopletic > with rage" at the twins' antics regarding Ginny? I couldn't find that in the American version of CoS, though I shall look again. Wasn't he the one > who was very worried about her and got her to drink some sort of > potion? This is from CoS Ch 8 American, first paragraph regarding how some students were feeling ill had o take the Pepperup potion. "Ginny Weasley, who had been looking pale, was bullied into taking some by Percy." My remembrance is that Percy was quite protective of Ginny in CoS in particular. That could possibly but lets look how Percy treats his brothers. CoS, Ch 9, Amer. Percy catches, Ron, Harry and Hermione emerging from Myrtle's bathroom. "Get--away--from--there--"Percy said, striding toward then and starting to bustle them along, flapping his arms. "Don't you *care * what this looks like? Coming back here while everyone's at dinner--" "Why shouldn't we be here?" said Ron hotly, stopping short and glaring at Percy. "Listen, we never laid a finger on that cat!" "That's what I told Ginny, " said Rercy fiercely, "but she still seems to think you're going to be expelled, I've never seen her so upset, crying her yes out, you might think of *her *. All the first years are thoroughly overexcited by this business--" " *You * don't care about Ginny, " said Ron, whose ears were now reddening, " *You're * just worried I'm going to mess up your chances of being Head Boy--" "Five points from Gryffindor!" Percy said tersely, fingering his prefect badge. Did Percy take the 5 points away because they were near Myrtle's bathroom? It wasn't until Hermione and Penelope Clearwater were attacked that the students were escorted to and from classes and were confined to their houses at all other times. OR was it because Ron's accusation about Percy caring more about his Head Boy chances struck a cord of the painful truth? If so, then this says a lot about Percy's character. CoS Ch 12, Amer. "Fred, George, and Ginny had chosen to stay at school rather than visit Bill in Egypt with Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. Percy, who disapproved of what he termed their childish behavior [described earlier in the paragraph as playing Exploding Snap and practicing dueling~~Demelza] didn't spend much time in the Gryffindor common room. He had already told them pompously that *he * was only staying over Christmas because it was his duty as prefect to support the teachers during this troubled time" So here's the scenario. Not only is something in the school maiming things but it is also Christmas and Percy tells his sibling that he's staying at Hogwarts not to be with them, but to support the teachers. The reason for Fred, George and Ginny's decision to stay at school rather than visit Bill is alluded to in PoA: it's too expensive and the raffle winnings paid for the summer trip. But let's say the Weasleys did have enough money to bring the entire family to Egypt but the children still decided to stay at school, it's pretty cold-hearted of Percy to tell his siblings he's only there to support the teachers. CoS Ch. 16 Amer "It was probably the worst say of Harry's entire life. He, Ron, Fred and George sat together in a corner of the Gryffindor common room unable to say anything to each other. Percy wasn't there. He had gone to send an owl to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, then shut himself up in his dormitory." So his sister is gone and could be dead or alive. His brothers sitting together in shock. And he's shut away in his dormitory? The same guy, who a few chapters before scolds Ron for not caring about how upset Ginny is, locks himself up in his dormitory while his brothers are clearly upset over Ginny's disappearance. > > In SS/PS, the Twins tell Percy that he must not sit with the other > > Prefects during Christmas Dinner because Christmas was family time. > > Why would the Twins go out of their way to tell Percy that? They > > didn't tell Ron to sit with them during Christmas Dinner; they > > assumed he would. Obviously, Fred and George feel the distance > between Percy and the rest. Possibly because it was truly Christmas and during Christmas dinner, they didn't play any pranks on Percy. Face it, Fred and George are msicheivous, but they certainly aren't evil incarnate. From the passages I found in CoS, Ron feels Percy is distant too. > Yeah, but they obviously *wanted* him to sit with them. If they > didn't care, they would have just let him sit with the prefects if he > was so inclined. > > PERCY and MOLLY > > Molly realizes that the Twins are delivering an accurate portrayal > > and > > she admonishes them. Molly knows that Percy is pretentious but > > defends > > him because she knows that no one else will. > > Hmm .... I don't know that she defends him "because no one else will." > I think it's more that she sees alot of herself in Percy, and they > have a special bond as a result. I don't think she sees him as > pretentious or bossy though .... not unless she recognizes that she > herself has those very same traits to some extent. She's bossy & a > stickler for rules. PoA, at the Leaky Cauldron "everyone snickered into their pudding" except Molly and Percy. I surmise that Arthur snickered too. Arthur doesn't seem like the type of person who would defend a pompous windbag. > Have to step in & defend Percy somewhat. I maintain that Percy > will come through in the end. We've had clues of that in each book. > I don't think Ron or the twins give Percy enough credit -- they all > sell him a bit short IMO. > > Penny As I said earlier, I'm not 'anti-Percy'. But it's really hard for me to believe that Percy has not contributed to his siblings opinion of him: that he is the innocent victim. I don't think this justifies his teasing by the Twins, but Percy ain't no saint either! ~Demelza From muggle-reader at angelfire.com Sat Jan 13 17:29:30 2001 From: muggle-reader at angelfire.com (Demelza ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:29:30 -0000 Subject: Wizard Wear In-Reply-To: <93oc8j+c4q0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93q39q+bhp9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9157 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > This has been bothering me since I read GoF. Do Molly and Arthur wear > Muggle-ish clothes or Wizard clothing (robes and hats) when they go > to Kings Crossing? > > In the first 3 books I got the impression that they wore styles that > would be acceptable in the Muggle world. However, in GoF, Arthur > seems as though he never dresses in Muggle-wear. > > :-) Milz Maybe Molly's robes can pass for a Muggle overcoat or 3/4 length jacket. If she wore anything that seems too wizardy, Vernon Dursely would have made some kind of remark about it. I think he only described her as "plump with a lot of children". I don't know what to make of Arthur. His robes are described as being green in CoS. But maybe they too can pass as a Muggle overcoat. OR maybe the Ministry has wizards running around King's Crossing on August 31 every year, erasing Muggle memories so that wizards and witches don't have to dress as Muggles. ~Demelza From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 17:37:35 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:37:35 -0000 Subject: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience Message-ID: <93q3ov+i1vc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9158 It took me two readings and two listenings to catch this (CoS ch. 13, 232/US): [Harry:] "I wouldn't mind knowing how Riddle got an award for special services to Hogwarts either." "Could've been anything," said Ron. "Maybe he got thirty O.W.L.s or saved a teacher from the giant squid. Maybe he murdered Myrtle; that would've done everyone a favor. . . . " :-o Cue Twilight Zone theme! Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 17:50:05 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:50:05 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93q2sh+a5bp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93q4gd+mpuh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9159 Demelza wrote: >(penny wrote:) > Don't have my books in front of me at the moment (and am too lazy at > > the moment to retrieve them), but wasn't Percy described as > "apopletic > > with rage" at the twins' antics regarding Ginny? > > I couldn't find that in the American version of CoS, though I shall > look again. It's on p. 185 (ch 11). > CoS Ch. 16 Amer > "It was probably the worst say of Harry's entire life. He, Ron, Fred > and George sat together in a corner of the Gryffindor common room > unable to say anything to each other. Percy wasn't there. He had gone > to send an owl to Mr. and Mrs. Weasley, then shut himself up in his > dormitory." > > So his sister is gone and could be dead or alive. His brothers sitting > together in shock. And he's shut away in his dormitory? The same guy, > who a few chapters before scolds Ron for not caring about how upset > Ginny is, locks himself up in his dormitory while his brothers are > clearly upset over Ginny's disappearance. I agree with your assessment that Percy creates a lot of his own problems, but I think the above passage is very sympathetic. Ron, Fred and George's way of dealing with their shock and grief is to sit in the common room; Percy's way is to shut himself in his room. I didn't at all get the sense that he was any less upset than the others. Families have their internal dynamics that require different members to fulfill different roles: rulemaker, rulebreaker, scapegoat, "quiet/good one," clown, etc. . . . Percy fills his role because it suits his personality, but also because it suits the whole family to have one member who's a bit too serious and full of himself. Hoo boy, I'd better calm down or I'm going to be dragging the entire bunch in for family therapy! Really, they're pretty healthy all in all, wouldn't you say? It seems painfully likely to me that one of the Weasleys is a goner, if only because there are so many of them and Harry loves them so much (as do we). But what would be far worse is if one of them went over to Voldemort's side. Whenever I read a post suggesting that Ron will do so I feel a little sick to my stomach. (Now WHO did I say needs therapy?) Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From vderark at bccs.org Sat Jan 13 18:23:55 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:23:55 -0000 Subject: Wizard Wear/Wizarding culture In-Reply-To: <93q39q+bhp9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93q6fr+t1i0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9160 re: what Molly and Arthur wear on their trips to Kings Cross: When I first read HP, I assumed that the robes they wore were INSTEAD of any kind of Muggle clothing. I still read it that way, especially in light of Archie's fondness for breeze under his robes and Herry and Ron asking Hermione to leave the railway compartment so they could change. But the pictures we've seen--the GrandPre drawings, the commercial/calendar art, and the pictures from the film set--often show robes OVER pants and a shirt or other Muggle clothes. I think that visually this just works a lot better in many cases. So if we take the pictures as an indication (yes, I know they aren't canon) we might assume that witches and wizards dress in clothing similar to Muggle clothing with a robe over. The Muggle-ish clothing wizards wear is brighter in color and of a very different style, probably, such as Fudge's bottle-green suit or the folks Vernon saw on his way to work, but passable. It might draw glances, in other words, but still be just within the range of normal to a Muggle. So what about Archie? I'd say that many wizarding folk do dress in nothing but robes, especially those who have no dealings with the Muggle world. This does make some sense too if you look at Wizarding culture in its entirety. It is essentially a medieval culture, based on a medieval world-life view. That's when magic still held credence in our civilization. The Renaissance scrubbed our minds of that nonsense and replaced it with good, solid, experimetnally provable science. This hasn't happened to our counterparts in the Wizarding World, however. They are still in the middle ages in many ways, although they do have many of the trappings of modern society, copied and made to work not with technology and science but with magic spells. Like the Knight Bus and the Wizarding Wireless, these things do not fit exactly or work the same. They are copies based on what they see to meet the same basic needs of society--mass trasit, mass communications-- although they do not understand the scientific concepts behind the Muggle things they copy. The Knight Bus carries passengers like a bus but does so not with a gasoline-powered engine but with magic, and the trees and houses jump out of the way. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which should probably have a page talking about this...hmmm... http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 18:33:45 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:33:45 -0000 Subject: Why I am not a RL/SB shipper Message-ID: <93q729+kuvn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9161 I just read "Harry Has 2 Godfathers" and laughed myself sick, and I've had some sympathy for the Remus/Sirius pairing before, but now I'm thinking about it seriously and you know, it would just be too tragic for words. Imagine poor Sirius in Azkaban--not only has he just gotten his best friend murdered & his godson orphaned, not only has he been framed and sent without trial to the most horrible prison imaginable 'til he dies, not only will he sound like a complete nutter if he even tries to prove his innocence, not only is he separated forever from the love of his life, but on top of all that, he has to live with the knowledge that said love now hates his guts and thinks he's a murdering, betraying Dark Wizard bastard. And poor Remus has to live with the belief that the love of his life has turned out to be a murdering, betraying . . . you get the point. The whole thing is just too sad to contemplate. I think we'd better just make them friends, that's sad enough. BTW what IS it with Azkaban? The wizarding world needs prison reform even worse than the USA. I know it's not easy to keep wizards in prison, but can't they find a more humane way? Amy Z -------------------------------------------------------- "Ha, ha, ha," said Hermione sarcastically. "Goblins don't need protection. Haven't you been listening to what Professor Binns has been telling us about goblin rebellions?" "No," said Harry and Ron together. --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire --------------------------------------------------------- From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Sat Jan 13 18:08:34 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:08:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] yet more evidence of Ron's prescience References: <93q3ov+i1vc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6099A1.D492FC1@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9162 Yes, this is another example which fits the theory that Ron is actually a seer but doesn't realize it. He has made a number of offhand remarks that actually turn out to be true. (Has Steve started a list of them in the Lexicon???) The other one that springs to mind is that Harry will have an unexpected windfall. Steve or anyone else? Do we have a list of Ron's true "predictions" anywhere? He's doing a lot better than Prof. Trelawney. Peg Amy wrote: > It took me two readings and two listenings to catch this (CoS ch. 13, > 232/US): > > [Harry:] "I wouldn't mind knowing how Riddle got an award for special > services to Hogwarts either." > "Could've been anything," said Ron. "Maybe he got thirty > O.W.L.s or saved a teacher from the giant squid. Maybe he murdered > Myrtle; that would've done everyone a favor. . . . " > > :-o > > Cue Twilight Zone theme! > > Amy Z > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. > --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 18:44:53 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:44:53 -0000 Subject: Wizard Wear/Wizarding culture In-Reply-To: <93q6fr+t1i0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93q7n5+1ghe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9163 Steve wrote: > This does make some sense too if you look at Wizarding culture in its > entirety. It is essentially a medieval culture, based on a medieval > world-life view. That's when magic still held credence in our > civilization. The Renaissance scrubbed our minds of that nonsense and > replaced it with good, solid, experimetnally provable science. This > hasn't happened to our counterparts in the Wizarding World, however. > They are still in the middle ages in many ways, although they do have > many of the trappings of modern society, copied and made to work not > with technology and science but with magic spells. Like the Knight > Bus and the Wizarding Wireless, these things do not fit exactly or > work the same. They are copies based on what they see to meet the > same basic needs of society--mass trasit, mass communications-- > although they do not understand the scientific concepts behind the > Muggle things they copy. I think it's the other way around, for the most part. Muggles have found all sorts of ways to cope with the inability to do magic (as AW says and as you quote in the lexicon--"ingenious, really . . ."). This is not only funny and more sympathetic to the wizarding world, but it fits with the way history has really gone. For centuries we Muggles have dreamed and written about magical/science fictional/etc. ways to transport ourselves over great distances quickly, talk to people who are far away, create instant images, fly, travel back in time, create light and heat instantly, etc. Some of those things we have managed to bring into being through technology in just the past couple hundred years: photography, telephones, electric power, airplanes. But we're still trying to catch up with the wizards, who have always known how to do these things and more! Amy Z who, as you may guess from the volume of my posting, REALLY needs to be doing work right now instead of having fun on HPforGU ----------------------------------------------------------------- "And some old witch in Bath had a book that you could *never stop reading*! You just had to wander around with your nose in it, trying to do everything one-handed." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ----------------------------------------------------------------- From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Jan 13 18:46:29 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:46:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Azkaban References: <93q729+kuvn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008901c07d91$282ad700$242d07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9164 > BTW what IS it with Azkaban? The wizarding world needs prison reform > even worse than the USA. I know it's not easy to keep wizards in > prison, but can't they find a more humane way? > Amy Z I always kind fo assumed - or at least hoped - that there was Azkaban for the really bad cases and more human prisons for your everyday criminal wizard. But Hagrid's imprisonment there just because they *assumed* he had something to do with the Chamber shows that there isn't. After the whole Volemort-Time they obviously go for a better-save-than-sorry policy. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 18:56:40 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:56:40 -0000 Subject: Prof. Trelawney's third correct prediction? Message-ID: <93q8d8+uk5f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9165 The 13-at-dinner prediction. Ron or Harry (guess which one) should die before Dumbledore, Snape, or any of the others, according to Prof. T. (ch. 11 PoA, p. 230 US) Hope not, but that one really felt like a foreshadowing to me. Despite the complete absence of mad axe-men. Amy Z. ----------------------------------------------------------------- "Very haunted up here, isn't it?" said Ron, with the air of one commenting on the weather. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ----------------------------------------------------------------- From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 13 18:29:42 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 18:29:42 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] yet more evidence of Ron's prescience References: <93q3ov+i1vc@eGroups.com> <3A6099A1.D492FC1@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <004001c07d8e$cc9dde20$5c3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9166 Peg Kerr said: <<>> This is what I have so far in the (draft) Ron Weasley FAQ, taken from discussions here (so there may be other examples):- *** Is Ron a seer? Some of Ron's comments have been interpreted as a demonstration of possible psychic potential. Meg noted, for example, that in Chapter 13 of CoS, when Ron, Harry, and Hermione are trying to figure out how Tom Riddle earned an award for special services to the school, Ron says, "Maybe he murdered Myrtle." This, of course, turns out to be true. (e-12/12/00, "Re: Character summary: Professor Trelawney"). Paul Smitster brought attention to Ron's potential in Divination. When Ron read's Harry's tea leaves in PoA he predicted "a windfall, unexpected gold". Sister ML thought this could be another example of the theory that Ron is a seer who doesn't realise his own abilities: Harry did get a windfall (and gold) the next year, when, in GoF, he "won" 1000 Galleons for the Triwizard Tournament. Catlady came up with an even earlier windfall: the leprechaun gold that Ron had poured on him. Pippin then pointed out that Harry had had a windfall even sooner than that: the Firebolt. Dave H noted that Ron had "predicted" that Harry would work for the MoM, whilst Coleen (JusDucky) thought JKR had said that someone unlikely would become a teacher at Hogwarts and suggested that Ron might take Trelawney's place. Brandgwen imagined that under Professor Weasley's watchful eye, the students might spend the Divination lessons seeing who could "lob the crystal balls and tea cups . furthest out the window". (e-12/11/00 onwards, "Talons & Tealeaves" thread) Could Ron develop a talent for precognition to give him that special 'edge' he needs? *** Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From ABoyko at starchoice.com Sat Jan 13 19:15:25 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:15:25 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard Wear/Wizarding culture Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE5A@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9167 > -----Original Message----- > From: Amy [SMTP:aiz24 at hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 2:45 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizard Wear/Wizarding culture > > I think it's the other way around, for the most part. Muggles have > found all sorts of ways to cope with the inability to do magic (as AW > says and as you quote in the lexicon--"ingenious, really . . ."). > This is not only funny and more sympathetic to the wizarding world, > but it fits with the way history has really gone. > I think a lot of people are on this list partly because we're totally enamored of the wizarding world and wish we had Floo powder and wands too. I know I want some magic. My Muggle job is answering customer service calls for Canada's premiere satellite TV service. On days like today, where I'm taking calls from customers who couldn't aim a satellite dish if their life depended on it, sometimes I think technology has become too available. They seem to think I have some magic Alignment Powder hanging around! Angela From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 13 19:24:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:24:36 -0000 Subject: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience In-Reply-To: <004001c07d8e$cc9dde20$5c3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <93qa1k+2mf0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9168 To add to FAQ: When he and Harry make up their star charts, Ron "predicts" that Harry will get stabbed in the back by someone he thought was a friend. His prediction, if not his timing, is correct. Of course, he also predicts that he, Ron, will drown and get trampled by a rampaging hippogriff. I think it's fair to say that at most one of those things will happen. (He does get submerged in the lake for an hour...hmmm.) Ah, the joy of divination: you can pay attentin to the things that come true and ignore the ones that don't. Amy Z. ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We didn't give it to him because he's a Muggle!" said Fred indignantly. "No, we gave it to him because he's a great bullying git," said George. "Isn't he, Harry?" "Yeah, he is, Mr. Weasley," said Harry earnestly. --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ------------------------------------------------------------------- From vderark at bccs.org Sat Jan 13 19:24:52 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 19:24:52 -0000 Subject: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience In-Reply-To: <3A6099A1.D492FC1@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <93qa24+p2sr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9169 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > Yes, this is another example which fits the theory that Ron is actually a > seer but doesn't realize it. He has made a number of offhand remarks > that actually turn out to be true. (Has Steve started a list of them in > the Lexicon???) No, I don't. I never thought of it. I started a page for Harry's dreams which I linked to the Divination page, so there's a place for a "Ron as Seer" page. I'll put it on my to-do list. It looks like Neil has a wonderful start on such a page already, of course, and that's for the FAQ. I wish I could just link to that! One of these days we'll have this all cross linked and elegantly presented... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Jan 14 08:15:14 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:15:14 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Religion and Harry and Happy Birthday to Heidi References: <003a01c07bf3$34ea17c0$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> <006d01c07c82$6cba1120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A600031.327C27EA@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <004801c07e02$2123c2c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9170 > Hi, Mike. Thanks for letting the list know about this article. May I forward > your message to a friend of mine who is an Inklings Scholar? An Inklings Scholar? But of course. Twould be an honor, my preciouss. That's what *I* used to dream of becoming ... before ... fore ... I met Not a tame kitty! HEY, Abe baby, comere! Thersha a inshkling lollard, no a shrinking coller, no-no-no, I mean it's a Fats Waller Hollaring bout lynching monopods. That coulda been me, baby. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who *really* has to get to work on his sermon, since he can''t exactly read *this* in church tomorrow ... ) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sun Jan 14 08:15:32 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:15:32 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Howabout a Swiss Bash? References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <019c01c07cbc$d17d0060$232c07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <004901c07e02$2b4a5520$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9171 > Yes, I'm from southern Germany (and I hate the comment "Well, Franconians > are people, too, right?" Just what have those guys against us? bwaahahaaa) There, there dearie. My Swiss friends assure me that if people really can't help being German, at least they can try to come from the Southern part ... (Just don't go all bayerisch on me, ne?) ;-) BTW, I've heard that Berlin has one of the most active HP scenes going--they were the folks behind the unauthorized translation project. Do you know any of that crew?? > Try "Sprechender Hut" at e-groups. Shortly after I joined in December there > was quite a fight and the Moderator handed her job over to another person, > so it's still a bit quiet but it's really nice and friendly now. > > Anyway, the more we are, the better it is . And we can sure get > discussions going if only someone starts with something interesting, so new > input is always great! Sounds interesting! I happen to be drowning in work just now, but as soon as thing limber up a little, I'd like to get involved. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who'd like to stampede to bed, but has a sermon to write. ) http://profiles.yahoo.com/aberforths_goat From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 13 20:14:58 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 12:14:58 -0800 Subject: Many replies Message-ID: <3A60B741.2F01E739@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9172 Belated Happy Birthday, Heidi. The next one is off-topic and not a reply: the high-rise office building (new, boasted, expensive) that I work in caught fire yesterday. What I know from being there is that the fire alarm went off, everyone evacuated the building, we stood outside in the rain for two-some hours, at first watching black smoke issue from the roof and many many many fire trucks arrive, and then watching there be no more smoke, and at the time that they finally let us back in the building, they also let us go home early for the three-day weekend. The rest of my knowledge comes from KFWB newsradio (I remembered to bring my Walkclone with me when I exited, altho' not my jacket and umbrella) (www.kfwb.com local headlines) which said the fire was on the 27th floor and burned up the microwave communication equipment that we use for computer networks with far-flung sites and vehicles. It is a 26-story building, and the so-called 27th floor is shown on maps as 'mechanical area' altho' I admit it is underneath the helipad. Speaking of the helipad, when the building was new and the stairwells were not yet fixed to set off fire alarms, my friend Jim made me walk up to the roof with him and see the view, which on a clear day is like 100 miles in each direction. Back to topic. milz wrote: I always got the impression that Avery was one of them too. Is one of them Death Eaters, or Longbottom torturers? He was in the graveyard DE circle (he was the one who, consumed with guilt/fear over his disloyalty, broke the circle to fling himself at V's feet grovelling apologies, for which V gave him Cruciatis). This shows that he was a DE but not (at least, no longer) in Azkaban with the Lestranges. The things JKR does with names, I have been thinking that 'Avery' was chosen to sound like 'avarice', so I gave him the front names Cassius Richmond (Cash Rich) which makes the initials C. R. Avery, which is like 'crave', but then I thought of 'aviary' -- the meaning of 'avery' would be quite different if the front name was Birdie. Storm wrote the character summary of Lucius. > Name: Lucius - 'Lucifer', also suggests to me light (from Latin, Lux) which would seem, if intended, to be ironic. As people have pointed out, 'Lucifer' also from 'lux', because it means light-bearer (the same way that a nuciferous tree bears nuts). Light-bearer / Lucifer was a Latin name for the Morning Star (the world is full of cosmologies in which the Morning Star brings the day rather than merely signalling it), and was applied to the God of Evil (itself a concept borrowed from Zoroastrianism, the state religion of the Persians who conquered Babylon and let the Judaeans go home) based on the theory that IIRC Isaiah's verse "Oh, Morning Star, how thou hast fallen" referred to the God of Evil being a Fallen Angel, when actually it referred to the Emperor of Babylon being defeated by the Persians -- Morning Star was a poetic term of flattery which his courtiers had called him. There are Web pages out there claiming that the full name of the Emperor Severus was Lucius Septimus Severus, which would be a Clue of some kind if we met another DE named Septimus, and claiming that King Arthur warred with Emperor Lucius of Rome. > Good Qualities - None (I haven't even come across any fan-fiction writers who have been able to invent any - maybe I'm not widely enough read ) It seems to be generally agreed that he is an elegant dresser, and various people have also assigned him skill at fencing, horse riding, and Quidditch playing (that last in his younger days). > 1. Does Lucius have any good qualities? It is possible that he loves his child (in his own twisted way) and that he and his wife are each other's best friends, with the same values and goals and sense of humor. > 2. What does Lucius want? - to be Voldemort's lieutenant or to be Voldemort? To use V's power to gain his own ends, which have a lot to do with beating up on people and being fawned on. > 4. What does Lucius do with his days? Surely plotting to overthrow the world as we know it can only fill in so much time. Possibly managing the Malfoy family fortune (investing the money part and collecting rents for the land part and even being CEO of family-owned businesses located on the land) is a full-time job. > 5. Did Snape and Malfoy ever have a fling? Read my latest story in this egroup's files/fanfic/fanfic by catlady for the answer. Amy Z wrote: Here's the problem: Ginny says flat out that she can remember when Bill went to Hogwarts: "I've looked forward to coming to Hogwarts ever since B-Bill came and n-now I'll have to leave . . ." (CoS 323 in US ed, chapter 17). My best theory on this is it is a typo (like the scene in GoF where Fudge is speaking, but one place says 'Crouch' instead of 'Fudge'): she really SAID: ever since PERCY came. Amanda wrote: It must [magic], for a guy to willingly undergo the nine months of total discomfort, shapelessness, sleeplessness, sickness, and self-image erosion we call the joy of pregnancy.... Who said he was WILLING? Do you think the wizarding folk have magic to reduce (even eliminate) the discomfort, sleeplessness, and sickness? That they have magic to go through pregnancy looking like Demi Moore? Or that they scrupulously avoid all such magic on the theory that it would harm the fetus? wrote: Why was Snape so startled when Harry told Cornelius Fudge that Lucius Malfoy was a death eater? In my story, Snape had managed to fool himself into believing Lucius's claim of having been bewitched by V and therefore was shocked to learn that Lucius is still a loyal DE. Dinah wrote: Although I had already thought of a Colin/Ginny pairing I just think they wouldn't get to see much of Harry because he'd be running screaming out of the room. OTOH, Harry might be so pleased to see them with their faces glued together instead of pestering HIM, that he'd give them a really expensive engagement present, like a trip to Hawaii. Amy Z wrote: I think it's the other way around, for the most part. Muggles have found all sorts of ways to cope with the inability to do magic. This is not only funny and more sympathetic to the wizarding world, but it fits with the way history has really gone. In my universe, that was true for centuries (e.g. my theory on the hot and cold running water and flush toilets at Hogwarts is that the wizarding folk have had modern plumbing since Atlantis, and the Minoans, Romans, and Thomas Crapper were all just trying to imitate what they had seen as guests in wizarding houses), but at some point the Muggles got ahead in the invention race, and since then the wizarding folk have been imitating *us*. There's room for a lot of discussion over *when* the Muggles got ahead on inventions. I have a conspiracy theorist friend who claims that all technology from the invention of the transistor on was not invented by humans, but rather copied from the UFOs at Area 51. He refuses to believe my explanations that copying electronic devices from broken 'black boxes' that one has found is Much Harder than inventing an electronic science and technology by starting by discovering the basic principles.... But I suppose an anti-Muggle theorist could claim that it was only because of help from UFOs that Muggles got to inventing faster than wizard folks. In particular, telephones: JKR hasn't shown us any way for wizard folk to speak at a distance, other than physically sticking their head up out of a fire. Many fanfic writers (I among them) have found a need to invent some magical version of a telephone for our plots to work.... Angela wrote: My Muggle job is answering customer service calls for Canada's premiere satellite TV service. On days like today, where I'm taking calls from customers who couldn't aim a satellite dish if their life depended on it, sometimes I think technology has become too available. They seem to think I have some magic Alignment Powder hanging around! The wizarding world has enough people who aren't very good at doing their magic for KWIKSPEL to be profitable. To whom do wizards and witches call for customer service? -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Jan 13 20:14:36 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:14:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Howabout a Swiss Bash? References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <019c01c07cbc$d17d0060$232c07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c07e02$2b4a5520$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <00db01c07d9d$743bfdc0$242d07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9173 > BTW, I've heard that Berlin has one of the most active HP scenes going--they > were the folks behind the unauthorized translation project. Do you know any > of that crew?? Nope, I don't think so. But there's always http://www.hp-fc.de Those girls are pretty active and even wrote a book about their inofficial fanclub. And the addy of the Mailinggroup is http://www.egroups.com/group/Sprechender-Hut > I happen to be drowning in work just now, but as soon as thing limber up a little, I'd like to get involved. Reading your first post I fear that you are taking the word "drowning" a little bit too literary. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Jan 13 20:20:33 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:20:33 +0100 Subject: Fw: [WitchesThree] Fw: Humor How to be an Evil Cultist(or Wizard) Message-ID: <00e301c07d9e$4939bf80$242d07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9174 This seems like something Voldemort or Lucius Malfoy probably have hanging over there beds and know it by heart ~ Dinah ~ > > Recently, the Society For Evil Overlords has noticed a regrettable > decline in the availability and quality of priests, fanatical henchmen, > evil and willing sacrificial victims. We wish to correct this growing > problem by submitting the following general guidelines for Cultists. > > > > 1. Pick one faith and stay with it. Dilettantism is the mark of the > amateur. > > > > 2. Avoid needless embarrassment. Practice the correct pronunciation of > your deity's name in the privacy of your own room before chanting it in > public. Flash cards are often helpful. > > > > 3. Never invoke anything bigger than your head or anything you can't > banish. > > > > 4. Avoid all cabalistic jewelry over ten pounds in weight it attracts > unwelcome attention from tourists, policemen, various supernatural > creatures, and can be downright dangerous during thunderstorms. > > > > 5. Citronella candles may not be used in rituals. I cannot stress this > enough. Pastel-colored candles in the shape of cute animals are like > beacons to the Powers of Darkness. > > > > 6. Always keep your kit with you: candles, chalk, incense, silver knife, > Thuggee cord, service revolver, garlic, Yellow Sign, cabfare, condoms, and > change. > > > > 7. NEVER be the cultist that goes to rough up the hero(es). Ransacking > hotel rooms is probably safe, but going 'round to beat up the good guys is a > sure route to the bottom of the Thames. > > > > 8. When the Black Mass goes awry, stay away from the Evil Priest. Enraged > demons always go for the pompous. > > > > 9. Don't gloat. > > > > 10. If you can't resist gloating, don't reveal your plans. > > > > 11. If you do gloat and reveal your plans, don't leave the hero(es) to die > slowly. They don't. > > > > 12. If you gloat, reveal your plans, and leave the hero(es) to die slowly, > don't have the audacity to look surprised when they turn up at the last > moment to foil your evil plot. > > > > 13.The hero (or heroes) will always show up at the last possible moment to > foil your plans. With this in mind, start half an hour early they hate > that. > > > > 14.Plan ahead by selecting ceremonial robes that are easy to run in while > still affording ample concealment. > > > > 15.Never screw anything whose genetic structure you are not absolutely > comfortable with. > > > > 16.Never admit to screwing anything whose genetic structure you are not > absolutely comfortable with. > > > > 17.When a religious artifact begins emitting light, CLOSE YOUR EYES. > Thousands of cultists could be saved every year if they'd just remember this > simple safety tip. > > > > 18.When mutilating cattle, avoid the ones with testicles. > > > > 19.During ritual sacrificing, taking bits home for later is now generally > considered "bad form." > > > > 20.Blood tests are now required for all sacrificial victims before the > ritual. The effects of HIV+ offerings on the average malefic deity have > never been witnessed by anyone living, or even intact. > > > > 21.Contrary to historical belief, drugs and invocations do not mix. When > the shit comes down, it is vitally necessary to be able to discern between > the gibbering monstrosity to throw the holy water on and the gibbering > monstrosity that will fade away after a few hours, some B-complex, and a > good hot bath. > > > > 22.Never play strip Tarot. > > > > 23.Piety and belief are powerful things, and few forces in nature can > stand against one who is true to his faith, his God, and his own soul. > However, it is also true that the Gods tend to side with the heaviest > artillery, so be prepared to change sides at the drop of a hat. > > > > 24.For those situations where a fresh, living sacrifice is just not > feasible (or even possible), the lower ranks of demons can be fooled by > microwaving a previously-frozen chunk of ex-victim and cleverly jiggling it. > However, a mock victim sculpted from Spam (tm) is strictly out. ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 13 20:32:59 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:32:59 -0000 Subject: Fanfic Recommendations? Message-ID: <93qe1r+s5rq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9175 Is anyone making a File of all the Fanfic Recommendations, and fanfic by list members, and posting it in the Files section of this egroup or one of the related egroups? From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sat Jan 13 20:57:41 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:57:41 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93q4gd+mpuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93qfg5+u9ri@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9176 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > It seems painfully likely to me that one of the Weasleys is a goner, > if only because there are so many of them and Harry loves them so much > (as do we). But what would be far worse is if one of them went over > to Voldemort's side. Whenever I read a post suggesting that Ron will > do so I feel a little sick to my stomach. (Now WHO did I say needs > therapy?) Don't forget, the Weasleys are all Griffindors. According to PS only Slytherins ever become dark wizards although, are we ever told which house Pettigrew was in? Or Sirius? Surely Sirius was a Griffindor but Hagrid was quite adamant that only Slytherins had ever become dark wizards while he knew (incorrectly) that Sirius was a bad guy. Dai (there's a weird light flashing on my computer and I don't know what it means. I havn't noticed it before) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 20:58:09 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:58:09 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93q4gd+mpuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93qfh1+5qne@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9177 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > CoS Ch. 16 Amer > I agree with your assessment that Percy creates a lot of his own > problems, but I think the above passage is very sympathetic. Ron, > Fred and George's way of dealing with their shock and grief is to sit > in the common room; Percy's way is to shut himself in his room. I > didn't at all get the sense that he was any less upset than the > others. I agree with you that they seem to have different ways of dealing with their grief, but it is telling that he chooses to deal with it alone, while the rest of the family is together. He chooses to be alone quite a lot. I'm not saying that means he'll be against his family in the end, just that his tendency to isolate himself makes him vulnerable. > It seems painfully likely to me that one of the Weasleys is a goner, > if only because there are so many of them and Harry loves them so much > (as do we). But what would be far worse is if one of them went over > to Voldemort's side. Whenever I read a post suggesting that Ron will > do so I feel a little sick to my stomach. (Now WHO did I say needs > therapy?) Don't worry Amy, when I see that suggestion I get queasy too. And teary-eyed. But I trust JKR to know her character. She has not painted Ron as a traitor. She's painted him as a young Sirius, who would die for his friends rather than let anything happen to them. That said, I'd be flat devastated if he died. Man, do you have a therapist in mind, because maybe we could share a session. Heck - anybody else want in? Maybe we could get group-rates! Wiping an odd bit of moisture from my eye, kimberly ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. > --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Jan 13 21:12:02 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 08:12:02 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (Pro-)HP Sermon References: <93poj0+bb0a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b801c07da5$7952f6d0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9178 I liked it. While it can't hurt that it was pro-HP, I think the main reason was that I agree with their values, as shown by the arguments in that page. Simon. > I came across this sermon on the web and thought others might find it > interesting also. I notice it's filed under "recent" so the exact > address might not last long. > > http://www.uureston.org/minister/sermons/recent/hpotter.htm > > Amy Z From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 13 21:02:01 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:02:01 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fanfic Recommendations? References: <93qe1r+s5rq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006001c07da4$13b7e020$6b3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9179 Catlady said: > Is anyone making a File of all the Fanfic Recommendations, and fanfic > by list members, and posting it in the Files section of this egroup > or one of the related egroups? Good thought. Fanfiction is one of the FAQ topics (Penny is doing it), but there isn't a draft of it as yet. There is also some fanfic by club members in the files area (including some of Catlady's), but not recommendations as such. I've created a Fanfiction table in the Database area of the club, so anyone can add their favourites. This will make it easier to see what's worth reading (in the humble opinion of our members) without having to plough through old messages. I haven't added anything myself, although there are several excellent fanfics that get mentioned here often . Please, everyone, add your faves to the list. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 13 21:48:27 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 16:48:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Scabbers/Wormtail: What Kind of Rat Am I? References: <92hhil+5re1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001201c07daa$908c4cc0$5cc64b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 9180 I've always pictured Scabbers as a sort of tame white lab rat, the kind we ran through mazes in back in introductory psych class. But re-reading Chap 33 in GoF, where Voldemort describes the return of Wormtail: "He sought me in the country where it had been long rumored that I'd been hiding...helped, of course, by the rats he met along the way. Wormtail has a curious affinity with rats...His filthy little friends told him there was a place deep in the Albanian forest...where small animals like themselves had met death by a dark shadow that possessed them." I doubt that Albania is overrun with ferral lab rats. Did Pettigrew change into a wild rat? Do Wizard kids keep wild rats as pets? Or as a magic white rat, is Pettigrew still able to converse with wild rats (which would otherwise surely kill him - rats are particularly vicious against rats of different species). - CMC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 13 22:33:28 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:33:28 -0000 Subject: Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <93oqik+e9jl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ql3o+okb1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9181 "Oh, no. Disney'd cast it like this; "-Weasley twins; Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen (did I mention that in this version the twins are in the same year as Harry? And aren't related to Ron? Oh, yeah, they're girls, too)" Has anyone seen the movie "Double Bubble Toil and Trouble"? (Or something like that.) It features the Olsen twins and usually comes on around Halloween (btw, can anyone tell me why the British ed. puts an appostrophy in the word- Hallowe'en?). In it the twins try to retrieve a moonstone (which has magic powers) from their evil witch aunt so that they can save their other aunt who is trapped in a mirror. (They'd fit right in to PS/SS (I'm kidding).) I really don't have much against Disney. This however is not to say that I wish they were making the movie- I don't. Scott Hmmm, you forgot to mention that Cinderella's castle would be trasformed into Hogwarts ala the Magic Kingdom. From mayacrab at netvision.net.il Sat Jan 13 22:42:32 2001 From: mayacrab at netvision.net.il (Maya Crabtree) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:42:32 +0200 Subject: Goodbye! Message-ID: <000301c07db2$2c28dca0$e7a2003e@default> No: HPFGUIDX 9182 So that's it then. I'll be going to the army tomorrow (actually, in 6 hours I have to get up). Most of you know all about it already, for the rest - I'm starting that 3 months course, in the Intelligence Force. Actual Enlistment 3rd of April. I am just too tired to write anything else. I will be coming home every weekend, so please don't stop writing (or those of you who don't -you're welcome to keep me upstated on what's going on with you) - I promise to reply to all e-mail , in the weekend.... Byebye! Maya From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Jan 13 23:05:28 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:05:28 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Azkaban In-Reply-To: <008901c07d91$282ad700$242d07d5@oemcomputer> References: <93q729+kuvn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010113150309.00b43100@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9183 At 07:46 PM 1/13/01 +0100, Dinah wrote: >I always kind fo assumed - or at least hoped - that there was Azkaban for >the really bad cases and more human prisons for your everyday criminal >wizard. But Hagrid's imprisonment there just because they *assumed* he had >something to do with the Chamber shows that there isn't. After the whole >Volemort-Time they obviously go for a better-save-than-sorry policy. They also obviously have a medieval legal system, since they are throwing people like Sirius in prison without a trial. I just had a horrible thought -- What if Sirius' name is cleared, but then he gets busted for being an unregistered animagus?? -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Jan 13 23:21:20 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 15:21:20 -0800 Subject: LA-Orange County? In-Reply-To: <004801c07e02$2123c2c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> References: <003a01c07bf3$34ea17c0$1c2d07d5@oemcomputer> <006d01c07c82$6cba1120$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A600031.327C27EA@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010113152001.02d72890@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9184 Are there any HP fans in the Los Angeles-Orange County-San Diego region who would be interested in forming a local group for get-togethers parties, etc.? -- Dave From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 13 23:17:09 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 17:17:09 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? References: <93ql3o+okb1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A60E1F5.F142C648@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9185 Scott wrote: > (btw, can anyone tell me why the British ed. puts > an appostrophy in the word- Hallowe'en?). Because it is actually a contraction. Originally All Hallows Eve, or Evening. "e'en" is a contraction of "even," an archaic form of eve or evening. The use of the apostrophe is merely a bit more conservative way to spell it. --Amanda "I told you I was a font of useless trivia" From eccleston at clara.co.uk Sat Jan 13 23:19:32 2001 From: eccleston at clara.co.uk (eccleston at clara.co.uk) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:19:32 -0000 Subject: Just arrived & under pressure from the kids about the next book... Message-ID: <93qnq4+sln1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9186 Harry Potter arrived courtesy of Santa in my houeshold this Christmas & I'm under considerable pressure from my kids to tell them when the next book arrives. I'm sure you know. Having now read them my self (and finding myself surprisingly hooked) I'm wondering where the story line is going. Harry's older, the storyline is a bit darker and adolescence has set in, what's the consensus? From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 13 23:29:41 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:29:41 -0000 Subject: Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics In-Reply-To: <93qfg5+u9ri@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93qod5+i3iu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9187 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > Don't forget, the Weasleys are all Gryffindors. According to PS > only Slytherins ever become dark wizards although, are we ever told > which house Pettigrew was in? Or Sirius? Surely Sirius was a > Gryffindor but Hagrid was quite adamant that only Slytherins had > ever become dark wizards while he knew (incorrectly) that Sirius > was a bad guy. I think the consensus is that the meaning of those facts is NOT that only Slytherins become dark wizards, NOT that all Slytherins are evil, but RATHER than Hagrid tends to exagerate and what he says cannot always be trusted. From duo at dangerous-minds.com Sun Jan 14 00:13:26 2001 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 08:13:26 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Azkaban In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010113150309.00b43100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9188 >At 07:46 PM 1/13/01 +0100, Dinah wrote: >>I always kind fo assumed - or at least hoped - that there was Azkaban for >>the really bad cases and more human prisons for your everyday criminal >>wizard. But Hagrid's imprisonment there just because they *assumed* he had >>something to do with the Chamber shows that there isn't. After the whole >>Volemort-Time they obviously go for a better-save-than-sorry policy. And Dave replied: >They also obviously have a medieval legal system, since they are throwing >people like Sirius in prison without a trial. However this apparently was a recent development. There was the Bartemius Crouch Jr. trial shown at one point, as well as the Karkaroff trial. >I just had a horrible thought -- What if Sirius' name is cleared, but then >he gets busted for being an unregistered animagus?? We're never really told what the penalty is for being an unregistered animagus is... maybe it's considerably lighter than being thrown into Azkaban. I'm thinking it's more along the lines of the Underage Wizarding Act violations or the Muggle Protection Act violations. Nathan From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 14 00:03:32 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:03:32 -0000 Subject: Scabbers/Wormtail: What Kind of Rat Am I? In-Reply-To: <001201c07daa$908c4cc0$5cc64b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <93qqck+ik5v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9189 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > I've always pictured Scabbers as a sort of tame white lab rat, the > kind we ran through mazes in back in introductory psych class. So did I, until the x-th time I heard Jim Dale reading some scene or other.... As for Scabbers, here's a quote from PoA (the revelations in the Shrieking Shack): "for a moment, Scabbers was frozen in midair, his small gray form twisting madly" Earlier in PoA, in the Magical Menagerie shop on Diagon Alley, where Ron buys rat tonic and Hermione buys Crookshanks, the clever rats showing off in a communal cage on the counter are described as black rats. CoS: At the Burrow: "Ron's magic wand was lying on top of a fish tank full of frog spawn on the windowsill, next to his fat gray rat, Scabbers, who was snoozing in a patch of sun." SS/PS: Harry meets Ron at King's Cross station: "Ron reached inside his jacket and pulled out a fat gray rat" That reminds me: what is the phrase "King's X" and does it have anything to do with King's Cross station? From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 00:05:37 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:05:37 -0000 Subject: New therapy specialization (was Percy and Weasley Family Dynamics) In-Reply-To: <93qfh1+5qne@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93qqgi+2ve6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9190 Man, do you have a > therapist in mind, because maybe we could share a session. Heck - > anybody else want in? Maybe we could get group-rates! > I think there is a serious market for a new area of specialization: HP therapy. It could help people suffering from: -addiction -withdrawal -disassociation from the non-HP world -post-traumatic stress disorder (there's going to be a high incidence of this if beloved characters start dying and/or turning into dark wizards) -love affairs with fictional characters -love affairs of fictional characters -fictional love affairs of fictional characters -obsessive-compulsive disorder (for those who have taken to compiling lists of the characters to see if there were REALLY 125 voices in GoF as Jim Dale claimed...I've counted 90 so far) -unresolved grief -persistent nightmares featuring bursts of green light, high cackling laughs, or evil wizard couples in leather pants -hallucinations wherein every skinny black-haired teenager on the street appears to possess a certain unusual scar D'you think managed care would cover it? Amy Z P.S. You think I'm making this up . . . I've heard of a shrink who works solely with people who are ABD (grad students who've finished All But Dissertation). Someone out in Southern California is probably way ahead of me and has already hung out a shingle. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 14 00:06:37 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:06:37 -0000 Subject: Azkaban In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010113150309.00b43100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <93qqid+10827@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9191 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > They also obviously have a medieval legal system, since they are > throwing people like Sirius in prison without a trial. Not a medieval legal system, just suspending the constitution during a 'state of emergency'. President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus. > > I just had a horrible thought -- What if Sirius' name is cleared, > but then he gets busted for being an unregistered animagus?? If the current head of Magical Law Enforcement has any decency at all (I know, that's a big IF), he'll just sentence Sirius to time served. Or try him before a jury of middle-aged witches who were young and pretty when he was.... From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sun Jan 14 00:17:12 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:17:12 -0000 Subject: Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <93ql3o+okb1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93qr68+ccuh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9192 Scott wrote: > "Oh, no. Disney'd cast it like this; > > "-Weasley twins; Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen (did I mention that in > this version the twins are in the same year as Harry? And aren't > related to Ron? Oh, yeah, they're girls, too)" > > Has anyone seen the movie "Double Bubble Toil and Trouble"? (Or > something like that.) It features the Olsen twins and usually comes > on around Halloween (btw, can anyone tell me why the British ed. puts > an appostrophy in the word- Hallowe'en?). In it the twins try to > retrieve a moonstone (which has magic powers) from their evil witch > aunt so that they can save their other aunt who is trapped in a > mirror. (They'd fit right in to PS/SS (I'm kidding).) > > I really don't have much against Disney. This however is not to say > that I wish they were making the movie- I don't. > > Scott > Hmmm, you forgot to mention that Cinderella's castle would be > trasformed into Hogwarts ala the Magic Kingdom. MTV would cast it like this: Harry, Ron, Neville, Seamus, Dean = The Back Street boys Percy, Bill, Charlie, Fred and George Weasley= N Sync Hermione = Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera Dumbledore = Mick Jagger Sirius or Snape = Steven Tyler (Aerosmith) Uncle Vernon = Ozzy Osbourne Lockhart = Sting Nearly Headless Nick= David Bowie Madonna would be cast as Molly, McGonagall or Madame Hooch. Hogwarts would look like something out of Marilyn Manson's imagination. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 00:33:42 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:33:42 -0000 Subject: Goodbye! In-Reply-To: <000301c07db2$2c28dca0$e7a2003e@default> Message-ID: <93qs56+g5i3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9193 Stay safe, Maya. Amy From alw at wilsonllp.com Sun Jan 14 00:41:15 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (alw at wilsonllp.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:41:15 -0000 Subject: Muggle Things in Hogwarts (specifically watches) Message-ID: <93qsjb+uoc2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9194 Harry's watch...it's something that stands out for me in the books - sort of like the socks. In PS/SS Harry makes the comment when he's in the cabin with the Dursleys hiding from the Hogwarts letters, he states that he has to glance over to Dudley's watch to see when he turns a year older because the Dursleys have never bought him a watch (forgive me for not giving you the chapter, but I'm away from my books right now). The watch comes up a couple different times, most often I think in GoF. Amy From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 14 00:08:14 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:08:14 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] New therapy specialization (was Percy and Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9195 Jeralyn, the Voicelady (who's quite looking forward to meeting Penny while she's visiting my fair city!) From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sun Jan 14 01:13:12 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:13:12 -0000 Subject: Just arrived & under pressure from the kids about the next book... In-Reply-To: <93qnq4+sln1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93quf8+6lm6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9196 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eccleston at c... wrote: > Harry Potter arrived courtesy of Santa in my houeshold this Christmas > & I'm under considerable pressure from my kids to tell them when the > next book arrives. I'm sure you know. Having now read them my self > (and finding myself surprisingly hooked) I'm wondering where the > story line is going. Harry's older, the storyline is a bit darker and > adolescence has set in, what's the consensus? If your kids are under 10 I'd definately read the next book before you let them have it. I found the facts about the Longbottoms in GoF quite horrific and it really made me quite upset. The ending with wormtail cutting his hand off and the ghosts of Harry's parents emerging from the wand were similarly unpleasant and I expect the next book to be darker still. However kids often don't get the implications of the text enough to find them scary. I remember when I first saw The Silence of the Lambs when I was about 14 it really didn't bother me that much and I couldn't understand why my mum was so upset; now, of course, my opinion is somewhat different. My point being that unless the unpleasantness is particularly blatant it will often slip past kids that are too young to appreciate it. My two cents; I don't have kids. Dai From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Jan 14 02:18:32 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:18:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? References: <93qr68+ccuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002101c07dd0$4bfb3dc0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9197 But who would Alice Cooper and Eminem play? ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: milz To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 6:17 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? Scott wrote: > "Oh, no. Disney'd cast it like this; > > "-Weasley twins; Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen (did I mention that in > this version the twins are in the same year as Harry? And aren't > related to Ron? Oh, yeah, they're girls, too)" > > Has anyone seen the movie "Double Bubble Toil and Trouble"? (Or > something like that.) It features the Olsen twins and usually comes > on around Halloween (btw, can anyone tell me why the British ed. puts > an appostrophy in the word- Hallowe'en?). In it the twins try to > retrieve a moonstone (which has magic powers) from their evil witch > aunt so that they can save their other aunt who is trapped in a > mirror. (They'd fit right in to PS/SS (I'm kidding).) > > I really don't have much against Disney. This however is not to say > that I wish they were making the movie- I don't. > > Scott > Hmmm, you forgot to mention that Cinderella's castle would be > trasformed into Hogwarts ala the Magic Kingdom. MTV would cast it like this: Harry, Ron, Neville, Seamus, Dean = The Back Street boys Percy, Bill, Charlie, Fred and George Weasley= N Sync Hermione = Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera Dumbledore = Mick Jagger Sirius or Snape = Steven Tyler (Aerosmith) Uncle Vernon = Ozzy Osbourne Lockhart = Sting Nearly Headless Nick= David Bowie Madonna would be cast as Molly, McGonagall or Madame Hooch. Hogwarts would look like something out of Marilyn Manson's imagination. eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Jan 14 02:26:31 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 20:26:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Muggle Things in Hogwarts (specifically watches) References: <93qsjb+uoc2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003901c07dd1$69e18c80$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9198 Perhaps, when Harry is discovered to be heading off to the school or sometime during the summer after SS: (Using my memory, so if I get things wrong, fix it for me, ok?) 1. The Dursley's bought him an old-fashioned wind-up wanna be (aka the 3 dollar type) Timex. It was for appearance only--they couldn't have folks thinking he really did live in the cupboard could they? 2. He buys himself one when he's in the alley in POA. It doesn't have to always work. (Again, the 3 dollar ones that I always seemed to wash out constantly working for McDonalds!) 3. No other ideas! :) Present from the nice "cat" lady that I cannot recall her name off the top of my head who was on crutches in the first book. (Gawd, bad memory tonight!) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: alw at wilsonllp.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 6:41 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Muggle Things in Hogwarts (specifically watches) Harry's watch...it's something that stands out for me in the books - sort of like the socks. In PS/SS Harry makes the comment when he's in the cabin with the Dursleys hiding from the Hogwarts letters, he states that he has to glance over to Dudley's watch to see when he turns a year older because the Dursleys have never bought him a watch (forgive me for not giving you the chapter, but I'm away from my books right now). The watch comes up a couple different times, most often I think in GoF. Amy eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 01:48:54 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:48:54 -0000 Subject: Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <002101c07dd0$4bfb3dc0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <93r0i6+qq5t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9199 Dee wrote: > But who would Alice Cooper and Eminem play? Quirrell and Draco, respectively. Amy Z. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I've got two Neptunes here," said Harry after a while, frowning down at his piece of parchment, "that can't be right, can it?" "Aaaaah," said Ron, imitating Professor Trelawney's mystical whisper, "when two Neptunes appear in the sky, it is a sure sign that a midget in glasses is being born, Harry. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 14 01:59:29 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:59:29 -0000 Subject: Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <93qr68+ccuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93r161+53u6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9200 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > MTV would cast it like this: > > Harry, Ron, Neville, Seamus, Dean = The Back Street boys > Percy, Bill, Charlie, Fred and George Weasley= N Sync > Hermione = Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera > Dumbledore = Mick Jagger > Sirius or Snape = Steven Tyler (Aerosmith) > Uncle Vernon = Ozzy Osbourne > Lockhart = Sting > Nearly Headless Nick= David Bowie > > Madonna would be cast as Molly, McGonagall or Madame Hooch. > Hogwarts would look like something out of Marilyn Manson's > imagination. I can't help it! a few more: Cher = Trelawny Celine Dion = Petunia Meatloaf = Hagrid Bono = Lupin Vitamin C = Ginny Rob Thomas = Sirius But honestly Snape would be hard. There are sooo many gaunt, scowling musicians with greasy dark hair who take themselves entirely too seriously that it'd be really hard to choose one! From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Jan 14 02:18:08 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 13 Jan 2001 18:18:08 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texans for Harry Potter Message-ID: <20010114021808.8959.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9201 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Jan 14 02:33:32 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 13 Jan 2001 18:33:32 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HPforGU Chat on Sunday Message-ID: <20010114023332.10485.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9202 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 14 02:42:23 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 02:42:23 -0000 Subject: HPforGU Chat on Sunday In-Reply-To: <20010114023332.10485.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <93r3mf+l210@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9203 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Star wrote: > Would some one please email me and tell me when the chats are held and where? I've asked before but no one got back to me. The chats are held in the original yahoo! club "Harry Potter for Grownups" on Sundays beginning @2:00pm eastern time. They can last for quite a while, so don't worry if you miss the beginning. You'll need to have a yahoo ID in order to join the yahoo club. Hope to see you there and then. Jeralyn, the voicelady From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Jan 14 03:18:09 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 13 Jan 2001 19:18:09 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat Sessions - when and where they happen (admin) Message-ID: <20010114031809.28290.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9204 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sun Jan 14 03:19:06 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 22:19:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chat Sessions - when and where they happen (admin) References: <20010114031809.28290.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <00be01c07dd8$c1a99be0$5c70d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9205 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Star" > > thanx for telling me that but um would someone tell me what time it would be for in central time zone in teh U.S. my brain doesn't seem to be working and i want to make sure i've got the right time. Please don't think I'm stupid, I'm not I promise! (well maybe a little stupid in some ways :) Its 2pm central time. Hope to see you there, I usually stop in for a bit. carole From jdkjdkjdk at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 03:48:24 2001 From: jdkjdkjdk at hotmail.com (Jennifer Dowlin-Kelly) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:48:24 -0600 Subject: The softer side of Percy Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9206 Hello all. I'm a new member, joined yesterday. Rest assured I am a big HP fan, along with my husband. I gave him all four HP books to him for his birthday last August after the big GoF media blitz. We read them out loud to each other in ever spare moment we had outside of jobs and so forth. We read GoF in four days straight, then read it again so it wouldn't be "over." After reading a bunch of the notes from yesterday and today I want to respond to the Percy question with another observation of his caring for his family. Previously all that was mentioned was his caring for Ginny, but when Harry dragged Ron (along with Fleur's little sister)out of the lake in the second triwizard task, Percy ran up and was very concerned and worried and doting on Ron, which Ron shruggs off, trying to be cool, no doubt. I remember it seemed odd to me at the time, but I'd forgotten all the Ginny stuff. Seems like Percy could use some character development. I'm glad to have found HPforgrownups. Thanks! Jennifer Dowlin-Kelly _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 14 04:10:51 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:10:51 -0000 Subject: Scabbers/Wormtail: What Kind of Rat Am I? In-Reply-To: <93qqck+ik5v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93r8sb+fdki@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9207 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > > I've always pictured Scabbers as a sort of tame white lab rat, the > > kind we ran through mazes in back in introductory psych class. > > So did I, until the x-th time I heard Jim Dale reading some scene or > other.... > > As for Scabbers, here's a quote from PoA (the revelations in the > Shrieking Shack): "for a moment, Scabbers was frozen in midair, his > small gray form twisting madly" > > Earlier in PoA, in the Magical Menagerie shop on Diagon Alley, > where Ron buys rat tonic and Hermione buys Crookshanks, the > clever rats showing off in a communal cage on the counter are > described as black rats. > > CoS: At the Burrow: "Ron's magic wand was lying on top of a fish > tank full of frog spawn on the windowsill, next to his fat gray rat, > Scabbers, who was snoozing in a patch of sun." > > SS/PS: Harry meets Ron at King's Cross station: "Ron reached inside > his jacket and pulled out a fat gray rat" Thanks for clarifying that, Rita: though I must say, I find the idea of Ron cuddling for several years with a *Mus rattus* infinitely more unsettling than Harry's Parselmouth talents (but then, I always kept snakes as a kid, and I would loved to be able to converse with them). BTW, Chapter 11 of Hans Zinnser's Rats, Lice and History (1935) is a definitive exploration of the role that the rat has played in Western history. Apparently, the rat entered Europe in relatively recent historical terms, perhaps as recently as 700 AD. - CMC - CMC From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Jan 14 04:23:44 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:23:44 -0000 Subject: Scabbers/Wormtail: What Kind of Rat Am I? In-Reply-To: <001201c07daa$908c4cc0$5cc64b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <93r9kg+n64i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9208 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: I've always pictured Scabbers as a sort of tame white lab rat, the kind we ran through mazes in back in introductory psych class. Did Pettigrew change into a wild rat? Do Wizard kids keep wild rats as pets? Or as a magic white rat, is Pettigrew still able to converse with wild rats (which would otherwise surely kill him - rats are particularly vicious against rats of different species). I'm not sure if Scabbers was a wild rat, per se, but in Chapter 6 (The Journey From Platform 9 & 3/4) he is described as a "fat, gray rat." (US ed. pg 100) And they do sell grey rats at the pet store. I saw one Thursday afternoon at a local pet shop as I was checking out the furry and feathered critters on display while picking up cat food. Naturally, I thought of Scabbers and Wormtail. Trina, whose cat Dudley was *not* named after the great bullying git! From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 04:24:34 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:24:34 -0000 Subject: Scabbers/Wormtail: What Kind of Rat Am I? In-Reply-To: <93r8sb+fdki@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93r9m2+ihpf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9209 "What Kind of Rat Am I?" Do I hear a song brewing? Wormtail gets introspective? Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ------------------------------------------------------------------- From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 14 04:39:34 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:39:34 -0000 Subject: Time-Turner Casting (was Worst-Case Casting) In-Reply-To: <93ql3o+okb1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93rai6+ui88@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9210 Let's suppose that we could give WB a time turner, and they could bring their pick of acting genius of the illustrious past for HP. (No - let's say they were REQUIRED, since none of the names given below have ever outgrossed Jim Carrey or Adam Sandler) A few preliminary suggestions off the top of my head. Albus Dumbledore - Alec Guinness Minerva McGonagall - Joan Crawford Severus Snape - Basil Rathbone (Rickman as Snape? don't make me laugh - Rathbone owns this role) Rebeus Hagrid - Wallace Beery Gilderoy Lockhart - Errol Flynn Remus Lupin - Ronald Colman Sirius Black - Richard Burton Cornelius Fudge - Roland Young Lord Voldemort - Peter Sellers (we usually think of Sellers in terms of Inspector Clousseau, but he had a special flair for darkness - just think of Dr. Strangelove!) Peeves - Benny Hill - CMC From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 04:40:47 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:40:47 -0000 Subject: Scabbers/Wormtail: What Kind of Rat Am I? In-Reply-To: <93r8sb+fdki@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93rakf+nb35@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9211 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Thanks for clarifying that, Rita: though I must say, I find the idea > of Ron cuddling for several years with a *Mus rattus* infinitely more > unsettling than Harry's Parselmouth talents (but then, I always kept > snakes as a kid, and I would loved to be able to converse with them). > > Are white lab rats and wild rats different species, out of curiousity? They haven't been domesticated for anywhere near the same amount of time as dogs or cats or horses, so I'm not sure they would be. I always wondered what purpose Scabbers was supposed to have, as rats don't deliver the post. I wonder how Pettigrew ended up with Ron's family anyway. Did he just sneak into a pet shop one day? Did Percy find him in a garbage can somewhere? Charmian From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 14 04:43:25 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 04:43:25 -0000 Subject: Details of chat sessions/club features (admin) References: <20010114023332.10485.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <00c001c07de4$88b2ab40$0a3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9212 Star said > Would some one please email me and tell me when the chats are held and where? I've asked before but no one got back to me. > ~Star~ There had been several requests for information on the chat sessions, Star, so I posted a message to the list a little while back (the one you quoted, with the reply from Simon Biber?). I guess, with the posting rate here, things can get lost, though . BTW, in response to Simon, I can appreciate that the chat time we have is not ideal for Australasian members, and it's hard to come up with an alternative time slot that could involve members from other time zones. There are a few of you in Australia - perhaps you would be interested in a chat between yourselves? Any ideas on this would be gratefully received. Hmmm. Maybe it's time for another poll.... ***For Star, and anyone who is interested in Sunday chat sessions:- If you go online to the eGroups pages for this club [ http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups for those of you on mailing] you will find a calendar feature, which shows the chat sessions as a "repeat event" in your own time zone. If you look at the right-hand side of each calendar page, it says "Timezone" and the name of a city. Make sure that this is showing somewhere in your own region, if not the actual place you live, and the chat times will appear correctly. The Sunday event entry itself contains the URL of the old Yahoo incarnation of this club, which, as Jeralyn said, you will need to join in order to take part. Since, I'm talking about the calendar, and we have a few more new members since I last checked in (welcome one and all!!!), could I remind everyone that there is a wealth of information in the online eGroups site for the club? If you can, please take some time to look through the following areas: -Files -Links -Polls -Database These are located on the left-hand side of each page (note that we don't use the Chat facility there, as it is more cumbersome than the one at Yahoo!). The opening page will give you some general information on the club. Thanks Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Jan 14 05:36:52 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:36:52 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Time-Turner Casting (was Worst-Case Casting) In-Reply-To: <93rai6+ui88@eGroups.com> References: <93ql3o+okb1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010113210736.02d535a0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9213 At 04:39 AM 1/14/01 +0000, Caius Marcius wrote: >Albus Dumbledore - Alec Guinness >Minerva McGonagall - Joan Crawford >Severus Snape - Basil Rathbone (Rickman as Snape? don't make me >laugh - Rathbone owns this role) >Rebeus Hagrid - Wallace Beery >Gilderoy Lockhart - Errol Flynn >Remus Lupin - Ronald Colman >Sirius Black - Richard Burton >Cornelius Fudge - Roland Young >Lord Voldemort - Peter Sellers (we usually think of Sellers in terms >of Inspector Clousseau, but he had a special flair for darkness - >just think of Dr. Strangelove!) >Peeves - Benny Hill I think I've posted this before, but here's my own "Time Turner" casting: Harry: Roddy McDowell (When he was a kid, as in HOW GREEN WAS MY VALLEY) Ron: Ron Howard (When he was too old for Opie but too young for Richie) Hermione: Diana Lynn (Based on her role as the studious Lucy "Madame Currie" Hill in THE MAJOR AND THE MINOR) Dumbledore: Robert Donat (Based on GOODBYE, MR. CHIPS) Hagrid: Michael Bilton (The late British comedian who played the gruff but softhearted groundskeeper in the British sitcom TO THE MANOR BORN) Prof. McGonnegall: Edna May Oliver (She played many stern matrons with hearts of gold, such as Aunt Betsey in DAVID COPPERFIELD) Prof. Sprout: Margaret Rutherford (She was sufficiently short and dumpy) :) Prof. Lupin: Michael Rennie (The very polished fellow with a secret identity in THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL) Snape: Basil Rathbone (I agree with you, he *owns* the role!) :) Lucius Malfoy: Henry Daniell (Famous for portraying snarling bigots in JANE EYRE, THE GREAT DICTATOR, and others) Ginny: Margaret O'Brian (I'm not sure how she'd look as a redhead, though.) Mad-Eye Moody: Finlay Currie (Magwitch in David Lean's version of GREAT EXPECTATIONS) You-Know-Who: Ramond Massey; Wormtail: Peter Lorrie (These two are based on their roles in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE) Rita Skeeter: Hedda Hopper (She'd have been essentially be playing herself!) Prof. Trelawney: Elsa Lanchester (I'm not sure why -- I just see her as being masterful in the role) -- Dave From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Jan 14 06:39:55 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:39:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Time-Turner Casting (was Worst-Case Casting) References: <93ql3o+okb1@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010113210736.02d535a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <00c701c07df4$d0c900e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9214 Peter Lorrie as Wormtail, wow. At least he's got experience playing animals (aka Ravens.....!) ************************************************************ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ************************************************************ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hardenbrook To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Time-Turner Casting (was Worst-Case Casting) At 04:39 AM 1/14/01 +0000, Caius Marcius wrote: >Albus Dumbledore - Alec Guinness >Minerva McGonagall - Joan Crawford >Severus Snape - Basil Rathbone (Rickman as Snape? don't make me >laugh - Rathbone owns this role) >Rebeus Hagrid - Wallace Beery >Gilderoy Lockhart - Errol Flynn >Remus Lupin - Ronald Colman >Sirius Black - Richard Burton >Cornelius Fudge - Roland Young >Lord Voldemort - Peter Sellers (we usually think of Sellers in terms >of Inspector Clousseau, but he had a special flair for darkness - >just think of Dr. Strangelove!) >Peeves - Benny Hill I think I've posted this before, but here's my own "Time Turner" casting: Harry: Roddy McDowell (When he was a kid, as in HOW GREEN WAS MY VALLEY) Ron: Ron Howard (When he was too old for Opie but too young for Richie) Hermione: Diana Lynn (Based on her role as the studious Lucy "Madame Currie" Hill in THE MAJOR AND THE MINOR) Dumbledore: Robert Donat (Based on GOODBYE, MR. CHIPS) Hagrid: Michael Bilton (The late British comedian who played the gruff but softhearted groundskeeper in the British sitcom TO THE MANOR BORN) Prof. McGonnegall: Edna May Oliver (She played many stern matrons with hearts of gold, such as Aunt Betsey in DAVID COPPERFIELD) Prof. Sprout: Margaret Rutherford (She was sufficiently short and dumpy) :) Prof. Lupin: Michael Rennie (The very polished fellow with a secret identity in THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL) Snape: Basil Rathbone (I agree with you, he *owns* the role!) :) Lucius Malfoy: Henry Daniell (Famous for portraying snarling bigots in JANE EYRE, THE GREAT DICTATOR, and others) Ginny: Margaret O'Brian (I'm not sure how she'd look as a redhead, though.) Mad-Eye Moody: Finlay Currie (Magwitch in David Lean's version of GREAT EXPECTATIONS) You-Know-Who: Ramond Massey; Wormtail: Peter Lorrie (These two are based on their roles in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE) Rita Skeeter: Hedda Hopper (She'd have been essentially be playing herself!) Prof. Trelawney: Elsa Lanchester (I'm not sure why -- I just see her as being masterful in the role) -- Dave eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 05:45:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 05:45:36 -0000 Subject: Time-Turner Casting (was Worst-Case Casting) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010113210736.02d535a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <93ree0+tl2k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9215 Good casting! Two thumbs up to these two in particular: >Prof. Lupin: Michael Rennie (The very polished fellow with a secret >identity in THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL) > >Snape: Basil Rathbone (I agree with you, he *owns* the role!) :) (Dave's picks) Amy Z, who wants to run out and rent The Day the Earth Stood Still again RIGHT NOW! Oh yeah, it's almost 1 a.m. Oh well. From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 05:55:13 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:55:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Quidditch in the Backyard(long yet hysterical) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9216 This is long, but very very funny, if you can get past the background about my friends....I def reccomend you read it for a laugh... So, everyone here has had boring weeknds am i right? Normally i fill these with friends or harry, but this weekend i did both. My 2 best friends in the world and my boyfriend were over at my house. My room is rather large and has a "sittin area" and we were all reading the books, Signe in book 3, Chris in Book 4, Katie in Book 2, and myself at the laptop with PoU(which i swore i would never read, but i was sucked in) Well, my mother comes upstairs and asks me to sweep off the balcony. now, what do you think she hands me.....a broom....So, i get up and go outside quickly, but am followed by chris(who was thouroghly upset that they cancelled quidditch in book 4) He is looking over the railing of my balcony on the 2nd floor, and he looks down and he sees my trampoline. His features light up into some insane kind of grin. Recently.....during the middle of school, to prove he could, he went acrosee the support beams in the cafeteria ceiling. ANyways, he runs and gets signe and katie and tells them to wait on the balcony with me. i am sweeping it off as i was told and they are standing out there with their books, when i see him run back with a soccer ball, a tennis ball, and 3 more brooms. I immediately see where he is going and say "no way in hell chritsoper....dont even think about it, go put the brooms back" but by now, signe and katie were excited, and even though i knew mommy would be furious, we put our books inside and came out. Now, I bring you Quidditch in the Backyard: Basically what he wanted to happen was this. The 2 balls would be thrown from the balcony to my rather large rectangular trampoline that is below my window(we have tried to jump to the balcony but never vice versa) and then, one of the four of us would jump off the balcony railings on our brooms and sail after the balls, and if you cauth the tennis ball, our golden snitch, it was 150 points, and if you managed to throw the soccer ball back onto the balcony within one jump then you got 10 points. I was on a team with signe and chris was with katie. We all took turns sailing over the railings and needless to say, it was great fun. Flying about on a broom would have to be, wouldn't it? Well, The final score was Chris and Katie 80, Signe and Stephanie 450...They couldnt catch the "snitch" and we couldnt catch the "quaffle" tpo save our lives. The game ended when mom looked out the library wnidow and saw me barrelling down on a brromstick...needless to say she was not pleased. I am sorry this was so long, but the obsession quiz made me think of it when i had to check that box....for those of you who live in a non parentless household ;) i highly reccomend this...but be safe and for those of you who call me childish i just can't help myself when i am high on harry! Stephanie The Quidditch Master _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 14 05:57:27 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 05:57:27 -0000 Subject: Pets (was: Scabbers/Wormtail: What Kind of Rat Am I? In-Reply-To: <93rakf+nb35@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93rf47+avko@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9217 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > I always wondered what purpose Scabbers was supposed to have, as > rats don't deliver the post. Trevor the Toad doesn't deliver the post either. In fact, cats other than Crookshanks don't deliver the post -- and a cat OR a toad OR an owl was what students were allowed to bring. I wonder whether they're supposed to be familiars in some advanced magic class that HP isn't old enough for yet, or just pets? First Percy and then Ron had a rat, which is not on that list, but a rat who can stay in a pocket or bookbag is likely to cause less trouble than a cat -- perhaps could be kept secretly even at a school which didn't allow pets. But since Weasleys bent that rule but Lavender Brown left her beloved bunny at home (to be eaten by a fox), I figure that Lavender took the statement on her Hogwarts letter altogether too literally, which is another thing that makes me suspect she is Muggle-born. She could have brought her bunny with her to school, and if anyone complained, she could have said he was a funny looking cat. My college had a silly rule about students could keep cats in the dorms, upon payment of a $5 registration fee per cat, which gave you a big red plastic tag to attach to your cat's collar to show that he was legal, but it was against the rules to keep dogs in the dorms. In my dorm, a girl from Hong Kong named Miao Chang (I always remember that name because Miao is pronounced 'meow') had a Pekinese dog smaller than most of the cats, whom she didn't bother to register at all. A girl in the dorm next door had a Big Terrier Mutt named Ladvy, who was registered as a cat. Mary Pat (Mary Patterson MacPherson, then Dean of the Undergraduate College, later President), who was a dog lover and had a Great Pyrenee named Hume whose bark made the earth shake) always patted Ladvy on the head and said 'Nice kitty' whenever she saw him. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 14 06:07:33 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:07:33 -0000 Subject: Quidditch in the Backyard(long yet hysterical) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93rfn5+7qi4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9218 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > [Chris] is looking over the railing of my balcony on the 2nd floor, > and he looks down and he sees my trampoline. As far as I know, normal people don't HAVE a trampoline, especially not conveniently under the balcony . > His features light up into some insane kind of grin. Recently... > ..during the middle of school, to prove he could, he went across > the support beams in the cafeteria ceiling. Does he have the LOOKS of the young Sirius Black as well as the personality? > I was on a team with signe and chris was with katie. We all took > turns sailing over the railings and needless to say, it was great > fun. Flying about on a broom would have to be, wouldn't it? > Well, The final score was Chris and Katie 80, Signe and Stephanie > 450...They couldnt catch the "snitch" and we couldnt catch the > "quaffle" to save our lives. My oldness is showing: I expected you to report that trampoline Quidditch was a big failure, with the balls running off in all directions and brooms getting broken and people falling down, but instead than it turned out to be a big success. I enjoyed hearing about it. From klaatu at primenet.com Sun Jan 14 06:24:58 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 23:24:58 -0700 Subject: Fan Fiction Database Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9219 I've added several records to the new Fan Fiction file in the Database section of the club, to get us started. Heads up to Neil "Flying Ford Anglia" Ward -- I can't edit the records after I've entered them. I think you can change that option so that everyone can edit at least their own entries, or ideally-- ALL of the records. If you could change that, then the authors themselves could alter the records that I've entered, if they want to add or change the info. I've only scratched the surface of the fine fan fiction out there -- everyone please add in your favorites. Sister Mary Lunatic (emerging from her cell at "Our Lady of Hogwarts Convent and VCR Repair Shop") ======================================================== Peace of mind is that mental condition in which you have accepted the worst.-- Lin Yutang ========================================================= From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 06:25:19 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:25:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Quidditch in the Backyard(long yet hysterical) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9220 >As far as I know, normal people don't HAVE a trampoline, >especially not conveniently under the balcony . Ha, my little sister is in gymnastics, and last weekend, we played "see if you can jump into stephanie's balcony" which is why it was so conveniently placed there. >Does he have the LOOKS of the young Sirius Black as well as the >personality? Not LIKE Sirius per se, but he is roguishly handome, suprise suprise for plain little me > My oldness is showing: I expected you to report that >trampoline Quidditch was a big failure, with the balls running off in >all directions and brooms getting broken and people falling down, but >instead than it turned out to be a big success. I enjoyed hearing >about it. HA HA HA HA HA...there were failures, it took a few trials and the enlisted help of my little sister(a big HP fan, whome we DID NOT let fly about) to throw balls back up to us when they missed, or helping us practice our aim in the beginning. I was as amazed as you when no one got hurt, though i nearly missed the trampoline once in my determination to snatch the snitch. Stephanie Hoping her friends dont figure out how to simulate dragon fighting while flying off my balcony on brromsticks _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 14 06:11:19 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:11:19 -0000 Subject: Netiquette Tips (admin) - please read this Message-ID: <00ed01c07df0$d1429a80$0a3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9221 NETIQUETTE TIPS This is a general announcement e-owl from the Moderators - not aimed at anyone in particular - and, hey, it makes jolly good bedtime reading! Members, new and old, are requested to observe the following Netiquette: **Virgin posters Read a few days' worth of messages before posting your own. You can do this either by "lurking" (reading messages, but not writing them) for a few days, or by going back through the most recent messages (a daunting task, with such an active group). This way, you'll get a "feel" for the group, and you can make sure you're not repeating something that has been posted recently by someone else. **Keep the subject line relevant to the content of the post Message board conversations, like "real life" ones, will often drift from one subject to another. If the subject line does not change to fit the direction of the conversation, it can frustrate the reader. When replying to a message, please take the time to check the subject line and make sure it still matches your post. For example, if the subject line says: "RE: Who's going to die in the next book?" and the topic has segued into a character matchmaking debate (with no mention of death), it's time to change the subject line! **Keep your posts on topic In such a large and active group, it's easy to let discussions go off on tangents. If a couple of you find something in common other than Harry Potter, wonderful! Getting to know people is, perhaps, the best thing about clubs. But if you find your discussion getting away from the main point of the club, please continue it off-list. **One-line and ultra-short posts As our message volume is very high, one-line posts can push the numbers through the roof, so please take a moment to consider the following:- * Consider expanding on your point. For example, if you are posing a question about the HP books ("What about so-and-so?"), could you add some thoughts of your own to lead off any discussion? * Consider combining your shorter points/responses with a few others in a multi-topic post, making sure the topic line indicates this. However, if your point is substantive (or just plain lengthy), it is best to give it space on its own to make the thread easier to follow. * Try to avoid "me too!" and "LOL!" posts that have absolutely no other content. * Sometimes a brief response is perfectly acceptable; for example, if you are correcting an error someone has made and do not have much else to say (e.g. "You cannot apparate into Hogwarts!") or giving information that you don't want to bury in another message ("The link to that article about Dumbledore's socks is at http://www.anyoldwebsite.com"). **Response posts If you are replying to a message, please indicate the name of the person who wrote the original and include any relevant segments of their post, or a brief summary of their point(s). At the same time, please try to delete any parts of the original post that are not relevant to your point(s), especially if the original was really long! Remember, also, that if you respond in a fresh post rather than using the 'reply' button, your response will not appear in the "replies to this message" in any search. **Take the time to proofread your posts If you're used to forums where speed is important (chat rooms, role playing games, etc.), it's easy to fall out of the habit of proofreading. Here, however, your post will be as relevant in five minutes (or, usually, even in five hours) as it is now. Before hitting the 'send' button, please take a few minutes to look over your post and correct any typos, spelling/punctuation errors, or problems with sentence structure or capitalization. This will make it much easier to read and help in getting across your point. Please avoid using all lower case letters or, worse still, all CAPITAL LETTERS. **Be considerate of other members' feelings If you disagree with someone's message, no matters how strongly, remember to respect the other person's right to his or her own opinion. If you do wish to refute the post, do so gently, by building up your own case, rather than knocking down the other person's. And never attack your fellow club members (name calling, personal remarks, etc). Thank you for reading! Your Moderators [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 14 06:29:11 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 06:29:11 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fan Fiction Database References: Message-ID: <013d01c07df3$4eef3b80$0a3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9222 Sister Mary Lunatic said: > I've added several records to the new Fan Fiction file in the Database > section of the club, to get us started. > > Heads up to Neil "Flying Ford Anglia" Ward -- I can't edit the records after > I've entered them. I think you can change that option so that everyone can > edit at least their own entries, or ideally-- ALL of the records. If you > could change that, then the authors themselves could alter the records that > I've entered, if they want to add or change the info. Thank you, Sister Mary "Danemead" Lunatic! It's nice to know you're still here too... I've changed the "edit/delete a record" so that "Anyone" can edit the table and add more recommendations for great fanfiction. You should be able to link right into the table by clicking on this rather messy-looking URL: http://www.egroups.com/database/HPforGrownups?method=reportRows&tbl=7 Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Sun Jan 14 07:01:15 2001 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (Minnesota Girlie) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:01:15 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr. In-Reply-To: <01C07C19.D85D6580.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <93rirr+nmmt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9223 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Questions: > > 1. Does Lucius have any good qualities? Well, besides the fact that he's loyal and loving (in a weird way -- he's loyal to Voldemort, which leads me to believe he is loyal to Narcissa, which leads me to believe that, maybe, he loves her?), he supposedly dresses well and has oodles of money. Oh yeah, then there's that whole 'attractive' thing... which hasn't been proven (has it?)... and he's clever. > 2. What does Lucius want? - to be Voldemort's lieutenant or to be Voldemort? I agree with what I've read from numerous others -- he wants the power of the "man behind the name". He knows that being "the name" will get him into lots of trouble, thus leaving less time for other things... but, as we see with his act of 'being under the Imperius Curse' while Voldie was in power, he can have his cake (lots of power and evil-doing) and eat it too. > 3. Will he live beyond the end of Book 7? I think so. Then again, I'm one of those that hasn't put a lot of thought to who's going to die and who isn't. > > 4. What does Lucius do with his days? Surely plotting to overthrow the world as > we know it can only fill in so much time. Does he like a good game of > backgammon? Well, plotting to overthrow the world takes more time than you might think... er... but I wouldn't know, only being a 14 year old girl and everything... uhm... > 5. Did Snape and Malfoy ever have a fling? - Is Draco their love child? Who was on top? Oh no no no. Snape's much too greasy for Lucius. If ever they had a fling, I think Lucius would have to have Snape's hair washed and thoroughly combed before _anything_ happened. And of course Draco's not their love-child -- I have a feeling that Snape's nastiness is a dominant genetic trait, meaning Draco'd have to be nasty too... But, if they were to have a fling, I think Lucius would pull rank and be on top. ~ Minnesota Girlie From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 07:04:19 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 01:04:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Time-Turner Casting (was Worst-Case Casting) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9224 If we had a time turner, we need andre the giant to be hagrid... Stephanie Who is in Love with The Princess Bride >At 04:39 AM 1/14/01 +0000, Caius Marcius wrote: > >Albus Dumbledore - Alec Guinness > >Minerva McGonagall - Joan Crawford > >Severus Snape - Basil Rathbone (Rickman as Snape? don't make me > >laugh - Rathbone owns this role) > >Rebeus Hagrid - Wallace Beery > >Gilderoy Lockhart - Errol Flynn > >Remus Lupin - Ronald Colman > >Sirius Black - Richard Burton > >Cornelius Fudge - Roland Young > >Lord Voldemort - Peter Sellers (we usually think of Sellers in terms > >of Inspector Clousseau, but he had a special flair for darkness - > >just think of Dr. Strangelove!) > >Peeves - Benny Hill > >I think I've posted this before, but here's my own >"Time Turner" casting: > >Harry: Roddy McDowell (When he was a kid, as in HOW GREEN WAS MY VALLEY) > >Ron: Ron Howard (When he was too old for Opie but too young for Richie) > >Hermione: Diana Lynn (Based on her role as the studious > Lucy "Madame Currie" Hill in > THE MAJOR AND THE MINOR) > >Dumbledore: Robert Donat (Based on GOODBYE, MR. CHIPS) > >Hagrid: Michael Bilton (The late British comedian who played the gruff but > softhearted groundskeeper in the British > sitcom TO THE MANOR BORN) > >Prof. McGonnegall: Edna May Oliver (She played many stern matrons > with hearts of gold, such as Aunt Betsey >in > DAVID COPPERFIELD) > >Prof. Sprout: Margaret Rutherford (She was sufficiently short and dumpy) >:) > >Prof. Lupin: Michael Rennie (The very polished fellow with a secret > identity in THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL) > >Snape: Basil Rathbone (I agree with you, he *owns* the role!) :) > >Lucius Malfoy: Henry Daniell (Famous for portraying snarling bigots > in JANE EYRE, THE GREAT DICTATOR, and others) > >Ginny: Margaret O'Brian (I'm not sure how she'd look as a redhead, >though.) > >Mad-Eye Moody: Finlay Currie (Magwitch in David Lean's version of > GREAT EXPECTATIONS) > >You-Know-Who: Ramond Massey; Wormtail: Peter Lorrie > (These two are based on their roles in ARSENIC AND OLD LACE) > >Rita Skeeter: Hedda Hopper (She'd have been essentially be playing >herself!) > >Prof. Trelawney: Elsa Lanchester (I'm not sure why -- I just see her as > being masterful in >the role) > > > > -- Dave > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Sun Jan 14 07:13:04 2001 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (Minnesota Girlie) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:13:04 -0000 Subject: Character: Minerva McGonagall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93rji0+t6ks@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9225 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: 1) In PS, she jumps to the conclusion that Harry and Hermione tried to lure > Draco out of bed up to the tower with the story about the dragon. Does this > seem unfair and out of keeping with her fair-but-firm attitude? > Well, thinking that the dragon is just a story (it does seem a bit farfetched for two first-years to be smuggling a _dragon_ out of, let alone into, Hogwarts) is better than expelling Harry Potter, THE Harry Potter. And, of course, she'd be accused of preferring Harry to everyone else if she expels Hermione and not Harry (which would definitely get Lucius Malfoy's silk boxers with twinkling faerie lights on them in a bunch). > 3) What is the significance of her "protection" method for the Philosopher's > Stone (the giant chess-set)? Well.... looking at how bad Harry is at it, wizarding chess seems sort of hard. It is so McGonagall -- something stern, big (well this isn't so much McGonagall), unyielding, which needs a certain amount of skill to get through. Besides, we needed something for Ron to be really good at, since Harry had the winged keys and Hermione had the potion-riddle. > > 4) Continuing the theme from question 1, what are possible reasons for > McGonagall not punishing Harry -- indeed, rewarding him -- for flying > unsupervised in PS? Hermione even thinks that this is inconsistent with > McGonagall in general. Again, does this have any greater significance than a > Good Plot Device? She doesn't want Harry to leave Hogwarts, much like Fudge does not and Dumbledore does not. Besides, as you pointed out with her having a certain soft-spot when it comes to Harry's hard-knock life living with the Dursleys, I bet she wouldn't be able to stand the thought of Harry having to spend the rest of his life as a Muggle. ~ Minnesota Girlie From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Sun Jan 14 13:22:33 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:22:33 -0000 Subject: Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <93r161+53u6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93s96p+kvvj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9226 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > > MTV would cast it like this: > > > > Harry, Ron, Neville, Seamus, Dean = The Back Street boys > > Percy, Bill, Charlie, Fred and George Weasley= N Sync > > Hermione = Britney Spears or Christina Aguilera > > Dumbledore = Mick Jagger > > Sirius or Snape = Steven Tyler (Aerosmith) > > Uncle Vernon = Ozzy Osbourne > > Lockhart = Sting > > Nearly Headless Nick= David Bowie > > > > Madonna would be cast as Molly, McGonagall or Madame Hooch. > > Hogwarts would look like something out of Marilyn Manson's > > imagination. > > I can't help it! a few more: > Cher = Trelawny > Celine Dion = Petunia > Meatloaf = Hagrid > Bono = Lupin > Vitamin C = Ginny > Rob Thomas = Sirius > But honestly Snape would be hard. There are sooo many gaunt, scowling > musicians with greasy dark hair who take themselves entirely too > seriously that it'd be really hard to choose one! Ummm. Pink as Ginny. The Spice Girls and Destiny's Child as any of the Gryffindor or Slytherin female students. From yael_pou at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 13:38:55 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 15:38:55 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 433 References: <979430750.19061@egroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9227 > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001 21:02:01 -0000 > From: "Neil Ward" > Subject: Re: Fanfic Recommendations? > > Catlady said: > > > Is anyone making a File of all the Fanfic Recommendations, and fanfic > > by list members, and posting it in the Files section of this egroup > > or one of the related egroups? > > Good thought. Fanfiction is one of the FAQ topics (Penny is doing it), but > there isn't a draft of it as yet. There is also some fanfic by club > members in the files area (including some of Catlady's), but not > recommendations as such. > > I've created a Fanfiction table in the Database area of the club, so anyone > can add their favourites. This will make it easier to see what's worth > reading (in the humble opinion of our members) without having to plough > through old messages. I haven't added anything myself, although there are > several excellent fanfics that get mentioned here often . > > Please, everyone, add your faves to the list. > > Neil Actually, 'sanna' had created such a list. It is called hp4ever (http://www.egroups.com/group/hp4ever) and supposed to have the best plot-driven fics from ff.net. I'm not sure i entirely agree with all her choices, but there are some excellent fics there. I personally added links to PoU, ASA and STNE. > > Message: 17 > Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 00:42:32 +0200 > From: "Maya Crabtree" > Subject: Goodbye! > > So that's it then. I'll be going to the army tomorrow (actually, in 6 hours > I have to get up). > Most of you know all about it already, for the rest - I'm starting that 3 > months course, in the Intelligence Force. Actual Enlistment 3rd of April. Oooh, better be careful there. I used to be BITACHON SADE. :) Good luck, and have fun. yael (who's afraid she'd get kicked out of this list for her measly 33% addiction. Luckily i write fanfic, or it would have been 28%. - All right, i'll go hide under my desk now). From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 14 13:47:59 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 13:47:59 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter obsession Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9228 yael (who's afraid she'd get kicked out of this list for her measly 33% addiction. Luckily i write fanfic, or it would have been 28%. - All right, i'll go hide under my desk now). I would not worry - I only got 33% addiction. The quiz is not all that useful as it refers to SS rather than PS, so I miss out on lots of things I would otherwise tick. If I can count the ones referring to SS as being ok if I have read PS then I get 56% rating. Still not particularly high when I consider how much of my time is spent with HP stuff! Simon From hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com Sun Jan 14 15:49:56 2001 From: hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com (Sara Metz) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 09:49:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Character: Minerva McGonagall Message-ID: <20010114.094957.-331825.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9229 On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 07:13:04 -0000 "Minnesota Girlie" writes: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > > > 4) Continuing the theme from question 1, what are possible reasons > > for > > McGonagall not punishing Harry -- indeed, rewarding him -- for > flying > > unsupervised in PS? Hermione even thinks that this is inconsistent > > with > > McGonagall in general. Again, does this have any greater > significance than a > > Good Plot Device? > > She doesn't want Harry to leave Hogwarts, much like Fudge does not > and > Dumbledore does not. Besides, as you pointed out with her having a > certain soft-spot when it comes to Harry's hard-knock life living > with > the Dursleys, I bet she wouldn't be able to stand the thought of > Harry > having to spend the rest of his life as a Muggle. > I actually think that it's because the Gryffindors hadn't won the Quidditch cup in several years; in SS, McGonagall mentions to Harry and Wood that the Gryffindor team the previous year was flattened by the Slytherins and she "couldn't look Severus Snape in the face for weeks." (Ch. 9) Even though she's a stickler for the rules, and usually never favors the Gryffindors above the other students, (Harry says in SS, "Wish she'd favor us." after Ron comments on Snape's always favoring the Slytherins) I think her pride probably got the better of her. After all, we all know how annoying Snape can be; I'm sure nobody could resist the urge to one-up him somehow. In this case, it's by having a better Quidditch team that will win. Sara ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From vmclure at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 16:24:10 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:24:10 -0000 Subject: OT--dialects ("fixin' to") In-Reply-To: <93q2c2+f8j8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93sjra+mjv8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9230 Shoot, lil' darlin', I just want them to talk so's I kin understand 'em! Actually, they're not that bad. Like Amanda, I am a native Texan and since moving to Lubbock (I teach in Levelland, which looks just like it sounds)from Houston 20 years ago, I have learned a new language. And no, Hagrid would not be who he is without his dialect. I applaud JKR for using it well--too many authors turn characters with dialect into characatures. JKR has kept Hagrid "real." The way he talks is who he is, not who he pretends to be. I hope that makes sense. Still need more coffee this morning. Victoria --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Victoria McLure" > wrote: > I teach freshman composition at a rural community college and believe > me, the dialect has not died out! Anyone got a formula for an anti- > dialect potion? Perhaps an aerosal variety?? > > And why would we want to do a thing like that? Then we would all > sound like newscastes and the beauty of regional language would be > gone. Besides, can you imagine Hagrid and Dumbledore sounding > *exactly* the same? > > Trina (it's a dialect not a disorder) From vmclure at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 16:57:59 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 16:57:59 -0000 Subject: Texans for Harry Potter In-Reply-To: <20010114021808.8959.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <93slqn+eust@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9231 I'm in Lubbock, so it looks like we're all over the state. However, my folks live in S. Texas, so getting there isn't a real problem. If we get together, I'll bring something really gooey none of us should eat! Vic --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Star wrote: > On Thu, 11 January 2001, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > > > Star wrote: > > > > > For instance, there's > > > > several regular posters who live in SE Michigan... lots in the London > > > > area... others in Texas... others in Australia, > > > > > > Texas? Who's in Texas? I recently moved to Texas and it would be neat to meet other HP fans here hopefully not on the entire opposite side of the state that is. > > > > So far, Ryan, Allen, me, and a few others whose names escape me after a day of housecleaning and bathing kids. Ryan's in Austin, and Allen and I are both South > > Texas (which still covers a load of territory). Where are you? > > > > --Amanda > > I'm up in the northeastern part, head northeast for 2 hours from Dallas and you'll eventually find me in the small town that I really don't want to live in but for now am stuck there. > > > --------------------------------------------------- > Get your free web based email from Crosswalk.com: > http://mail.crosswalk.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 14 18:17:57 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 18:17:57 -0000 Subject: Regional Meetings (admin) Message-ID: <93sqgl+663v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9232 Hi everyone (especially the latest influx of new members - we're up to 660 at the last count - PHEW!), It's great to see people planning regional meetings, but it's easy to lose track of who is living where (and the Members' list is a bit cumbersome, let's face it). To help with this, I've set up yet another Database in the eGroups club area. If you're interested in meeting up with other members, please add your details to the 'Regional Meetings' Database. The table can be sorted alphabetically by town/city, state or country, so that any of us can use it to see who else is located in our area. The Database is here:- http://www.egroups.com/database/HPforGrownups?method=reportRows&tbl=8 ... but if the link doesn't work, please check the Daabase directory. Thanks! Neil From amayanicole at mindspring.com Sun Jan 14 19:40:39 2001 From: amayanicole at mindspring.com (Nicole ) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:40:39 -0000 Subject: Worst-Case Casting, wasRe: Could the Movie be this bad? In-Reply-To: <93ql3o+okb1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93svbn+oerk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9233 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Has anyone seen the movie "Double Bubble Toil and Trouble"? (Or > something like that.) It features the Olsen twins and usually comes > on around Halloween (btw, can anyone tell me why the British ed. puts > an appostrophy in the word- Hallowe'en?). This is a contraction for Hollowed Evening, is it not? Nicole From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Jan 14 20:34:21 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffes MacGoo) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:34:21 -0000 Subject: re various Message-ID: <93t2gd+46e7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9234 eccleston at clara.co.uk said "Harry Potter arrived courtesy of Santa in my houeshold this Christmas & I'm under considerable pressure from my kids to tell them when the next book arrives. I'm sure you know. Having now read them my self (and finding myself surprisingly hooked) I'm wondering where the story line is going. Harry's older, the storyline is a bit darker and adolescence has set in, what's the consensus?" I think the general feeling is it's going to get worse before it gets better. Bets are on to which of our favourites are going to get it. Date for the next book keeps getting pushed back, was July 2001 (now close, then November 2001 and now some time in 2002 ? Am I right in that?) Too far away in my opinion. At least we will have Quidditch through the ages and fabulous beasts to entertain us in the interim (though without them we might get HP5 more quickly) "used to could" Maybe I'm a more badly spoken Aust than most but I use this phrase. Course it sounds more like "she useda coulda run all day but now I gotta make sure she take breaks cause she's never gunna done learn that it makes her back's sore but eh?" (ie I have a sight hound who loves to run all day but now must be made to take breaks or she will hurt herself.) The `but eh?' or `eh but?' and making things that are statements questions is very common. The use of `learn' instead of `teach' is common too ie ? (chiding someone after they have done something silly) `don't s'pose that'll learn ya not to do it again but eh?' Simon Biber may disagree with me about this. (re meaning of Malfoy) Charmian said "What are the other ones? I like the French thing too. Seems like Rowling uses a lot of French in naming." Err, can't remember, was a thread about this some time ago. Will post you off-list if I remember Angela ? love your plan for Lucius' day. Nice to know he is busy Minnesota girlie said "Oh no no no. Snape's much too greasy for Lucius. If ever they had a fling, I think Lucius would have to have Snape's hair washed and thoroughly combed before _anything_ happened." It's not just Lucius that would want Snape to clean up before taking him to bed. I think there are a few list members out there too who feel the same. "And of course Draco's not their love-child -- I have a feeling that Snape's nastiness is a dominant genetic trait, meaning Draco'd have to be nasty too... " I thought this might explain Snape's fawning over Draco ... but you may well be right storm To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From eccleston at clara.co.uk Sun Jan 14 21:38:54 2001 From: eccleston at clara.co.uk (eccleston at clara.co.uk) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:38:54 -0000 Subject: re various In-Reply-To: <93t2gd+46e7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93t69e+885k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9235 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Snuffes MacGoo" wrote: > eccleston at c... said "Harry Potter arrived courtesy of Santa in > my houeshold this Christmas & I'm under considerable pressure from my > kids to tell them when the next book arrives. I'm sure you know. > Having now read them my self (and finding myself surprisingly hooked) > I'm wondering where the > story line is going. Harry's older, the storyline is a bit darker and > adolescence has set in, what's the consensus?" > > I think the general feeling is it's going to get worse before it gets > better. Bets are on to which of our favourites are going to get it. > > Date for the next book keeps getting pushed back, was July 2001 (now > close, then November 2001 and now some time in 2002 ? Am I right in > that?) Too far away in my opinion. At least we will have Quidditch > through the ages and fabulous beasts to entertain us in the interim > (though without them we might get HP5 more quickly) > Thanks for the info. The feeling amongst my friends is that Lupin is , perhaps, just too nice. We're a bit worried about him. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 21:53:00 2001 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:53:00 -0000 Subject: Rowling the artist Message-ID: <93t73s+erph@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9236 I was just at a bookstore where I looked at a deluxe edition of Sorcerers Stone and saw a pen and ink drawing of Harry Potter drawn by J K Rowling herself. I was stunned, I had absolutely no idea she was such a fine artist! Even more stunning (and pleasing) this is the first time I've ever seen a picture of Harry that conformed with my mental picture of him, and it doesn't have the slightest resemblance to that jerk on the cover who claims he's Harry Potter. If this woman is not a genius then I don't know the meaning of the word. My only criticism of Rowling is that she should have never let her editors talk her into changing the title of the first book for Americans, Philosophers Stone is about a thousand times better. I was pleased to note that although still called Sorcerers Stone in America the characters in the movie will talk about the Philosophers Stone in the movie. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Jan 14 23:10:22 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:10:22 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re various References: <93t2gd+46e7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008c01c07e7f$2bd50120$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9237 > Simon Biber may disagree with me about this. Howdya know? yeah it's common, but it's not right IMO. Simon. From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Sun Jan 14 23:29:27 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 17:29:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Potter for President Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9238 Just thought I would pipe in that while flippnig channels, i stopped on this old baseball movie that had brendan fraser in it (the scout maybe?) and In the stands at the very beginning, there are a few signs that say "Steve for President" in Spanish bc i am pretty sure it is in Mexico. I know this was an old topic but this made me think about it... Stephanie Who is bored out of her mind with no one to play backyard quidditch with _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 15 00:13:00 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffes MacGoo) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:13:00 -0000 Subject: OT grammer - useda coulda In-Reply-To: <008c01c07e7f$2bd50120$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <93tfac+f8kq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9239 Oh, I didn't say it was right just that it wasn't exclusivly texan. storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > Simon Biber may disagree with me about this. > > Howdya know? > > yeah it's common, but it's not right IMO. > > Simon. From m-drelichman at northwestern.edu Mon Jan 15 02:34:55 2001 From: m-drelichman at northwestern.edu (Mauricio Drelichman) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 02:34:55 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody Message-ID: <93tnkf+3r6a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9240 Hi everybody! This is my first posting. I've tried to ensure that it hasn't been discussed before; please forgive me if it has. I was most intrigued by Crouch Jr's ability to fool everybody at Hogwarts, and particularly Dumbledore, into believing he was the real Moody. Under the influence of Veritaserum, Crouch Jr. explains how he kept the real Moody alive to learn about his past and his habits, as well as to obtain the hairs he needed for the Polyjuice potion. The impersonated Moody also teaches DADA as the real one would have, even breaking the law under Dumbledore's instructions (or just with Dumbledore's consent). In Chapter 15 of GoF, Moody places the Imperius curse on each of the students, and is particularly intent on teaching Harry to resist it. However, this resistance will eventually enable Harry to resist Voldemort's Imperius and keep on fighting. If he hadn't been able to do so, the duel would have been over pretty soon. So why does Moody teach Harry so well to resist the Imperius, and seems so enthusiastic with his success? Is he under special instructions from Dumbledore? I don't think so; he could have said that Harry wouldn't learn to resist it after the first try. And why would Dumbledore suspect that Harry would need that particular ability in the near future? Another theory is that Moody wanted Harry to resist Voldemort's Imperius, so that he could return and he, Crouch, could hand Harry personally to the Dark Lord. But this would mean assuming that Crouch would also have predicted the outcome of the duel beforehand, which seems somewhat far-fetched. Any other ideas floating? By the way, wonderful group. Loved it lurking and reading old posts! Mauricio From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 15 03:18:44 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:18:44 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93tnkf+3r6a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93tq6k+lubv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9241 > I was most intrigued by Crouch Jr's ability to fool everybody at > Hogwarts, and particularly Dumbledore, into believing he was > the real Moody To say nothing of his ability to do very high level magic, even though he would have had little chance to learn how. He would have left Hogwarts just a year or so before being sent to Azkaban, then spent the rest of his life until the events of GF under the Imperius Curse and shut away without a wand. So when did he have a chance to become so powerful that he could defeat Moody, keep him captive, confund the Goblet of Fire, and so on? > > So why does Moody teach Harry so well to resist the Imperius, This one makes perfect sense to me. He is intensely curious about Harry. He wants to determine what about this skinny, untrained kid could have allowed him to defeat the Dark Lord, his master. He is testing Herry, finding out under the guise of a lesson just what power he has. There was no way that he could know that his actions would have enabled Harry to survive a battle with Voldemort yet again a few months later. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Mon Jan 15 03:35:47 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 21:35:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Draco/Dudley comparison (was: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr.) References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE55@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <3A627013.31973205@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9242 ABoyko at starchoice.com wrote: > I think of the Malfoys as the wizard equivalent of the > Dursleys. They're going to get their comeuppance the same way the Dursleys > have been getting theirs (ballooning aunts, ton-tongues). This is an elegant structural observation. After all, the major preoccupation for both the Dursleys and the Malfoys is that they be grouped with "the right sort." And both Dursley and Draco act as Harry's nemesis, in the muggle world and wizard world respectively. What WOULD Draco and Dudley think of each other? Draco's family hates Muggles, but Draco and Dudley do have a lot in common. They're both greedy, both bullies, esp. toward Harry, etc. Structural twins. And both are the products of their parents' and particularly their fathers' rotten values. Perhaps they would recognize each other as kindred spirits in a sick, twisted way. Huh. Good point, Angela. Peg From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Jan 15 03:34:54 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 03:34:54 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93tnkf+3r6a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93tr4u+7d1h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9243 Welcome, Mauricio -- The whole Moody/Crouch plot in GoF has been one of my pet peeves. There are several aspects of it that don't ring true to me. I agree with the points that you raise, and I particularly question the plausibility of the elaborate scheme to make Harry the winner of the third round of the Triwizard tourney. If they wanted to get Harry to Voldemort, there were surely much more direct and certain ways to do it than to turn the trophy into a portkey! I also thought that it was implausible that Crouch Jr. would have the knowledge of advanced magic that he appears to have. After all, he was just a youth when he went to Azkaban, and after his "escape" he was under the Imperius Curse up until the time of the World Cup. So when did he have time to learn enough magic to completely fool Dumbledore and remain undetected for nearly a whole school year? Questions like the ones that you raise may not have clear answers, but they are excellent fodder for discussion. After all, what is there to do until the movie and the next book come out? Thanks for your post. I hope you'll enjoy HPfGU. Jim Flanagan Moderator Team --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mauricio Drelichman" wrote: > I was most intrigued by Crouch Jr's ability to fool everybody at > Hogwarts, and particularly Dumbledore, into believing he was > the real Moody. Under the influence of Veritaserum, Crouch Jr. > explains how he kept the real Moody alive to learn about his past > and his habits, as well as to obtain the hairs he needed for the > Polyjuice potion. The impersonated Moody also teaches DADA > as the real one would have, even breaking the law under > Dumbledore's instructions (or just with Dumbledore's consent). > > In Chapter 15 of GoF, Moody places the Imperius curse on each > of the students, and is particularly intent on teaching Harry to > resist it. However, this resistance will eventually enable Harry to > resist Voldemort's Imperius and keep on fighting. If he hadn't > been able to do so, the duel would have been over pretty soon. > > So why does Moody teach Harry so well to resist the Imperius, > and seems so enthusiastic with his success? Is he under > special instructions from Dumbledore? I don't think so; he could > have said that Harry wouldn't learn to resist it after the first try. > And why would Dumbledore suspect that Harry would need that > particular ability in the near future? > > Another theory is that Moody wanted Harry to resist Voldemort's > Imperius, so that he could return and he, Crouch, could hand > Harry personally to the Dark Lord. But this would mean > assuming that Crouch would also have predicted the outcome of > the duel beforehand, which seems somewhat far-fetched. > > Any other ideas floating? By the way, wonderful group. Loved it > lurking and reading old posts! > > Mauricio From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Jan 15 03:46:54 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:46:54 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Rowling the artist In-Reply-To: <93t73s+erph@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010114194351.00c29950@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9244 At 09:53 PM 1/14/01 +0000, eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: >I was stunned, I had absolutely no idea she >was such a fine artist! Even more stunning (and pleasing) this is the >first time I've ever seen a picture of Harry that conformed with my >mental picture of him, and it doesn't have the slightest resemblance >to that jerk on the cover who claims he's Harry Potter. I quite agree... In the 60 Minutes segment they also showed a picture she did of Dumbledore, McGonnegal, Hagrid, and baby Harry. I like her depictions *much* better than GranPre's. -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Jan 15 04:05:38 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:05:38 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93tr4u+7d1h@eGroups.com> References: <93tnkf+3r6a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010114195159.00c2aa50@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9245 At 03:34 AM 1/15/01 +0000, Jim Flanagan wrote: >If they wanted to get Harry to >Voldemort, there were surely much more direct and certain ways to do >it than to turn the trophy into a portkey! We're back to my theory that you can't make portkeys in Hogwarts and Crouch could only make the Cup a portkey because it was one already, and it was just a matter of "reprogramming" it. But someone made an interesting point on the HP newsgroup the other day: Part of Voldemort's motivation may be to publicly embarrass Dumbledore, and what better way to do so that to snatch Harry out from under his nose in front of a crowd at the climax of the Triwizard Tournament, not only showing up Dumbledore as not infallible, but also undermining all his talk of the TT as a safe means of strengthening international relations. -- Dave From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 04:27:21 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:27:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter obsession Message-ID: <20010115042721.6257.qmail@web218.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9246 --- Simon wrote: > yael (who's afraid she'd get kicked out of this list > for her measly 33% > addiction. Luckily i write fanfic, or it would have > been 28%. - All right, > i'll go hide under my desk now). > > I would not worry - I only got 33% addiction. > > The quiz is not all that useful as it refers to SS > rather than PS, so I miss > out on lots of things I would otherwise tick. > > If I can count the ones referring to SS as being ok > if I have read PS then I > get 56% rating. > > Still not particularly high when I consider how much > of my time is spent > with HP stuff! > > Simon > I got 67% and it still says I'm not obsessed, but could be. Nothing there to count the fact that I've read the books in 2 languages! Well, I'm still reading the French, it's pretty slow going as I'm very much out of practice (and had to buy a French-English dictionary the other day as I've sent the English versions out on loan and have nothing to compare to). Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From atelecky at mit.edu Mon Jan 15 04:38:15 2001 From: atelecky at mit.edu (atelecky at mit.edu) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:38:15 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody (long) In-Reply-To: <93tr4u+7d1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93turn+2q47@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9247 > > I also thought that it was implausible that Crouch Jr. would have the > knowledge of advanced magic that he appears to have. After all, he > was just a youth when he went to Azkaban, and after his "escape" he > was under the Imperius Curse up until the time of the World Cup. So > when did he have time to learn enough magic to completely fool > Dumbledore and remain undetected for nearly a whole school year? I recall Sirius saying in GoF that when Snape first went to Hogwarts, he "knew more curses than most seventh years" or something along those lines. Harry himself has learned quite a bit on the side from all his studying of protective curses with Hermione and Ron, and even from the dueling club that he went to once. Clearly its possible to learn extra magic on the side, especially if you come from a wizarding family. Taught by his own father's coldness to be himself cold to emotions, Crouch jr. went over to Voldemort at a young age and likely learned a great deal from his new master and his new friends. It also seems that confounding the Goblet was an act requiring magical strength and prowess more than knowledge, but as far as the latter is concerned Crouch certainly would have had Voldemort's aid in preparing for this curse. As for the former, Sirius says also in GoF that Crouch Sr. is "powerfully magical", so it would make sense for his son to inherit his father's talent. But most of all, I imagine that Crouch Sr., as a member of an old, wealthy, and prestigious pureblood wizarding family, and as an ambitious and proud man, would have seen to it that his son had all the tutors and training he could ever need, and would have had the money and resources to do so. He would have pressured his son to study hard and to succeed--as indeed Crouch jr. did, for when Crouch Sr. was raving, he mentioned that his son recieved equally as many OWL's as Percy Weasley later did. The elder Crouch may not have loved his son, but nonetheless, to an ambitious man like that, his son would have been an extension of himself and his own reputation--whatever he felt about the boy, it would have been important to the elder Crouch that his son's reputation and success match his own. Once his heir was publicly besmirched by the accusation of colluding with Voldemort, of course, Crouch had no further use for him or desire to be associated with him. And what about this unreal ability of Crouch's to feign friendship for Harry Potter, to make the students like him, to act well intentioned enough to fool even Dumbledore, while at the same time he plotted with considerable foresight and precision against the very people he was pretending every day to care for? Crouch was raised by a man who coldly dispensed of him when his reputation (whether he could have been proved innocent or not) became a liability. The elder Crouch was no less power hungry or ruthless than Voldemort, even if he did stand opposed to Voldemort. The young Crouch might as well have been raised by Voldemort himself, for all that he learned that personal relationships and the emotions of others are things of practical value to be manipulated for personal gain, and nothing more. When talking of his mother who died for him, all Crouch spoke of was how she had been of use in freeing him. One of the things which struck me at the end of the book, was how even the smallest things that Crouch did that displayed consideration or kindness, like giving Neville the book on water plants, were just further steps towards his final plan. Voldemort also shows this sort of coldness, speaking of how both his own father and Harry's mother "had their uses". I believe that Crouch's ability to come so close to the people whom he was to betray and murder and remain always unmoved, even to the end, by how well he must have gotten to know each and every one of them, was very effective in showing the power of Voldemort's evil to corrupt a witch or wizard until, as Hagrid said in PoA, "There's nothing and no one that matters to them anymore." Sorry about the wordy post, Alexandra From s_ings at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 04:41:41 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 20:41:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] re dialects/grammar Message-ID: <20010115044141.17310.qmail@web216.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9248 --- Snuffes MacGoo wrote: > "used to could" > > Maybe I'm a more badly spoken Aust than most but I > use this phrase. > Course it sounds more like > "she useda coulda run all day but now I gotta make > sure she take > breaks cause she's never gunna done learn that it > makes her back's > sore but eh?" > > (ie I have a sight hound who loves to run all day > but now must be > made to take breaks or she will hurt herself.) The > `but eh?' or `eh > but?' and making things that are statements > questions is very common. > The use of `learn' instead of `teach' is common too > ie (chiding > someone after they have done something silly) `don't > s'pose that'll > learn ya not to do it again but eh?' I've been sitting back for the last few days, chuckling over these posts. It dawned on me that I'm guilty of a few myself, having spent some of my formative childhood living in Newfoundland. They don't just have a dialect, it would have to be considered a separate language - though it is English. My maternal grandmother (who was born in England) was appalled at how I spoke when we came back from Newfoundland, especially when I told her to "stay where you be, I'll come where you're at"! I still spend a great deal of time in the Maritimes, where we say things like 'boughten' bread to refer to what you buy as opposed to make yourself. Other than that, Canadians are prone to adding 'eh' to the end of all sentences - unless you live in Quebec, then you add 'quoi' (though it must be pronounced so that you sound like some type of pregnant duck!). Enough, I'm rambling, eh. Must be time for bed, eh? Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From brandgwen at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 04:45:11 2001 From: brandgwen at hotmail.com (brandgwen at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 04:45:11 -0000 Subject: Trelawney and the Centaurs In-Reply-To: <000401c079da$3a55b220$5db191d8@computer> Message-ID: <93tv8n+phmp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9249 "Rachelle Elliott" wrote: We have 2 primary ways to refer to Lord Voldermort: Lord Voldermort and He-who-must-not-be-named. Others such as Draco Malfoy, Lucius Malfoy, Crouch, Barty J.R., ('evil' or potentially evil wizards) call Voldermort the 'Dark Lord'. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Here is the dilema: Why does Professor Trelawney, in her prediction in PoA Chapter 16, refer to him as the 'Dark Lord?' Was she on the other side or was it meerly an accident? Very interesting. It seems to me that the term "Dark Lord" implies a level of familiarity with Voldemort. That is not to say that the term is any less formal than "He-who-...", but, rather would be used in his presence. "He-who-..." is to "The Queen" as "Dark Lord" is to "Your Majesty". It suggests that the individual has spoken to him in person. It is no less correct, and so, may not be picked up if you are assuming the individual is innocent. However, in conjunction with other clues, it may be something of a tell. A person who uses this phrase is or was in contact with Voldemort, or picked it up from someone who is/was. In the case of Trelawney, I'm yet to be convinced that she is a baddie. I just think she's just a nutter. While she does use the phrase "Dark Lord" after her prediction, it is in response to Harry's quoting her previous words. She then restates the phrase using her own words. " 'The Dark Lord? He Who Must Not Be Named? My dear boy, that's hardly something to joke about... rise again, indeed...' " What interests me, though, is the fact that, when making predictions, Trelawney does use someone else's voice and someone else's language. Thus far, I have assumed she was speaking for the fates, but what if she's not a seer at all? What if she's just the unwitting dummy and the seer-ventriliquist is somewhere in the shadows? Here's a scatter-brained theory; as yet, we don't know what the Centaurs call Voldemort. It is possbile that they know and have spoken with him, if only to refuse him their assistance. In PS, Bane says " 'Remember, Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against the heavens...' " Sworn to whom? Maybe, having seen the impending bloodshed in the stars, the Centaurs made a deal with Voldemort - leave us alone and we won't oppose you. However, as things got bad, this became too much for certain of the Centaurs. Rather than openly break their truce, they used a human mouthpiece to get their message to Dumbledore. That is why Bane and Ronan are so edgy about Firenze helping Harry - they know they are already on thin ice. Young Firenze, however, does not. Just an idea, Gwen. From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 05:06:38 2001 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:06:38 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93tnkf+3r6a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93u0gu+tnoo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9250 "Mauricio Drelichman" wrote: > So why does Moody teach Harry so well to resist the Imperius, This point has been brought out before and I don't think Moody taught him anything about the imperious curse because you can't teach what you don't know. The fake Moody (and the real one too) took years to overcome the imperious curse and even then were only partially successful. Crouch senior, a pretty formidable character also, found it enormously difficult to resist. Harry, just a 14 year old boy, defeated the Imperious Curse completely in just a few minutes on only his second try. For some reason the curse was kid stuff to Harry, he wasn't taught how, it just came naturally, resisting it was easy. > and seems so enthusiastic with his success? He was just a good actor, I doubt he was really pleased at Harry's Strength. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 15 05:07:07 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffes MacGoo) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:07:07 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93tr4u+7d1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93u0hr+igq7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9251 Jim said I also thought that it was implausible that Crouch Jr. would have the > knowledge of advanced magic that he appears to have. After all, he > was just a youth when he went to Azkaban, and after his "escape" he > was under the Imperius Curse up until the time of the World Cup. So > when did he have time to learn enough magic to completely fool > Dumbledore and remain undetected for nearly a whole school year? Perhaps he was like Snape, who came to school knowing more about dark arts than most 7th years?. Also what did he really need to know, the imperius curse, about polyjuice (ignore the spelling - please) which they made in 2nd year, some forbidden curses and a lot of cunning. storm PS The whole tornoument thing is a very convelouted plot devise though. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 15 05:19:23 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:19:23 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz In-Reply-To: <3A5FC7D7.2385BC72@texas.net> Message-ID: <93u18r+1npj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9252 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > > > The Young Adult books section of about.com has a "Harry Potter Obsession > > Quiz" It's located at: > > > > http://yabooks.about.com/teens/yabooks/bl_potter_obsessedquiz.htm > > > > I'm 94% obsessed! > > 72%. I have to reserve at least 8% per kid, I suppose (leaving only 4% for > housework, job-searching, and what was that other? oh yeah, husband...) > > --Amanda I'm a little annoyed that I'm only 78% obsessed. I haven't adopted any new pets, if I did I might name one Hedwig, but my son (age 3) has already decreed that the next animal will be named Obi Wan. Far be it from me to argue..... Who knows how to do the quiz thing tech wise..I'd be happy to work on the questions...We could do our own quiz...we could award levels of the Order of the Phoenix to those who pass the quizes...Order of the Phoenix Fourth Class... Is Mad Eye Moody's mad eye the right one or the left? Name a Durmstrang student other than Viktor Krum? How many presents does Dursley get for his birthday? How many turns must Hermione go back so as to rescue Sirius and Buckbeak? What charm does Molly Weasley use to search Gred and Forge? What character has dirt on his nose prior to his sorting? What is Colin Creevy's little brother's name and what happens to him before his sorting? Whose Remembrall causes Harry to get a Nimbus 2000? Name the executioner for the MofM? What is Boobur pus used for? I could go on........ decreed From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 15 05:29:46 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:29:46 -0000 Subject: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience In-Reply-To: <93qa1k+2mf0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93u1sa+r466@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9253 Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that flowers as he grows older..... Susan From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 15 05:31:11 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:31:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody References: <93tnkf+3r6a@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010114195159.00c2aa50@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A628B1E.D64C0F2F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9254 Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 03:34 AM 1/15/01 +0000, Jim Flanagan wrote: > >If they wanted to get Harry to > >Voldemort, there were surely much more direct and certain ways to do > >it than to turn the trophy into a portkey! > > We're back to my theory that you can't make portkeys in Hogwarts > and Crouch could only make the Cup a portkey because it was one > already, and it was just a matter of "reprogramming" it. > > But someone made an interesting point on the HP newsgroup the > other day: Part of Voldemort's motivation may be to publicly > embarrass Dumbledore, and what better way to do so that to snatch > Harry out from under his nose in front of a crowd at the climax of the > Triwizard Tournament, Remember, also, that they might have waited until that moment to take Harry, because then the newly embodied Voldemort could then return via the Portkey to a made-to-order assembly of his enemies, unaware of his existence as yet and ready to be taken in a surprise attack. I believe this was the plan, and this is why Barty Jr. waited and went through the whole rigamarole with the Tournament, so that his Lord could get a surprise attack on a group of most, if not all, of the most important of the opposing side. It would have been even more devastating had Voldemort brought the Death Eaters with him, which he doubtless would have, to (a) help and (b) witness his triumph--for with the Ministry of Magic officials and the Hogwarts administration out of the way, who then could stand before him? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 15 05:37:13 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:37:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Time-Turner Casting (was Worst-Case Casting) References: <93rai6+ui88@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A628C89.355A8985@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9255 Caius Marcius wrote: > A few preliminary suggestions off the top of my head. > > Albus Dumbledore - Alec Guinness Okay, I like this choice as much as my own personal selection of Peter O'Toole. > Severus Snape - Basil Rathbone (Rickman as Snape? don't make me > laugh - Rathbone owns this role) I've seen a lot of both of these gentleman, and I must respectfully disagree. Both of them have great presence and voice, but I think Rickman takes the edge with his pronounced ability to do "unspoken" acting, with facial expression and posture, and which the role of Snape *must* have. > Gilderoy Lockhart - Errol Flynn Genius. > Sirius Black - Richard Burton Oh, yes. > Lord Voldemort - Peter Sellers (we usually think of Sellers in terms > of Inspector Clousseau, but he had a special flair for darkness - > just think of Dr. Strangelove!) No, no, the velvet voice of yesteryear, he who glowers so well that smiles look odd--James Mason! I think Katharine Hepburn would have been a good McGonagall, now that I think of it, eh? --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 15 05:38:10 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:38:10 -0000 Subject: Fw: [WitchesThree] Fw: Humor How to be an Evil Cultist(or Wizard) In-Reply-To: <00e301c07d9e$4939bf80$242d07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <93u2c2+igm6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9256 > > ICQ: 10 44 52 471 > YM: bludger_witch > > 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the > great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to > say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' > > -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) This is the problem with being a witch. If we are WRONG, and fill someone's bones with hot lead who doesn't deserve it, we will suddenly wake up to find OUR bones filled with hot lead times three. Not pretty. If we are RIGHT, and they get their just desserts, then we will get our just desserts. Thank you, I'll pass... Susan From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 15 05:38:32 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:38:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Rat question References: <93r8sb+fdki@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A628CD8.7BD6BB42@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9257 Caius Marcius wrote: > BTW, Chapter 11 of Hans Zinnser's Rats, Lice and History (1935) is a > definitive exploration of the role that the rat has played in Western > history. Apparently, the rat entered Europe in relatively recent > historical terms, perhaps as recently as 700 AD. Which kind of rat? The brown, or the black? Does it say? --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 15 05:40:52 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 05:40:52 -0000 Subject: Netiquette Tips (admin) - please read this In-Reply-To: <00ed01c07df0$d1429a80$0a3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <93u2h4+hbb6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9258 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > NETIQUETTE TIPS > This is a general announcement e-owl from the Moderators - not aimed at anyone in particular - and, hey, it makes jolly good bedtime reading! > > Members, new and old, are requested to observe the following Netiquette: > > **Virgin posters > > Read a few days' worth of messages before posting your own. You can do this either by "lurking" (reading messages, but not writing them) for a few days, or by going back through the most recent messages (a daunting task, with such an active group). This way, you'll get a "feel" for the group, and you can make sure you're not repeating something that has been posted recently by someone else. > > **Keep the subject line relevant to the content of the post > > Message board conversations, like "real life" ones, will often drift from one subject to another. If the subject line does not change to fit the direction of the conversation, it can frustrate the reader. When replying to a message, please take the time to check the subject line and make sure it still matches your post. For example, if the subject line says: "RE: Who's going to die in the next book?" and the topic has segued into a character matchmaking debate (with no mention of death), it's time to change the subject line! > > **Keep your posts on topic > > In such a large and active group, it's easy to let discussions go off on tangents. If a couple of you find something in common other than Harry Potter, wonderful! Getting to know people is, perhaps, the best thing about clubs. But if you find your discussion getting away from the main point of the club, please continue it off-list. > > **One-line and ultra-short posts > > As our message volume is very high, one-line posts can push the numbers through the roof, so please take a moment to consider the following:- > > * Consider expanding on your point. For example, if you are posing a question about the HP books ("What about so-and-so?"), could you add some thoughts of your own to lead off any discussion? > > * Consider combining your shorter points/responses with a few others in a multi-topic post, making sure the topic line indicates this. However, if your point is substantive (or just plain lengthy), it is best to give it space on its own to make the thread easier to follow. > > * Try to avoid "me too!" and "LOL!" posts that have absolutely no other content. > > * Sometimes a brief response is perfectly acceptable; for example, if you are correcting an error someone has made and do not have much else to say (e.g. "You cannot apparate into Hogwarts!") or giving information that you don't want to bury in another message ("The link to that article about Dumbledore's socks is at http://www.anyoldwebsite.com"). > > **Response posts > > If you are replying to a message, please indicate the name of the person who wrote the original and include any relevant segments of their post, or a brief summary of their point(s). At the same time, please try to delete any parts of the original post that are not relevant to your point(s), especially if the original was really long! Remember, also, that if you respond in a fresh post rather than using the 'reply' button, your response will not appear in the "replies to this message" in any search. > > **Take the time to proofread your posts > > If you're used to forums where speed is important (chat rooms, role playing games, etc.), it's easy to fall out of the habit of proofreading. Here, however, your post will be as relevant in five minutes (or, usually, even in five hours) as it is now. Before hitting the 'send' button, please take a few minutes to look over your post and correct any typos, spelling/punctuation errors, or problems with sentence structure or capitalization. This will make it much easier to read and help in getting across your point. > > Please avoid using all lower case letters or, worse still, all CAPITAL LETTERS. > > **Be considerate of other members' feelings > > If you disagree with someone's message, no matters how strongly, remember to respect the other person's right to his or her own opinion. If you do wish to refute the post, do so gently, by building up your own case, rather than knocking down the other person's. And never attack your fellow club members (name calling, personal remarks, etc). > > Thank you for reading! > > Your Moderators > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SWINE! fooool!!!! LOL (how many rules can I break at once?) From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 15 06:13:37 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 00:13:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz References: <93u18r+1npj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A629510.8B98213C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9259 Okay, I tried Susan's test off the top of my head, without referencing books or getting up or anything, with several months (including months with major holidays therein) since I've read any of the books. Susan, please compute my grade sometime... Susan McGee wrote: > Is Mad Eye Moody's mad eye the right one or the left? Right, I think.... > Name a Durmstrang student other than Viktor Krum? Ugh. Ummm.... > How many presents does Dursley get for his birthday? 39. > How many turns must Hermione go back so as to rescue Sirius and > Buckbeak? Three. > What charm does Molly Weasley use to search Gred and Forge? Accio. > What character has dirt on his nose prior to his sorting? Ron? > What is Colin Creevy's little brother's name and what happens to him > before his sorting? Dennis, and he fell out of the boat on the way over the lake and the giant squid rescued him. > Whose Remembrall causes Harry to get a Nimbus 2000? Neville's. > Name the executioner for the MofM? Oooh, I *know* this... > What is Boobur pus used for? Bubotuber pus. Among other things, acne potions, but unprocessed pus can cause burns. > I could go on........ You should; this was a blast! A real test, finally, instead of those insipid easy things! --Amanda From klaatu at primenet.com Mon Jan 15 06:40:14 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 23:40:14 -0700 Subject: Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) In-Reply-To: <93u1sa+r466@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9260 I'm interested in Harry's ability to do astral traveling while he's asleep. He witnessed the scene with Voldemort, Wormtail, Nagini, and old Frank in his dream. I wonder if he will have similar dreams in the future. Would Ron's natural gift for prediction of future events be harmed if he became aware of it? Would he be so alarmed at developing a Trelawney-oriented talent that he would deliberately try to suppress it? Would he or Harry or Hermione be inclined to trust in the veracity of Ron's predictions, or would they wonder that he was "forcing" his intuition? Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to psychic powers? SML -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [mailto:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 10:30 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that flowers as he grows older..... Susan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 15 08:25:06 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:25:06 -0000 Subject: Chat transcripts? Message-ID: <93uc52+42hm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9261 Where can I find the transcript for last night's chat (how long did it go on a after I called it a night at 2am, anyway?)? Keith From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 15 11:08:24 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:08:24 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz In-Reply-To: <3A629510.8B98213C@texas.net> Message-ID: <93uln8+8h5f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9262 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > Name a Durmstrang student other than Viktor Krum? > Ugh. Ummm.... Poliakoff (who has dribbbled all down the front of his robe) > > > Name the executioner for the MofM? > Oooh, I *know* this... Walden Macnair. I was complaining about his given name just the other day. From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 15 11:11:09 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:11:09 -0000 Subject: Chat transcripts? In-Reply-To: <93uc52+42hm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93ulsd+8uud@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9263 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote: > Where can I find the transcript for last night's chat (how long did > it go on a after I called it a night at 2am, anyway?)? http://www.egroups.com/messages/HPforGrownupsChatScripts I only posted it as a message (in .txt) rather than as a file (.htm). From donna.rae at verizon.net Mon Jan 15 11:30:43 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 06:30:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody (long) References: <93turn+2q47@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <056d01c07ee6$98fbf1c0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9264 This may be a stupid question, but I've always wondered why Dumbledore didn't use the time-turner to go back and reprogram the trophy so it was no longer a portkey. If he allowed Harry and Hermione to use it to save Buckbeak and Sirius' life, wouldn't it be considered more important to save Cedric's life and keep Voldemort from regaining power? Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody (long) > > > > > I also thought that it was implausible that Crouch Jr. would have > the > > knowledge of advanced magic that he appears to have. After all, he > > was just a youth when he went to Azkaban, and after his "escape" he > > was under the Imperius Curse up until the time of the World Cup. So > > when did he have time to learn enough magic to completely fool > > Dumbledore and remain undetected for nearly a whole school year? > > I recall Sirius saying in GoF that when Snape first went to Hogwarts, > he "knew more curses than most seventh years" or something along those > lines. Harry himself has learned quite a bit on the side from all his > studying of protective curses with Hermione and Ron, and even from the > dueling club that he went to once. Clearly its possible to learn > extra magic on the side, especially if you come from a wizarding > family. Taught by his own father's coldness to be himself cold to > emotions, Crouch jr. went over to Voldemort at a young age and > likely learned a great deal from his new master and his new friends. > It also seems that confounding the Goblet was an act requiring magical > strength and prowess more than knowledge, but as far as the latter is > concerned Crouch certainly would have had Voldemort's aid in preparing > for this curse. As for the former, Sirius says also in GoF that Crouch > Sr. is "powerfully magical", so it would make sense for his son to > inherit his father's talent. > But most of all, I imagine that Crouch Sr., as a member of an old, > wealthy, and prestigious pureblood wizarding family, and as an > ambitious and proud man, would have seen to it that his son had all > the tutors and training he could ever need, and would have had the > money and resources to do so. He would have pressured his son to study > hard and to succeed--as indeed Crouch jr. did, for when Crouch Sr. was > raving, he mentioned that his son recieved equally as many OWL's as > Percy Weasley later did. The elder Crouch may not have loved his son, > but nonetheless, to an ambitious man like that, his son would have > been an extension of himself and his own reputation--whatever he felt > about the boy, it would have been important to the elder Crouch that > his son's reputation and success match his own. Once his heir was > publicly besmirched by the accusation of colluding with Voldemort, of > course, Crouch had no further use for him or desire to be associated > with him. > And what about this unreal ability of Crouch's to feign friendship for > Harry Potter, to make the students like him, to act well intentioned > enough to fool even Dumbledore, while at the same time he plotted with > considerable foresight and precision against the very people he was > pretending every day to care for? Crouch was raised by a man who > coldly dispensed of him when his reputation (whether he could have > been proved innocent or not) became a liability. The elder Crouch was > no less power hungry or ruthless than Voldemort, even if he did stand > opposed to Voldemort. The young Crouch might as well have been raised > by Voldemort himself, for all that he learned that personal > relationships and the emotions of others are things of practical value > to be manipulated for personal gain, and nothing more. When talking of > his mother who died for him, all Crouch spoke of was how she had been > of use in freeing him. One of the things which struck me at the end of > the book, was how even the smallest things that Crouch did that > displayed consideration or kindness, like giving Neville the book on > water plants, were just further steps towards his final plan. > Voldemort also shows this sort of coldness, speaking of how both his > own father and Harry's mother "had their uses". I believe that > Crouch's ability to come so close to the people whom he was to betray > and murder and remain always unmoved, even to the end, by how well > he must have gotten to know each and every one of them, was very > effective in showing the power of Voldemort's evil to corrupt a witch > or wizard until, as Hagrid said in PoA, "There's nothing and no one > that matters to them anymore." > > Sorry about the wordy post, > Alexandra > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 11:44:02 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:44:02 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93tr4u+7d1h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93unq2+qlfa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9265 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > > The whole Moody/Crouch plot in GoF has been one of my pet peeves. > There are several aspects of it that don't ring true to me. I agree > with the points that you raise, and I particularly question the > plausibility of the elaborate scheme to make Harry the winner of the > third round of the Triwizard tourney. If they wanted to get Harry to > Voldemort, there were surely much more direct and certain ways to do > it than to turn the trophy into a portkey! > > I also thought that it was implausible that Crouch Jr. would have the > knowledge of advanced magic that he appears to have. After all, he > was just a youth when he went to Azkaban, and after his "escape" he > was under the Imperius Curse up until the time of the World Cup. So > when did he have time to learn enough magic to completely fool > Dumbledore and remain undetected for nearly a whole school year? > I'm glad you've bought this issue up, because I've been wanting to discuss it for some time and keep forgetting about it. For me, the Crouch/Moody thing is the weakest point of the book (which is my favorite, BTW). Not only bc of the plot problems, which can be explained away, more or less, but bc the solution is so arbitrary. I'm thinking of mystery novels now, especially of Agatha Christie. What makes her books so good is that the solution is both surprising *and* "obvious". That is, she constructs the plot and the characters in such a way that when the solution is revealed, you smack your head and say "*of course* its the butler!!". I don't know how to call this - coherence? integrity? In any case, it is lacking, IMO, in the Moody-is-actualy- Crouch solution. My reaction, at least, was "Oh, so its the butler (Moody)..." in a very minor key. Does anybody have other thoughts on this? Were there clues or hints that I missed? Naama From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Mon Jan 15 12:49:00 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:49:00 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody (long) Message-ID: <01c07ef1$88294cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 9266 >This may be a stupid question, but I've always wondered why Dumbledore >didn't use the time-turner to go back and reprogram the trophy so it was >no longer a portkey. Well, I always thouht that Hermione got her time-turner from the Ministry, not from her teachers. So, Dumbledore wasn't able to use it - he couldn't go and ask Fudge to lend him one, could he? Monika From rhodhry at yahoo.no Mon Jan 15 13:10:41 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:10:41 +0100 (CET) Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz Message-ID: <20010115131041.4079.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9267 --- HPforGrownups at egroups.com skrev: > Okay, I tried Susan's test off the top of my head, without referencing > books or getting up or anything, with several months (including months > with major holidays therein) since I've read any of the books. Susan, > please compute my grade sometime... As did I, but I am on digest (and in the wrong timezone), so I never get to hand in the answers in time. > Susan McGee wrote: [snip] > > What is Boobur pus used for? > > Bubotuber pus. Among other things, acne potions, but unprocessed pus can > cause burns. Boils, actually - not burns. A boil is (according to my mother's trusted copy of the 1967 Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary of Current English) a "hard (usu red, often painful) poisoned swelling under the skin, which bursts when ripe." Quite an irony, when you think about it: the remedy for acne, when applied in concetrated form, will actually result in the evil big brother of acne. > > I could go on........ > > You should; this was a blast! A real test, finally, instead of those > insipid easy things! Seconded. ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From nickdeller at ntlworld.com Mon Jan 15 13:39:49 2001 From: nickdeller at ntlworld.com (nickdeller at ntlworld.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 13:39:49 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody (long) In-Reply-To: <056d01c07ee6$98fbf1c0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Message-ID: <93uuj5+10svv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9268 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Donna Rae" wrote: > This may be a stupid question, but I've always wondered why > Dumbledore didn't use the time-turner to go back and reprogram the > trophy so it was no longer a portkey. If he allowed Harry and > Hermione to use it to save Buckbeak and Sirius' life, wouldn't it > be considered more important to save Cedric's life and keep > Voldemort from regaining power? Delurking... It's not a stupid question at all, and this will be a confusing answer. Basically, you can't use the time-turner to change things that have already happened at the time you go back. All it can do is create an extra influence to make what has already happened happen. When Dumbledore reached the completion of the Buckbeak incident, he knew that "somebody" had already saved HP1 and Buckbeak, and had probably gained enough information to know that it must have been HP2 (I'd need to refer back to check the chronology's right, but HP1's reference to seeing his father was probably the giveaway). Then it was just a matter of making sure the next few minutes went according to plan by telling H/H where SB was being held, sending them back and letting the pattern complete itself. I think this is also why HG couldn't go back to the one lesson she missed when she was time-turning - once she'd subjectively missed it, she couldn't then "unmiss" it. Going back to change what had subjectively happened in the maze in GoF was a no-no, which is why it didn't happen. Yep, that was confusing... :-) I still have one puzzle about the time-turner though, and I hope it's not come up before - when there were two HP/HGs running around within hearing distance of each other, why did neither Lupin nor Snape apparently notice it on the Marauders' Map? Both were looking in the right place at about the right time. Any theories? Nick D. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 14:59:36 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:59:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) Moving OT References: Message-ID: <00b701c07f03$cf033fe0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9269 SML, (raising her hand) I do. I do it untrained, and not as often as those "psychic 1-800/900" folks, grins.... There have been several occasions, though that I have KNOWN something, spoken about it, and had it come true. (Example, my ex's now current brother-in-law. I was there the day those two met, and I looked to him, and said, they'll be getting married, in my know-voice... Halloween weekend just pass they were married in Michigan, 5 years after my prediction.) It happens quite often, along with personal "deja-vu" experiences. ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sister Mary Lunatic To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:40 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) I'm interested in Harry's ability to do astral traveling while he's asleep. He witnessed the scene with Voldemort, Wormtail, Nagini, and old Frank in his dream. I wonder if he will have similar dreams in the future. Would Ron's natural gift for prediction of future events be harmed if he became aware of it? Would he be so alarmed at developing a Trelawney-oriented talent that he would deliberately try to suppress it? Would he or Harry or Hermione be inclined to trust in the veracity of Ron's predictions, or would they wonder that he was "forcing" his intuition? Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to psychic powers? SML -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [mailto:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 10:30 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that flowers as he grows older..... Susan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pbnesbit at msn.com Mon Jan 15 14:21:14 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:21:14 -0000 Subject: Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) Moving OT In-Reply-To: <00b701c07f03$cf033fe0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <93v10q+ni9u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9270 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise R" wrote: > SML, > (raising her hand) > > I do. I do it untrained, and not as often as those "psychic 1- 800/900" folks, grins.... > > There have been several occasions, though that I have KNOWN something, spoken about it, and had it come true. > > (Example, my ex's now current brother-in-law. I was there the day those two met, and I looked to him, and said, they'll be getting married, in my know-voice... Halloween weekend just pass they were married in Michigan, 5 years after my prediction.) > > It happens quite often, along with personal "deja-vu" experiences. > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > I have those experiences too. Living in the "Bible Belt" as I do, I've learned to just not talk about it. Makes people kinda look at you funny. I have *no* idea where the gift came from. It's kind of a neat gift to have, if scary at times. (when those you love are in trouble or danger) > > ~~Dee~~ > :) > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > (Poppy Brite) > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > http://www.icq.com > > For those who love to cook: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sister Mary Lunatic > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:40 AM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) > > > I'm interested in Harry's ability to do astral traveling while he's asleep. > He witnessed the scene with Voldemort, Wormtail, Nagini, and old Frank in > his dream. I wonder if he will have similar dreams in the future. > > Would Ron's natural gift for prediction of future events be harmed if he > became aware of it? Would he be so alarmed at developing a > Trelawney-oriented talent that he would deliberately try to suppress it? > Would he or Harry or Hermione be inclined to trust in the veracity of Ron's > predictions, or would they wonder that he was "forcing" his intuition? > > Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict > future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out > to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this > ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to > psychic powers? > > SML > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan McGee [mailto:Schlobin at a...] > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 10:30 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience > > > Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we > see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that > flowers as he grows older..... > > Susan > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alw at wilsonllp.com Mon Jan 15 14:44:20 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 09:44:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) References: Message-ID: <018301c07f01$a4ffdb60$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 9271 Dee, you're braver than I was...I was going to wait until someone else said something. Psychic...no. At times an eerie sixth sense...yes - and it can be very disturbing. I was in a car accident about 5 years ago. Living in Atlanta, car accidents are a dime a dozen, but as I was sitting in traffic waiting to get onto the interstate, I *knew* I was going to get hit. Unfortunately, traffic prevented me from doing anything about it and I got on the interstate. I decided to be a good girl for a change and stay in the lane I eventually needed to be in...mile or two later I get rear ended by an SUV going 50 or 60 mph (I drive a much smaller car). I escaped remarkably unscathed...just some rotator cuff damage. However, the whole experience was very unsettling. On one hand, it could have, like many "predictions", been a self-fulfilling prophecy. I typically would get over a couple lanes and then got back into the lane I needed to avoid sitting in traffic. However, that day, I stayed put. If I had done what I normally did, would I have still gotten hit? Who knows - that opens up a whole new can of worms as to whether or not certain events are going to happen regardless of what we do. Back to Harry and company...I think Ron would have a very hard time coming to terms with his "gift". He, and just about everyone else he hangs out with, thinks so little of Divination, that I don't know if he could bring himself to accept that *he* had some talent with it. I would imagine that there are very few people who can successfully deal with *knowing* what's going to happen - especially when you're best friend is Harry Potter...the boy who by the age of 14 had faced Voldemort how many times now? You see him having to face Voldemort and getting hurt - as his best friend, I would think you'd want to do everything in your power to stop that from happening. How would you feel when you couldn't? Thinking about it, I have a little more tolerance for Professor Trelawney...no wonder she sticks to herself. If she has *any* ability, I would imagine that she would get tired of knowing that there's nothing she can do to prevent things from happening, because that does seem to be her stance on things - that the future is already set. Amy ----- Original Message ----- From: Sister Mary Lunatic To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 1:40 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) I'm interested in Harry's ability to do astral traveling while he's asleep. He witnessed the scene with Voldemort, Wormtail, Nagini, and old Frank in his dream. I wonder if he will have similar dreams in the future. Would Ron's natural gift for prediction of future events be harmed if he became aware of it? Would he be so alarmed at developing a Trelawney-oriented talent that he would deliberately try to suppress it? Would he or Harry or Hermione be inclined to trust in the veracity of Ron's predictions, or would they wonder that he was "forcing" his intuition? Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to psychic powers? SML -----Original Message----- From: Susan McGee [mailto:Schlobin at aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 10:30 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that flowers as he grows older..... Susan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 03:40:29 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:40:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trelawney and the Centaurs References: <93tv8n+phmp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01e701c07f6e$1434ab20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9272 Stimulating thoughts, Gwen! > It seems to me that the term "Dark Lord" implies a level of > familiarity with Voldemort. [....] > A person who uses > this phrase is or was in contact with Voldemort, or picked it up from > someone who is/was. TRELAWNEY Hmmm. That's very well put. I was just going to counter that Dobby uses the term "Dark Lord" in CoS; but he could obviously have picked up the term from Lucky Luke. However, I managed to dredge up two other CoS instances: (1) Ernie of Hufflepuf says HWMNBN "didn't want another Dark Lord [sic] competing with him." Of course, Ernie could simply be using the term in a generic sense, but the capitolization seems to suggest that there is more to the term. (2) Ginny's bit of epic verse ("His hair is as dark as a blackboard / I wish he was mine, he's really divine, / The hero who conquered the Dark Lord") also employs the term (and gets more than a good day's work out of it). Of course, she was under the influence, but still ... (of evil, I mean.) OTOH, the black hats do seem to use the term more often, and Trewlaney *does* seem confused when Harry says she used it. Perhaps the term is connected to a hightened sense of his menace. CENTAURS Gwen continued, > It is possbile that they know and have > spoken with him, if only to refuse him their assistance. In PS, Bane > says " 'Remember, Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against > the heavens...' " Sworn to whom? Maybe, having seen the impending > bloodshed in the stars, the Centaurs made a deal with Voldemort - > leave us alone and we won't oppose you. Nggg. That's a fascinating theory, but I'm a little skeptical. I read that oath more as a Centaur cultural issue. I'd guess that Jo's Centaurs generally keep themselves out of human affairs (a little like the Ents in LOTR), and that their special gift for star gazing is connected to a tabu about meddling with the future. You only get to see the future if you promise not doing anything about it. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." Note: "Aberforth's Goat" is usually a human being. In fact, a mild-mannered anabaptist theologian with a wife, two children and a bad case of Harry Potter mania. From yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com Mon Jan 15 15:37:31 2001 From: yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com (yyhgnumberonejgn at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 10:37:31 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Rowling the artist Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9273 In a message dated 1/14/01 10:40:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, DaveH47 at mindspring.com writes: > >I was stunned, I had absolutely no idea she > >was such a fine artist! Even more stunning (and pleasing) this is the > >first time I've ever seen a picture of Harry that conformed with my > >mental picture of him, and it doesn't have the slightest resemblance > >to that jerk on the cover who claims he's Harry Potter. > > I quite agree... In the 60 Minutes segment they also showed a picture > she did of Dumbledore, McGonnegal, Hagrid, and baby Harry. I like > Is it possible to see any of these pics online? Does anyone know? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 15 16:10:51 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:10:51 -0000 Subject: Low Midnight (filk) Message-ID: <93v7eb+90u1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9274 Low Midnight (to the tune of Do Not Forsake Me, from the film High Noon) (The Scene: The Cemetery at Little Hangelton. The freshly resurrected LORD VOLDEMORT addresses the circle of Death Eaters) VOLDEMORT: You did forsake me, you death eaters And you guys are gonna pay You all forsook me except Peter Who wasn't worth much, anyway I think you know what fate awaits you And it involves a certain curse When you meet a Dark Lord in anger You better cower, it's best to cower Or you'll soon be riding in some hearse Now that I've mingled my blood with his'n I'll spring my gang from Azkaban prison Potter I'll be soon sendin' along Straight to the moon! Those like the Estranges who stayed loyal They're gonna get the treatment royal They weren't afraid of Dementors, but oh What shall I say of the Malfoys? Don't forsake me, you Death Eaters I now call in all of my chips Don't dare forsake me, you Death Eaters With Peter's hand off, let's break this stand-off And send Dumbledore to eclipse. Avada, Avada, Avada, Avada, (etc) .. - CMC From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 17:08:41 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:08:41 -0000 Subject: Low Midnight (filk) In-Reply-To: <93v7eb+90u1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vaqp+bcc6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9275 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Low Midnight > > (to the tune of Do Not Forsake Me, from the film High Noon) > > (The Scene: The Cemetery at Little Hangelton. The freshly resurrected > LORD VOLDEMORT addresses the circle of Death Eaters) > > VOLDEMORT: > You did forsake me, you death eaters > And you guys are gonna pay > You all forsook me except Peter > Who wasn't worth much, anyway > > I think you know what fate awaits you > And it involves a certain curse > When you meet a Dark Lord in anger > You better cower, it's best to cower > Or you'll soon be riding in some hearse > > Now that I've mingled my blood with his'n > I'll spring my gang from Azkaban prison > Potter I'll be soon sendin' along > Straight to the moon! > Those like the Estranges who stayed loyal > They're gonna get the treatment royal > They weren't afraid of Dementors, but oh > What shall I say of the Malfoys? > > Don't forsake me, you Death Eaters > I now call in all of my chips > Don't dare forsake me, you Death Eaters > With Peter's hand off, let's break this stand-off > And send Dumbledore to eclipse. > > Avada, Avada, Avada, Avada, (etc) .. > > - CMC This is absolutely brilliant - you have a real gift! You're like the Harry Potter version of Weird Al! Wait, that didn't sound nearly as flattering as I meant it to be... Seriously, I'm thoroughly entertained by these and grateful to you for the fun! kimberly From joym999 at aol.com Mon Jan 15 17:19:59 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:19:59 -0000 Subject: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience In-Reply-To: <004001c07d8e$cc9dde20$5c3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <93vbfv+eksi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9276 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Peg Kerr said: > > << anywhere? He's doing a lot better than Prof. Trelawney.>>> > > This is what I have so far in the (draft) Ron Weasley FAQ, taken from > discussions here (so there may be other examples):- > > *** > > Is Ron a seer? > > Some of Ron's comments have been interpreted as a demonstration of possible > psychic potential. Meg noted, for example, that in Chapter 13 of CoS, when > Ron, Harry, and Hermione are trying to figure out how Tom Riddle earned an > award for special services to the school, Ron says, "Maybe he murdered > Myrtle." This, of course, turns out to be true. (e-12/12/00, "Re: Character > summary: Professor Trelawney"). > > Paul Smitster brought attention to Ron's potential in Divination. When Ron > read's Harry's tea leaves in PoA he predicted "a windfall, unexpected gold". > Sister ML thought this could be another example of the theory that Ron is a > seer who doesn't realise his own abilities: Harry did get a windfall (and > gold) the next year, when, in GoF, he "won" 1000 Galleons for the Triwizard > Tournament. Catlady came up with an even earlier windfall: the leprechaun > gold that Ron had poured on him. Pippin then pointed out that Harry had had > a windfall even sooner than that: the Firebolt. > > Dave H noted that Ron had "predicted" that Harry would work for the MoM, > whilst Coleen (JusDucky) thought JKR had said that someone unlikely would > become a teacher at Hogwarts and suggested that Ron might take Trelawney's > place. Brandgwen imagined that under Professor Weasley's watchful eye, the > students might spend the Divination lessons seeing who could "lob the > crystal balls and tea cups . furthest out the window". (e-12/11/00 onwards, > "Talons & Tealeaves" thread) On the other hand, this may just be a device JKR is using to tease us. When you read through the books for the umpteenth time, you notice all sorts of foreshadowing. For example, GOF, chapter 21, which takes place right after the first task. During a party in the Gryffindor common room, the other students have just opened Harrys egg: "It was someone being tortured!" said Neville, who had gone very white and spilled sausage rolls all over the floor. "Youre going to have to fight the Cruciatus Curse!" "Dont be a prat, Neville, thats illegal," said George. "They wouldnt use the Cruciatus Curse on the champions. I thought it sounded a bit like Percy singing...maybe youve got to attack him while hes in the shower, Harry." Since it turns out that Harry DOES have to fight the Cruciatus Curse, and that the egg clue does have to do with the shower (well, the bath anyway) then maybe George and Neville are prescient too. However, I think its just JKR yanking our chains. --Joywitch From vmclure at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:27:51 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:27:51 -0000 Subject: Trelawney and the Centaurs In-Reply-To: <93tv8n+phmp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vbun+pobo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9277 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, brandgwen at h... wrote: > In the case of Trelawney, I'm yet to be convinced that she is a > baddie. I just think she's just a nutter. While she does use the > phrase "Dark Lord" after her prediction, it is in response to Harry's > quoting her previous words. She then restates the phrase using her > own words. > > " 'The Dark Lord? He Who Must Not Be Named? My dear boy, that's > hardly something to joke about... rise again, indeed...' " > > What interests me, though, is the fact that, when making predictions, > Trelawney does use someone else's voice and someone else's language. > Thus far, I have assumed she was speaking for the fates, but what if > she's not a seer at all? What if she's just the unwitting dummy and > the seer-ventriliquist is somewhere in the shadows? I agree. I doubt Trelawney would be a very good baddie--you couldn't count on her to have all of her bits of mental capacity in one place at the same time. > > Here's a scatter-brained theory; as yet, we don't know what the > Centaurs call Voldemort. It is possbile that they know and have > spoken with him, if only to refuse him their assistance. In PS, Bane > says " 'Remember, Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against > the heavens...' " Sworn to whom? Maybe, having seen the impending > bloodshed in the stars, the Centaurs made a deal with Voldemort - > leave us alone and we won't oppose you. However, as things got bad, > this became too much for certain of the Centaurs. Rather than openly > break their truce, they used a human mouthpiece to get their message > to Dumbledore. That is why Bane and Ronan are so edgy about Firenze > helping Harry - they know they are already on thin ice. Young > Firenze, however, does not. I always assumed they were sworn to their own code. That is, while they might know what is going to happen, they are sworn to keep their own council so that they are not on any side. The mythological equivalent to Switzerland, if you will. My mythology on Centaurs is somewhat hazy, but I always remember them as being rather apolitical beings who are not going to meddle in the affairs of others. And, I don't see them making any sort of deal with Voldemort. I think their "deep thinking" would keep them from that. Just a thought. Vic > > Just an idea, > Gwen. From vmclure at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:32:05 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:32:05 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93u0gu+tnoo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vc6l+b25m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9278 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > "Mauricio Drelichman" wrote: > > > So why does Moody teach Harry so well to resist the Imperius, > For some reason the curse was kid stuff to Harry, he > wasn't taught how, it just came naturally, resisting it was easy. > > > and seems so enthusiastic with his success? > > He was just a good actor, I doubt he was really pleased at Harry's > Strength. Or, he was pleased because Harry would then be an even more valuable prize. After all, if Harry were a squib, what would be the fun in killing him? Killing someone who is powerful is much more satisfying. And, it will mean Harry will have to fight and probably be in a very painful situation. After all the imperious curse takes all decision making away and makes the victim very comfortable. It's the fighting off that hurts. Vic From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 15 17:30:52 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:30:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lockhart's Valentines References: <93tv8n+phmp@eGroups.com> <01e701c07f6e$1434ab20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A6333CC.84B7D122@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9279 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > (2) Ginny's bit of epic verse ("His hair is as dark as a blackboard / I wish > he was mine, he's really divine, / The hero who conquered the Dark Lord") > also employs the term (and gets more than a good day's work out of it). Of > course, she was under the influence, but still ... (of evil, I mean.) I'm sorry, I must have missed this. Was there any stated evidence that Ginny actually sent this? I thought the dwarves were "seeder" Valentines that Lockhart sent out, to get people in the mood. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 15 17:35:54 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:35:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) References: Message-ID: <3A6334F9.53AB041F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9280 Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict > future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out > to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this > ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to > psychic powers? Well, my husband and I have the occasional very strong instinct to do something or other out of "pattern," but since we act on them, we have no idea what we might have just stepped out of the path of. On a related note, I was going to post this anyway, so I include it here. I had a dream yesterday, of which I remember nothing except one statement, which had been in the dream in the nature of a revelation from above: "The officer of old shall appear and command peace." This sounded so odd, even for my sort of dream, that I wanted to ask this well-read list if this is something I picked up from someplace. I read a bit of Nostradamus years ago, and lots of other stuff---does this ring a bell for anyone? Or have I pulled a Trelawney? --Amanda From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:36:40 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:36:40 -0000 Subject: Rowling the artist In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010114194351.00c29950@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <93vcf8+glvk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9281 eggplant wrote: >it doesn't have the slightest resemblance >to that jerk on the cover who claims he's Harry Potter. Ha ha ha! Oh now, I think he's sweet (at least on GoF--the others are goofy beyond words). JKR does say that she really likes Grandpre's drawings, though. So go figure. She's more tolerant of various interpretations than we are. Where can we get a look at the baby Harry et al. drawing, Dave? Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We didn't give it to him because he's a Muggle!" said Fred indignantly. "No, we gave it to him because he's a great bullying git," said George. "Isn't he, Harry?" "Yeah, he is, Mr. Weasley," said Harry earnestly. --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:35:02 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:35:02 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <3A628B1E.D64C0F2F@texas.net> Message-ID: <93vcc6+5j84@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9282 Re: Crouch / Moody Mauricio writes: >So why does Moody teach Harry so well to resist the Imperius, >and seems so enthusiastic with his success? Steve writes: >He is intensely curious about >Harry. He wants to determine what about this skinny, untrained kid >could have allowed him to defeat the Dark Lord, his master. He is >testing Herry, finding out under the guise of a lesson just what >power he has. There was no way that he could know that his actions >would have enabled Harry to survive a battle with Voldemort yet again >a few months later. Welcome, Mauricio! A big thumbs-up to Steve's response--thanks, this really sorts it out for me. As for undermining V, even someone less arrogant than Crouch would find it hard to believe that a 14-year-old kid is ever going to be able to withstand Voldemort. Besides, when it does come, V's attempted Imperius curse on Harry is just his idea of fun. All he has to do is kill him, and (according to Crouch/Moody at least) there's no defence whatsoever against that. Re: Moody's enthusiasm, I think it's kind of amusing. Maybe Crouch is a true teacher, can't help getting excited about a student's success even if the student is his ultimate enemy. And again, he's arrogant. He can applaud Harry's strength of will while secretly thinking, "It'll never stand up to My Master" (snuffle, lick boots). However, I agree with Jim: the whole scheme in GoF may be too elaborate, really. >If they wanted to get Harry to >Voldemort, there were surely much more direct and certain ways to do >it than to turn the trophy into a portkey! Like for example, turning ANYTHING into a portkey. Crouch could've done it with any item in his office anytime in the year. I think Dave's thing about not being able to make a new portkey in Hogwarts is plausible, but what is more plausible is that you can't USE one in Hogwarts (fits with the prohibitions on Apparating). If you can portkey in or out, it seems likely you can make a portkey there too. Amanda, your theory is really good. I wonder though, is it really wise for V to take on the entire Hogwarts faculty, assorted Ministry officials, and hundreds of people on his first day back? I had a different thought, which was that maybe he wants to maintain his secret identity even after V is returned to power. So Harry needs to disappear without the disappearance being traceable to Moody. But what if the plot had worked and Harry HAD been killed--how would it have looked from AD's perspective? The Cup is gone, Harry and Cedric are gone--he's going to suspect the person who put the Cup into the maze. Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I've got two Neptunes here," said Harry after a while, frowning down at his piece of parchment, "that can't be right, can it?" "Aaaaah," said Ron, imitating Professor Trelawney's mystical whisper, "when two Neptunes appear in the sky, it is a sure sign that a midget in glasses is being born, Harry. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:39:01 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:39:01 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz, Ron as seer In-Reply-To: <3A629510.8B98213C@texas.net> Message-ID: <93vcjl+gmvn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9283 Susan wrote: >I'm a little annoyed that I'm only 78% obsessed. I haven't adopted >any new pets, if I did I might name one Hedwig, I was annoyed too--only came out at 33%. But it didn't have anything like "belong to HPforGU" or "cope with insomnia by downloading fanfic from 3-5 a.m." on it. I also haven't adopted any new pets, so come on, give us time! I wonder what my dh would think of my naming our next cat Minerva? Maybe if I didn't tell him where I got the idea (he doesn't share my addiction--YET bwahahahaha) >Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we >see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that >flowers as he grows older..... He could start by offering to interpret Harry's dreams for him. It might save him (H) a lot of heartache if he'd pay more attention to them. >We could do our own quiz...we could award levels of >the Order of the Phoenix to those who pass the quizes. Steve's trivia questions on the Lexicon are great. The lake one drove me nuts--I looked in all sorts of places that failed to tell me before I found what I think is the answer. How about awarding prizes Steve? But I don't want an Order of the Phoenix, I'd rather have a phoenix. We could take up a collection, should only cost 2000 Galleons or so. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "And some old witch in Bath had a book that you could *never stop reading*! You just had to wander around with your nose in it, trying to do everything one-handed." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ----------------------------------------------------------------- From vmclure at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:42:36 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:42:36 -0000 Subject: Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93vcqc+nken@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9284 I cannot admit to being a psychic (other than predicting failing grades for some of my students), but I do know one slightly. During the Vietnam War, she would wake up in the middle of the night and start writing down lists of names. She had no idea who the people were. Then, they started showing up on the casualty list in the paper days later. There are also stories of people who have had "out of time" experiences. That is, they are in one place in 2001 and then are suddenly in the same place as it was 10 years earlier, watching events unfold. A writer friend of mine knows someone to whom this happens. From what I can gather, people who are legitimate seers do not ask for this, as it can be both gift and curse. And, they do not ask for the visions to come, they just do. See Sharyn McCrumb's novels, _The Hangman's Beautiful Daughter_, _She Walks These Hills_, etc. Better stop. I see syllabi that must be written in my future! :-) vic --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > I'm interested in Harry's ability to do astral traveling while he's asleep. > He witnessed the scene with Voldemort, Wormtail, Nagini, and old Frank in > his dream. I wonder if he will have similar dreams in the future. > > Would Ron's natural gift for prediction of future events be harmed if he > became aware of it? Would he be so alarmed at developing a > Trelawney-oriented talent that he would deliberately try to suppress it? > Would he or Harry or Hermione be inclined to trust in the veracity of Ron's > predictions, or would they wonder that he was "forcing" his intuition? > > Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict > future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out > to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this > ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to > psychic powers? > > SML > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan McGee [mailto:Schlobin at a...] > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 10:30 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience > > > Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we > see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that > flowers as he grows older..... > > Susan > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:47:01 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:47:01 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz In-Reply-To: <93uln8+8h5f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vd2l+t7iu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9285 > > > Name the executioner for the MofM? > > Oooh, I *know* this... Rita wrote: > Walden Macnair. I was complaining about his given name just the other > day. Oh ja--note to JKR: you may not name Death Eaters after my favorite books. Amy Z From vmclure at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:46:14 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:46:14 -0000 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody (long) In-Reply-To: <01c07ef1$88294cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <93vd16+e335@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9286 Also, look at the restrictions on time travel. You can't change things. Granted, Hermione and Harry did. But, would the results have been worse if the trophy had been reprogrammed? Just a thought. Vic --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: > > > >This may be a stupid question, but I've always wondered why Dumbledore > >didn't use the time-turner to go back and reprogram the trophy so it was > >no longer a portkey. > > Well, I always thouht that Hermione got her time-turner from the Ministry, > not from her teachers. > So, Dumbledore wasn't able to use it - he couldn't go and ask Fudge to lend > him one, could he? > > Monika From vmclure at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:57:32 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:57:32 -0000 Subject: Lockhart's Valentines In-Reply-To: <3A6333CC.84B7D122@texas.net> Message-ID: <93vdmc+tn4k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9287 After the Valentine is delivered, Malfoy says to Ginney "I don't think Potter liked your Valentine much!" Ginny covered her face with her hands and ran into class. (239) It's never directly stated that Ginny sent the Valentine, but she has obviously been enfatuated with Harry since the beginning of the year. Even though Malfoy is the one making fun of her, if she hadn't sent the Valentine, I think she would have had a reaction other than the one she did. Vic --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Aberforth's Goat wrote: > > > (2) Ginny's bit of epic verse ("His hair is as dark as a blackboard / I wish > > he was mine, he's really divine, / The hero who conquered the Dark Lord") > > also employs the term (and gets more than a good day's work out of it). Of > > course, she was under the influence, but still ... (of evil, I mean.) > > I'm sorry, I must have missed this. Was there any stated evidence that Ginny > actually sent this? I thought the dwarves were "seeder" Valentines that Lockhart > sent out, to get people in the mood. > > --Amanda From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 17:58:24 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:58:24 -0000 Subject: Low Midnight (filk) In-Reply-To: <93vaqp+bcc6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vdo0+qb14@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9288 Seconds to Kimberly's high praise of CM's gift for parody. CM, are you from the U.S.? If so I might have to revise my opinion that Dave Barry is the funniest man in the nation... I think you should record some of these and send them off to Dr. Demento, if he's still on the air. Amy Z who's been working on a filk but may never have the nerve to show it to this illustrious crowd but who else would appreciate it? From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 18:02:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:02:13 -0000 Subject: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience In-Reply-To: <93vbfv+eksi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vdv5+2kue@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9289 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > > Peg Kerr said: > > > > << "predictions" > > anywhere? He's doing a lot better than Prof. Trelawney.>>> > > > > This is what I have so far in the (draft) Ron Weasley FAQ, taken > from > > discussions here (so there may be other examples):- > > > On the other hand, this may just be a device JKR is using to tease > us. When you read through the books for the umpteenth time, you > notice all sorts of foreshadowing. For example, GOF, chapter 21, > which takes place right after the first task. During a party in the > Gryffindor common room, the other students have just opened Harrys > egg: > > "It was someone being tortured!" said Neville, who had gone very > white and spilled sausage rolls all over the floor. "Youre going to > have to fight the Cruciatus Curse!" > This is another kind of foreshadowing, too. Just as Seamus, who's terrified of banshees, thinks it's a banshee, Neville hears it the way he does because of his personal knowledge of the Cruciatus. I didn't pick up on it until my second reading, after the Pensieve. Great characterization on JKR's part. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------- "Very haunted up here, isn't it?" said Ron, with the air of one commenting on the weather. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 18:04:23 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:04:23 -0000 Subject: Where JKR really stole her ideas from Message-ID: <93ve37+gegk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9290 Here's a fun game: let's find all the "astounding coincidences" that conclusively prove that Rowling is a lying, thieving little plagiarist. Here are some People Who Really Ought to Sue Rowling, if Only They Had as Much Integrity as Nancy Stouffer. I just bring up two off the top of my head but I'm sure you smart folks can come up with lots more. Bob Dylan: "It was known all around that Lily had Jim's ring." --"Lily, Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts," from Blood on the Tracks The creators and writers of TV's M*A*S*H: Col. Potter, played by Harry Morgan. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 15 18:09:37 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:09:37 -0000 Subject: Lockhart's Valentines In-Reply-To: <3A6333CC.84B7D122@texas.net> Message-ID: <93ved1+8nds@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9291 Amanda wrote: > Aberforth's Goat wrote: > > > (2) Ginny's bit of epic verse ("His hair is as dark as a blackboard / I wish > > he was mine, he's really divine, / The hero who conquered the Dark Lord") > > also employs the term (and gets more than a good day's work out of it). Of > > course, she was under the influence, but still ... (of evil, I mean.) > > I'm sorry, I must have missed this. Was there any stated evidence that Ginny > actually sent this? I thought the dwarves were "seeder" Valentines that Lockhart > sent out, to get people in the mood. No evidence as such, but she does run off crying when Draco says "I don't think Potter liked your Valentine." She could just be embarrassed that he's picked up on her crush, but it seems more likely that she really did send it and he somehow found out, or made a lucky guess. It's not very sensitive of Fred and George to keep singing it at him then, is it? I'm not surprised they'd make fun of Harry this way, but they might lay off embarrassing Ginny. I thought the valentine, minus the thuggish dwarf of course, was sweet. No one's ever told *me* my eyes remind them of a fresh pickled toad. Sigh, Amy Z From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 15 17:38:18 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:38:18 -0000 Subject: OT prescience References: Message-ID: <004d01c07f1f$19caaac0$232b7bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 9292 > > Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict > future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this > ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to > psychic powers? I don't know if this is what you were getting at, but I've always had an uncanny knack of making big decisions instinctively and being fairly happy with them. By that I mean, choosing which schools to go to, where to go to Uni, where to live abroad, which property to buy. I can never explain why it feels right, it just does. In terms of premonition, I became very closely involved with someone not romantically ) about three years ago. Extremely so. Lots of phone calls, trips abroad, visits to stay. Anyway, after the first trip away together, I was listening to a CD that I'd got during the trip and I had an ominous feeling that the friendship would come to a bad end. And before you say maybe the song's lyrics inspired these thoughts , it was in Greek. Anyway, cut to this year and our last trip abroad. We fell out badly and the damage was irreparable. Add to this I already knew before we went away that I wasn't sure I wanted to go and it's too much of a coincidence for me. I will always listen to my instincts. I don't believe in taking preventative measures based on personal instinct, I just keep them in mind. Michelle From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 15 19:08:21 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:08:21 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Games, Updates and a Free Screensaver Message-ID: <82.58d541a.2794a4a5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9293 http://kidsbooks.about.com/library/weekly/aa100600a.htm Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 15 19:25:04 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:25:04 -0000 Subject: Talk to the Basilisks (filk) Message-ID: <93viqg+aomc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9294 Talk to the Basilisks (to the tune of Talk to the Animals, from the film Dr. Doolittle ? the 1967 version) (The Scene: Neutral Ground in Brazil. HARRY POTTER and LORD VOLDEMORT, ordinarily the most implacable of foes, have temporarily set aside their differences in order to celebrate that rare and extraordinary talent which they alone share) BOTH: Oh, we can talk to the basilisks, learn what makes `em hiss With king snakes and king cobras we confer HP: We can converse with a Cottonmouth because we know Parselmouth V: Scales have it over fin and fur BOTH: We love prattlin' with the rattlesnakes, even playin' pattycakes V: It's a thrill to speak in serpentine BOTH: We're always jubilant when the syllables get sibilant HP: You soon find out that snakes have all the lines BOTH: We can chew the fat with a fat adder We're quite fond of anaconda, too V: And when they ask, "Can you speak in constrictor-ese?" HP: "With unrestricted ease! Can't you?" BOTH: When you talk to the snakes in their own languages In reptilian, there's a million things to tell When you talk to the basilisks, hiss with the basilisks Coil and shed and squeeze with the basilisks Then they can hiss and coil and shed and squeeze pell-mell! V: Consulting with the critters in The emblem of Slytherin Is my unswerving source of good advice HP: And even although a coral snake Might make even an Auror shake You'll quickly see that they are very nice BOTH: We can speak to each and every reptile In its very own vernacular V: Cause `even back in Eden A snake they were a-needin' HP: To help make the plot more spectacular V: If you talk to the basilisks, you do incur some risks, HP: People are sure to say, "Tsk Tsk" But if you gossip with the garter snakes, V: Strategize with smarter snakes You'll reduce that grumbling to an asterisk BOTH: We can delve into a snake pit, or even throw a hissy fit And a snake will in friendship give its palm HP: And if you feel hyperactive, just get viper-interactive V: And we can guarantee you'll feel calm BOTH: Although we're deadly enemies, we're so fluent in venom-ese That maybe things will work out without fuss Cause when we talk to the basilisks, hiss with the basilisks Coil and shed and squeeze with the basilisks Then they can hiss and coil and squeeze and not kill us! - CMC From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Jan 15 19:34:36 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 11:34:36 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where JKR really stole her ideas from In-Reply-To: <93ve37+gegk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010115111633.00c3b700@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9295 At 06:04 PM 1/15/01 +0000, Amy wrote: >The creators and writers of TV's M*A*S*H: >Col. Potter, played by Harry Morgan. The TV film "Winter of the Witch", featuring a bushy-haired witch played by Hermione Gingold. In Louisa May Alcott's _Little Men_: Tommy Bangs, who is forgetful, accident-prone, and has a strained relationship with his grandmother. In _The Wizard of Oz_ (the book): The Witch of the West can't touch or hurt Dorothy because of something on her forehead. The "Time Turner" is plagiarism because Time-Warner owns both Time and Turner. -- Dave From annezo at aol.com Mon Jan 15 19:36:22 2001 From: annezo at aol.com (annezo at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:36:22 EST Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody (long) Message-ID: <2d.6147163.2794ab36@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9296 In a message dated 01/15/2001 12:23:42 PM Mountain Standard Time, vmclure at hotmail.com writes: > Also, look at the restrictions on time travel. You can't change > things. Granted, Hermione and Harry did. But, would the results have > been worse if the trophy had been reprogrammed? Just a thought. > Vic I might disagree that H & H "changed" anything. They had no proof that Buckbeak (sp?) had actually been executed...just the sound of the axe that was explained later as the executioner using it on the fence. They didn't see Hagrid again, remember, so they didn't know if he was pleased at Buckbeak's escape or crying for his loss. And they didn't "change" Sirius' fate, because it was still up in the air at the moment Hermione Turned the hourglass. In fact, Harry seeing himself by the lake...and having been rescued by his own Patronus originally, argues that their journey back in time wasn't a "change" but was, in fact, actually what originally happened. Anne ====== From particle at urbanet.ch Mon Jan 15 20:44:42 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:44:42 +0100 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz, and Time-Travel References: <93u18r+1npj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A636139.8AB3BF74@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9297 Trying Susan's Quiz: > Is Mad Eye Moody's mad eye the right one or the left? Um...left, I *think*. > Name a Durmstrang student other than Viktor Krum? Poliakoff. > How many presents does Dursley get for his birthday? In book one? All added up, 39. 37 before his parents tell him about the extra two. > How many turns must Hermione go back so as to rescue Sirius and > Buckbeak? Three. > What charm does Molly Weasley use to search Gred and Forge? The Summoning Charm, 'Accio!' > What character has dirt on his nose prior to his sorting? Ron. > What is Colin Creevy's little brother's name and what happens to him > before his sorting? Dennis; he falls into the lake and gets rescued by the giant squid. > Whose Remembrall causes Harry to get a Nimbus 2000? Neville. > Name the executioner for the MofM? Macnair; do I get bonus points for saying that his first name is Walden? Oh, no, Rita got it too, never mind. > What is Boobur pus used for? It's bubotuber, and it's used as an anti-acne treatment. Well, that was fun - although none of them were really that hard...still, great questions, Susan. I see a fic idea blossoming in my head...d'you mind, Vic? ~Firebolt From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 15 20:45:33 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:45:33 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz, Ron as seer In-Reply-To: <93vcjl+gmvn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vnhd+8ggf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9298 > Steve's trivia questions on the Lexicon are great. The lake one drove > me nuts--I looked in all sorts of places that failed to tell me before > I found what I think is the answer. How about awarding prizes Steve? Actually, I'm going to try to put ten-question surveys on there, just like that silly one (that only put me at 78%, which is ludicrous...if I'm not obsessed, nobody is!). So what did you come up with for an answer and, more importantly, what proof did you find? But there are major Internet backbone problems here in Grand Rapids this afternoon, so the Lexicon is inaccesable even to me. And I'm frustrated as heck. I was having a pretty good, hundreds of hits kind of day until that. Stupid technology. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which is down right now http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon for what it's worth. From mschub at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 20:47:25 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (mschub at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:47:25 -0000 Subject: Where JKR really stole her ideas from In-Reply-To: <93ve37+gegk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <93vnku+iudj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9299 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Bob Dylan: > "It was known all around that Lily had Jim's ring." --"Lily, > Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts," from Blood on the Tracks > > The creators and writers of TV's M*A*S*H: > Col. Potter, played by Harry Morgan. Hello all! Bear with me, I'm new... Here's another important one: Similarities between HP and Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" series. e.g. - in "The Golden Compass" (Book 1 of HDM), there's a certain "Palmerian Professor" named Trelawney... in both "The Subtle Knife", and "The Amber Spyglass" (Books 2 and 3), we see "Specters", evil creatures that glide around and feed on the souls (or daemons, in the books) of their victims. Just being in the vicinity of these creatures causes one to feel "cold" and "sad". A Specter's attack consists of lowering its hood (revealing "what would have been its face, had it had one") and administering a fatal "kiss", in which the soul is destroyed forever. There's a really good paragraph where this is described, but I'm afraid I've loaned my copy of the book to a friend, so I'm unable to quote it. Now, the timing on these is questionable. Who is "borrowing" from whom? Did JKR already have these creatures plotted out before The Subtle Knife was published in '97? Who knows. It is interesting, however, that both of the authors routinely recommend the others' books to their readers. So I guess they're OK with it. As I said, I'm new. I've been lurking for a few days, reading up on old posts, but if this coincidence has been brought up before, I haven't seen it, so please forgive me. Also, if anyone HASN'T read the HDM series, and enjoyed HP, I would VERY highly recommend them. -Mike From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 15 21:23:14 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:23:14 -0000 Subject: Trivia Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9300 The lexicon is up at the moment - I just logged on and am now thinking about eyes! I think I know them, but am not sure. > Steve's trivia questions on the Lexicon are great. The lake one drove > me nuts--I looked in all sorts of places that failed to tell me before > I found what I think is the answer. How about awarding prizes Steve? Steve wrote: "So what did you come up with for an answer and, more importantly, what proof did you find?" I was impressed that I got this from memory! Just looked up the quote to check. South - Proof in PoA Ch 6. Ron: " 'That's south. Look, you can see a bit of the lake out of the window ...' Simon From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Jan 15 22:05:39 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:05:39 -0800 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody (long) In-Reply-To: <2d.6147163.2794ab36@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010115140420.0368a950@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9301 At 02:36 PM 1/15/01 -0500, annezo at aol.com wrote: >I might disagree that H & H "changed" anything. They >had no proof that Buckbeak (sp?) had actually been >executed...just the sound of the axe that was explained >later as the executioner using it on the fence. They didn't >see Hagrid again, remember, so they didn't know if he was >pleased at Buckbeak's escape or crying for his loss. And they >didn't "change" Sirius' fate, because it was still up in the >air at the moment Hermione Turned the hourglass. I think that's the point... You can't "change" what you know to be to the contrary, otherwise time paradoxes creep in. -- Dave From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Mon Jan 15 22:08:18 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:08:18 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where JKR really stole her ideas from In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010115111633.00c3b700@pop.mindspring.com> References: <93ve37+gegk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010115140645.03684e70@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9302 I thought of one more: In the British sci-fi series _Red Dwarf_, one of the characters has a Deathday party. -- Dave From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Jan 15 22:07:22 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 15 Jan 2001 14:07:22 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT prescience Message-ID: <20010115220722.20795.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9303 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Jan 15 22:18:22 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 15 Jan 2001 14:18:22 -0800 Subject: Penny in NYC Message-ID: <20010115221822.21078.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9304 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 15 22:12:08 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:12:08 -0000 Subject: OT prescience/it's all Greek to me In-Reply-To: <004d01c07f1f$19caaac0$232b7bd5@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <93vsjo+ckor@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9305 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > before you say maybe the song's lyrics inspired these > thought, it was in Greek. Considering your surname, I was surprised that you seemed to take it for granted that Greek is a language you don't know. From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 15 22:23:02 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:23:02 -0000 Subject: OT--Rat question In-Reply-To: <3A628CD8.7BD6BB42@texas.net> Message-ID: <93vt86+e8i8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9306 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Caius Marcius wrote: > > > BTW, Chapter 11 of Hans Zinnser's Rats, Lice and History (1935) is a > > definitive exploration of the role that the rat has played in Western > > history. Apparently, the rat entered Europe in relatively recent > > historical terms, perhaps as recently as 700 AD. > > Which kind of rat? The brown, or the black? Does it say? According to Zinnser, it was the black rat (Mus rattus) that first came to European civilization ? in the Classical era, references to mice are common, but there are no clear mention of anything truly ratlike. Authorities debate when they arrived, which might be anywhere between 400 AD and 1100 AD. In many early medieval chronicles the words for rats and mice were used interchangably (see "scientific" name above!). The first clear differentiation between them is made in the writings of Giraldus Cambrensis (1147- 1223 ? doesn't that sound like the sort of thing you might pick up in Prof. Binns' class?) What rats were doing before then is not clear. Some speculate that they were living in the wilds, and for some reason quickly domesticated themselves. Once they did decide to associate with us, they spread with alarming rapidity. Mus rattus was largely wiped out in Europe by the introduction of the Brown Rat (Mus decumanus, from Asia) in the early 18th Century. The so-called Norwegian Rat (Mus Norvegicus, also from Asia) was introduced to Europe around the same time. - CMC From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 22:43:33 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:43:33 -0000 Subject: Harry Potter Obsession Quiz, and Time-Travel In-Reply-To: <3A636139.8AB3BF74@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <93vuel+iuig@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9307 "Also, look at the restrictions on time travel. You can't change things. Granted, Hermione and Harry did. But, would the results have been worse if the trophy had been reprogrammed? Just a thought. "Vic" This is simple (I think). When Harry and Cedric left nobody knew where they were going. By the time they got back, and the whole graveyard scene had transpired, it was to late. If someone had gone back to stop them then they would never have gone and so no one would have known that there was any danger, and therefore not stopped them. Argh! I guess that I should probably try to go back in time and change this message. It doesn't make much sense eh? Scott From mschub at yahoo.com Mon Jan 15 22:53:25 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:53:25 -0000 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crouch / Moody (long) In-Reply-To: <2d.6147163.2794ab36@aol.com> Message-ID: <93vv15+i0ro@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9308 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, annezo at a... wrote:> > I might disagree that H & H "changed" anything. They > had no proof that Buckbeak (sp?) had actually been > executed...just the sound of the axe that was explained > later as the executioner using it on the fence. They didn't > see Hagrid again, remember, so they didn't know if he was > pleased at Buckbeak's escape or crying for his loss. And they > didn't "change" Sirius' fate, because it was still up in the > air at the moment Hermione Turned the hourglass. > > In fact, Harry seeing himself by the lake...and having been > rescued by his own Patronus originally, argues that their > journey back in time wasn't a "change" but was, in fact, > actually what originally happened. This whole idea of the paradox created by time-travel is interesting, and FAR too deep for me to really wrap my rather brilliant mind around it. But basically, by going back in time, they would alter not only what happened, but also everyone's memories of what happened. That is, HP1 would remember what HP2 did, not what HP1 did. So when HP2 sent the Patronus, HP1 would accept that as Holy Writ; "This HAS happened, this IS happening, and this WILL happen." So we don't really know what originally happened, if there is even any such thing as "original". We just know that in that particular situation, HP2 will ALWAYS send a Patronus to rescue HP1. In short, I guess I'm saying I agree with Anne, that they really didn't change anything, as once it is changed, there is no way that anyone can know that there was ever anything different. I guess. This made sense when I started to type all this nonsense. I'm not really sure anymore... -Mike From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 15 22:58:45 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:58:45 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where JKR really stole her ideas from References: <4.3.2.7.2.20010115111633.00c3b700@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A6380A5.5AA3051E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9309 In The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, when the four children are have just arrived at the old house and are discussing what they might see while exploring outside: Peter (starting things off) suggests a variety of animals, including eagles, and hawks. "Badgers!" says Lucy. "Snakes!" says Edmund. "Foxes!" says Susan. Pretty close three out of four? --Amanda From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 15 23:04:23 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:04:23 -0000 Subject: OT prescience/lucky In-Reply-To: <20010115220722.20795.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <93vvln+4i1g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9310 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Jeralyn wrote: > I'm just incredibly lucky; I am that person who is always in the right place at the right time. The Luck of Teela Brown -- from Larry Niven, RINGWORLD, I think. From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 15 23:34:43 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 23:34:43 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT it's all Greek to me/ family heritage References: <93vsjo+ckor@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003701c07f4b$be275f60$7960063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 9311 > Considering your surname, I was surprised that you seemed to take it > for granted that Greek is a language you don't know. > Ah, well there. I forgot to mention that I'm about third generation Greek and my mother is daughter of a John Smith ( very common name and surname combination over here ) so I speak fluent French and German, but not Greek ! The only words I can say in Greek are nei, ochi, endaxi and efharisto. I still love the sound of it, though. Michelle From minzzer at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 00:08:04 2001 From: minzzer at hotmail.com (minzzer at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:08:04 -0000 Subject: OT prescience In-Reply-To: <004d01c07f1f$19caaac0$232b7bd5@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <9403d4+mj2o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9312 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > > > > Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to > predict > > future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have > turned out to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms > with this > > ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to > admit to > > psychic powers? > Well it depends how you lok at it. For example, sometimes I just happen to just say something and then it happens, but it's not like a guess. Just a random statement that's meanig is suppose to be nothing. Who knows it may just be luck. ::shrugs:: Then again I claim to be insane :) and my friends tend to agree with me. ::hey! I can be sane when I want to. :) :: Minzzer http://minzzer.tripod.com/home.htm http://profiles.yahoo.com/extreme_tech_girl From mschub at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 00:28:25 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:28:25 -0000 Subject: Recommendations Message-ID: <9404j9+87v0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9313 Just wondering if anyone had any interesting recommendations. I'm pretty well-read in children's lit, but I'm always on the lookout for new stuff. Overall, I've never really been into the fantasy/sci-fi thing, but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has any favorite series, please, let me know. -Mike From drmm at fuuko.com Tue Jan 16 00:43:48 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:43:48 -0000 Subject: Obsession quiz... Message-ID: <9405g4+5rem@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9314 Considering how many people (including myself) think that the obsession quiz is sadly lacking, I'm working on putting together one of my own. So far I have around 60 questions, although I'd like to have around 100. So, here they are. . . if you have any other ones, please suggest them to me. I'll be working on the coding for it this week and I'll put it up on my site and tell everyone when it's done :) 1. Have you read Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone/Philosopher's Stone? 2. Have you read Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets? 3. Have you read Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban? 4. Have you read Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire? 5. Do you own more than one copy of the above books? 6. Do you own them in more than one language? (Note: UK and US versions count) 7. Have you read them in more than one language? 8. Have you translated them into another language? 9. Have you read them more than four times each? 10. Have you read fanfic? 11. Do you write fanfic/filk or draw fanart? 12. Do you run a Harry Potter website? 13. Do you visit Harry Potter related websites? 14. Have you ever been to the Harry Potter Lexicon? 15. Are you Steve Vander Ark? 16. Have you visited "The Unofficial Harry Potter Fan Club"? 17. Are you Jenna? 18. Are you on a Harry Potter related e-mail list? 19. Are you on three or more Harry Potter mailing lists? 20. Have you started a Harry Potter mailing list? 21. Have you started more than one? 22. Do you participate in Harry Potter chatrooms? 23. Have you started a Harry Potter chat room? 24. Do you participate in a Harry Potter Role Playing Game? 25. Do you know what shipper means? 26. Are you a shipper? 27. Do you write lengthy tretises on why one ship is better than another? 28. Do you write fanfic devoted to one ship? Are you Penny? (heheh, just kidding) ;) 29. Do you have Harry Potter related dreams? 30. Do you have them regularly? 31. Do you own any Harry Potter merchandise? (not the books) 32. Do you own five or more pieces of Harry Potter merchandise? 33. More than ten? 34. Do you own them even though you hate the blatant merchandising? 35. Are you upset at the New York Times for creating a new bestseller list because of the success of Harry Potter? 36. Have you written them about it? 37. Have you written to J.K. Rowling? 38. Were you at a bookstore at midnight to get the last book when it came out? 39. Did you stay up all night to read it? 40. Even though you had to be at work/school the next day? 41. Do you find one of the characters strangely attractive? 42. Have you tried to get your friends to read the books? 43. Did they become as obsessed as you are? 44. Have your friends and/or family suggested you go to therapy because of your addiction? 45. Did you actually catch the "Wand Order" mistake before you read about it in the press? 46. Did you come up with elaborate theories to explain it? 47. Do you consider the correction in later editions to be pathetic? 48. Using clues in the book, have you attempted to find the exact geographical location of Hogwarts or other locations (Durmstrang, etc.) mentioned in the books? 49. Do you disagree with certain statements given by J.K. in interviews/chats because they contradict with the evidence you see in the books? (number of students, etc.) 50. Have you written lenghty explinations as to why you disagree? 51. Have you named a child and/or pet after a Harry Potter character? 52. Would you if you had one to name? 53. Have you ever been quoted in a news article about Harry Potter? 54. Do you despise attempts to ban Harry Potter in classrooms? 55. Do you participate in groups dedicated to stopping such censorship? 56. Have you played a Harry Potter game? 57. Do you find yourself relating Harry Potter to real life? 58. Do you find yourself relating Harry Potter to other books/TV shows, etc.? 59. Does most of your e-mail consist of Harry Potter stuff? 60. Are you terrified that Warner Brothers is going to mutilate the books? 61. Have you considered visiting the U.K. just to see where Platform 9 3/4 would be? 61. Have you written a "How obsessed are you" quiz? DrMM *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Slayers From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 16 01:14:06 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:14:06 -0000 Subject: obsession Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9315 DrMM wrote: "Considering how many people (including myself) think that the obsession quiz is sadly lacking, I'm working on putting together one of my own. So far I have around 60 questions, although I'd like to have around 100. So, here they are. . . if you have any other ones, please suggest them to me. I'll be working on the coding for it this week and I'll put it up on my site and tell everyone when it's done :) 61. Have you considered visiting the U.K. just to see where Platform 9 3/4 would be?" This question is a bit silly as some of us actually live here. And I still did not get half marks - I must not be an obsessive! Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It is interesting that it will be impossible to get 100% on the quiz (unless Steve and Jenna are the same peson!). Thinks of the many hours in the chat yesterday and wonders how he misses out on being counted as an obsessive! Simon From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 16 00:47:43 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 19:47:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lockhart's Valentines Message-ID: <200101160129.f0G1TBC25062@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9316 Amy Z. said: >I thought the valentine, minus the thuggish dwarf of course, was >sweet. No one's ever told *me* my eyes remind them of a fresh pickled >toad. Personally I think it's one of the funniest moments in any of the books. The mental picture of the dwarf tackling Harry and sitting on his legs while he sings the valentine still makes me giggle uncontrollably. Kathy From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 16 02:06:08 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:06:08 -0500 Subject: thanks, SoC, hp@Disney, etc. References: <014401c07cdb$34e55260$1b3570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A63AC90.FB4DFB17@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 9317 I am double-posting because my life is completely crazy & since I was going to send the same thing to both lists....well, please forgive me everyone! 1. Thanks to everyone who sent me birthday wishes. I just got back from a weekend celebrating turning *30* at Disney World with my family (they let me go on the teacups 30 times in a row this morning! Wheeeeeeee!) to a mailbox full of sweet wishes - I will try to respond individually, but since I'm off to San Francisco first thing on Wednesday & am spending tomorrow catching up at work, if I can't before I go, please forgive me. 2. re: Chapter 4 of Surfeit of Curses - thanks to everyone for their reviews, etc. - I will *definitely* be responding to those individually over the next week, at least as quickly as I can. But yes, Chapter 5 will deal with a lot of the "off screen" happenings in GoF - and yes, Carole was the first person to notice the page number of the book hermione kept rereading, where the words were chaning in front of her eyes. Call it an homage to Penny if you like. 3. Last night, we had dinner at the Rose & Crown, which is the resturaunt at the UK in Epcot - and yes, there was a little HP stuff there - the US paperback versions of the first 2 books, and a few 2nd printing hardcovers of GoF (with the *good yet "incorrect"* p.667) - I recommended that they carry the UK versions of the book - they sell a lot of other UK books, including the uk versions of Paddington - this woudl seem a natural inclusion - hopefully they will! And overheard in line for WInnie The Pooh fastpasses - "Mom, where's the Harry Potter ride...?" (and am I the only one who *wishes* disney had the rights to the books? their artists are *so* much better than the WB ones) And dining a few tables away from us at the California Grill at the contemporary on Saturday night - Draco, circa 12 years old - pointy features, pale hair, and the most *bored* expression you ever saw on a preteen during the fireworks. From drmm at fuuko.com Tue Jan 16 02:11:49 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:11:49 -0000 Subject: obsession In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <940al5+q0ga@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9318 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: << This question is a bit silly as some of us actually live here.>> Errrr, good point. Maybe there's another way to phrase it. . . "Have you ever made a long trip to see a possible location of something in the books?" Blech, that doens't sound quite right. << And I still did not get half marks - I must not be an obsessive! Is this a good thing or a bad thing? It is interesting that it will be impossible to get 100% on the quiz (unless Steve and Jenna are the same peson!).>> Ahhh, but some questions can be weighted higher than others >:) So, if Steve clicks yes on that one, his can be two points instead of the one that most of the others are . . . Although I honestly don't expect anyone to hit close to 100% on this. It's more of a gag than anything else :) If any anime fans are on here and have seen "The Anime Otaku-ness Test 200" (http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/ccc17/otaku.html) that's sort of what I'm going for....Anything above 40% means you're obsessed ;) 100% would mean you need to see a therapist . . . DrMM From ABoyko at starchoice.com Tue Jan 16 02:15:28 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:15:28 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where JKR really stole her ideas from Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE6E@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9319 In the "Little House" series, Nellie Oleson looks down on the Ingalls because they're poor. In the "Anne of Green Gables" series, Anne is an orphan who suffers from neglect and abuse until the age of 11 or so, when she finds true friends. Angela From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 16 02:22:57 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:22:57 -0500 Subject: day late, pound & dollar short References: <93oscc+8bd1@eGroups.com> <00e001c07d4d$cebb2960$313370c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A63B081.6747C74@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 9320 I admit it - I am a day late on my chapter summaries & my potter summary. But I promise to send them tomorrow afternoon ( US time) - see my previous email for an explanation about my overwrought schedule of the past few days..... From dherreid at colortechnology.com Tue Jan 16 02:49:08 2001 From: dherreid at colortechnology.com (dherreid at colortechnology.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:49:08 -0000 Subject: Two questions.. In-Reply-To: <93pjvn+kvii@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940cr4+r3es@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9321 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Peg said: > > >It's actually an even better allusion, as I've mentioned before, to > Act V, > >Scene 3 of Richard III, where the ghosts of his murdered victims > appear to > >curse him and give comfort to his enemy. > > Well spotted! Forgot that one! JKR has to have been remembering > it. Time to go read RIII, which I've seen but never read. Thanks for your ideas Amy and Peg! Although the scenes are remarkably similar Macbeth is just a muggle and should have been surprised at the appearance of his victims. To my mind Voldemorte should not have been un-nerved by what he should have known to be mere smokey echoes. From catlady at wicca.net Tue Jan 16 03:20:14 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:20:14 -0000 Subject: obsession In-Reply-To: <940al5+q0ga@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940ele+ruh6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9322 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, drmm at f... wrote: > Ahhh, but some questions can be weighted higher than others >:) > So, if Steve clicks yes on that one, his can be two points instead > of the one that most of the others are . . . The quiz was LOL funny. I had thought that clicking Yes on Are you Steve van der Ark (aargh, spelling!) would result in an automatic score of 100% regardless of any other answers to any other questions. Suggestions for more questions: something about, did you compute the (Muggle) year of birth and of leaving school for each character in order to discover which ones you could have dated back in high school? Would our arguments over which characters are going to die count as obsessive? I suppose merely having been sorted into a particular House is perfectly normal and not obsessive at all. How about wearing a Weasley sweater, especially in public? From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 03:34:08 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:34:08 -0000 Subject: More on time travel Message-ID: <940ffg+qlco@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9323 I know that my first post on this was confusing. I think I can make it a little more clear. Then again perhaps not... I've often read books that dealt with time travel and I usually come away totally muddled. Then again my brains not the best place to be. Their either coming or going and usually going. It seems to me that the time travel in the HP canon can't actually change things. Take for instance what seems the most obvious possible change that no one seems to have mentioned. Why can't they just go back and kill Tom Riddle before he becomes Lord Voldemort? But then I thought about it. Lord Voldemort would have happened even if there had never been a Tom Riddle. Someone with enough greed and thirst for power would have been in his place. It seems to me that this (and examples of it throughout history) are problems with society as a whole. If we don't stand up then we're bound to fall. The wizard society must have been very vunerable. They needed a leader, someone to turn too. Voldemort happened to have to fill the position. Some things are predetermined. Even if Cedric hadn't of died that night innocent lives would still have been lost. That's enevitable. The time turner and such can affect some things but others, at least IMO, will work out no matter how we humans (and in this case wizards) try to change them. Does this make sense? Scott From nlpnt at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 03:42:16 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:42:16 -0000 Subject: Recommendations In-Reply-To: <9404j9+87v0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940fuo+gdrn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9324 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: > Just wondering if anyone had any interesting recommendations. I'm > pretty well-read in children's lit, but I'm always on the lookout for > new stuff. Overall, I've never really been into the fantasy/sci-fi > thing, but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has any favorite > series, please, let me know. > -Mike For the most part, the only juveniles I read anymore are SF/F. (and a few old favorites) The "His Dark Materials" series by Philip Pullman is at least the equivalent of Tolkien in terms of reading level, and very close in terms of quality (in fact it's one of the few modern high fantasies that isn't, to some extent or another, rewriting Tolkien) I'm a fan of the earlier Pern books by Anne McCaffrey, but she's fading of late (anything past "All the Weyrs..."). I can understand her hard line against fan fiction; a fanfic writer the caliber of Lori or Carole of this list could outdo her easily! I've gotten into Garth Nix lately; "Sabriel" is a look at an almost- modern world that borders on a more typical fantasy world (it's much- delayed sequel is coming this spring) and the "Seventh Tower" series is getting much better after a somewhat slow start; it's really a serial novel, and quite funny in parts besides being a good fantasy. If you want a laugh, I recommend the "Star Wars; X-Wing" series, particularly those by Aaron Allston; they are without a doubt the funniest military SF around today. Once more, not really juveniles but nothing a reasonably smart 10yo whose seen the original 3 SW movies won't understand. Speaking of SW, there are several young readers' series based on it. The "Junior Jedi Knights" are good, too short, and underrated; the "Jedi Apprentice" series are better, a bit longer (but still too short), and overrrated, at least among SW fans. "Young Jedi Knights" is fairly average, was popular pre-prequels, but is getting hard to find. I wouldn't give you a plugged nickel for the "Glove of Darth Vader" books; avoid those. If you're interested in any of these, the best reveiws of Star Wars books are at http://www.theforce.net Just follow the links to "books" and "book reviews" From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 03:46:11 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:46:11 -0000 Subject: obsession In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <940g63+46o5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9325 Simon wrote: 61. Have you considered visiting the U.K. just to see where Platform 9 3/4 would be?" "This question is a bit silly as some of us actually live here." How about- Have you ever gone around King's Cross station bumping into various walls trying to get to platform 9 3/4? What about- Have ever spent an afternoon in London searching for the Leaky Cauldron? (Neil could anwser yes to that one...) Lets see. I go 42 out of your 61 questions...How obsessed am I? OTOH I got 89% on that other obession quiz. I don't care WHAT the numbers say, I'm REALLY obsessed. Scott Who was very upset when his Harry Potter pens ran out of ink during the middle of Biology and then had to tell EVERYONE about it... From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Jan 16 04:00:54 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:00:54 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Recommendations In-Reply-To: <9404j9+87v0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9326 Check out the DATABASE section of the club on the web. http://www.egroups.com/database/HPforGrownups (or click on the word DATABASE on the left side of the main club web page) look in the folders "Recommended Reading" and "Fan Fiction" for some great books to tide you over until HP5. Anyone can add their own recommendations to these databases as well. SML -----Original Message----- From: Mike Schubert [mailto:mschub at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 5:28 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Recommendations Just wondering if anyone had any interesting recommendations. I'm pretty well-read in children's lit, but I'm always on the lookout for new stuff. Overall, I've never really been into the fantasy/sci-fi thing, but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has any favorite series, please, let me know. -Mike To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 03:57:39 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:57:39 -0000 Subject: Recommending HPforGrownups Message-ID: <940grj+pq5h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9327 I hope no one minds terribly that I recommended this club to the people in my "Teaching HP" class on B&Nuni's page. It's a course using the Schafer book. I think I may of offended some people by saying that it wasn't worth the paper on which it is printed (it's not). I just told them that it shouldn't be taken as fact which is how much of it comes across. Who knows we may gain some new members. The course was one that I didn't find helpful but I thought it might give me some insight into the Schafer without having to buy it. I've since decided that you CAN'T much out of it. One thing that I thought seemed silly was the suggestion that Harry is still able to learn magic from his parents through the Ministry of magic (MOM) and Defence Against the Dark Arts (DADA). Is this for real? I don't mean to sound rude but I can't see any merit in it. Will someone explain? Scott From pbnesbit at msn.com Tue Jan 16 04:02:26 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:02:26 -0000 Subject: Recommendations In-Reply-To: <9404j9+87v0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940h4i+oljo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9328 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: > Just wondering if anyone had any interesting recommendations. I'm > pretty well-read in children's lit, but I'm always on the lookout for > new stuff. Overall, I've never really been into the fantasy/sci-fi > thing, but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has any favorite > series, please, let me know. > -Mike I've always enjoyed "The Dark Is Rising" series by Susan Cooper (another wonderful British author). The books in the series are: "The Dark Is Rising", "The Greenwitch", "The Grey King", and "Silver on the Tree." It's a retelling (of sorts) of the Arthur/Merlin story & I think totally enchanting. Also, *anything* by Marion Zimmer Bradley. Happy Reading Parker (aka The Bookworm) From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 04:57:29 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:57:29 -0600 Subject: Read Number five before thinking it's ot. Message-ID: <006701c07f79$1af666a0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9329 I'm sending this due to #5. Enjoy. ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Jan 16 04:48:55 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 04:48:55 -0000 Subject: Recommending HPforGrownups In-Reply-To: <940grj+pq5h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940jrn+jiim@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9331 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " harry_potter00 at y... wrote: > I hope no one minds terribly that I recommended this club to the > people in my "Teaching HP" class on B&Nuni's page. It's a course > using the Schafer book. Perfectly OK - anyone's welcome who is willing to talk about HP in a "grownup" way. They might also be interested in the Harry Potter Book Discussion for Adults eGroup, at the following URL: http://www.egroups.com/group/Harry_PotterBookDiscussionForAdults HPBDfA is currently discussing the Prisoner of Azkaban. > I think I may of offended some people by saying that it wasn't > worth the paper on which it is printed (it's not). I agree 100%. The Schafer book is an abomination. I suggest that you do a search on the word Beacham (use the search box in the upper righ- hand corner) -- you'll come up with a lot of similar opinions about the book from others in this eGroup. > One thing that I thought seemed silly was the suggestion that Harry > is still able to learn magic from his parents through the Ministry > of magic (MOM) and Defence Against the Dark Arts (DADA). > Is this for real? I don't mean to sound rude but I can't see any > merit in it. Will someone explain? No one can explain, except perhaps Elizabeth Schafer (and I doubt that she can). Actually, my favorite "howler" from Liz's book is the following (p. 66): "Pettigrew's missing finger symbolizes his inabilty to make his point effectively." -Jim Flanagan From m-drelichman at northwestern.edu Tue Jan 16 05:23:24 2001 From: m-drelichman at northwestern.edu (Mauricio Drelichman) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 05:23:24 -0000 Subject: Recommendations In-Reply-To: <9404j9+87v0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940lsc+k7on@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9332 If you are willing to stray from pure fantasy and try some sci-fi, Isaac Asimov is a must read. "The end of eternity", my favorite, deals with time travel, although Asimov's system turns out to be quite more powerful than a MOM time turner. The robot short stories, compiled in "I, robot" and "Robot dreams" are also excellent reading. If you like them, you may go on with the Robot trilogy (Caves of steel, The naked sun, The robots of dawn). However, never, and I mean NEVER, read the books by Asimov and Silvelberg. They are adaptations from Asimov's best short stories, and they do them a very poor service. Finally, I also enjoyed a lot Arthur C. Clarke's "The songs of distant earth". Sorry for the sci-fi nostalgia... Mauricio --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: > Just wondering if anyone had any interesting recommendations. I'm > pretty well-read in children's lit, but I'm always on the lookout for > new stuff. Overall, I've never really been into the fantasy/sci-fi > thing, but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has any favorite > series, please, let me know. > -Mike From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Tue Jan 16 05:39:49 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:39:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where JKR really stole her ideas from Message-ID: <40.61b4839.279538a5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9333 In the movie Labyrinth there was a goblin names Hoggle and Sara called him Hogwarts, and the big fury creature's name was Ludo Tessie From Tallonclaw at aol.com Tue Jan 16 05:56:40 2001 From: Tallonclaw at aol.com (Tallonclaw at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 00:56:40 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: obsession Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9334 << Simon wrote: 61. Have you considered visiting the U.K. just to see where Platform 9 3/4 would be?" "This question is a bit silly as some of us actually live here." How about- Have you ever gone around King's Cross station bumping into various walls trying to get to platform 9 3/4?>> Actually I went to London over New Years, and I did go to King's Cross and was um hehe 'bumping into the walls' as you put it (well only one). The people who saw me were giving me strange looks. Hoo boy did I feel like an idiot. But it was fun! delurking for this post, Nikki From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 16 06:46:59 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:46:59 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93tq6k+lubv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940qp3+ucu6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9335 > > > > So why does Moody teach Harry so well to resist the Imperius, > > This one makes perfect sense to me. He is intensely curious about > Harry. He wants to determine what about this skinny, untrained kid > could have allowed him to defeat the Dark Lord, his master. He is > testing Herry, finding out under the guise of a lesson just what > power he has. There was no way that he could know that his actions > would have enabled Harry to survive a battle with Voldemort yet again > a few months later. > > Steve Vander Ark More to the point. Crouch, not really Moody, is really quite anxious that no one will suspect that he is not really Moody, but in fact an imposter. He must act exactly as Moody would act. How he behaves at Hogwarts is irrelevant (as long as he doesn't get caught) if he accomplishes his task -- to ensure that Harry is safely delivered to Voldemort. He does NOT want anyone else killing or hurting Harry, because Voldemort needs/wants Harry for the reanimation spell. Who said that Lucifer, if forced to assume the role of God, would eventually become God? Milton? (help, someone)So Crouch acts as Moody would have acted. My question is: would Moody really have bounced Malfoy? The adolescent impulsive let's get revenge person in all of us says YES... After all, Moody disliked Malfoy senior and junior as much as Crouch did (a death eater who walked free). If he delivers Harry, Crouch knows that Voldemort will kill Harry. Whether Crouch teaches Harry to successfully avoid the Imperius Curse is irrelevant. Harry will go to Voldemort and Harry will give his blood for the successful reanimation and then Harry will die. Even if he does not, Crouch will have succeeded, he will have done what Voldemort wanted, and Crouch will have demonstrated his loyalty and efficiency to his real, true father -- Voldemort. So he practices the Imperius curse with all the class, finds that HP can resist it the most, and stays in character -- practices with Harry so that Harry can resist it more. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 16 06:54:16 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:54:16 -0000 Subject: Crouch / Moody In-Reply-To: <93vcc6+5j84@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <940r6o+e94g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9336 > Amanda, your theory is really good. I wonder though, is it really > wise for V to take on the entire Hogwarts faculty, assorted Ministry > officials, and hundreds of people on his first day back? > > I had a different thought, which was that maybe he wants to maintain > his secret identity even after V is returned to power. So Harry needs > to disappear without the disappearance being traceable to Moody. But > what if the plot had worked and Harry HAD been killed--how would it > have looked from AD's perspective? The Cup is gone, Harry and Cedric > are gone--he's going to suspect the person who put the Cup into the > maze. > > Amy Z > Great post, amy, but I think you and Amanda both underestimate the arrogance of evil....Voldemort believes that his defeat at the hands of HP was a fluke and that this time he will prevail because he is most powerful.... From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Jan 16 07:28:33 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 02:28:33 -0500 Subject: Recommendations Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9337 Aha! As a professional Borders bookseller I find my skills called upon in a moment of crisis! Recommendations. For those "if you like HP" folks. In the Intermediate/Young Adult fiction category: 1. The series by John Bellairs series beginning with "The House with a Clock in Its Walls." It's about a young orphaned boy who goes to live with his uncle who turns out to be a wizard, along with his neighbor Mrs. Zimmerman. Follow the adventures of Lewis Barnevelt and his best friend Rose Rita Pottinger through "The Figure in the Shadows" and "The Letter, the Witch and the Ring." They're quite different in tone than HP and much shorter, but cool. The first book also boasts illos by Edward Gorey, the second by Mercer Mayer. 2. The "So You Want to Be a Wizard" series by Diane Duane. It continues with "Deep Wizardry," "High Wizardry" and "A Wizard Abroad" though the order in which those should be read escapes me at the moment. 3. "Holes" by Louis Sachar. Newbery Award winner, standard recommendation. Cool book. 4. They're hard to find, but the "Fell" series by M.E. Kerr are still some of my favorite books, though they're Young Adult. The first is "Fell," then "Fell Back" and "Fell Down." The adventures of eighteen year old John Fell, paid to impersonate a rich man's son at an exclusive boarding school. Fell, an aspiring chef, is a very cool character. 5. One of my fave books as a kid was "From the Mixed-Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler" by E.L. Konigsberg. 6. If you never read *all* the Oz books, get started. The Pullman series has already been mentioned. In the for-grownups category: 1. The books by Philip (first name unsure) Maguire are great. The first is "Wicked," the true story of the Wicked Witch of the West. Her childhood, how she became so evil. His new book "Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister" I haven't yet read but it looks equally cool. 2. If you're into the multi-volume sword and sorcery genre, you could start one of the two major series in that genre: the Robert Jordan Wheel of Time series (first book Eye of the Storm, number 9 just came out last month) or the Terry Goodkind Sword of Truth series (first book The Wizard's First Rule, number 6 (?) just came out a few months ago). 3. For sheer hilarity and biting satire, Terry Pratchett's books are priceless. Start with "Soul Music" in his Discworld series. "Small Gods" is one of my favorites. 4. "Good Omens" by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett is also hysterical, and managed to be so while being about the Apocalypse. 5. Some other general authors to try: David Brin (he's continuing the Foundation series and "The Postman" is amazing tho the movie sucked), Lois McMaster Bujold (Mirror Dance is a work of genius), or course our own Peg Kerr, Tad Williams, and the incomparable Tim Powers ("The Anubis Gates" is one of my favorite books). Orson Scott Card was the first genre author I embraced, and if you can find "Wyrms" it's amazing. Don't be put off by the weird title or the bad cover illo. If you haven't read the Ender series (first book Ender's Game) then get moving! Though she's not classified as a genre author, I love Margaret Atwood. Start with "Cat's Eye." Some other books I recommend that might not be in the SF/F genre: 1. "The Alienist" by Caleb Carr 2. "The Adventures of Kavalier & Klay" by Michael Chabon 3. Any book by Jane Hamilton (start with "A Map of the World") 4. Anything by Patricia Highsmith (she wrote "The Talented Mr. Ripley" and its many sequels)...she's fabulous 5. "Midwives" by Chris Bohjalian 6. John Irving is considered by many to be the greatest living American author...my favorite is "A Prayer for Owen Meany" though "The World According to Garp" and "The Cider House Rules" are also great. 7. "White Teeth" by Zadie Smith. The best first novel I've read in a long time. 8. "She's Come Undone" by Wally Lamb. 9. "The Remains of the Day" by Kazuo Ishiguro is a great book. Haven't read the new one. If you've never read Stephen King (don't give me that look, he's a great storyteller), I recommend you start with a good yet short one, like "Misery" or "Gerald's Game". "Dolores Claiborne" and "Gerald's Game" are something of a matched set. Don't dive into "The Stand" right away though most consider it his best work. "It" is also very good and complex, though pretty gory. "The Bachman Books" are also really good, but skip "Roadwork." Hope that gets you started. :-) Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "The Cell" Discman's spinning: "Bad Hair Day" Weird Al Yankovic Nighttable: "The Lost Continent" by Bill Bryson *************************************************** From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 16 08:03:32 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 08:03:32 -0000 Subject: Welcome Message (admin) Message-ID: <940v8l+95j4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9338 Hello and welcome to the Harry Potter for Grownups discussion group! Welcome especially to new members who found out about us from Salon.com and CNN. In the interests of getting to know you and you getting to know us as quickly and easily as possible, please read this message thoroughly. If you have any questions, please contact the moderators at hpforgrownups-owner at egroups.com. We're dedicated to in-depth, thought-provoking and fun discussions of the Harry Potter books, as well as the movies, merchandising and other aspects of the phenomenon we've come to know and love. While there is no age requirement to join the group, you should note that most of our members are over 18. Mature teenagers may enjoy the group, but may find themselves more at home in a group of their peers. In any case, we strongly encourage use of proper spelling, punctuation and grammar in posts, and expect all our members to observe common sense, courtesy and netiquette at all times. You can find out more about the netiquette of this club in the Files section of the eGroups site. The Moderators will also be sending out a separate netiquette message later this week. We moved here from Yahoo! Clubs, and have archived the messages from that service (about 8,000 of them!) at a separate eGroup with a search feature. You can access them by joining the HPforGrownups- Archives eGroup -- either send a blank email to HPforGrownups- Archives-subscribe at egroups.com or visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups-Archives We're currently going through "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" on a chapter-by-chapter basis and holding detailed character discussions on a weekly basis. For a list of the contributors, see the files section. For details of past discussions, you can use eGroups' nifty search function. To help new members get into the swing of things, a team of members is in the process of compiling an extensive set of substantive FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) in essay format, gleaned from past list postings and covering subjects such as Mysteries and Inconsistencies, Wands, Wizarding World Governments and major character sketches. We'll post them as they are completed and notify the group. REALLY frequently asked questions, such as the order Harry's parents come out of his wand, the gleam in Dumbledore's eye can be found in the RFAQ, which is still under construction. For detailed information on every aspect of the HP books, we highly recommend the Harry Potter Lexicon, maintained by Steve Vander Ark, one of our members. It can be found at http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Please take a few minutes to look through the Files, Database, Links and Polls sections of the club, where you will find even more HP- related information. We're also investigating the possibility of a UK Tour, taking in sights relevant to HP such as King's Cross, Edinburgh, the Scottish Highlands and more. Planning has moved to the HPTour eGroup -- to subscribe, send a blank email to HPTour-subscribe at egroups.com or visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPTour General questions can be directed to the List Owner, Penny Linsenmayer, at pennylin at swbell.net Legal stuff: In posting to this group, you grant the Moderators the right and license to use the content of your messages in other contexts. At this time, the Moderators intend to use this permission only for purposes of archiving and creating topical FAQs for the group, but reserve the right to use them for other purposes. If you have any concerns about infringement of your copyright, you are advised to contact the List Owner. Should you have any further questions, feel free to contact the List Owner. *** Neil, the Mechanimagus Moderator From yael_pou at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 09:27:21 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:27:21 +0200 Subject: Obsession quiz... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9339 Lol! A few points: 1. I object to losing points over the fanfic/fanart/filc question (11) These should be three different questions. Then, i can have two points for it. 2. After "Have you stayed up all night?" (40) you should ask "Have you taken the day off work/school to keep reading?" I have! 3. After the geographical question (48), you could add "Have you tried going to any of these locations?" and "More than one?" Thanks, yael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Their clothes were cut off the edge of the latest fashion, which was currently inclining towards wide hats, padded shoulders, narrow waists and pointed shoes and gave its followers the appearance of being very well-dressed nails." - Terry Pratchett, Pyramids. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 10:06:04 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:06:04 -0000 Subject: Where's the lake? (was Harry Potter Obsession . . .) In-Reply-To: <93vnhd+8ggf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9416ec+jqu1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9340 Steve asked: >So what did you come up with for an answer and, more importantly, >what proof did you find? I decided on south b/c in CoS, Ron and Harry fly over it before they narrowly miss the castle, and it appears that the whole journey has been due north from London. (I'd looked in lots of places in GoF but couldn't find any helpful mentions of the sun setting over the lake that I'd thought I remembered.) Not conclusive proof but pretty good. I didn't catch the PoA reference. Thanks, Simon. Amy Z. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 10:08:22 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:08:22 -0000 Subject: Where JKR really stole her ideas from In-Reply-To: <93vnku+iudj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9416im+jq01@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9341 Mike wrote: >A Specter's attack consists of lowering its hood (revealing "what >would have been its face, had it had one") and administering a fatal >"kiss", in which the soul is destroyed forever. There's a really good >paragraph where this is described, but I'm afraid I've loaned my copy >of the book to a friend, so I'm unable to quote it. Hello fellow HDM fan! Welcome to HPforGU! There ARE a lot of similarities between Dementors and Specters. Both series suggest that they cause mental illness among those who aren't even aware of them (Will's mother's obsessive-compulsive disorder [Subtle Knife], Muggles' depression [PoA]). I don't think there's anything about a hood or a kiss in HDM--which book do you think it's in? Specters essentially do the same thing as a Dementor's Kiss, namely they devour souls and leave the person a living but empty, despair-filled shell. But I don't recall the term "kiss" or any description of Specters other than their being ghostlike. Damn though, I hope there isn't any REAL plagiarism either way with these two authors. I love them both too much. Probably there isn't, they came out too simultaneously. Amy Z - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "I'm *not* going to be murdered," Harry said out loud. "That's the spirit, dear," said his mirror sleepily. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 10:09:58 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:09:58 -0000 Subject: obsession In-Reply-To: <940g63+46o5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9416lm+h59l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9342 Dr MM wrote: >61. Have you considered visiting the U.K. just to see where Platform >9 3/4 would be? Simon wrote: >This question is a bit silly as some of us actually live here. Scott wrote: >How about- Have you ever gone around King's Cross station bumping >into various walls trying to get to platform 9 3/4? Well, Londoners, have you? What happened? Tell! Tell! Scott: >Who was very upset when his Harry Potter pens ran out of ink during >the middle of Biology and then had to tell EVERYONE about it... Scott, how many times do we have to tell you--put an Eternal Fountain charm on them! Amy Z who hasn't been to London since pre-HP or she would've destroyed a trolley trying to get onto the Hogwarts Express ------------------------------------------------------------- "Very haunted up here, isn't it?" said Ron, with the air of one commenting on the weather. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 10:12:38 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:12:38 -0000 Subject: Macbeth a muggle? (was Re: Two questions..) In-Reply-To: <940cr4+r3es@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9416qm+dud0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9343 dherreid wrote: >Thanks for your ideas Amy and Peg! Although the scenes are remarkably >similar Macbeth is just a muggle and should have been surprised at the >appearance of his victims. To my mind Voldemorte should not have been >un-nerved by what he should have known to be mere smokey echoes. Oh, I don't think Macbeth was a muggle. He just didn't know he was a wizard, no Hagrid having ever shown up to inform him. Proof: He conjures up a dagger out of thin air (the dagger IS thin air, but never mind that) He takes Polyjuice Potion ("[We must] make our faces vizards to our hearts, / Disguising what they are" Act III, Scene ii) "I bear a charmed life" Act V, Scene viii "Deny me this, /And an eternal curse fall on you!" Act IV, Scene i He spends a lot of his spare time with witches. Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I've got two Neptunes here," said Harry after a while, frowning down at his piece of parchment, "that can't be right, can it?" "Aaaaah," said Ron, imitating Professor Trelawney's mystical whisper, "when two Neptunes appear in the sky, it is a sure sign that a midget in glasses is being born, Harry. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 10:16:20 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:16:20 -0000 Subject: Read Number five before thinking it's ot. In-Reply-To: <006701c07f79$1af666a0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <94171k+ni5i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9344 "Denise R" wrote: > I'm sending this due to #5. Enjoy. > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?? I don't get it. ? = Galleons, ? = Sickles,, ? = Knuts? Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 10:24:25 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:24:25 -0000 Subject: Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) In-Reply-To: <940r6o+e94g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9417gp+gav2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9345 Susan wrote: > Great post, amy, but I think you and Amanda both underestimate the > arrogance of evil....Voldemort believes that his defeat at the hands > of HP was a fluke and that this time he will prevail because he > is most powerful.... Thanks! Maybe in all the cutting and pasting I misled you about what I was responding to. The question I was trying to answer at that point was why the whole rigmarole with the Triwizard Tournament? Other than, it's a good plot device? Was anyone else strangely disappointed when Harry got in? I was pleasantly surprised when CD was the champion and then when Harry's name came out I thought "it figures, nothing exciting happens around here without Harry being tied up in it." I guess Ron isn't the only one to feel that way! Another plot convolution: no matter how confunded, the cup doesn't HAVE to choose Harry, but Voldemort's plan relies on it. This seems like a weak plot point. I suppose that no magical object would pass over The Boy Who Lived, but V wouldn't want to think that. He believes (or wants to) that Harry's just like anyone else. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 11:11:49 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:11:49 -0000 Subject: Who is Harry Potter? (long) Message-ID: <941a9l+nrmu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9346 (Fellow fanfic fans, none of this is to criticize a certain prominent fanfiction that I won't name [so as not to ruin it for those who haven't read it yet] in which Harry is in fact a new kind of wizard entirely. The idea is fine, and maybe it's where JKR is leading us too. But I have another view/hope, as you'll see.) * * * I have been thinking a lot about the question of who or what Harry really is. Why is he so important that Voldemort wanted to kill him when he was only 15 months old? This topic isn't new to the list, and there have been all sorts of interesting speculations about HP's being a descendent of Godric Gryffindor, etc. I am interested in taking it in a philosophical direction. What does it *mean,* *thematically,* if Harry is somehow, from birth, the fated, anointed Conqueror of Voldemort (or even Evil Itself)? What does it mean, thematically, if his importance stems from something different than that, something not so much inherent in his genes or background but emerging in the kind of person he is becoming? I have a strong bias toward the latter. You're even seeing my theology, heck, my Christology, here; I have always preferred a Jesus who is fully human, not God in disguise, because it holds out the promise that any of us can (and should) live as he lived. A too-exalted hero is beyond emulation. So I don't want Harry to turn out be a Christ figure, in the sense of being a superhuman who arrives on the scene to save us all from evil. I prefer whatever is extraordinary about him to emerge from his character, which we know is imperfect and evolving, just like everyone's. Yes, he's extraordinarily brave, etc., but not supernaturally so--his qualities aren't beyond the reach of any of the rest of us. JKR makes sure to show us that Hermione's smarter than Harry and Ron is just as brave as he is (at least where there are no spiders concerned . Ron'd lay his life down for his friends, and the side of right, in a second--the chess game in PS/SS, his standing up to Black in the Shrieking Shack in PoA). I think I'm backed up by Dumbledore here. His pet peeve is "purity of blood" and, by extension (and explicitly at the end of CoS), the idea that we are fated by our birth to be one thing or another. "It is our choices, rather than our abilities, that make us who we are." (quotes are approximate). Someone suggested once that "only a true Gryffindor could have taken GG's sword from the hat" might mean that Harry is a descendant of GG. Maybe, but I'm hoping not. Dumbledore has just gotten through telling him that the reason the Hat didn't put him in Slytherin was that he chose not to be in Slytherin. AD repeats this theme to Fudge in GoF, "The Parting of the Ways," when he points out that Crouch was as pureblooded as a wizard could be, and look what he chose to make of his life. No one is born to be good or evil. The very connections that Harry himself has to Voldemort and Slytherin underscore Dumbledore's point. The similarities between him and Riddle are there, I think, precisely to show us the importance of choices over inborn nature. For just one example, H and V took their halfblood status in completely different ways: V of course is ashamed of it, purges it by killing his father, and appears to be devoting his life to wiping out Muggles and their mixed-blood descendents. Harry particularly emphasizes that his mother was Muggle-born when he's challenging Riddle: that her birth did nothing to lessen her nobility, goodness or power to save him from Voldemort. He and Riddle have similar backgrounds and childhood experiences, they look alike, Jim Dale even makes them sound alike (well done Jim), but their choices are radically different, and that's what matters, just as Lily's choices (her love and sacrifice) were what saved Harry more than her talents as a witch. (Riddle calls Lily's love for Harry a powerful countercurse, but the term seems ironic to me. Love is a countercurse? What Lily did is beyond mere magical talent. It was a soul-choice and that is something more powerful than wizard blood or a talent for charms.) Dumbledore also asserts a humbler view of Harry than the Superman, new-species theory at the end of PS/SS. Harry is disappointed that his defeat of V 11 years before wasn't for all time (though not because of the blow to his own ego, which he doesn't seem to care about at all--what a wonderful person he is, isn't he?). Dumbledore says it's okay; as long as brave people keep fighting him when he tries to rise to power, perhaps they will continue to prevail. He isn't waiting for, or trying to turn Harry into, a single invincible savior. I realize that anyone who takes my view has to deal with the fact that Voldemort DID try to kill Harry when he was a mere toddler, which suggests some kind of prophecy or some other reason to think Harry was inherently special. I have a couple of theories, but I don't want to go into them right here because I'm less interested in the plot or evidence for JKR's opinion, more interested in what you all think about the themes raised by whichever option she's suggesting. What do you think? Amy Z From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 16 11:37:53 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:37:53 -0500 Subject: Chapter 26 - The Second Task References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <019c01c07cbc$d17d0060$232c07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c07e02$2b4a5520$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <00db01c07d9d$743bfdc0$242d07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 9347 In which Our Hero acts all heroic, thereby showing moral fiber, in the eyes of all but Karkaroff. The chapter opens on Harry explaining his adventures with The Egg and the Eye from the night before - describing Snape's words and actions, quoting Moody (well, quoting Barty Crouch at least); the first scene ends with Harry & Hermione accomplishing their banashing charms. Harry then writes to Sirius and the chapter turns to the task of figuring out how Harry can survive underwater for at least an hour. And they don't figure it out. They try. They look for charms, they look for transfigurations, Harry gets some words of encouragement from Hagrid, and Hermione & Ron, the night before the task, go missing. Harry spends that night in the library and is woken by Dobby, bearing Gillyweed (we learn later that it was basically planted on him by Crouch). The action moves briefly lakeside, and then it goes underwater, where Harry meets the Merpeople, sees who, other than the Squid, lives in the lake, and finally, finds the hostages tied to a rock in the Mer Village (let's call it Hogsmeade By The (I Mean In The) Sea). Harry is the first to reach the hostages and after cutting Ron free, he tries to rescue Hermione (and intends to rescue Cho and Fleur's sister as well) but the merpeople stop him. He stands by, nonetheless, until Godric and Krum arrive, but fleur never does, so Harry keeps the merpeople away from him with his wand, rescues the girl we later learn is named Gabrielle, and goes up to the surface, both hostages in tow. When they reach the surface, after Ron has helped Harry get Gabrielle to shore, Ron calls Harry a prat for waiting to make sure everyone was rescued, but thanks to a description of what Harry did from the Merchieftainess, the judges (all but Karkaroff) give Harry enough points to have him tie with Cedric. Questions: 1. Did Harry show moral fiber or was be being a prat? 2. Why didn't Harry look for any potions or plants to help with the task? Does he automatically veer towards charms and transfigurations for any particular reason, or is he genetically inclined to those areas, given that they were his parents' specialties? 3. Does Percy's protectiveness of Ron in this chapter change how you think of him? 4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? 5. If you were an H/H Shipper, would you consider the fact that Harry went to rescue Hermione before Cho as evidence that he likes her? How would you interprit this if you were an R/H shipper? From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 16 12:06:48 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:06:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - The Potters References: <3A53EB8E.58878953@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A643958.16C0442F@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 9348 ======================================== Character Summary: James Potter aka "HecameoutofthewandSECOND? Guy" ======================================== Name: James Potter Age: Undetermined, but evidence points to his being born in the very late 50's or early 60's, attending Hogwarts in the 70's, and being killed in his very early 20's. Job: No clue, but it will be important in a later book, according to JKR Description: A tall Harry without green eyes, excellent Quidditch player, from a wealthy wizarding family (implied by JKR in an interview where she said the Potters' money was inhereted). Occasionally sprouts horns, fur and hooves. On the Good Side Personality: Exceptionally bright mischief maker. Described by Professor McGonagall in PoA as (along with Sirius Black) "Ringleaders of their little gang. Both very bright, of course -- exceptionally bright, in fact -- but I don't think we've ever had such a pair of troublemakers --" Special abilities: * Is an unregistered Animagus * Excellent at transfiguration RELATIONSHIPS: Married Lily Evans (presumptively late 70's/VERY early 1980) Father to Harry Potter Best friend to Sirius Black, good friends with Remus Lupin, Peter Pettigrew Seems to have been close to Dumbledore, but it is unclear as to how Has been paired, in fanfiction, with Lily (natch!), various Mary Sues, Sirius Black, Severus Snape and Lucius Malfoy ======================================== Character Summary: Lily Evans Potter aka "Shecameoutofthewandfirst? Dammit!" ======================================== Name: Lily Evans Potter Age: Undetermined, but evidence points to her being born in the very late 50's or early 60's, attending Hogwarts in the 70's, and being killed in her very early 20's. Description: Dark red hair (long when she was killed) and bright green eyes -- exactly the same shape as Harry's. Job: No clue, but it will be important in a later book, according to JKR Personality: We have almost no idea about her normal, day to day personality. We know that she sacrificed herself for Harry, but exactly how, or even whether it was a completely conscious action, is completely unclear. Special abilities: * JKR has inferred that there is magic related to/that can be done by one's eyes, and that Lily has something to do with that. * Good at charms. RELATIONSHIPS: Wife to James Potter. Mother to Harry Potter. Sister to Petunia Evans Dursely. Has been paired in fanfictions with James Potter (natch!), Sirius Black, Severus Snape, and at least one "Mary Sue" Questions: 1. We have new people on the list, so for their benefit, should we discuss the wand thing again, or should we point people to http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Publications/priori-s.jpg which has a jpeg of the "corrected" page from the newer editions of GoF, wherein Lily comes out of the wand first? 2. Is James Sexy? (Food for thought: Nobody on this list has ever discussed whether James is sexy, even though there has been much discussion stating that his friends Sirius Black and Remus Lupin are (right, Carole?). On the PoU list, it has been stated that nobody ever seems to have a crush on James. Carole Estes and Cassandra Claire said there that the "only thing worse than a crush on a fictional guy is a crush on a dead, married fictional guy."). What about Lily? 3. Is James Potter a descendent of Godric Griffyndor? From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 16 12:09:13 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:09:13 -0500 Subject: Chapter Discussions & Character Discussions References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <019c01c07cbc$d17d0060$232c07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c07e02$2b4a5520$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <00db01c07d9d$743bfdc0$242d07d5@oemcomputer> <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A6439E9.8177F31B@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 9349 Oh, haven't I taken on a burden by doing the Chapter & Character Discussions during the week that we have an influx of so many people thanks to the Salon/CNN article! Just to let all of you know (although I know the moderators have already sent something to the list) every week, we, as a list, do a summary of a chapter from Goblet of Fire (aka GoF) and a discussion of a character or 2 from the book - one listie (this week, it's me) sends a post summarizing the chapter & about the characters to the list for discussion - I sent mine this morning, so, guys, DISCUSS! And welcome to all the newbies! From Serido8 at aol.com Tue Jan 16 12:18:13 2001 From: Serido8 at aol.com (Serido8 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 07:18:13 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Discussions & Character Discussions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9350 I keep on getting these emails -- can you please help me -- I need them to stop. I know I go to the website - sign in and then when I click on the envelope it says membrs only.? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 16 12:54:54 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:54:54 -0000 Subject: Recommendations In-Reply-To: <940h4i+oljo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <941gau+mrqv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9351 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Parker Brown Nesbit" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: > > Just wondering if anyone had any interesting recommendations. I'm > > pretty well-read in children's lit, but I'm always on the lookout > for > > new stuff. Overall, I've never really been into the fantasy/sci- fi > > thing, but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has any favorite > > series, please, let me know. > > -Mike Mikhail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita (1928-1940) should appeal to anyone who likes HP. Bulgakov wrote during the Stalinist era, and the novel - his masterpiece - was never published during his lifetime. It deals with the appearence of the devil Wotan and his entourage in the 1930s Moscow, the heroine's efforts to save her beloved (The Master, who is a great author) from a psychiatric institution (which culminates in her becoming a witch), all interspersed with chapters from's the Master's magnum opus, a narrative of the trial and crucifixion of Christ from the POV of Pontius Pilate. The story is by turns, hilarious, thought-provoking, chilling, and finally uplifting. Kevin Moss does for Master and Margarita what Steve Vander Ark does for Harry Potter at: http://cweb.middlebury.edu/bulgakov/ - CMC From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Jan 16 13:00:59 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:00:59 -0000 Subject: Chapter Discussions & Character Discussions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <941gmb+itbk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9352 To stop all the e-mails go to the "Subscribe" item on the left side menu. Click the bullet that says "Don't send me email, I'll read the messages at the Web site". You can also opt for a daily summary. Welcome to HPfGU -- we hope you enjoy your stay (minus all the e- mails). The Moderators --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Serido8 at a... wrote: > I keep on getting these emails -- can you please help me -- I need them to > stop. I know I go to the website - sign in and then when I click on the > envelope it says membrs only.? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Tue Jan 16 13:10:35 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:10:35 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 26 - The Second Task Message-ID: <01c07fbd$b6dda760$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 9353 >Questions: >1. Did Harry show moral fiber or was be being a prat? Both. 70% moral fibre, 30% prat. >2. Why didn't Harry look for any potions or plants to help with the task? Does >he automatically veer towards charms and transfigurations for any particular >reason, or is he genetically inclined to those areas, given that they were his >parents' specialties? Charms were very effective for the first task. Besides, I guess that for Harry Potions=Snape and Herbology is something good for Neville (I can't help the feeling that both Harry didn't respect Neville much before Harry learnt about his parents). I am surprised, however, that Hermione did not think of a Potion. >3. Does Percy's protectiveness of Ron in this chapter change how you think of >him? No, his reaction to the attack on Fat Lady (PoA) did. That was proper thing to do - call the Headmaster first. >4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? I guess she's simply too young for him. She's certainly more "adult" than Ron, but not enough. Monika From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Tue Jan 16 13:14:54 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:14:54 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Recommendations References: Message-ID: <01b601c07fbf$01ea7e80$022a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9354 Going with the long adult-reading list I'd also throw in all Amelia Peabody books by Elizabeth Peters (though they probably have more appeal to a woman than a man) The "Darkover"-Series by Marion Zimmer-Bradley. Anything by that lady, for she truly is the BEST (JMHO) I don't know if his books are translated into English, but Michael Ende is a fabulous author. "The Neverending Story" is one of the best fantasy books out there (the movies are horrible and don't really resemble the book) "Momo" is good, too. If you like it a bit more gruesome, read The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From voicelady at mymailstation.com Tue Jan 16 14:38:51 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 16 Jan 2001 06:38:51 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter Discussions & Character Discussions Message-ID: <20010116143851.12037.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9355 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 16 14:54:56 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:54:56 -0000 Subject: Draco/Dudley comparison (was: Character Summary: Malfoy Snr.) In-Reply-To: <3A627013.31973205@attglobal.net> Message-ID: <941nc0+n2km@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9356 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Peg Kerr wrote: > ABoyko at s... wrote: > > > I think of the Malfoys as the wizard equivalent of the > > Dursleys. They're going to get their comeuppance the same way the Dursleys > > have been getting theirs (ballooning aunts, ton-tongues). > > This is an elegant structural observation. After all, the major preoccupation > for both the Dursleys and the Malfoys is that they be grouped with "the right > sort." And both Dursley and Draco act as Harry's nemesis, in the muggle world > and wizard world respectively. > > What WOULD Draco and Dudley think of each other? Draco's family hates Muggles, > but Draco and Dudley do have a lot in common. They're both greedy, both > bullies, esp. toward Harry, etc. Structural twins. And both are the products > of their parents' and particularly their fathers' rotten values. Perhaps they > would recognize each other as kindred spirits in a sick, twisted way. > > Huh. Good point, Angela. > > Peg Whew, I think it's a brilliant point, Angela, and augmented brilliantly by Peg....... On the one hand, we have the Dursleys who despise and oppress anything magical...they are desperate, and will use violence to prevent anyone even knowing that they are connected with a wizard. Their greatest fear is that someone will connect them with the Potters..that someone will know that they are connected with the wizard trash.. Then, otoh, we have the Malfoys...Draco starts out his association with Harry suggesting to Harry that those who do not have a wizard father and witch mother should not be allowed at Hogwarts. There is a major emphasis on "pure blood". When Hermione is called "mudblood", Ron responds by fighting, because it's such a foul insult. Draco (in the canon, I don't read fanfic) continues to suggest that there is only one kind of wizard and Harry doesn't know what's good for him by associating with the wrong kind. They really are mirror opposites in their bigotry. Fascinating. From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 16 15:23:50 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:23:50 EST Subject: more fun quiz questions Message-ID: <5f.f9487b6.2795c186@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9357 The Knight Bus had a conductor, Stan Shunpike, but what was the name of the driver? What is the name of the Weasley family owl? How many galleons did Arthur Weasley win in the Daily Prophet Draw? Name the person most important to Fleur in the GoF...and their exact relationship... While the Weasley family was in Egypt, where was Hermione? What did Madame Maxine's steeds need to drink? In the PS/SS, a friend of Dudley's goes with Dudley, Vernon, Petunia and Harry to the zoo. What was his name and what was his usual practice? And where was the snake from? Aunt Marge?s dog chased Harry up a tree. What was the dog's name? (and why did he do nothing during the night?) What is Uncle Vernon?s drill making company called? What is the tavern that leads into Dragon Alley called? What was the name of the wizard who bowed to Harry in the street before Harry knew he was a wizard? Who was the prime suspect for setting off fireworks upon the demise of Lord Voldemort? There was a substitute teacher for Professor Hagrid while he was reeling under the attacks of Rita Skeeter? Name? And what did the class learn about? Dumbledore likes to listen to chamber music in his spare time and what else (according to the card)? What are Bill Weasley's boots made from? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 15:55:16 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:55:16 -0000 Subject: Who is Harry Potter? (long) In-Reply-To: <941a9l+nrmu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <941qt5+tvdk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9358 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: What does it *mean,* *thematically,* if Harry is somehow, from birth, the fated, anointed Conqueror of Voldemort (or even Evil > Itself)? What does it mean, thematically, if his importance stems > from something different than that, something not so much inherent in his genes or background but emerging in the kind of person he is > becoming? >I prefer whatever is > extraordinary about him to emerge from his character, which we know is > imperfect and evolving, just like everyone's. Yes, he's > extraordinarily brave, etc., but not supernaturally so--his qualities > aren't beyond the reach of any of the rest of us. > I think I'm backed up by Dumbledore here. His pet peeve is "purity of > blood" and, by extension (and explicitly at the end of CoS), the idea > that we are fated by our birth to be one thing or another. *****"It is our > choices, rather than our abilities, that make us who we are." ***** ------------------------ I don't know how it feels for everyone else, but to me, this is the major theme of the books. I think JKR draws parallels between Harry and Voldemort and shows their great similarities specifically to point out that it's their different decisions that set them apart, and not their predetermined goodness or badness. I think we're given the same sorts of parallels with Neville and Peter. Harry himself draws this comparison, and McGonagal seems to react to the two of them similarly, as well. She mentions in the 3 Broomsticks her regret at having been particularly harsh with Pettigrew, and in the same book tears Neville apart over the Gryffindor passwords, imposing punishments that were to last throughout the rest of the term. I think we're going to see Neville make vastly different decisions from those of Pettigrew. To me this says that, great (Harry/Voldemort) or small (Peter/Neville), we all have to choose who and what we will become. ------------------ > > I realize that anyone who takes my view has to deal with the fact that > Voldemort DID try to kill Harry when he was a mere toddler, which > suggests some kind of prophecy or some other reason to think Harry was > inherently special. > ------------------ I don't think this changes the fact that Harry has free will. He has made the choices that have made him who he is, and will continue to do so as he grows and evolves as a person. But if we're talking about the wizarding world, where even Trelawny can make accurate predictions every once in awhile, perhaps it was still forseen that this child's desicions would make him the person who one day defeated Voldemort. Or maybe he *is* the descendant of Gryffindor. I'm sure Gryffindor had other descendants - were they all like Harry? Did they all choose to stand against evil, be a true and loyal friend, and have the nobility he showed in GoF when he brought Cedric's body back to his family? These are the kinds of choices that make Harry special. But another question that would have to be answered along with this is: Why, if Harry isn't inherently special, or different, or whatever, was Voldemort not only unable to kill him, but unable to survive trying without loosing everything? I honestly think it was nothing more than Lily's choice to die protecting Harry that saved him. I don't think there was some special secret charm performed, some special power of Harry's, or any other big mystery. I think a sacrificial love like that is, like Amy quoted Riddle as saying, a powerful countercurse, and much, much more, and I think that alone at least *should* have been enough to destroy Voldemort the way it did. At least that's my theory. kimberly From bkdelong at pobox.com Tue Jan 16 16:06:52 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:06:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] more fun quiz questions In-Reply-To: <5f.f9487b6.2795c186@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010116110602.06791120@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9359 I've got one: What are the first names of Professor Flitwick and Professor Sprout? From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 16 16:15:18 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:15:18 -0000 Subject: Who is Harry Potter? (long) In-Reply-To: <941qt5+tvdk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <941s2m+dncv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9360 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > Why, if Harry isn't inherently special, or different, or whatever, was > Voldemort not only unable to kill him, but unable to survive trying > without loosing everything? > I honestly think it was nothing more than Lily's choice to die > protecting Harry that saved him. I don't think there was some special > secret charm performed, some special power of Harry's, or any other > big mystery. I think a sacrificial love like that is, like Amy quoted > Riddle as saying, a powerful countercurse, and much, much more, and I > think that alone at least *should* have been enough to destroy > Voldemort the way it did. At least that's my theory. I just feel that there has to be something more to it. As Lori wrote in Paradigm of Uncertainty (her wonderful fanfic, for those who are new to this list, which is avaialble at http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory- authorProfile&userid=3572) there were other witches & wizards who sacrificed themselves for their family - and sometimes, there must've been witches & wizards who even sacrificed themselves for strangers - but the people they were protecting died anyway. I don't know, maybe it's as simple as the phase of the moon & placement of the stars (the centuars would probably agree to that) but JKR's made so much of Lily's eyes (which is a very "secret garden" thing to do) and harry's eyes' similarity - it might be something as simple as that - or it might be a lot more complicated, and more ingrained with *who* Harry is (which I guess brings us back up to the original question). From hamster8 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 16:18:10 2001 From: hamster8 at hotmail.com (hamster8 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:18:10 -0000 Subject: Chapter 26 - The Second Task In-Reply-To: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <941s82+2car@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9361 I'm assuming we can just jump right in here and give some opinions ... so here goes, if I'm wrong, flame me to oblivion, people! Questions: 1. Did Harry show moral fiber or was be being a prat? -Imagine what you'd do in the same situation ... you're panicking, you don't know whether the song was *trustworthy* or not. I wouldn't be acting out any kind of plan. I don't believe Harry saved the others out of any kind of moral fibre, equally, I don't think it makes him a prat, I think he was just panicky. 2. Why didn't Harry look for any potions or plants to help with the task? Does he automatically veer towards charms and transfigurations for any particular reason, or is he genetically inclined to those areas, given that they were his parents' specialties? -I don't know. The genetic thing, I'll go with that! Maybe he's just not thinking straight, after all, he's only human. 3. Does Percy's protectiveness of Ron in this chapter change how you think of him? -I didn't read anything into that. I think he's just displaying a typical older brother reaction ... we already know Percy is kind of pompous and overprotective anyway. As far as I'm concerned, it changes nothing. 4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? -Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it here that we first really see 'confirmation' of the relationship proper, aside from just dancing at the Yule Ball. I think here Krum certainly seems very 'protective' of Hermione, he takes the water beetle/Rita Skeeter out of her hair for her. The relationship seems a lot more cemented after the second task. 5. If you were an H/H Shipper, would you consider the fact that Harry went to rescue Hermione before Cho as evidence that he likes her? How would you interpret this if you were an R/H shipper? -If I was a shipper, yes I would. Food for thought, hmm. Very interesting too ... right Al, back into lurk mode for a while! From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 16:37:54 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:37:54 -0000 Subject: Chapter 26 - The Second Task In-Reply-To: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <941td2+p81g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9362 > 3. Does Percy's protectiveness of Ron in this chapter change how you think of > him? Protectiveness, no. Terror on behalf of, yes. This is one of the few places we really see Percy's emotions and I really liked that. > 5. If you were an H/H Shipper, would you consider the fact that Harry went to > rescue Hermione before Cho as evidence that he likes her? How would you > interprit this if you were an R/H shipper? I'm only a lukewarm shipper (& R/H at that) so I'm not the one to answer . . . but seems to me even the most passionate H/H shippers seldom argue that Harry is smitten with Hermione (as yet)--they focus on whether Hermione is smitten with him. Correct me if I'm wrong. Hermione's concern with Harry to the exclusion of Viktor post-rescue is a mark in the H/H column, I have to admit. I think he rescues Hermione first because he cares more for her. No surprise, and no romance implied. Cho is just a crush; Hermione's been his friend for 3 1/2 years. Don't you want to know whether we think the fact that Ron is "what he'll sorely miss" argues for R/Ha shippers? (Answer: Nah. But go ahead and ship to your hearts' content.) Amy Z From joym999 at aol.com Tue Jan 16 16:38:39 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:38:39 -0000 Subject: Obsession quiz... In-Reply-To: <9405g4+5rem@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <941tef+qvqi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9363 Great quiz! A few suggestions: > 11. Do you write fanfic/filk or draw fanart? This question should be expanded, or maybe another question added, to include those of us who write other HP related stuff, like the sort of thing Peg writes which I guess you could call literary criticism, or maybe literary analysis. Maybe something like: Do you make lists or write lengthy commentaries about various aspects of the HP books, such as the inconsistencies, mysteries, characterizations, etc.? Also this question or another should include the satire or parody or whatever it is that myself and John Walton and nlplnt and eggplant and others write. > 15. Are you Steve Vander Ark? This is definitely worth an extra few points of obsessiveness all by itself. > 25. Do you know what shipper means? > 26. Are you a shipper? > 27. Do you write lengthy tretises on why one ship is better than > another? > 28. Do you write fanfic devoted to one ship? > Are you Penny? (heheh, just kidding) ;) Maybe its because I am not a shipper but 4 questions on shipping seems excessive. Of course, excessive is the name of the game here, I suppose. And speaking of our fearless leader, Penny has admitted that she is reading the HP books to her unborn child using a fetal microphone. I think she should get an extra point for that alone. -- Joywitch From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 16 15:51:52 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:51:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where JKR really stole her ideas from Message-ID: <200101161640.f0GGeVC24504@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9364 Here's the first part of a booktalk I use for promoting "Wizard's Hall" by Jane Yolen to students (I do the first part of this without showing them the book): The next book I'm going to tell you about features a boy who is 11 years old, and he's going off to boarding school. But it's not an ordinary boarding school--his is a school for wizards. Before he went to this school, he never once thought that he might be a wizard. But then he goes there, and meets new friends, and has adventures. He even faces the most evil wizard there is, a wizard so evil no other wizard wants to say his name out loud. (Of course, by this point, the kids are all looking at me like I'm totally out of it, and muttering "Harry Potter, duh!" So then I say...) The boy's name is Henry and his school is called Wizard's Hall... Gets a reaction anyway. (Though Henry is more Neville Longbottom than Harry Potter, and HP is definitely the better book, but then I'm not biased or anything!) Oh, and my other thought: Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was flying long before the Weasleys' flying Ford Anglia. Kathy From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 16:45:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:45:36 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - The Potters In-Reply-To: <3A643958.16C0442F@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <941trg+2toh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9365 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > 2. Is James Sexy? On the PoU list, it has been stated that nobody ever > seems to have a crush on James. What about Lily? Maybe we don't know them well enough. Even the most tireless imaginations need something to get a hold of before spinning their fantasies. Unless you just have a major thing for untidy hair, green eyes, or last words before being murdered, there ain't much to go on yet. Sexy or not, I hope we learn more about J & L in future books. I keenly feel Harry's complete ignorance about them. If I were him I'd be demanding long owls from Sirius telling school stories. Amy Z From joym999 at aol.com Tue Jan 16 16:58:51 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:58:51 -0000 Subject: more fun quiz questions In-Reply-To: <5f.f9487b6.2795c186@aol.com> Message-ID: <941ukc+a48h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9366 I will take a stab at these: > The Knight Bus had a conductor, Stan Shunpike, but what was the name of the > driver? > Ernie something...Macmillan? > What is the name of the Weasley family owl? > Errol > How many galleons did Arthur Weasley win in the Daily Prophet Draw? > 750? > Name the person most important to Fleur in the GoF...and their exact > relationship... > her sister, Gabrielle or Giselle or something French that begins with a G. Where did she come from, anyway? All the other hostages were Hogwarts students. > While the Weasley family was in Egypt, where was Hermione? > France > What did Madame Maxine's steeds need to drink? > single malt whisky? > In the PS/SS, a friend of Dudley's goes with Dudley, Vernon, Petunia and > Harry to the zoo. What was his name and what was his usual practice? Piers Polkiss. Holding people while Dudley smacked them? And > where was the snake from? > Brazil > Aunt Marge???s dog chased Harry up a tree. What was the dog's name? (and why > did he do nothing during the night?) > got me there. > What is Uncle Vernon???s drill making company called? > Grunnings > What is the tavern that leads into Dragon Alley called? > The Leaky Cauldron; and that should say Diagon Alley. > What was the name of the wizard who bowed to Harry in the street before > Harry knew he was a wizard? > Dedalus Dingle? > Who was the prime suspect for setting off fireworks upon the demise of Lord > Voldemort? > Dedalus Dingle again? > There was a substitute teacher for Professor Hagrid while he was reeling > under the attacks > of Rita Skeeter? Name? And what did the class learn about? > Professor Grubby-Plank. Unicorns. > Dumbledore likes to listen to chamber music in his spare time and what else > (according to the card)? > ten pin bowling > What are Bill Weasley's boots made from? > dragon hide good trivia quiz. thanks. -- Joywitch From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 16 17:38:19 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:38:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Recommendations References: <01b601c07fbf$01ea7e80$022a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A64870A.2A1077AB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9367 Anything by Guy Gavriel Kay, but especially the trilogy of "The Summer Tree," "The Darkest Road," and I can never remember the other (book 2, I think). They're the kind of books that you finish, and then when you look at the book itself you're astonished it's not thicker, there was so much going on in there. --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 18:06:32 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:06:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Read Number five before thinking it's ot. References: <94171k+ni5i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015801c07feb$b3dfbac0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9368 Sorry folks. Somehow "IT" ate my paragraph that I referred to in #5~ So here goes again: Top 10 Reasons for drops in crime 1.70 percent of former crooks are now consultants for Microsoft 2.Armed robbers are addicted to " whos wants to be a millionaire?" 3.Survivor 4.Increased traffic congestion makes driveby shootings extremely difficult 5.Bad guys do sure love Harry Potter Books 6.Playstation 2 7.Prozac 8.No ten year old whos ever seen a episode of oz is going to risk incarceration 9.Compstat 10.A lot of overworked,underpaid cops busting their ass to make a better place ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 4:16 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Read Number five before thinking it's ot. "Denise R" wrote: > I'm sending this due to #5. Enjoy. > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?? I don't get it. ? = Galleons, ? = Sickles,, ? = Knuts? Amy Z eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 17:54:57 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:54:57 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Welcome Message (admin) Tsk tsk... and not a mention of chats...? References: <940v8l+95j4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <015601c07feb$ae933920$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9369 Grins.... J/K Neil! I'm Dee, and I along with Rita (Cat Lady) and Simon run the sister club to this, Chatscripts, accessible via the link in the LINKS section. We post the weekly chats there for access to those who can't make them (like me currently, :( due to my dialup!). If you're interested in joining the chats, I know that I'm eastern, and I pop in around 3pm on Sundays to the Yahoo club (via Cheetachat, a wonderful program that helps me record the chat) chatroom. For more details, check out the other egroup! http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownupsChatScripts/ :) ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Flying Ford Anglia To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 2:03 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Welcome Message (admin) Hello and welcome to the Harry Potter for Grownups discussion group! Welcome especially to new members who found out about us from Salon.com and CNN. In the interests of getting to know you and you getting to know us as quickly and easily as possible, please read this message thoroughly. If you have any questions, please contact the moderators at hpforgrownups-owner at egroups.com. We're dedicated to in-depth, thought-provoking and fun discussions of the Harry Potter books, as well as the movies, merchandising and other aspects of the phenomenon we've come to know and love. While there is no age requirement to join the group, you should note that most of our members are over 18. Mature teenagers may enjoy the group, but may find themselves more at home in a group of their peers. In any case, we strongly encourage use of proper spelling, punctuation and grammar in posts, and expect all our members to observe common sense, courtesy and netiquette at all times. You can find out more about the netiquette of this club in the Files section of the eGroups site. The Moderators will also be sending out a separate netiquette message later this week. We moved here from Yahoo! Clubs, and have archived the messages from that service (about 8,000 of them!) at a separate eGroup with a search feature. You can access them by joining the HPforGrownups- Archives eGroup -- either send a blank email to HPforGrownups- Archives-subscribe at egroups.com or visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups-Archives We're currently going through "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" on a chapter-by-chapter basis and holding detailed character discussions on a weekly basis. For a list of the contributors, see the files section. For details of past discussions, you can use eGroups' nifty search function. To help new members get into the swing of things, a team of members is in the process of compiling an extensive set of substantive FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) in essay format, gleaned from past list postings and covering subjects such as Mysteries and Inconsistencies, Wands, Wizarding World Governments and major character sketches. We'll post them as they are completed and notify the group. REALLY frequently asked questions, such as the order Harry's parents come out of his wand, the gleam in Dumbledore's eye can be found in the RFAQ, which is still under construction. For detailed information on every aspect of the HP books, we highly recommend the Harry Potter Lexicon, maintained by Steve Vander Ark, one of our members. It can be found at http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Please take a few minutes to look through the Files, Database, Links and Polls sections of the club, where you will find even more HP- related information. We're also investigating the possibility of a UK Tour, taking in sights relevant to HP such as King's Cross, Edinburgh, the Scottish Highlands and more. Planning has moved to the HPTour eGroup -- to subscribe, send a blank email to HPTour-subscribe at egroups.com or visit http://www.egroups.com/group/HPTour General questions can be directed to the List Owner, Penny Linsenmayer, at pennylin at swbell.net Legal stuff: In posting to this group, you grant the Moderators the right and license to use the content of your messages in other contexts. At this time, the Moderators intend to use this permission only for purposes of archiving and creating topical FAQs for the group, but reserve the right to use them for other purposes. If you have any concerns about infringement of your copyright, you are advised to contact the List Owner. Should you have any further questions, feel free to contact the List Owner. *** Neil, the Mechanimagus Moderator eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alw at wilsonllp.com Tue Jan 16 17:45:51 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:45:51 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 26 - The Second Task References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <019c01c07cbc$d17d0060$232c07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c07e02$2b4a5520$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <00db01c07d9d$743bfdc0$242d07d5@oemcomputer> <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <00ca01c07fe4$2b096180$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 9370 4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? I wouldn't be surprised if Krum comes back to Hogwarts next year. He makes the comment at the end of GoF that he like it there and Dumbledore has opened the doors for any of them to come back. He might make an interesting DADA teacher - they did learn them (the Dark Arts) at Durmstrang(sp?). Krum coming back would create all sorts of issues for Harry, Ron and Hermione. With Harry, it would be Quidditch - he'd be playing in front of a Quidditch player he admires. With Hermione, Krum being at Hogwarts might give her relation Ron an added dimension. With Ron, he'd have all sorts of problems - I don't think he ever truly resolved the fact that his idol was dating his er, friend. In GoF, the relationship between Hermione and Krum came across as Krum being the first boy who really paid attention to her. I think she probably would go visit him over the summer and if he came back to Hogwarts (hmm, dating a teacher, I wonder if there are rules against that in the wizarding world) they may date for a bit, but I think it would dissolve into a friendship. Their relationship may just end up being the catalyst needed to prod Hermione into a relationship with one of her *other* friends (and I'm stopping there). Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 16 17:54:34 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:54:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] more fun quiz questions References: <5f.f9487b6.2795c186@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A648AD9.1C299155@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9371 Oooh, oooh, I love these! I've stopped reviewing email so I won't see any other answers, so here goes... Schlobin at aol.com wrote: > The Knight Bus had a conductor, Stan Shunpike, but what was the name of the > driver? Ernie? > What is the name of the Weasley family owl? Errol. > How many galleons did Arthur Weasley win in the Daily Prophet Draw? Seven hundred...I think > Name the person most important to Fleur in the GoF...and their exact > relationship... Her little sister Gabrielle. > While the Weasley family was in Egypt, where was Hermione? France. Where she ate bouillabaise. > What did Madame Maxine's steeds need to drink? Single-malt whiskey. Discerning breed. > In the PS/SS, a friend of Dudley's goes with Dudley, Vernon, Petunia and > Harry to the zoo. What was his name and what was his usual practice? And > where was the snake from? Piers? Something like that? And he was as fond of making Harry's life hell as Dudley was. The snake was born in a zoo, but I don't recall if he specified the London zoo or not. > Aunt Marges dog chased Harry up a tree. What was the dog's name? (and why > did he do nothing during the night?) Oooh, this one and the next are dancing just out of my reach, but I will NOT go down the hall to my husband's bedside and look. I'm trying to do this cold. > What is Uncle Vernons drill making company called? Errrrgh. I. Will. Not. Go. Look. ! > What is the tavern that leads into Dragon Alley called? The Leaky Kettle > What was the name of the wizard who bowed to Harry in the street before > Harry knew he was a wizard? > > Who was the prime suspect for setting off fireworks upon the demise of Lord > Voldemort? Winky the house-elf? Or am I forgetting some human? > There was a substitute teacher for Professor Hagrid while he was reeling > under the attacks of Rita Skeeter? Name? Grubbly-Plank, wasn't it? I'm not certain. > And what did the class learn about? Unicorns! > Dumbledore likes to listen to chamber music in his spare time and what else > (according to the card)? > > What are Bill Weasley's boots made from? Dragon hide. Lucchese in San Antonio was right out of it when I called.... From l_elad at zahav.net.il Sun Jan 14 17:27:48 2001 From: l_elad at zahav.net.il (Elad Levy) Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2001 19:27:48 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) References: <018301c07f01$a4ffdb60$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <000001c07f1d$10697620$6bf808d5@levy> No: HPFGUIDX 9372 when did anyone say that ron has a gift to see the future? where is it written? ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 4:44 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) > Dee, you're braver than I was...I was going to wait until someone else said something. > > Psychic...no. At times an eerie sixth sense...yes - and it can be very disturbing. I was in a car accident about 5 years ago. Living in Atlanta, car accidents are a dime a dozen, but as I was sitting in traffic waiting to get onto the interstate, I *knew* I was going to get hit. Unfortunately, traffic prevented me from doing anything about it and I got on the interstate. I decided to be a good girl for a change and stay in the lane I eventually needed to be in...mile or two later I get rear ended by an SUV going 50 or 60 mph (I drive a much smaller car). I escaped remarkably unscathed...just some rotator cuff damage. However, the whole experience was very unsettling. On one hand, it could have, like many "predictions", been a self-fulfilling prophecy. I typically would get over a couple lanes and then got back into the lane I needed to avoid sitting in traffic. However, that day, I stayed put. If I had done what I normally did, would I have still gotten hit? Who! > knows - that opens up a whole new can of worms as to whether or not certain events are going to happen regardless of what we do. > > Back to Harry and company...I think Ron would have a very hard time coming to terms with his "gift". He, and just about everyone else he hangs out with, thinks so little of Divination, that I don't know if he could bring himself to accept that *he* had some talent with it. I would imagine that there are very few people who can successfully deal with *knowing* what's going to happen - especially when you're best friend is Harry Potter...the boy who by the age of 14 had faced Voldemort how many times now? You see him having to face Voldemort and getting hurt - as his best friend, I would think you'd want to do everything in your power to stop that from happening. How would you feel when you couldn't? > > Thinking about it, I have a little more tolerance for Professor Trelawney...no wonder she sticks to herself. If she has *any* ability, I would imagine that she would get tired of knowing that there's nothing she can do to prevent things from happening, because that does seem to be her stance on things - that the future is already set. > > Amy > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sister Mary Lunatic > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 1:40 AM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) > > > I'm interested in Harry's ability to do astral traveling while he's asleep. > He witnessed the scene with Voldemort, Wormtail, Nagini, and old Frank in > his dream. I wonder if he will have similar dreams in the future. > > Would Ron's natural gift for prediction of future events be harmed if he > became aware of it? Would he be so alarmed at developing a > Trelawney-oriented talent that he would deliberately try to suppress it? > Would he or Harry or Hermione be inclined to trust in the veracity of Ron's > predictions, or would they wonder that he was "forcing" his intuition? > > Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to predict > future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have turned out > to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms with this > ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to admit to > psychic powers? > > SML > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan McGee [mailto:Schlobin at aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 10:30 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: yet more evidence of Ron's prescience > > > Ron as seer could be the special niche that he is looking for...we > see glimpses of it as an adolescent, but it could be a talent that > flowers as he grows older..... > > Susan > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 16 18:09:04 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 12:09:04 -0600 Subject: Do vampires bleed? Message-ID: <3A648E3F.DBBAED3C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9373 I just thought of this. I'm not up on the many, many versions of vampires out there, but if Snape were a vampire, would Fluffy have been able to wound him like that? Do vampires bleed? Or that much? --Amanda From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 16 18:36:20 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:36:20 -0000 Subject: Welcome Message (admin) Tsk tsk... and not a mention of chats...? In-Reply-To: <015601c07feb$ae933920$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <9424b4+eolg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9374 Dee said: > J/K Neil! > I'm Dee, and I along with Rita (Cat Lady) and Simon run the sister club to this, Chatscripts, accessible via the link in the LINKS section. We post the weekly chats there for access to those who can't make them (like me currently, :( due to my dialup!). If you're interested in joining the chats, I know that I'm eastern, and I pop in around 3pm on Sundays to the Yahoo club (via Cheetachat, a wonderful program that helps me record the chat) chatroom. > > For more details, check out the other egroup! http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownupsChatScripts/ *** Thanks Dee! At least you didn't bonk me on the head... Hmmmm. That Welcome Message gets longer by the hour, but you're right, it should mention the chats as well. At the moment there is one regular chat session on Sundays. To check the start time for your zone, go to the Calendar area of this club and make sure the time zone on the right of the page shows your city (or one near to it). The chat session should then show up every Sunday in the correct time-band for your geographical zone. You can link to the Chatscripts club through the Portkey Jim has set up in the Files area of the club. To complicate matters further, we don't use the Chat facility in eGroups, we use the one at our old home, Yahoo! You'll need to become a member there to enter: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups As Dee said, check out ChatScripts for more info Neil, the Mechanimagus Moderator From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 18:36:48 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:36:48 -0000 Subject: Do vampires bleed? In-Reply-To: <3A648E3F.DBBAED3C@texas.net> Message-ID: <9424c0+m46m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9375 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I just thought of this. I'm not up on the many, many versions of > vampires out there, but if Snape were a vampire, would Fluffy have been > able to wound him like that? Do vampires bleed? Or that much? Is there a Snape-is-a-vampire theory going around that we should know about? Sure puts his tense relationship with Lupin in a new light. Amy Z From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Tue Jan 16 18:53:17 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:53:17 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Do vampires bleed? References: <9424c0+m46m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <011301c07fed$983a2ce0$712a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9376 Snape's tense relationship with Lupin.... hmm, they are both Dark Creatures, so they should rather like each other, shouldn't they? And *if* he was a Vampire, then he wouldn't have to be afraid, being bitten by Lupin wouldn't have done a thing for him. Or did you ever hear of a Vampire-Werewolf? And I'm sure Remus never tried to eat him, he has better taste, even when having a wolfish-phase. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Jan 16 19:18:16 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:18:16 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - The Potters Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9377 *** > 2. Is James Sexy? On the PoU list, it has been stated that ** nobody ever ** > seems to have a crush on James. What about Lily? ** ** Maybe we don't know them well enough. Even the most tireless ** imaginations need something to get a hold of before spinning their ** fantasies. Unless you just have a major thing for untidy ** hair, green ** eyes, or last words before being murdered, there ain't much to go on ** yet. It's hard to say if he's sexy or not, except to think "Well, I adore Harry, and he's supposedly just like his father, yet James is an adult so I don't have to feel like I'm in love with an 11 year old" then yes. James is sexy. :) And I do have a thing for dark, untidy hair and a definite thing for green eyes... Meredith From catlady at wicca.net Tue Jan 16 19:14:33 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:14:33 -0000 Subject: more fun quiz questions In-Reply-To: <5f.f9487b6.2795c186@aol.com> Message-ID: <9426ip+83g4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9378 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Schlobin at a... wrote: > > The Knight Bus had a conductor, Stan Shunpike, but what was the > name of the driver? Ernie Prang. In Pogonia's HARRY POTTER AND THE DOOMSPELL POTION, he has been replaced by a woman who actually knows how to drive. > > What is the name of the Weasley family owl? Errol. > > How many galleons did Arthur Weasley win in the Daily Prophet Draw? I can't remember if it waas 1000 or 7000. > > Name the person most important to Fleur in the GoF... and their > exact relationship... Her little sister Gabrielle. Who is another pale blonde, presumably also 1/4 veela. Speaking of Fleur's family, her mother came to see her on parents' day and was glimpsed by Harry with no auctorial comment on her appearance. Which leads me to suspect that the half-veela parent was the father. Does it mean anything that HE didn't come to parents' day, or was he just at the office like Mr. Weasley? > > While the Weasley family was in Egypt, where was Hermione? South of France, getting tan and learning to eat bouillabaise. No, I'm wrong, that was the previous summer. I don't know this one. > > What did Madame Maxine's steeds need to drink? Single-malt whiskey. Which we do not doubt that Hagrid has available. I have arbitrarily declared that this is specifically single-malt CORN (maize) whiskey => Bourbon => a reference to the Bourbon dynasty of French kings, and thus another 'France' joke. > > In the PS/SS, a friend of Dudley's goes with Dudley, Vernon, > Petunia and Harry to the zoo. What was his name and what was his > usual practice? Piers Polkiss. He and Dudley took turns holding Harry so the other one could punch him in the stomach. I wonder if the fancy front names (Dudley, Piers, and some of Dudley's other friends that I don't remember) (and saying that 'Harry' is a vulgar, common name) is part of a pattern of lower-middle-class /upper-working-class people who try to pass as upper-middle-class and get it pathetically wrong? (I mean, a pattern which is so well-known in Britain that JKR could get a laugh just by hinting at it.) Which leads me to wonder if Cedric's name had a similar cause, as his father showed a mixture of vulgarity and vanity, altho' not an attempt to pass as a social class he isn't. For that matter, had Petunia changed her own name for those snobbish reasons? > And where was the snake from? Native to Brazil, born in captivity. It came from Nick Lord's Claymation of the zoo animals whose words were improvised by humans in hospitals, jails, nursing homes... > > Aunt Marge's dog chased Harry up a tree. What was the dog's > name? (and why did he do nothing during the night?) Ripper? I remember her poor abused boyfriend's name, Colonel Fubster, but not the dog's. He did nothing in the night because he was passed on drunk on Aunt Marge's left-over port wine? > > What is Uncle Vernon's drill making company called? Grunnings > > What is the tavern that leads into Dragon Alley called? The Leaky Cauldron Isn't that too easy for your quiz? > > What was the name of the wizard who bowed to Harry in the street > before Harry knew he was a wizard? Dedalus Diggle. > > Who was the prime suspect for setting off fireworks upon the demise > of Lord Voldemort? Was that also Dedalus Diggle? I can't remember the name, only McGonagall saying it and 'he never had much sense." > > There was a substitute teacher for Professor Hagrid while he was > reeling under the attacks of Rita Skeeter? Name? And what did the > class learn about? Professor Gubbly-Plank. She was a witch with crewcut white hair, and a mildly drill-sergeant way of speaking, which immediately suggested to me that she is a political lesbian, and her lesson on unicorns which began by telling the girls to come forward and the boys to hang back seemed to fit in, but nothing else went in that direction. As I was reading GoF the first time, this claimed my attention as a discrepancy: JKR gave the sub a name and appearance that, in what I have become accustomed to in JKR's universe, indicates a comical character, but no comedy, she just did her job.e > > Dumbledore likes to listen to chamber music in his spare time and > what else (according to the card)? OW! OW! OW! You got me there! > > What are Bill Weasley's boots made from? Dragon hide. Isn't that another too easy one? From flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 19:27:05 2001 From: flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com (Michelle M.) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:27:05 -0000 Subject: Do vampires bleed? In-Reply-To: <3A648E3F.DBBAED3C@texas.net> Message-ID: <9427a9+gllh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9379 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: The Anne Rice vampires do. They slit themselves open or allow themselves to be bitten to share blood in creation of other vampires, or heal each other. > I just thought of this. I'm not up on the many, many versions of > vampires out there, but if Snape were a vampire, would Fluffy have been > able to wound him like that? Do vampires bleed? Or that much? > > --Amanda From catlady at wicca.net Tue Jan 16 19:36:14 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:36:14 -0000 Subject: Do vampires bleed? In-Reply-To: <011301c07fed$983a2ce0$712a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <9427re+b5pf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9380 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > Snape's tense relationship with Lupin.... hmm, they are both Dark > Creatures, so they should rather like each other, shouldn't they? > And *if* he was a Vampire, then he wouldn't have to be afraid, > being bitten by Lupin wouldn't have done a thing for him. > Or did you ever hear of a Vampire-Werewolf? In CALL OF THE WILD (ffnet, Wolfie Twins) werewolves and vampires hate each other. They give metaphysical reasons about werewolves, being both animal and lunar, are attuned to nature's cycles of life and death, while vampires have removed themselves from that cycle. Also, a vampire who tastes werewolf blood goes very painfully incurably insane, screams in agony day and night until hiser fellow vampires stake himer as a mercy killing. And vampires (other than Lamia, presumably) smell like carrion to werewolves (who apparently do not share domestic dogs' fondness for eating or rolling in carrion). > > And I'm sure Remus never tried to eat him, he has better taste, > even when having a wolfish-phase. If Snape is human, then Moony would try to bite, mangle, and devour him when in wolfy phase: it is the human smell that sends the werewolf into an uncontrollble obsessive-compulsive plus emotional rage + hunger + craving to destroy... In my universe, anyway. > Dinah > YM: bludger_witch I thought you were a Snape fan! What do you mean, eating him *disclaimer* would be bad taste! From joym999 at aol.com Tue Jan 16 19:39:11 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:39:11 -0000 Subject: more trivia Message-ID: <94280v+abst@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9381 Here are some hard trivia questions, all from SS/PS, in other words they all refer to Harrys FIRST YEAR at Hogwarts. Answers will be posted in a few days, if you dont all get them all immediately. 1. On what day of the week are James and Lily Potter killed? 2. Which animal at the zoo does Harry think looks just like his cousin Dudley, except that it's not blonde? 3. What is Hagrid's OFFICIAL title at Hogwarts? 4. How much does Harry pay the owl who delivers Hagrid's newspaper? 5. In what vault at the Wizard Bank does Hagrid pick up a small package wrapped in brown paper? 6. Who was the last student to be sorted by the Sorting Hat and what house did she or he go to? 7. What is a bezoar and what properties does it have? 8. What year did Ollivander's open? 9. What book does Snape take away from Harry, claiming that library books are not allowed out of the castle? 10. How many centaurs does Harry meet in the Forbidden Forest and what are their names? 11. In the chamber with the flying keys, what color was the one that fit the door? 12. What was the final exam for Charms class? --Joywitch From sharon at sharonandjake.com Tue Jan 16 19:38:15 2001 From: sharon at sharonandjake.com (Sharon Lee Baker) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:38:15 -0000 Subject: Who is Harry Potter? (long) In-Reply-To: <941a9l+nrmu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9427v7+36bu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9382 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > I have been thinking a lot about the question of who or what Harry > really is. Why is he so important that Voldemort wanted to kill him > when he was only 15 months old? > What do you think? > > Amy Z I don't think Voldemort trying to kill Harry so young necessarily means Harry is special or implies some kind of special prophecy. If I were an evil wizard, I would want to destroy the progeny of two of my strongest adversaries. I got the impression from the books that James and Lily were both very strong wizards. Therefore, any offspring they had could be considered a threat by Voldemort. In fact, any strong wizard, whether good or bad is a threat to Voldemort. He does not want to share power in any way. Even if Harry grew up to be a bad wizard, he is a threst to Voldemort's power. It's best to just get the boy out of the way from the beginning rather than waiting until he was trained. In the "current day" of the books Voldemort is still trying to destroy Harry before he is fully trained because it is always preferable to nullify an enemy when he is weak. My current theory is that Harry is special. He is especially powerful. Just like Voldemort is. Harry is not especially good or fated to do anything in paticular. He just represents too much of a risk for Voldemort to ignore. Especially after his first disasterous attempt to destroy Harry. Well, there's my two cents. Sharon L B New to the list From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Jan 16 19:52:05 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:52:05 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel Message-ID: <9428p5+3utd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9383 GOF seems to have many of the elements of a mystery novel, but in my opinion it is somewhat flawed as I'll explain below. First, the mystery novel elements (as I see them) are: - a crime and a victim (in this case, HP is the obvious victim, and the anticipated crime, whatever it turns out to be, will be very nasty. ) - an unfolding of information that allows the reader to gather facts about the crime - red herrings along the way (Karkaroff, Bagman, Snape (the perennial red herring), Moody, Krum...) - the climax, relevation, and explanation Unfortunately, the information provided by the author of GOF is not nearly enough for an intelligent reader to figure out "whodoneit." My own response when Moody admits to being the Bad Guy, was mild disappointment because there was so little evidence given along the way to implicate him. A good mystery would have the reader saying, "of course it was Moody!" I'm curious if anyone else has looked at GOF in this way. I'd be particularly interested in comments from folks who have taken a course in mystery writing, or who have written mysteries themselves. -Jim Flanagan From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Tue Jan 16 19:52:30 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:52:30 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Do vampires bleed? References: <9427re+b5pf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <018701c07ff5$e203f880$712a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9384 > I thought you were a Snape fan! What do you mean, eating him > *disclaimer* would be bad taste! Eeep. It's not Severus per se, it's more the hair and the smell from all the potion brewing. I like my Snape cleaned up a bit ;-) ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch 'Witches just aren't like that,' said Magrat. 'We live in harmony with the great cycles of Nature, and do no harm to anyone, and it's wicked of them to say we don't. We ought to fill their bones with hot lead.' -- (Terry Pratchett, Wyrd Sisters) From msl at fc.net Tue Jan 16 19:58:37 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long, Jr.) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:58:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: US vs. UK versions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9385 Please forgive me if this is a subject that's been done to death, but it takes an awfully long time to slog through the archives.... To any who have read both the British and American editions of the HP books, how different are they? I've just raced through the US versions of all 4 books and loved them, but something feels like it's missing, some idiomatic spark...I'm not sure how to explain, except for pointing out the obvious and ludicrous substitution of "Sorcerer's Stone" for "Philosopher's Stone." [I can see Scholastic's vice-president of marketing talking to his editors. "Look, you *have* to change the title. 'Philosopher' sounds too academic; Americans will flee like lemmings if they see it in the title of a children's book." "But it's been called the 'philosopher's stone' since the bloody Middle Ages! The Renaissance, at least." "American's don't care about the Middle Ages or the Renaissance, you prat! If it can't be put on a McNugget Happy Meal, get rid of it!" Sigh.] Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering the British editions from Amazon.co.uk. Would that be worthwhile, in anybody's opinion? Marvin Long Austin, Texas From vmclure at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 20:04:12 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:04:12 -0000 Subject: Recommending HPforGrownups In-Reply-To: <940jrn+jiim@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9429fs+6gcv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9386 > > > I hope no one minds terribly that I recommended this club to the > > people in my "Teaching HP" class on B&Nuni's page. It's a course > > using the Schafer book. Actually, this is how I found out about the group.> > > > One thing that I thought seemed silly was the suggestion that Harry > > is still able to learn magic from his parents through the Ministry > > of magic (MOM) and Defence Against the Dark Arts (DADA). > > Is this for real? I don't mean to sound rude but I can't see any > > merit in it. Will someone explain? > > No one can explain, except perhaps Elizabeth Schafer (and I doubt > that she can). Actually, my favorite "howler" from Liz's book is the > following (p. 66): "Pettigrew's missing finger symbolizes his > inabilty to make his point effectively." > All three of these points are typical of what I see in bad literary criticism. Some critics (and, btw, not all) try to read so much into things that they get way out of hand. They refuse to believe that sometimes "a cigar is just a cigar." They attempt to make their reputations and their points by ostensibly "delving deeply" into varous topics. Sadly, many believe they are brilliant scholars who have found things no one else ever would have. Well, this is probably true--no one else would have found these things out because they weren't there to find in the first place. I haven't read Schafer--I skimmed a copy at the book store and saw enough babble to turn me off. What is distressing is that this got published and that there are people who will take her information as gospel and teach HP this way. Sigh. On another note--re my time turner post about Harry and Hermione changing things--yeah, I flubbed that one. Chalk it up to not enough coffee! ;-) Vic who really should be getting class work done. > -Jim Flanagan From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Tue Jan 16 20:10:18 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:10:18 -0000 Subject: Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) In-Reply-To: <9417gp+gav2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9429ra+e8tu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9387 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Another plot convolution: no matter how confunded, the cup > doesn't HAVE to choose Harry, but Voldemort's plan relies on it. > This seems like a weak plot point. The scenario was that Harry was entered as the champion for a phantom fourth school (here is were the confundus charm came in, to confuse the cup into forgetting that there were only 3 schools in the tournament). As Harry would be the only representative of this school he would have to be chosen. I would imagine that the whole triwizard set-up, besides making a thoroughly exciting read, was a method for Voldemort to prove his superiority over Dumbledore, Fudge and the rest of the good guys by snatching Harry from right in front of them while they were watching. Dai From vmclure at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 20:20:58 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:20:58 -0000 Subject: Who is Harry Potter? (long) In-Reply-To: <941qt5+tvdk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942afa+52ap@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9388 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > > What does it *mean,* *thematically,* if Harry is > somehow, from birth, the fated, anointed Conqueror of Voldemort (or > even Evil > > Itself)? What does it mean, thematically, if his importance stems > > from something different than that, something not so much inherent > in his genes or background but emerging in the kind of person he is > > becoming? > > >I prefer whatever is > > extraordinary about him to emerge from his character, which we know > is > > imperfect and evolving, just like everyone's. Yes, he's > > extraordinarily brave, etc., but not supernaturally so--his > qualities > > aren't beyond the reach of any of the rest of us. > > > I think I'm backed up by Dumbledore here. His pet peeve is "purity > of > > blood" and, by extension (and explicitly at the end of CoS), the > idea > > that we are fated by our birth to be one thing or another. *****"It > is > our > > choices, rather than our abilities, that make us who we are." ***** > > ------------------------ > I don't know how it feels for everyone else, but to me, this is > the major theme of the books. I think JKR draws parallels between > Harry and Voldemort and shows their great similarities specifically to > point out that it's their different decisions that set them apart, and > not their predetermined goodness or badness. I think we're given the > same sorts of parallels with Neville and Peter. Harry himself draws > this comparison, and McGonagal seems to react to the two of them > similarly, as well. She mentions in the 3 Broomsticks her regret at > having been particularly harsh with Pettigrew, and in the same book > tears Neville apart over the Gryffindor passwords, imposing > punishments that were to last throughout the rest of the term. I > think we're going to see Neville make vastly different decisions from > those of Pettigrew. To me this says that, great (Harry/Voldemort) or > small (Peter/Neville), we all have to choose who and what we will > become. > > ------------------ And, in CoS (I think--I don't have the books in front of me), Dumbledore tells Harry something along the lines of "it's our choices that make us who we are, not our talents"--anyway, someone find the exact quote. This is one of those lines that jumped out at me and it seems to hold for more that just the two pairings Kimberly pointed out. Hagrid makes a choice not to be horribly embittered by being expelled and by the fact that he is half giant, for example. So much of all of the books is about making conscious choices about actions and the consequences of those choices. Just my 2 cents. Vic From vmclure at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 20:29:40 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:29:40 -0000 Subject: Chapter 26 - The Second Task In-Reply-To: <00ca01c07fe4$2b096180$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <942avk+7ret@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9389 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy" wrote: > 4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? > > > In GoF, the relationship between Hermione and Krum came across as Krum being the first boy who really paid attention to her. I think she probably would go visit him over the summer and if he came back to Hogwarts (hmm, dating a teacher, I wonder if there are rules against that in the wizarding world) they may date for a bit, but I think it would dissolve into a friendship. Their relationship may just end up being the catalyst needed to prod Hermione into a relationship with one of her *other* friends (and I'm stopping there). > > Amy > > Add to that the fact that Krum treats her like a girl. She, Ron, and Harry have had, to this point, rather a gender neutral relationship. It has been based on saving Hermione from a giant troll and the whatever intangible things that make people friends. And, I agree Amy, this might prod her into something different with Harry or Ron. Also, the guys are now seeing her through Krum's eyes to a certain extent. Should make things interesting. vic > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mschub at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 20:31:14 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (mschub at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:31:14 -0000 Subject: Where JKR really stole her ideas from In-Reply-To: <9416im+jq01@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942b2i+10c8b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9390 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > I don't think there's anything about a hood or a kiss in HDM--which > book do you think it's in? Specters essentially do the same thing as > a Dementor's Kiss, namely they devour souls and leave the person a > living but empty, despair-filled shell. But I don't recall the term > "kiss" or any description of Specters other than their being > ghostlike. I could be way wrong here, and please forgive me if I am, I haven't read The Subtle Knife in a few months. The scene I was thinking of is in Subtle Knife, where Lee Scoresby has the "out of body experience" where he is taken to the inside of the zepplin while Stanislaus Grumman is meditating on protecting them during the night (the scene when he strikes the one zepplin with lightening, and sends the birds to attack the other...). Scoresby is taken to the inside of the canopy of one of the remaining zepplins, and witnesses a Specter attacking the pilot. I had the distinct impression that it was referred to as a kiss, or at the very least that it "lowered its mouth to the pilots face" or something along those lines. Am I wrong? On the hood part, you're right, I'm not sure what I was thinking. When I gave it a second thought, you're definately right, they aren't ever (that I can remember) described as anything other than vaguely ghostlike. My oops on that one. -Mike From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Tue Jan 16 20:35:12 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:35:12 -0000 Subject: US vs. UK versions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <942ba0+u3nc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9391 I've read both versions of PS/SS. There are some minor spelling and grammatical differences, but nothing terribly significant. For example, where the UK version might say "Slitherin are on the offensive," the US version says "The Slitherins are on the offensive." I don't think that there was a single Britishism that I didn't understand in PS (unlike Narnia, where there were a couple of words or expressions that I couldn't figure out at all). Far worse was the French translation, which left out a lot of interesting bits, such as the KwikSpell brochure, which I thought was hilarious. Maybe the French don't have junk advertising like we do in English-speaking countries. At any rate, I recommend Amazon.co.uk - they were fast and my credit card went through without a hitch. The UK paperbacks are quite inexpensive. > Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering the British editions from Amazon.co.uk. > Would that be worthwhile, in anybody's opinion? > > Marvin Long > Austin, Texas From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Jan 16 20:39:47 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:39:47 -0500 Subject: Harry's abilities Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9392 kimberley sez: But another question that would have to be answered along with this is: Why, if Harry isn't inherently special, or different, or whatever, was Voldemort not only unable to kill him, but unable to survive trying without loosing everything? I honestly think it was nothing more than Lily's choice to die protecting Harry that saved him. I don't think there was some special secret charm performed, some special power of Harry's, or any other big mystery. I think a sacrificial love like that is, like Amy quoted Riddle as saying, a powerful countercurse, and much, much more, and I think that alone at least *should* have been enough to destroy Voldemort the way it did. At least that's my theory. I maintain (and have always done so) that the above cannot possibly be true. It cannot have been Lily's sacrifice that saved Harry from Voldemort, at least not by itself. Voldemort apparently killed many people. Men, women, children, various non-human magical creatures. And in all those murders, no one ever died trying to save someone else before Lily? I don't buy it. No one else seems to have survived V's rage because Person X died to save them. There must have been something else about Harry that saved his life. His mother's death couldn't have protected him completely, at least I don't think it could have. But then I have my own theories (which I suspect prompted this discussion :-) that I won't go into here. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "The Cell" Discman's spinning: "Bad Hair Day" Weird Al Yankovic Nighttable: "The Lost Continent" by Bill Bryson *************************************************** From vmclure at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 20:40:59 2001 From: vmclure at hotmail.com (Victoria McLure) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:40:59 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel In-Reply-To: <9428p5+3utd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942bkr+sfv1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9393 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Unfortunately, the information provided by the author of GOF is not > nearly enough for an intelligent reader to figure out "whodoneit." > My own response when Moody admits to being the Bad Guy, was mild > disappointment because there was so little evidence given along the > way to implicate him. A good mystery would have the reader > saying, "of course it was Moody!" > > I'm curious if anyone else has looked at GOF in this way. I'd be > particularly interested in comments from folks who have taken a > course in mystery writing, or who have written mysteries themselves. > > -Jim Flanagan In this sense, JKR does violate the "fair play" that is required (more or less) in crime fiction. This idea was developed fully in the so-called Golden Age of crime fiction--1930's and '40's. However, the information can be well hidden and subtle. Agatha Christie was criticized loudly for making the criminal in "The Murder of Roger Ackroyd" the narrator. Her reply was that the reader must consider all characters suspects and that all of the information pointed towards him. I, too, was a little disappointed in the revelations about Moody. Is it possible that JKR wrote herself into a corner and had to fall back on this to make things work? OTOH, we do have some clues that something is not right, especially in terms of Winky and her behavior. However, I agree, there isn't enough info. to point directly to Moody. Vic From mschub at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 20:46:29 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (mschub at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:46:29 -0000 Subject: Who is Harry Potter? (long) In-Reply-To: <941a9l+nrmu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942bv5+ettv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9394 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > I think I'm backed up by Dumbledore here. His pet peeve is "purity of > blood" and, by extension (and explicitly at the end of CoS), the idea > that we are fated by our birth to be one thing or another. "It is our > choices, rather than our abilities, that make us who we are." (quotes > are approximate). Someone suggested once that "only a true Gryffindor > could have taken GG's sword from the hat" might mean that Harry is a > descendant of GG. Maybe, but I'm hoping not. Dumbledore has just > gotten through telling him that the reason the Hat didn't put him in > Slytherin was that he chose not to be in Slytherin. AD repeats this > theme to Fudge in GoF, "The Parting of the Ways," when he points out > that Crouch was as pureblooded as a wizard could be, and look what he > chose to make of his life. No one is born to be good or evil. This is COMPLETELY unrelated, but I thought I should add it anyway. It's one of my favorite quotes ever, and I felt it kinda applied to what you were saying about Dumbledore. "Men at sometime, are Masters of their Fates. The fault (deere Brutus) is not in our Starres, But in our Selves, that we are underlings." - Cassius, Julius Caesar, Act I, scene ii, l. 147-149 (spelling, punctuation, line notation from FF) I know that citation is kinda confusing, but it's the best I could do (I've always hated citing Shakespeare). From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Jan 16 20:49:07 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:49:07 -0000 Subject: US vs. UK versions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <942c43+n15k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9395 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long, Jr." wrote: .. > > To any who have read both the British and American editions of the HP > books, how different are they? IMHO, the differences aren't drastic, but are noticeable to this close reader. Dumbledore is said to "do his nut" instead of "go ballistic", for example. 'Scarpered' instead of 'scampered' "Minister for Magic" instead of "Minister of Magic". > > Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering the British editions from Amazon.co.uk. > Would that be worthwhile, in anybody's opinion? It cost around $70.00 for the hardcover boxed set inc. shipping. I got them for Xmas and was delighted. I guess it all depends on your personal financial situation. I will definitely order the Britspeak edition of book 5, and, assuming my involvement with this group continues, I will have to get the American version too, since that is what is most often sited here. Pippin From smholz at paonline.com Tue Jan 16 20:59:59 2001 From: smholz at paonline.com (steven.holzman) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:59:59 -0500 Subject: What is a shipper? Message-ID: <200101161559.AA524026844@paonline.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9396 I'm new to the list (I joined after seeing the article on CNN.com) and have been enjoying the information/observations/opinions on the HP books. However, I must know - what is a shipper? I hope this isn't the hundredth time for this question, but I'm probably not the only one wondering if there are other new folks on the list. Thanks! Steve Holzman smholz at paonline.com From cassandraclaire at mail.com Tue Jan 16 21:12:31 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:12:31 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <942dfv+sfim@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9397 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, summers.65 at o... wrote: > > kimberley sez: > I honestly think it was nothing more than Lily's choice to die > protecting Harry that saved him. I don't think there was some special secret charm performed, some special power of Harry's, or any other big mystery. I think a sacrificial love like that is, like Amy quoted Riddle as saying, a powerful countercurse, and much, much more, and I think that alone at least *should* have been enough to destroy Voldemort the way it did. At least that's my theory. > > Lori: I maintain (and have always done so) that the above cannot possibly be true. It cannot have been Lily's sacrifice that saved Harry from Voldemort, at least not by itself." > > Must side somewhat with Lori here (big surprise to everyone.) Harry as much as says to Voldemort (well, Tom Riddle) in Book 2 that he * knows * that his mother's sacrifice is not what destroyed the Dark Lord. It's always seemed to me that we're looking at two different things here : Harry's mother's love might have been enough to save Harry's life, and maybe that might have happened before with people Voldemort was trying to kill, but it would NOT be enough to destroy Voldemort in response. That has to have been (IMHO) something particular having to do with Harry, although I am not going to venture a guess as to what. CoS page 233: "No one knows why you lost your powers when you attacked me," said Harry abruptly. "I don't know myself. But I know why you couldn't kill me -- because my mother died to save me." Cassie hoping this makes sense From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 21:17:31 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:17:31 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <942dpb+uvvp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9398 Lori wrote: > It cannot have been Lily's sacrifice that saved Harry from Voldemort, at > least not by itself. > > Voldemort apparently killed many people. Men, women, children, various > non-human magical creatures. And in all those murders, no one ever died > trying to save someone else before Lily? I don't buy it. No one else > seems to have survived V's rage because Person X died to save them. > Hi Lori! I agree this is a pretty compelling argument. Just to pick a nit, however: as the story stands right now, Lily didn't only die trying to save Harry, she literally said "Kill me instead." Maybe that's the difference. Or maybe you'll prove right plotwise. But anyway, as I said, never mind the plot. The plot might require that Harry end up being born- to-save-the-world, but how do you feel about what this says about the world? I don't like it nearly as much as the thought that he was just a greatly loved child who has since shown remarkable courage and integrity. I find Harry's humanness most interesting--one of the great delights of the books in fact is the way this odd wizarding world is so thoroughly human--and he starts to lose interest for me if he is too much the Other. And, as I wrote to start off, JKR's beliefs (put in AD's voice so often) seem to me to lead in another direction. One can believe BOTH in Harry's inherent uniqueness AND in free will, the importance of our moral choices, etc., but I think there's some tension there. I'm really enjoying all the responses to my wonderings. Thanks, all. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 21:25:29 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:25:29 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel In-Reply-To: <942bkr+sfv1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942e89+7801@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9399 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Victoria McLure" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the information provided by the author of GOF is not > > nearly enough for an intelligent reader to figure out "whodoneit." > > My own response when Moody admits to being the Bad Guy, was mild > > disappointment because there was so little evidence given along the > > way to implicate him. A good mystery would have the reader > > saying, "of course it was Moody!" I love mysteries but am not much of a whodunnit-figure-outer. I just read along blissfully and am always surprised--even when I pick the right criminal I'm always clueless about motive or means. So, bearing that in mind-- I think GoF works pretty well as a mystery. We aren't privy to all the clues, but we do see a lot of them if we're sharp enough, and Crouch spells them out at the end: Who told Harry how to get past the dragons? etc. (I mean, I suspected Bagman b/c he was helping Harry, didn't you? So why not suspect Moody too after his obvious favoritism?) And we all know about Polyjuice Potion--it's not like she springs that little device on us out of nowhere. BTW, spoilers re: HP are par for the course, but spoilers re: Agatha Christie are out of bounds! Next thing you know people will be giving away the end of The Mousetrap! One critic once said that Agatha Christie appeared to have made a list of all the rules about who can and cannot be the criminal in mysteries and systematically violated them all. I agree and although I don't have a very high opinion of her as a writer (lousy characterization, e.g.) she was the best plotter I've ever read. I don't think any plot point she wrote was unfair play. Amy Z From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 22:23:35 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:23:35 -0600 Subject: Fw: FREE Harry Potter Poster! Message-ID: <00a001c0800a$fcd63960$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9400 I'm placing this on list--thought it might catch folks eyes???Grins. ______________________________________________ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grolier Books" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 2:10 PM Subject: FREE Harry Potter Poster! > Dear Denise Rohleder, > > Save 40% on the complete Harry Potter set, PLUS Get a FREE Harry > Potter Poster with your purchase! > http://new.grolier.com/cgi-bin9/flo?y=eFBk0BQIsc0Bn10fAtJ > > Now that we're part of the Scholastic family, home to Harry Potter - > we've magicked the enchanting best-sellers of author J.K. Rowling to > appear at Grolier.com. > > Go to Grolier.com today, and the exclusive Harry Potter 4 Box Set can > be yours at a very special price - an incredible 40% off the > publisher's list. Along with a FREE Harry Potter Poster! > > This exclusive hardcover collection contains the first four, > spellbinding books with a custom-designed slipcase about the world's > most famous student at the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. > > > Don't miss out on the phenomenal stories that started the whole world > talking about Quidditch, house-elves, Lord Voldement and more. > > ********************************************************************** > When you order, we'll also give you the opportunity to preview related > items to supplement your Harry Potter 4 Box Set. Stop by today! > http://new.grolier.com/cgi-bin9/flo?y=eFBk0BQIsc0Bn10fAtJ > ********************************************************************** > > Sincerely, > Gloria Bradley > Manager, grolier.com > > If you feel you have received this message in error or you wish to be > removed from the list, you can unsubscribe by going to: > mailto:unsubscribe_HarryPotter at new.grolier.com > > > HURRY! Get your FREE Harry Potter Poster with your purchase! > http://new.grolier.com/cgi-bin9/flo?y=eFBk0BQIsc0Bn10fAtJ From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 22:01:48 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:01:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Do vampires bleed? References: <3A648E3F.DBBAED3C@texas.net> Message-ID: <009e01c0800a$fa1e6c60$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9401 Grins... This is up my field... In the gameworld of VtM, vampires can and do bleed, but the wounding depends on the degree of damage (similar to the degree of burn)--the more points taken, the more severe the damage. Vampires heal very quickly however, and if Snape had taken damage, 24 hours later it wouldn't be as noticeable. So, if he is a vampire, Fluffy must've hurt him "REALLLLLLLLLLL BADDDDDD"! ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 12:09 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Do vampires bleed? I just thought of this. I'm not up on the many, many versions of vampires out there, but if Snape were a vampire, would Fluffy have been able to wound him like that? Do vampires bleed? Or that much? --Amanda eGroups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Tue Jan 16 21:41:05 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:41:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What is a shipper? References: <200101161559.AA524026844@paonline.com> Message-ID: <007001c08005$093a9580$7d58d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9402 ----- Original Message ----- From: "steven.holzman" > I'm new to the list (I joined after seeing the article on CNN.com) and have been enjoying the information/observations/opinions on the HP books. > > However, I must know - what is a shipper? > Shipper...short form of relationshipper meaning you are in favor of a particular relationship.. ie H/H shipper wants to see Harry and Hermione together R/H shipper wants to see Ron and Hermione together D/G shipper wants to see Draco and Ginny together etc in any and every combination you can dream of carole From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 16 21:26:31 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:26:31 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What is a shipper? References: <200101161559.AA524026844@paonline.com> Message-ID: <002101c08002$ff3aafe0$843470c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9403 Steve Holzman said "I'm new to the list (I joined after seeing the article on CNN.com) and have been enjoying the information/observations/opinions on the HP books. However, I must know - what is a shipper? I hope this isn't the hundredth time for this question, but I'm probably not the only one wondering if there are other new folks on the list." No, it's only the 99th time! It means "relationshipper", i.e. a person who favours particular romantic pairings of characters in the books or in the thousands of fanfictions (fanfic) that have sprung up. Before you ask (which you probably weren't going to) 'slash' is the term for same sex pairings (as in slash fic). Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From ara_kel at yahoo.com Tue Jan 16 22:11:52 2001 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 14:11:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: My Shameless Plug Message-ID: <20010116221152.12502.qmail@web1501.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9404 I've just posted "Someone Special," my fanfic about Angelina and Fred on ff.n. It's at http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=178969 A million thanks to Ebony and Jim for beta reading! I appreciate the help. Sarah ===== "How about a nice *book*?" Ron asked innocently. -- Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 10:38:24 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 11:38:24 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What is a shipper? References: <200101161559.AA524026844@paonline.com> Message-ID: <005901c08071$a0fd79c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9405 Welcome to the club Steve! A shipper is a person with one or more twisted hormonal obsessions concerning any given combination of those sweet children in HP. There are, for instance, Ron - Hermione shippers, Hermione - Harry shippers, Ron - Harry shippers, Snape - Draco shippers, even Sirius - Ginny shippers. A word to the wise: never mess with shippers. Most of them are armed (and fingered, too) and arguing with any of them could be dangerous to your sanity. The word comes from relation-"ship" and is common in the weird, wild world of fanfiction, where horribly addicted fiction junkies add their own endings, continuations, sequels, prequels, variant readings, textual emendations, poems, songs and dance routines to their favorite stories. Like most addictions, it starts with relatively harmless stuff--joining this club, for instance. After a while, you get curious and take a surreptitious squint at one of the fanfics. It's kind of fun. You giggle a lot. You've taken your first hit. Within a few weeks you're living in a surreal cloud of tripped out acronyms like PoU, DD, DS, ASA, and TSTNE. People who fail to get professional therapy often end up having to deal up fiction of their own to support their habits. But it's so much fun ... Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." Note: "Aberforth's Goat" is usually a human being. In fact, a mild-mannered anabaptist theologian with a wife, two children and a bad case of Harry Potter mania. From bkdelong at pobox.com Tue Jan 16 22:36:09 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:36:09 -0500 Subject: Harry Potter movie gets Gryffindor/Slytherin House Quidditch players Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010116173544.05780040@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9406 Hi all - I stumbled across new Harry Potter movie casting info while searching for something else and posted it at our site: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2001_01_14_archive.html#1997586 Here's the text. Check the above URL for details on who's who: "In the new "Harry Potter" film Joshua Herdman plays Goyle, Will Theakston plays Marcus Flint ? captain of the Quidiche (sic) team, Emily Dale plays Katie Bell and Scott Fearn plays Terence Higgin(sic). " -- B.K. DeLong bkdelong at pobox.com 617.877.3271 http://www.brain-stream.com http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org From nessareed at mindspring.com Tue Jan 16 22:35:25 2001 From: nessareed at mindspring.com (Vanessa Reed) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:35:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: <942dpb+uvvp@eGroups.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010116172726.02783400@127.0.0.1> No: HPFGUIDX 9407 At 09:17 PM 1/16/01 +0000, you wrote: >Lily didn't only die trying to save Harry, she literally said "Kill me >instead." Maybe >that's the difference. I should probably reread the books before jumping in, but here goes. This is an interesting quote because it indicates to me that the main target of Voldemort's attack was not Harry's parents (with Harry as an afterthought) but Harry himself. I have wondered if the Trelawny pediction that came true had to do with Harry and his defeating Voldemort as an infant. Vanessa From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 23:01:30 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:01:30 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel In-Reply-To: <942e89+7801@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942jsa+k28r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9408 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Victoria McLure" > wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" > wrote: > > > > > > > Unfortunately, the information provided by the author of GOF is > not > > > nearly enough for an intelligent reader to figure > out "whodoneit." > One critic once said that Agatha Christie appeared to have made a > list of all the rules about who can and cannot be the criminal in > mysteries and systematically violated them all. I agree and although > I don't have a very high opinion of her as a writer (lousy > characterization, e.g.) she was the best plotter I've ever read. I > don't think any plot point she wrote was unfair play. > I think I started a thread a long while back on this topic called "mystery parallels." You guys might want to go to the egroups site and search back. I think we concluded that only the first book really comes anywhere near to being a "fair play" novel, in the sense that it's possible to figure out logically (in a fairly certain way, not just plausibly) who the crook is. Charmian From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 16 23:15:29 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:15:29 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: <942dpb+uvvp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942kmh+th4d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9409 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Lori wrote: > > > It cannot have been Lily's sacrifice that saved Harry from > Voldemort, at > > least not by itself. > > > > Voldemort apparently killed many people. Men, women, children, > various > > non-human magical creatures. And in all those murders, no one ever > died > > trying to save someone else before Lily? I don't buy it. No one > else > > seems to have survived V's rage because Person X died to save them. > > If a sacrifice was needed to break Voldy's power (or to break the Avada Kedavra curse's power, which is older than Voldy), probably somebody would have done it before, so I agree with your logical point. As we have blathered on this group time and time again, Harry must have done something (and we're all nuts to find out what it is) to be on the Voldemort hit list as an infant. There does seem to be something partially destined about Harry. This logically doesn't work with the choice theme in the book, but a lot of books have this same underlying inconsistency. (Because if anybody theoretically can be like Harry and eventually save the world, why is there a need for Harry himself? Because he's the protagonist, and it's about him, of course.) I deal with it by seeing it metaphorically. This is probably also because the "chosen hero" plot is a very old one, from a time when people did believe widely in predestination and also had more rigid class structures. The "chosen hero" is often determined by his birthright, or by prophecy. (Although you could also say that this aspect really isn't about birth determining destiny, but a metaphor for something else, or supposed to hint to the reader that everyone is marked out for a worthy destiny, etc.) So when we add in the modern democratic emphasis on choice, there are inconsistencies (or at least that's where I see them coming from). But, my theories will probably fall apart when we find out why it is that Voldmort wanted to kill Harry, Dumbledore's motivations, and the exact way in which V is eventually defeated. Charmian From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Jan 16 23:30:29 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 16:30:29 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9410 Voldemort was not planning on killing Lily. WHY? He killed James, and then when Lily was shielding Harry, he said "Step aside, girl." Whatever reason Voldemort had for going after the Potters, it seems as if it had to do with James and Harry specifically. It's possible that Lily had perfected some way to transfer all her powers to Harry before she died. There's been great emphasis on Harry having "his mother's eyes" -- and we know from interviews that JKR is emphasizing this for an as-yet-unknown reason. This may be why baby Harry was able to deflect Voldemort's curse -- he had his own powers from the gene pool of Potter & Evans, plus a full transfer of all of Lily's developed powers at her death. Any 14-year-old boy who could outfight THE DARK LORD in face-to-face combat has got something pretty special going for him. He hasn't been in any serious rigorous training program -- his schooling at times seems rather haphazard and unremarkable, with a few exceptions such as Lupin's private tutoring. I'm inclined to believe that he was born with special talent, but that it needs to be developed. Lots of people are, but only with proper training does it become apparent. (For example, you may have been born with a brilliant aptitude for music, but if you're never exposed it in your formative years, it's not going to develop.) The training he is receiving, INCLUDING the horrible years with the Dursleys, is honing his skills well enough to overcome some serious attempts on his life by Lord V & company. I rather think that in Book 5, Harry's training will intensify. Since he is the main target of Lord V, I'm hoping that Dumbledore & company will devote some serious time to Harry, and not leave his education in the hands of less-than-competent teachers as it has been in the past. SML, ramblin' on and on... From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 16 23:28:16 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:28:16 -0000 Subject: What is a shipper? In-Reply-To: <005901c08071$a0fd79c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <942leg+ppks@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9411 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > Welcome to the club Steve! > > A shipper is a person with one or more twisted hormonal obsessions > concerning any given combination of those sweet children in HP. Hey! Some people's Ships are limited to the grown up characters! Like those who Ship for Sirius, Snape, Lupin etc. with various Original Characters (OC's), Mary Sue in her various guises, or in slashy ways. > Within a few weeks you're living in a surreal cloud of tripped out acronyms > like PoU, DD, DS, ASA, and TSTNE. People who fail to get professional > therapy often end up having to deal up fiction of their own to support their > habits. "Deal up fiction?" - Darling Mike - you've created a fictional persona of yourself as a *goat* - does that qualify? Also, someone wrote about the casting of "Terence Higgin" I think I speak for many of us when I squint my eyes, shake my head in a very Dave Barry-esque way and say, discomfortedly, "Who?" From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 16 23:44:26 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 15:44:26 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: GOF as Mystery Novel In-Reply-To: <942e89+7801@eGroups.com> References: <942bkr+sfv1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010116153952.00c55e00@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9412 At 09:25 PM 1/16/01 +0000, Amy wrote: >I think GoF works pretty well as a mystery. We aren't privy to all >the clues, but we do see a lot of them if we're sharp enough, and >Crouch spells them out at the end... I don't think most mysteries were meant to be figured out by the reader... Going back to A. Christie, who could ever figure out the elaborate solution to _Evil Under the Sun_? >BTW, spoilers re: HP are par for the course, but spoilers re: Agatha >Christie are out of bounds! Next thing you know people will be >giving away the end of The Mousetrap! Or _Murder on the Orient Express_. :) -- Dave "I love reading mysteries, but I can never figure them out." -- Lieutenent Columbo From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Jan 16 23:41:21 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:41:21 -0000 Subject: Recommendations In-Reply-To: <9404j9+87v0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942m71+m8gb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9413 Mike Schubert wrote: > Just wondering if anyone had any interesting recommendations. I'm > pretty well-read in children's lit, but I'm always on the lookout for > new stuff. Overall, I've never really been into the fantasy/sci-fi > thing, but I'm open to suggestions. If anyone has any favorite > series, please, let me know. > -Mike I like the "Redwall" Series by Brian Jacques. They're not what you would call sci-fi, but they're definitely fantasy. I don't know if you're in the US, but if you are, PBS bought the rights to the animated version of the first Redwall book and will show the program sometime in April (depending on the station). Brian Jacques was very pleased with the series. :-)Milz From lj2d30 at gateway.net Wed Jan 17 00:05:30 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:05:30 -0000 Subject: Harry's Out of Body Experience (was: ...Ron's prescience) In-Reply-To: <000001c07f1d$10697620$6bf808d5@levy> Message-ID: <942nka+mke3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9414 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Elad Levy" wrote: > when did anyone say that ron has a gift to see the future? where is it written? Hi! It's not written anywhere in the HP cannon that Ron has a gift for Divination, however several alert (should that be obsessed?) readers here have noted that several throw-away lines that Ron has tossed off half-jokingly have actually come to pass. For example, when he and Harry are in Divination in PoA, he predicts "a windfall, unexpected gold" and ij GoF Harry does come into unexpected gold - the Triwizard Tournament winnings. There have been other remarks, but I can't remember any. Given these little tidbits, a theory has arisen that Ron may have a gift as a seer. Trina, who wonders what her dream of flying snitches signifies. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 17 00:21:18 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffes MacGoo) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:21:18 -0000 Subject: Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) In-Reply-To: <9417gp+gav2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942ohu+fp5a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9415 Amy Z said: > Was anyone else strangely disappointed when Harry got in? yes, and no, as you say "it figures, nothing exciting happens around here without Harry being tied up in it." > > Another plot convolution: no matter how confunded, the cup > doesn't HAVE to choose Harry, but Voldemort's plan relies on it. > This seems like a weak plot point. I suppose that no magical object > would pass over The Boy Who Lived, but V wouldn't want to think that. The cup *had* to choose Harry because he was the only representive for the 4th school that Crouch jnr invented. As the only represeive he was the only canditate for champion. storm From jamhol at excite.ca Wed Jan 17 00:54:18 2001 From: jamhol at excite.ca (jamhol at excite.ca) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 00:54:18 -0000 Subject: Who's the wand expert of the group? Message-ID: <942qfq+q3va@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9416 Who should I speak with about the silent correction in HP4? I'm a reporter working on a story about it. From bkdelong at pobox.com Wed Jan 17 01:16:44 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 20:16:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Who's the wand expert of the group? In-Reply-To: <942qfq+q3va@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010116201539.05631b60@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9417 At 12:54 AM 01/17/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Who should I speak with about the silent correction in HP4? I'm a >reporter working on a story about it. Cool.....I knew that would draw up interest :) What publication is this for? What's yer byline? From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 13:33:02 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:33:02 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What is a shipper? References: <942leg+ppks@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009001c0808a$05e352c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9418 Heidi remonstrated, > Hey! Some people's Ships are limited to the grown up characters! Like > those who Ship for Sirius, Snape, Lupin etc. with various Original > Characters (OC's), Mary Sue in her various guises [...] Oh yeah, and then there are Mary Sues. I read a thread a while back that got me hopelessly confused about those. Was the consensus that Miss Sues are personal "inliterations" of a (female?) author? You know, some sort of quick & easy HP fanfic glossary wouldn't be amiss ... at least until the epiphany of our FAQ's. > "Deal up fiction?" - Darling Mike - you've created a fictional > persona of yourself as a *goat* - does that qualify? Certainly not! *Jo* created the goat; I just decided to be it. (OK, OK, I'm sorry ... but I just *had* to say that.) But speaking of fic-err-suppliers: I haven't yet read one of yours, and I've heard they're good. Would you mind sending along a URL? > Also, someone wrote about the casting of "Terence Higgin" > I think I speak for many of us when I squint my eyes, shake my head > in a very Dave Barry-esque way and say, discomfortedly, "Who?" Oh dear. I really *must* have got so Harry-obsessed that I've missed out on the rest of culture. Who is Dave Barry, and do you think I could learn how to shake my head like that, too? Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who doesn't *have* to pretend to be a goat. No problem. I can take it or leave it.) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Jan 17 01:39:36 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 01:39:36 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel, dead Weasley... In-Reply-To: <9428p5+3utd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <942t4o+515q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9419 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > GOF seems to have many of the elements of a mystery novel, but in my opinion it is somewhat flawed as I'll explain below. <> > Unfortunately, the information provided by the author of GOF is not > nearly enough for an intelligent reader to figure out "whodoneit." > My own response when Moody admits to being the Bad Guy, was mild > disappointment because there was so little evidence given along the > way to implicate him. A good mystery would have the reader > saying, "of course it was Moody!" <> > I'm curious if anyone else has looked at GOF in this way.<<<<<<<<< Jim, this is all very interesting. I've not read many mysteries, and am nearly always surprised at the revelation of the culprit. I mentioned back when the group was first discussing GoF that the Moody/Crouch Jr. revelation just absolutely did not work for me. With books 1-3, I remained enthralled to the very end. With GoF, when M/C is revealed, I completely lost my suspension of disbelief. This part took me right out of the book, and all I could think was "Wha-at?" with incredulity. Though I haven't found any plot- holes to make this impossible, it still feels so unconvincingly convoluted. I had not looked at GoF, or the rest of the books in general, as 'mysteries', though they certainly are, and I think you've made an excellent point. Perhaps your explanation is what I was feeling, but couldn't articulate. Well said. As an unrelated point, I've been meaning to mention this: There's a RUMOR put forth by a person who claims to know JKR that one member of the Weasley family will die... Kelley From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Jan 17 02:23:05 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:23:05 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What is a shipper? In-Reply-To: <005901c08071$a0fd79c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> References: <200101161559.AA524026844@paonline.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010116180815.00c65100@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9420 At 11:38 AM 1/17/01 +0100, Aberforth's Goat wrote: >A shipper is a person with one or more twisted hormonal obsessions... BTW, there is also a society of Oz shippers (Glinda/Wizard, Dorothy/Tommy Kwikstep, Ozma/Johnny Dooit, etc.), but as with MI6, the Powers that Be "Do Not Acknowledge That It Exists." (The Harry Potter community is much more an Open Democracy in that sense.) >... Sirius - Ginny shippers. Sirius and Ginny?? I've had ideas about Sirius/Hermione and wondered if I was perverted! (Are by there chance any Sirius/Hermione or Sirius/Ginny stories?) -- Dave From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Jan 17 02:28:15 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:28:15 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <942vvv+acl0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9421 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > Voldemort was not planning on killing Lily. WHY? He killed James, and then > when Lily was shielding Harry, he said "Step aside, girl." Whatever reason > Voldemort had for going after the Potters, it seems as if it had to do with > James and Harry specifically. A thought: could it be nothing more than Vold doesn't consider Lily much of a threat? That maybe Vold felt James was more capable of keeping him (V) from Harry, so yeah, kill him; but Lily is just this tearful mother. Arrogant Vold didn't think Lily could do him any harm, pose any threat, not possibly be any real obstacle to him in his goal of killing Harry. The whole 'No, not my baby--Step aside, girl' bit is very cliche, just makes for good drama. My suspicion is that it doesn't mean anything more than what it's been: The tragic Mother giving her life to protect her child, the Evil Villain(tm) using this info to torment the Brave Hero--by telling Harry that Lily didn't ~have~ to die, but she wouldn't let V have H, so that's why she died-- more angst for Harry - "My mum lost her life because of me..." Pathos, you know? For the record, I'm one of those who believe that Vold was ONLY after Harry, and this was ~probably~ due to Trelawney's first correct prediction... Kelley From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Jan 17 02:33:35 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:33:35 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry Potter movie gets Gryffindor/Slytherin House Quidditch players In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010116173544.05780040@brain-stream.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010116183048.035c7550@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9422 At 05:36 PM 1/16/01 -0500, B.K. DeLong wrote: >"In the new "Harry Potter" film Joshua Herdman plays Goyle, Will >Theakston plays Marcus Flint ? captain of the Quidiche (sic) team, Emily >Dale plays Katie Bell and Scott Fearn plays Terence Higgin(sic). " And a trophy to T.M. Riddell. This will all be in a film called "Harri Popper and the Saucer's Stoon". -- Dave From amy at pressroom.com Wed Jan 17 02:32:13 2001 From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:32:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 26 - The Second Task References: <93iti4+pmrn@eGroups.com> <007001c07c82$f2daeb80$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <019c01c07cbc$d17d0060$232c07d5@oemcomputer> <004901c07e02$2b4a5520$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <00db01c07d9d$743bfdc0$242d07d5@oemcomputer> <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <022a01c0802d$b3668d20$0200a8c0@pressroom.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9423 > 5. If you were an H/H Shipper, would you consider the fact that Harry went to > rescue Hermione before Cho as evidence that he likes her? How would you > interprit this if you were an R/H shipper? I'm an R/H shipper. I interpret this as Harry was trying to save his two best friends. Cho is just a crush and he doesn't know her very well. I still find it a little hard to believe that Hermione is the one thing Krum would miss the most. It just makes the plot more interesting with Harry not knowing who to rescue. Amy From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 02:49:53 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:49:53 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel, In-Reply-To: <942t4o+515q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94318h+rrv7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9424 Jim said- "A good mystery would have the reader saying, "of course it was Moody!" I'm curious if anyone else has looked at GOF in this way.<<<<<<<<< Kelley wrote: "This part took me right out of the book, and all I could think was "Wha-at?" with incredulity. Though I haven't found any plot- holes to make this impossible, it still feels so unconvincingly convoluted. I had not looked at GoF, or the rest of the books in general, as 'mysteries', though they certainly are, and I think you've made an excellent point. Perhaps your explanation is what I was feeling, but couldn't articulate. Well said. " Ok, I love mysteries. Some of the first books I can remember reading were "The Boxcar Children Mysteries". They were my first "chapter" books. Anyway. I've read everything from Mary Higgins Clark to Agatha Christie, and I've taken classes on mystery writing. There should always be some evidence. Something inconspicuous (sp?) but obvious. You're are 100% right in saving that the solution should be one you that makes you stop and thing "I shoulda known!" There was, IMO very litte in GoF that actually pointed to Crouch. On re-reading you can make certain inference but just reading it there isn't anything to let the reader know. I guess that GoF, whilst being the longest and darkest is IMHO the most weakly-plotted of all the Harry Potter books so far... Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 02:49:56 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:49:56 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel, In-Reply-To: <942t4o+515q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94318k+3lev@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9425 Jim said- "A good mystery would have the reader saying, "of course it was Moody!" I'm curious if anyone else has looked at GOF in this way.<<<<<<<<< Kelley wrote: "This part took me right out of the book, and all I could think was "Wha-at?" with incredulity. Though I haven't found any plot- holes to make this impossible, it still feels so unconvincingly convoluted. I had not looked at GoF, or the rest of the books in general, as 'mysteries', though they certainly are, and I think you've made an excellent point. Perhaps your explanation is what I was feeling, but couldn't articulate. Well said. " Ok, I love mysteries. Some of the first books I can remember reading were "The Boxcar Children Mysteries". They were my first "chapter" books. Anyway. I've read everything from Mary Higgins Clark to Agatha Christie, and I've taken classes on mystery writing. There should always be some evidence. Something inconspicuous (sp?) but obvious. You're 100% right in saving that the solution should be one you that makes you stop and thing "I shoulda known!" There was, IMO very litte in GoF that actually pointed to Crouch. On re-reading you can make certain inference but just reading it there isn't anything to let the reader know. I guess that GoF, whilst being the longest and darkest is IMHO the most weakly-plotted of all the Harry Potter books so far... Scott From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 17 02:47:04 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 21:47:04 -0500 Subject: ships of fanfic References: <942leg+ppks@eGroups.com> <009001c0808a$05e352c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A6507A8.54FB4CA7@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 9426 Aberforth's Goat (aka Mike) wrote: > Oh yeah, and then there are Mary Sues. I read a thread a while back that got > me hopelessly confused about those. Was the consensus that Miss Sues are > personal "inliterations" of a (female?) author? You know, some sort of quick > & easy HP fanfic glossary wouldn't be amiss ... at least until the epiphany > of our FAQ's. Would a statement that "we're working on it" be a panacea on this issue? didn't think so - but it's a true statement & we have a committment to Finish Up Soon. > But speaking of fic-err-suppliers: > I haven't yet read one of yours, and I've heard they're good. Would you mind > sending along a URL? Mmmm - thanks for the flattery - it'll get you this: http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory-authorProfile&userid=19541 (that's a link to my page on ff.net) > > Also, someone wrote about the casting of "Terence Higgin" > > I think I speak for many of us when I squint my eyes, shake my head > > in a very Dave Barry-esque way and say, discomfortedly, "Who?" > > Oh dear. I really *must* have got so Harry-obsessed that I've missed out on > the rest of culture. Who is Dave Barry, and do you think I could learn how > to shake my head like that, too? Dave Barry is the Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for our very own Miami Herald - you can find his columns at http://www.herald.com/davebarry/ and yes, he's written a little about HP, but I don't think you can find it up there. Maybe if you search his columns at http://www.washingtonpost.com? From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 02:55:20 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:55:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: US vs. UK versions Message-ID: <20010117025520.12513.qmail@web213.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9427 --- foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long, Jr." > wrote: > .. > > > > To any who have read both the British and American > editions of the HP > > books, how different are they? > > IMHO, the differences aren't drastic, but are > noticeable to this > close reader. Dumbledore is said to "do his nut" > instead of "go > ballistic", for example. 'Scarpered' instead of > 'scampered' "Minister > for Magic" instead of "Minister of Magic". > > > > > > Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering the British > editions from Amazon.co.uk. > > Would that be worthwhile, in anybody's opinion? > > It cost around $70.00 for the hardcover boxed set > inc. shipping. I got > them for Xmas and was delighted. I guess it all > depends on your > personal financial situation. I will definitely > order the Britspeak > edition of book 5, and, assuming my involvement with > this group > continues, I will have to get the American version > too, since that is > what is most often sited here. > Pippin > > You could also consider ordering the Canadian versions (same as the British - but maybe cheaper comparing our dollar to yours). Try www.Chapters.ca If their shipping costs to the US are outrageous, and you want to get the books there, email me (s_ings at yahoo.com) and I can pick them up for you and mail them (usually much cheaper than their shipping charges). Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 17 02:59:44 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 02:59:44 -0000 Subject: What is a shipper? In-Reply-To: <005901c08071$a0fd79c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <9431r0+1pda@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9428 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > Welcome to the club Steve! > > A shipper is a person with one or more twisted hormonal obsessions... LOL! My dear Goat--those adjectives are loaded! You give our new members the wrong impression of us. Sure, some of us skip about the fandom like overgrown fourteen year olds (ahem!). However, speculating on future relationships in the Harry Potter series is just like speculating on any other aspect of the plot. To some of the HP4GUers here (ahem!), ship debates are just as fun as discussing Wand Order Theories for the millionth time. >A word to the wise: never mess with shippers. Most of them are armed (and fingered, too) and arguing with any of them could be dangerous to your sanity. (Still chuckling) Excuse me? We are not dangerous! We are not insane! Of course, some of us have better taste in our ship preferences than others (ahem!), and at times our posts sound as if we'd have a lot in common with Lavender Brown and Parvati Patil. Let us have our fun! In everyday life we are for the most part rational, calm and levelheaded professional adults. Ahem. >Like most addictions, it starts with relatively harmless stuff-- joining this club, for instance. After a while, you get curious and take a surreptitious squint at one of the fanfics. It's kind of fun. You giggle a lot. You've taken your first hit. So now Lori, Cassie, Penny, Carole, Heidi, and all the rest of the fanfic writers are pushers? LOL! Well, then, give me my fix! > Within a few weeks you're living in a surreal cloud of tripped out acronyms like PoU, DD, DS, ASA, and TSTNE. People who fail to get professional therapy often end up having to deal up fiction of their own to support their habits. But it's so much fun ... That it is, my friend. Matchmaking *always* is great entertainment. Besides, giggling is good for the soul. :-) --Ebony AKA AngieJ (who actually managed to get through an entire post on pairings *without* mentioning her pet ship, and therefore expects a HP4GU Shipper Pax medal of some kind to be shipped... oops, *delivered* to her front door within the next 24 hours) From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 17 03:19:11 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 03:19:11 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore (gasp!) Cheats!!! (was: Chapter 26 - The Second Task) In-Reply-To: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <9432vf+h6nn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9430 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > Questions: > 1. Did Harry show moral fiber or was be being a prat? "Cheating's a traditional part of the Triwizard Tournament and always has been" Moody/Crouch tells Harry just before the First Task (Chap. 20). Mad-Eye Crouch goes on to say that "I've been telling Dumbledore from the start, he can be as high-minded as he likes, but you can bet old Karkaroff and Maxine won't be. They'll have told their champions everything they can. They want to win. They want to bet Dumbledore." RED HERRING ALERT!!! RED HERRING ALERT!!! The view being promulgated here is that the Bumblebee is either too high-minded and/or too na?ve to descend to the sort of sleazy underhanded tactics that are merely second nature to Karkaroff and Maxine. Yeah right! Not even Crouch Jr. could possibly outfox the Double-D, who can change shapes with Proteus and add colors to the chameleon for advantages. Obviously, Hogwarts, Durmstrang & Beauxbatons have fallen hook line and sinker for this "barmy old codger" image that Dumbledore so assiduously cultivates. But we the reader must not be deceived. Dumbledore clearly set up the Second Task to Harry's advantage. No less than three of the four merpeople's hostages were individuals extremely important to Harry, while the other three contestants had no meaningful ties to more than a single hostage. Dumbledore is someone who knows Harry forwards and backwards, and, if he was dedicated to a fair and objective contest, would have made sure that Hermione and Cho were declared ineligible. But, no ? the crafty old codger kept his mouth shut. And of course when it comes time to consult with the Merpeople, who on the scene just happened to speak Mermish? The predictable result: Harry loses some time and a few points because he wants to save three very important people to him (and he might as well save the little kid sister as long as he's at it), but gains extra points for moral fiber and integrity. Harry was not being thick. What person worthy of admiration would not risk all to save someone they loved? Dumbledore simply made sure that Harry had three times as much motivation as the other Triwizards Champions. - CMC From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 17 04:18:37 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:18:37 -0000 Subject: Where JKR really stole her ideas from/OT In-Reply-To: <93vnku+iudj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9436et+np5u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9431 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mschub at y... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > Bob Dylan: > > "It was known all around that Lily had Jim's ring." --"Lily, > > Rosemary, and the Jack of Hearts," from Blood on the Tracks > > Oh my goodness... I can do all the lyrics to Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts.. the hanging judge was sober - he hadn't had a drink....... however, we were doing a quick survey Who is Ho Chi Minh? Please email me off list and include how old you are..and PLEASE if you don't know, let me know I'll explain to all who are interested later.. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 17 04:32:09 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:32:09 -0000 Subject: OT prescience In-Reply-To: <004d01c07f1f$19caaac0$232b7bd5@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <943789+gjbe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9432 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > > > > Is there any member out there who does have an uncanny ability to > predict > > future events, or at least someone who has premonitions that have > turned out to be true, more often than not? How did you come to terms > with this > > ability? How does it affect your actions? Anyone brave enough to > admit to > > psychic powers? > Uh...yes, okay. I have a lot of precognitive ability (that's what I call it). I oftentimes have a gut sense about what's going to happen. It usually is the case. I sometimes can't tell if it's too close to me personally..but sometimes I can. If you ask me unexpectedly I can tell you if it's impacting on me. Sometimes, I have a gut sense, and then I get uptight and nervous and doubt it. Sometimes, it changes. I had a gut sense that our new Senator was going to lose the election, and then about 3 weeks prior to the election, I thought, Oh my gosh, she's going to win! The probabilities shifted for some reason. In early January, I had bad feelings about some serious problems that were going to occur -- I didn't know what, and I was very worried. My mother in law then went into the critical care unit (she is now out). My partner's paycheck was garnished for her student loans (their mistake; now fixed). My partner's employer gave her a new contract which basically said they would pay her what they wanted to when they wanted to (now much better after our attorney's intervention). Then, my son announced that he was going to turn me into a Lady Bug! (joke)I'm actually now much relieved and in better spirits, because the bad stuff has happened. In fact, I am quite euphoric. So, I do know that Harry's not going to die. I know this sounds very weird, but then you already knew I was weird city. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 17 04:46:43 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:46:43 -0000 Subject: Recommendations In-Reply-To: <941gau+mrqv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94383j+pqak@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9433 Anything by Robin McKinley -- the Blue Sword, the Hero and the Crown, her Robin Hood book, her beauty and the beast book, terrific Madeleine L'Engle -- her Ring of Endless Light is my favorite for older kids, the Time Trilogy for younger kids, I like everything but some more than others... Susan Cooper - I second that emotion.... C.S. Lewis - don't forget his space and time trilogy ..Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, That Hideous Strength.... the early Pern books, Dragon Song, Dragon Singer, Dragon Drums, White Dragon Katherine Kurtz..the Deryni Andre Norton's juveniles Robert Heinlein's juveniles....The Rolling Stones, Between Planets, Rocket Ship Galileo, Waldo and Magic, Inc. (this one is more adult), Citizen of the Galaxy, Tunnel in the Sky, The Star Beast, Starship Troopers Mercedes lackey -- the Arrows of the Queen series...good gay charactersin Magic's Pawn, Magic's Price, Magic's Promise..... Marion Zimmer Bradley's..the Heritage of Hastur, Shattered Chain From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 17 04:57:47 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:57:47 -0000 Subject: GOF as Mystery Novel In-Reply-To: <942bkr+sfv1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9438ob+uttn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9434 > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, the information provided by the author of GOF is not > > nearly enough for an intelligent reader to figure out "whodoneit." > > My own response when Moody admits to being the Bad Guy, was mild > > disappointment because there was so little evidence given along the > > way to implicate him. A good mystery would have the reader > > saying, "of course it was Moody!" In Chap 25 we learn that Barty Crouch is sneaking around Hogwarts - in Chap 28 we learn that Crouch the elder is as mad as a hatter ere he vanishes for good - in Chap 30 we learn that Crouch the Elder's same-named son was condemned to life imprisonment for supporting Voldemort. Probably too subtle for any first-time readers to pick up on (definitely too subtle for me), but it does show JKR planting the clues necessary to ID the true culprit. - CMC From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 17 04:59:59 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 04:59:59 -0000 Subject: obsession In-Reply-To: <940ele+ruh6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9438sf+it4i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9435 I would suggest questions that get at recruitment How many HP books have you given away? Loaned? If you go to parties, do you announce loudly, Who is into Harry Potter? and gather those with whom to talk? If you go to meetings, do you regularly survey the members to ask who has read HP? Also, fantasy questions are very, very important Do you fantasize meeting JKR and becoming friends? influencing some portion of the next book? Posting a brilliant post on HP for Grownups and being flooded with laudatory responses? Do you fantasize being in the movie? Consulting about the movie Winning Jeopardy's HP questions and receiving $50,000 dollars? Are your fantasies about actually being at Hogwarts and hanging out with the younger crowd -- HP, Hermione, Ron, Gred, Forge,etc. -- or teaching with Dumbledore, McGonagall, et aliae Do you think about raising dragons with Hagrid? do you muse about comforting Lupin or Black in their loneliness..... If you are 25 or below, are you thinking seriously about Cho, Fleur, or Cedric, or Viktor in a non-platonic way... I think the true test of HP obsessiveness is how much psychic space is HP occupying? From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 17 05:02:53 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:02:53 -0000 Subject: obsession In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94391t+2ps6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9436 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Tallonclaw at a... wrote: > << Simon wrote: > 61. Have you considered visiting the U.K. just to see where Platform > 9 3/4 would be?" > > "This question is a bit silly as some of us actually live here." > > How about- Have you ever gone around King's Cross station bumping > into various walls trying to get to platform 9 3/4?>> > > > Actually I went to London over New Years, and I did go to King's Cross and > was um hehe 'bumping into the walls' as you put it (well only one). The > people who saw me were giving me strange looks. Hoo boy did I feel like an > idiot. But it was fun! Ya know, there are more things in heaven and earth than dreamed of in some's philosophy.... Next time, you may find yourself staring at the Hogwarts Express who's read Number of the Beast.. you never know susan From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 17 05:06:19 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:06:19 -0000 Subject: Chapter 26 - The Second Task In-Reply-To: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <94398b+q982@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9437 Hope this posts--AO*ell gave me the boot as I was in the process of sending this. If there is a duplicate, administrators, would you please delete it? Thanks! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > In which Our Hero acts all heroic, thereby showing moral fiber, in the eyes of all but Karkaroff. Oh, good! For once, I've got my copy of GoF near the computer on Discussion Day... Questions: 1. Did Harry show moral fiber or was he being a prat? The former, of course. However, I think that the heroism Harry showed in the lake provided a balance for his irresponsible behavior in the weeks leading up to the Second Task. He procrastinated, and if it hadn't been for Dobby's help, he would have had to follow Ron's advice. (BTW, the "stick your head in the lake" quote ranks as one of my Favorite Ron Sayings.) 2. Why didn't Harry look for any potions or plants to help with the task? Does he automatically veer towards charms and transfigurations for any particular reason, or is he genetically inclined to those areas, given that they were his parents' specialties? Perhaps there is a genetic inclination towards certain areas of magic. There are a lot of theories under the subject "What constitutes magical ability and magical talent?" I'm still forming my opinions. I'd be more inclined to lean on the "nature" side of the arguments rather than the "nurture" (Lori's writing has influenced me in this regard). For instance, I'm with the school that suspects that Hermione's magical talent is aided a great deal by her intelligence... but there's also something else there... something innate. I'm not sure about Harry's leanings at this point. Others have pointed out that he seems to learn more towards McGonagall's and Flitwick's classes, and of course he hates Potions with Snape, but I'd say that the only class he works up to his potential in is Defense Against the Dark Arts... which didn't help him until the Third Task. > 3. Does Percy's protectiveness of Ron in this chapter change how you think of > him? I'm one of the few who sympathizes with Percy. Just added this incident to Percy Support checklist. 4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? What about it? (j/k) You know, I was telling Carole today that it would be a scream if JKR begins Book 5 with Hermione going on about the wonderful summer she had with "Viktor" and *neither* of her best friends caring. Where would the H/H vs. R/H debate be then? 5. If you were an H/H Shipper, would you consider the fact that Harry went to rescue Hermione before Cho as evidence that he likes her? How would you interpret this if you were an R/H shipper? Ignoring the second question, and moving back to the original... ;-) Contrary to popular belief, the H/H positions are based (well, most of the time) upon reason. Just as most of us don't read anything significant into The Kiss on GoF p. 734, most of us interpret the "Hermione first" incident in the same light as the R/Hers and everyone else. She's his best friend--concrete reality. At this point, Cho is a fantasy. Having stated the obvious from a text-level reading, I *would* begin to use my much-maligned Divination skills to read between the lines, but Penny's not around to be my second... and I'm too sleepy for a shipper duel. Ah, well, there's always the next time around! --Ebony From vderark at bccs.org Wed Jan 17 05:08:25 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:08:25 -0000 Subject: more fun quiz questions In-Reply-To: <5f.f9487b6.2795c186@aol.com> Message-ID: <9439c9+i5hn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9438 Here's a few nitpicky notes on the questions: > > In the PS/SS, a friend of Dudley's goes with Dudley, Vernon, Petunia and > Harry to the zoo. What was his name and what was his usual practice? And > where was the snake from? Note that this was NOT the London zoo, as someone's response seemed to suggest. When Harry goes to Diagon Alley with Hagrid, it is stated that he'd never been to London before, so he must have gone to some zoo nearer to home. > > What is the tavern that leads into Dragon Alley called? That's DIAGON Alley, which is a play on words: "diagonally". > > What was the name of the wizard who bowed to Harry in the street before > Harry knew he was a wizard? Daedelus Diggle bowed to him in a shop, not in the street. (Aunt Petunia immediately hurried Harry out of the shop without buying anything). Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From kathleen at carr.org Wed Jan 17 04:47:40 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 23:47:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Who is Harry Potter? Message-ID: <200101170547.f0H5l9C16080@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9439 Amy Z wrote: >What does it *mean,* *thematically,* if Harry is somehow, >from birth, the fated, anointed Conqueror of Voldemort (or even Evil >Itself)? What does it mean, thematically, if his importance stems >from something different than that, something not so much inherent in >his genes or background but emerging in the kind of person he is >becoming? I have always been uncomfortable with the idea that Harry is somehow a different "breed", as I think it takes away from what he does and what he becomes. (And have actually said so on the PoU list; I figure being an R/H shipper over there is a strike against me anyway, so why not go all the way and really irritate people? ) Amy, your post articulated a lot of the reasons I feel this way better than I could. Part of the appeal of Harry is that he is everyman, and to me, making him Super Harry takes a lot away from that. It makes his choices less meaningful. And I don't see any contradiction in believing this while knowing that there was something going on that kept Voldemort from destroying Harry. A friend of mine has a theory that Lily and James figured out a way to hide Voldemort's powers inside Harry (sort of like the Fidelius Charm). I'm not sure I buy it, but it's an interesting theory. It's quite possible that JKR is taking us in the direction of Harry-as-Superman. But I truly hope not, because I think the stories are much more powerful without that. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From vderark at bccs.org Wed Jan 17 05:59:18 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 05:59:18 -0000 Subject: Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) In-Reply-To: <942ohu+fp5a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <943cbm+1pr9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9440 I imagine a scene something like this. Voldemort and Wormtail are sitting around the campfire there in Albania, bored, whittling sticks, passing time. Bertha Jorkins was fun, but that was weeks ago. Then Voldemort suddenly sits bolt upright, which isn't easy considering the little scaly baby thing he is, and Wormtail's jacknife slips. Voldemort jumps up and says he has an idea and it's a doozy, oh that Harry Potter is going to pay. Wormtail jumps up, sucking on his finger and wincing with the pain of the cut he just gave himself, and says tell me, oh tell me, this'll be great! And Voldemort starts telling about the World Cup and the ancient magic and the Portkeys and the Goblet of Fire and how they're going to kidnap Harry and everything, and as he talks, Wormtail just stares at him. When he's finished, the respose is "Okay, all joking aside, what's your idea really?" And ever since that day, Wormtail has been trying to subtly sugges that maybe the whole thing is just a teensy bit, well, impossible, and that conversation we hear when he suggests using another person than Harry (DUH!) is just part of that. Maybe when the went to Crouch's and Voldemort got all excited again and told Barty Jr. his nifty idea, the two, Barty and Wormtail exchanged "Oh brother what a loony!" looks but didn't dare do anything about it. That's what I think happened. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From catlady at wicca.net Wed Jan 17 06:02:19 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 06:02:19 -0000 Subject: more trivia In-Reply-To: <94280v+abst@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <943chb+97tq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9441 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Joywitch " wrote: > Here are some hard trivia questions, Yes. Hard. I fail the quiz. > > 1. On what day of the week are James and Lily Potter killed? > 2. Which animal at the zoo does Harry think looks just like his > cousin Dudley, except that it's not blonde? Gorilla > 3. What is Hagrid's OFFICIAL title at Hogwarts? Keeper of the Keys and Grounds > 4. How much does Harry pay the owl who delivers Hagrid's newspaper? Five Knuts. I want them to be named after King Canute. > 5. In what vault at the Wizard Bank does Hagrid pick up a small > package wrapped in brown paper? 713???? > 6. Who was the last student to be sorted by the Sorting Hat and > what house did she or he go to? Zabini, Blaise. Slytherin > 7. What is a bezoar and what properties does it have? It's a hairball from a goat's stomach, but the medievals believed that it was found in the brain of a toad that was properly killed. It is an antidote to all poisons. 'What is a bezoar?' is one of the three questions that Snape asked Harry, but Hermione knew the answers. > 8. What year did Ollivander's open? 382 BC ???? > 9. What book does Snape take away from Harry, claiming that library > books are not allowed out of the castle? Quidditch Through the Ages (the long version, not the abridged version we'll all buy in March) > 10. How many centaurs does Harry meet in the Forbidden Forest and > what are their names? Ronan who is roan. Bane who is black, and Firenze who is palomino. I was uncomfortable with the one who has an unpleasant name ('the bane of my existence') and a bad attitude is the one with black skin as well as fur. > 11. In the chamber with the flying keys, what color was the one > that fit the door? Turquoise blue??? > 12. What was the final exam for Charms class? Making a pineapple tap-dance across a desk?? > --Joywitch Did you make up the quiz without peeking at the book? From catlady at wicca.net Wed Jan 17 06:58:57 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 06:58:57 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - The Potters In-Reply-To: <3A643958.16C0442F@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <943frh+uon7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9442 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > > 2. Is James Sexy? (Food for thought: Nobody on this list has ever > discussed whether James is sexy (snip) On the PoU list, it has been > stated that nobody ever seems to have a crush on James. Well, it seems to me that when I did some random poking around on ffnet that there were some non-wonderful MWPP stories that gave James rather broader shoulders and more muscles than seems likely if a skinny 14 year old can be mistaken for him. I agree that I also am in danger of seeing the more hunky image when I think of the sports star, clique leader, most popular guy in school, and world-saving hero. In a related vein, I am irritated at JKR for saying James was a Chaser -- she had all built up that Harry so much resembles James, and that Harry has the build for a Seeker (Oliver said so), and therefore James had the build for a Seeker... > What about Lily? Damn right she's sexy. Beautiful figure, beautiful face, charming manners -- and one hell of a brain, for people who like that sort of thing. I suspect I would have *hated* her if we'd been in school together. But an appalling lack of interest in anyone but her old school boyfriend. If she even has eyes for her close friend Sirius, it isn't more than eyes. > 3. Is James Potter a descendent of Godric Gryffindor? I expect so, but that Gryffindor was over a thousand years ago, and probably every pureblood wizard and witch in Britain is descended from all four founders! I feel sure that James's Potters are an old pureblood family. I decided a while ago that Godric Gryffindor was really a Welshman named Gruffydd Glyndwr, and I've suspected that James was Welsh at least since someone found a possible location of Godric's Hollow in Wales. This suspicion was strengthened when I saw Simon's group photo. Two of the young men were *terribly* nerdy looking. With their black hair and big glasses and too many teeth, I thought they were Asian (which to me means East Asian, not South Asian), but Simon said that neither of them are Asian, both are half-English, half-Welsh. From dherreid at colortechnology.com Wed Jan 17 07:00:30 2001 From: dherreid at colortechnology.com (dherreid at colortechnology.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:00:30 -0000 Subject: Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) In-Reply-To: <943cbm+1pr9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <943fue+ik3v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9443 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > I imagine a scene something like this. Voldemort and Wormtail are > sitting around the campfire there in Albania, bored, whittling > sticks, passing time. Bertha Jorkins was fun, but that was weeks ago. > > Then Voldemort suddenly sits bolt upright, which isn't easy > considering the little scaly baby thing he is, and Wormtail's > jacknife slips. Voldemort jumps up and says he has an idea and it's a > doozy, oh that Harry Potter is going to pay. Wormtail jumps up, > sucking on his finger... Steve, I hope I'm not being to informal since we have only just met, but you just made me wonder...in the grave yard, did Wormtail cut off his hand with the missing finger or his hand with all five fingers? Dell From catlady at wicca.net Wed Jan 17 07:08:45 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:08:45 -0000 Subject: Chapter 26 - The Second Task In-Reply-To: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <943gdt+h8mt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9444 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > the judges (all but Karkaroff) give Harry enough points to have him > tie with Cedric. I read Karkarff's biased scoring as a parody of Soviet judges in the Olympics. The USSR dissolved 10 years ago, so JKR is old enough to have intended the joke even if the teen-age readers aren't old enough to remember the reality. > > Why didn't Harry look for any potions or plants to help with the > task? Does he automatically veer towards charms and transfiguration IIRC, both Fleur and Cedric used the Bubblehead Charm, while Krum Transfigured himself into a shark, but badly. I get the impression that almost all wizarding folk incline more to charms and transfiguration ('foolish wand-waving') than to potions, herbology, arithmancy... > 3. Does Percy's protectiveness of Ron in this chapter change how > you think of him? I think the only time I disliked Percy was with his stupid report on the thickness of cauldrons -- enough to turn me into a Libertarian: too much gov't regulation! But his concern over Ron did give me a warm feeling. > 4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? I cite this event (that she was more important to him than his parents, siblings, school friends, Quidditch coach, etc) as PROOF that he was sincere about her, not just messing around. I don't think she's serious about him. From catlady at wicca.net Wed Jan 17 07:12:38 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:12:38 -0000 Subject: more fun quiz questions In-Reply-To: <5.0.1.4.2.20010116110602.06791120@brain-stream.com> Message-ID: <943gl6+4j2t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9445 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "B.K. DeLong" wrote: > I've got one: > > What are the first names of Professor Flitwick and Professor Sprout? Pogonia's HP AND THE DOOMSPELL POTION gave Flitwick the first name of Papilio, but I find that much more implausible than Flying Ford Anglia's suggestion of Feldibrand. Papilio just sounds so *Italian*. As the author of the herbology textbook is IIRC Phyllida Spore, maybe she is Phyllis Sprout. Fern Sprout. Ivy Sprout. From catlady at wicca.net Wed Jan 17 07:42:03 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:42:03 -0000 Subject: Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) In-Reply-To: <943cbm+1pr9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <943icb+cmrk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9446 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > Maybe when the went to Crouch's and Voldemort got all excited again > and told Barty Jr. his nifty idea, the two, Barty and Wormtail > exchanged "Oh brother what a loony!" looks but didn't dare do > anything about it. But Barty is a lunatic, too, so maybe he thought the plan was just great. From mschub at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 07:53:39 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (mschub at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 07:53:39 -0000 Subject: Dave Barry HP Column Message-ID: <943j23+so43@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9447 I know someone mentioned this several posts back, and I just figured I should throw the URL in here: http://www.miamiherald.com/content/archive/living/barry/1999/docs/aug1 3.htm That's Dave Barry's column "Get'cher Harry Potter Knockoffs While They're Hot!" and also: http://www.miamiherald.com/content/archive/living/barry/content.htm That's just an archive of all of Dave Barry's past columns for the last 30 months or so. For those of you who don't read, or haven't read, Dave Barry, I would highly, highly recommend spending some time at this site. He has CERTAINLY earned his "funniest man in America" title. -Mike From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Jan 17 08:16:50 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 08:16:50 -0000 Subject: GoF as mystery/US vs. UK versions In-Reply-To: <20010117025520.12513.qmail@web213.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <943kdi+gc9t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9448 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Ok, I love mysteries. > I've taken classes on mystery writing. There should always be some evidence. Something inconspicuous (sp?) but obvious. You're are 100% right in saving that the solution should be one you that makes you stop and thing "I shoulda known!" > > There was, IMO very litte in GoF that actually pointed to Crouch. On re-reading you can make certain inference but just reading it there isn't anything to let the reader know. > > I guess that GoF, whilst being the longest and darkest is IMHO the > most weakly-plotted of all the Harry Potter books so far... > > Scott Scott, I absolutely agree with your assessment of GoF as the most weakly-plotted book. Books 1-3 seemed tight and well-crafted, while GoF seemed too rushed. The M/C thing felt like an attempt to tie up threads, IMO. Beyond the darker tone, maturing of the characters, etc., the structure of the book had a different feel to me. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Sheryll Townsend wrote: > > > Anyway, I'm thinking of ordering the British > > editions from Amazon.co.uk. > > > Would that be worthwhile, in anybody's opinion? > > You could also consider ordering the Canadian versions > (same as the British - but maybe cheaper comparing our > dollar to yours). Try www.Chapters.ca > > If their shipping costs to the US are outrageous, and > you want to get the books there, email me > (s_ings at y...) and I can pick them up for you and > mail them (usually much cheaper than their shipping > charges). > > Sheryll Actually, Sheryll, I just ordered the boxset of the UK versions from Chapters, and the cost of the set is about $42, and about $6 S&H. Not bad, considering the hardcover US editions cost about that for me anyway. If I remember correctly, $12 a book seems about what I paid here when they came out. Kelley From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 17 08:26:09 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 03:26:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Where JKR really stole her ideas from/(not completely OT) References: <9436et+np5u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A655721.8755849C@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 9449 I'm rereading Secret Garden right now, and wanted to share some passages describing Colin Craven (who I am now convinced was at least a sliver of JKR's inspiration for Draco's looks & personality AND Colin Creevy's name): The boy had a sharp, delicate face the color of ivory and he seemed to have eyes too big for it. He had also a lot of hair which tumbled over his forehead in heavy locks and made his thin face seem smaller. He looked like a boy who had been ill, but he was crying more as if he were tired and cross than as if he were in pain. Mary stood near the door with her candle in her hand, holding her breath. Then she crept across the room, and, as she drew nearer, the light attracted the boy's attention and he turned his head on his pillow and stared at her, his gray eyes opening so wide that they seemed immense. "Who are you?" he said at last in a half-frightened whisper. "Are you a ghost?" "No, I am not," Mary answered, her own whisper sounding half frightened. "Are you one?" He stared and stared and stared. Mary could not help noticing what strange eyes he had. They were agate gray and they looked too big for his face because they had black lashes all round them. ... Though his father rarely saw him when he was awake, he was given all sorts of wonderful things to amuse himself with. He never seemed to have been amused, however. He could have anything he asked for and was never made to do anything he did not like to do. "Everyone is obliged to do what pleases me," he said indifferently. "It makes me ill to be angry..." ... "This is the first one," said Mary, seating herself on the big stool. "Once in India I saw a boy who was a Rajah. He had rubies and emeralds and diamonds stuck all over him. He spoke to his people just as you spoke to Martha. Everybody had to do everything he told them--in a minute. I think they would have been killed if they hadn't." ... From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 17 11:50:40 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:50:40 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Do vampires bleed? Message-ID: <01c0807b$b6fadb00$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 9450 > Grins... This is up my field... Mine, too! > In the gameworld of VtM, vampires can and do bleed, but the wounding depends on the degree of damage (similar to the degree of burn)--the more points taken, the more severe the damage. Vampires heal very quickly however, and if Snape had taken damage, 24 hours later it wouldn't be as noticeable. In fact, if he could walk with the wound open, he'd be perfectly O.K. in 24 hours. The only problem is - Snape can't be a VtM vampire. He may only be a JKR one, but I hope he's not. Anyway... if he *was*, which clan do you think he'd belong to? My bet is Tremere or Tzimische. Monika From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9484 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9485 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream cheese. Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine delicacy. Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it that it's *yummy*!! Penny >From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 11:59:06 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pennylin at swbell.net X-Apparently-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_1); 17 Jan 2001 19:58:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 7577 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2001 19:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l7.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2001 19:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net) (151.164.30.28) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Jan 2001 20:42:20 -0000 Received: from swbell.ne From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9486 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9487 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream cheese. Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine delicacy. Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it that it's *yummy*!! Penny >From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 11:59:06 2001 From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9488 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9489 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream cheese. Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine delicacy. Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it that it's *yummy*!! Penny >From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 11: From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9490 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively obscure one From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9491 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows wh From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9492 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the consistency of cream chee From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9493 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they re From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9494 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream cheese. Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine delicacy. Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it that it's *yummy*!! Penny >From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 11:59:06 2001 Ret From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:38:07 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:38:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9495 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > cottage cheese. I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream cheese. Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine delicacy. Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it that it's *yummy*!! Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 19:29:34 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:29:34 -0600 Subject: Wand Order Publicity; Obsession Quiz Message-ID: <3A65F29E.63DDDCD8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9496 Hi everyone -- I'm back from a mini-vacation to NY City -- sadly no more vacations for quite some time (at least a few months after the baby arrives in any case). As you know, I had lunch with Jeralyn, and it was as fun to meet her in person as it was when I met Ebony back in October! Funny how our physical images of our online friends rarely match up with their real appearance. She pictured me with shorter hair -- I pictured her with longer hair of a different color. I look forward to the regional HP get-togethers that we're all planning (and hopefully some national/int'l ones as well!). PUBLICITY -- We've gotten *lots* of new members thanks to the salon.com article (picked up by cnn.com) last week. I might also mention that I spoke with a reporter from the New York Daily News on Monday, and the article appeared in yesterday's issue. It has a similar tone to the salon.com article, and I've not yet had a chance to check & see if it's available online or not. If not, I'll see about scanning or typing in a text file. I also have had offlist inquiries from another reporter, who reports that he received the following rebuttal to the salon.com article from one of the editors at the Canadian publishers of HP: He disagreed with the notion that reversing the pronouns and proper names didn't work. "Clearly," writes the editor, "Lily is in Harry's mind a lot, whether this is stated outright or not -- and probably his mother figures most prominently in his thoughts in times of danger (yes, even more than his dad) because it was Lily who protected him with her own life, thereby giving him his power over Voldemort -- and the resulting scar on his forehead (proof of the power of Lily's love)." I wrote back to him & indicated that my personal opinion (which I think is shared by some of you at least) is that Harry can be said to have a more emotional connection to his father. After all, while he's affected by the sounds/memories of his mother's dying moments when the dementors draw near, it was his first memory of his father's voice that reduced him to tears in PoA. His patronus is his father's animagus form. And, I think it's his *father* and not his mother who figures most prominently in his thoughts in times of danger *after* PoA. He learned alot about his father in PoA, and he's established a bond with 2 of his father's dearest friends. And, there's no disputing that he was directly thinking about James and not Lily that night of the 3rd Task when facing Voldemort. I also think Harry is, at this point in his adolescence, identifying more with his father (this seems natural to me). And, in listening to PoA tapes this morning in the car, I remembered that it seems to be slurs against his father that enrage him more than anything said about his mum (when Aunt Marge says James was a wastrel and when Snape taunts him about his father). This reporter also says that the Canadian publishers have told him that JKR approved the change herself. I wrote back and said that my question would not be did she approve the change, but did she *write* the revisions (or approve the specific wording of the revisions). I also told him that it hasn't escaped our notice that simply changing pronouns & proper names does not require a change to the page layouts (hence, no additional printing costs in rearranging the page layouts for printing & binding books). To the newbies -- we have *lots* of theories about the wand order issue. Searching our message archives (both this group & our predecessor group at Yahoo) will be fruitful. There will also be a FAQ covering this topic (the "Mysteries & Inconsistencies" FAQ) sometime soon-ish. Even if it *is* just a mistake! IMO, many of our theories were far preferable to just saying "It was a mistake & we've fixed it." OBSESSION QUIZ -- I scored 72%. I think the reason the grownups can't score much higher is that some of the questions were clearly geared to teenagers or even younger kids. I like the one Dr MM is developing (other than the fact that I'm falsely accused of writing H/H fanfic -- ). Meant to add this to my reply on that one this morning -- I will eventually write H/H fanfic, and that might mean that I'm the only (???) fanfic writer who could claim to write fanfic devoted to more than one ship since ASA is H/G by necessity. *Are* there any fanfic writers who branch out & write about more than one ship? Seems like most of us are pretty well firmly committed to just one ship preference. Penny From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 17 20:13:20 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:13:20 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: US vs. UK versions In-Reply-To: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9497 I can answer this because I just got my hardback copies of the 4 UK versions of the HP books. I ordered them from Amazon.UK. The total cost was just under $75.00 (including shipping & handling), and they we From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 17 20:13:20 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:13:20 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: US vs. UK versions In-Reply-To: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9498 I can answer this because I just got my hardback copies of the 4 UK versions of the HP books. I ordered them from Amazon.UK. The total cost was just under $75.00 (including shipping & handling), and they were delivered directly to me. I ordered them on January 5, and they were delivered on January 16. I used my VISA charge card, and they translated pounds into dollars automatically. One note: my UK version of GoF does not have the wand order correction -- it still says James came out of the wand before Lily. -----Original Message----- From: Marvin Long [mailto:msl at fc.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:52 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: US vs. UK versions First, thanks to everybody who replied to my question! Second, Jim, did you encounter any issues with paying duty on the books you ordered from the UK? I'm guessing any order I would do would be too cheap to be held up, but I'm curious--did you have to go to the post office to pay any remnant shipping or customs charges, or were your books delivered to your door? I'm thinking it'll be worth it to get the paperback boxed set of the first three books plus GoF from Amazon.co.uk. If I've done my homework right, the whole package could cost under US $30-35. marvin >From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 12:39:25 2001 Return-Path: X-Sender: pennylin at swbell.net X-Apparently-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_1_1); 17 Jan 2001 20:39:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 31905 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2001 20:13:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (10.1.10.142) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 17 Jan 2001 20:13:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cj.egroups.com) (10.1.2.82) by mta3 with SMTP; 17 Jan 2001 21:14:14 -0000 X-eGroups-Return: pennylin at swbell.net Received: from [10.1.2.225] by cj.egroups.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2001 20:13:08 -0000 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:13:03 -0000 To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: What is a shipper? Message-ID: <944ucf+bc0k at eGroups.com> In-Reply-To: <005901c08071$a0fd79c0$5e00a8c0 at cablecom.ch> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.8 From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 17 20:13:20 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 13:13:20 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: US vs. UK versions In-Reply-To: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9499 I can answer this because I just got my hardback copies of the 4 UK versions of the HP books. I ordered them from Amazon.UK. The total cost was just under $75.00 (including shipping & handling), and they were delivered directly to me. I ordered them on January 5, and they were delivered on January 16. I used my VISA charge card, and they translated pounds into dollars automatically. One note: my UK version of GoF does not have the wand order correction -- it still says James came out of the wand before Lily. -----Original Message----- From: Marvin Long [mailto:msl at fc.net] Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 11:52 AM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: US vs. UK versions First, thanks to everybody who replied to my question! Second, Jim, did you encounter any issues with paying duty on the books you ordered from the UK? I'm guessing any order I would do would be too cheap to be held up, but I'm curious--did you have to go to the post office to pay any remnant shipping or customs charges, or were your books delivered to your door? I'm thinking it'll be worth it to get the paperback boxed set of the first three books plus GoF from Amazon.co.uk. If I've done my homework right, the whole package could cost under US $30-35. marvin From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 17 22:07:11 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:07:11 -0600 Subject: HP Books in text files - useful for fans References: <9432eg+asdk@eGroups.com> <3A659207.B098B9E9@attglobal.net> <00fc01c08106$8236f300$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A66178F.A7999BD2@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9500 Hi -- Well, as part of the egroups problems of late, I can't find Peg's original message (quoted below in Mike's reply). But, I will respond on the basis of Mike's message nonetheless .... Aberforth's Goat wrote: > Peg wrote, > > > I care. I am a published novel who makes money on the basis of my > copyright. Please do not publish this URL any further. > > Thank you for speaking up Peg. Perhaps one of our moderators could delete the > post in question (pro forma for us email readers, but still a wise gesture.) The moderators have deleted this message and explained the copyright problems to the poster of the original message. This is very serious business guys. It's probably only a matter of time before Scholastic or Bloomsbury or someone else shuts it down, but in the meantime, you are violating the copyright laws of the US if you use this electronic version (or distribute the URL to the version). It's blatant copyright violation, and this group definitely should refrain from adding to the problem. > There is a valid issue here, though. It *is* very helpful to have access to > electronic, searchable texts. If there were an approved one I could pay Jo > money for, I would. Does anyone here have any knowledge of such a text? (I > don't.) And what *is* the legal status of having and using one, provided one > already owns the same edition in the same language and has it sitting next > to his computer? As best I know Mike, there isn't an authorized electronic version yet. Hopefully, this is only a matter of time, and those of us who would use it regularly can have the legal opportunity to do so. I fully expect that by the time the 5th or 6th book comes out, there will probably be authorized electronic versions of all the HP books available for sale to the general public. But, until then, we're all out of luck. As to the legal status -- hmmm .... I'm sure Heidi could weigh in more accurately than I can. Wouldn't it essentially be the same thing as these e-books that people are touting as the next great thing? Or, are you asking if it's copyright violation to have & use an unauthorized, unpaid-for electronic version as long as you also have the hard copies of those books sitting on your desk? I don't think owning the books outright undoes the copyright harm of the unauthorized electronic version, but I could be wrong. In any case, please do not post the URL to those versions to this group. My warning to you as an attorney is also to refrain from using these black market electronic versions. Penny From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Jan 17 22:30:38 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:30:38 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 26 - The Second Task In-Reply-To: <943gdt+h8mt@eGroups.com> References: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010117140751.00c74640@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9501 At 07:08 AM 1/17/01 +0000, Rita Winston wrote: > > Why didn't Harry look for any potions or plants to help with the > > task? Does he automatically veer towards charms and transfiguration > >IIRC, both Fleur and Cedric used the Bubblehead Charm, while Krum >Transfigured himself into a shark, but badly. I get the impression >that almost all wizarding folk incline more to charms and >transfiguration ('foolish wand-waving') than to potions, herbology, >arithmancy... I thought maybe Harry unconsciously veers away from anything that reminds him of Snape, but that doesn't explain the other champions. (Unless Beauxbatons and Durmstrang have stinkers for Potions masters as well.) >I think the only time I disliked Percy was with his stupid report on >the thickness of cauldrons -- enough to turn me into a >Libertarian: too much gov't regulation! But his concern over Ron did >give me a warm feeling. Whereas someone like me, rasied by left-wing New Dealer FDR-and- JFK-should-be-canonized liberals, tends to instinctively think "Well, regulation of caldron thickness is probably an important issue." But when Voldy and the Death-Eaters are running around trying to take over the world... It's like what I read that during the Civil Rights/Vietnam War Era, Michael Dukakis' big passionate crusade was for no-fault auto insurance. I don't believe Percy will go over to the Dark Side, but I think he will hide behind his Caudron Bottom report and other "red boxes" (I *am* right? -- They *are* red aren't they, British Gov't experts?) through the whole conflict. But for the sake of comic relief, I hope his bureaucratic feats of daring get more and more absurd. -- Dave From heiditandy at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 22:29:44 2001 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:29:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Who is Harry Potter? (long) Message-ID: <20010117222944.21933.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9502 --- Kimberly wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, > heidi.h.tandy.c92 at a... wrote: > > > > > I just feel that there has to be something more to > it. As Lori wrote > > in Paradigm of Uncertainty (her wonderful fanfic, > for those who are > > new to this list, which is avaialble at > > > http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory- > > authorProfile&userid=3572) there were other > witches & wizards who > > sacrificed themselves for their family - and > sometimes, there > must've > > been witches & wizards who even sacrificed > themselves for strangers > - > > but the people they were protecting died anyway. > > Can you give me an example of someone else who > didn't survive despite > a witch or wizard dying to save them? I can't think > of any so far, > but I know I could be missing something. I'd just > hate to see a > sacrifice like that belittled as 'not enough', so > I'm hoping my theory > is right, but if someone can find a good reason for > me, I suppose I'm > willing to give it up. Oh, I'm not trying to belittle the sacrifice - I think that kind of sacrifice is an amazing, honorable and horrible thing - and I'm not refering to any specific thing that's been mentioned in the books - i.e. JKR hasn't said "Person K died in hopes of his sacrifice saving his cousin J, because he loved J so much but J didn't survive the Avada Kedavra curse" - it's more like, in the 10+ years that Voldemort was taking over, and death eaters were killing people left & right, it would be improbable that Lily POtter was the first person to throw her/himself between a Death Eater (or Voldemort) doing the AK curse, and the intended victim. ===== heidi tandy What Maureen Dowd thinks David Souter was thinking on Monday, December 11, 2000: I know the Bushes are furious at me. That'll teach 'em to assume that a guy living like a monk in an isolated New Hampshire farmhouse is some kind of Live Free or Die nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 23:25:13 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:25:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Basic, basic question about PS/SS References: <94424r+ta6j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <017701c080dc$bf5a4ae0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9503 Hmm. The Fluffy part is what I'll pick up the stick on (still have only 200 emails to go through, already did 100, so...that's what I get for going to school with Ian today, lol!). Perhaps Snape's Portions part was the last part of the line and he was "placing it in spot". ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 6:11 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Basic, basic question about PS/SS Speaking of mysteries--someone wrote that PS/SS is the best in terms of a mystery novel. So here goes my embarrassing question: Will someone please briefly and gently explain to me the various Snape/Quirrell/Fluffy interactions? Okay, Snape was for protecting the Stone, against V, and for saving Harry's life. Got that. But my head spins when I try to understand (a) what he was saying to Q in the forest and (b) why he was trying to get past Fluffy. And throw in (c), when he countered Q's attempt to knock Harry off his broom, did he know that it was Q who was cursing him? I assume not, but help me out here. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- eGroups Sponsor Click Here! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Tallonclaw at aol.com Wed Jan 17 22:36:16 2001 From: Tallonclaw at aol.com (Tallonclaw at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:36:16 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: more fun quiz questions Message-ID: <5d.5f79de6.27977860@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9504 In a message dated 1/16/01 11:13:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, catlady at wicca.net writes: << > I've got one: > > What are the first names of Professor Flitwick and Professor Sprout? Pogonia's HP AND THE DOOMSPELL POTION gave Flitwick the first name of Papilio, but I find that much more implausible than Flying Ford Anglia's suggestion of Feldibrand. Papilio just sounds so *Italian*. As the author of the herbology textbook is IIRC Phyllida Spore, maybe she is Phyllis Sprout. Fern Sprout. Ivy Sprout. >> I could have sworn his name was Fredrick, wasn't he one of the teachers sitting at the Head table over the winter break in CoS, when Trelawney made her "who-ever-gets-up-first-is-going-to-die" prediction? Nik From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 17 22:47:05 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 17 Jan 2001 14:47:05 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession quiz is done . . . Message-ID: <20010117224705.22209.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9505 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From msl at fc.net Wed Jan 17 22:48:07 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:48:07 -0000 Subject: Chapter 26 - The Second Task In-Reply-To: <3A643291.F7F6BCBF@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <9457f7+h0me@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9506 > Questions: > 1. Did Harry show moral fiber or was be being a prat? Moral fiber - he was willing to sacrifice his game for the sake of saving lives. Prat - he didn't understand the rules of the game well enough respond correctly. In this sense, I sympathize with Karakoff...if the Tri-Wizard tournament is analogous to the Olympics, you don't give competitors extra points for things they do as a result of not understanding the rules of the game. *Unless* the ambiguity of the fates of the hostages is intentional, designed to elicit a response that can be evaluated on a moral level. But if that were the case, Karakoff would be obliged to take Harry's good deed into account, and clearly he doesn't feel so obliged. On the other hand, the French competitor seems not to have felt secure regarding her sister's safety, either--she wasn't just upset because she did badly; she also feared for her sister's life. If a contestant whom we can presume to have been properly prepared was genuinely uncertain about the terms of the competition, then I think we can tip Harry's performance in favor of moral fiber. > 2. Why didn't Harry look for any potions or plants to help with the task? Does > he automatically veer towards charms and transfigurations for any particular > reason, or is he genetically inclined to those areas, given that they were his > parents' specialties? I think he's just ignorant, suffering the combined disadvantages of a) being Muggle raised, and b) being too young and inexperienced for the tournament. Conversely, one might argue that if Moody/Crouch hadn't given Longbottom that book about magical aquatic plants, it would been in the library for Potter to find when he was frantically searching for a solution. (Do we really know if the book given to Longbottom was actually Crouch's or if he took it from the library?) I seem to recall that he *did* look at things that would qualify as potions, but the thing about gillweed was that it *wasn't* a potion--you just eat the stuff. I suspect that a plant like this, whose magical properties are useful without prior preparation, is actually rather rare. The other competitors seem not to have known about it, anyway. I also recall that Crouch chastised Potter for not asking Longbottom for help--but really, of all the people in Gryffindor, to whom would Harry be less likely to turn to for help than the perpetually bumbling Longbottom? > 3. Does Percy's protectiveness of Ron in this chapter change how you think of > him? Ah, Percy's a good chap. Just trying to kiss butt and get ahead so he won't have to live in insecurity and poverty. > 4. What about Hermione & Krum's relationship? Krum reminds me of the stereotype of the East European or Russian athlete, selected at a very young age for his talent and then sheparded/forced through a program of rigorous, endless training for the greater glory of the school/state/whatever. Despite his youth he's likely been a celebrity for so long that he's sick of it and desperate for some privacy and for a normal kind of friendship or relationship. I can understand that he would be attracted to Hermione, a studious girl who doesn't chase after him for a change. Despite their age difference, she might strike him as more mature and approchable than the sycophantic girls I presume he's more accustomed to seeing...she's someone he can actually talk to! As for Hermione, I think she's definitely curious and flattered by Krum, but I think she's also pretty smart about "relationships" for somebody her age. The prospect of somebody like Krum might offer a way out of the potential love triangle that might happen if she were to "go" for either Ron or Harry; also, since she sees a lot of Ron and Harry, they may strike her as, well, a little bit too immature. Like many girls her age, she may be much more intrigued by an older guy. Intellectually, her curiosity regarding other cultures may make her interested in Krum for reasons that are largely non-romantic. > 5. If you were an H/H Shipper, would you consider the fact that Harry went to > rescue Hermione before Cho as evidence that he likes her? How would you > interprit this if you were an R/H shipper? Since I'm neither, I think that Harry was concerned primarily for his friends as friends, period, and probably considered it a rotten trick for them to be turned into gamepieces in the Tournament. Cheerio! marvin From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 17 22:44:34 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:44:34 -0000 Subject: obsession quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9507 Penny wrote: "I took Dr MM's quiz, and I won't admit what my score was other than to say that it was alarmingly high (OMG). BUT, I must object strenuously to Question #30 since that's basically the same damn question as "Are you Penny?" Isn't it? Hardly seems fair to the rest of you ...." Come on list mother - tell us how bad it was. You're in here with a bunch of obsessive people so it cannot be that bad! I found it quite amusing that you can get 202% on that quiz (involves you being Steve, Jenna, Penny and DrMM - which may be difficult!). I object to question 1. It sound be: Have you read Harry Potter and the Philopsher's Stone or Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. If I enter into the spirit of the question then I get just under 50% - if I say the true answer to question 1 (which is no) then I get no where near 50% (as I then have to answer no to questions 5 and 6 as well). I am fairly happy - I am not too obsessed! Simon From heiditandy at yahoo.com Wed Jan 17 22:56:27 2001 From: heiditandy at yahoo.com (heidi tandy) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:56:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP Books in text files - useful for fans Message-ID: <20010117225627.32003.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9508 Hi - I'm in San Francisco today - I wanted to email all of you from the airplane, but Harry just would *not* go to sleep! --- Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I fully expect that by the > time the 5th or 6th book comes out, there will > probably be authorized electronic > versions of all the HP books available for sale to > the general public. But, > until then, we're all out of luck. As to the legal > status -- hmmm .... I'm sure > Heidi could weigh in more accurately than I can. > Wouldn't it essentially be the > same thing as these e-books that people are touting > as the next great thing? > Or, are you asking if it's copyright violation to > have & use an unauthorized, > unpaid-for electronic version as long as you also > have the hard copies of those > books sitting on your desk? I don't think owning > the books outright undoes the > copyright harm of the unauthorized electronic > version, but I could be wrong. Under US copyright law, it is illegal to make copies of a printed work that you own (you can legally make A Copy For Personal Use of recorded media (such as dubbing your HP cds onto blank tapes for YOU and YOU ALONE to use in your car) and you can legally make ONE copy of software for backup purposes, though). There's a small exception for Fair Use - i.e. criticism, reporting, education - which means that if you want to take a page of one of the HP books, type it into your computer, and do a textual analysis of it for your college class on Folktales and Fairy Stories, or take individual lines of dialog and set them to music for your Rise and Fall ofthe Great American Musical class (yes, I took a class with that title in college - and Penny - we wrote a musical version of When Harry Met Sally (of course, one of the songs we wrote had to actual *words*, just, um, sounds...)) you can do that. But there is no provision under Fair Use which will allow you to scan the books and put them on discs and give them to your students, or even download the already-created text versions onto your computers. ===== heidi tandy What Maureen Dowd thinks David Souter was thinking on Monday, December 11, 2000: I know the Bushes are furious at me. That'll teach 'em to assume that a guy living like a monk in an isolated New Hampshire farmhouse is some kind of Live Free or Die nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Jan 17 22:42:32 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:42:32 -0000 Subject: Clotted Cream In-Reply-To: <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94574o+8bfq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9509 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > > cottage cheese. > > I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since > this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, > don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* > think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively > obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it > on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the > consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream cheese. > Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine delicacy. > Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it that it's > *yummy*!! > > Penny I'm not a Brit, but you can find clotted cream in the US at speciality stores like Dean and Deluca or mail order catalogues like Vermont Country Store. It is yummy and very caloric (but most yummy things are!). I've seen recipes for real clotted cream and faux-clotted cream, but unless you have access to unpasteurized fresh milk (fresh as in still warm from the cow) you're better off buying it. :-) Milz From relliott at jvlnet.com Wed Jan 17 23:13:51 2001 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 17:13:51 -0600 Subject: US vs. UK (Wand order) Message-ID: <001e01c080db$2883e6e0$bdb291d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9510 > Subject: RE: Re: US vs. UK versions > > I can answer this because I just got my hardback copies of the 4 UK versions > of the HP books. I ordered them from Amazon.UK. The total cost was just > under $75.00 (including shipping & handling), and they were delivered > directly to me. I ordered them on January 5, and they were delivered on > January 16. I used my VISA charge card, and they translated pounds into > dollars automatically. > > One note: my UK version of GoF does not have the wand order correction -- > it still says James came out of the wand before Lily. INTERESTING: I ordered the Brittish version from Amazonuk.com on Jan 2, received them on Jan 7 and the wand correction was in mine. (It was the first thing I looked for :),) . Not that I didn't beleive that the change was made, I just wanted to see it in black and white. I ordered the seperate books and not the box set. Good Luck Ordering. From m-drelichman at northwestern.edu Wed Jan 17 23:16:55 2001 From: m-drelichman at northwestern.edu (Mauricio Drelichman) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:16:55 -0000 Subject: HP Books in text files - useful for fans In-Reply-To: <3A66178F.A7999BD2@swbell.net> Message-ID: <945957+mjbl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9511 Penny wrote: > Or, are you asking if it's copyright violation to have & use an unauthorized, > unpaid-for electronic version as long as you also have the hard copies of those > books sitting on your desk? I don't think owning the books outright undoes the > copyright harm of the unauthorized electronic version, but I could be wrong. Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney, I have not studied copyright law, and all that follows is my strictly personal opinion. I think hat having an electronic version on your hard drive, *if you actually own the books and have them with you*, is not a copyright violation. It's the same as making a photocopy of the book to scribble your notes on it, as I do with my textbooks, which I like to keep unmarked. Who actually produces the electronic version is irrelevant. Think of it this way: would it be a copyright infringemet to scan your own copy of HP and store it in your hard drive, using it every now and then to quickly find this or that passage? If not, what's the difference with a downloaded copy? An analogy to this problem is the mp3.com system, that allows you to store on-line versions of the songs you actually own in mp3 format. With CDs enforcement is easier, because they have an unique identification number that your CD-ROM drive can read and send to the web-site. Another analogy is with software copyright; you are allowed to backup all the software you own and even install it on as many computers as you want, provided you use only one copy at a time. What is illegal in this case is to freely distribute the electronic version without checking that whoever downloads it owns the copyright. Of course, downloading it without owning the copyright is also illegal. Waht we are seeing is yet another convolution in the tense interaction of technology and copyright law, where many issues are still undefined. Whoever posted that electronic version incurred in blatant copyright violation; but I don't think that whoever downloaded, if he/she owns the books, incurred in nearly as serious a crime, if any. All this, of course, IMHO. Mauricio From bradamant at hotmail.com Wed Jan 17 23:24:03 2001 From: bradamant at hotmail.com (Emily Owens) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:24:03 -0500 Subject: shippers/URL/mystery? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9512 I am one of those newbies who found you through the salon.com article, and I'm extra-pleased to find such a thoughtful group of people staying so on-topic. This is unique in my experience of listservs and newsgroups! Since I've been lurking a few days by reading the digests, I will begin with hopefully not annoying you too much by replying to a few threads at once: the shippers, the electronic version and (most loquaciously) is HP a mystery? I am completely amused (in the good way!) by the shippers' debates, but would like to suggest, as a devil's advocate, that it's more fun not to know. Which is more fun to watch: a soap opera, where everything takes place on the surface, and everyone is always getting it on, or the X-Files, where nothing ever, ever happened? I think I prefer *not* to know, thereby maintaining the potential of all sorts of interesting 'ships. But OTOH I am gratified to know that I'm not alone in finding Sirus intriguing... ;) I haven't followed the URL to the electronic version, but I second the person who pointed out that their searchability is key. I work in publishing, but even I'll admit that it's useful to have that ability--and I don't feel threatened by the possibility of people reading entire novels on their computer screens, because I don't believe they'll do it. I think it's important to have a searchable version because of the kind of books that JKR writes -- books that reward the careful reader. It's important to be able to find arcane quotes and details, because the author evidently intends us to find and think about them. I am reminded of the work of Nabokov (no, really :) because of the way that JKR hides little details that you completely miss the first time, but that *wink* at you on a second reading. Many of the posts I've read have dealt with things like allusions to _The Secret Garden_, and I don't find them at all far-fetched. I think HP represents something new: "children's" literature that deals with its antecendents in a sophisticated "adult-literature" sort of way. There aren't many children's books that could sustain the sort of discussion that goes on here! That brings me to the "mystery" thread, and why I don't think that HP books are mysteries, at least as I read them. First of all, I don't like mysteries, and I like HP, so HP can't be mystery. ;) More seriously, while JKR does an excellent job of planting hints that prevent you from feeling cheated by the ending, she also doesn't seem really to want you to figure it all yourself out on the first reading. I wonder how many people, even adults, have actually figured out the "mystery" of any given book -- I venture to guess it's very few. Unlike "whodunnit"-genre mysteries which follow a protagonist as s/he tries to discover the circumstances surrounding a particular mysterious event, HP books lack specific mysteries to be solved. There is a sense that something bad is going on, but there is rarely *one* key thing (e.g. a murder) that they are trying to sort out. Also, HP and friends are curious and get into a lot of trouble, but they aren't "detectives" in the sense that they drop their books and broomsticks to spend all their time hunting down clues. Since the reader knows no more than they do, s/he is ill-equipped to become an extra-narrative "detective" him- or herself. And while things do get "solved" at the end of each book, the individual puzzles are less significant than the progressive unveiling of what is turning out to be a very complex historical story. HP actually reminds me more of the "thriller" genre, in that there are constant realignments of friend and foe (or rather, misidentifications of who's on what side), and a good-guy/bad-guy war-related back-story. But in the end, it doesn't really matter what genre these books remind me of, because I think they are actually unique. I've read them many less times than most of you have, though, so I wonder if you think my comments are on-target or newbie-ish. :) Emily _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Thu Jan 18 00:05:22 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:05:22 +1100 Subject: Hyacinth Bucket as inspiration for Petunia? References: <944d8j+jva1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00c701c080e2$59c74650$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9513 Ah yes, I loved Patricia Routledge in KuA. That mystery show she was in afterwards was crap. Simon. > Petunia and Lily put me in mind of Hyacinth Bucket (social climber > meeting above description, in British sitcom Keeping Up Appearances) > and her sisters, who all have flower names also. (Bucket is, of > course, pronounced Bouquet...at least by Hyacinth) > > Another case of plagiarism? > > Amy Z > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > "And some old witch in Bath had a book that you could *never > stop reading*! You just had to wander around with your nose > in it, trying to do everything one-handed." > --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Thu Jan 18 00:18:23 2001 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:18:23 -0000 Subject: Clotted Cream References: <94574o+8bfq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003301c080e4$2c29a740$4649893e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 9514 Despite the fact that I've been lurking for ages. Real life is a bit too much for me at the moment. I had to answer this one. Clotted cream is the closest thing to heaven that I know. Its very thick and quite solid you spread it as opposed to pour it. Whether clotted cream that originates in Devon or Cornwall is the best is debatable, as I'm engaged to a Kernow (Cornish) man I'd better support the Cornish. It is irresistible served with Golden Syrup on fresh bread its a Cornish delicacy known as Thunder and Lightening. As for comparing it to cottage cheese well words fail me I should the calorie count for clotted cream is at least four times that of cream cheese and it is at least ten times nicer. Heather, very biased and yes you've guessed it overweight. PS: I have just purchased a new textbook "Language Knowledge for Primary School Teachers." and discovered it contains references to HP & the PS in a chapter applying knowledge to fictional texts. Rumour has it that HP & PS is to be added to the list of recommended texts for Years 4,5 & 6. (9,10 &11 year olds for non UK members.) I hope to lurk less when my horrendous workload falls a bit. "...Words strain, crack and sometimes break, under the burden, under the tension, slip, slide, perish, decay with imprecision, will not stay in place, will not stay still. Eliot, 1944. ----- Original Message ----- From: milz To: Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Clotted Cream > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > Hi -- > > > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > > > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > > > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to > be > > > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something > like > > > cottage cheese. > > > > I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but > since > > this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. > And, BTW, > > don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't > *all* > > think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some > relatively > > obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can > spread it > > on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat > like the > > consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream > cheese. > > Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine > delicacy. > > Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it > that it's > > *yummy*!! > > > > Penny > > I'm not a Brit, but you can find clotted cream in the US at > speciality stores like Dean and Deluca or mail order catalogues like > Vermont Country Store. > > It is yummy and very caloric (but most yummy things are!). I've seen > recipes for real clotted cream and faux-clotted cream, but unless you > have access to unpasteurized fresh milk (fresh as in still warm from > the cow) you're better off buying it. > > :-) Milz > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From lj2d30 at gateway.net Thu Jan 18 00:36:59 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:36:59 -0000 Subject: Governor Hodges mentions HP Message-ID: <945drb+mhqm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9515 Tonight is the state-of-the-state address by Governor Jim Hodges of South Carolina, where I live. If you recall, SC was the site of one of the "Harry is evil and must not be read in our schools" protests shortly after PoA was released, resulting in the response of "It's up to the individual school district to decide what to do with Harry, but we are not going to remove it from the school libraries" from the state board of education. Where am I going with this, you wonder? Well, tonight Governor Hodges uttered this phrase regarding a reading program in his speech: "...is bringing the magic of Harry Potter to our children..." Harry was the ONLY book that he mentioned in regards to this reading program. I was thrilled beyond belief that the Governor of the state which had such an unfounded kefuffle over Harry in the classrooms mentioned it in an enlightened and positive way. Perhaps he, too, is a fan of the cannon. Trina, who is glad to know that it was e-groups that had the problems and it was not Penny who posted multiple messages about clotted cream! From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 00:15:01 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 18:15:01 -0600 Subject: HP Books in text files - useful for fans References: <945957+mjbl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A663585.C98BFB57@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9516 Hi -- Mauricio Drelichman wrote: > I think that having an electronic version on your hard drive, *if you > actually own the books and have them with you*, is not a copyright > violation. Actually it is very much a violation. I think this matter deserves some attention just to be sure that everyone understands the issues & the law. Heidi (who is an intellectual property lawyer) may chime in with corrections. I'm an attorney but not an IP lawyer. JK Rowling holds the copyrights to the HP books. A copyright is a "bundle of rights." Hence, she possesses (and can sell, assign or license) the following rights: the right to reproduce the work in copies, the right to distribute the copies to the public, the right to public performance & display of a work and the right to prepare derivative works. Typically, an author sells & licenses the rights of reproducing & distribution to a publisher. One of my writer's handbooks to copyright law has this to say: "Public display of a work includes exhibiting or otherwise communicating a copy of it 'by means of any device or process,' whether members of the public receive it at the same place or in separate places, at the same time or at different times. If this sounds suspiciously like putting the work out on a computer bulletin board, you've hit on one of the rights the copyright law will protect." > It's the same as making a photocopy of the book to scribble your notes > on it, as I do with my textbooks, which I like to keep unmarked. It's doubtful that anyone would challenge you for doing the above, but it also is technically a violation of copyright laws. Fair use "applies to limited use of a small portion of a copyrighted work for approved purposes, such as commentary, criticism or scholarship." Fair use is a technical & narow doctrine -- copying an entire book is clearly outside the bounds of "fair use," even for scholarship. > Who actually produces the electronic version is irrelevant. Think of it > this way: would it be a copyright infringemet to scan your own copy of > HP and store it in your hard drive, using it every now and then to > quickly find this or that passage? Technically, yes. You don't have the right to reproduce the book under the copyright laws. > What is illegal in this case is to freely distribute the electronic > version without checking that whoever downloads it owns the > copyright. Of course, downloading it without owning the copyright > is also illegal. > As I said above, JK Rowling is the one & only copyright owner. Just because I purchased a copy of HP & the CoS does not make me a copyright owner. Only the author holds the copyright. Her assignees (publishers, WB, etc.) have acquired certain limited rights to help promote, sell & distribute her work, but she retains the sole ownership of the copyright. A consumer who buys a book does not become a copyright owner. > Waht we are seeing is yet another convolution in the tense interaction > of technology and copyright law, where many issues are still undefined. > Whoever posted that electronic version > incurred in blatant copyright violation; but I don't think that whoever > downloaded, if he/she owns the books, incurred in nearly as serious a > crime, if any. As I understand it now (having just checked some references out of curiosity), electronic rights (the right to reproduce the work in text-readable format, whether distributed through the internet or on CD-ROMs) are now considered primary rights as much as print reproduction rights (rather than just subsidiary rights). None of my sources really address this pirating/black market copies issue to any real extent, but it is my mind very much a violation of copyright. It may be less likely that the author or publisher will institute proceedings against someone who merely downloaded an illicit copy (rather than the person who scanned & uploaded the pirated materials), but it is an equal violation under the terms of the law I believe. Fanfic: I assume most fanfic authors rely on the fact that they derive no commercial benefit from the work, but I wonder if Heidi has any further thoughts about whether fanfic authors are on firm ground with that thought. I asked the question long ago, but I think it was before Heidi joined us. Heidi can step in & correct anything I've misstated .... Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From amy at pressroom.com Thu Jan 18 00:51:59 2001 From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:51:59 -0500 Subject: HP in comics References: <01b601c07fbf$01ea7e80$022a07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <030701c080e8$ddb57a80$0200a8c0@pressroom.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9517 Harry Potter has been the subject this week in the comic strip Big Nate, a comic strip about a 6th grade boy. Check it out at http://www.comics.com/comics/bignate/index.html Amy From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Jan 18 01:09:29 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:09:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP Books in text files - useful for fans References: <9432eg+asdk@eGroups.com> <3A659207.B098B9E9@attglobal.net> <00fc01c08106$8236f300$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A66178F.A7999BD2@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A664249.A7F9270E@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9518 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Well, as part of the egroups problems of late, I can't find Peg's original > message (quoted below in Mike's reply). But, I will respond on the basis of > Mike's message nonetheless .... > > Aberforth's Goat wrote: > > > Peg wrote, > > > > > I care. I am a published novel who makes money on the basis of my > > copyright. Please do not publish this URL any further. > > > > Thank you for speaking up Peg. Perhaps one of our moderators could delete the > > post in question (pro forma for us email readers, but still a wise gesture.) > > The moderators have deleted this message and explained the copyright problems to > the poster of the original message. Actually, I am a published NOVELIST . . . one with a serious ongoing need for a competent copyeditor. Thanks very much, Penny. Your firm stand on this particular issue is very much appreciated. Peg From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Jan 18 01:29:18 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:29:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Clotted Cream References: <944pjs+jdi4@eGroups.com> <3A65EF99.CD3A8FB7@texas.net> <3A65F49E.C1375752@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A6646EE.46E2D1A2@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9519 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > Okay, I've got to know. One usage they retain in the US version is > > "clotted cream." What in hell *is* that? In context, it seems to be > > something sweet, but the image it conjures up for me is something like > > cottage cheese. > > I know some Brit will respond with a more complete explanation, but since > this Texan knows what clotted cream is, I'll take a stab at it. And, BTW, > don't go generalizing about all us Texans there Amanda -- we don't *all* > think London is the only city in the UK. I can even name some relatively > obscure ones. Clotted cream is simply wonderful. You can spread it > on scones like butter or cream cheese. I suppose it's somewhat like the > consistency of cream cheese, although not quite so dense as cream cheese. > Um ... Devon is the region of England best known for this divine delicacy. > Okay ... I'll let the Brits take over from here. I'll leave it that it's > *yummy*!! > > Penny The Brits may howl (Sacrilege! No, no, no, that's NOT clotted cream!!!), but the very simple recipe I have for making a reasonable clotted cream substitute (since it's hard to find in the U.S.) is to take good quality heavy whipping cream and boil it in the microwave, by cupful, until the volume is decreased by 1/3 (I think. Or 2/3? I THINK it's 1/3. Um . . . experiment). Then refrigerate it without disturbing it for a couple of days (well-covered with plastic wrap). Stir it up until smooth and serve. I love it over scones. For all you Enchanted Forest Chronicles fans, I got this recipe courtesy of Patricia C. Wrede. Cheers, Peg From ssturtevant at home.com Thu Jan 18 01:41:19 2001 From: ssturtevant at home.com (ssturtevant at home.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 01:41:19 -0000 Subject: Obsession Message-ID: <945hjv+usmr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9520 In answer to Sue McGee's questions: How many HP books have you given away? As gifts? Or my own copies, that aren't allowed to mix with the other books on the shelf -they have their own spot, a place of honor on the dresser, where I can see them from my bed. None, yet. Loaned? I am trying to initiate the uninitiated, but it is difficult to let the books out of my sight. If you go to parties? I don't, I am home reading HP, of course. Perhaps I should put together an HP party... now there is an idea. If you go to meetings, do you regularly survey the members to ask who has read HP? I ask just about anyone standing still near me. Posting a brilliant post on HP for Grownups and being flooded with laudatory responses? Of course. Do you fantasize about being in the movie? No-see next question Are your fantasies about being at Hogwarts and hanging out with the younger crowd -or teaching? Oh, to be at Hogwarts! I keep dreaming it is real place, because the Muggle world is simply not for me. Maybe my owl got waylaid to California when I was eleven. Or maybe it is being a Pisces, in the world but not quite of it. Winning Jeopardy's HP questions and receiving $50,000? Cash and HP Trivia equals heaven Do you think about raising dragons with Hagrid? No, HP world dragons are a little too unfriendly for my tastes. I like the dragons on Pern better. Do you muse about comforting Lupin or Black in their loneliness? The introduction of Black in PoA about killed me, dark brooding types always appeal to me. It is as if JKR read my mind about creating a grown-up character for me to fantasize about. The true test of HP obsessiveness is how much psychic space occupying? I agree. And by this standard, I am obsessed. I have always enjoyed getting lost in book-worlds. I have major depression (have since I was fifteen) and this world hurts me on a daily basis. I need the magic of my imagination and a good story to distract me at some point in each day. I find myself reading and re-reading, savoring the escape that comes to me page by page in the HP books. It is a rare gift to create a world that feels as real(and vastly preferable) as this one -JKR has done this and for that I am eternally grateful. OT- I tend to be a bit presicent (sp?) as well. It is my gift -it is my curse. (Frank Black, Millenium) In a dream I saw the conversation my husband and I had when he told me he didn't love me, found out about his girlfriend's pregnancy in a dream. I am constantly buffeted by feelings and impressions about people and places and events that come through as fuzzy interpretations. It is exhausting, and it makes me distance myself from others whenever possible (my that sounded like Trelawney, sorry). Sara From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 01:53:32 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 19:53:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] obsession quiz References: Message-ID: <3A664C9C.E0526A6E@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9521 Hi -- Simon wrote: > Come on list mother - tell us how bad it was. You're in here with a bunch of > obsessive people so it cannot be that bad! I found it quite amusing that you > can get 202% on that quiz (involves you being Steve, Jenna, Penny and DrMM - > which may be difficult!). Well, if 202% is the highest one could achieve (even though impossible), my ... ahem..... 96% score doesn't sound *so* bad. I definitely didn't check 96% of the boxes, so I think it was rigged so that being Penny gave me an unnaturally high score. Especially since Question 30 was the same as "Are you Penny?" I don't know how Simon figured out how the questions were weighted but maybe Dr MM could elaborate. Penny From fefe at fazekas.hu Thu Jan 18 02:38:59 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (Fefe ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:38:59 -0000 Subject: Sorry Message-ID: <945l03+tk5d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9522 Hello everyone ! I received a few howlers in the last 24 hours, so maybe i should post some reply. At first, i'd like to state that i wouldn't want to steal even a penny from Joanne Kathleen Rowling. And i didn't think for a moment that this is in any way legal, but i thought that all of you have bought at least one copy of every book, and so no money will be "stolen" from Joanne. Now i remember that one of my friends who spent a year in the USA told me that there live people who DO care about copyright laws, but not in my wildest dream could i imagine THIS... after all, it's true, it's illegal, so i'd like to say sorry. Maybe you don't believe it, but here, in Eastern Europe, no one cares about copyright laws, so i didn't think that you do so much. Of course i won't send this URL anywhere on the net any more, and i'd like to ask you to forgive me. Being a software developer, i also see why copyright laws would be important, but again, in my country, copyright laws are not much less fictious than Harry Potter and Hogwarts. None of my friends have anything on their hard disk that they paid for, and that's not because they are criminals, but because most of the people can not afford to buy software, so illegal copies became morally accepted. (I use legal development software for my work) Again, excuse me, i didn't want to do any harm to anyone. (after all, some of the HP fan sites are illegal too, but most of the people are on their side, me too...) bye Fefe From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 02:32:24 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:32:24 -0000 Subject: Shameless Plug for TiP5... Message-ID: <945kjo+mo88@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9523 ...in which my fic finally earns its R rating... ...and Angelina decides to wash her hands of her husband's brothers, sister, and their significant others' messes for good. (j/k) Here's the URL: Trouble in Paradise 05--Flipping the Script http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=180536 Hope it provides even a millisecond of entertainment. (Note to our newest members: a "shameless plug" is when a fanfic writer brazenly self-promotes his or her own fic on relevant listservers, discussion boards, and websites. I'm not the only offender, either. :-)) --Ebony AKA AngieJ From pkerr06 at attglobal.net Thu Jan 18 03:06:39 2001 From: pkerr06 at attglobal.net (Peg Kerr) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 21:06:39 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's abilities References: <944dq2+qcdj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A665DBF.38DE2F1C@attglobal.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9524 Amy wrote: > Great post, fascinating thoughts, Charmian. > > I just looked back at the sermon I gave last month in which HP was > just an example--I was talking about the power of stories to tell the > truth through myth, fabrication, metaphor...in short, "lies" Two of my favorite lines: "Myths are lies, though lies breathed in silver" [C.S. Lewis] "No. They are true." [J.R.R. Tolkien. --this two line exchange was reported in Humphrey Carpenter's _Tolkien: A Biography_ about the conversation which eventually led to C.S. Lewis' conversion to Christianity.] and "Oh, call it a lie if you like. But a lie is a sort of myth. And a myth is a sort of truth . . . " Edmund Rostand, _Cyrano de Bergerac_. From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 18 01:57:17 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 20:57:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession quiz Message-ID: <200101180314.f0I3EdC28714@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9525 Wow, I am 93% obsessed. I *am* afraid... Kathy From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 03:12:14 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:12:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups]Character Sketch - The Potters References: <3A53EB8E.58878953@alumni.upenn.edu> <3A643958.16C0442F@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <01e401c080fc$76ec85a0$e446d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9526 Ok just now catching up to this thread...didn't realize I was mentioned by name! Spent too much time trying to work yesterday...silly me. Left about 50 some odd messages in my in box...serves me right to let this group slide! ----- Original Message ----- From: "heidi" > > 2. Is James Sexy? (Food for thought: Nobody on this list has ever > discussed whether James is sexy, even though there has been much > discussion stating that his friends Sirius Black and Remus Lupin are > (right, Carole?). Oooo can we start a Sirius is sexy thread again! This is an interesting point (the question of whether James is sexy...its also interesting that Sirius is definitely sexy, but thats not what this thread is about... yet). My guess is that he (James) was very attractive. Smart, atheletic, talented, and seems like a very courageous and generally a good guy. He did save Snape from Lupin after all. Plus he looks like Harry, what's there not to love about that. Seems like we should all be swooning over this guy. But he is fated to marry Lily and then die...which doesn't give people much space to form fantasies. >On the PoU list, it has been stated that nobody ever > seems to have a crush on James. Carole Estes and Cassandra Claire said > there that the "only thing worse than a crush on a fictional guy is a > crush on a dead, married fictional guy."). With a non-dead unmarried guy like Sirius you are free to fantasize without having to worry about adultery or necrophilia for that matter. Trying to keep up with all these interesting threads. carole From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 18 03:52:34 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 03:52:34 -0000 Subject: more fun quiz questions In-Reply-To: <9439c9+i5hn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <945pa2+r6hi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9527 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > Here's a few nitpicky notes on the questions: > > > > > In the PS/SS, a friend of Dudley's goes with Dudley, Vernon, > Petunia and > > Harry to the zoo. What was his name and what was his usual > practice? And > > where was the snake from? > > Note that this was NOT the London zoo, as someone's response seemed > to suggest. When Harry goes to Diagon Alley with Hagrid, it is stated > that he'd never been to London before, so he must have gone to some > zoo nearer to home. > > > > > > What is the tavern that leads into Dragon Alley called? > > That's DIAGON Alley, which is a play on words: "diagonally". > > > > > > What was the name of the wizard who bowed to Harry in the street > before > > Harry knew he was a wizard? > > Daedelus Diggle bowed to him in a shop, not in the street. (Aunt > Petunia immediately hurried Harry out of the shop without buying > anything). > > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Thanks, Steve! I'm doing them off the top of my head, so I need a details oriented person to edit them. I appreciate it. Susan From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 03:29:37 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:29:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New Member References: <20010117211704.28415.qmail@web1703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01fb01c080fe$e3e72a00$e446d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9528 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amber Gazdic" > Hi everyone! Welcome Amber and all you new guys..its exciting getting new blood, which leads to new ideas and new threads and many more messages everyday! : ) > I have since read all four Harry Potter books, and > look forward to seeing the movie. My floor mates in > residence have chuckled at what I am reading....yet > they are all interested in borrowing them. lol. Mwahahahahaha...I think we all do a bit of prostelitizing whenever we get the chance. > > About the movie....I read that Alan Rickman is going > to be part of it. He is one of my favourite actors, > and that just makes me want to see the movie even > more. Does anyone know what role he will be playing? > For some reason I can see him as Snape... Yes, Rickman has been cast as Snape....You can just see him in "Sheriff of Nottingham" mode. carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 03:36:41 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:36:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dave Barry for the Goat References: <942leg+ppks@eGroups.com> <009001c0808a$05e352c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> <3A65EC7E.E426035B@texas.net> Message-ID: <020b01c080ff$e09bda20$e446d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9529 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" > Oh, my, you deprived little goat. I refer you (and Penny) to my favorite of his > books, "Babies and Other Hazards of Sex, or How to Create a Tiny Person in Just > Nine Months With Tools You Probably Have Lying Around The House," which was > actually the ONLY book having to do with impending birth that gave me some > perspective instead of scaring me out of my wits. It's hilarious. Although upon > sober reflection I'd leave that layer of road tar out of the crib. > Why do I not have this book!!!! I will go forth and buy it tomorrow and if its good I'll send Penny a copy! > Favorite line: "Babies are born with several instinctive reactions and behavior > patterns that cause them to spend their first several years trying to kill > themselves." Oh my god isn't that the truth!!!! My 20 mo decided it was a grand idea to stand on the kitchen table this evening! ARGH! > > Second favorite: "Your baby will need more care and attention in the first six > months than any other period in his life except the following thirty months." Make that 30 years and I'll believe it! But the first 6 months are brutal....not to scare any of those moms-to-be out there... carole From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 05:00:58 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:00:58 -0600 Subject: Lori, Dancing around the room, YES!!! Message-ID: <000a01c0810b$a78af8e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9530 Finally, I read Chapter 15, and now I am grinning from ear to ear. So many humorous parts (esp. the RHPS bit, lol) that I enjoyed, but also the few scenes that give you a glimpse that it's not over. (trying to edit my remarks to not spoil anything!) Thanks Lori! :) ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 03:41:06 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:41:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) References: <943cbm+1pr9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <021501c08100$7e2dfca0$e446d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9531 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Vander Ark" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 12:59 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) > I imagine a scene something like this. Voldemort and Wormtail are > sitting around the campfire there in Albania, bored, whittling > sticks, passing time. Bertha Jorkins was fun, but that was weeks ago. > > Then Voldemort suddenly sits bolt upright, which isn't easy > considering the little scaly baby thing he is, and Wormtail's > jacknife slips. Voldemort jumps up and says he has an idea and it's a > doozy, oh that Harry Potter is going to pay. Wormtail jumps up, > sucking on his finger and wincing with the pain of the cut he just > gave himself, and says tell me, oh tell me, this'll be great! > > And Voldemort starts telling about the World Cup and the ancient > magic and the Portkeys and the Goblet of Fire and how they're going > to kidnap Harry and everything, and as he talks, Wormtail just stares > at him. When he's finished, the respose is "Okay, all joking aside, > what's your idea really?" > > And ever since that day, Wormtail has been trying to subtly sugges > that maybe the whole thing is just a teensy bit, well, impossible, > and that conversation we hear when he suggests using another person > than Harry (DUH!) is just part of that. > > Maybe when the went to Crouch's and Voldemort got all excited again > and told Barty Jr. his nifty idea, the two, Barty and Wormtail > exchanged "Oh brother what a loony!" looks but didn't dare do > anything about it. > > That's what I think happened. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 03:44:19 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:44:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) References: <943cbm+1pr9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <021901c08100$f0f5d640$e446d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9532 oooops hit the send button before I could just say...This is hilarious...and definitely what happened carole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Vander Ark" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 12:59 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Convolutions of plot (was Re: Crouch / Moody) > I imagine a scene something like this. Voldemort and Wormtail are > sitting around the campfire there in Albania, bored, whittling > sticks, passing time. Bertha Jorkins was fun, but that was weeks ago. > > Then Voldemort suddenly sits bolt upright, which isn't easy > considering the little scaly baby thing he is, and Wormtail's > jacknife slips. Voldemort jumps up and says he has an idea and it's a > doozy, oh that Harry Potter is going to pay. Wormtail jumps up, > sucking on his finger and wincing with the pain of the cut he just > gave himself, and says tell me, oh tell me, this'll be great! > > And Voldemort starts telling about the World Cup and the ancient > magic and the Portkeys and the Goblet of Fire and how they're going > to kidnap Harry and everything, and as he talks, Wormtail just stares > at him. When he's finished, the respose is "Okay, all joking aside, > what's your idea really?" > > And ever since that day, Wormtail has been trying to subtly sugges > that maybe the whole thing is just a teensy bit, well, impossible, > and that conversation we hear when he suggests using another person > than Harry (DUH!) is just part of that. > > Maybe when the went to Crouch's and Voldemort got all excited again > and told Barty Jr. his nifty idea, the two, Barty and Wormtail > exchanged "Oh brother what a loony!" looks but didn't dare do > anything about it. > > That's what I think happened. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From drmm at fuuko.com Thu Jan 18 04:09:35 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:09:35 -0600 Subject: obsession quiz (multiple replies) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010117214726.00a94820@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9533 Penny wrote: < Hardly seems fair to the rest of you ....>> Well....maybe. I actually put that in there before I added the "Are you Penny?" question (you can always not click on one of them though ;)) But in actuality, I'm sure there are other lists and/or IRC channels where people are considered the proponents for a certain ship. For a while I probably was considered the biggest one for the Snape/Lily theory (which I still advocate upon occasion) . . . . I've just stopped advocating it as much ;) So, I don't feel horribly guilty about that ;) Besides, there are over 156 points in all while I only divided it by 100 .... so they can make up for it if they do insane things like # 83. Did you start learning the art of reading tea leaves in case you ever got the chance to take a class taught by Trelawney? and # 84. Did you actually put together your own curriculum for a Defense Against Dark Arts class? (after all, they're always looking for new teachers...) Besides, this is all in fun ;) Jeralyn wrote: <> Ahhh, but you have to admit that the things on this quiz are *much* more obsessive than that other quiz. And they're things that adults on this list are far more likely to do (especially considering that most of them I've seen people on here do) ;) "Simon" wrote: <> You're supposed to take this *honestly* ;) You can also get 162% if you answer all of them but the bonus questions. I had to give more points to certain questions because really, #74 "Have you ever gone around King's Cross station bumping into various walls trying to get to platform 9 3/4?" is much more obsessive than #77 "Have you played a Harry Potter game?" Or so it seems to me :) I debated on counting up all the points (but the last four bonus ones) and dividing by that number . . . but chose not to. That's just me though :) <> Gah! I'll have to change that. When I hand wrote the questions initially I put that in...it must not have made it into the quiz. blech :P And I still think over 30% counts as obsessed ;) DrMM (who had loads of fun doing this) *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Card Captor Sakura From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 18 04:12:34 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 04:12:34 -0000 Subject: obsession quiz In-Reply-To: <3A664C9C.E0526A6E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <945qfi+lf9m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9534 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Simon wrote: > > > Come on list mother - tell us how bad it was. You're in here with a bunch of > > obsessive people so it cannot be that bad! I found it quite amusing that you > > can get 202% on that quiz (involves you being Steve, Jenna, Penny and DrMM - > > which may be difficult!). > > Well, if 202% is the highest one could achieve (even though impossible), my ... > ahem..... 96% score doesn't sound *so* bad. I definitely didn't check > 96% of the boxes, so I think it was rigged so that being Penny gave me an > unnaturally high score. Especially since Question 30 was the same as "Are you > Penny?" I don't know how Simon figured out how the questions were weighted but > maybe Dr MM could elaborate. > > Penny Hey, don't I get extra obsessive credit for reading BOTH PS and SS and BOTH the English and U.S. editions of the books? For listening to BOTH Stephen Fry and Dale? From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 18 04:23:28 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 04:23:28 -0000 Subject: Governor Hodges mentions HP In-Reply-To: <945drb+mhqm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <945r40+a9n8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9535 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > I was thrilled beyond belief that the > Governor of the state which had such an unfounded kefuffle over Harry > in the classrooms mentioned it in an enlightened and positive way. Perhaps we can get you to a similar state of arousal over a Circuit Court's recent banning of Ohio's State Motto (hint: it's not from JKR). Censorship in any form is bad, but we now have in our highly secular nation a court system which is systematically restricting all expressions of X-tian faith, quite in violation of the 1st Amendment's Free Exercise clause. Even the militant athiest Nietzsche declared that "Compared to the Bible, everything else is merely literature." - CMC From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 03:25:10 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 22:25:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Who is Harry Potter? (long) References: <20010117222944.21933.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01f101c080fe$44c3b920$e446d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9536 ----- Original Message ----- From: "heidi tandy" > > Oh, I'm not trying to belittle the sacrifice - I think > that kind of sacrifice is an amazing, honorable and > horrible thing - and I'm not refering to any specific > thing that's been mentioned in the books - i.e. JKR > hasn't said "Person K died in hopes of his sacrifice > saving his cousin J, because he loved J so much but J > didn't survive the Avada Kedavra curse" - it's more > like, in the 10+ years that Voldemort was taking over, > and death eaters were killing people left & right, it > would be improbable that Lily POtter was the first > person to throw her/himself between a Death Eater (or > Voldemort) doing the AK curse, and the intended > victim. > I'm going to second Heidi here in that what she wrote was nearly identical to a post in my draft box. Furthermore I wanted to add that just because it seems that Harry has some extraordinary powers that are not common to the general wizarding population, it in no way diminishes his humanity and what he chooses to do with those powers. The fact that he is lauded as special, yet really just wants to be a normal guy and not cash in on his "fame" attests to his strength of character. Its mentioned that Lily's sacrifice was one protection that was cast on Harry, but doesn't Dumbledore allude to other protections. To bring this back to Amy's original point (I think..it was about 1000 messages ago...) ... If it turns out that JKR gives Harry has special abilities beyond what Lily provided by her sacrifice, the story still hinges on the choices Harry makes with his talents, and that is something we can all relate to whether the special talents are magical or mere mortal stuff like talent with numbers, or writing, or drawing, or law, or whatever. carole From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 18 04:47:43 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 04:47:43 -0000 Subject: more fun quiz questions/my answers In-Reply-To: <5f.f9487b6.2795c186@aol.com> Message-ID: <945shf+h0pn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9537 and apologies to those who found them too easy, I'm just making this up as I go along... Oh, if I were Whoopi Goldberg (who went to the people at Star Trek: The Next Generation and said I want to be in Star Trek TNG, and they said, Oh, gosh, we can't afford you, and she said you don't understand, I want to do this, you don't need to pay me, if I were Whoopi Goldberg I could go to those doing the HP movie and convince them to let me in it!) > > The Knight Bus had a conductor, Stan Shunpike, but what was the name of the > driver? Answer: Ernie Prang, an elderly wizard wearing very thick glasses > > What is the name of the Weasley family owl? Errol > > How many galleons did Arthur Weasley win in the Daily Prophet Draw? 700 > > Name the person most important to Fleur in the GoF...and their exact > relationship... Gabrielle, her sister > > While the Weasley family was in Egypt, where was Hermione? "on holiday in France" according to her note to Harry > > What did Madame Maxine's steeds need to drink? single-malt whiskey > > In the PS/SS, a friend of Dudley's goes with Dudley, Vernon, Petunia and > Harry to the zoo. What was his name and what was his usual practice? And > where was the snake from? Piers Polkiss, a scrawny boy with a face like a rat, was usually the one who held people's arms behind their backs while Dudley hit them Trick question. The boa was born in captivity. He was native to Brazil. > > Aunt Marge's dog chased Harry up a tree. What was the dog's name? (and why > did he do nothing during the night?) Ripper. Harry accidentally stepped on Ripper's tail. The dog doing nothing in the night is a Sherlock Holmes reference. > > What is Uncle Vernons drill making company called? Grunnings > > What is the tavern that leads into Diagon Alley (sorry about the typo) called? The Leaky Cauldron, a famous place > > What was the name of the wizard who bowed to Harry in the street before > Harry knew he was a wizard? Dedalus Diggle bowed to Harry in the SHOP...NOT the street > > Who was the prime suspect for setting off fireworks upon the demise of Lord > Voldemort? We only know who Professor McGonagall suspects... "Shooting stars down in Kent --I'll bet that was Dedalus Diggle. He never had much sense." > > There was a substitute teacher for Professor Hagrid while he was reeling > under the attacks > of Rita Skeeter? Name? And what did the class learn about? Grubbly-Plank teaches them about unicorns > > Dumbledore likes to listen to chamber music in his spare time and what else > (according to the card)? Ten pin bowling > > What are Bill Weasley's boots made from? > > Dragon hide (NOT Diagon hide) From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 04:27:30 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:27:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What is a shipper? References: <200101161559.AA524026844@paonline.com> <005901c08071$a0fd79c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <024801c08106$f9ac9d40$e446d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9538 I know this is an old message...but just had to respond...while stiffing giggles even though I've read this message twice! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aberforth's Goat" > Welcome to the club Steve! > > A shipper is a person with one or more twisted hormonal obsessions > concerning any given combination of those sweet children in HP. There are, > for instance, Ron - Hermione shippers, Hermione - Harry shippers, Ron - > Harry shippers, Snape - Draco shippers, even Sirius - Ginny shippers. A word > to the wise: never mess with shippers. Most of them are armed (and fingered, > too) and arguing with any of them could be dangerous to your sanity. As Penny was saying, most shippers think they all should grow up a lot befoer getting romantically entangled...I myself have only fantasized about the adults in the books (well one particular adult....cough...cough...did that cough sound like Sirius?) > > The word comes from relation-"ship" and is common in the weird, wild world > of fanfiction, where horribly addicted fiction junkies add their own > endings, continuations, sequels, prequels, variant readings, textual > emendations, poems, songs and dance routines to their favorite stories. Like > most addictions, it starts with relatively harmless stuff--joining this > club, for instance. After a while, you get curious and take a surreptitious > squint at one of the fanfics. It's kind of fun. You giggle a lot. You've > taken your first hit. > > Within a few weeks you're living in a surreal cloud of tripped out acronyms > like PoU, DD, DS, ASA, and TSTNE. People who fail to get professional > therapy often end up having to deal up fiction of their own to support their > habits. And also are compelled to promote their favorites to other addicts. Its a slippery slope. You start with a peak at PoU...Man, that was good...almost as satisfying as another JKR book...well if that was so good, maybe I should just see about some of the others people are talking about. Its a long wait until book #5 need something Harry to fill the void! > > But it's so much fun ... > Isn't it though! carole for the newbies...fanfiction mentioned herein PoU = Paradigm of Uncertainty DD = Draco Dormiens DS = Draco Sinister ASA = A Sirius Affair TSTNE = The Show That Never Ends all can be found here: http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty some of the best HP fanfic on the net (how's that for a shameless plug coming from one of the authors of ASA) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 04:47:57 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 04:47:57 -0000 Subject: Copyright/Any non-US lawyers here? (sort of OT) Message-ID: <011201c08109$e97324a0$1d3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9539 I know we have a couple of US lawyers active in this group (Penny and Heidi), but I was wondering if there are any UK or other non-US lawyers among our 700+ [gasp] membership, who might advise us on the legal matters outside the US? I know Nick Mitchell has some direct experience with Warner Brothers over website domain names. My own, limited experience relates to library photocopying and copyright clearance on published research, and the fact that, independently of that, I was almost sued for a trademark infringement a few years ago (it was an odd case; I won't bore you with the details). I also have several friends working for the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society/Performing Rights Society, so I have indirect knowledge of music copyright and licensing. >From those experiences, I get the impression that the UK is by no means slack on copyright issues, but I know that there are loopholes when it comes to new technology. Re electronic versions of books and the storage thereof, I would imagine that everything Penny and Heidi have said about the US legal position would also apply in the UK (especially as, in the case in question, JKR is a UK citizen), but I'd be interested to hear from an expert. Also (and Heidi may know the answer to this), from US perspective, is the location of a website important in identifying a breach of the law? For example, if information were stored at a xxxx.co.uk location, could US law be brought to bear? How far do an author's rights extend in terms of something like the internet? Feel free to e-mail me offlist on this. Thanks. Neil Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 05:14:27 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 05:14:27 -0000 Subject: DrMM's obsession quiz - and a solution Message-ID: <016101c0810d$9c882560$1d3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9540 I feel passably sane. I'm only 70% obsessed! I'll just remind anyone with 90+% scores that the Flying Ford Clinic has a special offer on until March. Only 13 Galleons for a three week incarceration in the Azkaban wing, a mere 4 Galleons for an intensive session in the Dursley 'cupboard under the stairs' isolation chamber or a paltry 3 Knuts for a complete Memory Charm brainwipe and free copy of Danielle Steel's latest potboiler. I use a very safe form of aversion therapy, confronting my 'guests' with such items as stuffed owls, warm leather trousers and copies of the New York Times' Best Seller List. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Thu Jan 18 05:27:30 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:27:30 EST Subject: more easy fun quiz questions off the top of my head Message-ID: <9d.100a1316.2797d8c2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9541 Name one book by Gilderoy Lockhart. For extra credit, name two. What kind of broomstick did Ron Weasley own? In CoS at Christmas, Fred bewitched Percy's prefect badge to say? What did the twins say the flags on the car carrying Percy would say (HB for???? NOT head boy) The polyjuice potion turned Harry and Ron into Crabbe and Goyle. What was the name of the student who Hermione had planned to turn into? And speaking of Crabbe and Goyle, what were their first names (the students). What is the name of the wizard bank? What is the name of the goblin who first conducts Harry and Hagrid down to the vaults during Harry's first visit to the bank? What country was Charlie in when Ron and Harry got the idea to send Norbert to them? On the train to Hogwarts, when Harry and Ron meet, Ron tried to do a spell...what did that spell seek to accomplish? The sweet Slytherins tried to masquerade as Dementors so that Harry would be defeated at Quidditch. Who was the seeker Harry was playing against at that time? What was the name of the very old wizard who was wearing a long flowery nightgown at the World Cup (a ministry wizard was desperatley trying to persuade him to wear pinstriped trousers). This man liked a healthy breeze around his privates. The villagers of what village called it the Riddle House? And what was the name of the Old Muggle who was killed by Voldemort........ Susan McGee Schlobin at aol.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 06:28:21 2001 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:28:21 -0000 Subject: DrMM's obsession quiz - and a solution In-Reply-To: <016101c0810d$9c882560$1d3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <9462e5+rvdl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9542 Neil wrote: (ouch!) > I use a very safe form of aversion therapy, confronting my 'guests' with such items as stuffed owls, warm leather trousers and copies of the New York Times' Best Seller List. > > Neil Uh, Neil? Warm Leather Trousers? ;) Jen (who remembers oh-so-long-ago when she would have said "warm leather pants" and Neil would have gotten ideas in his head) From knightma at sabc.co.za Thu Jan 18 06:52:57 2001 From: knightma at sabc.co.za (knightma at sabc.co.za) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 06:52:57 -0000 Subject: more easy fun quiz questions off the top of my head In-Reply-To: <9d.100a1316.2797d8c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <9463s9+ogh6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9543 Newbie de-lurking for a moment > Name one book by Gilderoy Lockhart. For extra credit, name two. Magical Me, Voyages with Vampires > What kind of broomstick did Ron Weasley own? Comet 260 > In CoS at Christmas, Fred bewitched Percy's prefect badge to say? BigHead Boy > What did the twins say the flags on the car carrying Percy would say (HB > for???? NOT head boy) ?? > The polyjuice potion turned Harry and Ron into Crabbe and Goyle. > What was the name of the student who Hermione had planned to turn into? Millicent Bulstrode > And speaking of Crabbe and Goyle, what were their first names (the students). Vincent Crabbe > What is the name of the wizard bank? Gringotts > What is the name of the goblin who first conducts Harry and Hagrid down to > the vaults during Harry's first visit to the bank? Griphook > What country was Charlie in when Ron and Harry got the idea to send Norbert > to them? Romania > On the train to Hogwarts, when Harry and Ron meet, Ron tried to do a > spell...what did that spell seek to accomplish? Turn Scabbers Yellow. For triple credit: "Sunshine, daisies, butter mellow, turn this stupid fat rat yellow" > The sweet Slytherins tried to masquerade as Dementors so that Harry would be > defeated at Quidditch. Who was the seeker Harry was playing against at that > time? Cedric Diggory > What was the name of the very old wizard who was wearing a long flowery > nightgown at the World Cup (a ministry wizard was desperately trying to > persuade him to wear pinstriped trousers). This man liked a healthy breeze > around his privates. Archie > The villagers of what village called it the Riddle House? I hate that chapter, and never re-read it, sorry > And what was the name of the Old Muggle who was killed by Voldemort........ Frank ? Not bad for fisrt thing in the morning at work, don't you think? From StephBecvar at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 06:56:52 2001 From: StephBecvar at hotmail.com (Stephanie Becvar) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 00:56:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] Quidditch/Lupin/French Version Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9544 Wow, 326 messages, I am going to have to stop going to class to keep up OK...on to business, and I apologize for the randomness. Unfortunately I have been so busy with thesis papers and physics problems and calculus problems up the wazoo, it is hard for me to keep up, and for me to get to talk in small amounts. 1) For my brithday I received the Quidditch board game, and as said before it was VERY VERY hard to do, even though i had 4 people. It was a gift from my mother to try and disuade me from "Backyard Quidditch". Unfortunately, it is not nearly as much fun. In the rain it is great, though much more dangerous...slippery trampoline...LOTS of mud.... 2) My band class has a new student instructor. Guess what his name is....Mr. Moony!! His first name is Robert, so it is R. Moony. My friends in band whom have read the HP books all laughed when he told us. He looks a LOT like I pictured Lupin too, only younger, but rather than dressing in tattered robes, he dresses strangely, you know in those weird sweaters that guys wore back in the 80's?? Anyways, I thought it was great 3) I have a question for any of you who have read the French version of HP. I love this cover, bc they are wearing hats, but where is Harry's scar? It isnt on the picture in the back either, and i was wondering if anyone knew a reason as to why not. Stephanie Who is off to expound upon Ayn Rand's use of foreshadowing and symbolism in The Fountainhead...not NEARLY as much fun as the HP paper i wrote last semester. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Jan 18 07:22:32 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:22:32 -0000 Subject: Sheryll: Ordering the UK versions from Chapters Message-ID: <9465jo+pm3n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9545 Hi Sheryll. I know I just posted this the other day (yesterday?), but I wanted to ask if you would confirm for me-- are the UK versions that are available in Canada published by Rainbow something or other? If yes, then I'm breathing a sigh of relief. To anyone considering ordering the UK versions from Amazon UK, try Chapters. I purchased the box set of hardcover books for just under $48, far less than the $75 others are reporting from Amaz. UK. Here's the URL for Chapters: http://www.chapters.ca/ I searched "Harry Potter", and plenty of items came up. Kelley From squeakinby at email.com Thu Jan 18 07:26:30 2001 From: squeakinby at email.com (Barbara Morgenroth) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 02:26:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hogwarts population Message-ID: <384682602.979802790081.JavaMail.root@web168-ec.mail.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9546 Sorry if this has been asked before. How many students are attending Hogwarts? How many tables are in the Great Hall? It always sounds like just 4 plus the teachers' table. Robin ----------------------------------------------- FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com From vderark at bccs.org Thu Jan 18 07:28:38 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:28:38 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz Message-ID: <9465v6+mb30@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9547 Okay, I took the quiz. I'm at 73%. That's not all that high. And I thought you people had the measure of me... Of course, I make a point not to read any fanfic because I need to keep the canon version of things in my head. And I'm not a shipper of any variety. That excluded me from quite a few questions. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From vderark at bccs.org Thu Jan 18 07:35:08 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:35:08 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <384682602.979802790081.JavaMail.root@web168-ec.mail.com> Message-ID: <9466bc+hj2v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9548 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Barbara Morgenroth wrote: > Sorry if this has been asked before. It has, actually. And it's been discussed a lot. And we're still not sure. > > How many students are attending Hogwarts? JKR says about a thousand. Some of us (myself included) have the audacity to think she's wrong ;) > > How many tables are in the Great Hall? It always sounds like just 4 plus > the teachers' table. Yep, there are four, plus the teacher's table. Slytherin is nearest the door, then Ravenclaw, then Hufflepuff, then Gryffindor. In case you're curious, the teachers' table is almost certainly on the left as you come in, with a door behind it and almost to the far wall that leads to a smaller chamber with a fireplace and a lot of paintings, including one of the Fat Lady's friend Violet. Oh, and there are only FOUR tables in the kitchens. So where does the food come from that goes up to the teachers' table? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potte Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From john at walton.to Thu Jan 18 07:48:00 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:48:00 +0000 Subject: The Obsession Quiz/John's back/Plug for Ebony's fic In-Reply-To: <9462e5+rvdl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9549 Hi all, ::guilty look:: I only got 53%. That's the lowest I've scored on a test since I was 10! Oh, and I'm back :) Had a great holiday, did some great brainstorming for the Song of Time, and arrived back to the latest instalment of Ebony's brill Trouble In Paradise (Chapter 5). Go read! --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George W.?Bush will make abortion illegal because "it's not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet."-Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000 ======================================== From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 07:24:15 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:24:15 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: DrMM's obsession quiz - and a solution References: <9462e5+rvdl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002a01c0811f$aa35dd80$063570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9550 I wrote: "I use a very safe form of aversion therapy, confronting my 'guests' with such items as stuffed owls, warm leather trousers and copies of the New York Times' Best Seller List." "Jen said: Uh, Neil? Warm Leather Trousers? ;) Jen (who remembers oh-so-long-ago when she would have said "warm leather pants" and Neil would have gotten ideas in his head)" *** The ideas are still there, Jen! That reference is to a fanfic vision of Draco Malfoy in leather trousers. I think Cassie originated this (Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister still being on my 'next up' reading list) and I'd say it's a fair marker of absorption in the world of HP fanfic to believe that Draco he really *ought* to be dressing that way. We always have such fun in this group when we get onto the subject of vests, pants, jumpers or suspenders... or socks ;) Apologies to our newest members, who are collectively scratching their heads at this moment. It will all make sense eventually... Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Thu Jan 18 08:18:09 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:18:09 -0000 Subject: wondering about fanfics, one last clotted cream question.... Message-ID: <9468s1+98k7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9551 Okay, one last question about clotted cream: for some reason, I was under the impression that it's sweet, but from what people have said that seems to be incorrect. So, it's not sweet, and is its flavor anything like that of cream cheese? Now, about fanfics: I've been thinking very often lately, how nice it would be to have the 'best of' HP fanfics compiled as a paperback book. I know absolutely nothing about the feasibility of this or what it would entail. Can anyone onlist comment on this? The most I can offer is that I would buy at least one copy (of each volume ), maybe two... ;o] Kelley From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 08:35:11 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael_pou at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:35:11 -0000 Subject: double shippers (was: Wand Order Publicity; Obsession Quiz) In-Reply-To: <3A65F29E.63DDDCD8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9469rv+q2ng@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9552 Penny wrote: "(other than the fact that I'm falsely accused of writing H/H fanfic -- ). Meant to add this to my reply on that one this morning -- I will eventually write H/H fanfic, and that might mean that I'm the only (???) fanfic writer who could claim to write fanfic devoted to more than one ship since ASA is H/G by necessity. *Are* there any fanfic writers who branch out & write about more than one ship? Seems like most of us are pretty well firmly committed to just one ship preference." tsk... tsk... tsk... "the only fanfic writer ... more than one ship" - You may be the *best* fanfic writer to do so, but certainly not the *only* one. When i started out with the "Krum Do I Love?" series, my mind was set on putting *all* possible ships in it. (as the name suggests). Meanwhile, i relaxed a bit, and the strongest candidates to finish the fic as a couple are Krum/Cho, Ginny/Lee and either H/H or H/D, but it does contain Harry/Ginny, Hermione/Krum and indications towards Ron/Hermione, Ron/Harry and Draco/Harry. Did i forget someone? Oh, yes, Fred and George are with Angelica and Katie, of course. Lol. Anyway, since this fic rotates around H/H and H/D, it is in total contradiction to my first, non-romantic, but still H/G fic, where my heart really is. yael *duck under her desk, waiting for the flames shower to subside* From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 22:02:03 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:02:03 +0100 Subject: Vests, pants, jumpers, suspenders and ... socks References: <9462e5+rvdl@eGroups.com> <002a01c0811f$aa35dd80$063570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <01e001c0819a$4b4c1d40$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9553 Dr. F.F. Anglia, liscenced Aversion Therapist, mentioned, > We always have such fun in this group when we get onto the subject of vests, > pants, jumpers or suspenders... or socks ;) > > Apologies to our newest members, who are collectively scratching their heads > at this moment. It will all make sense eventually... I know some lovely pants & suspenders stories (particularly one concerning my unfortunate father and a lot of english ladies), but I didn't know there was anything exciting about vests. Do you UK lot have vested interests in them? As for socks ... I suppose I should have mentioned earlier that are also few Dumbledore - Hosiery shippers in our midst. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who just realized why people warned him against studying psychiatry "since everybody know the shrinks are wieder than the loonies.") _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 22:36:11 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:36:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsessiveness quiz References: <9465v6+mb30@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01f201c0819f$13a2e680$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9554 > Okay, I took the quiz. I'm at 73%. That's not all that high. And I > thought you people had the measure of me... You know Steve, an addiction *really* gets dangerous when the patient starts repressing parts of his memory and unconsciously changing autobiographical details to keep from facing the problem. It sounds like the Flying Ford Clinic is going to have to hire a few memory recovery specialists. But I expect they'll be glad to offer you a high volume discount on their normal session price ... > Of course, I make a point not to read any fanfic because I need to > keep the canon version of things in my head. Oh common, Stevey, don't be scaredy cat--try it, you'll like it! Besides, it makes you feel gooood, and I've got your first little packet right here. You can have it for free. (Actually, the good fanfics really are good and get you to think about Jo's world in whole new ways!) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, now taking bets on how long it'll be before the Harry Potter Lexicon is renamed www.hot-hermione-pix.com.) P.S. Me? No way am I obsessed! I only got a 63%. _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 11:44:01 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:44:01 -0000 Subject: Obsession quiz Message-ID: <946ku1+1rh7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9555 According to DrMM, I'm 47% obsessed with Harry Potter. It feels like more. I guess I should be grateful to learn I could be more obsessed. Do I get extra points if I fantasize not about meeting JKR, but about meeting the characters? One point for each? Ten points if I imagine the entire conversation we would have if I happened to see Harry & Hermione sitting across from me on the subway? (I'll have you know I would be very cool about the scar.) Not admitting to actually having done this, Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 11:56:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:56:32 -0000 Subject: Quidditch/Lupin/French Version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <946llg+h9me@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9556 > 2) My band class has a new student instructor. Guess what his name is....Mr. > Moony!! His first name is Robert, so it is R. Moony. My friends in band > whom have read the HP books all laughed when he told us. He looks a LOT > like I pictured Lupin too, only younger, but rather than dressing in > tattered robes, he dresses strangely, you know in those weird sweaters that > guys wore back in the 80's?? Anyways, I thought it was great !! The full moon is February 8. Tell us if he disappears for the day. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 11:58:49 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:58:49 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: <9465v6+mb30@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <946lpp+h9i4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9557 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > Okay, I took the quiz. I'm at 73%. That's not all that high. And I > thought you people had the measure of me... > > Of course, I make a point not to read any fanfic because I need to > keep the canon version of things in my head. Sounds like a question to add to the quiz: Do you make a point not to read any fanfic because you need to keep the canon version of things in your head? Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 12:05:21 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:05:21 -0000 Subject: Shipping personality test In-Reply-To: <9469rv+q2ng@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <946m61+n59a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9558 Yael wrote: > Meanwhile, i relaxed a bit, and the strongest candidates to finish > the fic as a couple are Krum/Cho, Ginny/Lee and either H/H or H/D, > but it does contain Harry/Ginny, Hermione/Krum and indications > towards Ron/Hermione, Ron/Harry and Draco/Harry. Did i forget > someone? Oh, yes, Fred and George are with Angelica and Katie, of > course. It strikes me that you could devise a personality test in which shipping leanings reveal deep elements of one's character. The same way we all know that you can tell what kind of person you are by which Beatle you like best. John with a bit of George, Amy Z ---------------------------- 2 more days 'til Bush redux ---------------------------- (that's in honor of John's return--hi John!) From rhodhry at yahoo.no Thu Jan 18 12:42:11 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:42:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: more easy fun quiz questions off the top of my head Message-ID: <20010118124211.4569.qmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9559 Just pitching in on the blanks here. --- knightma at sabc.co.za wrote: > Subject: Re: more easy fun quiz questions off the top of my head > [snip] > > What did the twins say the flags on the car carrying Percy would > say (HB > > for???? NOT head boy) > ?? Humonguous Bighead [snip] > > And speaking of Crabbe and Goyle, what were their first names (the > students). > Vincent Crabbe and Gregory Goyle [snip] > > The sweet Slytherins tried to masquerade as Dementors so that Harry > would be > > defeated at Quidditch. Who was the seeker Harry was playing against > at that > > time? > Cedric Diggory No, it was Cho Chang of Ravenclaw. When Harry faced Cedric, it was *real* dementors, with the result that Gryffindor *did* loose. When the Slytherins (who I am certain would object to being called "sweet") were masquerading, Harry sent them reeling with a particularly potent Patronus. [snip] > > The villagers of what village called it the Riddle House? > I hate that chapter, and never re-read it, sorry Little Hangleton > > And what was the name of the Old Muggle who was killed by > Voldemort........ > Frank ? Last name Bryce > Not bad for fisrt thing in the morning at work, don't you think? ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jan 18 12:56:42 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (James Flanagan) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:56:42 -0500 Subject: International Editions FAQ Message-ID: <001f01c0814e$1b27cfc0$0100a8c0@mshome.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9560 I'm starting on the international editions FAQ, so I'd like help from anyone who has information on this subject. I'm interested in both the cover art and the translations. Here are the types of questions that I'd like to address: What are the best Web sites with info about international editions? Where can you order books in exotic languages? (any language other than English, Spanish, French & German) In what languages have different versions been published? (e.g., English - British/American; Spanish - European Castilian / Latin American Castilian / Catalan; Chinese - PRP/Taiwan, etc.) What are the main differences between versions in the "same" language? Which textual errors are commonly carried through to the translations? - ancestor/descendent of Slytherin (e.g., corrected in the French) - wand order (incorrect in the French) - others? What significant changes or errors have been introduced in the translations. (e.g., PRP translations change flying broomsticks into flying roller skates) Why isn't Harry wearing glasses on the Danish covers? Please message me on- or off-list if you have any special knowledge about this subject. Thanks, -Jim Flanagan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alw at wilsonllp.com Thu Jan 18 13:35:13 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 08:35:13 -0500 Subject: Speaking of copyrights... Message-ID: <009001c08153$7c5f6870$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 9561 With all the recent discussion about copyrights, I've got another question that's been buzzing around in my head since I joined the HP fandom. I know a lot of you are fanfic writers out there...so maybe someone can fill me in. In the TV fandom world, at least all the ones I've heard about, fanfic is one of those things that everyone knows is out there, but yet don't *tell* TPTB (that's The Powers That Be, aka producers, studios, etc) about it. Meaning, they (TBTB) know it's out there and they know that it's technically an infringement on their rights, but as long as someone doesn't tell them outright, they can always deny any knowledge. This becomes very useful when a fan sues them because the fan thinks that they got a story idea from a fanfic story published on the web - which has happened in the past. So...here's my question...is it just different in the book fandom world? I was completely floored when I saw that fanfiction was mentioned in the merchandise guide and I seem to recall fanfic being mentioned in an article or two, but I could be wrong about that. Just curious... Amy (the other one...as usual, there are lots of Amy's on the list) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 13:41:28 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:41:28 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] International Editions FAQ References: <001f01c0814e$1b27cfc0$0100a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9562 ----- Original Message ----- From: James Flanagan Where can you order books in exotic languages? (any language other than English, Spanish, French & German) You can order the Hebrew books in either www.mitos.co.il or www.steimatzky.co.il (the Israeli publisher) the catch is, you need a Hebrew search string to get to them ("???? ????"). I tried to save the ASP after the search, but the sites don't allow it. If you need, i can mail you a picture of the sites after the search. Which textual errors are commonly carried through to the translations? - ancestor/descendent of Slytherin (e.g., corrected in the French) - wand order (incorrect in the French) - others? I'm sorry. Can't bring myself to read the Hebrew translation. It's too horrible. But if you mail me a list of errors and their approximate locations, i can go into a close by book store and look for them (only the first three books were published in Hebrew so far, so no wand order error to check). Any other question you have about the Hebrew edition, I'll happily answer. yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 13:50:03 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 07:50:03 -0600 Subject: Censorship & the First Amendment (OT) References: <945r40+a9n8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A66F48B.8A32DA51@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9563 Hi -- Caius Marcius wrote: > Perhaps we can get you to a similar state of arousal over a Circuit > Court's recent banning of Ohio's State Motto (hint: it's not from JKR). > Censorship in any form is bad, but we now have in our highly secular > nation a court system which is systematically restricting all > expressions of X-tian faith, quite in violation of the 1st Amendment's > Free Exercise clause. Ahem. A gentle reminder that while Trina's message that you are replying to is on-topic, your response has veered very off-topic. Please remember to include the (OT) in your subject heading. I don't remember constitutional law all that well from law school -- probably not well enough to engage in a full-scale debate with you Caius. But, I might point out that you seem to conveniently forgotten to include the entire wording of that clause of the First Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." I might also suggest that there is a constitutional difference between "prohibiting" free exercise of religious beliefs and placing necessary restrictions on the exercise of religion (particularly restrictions on exercise of religion in public fora such as public schools). The First Amendment rights are not *absolute* (nor are they susceptible to one rigid interpretation). IMO, the issue is considerably more complex than you suggest (I know, I know -- in your mind, this group is overwhelmingly composed of a bunch of weird wild-eyed liberals who will unfairly derogate the religious fundamentalists at every turn). But, *I* would *hardly* characterize the current composition of the Supreme Court as being anti-Christian or unsympathetic to the pet causes of the religious right. I'd also take issue that our nation can be characterized as "secular" (it may no longer be composed of a majority of practicing Christians but that doesn't mean it's "secular"). But, this is not the forum for this debate in any case. If you want to reply, be sure to put the OT warning in your subject heading (or email me off-list -- but again, I don't have the time at present to dredge up old con law notebooks or review the last 10 years of constitutional caselaw to debate in earnest). Penny From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 04:33:17 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 23:33:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] shippers/URL/mystery? References: Message-ID: <000401c08151$3e7409a0$f641d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9564 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Owens" > I am completely amused (in the good way!) by the shippers' debates, but > would like to suggest, as a devil's advocate, that it's more fun not to > know. Which is more fun to watch: a soap opera, where everything takes place > on the surface, and everyone is always getting it on, or the X-Files, where > nothing ever, ever happened? I think I prefer *not* to know, thereby > maintaining the potential of all sorts of interesting 'ships. But OTOH I am > gratified to know that I'm not alone in finding Sirus intriguing... ;) > > > Emily Most of the strong shippers here are converts from the world of fanfic (not all...see Mike gray's humorous post on shipping...its dead on...). A lot of fanfic shippiness is soapish but there are those fics that are far, far from it. C'mon...give it a try...just a peek....just to see...we know you want to.... just a message from your friendly neighborhood fanfic junkie / pusher. (I'm just pushing to support my habit.... carole (and a Siriusaholic as well...) From aichambaye at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 14:26:07 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:26:07 -0000 Subject: Hi, I'm New.... Message-ID: <946udv+sk9b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9565 Hello, My name is Heather and I am new to this board. I wanted to say Hi to everyone! It's rather obvious that I'm not going to be able to "catch up" onthe posts, since there are 9-some-odd thousand of them. So on to the confession. I am a Harry Potter addict. I've got all the books, a wall calendar, a desk calendar, the trivia game, and a tapestry throw of the journey to Hogwarts. I'd have MORE stuff but I am a struggling (ie., broke) graduate student and the University of North Carolina doesn't pay very well! I am HAPPY that I am not the only adult Harry Potter fanatic... Well, I should also say that I don't have anyone with whom to play the trivia game, or discuss houses, spells, or 'ships. I think, myself, that if I was a witch, I'd be in Ravenclaw -- afterall, I'm doing a PhD. But anyway... My other major obsession is a book series called Trixie Belden. If you know this series (or remember it, as it is out-of-print), you should be noticing a trend... children's books with mysteries! Finally: What's the news on book 5? I can't find anything reliable. Thanks and see you around the board. Heather From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 14:30:41 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:30:41 -0000 Subject: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! Message-ID: <946umh+tdee@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9566 No, no, no, no! This cannot be allowed. Harry Potter cannot be used as a political tool! Here is a quote from that paragon of journalistic detatchment, the Oxford Student (COUGH COUGH - Simon will know what I mean): "The Labour Party is said to consider that having Harry Potter on their election posters could win them the election." For those not familiar with UK politics, the Labour Party has been in power since 1997 (hence the imminent parliamentary election) and since then has promoted a nauseatingly PC Cool Brittania full of purple cafes, strange modern art and political spin-doctoring. How dare they even consider using Harry Potter to promote themselves! Keith (who is VERY cynical about politics in general) From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 14:02:10 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:02:10 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Speaking of copyrights... References: <009001c08153$7c5f6870$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <007901c08157$419203c0$f641d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9567 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy" > So...here's my question...is it just different in the book fandom world? I was completely floored when I saw that fanfiction was mentioned in the merchandise guide and I seem to recall fanfic being mentioned in an article or two, but I could be wrong about that. > > Just curious... > > Amy (the other one...as usual, there are lots of Amy's on the list) >From what I've been told (see Heidi for the expert...and she's writing fanfic...) it has to do with making money off the writing. Those of us fanfic writers are doing it just for pleasure and the entertainment of others (well there are ulterior motives as well). We don't ever dream about making money off any of our work. We don't charge for people reading our work and most of us place some sort of disclaimer at the top of the fic stating the characters used in the fic are (mostly) not our own...although some of us do lay claim to original characters. We mainly get paid in reviews and the chance to steer the characters according to our own personal vision. This is why you'll probably never see (as someone suggested a couple of posts ago) a paperback version of the best of HP fanfics. It would get very complicated very quickly regarding who got to profit from an endeavor....plus it could never be just one book. PoU alone is 15 chapters, DD and DS could each be a book, and ASA is headed that direction as well... I've printed out most of my favorites and they sit in three ring binders on my bookcase. Hope Penny or Heidi states this more concisely and includes concepts I missed. carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 18 14:04:35 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:04:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipping personality test References: <946m61+n59a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008101c08157$97c54680$f641d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9568 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy " > It strikes me that you could devise a personality test in which > shipping leanings reveal deep elements of one's character. The > same way we all know that you can tell what kind of person you are by > which Beatle you like best. > > John with a bit of George, > Amy Z Paul.....could never get over those big brown eyes....sigh... carole PS I agree your ship could speak volumes about you. From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 18 14:47:05 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 18 Jan 2001 06:47:05 -0800 Subject: Plug for Ebony's fic Message-ID: <20010118144705.1481.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9569 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aichambaye at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 14:51:38 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:51:38 -0000 Subject: Obsession Quiz? Message-ID: <946vtq+bnel@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9570 Hi, the newbie again. Can anyone tell me where to find the obsession quiz? From alw at wilsonllp.com Thu Jan 18 15:02:32 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 10:02:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Speaking of copyrights...(may be venturing into OT) References: <009001c08153$7c5f6870$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> <007901c08157$419203c0$f641d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00c401c0815f$af43b460$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 9571 Carol mentioned paperback versions of fanfic... those aren't unheard of...they're called fanzines and they've been around since at least Star Trek. They're pretty much an underground movement, although they do have "conventions" solely for fanzines. This is where I totally don't understand the whole fanfic/disclaimer/copyrights issues. We had a huge discussion on one of the lists I'm on in another fandom and pretty much what it came down to was that the disclaimers mean nothing, fanfiction has existed for decades and will continue to exist, and you're not supposed to broadcast to TBTB that fanfic exists. But who knows what the actual answer is...that was just in one fandom. Does fanfiction.net have a disclaimer for everything posted on it? (I've never posted anything up there and I rarely read fanfic there - I typically read from lists or specific fandom fanfic websites) Still confused (and amazed that HP fanfiction was addressed in the merchandise guide) Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 15:07:31 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:07:31 -0600 Subject: Fanfic & Copyrights References: <009001c08153$7c5f6870$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <3A6706B3.B16D53A1@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9572 Hi -- Amy wrote: > With all the recent discussion about copyrights, I've got another question that's been buzzing around in my head since I joined the HP fandom. So...here's my question...is it just different in the book fandom world? I was completely floored when I saw that fanfiction was mentioned in the merchandise guide and I seem to recall fanfic being mentioned in an article or two, but I could be wrong about that. As Carole said, most fanfic writers rely on the fact that they derive no commercial benefit from their work. Smart fanfic writers also include some sort of disclaimer at the top, attributing the canon characters & general HP universe to JKR. The reference I saw to fanfiction in the Merchandise guide is just that it's out there on the web. It's certainly not a collectible item, which is what I first thought you meant. Kelley wrote: > Now, about fanfics: I've been thinking very often lately, how nice > it would be to have the 'best of' HP fanfics compiled as a paperback > book. I know absolutely nothing about the feasibility of this or > what it would entail. Can anyone onlist comment on this? The most I > can offer is that I would buy at least one copy (of each volume ), > maybe two... ;o] > If you're asking whether or not something could be compiled and sold *at cost* (with no profit whatsoever), I suppose that's a possibility. But, if a fanfic writer derives any commercial benefit or profit whatsoever, they've just lost whatever defense to copyright infringement they may have. I'm still not entirely clear how firm a foundation most of us fanfic writers are on anyway -- hoping Heidi will chime in. I have made sure that the ASA disclaimer is worded very strongly & is included on *every* chapter that we post. To those fanfic writers who've only been putting it on the first chapter of their multi-part fanfics, I'd caution that it's better to be safe than sorry in that regard. And, if you're a fanfic writer & not including any disclaimer ... well, better you than me. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 18 16:32:00 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:32:00 -0000 Subject: To Con Dementors (filk) Message-ID: <9475q0+ims1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9573 To Con Dementors (from Chap 21, PoA) (To the tune of The Continental, from the 1934 film The Gay Divorcee. The reader should imagine Harry and Hermione performing this piece as a Rogers-Astaire number) (THE SCENE: Madam Pomfrey's infirmary. Sirius Black has been sentenced to receive the Dementor's Kiss. ALBUS DUMBLEDORE has just reviewed the utter hopelessness of Black's situation with HARRY POTTER and HERMIONE GRANGER) DUMBLEDORE (as if lost in thought) Beautiful concept! Danger is with him! It's very daring, you'll con Dementors We know that Black was guilty of no crime She'll use that thing that Minerva lent her To go three hours back in time (Exit DUMBLEDORE) HARRY I'm sure I must sound like I'm off-center But what's Dumbledore talking about? HERMIONE OK, I'll tell you ? I'm no pretender It's a kind of time-travel route (HERMIONE shows the time-turner to HARRY) It looks just like an hourglass I use it when I go to class I go time-turning to do more learning I'm supposed to use it just for school HARRY But now I see, yes - to save Sirius It ought to be the perfect tool. BOTH When through time you travel You must be careful, and so bewareful Your life you could unravel It's paradoxic, it can be toxic HERMIONE You know that once I turn this stem That it's 9 o'clock, not 12 a.m. BOTH And we'll find through chronic travel That both Black and Buckbeak we can save >From a premature visit to the grave To con Dementors, just go back in time! (HERMIONE give the time-turner three turns ? they both vanish) - CMC From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 16:49:24 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:49:24 -0000 Subject: more easy fun quiz questions off the top of my head In-Reply-To: <9d.100a1316.2797d8c2@aol.com> Message-ID: <9476qk+rnkg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9574 Ok, I'm gonna try this before I see any answers. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Schlobin at a... wrote: > Name one book by Gilderoy Lockhart. For extra credit, name two. Gadding with Ghouls, Magical Me > > What kind of broomstick did Ron Weasley own? Cleansweep 7? > > In CoS at Christmas, Fred bewitched Percy's prefect badge to say? > What did the twins say the flags on the car carrying Percy would say (HB > for???? NOT head boy) Humongous Bighead > > The polyjuice potion turned Harry and Ron into Crabbe and Goyle. > What was the name of the student who Hermione had planned to turn into? Milicent Bulstrode (not sure of the spelling) > > And speaking of Crabbe and Goyle, what were their first names (the students). Vincent and Gregory, respectively > > What is the name of the wizard bank? Gringotts > What is the name of the goblin who first conducts Harry and Hagrid down to > the vaults during Harry's first visit to the bank? Griphook > > What country was Charlie in when Ron and Harry got the idea to send Norbert > to them? Romania > > On the train to Hogwarts, when Harry and Ron meet, Ron tried to do a > spell...what did that spell seek to accomplish? It was something like "sunshine, flowers, butter mellow, turn this stupid, fat rat yellow." He wanted to make Scabbers yellow, so he'd be more interesting. Harry remarked that his whiskers looked a little lighter, but he was just being nice. > > The sweet Slytherins tried to masquerade as Dementors so that Harry would be > defeated at Quidditch. Who was the seeker Harry was playing against at that > time? Hmmm - when it was the REAL Dementors it was Cedric he played against, I think, because he tried to have his win cancelled after he caught the snitch without knowing what was happening to Harry. When it was the fake Dementors... Would have had to be Ravenclaw, as Diggory was Hufflepuff and the Slytherins were on the ground, so I guess that means it was Cho. > > What was the name of the very old wizard who was wearing a long flowery > nightgown at the World Cup (a ministry wizard was desperatley trying to > persuade him to wear pinstriped trousers). This man liked a healthy breeze > around his privates. Was it Arnie? Archie? Something like that. > > The villagers of what village called it the Riddle House? Oh Drat! I should know this. But at the moment, I don't. > > And what was the name of the Old Muggle who was killed by Voldemort........ Frank > > Susan McGee > Schlobin at a... > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msl at fc.net Thu Jan 18 16:50:03 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:50:03 -0000 Subject: totally, totally OT: Re: Governor Hodges mentions HP In-Reply-To: <945r40+a9n8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9476rr+ustu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9575 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: [Not gonna touch the 1st Amendment issue with a 10-ft pole, just not gonna do it....] > Even the militant athiest Nietzsche declared that "Compared to the > Bible, everything else is merely literature." But being a huge Nietzsche fan, I will tackle this since it seems to imply that even Nietzshe would grant the Bible special dispensation, which he most certainly wouldn't. Everything else is "merely literature" because of the Bible's *cultural* influence. It's true that Nietzsche admired the Jewish patriarchs, lawgivers, and prophets of the Old Testament for their aggressive personalities and literary verve; they reminded him of the pre-Socratic Greek heroes whom he also admired. And he regarded their *invention* of God as a monumental act of creative, artistic, and social will (will-to-power, even). The New Testament part of the Bible, however, he regarded with the same disgust that he felt for Socrates and for Platonic mysticism. For N, both are brilliant but pernicious acts of cultural inversion, myths that devalue life rather than uplift it. While he's certainly impressed by the power of the myths, he deeply hates what he perceives as the negative consequences of foisting those theologies, both Xtian and Platonic, on human society. "Compared to the Bible, everything else is merely literature" because in N's view, nothing else does so much glorify human life with one hand (the Jewish) while despising and crushing it with the other (the Christian). N's view in no way bears on the state motto of Ohio. marvin From drmm at fuuko.com Thu Jan 18 17:04:29 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:04:29 -0000 Subject: Obsession Quiz? In-Reply-To: <946vtq+bnel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9477mt+3vgj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9576 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aichambaye at y... wrote: > Hi, the newbie again. Can anyone tell me where to find the obsession > quiz? http://www.fuuko.com/hpquiz.html Hope this helps. DrMM (who was scared to see people got above 90% on that quiz ;)) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 18 17:22:17 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:22:17 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession quiz is done . . . References: <9451r1+89bs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <024701c08173$3578b860$202b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9577 Gosh, I have 93%. I didn't know I was *that* bad! ~ Dinah ~ From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 17:22:45 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:22:45 -0000 Subject: Quidditch/Lupin/French Version In-Reply-To: <946llg+h9me@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9478p5+kut0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9578 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > > 2) My band class has a new student instructor. Guess what his name > is....Mr. > > Moony!! His first name is Robert, so it is R. Moony. My friends in > band > > whom have read the HP books all laughed when he told us. My last name is Moon. Was called Moony a lot as a kid - still am every once in awhile. And I just re-read the sorting scene from ps/ss and found that, as unlikely as it may sound, I am a student at Hogwarts! And in Harry's year too! Don't know how I missed it before. The first name isn't mentioned, but it's definitely me. I only wish they'd said what house I'm in! So now my inner child really CAN chase around after all those cute Weasley boys! Hand me a wand, willya, I'm gonna try one of Mrs. Weasley's love potions! Wheeeeee! kimberly From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 17:22:03 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon Branford) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:22:03 -0000 Subject: obsession quiz (multiple replies) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010117214726.00a94820@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <9478nr+80le@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9579 Simon wrote: "Come on list mother - tell us how bad it was. You're in here with a bunch of obsessive people so it cannot be that bad! I found it quite amusing that you can get 202% on that quiz (involves you being Steve, Jenna, Penny and DrMM - which may be difficult!). DrMM replied: "You're supposed to take this *honestly* ;) You can also get 162% if you answer all of them but the bonus questions. I had to give more points to certain questions because really, #74 "Have you ever gone around King's Cross station bumping into various walls trying to get to platform 9 3/4?" is much more obsessive than #77 "Have you played a Harry Potter game?" Or so it seems to me :) I debated on counting up all the points (but the last four bonus ones) and dividing by that number . . . but chose not to. That's just me though :)" I first went through and took the quiz seriously - getting the less than 50% that I mentioned earlier. I then thoguht that there was no way I had ticked that many boxes so decided to have a look at how the quiz worked and to see how much it was possible to score. It was at this stage that I found out the hypothetical maximum score of 202%. To my mind less than 50% cannot classify as obsessive. It sounds so odd to have such a low percentage qualifying one as an obsessive. I have seen other similar survey things where they cont the other way. So 100% is totally uninterested and 0% is total obsessive. In this case you can also get round the problems caused by being able to get over 100% by saying that anything below 0% counts as 0%. Simon From lexac3 at usa.net Thu Jan 18 17:28:47 2001 From: lexac3 at usa.net (Alex Corvus) Date: 18 Jan 2001 10:28:47 MST Subject: copyright & zines (way too long) Message-ID: <20010118172847.26982.qmail@nwcst336.netaddress.usa.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9580 Legally, disclaimers mean nothing. When we write fanfiction, we are infringing on a copyright, we're doing it wilfully, and that could be legally actionable. Now, whether a specific case would be won or not, that's another question. I'm waiting for the day when we get a good fanfiction test case in court, because I think the argument can be made for fair use and the validity of art forms that incorporate appropriated material and popular culture as modern folklore and yadda yadda yadda. That's why I'm keeping an eye on the MP3 cases, because music tends to be the sentinel art form for copyright legislation, and they could set a slippery-slope precedent for how copyrighted material and intellectual property is treated on the Internet in fan culture. Good test cases are hard to come by, however, because TPTB that do care about such things send out cease and desist letters and fans immediately fold. Disclaimers are a polite fiction that grease the social wheels between fans and TPTB and, as someone else said, allow TPTB to turn a blind eye if they're tolerant of fan culture and fan creative work. We promise we're not making any money, we let people know that we're playing with someone else's toys, and that's a sop to the suits. Whether you get away with it or not is something else entirely and depends on how the producers of a particular work feel about letting someone else play with their toys. From what I've seen, HP seems to have been incredibly tolerant, although I have to wonder if the C&D letters Warner Bros. has been sending out to website owners might not be a portent of things to come. There are other people who are tolerant of such things - I know the official Fontana/Levinson website has links to fansites, including a number of archives specifically for Homicide fanfiction. Paul Gross, who produced the TV show due South, was asked about slash fanfiction in a magazine interview and was highly amused over it. His response about fanfiction was that if he was going to beam the characters into fans' living rooms, they belonged to the fans just as much as to him. OTOH, there are people like George Lucas, who was tolerant of general fanfiction in his Star Wars universe - even gave some of it an official seal of approval - but cracked down so hard on "adult" fanfiction that it was driven way, way, way underground for years (until TPM came out and oodles of slash fans, convinced that Qui and Obi were doing it, had the guerila tactic of the Internet at their disposal). Anne Rice is currently making things very, very uncomfortable for VampChron writers, and you'll hardly be able to find any VC specs on the web right now. HP has seemed tolerant, but I want to see what happens now that Warner Bros. is in on the act. Because it may not matter a stitch how tolerant JKR is, now that there's a corporate finger like that in the pie. Joss Whedon was supportive of Buffy websites, and that didn't stop some of them from getting hit with corporate C&D letters - I'm thinking particularly of AleXander's transcript site. I've actually seen discussion that fanfiction from literary sources might be harder to get away with than fanfiction from media sources because it is the same format as the source material and therefore could be seen as a "substitute" in a way that stories about a TV show or movie couldn't. Although you'd have a hard time convincing *me* that fanfiction was going to drive down the market value of the HP franchise. None of this, of course, has stopped a huge culture of fanfiction, both pre-Internet and on the Internet. If anybody is interested in doing HP zines, they'll be following in the venerable footsteps of millions of pages of printed fanfiction - zines or a circuit were the primary ways fanfiction was circulated pre-Internet, after all, and zines are still a healthy cottage industry, although largely non-profit, if zine publishers want to cover their a**es as much as possible. I like zines, a lot. I like having some portable fanfiction (although it gets interesting when you're reading an explicit slash story on an airplane and the guy next to you decides to make conversation by asking about what you're reading. ) I like being able to read it in the bathtub without worrying that some of my pages are going to get loose and fall into the water. I like the art that comes with many of them, and I like having the material well-formatted and nice to look at, and if the publisher is really good - and generally I don't spend money on zines unless that's so - edited. If someone was interested in producing HP zines, I'd be surprised if they didn't find enough of a market to cover the costs. There shouldn't be any question about who gets the profit, because there shouldn't *be* any profit - cost of zines is generally kept at a level that covers cost-of-production and mailing, to maintain the non-profit status. Desktop publishing capabilities would allow you to format and lay it out, you can get it printed up in mass quantities and bound at a copy shop. Most of the zines I've seen look like college course-packs: 8 1/2x11 sheets, printed back and front, and spiral-bound, although some people also produce them in trade paperback size. I've seen them ... erg, I don't know what the proper word is ... glued, I guess, on occasion instead of spiral-bound - although I think that would drive up the cost. I'm not saying it's easy, because any zine publisher knows it's time-consuming and labor-intensive, particularly if the material is going to be edited - which IMHO it should be, if people are going to spend money on it. But it's completely *feasible* if some people want to take it on. There's new HP fanfiction coming out everyday, and there might be enough interest in formatting and selling some of the "classics" that are on the Internet. Generally, zine publishers ask for zined stories to be kept off the Internet for a 1-2 year period, to make sure there's incentive to buy the zine, and some writers prefer to publish in zines and never put their work on the Internet. I've also seen stories that are highly popular and already web-published put in zines anyway, because the demand for them in bound form would be high enough to cover costs. There's no reason PoU, for instance, couldn't be published as a zine novel, or DD and DS together as two novellas in a single issue, particularly if you include illustrations. If the interest is high enough within the fandom, you could probably do a series of classics, as well as zines with all-new material. The only stumbling block I can see is whether people are going to be willing to pay $10-$20 dollar for each zine. I can check and see if there's a zine-publishers list somewhere, like the vidders list at egroups, if anyone is interested. I've also got a couple of zine publishing sites bookmarked, and I can scrounge up the URLs. Alexa In Oz, bad is good. - Ryan O'Reilly, OZ ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From aichambaye at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 17:39:48 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (Heather Mbaye) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 09:39:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsession Quiz? Message-ID: <20010118173948.22234.qmail@web2103.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9581 Well, Dr. MM, THANKS for showing me the way to the quiz. Looks like I am in the right place... I'm 81% obsessed. Thanks all, Newbie Heather M. --- drmm at fuuko.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aichambaye at y... wrote: > > Hi, the newbie again. Can anyone tell me where to find > the obsession > > quiz? > > http://www.fuuko.com/hpquiz.html > > Hope this helps. > > DrMM (who was scared to see people got above 90% on that > quiz ;)) > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 18 17:57:07 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:57:07 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] sigh...cream again References: <9468s1+98k7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A672E73.7E4082AE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9582 SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com wrote: > Okay, one last question about clotted cream: for some reason, I was > under the impression that it's sweet, but from what people have said > that seems to be incorrect. So, it's not sweet, and is its flavor > anything like that of cream cheese? Okay, I've never had this stuff ('twas my question that started all this) but from the descriptions it sounds like reduced cream (reduced = thickened by boiling away some of the water). Reduced milk is used in Indian cooking, and is sweet, because the reducing consolidates the milk sugars. So I'd imagine that clotted cream, having been reduced also, is also sweet, but I'm betting not tremendously so. Yo, you Brits, did I get it right? When will one of you come to San Antonio and bring me some? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 18 18:04:11 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:04:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Emergency! Potter misuse alert! References: <946umh+tdee@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A67301B.2AF40A8C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9583 Keith Fraser wrote: > "The Labour Party is said to consider that having Harry Potter on > their election posters could win them the election." Hmmm. Didn't help Gore a lot. I think the Gore/Potter campaign button picture is still in the files, isn't it? More on-topic, I wonder what this says about opinions of HP readership--if they're children's books, as the Marketers keep telling us, why aim a character from a Children's Book at adult voters? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 18 17:58:33 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:58:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz References: <946lpp+h9i4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A672EC9.CA1CA429@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9584 Amy wrote: > Sounds like a question to add to the quiz: Do you make a point not to > read any fanfic because you need to keep the canon version of things > in your head? Definitely something to add. I do this same thing, and haven't read any fanfic so as not to get muddled. --Amanda From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jan 18 18:19:58 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:19:58 -0000 Subject: International Editions FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <947c4e+ftgs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9585 Thanks for your reply, yael. Since the most hotly debated errors are in GOF, I don't have any specific errors for you to look up. Instead, I wonder if you could provide more insight as to why the Hebrew translations are considered so bad? Here are examples of problems with other translations: - inept and careless translation; poor word choice and bad grammar (e.g., the Spanish translations) - portions of text eliminated (e.g., the Kwik-Spell incident was deleted in the French version) - books "dumbed down" (e.g., Philosopher's -> Sorcer's in the American edition) Other changes have been made in translation that are not necessarily "bad," just "different," for example: - culture-related changes -- (Examples: 1. the PRC (China) versions have changed flying broomsticks into flying wheels (rollerskates?) because flying broomsticks are not associated with witches in their culture. 2. The Iranian versions of books 1 and 3 do not use the GrandPre covers, reputedly because they show dogs, which are considered unclean. Book 2 uses the GrandPre illustration, which is sans dog.) - other unaccountable changes (e.g., Hermione's "go to the loo" was changed to "have a pee" in the American edition, even though the original is perfectly understandable to Americans, and the change sounds more crude.) Thanks for any help that you can give, Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "yael oren" wrote: > I'm sorry. Can't bring myself to read the Hebrew translation. It's too horrible. But if you mail me a list of errors and their approximate locations, i can go into a close by book store and look for them (only the first three books were published in Hebrew so far, so no wand order error to check). > > Any other question you have about the Hebrew edition, I'll happily answer. > > yael > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jan 18 18:27:52 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:27:52 -0000 Subject: Quidditch/Lupin/French Version In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <947cj8+ffsd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9586 For what it's worth, the French cover of Book 4 shows a faint vertical scar. The first 3 books were crudely illustrated, for children. That changed with the 4th book, when the $$$ from adult readers started rolling in. -JF --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Becvar" wrote: > 3) I have a question for any of you who have read the French version of HP. > I love this cover, bc they are wearing hats, but where is Harry's scar? It > isnt on the picture in the back either, and i was wondering if anyone knew a > reason as to why not. > > Stephanie From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 18 18:49:08 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:49:08 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <9466bc+hj2v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <947dr4+6qmn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9587 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Barbara Morgenroth > wrote: > > Sorry if this has been asked before. > > It has, actually. And it's been discussed a lot. And we're still not > sure. > > > > > How many students are attending Hogwarts? > > JKR says about a thousand. Some of us (myself included) have the > audacity to think she's wrong ;) > > > > > How many tables are in the Great Hall? It always sounds like just > 4 plus > > the teachers' table. > > Yep, there are four, plus the teacher's table. Slytherin is nearest > the door, then Ravenclaw, then Hufflepuff, then Gryffindor. In case > you're curious, the teachers' table is almost certainly on the left > as you come in, with a door behind it and almost to the far wall that > leads to a smaller chamber with a fireplace and a lot of paintings, > including one of the Fat Lady's friend Violet. > > Oh, and there are only FOUR tables in the kitchens. So where does the > food come from that goes up to the teachers' table? > > Steve Vander Ark Maybe the House Elves use the Teacher's Table in the kitchen as a prep-station and with it being conveniently topped with pans, chopping boards, etc during Harry's visit, it probably wasn't noticed? About the number of students, it could be that Harry's year is smaller than the others. I think Ron made a comment about how it will be if Ginny ever met Colin Creevy. Colin and Ginny are in the same year and in the same house. So the only way I can see them not knowing each other is if they aren't taking the same classes, or if there's a lot of other Gryffindor's in their year. Milz From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 18:49:47 2001 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:49:47 -0000 Subject: Nicolas Flamel Message-ID: <947dsb+p3qm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9588 Rowling didn't just make up the name Nicolas Flamel he was a real historic figure, he was an alchemist who spent his life looking, unsuccessful, for the Philosopher's Stone (not the sorcerer's stone!), he even had a wife named Perenelle. The exact date of his birth or death is not known but he published his book in 1414, so he would be about 656 if he were still around 1n 1991 for the first Harry Potter adventure. By the way Michael Myers, the villain of the Halloween movies, was also the name of a medieval Alchemist. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 18 18:57:42 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 18:57:42 -0000 Subject: sigh...cream again In-Reply-To: <3A672E73.7E4082AE@texas.net> Message-ID: <947eb6+10249@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9589 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > > > Okay, one last question about clotted cream: for some reason, I was > > under the impression that it's sweet, but from what people have said > > that seems to be incorrect. So, it's not sweet, and is its flavor > > anything like that of cream cheese? > > Okay, I've never had this stuff ('twas my question that started all this) > but from the descriptions it sounds like reduced cream (reduced = > thickened by boiling away some of the water). Reduced milk is used in > Indian cooking, and is sweet, because the reducing consolidates the milk > sugars. So I'd imagine that clotted cream, having been reduced also, is > also sweet, but I'm betting not tremendously so. > > Yo, you Brits, did I get it right? When will one of you come to San > Antonio and bring me some? > > --Amanda I'm not a Brit. The word "sweet" when referring to cream and milk doesn't mean sweet, like sugary, but rather sweet meaning not soured (think buttermilk). Here's some links to Clotted Cream and the making of: The Real stuff: http://www.evo.org/sherlock/russell/recipes/clotted_cream.html US equivalents ('cause we unless you have fresh and warm from the cow milk, you're not going to get the required percentage of milkfat): http://drinc.ucdavis.edu/html/man/man-2.shtml http://www.post-gazette.com/food/20000330johnston1b.asp Milz From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 19:29:37 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:29:37 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz References: <946lpp+h9i4@eGroups.com> <3A672EC9.CA1CA429@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9590 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski Amy wrote: > Sounds like a question to add to the quiz: Do you make a point not to > read any fanfic because you need to keep the canon version of things > in your head? Definitely something to add. I do this same thing, and haven't read any fanfic so as not to get muddled. --Amanda I understand your abstention from any type of fanfic, my own husband refuses to read my fic from the same reason, but i think it is a little too global. There are fics out there, good ones, that do not occur during Harry's Hogwarts years, and have almost nothing in common with the canon plot. Take PoU for instance, there is no chance it would get you confused about the HP main-stream. And when i say 'take PoU' i mean it literally. It's not just a good fic, it's a great work of art. After that, you can start on ASA and STNE, both fit into the same 'wonderful but harmless' categories. yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 19:21:53 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:21:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsession Quiz? References: <9477mt+3vgj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A674251.59A5E9F7@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9591 Hi -- I retook the Obsession Quiz, taking DrMM's advice & not answering yes to both Question 30 & the "Are you Penny" questions. I'm now at a more acceptable 88% level. Whew! Penny drmm at fuuko.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aichambaye at y... wrote: > > Hi, the newbie again. Can anyone tell me where to find the obsession > > quiz? > > http://www.fuuko.com/hpquiz.html > > Hope this helps. > > DrMM (who was scared to see people got above 90% on that quiz ;)) > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From rlpenar at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 19:30:00 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (rlpenar at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:30:00 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <947dr4+6qmn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <947g7o+jsno@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9592 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > Steve Vander Ark wrote: > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Barbara Morgenroth > > wrote: > > > Sorry if this has been asked before. > > > > It has, actually. And it's been discussed a lot. And we're still not > > sure. > > > > > > > > How many students are attending Hogwarts? > > > > JKR says about a thousand. Some of us (myself included) have the > > audacity to think she's wrong ;) > > > > > > > > How many tables are in the Great Hall? It always sounds like just > > 4 plus > > > the teachers' table. > > > > Yep, there are four, plus the teacher's table. Slytherin is nearest > > the door, then Ravenclaw, then Hufflepuff, then Gryffindor. In case > > you're curious, the teachers' table is almost certainly on the left > > as you come in, with a door behind it and almost to the far wall > that > > leads to a smaller chamber with a fireplace and a lot of paintings, > > including one of the Fat Lady's friend Violet. > > > > Oh, and there are only FOUR tables in the kitchens. So where does > the > > food come from that goes up to the teachers' table? > > > > Steve Vander Ark > > Maybe the House Elves use the Teacher's Table in the kitchen as a > prep-station and with it being conveniently topped with pans, > chopping boards, etc during Harry's visit, it probably wasn't noticed? > > About the number of students, it could be that Harry's year is smaller > than the others. I think Ron made a comment about how it will be if > Ginny ever met Colin Creevy. Colin and Ginny are in the same year and > in the same house. So the only way I can see them not knowing each > other is if they aren't taking the same classes, or if there's a lot > of other Gryffindor's in their year. > > Milz Disclaimer: the following individual is new to the group and new to the HP obsession, so please forgive her naivete.... It seems to me that there is come conflict in the way the JKR refers to the number of students. At times, she makes it seem as though there are dozens of Gryffindors (I cannot think of exact example, and I'm not obsessed to the point of bringing my books to work with me:)), other times (such as when referring to the dormitories), it is a small number. I am reminded of when Harry gets back to school at the beginning of CoS and he goes up to his dormitory, which houses the 2nd year boys (he notices that the sign has been changed to read "2nd years"). There are only the 5 four-posters in the room. Is there ever any other mention of a boy in Harry's class other than these 5? Becky From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 19:42:56 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:42:56 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: International Editions FAQ References: <947c4e+ftgs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9593 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Flanagan Thanks for your reply, yael. Since the most hotly debated errors are in GOF, I don't have any specific errors for you to look up. Instead, I wonder if you could provide more insight as to why the Hebrew translations are considered so bad? Here are examples of problems with other translations: I'm afraid i haven't read the Hebrew version, I've only read the first chapter of PoA, and that was enough for me. In the quote taken from "A History of Magic" the text talks about "Wendelin the Weird" while the Hebrew translates back into "Wendelin the Disturbed". I'm afraid this is not all the translator's fault (although in this case it is). English has three times more used words than Hebrew. This is why Hebrew translations are usually bad, and this is why i learned to read English in the first place. (you wouldn't believe how much of the humour was lost in the translation of 'the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'.) I'll ask among my friends to see if any of them have a Hebrew version, and try to dig out a few more examples, but it might take some time. yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at walton.to Thu Jan 18 19:33:59 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:33:59 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! In-Reply-To: <946umh+tdee@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9594 Keith Fraser wrote: > For those not familiar with UK politics, the Labour Party has been in > power since 1997 (hence the imminent parliamentary election) and > since then has promoted a nauseatingly PC Cool Brittania full of > purple cafes, strange modern art and political spin-doctoring. How > dare they even consider using Harry Potter to promote themselves! Hey, it could be worse. You could have Ann Widdecombe in a veela costume. Ann Widdecombe, BTW, is the lunatic Shadow Home Secretary (Translation: Shadow = Opposition. There is no US equivalent, but she's of the Conservative Party. Home Secretary = somewhere between Attorney General and Sec of the Interior), who was recently embarrassed when her plans (should she and the party she belongs to, by some bizarre feat of porcine aviation, be elected) to create fixed penalties, somewhat like traffic fines, for use of cannabis/marijuana backfired after the majority of her Opposition frontrunners admitted using it. She was heard to remark, concerning the proposed fines for marijuana use, "It's a bit like speeding." She *obviously* hasn't tried it, has she? Yay! Another election to go massively OT with! --John, who's willing to write a comparative US-UK politics and government essay for the list if anyone's interested. ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#50 My main computers will have their own special operating system that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and Macintosh computers. ======================================== From lmrourke at snet.net Thu Jan 18 19:42:04 2001 From: lmrourke at snet.net (Lisa Rourke) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:42:04 -0500 Subject: HP4GP files rearrangements Message-ID: <000001c08186$c1a09020$5ef03ccc@krass> No: HPFGUIDX 9595 Hi. A while back someone posted a notice about rearranging and tidying up the files section of HP4GU. I had posted some drawings and was going to move them but got side tracked and forgot about it. When I went to see if they were still there or had been moved to a different folder (I thought maybe there would be a fanfiction/fanart folder), I couldn't find them anywhere. I checked pretty much all the existing folders but to no avail. Even the drawings by Dogspoon that were posted there before mine seemed to have disappeared. Anybody know what happened to them? Gee...I didn't think they were too bad :-) Should I repost or just forget it? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Thu Jan 18 19:47:40 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:47:40 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <947dr4+6qmn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <947h8s+q61i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9596 > About the number of students, it could be that Harry's year is smaller > than the others. I think Ron made a comment about how it will be if > Ginny ever met Colin Creevy. Colin and Ginny are in the same year and > in the same house. So the only way I can see them not knowing each > other is if they aren't taking the same classes, or if there's a lot > of other Gryffindor's in their year. No, he made no such comment. Maybe in a fanfic somewhere, but not in the canon. There are all sorts of very good reasons why 1000 is just too many. One of the most compelling to me is that in PA the sorting is over in far less than an hour, probably barely a half hour. Read through that section, there's no way it can be anything else. At one kid per minute, that's not even ten kids per house. Frankly, JKR just didn't think it all through and as a result the books give plenty of evidence of a smaller student population. I say somewhere between 300 and 400 would be about right, considering all the evidence. Well, all the evidence except the word of the author, I guess ;) Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which has a page giving all the pros and cons of this question http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 19:49:44 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:49:44 -0000 Subject: Fanon "ruining" canon (was Obsessiveness quiz) In-Reply-To: <3A672EC9.CA1CA429@texas.net> Message-ID: <947hco+hh6j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9597 > Amy wrote: > > > Sounds like a question to add to the quiz: Do you make a point not to > > read any fanfic because you need to keep the canon version of things > > in your head? > To which Amanda added: Definitely something to add. I do this same thing, and haven't read any > fanfic so as not to get muddled. Hee hee! Amanda, this is a valid point. I used to read the books over for the stories. Now, I read them with a slant that I'm sure I'll never be able to shake. I'm always finding evidence for my pet theories, missing scenes that I'd love to see played out, etc. Having said that, I have to express how much I admire those who have managed to avoid fanfiction. I found HP fanfiction by accident... I was reading fics from other fandoms at ff.net at the time. At the time, I'd just finished teaching a very successful literature unit of Harry Potter... and was extremely annoyed that the series was not done. Also, as a composition/rhetoric scholar-in-training, one of my (many) research interests is online discursive formation. The explosion of adolescents/teens the same ages as the kids I teach writing fanfiction was a phenomenon that fascinated *and* excited me. If it wasn't for reading PoU, I'm not sure *how* I would have found other adult fans of the series my students are so crazy about. So even if fanfic does taint canon, it has its uses. --Ebony From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Jan 18 19:58:04 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:58:04 -0000 Subject: Obsession quiz is done . . . In-Reply-To: <024701c08173$3578b860$202b07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <947hsc+ts3f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9598 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: > Gosh, I have 93%. I didn't know I was *that* bad! > > ~ Dinah ~ I got 52%. I didn't know I was that *good* Pippin (who thinks she is way more obsessed than that, but doesn't own any merch except for the Hermione jigsaw puzzle she got for Xmas) From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 19:59:37 2001 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:59:37 -0000 Subject: DrMM's obsession quiz - and a solution In-Reply-To: <002a01c0811f$aa35dd80$063570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <947hv9+m3tp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9599 Neil answered: > The ideas are still there, Jen! That reference is to a fanfic vision of > Draco Malfoy in leather trousers. I think Cassie originated this (Draco > Dormiens and Draco Sinister still being on my 'next up' reading list) and > I'd say it's a fair marker of absorption in the world of HP fanfic to > believe that Draco he really *ought* to be dressing that way. Oh, I've read DD and DS (and PoU and STNE and ASA and a lot of other acronyms) and I know about the leather fetish the women who love Harry Potter have seemed to develop... I'm just wondering how that can be considered *aversion* therapy. I just can't imagine seeing someone as sexy as oh.... Sirius Black, let's say... in leather pants, and seeing my obsession with HP diminish at all. ;) Jen From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 18 20:12:55 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:12:55 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <947g7o+jsno@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <947io7+o8nj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9600 > > Disclaimer: the following individual is new to the group and new to > the HP obsession, so please forgive her naivete.... > > It seems to me that there is come conflict in the way the JKR refers > to the number of students. At times, she makes it seem as though > there are dozens of Gryffindors (I cannot think of exact example, and > I'm not obsessed to the point of bringing my books to work with > me:)), other times (such as when referring to the dormitories), it is > a small number. I am reminded of when Harry gets back to school at > the beginning of CoS and he goes up to his dormitory, which houses > the 2nd year boys (he notices that the sign has been changed to > read "2nd years"). There are only the 5 four-posters in the room. Is > there ever any other mention of a boy in Harry's class other than > these 5? > > Becky I don't think there is ever any mention of other Gryffindor boys, other than the ones that share Harry's dormitory. On the other hand, we could get really nit-picky about the definition of a "dormitory". A dormitory is defined alternately as 1. a room for sleeping or 2. a residence hall providing sleeping rooms. So, perhaps Harry's dormitory (definition #1) is located in a dormitory (definition #2) . Maybe the dormitory (definition #2) of Harry's dormitory (definition #1) had the sign "2nd Years", but Harry shares his dormitory (dormitory #1) with Ron, Dean, Neville, and Ron and that didn't have a sign on it. Welcome to the group! :-)Milz From ebonyink at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 20:09:16 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:09:16 -0000 Subject: Obsession Quiz? In-Reply-To: <3A674251.59A5E9F7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <947ihd+h5c3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9601 ---Penny wrote: > I retook the Obsession Quiz, taking DrMM's advice & not answering yes to both Question 30 & the "Are you Penny" questions. I'm now at a more acceptable 88% level. Whew! > Acceptable! :-) I'm disappointed that I'm at 83%... I don't *get* B-minuses... Ah, well! Time to cram! --Ebony From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 20:15:24 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:15:24 -0000 Subject: Ginny and Colin and student numbers Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9602 Someone wrote: "I think Ron made a comment about how it will be if Ginny ever met Colin Creevy. Colin and Ginny are in the same year and in the same house. So the only way I can see them not knowing each other is if they aren't taking the same classes, or if there's a lot of other Gryffindor's in their year." Steve replied: "No, he made no such comment. Maybe in a fanfic somewhere, but not in the canon." In CoS (chapter 6) Ron says: "You'd better hope Creevey doesn't meet Ginny, they'll be starting a Harry Potter fan club." Later on there is some comment about Ginny being affected because Creevey had been sitting next to each other in Charms. Exact quote CoS chapter 11: Ginny Weasley, who sat next to Colin Creevey in Charms, was distraught ... Seems fairly clear that they know each other and are in the same classes. Simon From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 18 20:15:43 2001 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:15:43 -0000 Subject: Clotted cream and other scone yummies... Message-ID: <947itf+s0me@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9603 Hi! Just wanted to let you guys know that there is a great source of yummy stuff (including clotted cream, double devon cream, and golden syrup) available both online and in print... you can get them (and other great spreads) at the King Arthur Flour Company catalog. Here's a link to the online catalog entrance/print catalog order form: www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos/06187.3.086246167860042484 Here are product order numbers to make your search easier... Clotted cream (6oz, $6.25) #1141 Clotted cream w/ brandy (?oz, $6.50) #1319 Double Devon cream (6oz, $5.50) #1320 King Golden Syrup (16oz, $2.75) #3175 Lyle's Golden Syrup (pourable) (?oz, $5.95) #1390 Their shipping policy is also very fair, as they don't charge you according to the price of your order, but according to the weight of your order. Just in case anyone wants to make treacle tarts with real golden syrup. ;) Jen (who drools over the catalog almost every night...) From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 20:13:42 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:13:42 -0600 Subject: Hogwarts population References: <947h8s+q61i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A674E76.9CF205AB@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9604 Hi -- Steve Vander Ark wrote: > I think Ron made a comment about how it will be if > > Ginny ever met Colin Creevy. Colin and Ginny are in the same year > and in the same house. So the only way I can see them not knowing each > other is if they aren't taking the same classes, or if there's a lot of > other Gryffindor's in their year. > > No, he made no such comment. Maybe in a fanfic somewhere, but not in > the canon. Sorry Steve -- but she's right. CoS -- page 99 (US version) -- Chapter 6. "You could've fried an egg on your face," Ron said. "You better hope Creevey doesn't meet Ginny, or they'll be starting a Harry Potter fan club." It's a good point really. I still think the 1000 students figure is way wrong, but this should go in as an argument for the larger number (it's not been made before I don't think). Penny From msl at fc.net Thu Jan 18 20:28:19 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:28:19 -0000 Subject: Sheryll: Ordering the UK versions from Chapters In-Reply-To: <9465jo+pm3n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <947jl3+b36f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9605 The Candain publisher is "Raincoast," and since I'm a paranoid little monkey I emailed the publisher to ask if their text was identical to the UK text--and they said yes. Also, I was mistaken a while back when I said the books could be gotten less expensively from the UK...I did my currency exchange math wrong. Whoops. marvin (anticipating in fear the inauguralation of Shrub) --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > Hi Sheryll. I know I just posted this the other day (yesterday?), > but I wanted to ask if you would confirm for me-- are the UK versions > that are available in Canada published by Rainbow something or > other? If yes, then I'm breathing a sigh of relief. To anyone > considering ordering the UK versions from Amazon UK, try Chapters. I > purchased the box set of hardcover books for just under $48, far less > than the $75 others are reporting from Amaz. UK. Here's the URL for > Chapters: http://www.chapters.ca/ I searched "Harry Potter", and > plenty of items came up. > > Kelley From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jan 18 20:29:53 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:29:53 -0000 Subject: HP4GP files rearrangements In-Reply-To: <000001c08186$c1a09020$5ef03ccc@krass> Message-ID: <947jo2+g5np@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9606 Sorry, I removed these drawing files during yesterday's disk quota emergency. Messages were being bounced from the archive, and we had to do something fast. I still have all your drawings, and will put them up on the graphics e-group in the next day or two. Access to them will be via the portkey. I also removed some fanfic files. I will permanently delete any that exist on POU. If they're not on POU we'll have to decide where they should go. -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Lisa Rourke" wrote: > Hi. A while back someone posted a notice about rearranging and tidying up > the files section of HP4GU. I had posted some drawings and was going to > move them but got side tracked and forgot about it. When I went to see if > they were still there or had been moved to a different folder (I thought > maybe there would be a fanfiction/fanart folder), I couldn't find them > anywhere. I checked pretty much all the existing folders but to no avail. > Even the drawings by Dogspoon that were posted there before mine seemed to > have disappeared. Anybody know what happened to them? Gee...I didn't > think they were too bad :-) Should I repost or just forget it? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com Thu Jan 18 20:44:29 2001 From: hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com (Sara Metz) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:44:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population Message-ID: <20010118.144430.-357249.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9607 On Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:12:55 -0000 "milz " writes: > > > > > Disclaimer: the following individual is new to the group and new > to > > the HP obsession, so please forgive her naivete.... > > > > It seems to me that there is come conflict in the way the JKR > refers > > to the number of students. At times, she makes it seem as though > > there are dozens of Gryffindors (I cannot think of exact example, > and > > I'm not obsessed to the point of bringing my books to work with > > me:)), other times (such as when referring to the dormitories), it > > is > > a small number. I am reminded of when Harry gets back to school > at > > the beginning of CoS and he goes up to his dormitory, which houses > > > the 2nd year boys (he notices that the sign has been changed to > > read "2nd years"). There are only the 5 four-posters in the room. > Is > > there ever any other mention of a boy in Harry's class other than > > these 5? > > > > Becky > > I don't think there is ever any mention of other Gryffindor boys, > other than the ones that share Harry's dormitory. > > On the other hand, we could get really nit-picky about the > definition > of a "dormitory". A dormitory is defined alternately as 1. a room > for > sleeping or 2. a residence hall providing sleeping rooms. So, > perhaps > Harry's dormitory (definition #1) is located in a dormitory > (definition #2) . Maybe the dormitory (definition #2) of > Harry's > dormitory (definition #1) had the sign "2nd Years", but Harry shares > > his dormitory (dormitory #1) with Ron, Dean, Neville, and Ron and > that didn't have a sign on it. That could be a possibility, but JKR probably would have mentioned the other people in Harry's year. I computed this up (I was bored): if there are 5 boys in Harry's year, than we can assume there would be 5 girls. That's ten per year which would be 70 per house, and 280 students in the whole school. If we say that all the classes below Harry's (in book 4) have twenty students, that would be 100 students per house and 400 students in the school, which would probably be the best number of students in the school simply because it would be hard to feed, house, and teach a whole lot more students than that. I think that the number would be limited in a boarding school as opposed to a regular school where the kids go home at the end of the day. Just my humble opinion, of course. Feel free to pick at it, I won't mind. =) Sara Proud of my 104% Harry Potter Obsession Rating ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Jan 18 20:10:36 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:10:36 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Leather aversion...(OTish) References: <947hv9+m3tp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001e01c0818a$b8e291a0$e13670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9608 I said: > > I'd say it's a fair marker of absorption in the world of HP fanfic to > > believe that Draco he really *ought* to be dressing that way. Jen said: > Oh, I've read DD and DS (and PoU and STNE and ASA and a lot of other > acronyms) and I know about the leather fetish the women who love > Harry Potter have seemed to develop... I'm just wondering how that > can be considered *aversion* therapy. No wonder I've never cured anyone! Hmmmmm. Perhaps I meant 'extinction' therapy...? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 18 20:53:03 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:53:03 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP4GP files rearrangements References: <947jo2+g5np@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a901c08190$a8722320$122e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9609 > I also removed some fanfic files. I will permanently delete any that > exist on POU. If they're not on POU we'll have to decide where they > should go. > -Jim Flanagan Well, I think the best place to put them would be the hp_fanfiction groups, but that depends of course on the authors. Just a thought. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 20:45:05 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 14:45:05 -0600 Subject: More Publicity for Us Message-ID: <3A6755D1.1C9FC8C9@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9610 Hi -- My husband (slightly abashed) just transferred a call to me that came to him somehow from the NY Times. They are doing a follow-up piece on the Wand Order issue, based on the Daily News piece from 2 days ago. The reporter wants to talk to some of you, so I'm providing him with a few email addresses of people who I know have some thoughts/opinions on this issue. Penny From john_beresford at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 21:13:49 2001 From: john_beresford at hotmail.com (John Beresford) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:13:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9611 Hello all - I am a recent addition to the HP e-group. I have to admit that I am lost with some of the conversations thus far. I am very interested in taking the Obsessiveness Quiz. Can someone direct me to where I can find this. I, unfortunatly, only get to jump on-line during quick breaks from my office dulldrums, but have loved getting the e-mails from other HP fans. I look forward to being able to join in on conversations. Regards - John From: "Amy " Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 11:58:49 -0000 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > Okay, I took the quiz. I'm at 73%. That's not all that high. And I > thought you people had the measure of me... > > Of course, I make a point not to read any fanfic because I need to > keep the canon version of things in my head. Sounds like a question to add to the quiz: Do you make a point not to read any fanfic because you need to keep the canon version of things in your head? Amy Z _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 18 21:40:28 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:40:28 -0000 Subject: Ginny and Colin and student numbers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <947nsc+6v22@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9612 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > Someone wrote: "I think Ron made a comment about how it will be if Ginny > ever met Colin Creevy. Colin and Ginny are in the same year and in the same > house. So the only way I can see them not knowing each other is if they > aren't taking the same classes, or if there's a lot of other Gryffindor's in > their year." > > Steve replied: "No, he made no such comment. Maybe in a fanfic somewhere, > but not in the canon." > > In CoS (chapter 6) Ron says: "You'd better hope Creevey doesn't meet Ginny, > they'll be starting a Harry Potter fan club." > > Later on there is some comment about Ginny being affected because Creevey > had been sitting next to each other in Charms. Exact quote CoS chapter 11: > Ginny Weasley, who sat next to Colin Creevey in Charms, was distraught ... > > Seems fairly clear that they know each other and are in the same classes. > > > Simon The Ron comment I referred to in my earlier post was from CoS ch. 6 (page 99 American hardcover) as Simon pointed out. But it took place the first day of school, sometime after lunch when Colin approached Harry. So it's entirely possible that Ginny had met Colin earlier that day, though Ron did not know it. BUT it is rather strange that Ron would assume Ginny did not meet Colin, if the class size is small. :-)Milz From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 18 21:47:06 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:47:06 -0000 Subject: Clotted cream and other scone yummies... In-Reply-To: <947itf+s0me@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <947o8q+e2qc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9613 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jen Piersol" wrote: > Hi! Just wanted to let you guys know that there is a great source > of yummy stuff (including clotted cream, double devon cream, and > golden syrup) available both online and in print... you can get > them (and other great spreads) at the King Arthur Flour Company > catalog. Here's a link to the online catalog entrance/print catalog > order form: > > www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos/06187.3.086246167860042484 > > Here are product order numbers to make your search easier... > > Clotted cream (6oz, $6.25) #1141 > Clotted cream w/ brandy (?oz, $6.50) #1319 > Double Devon cream (6oz, $5.50) #1320 > King Golden Syrup (16oz, $2.75) #3175 > Lyle's Golden Syrup (pourable) (?oz, $5.95) #1390 > > > Their shipping policy is also very fair, as they don't charge you > according to the price of your order, but according to the weight of > your order. > > Just in case anyone wants to make treacle tarts with real golden syrup. ;) > > Jen (who drools over the catalog almost every night...) That sounds pretty reasonable for the Lyle's Golden Syrup, one of the grocery stores, Safeway, in my area sells a 10 oz bottle for $4. 99. Milz From educatorang at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 22:03:33 2001 From: educatorang at hotmail.com (angela quiram) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:03:33 -0600 Subject: copyright Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9614 Ok. Not to stir the pot, but if many of you as it seems write fanfic and think it is ok, whether you know copyright laws or not, what is the big fuss over the books being made available, for free, as I understand it, on the internet. I personally own both hardcover and softcover of all available HP books, but would not mind, as others have stated, the ease of an electronic copy. IMO, I am getting tired of all these copyright infringement arguements. I feel that if no one is making a profit from these "pirated" works, then there is no problem. Besides I would consider it free and large scale advertising. Many people I know personally, have gone out and bought something because of an "illegal" peek at it--whether it has been books, music or movies. I in no way want to deprive individual authors either their well deserved kudos or money, but I do think it is getting a little ridiculous. Just my two cents--please take no offense or judge me based on this. I really enjoy this group and the discussions. Angela Q. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jan 18 22:18:56 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:18:56 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <947q4g+63bf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9615 Repost of Quiz URL: http://www.fuuko.com/hpquiz.html Have Fun! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "John Beresford" wrote: I am very interested in taking the Obsessiveness Quiz. Can someone direct me to where I can find this. From vderark at bccs.org Thu Jan 18 22:24:00 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:24:00 -0000 Subject: Ginny and Colin and student numbers In-Reply-To: <947nsc+6v22@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <947qe0+n4e4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9616 Hi -- > > Someone wrote: "I think Ron made a comment about how it will be if > Ginny > > ever met Colin Creevy. > > Steve replied: "No, he made no such comment. > > In CoS (chapter 6) Ron says: "You'd better hope Creevey doesn't meet > Ginny, > > they'll be starting a Harry Potter fan club." You are right. I read the original comment completely differently and jumped to a conclusion. Sorry :) I can see how that might suggest that they hadn't met and therefore the student population is quite large. I think there's much stronger, more concrete evidence that the student population is smaller. BTW, I thought of something a little while ago. JKR tells us these stories from Harry's point of view, and in that voice she frequently uses exaggeration as if it's fact. For example, when Hagrid sobers up enough to realize that Harry came down to his hut at night to see him when Black was supposedly out to kill him, he shouts at them. The books says that they jumped a foot into the air. Now we all know and assume that they didn't REALLY jump a foot off the ground. In fact, no one really even leaves the ground at all when they do that jump in surprise thing. But JKR writes it that way be cause Harry feels it like that. There are quite a few other examples of this in the books. Now that seems to me to support the theory that many of the "big numbers" mentioned--the two hundred Slytherin supporters, the hundreds of Christmas turkeys, the seating for 1200 people at the Yule Ball-- are all just coming from Harry's subjective point of view. In each of these cases Harry would have reason to see a larger number than there were and JKR writes it that way. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which doesn't have a Colin Creevey page...yet http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 18 22:26:28 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:26:28 -0000 Subject: Pomfrey (filk) Message-ID: <947qik+ac64@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9617 Pomfrey (to the tune of Born Free) (The Scene: Madam Pomfrey's infirmary, late at night. It is deserted save for one lone occupant. Once again ? and who knows why this time ? HARRY POTTER is confined to bed) HARRY POTTER Pomfrey A victim of cursing Requires much nursing Which she is equipped to provide Pomfrey Whether recouping from Voldy Or a common cold, she Is always there at my side Pomfrey With her I can calm be On her ward I stay more Often than at Gryffindor Pomfrey Her manner won't charm you But she can re-arm you If skeletal parts disappear Pomfrey She loves peace and quiet She'll read you the riot Act if your noise reaches her ear Pomfrey I know it's now lights out But I once more must light out For an Emergency! (HARRY dons his invisibility cloak and exits) - CMC From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 22:30:19 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:30:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] New Email/Mr. Moony Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9618 I did not want anyone thinking i abandoned the group, but i had so much email from you guys I couldnt find the stuff i needed for school/work etc So, this is my new email...woo hoo... As for Mr. Moony, I introduced myself to him today, and guess what...He loves HP. I told him about our little group, we will see if he joins the ranks soon i suppose. turns out he is 23 and wants to be a band director(strange man...) Stephanie Who is Going to Marry Fred Weasley, I will play Angelina 1 on 1 in Quidditch for him...and after backyard Quidditch she stands not a chance! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Jan 18 22:30:03 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:30:03 -0000 Subject: leather aversion, fanfic, etc. In-Reply-To: <002a01c0811f$aa35dd80$063570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <947qpb+3njv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9619 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > I wrote: > > "I use a very safe form of aversion therapy, confronting my 'guests' > with such items as stuffed owls, warm leather trousers and copies of > the New York Times' Best Seller List." > > "Jen said: > > Uh, Neil? Warm Leather Trousers? > > ;) > > Jen (who remembers oh-so-long-ago when she would have said "warm > leather pants" and Neil would have gotten ideas in his head)" > > *** > Neil wrote: The ideas are still there, Jen! That reference is to a fanfic vision of Draco Malfoy in leather trousers. I think Cassie originated this (Draco Dormiens and Draco Sinister still being on my 'next up' reading list) and I'd say it's a fair marker of absorption in the world of HP fanfic to believe that Draco really *ought* to be dressing that way. > _____________________________________ *giggles* Okay, yes that would be me. But how is Draco in leather trousers "aversion therapy"? I can see Draco in a tutu as aversion therapy. Or Hagrid in a thong. But Draco in leather trousers?......*pauses for thought.* Actually, believe it or not, I don't have all that much trouble keeping the canon and the fanon Draco separate. Fanon Draco: looks good in leather. Canon Draco: absolutely NOT! See? On the other hand, both canon and fanon Sirius in leather trousers works fine for me. Cassie wondering why nobody ever puts Harry in leather... From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 18 22:33:54 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:33:54 -0600 Subject: Copyrights References: Message-ID: <3A676F51.F440D80F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9620 Hi angela quiram wrote: > Ok. Not to stir the pot, but if many of you as it seems write fanfic and think > it is ok, whether you know copyright laws or not, what is the big fuss over > the books being made available, for free, as I understand it, on the internet. > I personally own both hardcover and softcover of all available HP > books, but would not mind, as others have stated, the ease of an electronic > copy. > > IMO, I am getting tired of all these copyright infringement arguements. I feel > that if no one is making a profit from these "pirated" works, then there is no > problem. No one is making a profit, including the person who *should* be making a profit: the author, JKR. These pirated versions are diverting rightful profits away from the published author. They are called "pirated" versions for a reason! There's simply no way to police it & determine if a person who is downloading a copy from the internet already owns a print copy of the same work. The only way for an electronic version to be legal is for the consumer to *pay* for it, with royalties going to the author just like the printed versions. This is very different from fanfic because fanfic authors have no expectation of profits or commercial benefit of any kind. I don't think you would find this nearly so ridiculous if you'd take a moment & put yourself in the shoes of a published author. An author's income is derived from sales of the books. How would you feel if you learned that someone had scanned the book & uploaded the scanned version to the internet so that it was available for free to anyone who wanted to download it? Many of those who download a copy will consider it a boondoggle & not bother to go buy a copy -- so the end result is less money in your pocket. It's thievery -- plain & simple. I'd love to have an electronic version myself -- particularly today as I'm working on some of the FAQs for this group & it would sure make my life easier. But, until a legal authorized electronic version is available for *sale* to the public, I'll pass. Penny From marty at martynet.org Thu Jan 18 23:07:35 2001 From: marty at martynet.org (marty at martynet.org) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 15:07:35 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: leather aversion, fanfic, etc. In-Reply-To: <947qpb+3njv@eGroups.com>; from cassandraclaire@mail.com on Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 10:30:03PM -0000 References: <002a01c0811f$aa35dd80$063570c2@c5s910j> <947qpb+3njv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010118150735.J24061@ludism.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9621 > > *giggles* Okay, yes that would be me. But how is Draco in leather > trousers "aversion therapy"? I can see Draco in a tutu as > aversion therapy. Or Hagrid in a thong. Hey, I think Hagrid might be kind of cool in a thong! > Cassie > wondering why nobody ever puts Harry in leather... Because Harry is not leather-cute, Harry is Lands-End/LLBean-cute. :-> Marty From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 11:16:44 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:16:44 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population References: <20010118.144430.-357249.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> Message-ID: <003d01c08209$56844740$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9622 Sarah wrote, > That could be a possibility, but JKR probably would have mentioned the > other people in Harry's year. I computed this up (I was bored): if there > are 5 boys in Harry's year, than we can assume there would be 5 girls. > That's ten per year which would be 70 per house, and 280 students in the > whole school. If we say that all the classes below Harry's (in book 4) > have twenty students, that would be 100 students per house and 400 > students in the school, which would probably be the best number of > students in the school simply because it would be hard to feed, house, > and teach a whole lot more students than that. I think that the number > would be limited in a boarding school as opposed to a regular school > where the kids go home at the end of the day. Just my humble opinion, of > course. Feel free to pick at it, I won't mind. =) That's about the same calculation that a lot of us made, ending up with a about 400 students. However, there is some conflicting evidence. One of the most obvious is in PoA, where Harry sees 200 slithery green Slytherins at the match. Assuming all four houses are of the same size, that makes 800 students. We were still puzzling over that one (some people suggesting a bunch of alumni had flown in for the match), when Jo gave an interview (or answered a chat question--can't remember which) saying there are *1000* students at Hogwarts. My current pet theory is that HWMNBN pulled a king Herod on Harry's generation of baby wizards. Presumably, he'd heard that someone was about to be born who would damage his power, but didn't know who. So he slaughtered all the wizard babies he could get--and politically correct guy that he was, he slaughtered roughly as many boys as girls. (And as many Slytherins as Gryffindors, too ... ) Hence, Harry's year is less than half he size of all the others. (One would expect it to have a higher percentage of muggle-borns, too.) Of course, it might just be a Flint.* Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) * A Flint is an inconsistency on Jo's part, requiring daring feats of creative explanation. Named in honor of Marcus Flint, the thick-sculled Slytherin who turned up at Hogwarts a year after everyone else had graduated. _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From cad2 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 18 23:34:39 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (Cindy Dombrowski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:34:39 -0000 Subject: Intro Message-ID: <947uif+9kn7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9623 Well, I'm new to this forum and to HP... I started reading #1 last Friday and now I'm 1/2 way through #2. I can't wait to start #3 :) I am 24 yrs old and am so happy to find this forum for ADULTS :) I was tooling around on the web and found lots of sites for kids and was not impressed ;) Glad there is an adult forum to discuss the books. Hope you don't go into too much detail about the novels - I don't want any hints as to what is to come!!! Cindy From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 11:35:39 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:35:39 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] copyright References: Message-ID: <004501c0820b$f4f63080$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9624 Angela wrote, > I really enjoy this group and the discussions. Welcome in, and have fun! > IMO, I am getting tired of all these copyright infringement arguments. I think it might be a good idea to drop the issue. The lawyers in our group (Penny and Heidi) have both confirmed that it is *illegal* to posses such a copy. They really do know what they're talking about, so I take their word for it. Whether using such an illegal copy is in every case *immoral,* is a related but somewhat different question--and I think people need to answer it on their own. I'm not entirely sure what *I* think, but I'm absolutely sure that it's the kind of question that's difficult to discuss without scalping each other. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray.) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 18 23:43:24 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:43:24 -0000 Subject: OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <947v2s+aov1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9625 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > Keith Fraser wrote: > > > For those not familiar with UK politics, the Labour Party has been in > > power since 1997 (hence the imminent parliamentary election) and > > since then has promoted a nauseatingly PC Cool Brittania full of > > purple cafes, strange modern art and political spin-doctoring. How > > dare they even consider using Harry Potter to promote themselves! > > Hey, it could be worse. You could have Ann Widdecombe in a veela costume. > LOL! Update: I checked the article again and apparently JKR has been approached by Labour for funding. Don't do it, Joanne! Resist the power of the Grin! (Does anyone think Cornelius Fudge is a lash-out at politicians in general?) Keith From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 12:24:49 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:24:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] International Editions FAQ References: <001f01c0814e$1b27cfc0$0100a8c0@mshome.net> Message-ID: <00a701c08212$d5640ce0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9626 Jim wrote, > I'm starting on the international editions FAQ, so I'd like > help from anyone who has information on this subject. > I'm interested in both the cover art and the translations. > Here are the types of questions that I'd like to address: One other area of considerable interest: the www.harry-auf-deutsch.de translating community. It's a sort of "open-source" translation project with hundreds of participants. What they're doing is illegal, but amazing nonetheless. (Having downed HP, they proceeded to take up PoU, DD and DS.) If you ever want a look at some really obsessive fans, just go through their forum boards and read a line-by-line comparison between their own and the official translation. BTW, they don't pass out freebies. Only translators get copies, and the translating berths have apparently been reserved four times over. Fanfic translation is another interesting phenomenon. Cass told me DD and DS have appeared in several languages now. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From fefe at fazekas.hu Fri Jan 19 00:29:19 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (Fefe ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:29:19 -0000 Subject: Intro In-Reply-To: <947uif+9kn7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9481ov+nspm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9627 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cindy Dombrowski" wrote: Welcome ! [...] > Hope you don't go into too much detail about the novels - I don't > want any hints as to what is to come!!! Then you have bad luck ;) So i advise you to read the books quickly because going into the details of the story is EXACTLY what we are doing here... (apart from some heavy copyright law discussions :) So welcome here, have fun, but if you see the words PoA or GoF, stop reading quickly :) bye Fefe From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 12:50:33 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:50:33 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] shippers/URL/mystery? References: Message-ID: <00c301c08216$6c59f4e0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9628 Emily wrote, > I would like to suggest, as a devil's advocate, that it's more fun not to > know. Which is more fun to watch: a soap opera, where everything takes place > on the surface, and everyone is always getting it on, or the X-Files, where > nothing ever, ever happened? I think I prefer *not* to know, thereby > maintaining the potential of all sorts of interesting 'ships. But OTOH I am > gratified to know that I'm not alone in finding Sires intriguing... ;) Actually, as much fun as it is to joke about, I think reading fanfic has actually given me a new sort of passion for literature (and not just Jo's). Watching people write a book, getting to chatter with the authors, beta-reading, contemplating (in one's secret heart of hearts) some little project of one's own--that makes reading a whole different experience. The world of fanfic has shown me that a books don't just turn up in cabbage patches; they're part of somebody's life and personality. They're also something anybody (even me!) could do. Just having that feeling gave my last re-read of A Farewell to Arms a completely different feel. If nothing else, because I was suddenly reading prose that NOT just anybody (least of all me!) could do. So I'm all for fanfic--at least so long as *my* wife doesn't start swooning over that gaunt guy with the dirty hair ... Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From malinaschick at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 00:51:43 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 19:51:43 -0500 Subject: Hello! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9629 Hi all! My name is Steph, and I'm a teenager in high school. I was recommended this list by a friend of mine (hi kelley!) because on my Sports Night club I was complaining about how I needed a group to discuss Harry with. She said this was her favorite and that it was a really good list and thought I'd like it. I can't wait to get into the action, ask Kelley, I'm a talker. :) @~~~ Steph "Right, well I'd better kick the bucket then." -Hermione _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From yael_pou at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 01:03:12 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:03:12 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Intro References: <947uif+9kn7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9630 Hi and welcome! ----- Original Message ----- From: Cindy Dombrowski Hope you don't go into too much detail about the novels - I don't want any hints as to what is to come!!! Cindy Ooh, you're in trouble. Knowing what is in the third book, reading even the slightest debate on what the characters should be wearing is going to ruin the whole book for you, unless you're willing to give up the surprise ending. And don't take the Harry Potter obsession quiz yet either. It, too, contains questions that will damage your enjoyment of the first read. Probably the best thing for you is to read the books ardently and get into the debates after you've finished them. Not that we have any objection to having you here. It is quite possible to know you're obsessed by the end of the first chapter of Philosopher's Stone. You are welcome to stay, if you'd like, but it would just ruin the books for you. yael *who is seriously considering buying the books in a second language just so she could pass the obsession test. sniff.* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 00:54:50 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:54:50 -0000 Subject: Obession Quiz and Shipping personality test In-Reply-To: <946m61+n59a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94838q+u5qs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9631 Amy wrote: "It strikes me that you could devise a personality test in which shipping leanings reveal deep elements of one's character. The same way we all know that you can tell what kind of person you are by which Beatle you like best. "John with a bit of George," Hmmm...George and a bit of John. I don't suppose you could point me to one of these Beatles tests... Anyway back to the topic. I am proud to say that I scored 82% on the HP obsession Quiz. (84% if you count that I dressed up for Harry and am a teenager but not an adult.) I think that is (un?)healthily obessesed not to mention dangerously close to Penny's score (I'm kidding!) As far as a Shipping personality test I think this would be interesting. I've certainly learned a lot from our shipper debates (wars?) in the past. Does anyone know how one would go about it? Scott From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Fri Jan 19 00:59:49 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 18 Jan 2001 16:59:49 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where's the lake? (was Harry Potter Obsession . . .) Message-ID: <20010119005949.24218.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9632 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Jan 19 01:13:18 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:13:18 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! In-Reply-To: <947v2s+aov1@eGroups.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010118165458.00c99340@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9633 At 11:43 PM 1/18/01 +0000, Keith Fraser wrote: >LOL! Update: I checked the article again and apparently JKR has been >approached by Labour for funding. Don't do it, Joanne! Resist the >power of the Grin! Wouldn't it be hilarious if Jo turned out to be a Torry. :) >(Does anyone think Cornelius Fudge is a lash-out >at politicians in general?) Of course he is... I like Tony Blair and I would be Labour if I were a Briton, but I think this whole "Cool Britainia" thing is the worst idea since "Doggie Ice Cream" (which my dog hated). I like Britiain the way it is... No one asked them to be "cool"! Do I hear a Torry tidal wave approaching?? Well, sorry to diverge from Harry... Anyway, I doubt JKR will take political sides... She didn't in *our* presidential race, though Harry's name was invoked by both campaigns. -- Dave From fefe at fazekas.hu Fri Jan 19 01:06:47 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (=?iso-8859-1?q?Zsolt_Felf=F6ldi?=) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:06:47 -0000 Subject: I changed from nick to full name Message-ID: <9483v7+5pr5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9634 Hi ! Seeing that most of the active members uses his/her full name, i decided to do so too. So i didn't want to hide away from the howlers :), i just changed to my real name. Zsolt Felf?ldi (Fefe) From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 01:08:25 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:08:25 -0000 Subject: Intro In-Reply-To: <947uif+9kn7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948429+rd3b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9635 Cindy Dombrowski wrote: > Well, I'm new to this forum and to HP... I started reading #1 last > Friday and now I'm 1/2 way through #2. I can't wait to start #3 :) > > I am 24 yrs old and am so happy to find this forum for ADULTS :) I > was tooling around on the web and found lots of sites for kids and > was not impressed ;) Glad there is an adult forum to discuss the > books. > > Hope you don't go into too much detail about the novels - I don't > want any hints as to what is to come!!! > > Cindy Hi, Welcome to the Group! (We sure are gaining lots of new members aren't we...) There, now that I've welcomed you I feel it is time you should leave. Go! Get outta here! Scat! Actually I'm not trying to be rude at all but you see if you've not read all for books we could easily give something important away. (We've not used Spoilers in ages.) I would recommend waiting until you've read all the books before delving to deeply into this club. It would be a shame if we ruined the suprise of either PoA (my personal favourite) or GoF for anyone. Anywho Happy Reading! Scott From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Fri Jan 19 01:22:04 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 18 Jan 2001 17:22:04 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 26 - The Second Task Message-ID: <20010119012204.26082.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9636 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 01:26:27 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:26:27 -0000 Subject: Ginny and Colin and student numbers In-Reply-To: <947qe0+n4e4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948543+j0d7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9637 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: Steve:"The books says that they jumped a foot into the air. Now we all know and assume that they didn't REALLY jump a foot off the ground. In fact, no one really even leaves the ground at all when they do that jump in surprise thing. But JKR writes it that way be cause Harry feels it like that. There are quite a few other examples of this in the books. Now that seems to me to support the theory that many of the "big numbers" mentioned--the two hundred Slytherin supporters, the hundreds of Christmas turkeys, the seating for 1200 people at the Yule Ball-- are all just coming from Harry's subjective point of view." That's really straining for a reason to discount evidence of larger numbers. You can choose your own evidence that way. A casual observation that Hagrid "jumped a foot" (where I come from you hear the expression "jumped a mile"; I never held anyone's powers of observation cheap because they used it) is far different than the straight declaration that there were a hundred tables set for twelve at the Yule Ball. I don't think it's difficult to distinguish when JKR is assuming the mantle of the omniscient narrator compared with Harry's personal POV. The high, low, and middle number proponents all have something to argue with. I'm a middle, 450-500. It doesn't appear that JKR paid a lot of attention to that kind of continuity when she sat down to write the stories. [There are precedents. Conan Doyle was notoriously careless about those sorts of things, sparking about a hundred years of debate. My _Annotated Sherlock Holmes_ is about three and a half inches thick.] In each of these cases Harry would have reason to see a larger > number than there were and JKR writes it that way. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > which doesn't have a Colin Creevey page...yet > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 01:31:13 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:31:13 -0000 Subject: DrMM's obsession quiz - and a solution In-Reply-To: <016101c0810d$9c882560$1d3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <9485d1+4p1i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9638 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > I feel passably sane. I'm only 70% obsessed! > > I'll just remind anyone with 90+% scores that the Flying Ford Clinic has a special offer on until March. Only 13 Galleons for a three week incarceration in the Azkaban wing, a mere 4 Galleons for an intensive session in the Dursley 'cupboard under the stairs' isolation chamber or a paltry 3 Knuts for a complete Memory Charm brainwipe and free copy of Danielle Steel's latest potboiler. > You must've gotten a great deal on those Steele potboilers, Neil! BTW, how much to rent the flying Ford Anglia for a day? From mschub at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 01:39:47 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (mschub at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:39:47 -0000 Subject: Thought of this last night... Message-ID: <9485t3+gdif@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9639 On the back of the wizard card, it says that Dumbledore is known for "...his work on alchemy with his partner Nicholas Flamel." (Forgive me if the specifics are off, I'm going from memory.) Now, Flamel is 650-some-odd years old. Dumbledore, we know, is around 150. We also know that wizards live longer than humans, but not THAT much (I always got the impression that they lived to be about 200). What I'm getting at is that Flamel had to perfect the SS/PS around 200 years before Dumbledore was even BORN in order for him to still be alive. How does that make them partners? I had another question, too, and I remember it was a better question than that one. Unfortunately, that's ALL I remember about it, that it was better than the one above. As to what the actual QUESTION was, I'm completely clueless... -Mike From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 01:43:06 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:43:06 -0000 Subject: OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010118165458.00c99340@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <94863a+djla@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9640 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > Wouldn't it be hilarious if Jo turned out to be a Tory. :) unfortunately this won't happen, she's already stated that she's a socialist (hence has no reason to support New Labour or the Conservatives). > I like Tony Blair and I would be Labour if I were a Briton, You've obviously never had to buy petrol in Britain. > I think this whole "Cool Britainia" thing is the worst idea since > "Doggie Ice Cream" (which my dog hated). I like Britiain the way > it is... No one asked them to be "cool"! Agreed on the anti-cool Britannia thing, but Britain really is quite cool nevertheless. > Do I hear a Tory tidal wave approaching?? No, at present the Tories couldn't find their arses with both hands and an atlas. > Well, sorry to diverge from Harry... Anyway, I doubt JKR > will take political sides... Agreed. Apart from anything else, it could alienate part of her fan base. Dai From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 01:50:46 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 01:50:46 -0000 Subject: (careering OT) copyright In-Reply-To: <004501c0820b$f4f63080$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <9486hm+q673@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9641 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > Whether using such an illegal copy is in every case *immoral,* is a related > but somewhat different question--and I think people need to answer it on > their own. I'm not entirely sure what *I* think, but I'm absolutely sure > that it's the kind of question that's difficult to discuss without scalping > each other. On a question of copyright morals, I wonder how many people on the list can honestly say that 100% (or even 25%) of the software on their computers is 100% legal. Particularly with students in halls of residence, etc. it has been my experience that software gets swapped and shared on a huge scale (i will give no details as they may tend to incriminate me). Perhaps people should think about that before they condemn fiction copyright infringers. Of course people may think that they have more of a right to rip-off huge companies than authors (even if they did gross ?20m last year). Dai From randujar at wellesley.edu Fri Jan 19 01:55:42 2001 From: randujar at wellesley.edu (Rosa M. Andujar) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:55:42 -0500 Subject: hello! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9642 Hello, I'm new to this list. I'm a sophomore at Wellesley College and probably like everyone else, am extremely obsessed with the world of Harry Potter (Well, I only got 80% on the Obsession Quiz...). I love to talk about most anything and everything in the books, as I've read them several times and am now beginning Harry Potter y la Piedra Filosofal. I've also read various fanfics and consider them to be an essential part of my obsession. Anyway, I look forward to participating in all the discussions! -Rosa Rosa M. Andjar Wellesley College Wellesley, MA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "No me mires los ojos. Ni me mires las manos. Ni mires la hermosura que pudiera tener. Mrame, ms adentro con los ojos del alma. Mira mis sentimientos y mi modo de ser. La belleza del cuerpo, como flor, se marchita. Pero siempre perdura la belleza interior. Por eso, no, no me mires los ojos. Ni me mires las manos. Que esta es slo la casa en donde vivo yo. - Julie Ruffino From storylady at bards.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jan 19 02:16:24 2001 From: storylady at bards.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Maginnis) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:16:24 -0000 Subject: Another Newbie Message-ID: <002101c081bd$d3ff4d60$1187893e@heather> No: HPFGUIDX 9643 Hi all, yep, you guessed it, I'm another addition to what looks like a busy and fun list, read all the HP books to date and think they're great, can't wait for the movie :) hugs StoryLady From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Fri Jan 19 02:30:43 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 18 Jan 2001 18:30:43 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hyacinth Bucket as inspiration for Petunia? Message-ID: <20010119023043.21084.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9644 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 19 02:36:24 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 20:36:24 -0600 Subject: That annoying Copyright topic (Again!) References: <9486hm+q673@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A67A828.5627184A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9645 Hi everyone -- Dai Evans wrote: > On a question of copyright morals, I wonder how many people on the list > can honestly say that 100% (or even 25%) of the software on their > computers is 100% legal. Particularly with students in halls of > residence, etc. it has been my experience that software gets swapped > and shared on a huge scale (i will give no details as they may tend to > incriminate me). Perhaps people should think about that before they > condemn fiction copyright infringers. Well, the copyright laws get broken each & everyday. Lots of people never even realize they've been technically violating copyright laws. It's easy to do. I myself will confess that I have probably copied large enough portions of books to fall way outside the bounds of "fair use" from time to time (for scholarship purposes, of course!). I was also frankly infuriated beyond measure when I recently took in some 1930s fairy tales books to a Kinko's and the employees refused to reproduce them for me (I wanted to frame copies & rebind the books for my child to have later). They did direct me to a self-service color copier & told me very smugly that I should be aware that I was "infringing the copyright laws" (to which I retorted that I was an attorney & hardly needed a lecture on copyright laws from a Kinko's employee). Like Aberforth's Goat so aptly said, it's a moral issue that each person must make in individual cases. IMO, there's a moral difference between copying 75% of a non-fiction publication for your use in scholarship in the comfort of your own home and downloading an entire novel from the internet without paying for it (even though the *law* recognizes no distinction between these infringement examples). BUT, even if the moral decisions are in each individual's hands, the *legal* distinctions are clear. My main purpose with my posts of late is to be sure that people understand that these pirated versions are *illegal* and why. Some of the people who have commented have appeared to not understand *why* these versions are a problem, and I think it's important for people to fully undertand the issues. Then, if they choose to download them & use them anyway, that's their choice. It's also frankly a hot button issue for those of us on the list who are published authors (like Peg) or who just hope to be (many of us I'm sure). Most importantly, it's simply not prudent for the list moderators to allow a message with an URL to illegal pirated versions to be housed in our Message Archives. It's possible that the co-moderators could face some liability for that sort of thing. I hope all of you will take a second & at least consider that part of my strong stance is a protective defensive stance from that standpoint. If you wish to incur a risk of liability individually, that's fine. But, *I'm* not willing to risk it. I'm reasonably sure the other moderators share that sentiment. Penny From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 02:57:15 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:57:15 -0000 Subject: copyrights OT In-Reply-To: <9486hm+q673@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948aeb+uue5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9646 Dai wrote: "On a question of copyright morals, I wonder how many people on the list can honestly say that 100% (or even 25%) of the software on their computers is 100% legal." Well you're probably right, but I do try. I don't guess Napster is exactly legal or CD burning (which I don't use) for that matter. This doesn't however stop many from using them. The fact is in my Technology class last year the teacher was using a CD burner and I (in my most Hermione-like voice) said "Isn't that illegal?" and he said "Oh yeah but nobody'll know." I remember hearing on the radio the other morning that there was a new law pending in Britain which would charge an extra tax on CD burners and other electronic equipment. The money would then be passed on to the artists in an attempt to compensate for possible losses. Looking at that I'm not sure how it ties into the arguement at all. I'll just put my faith in Penny and Heidi's advice... Scott From fefe at fazekas.hu Fri Jan 19 03:06:08 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (=?iso-8859-2?q?Zsolt_Felf=F6ldi?=) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:06:08 -0000 Subject: Laws, morals, hypocriticism (was Re: (careering OT) copyright) In-Reply-To: <9486hm+q673@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948av0+416u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9647 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: Hi ! > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" > wrote: > > > Whether using such an illegal copy is in every case *immoral,* is a > related > > but somewhat different question--and I think people need to answer > it on > > their own. I'm not entirely sure what *I* think, but I'm absolutely > sure > > that it's the kind of question that's difficult to discuss without > scalping > > each other. > > On a question of copyright morals, I wonder how many people on the > list can honestly say that 100% (or even 25%) of the software on > their computers is 100% legal. Particularly with students in halls of > residence, etc. it has been my experience that software gets swapped > and shared on a huge scale (i will give no details as they may tend > to incriminate me). Perhaps people should think about that before > they condemn fiction copyright infringers. Of course people may think > that they have more of a right to rip-off huge companies than authors > (even if they did gross ?20m last year). I think that we can NOT say the final truth about this topic, because it is considered really different in different countries and cultures. In my country, everyone admits that sometimes he/she does things that are illegal, and we all know that probably there isn't a human being older than 10 years who hasn't ever committed anything against the law. The most popular people in our media all admit this, and they all have funny stories about smuggling and stealing minor things as a child. I would never trust in people who claim that they never did anything unlawful. If you handle this topic as a taboo, it still remains true, and maybe the most important of the few good heritages of our 40 years of socialism is that we can live without taboos and hypocriticism. Except most of our politicians, who, by the way, steal millions shamelessly, and they would never consider retiring or even admitting their failure. This all is my own humble opinion, and i would never judge anyone from a few letters. One more thing: I have a friend who is half Russian (born in Leningrad), and he told me that Russians really don't care about copyright laws, even the government is shutting its eyes. Btw he told me that notorious URL (the e-text search engine). Of course i won't repeat it, all i want to say is that it was Russian and it wasn't long at all, not some hidden pirate site, so it is probably sponsored (or at least tolerated) by the government. (I didn't tell too much about the URL, Mr. Moderator, did i ? :) Btw on the server of our biggest dormitory, there are downloadable e-copies of most of the books we need, mostly written by our teachers. They all know it, but they don't care... OK, enough preaching for today :) bye Fefe (*counting until ten before posting it* :) From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 19 03:11:19 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:11:19 -0000 Subject: Hyacinth Bucket as inspiration for Petunia? In-Reply-To: <20010119023043.21084.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <948b8n+i16e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9648 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Star wrote: > Hehe, I've actually seen that show at my grandma's house! It was great! > ~Star~ > > > On Wed, 17 January 2001, "Simon Biber" wrote: > > > > > Ah yes, I loved Patricia Routledge in KuA. That mystery show she was in > > afterwards was crap. > > > > Simon. > > > > > Petunia and Lily put me in mind of Hyacinth Bucket (social climber > > > meeting above description, in British sitcom Keeping Up Appearances) > > > and her sisters, who all have flower names also. (Bucket is, of > > > course, pronounced Bouquet...at least by Hyacinth) > > > > > > Another case of plagiarism? > > > > > > Amy Z > > > > > > But Richard Bucket (er...Bouquet) is nothing like Uncle Vernon! Even Onslo is nothing like Uncle Vernon! >From the description of Aunt Petunia, I always pictured her as being giraffe-like...horse-faced, blond with a long neck useful for peering over neighbor's fences. Uncle Vernon is very bull like. And of course, Dudley is piggish. It would be funny if Harry accidently transfigures them into their respective 'animals'. Milz From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 03:15:34 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:15:34 -0000 Subject: copyrights OT In-Reply-To: <948aeb+uue5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948bgm+ghup@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9649 > Well you're probably right, but I do try. I don't guess Napster is > exactly legal or CD burning (which I don't use) for that matter. I wrote the above but it should be "isn't" instead of is... Thanks Scott From pbnesbit at msn.com Fri Jan 19 03:17:35 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:17:35 -0000 Subject: Pomfrey (filk) In-Reply-To: <947qik+ac64@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948bkf+k8us@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9650 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Pomfrey > > (to the tune of Born Free) > > (The Scene: Madam Pomfrey's infirmary, late at night. It is deserted > save for one lone occupant. Once again ? and who knows why this > time ? HARRY POTTER is confined to bed) > > HARRY POTTER > Pomfrey > A victim of cursing > Requires much nursing > Which she is equipped to provide > > Pomfrey > Whether recouping from Voldy > Or a common cold, she > Is always there at my side > > Pomfrey > With her I can calm be > On her ward I stay more > Often than at Gryffindor > > Pomfrey > Her manner won't charm you > But she can re-arm you > If skeletal parts disappear > > Pomfrey > She loves peace and quiet > She'll read you the riot > Act if your noise reaches her ear > > Pomfrey > I know it's now lights out > But I once more must light out > For an Emergency! > > (HARRY dons his invisibility cloak and exits) > > - CMC Caius-- Where *do* you come up with these?? Keep up the filk work, I'm really enjoying them! (I'm also envious as heck!) Parker From homanm at umich.edu Fri Jan 19 03:18:39 2001 From: homanm at umich.edu (Meg ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:18:39 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar In-Reply-To: <003d01c08209$56844740$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <948bmf+j1h9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9651 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > That's about the same calculation that a lot of us made, ending up with a > about 400 students. However, there is some conflicting evidence. One of the > most obvious is in PoA, where Harry sees 200 slithery green Slytherins at > the match. Assuming all four houses are of the same size, that makes 800 > students. > > We were still puzzling over that one (some people suggesting a bunch of > alumni had flown in for the match), when Jo gave an interview (or answered a > chat question--can't remember which) saying there are *1000* students at > Hogwarts. ----------------------------------- I just wanted to put in my 2 cents with this student population issue. There are 5 girls and 3 boys that we know of in Harry's year in Gryffindor, but how can we assume that the class sizes are uniform? That would mean that every year, the British wizarding population has an absolutely static birthrate, with no more than X number of kids being born so that there are the same number of eleven year olds at Hogwarts as twelve year olds as thirteen year olds etc. Plus, if you take into account muggle wizarding births (like Hermione) the wizarding population birth rate gets even smaller. This definately doesn't make any sense, what with all we know about the many wizarding families and there being enough of them so that there are lots of completely pureblood kids running around. Plus, if we assume that every class in Hogwarts is the same size, we'd also be saying that every year there are 10 wizarding kids born who have brave personalities, 10 who are studious, 10 who are devious, and 10 who are loyal. What are the odds of that actually happening? What happens if there are 11 loyal kids born in a particular year? Or 27 studious ones? Are 10 allowed to come to Hogwarts and the left-overs have to be home-schooled? Class sizes at muggle schools aren't uniform, and personality traits definately aren't either, so I don't know why we should assume that the opposite is true in the wizarding world. Maybe Harry's year is so small because in 1980 only 8 wizarding kids were born with Gryffindor personalities, but there could be any number in the other houses. I'm just going to tack this onto the end of my message. I sent it out the other day, but it didn't get posted on egroups because of the technical difficulties the site was having. Sorry about the double post for anyone who's already gotten this. I just wanted to let you all know that in the February 2001 issue of Harper's Bazaar (the one with Sarah Jessica Parker on the cover) there's cover story called "Women in Power: 5 Leaders Who Are Shaping Your World" and on the first page of the story (p. 224) is a HUGE (2 page) spread of JK Rowling, photographed at the salt piles in New York city in one of the most dramatically stunning skirts I've ever seen. Anyhow, it's a great portrait, she looks very pretty and stylish, and in the little blurb-interview she reveals, among other things, that her highest accolade is "when children are furious that [she hasn't] got book five ready," and that Ron Weasley is named in a wierd indirect way after Ron Wood from the Rolling Stones. She says, "Ron was the name I couldn't explain, except that I've always associated it with friendship. Then I remembered reading, ages ago, Keith Richards saying, 'Ronnie,' as in Ron Wood of the Rolling Stones, 'is always there when you need him.'" I think that the fact that the name Ron has strong connotations of friendship and loyalty for JKR might influence the debate on whether Ron will ever be tempted to betray Harry. I really reccommend checking out the portrait in Bazaar the next time you're in a supermarket line or Border's Books. The photographer said that she "attempted to match the landscapes with each woman's field in order to create sweeping 'postcard' images. It was fashion with a journalistic slant." It's really well done; all of the images in the portfolio are outstanding [says the student of fashion history and photography]. Meg From fefe at fazekas.hu Fri Jan 19 03:30:02 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (=?iso-8859-2?q?Zsolt_Felf=F6ldi?=) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 03:30:02 -0000 Subject: That annoying Copyright topic (Again!) In-Reply-To: <3A67A828.5627184A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <948cbq+hdvu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9652 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: Hi Penny & Moderators! > Most importantly, it's simply not prudent for the list moderators to > allow a message with an URL to illegal pirated versions to be housed in > our Message Archives. It's possible that the co-moderators could face > some liability for that sort of thing. I hope all of you will take a > second & at least consider that part of my strong stance is a protective > defensive stance from that standpoint. If you wish to incur a risk of > liability individually, that's fine. But, *I'm* not willing to risk it. > I'm reasonably sure the other moderators share that sentiment. > I absolutely agree, and excuse me for not thinking about that. It was OK that you deleted my "illegal" message. The one thing in which i don't agree with you, is that i still think it's morally absolutely acceptable to download an e-copy of a book that i have BOUGHT and to use it only for convenient searching of the text. It is illegal, of course, as i told in my original message, so that no one will download it while thinking it's legal :) I wrote down my opinion about this in my previous post, and i didn't want to insult you (or anyone else, except our politicians :) because you have created a wonderful group, and i understand your point of view because you are a lawyer, you'd like to be a published writer, etc. I have another point of view, another opinion, that's all. bye Fefe From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Fri Jan 19 02:55:18 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:55:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] hello! References: Message-ID: <008101c081c3$445faaa0$2256d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9653 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rosa M. Andujar" > Hello, > I'm new to this list. I'm a sophomore at Wellesley College and probably > like everyone else, am extremely obsessed with the world of Harry Potter > (Well, I only got 80% on the Obsession Quiz...). I love to talk about > most anything and everything in the books, as I've read them several times > and am now beginning Harry Potter y la Piedra Filosofal. I've also read > various fanfics and consider them to be an essential part of my obsession. > Anyway, I look forward to participating in all the discussions! > > -Rosa > > Rosa M. Andjar > Wellesley College > Wellesley, MA Hi there to a fellow Massachusite! and welcome. I also live in mass outside 495 and to the south. There is talk going around and about this club on trying to get together in regional gatherings. There is a poll open on the home page to attempt to identify who lives where (very broad regional categories, including international regions) from there we'll try to determine if there would be enough interest in actually meeting some of the members from each regional area. Here's the link: http://www.egroups.com/surveys/HPforGrownups?id=495559 I know of a couple of other Massachusetts HP'ers...as I said...welcome carole From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 19 04:15:37 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:15:37 -0600 Subject: Location Poll (OT question for Texans) References: <008101c081c3$445faaa0$2256d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A67BF69.1344344C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9654 Hi -- I just found the location poll thanks to Carole's message. Question: are you Texans putting yourself in the Southeastern US or Southwestern US? I think of western & southern TX as more "southwest" in character, but the eastern portions of the state seem to fit better with the culture & norms of the southeastern US. Just curious. You can email me offlist. Being Texan, I almost think one of the categories *should* have been: US: Texas! LOL! Penny From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 04:38:09 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 04:38:09 -0000 Subject: Obession Quiz and Shipping personality test In-Reply-To: <94838q+u5qs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948gbh+6gug@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9655 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Amy wrote: > > "It strikes me that you could devise a personality test in which > shipping leanings reveal deep elements of one's character. The > same way we all know that you can tell what kind of person you are by > which Beatle you like best. Hmm, Scott... I have to wonder about this. A few weeks ago I made broad sweeping generalizations about ship prefs. Since then I've chatted with R/Hers who don't like Ron and identify with Hermione (supposedly an H/H characteristic), and an H/Her who like me is a huge fan of Lucy Maud Montgomery (the intersection of fans with any ship preferences tends R/H). Also, like Yael, I have multiple ship preferences. In addition to H/H, I'm starting to lean towards reformed-D/G. I guess I'm F/A by default (since I'm writing it), but really don't care about its fate in canon. The only thing that *would* annoy me is if Angelina gets picked off without a sentence or two of explanation, as she's currently the most developed of the three Gryffindor Chasers... I expect better things from JKR than the infamous horror/sci-fi movie cliche (illustrated at its best in the movie Jurassic Park--black guy gets eaten before the opening credits fully roll). Ship preferences shift as well. I've talked to ex-H/Hers who are now firmly R/H. I used to be strongly anti-H/C, but that sentiment has since been replaced with anti-H/G, my current Least Favorite Ship. Who knows? I'm having so fun writing "Trouble in Paradise"... maybe I'll enjoy my visit on the other side so much that I'll take up permanent residence... Right. ;-) BTW, many thanks to John (Crazy Ivan), Jeralyn the Voicelady, and Carole for plugging my crazy experiment here and over at the PoU list. Very sweet of you. --Ebony From kathleen at carr.org Fri Jan 19 02:56:39 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 21:56:39 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Abstaining from fanfic Message-ID: <200101190438.f0J4cnC28224@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9656 Well, Steve and Amanda and all you others who don't read fanfic, I admire your willpower. I was about to lose it waiting for book 4 when I stumbled upon the world of HP fanfic...and now I'm almost as addicted to the fanfic as I am to the actual books. (Of course, I also swore to myself that I would never start *writing* fanfic either...I think it's safe to say I have very little willpower where HP is concerned!) Kathy (AKA Elanor Gamgee) From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 04:41:35 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:41:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Nicolas Flamel References: <947dsb+p3qm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A67C57F.FC3D5A5E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9657 eggplant88 at hotmail.com wrote: > Rowling didn't just make up the name Nicolas Flamel he was a real > historic figure, he was an alchemist who spent his life looking, > unsuccessful, for the Philosopher's Stone (not the sorcerer's > stone!), he even had a wife named Perenelle. An old boyfriend of mine, who was into alchemy, gave me a couple of links for information on Nicolas Flamel, which I had posted to the list a while back. Worthy of note is that honest-to-god alchemists (there's still a few) think that Flamel may have been one of the only (if not the only) man to actually achieve the Stone. If I can figure out how, I'll try to find the message number, if anyone's interested. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 04:47:40 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:47:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] To fanfic or not to fanfic References: <946lpp+h9i4@eGroups.com> <3A672EC9.CA1CA429@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A67C6EB.2EA4643E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9658 yael-pou wrote: > There are fics out there, good ones, that do not occur during Harry's Hogwarts years, and have almost nothing in common with the canon plot. Take PoU for instance, there is no chance it would get you confused about the HP main-stream. And when i say 'take PoU' i mean it literally. It's not just a good fic, it's a great work of art. After that, you can start on ASA and STNE, both fit into the same 'wonderful but harmless' categories. No, you misunderstand my reason. It has nothing to do with getting confused about the plot. It has to do with purity of character perception. If I read fanfic I'd inevitably get fuzzy on character development and motivations, because the "feel" I got from a fanfic version of a character would blend over into the "feel" I get from the book version of the character. I'm into experiencing JKR's vision and trying to figure out *her* characters, and until I have the whole vision I don't want to muddy the waters. I'm not saying there isn't great fanfic out there. --Amanda From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 19 04:55:36 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long, Jr.) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:55:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: Howdy; ponderings (rather lengthy) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9659 Since I know everybody has been waiting with bated breath, I just thought I'd let you know that I've ordered my HP books from Chapters.ca and now have a couple of weeks to try to catch up with the archives until they arrive. :-) Thanks again to folks for answering my questions about US vs. UK versions of the books. *** That done, I thought I'd introduce myself. "Hello, my name is Marvin and I'm a Harry Potter addict." "Hi, Marvin!" *** It all started around new year's...my mom had given me the first 2 HP books for Xmas and I was regarding them rather skeptically (oh come ON, they're kiddy books!) until I happened to get really sick (stomach bug) and, casting about for something to read, opened SS and was immediately hooked. I devoured the first two books in two days and then went through another couple of days of withdrawal until I was able to convince my wife to go out and buy me books 3 and 4 so that I would have something to occupy my mind as my fever raged on. I plowed through them and was finally sated...GoF has a great cliffhanger/new beginning ending, the sort you can savor for a while. Anyway...I'm 31, have a BA in Philosophy, and work as a sort of combination product-support/development/salesperson for a computer-based service provided by the Texas Association of School Boards. I dabble in martial arts (tai chi for now) and am trying to teach myself to play the guitar. Married for 3+ years, no kids, not planning on any. PONDERINGS (I'm sure I'll rehash something somebody's said--but poring through the archive just takes so long, and I'm impatient when I get all worked up over books.) * I wish JKR would offer us some sympathetic characters from Slytherin House. The one-note nastines of Malfoy and company is getting old and unconvincing. I've known ambitious rule-benders who were not wantonly cruel, and it would only make sense for somebody in Slytherin to be sufficiently concerned about his/her reputation to try to stop Malfoy et al. from giving the rest a bad name. * Snape is very interesting. I see him as a kind of aristocrat who is loyal to principles of honor and decency but who feels conflicted about associating with and teaching the "lower orders"--mudbloods and so on. He probably sympathizes with Voldemort's dislike of muggles but understands that V's methods are evil and to be eschewed--I suspect that he went through an enormous crisis of character to reach this conclusion (something that would make a good story in a future HP book, methinks) and, though he dislikes Harry and gravitates towards aristocratic-minded folk (Slytherins) he won't betray the good guys--his own goodness was too hard-won for that. * The stag, James Potter's animal form and Harry's patronus, is an old symbol of love and loyalty. I seem to recall that there is a Scottish clan crest that consists of a stag and the motto "Amo" (I Love). * I think that Dumbledore resists giving Snape the DADA job because he doesn't want Hogwarts' students to be too competent in the dark arts. Snape would teach the class *too well,* making Hogwarts student more vulnerable to the big V's temptations rather than less. I think that Dumbledore's convinced that resisting Voldemort is a matter of character and unity more than sheer magical power. * I suspect that one of the reasons the Dursley's haven't turned Harry into a total little sh*t is the strength of their counterexample. They are such awfully revolting people that I imagine Harry recoils whenever he's tempted to behave in a way that reminds him of them. On the other hand, I think that one of the reasons he was eligible for Slytherin has little to do with Voldemort and more to do with years of pent-up resentment over the treatment he received in the Dursley household. Great talent and great resentment sometimes give birth to great ambition and little regard for rules (after all, the Dursley's follow none of the rules of decency regarding their treatment of *him*). Ok, that's reminiscent of Tom Riddle, but that's just similarity of circumstances; what I mean is that his eligibility for Slytherin doesn't derive from any bits of Voldy that got stuck in him as an infant. He has a comparable personality, but superior character. (But we knew that. Duh!) * I agree with the theory that by taking Harry's blood, Voldemort has made himself vulnerable. I don't believe that Harry is any more immune to danger; still, Voldy might be forced to resort something other than the standard death curse...like maybe a knife in the back..... * I think that Neville will acquit himself grandly at some future date. * And Fred and George will become suppliers of discrete but lethally ironic arms for the forces of good--whoopee mines, anybody? :-) Marvin Long Austin, Texas From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 04:57:53 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:57:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Copyrights References: <3A676F51.F440D80F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A67C951.8FE96253@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9660 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I don't think you would find this nearly so ridiculous if you'd take a moment & > put yourself in the shoes of a published author. An author's income is derived > from sales of the books. How would you feel if you learned that someone had > scanned the book & uploaded the scanned version to the internet so that it was > available for free to anyone who wanted to download it? I must second the emotion here--imagine my surprise some years ago when I went to the website of my medieval recreation group, and found the big kingdom achievement which I had drawn was the opening page, with no credit given and the statement that anyone could use the artwork if they wanted. Then it showed up somewhere else credited to a different artist (who had traced it). I don't even make money off it, but I drew the thing and I didn't appreciate it being out there for any takers without my permission. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 05:02:07 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:02:07 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where's the lake? (was Harry Potter Obsession . . .) References: <20010119005949.24218.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <3A67CA4E.D9B91BE1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9661 Star wrote: > As long as we are talking about the lake, here's my question: How big is the darn lake?! I'd like input on this too. Being from Texas, my ideas of "river" and "lake" are what my husband, who grew up in New York state and California, calls "pond/puddle" and "stream." [If it has any water at all and runs even part of the year = river; if it has any water at all, standing, even part of the year = lake (unless you can spit across it, then I guess it's a pond)]. So I bet I'm underestimating the size. I've only seen a few Texas lakes big enough to sail on. --Amanda From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 19 05:08:28 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:08:28 -0000 Subject: leather aversion, fanfic, etc./Bean In-Reply-To: <947qpb+3njv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948i4c+udgr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9662 > > > > Cassie > wondering why nobody ever puts Harry in leather... Harry well dressed is in LLBean gear From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 05:11:26 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:11:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: (careering OT) copyright References: <9486hm+q673@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A67CC7E.10EDAE78@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9663 Dai Evans wrote: > On a question of copyright morals, I wonder how many people on the > list can honestly say that 100% (or even 25%) of the software on > their computers is 100% legal. Well, I paid for all mine. Including my two wordprocessing packages and PageMaker, which weren't cheap. Including the games (except the Blue's Clues freebies from their webpage). > Perhaps people should think about that before > they condemn fiction copyright infringers. I did. I have refused offers of illegal software copies before, and will again, for the same reasons. The immorality of theft remains, regardless of the scope or size of the stealee. One of my favorite old jokes has a similar punch: Man to woman in bar, "Will you sleep with me for a million dollars?" Woman, "Yes." Man, "Will you sleep with me for twenty dollars?" Woman (outraged), "What kind of a woman do you think I am?" Man, "We've established that, we're haggling about price." --Amanda From mschub at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 05:27:16 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:27:16 -0000 Subject: Howdy; ponderings (rather lengthy) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <948j7k+ll2q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9664 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long, Jr." wrote: > * Snape is very interesting. I see him as a kind of aristocrat who is > loyal to principles of honor and decency but who feels conflicted about > associating with and teaching the "lower orders"--mudbloods and so on. He > probably sympathizes with Voldemort's dislike of muggles but understands > that V's methods are evil and to be eschewed--I suspect that he went > through an enormous crisis of character to reach this conclusion > (something that would make a good story in a future HP book, methinks) > and, though he dislikes Harry and gravitates towards aristocratic-minded > folk (Slytherins) he won't betray the good guys--his own goodness was > too hard-won for that. This is dead on with how I saw him, only I've never really been able to word it properly. Owe you one, Marvin. -Mike From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 05:26:45 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 23:26:45 -0600 Subject: Message numbers for old Flamel posts Message-ID: <3A67D015.B22B10BC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9665 Okay, I figured out how to search the archives and found these for whoever was asking about Flamel and Flamel/Dumbledore: Message 2648 is a post I forwarded from an old friend, who gave me URLs for some of the interesting names folk had been asking about (like Flamel and Paracelsus). Message 8110 ("Re: Dumbledore & Fannel") is in the middle (I think) of an earlier discussion of why Dumbledore was called Flamel's partner if Flamel had already achieved the Stone. When you look at a message in the archive it'll list all the replies just beneath, by the way. If anyone cares, --Amanda From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 05:32:40 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:32:40 -0000 Subject: OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! In-Reply-To: <94863a+djla@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948jho+rlr7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9666 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook > wrote: > > > I think this whole "Cool Britainia" thing is the worst idea since > > "Doggie Ice Cream" (which my dog hated). I like Britiain the way > > it is... No one asked them to be "cool"! > > Agreed on the anti-cool Britannia thing, but Britain really is quite > cool nevertheless. > Of course; they gave the world the Mini (the original, not BMW's New Beetle wannabe), the Beatles, Monty Python, French and Saunders...and Harry Potter! > > Do I hear a Tory tidal wave approaching?? > > No, at present the Tories couldn't find their arses with both hands > and an atlas. Then they have something in common with our new president. Rumor says that W needs a GPS system and Dick Cheney to find his. From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 19 05:34:06 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:34:06 -0000 Subject: Fanon "ruining" canon (was Obsessiveness quiz)/purity In-Reply-To: <947hco+hh6j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948jke+bv4t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9667 I, too, in order to be pure, have read no fan fiction. Draco remains a miserable, nasty and malicious boy who says incredibly vicious things to Ron, Harry and Hermione, actively tries to get Hagrid fired and his hippogrif murdered, lies to the press in order to discredit Harry...in short, he's vile. Snape remains a teacher who is very abusive and unfair to Harry and the Gryffindors, and has no redeeming qualities. I trust Albus Dumbledore (this is how I'm over the edge, I think of Professor Dumbledore as a real person), so I believe that Snape is no longer a DE. His behavior towards, Harry and towards Sirius Black, was despicable. It's possible that Lupin and Black were lovers -- neither of them makes reference to any female partner/interest --- so that's still a possible situation. Susan (who may read Fan Fiction after the last book is published and there is no more to read..save it for me) From kathleen at carr.org Fri Jan 19 03:53:07 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 22:53:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obession Quiz and Shipping personality test Message-ID: <200101190536.f0J5aJC06194@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9668 Ebony said: >Who knows? I'm having so fun writing "Trouble in Paradise"... maybe >I'll enjoy my visit on the other side so much that I'll take up >permanent residence... Ah, yes, Ebony, it's not too late! Come toward the light... Kathy (AKA Elanor Gamgee) From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Jan 19 05:54:42 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:54:42 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Location Poll (OT question for Texans) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9669 In a message dated 1/18/2001 11:30:46 PM EST, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << I almost think one of the categories *should* have been: US: Texas! LOL! >> Yes! You are so right, Penny! We definitely should have our own "Texas" category! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 19 05:55:32 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:55:32 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: <947q4g+63bf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948ksk+bj43@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9670 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > Repost of Quiz URL: > > http://www.fuuko.com/hpquiz.html > > Have Fun! > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "John Beresford" > wrote: > > I am very interested in taking the > Obsessiveness Quiz. Can someone direct me to where I can find this. What do you MEAN I'm only 51% obsessed! I don't have a therapist, but I have had many discussions about how HP has affected me....! No, I didn't dress up as a character for Halloween but my son did (feeble attempt to get more people to look at his picture and see how adorable he is)... What about the fact that I have the Jim Dale AND Stephen Fry audio tapes? Doesn't that count? Yes, I have the calendar up, but no one mentions if you have POSTERS up...? My partner and I got each other identical HP ornaments for Christmas? Doesn't that count? What about the fact that I sent a friend HP and the SS right before the election with a desperate plea not to vote for Ralph Nader....? What about the fact that my partner and I ordered TWO copies of the Goblet of Fire so that we could read them at the same time? Does it count that we went LOOKING for the Fed Ex truck from Amazon.com and seriously considered driving to town at 10:30 a.m. and buying another copy? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 19 05:57:01 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:57:01 -0000 Subject: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! In-Reply-To: <3A67301B.2AF40A8C@texas.net> Message-ID: <948kvd+bis1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9671 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Keith Fraser wrote: > > > "The Labour Party is said to consider that having Harry Potter on > > their election posters could win them the election." > > Hmmm. Didn't help Gore a lot. I think the Gore/Potter campaign button > picture is still in the files, isn't it? Oh, yes, it did. Gore really won the election From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 19 06:01:40 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:01:40 -0000 Subject: Nicolas Flamel In-Reply-To: <3A67C57F.FC3D5A5E@texas.net> Message-ID: <948l84+sfqn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9672 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > eggplant88 at h... wrote: > > > Rowling didn't just make up the name Nicolas Flamel he was a real > > historic figure, he was an alchemist who spent his life looking, > > unsuccessful, for the Philosopher's Stone (not the sorcerer's > > stone!), he even had a wife named Perenelle. > > An old boyfriend of mine, who was into alchemy, gave me a couple of > links for information on Nicolas Flamel, which I had posted to the list > a while back. Worthy of note is that honest-to-god alchemists (there's > still a few) think that Flamel may have been one of the only (if not the > only) man to actually achieve the Stone. If I can figure out how, I'll > try to find the message number, if anyone's interested. > > --Amanda Which goes to show that JKR is brilliant...I love the fact that Flamel is real,and am more annoyed than ever that they changed PS to SS...! From vderark at bccs.org Fri Jan 19 06:06:20 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:06:20 -0000 Subject: lake musings In-Reply-To: <3A67CA4E.D9B91BE1@texas.net> Message-ID: <948lgs+s78q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9673 > > As long as we are talking about the lake, here's my question: How big is the darn lake?! > This is one more place where JKR is inconsistent. For the map I just put on the Lexicon, I drew it more or less circular and not all that big, mostly to support the idea that Harry and Hermione could have walked around it. But let's face it...if it's big enought to hold an entire village of merpeople and an ecosystem to support it plus a giant squid and enought fish to support IT, the lake's too big to walk around a couple of times without devoting most of the day to it. It just doesn't work. So did they actually circle the lake? No, probably not. They just wandered along the shore nearest the castle. And both JKR and the editors missed the goof. We do know the lake is to the south, or at least that SOME of it is. We do know that part of the lake is near Hogsmeade Station where there is a dock. We know that there is a hole in the base of the cliffs below the castle that provides access to an underground cove, where boats can be grounded on a pebbly beach, and that from there a path leads up to the front doors (double oak doors) of the castle, which face more or less to the west. We do NOT know that the cove is actually under the castle--it just SEEMS to be--and I tend to think it isn't, but it is under the cliffs. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which has a nifty map along with a page about the grounds http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 19 06:07:07 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:07:07 -0000 Subject: Leather aversion...(OTish) In-Reply-To: <001e01c0818a$b8e291a0$e13670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <948lib+shmn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9674 Neil, I am astonished that you have managed to get the whole list discussing warm leather. I am impressed. Susan From vderark at bccs.org Fri Jan 19 06:10:04 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:10:04 -0000 Subject: rumination - grindylow Message-ID: <948lns+mq1m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9675 Who exactly did Lupin take delivery of a grindylow FROM? Is there a service from which you can order Dark Creatures? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 19 06:13:17 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:13:17 -0000 Subject: Where's the lake? (was Harry Potter Obsession . . .) In-Reply-To: <20010119005949.24218.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <948ltt+92og@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9676 My thoughts on this is that the lake can be quite big... When I was in Girl Scout Camp at Camp Teata in upstate New York we were on a lake....it was big enough for rowing, and the big deal swimming test was to swim across it..it took a long time to walk around it..but we did it...... Susan From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 06:24:47 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:24:47 -0000 Subject: Obsession Quiz and Shipping personality test In-Reply-To: <200101190536.f0J5aJC06194@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <948mjf+3ham@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9677 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Ebony said: > >Who knows? I'm having so much fun writing "Trouble in Paradise"... maybe > >I'll enjoy my visit on the other side so much that I'll take up > >permanent residence... > > Ah, yes, Ebony, it's not too late! Come toward the light... > > Kathy > (AKA Elanor Gamgee) C'mon, Kathy, you know me better than that! Tell you what. I'll hire Elanor Gamgee as a marriage counselor for them... how's that sound? Again, writing R/H has been quite an amusing task. H/H wouldn't have provided half the personal entertainment. For if this had been a tale about H/H, the appropriate abbreviation would have been simply P- -Paradise. BTW, this would mark the third time in two days I've lost Aberforth's Goat's challenge to not promote my ship. :-) Shameful, innit? --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 06:36:00 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:36:00 -0000 Subject: Fanon "ruining" canon (was Obsessiveness quiz)/purity In-Reply-To: <948jke+bv4t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948n8g+v8s4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9678 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > I, too, in order to be pure, have read no fan fiction. OK, Susan says that's she maintaining her purity. Amanda says that's she's abstaining from fanfic. Purity? Abstinence? Since when is reading good fanfic equated with shagging? LOL! First, Mike draws comparisons between fanfic and drug addiction. Now this. So I guess the fanfic community is the Harry Potter version of the 60s era boomers seem so nostalgic for. We're all a bunch of hippies, sharing our canonical fantasies to the like minded. Make love, not war... Sorry, just couldn't resist. --Ebony AKA AngieJ From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 19 06:48:23 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:48:23 -0000 Subject: Fanfic ©right & zines--oh my... In-Reply-To: <20010118172847.26982.qmail@nwcst336.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <948nvn+5evi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9679 Penny wrote: If you're asking whether or not something could be compiled and sold *at cost* (with no profit whatsoever), I suppose that's a possibility. But, if a fanfic writer derives any commercial benefit or profit whatsoever, they've just lost whatever defense to copyright infringement they may have. I'm still not entirely clear how firm a foundation most of us fanfic writers are on anyway -- hoping Heidi will chime in. I have made sure that the ASA disclaimer is worded very strongly & is included on *every* chapter that we post. And Alexa wrote: If someone was interested in producing HP zines, I'd be surprised if they didn't find enough of a market to cover the costs. There shouldn't be any question about who gets the profit, because there shouldn't *be* any profit - cost of zines is generally kept at a level that covers cost-of-production and mailing, to maintain the non- profit status. But it's completely *feasible* if some people want to take it on. There's new HP fanfiction coming out everyday, and there might be enough interest in formatting and selling some of the "classics" that are on the Internet. Generally, zine publishers ask for zined stories to be kept off the Internet for a 1-2 year period, to make sure there's incentive to buy the zine. I've also seen stories that are highly popular and already web-published put in zines anyway, because the demand for them in bound form would be high enough to cover costs. There's no reason PoU, for instance, couldn't be published as a zine novel, or DD and DS together as two novellas in a single issue, particularly if you include illustrations. If the interest is high enough within the fandom, you could probably do a series of classics, as well as zines with all-new material. The only stumbling block I can see is whether people are going to be willing to pay $10- $20 dollar for each zine.> > I can check and see if there's a zine-publishers list somewhere, like the vidders list at egroups, if anyone is interested. I've also got a couple of zine publishing sites bookmarked, and I can scrounge up the URL.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I was thinking, as Penny said, along the lines of a non-profit sort of arrangement; basically the most popular and recommended fics that so many have fallen in love with, and only with the authors' consent. Like Carole, I've been printing some out and saving in spiral-binders, but that's a bit costly for me. But, it seems that zines could be as expensive, if not more. Thanks for all the info, Alexa. If the quality zines sell for $10-20, what do the ones that resemble trade paperbacks go for? That's more what I was picturing, as I have no experience with zines; and I,too, would love to have them compiled in a book, portable and less cumbersome than spiral- binders. What sort of interest would these publishers look for? Is there any minimum level? Do they base this on requests? Thanks for the replies, Kelley From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 06:58:58 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 06:58:58 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (was Howdy; ponderings (rather lengthy)) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <948oji+97u9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9680 Welcome, Marvin! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long, Jr." wrote: > * Snape is very interesting. I see him as a kind of aristocrat who is loyal to principles of honor and decency but who feels conflicted about associating with and teaching the "lower orders"--mudbloods and so on. He probably sympathizes with Voldemort's dislike of muggles but understands that V's methods are evil and to be eschewed--I suspect that he went through an enormous crisis of character to reach this conclusion (something that would make a good story in a future HP book, methinks) and, though he dislikes Harry and gravitates towards aristocratic-minded folk (Slytherins) he won't betray the good guys--his own goodness was too hard-won for that. I suspect that this idea of "aristocracy", with its implied connotations of hierarchy, is much more widespread in the wizarding world than we've been led to believe. Hogwarts is under the control of Dumbledore... and we've seen indication in canon that his views are not always in sync with the community. This is similar to our own "Muggle" world, where the values and mores of colleges and universities--often run by faculty who were trained during the postmodern revolutions of the 60s and 70s--are often disconnected from the worldviews of contemporary society. One does wonder how widespread anti-Muggle and anti-Mudblood sentiment really is outside of Dumbledore's protective bubble. Also curious to know about the structure of the Ministry... does the magical community have any similarities to the socialist/welfare states? Or is it mainly capitalist? If it is capitalist, how does this world deal with poverty? Great post, Marvin. These are some of the very issues that I'm most intrigued about in canon. I'd really like to see where JKR goes with this. BTW, you have a BA in Philosophy? I never took a single course in that field while in undergrad... and yet, somehow ended up with the History of Rhetoric with a focus on the Sophists and Aristotle on my winter term schedule. Any pointers on how to plow through the more abstract readings? They're Greek to me. ;-) --Ebony AKA AngieJ From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 19 07:09:24 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:09:24 -0000 Subject: Clotted cream and other scone yummies... In-Reply-To: <947itf+s0me@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948p74+nhim@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9681 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jen Piersol" wrote: > Hi! Just wanted to let you guys know that there is a great source > of yummy stuff (including clotted cream, double devon cream, and > golden syrup) available both online and in print... you can get > them (and other great spreads) at the King Arthur Flour Company > catalog. Here's a link to the online catalog entrance/print catalog > order form: > > www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos/06187.3.086246167860042484 Jen (who drools over the catalog almost every night...) Just want to give my thanks to all who've helped with this topic; Amanda for starting it (I'm in SA too, so if anyone brings some to Amanda, would you bring me some, too?), Milz for the recipe link, and Jen for the catalog link. Kelley From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 19 07:24:36 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:24:36 -0000 Subject: Ordering the UK versions from Chapters In-Reply-To: <947jl3+b36f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <948q3k+jb53@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9682 Marvin, thanks for confirming that. That was my concern as well, and I'm no slouch in the paranoia department, myself. I did check once on the prices at AmazUk, but this was before the boxset, and I didn't remember them being some outrageous amount. I hadn't checked other UK sources, so don't even know if some might be cheaper than Chapters. Thanks again, Kelley --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long" wrote: > The Candain publisher is "Raincoast," and since I'm a paranoid little monkey I emailed the publisher to ask if their text was identical to the UK text--and they said yes. Also, I was mistaken a while back when I said the books could be gotten less expensively from the UK...I did my currency exchange math wrong. Whoops. > > marvin > (anticipating in fear the inauguralation of Shrub) > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > > To anyone considering ordering the UK versions from Amazon UK, try Chapters. I purchased the box set of hardcover books for just under $48, far less than the $75 others are reporting from Amaz. UK. Here's the URL for Chapters: http://www.chapters.ca/ I searched "Harry Potter", and plenty of items came up. > > > > Kelley From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 19 07:05:48 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:05:48 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fanfic zines References: <948nvn+5evi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <016201c081e6$5547bd80$df3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9683 Re HP fanfic zines: I could see attention being drawn to the HP fanfic zines that some people are describing, if people have to pay for them. "Quality zines" costing $10-$20 could, I imagine, be subject to criticism, if not action, by JKR, the publishers or even Warner Brothers. I think the only thing that keeps ff.net away from this is the fact that there is no charge being levied to readers. I am a former zine writer/editor and in my experience, it is possible to get into trouble even if you aren't making a cent out of it. We financed our home-made zine through a nightclub, which operated on a not-for-profit basis (i.e. proceeds ploughed back into other projects rather than our pockets) and distributed it free of charge. Considering our 'underground' nature, we were more responsible than most about content, but we did get into a few scrapes... anyway, let's not get into that. On the other hand, I've seen loads of paperback-book-style Star Trek stories in bookshops. Are these fanfic? Do they have official approval? Does the Star Trek HQ get a cut of the profits? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 19 08:29:44 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:29:44 -0000 Subject: Hello Steph! and obsession quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <948tto+k6t0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9684 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steph Widger" wrote: > Hi all! > My name is Steph, and I'm a teenager in high school. I was recommended this list by a friend of mine (hi kelley!) because on my Sports Night club I was complaining about how I needed a group to discuss Harry with. She said this was her favorite and that it was a really good list and thought I'd like it. > I can't wait to get into the action, ask Kelley, I'm a talker. :) > @~~~ > Steph Hey, Steph! Welcome! Glad you decided to join our little () group. This is great, we're growing by leaps and bounds (hello and welcome to all our new members!), and it's such fun. HPfGUs will certainly keep you busy! BTW, great quiz, DrMM! I'm 64% obsessed; not too bad, right? Kelley From catlady at wicca.net Fri Jan 19 08:37:13 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 00:37:13 -0800 Subject: Fanfic zines/Madam Sprout's name Message-ID: <3A67FCB9.778B5E69@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9685 There was at least one book of collected Darkover fanfiction, but it was collected (and forced upon the publisher) by Marion Zimmer Bradley, the author and owner of the Darkover series. I believe that all those Star Trek books in bookstores belong to whoever owns the Star Trek copyright, who hires hacks to write the books for money while ignoring fans who write it for love. Today I obsessed on 'What is Professor Sprout's given name?' and came up with more suggestions than my previous Phyllis, Fern, or Ivy: Chloris (or Clara Phyllis!) Flora Eartha La Verne Sylvia or Sylvaine Xyla (after xylem, part of a plant's vascular system) Polly-Ann or Pauline (whichever sounds more like Pollen) Ruth (if it sounds enough like Root) Betty-Annie (for Botany) -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From f95lean at dd.chalmers.se Fri Jan 19 09:16:24 2001 From: f95lean at dd.chalmers.se (Lea Niiniskorpi) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:16:24 +0100 (MET) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar In-Reply-To: <948bmf+j1h9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9686 On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Meg wrote: > I just wanted to put in my 2 cents with this student population > issue. There are 5 girls and 3 boys that we know of in Harry's year > in Gryffindor, Weren't there five boys too (Harry, Ron, Neville, Seamus Finnigan and Dean Thomas) ? -- // Lea From msmacgoo at one.net.au Fri Jan 19 10:11:15 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffes MacGoo) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:11:15 -0000 Subject: Dubleodre and Flamel (was Re: Thought of this last night... In-Reply-To: <9485t3+gdif@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9493s3+mad8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9687 Hi Mike, all I thought this and thought I was very clever but them someone pointed out that maybe Dumbledore helped Flamel refine his work, ie that Flamel had gotten the bit about prolonging life but had other work still to be done. Not a bad explination eh? shame In fact, if you use the e-group seach facility for Flamel you may find the original and much more lucid (than my summary) explaintion. storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mschub at y... wrote: > On the back of the wizard card, it says that Dumbledore is known > for "...his work on alchemy with his partner Nicholas Flamel." > (Forgive me if the specifics are off, I'm going from memory.) Now, > Flamel is 650-some-odd years old. Dumbledore, we know, is around 150. > We also know that wizards live longer than humans, but not THAT much > (I always got the impression that they lived to be about 200). What > I'm getting at is that Flamel had to perfect the SS/PS around 200 > years before Dumbledore was even BORN in order for him to still be > alive. How does that make them partners? > I had another question, too, and I remember it was a better question > than that one. Unfortunately, that's ALL I remember about it, that it > was better than the one above. As to what the actual QUESTION was, I'm > completely clueless... > -Mike From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Fri Jan 19 10:17:34 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:17:34 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Thought of this last night... Message-ID: <01c08201$0a4d7340$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 9688 >What >I'm getting at is that Flamel had to perfect the SS/PS around 200 >years before Dumbledore was even BORN in order for him to still be >alive. How does that make them partners? Flamel inveneted Philosopher's stone himself. He cooperated with Dumbledore on other things. Hermione found this information in some book about history of magic. Monika From s_ings at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 10:25:46 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:25:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsession quiz is done . . . Message-ID: <20010119102546.24233.qmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9689 > > wrote: > Gosh, I have 93%. I didn't know I was *that* bad! > > ~ Dinah ~ > I got 61%. Not enough to warrant a trip to the Flying Ford Clinic. Does this mean I have a 'healthy' obsession? Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 11:33:11 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:33:11 -0000 Subject: Thought of this last night... In-Reply-To: <9485t3+gdif@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9498ln+eue0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9690 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mschub at y... wrote: > On the back of the wizard card, it says that Dumbledore is known > for "...his work on alchemy with his partner Nicholas Flamel." > (Forgive me if the specifics are off, I'm going from memory.) Now, > Flamel is 650-some-odd years old. Dumbledore, we know, is around 150. > We also know that wizards live longer than humans, but not THAT much > (I always got the impression that they lived to be about 200). What > I'm getting at is that Flamel had to perfect the SS/PS around 200 > years before Dumbledore was even BORN in order for him to still be > alive. How does that make them partners? They were partners in other random alchemic works (eg. the discovery of the 12 uses of dragons blood). Their partnership obviously didn't begin until long after Flamel created the stone on his own. Dai From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 11:39:03 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 05:39:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! References: <948kvd+bis1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A682757.4BECA504@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9691 Susan McGee wrote: > > > Hmmm. Didn't help Gore a lot. I think the Gore/Potter campaign button > > picture is still in the files, isn't it? > > Oh, yes, it did. Gore really won the election Hmph. Not from where I sit. But we won't get into that, listparents, I'll be good. --Amanda From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 11:52:31 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:52:31 -0000 Subject: How old is Flamel Message-ID: <9499pv+rgdo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9692 I read PS again last night and came across this: Hermione finds the reference to Flamel in an "Enormous old book." The quote from the book places Nick Flamel at 665 the year before the book was written. Therefore Nick Flamel surely must have been born several years before 1326 (Lexicon) to account for the age of the book. In fact it completely throws open how old he really is, as the book could have been sitting in the library for decades or even centuries. Dai From homanm at umich.edu Fri Jan 19 11:59:21 2001 From: homanm at umich.edu (Meg ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:59:21 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <949a6p+mbeo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9693 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Lea Niiniskorpi wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jan 2001, Meg wrote: > > > I just wanted to put in my 2 cents with this student population > > issue. There are 5 girls and 3 boys that we know of in Harry's year > > in Gryffindor, > > Weren't there five boys too (Harry, Ron, Neville, Seamus Finnigan and Dean > Thomas) ? > > -- > // Lea Oops. Typo. 5 boys and 3 girls (Hermione, Parvati, and Lavender). Sorry all. Meg From knightma at sabc.co.za Fri Jan 19 12:50:32 2001 From: knightma at sabc.co.za (knightma at sabc.co.za) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 12:50:32 -0000 Subject: sigh...cream again In-Reply-To: <3A672E73.7E4082AE@texas.net> Message-ID: <949d6o+nqdc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9694 Just to clarify the point: Clotted cream is cream. It tastes like unsweetened whipping cream. All forms of cream are a combination of milk and butterfat. Half and Half is 10% butterfat, whipping cream is about 40%. Clotted cream and heavy cream are higher. Real clotted cream is close to 100% butterfat. If you can get non-homogenised milk (or are old enough to remember), clotted cream is the stuff you scoop off the top of the bottle when it has settled. Megan Knight, who when she isn't writing websites bakes the most decadent and fattening pastries imaginable, and has two jars of clotted cream in her fridge for this weekend's effort. From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 19 13:00:26 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:00:26 -0600 Subject: Link to Daily News Article on Wand Order Problem Message-ID: <3A683A6A.CAA9D0A4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9695 Hi -- Here's a link to the Daily News piece from a few days ago. It will only be active for a few more days it appears, so read it now! http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-01-16/New_York_Now/Culture/a-95967.asp?last6days=1 If the above doesn't work -- go to nydailynews.com & search the headlines for Tuesday 1/16 in the Last 6 Days Archive section. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 19 13:04:16 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:04:16 -0600 Subject: Daily News/Stouffer Lawsuit Message-ID: <3A683B50.7AA20484@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9696 Hi -- At the bottom of the Daily News HP article, there's a link to a Forum where you can give your opinions on Daily News pieces. I followed it to see if anyone had commented on this piece (You have to click on Theater & Culture once you originally press the link btw). The first comment in this forum has to do with the Stouffer Lawsuit. The person suggests that Stouffer's claim has merit -- so one of you who has followed the issue more closely might want to post your own comment (Heidi, Suzanne)! Penny From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Jan 19 13:10:37 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 19 Jan 2001 13:10:37 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <979909837.96419@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9697 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: Location Poll for Texans (since many of us can't decide whether we're Southwestern or Southeastern US for the main location poll and it's a big enough state to have regions within the state) o I live in the greater Houston area o I live in Austin, San Antonio or central Texas o I live in southern Texas (Corpus Christi, Valley) o I live in East Texas o I live in the greater Dallas/Ft Worth area o I live in north Texas, non-DFW (Waco, Denton, etc.) o I live in the Panhandle o I live in West Texas (El Paso, Midland/Odessa, San Angelo, etc.) To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 19 13:11:28 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 07:11:28 -0600 Subject: Location Poll for Texans Message-ID: <3A683D00.71421B86@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9698 Hi -- I decided we needed a location poll for Texans for purposes of regional get-togethers. People in El Paso aren't exactly a hop, skip & a jump away from those of us in Houston after all. If you're a Texan, please vote. Penny From knightma at sabc.co.za Fri Jan 19 13:55:24 2001 From: knightma at sabc.co.za (knightma at sabc.co.za) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:55:24 -0000 Subject: International Editions FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <949h0c+sdqu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9699 The afrikaans editions (south african) can be ordered from www.exclusivebooks.co.za. They have all sorts of languages, Afrikaans are the ones published by Human & Rousseau. If you have any specific factual questions I can probably get my hands on them and check for you. Megan From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:04:28 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:04:28 -0000 Subject: Oh so OT (was Clotted cream and other scone yummies...) In-Reply-To: <947o8q+e2qc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949hhc+vacr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9700 That's the 3rd time people have mentioned golden syrup. What kind of syrup is it? IMHO, you haven't lived unless you've had maple syrup, on scones and anything else you care to pour it on. Not being paid by the Maple Syrup Producers Association, just a New Englander, Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From morine10 at aol.com Fri Jan 19 14:05:43 2001 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:05:43 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipping Message-ID: <44.a980b0b.2799a3bb@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9701 Ebony wrote: >Again, writing R/H has been quite an amusing task. H/H >wouldn't have provided half the personal entertainment. >For if this had been a tale about H/H, the appropriate >abbreviation would have been simply P--Paradise. H/H --Paradise? Oh that's funny - it was meant as a joke, right? Hmmm. You've raised an interesting question (in my mind anyway) what about H/H and the problems they would have? Because they would you know! (Oh, I'm having all sorts of E-vil thoughts LOL!) Yes, put Elanor in as the counselor. Work your magic Elanor. I know you can do it!! -Mo An R/H-er who isn't smug, never beat up an H/H-er, and would never begrudge anyone their opinion. :) ************************************************* "Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like her." -Han Solo, Star Wars From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:07:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:07:13 -0000 Subject: Leather aversion...(OTish) In-Reply-To: <001e01c0818a$b8e291a0$e13670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <949hmh+jjjb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9702 Neil 'Flying-Ford-Anglia' wrote: >No wonder I've never cured anyone! Hmmmmm. Perhaps I meant 'extinction' >therapy...? Don't give up your career, Dr. F-F-A. Aversion therapy involves exposing someone to whatever they're attracted to (cigarettes, people of the same sex, whatever--I'm sorry, I know it's disgusting, but it IS used to "cure" homosexuality) while providing some kind of extremely negative stimulus--pain, e.g. The idea is that they'll come to associate the desired object with unpleasant sensation and stop desiring it. So those leather pants will come in handy. Just wire them for electric shock and you're back in business. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:09:59 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:09:59 -0000 Subject: Ginny and Colin and student numbers In-Reply-To: <947qe0+n4e4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949hrn+g046@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9703 Steve wrote: >BTW, I thought of something a little while ago. JKR tells us these >stories from Harry's point of view, and in that voice she frequently >uses exaggeration as if it's fact. For example, when Hagrid sobers up >enough to realize that Harry came down to his hut at night to see him >when Black was supposedly out to kill him, he shouts at them. The >books says that they jumped a foot into the air. Now we all know and >assume that they didn't REALLY jump a foot off the ground. In fact, >no one really even leaves the ground at all when they do that jump in >surprise thing. But JKR writes it that way be cause Harry feels it >like that. There are quite a few other examples of this in the books. Very good point. I think the comments about Hagrid's size are like this. At various times he's referred to as being "twice as tall" or "five times as wide" as most men, but this seems sure to be hyperbole--I can't find any of the citations right this second, but they vary wildly. So we can all stop wondering how he and Sirius could possibly use the same motorbike. The Colin & Ginny comment is odd because it shows an assumption that Ron wouldn't have if houses are the size most of us think. In a school with 10-20 kids per year per house, no one would ever say of two Gryffindor first-years, "you'd better hope they don't meet." IMO it's just a mini-Flint on JKR's part. Ron should've said something like, "You'd better watch out--once Colin and Ginny meet they'll start a Harry Potter fan club." Amy Z --------------------------------------------- Crabbe and Goyle chuckled trollishly. -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban --------------------------------------------- From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 19 14:12:55 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 19 Jan 2001 06:12:55 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! Message-ID: <20010119141255.20052.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9704 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:13:44 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:13:44 -0000 Subject: Warning for Cindy Message-ID: <949i2o+jtnh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9705 A warm welcome to the list, but I advise you not to read posts until you've finished all 4 books. Spoilers show up in many, many posts. I can't think of anything more tragic than having GoF or, worse (because it's my favorite), PoA, ruined by knowing the end. For example, do NOT read my next post. Okay, I admit it, I can think of lots of things that are more tragic. Hyperbole again. Amy Z -24 hours til President Shrub, speaking of tragedies- -OK, OK, sorry to the Republicans among us, I'll stop that now- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:15:27 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:15:27 -0000 Subject: Aspersions on a certain attractive male character (was shippers/URL/mystery?) In-Reply-To: <00c301c08216$6c59f4e0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <949i5v+tggg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9706 Mike wrote: "that gaunt guy with the dirty hair ..." That Gaunt Guy With The Dirty Hair??!! Them's fighting words, AG. Better take that back or you're going to have a lot of steamed-up women (and not a few steamed-up men) defending their man Sirius. Amy Z who personally thinks Lupin is WAY more attractive From amyfrank400 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:26:08 2001 From: amyfrank400 at hotmail.com (Amy Johnston) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 09:26:08 -0500 Subject: Newbie and Hogwart's Population Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9707 Hello all - I'm a Newbie, 30 years old, live in Indiana but born and raised in Georgia. Meg wrote: I just wanted to put in my 2 cents with this student population issue. There are 5 girls and 3 boys that we know of in Harry's year in Gryffindor, but how can we assume that the class sizes are uniform? That would mean that every year, the British wizarding population has an absolutely static birthrate, with no more than X number of kids being born so that there are the same number of eleven year olds at Hogwarts as twelve year olds as thirteen year olds etc. Plus, if you take into account muggle wizarding births (like Hermione) the wizarding population birth rate gets even smaller. This definately doesn't make any sense, what with all we know about the many wizarding families and there being enough of them so that there are lots of completely pureblood kids running around. Plus, if we assume that every class in Hogwarts is the same size, we'd also be saying that every year there are 10 wizarding kids born who have brave personalities, 10 who are studious, 10 who are devious, and 10 who are loyal. What are the odds of that actually happening? What happens if there are 11 loyal kids born in a particular year? Or 27 studious ones? Are 10 allowed to come to Hogwarts and the left-overs have to be home-schooled? Class sizes at muggle schools aren't uniform, and personality traits definately aren't either, so I don't know why we should assume that the opposite is true in the wizarding world. Maybe Harry's year is so small because in 1980 only 8 wizarding kids were born with Gryffindor personalities, but there could be any number in the other houses. ----- I agree with Meg. In one of the online chats with JKR on Scholastic.com (the transcripts are printed there), JKR says,"In Hogwarts there's a magical quill which detects the birth of a magical child, and writes his or her name down in a large parchment book. Every year Professor MacGonagall checks the book, and sends owls to the people who are turning 11." This would seem to indicate that there is not a set number of students for each class or each house. It just depends how many magical kids are born each year and then turn 11 and get their owl. Also, if there are close to 1,000 students (which JKR said in the same chat) it is quite possible Harry only mentions the kids he knows by name -- I doubt he would know all 1,000 by name, eh? This is my theory. Rip it to shreds as you will:) Amy Johnston _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 19 14:26:12 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:26:12 -0000 Subject: Pomfrey (filk) In-Reply-To: <947qik+ac64@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949iq4+qk2t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9708 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Pomfrey > > (to the tune of Born Free) > ROTFLMAO! Good'un! marvin From knightma at sabc.co.za Fri Jan 19 14:34:02 2001 From: knightma at sabc.co.za (knightma at sabc.co.za) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:34:02 -0000 Subject: Leather aversion...(even more OT) In-Reply-To: <949hmh+jjjb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949j8q+eokq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9709 > of the same sex, whatever--I'm sorry, I know it's disgusting, but it > IS used to "cure" homosexuality) while providing some kind of > extremely negative stimulus--pain, e.g. The idea is that they'll come It is NOT used to 'cure' homosexuality. Homosexuality has not been considered to need 'curing' since 1974, when it was removed from the DSM IV. It was tried, but has not been used outside of fanatical or tortuous contexts in at least 25 years. M From cad2 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:55:00 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (Cindy Dombrowski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:55:00 -0000 Subject: Intro In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <949kg4+aa5v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9710 I'm going to say "goodbye" until I finish the series ... I finished #2 last night ... big suprise ending!!!!!!!! Never woudl have guessed. Can't wait to start #3 tonight... Oh yes, I'm obsessed! I finished 2 books in 1 week and I can't stop reading!!!!!!!!!! I had to put away the other book I'm reading (She's Come Undone by Wally Lamb) b/c I couldn't stand not reading HP! So I'll be away until I finish #4.... Thanks for the warnings... I didn't get my welcome letter from the group until after I posted my first introduction. CIndy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "yael-pou" wrote: > Hi and welcome! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cindy Dombrowski > > Hope you don't go into too much detail about the novels - I don't > want any hints as to what is to come!!! > > Cindy > > > Ooh, you're in trouble. Knowing what is in the third book, reading even the slightest debate on what the characters should be wearing is going to ruin the whole book for you, unless you're willing to give up the surprise ending. And don't take the Harry Potter obsession quiz yet either. It, too, contains questions that will damage your enjoyment of the first read. > > Probably the best thing for you is to read the books ardently and get into the debates after you've finished them. > > Not that we have any objection to having you here. It is quite possible to know you're obsessed by the end of the first chapter of Philosopher's Stone. You are welcome to stay, if you'd like, but it would just ruin the books for you. > > > yael *who is seriously considering buying the books in a second language just so she could pass the obsession test. sniff.* > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cad2 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 14:57:02 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (Cindy Dombrowski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:57:02 -0000 Subject: Intro In-Reply-To: <948429+rd3b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949kju+p5c9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9711 > Hi, > Welcome to the Group! (We sure are gaining lots of new members aren't > we...) > > There, now that I've welcomed you I feel it is time you should leave. > > Go! Get outta here! Scat! > > Actually I'm not trying to be rude No offense taken... Actually, thanks for the warning !!! I just didn't realize how DEEPLY you discuss the books :) I'll be back after I finish #4 :) Cindy From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 15:19:38 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:19:38 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar In-Reply-To: <948bmf+j1h9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949lua+7prs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9712 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Meg " wrote: Meg:"...if you take into account muggle wizarding births (like Hermione) the wizarding population birth rate gets even smaller. This definately doesn't make any sense, what with all we know about the many wizarding families and there being enough of them so that there are lots of completely pureblood kids running around. Plus, if we assume that every class in Hogwarts is the same size, we'd also be saying that every year there are 10 wizarding kids born who have brave personalities, 10 who are studious, 10 who are devious, and 10 who are loyal. What are the odds of that actually happening? What happens if there are 11 loyal kids born in a particular year? Or 27 studious ones? Are 10 allowed to come to Hogwarts and the left-overs have to be home-schooled? Class sizes at muggle schools aren't uniform, and personality traits definately aren't either, so I don't know why we should assume that the opposite is true in the wizarding world. Maybe Harry's year is so small because in 1980 only 8 wizarding kids were born with Gryffindor personalities, but there could be any number in the other houses." Exactly, and the Sorting Hat says straight out that it puts students where they 'ought to be,' and by inference, without regard to quota, proportions among houses, or anything else. Your point about birthrate is right on target, too. Consider that if the magical birthrate is as low as it would have to be to get such low numbers of students, wizard society would die out. What we do have is a vibrant wizard society with lots of businesses like Bertie Botts, Quality Quidditch Supplies, various professional Quidditch teams, etc., and a seemingly endless bureaucracy at the MoM. You wouldn't have any of that if the population was that low. My two daughters live in a town with 55,000 people in it. Their elementary school has 366 students in six years, and there are at least eight other elementary schools in town. And Hogwarts has 300 students for the entire magical population of the UK? I can't make it work in my head. I'll check out JKR's picture for sure. She was standing next to the salt piles under the Triborough Bridge? Doesn't sound very picturesque to me, but I see too much of them. From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Fri Jan 19 15:21:29 2001 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:21:29 EST Subject: Nicolas Flamel Message-ID: <5c.6123f15.2799b579@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9713 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, eggplant88 at h... wrote: > Rowling didn't just make up the name Nicolas Flamel he was a real > historic figure, he was an alchemist who spent his life looking, > unsuccessful, for the Philosopher's Stone (not the sorcerer's > stone!), he even had a wife named Perenelle. The exact date of his > birth or death is not known but he published his book in 1414, so he > would be about 656 if he were still around 1n 1991 for the first > Harry Potter adventure. By the way Michael Myers, the villain of the > Halloween movies, was also the name of a medieval > Alchemist. If you want to check out something interesting, check this about Nicholas Flamel. I more or les stumbled across this AUBERGE NICOLAS FLAMEL restaurant- Paris'Oldest house(1407) by accident, surfing restaurants in Paris for a suitable spot for Harry's fifteenth birthday celebration in my fanfiction. If the link doesn't work, here's the URL http://nicolasflamel.forez.com/default-uk.htm ~Circe From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 19 15:25:00 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:25:00 -0000 Subject: Oh so OT (was Clotted cream and other scone yummies...) In-Reply-To: <949hhc+vacr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949m8c+i2p7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9714 Amy wrote: > That's the 3rd time people have mentioned golden syrup. What kind of > syrup is it? > > IMHO, you haven't lived unless you've had maple syrup, on scones and > anything else you care to pour it on. > > Not being paid by the Maple Syrup Producers Association, just a New > Englander, > > Amy Z Golden Syrup is a sugar syrup. It's not quite Dark Karo Syrup and not quite Molasses in flavor, imo. Milz From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 15:27:15 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:27:15 -0000 Subject: Self-induced spoilers Message-ID: <949mcj+5akv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9715 Cindy's intro post and the various warnings to her reminded me that I actually read the books in the wrong order. I was lent the tapes by a friend who accidentally gave me CS first. Naturally, I had no idea what the order was, so I went along, briefly wondering that the series picked up after one year of school, idly wondering at the author's decision to hint at me about a recent confrontation with Lord V instead of showing it to me, but not tumbling to the fact that I was really, totally out of whack until I was halfway through. I should've stopped much earlier and checked with someone, but I was already addicted and I would've had to wait several days before getting a hold of PS/SS. Fortunately, it really didn't ruin PS/SS for me--all I knew for sure was that Harry wasn't going to die at the end, not a big surprise--but it could have been a bad scene. Gosh, imagine reading GoF before PoA--PoA would be ruined by the time you'd gotten to chapter 2. Anyone else read 'em out of order? Amy Z ...who worries deeply about those poor children who actually pay attention to the numbers on the spines of the newer Narnia editions and read The Magician's Nephew before they read The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe --------------------------------------------- Crabbe and Goyle chuckled trollishly. -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban --------------------------------------------- From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 19 15:33:01 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:33:01 -0000 Subject: To fanfic or not to fanfic In-Reply-To: <3A67C6EB.2EA4643E@texas.net> Message-ID: <949mnd+e2tn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9716 Amanda Lewanski wrote: It has to do with purity of character perception. If I read fanfic I'd inevitably get fuzzy on character development and motivations, because the "feel" I got from a fanfic version of a character would blend over into the "feel" I get from the book version of the character. I'm into experiencing JKR's vision and trying to figure out *her* characters, and until I have the whole vision I don't want to muddy the waters. I'm not saying there isn't great fanfic out there. Exactly the reason why I don't read fanfic either. I want to know the characters J. K. Rowling has created, not someone else's interpretation of those characters. :-) Milz From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 15:32:28 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:32:28 -0000 Subject: Sympathetic Slytherins, Snape (was Howdy; ponderings) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <949mmc+vmro@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9717 Marvin wrote: >* I wish JKR would offer us some sympathetic characters from >Slytherin >House. The one-note nastines of Malfoy and company is getting old >and >unconvincing. I've known ambitious rule-benders who were not >wantonly >cruel, and it would only make sense for somebody in Slytherin to be >sufficiently concerned about his/her reputation to try to stop Malfoy >etal. from giving the rest a bad name. "Hi, Marvin! My name is Amy and I'm a Harry Potter addict." I agree that Slytherin needs a little more variety. I'm particularly uncomfortable with the Crabbe-Goyle-Malfoy hereditary nastiness. I have high hopes for Draco. We have a lot of thoughts on this list as to why he's become the nasty little bigoted bully that he is (hint: it's Lucius's fault for not taking Dr. Spock to heart), and I for one think that JKR doesn't like to go too far with the evil- or good-by-birth idea (as you'll know if you've read my Who is Harry Potter? post). Not that I think Draco will ever turn into a sweet, kindly guy. But I think as the characters are forced to choose as the battle lines are drawn, we're going to see people we trusted go over to V and people who've been trained all their lives to be Death Eaters bravely joining our heroes. It should be excruciating and interesting. DM is a good candidate for one who, like Snape, painfully chooses the side of good while remaining a thoroughly unpleasant person. As for other children-of-the-damned,* we know there's a Nott in Harry's year but we don't know what house he/she got put in. He/she could defy blood and be a goodie in 5-6-7. I'd venture to guess that one of the reasons Snape is so fascinating to so many of us is that he is the most interesting mix of good and bad tendencies. Sirius is similarly compelling, IMO (a comparison that would make them both turn green). I like your summary of Snape's character very much. And finally, I agree that we need a 12-step program. Wednesday and Friday nights, non-smoking, please. Amy Z *Good example, actually, as "Children of the Damned" asserts that the descendants of the evil children in Village of the Damned are in fact good. At least I think that's what happens. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 15:35:21 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:35:21 -0000 Subject: leather aversion, fanfic, etc./Bean In-Reply-To: <948i4c+udgr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949mrp+ubd1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9718 Susan wrote: > > Harry well dressed is in LLBean gear I have to weigh in on the extremely important topic of Harry's attire to say that he does NOT lean toward LLBean. He is way too non-looks-conscious for that. Otherwise he'd have traded in his round black specs for tortoiseshell a long time ago and done something about that hair. I see him in much more downscale clothes, even once he's liberated from the Dudley hand-me-downs. Sweaters and jeans, yes, but not quite so going-out-boating-with-the-boys as LLBean. Besides, LLBean (to be precise, Linda, I think it is, Bean, of the LLBean empire) gives huge sums to the Christian Coalition or used to, which would make this a rather ironic choice don't you think? Sorry to break it to you, all you LLBean-addicted liberals out there, but it's true. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 15:38:20 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:38:20 -0000 Subject: lake musings, grindylow In-Reply-To: <948lgs+s78q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949n1c+f7of@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9719 I think Star's solution, that the lake is indeed too large to walk around but there's a piece of it one can circle thanks to a bridge, is a good one. It's still a Flint on JKR's part but I think we can bail her out. So SVA, when you redraw the map , give the lake a little lakelet or inlet or whatever you'd call it. Steve wrote: >Who exactly did Lupin take delivery of a grindylow FROM? Is there a >service from which you can order Dark Creatures? Naturally. It's the same place where Muggles get cats in formaldehyde. I think we need an animal rights organization at Hogwarts--I bet Hermione would help us start one. Actually, I think Lupin was being modest. He dove into the lake and caught the grindylow himself. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 19 15:56:25 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:56:25 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar In-Reply-To: <949lua+7prs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949o39+qnb8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9720 Jim Ferer wrote: My two daughters live in a town with 55,000 people in it. Their elementary school has 366 students in six years, and there are at least eight other elementary schools in town. And Hogwarts has 300 students for the entire magical population of the UK? I can't make it work in my head. Exactly. We really don't know the population of the wizarding community in the UK. In SS/PS ch 1, Vernon Dudley saw quite a number of people dressed in wizarding attire that day. So, many that he thought there was some sort of convention. Only Dumbledore and McGonagall knew Harry was to live with the Dursleys so it's unlikely that those wizards converged in Little Whinging to welcome Harry home, so to speak. So let's say that the entire wizarding population of Little Whinging dressed in their wizard attire that day. Based upon Vernon's observation, there's a good number of wizards and witches in Little Whinging! Ans we can assume that there's a good number of magical children there too...unless Little Whinging is a wizarding retirement community. :-)Milz From pbnesbit at msn.com Fri Jan 19 15:57:52 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:57:52 -0000 Subject: Self-induced spoilers In-Reply-To: <949mcj+5akv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949o60+sh3p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9721 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Cindy's intro post and the various warnings to her reminded me that I > actually read the books in the wrong order. I was lent the tapes by a > friend who accidentally gave me CS first. Naturally, I had no idea > what the order was, so I went along, briefly wondering that the series > picked up after one year of school, idly wondering at the author's > decision to hint at me about a recent confrontation with Lord V > instead of showing it to me, but not tumbling to the fact that I was > really, totally out of whack until I was halfway through. I should've > stopped much earlier and checked with someone, but I was already > addicted and I would've had to wait several days before getting a hold > of PS/SS. > > Fortunately, it really didn't ruin PS/SS for me--all I knew for sure > was that Harry wasn't going to die at the end, not a big surprise-- but > it could have been a bad scene. Gosh, imagine reading GoF before > PoA--PoA would be ruined by the time you'd gotten to chapter 2. > > Anyone else read 'em out of order? > > Amy Z > > ...who worries deeply about those poor children who actually pay > attention to the numbers on the spines of the newer Narnia editions > and read The Magician's Nephew before they read The Lion, the Witch > and the Wardrobe > > --------------------------------------------- > Crabbe and Goyle chuckled trollishly. > -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban > --------------------------------------------- Yeah, Amy, I did. The first time. I went to the library (oh innocent me) to see what "all this *Harry Potter* furor was about & had to put the books on reserve. CoS came to me first, then SS & then PoA. It didn't spoil it too much for me. Once I bought the books, I re-read them in order. Parker (who's on her 20th(?!) rereading of the series) From jciesla at madbbs.com Fri Jan 19 15:53:26 2001 From: jciesla at madbbs.com (Julia L. Ciesla) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 10:53:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] lake musings In-Reply-To: <948lgs+s78q@eGroups.com> References: <3A67CA4E.D9B91BE1@texas.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010119105326.007c0920@mail.madbbs.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9722 Somone mentioned that lake extended to Hogsmeade.. well, another thing to think about.. Harry travels to Hogsmeades through the secret passageway.. so it really can't be too far. Maybe it's a mile.. but that would still make the lake too large to walk around. I tend to suscribe to the idea that they walked along the lake near the castle. Of course the lake could be bewitched and only seems small when you look at it.. and who knows what else! Julia From particle at urbanet.ch Fri Jan 19 16:14:24 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:14:24 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Self-induced spoilers References: <949mcj+5akv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6867E0.BD6B2181@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9723 > Amy Z > > ...who worries deeply about those poor children who actually pay > attention to the numbers on the spines of the newer Narnia editions > and read The Magician's Nephew before they read The Lion, the Witch > and the Wardrobe. Oh, I'm one of those kids. It never bothered me, although it might have been interesting to read about Diggory (hey, look!) and Polly from the viewpoint of someone reading The Magician's Newphew as a prequel instead of the first book of seven, as I did. Speaking of the Chronicles of Narnia, there's a possibility they'll be my Extended Essay topic. For those of you who haven't heard of the two-year International Baccalaureate or don't know much about it, the Extended Essay coupled with the Theory of Knowledge essay can land you with as many as three bonus points, which can make the difference between a good and an excellent score on the diploma. So it's a big thing ^_~. Some of my friends suggested that I try something on Harry Potter, but I decided I wanted variety. Just a random tidbit. ~Firebolt From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 16:20:17 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:20:17 -0000 Subject: Link to Daily News Article on Wand Order Problem In-Reply-To: <3A683A6A.CAA9D0A4@swbell.net> Message-ID: <949pg1+91ue@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9724 Penny, you're my listmom and I love you, but I disagree with you on the correction. First, it isn't just a pronoun swap. There are the usual physical descriptions plus, more significantly, the omission of the line "She wants to see you," an omission I disagree with but it does show some editorial thought. (As for the recent question of whether it *should* be James, more than Lily, who "he'd thought of more than any other tonight": that is unchanged. The text now reads "the woman appearing was the one he'd thought of more than any other tonight," not "the person appearing." So James can still be the person most on his mind, if we insist on knowing.) More than this, though, I am trying to look at the situation from JKR's point of view. She plotted these books 10 years ago and on book 4 appears to have made a major gaffe. We, in our endless and joyful creativity, can invent all sorts of great reasons why James would emerge from the wand first, but JKR has to stay within the rules of a universe that she knows a lot better than we do. Clearly, in her view of the full series, Lily died after James and none of our suggestions about what *really* happened the night they died fit with her overall plot. Until we've read them all, we won't be able to judge whether this correction was really necessary, but the author thinks it was and that's good enough for me (even if she doesn't even know how many students go to Hogwarts ). I think it's a bit unfair when people say "she should've worked her way out of it." My 2 knuts, Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 16:31:08 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:31:08 -0000 Subject: Leather aversion...(even more OT) In-Reply-To: <949j8q+eokq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949q4c+5gvq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9725 I wrote: > > > of the same sex, whatever--I'm sorry, I know it's disgusting, but > it > > IS used to "cure" homosexuality) while providing some kind of > > extremely negative stimulus--pain, e.g. The idea is that they'll knightma responded: > It is NOT used to 'cure' homosexuality. Homosexuality has not been > considered to need 'curing' since 1974, when it was removed from the > DSM IV. > > It was tried, but has not been used outside of fanatical or tortuous > contexts in at least 25 years. > I am sorry, I was assuming my views on homosexuality were sufficiently clear. I am an activist for gay rights and would not want anyone to think for a moment that I was saying the opposite of what I intended. DSMIV notwithstanding, many so-called therapists still claim to be able to rid people of their homo- or bisexuality via something like aversion therapy. I doubt very much that they are successful and I am appalled that they would even try, but the fact is that this practice is still going strong. Sorry, all, our jocular talk about leather pants got real serious all of a sudden. Amy Z From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 19 16:30:04 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:30:04 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <948oji+97u9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949q2c+ingm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9726 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > Welcome, Marvin! > > I suspect that this idea of "aristocracy", with its implied > connotations of hierarchy, is much more widespread in the wizarding > world than we've been led to believe. Hogwarts is under the control > of Dumbledore... and we've seen indication in canon that his views > are not always in sync with the community. This is similar to our > own "Muggle" world, where the values and mores of colleges and > universities--often run by faculty who were trained during the > postmodern revolutions of the 60s and 70s--are often disconnected > from the worldviews of contemporary society. If JKR is patterning the wizarding world on Britain, then there's probably a Lords/Commons split in magical society, perhaps one more pronounced than what exists today since one doesn't get the feeling that the wizarding world has heavily influenced by Marx and Engles, say. I wonder if Britain has any magic schools other than Hogwarts...surely one school per country isn't enough to educate all the wizards and witches who populate the magical world! I seem to recall seeing it implied that Hogwarts takes all kids with magical ability, but that strikes me as improbable. My guess is that they offer places to children based on parentage (Hogwarts being the most prestigious of institutions) and talent; and kids who don't meet the criteria go to lesser schools or maybe even the wizarding equivalent of trade-school. That, or Hogwarts must have a LOT of dropouts.... > One does wonder how widespread anti-Muggle and anti-Mudblood > sentiment really is outside of Dumbledore's protective bubble. Also > curious to know about the structure of the Ministry... does the > magical community have any similarities to the socialist/welfare > states? Or is it mainly capitalist? If it is capitalist, how does > this world deal with poverty? I have no idea...I wonder if there are wizards who "slum" by getting jobs in the Muggle world if they can't find a position in the wizarding occupations. I get the impression that their world tends towards a kind of relaxed oligarchy. > Great post, Marvin. These are some of the very issues that I'm most > intrigued about in canon. I'd really like to see where JKR goes with > this. Thank you! And, me too. > BTW, you have a BA in Philosophy? I never took a single course in > that field while in undergrad... and yet, somehow ended up with the > History of Rhetoric with a focus on the Sophists and Aristotle on my > winter term schedule. Any pointers on how to plow through the more > abstract readings? They're Greek to me. ;-) I'll try, but -- Disclaimer! It's been 10 years since I studied any Greek philosophy, it wasn't my focus, and mostly we concentrated on ethics and metaphysics. -- take what I say with a grain of salt. In a practical sense, the history of rhetoric is often said to begin with the sophists and Big A, so it makes sense that you would study this period. Despite the negative connotations of the word "sophistry" (and despite the fact that Plato writes Socrates as hammering on these guys all the time), sophists are not necessarily the wily or mendacious bastards they are stereotyped as being (but yeah, sometimes they are). In general, sophists were a class of people created as a byproduct of both Athenian democracy and Athenian empire, which needed people skilled in oratory and in the various bureaucratic tasks a burgeoning state requires. Sometimes sophists were teachers, but often they were what you might call government wonks, people who made a point of educating themselves in the skills that would be useful to the state. So sophists might be said to be students and teachers of the "art of how to get a job in this new form of government where people who used to be aristocrats can suddenly be held accountable to voters." One of the more famous sophists is Alcibiades, a charismatic young aristocrat who helped undermine Athenian democracy and provoke the Peloponesian war. His "might makes right" philsophy is parodied and rebuked by Socrates, whose constant asking of the question "why" is shown as an irritation to people whose mode of thinking is seek answers to the question "how (to get x done)." To wrap all that up, I would suggest that you try to think of sophists as students of practical politics in the context of their time...they're a little like the policy consultants who buzz like flies around Washington DC always hoping for some kind of administration job in which to test their theories of government. There was a real need for them, even though their motives and methods might often be questioned. Aristotle marks the departure of sophistry and rhetoric from being a method of practical politics to being a method of empirical inquiry. Aristotle formulated the basic rules of syllogistic logic so that people would have a method to evaluate the truth of their own (and other people's) reasoning. Aristotle was a pragmatic sort who was interested both in truth and in the art of getting results...he studied society in fairly scientific manner (Nicomachean Ethics) and found that the art of argument could be improved for both political and truth-seeking purposes. He probably saw these things as related, since knowing the truth could, one presumes, only help a person succeed -- though speaking it might not always be a bonus! Ok, that's about the limit of my understanding. One other thing; if you're having to read Greek philosophy and have trouble understanding, then make a point of figuring out what specific terms mean. Especially in translation, a lot of words that might seem like everyday English will have technical connotations which, if not understood, can render a passage unintelligble. A good glossary or dictionary of philsophical terms can be pretty handy. Marvin (ps, what's your major/discipline, that you get to study history of rhetoric?) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 16:42:10 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:42:10 -0000 Subject: OT-Narnia (was Self-induced spoilers) In-Reply-To: <3A6867E0.BD6B2181@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <949qp2+9k22@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9727 > > Amy Z > > > > ...who worries deeply about those poor children who actually pay > > attention to the numbers on the spines of the newer Narnia editions > > and read The Magician's Nephew before they read The Lion, the Witch > > and the Wardrobe. Firebolt wrote: > Oh, I'm one of those kids. It never bothered me, although it might have > been interesting to read about Diggory (hey, look!) and Polly from the > viewpoint of someone reading The Magician's Newphew as a prequel instead > of the first book of seven, as I did. Yes, it was. Lewis wrote LLW first and the conclusion of MN is ever so much more interesting if you have already met Digory as Prof. Kirke--there's this big AHA when the books join up. Likewise, coming to HHB as book 5, after reading not just one but 3 books about the Pevensies-Eustace-Jill, had a wonderful homecoming feeling. There you are reading about this kid Shasta and suddenly you realize you're way back in the time of Queen Lucy et alia. But they're good in any order, I'm sure. Amy Z From amyfrank400 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 16:34:27 2001 From: amyfrank400 at hotmail.com (Amy Johnston) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:34:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Self-induced spoilers Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9728 >From: "Amy " >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] Self-induced spoilers >Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:27:15 -0000 > >Cindy's intro post and the various warnings to her reminded me that I >actually read the books in the wrong order. I was lent the tapes by a >friend who accidentally gave me CS first. Naturally, I had no idea >what the order was, so I went along, briefly wondering that the series >picked up after one year of school, idly wondering at the author's >decision to hint at me about a recent confrontation with Lord V >instead of showing it to me, but not tumbling to the fact that I was >really, totally out of whack until I was halfway through. I should've >stopped much earlier and checked with someone, but I was already >addicted and I would've had to wait several days before getting a hold >of PS/SS. > >Fortunately, it really didn't ruin PS/SS for me--all I knew for sure >was that Harry wasn't going to die at the end, not a big surprise--but >it could have been a bad scene. Gosh, imagine reading GoF before >PoA--PoA would be ruined by the time you'd gotten to chapter 2. > >Anyone else read 'em out of order? > >Amy Z > >...who worries deeply about those poor children who actually pay >attention to the numbers on the spines of the newer Narnia editions >and read The Magician's Nephew before they read The Lion, the Witch >and the Wardrobe > >--------------------------------------------- >Crabbe and Goyle chuckled trollishly. > -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban >--------------------------------------------- > I read the books in the right order, but I wanted to comment on your CSLewis quandry. I too was upset by the renumbering, though the preface states that it was CSLewis' wish to have them presented with "The Magician's Nephew" first. Of course he's been dead awhile and its kind of hard to check that. Anyway, I bought the repackaged set to read to my kids. I started reading TMN to her first and I don't think she's quite into it, like I was growing up reading TLTWATW first (thus being hooked and finishing the whole set in a week when I was 10!). Just a little aside here, carry on with HP talk:) Amy J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From vderark at bccs.org Fri Jan 19 16:46:28 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:46:28 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population and Wizarding culture In-Reply-To: <949lua+7prs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949r14+v2jf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9729 > numbers of students, wizard society would die out. What we do have is > a vibrant wizard society with lots of businesses like Bertie Botts, > Quality Quidditch Supplies, various professional Quidditch teams, > etc., and a seemingly endless bureaucracy at the MoM. You wouldn't > have any of that if the population was that low. Even a thousand kids is too small if you think of the whole of the wizarding world in Britain. I would argue that demographic information and guesses don't really suggest much about the number of students at Hogwarts. Not all kids from the wizarding world GO to Hogwarts, not NEARLY all. By far the most move into trades (e.g. Stan Shunpike, the manager of Flourish and Blotts). It's not that they end up uneducated. It's just that they don't need the same kinds of scientific and technical education that we in the Muggle World consider necessary because their world and life view is different. They don't need the technology to maintain the infrastructure, so they don't learn it. Our own kids' educations wouldn't prepare them to live in the wizarding world either. A typical high school student would know a whole lot of stuff that in the wizarding world would do nothing but make them disbelieve what they were seeing. We scrub the enchantment out of kids and replace it with cold hard science. The wizarding world scrubs the science out of kids and replaces it with magic. Okay, that's a bit harsh in some ways, but the point is a good one. We Muggles see reality TOTALLY differently, down to the underpinnings of everything that we believe, from the way the Wizarding World sees it. A famous quote says that "the speed of light will never be broken by someone who has already decided that it's impossible." Wizarding kids have a different set of things that they know are possible from the set of things we teach our Muggle kids. And what we teach our kids then requires a whole lot of additional education to give them the details. Add to that our assumption that we impart this education to ALL kids, regardless, which they clearly don't do in the Wizarding World, where you have to have a certain level of magical ability to get into the school (e.g. Neville). So about Hogwarts: in the Wizarding culture, the kids with the most inherent magic go to Hogwarts (they're the ones who the magic quill chooses), while the rest, with lesser magic abilities, are educated in other ways and apprentice into trades. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From EvenCirce713 at aol.com Fri Jan 19 16:48:51 2001 From: EvenCirce713 at aol.com (EvenCirce713 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:48:51 -0000 Subject: Governor Hodges mentions HP In-Reply-To: <945drb+mhqm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <949r5j+o2sa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9730 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > Tonight is the state-of-the-state address by Governor Jim Hodges of > South Carolina, where I live. If you recall, SC was the site of one of the "Harry is evil and must not be read in our schools" protests shortly after PoA was released, resulting in the response of "It's up to the individual school district to decide what to do with Harry,but we are not going to remove it from the school libraries" from the state board of education. Where am I going with this, you wonder? > Well, tonight Governor Hodges uttered this phrase regarding a reading program in his speech: "...is bringing the magic of Harry Potter to our children..." Harry was the ONLY book that he mentioned in regards to this reading program. I was thrilled beyond belief that the Governor of the state which had such an unfounded kefuffle over Harry in the classrooms mentioned it in an enlightened and positive way. Perhaps he, too, is a fan of the cannon. > > Trina, who is glad to know that it was e-groups that had the problems and it was not Penny who posted multiple messages about clotted cream! Amazing how far we've come in a year, isn't it? I'm from SC to, and if I recall correctly, in one of their trips to one of the public schools to read aloud to the students, Hodges or his wife read aloud from Sorcer's Stone. Another sign of the times, here in "Harry is evil" S.C.- no one even looks at me strangely when I wear the Sorting Hat charm on a chain around my neck. I may be wrong, but last year it wouldn't have been this way. ~ Circe From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 16:55:35 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:55:35 -0000 Subject: the lake, PoA, Texas Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9731 Julia wrote: "Somone mentioned that lake extended to Hogsmeade.. well, another thing to think about.. Harry travels to Hogsmeades through the secret passageway.. so it really can't be too far. Maybe it's a mile.. but that would still make the lake too large to walk around. I tend to suscribe to the idea that they walked along the lake near the castle." I think that everyone is missing the point. The lake is magic. The perimeter is much shorter, so it is possible to walk fairly quickly around the whole of the lake (say 20 minutes). While this is the case the lake itself is massive and holds a much larger volume of water than this small perimeter would allow in a Muggle world. Thus Harry and Hermione walked around the lake three times in GoF fairly quickly say about 1/2 hour, but the lake is absolutely massive for its residents and so is plenty big enough for the second task. Amy Z (have we been on a membership drive aimed solely at people named Amy? We seem to have lots of people around with that name know - causing me total confusion (this is not a problem - it has just amused me how some names seem a lot more represented around here than others)) wrote: "Gosh, imagine reading GoF before PoA--PoA would be ruined by the time you'd gotten to chapter 2." It depends on what you mean by spoiling, I read the books in order. On reading the blurb for PoA I instantly decided that Sirius was innocent - I was glad to be proved right over that! I suppose it would have spoilt the Scabbers = Peter = bad thing, but I am not sure that would have been a problem. Penny wrote: "I decided we needed a location poll for Texans for purposes of regional get-togethers. People in El Paso aren't exactly a hop, skip & a jump away from those of us in Houston after all." All these minor problems caused by such a small state! Texas covers a tiny amount in the map book I got out earlier and the UK takes up pages. I do not see what the problem is! - from the person who has just ignored the whole idea of scale to make what can only be called a poor joke (if people are being generous). Simon From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 17:06:18 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:06:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: sigh...cream again References: <949d6o+nqdc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A68740A.19989511@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9732 knightma at sabc.co.za wrote: > Megan Knight, who when she isn't writing websites bakes the most > decadent and fattening pastries imaginable, and has two jars of > clotted cream in her fridge for this weekend's effort. Where do you live? What time can I come over? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 17:10:08 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:10:08 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups References: <979909837.96419@egroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6874F0.E1A7F733@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9733 HPforGrownups at egroups.com wrote: > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups > group: Texans of the list, unite! Seriously, if you respond we'll have a collected list which can give us a better idea of where to situate any sort of major gathering. Good thought, Pollster! --Amanda From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 19 17:11:39 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:11:39 -0600 Subject: Link to Daily News Article on Wand Order Problem References: <949pg1+91ue@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A68754B.9C116B53@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9734 Hi -- Amy wrote: > Penny, you're my listmom and I love you, but I disagree with you on the > correction. That's okay -- goodness knows, I get disagreed with plenty of times around here. > First, it isn't just a pronoun swap. There are the usual physical > descriptions plus, more significantly, the omission of the line "She > wants to see you," an omission I disagree with but it does > show some editorial thought. Well, yes, they swapped up the physical descriptions somewhat, but it's still basically (IMO) just a swap of pronouns & proper names. The thing I disagree most strongly with is that they just left it as though he'd been thinking about his mum that night. That's the part that doesn't make much sense as rewritten. To me anyway. But, maybe that's because I see a definite shift in Harry starting at the end of PoA. The focus in SS/PS is on his mother's sacrifice & the layer of protection, and of course, he invokes his muggle-born mum in his confrontation with Riddle in CoS. But, beginning in PoA, as he learns more & more about his father & forges a relationship with his father's closest friends (other than Pettigrew of course!), I think he starts to identify more & more with his Dad. My favorite quote in the entire series is a signature tag I still use occasionally from Dumbledore's chat with Harry at the end of PoA: "Your father is alive in you, Harry, and shows himself most plainly when you have need of him." Then, you read the GoF scene, and he's thinking to himself that he wants to defend himself against Voldemort the way his father did, upright & proud, not "crouching like a child playing hide-and-seek." This says to me that psychologically Harry is shifting away from being a child (who might think of his Mum first) to an adolescent male who might more likely think of his father & how his father would react or handle a given situation. And, as rewritten, they didn't go back & add him thinking about his Mum and eliminate the bit about wanting to defend himself like his father did. So .... to me, the rewritten scene makes no sense from that standpoint. > (As for the recent question of whether it *should* be James, more than > Lily, who "he'd thought of more than any other tonight": that is > unchanged. The text now reads "the woman appearing was the one he'd > thought of more than any other tonight," not "the person appearing." So > James can still be the person most on his mind, if we insist on > knowing.) But, as I said above, he hadn't had *any* thoughts of his mother that are directly communicated to the reader. His direct thoughts are about his father. > Until we've read them all, we won't be able to judge whether this > correction was really necessary, but the author thinks it was and that's > good enough for me (even if she doesn't even know how many students go > to Hogwarts ). I think it's a bit unfair when people say "she > should've worked her way out of it." I agree with you that JKR is best able to say whether the gaffe should be corrected or not. If it's an error, it's an error. I do think that it would have been more fun (and "face-saving" for her & her editors) if she had just worked out another creative solution in a later book, but I don't begrudge her the overall call to fix it now instead. My issue(s) are: (a) CNN reported the original "error" months ago and then the publishers set about to silently correct it without any notice to the public (who bought over 10 million copies of GoF before the correction was made), and (b) IMO, they corrected it strangely (as I explained above). It still doesn't read to me as though JKR wrote or approved the revised wording. I think she might have done a more expansive rewrite .... and I can't help wondering if the page layout/printing costs prompted the publishers to go for this "quick & easy fix." That's all. Also -- I might add that just like Neil who got a bit misquoted in the salon.com article, I too said lots of things to the Daily News reporter that didn't make it into the overall published piece. She obviously had space constraints. The NY Times guy already warned me also that he's doing a "small" piece, so it's possible that what I told him may also come off not quite as I would have intended it. Penny From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 17:15:05 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:15:05 -0600 Subject: OT- Salt Piles References: <949lua+7prs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A687618.6F888061@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9735 Jim Ferer wrote: > I'll check out JKR's picture for sure. She was standing next to the > salt piles under the Triborough Bridge? Doesn't sound very picturesque > to me, but I see too much of them. Um, what's a salt pile? --Amanda From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 17:21:30 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:21:30 -0000 Subject: Clotted cream and pastries (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9736 Megan Knight said: "who when she isn't writing websites bakes the most decadent and fattening pastries imaginable, and has two jars of clotted cream in her fridge for this weekend's effort." Amanda replied: "Where do you live? What time can I come over?" With an e-mail address ending in .za I would guess that you would have a long trip - that is South Africa. Fattening pastries - I never get round to cooking anything more exciting than a chocolate cake. Then I am a student so I an get away with only having a limited repertoire - especially as everyone loves the chocolate cake and would moan if whatever else I tried was not as good! Simon From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Jan 19 17:21:48 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 19 Jan 2001 17:21:48 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <979924908.66272@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9737 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: Do you read any Harry Potter-inspired fanfiction? o No, just not interested o No, don't want to "taint the canon" o Yes, but not very often o Yes, all the time, love it o Are you kidding? I WRITE it To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 17:31:32 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:31:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogwarts population and Wizarding culture References: <949r14+v2jf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6879F4.9FA83D20@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9738 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > We Muggles see reality TOTALLY differently, down to the underpinnings > of everything that we believe, from the way the Wizarding World sees > it. A famous quote says that "the speed of light will never be broken > by someone who has already decided that it's impossible." Wizarding > kids have a different set of things that they know are possible from > the set of things we teach our Muggle kids. And what we teach our > kids then requires a whole lot of additional education to give them > the details. Add to that our assumption that we impart this education > to ALL kids, regardless, which they clearly don't do in the Wizarding > World, where you have to have a certain level of magical ability to > get into the school (e.g. Neville). This whole discussion, while it answered the point it was addressing, also covers a point I had tried to make on whether the books are "fair mysteries." I believe they are, if the reader had the background to make automatic magical assumptions--i.e., a wizarding reader would "get" them. We, as Muggle readers, have hints sail right past us, that later become obvious, but we don't have the correct set of world assumptions to solve the mystery the first time 'round. I think that's part of the charm of the books, that they *are* figure-out-able, but only if you can unbend your mind sufficiently. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 17:36:11 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:36:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texan scale for poor Simon References: Message-ID: <3A687B0A.FE573877@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9739 Simon wrote: > All these minor problems caused by such a small state! Texas covers a tiny > amount in the map book I got out earlier and the UK takes up pages. I do not > see what the problem is! - from the person who has just ignored the > whole idea of scale to make what can only be called a poor joke (if people > are being generous). My parents had a friend from Wales (who teaches at Cornell now), who lived in San Antonio, had just bought his first car, and saw the sign that said "El Paso, 8++ miles," and was so intrigued that anywhere in one state could be over eight hundred miles from anywhere else that he drove there. Right there and then. He's still an inveterate road-tripper. Driving from San Antonio to Los Angeles, over half the journey is in Texas. When you ask a Texan how far away someplace is, you get an answer in hours, not miles (i.e., Houston's four hours away, Austin's an hour & a half, etc.). And most of it is woeful flat boring stuff to drive through, too. God's ping-pong table. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 17:39:28 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 11:39:28 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups References: <979924908.66272@egroups.com> Message-ID: <3A687BD0.6AE81195@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9740 Sorry about the double post; I've never done this before and I was trying to remove the concluding date. Oh, well. So it'll conclude, so hurry up and vote. --Amanda HPforGrownups at egroups.com wrote: > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups > group: > > Do you read any Harry Potter-inspired > fanfiction? > > o No, just not interested > o No, don't want to "taint the canon" > o Yes, but not very often > o Yes, all the time, love it > o Are you kidding? I WRITE it > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From yael_pou at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 13:39:28 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:39:28 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] To fanfic or not to fanfic References: <946lpp+h9i4@eGroups.com> <3A672EC9.CA1CA429@texas.net> <3A67C6EB.2EA4643E@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9741 yael-pou wrote: > There are fics out there, good ones, that do not occur during Harry's Hogwarts years, and have almost nothing in common with the canon plot. Take PoU for instance, there is no chance it would get you confused about the HP main-stream. And when i say 'take PoU' i mean it literally. It's not just a good fic, it's a great work of art. After that, you can start on ASA and STNE, both fit into the same 'wonderful but harmless' categories. Amanda wrote: No, you misunderstand my reason. It has nothing to do with getting confused about the plot. It has to do with purity of character perception. If I read fanfic I'd inevitably get fuzzy on character development and motivations, because the "feel" I got from a fanfic version of a character would blend over into the "feel" I get from the book version of the character. I'm into experiencing JKR's vision and trying to figure out *her* characters, and until I have the whole vision I don't want to muddy the waters. I'm not saying there isn't great fanfic out there. I'm sorry. I did misunderstand your reason. You are truly obsessed, and have my appreciation for it. :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 19 19:01:59 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 13:01:59 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] To fanfic or not to fanfic References: <946lpp+h9i4@eGroups.com> <3A672EC9.CA1CA429@texas.net> <3A67C6EB.2EA4643E@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A688F26.B3B754B1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9742 yael-pou wrote: > I'm sorry. I did misunderstand your reason. You are truly obsessed, and have my appreciation for it. :) Interesting. Those who read fanfic nonstop are obsessed because they can't get enough. Those who avoid fanfic to "save themselves for books 5-7" are obsessed because they're purists. This means something. --Amanda, who has to go pick up the kids now and can't ponder anymore From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 19:06:23 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (Ffion Miles) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:06:23 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9743 Hi mitz! I'm new to HPfor Grownups too - I seem to've had dozens of emails - is that how it works? everyone emails everyone? Anyway, on the 'how many people are there in Hogwarts' question - I've been confused too - because e.g in a Quidditch match, there were 200 Slytherin suports, all dressed in green - and assuing there's 200 in each house, and seven years, there's about ... 30 from each house in one year. But there does only seem to be ten [5 girls, 5 boys] Gryffindors wheneer Harry has classes! Oh well, we shouldn't really nitpick mere details as this when the geneus of JKR has enough to do coming up with such amazing twists and plotlines that I [although anine-year-old I know does] guess what's going to happen. And I hope you've got the cream-thing sorted. Is this an American/UK cross-over problem? Is 'Westham' [as in Dean, the Westham fan] causing you any difficulty? That's a football [soccer[ team in East London - their not that good! Ffion _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 19 19:11:09 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:11:09 -0000 Subject: Sympathetic Slytherins, Snape (was Howdy; ponderings) In-Reply-To: <949mmc+vmro@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94a3gd+92mn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9744 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > "Hi, Marvin! My name is Amy and I'm a Harry Potter addict." > [snip] It should be excruciating and interesting. DM is a good > candidate for one who, like Snape, painfully chooses the side of good > while remaining a thoroughly unpleasant person. I dunno, Draco is such a little snot (and reminds me so much of some other little snots I knew growing up) that I can't convince myself he'll be redeemed in any way. On the other hand, JKR has basically turned him into a self-sabotaging punching bag for Harry & Co. -- whenever they want to vent some steam, an opportunity arises to curse or pummel ol' Draco. It's not very fair, really (Draco: "It's not my fault! The author had it in for me!"). Still, if Harry is forced to trust him at some point, it'll make for some great suspense! > > And finally, I agree that we need a 12-step program. Wednesday and > Friday nights, non-smoking, please. Ok, but what about booze? I could never make it through a 12-step if I weren't allowed to bring a six-pack of Dos Xs. marvin From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 19:15:18 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (Ffion Miles) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:15:18 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9745 Hi John Walton - wow, Ann Widdecombe dressed as a Veela [and I thought they were suposed to be aluring, and not bowly-haired, 'still lives with mother' with dubeous sexuality-type creatures!] but yes - please write your HP/UK politicas comparison - but I must insist that william Hague is wormtail - he's just made for it. And maybe Thatcher could be Snape [Imean, she is a man in drag anyway]. Ffion _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 07:23:19 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 08:23:19 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsession Quiz and Shipping personality test References: <948mjf+3ham@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b501c082b1$e15d8a40$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9746 Ebony admitted, > BTW, this would mark the third time in two days I've lost Aberforth's > Goat's challenge to not promote my ship. :-) Shameful, innit? Very. Your saucer has two frowning faces on it so far. If you keep sailing at this rate, I'll have to change the inscription to "Damn the Torpedoes, full speed ahead!" =:-> Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who is getting over that weird, responsible feeling he had yesterday afternoon between 3.31 and 3.47.) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Fri Jan 19 19:22:28 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:22:28 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz References: <948ksk+bj43@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00b101c0824d$f20ced40$68407bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 9747 > > What about the fact that my partner and I ordered TWO copies of the > Goblet of Fire so that we could read them at the same time? Does it > count that we went LOOKING for the Fed Ex truck from Amazon.com and > seriously considered driving to town at 10:30 a.m. and buying another > copy? > Hey, I ordered my GOF from Amazon.uk well in time and then went out and bought a copy from Ottakars on the Monday because GOF hadn't arrived !! Bearing in mind it was bucketing with rain and I had to use our crappy local bus system to get home I think that that is obsessive ! Still only got 41 % ! Michelle From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 19 19:42:35 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 19 Jan 2001 11:42:35 -0800 Subject: OT posts Message-ID: <20010119194235.21639.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9748 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 19 19:23:26 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:23:26 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Texas poll/Regional Meetings References: <979909837.96419@egroups.com> <3A6874F0.E1A7F733@texas.net> Message-ID: <00c501c0824d$4cebfa40$f93670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9749 > > Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups > > group: > > Texans of the list, unite! Seriously, if you respond we'll have a > collected list which can give us a better idea of where to situate any > sort of major gathering. Good thought, Pollster! Apart from the location polls, can I remind members that there is also a Database for member locations where you can record your location, name and e-mail address for contact purposes. There are five Texans in there already... woah! It's a stampede!!! The Database is here: http://www.egroups.com/database/HPforGrownups?method=reportRows&tbl=8 Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From slevy at bucknell.edu Fri Jan 19 19:58:47 2001 From: slevy at bucknell.edu (Seth Levy) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:58:47 -0500 Subject: questions from a new guy Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9750 Just want to say that I joined the list yesterday and am enjoying the discussions especially the archives and seeing people's thoughts. Some questions that are bothering me are: Why is their so little mention of Dean and Seamus? I would think that since they both live with Harry and are two of 5 roomates their should be more interaction with them. Why does it seem that students look down at the hufflepuffs? Personally this is where i would want to live? Has there ever been a poll to see which book the readers enjoy the most? Thanks Seth From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jan 19 19:55:11 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:55:11 -0000 Subject: Out of Sequence Reading In-Reply-To: <949mcj+5akv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94a62v+ltmr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9751 I was introduced to HP by listening to Jim Dale's tapes of book 3, POA, while I was refinishing some furniture. My wife *made* me listen to them -- I wasn't interested in reading a "kid's" book, especially because it was being so over-hyped at that time. The furniture was finished before the tapes ran out, but it was too late - - I was hooked. Listening to the book 3 tapes didn't spoil books 1 and 2 for me because Jim Dale's reading was so entrancing that the actual details didn't seem to matter. I think it would have been different if I had actually *read* POA first. -Jim Flanagan ...Who has read BOTH PS and SS, AND is is nearly finished reading all four in French, AND read The Magician's Nephew BEFORE The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. > Anyone else read 'em out of order? > > Amy Z > > ...who worries deeply about those poor children who actually pay > attention to the numbers on the spines of the newer Narnia editions > and read The Magician's Nephew before they read The Lion, the Witch > and the Wardrobe From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 20:20:02 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (ffionmiles at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:20:02 -0000 Subject: lake musings In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20010119105326.007c0920@mail.madbbs.com> Message-ID: <94a7hi+77k7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9752 In reply to 'how large is the lake@ question - JK definatelyr efers to Harry walking round the lake [I think when he and Hermione go for a walk the day after the Goblet throws out his name,a nd when he knows it's a dragon he must face] and he stands on the other side of the lake to create the patronus which saves himself, Hermione and Sirius from the dementors in P&A ... and the first years do walk up a bit of a muddy track from the train station to the lake, before getting in the boats and rowing over to Hogwarts! But I prefer Julie's idea of the lake shrinking/growing - it is magic, afterall! Ffion P.S. I am new to HPforGrownups - but am definately a HP devotee - it's great to see a site where I can be quite sure I'm not talking to nine-year-olds [althougknow one of that age who is infinately more perceptive tot he plotlines than I am!] h From Jeremy.Welsh at udapgh.com Fri Jan 19 20:27:19 2001 From: Jeremy.Welsh at udapgh.com (Jeremy Welsh) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:27:19 -0500 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9753 Hello. I guess I will follow the trend and send an email off to the list to introduce myself. I, too, am a recent subscriber, prompted to enter the fray by the Salon.com article (Salon, quite possibly, is my favorite internet site; intelligent, fresh, humorous . . . ). And after two days of being subscribed, I am just amazed by the volume of emails that I get! I come into work with four complete Digests waiting for me. Rather incredible . . . Just a bit of background. I am a 25 year old architect and urban designer here in Pittsburgh, my home town. Last Christmas, after getting somewhat sucked-into the growing media hype that surrounded the first two Harry Potter books, I asked for Year One. Well, I might have been the only fan down at Phish's Big Cypress Celebration reading Harry Potter between sets (it made for an interesting combination of images and feelings); it didn't take me long to be hooked. I came close to finishing the book driving/sitting in the traffic jam on the way out of the concert, and a day later, I had to go track down the Second Year in Sarasota. Which I finished in a day. I guess I liked the books . . . As a youngin', I really enjoyed works of fantasy (particularly Tolkein and the Dragonlance Chronicles trilogy). I have really enjoyed finding a series that takes me back to those joys of my youth; a fantasy series that is fun, somewhat light, humorous, and easy to read. As I said above, I am a bit amazed by the volume, and the intelligence, of emails that I have been receiving. While I don't think I am obsessed as some of you out there ; ) , I think I do need to pick the books back up again and read them through for the second time. I know I am jumping into this a bit late, but I was wondering how many of you went to one of those Midnight sales of Year Four. My fianc? and I went to a bookstore that evening, after a Phish show, and we were blown away by the number of kids and adults filling the store. It was Midnight! Shouldn't have all those kids been in bed?! ; ) Needless to say, I was a bit tired and decided not to wait the two hours it would have taken to get the book. I picked it up the next day . . . Thanks for reading and take care! jeremy welsh "I call Architecture frozen Music." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, (1749-1832) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 19 20:29:13 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:29:13 +0100 Subject: HP - The Movie O.S.T Message-ID: <002601c08256$a306bce0$0e2c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9754 While thinking about the movie one of my main concerns was always which music they'd use fo it. Now I heard several times that Robbie Williams will do the Soundtrack and just wanted to know what you think about it. The lyrics on his CD's are really good, so is his music, but I still wonder how they will make it work. I'm sure they'll have one big song for the movie to get a hit out of it. I can see a song dealing with being down and having a bad life and then you discover that you can be a hero. I think that would suit the spirit of the books. About strenght and courage and believing in yourself. It's also a thing that Williams could do just great. Or are there any other songs already existent that you could think of being great in the movie? Thought anyone? ~ Dinah ~ (As long as it's not Pok?mon tralala, I'm happy) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch Madness takes it's toll; please have exact change [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 20:30:32 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (ffionmiles at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:30:32 -0000 Subject: questions from a new guy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94a858+vevd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9755 Hi Seth! [I'm a new member too!]. On the 'why does everyone look down on the Hufflpuffs' - I suppose there's always a bit of an uncool stream in every school - I know there was in my school - they just seeme [and for no real reason] to be less clever, less cool than the rest of the classes - and I suppose being known [as the sorting hat says] for being hard workers isn't as glamorous as being brave or clever/witty - or even ruthlessly ambitious! As to the lack of interaction with Dean and Seamus - I agree - Neville does seem to have a higher profile than they do and I think they'd be a source for humour! [despite Dean's choice of football team]. to any non-football [soccer] out thee, Westham aren't exactly the coolest team in the Premiereship ]that's the top division f the English/Welsh football league] - that'd make Dean a real eastender from London! Ffion From rlpenar at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 20:31:11 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:31:11 -0000 Subject: questions from a new guy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94a86f+ig3a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9756 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Seth Levy" wrote: > Just want to say that I joined the list yesterday and am enjoying the > discussions especially the archives and seeing people's thoughts. Some > questions that are bothering me are: > > Why is their so little mention of Dean and Seamus? I would think that since > they both live with Harry and are two of 5 roomates their should be more > interaction with them. Hi Seth & welcome (feels funny to say welcome as I have been on the list for all of 3 days, he he)-- I think that Dean and Seamus' times are comin'. I am of the opinion that although there must be other (undeveloped) characters in any book in order for it to work properly, I think that the reason that JKR says that she is a series writer and not a single novel writer is because she wants time to explore each seemingly non-major character. Personally, I would love to go back and re-read all of the refernces to Dean and Seamus to try to play the fun game of "gues where JKR will go with this". > > Why does it seem that students look down at the hufflepuffs? Personally > this is where i would want to live? I cannot think of an exact example where they were looked down upon, but it seems as though the Ravenclaws are at about the same level?? It's almost like the Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs aren't quite *cool* enough to have gotten into Gryffindor but weren't bad enough to go to Slytherin - they're sort of the purgatories of Hogwarts...but I also think that we will learn MUCH more about these houses in the future... > > Has there ever been a poll to see which book the readers enjoy the most? > I don't know, as I've only been on this list 3 days. > Thanks > Seth Your welcome! Becky From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Fri Jan 19 20:40:03 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 19 Jan 2001 20:40:03 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <979936803.67793@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9757 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: Which book is best? o Philosopher's / Sorcerer's Stone o Chamber of Secrets o Prisoner of Azkaban o Goblet of Fire To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 20:41:44 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:41:44 -0000 Subject: Obsession Quiz and Shipping personality test In-Reply-To: <00b501c082b1$e15d8a40$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <94a8q8+m619@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9758 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > Ebony admitted, > > > BTW, this would mark the third time in two days I've lost Aberforth's > > Goat's challenge to not promote my ship. :-) Shameful, innit? > > Very. Your saucer has two frowning faces on it so far. If you keep sailing > at this rate, I'll have to change the inscription to "Damn the Torpedoes, > full speed ahead!" =:-> > > Baaaaaa! Hey! I actually *wrote* an R/H wedding scene... never mind the fact that I gritted my teeth all the way through typing it up... and the R/Hers liked it! Doesn't that count for something, Your Goatliness? Can't a girl get credit for trying? ;-) --Ebony From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 20:46:27 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (ffionmiles at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:46:27 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? Message-ID: <94a933+veo4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9759 Hi! I'm new to this site - but the discussions I have found pottering about HPfor Grownups have been fascinating - I'm glad there are other people [out of their teens] who give so much thought to these works as I seem to! I have a topic to discuss - since the books are getting darker, and life more complicated, painful, turbulant for Harry & Co, I have a feeling that JKR will reflect this 'darkening' by, at some point, klling off a character more dear to us than Cedric. TThis would show that, when there's evil like Voldemort around, awful, harrowing things do happen ... but who will it be? I don't think she'd kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione - that'd just be too unbearable - but one of the Weasley twins? That would really be a symbol of how distructive to good people Voldemort is. Any thoughts? Ffion From nlpnt at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 20:46:43 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:46:43 -0000 Subject: Harry's taste, was leather aversion, fanfic, etc./Bean In-Reply-To: <949mrp+ubd1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94a93j+9kl9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9760 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Susan wrote: > > > > Harry well dressed is in LLBean gear > > I have to weigh in on the extremely important topic of Harry's > attire to say that he does NOT lean toward LLBean. He is way too > non-looks-conscious for that. Otherwise he'd have traded in his round > black specs for tortoiseshell a long time ago and done something about > that hair. I see him in much more downscale clothes, even once he's > liberated from the Dudley hand-me-downs. Sweaters and jeans, yes, but > not quite so going-out-boating-with-the-boys as LLBean. I can seriously see him doing as I do, only clothes-shopping at stores whose names end in "-Mart" (as in Wal- or K-) or the British equivalent. In fact the only problem I had with PoU is that Lori had him driving a Jeep- way too trendy for Harry, imho. I see him with a Mini, perhaps one of the last of the black-bumpered base models from the early-mid '90s (can any Brits tell me what that model was called?) From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 08:56:11 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:56:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogwarts population and Wizarding culture References: <949r14+v2jf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00c701c082be$d71441c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9761 > So about Hogwarts: in the Wizarding culture, the kids with the most > inherent magic go to Hogwarts (they're the ones who the magic quill > chooses), while the rest, with lesser magic abilities, are educated > in other ways and apprentice into trades. This makes perfect sense, of course. It is also similar to a continental European style of secondary education. In Switzerland, universities accept only the minority of students who complete a "Matura," generally at a school called a "Gymnasium." Most Swiss teenagers go through a combined trade school and apprenticeship. Hogwarts could be considered a "Gymnasium"--or an academic institution for the future intelligentsia. But is there any hard evidence for this? For instance, PoA says Stan is 18 or 19, which means he *is* old enough to have graduated at the bottom of the Hogwarts class (and have been voted student most likely to endanger the survival of the genus Bobotuberus). Do you know of any evidence for a wizard who isn't a squib but didn't go to Hogwarts? Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 19 20:21:30 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:21:30 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP - The Movie O.S.T References: <002601c08256$a306bce0$0e2c07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <019d01c08255$68fb3ae0$f93670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9762 Dinah said: <> Dinah, I think the composer *John* Williams is writing the score (he did "Close Encounters..." and others), not that cheeky little sexpot, Robbie Williams. It could be fun though... My worst nightmare would be a film littered with songs by Steps and Aqua. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 20:55:33 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:55:33 -0000 Subject: Movie soundtrack and football Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9763 Dinah wrote: "While thinking about the movie one of my main concerns was always which music they'd use fo it. Now I heard several times that Robbie Williams will do the Soundtrack and just wanted to know what you think about it." Please - no! Not Robbie Williams. Ffion wrote: "to any non-football [soccer] out thee, Westham aren't exactly the coolest team in the Premiereship ]that's the top division f the English/Welsh football league" Technically The Carling Premiership is only for English football in which the top 20 teams play. Below this there are 3 leagues of 24 teams. The Welsh have their own leagues. It just happens that a couple of the Welsh teams play in the English leagues - to get a better game each week. Simon From allyson at ptd.net Fri Jan 19 21:03:41 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:03:41 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? References: <94a933+veo4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000d01c0825b$503a3280$9604bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9764 I am relatively new to this list as well. I have been more of a "lurker" I must admit, but I like this question. I think that, in a difference of opinion, it will be a character like Hermione or Ron. We all know it won't be Harry, himself, but I really have to wonder if JKR would sugar coat the idea of evil/good by NOT killing off a character near and dear to our hearts. I personally LOVE Hermione. She is by far my favorite character and I would hate to see her killed off, but I have to wonder. Should it not be Hermione or Ron, I do believe it will be a character such as one of the Weasley twins, or possibly Neville. ----- Original Message ----- From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 3:46 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Hi! I'm new to this site - but the discussions I have found pottering about HPfor Grownups have been fascinating - I'm glad there are other people [out of their teens] who give so much thought to these works as I seem to! I have a topic to discuss - since the books are getting darker, and life more complicated, painful, turbulant for Harry & Co, I have a feeling that JKR will reflect this 'darkening' by, at some point, klling off a character more dear to us than Cedric. TThis would show that, when there's evil like Voldemort around, awful, harrowing things do happen ... but who will it be? I don't think she'd kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione - that'd just be too unbearable - but one of the Weasley twins? That would really be a symbol of how distructive to good people Voldemort is. Any thoughts? Ffion To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rlpenar at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 21:04:05 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:04:05 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: <000d01c0825b$503a3280$9604bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94aa46+jrbe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9765 Just a quick thought here - keeping with the 'Harry is written as a children's book for children' theme, would JKR really kill off such a major player that children (like us) have become so attached to?? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: > I am relatively new to this list as well. I have been more of a "lurker" I must admit, but I like this question. > > I think that, in a difference of opinion, it will be a character like Hermione or Ron. We all know it won't be Harry, himself, but I really have to wonder if JKR would sugar coat the idea of evil/good by NOT killing off a character near and dear to our hearts. I personally LOVE Hermione. She is by far my favorite character and I would hate to see her killed off, but I have to wonder. Should it not be Hermione or Ron, I do believe it will be a character such as one of the Weasley twins, or possibly Neville. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ffionmiles at h... > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 3:46 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? > > > Hi! I'm new to this site - but the discussions I have found > pottering about HPfor Grownups have been fascinating - I'm glad there > are other people [out of their teens] who give so much thought to > these works as I seem to! > > I have a topic to discuss - since the books are getting darker, and > life more complicated, painful, turbulant for Harry & Co, I have a > feeling that JKR will reflect this 'darkening' by, at some point, > klling off a character more dear to us than Cedric. > TThis would show that, when there's evil like Voldemort around, > awful, harrowing things do happen ... but who will it be? > > I don't think she'd kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione - that'd just be > too unbearable - but one of the Weasley twins? That would really be > a symbol of how distructive to good people Voldemort is. > > Any thoughts? > > Ffion > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 21:14:04 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:14:04 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <949q2c+ingm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94aams+e2ja@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9766 I *really* like this thread... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long" wrote: > If JKR is patterning the wizarding world on Britain, then there's > probably a Lords/Commons split in magical society, perhaps one more > pronounced than what exists today since one doesn't get the feeling > that the wizarding world has heavily influenced by Marx and Engles, > say. Exactly. Perhaps magical society is the last bastion of feudalism, of a sort? The values and mores seem to be different from those of modern Western culture... I'd say they're more conservative. > I wonder if Britain has any magic schools other than Hogwarts...surely one school per country isn't enough to educate all the wizards and witches who populate the magical world! I seem to recall seeing it implied that Hogwarts takes all kids with magical ability, but that strikes me as improbable. My guess is that they offer places to children based on parentage (Hogwarts being the most prestigious of institutions) and talent; and kids who don't meet the criteria go to lesser schools or maybe even the wizarding equivalent of trade-school. That, or Hogwarts must have a LOT of dropouts.... This ties in with the threads about "Number of Students in Hogwarts". It's one of the more popular debates--stick around. There are Large Scale Hogwarts advocates, while others lean towards a smaller school. If Hogwarts can hold 1000+ students, I'm very comfortable with it being the only wizarding school for the UK and Ireland (which seems to be part of the same magical jurisdiction, judging from Seamus Finnegan and the officiants of the Quidditch World Cup). I lean more toward a small Hogwarts/small wizarding world myself. Listmom Penny gives some great arguments for this. This was a pre- fandom assumption of mine, if only because the interpersonal relations within this milieu seem *so* intimate. Also, Hagrid does make the statement "if we hadn't married Muggles we'd have died out". So it doesn't bother me that Hogwarts is the only UK school for magical kids. If a larger percentage of the British population were magical and produced magic kids, it would be very difficult to keep all evidence of it hidden. GoF made me curious about the nature of magical education in this fictional society worldwide. Hogwarts, Beauxbatons, and Durmstrang are mentioned as the three largest (?) schools of wizardry in Europe. However, what of the rest of the world? Club member Rita Winston (also known as Catlady) has some of the *best* theories about magical societies throughout the world. Among other topics, she and I have talked in the past about the effects that events like the Spanish Inquisition, the conquest of the Americas, and the transatlantic slave trade might have had on the development of Hogwarts-like (what I mean is structured) educational systems... she'd be a great person to talk to, and I really hope some of her posts from the Yahoo! group makes it into the appropriate FAQ. Rita, if you're around, why don't we start the thread re: Magical Schools Worldwide going again? It's been a while since we've discussed it here. > >How does this world deal with poverty? > > I have no idea...I wonder if there are wizards who "slum" by getting > jobs in the Muggle world if they can't find a position in the > wizarding occupations. I get the impression that their world tends > towards a kind of relaxed oligarchy. Hmm. The only poor family we've seen thus far are the Weasleys, and they're not destitute. I'm still forming my opinions on this. In most children's literature, groups such as the socioeconomic underclass (aka "the dregs of society") seem to be marginalized out of the picture. What do you read between the lines? Most of the Hogwarts kids seem to have come from solidly middle class backgrounds. Well, I work with kids in a city where an estimated 50% of families live below the poverty line... and I don't mean the Weasleys. Would such kids in England get letters from Hogwarts, if they had magical ability? What if they had no home for the letters to be sent to? What if their parents could not afford the books/robes/wand? Are there funds available? Or is this kid, magical though they might be, just out of luck? Again, great post! Thanks for giving me something else to think about besides shipping. ;-) >(ps, what's your major/discipline, that you get to study > history of rhetoric?) Thanks so much for the information--that was a good start and I may e- mail you off list later if you don't mind. I'm in a combined M.A./Ph.D program in English Composition and Rhetoric (with a minor in Creative Writing)... so the class was required. In undergrad, the original intention was not to become an academic, so I took the secondary education track rather than the humanities one when earning my English undergrad degree. Tsk, tsk, tsk... --Ebony From allyson at ptd.net Fri Jan 19 21:24:12 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:24:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? References: <94aa46+jrbe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002f01c0825e$5bfb33a0$9604bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9767 I just think that death is an inevitable fact of life that we (children or not) have to deal with whether it is a likable person whom we have become attached to or not. It would be a devastation to have a lovable character killed off, don't get me wrong, but whether the character is likable or not, should not be the determining factor IMHO. ----- Original Message ----- From: Becky Penar To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 4:04 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? Just a quick thought here - keeping with the 'Harry is written as a children's book for children' theme, would JKR really kill off such a major player that children (like us) have become so attached to?? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: > I am relatively new to this list as well. I have been more of a "lurker" I must admit, but I like this question. > > I think that, in a difference of opinion, it will be a character like Hermione or Ron. We all know it won't be Harry, himself, but I really have to wonder if JKR would sugar coat the idea of evil/good by NOT killing off a character near and dear to our hearts. I personally LOVE Hermione. She is by far my favorite character and I would hate to see her killed off, but I have to wonder. Should it not be Hermione or Ron, I do believe it will be a character such as one of the Weasley twins, or possibly Neville. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ffionmiles at h... > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 3:46 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? > > > Hi! I'm new to this site - but the discussions I have found > pottering about HPfor Grownups have been fascinating - I'm glad there > are other people [out of their teens] who give so much thought to > these works as I seem to! > > I have a topic to discuss - since the books are getting darker, and > life more complicated, painful, turbulant for Harry & Co, I have a > feeling that JKR will reflect this 'darkening' by, at some point, > klling off a character more dear to us than Cedric. > TThis would show that, when there's evil like Voldemort around, > awful, harrowing things do happen ... but who will it be? > > I don't think she'd kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione - that'd just be > too unbearable - but one of the Weasley twins? That would really be > a symbol of how distructive to good people Voldemort is. > > Any thoughts? > > Ffion > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 19 21:22:07 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:22:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP - The Movie O.S.T References: <002601c08256$a306bce0$0e2c07d5@oemcomputer> <019d01c08255$68fb3ae0$f93670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <00b501c0825d$e0ebe7e0$0e2c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9768 > Dinah, I think the composer *John* Williams is writing the score (he did > "Close Encounters..." and others), not that cheeky little sexpot, Robbie > Williams. It could be fun though... Could be that John Williams is doing the score (that'd be great) but I definitely read Robbie Williams will do the songs. They said it on some "Star magazine" and on MTV. Wait, I'll just hop off and see if I find a link somewhere... And I couldn't find anything except an unconfirmed rumour. So there's still hope that they find something really brilliant that doesn't sound so... out of place. ~ Dinah ~ (who really wishes the "Weird Sisters" would do the soundtrack) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 21:30:26 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:30:26 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar In-Reply-To: <949o39+qnb8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94abli+to3e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9769 I worked the number out, using the school population of my daughter's school system as a guide. I assumed there were eight schools of six years each, all with the same number of students. I adjusted for seven years at Hogwarts instead of six at my daughters' school. If the birthrates are exactly the same,and if Hogwarts is the only wizarding school in the UK, then the wizarding population of the UK is under 5000, without adjusting for muggle-borns like Hermione. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > Jim Ferer wrote: > My two daughters live in a town with 55,000 people in it. Their > elementary school has 366 students in six years, and there are at > least eight other elementary schools in town. And Hogwarts has 300 > students for the entire magical population of the UK? I can't make > it work in my head. > > Exactly. We really don't know the population of the wizarding > community in the UK. In SS/PS ch 1, Vernon Dudley saw quite a number > of people dressed in wizarding attire that day. So, many that he > thought there was some sort of convention. Only Dumbledore and > McGonagall knew Harry was to live with the Dursleys so it's unlikely > that those wizards converged in Little Whinging to welcome Harry home, > so to speak. So let's say that the entire wizarding population of > Little Whinging dressed in their wizard attire that day. Based upon > Vernon's observation, there's a good number of wizards and witches in > Little Whinging! Ans we can assume that there's a good number of > magical children there too...unless Little Whinging is a wizarding > retirement community. > > :-)Milz From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 21:43:16 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 15:43:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsession quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9770 >I got 61%. Not enough to warrant a trip to the Flying >Ford Clinic. Does this mean I have a 'healthy' >obsession? > >Sheryll Ok, so on the old younger folk quiz, i had about a 108%, mainly bc of backyard quidditch and i have an angel fish names hedwig....But where is the new quiz, i nees a link to the site!! Stephanie Terrified that there is ANOTHER stephanie, but glad she cals herself steph....btw, Welcome Steph! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 21:44:28 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:44:28 -0000 Subject: HP - The Movie O.S.T In-Reply-To: <00b501c0825d$e0ebe7e0$0e2c07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94acfs+ll9v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9771 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dinah" wrote: Dinah:"Could be that John Williams is doing the score (that'd be great) but I definitely read Robbie Williams will do the songs. They said it on some "Star magazine" and on MTV. Wait, I'll just hop off and see if I find a link somewhere... And I couldn't find anything except an unconfirmed rumour. So there's still hope that they find something really brilliant that doesn't sound so... out of place." Don't hope for much. I don't like John Williams doing the score either; too grandiose, too comic-book for me and this material. I would have liked to see Patrick Doyle or Jo Hisaishi. Warner's probably feels compelled to throw in some inane pop numbers that will get airplay. Actually, I've heard little about this movie that makes me feel good about it. From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 22:04:21 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:04:21 -0000 Subject: Link to Daily News Article on Wand Order Problem In-Reply-To: <3A68754B.9C116B53@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94adl5+4205@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9772 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Also -- I might add that just like Neil who got a bit misquoted in the > salon.com article, I too said lots of things to the Daily News reporter > that didn't make it into the overall published piece. She obviously had > space constraints. The NY Times guy already warned me also that he's > doing a "small" piece, so it's possible that what I told him may also come > off not quite as I would have intended it. Ah... beware the Rita Skeeter syndrome of the press... Dai From particle at urbanet.ch Fri Jan 19 22:06:27 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:06:27 +0100 Subject: OT: Swiss Education References: <949r14+v2jf@eGroups.com> <00c701c082be$d71441c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A68BA62.F09EE7A7@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9773 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > This makes perfect sense, of course. It is also similar to a continental > European style of secondary education. In Switzerland, universities accept > only the minority of students who complete a "Matura," generally at a school > called a "Gymnasium." Most Swiss teenagers go through a combined trade > school and apprenticeship. Hogwarts could be considered a "Gymnasium"--or an > academic institution for the future intelligentsia. Here in my section of the land of Swiss cheese, we call it the Maturit Fdrale. And I really don't like the streaming system - what happens to the talented but undisciplined kids? Do they end up as food vendors on the extensive train system, or what? It just seems too early to divide kids up at the age of 12/13. My brother did go to a Gymnase - but I go to a private school where we're only divided into primary students, juniors, and seniors, and neither of us took the Maturit. Good thing, too; it's quite an - interesting experience. Thirteen classes the first year, almost no free study periods, then exams for six or seven of the subjects at the end of the year, followed by another year with only their most important subjects. Um, not for me, thanks. That's why I take the IB (which, oddly enough, I've mentioned in another post today...) - equally excruciating, but at least we have only six subjects, a far greater range of choice, and study periods so we can work independently...of course, I'm sure plenty of you know that, seeing as Blaise is on this list as well ;). ~Firebolt From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 19 22:10:38 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 19 Jan 2001 14:10:38 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: questions from a new guy Message-ID: <20010119221038.24939.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9774 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From allyson at ptd.net Fri Jan 19 22:30:15 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:30:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: questions from a new guy References: <20010119221038.24939.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <007c01c08267$74cfed40$9604bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9775 Thanks Jeralyn. It was nice to find a place to talk HP with other adults. I certainly am addicted to Harry!!!!! I am a teacher in an alternative schooling setting and I have been using Harry Potter in my Reading Class and the kids are getting as into it as I am, although they think I am a little freakish for being almost 28 years old and loving Harry the way I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeralyn To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: questions from a new guy On Fri, 19 January 2001, "Becky Penar" wrote: [snip] I think that the reason that JKR says that she is a series writer and not a single novel writer is because she wants time to explore each seemingly non-major character. Actually, Becky, Jo has stated in interviews numerous times that she views her books not as a series, but as just one continuous story. But it would just be tooooo big to put the whole story into one book! Although I do agree with you that she will eventually get around to exploring every character - just not as much as Harry and Co. After all, they *are* the stars of the story! And welcome to all of our newcomers! My goodness, we're growing rather quickly! ;-) Jeralyn, the Voicelady Moderator Team _____________________________________________________________ This email message was sent via MailStation(tm) - a trademark of CIDCO Incorporated. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From malinaschick at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 22:28:08 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:28:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 456 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9776 > >Hey, Steph! Welcome! Glad you decided to join our little () >group. This is great, we're growing by leaps and bounds (hello and >welcome to all our new members!), and it's such fun. HPfGUs will >certainly keep you busy! BTW, great quiz, DrMM! I'm 64% obsessed; >not too bad, right? > >Kelley > Thanks for the welcome Kelley! I've been reading posts all day trying to get into the swing. I took the obession quiz, and sadly enuf, am only 51% obessed, but I feel that I have an unfair disadvantage of not being in london. My sister mentioned another quiz, how can I get to this one? On a different topic, I just finished reading CoS for about the 4th time and picked up on something. (big surprise! Something new every time! :) I wondered how old Hagrid was. I mean, I always pictured him as a younger wizard, but if it was before our time and draco says it was 50 years so it was before his fathers time too so if Hagrid was in school then he and was at least 13 then, (it was his third or second year? can't remember) then how old is he? @~~~ Steph "It's a whole new ballgame." -Dana _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 10:35:36 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:35:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsession Quiz and Shipping personality test References: <94a8q8+m619@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00d501c082cc$c3b60880$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 9777 Ebony said, > I actually *wrote* an R/H wedding scene... never mind the fact > that I gritted my teeth all the way through typing it up... Not to mention that in said bride's girdle "there was not a violet-which stands for faithfulness-in sight." Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who grew up in Sicily, where real men kept their women locked up, barefoot and pregnant, and who is rather suspicious of Ebony's Hermione.) P.S. And thinks it's a great yarn too! Catch Trouble in Paradise at http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=143632) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 19 22:39:19 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:39:19 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: <002f01c0825e$5bfb33a0$9604bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94afmn+epe0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9778 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: > I just think that death is an inevitable fact of life that we (children or not) have to deal with whether it is a likable person whom we have become attached to or not. It would be a devastation to have a lovable character killed off, don't get me wrong, but whether the character is likable or not, should not be the determining factor IMHO. > I think that the *way* a character is killed matters quite a bit, too. It might be "ok" if Ron, say, were to give his life valiantly for the cause of good; it would give that death meaning and poignancy, something to make up for betraying the hopes of the reader. The thing that shocked me a bit about Cedric's death was the suddeness and the meaninglessness of it. There was no particular struggle; he was just squashed like an inconvenient bug. And if JKR does that to Ron or Hermione...well, I'll be mighty irritated, let's just put it like that. marvin From smcfadyen at pivotal.com Fri Jan 19 22:42:35 2001 From: smcfadyen at pivotal.com (Suzanne McFadyen) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 14:42:35 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Message-ID: <7BE3811FF288D411BFF4009027AFC5040169F096@van-ex6.pivotal> No: HPFGUIDX 9779 I also have been lurking but thought I'd throw my two cents in. I watched an interview with JKR with a canadian journalist named Evan Solomon (show called HotType - very cool show if anyone happens to get CBC newsworld). She talked about the fact that things were going to get a bit grim and alluded to the fact that someone else was going to die and not someone on the sidelines. Strangely my first thought was Hagrid. I must admit I would be fairly upset if it was Ron or Hermione. Here's the question and her answers E: You know, characters take on their own lives. They have their own stories. Writers often say, 'I loved that character and the most tragic part of my year last year was having to kill them off.' JK: Well that's coming. E: Do you know already who is going to die in the next books? JK: I know all of them who are going to die, yeah. E: And some characters we might love and you might love? JK: I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah. (Waves to fans outside) It's horrible, isn't it? (Laughs) It is actually. I cried during the writing of that one [Book Four] for the first time ever. I cried doing the actual writing of it. It really upset me. Here is a link to the complete transcript of the interview http://cbc.ca/programs/sites/hottype_rowlingcomplete.html Suzanne McFadyen -----Original Message----- From: Allyson [mailto:allyson at ptd.net] Sent: January 19, 2001 13:04 To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? I am relatively new to this list as well. I have been more of a "lurker" I must admit, but I like this question. I think that, in a difference of opinion, it will be a character like Hermione or Ron. We all know it won't be Harry, himself, but I really have to wonder if JKR would sugar coat the idea of evil/good by NOT killing off a character near and dear to our hearts. I personally LOVE Hermione. She is by far my favorite character and I would hate to see her killed off, but I have to wonder. Should it not be Hermione or Ron, I do believe it will be a character such as one of the Weasley twins, or possibly Neville. ----- Original Message ----- From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 3:46 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Hi! I'm new to this site - but the discussions I have found pottering about HPfor Grownups have been fascinating - I'm glad there are other people [out of their teens] who give so much thought to these works as I seem to! I have a topic to discuss - since the books are getting darker, and life more complicated, painful, turbulant for Harry & Co, I have a feeling that JKR will reflect this 'darkening' by, at some point, klling off a character more dear to us than Cedric. TThis would show that, when there's evil like Voldemort around, awful, harrowing things do happen ... but who will it be? I don't think she'd kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione - that'd just be too unbearable - but one of the Weasley twins? That would really be a symbol of how distructive to good people Voldemort is. Any thoughts? Ffion To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Fri Jan 19 22:43:30 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:43:30 -0000 Subject: HP - The Movie O.S.T In-Reply-To: <94acfs+ll9v@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94afui+itjq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9780 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > Don't hope for much. I don't like John Williams doing the score > either; too grandiose, too comic-book for me and this material Comic book? This is the same guy who did the soundtracks for Saving Private Ryan and Schindlers List (particularly heartfelt violin solo lead on that one). What comic books do you read? OK he also did ET and Starwars but this just shows his range. Dai From lexac3 at usa.net Fri Jan 19 22:45:40 2001 From: lexac3 at usa.net (Alex Corvus) Date: 19 Jan 2001 15:45:40 MST Subject: zines again Message-ID: <20010119224540.18320.qmail@nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9781 Kelley said: >>I was thinking, as Penny said, along the lines of a non-profit sort of arrangement; basically the most popular and recommended fics that so many have fallen in love with, and only with the authors' consent.>> Oh absolutely - fannish ethics would dictate only with the authors' consent. It would be a matter of approaching those writers to get permission, or of soliciting submissions (that could be picked and chosen from). Another zine publishing convention is that the writers and illustrators in a zine each get a contributor's copy, so those free copies plus postage to mail them have to be factored in with your cost-of-production when you set the price of the zine. That's the way the contributors get "paid," and it's one of the best parts of submitting material to a zine. >>Like Carole, I've been printing some out and saving in spiral-binders, but that's a bit costly for me. But, it seems that zines could be as expensive, if not more. Thanks for all the info, Alexa. If the quality zines sell for $10-20, what do the ones that resemble trade paperbacks go for?>> De nada. I'm not an expert, though, I've only tribbed to and bought zines, never actually produced one. Ummmm .... I *think* the trade-sized zines I saw advertised went for $9-$13? I could be making that up entirely, it's been awhile. But the thing to remember when it comes to zines is that "quality" isn't necessarily connected to size, it has to do with the work and the materials that went into it. Prices are going to be pretty much the same for quality or for crap in a particular size, whether standard or trade, because you're paying cost-of-production. You're just gonna feel gypped if you found out you paid for crap. Quality may go for a bit higher if publishers go for a better grade of paper or for color art, for instance, or use a broader typeface for better readability so the formatting takes up more pages. Conversely, crap may go for a higher price, if a publisher inflates the number of pages by printing in, like, 13-point type with inch margins on every side of the page. With trade-sized zines, you're still paying pretty much the same amount for paper, printing and binding, you're just doing it in a different format. A trade-sized zine may not be as big as a standard (8 1/2x11) zine when it comes to height and width, but it's going to have to be thicker to get the same amount of material in it. A trade-sized zine that's cheaper than a standard zine is probably going to be cheaper because it's got less material in it. (all that being said, I think I'd like trade-sized because they're more portable and convenient - I've just never seen a zine that I particularly wanted in trade-sized. I think it's a cool idea, though.) Zines aren't cheap, and particularly with online culture being used to so-called "free" fanfiction, a lot of people aren't willing to pay for them these days. There is a fair bit of material in them, though ... I'm trying to think ... the last zine I got was a trib copy, so I didn't have to pay for it, but I believe the cost was $20, and I think it hovered around 200 pages - and that was in standard format, not trade-sized. It also had some wonderful art in it, including some four-process color, and the cover (heavy-stock paper) was slick, which isn't always the case. So when you consider what it would cost to make 100 double-sided copies (some more expensive because of the color) - or to print an entire ream of paper one-sided - plus the binder, plus the special stock for the cover, plus postage, it's not really a bad price. I know some people say, well, why don't I just print it out for myself, if I'm paying for all the paper and the binding anyway? It may be a bit cheaper to pay for it as a zine, because a zine publisher may be able to get a discount for bulk copies, but even if they don't, that's why a zine should have some quality behind it - it should have formatting and attention to details like typeface and point size that affect readability and make it look nice, details that *I* don't want to mess with when I'm printing it out myself; if it's got art, that's certainly not something I'm going to have access to elsewhere, and like I said before, it should also be edited not just for grammar and punctuation, but for content. (not that *that* always happens, but then, those are the zines I won't spend my money on) Someone who's printed out DD or DS or PoU or something else fairly standard - how many pages did it come to, and what formatting did you use? Page size really isn't a good indicator of how much you should be paying for a zine because formatting will change that - word count is better, but I can never for the life of me remember a good word-count-per-price cost - but it might enable a ballpark estimate of what cost and therefore price should be (subject to writer consent at all, of course - they're probably sitting back going, "*Wait* a minute!" ). >>What sort of interest would these publishers look for? Is there any minimum level? Do they base this on requests?>> Well, "they" is most likely to be "you." Someone within the fandom is probably going to have to step up and say "OK, I'm going to produce a zine, what kind of interest is there?" This is very much homemade stuff. Fanfiction zines are done by the fans - some more proficiently and with more expertise than others - but it's generally a situation where someone says, "hey, wouldn't it be cool if we could do a zine for X" and then does it. They walk amongst you, you just have to find the willing victims who will sacrifice their time and sanity to accept submissions/approach writers and artists, edit, format, lay it out, figure out which local copy shop will give you the best price for what kind of materials and what amount of printing and binding (and which copy shop is going to be willing to run the copies of it at all, especially if you have sexual material in it, particularly any of that nasty, nasty slash, tsk, tsk )- or conversely be willing to take on the mammoth task of doing the copying and collating and binding, themselves - and actually manage to get it all mailed out to the people who order copies. Even if someone wants to do this, though, it's still going to be dependent on demand. If you don't have enough interest, the costs of production could be high enough that it makes the cost of the zine prohibitive. Alexa Look at the way he's always grabbing Pecky ... All I'm saying, it's a lot of body contact, man. - Ryan O'Reilly explains sock-puppet subtext, OZ ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 From allyson at ptd.net Fri Jan 19 22:55:06 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 17:55:06 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? References: <7BE3811FF288D411BFF4009027AFC5040169F096@van-ex6.pivotal> Message-ID: <00ac01c0826a$dfcd6ca0$9604bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9782 I never gave Hagrid a thought. I guess I just always sort of picture him as immortal, you know??!!! I noticed she said 'I know all of them that are going to die.' That sort of bothers me, the allusion to more than one character dying. I would be upset if it were Ron or Hermione, I just have a feeling it will be one of them. ----- Original Message ----- From: Suzanne McFadyen To: 'HPforGrownups at egroups.com' Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 5:42 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? I also have been lurking but thought I'd throw my two cents in. I watched an interview with JKR with a canadian journalist named Evan Solomon (show called HotType - very cool show if anyone happens to get CBC newsworld). She talked about the fact that things were going to get a bit grim and alluded to the fact that someone else was going to die and not someone on the sidelines. Strangely my first thought was Hagrid. I must admit I would be fairly upset if it was Ron or Hermione. Here's the question and her answers E: You know, characters take on their own lives. They have their own stories. Writers often say, 'I loved that character and the most tragic part of my year last year was having to kill them off.' JK: Well that's coming. E: Do you know already who is going to die in the next books? JK: I know all of them who are going to die, yeah. E: And some characters we might love and you might love? JK: I'm definitely killing people I love, yeah. (Waves to fans outside) It's horrible, isn't it? (Laughs) It is actually. I cried during the writing of that one [Book Four] for the first time ever. I cried doing the actual writing of it. It really upset me. Here is a link to the complete transcript of the interview http://cbc.ca/programs/sites/hottype_rowlingcomplete.html Suzanne McFadyen -----Original Message----- From: Allyson [mailto:allyson at ptd.net] Sent: January 19, 2001 13:04 To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? I am relatively new to this list as well. I have been more of a "lurker" I must admit, but I like this question. I think that, in a difference of opinion, it will be a character like Hermione or Ron. We all know it won't be Harry, himself, but I really have to wonder if JKR would sugar coat the idea of evil/good by NOT killing off a character near and dear to our hearts. I personally LOVE Hermione. She is by far my favorite character and I would hate to see her killed off, but I have to wonder. Should it not be Hermione or Ron, I do believe it will be a character such as one of the Weasley twins, or possibly Neville. ----- Original Message ----- From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 3:46 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Hi! I'm new to this site - but the discussions I have found pottering about HPfor Grownups have been fascinating - I'm glad there are other people [out of their teens] who give so much thought to these works as I seem to! I have a topic to discuss - since the books are getting darker, and life more complicated, painful, turbulant for Harry & Co, I have a feeling that JKR will reflect this 'darkening' by, at some point, klling off a character more dear to us than Cedric. TThis would show that, when there's evil like Voldemort around, awful, harrowing things do happen ... but who will it be? I don't think she'd kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione - that'd just be too unbearable - but one of the Weasley twins? That would really be a symbol of how distructive to good people Voldemort is. Any thoughts? Ffion To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lj2d30 at gateway.net Fri Jan 19 23:22:02 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:22:02 -0000 Subject: Fanon "ruining" canon In-Reply-To: <948n8g+v8s4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ai6q+dda8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9783 I was a non-fanfic reader myself up until last Saturday. Now I am "siriusly" involved with Ebony's TIP and Penny & Carole's ASA. It starts out with "oh, I'll just check it out to see what all the fuss is about" and then, before you know it, You are sucked in and can't escape! Is there a 12-step program for this? I don't think the fanfic is sullying my canon (spelled it right this time! ) vision of the characters or possible events. I consider it more like a parallel universe, telling a "what might have been" in the Wizarding world. Trina (only 83% obsessed, but giving thought to writing fanfic herself) From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Jan 19 23:28:13 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (rhodhry at yahoo.no) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:28:13 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <94abli+to3e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94aiid+3bhl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9784 Some time ago I calculated that the number of wizards in a country would be roughly 20 times the number of Hogwarts-aged students. I based it on demographical data from Norway and Scotland. The spreadsheet was in the files-section, but seems to have been removed now. I believe (but am not certain) that I have it on a diskette somewhere. Should I repost it again, if I find it? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > I worked the number out, using the school population of my daughter's > school system as a guide. I assumed there were eight schools of six > years each, all with the same number of students. I adjusted for seven > years at Hogwarts instead of six at my daughters' school. If the > birthrates are exactly the same,and if Hogwarts is the only wizarding > school in the UK, then the wizarding population of the UK is under > 5000, without adjusting for muggle-borns like Hermione. > [snip] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 19 23:30:30 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:30:30 -0000 Subject: Harry's taste, was leather aversion, fanfic, etc./Bean In-Reply-To: <94a93j+9kl9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94aimm+l4bb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9785 "Harry well dressed is in LLBean gear I have to weigh in on the extremely important topic of Harry's attire to say that he does NOT lean toward LLBean. He is way too non-looks-conscious for that. Otherwise he'd have traded in his round black specs for tortoiseshell a long time ago and done something about that hair. I see him in much more downscale clothes, even once he's liberated from the Dudley hand-me-downs. Sweaters and jeans, yes, but not quite so going-out-boating-with-the-boys as LLBean." --I pictue Harry as being more the J Crew type. Jeans and sweaters over slightly wrinkled button down shirts. Wool and courdory jackets. (Perhaps this is because I dress much the same way, and I'd like to think Harry is taking a tip from me.) OTOH I picture Draco in Banana Republic clothes. (I was flipping through the catalogue and there were his leather pants/trousers.Yes that's certainly how I picture him.) "In fact the only problem I had with PoU is that Lori had him driving a Jeep- way too trendy for Harry, imho. I see him with a Mini, perhaps one of the last of the black-bumpered base models from the early-mid '90s (can any Brits tell me what that model was called?)" Harry in a jeep? Oh no that just doesn't fit in my mind. Harry belongs in a Mini. Whoever said that was right on! Scott From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 19 23:33:18 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:33:18 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <94aams+e2ja@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94airu+k40a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9786 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > Exactly. Perhaps magical society is the last bastion of feudalism, > of a sort? The values and mores seem to be different from those of > modern Western culture... I'd say they're more conservative. At least amongst the Slythery aristocratic types; on the other hand, the world of wizards is obviously also a world of creativity and eccentricity in some respects as well. I'm reminded a bit of the world of academia in an old, prestigious university, where a rigid social structure and a freedom to explore and create are in some ways combined. Traditions and formalities must be upheld in order to preserve the sense that members of the U are superior to the rest of society (the muggles); but on the other hand you've lots of restless minds wanting to break out of the mold. Also all the industries in the Wizarding world seem geared towards either supporting schools like Hogwarts or the activities of post-graduate magical research. The adult wizards we know of seem to be engaged either in studying magic for its own sake or running the institutions which govern how people are allowed to study and engage in magic. I wonder if there's anything in the magical world to correspond to mass industry. > > This ties in with the threads about "Number of Students in > Hogwarts". It's one of the more popular debates--stick around. > There are Large Scale Hogwarts advocates, while others lean towards a > smaller school. If Hogwarts can hold 1000+ students, I'm very > comfortable with it being the only wizarding school for the UK and > Ireland (which seems to be part of the same magical jurisdiction, > judging from Seamus Finnegan and the officiants of the Quidditch > World Cup). > > I lean more toward a small Hogwarts/small wizarding world myself. > Listmom Penny gives some great arguments for this. This was a pre- > fandom assumption of mine, if only because the interpersonal > relations within this milieu seem *so* intimate. Also, Hagrid does > make the statement "if we hadn't married Muggles we'd have died > out". That's a pretty good point, but if the population is too small, then I wonder what the point is of having banks like Gringotts; or how can Gilderoy Lockhart make a living as a professional celebrity? (Maybe he can't, which is why he took the DADA job?) On the other hand, I'm willing to bet that Hogwarts has the ability to expand and contract to accomodate fluctuations in the student body... [snip] Club member Rita > Winston (also known as Catlady) has some of the *best* theories about > magical societies throughout the world. Among other topics, she and > I have talked in the past about the effects that events like the > Spanish Inquisition, the conquest of the Americas, and the > transatlantic slave trade might have had on the development of > Hogwarts-like (what I mean is structured) educational systems... > she'd be a great person to talk to, and I really hope some of her > posts from the Yahoo! group makes it into the appropriate FAQ. I hope I run across these as I wander through the archives, then. I'd love to know what magic schools are like in China, say, or Central America or Africa. If you go to a magical school sequestered away in the Yucutan, do you end up worrying about quetzocoatl (sp?) instead of basilisks? > Hmm. The only poor family we've seen thus far are the Weasleys, and > they're not destitute. I'm still forming my opinions on this. In > most children's literature, groups such as the socioeconomic > underclass (aka "the dregs of society") seem to be marginalized out > of the picture. > > What do you read between the lines? Well, I don't think the Weasleys really qualify as poor. Malfoy probably has a point when he accuses them of having more children then they can afford (I hope for Mrs. Weasley's sake that magical midwifery is effective)...but it's not because Mr. Weasley isn't well-employed. Rather, the family values quantity of love over wealth; and I'm sure Harry compares them to the Dursleys and figures, "Heck, who can blame them?" > Most of the Hogwarts kids seem > to have come from solidly middle class backgrounds. Well, I work > with kids in a city where an estimated 50% of families live below the > poverty line... and I don't mean the Weasleys. Would such kids in > England get letters from Hogwarts, if they had magical ability? What > if they had no home for the letters to be sent to? What if their > parents could not afford the books/robes/wand? Are there funds > available? Or is this kid, magical though they might be, just out of > luck? I really don't know, and I suspect that JKR won't really address the issue...except in one instance, that of Tom Riddle himself. I think we can assume that as an orphan he really couldn't afford all the gear that attending Hogwarts requires, yet he managed to go anyway. Perhaps the wizarding world has funds to help poor wizardlings until they're old enough to make an income. Or perhaps poor kids with wizard talent get ignored unless that talent is great enough to be truly noticed or to threaten the Muggle world if it goes unguided (I think Riddle's talent would qualify). Maybe Riddle mugged muggles during summer vacations.... But wait..maybe my memory is failing...I seem to recall the in CoS Riddle is described as being an orphan, but in GoF he's described as murdering his wealthy parents....What have I missed? I don't have a book near me...help! > Again, great post! Thanks for giving me something else to think > about besides shipping. ;-) Shucks, ma'am, 't weren't nuthin'! > >(ps, what's your major/discipline, that you get to study > > history of rhetoric?) > > Thanks so much for the information--that was a good start and I may e- > mail you off list later if you don't mind. I'm in a combined > M.A./Ph.D program in English Composition and Rhetoric (with a minor > in Creative Writing)... so the class was required. In undergrad, the > original intention was not to become an academic, so I took the > secondary education track rather than the humanities one when earning > my English undergrad degree. Tsk, tsk, tsk... Cool. I'll do my best to answer any questions you want to throw my way. It might also help for you to brush up on Greek history from the Persian wars through Alex the Great...a lot of Greek writers refer to the events of this tumultous period (the way modern writers in the US are always referring to Vietnam and the world wars) and it helps to have an idea what they're talking about. Cheers! marvin From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Jan 19 23:49:41 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (rhodhry at yahoo.no) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:49:41 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population and Wizarding culture In-Reply-To: <949r14+v2jf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ajql+402a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9787 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: [snip] > Even a thousand kids is too small if you think of the whole of the > wizarding world in Britain. I would argue that demographic > information and guesses don't really suggest much about the number > of students at Hogwarts. Not all kids from the wizarding world GO to > Hogwarts, not NEARLY all. By far the most move into trades (e.g. Stan > Shunpike, the manager of Flourish and Blotts). It's not that they end > up uneducated. [snip] Add to that our assumption that we impart this education > to ALL kids, regardless, which they clearly don't do in the Wizarding > World, where you have to have a certain level of magical ability to > get into the school (e.g. Neville). > > So about Hogwarts: in the Wizarding culture, the kids with the most > inherent magic go to Hogwarts (they're the ones who the magic quill > chooses), while the rest, with lesser magic abilities, are educated > in other ways and apprentice into trades. But do we know that there is a divide between those with enough and those with not enough magical ability, rather than between those with and those without any magical ability? I think that if they have magical ability, there would be a need to teach them how to control it (to avoid blowing up obnoxious aunts, for instance, or setting loose snakes), and while they could be taught that in apprenticeships, I believe the ministry would want it done in an environment with quality-control (i.e. a school). This would particularly be true for people with magical abilities born into muggle-families. I also took the Neville incident to mean that they were delighted to find that he had magical ability at all, and thus qualified for Hogwarts - that is how I remember it, at least. Where is that Neville-incident mentioned, btw - I do not have the opportunity to check it right now, to control whether or not my opinion was correct. From plaeides at home.com Sat Jan 20 00:08:57 2001 From: plaeides at home.com (plaeides at home.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 00:08:57 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <94airu+k40a@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94akup+9645@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9788 > But wait..maybe my memory is failing...I seem to recall the in CoS > Riddle is described as being an orphan, but in GoF he's described as > murdering his wealthy parents....What have I missed? I don't have a > book near me...help! In "Goblet of Fire" it is explained how Tom Riddle's father was a muggle and his mother a witch. However his father abandoned Tom and his mother when he learned of her, er, talents. When she died and the father had the child forced into his care, he sent Tom off to an orphanage. He re-married and (I presume) had another son. Tom Riddle murdered his aristrocratic father, step mother and half brother in their home one night. If I recall, these were the first deaths of his rise to power as the Dark Lord. From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 20 00:16:30 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 00:16:30 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: <002f01c0825e$5bfb33a0$9604bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94alcu+nje9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9789 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: > I just think that death is an inevitable fact of life that we (children or not) have to deal with whether it is a likable person whom we have become attached to or not. It would be a devastation to have a lovable character killed off, don't get me wrong, but whether the character is likable or not, should not be the determining factor IMHO. As a child I read many children's books in which a character I have loved died. And, yes, I was devestated when that character died (Matthew, Walter, Judy, Bets...Any of these names ring a bell, Ebony? ), but I understood *why* their deaths were necessary. JKR has gameplan and whoever does die, she will have let us know what his/her/their sacrifices were and why it was necessary. I trust her to take us where we need to be. And, no matter exactly *who* it will be, I will be needing a box of tissues and major therapy from y'all to work through my grief. Trina From ender_w at msn.com Sat Jan 20 00:28:04 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:28:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) References: <94aams+e2ja@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000f01c08277$e14e5460$ec690f3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9790 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebony " To: Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) > > What do you read between the lines? Most of the Hogwarts kids seem > to have come from solidly middle class backgrounds. Well, I work > with kids in a city where an estimated 50% of families live below the > poverty line... and I don't mean the Weasleys. Would such kids in > England get letters from Hogwarts, if they had magical ability? What > if they had no home for the letters to be sent to? What if their > parents could not afford the books/robes/wand? Are there funds > available? Or is this kid, magical though they might be, just out of > luck? > That would make an interesting story line. A homeless child gets a letter from Hogwarts. Does Hogwarts have scholarships? And what about tuition? Obviously students have to find some way to afford uniforms and school supplies, but has any mention of tuition ever been made? Is Hogwarts a "public" school? And being a starving grad student myself, I wonder if the Ministry of Magic offers financial aid loans. Actually I wonder a lot of things about Harry's world...It keeps my mind busy, off the streets and out of trouble. oh, I'm Ender, by the way...new to the list. ender From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 19 23:58:51 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:58:51 -0000 Subject: Acronyms and shorthand terms - new list (Admin) Message-ID: <003201c08273$c639caa0$e43770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9791 Hi everyone! A special hello to the latest crop of new members. Please take some time to look through the club's Files, Polls, Databases and Links and be sure to read and absorb the occasional admin messages posted here by the Moderators (Welcome, Netiquette, Advisory etc.) A while back, someone asked about the acronyms and shorthand terms we use here. I have just posted an updated list to our Files section, including universal and HP-related terms. You can read that here: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/shorthand.htm If anyone is puzzled by something that *isn't* on the list, PLUK...! (Please let us know... er, I just made that one up). Neil Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ender_w at msn.com Sat Jan 20 00:46:42 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:46:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) References: <94akup+9645@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000901c0827a$7911bb00$ec690f3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9792 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) > > But wait..maybe my memory is failing...I seem to recall the in CoS > > Riddle is described as being an orphan, but in GoF he's described as > > murdering his wealthy parents....What have I missed? I don't have a > > book near me...help! > > In "Goblet of Fire" it is explained how Tom Riddle's father was a > muggle and his mother a witch. However his father abandoned Tom and > his mother when he learned of her, er, talents. When she died and > the father had the child forced into his care, he sent Tom off to an > orphanage. He re-married and (I presume) had another son. Tom > Riddle murdered his aristrocratic father, step mother and half > brother in their home one night. If I recall, these were the first > deaths of his rise to power as the Dark Lord. > Strange, I for some reason interpreted the opening events of GoF as Voldemort murdering his father and grandparents. Doesn't it refer to the son living with the couple as an adult son and therefore older than the then teenaged Voldemort? I could be wrong. I don't have my books with me. They're 700 miles away. ender From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 00:53:35 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 00:53:35 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <000f01c08277$e14e5460$ec690f3f@satellite> Message-ID: <94anif+gr4m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9793 I wrote: > > What do you read between the lines? Most of the Hogwarts kids seem to have come from solidly middle class backgrounds. Well, I work with kids in a city where an estimated 50% of families live below the poverty line... and I don't mean the Weasleys. Would such kids in England get letters from Hogwarts, if they had magical ability? What if they had no home for the letters to be sent to? What if their parents could not afford the books/robes/wand? Are there funds available? Or is this kid, magical though they might be, just out of luck? > > Ender responded: > That would make an interesting story line. A homeless child gets a letter from Hogwarts. Does Hogwarts have scholarships? And what about tuition? Obviously students have to find some way to afford uniforms and school supplies, but has any mention of tuition ever been made? Is Hogwarts a "public" school? And being a starving grad student myself, I wonder if the Ministry of Magic offers financial aid loans. Actually I wonder a lot of things about Harry's world...It keeps my mind busy, off the streets and out of trouble. > Welcome to the list, Ender--are you an Orson Scott Card fan? I've just begun to read his work after enjoying several creative writing resources of his, and everything I've read, I've enjoyed immensely. I've read Pastwatch and all of the Alvin Maker tales, but have yet to begin the Ender novels or the Homecoming series. I agree that the homeless child scenario is interesting to contemplate (ahem, fanfic writers!). I don't think Hogwarts is funded by tuition. My guess would be that it is very closely tied to the Ministry of Magic. In fact, one problem of contemplating post- Hogwarts scenarios is that most of the adults we've met so far seem to work (as Marvin has stated) for either Hogwarts or the MOM. I think this is because of the narrowness of Harry's lens as POV character--we don't see things he isn't interested in. Which makes me wonder what the books would be like if they were told from Hermione's POV. We'd get a lot less Quidditch action, but she'd probably note just about *everything* we have contemplated here on list. The books would be a lot more detailed, but a lot less fun... after all, isn't the joy of discovering new aspects of this world through Harry's eyes the reason we're all gathered here? --Ebony From CLee at aptv.org Sat Jan 20 01:00:51 2001 From: CLee at aptv.org (CLee at aptv.org) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:00:51 -0000 Subject: Stephen King Makes Potterism Message-ID: <94ao03+6m2k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9794 Hi all, very happy to have found this group--I felt so alone! Its like those adults confessing they like Frosted Flakes on the commericals: "I know their is a tiger on the box, but I love the taste" LOL Anywho, if you haven't had chance to read ON WRITING by Stephen King, he writes the following advice: "Don't use the passive voice! Don't be a muggle!" He also goes on to recommend the HP series for anyone looking to become a writer. Just thought that was kind of neat :) Since JKR and King are two of my favorite authors--watching my literary worlds collide like that! Chet From mschub at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 01:08:34 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:08:34 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <000f01c08277$e14e5460$ec690f3f@satellite> Message-ID: <94aoei+23rp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9795 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ender_w" wrote: Does Hogwarts have scholarships? And what about tuition? > Obviously students have to find some way to afford uniforms and school > supplies, but has any mention of tuition ever been made? Is Hogwarts a > "public" school? And being a starving grad student myself, I wonder if the > Ministry of Magic offers financial aid loans. I don't think there's ever been anything mentioned about any kind of tuition, so that brings up another good question: What kind of taxes does the Ministry have? I had never thought about that, but to support such a large bureacracy, you'd think they'd have to have a fairly effective tax system. -Mike From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 01:16:23 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:16:23 -0000 Subject: Hermione's future (was Obsession Quiz and Shipping personality test) In-Reply-To: <00d501c082cc$c3b60880$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <94aot7+de6u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9796 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > Ebony said, > > > I actually *wrote* an R/H wedding scene... never mind the fact > > that I gritted my teeth all the way through typing it up... > > Not to mention that in said bride's girdle "there was not a violet- which stands for faithfulness-in sight." Um, Mike? Maybe she just hates them. The flowers she did choose could have been her favorites. Knowing her, she probably thought the tradition was silly and just picked whatever struck her fancy at the time. >> Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray, who grew up in Sicily, where real men kept their women locked up, barefoot and pregnant, and who is rather suspicious of Ebony's Hermione.) No wonder! ;-) I'm sorry, but I don't think "locked up, barefoot and pregnant" could ever be used all at once to describe our Miss Granger in any plausible future scenario. She'd probably punish the man who even thought about trying it by zapping him with some obscure curse, the effects of which probably couldn't be described in polite company. Unless, of course, there is something in her character that would cause her to pull a post-canonical Anne on readers (Trina and Barbara know what I'm talking about). That would really cause my poor teeth to be ground to powder. It was one thing for a girl genius to throw in the towel at the turn of the last century... she had few career choices. It's quite another for the smartest witch of her generation to sit at home knitting and baking cookies. Anyone with me? Disagree? I'd love to hear your thoughts. --Ebony (who knows Penny is grinding *her* teeth at the thought of yet another thread to add to the Hermione FAQ ;-)) From ender_w at msn.com Sat Jan 20 01:22:22 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:22:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) References: <94anif+gr4m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000d01c0827f$71919e40$ec690f3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9797 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebony " To: Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) > > > > Welcome to the list, Ender--are you an Orson Scott Card fan? I've > just begun to read his work after enjoying several creative writing > resources of his, and everything I've read, I've enjoyed immensely. > I've read Pastwatch and all of the Alvin Maker tales, but have yet to > begin the Ender novels or the Homecoming series. Actually, the Ender series is the only work of Card's thaat i have read. Ender is my "other" favorite fictional character. > > I agree that the homeless child scenario is interesting to > contemplate (ahem, fanfic writers!). I don't think Hogwarts is > funded by tuition. My guess would be that it is very closely tied to > the Ministry of Magic. In fact, one problem of contemplating post- > Hogwarts scenarios is that most of the adults we've met so far seem > to work (as Marvin has stated) for either Hogwarts or the MOM. I > think this is because of the narrowness of Harry's lens as POV > character--we don't see things he isn't interested in. I've wondered that myself. There must be wizards who aren't in politics or education...or Hogsmeade. Where are they? And how do a large nummber of them end up married to Muggles? From what we've seen so far, there isn't a tremendous amount of mixing between the adult wizarding world and the adult muggle world as evidenced by not only the secrecy surrounding wizard society, but also the inncredible lack of knowledge of muggle culture exhibited by the majority of wizards(Ron not knowing how to use a phone, Mrs. Weasley not understanding the use of postage stamps, etc.)...so how do they meet and form relationships? ender From mschub at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 01:27:18 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:27:18 -0000 Subject: Couple of silly detail-questions... Message-ID: <94aphm+bh07@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9798 First, in CoS, Chap. 7, Harry is feeling guilty about missing the last game of the season in SS/PS, resulting in Gryffindor's "worst defeat in three hundred years." Now, I had always assumed that the Seeker was prohibited from touching the Quaffle. Assuming this is true, there's no reason why it should have been a particularly devastating defeat. That is, Gryffindor's Chasers and Keeper have always been more than able to keep up with the other teams, point-scoring-wise. So there's no reason that it should have been a particularly bad defeat, they should have just lost by around 150. (Assuming, of course, that the Seeker isn't allowed to become a temporary Chaser. If he/she is, then it's a whole new ballgame, with a power play type of situation.) Second... When Harry first hears the voices, in Lockhart's office, he is completely confused as to what kind of entity could have DONE such a thing as been invisible and made noises... When he tells Ron, Ron has the same response, saying "But I don't get it - even someone invisible would've had to open the door." How come neither one of them automatically suspects a ghost? We have ample experience with ghosts being invisible and speaking, so why not just assume that it was one of them? Had another one, of course, but I've forgotten it. Gotta start writing this stuff down... -Mike From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jan 20 01:51:25 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 01:51:25 -0000 Subject: HP4GP files rearrangements In-Reply-To: <000001c08186$c1a09020$5ef03ccc@krass> Message-ID: <94aqut+aonf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9799 The drawings by Dogspoon and Lisa Rourke have been reposted on the graphics group. Click here to see them: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownUps-Graphics/FanArt/ Sorry that we had to move them, but new messages were bouncing because we had exceeded our storage quota. -Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Lisa Rourke" wrote: > Hi. A while back someone posted a notice about rearranging and tidying up > the files section of HP4GU. I had posted some drawings and was going to > move them but got side tracked and forgot about it. When I went to see if > they were still there or had been moved to a different folder (I thought > maybe there would be a fanfiction/fanart folder), I couldn't find them > anywhere. I checked pretty much all the existing folders but to no avail. > Even the drawings by Dogspoon that were posted there before mine seemed to > have disappeared. Anybody know what happened to them? Gee...I didn't > think they were too bad :-) Should I repost or just forget it? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DAOSASP at aol.com Sat Jan 20 01:59:13 2001 From: DAOSASP at aol.com (DAOSASP at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:59:13 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9800 Hi, I also have been lurking here for a little while, and found this question to be worth throwing my two cents in. From reading these books I have come to the conclusion that Voldemort is not a very nice person, and not a very forgiving person. This leads me to believe that one of the characters to be killed off will be Prof. Snape. While we may not feel the affection toward Snape that we do Ron, Hermione, Hagrid or the Weasley twins, I at least have love to hate him. Besides with him out of the picture it would present Voldemort with an opportunity to get someone into Hogwarts where it may hurt the most, in charge of the Slytherin house. For instance L. Malfoy. Sean From amy at pressroom.com Sat Jan 20 02:04:54 2001 From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:04:54 -0500 Subject: OT Amys on the list References: Message-ID: <021a01c08285$62186100$0200a8c0@pressroom.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9801 Simon writes: > Amy Z (have we been on a membership drive aimed solely at people named Amy? > We seem to have lots of people around with that name know - causing me total > confusion (this is not a problem - it has just amused me how some names seem > a lot more represented around here than others)) So far 3 Amys that I know of, I think. Myself, Amy Z and Amy Johnston. What would have been it more confusing if I wasn't married and had my maiden name of Amy Johnson! Amy G From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 02:07:15 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 02:07:15 -0000 Subject: Fanon "ruining" canon (detailed) In-Reply-To: <94ai6q+dda8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94arsj+4kim@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9802 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > I don't think the fanfic is sullying my canon (spelled it right this time! ) vision of the characters or possible events. I consider it more like a parallel universe, telling a "what might have been" in the Wizarding world. *Exactly*, Trina. Fanfic does the same thing that our posts here do. The "what ifs" are fun to contemplate. When you read a fanfic that actually plays out something that you'd always wondered about, and does it well, it's like a shock of lightening. I read PoU chapters 1-12 in three hours last July. Devoured is more like it... it provided possible answers to the three nagging sensations that the fourth book left me with. Those were: 1) "Ron's safe for now, but I'm still worried about him for some reason. Why do I get that feeling?" 2) "I see R/H forming sometime in the future, but *why* won't JKR write H/H? Deep down I'd really like that better. I know there's no arguing with the author, but it just seems *right*." 3) "There's something more to Harry than meets the eye. It goes beyond Lily's sacrifice, beyond Prioro Incantatem, beyond Dumbledore's protection. What is *up* with this kid?" In one fell swoop, Lori answered all of my questions. And the amazing thing is--the fic was mostly written before GoF. Coming into after reading Book 4, nothing at all jarred or seemed to contradict canon. As for fanon ruining canon, I'm not sure if "ruin" is the word I'd use. If your views are solidly formed by canon, then no fanfic can change them. Also, most of the better fanfics like those on the PoU list are quite tangential to canonical storylines. They might happen, but then again they might not. They answer questions that JKR may never get around to explaining. The following fanfics addressed questions that have always intrigued me, and are among my favorites: -Can the much-maligned Draco Malfoy be redeemed? (Cassie, DD/DS) -Will the truth about Sirius' innocence ever be known? (Penny and Carole, ASA) -Who and what *is* Harry Potter? (Lori, PoU and sequels) -What is post-Hogwarts wizarding education like? (John, SoT) -What was going through Hermione's head while dating Viktor Krum? (Samantha, *Masquerade*) -George Lucas and JKR's similarities have been noted--what would Harry, Ron, and Hermione have to say about the Star Wars saga? (B. Bennett, *A Certain Point of View*) -Will romantic tensions upset the perfect balance of the Trio? If so, how? (parker, *Rumours*) -Why did Peter Pettigrew betray the Marauders? (Hyphen, *Rat's Tale*) -If the Harry Potter books were not fiction, how would this affect our world? (Dadgrid, *The Granger Interview* and *The Letter*) I read fanfic for the same reason that I read these lists. The Harry Potter novels left a million threads hanging and a million questions in my mind. The best fanfics are not *all* about giggling over romantic pairings. (That's just the icing on the cake. ;-)) The best fanfics reconcile unresolved canonical issues. In fanfic, a dead character like Lily can rise from the grave and a live character can die or mysteriously disappear. The reader can get inside the heads of little-known Weasleys and Slytherin Seekers, walk around, and stay a bit if he or she likes. Very good posts and essays do this as well. They're interesting. But IMNSHO, they're not nearly as fun to ride. I'm very passionate about essay writing (such as posts here) and creative writing being different means to the same end. Others disagree... perhaps that's where the line between pro-fic and anti- fic fans can be drawn. Not that it's a battle line. Just a distinct difference in preferences. > Trina (only 83% obsessed, but giving thought to writing fanfic > herself) How'd you get an 83% and you haven't written fanfic yet? :::backs away from Trina warily::: Here's my advice: as Nike says, "just do it". --Ebony From allyson at ptd.net Sat Jan 20 02:26:13 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:26:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? References: Message-ID: <004101c08288$5dd6df60$4ea6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9803 I, too, love to hate Snape, although I don't really hate him. There is something more about him that I think when the story is told will make people go "Ahhhh" but then again, my mom always calls me the "Champion of the Underdog"! ----- Original Message ----- From: DAOSASP at aol.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Hi, I also have been lurking here for a little while, and found this question to be worth throwing my two cents in. From reading these books I have come to the conclusion that Voldemort is not a very nice person, and not a very forgiving person. This leads me to believe that one of the characters to be killed off will be Prof. Snape. While we may not feel the affection toward Snape that we do Ron, Hermione, Hagrid or the Weasley twins, I at least have love to hate him. Besides with him out of the picture it would present Voldemort with an opportunity to get someone into Hogwarts where it may hurt the most, in charge of the Slytherin house. For instance L. Malfoy. Sean To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From allyson at ptd.net Sat Jan 20 02:31:34 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:31:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? References: <004101c08288$5dd6df60$4ea6bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <005701c08289$1c823680$4ea6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9804 Just thought of something else, too..... We had this discussion in my class today at school. We are at Chapter 18 in CoS and as we muddled through Chapter 17 (the Heir of Slytherin) we were talking about *WHY* we thought Voldemort was such an unloving, uncaring person. I was making the argument about him being 'abandoned' by his muggle father before he was born and one of my students literally yells at me saying "Don't be making excuses for him. Lord Voldemort is just plain evil, Allyson. He needs no excuses for that." I just sat there sort of stunned. Made me glad I had instilled this type of thinking in these kids, but I still thought, WOW! ----- Original Message ----- From: Allyson To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? I, too, love to hate Snape, although I don't really hate him. There is something more about him that I think when the story is told will make people go "Ahhhh" but then again, my mom always calls me the "Champion of the Underdog"! ----- Original Message ----- From: DAOSASP at aol.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Hi, I also have been lurking here for a little while, and found this question to be worth throwing my two cents in. From reading these books I have come to the conclusion that Voldemort is not a very nice person, and not a very forgiving person. This leads me to believe that one of the characters to be killed off will be Prof. Snape. While we may not feel the affection toward Snape that we do Ron, Hermione, Hagrid or the Weasley twins, I at least have love to hate him. Besides with him out of the picture it would present Voldemort with an opportunity to get someone into Hogwarts where it may hurt the most, in charge of the Slytherin house. For instance L. Malfoy. Sean To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From swussian at graffiti.net Sat Jan 20 02:26:13 2001 From: swussian at graffiti.net (Tanja Suhinina) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:26:13 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fanon "ruining" canon (detailed) Message-ID: <20010120022614.14095.qmail@graffiti.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9805 > -George Lucas and JKR's similarities have been noted--what would > Harry, Ron, and Hermione have to say about the Star Wars saga? (B. > Bennett, *A Certain Point of View*) > Hi! I'm totally new to this egroup. My name is Tanja *feels uncomfortable while everyone says "Hi Tanja"* I saw that George Lucas/ JKR thing and remembered that weird essay I wrote a long time ago (4 month?:) it's on my site, but since I don't know whether links are allowed or not I'll copy-and-paste it into the message. ********************************** The Harry Potter books are supposed to be inventive, escapistic, filled with clichs, ground breaking, sexist and generation-defining. Certainly, but wait a minute, haven't we heard it before? Have not a certain movie trilogy got rather similar response? Star Wars was just as Harry Potter an imidiate success with the audience, but many critics predicted it's death. The time has proved them wrong. Of course, Harry Potter has not even existed for five years, so it is impossible to compare, but as far as we can judge Harry Potter might easily turn out to be the next Star Wars. But do the similarities stop on the success? Well, of course, both of them happen in a world different from ours, that is based on old faith, philosophy and mythology. Both have overnatural powers involved (The Force in SW and Magic in HP). In both there is a battle between good and evil. But let's look closer at the stories and characters! Luke Skywalker, the hero of the SW saga, lives a quiet life with his aunt and uncle (1). When he asks about his father, the aswer he gets is that his father was a pilot, who presumably died in a spaceship-crash. Similary, when Harry asks about his parents, the Dursleys answer that they were unemployed and died in a car crash (2). Both Luke's and Harry's foster families are disapproving of their respective parents' living and do not want the children to follow in their footsteps, but can not miss the fact that both boys are too much like their respective fathers(3). Taking their first step into a larger world At a certain point of their life something happens- they both get messages that open an entirely new world. Luke gets R2-D2's hologram, Harry- letters from no one (4). As a result of the message Luke finds Obi-Wan Kenobi, Harry is found by Hagrid (5). Now, are there any similarities between Hagrid and Obi-Wan? Both knew the boys' parents and were close friends with them. But there is another interesting detail- Hagrid was the one who brought baby Harry to the Dursleys, while Obi-Wan brought Luke to Owen and Beru (6). After the meeting there are two similar things happen, though in different order. Obi-Wan gives Luke a lightsaber. "Your fathers lightsaber" says Obi-Wan. Luke doesn't know it now, but his father is Darth Vader, his enemy. Harry gets a wand and when the wand has chosen him Mr Ollivander mutters "It so happens that the phoenix whose tail feather is in your wand, gave another feather- just one other. It is very curious indeed that you should be destinied for this wand when it's brother- why, when it's brother gave you that scar" (7). Now, both Luke and Obi-Wan, and Harry and Hagrid go to a big city. What place is the first they visit? "For a famous place, it was very dark and shabby", a description of the Leaky Cauldron fits the Star Wars Cantina well. The reason why old guide-figures in children's books and films are so obsessed with bars is unclear, but somehow they seem to find it amusing to bring young heroes there (8). Here we come to the point when the hero meets more characters. What do we have at the hero's right hand? A sidekick with a pet (9). And if that wasn't enough, Ron and Harry drive to their school in an old, enchanted Ford Anglia that belongs to Ron's family. Compare to the antique, but specially modificated by Han, Millenium Falcon (10). Our heroes meet the girl in the story under similar circumstances- when saving her life (Harry and Ron have known Hermione since before, but that was after the troll attack the trio built) (11). Both girls are bossy leader characters, rules- loving, but willing to break the laws for the sake of justice(12). Now we can see that the three main characters of SW and those of HP are more or less the same. We also know that Ron and Hermione will become a couple before the school is over, just like Han and Leia (13). Another interesting coincidence (?) is that Luke's and Leia's names both begin with an "L", while Harry's and Hermione's names begin with a "H" (14). Back to the hero. Now thay have found their place (the Rebel Alliance and Hogwarts). They have to prove themselves and both reveal natural talents for flying. (15). Even in appereance they have their similarities. Glasses, scar, green eyes and jet-black hair ain't fooling nobody. Luke's haircut is an old joke among the fans, and it is widely known that Harry's hair is very scruffy (16). Now, there is another HP character who has the role of Obi-Wan and that is (of course) Albus Dumbledore. Both of them are old, wise and... crazy. "He's a crazy old hermit" says uncle Owen, "I always said he was off his rocker" says Ron, impressed at how mad his hero is (17). But all you Hagrid-lovers, do not get upset about him missing parts of the role, he has another one. Both in SW and HP there is a large, not-entirely-human, strong, good- natured and terribly hairy and scruffy character who speaks funny. Of course I'm speaking about Chewbacca the Wookiee and Hagrid the half-giant (18). There are other characters that are remarkably alike each-other in SW and HP, for instance Professor McGonagall resembles of the female leader Mon Mothma (19), Dudley is fat and mean, which reminds of a certain Jabba the Hutt (20), while the Weasley twins are added for the comic relief, just like the droid duo, C-3PO and R2-D2 (21). Dementor's cloaks resemble Emperor's and Vader's outfits just too much (22) The darkest hour Let's step back and look at the books and films at a bigger scale. As we know, the Original Trilogy of SW consists of three films (which is rather obvious, I suppose), where the first one is the most simple, sweet light-adventure, the second is deep, dark and serious, and the third film is the most commercial, most mainstream of them all. We still do not have a possibility to count the last three books in, but we have got more than a half, so we can try to analyse the existing ones. "A New Hope" and "the Philosopher's Stone" are, without doubt, the lightest and most childish of the films or books. But what is the eqivalent of "The Empire Strikes Back", is it book two ("the Chamber of Secrets") or the book in the middle ("the Goblet of Fire")? Personnaly, I think it is more correct to compare "Empire" to "Goblet", but I must admit that "Chamber" is more dark than both "Philosopher's Stone" and "Prizoner of Azkaban". Let's take a look at Dobby, who appears both in "Chamber" and "Goblet" (the suspected "Empire"s). He is a gnome-like character with bad grammar, who comes to our hero with good advise (23). Can it just be a coincidence? Or the fact that a gambling and not very honest person with high political position appears in both "Empire" (Lando Calrissian) and "Goblet" (Ludo Bagman) (24) ? In "Chamber" Harry breaks his arm and gets all the bones removed. Cut-off arms and hands is a trademark of SW, and as we all remember, Luke got his hand cut off in "Empire" (25). Also, in "Empire" Luke's life depends on whether he will be able to get his lightsaber in his hand to fight a snow monster, in "Goblet" Harry has to learn the Summoning Charm to get his Firebolt to fight a dragon (26) ********************* Ok, I know that half of this stuff can be found in any heroic tale in any corner of the world, but I still think it's a lot of fun -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 20 01:42:09 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:42:09 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Wizarding aristocracy (rather lon Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9806 Welcome, Ender. Scott Card fan, huh? -------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 20 01:42:15 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:42:15 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9807 I remember reading, not too long ago, a horror series (only 2 books that I can't for the life of me remember the titles of) where the protagonists were all children. And one of the main protagonists was killed! I had NEVER encountered such an occurrence before. I remember thining at the time, "He broke the rules! You don't have the hero die in such an awful manner! The author broke the rules!" I was so upset and put the book down for about 2 weeks before I could bring myself to pick it up again. That's how much it unnerved me. Anyway (and here I'm about to commit blasphemy), I've found that Jo breaks the rules very easily, but within the context of the story. And that's why I believe that Harry will die, probably in book 7. Jeralyn, the Voicelady (who quickly clapped her hands over her ears in order to shut out the shrieks of dismay and disapproval.) -------------------------------------------------------------- --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: As a child I read many children's books in which a character I have loved died. And, yes, I was devestated when that character died (Matthew, Walter, Judy, Bets...Any of these names ring a bell, Ebony? ), but I understood *why* their deaths were necessary. JKR has gameplan and whoever does die, she will have let us know what his/her/their sacrifices were and why it was necessary. I trust her to take us where we need to be. And, no matter exactly *who* it will be, I will be needing a box of tissues and major therapy from y'all to work through my grief. From allyson at ptd.net Sat Jan 20 02:53:32 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:53:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? References: Message-ID: <007d01c0828c$2e0fe5c0$4ea6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9808 Really? You really think Harry will die in Book 7? I just don't know if Jo could bring herself to kill off Harry. I'd be shocked...not surprised, at that occurrence. Sheesh, now I will be doing some heavy thinking tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: voicelady To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 8:42 PM Subject: Re:[HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? I remember reading, not too long ago, a horror series (only 2 books that I can't for the life of me remember the titles of) where the protagonists were all children. And one of the main protagonists was killed! I had NEVER encountered such an occurrence before. I remember thining at the time, "He broke the rules! You don't have the hero die in such an awful manner! The author broke the rules!" I was so upset and put the book down for about 2 weeks before I could bring myself to pick it up again. That's how much it unnerved me. Anyway (and here I'm about to commit blasphemy), I've found that Jo breaks the rules very easily, but within the context of the story. And that's why I believe that Harry will die, probably in book 7. Jeralyn, the Voicelady (who quickly clapped her hands over her ears in order to shut out the shrieks of dismay and disapproval.) -------------------------------------------------------------- --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: As a child I read many children's books in which a character I have loved died. And, yes, I was devestated when that character died (Matthew, Walter, Judy, Bets...Any of these names ring a bell, Ebony? ), but I understood *why* their deaths were necessary. JKR has gameplan and whoever does die, she will have let us know what his/her/their sacrifices were and why it was necessary. I trust her to take us where we need to be. And, no matter exactly *who* it will be, I will be needing a box of tissues and major therapy from y'all to work through my grief. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 02:49:20 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:49:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar References: <94abli+to3e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A68FCB0.C6C007A9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9809 Jim Ferer wrote: > I worked the number out, using the school population of my daughter's > school system as a guide. I assumed there were eight schools of six > years each, all with the same number of students. I adjusted for seven > years at Hogwarts instead of six at my daughters' school. If the > birthrates are exactly the same,and if Hogwarts is the only wizarding > school in the UK, then the wizarding population of the UK is under > 5000, without adjusting for muggle-borns like Hermione. Only if every single wizarding child goes to Hogwarts. I don't think we should assume this. I think there are plenty of magical folk, like Stan and Ernie of the Knight Bus, who live and work in the wizarding world and never went to Hogwarts. So I think your population estimate can be expanded a bit. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 02:55:56 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 20:55:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP - The Movie O.S.T References: <94afui+itjq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A68FE3B.C1A3640A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9810 Dai Evans wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > Don't hope for much. I don't like John Williams doing the score > > either; too grandiose, too comic-book for me and this material > > Comic book? This is the same guy who did the soundtracks for Saving > Private Ryan and Schindlers List (particularly heartfelt violin solo > lead on that one). What comic books do you read? Yeah, but he's also the one who's stolen just about every melody from "The Planets" at one time or another (example off the top of my head: from The Lord of the Rings [the old one], the tune to "Mithrandir" is Jupiter [or one of those largish planets] almost note for note), as well as some other classical works. I wouldn't mind if he gave credit. At one time my dad, who was irritated by this tendency of John Williams', made a list of the liftings, but I've no idea what became of it. But I haven't really kept track lately (babies, no movies anymore), so perhaps he's writing his own melodies by now. --Amanda From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 02:58:01 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 02:58:01 -0000 Subject: R/H SW II Theory (was Fanon "ruining" canon (detailed)) In-Reply-To: <20010120022614.14095.qmail@graffiti.net> Message-ID: <94aurp+e0q0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9811 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Tanja Suhinina" wrote: > > -George Lucas and JKR's similarities have been noted--what would > > Harry, Ron, and Hermione have to say about the Star Wars saga? (B. > > Bennett, *A Certain Point of View*) > > > Hi! I'm totally new to this egroup. My name is Tanja *feels uncomfortable while everyone says "Hi Tanja"* I saw that George Lucas/ JKR thing and remembered that weird essay I wrote a long time ago (4 month?:) it's on my site, but since I don't know whether links are allowed or not I'll copy-and-paste it into the message. > Hi, Tanja! That was a fantastic first post... R/H shippers, did you cut and paste that essay? I hereby dub this the "R/H Star Wars Parallel Theory". You've definitely written the definitive post for it, Tanja, and B Bennett has written the definitive fic. Once again, I'm impressed. I was born the year A New Hope was released, and Darth Vader was the monster in my childhood nightmares. I loved R2D2 and Yoda the best. Although I haven't seen the original trilogy since I was a little kid, playing Star Wars was amongst my fondest memories. But as I told Flourish over at the Fanfiction list, if Hermione turns out to be Harry's sister, and Voldemort is a direct ancestor of Our Hero... I quit. Of course, I've come to expect much more originality than that from Jo. So while the theory is impressive, I'd say the jury is still out. --Ebony AKA AngieJ "Still going! Nothing outlasts those obsessive and "loud" H/Hers! They keep going... and going... and going..." From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jan 20 03:02:16 2001 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:02:16 -0000 Subject: Hermione the housewife? References: <94aot7+de6u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003401c0828d$6600c520$0171883e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 9812 From: Ebony I'm sorry, but I don't think "locked up, barefoot and pregnant" could ever be used all at once to describe our Miss Granger in any plausible future scenario. She'd probably punish the man who even thought about trying it by zapping him with some obscure curse, the effects of which probably couldn't be described in polite company. ROTFL. It was one thing for a girl genius to throw in the towel at the turn of the last century... she had few career choices. It's quite another for the smartest witch of her generation to sit at home knitting and baking cookies. Playing devil's advocate here I think the operative word you used is choices. What about the theory that the purpose of education is to give you choices, not take them away. Being the smartest witch of her generation gives Hermione the oppportunity to choose what she wants to do, and those choices may change depending on the life stage she is at. What if at some point Hermione wants to sit at home and bake cookies? Would that be so awful? Personally I can't see that she would want to, but that's not the issue. I deplore those who tell women they are wasting their education (usually its their degree) staying at home. If they use it to ensure their children have a bteeter start in life. The point is debatable because I don't know whether it makes a difference one way or the other. I'm the product of two working parents (In fact my Mum's an early years teacher and she sent me age 3 to one nursery while she taught other peoples 3 year olds) and I don't think I'm dreadfully damaged by the experience. I have had six/ seven years of post compulsory education this means I should be able to work in my chosen profession or change direction but who is to say that ten years down the line I won't want to take a break and stay home with any children I may produce. It could be argued that this is a waste of education and intelligence but are either ever truly wasted? There are many more uses for education than the world of work. This is probably rather garbled after all it is 3am on this side of the pond but basically my point is being the smartest witch is giving Hermione more choices but it shouldn't take away her right to make the choice that she wants. Heather, who quite frankly can't see herself giving up working but who knows. "...Words strain, crack and sometimes break, under the burden, under the tension, slip, slide, perish, decay with imprecision, will not stay in place, will not stay still. Eliot, 1944. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 03:05:35 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:05:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? References: Message-ID: <3A69007F.C86FEDE3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9813 DAOSASP at aol.com wrote: > Hi, I also have been lurking here for a little while, and found this > question to be worth throwing my two cents in. From reading these books I > have come to the conclusion that Voldemort is not a very nice person, and not > a very forgiving person. This leads me to believe that one of the characters > to be killed off will be Prof. Snape. This makes a good bit of sense to me. Whatever caused his bitterness, he does not seem to be living "towards" anything, if you know what I mean. He's not expecting anything to change. And JKR has said that Snape will redeem himself in some interview or other, and while this has been interpreted as a possible romance, I see a possible noble death. Alas. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 03:07:34 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:07:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? References: <004101c08288$5dd6df60$4ea6bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <3A6900F6.C55D2E1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9814 Allyson wrote: > I, too, love to hate Snape, although I don't really hate him. There is something more about him that I think when the story is told will make people go "Ahhhh" but then again, my mom always calls me the "Champion of the Underdog"! By the way, O Ye Crop of New Folks, there's a spinoff egroup called Snapefans exclusively for the plumbing of the depths of our most complex, intriguing character. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 03:10:13 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:10:13 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hogwarts population and Wizarding culture References: <949r14+v2jf@eGroups.com> <00c701c082be$d71441c0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <3A690194.770E4AEC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9815 Aberforth's Goat wrote: > Do you know of any evidence for a wizard who isn't a squib but didn't go to > Hogwarts? Not so far, but again there's that caveat that this is all from Harry's perspective, and he came into the wizarding world cold, same as we do, and doesn't always ask the questions or seek the information we'd want him to. He keeps doing his *homework,* jeez, what's the world coming to... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 03:13:26 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:13:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort's family References: <94akup+9645@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A690256.306A8468@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9816 plaeides at home.com wrote: > > But wait..maybe my memory is failing...I seem to recall the in CoS > > Riddle is described as being an orphan, but in GoF he's described as > > murdering his wealthy parents....What have I missed? I don't have a > > book near me...help! > > In "Goblet of Fire" it is explained how Tom Riddle's father was a > muggle and his mother a witch. However his father abandoned Tom and > his mother when he learned of her, er, talents. When she died and > the father had the child forced into his care, he sent Tom off to an > orphanage. He re-married and (I presume) had another son. Tom > Riddle murdered his aristrocratic father, step mother and half > brother in their home one night. Um, where did you get the stepmother and brother? I've never seen that interpretation. Steve, O Keeper of the Trivia, is it ever explicitly stated that it was Voldemort's father and grandparents that died, or could it be a stepfamily? That would require major revisions of the timelines, yes? --Amanda From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 03:09:50 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:09:50 -0600 Subject: Harry's Special Powers References: <20010117222944.21933.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> <01f101c080fe$44c3b920$e446d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A69017E.22F21CFF@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9817 Hi -- Carole Estes wrote: > Furthermore I wanted to add that just because it seems that Harry has some > extraordinary powers that are not common to the general wizarding population, > it in no way diminishes his humanity and what he chooses to do with those > powers. The fact that he is lauded as special, yet really just wants to be a > normal guy and not cash in on his "fame" attests to his strength of character. > > ... If it turns out that JKR gives Harry has special abilities beyond > what > Lily provided by her sacrifice, the story still hinges on the choices Harry > makes with his talents, and that is something we can all relate to whether the > special talents are magical or mere mortal stuff like talent with numbers, or > writing, or drawing, or law, or whatever. I just had to say that I think this is so well-stated. JKR is clearly making a statement that people don't have to become a particular type of person because of the circumstances of their birth. But, it doesn't preclude her from endowing Harry with some special powers that he may or may not choose to use (or he may need to choose what *ends* to employ those special powers for or against). His character formation still rests largely on the individual choices/decisions he'll make along the road of life, whether or not he has some special power that allowed him to defeat Lord V as an infant (and may help him defeat or destroy Lord V in a more permanent way later). I definitely agree with Lori and others that there must be more to infant Harry's defeat of Lord V than just Lily's sacrifice & layer of protection. He and his Death Eaters waged a long & seemingly costly war against both the wizarding & muggle populations. It hardly seems likely to me that not one single person other than Lily Potter tried to save or died to save another human being during that war. I think there's definitely something special about Harry. I don't think we'll know it all though until after Book 7. I'd be very interested to hear Peg's thoughts on this topic if she sees this message. Penny From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 03:21:30 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:21:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione the housewife? References: <94aot7+de6u@eGroups.com> <003401c0828d$6600c520$0171883e@co.uk> Message-ID: <3A69043A.CA96B7A7@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9818 Heather Edmonds wrote: > Heather, who quite frankly can't see herself giving up working but who knows. *ahem.* While I agree with your posting about it being perfectly acceptable to stay home and knit and bake should one so *choose,* I must point out with some emphasis at this juncture that, as a mother of three children under six, I have in no way, shape, or form given up working. I work like a galley slave. I'm considering escaping to the grownup world of work days that end and whole stretches of hours at a time where I don't have to take anyone to the potty! But I must say that "not working" is every bit as challenging, time-consuming, and fulfilling as most paying careers. Rethink your mental boxes, youngling. --Amanda From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 03:26:14 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:26:14 -0000 Subject: Hermione the housewife? In-Reply-To: <003401c0828d$6600c520$0171883e@co.uk> Message-ID: <94b0gm+tl6r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9819 I'm quite prolific tonight... --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Heather Edmonds" wrote: > Playing devil's advocate here I think the operative word you used is choices. What about the theory that the purpose of education is to give you choices, not take them away. Being the smartest witch of her generation gives Hermione the oppportunity to choose what she wants to do, and those choices may change depending on the life stage she is at. You know, Heather, I started to say this but I restrained myself. I wanted to start a thread. We talked about this a little in last week's chat but did not elaborate. I wanted to do so here on list. > What if at some point Hermione wants to sit at home and bake cookies? Would that be so awful? Personally I can't see that she would want to, but that's not the issue. I deplore those who tell women they are wasting their education (usually its their degree) staying at home. I agree with you. Sometime in the future, I see myself staying at home with my children. I've even thought about homeschooling, and have talked about this possibility with my S.O. (significant other). Both of us were raised by mothers who stayed at home, and we think that it was extremely valuable. It's probably too early to tell, but do you think this is what Hermione would want in the future? Hermione's brains aren't the only aspect of her character that would be a factor here. Consider her role models. Her own mother is a professional. Perhaps Dr. Granger stayed home with Hermione when she was a young child, but the two things we know for certain about the Grangers is that they're Muggles and they're dentists. One of her two best friends' mom is a homemaker. And we can ascertain from her acquisition of the Time- Turner in PoA that McGonagall has also become a role model. So which of the three would serve as a role model for Hermione? Dr. Granger? Molly? Minerva? Some combination of the three women? When I first joined the list, I made the observation that witches may have to make a choice that modern women do not. I'm wondering if in this fictional society, women are either homemakers *or* career professionals. That seems to be the pattern. Of course, we know comparatively little about the girls and women in the canon... but to a feminist, this silence speaks volumes. The very fact that these unknown quantities exist is indicative of an unequal balance in the wizarding world. This is not a question of PoV--even selectively seeing Harry could not fail to notice details that we could easily interpret as indications of female empowerment. Coed sports are the only thing I can think of. Can anyone think of others? If the House-Elf Liberation Front was not a girlish phase Hermione was going through, then she's revealed herself to be a character who is passionate about injustice. Would this inequity within her own world escape her notice? If this fork exists, with paths alternately leading to "home" and "career", which road might Hermione choose? And *where* is Carole when you need her? She could speak volumes about this issue... --Ebony From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 03:16:31 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:16:31 -0600 Subject: Howdy; ponderings References: Message-ID: <3A69030E.96B14261@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9820 Hi -- Welcome Marvin (glad to see another Texan .... some people are no doubt muttering, "Ah yeah, that's just what we need, another darn Texan on this list")! "Marvin Long, Jr." wrote: > It all started around new year's...my mom had given me the first 2 HP books > for Xmas and I was regarding them rather skeptically (oh come ON, they're > kiddy books!) until I happened to get really sick (stomach bug) and, casting > about for something to read, opened SS and was immediately hooked. I > devoured the first two books in two days and then Sounds similar to stories alot of us have. I read them last January -- having bought a set of Books 1-3 in a fit of curiosity whilst buying a requested set for a Xmas gift for my sister. I knew they'd been dominating the NY Times Bestseller List for ages and I just had to see what all the furor was about. I got hooked along about Ch 2 or so of SS/PS. And, the rest is history. Now look at me: scoring 88% obsessiveness level! > * I wish JKR would offer us some sympathetic characters from Slytherin > House. The one-note nastines of Malfoy and company is getting old and > unconvincing. I've known ambitious rule-benders who were not wantonly > cruel, and it would only make sense for somebody in Slytherin to be > sufficiently concerned about his/her reputation to try to stop Malfoy et > al. from giving the rest a bad name. I hope so too. They are supposedly the ambitious & cunning group, but so far, all we've gotten is just plain nasty. Lots of fanfic (notably our Cassandra Claire's Draco Dormiens & Draco Sinister series) has built a plausible case for Draco redemption. I'd like to see it happen. Or, if nothing else, at least show us a few Slytherins that aren't just vile & despicable. > * I suspect that one of the reasons the Dursley's haven't turned Harry into > a total little sh*t is the strength of their counterexample. They are such > awfully revolting people that I imagine Harry recoils whenever he's tempted > to behave in a way that reminds him of them. When you have a chance, you should search through the Archives & read Peg Kerr's series on HP and the Seven Deadly Sins (and the ongoing Seven Heavenly Virtues). She has some intriguing thoughts along this line as I recall. Penny From mccauley at davesworld.net Sat Jan 20 03:26:52 2001 From: mccauley at davesworld.net (Joe McCauley) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:26:52 -0500 Subject: New member Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.20010119222652.3d4f7f58@mail.davesworld.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9821 New member here - been lurking a few days, and I think I know how the Dursleys felt when they were inundated by owls. How will I ever get all this mess cleaned off my computer. In fact I doubt if I'll be able to stick around long - I used to participate in another fan list that generated only about a fourth the traffic of this one, and my wife complained that I spent too much time on it. A couple of thoughts after recently finishing GoF. First, what's the deal with Cornelius Fudge? I can think of three possibilities: - He's an ally of Voldemort - He's under some sort of curse that prevents him from considering the possibility that Voldemort has returned - He really is just the stubborn, closed-minded mule he seems to be One thing really bugs me about GoF. It seems to me that all Crouch ("Moody") had to do to deliver Harry to Voldemort was to turn some object into a portkey and get Harry to touch it. Even that wouldn't have been necessary if he could have gotten a sample of Harry's blood (possibly under the guise of some DAtDA lesson so no one would have been the wiser) and brought it to Voldemort. Granted, the latter wouldn't have given Voldemort the opportunity to kill Harry himself, but it has the advantage of allowing Voldemort to return without anyone finding out, at least until "Moody's" true identity is found out or one of the other Death Eaters spills the beans on him. Given these two possibilities, why go to all the trouble to get Harry entered into the tri-wizard tournament, help him along to survive and win without raising anyone's suspicions, least of all Harry's, and make sure he's the first to touch the cup? Seems like a pretty roundabout, overly complicated way of doing things if you ask me. Sorry if this has been beaten to death already. -- Joe McCauley "What if Rudolph had been an elephant instead of a reindeer?" From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Sat Jan 20 03:31:43 2001 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:31:43 -0000 Subject: Hermione the housewife? References: <94aot7+de6u@eGroups.com> <003401c0828d$6600c520$0171883e@co.uk> <3A69043A.CA96B7A7@texas.net> Message-ID: <008801c08291$83624c20$0171883e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 9822 : > > > Heather, who quite frankly can't see herself giving up working but who knows. > > *ahem.* While I agree with your posting about it being perfectly acceptable to stay home and knit and bake should one so *choose,* But I must say that "not working" is every bit as challenging, time-consuming, and fulfilling as most paying careers. Rethink your mental boxes, youngling. Sorry so busy arguing about teh right to chose (odd using that phrase in this context) forgot your point which I would agree with so I'll rephrase work for which one is not paid. I currently get (under) paid for working with children I know they are hard work. Difference is I get to go home at 4:00 and recover those who stay at home get nowt. I think if she hadn't worked my Mum woyuld have killed me. I was a challenging child. You know the kind that set teh wastepaper basket on fire while Mums back was turned to see what would happen. .. From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 03:25:19 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:25:19 -0600 Subject: Fanfic zines References: <948nvn+5evi@eGroups.com> <016201c081e6$5547bd80$df3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A69051F.960BD911@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9823 Alexa wrote: > Legally, disclaimers mean nothing. When we write fanfiction, we are > infringing on a copyright, we're doing it wilfully, and that could be legally > actionable. Now, whether a specific case would be won or not, that's another question. > I'm waiting for the day when we get a good fanfiction test case in court, > because I think the argument can be made for fair use and the validity of art forms > that incorporate appropriated material and popular culture as modern > folklore and yadda yadda yadda. > Well, I wouldn't say disclaimers mean *nothing* -- they are some defense at least. IMO, it's better to have a disclaimer than to have no disclaimer. But, as a lawyer, I will say that disclaimers are typically more boilerplate than anything else ... and definitely not a solid defense in this sort of situation. Out of curiosity based on recent discussions, I did some internet sleuthing on legal sites regarding fanfic -- I turned up nothing. I don't think it's been litigated really at all yet. Which brings me to ..... Neil Ward wrote: > I could see attention being drawn to the HP fanfic zines that some people are > describing, if people have to pay for them. "Quality zines" costing $10-$20 > could, I imagine, be subject to criticism, if not action, by JKR, the > publishers or even Warner Brothers. I think the only thing that keeps > ff.net away from this is the fact that there is no charge being levied to > readers. This is my fear: that HP fanzines would end up being the test case in litigation. Like Alexa, I'm worried that WB may make waves -- their C&D letters to website owners may indeed be a portent of things to come. I think fan zines might be just the straw that would break the camel's back. JKR herself has said that she's thrilled that people love the characters & the HP world enough to create fanfic. But, I wonder if she's been exposed to some of the better fanfics and what she might say about that. I happen to know our resident Intellectual Property lawyer is away at a conference (and sick to boot!) .... but I'm sure Heidi will chime in to these discussions when she returns. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 03:35:59 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:35:59 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? References: <94aa46+jrbe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A69079F.555D1A54@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9824 Hi -- Becky Penar wrote: > Just a quick thought here - keeping with the 'Harry is written as a > children's book for children' theme, would JKR really kill off such a > major player that children (like us) have become so attached to?? Hi Becky -- welcome! Of course, the above qualifies as "fightin' words" to one of the "list-moms" (me)! JKR has repeatedly said that she didn't write the books targeted at children. They aren't just children's books. If they were, would we all really be here? This is all mucho condensed from my usual diatribes on this subject (mainly because I have gestational carpal tunnel syndrome -- very fun). Anyway ... there will be a FAQ on this topic soon & you can read all my usual arguments then. Penny (everyone gasps in amazement that I haven't written a 3 page essay on this topic like usual, right??!) From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 03:29:30 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:29:30 -0600 Subject: Aspersions on a certain attractive male character (wasshippers/URL/mystery?) References: <949i5v+tggg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A69061A.27CDAE14@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9825 Hi -- Amy wrote: > Mike wrote: > > "that gaunt guy with the dirty hair ..." > > That Gaunt Guy With The Dirty Hair??!! > > Them's fighting words, AG. Better take that back or you're going to > have a lot of steamed-up women (and not a few steamed-up men) > defending their man Sirius. Yeah .... wait till Carole reads that one! I have to tell a small story about Carole (hoping she won't kill me ... but it's cute). We had started chatting & outlining ASA thoughts. Somehow the subject of Sirius' attractiveness came up. Carole said: "Hell, I thought he was sexy with torn robes & filthy matted hair ... I can't imagine how I'll feel about him once he's even quasi-cleaned up." I always grin when I think about that comment! Indeed .... "The Gaunt Guy with the Dirty Hair" was supposed to be "dead sexy" according to JKR herself .... and well, he's cleaned up pretty well in GoF and ASA (and DD/DS and others)! Penny From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 03:51:14 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:51:14 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: <005701c08289$1c823680$4ea6bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94b1vi+k0pq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9826 Allyson wrote: "Just thought of something else, too..... "We had this discussion in my class today at school. We are at Chapter 18 in CoS and as we muddled through Chapter 17 (the Heir of Slytherin) we were talking about *WHY* we thought Voldemort was such an unloving, uncaring person. I was making the argument about him being 'abandoned' by his muggle father before he was born and one of my students literally yells at me saying "Don't be making excuses for him. Lord Voldemort is just plain evil, Allyson. He needs no excuses for that." I just sat there sort of stunned. Made me glad I had instilled this type of thinking in these kids, but I still thought, WOW!" Ok, just to clarify, are you the teacher or a student? I think that the person who said "Don't be making excuses..." is completely off base. In fact I'm not sure whether they are reading the same books as me. I think that in life, as well as in the canon people aren't born inherently good or evil. (see Amy's message- Who is Harry Potter). As a baby and a small child I don't think that Tom Riddle was evil incarnate. He may have developed into a bigot, a persecuter and eventually a murderous mad-man but he didn't start out as any of those things, IMO. Remember Dumbledore's statement (paraphrased) "It is our choices Harry that determine who we are, far more than our abilities." The books are about courage, and friendship, and free will. I think there MAY be something about Harry that's special but I hope that doesn't take away from the free will aspect. (What essay of Peg's dealt with this?). I do agree with that person in that there are no excuses for the Voldemort's being evil. It's just that IMO he made the decisions and is responsible for them. We're all responsible for our own desicions. Erm, I not so sure I actually said what I was trying to in this message but maybe it made some smidgen of sense... Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 03:56:09 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:56:09 -0600 Subject: Who did Tom Riddle Jr. (Voldy) Kill References: <94akup+9645@eGroups.com> <000901c0827a$7911bb00$ec690f3f@satellite> Message-ID: <3A690C59.6710DB17@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9827 Hi -- Friendly reminder: note how I just changed the subject line. It was "Wizarding Aristocracy (long)". :--) ender_w wrote: > Strange, I for some reason interpreted the opening events of GoF as Voldemort > murdering his father and grandparents. My interpretation is also that Voldy killed his father and grandparents. Perhaps Lexicon Steve can give us a definitive answer .... Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 03:59:35 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:59:35 -0600 Subject: Fanon "ruining" canon References: <94ai6q+dda8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A690D27.553FD4D0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9828 Hi -- Trina wrote: > I was a non-fanfic reader myself up until last Saturday. Now I am > "siriusly" involved with Ebony's TIP and Penny & Carole's ASA. It > starts out with "oh, I'll just check it out to see what all the fuss > is about" and then, before you know it, You are sucked in and can't > escape! Is there a 12-step program for this? Glad you're enjoying ASA Trina! :--) No ... there is no 12-step program as yet. Will the Flying Ford Anglia clinic soon be offering such a program or is the founder of said clinic too caught up in fanfic himself? > I don't think the fanfic is sullying my canon (spelled it right this > time! ) vision of the characters or possible events. I consider > it more like a parallel universe, telling a "what might have been" in > the Wizarding world. Ebony added: > When you read a fanfic that actually plays out something that you'd > always wondered about, and does it well, it's like a shock of > lightening. > > The best fanfics are not *all* about giggling over romantic > pairings. (That's just the icing on the cake. ;-)) The best > fanfics reconcile unresolved canonical issues. In fanfic, a dead > character like Lily can rise from the grave and a live character can > die or mysteriously disappear. The reader can get inside the heads > of little-known Weasleys and Slytherin Seekers, walk around, and stay > a bit if he or she likes. > Well said! Now I need to update the Fanfic FAQ to reflect these great additional thoughts. That is in fact what fanfic is to me -- a possible "what if" scenario. I admittedly have a harder time reading fanfics set during the canon years, although Cassie's stories have given me a great reason to read more of this particular type of fanfic as well. > If your views are solidly formed by canon, then no fanfic can > change them. > Yep. As examples: I can read & enjoy Kathy's "Hermione POV in GoF" series that she's doing right now even though I would write a *completely* different Hermione POV of those scenes. Similarly, Kathy can read & enjoy (?) PoU and TIP and maintain her canon views that H/H is "just wrong" and R/H is "destiny." Great thoughts on Fanfic (and btw, I say "go for it" Trina! Wait! Are you the "right" ship?! ) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 20 04:19:52 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 04:19:52 -0000 Subject: HP Obsession In-Reply-To: <94arsj+4kim@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94b3l8+dskg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9829 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > How'd you get an 83% and you haven't written fanfic yet? :::backs > away from Trina warily::: > I think co-hosting the ivillage.com HPFans board and chat helped me... Trina, who has a fanfic idea blossiming inside her head From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 02:15:18 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:15:18 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz Message-ID: <200101200424.f0K4OVC00230@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9830 >What about the fact that my partner and I ordered TWO copies of the >Goblet of Fire so that we could read them at the same time? Does it >count that we went LOOKING for the Fed Ex truck from Amazon.com and >seriously considered driving to town at 10:30 a.m. and buying another >copy? That's nothing; I had mine Fed-Exed to my hotel in Chacago while I was at a conference (and still went to Borders at midnight in the hopes of getting it a few hours earlier). THEN I skipped a party given by Scholastic (where they were giving out copies of GoF) to stay in my hotel room and read it all night (I even ordered room service so I wouldn't have to stop to eat.) But then, I am 93% obsessed.... (; Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From m-drelichman at northwestern.edu Sat Jan 20 04:30:40 2001 From: m-drelichman at northwestern.edu (Mauricio Drelichman) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 04:30:40 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94b49g+eqd5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9831 I don't see Lucius Malfoy getting into Hogwarts while Dumbledore is headmaster. He got sacked from the school board in PoA, and Dumbledore made plain his dislike of him. Which brings me to the thought that Dumbledore himself will die at sometime. After all, it was him to say that "Death is the ultimate adventure" in PS/SS, when Harry asked if the Flamels, deprived of the stone, would eventually die. Mauricio --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DAOSASP at a... wrote: Besides with > him out of the picture it would present Voldemort with an opportunity to get > someone into Hogwarts where it may hurt the most, in charge of the Slytherin > house. For instance L. Malfoy. > Sean From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 02:23:38 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:23:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ebony an H/H shipper? Who knew? Message-ID: <200101200433.f0K4X3C01345@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9832 Ebony wrote: >C'mon, Kathy, you know me better than that! Hey, I can try, can't I? (; >Tell you what. I'll hire Elanor Gamgee as a marriage counselor for >them... how's that sound? Oooo, good idea, she'll set them straight! (Having been privy to all those secret moments in GoF and all...) >For if this had been a >tale about H/H, the appropriate abbreviation would have been simply P- >-Paradise. As I am unable to respond to this with anything but gagging, I am afraid I shall have to refrain. >BTW, this would mark the third time in two days I've lost Aberforth's >Goat's challenge to not promote my ship. :-) Shameful, innit? Yes, it is. Maybe you H/H people are more vocal after all. (Of course, I can't talk, having just challenged the H/H masses on the PoU list--maybe there should be a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy over there for R/H-ers? Say what you will, Elanor knows the truth... Being very silly tonight, Kathy (AKA Elanor Gamgee) From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 04:13:37 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:13:37 -0600 Subject: Hermione's future References: <94aot7+de6u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A691071.27D662D4@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9833 Hi -- Ebony wrote: > I'm sorry, but I don't think "locked up, barefoot and pregnant" could > ever be used all at once to describe our Miss Granger in any plausible > future scenario. > > Unless, of course, there is something in her character that would cause > her to pull a post-canonical Anne on readers (Trina and Barbara know > what I'm talking about). That would really cause my poor teeth to be > ground to powder. It was one thing for a girl genius to throw in the > towel at the turn of the last century... she had few career choices. > It's quite another for the smartest witch of her generation to sit at > home knitting and baking cookies. Then, Heather chimed in: > What about the theory that the purpose of education is to give you > choices, not take them away. Being the smartest witch of her generation > gives Hermione the oppportunity to choose what she wants to do, and those > choices may change depending on the life stage she is at. > > What if at some point Hermione wants to sit at home and bake cookies? > Would that be so awful? Personally I can't see that she would want to, but > that's not the issue. I deplore those who tell women they are wasting their > education (usually its their degree) staying at home. > Yeah ... I've got thoughts on this. Definitely. I don't think Hermione is the type to ever be "locked up, barefoot & pregnant" because the phraseology suggests that a choice was made *for* her (by a male). Education is very much about giving women choices. I also deplore those who tell women they're wasting their education if they choose to stay home with children (or without children). My mother-in-law implies this alot about me, mainly I think because she didn't have an opportunity to get a college education and never had the choices I have. I retired from practicing law last January (although I still do an occasional consulting project). I did so primarily to focus on having a family but also because I had learned after 9+ years that I *hated* being an attorney. *Hated* it! I still like the intellectual challenge of thinking about legal issues now & then but the actual *practice* of law was an anathema to me. I chose to "stay home" and focus on a writing career. Now, we're about to have a baby and I have a feeling my writing career will be at least temporarily way-laid (although Peg presents a good role model for actually writing books while one has young children!). Long way of saying: I think Hermione could change her mind at some point in life. She too might make the wrong career choice & decide to stay home with kids for a few years while she re-tools her career. Or, maybe she will believe strongly that staying home with the kids is the right thing to do, even at the sacrifice of a few years off an otherwise fulfilling professional life. Or, she'll work part-time & try to have a little of both worlds. Or, she'll continue her career & hire a nanny or daycare or what have you. Or, she'll remain childless perhaps. Lots of choices. She'll have choices though. She *is* the type person I think to make a choice, for whatever reasons seem right to her at the time. She's not the type to stand back & let others choose her destiny for her. > So which of the three would serve as a role model for Hermione? Dr. > Granger? Molly? Minerva? Some combination of the three women? > I think they will all serve as a role model for Hermione in their own way. It'll all combine to influence her life. Maybe her own mum stayed a home for a few years while Hermione was very young. Or, maybe not. Maybe Molly Weasley had a fulfilling career prior to Bill coming along & gave it up to stay home with the kids. We are limited in the female PoV in these stories -- we definitely don't have the full picture. Okay ... carpal tunnel is really getting to me so I need to end this long rambling missive. Not sure I said anything that made any sense anyway. :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From malinaschick at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 04:36:58 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 23:36:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Someone who'll die... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9834 I've just been speculating over this. When I heard that someone was going to die I was so worried because rumors have always floated around that Ron would be the one to go. Ron is my favorite and I would go absolutely crazy if she killed him. I was so upset when Cedric died because I had gotten to know him, ya know? I was attached. I know Ron ten times better I would bawl. I cried when Cedric was killed! I can see me now, in the car on the way home from Albright crying at the death scene. Not to mention Hermione or Hagrid, whom I hadn't even given a thought to. *Sigh* how depressing. @~~~ Steph "I'll kill Fred, he was going on about having to wrestle a troll." -Ron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Schlobin at aol.com Sat Jan 20 04:45:18 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 04:45:18 -0000 Subject: Hermione the housewife? In-Reply-To: <003401c0828d$6600c520$0171883e@co.uk> Message-ID: <94b54u+gean@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9835 > Playing devil's advocate here I think the operative word you used is choices. What about the theory that the purpose of education is to give you choices, not take them away. > > What if at some point Ron wants to sit at home and bake cookies? Would that be so awful? Personally I can't see that he would want to, (after all, who really would) but that's not the issue. I deplore those who tell men they are wasting their education (usually its their degree) staying at home. If they use it to ensure their children have a better start in life. I don't know whether it makes a difference one way or the other. I'm the product of two parents who worked outside the home as well as in it, my dad never stopped working outside the home!(and I don't think I'm dreadfully damaged by the experience). > I have had tons of education but who is to say that ten years down the line I won't want to take a break and stay home with any children I may adopt. Ron has a lot of different role models. There's Draco, neither of whose parents work inside or outside the home. Then there's Hermione, both of her parents work inside and outside of the home. Then there are his own parents, where one works in the home and the other works for the Ministry of Magic. Or will he choose Professor McGonagall or Hagrid as a role model, live by himself, and teach...... Susan From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 02:58:00 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:58:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? Message-ID: <200101200507.f0K57xC06314@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9836 Trina wrote: >As a child I read many children's books in which a character I have >loved died. And, yes, I was devestated when that character died >And, no matter exactly *who* it will >be, I will be needing a box of tissues and major therapy from y'all >to work through my grief. > >Trina I'm with you Trina! I never have finished Little Women, which I started when I was 10 and had to stop reading once I realized who had died (took me a chapter or two)...If Ron dies I may have to take time off work to grieve...and the sad part is that I'm not even exaggerating... Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Jan 20 05:26:36 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:26:36 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! In-Reply-To: <948jho+rlr7@eGroups.com> References: <94863a+djla@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010118215439.00c95a70@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9837 At 05:32 AM 1/19/01 +0000, nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: >Of course; they gave the world the Mini (the original, not BMW's New >Beetle wannabe), the Beatles, Monty Python, French and Saunders... And Fawlty Towers, and Red Dwarf, and a cuter lexicon (e.g. not "popcicles" but "ice lollies"), and lots of great movies starring Alec Guinness, Joan Greenwood, Robert Morley, Moira Sherer, Bill Travers, Virginia McKenna, and many others. >Then they have something in common with our new president. Rumor says >that W needs a GPS system and Dick Cheney to find his. IMHO, the ascension of Dubya to power makes the following Harry quote very relevant: "...I could do with a few laughs. We could *all* do with a few laughs. I've got a feeling we're going to need them more than usual before long." -- Dave From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 03:12:54 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:12:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fanon "ruining" canon Message-ID: <200101200523.f0K5NBC08014@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9838 Penny wrote: >Yep. As examples: I can read & enjoy Kathy's "Hermione POV in GoF" >series that she's doing right now even though I would write a >*completely* different Hermione POV of those scenes. Similarly, >Kathy can read & enjoy (?) PoU and TIP and maintain her canon views that >H/H is "just wrong" and R/H is "destiny." Aw, shucks, thanks Penny. (And yes I do "read and enjoy" PoU and ASA very much even if they are misguided!) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From eggplant88 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 05:27:00 2001 From: eggplant88 at hotmail.com (eggplant88 at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:27:00 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: <200101200507.f0K57xC06314@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94b7j4+tp64@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9839 Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: >If Ron dies I may have to take time off work to grieve...and > the sad part is that I'm not even exaggerating... Forget about Ron, what are you going to do when Harry dies at the end of book 7? I'd bet money he will. From vderark at bccs.org Sat Jan 20 05:30:29 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:30:29 -0000 Subject: Who did Tom Riddle Jr. (Voldy) Kill In-Reply-To: <3A690C59.6710DB17@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94b7pl+scuh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9840 As far as I can tell, there is no specific line which states that the three Riddles killed in 1944 were Tom/Volde's father and paternal grandparents. But I strongly feel that that's who they were. Here's why: The three were "elderly Mr. and Mrs. Riddle...and their grown-up son Tom." That sounds like parent and grandparent to me. We know that in 1944 Tom Riddle Jr. was just out of Hogwarts, since his time at the school coincided with the Chamber of Secrets being opened fifty years before 1992-3. In the stepbrother scenario, the younger person killed in the Riddle house in 1944, also inexplicably named Tom, would be about Tom Jr.'s age, but a bit younger. That makes him younger than 17 or 18, hardly to be described as a "grown-up son." I think it's pretty clear that on that fateful summer night in 1944, Tom Riddle Jr. left Hogwarts, traveled to Little Hangleton, where he was seen briefly by the gardener, a 28-year-old veteren of WWII named Frank Bryce. Later he confronted his father, Tom Sr., and his paternal grandparents, whose last name was Riddle but whose first names we do not know, in the drawing room of their mansion and did something to scare them silly before Avada Kedavra-ing them. He lined them up on the rug and set off to begin his quest for immortality. I think it's pretty clear, but it is not stated specifically. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 03:21:09 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:21:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? Message-ID: <200101200531.f0K5VbC08990@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9841 >Forget about Ron, what are you going to do when Harry dies at the end >of book 7? I'd bet money he will. Strangely, I don't think it would bother me as much. Yes, it would be a shock and it would be upsetting, but not as devastating as if it were Ron. This may be partially due to the fact that we see the story through Harry's POV, and think how horrible it would be for him if Ron died. Ugh, I have to go now, I can't think about Ron dying without getting a knot in my stomach, so I have to stop thinking about it! (This is bad, isn't it? Neil, does your clinic have anything to help with this?) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 20 05:36:03 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:36:03 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <94akup+9645@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94b843+4opo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9842 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, plaeides at h... wrote: > > In "Goblet of Fire" it is explained how Tom Riddle's father was a > muggle and his mother a witch. However his father abandoned Tom and > his mother when he learned of her, er, talents. When she died and > the father had the child forced into his care, he sent Tom off to an > orphanage. He re-married and (I presume) had another son. Tom > Riddle murdered his aristrocratic father, step mother and half > brother in their home one night. If I recall, these were the first > deaths of his rise to power as the Dark Lord. Ok, that sounds pretty familiar. Still, it sounds like Tom Riddle attended Hogwarts for a while without the acknowledgment or financial support of his family...so I wonder how he paid for school supplies. marvin From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 20 05:39:17 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:39:17 -0000 Subject: Howdy; ponderings In-Reply-To: <3A69030E.96B14261@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94b8a5+dqlp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9843 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Welcome Marvin (glad to see another Texan .... some people are no doubt > muttering, "Ah yeah, that's just what we need, another darn Texan on this > list")! Thank you very much. To anybody in the world-at-large nervous about the sudden ubiquity of Texans, all I can say is, "It's not my fault! I didn't vote for him!" > > When you have a chance, you should search through the Archives & read Peg > Kerr's series on HP and the Seven Deadly Sins (and the ongoing Seven Heavenly > Virtues). She has some intriguing thoughts along this line as I recall. Groovy, I'll do that. marvin From astrothena at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 06:24:27 2001 From: astrothena at yahoo.com (Belinda Susan Rodrigues) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 22:24:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Star Wars, Hermione the Housewife and assorted thoughts Message-ID: <20010120062427.3396.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9844 Ebony said: >Once again, I'm impressed. I was born the year A New >Hope was released Oh wow, we must be the same age then. But if you're already teaching, you must have finished college long before I did (last month!). Yup, there are lots of fun parallels between Star Wars and HP. I once drove myself crazy by using Episode 1 as the basis of an argument against JKR doing a prequel series once she finishes all seven books. My main point was that prequels for for Star Wars because we know nothing about Luke and Leia's parents. Then I tried to recount just how we know so far about Lily and my argument crumbled before my eyes... Changing subjects... Hermione being a housewife is about as likely as George W. Bush thinking for himself instead of relying on his daddy's friends . But what I'm curious about is the time frame of wizarding life. Specifically, if they have such long lifespans, why do they meet their spouses as teenagers in Hogwarts? We know James and Lily met in school, as did Arthur and Molly Weasley. How come no one meets their significant other later in life? After all, they have lots of time to play the field. Just a thought, Thena ===== Resident Goddess of Thena's Temple www.geocities.com/astrothena/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From amyfrank400 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 21:20:54 2001 From: amyfrank400 at hotmail.com (Amy Johnston) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:20:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie soundtrack and football Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9845 >Dinah wrote: "While thinking about the movie one of my main concerns was >always which music they'd use fo it. Now I heard several times that Robbie >Williams will do the Soundtrack and just wanted to know what you think >about >it." >Simon wrote: >Please - no! Not Robbie Williams. > JOHN Williams is suppose to be doing the soundtrack. He did the Star Wars movies, Jaws theme, etc. Amy J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sat Jan 20 09:34:24 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:34:24 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: Emergency! Potter misuse alert! References: Message-ID: <002301c082c4$2cf24650$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9846 > --John, who's willing to write a comparative US-UK politics and government > essay for the list if anyone's interested. I'm interested if you can write it towards someone who doesn't know either system... what we have here in Australia does resemble UK politics more than US though. No more than 1,000 words please. Simon. From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sat Jan 20 09:50:48 2001 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:50:48 -0000 Subject: New Office & Official Fan Club Message-ID: <94bn1o+pph4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9847 Hi All Jo (or rather, her P A) has moved office. I've emailed to ask if the address can be made public or not. If so... will post here so anyone wanting to contact Jo by snail-mail can do so directly, rather than via your country's publisher. Official Fan Club Still no news on this... the only Official club is run by Bloomsbury (but as a member of that, I can tell you it's not worth joining). Christopher has been saying for a while now that there are 'things in the pipeline'... and this is still the situation. I wonder how long the pipe is... will we ever see the light at the end of that long tunnel? Nick. From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Fri Jan 19 19:08:01 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (Ffion Miles) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 19:08:01 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9848 Hi mitz! I'm new to HPfor Grownups too - I seem to've had dozens of emails - is that how it works? everyone emails everyone? Anyway, on the 'how many people are there in Hogwarts' question - I've been confused too - because e.g in a Quidditch match, there were 200 Slytherin suports, all dressed in green - and assuing there's 200 in each house, and seven years, there's about ... 30 from each house in one year. But there does only seem to be ten [5 girls, 5 boys] Gryffindors wheneer Harry has classes! Oh well, we shouldn't really nitpick mere details as this when the geneus of JKR has enough to do coming up with such amazing twists and plotlines that I [although anine-year-old I know does] guess what's going to happen. And I hope you've got the cream-thing sorted. Is this an American/UK cross-over problem? Is 'Westham' [as in Dean, the Westham fan] causing you any difficulty? That's a football [soccer[ team in East London - their not that good! Ffion _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 20 11:13:52 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:13:52 -0000 Subject: Getting too many e-mails? (admin; response to Ffion) References: Message-ID: <000f01c082d2$2d540d00$ca3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9849 Ffion Miles said: >>>> I'm new to HPfor Grownups too - I seem to've had dozens of emails - is that how it works? everyone emails everyone? Welcome to the club Ffion (and any other new members). If you are receiving dozens of e-mails every day that means you chose to leave the default setting of "Individual E-mails" when you joined the club. Every time someone posts a message to the HPforGrownUps list, everyone with that option selected receives it as an individual e-mail. There are two other options: - Daily Digest (which bundles together groups of c. 25 messages into a single e-mail, so you get 3 or 4 big e-mails instead of 75-100 smaller ones). - No Mail/Web Only (you won't be sent any e-mails and you must visit the eGroups clubs online to view messages posted to the list). You can change your settings by viewing your membership details, here:- http://www.egroups.com/mygroups ...and changing the option from the pull-down box on the right. Neil Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] com > > > From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 12:40:09 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 06:40:09 -0600 Subject: Another Reminder re: Political Discussions Message-ID: <3A698729.E901FA7F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9850 Hi: Jeralyn the Voicelady posted a friendly reminder yesterday that all political discussions (and off-hand remarks!) are not appropriate for this listserve. I've noticed several messages since then that have included off-hand remarks, jokes and the like regarding current US political news. I ... erm ..... share your feelings, but let's respect the political views of everyone & confine ourselves to HP, shall we? The Moderator Team would prefer not to be forced to start sending people off-topic message warnings & threatening to institute one-week bans from the list for this sort of thing. So .... let's all just keep political opinions, asides, jokes, etc. out of our messages. Thanks for your cooperation! Penny The Moderator Team From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sat Jan 20 12:41:53 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:41:53 -0000 Subject: Wizarding aristocracy (rather long) In-Reply-To: <94akup+9645@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94c12h+mt2v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9851 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, plaeides at h... wrote: > In "Goblet of Fire" it is explained how Tom Riddle's father was a > muggle and his mother a witch. However his father abandoned Tom and > his mother when he learned of her, er, talents. When she died and > the father had the child forced into his care, he sent Tom off to an > orphanage. He re-married and (I presume) had another son. Tom > Riddle murdered his aristrocratic father, step mother and half > brother in their home one night. If I recall, these were the first > deaths of his rise to power as the Dark Lord. No, no, no ,no. Tom Riddle Jnr. killed his father and his grandparents. Tom jnr. is spotted by Frank Bryce on the day of the Little Hangleton murders and he describes him as teenage, while the people murdered were all grown up. Hence, if Tom snr. had had another son he would have been younger than Tom jnr, and hence not grown up. Therefore the three victims at the Riddle house must have been his father and grandparents. Dai From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 13:17:49 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (?) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:17:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Stephen King Makes Potterism Message-ID: <20010120131749.1189.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9852 if you haven't had chance to read ON WRITING by Stephen King, he writes the following advice:"Don't use the passive voice! Don't be a muggle!"He also goes on to recommend the HP series for anyone looking to become a writer. Just thought that was kind of neat :) Since JKR and King are two of my favorite authors--watching my literary worlds collide like that! Chet When Stephen King was hit by that car, he had a loooong time to read. In the back of the book has a list of books he read during his recovery and the first three Harry Potter books are listed. It's safe to assume that by now, he's read the fourth one. From, Anake "who lurks too much" ===== "A machine becomes human when you cant tell the difference anymore."--Dave Bowman, 2001: A Space Odyssey ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 13:34:45 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 07:34:45 -0600 Subject: Stephen King Makes Potterism References: <20010120131749.1189.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A6993F5.D1628F51@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9853 Hi -- > Anake wrote: When Stephen King was hit by that car, he had a loooong time to read. In the back > of the book has a list of books he read during his recovery and the first three Harry Potter books are > listed. It's safe to assume that by now, he's read the fourth one. Stephen King wrote the official New York Times book review of GoF. It was a very favorable review, and ironically (given the then-recent action by the NY Times to remove the HP books from the main bestseller lists), King made a point of stressing at several points in that review that the books were by no means a childrens' series. :--) I don't think it's available on-line any longer, but it was printed in the NY Times Book Review section shortly after July 8th. Penny From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 13:38:54 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (?) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:38:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Future sacrifices? Message-ID: <20010120133854.22497.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9854 > > I don't think she'd kill off Harry, Ron or Hermione - that'd just be > too unbearable - but one of the Weasley twins? That would really be > a symbol of how distructive to good people Voldemort is. > > Any thoughts? I've always thought that it would be Neville that would be killed. From, Anake ===== "A machine becomes human when you cant tell the difference anymore."--Dave Bowman, 2001: A Space Odyssey ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 20 13:13:11 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:13:11 EDT Subject: Gentle Reminder Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9855 *ahem* Politics, whether actually stated or even just implied, is an off-limits topic! Thanks, Voicelady Moderator team From ender_w at msn.com Sat Jan 20 14:19:38 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 09:19:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar References: <94abli+to3e@eGroups.com> <3A68FCB0.C6C007A9@texas.net> Message-ID: <002501c082ec$06951460$daeb183f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9856 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lewanski" To: Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar > Only if every single wizarding child goes to Hogwarts. I don't think we > should assume this. I think there are plenty of magical folk, like Stan > and Ernie of the Knight Bus, who live and work in the wizarding world and > never went to Hogwarts. So I think your population estimate can be > expanded a bit. > > --Amanda Did I miss something? Does it say somewhere, for sure, that Stan and Ernie never went to Hogwarts? ender > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 15:28:03 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Madeline Klink) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:28:03 -0000 Subject: ::waves:: Message-ID: <94caq3+953q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9857 Hullo! Flourish here, a new member of HP4GU. What can I say... I'm only 14, but I've been told I'm quite mature for my age and thought I'd like to give the group a try. Some of you probably know me from my HP column on fanfiction.net and my long history of HP fanfic. I'm a person who fluctuates between different 'ships; currently I'm starting to drift away from H/H and being sucked into the trap of R/H and H/C (but I'll always be a Ginny/Draco shipper. Much more possible than Ginny/Harry, and so hard to do well in fanfic!) In any case, since I don't quite know what you're discussing yet that'll be the end of my first post ~_^ Flourish/Maddy/Nyx From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 15:28:26 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:28:26 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <002501c082ec$06951460$daeb183f@satellite> Message-ID: <94caqq+8lqd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9858 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ender_w" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amanda Lewanski" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:49 PM > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hogwarts population + JKR in Bazaar > > > > Only if every single wizarding child goes to Hogwarts. I don't think we > > should assume this. I think there are plenty of magical folk, like Stan > > and Ernie of the Knight Bus, who live and work in the wizarding world and > > never went to Hogwarts. So I think your population estimate can be > > expanded a bit. > > > > --Amanda > > Did I miss something? Does it say somewhere, for sure, that Stan and Ernie > never went to Hogwarts? > > ender Another trends that seems to apply is that almost all of the long term relationships that we've seen so far (friendships, loves) seem to have formulated via Hogwarts or the Ministry. I admit that this evidence is by no means conclusive. I do take this as evidence that either Harry's world is relatively small or his PoV "lens" is. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 15:56:53 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:56:53 -0000 Subject: D/G Fire and Ice In-Reply-To: <94caq3+953q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ccg5+a244@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9859 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Madeline Klink" wrote: Some of you probably know me from my HP column on fanfiction.net and my long history of HP fanfic. I'm a person who fluctuates between different 'ships; currently I'm starting to drift away from H/H and being sucked into the trap of R/H and H/C (but I'll always be a Ginny/Draco shipper. Much more possible than Ginny/Harry, and so hard to do well in fanfic!) > D/G is extremely unlikely in canon at this vantage point. Alicia/Sue is the first I know of to write it. However, the more I think about it, the more appealing it seems *if* Draco reforms. Recently I found a stream-of-consciousness fic centered around this pairing. Written by a college student, I think the imagery of "fire and ice" is apt. I'd really like to see this fic expanded to include Draco's thoughts. "Burn Frozen" by Sarvihaara http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=181668 D/G, then, is the "fire and ice" ship. Much more Romeo and Juliet than D/H--the Weasleys and Malfoys loathe each other. And much more "opposites attract" than R/H. All in all, Flourish, you have good taste. Just keep your resolve strong and tell your brain firmly, "I will *not* submit to the symptoms of R/H disorder! I will be rational! I will be a healthy H/H shipper!" Whenever you do feel the symptoms of R/H coming on, quickly take a dose of PoU and e-mail us in the morning. --Ebony, attempting to earn a degree in HP Shipper Psychology From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 20 16:10:00 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:10:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard (OT) References: <979979688.595.15504.l10@egroups.com> Message-ID: <002201c082fb$71970a20$f6dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 9860 I'll be interested in reaction to this story, particularly those who interpret any criticism against HP from the so-called Religious Right as a call for censorship http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63583-2001Jan15.html It seems as though another well-known literary work with a teen protagonist is coming under increasingly heavy "friendly fire". - CMC From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 20 16:22:39 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:22:39 -0000 Subject: HP - The Movie O.S.T In-Reply-To: <3A68FE3B.C1A3640A@texas.net> Message-ID: <94ce0f+kagg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9861 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Dai Evans wrote: > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > > Don't hope for much. I don't like John Williams doing the score > > > either; too grandiose, too comic-book for me and this material > > > > Comic book? This is the same guy who did the soundtracks for Saving > > Private Ryan and Schindlers List (particularly heartfelt violin solo > > lead on that one). What comic books do you read? > > Yeah, but he's also the one who's stolen just about every melody from > "The Planets" at one time or another (example off the top of my head: > from The Lord of the Rings [the old one], the tune to "Mithrandir" is > Jupiter [or one of those largish planets] almost note for note), Bakshi's LOTR was scored by Leonard Rosenman (a fine and under-rated composer) not Williams as well > as some other classical works. I wouldn't mind if he gave credit. At one > time my dad, who was irritated by this tendency of John Williams', made > a list of the liftings, but I've no idea what became of it. But I > haven't really kept track lately (babies, no movies anymore), so perhaps > he's writing his own melodies by now. "Talent borrows - genius steals" as Thomas Beecham once quipped. Williams certainly takes from other composers - though not as much from Holst as from Erich Wolfgang Korngold, one of the great filmscore masters of the 30s and 40s (Captain Blood, Anthony Adverse, Kings Row, Between Two Worlds, etc). Yet Williams has a unique and instantly recognizable style, which is something few contemporary film composers have achieved. Williams IMHO has been at the height of powers in recent years, and just about every recent score (e.g., Amistad, Nixon, the Patriot, and especially the beautifully understated and elegiac Pvt. Ryan) has been a masterpiece. Although I will not see the movie under any circumstances, I will listen to Williams' score, which may prove to be the only component of the cinematic version worthy of the literary original. - CMC From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 16:28:06 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:28:06 -0600 Subject: Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard (OT) References: <979979688.595.15504.l10@egroups.com> <002201c082fb$71970a20$f6dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <3A69BC96.997685E2@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9862 Good morning -- Caius Marcius wrote: > I'll be interested in reaction to this story, particularly those who > interpret any criticism against HP from the so-called Religious Right as a > call for censorship > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63583-2001Jan15.html > My reaction is that *any* book-banning or censorship of reading material from public institutions is wrong (wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong!), no matter whether it comes from the left or the right, whether it's done in the name of multi-culturalism, political correctness or any other similar label or whether it's done in the name of religion. The bottom line is that it is *wrong* (IMO of course). :--) I'm flat-out, indisputably 100% against *all* forms of book-banning, no matter what the purported reasons. The kids quoted in this article make the point against such censorship on the grounds of multi-culturalism very well. Perhaps Ebony will chime in with some thoughts on this. OT: why do you refer to the Religious Right as "so-called"? It's my impression that many fundamentalist religious groups refer to themselves in this vein, so I'm confused why it's necessary to include the phrase "so-called." Perhaps I'm just misinformed though. To bring the question back to HP, I still haven't heard any valid counter-arguments to the basic perception that all (or an overwhelming majority) of the current attempts to ban HP from public schools and libraries have been made on religious grounds, from conservative religious groups. If they've been challenged by more "left" oriented groups or on grounds other than religion, I'll confess I haven't heard about it. Penny From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sat Jan 20 16:55:20 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 20 Jan 2001 08:55:20 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] lake musings Message-ID: <20010120165520.13379.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9863 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From relliott at jvlnet.com Sat Jan 20 17:27:16 2001 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 11:27:16 -0600 Subject: A dream come true ;), & your hearts deisre References: <979979688.595.15504.l10@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000401c08306$3cf670c0$36b191d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9864 I just needed to tell someone who would understand! I was walking in the mall and in front of me appeared a 50% off Harry Potter table. You name it ornaments, picture frames, stickers, figurines, stones, BBEF Beans, calendars, stuffed animals, Mirror of Erised, etc... When I looked in the Mirror of Erised, I saw myself purchasing 50% off items. Does that mean true happiness is shopping for discount Harry Potter items. Getting back to reality. If you were to look in the Mirror of Erised, what would you see? From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 18:00:36 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:00:36 -0000 Subject: New member In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.20010119222652.3d4f7f58@mail.davesworld.net> Message-ID: <94cjo4+hnku@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9865 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Joe McCauley wrote: > New member here - been lurking a few days, Welcome! and I think I know how the Dursleys > felt when they were inundated by owls. How will I ever get all this mess > cleaned off my computer. In fact I doubt if I'll be able to stick around > long - I used to participate in another fan list that generated only about a > fourth the traffic of this one, and my wife complained that I spent too much > time on it. > After a while you learn to pick and choose the topics you want to follow. You might want to switch to Web-only viewing if you haven't already, esp. if you have a finite amount of space for email! It'd be nice, though, if Egroups let you trace a parent message from the reply. > A couple of thoughts after recently finishing GoF. First, what's the deal > with Cornelius Fudge? I can think of three possibilities: > - He's an ally of Voldemort > - He's under some sort of curse that prevents him from considering the > possibility that Voldemort has returned > - He really is just the stubborn, closed-minded mule he seems to be > I think Fudge is the stubborn, closed-minded mule he seems to be. He's a parody of a politician who listens to the civil servants and his own press agents too much. (cf. Borsk Fey'lya in the "Star Wars; New Jedi Order" novels) > One thing really bugs me about GoF. It seems to me that all Crouch ("Moody") > had to do to deliver Harry to Voldemort was to turn some object into a > portkey and get Harry to touch it. Have you ever seen the "When I Am An Evil Overlord" list? Someone here has various bits of it rotating as his signature (is the master list online anywhere?). Seriously, the only reason I can think of is necessity to the plot. From plaeides at home.com Sat Jan 20 18:03:39 2001 From: plaeides at home.com (plaeides at home.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:03:39 -0000 Subject: Who DID Tom Riddle murder....I stand corrected. Message-ID: <94cjtr+rpt1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9866 I said that I thought that Tom Riddle's father had left his mother when he learned of her background. I have only recently become a Harry Potter fan, having picked up my niece's book over the holidays to kill some time. Needless to say, I've become hopelessly addicted. But I incorrectly referred to the murdered trio in GOF...not having my own copy, I only remembered a couple and their son being found dead, and then Voldemort, during his soliloquy in the graveyard, tells of how he saught revenge on his father, who had given him his name but nothing more. My interpretation was his father had and provided well for a new family while Tom struggled for survival in the muggle orphanage (which I presumed was the seed of his hate and evilness). I made the comment without hard copy in front of me, and I shouldn't have. I stumbled into this group quite accidently yesterday, and was thrilled when I learned I was not the only adult fan interested in HP. I ran out and purchased all four titles for myself. I reviewed GOF and realized my error immediately. Thus, I bow humbly before you and request your pardon. ~Pleiades From nlpnt at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 18:18:14 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:18:14 -0000 Subject: Star Wars.... and FICTIONAL politicians In-Reply-To: <20010120062427.3396.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94ckp6+tshl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9867 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Belinda Susan Rodrigues wrote: > > Yup, there are lots of fun parallels between Star Wars > and HP. I once drove myself crazy by using Episode 1 > as the basis of an argument against JKR doing a > prequel series once she finishes all seven books. My > main point was that prequels for for Star Wars because > we know nothing about Luke and Leia's parents. Then I > tried to recount just how we know so far about Lily > and my argument crumbled before my eyes... > Has anyone else here read the "Star Wars" novels, particularly the New Jedi Order series? The Empire has atrophied to a small corner of the galaxy and a new republic called (wait for it..) the New Republic runs most of the galaxy from Coruscant. Anyway... In NJO, the leader of the New Republic is an alien named Borsk Fey'lya who at first refused to believe the NR was being invaded from outside the galaxy (aahh, space opera!), then refused to publicize it and devote appropriate military resources to it all the time threatening the careers of those who *were* taking action, including Luke Skywalker, who now runs (take a wild guess!) a training school for Jedi! Another thing I think of with Fudge is "Yes, Minister"; Corny seems to combine the worst traits of Jim Hacker and Sir Humphrey. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 18:32:51 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:32:51 -0000 Subject: What the heck is A New Hope? Message-ID: <94clkj+5eo4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9868 Star Wars fans, help me out here. The SW/HP essay was great. I still think HP is way more interesting. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 18:33:40 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Flourish) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 10:33:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 463 Message-ID: <20010120183340.40462.qmail@web10203.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9869 > there's about ... 30 from each house in > one year. But there > does only seem to be ten [5 girls, 5 boys] > Gryffindors wheneer Harry has > classes! Logistically, there probably is only 10 students per house per year. First of all, there are only four tables of students in the Great Hall. Is it just me or would there have to be (a) more than four tables or (b) really, really *big* tables to accomodate a total of 600 students? Having been in public school all my life, I can tell you that the lunch tables we use here are pretty big. Two of them together would probably accomodate 40 students comfortably, and that's not even considering the fact that Hogwarts meals seem to be several courses long (serving dishes take up a lot of space, especially for so many people). This means that if there were 200 students per house, you would need a 200 foot long table with chairs on both sides - and each student would still only get 2 feet of room! Now, because of the description of the Great Hall this seems highly unlikely to me. Of course, there is the other option that there are 10 students per dorm, but that also isn't likely: we would have at least heard of the other students if this were the case, but we haven't seen any Gryffindors beyond the ten that have already been discussed. > I've always thought that it would be Neville that > would be killed. There is a rumor that Neville eventually becomes a teacher, though. I vote that Professor Sprout gets killed and Neville takes her place at the end of seventh year. > > Only if every single wizarding child goes to > Hogwarts. I don't think we > > should assume this. Obviously, people without much magical talent at all don't go - remember, Neville was afraid he wasn't "magical enough" for Hogwarts. Perhaps there's another wizarding school in England (remember, it says in book 4 that Beauxbatons, Durmstrang and Hogwarts are only the three most *major* wizarding schools in Europe, not the *only* wizarding schools) that's for less talented people, and then the correspondence courses like what Filch uses are for Squibs who never give up hope ~_^ > I do take this > as evidence that > either Harry's world is relatively small or his PoV > "lens" is. Well, although I'm sure that the "lens" is small, the wizarding world isn't large at all: remember, Arthur Weasley says that wizards would've died out at one point had they not intermarried with Muggles. I woudl assume that they're still a small community - especially since Hogsmeade is still the only all-wizard village in England. > D/G is extremely unlikely in canon at this vantage > point. Alicia/Sue > is the first I know of to write it. However, the > more I think about > it, the more appealing it seems *if* Draco reforms. Yes - I don't like D/G when it's just done off the books, it takes a ton of character development to do correctly. I do believe Alicia was the first to write it, Way Back When... > "Burn Frozen" by Sarvihaara Having read it, I love it! I need to find more fanfictions by her. > "I will *not* > submit to the > symptoms of R/H disorder! I will be rational! I > will be a healthy > H/H shipper!" HA! J.K. Rowling herself is much more R/H than I. I mean, come on! You've got the hugs. You've got the rows about Krum. Harry's off mooning after Cho... How can you still hang on? ::weeps:: I am weak. I submit to the greatness of J.K. without question. Hermione and Ron belong together. > It seems as though another well-known literary work > with a teen protagonist > is coming under increasingly heavy "friendly fire". Of course, Catcher in the Rye and Harry Potter are very different - Catcher in the Rye is being opposed by the left, whereas HP is being opposed by the right. I personally think that Catcher in the Rye should continue to be taught in high school - while the multicultural books are good to read (having read both "Things Fall Apart" and "The House On Mango Street" in school), we also need to make sure that we don't start into the trap of "reverse racism" and remove everything with a white protagonist. The teens in the article articulated my feelings about "Catcher" well, so I'll leave it at that ~_^ > Getting back to reality. If you were to look in the > Mirror of Erised, what > would you see? Me meeting J.K. Rowling? Really, I'm not sure. I don't think it's easy to know your heart's desire. It would be awfully nice to be able to look in the Mirror of Erised and genuinely know what your heart's desire is - but that's not an option, unfortunately. One thing I'd like to see is Harry looking in the Mirror of Erised now, later in the books. It would be interesting to see if his heart's desire has changed, if he now is reconciled to the fact that his parents are dead; I think coming to Hogwarts and being accepted by the wizard community would go a long way for that, because he's now got a "family." ===== -Flourish/Maddy/Nyx Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ L.ca.us++/-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From foxmoth at qnet.com Sat Jan 20 18:39:13 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:39:13 -0000 Subject: Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard( not OT anymore) In-Reply-To: <002201c082fb$71970a20$f6dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <94cm0h+pdp0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9870 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > I'll be interested in reaction to this story >From the Archives of the Daily Prophet Circa 1974: [Hogsmeade] Headmaster Albus Dumbledore is meeting with resistance from the Hogwarts Board of Governors in his attempt to broaden the curriculum at Britain's premier school of witchcraft and wizardry. The focus of the controversy is the newly reconstituted Muggle Studies program at the school which this year includes a unit on arts and culture in addition to the traditional social habits and customs, history and politics. The board is already deeply divided over Dumbledore's campaign to make Muggle Studies mandatory for all students. "I fail to see any advantage in taking valuable class time to study what the Muggles themselves refer to as a "vast wasteland," says Titus Malfoy, school governor and prominent spokeswizard for the traditionalist view. "A complete distortion," replies Wendell Weasley, one of Dumbledore's strongest supporters on the Board. Professor Gloria Mundy, Head of the Muggle Studies Department, welcomes the change. "Our Muggle born students have a need to recognize themselves in our society. And the appeal of Shakespear is universal. I've seldom seen such a degree of excitement in our classes." William Shakespear (1564-1616) was the author of several plays, including The Tempest, which will be presented as a student production at Hogwarts this spring. As for the students themselves, they seem enchanted by the prospect. Muggleborn witch and Gryffindor student Lily Evans, 15, who will take the part of Miranda, says she is "just thrilled to be a part of it. All my friends are, too." James Potter, another Gryffindor student, says playing the part of the Muggle prince Ferdinand, who is shipwrecked on an enchanted isle inhabited only by wizards and magical creatures , has given him new insight into Muggle/wizard relations. "Plus I get to snog Miranda" he said, winking. Another view was presented by Severus Snape, 15, of Slytherin, who will be playing the mer/human crossbreed Caliban. Mr. Snape declined to comment for for the record, but did threaten to turn this reporter into a toad. Pippin From pbnesbit at msn.com Sat Jan 20 18:40:07 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:40:07 -0000 Subject: New member In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.20010119222652.3d4f7f58@mail.davesworld.net> Message-ID: <94cm27+vmdn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9871 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Joe McCauley wrote: > New member here - been lurking a few days, and I think I know how the Dursleys > felt when they were inundated by owls. How will I ever get all this mess > cleaned off my computer. In fact I doubt if I'll be able to stick around > long - I used to participate in another fan list that generated only about a > fourth the traffic of this one, and my wife complained that I spent too much > time on it. > > A couple of thoughts after recently finishing GoF. First, what's the deal > with Cornelius Fudge? I can think of three possibilities: > - He's an ally of Voldemort > - He's under some sort of curse that prevents him from considering the > possibility that Voldemort has returned > - He really is just the stubborn, closed-minded mule he seems to be > > One thing really bugs me about GoF. It seems to me that all Crouch ("Moody") > had to do to deliver Harry to Voldemort was to turn some object into a > portkey and get Harry to touch it. Even that wouldn't have been necessary > if he could have gotten a sample of Harry's blood (possibly under the guise > of some DAtDA lesson so no one would have been the wiser) and brought it to > Voldemort. Granted, the latter wouldn't have given Voldemort the opportunity > to kill Harry himself, but it has the advantage of allowing Voldemort to > return without anyone finding out, at least until "Moody's" true identity is > found out or one of the other Death Eaters spills the beans on him. Given > these two possibilities, why go to all the trouble to get Harry entered into > the tri-wizard tournament, help him along to survive and win without raising > anyone's suspicions, least of all Harry's, and make sure he's the first to > touch the cup? Seems like a pretty roundabout, overly complicated way of > doing things if you ask me. > > Sorry if this has been beaten to death already. > > -- > Joe McCauley > "What if Rudolph had been an elephant instead of a reindeer?" Crouch/Moody had to wait until the Triwizard Tournament because Voldemort's "re-imbodiment" had to take place in the graveyard where his father was buried. He (Voldy) was waiting until the "time was right." All three pieces of the re-imbodiment puzzle had to work just so. Plus, it's a darn good cliffhanger! For me, it read naturally. Nothing ever seems forced or contrived in Jo's books-- maybe that's just a serious case of suspension of disbelief on my part. Parker Parker From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 18:45:09 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:45:09 -0000 Subject: Quidditch strategy (was Couple of silly detail-questions...) In-Reply-To: <94aphm+bh07@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94cmbl+rmub@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9872 Mike S. wrote: >First, in CoS, Chap. 7, Harry is feeling guilty about missing the last >game of the season in SS/PS, resulting in Gryffindor's "worst defeat >in three hundred years." Now, I had always assumed that the Seeker was >prohibited from touching the Quaffle. Assuming this is true, there's >no reason why it should have been a particularly devastating defeat. >That is, Gryffindor's Chasers and Keeper have always been more than >able to keep up with the other teams, point-scoring-wise. So there's >no reason that it should have been a particularly bad defeat, they >should have just lost by around 150. (Assuming, of course, that the >Seeker isn't allowed to become a temporary Chaser. If he/she is, then >it's a whole new ballgame, with a power play type of situation.) Neither of your questions was silly. Remember, you are talking to a group of people who can have passionate discussions about how many people can fit into a magical dining hall. The sense I get is that any player can do almost anything in the game. Note e.g. Harry's blast at the Slytherin defenders to support Angelina's shot on goal in the game that wins them the Cup (PoA, 311 US ed. "The Quidditch Final"). (Note also that it nearly loses them the game b/c Malfoy sees the Snitch at that moment--so the strategy might not be that sound, though the rules permit it.) I think no one can catch the Snitch besides the Seeker, though. Too often it's close to another player, who even if he/she wasn't much of a Seeker could just reach out and grab it. Since someone has to catch the Snitch to end the game, whoever does so has a lot more control over the final score. The Gryffindors can keep scoring 'til doomsday, but the opposing team (Ravenclaw was it?) will have the best shot at choosing when to end the game since they have a real Seeker, therefore they are likely to try to end it when they're way up. One other thing--this gets back to numbers and the way JKR describes things. I think it is safe to assume that there are more than 7 players on the squad. Alicia was a reserve the year before PS/SS (186 USed, "Quidditch"). Elsewhere Harry says "we don't have a reserve Seeker," which implies that they do have other reserves. For brevity's sake JKR only talks about the starting 7 but there must be more. So in that last game of PS/SS, Gryffindor might have a full complement of 7. They just don't have a Seeker. It's like trying to play basketball (Wood: "What's basketball?" Honestly, these purebloods . . .) when your star center is hurt--you can win but you're at a great disadvantage. Another Quidditch issue: I still find it hard to believe that Krum would end the World Cup and ensure his team's defeat. They weren't *that* far behind, and it shows zero faith in his own Chasers. Didn't they want to kill him? >We have ample experience with ghosts >being invisible and speaking, so why not just assume that it was one >of them? Good point! Maybe Ron and Harry don't know ghosts can be invisible? The only one we see vanishing is Peeves, no? But Harry pretends to be the invisible Baron and that goes over okay . . . I think you're right, they should've entertained that possibility. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "And some old witch in Bath had a book that you could *never stop reading*! You just had to wander around with your nose in it, trying to do everything one-handed." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ----------------------------------------------------------------- From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Jan 20 18:44:43 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:44:43 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What the heck is A New Hope? References: <94clkj+5eo4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008901c08311$0e6ed0c0$a02907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9873 A new hope is the classical, traditional Star Wars One, which was of course Star Wars 4. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 18:55:17 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:55:17 -0000 Subject: HP - The Movie O.S.T In-Reply-To: <3A68FE3B.C1A3640A@texas.net> Message-ID: <94cmul+fnbo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9874 Amanda wrote: >Yeah, but he's also the one who's stolen just about every melody from >"The Planets" at one time or another He "stole" that opening melody of Schindler's List too. I don't know what it's called--anyone? I think it's Hungarian?--but I know it's been around because it is the same as "Gloomy Sunday," jazz song made famous by Billie Holiday. Great composers do that all the time, though it's true that they usually steal folk music, not other composers' works. My main complaint with John Williams is the comic book problem. I think he's bombastic and predictable. Add to the already mentioned ones Superman, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jaws (are he and Spielberg lovers or what's going on?), and the Boston Pops, which he used to conduct, and you get the picture. But it's true that he's done a zillion other movies so maybe we can hope for something subtler. So who should do the music? I think Enneo Morricone is dead, so I vote for Mark Knopfler (Local Hero, and of course Dire Straits). I know, I know, it's way too late and no one at Time/Warner's asking my opinion. But he is the Wizard of the Electric Guitar so it seems appropriate. Going to go put Love Over Gold on the stereo, Amy Z --------------------------------------------- Crabbe and Goyle chuckled trollishly. -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban --------------------------------------------- From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 19:00:16 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:00:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another Reminder re: Political Discussions References: <3A698729.E901FA7F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A69E03F.65C65C2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9875 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Jeralyn the Voicelady posted a friendly reminder yesterday that all > political discussions (and off-hand remarks!) are not appropriate for > this listserve. I've noticed several messages since then that have > included off-hand remarks, jokes and the like regarding current US > political news. I ... erm ..... share your feelings, but let's respect > the political views of everyone & confine ourselves to HP, shall we? Thank you thank you thank you! I was getting tired of biting my tongue. Being good is *such* a trial sometimes.... --Amanda From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 19:02:10 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:02:10 -0000 Subject: Adventures of V in his youth (was Wizarding aristocracy) In-Reply-To: <94akup+9645@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94cnbi+m90s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9876 Marvin wrote: >Ok, that sounds pretty familiar. Still, it sounds like Tom Riddle >attended Hogwarts for a while without the acknowledgment or financial >support of his family...so I wonder how he paid for school supplies. There have to be scholarships or something. Harry's rich, he pays his own way. But Riddle was one of the best students Hogwarts has ever had, and he was penniless and parentless. Bet the school paid his way (they'd have to at least have paid for his books/supplies). Bet they regret it, too. Plaeides (great name!) @home.com wrote: >If I recall, these were the first >deaths of his rise to power as the Dark Lord. His first outright murders, as far as we know. He did also kill Moaning Myrtle, though that may or may not have been deliberate. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 18:59:02 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:59:02 -0000 Subject: How V got that way (was Future sacrifices?) In-Reply-To: <94b1vi+k0pq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94cn5m+alu7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9877 Scott wrote: >I think that the person who said "Don't be making excuses..." is >completely off base. Interesting post, Scott. And Allyson, I am very jealous that you have an excuse to discuss this book at work. I'd make a distinction between making excuses and trying to understand the origins of someone's character and behavior. I would like very much to know how Hitler came to be the way he was. IMO he was probably born a normal child, with certain tendencies but nothing written in stone that *required* him to be one of human history's worst and bloodiest haters. Asking how he ended up that way isn't making excuses--there is no possible excuse--it's an attempt to know how human spirits are shaped and, one hopes, how to keep from growing more haters. You can still believe in demonic possession or in people being born evil, but since I don't I am interested in how V got to be the way he is. "He's just evil" begs the question; it doesn't answer it. You could assign it as an essay topic to your students. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 19:05:19 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:05:19 -0000 Subject: Harry's taste (in vehicles) In-Reply-To: <94aimm+l4bb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94cnhf+asdi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9878 Scott wrote: >Harry in a jeep? Oh no that just doesn't fit in my mind. Harry >belongs in a Mini. Whoever said that was right on! Harry belongs on a broomstick. I'm put in mind of a Kevin Pollak routine about Star Trek. He's shaking his head over William Shatner's fall from Captain Kirk to TJ Hooker. "I mean, this guy had a STARSHIP," he says wonderingly. "What's he got now, a Plymouth?" Who would drive when they can fly? Amy Z ...ready to turn in my car for anything, a Clean Sweep 3, I don't care, as long as it gets off the ground I'll take it From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 19:12:17 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:12:17 -0000 Subject: 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.16.20010119222652.3d4f7f58@mail.davesworld.net> Message-ID: <94cnuh+athk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9879 Welcome, Joe! Joe wrote: >he could have gotten a sample of Harry's blood (possibly under the guise >of some DAtDA lesson so no one would have been the wiser) and brought it to >Voldemort. Granted, the latter wouldn't have given Voldemort the opportunity >to kill Harry himself, but it has the advantage of allowing Voldemort to >return without anyone finding out, at least until "Moody's" true identity is >found out or one of the other Death Eaters spills the beans on him. This topic *has* been discussed recently--check through the last week's posts for the Crouch/Moody thread--but no one suggested the blood-taking idea. You are frighteningly resourceful! I hope you never go over to Voldemort's side or we're all in trouble. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 19:15:17 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:15:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Soundtrack References: <94ce0f+kagg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A69E3C4.FB239380@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9880 Caius Marcius wrote: > Bakshi's LOTR was scored by Leonard Rosenman (a fine and under-rated > composer) not Williams Shows you how long it's been since I was really paying attention to my dad, eh? I checked my album (yes, children, I still have actual long-playing vinyl albums....) and you're right. Rosenman didn't, however, credit Holst. And I *do* remember Dad having a John Williams "swiped" list. I just got them confused. Alas, my father is no longer around to ask. Anyway, regardless of whether, or from whom, themes are lifted, John Williams tends to to a creditable job of soundtracks, so this should be good. > Although I will not see the movie under any circumstances, I will > listen to Williams' score, which may prove to be the only component > of the cinematic version worthy of the literary original. I have found that it is only in the separate listening to of a score that one can appreciate its workmanship. A really good score, like a really appropriate picture frame, does its job and disappears into the whole film experience. If it sticks out enough for you to notice it, it's not doing its job. So I will also be listening to the score sans the movie (but I'm gonna go see it, I have to, it has Alan Rickman in it!). --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 19:19:42 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Dee (Denise) R) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:19:42 -0000 Subject: Poll missing my location. :( Message-ID: <94coce+lkka@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9881 The poll http://www.egroups.com/surveys/HPforGrownups?id=495559 is missing my location--I'm Great Lakes. We're eastern, but not seaboard, so what are we called? Ohio. Sighs. (If someone tosses me a category, I'll vote for it!) Dee From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 20 19:20:21 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:20:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) References: <94cnuh+athk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A69E4F5.716ECFF8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9882 Amy wrote: > This topic *has* been discussed recently--check through the last > week's posts for the Crouch/Moody thread--but no one suggested the > blood-taking idea. You are frighteningly resourceful! I hope you > never go over to Voldemort's side or we're all in trouble. But the incantation was "Blood of an enemy, forcibly taken." Simply getting some of Harry's blood wouldn't fill the bill, would it? And taking Harry's blood by force would have effectively ended Barty Jr.'s ability to play Moody the good guy, which was necessary until the third task. Why, you all chorus? I still think the whole Tournament setup was a vehicle to allow Voldemort to appear suddenly and very unexpectedly before an assemblage of his strongest enemies, allowing him to zap all or most of them before they could react. Especially if he brought a crew of Death Eaters along, he could have eliminated any opposition in one swell foop. Voldemort is enough a creature of ego to believe he could do this, given the element of surprise. --Amanda From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 19:23:53 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:23:53 -0000 Subject: D/G Fire and Ice In-Reply-To: <94ccg5+a244@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94cok9+6dq6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9883 Just keep your resolve > strong and tell your brain firmly, "I will *not* submit to the > symptoms of R/H disorder! I will be rational! I will be a healthy > H/H shipper!" Whenever you do feel the symptoms of R/H coming on, > quickly take a dose of PoU and e-mail us in the morning. Ulp--PoU is *not* a good way to convince Ron lovers to go over to H/H. If you have to kill Ron to get H & H together, I'm not having any of it. Now, if H/H is okay with Ron a la Draco Dormiens/Draco Sinister, I can live with it. (But as JKR asks H/Hers, "Do you really think they're suited?") Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From andeinmn at aol.com Sat Jan 20 19:30:04 2001 From: andeinmn at aol.com (andeinmn at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:30:04 EST Subject: Taking the plunge Message-ID: <5f.fc9d8e3.279b413c@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9884 Another newbie, checking in... Been lurking about a week now. When I read about this group in the Salon article (I am a Salon junkie) I was thrilled to find other adults who are Harry Potter fanatics! I found HP last March. I had knee surgery and a friend loaned me 1-3 to read during my recuperation. I was enchanted and quickly read and reread them, returning them very reluctantly. When GoF came out, I told myself I could wait and borrow it again. Wrong! The closer midnight approached the more I knew I couldn't wait another minute! I jumped in my car and drove through a very vicious thunderstorm, only to be told, to my dismay, that since I hadn't reserved a copy, I couldn't get one. ARRGH!! It took me FOUR LONG days to find an unclaimed copy, and I now have 1-3 as well, and believe me, I have learned my lesson! I am so glad to have found this group. Actually I can't believe I didn't find you myself. I was introduced to the fun of lists during my Babylon 5 obsession and still participate in a list devoted to the work of Alan Rickman (I usually despise movies made from books I love, but I must say I think he will make a delicious Snape!) Andrea, looking forward to lots of fun here From swussian at graffiti.net Sat Jan 20 19:32:38 2001 From: swussian at graffiti.net (Tanja Suhinina) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:32:38 +0800 Subject: Mirror of Erised Message-ID: <20010120193238.13543.qmail@graffiti.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9885 > > Getting back to reality. If you were to look in the Mirror of Erised, what > would you see? > That reminds me... I always connect the mirror scene in Eyes Wide Shut and the mirror of Erised. By the way, don't Cruise and Kidman remind of James and Lily... At least the hair colours? :) All Kubrick and no sleep make Tanja a dull girl. -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 17:10:19 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:10:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another shameless plug Message-ID: <200101201934.f0KJYbC07991@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9886 OK, I swore to myself that I would only do one shamless plug for my fanfic, but I think we have established that my willpower when it comes to anything involving HP is virtually nonexistent, so here you are. (Plus I am getting addicted to reviews, so anything to feed the habit.) ON to the plug: Part 9 of "Hermione's 4th Year" is now up. This is a series of "missing scenes" from GoF from Hermione's point of view, and to the surprise of no one who has heard me blather on, it's R/H. My goal was to show what was *really* going on during GoF (grins in Penny's direction). So, if you are so inclined,please read (pretty please?). Here's the link to all 9 parts (and also a groovy picture of me being librarian-esque, in case anyone wonders what this "misguided" soul looks like): www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory-authorProfile&userid=17561 Thanks Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 19:36:02 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:36:02 -0000 Subject: Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard (OT) In-Reply-To: <002201c082fb$71970a20$f6dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <94cpb2+4jo9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9887 Where'd the word "ban" come into it? No one in that article suggested *banning* Catcher in the Rye. It is one thing to wrestle with what should be required reading and quite another to say that a book is out of the question because of its POV, language, or themes. And another still to try to remove it from shelves entirely. Your point that the left can also be intolerant of literary freedom is well taken, however. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From andeinmn at aol.com Sat Jan 20 19:36:26 2001 From: andeinmn at aol.com (andeinmn at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:36:26 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hi, I'm New.... Message-ID: <6e.70725de.279b42ba@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9888 In a message dated 1/18/01 8:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, aichambaye at yahoo.com writes: > My other major obsession is a book series called Trixie Belden. If > you know this series (or remember it, as it is out-of-print), you > should be noticing a trend... children's books with mysteries! > Heather, any time you want a side discussion about Trixie Belden, email me privately. Trixie was my first big obsession, many decades ago. I still reread them and enjoy them as much as ever. A much better detective than that prissy chick with the roadster!! Andrea From summers.65 at osu.edu Sat Jan 20 19:40:52 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:40:52 -0500 Subject: Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9889 I'm curious as to how much merchandise people are accumulating. I work at Borders so the temptation is before me every day. So far my list includes: 1. All four books with cardboard slipcase 2. Collector's edition of SS 3. UK edition of GoF 4. Big sticker book (for the bumpers) 5. Quidditch t-shirt 6. HP charms from Hallmark 7. Glass with Hogwarts seal 8. Prefect's edition of SS trivia game (the big fancy one) 9. Bookmark (Mirror of Erised design) 10. Poster (the Quidditch one) I will soon acquire the Gringott's bank, which is really really cute. I must say that I've been pleased generally with the quality of the merchandise and also by the choices of items they're making. Almost all of the stuff (aside from the requisite clothing items) is brainy...journals, stationary, calendars, picture frames, games, puzzles, bookmarks, desk sets, bookends, etc. The picture frames are all really cute. Even the figurines aren't really action figures, just collectible figurines. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "What Women Want" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman *************************************************** From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 20 19:34:42 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:34:42 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: D/G Fire and Ice References: <94cok9+6dq6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A69E852.1927BB8C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9890 Hi -- Amy wrote: > Ulp--PoU is *not* a good way to convince Ron lovers to go over to H/H. > If you have to kill Ron to get H & H together, I'm not having any of it. As Lori mentioned on PoU just yesterday, her fanfic Hermione believes that she and Ron wouldn't have lasted and that she would have ended up with Harry anyway. Lori went on to note that his death may have delayed H&H's involvement in some ways as well. This is, of course, all within the PoU universe. I maintain that it's perfectly plausible to write a fanfic where H&H are happily involved that doesn't also require Ron to be dead, ignored, evil or anything of that nature. I'd like to take a stab at it someday. I think it can be done. > Now, if H/H is okay with Ron a la Draco Dormiens/Draco Sinister, I can > live with it. (But as JKR asks H/Hers, "Do you really think they're > suited?") Yes! I think they're much better suited than R/H. :--) And, so might she. Answering a question with a question is usually a convenient way of avoiding a question. Penny From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Jan 20 19:39:55 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:39:55 -0500 Subject: Liking Ron and ships References: <94cok9+6dq6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007401c08318$c5088ea0$f149d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9891 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy " > Ulp--PoU is *not* a good way to convince Ron lovers to go over to H/H. > If you have to kill Ron to get H & H together, I'm not having any of > it. I have to say here that I really like Ron, but am not an R/H shipper....I just play one when consulting with Ebony. Why does Ron have to be with Hermione to be happy? I just do not see them as well suited at all. As stated over on the PoU list, Hermione does think through whether she would still be with Ron (at 27) and comes to the conclusion that she would not and that she would still be in love with Harry....so in short, Ron does not necessarily need to be dead in order for H/H to get together. I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to dislike Ron to be a H/H shipper. > > Now, if H/H is okay with Ron a la Draco Dormiens/Draco Sinister, I can > live with it. (But as JKR asks H/Hers, "Do you really think they're > suited?") > In a word, yes...and much more suited than R/H. hoping not to start a shipping war, but just throwing in my opinion. carole From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 17:22:54 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:22:54 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] JKR's greatness Message-ID: <200101201947.f0KJlWC09811@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9892 Flourish wrote: >HA! J.K. Rowling herself is much more R/H than I. I >mean, come on! You've got the hugs. You've got the >rows about Krum. Harry's off mooning after Cho... How >can you still hang on? ::weeps:: I am weak. I submit >to the greatness of J.K. without question. Hermione >and Ron belong together. You know, I was going to respond to thi, but since everyone knows what I would say anyway, and it does sort of speak for itself, I will just sit here and grin knowingly. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 19:47:34 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:47:34 -0000 Subject: 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) In-Reply-To: <3A69E4F5.716ECFF8@texas.net> Message-ID: <94cq0m+3hns@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9893 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > But the incantation was "Blood of an enemy, forcibly taken." Simply > getting some of Harry's blood wouldn't fill the bill, would it? And taking > Harry's blood by force would have effectively ended Barty Jr.'s ability to > play Moody the good guy, which was necessary until the third task. Hmmm...he could have taken it in his sleep. I definitely think that would count as "forcibly taken." It's not quite as forcible as tying someone to a headstone and stabbing him in the arm, but it's still without consent. Ditto, perhaps, any way he could have taken it without Harry knowing his real purpose. If my doctor takes my blood to run a test for me, that's not force. If she then uses it to clone me without my knowledge, THAT'S force. But I'm not a dark wizard so what do I know? Amy Z From andeinmn at aol.com Sat Jan 20 19:49:38 2001 From: andeinmn at aol.com (andeinmn at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:49:38 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Soundtrack Message-ID: <2d.658721c.279b45d2@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9894 I will accept a John Williams soundtrack, but please, I beg of you, NO pop songs! No Elton John, no Randy Newman, no (shudder) Celine Dion! And, Amanda, don't I know you from the Alan Rickman onelist? Andrea From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 19:53:24 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:53:24 -0000 Subject: Liking Ron and ships In-Reply-To: <007401c08318$c5088ea0$f149d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94cqbk+frpm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9895 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > > As stated over on the PoU list, Hermione does think through whether she > would still be with Ron (at 27) and comes to the conclusion that she would > not and that she would still be in love with Harry....so in short, Ron does > not necessarily need to be dead in order for H/H to get together. Oh yeah, I know. I've read and enjoyed PoU. My point (which was partly tongue in cheek) was that reading PoU gave me two feelings: (1) H & H are so good together! (2) OH MY GOD, SHE KILLED RON! On the principles of aversion therapy, putting these two things together may make an otherwise malleable reader run screaming from any H/H combination! Amy Z From ender_w at msn.com Sat Jan 20 20:12:37 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:12:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: New member References: <94cm27+vmdn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002501c0831d$5679ffa0$ebe8183f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9896 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Parker Brown Nesbit" To: Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 1:40 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: New member > > > > One thing really bugs me about GoF. It seems to me that all Crouch > ("Moody") > > had to do to deliver Harry to Voldemort was to turn some object > into a > > portkey and get Harry to touch it. Even that wouldn't have been > necessary > > if he could have gotten a sample of Harry's blood (possibly under > the guise > > of some DAtDA lesson so no one would have been the wiser) and > brought it to > > Voldemort. Granted, the latter wouldn't have given Voldemort the > opportunity > > to kill Harry himself, but it has the advantage of allowing > Voldemort to > > return without anyone finding out, at least until "Moody's" true > identity is > > found out or one of the other Death Eaters spills the beans on > him. Given > > these two possibilities, why go to all the trouble to get Harry > entered into > > the tri-wizard tournament, help him along to survive and win > without raising > > anyone's suspicions, least of all Harry's, and make sure he's the > first to > > touch the cup? Seems like a pretty roundabout, overly complicated > way of > > doing things if you ask me. > > > > Sorry if this has been beaten to death already. > > > > -- > > Joe McCauley > > "What if Rudolph had been an elephant instead of a reindeer?" > > Crouch/Moody had to wait until the Triwizard Tournament because > Voldemort's "re-imbodiment" had to take place in the graveyard where > his father was buried. He (Voldy) was waiting until the "time was > right." All three pieces of the re-imbodiment puzzle had to work > just so. Plus, it's a darn good cliffhanger! For me, it read > naturally. Nothing ever seems forced or contrived in Jo's books-- > maybe that's just a serious case of suspension of disbelief on my > part. > > Parker > > Parker Is it also possible that Voldemort wanjts to make a dramatic re-entrance? How dull would it be if Harry picked up a dinner plate one evening and was transported to the graveyard then? Sure it would cause quite a stir, but not nearly as much explosive exscitement as disappearing in front of a huge audience watching a much-hyped sporting event in which Harry was one of the centers of attention. ender > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 20:23:51 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Flourish) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:23:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: Merchandise Message-ID: <20010120202351.33198.qmail@web10208.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9897 Lori, in response to your post... Most of the merchandise I like. My two major gripes are that the Hermione seems to be based on the movie - version Hermione, with wavy blond hair rather than curly brown hair, and that Harry is invariably taller than Ron (he's *shorter* in the books!) So far, I've got: All four books (no slipcover, though) PS and PoA in German, with CoS on back order PS in Japanese SS collector's edition; also, SS paperback "Quidditch" hat Hogwarts crest t-shirt (all the really cool looking ones say "Gryffindor" on them. Unfair!) Harry Potter lunch box Figurines of Harry with potions bottle, Harry catching the snitch and Dumbledore with his wand Little boxes of Harry and the Sorting Hat, the Snitch, and Hedwig Hedwig christmas ornament HP picture frame The "Big Sticker Book" And that's only the official merch... I've also got a cape, hat, two pairs of glasses and a ton of HP temporary tattoos from the midnight wait at Barnes and Noble's, which *I* don't think of as official ~_^ Surprisingly, I've only paid for about half that merch... the rest has been Christmas gifts from well-meaning friends. Once you get one thing, you just can't stop... and I was considering boycotting it at first! Also, on the subject of Moldy Voldy: I think his major reason for waiting was that he was too weak at first. Remember that Wormtail had to nurse him back to health with snake's milk (Does anyone else know what's up with that?!?) and carry him around anywhere. From what we saw at the beginning of the book, he couldn't possibly have even moved until much later. Once there had been a time lapse, he probably figured that he could buy some time by taking Harry in the middle of the Tournament: people might think that he was still searching, at least for a half-hour or so - giving him plenty of time to carry out the spell before people figured out that anything was wrong, much less managed to get to where he was. ===== -Flourish/Maddy/Nyx Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ L.ca.us++/-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 20 19:53:02 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:53:02 -0000 Subject: Popular fanfics by our members... Message-ID: <001401c0831a$bb400fe0$013570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9898 Hello all... I'm sure some of our new members would really enjoy reading the fanfic, by Lori, Penny & Carole and Cassie, over at ParadignOfUncertainty. With this in mind, can I suggest that we don't reveal too many key details of the various fics over there? I know some of us are now very familiar with these stories (including those are writing them, obviously), but it would be a shame to spoil the experience for others. For those who are interested, there is a whole eGroups club (as large and active as this one) for accessing and discussing these fanfics, at:- http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty Neil (Okay, I know I mentioned leather trousers the other day... it just slipped out) _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 21:34:57 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:34:57 -0600 Subject: Now for something completely OT. (merger news) References: <94coce+lkka@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <050801c08328$e39817e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9899 I am copying this for those of use who are interested in the merger, and what it means to our group here, as well as other egroups we moderate. I have already used this to convert myself to "yahoo" btw. Here's the copy of the letter they sent out this weekend: Hope it helps! Dear "Merger" and "Yahoo Clubs" group members, We want you to be among the first to try out our new beta site for Yahoo! Groups. As you know, we've been working hard to integrate eGroups into Yahoo! to form Yahoo! Groups. We've completed a beta version of this new service, and are asking a limited number of users to try it out and provide us with feedback. As part of the Merger and Yahoo Clubs groups, we invite you to go to the following link to try out the beta site: http://beta.groups.yahoo.com Note: Since this is in beta form and a limited release, we'e created access for only a select number of users, and we ask that you not pass along this URL and login to others. login: egroups password: onelist NOTES ABOUT THE BETA: - There are still items that require improvements (see below). - There is limited hardware devoted to this beta, so some functions may be much slower than the actual service when it goes live. - From time to time, we will be updating the beta release with fixes. The beta may be unavailable while we make these updates. REGISTRATION/SIGN IN - In order to use the site, you will need to login to the Yahoo! Network. This requires Yahoo! registration and a "conversion" of your eGroups account into a Yahoo! account. To convert your eGroups account, click on the "Convert your account here" button in the upper left corner of the Yahoo! Groups home page. You can convert multiple email addresses connected to one Yahoo! ID. MY PROFILE / PREFERENCES - My Preferences: Here you can edit your global settings across the entire site for things such as posting aliases, text vs. html email, account status (bouncing, normal, etc.). This used to be part of My Profile, but now is on its own page. - Profiles: Display and Editing your profile is now done through the Yahoo! Profiles page. This is where you can share information about yourself with others: http://profiles.yahoo.com - Using the Yahoo! Profiles system, you can now specify which profile you'd like to use to subscribe to a group. You can now show different personal information for different types of groups. For instance, you can set up a professional profile, a family profile, a silly profile, etc. - "Do not disturb" function: From your My Preferences page, you can now keep anyone from using member add/invite function to add/invite you to their group. - New directory structure: We've converted from the Open Directory Project to the Yahoo! Directory, staffed with lots of people who maintain the directory and keep groups well categorized for users like you. URLS - Most URLs have changed to support future integration with other properties in the Yahoo! network. Don't worry though, old URLs should correctly redirect. SETTINGS - You can switch your membership type to Closed, which means only people you invite or add can join. Once a group is Closed, it can not be switched back. - You can now choose a color theme for all the pages of your group. Choose from one of those we've provided, or choose your own unique colors! - You can now specify a URL for a group Photo to show on a group home page, rather than having to know HTML to do so. (You can still use HTML in your description if you want, but this just makes it easier for those who don't.) CHAT - Your groups will now use Yahoo! Chat (much improved over eGroups). MEMBERS - Online presence: You will now be able to see which members of your group are running Yahoo! Messenger, so you can communicate instantly. OTHER - There is a download limit on the Files section. Most of you won't ever run into this, but each group now has a bandwidth limit every 24 hours. This limit goes into affect for larger files, and is dependent on a number of factors about the group. This change was required by the recent abuse of the shared file system. MESSAGES: - Message display now handle text/enriched messages. - Message archives pages are faster! KNOWN ISSUES: - URLs in automated email messages are still for the old system - Web promotion boxes aren't operational yet. - We are working on creating access to the member detail page from the members bounce page. - The directory says all groups have under 5 members, and this affects the sorting of those pages. We will update this page to include accurate member counts. - Some help pages aren't available yet - Some HTML email won't display correctly in the message archives. - Some parts of My Preferences need clarification and are being resolved. - Chat room names are a little strange currently. We're working on getting simpler, clearer names generated. Thanks in advance for your feedback. Feel free to share it in this group. The Yahoo! Groups Team To unsubscribe: Merger-unsubscribe at egroups.com Merger Help Center: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/info [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From klaatu at primenet.com Sat Jan 20 20:44:25 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:44:25 -0700 Subject: Peg Kerr's Essays Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9900 Peg Kerr, our resident published author (Emerald House Rising; Wild Swans) has been writing a series of essays on Harry Potter. The new kids (recently joined) might want to take a peek for some in-depth discussion and analysis). Haven't seen any comments from Peg recently, as I think her editor has her locked up writing a new book! The message numbers for the essays are as follows: 7 Deadly Sins: Pride: 1553 Envy: 1699 Gluttony: 1878 Lust: 2118 Anger: 2545 Covetousness: 2877 Sloth: 2998 7 Heavenly Virtues: Faith: 3468 Hope: 3660 Charity: ??? sent October 21, 2000 Related essays, possibly also of interest: Loyalty: 788 Secrets: 957 Courtesy and Ambition: 1209 ---------------------------- From vderark at bccs.org Sat Jan 20 20:44:09 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:44:09 -0000 Subject: Quidditch strategy (was Couple of silly detail-questions...) In-Reply-To: <94cmbl+rmub@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ctap+6rof@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9901 > >First, in CoS, Chap. 7, Harry is feeling guilty about missing the > last > >game of the season in SS/PS, resulting in Gryffindor's "worst defeat > >in three hundred years." Doesn't say anything about the score. It was worst because they deserved to win, really really deserved to win, and were robbed of it through no fault of their own. Plus, I see this as just another example of hyperbole in JKR's writing. Three hundred years? Maybe. Just a really really long time, when by golly we sure deserved it and got screwed? More likely. I didn't put it on the timeline because of that logic. > > >We have ample experience with ghosts > >being invisible and speaking, so why not just assume that it was one > >of them? > > Good point! Maybe Ron and Harry don't know ghosts can be invisible? > The only one we see vanishing is Peeves, no? But Harry pretends to be > the invisible Baron and that goes over okay . . . I think you're > right, they should've entertained that possibility. Or we can look at it from the opposite view that the reason they DIDN'T assume ghosts was because what Harry heard and described didn't exhibit characteristics of ghosts. Ghosts typically do no actual damage to living beings. Even in our world, ghosts are not really reported to be dangerous, by which I mean that they don't "rip...tear...kill." They just go about their spectral business and usually leave livings alone. In the HP universe, they interact quite a bit more, but they don't actually do anything to hurt anyone. About the worst they could manage would be a rush of cold. So when Harry hears someone talking about viciously murdering people, he wouldn't think ghost at all. We do think that way simply because we haven't had as much experience with ghosts as he has. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From allyson at ptd.net Sat Jan 20 20:55:47 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 15:55:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] How V got that way (was Future sacrifices?) References: <94cn5m+alu7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <014d01c08323$5ea2de80$59a6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 9902 Touch?!!! I have done just that Amy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't want to stir the bucket with my original posting. I was merely pointing out someone else's opinion of V. Our whole class (yes, I am the teacher) has been exploring Harry Potter in our Reading/Literature class each day. Yesterday, our discussion took us to the level of uncaring and unloving that V possesses. The children in my class are in a residential treatment facility (an alternative education type of setting) and MANY of them have had somewhat the same type of thing happen to them as V has. Parents who abandoned them as babies. We got heavy into that discussion. The girl in question felt that as pointing out a certain set of situations that *could* have led to V's present state of mind/emotions, was in fact defending his behaviors. It was pointed out that the question of why V is the way he is was not answered and their weekend homework was a 1 page essay giving their opinion as to how and why V has become so untouched by love. Thanks! I would also appreciate ANY other ideas for activities. We are finishing CoS on Monday and I have to assign a book project for them. One kid asked me if he could make a 'to-scale' model of Hogwarts. OH HOW PLEASED I WAS THERE!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] How V got that way (was Future sacrifices?) Scott wrote: >I think that the person who said "Don't be making excuses..." is >completely off base. Interesting post, Scott. And Allyson, I am very jealous that you have an excuse to discuss this book at work. I'd make a distinction between making excuses and trying to understand the origins of someone's character and behavior. I would like very much to know how Hitler came to be the way he was. IMO he was probably born a normal child, with certain tendencies but nothing written in stone that *required* him to be one of human history's worst and bloodiest haters. Asking how he ended up that way isn't making excuses--there is no possible excuse--it's an attempt to know how human spirits are shaped and, one hopes, how to keep from growing more haters. You can still believe in demonic possession or in people being born evil, but since I don't I am interested in how V got to be the way he is. "He's just evil" begs the question; it doesn't answer it. You could assign it as an essay topic to your students. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 20 20:51:02 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 12:51:02 -0800 Subject: Tom Marvolo Riddle Message-ID: <3A69FA35.9A6F8F80@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9903 wrote: > Tom Riddle's father was a muggle and his mother a witch. However his > father abandoned Tom and his mother when he learned of her, er, talents. And his mother died after birthing him, living just long enough to name him after his father and grandfather. What you and I just said is what Tom Riddle told Harry and probably what Tom himself had been told as a child. It might not be exactly true. In my universe, one wizarding family lived in the village of Little Hangleton: Marvolo and Miranda Magicker and their daughter Mireille, who was 18 or 19 years old in 1925. Mireille bobbed her hair and wore short dresses and talked about socialism, free love, and collaboration with Muggles, and constantly mocked at her parents's Victorian ideas. When she allowed herself to be seduced by the handsome, charming, son of the Big House, she actually believed that he loved her and she loved him -- when his response to her telling him she was pregnant was not an offer of marriage nor even of running away to live in sin in London or Italy, but merely telling her that that's her problem, not his, she realized that her parents were not quite as stupid as she had thought. (The senior Tom never even knew that his local slut was a witch.) She started to wear her mother's long, voluminous, billowing robes and grow her hair out, and they made plans for the family to go to Brighton on holiday and come back with a baby that they would tell everyone was Miranda's baby. That plan was slightly snagged when Mireille, late in pregnancy, fell ill, and then she died in childbirth due to having no more will to live. The parents, who had raged at Mireille about how much the child would suffer from her plan of being named Tom [Marvolo] Riddle -- a public proclamation of illegitimacy, named the child as she had desired as a way of honoring her last wish. But they did call him Little Volly as his nickname, rather than Little Tommy, as they raised him for his first few years.... It is my understanding that young children often become tremendously angry at their parents/caretakers, a total fury because Mommy won't let them have candy or doesn't make the pain in their throat go away. A furious young child with the kind of magic power that Little Volly had might well have unintentionally killed his caretakers, probably one at a time. That would be how he ended up in the orphanage, but at an age old enough to remember his grandparents and what they had told him about his parents. Which was a cleaned-up Victorian version of the truth. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Jan 20 20:53:05 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:53:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise References: <20010120202351.33198.qmail@web10208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004f01c08322$fd77fdc0$fc2b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9904 Well, I have the four books british edition Bookmark Dumbledore (amazon.de freebie) Audio Book PoA German Audio Book PoA Stephen Fry Book 1-3 in German (well, my brother has - I'll just nick them when he has read them often enough) 2001 Calendar More's not available here. but i think about getting the books in French and American version. Oh, and today I learned that the company that produces the Book Covers is directly in the next town, so I'll ask them if they have any spare ones!!! Nothing else is available here, but they said the merchandies is due to appear in March or so. Yay! ~ Dinah ~ (who honestly thinks that "Harry Potter hamstering" is going to be her new hobby) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From klaatu at primenet.com Sat Jan 20 21:07:18 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 14:07:18 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Popular fanfics by our members... In-Reply-To: <001401c0831a$bb400fe0$013570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9905 What? We shouldn't mention Hermione's comment about "Wild Wizards With Weally Wong Wands"? Heh heh heh... she should know. Siriusly, new kids... These are novel-length and novel-QUALITY Harry Potter adult fan fictions -- well worth reading. Start with "Paradigm of Uncertainty", then "A Sirius Affair" and "The Show That Never Ends". Cassandra's "Draco Dormiens" and "Draco Sinister" can be read before or after or during PoU, as it is a different universe entirely! -----Original Message----- From: Neil Ward [mailto:neilward at dircon.co.uk] I'm sure some of our new members would really enjoy reading the fanfic, by Lori, Penny & Carole and Cassie, over at ParadignOfUncertainty. With this in mind, can I suggest that we don't reveal too many key details of the various fics over there? I know some of us are now very familiar with these stories (including those are writing them, obviously), but it would be a shame to spoil the experience for others. For those who are interested, there is a whole eGroups club (as large and active as this one) for accessing and discussing these fanfics, at:- http://www.egroups.com/group/ParadigmOfUncertainty Neil From ender_w at msn.com Sat Jan 20 21:21:31 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:21:31 -0500 Subject: some questions References: <20010120202351.33198.qmail@web10208.mail.yahoo.com> <004f01c08322$fd77fdc0$fc2b07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001501c08326$f669d220$ebe8183f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9906 I'm writing a fanfiction and I'm have some trouble with details because I'm down here in Georgia and my HP books are 700 miles away, so I was hoping y'all might be able to answer some questions for me. At the moment, I can only think of two, but I'm sure there will be more. 1) In SS did the Sorting hat hesitate at all before sorting Hermione? 2) In PoA, either Sirius or Lupin (I can't remember which one) uses a spell to bind Pettigrew. What magic word does he use? thanks ender From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 20 21:30:42 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:30:42 -0800 Subject: Flamel Book - Deaths - Wizarding Aristo / Population - More Topics Message-ID: <3A6A0381.499E6D72@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9907 Dai wrote: > Hermione finds the reference to Flamel in an "Enormous old book." > The quote from the book places Nick Flamel at 665 the year before > the book was written. Maybe reference books in the wizarding world automatically update their text. Penny wrote: > The first comment in this forum has to do with the Stouffer Lawsuit. > The person suggests that Stouffer's claim has merit Maybe the person is Stouffer herself. Becky Penar wrote: > keeping with the 'Harry is written as a children's book for children' theme, > would JKR really kill off such a major player that children (like us) have > become so attached to?? JKR has said in interview after interview after interview that she never planned HP to be a children's book, but rather was writing the book that she herself wanted to read. It is terrible that Penny's carpal tunnel syndrome is so bad it kept her on ranting on that subject. JKR said in preview interviews for GoF that it is where 'the deaths begin', a phraseology that suggests there will be MANY deaths. She said she's sorry if it's hard on child readers, but a depiction of evil which is not unpleasant is not accurate. I will not be surprised if Harry dies heroically at the end or if Ron dies heroically before the end, but I will be very surprised if Hermione dies. While that is just the impression I get, I can back it up with the argument that Hermione is JKR: killing her would be suicide. Ebony wrote: > UK and Ireland (which seems to be part of the same magical jurisdiction, > judging from Seamus Finnegan and the officiants of the Quidditch World Cup). The location where the World Cup Final is held doesn't have to be one of the competing nations: the Soccer World Cup was held in USA eight(?) years ago. I believe that Hogwarts is the only wizarding school for the island of Britain and its associated Isles including Man and that all wizarding children from that area attend Hogwarts (around 1000 students) but it is not the school for the island of Ireland (all 32 counties) and its associated Isles. I assume that Seamus's parents moved from the island of Ireland to the island of Britain, the same as I assume that Parvati and Padma's parents moved from South Asia to the island of Britain, and Cho's parents moved from Hong Kong to the island of Britain. I do wonder how the magic quill handles children who were born outside of Britain but moved there with their families before age 11? I'd prefer if the quill wrote the names of all members of the entering class in the preceding January, rather than when they were born. That would also avoid the problem of children who had magic when born, but died before age 11. I can't imagine the wizarding folk changing their national boundaries every 20 or even every 40 years just to keep up with Muggle wars and politics (there are people living now in Eastern Europe who have lived their whole lives in the same village and 4 or 5 different countries, starting with Austro-Hungarian Empire, then a nation decreed by Treaty of Versailles, then Nazi German Empire, then a different reconstituted nation that then fell under Soviet dominion....) It is much easier for me to imagine that the wizarding folk draw their national boundaries according to a combination of physical geography and local language. Thus, there is a school for the Island of Britain and another for the Island of Ireland, not one for UK (which includes Northern Ireland) and another for the Republic of Ireland. 1) JKR was right when she said that Hogwarts is the only wizarding school in Britain. 2) When JKR said she writes letters to American children who ask how to apply to Hogwarts that only children from 'UK and Ireland' can attend Hogwarts, she was wrong to say 'UK and Ireland', wrong even to say 'UK'. > Also, Hagrid does make the statement "if we hadn't married Muggles > we'd have died out". I feel pretty sure that it was neither Hagrid nor Arthur who made that statement, but rather Ron. > However, what of the rest of the world? Club member Rita Winston (also > known as Catlady) has some of the *best* theories about magical societies > throughout the world. Thank you. Your praise just now made me think that maybe I should start a text-heavy Web Site and post my wizarding schools essays (and my fanfic) on it. Meantime, they can be retrieved from the egroups archive of this group and of the other group that was created to house our Yahoo archive. > below the poverty line... and I don't mean the Weasleys. Would such kids > in England get letters from Hogwarts, if they had magical ability? What > if they had no home for the letters to be sent to? We've been told that owls can always find the person to whom a letter is addressed, even if only the name is written on the envelope. We've seen that demonstrated by owls bringing mail to Sirius while he is hiding in a cave. I don't doubt that even homeless wizarding ability children get their letters. > What if their parents could not afford the books/robes/wand? Are there > funds available? Or is this kid, magical though they might be, just out of luck? Well, I am QUITE certain that since Dumbledore became Headmaster, he has seen to it that every Hogwarts student gets the books and robes heesh needs, altho' I don't know whether anything was done before Dumbledore's reign. It is possible that how he provides for financially distressed students is by asking all parents & graduates to give the school all outgrown uniforms and no longer needed textbooks for redistribution, so that poor students can be recognized by their shabbiness. It is also possible that he provides for them by kissing up to people like Lucius Malfoy for donations to a scholarship fund. I feel fairly certain that, whether by government grants or private charity, the wizarding world doesn't allow all-wizard families to live in destitution: "We can't let them live like *Muggles*." If a family is homeless, neighbors and relatives would rally around to transform the interior of a tiny shack into a snug cottage, or build the family a hut like Hagrid's. Having magic would help. People would stop by and dump clothing and food on them. The occasional rich employer would give the father or single mother a job, a job consisting of hanging around and saying frequently how grateful they are for the job. Steph Widger wrote: > I wondered how old Hagrid was. I mean, I always pictured him as a > younger wizard, but if it was before our time and draco says it was 50 > years so it was before his fathers time too so if Hagrid was in school > then he and was at least 13 then, (it was his third or second year? can't > remember) then how old is he? Hagrid was 13 in CoS's flashback, and CoS's flashback was 50 years before CoS, so Hagrid was 63 at the time of CoS. CoS was in the 1992-3 school year, and this is the 2000-1 school year, so he's 71 now. He *could* be the same age as McGonagall, if JKR's answer 'McGonagall is a sprightly 70' meant when she did that interview this fall, not in the book. JKR, in that interview, said the wizard folk have longer lifespans than Muggles, and Dumbledore is 150. That would make him 100 in the CoS flashback, and he had auburn hair then, so I deduce that the wizarding folk not only live longer, they age slower. Perhaps witches don't hit menopause until age 70. Then a couple could have 4 or 5 children and raise each one of them as an only child. This relates to attempts to compute number of wizarding children based on the total wizarding population. The fraction of the population which is under 18 would be lower for the wizard folk than for us. Because more (adult) generations of wizard folk are still alive at the same time, thus increasing the fraction of adults. Mike Schubert wrote: > Now, I had always assumed that the Seeker was prohibited from touching the Quaffle. I was wondering about this yesterday. I was having dinner with a friend and asked him: "What happens if someone other than the Seeker catches the Snitch?" Is that a violation of the rules or a way for a Chaser who really wanted to be a Seeker to gain some extra glory? Belinda Susan Rodrigues wrote: > But what I'm curious about is the time frame of wizarding life. > Specifically, if they have such long lifespans, why do they meet their > spouses as teenagers in Hogwarts? We know James and Lily met in > school, as did Arthur and Molly Weasley. How come no one meets their > significant other later in life? After all, they have lots of time to play the field. We DON'T KNOW that everyone meets their spouses as teenagers, just because we know of two or three couples who did. We don't know where Lucius and Narcissa met, nor where the senior Crabbe, Goyle, and Nott met the mothers of their children. We do know that both Bill and Charlie Weasely have finished school, and neither of them has shown signs of having a spouse or fiancee. Those long lives also allow plenty of time for second marriages after widowhood, as it would not be unreasonable for someone 30 or 40 years old to fall for a young, auburn-haired 100-year-old.... wrote: > Have you ever seen the "When I Am An Evil Overlord" list? http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html Pippin wrote: > and the appeal of Shakespear is universal. I've seldom seen such a > degree of excitement in our classes." William Shakespear (1564-1616) > was the author of several plays, including The Tempest, which will be > presented as a student production at Hogwarts this spring. (snip) > Another view was presented by Severus Snape, 15, of Slytherin, who > will be playing the mer/human crossbreed Caliban. Mr. Snape declined > to comment for for the record, but did threaten to turn this reporter > into a toad. I have been wondering lately whether Snape forces a Shakespeare reading club (and other poetry to get drunk on the words of) on his Slytherins.... Flourish wrote: > Remember that Wormtail had to nurse him back to health with snake's > milk (Does anyone else know what's up with that?!?) Here in the Muggle world, to 'milk' a snake is to extract its venom into a beaker, so that it can be used to make antivenin. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 20 21:32:12 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:32:12 -0000 Subject: HP - The Movie O.S.T In-Reply-To: <94cmul+fnbo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94d04s+8hku@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9908 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Amanda wrote: > > So who should do the music? I think Enneo Morricone is dead Ennio Morricone is alive and well (at least he was last I checked) - his latest filmscore was for Brian DePalma's Mission to Mars which came out last spring. - CMC From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 21:33:03 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:33:03 -0000 Subject: some questions In-Reply-To: <001501c08326$f669d220$ebe8183f@satellite> Message-ID: <94d06f+164d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9909 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ender_w" wrote:--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "ender_w" wrote: > 1) In SS did the Sorting hat hesitate at all before sorting Hermione? It doesn't say one way or the other. The passage runs: "Granger, Hermione!" Hermione almost ran to the stool and jammed the hat eagerly on her head. "GRYFFINDOR!" shouted the hat. Ron groaned. > 2) In PoA, either Sirius or Lupin (I can't remember which one) uses a spell > to bind Pettigrew. What magic word does he use? "Please." Just kidding! They bind him (magically) with cords, same as Snape did earlier to Lupin. No words are given; it just says "thin cords shot from Lupin's wand." Sirius also conjures up manacles to chain PP to Lupin and Ron. Hope that helps. Good luck with the writing! Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "I've got two Neptunes here," said Harry after a while, frowning down at his piece of parchment, "that can't be right, can it?" "Aaaaah," said Ron, imitating Professor Trelawney's mystical whisper, "when two Neptunes appear in the sky, it is a sure sign that a midget in glasses is being born, Harry. . . ." --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From vderark at bccs.org Sat Jan 20 21:34:52 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:34:52 -0000 Subject: some questions In-Reply-To: <001501c08326$f669d220$ebe8183f@satellite> Message-ID: <94d09s+u20b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9910 > 1) In SS did the Sorting hat hesitate at all before sorting Hermione? No mention of any delay at all. > 2) In PoA, either Sirius or Lupin (I can't remember which one) uses a spell > to bind Pettigrew. What magic word does he use? The spell is not given. It just says that he raised his wand and a moment later Pettigrew was lying bound and gagged on the floor. But you can invent your own rather easily. Spell words are almost always directly from the Latin. You might want to use "Revincio," pronounced reh-VIHN-see-oh, which means "to bind tightly." That's not canon, of course, but it certainly fits the format JKR uses. As you are working, you might also want to take a peek at the Lexicon for reference. Many fanfic writers do. Every spell in the canon is found in it's encyclopedia of spells, including magic words with etymologies and descriptions of the spell effects. There is a fair amount of other detail information covering all four books that you might find helpful. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 21:45:41 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:45:41 -0000 Subject: To view or not to view (was HP - The Movie O.S.T) In-Reply-To: <94d04s+8hku@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94d0u5+2umt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9911 > > So who should do the music? I think Enneo Morricone is dead > Caius Marcius wrote: > Ennio Morricone is alive and well (at least he was last I checked) - > his latest filmscore was for Brian DePalma's Mission to Mars which > came out last spring. > I'm so glad he's still with us! Okay, then. First choice Morricone, second choice Knopfler (who's influenced by Morricone BTW), 75th choice Williams. CM, I'd like to know why you intend not to see the movie. I have a lot of pros and cons going around my own head but I know when it comes down to it I'll be in line--AND that I'll be disappointed. Heck, I'm eagerly awaiting the first trailer (I almost never go to the movies, though, so I'll probably miss it). I do know I won't let my partner come along. Not that he wants to. But I have hopes that one day he'll read and enjoy the books (it might take having a 7-yo to read them to...), and I don't want them to be spoiled for him. What are other folks' reasons for planning to see it or not see it? Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 20 21:46:16 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:46:16 -0000 Subject: Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard (OT) In-Reply-To: <94cpb2+4jo9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94d0v8+tf5c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9912 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Where'd the word "ban" come into it? No one in that article suggested > *banning* Catcher in the Rye The anti-Potter website that Ebony referenced a few weeks back http://www.worthynews.com/harry-potter.html also never uses the word "ban" - at worst it said "If you treasure God's truth, may I suggest you encourage your children not to read these books?" It did not advocate censorship, or removing them from commercial distribution (which seems to be how some on this NG interpret the anti-HP agenda). While I would not agree that parents should discourage their children from reading HP, I think we would still endorse the right of parents to have some control over what their kids read, watch and listen to. - CMC From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 21:49:57 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:49:57 -0000 Subject: some questions In-Reply-To: <001501c08326$f669d220$ebe8183f@satellite> Message-ID: <94d165+f5a9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9913 I'll be Glad to help.... 1) In SS did the Sorting hat hesitate at all before sorting Hermione? "Granger Hermione" Hermione almost ran to the stool and jammed the hat eagerly on her head. "GRYFFINDOR!" shouted the hat. Ron groaned. (SS, American ed. page 120. PS, British ed. page 132.) I think that it took a "regular" amount of time. I mean that it wasn't noted as being long such as with Neville, or being quick such as with Draco. 2) In PoA, either Sirius or Lupin (I can't remember which one) uses a spell to bind Pettigrew. What magic word does he use? I didn't see this, but perhaps I just missed it. To carry Snape they used the "Mobilicorpus" spell but I didn't see one used on Peter. If you need a binding spell you could use "Petrificus Totalus" which is the spell Hermione uses on Neville on in SS/PS. Hope that in some way this helps! Scott From bkdelong at pobox.com Sat Jan 20 22:07:37 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 17:07:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: some questions In-Reply-To: <94d165+f5a9@eGroups.com> References: <001501c08326$f669d220$ebe8183f@satellite> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010120170656.04f81db0@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9914 At 09:49 PM 01/20/2001 +0000, you wrote: >2) In PoA, either Sirius or Lupin (I can't remember which one) uses a >spell to bind Pettigrew. What magic word does he use? No one moved or made a sound except Pettigrew, whose breath was coming in wheezes as he clutched his chest. Black and Lupin were looking at each other. Then, with one movement, they lowered their wands. "You're the only person who has the right to decide, Harry," said Black. "But think... think what he did...." "He can go to Azkaban," Harry repeated. "If anyone deserves that place, he does...." Pettigrew was still wheezing behind him. "Very well," said Lupin. "Stand aside, Harry." Harry hesitated. "I'm going to tie him up," said Lupin. "That's all, I swear." Harry stepped out of the way. Thin cords shot from Lupin's wand this time, and next moment, Pettigrew was wriggling on the floor, bound and gagged. From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sat Jan 20 22:17:26 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:17:26 -0000 Subject: D/G Fire and Ice/slightly OT/ Ron in fanfic land In-Reply-To: <3A69E852.1927BB8C@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94d2pm+q8l3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9915 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer Flourish wrote: HA! J.K. Rowling herself is much more R/H than I. I mean, come on! You've got the hugs. You've got the rows about Krum. Harry's off mooning after Cho... How can you still hang on? ::weeps:: I am weak. I submit to the greatness of J.K. without question. Hermione and Ron belong together." She never said Hermione and Ron belong together. She's never so much as said Ron will survive Book 5! *chokes quietly to self* Oh, dear, is the ship discussion hoving into view again? Isn't there some sort of FAQ about this with the different arguements for H/H, R/H, H/D and Harry/Hedwig being presented? Penny...? wrote: "As Lori mentioned on PoU just yesterday, her fanfic Hermione believes that she and Ron wouldn't have lasted and that she would have ended up with Harry anyway. Lori went on to note that his death may have delayed H&H's involvement in some ways as well. This is, of course, all within the PoU universe. I maintain that it's perfectly plausible to write a fanfic where H&H are happily involved that doesn't also require Ron to be dead, ignored, evil or anything of that nature. I'd like to take a stab at it someday. I think it can be done." Hey! My Ron is not dead, ignored or evil. Okay, he wasn't in the first series much *looks guilty * more because I find him hard to write than anything else. But he's quite central to DS. I realize now I should have joined HP4GU before writing my story instead of the other way around. Despite having read GoF 5 times, I simply thought "Oh, well Ron likes Hermione. She doesn't seem to like him back all that much. They could date for a while, then he'll get over it. Not a big deal." Had I been on HP4GU, I would have realized that them is fightin' words. But honestly, I find the fanfictions where Ron, upon discovering that Hermione is dating Harry or Draco or what have you, is so distraught that he flings himself off Gryffindor Tower to a horrid death below (and there are MANY), to be far more out of character for Ron than for him to have dated Hermione and moved on. Much has been made of his insecurity on this list, and I do believe he's insecure, by his grasp on self-worth is not *that* tenuous. * my 2 knutes! * Cassie From alw at wilsonllp.com Sat Jan 20 22:56:31 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (alw at wilsonllp.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:56:31 -0000 Subject: OT Amys on the list In-Reply-To: <021a01c08285$62186100$0200a8c0@pressroom.com> Message-ID: <94d52v+3cu8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9916 There's one more - me. I don't think egroups shows it any more, but my last name is Winters. So that makes at least 4 of us! Amy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy Gourley" wrote: > Simon writes: > > Amy Z (have we been on a membership drive aimed solely at people named > Amy? > > We seem to have lots of people around with that name know - causing me > total > > confusion (this is not a problem - it has just amused me how some names > seem > > a lot more represented around here than others)) > > So far 3 Amys that I know of, I think. Myself, Amy Z and Amy Johnston. What > would have been it more confusing if I wasn't married and had my maiden name > of Amy Johnson! > > Amy G From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 20 23:02:32 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:02:32 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: <3A69E4F5.716ECFF8@texas.net> Message-ID: <94d5e8+28gk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9917 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: But the incantation was "Blood of an enemy, forcibly taken." Simply getting some of Harry's blood wouldn't fill the bill, would it? A thought has been brewing for a while. The "re-embodiment" potion/spell/whatever called for the "blood of an enemy, forcibly taken." Harry was very well tied up at the time Wormtail took his blood, and although he was "struggling helplessly" he couldn't put up much of a fight so that nothing was too forcibly taken. I wonder if it was this little detail that (I know, "so we're back to *that* again?" ) caused that curious gleam of triumph in Dumledore's eye. From aichambaye at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 23:10:29 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:10:29 -0000 Subject: O/T on Trixie Belden to Andrea! In-Reply-To: <6e.70725de.279b42ba@aol.com> Message-ID: <94d5t5+5ah7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9918 Sorry to post to everyone, but Andrea, I don't know if I did this right... so email me at aichambaye at yahoo.com to talk trixie (I write Trixie fic and the TB fan club is having a convention!) Heather --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, andeinmn at a... wrote: > In a message dated 1/18/01 8:38:40 AM Central Standard Time, > aichambaye at y... writes: > > > My other major obsession is a book series called Trixie Belden. If > > you know this series (or remember it, as it is out-of-print), you > > should be noticing a trend... children's books with mysteries! > > > > Heather, any time you want a side discussion about Trixie Belden, email me > privately. Trixie was my first big obsession, many decades ago. I still > reread them and enjoy them as much as ever. A much better detective than > that prissy chick with the roadster!! > > Andrea From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 23:12:30 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:12:30 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: <94d5e8+28gk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94d60u+fprh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9919 Trina writes: > A thought has been brewing for a while. The "re-embodiment" > potion/spell/whatever called for the "blood of an enemy, forcibly > taken." Harry was very well tied up at the time Wormtail took his > blood, and although he was "struggling helplessly" he couldn't put up > much of a fight so that nothing was too forcibly taken. I wonder if > it was this little detail that (I know, "so we're back to *that* > again?" ) caused that curious gleam of triumph in Dumledore's > eye. Wait a second. You tie someone up so that he really can't fight you off, and then when you stab him and collect his blood in a vial you didn't do it forcibly because he could hardly move? I wouldn't want to try that line of defense in front of a jury. Ugh, the whole scene makes me ill. I think AD is hopeful that the new connection between Harry and Voldemort will undermine Voldemort in some way. V's curse gave Harry the gift of Parseltongue--Harry's blood may give V . . . what? compassion? vulnerability? we'll find out. Amy Z From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 23:18:27 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:18:27 -0000 Subject: "Unspeakable" Subjects Message-ID: <94d6c3+f9g0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9920 Ho-hum, I leave for the afternoon, come back, and tensions are starting to rise again... Moderators: 1) Politics is an off-limits subject on this list. Is shipping off- limits too? Just say the word and I'll put on my "no-shipper" mask. 2) I wasn't trying to place spoilers for PoU or any other fanfiction in my posts. These are just fundamental aspects of the fic that would be on the book jacket blurb if it is ever published. None of the PoU listmoms (who have all posted to this list within the past 24 hours) have e-mailed me to let me know I was out of line. My intention was to interest new members in a really good fic... the info I mentioned could be in a good book review: the book's theme, unique treatment of a subject, and the setting. Let me know if this is a point of contention, please. Thanks! 3) Is fanfiction an off-limits topic as well? I've plugged fics I like since I joined the list in July... not all or most of them the five most popular. Maybe it's my imagination, but lately I'm starting to get virtual glares whenever I do this. Perhaps there needs to be more clarity in topics that are on-subject and topics that are OT. On another list that Trina and I are on, we use an abbreviation that fits in-between these two extremes, TAN- tangent. That means it is related to the topic, but tangentially so... Trina, perhaps you can explain this better? As I tell my kids, "How can you stick to the topic while writing... if you don't know what the topic is?" Perhaps further delination is in order. "Harry Potter" is a very broad umbrella--let us know which topics are Unspeakable in this forum. Best, Ebony From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Jan 20 23:16:50 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:16:50 -0000 Subject: Confused about Peg's messages Message-ID: <002501c08337$13342bc0$aa65063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 9921 I've been looking for Peg's essays using the numbers that SML gave, but with no success. are they in the yahoo messages, the HPFG archive or the current files ? Thanks Michelle From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sat Jan 20 23:34:16 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:34:16 -0000 Subject: Confused about Peg's messages In-Reply-To: <002501c08337$13342bc0$aa65063e@tmeltcds> Message-ID: <94d79o+mq5b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9922 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Michelle Apostolides" wrote: > I've been looking for Peg's essays using the numbers that SML gave, but > with no success. are they in the yahoo messages, the HPFG archive or the > current files ? > > Thanks > > Michelle Michelle, click on "Messages"; there will be a box at the top on the right that says "Jump to #"; in this box type in 1553, or whichever post you're looking for. It should take you right to it. Email me if it doesn't work for you... Kelley From atelecky at mit.edu Sat Jan 20 23:36:13 2001 From: atelecky at mit.edu (atelecky at mit.edu) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:36:13 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's hold on the Death Eaters (long), was: Re: 101. . . In-Reply-To: <94cnuh+athk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94d7dd+nobb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9923 Voldemort's power over his Death Eaters comes in part from a combination of their fear of him and their own hunger for power, which they believe that he can provide. Malfoy is a good example of a more pragmatic follower of the Dark Lord; he is a Death Eater for his own sake, never seems too misty eyed or in awe of his master though he'll lick his shoes if he has to. (see the scene with the Death Eaters in book 4, and consider that Lucius was the ringleader of the "unfaithful" Death Eaters at the Quidditch match) But quite aside from these "practical" reasons to turn to the Dark Side, some of the Death Eaters in particular seem to follow Voldemort almost as they would a god. And Voldemort himself has come to expect more than merely obedience from his Death Eaters. He speaks of the possibility of their having gone over to Dumbledore like a jealous god having discovered his followers worshipping a foreign idol. He seems to fully expect that his followers should have gone to prison rather than "renounce" him, which in a purely practical sense, for Voldemort the ordinary garden variety Evil Overlord, makes no sense at all: if all of Voldemort's followers had been killed or imprisoned, there would have been no Wormtail to rescue him. Indeed, none of the Death Eaters who did remain faithful were of any use to Voldemort when he needed them most: Crouch and the Lestranges were imprisoned, and those whom we hear of who chose to fight the Aurors rather than come peacefully, certainly did not renounce Voldemort, but they're frankly no use to him dead. But Voldemort is not a cold and rational evil; the boy Tom Riddle spoke not of dreaming of ruling the world, but rather of a day when all wizards would fear to speak his name: high praise to him, for he is deeply vain of his own talents. And unlike a leader of a gang of thieves, Voldemort does not take for granted that once his followers get no further material benefits from their association with him, they will do just as many of them DID: turn their backs on their now impotent ruler and slink back into the shadows. Voldemort does not want to be a mere murderer, or even a mere dictator; he wants both his followers and his enemies to be enough in awe of him that they fear to speak his name. Voldemort could probably have gotten some of Harry Potter's blood, been revived by it, and bided his time for a chance to attack Harry himself later. Turning "anything" into a Portkey and getting Harry to touch it might be prevented by the same magical wards on Hogwarts that prevent Apparating, but even if not, the most important part of Voldemort's plan was not to revive himself physically. Voldemort has to regain control of his former Death Eaters if he is really to restore himself to his full power, and in keeping with the image of himself that he wants to cultivate in their minds--even the image of himself that he wants the entire wizarding world to believe in--he cannot return quietly or secretly. Even for the sake of his own vanity, he cannot. Having been defeated by a mere child and a "muggle loving fool" will diminish Voldemort in all of their eyes, unless Voldemort can prove himself stronger than both of them. He cannot just call the Death Eaters to him; he has to perform a "miracle", as he himself calls it, for them--to restore their "faith", and their fear. Even Harry Potter's capture would not be an act of greatness enough; Voldemort has to remove him from under the very "crooked nose" of "that Muggle-loving fool". Not even only "that Muggle loving fool" but the Minister of Magic, the teachers of Hogwarts, Durmstrang, and Beauxbatons, and all of the students of Hogwarts; Voldemort must appear entirely unafraid of the strength of any other living wizard, and not only Harry Potter. And what better way to do so, than to remove this boy, whom all of the most prominent and powerful wizards in England at least have bent their efforts to protect, from their very midst? Alexandra Telecky atelecky at mit.edu --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Welcome, Joe! > > Joe wrote: > >he could have gotten a sample of Harry's blood (possibly under the > guise > >of some DAtDA lesson so no one would have been the wiser) and brought > it to > >Voldemort. Granted, the latter wouldn't have given Voldemort the > opportunity > >to kill Harry himself, but it has the advantage of allowing Voldemort > to > >return without anyone finding out, at least until "Moody's" true > identity is > >found out or one of the other Death Eaters spills the beans on him. ----- From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 20 23:45:30 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:45:30 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: <94d60u+fprh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94d7uq+dp22@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9924 Trina writes: "A thought has been brewing for a while. The "re-embodiment" potion/spell/whatever called for the "blood of an enemy, forcibly taken." Harry was very well tied up at the time Wormtail took his blood, and although he was "struggling helplessly" he couldn't put up much of a fight so that nothing was too forcibly taken. I wonder if it was this little detail that (I know, "so we're back to *that* again?" ) caused that curious gleam of triumph in Dumledore's eye." Sorry Trina but just because he isn't exactly fighting when it's taken doesn't mean that it isn't forcibly taken.OTOH, Harry didn't have to tie a vile of his blood up with a ribbon to mean that it wasn't forcibly taken. It seems to me that if Harry didn't WANT it taken then it was forcibly taken. Scott Who thinks that Perhaps that gleam in Dumbledore's eyes was simply that he knew Harry's ordeal would allow us infinite conversation until the release of book five. or maybe not... From mschub at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 00:01:46 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:01:46 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's hold on the Death Eaters (long), was: Re: 101. . . In-Reply-To: <94d7dd+nobb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94d8ta+9o55@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9925 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, atelecky at m... wrote: And Voldemort himself has come to expect more than merely > obedience from his Death Eaters. He speaks of the possibility of their > having gone over to Dumbledore like a jealous god having discovered > his followers worshipping a foreign idol. He seems to fully expect > that his followers should have gone to prison rather than "renounce" > him, which in a purely practical sense, for Voldemort the ordinary > garden variety Evil Overlord, makes no sense at all: if all of > Voldemort's followers had been killed or imprisoned, there would have > been no Wormtail to rescue him. Indeed, none of the Death Eaters who > did remain faithful were of any use to Voldemort when he needed them > most: Crouch and the Lestranges were imprisoned, and those whom we > hear of who chose to fight the Aurors rather than come peacefully, > certainly did not renounce Voldemort, but they're frankly no use to > him dead. Something else that always made me think twice was the fact that V lauds Crouch as someone that never renounced him. (I don't have exact quotes on this, so I could be wrong, but I always got the impression this was the way V saw Crouch.) However, as we saw at the trial, Crouch was just as anxious to renounce V as anyone else was, he just didn't get away with it. Sure, he came back to V once he was out of prison and under his own power, but the fact is he TRIED to renounce V, and failed. Interesting that V should regard this as a testament to his loyalty. (Although, like I said, I do recognize that Crouch did wholeheartedly come back to V at the end. However, I was always confused, as I had the distinct impression that V kept hammering on how Crouch had "never wavered". -Mike From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 20 21:34:30 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:34:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron in fanfic land Message-ID: <200101210004.f0L04mC13338@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9926 Cassie wrote: >But honestly, I find the fanfictions where Ron, upon discovering that >Hermione is dating Harry or Draco or what have you, is so distraught >that he flings himself off Gryffindor Tower to a horrid death below >(and there are MANY), to be far more out of character for Ron than >for him to have dated Hermione and moved on. Much has been made of >his insecurity on this list, and I do believe he's insecure, by his >grasp on self-worth is not *that* tenuous. > >* my 2 knutes! * > >Cassie I agree to a point, Cassie (see? I *do* agree with H/H people about some things!), but one of my biggest pet peeves are the H/H fics that don't deal with the Ron issue at all, or deal with it too tidily. To me, the most interesting thing about *any* relationship between any 2 members of the Trio is how it affects the friendship among the three of them. HOWEVER, I still think that it's not quite in Ron's nature to just "move on" that easily. (Of course, I also firmly believe that Hermione, whatever she thinks about Harry, also likes Ron back.) If I am ever brave enough to follow Ebony's lead and write in enemy territory, I want to try to write an H/H fic that deals with the Ron issue to *my* satisfaction, if to no one else's. The only Ron-centered H/H fic I have read which really pleased me is "Friend Enough?" by parker, which shows Ron dealing with the realization that Harry and Hermione are on their way to falling in love with each other. I thought it was very well done (even it it *was* H/H). Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee who is hoping that shipping and fanfic are not going to be declared OT, as that will leave her with very little to say From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sun Jan 21 00:10:22 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:10:22 -0000 Subject: Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard (OT) In-Reply-To: <002201c082fb$71970a20$f6dd4b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <94d9de+r5cm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9927 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > I'll be interested in reaction to this story, particularly those who > interpret any criticism against HP from the so-called Religious Right as a > call for censorship > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63583-2001Jan15.html There's a line in this article - "Our school is 91 percent minority." I laughed out loud for several minutes when I read this. Dai From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sun Jan 21 00:22:08 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:22:08 -0000 Subject: Ron in fanfic land In-Reply-To: <200101210004.f0L04mC13338@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94da3g+dhgt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9928 Kelly wrote: I agree to a point, Cassie (see? I *do* agree with H/H people about some things!), but one of my biggest pet peeves are the H/H fics that don't deal with the Ron issue at all, or deal with it too tidily. To me, the most interesting thing about *any* relationship between any 2 members of the Trio is how it affects the friendship among the three of them. HOWEVER, I still think that it's not quite in Ron's nature to just "move on" that easily. (Of course, I also firmly believe that Hermione, whatever she thinks about Harry, also likes Ron back.) If I am ever brave enough to follow Ebony's lead and write in enemy territory, I want to try to write an H/H fic that deals with the Ron issue to *my* satisfaction, if to no one else's. The only Ron- centered H/H fic I have read which really pleased me is "Friend Enough?" by parker, which shows Ron dealing with the realization that Harry and Hermione are on their way to falling in love with each other. I thought it was very well done (even it it *was* H/H). Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee who is hoping that shipping and fanfic are not going to be declared OT, as that will leave her with very little to say Me too (about the OT business.) I think this points up an assertion I made a long time ago, and that has been made by many others, that it just has a lot to do with your favorite character (and ship preference of course.) I admit I am annoyed by the H/H stories that simply pretend Ron never had any feelings for Hermione, although the ones where he simply moves on don't bother me at all. I just can't see Ron taking quite such a long time (three years or so) to get over a crush he barely even recognized he had (this is assuming it never progresses beyond the GoF point and that Hermione doesn't like him back, which I still believe). I mean, he was certainly annoyed by the Krum thing, but he didn't spend all his time up in Gryffindor Tower trying to impale himself on a bedpost. He's got a crush, but he isn't deranged with love -- this isn't "The Sorrows of Young Werther." At least I hope not, since like I said I don't want Ron throwing himself into the lake. But of course, I *am * horribly annoyed by the numerous R/H fics where Harry isn't there. They can go on for chapters of Ron and Hermione googling at each other and maybe Harry pops up to lend them a quill or something, but most of the time they're just annoyed when he does show up because it interrupts their spooning time. And *that* sets my teeth violently on edge. Which I think has a lot to do with my favorite character being Harry, just like the reverse is true for you with Ron. Obviously, a balanced portrait of the trio is best. And if you can't do that you can always nick a page from Lori's book and kill Ron off... (just kidding about the last bit) Cassie From yael_pou at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 00:37:40 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael-pou) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:37:40 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fanon "ruining" canon References: <94ai6q+dda8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9929 Trina wrote: "I was a non-fanfic reader myself up until last Saturday. Now I am "siriusly" involved with Ebony's TIP and Penny & Carole's ASA. It starts out with "oh, I'll just check it out to see what all the fuss is about" and then, before you know it, You are sucked in and can't escape! Is there a 12-step program for this? " I do hope that you didn't start ASA before reading PoU. Relating to the 'order' thread - the right order would be to read PoU first. I'm quite positive that you have - Just making sure. :) Trina wrote: "I don't think the fanfic is sullying my canon (spelled it right this time! ) vision of the characters or possible events. I consider it more like a parallel universe, telling a "what might have been" in the Wizarding world. " Actually I do think that a good author is capable of shifting your inclinations much more than someone who's just stating his opinion, as elaborate as it is. An artist (as some of the fanfic writers are) is able to touch your heart without bothering to go through your brain, and change the way you feel about certain characters. I know that even though i still despise Malfoy, when i read his lines now, i find them witty, while i used to find it petty and cruel. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aichambaye at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 00:36:13 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:36:13 -0000 Subject: Where is Fanfic and book 5... Message-ID: <94datt+62ja@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9930 Ok first, where is the fanfic posted? I am sure this is a duh question, if you know what I mean. Sorry for being dense! And: What is the news/low-down on book 5? First of all - do we expect it in 2002? or do we know? Also, I am looking for any good juicy speculations on what is going to happen (based more on rumours than what people believe) (not that what people believe isn't fascinating - I've read ALL the messages in the past few days and I am hooked). Holp! Heather M. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 01:22:37 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 01:22:37 -0000 Subject: Where is Fanfic and book 5... In-Reply-To: <94datt+62ja@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ddkt+3g3b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9931 Heather wrote: "Ok first, where is the fanfic posted? I am sure this is a duh question, if you know what I mean. Sorry for being dense! "And: What is the news/low-down on book 5? First of all - do we expect it in 2002? or do we know? Also, I am looking for any good juicy speculations on what is going to happen (based more on rumours than what people believe) (not that what people believe isn't fascinating -I've read ALL the messages in the past few days and I am hooked)." Firstly let me say welcome to the group! (You are new aren't you? We've gotten so many newbies lately that it's hard to keep up.) Secondly don't hold your breath for book five. It is due out in late 2002 or early 2003 (Please someone correct me if I'm wrong). Needless to say it will be awhile, but maybe this allow Jo to revise enough not to have blatant mistakes like the whole wand order thing in GoF. In her own words "It will be done when it's done." Thirdly to address your question about fanfiction, erm...do you REALLY want to know. It is a bit addictive (a bit!?!) as Mike pointed out recently. It is also a lot of fun. Anyway over 15,000 stories can be found at http://www.fanfiction.net I would hardly recommend half of them, though there are some real gems. As to what will happen in book five- Your guess is as good as mine. The title is going to be "Harry Potter and the Order of the Pheonix", but you most likely already knew that! Scott From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Jan 21 01:42:41 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:42:41 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise Message-ID: <65.ec46f5a.279b9891@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9932 I currently own: 1. All four US books (Hardcover); 2. 2 extra paperbacks of SS for lending (to suck them in) - both currently on loan; 3. the pewterish charms (potions bottle, etc.); 4. the SS game (haven't played it); 5. the trivia game (have played it and loved it); 6. Harry Potter Secret Box; 7. Hermione Secret Box; 8. Sticker Book; 9. Body Stickers; 10. Set of Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans with mug; 11. Large Hogwarts Mug; 12. Nimbus 2000 t-shirt; 13. Gryffindor t-shirt; 14. Quidditch cap; 15. Set of Magic Puzzles; 16. Hogwarts Journal; and 17. Throw. Not official merchandise, but I still consider it part of my Harry Potter stuff: 1. Stick that I refer to as my wand; 2. 3 owls (2 enamel and silver and one blown glass) whom I have named Hedwig (the glass one) and Erroll and Pigwidgeon (the silver and enamel ones) who live on a silver plate I call my owlry. I gave my boss a quill pen for Christmas, and now I am envious of him. I believe I will have to acquire one myself. On a somewhat (but not totally) different note -- I visited my sister in Connecticut this Christmas (Jim - she works on Wall Street *and* lives in Greenwich and she is the most Slytherinish Slytherin I've ever met!!). On Christmas Eve we took the train into NYC to see the tree at Rockefeller Center, etc. The highlight of our trip, for me at least, was a visit to the Warner Bros. store. There were huge HP banners on the upper stories of the building and a wonderful window display on the street level. I picked up my photos of them this afternoon and they turned out beautifully! I am one very happy camper right now! I bought my Gryffindor t-shirt and large mug while we were there (at the WB store). My sister bought a Nimbus 2000 t-shirt, a quidditch cap and the trivia game. Next morning I had a package from Santa -- guess what it was?! ;) Having a Slytherin sister is *not* a bad thing! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* 90% obsessed and proud of it ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Jan 21 01:47:58 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:47:58 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise Oops Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9933 Left these off my list: 18. Sorting hat bookmark; 19. 2 paper slip in plastic bookmarks (1 with the pic of the gang on the boat to Hogwarts and 1 with Harry & Ron under the invisibility cloak); and 20. Wall calendar; and 21. Spiral-bound calendar. Love & Light, *Elizabeth* 90% obsessed and proud of it! ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From llusk at rraz.net Sun Jan 21 02:18:02 2001 From: llusk at rraz.net (LORI) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:18:02 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] How V got that way (was Future sacrifices?) References: <94cn5m+alu7@eGroups.com> <014d01c08323$5ea2de80$59a6bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <02bb01c08350$65ec9640$2e2fa2ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9934 Allyson, I teach 7th grade reading and this is a book report I assign every year and it seems to pull in the kids who don't normally do any work at all...they love this. see the attachment. Lori Different drummer? I'm my own band! http://www.geocities.com/happyhuskermom ----- Original Message ----- From: Allyson To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] How V got that way (was Future sacrifices?) Touch?!!! I have done just that Amy!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't want to stir the bucket with my original posting. I was merely pointing out someone else's opinion of V. Our whole class (yes, I am the teacher) has been exploring Harry Potter in our Reading/Literature class each day. Yesterday, our discussion took us to the level of uncaring and unloving that V possesses. The children in my class are in a residential treatment facility (an alternative education type of setting) and MANY of them have had somewhat the same type of thing happen to them as V has. Parents who abandoned them as babies. We got heavy into that discussion. The girl in question felt that as pointing out a certain set of situations that *could* have led to V's present state of mind/emotions, was in fact defending his behaviors. It was pointed out that the question of why V is the way he is was not answered and their weekend homework was a 1 page essay giving their opinion as to how and why V has become so untouched by love. Thanks! I would also appreciate ANY other ideas for activities. We are finishing CoS on Monday and I have to assign a book project for them. One kid asked me if he could make a 'to-scale' model of Hogwarts. OH HOW PLEASED I WAS THERE!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] How V got that way (was Future sacrifices?) Scott wrote: >I think that the person who said "Don't be making excuses..." is >completely off base. Interesting post, Scott. And Allyson, I am very jealous that you have an excuse to discuss this book at work. I'd make a distinction between making excuses and trying to understand the origins of someone's character and behavior. I would like very much to know how Hitler came to be the way he was. IMO he was probably born a normal child, with certain tendencies but nothing written in stone that *required* him to be one of human history's worst and bloodiest haters. Asking how he ended up that way isn't making excuses--there is no possible excuse--it's an attempt to know how human spirits are shaped and, one hopes, how to keep from growing more haters. You can still believe in demonic possession or in people being born evil, but since I don't I am interested in how V got to be the way he is. "He's just evil" begs the question; it doesn't answer it. You could assign it as an essay topic to your students. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] eGroups Sponsor Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com ---------- QUADRARAMA BOOK REPORTS You will be creating a 2 part book report. There will be a written report that will go along with the visual. (a quadrarama) ~Room 1~(setting) VISUAL= Create one setting from the story. (remember setting is where and when a story takes place) If there is more than one setting chose the most important one. ex. If your story took place in a castle...you could show just one room...like the dungeon. WRITTEN Tell what your setting is, and why it is important to the story. Also, tell why you chose it. ~ROOM 2~(conflict) VISUAL= Choose one conflict or problem from the story and illustrate it in this room. Ex. If two characters get into a fight...show the fight or how it was resolved. Your conflict may be a problem.... ex. let's say your character was talking during soccer practice while the coach was talking...as punishment he had to stand on the side while everyone else ran....show how that might be a problem for him. WRITTEN= What is the conflict you chose to show? How is it important to the story? How is it resolved in the story? Was there a better way it could have been solved? ~ROOM 3~(characters) VISUAL= Show 5 things that represent your characters. Or you can show the characters themselves. ex. show things your character likes, dislikes, friends, hobbies, family, boyfriends, etc. WRITTEN= Name your main characters. Tell what you chose to show about them and why you chose it. ~ROOM 4~(scene) VISUAL= Show one scene from the story . (preferably your favorite or one you really dislike) WRITTEN= What scene are you showing...set it up. What is happening? Why did you chose to show this scene? ADDITIONAL WRITTEN SECTION... Write a summary of your story in no more than 5 sentences. Include as much information as necessary but don't go into too much detail. How to make a quadrarama Quadraramas are four triaramas put together. Triaramas are made from 9" square construction paper. Fold diagonally twice. Open. There should be an X fold pattern on the paper. Cut from one corner to the middle on a fold line. Overlap the bottom triangles and glue or staple. Background should be drawn on the top two triangles before gluing. Glue or staple the four triaramas together to make four rooms. Then decorate like you would make a diorama. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 02:18:51 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:18:51 -0000 Subject: More Obession Questions Message-ID: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9935 Ok here are a few more questions that weren't on Dr.MM's quiz but if they had of been my score would have been higher.... 1. Did you listen to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone on BBC radio four on Boxing day? 2. Even though you're not British? 3. Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly dubbed your "wand"? 4. Do you own the Harry Potter pens and alernate them according to you mood? (i.e. Snape when you're feeling nasty or Hermione when you're feeling smart) 5. Have complained to the store clerks about the artwork on HP merchandise? (I was tempted to do this.) 6. When picking a Latin name for your Latin Class made the most obvious choice- Sirius! (of course) 7. Actually ENJOYED tasting the "Bertie Blotts Every Flavour Beans" including the yucky ones. 8. Have found have developed other interest/obessions partly b/c of HP. (i.e. Fantasy Books, Anglophilism etc...) Can anyone else say "yes" to these besides me? Scott From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 03:25:03 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:25:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions References: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008301c0835a$185087c0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9936 Yes, Scott. All but the pens. I haven't been able to purchase much besides the tapes and books yet, but I plan to buy alot when I get a job! :) ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions Ok here are a few more questions that weren't on Dr.MM's quiz but if they had of been my score would have been higher.... 1. Did you listen to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone on BBC radio four on Boxing day? 2. Even though you're not British? 3. Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly dubbed your "wand"? 4. Do you own the Harry Potter pens and alernate them according to you mood? (i.e. Snape when you're feeling nasty or Hermione when you're feeling smart) 5. Have complained to the store clerks about the artwork on HP merchandise? (I was tempted to do this.) 6. When picking a Latin name for your Latin Class made the most obvious choice- Sirius! (of course) 7. Actually ENJOYED tasting the "Bertie Blotts Every Flavour Beans" including the yucky ones. 8. Have found have developed other interest/obessions partly b/c of HP. (i.e. Fantasy Books, Anglophilism etc...) Can anyone else say "yes" to these besides me? Scott eGroups Sponsor Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 02:31:42 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:31:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Where is Fanfic and book 5... References: <94datt+62ja@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <012c01c08352$4b582a40$f149d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9937 ----- Original Message ----- From: > Ok first, where is the fanfic posted? I am sure this is a duh > question, if you know what I mean. Sorry for being dense! > Look in the links section of this egroup's home page...you'll find all the best at the addresses provided. carole From aichambaye at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 02:47:28 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:47:28 -0000 Subject: Thanks for the fanfic info! / book 5 Message-ID: <94dik0+bspe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9938 Thanks to all who responded about fanfic--- Re: Book 5/ Scott's post... Oooohhhh WOE! I had heard 2002 but I didn't want to BELIEVE it, you know?? I am crushed. Saddened. I'll be old and grey before this woman finishes her books. moooooaaaaaaannnnnn. Or at least, I'll have some kiddies to addict. Now I'll have to read fanfic. <|:-) From fefe at fazekas.hu Sun Jan 21 02:49:28 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (=?iso-8859-1?q?Zsolt_Felf=F6ldi?=) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:49:28 -0000 Subject: Where is Fanfic and book 5... In-Reply-To: <94datt+62ja@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dino+pgu2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9939 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, aichambaye at y... wrote: Hi ! > Ok first, where is the fanfic posted? I am sure this is a duh > question, if you know what I mean. Sorry for being dense! I think the best ones are in the Files section of the HP4Ever eGroup or this group, and there are tons of fanfic on fanfiction.net. Maybe you can find every HP fanfic ever created on fanfiction.net, but it is sometimes hard to find something there, and it is hopeless to read all the stories there... 2-300 per day and most of them are just silly teen shipper fics (IMHO), but possibly you can also find some enjoyable fics created by teens. > > And: What is the news/low-down on book 5? First of all - do we expect > it in 2002? or do we know? Also, I am looking for any good juicy I would like to know this too... Anyone, please write us anything you know about this topic. (the worst i've heard is 2003 autumn, i hope it's not true) > speculations on what is going to happen (based more on rumours than > what people believe) (not that what people believe isn't fascinating - > I've read ALL the messages in the past few days and I am hooked). I think you can find all currently known rumors on fan sites (i don't write an URL because fan sites might be illegal :) But i think every "valuable" new rumor is going to be discussed here. > > Holp! I hope i holped you ;) > Heather M. Fefe From aichambaye at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 02:58:12 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:58:12 -0000 Subject: Where is Fanfic and book 5... In-Reply-To: <94dino+pgu2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dj84+kpa3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9940 Thanks for the info... could you email me the GOOD urls (not the kiddy sites or sites that don't get updated etc) that you are thinking of? > I think you can find all currently known rumors on fan sites (i don't > write an URL because fan sites might be illegal :) But i think > every "valuable" new rumor is going to be discussed here. > You definately "holped"! (Holp is a word from another book series!) Heather M. From summers.65 at osu.edu Sun Jan 21 03:04:39 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:04:39 -0500 Subject: The Ron in H/H issue Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9941 Just thought I'd put this in... I do plan to deal more with The Ron Issue with regards to the H/H relationship in the PoU series. Whether it be flashbacks or alternate scenarios or other methods I'm not insensible of the possibilities and even necessities of a more thorough treatment of Ron's impact on my scenario. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "What Women Want" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman *************************************************** From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 03:00:40 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:00:40 -0000 Subject: More Obession Questions In-Reply-To: <008301c0835a$185087c0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <94djco+urkk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9942 Denise wrote: "Yes, Scott. All but the pens." Oh dear, you don't mean to say that you've named yourself Sirius, too!?! Sorry for writing such a short message but I couldn't resist asking this. Scott Who is annoyed b/c his Latin teacher insists on call him Scottus (my name + the masculine singular nominative ending "us"...) and when she does remember to say Sirius she pronounces it Sear-e-US instead of Serious. The above was a (pitiful) attempt to make my message longer and so not to be flamed for a One-liner (as was this) From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 03:14:31 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:14:31 -0000 Subject: META: "Unspeakable" Subjects In-Reply-To: <94d6c3+f9g0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dk6o+6mko@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9943 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " wrote: > > 3) Is fanfiction an off-limits topic as well? I've plugged fics I > like since I joined the list in July... not all or most of them the > five most popular. Maybe it's my imagination, but lately I'm > starting to get virtual glares whenever I do this. > > Perhaps there needs to be more clarity in topics that are on- subject > and topics that are OT. On another list that Trina and I are on, we > use an abbreviation that fits in-between these two extremes, TAN- > tangent. That means it is related to the topic, but tangentially > so... Trina, perhaps you can explain this better? > Yes, I'd like to know more too, as a relative newbie, about what else isn't allowed on the list. I personally don't mind the fanfic discussions. (I'm not reading much HP fanfic because I tend to prefer starting after the author finishes the canon, or if there's stuff that never got resolved in the canon that I wished had been. I'm guessing there'll be another explosion in the amount of fanfic a month or so after book 5 comes out) I like how everyone here is so civil when it comes to shipping and canon vs. fanon issues...because I'm in another fandom where people have completely gotten insane and irritating about these kinds of things. One other thing that comes to mind...I used to be on the Lord Peter list, which had a separate companion list for chattier subjects and tangental ones. Whenever people got too OT they'd go to the other list and continue their correspondance. I think this was also for volume reasons as well as on topic ones, because with egroups you can read the list on the web (as I do because this one is so high volume). Charmian (hope I'm using the META tag correctly. ^_^ <--anime version of smiley) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 03:20:25 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:20:25 -0000 Subject: book 5 In-Reply-To: <94dik0+bspe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dkhp+j8tq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9944 The latest date I've heard is "early 2002." Has anyone heard anything more pessimistic? That's okay, Jo, take your time . . . we'll manage somehow . . . Suffering withdrawal symptoms, Amy Z From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 21 02:22:33 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:22:33 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Unspeakable" Subjects Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9945 Hi Ebony - Speaking for myself, posting plugs for fanfics, the shipper debate, etc. are all on topic and I see no reason to discontinue them. They all deal with the world of Harry Potter, and don't *really* cause hurt feelings and/or give offense. (As much as some of us tongue-in-cheek might say otherwise .) Politics really have nothing to do with the books, and therefore have no place on a Harry Potter Club/Message board. You have a marvelous fic - Trouble in Paradise - go read it now, everyone! - and I would advertise it if you did not! Voicelady, Moderator Team -------------------------------------------------------------- Ho-hum, I leave for the afternoon, come back, and tensions are starting to rise again... Moderators: 1) Politics is an off-limits subject on this list. Is shipping off- limits too? [snip] I wasn't trying to place spoilers for PoU or any other fanfiction in my posts. These are just fundamental aspects of the fic that would be on the book jacket blurb if it is ever published. None of the PoU listmoms (who have all posted to this list within the past 24 hours) have e-mailed me to let me know I was out of line. [snip] Let me know if this is a point of contention, please. Thanks! From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 00:50:12 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 19:50:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Ron in H/H issue Message-ID: <200101210324.f0L3O6C08361@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 9946 Oooo, goody! Looking forward to it, Lori! Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee who is still waiting for someone to write that winter garden scene, or I might have to take a crack at it myself >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Just thought I'd put this in... > >I do plan to deal more with The Ron Issue with regards to the H/H >relationship in the PoU series. Whether it be flashbacks or alternate >scenarios or other methods I'm not insensible of the possibilities and even >necessities of a more thorough treatment of Ron's impact on my scenario. > >Lori > > >************************************************** >Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers > > "There are some places where the road keeps on going." > --Bud Parker > >Last movie seen: "What Women Want" >Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation >Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman >*************************************************** > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 03:24:48 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:24:48 -0000 Subject: Fanfiction.net question Message-ID: <94dkq0+10fes@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9947 Can someone explain to me (offlist is fine so as not to bore people) what the "Harry Potter Author Fics" are? I can't see any difference between this file and the regular "Harry Potter," so I end up having to check both lists for ones I might want to read. ? Amy Z aiz24 at hotmail.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 02:53:57 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:53:57 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Unspeakable" Subjects References: <94d6c3+f9g0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002701c08355$7be8ff60$733570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9948 Ebony, Firstly, politics have been declared absolutely off-limits, because we want to avoid the sort of heated arguments that developed here during the US elections, and a few recent political remarks have caused offence to some members. Re fanfic, there is no point of contention there and I did not intend to imply that there was. The post I made on possible spoiling was not meant as a moderator admin message; it just occurred to me, after reading a few comments (not yours), that discussions could develop on this list that *might* spoil PoU and other fanfics for people who hadn't read them. Responsible plugs and synopses for really good fanfiction are more than welcome, IMO. Quite apart from anything else, it's useful to have a critical filter of the thousands of works-in-progress out there! 'Shipping' posts are loved and hated in equal measure, but I don't think we could ban them. [Side note: I recently uploaded an updated list of acronyms and shorthand often used here, which includes fanfic and shipping terms, so I would hardly want to suggest that we shouldn't discuss these things..] Your mention of 'tangential' posts is interesting, as I would regard many of the posts we label 'OT' as providing interesting 'background' information (for example all those Christmas dinner posts you initiated ), whereas some things are plainly nothing to do with Harry Potter. If OT subjects ramble on for too long, one of the moderators may step in and say 'enough,' but I think we are all agreed that some OT stuff is inevitable and that it can enrich the club and help maintain a friendly atmosphere. Neil (appearing as himself at a theatre near you, playing "blundering oaf who gives people the wrong idea") ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ebony " To: Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 11:18 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Unspeakable" Subjects > Ho-hum, I leave for the afternoon, come back, and tensions are > starting to rise again... > > Moderators: > > 1) Politics is an off-limits subject on this list. Is shipping off- > limits too? Just say the word and I'll put on my "no-shipper" mask. > > 2) I wasn't trying to place spoilers for PoU or any other fanfiction > in my posts. These are just fundamental aspects of the fic that > would be on the book jacket blurb if it is ever published. None of > the PoU listmoms (who have all posted to this list within the past 24 > hours) have e-mailed me to let me know I was out of line. My > intention was to interest new members in a really good fic... the > info I mentioned could be in a good book review: the book's theme, > unique treatment of a subject, and the setting. Let me know if this > is a point of contention, please. Thanks! > > 3) Is fanfiction an off-limits topic as well? I've plugged fics I > like since I joined the list in July... not all or most of them the > five most popular. Maybe it's my imagination, but lately I'm > starting to get virtual glares whenever I do this. > > Perhaps there needs to be more clarity in topics that are on-subject > and topics that are OT. On another list that Trina and I are on, we > use an abbreviation that fits in-between these two extremes, TAN- > tangent. That means it is related to the topic, but tangentially > so... Trina, perhaps you can explain this better? > > As I tell my kids, "How can you stick to the topic while writing... > > if you don't know what the topic is?" > > Perhaps further delination is in order. "Harry Potter" is a very > broad umbrella--let us know which topics are Unspeakable in this > forum. > > Best, > > Ebony > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 21 03:53:55 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:53:55 -0000 Subject: Hermione the housewife? In-Reply-To: <94b54u+gean@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dmgj+nvnq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9949 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > Playing devil's advocate here I think the operative word you used > is choices. What about the theory that the purpose of education is to > give you choices, not take them away. > > > > > What if at some point Ron wants to sit at home and bake cookies? > Would that be so awful? Personally I can't see that he would want to, > (after all, who really would) but that's not the issue. I deplore > those who tell men they are wasting their education (usually its > their degree) staying at home. If they use it to ensure their > children have a better start in life. I don't know whether it makes a > difference one way or the other. I'm the product of two parents who > worked outside the home as well as in it, my dad never stopped > working outside the home!(and I don't think I'm dreadfully damaged by > the experience). > > > I have had tons of education > but who is to say that ten years down the line I won't want to take a > break and stay home with any children I may adopt. > > Ron has a lot of different role models. There's Draco, neither of > whose parents work inside or outside the home. Then there's Hermione, > both of her parents work inside and outside of the home. Then there > are his own parents, where one works in the home and the other works > for the Ministry of Magic. Or will he choose Professor McGonagall or > Hagrid as a role model, live by himself, and teach...... > > Susan My point being....that the discussion on list did not even take into account that the boys/men might want the choice of staying home...or staying home and working caring for kids and the home...... I'm all for strong female role models for kids, but children need strong role models of ALL genders... Doesn't it say something that we can't even think outside the box enough about this to consider fathers as primary caregivers of children? Before someone tells me (again) that I should deal with the real world, I would suggest that HP is not exactly the real world, but rather a created alternate universe... Susan From fefe at fazekas.hu Sun Jan 21 03:55:15 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (=?iso-8859-1?q?Zsolt_Felf=F6ldi?=) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:55:15 -0000 Subject: book 5 In-Reply-To: <94dkhp+j8tq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dmj3+10ket@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9950 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > The latest date I've heard is "early 2002." Has anyone heard anything > more pessimistic? What ? This is the most optimistic one i've ever heard ! Jo said she won't finish it in 2001 November. Then, i think, early 2002 is the best we can expect. I've read in some article that the book "won't be out in November, and might not reach the bookstores for two more years." (not exact quotation) I hope it's not true, but this means late 2003 ! Horrible to write down :( > > That's okay, Jo, take your time . . . we'll manage somehow . . . I hope so... > > Suffering withdrawal symptoms, > Amy Z Me too, Fefe From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 21 04:09:14 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 04:09:14 -0000 Subject: 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) In-Reply-To: <94cnuh+athk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dnda+n1j8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9951 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Welcome, Joe! > > Joe wrote: > >he could have gotten a sample of Harry's blood (possibly under the > guise > >of some DAtDA lesson so no one would have been the wiser) and brought > it to > >Voldemort. Granted, the latter wouldn't have given Voldemort the > opportunity > >to kill Harry himself, but it has the advantage of allowing Voldemort > to > >return without anyone finding out, at least until "Moody's" true > identity is > >found out or one of the other Death Eaters spills the beans on him. > > This topic *has* been discussed recently--check through the last > week's posts for the Crouch/Moody thread--but no one suggested the > blood-taking idea. You are frighteningly resourceful! I hope you > never go over to Voldemort's side or we're all in trouble. > > Amy Z > > ------------------------------------------------------ > "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." > --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone > ------------------------------------------------------ Oh my gosh, I keep telling y'all that you do not really understand evil (trying dealing with batterers for a while). Sneaking Harry's blood would have been effective for the reanimation, but remember Peter has been urging Voldemort to take any old enemy's blood for a while. It would work just as well. Voldemort rejects this. Harry has defeated him three times! That is unbelievable to someone who had the whole wizard world in chaos. To consolidate his power, he MUST prove to his followers that he can conquer this boy......he must do it in as showy and as melodramatic a way as possible. Evil is always melodramatic. But Voledemort must show the Death Eaters that he is once again powerful and in control. He must show them that although he had been defeated by Harry before, he can now easily conquer Harry. He must show them vividly and graphically, by killing Harry in front of them, that he is now, once again in charge. Voldemort, like every evil leader, is also afraid that someone in his ranks (Lucius Malfoy?) will eventually challenge his leadership. He has to watch his back every moment. Remember, some (Karkaroff) have already betrayed him and some have abandoned him (Snape). Then, his plan to kill Harry in a showy manner backfires. Harry lives, and Crouch, Jr. fails. Lots of references are made to possible strife among the good guys (Fudge), but I'm wondering if the next books might also feature internicene warfare among the evil doers.... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 21 04:13:05 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 04:13:05 -0000 Subject: Who did Tom Riddle Jr. (Voldy) Kill In-Reply-To: <94b7pl+scuh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dnkh+r6eq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9952 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > As far as I can tell, there is no specific line which states that the > three Riddles killed in 1944 were Tom/Volde's father and paternal > grandparents. But I strongly feel that that's who they were. Here's > why: > > The three were "elderly Mr. and Mrs. Riddle...and their grown-up son > Tom." That sounds like parent and grandparent to me. We know that in > 1944 Tom Riddle Jr. was just out of Hogwarts, since his time at the > school coincided with the Chamber of Secrets being opened fifty years > before 1992-3. In the stepbrother scenario, the younger person killed > in the Riddle house in 1944, also inexplicably named Tom, would be > about Tom Jr.'s age, but a bit younger. That makes him younger than > 17 or 18, hardly to be described as a "grown-up son." > > I think it's pretty clear that on that fateful summer night in 1944, > Tom Riddle Jr. left Hogwarts, traveled to Little Hangleton, where he > was seen briefly by the gardener, a 28-year-old veteren of WWII named > Frank Bryce. Later he confronted his father, Tom Sr., and his > paternal grandparents, whose last name was Riddle but whose first > names we do not know, in the drawing room of their mansion and did > something to scare them silly before Avada Kedavra-ing them. He lined > them up on the rug and set off to begin his quest for immortality. > > I think it's pretty clear, but it is not stated specifically. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Fascinating. I had assumed it was Dad, Voldemort's father, Dad's new wife, and Dad's new son..let me go back and read From astrothena at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 04:21:03 2001 From: astrothena at yahoo.com (Belinda Susan Rodrigues) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 20:21:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Merchandise Message-ID: <20010121042103.53635.qmail@web12107.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9953 I work at a mall and usually spend my lunch breaks going round to the various stores and checking out what merchandise is out there. There are lots of things that I want to buy, including the posters, some of the figures and the mini snow globes at Hallmark. But seeing as I've spent the last few weeks packing up my belongings and giving away or selling lots of the "junk" that I can't take with me, I've had to limit how much HP merchandise I buy. That said, I did get the HP wall calendar, a few of the ornaments, a light-up pen, two bookmarks, two of the secret boxes, and one of the journals. I was seriously tempted to get the HP daily calendar, especially since I saw it on sale for $3 at the store next to mine, but I had to show some restraint there. I also wanted one of those throws I saw at the WB store, but it was a lot more than I wanted to spend. There is one piece of merchadise that I want but haven't found: stickers! Has anyone seen HP stickers and can they tell me where to find them? Thena ===== Resident Goddess of Thena's Temple www.geocities.com/astrothena/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From brandgwen at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 04:47:58 2001 From: brandgwen at hotmail.com (brandgwen at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 04:47:58 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: <94d60u+fprh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dplu+s6ie@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9954 Amy Z wrote: > I think AD is hopeful that the new connection between Harry and Voldemort will undermine Voldemort in some way. V's curse gave Harry the gift of Parseltongue--Harry's blood may give V . . . what? compassion? vulnerability? we'll find out. In many cultures, blood is closely connected to life. By taking Harry's blood, Voldemort might have managed to connect their lives in some way. In GoF, when Harry is escaping the Deatheaters in the graveyard, Voldemort orders them to stun him, rather than kill him. " 'Stand aside! I will kill him! He is mine!' shrieked Volemort." Chapter 34, Priori Incantatum. It is obvious that he never intended for Harry to leave the graveyard. However it seemed very important that he kill Harry himself, even if he had to murder Harry's stunned, lifeless body. It may be that, now the two share the same blood, Harry cannot be killed by anyone but Voldemort, without Voldemort dying, too. This would explain why Harry had to be delivered to the graveyard - the blood of an already dead enemy would be useless to Voldemort, as it could not give him life. Further, Harry would have to be presented to Voldemort for execution, not only to eliminate an enemy, but to prevent his accidental death. The imfamous gleam could be attributed to Dumbledore's realisation that Harry was immune to assasination by any Deatheater but Voldemort, himself. This solves a big plot problem for JKR. Two Deatheaters (Quirrell and Crouch Jr.) have already managed to infiltrate the borders of Hogwarts. Given the apparent ease of this, why wouldn't Voldemort just send in another? Alternatively, he could capture someone and place them under the Imperious Curse. Such a double agent could have ended the series very quickly, with one swift Avada Kedavra. Now such a person would have to capture Harry and take him back to Voldemort - a much trickier operation, with a huge margin for error/rescue. It forces his Dark Lordship to become personally involved. Gwen. From klaatu at primenet.com Sun Jan 21 04:58:45 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:58:45 -0700 Subject: Peg's Essays now in FILES Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9955 I've put text file for all of Peg Kerr's essays in the FILES section of the club: Just click on the link below: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/ and then click on the folder labeled ESSAYS - Peg Kerr. I've left the message numbers in the files so that anyone can go back to the original message and read the reply threads as well. SML ************************************************ When I am an Evil Empress... #8. I will not be put off by the Hero's rebuffs of my sensual advances. If he doesn't succumb to me, I will not fly into a jealous rage. Instead, I'll shrug my shoulders, send him on his way, and have him picked off as he exits the fortress. ************************************************* From klaatu at primenet.com Sun Jan 21 05:13:26 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 22:13:26 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: <94dplu+s6ie@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9956 Great theory!! That's the one major problem I have with the 7-book-long attempt by Voldemort to kill Harry... Why doesn't somebody just pick him off with a long-range rifle? Surely there are dark wizards out there that might learn how to shoot straight with a Muggle weapon -- or Voldemort could even EMPLOY some Muggle Thugs to do the dirty deed for him. But noooooo.... Voldemort has to do it himself. I though he was stupid to try to kill Harry with the Avada Kedavra curse in the graveyard, seeing as how it backfired so nastily on him the first time he tried it some 13-years ago. But then, Voldemort has apparently NOT read the Evil Overlord's list -- he's a remarkably cartoony figure. SML -----Original Message----- From: brandgwen at hotmail.com [mailto:brandgwen at hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 9:48 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Blood of an enemy It is obvious that he never intended for Harry to leave the graveyard. However it seemed very important that he kill Harry himself, even if he had to murder Harry's stunned, lifeless body. It may be that, now the two share the same blood, Harry cannot be killed by anyone but Voldemort, without Voldemort dying, too. This would explain why Harry had to be delivered to the graveyard - the blood of an already dead enemy would be useless to Voldemort, as it could not give him life. Further, Harry would have to be presented to Voldemort for execution, not only to eliminate an enemy, but to prevent his accidental death. The imfamous gleam could be attributed to Dumbledore's realisation that Harry was immune to assasination by any Deatheater but Voldemort, himself. This solves a big plot problem for JKR. Two Deatheaters (Quirrell and Crouch Jr.) have already managed to infiltrate the borders of Hogwarts. Given the apparent ease of this, why wouldn't Voldemort just send in another? Alternatively, he could capture someone and place them under the Imperious Curse. Such a double agent could have ended the series very quickly, with one swift Avada Kedavra. Now such a person would have to capture Harry and take him back to Voldemort - a much trickier operation, with a huge margin for error/rescue. It forces his Dark Lordship to become personally involved. Gwen. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From lovins at falcon1.net Sun Jan 21 05:10:18 2001 From: lovins at falcon1.net (becky prose lovins) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:10:18 -0500 Subject: Newbie Ramblings In-Reply-To: <980045377.2159.10943.l8@egroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9957 Hi All, I have had a blast reading the digests from this group. This is the first time in two weeks I'm actually caught up on reading (the digests anyway) and thought I'd post my HP history and some ramblings I've been mulling over. I first heard about HP a couple of years ago when CNN did a story about kids having to wait outside the classroom while the teacher read HP to the class because it was EVIL. I grew up in a house where censorship was a four-letter word and was immediately intrigued. When the story went on to talk about wizard school, I knew I'd better pick these up for my future children's library (because *I* wouldn't be interested in reading them myself.) So I bought the first one and let it set on the shelf for a few months, loaned it to my nephew to read, got it back six months later, let it sit another few months while I finished The Lord of The Rings again. Finally, after the birth of my first child this past July, I decided it was time to go ahead and read the first one (you know, just to make sure it would be ok for my son to read later on.) You know the rest. I was hooked. Read the first one in 3 days, went to Walmart, go the only copy of CoS I could find (paperback) and read it in one night while sitting up with my newborn who had a cold. Ordered the last two of Amazon and read them both within the week. Since I've joined this group, i've started reading them again and am partway through PoA. Here are some of the things I'd like to comment on: Goblet of Fire: I've read a few people on the list and a couple of articles about the portkey being a contrived ending for this book. It woulda been so much easier to enchant the dinner plate, etc. Sure, it would have been, but it would have been an awfully boring year at Hogwarts wouldn't it? Ariel could have written Prince Eric a note those days she didn't have her voice, but it would have made the movie a lot shorter. I do like some of the more recently posted theories about Voldemort's timing and reasons for doing it his way. I was surprised when the poll showed that only 12 percent of us like GoF best. It's by far my favorite book. The Movie: I can't wait for it! I wish it could be ten hours long and film every scene written, but I love the idea of seeing the characters on screen and with special effects the way they are today, I'm sure that WB do Hogwarts and the magical world justice. I did like someone's idea to have Patrick Doyle score the movie. He's one of my personal favorites. (I also have a great Patrick Doyle story. If anyone's interested, email me and I'll tell it to you.) Ohio: I voted in the geographic poll and I put myself down as "midwest." Of course, I'm from Southern Ohio and that's a world away from Northern Ohio in every sense of the phrase. Fanfic: I'm a huge fan of Star Trek, Bab 5, Star Wars, LoTR, and lots of other sci-fi fantasy entertainment. In general, I do not read fiction written about these universes or characters unless it is the "real" stuff. I did read Timothy Zahn's (sp?) Star Wars books, but didn't really care for them because I knew that they weren't *really* how things were to turn out if George Lucas were to write them. I haven't and probably won't read any HP fanfic for this reason. The Star Trek novels are different to me because they are officially sanctioned by Paramount and since Star Trek has been written by billions of writers over the years, it doesn't hurt my appreciation for the television series or movies. Other British Literature: Has anyone out there read Ghormenghast (sp?)? My husband and I caught the BBC production of it and fell in love. I've been thinking of picking them up, but they look like a huge undertaking and I don't know anyone who's read them. HP #5: I can wait as long as it takes to get that book. Here's why: As soon as this one comes out, there are only 2 more left, then one and then it's over. The sooner it comes out, the closer we are to being done with the series and I am not looking forward to that day. I also hope that by JKR taking her time, maybe the next book will top 1,000 pages which will take me longer to read and enjoy it. I think I've about run my mouth long enough. I do eventually get around to reading the posts and will reply if anyone wants to respond, just be patient if you don't see me back very often. becky l. minford, Ohio From lovins at falcon1.net Sun Jan 21 05:14:24 2001 From: lovins at falcon1.net (becky prose lovins) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 00:14:24 -0500 Subject: HP Role-playing In-Reply-To: <980045377.2159.10943.l8@egroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9958 Hi all, I saw HP role-playing mentioned on the obsession quiz and was wondering if anyone could tell me a little more about this. I currently play a Star Trek on-line rpg where each person has one character on a starship and contributes to the story-line in turn. I think this would be a great game for the HP universe. Maybe a group of 5 or 6 players each playing a 1st-year at Hogwarts and taking turns writing the story of their first year, then moving along through school with the game..... If one's out there, I'd like to join. If one's not, I'd like to start one up. becky l. (who doesn't read fanfic, but loves to RP) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 05:16:15 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 05:16:15 -0000 Subject: "Unspeakable" Subjects In-Reply-To: <002701c08355$7be8ff60$733570c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <94drav+4j7v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9959 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Neil Ward" wrote: > Responsible plugs and synopses for really good fanfiction are more than > welcome, IMO. Quite apart from anything else, it's useful to have a > critical filter of the thousands of works-in-progress out there! Great, Neil! I'm glad... that's the one area in which Kathy and I know something about. As a children's librarian and a middle school teacher respectively, I think we both qualify as fic UberReaders... we read all kinds of fics from the best to the worst. ;-) If we have another year to wait for JKR's book, then fan writing can fill in the spaces. BTW, does anyone else wish that the movie being released in November was PoA or GoF? I know... I have to be patient, but there'll be no Remus Lupin or Sirius Black. (Shakes head.) > 'Shipping' posts are loved and hated in equal measure, but I don't think we > could ban them. (Cackles wickedly.) That makes me glad. I've some new H/H theory potions bubbling in my cauldron... I would have hated to don my no- shipper mask. > [Side note: I recently uploaded an updated list of acronyms and shorthand > often used here, which includes fanfic and shipping terms, so I would hardly > want to suggest that we shouldn't discuss these things..] (Cackles again.) Oh, I know. I just wanted to set a good example for the newcomers. Thanks for the clarification, Neil... as always, you're beyond cool even if you are an authority-type around these parts. --Ebony From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 05:17:45 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Flourish) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:17:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" Message-ID: <20010121051745.28742.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9960 > She never said Hermione and Ron belong together. > She's never so much > as said Ron will survive Book 5! *chokes quietly to > self* Oh, dear, > is the ship discussion hoving into view again? LOL, I know she hasn't said anything... but you must admit that the books are very vague on any H/H relationship, whereas they definetly show that Ron likes Hermione. Right now, I'm not going to commit to either side - this I have decided I enjoy both H/R and H/H fics and that is that. Harrykins and Hermy-oh-ninny don't belong together any more than Ronny-poo belongs with Hermy-oh-ninny, at least, not until the Creator says so. > because I > find him hard to > write than anything else. I've noted that more fanfic authors find Ron hard to write than any other character. Generally, I think it's hard to keep characters in-character, because you aren't the one who created them; you don't know what Ron's favorite color is or even his favorite food, whether he *really* loves Hermi or not or if it's just puppy love, whatever. And Ron's quite hard to pin down; he can be quite one-dimensional at times, yet you know he's deeper than that - it's always just out of your reach. Er, just out of my reach. Really that whole rant is rather me-centric. Cassie, d'you feel somewhat the same? No offense, but when I've read him in DD/DS he's been always rather angry. (I shouldn't scold you about characterization, though, considering I've never written a fic with Ron as a central part!) > But honestly, I find the fanfictions where Ron, upon > discovering that > Hermione is dating Harry or Draco or what have you, > is so distraught > that he flings himself off Gryffindor Tower to a > horrid death below There's a ton of Hermione-suicide fics, too, only one of which I've ever liked (I honestly can't remember the title/author right now, but it was a stream of conciousness that was beautifully written but didn't give you enough back story to ruin the moment). I do think that our favorite trio, being in Gryffindor, should show a little more backbone than that - after all, in Gryffindor "dwell the brave of heart," and to use a cliche, suicide is the coward's way out. > Ugh, the whole scene makes me ill. Methinks you might be getting a little *too* into the characters here! > However, I > was always > confused, as I had the distinct impression that V > kept hammering on > how Crouch had "never wavered". V probably didn't know that Crouch had wavered - if he hadn't been told, how could he know? Especially if Pettigrew didn't know that Crouch had begged to be released, and he probably didn't - having not been at the trial (as far as I can tell; if someone finds that he was, I apologize) > but one of my biggest pet peeves are the > H/H fics that don't deal > with the Ron issue at all, or deal with it too > tidily. Well, there are some that were written before Book IV came out (pokes at "Shades of Grey" reluctantly) and that's not the writer's fault. Okay, I'll admit that I've written one of these: at that point in time there was no indication that Ron "liked liked" Hermione, and it really didn't need that much tidying (in my - erm - twelve-year-old mind, because I was 12 when I started writing that story). > Ok first, where is the fanfic posted? I am sure this > is a duh > question, if you know what I mean. Sorry for being > dense! Although others have answered your questions about fanfiction.net, it *is* quite daunting to sort through - I'd suggest looking at the Golden Toad Awards (http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/) and looking up the fics that have won at fanfiction.net. Although it's not a guarantee that they're the greatest, these are the "reader's choice" (and I've just realized I'm plugging my/Firebolt's awards, so I'll shut up now). Now, I've a question for you all: Does anyone else agree with me in the thought that Lily might have been, I don't know, less traditional than she is often portrayed? With the (fairly) new information on how wizards live much longer than "regular" folk, it's becoming a possibility that Lily and James were older than just-out-of-Hogwarts when they had Harry. What did she do in the meantime? Could she have lived through the Muggle-bra-burning era without becoming some sort of feminist? Personally, I have an image of a much "stronger" woman than most people describe her as, and I'd like other fans' thoughts. ===== -Flourish/Maddy/Nyx Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ L.ca.us++/-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From brandgwen at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 05:21:29 2001 From: brandgwen at hotmail.com (brandgwen at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 05:21:29 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: <94d60u+fprh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94drkp+qpn9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9961 Amy Z wrote: > I think AD is hopeful that the new connection between Harry and Voldemort will undermine Voldemort in some way. V's curse gave Harry the gift of Parseltongue--Harry's blood may give V . . . what? compassion? vulnerability? we'll find out. In many cultures, blood is closely associated with life. A by-product of taking Harry's blood might be that Voldemort his connected their lives in some way. In GoF, when Harry is escaping the Deatheaters in the graveyard, Voldemort orders that he be stunned. " 'Stand aside! I will kill him! He is mine!' shrieked Voldemort. Chapter 34, Priori Incantatum. It is obvious that Voldemort has no intention of letting Harry go. However, it seems very important that he kill Harry, himself. Part of this might be to show his followers how strong he is, but what glory can be derived from killing a stunned kid? Harry has already proven that he is a match for Voldemort; that game is over. I suspect that, now they share the same blood, Harry cannot be killed by anyone but Voldemort, without Voldemort dying, too. This would explain why Harry had to be delivered to the graveyard in person. The blood of an already dead foe would be useless to Voldemort, as it could not give him life. Further, Harry could not be allowed to live beyond that night, incase someone else killed him, accidentally. The imfamous gleam could be attributed to Dumbledore's realisation that Harry was immune to assasination by any Deatheater but Voldemort. This solves a huge plot problem for JKR. Two Deatheaters have already infiltrated Hogwarts. Given the apparent ease with which this was done, why not send in another? Or, maybe, capture a friendly and put him under the Imperious Curse? Such a double agent could end the whole series with a well placed "Avra Kedavra". By connecting the lives of the characters, JKR forces Voldemort to become personally involved. Thus, the Deatheaters have to try far more tricky operations, such as kidnapping, which have high margins for error and chances of defeat. Gwen. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 21 05:42:18 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 05:42:18 -0000 Subject: 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) In-Reply-To: <94dnda+n1j8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94dsrq+amui@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9962 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > Evil is always melodramatic. Voldemort is always melodramatic. That's because theatrics and self-glorification are his top priorities, higher even than power, and much much higher than making sensible plans to achieve useful goals. But I imagine that evil which is not melodramatic is even more dangerous. People who make computerized financial forecasts from highly mathematical models, and see a loss if they discard the defective airplane parts and a profit if they hide the defects under varnish or something and sell them to people who don't know they're defective, and if it ever troubles their conscience that people will die when airplanes fall out of the sky because of those defective parts, they don't let that conscience affect their behaviour. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 06:08:19 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:08:19 -0000 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) In-Reply-To: <20010121051745.28742.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94ducj+j4rr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9963 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Flourish wrote: > LOL, I know she hasn't said anything... but you must > admit that the books are very vague on any H/H > relationship, whereas they definetly show that Ron > likes Hermione. The first two books were also vague about the person who supposedly betrayed Harry's parents... Sirius was mentioned at the very beginning of PS/SS. I can't remember if he was mentioned at all in CoS. Then all of a sudden, Book #3 is named after him--the Prisoner of Azkaban, and he's been on stage or near it ever since. Dobby did a similar thing, being extremely important in CoS and then integral to the subplot of GoF. As I've said, we H/Hers are steeling ourselves for impending doom... oh, I mean, the Inevitable R/H Pairing. *But*... JKR has thrown me for a loop before. I hope that if Book 5 has any hint of romance at all, she doesn't go for the obvious. I hope she uses it as an opportunity to shock our socks off. Just my opinion. > Right now, I'm not going to commit to either side - > this I have decided I enjoy both H/R and H/H fics > and that is that. All right, Switzerland! I enjoy both R/H fics and H/H fics as well. But I enjoy H/H fics a great deal more. >Harrykins and Hermy-oh-ninny don't > belong together any more than Ronny-poo belongs with > Hermy-oh-ninny, at least, not until the Creator says > so. But that's the cool thing about fanfic. It may be illegal, but to be honest, the writer can do what he or she wants. H/H may never flow from JKR's pen, but as it flows well from the pens of fans, it's a legitimate fandom ship. Also... and this is something I must say... H/H was derived from reading canon. I've been chatting with R/Hers via IM about my story, and I was recently told that I'm H/H because I don't read canon. That amused me. Haven't *all* HP fans and fic writers read canon? > I've noted that more fanfic authors find Ron hard to > write than any other character. Actually, adult Ron for me is a lot easier to write than adult Harry. Writing Ron (and Carole's consulting) has helped to soften his character in my mind. I adored the kid in PS/SS and CoS, started getting a little wary of him in PoA (the whole "Crookshanks ate Scabbers" incident got on my nerves), and by the end of GoF he was my least favorite of the Three. Ron is a fun character to write! I think that of the Three, he's the most people-centered. I really think that if he does win the long- sought after spotlight, he'll be a very approachable and human celebrity figure. While Harry hates his celebrity most of the time (and he didn't *have* to hate it--that's just an aspect of his personality), Ron would enjoy it. Harry and Hermione are a bit more introverted and private in some ways. Ron's interpersonal skills are much better than theirs are... for instance, he seems to interact with the other boys in the dorm more than Harry does. And Hermione doesn't really have much to do with Parvati and Lavender... this is why a majority of fanfic writers give her Ginny as a female friend. The more I write (I've got a couple of projects in the works), the more I'm convinced of my ship preference. > Er, just out of my reach. Really that whole rant is > rather me-centric. Cassie, d'you feel somewhat the > same? No offense, but when I've read him in DD/DS he's > been always rather angry. (I shouldn't scold you about > characterization, though, considering I've never > written a fic with Ron as a central part!) > In Cassie's defense, I think that Ron *is* a somewhat passionate character. That aspect of him is very canonical. A mellowed-out, laid-back Ron is completely OOC. > There's a ton of Hermione-suicide fics, too, only one > of which I've ever liked (I honestly can't remember > the title/author right now, but it was a stream of > conciousness that was beautifully written but didn't > give you enough back story to ruin the moment). I do > think that our favorite trio, being in Gryffindor, > should show a little more backbone than that - after > all, in Gryffindor "dwell the brave of heart," and to > use a cliche, suicide is the coward's way out. I do agree with you. As a teacher, I wish those would be banned. Suicide is always among the top 1-2 causes of teenage deaths. I've lost several peers and young friends this way. Killing off the viewpoint character, unless there is a good reason to do so, is a cop-out in most cases. This is why I don't think Harry will die in Book 7. Or if he dies, he may not stay dead... etc. Kathy (?) wrote: > > but one of my biggest pet peeves are the > > H/H fics that don't deal > > with the Ron issue at all, or deal with it too > > tidily. This never bothered me. Not because I think that Ron is a non- entity. But because despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are first and foremost *friends*. Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone ever considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down? Also, here's another argument I hear often from the R/H side: "Harry is the hero. Harry has everything and Ron has nothing. Harry can't have the girl too." First, the premise of the argument bothers me. I love the Weasley family to pieces and feel that any kid lucky enough to grow up with Arthur and Molly for parents has a lot. Harry would trade all his fame in a heartbeat to be in Ron's shoes. And vice versa. *That* is a problem in the friendship between the two boys that has nothing to do with Hermione. Both of them, in some measure, wants to be the other. Secondly, most of the H/Hers I talk to are bothered by the idea of Ron getting the girl on the basis that "he likes Hermione, and Harry's the hero, so Ron gets the girl." Hermione isn't a possession! She's their best friend, an equal, or as fanfic writer Parker put it so aptly in "Friend Enough?"--"the brains of this operation, the glue that holds us together". Why don't any of these arguments take her feelings into account? R/Hers insist that the Yule Ball events prove that she had tamped- down feelings for Ron. My take on it is that the whole business left a rather nasty taste in her mouth re: both of her best friends. She knows that they both take her for granted. Excuse my frankness, she resents the hell out of that. I rather think she'd also resent the conclusion being drawn that if Ron likes her, she should just fall into his arms. Let's wait to see what Hermione thinks in canon. For all we know, she might very wisely conclude that she'd rather keep her friendships the way they are... and continue to correspond with Viktor Krum. Of course, my take on the interpersonal dynamics of the Trio at the end of GoF is summed up in a fic that Kathy recommended to me and here, "Friend Enough?" by Parker. It's on my favorites page, and I've been singing the praises of this author's three fics for the past week. (Kathy, to quote PoU, "you should know better than to give me such delicious leverage." ;-)) --Ebony (sailing away merrily down the shipper stream on the SS H/H) From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 21 05:42:36 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 23:42:36 -0600 Subject: Ron in fanfic land; "Unspeakable" Subjects References: <94da3g+dhgt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6A76CC.39D53F14@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9964 Hi -- Cassandra Claire wrote: > Hey! My Ron is not dead, ignored or evil. Okay, he wasn't in the > first series much *looks guilty * more because I find him hard to > write than anything else. But he's quite central to DS. > Oops, oops, oops! I didn't mean to imply that you hadn't dealt with Ron, Cassie. I think I was thinking more in terms of what Kathy suggests later: a fic that really delves into how a romance between 2 of them affects the Trio as a whole. I'm not exactly sure what I have in mind but ..... I'm ruminating on it now & again. I have one central scene in my mind ... if I could just figure out how it might play out as a whole story, I'd be in business. > I realize now I should have joined HP4GU before writing my story instead of the > other way around. Despite having read GoF 5 times, I simply > thought "Oh, well Ron likes Hermione. She doesn't seem to like him > back all that much. They could date for a while, then he'll get over > it. Not a big deal." Had I been on HP4GU, I would have realized that > them is fightin' words. > I'm glad to know that there are people like you. My sister is the same way -- not an obsessed HP fan at all, but she remarked recently after I asked her about the infamous "Kiss": "People actually think Ron & Hermione are going to get together? Huh? Hermione likes Harry." Kathy wrote: > (Of course, I also firmly believe that Hermione, whatever she thinks > about Harry, also likes Ron back.) So .... she likes them both? :--) > The only Ron- centered H/H fic I have read which really pleased me is > "Friend > Enough?" by parker, which shows Ron dealing with the realization that > Harry and Hermione are on their way to falling in love with each > other. I thought it was very well done (even it it *was* H/H). Gotta check that one out! > Kathy > AKA Elanor Gamgee > who is hoping that shipping and fanfic are not going to be declared > OT, as that will leave her with very little to say Not off-topic as far as this list-mom is concerned! I'd be in the same boat..... > : But of course, I *am * horribly annoyed by the numerous > R/H fics where Harry isn't there. They can go on for chapters of Ron > and Hermione googling at each other and maybe Harry pops up to lend > them a quill or something, but most of the time they're just annoyed > when he does show up because it interrupts their spooning time. And > *that* sets my teeth violently on edge. Which I think has a lot to do > with my favorite character being Harry, just like the reverse is true > for you with Ron. Obviously, a balanced portrait of the trio is best. I've read a few of those too Cassie, and I agree! It's just a big R/H lovefest, with no real plot at all (because the Hero's been written out of it all together for the most part). I've related so much to Hermione that I can't decide which of H or H is *my* favorite these days. Flourish wrote: > LOL, I know she hasn't said anything... but you must admit that the books are very vague on any H/H > relationship, whereas they definetly show that Ron likes Hermione. > And? So, is it all about which boy *chooses* Hermione? Don't her feelings count? :-) Ron likes Hermione so she's supposed to clap her hands together & say, "Okay, then. Great. Here we go." I still believe most strongly in the FITD (Farmer in the Dell) theory: Ron likes Hermione; Hermione likes Harry; and Harry likes either no one or someone outside the Trio. Hermione's feelings are debatable -- there are valid arguments that can be made either way. But, the sole fact that Ron likes Hermione ain't too determinative in my world. Big deal. Romances are *mutual*! Until we know for sure what Hermione thinks .... either (or any!) pairing is fair game & as likely as any other. UNSPEAKABLE SUBJECTS: I agree with Voicelady & Neil -- Shipper posts & fanfic plugs are decidedly on-topic and welcome. I think Neil was pointing more at me & someone else who did unwittingly give away some plot details of PoU that might not have been the wisest thing in the world. Fanfic plugs are great, but we probably should refrain from having Fanfic Spoilers on this group. > Oh, dear, is the ship discussion hoving into view again? Isn't there some sort > of FAQ about this with the different arguements for H/H, R/H, H/D and > Harry/Hedwig being presented? Penny...? > Yes! It's written. We're trying to figure out where to upload the FAQs that are written at this point & leave inactive links for those still in progress. We're working on it ... we're working .... we're working. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 21 06:42:21 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:42:21 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: <94d5e8+28gk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94e0cd+cfv3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9965 Seems to me that kidnapping someone and tying him up qualifies as physical coercion, i.e. "forcible." Maybe the rejuvenation potion requires blood with a high adrenaline content. :-) marvin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > But the incantation was "Blood of an enemy, forcibly taken." Simply > getting some of Harry's blood wouldn't fill the bill, would it? > > > A thought has been brewing for a while. The "re-embodiment" > potion/spell/whatever called for the "blood of an enemy, forcibly > taken." Harry was very well tied up at the time Wormtail took his > blood, and although he was "struggling helplessly" he couldn't put up > much of a fight so that nothing was too forcibly taken. I wonder if > it was this little detail that (I know, "so we're back to *that* > again?" ) caused that curious gleam of triumph in Dumledore's > eye. From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 06:48:58 2001 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:48:58 -0000 Subject: Hermione the housewife?(OT) In-Reply-To: <94dmgj+nvnq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94e0oq+vc2k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9966 Susan said: > My point being....that the discussion on list did not even take > into account that the boys/men might want the choice of staying > home...or staying home and working caring for kids and the > home...... > I'm all for strong female role models for kids, but children need > strong role models of ALL genders... > Doesn't it say something that we can't even think outside the box > enough about this to consider fathers as primary caregivers of > children? > Before someone tells me (again) that I should deal with the real > world, I would suggest that HP is not exactly the real world, but > rather a created alternate universe... Two personal examples of this, the first one relating to the above quote, the second relating to the thread in general. First, I have two friends who recently had a baby - the wife loves her job and spends HOURS at the office after classes are over (college prof). I don't think she'd ever want to stay home full-time with the baby, simply because her career is too much a part of her life to give up. Her husband, on the other hand, works as a computer tech, and could take it or leave it. He would LOVE to stay home with Luna (their new daughter), but sadly, they can't afford it. It really makes me smile to see that these two have no qualms about voicing their "stay-at-home-dad" opinions. Secondly, as someone who violently relates to Hermione, I have to say that I'm enjoying the "choosing to stay at home doesn't mean you wasted your education" comments. In high school, I was 9th in my class (5th girl), received a National Merit Scholarship (based on Standardized testing, for non-USers), and got a HUGE out-of-state tuition waiver for my college. Got my degree in 3 1/2 years, then got married. And I really want to stay home with my daughter. The main thing that is holding me back is the nagging voice in my head saying, "But everyone expected you to *do* something with your life." Ugh. I really need to find a spine and tell everyone to go to Hades, don't I? ;) Jen (who knows she's horribly off-topic, but can truthfully imagine that there might be a point in time where Hermione would want to stay home...) From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 21 06:55:04 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:55:04 -0000 Subject: Apologies, Re: Another Reminder re: Political Discussions In-Reply-To: <3A698729.E901FA7F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94e148+pec1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9967 I read this and the "gentle reminder" thread and thought, "Huh, what tensions?" Then I realized some offhand cracks of mine were probably the cause (since I don't recall seeing them from anybody else). I beg everyone's pardon, humbly repent, and will strive to find a more socially acceptable way of venting my feelings on that That Which Shall Not Be Discussed. Terribly sorry about that, marvin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi: > > Jeralyn the Voicelady posted a friendly reminder yesterday that all > political discussions (and off-hand remarks!) are not appropriate for > this listserve. I've noticed several messages since then that have > included off-hand remarks, jokes and the like regarding current US > political news. I ... erm ..... share your feelings, but let's respect > the political views of everyone & confine ourselves to HP, shall we? > > > The Moderator Team would prefer not to be forced to start sending people > off-topic message warnings & threatening to institute one-week bans from > the list for this sort of thing. So .... let's all just keep political > opinions, asides, jokes, etc. out of our messages. > > Thanks for your cooperation! > > Penny > The Moderator Team From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Jan 21 07:36:06 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 07:36:06 -0000 Subject: Digest Number 456 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94e3h6+r2ie@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9968 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steph Widger" wrote: > Thanks for the welcome Kelley! I've been reading posts all day trying to get into the swing. I took the obession quiz, and sadly enuf, am only 51% obessed, but I feel that I have an unfair disadvantage of not being in london. My sister mentioned another quiz, how can I get to this one?<<<<<<<<<<<<< You're very welcome, Steph. Oh...someone posted a link days ago, it was for a kid's quiz. Can anyone help Steph with the URL? I know I took this quiz, got 50%, but I don't have the slightest idea where it even is. Steph: > On a different topic, I just finished reading CoS for about the 4th time and picked up on something. (big surprise! Something new every time! :) I wondered how old Hagrid was. I mean, I always pictured him as a younger wizard, but if it was before our time and draco says it was 50 years so it was before his fathers time too so if Hagrid was in school then he and was at least 13 then, (it was his third or second year? can't remember) then how old is he? > @~~~ > Steph<<<<<<<<<<<< I see Rita has already answered this, and I agree with the info she gave; though in my mind, HP's world hasn't reached the year 2001 yet. I think it's still '95 there until OoP comes out. So, according to me , Hagrid's still 65 (and Voldy's still 68.) Steph, if you are interested in dates, years, ages, etc., Steve has a fantastic site with a very informative timeline. http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ I also like the theory that someone put forth that Lucius is a contemporary of Molly and Arthur. This seems very likely to me; Lucius' and Arthur's enmity parallels that of James and Severus, and Harry and Draco. Kelley From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Jan 21 07:37:09 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 02:37:09 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Unspeakable" Subjects Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9969 In a message dated 1/21/2001 2:20:54 AM EST, neilward at dircon.co.uk writes: << Firstly, politics have been declared absolutely off-limits, because we want to avoid the sort of heated arguments that developed here during the US elections, and a few recent political remarks have caused offence to some members. >> Muggle politics (and religion) are also off topic, are they not? Are we still allowed to discuss wizard politics? Love & Light, *Elizabeth* 90% obsessed and proud of it! ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Jan 21 08:35:03 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:35:03 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: copyrights OT References: <948bgm+ghup@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01e801c08385$0d51d650$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9970 > > Well you're probably right, but I do try. I don't guess Napster is > > exactly legal or CD burning (which I don't use) for that matter. > > I wrote the above but it should be "isn't" instead of is... No, then it would be a double negative and mean the opposite of what you meant. You can either say "I don't guess Napster is..." or "I guess Napster isn't", but to use both "don't" and "isn't" then you negate your negative... Simon. From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Jan 21 08:48:34 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:48:34 -0000 Subject: zines again In-Reply-To: <20010119224540.18320.qmail@nwcst285.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: <94e7p2+797a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9971 Alexa, thanks again for answering my questions. Of course, the best quality for a reasonable price would be ideal, regardless of page- size, etc. I would imagine they would sell quite well in this group, though I do suspect that the point Neil and Penny made about WB not sitting still for HP fanzines is quite valid. Regardless of the fact that there would be no profit made on this, and considering the furor over non-profit fansites already, I would expect that this would only invite trouble, much as I would love to have some HP zines. BTW, Penny, I would bet JKR would be flattered by the fan's zeal and passion, and supportive of the authors' efforts, not to mention hugely impressed by their talent. She'd have to be pleased that her characters are so well loved, and that she's inspiring budding writers. WB, on the other hand... > Someone who's printed out DD or DS or PoU or something else fairly standard - how many pages did it come to, and what formatting did you use? <<<<<<<<<<<< I've printed out only a few so far: PoU, Chps. 1-10 of ASA, and DD. 8 1/2 x 11, 1-inch margins, and a fairly big font size. The chapters ran anywhere between 15 or so pages to a few that were really long, maybe 70 pages. The average number of pages per chapter seemed to be about 30. I haven't tried totalling all the pages for any of these, but PoU is easily 400 pages, at least the way it came out for me. Carole, do you have any tips for me? Guess I'll just keep doing it this way. Kelley From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Sun Jan 21 09:14:24 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:14:24 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Self-induced spoilers References: <949mcj+5akv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <02b001c0838a$8c6293d0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 9972 > ...who worries deeply about those poor children who actually pay > attention to the numbers on the spines of the newer Narnia editions > and read The Magician's Nephew before they read The Lion, the Witch > and the Wardrobe I read the LWW first and watched the TV series (I love the music from that series...). Then I read TMN and found it so boring... I was 11 or about that age at the time. I'll have to reread them now. I suppose it's like reading ASA before PoU, or watching Episode 1 before Star Wars. Simon. From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 09:00:35 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:00:35 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Unspeakable" Subjects References: Message-ID: <002601c08388$bcccc060$ce3770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 9973 I wrote: "Firstly, politics have been declared absolutely off-limits, because we want to avoid the sort of heated arguments that developed here during the US elections, and a few recent political remarks have caused offence to some members." Elizabeth said: >>> Muggle politics (and religion) are also off topic, are they not? Politics isn't always OT, but members' expression of their political views has the potential to cause offence if other persuasions appear to be under attack, even if it is in the name of satire. All we ask is that people avoid making (Muggle) political comments that could offend someone who does not share their views. It has to be a ban, though, because 'acceptable' remarks could so easily spawn 'unacceptable' threads. As for religion, I hope everyone will continue to show respect for the diversity of beliefs represented here when making references to religion. >>> Are we still allowed to discuss wizard politics? IMO, if you want to discuss, objectively, the structure of the wizard government or the lack of party politics in the wizarding world, I can't see that causing offence. Perhaps the other Moderators could say how they feel on that. *** In general, please observe the following, taken from our Netiquette message:- "**Be considerate of other members' feelings: If you disagree with someone's message, no matters how strongly, remember to respect the other person's right to his or her own opinion. If you do wish to refute the post, do so gently, by building up your own case, rather than knocking down the other person's. And never attack your fellow club members (name calling, personal remarks, etc)." Thanks! Neil Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From john at walton.to Sun Jan 21 09:51:08 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:51:08 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron in fanfic land: Terminally In-Reply-To: <200101210004.f0L04mC13338@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9974 See, I'm trying to think of the most plausible way to just get RID of Ron in Song of Time. Now that Draco's more than just Evil Nasty Fascist Guy, Ron's just so superfluous. I'm currently tossing between just transferring him elsewhere (perhaps making him a student teacher at Durmstrang...) or killing him off. Anybody got suggestions ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to The last time somebody listened to a Bush, a whole bunch of folks wandered in the desert for 40 years. ======================================== From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sun Jan 21 10:08:35 2001 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:08:35 -0000 Subject: Merchandise Message-ID: <001901c08392$35c76de0$69997ed4@s8u7u5> No: HPFGUIDX 9975 Hi all >There is one piece of merchadise that I want but haven't found: stickers! Has anyone seen HP stickers and can they tell me where to find them? I have quiet a few Harry Potter stickers. I got them from Hallmark. Nick My HP Collection can be viewed at - www.dvd-films.freeuk.com/collection.html From storylady at bards.fsnet.co.uk Sun Jan 21 11:12:51 2001 From: storylady at bards.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Maginnis) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:12:51 -0000 Subject: something else from the graveyard Message-ID: <001401c0839b$401a2a40$1187893e@heather> No: HPFGUIDX 9976 Hi all, well, my first topic :) The blood of the enemy forcibly taken wasn't the the that really caught my attention in Goblet of Fire. It was when Voldemort said that Harry was protected at home by ancient magic invoked by Dumbledore, then later Dumbledore said to alert the others including Arabella Figg (old mrs figg at a guess) the question is, what is this ancient magic, is mrs figg the guardian of it, or is she it? not a normal witch? I'm dying to find out :) hugs Storylady From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Jan 21 11:24:31 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:24:31 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) Message-ID: <9c.aefc396.279c20ef@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9977 I've tried to resist, but just can't. And since I find myself agreeing with Ebony on ship issues (will wonders never cease! ), well, then, I just must ... Most of what I'm replying to was written by Ebony, but she was replying to another post (the author of which is not known to myself) so some of the comments I'm replying to are *not* hers. I have attempted to note those that were stated by someone other by Ebony if I knew that was the case. I have probably made mistakes and for those I apologize. So (bracing myself) here goes!: << As I've said, we H/Hers are steeling ourselves for impending doom... oh, I mean, the Inevitable R/H Pairing.>> Doom? Goodness! I hope it's not that awful for you. I really mean that. I think Ms. Rowlings has her reasons for heading in that direction, and that they'll make sense and possibly be less awful for you when (and if) they happen. < All right, Switzerland! I enjoy both R/H fics and H/H fics as well. > And I enjoy het fics as well as slash fics. I actually find the ones that deal with minor characters most intriguing. [Ebony responded to the following]: >Harrykins and Hermy-oh-ninny don't belong together any more than Ronny-poo belongs with Hermy-oh-ninny, at least, not until the Creator says so.>> And during a bout of aol's evilness I seem to have lost her response. I apologize, but also add: And maybe, just maybe, Harrykins and Hermikins and Ronniekins *all* don't belong together. Or maybe Harrykins and Ronniekins belong together. But it is all up to Ms. Rowlings, whom I believe is the Goddess of the Potterverse. consciousness that was beautifully written but didn't > give you enough back story to ruin the moment). I do think that our favorite trio, being in Gryffindor, ... should show a little more backbone than that - after all, in Gryffindor "dwell the brave of heart," and to use a cliche, suicide is the coward's way out.> There were a lot of quotes in this post, and I'm not entirely sure who wrote that last bit ... I don't want to offend anyone or wrongly state that anyone has said anything, but I do want to reply to this. I agree that suicide is *sometimes* the coward's way out. Under torture or other unbearable situations, I don't believe suicide is cowardly. I have experienced severe clinical depression and I know that it is impossible to react to it in any way that makes sense to people who have not experienced depression and that persons who end there lives under that condition are not being cowardly. It really is that awful to them. I also know that you can't make yourself undepressed or non-suicidal on your own. I do believe that a Gryffindor faced with a life surrounded by dementors might choose to end their life and I would not consider that cowardly. I'm very, very sorry that you've lost peers and friends to suicide. I very recently lost my mother the same way. It hurts in a way that nothing else does. I'm still not in favor of banning anything anyone's written, but I do understand how much it must hurt you. It does occur in folklore/mythology, which is what I believe Ms. Rowlings is writing. It's not a good choice for commercial purposes, but it is actually a traditional theme. In addition, Ms. Rowlings has gently prepared her audience for that eventuality in interviews. Harry's death may not happen, but it is not inconceivable. < because despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are first and foremost *friends*. Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone ever considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down?> Why would he do that? Do you really think it's acceptable for a person to sacrifice their feelings for another in order to let the "Hero" get the girl? I believe this is a mythology/folklore issue. Are there any persons onlist who have made extensive studies of mythology and/or folklore or who have degrees in mythology and/or folklore who can address it? [Aside to anyone who's interested: do the descriptions of Lily sound at least just a bit like descriptions of The Morrigan to you?] I've read almost everything I could get my hands on about the subject, but I still haven't read enough and I don't have a degree, so I can't speak authoritatively. I can say that I think that the "Hero doesn't get the girl/sidekick does get the girl" scenario almost never occurs in folk stories. IIRC from the many stories I've read, either the story is directly and emphatically about the Hero/Heroine winning the heart of the "Object of Desire" or the whole romantic thing is a complete red herring (if it's even there) and the Hero Saves the World/Wins the Throne, etc. and walks away alone, with the romantic liaisons of the sidekicks entirely unknown. The Harry Potter series does not seem to be following the "Hero Wins the Object of Desire" model. I must add to this that I don't believe any Object of Desire exists in Ms. Rowlings' Potterverse. Hermione as written in canon is not flawless (no, she's not!), and Ginny is um, uncertain (yes, she is!) and most Objects of Desire are quite deliberately described as such. <*That* is a problem in the friendship between the two boys that has nothing to do with Hermione. Both of them, in some measure, wants to be the other.> Started to disagree, then noticed the "in some measure," so ... okay. <> True, Hermione isn't a possession. Neither is Harry. Hermione doesn't "get" Harry because she's clever or witty or any of the many other nice things she is. As I tend to identify with Harry, I bristle at the suggestion that *anyone* should "get" him. Poor boy! He's not a prize, you know, he's a person! And to force him to spend the rest of his life with a bossy, know-it-all, stifling person (and that *is* the way Ms. Rowlings has described Hermione so far) is not exactly fair to Harry! Henpecked!Harry totally squicks me. Forcing Harry to spend the rest of his life with anyone is really not very kind to him. I most object to the H/H pairing because I consider it a "shotgun wedding" for Poor Harry. Why can't Harry be independent and happy? I agree that Hermione is one of the brains of the operation. Ron is another brain of the operation, although of a different (but equally important) sort. Harry's blessed to have them both to rely on as friends. <> I don't believe they should, but neither do I believe that Ron's feelings should be taken into account. The books are written from Harry's point of view. Unless Harry is a psychic empath or Hermione declares her feelings directly to Harry, we can't really know what Hermione's feelings are, nor are they the focus of the story. I agree. I believe that's why she'd look elsewhere (even into her adulthood) for a romantic partnership. Absolutely. Just as it's ridiculous to believe that Harry would necessarily fall into Hermione's arms. <> I hope you are not holding your breath. Unless she makes a statement to Harry, I don't believe that we will ever know that with certainty, nor is it particularly important to Harry's story. Even if Hermione does make it evident that she is romantically inclined towards Harry, that does not create an H/H ship. < For all we know, she might very wisely conclude that she'd rather keep her friendships the way they are... and continue to correspond with Viktor Krum.> Indeed she may! Maybe Ron and Harry will be ushers at the wedding. I have a feeling that Harry will not be involved romantically with anyone at the end of the books and that he may have considerable difficulty in forming relationships with anyone, even in the future, unless he gets some really good therapy. After all, the persons who should have been raising him were killed (possibly, although not certainly, because of *who* he is). The persons who are raising him abuse him. The second person in the wizard world who attempted to befriend him turns out to be a nasty, slimy git who bullies him. The person who attempted to kill his parents is still after him. The one teacher he feels sure is evil and out to get him is actually trying to save his life and on the side of the good guys. The person he believes betrayed his parents did not betray them. His friend's pet rat did betray his parents. Harry doesn't exactly have a firm foundation for trusting others. And I'll speak from experience on the issue as well: when the people you most depend on abuse you, forming trusting, loving relationships is extremely difficult. It also makes you very brave. You're very probably hooking Hermione up with someone who's suffering from PTSD. It could be dicey for them both. My ship pet peeve: the odd insistence that any of us are necessarily and unequivocally right in our ship beliefs, regardless of Ms. Rowling's statements and/or canon writings. I must reiterate that I believe that Ms. Rowlings is the Goddess of the Potterverse and I accept her scenario (whatever it may be) in spite of my own hopes and wishes. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 Love & Light, *Elizabeth* 90% obsessed and proud of it! ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 12:03:28 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:03:28 -0000 Subject: 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) In-Reply-To: <94dsrq+amui@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ej6g+9bte@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9978 Susan wrote: > > > Evil is always melodramatic. Rita wrote: > Voldemort is always melodramatic. That's because theatrics and > self-glorification are his top priorities, higher even than power, > and much much higher than making sensible plans to achieve useful > goals. > Your posts put me in mind of the Hitler parallel again and I realized that it isn't only in fiction that an evil leader is brought down in this way. Hitler's war effort (so say some historians) was less than 100% because of his monomania about Jews. Had he put all his resources into winning the war, rather than deflecting so many into the huge machinery of genocide, he could have achieved world domination and then gone on to wipe out the last of the Jews unimpeded. He was brought down in part by his own obsession. So I think you're right. It wasn't just the necessities of dramatic fiction that made Voldemort theatrical to the point of undermining his larger goal. Real people really do that kind of thing. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 12:12:39 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:12:39 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94ejnn+ehrr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9979 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > Great theory!! That's the one major problem I have with the 7-book-long > attempt by Voldemort to kill Harry... Why doesn't somebody just pick him off > with a long-range rifle? Surely there are dark wizards out there that might > learn how to shoot straight with a Muggle weapon -- or Voldemort could even > EMPLOY some Muggle Thugs to do the dirty deed for him. But noooooo.... > Voldemort has to do it himself. I though he was stupid to try to kill Harry > with the Avada Kedavra curse in the graveyard, seeing as how it backfired so > nastily on him the first time he tried it some 13-years ago. But then, > Voldemort has apparently NOT read the Evil Overlord's list -- he's a > remarkably cartoony figure. I take V at his word: he thinks he can kill Harry now because things have changed. He thinks Harry survived the first time because of "a lucky chance" (Lily's sacrifice) and in PS/SS because V couldn't touch him. Now there is no one there to protect him and, as V demonstrates, he can now touch Harry without harming himself. And as others have said, he's supremely arrogant and it's very important for him that the Death Eaters see that he is more powerful than Harry (and Dumbledore). He would be very disappointed if Harry just got killed by a Bludger, or even by one of his own assassins. I think Gwen's theory is interesting though. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 12:17:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:17:32 -0000 Subject: Blood of an enemy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94ek0s+5c5l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9980 Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > the one major problem I have with the 7-book-long > attempt by Voldemort to kill Harry... In defense of JKR's plotting skills, Sister, he has only tried to kill him twice in the two books. OK, three counting Book 1 Chapter 1. CoS is not about V in "real time"--he's nursing his wounds in Albania through the whole thing--and PoA didn't deal with V directly at all (I was so relieved by this and by Sirius's innocence--when I'd read the dust jacket I'd thought "oh for heaven's sake, is someone going to try to kill Harry in EVERY book?"). Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 12:27:54 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:27:54 -0000 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" In-Reply-To: <20010121051745.28742.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94ekka+kl1p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9981 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Flourish wrote: > I've noted that more fanfic authors find Ron hard to > write than any other character. Generally, I think > it's hard to keep characters in-character, because you > aren't the one who created them; you don't know what > Ron's favorite color is or even his favorite food, > whether he *really* loves Hermi or not or if it's just > puppy love, whatever. And Ron's quite hard to pin > down; he can be quite one-dimensional at times, yet > you know he's deeper than that - it's always just out > of your reach. I think Cassie demonstrates just what a terrific job a fanfic writer can do with a character who is quite one-dimensional in the canon. Cassie's talent as a writer notwithstanding (bowing to Cassie, kissing ring), could her Draco be nearly so fascinating if we already knew a lot more about Draco from JKR? JKR has given us someone who, as yet, is extremely nasty for reasons we don't know, and who has no apparent redeeming qualities besides being intelligent and good at Quidditch. A fanfic writer has a lot of room to fill in motivations and complexities without contradicting what The Creator has written. I wrote: > > Ugh, the whole scene makes me ill. Flourish wrote: > Methinks you might be getting a little *too* into the > characters here! I plead guilty. Really, that scene (Harry in the graveyard) reads like a rape to me and I can't read rape scenes without taking a lot of slow, steadying breaths. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 12:38:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:38:36 -0000 Subject: Ron in fanfic land: Terminally In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94el8c+amh6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9982 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > See, I'm trying to think of the most plausible way to just get RID of Ron in > Song of Time. Now that Draco's more than just Evil Nasty Fascist Guy, Ron's > just so superfluous. > > I'm currently tossing between just transferring him elsewhere (perhaps > making him a student teacher at Durmstrang...) or killing him off. Anybody > got suggestions Killing him OFF? Oh, I can't stand it. Heartbreak wherever I turn. (Said in Dobby's voice): You may not touch Wheezy! You is bad, bad wizard! Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 12:45:34 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:45:34 -0000 Subject: Why is your favorite your favorite? Message-ID: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9983 Simon, thanks for putting up the favorite-book poll. It's really interesting to see how this shakes out. I must say I'm surprised thus far. Okay, so here's what I'd like to know from everyone: whichever one is your favorite, why? I'll come back later and give my own answer. Amy Z ...off to work with my favorite in the tape deck ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 21 13:27:31 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:27:31 -0000 Subject: Can you buy Hogwarts uniform? Message-ID: <94eo43+npud@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9984 I saw something on the Fandom HP message board about buying Hogwarts robes...it might have been somebody joking about something, I'm not sure. Does anyone know if Hogwarts robes/cloaks are available to buy? Keith From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 21 13:18:39 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:18:39 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Apologies, Re: Another Reminder re: Polit Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9985 I read this and the "gentle reminder" thread and thought, "Huh, what tensions?" Then I realized some offhand cracks of mine were probably the cause (since I don't recall seeing them from anybody else). I beg everyone's pardon, humbly repent, and will strive to find a more socially acceptable way of venting my feelings on that That Which Shall Not Be Discussed. -------------------------------------------------------------- Marvin - No need to apologize at all. Truthfully, I don't recall that you *did* post on the forbidden topic (ooh, now *that* sounds rather scintillating...). Your posts have been fascinating and entertaining, and you and all of our other new members are very welcome. Voicelady From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 21 13:18:44 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:18:44 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Newbie Ramblings Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 9986 Other British Literature: Has anyone out there read Ghormenghast? -------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! And welcome to our little club! Yes, you'll find that most of us had similar experiences with *inhaling/devouring* these books in the same manner as you did. You are definitely not alone. We understand. As for Gormenghast, my husband and I own the trilogy in one mammoth book. I'm enjoying it, but it's awfully preponderous and slow-going. Mervyn Peake, the author, was *extremely* descriptive and will use an entire chapter describing a room that a scene will take place in before the actual chapter containing the scene! I would have liked to have seen the mini-series on PBS, but my silly area won't show it for some strange reason. Again, welcome to you and all of our new friends. Jeralyn, the Voicelady Moderator Team From ender_w at msn.com Sun Jan 21 14:27:52 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:27:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions References: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> <008301c0835a$185087c0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <004901c083b6$574685e0$15e8183f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9987 Where does one get the pens? ender ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise R" To: Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions Yes, Scott. All but the pens. I haven't been able to purchase much besides the tapes and books yet, but I plan to buy alot when I get a job! :) ______________________________________________ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions Ok here are a few more questions that weren't on Dr.MM's quiz but if they had of been my score would have been higher.... 1. Did you listen to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone on BBC radio four on Boxing day? 2. Even though you're not British? 3. Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly dubbed your "wand"? 4. Do you own the Harry Potter pens and alernate them according to you mood? (i.e. Snape when you're feeling nasty or Hermione when you're feeling smart) 5. Have complained to the store clerks about the artwork on HP merchandise? (I was tempted to do this.) 6. When picking a Latin name for your Latin Class made the most obvious choice- Sirius! (of course) 7. Actually ENJOYED tasting the "Bertie Blotts Every Flavour Beans" including the yucky ones. 8. Have found have developed other interest/obessions partly b/c of HP. (i.e. Fantasy Books, Anglophilism etc...) Can anyone else say "yes" to these besides me? Scott eGroups Sponsor Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From ender_w at msn.com Sun Jan 21 14:34:52 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:34:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: some questions References: <94d165+f5a9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00ad01c083b7$516e2280$15e8183f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 9988 Thanks for all your help, everyone. These answers were very useful. Stay tuned for more questions to come. ender ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott " To: Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2001 4:49 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: some questions > I'll be Glad to help.... > > 1) In SS did the Sorting hat hesitate at all before sorting Hermione? > > "Granger Hermione" > > Hermione almost ran to the stool and jammed the hat eagerly on her > head. > "GRYFFINDOR!" shouted the hat. Ron groaned. > (SS, American ed. page 120. PS, British ed. page 132.) > > I think that it took a "regular" amount of time. I mean that it > wasn't noted as being long such as with Neville, or being quick such > as with Draco. > > 2) In PoA, either Sirius or Lupin (I can't remember which one) uses a > spell to bind Pettigrew. What magic word does he use? > > I didn't see this, but perhaps I just missed it. To carry Snape they > used the "Mobilicorpus" spell but I didn't see one used on Peter. If > you need a binding spell you could use "Petrificus Totalus" which is > the spell Hermione uses on Neville on in SS/PS. > > Hope that in some way this helps! > > Scott > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From zsenya at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 14:45:04 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:45:04 -0000 Subject: Harry in the R/H scenario In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94eslg+q8c4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9989 Just had to delurk in defense of Ron once more... I will say that I am currently working on a sequel to my story (which I've realized now is totally implausible - not from a R/H perspective - but because I think that the gang will have more important things than teen romance to deal with in Book V, but anyway...) and the whole plot is Ron and Hermione figuring out a way to tell Harry whats going on between them and how he'll deal with it (in MY world he's very happy for them because he has the possibility of Ginny to make him happy...of course, he's a teenage boy, so he doesn't realize it just yet...;) I have seen several fics where the Ron/Hermione romance is told from Harry's POV and it's usually him spying unintentionally on them. Usually, as long as he's told at once by one of them, he's happy for his friends. Also, several people wrote that they found it difficult to write Ron! I'm amazed! It's my favorite thing to write! (Or maybe its the little Ron Weasley figuring hanging on the wall above my head here). Maybe its because I live with a 15-year old boy trapped in the body of a 28- year-old man. I don't know. Harry's fun too though. Heck, they're all fun - that's one of the great things about JK Rowling, she's given us great material to work with. From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 14:48:13 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Flourish) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 06:48:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 467 Message-ID: <20010121144813.2086.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9990 Hoo boy! A lot to respond to here ~_^ > Neil (appearing as himself at a theatre near you, > playing "blundering oaf > who gives people the wrong idea") It's okay. You may be a blundering oaf who gives people the wrong idea, but we still love ya, right? ::coughcough:: > My point being....that the discussion on list did > not even take into > account that the boys/men might want the choice of > staying home...or > staying home and working caring for kids and the > home...... Wow, you have a good point there. I rarely read any "After - the - battle" fanfics where one of the three has decided to take an unconventional role (now, this doesn't count Hermione, because I do think that by now that a female doctor/mediwizard isn't quite unconventional) such as a man working in the home. Quite frankly I can see Harry doing something like this (of course, when he's much older, married, etc): he's always been more introverted, not liking the spotlight. While Ron would want to get out there and have his fifteen minutes, Harry would prefer to stay at home and lead a quiet life. Perhaps I think this is more likely because my own father cared for me until I was five, and my mother worked full-time - but it's still a possibility. > There is one piece of merchadise that I want but > haven't found: stickers! Has anyone seen HP stickers > and can they tell me where to find them? I've got one "tattoo" thing from Warner Bros. Store and the Big Sticker Book from Barnes and Noble's. Hope it helps ~_^ > It > may be that, now the two share the same blood, Harry > cannot be killed > by anyone but Voldemort, without Voldemort dying, > too. At first I found this rather hard to swallow - V probably would have thought ahead more - but then, thinking about the fact that he's so secure in his own powers... you may be on to something! This sounds eminently plausible. So now V is not only protected by the countercurse that still lives in Harry's blood (remember, in that chapter he says something to the effect of "it will protect me now," and that was why he wanted *Harry's*) but he's got a great weakness... if Harry is killed he'll be killed himself... that is, if your theory is correct What a humongous problem for the characters! Do you think it might work both ways - V can't be killed by anyone but Harry, otherwise Harry will die? > I've put text file for all of Peg Kerr's essays in > the FILES section of the > club: Thank you! RE Ariel and the lengthening of the plot: You noticed that too?! >But that's the cool thing about fanfic. It may be >illegal, but to be >honest, the writer can do what he or she wants. >H/H may never flow >from JKR's pen, but as it flows well from the pens >of fans, it's a >legitimate fandom ship. Of course! In my mind, at least, that's not just the cool thing about fanfic - it's the *purpose* of it. I can go read all the Ginny/Draco I want (or write it; there seems to be a lack of good Ginny/Draco, apart from your DD/DS and Alicia's series - and AngieJ's, of course) and nobody can tell me that it's a bad thing... well, they can, but I don't have to listen... LOL. >In Cassie's defense, I think that Ron *is* a >somewhat passionate >character. That aspect of him is very canonical. A >mellowed-out, >laid-back Ron is completely OOC. Oh, I totally agree! I'm not trying to dis your writing, Cassie and everyone else because I agree that he needs to be more of a fighter. I was trying to point out that you really only see one side of him in your fic, not that that one side is OOC. >I do agree with you. As a teacher, I wish those >would be banned. >Suicide is always among the top 1-2 causes of >teenage deaths. I've >lost several peers and young friends this way. See, I'm fine with using a suicide in a fic - but only if it's plausible, and only if it's not the whole point of the fic. (Obviously if you're doing a parody of "Romeo and Juliet" there's going to be a lot of suicide, but that's beside the issue here!) I simply think it's completely OOC for our main characters to commit suicide - think of it, perhaps, but not actually follow through. And yes, I've nearly lost one friend to suicide already. I honestly don't think that in fanfiction it should be portrayed as a viable way out, especially not when most of the readers are teens. >Has anyone ever considered that he *might* step >aside or >tamp those feelings down? Although it *is* a possibility, remember that Ron is really, truly stubborn. He might love (platonic, platonic, platonic!) Harry enough to step aside, but then again, he might love Hermione more. Who knows? I'm not sure yet. We'll have to see, and maybe as his character develops in Book 5 I'll be able to figure it out for myself >And? So, is it all about which boy *chooses* >Hermione? Don't her >feelings count? :-) LOL, sorry. What I meant was that there's not really a strong indication that Harry likes Hermione, which is a major roadblock in a relationship - unrequited love! Woo hoo! ::angstfest:: ===== -Flourish/Maddy/Nyx Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ L.ca.us++/-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 21 14:52:04 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:52:04 -0600 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) References: <9c.aefc396.279c20ef@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A6AF794.4A6A0FF1@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9991 Hi -- mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > : because despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and > Hermione are > first and foremost *friends*. Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone ever > considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down?> > > : Why would he do that? Do you really think it's > acceptable for a person to > sacrifice their feelings for another in order to let the "Hero" get the girl? I think Ebony was suggesting that *if* Ron knew (or Hermione told Ron) that her feelings were for Harry and *if* Ron knew or suspected that Harry returned (or *could* return) Hermione's feelings, would Ron not be a big enough person to put his own feelings for Hermione to the side, considering that he is first & foremost friends with them both? IMO, it is not only acceptable but a show that a person is a bigger person than to let petty jealousy stand in the way of a budding romance & a continued friendship amongst the three of them. What I find strange is the implication by some people in the past (not you Elizabeth) that Hermione's feelings don't count. It seems as though some believe that her feelings are irrelevant and what matters is whether or not Ron or Harry likes her. For example, it's possible she doesn't care for either one of them that way. Since her feelings aren't known at this point, that's why these shipper debates can continue. The H/H & R/H shippers (and D/H shippers) can all make a plausible case. > True, Hermione isn't a possession. Neither is Harry. Hermione doesn't "get" > Harry because she's clever or witty or any of the many other nice things she > is. I don't think I've ever seen anyone make that argument (and having prepared the Romance FAQ and the Hermione FAQ (just yesterday), I'd have seen if it they had). > As I tend to identify with Harry, I bristle at the suggestion that *anyone* > should "get" him. Poor boy! He's not a prize, you know, he's a person! And > to force him to spend the rest of his life with a bossy, know-it-all, stifling > person (and that *is* the way Ms. Rowlings has described Hermione so far) is > not exactly fair to Harry! Henpecked! Harry totally squicks me. Forcing Harry > to spend the rest of his life with anyone is really not very kind to him. I > most object to the H/H pairing because I consider it a "shotgun wedding" for > Poor Harry. Oh my! Well ... okay. Gosh, I didn't think of us H/H'ers were so vociferous that we suggest that Harry's feelings don't count. I know I've never suggested such a thing. I definitely disagree strongly, however, with your statement that JKR has *definitely* depicted Hermione as a bossy, know-it-all, stifling person. Please just add IMO if you're going to say something that strong (especially about one of the major characters). I just wrote the Hermione FAQ yesterday (most of it anyway). She starts out that way, sure enough. But, well .... maybe you'll see more redeeming Hermione qualities when you read the FAQ on her. I guess it's safe to say you're not in favor of pairing Hermione up with any of the characters, eh? FYI, it's Rowling, not Rowlings. > Ebony: <> > > Elizabeth: I don't believe they should, but neither do I believe that Ron's > feelings should be taken into account. The books are written from Harry's > point of view. Unless Harry is a psychic empath or Hermione declares her > feelings directly to Harry, we can't really know what Hermione's feelings are, > nor are they the focus of the story. I think you misunderstand what Ebony was saying. She's not saying the canon should necessarily include the POV of either Hermione or Ron. She's saying that for people to argue that Ron likes Hermione & therefore R/H is the way it is, is to disregard Hermione's feelings. Her feelings should be taken into account as much as Ron's feelings (or Harry's feelings). Sounds like you agree with that. I think. > Ebony: <> > > Elizabeth: I hope you are not holding your breath. Unless she makes a > statement to Harry, I don't believe that we will ever know that with certainty, > nor is it particularly important to Harry's story. Even if Hermione does make > it evident that she is romantically inclined towards Harry, that does not > create an H/H ship. Yep. Just like Ron finally declaring his feelings for Hermione doesn't create an R/H ship either. :--) Actually, I can envision more than one scenario where the romances might affect the main plotline. I can also envision Harry learning about Hermione's feelings (if she has them for him) -- either directly from her or perhaps indirectly (he could overhear a conversation for example or someone else could tell him). > My ship pet peeve: the odd insistence that any of us are necessarily and > unequivocally right in our ship beliefs, regardless of Ms. Rowling's statements > and/or canon writings. I can only speak for myself. I'm not so delusional as to think that I'm definitely right about any of my ship predictions. JKR throws a curve ball far too often for anyone to predict anything with any real certainty (IMHO). I, along with several others, have teased that fanfic can create alternative universes for the characters forever, no matter how it ends up at the end of canon (I guess even if Harry dies at the end of Book 7). But, canon predictions are not set in stone by any of us. Not IMO anyway. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 21 14:58:03 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:58:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione the housewife?(OT) References: <94e0oq+vc2k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6AF8FB.17DB0F4D@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9992 Hi -- Jen Piersol wrote: > Susan said: > > > My point being....that the discussion on list did not even take > > into account that the boys/men might want the choice of staying > > home...or staying home and working caring for kids and the > > home...... > I'm all for strong female role models for kids, but > children need > > strong role models of ALL genders... > > Doesn't it say something that we can't even think outside the box > > enough about this to consider fathers as primary caregivers of > > children? I seem to have missed Susan's original post (or the post she was responding to). Anyway .... I have several friends where the woman is the full-time breadwinner and the dad stays at home with the kids. The arrangement works very well. My own husband would go insane rather than stay at home with our children, but my temperment is perfectly suited for this (I think!). In our case, it's not being handled out of preconceived gender roles. > Secondly, as someone who violently relates to Hermione, I have to say > that I'm enjoying the "choosing to stay at home doesn't mean you > wasted your education" comments. And I really want to stay > home with my daughter. The main thing that is holding me back is the > nagging > voice in my head saying, "But everyone expected you to *do* something > with your life." Ugh. I really need to find a spine and tell > everyone to go to Hades, don't I? ;) Yes! I've always excelled academically and plenty of my family members & friends are shocked that I want to stay home with children. Of course, I also want to write some too so I suppose I'm trying to have a little of both worlds. But still. I would tell everyone to go to Hades, Jen! :--) Like Jen, I can imagine circumstances when Hermione might also decide that she wanted to retool her career options & stay home with the kids, just stay home or a variety of other things. It's all about having choices. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 21 15:04:45 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:04:45 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Popular fanfics by our members... References: Message-ID: <3A6AFA8D.3C55F26A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 9993 Hi -- Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > What? We shouldn't mention Hermione's comment about "Wild Wizards With > Weally Wong Wands"? Heh heh heh... she should know. Love the inside joke! :--) > Siriusly, new kids... These are novel-length and novel-QUALITY Harry Potter > adult fan fictions -- well worth reading. Start with "Paradigm of > Uncertainty", then "A Sirius Affair" and "The Show That Never Ends". > Cassandra's "Draco Dormiens" and "Draco Sinister" can be read before or after > or during PoU, as it is a different universe entirely! Thanks for the plug Sister Mary L! I'll add my own plug that everyone should read "Trouble in Paradise" by AngieJ (otherwise known as Ebony) -- available on www.fanfiction.net It's superb ... astounding.... riveting .... I cannot praise it enough! Penny From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 15:24:29 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Flourish) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 07:24:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 468 Message-ID: <20010121152429.48150.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9994 I replied to the previous digest without waiting for this one! Oh, the horrors! Well, you'll get my responses now... and BTW, the stuff Ebony was replying to was written by me, Flourish ^_^ > And I enjoy het fics as well as slash fics. I > actually find the ones that > deal with minor characters most intriguing. Same with me - although there isn't much actual *evidence* of slash in the series, it's very interesting and often more well-written than het. > I agree that suicide is > *sometimes* the coward's way out. Under torture or > other unbearable > situations, I don't believe suicide is cowardly. I probably should have, again, been more specific in what I said, but I honestly didn't think of this at the time. Yes, I agree with this statement. I was trying to say that the way it is often portrayed in these "Hermione-suicides-because-she-is-jilted" fics is often OOC, especially since many of these don't show that she is truly depressed or truly suffering that much. I've found that many simply have her feeling like #*$& so she pitches herself out a window, and not explaining anything beyond that to us. > It > really is that awful to them. I also know that you > can't make yourself > undepressed or non-suicidal on your own. I do > believe that a Gryffindor > faced with a life surrounded by dementors might > choose to end their life and > I would not consider that cowardly. I've never experienced depression, but several people I know have - and know that I realize you *are* in the heart of Hell when that's occurring. I can't imagine it, but I know it must be awful, to put it mildly. > I'm still not in favor of banning anything anyone's > written, but I do > understand how much it must hurt you. Again, I didn't realize that what I wrote came across as wanting to ban anything - especially in my most recent response. I don't believe in censoring anything either; I do wish that authors would think more about what they're writing, but that's not a message I can get out to many people without having them think I'm all for censoring, so... well, I hope that clarifies, as that's the only way I can express what I'm trying to say > Harry doesn't exactly have a firm > foundation for trusting > others. ...and although he may be able to work around this into healthy friendships, he probably won't be able to give his trust fully and have a love that's both give and take. I agree - in canon. In fanon anything goes and it can be quite fun to pretend that Harry's not scarred, but that's another discussion ~_^ ===== -Flourish/Maddy/Nyx Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ L.ca.us++/-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 15:51:44 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 09:51:44 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? References: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00d801c083c6$ae0377c0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 9995 Let's see. All us adult woman who say POA, hmmm. Why could we like that one the best? Grins........ (It's a two word answer--Lupin and Sirius!) ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 6:45 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? Simon, thanks for putting up the favorite-book poll. It's really interesting to see how this shakes out. I must say I'm surprised thus far. Okay, so here's what I'd like to know from everyone: whichever one is your favorite, why? I'll come back later and give my own answer. Amy Z ...off to work with my favorite in the tape deck ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- eGroups Sponsor Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sun Jan 21 15:47:50 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:47:50 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? References: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005301c083c2$2cbc35c0$a82907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9996 Book three is my favorite. First off, because it's not just eh old Voldemort tries to kill Harry thing. Because we get to know much more about Harry's parents - the scene in the Three Brooksticks is just priceless, I was really sitting with Harry under that table and felt with him. Because I was intrigued by Lupin even when he sat snoring in that train compartment. And I really admired him by the time he had praised Neville in front of Snape. Because Sirius and Remus are wonderful characters. The first adults in the book to really have deep, interesting characters, IMHO. And because they are cute beyond belief. Because of the drama behind the whole Sirius-Tragedy. One of the key-sentences here is the mention of Sirius laughing after all the Muggles were killed. What bitterness, what sarcasm. Knowing you have lost everything and being angry won't change a thing. Because Severus showed his crazy side. Mad and drooling, full of bitterness as well. Thinking that your arch-enemy got what he deserved and then learning that it might have been wrong. All your satisfaction gone because you actually feel sorry for him, but won't admit it to yourself. Because of the absolutely surprising end. It was three o'clock in the morning, I couldn't put the book down, wanted to know who or what it was. Gasping "What? No, I don't believe this!!!" so olud that my parents nearly woke up. I stayed up until five o'clock and re-read the whole book on the spot. What can I say, I'm hooked! This book isn't just a good story - this is the book where all the characters became real for me. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch Madness takes it's toll; please have exact change From pbnesbit at msn.com Sun Jan 21 16:15:06 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (Parker Brown Nesbit) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:15:06 -0000 Subject: Fanfic, favourite book, & a question Message-ID: <94f1ua+kebg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9997 I started reading fanfic *because* of the discussions of PoU, ASA, DD, & DS. What people were talking about intrigued me and I just had to see for myself. I'm totally hooked now. I love TIP too, AngieJ! My favourite book is PoA because of the reasons Dinah put forth. It's the first book where Harry really crystallised for me. I currently own only two pieces of merchandise: the Snitch secret box and the Hogwarts crest coffee mug. I haven't bought other thing because of money constraints and some of the stuff I frankly don't like. (Harry looks stupid on most of it!) I can't seem to find the crest poster anywhere & the T-shirts are non-existant here in Charleston, SC. Does anyone know who is selling the posters and shirts besides WB? Parker From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sun Jan 21 16:13:00 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:13:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions References: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> <008301c0835a$185087c0$b7e2fea9@computer> <004901c083b6$574685e0$15e8183f@satellite> Message-ID: <009b01c083c5$aa7404e0$a82907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 9998 > 3. Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly > dubbed your "wand"? Yup. And I'm even considering to buy of those funky glitter wands that belong to those cool tacky witch-costumes, just for the purpose of waving with it while practising all the charms and curses (I know I'm crazy) > 8. Have found have developed other interest/obessions partly b/c of > HP. (i.e. Fantasy Books, Anglophilism etc...) Yes, actually I'm working on getting that accent better. When English is not your native language you automatically listen to native speakers, compare and try to adapt. Well, I dissed the American way of speaking and try to sound a bit more English. Good thing, too, for my ETeacher is fond of that ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead. From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 16:19:34 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 08:19:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Odd Dream Message-ID: <20010121161934.1587.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 9999 Well, I finally had my first Harry Potter dream and it was a neat one, if not extremley bizarre. I dreamt that I was seeing the movie for the first time, and I remember thinking it was good. I remember Harry Potter, in a robe and with his wand and with Hedwig. I remember Ron and Hermoine was in the dream somewhere (dream is a little hard to remember; so much has happened this morning). The odd thing was, that there were little Simpsons "shorts" put into the film every now and then. I remember Harry telling Homer that he had to give a jar of pickles to Snape, but Homer ate all the pickles except for one. I remember a part with Snape was coming up, but something happened and I didn't get to see it. So I came home to write a review of the movie for this group. Um...yeah. The dream seemed so logical at the time, as all dreams do, but when I woke up and thought about it, it seemed extremley disjointed---as most dreams are. From, Anake ===== "A machine becomes human when you cant tell the difference anymore."--Dave Bowman, 2001: A Space Odyssey ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Jan 21 16:42:22 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:42:22 -0000 Subject: HP comic strip sighting Message-ID: <94f3he+g8fb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10000 An honorary membership in HPforGrownups to Lynn Johnston, of For Better or for Worse, one of my favorite strips, for her Harry Potter reference today. Pippin From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Jan 21 16:46:00 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:46:00 -0000 Subject: My "blood of the enemy" post revisited Message-ID: <94f3o8+lqc1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10001 Okay, I must clarify my previously muddled post. Yes, being bound to a tombstone and cut with a rather sharp knife is "forcibly taken." I do not argue against that whatsoever. What I was thinking, but didn't express well (or at all, for that matter) is that that given that this potion seems very complicated and must be done carefully, perhaps there are *degrees* of the force in which the blood of the enemy is taken. Therefore, the blood of an enemy who is bound and can't put up much of a fight (or any at all) causes the potion to work to a lesser degree than the blood of an enemy who put up a pretty good fight to keep it in his own body. That is what I meant, but didn't get across. I suppose I should have given it more thought before whipping it out into the wind. Feel free to shred this theory with wild abandon as well. Trina From particle at urbanet.ch Sun Jan 21 16:47:09 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:47:09 +0100 Subject: A few replies to comments on slash References: <20010121144813.2086.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A6B128D.23415130@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10002 Flourish wrote: > Although it *is* a possibility, remember that Ron is > really, truly stubborn. He might love (platonic, > platonic, platonic!) Harry enough to step aside, Now, really, Flourish, what makes you so sure about Ron's love for Harry being platonic? I actually happen to like Ron/Harry a good deal, when it's done properly. Except half the time it's Slutty!Harry secretly desiring Ron but thinking he can't get him, so going with Draco/Fred/George/All three instead, never realizing that Ron actually loves him back...I don't think that's very in character, personally. There are good ones, though. > > And I enjoy het fics as well as slash fics. I > > actually find the ones that > > deal with minor characters most intriguing. > > Same with me - although there isn't much actual > *evidence* of slash in the series, it's very > interesting and often more well-written than het. > And this would make me the third to concur - sometimes it's that a slashy pairing seems equally/more logical than other, het, pairings. I mean, if Hermione slapping Draco and Draco insulting Hermione was enough fodder to produce the first D/H fics, isn't Harry or Ron's dislike for Draco also enough to make Draco/Harry or Draco/Ron equally 'fanon-legitimate'? ~Firebolt [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From allyson at ptd.net Sun Jan 21 16:53:24 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:53:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? References: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> <005301c083c2$2cbc35c0$a82907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00a401c083ca$ac72a1c0$02a6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10003 Another question I am ready to answer! PoA is my favorite HP book for a number of reasons! I think it explores Harry just a little more and that is what is needed to really make you feel for poor Harry. I gained so much more insight as to who Harry is that I could honestly say I felt his pain a number of times in this particular story-line. I also liked the introduction of Sirius! Next to Hermione, he is my favorite character. We really get to see his true personality come out and in it is his obvious love for his Godson. Not to mention, in my mind he is a hunk!!!!! Nice addition to mental pictures here!!! We were introduced to yet another great character, Prof. Lupin. WOW! What a great addition to the cast of characters in the HP books. I think his praise of Neville in front of Snape was just the icing on the cake in PoA!!!!! Glad to hear he might be making a comeback in one of the next books!!! WOO HOO!!!! The book as a whole was such a griping story-line I couldn't put the book down. I started reading it and like the Energizer Bunny, I kept going and going and going. My husband actually kicked me out of the bedroom so the lights would be turned out and he'd get some sleep that night. I remember going into school the next day, beat off my butt, and excitedly telling my students I finished the book, but in the same breath kicking myself since I wasn't getting GoF until Christmas! As you can tell, I am a new HP fanatic. Truthfully, I had SS for at least a year and a half and I couldn't get into the reading of it at all until one day I started reading it aloud to my class in some downtime between academics and Art and I became hooked. That was probably in the middle of November '00. By the second week of December, I had the first three books read and asked for GoF for Christmas from my MIL who thought I was crazy!!!!! All this HP discussion in the past few days has put me in serious HP withdrawal and I have started reading PoA for a third time, to get myself in the proper frame of mind for when I start it in class!!!! My goodness Book 5 can not come fast enough for me here! I am in need!!!!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Jan 21 16:49:33 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:49:33 -0000 Subject: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <20010121042103.53635.qmail@web12107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94f3ut+7q7t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10004 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Belinda Susan Rodrigues > There is one piece of merchadise that I want but haven't found: stickers! Has anyone seen HP stickers and can they tell me where to find them? > > Thena Try the Hallmark stores. They have variety of HP stickers. Trina From allyson at ptd.net Sun Jan 21 16:55:42 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:55:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions References: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> <008301c0835a$185087c0$b7e2fea9@computer> <004901c083b6$574685e0$15e8183f@satellite> <009b01c083c5$aa7404e0$a82907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00cd01c083cb$323f8fc0$02a6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10005 3. Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly dubbed your "wand"? SURE DO! My light up Norbert the Norwegian Ridgeback pen on my desk in school. The kids in my class think I am absolutely off my rocker since when we group to do Reading/Literature, I put on the Harry Potter Glasses, hold my precious pen, and go to town! I get so into it they laugh at me sometimes!!!!! They love it though and many of them love reading because of HP!!!!!!! LONG LIVE HARRY! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From allyson at ptd.net Sun Jan 21 16:56:53 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:56:53 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP comic strip sighting References: <94f3he+g8fb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00d201c083cb$3a024180$02a6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10006 I cut it out to hang on my Harry Potter Bulletin Board!!!!! I am sure a lot of my coworkers will have it in my mailbox tomorrow, too!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: foxmoth at qnet.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 11:42 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP comic strip sighting An honorary membership in HPforGrownups to Lynn Johnston, of For Better or for Worse, one of my favorite strips, for her Harry Potter reference today. Pippin To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 21 16:59:22 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:59:22 -0000 Subject: fanfic Message-ID: <94f4ha+mcpp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10007 So far I think I'm going to eschew HP fanfic because IMO it really can skew one's perception of character. After Star Wars ep 1 I became obsessed for a while with the "Sith Academy" universe of fic/slash, even to point of writing a story, and I frankly can't look at any of the Ep 1 characters without cracking up now. Of course, in the case of Ep 1 that's no great loss. Now, something for H shippers to think about.... Er, or not. This isn't the most positive of visions. ***** Assuming HP survives until adulthood, deafeats big V, and doesn't lose his magic or destroy the wizarding world in the process, he's going to be the biggest celebrity in the wizzing world (hrm...maybe that's not such a good euphemism). Anyway, he's going to 18 and more popular than Krum. He's going to be a cross between Wilt Chamberlain and Audy Murphy. In short, by achieving all this success at the age when his hormones are pumping their hardest, he's going to have an unprecented opportunity and motive to play the field...and he will. Why? Because in spite of defeating V, he's going to have the subconcious ghosts and resentments of his muggle upbringing to purge. All the deprivation and denial-of-affection he suffered will return to haunt him at an age when people tend to be very emotionally (and, er, physically) needy anyway. And he'll overcompensate not in the V-style "conquer the world way," but in traditional muggle fashion. He'll leave little HP Jrs all over the world. Get addicted to fairy dust. He'll wreck hotel rooms. Crash his Firebolt Mk V into a whomping willow. Hermione and Ron will have to stage an intervention. Ultimately, because of his importance, he'll be offered a sinecure at the MoM division of sports where he'll spend his days rehashing the past with Quidditch stars who are famous enough to appreciate his experience, until some sweet young thing half his age lassos him into a posh wedding. Once the first baby is born, HP will invite Ron and Hermione over to visit; the old gang-of-three friendship will be reborn now that everybody has grown up and settled down. But the young thing will be jealous of the past and whip Harry into staying away from his old buddies. For a while. But then Harry will get fed up with it, file for divorce, and lead the life of the single celebrity in retirement. The end. ******* Or not. That's just my version of the "Human, all too Human" epilogue... :-) marvin From randujar at wellesley.edu Sun Jan 21 17:13:13 2001 From: randujar at wellesley.edu (Rosa M. Andujar) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:13:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] something else from the graveyard In-Reply-To: <001401c0839b$401a2a40$1187893e@heather> References: <001401c0839b$401a2a40$1187893e@heather> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10008 HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: >Hi all, > well, my first topic :) >The blood of the enemy forcibly taken wasn't the the that really caught my >attention in Goblet of Fire. It was when Voldemort said that Harry was >protected at home by ancient magic invoked by Dumbledore, then later >Dumbledore said to alert the others including Arabella Figg (old mrs figg >at >a guess) the question is, what is this ancient magic, is mrs figg the >guardian of it, or is she it? not a normal witch? I'm dying to find out :) > >hugs > Storylady This also caught my attention. I immediately remembered the time when Harry first stepped foot in the Weasley's tent in GoF, when its smell reminds him strongly of Mrs. Figg's house. Also, there are several references to Mrs. Figg's many cats and I wonder what exactly are the magical properties of cats? Crookshanks was able to recognize Sirius the Animagus and helped him as a result. Perhaps cats have something to do with this ancient magic? Or Dumbledore could have invoked the Fidelius Charm once again with Arabella Figg as Harry's Secret Keeper? -Rosa From llusk at rraz.net Sun Jan 21 17:24:39 2001 From: llusk at rraz.net (LORI) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:24:39 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? References: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> <005301c083c2$2cbc35c0$a82907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <00d101c083cf$0baf9860$472fa2ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10009 Dinah, I so agree with everything you wrote. I too love 3 the best! I feel like I got to know all the characters better and they were given some depth. Lori the lurker Different drummer? I'm my own band! http://www.geocities.com/happyhuskermom ----- Original Message ----- From: Dinah To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? Book three is my favorite. First off, because it's not just eh old Voldemort tries to kill Harry thing. Because we get to know much more about Harry's parents - the scene in the Three Brooksticks is just priceless, I was really sitting with Harry under that table and felt with him. Because I was intrigued by Lupin even when he sat snoring in that train compartment. And I really admired him by the time he had praised Neville in front of Snape. Because Sirius and Remus are wonderful characters. The first adults in the book to really have deep, interesting characters, IMHO. And because they are cute beyond belief. Because of the drama behind the whole Sirius-Tragedy. One of the key-sentences here is the mention of Sirius laughing after all the Muggles were killed. What bitterness, what sarcasm. Knowing you have lost everything and being angry won't change a thing. Because Severus showed his crazy side. Mad and drooling, full of bitterness as well. Thinking that your arch-enemy got what he deserved and then learning that it might have been wrong. All your satisfaction gone because you actually feel sorry for him, but won't admit it to yourself. Because of the absolutely surprising end. It was three o'clock in the morning, I couldn't put the book down, wanted to know who or what it was. Gasping "What? No, I don't believe this!!!" so olud that my parents nearly woke up. I stayed up until five o'clock and re-read the whole book on the spot. What can I say, I'm hooked! This book isn't just a good story - this is the book where all the characters became real for me. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch Madness takes it's toll; please have exact change eGroups Sponsor Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 17:39:08 2001 From: slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com (Virgo Black) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:39:08 -0500 Subject: Fanfic tangent Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10010 > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 21:17:45 -0800 (PST) > From: Flourish >Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" > > > She never said Hermione and Ron belong together. > > She's never so much > > as said Ron will survive Book 5! *chokes quietly to > > self* Oh, dear, > > is the ship discussion hoving into view again? > >LOL, I know she hasn't said anything... but you must >admit that the books are very vague on any H/H >relationship, whereas they definetly show that Ron >likes Hermione. > She never says that Ron Likes Hermione! Never! >Right now, I'm not going to commit to either side - >this I have decided I enjoy both H/R and H/H fics >and that is that. Harrykins and Hermy-oh-ninny don't >belong together any more than Ronny-poo belongs with >Hermy-oh-ninny, at least, not until the Creator says >so. I personally won't be signing the R/H forever list until I see some proof. I like H/H the most and think it is absolutely perfect. Until someone can convince me R/H is going to happen I stick with my beliefs. > > > because I > > find him hard to > > write than anything else. > >I've noted that more fanfic authors find Ron hard to >write than any other character. Generally, I think >it's hard to keep characters in-character, because you >aren't the one who created them; you don't know what >Ron's favorite color is or even his favorite food, >whether he *really* loves Hermi or not or if it's just >puppy love, whatever. And Ron's quite hard to pin >down; he can be quite one-dimensional at times, yet >you know he's deeper than that - it's always just out >of your reach. > >Er, just out of my reach. Really that whole rant is >rather me-centric. Cassie, d'you feel somewhat the >same? No offense, but when I've read him in DD/DS he's >been always rather angry. (I shouldn't scold you about >characterization, though, considering I've never >written a fic with Ron as a central part!) > > > But honestly, I find the fanfictions where Ron, upon > > discovering that > > Hermione is dating Harry or Draco or what have you, > > is so distraught > > that he flings himself off Gryffindor Tower to a > > horrid death below > >There's a ton of Hermione-suicide fics, too, only one >of which I've ever liked (I honestly can't remember >the title/author right now, but it was a stream of >conciousness that was beautifully written but didn't >give you enough back story to ruin the moment). I do >think that our favorite trio, being in Gryffindor, >should show a little more backbone than that - after >all, in Gryffindor "dwell the brave of heart," and to >use a cliche, suicide is the coward's way out. Also, Hermione does not show any signs of a suicidal person. Not even with circumstances. Most people who commit suicide do it because they see know other way out. Hermione seems like the type of person who would look for other solutions. Again I would want proof (at least Sirius--er, serious character developement) before I could believe any story with suicide. > > > Ugh, the whole scene makes me ill. > >Methinks you might be getting a little *too* into the >characters here! > > > However, I > > was always > > confused, as I had the distinct impression that V > > kept hammering on > > how Crouch had "never wavered". > >V probably didn't know that Crouch had wavered - if he >hadn't been told, how could he know? Especially if >Pettigrew didn't know that Crouch had begged to be >released, and he probably didn't - having not been at >the trial (as far as I can tell; if someone finds that >he was, I apologize) > > > but one of my biggest pet peeves are the > > H/H fics that don't deal > > with the Ron issue at all, or deal with it too > > tidily. > >Well, there are some that were written before Book IV >came out (pokes at "Shades of Grey" reluctantly) and >that's not the writer's fault. Okay, I'll admit that >I've written one of these: at that point in time there >was no indication that Ron "liked liked" Hermione, and >it really didn't need that much tidying (in my - erm - >twelve-year-old mind, because I was 12 when I started >writing that story). > > > Ok first, where is the fanfic posted? I am sure this > > is a duh > > question, if you know what I mean. Sorry for being > > dense! > >Although others have answered your questions about >fanfiction.net, it *is* quite daunting to sort through >- I'd suggest looking at the Golden Toad Awards >(http://www.geocities.com/toadawards/) and looking up >the fics that have won at fanfiction.net. Although >it's not a guarantee that they're the greatest, these >are the "reader's choice" (and I've just realized I'm >plugging my/Firebolt's awards, so I'll shut up now). > >Now, I've a question for you all: Does anyone else >agree with me in the thought that Lily might have >been, I don't know, less traditional than she is often >portrayed? With the (fairly) new information on how >wizards live much longer than "regular" folk, it's >becoming a possibility that Lily and James were older >than just-out-of-Hogwarts when they had Harry. What >did she do in the meantime? Could she have lived >through the Muggle-bra-burning era without becoming >some sort of feminist? Personally, I have an image of >a much "stronger" woman than most people describe her >as, and I'd like other fans' thoughts. > My Global Studies class (I'm 15) discussed women's roles rather thouroughly for several days. I was the only girl to point out the factr that women might have careers and work from home too. If Lily wasn't just out of school (which seems likely) she probably had a career. It seems likely to me that she either worked from home or stopped working to stay at home with Harry. That is what the wizarding world seems to do. Mrs. Weasley stays at home to take care of her kids, and every other women seen id either single or stays with their kids. I think people make Lily out to be too meek. She was Head Girl and incredibly bright. You could compare her to Hermione in some respects. If he lived throught he '70's bra burning she might have become a bit of a feminist. It doesn't mean she was radical about it but propbably had some ideas. Of course the entire wizarding world seems rather lacking on the Feminist front. It would be a great thing to get Hermione involved in (once she frees the House-Elves, of course.) Radical Feminist-Brigid/Slaybelle/Virgo >===== >-Flourish/Maddy/Nyx > >Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door >Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko >Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ >L.ca.us++/-- > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 15:20:07 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:20:07 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? Message-ID: <200101211807.f0LI7IC06782@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10011 PoA is my absolute favorite, though GoF is definitely growing on me the more I read (then again, I have read or listened to PoA roughly 20+ times at this point, so it has an advantage). I agree with the reasons Dinah gave, but also: My two words: time travel. I'm an absolute sucker for that sort of thing. The Patronus scene: still sends shivers down my spine when Harry realizes the stag is Prongs. The Shreiking Shack scene, which got lots of "too much plot exposition is a short space of time" type comments from critics, but I still think was brilliant. The fact that the victory at the end is a secret one. The fact that Hermione plays a bigger role than in the previous books. Hagrid becomes a teacher. Professor Lupin (but not because he's sexy, just because he's a good guy) The Marauder's Map: brilliant The fact that JKR took Scabbers, a character we had all taken for granted, and made him the crux of the story George's (or was it Fred's?) spot-in imitation of Percy when he gives Harry the Marauder's Map (don't ask; it just makes me giggle) Hermione slapping Malfoy Hermione walking out of Divination Suffice it to say, that if I were trapped on a deserrted island and could only take one book with me, PoA wouold be it. I never get tired of rereading it. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 18:14:31 2001 From: slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com (Virgo Black) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:14:31 -0500 Subject: Hello Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10012 Hi- I'm new to this group and just wanted to spend a few seconds introducing myself. I'm 15 but have been told I'm pretty mature. I like to discuss details and that sort of thing but no one I know enjoys the same kind of discussion, so here I am. I am strongly H/H. This is another reason my friends won't talk to me about HP as I tend to get very longwinded in my defense of H/H when they say D/H or R/H is better. I tolerate it but will launch in to long discussions about why I am right. I currently have a 3 page long essay about why H/H will happen that I handed in for credit to my English Teacher. She thought it was pretty good even though she is R/H. I didn't even know she liked HP! I write fanfic but none of it is that good. I wouldn't recommend any one reading it unless they were really bored. I do think I invented some neat magical things though. I'm really looking forward to jumping into these discussions. --Virgo/Brigid "I'm all about giving. I love it when people give me things. I share too. When something is left where you can see it but not touch it. That's sharing."-Me _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Sun Jan 21 18:16:56 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:16:56 -0000 Subject: Portkey -- Features -- HP Sighting -- Chat Message-ID: <94f92o+vein@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10013 Hello, everyone -- Here are a few notes on a lazy Sunday morning, written while actively skipping church... *The Portkey* I'd like to call your attention to the Portkey.html file, which is always found at the top of the Files list. The Portkey can take you to several of our sister (or "sibling") eGroups that were started as offshoots of this group. There are also links to other good HP- related book discussion and fanfic groups for adult readers. Here's a quick link: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/++Portkey.html *Features of Our eGroup* I'd also like to invite all the new members to explore our Files, Links, Polls and Database areas (just click on the left menu from your browser). These contain a lot of good material, and they can be made even better with your contributions. If you're reading this on e-mail, here are some quick links: *Files - http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/ *Links - http://www.egroups.com/links/HPforGrownups/ *Polls - http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups/ *Database - http://www.egroups.com/database/HPforGrownups/ *HP Sighting* Today (21 Jan, 2001) there was a Harry Potter sighting in the comic "For Better or For Worse" by Lynn Johnston. *Chat* Don't forget the HPforGrownUps chat session scheduled for 3:00 EST today on Yahoo. You'll need to become a member there to enter: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups . Some people have reported problems using Internet Explorer to access Yahoo chat, so a freeware client such as CheetaChat is recommended. CheetaChat can be found at http://www.cheetachat.com . -Jim Flanagan Moderator Team Member From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 15:38:34 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:38:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipping news Message-ID: <200101211826.f0LIQ9C09877@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10014 Oh, so much good stuff! Where to start? First off, I have totally lost track of who wrote what at this point, so I apologize for not attributing these quotes from other posts. >I think Ebony was suggesting that *if* Ron knew (or Hermione told Ron) that her >feelings were for Harry and *if* Ron knew or suspected that Harry returned (or >*could* return) Hermione's feelings, would Ron not be a big enough person to put >his own feelings for Hermione to the side, considering that he is first & >foremost friends with them both? IMO, it is not only acceptable but a show that >a person is a bigger person than to let petty jealousy stand in the way of a >budding romance & a continued friendship amongst the three of them. Yes, I buy this, BUT what I can't stand is the idea that Ron somehow doesn't "deserve" Hermione. He shouldn't have to hide his feelings any more than Hermione should. To say that Ron should forget about Hermione and go out with Lavender or someone else who likes him is just as bad as saying the Hermione should forget about Harry (assuming, of course, that she actually likes Harry, which I don't think she does!) and date Ron instead. >What I find strange is the implication by some people in the past (not you >Elizabeth) that Hermione's feelings don't count. It seems as though some believe >that her feelings are irrelevant and what matters is whether or not Ron or Harry >likes her. Though I'm strongly R/H (did you know that? (: ), I agree that what matters are Hermione's feelings in the matter. Where I differ most strongly from H/H people is that I think she actually does like Ron, and I think there is just as much evidence for that as H/H people think there is evidence she likes Harry. I agree that the fact that Ron likes her is not evidence enough to say that she likes him. Nor is the fact that Viktor Krum clearly likes her evidence that she has real feelings for him, even if she does have something of a relationship with him. Hermione, like most 14 year old girls, is an enigma at the moment. >>Forcing Harry >> to spend the rest of his life with anyone is really not very kind to him. I >> most object to the H/H pairing because I consider it a "shotgun wedding" for >> Poor Harry. Well, that's a new take on the issue! But I think it goes along with what I said earlier about Ron and Hermione. Saying Harry "should" be with Hermione because she "likes" him (which, did I mention, I don't necessarily think she does) is just as bad as saying that Hermione should be with Ron just because he likes her. >Unless Harry is a psychic empath or Hermione declares her >> feelings directly to Harry, we can't really know what Hermione's feelings are, >> nor are they the focus of the story. Ah, there's the rub. But, if we *did* know exactly what Ron and Hermione were thinking, it would sure take the fun out of the speculation. The fact is, we will never see enough of their relationship (whatever it is now and becomes later, friendship or romance) to really know exactly what's going on between them, because we see things from Harry's POV and he doesn't see everything. Which, IMO, makes it more fun. >> My ship pet peeve: the odd insistence that any of us are necessarily and >> unequivocally right in our ship beliefs, regardless of Ms. Rowling's statements >> and/or canon writings. Those of us with strong preference often say things like "those misguided __/__ shippers" and tease each other, but I don't think any of us truly believe that our humble opinions outweigh JKR's universe. As Ebony pointed out recently, ship preferences often have nothing to do with the canon, and I am sure that those H/H people will still be living in their little fantasy world even after JKR has shown that R/H is the way to go (see? that was teasing! ). Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee P.S. When I made those comments on the PoU list last week, I didn't mean we had to start up the shipper discussions again right away, but I sure am glad they're back, since I find them so much fun! From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 21 18:26:40 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 12:26:40 -0600 Subject: FAQs Update; Admin Message (Please Read) Message-ID: <3A6B29E0.8481C0D0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10015 Hi -- FAQs UPDATE: We've got so many newbies that I thought I would update the group a bit on the status of the "FAQs." We have a group of about 10 people who have been diligently working on going through all 7000+ Yahoo messages (Oct 1999 - Aug 2000) and the nearly 10,000 messages we've generated here at egroups since late August 2000. We are creating a series of webpages that will summarize things that have been discussed before & hopefully spur new & creative discussions (and just give everyone basic information). There are 54 FAQs being written when I last looked. The topics range from character sketches for all the major characters, book-banning, Religion & HP, Wands, Magical Devices, Geography & HP, Hogwarts, JKR, Wizarding World - Economy, etc. In other words, we're covering a wide range of topics. We are trying to find the appropriate place to host these pages and then will upload what is prepared at this point, leaving inactive links for those FAQs that are still under construction. We are very hopeful that we can have at least some of these uploaded by the end of the month. My guess is that 1/3 of them are close enough to being done to upload by the end of this month, once we figure out where they are being uploaded. ADMIN STUFF Can I please ask anyone who is receiving Digests to please, please, please put something in your subject line other than Digest #___. This is particularly important for those of us working on the FAQs (which will be updated & maintained as we go along). If your subject heading is Hogwarts & I'm in charge of that particular FAQ, I'll take a look at that message & decide if it's something that needs to be added to the FAQ (new info or insights) or not. If your subject heading only says "Digest #355," I'll have to look at the message regardless. Also, for people responding to Digest points: if you're responding to a variety of subjects, be sure to list each one out in your subject heading. And, finally for Digest users -- please be sure you attribute the source to any quoted material (as in "Penny said -- [quote]" and "Ebony responded -- [quote]"). Make sense? Let the Moderators know if you have questions. This is a very high-volume list, and lots of us find that we pick & choose amongst the messages that we read. So, subject headings are critically important (as is changing a subject heading that is no longer relevant if you've branched off into another topic). Welcome to all the newbies -- and thanks!! Penny From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 17:59:15 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:59:15 -0000 Subject: My favourite HP book... Message-ID: <004301c083d3$f2fd5280$153670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10016 Although I agree that Prisoner of Azkaban is excellent, I'd have to vote for Philosopher's Stone as my favourite Harry Potter book. Turning the first page of that book is what brought me here and I now prize my battered paperback edition of PS above any amount of commercial merchandise. I knew, when I'd finished reading it for the first time, that I'd experienced something very rare and that I wanted more of the same. It's not only the nostalgia and the fact that it's beautifully told that grabs me, it's the knowledge that the author had to fight to get 500 copies published without an inkling that her books would later become a literary phenomenon. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 15:55:23 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:55:23 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] From the good ship R/H Message-ID: <200101211843.f0LIhIC11920@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10017 Elizabeth wrote: >And maybe, just maybe, Harrykins and Hermikins and Ronniekins *all* don't >belong together. Or maybe Harrykins and Ronniekins belong together. But it >is all up to Ms. Rowlings, whom I believe is the Goddess of the Potterverse. Yes, it's possible...but it would be so much more interesting to have some romantic tension, of whatever kind, in the Trio. Even if they all do end up with other people (which I think would be kind of sad in a way). They have so much together that they can't really share with anyone else. >because despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are >first and foremost *friends*. Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone ever >considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down?> I think I reponded to this once already in another post, but I thought of something else. I think it's entirely possible that Ron would do such a thing (assuming of course, he was in a situation where it might be necessary, which I think we have already established that I don't belive to be the case!) BUT it would certainly not be right away and it would certainly still affect the friendship of the Trio. I think that this is what I was trying to say in reponse to Cassie yesterday. Even if Ron did date Hermione and then "move on", as she put it, I think it would still affect they way the three of them interacted, even if Hermione and harry never got together. It would have to. Not sure who said this (sorry!): >I must add to this that I don't believe any Object of Desire exists in Ms. >Rowlings' Potterverse. Hermione as written in canon is not flawless (no, >she's not!), and Ginny is um, uncertain (yes, she is!) and most Objects of >Desire are quite deliberately described as such. I agree! We shippers have put a lot of our own spin on the characters and our perceptions of them (often helped by the fanfic). That's part of the reason that I wanted to try to stay as true to the canon as possible in mine. (Obviously I have put my own spin on things, adds Kathy quickly, before Penny jumps in, but I am trying to keep it plausible and true to the characters as I see them in the canon.) Not that there's anything wrong with this, mind you, but I think it sometimes confuses things when people start discussing the canon. >I agree that Hermione is one of the brains of the operation. Ron is another >brain of the operation, although of a different (but equally important) sort. > Harry's blessed to have them both to rely on as friends. I agree! And I think that one of the main reasons I moved away from half-hearted H/H shipperdom into full-fledged R/H shipperdom is that fact that many (not all) H/H shippers sell Ron short, IMHO. MOst H/H fics tend to set up H and H as this perfect couple and then kind of throw Ron in as comic relief, if they show him at all. I think Ron as a character has much more depth than most people give him credit for, and quite honestly I am starting to find Harry kinda boring. (Is that blasphemy?) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Jan 21 18:43:53 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 21 Jan 2001 18:43:53 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980102633.74426@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10018 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: What type of shipper are you? If that's to hard to decide then what's your favourite ship? o Harry-Hermione o Harry-Ron o Harry-Cho o Harry-Parvati o Harry-Hedwig o Harry-Ginny o Harry-other o Ron-Hermione o Ron-Padma o Ron-Fluer o Ron-other o Hermione-Neville o Hermione-Krum o Hermione-other o Draco-Pansy o Draco-Ginny o Sirius-yourself o Sirius-Lupin o Sirius-Mcgonagall o Dumbledore-Madam Pomfrey o Other teacher- other partner o Lupin-Mcgonagall o Mcgonagall-other o Fred-Angelina o Other To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 15:56:57 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 10:56:57 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron in fanfic land: Terminally Message-ID: <200101211844.f0LIiuC12082@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10019 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >See, I'm trying to think of the most plausible way to just get RID of Ron in >Song of Time. Now that Draco's more than just Evil Nasty Fascist Guy, Ron's >just so superfluous. > >I'm currently tossing between just transferring him elsewhere (perhaps >making him a student teacher at Durmstrang...) or killing him off. Anybody >got suggestions > >======================================== >John Walton john at walton.to You're....*choke*....you can't be...*closes eyes in horror*... I must go lie down now... Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sun Jan 21 18:50:12 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:50:12 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) Message-ID: <60.ae0a15e.279c8964@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10020 In a message dated 1/21/2001 9:57:18 AM EST, pennylin at swbell.net writes: < I think Ebony was suggesting that *if* Ron knew (or Hermione told Ron) that her feelings were for Harry and *if* Ron knew or suspected that Harry returned (or *could* return) Hermione's feelings, would Ron not be a big enough person to put his own feelings for Hermione to the side, considering that he is first & foremost friends with them both? IMO, it is not only acceptable but a show that a person is a bigger person than to let petty jealousy stand in the way of a budding romance & a continued friendship amongst the three of them.> I'll ponder this a bit more, but I'm not entirely sure that suppressing one's feelings makes one a bigger person. I'm also not sure what you mean by "could return." Are you suggesting that Ron should put aside his own feelings if Harry's feelings are unknown? I agree, Penny, although I'd add that the no-shippers can make a plausible case as well. < I don't think I've ever seen anyone make that argument (and having prepared the Romance FAQ and the Hermione FAQ (just yesterday), I'd have seen if it they had).> I look forward to reading them. I don't recall many discussions of Harry's feelings regarding this matter, other than general agreement that we don't know with certainty what they are, but that he appears to be uninterested in Hermione so far. Ok, but ... < She starts out that way, sure enough.> So it's not just my opinion. < But, well .... maybe you'll see more redeeming Hermione qualities when you read the FAQ on her. > I'm not suggesting she doesn't have other qualities as well, (I even mentioned some of them: "because she's clever or witty or any of the many other nice things she is."). But I don't believe that she will change so drastically that she will lose all the characteristics she's been endowed with by her creator, either. That's correct. Ms Rowling has not yet created a character whom I believe would be happy with Hermione in the long run. Sorry about the typo. I'll be more careful in the future. Yes, I do agree with that. I believe Hermione's feelings should be taken into account as much as Ron's or Harry's, but I also believe that the books are about Harry and that any ideas we get about Ron's or Hermione's feelings will be filtered through Harry and colored by his point of view. What about Ron and Hermione both declaring their feelings for each other? < I can also envision Harry learning about Hermione's feelings (if she has them for him) -- either directly from her> Yes, I believe I mentioned that was one way Harry might know what Hermione felt. I< believe I or perhaps indirectly (he could overhear a conversation for example or someone else could tell him).> But that would be hearsay! It also sounds like the start of a good game of gossip. Eeek! Now this just popped into my head: If Trelawney and/or Psychic!Ron tell us all how Hermione feels, will anyone believe them? I'm sorry if I react harshly to that suggestion, but teasing is a very major trigger for me and I never find it the least bit humorous. < (I guess even if Harry dies at the end of Book 7). But, canon predictions are not set in stone by any of us. Not IMO anyway.> Nor in mine. We agree on most of this, don't we? Love & Light, *Elizabeth* 90% obsessed and proud of it ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Jan 21 18:51:31 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 21 Jan 2001 10:51:31 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] How old is Flamel Message-ID: <20010121185131.14275.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10021 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sun Jan 21 18:58:18 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:58:18 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New poll for HPforGrownups References: <980102633.74426@egroups.com> Message-ID: <006101c083dc$20a4f820$a92e07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10022 Great idea! But "Severus - myself" is clearly missing, as well as McGonagall - Poppy. I guess this shows that everyone has his/her special little ideas. ~ Dinah ~ (who has visions of Ron/Cho lately) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they shall never cease to be amused. From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 16:12:37 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:12:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) Message-ID: <200101211900.f0LJ0sC14138@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10023 OK, I just realized that I already responded to some of Ebony's points from a previous post (sorry I didn't credit you Ebony!), but I missed some, so here goes: >As I've said, we H/Hers are steeling ourselves for impending doom... >oh, I mean, the Inevitable R/H Pairing. *But*... JKR has thrown me >for a loop before. I hope that if Book 5 has any hint of romance at >all, she doesn't go for the obvious. I hope she uses it as an >opportunity to shock our socks off. Just my opinion. Actually, IMO, pairing Harry and Hermione would be the easy way out. "The Hero Gets the Girl" and all that. Plus, H/H is just too sappy for me. There's no *spark* to it. It's just less interesting, to me anyway. >Ron is a fun character to write! I think that of the Three, he's the >most people-centered. I agree with you on this! (for once!) Just like in GoF, when Harry and Ron were fighting, Ron was the one who still got to be friends with Dean and Seamus and all the others and Harry was the one left out. Granted, it was partially becuase of his brothers, but Ron has also spent more time being friends with the others. (Of course, being from a large family probably gives you better interpersonal skills that being locked in the cupboard under the stairs!) >The more I write (I've got a couple of projects in the works), the >more I'm convinced of my ship preference. Same here, but different ship. (; >She >knows that they both take her for granted. Excuse my frankness, she >resents the hell out of that. I rather think she'd also resent the >conclusion being drawn that if Ron likes her, she should just fall >into his arms. I actually agree with this too! (And this is one of the things I am trying to show in my story.) And that, I think, is exactly why she won't tell Ron that she likes him. >Let's wait to see what Hermione thinks in canon. For all we know, >she might very wisely conclude that she'd rather keep her friendships >the way they are... and continue to correspond with Viktor Krum. Yeah, maybe, but that'd be so boring! >Of course, my take on the interpersonal dynamics of the Trio at the >end of GoF is summed up in a fic that Kathy recommended to me and >here, "Friend Enough?" by Parker. It's on my favorites page, and >I've been singing the praises of this author's three fics for the >past week. (Kathy, to quote PoU, "you should know better than to >give me such delicious leverage." ;-)) Well, as I said, I recommended it even though I don't *agree* with it. I just really like anything that deals with Ron effectively, and that one does. (I happen to think that the main thrust of that story, Hermione realizing her feelings for Harry while he is competing in the 3rd Task, has no real evidence in the canon. Sorry, Parker!) But it's still a very good fic. If I only read R/H fics, I would never have enough to hold me over until Book 5, unfortunately. So I have to branch out a little! :) >--Ebony (sailing away merrily down the shipper stream on the SS H/H) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee waving from the deck of the Good Ship R/H From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 16:20:32 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 11:20:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione's feelings Message-ID: <200101211908.f0LJ8xC15088@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10024 I knew there was somthing else I wanted to say! >I wrote: > >> (Of course, I also firmly believe that Hermione, whatever she thinks >> about Harry, also likes Ron back.) And Penny replied: >So .... she likes them both? :--) Actually, I think it's entirely possible that she likes them both, and not in the Harry-is-the-love-of-her-life and Ron-is-a-dear-friend-she-would-never-want-to-hurt way that most H/H-ers seem to think. The overwhelming message I seem to get from the H/H crowd is that if she liked them both and wound up dating Ron it would only be because he was "the easy choice", as he definitely has feelings for her. I think it entirely possible that she maybe could have feelings for them both, and maybe might realize that her feelings for Harry are just a crush (collective gasp from H/H shippers at such blasphemous thoughts) and that Ron is really the one for her. I once again have to point to Arabella's "The O.W.L.'s" and Zsenya's "The Shreiking Shack" as examples of plausible, working R/H relationships. And I still think scenarios like that are much more likely than H/H, but I don't suppose that opinion from me is news to anyone! Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From editor at texas.net Sun Jan 21 19:20:12 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:20:12 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Fellow Rickman fan References: <2d.658721c.279b45d2@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A6B366B.AD58DDB1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10025 andeinmn at aol.com wrote: > And, Amanda, don't I know you from the Alan Rickman onelist? Probably, but I had to get off due to volume of emails. I frequent Suzanne's guestbook now. --Amanda From nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com Sun Jan 21 19:39:14 2001 From: nick at dvd-films.freeuk.com (Nick Mitchell) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:39:14 -0000 Subject: More Mechandise Message-ID: <003501c083e1$df83a200$2c987ed4@s8u7u5> No: HPFGUIDX 10026 For those of you in the UK... some merchandise is finally here. ARGOS has a new catalogue with a page of HP merchandise. This is also available from the website - www.argos.co.uk Think I'll be shopping at Argos on Tuesday - have to work tomorrow :-( Nick. From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sun Jan 21 19:42:50 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:42:50 +0100 Subject: The Movie - again Message-ID: <004201c083e2$c61534e0$3f2c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10027 May I list all concerns I have about the movie - we all probably have? There is the fear of going for popular votes instead of HP-Fans Then the fear of a money-only movie with loads of unnecessary special-effect and additional plot etc. What about the look of it? Not for the natural, cosy look the books suggest but glossy, stylish. cool. Just to name a few of them. But I think I'll stop worrying about it. It will never live up to my expectations, will never match the pictures I have. I will keep those pictures. Hogwarts will always exist for me like it is in my imagination. What I expect "Mr. Producer" to do, and what I will settle for if I have to, is a good kids movie. A little more action and cute creatures than necessary, everything in bright colours, things altered from the books to fit in with the Hollywood concept. Actors that just don't look like I picture th4e characters of the books to look like. As long as I'm entertained, can go out of the cinema and say: "This was a nice movie, I'd like to see it again" and see the children around me smile I will be happy. Those books are for children, after all, and if they like the movie, who am I to protest? ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 19:47:40 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:47:40 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10028 Hi Elizabeth (who has a nice name... ;) and all: >> << As I've said, we H/Hers are steeling ourselves for impending doom... >>oh, >I mean, the Inevitable R/H Pairing.>> > >Doom? Goodness! I hope it's not that awful for you. I really mean that. Just a lighthearted joke. But as I've told H/H friends, I'm really very stubborn about romance subplots. Once I make up my mind in the middle of a novel or a series about my opinion, there's no changing it. So I'll enjoy the books, of course, but just as CoS is the book in the series I re-read the least, passages that make me grit my teeth will be duly skimmed over. Some may say that's wrong. Oh, well... that's just the way I am. There's a Lucy Maud Montgomery novel that I thoroughly enjoyed... but the very last sentence of the book contained a very offensive racial slur. So that ever afterward colored my enjoyment of the book... that particular novel is the one of the 30 I own that I refuse to re-read. I've been jarred by various aspects of the narration while reading Alcott, Wilder, and others. I really don't expect to see much romance for romance's sake in the canon. If it's there, it like everything else will tie into the main plot. JMO. > < All right, Switzerland! I enjoy both R/H fics and H/H fics as well. > > >And I enjoy het fics as well as slash fics. I actually find the ones that >deal with minor characters most intriguing. Me too. That's why I'm writing from a minor character's POV. The first fanfiction I ever read was Hercules and Xena--most of it happened to be slash. > >And maybe, just maybe, Harrykins and Hermikins and Ronniekins *all* don't >belong together. Or maybe Harrykins and Ronniekins belong together. But >it is all up to Ms. Rowlings, whom I believe is the Goddess of the >Potterverse. I agree with Elizabeth! But--again--fanon and canon are two different things. Once an author publishes his or her work, he/she cannot control the impressions and conclusions that others draw from it. As a creative writer and an English grad student, this took me a very long time to accept. >I'm very, very sorry that you've lost peers and friends to suicide. I very >recently lost my mother the same way. It hurts in a way that nothing else >does. I'm still not in favor of banning anything anyone's written, but I do >understand how much it must hurt you. Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that! I'm no censor, but I just think that suicide fics are in extremely poor taste. Again, JMO. >so, is a cop-out in most cases. This is why I don't think Harry will die >in >Book 7. Or if he dies, he may not stay dead... etc.> >It does occur in folklore/mythology, which is what I believe Ms. Rowling is >writing. I know it occurs in myth (having studied it last semester), but it doesn't make for the best modern literature. Most modern tragic heroes (Holden Caulfield) differs greatly from the classic tragic hero (MacBeth). The classical hero struggles primarily with himself; the modern hero struggles with his place in the world. The problems with killing off your viewpoint narrator in modern lit are manifold. It takes a master creative writing teacher like Orson Scott Card or Nancy Kress to explain this fully. As a teen, I had a horrible habit of killing off characters because I didn't know what to do with them (much like Diana did in the Anne of Green Gables Story Club). It's much more indicative of a subtle genius, and much more beneficial to humankind's collective canon of literature, to avoid killing off the character. The first few times around (as in archetypal myths) it's effective. At this point in time, it's usually tragicomic at best. Again, perhaps JKR is writing in the tradition of Shakespeare et. al. Maybe Harry-as-Hamlet will end up dead along with Hermione-as-Ophelia and Voldemort-as-Claudius. Maybe Ron-as-Horatio will live to write the epilogue. I wrote: >< because despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are >first and foremost *friends*. Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone >ever considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down?> Elizabeth responded: >Why would he do that? Do you really think it's acceptable for a person to >sacrifice their feelings for another in order to let the "Hero" get the >girl? Of course it's not. However--read Parker's "Friend Enough?" Can you imagine canon Ron doing something like that *if* that was the case? I wrote: <*That* is a problem in the friendship between the two boys that has nothing to do with Hermione. Both of them, in some measure, wants to be the other.> Elizabeth responded: >Started to disagree, then noticed the "in some measure," so ... okay. I just had to restate that belief of mine. It's one conclusion I draw from reading GoF. I still believe that. >Hermione doesn't "get" Harry because she's clever or witty or any of the >many other nice things she is. Wow. I've never seen an H/Her argue this. Hmmm... (heading back to the mothership to run some lab tests) >As I tend to identify with Harry, I bristle at the suggestion that *anyone* >should "get" him. Poor boy! He's not a prize, you know, he's a person! >And >to force him to spend the rest of his life with a bossy, know-it-all, >stifling person (and that *is* the way Ms. Rowlings has described Hermione >so >far) is not exactly fair to Harry! Henpecked!Harry totally squicks me. LOL! I think Penny addressed this already, so I'll leave it alone. So you'd rather have Ron henpecked? (I'm serious... I'm now laughing so hard that tears are falling from my eyes!) I'm assuming a lot here, but I take it you don't like Hermione too much... why, then, should Ron have to suffer with her? >Forcing Harry to spend the rest of his life with anyone is really not very >kind to him. I most object to the H/H pairing because I consider it a >"shotgun wedding" for Poor Harry. Why can't Harry be independent and happy? Shotgun wedding? When's the baby due? (Giggling again.) I know that a lot of poor quality teenage fics have Hermione pregnant, but (to quote Hermione herself) *honestly*. Harry should be independent if that's what he wants. I tended to agree with this statement in the beginning. But--and this is something that the more prominent H/H writers had to bring me around to--Harry enjoys spending time with the Weasleys. Private and introspective though he might be, do you really think the Boy Who Lived wants to live his life as a Lone Ranger? >I agree that Hermione is one of the brains of the operation. Ron is >another brain of the operation, although of a different (but equally >important) sort. Harry's blessed to have them both to rely on as friends. Why is it that whenever I compliment Hermione, it's seen to be at Ron's expense? Of course Harry's blessed to have them both! I'm also a huge advocate of a balanced Friendship between the Three. Most H/Hers are. I've heard the other side argue either that Harry and Hermione have a sibling relationship, or that Harry and Hermione are not as close as Ron-Hermione or Ron-Harry. (Anything to make sure that no romantic interest can develop!) Sorry. The friendship is a Venn Diagram. The Three have things in common as a triple, things in common in pairs, and unique characteristics and interests. ><> > >I don't believe they should, but neither do I believe that Ron's feelings >should be taken into account. The books are written from Harry's point of >view. Unless Harry is a psychic empath or Hermione declares her feelings >directly to Harry, we can't really know what Hermione's feelings are, nor >are >they the focus of the story. Au contraire. (Hope I spelled that right--my foreign language is Spanish, not French.) Hermione's feelings on everything from house-elves to pets have played an integral part in the plot up until now. I could go on and on about how this could affect the main plot of Harry's struggle with Voldemort. As a matter of fact, when dreaming up post-Hogwarts scenarios, the only way I could see any romantic interaction within the trio (R/Ha, H/H, or R/He) *not* affecting the main narrative is if none existed at all. As JKR seems as if she won't resist the temptation to insert it in--it's realistic--it occurs in many, many platonice friendships--it will in some way, shape or form affect the major narrative. > feelings for Ron. My take on it is that the whole business left a rather >nasty taste in her mouth re: both of her best friends.> > >I agree. I believe that's why she'd look elsewhere (even into her >adulthood) >for a romantic partnership. So if Ron can't have her, Harry can't either, right? ;-) Yeah, I think perhaps all three might look elsewhere if it wasn't for three things: 1) Impending war speeds along romance... that's a proven fact. 2) I'm an HP Small World advocate... and successful modern marriages are made up of people with some common interests. 3) It's fun to matchmake! <> > >I hope you are not holding your breath. Hee hee! Yeah, that must be it. I'm H/H because a full supply of oxygen hasn't reached my brain since July 8, 2000. And I'll be "Waiting to Exhale" until 2002 or whenever Jo decides to release book 5. >Even if Hermione does make it evident that she is romantically inclined >towards Harry, that does not create >an H/H ship. It sure doesn't! I agree with you there. But do you really think that Harry will just shrug off her feelings and say, "Tough cookies... I have a world to save?" *That* would really be Hamlet-esque. :-) Again, unless JKR avoids romance subplots altogether, they will be a bit sticky. And they will tie into the master narrative. I said I wouldn't put money on R/H... but if any romance occurs, I'd be willing to put my money where my mouth is. >I have a feeling that Harry will not be involved romantically with anyone >at >the end of the books and that he may have considerable difficulty in >forming >relationships with anyone, even in the future, unless he gets some really >good therapy. You're very probably hooking Hermione up with someone >who's suffering from >PTSD. It could be dicey for them both. That's why no adult H/Her with good sense puts them together at the immediate conclusion of the war. I agree with the PTSD idea completely... Jim Ferer AKA Dadgrid converted me to this way of thinking... I buy it, I buy it! In my own fic (this is not a spoiler), Harry disappears for three years the second Voldemort is defeated, and rumor has it that he is dead. However, just as Harry could fight off the dreadful Imperius curse at the tender age of 14 (a curse that destroyed the lives of fully matured and capable wizards), I don't think he'll live the remainder of his life alone. >My ship pet peeve: the odd insistence that any of us are necessarily and >unequivocally right in our ship beliefs, regardless of Ms. Rowling's >statements and/or canon writings. I must reiterate that I believe that Ms. >Rowlings is the Goddess of the Potterverse and I accept her scenario >(whatever it may be) in spite of my own hopes and wishes. If my shipmates and I were unequivocally right, there would be nothing to debate. I also accept Rowling's scenario. But as in the case of LMA, I don't have to like it. Odd though my sentiment may seem, it is my belief and one that I'm free to keep. :-) Hope I didn't sound too belligerent. Kathy can tell you I have nothing but genuine caring and concern for my friends who are suffering from R/H Disorder! (Just kidding, Ron fans... sheathe those claws! Lower those pistols! And by all means--put down those darn pitchforks! LOL!) All the best, Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 21 19:49:27 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:49:27 -0000 Subject: Elizabeth's long "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) In-Reply-To: <9c.aefc396.279c20ef@aol.com> Message-ID: <94feg7+2cjr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10029 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > But it is all up to Ms. Rowlings, whom I believe is the Goddess of > the Potterverse. Some people believe that God/dess created a universe with laws of nature, laws of virtue, and a drive to hold creatures with consciousness, souls, and free will, and then sits backs while the creatures act according to their free wills and the law of nature, while other people believe that God/dess constantly intervenes in a miraculous way. In our real universe, if a person falls off a tall bulding and heesh crashes to the ground below, that is acting according to the laws of nature. If the person falls off a tall building and a stereotypical angel with white robes and gold wings is seen by all observers to swoop down, grab the person by the arm, and fly off with himer, that is a miraculous intervention. The reason I went on at such length about Muggle religious ideas is because there is a close analogy to the author being the God/dess of the universe heesh created. The author has the power to make a miraculous intervention and cause implausible events to occur and characters to act out of character. JKR *could* make Hermione lose all interest in books and in knowing stuff and have her be the sweet little kinder-kuche-kirche woman, but all the fans would object that this was out of character for Hermione! > I also know that you can't make yourself undepressed or > non-suicidal on your own. I suppose that a person who craves to end it all but believes that suicide is a sin could possible keep himerself from suiciding the same way that *some* dieters are able to keep themselves from eating? > [Aside to anyone who's interested: do the descriptions of Lily > sound at least just a bit like descriptions of The Morrigan to > you?] No. The description of Lily is a pretty young woman with long dark red hair, who was Head Girl in her day, which indicates that she was brainy. I have picked up an inference that she also was a very sweet person. I have not made a study of The Morrigan (mor-rigan: Great Queen), but what I've heard of the Battle Crow (such as her duel with Cuchulain) gave me the impression that she is a middle-aged, muscular, and bitter-tongued person. I don't recall her being pretty, having red hair, or being brainy, any more than I recall Lily being muscular. > I don't have a degree, so I can't speak authoritatively. Degrees don't matter, just whether you have the knowledge. > And to force him to spend the rest of his life with a bossy, > know-it-all, stifling person (snip) is not exactly fair to Harry! After his life with the Dursleighs, Harry is better suited to live in an unhappy marriage than most people. He can withdraw into himself and live with his own thoughts while his wife berates him. As long as she doesn't hit him and and doesn't starve him and doesn't keep him locked in a cupboard so that he can't leave the house, he'll think he's happy by comparison to the Dursleighs. > Why can't Harry be independent and happy? because he may not be able to be happy at all. (see below) > he may have considerable difficulty in forming relationships with > anyone, even in the future, unless he gets some really good > therapy. After all, the persons who should have been raising > him were killed (snip) The persons who are raising him abuse him. I very much agree. I believe that this is why he has sublimated his hormones into just LOOKING AT Cho -- he has made it very obvious that he DOESN'T WANT to talk to him, let alone kiss her; he DOESN'T WANT to even fantasize about kissing her, let alone more than kissing. From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Sun Jan 21 19:53:44 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 21 Jan 2001 11:53:44 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Future sacrifices? Message-ID: <20010121195344.27845.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10030 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 19:44:40 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:44:40 -0500 Subject: PTSD - Harry and/or Sirius References: <9c.aefc396.279c20ef@aol.com> Message-ID: <010201c083e2$994298e0$5549d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10031 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > And I'll speak from experience on the issue as well: when the people you most > depend on abuse you, forming trusting, loving relationships is extremely > difficult. It also makes you very brave. > > You're very probably hooking Hermione up with someone who's suffering from > PTSD. It could be dicey for them both. You think Harry has PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)? Harry hasn't shown any symptoms of this as of yet...I guess it could be extremely delayed, and this is one thing that seems unreal about Harry is that he hasn't shown any repercussions of his 10 years in a closet. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a realistic response, or that Harry will not have intimacy issues to deal with, but I hadn't thought of PTSD in association with Harry. Now, I have been engaged in a long detailed discussion on whether Sirius has PTSD with another Sirius fanatic off list, anyone want to comment on this possibility? carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 19:45:13 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:45:13 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? References: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> <005301c083c2$2cbc35c0$a82907d5@oemcomputer> <00a401c083ca$ac72a1c0$02a6bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <010301c083e2$ac7266c0$5549d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10032 Two words...Sirius Black.... No really to be more articulate...I'm with Allyson here on most of her points. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allyson" > Another question I am ready to answer! PoA is my favorite HP book for a number of reasons! > > I think it explores Harry just a little more and that is what is needed to really make you feel for poor Harry. I gained so much more insight as to who Harry is that I could honestly say I felt his pain a number of times in this particular story-line. > I loved learning about his parents and their history. > I also liked the introduction of Sirius! Next to Hermione, he is my favorite character. We really get to see his true personality come out and in it is his obvious love for his Godson. Not to mention, in my mind he is a hunk!!!!! Nice addition to mental pictures here!!! > He is my favorite character...but then you all already knew that. > We were introduced to yet another great character, Prof. Lupin. WOW! What a great addition to the cast of characters in the HP books. I think his praise of Neville in front of Snape was just the icing on the cake in PoA!!!!! Glad to hear he might be making a comeback in one of the next books!!! WOO HOO!!!! > I am interested to see what role Sirius and Remus take in the coming books. carole From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 21 19:34:27 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:34:27 -0000 Subject: Weekly discussions (admin) Message-ID: <016001c083e1$47736900$153670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10033 WEEKLY DISCUSSIONS Some of our newer members may not be aware that we are running topical discussions each week. Briefly, every Monday, one or two list members post summaries on (a) a chapter of Goblet of Fire and (b) a character from the books, adding a few questions to spark off some ideas. Tomorrow, we reach Chapter 27 of GoF, "Padfoot Returns" (summary by Carole Estes) and a sketch of that snivelling little rat, Peter Pettigrew (by Michelle Apostolides). Information on future discussion topics and volunteers can be found here: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Discussion+Summaries/Discussions+on+Harry+Potter+for+Grownups.htm Note: These scheduled discussions are intended to run alongside ongoing threads. Neil Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 20:07:57 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:07:57 Subject: Shipping news Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10034 Hey, Kathy and list... Penny wrote: >> >I think Ebony was suggesting that *if* Ron knew (or Hermione told Ron) >>that her feelings were for Harry and *if* Ron knew or suspected that Harry >>returned (or *could* return) Hermione's feelings, would Ron not be a big >>enough person to put his own feelings for Hermione to the side, >>considering that he is first & foremost friends with them both? IMO, it >>is not only acceptable but a show that a person is a bigger person than to >>let petty jealousy stand in the way of a budding romance & a continued >>friendship amongst the three of them. Kathy replied: >Yes, I buy this, BUT what I can't stand is the idea that Ron somehow >doesn't "deserve" Hermione. He shouldn't have to hide his feelings any >more than Hermione should. To say that Ron should forget about Hermione >and go out with Lavender or someone else who likes him is just as bad as >saying the Hermione should forget about Harry (assuming, of course, that >she actually likes Harry, which I don't think she does!) and date Ron >instead. Kathy knows that we agree on several issues. One is the fact that we both hate Ron/Lavender fics. What on earth? Also, Ron should not have to put his feelings on the back burner. I agree with that too. If he likes Hermione, and *if* Hermione returns those feelings, then they should go for it. I'll even grin over those scene in canon (ducks away from Penny, who tosses a rubber Quidditch club in my direction). However... To speak of women in terms of reward and punishment is troublesome. I was intrigued by Elizabeth's post about the HP books following certain mythic structures. I agree that Hermione is not the classical heroine of the novels. She is not perfect, she is not the most beautiful, and she has flaws. However, it can't be denied that she is the female protagonist. Of 15,000 fics, she is prominently featured in 2/3 to 3/4 of them (many of these having nothing to do with romance). Many of my older female students adore her and totally relate to her. Hermione should be neither Ron's nor Harry's nor Viktor's reward. She is not a prize to be won. She's a modern, independent girl who should be free to choose. Perhaps she'll choose none of these boys growing into men. Perhaps she'll choose women. Perhaps she'll choose to be "wedded to her art" (Trina, smile--there's some Emily for you!). But as the women who have responded to the housewife thread have stated... she should be free to choose. For most of history, women and many minority groups did not have this choice. I think that Hermione should be free. >Though I'm strongly R/H (did you know that? (: ), I agree that what >matters are Hermione's feelings in the matter. Where I differ most >strongly from H/H people is that I think she actually does like Ron, and I >think there is just as much evidence for that as H/H people think there is >evidence she likes Harry. I agree that the fact that Ron likes her is not >evidence enough to say that she likes him. Nor is the fact that Viktor >Krum clearly likes her evidence that she has real feelings for him, even if >she does have something of a relationship with him. Hermione, like most 14 >year old girls, is an enigma at the moment. Kathy, I agree with everything you said (except of course that she returns Ron's feelings... no surprises there, huh?). This is why I really enjoy debating ship preferences with you. You're R/H and I'm H/H, but we have lots of fun going back and forth, don't we? Elizabeth wrote: > >I most object to the H/H pairing because I consider it a "shotgun >wedding" for Poor Harry. And Kathy responded: >Well, that's a new take on the issue! But I think it goes along with what >I said earlier about Ron and Hermione. Saying Harry "should" be with >Hermione because she "likes" him (which, did I mention, I don't necessarily >think she does) is just as bad as saying that Hermione should be with Ron >just because he likes her. Right. I agree with this as well. We H/Hers feel that the two Hs are well suited, and it would be an ideal match, but only if both parties involved want it. >....if we *did* know exactly what Ron and Hermione were thinking, it would >sure take the fun out of the speculation. The fact is, we >will never see enough of their relationship (whatever it is now and becomes >later, friendship or romance) to really know exactly what's going on >between them, because we see things from Harry's POV and he doesn't see >everything. Which, IMO, makes it more fun. Again, this is why I like chatting with you, Kathy! It is fun, isn't it? It's also counterproductive to participate in a debate, and then because you don't like some statements from the other side to declare that the debate itself is illegitimate. What in the world? >Those of us with strong preference often say things like "those >misguided__/__ shippers" and tease each other, but I don't think any of us >truly believe that our humble opinions outweigh JKR's universe. As Ebony >pointed out recently, ship preferences often have nothing to do with the >canon, and I am sure that those H/H people will still be living in their >little fantasy world even after JKR has shown that R/H is the way to go >(see? that was teasing! ). Hey! I saw that! That's OK... I hope JKR pulls a Sirius Black on you guys in the romance department. I'll send you an e-mail after reading the book in which it occurs: "Hey Kathy... hear that sound? It's the sound of a million R/H Disorder sufferers weeping all over the globe." ;-) >P.S. When I made those comments on the PoU list last week, I didn't mean we >had to start up the shipper discussions again right away, but I sure am >glad they're back, since I find them so much fun! I do too, Kathy. I do too. BTW, could someone send me a comprehensive summary of the R/H Theories via private e-mail? I'd be ever so grateful if you did. Thanks! Best, Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 20:15:31 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:15:31 Subject: My favorite HP book... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10035 ...Prisoner of Azkaban, hands down! Here's ten reasons: 10) The Incredible Aunt Marge Floating Balloon 9) Crookshanks vs. Scabbers 8) The Very Scary Dementors 7) Boggarts 6) The Marauder's Map 5) QUIDDITCH! 4) Professor Remus Lupin, DADA Teacher Extraordinaire 3) Hermione's Secret 2) Sirius Black 1) The Hippogriff Ride ;-) Yes, that was the best in the series so far. I own multiple copies of it... and carry it back and forth with me to school in my overstuffed tote. --Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sun Jan 21 20:19:21 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:19:21 -0000 Subject: fanfic, ships, writing Ron and so on Message-ID: <94fg89+hc4g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10036 hmm, a post all about fanfic. Sorry. Ebony wrote: Writing Ron (and Carole's consulting) has helped to soften his character in my mind. I adored the kid in PS/SS and CoS, started getting a little wary of him in PoA (the whole "Crookshanks ate Scabbers" incident got on my nerves), and by the end of GoF he was my least favorite of the Three. *fervently* Ditto on all of that! I think I misspoke when I said I find Ron hard to write. I left him out of a lot of DD because I thought he *would* be difficult to write and because I had just finished GoF and was annoyed with him; then I forced myself to write him in DS, and now I very much enjoy writing Ron, he's got all sorts of aspects to his character I'd never thought about before, plus, after Draco, he gets most of the good lines. It's really made me start to like a character I didn't like all that much before. Flourish wrote: Of course! In my mind, at least, that's not just the cool thing about fanfic - it's the *purpose* of it. I can go read all the Ginny/Draco I want (or write it; there seems to be a lack of good Ginny/Draco, apart from your DD/DS and Alicia's series - and AngieJ's, of course)." Try Stinkerbell's "Dark Days Are Coming" fic...it's a wonderful G/D. (plus plug plug!) Side question: Why are almost all R/H stories also H/G? (hides from everyone throwing rocks.) I'm not talking about any stories in particular, just this strange and overwhelming...trend. I can't help thinking that if R/H happens in canon, H/G almost definitely won't...I just can't see JKR throwing in with that kind of almost-too-cutesy symmetry. Eb wrote: Also... and this is something I must say... H/H was derived from reading canon. I've been chatting with R/Hers via IM about my story, and I was recently told that I'm H/H because I don't read canon. That amused me. Haven't *all* HP fans and fic writers read canon? *blinks* Like I said before, I'd never read a stich of fanfic when I started writing my story, and I was already quite firmly H/H ... from canon. I have a best friend who is quite firmly D/H from canon, and has never read any fanfic (not even mine.) Though it is evident to even the most obtuse reader that Ron likes Hermione in GoF, I didn't see much evidence that she liked him back. I rather thought JKR was setting Ron up for heartbreak for her own nefarious purposes. I've changed my opinions somewhat since then, but I'd have to side with Penny on one thing-- just because Ron likes Hermione, doesn't mean he should "get" her -- what about Hermione's feelings? Side note on DS (boring to everyone but me)Flourish wrote: "Oh, I totally agree! I'm not trying to dis your writing, Cassie and everyone else because I agree that he needs to be more of a fighter. I was trying to point out that you really only see one side of him in your fic, not that that one side is OOC." *giggles* That's okay. I did not feel 'dissed.' I admit Ron spends a lot of time mad in DS, but then of course he's got a lot to be mad about (more than we currently know) and, like Ebony said, he's the passionate type, the type to express his anger. (Unlike Draco or Harry, who tend to do more of the quiet seething.) Although he did get to be pretty cheery in Chapter 9, which was a big Ronfest with everyone kissing him (even Narcissa!) and making much of him. Perhaps that'll perk him up. Cassie From ZaraLyon at aol.com Sun Jan 21 20:32:10 2001 From: ZaraLyon at aol.com (Rhiannon ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:32:10 -0000 Subject: 'Nother intro post... (somewhat long) Message-ID: <94fh0a+9ili@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10037 Well, yet another Texan in the group. The planets must be strangely aligned or some such thing. I've lurked for a couple of months now, and while I probably won't post too often (I'm a senior in high school, and have some insanely important research projects coming up), I thought it high time I introduced myself. So... I'm 17, female, and I've been obsessed with Harry Potter for about a year now. My initial reaction to my sister's new book (HPand the SS): "God, what a stupid author. She's completely ripped off the legend of the philosopher's stone." Once I had done a little research, though, and found out about the title change, I decided I'd better read the book. I did. I thought it was a decent read, good enough to make me read CoS (which I still find mediocre, at best) and then PoA (my all-time favourite, books 5-7 have a LOT to live up to, IMHO). By the time GoF came out, I was standing in line at BooksAMillion for 3 hours. Ship preferences... Sirius/Remus. My justification: If I can't have them, no other woman will. :) As for H/H or R/H or R/Harry, I really don't care, as long as I can believe it in the story. Here's something to add to the obsession quiz (61%): Did a discussion of the HP books cause you and a significant other to break up? My boyfriend and I very nearly DID break up as a result of a discussion stemming from Hermione's date to the Yule Ball. (He thought that Harry and Ron were being normal guys, and that Hermione should have "dealt with it, and asked Ron before he asked someone else." Being a bit of a feminist, I had serious objections to that statement.) What else about me? I write fanfic, which is available at ff.net. It's a series of songfics, mostly about MWPP et al. Here's a link to my author profile, if anyone's curious: http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=directory- authorProfile&userid=6935 Sorry to be so longwinded, Rhiannon From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sun Jan 21 20:54:17 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:54:17 +0100 Subject: Quoting the hedgehog song Message-ID: <009b01c083ec$5268e320$3f2c07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10038 You may pounce on the cat as he walks on his lone, the mole has a hole into which you can crawl, you must blindfold the basilisk or turn into stone, but the hedgehog can never be buggered at all. *dum-di-dum-di-dum* ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Sun Jan 21 21:08:50 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:08:50 -0000 Subject: something else from the graveyard In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94fj52+ee6j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10039 re: Mrs. Figg: I know this is in the Shameless Plug department, but it just fits so well. There is a page in the Lexicon (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon) that rambles on for a bit about Mrs. Figg, and it includes thoughts about her cats and about the tent the Weasley's borrowed. You can find it if you go to the Lexicon and search for the word Figg, or you can follow this path: Help/About => Puzzles, Mysteries, Red Herrings, etc. Just thought you might like to check it out:) Steve Vander Ark not all that obsessed, just 78% The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 21 21:19:40 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:19:40 -0000 Subject: Why is your favorite your favorite? In-Reply-To: <010301c083e2$ac7266c0$5549d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94fjpc+ldtm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10040 Hmmm...well, I voted for the Prizoner of Azkaban as my favorite as well......It seems to me that that book has the most detail, and the most integrity/consistency. Upon reflection, it is VERY hard to buy the Moody is really Crouch -- he was just too convincing as a good guy (not that there aren't really evil people who could be convincing good guys - it was just hard for me to believe emotionally). Perhaps the Goblet of Fire is too serious for me...I DO like happy endings, and GoF didn't quite have one...whereas, the exultant image of Sirius flying off on Buckbeak culminating with the permission slip for Harry to go to Hogsmeade...now THERE'S an ending..with a terrific epilogue. I love the scene where Harry blows up Aunt Marge, bolts, and finds the Knight Bus. Lupin is a great teacher, and it's wonderful what he does with the Boggart and Neville (little did we know at the time, that he hated Snape in school). It's fascinating getting to more more about James Potter, and the four marauders who all play a very significant role in PoA (with James returning as Prongs. Remember, that when Harry conjured up his first Patronus he didn't know that his father was an unregistered Animagus/stag.) Hearing Sirius' story in the shrieking shack was just great.............(he's not Peter, he's SCABBERS!) I like PS because of its beginnings.....the great scene where Harry hears Hagrid's pounding on the door of the hut, the first view of Hogwarts, the sorting, Harry flies, becomes Seeker..the stuff about Quirrell I don't find very good (with the exception of Ron's chess solution) After I bought the Jim Dale tapes, the Chamber of Secrets became my second favorite, and I've reread it more the second time. I think I'll do a poll about what's everyone's second, third, and fourth favorite. Just one thing, folks, not all women are interested in men sexually (the heterosexual assumption does get a little tiring, now and then), I love Lupin and Sirius, but none of the women in HPland are very sexy (unless you're into Veelas and part Veelas)....probably reflects JKR's orientation. Susan Susan From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Jan 21 21:20:55 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 21 Jan 2001 21:20:55 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980112055.83813@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10041 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: What is your second favorite book? o Philosopher's Stone/Sorcerer's Stone o Chamber of Secrets o Prizoner of Azkaban o Goblet of Fire To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Jan 21 21:22:07 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 21 Jan 2001 21:22:07 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980112127.84107@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10042 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: What is your third favorite book o Philosopher's Stone/Sorcerer's Stone o Chamber of Secrets o Prizoner of Azkaban o Goblet of Fire To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sun Jan 21 21:22:50 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 21 Jan 2001 21:22:50 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980112170.84242@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10043 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: What is your least favorite book? o PS/SS o CoS o PoZ o GoF To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the eGroups web site listed above. Thanks! From Schlobin at aol.com Sun Jan 21 21:34:01 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:34:01 -0000 Subject: PTSD - Harry and/or Sirius In-Reply-To: <010201c083e2$994298e0$5549d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94fkk9+t04g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10044 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > > > And I'll speak from experience on the issue as well: when the people you > most > > depend on abuse you, forming trusting, loving relationships is extremely > > difficult. It also makes you very brave. > > > > You're very probably hooking Hermione up with someone who's suffering from > > PTSD. It could be dicey for them both. > > You think Harry has PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)? Harry hasn't > shown any symptoms of this as of yet...I guess it could be extremely > delayed, and this is one thing that seems unreal about Harry is that he > hasn't shown any repercussions of his 10 years in a closet. I'm not saying > it wouldn't be a realistic response, or that Harry will not have intimacy > issues to deal with, but I hadn't thought of PTSD in association with Harry. > > Now, I have been engaged in a long detailed discussion on whether Sirius has > PTSD with another Sirius fanatic off list, anyone want to comment on this > possibility? > > carole Harry has nightmares (not the ones in GoF), but persistent nightmares. He doesn't really believe that adults are a source for help (no wonder! there was Uncle Dudley, Aunt Petunia, Aunt Marge, Mrs. Figgs and no one at school to notice that he was always wearing baggy clothes and his glasses were always broken and his cousin had everything --- grrrrr) -- he finally starts to trust Sirius and Dumbledore...but you can see the progress as the books progress..but it's a big breakthrough when he realizes in GoF that he wants to talk to Sirius, and remember -- he thinks in the GoF, that he's never been held by a motherly person so that he can cry (Molly at the end. He doesn't have many close friends. In the real world, there would definitely be effects of the abuse and neglect he suffered. I see some effects in the books, and it's one of the reasons that I think it will be long time before Harry enters into a serious intimate relationship (someone with a lot of warmth, empathy, patience and gayety --- I like Hermione, but I don't think she's really the type). Susan From smcfadyen at pivotal.com Sun Jan 21 21:35:15 2001 From: smcfadyen at pivotal.com (Suzanne McFadyen) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 13:35:15 -0800 Subject: Stupid Movie Question Message-ID: <7BE3811FF288D411BFF4009027AFC5040169F0A4@van-ex6.pivotal> No: HPFGUIDX 10045 I saw the poster for the movie yesterday (coming out in November 2001) and its called Harry Potter and the Sorcer's Stone. Am I completely daft - I thought the book title was Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. I even looked at the cover and that's what its called. Have I just been in the Canadian waste land for too long and missed something? Suzanne McFadyen From tiggeranimal at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 21:40:43 2001 From: tiggeranimal at hotmail.com (Laura Laker) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:40:43 -0000 Subject: roman mythology link with dumbledore and minerva Message-ID: <94fl0r+p3h7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10046 Hi, first, I'm a newbie, so sorry if I'm tredding old terrritory here...but has anyone else noticed this: albus dumbledore: albus means white. Dumbledore means bumblebee. Jupiter was the head Roman god who presided over human affiars and made known the future through the heavans. White was the colour sacred to him. Legend also has it that jupiter was nourished by BEES. Jupiter was one of the three chief deities along with Juno his wife and sister and MINERVA. anyone think I'm NOT TALKING CRAP? And if not, who's juno? From rina at love-productions.com Sun Jan 21 21:43:45 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:43:45 -0600 Subject: Intro : ) Message-ID: <008501c083f3$3d4b23c0$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10047 Hi! : ) My name is Rina, I just joined the list about 10 minutes ago. I'm from Illinois (Chicago suburbs); I'm 19, sophomore in college. I got hooked last fall when my mom, who had been reading the books to my brother, bought me my very own copy of SS and forced me to start it. After I started it, there was no need to force me to continue. LOL The first book was wonderful, the second was less so (I still have problems remembering what happened in that one), the third is my favorite, and the fourth is a VERY close second. I just kinda stumbled into the fandom a few weeks ago, when I somehow found a fanfiction list. I am a die hard Ron/Hermione shipper, and have been since the first book. (I have this thing where I figure any time people start out fighting, they end up together. Besides, he felt so bad when he hurt her feelings and made her cry, and I maintain that she felt even worse because it was Ron. LOL) Needless to say, I like the Yule Ball scenes because I can at least imagine things are going my way. Fic wise, I read any couple, but mostly slash because I can't seem to find any good, well-written R/Hs. Help? I put a link to my favorite story, Someone Special, in the fic folder at eGroups, so go check it out. It's Angelina/Fred. : ) I don't write fic for HP (yet?), but I do write for a bunch of other TV shows. Stories and graphics I've made can be found at http://mrs.spooky.tripod.com if you're interested. Well, I think that's about it on me. I'm really looking forward to the discussions and focusing on each chapter of GoF. Makes me very glad I decided to bring it back to school with me this semester. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com From meiko00 at earthlink.net Sun Jan 21 21:42:52 2001 From: meiko00 at earthlink.net (meiko00) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 15:42:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Stupid Movie Question In-Reply-To: <7BE3811FF288D411BFF4009027AFC5040169F0A4@van-ex6.pivotal> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10048 I believe that the UK edition is HP and the Philosopher's Stone. The US edition is HP and the Sorceror's Stone. I'm guessing that since the movie is being done by Warner Bros, which is a US company, they decided to use the US name. That's my guess anyway. Erin who doesn't post much because she's afraid of spoiling GoF which she just started reading. -----Original Message----- From: Suzanne McFadyen [mailto:smcfadyen at pivotal.com] I saw the poster for the movie yesterday (coming out in November 2001) and its called Harry Potter and the Sorcer's Stone. Am I completely daft - I thought the book title was Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. I even looked at the cover and that's what its called. Have I just been in the Canadian waste land for too long and missed something? Suzanne McFadyen From kathleen at carr.org Sun Jan 21 19:10:00 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:10:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Intro : ) Message-ID: <200101212201.f0LM1KC06875@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10049 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Hi! : ) My name is Rina, I just joined the list about 10 minutes ago. Welcome Rina! >I am a die hard Ron/Hermione shipper, and have been >since the first book. Whoo-hoo! Another one for our side! Be warned, Rina, that there is a very vocal H/H element on this list. They can be very sneaky, so don't let them convert you! >Fic wise, I read >any couple, but mostly slash because I can't seem to find any good, >well-written R/Hs. Help? First stop: www.sugarquill.com, which has a slew of very VERY good R/H fanfics by Arabella, Zsenya, Mrs. Weasley, B Bennett, and others. Then, if I may so humbly reference my own "Hermione's 4th Year" series on fanfiction.net, which retells parts of GoF from Hermione's point of view. (You know, when I first started writing fanfic, I didn't want to tell anyone about it and now you can't shut me up. See what this list has done to me?) I was going to suggest some others, but everything I can think of is already on the SugarQuill site. Have fun! Always glad to welcome a new R/H-er to the group. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From tiggeranimal at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 22:21:28 2001 From: tiggeranimal at hotmail.com (Laura Laker) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:21:28 -0000 Subject: Intro : ) In-Reply-To: <008501c083f3$3d4b23c0$37397e82@shelley> Message-ID: <94fnd8+k8k9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10051 Hi! I'm new too so i'ts gr* to c I'm not the only one! I'll tell u sonething. I didn't like Chamber of Secrets much the first time I read it either. Howeve I have read all of the books again now and I actually LOVE it now. That book is very complicated (like GOF) so reading it a second time helps you take everything in a bit better and you notice all the clues sthat you missed the first time around. LL -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Hi! : ) My name is Rina, I just joined the list about 10 minutes ago. > I'm from Illinois (Chicago suburbs); I'm 19, sophomore in college. I got > hooked last fall when my mom, who had been reading the books to my brother, > bought me my very own copy of SS and forced me to start it. After I started > it, there was no need to force me to continue. LOL The first book was > wonderful, the second was less so (I still have problems remembering what > happened in that one), the third is my favorite, and the fourth is a VERY > close second. > > I just kinda stumbled into the fandom a few weeks ago, when I somehow found > a fanfiction list. I am a die hard Ron/Hermione shipper, and have been > since the first book. (I have this thing where I figure any time people > start out fighting, they end up together. Besides, he felt so bad when > he hurt her feelings and made her cry, and I maintain that she felt even > worse because it was Ron. LOL) Needless to say, I like the Yule Ball scenes > because I can at least imagine things are going my way. Fic wise, I read > any couple, but mostly slash because I can't seem to find any good, > well-written R/Hs. Help? I put a link to my favorite story, Someone > Special, in the fic folder at eGroups, so go check it out. It's > Angelina/Fred. : ) > > I don't write fic for HP (yet?), but I do write for a bunch of other TV > shows. Stories and graphics I've made can be found at > http://mrs.spooky.tripod.com if you're interested. > > Well, I think that's about it on me. I'm really looking forward to the > discussions and focusing on each chapter of GoF. Makes me very glad I > decided to bring it back to school with me this semester. > > Rina > ******************************** > "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from > others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who > doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." > --Gillian Anderson > > "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." > --Eleanor Roosevelt > > Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels > Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com From tiggeranimal at hotmail.com Sun Jan 21 22:31:57 2001 From: tiggeranimal at hotmail.com (Laura Laker) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:31:57 -0000 Subject: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: <20010121195344.27845.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <94fo0t+7ldk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10052 Well, I don't thing Harry, Ron or Hermione will die. My money is on Neville and Dumbledore. Neville, I'm not sure why...jsut a weird feeling I ahave...but Dumbeldore surely will. Dumbledore for a start is very old anyway (and harry is starting to notice so in Goblet of Fire) and he is Harry's protector. He is who harry looks up to the most. If you ask me dumbledore will try to intervene to stop Voldemort to try and protect harry one more time but fail. This then will ahrry the determination to finally kill volemort once and for all. From ender_w at msn.com Sun Jan 21 23:01:18 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:01:18 -0500 Subject: Fanfic crossovers References: <94fl0r+p3h7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006d01c083fe$11382d40$eb421e3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 10053 Those of you into fanfiction, what are your thoughts on HP crossovers with...well with whatever? I'm just curious because I have a very bizarre idea for a crossover fic...that I doubt I'll ever write becase a) my head hurts too much, b) I'm too busy and 3) I don't think I could make it work...but ooooh, it would be fascinating. any thoughts on crossovers? ender From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 21 22:54:55 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:54:55 -0000 Subject: A note about the shipper poll I created earliar... Message-ID: <94fpbv+obvt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10054 Hi you guys, I just wanted to note a few things about the shipper poll I created earliar today. It seems that there is a new wave of the thread and I thought it would be interesting to see the results. (So far H/H and R/H are tied!) Anyways I just wanted to point out that you CAN vote for more than one ship. This is not because I expect the H/H's to vote for R/H as well (or vice versa) but because I added some other ships that I myself wanted to vote for in addition to H/H.(ie F/A or Fred/Angelina. I am firmly convinced of this thanks to Ebony and TIP!) Also I HAD to add in the Sirius/Yourself one for Carole and the rest of the siriusly Serious fans. (Erm, reverse that!) This left no room for the no-shippers, but if you're one then just choose other at the bottom... Scott From nickdeller at ntlworld.com Sun Jan 21 22:56:32 2001 From: nickdeller at ntlworld.com (nickdeller at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:56:32 -0000 Subject: Ron in fanfic land: Terminally In-Reply-To: <200101211844.f0LIiuC12082@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94fpf0+t1b4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10055 --- In HPforGrownups at e..., Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== > >See, I'm trying to think of the most plausible way to just get RID of Ron in > >Song of Time. Now that Draco's more than just Evil Nasty Fascist Guy, Ron's > >just so superfluous. > > > >I'm currently tossing between just transferring him elsewhere (perhaps > >making him a student teacher at Durmstrang...) or killing him off. Anybody > >got suggestions > > > >======================================== > >John Walton john at w... > > You're....*choke*....you can't be...*closes eyes in horror*... I rather agree. Ron's not a particular hero of mine, but you fanfic writers can't just keep conveniently killing him whenever it suits the storyline to have him out of the way. Can't he have a horrific but non-fatal accident and an extended convalescence back at the Burrow, or something more along those lines? Nick D. From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 21 23:14:29 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:14:29 -0000 Subject: marvin's fanfic In-Reply-To: <94f4ha+mcpp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94fqgl+hvb6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10056 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long" wrote: > Er, or not. This isn't the most positive of visions. > Assuming HP survives until adulthood, deafeats big V, and doesn't > lose his magic or destroy the wizarding world in the process, he's > going to be the biggest celebrity in the wizzing world (hrm...maybe > that's not such a good euphemism). I've read several fanfics in which that stuff pretty much happens. It happens while Harry is young and he eventually realizes that he has to get his life back together. It happens whle Harry is young and by the time he realizes he hates his gold-digger wifeling, it's too late to do anything about it. My own opinion is that 18-30 yo Harry may like all the casual sex, but he doesn't like the fashionable parties: we haven't seen anything to suggest that he likes small talk, meeting crowds of strangers, taking pains with his clothes... From catlady at wicca.net Sun Jan 21 23:31:57 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:31:57 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups In-Reply-To: <980102633.74426@egroups.com> Message-ID: <94frhd+s38@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10057 NONE of the ships I really like are listed: NO Remus/me No McGonagall/Hooch No Cedric/Cho No Severus/Draco --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, HPforGrownups at egroups.com wrote: > What type of shipper are you? If that's > to hard to decide then what's your > favourite ship? > > o Harry-Hermione > o Harry-Ron > o Harry-Cho > o Harry-Parvati > o Harry-Hedwig > o Harry-Ginny > o Harry-other > o Ron-Hermione > o Ron-Padma > o Ron-Fluer > o Ron-other > o Hermione-Neville > o Hermione-Krum > o Hermione-other > o Draco-Pansy > o Draco-Ginny > o Sirius-yourself > o Sirius-Lupin > o Sirius-Mcgonagall > o Dumbledore-Madam Pomfrey > o Other teacher- other partner > o Lupin-Mcgonagall > o Mcgonagall-other > o Fred-Angelina > o Other From randujar at wellesley.edu Sun Jan 21 23:32:47 2001 From: randujar at wellesley.edu (Rosa M. Andujar) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:32:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: New poll for HPforGrownups In-Reply-To: <94frhd+s38@eGroups.com> References: <94frhd+s38@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10058 HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: >NONE of the ships I really like are listed: >NO Remus/me >No McGonagall/Hooch >No Cedric/Cho >No Severus/Draco There's also No Draco/Hermione. From rina at love-productions.com Sun Jan 21 23:52:48 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:52:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Intro : ) Message-ID: <00c001c08405$4e13d780$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10059 Kathy wrote: <> Oh, my gosh! Well-written fic! Woo-hoo! I thought I had finished all of those off about 2 weeks ago. I'm so excited, and about to head back. Then I'll go searching for your story. LOL And believe me, I'm used to defending "my" couples, so I look forward to any and all debates. That the R/H's will win, because we're so obviously right. ; ) Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mccauley at davesworld.net Mon Jan 22 00:14:59 2001 From: mccauley at davesworld.net (Joe McCauley) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:14:59 -0500 Subject: Hermione the housewife?/fanfic Message-ID: <3.0.3.16.20010121191459.482fd93c@mail.davesworld.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10060 Okay folks, how's this for a fanfic?... Sometime after graduating from Hogwarts, Hermione marries and is soon expecting their first child. But their marriage doesn't last and Hermione is soon a single parent struggling to make ends meet. One day, while sitting in a restaurant she grabs a napkin and starts writing about her experiences at Hogwarts... -- Joe McCauley "What if Rudolph had been an elephant instead of a reindeer?" From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 22 00:31:20 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:31:20 -0000 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) In-Reply-To: <60.ae0a15e.279c8964@aol.com> Message-ID: <94fv0o+2umj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10061 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > That's correct. Ms Rowling has not yet created a character whom I > believe would be happy with Hermione in the long run. I believe that Viktor and Hermione could be happy together in the long run (except that I think JKR is going to kill him, which makes him ineligible for marriage). He has the maturity and class to appreciate her instead of all the pretty ones chasing him. They're both independent types who don't have to always be clinging to each other, so she won't be jealous of his travelling for his Quidditch career and he won't be jealous of her long hours in libraries and labs for her research career. He has his own fame and accomplishments to feel proud of and doesn't need to build up his ego by putting her down. On the contrary, he has enough self-opinion that he can sit back and be supportive of her when she is the center of attention, and just feel that being paired with such a brainy woman adds to his glory. When he retires from his Quidditch career, he can stay home with the kids and be the neighborhood hero: idolized by every kid in the neighborhood because he tells them Quidditch stories and fixes their broomsticks. I think Ginny and Hermione could work the same way, IF they both swing that way AND Ginny transfers her hero-worship from the Famous Harry Potter to First-in-her-year Hermione with 15 NEWTs. Canon Ginny is just a nice kid who expects to get HER glory from her spouse. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 00:48:11 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:48:11 -0000 Subject: Shipper Poll and No-Ship Complaints In-Reply-To: <94fpbv+obvt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g00b+kggl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10062 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Hi you guys, > I just wanted to note a few things about the shipper poll I created > earliar today. It seems that there is a new wave of the thread and I thought it would be interesting to see the results. > (So far H/H and R/H are tied!) Actually... as of 7:40 p.m. EST, we're winning. ;-) A pleasant surprise, actually. Penny's been telling me for months that the fandom is pretty evenly divided on these issues, but I always felt as if I was on the "underdog" ship. 36 fans are a drop in the bucket, but it's still grin-inducing. H/Hers--make sure you vote! (Though I do believe that the R/Hers will win. We're outnumbered!) > Anyways I just wanted to point out that you CAN vote for more than > one ship. This is not because I expect the H/H's to vote for R/H as > well (or vice versa) but because I added some other ships that I > myself wanted to vote for in addition to H/H.(ie F/A or > Fred/Angelina. I am firmly convinced of this thanks to Ebony and TIP!) Thanks! I didn't even think of them as a real ship. They're actually a controlled variable. Reasoning: if I had to pair off R/H on the basis of canon, most of the couples in my fic *had* to have at least a smidge of evidence from canon. Told you it's a science project. ;-) > This left no room for the no-shippers, but if you're one then just > choose other at the bottom... I doubt most no-shippers will vote. Although--most of them are gracious enough to delete shipping posts. To those who are complaining--please start a thread that's more to your liking. There's no law that says shipping and fanfic (my favorite two subjects) have to be the only conversations going on at a time. That's the best way to be a productive citizen of an online community. JMO. --Ebony AKA AngieJ From meiko00 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 00:42:49 2001 From: meiko00 at earthlink.net (meiko00) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:42:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Intro : ) In-Reply-To: <94fnhd+i28l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10063 Hi Rina! Welcome to the list! I'm also fairly new and haven't posted much but I was happy to see someone else from the S'burbs of Chicago. I'm Erin. My husband and I live in Schaumburg. We moved here from Indiana about 3 months ago. Anyway, it's nice to see someone else from the area. Enjoy your stay! Erin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Hi! : ) My name is Rina, I just joined the list about 10 minutes ago. > I'm from Illinois (Chicago suburbs); From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 00:53:46 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:53:46 -0000 Subject: Stupid Movie Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94g0aq+bm8p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10064 I believe the movie, like the books, is going to have one name on one side of the pond and another name on the other. They're even going to do two takes of the few scenes where someone says "philosopher's" or "sorcerer's" stone. Stupidity personified but what can you do? Amy Z an American who knows what a philosopher's stone is and is not scared of the word Philosopher From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 22 00:57:57 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:57:57 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) Message-ID: <4b.66584f9.279cdf95@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10065 Hi Ebony and All, In a message dated 1/21/2001 2:52:48 PM EST, ebonyink at hotmail.com writes: << Hi Elizabeth (who has a nice name... ;) and all:>> Thanks! You have some lovely names yourself. Are you perhaps a Taurus? How can you be wrong? You bought the books (or borrowed them from the library or somehow acquired them). You can read them any way you'd like, or even not read them. If you've bought them, you can use them as coasters if that's what you think they're best for! :) < I really don't expect to see much romance for romance's sake in the canon. If it's there, it like everything else will tie into the main plot. JMO.> I agree. The first four books have certainly not been romance novels. Thank you, and I agree that most of the suicide fics are in poor taste (all of them I've seen so far if you mean HP suicide fics). I tend to avoid them, just as I tend to avoid the Hermione-is-raped-and-becomes-pregnant fics. Now, Pregnant!Draco fics are a whole 'nother matter! ;) Those are just to bizarrely funny to miss. Harry struggling for his place in the world? hmmmmm. I'm not sure I agree that's what's going on. IMO Harry believes his place in the world is to fight Voldy. I'd probably agree with you if I didn't think Ms. Rowling was trying for a more classical style, and if she didn't keep hinting that she plans to kill him off, both in the books and in interviews. I do think she's trying to do so. I'll put it on my TBR list. No! < (I'm serious... I'm now laughing so hard that tears are falling from my eyes!) I'm assuming a lot here, but I take it you don't like Hermione too much... why, then, should Ron have to suffer with her?> I must admit I'm laughing with you, but I don't think Ron should have to suffer with her either. I don't believe I've ever presented a case for the R/H ship, nor do I intend to. You are correct to assume that I don't particularly like Hermione, although I did feel that Ms. Rowling was attempting to create a more likeable version of her in GoF. It didn't work for me as well as it seems to have for others. I almost stopped reading GoF during the Ron/Harry fight section because it was so horribly depressing for me. < Shotgun wedding? When's the baby due? (Giggling again.) I know that a lot of poor quality teenage fics have Hermione pregnant, but (to quote Hermione herself) *honestly*.> No, no, if Hermione gets pregnant it will be with Snape, of course! Sorry... I didn't really know any other good shorthand term for a forced wedding, but the H/H ship has that feel to me, as I have never found any evidence that an H/H ship is something Harry would want. < But--and this is something that the more prominent H/H writers had to bring me around to--Harry enjoys spending time with the Weasleys. Private and introspective though he might be, do you really think the Boy Who Lived wants to live his life as a Lone Ranger?> Sure, as long as he can still spend time with his friends when he wants to. < Why is it that whenever I compliment Hermione, it's seen to be at Ron's expense?> In this specific case, the statement was, "Hermione is the brains of the operation," which seemed to suggest (to me at least) that Ron wasn't adding anything intelligent to the mix. If I misunderstood what you were saying, I apologize. I contend that Ron is actually the strategist of the group, which would require intelligence of him. I<'m also a huge advocate of a balanced Friendship between the Three. Most H/Hers are. I've heard the other side argue either that Harry and Hermione have a sibling relationship,> I must have somehow missed that argument. I don't believe I can agree with it. Seems like Ron and Harry have more of a sibling relationship to me. The H/H relationship seems more distant than siblinghood to me. Yes, they have, but they are Hermione's feelings as experienced by Harry which probably means that some of her feelings don't show up at all and others are filtered through Harry's own experience. Nope, more like Ron can't have her and Harry's not interested so why not go find someone who is interested in her? < perhaps all three might look elsewhere if it wasn't for three things: 1) Impending war speeds along romance... that's a proven fact. 2) I'm an HP Small World advocate... and successful modern marriages are made up of people with some common interests. 3) It's fun to matchmake!> I'm with you up til #3. Matchmaking may be fun for the Matchmakers, but it's not necessarily fun for the Matchmakees. I'll send you some gillyweed and you can hang out underwater 'til then! He might. He also might say, "I'm sorry Hermione, I just don't feel that way about you. I hope we can still be friends." Your fic is on my TBR list as well. So does Harry receive treatment during those years? Is he in Neil's FFA clinic? I'm combining responses here. Carole asks: Symptoms of PTSD include depression, anxiety attacks, flashbacks and memory loss/blackouts. I think Ms. Rowling has shown us evidence of at least 3 of those symptoms (depression, anxiety attacks and flashbacks). I'm not sure whether or not I've seen Harry in a fugue state so far. Sometimes the blackouts (and for that matter, the flashbacks) happen when specific events/sights/sounds trigger them, so it's possible Harry hasn't been triggered yet. I also believe Ms. Rowling uses chocolate as wizard Prozac. Why not? It's not a bad thing. Some people choose not to marry. < If my shipmates and I were unequivocally right, there would be nothing to debate. I also accept Rowling's scenario. But as in the case of LMA, I don't have to like it. Odd though my sentiment may seem, it is my belief and one that I'm free to keep. :-) > I completely agree. You are free to enjoy the books in whatever way you want once you've purchased them. < Hope I didn't sound too belligerent. Kathy can tell you I have nothing but genuine caring and concern for my friends who are suffering from R/H Disorder! (Just kidding, Ron fans... sheathe those claws! Lower those pistols! And by all means--put down those darn pitchforks! LOL!)> I don't think you sounded belligerent at all. Funny, maybe, but not belligerent. Hope you feel the same towards no-shippers as well! All the best, Ebony >> To you as well! Love & Light, *Elizabeth 90% obsessed and proud of it! ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 00:58:35 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:58:35 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10066 Elizabeth wrote: > > That's correct. Ms Rowling has not yet created a character whom I > > believe would be happy with Hermione in the long run. Poor Hermione! (Sigh.) She just can't please some of you guys, eh? Rita wrote: >I believe that Viktor and Hermione could be happy together in the >long run (except that I think JKR is going to kill him, which makes >him ineligible for marriage). He has the maturity and class to >appreciate her instead of all the pretty ones chasing him. They're >both independent types who don't have to always be clinging to each >other, so she won't be jealous of his travelling for his Quidditch >career and he won't be jealous of her long hours in libraries and >labs for her research career. He has his own fame and accomplishments >to feel proud of and doesn't need to build up his ego by putting her >down. On the contrary, he has enough self-opinion that he can sit >back and be supportive of her when she is the center of attention, >and just feel that being paired with such a brainy woman adds to >his glory. When he retires from his Quidditch career, he can stay >home with the kids and be the neighborhood hero: idolized by every >kid in the neighborhood because he tells them Quidditch stories and >fixes their broomsticks. I just had to quote you there, Rita. It's scary, but this actually seems quite plausible! (Certainly more plausible than certain other scenarios that I won't name.) Now... if we can only get him to pronounce her name correctly... or perhaps Hermy-own-ninny will be some sort of schnoogly nickname? :-P --Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 00:56:58 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:56:58 -0000 Subject: Intro : ) In-Reply-To: <94fnd8+k8k9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g0gq+bm8o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10067 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Laura Laker" wrote: > Hi! I'm new too so i'ts gr* to c I'm not the only one! I'll tell u > sonething. I didn't like Chamber of Secrets much the first time I > read it either. Howeve I have read all of the books again now and I > actually LOVE it now. That book is very complicated (like GOF) so > reading it a second time helps you take everything in a bit better > and you notice all the clues sthat you missed the first time around. > Hi Laura! I agree. PA is my favorite but I love CS (don't know how I'm going to decide on my 2nd-3rd-last-ranked). The scene with Riddle is beyond terrific. Also this was the first one I read so it has a tender place in my heart. Also you get the "Harry, Harry, Harry." Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 00:59:24 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:59:24 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups In-Reply-To: <94frhd+s38@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g0lc+q1ge@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10068 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > NONE of the ships I really like are listed: > NO Remus/me > No McGonagall/Hooch > No Cedric/Cho > No Severus/Draco Uh, Rita, honey? Cedric's dead. Ghost of Cedric/Live Cho? Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 01:04:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:04:32 -0000 Subject: Shipper Poll and No-Ship Complaints In-Reply-To: <94g00b+kggl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g0v0+r5uj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10069 Ebony wrote: > Thanks! I didn't even think of them as a real ship. They're > actually a controlled variable. Reasoning: if I had to pair off R/H > on the basis of canon, most of the couples in my fic *had* to have at > least a smidge of evidence from canon. Hmm... I see your reasoning but why look to canon for a 10-years-hence fanfic at all? How many people marry someone they liked when they were 14? Seems to me the reason so many fanfics put any of these folks together as adults is that the authors (and the rest of us) long to see people we know get together. Harry and some Muggle from Dublin just doesn't float our boats. (Or our ships.) But it's just as likely as Harry and anyone from Hogwarts if this were real life. JMHO. Amy Z From fefe at fazekas.hu Mon Jan 22 01:04:38 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (=?iso-8859-1?q?Zsolt_Felf=F6ldi?=) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:04:38 -0000 Subject: Favourite/least favourite books Message-ID: <94g0v6+vhb5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10070 Hi ! When i saw the first poll in this topic, i thought at first that i'll vote for PoA... then i saw that most of the people did so too. PoA is REALLY wonderful. But i finally decided that i won't vote at all because i saw that only a few people voted for the other books (especially CoS), and i thought that this is a bit "unfair". PoA is surely fantastic, but this looked as if CoS was a bad book. It also has the most votes in the "least favourite" poll. I think CoS was a fantastic book, and PS and GoF too, and maybe we shouldn't choose the "best" and the "worst". Well, GoF is a bit different, and i think i don't have to tell you why. But PS is also different. The plot is quite simple (this one was the shortest), but it was the first book where Harry got to know the wizarding world. OK, Cos is not really "special" ad PS and GoF are, but it has good plot and it IS good because it was written by J.K.Rowling. So i decided to not to decide which one is the best. Btw i was surprised seeing that GoF had so few votes. It's really hard to compare GoF to PoA or any of the other books, but i really liked it and so even if i wanted to vote, i could not decide between PoA and GoF. Btw PoA was the first Harry Potter book i've read, maybe that's why i became a fan so quickly. After PoA, i've read PS, CoS and GoF. I was thinking about reading PoA again before reading GoF, but having GoF in my hands, it was impossible :) I've read PoA in the middle of November (i haven't even heard of HP before, my father bought it for himself and he told me it's wonderful), and i finished GoF around Christmas, and until then, i did not have much time for reading because i'm having exams. The next time i read the series i'll read it in good order, and in original British language. Sorry Americans, i can't tell why, i just prefer British English. Btw i really don't understand why did they translate the books from British to American. American kids do not understand (or dislike) British words ? OK, i have to go learning. Bye Fefe From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 01:05:56 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:05:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10071 >Really? You really think Harry will die in Book 7? I just don't know if >Jo could bring herself to kill off Harry. I'd be shocked...not surprised, >at that occurrence. Sheesh, now I will be doing some heavy thinking >tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont know....In this months edition of Biography Magazine, Jo says the last word of her current chapter for Book 7 is "scar".....I think It will be Harry talking about it....I foresee Hagrid as a goner, and I think Mrs. Weasley will die, mainly bc she isnt a MAJOR character to us, but she is very important to Harry, and It will give Ron something to use as a kind of tool for vengeance, more so than Fred Or George. Stephanie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 22 01:06:30 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:06:30 -0000 Subject: Ships(Was: New poll for HPforGrownups In-Reply-To: <94g0lc+q1ge@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g12m+qac0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10072 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > Uh, Rita, honey? Cedric's dead. James and Lily are dead, too, but that's another ship I like very much. I'm writing a serial about them... (shameless plug time) "Lily Potter and a Small Circle of Friends" in this egroup's Files/fanfic/fanfic by Catlady section. Like James and Lily, Cedric and Cho were a darling couple with a great future ahead of them, until Voldemort interfered. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 01:08:30 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:08:30 -0000 Subject: Ships(Was: New poll for HPforGrownups In-Reply-To: <94g12m+qac0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g16e+ehlc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10073 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > > > Uh, Rita, honey? Cedric's dead. > > James and Lily are dead, too, but that's another ship I like very > much. I'm writing a serial about them... (shameless plug time) > "Lily Potter and a Small Circle of Friends" in this egroup's > Files/fanfic/fanfic by Catlady section. > > Like James and Lily, Cedric and Cho were a darling couple with a > great future ahead of them, until Voldemort interfered. I was kidding. But a great future? They dated for 6 months at age 15/17. I can't take it that seriously. Amy Z rapidly turning into a no-shipper From zsenya at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 01:08:55 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:08:55 -0000 Subject: Intro : ) In-Reply-To: <200101212201.f0LM1KC06875@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94g177+n9u9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10074 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > First stop: www.sugarquill.com, which has a slew of very VERY good R/H fanfics > by Arabella, Zsenya, Mrs. Weasley, B Bennett, and others. Then, if I may so > humbly reference my own "Hermione's 4th Year" series on fanfiction.net, which > retells parts of GoF from Hermione's point of view. (You know, when I first > started writing fanfic, I didn't want to tell anyone about it and now you > can't shut me up. See what this list has done to me?) > I was going to suggest some others, but everything I can think of is already > on the SugarQuill site. Kathy - thanks for the SugarQuill plug - you know we are hoping to see yours up there when you finish it! (I can put what's done under "Stories in Progress" if you'd like... From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 01:12:08 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:12:08 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94g1d8+4uhl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10075 Stephanie said: > I dont know....In this months edition of Biography Magazine, Jo says the > last word of her current chapter for Book 7 is "scar".....I think It will be > Harry talking about it.... I think the last sentence will be "something something something," said _________, kissing him tenderly on his scar. Fill in the blank with your favorite ship. JOKE, PEOPLE! Please no soap opera endings, JKR! Amy Z From rina at love-productions.com Mon Jan 22 01:11:01 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:11:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Favourite/least favourite books Message-ID: <00d601c08410$3b7c02e0$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10076 Fefe wrote: <> I think they stopped "translating" after book one. It drives me nuts that they did that - I'd like to read the British version because it's how JKR wrote it. Although there are some confusing differences for little kids (jumper vs. sweater, lemon drop vs. sherbet lemon, etc) it's not that bad, and I think would be a good learning tool. Wish I could get my hands on a British version. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 22 01:15:36 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (msmacgoo at one.net.au) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:15:36 -0000 Subject: shipping poll + a bit of Whinge - surprise! In-Reply-To: <94frhd+s38@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g1jo+41jl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10077 What about Snape and Dubmledore? (I know, I know, you are all revolted and I am the only one who thinks this is remotely possible. But no one else is ever going to love his cannon-y self, all you Snape shippers want to wash his hair first. Draco is far too young, Dumbleodre is the only person who will take Snape as he is. though why he puts up with his bad behaviour I Do Not Know) also I have a thing for stern older women (go figure), so what about Mcgonagall-me! or is that an 'other'? On other notes: 1. Is it only Australian posters that are not getting e-group messages sent to us? 2. I am writing this from the website (which has NO spelling check) and I know I can't spell, you all know I can't spell and I even re-read an old chat script over the weekend in which someone referred to my inability to spell (I wasn't even there - wail!). Oh the MORTIFICATION. So ignore my spelling grumble.. grumble ... LOL storm --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > NONE of the ships I really like are listed: > NO Remus/me > No McGonagall/Hooch > No Cedric/Cho > No Severus/Draco > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, HPforGrownups at egroups.com wrote: > > > What type of shipper are you? If that's > > to hard to decide then what's your > > favourite ship? > > > > o Harry-Hermione > > o Harry-Ron > > o Harry-Cho > > o Harry-Parvati > > o Harry-Hedwig > > o Harry-Ginny > > o Harry-other > > o Ron-Hermione > > o Ron-Padma > > o Ron-Fluer > > o Ron-other > > o Hermione-Neville > > o Hermione-Krum > > o Hermione-other > > o Draco-Pansy > > o Draco-Ginny > > o Sirius-yourself > > o Sirius-Lupin > > o Sirius-Mcgonagall > > o Dumbledore-Madam Pomfrey > > o Other teacher- other partner > > o Lupin-Mcgonagall > > o Mcgonagall-other > > o Fred-Angelina > > o Other From zsenya at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 01:16:52 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:16:52 -0000 Subject: Why I love PoA Message-ID: <94g1m4+pd8b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10078 I just went to the Polls section and noticed that PoA is winning with a 70% approval rating. That makes me happy because it is hands down, my favorite so far. Why? Here are just a few reasons... 1) Introduction of two of my favorite characters - Lupin and Sirius. 2) I loved the whole scenario of Harry running away from Privet Drive. I was so happy to see him actually do that. 3) The ending! The ending is the BEST! The whole last 100 pages or so of the book. I've read it numerous times and still, I'm glued to the book (or the car seat, depending on whether I'm reading or listening to the tapes). I don't think I've encountered a more suspenseful ending anywhere. 4) Harry gets a family - of sorts 5) Hermione has a nervous breakdown - I don't think thats good - but I think that its wonderful the way that JK Rowling deals with her and allows her to recognize her limitations and strengths. It also seems pretty clear to me that Hermione is smack dab in the middle of puberty and JK writes it truthfully. There's more, but those are the main reasons.... From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 01:31:07 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Flourish) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 17:31:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 471 Message-ID: <20010122013107.78048.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10079 > Why is your favorite your favorite? I think everyone's covered Prisoner of Azkaban very well, so I won't go on about it now ^_^ >Jupiter was one of the three chief deities > along with Juno his > wife and sister and MINERVA. anyone think I'm NOT > TALKING CRAP? And > if not, who's juno? Interesting theory... although I doubt that there is a "Juno" figure (she would have shown up by now), perhaps there was at some point in time? We'll have to find out when J.K. tells us. Or we can create it in fanon! Hullo to all the newbies - Rina, are you an X-files nut, too? I am! ::pities the poor people in the UK who have to wait for the latest part of the season:: Also hello to Laura Laker (could you please stop using abbreviations like "u" and "c"? I hate being nitpicky or prudish, but it really bugs me. Thanks ^_^;;) > any thoughts on crossovers? H'm... I've always thought that a Harry Potter/Chrestomanci crossover would be good, and then Katie Bell and Blaise did it for me I didn't get out there in time. I may still do one, though. There's a ton of HP/Buffy and HP/LoTR out there, but I've only seen a couple HP/X-files - I know I want to do one, but I can't get a handle on the characterization of the X-files characters. Does someone know of a good HP/XF crossover? If they do, please point me to it! > This left no room for the no-shippers, but if you're > one then just > choose other at the bottom... Wow, are there no-shippers? Forgive my ignorance, but in the fanfic community you're so scarce! For the benefit of the newbies, I've been christened a "Switzerland" person with (barely any) bias. Returning to a question that came up in the chat earlier today: Does anybody else recieved unsolicited e-mails asking them to join Harry Potter clubs, from people they've never met before? Does anybody else think of this as rude, especially when the e-mail's text reads (verbatim): "Plz join mi HP club thank uthanku thank u PLZ! http:// (omitted)" (yes, this is an e-mail I recieved about five months back. I've gotten others, but they weren't this bad ) ===== -Flourish/Maddy/Nyx Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ L.ca.us++/-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From irisandra at yahoo.com.au Mon Jan 22 01:35:51 2001 From: irisandra at yahoo.com.au (sandra ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:35:51 -0000 Subject: Intro Message-ID: <94g2pn+k7av@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10080 Just found this site which was recommended by a friend, and think it is wonderful to be able to discuss Harry potter on an adult level. Plus, the realtionship question intrigues me to no end! My name is Sandra and I am a teacher in Melbourne, Australia. I am toying with the idea of collecting British and US editions, does that make me obsessed? (GRIN) Looking forward to to reading the fanfic! Sandra From fefe at fazekas.hu Mon Jan 22 01:36:04 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (=?iso-8859-2?q?Zsolt_Felf=F6ldi?=) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:36:04 -0000 Subject: Favourite/least favourite books In-Reply-To: <00d601c08410$3b7c02e0$37397e82@shelley> Message-ID: <94g2q4+nhoc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10081 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: Hi ! > Fefe wrote: > > < i'll read it in good order, and in original British language. Sorry > Americans, i can't tell why, i just prefer British English. Btw i > really don't understand why did they translate the books from British > to American. American kids do not understand (or dislike) British > words >> > > I think they stopped "translating" after book one. It drives me Ooh nooo... They didn't. I've seen the American version of the books, and there is lemon drop instead of sherbet lemon in a later book, and flavor instead of flavour, the same with colour, etc... I think i'll order and read the British books as soon as i finish my exams. nuts that they did that - I'd like to read the British version because it's how JKR wrote it. Although there are some confusing differences for little kids (jumper vs. sweater, lemon drop vs. sherbet lemon, etc) it's not that bad, and I think would be a good learning tool. > > Wish I could get my hands on a British version. That's what i'll do soon. Only if they were a bit less expensive... :( And i want the hardcover books of course :) > Rina Fefe From rina at love-productions.com Mon Jan 22 01:37:22 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:37:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 471 (crossovers) Message-ID: <00e801c08413$ddc69d00$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10082 Flourish wrote: <> I am, I am! LOL Seriously addicted for several years now. I'd be interested in HP/XF fic, too! << any thoughts on crossovers?>> I've always enjoyed crossovers. Sometimes it's a good way to learn about a new show, other times it's just plain fun seeing your favorite characters interact. I've haven't seen many crossovers (I'm NOT counting the HP/Baby sitter club one I found ), but I'm always up for a good one. I've heard ideas about Giles (from Buffy) being a DADA professor, and that would be so much fun. I think he has time for a year between where HP is now and when Buffy started. I come from the POV that just about any two fandoms can be crossed if properly thought through. LOL Rina proud crosser of X-Files and Remember WENN ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rina at love-productions.com Mon Jan 22 01:41:03 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 19:41:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favourite/least favourite books Message-ID: <00ed01c08414$61efed20$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10083 Fefe wrote: <> Blah. LOL Well, I know sherbet lemon is mentioned as Dumbledore's pw in book 3 or 4, so I guess the editor's missed one. I've seen those collector's edition versions of SS in bookstores - I don't suppose those are British-y? I'd guess not from the title but you never know. Although there's no way I could afford a $75 book right now anyway. LOL Where can you order the British ones? UK Amazon? Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 01:57:28 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:57:28 -0000 Subject: What is no-shipping? In-Reply-To: <20010122013107.78048.qmail@web10205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94g428+bqou@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10084 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Flourish wrote: > > > This left no room for the no-shippers, but if you're > > one then just > > choose other at the bottom... > > Wow, are there no-shippers? Forgive my ignorance, but > in the fanfic community you're so scarce! For the > benefit of the newbies, I've been christened a > "Switzerland" person with (barely any) bias. > > Just curious, but what is a no-shipper? a)someone who likes romance, but can't choose a bias? Likes both equally, that sort of thing, will read both. ("R/H or H/H? Both ok with me") b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of the series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") c)someone with strict canon tastes in fanfic who doesn't find any of the romantic relationships in HP fleshed out well enough to care? ("They're just kids. And there aren't any living adults in relationships") d)someone with who would ship if JKR wrote in a one in books 5,6,7 that s/he could be conceivably interested in. ("It would be rather interesting to see (fill in the blank here, usually Sirius or Lupin) with someone, but, well, we shall see.") I'm probably a c or d. > > Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door > Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Ah, a fellow anime/manga fan, I suppose. Charmian From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 02:11:51 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:11:51 Subject: From the destroyer H/H (shamelessly long) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10085 Hi Kathy and all: I had a great reply to this all written out earlier this afternoon, and AOL logged me offline. Trust them for that. All quotes save one are attributed to the original poster. :-) This post is just announcing the Second Coming. We have an all-new round of theories, fics, and other goodies bubbling in our various cauldrons and are prepared to sign up a fresh crop of H/H recruits. (Yes, our previous efforts *did* win recruits.) Think that FITD and Freud were the outer limits of our collective obsessiveness? The Ferris Wheel Theory, The Travel vs. Home Theory, and all sorts of other goodies are headed to a HP4GU list near you. We're just biding our time. ;-) In the meanwhile, here goes nothing.... -------------------------------- >Elizabeth wrote: > >And maybe, just maybe, Harrykins and Hermikins and Ronniekins *all* don't >belong together. Or maybe Harrykins and Ronniekins belong together. But >it is all up to Ms. Rowlings, whom I believe is the Goddess of the >Potterverse. And Kathy responded: >Yes, it's possible...but it would be so much more interesting to have some >romantic tension, of whatever kind, in the Trio. Even if they all do end >up with other people (which I think would be kind of sad in a way). They >have so much together that they can't really share with anyone else. > Me (Ebony): You know, I never thought I'd agree with an R/Her on so much. Of course, deep down I really think Kathy is an H/H Prodigal, who will eventually tire of R/H Disorder and come on home. :-) I wrote earlier: > >Despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are first and >foremost *friends*. Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone ever > >considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down?> Kathy replied: >I think I responded to this once already in another post, but I thought of >something else. I think it's entirely possible that Ron would do such a >thing BUT it would certainly not be right away and it >would certainly still affect the friendship of the Trio. I think that this >is what I was trying to say in reponse to Cassie yesterday. Even if Ron >did date Hermione and then "move on", as she put it, I think it would still >affect they way the three of them interacted, even if Hermione and Harry >never got together. It would have to. Me: Again, I agree with all of the above. Let's hear it one time for the InterShip Cooperation Treaty! In private, some of the H/Hers call it the Ron Problem. What to do with Ron? It doesn't help matters that Cassie has converted a lot of H/Hers to Reformed Dracoism. It's fun finding creative ways and means to deal with Ron. Sometimes he ends up happy, sometimes he doesn't. And sometimes he ends up dead. It's fanfic. We can do what we want. :-) >Not sure who said this (sorry!): > >I must add to this that I don't believe any Object of Desire exists in >Ms. Rowlings' Potterverse. Hermione as written in canon is not flawless >(no, she's not!), and Ginny is um, uncertain (yes, she is!) and most >Objects of Desire are quite deliberately described as such. Kathy responded: >I agree! We shippers have put a lot of our own spin on the characters and >our perceptions of them (often helped by the fanfic). That's part of the >reason that I wanted to try to stay as true to the canon as possible in >mine. (Obviously I have put my own spin on things, adds Kathy quickly, >before Penny jumps in, but I am trying to keep it plausible and true to the >characters as I see them in the canon.) Not that there's anything wrong >with this, mind you, but I think it sometimes confuses things when people >start discussing the canon. Me: This is true. However, no ship can be automatically extrapolated from canon. Most of the H/Hers I know have no interest in fanfic and do not participate in online fandom... their ideas have been formed from canon and from canon alone. ::::::Everyone goggles in shock that Harry and Hermione's protests over Rita Skeeter's articles didn't dismantle the ship!:::::: For the FAQ committee, I had the pleasure of adding the posts from the GoF release weekend into the database. I still remember a ship comment from one of Penny's post-GoF posts: "Actually, it wasn't as bad as we thought it was going to be." :-) Most H/Hers were steeling themselves for H/C, as the pre-release publicity and teasers seemed to indicate this. The R/H tension (on Ron's part) wasn't nearly as anticipated on this list. The woman who wrote *Prisoner of Azkaban* is still at the helm of this series. I trust that her quills will always be sharp, and never run out of ink. I also trust that she isn't done shocking our socks off. Elizabeth wrote: > >I agree that Hermione is one of the brains of the operation. Ron is >another brain of the operation, although of a different (but equally >important) sort. Harry's blessed to have them both to rely on as friends. Kathy replied: >I agree! And I think that one of the main reasons I moved away from >half-hearted H/H shipperdom into full-fledged R/H shipperdom is that fact >that many (not all) H/H shippers sell Ron short, IMHO. MOst H/H fics tend >to set up H and H as this perfect couple and then kind of throw Ron in as >comic relief, if they show him at all. I think Ron as a character has much >more depth than most people give him credit for... Me: Very, *very* big sigh. And sigh again. In my original response post to Flourish, I wrote three positive things about Hermione's character: 1) she's the female protagonist, 2) she's the brains of the operation (quote from Parker, Ron's PoV), and 3) she's the glue that holds the Three together (quote from Parker, again PoV is Ron's). In contrast, I wrote a LONG paragraph that said some very nice things about Ron and some not-so-nice things about my favorite two characters. That paragraph didn't survive the thread beyond my post--but the one nice thing I said about Hermione did. Why is that? Hermione *is* the brains of the operation. Plain and simple. You can't deny that any more than you can deny the fact that Dumbledore adores sweets and the Weasley kids have freckles and red hair. But when I made that observation, I wasn't trying to take anything away from Ron! Quite the contrary. Many of the best H/H writers *do* deal with Ron. Just perhaps not to the satisfaction of some. Cassie's already explained her Ron in DD/DS... here's Ron's role in a few fics with H/H tension or subplot: ******************************************************************** (WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR PoU, ASA, and SoT ARE BELOW!) --In PoU, Ron is Hermione's Hogwarts sweetheart *and* first love. --In ASA, there is an extremely poignant Ron-centered chapter. --In SoT, Ron is full of wit and sarcasm and laughs... and if John doesn't kill him off, may have a love interest that could put Hermione in the shade. --Rhysenn has an excellent new post-Hogwarts fic coming out that deals with Ron very well. ********************************************************************* The "you guys don't deal with Ron" challenge was what inspired me to write *Trouble in Paradise* in the first place. Not only do I deal with Ron... he's at the center of things! He's got all of the dreams-come-true I could extrapolate for him out of canon at this point. He's got Hermione and has had her for their entire adult life. Harry (my absolute favorite character, Elizabeth ;-)) is very much at the margins of my R/H fic. After TiP, one of the ideas I have is to write H/H gone wrong as honestly as I can. Of course, it'll have a much different tone. ;-) As for Harry having PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder)-- *many* H/H writers of all ages have already thought of that possibility. I'd definitely deal with that in any H/H fic... in fact, TiP's backstory deals with it quite extensively, as you'll see. Lori *definitely* deals with PTSD in PoU/STNE, and Penny and Carole will be heading that way soon as well. I've also discussed possible collaborations with Jim Ferer and John Walton, two writers whose work I especially like. Our ship is home to a lot of fun, creative writers who enjoy using canon to produce some of the most interesting and entertaining stories in the fandom. It's also home to a lot of non-writers with extremely good taste... until a month ago, I fell into that category. Basically (as my students love to say), "we are all that!" H/H--the Power Ship. (Hey, it had to be said! LOL!) Kathy concluded: >Quite honestly I am starting to find Harry kinda boring. (Is that >blasphemy?) Yes, Kathy, it is. The inscrutable hero... boring? You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself! To Azkaban you go, without a trial in the Shipper Court of Justice! (giggling) Most H/H fanatics, to our credit, don't think Ron is boring. To us, he's irritating. We don't "do him wrong" because he's a non-entity. We do mean things to him because he gets on our nerves. "Pair him with Lavender! Kill him off! Make him a monk who never gets any!" All right, all right! I'm just kidding. (Or am I?) ;-) I'm serious, this is funny... so is this why a lot of R/H writers pair off Harry and Ginny? You have to admit, Ginny's not the most intriguing character in canon... do you guys feel one boring character deserves another? (Not that I think Harry is boring... far from it! And Ginny, as a Weasley, probably is not boring... she just doesn't hold much interest for Harry at this point. ) --Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From purdymango1 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 02:29:44 2001 From: purdymango1 at yahoo.com (Teresa McKeever) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 18:29:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Manditory introduction, various thoughts (size of school, fan fiction FAQ, etc.) Message-ID: <20010122022944.18160.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10086 I've decided that a "hi, I'm new to the list" mail is going to come off as less irritating than a "hi, I've been lurking for five months" mail, so I might as well do so before I chicken out and go hide again. I'm Teek, and I'm a Harry Potter fanatic. I was given a copy of SS last October or so (of 1999) for a seminar at my school studying why books become popular (the class never actually accomplished anything, sadly enough). Read it overnight and the rest is history. I've accidently (no, not accidentally, quite deliberately) dragged my entire family and all my friends who'd listen into the books, too. My younger sister and myself recieved books 2 and 3 respectively for Christmas, and since I couldn't wait to start them, I read PoA before CoS. (Someone asked this a while ago - I don't think it affected me too badly, though it had me slightly confused while reading PoA... and I did read CoS about 6 hours or so after PoA, so the time lapse wasn't long enough for me to really think about it.)Caved in and started reading fan fiction in April or May, or so. Went to the midnight party dressed as Colin Creevy, so I could interview and pretend to take pictures of adorable children, and had my sister come as Ginny, and my mother come as Mrs. Weasley, and uh.. my father drew the line at dressing up as Hagrid. Something about the pink umbrella was deemed unmanly. Regarding various personal notes: I prefere the American covers - I like the style, I like how the details are worked in but you can't tell what their importance is until after you finish the book, and I think Harry's adorable on GoF. And as to "hve you ever lost a personal relationship because of Harry Potter?" - almost. I keep threatening to sit on my boyfriend and read him all of SS if he doesn't agree to do it on his own, but he continues to send me Tolstoy and Doestoyesky. He just doesn't get it. ;) That said, on with various threads: Favorite Books: My favorite book is PoA by quite a long shot. It has enough going on to sustain me, but doesn't seem cluttered in the way that GoF does, IMO. Harry really came alive to me as a character, especially through his connection with his father. The MWPP connection explained the past to me in a way that I think CoS failed to do - realistically. I'm currently re-reading CoS for the first time since reading DS, though, and the ancient history of Hogwarts has been seeming more pressing and relivant this time. That, and I love the details - the map, Lupin, Snape as a furious and jilted human being, instead of a spiteful character with no explanation, the incredible plot twist,the excitement of the shrieking shack scene, the interaction bewteen scabbers/crookshanks/Padfoot... etc. It's just a wonderful book. Fan Fiction: Ship preferences aside for the moment, I was wondering if anyone had ever compiled a "If you like this, try this:" type listing for fan-fiction. It seems like it would be a useful list for wading through the masses of less-than-enjoyable fiction at ff.n. (as my sister said today at dinner - it's good to see sex scenes in which Hermione doesn't play strip poker. ) It could be done along genre lines, romance lines, AU, future-events, what-have-you. I'd be a useful jumping off point from the fics which are generally recommended, to some of the more obscure, but still worthwhile, stories. I don't know whether or not this has already been discussed for a possible Fanfiction FAQ, or something entirely seperate. Also, not sure whether or not this is a tangent, or not appropriate for this list. Size of the wizard community: A couple points that I haven't heard mentioned before: 1- Someone said that the wizarding community must be fairly large, since Harry sees several wizards during his childhood, and Vernon thinks there's a convention. I'm not sure whether or not actual geography may explain thsi descrepancy (is Little Whinging much larger than Ottery St. Catchpole?), but according to Amos Diggory, there are only 4 families in the Weasley's area. If size or chance doesn't explain it, does anyone have a better explanation? Could the wizard world know where Harry lives? Would they have purposely sought out his town? 2 - there were about 100,000 wizards at the Quidditch world cup. From the way people talk about it, it seems like almost everyone in the wizarding world tries to come, and i'd say better than 50% of England's population might have been able to be there.Can't make any assumptions, though... Does anyone else have any theories about exactly what proportion of the wizarding world would have been able to shut down for a match? It's discused as an opprotune time to make a move, since practically everyone was distracted. Aaannd finally, Post-War Possibilities: Someone (Martin, maybe? oh dear, this isn't making a cohesive impression) wrote that it's likely that Harry would have PTSD after a life and death show down with V. A couple people have said this seems unlikely since Harry's dealt with horrible events well. One, a full-fledged war in which his mentors and loved ones will be threatened and possibly killed would qualify as more traumatic than seeing your parents killed at the age of one. Also, Harry's already shown some signs of disorder, especially after the third task (withdrawl from his friends, re-occuring nightmares, which have come up several times...) He's growing up enough to really understand the complications and reprocusions of his problems. His maturity could effect how he deals with his problems, since most 11 year old children, even severely abused ones, don't get PTSD. I doubt that Harry, after dealing with the war, would be immediately able to form any kind of romantic bond, even with his best friends. It seems probable even Hermione and Ron will be unable to really understand, at least in Harry's eyes. Maybe Lori just got to my impressionable mind first, but I'd say a H/H pairing would only be possible on the "soul-mates" level that most fic writers attribute to them after many years. It seems like a waste of a deep connection to let them off as only a casual dating pair, since it doesn't seem like their type. Ron and Hermione, maybe, but it seems like this Saving the World stuff weighs increasingly heavily on Harry's mind. Alright. That's all for now, and here's my solomn promise to try not to hide in the woodwork, as I'm all too prone to do. Unless I've made an utter fool of myself. - Teek ___ ___ ___ ___ " 'Four to a tray - there is a large supply of pots here - compost in the sacks over there - and be careful of the Venemous Tentacula, it's teething.' She gave a sharp slap to a spoky, dark red plant as she spoke, making it draw in the long feelers that had been inching sheakily over her shoulder." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 02:33:39 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:33:39 -0000 Subject: Shipper Poll and No-Ship Complaints In-Reply-To: <94g0v0+r5uj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g663+nitp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10087 I wrote: > > Thanks! I didn't even think of them as a real ship. They're > > actually a controlled variable. Reasoning: if I had to pair off > R/H on the basis of canon, most of the couples in my fic *had* to have at least a smidge of evidence from canon. Amy responded: > Hmm... I see your reasoning but why look to canon for a 10-years- hence fanfic at all? How many people marry someone they liked when they were 14? Up until the last century? Millions. :-) Marvin initiated a very interesting conversation about what the wizarding world was like... we think that it's both similar and dissimilar to our own. If one argues that it is more traditional (i.e. "they're just kids-- they're not late bloomers at all"), then the conclusion can be drawn that traditional patterns of mating *could* apply. As for my fanfic, it's not a fic for fic's sake at all... it's a science project. And every experiment done according to the scientific method has controlled variables. Interesting--we H/Hers get heat from the R/Hers *and* the no- shippers. ::::wails:::: No one likes us! That's probably because we're right. --Ebony From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 02:41:20 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:41:20 -0000 Subject: Why I love PoA In-Reply-To: <94g1m4+pd8b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94g6kg+708r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10088 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, zsenya at y... wrote: > The ending! The ending is the BEST! The whole last 100 pages or so > of the book. I've read it numerous times and still, I'm glued to the book (or the car seat, depending on whether I'm reading or listening to the tapes). I don't think I've encountered a more suspenseful ending anywhere. The ending kicks posterior, Zsenya... I drafted a paper last semester based on it. It was awesome. > 5) Hermione has a nervous breakdown - I don't think thats good - but I think that its wonderful the way that JK Rowling deals with her and allows her to recognize her limitations and strengths. It also seems pretty clear to me that Hermione is smack dab in the middle of > puberty and JK writes it truthfully. I agree. I could totally relate to her in PoA--it reminded me of my first year of undergrad when I took 18 hours and trying to make all As, worked a 2/3 time job, was a class officer, was pledging a sorority, and still managed to step out and be seen at 1-4 parties a week. I needed a Time-Turner back then! Hopefully, it'll cause her to mellow out a bit more in future books... --Ebony From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 02:44:47 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:44:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Blood of an enemy References: <94d5e8+28gk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6B9E9F.D9A999F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10089 Trina wrote: > Harry was very well tied up at the time Wormtail took his > blood, and although he was "struggling helplessly" he couldn't put up > much of a fight so that nothing was too forcibly taken. I wonder if > it was this little detail that (I know, "so we're back to *that* > again?" ) caused that curious gleam of triumph in Dumledore's > eye. No, it can't be that the blood wasn't taken in the right way, or the spell wouldn't have worked and Voldemort wouldn't be back. I think taking the blood from Harry while Harry was tied up and helpless still qualifies as taking by force. And I think it had to be taken by someone that Harry knew for an enemy, thus knowing himself their enemy (if you know what I mean), so a clandestine bloodletting by Crouch/Moody wouldn't do--Harry was not his enemy. Did that make sense? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 02:49:24 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:49:24 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Crouch was faithful References: <94d8ta+9o55@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6B9FB4.17D71A4E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10090 Mike Schubert wrote: > Sure, he came back to V once he was out of > prison and under his own power, but the fact is he TRIED to renounce > V, and failed. Interesting that V should regard this as a testament to > his loyalty. (Although, like I said, I do recognize that Crouch did > wholeheartedly come back to V at the end. However, I was always > confused, as I had the distinct impression that V kept hammering on > how Crouch had "never wavered". No, no. Crouch, Jr., tried to lie his way out of a bad situation so that he could go on supporting Voldemort. Lying is perfectly acceptable if it is toward a laudable end, and in Voldemort's view, finding and restoring Voldemort is a very, very laudable end indeed. Crouch never stopped trying to get away and help his master. The others, who also lied their way out of trouble (in their cases, successfully), did *not* go seek their master, they sought cushy jobs and forgetfulness of the past. Crouch *was* the only faithful one. His motive in denying Voldemort before the court was to get out and get back to Voldemort, as opposed to the others who denied him to save their own skins. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 02:51:45 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:51:45 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions References: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6BA041.58BFAE1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10091 Scott wrote: > 1. Did you listen to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone on BBC > radio four on Boxing day? Couldn't get it, not applicable. > 5. Have complained to the store clerks about the artwork on HP > merchandise? (I was tempted to do this.) Yes. Rather a lot. They're starting to post warnings about me in the Warner Brothers store. How's that, Scott? One out of eight (I discounted the first two, I couldn't have answered yes from here). --Amanda From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 02:58:53 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 02:58:53 -0000 Subject: Manditory introduction, various thoughts (size of school, fan fiction FAQ, etc.) In-Reply-To: <20010122022944.18160.qmail@web4702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94g7ld+g7is@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10092 Welcome, Teresa... or do you prefer Teek? --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Teresa McKeever wrote: > > Aaannd finally, Post-War Possibilities: > > Someone (Martin, maybe? oh dear, this isn't making a cohesive > impression) wrote that it's likely that Harry would have PTSD after a life and death show down with V. A couple people have said this seems unlikely since Harry's dealt with horrible events well. Oh, I didn't see those posts at all! I agree with this totally. Fics that just pretend that when all is said and done Harry will revel in the fame and become a millionaire playboy make me want to gag. I subscribe to Jim Ferer's Seclusion Theory wholeheartedly. > > I doubt that Harry, after dealing with the war, would be immediately > able to form any kind of romantic bond, even with his best friends. > It seems probable even Hermione and Ron will be unable to really > understand, at least in Harry's eyes. Maybe Lori just got to my > impressionable mind first, but I'd say a H/H pairing would only be > possible on the "soul-mates" level that most fic writers attribute to them after many years. It seems like a waste of a deep connection to let them off as only a casual dating pair, since it doesn't seem like their type. Ron and Hermione, maybe, but it seems like this Saving the World stuff weighs increasingly heavily on Harry's mind. (Very wicked cackle.) Our commander-in-chief does it again. Score yet another recruit in the H/H column. Be sure to vote in the poll, Teek. :-) > Alright. That's all for now, and here's my solemn promise to try not > to hide in the woodwork, as I'm all too prone to do. Unless I've made an utter fool of myself. > No, don't lurk! You're quite welcome around here. --Ebony AKA AngieJ From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 02:59:33 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:59:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) References: <94dsrq+amui@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6BA214.6D8ED567@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10093 Rita Winston wrote: > But I imagine that evil which is not melodramatic is even more > dangerous. Not necessarily. Melodrama is not as predictable as practicality, because melodrama requires the ego to do grand, glorious, weird things which make sense only to the ego, and are viciously hard to predict or guard against. Practial evil, with no ego involved, simply takes the shortest distance between two points, as it were. It seems more dangerous simply because most people can't think practically when you involve a human element. We're more comfortable with melodrama. Even if we can't predict it. Did that make sense? I'm rambling a lot tonight. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 03:02:11 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:02:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT--Narnia order References: <949mcj+5akv@eGroups.com> <02b001c0838a$8c6293d0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> Message-ID: <3A6BA2B2.D380C523@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10094 Simon Biber wrote: > I read the LWW first and watched the TV series (I love the music from > that series...). Then I read TMN and found it so boring... I was 11 or about > that age at the time. I'll have to reread them now. Um, what order are they in now? That's so weird, changing the order. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 03:07:09 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:07:09 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: 101 Easier Ways to Deliver Harry to the Dark Lord (was New member) References: <94ej6g+9bte@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6BA3DC.C1BD991C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10095 Amy wrote: > Your posts put me in mind of the Hitler parallel again and I realized > that it isn't only in fiction that an evil leader is brought down in > this way. Hitler's war effort (so say some historians) was less than > 100% because of his monomania about Jews. And the Slavs. All Slavic races were also ultimately destined for destruction, which is one reason he foolishly warred on Russia too early. > Had he put all his > resources into winning the war, rather than deflecting so many into > the huge machinery of genocide, he could have achieved world > domination and then gone on to wipe out the last of the Jews > unimpeded. He was brought down in part by his own obsession. Yep. Good thing, too. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 03:11:27 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:11:27 -0600 Subject: Blood Ties References: <20010121144813.2086.qmail@web10202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A6BA4DF.C5B5D9D9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10096 Flourish wrote: > now the two share the same blood, Harry > > cannot be killed > > by anyone but Voldemort, without Voldemort dying, > > too. > > At first I found this rather hard to swallow - V > probably would have thought ahead more - but then, > thinking about the fact that he's so secure in his own > powers... you may be on to something! I remembered! I remembered! This is the connection explored in that Dragon movie or whatever, where Sean Connery did the dragon's voice (and personality). The young prince or whatever, who had been revived/saved from death by the dragon, was then tied to the dragon. Their conditions parallelled each other. But in that case, either both lived or both died. If Voldemort and Harry are thus tied, that means Harry must die in order to truly defeat Voldemort, doesn't it? --Amanda From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 03:14:57 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 03:14:57 -0000 Subject: Blood Ties In-Reply-To: <3A6BA4DF.C5B5D9D9@texas.net> Message-ID: <94g8jh+j38m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10097 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Flourish wrote: > I remembered! I remembered! This is the connection explored in that Dragon movie or > whatever, where Sean Connery did the dragon's voice (and personality). The young prince > or whatever, who had been revived/saved from death by the dragon, was then tied to the > dragon. Their conditions parallelled each other. But in that case, either both lived or > both died. If Voldemort and Harry are thus tied, that means Harry must die in order to > truly defeat Voldemort, doesn't it? > > --Amanda Hey, perhaps that explains why JKR has expressed surprise that people are certain Harry will survive the series. If you think about it, a lot of legends do end with a pyhrric vicctory and the hero and villain going down on the ship together (but not, usually, the shipping ship). Have we started another fanrumor here? Charmian From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 03:20:30 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:20:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My favourite HP book... References: <004301c083d3$f2fd5280$153670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A6BA6FE.C1D8AA34@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10098 My turn, my turn! I think I like book 4 the best. While book 3 did introduce some wonderful characters, and started giving more depth to all of them, it is book 4 where I feel like I really "know" some of them, can guess what they're thinking. I feel like I've known them long enough now. And because Snape is the most fascinating to me. In book 4 we see a lot more of Snape when he's *not* in a towering rage over something. Also, as I said somewhere or other, I believe that up until the ending of book 4, Harry has been (for Snape) a walking mass of associations. There is clearly a Past there, with Harry's parents and Snape, whatever that past may be---I think Snape is only now beginning to see Harry for what Harry is, only now beginning to get past all the feelings and emotions Harry raises in him just by existing. This unfolding, and the increase in maturity and perspective in all the characters, makes me like book 4 the best. Then, it'd go book 3, book 1, book 2. --Amanda From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Mon Jan 22 03:20:40 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (Coleen (Tessie) ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 03:20:40 -0000 Subject: Blood Ties In-Reply-To: <3A6BA4DF.C5B5D9D9@texas.net> Message-ID: <94g8u8+vt0n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10099 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Flourish wrote: > > > now the two share the same blood, Harry > > > cannot be killed > > > by anyone but Voldemort, without Voldemort dying, > > > too. > > > > At first I found this rather hard to swallow - V > > probably would have thought ahead more - but then, > > thinking about the fact that he's so secure in his own > > powers... you may be on to something! > > I remembered! I remembered! This is the connection explored in that Dragon movie or > whatever, where Sean Connery did the dragon's voice (and personality). The young prince > or whatever, who had been revived/saved from death by the dragon, was then tied to the > dragon. Their conditions parallelled each other. But in that case, either both lived or > both died. If Voldemort and Harry are thus tied, that means Harry must die in order to > truly defeat Voldemort, doesn't it? > > --Amanda ~~~~~~ That was Dragonheart and it does make since...but maybe he will kill Voldemort and then just loose all of his powers and become a muggle. Well wishfull thinking anyway! Tessie From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 03:27:48 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:27:48 -0600 Subject: Lupin question References: <94fkk9+t04g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6BA8B3.6B54E1AB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10100 Susan McGee wrote: > In the real world, there would definitely be effects of the abuse and > neglect he suffered. I see some effects in the books, and it's one of > the reasons that I think it will be long time before Harry enters > into a serious intimate relationship (someone with a lot of warmth, > empathy, patience and gayety --- I like Hermione, but I don't think > she's really the type). Susan, you're the pro in the field. What do you think of my theory that Lupin, as the first real close adult contact of Harry's, paved the way for Moody to be able to get close to him? Dumbledore is an ally, but not a friend. Lupin was the first adult (that we know of) that Harry got to spend any time with, got to know, and who was concerned and caring. Sirius is his godfather, but they've gotten no quality time. I think if Harry had not developed the friendship that he did with Lupin, that Moody would have had much more trouble with his machinations. Thoughts? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 03:35:16 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:35:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What is no-shipping? References: <94g428+bqou@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6BAA74.B0A423AD@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10101 Charmian wrote: > b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of the > series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm > burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population > issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") That would be me. I think romance isn't the focus of the books, nor yet even a plot device, and discussing the fluff isn't appealing. Especially since most of the characters in question are in their early adolescence. --Amanda, proud no-shipper From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 03:44:17 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 21:44:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My "blood of the enemy" post revisited References: <94f3o8+lqc1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6BAC91.C118B675@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10102 Trina wrote: > Okay, I must clarify my previously muddled post. Yes, being bound to > a tombstone and cut with a rather sharp knife is "forcibly taken." I > do not argue against that whatsoever. What I was thinking, but > didn't express well (or at all, for that matter) is that that given > that this potion seems very complicated and must be done carefully, > perhaps there are *degrees* of the force in which the blood of the > enemy is taken. Therefore, the blood of an enemy who is bound and > can't put up much of a fight (or any at all) causes the potion to > work to a lesser degree than the blood of an enemy who put up a > pretty good fight to keep it in his own body. There's been some discussion on magic on the list, and I think there was an idea that *intent* has a lot to do with the outcome of the spell. The spellcaster's intent works with the spell to produce the result. In this case, I think the operative words are "enemy" and "forcibly taken." Moody, at Hogwarts, could have forcibly taken blood from Harry at any time, but that would not have satisfied the "enemy" parameter. I think *both* sides of the blood-taking have to understand the relationship of enmity for this to work. Moody was not ready to reveal himself, and thus would have had to explain his actions somehow, and thus his relationship as Harry's enemy, and Harry's as his, would not have been perceived by Harry. Harry, as the blood supplier, had to understand himself as the taker's enemy as well. --Amanda From ABoyko at starchoice.com Mon Jan 22 03:45:34 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:45:34 -0400 Subject: Various replies Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE7C@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10103 I moved this list to my work e-mail account because of the sheer # of posts. This week I was out with an ear infection and came back to 702 Harry Potter e-mails! Wow! I deleted some by subject (just not into shipping, merchandise, clotted cream) and have finally slogged through the rest. * I had read PS and C0A when I first learned about this group from Heidi Tandy, but held off joining until I finished the series. And am I glad! I'm glad that we don't have to put in spoilers as well. * I am unable to reread the books except in order. During my last reread, I couldn't find PoA and started in on GoF but it just felt wrong. It took some cleaning to find PoA and then all was right in the world. :-) * As a whole, I tend to stay away from anything not canon. I do it to stay true to the author's vision, and because frankly, it just isn't as good. I do have a significant Star Wars comic book collection from 1982-whenever Marvel stopped publishing, but that's as far as I go. I've only read one HP fanfic and didn't care for it. But, the sheer passion that members of this list have displayed for some tells me that I could be missing something. I'm planning on checking out "A Sirius Affair" when I have time. Angela From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 03:47:34 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:47:34 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A note about the shipper poll I created earliar... References: <94fpbv+obvt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008001c08426$0ef5fe40$3a5fd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10104 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott " > > Anyways I just wanted to point out that you CAN vote for more than > one ship. This is not because I expect the H/H's to vote for R/H as > well (or vice versa) but because I added some other ships that I > myself wanted to vote for in addition to H/H.(ie F/A or > Fred/Angelina. I am firmly convinced of this thanks to Ebony and TIP!) > > Also I HAD to add in the Sirius/Yourself one for Carole and the rest > of the siriusly Serious fans. (Erm, reverse that!) Hehehehe...a category just for me? (carole looks about ...kind of sheepishly) ok now I have to go vote! Thanks for pointing out you can vote for more than 1...I was torn between H/H and Sirius and me...now I can have both! YAY! carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 03:50:19 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:50:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Fanfic crossovers References: <94fl0r+p3h7@eGroups.com> <006d01c083fe$11382d40$eb421e3f@satellite> Message-ID: <008801c08426$727b97e0$3a5fd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10105 ----- Original Message ----- From: "ender_w" > Those of you into fanfiction, what are your thoughts on HP crossovers > with...well with whatever? I'm just curious because I have a very bizarre > idea for a crossover fic...that I doubt I'll ever write becase a) my head > hurts too much, b) I'm too busy and 3) I don't think I could make it > work...but ooooh, it would be fascinating. > > any thoughts on crossovers? > Our own Keith Fraser has done a HP / lord of the rings and is in the midst of an HP/Buffy crossover. You can find these at : http://www.egroups.com/group/HP_FanFiction carole From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Jan 22 03:55:55 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 03:55:55 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" Message-ID: <94gb0b+f7s0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10106 There is only one *tiny* justification for the translation from British into American that I have seen: some fine points of grammar are different enough that American teachers would "count off" if their students used the British forms in class. Here's an example from PS/SS: British: "Slytherin are on the offensive" American: "the Slytherins are on the offensive" Maybe Scholastic has done a service by "correcting" the original version for American kids. Would any teachers (or students) care to comment? -Jim Flanagan From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 03:54:01 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:54:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) References: <94fv0o+2umj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <008e01c08426$f556bd20$3a5fd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10107 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rita Winston" > Canon Ginny > is just a nice kid who expects to get HER glory from her spouse. Where on earth do you get this impression? Just because she is young and has a crush on Harry doesn't in anyway give me the idea that she expects to get her glory from her spouse. I had loads of crushes at age 11, 12. and 13...but even then never thought about deriving "glory" from the object of that crush and certainly not from a spouse. carole From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 03:56:27 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:56:27 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] What is no-shipping? References: <94g428+bqou@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009601c08427$4c7c9d40$3a5fd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10108 ----- Original Message ----- From: " Charmian" > b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of the > series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm > burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population > issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") LOL!!!! Now that would make a great fanfic...where is cassie when you need her! carole From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 22 04:01:08 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:01:08 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trixie (OT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10109 In a message dated 1/20/2001 2:36:53 PM EST, andeinmn at aol.com writes: << > My other major obsession is a book series called Trixie Belden. If > you know this series (or remember it, as it is out-of-print), you > should be noticing a trend... children's books with mysteries! > Heather, any time you want a side discussion about Trixie Belden, email me privately. Trixie was my first big obsession, many decades ago. I still reread them and enjoy them as much as ever. A much better detective than that prissy chick with the roadster!! >> Sorry for the OT post, but I *love* Trixie Belden! Does anyone know of any Trixie lists? Love & Light, *Elizabeth* 90% obsessed and proud of it ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 04:07:56 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:07:56 -0000 Subject: My Favourite Book and other ramblings... Message-ID: <94gbms+qb4i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10110 This is the Story of my favourite book, the possibly not so interesting way I found HP, and other ramblings... There's not a lot of competition when it comes to my favourite book- it's PoA. No, siriusly it is! (Sorry I couldn't resist.) You see I had asked for the HP for Christmas (1999) and had gotten CoS. Apparently my mother hadn't thought to get book one. I realised her mistake and used my B&N gift certificates to buy both SS and PoA- before I ever read a page of any of the books. Looking back I've always liked to buy books but I'm not sure why I got all three Harry books before reading them. Luckily I loved them. I thought the stories were great. But I saw A LOT of similarities b/w SS/PS and CoS. They both seemed rather run-of-the-mill children's fantasy books (YES Penny I KNOW that they aren't just for children). Looking back I'd have to say that it was PoA that really made the HP series something more, at least IMO. BTW, I think, though I can't be sure, that I first heard of the Harry Potter books from Rosie O'Donell. See she IS good for something. Anyways PoA wasn't just about Harry facing his enemy (V) but it was about his facing the demons in his own life. The dementor's embodied his fears. The whole ordeal with SB forced him to face his past. Harry dicovered a lot about himself and WE, as readers, discover a lot about Harry in the book. It's also about his parents (mostly James) and the part with the Patronus is SO touching. Not to mention Hermione is crucial to the plot and I LOVE Hermione... The other books are all great and just b/c CoS is my least favourite (I recall it is one of Jo's favourite's though) doesn't mean it isn't still loads better than many other things I've read. No matter how WONDERFUL the HP books are I would be highly unlikely to be so obsessed with them (especially by the time book V comes out) if it hadn't been for this group and the internet fandom. In fact I hadn't even discovered adult, and semi-adult fandom, when GoF came out. I was a B&N at midnight to buy the book but I was eagerly making excuses "I KNOW I'm too old but I can't help it..." I would never say any such thing now b/c the books ARE NOT just for kids. On a side note- I remember talking to a man at the GoF party who was 50ish or 60ish and he told me all about how he made up stories to tell his grankids but he'd never actually read the books. He actually wanted to know what they were about! (Somehow I don't believe that he had never read them. I mean why ELSE would he have been at the bookstore at midnight on July 7th/8th????) Ahhh well now that I've bored you guys to death.... Scott From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 04:07:55 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:07:55 -0500 Subject: PoU / ASA References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE7C@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <00a801c08428$e66f8380$3a5fd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10111 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > * As a whole, I tend to stay away from anything not canon. I do it to stay > true to the author's vision, and because frankly, it just isn't as good. I > do have a significant Star Wars comic book collection from 1982-whenever > Marvel stopped publishing, but that's as far as I go. > > I've only read one HP fanfic and didn't care for it. But, the sheer passion > that members of this list have displayed for some tells me that I could be > missing something. I'm planning on checking out "A Sirius Affair" when I > have time. Well...there is fanfic then there is Paradigm of Uncertainty... and just on a side note... You might want to start off with Paradigm of Uncertainty (PoU) as A Sirius Affair (ASA) is a prequel to that and we leave out great chunks of explanatory information on the assumption that people have read PoU first. (Lori was 1/2 way through PoU when we started ASA). However, Sirius doesn't figure prominently in PoU. So if you are interested in a fic featuring Sirius and relationships amongst older folks (the story is set in 2001...H/H are 21...Sirius is 40ish), and you can stand some unexplained stuff...primarily with the younger characters plot...by all means check out A Sirius Affair. You can always email me off-list with any questions about stuff that isn't explained. carole From mschub at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 04:16:22 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:16:22 -0000 Subject: Crouch was faithful In-Reply-To: <3A6B9FB4.17D71A4E@texas.net> Message-ID: <94gc6m+pbnh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10112 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > No, no. Crouch, Jr., tried to lie his way out of a bad situation so that > he could go on supporting Voldemort. Lying is perfectly acceptable if it > is toward a laudable end, and in Voldemort's view, finding and restoring > Voldemort is a very, very laudable end indeed. Crouch never stopped trying > to get away and help his master. His motive in denying Voldemort before the court was to > get out and get back to Voldemort, as opposed to the others who denied him > to save their own skins. I thought of that, but can we be sure? I mean, for all we know, Crouch HAD really renounced V, and then the time he spent in Azkaban made him so angry at his father that he decided to go back to him (V, not his father). Of course, I haven't read GoF for a few months now, so I could be forgetting a key passage somewhere where all this is explained. -Mike From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Jan 22 04:01:05 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:01:05 -0600 Subject: Shipping Party Boats ... Anyone for a Cruise? Message-ID: <3A6BB081.BB570DA8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10113 Hi -- Ya'll have been busy this afternoon! Wow -- I think I've been demoted to like cabin-boy or something on our little ship. :--) Kathy said: > Well, that's a new take on the issue! But I think it goes along with what > I said earlier about Ron and Hermione. Saying Harry "should" be with > Hermione because she "likes" him (which, did I mention, I don't necessarily think > she does) is just as bad as saying that Hermione should be with Ron just > because he likes her. > I agree! Whoo hoo -- we agree on something Kathy! (I think we've been agreeing more than disagreeing lately actually ... we finally realized that both sides were saying the same thing: Hermione is still a puzzle). > Those of us with strong preference often say things like "those misguided > __/__ shippers" and tease each other, but I don't think any of us truly > believe that our humble opinions outweigh JKR's universe. > Yes -- it can be light-hearted teasing with no hard feelings! See! We've been using these "ship" analogies today, and I'm now totally picturing party boats. Ebony has dubbed us the SS H/H, and Kathy seems to have tagged her camp with the Good Ship R/H. Might be fun to describe our respective boats, and then we can wave at each other from our respective party "ships." The SS H/H: We have a large interior ballroom with a great swing band (thanks to Lori, who booked it for us months ago). Every night at midnight, blue snow falls in the ballroom (thanks to Cassie). We have a well-stocked bar of course. Our bartender? I'm guessing Crazy Ivan is up to the task. Fellow H/H'ers .... I'm leaving you the opportunity to continue describing our Party Ship .... And, of course, we want to hear more about the Good Ship R/H too! We think our boat's more fun (and less likely to sink in the long-run - mwah haahaahhhaaa -- hope you guys have plenty of life preservers over there. Maybe we should hover nearby to pick off the survivors!). Anyway .... maybe some of you will think the SS H/H sounds like a more fun & welcoming place soon ... > Actually, I think it's entirely possible that she likes them both, and not > in the Harry-is-the-love-of-her-life and Ron-is-a-dear-friend-she-would-never-want-to-hurt way that most H/H-ers > seem to think. The overwhelming message I seem to get from the H/H crowd is > that if she liked them both and wound up dating Ron it would only be because he > was "the easy choice", as he definitely has feelings for her. I think it > entirely possible that she maybe could have feelings for them both, and maybe might > realize that her feelings for Harry are just a crush (collective gasp from > H/H shippers at such blasphemous thoughts) and that Ron is really the one for > her. > She's an adolescent .... so it's perfectly possible that she could find them both romantically interesting (or be confused about her feelings). I don't actually think that if she dates Ron it will be because he's the "easy choice." I think Hermione's a stronger person than that. But, I think she might decide to bury/repress feelings for Harry and date Ron (not because he's 2nd choice but b/c she just unconsciously does this). Then, she might later realize that Ron isn't working out for her. Or, maybe they would end up happily ever after. Or, maybe like Cass did with DD: Harry tells her point-blank that he doesn't return her feelings & so she decides after some time to date Ron (if he's still interested). Then, Harry could change his mind later. Possibilties are endless! Point is: I don't see Hermione not following her heart when it comes to a serious relationship & marriage. Elizabeth said: > I (Penny) said: < I think Ebony was suggesting that *if* Ron knew (or Hermione told Ron) > that her feelings were for Harry and *if* Ron knew or suspected that Harry returned > (or *could* return) Hermione's feelings, would Ron not be a big enough person > to put his own feelings for Hermione to the side, considering that he is first & > foremost friends with them both? IMO, it is not only acceptable but a > show that a person is a bigger person than to let petty jealousy stand in the > way of a budding romance & a continued friendship amongst the three of them.> > > Elizabeth responded: I'll ponder this a bit more, but I'm not entirely sure that suppressing > one's feelings makes one a bigger person. I'm also not sure what you mean by > "could return." Are you suggesting that Ron should put aside his own > feelings if Harry's feelings are unknown? > No, that's not what I'm saying. Here's the scenario: Ron tells Hermione he'd like to date her. She says, "Sorry, but I don't feel that way about you." She either goes on to say explicitly, "I'm interested in Harry," or Ron somehow divines this. Ron figures out that Harry has romantic interest in Hermione, but hasn't said anything because he knew how Ron felt about Hermione. *Or,* Ron thinks that if he (Ron) were to "step aside," Harry might allow himself to develop feelings for Hermione. In either case, would Ron be so jealous & small-minded that he would refuse to clear the way for a H/H romance? I don't necessarily think so. I think we have a fundamental disagreement regarding Hermione's character (I'm not putting in all the quotes here). Elizabeth basically seems to suggest that Hermione is *still* the same bossy know-it-all that she was in SS/PS. I think she's changed and is hardly recognizable as the same person at all. > What about Ron and Hermione both declaring their feelings for each other? > That only works if you're in the school of thought that Hermione likes Ron. I don't think she does. I hope to be passing out the lyrics to Farmer in the Dell soon after Book 5 is released! > I'm sorry if I react harshly to that suggestion, but teasing is a very > major trigger for me and I never find it the least bit humorous. > I don't really know how to respond to this. The shipper debates do involve alot of teasing. If it's too hard for you to take or recognize for what it is (light-hearted banter), then maybe skipping the shipping posts is a good idea. I hope your feelings haven't been hurt, as I'm sure that's not anyone's intention. But, the shipping debates are better off being carried off in a joking, teasing manner than if everyone really had their guns out for a true debate, don't you think? Back to Ebony: > Again, unless JKR avoids romance subplots altogether, they will be a bit > sticky. And they will tie into the master narrative. I said I wouldn't > put money on R/H... but if any romance occurs, I'd be willing to put my money > where my mouth is. > Me too! > Also, Ron should not have to put his feelings on the back burner. I agree with that too. If he likes > Hermione, and *if* Hermione returns those feelings, then they should go for > it. I'll even grin over those scene in canon (ducks away from Penny, who > tosses a rubber Quidditch club in my direction). > Hey, I'm not tossing anything! :--) I agree -- *if* Hermione returns his feelings, then they should be together. Of course, I don't put much stock in that *if* ever coming true either. FITD .... FITD ... Hi Ho the Derry 'O ... oops (lapsed into song there ... sorry). Where were we? :--) > It's also counterproductive to participate in a debate, and then because > you don't like some statements from the other side to declare that the debate > itself is illegitimate. What in the world? > I can always count on you to state things so well, Ebony! Thanks. > This post is just announcing the Second Coming. We have an all-new round > of theories, fics, and other goodies bubbling in our various cauldrons and are > prepared to sign up a fresh crop of H/H recruits. (Yes, our previous > efforts *did* win recruits.) Think that FITD and Freud were the outer > limits of our collective obsessiveness? The Ferris Wheel Theory, The > Travel vs. Home Theory, and all sorts of other goodies are headed to a HP4GU list > near you. We're just biding our time. ;-) > We're having so much fun & merriment over on the SS H/H .... > The woman who wrote *Prisoner of Azkaban* is still at the helm of this > series. I trust that her quills will always be sharp, and never run out of > ink. > > I also trust that she isn't done shocking our socks off. > Me too! > Interesting--we H/Hers get heat from the R/Hers *and* the no- > shippers. ::::wails:::: No one likes us! > > That's probably because we're right. > I think that you've hit the nail on the head, Ebony. No one likes the winner! :--) Penny (signing off at last ....) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mschub at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 04:20:59 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 04:20:59 -0000 Subject: What is no-shipping? In-Reply-To: <3A6BAA74.B0A423AD@texas.net> Message-ID: <94gcfb+us5e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10114 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Charmian wrote: > > > b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of the > > series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm > > burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population > > issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") > > That would be me. I think romance isn't the focus of the books, nor yet > even a plot device, and discussing the fluff isn't appealing. Especially > since most of the characters in question are in their early adolescence. > I'm going to have to agree here. Especially as it's something not really dealt with in the canon (yet?), speculating on the love lives of 14-year-olds just doesn't seem all that exciting to me... But to each his (or her) own... -Mike From summers.65 at osu.edu Mon Jan 22 04:52:40 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 23:52:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 473 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10115 Charmian wrote: > b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of the > series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm > burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population > issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") That would be me. I think romance isn't the focus of the books, nor yet even a plot device, and discussing the fluff isn't appealing. Especially since most of the characters in question are in their early adolescence. --Amanda, proud no-shipper -------- First of all, Amanda, you're absolutely free to be a no-shipper until your dying day if you wish. However I feel compelled to address a few of the comments made above. 1. Overemphasis on romance. The soul of fiction, any kind of fiction whether it be sci-fi, fantasy, mystery, whatever, is the characters and their relationships to each other and the plot in which they find themselves. Romance and friendship are key elements of that. 2. One can write about romance without having it be the entire focus of the story. I'll have to use myself as an example...there is significant romantic element to PoU but it exists within the context of a story with a plot that isn't about romance. 3. Interpersonal relationships are fluff? Perhaps, except that it's what defines us as a species and drives our every actions as people. 4. Early adolescents? Many of us write about the characters as adults. The reason I chose to do so is that I was uncomfortable writing about teenagers. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "What Women Want" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman *************************************************** From slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 04:59:43 2001 From: slytherinkeeper at yahoo.com (Flourish) Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 20:59:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 473 Message-ID: <20010122045943.27970.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10116 Amanda said: > Not necessarily. Melodrama is not as predictable as > practicality, because > melodrama requires the ego to do grand, glorious, > weird things which make > sense only to the ego, and are viciously hard to > predict or guard against. You know, you're right! Many things can be predictable - egomaniacs' ways of doing things, for instance, or (as you said) someone evil who only does necessary things - but melodrama is up to the imagination. Want to wear a crimson cape? Go ahead, you're an evil overlord ~_^. Want to kill off a train of mudbloods? Go ahead! ===== -Flourish/Maddy/Nyx Keeper of the bells on Flourish and Blotts' door Cho no Seishi and Slytherin no Miko Hogwarts Code v1.0 S++++++ WHp.Co++ CHFl+++ CHCo++/- CHMi++++ Bpoa++++ L.ca.us++/-- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 05:03:44 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:03:44 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What is no-shipping? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10117 > > Charmian wrote: > > > b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of >the series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm > > > burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population > > > issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") And Amanda wrote: > > That would be me. I think romance isn't the focus of the books, nor yet even a plot device, and discussing the fluff isn't appealing. >Especially since most of the characters in question are in their early >adolescence. And Mike wrote: >I'm going to have to agree here. Especially as it's >something not really dealt with in the canon (yet?), speculating on >the love lives of 14-year-olds just doesn't seem all that exciting to >me... But to each his (or her) own... Ah, most adult shippers age them up a bit... that's why we read and write fanfic. We're not pedophiles. We're just jumping the gun, so to speak, and having a ball speculating on what the characters will be like as grownups. Discussing the love lives of 14 year old *is* boring. Not to mention annoying when you catch said 14 year old passing a note in class when you're teaching a lesson or oral interpretation or the present perfect tense. ;-) No-shippers, I really admire you guys' resolve, though. It had to be said. --Ebony (who as a Lucy Maud Montgomery fan has no qualms about predicting future matches for kid characters... when you're into Maud, it comes with the territory) <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 22 05:45:43 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:45:43 -0000 Subject: VOTE! (please?) (oversight committee) In-Reply-To: <3A6BA6FE.C1D8AA34@texas.net> Message-ID: <94ghe7+nlmd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10118 We have over 700 members, but only 66 have voted on their favorite or favourite book......too few to call! Please take a moment to vote. Signed, The self appointed oversight committee From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 05:51:38 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:51:38 -0000 Subject: Voldemort the evil overlord In-Reply-To: <20010122045943.27970.qmail@web10206.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94ghpa+uioj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10119 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Flourish wrote: > Amanda said: > > > Not necessarily. Melodrama is not as predictable as > > practicality, because > > melodrama requires the ego to do grand, glorious, > > weird things which make > > sense only to the ego, and are viciously hard to > > predict or guard against. > > You know, you're right! Many things can be predictable > - egomaniacs' ways of doing things, for instance, or > (as you said) someone evil who only does necessary > things - but melodrama is up to the imagination. Want > to wear a crimson cape? Go ahead, you're an evil > overlord ~_^. Want to kill off a train of mudbloods? > Go ahead! Hmmm. I'm going to be contrarian here and argue against evil overlordism in a general sense. I'd have to argue that being a flamboyant, cape-wearing, mwa-ha-ha-ha, pointless-bravadoing, irrational supervillain is overdone in fiction, and is indeed predictable. Why? http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html. (warning, this thing is just toooooo entertaining.) If Wormtail was really a good advisor, he'd mail this anonymously to Lord V, who does all the things that one shouldn't do right and left. Actually, I find Voldy sort of not the best villain he could be, because his motivation is a tad cliched (I mean, listen to the way he talks too), and he does so many foolish things. To the protagonists, all right, these may be unpredictable, but to the reader they are not. (Didn't you just see that, "let's duel, now, HP" coming?) But the Harry Potter books are about much more than the gigantic battle between the forces of good 'n evil, and JKR has introduced moral complexity in them in other ways. >From a reality perspective (but I don't read HP for this type of realism), this sort of fails too, because if the bad person is always doing stupid self-defeating things, how did s/he get so far without getting blasted in the first place? (See, why didn't V just blast Harry/have one of his subordinates kill him/etc.) I find the banally evil villain or well-planning Machiavellian villain far more threatening than the ranting megalomaniac, because we don't suppose that they will defeat themselves. It also makes the hero's achievement much greater, IMO, if we know that it didn't rest partially on the flaws of the villain. Plus, in real life, the nasty person usually isn't loony, just mean, self-centered, and unscrupulous, and succeeds sometimes. Charmian (being verbose today) From ABoyko at starchoice.com Mon Jan 22 05:57:27 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 01:57:27 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: What is no-shipping? Anne, "Grease" Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE7E@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10120 > -----Original Message----- > From: Ebony Elizabeth Thomas [SMTP:ebonyink at hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 AM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: What is no-shipping? > > Discussing the love lives of 14 year old *is* boring. Not to mention > annoying when you catch said 14 year old passing a note in class when > you're > teaching a lesson or oral interpretation or the present perfect tense. > ;-) > I have to chuckle at that first sentence after all the debate over The Kiss last week. I'm not interested in 14 year old's love lives either, but certainly a lot of people here are! > --Ebony (who as a Lucy Maud Montgomery fan has no qualms about predicting > future matches for kid characters... when you're into Maud, it comes with > the territory) > I did end up reading some of the Anne books out of sequence, because I discovered them late, in college, and since I was a poor college student I had to depend on the library and what was available at the time. It actually worked out for me, because then I found out that Anne married Gilbert before all the heartbreak in "Anne of the Island" when she refuses him. Drifting way OT, my father was too cheap to buy the "Grease" soundtrack so he borrowed it from a friend and copied it on cassette. Now, this was 1978, when we had albums, not CDs. He taped the albums and the sides backwards - instead of Album 1, side A, side B, Album 2, side A, side B - he taped Album 2, side B, side A and so on. To this day, I can't listen to my "Grease" soundtrack on CD without feeling it's out of order. Angela From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 22 05:59:13 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 05:59:13 -0000 Subject: Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard (OT) In-Reply-To: <94d9de+r5cm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94gi7h+us30@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10121 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" > wrote: > > I'll be interested in reaction to this story, particularly those who > > interpret any criticism against HP from the so-called Religious > Right as a > > call for censorship > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63583- 2001Jan15.html > > There's a line in this article - > > "Our school is 91 percent minority." > > I laughed out loud for several minutes when I read this. > > > Dai, you left out "from 50 countries" which was the end of the quote. Personally, I can't stand Catcher in the Rye. No one in this article is talking about banning it from the school library which is what most of those religious groups espousing right wing dogma are talking about doing to HP...did I dream all those news stories about libraries and schools banning the book? It is so dreary to read about anyone but white privileged men, isn't it? So pc, so multicultural.... Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Mon Jan 22 06:00:22 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:00:22 -0000 Subject: An interesting bit on dear Stouffer's case. Message-ID: <94gi9m+8qbu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10122 http://www.crosswinds.net/~jsavage/journals/j9912.html#99Dec01 Just running through some of my bookmarked sites, hadn't been to this one in a very long time. Just a few paragraphs, might be of interest to our lawyerly types, or anyone following the Stouffer situation. Kelley From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 22 06:06:32 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:06:32 -0000 Subject: Hp roleplay on a train In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94gil8+apha@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10123 You know those mystery role plays that people do on trains..where you are assigned a category? I think someone should come up with an HP role play /mystery game, charter a train, and those of us in the same area can dress up and play roles.. What do you think? Susan From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 22 06:08:13 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:08:13 -0000 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) In-Reply-To: <008e01c08426$f556bd20$3a5fd63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94giod+u37d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10124 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > > Just because [Ginny] is young and has a crush on Harry doesn't in > anyway give me the idea that she expects to get her glory from her > spouse. I had loads of crushes at age 11, 12, and 13...but even > then never thought about deriving "glory" from the object of > that crush and certainly not from a spouse. Welll, I *should* have said from her 'partner' rather than from her 'spouse', but I was speaking in the context of long-term, adult relationships. Having explained that Viktor wouldn't feel threatened by Hermione's career success *because* he has enough glory of his own, I then had to explain why Ginny wouldn't feel threatened by her partner's glory or career success *despite* having none of her own. Of course I hope that Ginny grows up to be a strong and sucessful woman, as for example shown in PoU, but so far there is nothing of that in canon. Probably it also was wrong of me to say 'expect', as I never meant that it was her *conscious* expectation. Unconscious expectations have a lot of power over people.... I, too, have had loads of crushes from age 11 to the present day, but generally not on people whom I'd never met and never even seen (you could be picky about you and I have never met Sirius or Remus, and never even seen them except in drawings, but that just means I need the right word to say that reading about them in PoA really was a form of meeting them and getting to know them). The difference is Ginny having a crush on Harry based only on having spent her life hearing that 'The Boy Who Lived' had saved the entire wizarding world. All she had a crush on was his glory, fame, high level of magic power. She didn't even recognize him when first they met. From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 22 06:15:53 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:15:53 -0000 Subject: Voldemort the evil overlord In-Reply-To: <94ghpa+uioj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94gj6p+uvlo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10125 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > It also makes the hero's achievement much greater, IMO, if we know > that it didn't rest partially on the flaws of the villain. Isn't that a bit much to ask of an 11 yo hero? As novice fanfic writer, my villains have to be dumb because my heroes aren't smarter than me and therefore can't figure out how to foil smart villains. > Plus, in real life, the nasty person usually isn't loony, just > mean, self-centered, and unscrupulous, and succeeds sometimes. Well, we had that in Lockhart. and Lucius? and Fudge? and Bagman? From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 22 06:24:37 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:24:37 -0000 Subject: Censors Trying to Ban Book About Teen Wizard (OT) In-Reply-To: <94gi7h+us30@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94gjn5+huat@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10126 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > > There's a line in this article - > > "Our school is 91 percent minority." > > I laughed out loud for several minutes when I read this. > It is so dreary to read about anyone but white privileged men, > isn't it? So pc, so multicultural.... Susan, British English being different than American English, I thought maybe Dai just doesn't know that 'minority' means 'of color'. If he was thinking that 'minority' means 'less than 50%', that would explain why he was amused at calling 91% a minority. [Except in certain contexts where one can say 'a majority of one' -- I've heard this anecdote about both Abraham Lincoln and JFK, a Cabinet meeting where the President asked the Secretaries to vote yes or no on some plan. They all voted against it, and the President said '19 No, 1 Yes, the Yes wins.'] Not all white men are privileged -- I see plenty of them looking strung out on Skid Row -- and I think the literary types prefer stories about the loser types. From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 22 06:34:49 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 06:34:49 -0000 Subject: What is no-shipping? In-Reply-To: <94gcfb+us5e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94gka9+4s8j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10127 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Charmian wrote: > > > > > b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of > the > > > series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm > > > burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population > > > issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") > > > > That would be me. I think romance isn't the focus of the books, nor > yet > > even a plot device, and discussing the fluff isn't appealing. > Especially > > since most of the characters in question are in their early > adolescence. > > > I'm going to have to agree here. Especially as it's > something not really dealt with in the canon (yet?), speculating on > the love lives of 14-year-olds just doesn't seem all that exciting to > me... But to each his (or her) own... > -Mike Exactly. JKR takes us to the realm of puberty where Ron is bowled over by the Veela, and Harry is crushed out on Cho, and Ginny is crushed out on Harry, and Viktor is interested in Hermione.Percy and his girlfriend obsess and kiss....(Fred and George don't seem interested in girls on any kind of daily basis at all).. The adolescent crushes are sweet, but only mildly interesting...THAT's why I can't get very passionate or bent out of shape about shipper issues.... Of course human relationships are at the crux of any good story.... but JKR has deliberately kept us away from sex...and mostly from romance....she has happily married couples...Petunia/Vernon; Arthur/Molly; Lily/James; Lucius/Narcissa; Cedric's parents; some adult romance -- Madame Maxine and Hagrid (no one seems to be too interested to discuss their romance? too adult?); a few adolescent crushes. but a lot of solitary adults..Sirius, Lupin, McGonagall, Snape, Dumbledore, Crouch, Moody, ..but the passion in her books is about friendship, (the Marauders, Harry, Hermione and Ron; the loyalty Hagrid and Dumbledore have for each other; the love of parent for child (Diggory; Potter) and the fight for justice against evil. Susan From atelecky at mit.edu Mon Jan 22 09:18:06 2001 From: atelecky at mit.edu (atelecky at mit.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 09:18:06 -0000 Subject: POV in the Harry Potter books Message-ID: <94gtsf+m9u4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10128 Hello, all--I am starting a thread to see what it might turn up; forgive me if the subject has been discussed before. The POV of the Harry Potter books is, I believe (shoving aside recent files on Numerical Methods in C, pushing the vast math stacks away, and blowing dust off my long disused mental file of literary terms) referred to as limited third person. I want to say that we never see anything that Harry does not see, but this is not strictly true; in the first chapter of SS or PS Harry is only a baby, and the narrator lingers briefly inside Vernon Dursley's head (please remind me of the term for that, someone! when a third person narrator is restricted to the POV of one character, and that character's thoughts and opinions come unannounced from the narrator's mouth. . . ). Then, once Dursley has gone to sleep, the narrator stays out of the minds of the characters while relating the circumstances under which the baby Harry was left with the Dursleys. Oddly, just as in the first chapter of GoF, we melt into Harry's point of view with a dream. And the first chapter of GoF is the second time that we see something "outside" Harry for a long period of time, with the narrator traveling for a while inside the head of Frank Bryce. Aside from these two most obvious times when the narrator "leaves" Harry, it is unclear when the narrator is relating a thought or an opinion of Harry's, and when the narrator is making a personal comment on the scene. At the beginning of all of the books, with the "Harry was in fact a most unusual yada yada yada fresh from his first/second/third year at blah blah blah" part, the narrator gives some background independent of Harry in a by no means objective fashion--sort of turning away from the little window into Harry's head to speak directly to the reader. The description of the Dursleys from the very beginning of SS is biting and sarcastic, before Harry's own opinion could ever come into it. There are many times in the Harry Potter books when a character seems dismissed out of hand or too harshly judged, Snape or Neville being examples. As the story progresses, however, both characters have evolved beyond what they started out promising to be. Many of us who have read DD and DS are hoping for similar things to come about with Draco (in an aside, I think it's quite likely; Draco is as yet only a child, and a child who has never seen the true nature of the Dark Side even if he has been raised by a father who follows Voldemort--I personally imagine that at some point, Draco will see some atrocity committed by his father's friends that will make him understand and hate what evil really is (such as in PoU)--but anyhow. . .). How much of our (erroneous) opinions come from the narrator's own comments? Does the narrator have an "omniscient, but still not going to tell you" quality, as if she stands back a bit from Harry's thoughts and opinions and knowledge of events even as she relates them? Where does the narrator allow herself to give an opinion, and is it always, sometimes, or never colored by or identical to Harry's perspective and opinion? Are we meant to trust this narrator, or believe that she is sometimes fallible? Ideas? Alexandra Telecky atelecky at mit.edu From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 11:20:57 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:20:57 -0000 Subject: PoV, US vs UK english, shipper poll and Narnia reading order Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10129 Alexandra wrote: "The POV of the Harry Potter books is, I believe referred to as limited third person. I want to say that we never see anything that Harry does not see, but this is not strictly true; Message-ID: <3A6C1CA5.FBB3EFBD@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10130 Simon wrote: > British: "Slytherin are on the offensive" > American: "the Slytherins are on the offensive" > > Maybe Scholastic has done a service by "correcting" the original version for > American kids. Would any teachers (or students) care to comment?" > > I am neither (well not an student reading English at least) but wish to > comment. I could not find the quote, but would guess that it is part of the > commentary from Lee (I am assuming this in my reply - if incorrect it ruins > my point slightly). If it is commentary, then as it is what Lee is saying it > is perfectly correct. The grammar may not in itself be correct, but that > phrase is typical of sports commentary in the UK. The grammar is correct, so far as I understand it. British English treats collective nouns--like sheep, council, assembly, you know, words that are themselves singular but which refer to multiple members--as plurals for the purposes of subject-verb agreement, and American English treats them as singulars. An example I could think of was from Watership Down, which had the British usage in the sentence, "The council were merciful." This is correct grammar, but sounds odd to American ears, where it would be "The council was merciful." --Amanda From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 12:12:23 2001 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:12:23 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <3A6C1CA5.FBB3EFBD@texas.net> Message-ID: <94h837+ij8c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10131 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda wrote > The grammar is correct, so far as I understand it. British English treats > collective nouns--like sheep, council, assembly, you know, words that are > themselves singular but which refer to multiple members--as plurals for the > purposes of subject-verb agreement, and American English treats them as > singulars. > Unfortunately this is all too true - British English NOW tends to treat collective nouns as plurals but it was not always thus. When I was at school our teachers made sure that we treated collective nouns as singular and I have a big problem with treating them otherwise. At one time I was taught that American English was 'lazy' and the grammar was all wrong - now I think that Merkins are the true guardians of the English language (for all I hate the verb 'to leverage'). Apart from my immediate family, the only people I know who ever use subjunctives are Merkins! Pam From yael_pou at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 12:20:37 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:20:37 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 473 References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10132 Charmian wrote: > b)someone who just isn't interested in entire romance aspect of the > series in general ("who cares about their love lives. What I'm > burning to read is a fanfic that resolves the student population > issue and the wand order thingy convincingly") That would be me. I think romance isn't the focus of the books, nor yet even a plot device, and discussing the fluff isn't appealing. Especially since most of the characters in question are in their early adolescence. --Amanda, proud no-shipper 3. Interpersonal relationships are fluff? Perhaps, except that it's what defines us as a species and drives our every actions as people. Lori Actually, I have to agree with Amanda. I have developed my shippers preferences after reading some good fanfics (yes, i *am* talking about PoU, ASA and DD/DS) But, I've tried to write some fic. I wrote two stories - one is almost entirely romance-free, and the other is very romance-centred, although it has a tangled a-plot. I have to say that i've enjoyed the first one much more than i enjoy writing the second. The whole who-loves-who who-is-broken-hearted what-they-think-of-each-other thingy is exhausting. True, it may be deeper with the 'ships, and having only a-plot may be a bit childish, but IMHO it is much more fun. Truth be said, the reviews for the second fic are much more enthusiastic. *sigh* yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 12:22:33 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:22:33 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <3A6C1CA5.FBB3EFBD@texas.net> Message-ID: <94h8m9+lrum@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10133 Amanda wrote (re "Slytherin are on the offensive..."): <<>> I'd be inclined to use the singular form if the word appeared to be singular. For example, I'd say, "Heineken is an established company," rather than "Heineken are an established company." I must have picked up the American usage Strangely though, "Slytherin are on the offensive ." does not sound wrong to me." I think it has something to do with the fact that some group terms suggest a corporate entity (Heineken) and others suggest a group of individuals (Slytherin). Sheep isn't quite the same as the other examples you give, because the word is exactly the same in singular and plural usage (whereas you could have several councils or assemblies). Would you say "The sheep was grazing in the field" in Am English if there were several sheep? Neil From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 12:37:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:37:32 -0000 Subject: Why is your favorite your favorite? In-Reply-To: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94h9ic+qlgk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10134 PA is my favorite and I don't even think SB and RL are sexy. I second a lot of the things people have listed: Dementors, Neville getting a champion, Quidditch (Wood can die happy now), wondering how Hermione is keeping her schedule (is she splitting herself in 3 and that's why she behaves uncharacteristically?) etc. And I absolutely love Lupin. Wonderful teacher, actually knows something about fighting the Dark Arts, calls students by their first names, knows a thing or two about suffering, stuffs a wad of chewing gum up Peeves's nose. It's my favorite mostly because of the complexity it introduces re: Harry's character and story. We've known from the beginning that this is a child whose parents were murdered but I didn't really feel in my gut what that meant until PA, and the book reveals aspects of him that are at times disturbing to read but way more interesting than boy hero: -his coming to the realization, alone, that what he's hearing is his dying mother, and his ambivalence about hearing his parents' voices -after he learns the story in the 3 Broomsticks, his hatred for and wish for revenge against Black and his sense of alienation from Ron & Hermione (and Hagrid and Dumbledore--everyone he trusts & loves, really) -the mixed feelings of wanting desperately to see his father, almost believing he really will, and then realizing it's himself--the disappointment and thrill of learning that the Prongs-Patronus is his -his refusal to kill Black and Pettigrew -the rise and fall of his hope of leaving the Dursleys and having a real family Then there are the layers we start to see in other characters (apparent on about the 3rd and 4th readings, in my case), namely Sirius, Snape & Lupin. The whole tragedy of Sirius's unintentional betrayal and being framed (that laugh), Snape's having to swallow his hatred of Lupin all year--JKR just lays out the story and lets us imagine what these characters have been thinking and feeling. In Lupin's case, I read and reread the scene on the train and think about what it must have been like to open his eyes and see the likeness of his 12-years-dead friend. Likewise, when Harry hears James's voice for the first time, that's gotta almost kill Lupin. (When he says "You heard James?" I imagine he's feeling some of the same ambivalence Harry is--he's envious--he wants to hear it too, even if it is horrible.) Harry must seem to him like the only other survivor from the Marauders, and yet he (RL) spends the year possibly endangering his (HP's) life with his silence about Sirius. It has to be torturing him. My only complaint about the book: I knew Lupin was a werewolf really early on. The name gave it away. (It did lend a good red herring though. I thought the Sneakoscope was whistling on the train because of him--first I thought he was only pretending to sleep [still a possibility], later I thought it was because he was a werewolf.) Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From yael_pou at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 13:03:39 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:03:39 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grammar question References: <94h8m9+lrum@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10135 I just wanted to thank you all (Neil, Pam, Amanda,...) for this thread. This is the type of information that brought me into fanfic world in the fist place. thanks, yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pbnesbit at msn.com Mon Jan 22 13:13:52 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:13:52 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" In-Reply-To: <94gb0b+f7s0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hbmg+oeht@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10136 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > There is only one *tiny* justification for the translation from > British into American that I have seen: some fine points of grammar > are different enough that American teachers would "count off" if > their students used the British forms in class. Here's an example > from PS/SS: > > British: "Slytherin are on the offensive" > American: "the Slytherins are on the offensive" > > Maybe Scholastic has done a service by "correcting" the original > version for American kids. Would any teachers (or students) care to > comment? > > -Jim Flanagan Well, Jim, I'm not a student nor a teacher (in the strict sense)but, as an American who speaks British English as her preferred language, I have run into trouble--at the very least--blank looks at some of my Britishisms. But I do think it can be gotten around simply by saying that different forms of English are perfectly OK. I grew up reading British versions of British authors & I really prefer it. Just my 2 knuts. Parker (who is going to buy the proper versions now that she has money) From john at walton.to Mon Jan 22 13:30:22 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:30:22 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] British -> American "Translation" In-Reply-To: <94gb0b+f7s0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10137 Jim Flanagan wrote: > There is only one *tiny* justification for the translation from > British into American that I have seen: some fine points of grammar > are different enough that American teachers would "count off" if > their students used the British forms in class. Here's an example > from PS/SS: > > British: "Slytherin are on the offensive" > American: "the Slytherins are on the offensive" > > Maybe Scholastic has done a service by "correcting" the original > version for American kids. Would any teachers (or students) care to > comment? Interesting differences there...as a student of Linguistics, I can happily say that this is one of the "problem areas" in modern grammar, not just in the US, but in the UK too. Pedantically and didactically, the correct usage would be "Slytherin is". Last I checked, however, both "Slytherin is" and "Slytherin are" would be appropriate in both the US and UK (this from V. Fromkin and R. Rodman, "An Introduction to Language", published in the USA and my coursebook for Linguistics). A similar example would be "the committee is/are". There are half a dozen or so non-specific ones in use, and then you can make a singular group noun out of any group of people. "Apple Computer is/are", "the Board of Directors is/are", "England [Football Team] is/are" etc. You see this problem also when people unwilling to use the "he/him/his" pronouns as a generic unspecified pronoun use "they/them/their" instead: "If any student has a problem with this, he (they) should present his (their) case to the Assistant Dean." It's clearly grammatically wrong, yet it's used everyday. Hay, whoo kneads grammar? --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to One Person, One Vote (may not apply in certain states) ======================================== From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 13:34:04 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:34:04 -0000 Subject: Lupin question In-Reply-To: <3A6BA8B3.6B54E1AB@texas.net> Message-ID: <94hcsc+sidi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10138 Amanda wrote: >I think if Harry had not developed the friendship that he did with Lupin, >that Moody would have had much more trouble with his machinations. >Thoughts? Unlike Susan, I am not a pro in the field but I agree. Harry notes similarities between Lupin and Moody as, reading GoF the first time, did I. He's a nutter version of Lupin but shows some of the same kindness, or so we think--I trusted him from the moment he gave Neville the book (evil ironic laughter in background). And Harry naturally can't help liking someone who's that horrible to Draco (Lupin wouldn't bounce a student on a stone floor--his one fault. J/K). BTW on second reading, the first DADA lesson shows Crouch is a real sadist, don't you think? I think he is getting an actual kick out of rubbing Harry's and Neville's faces in the curses that struck their parents. With Neville it's particularly sick assuming that Crouch did torture the Longbottoms as accused. I think when he tells them "I know it's harsh, but you've got to know" he also means that. For him they have to know the power of the Dark Lord because he wants them to be paralyzed with terror. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We don't send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts." -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 13:37:42 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:37:42 -0000 Subject: Crouch was faithful In-Reply-To: <94gc6m+pbnh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hd36+60q0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10139 Mike Schubert wrote: > I mean, for all we know, Crouch > HAD really renounced V, and then the time he spent in Azkaban made him > so angry at his father that he decided to go back to him (V, not his > father). Of course, I haven't read GoF for a few months now, so I > could be forgetting a key passage somewhere where all this is > explained. I lean toward Amanda's explanation. Crouch wasn't in Azkaban long--he "died" there after only a year. I can't currently retrieve GoF to get the details but Padfoot Returns and Veritaserum are the chapters to check. I think he was plotting how to get out from day one and managed it pretty fast. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 13:53:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:53:36 -0000 Subject: POV in the Harry Potter books In-Reply-To: <94gtsf+m9u4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94he10+7g54@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10140 Alexandra wrote: > How much > of our (erroneous) opinions come from the narrator's own comments? > Does the narrator have an "omniscient, but still not going to tell > you" quality, as if she stands back a bit from Harry's thoughts and > opinions and knowledge of events even as she relates them? Where does > the narrator allow herself to give an opinion, and is it always, > sometimes, or never colored by or identical to Harry's perspective and > opinion? Are we meant to trust this narrator, or believe that she is > sometimes fallible? > Ideas? Alexandra, I don't have time to give these final questions thought, but I just wanted to thank you for the excellent post. I've been thinking a lot about POV--I don't think enough authors pay attention to its impact. In my latest rereading I've paid a lot of attention to JKR's POV choices and I have noticed only two chapters that get into anyone else's head--first chapter of 1 and 4--and only a couple of times where we see something Harry can't: e.g. what's going on in the stands during Quidditch in the first game ever (we don't know what anyone is thinking, though, just what they're doing). JKR uses these shifts judiciously and very effectively. Maybe one reason people find chapter 1 of GF so jarring is that it departs from Harry's POV. We aren't sufficiently taught to notice these things in the way we're taught to read fiction IMO. Ebony and Allyson will instruct the next generation, though, won't you? Amy Z From malinaschick at hotmail.com Sat Jan 20 18:16:17 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 13:16:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My mirror of Erised Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10141 > >Getting back to reality. If you were to look in the Mirror of Erised, what >would you see? > This is a really hard question, I'm gonna have to picture it for a minute...The mirror shows you you're desire. I think if this were true then I'd see something along the lines of the following: A small chruch, candlelit. The pews are full of people and at the front are the bridesmaids, groom's me. In the middle I'm in some sort of beautiful wedding dress with a tall dark and handsome groom next to me. I think my mirror of erised would show me getting married because my biggest misson in life is to fall in love, it's what I was made to do. Love is such a wonderful thing to me. That's what my mirror of erised would be, I'm willing to bet on it. @~~~ Steph (Who is another stephanie and knows the feeling of having many "stephs" around...take band for instance...) "I'm not sure I can come out on the other side of this." -Tobey "I'm not either." -POTUS _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Mon Jan 22 14:26:56 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:26:56 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] My mirror of Erised Message-ID: <01c0847f$5f508780$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10142 >If you were to look in the Mirror of Erised, what >would you see? Myself at the official premiere of "HP and the PS" (which, of course would be a wonderful movie), with JKR and Alan Rickman sitting next to me ;-) Monika From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 22 14:33:22 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:33:22 -0000 Subject: A Photo Op for Lockhart (filk) Message-ID: <94hgbi+hf1g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10143 A Photo Op for Lockhart (from CoS, Ch. 4) (to the tune of The Lullaby of Broadway) (THE SCENE: Flourish and Blotts bookshop in Diagon Alley. A large banner proclaims that Gilderoy Lockhart will be signing copies of his autobiography Magical Me. A large enthusiastic crowd of female admirers, both middle-aged witches and Hogwarts students ? including Hermione ? is crowded around him. A small and rather bored group of photographers and reporters are also crowded around Lockhart, who clearly relishes being the center of attention. Off to one side are HARRY POTTER and RON WEASLEY, watching the proceedings with considerable skepticism. The manager of the shop moves forward to introduce Lockhart) BOOKSTORE MANAGER Flourish and Blotts is proud to hold a photo op for Lockhart The hunkiest author of all time who fought against the Dark Arts Whether traveling with trolls or voyaging with vampires His magic prowess conquered all . CHORUS OF FEMALE ADMIRERS ..but you're preaching to the choir Oh, we can tell with just one glance this guy is total beefcake HARRY & RON We have the feeling we'll find out he's just a flake CHORUS OF PHOTOGRAPHERS & REPORTERS Say cheese, Lockhart! Say cheese, with your copy of Magical Me CHORUS OF FEMALE ADMIRERS (brandishing their copies of Lockhart's book) Oh please, Lockhart! Oh please sign my copy for me! LOCKHART Thanks for coming here today to purchase my best-seller Just like all my other books, I'll guarantee it's stellar Look who's out there in the crowd, if it isn't Harry Potter! (LOCKHART pulls the resistant HARRY over to him. The photographers crowd in for more pictures) Come up, Harry, take a bow, let me tell you how this quarter That I'll be teaching you at school the Art of Darkness Defense Evil forces never faced a rival more intense (LOCKHART piles upon HARRY a complete set of his books, who staggers under their weight ? more flashbulbs go off) ALL (except HARRY and RON) Say cheese, Harry! Say cheese with a complete set of my/his books LOCKHART (aside to Harry) Say cheese, Harry See how far you'll get on good looks (HARRY retreats back to RON's company) HARRY (aside, simultaneously with below) Now I can see that Gilderoy is a pure schnook. LOCKHART (aside, simultaneously with above) Once again my faithful fans have taken my hook (Exit all except HARRY and RON) HARRY and RON Good night DADA Good night, no learning this year there'll be Good night, DADA On this we both agree DADA's been stashed away under Lockhart and key! - CMC From meiko00 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 14:56:45 2001 From: meiko00 at earthlink.net (Erin) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 08:56:45 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A Photo Op for Lockhart (filk) Message-ID: <01C08451.3FF4D040.meiko00@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10144 *applauds* Where do you all come up with these? They're amazing!!! Erin On Monday, January 22, 2001 8:33 AM, Caius Marcius [SMTP:coriolan at worldnet.att.net] wrote: > A Photo Op for Lockhart (from CoS, Ch. 4) > > (to the tune of The Lullaby of Broadway) From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Mon Jan 22 15:05:25 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:05:25 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] A Photo Op for Lockhart (filk) Message-ID: <01c08484$c00cfcc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10145 I love it! I love it! I love it! Can you write one about Snape, pleeeease? Monika From aichambaye at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 15:13:55 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:13:55 -0000 Subject: Intro / Thanks to all! In-Reply-To: <94g2pn+k7av@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hinj+q56b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10146 Hi Sandra! Don't I know you in another life! I love this place. I don't jump into the debates much but I wanted to say everyone that I am reading the list AVIDLY, and thanks to all of you who ARE debating! Heather M. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "sandra " wrote: > Just found this site which was recommended by a friend, and think it > is wonderful to be able to discuss Harry potter on an adult level. > > Plus, the realtionship question intrigues me to no end! > > My name is Sandra and I am a teacher in Melbourne, Australia. > > I am toying with the idea of collecting British and US editions, does > that make me obsessed? (GRIN) > > Looking forward to to reading the fanfic! > > Sandra From msl at fc.net Mon Jan 22 15:28:45 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:28:45 -0000 Subject: Lupin question In-Reply-To: <94hcsc+sidi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hjjd+c1qh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10147 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Amanda wrote: > > >I think if Harry had not developed the friendship that he did with > Lupin, > >that Moody would have had much more trouble with his machinations. > >Thoughts? > > Unlike Susan, I am not a pro in the field but I agree. Harry notes > similarities between Lupin and Moody as, reading GoF the first time, > did I. He's a nutter version of Lupin but shows some of the same > kindness, or so we think--I trusted him from the moment he gave > Neville the book (evil ironic laughter in background). And Harry > naturally can't help liking someone who's that horrible to Draco > (Lupin wouldn't bounce a student on a stone floor--his one fault. > J/K). I suspect that Harry would have trusted Moody the moment he bounced Draco around, Lupin or no. When I was Harry's age, the image of the gnarly, crusty old coot that Moody presents would have been fascinating--hypnotizing, even. Add to that a personality that immediately recognizes the rottenness of my "sworn enemy" and we'd be talking about a pretty instant bond, or at least an instant desire to bond if instinctive reluctance still remains. > BTW on second reading, the first DADA lesson shows Crouch is a real > sadist, don't you think? I think he is getting an actual kick out of > rubbing Harry's and Neville's faces in the curses that struck their > parents. With Neville it's particularly sick assuming that Crouch did > torture the Longbottoms as accused. > > I think when he tells them "I know it's harsh, but you've got to know" > he also means that. For him they have to know the power of the Dark > Lord because he wants them to be paralyzed with terror. That, and, "You don't KNOW the power of the dark side. Now you will learn the true meaning of the Force, er, Curse!" :-) One thing about this scene...perhaps for Harry, Moody/Crouch's sadism was a familiar echo of life at the Dursleys. I wonder if, being accustomed to rough brutality whenever an adult wanted to teach him a lesson, Harry had a blind spot that might have prevented him from suspecting as inappropriate Moody's use of the imperius curse on students. I remember that when I first read this scene, I thought, "Finally! Moody knows what he's doing and will give the kids the education they need!" Upon further reflection, though, Crouch/Moody reminds me of those bad martial arts instructors who beat up their students just for the hell of it: "This is how strong you could be!" Whap! "Don't show weakness!" Whap! "Learn to take it!" Whap! "It's for your own good!" Whap! And so on, using the premise of "self-defense" to indulge himself in others' defenselessness. marvin ps - I wonder how Crouch would have felt if he learned that Harry escaped in part because he was resistant to the imperius curse...something Crouch apparently neglected to tell his master. From msl at fc.net Mon Jan 22 15:43:02 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:43:02 -0000 Subject: marvin's fanfic In-Reply-To: <94fqgl+hvb6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hke6+p6cf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10148 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long" wrote: > > > Er, or not. This isn't the most positive of visions. > > > Assuming HP survives until adulthood, deafeats big V, and doesn't > > lose his magic or destroy the wizarding world in the process, he's > > going to be the biggest celebrity in the wizzing world (hrm...maybe > > that's not such a good euphemism). > > I've read several fanfics in which that stuff pretty much > happens. It happens while Harry is young and he eventually realizes > that he has to get his life back together. It happens whle Harry is > young and by the time he realizes he hates his gold-digger wifeling, > it's too late to do anything about it. My own opinion is that > 18-30 yo Harry may like all the casual sex, but he doesn't like the > fashionable parties: we haven't seen anything to suggest that he > likes small talk, meeting crowds of strangers, taking pains with his > clothes... Well, I was partly being tongue-in-cheek, but it's an obvious enough possibility that I ought to have guessed others would have played with it before now. One thing about the clothes and parties, though...if other people are going through all the effort (for the sake of getting close to you) then the nice clothes and adoration are things that people have been known to get used to I think I saw someone mention in passing a "seclusion" theory or some such. Would this be a case in which Harry retires from life, a bit like Frodo Baggins, too traumatized by his experience to want to be very involved in the world anymore? From pennylin at swbell.net Mon Jan 22 16:03:37 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 10:03:37 -0600 Subject: Another Plea re: Subject Headings (Please Read!) Message-ID: <3A6C59D9.D37D7102@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10149 Hi -- I'm still getting lots of messages with the subject heading that says "Re: Digest No. 473" for example. I'm really in the mode of deleting messages with a subject heading that doesn't interest me at this point. I've got gestational carpal tunnel for one thing. But also, we have such a high volume of messages that reading *all* of them is just too time-consuming anymore. I will be updating/maintaining at least a few of the FAQs -- so it's really really really becoming important that people pay more attention to subject headings. Another huge plea to people who are receiving digests: *Please* put in a relevant subject heading (take pity on those of us who are doing the FAQs if nothing else). If you fail to heed this, the result may be that great thoughts you've just composed may get ignored by people who would appreciate them and/or respond and may get missed by the person maintaining the relevant FAQ. THANKS! Penny The Moderator Team From amyfrank400 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 16:15:56 2001 From: amyfrank400 at hotmail.com (Amy Johnston) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:15:56 -0500 Subject: Star Wars.... and FICTIONAL politicians Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10150 >From: nlpnt at yahoo.com >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Star Wars.... and FICTIONAL politicians >Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 18:18:14 -0000 > >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Belinda Susan Rodrigues > wrote: > > > > Yup, there are lots of fun parallels between Star Wars > > and HP. I once drove myself crazy by using Episode 1 > > as the basis of an argument against JKR doing a > > prequel series once she finishes all seven books. My > > main point was that prequels for for Star Wars because > > we know nothing about Luke and Leia's parents. Then I > > tried to recount just how we know so far about Lily > > and my argument crumbled before my eyes... > > > >Has anyone else here read the "Star Wars" novels, particularly the >New Jedi Order series? The Empire has atrophied to a small corner of >the galaxy and a new republic called (wait for it..) the New Republic >runs most of the galaxy from Coruscant. Anyway... > > In NJO, the leader of the New Republic is an alien named Borsk >Fey'lya who at first refused to believe the NR was being invaded from >outside the galaxy (aahh, space opera!), then refused to publicize it >and devote appropriate military resources to it all the time >threatening the careers of those who *were* taking action, including >Luke Skywalker, who now runs (take a wild guess!) a training school >for Jedi! > > Another thing I think of with Fudge is "Yes, Minister"; Corny seems >to combine the worst traits of Jim Hacker and Sir Humphrey. > I am a die-hard Star Wars fan, as well as Harry Potter. And a few years ago I read a number of the post-Star Wars series books. They seem to me to be a lot like HP fanfic in their taking already existing characters and sending them down roads (galaxies) Lucas didn't write himself. One interesting book detailed what happened between ESB and ROTJ - and filled up a number of holes quite nicely. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if JKR/Warner Bros. will allow for independant series to be developed, though I would think that it wouldn't happen until after the original 7 have been completed. Any thoughts? Amy J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 22 16:26:01 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:26:01 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <94h8m9+lrum@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hmup+fbst@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10151 "Flying Ford Anglia" wrote: Sheep isn't quite the same as the other examples you give, because the word is exactly the same in singular and plural usage (whereas you could have several councils or assemblies). Would you say "The sheep was grazing in the field" in Am English if there were several sheep? In American English (I just happen to have a grammar book handy!), collective nouns are treated singular or plural depending upon the context. Thus, if one needs to draw attention to the individuals then the the collective noun is treated as singularly. For example, The committee granted its permission to build. ('Committee' is treated as a single entity.) The committee put their signatures on the document. ('Committee' is treated as individuals.) :-) Milz From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Jan 22 16:28:01 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:28:01 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94hn2h+mp7s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10152 Here are some additional differences in grammar, punctuation, and spelling between the British and American editions. Several of these are so trivial that they may just reflect the proofreaders' preferences. Here's what I've found so far: Difference British American Period after abbreviations no period period such as Mr and Mrs Quotation marks (first level) single quote double quote Use of commas more commas fewer commas Capitalization after ellipsis capitalised not capitalized in quotations Spelling: -ise vs. -ize -ise -ize Spelling: -our vs. -or (e.g., colour) -our -or Spelling: defence vs. defense defence defense Spelling: the day before Hallowe'en Halloween All Saints Day Past participle of "to get" [had] got [had] gotten (Note: Webster's 9th Collegiate Dictionary [American] lists both got and gotten without preference.) Collective nouns, singular vs. plural plural singular (Another member has noted that the plural usage is associated with British sports broadcasts, and that collectives may be used as singular in other venues.) OT Digression #1: One thing that is noticeable on certain BBC programs that are rebroadcast over here is the omission of the article adjective in phrases such as "at table" and "to hospital." Americans would say "at the table" and "to the hospital." The BBC usage sounds posh and pedantic to my ears, so I'd like to ask any Brits or Aussies who've read down this far: are "at table" etc. in everyday use? Does this usage vary by dialect area? I haven't seen any examples in the HP books, so if anyone sees one please let me know and I'll add it to the list, which may become part of the International Editions FAQ. OT Digression #2: One of the stranger things that I have done all my life is comparing the translations of John 3:16 in different languages when I'm in a hotel room that has a Gideon Bible. I remember that there were several pairs that were remarkably similar, but which were given as separate languages (e.g., Danish/Norwegian and Dutch/Afrikaans, as I remember). But there was only *one* English language. I guess that being part of this group has turned me into an Anglophile, because for some reason, I really like the fact that British and American (and Canadian, and Australian, and New Zealand...) English are considered to be the same language. [Did I mention that this was a digression?] Just my 2d (0.8333 new pence) Jim Flanagan --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > Jim Flanagan wrote: > > > There is only one *tiny* justification for the translation from > > British into American that I have seen: some fine points > > of grammar > > are different enough that American teachers would "count off" if > > their students used the British forms in class. Here's an example > > from PS/SS: > > > > British: "Slytherin are on the offensive" > > American: "the Slytherins are on the offensive" > > > > Maybe Scholastic has done a service by "correcting" the original > > version for American kids. Would any teachers (or students) care > > to comment? > > Interesting differences there...as a student of Linguistics, I can > happily say that this is one of the "problem areas" in modern > grammar, not just in the US, but in the UK too. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 16:32:36 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:32:36 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <3A69017E.22F21CFF@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94hnb4+990m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10153 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I definitely agree with Lori and others that there must be more to infant > Harry's defeat of Lord V than just Lily's sacrifice & layer of protection. He > and his Death Eaters waged a long & seemingly costly war against both the > wizarding & muggle populations. It hardly seems likely to me that not one > single person other than Lily Potter tried to save or died to save another human > being during that war. I think there's definitely something special about > Harry. I don't think we'll know it all though until after Book 7. > I've been thinking long and hard about this since it was pointed out to me that while Lily's sacrifice may have protected Harry from death, it wasn't what caused Voldemort to loose his power. I think I've come up with a rather simple theory that fits in with the way I'd like to see the world. I've been searching the archives and haven't found anything similar mentioned yet, so I thought I'd share. I started with the most common theory as to why Voldemort wanted Harry dead - that there was a prophecy or something that Harry would bring about Voldemort's downfall. If that turns out to be untrue, then my theory doesn't really work. First, I found Voldemort's description from ps/ss of what his life had been like since his fall in chapter 17: "See what I have become?" the face said. "Mere shadow and vapor... I have form only when I can share another's body..." Now let me quote Firenze from ps/ss chapter 15, The Forbidden Forest: "The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure and defenseless to save yourself, and you will have but a half-life, a cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips." So what if it's as simple as Voldemort loosing his power because of that? Harry was a pure, defenseless infant. Now the fact that Harry didn't actually die might mess things up, but I figure it's still ok because Voldemort *did* perform the killing curse. Of course that may just be me trying to plug up holes in my theory... What do you guys think? kimberly From NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com Mon Jan 22 16:42:35 2001 From: NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com (NOTaMuggleFamily at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:42:35 EST Subject: Trixie lists Message-ID: <4d.66e2cbb.279dbcfb@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10154 There is an email list, of course, for 'girl books' and Trixie is often discussed...this is one of my loves as well! I also adore Judy Bolton and Donna Parker. ~shahara eGroups : Girls_Series this one is great =) eGroups : Bobwhites very quiet =( shahara lefay pagan priestess vegetarian homeschoolers radical momma of 5 --TerraSoLuna-- From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 16:48:04 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:48:04 -0000 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD (was re: marvin's fanfic) In-Reply-To: <94hke6+p6cf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ho84+51gd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10155 Marvin wrote: > Well, I was partly being tongue-in-cheek, but it's an obvious enough > possibility that I ought to have guessed others would have played with> it before now. One thing about the clothes and parties, though...if> other people are going through all the effort (for the sake of getting close to you) then the nice clothes and adoration are things that people have been known to get used to > > I think I saw someone mention in passing a "seclusion" theory or some> such. Would this be a case in which Harry retires from life, a bit like Frodo Baggins, too traumatized by his experience to want to be very involved in the world anymore? Hello-- Jim Ferer (I think) and Jim Flanagan have written both essay posts and fanfics to describe this phenomenon. As I stated before, I agree strongly with them. I also believe that not only would Harry be affected, I think that his entire generation would be traumatized to a certain degree. I tend to think of the Marauders as part of the "Lost Generation"... we don't know many of them in canon, but from what we've seen, V. didn't just play pattycake the last time around. Weren't significant PTSD trends noted in Europe between the world wars and Japan post-Hiroshima/Nagasaki? Holocaust survivors also fall into this category (I'm wondering if mass post-WWI and Great Depression-induced PTSD aided the rise of fascism in Germany)... as do survivors of any genocide. Last semester, I had the privilege of reviewing a volume of literacy/technology case studies in which two participants were refugees from Somalia and Cambodia. In my fic, Angelina Johnson is one of many thousands wounded in the coming war. She definitely had to deal with PTSD, and she wasn't even on the main front... how much more, then, would Neville? Or Ron? Or Hermione? This is why I think close interpersonal relationships (never mind shipping for the moment) would inevitably form amongst students who were at Hogwarts in the nineties under Dumbledore, who at this point is the only ultra-prominent wizard who believes that V is back. It's a matter of empathy... you can only understand what someone has gone through on a fundamental level if you've walked in their shoes for a mile or two. I also agree with Jim Ferer's premise that if Voldemort is defeated, the wizarding world (if not consumed) would have to change. Name a major Muggle war that did not alter human life in some way... :::sounds of crickets chirping::: As for Harry, *if* he can defeat Voldemort *without* getting killed and *without* destroying the wizarding world and *without* getting completely corrupted by a necessary close proximity to pure, unadulterated evil... not only would he have post-traumatic stress disorder to deal with... he *would* be regarded as a messiah figure. The question then would be, how would he deal with that can of worms? I'm still trying to form my opinions on that issue. Thoughts? --Ebony AKA AngieJ From amyfrank400 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 16:50:30 2001 From: amyfrank400 at hotmail.com (Amy Johnston) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:50:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] some questions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10156 On Sat, 20 Jan 2001 16:21:31 ender wrote: > >I'm writing a fanfiction and I'm have some trouble with details because I'm >down here in Georgia and my HP books are 700 miles away, so I was hoping >y'all might be able to answer some questions for me. > What part of Georgia are you in. I'm in Indiana now, but originally from Stone Mountain. Amy J. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 22 17:04:44 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:04:44 -0000 Subject: OT--Narnia order In-Reply-To: <3A6BA2B2.D380C523@texas.net> Message-ID: <94hp7c+9isa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10157 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Um, what order are they in now? That's so weird, changing the order. > > --Amanda The order of publication The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe Prince Caspian The Voyage of the Dawn Treader The Silver Chair The Horse and His Boy The Magicians Nephew The Last Battle The publisher's suggested order of reading the series. The Magicians Nephew The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe The Horse and His Boy Prince Caspian The Voyage of the Dawn Treader The Silver Chair The Last Battle :-)Milz (whose grammar suffers when she doesn't proof read before posting!) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 17:08:26 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:08:26 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's Strategy (was Loss of/Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94hnb4+990m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hpea+rn8l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10158 Penny wrote: > > I definitely agree with Lori and others that there must be more to infant Harry's defeat of Lord V than just Lily's sacrifice & layer of protection. He and his Death Eaters waged a long & seemingly costly war against both the wizarding & muggle populations. It hardly seems likely to me that not one > > single person other than Lily Potter tried to save or died to save another human being during that war. I think there's definitely something special about Harry. I don't think we'll know it all though until after Book 7. > > And Kimberly wrote: > I've been thinking long and hard about this since it was pointed out > to me that while Lily's sacrifice may have protected Harry from death, > it wasn't what caused Voldemort to loose his power. You're right. The one problem is that we don't know *what* Lily's powers were. We do know now that Lily needn't to have died. (I've read theories and fanfics ranging from the plausible (she wasn't a direct descendant of Gryffindor) to the ridiculous (Muggle-born Lily was a secret Death Eater!). I thnk that the combination of her sacrifice *along with* something innate in baby Harry caused his protection and V's downfall. What I'm wondering is that if all of our "There's Something About Harry" inklings prove correct--if he could have protected his parents and completely Voldemort if he was fully matured. Prophecy detractors say that if there WAS something special about Harry--some "messiah figure" prophecy--we would have heard about it by now. Again--Harry was in the wizarding world three years before he heard the Sirius Black "story". There is still a lot that he doesn't know, doesn't particularly care to know, and that has been kept from him. Going back to Voldemort, I have to wonder what magical means he could devise to kill Harry. Even if the Killing Curse ("Avada Kedavra") is the worst in this milieu (I very seriously doubt that for some reason), I doubt very seriously that Voldemort would try it again. I'm also not sure how effective it would be. Harry can indubitably be killed by the regular Muggle means, although if I were Voldemort, I'd try decapitation or multiple gunshot wounds... I get the strange feeling that hanging, single bullets, electric shock, and incineration wouldn't be quite so effective... especially as Harry matures in magical ability. So the question that will compel us for the next three books is: What will Voldemort's strategy be? Also, what is Voldemort's main objective--power? Revenge? Genocide? Spreading the Death Eater "gospel"? Or all of the above? I have my own half-baked theories. What are yours? --Ebony AKA AngieJ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Mon Jan 22 17:15:58 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 22 Jan 2001 09:15:58 -0800 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] My mirror of Erised Message-ID: <20010122171558.25000.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10159 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 17:31:18 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:31:18 -0000 Subject: More Obession Questions In-Reply-To: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hqp6+jd8b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10160 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > Ok here are a few more questions that weren't on Dr.MM's quiz but if > they had of been my score would have been higher.... > > 1. Did you listen to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone on BBC > radio four on Boxing day? > 2. Even though you're not British? > 3. Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly > dubbed your "wand"? > 4. Do you own the Harry Potter pens and alernate them according to > you mood? (i.e. Snape when you're feeling nasty or Hermione when > you're feeling smart) > 5. Have complained to the store clerks about the artwork on HP > merchandise? (I was tempted to do this.) > 6. When picking a Latin name for your Latin Class made the most > obvious choice- Sirius! (of course) > 7. Actually ENJOYED tasting the "Bertie Blotts Every Flavour Beans" > including the yucky ones. > 8. Have found have developed other interest/obessions partly b/c of > HP. (i.e. Fantasy Books, Anglophilism etc...) > > Can anyone else say "yes" to these besides me? > > Scott Heck yeah, Scott! In fact, I went to Restauration Hardware and bought a 'real' magic wand. Granted it's plastic with a core of air, but it's still a wand! And I have it at work, where I regularly point it at people/things and mutter, although so far I've gotten nothing but odd looks in return. Oh, and add to that the fact that I've decided I'm one of the super-minor characters in the book (Moon, who was mentioned in the sorting scene of ps/ss, and hasn't come up again - yet!) and I think I deserve some extra points. Only 39% obsessed, kimberly From nykteris at polbox.com Mon Jan 22 17:40:47 2001 From: nykteris at polbox.com (nykteris) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:40:47 +0100 Subject: Crookshanks Message-ID: <00e601c0849a$781a6680$06614cd5@default> No: HPFGUIDX 10161 Hi! What d'you think - is Crookshanks an Animagus? K. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 17:44:50 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:44:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grammar question References: <94h8m9+lrum@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6C7191.9AE67E24@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10162 Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > Sheep isn't quite the same as the other examples you give, because > the word is exactly the same in singular and plural usage (whereas > you could have several councils or assemblies). Would you say "The > sheep was grazing in the field" in Am English if there were several > sheep? Sorry, I was trying to illustrate collective nouns without thinking of how they'd fit into the discussion at hand. Give me a break, it was five in the morning. zzzzzzzz --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 17:48:47 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:48:47 -0600 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] My mirror of Erised References: <01c0847f$5f508780$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <3A6C727F.38F73AE1@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10163 Monika Zaboklicka wrote: > Myself at the official premiere of "HP and the PS" (which, of course would > be a wonderful movie), with JKR and Alan Rickman sitting next to me ;-) Oh, lord, that's *so* much better than mine....can I sit behind you? Or on the other side of Mr. Rickman? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 17:54:19 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:54:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin question References: <94hjjd+c1qh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6C73CB.6FC2FE63@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10164 Marvin Long wrote: > I suspect that Harry would have trusted Moody the moment he bounced > Draco around, Lupin or no. When I was Harry's age, the image of the > gnarly, crusty old coot that Moody presents would have been > fascinating--hypnotizing, even. Add to that a personality that > immediately recognizes the rottenness of my "sworn enemy" and we'd be > talking about a pretty instant bond, or at least an instant desire to > bond if instinctive reluctance still remains. It had been discussed that Harry's upbringing had made him very standoffish towards others, especially adults. This might be why we hear so very little about other students--he runs with the two close friends he's made, and doesn't seem to seek, or want to seek, more. As for adults, he's been close to almost none, and Lupin was the first taste of what a friendship with an adult could be like, which is very important at Harry's age. It's been my thought that Lupin helped mellow Harry's perception and got him to be more willing to trust. I'm wondering how Crouch's betrayal of the trust will affect Harry in book 5. By the way, all you other loners out there, I'm not saying there's a thing wrong with having only one or two friends--that was my style as well. I'm just saying that making friends with someone doesn't tend to occur to Harry; they tend to make friends with him. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 17:55:42 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 11:55:42 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Another Plea re: Subject Headings (Please Read!) References: <3A6C59D9.D37D7102@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A6C741D.CB8E1487@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10165 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > I'm really in the mode of deleting messages with a subject heading that > doesn't interest me at this point. I've got gestational carpal tunnel > for one thing. But also, we have such a high volume of messages that > reading *all* of them is just too time-consuming anymore. You new guys, if you missed that "gestational" in there, Penny's pregnant. Which means she's grumpy, if memory serves. Better do what she wants. --Amanda From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 22 17:55:13 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:55:13 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10166 In a message dated 1/20/2001 8:21:17 PM Central Standard Time, harry_potter00 at yahoo.com writes: > 1. Did you listen to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone on BBC > radio four on Boxing day? Didn't have access to it, but would have it I could have. > 2. Even though you're not British? > Yes, I would have, even though I'm not British. > . Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly > dubbed your "wand"? > I have a wand collection and a wand rack that I created to keep them on. > . Do you own the Harry Potter pens and alernate them according to > you mood? (i.e. Snape when you're feeling nasty or Hermione when > you're feeling smart) Not yet. Where can I get some? > 5. Have complained to the store clerks about the artwork on HP > merchandise? (I was tempted to do this.) Yes. > 6. When picking a Latin name for your Latin Class made the most > obvious choice- Sirius! (of course) I'm not taking Latin. Maybe I should choose a "work name." > 7. Actually ENJOYED tasting the "Bertie Blotts Every Flavour Beans" > including the yucky ones. Yes. During the Christmas holiday, we (meaning my family) picked out what we thought were the booger flavored beans and set them aside as a challenge. My sister ended up being the first to eat one. > 8. Have found have developed other interest/obessions partly b/c of > HP. (i.e. Fantasy Books, Anglophilism etc...) Yes, I've been sucked in to the Gundam Wing fandom, read the "Anne" books and discovered slash fic. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 18:02:53 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:02:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort's Strategy (was Loss of/Harry's Special Powers) References: <94hpea+rn8l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6C75CD.62468A92@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10167 ebonyink at hotmail.com wrote: > You're right. The one problem is that we don't know *what* Lily's > powers were. We do know now that Lily needn't to have died. Point: do we know this for any other reason than Voldemort said it? Because Voldemort is, among other things, a truly sadistic bastard and he might have told Harry this to hurt him. When he was after Harry and Lily was in the way, he would have said anything to get her out of the way. So unless there's corroborating evidence, I mistrust this a bit. > Prophecy detractors say that if there WAS something special > about Harry--some "messiah figure" prophecy--we would have > heard about it by now. Why? If it was Trelawney's first prediction, take a look at how her second was received. Harry heard it, told Dumbledore, that's it. Since Dumbledore is the only person to mention this first prediction of hers, perhaps only he, and a very few others, know what it was. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 18:07:41 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:07:41 -0600 Subject: My mirror of Erised References: <979979688.595.15504.l10@egroups.com> <000401c08306$3cf670c0$36b191d8@computer> Message-ID: <3A6C76ED.A72BDDC3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10168 Rachelle Elliott wrote: > IGetting back to reality. If you were to look in the Mirror of Erised, what > would you see? This is getting back to reality? Seriously, now, let me think. My mirror would show me, about 80 pounds lighter, with a small son who was chattering nonstop, against a background of stacks of money. --Amanda From monika at darwin.inka.de Mon Jan 22 18:10:18 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:10:18 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? In-Reply-To: <010301c083e2$ac7266c0$5549d63f@oemcomputer> References: <94elle+10ksj@eGroups.com> <005301c083c2$2cbc35c0$a82907d5@oemcomputer> <00a401c083ca$ac72a1c0$02a6bacc@allyson> <010301c083e2$ac7266c0$5549d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <0nno6tgd2so1r1bdciah1grnt9df9cotqb@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10169 On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 14:45:13 -0500, "Carole Estes" wrote: >Two words...Sirius Black.... Not much to add here... He's also my favorite. Now you all know it.... *g* Oh, maybe Lupin, I really like him, too. I don't get tired of that lovely scene when he teaches Neville how to fight his very personal boggart. I love to picture Snape dressed like Neville's grandma. Other favorite scenes: Harry taking anti-dementor lessons with Lupin and finally conjuring up his Patronus at the end of PoA. Hermione punching Draco on the nose. The Marauders insulting Snape when he tries to use the map. The scene in the Three Broomsticks, where Harry learns that Sirius is his godfather. And of course the unfolding of Sirius' tragic story in the Shrieking Shack... Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From monika at darwin.inka.de Mon Jan 22 18:10:19 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:10:19 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] A note about the shipper poll I created earliar... In-Reply-To: <94fpbv+obvt@eGroups.com> References: <94fpbv+obvt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10170 On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:54:55 -0000, "Scott " wrote: >Also I HAD to add in the Sirius/Yourself one for Carole and the rest >of the siriusly Serious fans. (Erm, reverse that!) This is greatly appreciated. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From rlpenar at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 18:15:39 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:15:39 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's Strategy (was Loss of/Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94hpea+rn8l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94htcb+r8qv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10171 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ebonyink at h... wrote: > Penny wrote: > > > > I definitely agree with Lori and others that there must be > more to infant Harry's defeat of Lord V than just Lily's sacrifice & > layer of protection. He and his Death Eaters waged a long & > seemingly costly war against both the wizarding & muggle > populations. It hardly seems likely to me that not one > > > single person other than Lily Potter tried to save or died to > save another human being during that war. I think there's > definitely something special about Harry. I don't think we'll know > it all though until after Book 7. > > > > > And Kimberly wrote: > > I've been thinking long and hard about this since it was pointed > out > to me that while Lily's sacrifice may have protected Harry > from death, > it wasn't what caused Voldemort to loose his > power. > > > You're right. The one problem is that we don't know *what* Lily's > powers were. We do know now that Lily needn't to have died. > (I've read theories and fanfics ranging from the plausible (she > wasn't a direct descendant of Gryffindor) to the ridiculous > (Muggle-born Lily was a secret Death Eater!). > > I thnk that the combination of her sacrifice *along with* > something innate in baby Harry caused his protection and V's > downfall. What I'm wondering is that if all of our "There's > Something About Harry" inklings prove correct--if he could have > protected his parents and completely Voldemort if he was fully > matured. > > Prophecy detractors say that if there WAS something special > about Harry--some "messiah figure" prophecy--we would have > heard about it by now. Again--Harry was in the wizarding world > three years before he heard the Sirius Black "story". There is still > a lot that he doesn't know, doesn't particularly care to know, and > that has been kept from him. > > Going back to Voldemort, I have to wonder what magical means > he could devise to kill Harry. Even if the Killing Curse ("Avada > Kedavra") is the worst in this milieu (I very seriously doubt that for > some reason), I doubt very seriously that Voldemort would try it > again. I'm also not sure how effective it would be. > > Harry can indubitably be killed by the regular Muggle means, > although if I were Voldemort, I'd try decapitation or multiple > gunshot wounds... I get the strange feeling that hanging, single > bullets, electric shock, and incineration wouldn't be quite so > effective... especially as Harry matures in magical ability. > > So the question that will compel us for the next three books is: > What will Voldemort's strategy be? > > Also, what is Voldemort's main objective--power? Revenge? > Genocide? Spreading the Death Eater "gospel"? Or all of the > above? > > I have my own half-baked theories. What are yours? > > --Ebony AKA AngieJ I read an interesting theory, wish I would claim as my own, but alas, I am not that smart~~ http://allabouthp.www3.50megs.com/theories.html The one I'm talking about is that V was attempting to bring Lily to the dark side and was trying to kill James & Harry as a test of her loyalty to him. It helps the "Lily didn't have to die" comment to come together somewhat. It does leave open the question of why Harry didn't die, but it's an interesting twist on Lily not "having" to die. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in..... Becky From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 18:18:10 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:18:10 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" In-Reply-To: <94hn2h+mp7s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hth2+mami@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10172 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Flanagan" wrote: > OT Digression #1: > One thing that is noticeable on certain BBC programs that are > rebroadcast over here is the omission of the article adjective > in phrases such as "at table" and "to hospital." Americans would > say "at the table" and "to the hospital." The BBC usage sounds > posh and pedantic to my ears, so I'd like to ask any Brits or > Aussies who've read down this far: are "at table" etc. in > everyday use? Does this usage vary by dialect area? > I haven't seen any examples in the HP books, so if anyone sees > one please let me know and I'll add it to the list, which may > become part of the International Editions FAQ. "At table", is generally a northern English (Yorkshire/Lancashire) term. The rest of us Brits would say "at the table." Conversely; most people (Northern and everyone else alike) would say "to Hospital" when referring to a random hospital, like if I injured myself I would ask someone to take me "to Hospital" any hospital, just make it there fast. However if I had reason to refer to a particular hospital, (like one I had been to before, if I was an out-patient for example) then I would most likely say "I have to go to the Hospital." Make sense? I think not. You have to experience it (not recommended). Dai From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 22 18:21:01 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:21:01 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipping Party Boats ... Anyone for a Cruise? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10173 In a message dated 1/21/2001 10:30:16 PM Central Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: > > Those of us with strong preference often say things like "those misguided > > __/__ shippers" and tease each other, but I don't think any of us truly > > believe that our humble opinions outweigh JKR's universe. > > > Light hearted and humorous, yes. Teasing with no hard feelings? Sorry, can't agree. > he'd like to date her. She says, "Sorry, but I don't feel that way > about you." She either goes on to say explicitly, "I'm interested in > Harry," or Ron somehow divines this. Ron figures out that Harry has > romantic interest in Hermione, but hasn't said anything because he knew > how Ron felt about Hermione.> > > I can accept that scenario and see Ron "stepping aside" (although I believe > it would cause difficulty in his feelings towards the other two) in this > case. However, I consider it highly unlikely that Harry has feelings for > or would be happy with Hermione. <> "step aside," Harry might allow > himself to develop feelings for Hermione. > Why would Ron think that? he would refuse > to clear the way for a H/H romance? I don't necessarily think so.> I think he would be jealous and I don't think that would be small minded of him, just human. > character (I'm not putting in all the quotes here). Elizabeth basically > seems to suggest that Hermione is *still* the same bossy know-it-all > that she was in SS/PS. I think she's changed and is hardly recognizable > as the same person at all.> > I agree that we have a fundeamental disagreement regarding Hermione's character. I also believe that many *fanfic* Hermiones are indeed no longer bossy know-it-alls and that they are hardly recognizable as the same person, but I don't consider them Hermione, which is why I can enjoy PoU, STNE and ASA. I consider the Hermione in that universe a completely new character. > > What about Ron and Hermione both declaring their feelings for each other? > > > > That only works if you're in the school of thought that Hermione likes > Ron.>> Right. If the author has Hermione say she does like Ron then she does, as far as I'm concerned. > > I'm sorry if I react harshly to that suggestion, but teasing is a very > > major trigger for me and I never find it the least bit humorous. > > > involve alot of teasing. If it's too hard for you to take or recognize > for what it is (light-hearted banter), then maybe skipping the shipping > posts is a good idea. I hope your feelings haven't been hurt, as I'm > sure that's not anyone's intention. But, the shipping debates are > better off being carried off in a joking, teasing manner than if > everyone really had their guns out for a true debate, don't you think? > > I think it's possible to be lighthearted and humorous without teasing. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 22 18:23:34 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:23:34 -0000 Subject: Crookshanks In-Reply-To: <00e601c0849a$781a6680$06614cd5@default> Message-ID: <94htr6+c7s8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10174 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "nykteris" wrote: > Hi! > What d'you think - is Crookshanks an Animagus? No, I don't think so. Animagi seem to be human most of the time, only transforming for a short time and then returning to their normal state. That doesn't describe Crookshanks at sll. There are some who think that Crookshanks is a very intelligent cat, and that may be (Sirius refers to him as the "most intelligent of his kind he's ever seen," but there's no way of knowing if he means that Crookshanks' "kind" is feline.) I'm not sure...I like the idea that he's something else entirely and we'll all find out one of these days, when Jo decides to tell us. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 18:28:38 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:28:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Star Wars.... and FICTIONAL politicians Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10175 >Has anyone else here read the "Star Wars" novels, particularly the >New Jedi Order series? The Empire has atrophied to a small corner of >the galaxy and a new republic called (wait for it..) the New Republic >runs most of the galaxy from Coruscant. Anyway... > > In NJO, the leader of the New Republic is an alien named Borsk >Fey'lya who at first refused to believe the NR was being invaded from >outside the galaxy (aahh, space opera!), then refused to publicize it >and devote appropriate military resources to it all the time >threatening the careers of those who *were* taking action, including >Luke Skywalker, who now runs (take a wild guess!) a training school >for Jedi! > > Another thing I think of with Fudge is "Yes, Minister"; Corny seems >to combine the worst traits of Jim Hacker and Sir Humphrey. For a very long time, I have uphold that the similarities between these 2 series are vast and huge. Not to crit, Jo at all, bc it is a classic theme in all lit. think Antigone and Oedipus Rex. Anyways, I HAVE read the new Jedi Order books, and I even got away with writing a paper detailing the similarited between the 2 series, And i even got an A...but yes, for the star wars nuts among us, if you look into the New Jedi Order, and even the original Series, it will tell you how things go in Hp...maybe. Anyways, think Chewie's death for future sacrifices. Stephanie Who is homesick and reading Hp while trying to make the world stop spinning _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 18:30:07 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:30:07 -0600 Subject: Movie trailer Message-ID: <3A6C7C2E.BFF78B4B@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10176 Just browsing down the Alan Rickman guestbook, and I see there's a rumor that a trailer for the movie will be run during the Superbowl (see below). Thought you all might like to know, since some of you might (a) not have teeny kids, and (b) actually get to watch the whole thing, and (c) maybe even tape it if you have a working VCR so we can make fiendish profits selling copies to the Brits on the list. Here's what the posting said. It came from Sally, who's generally reliable: Touchdown For Harry Potter 17/01/2001 Potter fanatics will get their wish later this month when the first Harry Potter trailer hits the screen, that is, as long as they're American. Yes, those lucky, lucky folks across the pond will see Harry strut his stuff in glorious technicolour in a planned screening of the trailer during Super Bowl XXXV on January 28. The 30 second spot will join promos for The Mummy Returns, Hannibal and possibly even Jurassic Park 3 in spots throughout the sporting event. As Americas most-watched programme, the Super Bowl will draw an estimated 90 million viewers who will all get the chance to see Harry in action. Meanwhile his countrymen will have to toil away the time until its ineviatable Internet release. No fair. _________________ I'll let you know if I hear any more. Anyone else heard this? --Amanda From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 18:34:24 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:34:24 -0000 Subject: Cats (was something else from the graveyard) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94hufg+rfi2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10177 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rosa M. Andujar" wrote: Also, there are several > references to Mrs. Figg's many cats and I wonder what exactly are the > magical properties of cats? Crookshanks was able to recognize Sirius the > Animagus and helped him as a result. Perhaps cats have something to do > with this ancient magic? The cats we know of so far are pretty powerful, if not necessarily loveable. Crookshanks, as you said, is a great judge of character if nothing else, but the other cat that we really know about in the books is Mrs. Norris, and the references to her all seem to indicate that she has a strong connection to her owner and seems to serve as an extra set of eyes and ears for him. It is mentioned over and over that Filch has an uncanny tendency to show up right behind her. Maybe Mrs. Figg's cats are like this. Maybe they run around the neighborhood checking up on things/making sure no baddies are lurking? kimberly, wondering why Figg only had muggle pictures of her cats. From john at walton.to Mon Jan 22 18:40:13 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:40:13 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British -> American "Translation" In-Reply-To: <94hn2h+mp7s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10178 Jim Flanagan wrote: > OT Digression #1: > One thing that is noticeable on certain BBC programs that are > rebroadcast over here is the omission of the article adjective > in phrases such as "at table" and "to hospital." Americans would > say "at the table" and "to the hospital." The BBC usage sounds > posh and pedantic to my ears, so I'd like to ask any Brits or > Aussies who've read down this far: are "at table" etc. in > everyday use? Does this usage vary by dialect area? > I haven't seen any examples in the HP books, so if anyone sees > one please let me know and I'll add it to the list, which may > become part of the International Editions FAQ. It really depends on context and nuances of meaning. eg: == "You've GOT to go to hospital!" Hermione screamed as Ron's brains fell out. == i.e. going to hospital as opposed to doing nothing about it. "I'm going to the hospital to have my ingrowing nose removed," Snape said to Draco. "I decided that Madam Pomfrey wouldn't perform the operation." == i.e. going to hospital rather than Madam Pomfrey. =AND= "Draco, one does not point at table," Lucius said primly, sipping from his crystal goblet. == Draco is pointing while sitting at the table. "Don't point at the table, Hermione, it'll point back," Molly Weasley said kindly as they entered the room. == Hermione is pointing at the table from the doorway. So, I think it has something to do with "at table" being a state of existence. One is "at table"; one points/throws things/VERBs "at the table". Nuances of meaning, as I said :) --John, who has a Linguistics exam tomorrow! Eek! ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to I didn't vote for his daddy either. ======================================== From bkdelong at pobox.com Mon Jan 22 18:48:24 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:48:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie trailer In-Reply-To: <3A6C7C2E.BFF78B4B@texas.net> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010122134641.05f923d0@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10179 At 12:30 PM 01/22/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Here's what the posting said. It came from Sally, who's generally >reliable: I posted something on The Leaky Cauldron early last week. The current issue is that WB purchased one 30-sec commercial spot and they have at least 3 other big movies they could showcase. The nice thing is that AdCritic will have the trailer on their Web site within 30 minutes of it showing if it airs: http://www.adcritic.com/superbowl/ From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 22 18:49:29 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:49:29 -0000 Subject: Crookshanks Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10180 Steve wrote: "There are some who think that Crookshanks is a very intelligent cat, and that may be (Sirius refers to him as the "most intelligent of his kind he's ever seen," but there's no way of knowing if he means that Crookshanks' "kind" is feline.) I'm not sure...I like the idea that he's something else entirely and we'll all find out one of these days, when Jo decides to tell us." Just to disagree here, Sirius refers to Crookshanks as being a cat twice in PoA. The following two quotes are from PoA Ch 19: "This cat isn't mad. He's [Crookshanks] the most intelligent of his kind I've ever met." "This cat - Crookshanks, did you call him?" Both quotes clearly use the word cat to describe Crookshanks. If he is an animagi then he is almost definitely an illegal one. Hermione looks up the list of 20th century animagi for her transfiguration homework in 3rd year and would have made some comment about finding Crookshanks on the list. There is the possibility of her having chosen to keep it secret if she knew but I reckon she would have revealed all in the Shrieking Shack. All magical animals seem to have extended powers over their muggle counterparts (c.f. the rats in the pet shop in PoA). So any special powers belonging to Crookshanks are almost definitely the result of being a magical cat rather than being something else. Simon (slipping off before any of the other FAQ'ers compare the above to the FAQ he has written on the Animal Characters FAQ - coming your way soon!) From john at walton.to Mon Jan 22 18:55:03 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:55:03 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie trailer: SuperBowl (+LoTR) In-Reply-To: <3A6C7C2E.BFF78B4B@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10181 Amanda Lewanski wrote: Yep, I heard this as well, though I've forgotten the source. Perhaps the Daily Telegraph? Usually reliable. I think it's going to be the scene in the Hut on the Rock, as far as I remember. > (c) maybe even tape it if you have a working VCR so we can make fiendish > profits selling copies to the Brits on the list. ::saintly look:: One should never try to profit from other's misfortunes, Amanda. When I read of this, it was only going to be shown *at* the SuperBowl itself, *not* on TV. So wouldn't that be the moldy icing on your cake? ::wink:: Of course...if anyone was going to BE at the SuperBowl...and had a camcorder... ::hinthint:: I'm sure it'll be recorded by the TV channels, though, and a pirate camcorder is sure to spring onto the net. Also, apparently, the Lord of the Rings trailer will be shown at the same time -- a 2 minute version of the 30 second (?) clip we got on the internet. Just some info. It might have come from the BBC as well. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to "Don't Blame Me--I fully perforated my chad" ======================================== From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 22 18:57:32 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:57:32 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" (OTish) In-Reply-To: <94hth2+mami@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94hvqs+ftfh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10182 Dai said, in response to Jim Flanagan's question about "at table" and "to hospital": <<<"At table", is generally a northern English (Yorkshire/Lancashire) term. The rest of us Brits would say "at the table." Conversely; most people (Northern and everyone else alike) would say "to Hospital">>> I would add to that the fact that some northern dialects make a very slight reference to the word "the", as in "at't table," which could sound very like "at table". I also have a vague idea that "at table" is very mannered and 'posh,' as in "Ladies and Gentlemen, please be seated at table." I'd agree on "to hospital," although I might say "get me to a hospital". Often, it's just a contraction rather than part of a dialect. My local dialect is quite odd. For example, my parents would say they are "going bed" or "going down town" rather than "going to bed" or "going into town". I think that JKR is wise to avoid introducing too many British dialects; it's not easy to write regional accents. IIRC, she doesn't really attempt to represent Irish or Scottish dialects, although I think it's safe to assume that some of the characters are from those regions. Neil From bradamant at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 19:03:18 2001 From: bradamant at hotmail.com (Emily Owens) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:03:18 -0500 Subject: Planning the plot in advance -- prompted by Ebony's idea Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10183 Hi everybody-- I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but now that I am in the process of re-reading the books I am beginning to wonder to what degree JKR planned out the details of the plot, and to what degree she is adding things as she thinks of them. There are several examples that are troubling me, some of which seem to suggest extreme forethought, some of which suggest JKR changing her mind, and some of which are ambiguous. --The brief mention of SB in the first chapter of SS/PS. (When Hagrid explains where he got the motorcycle.) This is almost a throwaway reference--but it makes me think that JKR already had the events discussed in the denouement of PoA in mind. Why else would she go to the trouble of naming the owner of the motorbike? --On the other hand, there are some confusing discrepancies. For example, early in the series, Neville Longbottom tells everybody about how unmagic he is, and while he isn't exactly proud of it, he doesn't manifest the total humiliation we later see in Filch, nor does anybody (not even nasty DM!) use the word "Squib." This makes me think that JKR came up with that idea/terminology later. --More ambiguous: important characters like Moody and Crouch *could* have come up in earlier books, but didn't. Was this because the author hadn't thought of them yet, or because she didn't want to bore readers of the early volumes to death with biographical exposition? --Is the fate of Neville's parents something that was being withheld for suspense, or because JKR later noticed that she had left herself a situation (a fellow-orphan) that could be elaborated upon? There are lots more examples, but these are some that struck me. I was reminded of these questions by my contemporary Ebony's post about how fanfic fills in the gaps left in the canon. Is JKR deliberately leaving gaps for herself to fill? I think in some cases (Sirius; why Hagrid was expelled), she is. In others, I just can't tell. Rereading the first two books gave me no inkling about Pettigrew--but maybe that's just because she thought she'd be spoiling the fun if we figured it out or even knew something was up. This particularly bothers me with respect to the wand order issue, which (if it was really a mistake) casts JKR's infallibility into doubt... It certainly must be difficult for her, with four books already inalterably (well, except the wand-order thing) etched into the public's mind, and so much story left to go. Either way, I keep thinking about the huge gaps in the reader's knowledge of Harry's world, and the potential they imply. For example, I would be very disappointed if we don't learn a lot more about Lily Potter in the next book or two. And what about the real Alastor Moody? Cheers bradamant _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Jan 22 19:08:49 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:08:49 -0000 Subject: Aint It Cool News has a report from a King's Cross movie extra Message-ID: <94i0g1+8m10@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10184 http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=7981 pretty useless info - the most it says about the film is, "Unfortunatley I couldnt make out what was being filmed as it looked like they were filming the station very populated. I did see some of the main cast there but they must have been used in another shot as I never got to see them during the shoot." From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Jan 22 19:19:42 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:19:42 -0000 Subject: Calendar Question of the Week Message-ID: <94i14e+gm7b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10185 the Harry potter desktop page-a-day calendar's Question of the Weekend this past sat/sun was: If you had a wizard's fortune like Harry, what wizard things would you buy with it? These questions are cute - would be good to use as "discussion starters" in classrooms, I'd think. If people are interested, I can post them to the list each Monday... From john at walton.to Mon Jan 22 19:23:11 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:23:11 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Planning the plot in advance -- prompted by Ebony's idea In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10186 Emily Owens wrote: > I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but now that I am in the > process of re-reading the books I am beginning to wonder to what degree JKR > planned out the details of the plot, and to what degree she is adding things > as she thinks of them. There are several examples that are troubling me, > some of which seem to suggest extreme forethought, some of which suggest JKR > changing her mind, and some of which are ambiguous. Well, she has said on many occasions that she has files and files and boxes and boxes and other storage methods full of Harry stuff, so she must have a really intricate plan and character map laid out, even if only in her mind. As I've found when working from a preplanned plot, some of my best ideas come from completely outside the plot -- the Castle in Harry Potter and the Song of Time being an example. For the Song of Time, I plotted the Prologue and Chapter 1, and have plotted Chapter 7 (current release is 5 as soon as Cassie posts it to FFN [I can't because FFN is, as they say, buggered.]) so far, mainly to get all my ideas down on paper. --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to In 1555, Nostradamus wrote: "Come the millennium, month 12 In the home of greatest power, The village idiot will come forth To be acclaimed the leader." ======================================== From landers at email.unc.edu Mon Jan 22 19:21:01 2001 From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty Landers) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:21:01 -0500 Subject: Crookshanks! Message-ID: <3A6C881D.B672587D@email.unc.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10187 From: "nykteris" Subject: Crookshanks Hi! What d'you think - is Crookshanks an Animagus? K. Good question. I've been wondering the same thing. He's obviously not an ordinary cat. He seems to know what Peter-ur-scabbers was from the start and Sirius was able to communicate with him. Any theories, guys? (or girls, if you're politically correct and don't likt that general usage) Back to the depths of lerkdom. Betty, who's disappointed that she's only 60% obsessed according to DRMM's quiz. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 22 19:33:37 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:33:37 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" (OTish) In-Reply-To: <94hvqs+ftfh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94i1uh+1guq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10188 Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > My local dialect is quite odd. For example, my parents would say > they are "going bed" or "going down town" rather than "going to bed" > or "going into town". > Neil lol I'm from the State of Maryland, the geographic beginning of the Southern US. "Going down town" or "going down to someplace" is a normal colloquialism. I remember being taught in school that Southern American English dialect, especially the Appalachian dialect, is "closer" to British English (that is 17th and 18th century British English) than contemporary British English. I don't know if that is true. :-)Milz From msl at fc.net Mon Jan 22 19:36:24 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:36:24 -0000 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD (was re: marvin's fanfic) In-Reply-To: <94ho84+51gd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94i23o+4t06@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10189 [Ebony speculated on the effects of Post-traumatic Stress Disorder on a generation of Voldy-fighters and also on the way being regarded as a messiah might affect HP] In a way, Harry is already regarded (sort of) as a messiah by most of the wizarding world. We've seen lots of examples of the awe and admiration in which he is held. (Aside: once it becomes known that Voldy is back, will that regard turn to distaste or disappointment that Harry didn't "prevail" after all, in spite of having been only an infant at the time?) I've noticed that the magical world doesn't focus on religion much. Hogwarts acknowledges Xmas and Easter, for instance, but doesn't celebrate them in any sectarian way, and students are not required to attend chapel. Even the Dursley's, though they seem to resemble a kind of priggish protestantism, are not actually portrayed as church-goers IIRC. Their obsession seems to be with their respectablility in terms of their class and without regard to faith. So my point is, if in the magical world people do not resort to sectarian explanations of issues of good and evil, perhaps Harry won't have to worry so much about being a messiah figure, any more than, say, Winston Churchill had to worry about being canonized. Certainly Harry would be celebrated, but maybe if he's lucky wizards are by-and-large practical people who won't place him on too high a pedestal. If Voldy isn't Satan, then defeating Voldy doesn't make one Jesus. Just a hero, which has its own set of complications. (Given the perversity of human nature, it's possible the opposite might happen, too. Perhaps the way in which Harry defeats Voldy would reveal something about him that makes the rest of the wizarding world more suspicious of him than grateful for him.) All that having been said, there appears to have been little attempt in the wizarding world so far to canonize young Harry; I don't recall there being a "Harry Potter Day," for instance. Despite the fact that nobody knows why trying to kill HP cost Voldy his power, people seem content to admit their ignorance rather than create a mythical explanation (unlike us!). Harry gets lots of respect for the events of his infancy, but so far nobody seems to have attempted an apotheosis of Harry Potter. (On the other hand, if he were to die in the battle with Voldy, he might stand a greater chance of deification.) OK, none of this really addresses how Harry might handle the combination of public adoration and PTSD. The only thing that really leaps to mind for me is the problem of loneliness. If after the War Harry, Ron, and Hermione all pursue their separate interests (assuming they live) then Harry will face the problem of handling all the pressure without a family, and he'll often have the problem of not knowing if friends are true friends or just hangers-on. Well, except for Sirius, again assuming he lives. It's a tough call. There are a variety of ways of responding to trauma and stress, and we can speculate on them, but it's hard to guess which response JKR would choose to write. :-) Except for standard things like depression, for instance, it doesn't really help to try to extrapolate from Harry's character as we know him because one presumes that PTSD, if obvious, is obvious because it's causing the victim to fall out of character, so to speak. marvin From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 22 19:40:07 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:40:07 -0000 Subject: Crookshanks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94i2an+sd95@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10190 > > Just to disagree here, Sirius refers to Crookshanks as being a cat twice in > PoA. > > The following two quotes are from PoA Ch 19: > "This cat isn't mad. He's [Crookshanks] the most intelligent of his kind > I've ever met." > "This cat - Crookshanks, did you call him?" > > Both quotes clearly use the word cat to describe Crookshanks. Granted, but I would argue that they don't necessarily mean that he is an actual cat, as in domesticated feline, as in pet cat. After all, any cat-like creature is referred to as a cat, not just house cats. I like to keep the possiblity open that Crookshanks is something more than just one of the many magical cats around (and there are plenty, apparently, judging by the number of them mentioned as being on Platform 9 and 3/4 and other places) Cats are very common. Crookshanks is very UNcommon. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com Mon Jan 22 19:38:40 2001 From: hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com (Sara Metz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:38:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Planning the plot in advance -- prompted by Ebony's idea Message-ID: <20010122.133846.-544639.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10191 > I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but now that I am in > the > process of re-reading the books I am beginning to wonder to what > degree JKR > planned out the details of the plot, and to what degree she is > adding things > as she thinks of them. There are several examples that are troubling > me, > some of which seem to suggest extreme forethought, some of which > suggest JKR > changing her mind, and some of which are ambiguous. I'm sure that JKR had the characters of Sirius, Moody and Crouch in her head when she started writing all the stories. However, I think that's it's logical that we never heard of Moody or Crouch before GoF, since there was no real way for Harry to know who they were. Harry has no real contact with the Ministry, and living with the Dursleys all those years means he has no real knowledge of who works (or worked) in the Ministry. Ron probably knew somewhat, and Mr. Weasley, but there was no logical way for those names to come up in conversation. It would have been awkward to have somebody try to push those characters in there. Sara Proud of my 104% Harry Potter Obsession Rating ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com Mon Jan 22 19:39:17 2001 From: hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com (Sara Metz) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:39:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Planning the plot in advance -- prompted by Ebony's idea Message-ID: <20010122.133918.-544639.1.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10192 > I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet, but now that I am in > the > process of re-reading the books I am beginning to wonder to what > degree JKR > planned out the details of the plot, and to what degree she is > adding things > as she thinks of them. There are several examples that are troubling > me, > some of which seem to suggest extreme forethought, some of which > suggest JKR > changing her mind, and some of which are ambiguous. I'm sure that JKR had the characters of Sirius, Moody and Crouch in her head when she started writing all the stories. However, I think that's it's logical that we never heard of Moody or Crouch before GoF, since there was no real way for Harry to know who they were. Harry has no real contact with the Ministry, and living with the Dursleys all those years means he has no real knowledge of who works (or worked) in the Ministry. Ron probably knew somewhat, and Mr. Weasley, but there was no logical way for those names to come up in conversation. It would have been awkward to have somebody try to push those characters in there. Sara Proud of my 104% Harry Potter Obsession Rating ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From bkdelong at pobox.com Mon Jan 22 19:53:12 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 14:53:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Aint It Cool News has a report from a King's Cross movie extra In-Reply-To: <94i0g1+8m10@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010122145218.04fa0ec0@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10193 At 07:08 PM 01/22/2001 +0000, you wrote: >http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=7981 >pretty useless info - the most it says about the film >is, "Unfortunatley I couldnt make out what was being filmed as it >looked like they were filming the station very populated. I did see >some of the main cast there but they must have been used in another >shot as I never got to see them during the shoot." Empire Online also has news and pictures! http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2001_01_21_archive.html#2075567 From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 22 19:55:58 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 13:55:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz References: <9477mt+3vgj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6C904E.9104BDFC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10194 Well, I'm 61% obsessed. But numbers 68 and 69 were not applicable to me--I'm not in school. And I think, due to my Snapemania, there should have been more questions about people insanely devoted to the interpretation and defense of one character, and less about fanfiction. But 61% is obsessed enough, eh? --Amanda From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 19:56:03 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:56:03 -0000 Subject: Voldemort the evil overlord In-Reply-To: <94gj6p+uvlo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94i38j+dddg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10195 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rita Winston" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > > It also makes the hero's achievement much greater, IMO, if we know > > that it didn't rest partially on the flaws of the villain. > > Isn't that a bit much to ask of an 11 yo hero? This was in more general terms. As I said, I don't mind if HP repeats certain formulae, because it does it well and combines them interestingly. It was more of a personal response. I'm tired of the melodramatic villain, but others aren't. And a less melodramatic villain might not work well for the HP books. But of course, most books with kids saving the world aren't working with strict realism anyhow. > As novice fanfic writer, my villains have to be dumb because my > heroes aren't smarter than me and therefore can't figure out how > to foil smart villains. Oh, I'm not talking about the villain's plan being so mindbogglingly complex that it takes three hundred pages to develop it in exhausting detail. I'm just talking about having the villain, if one wants to portray a smart villain sans melodrama, following common sense, so as not to have the reader say, "boy, I'm sure smarter than this guy who is supposed to be a genius leader in control of the world," or, "know what he's gonna do now, he's going to do something dumb, so then the hero will save the day." > > > Plus, in real life, the nasty person usually isn't loony, just > > mean, self-centered, and unscrupulous, and succeeds sometimes. > > Well, we had that in Lockhart. > and Lucius? > and Fudge? > and Bagman? Twasn't speaking of HP there, just in more general terms. And yes, this is what I referred to when I said that JKR did get in moral complexity. Charmian Rats live on no evil star. From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 22 20:21:57 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:21:57 -0500 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns Message-ID: <006801c084b0$f92a8dc0$5551d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10196 Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns This chapter begins right after the completion of the Second Task. Ron is getting a lot of attention for being one of the hostages and he begins to make up tall tales about how they got into the lake and how the hostages got out. Hermione finally calls him on his largest exaggeration and he goes back to a more realistic version of events. Next up is a Potions class. This week we find that Witch Weekly has published an article alleging that Harry's heart has been broken by Hermione. Apparently "someone" overheard Krum expressing his feelings for Hermione and asking her to visit him over the summer. Ron is very jealous about this. Snape finds the article and proceeds humiliate Harry and Hermione by reading it out loud. Hermione handles it in a very mature way, Harry is furious. Snape then separates the trio and has Harry sit up front by Snape's desk. Snape threatens Harry with Veritaserum. Harry worries about all of his secrets. Then Karkaroff shows up. He wants to show Snape his arm and complains that Snape has avoided him all year. Harry manages to stay behind after class and hear this conversation. The next day they are to meet Sirius in Hogsmeade. At the appointed time they meet the large black dog that is Sirius in Hogsmeade. They follow him up a mountain to a cave near the top. We get a lot of background information in Harry, Ron, and Hermione's conversation with Sirius. We also see some real differences in the trio's personalities. We learn the following: - Crouch Sr. sent Sirius away without a trial. - Crouch Sr. used to be Head of Magical Law Enforcement - Crouch Sr. was supposed to be the next Minister of Magic - Crouch Sr. (according to Sirius) is powerfully magic and power hungry - Crouch Sr. authorized the Aurers to kill rather than capture. - Crouch Sr. authorized the use of "unforgivables" - Crouch Jr. was caught with some Death Eaters and arrested. - Crouch Jr. only got a trial so his Dad could show how fair he was. - Crouch Jr. was sent to Azkaban. - According to Sirius, Crouch Jr. died in Azkaban, and his mother died shortly after. - Crouch Sr. suffered politically after their deaths and was passed over for Minister of Magic and was pushed aside into the Department for Magical Cooperation. - Crouch is obsessed with catching dark wizards. - Moody was an Aurer with integrity. Always captured when he could. Only killed when he had to. - Bertha Jorkins was at Hogwarts when the Marauders were. She was a gossip, but dim. - Snape hung out with a bunch of future Death Eaters when they were at Hogwarts. - Snape "knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year." - Sirius names Death Eaters: Rosier, Wilkes, Lestanges, and Avery. Other plot points: + They come to the conclusion that at the Quidditch World Cup, Harry's wand is stolen from him in the Top Box. + Sirius spends some time explaining what it was like when Voldemort was at the height of his power. + We find out that Ron thinks Percy is very ambitious and might not hesitate to "throw his family" to the dementors if they got in his way. Character Development: Harry: His reaction to Snape's taunting is anger. He also seems to play the role of breaking up the bickering between Ron and Hermione in the discussions in the cave. Hermione: She shows a lot of maturity in this chapter. First in how she limits Ron's boasting, second in her reaction to Snape's taunts, and third in the cave, she seems much more at ease, self-assured when expressing an opinion. This contrasts to Ron who seems to be wanting to impress Sirius with his ideas. Ron: He is being the most typically adolescent of the trio. He exaggerates his role in the second task, he's jealous about Hermione and Krum, and he just seems to try too hard in the conversations with Sirius in the cave. He seems to be discounting Hermione's statements so that his own seem more intelligent and perceptive. On a plus side, Ron does note that Sirius must care an awful lot about Harry to eat rats, so that Sirius can be close to Harry. Snape: We learn some about his past, he associated with Death Eaters. Sirius is confused about Dumbledore trusting Snape. He's still a cruel teacher and openly despises Harry. Willing to subject Harry to a controlled potion as a threat. Sirius: He was back to the gaunt, matted hair look in this chapter, after a brief respite as a fuller face gentleman with short clean hair just before the first task. However we learn he's living off rats.hence the thinner look. He's still with Buckbeak. His role as a surrogate father to Harry is expounded upon in this chapter. He is definitely taking the role of godfather seriously. He shows that he thinks enough of these kids that he can explain what the Voldemort years were like. He trusts them and they trust him. He provides them with a history and with some wisdom gleaned from his years in Azkaban, and his school years. He also shows he knows a bit about family priorities when he comments that Crouch Sr. "Ought to have left the office early once in awhile.gotten to know his son." Favorite quotes: "If you want to know what a man is like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." "Call me snuffles." Questions for discussion: 1. What do you think the quote above says about the wizarding culture. I was uncomfortable when Sirius so casually referred to inferiors and equals. I know he was speaking in reference to house elves and wizards, but what might the pecking order of the wizarding world be. Are house elves on the same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. Are the inferiors simply non-humans or are there inferior humans as the Malfoys believe. And does Sirius believe there are inferior humans? 2. What do you think of Ron in this chapter. Was he coming across as trying too hard to impress everyone, between the other students with his tall tale about battling the merpeople and trying to discount Hermione's observations during the cave discussions. 3. What about Hermione. Is she showing more maturity than typical of her age? 4. Did anyone pick up any clues that were useful to figuring out the ending in his chapter? 5. Snuffles! How cute is that? From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 22 20:24:16 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 15:24:16 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10197 The question I keep hoping will turn up on one of these quizzes is: Have you engaged in any form of body modification in order to resemble one of the characters from the HP books? Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 20:35:17 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:35:17 -0000 Subject: "Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning) In-Reply-To: <008e01c08426$f556bd20$3a5fd63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94i5i5+euhp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10198 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rita Winston" > > > Canon Ginny > > is just a nice kid who expects to get HER glory from her spouse. > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > Where on earth do you get this impression? Just because she is young and > has a crush on Harry doesn't in anyway give me the idea that she expects to > get her glory from her spouse. I had loads of crushes at age 11, 12. and > 13...but even then never thought about deriving "glory" from the object of > that crush and certainly not from a spouse. > > carole Not only that, but I think the fact that Ginny chose to go to the Yule Ball with Neville suggests that she's not expecting any kind of glory from the person she's with. I know that she isn't planning on marrying him, and I know that one of the reasons she went with him was because otherwise she wouldn't get to go at all, but she did go, and incurred ridicule for it, which would imply that the opposite is true, and that she's not interested in glory at all. Kimberly, who will defend characters whenever possible, and who has a soft spot for Ginny From jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu Mon Jan 22 21:06:57 2001 From: jamesf at alumni.caltech.edu (Jim Flanagan) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:06:57 -0000 Subject: Obsession Quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94i7dh+5p8i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10199 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > Have you engaged in any form of body modification in order to > resemble one of the characters from the HP books? Um. What were you thinking of -- sawing off a leg to look like Moody? -JF From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 22 21:08:21 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:08:21 -0000 Subject: Character Summary : Peter Pettigrew Message-ID: <00df01c084b7$74924b00$2f64063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 10200 Age : Indeterminate. Contemporary of Moony, Padfoot and Prongs AKA Remus Lupin, Sirius Black and James Potter. AKA : Wormtail. Illegal Animagus form is a rat Appearance : as a child : "...that fat little boy..." Madame Rosmerta POA CH 10 P 154 UK Ed. ) As an adult : Short, thin colourless hair ( unkempt ) with a bald patch on top. " He had the shrunken appearance of a plump man who had lost a lot of weight in a short time " ( POA CH 19 p 269 ). Character : snivelling, desperate. Definitely not brave. Was part of the Maurauders as a pupil at Hogwarts. Chosen to be James and Lily's Secret Keeper as an adult. Currently Servant of Lord Voldemort. One who prefers the easy option. Questions for discussion 1 ) Is there any evidence to suggest goodness in this man ? 2 ) Did he turn the way he did because of the way he was viewed as a wizard ? McGonagall says " Never quite in their league, talent-wise. I was often rather sharp with him " POA CH 10 p 154. 3 Pettigrew gives the impression of wanting to befriend people who threaten him rather than be their enemy. > If this is true, a ) can anyone suggest why he was trusted enough to be Secret Keeper and b ) What does this say about the behaviour of the other Maurauders as students ? Michelle From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Mon Jan 22 21:30:35 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:30:35 -0000 Subject: Fw: Character Summary : Peter Pettigrew Message-ID: <016401c084ba$8fe1d760$2f64063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 10201 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michelle Apostolides" To: Sent: 22 January 2001 21:08 Subject: Character Summary : Peter Pettigrew > Age : Indeterminate. Contemporary of Moony, Padfoot and Prongs AKA > Remus Lupin, Sirius Black and James Potter. > > AKA : Wormtail. Illegal Animagus form is a rat > > Appearance : as a child : "...that fat little boy..." Madame Rosmerta > POA CH 10 P 154 UK Ed. ) > > As an adult : Short, thin colourless hair ( unkempt ) with a bald patch > on top. " He had the shrunken appearance of a plump man who had lost a > lot of weight in a short time " ( POA CH 19 p 269 ). > > Character : snivelling, desperate. Definitely not brave. Was part of > the Maurauders as a pupil at Hogwarts. Chosen to be James and Lily's > Secret Keeper as an adult. Currently Servant of Lord Voldemort. One who > prefers the easy option. > > Questions for discussion > > 1 ) Is there any evidence to suggest goodness in this man ? > > 2 ) Did he turn the way he did because of the way he was viewed as a > wizard ? McGonagall says " Never quite in their league, talent-wise. I > was often rather sharp with him " POA CH 10 p 154. > > 3 Pettigrew gives the impression of wanting to befriend people who > threaten him rather than be their enemy. > If this is true, a ) can > anyone suggest why he was trusted enough to be Secret Keeper and b ) > What does this say about the behaviour of the other Maurauders as > students ? > > Michelle > From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 21:35:02 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:35:02 -0000 Subject: Jumping ship (was What is no-shipping?) In-Reply-To: <94gka9+4s8j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94i926+sd7b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10202 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > Of course human relationships are at the crux of any good story.... > but JKR has deliberately kept us away from sex...and mostly from > romance....she has happily married couples...Petunia/Vernon; > Arthur/Molly; Lily/James; Lucius/Narcissa; Cedric's parents; some > adult romance -- Madame Maxine and Hagrid (no one seems to be too > interested to discuss their romance? too adult?); a few adolescent > crushes. but a lot of solitary adults..Sirius, Lupin, McGonagall, > Snape, Dumbledore, Crouch, Moody, ..but the passion in her books is > about friendship, (the Marauders, Harry, Hermione and Ron; the > loyalty Hagrid and Dumbledore have for each other; the love of > parent for child (Diggory; Potter) and the fight for justice against > evil. > >Susan Susan, you have converted me! I am officially abandoning ship(s) of all kinds. When the issue first came up when I was a newbie to the board, I kinda thought I was supposed to choose a side, so I chose what I thought would be the closest to a happily-ever-after ending for everyone, simply because I love all the characters too much to want anyone to be left out. But even then I said if this were the real world I'd prefer that nobody got together because they're all so young. The more I've seen the arguments of the shippers (both sides), the more surreal it has all become to me. I think you're right - the important relationships in these books are the friendships and loyalties that have been and continue to be forming. I'd rather not, in all honesty, see any romances develop between the main (young) characters, now that I've gotten to know the 'characters' on this list. Just like I didn't want Ron or Harry or Ginny or anyone to be left out in the stories, I now don't want any of these lovely listmembers to be hurt either! If R/H is disproven, some people on the good ship R/H will be very, very sad, and if H/H is disproven there will probably be some sort of terrible cry wrenching the sky from the battleship H/H, so I have now decided that my preference is ambiguity, so that long after the stories are over everyone can continue to imagine what they want. I know I'm kinda nuts, but I don't make my decisions so much based on what I think should happen, or even what I would personally prefer, as what I think will make the most people happy. So from now on, I am a no-shipper, and this is my shipless rant! Question for Susan - now that I've jumped ship, do I get a dinghy, or a raft, or an inner tube or something? If not, that's ok, I float pretty well on my own, I'll just stretch out on my back and relax. Ahhh - dontcha love a good float trip? Kimberly, hoping that no sides get offended by the implications of the other side/sides that they are delusional/demented/defective and/or suffering from a disorder because of their shipping preference. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Jan 22 21:44:25 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:44:25 -0000 Subject: Remember the Marshall Fields Show from the holidays? Message-ID: <94i9jp+og5q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10203 Peg's pictures were great - but some of the ones at http://chicago.about.com/citiestowns/midwestus/chicago/library/weekly/ aa011501a.htm?once=true& are even better - Harry is *so so so* cute in the first picture of him (although whoever wrote the accompanying text needs an editor very very badly) heidi who is catching up on her nine billion email messages & is glad things are slower today - is everyone reading DS11? From ara_kel at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 21:47:44 2001 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:47:44 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <006801c084b0$f92a8dc0$5551d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94i9q0+q2i7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10204 > > 1. Are house elves on the > same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. I think house elves are a step above creatures like hippogriffs because they can communicate with humans. While we have seen that many magical creatures seem to understand human speech, house elves (and goblins) are the only ones who seem to be able to speak English. I would think that this would place them above creatures that might be seen as non-sentient. > 2. What do you think of Ron in this chapter. Was he coming across as trying > too hard to impress everyone, between the other students with his tall tale > about battling the merpeople and trying to discount Hermione's observations > during the cave discussions. > When I reread this chapter, it really bothered me that Ron criticized nearly everything Hermione said in the cave. For someone who, according to R/H shippers, has an obvious crush on Hermione at this point, he's hardly endearing himself to her. I can see how he might have been irritated by Hermione's constant defense of Winky - as well as influenced by his own views regarding house elves - but he certainly was not handling that conversation in a mature way. > > 5. Snuffles! How cute is that? I thought it was cute, but it also seemed much too fluffy for a nickname that Sirius gave himself. In a fanfic that's floating around in my mind, a young Sirius was called Snuffles when his girlfriend learned about his dog form. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 21:54:09 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 21:54:09 -0000 Subject: Why is your favorite your favorite? In-Reply-To: <94h9ic+qlgk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ia61+dfg0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10205 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > PA is my favorite and I don't even think SB and RL are sexy. Amy, I would quote the bits I agree with, but I'd be quoting your entire post! Well, except for the part where you don't think Lupin and Sirius are sexy - they both are very sexy to me. There is so much going on in PoA that's under the surface. I think it's the most character-driven of the 4, and it's the first time that I really really felt like I could get inside of Harry's head and understand a tiny bit of what he was feeling. But there's one thing that nobody's really mentioned about book 3 that I'd like to add to it's long long list of wonderful attributes - the humor. Book 3 by far the funniest of all the books. I think from the moment the Marauder's Map began insulting Snape I laughed for the rest of that chapter. I think that when you pair this with all of the wonderful things you and others have mentioned, you get one great book, even outside of the greater story that Rowling is writing. kimberly, almost caught up with all the posts I missed this weekend. From rina at love-productions.com Mon Jan 22 23:03:25 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:03:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns Message-ID: <01ad01c084c7$882eca20$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10206 Sarah wrote: <> I think the thing to consider is that he isn't mature. He's a 14 year old boy, and at that time, he was feeling very inferior to his friends. So, yes, he tried too hard and critizied a lot to get attention. After all, Harry is Harry, and Hermione is very smart. They can hold their own, but he probably feels a little overshadowed in their group, just the way he does at home. And as for endearing himself to Hermione, again, he's 14! Anyone else an Anne of Green Gables fan? 14 y/o Gilbert called Anne "carrots," and we all know where that ended up. Ron is probably a little confused about what (if) he's feeling for Hermione, and has no clue how to handle it, so he responds in the only way he knows how. Reminsicent of chasing girls on the playground and driving them nuts because you have a crush. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msl at fc.net Mon Jan 22 23:00:36 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:00:36 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <006801c084b0$f92a8dc0$5551d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94ie2k+vul6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10207 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > > "If you want to know what a man is like, take a good look at how he treats > his inferiors, not his equals." > > "Call me snuffles." > > Questions for discussion: > > 1. What do you think the quote above says about the wizarding culture. I > was uncomfortable when Sirius so casually referred to inferiors and equals. > I know he was speaking in reference to house elves and wizards, but what > might the pecking order of the wizarding world be. Are house elves on the > same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. Are the > inferiors simply non-humans or are there inferior humans as the Malfoys > believe. And does Sirius believe there are inferior humans? I think Sirius was talking about the universal social pecking order that exists no matter how egalitarian one's personal ideals. How well does the boss treat his employees, for instance. How does the affluent person treat the homeless panhandler, or the witch her elves. In short, how you react when you find yourself in a superior position with respect to another person or being tells volumes because such a position offers a chance to tyrranize and demean on the one hand and a chance to encourage and uplift on the other. > 2. What do you think of Ron in this chapter. Was he coming across as trying > too hard to impress everyone, between the other students with his tall tale > about battling the merpeople and trying to discount Hermione's observations > during the cave discussions. I think Ron is clearly insecure and feels he has to compete just to matter: Harry is famous, Hermione is brilliant, but Ron is just...Ron. Hermione is an easier target than Harry for churlish behavior, I suspect. > 3. What about Hermione. Is she showing more maturity than typical of her > age? She's way cool. I don't understand why so many people seem to think she'd be a difficult "match." For a dullard, yeah, but IMO she's quite a sexy brain. Ahem, for a 14-yr. old. > 4. Did anyone pick up any clues that were useful to figuring out the ending > in his chapter? We learn that another Crouch exists, which is a clue to things witnessed on the Marauder's map, but I personally never made that connection. > 5. Snuffles! How cute is that? Beats Scabbers, anyway. (Non sequitur: I wonder how an animagus reacts if, when in animal form, another critter of the same species goes into heat....) From mschub at yahoo.com Mon Jan 22 23:41:54 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:41:54 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <006801c084b0$f92a8dc0$5551d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94igg2+ealg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10208 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > Questions for discussion: > > 1. What do you think the quote above says about the wizarding culture. I > was uncomfortable when Sirius so casually referred to inferiors and equals. > I know he was speaking in reference to house elves and wizards, but what > might the pecking order of the wizarding world be. Are house elves on the > same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. Are the > inferiors simply non-humans or are there inferior humans as the Malfoys > believe. And does Sirius believe there are inferior humans? I was actually planning to post something similar to this. Basically, I was wondering about racism (and other -isms) in the wizarding world. We don't really see any examples of people being judged on the color of their skin, but is that because of a lack of racism or because of open-mindedness on Harry's (and the narrator's) part? We see LOADS of classism (notably the Malfoys), and I'm just wondering if the ilk that the Malfoys hang out with would judge people not only on their wizarding background and wealth, but on their culture and race (and sex and etc.) as well. One tends to think they would, but we see really no examples of that in Malfoy's speech (in fact, he seems very pleased to have the Durmstrang students sit at the Slytherin table). I believe there's also a comment somewhere where Draco mentions that his father had considered sending him to Durmstrang as opposed to Hogwarts. Now, this would seem to suggest a certain tolerance on the Malfoys' part towards other cultures, don't you think (even if Durmstrang IS famous for its Dark Arts teaching)? So is there racism in the wizarding world? And if there isn't, do you suppose JKR left it out without any particular reason, or left it out deliberately? Also, can we see peoples' treatment of house elves as a comment from JKR ABOUT racism? It could be a rather thinly veiled attempt on her part to point out the monstrosity (which is a tough word to spell) of prejudice. For instance, the Sirius quote about the inferiors. Now, I personally took that as a reference to Master/Servant relationships (perhaps better named "Employer/Employee"), not a division based on skin color, class, or whatever. But it could also quite easily be said that these house elves are being judged based on the "color of their skin", and that it's become so commonly accepted that even a person as good-natured as Sirius could accept it (although, on that, I have a hard time believing that Sirius could/would accept something like that). What does everyone think? I hope all this made sense... Maybe I should have put it all in a seperate post as I was originally planning to. Ah well. > 2. What do you think of Ron in this chapter. Was he coming across as trying > too hard to impress everyone, between the other students with his tall tale > about battling the merpeople and trying to discount Hermione's observations > during the cave discussions. That's tough. I always feel bad for Ron being overshadowed by everything Harry does (and indeed, everything Hermione the Brilliant does). Based on that, it's hard to begrudge him a little... elaboration when something finally DOES happen to HIM. He's only 14, he was feeling naturally jealous, and the way I see it, that jealousy could manifest itself in a lot worse ways than his telling some inflated stories. > 3. What about Hermione. Is she showing more maturity than typical of her > age? I think so, yes, but I also think that we've come to expect that of Hermione. If she DIDN'T show extra maturity, we would be confused. -Mike From lj2d30 at gateway.net Mon Jan 22 23:44:35 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:44:35 -0000 Subject: Narnia reading order (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94igl3+h0v6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10209 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > > There are two suggested reading orders. One is to read then books 1 to 7; this is the way that makes the story make sense. But this is not the order the books were written in. The other order is to read them in the order in which CS Lewis wrote them (but I have lost this order so can be of no more help). Order in which they were written as follows: 1. The Lion, the Witch & the Wardrobe 2. Prince Caspian 3. The Voyage of the Dawn Treader 4. The Silver Chair 5. The Horse and His Boy 6. The Magician's Nephew 7. The Last Battle This is the order in which I always read them because this was the order in which they were numbered back when I was a kid. I can understand why they were re-numbered, but I still prefer this way. Trina From melssa99 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 23:55:32 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:55:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Voldemort's Strategy (was Loss of/Harry's Special Powers) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10210 > > Prophecy detractors say that if there WAS something special > > about Harry--some "messiah figure" prophecy--we would have > > heard about it by now. > >Why? If it was Trelawney's first prediction, take a look at how her second >was received. Harry heard it, told Dumbledore, that's it. Since Dumbledore >is the only person to mention this first prediction of hers, perhaps only >he, and a very few others, know what it was. > Hi everyone, This is my first day with this group, but I am already glad I joined after reading all the great insights! My opinion about this is that there was some sort of prophecy and we just don't know what it is yet. At the end of Book 1, Harry asks Dumbledore why Voldemort wants him dead, and Dumbledore replies that alas, he cannot answer that question. But that when Harry is older he will learn the truth. So Dumbledore knows, but he is just keeping his mouth shut for now. Thanks, Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 00:00:18 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:00:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz References: Message-ID: <3A6CC992.FDC1DA85@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10211 mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > Have you engaged in any form of body modification in order to resemble one of > the characters from the HP books? Could this *possibly* involve red hair dye, Ms. Weasley? --Amanda From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 23:54:13 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (ffionmiles at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:54:13 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <94ie2k+vul6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ih75+oarj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10212 In answer to Q.2 about Ront rying so hard to impress - it shows one of the greatest things about HP, especially as [technically] a bokk for hcildren - in that Joanne gives all characters flaws which we all have - they're not all good/bad [except voldemort, because pure evil can exist - though they too have a certain charm to those who want to be alured by it] - but people we can really love aren't perfect - and she's made Ron the least perfect of all of them - sarcastic, short- tempered, jealous, wanting to impress - but we all know the reasons behind it [I mean, will Mrs Weasley ever knit him a jumper that isn't maroon? Her other sons seem to get nicer colours!] and I for one can't help loving him even more! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" > wrote: > > > > > "If you want to know what a man is like, take a good look at how he > treats > > his inferiors, not his equals." > > > > "Call me snuffles." > > > > Questions for discussion: > > > > 1. What do you think the quote above says about the wizarding > culture. I > > was uncomfortable when Sirius so casually referred to inferiors and > equals. > > I know he was speaking in reference to house elves and wizards, but > what > > might the pecking order of the wizarding world be. Are house elves > on the > > same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. Are the > > inferiors simply non-humans or are there inferior humans as the > Malfoys > > believe. And does Sirius believe there are inferior humans? > > I think Sirius was talking about the universal social pecking order > that exists no matter how egalitarian one's personal ideals. How well > does the boss treat his employees, for instance. How does the > affluent person treat the homeless panhandler, or the witch her > elves. In short, how you react when you find yourself in a superior > position with respect to another person or being tells volumes because > such a position offers a chance to tyrranize and demean on the one > hand and a chance to encourage and uplift on the other. > > > > 2. What do you think of Ron in this chapter. Was he coming across > as trying > > too hard to impress everyone, between the other students with his > tall tale > > about battling the merpeople and trying to discount Hermione's > observations > > during the cave discussions. > > I think Ron is clearly insecure and feels he has to compete just to > matter: Harry is famous, Hermione is brilliant, but Ron is > just...Ron. Hermione is an easier target than Harry for churlish > behavior, I suspect. > > > 3. What about Hermione. Is she showing more maturity than typical > of her > > age? > > She's way cool. I don't understand why so many people seem to think > she'd be a difficult "match." For a dullard, yeah, but IMO she's > quite a sexy brain. Ahem, for a 14-yr. old. > > > 4. Did anyone pick up any clues that were useful to figuring out the > ending > > in his chapter? > > We learn that another Crouch exists, which is a clue to things > witnessed on the Marauder's map, but I personally never made that > connection. > > > 5. Snuffles! How cute is that? > > Beats Scabbers, anyway. (Non sequitur: I wonder how an animagus > reacts if, when in animal form, another critter of the same species > goes into heat....) From TEAPOT1 at PRODIGY.NET Mon Jan 22 23:53:35 2001 From: TEAPOT1 at PRODIGY.NET (Diana Wisniewski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:53:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crookshanks References: <94htr6+c7s8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002301c084ce$8a423ca0$3c851440@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10213 Steve I'm a newbie but I had to reply. You said that Animagus are only animals for short periods of time, but what about Scabber/Wormtail? I personally don't think Crookshanks is an Animagus, but something magical. But had to put my 2 cents worth in. Thanks, Di ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Vander Ark" To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:23 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crookshanks > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "nykteris" wrote: > > Hi! > > What d'you think - is Crookshanks an Animagus? > > No, I don't think so. Animagi seem to be human most of the time, only > transforming for a short time and then returning to their normal > state. That doesn't describe Crookshanks at sll. There are some who > think that Crookshanks is a very intelligent cat, and that may be > (Sirius refers to him as the "most intelligent of his kind he's ever > seen," but there's no way of knowing if he means that > Crookshanks' "kind" is feline.) I'm not sure...I like the idea that > he's something else entirely and we'll all find out one of these > days, when Jo decides to tell us. > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From allyson at ptd.net Tue Jan 23 00:12:30 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:12:30 -0500 Subject: Quick Question Message-ID: <005601c084d1$2f1dfe60$fe04bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10214 Does anyone know when PoA is coming out in paperback? I have copies of SS and CoS all written in and marked up for my class at school and I would really love a paperback copy of PoA to do the same....unfortunately for me I know it won't be this coming weekend!!!! We are starting it on Monday!!!!! Thanks for any insight anyone might have!!!!!! Allyson ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~Albus Dumbledore~ Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets {pg. 333} [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ssturtevant at home.com Tue Jan 23 00:03:41 2001 From: ssturtevant at home.com (Sara Sturtevant) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 16:03:41 -0800 Subject: marvin's fanfic References: <980186004.69811.8772.l8@egroups.com> Message-ID: <000901c084cf$f1eb4bc0$5ba50d18@santab1.ca.home.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10215 In a way it would follow the Star Wars similarity if HP goes into seculsion, because (at least in the books) that is what Luke Skywalker does. Luke becomes a hermit like Yoda because he is just too powerful. What if the same fate befalls Harry? O! Horrors! After all in my heart of hearts I want Harry to fall for Ginny, because then Harry would really be a part of the Weasley family if they got married. How cheesy is that? I know pretty cheesy. Sara From melssa99 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 00:15:26 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:15:26 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsession Quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10216 >From: "Jim Flanagan" > >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > > > Have you engaged in any form of body modification in order to > > resemble one of the characters from the HP books? > >Um. What were you thinking of -- sawing off a leg to look like Moody? > >-JF > > I don't know about cutting my leg off, but his magical eye would be really cool to have. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 00:34:02 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:34:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: More Obession Questions Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10217 >"Yes, Scott. All but the pens." > >Oh dear, you don't mean to say that you've named yourself Sirius, >too!?! > >Sorry for writing such a short message but I couldn't resist asking >this. > I have the pens, though the mood never occured to me! Thanks for the idea, all my friends read HP now so they will understand. And I go by Voldemort in French, mainly bc i HAD to have something french sounding, and since I am reading the book en francaise for a project, i figured hey why not...evil though it may be... Stephanie Who is in HUGE trouble bc my little sisters friend broke 3 fingers trying to play backyard Quidditch... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 23 00:34:34 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:34:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz Message-ID: <023901c084d4$4ea8ea80$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10218 Can someone tell me where this quiz is? I searched the archives and found a whole bunch of people proclaiming their percentages, but not actual quiz or link. Help? LOL Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 23 00:27:36 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 18:27:36 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My mirror of Erised Message-ID: <022801c084d3$49374a20$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10219 <> Took me a while to think about this. : ) The mirror shows my deepest desire, correct? I think I would see myself looking into the mirror and seeing a reflection of myself. Follow that? I'd like to see myself completely happy, with anything and everything that came with that. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ender_w at msn.com Tue Jan 23 00:55:04 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:55:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz References: Message-ID: <001d01c084d7$208695a0$e3690f3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 10220 Where is this obsession quiz that y'all keep talking about? ender From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Jan 23 00:54:03 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 17:54:03 -0700 Subject: Crookshanks In-Reply-To: <94ie2k+vul6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10221 >>>>>Marvin Long wrote: (Non sequitur: I wonder how an animagus reacts if, when in animal form, another critter of the same species goes into heat....)<<<<<<< I still think Crookshanks is McGonagall's love child. >:P Did she ever have kittens? What happens to a female animagus that gets pregnant while in animal form? SML From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Tue Jan 23 00:55:53 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 22 Jan 2001 16:55:53 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] From the good ship R/H Message-ID: <20010123005553.9281.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10222 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From donna.rae at verizon.net Tue Jan 23 01:00:25 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 20:00:25 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Calendar Question of the Week References: <94i14e+gm7b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004701c084d7$df2123e0$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10223 I have my daily calendar at work and whenever there is a maze or a word search, I have to make copies on the xerox machine and pass them out to all the HP fans in my group (that means everyone). Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Calendar Question of the Week > the Harry potter desktop page-a-day calendar's Question of the > Weekend this past sat/sun was: > If you had a wizard's fortune like Harry, what wizard things would > you buy with it? > > These questions are cute - would be good to use as "discussion > starters" in classrooms, I'd think. If people are interested, I can > post them to the list each Monday... > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 01:10:46 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 01:10:46 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's Strategy (was Loss of/Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94ilmm+ak8o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10224 > > Hi everyone, > > This is my first day with this group, but I am already glad I joined after > reading all the great insights! My opinion about this is that there was > some sort of prophecy and we just don't know what it is yet. At the end of > Book 1, Harry asks Dumbledore why Voldemort wants him dead, and Dumbledore > replies that alas, he cannot answer that question. But that when Harry is > older he will learn the truth. So Dumbledore knows, but he is just keeping > his mouth shut for now. You know, we've all speculated on whatever this special reason was, but I'm wondering just why it was that Dumbledore wouldn't tell him. Is it that it's "unsuitable" for Harry to know at his age? Concerns a secret that Dumbledore doesn't feel it's his place to reveal? Is it something that will become clear to all later (I too get the feeling that Dumbledore does know, but maybe he meant something else)? Charmian From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 01:53:00 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:53:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz References: <947q4g+63bf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6CE3FC.F719D1CB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10225 Here ya go, seekers after the quiz. --Amanda Jim Flanagan wrote: > Repost of Quiz URL: > > http://www.fuuko.com/hpquiz.html > > Have Fun! > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "John Beresford" > wrote: > > I am very interested in taking the > Obsessiveness Quiz. Can someone direct me to where I can find this. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Tue Jan 23 02:12:06 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:12:06 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Future sacrifices? Message-ID: <20010123021206.14042.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10226 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pbnesbit at msn.com Tue Jan 23 02:36:03 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:36:03 -0000 Subject: A note about the shipper poll I created earliar... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94iqmj+kli6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10227 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Monika Huebner wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:54:55 -0000, "Scott " > wrote: > > >Also I HAD to add in the Sirius/Yourself one for Carole and the rest > >of the siriusly Serious fans. (Erm, reverse that!) > > This is greatly appreciated. > > Monika > > > -- > Check out our book and movie reviews: > http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html I second that!! (even bigger grin) Parker From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Tue Jan 23 02:38:23 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 22 Jan 2001 18:38:23 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] roman mythology link with dumbledore and minerva Message-ID: <20010123023823.18191.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10228 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pbnesbit at msn.com Tue Jan 23 02:30:50 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:30:50 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <3A6C7191.9AE67E24@texas.net> Message-ID: <94iqcq+lhov@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10229 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > > > Sheep isn't quite the same as the other examples you give, because > > the word is exactly the same in singular and plural usage (whereas > > you could have several councils or assemblies). Would you say "The > > sheep was grazing in the field" in Am English if there were several > > sheep? > > Sorry, I was trying to illustrate collective nouns without thinking of > how they'd fit into the discussion at hand. Give me a break, it was five > in the morning. zzzzzzzz > > --Amanda Actually, Neil, I *have* heard folks say that in my necks of the woods (Kentucky--far western and South Carolina--Charleston). Makes me cringe every time. (Reformed English teacher) Parker From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 23 02:53:58 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:53:58 -0000 Subject: With Cat-Like Fur (filk) Message-ID: <94iro6+brmr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10230 With Cat-Like Fur (from CoS, Ch. 12) (To the tune of With Cat-Like Tread, from The Pirates of Penzance) (THE SCENE: Moaning Myrtle's bathroom. A large cauldron sits in front of the toilet stalls. Enter HARRY, RON & HERMIONE, all carrying ingredients for Polyjuice Potion, in furtherance of their mission to penetrate the Slytherin commom room incognito that they may interrogate Draco Malfoy about the Secret Chamber) ALL (very loud, with bold gestures) With firm resolve The Polyjuice we'll brew It really stinks And from boogers take its hue Here's our intent: We'll make just like Clark Kent If in disguise Slytherin won't get wise! They'll be filled with deep regrets When we learn their Chamber Secrets We shall new shapes assume! Transmogrification `Twas Calvin `n' Hobbes' elation We'll take the form of goons To leave Slytherin's scheme in ruins (repeat) HERMIONE (mixing various ingredients into the cauldron) Here's your knotgrass, then we add the fluxweed Stir the lacewing flies - now a leech we will need Powdered horn of bicorn, a boomslang's shred skin (The cauldron smokes convulsively, and finally settles. HERMIONE ladles the Polyjuice into three different cups) Finally, in each cup - just a pinch of Slytherin. (All three drops in a hair from the selected Slytherin resident. Each glass foams and changes into an even more sickening-looking color. Exchanging a single glance and a nod, the three retreat into individual stalls. Several moments of silence. Then, the first door open, revealing HARRY as Goyle. RON emerges from the second door as Crabbe. Then after an extremely long pause, HERMIONE emerges, but not as Bullstrode........) HERMIONE With cat-like fur >From the bathroom stall I steal HARRY & RON (as Crabbe and Goyle) Believe us, you look As bad as you must feel HERMIONE I'm so confused The hair I must have used Came from some cat HARRY & RON Can't Pomfrey fix that? ALL See how despite our toil Just why "Moste Potent Potions" Oft leads to great commotions HARRY and RON So let's see if Draco Malfoy'll Spill the beans to "Crabbe" and "Goyle." (Exit HARRY and RON, as HERMIONE retreats back into her stall. Myrtle's laughter echoes in the background) - CMC From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 03:27:04 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 03:27:04 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" (rather OT) In-Reply-To: <94gb0b+f7s0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94itm8+8q7h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10231 Jim wrote: "American teachers would 'count off' if their students used the British forms in class." Erm, yes. This is true. In fact my HISTORY teacher counted off for using British spellings in essay questions on a test. (i.e. colour, flavour, organisation, realise and things like that.) This sort of bothered my as it's not INCORRECT at all. A typical conversation would be like this... Me: "Well that's not spelled wrong!" Teacher: "Yes it is..." Me: "NO it isn't. It's just a British spelling." Teacher: "Well we ARE NOT in Britain so use the American spelling!" (sigh) Some people just don't get it... Another change I've noticed is that the British books use "Hullo" as opposed to "Hello". I've always used "Hullo" and "Hallo" b/c I remember them from the Winnie-the-Pooh books of childhood. I just hate Hello since some people say it- HELL-o and it sounds as if they are cursing... Now that I've deviated from topic... I'll sign off! Scott From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 04:00:59 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:00:59 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <006801c084b0$f92a8dc0$5551d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94ivlr+5hip@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10232 Nota Bene: All qoutes in this post are Carole's... "Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns" I wonder why Carole wanted to do this chapter? I also wonder why GoF finds all the Maruders (sp?) using their animagus names... "1. What do you think the quote above says about the wizarding culture. I was uncomfortable when Sirius so casually referred to inferiors and equals. I know he was speaking in reference to house elves and wizards, but what might the pecking order of the wizarding world be. Are house elves on the same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. Are the inferiors simply non-humans or are there inferior humans as the Malfoys believe. And does Sirius believe there are inferior humans?" --Other than the Pureblood/Mudblood issue their doesn't seem to be a lot of prejudice against wizards for race/gender and other problems that plague OUR society. Magic seems to have eliminated many problems- and created many new ones in it's place. This is an interesting question. I'll think it over and maybe find more to say... 3. What about Hermione. Is she showing more maturity than typical of her age? --Oh course. She's Hermione! ;-) Honestly though she handles it extremely well and loads better than I probably could. 5. Snuffles! How cute is that? --Leave it up to Sirius! Scott Who has decided to take leave and retire to his deluxe stateroom on the SS Harry/Hermione. From lj2d30 at gateway.net Tue Jan 23 04:09:02 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:09:02 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Spelling" (rather OT) In-Reply-To: <94itm8+8q7h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94j04u+1085m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10233 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > > Erm, yes. This is true. In fact my HISTORY teacher counted off for > using British spellings in essay questions on a test. (i.e. colour, > flavour, organisation, realise and things like that.) This sort of > bothered my as it's not INCORRECT at all. > > A typical conversation would be like this... > Me: "Well that's not spelled wrong!" > Teacher: "Yes it is..." > Me: "NO it isn't. It's just a British spelling." > Teacher: "Well we ARE NOT in Britain so use the American spelling!" I started to do this sometime in the 5th grade, in the midst of heavy "Little House on the Prairie" reading. LI Wilder used British spellings and I picked it up. I had the same argument you did. I lost (but the, I was only 10) Trina From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 04:17:06 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:17:06 Subject: Jumping ship (was What is no-shipping?) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10234 Hello, all-- Kimberly wrote: >Susan, you have converted me! >I am officially abandoning ship(s) of all kinds. Is Susan a no-shipper or an R/Her? :-) This made me grin, Kimberly--although I do hate to see you cast away on the Sea of No Romance. Are you sure no ship will suit you... not even Arthur/Molly? Hagrid/Madame Maxime? Lucius/Narcissa? LOL! >If R/H is disproven, some people on >the good ship R/H will be very, very sad, and if H/H is disproven >there will probably be some sort of terrible cry wrenching the sky >from the battleship H/H, so I have now decided that my preference is >ambiguity, so that long after the stories are over everyone can >continue to imagine what they want. LOL! OK, I deserved that... changing Kathy's "good ship R/H" in my reply to the "destroyer H/H". I can't speak from the R/H perspective at all, but I'm sure there will be no terrible cry from the H/H battleship-cum-Carnival Cruise if H/H is disproven (partly because one of our theories-in-progress is "all roads lead to H/H"... but I digress). Really, we H/Hers are extremely nice people. I think I've become one of the most vocal around these parts, but I don't have two horns growing out of my head. Most of what I post in the ship wars is tongue-in-cheek and is very indicative of my Type-A, quick to speak and react personality. I think the H/H image problem stem from the fact that we... I don't know... we post a lot more? We never declare that shipping is illegitimate when things aren't going our way? (I see that the R/Hers are now winning the poll, per my theory.) I'm sure that JKR will continue to rank among my favorite writers even if the next three books have no romance at all and everyone pulls a Hamlet in Book 7... as long as she convinces me of the plausibility of it all. >Kimberly, >hoping that no sides get offended by the implications of the other >side/sides that they are delusional/demented/defective and/or >suffering from a disorder because of their shipping preference. Nah, no-shipping is not a disorder at all! Just a preference. Now, the condition known as the One Big Happy Weasley Family (OBHWF) syndrome... *that's* a disorder. ;-) In closing, I hope no one *really* thinks that we take this stuff seriously! Kathy's an R/H shipper and writer, and I think she's incredibly cool. So is B Bennett. So is Zsenya. I've read all of their fics, have reviewed all three, and Kathy and B Bennett read mine. As obsessively H/H as I am, Kathy (Elanor Gamgee) and B Bennett are on my ff.net page as two of my favorite authors! Once in a blue moon, the debates on list get heated, but most of the time they're very lighthearted and teasing. I've heard shippers in other fandoms are not half as civil as we are. You see, no one's lives revolve around matchmaking fictional characters and writing mushy fanfics (though none of the most-plugged H/H ones qualify as sap--most of them are action/adventure or mystery). Most of the shippers I've gotten to know have families, significant others, jobs and/or school, social lives, etc. It isn't that deep... but it *is* a lot of fun. And of course no one's forced to join in... many veteran club members like our dear Amanda are complete no-shippers. These members might then delete all ship posts the same way I skim/delete issues that hold no interest for me. This is not the navy... we have no draft. But all too often, as we float by on the Sea of Romance, we see a confirmed no-shipper clinging to a piece of driftwood, weary of their shipless fandom existence. That's when we on the Love Boat/Destroyer H/H throw them a lifeline (usually the first chapter of PoU) and reel 'em on up. Right, Neil? ;-) I'm sure we'll be throwing out more lifelines before Book 5 is out. --Ebony AKA AngieJ <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From astrothena at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 04:26:29 2001 From: astrothena at yahoo.com (astrothena at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:26:29 -0000 Subject: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <94f3ut+7q7t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94j15l+5eq0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10235 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > Try the Hallmark stores. They have variety of HP stickers. > I just went to my regular Hallmark and yes, they do have stickers. Apparently they just got them in. So now I have my stickers. Also, they had a sale going on, all HP merchandise half off. I don't know if all the stores are doing that, but you might want to check. Thena From vderark at bccs.org Tue Jan 23 04:44:55 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:44:55 -0000 Subject: Crookshanks In-Reply-To: <002301c084ce$8a423ca0$3c851440@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94j287+2pah@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10236 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Diana Wisniewski" wrote: > Steve I'm a newbie but I had to reply. You said that Animagus are only > animals for short periods of time, but what about Scabber/Wormtail? I > personally don't think Crookshanks is an Animagus, but something magical. > But had to put my 2 cents worth in. Oh, for goodness sakes, don't let "newbie-ness" stop you from chiming in! You make a good point. I would say that Wormtail is in extremely unusual circumstances and his actions are atypical for an animagus. But that's just what I would say--nothing to back it up--and then why can't Crookshanks be another animagus in extremely unusual circumstances? My answer to that would be that if two of them are in those very unusual circumstances in the same place and at the same time, they aren't very unusual circumstances, are they? Thanks for speaking up. Have we mentioned recently how much we love seeing new members joining our discussions? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which is worth a look-see, if you haven't yet http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Jan 23 05:09:12 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:09:12 -0500 Subject: Dan in EW Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10237 Dan Radcliffe is on the cover of this week's double issue of Entertainment Weekly (The Year's Big Events) in costume. I must say he looks really really good. We may dare to hope. Inside the issue is the littl epicture of Harry with Hedwig on his arm that has been in a few other things. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "What Women Want" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman *************************************************** From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 23 05:04:52 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:04:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipper Poll Message-ID: <200101230505.f0N55mC09386@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10238 Ebony wrote: >Actually... as of 7:40 p.m. EST, we're winning. ;-) > >A pleasant surprise, actually. Penny's been telling me for months >that the fandom is pretty evenly divided on these issues, but I >always felt as if I was on the "underdog" ship. 36 fans are a drop >in the bucket, but it's still grin-inducing. > >H/Hers--make sure you vote! (Though I do believe that the R/Hers >will win. We're outnumbered!) I guess it's all a matter of perception, because I have always felt outnumbered as an R/H shipper (probably because the fanfic mostly seems to swing H/H). Also probably because Ebony and Penny together roar loud enough for a whole pack of H/H-ers! :) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Jan 23 05:13:41 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:13:41 -0500 Subject: Harry at the Super Bowl, Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10239 Great. Now I have to tape all the damned commercials, because I know I'll never be quick enough to catch it when it starts. On the merchandise topic, since posting my list I've acquired a few more things... 1. The Gringott's bank that's a real bank with a photo frame in the front. I must say this is impossibly cute. You flip up the letter "G" on the front of it to put in your coins. 2. Two magnets. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "What Women Want" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman *************************************************** From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 23 05:10:38 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:10:38 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Intro : ) Message-ID: <200101230511.f0N5BYC10393@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10240 >Kathy - thanks for the SugarQuill plug - you know we are hoping to >see yours up there when you finish it! (I can put what's done >under "Stories in Progress" if you'd like... Oh, I'm blushing... Absolutely, I'd be honored. (Ducks away to hide behind a book) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 23 05:17:58 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 00:17:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Shipper Poll and No-Ship Complaints Message-ID: <200101230518.f0N5IsC11440@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10241 >That's probably because we're right. > >--Ebony Just had to respond by saying that I won't dignify that with a response. (tuts loudly and marches away with a Hermione-like look) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From msl at fc.net Tue Jan 23 05:14:21 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:14:21 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: <3A6CE3FC.F719D1CB@texas.net> Message-ID: <94j3vd+v8ij@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10242 Alas, a measly 24% for me. Oh well, if it had been Star Wars I would've scored in the 90s, I'm pretty sure, and I've had nearly 24 years to work on *that* obsession...but only 3 weeks for Harry Potter. marvin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Here ya go, seekers after the quiz. > > --Amanda > > Jim Flanagan wrote: > > > Repost of Quiz URL: > > > > http://www.fuuko.com/hpquiz.html > > > > Have Fun! > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "John Beresford" > > wrote: > > > > I am very interested in taking the > > Obsessiveness Quiz. Can someone direct me to where I can find this. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 05:22:21 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:22:21 -0000 Subject: Lupin question In-Reply-To: <3A6C73CB.6FC2FE63@texas.net> Message-ID: <94j4ed+s7mv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10243 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Marvin Long wrote: > > > I suspect that Harry would have trusted Moody the moment he bounced > > Draco around, Lupin or no. When I was Harry's age, the image of the > > gnarly, crusty old coot that Moody presents would have been > > fascinating--hypnotizing, even. Add to that a personality that > > immediately recognizes the rottenness of my "sworn enemy" and we'd be > > talking about a pretty instant bond, or at least an instant desire to > > bond if instinctive reluctance still remains. > > It had been discussed that Harry's upbringing had made him very > standoffish towards others, especially adults. This might be why we hear > so very little about other students--he runs with the two close friends > he's made, and doesn't seem to seek, or want to seek, more. As for adults, > he's been close to almost none, and Lupin was the first taste of what a > friendship with an adult could be like, which is very important at Harry's > age. It's been my thought that Lupin helped mellow Harry's perception and > got him to be more willing to trust. I'm wondering how Crouch's betrayal > of the trust will affect Harry in book 5. > > By the way, all you other loners out there, I'm not saying there's a thing > wrong with having only one or two friends--that was my style as well. I'm > just saying that making friends with someone doesn't tend to occur to > Harry; they tend to make friends with him. > > --Amanda Okay...kids who've been abused..who've suffered....in adolescence, either become perfect kids, and love to rescue others, or start acting out and break all the rules (kids who abuse drugs, act out sexually (meaning both boys and girls who have multiple partners), who are violent (mostly boys, but that's changing some), who are self destructive (mostly girls, but not always)......Harry is unusual in that he breaks rules, but he is the hero. That's not unusual in kids who've been abused..they long to be the one who is brave and rescues others...JKR gets inside Harry's head, but according to her, he doesn't exult when he's rescued someone.....(on a personal note, I wasn't abused, but when I get to be a hero and rescue someone, I'm euphoric...) hmmmmm... Trust issues. It is absolutely true that if there is one person who can be trusted, this opens the door to trusting others. Amanda, although I would agree that Dumbledore is not quite a friend, he does start to prove trustworthy. I think Hagrid (see below) is the first step, then Dumbledore, then Lupin, then Black. Somewhere in there are the Weasleys. You can see Harry's healing path. First there is Hagrid. Hagrid rescues Harry. He's the first person in Harry's life to stand up to Vernon.....in quite a spectacular way. He arrives with food (symbol of nurturance), and then vanquishes Vernon and gives Dudley a pig's tail (yet we never are nervous about the abuse of power as we are when Crouch, Junior) bounces Draco. He provides Harry the avenue to escape. Hagrid almost immediately reveals himself as not really an authority figure. He's been expelled; he can't use his wand. He's a friend. Dumbledore is not a friend...yet Harry grows slowly to love and respect him. Or else Falkes would not have come in the CoS...when Harry takes Ginny to Dumbledore (who has been banished by the machinations of Malfoy, Sr.) he worries that no one will believe that Ginny was taken over by Riddle/Voldemort. When Dumbledore says that he is perplexed as to how Voldemort bewitched Ginny when his sources say that V is in Albania, Harry feels tremendous relief. By the PoA, Harry has trusted Dumbledore implicitly. (Harry has the opportunity to be at the Weasleys, where the remarkable thing is that everyone likes him) Then, I think you're right...here comes Lupin..he asks Harry to have tea with him (wasn't Harry very tentative about that?) Lupin teaches him the Patronus.....reveals that he knew his father.....and mother.. and becomes a friend.......this absolutely paves the way for Harry's relationship with his godfather....) {But Harry never really trusts Crouch, Jr. in the way he trusts Lupin or Sirius. He thinks he's COOL, he is grateful for his help in figuring out the first task, and in evading the ubiquitous Snape But he never really warms up to him in the way he becomes attached to Lupin or Sirius. I agree heartily with the person who made this point.....Crouch, Junior, is a swine..first he illustrates the curses in a way that is sure to retraumatize (cause flashbacks, typical of PTSD survivors) in both Neville and Harry..he does it deliberately and then he gets to "comfort" both of them. Swine city. Get Hagrid to give him a BIG pig's tail.} Harry is a great hero. He has the opportunity to kill Sirius, who he blames for his parents' death, but in part because of Crookshanks, he does not..he saves Pettigrew.....In part, he does so because he gets back control..HE is the one who can be merciful and compassionate in stark contrast to his enemies.... A toast: To Harry Potter! The boy who lives! These books are really good..don't you think? Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 05:29:36 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:29:36 -0000 Subject: Jumping ship (was What is no-shipping?) In-Reply-To: <94i926+sd7b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94j4s0+li1d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10244 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Susan McGee" wrote: > > > > Of course human relationships are at the crux of any good story.... > > but JKR has deliberately kept us away from sex...and mostly from > > romance....she has happily married couples...Petunia/Vernon; > > Arthur/Molly; Lily/James; Lucius/Narcissa; Cedric's parents; some > > adult romance -- Madame Maxine and Hagrid (no one seems to be too > > interested to discuss their romance? too adult?); a few adolescent > > crushes. but a lot of solitary adults..Sirius, Lupin, McGonagall, > > Snape, Dumbledore, Crouch, Moody, ..but the passion in her books is > > about friendship, (the Marauders, Harry, Hermione and Ron; the > > loyalty Hagrid and Dumbledore have for each other; the love of > > parent for child (Diggory; Potter) and the fight for justice > against > > evil. > > > >Susan > > Susan, you have converted me! > I am officially abandoning ship(s) of all kinds. > > When the issue first came up when I was a newbie to the board, I > kinda > thought I was supposed to choose a side, so I chose what I thought > would be the closest to a happily-ever-after ending for everyone, > simply because I love all the characters too much to want anyone to > be > left out. But even then I said if this were the real world I'd > prefer > that nobody got together because they're all so young. > > The more I've seen the arguments of the shippers (both sides), the > more surreal it has all become to me. I think you're right - the > important relationships in these books are the friendships and > loyalties that have been and continue to be forming. I'd rather not, > in all honesty, see any romances develop between the main (young) > characters, now that I've gotten to know the 'characters' on this > list. Just like I didn't want Ron or Harry or Ginny or anyone to > be left out in the stories, I now don't want any of these lovely > listmembers to be hurt either! If R/H is disproven, some people on > the good ship R/H will be very, very sad, and if H/H is disproven > there will probably be some sort of terrible cry wrenching the sky > from the battleship H/H, so I have now decided that my preference is > ambiguity, so that long after the stories are over everyone can > continue to imagine what they want. > > I know I'm kinda nuts, but I don't make my decisions so much based on > what I think should happen, or even what I would personally prefer, > as > what I think will make the most people happy. So from now on, I am a > no-shipper, and this is my shipless rant! > > Question for Susan - now that I've jumped ship, do I get a dinghy, or > a raft, or an inner tube or something? If not, that's ok, I float > pretty well on my own, I'll just stretch out on my back and relax. > Ahhh - dontcha love a good float trip? > > Kimberly, > hoping that no sides get offended by the implications of the other > side/sides that they are delusional/demented/defective and/or > suffering from a disorder because of their shipping preference. Kimberly, I'm sorry, but you don't get anything! Better enjoy the float..... If it's any comfort, I think about 50% of the list are not invested in future relationSHIPs. JKR will give us more data about future relationSHIPs in the Order of the Phoenix because the kids are getting older. BUT, as someone said, not too many people get involved in high school with their future partner (some do of course....but few).... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 05:33:41 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:33:41 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94j53l+mt5b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10245 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > > You see this problem also when people unwilling to use the "he/him/his" > pronouns as a generic unspecified pronoun use "they/them/their" instead: > > "If any student has a problem with this, he (they) should present his > (their) case to the Assistant Dean." > > It's clearly grammatically wrong, yet it's used everyday. Hay, whoo kneads > grammar? > > --John > Uh, John...If any student has a problem with this, s/he should present her/his case to the Assistant Dean..is correct, don't you think? He stopped including she a while back.... From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 05:44:30 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:44:30 -0000 Subject: Shipping Party Boats ... Anyone for a Cruise?/menage a trois In-Reply-To: <3A6BB081.BB570DA8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94j5nu+b231@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10246 Has anyone suggested a menage a trois? All three move into together...both Harry and Ron are involved with Hermione...in some circles Harry and Ron would also, uh, become involved with each other? Is there any fan fic that discusses this? Susan From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 05:44:48 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:44:48 Subject: Magical notions of prejudice (was Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10247 Hi Scott and all-- I was saving my post on this chapter until I re-read it (which I will do during my break tomorrow at school). However, something said today intrigued me. >--Other than the Pureblood/Mudblood issue their doesn't seem to be a >lot of prejudice against wizards for race/gender and other problems >that plague OUR society. Magic seems to have eliminated many >problems- and created many new ones in it's place. > Imagine, if you will, a society of powerful wizards from a ethnic group who is quite marginalized in the Muggle world... but from a formidable Pureblooded wizarding heritage that is respected. I'd say that they would be as snobbish and insufferable as any Malfoy... and their house-elves could tell tales. I'll post more on the race and gender issues later on this week, since those are my FAQs. I'm also doing a bit of research in magical traditions of the African Diaspora... it's relevant to an upcoming scene in my fic. Rita, you really *must* get that website up re: your theories of magic worldwide. We want to know what's going on in the other 3/4s of the world, too! ;-) --Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 05:57:55 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 05:57:55 -0000 Subject: What is no-shipping? Anne, "Grease" In-Reply-To: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE7E@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <94j6h3+4n5c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10248 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ABoyko at s... wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ebony Elizabeth Thomas [SMTP:ebonyink at h...] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 1:04 AM > > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: What is no-shipping? > > > > Discussing the love lives of 14 year old *is* boring. Not to mention > > annoying when you catch said 14 year old passing a note in class when > > you're > > teaching a lesson or oral interpretation or the present perfect tense. > > ;-) > > > I have to chuckle at that first sentence after all the debate over > The Kiss last week. I'm not interested in 14 year old's love lives either, > but certainly a lot of people here are! > > > --Ebony (who as a Lucy Maud Montgomery fan has no qualms about predicting > > future matches for kid characters... when you're into Maud, it comes with > > the territory) > > uh, except that I would never have noticed "the KISS" had it not been for the shippers who argue that it was "significant". Percy plunges into the lake to see if Ron was okay. Hermione kisses Harry when she realizes he is okay. Same stuff. Period. I'm totally into Lucy Maud Montgomery..and would not agree with you... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 06:05:05 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:05:05 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <94h837+ij8c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94j6uh+6rkj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10249 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Pam Scruton" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda wrote > > The grammar is correct, so far as I understand it. British English > treats > > collective nouns--like sheep, council, assembly, you know, words > that are Apart from my immediate family, the only people I know > who ever use subjunctives are Merkins! > > Pam You mean "condition contrary to fact" I wish I were King? Would that I were Harry Potter? We use them all the time..... S From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 06:07:07 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:07:07 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <94hmup+fbst@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94j72b+oc8n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10250 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > "Flying Ford Anglia" > wrote: > > Sheep isn't quite the same as the other examples you give, because > the word is exactly the same in singular and plural usage (whereas > you could have several councils or assemblies). Would you say "The > sheep was grazing in the field" in Am English if there were several > sheep? > > In American English (I just happen to have a grammar book handy!), > collective nouns are treated singular or plural depending upon the > context. Thus, if one needs to draw attention to the individuals then > the the collective noun is treated as singularly. > > For example, > > The committee granted its permission to build. ('Committee' is > treated > as a single entity.) > > The committee put their signatures on the document. ('Committee' is > treated as individuals.) > > :-) Milz Okay, now I'm beyond my depth.. I'd say The Committee grants its permission to build. And the Committee puts its (the signatures of its members) on the document.... Please help From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 23 06:11:48 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:11:48 -0000 Subject: Another Plea re: Subject Headings (Please Read!) In-Reply-To: <3A6C741D.CB8E1487@texas.net> Message-ID: <94j7b4+csdk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10251 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > > > I'm really in the mode of deleting messages with a subject heading that > > doesn't interest me at this point. I've got gestational carpal tunnel > > for one thing. But also, we have such a high volume of messages that > > reading *all* of them is just too time-consuming anymore. > > You new guys, if you missed that "gestational" in there, Penny's pregnant. > Which means she's grumpy, if memory serves. Better do what she wants. > > --Amanda And won't it be fun...as she updates us...might be the first baby born on the HPforGrownups list..... From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 06:32:47 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:32:47 Subject: Shipper Poll and Fanfic Trends Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10252 Kathy wrote: >I guess it's all a matter of perception, because I have always felt >outnumbered as an R/H shipper (probably because the fanfic mostly seems to >swing H/H). Also probably because Ebony and Penny together roar loud >enough for a whole pack of H/H-ers! :) > LOL! Thanks for the compliment, Kathy! Recent readable fanfic lately is swinging heavily R/H. I know this because whenever I do venture over to the ff.net site and muck about in the slush pile I come up with less and less H/H gold or tolerable equivalents. Kathy, your own tip led me to the first H/H-perspective fanfic by a new writer that I've enjoyed in months! The earliest fanfics were predominately H/H--so much so that when I first joined the PoU list in July I clucked my tongue about the lack of good R/H fics. As the fandom matures and the number of fics increases, the proportion of fics by authors with an H/H preference is decreasing *rapidly*. This was one of the minor reasons I began writing myself. And Kathy, I'll bet the R/Hers thought they were off the hook due to Penny's carpal tunnel and the upcoming arrival of the littlest Linsenmayer. To slightly misquote my current favorite song by Sade, "you know us better than that." Our dear Penny's more than earned her temporary leave... but rest assured that the other officers will pick up the slack. :-) The shoes of our noble field commander can't possibly be filled by anyone else... but I hear a rumbling in the distance. A few prominent H/Hers are rearing their heads... the cannonballs and flaming arrows being aimed at our ship have caught their attention. Compared to these sailors, I'm small potatoes. As for what we're cooking up in our mess hall, if you thought my tongue-in-cheek Freud theory stirred up the list, you haven't seen *anything* yet. And this time, it's not just me you'll have to contend with. After all, I'm just a special agent. :::cackles::: --Ebony AKA AngieJ (who is vocal on HP4GU, but lurks all over the fandom, even in strange lands... but *always* sails on the H/H... her stateroom's right next to Scott's) <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From catlady at wicca.net Tue Jan 23 06:56:16 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:56:16 -0800 Subject: Grammar - PoA - Ginny - Animagus Sex - Shipping Message-ID: <3A6D2B0E.E6F7A586@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10253 GRAMMAR Pam Scruton wrote: > Amanda wrote: >> British English treats collective nouns as plurals for the >> purposes of subject-verb agreement > Unfortunately this is all too true - British English NOW tends to > treat collective nouns as plurals but it was not always thus. When I > was at school our teachers made sure that we treated collective nouns > as singular and I have a big problem with treating them otherwise. I would be interested to hear if ="when you were at school"= was before George Orwell got involved in politics, because I really think I remember reading phrases like 'the government don't' in some of Orwell's essays. Btw, in American (non-parliamentary) 'the government' means something quite different than it does in British. John Walton wrote: > "If any student has a problem with this, he (they) should present his > (their) case to the Assistant Dean." > It's clearly grammatically wrong, yet it's used everyday. Why is it more grammatically wrong than using the second person plural 'you' when addressing a single person 'thou' (and having dropped the dual person from the language!)? My ABD-in-English friend assured me that the natural English language, before scholars tried to force Latin rules of grammar (e.g. no split infinitive and no ending a sentence with a preposition) on English, used both 'they' for a generic third person singular, and double negatives -- in fact, my umpty-ump years of French in school taught me only that negatives in French are REQUIRED to be double : Je ne sais pas (NE PAS), je ne parle guere francais (NE GUERE). > Hay, whoo kneads grammar? That' spelling, not grimoire. PoA Amy Z wrote: > Then there are the layers we start to see in other characters (snip) > namely Sirius, Snape & Lupin. (snip) In Lupin's case, I read and reread > the scene on the train and think about what it must have been like to > open his eyes and see the likeness of his 12-years-dead friend. > Likewise, when Harry hears James's voice for the first time, that's gotta > almost kill Lupin. How much of this do child readers pick up on? In case it's any comfort to you, I don't think it was any surprise to Remus to see Harry on the train (or to see how much Harry resembles James) -- I think Dumbledore, knowing that the Dementors would board the train, specially asked Remus to ride on the train to protect the children especially Harry -- Remus got enough information to know that Weasleys & Co would arrive at the last possible minute and that Harry & Co would be in the only unoccupied carriage, so that's where he stationed himself. Michelle Apostolides wrote: > 1 ) Is there any evidence to suggest goodness in [Pettigrew]? I don't see JKR showing us any, but there MUST have been some at one time: he WAS Sorted into Gryffindor and WAS close friends with James, Sirius, and Remus. Therefore, I choose to imagine that he made just a couple of mistakes that led him to the Dark Side, and then whatever good was left in him was eaten up by being on the Dark Side and associating with Voldemort. > 3) Pettigrew gives the impression of wanting to befriend people who > threaten him rather than be their enemy. > If this is true, a ) can > anyone suggest why he was trusted enough to be Secret Keeper and b ) > What does this say about the behaviour of the other Marauders as > students? Sirius said ="You always wanted to have big friends to protect you. It used to be us, now it's Voldemort."= First, even if it's true, it doesn't say that the 'big friends' are the people he wants to be protected FROM. Therefore, it does not imply that they would have treated him like they treated Snape if he hadn't prevented it by sucking up to them. Second, I suspect it wasn't true. I suspect that Peter in childhood worshipped James and Sirius rather than cynically planning to make use of them. Mike Schubert wrote: > We don't really see any examples of people being judged on the color > of their skin, but is that because of a lack of racism or because of > open-mindedness on Harry's (and the narrator's) part? We see LOADS > of classism (notably the Malfoys), and I'm just wondering if the ilk that > the Malfoys hang out with would judge people not only on their > wizarding background and wealth, but on their culture and race (and > sex and etc.) as well. Even back in Yahoo days, I was struck that the wizarding world SCORNS to judge people by Muggle standards like race or nationality, while being massively bigotted with their own standards like pureblood or Muggle-born. GINNY Kimberly Moon wrote: > who will defend characters whenever possible, and who has a soft spot > for Ginny I might be wrong about what Ginny seeks in a partner, and I might even be wrong about whether she and Hermione could make each other happy, but I certainly NEVER intended to put Ginny down. I started by saying that she's a nice kid! ANIMAGUS SEX Marvin Long wrote: > (Non sequitur: I wonder how an animagus reacts if, when in animal > form, another critter of the same species goes into heat....) I'm fond of a fanfic in which Sirius, having gone to town to pick up Muggle chicks but failed, turns into Padfoot to seek poodles instead.... Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > I still think Crookshanks is McGonagall's love child. >:P Me, too. > Did she ever have kittens? What happens to a female animagus that > gets pregnant while in animal form? I believe that whether the offspring is human or animal depends on which form the mother was in at the time she gave birth, not at the time the child was conceived. I wonder whether the human child whose father was just an animal is deformed or retarded or something? I wonder why the Animaga has a litter of one when the other animals of her species have much larger litters? Caius Marcius wrote: > Subject: With Cat-Like Fur (filk) As I have often said before, I don't understand what Hermione was upset about. If **I** turned myself into a Cat Furry, I would be overjoyed! I would go to work that way! And I would make passes at (some) men who had turned me down in normal form, saying: don't you just LOVE petting cats... SHIPPING Susan wrote: > not too many people get involved in high school with their future > partner (some do of course....but few).... And not too many people have magic powers, either, and even fewer save the world. Susan wrote: > Has anyone suggested a menage a trois? All three move into together > ...both Harry and Ron are involved with Hermione I keep suggesting it, but am always boo'ed down. > ...in some circles Harry and Ron would also, uh, become > involved with each other? There are supposed to be plenty of Harry/Ron fics, altho' they don't seem to jump out at me. --- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 07:06:26 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:06:26 Subject: The Kiss and LMM (was What is no-shipping? Anne, "Grease") Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10254 Someone wrote (emphatically not I): > > I have to chuckle at that first sentence after all the debate >over The Kiss last week. I'm not interested in 14 year old's love lives >either, but certainly a lot of people here are! My signoff for a previous post, attached to the above, was: > > --Ebony (who as a Lucy Maud Montgomery fan has no qualms about >predicting > > > future matches for kid characters... when you're into Maud, it >comes with > > > the territory) Susan put both of these together and wrote: >uh, except that I would never have noticed "the KISS" had it not been >for the shippers who argue that it was "significant". Percy plunges >into the lake to see if Ron was okay. Hermione kisses Harry when >she realizes he is okay. Same stuff. Period. > >I'm totally into Lucy Maud Montgomery..and would not agree with you... Isn't it funny that as a thread progresses, attributions go shifting all over the place? LOL! No shipper here has ever argued that the kiss was significant. The R/Hers certainly haven't. The H/Hers laugh about it and wonder what Hermione was thinking, but the archived posts show that for the most part we agree with you! I've said my students think it's extremely significant. Cassie and others have taken their own polls. Despite my ship preference, I still don't set too much store by it *especially* when I didn't even remember it upon first reading! Penny in the past has teased the R/Hers by saying "that's 1 in the H/H column, 0 in the R/H", but she even has admitted that it doesn't necessarily have deep significance. The kiss has absolutely nothing to do with LMM. My tendency to ship does. So I guess that's our point of disagreement--though I have a few Maud-fan friends who are shippers around these parts, mostly sailing on the good (?) ship R/H. ;-) BTW, Susan, if you're interested in a really good and active Lucy Maud Montgomery list that Trina, Kelley, Barbara, and I are subscribed to, e-mail us off list. We'd love to have you... --Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 23 07:07:29 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:07:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British -> American "Translation" (OTish) Message-ID: <200101230708.f0N78QC27543@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10255 Milz wrote: >lol I'm from the State of Maryland, the geographic beginning of the >Southern US. "Going down town" or "going down to someplace" is a >normal colloquialism. Like downy ocean, hon? :) Waving from Baltimore, Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 23 07:16:15 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 02:16:15 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Jumping ship (was What is no-shipping?) Message-ID: <200101230717.f0N7HDC28555@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10256 Kimberly wrote: >Just like I didn't want Ron or Harry or Ginny or anyone to >be left out in the stories, I now don't want any of these lovely >listmembers to be hurt either! If R/H is disproven, some people on >the good ship R/H will be very, very sad, and if H/H is disproven >there will probably be some sort of terrible cry wrenching the sky >from the battleship H/H, so I have now decided that my preference is >ambiguity, so that long after the stories are over everyone can >continue to imagine what they want. Oh Kimberly, don't worry, no matter what happens, each ship will just prepare their "why this relationship won't last and Hermione really belongs with ____" material, and go back to being smug or vehement as needed. (: Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee P.S. How is it that I have been checking my email for over 3 hours, and I haven't even responded to everything I want to respond to yet and I still have almost 100 messages to wade through? Eek. From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Jan 23 07:22:33 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 23 Jan 2001 07:22:33 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980234553.38415@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10257 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Fanfic by Catlady/Lily03.htm Uploaded by : catlady at wicca.net Description : "Lily Potter and a Small Circle of Friends" Installment 03: High Summer 1979 You can access this file at the URL http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/Fan+Fiction/Fanfic+by+Catlady/Lily03%2Ehtm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://www.egroups.com/help/files.html Regards, catlady at wicca.net From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 07:22:54 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Chris ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:22:54 -0000 Subject: Crookshanks! In-Reply-To: <3A6C881D.B672587D@email.unc.edu> Message-ID: <94jbge+100le@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10258 Aloha! Yes, I'm a newbie, too... I really don't feel that Crookshanks is an Animagus. However, I also feel that he is special. I have two very muggle cats but every once in awhile, both will do some pretty interesting things. And I have been able to teach them to do some very interesting things, too. So I got to wondering if Crookshanks really belonged to and/or was trained by Mrs. Figg or any other good, powerful wizard. Then was a plant in the shop to be with Hermione so as to help keep an eye on HP when he is at school but not in sight of the professors. I have noticed Crookshanks hanging out with HP a couple of times even when Hermione wasn't there. Crookshanks also wanders the castle and grounds. Considering how easy it seems to be for the 'bad guys' to get on property (Voldermort, Wormtail, Crouch, Jr., etc) via disguises, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a little extra eyes and ears around to help spot through the disguises. My cats do a great job a letting me know if someone is on property (even when my golden retriever lets them come strolling upstairs to my door!!). One cat protects me (well, mostly from the intense slobber of the dog) and follows me around while the other seems to be able to pick up the less than good intentions from a person. Why not cats (or any animal) raised from generation to generation by great and powerful wizarding families to do more than be just an ordinary cat? To be the extended eyes and ears of the owner? If HP can speak to snakes, maybe Mrs. Figg (or whomever) can speak feline! What do you think? Christy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Betty Landers wrote: > From: "nykteris" > Subject: Crookshanks > > Hi! > What d'you think - is Crookshanks an Animagus? > > K. > > > Good question. I've been wondering the same thing. He's obviously not > an ordinary cat. He seems to know what Peter-ur-scabbers was from the > start and Sirius was able to communicate with him. Any theories, guys? > (or girls, if you're politically correct and don't likt that general > usage) > Back to the depths of lerkdom. > Betty, who's disappointed that she's only 60% obsessed according to > DRMM's quiz. From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 07:24:10 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:24:10 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Jumping ship (was What is no-shipping?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10259 Ebony Elizabeth Thomas wrote: > But all too often, as we float by on the Sea of Romance, we see a confirmed > no-shipper clinging to a piece of driftwood, weary of their shipless fandom > existence. That's when we on the Love Boat/Destroyer H/H throw them a > lifeline (usually the first chapter of PoU) and reel 'em on up. Right, > Neil? ;-) ::camp tutting sound:: Oooh, she's waxing lyrical. > You see, no one's lives revolve around matchmaking fictional characters and > writing mushy fanfics (though none of the most-plugged H/H ones qualify as > sap--most of them are action/adventure or mystery). Most of the shippers > I've gotten to know have families, significant others, jobs and/or school, > social lives, etc. ::confused look:: But I thought...er...umm... ::starts swaying from side to side:: Harry is Life. Harry is Life. Harry is Life. --John, Chief Minion of the HP Cult (and won't THAT delight the religious opponents of the books!) ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George W.?Bush will make abortion illegal because "it's not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet."-Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000 ======================================== From studiodreamer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 07:27:50 2001 From: studiodreamer at yahoo.com (Andrea ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:27:50 -0000 Subject: Newbie arriving on Hogwarts Express Message-ID: <94jbpm+3k66@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10260 Hi Hi! I've been sitting here reading posts for the last two hours, and had to say a quick hello before putting on my invisibility cloak and retreating to lurkdom. I found this list through someone else's recommendation, and I'm glad she mentioned it! I took the Obsession quiz...I won't relay my final tally, but it was...low. Having recently been indoctrinated into the HP books, my knowledge is, at best, slim, but it's fun to read all the theories and ideas others come up with. I don't follow any one romantic pairing, actually, seeing as how they're still early in their Hogwarts careers, I'm not sure I'd want to see things bogged down by the "L" word. Maybe by the last two books or something...I don't know. People are pretty obsessed with romantic pairings in a number of other fandoms I'm a part of, so I'm standing back from that debate where HP is concerned. However, I do stand with those that like Sirius and Remus. And those two gentlemen can come like me any time they want. Anyway.... Great to be here! *~studiodreamer~* From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 07:35:00 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:35:00 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Grammar (OT) In-Reply-To: <3A6D2B0E.E6F7A586@wicca.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10261 I wrote: >> "If any student has a problem with this, he (they) should present his >> (their) case to the Assistant Dean." >> It's clearly grammatically wrong, yet it's used everyday. Catlady wrote: > Why is it more grammatically wrong than using the second person plural > 'you' when addressing a single person 'thou' (and having dropped the > dual person from the language!)? Because nobody recognises the 2P plural any more, unlike most other IndoEuropean descended languages. French has "vous", Spanish "vosotros", Russian "v'ui" > My ABD-in-English friend assured me > that the natural English language, before scholars tried to force Latin > rules of grammar (e.g. no split infinitive and no ending a sentence with > a preposition) on English, used both 'they' for a generic third person > singular, and double negatives -- in fact, my umpty-ump years of French > in school taught me only that negatives in French are REQUIRED to be > double : Je ne sais pas (NE PAS), je ne parle guere francais (NE GUERE). That's not what I was taught was a double negative in French. The examples above translate into English as contractions of two words. (ne pas=no do [don't], ne guere=no any [none]. Other examples: no ever=>never, not anybody=>nobody, etc.) The "double negative" that I was taught is, for example, when you're talking about something you've never done: Je n'ai jamais ne fume' une cigarette. I have never (not) smoked a cigarette. I hope that makes sense. It might not, though. My French is, 'ow you say, un petit peu rustique. (That is how you say "rusty", right? ;) --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to Campaign spending: $184,000,000 Coke habit in your youth: $300 per day Having your little brother rig the election for you: Priceless ======================================== From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 07:37:14 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:37:14 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British -> American "Translation" (OT) In-Reply-To: <94j53l+mt5b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10262 Susan McGee wrote: > Uh, John...If any student has a problem with this, s/he should > present her/his case to the Assistant Dean..is correct, don't you > think? > > He stopped including she a while back.... ::wink:: Not in the UK. Remember, we only discovered fire in the late 1940s. :) --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to George W.?Bush will make abortion illegal because "it's not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet."-Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000 ======================================== From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 07:39:24 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 07:39:24 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] With Cat-Like Fur (filk) In-Reply-To: <94iro6+brmr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10263 Caius Marcius wrote: > ALL (very loud, with bold gestures) > With firm resolve > The Polyjuice we'll brew > It really stinks > And from boogers take its hue "And from bogies takes its hue", surely? ;) Oh dear. Here we go on the Eng->Am translations again :) --John ======================================== John Walton john at walton.to When I am an Evil Overlord...#50 My main computers will have their own special operating system that will be completely incompatible with standard IBM and Macintosh computers. ======================================== From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Tue Jan 23 08:14:04 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:14:04 +0100 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] My mirror of Erised Message-ID: <01c08514$738351c0$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10264 >Monika Zaboklicka wrote: > >> Myself at the official premiere of "HP and the PS" (which, of course would >> be a wonderful movie), with JKR and Alan Rickman sitting next to me ;-) > >Oh, lord, that's *so* much better than mine....can I sit behind you? Or on the >other side of Mr. Rickman? > >--Amanda You're welcome! Just don't try to engage him in conversation too much, he's mine! Well, at least in the mirror... Monika From JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com Tue Jan 23 09:23:56 2001 From: JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com (JUSDUCKY1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 04:23:56 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry at the Super Bowl, Merchandise Message-ID: <8f.5e417bf.279ea7ac@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10265 In a message dated 1/23/01 12:22:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, summers.65 at osu.edu writes: << Great. Now I have to tape all the damned commercials, because I know I'll never be quick enough to catch it when it starts. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~ incase you missed it, here is a site that may be helpful..... AdCritic.com Ads: 2001 Super Bowl Commercials from Super Bowl XXXV - The Bigges on this site you can see the commercials 30 min after they air during the super bowl hope it helps..... Tessie From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 22:51:27 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:51:27 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Crookshanks References: <94j287+2pah@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006e01c0858f$0961dd40$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10266 Steve wrote, > But that's just what I would say--nothing to back it up--and then why > can't Crookshanks be another animagus in extremely unusual > circumstances? My mind may be playing tricks on me, but I *think* someone asked Jo that very question in a pre-GoF chat or interview. Her response (as I remember it!) was that Crookshanks isn't. Can anyone back me up on this? Of course, we all know that not even Jo is entirely accurate about Hogwarts ... ;-) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From drmaryrd at earthlink.net Tue Jan 23 11:35:46 2001 From: drmaryrd at earthlink.net (drmaryrd at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:35:46 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: <94j3vd+v8ij@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94jqai+3dck@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10267 Greetings, Fellow HP Devotees: I am a newbie to the group, but not a newbie to HP. I am a retired English professor who bought each book the day it was released. Actually, I had Amazon deliver Goblet of Fire by Owl Post, so that it would arrive early in the morning. There was no howler in my package, only a beautiful book that, as usual, I could not put down. I scored 94% on the obsessiveness quiz. I collect Lion King, Pocket Dragons, and now Harry Potter. My husband and I spend each weekend cruising stores looking for HP merchandise that we don't have. As I write this I am wearing a Sorting Hat night shirt and Quidditch boxers! I was thrilled to find the HP denim jacket with a fabulous Hogwarts applique on the back on my jaunt last Saturday. I'm looking forward to participating in this group. I love to be with other people with OCD! :) drmary --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Marvin Long" wrote: > Alas, a measly 24% for me> > From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 11:55:31 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:55:31 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <94ivlr+5hip@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94jrfj+n1kp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10268 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " wrote: > --Other than the Pureblood/Mudblood issue their doesn't seem to be a > lot of prejudice against wizards for race/gender and other problems > that plague OUR society. Magic seems to have eliminated many > problems- and created many new ones in it's place. On the gender point, Molly Weasley does seem to be a "typical housewife" as did Mrs. Barty Crouch, if this is commonplace in the Wizard world then there could well be gender discrimination isssues stemming from this. Neither women needed to stay at home with the kids after they reached pre-school age, yet they did. Dai From monika at darwin.inka.de Tue Jan 23 12:00:14 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (monika at darwin.inka.de) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:00:14 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <006801c084b0$f92a8dc0$5551d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94jroe+p79v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10269 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" wrote: > 1. What do you think the quote above says about the wizarding culture. It tells us that the wizarding world is structured like the medieval societies in Europe. Of course there is a minister for magic which implies some kind of democracy, but Fudge seems to have royal powers and we haven't heard of a house of parliament so far. I > was uncomfortable when Sirius so casually referred to inferiors and equals. > I know he was speaking in reference to house elves and wizards, but what > might the pecking order of the wizarding world be. Are house elves on the > same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. House elves aren't the same rung as hippogriffs, they are serfs. They are owned by their masters and they aren't paid. That was a common condition of peasants during the Middle Ages in Europe, too. Are the > inferiors simply non-humans or are there inferior humans as the Malfoys > believe. And does Sirius believe there are inferior humans? I don't think Sirius believes there are inferior humans. He doesn't support the racism that Voldemort and the Death Eaters put forward. When he decided to fight Voldemort, he decided to fight this kind of racism, too. I don't know how he feels about house elves, but Hermione might not have a hard time convincing him that they need to be freed. > 3. What about Hermione. Is she showing more maturity than typical of her > age? Yes, I think so. She is way more mature than Ron at that point. > 4. Did anyone pick up any clues that were useful to figuring out the ending > in his chapter? No, I was utterly surprised by the ending. > 5. Snuffles! How cute is that? I was a bit shocked that he called himself Snuffles... At least this isn't a name I would have chosen for him... *g* Monika From malinaschick at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 03:46:01 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 22:46:01 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why my favorite is my favorite... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10270 As I sit here, skimming my way thru digests apon digests I think I need to put my two cents into this discussion. Everyone I've seen so far has said that their favorite was book 3, The Prisoner of Azkaban. I didn't vote on the poll because I couldn't pick my favorite book. There is no possible way. I could probably narrow it down-but no, wait, i don't think I could. I'm gonna take a moment out to tell you why... Book 1 introduces us to the characters. It lets us figure out who we like, who we dislike, why or why not. My favorite part of this book is "through the trapdoor" because I love the rooms. I also love when Dumbledore gives ron points because I love Ron and find him the underdog in so many ways, he deserves it. Book 2 would probably be at the bottom of my list. It's good, but I can't really pinpoint one certin moment. That looks bad for me, I just finished re-reading CoS. :) I think the whole putting together who Tom Marvolo Riddle is together is so smart, I never would have figured that out myself. It also introduces you to Dobby, a character whom I fell in love with since I first pictured him, with big, orb like eyes. Book 3 is very good. It gives such good imagery, I want to go to Hogsmeade myself. Sirius Black, as I've come to see you guys absolutely adore, is a great character. It gives someone to Harry to bond with once he finds out the actual story. Crookshanks is a good character, once you find out he was so smart. Otherwise, I hated him because of the whole Scabbers incident. And the whole transforming into animals (the word is escaping me...) by James and his group. My future Siberean Husky *will* be named Prongs. The time travelling part was also very good. But we've speculated this whole book already. Something that no one else has mentioned is the Quidditch cup. I find myself feeling for Wood, and being so happy for him when he wins. I became attached to him, nad it's gonna be weird to be in Hogwarts without him, as it will be without Fred and George. Book 4 took me to the depths though. Reading it for that week this summer I'm really excitied to get the chance to pick it back up. (I'm almost through 3 for the 3rd time, working towards the first time re-reading GoF-I can't wait! I forget so much! :) It really is a book that appealed to me, and I worried about it being so long! I realized that JK really is good, and that she can make you feel for anyone. I fell in love with Cedric Diggory during GoF and cried at the end I'd become so attached. I think the whole story line through the book is good. I love the adventures they go on, from fighting dragons to saving people in the lake. It also is the first bigger hint towards girls, and how I'm *positive* that ron and hermione are really secretly in love with each other. The end kind of blows me away, and I'm biting at the bit for the next book because I want to know what's going to happen. It frightens me, and scares me. Voldemort at power agian. Could that really happen? So that's why I can't possibly pick a favorite. Utterly impossible. @~~~ Steph "Excellent, are we carrying on?" -Fred _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 12:17:36 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:17:36 -0000 Subject: How did Harry survive Voldemort's attack as a baby? Message-ID: <94jsp0+e887@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10271 What was it that allowed Harry to survive the supposedly unstoppable Killing Curse and reflect it back onto the user? In Book 4 Voldemort seems to believe that Lily's dying for him both stopped and deflected the curse. However, as I have seen pointed out in the past, people have probably taken an Avada Kedavra for others before, so there may have been something else. Also, in Book 2 Harry says something like: "Nobody knows why you lost your powers when you attacked me. But I know why you couldn't kill me. Because my mother died to save me." to Young Voldemort (Tom Riddle). I don't know how well-founded Harry's statement was, but it suggests the halting and reflection of the curse were separate things. Fanfic authors (including myself) have put forward various ideas about Harry being some kind of super-wizard. The books haven't yet shown much if any evidence of this (his resistance to the Imperius Curse is a possible clue), and it's impossible to know if that will turn out to be the case, but I support this idea. For one thing, it means Harry might have a chance of defeating Voldemort once his dormant powers emerge, which means the books can end the way everyone wants them to - with Kentucky Fried Voldemort. From hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com Tue Jan 23 12:15:18 2001 From: hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com (Sara Metz) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:15:18 -0600 Subject: Favorite Scene for HP Movie Message-ID: <20010123.061520.-523443.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10272 There's been a lot of talk about hoping the movie will be good and true to the book, which got me to thinking: what scene, from any of the four books, do you most want to see up on the big screen? For me, I suppose that I really want to see Quidditch, especially the final game in PoA where the Gryffindors win the Quidditch Cup. I'd also like to see the Dragon challenge from GoF. So what does everyone else think? Sara Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus Proud of my 104% Harry Potter Obsession Rating ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 00:44:48 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:44:48 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] fanfic References: <94f4ha+mcpp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a201c0859e$dbe94a00$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10273 > Once the first baby is born, HP will invite Ron and Hermione over to > visit; the old gang-of-three friendship will be reborn now that > everybody has grown up and settled down. But the young thing will be > jealous of the past and whip Harry into staying away from his old > buddies. For a while. But then Harry will get fed up with it, file > for divorce, and lead the life of the single celebrity in retirement. > > The end. LOL! I like it! If you'd only work it out so that it ends with the word "scar" you could peddle it as a possible conclusion to the series ... (Jo said the last word in the books is "scar.") Any other creative proposals? We might just manage to convince Jo to give up her original ending and choose one of ours ... =;-> Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From f95lean at dd.chalmers.se Tue Jan 23 12:46:35 2001 From: f95lean at dd.chalmers.se (Lea Niiniskorpi) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:46:35 +0100 (MET) Subject: Fred and George In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10274 On Mon, 22 Jan 2001, Steph Widger wrote: > I find myself feeling for Wood, and being so happy for him when he > wins. I became attached to him, nad it's gonna be weird to be in > Hogwarts without him, as it will be without Fred and George. That is sad to think about. I hope they will stay in Hogsmeade or do something else so that we will hear more about them. I am glad they still have one year left at Hogwarts. -- // Lea =================================== f95lean at dd.chalmers.se http://www.dd.chalmers.se/~f95lean/ =================================== From duo at dangerous-minds.com Tue Jan 23 13:13:18 2001 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:13:18 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: British -> American "Translation" In-Reply-To: <94j53l+mt5b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10275 >--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: >> You see this problem also when people unwilling to use >the "he/him/his" >> pronouns as a generic unspecified pronoun use "they/them/their" >instead: >> >> "If any student has a problem with this, he (they) should present >his >> (their) case to the Assistant Dean." >> >> It's clearly grammatically wrong, yet it's used everyday. Hay, whoo >kneads >> grammar? >> >> --John >> And Susan replied: >Uh, John...If any student has a problem with this, s/he should >present her/his case to the Assistant Dean..is correct, don't you >think? > >He stopped including she a while back.... Or you could use the plural sense if you have a really big ego. The Royal 'we' and all that. Nathan From Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk Tue Jan 23 13:23:11 2001 From: Pam at barkingdog.demon.co.uk (Pam Scruton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:23:11 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <94j6uh+6rkj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94k0jv+cqje@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10276 I wrote > Apart from my immediate family, the only people I know > > who ever use subjunctives are Merkins! > > And Susan wrote > You mean "condition contrary to fact" I wish I were King? > > Would that I were Harry Potter? > > We use them all the time..... Yes - that's more or less what I meant. Also things like "If he were to ...." rather than "If he was to ..." I also note that my Merkin (their choice of description - not mine!) friends are more likely to say "Because of his arriving late" which I think is correct rather than "Because of him arriving late" which is what I most frequently hear and see written. Pam From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 23 14:24:14 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:24:14 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Favorite Scene for HP Movie References: <20010123.061520.-523443.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> Message-ID: <3A6D940E.83E1AD80@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10277 Hi -- Sara Metz wrote: > There's been a lot of talk about hoping the movie will be good and true > to the book, which got me to thinking: what scene, from any of the four > books, do you most want to see up on the big screen? While I definitely want to see Quidditch, the one scene I'm most anxious to see if they can pull off as it should be done is the scene where Harry's patronus charges the dementors near the lake and canters back to him. As it reaches him, it bows its head to him & he realizes that it's a stag. There shouldn't be a dry eye in the house if that scene is done effectively. I guess it will be 3+ years before we see that one (and WB doesn't even have the rights to PoA yet I don't think). But, I'm quite anxious to see the film version of PoA (I voted for PoA as my favorite book even though it was a tough call between it & GoF). Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 23 14:29:03 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:29:03 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) References: <94hnb4+990m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6D952E.A25978B6@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10278 Hi -- Kimberly wrote: > I started with the most common theory as to why Voldemort wanted Harry > dead - that there was a prophecy or something that Harry would bring > about Voldemort's downfall. If that turns out to be untrue, then my > theory doesn't really work. > > First, I found Voldemort's description from ps/ss of what his life had > been like since his fall in chapter 17: > > "See what I have become?" the face said. "Mere shadow and vapor... I > have form only when I can share another's body..." > > Now let me quote Firenze from ps/ss chapter 15, The Forbidden Forest: > > "The blood of a unicorn will keep you alive, even if you are an inch > from death, but at a terrible price. You have slain something pure > and defenseless to save yourself, and you will have but a half-life, a > cursed life, from the moment the blood touches your lips." > > So what if it's as simple as Voldemort loosing his power because of > that? Harry was a pure, defenseless infant. Now the fact that Harry > didn't actually die might mess things up, but I figure it's still ok > because Voldemort *did* perform the killing curse. Of course that may > just be me trying to plug up holes in my theory... > What do you guys think? Kimberly -- I'm not sure I follow your theory. Are you saying that Voldemort lost his power because he drank unicorn blood? There was something about the curse rebounding off Harry that caused Voldemort to lose his power in the first place. He became "mere shadow & vapor" but managed to gain some strength some 10 years later because Quirrell was able to obtain unicorn blood to strengthen him. It was my impression that he was very helpless & powerless until Quirrell started obtaining unicorn blood to strengthen him (in other words, he wasn't much more than a shell until meeting up with Quirrell). Hmmm ... maybe I'm just not following your theory. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 23 14:36:22 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 08:36:22 -0600 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD References: <94ho84+51gd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6D96E6.9B831F53@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10279 Hi -- ebonyink at hotmail.com wrote: > Jim Ferer (I think) and Jim Flanagan have written both essay posts and > fanfics to describe this phenomenon. As I stated before, I agree > strongly with them. > > I also believe that not only would Harry be affected, I think that his > entire generation would be traumatized to a certain degree. I tend to > think of the Marauders as part of the "Lost Generation"... we don't > know many of them in canon, but from what we've seen, V. didn't just > play pattycake the last time around. That's one of the things that I'm loving about Ebony's fic, TIP, is that she does convincingly deal with what I think will be dark days ahead for that generation of kids. I'm not sure that many fanfics have really dealt with this to any real degree. I have always liked all the WWII parallels in the books (being a bit of a WWII buff myself). Is Brooks still around? He was writing a WWII-era fanfic at one point. I agree with both Jims and Ebony that Harry may well shun romantic entanglements & may even distance himself from his friends in hopes of keeping them out of danger. I think PTSD will be a real problem for him. As big a H/H shipper as I am, I don't necessarily see it happening in the canon. I do, however, still see FITD playing out (since I think Hermione has feelings for Harry). > This is why I think close interpersonal relationships (never mind > shipping for the > moment) would inevitably form amongst students who were at Hogwarts in > the nineties under Dumbledore, who at this point is the only > ultra-prominent wizard who believes that V is back. It's a matter of > empathy... you can only understand what someone has gone through on a > fundamental level if you've walked in their shoes for a mile or two. Yes -- close bonds will inevitably develop amongst that generation. I'm going to ruminate on this some more -- must skeedaddle for now. Penny From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 14:34:49 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:34:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Calendar Question of the Week References: <94i14e+gm7b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001f01c08549$a4d98700$382907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10280 > If you had a wizard's fortune like Harry, what wizard things would > you buy with it? A broomstick. I fancy the Shooting Stars, nothing as fancy as a Firebolt. I think that would be much better for everyday use. The speed of a Firebolt is only useful to a Seeker, anyway. And a hut in Hogsmeade. I'd love to live there as the local healing witch and midwife - witch a huge herbgarden, all sorts of animals... ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead. From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Tue Jan 23 14:46:16 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:46:16 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz References: Message-ID: <004f01c0854b$3e3cfe80$382907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10281 > Have you engaged in any form of body modification in order to resemble one of > the characters from the HP books? > Love & Light, > *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* Ahem, Elizabeth, do you have something important to tell us? Well, I have the Weasley-Haircolour, sadly enough not natural, but that happened long before Harry. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 03:14:41 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:14:41 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Planning the plot in advance -- prompted by Ebony's idea References: Message-ID: <00d101c085b3$cbcca300$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10282 John Walton wrote, > As I've found when working from a preplanned plot, some of my best ideas > come from completely outside the plot -- the Castle in Harry Potter and the > Song of Time being an example. Jo mentioned in an interview that the advent of Hermione's social conscience and SPEW were unplanned--in fact, quite a surprise. I find that interesting, since people have accused Jo of partially developing the SPEW sub-plot, only to dump it. When I first read the accusation, I discounted it since I assumed Jo would pick up on SPEW in later books. Having thought about that quote, perhaps SPEW really was an unplanned baby. OTOH, what with Hagrid and his big-boned girlfriend off on a secret mission, I think I see themes of social integration looming on the horizen--and plenty of room for baby SPEW (planned or not) to grow up. In fact, the SPEW question could add depth to the next books. So this may be an example of a bit of unplanned brainstorming wriggling its way into the plot--and enriching it. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 23 15:32:10 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:32:10 -0000 Subject: Copyright & Fanfiction (law stuff and a note for teachers on the list) In-Reply-To: <948cbq+hdvu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94k85q+aobo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10283 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Alexa wrote: > > > Legally, disclaimers mean nothing. When we write fanfiction, we are > > infringing on a copyright, we're doing it wilfully, and that could be legally > > actionable. Now, whether a specific case would be won or not, that's another question. > > I'm waiting for the day when we get a good fanfiction test case in court, > > because I think the argument can be made for fair use and the validity of art forms > > that incorporate appropriated material and popular culture as modern > > folklore and yadda yadda yadda. > > > Well, I wouldn't say disclaimers mean *nothing* -- they are some defense at > least. IMO, it's better to have a disclaimer than to have no disclaimer. But, > as a lawyer, I will say that disclaimers are typically more boilerplate than > anything else ... and definitely not a solid defense in this sort of situation. > Out of curiosity based on recent discussions, I did some internet sleuthing on > legal sites regarding fanfic -- I turned up nothing. I don't think it's been > litigated really at all yet. Penny is absolutely right. I took this opportunity, and my job as an intellectual property/privacy/electronic commerce lawyer to do a little checking on caselaw for this issue and came across an article from last March which said, "Fans of artists and artistic works borrow characters, situations and themes from pre-existing works and use them as resources for their own stories. The modern-day scribblers are housewives, students, average students; their parodies pay public tribute to popular narratives that capture their imagination. ... Although cease-and-desist orders are routine corporate practice, not a single case involving fan fiction has ever reached the courts." None. Ever. Why? No clue. Cease and desist letters have, as we know, been sent to fanfic sites (like the Star Wars Slash sites) and I'm sure there's been a Zine or 2 which have recieved them as well - but no battle has ever gone ot the courts and thus, since there is also no statute out there which says that Fanfiction is Not A Copyright Infringement, there is *no* law which affirmatively says it is or it is not an infringement (at least in the US). A 1999 Berkley Tech law Journal article (14 Berkeley Tech. L.J. 43) does discuss certain fan books, like a book about Twin Peaks which gives detailed plot summaries of each episode, and a book about "connecting" with star trek fans which likewise has extensive summaries of the novels, movies and tv shows, but that's not fanfic - and that (I believe) would be in Scholastic's purview here in the US, not Warner Bros, since Scholastic is the book company - and it's not like they've done anything about We Love Harry Potter or that damned Schafer Book Of Stupidity (tangent - has she a published email address? anyone want to send her an invite to this Egroup?) I also found an excellent Loyola article froom 1997 (17 Loy. L.A. Ent. L.J. 651) entitled Using Law and Identity to Script Cultural Production: Legal Fictions: Copyright, Fan Fiction, and a New Common Law which I highly recommend to any fanfiction writer with an obsessive interest in what is & is not legal. The article supports my earlier contentions on this list that it is possible to copyright a character, independant of the work in which said character is created, but the caselaw is mixed and confusing as to how deep and extensive that protection goes, especially with regard to fanfiction where the author is not claiming originality in the character. To quote from the Loyola article, "Quite possibly, fan fiction could affect the market for derivative works, such as novelizations of shows. The Supreme Court has noted that "the market for potential derivative uses includes only those that creators of original works would in general develop or license others to develop." There are several reasons to conclude that fan fiction does not fall within such a market. The nature of most fan fiction, which explores plot and situation possibilities generally refused by copyright owners, is such that it is unlikely to interfere with officially authorized publications. Romances, interior monologues, humor, vignettes, poetry, songs, and stories in which a main character dies would not support an official market. This is especially true because fan fiction often imagines rather earthshaking changes for the characters - marriage and death, [Hi Lori!] among others - that the "canon" cannot accept without signaling the end ... So long as such stories are not official, they retain their appeal because the characters return unscathed in the next episode or official form. Additionally, because fan fiction on the Web is essentially free, it does not use any monetary resources a reader might put aside for fiction consumption. Where distribution is free, the readership cannot prove that a viable market exists. Having to pay anything might deter almost everyone from reading, thus leaving copyright owners no better off." The writer agrees with me that disclaimers are legally ineffective, or almost so, but they also provide a way for the fanfic writer to both pay alligience tothe canon and demonstrate subordinance to it. Therefore, here's my This-Is-Not-Legal-Advice Statement: Fanfiction may or may not be copyright infringement, but you're definitely better off putting a disclaimer on it, and anyone who wants to risk being a test case on the question of whether fanfic is an infringement or not should go publish a Zine and send a copy to Warner Bros... > On related notes: Dai Evans wrote: > On a question of copyright morals, I wonder how many people on the > list can honestly say that 100% (or even 25%) of the software on > their computers is 100% legal. Mine is, 100%. I don't use Napster (although once the pay system there works out, I will!) and I don't borrow from friends. Even in college, I was such a goody goody on this issue, but that was because I planned, even then, to make a career in intellectual property law. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Zsolt Felf?ldi" wrote: > I absolutely agree, and excuse me for not thinking about that. It was > OK that you deleted my "illegal" message. The one thing in which i > don't agree with you, is that i still think it's morally absolutely > acceptable to download an e-copy of a book that i have BOUGHT and to > use it only for convenient searching of the text. I have another > point of view, another opinion, that's all. I don't want to sound critical or disparaging - but posts like these are the reason I want to (and have wanted to for the past 5 years) put together a curriculum for teaching Intellectual Property Civics in K-12 - if any of the teachers on the list are interested in talking with me about this, please let me know (Hi Ebony!) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 23 15:41:42 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:41:42 -0000 Subject: More on time travel In-Reply-To: <940ffg+qlco@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94k8nm+s5fg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10284 Oh, I know how late this response it - please forgive! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com on Jan. 15, 2001, "Scott " wrote: > It seems to me that the time travel in the HP canon can't actually > change things. Take for instance what seems the most obvious possible > change that no one seems to have mentioned. Why can't they just go > back and kill Tom Riddle before he becomes Lord Voldemort? > > But then I thought about it. Lord Voldemort would have happened even > if there had never been a Tom Riddle. Someone with enough greed and > thirst for power would have been in his place. It seems to me that > this (and examples of it throughout history) are problems with > society as a whole. If we don't stand up then we're bound to fall. > The wizard society must have been very vunerable. They needed a > leader, someone to turn too. Voldemort happened to have to fill the > position. If anyone wants to read a wonderful book that discusses the problems with changing history, I highly recommend a novel by Stephen Fry (yes, THAT Stephen Fry) called MAKING HISTORY (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1569471509/o/qid=980261080/sr= 8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-5939716-8357354) - it's about an Oxford student (nicknamed "Puppy" (siriusly!) who meets a professor who has created a machine which allows him move things into the past - together, they decide to prevent Hitler's birth - which turns Puppy into a Princeton student (along with two nasty brothers named Gallagher) in a United States that is consumed by a cold war with the Germans, who, in the 40's and 50's, were led by a wealthy, super- charismatic sometimes-actor who encouraged the creation of weapons of mass destruction, conquered Russia and made England and Europe subservient to his whims - an excellent & funny Changed History story. From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Tue Jan 23 15:26:10 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:26:10 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Favorite Scene for HP Movie Message-ID: <01c08550$d04f26e0$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10285 What I would like to see most: 1. Alan Rickman saying :"I can see no difference" (unfortunately, that's part four), 2. This cute little Norbert in Hagrid's hut, 3. Fight with basilisk Monika From rlpenar at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 16:03:22 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:03:22 -0000 Subject: Favorite Scene for HP Movie In-Reply-To: <01c08550$d04f26e0$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <94ka0a+mf9h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10286 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: > What I would like to see most: > 1. Alan Rickman saying :"I can see no difference" (unfortunately, that's > part four), > 2. This cute little Norbert in Hagrid's hut, > 3. Fight with basilisk > > Monika Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a detail person): I want to see the inside of the Weasleys house, with the clock that has no numbers and the ghoul in the attic; I want to see the mirror of erised with Harry looking into it and seeing people behind him; and I want to see the scene when Tom Riddle changes the letters of his name, Tom Marvolo Riddle, into I Am Lord Voldemort. I imagine these letters just floating in midair and then rearranging themselves, very cool. Also, since we're speaking of the movie, is there anyone else out there who is worried that computer animation will ruin the magic??? From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Tue Jan 23 16:04:02 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:04:02 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10287 In a message dated 1/23/2001 9:14:47 AM Central Standard Time, betty_belladonna at freenet.de writes: > Ahem, Elizabeth, do you have something important to tell us? > > Well, I have the Weasley-Haircolour, sadly enough not natural, but that > happened long before Harry. > > ~ Dinah ~ > > Sorry, no lightening bolt tattoo on the forehead!, but I also have artificially Weasley colored hair and I've intentionally made it Weasley-er lately. I'm hoping Molly and Arthur will think I'm one of theirs and take me home. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 16:59:39 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:59:39 -0600 Subject: SIGHTING! See today's Ziggy (I'll upload it to the photos/files) References: <01c08550$d04f26e0$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <003601c0855d$ec9ae200$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10288 You gotta love it.... Harry's being immortalized on the backpage. :) ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Monika Zaboklicka To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:26 AM Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Favorite Scene for HP Movie What I would like to see most: 1. Alan Rickman saying :"I can see no difference" (unfortunately, that's part four), 2. This cute little Norbert in Hagrid's hut, 3. Fight with basilisk Monika eGroups Sponsor Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From HPforGrownups at egroups.com Tue Jan 23 16:10:01 2001 From: HPforGrownups at egroups.com (HPforGrownups at egroups.com) Date: 23 Jan 2001 16:10:01 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980266201.4774.42477.k2@egroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10289 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Club Humour/Ziggy and HP 1-23-01.gif Uploaded by : gypsycaine at yahoo.com Description : Ziggy and HP 1-23-01.gif You can access this file at the URL http://beta.groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Club+Humour/Ziggy+and+HP+1-23-01.gif To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, gypsycaine at yahoo.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Tue Jan 23 16:15:07 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:15:07 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Obsession Quiz Message-ID: <9e.f1511ec.279f080b@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10290 In a message dated 1/22/2001 11:11:06 PM Central Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: > Could this *possibly* involve red hair dye, Ms. Weasley? > > --Amanda > > Amanda, I wish you really did have the power to legally change my last name! ;) Yes, I have Weasley hair. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From andrea at noembromation.com.br Tue Jan 23 16:26:09 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea H Bonfanti) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:26:09 -0200 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns / Magical creatures Message-ID: <006001c08559$79788920$01fde3c8@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10291 Carole wrote: 1. What do you think the quote above says about the wizarding culture. I was uncomfortable when Sirius so casually referred to inferiors and equals. I know he was speaking in reference to house elves and wizards, but what might the pecking order of the wizarding world be. Are house elves on the same rung as hippogriffs in the world of magical creatures. Are the inferiors simply non-humans or are there inferior humans as the Malfoys believe. And does Sirius believe there are inferior humans? Marvin answered: I think Sirius was talking about the universal social pecking order that exists no matter how egalitarian one's personal ideals. How well does the boss treat his employees, for instance. How does the affluent person treat the homeless panhandler, or the witch her elves. In short, how you react when you find yourself in a superior position with respect to another person or being tells volumes because such a position offers a chance to tyrranize and demean on the one hand and a chance to encourage and uplift on the other. That is just what I thought when I read that line. The fact that he doesn't even know Percy's name only shows that he doesn't have much respect to anyone who is hierarchically "inferior" to him. And I guess this is what Sirius meant, not that house-elves are inferior creatures. The concept of the pecking order in the wizarding world is interesting. Some creatures' ability to communicate with humans and the possibility of intermarriage with humans (see Hagrid's and Fleur's cases - half giant and part veela) blur the distinction between people and animals as we know it in the muggle world. The first time I read about the veela, I remember thinking "Are they a sort of magical creatures (as they were mascots at the world cup), or are they a different kind of magical people?". Later on, I decided that it didn't matter, that the concept was different in the wizarding world. Someone in this list once wondered if wizards and witches ate the meat from magical creatures. I don't think they do: people don't like eating anything that has a "personality", and even hippogriffs seem to have personalities. Just my R$0,02 (two centavos of a real - the Brazilian currency) Andrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pbnesbit at msn.com Tue Jan 23 16:34:10 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:34:10 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Spelling" (rather OT) In-Reply-To: <94j04u+1085m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kbq2+3f5o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10292 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Scott " > wrote: > > > > > Erm, yes. This is true. In fact my HISTORY teacher counted off for > > using British spellings in essay questions on a test. (i.e. colour, > > flavour, organisation, realise and things like that.) This sort of > > bothered my as it's not INCORRECT at all. > > > > A typical conversation would be like this... > > Me: "Well that's not spelled wrong!" > > Teacher: "Yes it is..." > > Me: "NO it isn't. It's just a British spelling." > > Teacher: "Well we ARE NOT in Britain so use the American spelling!" > > > I started to do this sometime in the 5th grade, in the midst of > heavy "Little House on the Prairie" reading. LI Wilder used British > spellings and I picked it up. I had the same argument you did. I > lost (but the, I was only 10) > > Trina I, too, have had the same problem. I've been using British spellings, punctuation, and grammar since I learned to read and write. However, *I* won the arguments with teachers. (I was *so* Hermione). Parker Born in the wrong place--alas! From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 23 16:47:20 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 10:47:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Jumping ship (was What is no-shipping?) Message-ID: <005101c0855c$40e1d000$27479cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10293 Ebony wrote: <> Yeah, I can definitely, definitely vouch for that. As for what happens canonly, if H/H end up together, I'll be cool with that. I dont dislike that pairing. I don't dislike any pairing. LOL I've read Malfoy/Harry, malfoy/Ron, Harry/Ron, Neville/Percy, Dean/Seamus, H/H, R/H, and various others. R/H remains my favorite, and if they don't end up together in the books, that's fine. I'll turn to fic and write it the way I want to see it. Now I have to go back and try and figure out what KISS is considered by some people to be so important. Only one I remember is Hermione kissing Harry's cheek goodbye at the station. LOL Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 23 16:57:30 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:57:30 -0000 Subject: GoF Banned in Australian School Message-ID: <94kd5q+8fka@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10294 http://www.salon.com/books/wire/2001/01/23/potter_ban/index.html - part of the article reads SOmeone from the schoo, "Christian Outreach College, a private school in Queensland state, said he read one chapter from the latest story about a young magician, "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire," and was exposed to four murders." I guess that was chapter 1... From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 17:58:32 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:58:32 -0600 Subject: Be afraid. Be very afraid. Message-ID: <000c01c08566$27f4ffe0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10295 91% obsessed with Harry Potter//Be afraid. Be very afraid. My friends always knew I was a bit odd. Grins. Thanks for making this test! ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 23 17:02:33 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:02:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) Message-ID: <007301c0855e$47d90980$27479cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10296 Penny wrote: <> I think I understand where Kimberly was coming from. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Kimerbly!) She was comparing Harry as an infant to a unicorn - both are pure and defenseless. Voldemort tried to kill something pure and defenseless, and therefore he is alive, but at a great price, the great price being that he is a vapor. So the curse rebounded and hit him because he tried to kill something innocent. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 23 17:03:59 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:03:59 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz Message-ID: <007d01c0855e$7ac932c0$27479cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10297 Amanda wrote: <> Thanks, Amanda! I got a 61% - not so bad. Would have been higher if I had ordered the British versions already, I think. LOL Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Tue Jan 23 17:52:55 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 09:52:55 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10298 drmary said: ** I scored 94% on the obsessiveness quiz. I collect Lion King, Pocket ** Dragons, and now Harry Potter. My husband and I spend each weekend ** cruising stores looking for HP merchandise that we don't have. As I ** write this I am wearing a Sorting Hat night shirt and Quidditch ** boxers! I was thrilled to find the HP denim jacket with a fabulous ** Hogwarts applique on the back on my jaunt last Saturday. Oooh! Where did you find a jacket? My Saturday jaunt was to Vancouver BC for the British printings. Mer (who, as a semi-lurker, waves hello to all the new folks) From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 17:49:37 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:49:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz References: <94jqai+3dck@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6DC431.A5BB7776@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10299 I've got it! I've got it! I understand the problem with the quiz. It needs some computation to determine the ratio of available time/money to time/money spent on Harry Potter, instead of absolute time/money to HP. See, those of us with kids and no money, who have to spend time and money on the progeny instead of Harrythings, are probably even more obsessed than you others (escapism, see), but it doesn't show in an absolute tally. --Amanda (why am I out to prove I'm more unbalanced than you already think?) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 17:54:35 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:54:35 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <007301c0855e$47d90980$27479cac@shelley> Message-ID: <94kggr+ik92@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10300 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Penny wrote: > > < Voldemort lost his power because he drank unicorn blood? There was > something about the curse rebounding off Harry that caused Voldemort to > lose his power in the first place.>> > > I think I understand where Kimberly was coming from. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Kimerbly!) She was comparing Harry as an infant to a unicorn - both are pure and defenseless. Voldemort tried to kill something pure and defenseless, and therefore he is alive, but at a great price, the great price being that he is a vapor. So the curse rebounded and hit him because he tried to kill something innocent. > > Rina Rina, Thank you for being so much more clear that I managed to be! That is just what I was trying to say! There's nothing in Firenze's description of what happens to those who drink unicorn blood to say that the phenomenon would be unique to the death of a unicorn. What he says is '...you have slain something pure and defenseless to save yourself, and you will have but a half-life..." It seems to be similar to what happened to Voldemort after he tried to curse Harry, so I thought maybe the same thing applied in the magical world with anything pure and defenseless, like a baby. It's kind of a stretch, but it's the first thing that stood out to me as a possible explanation that wouldn't include something outside of canon like Lily performing some special charm or Harry being super-baby. I don't know if it's true, but it is one theory I've come up with. I hope that makes more sense now? kimberly From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 17:54:31 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 11:54:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns References: <94jrfj+n1kp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6DC557.F5F61570@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10301 Dai Evans wrote: > Neither women needed to stay at home with the > kids after they reached pre-school age, yet they did. But imagine the mayhem possible at a wizarding version of daycare. Not only do you have a double handful of small children, it's a double handful of small children who are learning magic like ours learn ABCs. Perhaps wizarding daycare providers are rare, therefore, and there wasn't much other option. Nor do we know whether the wallflower wives we've seen--Mrs. Crouch and Mrs. Malfoy--raised their sons or had nannies. Molly probably stayed home with the kids for monetary reasons. I've been there--for a while we would have lost money if I'd worked, since daycare for three preschoolers would have cost more than my job brought in. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 18:06:32 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:06:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] roman mythology link with dumbledore and minerva References: <20010123023823.18191.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <3A6DC828.BFFF8D7C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10302 Star wrote: > on topic, I knew minerva was from Roman myth but didn't realize the stuff about Albus, just shows how good of a writer J.K. is being able to slip that sort of thing in. I really honestly still think that the person most surprised with all the repercussions and connections with the names which we have found would be JKR. I still think part of her genius as a writer is the ability to pick names out of the air that are perfect, that "feel" right, that work, even without consciously realizing why. She's just good at it, in the same way that Shakespeare (or whoever) was a genius at creating real, believable characters who stand up to modern psychoanalysis. He was just *good* at it. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 18:10:30 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:10:30 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grammar question References: <94j72b+oc8n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6DC915.735163EA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10303 Susan McGee wrote: > Okay, now I'm beyond my depth.. > > I'd say > > The Committee grants its permission to build. British: The Committee grant its permission to build. > And the Committee puts its (the signatures of its members) on the > document.... British: And the Committee put its signatures on the document. Only the second sounds "right" to me, for whatever reason. I read Watership Down a jillion times at an impressionable age, and Richard Adams uses what I've identified as British usage, so that's probably why any of it does. --Amanda From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 18:12:18 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:12:18 -0000 Subject: Favorite Scene for HP Movie In-Reply-To: <94ka0a+mf9h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94khi2+ktg1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10304 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > > Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live > up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I > would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a detail > person): I'm like you - I want to see some of the smaller things, like the first moment Harry and the Dursleys meet Hagrid (which, granted, Isn't all that small of a thing), but also... I want to see the wall opening into Diagon Alley. I want to see what they decide cauldron cakes look like. I want to see Harry's wand 'choose' him. I want to see Scabbers bite Goyle. I want to see a snuff box with whiskers. I want to see the the Fat Lady and the Gryf common room. And I really really really want to see the sorting hat, and here the whole school singing Hoggy Warty Hogwarts to different tunes. OOOH! And I want to see the giant chess game! I don't so much want to see Voldy in the back of Quirrel's head though, that sounded kinda icky. And I haven't even thought yet what I want to see from books 2, 3, 4... kimberly From summers.65 at osu.edu Tue Jan 23 18:23:38 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:23:38 -0500 Subject: The Good Ship H/H Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10305 So, who's captain of the Good Ship H/H? I vote for Penny. Ebony can be first mate. See, the reason I never jump in to the shipper debates (even though it's pretty common knowledge where *my* loyalties lie) is because I know I don't have to. Penny will say it all for me. :-) As for the Good Ship, can I be Your Cruise Director? Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "What Women Want" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman *************************************************** From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 18:19:04 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:19:04 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: More on time travel (Song of Time) In-Reply-To: <94k8nm+s5fg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10306 General response to the Time Travel thing from the bloke writing a fanfic about it (me :D): In Song of Time (Time, geddit?), I'm planning on having a sort of "delayed-action" thing when Our Heroes (no, I'm not being more specific than that :D) go back to the past to change time. The changes that occur are going to happen over the period of a few hours. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter :D --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Jan 23 18:20:35 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:20:35 -0000 Subject: How did Harry survive Voldemort's attack as a baby? In-Reply-To: <94jsp0+e887@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ki1j+2vgu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10307 Keith Fraser wrote: > What was it that allowed Harry to survive the supposedly unstoppable > Killing Curse and reflect it back onto the user? In Book 4 Voldemort > seems to believe that Lily's dying for him both stopped and deflected > the curse. However, as I have seen pointed out in the past, people > have probably taken an Avada Kedavra for others before, so there may > have been something else. > > Also, in Book 2 Harry says something like: "Nobody knows why you lost > your powers when you attacked me. But I know why you couldn't kill > me. Because my mother died to save me." to Young Voldemort (Tom > Riddle). I don't know how well-founded Harry's statement was, but it > suggests the halting and reflection of the curse were separate things. > > Fanfic authors (including myself) have put forward various ideas > about Harry being some kind of super-wizard. The books haven't yet > shown much if any evidence of this (his resistance to the Imperius > Curse is a possible clue), and it's impossible to know if that will > turn out to be the case, but I support this idea. For one thing, it > means Harry might have a chance of defeating Voldemort once his > dormant powers emerge, which means the books can end the way everyone > wants them to - with Kentucky Fried Voldemort. According to the books, no one really knows how Harry survived the curse, though Dumbledore and probably other wizards have theories. So far the commonly accepted theory is that Lily's sacrifice deflected the curse. But I'm not too sure.... In SS/PS, Mr. Ollivander tells Harry that Lily's wand was good for charms work and James' wand was good for transfigurations. This is probably a BIG clue. We find out in PoA that James was into transfigurations, to the point he was an unregistered animagus. This leaves Lily's forte. Was it charms? And what exactly were the Potters role during the Voldemort years? Could Lily have been working to find charms against Avada Kedavra and the Cruciatus Curse? If so, then maybe she charmed Harry with an experimental anti-Aveda Kedavra charm, when they went into hiding. In PoA, it says that the Potters knew Voldemort was after them. Also, about the Avada Kedavra curse, what exactly is it? In GoF, Harry sees a green flash of light, then a rushing sound. What is causing the rushing sound? Is it a monster or part of the cursor (I hesitate to use the word 'soul') rushing toward the victim? If it is part of the cursor, then that could explain how Voldemort transferred some of himself into Harry (CoS Dumbledore). Milz From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 18:18:09 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:18:09 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Favorite Scene for HP Movie References: <20010123.061520.-523443.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> Message-ID: <3A6DCAE1.B7F91310@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10308 Sara Metz wrote: > There's been a lot of talk about hoping the movie will be good and true > to the book, which got me to thinking: what scene, from any of the four > books, do you most want to see up on the big screen? In no particular order: The scene where Snape confiscates the Marauder's Map, and asks Lupin in. I've got to see the facial expressions, they've got to be priceless. Quidditch in any incarnation Snape's initial introduction to his class Snape and Lockhart's duel The final dinner at Hogwarts in book 4. That's all I could think of off the cuff. Dear me, a lot of Snape, even not having read the books since before Christmas! Perhaps I need to write a Snape obssession quiz.... --Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 23 18:24:29 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:24:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Lupin question References: <94j4ed+s7mv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6DCC5C.46637158@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10309 Susan McGee wrote: > Trust issues. It is absolutely true that if there is one person who > can be trusted, this opens the door to trusting others. Amanda, > although I would agree that Dumbledore is not quite a friend, he does > start to prove trustworthy. I think Hagrid (see below) is the first > step, then Dumbledore, then Lupin, then Black. Somewhere in there are > the Weasleys. You can see Harry's healing path. I think you got what I meant, though. I was thinking that Lupin was the first adult male friend, on the role-model type image. Hagrid's kind of a special case, not quite on the same footing with the other adults, at least in Harry's mind, isn't he? Dumbledore is revered and trusted, but perhaps too much revered to be familiar with. And he hasn't gotten too much time with Black yet. So just as Harry's really coming to relax and let himself--dare I say--love Lupin, he leaves, which leaves a void where none had been before and made things a tad easier for Moody. But again, you're right, Moody was not close to Harry the same way that Lupin and Sirius are. --Amanda From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 23 18:32:35 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Flying Ford Anglia) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:32:35 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" Message-ID: <94kio3+dcs3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10310 Ebony said: <<>> *** It was a chill night, as the vast passenger liner H/H sailed into inky blackness. While thousands of people slept soundly in their cabins, Duty Officer Ebony Thomas sat in the Crow's Nest watchfully scanning the swelling waters for signs of trouble. All seemed quiet, so she returned to her book, "Snitch Bitch: The Memoirs of a Quidditch Queen". After a few moments, she felt a blast of cold and sudden unease. She glanced up and, from nowhere, there it was, like a vast building of opalescent glass. They were going to hit it for sure: SOLID ICE! Ebony hurtled down the iron staircase to the deck below, her heart pounding. 'Head for the lifeboats!' she screamed, arms akimbo, eyes flashing a little too madly. 'Women, children and small, unfashionable models of car first!!!' On the far side of the ship, Captain Linsenmayer heard the commotion, as people began flinging open cabin doors, shouting to each other and generally stampeding the deck outside her cabin. She was in the middle of a prenatal deep breathing routine and really didn't appreciate the interruption. Slowly, she eased herself up and opened the door. As she stepped outside, there was a ghastly metallic creaking, followed by a deafening crash, as the ship hit the berg. The Captain gasped in horror, and clung to the doorpost. Meanwhile, down below, able mechanimagus FF Anglia rolled out of his housing in the boiler room, and with a flash of his headlamps, transformed into a boyishly handsome human form. He made his way to the upper decks, quickly, ignoring the panic around him, and made a beeline for the nearest lifeboat. He sneaked under the tarpaulin, shut his ears to the hubbub outside, and waited . Three hours later, FF awoke to the sound of distant screams. He was adrift in the lifeboat, and surrounded by a ring of faces, most of them sprouting whiskers: three hags, a House-Elf dressed in a flour- sack and a couple of disgruntled cats. He looked over the side of the boat. In the distance, the gigantic shape of the H/H was angled at a dangerous slant and beginning a slow slide beneath the surface of the ocean. He could just about make out the pregnant silhouette of the Captain near the prow, grimly determined to go down with her ship. Exhausted, FF fell back into the boat and soon drifted into a half-conscious state Ten hours later still, FF woke up again and all was silent, but for the gentle cackling of the hags and the lapping of brine against the sides of the boat. He looked around the starlit waters and felt inner calm, but great sadness. There wasn't a ship in sight. Neil (Hmmm. Ships AND fanfic? I must get that seen to...) From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Jan 23 18:39:48 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:39:48 -0000 Subject: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <94j72b+oc8n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kj5k+523r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10311 "Susan McGee" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > > "Flying Ford Anglia" > > wrote: > > > > Sheep isn't quite the same as the other examples you give, because > > the word is exactly the same in singular and plural usage (whereas > > you could have several councils or assemblies). Would you say "The > > sheep was grazing in the field" in Am English if there were several > > sheep? > > > > In American English (I just happen to have a grammar book handy!), > > collective nouns are treated singular or plural depending upon the > > context. Thus, if one needs to draw attention to the individuals > then > > the the collective noun is treated as singularly. > > > > For example, > > > > The committee granted its permission to build. ('Committee' is > > treated > > as a single entity.) > > > > The committee put their signatures on the document. ('Committee' is > > treated as individuals.) > > > > :-) Milz > > > Okay, now I'm beyond my depth.. > > I'd say > > The Committee grants its permission to build. > > And the Committee puts its (the signatures of its members) on the > document.... > > Please help The sentence could be written: The Committee put their signatures on the document. OR The Committee members put their signatures on the document. And would still have the same meaning. But in the first example, "members" is understood (The Committee put their signatures on the document.) See, it's the context. "The Committee puts its signature on the document". Implies that the Committee uses a rubber stamp or something to sign documents as 'The Committee' because "its" is singular and refers to the Committee as a whole, rather than individuals. :-)Milz Ain't grammar grand? From rlpenar at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 18:37:53 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:37:53 -0000 Subject: Favorite Scene for HP Movie In-Reply-To: <94khi2+ktg1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kj21+67nt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10312 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > > > > > Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live > > up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I > > would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a > detail > > person): > > I'm like you - I want to see some of the smaller things, like the > first moment Harry and the Dursleys meet Hagrid (which, granted, Isn't > all that small of a thing), but also... > I want to see the wall opening into Diagon Alley. > I want to see what they decide cauldron cakes look like. > I want to see Harry's wand 'choose' him. > I want to see Scabbers bite Goyle. > I want to see a snuff box with whiskers. > I want to see the the Fat Lady and the Gryf common room. > > And I really really really want to see the sorting hat, and here the > whole school singing Hoggy Warty Hogwarts to different tunes. > OOOH! And I want to see the giant chess game! > I don't so much want to see Voldy in the back of Quirrel's head > though, that sounded kinda icky. > And I haven't even thought yet what I want to see from books 2, 3, > 4... > > kimberly Yes, yes, yes! And the scenery too, although we'll be missing the descriptive words JKR uses to talk about what things look like (is squashy the most perfect word to describe an armchair or what!?) ~ I guess that's why books are usually better than the movie though...but to see the castle from the boats when they are being led by Hagrid, or the classrooms, or even Dudley's room... Becky From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 18:44:05 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:44:05 +0000 Subject: CROSS-POST: HP and the Song of Time 5 up at FFN! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10313 NOTE: THIS IS A CROSS-POST to HPFGU, POU and HP_FF. And that has nothing to do with my current FFN ire. >:| We are not amused. Hello all, http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=186735 Chapter 5 of Harry Potter and the Song of Time (SoT) has finally been uploaded to fanfiction.net, after trials, tribulations, rain, snow, sleet, hail, brimstone, locusts...and small furry wombats named Constance who enjoy knitting, travel and can say the Greek alphabet backwards. In this episode, we have... More Castle More nude bathing ;) More Institute More everyone! Special thanks to the BetaBeaters extraordinaire (hello Angels!) Cassie, Ebony and Penny! (Cassie gets a whole tray of cupcakes for trying to help me out with my FFN problems. They're devil's food cakes. How appropriate :D) That link again, http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=186735 --John (Crazy Ivan) == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic?action=story-read&storyid=186735 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 23 18:48:57 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:48:57 -0000 Subject: The Good Ship H/H In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94kjmp+m8ih@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10314 Hey, moderators - is this the right moment to suggest it should be off limits to make a comment that any ship that one disagrees with is "a little dinghy". Ok, bad pun over. Time for me to make my stand (and it's the kind of swaying back & forth rolling that ships do in inclement weather) on the issue. So I'm writing a fanfic which, if it becomes anything, will be Draco/Hermione, and my favorite fanfics are all H/H, and out of all the arguments for which ship makes the most sense, I have to agree with 9 out of10 of the H/H ones. I'm not vehement about it, and I totally understand where the nonshippers are coming from (are they all on some deserted island, working on their Reward Challenges or something, if they're not on a ship?) but I think it's time for me to publicly hop onto the SS H/H. However, at the request of my husband, and of Cassandra, who heard it first, I want to post my husband's explanation of Why He Thinks Harry & Hermione Don't Belong TOgether (of course, he doesn't think she belongs with ron either, although he suspects the books will go that way): Harry, having had a terrible childhood, traumatic experiences fighting evil, and likely further horrors in the future, needs someone flashier than Hermione - not necessarily some school trollop, but someone who is more of the arm-candy variety (although not necessarily just another dumb blonde). I'll see if I can get him to expand on this more later, but for now...all of you can just tear my husband to shreds... From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 18:52:46 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:52:46 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grammar question In-Reply-To: <3A6DC915.735163EA@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10315 Amanda Lewanski wrote: >> The Committee grants its permission to build. > > British: The Committee grant its permission to build. Hmm. Does this --> sound better? The Committee grant THEIR permission to build. >> And the Committee puts its (the signatures of its members) on the >> document.... > > British: And the Committee put its signatures on the document. The Committee put THEIR signatures on the document. > Only the second sounds "right" to me, for whatever reason. I read > Watership Down a jillion times at an impressionable age, and Richard > Adams uses what I've identified as British usage, so that's probably why > any of it does. Does that help? == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From ak928 at barnard.edu Tue Jan 23 18:58:05 2001 From: ak928 at barnard.edu (Ashley Kelly) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:58:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] More Obession Questions In-Reply-To: <94dgub+92v7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10316 I was in Phoenix, Arizona on Boxing day but I still woke up at 5am, went into the computer room, hooked up my computer to the BBC online and spent the entire morning listening to HP. My family thought I was nuts. I also recently had a bag of Bertie Botts in which I got 4 horshradish in a row! Accidently. I do not care for them, nor do I like the booger one but I was brave enough to at least try it before spitting it out. Pepper, however, is wonderful. Now, back at school in New York City, my floormates have finally come around. They were banging down my door the first day back saying they had picked up one of the books and finally realized why I am so obsessed. Now all of my copies are traveling around the hall. I love the spread of Potter! Ashley On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Scott wrote: > Ok here are a few more questions that weren't on Dr.MM's quiz but if > they had of been my score would have been higher.... > > 1. Did you listen to Harry Potter and the Philosopher's stone on BBC > radio four on Boxing day? > 2. Even though you're not British? > 3. Do you have a stick/paintbrush or other item that you've lovingly > dubbed your "wand"? > 4. Do you own the Harry Potter pens and alernate them according to > you mood? (i.e. Snape when you're feeling nasty or Hermione when > you're feeling smart) > 5. Have complained to the store clerks about the artwork on HP > merchandise? (I was tempted to do this.) > 6. When picking a Latin name for your Latin Class made the most > obvious choice- Sirius! (of course) > 7. Actually ENJOYED tasting the "Bertie Blotts Every Flavour Beans" > including the yucky ones. > 8. Have found have developed other interest/obessions partly b/c of > HP. (i.e. Fantasy Books, Anglophilism etc...) > > Can anyone else say "yes" to these besides me? > > Scott > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > Choose 3 DVDs for $0.49 each! > width > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 19:00:56 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:00:56 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94kggr+ik92@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kkd8+r593@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10317 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > > Penny wrote: > > > > < > Voldemort lost his power because he drank unicorn blood? There was > > something about the curse rebounding off Harry that caused Voldemort > to > > lose his power in the first place.>> > > > > I think I understand where Kimberly was coming from. (Correct me if > I'm wrong, Kimerbly!) She was comparing Harry as an infant to a > unicorn - both are pure and defenseless. Voldemort tried to kill > something pure and defenseless, and therefore he is alive, but at a > great price, the great price being that he is a vapor. So the curse > rebounded and hit him because he tried to kill something innocent. > > > > Rina > > > Rina, > > Thank you for being so much more clear that I managed to be! > That is just what I was trying to say! > > There's nothing in Firenze's description of what happens to those who > drink unicorn blood to say that the phenomenon would be unique to the > death of a unicorn. What he says is '...you have slain something pure > and defenseless to save yourself, and you will have but a > half-life..." > It seems to be similar to what happened to Voldemort after he tried to > curse Harry, so I thought maybe the same thing applied in the magical > world with anything pure and defenseless, like a baby. > It's kind of a stretch, but it's the first thing that stood out to me > as a possible explanation that wouldn't include something outside of > canon like Lily performing some special charm or Harry being > super-baby. I don't know if it's true, but it is one theory I've come > up with. > > I hope that makes more sense now? > kimberly I like this idea about the infant/unicorn business. However, Harry having no special abilities makes it unlikely he will be able to defend himself against, much less defeat, Voldemort in the near future (which is what must surely happen in book 7, unless JKR wants to write more or intends to have the bad guys win), except by trickery/dumb luck. And there's still the fact that he could hold off the Imperius Curse when a powerful wizard like Crouch the Elder was kept under control for months... Keith From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 19:04:05 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:04:05 -0000 Subject: More on time travel (Song of Time) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94kkj5+16i7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10318 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > General response to the Time Travel thing from the bloke writing a fanfic > about it (me :D): > > In Song of Time (Time, geddit?), I'm planning on having a sort of > "delayed-action" thing when Our Heroes (no, I'm not being more specific than > that :D) go back to the past to change time. The changes that occur are > going to happen over the period of a few hours. And that's all I'm going to > say on the matter :D > > --John > Logic and the story say that Harry will try to save his parents. But this will change the future drastically - effectively 'killing' the characters as we know them. I eagerly await further developments. Keith From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 19:07:23 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:07:23 -0000 Subject: How did Harry survive Voldemort's attack as a baby? In-Reply-To: <94ki1j+2vgu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kkpb+ivt3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10319 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "milz " wrote: > And what exactly were the Potters role during the Voldemort years? > Could Lily have been working to find charms against Avada Kedavra and > the Cruciatus Curse? If so, then maybe she charmed Harry with an > experimental anti-Aveda Kedavra charm, when they went into hiding. In > PoA, it says that the Potters knew Voldemort was after them. > > Also, about the Avada Kedavra curse, what exactly is it? In GoF, > Harry sees a green flash of light, then a rushing sound. What is > causing the rushing sound? Is it a monster or part of the cursor (I > hesitate to use the word 'soul') rushing toward the victim? If it is > part of the cursor, then that could explain how Voldemort transferred > some of himself into Harry (CoS Dumbledore). > > Milz I'd forgotten the Experimental Anti-AK Charm theory! I reckon the rushing sound is not something going into the victim, but rather their soul/spirit/life-force/whatever being torn from their body. Keith From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 19:11:32 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:11:32 -0000 Subject: (OT) From the teacher's desk... In-Reply-To: <94kbq2+3f5o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kl14+4p52@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10320 Parker wrote: > I, too, have had the same problem. I've been using British > spellings, punctuation, and grammar since I learned to read and write. However, *I* won the arguments with teachers. (I was *so* Hermione). What happens when both student and teacher are Hermione-types? :-) Heidi asked about intellectual property curricula... Allyson and Heather, are you aware if your school districts provide anything like this? I'd like to incorporate these and other ethical issues into my teaching, but time is the #1 commodity that teachers do not have nearly enough of. As a matter of fact, surveys show that most American teachers would prefer smaller class sizes (meaning more time to devote per student!) than pay raises! With more than 180 students and seven classes on my roster this school year, I know I would... Speaking of which, the recent grammar thread was very interesting. I'm not a linguist, but studying composition and rhetoric, which means I tend to emphasize the overall process of writing and style in my teaching and research rather than "nuts-and-bolts" mechanical issues. This means that my fifth grade English classes very rarely consist of writing 50 sentences, underlining the subject, then double-lining the predicate. In fact, I have given papers with no "surface level errors" grades of C or less... and I've given papers with one or two spelling mistakes As. Most UK spellings do strike my eyes as being "incorrect", but I certainly wouldn't mark a student down if they used any of them... I'd just call the UK/Amer. variance to their attention. One UK spelling that I prefer is grey--I learned my colors (colours? ;-)) via Canadian Sesame Street, so our American g-r-a-y strikes me as strange looking! When I mark up my students' English papers with Hogwarts green ink (each of the teachers on the team I lead has their own distinctive "color"), I toss in some editing marks. But most of the time, I write notes in the margins. "Read this sentence to yourself... does it make sense?" "Was this what you were trying to say? Here's my suggestion..." Or often, "Can you back up this value judgment with a quote from your reading?" I've found that kids who have challenges with grammar are often awesome abstract thinkers--and once they get over their anxiety, the spelling and grammar miraculously improves! I'm not trying to start a war here... but the biggest problem with American education is that most classrooms still use the factory model of education... and are not teaching twenty-first century children how to think. Just my not-so-humble opinion. On a side note: Teachers on list, are you subscribed to any of the HP lists for educators? If so, what did you think? --Ebony AKA AngieJ From melssa99 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 19:44:31 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:44:31 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: How did Harry survive Voldemort's attack as a baby? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10321 Keith Fraser wrote: > > What was it that allowed Harry to survive the supposedly >unstoppable > > Killing Curse and reflect it back onto the user? Milz wrote: > >In SS/PS, Mr. Ollivander tells Harry that Lily's wand was good for >charms work and James' wand was good for transfigurations. This is >probably a BIG clue. We find out in PoA that James was into >transfigurations, to the point he was an unregistered animagus. This >leaves Lily's forte. Was it charms? > I seem to remember reading somewhere about some ancient curse that Lily may have done to protect Harry from Voldemort. So it was not just her love, but a spell, which is where her handy charms work comes into play. If we knew the ancient spell, we would know how it protected Harry. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From moongirlk at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 19:46:26 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:46:26 -0000 Subject: The Good Ship H/H In-Reply-To: <94kjmp+m8ih@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kn2i+dss2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10322 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi.h.tandy.c92 at a... wrote: I want to post my husband's explanation of Why He Thinks Harry > & Hermione Don't Belong TOgether (of course, he doesn't think she > belongs with ron either, although he suspects the books will go that > way): > Harry, having had a terrible childhood, traumatic experiences > fighting evil, and likely further horrors in the future, needs > someone flashier than Hermione - not necessarily some school trollop, > but someone who is more of the arm-candy variety (although not > necessarily just another dumb blonde). > I'll see if I can get him to expand on this more later, but for > now...all of you can just tear my husband to shreds... I know I'm evil, but now that I've jumped ship and am frollicking happily in my new figurative Switzerland I can't help but be amused by every little thing, so I must ask: What about the arm-candy? Why does noone take his/her feelings into account?? kimberly, who's not usually quite so facetious, but who has just had an overload of caffeine and is feeling silly From melssa99 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 19:52:30 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:52:30 -0500 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Favorite Scene for HP Movie Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10323 I would like to see the scene where Harry, Rona, and Hermione defeat the troll in the bathroom. Harry sticking his wand up its nose, and Ron just standing there in a daze with his wand still raised. Makes me laugh out loud every time. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rlpenar at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 20:04:39 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:04:39 -0000 Subject: List of curses/spells Message-ID: <94ko4n+fc9r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10324 Does anyone know where there is a list of curses and/or spells that are used in the books?? I get them confused in my head and am still on the waiting list to read PoA and GoF (I only own the paperbacks), so I can't create my own list. I figured someone has already done this anyway, and being the lazy 20-something that I am.... From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 20:09:41 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:09:41 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" In-Reply-To: <94kio3+dcs3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10325 Flying Ford Anglia wrote: > Three hours later, FF awoke to the sound of distant screams. He was > adrift in the lifeboat, and surrounded by a ring of faces, most of > them sprouting whiskers: three hags, a House-Elf dressed in a flour- > sack and a couple of disgruntled cats. He looked over the side of > the boat. In the distance, the gigantic shape of the H/H was angled > at a dangerous slant and beginning a slow slide beneath the surface > of the ocean. He could just about make out the pregnant silhouette > of the Captain near the prow, grimly determined to go down with her > ship. Exhausted, FF fell back into the boat and soon drifted into a > half-conscious state... > > Ten hours later still, FF woke up again and all was silent, but for > the gentle cackling of the hags and the lapping of brine against > the sides of the boat. He looked around the starlit waters and felt > inner calm, but great sadness. There wasn't a ship in sight. What you forgot, Neil, is the Crazy Russian Cabin Boy standing on the prow singing the Song of Time. "Neeeeeeeeeeeear...Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar...whereeeeeeeever you aaaaaaare, I belieeeeeeve that this bomb will go oooooooo-oooo-o-offfff..." ::ducks the rotten tomatoes and stun grenades:: --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 21:20:31 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:20:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie References: <94khi2+ktg1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009201c08582$51d91dc0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10326 I wanna see a bouncing ferret!!!! ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: Kimberly To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:12 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > > Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live > up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I > would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a detail > person): I'm like you - I want to see some of the smaller things, like the first moment Harry and the Dursleys meet Hagrid (which, granted, Isn't all that small of a thing), but also... I want to see the wall opening into Diagon Alley. I want to see what they decide cauldron cakes look like. I want to see Harry's wand 'choose' him. I want to see Scabbers bite Goyle. I want to see a snuff box with whiskers. I want to see the the Fat Lady and the Gryf common room. And I really really really want to see the sorting hat, and here the whole school singing Hoggy Warty Hogwarts to different tunes. OOOH! And I want to see the giant chess game! I don't so much want to see Voldy in the back of Quirrel's head though, that sounded kinda icky. And I haven't even thought yet what I want to see from books 2, 3, 4... kimberly eGroups Sponsor Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Tue Jan 23 20:29:49 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:29:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] List of curses/spells References: <94ko4n+fc9r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004b01c0857b$3ccccbe0$2572d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10327 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Becky Penar" > Does anyone know where there is a list of curses and/or spells that > are used in the books?? I get them confused in my head and am still > on the waiting list to read PoA and GoF (I only own the paperbacks), > so I can't create my own list. I figured someone has already done > this anyway, and being the lazy 20-something that I am.... > I do believe our own Steve has a list on his Lexicon site: link: Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon carole From astrothena at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 20:43:55 2001 From: astrothena at yahoo.com (Belinda Susan Rodrigues) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:43:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Divination Lessons Message-ID: <20010123204355.85415.qmail@web12102.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10328 Found something interesting when I was checking out a book on reading tea leaves on amazon.com. According to them, people who have bought this particular book have also bought Harry Potter books. Guess I'm not the only one who developed an interest in the subject after reading PoA. Thena ===== Resident Goddess of Thena's Temple www.geocities.com/astrothena/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From vderark at bccs.org Tue Jan 23 20:56:48 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:56:48 -0000 Subject: How did Harry survive Voldemort's attack as a baby? In-Reply-To: <94jsp0+e887@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94kr6g+10rb6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10329 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote: > What was it that allowed Harry to survive the supposedly unstoppable > Killing Curse and reflect it back onto the user Just in case you're interested, there's a page about that entire incident, including the "wand order" business, the missing 24 hours, and a timeline of events, all in the Harry Potter Lexicon. Follow this path: http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Click on Time Line, then on the Time Lines menu look for: "time line of the attack by Voldemort on Harry's mystery (and that pesky wand order business)" Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 20:57:49 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:57:49 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] List of curses/spells In-Reply-To: <94ko4n+fc9r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10330 Becky Penar wrote: > Does anyone know where there is a list of curses and/or spells that > are used in the books?? I get them confused in my head and am still > on the waiting list to read PoA and GoF (I only own the paperbacks), > so I can't create my own list. I figured someone has already done > this anyway, and being the lazy 20-something that I am.... Try the Harry Potter Lexicon, http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon/ the most superlativest, wunnerfullest, gosh-golly-geeest HP resource site around. Oh, and it's maintained by list member Steve Vander Ark. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 09:07:29 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:07:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" References: <94kio3+dcs3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <010d01c085e5$18c8ed40$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10331 >Meanwhile, down below, able mechanimagus FF Anglia rolled out of his >housing in the boiler room, and with a flash of his headlamps, >transformed into a boyishly handsome human form. He made his way >to the upper decks, quickly, ignoring the panic around him, and made >a beeline for the nearest lifeboat. He sneaked under the tarpaulin, >shut his ears to the hubbub outside, and waited.. I wouldn't be too blithe about it if *I* were that Ford. He might well be sued for using his back seat to lure officers into frightful derelictions of duty ... BTW, I do hope the peace-loving herbivores made it to boats OK. (Or were they banned from the ship in the first place?) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From melssa99 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 00:00:56 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 19:00:56 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Why is your favorite your favorite? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10332 >The Marauders insulting Snape when he tries to use the map. That scene makes me laugh out loud every time. One of my favorite scenes is where Lupin and Sirius are about to kill Pettigrew together. The way Sirius yells, "Then you should have dies as we would have died for you!" I just get a very clear picture in my mind of how that scene plays out, and I get a real sense of how much friendship and loyalty mean to the characters. Lupin is a really great character, and I cannot wait to see him again in future books. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Jan 23 21:07:37 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:07:37 -0000 Subject: If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) Message-ID: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10333 If You'd Just Let Me Explain... [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The Wizard of OZ] Scene: The Shrieking Shack Present: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Scabbers, Lupin, Black, Snape and Crookshanks (SIRIUS) I was not the secret keeper, I pawned it off on Peter For which I am to blame I thought he could be trusted but instead he got me busted If you'd just let me explain. I admit I am compulsive, obsessive and impulsive, And diagnosed insane Though you think I'm a bad guy, I am innocent, not that guy If you'd just let me explain. Oh I, can tell you why, I broke Ron's leg in two and cut up his curtains with a knife, I only wanted Pettigrew I would not be just a nothin', a fugitive stud muffin, My heart all full of pain. Life would be a ding a derry, I'd be taking care of Harry If you'd just let me explain. (LUPIN) Oh, I couldn't be a lone wolf A go-it-on-your-own wolf My sanity to preserve. Led my friends to animagic Risking outcomes worse than tragic Guess we had a lot of nerve. I'm afraid there's no denyin' to Dumble I've been lyin' My job I don't deserve But I could have told the truth, all about my misspent youth, If I'd only had the nerve (SIRIUS and LUPIN) So we implore you, Snape, Don't let this dirty rat escape He's Peter Pettigrew Don't let him flee to You Know Who (SNAPE) When Neville in fine fettle, destroys another kettle, I just tear him apart. You'd be over-presumin' that I could be kind-a human If I only had a heart. If I'm tender or I'm gentle- they 'll think that I've gone mental It's better not to start It's The Kiss for Black and Lupin 'Cause these children they've been dupin' I don't buy their crazy story (SIRIUS ) And you're dyin' for some glory (LUPIN) And a Merlin decoration to deserve (SIRIUS) Then I won't get to explain... (HARRY)And I'll never get a home... (HERMIONE) If he only had a heart... (SIRIUS) A brain... (SNAPE) What nerve! (Hermione, Harry and Ron disarm Snape and knock him out) From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 23 21:15:49 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:15:49 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Star Wars.... and FICTIONAL politicians In-Reply-To: <94ckp6+tshl@eGroups.com> References: <20010120062427.3396.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010123130624.00d568b0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10334 At 06:18 PM 1/20/01 +0000, nlpnt at yahoo.com wrote: >Another thing I think of with Fudge is "Yes, Minister"; Corny seems >to combine the worst traits of Jim Hacker and Sir Humphrey. Ah! Another "Minister" fan! Fudge's attitude thus far to Voldy's return reminds me of Humphery's "Four Stage Manuover" for dealing with a dire threat. In terms of Voldy's return, it would go like this: Stage 1: We say "You-Know-Who returned? Preposterous, Dumbledore!" Stage 2: We say "Maybe the Dark Lord *has* returned, but we should do nothing about it." Stage 3: We say "Perhaps we *should* do something about the Dark Lord but there's nothing we *can* do." Stage 4: We say "Maybe there was something we *could* have done, but it's too late now." ("Avada Kedavra!", and the last of Voldy's opponents are terminated.) -- Dave From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 23 21:19:20 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:19:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Good Ship H/H Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10335 Hi: >So, who's captain of the Good Ship H/H? > >I vote for Penny. Ebony can be first mate. > >See, the reason I never jump in to the shipper debates (even though it's >pretty common knowledge where *my* loyalties lie) is because I know I don't >have to. Penny will say it all for me. :-) > >As for the Good Ship, can I be Your Cruise Director? Absolutely! You booked us the swing band already. What other activities do we have planned? Hoping Cruise Director Summers will chip in now & again, help out First Mates Ebony, Cassie, Carole, John, Alicia/Sue, Scott and anyone else I'm forgetting. Penny > >Lori > > >************************************************** >Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers > > "There are some places where the road keeps on going." > --Bud Parker > >Last movie seen: "What Women Want" >Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation >Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman >*************************************************** > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 09:26:00 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 10:26:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Good Ship H/H References: <94kn2i+dss2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013d01c085e7$b0a4bde0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10336 Kimberly wrote > I know I'm evil, but now that I've jumped ship and am frollicking > happily in my new figurative Switzerland ... Do be careful, though. The Swiss are a stern and moral race. Too much frolicking and they might extradite you after all--and I'd hate to face court martial for instigating the mutiny of a fanship. (The fact is, an able officer will never be kept marooned for long, particularly since all those PoU Group printouts could easily be recycled into a raft big enough to take on the high seas ... ) Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 21:23:53 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 13:23:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Favorite Scene for HP Movie Message-ID: <20010123212353.2701.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10337 There are many scenes that I can't wait to see, but for the first movie, my two most anticipa...well, OK, three most anticipated parts are: * When Harry firsts enters the life of a wizard; mostly when Hagrid is showing him around to get his school stuff. I get a picture from the Disney movie "Beauty and the Beast" when Belle is walking around the village and the shots down the different happenings of the town people. I imagine Harry looking awstruck at this new world that he's entered and now a part of. I even imagine it with the soundtrack music! * When Harry boards the train to Hogwarts and he meets Ron Weasley for the first time. * Snape's first appearance. From, Anake (39% obssesed) PS: Is it just me or has anyone else thought of Professor Quirrell looking like David Hyde Pierce (Niles Crane on "Frasier")? He's not English (Pierce I mean), but the image is still there. ===== ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ THE George Orwell Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thegeorgeorwellclub ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 23 21:26:29 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:26:29 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10338 Hi -- Neil! It was hilarious, but couldn't you have compared the Good Ship R/H to Titanic rather than our very own SS H/H? Penny (not so sure I want to be captain anymore if I must die with my ship .... can I be the ship owner instead & surreptiously find my way to a lifeboat?) >From: Flying Ford Anglia >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:32:35 +0000 > >On the far side of the ship, Captain Linsenmayer heard the commotion, >as people began flinging open cabin doors, shouting to each other and >generally stampeding the deck outside her cabin. >Meanwhile, down below, able mechanimagus FF Anglia rolled out of his >housing in the boiler room, and with a flash of his headlamps, >transformed into a boyishly handsome human form. He made his way >to the upper decks, quickly, ignoring the panic around him, and made >a beeline for the nearest lifeboat. He sneaked under the tarpaulin, >shut his ears to the hubbub outside, and waited. Why weren't you trying to save the ship FF??? :--) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 23 21:32:52 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:32:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Good Ship H/H Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10339 Hi -- >From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Good Ship H/H >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:48:57 +0000 > >Time for me to make my stand (and it's the kind of swaying back & >forth rolling that ships do in inclement weather) on the issue. >So I'm writing a fanfic which, if it becomes anything, will be >Draco/Hermione, and my favorite fanfics are all H/H, and out of all >the arguments for which ship makes the most sense, I have to agree >with 9 out of 10 of the H/H ones. Welcome aboard Mate! First Mate Tandy has joined us officially -- great! >Harry, having had a terrible childhood, traumatic experiences >fighting evil, and likely further horrors in the future, needs >someone flashier than Hermione - not necessarily some school trollop, >but someone who is more of the arm-candy variety (although not >necessarily just another dumb blonde). >I'll see if I can get him to expand on this more later, but for >now...all of you can just tear my husband to shreds... Nah ... Harry's not the arm-candy type. He needs someone with depth, emotional warmth & brains. Hermione in other words. Personally, I see Ron as much more the arm-candy type. :--) I told my husband recently that I was afraid he was alot like Draco. He just laughed and said, "So, Hermione married Draco after all, huh?" Penny _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 21:37:47 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:37:47 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) In-Reply-To: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10340 foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > If You'd Just Let Me Explain... > [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The > Wizard of OZ] ::snigger:: That was hilarious! Of course, you realise that I'm going to have that in my head ALL night now. Grr, Pippin ;) --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 23 21:36:52 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 15:36:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) From the teacher's desk... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10341 Hi -- >From: ebonyink at hotmail.com >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) From the teacher's desk... >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:11:32 +0000 > >Parker wrote: > > > I, too, have had the same problem. I've been using British > > spellings, punctuation, and grammar since I learned to read >and write. However, *I* won the arguments with teachers. (I was >*so* Hermione). Lucky you. I still remember bitterly contesting the loss of a 4th grade spelling bee because I spelled it "honour" instead of "honor." I insisted that both spellings were correct, but I lost the argument. Obviously, I was bitter about it since I can still remember it to this day. I guess it's because I wasn't outwardly Hermione enough. Penny _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 21:39:02 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:39:02 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Good Ship H/H In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10342 summers.65 at osu.edu wrote: > So, who's captain of the Good Ship H/H? > > I vote for Penny. Ebony can be first mate. > > See, the reason I never jump in to the shipper debates (even though it's > pretty common knowledge where *my* loyalties lie) is because I know I don't > have to. Penny will say it all for me. :-) > > As for the Good Ship, can I be Your Cruise Director? As I said earlier, I get to be the Crazy Russian Cabin Boy. As in... "Get out of the cabin, boy!" the captain roared. "I never touched him!" Master Mates said innocently. Oh dear. Schoolboy humour. Tee-hee. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Jan 23 21:44:29 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 14:44:29 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) In-Reply-To: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10343 Priceless! Why doesn't Warner Brothers hire HP4GU to produce the movies? There's enough talent here to overwhelm the "suits." I love all these song parodies, and the "Daily Prophet" news articles, and the other fictional gems occasionally posted by our creative members. Keep 'em coming! We've got a loooooong wait for Book 5... SML ************************************************ Evil Empress Note #8. No Ultimate Incantation that requires sacrifice of a Virgin is worth the trouble of : a) securing such a rarity; and b) relying on a quality that is so easily cured by an amorous Hero or Heroine in less than a minute of stolen time. ************************************************* -----Original Message----- From: foxmoth at qnet.com [mailto:foxmoth at qnet.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 2:08 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) If You'd Just Let Me Explain... [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The Wizard of OZ] Scene: The Shrieking Shack Present: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Scabbers, Lupin, Black, Snape and Crookshanks (SIRIUS) I was not the secret keeper, I pawned it off on Peter For which I am to blame I thought he could be trusted but instead he got me busted If you'd just let me explain. I admit I am compulsive, obsessive and impulsive, And diagnosed insane Though you think I'm a bad guy, I am innocent, not that guy If you'd just let me explain. Oh I, can tell you why, I broke Ron's leg in two and cut up his curtains with a knife, I only wanted Pettigrew I would not be just a nothin', a fugitive stud muffin, My heart all full of pain. Life would be a ding a derry, I'd be taking care of Harry If you'd just let me explain. (LUPIN) Oh, I couldn't be a lone wolf A go-it-on-your-own wolf My sanity to preserve. Led my friends to animagic Risking outcomes worse than tragic Guess we had a lot of nerve. I'm afraid there's no denyin' to Dumble I've been lyin' My job I don't deserve But I could have told the truth, all about my misspent youth, If I'd only had the nerve (SIRIUS and LUPIN) So we implore you, Snape, Don't let this dirty rat escape He's Peter Pettigrew Don't let him flee to You Know Who (SNAPE) When Neville in fine fettle, destroys another kettle, I just tear him apart. You'd be over-presumin' that I could be kind-a human If I only had a heart. If I'm tender or I'm gentle- they 'll think that I've gone mental It's better not to start It's The Kiss for Black and Lupin 'Cause these children they've been dupin' I don't buy their crazy story (SIRIUS ) And you're dyin' for some glory (LUPIN) And a Merlin decoration to deserve (SIRIUS) Then I won't get to explain... (HARRY)And I'll never get a home... (HERMIONE) If he only had a heart... (SIRIUS) A brain... (SNAPE) What nerve! (Hermione, Harry and Ron disarm Snape and knock him out) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 22:06:32 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:06:32 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) From the teacher's desk... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10344 >> Parker wrote: >> >>> I, too, have had the same problem. I've been using British >>> spellings, punctuation, and grammar since I learned to read >> and write. However, *I* won the arguments with teachers. (I was >> *so* Hermione). Penny wrote: > Lucky you. I still remember bitterly contesting the loss of a 4th grade > spelling bee because I spelled it "honour" instead of "honor." I insisted > that both spellings were correct, but I lost the argument. Obviously, I was > bitter about it since I can still remember it to this day. I guess > it's because I wasn't outwardly Hermione enough. I'm still bitter about my fourth-grade teacher (yes, I was still in the US education system then) taking a point off because I used "got" as a past tense instead of "gotten". I can remember being made to look through Webster's Collegiate dictionary ::spits on the ground:: until I found it, as well. It was in a Wordly Wise test...does anyone else remember those? They were great, I always got over 100% because they gave us bonus questions. I AM the male Hermione. Goodbye. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From john at walton.to Tue Jan 23 22:03:50 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:03:50 +0000 Subject: Live Dragons/Sleeping Dragons Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10345 I found out an interesting Fact today (yep, it was interesting enough to merit a Capital Letter!). I have a feeling that "Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus" (Never tickle sleeping dragons) is a direct prod at The Hobbit: in Chapter 12, there's a quote: "Never laugh at live dragons". Could (a) someone translate that into Latin and (b) someone with a Hobbit to hand (doesn't THAT sound dodgy?) provide a bit of context? A couple of quoted paragraphs would be fantastic. Cheers, --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 23 21:43:15 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:43:15 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" References: Message-ID: <001801c08585$93e24cc0$883670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10346 Penny said: > Neil! It was hilarious, but couldn't you have compared the Good Ship R/H to > Titanic rather than our very own SS H/H? > > Penny (not so sure I want to be captain anymore if I must die with my ship > .... can I be the ship owner instead & surreptiously find my way to a > lifeboat?) Well, that was the point ... I'm afraid I'm [hesitates... flinches] wavering a bit ( I think it was all that "in defence of Ron" stuff I had to read while compiling the Ron Weasley FAQ). I'm not signing up to R/H, I'm just inclined to leave the shipping lane and sit in my lifeboat. Much as I love the old H/H ship, I can see her sinking without a trace. Oh dear...what have I said? *** Don't worry, Penny, you didn't die in the story. Captain Linsenmayer was rescued in the nick of time by a passing Hippogriff and deposited on a remote desert island, where she and her child lived out their days in idyllic surroundings. The Hippogriff also rescued a solitary peace-loving goat from the ship, but dropped it en route to the island. It sank like a rock to the ocean floor, where it was rescued and genetically modified by a tribe of Merpeople. At last report, mother, baby and mergoat were all doing well. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 22:16:51 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Chris ) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:16:51 -0000 Subject: Favorite Scene for HP Movie In-Reply-To: <009201c08582$51d91dc0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <94kvsj+gq5i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10347 YEAH! *Clapping* And the twitchy look of fear that crosses Malfoy's face everytime Moody even breathes in his direction!! =O) *LOL* Chris ======================= --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise R" wrote: > I wanna see a bouncing ferret!!!! > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ~~Dee~~ > :) > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > (Poppy Brite) > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > http://www.icq.com > > For those who love to cook: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kimberly > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:12 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > > > > > Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live > > up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I > > would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a > detail > > person): > > I'm like you - I want to see some of the smaller things, like the > first moment Harry and the Dursleys meet Hagrid (which, granted, Isn't > all that small of a thing), but also... > I want to see the wall opening into Diagon Alley. > I want to see what they decide cauldron cakes look like. > I want to see Harry's wand 'choose' him. > I want to see Scabbers bite Goyle. > I want to see a snuff box with whiskers. > I want to see the the Fat Lady and the Gryf common room. > > And I really really really want to see the sorting hat, and here the > whole school singing Hoggy Warty Hogwarts to different tunes. > OOOH! And I want to see the giant chess game! > I don't so much want to see Voldy in the back of Quirrel's head > though, that sounded kinda icky. > And I haven't even thought yet what I want to see from books 2, 3, > 4... > > kimberly > > > eGroups Sponsor > > Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 23 22:21:09 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:21:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Ship Hits the Fan (long, but filled with brilliant insights) Message-ID: <200101232222.f0NMMYC16849@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10348 (I've been waiting to use that subject line for awhile now!) OK, first of all, WHERE are all the R/H-ers? At the moment, the Good Ship R/H feels more like a rowboat, with me paddling furiously to get out of the way of the wake created by the big gaudy SS H/H. Zsenya? Elizabeth? Thena? Little help, please? :) OK, Here goes: Ebony wrote: >LOL! Thanks for the compliment, Kathy! Er...yeah, compliment...that's what it was.... Ebony again: >Recent readable fanfic lately is swinging heavily R/H. Ya really think so? It does seem I haven't had to slush through as much as I used to to find good R/H (or *any* R/H, for that matter!). Actually, I guess you're right, because I haven't had to supplement my preferred diet of R/H fics with so-so H/H ones for awhile now. (I have actually become fairly picky about which fanfics I read now, which is a switch. I used to read anything and everything. Now, it has to have Hermione, Ron and/or Harry in it [in that order of preference, though I find I am preferring Ron more and more], the minute I see a "new girl" my finger's on the back button, and the font has to be legible. Maybe I'm getting old, but are some of those stories in tiny writing or what? The last thing I need at 2 am, which is when I end up reading most of it. Which is why "Hermione's 4th year" is entirely in Arial 14 point, btw). Also, of course, if someone else recommends something or it's an author I know is good (even if, alas, they are H/H). Ebony again: >And Kathy, I'll bet the R/Hers thought they were off the hook due to Penny's >carpal tunnel and the upcoming arrival of the littlest Linsenmayer. Oh, I know better than to think that H/H-ers will ever be silent. Though the "destroyer" rhetoric is starting to get a little disturbing, I must admit. I know it's all in jest, but tell me, why is it that H/H-ers seem to see themselves as missionaries of some sort? I hope you know I'm not picking on you, Ebony, or anyone in particular for that matter, but it just seems to me that the H/H crowd often manifests an almost manic to convert others. (Almost like they're trying to convince themselves of the rightness of their position...(;, sorry, couldn't resist throwing that in!). But seriously, I have corresponded with several other R/H-ers off-list who have told me they wouldn't participate in the shipper debates on this list because they perceived the H/H-ers here as being, well, let's just say too vehement. Obviously, I don't really agree, since I get into it with y'all on a regular basis :), but I can't help but notice that the R/H ranks have gotten quieter around here, even though the number of R/H-ers (at least according to the poll) hasn't gone down. Ebony again: >I can't speak from the R/H perspective at all, but I'm >sure there will be no terrible cry from the H/H battleship-cum-Carnival >Cruise if H/H is disproven (partly because one of our theories-in-progress >is "all roads lead to H/H"... but I digress). And I don't think there will be a terrible outcry from the Good Ship R/H either. We know where Hermione belongs; it's just a matter of her figuring it out. (: Ebony yet again: >I think I've become one of the most vocal around >these parts, but I don't have two horns growing out of my head. Hmm, now I have to totally rethink my image of you, Eb. And again: >I think the H/H image problem stem from the fact that we... I don't know... >we post a lot more? Gee, YA THINK? (Again, helloooooo, other R/H-ers...help?) Ebony yet again (we knew she was loquacious!): >You know, I never thought I'd agree with an R/Her on so much. Of course, >deep down I really think Kathy is an H/H Prodigal, who will eventually tire >of R/H Disorder and come on home. :-) Not a chance, my friend. It never really did it for me in the first place, and the more you try to convert me, the more I will stick to my guns with Ron-like stubbornness. Penny said: >Neil! It was hilarious, but couldn't you have compared the Good Ship R/H to >Titanic rather than our very own SS H/H? Because it was just more appropriate, I suppose . Maybe the Good Ship R/H can play the Carpathia, and arrive the next morning to pick up the survivors... Ebony again: >Many of the best H/H writers *do* deal with Ron. Just perhaps not to the >satisfaction of some. Exactly. And the very fact that it is termed "The Ron problem" should tell you why this annoys R/H-ers so greatly. All that said, I REALLY liked Penny's idea of the various ships as party liners sailing along the HP waters. I have been thinking about the Good Ship R/H: It's large and looks fairly rickety from the outside, but it's held up by magic and is much more sturdy than some might think. It has chess sets throughout and small explosions are considered a matter of course. It also has a large closet full of shoes so Ron can demonstrate his shoe-tying technique (if you don't get it, go read B Bennett's newest fic). Oh, and we never serve Corned Beef on the Good Ship R/H. You know, it occurs to me that part of the problem for us R/Hers is that we don't have an Uber-fic the way H/Hers have PoU and DD/DS. (OH wait, there is that one by Joanne something...though she's not very timely about getting the parts out...) There was a whole bunch more I wanted to say, but I'm tired of babbling and I'm sure you guys are tired of me babbling too! So, all are welcome to the Good (Rowboat) R/H--we can build on additions and the magic'll hold it up! Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Tue Jan 23 22:21:41 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 23 Jan 2001 14:21:41 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron in fanfic land Message-ID: <20010123222141.16014.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10349 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From allyson at ptd.net Tue Jan 23 22:22:36 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:22:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) References: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <02ee01c0858b$181a50a0$ad04bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10350 This was the best!!!! I loved it!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: foxmoth at qnet.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 4:07 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) If You'd Just Let Me Explain... [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The Wizard of OZ] Scene: The Shrieking Shack Present: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Scabbers, Lupin, Black, Snape and Crookshanks (SIRIUS) I was not the secret keeper, I pawned it off on Peter For which I am to blame I thought he could be trusted but instead he got me busted If you'd just let me explain. I admit I am compulsive, obsessive and impulsive, And diagnosed insane Though you think I'm a bad guy, I am innocent, not that guy If you'd just let me explain. Oh I, can tell you why, I broke Ron's leg in two and cut up his curtains with a knife, I only wanted Pettigrew I would not be just a nothin', a fugitive stud muffin, My heart all full of pain. Life would be a ding a derry, I'd be taking care of Harry If you'd just let me explain. (LUPIN) Oh, I couldn't be a lone wolf A go-it-on-your-own wolf My sanity to preserve. Led my friends to animagic Risking outcomes worse than tragic Guess we had a lot of nerve. I'm afraid there's no denyin' to Dumble I've been lyin' My job I don't deserve But I could have told the truth, all about my misspent youth, If I'd only had the nerve (SIRIUS and LUPIN) So we implore you, Snape, Don't let this dirty rat escape He's Peter Pettigrew Don't let him flee to You Know Who (SNAPE) When Neville in fine fettle, destroys another kettle, I just tear him apart. You'd be over-presumin' that I could be kind-a human If I only had a heart. If I'm tender or I'm gentle- they 'll think that I've gone mental It's better not to start It's The Kiss for Black and Lupin 'Cause these children they've been dupin' I don't buy their crazy story (SIRIUS ) And you're dyin' for some glory (LUPIN) And a Merlin decoration to deserve (SIRIUS) Then I won't get to explain... (HARRY)And I'll never get a home... (HERMIONE) If he only had a heart... (SIRIUS) A brain... (SNAPE) What nerve! (Hermione, Harry and Ron disarm Snape and knock him out) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 22:20:56 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:20:56 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94kkd8+r593@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94l048+2gq8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10351 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote: > > I like this idea about the infant/unicorn business. However, Harry > having no special abilities makes it unlikely he will be able to > defend himself against, much less defeat, Voldemort in the near > future (which is what must surely happen in book 7, unless JKR wants > to write more or intends to have the bad guys win), except by > trickery/dumb luck. And there's still the fact that he could hold off > the Imperius Curse when a powerful wizard like Crouch the Elder was > kept under control for months... Ah, but, you're forgetting, Harry gained some ability from V during the attack; parseltongue we know about, there could be others. It's possible the extra talent he has displayed stems from this, in which case it's quite possible he was just a random innocent babe when V attacked. The infant/unicorn theory could hold true and the actual attack itself provide the abilities Harry needs to defeat V. Also, from what we know of centaurs it is entirely possible that the infant/unicorn theory is exactly what Firenze was refering to. It's entirely in keeping with what we know about centaurs temperament. They say one thing, they mean another. It seemed that Firenze was reffering to V/quirrel drinking unicorn blood but was at the same time hinting about the events of Hallowe'en 1981. It strikes me that this is exactly the kind of clue JKR would drop in to surprise us with later. Dai From drmm at fuuko.com Tue Jan 23 22:32:41 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:32:41 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10352 I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which character would you be," quizzes. # 1 Severus Snape # 2 Draco Malfoy # 3 Ron Weasley # 4 Voldemort # 5 Hermione Granger Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering the fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't terribly surprise me. I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" question to weed him out of peoples results. I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters traits, which this proves I think :) DrMM From wr7238 at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 23 22:43:56 2001 From: wr7238 at worldnet.att.net (Roy Mallett Jr) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:43:56 -0500 Subject: Censors t trying to ban HP books Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10353 This was very interesting to read from Susan McGee. I am with you in getting upset with these groups! I love this books and my boys love them too. I guess it takes all kinds in this world but why do they pick on all the great stuff? History shows us that instead of going after the really hateful things in this world they take away things that will help kids get together and forget all racial differences. These books are for everyone and they bring people together even us old people! They probably tried to ban The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Will keep checking my e-mails for updates on this subject. Keep the faith with Harry Potter will write soon. Wanda The Witch of Revere, Ma. From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 23:45:20 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:45:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie References: <94kvsj+gq5i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00c001c08596$8ca9c9e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10354 There was no scene in any of the four books that made me laugh as hard as I did when I read those immortal words, "bouncing....ferret". It was perfect! I chortled and giggled myself silly for fifteen minutes, had to put the book down, wander out of the bedroom and get a glass of water to calm the hiccups, and then come back and pick up reading again! ______________________________________________ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com To get help with your VtM roleplaying, check out this neat club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/vtmstorytellersclub ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris " To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 4:16 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie YEAH! *Clapping* And the twitchy look of fear that crosses Malfoy's face everytime Moody even breathes in his direction!! =O) *LOL* Chris ======================= --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise R" wrote: > I wanna see a bouncing ferret!!!! > ______________________________________________ > > > ~~Dee~~ > :) > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > (Poppy Brite) > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > http://www.icq.com > > For those who love to cook: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale > ______________________________________________ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kimberly > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:12 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > > > > > Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live > > up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I > > would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a > detail > > person): > > I'm like you - I want to see some of the smaller things, like the > first moment Harry and the Dursleys meet Hagrid (which, granted, Isn't > all that small of a thing), but also... > I want to see the wall opening into Diagon Alley. > I want to see what they decide cauldron cakes look like. > I want to see Harry's wand 'choose' him. > I want to see Scabbers bite Goyle. > I want to see a snuff box with whiskers. > I want to see the the Fat Lady and the Gryf common room. > > And I really really really want to see the sorting hat, and here the > whole school singing Hoggy Warty Hogwarts to different tunes. > OOOH! And I want to see the giant chess game! > I don't so much want to see Voldy in the back of Quirrel's head > though, that sounded kinda icky. > And I haven't even thought yet what I want to see from books 2, 3, > 4... > > kimberly > > > eGroups Sponsor > > Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 23 22:53:10 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:53:10 -0000 Subject: (OT) School work and books (Stephen Fry) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10355 John wrote: "I always got over 100% because they gave us bonus questions. I AM the male Hermione. Goodbye." LOL at the end. Saying about getting over 100% reminded me about two lots of coursework I did for GCSE. In geography I got over 100% - the marks for the work came to 100% and then on top of this was added the SPAG (spelling punctuation and grammar marks) which came to 5% (?). Meaning that you could get 105% (guess you all really needed me to do the complicated mathematics for you!). In history we did two possible sets of coursework and then submitted the best (well you didn't have to but that seemed the sensible option). For most people this was an easy decision to make, but, having to be different, I scored exactly the same on both. So John is the Male Hermione. Goodbye. Heidi wrote: "If anyone wants to read a wonderful book that discusses the problems with changing history, I highly recommend a novel by Stephen Fry (yes, THAT Stephen Fry) called MAKING HISTORY " I just put in an order in for it. I read The Stars' Tennis Balls (also S. Fry) a couple of weeks ago and really enjoyed it. For those in the UK - BOL (http://www.uk.bol.com/) are selling the hardback version of it at the greatly reduced price of 2 (under page three of the Acclaimed Hardbacks at 4 section). Interesting that they cannot tell the difference between 2 and 4 - but I am not going to complain. Postage is 2.95 - for up to 10 books (UK delivery). Simon From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 23 23:49:47 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:49:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) References: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> <02ee01c0858b$181a50a0$ad04bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <00ca01c08597$2bc599a0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10356 a fugitive stud muffin LOL!!!!!!!!!!! ______________________________________________ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com To get help with your VtM roleplaying, check out this neat club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/vtmstorytellersclub ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allyson" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) > This was the best!!!! I loved it!!!!!!!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: foxmoth at qnet.com > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 4:07 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) > > > If You'd Just Let Me Explain... > [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The > Wizard of OZ] > > Scene: The Shrieking Shack > Present: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Scabbers, Lupin, Black, Snape and > Crookshanks > > (SIRIUS) > I was not the secret keeper, I pawned it off on Peter > For which I am to blame > I thought he could be trusted but instead he got me busted > If you'd just let me explain. > I admit I am compulsive, obsessive and impulsive, > And diagnosed insane > Though you think I'm a bad guy, I am innocent, not that guy > If you'd just let me explain. > > Oh I, can tell you why, I broke Ron's leg in two > and cut up his curtains with a knife, I only wanted > Pettigrew > I would not be just a nothin', a fugitive stud muffin, > My heart all full of pain. > Life would be a ding a derry, I'd be taking care of Harry > If you'd just let me explain. > > (LUPIN) > Oh, I couldn't be a lone wolf > A go-it-on-your-own wolf > My sanity to preserve. > Led my friends to animagic > Risking outcomes worse than tragic > Guess we had a lot of nerve. > I'm afraid there's no denyin' to Dumble I've been lyin' > My job I don't deserve > But I could have told the truth, all about my misspent youth, > If I'd only had the nerve > > (SIRIUS and LUPIN) > So we implore you, Snape, > Don't let this dirty rat escape > He's Peter Pettigrew > Don't let him flee to You Know Who > > > (SNAPE) > When Neville in fine fettle, destroys another kettle, > I just tear him apart. > You'd be over-presumin' that I could be kind-a human > If I only had a heart. > If I'm tender or I'm gentle- they 'll think that I've gone mental > It's better not to start > It's The Kiss for Black and Lupin > 'Cause these children they've been dupin' > I don't buy their crazy story > (SIRIUS ) > And you're dyin' for some glory > (LUPIN) > And a Merlin decoration to deserve > > (SIRIUS) Then I won't get to explain... > (HARRY)And I'll never get a home... > (HERMIONE) If he only had a heart... > (SIRIUS) A brain... > (SNAPE) What nerve! > > (Hermione, Harry and Ron disarm Snape and knock him out) > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From eccleston at clara.co.uk Tue Jan 23 22:55:45 2001 From: eccleston at clara.co.uk (eccleston at clara.co.uk) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:55:45 -0000 Subject: How did Harry survive Voldemort's attack as a baby? In-Reply-To: <94kr6g+10rb6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94l25h+10b32@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10357 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" > wrote: > > What was it that allowed Harry to survive the supposedly > unstoppable > > Killing Curse and reflect it back onto the user > > Just in case you're interested, there's a page about that entire > incident, including the "wand order" business, the missing 24 hours, > and a timeline of events, all in the Harry Potter Lexicon. Follow > this path: > > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon > > Click on Time Line, then on the Time Lines menu look for: > "time line of the attack by Voldemort on Harry's mystery (and that > pesky wand order business)" > > Steve Vander Ark > The Harry Potter Lexicon > http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon I'm a bit of a novice at this, and I haven't had time to look at all the threads in his question, but my simplistic reading was that Lilly was prepared to sacrifice her self for Harry and this was an "old magic" that Voldermort could not overcome. In terms, a mothers selfless love saved Harry From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 23 22:57:54 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 16:57:54 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) Message-ID: <00ee01c0858f$ec0a7620$27479cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10358 Kimberly wrote: <> I think it makes perfect sense. I know that Harry has some big powers, but Voldemort *was able to curse him in the end of book 4. So whatever saved him from being killed then is gone now, and I think it goes beyond Lily's love and protection. Plus, I think it sounds like something JKR would do, giving a hint for future explanations. Rina giggling at the thought of Harry "Super Baby" Potter ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Tue Jan 23 23:03:29 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 23 Jan 2001 15:03:29 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Fanfic tangent Message-ID: <20010123230329.24382.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10359 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 23 23:02:47 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:02:47 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <010a01c08590$9ae5a520$27479cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10360 That was fun. LOL My top five are Hermione, Percy, Dumbledore, Neville, and Ron. I'm not entirely sure if that's good or bad... Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Tue Jan 23 23:09:06 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:09:06 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Ship Hits the Fan (long, but filled with brilliant in... Message-ID: <8e.10306d0b.279f6912@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10361 In a message dated 1/23/2001 4:47:29 PM Central Standard Time, kathleen at carr.org writes: > OK, first of all, WHERE are all the R/H-ers? At the moment, the Good Ship > R/H > feels more like a rowboat, with me paddling furiously to get out of the way > of > the wake created by the big gaudy SS H/H. Zsenya? Elizabeth? Thena? > Little > help, please? :) > > I don't think I was ever able to climb aboard the good ship R/H. I've been floundering around in the dark and stormy Bay of Bachelorhood! Much as we love you *All*, Harry and I have hijacked the Malfoy yacht and headed off for the calm waters of the Intensive Margarita and Sunbathing Therapy Sea ... We'll send you lots of postcards. We promise! Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 11:33:55 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:33:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Live Dragons/Sleeping Dragons References: Message-ID: <018101c085f9$8e9eda20$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10362 The Cabin Boy requested, > Could (a) someone translate that into Latin and (b) someone with a Hobbit to > hand (doesn't THAT sound dodgy?) provide a bit of context? A couple of > quoted paragraphs would be fantastic. I'll take a pass on the translation, but I can give you the context. Bilbo, having paid a visit to Smaug wearing his magic ring, has managed to carry off a fairly successful conversation. Feeling clever, he says, "Well, I really must not detain your Magnificence any longer,"he said, "or keep you from much needed rest. Ponies take some catching, I believe, after a long start. And so do burglars," he added as a parting shot, as he darted back and fled up the tunnel. [Smaug takes objection to the remark and very nearly manages to barbeque the fleeing hobbit.] "Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favorite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb. "You aren't nearly through this adventure yet," he added, and that was pretty true as well. Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Tue Jan 23 23:21:08 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:21:08 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <13.107d528d.279f6be4@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10363 Bill Weasley? I'm Bill Weasley???? I can't have answered these correctly! At least I'm in the right family for my hair color! # 1 Bill Weasley # 2 Ron Weasley # 3 Draco Malfoy # 4 Voldemort # 5 Charlie Weasley # 6 Fred/George Weasley # 7 Severus Snape # 8 Albus Dumbledore # 9 Harry Potter # 10 Hermione Granger # 11 Remus Lupin # 12 Rubeus Hagrid # 13 Sirius Black # 14 Minerva McGonagall # 15 Neville Longbottom # 16 Percy Weasley Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From allyson at ptd.net Tue Jan 23 23:40:37 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:40:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005501c08595$e5b8f8e0$ad04bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10365 # 1 Ron Weasley # 2 Harry Potter # 3 Severus Snape # 4 Hermione Granger # 5 Remus Lupin My results!!! I was a little surprised by the Ron Weasley winning result, but hey.......he's not so bad, now is he! ----- Original Message ----- From: drmm at fuuko.com To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 5:32 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which character would you be," quizzes. # 1 Severus Snape # 2 Draco Malfoy # 3 Ron Weasley # 4 Voldemort # 5 Hermione Granger Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering the fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't terribly surprise me. I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" question to weed him out of peoples results. I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters traits, which this proves I think :) DrMM To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From dir.crl at attcanada.ca Tue Jan 23 23:50:02 2001 From: dir.crl at attcanada.ca (dir.crl at attcanada.ca) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:50:02 -0000 Subject: Live Dragons/Sleeping Dragons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94l5ba+p9hh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10366 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > I found out an interesting Fact today (yep, it was interesting enough to > merit a Capital Letter!). I have a feeling that "Draco Dormiens Nunquam > Titillandus" (Never tickle sleeping dragons) is a direct prod at The Hobbit: > in Chapter 12, there's a quote: > > "Never laugh at live dragons". > > Could (a) someone translate that into Latin and (b) someone with a Hobbit to > hand (doesn't THAT sound dodgy?) provide a bit of context? A couple of > quoted paragraphs would be fantastic. > > Cheers, > > --John > == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == > > John Walton john at w... > > "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as > distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." > --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 > > == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 00:00:18 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Chris ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:00:18 -0000 Subject: Favorite Scene for HP Movie In-Reply-To: <00c001c08596$8ca9c9e0$b7e2fea9@computer> Message-ID: <94l5ui+4qka@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10367 Tell me about it! My husband and I were reading (He was on CoS at the time) and laughed out loud and then couldn't stop! As I was wiping the tears from my eyes, my husband kept going "What?" "What?". I had looked at him and with my voice wobbling from the laughter, I said "Justice!" He frowned at me and so I said "You are just going to have to wait until you get here." And laughed even harder as he rolled his eyes to the ceiling! Yup! That's my all time favorite scene! B I G! B I G! O N O N *LOL* Christy "...I want to fix that in my memory forever...": Ron, GoF p.207 ============================================== --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise R" wrote: > There was no scene in any of the four books that made me laugh as hard as I > did when I read those immortal words, "bouncing....ferret". > > It was perfect! I chortled and giggled myself silly for fifteen minutes, > had to put the book down, wander out of the bedroom and get a glass of water > to calm the hiccups, and then come back and pick up reading again! > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ~~Dee~~ > :) > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > (Poppy Brite) > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > http://www.icq.com > To get help with your VtM roleplaying, check out this neat club: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/vtmstorytellersclub > ______________________________________________ > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris " > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 4:16 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie > > > YEAH! *Clapping* And the twitchy look of fear that crosses Malfoy's > face everytime Moody even breathes in his direction!! > =O) *LOL* > Chris > ======================= > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise R" wrote: > > I wanna see a bouncing ferret!!!! > > ______________________________________________ > > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > > ~~Dee~~ > > :) > > > > "Night is the hardest time to be alive. > > It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." > > (Poppy Brite) > > > > Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 > > http://www.icq.com > > > > For those who love to cook: > > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale > > ______________________________________________ > > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > > ?????????????????????????????????????????????? > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Kimberly > > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 12:12 PM > > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie > > > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" > wrote: > > > > > > > > Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could > live > > > up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What > I > > > would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a > > detail > > > person): > > > > I'm like you - I want to see some of the smaller things, like the > > first moment Harry and the Dursleys meet Hagrid (which, granted, > Isn't > > all that small of a thing), but also... > > I want to see the wall opening into Diagon Alley. > > I want to see what they decide cauldron cakes look like. > > I want to see Harry's wand 'choose' him. > > I want to see Scabbers bite Goyle. > > I want to see a snuff box with whiskers. > > I want to see the the Fat Lady and the Gryf common room. > > > > And I really really really want to see the sorting hat, and here > the > > whole school singing Hoggy Warty Hogwarts to different tunes. > > OOOH! And I want to see the giant chess game! > > I don't so much want to see Voldy in the back of Quirrel's head > > though, that sounded kinda icky. > > And I haven't even thought yet what I want to see from books 2, > 3, > > 4... > > > > kimberly > > > > > > eGroups Sponsor > > > > Get 3 CDs for ONLY $9.99! > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Wed Jan 24 00:09:01 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:09:01 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> <005501c08595$e5b8f8e0$ad04bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <03d601c08599$db6fc680$3261063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 10368 Your Results The list below is in an order based on your preferences. Note: The named selector author alone determined the questions and scoring of these results. Modify Results To modify your previous choices use the browser back button. Your Opinion Express your opinion of this selector and related topics on our discussion board. < Visits to SelectSmart/FREE results pages since 10/25/00 FastCounter by bCentral Rank #1 equals your best match Item Your Results Page # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Bill Weasley # 3 Percy Weasley # 4 Ron Weasley # 5 Albus Dumbledore # 6 Harry Potter # 7 Charlie Weasley # 8 Fred/George Weasley # 9 Draco Malfoy # 10 Neville Longbottom That's the top ten of characters that I got. I do like Hermione but I think I'd rather be a Weasley !! Michelle From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 24 00:12:09 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:12:09 -0000 Subject: Live Dragons/Sleeping Dragons In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94l6kq+vias@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10369 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > I found out an interesting Fact today (yep, it was interesting enough to > merit a Capital Letter!). I have a feeling that "Draco Dormiens Nunquam > Titillandus" (Never tickle sleeping dragons) is a direct prod at The Hobbit: > in Chapter 12, there's a quote: > > "Never laugh at live dragons". > > Could (a) someone translate that into Latin and Dracones vivi nunquam ridendus (b) someone with a Hobbit to > hand (doesn't THAT sound dodgy?) provide a bit of context? A couple of > quoted paragraphs would be fantastic. [Bilbo Baggins, having penetrated Smaug's lair with the aid of a magic ring which makes him invisible, has just discovered that the dragon has a flaw in his armor] After he had seen that Mr. Baggins' one idea was to get away. "Well, I really must not detain Your Magnificence any longer," he said, "or keep you from much needed rest. Ponies take some catching, I believe, after a long start. And so do burglars," he added as a parting shot, as he darted back and fled up the tunnel. It was an unfortunate remark, for the dragon spouted terrific flames after him, and fast though he sped up the slope, he had not gone nearly far enough to be comfortable before the ghastly head of Smaug was thrust against the opening behind. Luckily the whole head andjaws could not squeeze in, but the nostrils sent forth fire and vapour to pursue him, and he was nearly overcome, and stumbled blindly on in great pain and fear. He had been feeling rather pleased with the cleverness of his conversation with Smaug, but his mistake at the end shook him into better sense. "Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo, you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb. "You aren't nearly through this adventure yet," he added, and that was pretty true as well. J.R.R. Tolkien -- The Hobbit IMO the Hogwart's Library boasts a copy of the The Red Book of Westmarch Pippin From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 00:18:44 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Chris ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:18:44 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <005501c08595$e5b8f8e0$ad04bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94l714+5edj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10370 Thank you for letting us know! I was kinda curious myself! I am not surprised with my first : Hermione But the next ones: 2. Dumbledore 3. McGonagall 4. Remus 5. Hagrid Those, especially Hagrid, threw me for a loop! I guess my love for animals peeked through! ============================ --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: > # 1 Ron Weasley > # 2 Harry Potter > # 3 Severus Snape > # 4 Hermione Granger > # 5 Remus Lupin > > > My results!!! I was a little surprised by the Ron Weasley winning result, but hey.......he's not so bad, now is he! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: drmm at f... > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 5:32 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . > > > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. > > # 1 Severus Snape > # 2 Draco Malfoy > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Voldemort > # 5 Hermione Granger > > Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering the > fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't terribly > surprise me. > > I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author > needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" question to > weed him out of peoples results. > > I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters > traits, which this proves I think :) > > DrMM > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 00:27:19 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:27:19 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10371 Here's my character quiz result: # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Minerva McGonagall # 3 Percy Weasley # 4 Remus Lupin # 5 Albus Dumbledore # 6 Bill Weasley # 7 Charlie Weasley # 8 Harry Potter # 9 Ron Weasley # 10 Rubeus Hagrid # 11 Severus Snape # 12 Neville Longbottom # 13 Draco Malfoy # 14 Fred/George Weasley # 15 Voldemort # 16 Sirius Black No surprises... I've said that in real life I'm a combination between Granger, McGonagall, and Humongous Bighead. ;-) It would be *very* interesting to see what this reveals about the denizens of the shipping seas and the no-ship "land lubbers". However, if I am Percy-ish, you'd think I'd like the threads that remind me rather of his cauldron bottom reports. --Ebony AKA AngieJ (highly amused that Sirius is in last place and not Voldemort) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com Wed Jan 24 00:11:32 2001 From: hermionegranger.gryffindor at juno.com (Sara Metz) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:11:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <20010123.181133.-488439.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10372 My top seven characters (why seven? it's a fun number). I wasn't surprised at getting Hermione, since I really am Hermione (I've read War and Peace, Atlas Shrugged, and Anna Karenin for fun. Yeah, I'm definitely Hermione.) I can also get why I got Percy, Dumbledore and McGonangall. Why Draco and Charlie scored up that high, I have no clue. # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Charlie Weasley # 3 Percy Weasley # 4 Albus Dumbledore # 5 Minerva McGonagall # 6 Draco Malfoy # 7 Harry Potter BTW, has anyone tried the Hogwarts House Sorter at: http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat? I'm Gryffindor followed by Hufflepuff. It'll be interesting to see if everybody gets into the house they want to get into. Sara Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus Proud of my 104% Harry Potter Obsession Rating > ----- Original Message ----- > From: drmm at fuuko.com > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 5:32 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . > > > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. > > # 1 Severus Snape > # 2 Draco Malfoy > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Voldemort > # 5 Hermione Granger > > Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering > the > fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't > terribly > surprise me. > > I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author > needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" question > to > weed him out of peoples results. > > I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters > traits, which this proves I think :) > > DrMM ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Jan 24 00:29:30 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:29:30 -0000 Subject: help... Message-ID: <94l7la+f1m5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10373 I'm sorry. I have lent out ALL my HP books and I was trying to find a description of the clock in the Weasleys' kitchen...the one that says where the family members are; "dead", "traveling," "peril," etc. Um, might anyone know what book that's in, and let me know how it's described? Cassie From allyson at ptd.net Wed Jan 24 00:34:42 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 19:34:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (unknown) References: <94l4bs+iuag@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00e501c0859d$740de040$ad04bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10374 >>The Dursleys are ignorant with fear so you SORT OF pity them in a little way. In a sense, yes, however, the more I read and re-read the books, I am forced to wonder exactly why the Dursleys are the way they are. I think we are going to find out that the Dursleys have more to do with 'magic' than they let on. Part of me wonders if they had something to do with the fatal attack on Lily and James. I am not so sure they are 'ignorant with fear' or just plain guilt ridden at what they have, in part, helped to create. The only thing I think they truly fear is the big V. I wonder if they were in cahoots at one point in time with him or his co-horts and now, the "fear" of magic actually translates into a fear of the big V seeking them out. I don't know....maybe I am rambling! ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] (unknown) Aloha all! (I apologize in advance if this has been already done and it's one that I missed. I blame my newbee-ness! <=o)) I've been through much of the posts here and I was curious..... I've noticed the two catagories - most liked characters and most feared. What about the most hated? Who do you detest the most and why? As I read through each book, I found the ones that I love, feared, disliked, etc. I thought that I hated the Dursleys for their treatment of HP. I thought that I hated Draco for being such a nasty brat. Until Rita Skeeter came along! Now I dislike the Dursleys and Draco but hate RS! The Dursleys are ignorant with fear so you SORT OF pity them in a little way. Draco has evil parents so you can kind of see how upbringing can influence him and give him a LITTLE slack. But at least they are up front with their nastiness! Rita Skeeter will give her kissy kissy face just before she kicks you in the *bleep*! She is a backstabbing, two-faced, malicious *ahem*! Even Voldy is up front with his evil self. No pretense. No twisting things around. He will kill you! Yes, scary (okay, VERY SCARY) but you can prepare yourself for it and maybe even defend yourself like Harry did. Even for all his badness, he united many people against him. Rita divided friends and family and made them doubt eachother. She did more damage the people's morale that anyone else the all four books. I mean, jeez, even Mrs. Weasley doubted Hermione! (yes, yes, I know there was doubt among the students during CoS but those are different circumstances). I whooped with joy when Hermione caught her in a jar! I am still disappointed that she was going to release RS in London. I would've wanted to drop her off at Azkaban, Attention: Dementors, and let them play with HER mind before they give her the kissy face! I know, not very mature. At least I would've pulled a Percy and handed her over to the proper authorities and let them handle her situation in accordance to the governing laws. So of all the characters, which do you hate the most and why? Have a great day! Christy To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 00:40:51 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:40:51 Subject: "I see no ships!" and Swift analogy Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10375 Penny wrote: > > > Neil! It was hilarious, but couldn't you have compared the Good Ship >R/H to Titanic rather than our very own SS H/H? > > Penny (not so sure I want to be captain anymore if I must die with my >ship .... can I be the ship owner instead & surreptiously find my way to a >lifeboat?) Neil replied: > >Well, that was the point ... I'm afraid I'm [hesitates... flinches] >wavering a bit ( I think it was all that "in defence of Ron" stuff I had to >read while compiling the Ron Weasley FAQ). I'm not signing up to R/H, I'm >just inclined to leave the shipping lane and sit in my lifeboat. Much as I >love the old H/H ship, I can see her sinking without a trace. Oh >dear...what have I said? LOL on this story and all the responses! I think it's the first "no-shipper" fanfic I've read and enjoyed. I *howled* at John's Celine Dion imitation... what a cabin boy! So who's our John Jacob Astor? Our Unsinkable Molly Brown? If this were the movie version of events, who are Rose and Jack? As Rina said, this isn't all that serious. It's really a Lilliputian war. Some of us are Big-Endians, some of us aren't. And the no-shippers are Gulliver, I suppose... though it takes him an awful long time to travel, doesn't it? ;-) As for the first mate stuff, I think I'll leave that to the heavyweights. Penny as Captain, Lori as Cruise Director, John as the Incredible Singing Russian Cabin Boy, lots of worthy first mates... my, what a vessel. I like being a recruiter myself. ;-) --Ebony (who is *thrilled* to see that we've picked up Heidi somewhere along the way) <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From drmm at fuuko.com Wed Jan 24 00:40:11 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:40:11 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" & Ron commentary Message-ID: <94l89b+cbaa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10376 Neil wrote: <> I would just like to say, I'm glad that my "In Defense of Ron" posts (ages and ages ago) made at least a few people understand Ron a bit more. And now I'm going to give you something else to add to this FAQ ;) And as long as I'm talking about Ron, I would like to propose that the fight between Harry & Ron in GoF is actually the *best* thing that could have happened to Ron. One of the things that people seem to have a problem with when talking about Ron is he gets upset over rather trivial things. In a way, this is what got him upset in GoF. I'm positive he really believed Harry in his heart but, at that point in time, his jealousy overcame this and he simply refused to speak to him. However, I think his reaction after the first test with the dragons proves that he's learned from the experience. "Harry," he said, very seriously, "whoever put your name in that goblet -- I -- I reckon they're trying to do you in!" Basically, this has helped Ron learn that there are some things that aren't worth getting upset with -- that friendship is far more important. And I can honestly say, if Ron has started learning that at the age of 14 I think he's doing quite well for his age. It's something some of us still struggle with ;) Hummm, maybe one of these days I should write a long post on the parallels I see between Ron and his father and Hermione & Mrs. Weasley and how that can help the R/H 'ship along . . . But I'm lazy at the moment :) DrMM (who pondered writing an addition to that 'ficlit' where the H/H'ers gathered around saying "Don't panic . . . we have a backup ship called fanfic we can get on now that the real ship is sinking . . . " ;) ) From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 24 00:50:26 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:50:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <013701c0859f$aa232c60$27479cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10377 Sara wrote: <> I'm Hufflepuff. I tried again, and after a few times, made it into Ravenclaw. LOL Gryffindor was always 3rd and Slytherin 4th. These tests are sure piling on the nerd quotient, huh? LOL Rina back to studying ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 01:01:04 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle Centeno) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:01:04 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94l9gg+jkch@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10378 Mine is quite bizarre, actually, here it is. A question, though: Am I the only whose computer decided not to show question number 15? # 1 Harry Potter # 2 Ron Weasley # 3 Hermione Granger # 4 Voldemort # 5 Albus Dumbledore # 6 Draco Malfoy # 7 Remus Lupin # 8 Severus Snape # 9 Charlie Weasley # 10 Fred/George Weasley # 11 Minerva McGonagall # 12 Percy Weasley # 13 Rubeus Hagrid # 14 Sirius Black # 15 Bill Weasley # 16 Neville Longbottom I'm also trying to figure out the Voldemort thing. But look! Draco Malfoy, number 6! Yay! In the top ten! --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, drmm at f... wrote: > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. > > # 1 Severus Snape > # 2 Draco Malfoy > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Voldemort > # 5 Hermione Granger > > Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering the > fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't terribly > surprise me. > > I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author > needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" question to > weed him out of peoples results. > > I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters > traits, which this proves I think :) > > DrMM From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 24 01:20:17 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:20:17 -0000 Subject: help... In-Reply-To: <94l7la+f1m5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lakh+ails@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10380 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" < cassandraclaire at m...> wrote: > > > I'm sorry. I have lent out ALL my HP books and I was trying to find a > description of the clock in the Weasleys' kitchen...the one that says > where the family members are; "dead", "traveling," "peril," etc. Um, > might anyone know what book that's in, and let me know how it's > described? > > Cassie Actually Cassie, I think there are *two* clocks. There is a grandfather clock in a corner of the living room, GoF 151 ch. 10. "It was completely useless if you wanted to know the time,but otherwise very informative. It had nine golden hands, and each of them was engraved with one of the Weasley family's names. There were no numerals around the face, but descriptions of where each family member might be. "Home," "school," and "work" were there, but there was also "traveling,""lost,""hospital," "prison," and, in the position where the number twelve would be on a normal clock,"mortal peril." Then there is *another* clock in the kitchen: CoS ch. 3 page 34 US hardcover. The clock on the wall opposite him had only one hand and no numbers at all. Written around the edge were things like Time to make tea, Time to feed the chickens, and You're late. Hope this helps. Pippin From malinaschick at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 01:08:50 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:08:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Weasley member... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10381 Elizabeth wrote: <> But Elizabeth, if I'm *part* of the Weasley clan then how can I *marry into* the Weasley clan like I've always planned to? @~~~ Steph "I didn't get to shake my tummy like a bowl full of jelly!" -Chandler _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 24 01:14:20 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:14:20 -0700 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10382 Hey, I'm Dumbledore! I thought I'd be Remus Lupin first -- guess I'm not "foxy"... err..."wolfie" enough... Can't figure out why they stuck Bill and Charlie Weasley in there, because we know less about their personalities than we know about Ginny. Speaking of whom.... Why isn't poor Ginny on this list? Where's Arthur & Molly? Where's the Dursleys? # 1 Albus Dumbledore # 2 Charlie Weasley # 3 Remus Lupin # 4 Hermione Granger # 5 Percy Weasley # 6 Bill Weasley # 7 Minerva McGonagall # 8 Neville Longbottom # 9 Harry Potter #10 Fred/George Weasley #11 Rubeus Hagrid #12 Ron Weasley #13 Sirius Black #14 Draco Malfoy #15 Severus Snape #16 Voldemort From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 01:23:10 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle Centeno) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:23:10 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" and Swift analogy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94lapu+j5uq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10383 Where do I sign up for this H/H ship? *yes I DO know it's a metaphor* Isabelle --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony Elizabeth Thomas" wrote: > Penny wrote: > > > > > Neil! It was hilarious, but couldn't you have compared the Good Ship > >R/H to Titanic rather than our very own SS H/H? > > > > Penny (not so sure I want to be captain anymore if I must die with my > >ship .... can I be the ship owner instead & surreptiously find my way to a > >lifeboat?) > > Neil replied: > > >Well, that was the point ... I'm afraid I'm [hesitates... flinches] > >wavering a bit ( I think it was all that "in defence of Ron" stuff I had to > >read while compiling the Ron Weasley FAQ). I'm not signing up to R/H, I'm > >just inclined to leave the shipping lane and sit in my lifeboat. Much as I > >love the old H/H ship, I can see her sinking without a trace. Oh > >dear...what have I said? > > LOL on this story and all the responses! I think it's the first > "no-shipper" fanfic I've read and enjoyed. I *howled* at John's Celine Dion > imitation... what a cabin boy! So who's our John Jacob Astor? Our > Unsinkable Molly Brown? > > If this were the movie version of events, who are Rose and Jack? > > As Rina said, this isn't all that serious. It's really a Lilliputian war. > Some of us are Big-Endians, some of us aren't. > > And the no-shippers are Gulliver, I suppose... though it takes him an awful > long time to travel, doesn't it? ;-) > > As for the first mate stuff, I think I'll leave that to the heavyweights. > Penny as Captain, Lori as Cruise Director, John as the Incredible Singing > Russian Cabin Boy, lots of worthy first mates... my, what a vessel. > > I like being a recruiter myself. ;-) > > --Ebony (who is *thrilled* to see that we've picked up Heidi somewhere along > the way) > > <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< > Ebony AKA AngieJ > (H/H Special Agent, First Class) > > "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two > Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet > campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin > upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down > everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' > > "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry > sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on > Ron's face." > > --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From purdymango1 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 01:26:17 2001 From: purdymango1 at yahoo.com (Teek) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 17:26:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Unicorn/Infant theory Message-ID: <20010124012617.15118.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10384 --- Dai Evans wrote: > Also, from what we know of centaurs it is entirely possible that > the > infant/unicorn theory is exactly what Firenze was refering to. It's > entirely in keeping with what we know about centaurs temperament. > They say one thing, they mean another. It seemed that Firenze was > reffering to V/quirrel drinking unicorn blood but was at the same > time hinting about the events of Hallowe'en 1981. > > It strikes me that this is exactly the kind of clue JKR would drop > in to surprise us with later. But the theory gets shot down for the same reason the "Lily's sacrifice" theory doesn't completely cover all the bases - V. has killed hundreds of people before, and probably Harry isn't the first baby or young child to get in the way. Maybe though, the catch point is that V. set out specifically to kill Harry, and didn't just kill without regards to who he was harming. Certainly it may provide an additional level of protection, but I don't think that that's all that protected baby Harry. I'm leaning toward believing that Trelawny's first accurate prediction had something to do with Harry. Perhaps it was that Harry would defeat V, and Voldy, thinking rationally for once (except it didn't work...) decided to tempt fate and get rid of Harry before he could develop his power. ... actually, thinking about it, that still doesn't explain WHY or HOW... dang. Book 7 is a long way off, isn't it? -Teek (so, does this make "unicorn/infant theory" a commonly recognized term, now?) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From cewald at niu.edu Wed Jan 24 01:26:38 2001 From: cewald at niu.edu (cewald at niu.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:26:38 -0000 Subject: I'm new...I've got burning questions Message-ID: <94lb0e+9o6e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10385 You may have already discussed these questions already, but here goes: 1. In the GOF how could Voldemort cast spells from his chair in the Riddle house if his arms were too weak to hold a wand? 2. Does anyone think that there is a couple time lines going on here? Harry, Ron, Hermoine, & Neville vs. James, Lily, Sirius,& Pettigrew? 3. How come some wizards can conjure up platters of food, while poor old Mrs. Weasley has to cook with her wand? Also, I think I have come home... From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Jan 24 01:28:11 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:28:11 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Dursleys' "issues" Message-ID: <3c.67552dd.279f89ab@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10386 In a message dated 1/23/2001 8:09:13 PM EST, allyson at ptd.net writes: << In a sense, yes, however, the more I read and re-read the books, I am forced to wonder exactly why the Dursleys are the way they are. I think we are going to find out that the Dursleys have more to do with 'magic' than they let on. >> Maybe Petunia's guilt about absenting herself from her sister's life is making her use anger and bigotry as a defense mechanism? Love & Light, *Elizabeth* 90% obsessed and proud of it ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ or in my case -- You can never *be* too many Weasleys! From aichambaye at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 01:20:03 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:20:03 -0000 Subject: Quiz results! Message-ID: <94lak3+9sm0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10387 http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter Your Results Page # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Minerva McGonagall # 3 Albus Dumbledore # 4 Percy Weasley # 5 Bill Weasley # 6 Charlie Weasley # 7 Rubeus Hagrid # 8 Remus Lupin # 9 Harry Potter # 10 Voldemort *I* still think I'm McGonagall. But I admit I DO identify with Hermione! House selector! http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat # 1 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 2 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian # 3 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal # 4 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring I hate to say it.. but this is spot on! Smart, ambitious... not very brave i admit! Heather M. From randujar at wellesley.edu Wed Jan 24 01:28:20 2001 From: randujar at wellesley.edu (Rosa M. Andujar) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:28:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l9gg+jkch@eGroups.com> References: <94l9gg+jkch@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10388 I also couldn't see question #15. And I do not like my results: # 1 Severus Snape # 2 Bill Weasley # 3 Charlie Weasley # 4 Draco Malfoy # 5 Fred/George Weasley # 6 Hermione Granger # 7 Percy Weasley # 8 Ron Weasley # 9 Albus Dumbledore # 10 Minerva McGonagall # 11 Remus Lupin # 12 Voldemort # 13 Harry Potter # 14 Rubeus Hagrid # 15 Sirius Black # 16 Neville Longbottom I'm like Snape?! Impossible. I guess I should have answered the grudge question differently..... From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 01:31:32 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:31:32 -0000 Subject: If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) In-Reply-To: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lb9k+t06c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10389 Brilliant! Wonderful! I can't believe how perfectly that all fit! You did such a great job - between you and CMC you really ought to put out a CD! Thanks for the great laugh! kimberly --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > If You'd Just Let Me Explain... > [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The > Wizard of OZ] > > Scene: The Shrieking Shack > Present: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Scabbers, Lupin, Black, Snape and > Crookshanks > > (SIRIUS) > I was not the secret keeper, I pawned it off on Peter > For which I am to blame > I thought he could be trusted but instead he got me busted > If you'd just let me explain. > I admit I am compulsive, obsessive and impulsive, > And diagnosed insane > Though you think I'm a bad guy, I am innocent, not that guy > If you'd just let me explain. > > Oh I, can tell you why, I broke Ron's leg in two > and cut up his curtains with a knife, I only wanted > Pettigrew > I would not be just a nothin', a fugitive stud muffin, > My heart all full of pain. > Life would be a ding a derry, I'd be taking care of Harry > If you'd just let me explain. > > (LUPIN) > Oh, I couldn't be a lone wolf > A go-it-on-your-own wolf > My sanity to preserve. > Led my friends to animagic > Risking outcomes worse than tragic > Guess we had a lot of nerve. > I'm afraid there's no denyin' to Dumble I've been lyin' > My job I don't deserve > But I could have told the truth, all about my misspent youth, > If I'd only had the nerve > > (SIRIUS and LUPIN) > So we implore you, Snape, > Don't let this dirty rat escape > He's Peter Pettigrew > Don't let him flee to You Know Who > > > (SNAPE) > When Neville in fine fettle, destroys another kettle, > I just tear him apart. > You'd be over-presumin' that I could be kind-a human > If I only had a heart. > If I'm tender or I'm gentle- they 'll think that I've gone mental > It's better not to start > It's The Kiss for Black and Lupin > 'Cause these children they've been dupin' > I don't buy their crazy story > (SIRIUS ) > And you're dyin' for some glory > (LUPIN) > And a Merlin decoration to deserve > > (SIRIUS) Then I won't get to explain... > (HARRY)And I'll never get a home... > (HERMIONE) If he only had a heart... > (SIRIUS) A brain... > (SNAPE) What nerve! > > (Hermione, Harry and Ron disarm Snape and knock him out) From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Jan 24 01:37:49 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:37:49 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lbld+dfhp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10390 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, drmm at f... wrote: > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. > > # 1 Severus Snape > # 2 Draco Malfoy > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Voldemort > # 5 Hermione Granger > > Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering the > fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't terribly > surprise me. > > I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author > needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" question to > weed him out of peoples results. > > I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters > traits, which this proves I think :) > > DrMM lol here's my result # 1 Albus Dumbledore # 2 Harry Potter # 3 Charlie Weasley # 4 Remus Lupin # 5 Severus Snape # 6 Hermione Granger # 7 Minerva McGonagall # 8 Rubeus Hagrid # 9 Sirius Black # 10 Bill Weasley # 11 Percy Weasley # 12 Ron Weasley # 13 Fred/George Weasley # 14 Neville Longbottom # 15 Draco Malfoy # 16 Voldemort From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 01:42:18 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Chris ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:42:18 -0000 Subject: Hate her(him)! Message-ID: <94lbtq+od1u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10391 Aloha all! (I apologize in advance if this has been already done and it's one that I missed. I blame my newbee-ness! <=o)) I've been through much of the posts here and I was curious..... I've noticed the two catagories - most liked characters and most feared. What about the most hated? Who do you detest the most and why? As I read through each book, I found the ones that I love, feared, disliked, etc. I thought that I hated the Dursleys for their treatment of HP. I thought that I hated Draco for being such a nasty brat. Until Rita Skeeter came along! Now I dislike the Dursleys and Draco but hate RS! The Dursleys are ignorant with fear so you SORT OF pity them in a little way. Draco has evil parents so you can kind of see how upbringing can influence him and give him a LITTLE slack. But at least they are up front with their nastiness! Rita Skeeter will give her kissy kissy face just before she kicks you in the *bleep*! She is a backstabbing, two-faced, malicious *ahem*! Even Voldy is up front with his evil self. No pretense. No twisting things around. He will kill you! Yes, scary (okay, VERY SCARY) but you can prepare yourself for it and maybe even defend yourself like Harry did. Even for all his badness, he united many people against him. Rita divided friends and family and made them doubt eachother. She did more damage the people's morale that anyone else the all four books. I mean, jeez, even Mrs. Weasley doubted Hermione! (yes, yes, I know there was doubt among the students during CoS but those are different circumstances). I whooped with joy when Hermione caught her in a jar! I am still disappointed that she was going to release RS in London. I would've wanted to drop her off at Azkaban, Attention: Dementors, and let them play with HER mind before they give her the kissy face! I know, not very mature. At least I would've pulled a Percy and handed her over to the proper authorities and let them handle her situation in accordance to the governing laws. So of all the characters, which do you hate the most and why? Have a great day! Christy Formally Message 10364 of 10379 * About eGroups | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | No Spam! | International | Contact Us Copyright ? 1998-2000 eGroups, Inc. All rights reserved. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 01:50:02 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 01:50:02 -0000 Subject: The Good Ship H/H In-Reply-To: <013d01c085e7$b0a4bde0$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> Message-ID: <94lcca+9fcc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10392 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Aberforth's Goat" wrote: > Do be careful, though. The Swiss are a stern and moral race. Too much > frolicking and they might extradite you after all--and I'd hate to face > court martial for instigating the mutiny of a fanship. > > (The fact is, an able officer will never be kept marooned for long, > particularly since all those PoU Group printouts could easily be recycled > into a raft big enough to take on the high seas ... ) > > Baaaaaa! > > Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) Thanks for the advice, I wouldn't want to be an insult to my new homeland. But don't worry about me - I'm comfy here. I like the freedom of sitting back and waiting for the talented Ms Rowling to make the shipping decisions. I will be more than happy to accept whatever she throws my way. Now, if she leaves any one alone and destitute, I'll be terribly sad, but I trust her not to do that without a good reason. Kimberly, shushing down the slopes of shipless bliss From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 24 01:54:33 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:54:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l9gg+jkch@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6E35D8.5BFF8FAE@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10393 Should it disturb me that I am more Voldemort than Harry? # 1 Charlie Weasley # 2 Hermione Granger # 3 Albus Dumbledore # 4 Bill Weasley # 5 Minerva McGonagall # 6 Percy Weasley # 7 Fred/George Weasley # 8 Remus Lupin # 9 Severus Snape # 10 Draco Malfoy # 11 Ron Weasley # 12 Voldemort # 13 Rubeus Hagrid # 14 Harry Potter # 15 Neville Longbottom # 16 Sirius Black From meiko00 at earthlink.net Wed Jan 24 02:01:15 2001 From: meiko00 at earthlink.net (meiko00) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:01:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Quiz results! In-Reply-To: <94lak3+9sm0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10394 http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter Your Results Page # 1 Minerva McGonagall I always knew I should have been a school teacher. ;) House selector! http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat # 1 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring Me? Brave? LMAO! I would say that from the way that the houses are portrayed in the books, Gryffindor would be the house I would most fit into. From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Wed Jan 24 02:09:09 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:09:09 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] bummer Message-ID: <20010124020909.8900.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10395 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From ender_w at msn.com Wed Jan 24 02:23:36 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:23:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise References: <94j15l+5eq0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <004b01c085ac$a89e7540$1d690f3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 10396 Does Hallmark have the pens too? Ender ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > > Try the Hallmark stores. They have variety of HP stickers. > > > > I just went to my regular Hallmark and yes, they do have stickers. > Apparently they just got them in. So now I have my stickers. Also, > they had a sale going on, all HP merchandise half off. I don't know if > all the stores are doing that, but you might want to check. > > Thena > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Jan 24 02:20:50 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:20:50 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <10.7d70801.279f9602@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10397 In a message dated 1/23/2001 8:31:59 PM EST, joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com writes: << Am I the only whose computer decided not to show question number 15? >> My puter didn't show #15 either. I chose to answer it "not sure." Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 02:17:24 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Chris ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:17:24 -0000 Subject: (unknown) In-Reply-To: <00e501c0859d$740de040$ad04bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94ldvk+oinh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10398 Sorry! I had to redo my original posting because I realized that I didn't give it a title. So I deleted it, reposted and named it. I didn't know that someone had already responded to it! Really interesting point! I love this site! Everyone has really opened my mind to other possibilities! I'm not sure of them being involved with moldy Voldy, though. In the first book, Mr. Dursley doesn't attribute all the magical stuff with magic. Just tricks of the eyes and weird kid fashions until he got wind of the word "Potter" and then it all clicked for him. If he's in on it then his first suspect would have been magic. Also, he didn't know what the man in the violet cloak meant about "...You-Know- Who has gone at last!..." He was more concerned that the guy hugged him! (a homophobe on top of that, sheesh, well why not, he's an arcaneophobe!) I could be wrong...after all, Voldemort is part muggle. The Dursleys are really nasty mean muggles. It would be interesting to find out that V was actually the cousin of Lily and Petunia and V's father was the best friend of Mr. D's father. Oops, I read Dean Koontz alot and I think it's showing! Pardon me, I think I am in left field again! <;o) christy ============================= --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Allyson" wrote: > >>The Dursleys are ignorant with fear so you SORT OF > pity them in a little way. > > In a sense, yes, however, the more I read and re-read the books, I am forced to wonder exactly why the Dursleys are the way they are. I think we are going to find out that the Dursleys have more to do with 'magic' than they let on. Part of me wonders if they had something to do with the fatal attack on Lily and James. I am not so sure they are 'ignorant with fear' or just plain guilt ridden at what they have, in part, helped to create. The only thing I think they truly fear is the big V. I wonder if they were in cahoots at one point in time with him or his co-horts and now, the "fear" of magic actually translates into a fear of the big V seeking them out. I don't know....maybe I am rambling! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 6:33 PM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] (unknown) > > > Aloha all! > (I apologize in advance if this has been already done and it's one > that I missed. I blame my newbee-ness! <=o)) > I've been through much of the posts here and I was curious..... > I've noticed the two catagories - most liked characters and most > feared. > What about the most hated? Who do you detest the most and why? > > As I read through each book, I found the ones that I love, feared, > disliked, etc. I thought that I hated the Dursleys for their > treatment of HP. I thought that I hated Draco for being such a nasty > brat. Until Rita Skeeter came along! Now I dislike the Dursleys and > Draco but hate RS! The Dursleys are ignorant with fear so you SORT OF > pity them in a little way. Draco has evil parents so you can kind of > see how upbringing can influence him and give him a LITTLE slack. But > at least they are up front with their nastiness! Rita Skeeter will > give her kissy kissy face just before she kicks you in the *bleep*! > She is a backstabbing, two-faced, malicious *ahem*! Even Voldy is > up front with his evil self. No pretense. No twisting things around. > He will kill you! Yes, scary (okay, VERY SCARY) but you can prepare > yourself for it and maybe even defend yourself like Harry did. Even > for all his badness, he united many people against him. Rita divided > friends and family and made them doubt eachother. She did more damage > the people's morale that anyone else the all four books. I mean, > jeez, even Mrs. Weasley doubted Hermione! (yes, yes, I know there was > doubt among the students during CoS but those are different > circumstances). > I whooped with joy when Hermione caught her in a jar! I am still > disappointed that she was going to release RS in London. I would've > wanted to drop her off at Azkaban, Attention: Dementors, and let them > play with HER mind before they give her the kissy face! I know, not > very mature. At least I would've pulled a Percy and handed her over > to the proper authorities and let them handle her situation in > accordance to the governing laws. > > So of all the characters, which do you hate the most and why? > > Have a great day! > > Christy > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Wed Jan 24 02:26:03 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:26:03 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipper Poll and No-Ship Complaints Message-ID: <20010124022603.9507.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10399 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From ender_w at msn.com Wed Jan 24 02:31:47 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:31:47 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz References: <94j3vd+v8ij@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005901c085ad$cd65a140$1d690f3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 10400 Only 40% for me...I'm very disappointed in myself. If only I didn't have all those pesky graduate classes taking up all of my time! neder oops...dyslexia rears it's ugly head again. I meant to type- ender From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 24 02:36:30 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:36:30 -0000 Subject: If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) In-Reply-To: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lf3e+lpl1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10401 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, foxmoth at q... wrote: > If You'd Just Let Me Explain... > [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The > Wizard of OZ] > I'm envious! I've been trying to come up with a vehicle to "filk" this scene for some time, and you've beat me to it! Great job! - CMC From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 24 02:38:02 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:38:02 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lf6a+4abq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10402 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, drmm at f... wrote: > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. I found my results rather interesting, but pretty true to form for me: # 1 Minerva McGonagall # 2 Albus Dumbledore # 3 Harry Potter # 4 Hermione Granger # 5 Percy Weasley # 6 Charlie Weasley # 7 Severus Snape # 8 Bill Weasley # 9 Fred/George Weasley # 10 Neville Longbottom And very strangely weighing in at #15: (which completely confuses me) # 15 Voldemort Weird - or maybe not-Mwahahahahahahaha! Jeralyn, the voicelady From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 02:42:49 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:42:49 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94kkd8+r593@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lff9+obe1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10403 In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" > > I like this idea about the infant/unicorn business. However, Harry > having no special abilities makes it unlikely he will be able to > defend himself against, much less defeat, Voldemort in the near > future (which is what must surely happen in book 7, unless JKR wants > to write more or intends to have the bad guys win), except by > trickery/dumb luck. And there's still the fact that he could hold off > the Imperius Curse when a powerful wizard like Crouch the Elder was > kept under control for months... > Keith, I agree that there are a lot of holes in my theory. I like it, but it leaves a lot unexplained. And I do think that Harry is a strong wizard, probably quite a bit above average, but I don't think he is 'other'. Does that make any sense? I don't think he's a super-wizard, or has powers that are beyond those of other great wizards we've seen like Dumbledore or Voldemort. I'm still thinking on that part though. I have lots of thoughts in my head that might help explain things without Harry having powers beyond that of wizards in general, but so far they're rather incoherent, so first let me address the part that I do have a coherent (if not particularly well developed) thought on, which is why Harry could resist the Imperious Curse and the Crouch men couldn't. Granted, I may well be completely off-base, but I think it's because Harry is a very self-controlled person, and very strong-willed. He had to be in order to survive as a whole person at the Dursley's. They told him what to do and what to think and how to act and who to be for 10 years, and he still managed to come out of it with a personality and a will and even a wit of his own. I find that extraordinary in and of itself, but it's not really a special power. Crouch Jr. is a follower. He may be maniacle about it, but it's not his own will he's pursuing. He chose to give his will over to someone else to begin with, and to me that indicates a tendency that would make him susceptible to the Imperious Curse. And Crouch Sr. Well, that one's harder. I'd say here that he was already a little bit nuts - quite fanatical, and his constant fear of being exposed as a fraud might have made him like the euphoric feeling of the curse when he no longer had to make his own decisions. He's been basically gritting his teeth and clenching his every muscle for however many years now, and maybe he kinda liked not having any control for a change. Does that make any sense? Harry has a little voice in his head basically going 'I don't wanna do that'. Maybe Crouch Sr. was tired of being in control and listening to that voice all the time, or maybe all Sr's voice says is *don't let anyone know your secret*, in which case fighting off the curse to tell the truth was a very valiant thing for him to do in the end, even if it took him forever to do it. Ok, let me get back to you on the rest of it if/when I ever can put the rest of my thoughts together. Hope that was at least a little bit coherent. Kimberly From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Wed Jan 24 02:48:08 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 23 Jan 2001 18:48:08 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Good Ship H/H Message-ID: <20010124024808.10287.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10404 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 24 02:57:07 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 02:57:07 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94lf6a+4abq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lga3+7t6r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10405 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jeralyn " wrote: > And very strangely weighing in at #15: (which completely confuses me) > # 15 Voldemort And then, after the fact, I realized that there are only the 16 characters that are re-ranked according to the choices made on the test. Duh. From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 24 03:03:17 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:03:17 -0000 Subject: Remember the Marshall Fields Show from the holidays?/look! In-Reply-To: <94i9jp+og5q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lgll+a5ih@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10406 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi.h.tandy.c92 at a... wrote: > Peg's pictures were great - but some of the ones at > http://chicago.about.com/citiestowns/midwestus/chicago/library/weekly/ > aa011501a.htm?once=true& are even better - Harry is *so so so* cute > in the first picture of him (although whoever wrote the accompanying > text needs an editor very very badly) > > heidi who is catching up on her nine billion email messages & is glad > things are slower today - is everyone reading DS11? Oh my gosh, these pictures are incredible! How wonderful...! I had not seen Peg's pictures... A friend had been in Chicago and saw it in person but the description no where near met reality..I LOVE the owl.. Hagrid gets to be a giant, whereas in the film he will only be a really tall man....I don't like Dumbledore, and I don't like the picture of James and Lily, and I pictured Draco with think straight blonde hair..but these are nitpicks..I just loved them! THANK YOU Heidi for posting Susan From dir.crl at attcanada.ca Wed Jan 24 03:06:54 2001 From: dir.crl at attcanada.ca (dir.crl at attcanada.ca) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:06:54 -0000 Subject: Live Dragons: Translation In-Reply-To: <94l5ba+p9hh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lgse+c62i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10407 Grrraaahhhh... I posted another reply to this that was supposed to contain a latin translation of the phrase "Never laugh at live Dragons" but I ended up just re-posting the original question...well I'm new...bear with me. Anyways, here's the translation if anyone still cares: "Draco Vivens Nunquam Riderundus" or "Draco Animans Nunquam Riderundus" ~Divy From dir.crl at attcanada.ca Wed Jan 24 03:10:49 2001 From: dir.crl at attcanada.ca (dir.crl at attcanada.ca) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:10:49 -0000 Subject: Which character are you Message-ID: <94lh3p+7ui7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10408 Im not terribly surprised to have Hermione first, though I'm a little troubled that I'm more of a Voldemort than a Harry Potter. # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Charlie Weasley # 3 Remus Lupin # 4 Bill Weasley # 5 Percy Weasley # 6 Rubeus Hagrid # 7 Albus Dumbledore # 8 Ron Weasley # 9 Minerva McGonagall # 10 Voldemort # 11 Severus Snape # 12 Draco Malfoy # 13 Neville Longbottom # 14 Sirius Black # 15 Fred/George Weasley # 16 Harry Potter ~Divy From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 24 03:12:47 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:12:47 -0000 Subject: Fly Brooms (filk) Message-ID: <94lh7f+a3lk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10409 Fly Brooms (from HP/SS, Chap. 9) (To the tune of High Hopes) (THE SCENE: Hogwarts' Quidditch field. Madam Hooch has just departed to the infirmary with Neville, who was injured in a fall. Ignoring her explicit instructions to cease and desist from further flying, HARRY takes off in full broomstick-pursuit of Draco Malfoy when the latter fails to return a trinket belonging to Neville. Suddenly, Prof. McGonagall and the entire Gryffindor Quidditch team appears. HARRY is initially abashed; Draco smirks, relishing what he believes will be disciplinary action against HARRY) McGONAGALL When Neville got hurt, Hooch said leave brooms inert A message Potter ignored: says this alert...... CHORUS OF SLYTHERIN STUDENTS Hey there, Potter, step to the rear Playing Quidditch is beyond your sphere We know that no first-year here Can in a match appear McGONAGALL AND OLIVER WOOD But he can fly brooms, in the sky zoom If we make room and then groom him we can assume That they'll be no more ditherin' When we play Slytherin Slytherin's gonna be doomed! >From the tomb their bodies will be exhumed! GRYFFINDOR TEAM >From the tomb their bodies will be exhumed! GEORGE AND FRED When it's time for the season's first game Remember the house cup will win us acclaim And since we all share that same game aim Here's what we're going to claim.... GRYFFINDOR TEAM & McGONAGALL That when he flies brooms, he ends our gloom He will loom in full bloom in a Quidditch costume Young Harry has found his niche With the Golden Snitch Slytherin's toast, we presume! Snape that Slytherin ape is going to fume! GEORGE AND FRED Snape that Slytherin ape is going to fume! HARRY So let me fly brooms, in the sky zoom When play resumes, give me my broom, our foes I'll consume! `Cause when I fly for Gryffindor Gryffindor will soar Keep your eyes on the score! You will see that scoreboard going kaboom! GRYFFINDOR TEAM & McGONAGALL We will see that scoreboard going kaboom! - CMC From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 03:17:01 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:17:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grammar question References: Message-ID: <3A6E492D.AE31B669@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10410 John Walton wrote: > Hmm. Does this --> sound better? > > The Committee grant THEIR permission to build. > > >> And the Committee puts its (the signatures of its members) on the > >> document.... > > > > British: And the Committee put its signatures on the document. > > The Committee put THEIR signatures on the document. > > Does that help? Yes! Muchas gonzales! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 03:22:31 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:22:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] If You'd Just Let Me Explain (filk) References: <94krqp+o01j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6E4A77.4B55040A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10411 Oh, Pippin! This is absolutely, positively wonderful! I give it four out of four Bertie Botts Beans. --Amanda, filk critic foxmoth at qnet.com wrote: > If You'd Just Let Me Explain... > [a filk by Pippin, to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" from The > Wizard of OZ] > > Scene: The Shrieking Shack > Present: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Scabbers, Lupin, Black, Snape and > Crookshanks > > (SIRIUS) > I was not the secret keeper, I pawned it off on Peter > For which I am to blame > I thought he could be trusted but instead he got me busted > If you'd just let me explain. > I admit I am compulsive, obsessive and impulsive, > And diagnosed insane > Though you think I'm a bad guy, I am innocent, not that guy > If you'd just let me explain. > > Oh I, can tell you why, I broke Ron's leg in two > and cut up his curtains with a knife, I only wanted > Pettigrew > I would not be just a nothin', a fugitive stud muffin, > My heart all full of pain. > Life would be a ding a derry, I'd be taking care of Harry > If you'd just let me explain. > > (LUPIN) > Oh, I couldn't be a lone wolf > A go-it-on-your-own wolf > My sanity to preserve. > Led my friends to animagic > Risking outcomes worse than tragic > Guess we had a lot of nerve. > I'm afraid there's no denyin' to Dumble I've been lyin' > My job I don't deserve > But I could have told the truth, all about my misspent youth, > If I'd only had the nerve > > (SIRIUS and LUPIN) > So we implore you, Snape, > Don't let this dirty rat escape > He's Peter Pettigrew > Don't let him flee to You Know Who > > (SNAPE) > When Neville in fine fettle, destroys another kettle, > I just tear him apart. > You'd be over-presumin' that I could be kind-a human > If I only had a heart. > If I'm tender or I'm gentle- they 'll think that I've gone mental > It's better not to start > It's The Kiss for Black and Lupin > 'Cause these children they've been dupin' > I don't buy their crazy story > (SIRIUS ) > And you're dyin' for some glory > (LUPIN) > And a Merlin decoration to deserve > > (SIRIUS) Then I won't get to explain... > (HARRY)And I'll never get a home... > (HERMIONE) If he only had a heart... > (SIRIUS) A brain... > (SNAPE) What nerve! > > (Hermione, Harry and Ron disarm Snape and knock him out) > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 24 03:16:57 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:16:57 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Remember the Marshall Fields Show from the holidays?/look! References: <94lgll+a5ih@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6E4928.F1A2E746@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10412 Susan McGee wrote: > really tall man....I don't like Dumbledore, and I don't like the > picture of James and Lily, and I pictured Draco with think straight > blonde hair..but these are nitpicks..I just loved them! Yeah, I think the picture that said it was Draco was really Hermione - it looks a *lot* like her image in the WB stuff. From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 03:24:37 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:24:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" References: Message-ID: <3A6E4AF4.33D0088E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10413 Penny Linsenmayer wrote: > Penny (not so sure I want to be captain anymore if I must die with my ship > .... can I be the ship owner instead & surreptiously find my way to a > lifeboat?) Jeez, Penny, in "women and children first" you qualify on both counts--just jump in the silly boat! After reading that, no wonder shipping makes me seasick.... --Amanda From mschub at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 03:31:10 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:31:10 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94li9u+mdum@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10414 #1 Charlie Weasley #2 Fred/George Weasley #3 Lupin #4 Dumbledore #5 Harry Potter Close but... I would have put MAJOR money on my being closer to Gred and Forge than to Charlie. And I think it's kind of interesting that I can be those 3 first and then have Sirius in dead last. Sirius kinda seems to go with Charlie, Fred/George, and Lupin... I notice a lot of other people are finding Sirius well-seperated from those three too. I've always felt they all had a lot in common. -Mike From mschub at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 03:25:38 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:25:38 -0000 Subject: So just how influential IS Arthur Weasley? Message-ID: <94lhvi+qs5f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10415 I mean, my first 4 or 5 times through the books, I had just gone on the assumption that he was just a fairly average bureaucrat, one of hundreds (thousands?) like him in the Ministry. But now, with each reread of the series, it strikes me that he's no low-level functionary. I mean, he's the head of a department, and really all we know about it is that it's the "most boring department", according to Ron. (There's also the time that Mr. Weasley mentions how it's just him and one other wizard [I'm thinking Mundungus Fletcher, but that seems wrong to me. Was he the one that hexed Arthur?], but I got the impression, for some reason, that the department is bigger now than it was when Arthur first made that comment.) Consider the fact that he got 9 or 10 seats (we don't really see any mention of Ginny in that scene, do we? Or Charlie, Bill, Fred, George, or Percy, for that matter. But we know that Arthur, Harry, Ron, and Hermione were there.) in a box that held "about twenty purple-and-gilt chairs...in two rows". Now I suppose, in a stretch, this could be interpreted as about 40 seats, and not as about 20. And I would tend to think that 40 is closer to the actual number due to the fact that "Mr. Weasley KEPT shaking hands with people who were obviously very important wizards", and "Percy jumped to his feet so often he looked as though he were [that sounds weird to me... is that correct grammar in British English, or was that a mistake? Or, for that matter, is correct grammar in American English, and I've just been misspeaking all these years?] trying to sit on a hedgehog." So even assuming this box could fit a HUNDRED people, 10 seats is pretty darn impressive, being owed a favor from Ludo Bagman or not. Anyway, my point is this. What do you think he would be equated to in, say, U.S. politics? A major cabinet member? The head of a more minor Dept.? Just an interesting question. -Mike Schubert From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 03:34:23 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:34:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6E4D3E.6EE1FD97@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10416 drmm at fuuko.com wrote: > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. I posted my whole list, for the amusing fact of who is the last. I guess opposites attract, eh? # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Harry Potter # 3 Ron Weasley # 4 Bill Weasley # 5 Charlie Weasley # 6 Percy Weasley # 7 Rubeus Hagrid # 8 Albus Dumbledore # 9 Remus Lupin # 10 Fred/George Weasley # 11 Neville Longbottom # 12 Minerva McGonagall # 13 Voldemort # 14 Draco Malfoy # 15 Sirius Black # 16 Severus Snape If anyone else takes/has taken this, was there a question at #15? Because it was blank when I went there. --Amanda From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 04:28:42 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:28:42 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00e401c085be$23160520$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10417 Whew! I was hoping that it would look like this! :) At least the threesome are all three at top, and I answered the questions really truthfully (all but 15, which was Not Sure, since I too couldn't read it!) Your Results Page # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Harry Potter # 3 Ron Weasley # 4 Percy Weasley # 5 Remus Lupin # 6 Albus Dumbledore # 7 Minerva McGonagall # 8 Neville Longbottom # 9 Rubeus Hagrid # 10 Bill Weasley # 11 Charlie Weasley # 12 Draco Malfoy # 13 Severus Snape # 14 Fred/George Weasley # 15 Voldemort # 16 Sirius Black From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 03:40:31 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 21:40:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <20010123.181133.-488439.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> Message-ID: <3A6E4EAE.F54FFB1E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10418 Sara Metz wrote: > BTW, has anyone tried the Hogwarts House Sorter at: > http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat? > I'm Gryffindor followed by Hufflepuff. It'll be interesting to see if > everybody gets into the house they want to get into. I'm Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, Slytherin. I feel an affinity for Ravenclaw, but I'll take Gryffindor, I suppose. --Amanda From mschub at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 03:51:01 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:51:01 -0000 Subject: So just how influential IS Arthur Weasley? In-Reply-To: <94lhvi+qs5f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ljf5+26d7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10419 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: Consider the fact that he > got 9 or 10 seats (we don't really see any mention of Ginny in that > scene, do we? Or Charlie, Bill, Fred, George, or Percy, for that > matter. But we know that Arthur, Harry, Ron, and Hermione were there.) > in a box that held "about twenty purple-and-gilt chairs...in two > rows"............And I would tend to think that 40 is > closer to the actual number due to the fact that "Mr. Weasley KEPT > shaking hands with people who were obviously very important wizards", > and "Percy jumped to his feet so often he looked as though he were trying to sit on a hedgehog." So I guess we DO see a mention of Percy. My oops... Still no sign of Ginny, Charlie, Bill, Fred, or George though. -Mike From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 24 04:01:52 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:01:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 482 References: <980284670.68250.74147.l6@egroups.com> Message-ID: <004301c085ba$6362bb40$88d0320c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 10420 __________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 12:18:09 -0600 From: Amanda Lewanski Subject: Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie Sara Metz wrote: > There's been a lot of talk about hoping the movie will be good and true > to the book, which got me to thinking: what scene, from any of the four > books, do you most want to see up on the big screen? I'd like to see Chris Columbus and the Warner lawyers groveling in the dust before JKR's feet, loudly confessing that they are not worthy to realize her vision for the Silver Screen, and begging her to take back the rights she so unwisely sold.... - CMC From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 24 03:54:17 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:54:17 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ljl9+skg9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10421 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, drmm at f... wrote: > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. > > # 1 Severus Snape > # 2 Draco Malfoy > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Voldemort > # 5 Hermione Granger > > Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering the > fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't terribly > surprise me. > > I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author > needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" Wow, my #1 was Remus Lupin and my #2 was Albus Dumbledore..if asked "which character would you identify with it would be Dumbledore!" and I LOVE Lupin and Black.... > weed him out of peoples results. > > I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters > traits, which this proves I think :) > > DrMM From andeinmn at aol.com Wed Jan 24 03:54:46 2001 From: andeinmn at aol.com (andeinmn at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:54:46 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns Message-ID: <3c.67c54be.279fac06@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10422 In a message dated 1/23/01 12:11:11 PM Central Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: > But imagine the mayhem possible at a wizarding version of daycare. Not > only do you have a double handful of small children, it's a double > handful of small children who are learning magic like ours learn ABCs. > Perhaps wizarding daycare providers are rare, therefore, and there wasn't > much other option. > And, since we've mentioned ABC's, where do young witches and wizards learn theirs? It seems doubtful, looking at the Weasley family, that they attend Muggle schools. I dare say they would have been more familiar with Muggle artifacts (such as telephones) if they had. Has this been discussed before? Any thoughts? Ande From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Jan 24 03:55:49 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:55:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] character quiz, #15 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10423 One of my friends just came up with an interesting theory regarding this question: She thinks it was intentionally left blank to see how we would react to the unknown. Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 24 03:26:07 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:26:07 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> <005501c08595$e5b8f8e0$ad04bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <017e01c085b5$64282060$883670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10424 This is how I came out. Hmmm. I'm not sure that wearing glasses alters my personality... maybe it's a Clark Kent thing. # 1 Albus Dumbledore # 2 Remus Lupin # 3 Bill Weasley # 4 Charlie Weasley # 5 Harry Potter # 6 Severus Snape # 7 Fred/George Weasley # 8 Minerva McGonagall # 9 Draco Malfoy # 10 Ron Weasley Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "Ron, full of turkey and cake and with nothing mysterious to bother him, fell asleep almost as soon as he'd drawn the curtains of his four-poster." [Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone] From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 24 04:03:44 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:03:44 -0000 Subject: The Kiss and LMM (was What is no-shipping? Anne, "Grease") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94lk71+n9ef@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10425 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony Elizabeth Thomas" wrote: > Someone wrote (emphatically not I): > > > > I have to chuckle at that first sentence after all the debate > >over The Kiss last week. I'm not interested in 14 year old's love lives > >either, but certainly a lot of people here are! > > My signoff for a previous post, attached to the above, was: > > > > --Ebony (who as a Lucy Maud Montgomery fan has no qualms about > >predicting > > > > future matches for kid characters... when you're into Maud, it > >comes with > > > > the territory) > > Susan put both of these together and wrote: > > >uh, except that I would never have noticed "the KISS" had it not been > >for the shippers who argue that it was "significant". Percy plunges > >into the lake to see if Ron was okay. Hermione kisses Harry when > >she realizes he is okay. Same stuff. Period. > > > >I'm totally into Lucy Maud Montgomery..and would not agree with you... > > Isn't it funny that as a thread progresses, attributions go shifting all > over the place? LOL! > > No shipper here has ever argued that the kiss was significant. The R/Hers > certainly haven't. The H/Hers laugh about it and wonder what Hermione was > thinking, but the archived posts show that for the most part we agree with > you! > > I've said my students think it's extremely significant. Cassie and others > have taken their own polls. Despite my ship preference, I still don't set > too much store by it *especially* when I didn't even remember it upon first > reading! > > Penny in the past has teased the R/Hers by saying "that's 1 in the H/H > column, 0 in the R/H", but she even has admitted that it doesn't necessarily > have deep significance. > > The kiss has absolutely nothing to do with LMM. My tendency to ship does. > So I guess that's our point of disagreement--though I have a few Maud-fan > friends who are shippers around these parts, mostly sailing on the good (?) > ship R/H. ;-) > > BTW, Susan, if you're interested in a really good and active Lucy Maud > Montgomery list that Trina, Kelley, Barbara, and I are subscribed to, e-mail > us off list. We'd love to have you... > > --Ebony > Thanks, Ebony, please email me privately with LMM info.... My memory is that folks were arguing that the kiss WAS significant and used the argument that the 14 year olds that they knew thought it was significant. Memory can be faulty of course, but... Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 24 04:05:59 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:05:59 -0000 Subject: British -> American "Translation" (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94lkb7+sa2r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10426 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > Susan McGee wrote: > > > Uh, John...If any student has a problem with this, s/he should > > present her/his case to the Assistant Dean..is correct, don't you > > think? > > > > He stopped including she a while back.... > > ::wink:: Not in the UK. Remember, we only discovered fire in the late 1940s. > :) > > --John > > That helps explain JKR From aichambaye at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 04:09:50 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:09:50 -0000 Subject: Quiz and Pens at Hallmark Message-ID: <94lkie+mt88@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10427 I bought a pen today at Hallmark. It is REALLY cool. I don't know who asked, but I wanted to respond. I'm going to another Hallmark (maybe tomorrow) to see what they have. The one I was at today is quite small. So you might call around and see which one has what. One question 15, the mysterious blank question... I ticked YES and then put it on HIGH. Just for fun! Heh heh. Heather M, off to read PoA From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 04:12:27 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:12:27 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" In-Reply-To: <001801c08585$93e24cc0$883670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <94lknb+d5i6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10428 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, > Penny said: > > > Neil! It was hilarious, but couldn't you have compared the Good Ship R/H > to > > Titanic rather than our very own SS H/H? > > > > Penny (not so sure I want to be captain anymore if I must die with my ship > > .... can I be the ship owner instead & surreptiously find my way to a > > lifeboat?) > "Neil Ward" wrote: > Well, that was the point ... I'm afraid I'm [hesitates... flinches] wavering > a bit ( I think it was all that "in defence of Ron" stuff I had to read > while compiling the Ron Weasley FAQ). I'm not signing up to R/H, I'm just > inclined to leave the shipping lane and sit in my lifeboat. Much as I love > the old H/H ship, I can see her sinking without a trace. Oh dear...what > have I said? ] Neil, So you're taking the plunge too? Go shipless! It's very liberating! The water's great, and I've heard there's this little lobster guy who goes around playing reggae tunes. He sing's 'kiss the girl' to various boys at random, just to shake things up on the ships. And the giant squid is a great dancer! Dive in and enjoy! kimberly From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 24 04:32:09 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:32:09 -0000 Subject: Whatever Creature We Deem (filk) Message-ID: <94lls9+4vdg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10429 Whatever Creature We Deem (To the tune of Swing on a Star) (The Scene: Behind locked doors at Gryffindor, a generation or so distant. Three friends of Remus Lupin, SIRIUS BLACK, JAMES POTTER, and PETER PETTIGREW have reached the point in their Animagi studies that they are now ready to select the type of animal into which they will transform) ALL Advanced magic we now can perform As Animagi, we will change form And transcend ev'ry human norm SIRIUS I'd think I'd rather be a dog. A dog is a loyal creature whose faithfulness grows He can track anything down with his nose. PETER AND JAMES He patiently learns when he should sit and stay For he knows that every dog will have his day SIRIUS And therefore I think it would be fine To change myself to a canine ALL Would you like to learn to change shape Anything from a frog to an ape And get a laugh on Severus Snape? JAMES I think I'd rather be a stag A stag is a creature full of grandeur and grace His fleetness will win him any race. SIRIUS AND PETER He takes toward no one an unfriendly tone But he will give his life so to protect his own JAMES And since I would live life without fear I think I'll be that kind of deer ALL To fulfill one of our deepest dreams A variation on human themes And be whatever creature we deem PETER I think I'd rather be a rat A rat is a tiny creature of shadow and night Yet everyone fears its savage bite. SIRIUS AND JAMES It needs very little in order to survive Its first priority's just to stay alive PETER And although I see that you're shocked by that I'd think I'd rather be a rat. ALL We'll now take the Proteus road We accept what the future may bode For who yet can decipher its code? SIRIUS and JAMES (to PETER) It's OK to be a rat, we think But please don't turn out a ratfink! - CMC From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 24 04:32:40 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:32:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] character quiz, #15 References: Message-ID: <3A6E5AE8.BD4AA949@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10430 mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > One of my friends just came up with an interesting theory regarding this > question: > > She thinks it was intentionally left blank to see how we would react to the > unknown. Methinks the question is "Can you read things written in invisivble html script" or possibly "Can you read Parsletongue" From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 04:39:40 2001 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jen Piersol) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:39:40 -0000 Subject: (OT) From the teacher's desk... In-Reply-To: <94kl14+4p52@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94lmac+i1os@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10431 Ebony said... > I'm not a linguist, but studying composition and rhetoric, which > means I tend to emphasize the overall process of writing and > style in my teaching and research rather than "nuts-and-bolts" > mechanical issues. This means that my fifth grade English > classes very rarely consist of writing 50 sentences, underlining > the subject, then double-lining the predicate. In fact, I have given > papers with no "surface level errors" grades of C or less... and > I've given papers with one or two spelling mistakes As. I'm a linguist (yippee!), and I'd just like to point out... While linguistics is the study of language (encompassing phonetics, semantics, etc) we don't as a rule instruct students how to use "better grammar". We just study how they use it, no matter if it is "incorrect" or not. In fact, most linguists will tell you that there is no such thing as incorrect English (or Spanish, or Bulgarian or whatever) usage. If you understand it, it's correct. ;) Just wanted to clear that up (not like anybody really picked out THAT as the most important point of your post, but...) although I admit, I haven't been following the "grammar question" thread, and I could be WAY off base here. :) Jen (who wishes there were more interesting jobs for B.A. linguists) From kathleen at carr.org Wed Jan 24 04:44:30 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:44:30 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <200101240446.f0O4kHC18360@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10432 Whoa, somehow I ended up as Charlie Weasley, with Hermione and Percy in 2nd and 3rd place. Not what I would have expected, though not I'm not unhappy at the thought... Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 04:50:15 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:50:15 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <00ee01c0858f$ec0a7620$27479cac@shelley> Message-ID: <94lmu7+ci7k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10433 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Kimberly wrote: > > < as a possible explanation that wouldn't include something outside of > canon like Lily performing some special charm or Harry being > super-baby. I don't know if it's true, but it is one theory I've come > up with.>> > > I think it makes perfect sense. I know that Harry has some big powers, but Voldemort *was able to curse him in the end of book 4. So whatever saved him from being killed then is gone now, and I think it goes beyond Lily's love and protection. Plus, I think it sounds like something JKR would do, giving a hint for future explanations. > > Rina > giggling at the thought of Harry "Super Baby" Potter Rina, I think I'm going to frame your post so that at some point I can point it out to someone and say - See! I once said something that made perfect sense! Of course no one will ever believe me... Will you send it again and put on there that I didn't bribe you to say that? Kimberly From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 04:57:58 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:57:58 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <010a01c08590$9ae5a520$27479cac@shelley> Message-ID: <94lncm+tpkf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10434 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > That was fun. LOL My top five are Hermione, Percy, Dumbledore, Neville, and Ron. I'm not entirely sure if that's good or bad... > What a nifty quiz! I got Hagrid, Bill, Charlie, Ron and Dumbledore as my top 5 and as my bottom 5 (bottom up) I got Voldemort, Snape, Sirius, Percy, Minerva. Kimberly, who apparently has hippogryfs and dragons and three-headed dogs instead of two boring kitties. From drmm at fuuko.com Wed Jan 24 05:14:30 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:14:30 -0600 Subject: Japanese fanart Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010123231207.00a951b0@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10435 I've come across a *lovely* webpage with a ton of fanart. This is a Japanese fanart site, so not only is the text in Japanese (the links are still findable though), the characters are drawn anime-style. And on a random note, I'd just like to say how terribly droolable they make Snape. Now *this* is who they should hire to do the art . . . http://www.linkclub.or.jp/~zephyr/haripote/index/index.html DrMM *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Card Captor Sakura From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 24 05:27:19 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 22:27:19 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Whatever Creature We Deem (filk) In-Reply-To: <94lls9+4vdg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10436 Caius -- I am constantly amazed at the songs you produce -- you must be a real music maniac! We must get you to work on the Broadway musical version "HARRY!" or maybe... the soundtrack to "The Americanized Harry Potter movie script". Newcomers -- check out this hilarious spoof: http://members.home.com/tjlsmith/ahpsp.htm HARRY POTTER AND THE BIG GAME! Starring Matt Damon, Leonardo DiCaprio, Hulk Hogan, Cher, Britney Spears, and Bruce Willis as Professor Kenny. -----Original Message----- From: Caius Marcius [mailto:coriolan at worldnet.att.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:32 PM To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] Whatever Creature We Deem (filk) From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Jan 24 05:23:39 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:23:39 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] character quiz, #15 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10437 Just for grins I took the quiz again, selected "not sure" and "low" for every question except #15 and selected "yes" and "high" for question 15. This was the result: #1 Albus Dumbledore #2 Bill Weasley #3 Charlie Weasley #4 Draco Malfoy #5 Fred/George Weasley #6 Harry Potter #7 Hermione Granger #8 Minerva McGonagall #9 Neville Longbottom #10 Percy Weasley #11 Remus Lupin #12 Ron Weasley #13 Rubeus Hagrid #14 Severus Snape #15 Sirius Black #16 Voldemort Not much help. I think you're right, Heidi. It's probably "can you speak Parseltongue." Love & Light *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 05:26:02 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:26:02 -0000 Subject: Unicorn/Infant theory In-Reply-To: <20010124012617.15118.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94lp1a+a5i1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10438 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Teek wrote: > > But the theory gets shot down for the same reason the "Lily's > sacrifice" theory doesn't completely cover all the bases - V. has > killed hundreds of people before, and probably Harry isn't the first > baby or young child to get in the way. Maybe though, the catch point > is that V. set out specifically to kill Harry, and didn't just kill > without regards to who he was harming. No, see - that's the whole point to my theory - it *does* cover the part about Voldy killing so many people, because the unicorn thing is about killing the unicorn specifically to save yourself. If we believe (which I do at least for the purposes of this theory) that Voldemort wanted Harry dead because of some prophecy that he was going to defeat V., then Voldemort was trying to kill him specifically to save his own You-Know-What (the Unspeakable's unspeakables!), and *that* is the key element. If you kill something pure and defenseless specifically to save yourself, then you're up a creek, is what I think Firenze was saying. Ok, so I'm liking my theory more as I defend it. I still see that there are holes, but this was the main one I was trying to plug when I came up with the idea, and so far, I think it's standing up as well as any other theories I've tried. Kimberly, who really really is going to bed now From msl at fc.net Wed Jan 24 05:29:02 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long, Jr.) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 23:29:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Which character are you quiz... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10439 I took it twice, changing the answers slightly depending on my mood, and got: First Time Second Time Ron W. Harry P. Harry P. Ron W. Albus D. Hemione G. Hermione G. Albus D. with Snape coming in around 7th. Marvin Long Austin, Texas From john at walton.to Wed Jan 24 06:33:18 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:33:18 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re: Which character are you quiz... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10440 It's true! I AM the male Hermione! # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Remus Lupin # 3 Minerva McGonagall # 4 Albus Dumbledore # 5 Harry Potter And I'm apparently more like Snape (14) than Voldemort (15) or Malfoy (16). Dang. Oh, and I'm a Ravenclaw followed by Gryffindor. Hardly surprising... DrMM, if you created this, can you tell us which criteria translate to which characters? --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 06:49:01 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Chris ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:49:01 -0000 Subject: Have you been sorted yet?? Message-ID: <94ltst+q3be@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10441 For the newbees (I'm sure the established people got sorted already <:o)) Have you been sorted yet? The sorting hat is located here: http://harrypotterfans.com/games/sortinghat.htm I was kinda hoping for Ravenclaw but got Gryffindor. But- I'LL TAKE IT! I'LL TAKE IT! What did you get? Christy From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 08:36:39 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:36:39 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94lmu7+ci7k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94m46n+f2s9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10442 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > > Kimberly wrote: > > > > < to me > > as a possible explanation that wouldn't include something outside > of > > canon like Lily performing some special charm or Harry being > > super-baby. I don't know if it's true, but it is one theory I've > come > > up with.>> > > > > I think it makes perfect sense. I know that Harry has some big > powers, but Voldemort *was able to curse him in the end of book 4. So > whatever saved him from being killed then is gone now, and I think it > goes beyond Lily's love and protection. Plus, I think it sounds like > something JKR would do, giving a hint for future explanations. > > > > Rina > > giggling at the thought of Harry "Super Baby" Potter > It isn't necessarily gone now. Children seem to be able to use magic instinctively (albeit in an uncontrolled manner), whereas adults have to use wands and words. A theory I put in a fanfic was that Lily's dying for him kind of gave his survival instincts a wake-up call, and he did whatever it was he did to stop Voldemort's attack. And as I've said before, Harry cannot defeat Voldemort by the end of the series unless he's superpowered or very lucky. Keith From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Mon Jan 22 23:19:54 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (Ffion Miles) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 23:19:54 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP - The Movie O.S.T Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10443 Really? Robbie Williams is going to do the soundtrack? I'm not really sure about that, since there's nothing really about pop music or TV or anything in the Hogwarts world - which jsut sort of makes it timeless. Much as I adore Robbie completely, I really don't know if any songwords could really get into the spirit of HP - it's just too - modern and would make it dated - although maybe Robbie could sing the Sorting Hat song! Also, does anyone know if Robbie Coltraine is doing Hagrid in his own Scottish acent? That'd be weird since, having listened to HP read by Stephen Fry, he's made him sort of Cornish, which suits him. Ffion >From: "Dinah" >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com >To: >Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP - The Movie O.S.T >Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 21:29:13 +0100 > >While thinking about the movie one of my main concerns was always which >music they'd use fo it. Now I heard several times that Robbie Williams will >do the Soundtrack and just wanted to know what you think about it. > >The lyrics on his CD's are really good, so is his music, but I still wonder >how they will make it work. I'm sure they'll have one big song for the >movie to get a hit out of it. I can see a song dealing with being down and >having a bad life and then you discover that you can be a hero. I think >that would suit the spirit of the books. About strenght and courage and >believing in yourself. It's also a thing that Williams could do just great. > >Or are there any other songs already existent that you could think of being >great in the movie? Thought anyone? > > ~ Dinah ~ (As long as it's not Pokmon tralala, I'm happy) > >ICQ: 10 44 52 471 >YM: bludger_witch > >Madness takes it's toll; please have exact change > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Jan 24 10:59:37 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:59:37 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" References: <94kio3+dcs3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <012f01c085f5$1001a980$e22907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10444 >Ten hours later still, FF woke up again and all was silent, but for >the gentle cackling of the hags and the lapping of brine against >the sides of the boat. He looked around the starlit waters and felt >inner calm, but great sadness. There wasn't a ship in sight. >Neil LOL, that was really... something else . But that just shows the ardor of H/H devotion! It's just a shame that all the "I support H/H", "H/H forever", "H/H - True love never dies" buttons and posters sunk with the ship :-( As we all know, thw whole crew and we passangers magicked us out with an elegant wave of our wands and are now doing some stress-levitation in the Carribean, while you sit in your rowing boat, surrounded by hags....right? ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 06:49:06 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 06:49:06 Subject: Shipping Party Boats ... Anyone for a Cruise?/menage a trois Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10445 Susan wrote: >Has anyone suggested a menage a trois? > >All three move into together...both Harry and Ron are involved with >Hermione...in some circles Harry and Ron would also, uh, become >involved with each other? > >Is there any fan fic that discusses this? Actually, Rita has suggested it quite a few times. I have too in shipping posts, tongue-in-cheek. It seems like a nice resolution to the ship debate. Only two problems: 1) The R/Hers would never agree to it, and 2) we vocal H/Hers like to argue. All the current fan fic that deals with triads are primarily NC-17. Not too well written, either... why not try your hand at it, Susan? I'll beta. ;-) Speaking of H/R/H, fics that truly explore the prism of the Friendship are rare. I'd really like to see more post-Hogwarts fics along this line. One of the best I've read thus far (and it wasn't all that great stylistically) was about Harry and Ron being there for Hermione during the birth of her first child... they were in their late twenties or early thirties... she was married to someone outside of canon and either Ron or Harry was too. No romantic interest between any of the Three... extremely close friendship. She even named the child after one or both of them. I've thought out a cool scenario or two that would make the no-shippers happy... meaning Harry, Ron, and Hermione would all be involved with someone they meet in adult life or no one. I'd love to explore any future spouses' perspective of the Friendship. During Hogwarts... well, we have JKR for that. :-) --Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Jan 24 11:05:39 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:05:39 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013301c085f5$969060e0$e22907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10446 Huhuhuuuu! I was really afraid I was going to be... Neville or Voldie (strange combination, I know), but I am REMUS!!! Yup-di-dup-di-doooo! ~ Dinah ~ (who was Leia in the Star Wars personality test, because she thrived on the bitch-in-bad-mood factor ) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Jan 24 11:13:49 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:13:49 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <20010123.181133.-488439.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> Message-ID: <019701c085f6$ba8e2260$e22907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10447 Remus Lupin personality and in Gryffindor - this is just my day, isn't it!!! BTW, second on my list was Charlie, the Hagrid... Voldy was last. I think I'm a good girl after all. ~ Dinah ~ (who suddenly has a higher opinion of herself ) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 11:22:01 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:22:01 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94lff9+obe1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94mdsp+60e0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10448 > In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" > > I like this idea about the infant/unicorn business. However, Harry > > having no special abilities makes it unlikely he will be able to > > defend himself against, much less defeat, Voldemort in the near > > future --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > And I do think that Harry is a strong > wizard, probably quite a bit above average, but I don't think he > is 'other'. > Does that make any sense? I don't think he's a super-wizard, or has > powers that are beyond those of other great wizards we've seen like > Dumbledore or Voldemort. > > I'm still thinking on that part though. I have lots of thoughts in my > head that might help explain things without Harry having powers beyond > that of wizards in general, you're forgetting his friends. Everything Harry has done in fighting evil, he has done with the help of his friends. That's one of the more prominent messages of the books; to rely on friends. I suspect it will be the combined talents of Harry, Hermione and Ron (plus any random others) who will ultimately defeat Voldemort, as it has always been in the books so far. Dai From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Wed Jan 24 11:21:38 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:21:38 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" and Swift analogy References: Message-ID: <01ad01c085f7$d1f0a800$e22907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10449 > Our Unsinkable Molly Brown? > If this were the movie version of events, who are Rose and Jack? > I like being a recruiter myself. ;-) > --Ebony Weeell, Rose and jack are of course the Shippin pairings of the ships choice. And I'm afraid I could be the Unsinkable Molly - I sure have the stature and the state of mind for it. And I think I can always find a reason for H/H, so that's "unsinkable" too . ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From s_ings at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 11:25:16 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 03:25:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <20010124112516.83739.qmail@web218.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10450 --- Isabelle Centeno wrote: > Mine is quite bizarre, actually, here it is. A > question, though: Am I > the only whose computer decided not to show question > number 15? > No, my computer didn't show # 15, either. My results? Very strange. 1. Dumbledore 2. Hagrid 3. Bill 4. Charlie 5. Harry 6. Lupin 7. Ron 8. Hermione 9. Neville 10. Sirius 11. Snape 12. Fred/George 13. McGonagall 14. Draco 15. Percy 16. Voldemort As I said, very strange. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From imccoy at goconnect.net Wed Jan 24 11:42:30 2001 From: imccoy at goconnect.net (imccoy at goconnect.net) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:42:30 -0000 Subject: Contest.... In-Reply-To: <012101c00ecb$a0638300$fedd5d18@neo.rr.com> Message-ID: <94mf36+q1f8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10451 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Denise" wrote: > Why must the rules state under 18, sighs? It's discrimination~! It's a breath of fresh air for those of us who are usually hit by ageism - i get an evil little vengeful gloriness in the knowledge that there is some age description putting kids over adults. Then again i'm australian which wipes me out from most, if not all, HP competitions. Thank goodness for the internet! From allyson at ptd.net Wed Jan 24 11:36:11 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:36:11 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Quiz results! References: Message-ID: <01e501c085fb$cf7041e0$6ea6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10452 House selector! http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat Your Results Page # 1 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring # 2 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 3 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal # 4 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian This didn't surprise me at all!!!!!!!! When I submit trivia questions to Scholastic's page for HP Wizard Trivia, I always put myself in either Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw!!!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From allyson at ptd.net Wed Jan 24 11:36:35 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:36:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise References: <94j15l+5eq0@eGroups.com> <004b01c085ac$a89e7540$1d690f3f@satellite> Message-ID: <01e601c085fb$d0e92640$6ea6bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10453 Yes they do. That is where I got mine! ----- Original Message ----- From: ender_w To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2001 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise Does Hallmark have the pens too? Ender ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Trina " wrote: > > Try the Hallmark stores. They have variety of HP stickers. > > > > I just went to my regular Hallmark and yes, they do have stickers. > Apparently they just got them in. So now I have my stickers. Also, > they had a sale going on, all HP merchandise half off. I don't know if > all the stores are doing that, but you might want to check. > > Thena > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 12:44:08 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:44:08 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Favorite Scene for HP Movie References: <20010123.061520.-523443.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> <3A6DCAE1.B7F91310@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10454 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski In no particular order: Snape and Lockhart's duel I've seen a priceless drawing of that one in "The Encyclopaedia Potterica". here's the link: http://www.geocities.com/potterica/images/dueling_practice.html yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 13:09:31 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:09:31 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) From the teacher's desk... References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10455 ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny Linsenmayer > > I, too, have had the same problem. I've been using British > > spellings, punctuation, and grammar since I learned to read >and write. However, *I* won the arguments with teachers. (I was >*so* Hermione). Lucky you. I still remember bitterly contesting the loss of a 4th grade spelling bee because I spelled it "honour" instead of "honor." I insisted that both spellings were correct, but I lost the argument. Obviously, I was bitter about it since I can still remember it to this day. I guess it's because I wasn't outwardly Hermione enough. Penny I read this thread with growing annoyance Stop moaning! I'm dyslectic, and English is not my first language, and in the only English spelling test i still remember (suppressed the rest), i got *one* word correct out of 20. That word, btw, was 'black'. :) yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 13:13:58 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 05:13:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: Which Character Are You Quiz... Message-ID: <20010124131358.23370.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10456 > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. > > # 1 Severus Snape > # 2 Draco Malfoy > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Voldemort > # 5 Hermione Granger > 1. Ron Weasley 2. Hermoine Granger 3. Harry Potter 4. Rubeus Hagrid 5. Draco Malfoy I always knew I was most like Ron Weasley. From, Anake ===== ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ THE George Orwell Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thegeorgeorwellclub ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 13:14:24 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:14:24 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Live Dragons/Sleeping Dragons References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10457 ----- Original Message ----- From: John Walton I found out an interesting Fact today (yep, it was interesting enough to merit a Capital Letter!). I have a feeling that "Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus" (Never tickle sleeping dragons) is a direct prod at The Hobbit: in Chapter 12, there's a quote: "Never laugh at live dragons". Could (a) someone translate that into Latin and (b) someone with a Hobbit to hand (doesn't THAT sound dodgy?) provide a bit of context? A couple of quoted paragraphs would be fantastic. Cheers, --John I always though that came from the Chinese saying "Never wake a sleeping dragon" (or something very similar) There's an almost identical saying in Hebrew. yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 13:30:06 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:30:06 -0000 Subject: HP - The Movie O.S.T In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94mlcu+iduo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10458 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ffion Miles" wrote: "Really? Robbie Williams is going to do the soundtrack? I'm not really sure about that, since there's nothing really about pop music or TV or anything in the Hogwarts world - which jsut sort of makes it timeless. Much as I adore Robbie completely, I really don't know if any songwords could really get into the spirit of HP - it's just too - modern and would make it dated - although maybe Robbie could sing the Sorting Hat song!" As far as I know John Williams is doing the soundtrack. Maybe Robbie Williams [I don't know him] is doing songs for it. Studios feel compelled to plug in inane pop songs that will get airplay, and in the US at least, radio formats are very narrow. Nothing different at all gets played. I agree completely about the timeless and other-world nature of the Hogwarts world, but I doubt Warner Brothers cares much about what fits this material. Ffion: "Also, does anyone know if Robbie Coltraine is doing Hagrid in his own Scottish acent? That'd be weird since, having listened to HP read by Stephen Fry, he's made him sort of Cornish, which suits him." Help us Yanks out here. I read some time ago in a posting that Stephen Fry did Hagrid in a "Dorset accent." Is that similar to a Cornish accent? I wish you could hear Jim Dale's Hagrid and compare them. (It's be nice to get permission from Bloomsbury to post a couple of minutes of Fry to the Files section in MP3, and likewise from Scholastic for Dale, especially of the same passage) From Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 01:38:42 2001 From: Aberforths_Goat at Yahoo.com (Aberforth's Goat) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:38:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l9gg+jkch@eGroups.com> <3A6E35D8.5BFF8FAE@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <005e01c0866f$91f1ab00$5e00a8c0@cablecom.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10459 And *I'm* feeling rather proud of myself ... a mixture of Harry and Bill, with a little Ron, Charlie and Albus thrown in for good measure. Interpretation: a talent hunk with a sense of humor, an outdoorsy lifestyle, a major-league intellect and a heart of gold. My wife'll fall in love with me all over again ... (And if I'd skip a few meals and let my hair get dirty, I'll bet I could raise that dumbfoundingly low Sirius quotient, too.) (Or is the point that I'm as emotionally connected as Harry, make dumb jokes like Ron, smell like Charlie when he gets home from dragon chasing, am as eccentric as Dumbledore--and Bill Weasley was a system error? ) # 1 Harry Potter # 2 Bill Weasley # 3 Ron Weasley # 4 Charlie Weasley # 5 Albus Dumbledore # 6 Remus Lupin # 7 Hermione Granger # 8 Rubeus Hagrid # 9 Fred/George Weasley # 10 Draco Malfoy # 11 Percy Weasley # 12 Minerva McGonagall # 13 Neville Longbottom # 14 Severus Snape # 15 Sirius Black # 16 Voldemort Baaaaaa! Aberforth's Goat (a.k.a. Mike Gray) _______________________ "My own brother, Aberforth, was prosecuted for practising inappropriate charms on a goat. It was all over the papers, but did Aberforth hide? No he did not! He held his head high." From bkdelong at pobox.com Wed Jan 24 13:38:22 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:38:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP - The Movie O.S.T In-Reply-To: <94mlcu+iduo@eGroups.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.2.20010124083635.058886c0@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10460 At 01:30 PM 01/24/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Help us Yanks out here. I read some time ago in a posting that >Stephen Fry did Hagrid in a "Dorset accent." Is that similar to a >Cornish accent? I wish you could hear Jim Dale's Hagrid and compare >them. (It's be nice to get permission from Bloomsbury to post a couple >of minutes of Fry to the Files section in MP3, and likewise from >Scholastic for Dale, especially of the same passage) I listened to Fry on Boxing Day over the Internet and I think Jim Dale did a much better job creating distinct individual voices for each and every character including tones, accents, and mannerisms....I hope the cast of the movie listened to his version, he really did a good job at developing the characters personas. From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 13:49:34 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:49:34 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10461 # 1 Remus Lupin # 2 Hermione Granger # 3 Rubeus Hagrid # 4 Charlie Weasley # 5 Albus Dumbledore # 6 Harry Potter # 7 Neville Longbottom # 8 Bill Weasley # 9 Minerva McGonagall # 10 Ron Weasley My god, talk about indecision. No consistency what so ever. I was immensely surprised by #1: Lupin. Didn't think of myself as a male werewolf :) yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 14:19:29 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:19:29 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <20010123.181133.-488439.0.hermionegranger.gryffindor@juno.com> <3A6E4EAE.F54FFB1E@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10462 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:40 AM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . I'm Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, Slytherin. I feel an affinity for Ravenclaw, but I'll take Gryffindor, I suppose. I had the same order, and felt incredibly flattered for it :) Also, now i can answer 'yes' to the houses question on the obsession quiz, which increases my score to 29% (one more and i'm officially obsessed) yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msl at fc.net Wed Jan 24 14:30:37 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long, Jr.) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 08:30:37 -0600 (CST) Subject: Have you been sorted yet Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10463 Lessee here, I tried it a bunch of times and got: Ravenclaw, Slytherin, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, Gryffindor... Marvin Long Austin, Texas From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 14:39:55 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:39:55 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] re: Which character are you quiz... References: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10464 Ok, you raised my interest. I checked #15. It has absolutely no effect on the results. Marked everything 'not sure' and then marked it all 3 options, and came up with the same results every time. Out of curiosity, i had other questions marked as a solo 'yes'. most interesting was when i marked 'Do other people find you intimidating?' as a single 'yes'. Voldie came in third after McGonagall and Snape. Lol! yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 24 14:59:51 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:59:51 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Have you been sorted yet?? Message-ID: <01c08616$4d783560$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10465 >Have you been sorted yet? >The sorting hat is located here: > >http://harrypotterfans.com/games/sortinghat.htm What an obstinate little hat, placed me in Hufflepuff five times out of six! If Draco Malfoy was in my place, he'd blow the school out and tell his dad to take him to Durmstrang *immediately*! Does it put peole to Slytherin at all, BTW? Monika From melssa99 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 14:53:26 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:53:26 -0500 Subject: Lily and James Potter's houses Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10466 I was wondering what houses Lily and james were in at Hogwarts. I just assumed they were in Gryffindor, but they were also friends with Sirius, whom every wizards thinks is in with V. In SS/PS Hagrid says that "There's not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin." Could this mean that Sirius was in Slytherin and that very likely James was too? If so, could this be one of the reasons why V. wanted to destroy the Potters, because they wouldn't joing him? Just wondering. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 24 15:08:36 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 07:08:36 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Have you been sorted yet?? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10467 ** What did you get? ** ** Christy ** For the sorting I got: Gryffindor Ravenclaw Hufflepuff Slytherin And for the character quiz: #1 Hermione Granger #2 Albus Dumbledore #3 Ron Weasley #4 Rubeus Hagrid #5 Bill Weasley With Sirius Black coming in last at #16. I was pretty happy about both sets of results until my husband turned out to be Slytherin... Meredith From msl at fc.net Wed Jan 24 15:19:31 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long, Jr.) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:19:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: Quiz results! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10468 > Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 06:36:11 -0500 > From: "Allyson" > Subject: Re: Quiz results! > House selector! > http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat Ah, a sorting hat with a quiz attached! It seems only fair to answer it twice...once based on who I'd like to be, and once based (a bit more cynically) on who I actually tend to be: 1. optimistic Ravenclaw, Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Slytherin 2. realistic Ravenclaw, Slytherin, Hufflepuff, Gryffindor Hm! Marvin Long Austin, Texas From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 24 16:38:03 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 24 Jan 2001 08:38:03 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Question #15 Message-ID: <20010124163803.10231.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10469 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com Wed Jan 24 16:39:20 2001 From: gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com (tammy ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:39:20 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94n0fo+lca7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10470 Wow... this is a bit scary... here are my results: # 1 Ron Weasley # 2 Draco Malfoy # 3 Hermione Granger # 4 Neville Longbottom # 5 Rubeus Hagrid # 6 Bill Weasley # 7 Charlie Weasley # 8 Harry Potter # 9 Remus Lupin # 10 Severus Snape # 11 Albus Dumbledore # 12 Fred/George Weasley # 13 Sirius Black # 14 Percy Weasley # 15 Voldemort # 16 Minerva McGonagall I agree with my being somewhat like Ron... but DRACO MALFOY??? And to see that I'm more like Neville than Hagrid? Great quiz - that was fun!!! ~tammy~ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 24 16:46:24 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 24 Jan 2001 08:46:24 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" Molly Brown Message-ID: <20010124164624.10272.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10471 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 16:55:14 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:55:14 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94mdsp+60e0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94n1di+7jie@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10472 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > > you're forgetting his friends. Everything Harry has done in fighting > evil, he has done with the help of his friends. That's one of the > more prominent messages of the books; to rely on friends. I suspect > it will be the combined talents of Harry, Hermione and Ron (plus any > random others) who will ultimately defeat Voldemort, as it has always > been in the books so far. > > Dai, You're really getting in my head here! That's one of the main things that I think the superharry theory overlooks. When I was trying unsuccessfully to put together my thoughts last night that's one of the things I was focusing on. In most of the major crises in the books a group effort was involved in the resolution. examples: With the troll - Harry jumped on his back and Ron charmed the club. In the forest when Harry fist encountered Quirrell/Voldemort - Firenze and Hagrid helped Harry escape. 'Through the trapdoor' - The trio worked together to get through the obstacles, Harry faced Voldemort, and Dumbledore pulled him out. The chamber - Ron and Harry had help from the prostrate Hermione for the clue and from Moaning Myrtle to find the opening. Harry had help from Dumbledore and Fawkes and from Godric Gryffindor himself while inside the chamber with Riddle. Harry gets by with a little help from his friends, his mentors, and even in some ways the universe in general. But even if I didn't agree with Dai on that one, if the key themes I see in the books are what were really intended I'd say the superharry theory can't be right. The two themes that have stood out to me most in Harryland I have taken from the mouth of Dumbeldore: The first was when he explained to Harry in CoS that it was his choices that make him who he is, and not his potential. The second is at the end of PS/SS when Harry is upset because while he kept Voldemort from getting the stone he knew V would come back. Dumbledore said: "Nevertheless, Harry, while you may only have delated his return to power, it will merely take someone else who is prepared to fight what seems a loosing battle next time - and if he is delayed again, and again, why, he may never return to power." To me this says that it's the act of standing up against evil that is key, not necessarily being stronger than the evil in question. If, as I think, these are two of the important themes in the books, then I'd say the superharry theory would be counterproductive. Then there's one other thing. I think some people are forgetting the thing that stands out to me most about Voldemort - hubris, which in the end I think will be a major contributor to his downfall. Ok all of the above is kind of rambly and may be hard to decipher like my first post on the subject, so let me try to summarize in case it didn't make any sense. -I think first off that the SuperHarry theory goes against the major themes of the book and therefore must not be correct. -I think also that Voldemort will be defeated by a combination of Harry's power, will, strengths and talents, the power, will, strengths and talents of all the others who choose to stand against evil, and Voldemort's own vanity. Does it make any sense? kimberly From gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com Wed Jan 24 17:00:55 2001 From: gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com (tammy ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:00:55 -0000 Subject: Was it Just Me? Message-ID: <94n1o7+878s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10473 Was anyone else surprised at the pronunciation of Hermione's name? I'm humbled to admit that I've been pronouncing it the same way as Krum... "Hermy-own"!! It was a real wake-up call to me when she was attempting to teach Krum to pronounce her name correctly! Now I've just gotta do the same! BTW - I'm a newbie here - my name is Tammy, I'm a mom from Delaware, and admit that I originally bought the HP books for my 9-year old son. But after I read the first one, I ended up hooked on them!! I'm now halfway through the "Goblet of Fire" and am really looking forward to being a part of the discussions here!! And a funny side, my youngest son's name is "Griffin" (I named him before I had read the books!) But now I wish I had spelled it "Gryffin"!! I just bought him a cute Gryffindor t-shirt!! ~tammy~ "Gryffin's Mum" From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 17:02:40 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:02:40 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" In-Reply-To: <012f01c085f5$1001a980$e22907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94n1rg+pegu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10474 Dinah wrote about Neil's Titanic story: > LOL, that was really... something else . > > But that just shows the ardor of H/H devotion! It's just a shame that all > the "I support H/H", "H/H forever", "H/H - True love never dies" buttons and > posters sunk with the ship :-( > Never fear, Dinah dear... Yesterday I peeked into the H/H spin factory... and beheld a legion of House-Elves (fully unionized, of course) magicking up plenty more. :-) --Ebony AKA AngieJ (reporting live from the shipyard, where the new and improved SS H/H is being constructed... this time with plenty of lifeboats!) From lmrourke at snet.net Wed Jan 24 17:21:27 2001 From: lmrourke at snet.net (Lisa Rourke) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:21:27 -0500 Subject: which Character and House are you quizzes Message-ID: <001401c0862a$191aa960$9a1e3ccc@krass> No: HPFGUIDX 10475 LOL My top 5 are: 1) Rubeus Hagrid 2) Dumbledore 3) Charlie Weasley (?) 4) Ron Weasley 5) Harry Potter And my House was Hufflepuff. No surprise there. I always knew I was an ol' duffer! I was kinda surprised about Hagrid being my # 1 but now that I think about it...I guess it does suit me pretty well :-) and I definitely liked having Dumbledore 2nd. Lisa Rourke [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From randujar at wellesley.edu Wed Jan 24 17:39:13 2001 From: randujar at wellesley.edu (Rosa M. Andujar) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:39:13 -0500 Subject: ravenclaws and classes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10476 Have any of you ever wondered why Gryffindors never have any classes with the Ravenclaws? Yes, there are several classes that they take by themselves (History of Magic, Defense against the Dark Arts), but at the same time, they have Potions and Care of Magical Creatures with the Slytherins and Herbology with the Hufflepuffs. What about the Ravenclaws? Also, all Hogwarts students had to choose between Arithmancy, Ancient Runes, Muggle Studies, Divination, and Care of Magical Creatures at the end of their second year. We know that Ron and Harry picked the same courses, Divination and Care of Magical Creatures. Well, it seems as if all the other Gryffindors in their year (Lavender, Parvati, Seamus, Dean, and Neville) also picked the same ones. Of course, Hermione is the only exception to all of this, as she opted to take them all during 3rd year. Assuming that each student could only add two courses, does that mean that Hermione was the only Gryffindor in Arithmancy, Ancient Runes, and Muggle Studies during her third year? Thoughts? -Rosa From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 17:46:01 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 09:46:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: Which House are You In? Message-ID: <20010124174601.19024.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10477 These are my results: # 1 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 2 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal # 3 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian # 4 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring From, Anake ===== ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ THE George Orwell Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thegeorgeorwellclub ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 17:51:26 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:51:26 -0600 Subject: Accents References: Message-ID: <3A6F161E.909EBAB4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10478 Ffion Miles wrote: > Also, does anyone know if Robbie Coltraine is doing Hagrid in his own > Scottish acent? That'd be weird since, having listened to HP read by > Stephen Fry, he's made him sort of Cornish, which suits him. I know I'm immediately going to be jumped on by Americans who *can* hear the difference, but most of the people I know, of the non-globe-trotting variety, know when someone has an accent, and they can tell a Spanish from an Italian from a Russian, etc. But they can and do confuse Australian with British, unless some big hints are in there ("barbie," "sheila," etc.). Shades of accent within Britain are not something the majority of the American audience will pick up. Hell, shades of accent within America are not something they often pick up, unless they are accompanied by similar foot-stompers [I've been accused of flatly lying about being from Texas because I don't sound like it, until I say "y'all"]. Most people can't tell a Virginia southern accent from a New Orleans. However, since the movie's being planned for double release--meaning it's aimed just as much at a British audience as an American--mayhap the studio is paying attention to such little details. --Amanda, who was absolutely amazed to see *subtitles* on one of the hourly news shows like Hard Copy or something, when they interviewed the mom of the toddler those two ten-year-olds killed! I know they routinely re-record the voiceovers for Teletubbies so we poor degenerates can understand it, but *subtitles*? From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Jan 24 17:50:43 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:50:43 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94lf6a+4abq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002301c0862e$3368d5e0$6e51d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10479 > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > > character would you be," quizzes. > Ok, well figured I may as well see what my results are: # 1 Bill Weasley # 2 Albus Dumbledore # 3 Charlie Weasley . . . # 16 Sirius Black Which actually makes sense and I'm quite pleased with. Of all the characters I think I feel most like Bill Weasely. Responsible, but slightly unconventional, with a sense of humor. Hopefully some would describe me as "cool" that is my main goal in life after all. With AD being second and the dragon keeper third...very cool. Sirius was at the bottom of my list...which, while he is my favorite character, I don't think I am remotely like him. So does this mean I need to write some slash fanfic between Bill and Sirius? Hmmmmm carole From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 17:53:33 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 11:53:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Japanese fanart References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010123231207.00a951b0@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <3A6F169D.82C6369D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10480 DrMM wrote: > I've come across a *lovely* webpage with a ton of fanart. This is a > Japanese fanart site, so not only is the text in Japanese (the links are > still findable though), Please elaborate on the findability; I'm reluctant to go pressing random mystery buttons until I hit paydirt. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 24 18:08:20 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:08:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Was it Just Me? References: <94n1o7+878s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F1A14.117AB0F2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10481 tammy wrote: > Was anyone else surprised at the pronunciation of Hermione's name? > I'm humbled to admit that I've been pronouncing it the same way as > Krum... "Hermy-own"!! It's a classical name, but not common name in America; I don't know about across the pond. About the only place you're likely to come across it in modern experience is if you studied Shakespeare, so your confusion is understandable. We all do this sort of thing. My own mental pronunciation of epitome was "EH-pi-tome" for years until I heard it spoken, and I have a fairly well-educated friend who persists in calling the constellation "Cass-e-O-pe-uh" instead of "Cass-e-o-PAY-uh." --Uh-MAN-duh From dedorman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 24 18:18:44 2001 From: dedorman at earthlink.net (Erin Dorman) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:18:44 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Japanese fanart In-Reply-To: <3A6F169D.82C6369D@texas.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010123231207.00a951b0@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010124121800.009f6ec0@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10482 This site is amazing. Whoever did this work is very talented and has a great minds' eye of how the characters look. In my opinion, anyway. Erin At 11:53 AM 1/24/01 -0600, you wrote: >DrMM wrote: > > > I've come across a *lovely* webpage with a ton of fanart. This is a > > Japanese fanart site, so not only is the text in Japanese (the links are > > still findable though), > >Please elaborate on the findability; I'm reluctant to go pressing random >mystery buttons until I hit paydirt. > >--Amanda *|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|* Erin and Doug Dorman ttc#1 c2 cd15 1dpo?? http://home.earthlink.net/~dedorman http://www.lifecyclesoft.com/cgi-bin/chart.pl/r5qdt God allows us to experience the low points of life in order to teach us lessons we could not learn in any other way. - C.S. Lewis *|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|* From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 24 18:35:42 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:35:42 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" In-Reply-To: <94n1rg+pegu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94n79u+mepf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10483 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ebonyink at h... wrote: > --Ebony AKA AngieJ (reporting live from the shipyard, where the > new and improved SS H/H is being constructed... this time with > plenty of lifeboats!) Plenty of lifeboats! So you admit your ship won't be unsinkable...well don't worry, if the worst happens, the SS Mary Sue will be by and pick you all up (though I bet some of you would prefer to drown) (Newbie note: a Mary Sue is an original character in a fanfiction who has a romantic relationship with a canonical character. ) Pippin From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 24 18:39:34 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:39:34 -0600 Subject: Character & Sorting Hat Quiz Results Message-ID: <3A6F2166.A4BD2677@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10484 Hi all -- Well, will it be any surprise to anyone that one of your list moms has the following Top 5: #1 -- Albus Dumbledore #2 -- Hermione Granger #3 -- Percy Weasley #4 -- Minerva McGonagall #5 -- Rubeus Hagrid I was surprised to see Dumbledore rather than Hermione as my #1, but not unpleased (especially since Hermione is still quite high). I'm not exactly sure what responses triggered these results, but I'm pretty pleased. I've always posted defenses of both Percy & McGonagall too ... so that's no surprise. Lowest on my list were Sirius, Snape, Voldemort & Draco. I should get my husband to take it & see if Draco is his #1. Sorting Hat put me in Ravenclaw, then Hufflepuff. I always got put in Hufflepuff under the Myers/Briggs stuff we did last year, but I've always thought I belonged more in Ravenclaw. Fun! Penny From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 24 18:45:18 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:45:18 -0000 Subject: Japanese fanart In-Reply-To: <3A6F169D.82C6369D@texas.net> Message-ID: <94n7ru+o776@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10485 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > DrMM wrote: > > > I've come across a *lovely* webpage with a ton of fanart. This is a > > Japanese fanart site, so not only is the text in Japanese (the links are > > still findable though), > > Please elaborate on the findability; I'm reluctant to go pressing random > mystery buttons until I hit paydirt. > > --Amanda Click on =work= at the bottom of the screen. The next page will have a menu bar on the left with a lot of symbols. If you put your cursor on a symbol you will see the link address on your screen which includes roman characters giving the name of the subject of the artwork. Click to see the art. Pippin From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 24 18:49:34 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:49:34 -0000 Subject: prop on sale at ebay Message-ID: <94n83u+um9p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10486 Not just any prop - this is purporting to be the first letter to harry: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1404862608 From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Jan 24 19:15:47 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:15:47 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Japanese fanart References: <4.3.2.7.0.20010123231207.00a951b0@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <3A6F29E1.736732F5@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 10487 Wow, yes, they are nice - my only nit is that they're not always canon-accurate (Hermione's hair being blond in a few pics, Lee Jordan with short hair instead of dreadlocks...). Very cool, though. And to whoever couldn't find the images, at the bottom there's a frame with the links in English. Click on 'Works'. ~Firebolt DrMM wrote: > I've come across a *lovely* webpage with a ton of fanart. This is a > Japanese fanart site, so not only is the text in Japanese (the links are > still findable though), the characters are drawn anime-style. > > And on a random note, I'd just like to say how terribly droolable they make > Snape. Now *this* is who they should hire to do the art . . . > > http://www.linkclub.or.jp/~zephyr/haripote/index/index.html > > DrMM > *~*~*~*~*~* > DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com > http://www.fuuko.com > ICQ: #9689360 > Most recent anime: Card Captor Sakura > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com Wed Jan 24 19:18:56 2001 From: gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com (tammy ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:18:56 -0000 Subject: prop on sale at ebay In-Reply-To: <94n83u+um9p@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94n9r0+pjb9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10488 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi.h.tandy.c92 at a... wrote: > Not just any prop - this is purporting to be the first letter to > harry: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1404862608 Wow! A bit pricey for me to bid on!!! But very cool, nonetheless! ~tammy~ From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 19:21:41 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:21:41 -0000 Subject: Accents In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94na05+b6ak@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10489 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ffion Miles" wrote: > Also, does anyone know if Robbie Coltraine is doing Hagrid in his own > Scottish acent? That'd be weird since, having listened to HP read by > Stephen Fry, he's made him sort of Cornish, which suits him. The first time I read PS (seems like along time ago, even if it only was in July) I immediately pictured of Coltrane as Hagrid with his scottish accent (that's how his speech read in my mind) and so was dead chuffed when they announced Coltrane would be doing the honours in the film. Also, in the Stephen Fry reading (which I thought was excellent, even if I didn't agree on Hagrids voice) I thought Fry gave Hagrid more of a Somerset accent than a Devonian/Cornish one; the stereotypical farmer (with 'is combine 'arvester, ooo arrrr). Dai From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 24 19:28:01 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:28:01 -0400 Subject: Which characters I ... Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE91@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10490 Well, looks like I'm the first one to resemble Hagrid the most! # 1 Rubeus Hagrid # 2 Remus Lupin # 3 Albus Dumbledore # 4 Charlie Weasley # 5 Hermione Granger # 6 Minerva McGonagall # 7 Harry Potter # 8 Bill Weasley # 9 Neville Longbottom # 10 Severus Snape # 11 Ron Weasley # 12 Sirius Black # 13 Fred/George Weasley # 14 Percy Weasley # 15 Voldemort # 16 Draco Malfoy I am relieved that Percy, Voldy, and Draco are all at the bottom! And I would be a Ravenclaw. Huh. # 1 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 2 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian # 3 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal # 4 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring From gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com Wed Jan 24 19:34:29 2001 From: gryffindor at kiwi-graphics.com (tammy ) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:34:29 -0000 Subject: Japanese fanart In-Reply-To: <3A6F29E1.736732F5@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <94nao5+5np8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10491 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Firebolt wrote: > Wow, yes, they are nice - my only nit is that they're not always canon-accurate > (Hermione's hair being blond in a few pics, Lee Jordan with short hair instead > of dreadlocks...). Very cool, though. Those pics are INCREDIBLE!!!!!! So many people around the world appreciate the books/characters in so many different ways... I hope the film does justice to the visuals we've all developed in our minds... ~tammy~ From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 19:46:09 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:46:09 -0000 Subject: ravenclaws and classes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94nbe1+opam@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10492 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rosa M. Andujar" wrote: > > Have any of you ever wondered why Gryffindors never have any classes with > the Ravenclaws? Yes, there are several classes that they take by > themselves (History of Magic, Defense against the Dark Arts), but at the > same time, they have Potions and Care of Magical Creatures with the > Slytherins and Herbology with the Hufflepuffs. What about the Ravenclaws? Some people have suggested that they would have Astronomy, the class we never see, with the Ravenclaws, but this is just speculation. Of course, Hermione is the only > exception to all of this, as she opted to take them all during 3rd year. > Assuming that each student could only add two courses, does that mean that > Hermione was the only Gryffindor in Arithmancy, Ancient Runes, and Muggle > Studies during her third year? > > Yes, these are awfully suspicious course selections. I guess JKR didn't want to have to characterize more students for those classes. I would guess then that you'd be correct in your supposition that Hermione was the only Griff taking these classes. Or maybe there is some leeway there, if all of the Griffs are not specifically mentioned by name when talking about the electives. I always wanted to know what the other classes were like, as someone who likes the school story aspect of HP. Charmian (On the quiz 1. Dumbledore 2. Snape 3. Bill W. 4. Charley W. 5. Draco. What the heck?) From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 24 19:37:13 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 13:37:13 -0600 Subject: The Kiss, Party Boats and the like References: Message-ID: <3A6F2EE9.53D2E456@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10493 Hi -- Ebony Elizabeth Thomas wrote: > No shipper here has ever argued that the kiss was significant. The R/Hers > certainly haven't. The H/Hers laugh about it and wonder what Hermione was > thinking, but the archived posts show that for the most part we agree with > you! Susan responded: > My memory is that folks were arguing that the kiss WAS significant > and used the argument that the 14 year olds that they knew thought > it was significant. > While I haven't argued that it was wildly significant, I do think it plays into the mix. And, honestly the opinions of all those 14 yr olds that we heard about made me more convinced over time that it might be more significant than I first thought. I've laughingly admitted that I'll put my money on Ebony's 8th grade students & Cassie's 14 yr old cousins & Heather's younger sister. *They* all think it's significant. I think they *could* be right. I think I have put more stock in it than some other H/H'ers, including Ebony. Time will tell.... > Penny in the past has teased the R/Hers by saying "that's 1 in the H/H column, > 0 in the R/H", but she even has admitted that it doesn't necessarily have deep > significance. I am *joking* about that one! (hopefully no hard feelings from that teasing remark) PARTY BOATS -- First -- the H/H ship should be renamed the Party Ship H/H or something else more positive. It can be the Cruiseline H/H. But, I don't think it should be called a battleship or a destroyer. Gads! Like Kathy, I find that sort of comparison to be quite disturbing (and quite different from my original conception of 2 "party boats" (cruise lines) sailing away on the HP waters). And, despite Neil's very entertaining parody on the Titanic -- the Cruiseline H/H has *not* been sunk! Maybe Neil's dream was all foggy, and it was actually the Good Ship R/H that sank. After all, I (captain of H/H ship) am unlikely to be pregnant if the Cruiseline H/H sinks in the future. Since the Captain was clearly pregnant in FFA's dream, I maintain, it cannot have been the H/H Ship. :--) And, FFA has made no provision in his "captain rescue" scenario for the Captain's husband. The Captain maintains she wouldn't have been sailing in her condition without her husband. Kathy wrote: > I know it's all in jest, but tell me, why is it that H/H-ers seem to see > themselves as missionaries of some sort? I hope you know I'm not picking > on you, Ebony, or anyone in particular for that matter, but it just seems to > me that the H/H crowd often manifests an almost manic to convert others. > (Almost like they're trying to convince themselves of the rightness of their > position...(;, sorry, couldn't resist throwing that in!). But seriously, I > have corresponded with several other R/H-ers off-list who have told me they > wouldn't participate in the shipper debates on this list because they > perceived the H/H-ers here as being, well, let's just say too vehement. > Obviously, I don't really agree, since I get into it with y'all on a > regular basis :), but I can't help but notice that the R/H ranks have gotten > quieter around here, even though the number of R/H-ers (at least according to the > poll) hasn't gone down. > Well, that's why *I've* been trying to make it more obviously light-hearted & humorous. Like Ebony said, we all have lives other than matchmaking fictional characters ... it's not like we H/H types live & breathe this sort of thing. Most of us do have lives, spouses/significant others, kids, jobs, other hobbies .... And, as Ebony also said: This ain't the navy. We have no draft. We're just interested in other people hearing what we have to say -- if we happen to land a few converts in the process, then great. But, the goal is more to say: "Hey, there's more than one side to this issue." Speaking for myself, I don't really have an agenda that I'm trying to "convert" anyone. I do like to be upfront about what the H/H position is. And, I'm happy if what we H/H'ers have said convinces someone ... if they say, "You know I never thought of it like that -- that makes sense," then I'm happy. But, I don't have an agenda of any sort. And ... I'm a *lawyer* by nature (even if I'm not practicing much anymore). A good lawyer *always* has a counter-argument of some sort, and I tend to be enough of a lawyer that I do enjoy throwing a monkey wrench in every now & then. Right, Heidi?!! If that gets mistaken for "overly vehement," then well ... sorry but that's just the lawyer coming out. :--) Since Kathy posed a question about our side, can I likewise ask a question about the R/H philosophy? My perception (could be wrong admittedly) is that the R/H types seem to be defensive. I always get the impression that it's shocking & bordering on sacrilege to even "suggest" that there might be the slightest possibility that Hermione doesn't like Ron back (or that they might not last if they do get together). Is this just a misimpression on my part? (honestly curious ...) Ebony said: > I think I've become one of the most vocal around these parts, but I don't have two horns growing out of my head. Most of > what I post in the ship wars is tongue-in-cheek and is very indicative of > my Type-A, quick to speak and react personality. > This describes me too (including the lack of 2 horns growing out of my head). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Wed Jan 24 19:53:26 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:53:26 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which characters I ... Message-ID: <4e.108fb804.27a08cb6@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10494 It's been a while since I took the "which house" quiz, so I took it again. Got the same results I always do: #1 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring #2 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian #3 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual #4 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ara_kel at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 19:56:03 2001 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (Sarah Rettger) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:56:03 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94nc0j+68g7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10495 Three out of the top four don't surprise me, but ... Dumbledore? I've definitely never associated myself with him. # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Albus Dumbledore # 3 Percy Weasley # 4 Minerva McGonagall # 5 Ron Weasley # 6 Severus Snape # 7 Rubeus Hagrid # 8 Bill Weasley # 9 Charlie Weasley # 10 Neville Longbottom # 11 Remus Lupin # 12 Draco Malfoy # 13 Harry Potter # 14 Voldemort # 15 Fred/George Weasley # 16 Sirius Black Sarah From drmm at fuuko.com Wed Jan 24 20:15:49 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:15:49 -0000 Subject: Odp: Have you been sorted yet?? Message-ID: <94nd5l+je6v@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10496 Monika wrote: <> Yup. My results show that. 1. Slytherin 2. Gryffindor 3. Ravenclaw 4. Hufflepuff I always suspected I was a Slytherin at heart ;) I suspect the main reason why I got that was because of the "Do you think the ends justify the means" question. I put yes, because, to a limited extent I do. For example, to kill a homicidal maniac tyrant ruler, I think assasination is a perfectly good option. I don't think it's a good option so that I can get the job of my dreams . . . (I'll avoid the digression into why I always adored Methos from Highlander because I would have the same attitude towards a fair fight that he did. . .) Ultimatly, I believe in justice. But, like all of the questions, it's debatable. If I put that I'm insecure, am I lying because I'm not insecure now, but was at one point in time? it just gets confusing. But I like Slytherin. They just get a bad rap . . . ;) DrMM From pbnesbit at msn.com Wed Jan 24 20:18:24 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:18:24 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <200101240446.f0O4kHC18360@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94ndag+72se@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10497 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Whoa, somehow I ended up as Charlie Weasley, with Hermione and Percy in 2nd > and 3rd place. Not what I would have expected, though not I'm not unhappy at > the thought... > > > Kathy > AKA Elanor Gamgee I ended up as Harry Potter with Albus Dumbledore and Ron in second and third place. Funny, I don't look like a 14 year old boy! My house is Gryffindor. I'd hoped it would be... Parker From purdymango1 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 20:39:16 2001 From: purdymango1 at yahoo.com (Teek) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:39:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Japanese fanart Message-ID: <20010124203916.18742.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10498 --- Firebolt wrote: > Wow, yes, they are nice - my only nit is that they're not always > canon-accurate > (Hermione's hair being blond in a few pics, Lee Jordan with short > hair instead > of dreadlocks...). Very cool, though. Probably the artist has only read the books in Japanese, so maybe their translations are off. (Someone was saying the Chinese had them riding around on flying roller-skates, so I think cutting Lee's hair is a slightly less critical point which they very well may have changed.) Also, the Japanese have a thing about western girls with blonde hair - it's such a rarity in their culture that they pick up on it and emphasize it. Someone in the publishing department may have mistranslated Hermione's brown hair, then, or it might just be wishful thinking or a stereotype on the part of the artist. if you hit the links button at the bottom, the ...second link has some more HP art, if you look around for it, including comic strips, which are facinating to try to figure out what scenes they're illustrating. If anyone can find additional art by following the first link, could you post how? There's a "Harry Potter" link, but the rest appears to be all Japanese text. Is it wrong to think that that second picture of Tom Riddle is absolutely adorable, minus the bright red eyes? (maybe I'm subconsciously out to destroy the world - the sorting hat put me in Slytherin! >:/ Followed by Gryffindor. I'm hoping I was just a tad harsh on myself -repressed homicidal urges and all that.) - Teek (posting an entirely useless post, yes.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From jinxster at cyberlass.com Wed Jan 24 20:49:30 2001 From: jinxster at cyberlass.com (Jinx) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:49:30 -0000 Subject: OT Fanfic plug. References: <94j8ic+vv8o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003d01c08647$29629360$db8e7ed4@johnmitt> No: HPFGUIDX 10499 Hello all, My first attempt at fanfic's just been published. Got tired of my house (Slytherin, obv.) getting flamed so I decided to give it a makeover. Snape fans and fellow Slytherins will love it. Here it is. http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic/?action=story-read&storyid=187973 Alternately, run an author search on ff.net (http://www.fanfiction.net) for J. L. Matthews. I've put the first six chapters up in one go as it takes that long for the story to build up, but more will follow. Shameless plug over, I will never mention this again. Unless you want me to. Jinx aka J. L. Matthews From rlpenar at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 20:49:13 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:49:13 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94ndag+72se@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94nf49+a847@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10500 #1 Hagrid #2 Charlie Weasley #3 Harry #4 Dumbledore #5 Hermione I guess it's cause I'm an animal lover.....does anyone know what house Hagrid was in, because all of my other top 5 are Gryffindors, and I also placed in G: #1 Gryffindor #2 Hufflepuff #3 Ravenclaw #4 Slytherin Becky From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 24 20:53:10 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:53:10 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships" ... the Director's cut References: <3A6F2EE9.53D2E456@swbell.net> Message-ID: <005001c08647$bf85f080$ac3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10501 Penny gave evidence, thus:- <<>>> Okay... "Captain Linsenmayer was rescued in the nick of time by a passing Hippogriff and deposited on a remote desert island, where she and her child lived out their days in idyllic surroundings... ***extra bit!! At first, the Captain had been very lonely on the island with only her third child and a handful of native islanders for company, but after a few months had passed, the author checked his napkin and found that there were actually about a thousand people on the island, including the Captain's devoted husand, Bryce and her two older children, a Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag and Dr Simon Branford in leather trousers. Even the mergoat finally made it ashore and grew a pair of magical lungs, after which he devoured all the hammocks." Ahem. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 21:27:58 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:27:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] My mirror of Erised Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10502 < IGetting back to reality. If you were to look in the Mirror of Erised, what would you see?>\ At the moment, isee myself reading books 5-7 and no longer waiting. And in tha background, jo is deciding that she DOES want to write Harry post Book 7 and is furiously typing away!! Stephanie Who just got someone else's acceptance letter to Harvard _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From kathleen at carr.org Wed Jan 24 21:42:24 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:42:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "I see no ships!" Message-ID: <200101242145.f0OLjYC23030@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10503 >--Ebony AKA AngieJ (reporting live from the shipyard, where the >new and improved SS H/H is being constructed... this time with >plenty of lifeboats!) Oh, Ebony, darling, it will never be enough...but don't worry, the Good Ship R/H will be there to rescue you from the iceberg! Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee Self-appointed Captain (or Captain by Default, as the case may be) of the Good ship R/H, which doesn't need house-elves, thank you very much, since it runs on the magic of *True Love* From john at walton.to Wed Jan 24 21:48:55 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:48:55 +0000 Subject: (OT) The Epitome of Innocence (was: Was it Just Me?) In-Reply-To: <3A6F1A14.117AB0F2@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10504 > tammy wrote: >> Was anyone else surprised at the pronunciation of Hermione's name? >> I'm humbled to admit that I've been pronouncing it the same way as >> Krum... "Hermy-own"!! (schwa)-MAN-d(schwa) wrote: > It's a classical name, but not common name in America; I don't know > about across the pond. There is a famous actress named Hermione: Hermione Gringold? I may be muddling her surname...can anyone deobfuscate? > About the only place you're likely to come across > it in modern experience is if you studied Shakespeare, so your confusion > is understandable. Gawd, Shakespearean pronunciations. My sword, Iago... > We all do this sort of thing. My own mental > pronunciation of epitome was "EH-pi-tome" for years until I heard it > spoken LOL! I did *exactly* the same thing...except that I actualy said EH-pit-owm during a reading in a school service. And the amusing thing is that I had no clue I was doing it! I knew that "eh-PIT-uh-mee" was a word, and just assumed that epitome was epi (as in epigram, epigraph, epilation) + tome (book). I had no idea what the resulting construction would mean... --JOHN (who once had a freind [sic] who spelled it Jhon...) == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 21:49:38 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 15:49:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10505 >Alas, a measly 24% for me. Oh well, if it had been Star Wars I >would've scored in the 90s, I'm pretty sure, and I've had nearly 24 >years to work on *that* obsession...but only 3 weeks for Harry Potter. > >marvin I finally took the second quiz, and guess what, still a good ol' 110%...I am crazily obsessed. Marvin, there are Star Wars Quizes, i got 140% on that one. But I think that this quiz needs a new question: Did your obsession for HP take over a previous obsession? Because ever since readin HP, i fell out of my readin star wars on loop and watching the viedoes 375 times each....(It is scary bc....it is true) Stephanie Who recommends anyone who desperately need something to read until Book 5 to run out and Buy Something by John Irving, spec. A Prayer for Owen Meany or The World Acccording to Garp _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dedorman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 24 22:08:57 2001 From: dedorman at earthlink.net (Erin Dorman) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:08:57 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: "I see no ships!" In-Reply-To: <200101242145.f0OLjYC23030@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010124160815.009e4530@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10506 Being new to the HP world, can someone please explain the "Shipping" references to me? Offlist is fine, my email address is dedorman at earthlink.net Thanks! Erin At 04:42 PM 1/24/01 -0500, you wrote: > >--Ebony AKA AngieJ (reporting live from the shipyard, where the > >new and improved SS H/H is being constructed... this time with > >plenty of lifeboats!) > > >Oh, Ebony, darling, it will never be enough...but don't worry, the Good Ship >R/H will be there to rescue you from the iceberg! > >Kathy From yael_pou at hotmail.com Tue Jan 23 16:13:43 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 18:13:43 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Obsessiveness quiz References: <94j3vd+v8ij@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10507 ----- Original Message ----- From: Marvin Long Alas, a measly 24% for me. Oh well, if it had been Star Wars I would've scored in the 90s, I'm pretty sure, and I've had nearly 24 years to work on *that* obsession...but only 3 weeks for Harry Potter. marvin Oh, Thank you! I was afraid to reveal my 27%, last i get kicked from the list... :) And i scored higher than you! yael *goes off with little dance steps* [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 22:08:34 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:08:34 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10508 I REALLY want to see sevarl scenes: 1)Hermione freaking out that there are no matches on PS/SS (which if they leave out i will be FURIOUS) 2) Draco Malfoy bouncing about as a Ferret 3)The Scene when harry FIRST discovers the Mirror(that will be a tear jerker if they do it right as well) 4) Lockhart(hopefully Carey Elwes) duelling Snape... Stephanie Off to watch Sense and Sensibility to tide me over...whilst pretending he is snape...no no, that wont work, oh well >Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live >up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I >would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a detail >person): I want to see the inside of the Weasleys house, with the >clock that has no numbers and the ghoul in the attic; I want to see >the mirror of erised with Harry looking into it and seeing people >behind him; and I want to see the scene when Tom Riddle changes the >letters of his name, Tom Marvolo Riddle, into I Am Lord Voldemort. I >imagine these letters just floating in midair and then rearranging >themselves, very cool. > >Also, since we're speaking of the movie, is there anyone else out >there who is worried that computer animation will ruin the magic??? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From yael_pou at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 14:51:57 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:51:57 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Star Wars.... and FICTIONAL politicians References: <20010120062427.3396.qmail@web12104.mail.yahoo.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010123130624.00d568b0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10509 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Hardenbrook To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com Ah! Another "Minister" fan! Fudge's attitude thus far to Voldy's return reminds me of Humphery's "Four Stage Manuover" for dealing with a dire threat. In terms of Voldy's return, it would go like this: Stage 1: We say "You-Know-Who returned? Preposterous, Dumbledore!" Stage 2: We say "Maybe the Dark Lord *has* returned, but we should do nothing about it." Stage 3: We say "Perhaps we *should* do something about the Dark Lord but there's nothing we *can* do." Stage 4: We say "Maybe there was something we *could* have done, but it's too late now." ("Avada Kedavra!", and the last of Voldy's opponents are terminated.) Actually, i see it more like: Stage 1: We say "You-Know-Who returned? Preposterous, Dumbledore!" Stage 2: We say "Maybe the Dark Lord *has* returned, but we should do nothing about it." Stage 3: We say "Perhaps we *should* do something about the Dark Lord but there's nothing we *can* do." Stage 4: *You* should have done something earlier. now, *we*'ve won. Here's Potter, Master... i guess this relates to the whole "Is Fudge evil or just stupid?" dilemma. yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Wed Jan 24 22:26:55 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:26:55 -0000 Subject: Quidditch Fan Song (a short filk) Message-ID: <94nkrf+tp7q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10510 Take me out to see Quidditch Take me out for the match Buy me Bertie's Every Flavor Beans I love them all except if they're green And we'll root root root for the seeker Let's hope that he grabs the Snitch For it's one-hundred fifty points when you play Quidditch! - CMC From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 22:38:18 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:38:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10511 I must say, I am rather pleased with my results, though saddened and suprised that there is no Draco, bc while i lack his weird insecurities, I have the unlucky talent of always being able to say exactly what i want to say when i want to say it and having it come across like i am some evil git...but anyways.....to show that I am not, check out my very cool top 6: # 1 Harry Potter # 2 Albus Dumbledore # 3 Fred/George Weasley # 4 Bill Weasley # 5 Charlie Weasley # 6 Hermione Granger After that it was hagrid and ron etc. Though voldemort did make #17, right behind Sirius Stephanie Whose Student Band Director(student teacher) wore a Gryffindor tshirt today whilst I had on my Slytherin (i have on from Gryf too, and it is my pref, dont worry) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aichambaye at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 22:50:02 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:50:02 -0000 Subject: Alert! Collector's Edition! Message-ID: <94nm6q+pkfl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10512 Hi all! Went to the mall today to look at HP stuff and GUESS WHAT? The Collector's edition of book 1 is ON SALE at Waldenbooks for 75% off. If you are near a Waldenbooks -- it's only about $18!! WOW! This is the url for the store locator. I hope it's not only a local thing, otherwise... http://www.waldenbooks.com/index.xcv?page=locator I also bought those neat sorting hat bookends from Dillards. Heather M. From cassandraclaire at mail.com Wed Jan 24 22:52:43 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:52:43 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" In-Reply-To: <200101242145.f0OLjYC23030@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94nmbr+ocau@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10513 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >--Ebony AKA AngieJ (reporting live from the shipyard, where the > >new and improved SS H/H is being constructed... this time with > >plenty of lifeboats!) > > Kathy wrote: Oh, Ebony, darling, it will never be enough...but don't worry, the Good Ship R/H will be there to rescue you from the iceberg! **** Somehow I have a strong feeling Ebony would rather take her chances on the iceberg. That's okay, Eb...I'll happily hang out with you in the frozen wilderness. I know many tasty penguin recipies. Cassandra From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 22:53:38 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:53:38 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94n1di+7jie@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94nmdi+2sg6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10514 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > > > > > you're forgetting his friends. Everything Harry has done in fighting > > evil, he has done with the help of his friends. That's one of the > > more prominent messages of the books; to rely on friends. I suspect > > it will be the combined talents of Harry, Hermione and Ron (plus any > > random others) who will ultimately defeat Voldemort, as it has > always > > been in the books so far. > > > > > Dai, > > You're really getting in my head here! That's one of the main things > that I think the superharry theory overlooks. When I was trying > unsuccessfully to put together my thoughts last night that's one of > the things I was focusing on. In most of the major crises in the > books a group effort was involved in the resolution. > > examples: > > With the troll - Harry jumped on his back and Ron charmed the club. > > In the forest when Harry fist encountered Quirrell/Voldemort - Firenze > and Hagrid helped Harry escape. > > 'Through the trapdoor' - The trio worked together to get through the > obstacles, Harry faced Voldemort, and Dumbledore pulled him out. > > The chamber - Ron and Harry had help from the prostrate Hermione for > the clue and from Moaning Myrtle to find the opening. Harry had help > from Dumbledore and Fawkes and from Godric Gryffindor himself while > inside the chamber with Riddle. > > Harry gets by with a little help from his friends, his mentors, and > even in some ways the universe in general. > > But even if I didn't agree with Dai on that one, if the key themes I > see in the books are what were really intended I'd say the superharry > theory can't be right. > > The two themes that have stood out to me most in Harryland I have > taken from the mouth of Dumbeldore: > > The first was when he explained to Harry in CoS that it was his > choices that make him who he is, and not his potential. > > The second is at the end of PS/SS when Harry is upset because while he > kept Voldemort from getting the stone he knew V would come back. > Dumbledore said: "Nevertheless, Harry, while you may only have delated > his return to power, it will merely take someone else who is prepared > to fight what seems a loosing battle next time - and if he is delayed > again, and again, why, he may never return to power." > > To me this says that it's the act of standing up against evil that is > key, not necessarily being stronger than the evil in question. > If, as I think, these are two of the important themes in the books, > then I'd say the superharry theory would be counterproductive. > > Then there's one other thing. I think some people are forgetting the > thing that stands out to me most about Voldemort - hubris, which in > the end I think will be a major contributor to his downfall. > > Ok all of the above is kind of rambly and may be hard to decipher > like my first post on the subject, so let me try to summarize in case > it didn't make any sense. > > -I think first off that the SuperHarry theory goes against the major > themes of the book and therefore must not be correct. > > -I think also that Voldemort will be defeated by a combination of > Harry's power, will, strengths and talents, the power, will, strengths > and talents of all the others who choose to stand against evil, and > Voldemort's own vanity. > > Does it make any sense? > kimberly Yes, that is very true. I actually realised that after posting my last message (or was it before and I forgot when I was posting? Never mind). However, if Harry is your plain ordinary common-or-garden everyday bog-standard wizard, why did Voldemort want to kill him in the first place? I suppose the resistance-to-Avada-Kedavra-spell-in- development theory kind of covers that. But if Harry is in fact perfectly normal and what saved him at age 1 was something his parents did, it means his fame and veneration has been entirely undeserved...something that could be very messy. Also, if they had a defence against AK, why didn't Lily and James use it on themselves as well as Harry? It seems unlikely that they would test out an experimental charm on their son before anyone else. The Lily's-death-saved him theory avoids this problem, but it begs the question of why the same thing never happened before - people must surely have sacrificed themselves to save others in a similar way in the past - not to mention why they had to die (James and Harry that is, not Lily it seems from Voldemort's words...the male bloodline thing leads me to suspect some kind of hereditary thing). Keith From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 24 22:53:21 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:53:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) Message-ID: <003f01c08658$73cf8dc0$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10515 Kimberly wrote: <> LOLOLOL!!!!!! Okay, here we go. ::Rina steps up to the podium:: Ahem! Attention please. I am saying the following without taking any bribes from Ms. Kimberly. She didn't even beg or ask me to do it. Originally, at any rate. > Kimberly wrote: > > < as a possible explanation that wouldn't include something outside of > canon like Lily performing some special charm or Harry being > super-baby. I don't know if it's true, but it is one theory I've come > up with.>> > > I think it makes perfect sense. I know that Harry has some big powers, but Voldemort *was able to curse him in the end of book 4. So whatever saved him from being killed then is gone now, and I think it goes beyond Lily's love and protection. Plus, I think it sounds like something JKR would do, giving a hint for future explanations. > Thank you. ::Rina steps off the podium:: ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From gaynor at cheerful.com Wed Jan 24 22:54:49 2001 From: gaynor at cheerful.com (Gaynor Thomas) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:54:49 -0000 Subject: Japanese fanart In-Reply-To: <20010124203916.18742.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94nmfp+83n8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10516 Teek wrote: > if you hit the links button at the bottom, the ...second link has > some more HP art, if you look around for it, including comic strips, > which are facinating to try to figure out what scenes they're > illustrating. If anyone can find additional art by following the > first link, could you post how? There's a "Harry Potter" link, but > the rest appears to be all Japanese text. The three sites listed in the links section of this page all have HP pictures. But some of the pictures are a bit hard to find unless you can read Japanese, so here is some help: http://www.ne.jp/asahi/miraiken/aliel/haripota/harrypotter.html Click on 1-6 for pictures Bottom link- "Go>>>" - takes you to another page with more links to pictures. http://www.geocities.co.jp/Bookend/4822/harry/harry0.html#Anchor-49575 A picture of Harry appears as the background to this page: the rest of site is text only. http://www.alpha-net.ne.jp/users2/akuru/harrypotter/har.index.htm Lots of pictures here: click on the (japanese) links listed under "Illust" and "Comic" The illustrations seem to be of PS/SS and CoS, which are the only books to have been translated into Japanese so far, I think. PoA is out in English in Japan, but GoF is definitely not available there as I have spent vast sums of money shipping hardback copies of GoF to British and Canadian friends in Hiroshima! Firebolt wrote: > > my only nit is that they're not always > > canon-accurate > > (Hermione's hair being blond in a few pics, Lee Jordan with short > > hair instead > > of dreadlocks...). Very cool, though. There is a bit of confusion about the dreadlocks in a (Japanese- language) discussion on the page. Someone complains of the lack of dreadlocks in Lee's picture, and has obviously read the book in English, but someone else replied asking her what "dreadlocks" are, so maybe they *aren't* in the Japanese-language edition. Thinking back, I didn't see any dreadlocks during my time in Japan, so maybe they aren't common. I just ordered HP in Japanese so perhaps I'll be able to find out soon ;) Hope the link information is of help. Gaynor xx (shaking at having the daring to do my first-ever delurk!) From ABoyko at starchoice.com Wed Jan 24 22:56:46 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:56:46 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Calendar Question of the Week Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE94@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10517 > -----Original Message----- > From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu > [SMTP:heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 3:20 PM > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Calendar Question of the Week > > the Harry potter desktop page-a-day calendar's Question of the > Weekend this past sat/sun was: > If you had a wizard's fortune like Harry, what wizard things would > you buy with it? > > I was going to say absolutely Every Flavour of the Beans - but yechh! A Firebolt! One of the wizarding tents - because I hate to camp the Muggle way. I can't live without indoor plumbing. Angela From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 23:01:24 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:01:24 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94n1di+7jie@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94nms4+2tnp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10518 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > > > The two themes that have stood out to me most in Harryland I have > taken from the mouth of Dumbeldore: > > The first was when he explained to Harry in CoS that it was his > choices that make him who he is, and not his potential. > > The second is at the end of PS/SS when Harry is upset because while he > kept Voldemort from getting the stone he knew V would come back. > Dumbledore said: "Nevertheless, Harry, while you may only have delated > his return to power, it will merely take someone else who is prepared > to fight what seems a loosing battle next time - and if he is delayed > again, and again, why, he may never return to power." > > To me this says that it's the act of standing up against evil that is > key, not necessarily being stronger than the evil in question. > If, as I think, these are two of the important themes in the books, > then I'd say the superharry theory would be counterproductive. > > Then there's one other thing. I think some people are forgetting the > thing that stands out to me most about Voldemort - hubris, which in > the end I think will be a major contributor to his downfall. > > Ok all of the above is kind of rambly and may be hard to decipher > like my first post on the subject, so let me try to summarize in case > it didn't make any sense. > > -I think first off that the SuperHarry theory goes against the major > themes of the book and therefore must not be correct. > > -I think also that Voldemort will be defeated by a combination of > Harry's power, will, strengths and talents, the power, will, strengths > and talents of all the others who choose to stand against evil, and > Voldemort's own vanity. > > Does it make any sense? > kimberly OK, me again. I read the bit on the themes, and you're quite right. Lord of the Rings is like this - the little hobbits overcome the seemingly invincible Dark Lord. However, the questions like 'then how did he survive?' and 'why did he have to die?' still stand. Also heroic hopeless last stands are all very well, but there needs to be some way to beat the bad guy (eg the possession of the Ring to chuck into Mount Doom in Lord of the Rings). Having him fall down a pit by pure dumb luck just doesn't work. Actually I just thought of something curious - why hasn't Harry, son of two of the best students at Hogwarts in recent years, shown signs of being a brilliant student like them? Academically he seems a fairly ordinary Joe, even if he is superb at Quidditch. I certainly don't see him being able to become an Animagus at age 15. I think I'll put up a new post about this... Keith From landers at email.unc.edu Wed Jan 24 22:53:10 2001 From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty Landers) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:53:10 -0500 Subject: Have you been sorted yet? + Which Character are you? References: <980358535.396.93638.l10@egroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F5CD4.AD63C30B@email.unc.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10519 I sorted myself with the sorting hat at harrypotterfans.com four times and it put me in Slytherin twice, Gryffindor and Ravenclaw once apiece. And on the Which Character are you quiz, it said I was most like Hermione and least like Voldemort. Snape was near the bottom, too, but I don't recall the exact order. I'm going to go find that link and have that selector sort me. Betty, who's still disappointed that she's only 60% obsessed with HP. From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 23:03:18 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:03:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10520 Ok so I took the House Quiz, and I know these results are dead on, though I am sure i would be hard to place between Gryf. and Slytherin, though Ravenclaw is NOT far behind. I am like Hermione in PoU i guess... # 1 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring # 2 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian # 3 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 4 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal As for the char quiz, i took the quiz again 5 min later knowing that couldnt be right, and changed some stuff i missed(yes 15 was gone on mine too, i just said not sure) and i got a COMPLETELY dif and much more compatible list back, so here it is: # 1 Draco Malfoy # 2 Harry Potter # 3 Hermione Granger # 4 Albus Dumbledore # 5 Severus Snape # 6 Fred/George Weasley I said: I must say, I am rather pleased with my results, though saddened and suprised that there is no Draco, bc while i lack his weird insecurities, I have the unlucky talent of always being able to say exactly what i want to say when i want to say it and having it come across like i am some evil git...but anyways.....to show that I am not, check out my very cool top 6: # 1 Harry Potter # 2 Albus Dumbledore # 3 Fred/George Weasley # 4 Bill Weasley # 5 Charlie Weasley # 6 Hermione Granger After that it was hagrid and ron etc. Though voldemort did make #17, right behind Sirius _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 24 22:57:19 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:57:19 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipping Party Boats ... Anyone for a Cruise?/menage a trois Message-ID: <004d01c08659$01918820$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10521 Ebony wrote: <> Can't say much for the second point, but I'll contest the first one. As pretty much anyone who knows me expected. LOL It would be an...interesting...solution. <> Hell, I'll beta. LOL It'd be fun. Speaking of H/R/H, are there any just pure friendship fics with them? Being me, I just naturally jumped only towards the shippy fic once I discovered there was *any fic. LOL Now I can try others. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rlpenar at yahoo.com Wed Jan 24 23:02:40 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:02:40 -0000 Subject: Hagrid's house Message-ID: <94nmug+p8q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10522 I think my question got lost in my response to sorting & characters, but does anyone know which house Hagrid was in?? If I had to guess, I would say Hufflepuff, seeing as he is sooooooooooo loyal to Big D. And I would think that if he was in Slytherin, it would have been brought up somewhere in CoS when Harry, Hermione & Ron were supecting him...hmmmm...anyone??? Becky (41% obsessed) From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Wed Jan 24 23:08:26 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:08:26 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) Message-ID: <94nn9a+3eod@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10523 Why isn't Harry, son of two of the best students at Hogwarts, one of whom managed to become an Animagus at age 15, a better wizard? Academically he seems a fairly ordinary Joe, certainly compared to Hermione, even if he is extremely brave and brilliant at Quidditch. I thought of this while trying to hold up the super-Harry theory. I believe it may, just may, support it. Possibly James and Lily's abilities have combined to make Harry immensely powerful on an instinctive/higher level which he hasn't learned how to access yet. Or I may just be talking complete hogwash (wouldn't be the first time). [Check out my Endgame fanfic for an example of deeply rooted powers suddenly breaking out, plug plug, I'm ff.net author 19528] Keith From landers at email.unc.edu Wed Jan 24 23:06:28 2001 From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty Landers) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:06:28 -0500 Subject: [Quiz Results!] References: <980358535.396.93638.l10@egroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F5FF0.99295AA3@email.unc.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10524 I sorted myself once with the house selector using the most accurate self-reporting measures I could. 1. Hufflepuff, 2. Gryffindor, 3. Slytherin, 4. Ravenclaw. Betty. From dedorman at earthlink.net Wed Jan 24 23:23:10 2001 From: dedorman at earthlink.net (Erin Dorman) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:23:10 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Alert! Collector's Edition! In-Reply-To: <94nm6q+pkfl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010124172213.009fa3b0@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10525 Border's also has it for 75% off, I'm pretty sure. Erin At 10:50 PM 1/24/01 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all! Went to the mall today to look at HP stuff and GUESS WHAT? >The Collector's edition of book 1 is ON SALE at Waldenbooks for 75% >off. If you are near a Waldenbooks -- it's only about $18!! WOW! > >This is the url for the store locator. I hope it's not only a local >thing, otherwise... > >http://www.waldenbooks.com/index.xcv?page=locator > >I also bought those neat sorting hat bookends from Dillards. > >Heather M. From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 23:16:27 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:16:27 -0000 Subject: "I see no ships!" In-Reply-To: <200101242145.f0OLjYC23030@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94nnob+a262@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10526 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > >--Ebony AKA AngieJ (reporting live from the shipyard, where the > >new and improved SS H/H is being constructed... this time with > >plenty of lifeboats!) > > > Oh, Ebony, darling, it will never be enough...but don't worry, the Good Ship > R/H will be there to rescue you from the iceberg! > LOL! Come on, Kathy, you know I'd rather drown! "Alas, poor Ebony, we knew her well." Seriously, though, how about a compromise? If we can't be a destroyer (darn, Penny!) then it's no fair to make us out to be the Titanic. We'll just be a Carnival Cruise liner, then. Or better yet, the English Channel's equivalent of the Pacific Princess. "The plane, the plane!" Fun though Neil's scenario was, this sink won't ship. Unless, of course, JKR is George Lucas in disguise and Harry and Hermione are siblings--in which case we are nicely covered by the disclaimer in our charter. :::giggling hysterically::: --Ebony AKA AngieJ (who wishes she could be more rational about such things, but would much rather drown in the dark and scary sea of no- shipperdom) > Self-appointed Captain (or Captain by Default, as the case may be) > of the Good ship R/H, which doesn't need house-elves, thank you very >much, since it runs on the magic of *True Love* :::clears throat::: 'Ey! Goat! Don't I get at least some credit for not posting a wisecrack in response to this claim? From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 24 22:23:05 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:23:05 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) The Epitome of Innocence (was: Was i Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10527 Hi John! Ooooh, you're so close: Gingold. (Theatre is my forte. ) She was wonderful! I especially enjoyed her in "A Little Night Music". Oops, am I showing my age again? From foxmoth at qnet.com Wed Jan 24 23:28:01 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:28:01 -0000 Subject: Quidditch Fan Song (a short filk) In-Reply-To: <94nkrf+tp7q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94noe1+evk7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10528 Cute! You are my inspiration. Pippin From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Wed Jan 24 23:36:12 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 24 Jan 2001 15:36:12 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <20010124233612.29955.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10529 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 00:40:13 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:40:13 -0600 Subject: What would I buy..... References: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE94@lincoln.starchoice.com> Message-ID: <022d01c08667$62062fe0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10530 Hmm. A house! (Looks around at the 2 bedroom apt filled with piles) One with closet organizers....lol. Um. A Saturn. Hey, this would mean I'd have to give up my material things, doesn't it--because most wizards aren't into using Muggle things.... cries. No more 'puter? ______________________________________________ ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com To get help with your VtM roleplaying, check out this neat club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/vtmstorytellersclub ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 4:56 PM Subject: RE: [HPforGrownups] Calendar Question of the Week > > -----Original Message----- > > From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu > > [SMTP:heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu] > > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 3:20 PM > > To: HPforGrownups at egroups.com > > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Calendar Question of the Week > > > > the Harry potter desktop page-a-day calendar's Question of the > > Weekend this past sat/sun was: > > If you had a wizard's fortune like Harry, what wizard things would > > you buy with it? > > > > > I was going to say absolutely Every Flavour of the Beans - but > yechh! > A Firebolt! > One of the wizarding tents - because I hate to camp the Muggle way. > I can't live without indoor plumbing. > > Angela > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 24 23:42:27 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 17:42:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) Message-ID: <008201c0865f$4f434e40$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10531 Keith wrote: <> Well, it could be motivation. James and his friends were actively looking to do this. And who's to say that Lupin, for instance, wasn't a male Hermione? ;) Refresh my memory, when did someone refer to J&L as the best students? It could be that one of them, not necessarily James, was a brilliant wizard who loved to look things up. A cross between F/G Weasley and Hermione, I suppose. Also, genetics. I work in a kindergarten. There's this one little boy is as average as you can be. That's not bad, he is doing just fine, but he's average. His two older siblings, however, are geniouses and their dad works for NASA. Just because he's Lily and James' son doesn't mean he has to be brilliant at academics. But he is doing fine, and he can do better than fine when he's with his friends. Maybe even James and Lily did better than fine because they were with their friends. On an almost completely unrelated tangent, I keep reading about Lily Evans. Did JKR mention her maiden name in one of the books and I missed it, or is this like Scully always using strawberry shampoo? (IE, is it something a fan came up with and the rest of the fan community ran with it, so that almost everyone forgets it's not really canon.) Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rlpenar at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 00:07:53 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:07:53 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) In-Reply-To: <008201c0865f$4f434e40$37397e82@shelley> Message-ID: <94nqop+hvgd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10532 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Keith wrote: > > < of two of the best students at Hogwarts in recent years, shown signs > of being a brilliant student like them? > > Well, it could be motivation. James and his friends were actively looking to do this. And who's to say that Lupin, for instance, wasn't a male Hermione? ;) Refresh my memory, when did someone refer to J&L as the best students? Somewhere it is mentioned that Lily and James were head boy and girl, thus implying major studiousness. But I guess that's just an assumption, no one has said that Percy gets the best grades, yet he is a prefect. We don't know the criteria for being head boy and girl, perhaps it's more of a role model thing? (Obviously, then, James' wanderings around using the Marauder's map and becoming an animagus went unnoticed) From morine10 at aol.com Thu Jan 25 00:10:53 2001 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:10:53 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Ship Hits the Fan -A Brilliant post Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10533 I had resigned myself to lurking but a true Gryffindor never leaves his or her mates hanging.... Kathy wrote: > (I've been waiting to use that subject line for a while now!) > Good one! > OK, first of all, WHERE are all the R/H-ers? At the moment, the Good Ship > R/H > feels more like a rowboat, with me paddling furiously to get out of the way > of > the wake created by the big gaudy SS H/H. Zsenya? Elizabeth? Thena? > Little > help, please? :) > Aye, aye Cap'n. First mate Maureen reporting for duty! > Ebony yet again (we knew she was loquacious!): > >You know, I never thought I'd agree with an R/Her on so much. Of course, > >deep down I really think Kathy is an H/H Prodigal, who will eventually tire > >of R/H Disorder and come on home. :-) > > Not a chance, my friend. It never really did it for me in the first place, > and the more you try to convert me, the more I will stick to my guns with > Ron-like stubbornness. Kathy will never turn, she is way too strong. (Use the Force, Kathy) Besides our uniforms are much nicer. :) > Penny said: > >Neil! It was hilarious, but couldn't you have compared the Good Ship R/H to > >Titanic rather than our very own SS H/H? > > Because it was just more appropriate, I suppose . Maybe the Good Ship > R/H > can play the Carpathia, and arrive the next morning to pick up the > survivors... > I gave Kathy permission to use this so we might be repeating ourselves......*The SS H/H has packed on far too many passengers and not nearly enough lifeboats.* You are all royally screwed. :) I also see you all stranded on a deserted isle, episode after episode looking to be rescued. Each week you are visited by a "Special R/H Guest" who somehow manages to leave while you all remain there with your bizarre theories and coconut telephones.... > Ebony again: > >Many of the best H/H writers *do* deal with Ron. Just perhaps not to the > >satisfaction of some. > > Exactly. And the very fact that it is termed "The Ron problem" should tell > you why this annoys R/H-ers so greatly. Grrrrr..... > All that said, I REALLY liked Penny's idea of the various ships as party > liners sailing along the HP waters. I have been thinking about the Good > Ship > R/H: It's large and looks fairly rickety from the outside, but it's held up > by > magic and is much more sturdy than some might think. It has chess sets > throughout and small explosions are considered a matter of course. It also > has a large closet full of shoes so Ron can demonstrate his shoe-tying > technique (if you don't get it, go read B Bennett's newest fic). Oh, and > we > never serve Corned Beef on the Good Ship R/H. > That *True Love* magic (second only to a Mother's Love) really is amazing!!! > You know, it occurs to me that part of the problem for us R/Hers is that we > don't have an Uber-fic the way H/Hers have PoU and DD/DS. (OH wait, there > is > that one by Joanne something...though she's not very timely about getting > the > parts out...) > LOL Captain Kathy! Our Admiral, Joanne, will steer this ship on the right course!! -Mo First Mate of the Good Ship R/H ****************************************************************************** **************** "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From allisondek at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 00:46:22 2001 From: allisondek at yahoo.com (allisondek at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:46:22 -0000 Subject: Ancient Magic (was Re: something else from the graveyard) In-Reply-To: <001401c0839b$401a2a40$1187893e@heather> Message-ID: <94nt0u+5a6d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10534 Greetings I've read that JK Rowling is familiar with the Narnia books. Is any connection between the "ancient magic" that protects Harry while he is with his relations, and the "deep magic from the dawn of Time" and, I believe, "deeper magic from before the dawn of Time" that are found in "the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe"? Allison From relliott at jvlnet.com Thu Jan 25 00:54:04 2001 From: relliott at jvlnet.com (Rachelle Elliott) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:54:04 -0600 Subject: Character quiz (Thanks) References: <980311248.21085.67749.l8@egroups.com> Message-ID: <002201c08669$5116a320$26b191d8@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10535 My top 3/4 were 1. Remus Lupin 2. Charlie Weasley 3. Fred/George Weasley Thanks for the website! I am going to use it next Monday at my Middle School Harry Potter Club. I'll let you know how the students react. From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 00:54:05 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:54:05 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] If at first you dont succeed, ship ship again Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10536 I read all of the Shipping emails and I think everyone can argue his/her side brilliantly. But I could never make up my mind. I kept trying dif. combos in my head, constantly...First it was Hermione and Harry, then Ron and hermione, then Ginny and Harry, etc etc etc...so on and so forth. Then I came to a great realisation. I care more about what Jo thinks should happen than what I do. What I mean to say is that these are essentially her books and, as many others have said, I would not be angry no matter whom she placed with whom, or what she did with any character (though I may end up a little bit miffed if Draco stays "evil") I think fanfic is what should provide a wonderful world for all of the shippers out there. I mean, Lori almost won me over in PoU, almost but not quite. And in Draco Dormiens, my opinions grew in another way, etc etc etc. I dont think that anyone will be proven right or wrong on this issue, mainly because we WANT to see it a certain way, dont necessarily expect to. Besides, we all know how great Jo is at throwing curveballs at us. BUT, do NOT stop debating, I love to read it!! Stephanie Who is: a) wondering why her "Mirror of the Erised" bookmark has the pie symbols and math on the blackboard behind it (anyone else notice this) b) pretty much sure she is changing her email to StephanieMalfoy, bc the more i read the books the more he grows on me c)hoping no one notices that these little things are a great way for me to be off topic and everyone still has to read them...mua ha ha ha....j/k _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Jan 25 01:01:00 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:01:00 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Japanese fanart References: <94nmfp+83n8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F7ACC.C245DDB3@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10537 Gaynor Thomas wrote: > There is a bit of confusion about the dreadlocks in a (Japanese- > language) discussion on the page. Someone complains of the lack of > dreadlocks in Lee's picture, and has obviously read the book in > English, but someone else replied asking her what "dreadlocks" are, > so maybe they *aren't* in the Japanese-language edition. Thinking > back, I didn't see any dreadlocks during my time in Japan, so maybe > they aren't common. I just ordered HP in Japanese so perhaps I'll be > able to find out soon ;) Lee isn't described as having dreadlocks until GoF. I also noticed that some pix of Draco which I found in links from those pages have him with very very dark hair - which makes sense if PoA is recently out or not out yet, as it's not until then that JKR says his hair is silvery blond. > > > Hope the link information is of help. very much so! and thanks for delurking! please do it again! From sashibuya at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 01:06:38 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:06:38 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) In-Reply-To: <94nn9a+3eod@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94nu6u+pstb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10538 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote: > Why isn't Harry, son of two of the best students at Hogwarts, one of > whom managed to become an Animagus at age 15, a better wizard? > Academically he seems a fairly ordinary Joe, certainly compared to > Hermione, even if he is extremely brave and brilliant at Quidditch. I don't think he is necessarily a bad wizard. We know that Hermione's truly brilliant, and that Crabbe and Goyle aren't that bright, but we don't know exactly where Harry stands in his class academically. He did manage to produce a Patronus, though. Plus he has no incentive to become an animagus. You could also say that with all the extra- curricular work he's been doing, and all the advanced magic he's been exposed to, he's probably ahead of most of his peers in experience and knowledge. > > I thought of this while trying to hold up the super-Harry theory. I > believe it may, just may, support it. Possibly James and Lily's > abilities have combined to make Harry immensely powerful on an > instinctive/higher level which he hasn't learned how to access yet. > I don't think in the magical system set up in the books people's powers differ very much in type as opposed to level. Sure, some people are better at some branches of magic than others, but it seems to be more a question of passion/intellectual interest. Everyone seems to be able to do the same kinds of magic if they want to. And to add more boring speculation about magic... It's interesting that in JKR's world magic is a inborn potential to be developed rather than a skill to be learned, as opposed to other fantasy books anyone can learn magic by studying. I think Harry will become more powerful with study and practice rather than from innate abilities. Like someone else had said early (sorry I don't recall when), Harry could do magic without even knowing that he did (kind of more like psychic powers), or knowing any spells. But I don't think that this shows a difference between child and adult wizards; everyone bothers to learn spells because it's more efficient to do magic in that way. Charmian From sashibuya at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 01:09:29 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:09:29 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) In-Reply-To: <94nqop+hvgd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94nuc9+advn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10539 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > > Keith wrote: > > Somewhere it is mentioned that Lily and James were head boy and girl, > thus implying major studiousness. But I guess that's just an > assumption, no one has said that Percy gets the best grades, yet he > is a prefect. We don't know the criteria for being head boy and girl, > perhaps it's more of a role model thing? (Obviously, then, James' > wanderings around using the Marauder's map and becoming an animagus > went unnoticed) Well, we don't know if Percy was the most amazing academically of his year, but we did hear that his grades were very good, and that his mother was irritated at the twins for not doing as well on their exams as he did. But it is probably a role model thing too. I hope we hear more about what James and Lily were actually like in personality in the next few books. Charmian From malinaschick at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 01:56:49 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:56:49 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character does teh quiz put me as? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10540 So I went to the site, quite curious as to which character I was most like. Here's my order: 1. Harry Potter 2. Ron Weasley 3. Hermione Granger 4. Professor Dumbledore 5. Hagrid I thought that was so cool! I'm almost Ron, we'd be compatiable then, right? And Hermione Granger, I'm stubborn...And I just found it plain awesome, cool, and wonderful that I was almost head on with Professor Dumbledore. The Headmaster! @~~~ Steph "That was some pretty interesting grammer right there." -Casey (I thought that was appropriate!) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Jan 25 01:45:52 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:45:52 -0000 Subject: The Ship Hits the Fan -A Brilliant post In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94o0gg+ouhj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10541 Ebony : Many of the best H/H writers *do* deal with Ron. Just perhaps not to the satisfaction of some. Morine: Exactly. And the very fact that it is termed "The Ron problem" should tell you why this annoys R/H-ers so greatly. *raises eyebrow* Why? I've seen it termed "The Harry Problem" when talking about R/H fic. Either way one member of the trio is going to feel left out. Obviously Ron would have bigger issues than Harry, but the issues remain nonetheless. Kathy: " You know, it occurs to me that part of the problem for us R/Hers is that we don't have an Uber-fic the way H/Hers have PoU and DD/DS. (OH wait, there is that one by Joanne something...though she's not very timely about getting the parts out...) Morine: LOL Captain Kathy! Our Admiral, Joanne, will steer this ship on the right course!!" I just have to say for my own self, and I think I speak for most H/H'ers here, if Ron and Hermione do wind up 'together', it won't diminish my enjoyment of the books at all. I'll just file it away with the house elves under "distasteful subplots that I really could do without, but will just ignore instead." And I'll still love the books. Cass From ender_w at msn.com Thu Jan 25 01:54:35 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:54:35 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Japanese fanart References: <20010124203916.18742.qmail@web4705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01c08671$d05483c0$d9e8183f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 10542 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Teek" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Japanese fanart > > Is it wrong to think that that second picture of Tom Riddle is > absolutely adorable, minus the bright red eyes? > > (maybe I'm subconsciously out to destroy the world - the sorting hat > put me in Slytherin! >:/ Followed by Gryffindor. I'm hoping I was > just a tad harsh on myself -repressed homicidal urges and all that.) > > - Teek (posting an entirely useless post, yes.) I think all of the pictures of Tom Riddle are adorable, though the one monochromatic picture looks eerily like me as a child. I loved most of the pictures, especially the twins. The only ones I didn't like were Hermione and Lee. Because of the dreadlocks, I had pictured Lee being black. The one of Snape looking out of the corner of his eyes made me think more of Sirius. ender From lj2d30 at gateway.net Thu Jan 25 01:55:25 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (Trina ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:55:25 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l9gg+jkch@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94o12d+hf9g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10543 My Top Three: 1. Albus Dumbledore 2. Hermione Granger 3. Percy Weasley. My House Orders 1. Ravenclaw 2. Gryffindor 3. Hufflepuff 4. Slytherin I was rather surprised about the Dumbledore and Percy, but was quite pleased with my house rankings... Trina From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 02:08:16 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:08:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ancient Magic (was Re: something else from the graveyard) References: <94nt0u+5a6d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F8A90.26E44B21@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10544 allisondek at yahoo.com wrote: > I've read that JK Rowling is familiar with the Narnia books. > Is any connection between the "ancient magic" that protects Harry > while he is with his relations, and the "deep magic from the dawn of > Time" and, I believe, "deeper magic from before the dawn of Time" > that are found in "the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe"? Only, I believe, in that it was an old, underlying magic, it was overlooked (or not known about) by the Bad Guy, and it gives the good side an edge. --Amanda From melssa99 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 02:16:59 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:16:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10545 Keith wrote: > >Why isn't Harry, son of two of the best students at Hogwarts, one of >whom managed to become an Animagus at age 15, a better wizard? >Academically he seems a fairly ordinary Joe, certainly compared to >Hermione, even if he is extremely brave and brilliant at Quidditch. > I think he excels at certain things. He was able to conjure up an excellent patronus even though that is beyond OWLs. And he also good at other Defense Against the Dark Arts. He is getting better at Charms with each book, he seems to be competent enouch in herbology. And as for the rest, Prof. Binns could put anyone to sleep, Harry performs well with magical creatures (i.e. first time he met a hippogriff), and he does well in herbology. The others are Divination with professor Trelawney, and she just seems to spend all of their classes predicting Harry's death. As for Potions, he doesn't stand a chance at fairness. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 02:18:20 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:18:20 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94nmdi+2sg6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94o2dc+rcim@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10546 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote: > However, if Harry is your plain ordinary common-or-garden > everyday bog-standard wizard, why did Voldemort want to kill him in > the first place? I suppose the resistance-to-Avada-Kedavra-spell-in- > development theory kind of covers that. But if Harry is in fact > perfectly normal and what saved him at age 1 was something his > parents did, it means his fame and veneration has been entirely > undeserved...something that could be very messy. I think I may have found a hole in the "resistance-to-Avada-Kedavra- spell-in-development" (RTAKSID) theory. >From PS - "The Man with Two Faces": 'I always value bravery ... Yes, boy, your parents were brave ... I killed your father first and he put up a courageous fight ... but your mother needn't have died ... she died trying to protect you ... Now give me the stone' etc. It seems to me from this that Voldemort only really needed to kill Harry and James. If the RTAKSID theory is to hold then he would have only needed to kill Lily and James. If the Super-Harry theory is to hold then he would only have needed to kill Harry and he would have said that both his parents needn't have died. The Trelawney/first prediction and unicorn/infant theories however can be merged together at this point to provide a GRAND UNIFIED THEORY OF EVERYTHING which covers the four bases already established; that Voldemort needed to kill Harry (base one) and James (base two) but not Lily (base three) and the reason behind V losing his powers (base four). Suppose we take the elements of the Trelawney/first prediction theory which are that Prof. Trelawneys first prediction was that Harry would lead to Voldemorts downfall hence Vs reason to kill him; bases one and three are covered. Then we refine it to make it more vague in that she said it would be a male of the Potter line (vague being fairly common in divination), this covers base two. Now we bring in the Unicorn/Infant theory for a home run. In response to Keith's point about Harry being undeserving of his fame, well... maybe. Just look at Guilderoy Lockhart and Robbie Williams, fame isn't always placed on those deserving. The truth is out there and one day we will find it. Please pick holes in this theory, it's so much fun patching them up. Dai From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 02:27:18 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:27:18 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie References: Message-ID: <3A6F8F06.2C32C9F8@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10547 Stephanie Weasley wrote: > Stephanie > Off to watch Sense and Sensibility to tide me over...whilst pretending he is > snape...no no, that wont work, oh well Try Robin Hood, but invest the Sherriff with a bit more dignity and less lecherosity (oooh, good word! Did I invent it?). Unless you're of the "BYOS"* stripe. --Amanda *Bring Your Own Shampoo From neilward at dircon.co.uk Thu Jan 25 01:57:44 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:57:44 -0000 Subject: Why all the ships?/Welcome to new members (admin) References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010124160815.009e4530@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <00ad01c08672$4b3608c0$3d3570c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10548 Hello and welcome to all our newest members! Erin asked for an explanation of the 'shipping' references in some of the recent posts (and she's probably not the only new member left a little bemused by our 'debate'!): Shipping refers to relationshipping: i.e. wanting to see two HP characters romantically entwined. You'll have noticed that we have particularly fervent support in this group for H/H (Harry/Hermione) and R/H (Ron/Hermione). **POINTERS FOR NEWBIES** You can find a list of acronyms and 'shorthand' terms (including shipping), and other interesting information, in the Files section of this club (on the web), which you will find here: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/ Note: The Portkey file at the top of that list will take you to some of our sister clubs and to a few non-relatives that we recommend heartily. Here's the direct link to that: http://www.egroups.com/files/HPforGrownups/++Portkey.html You might also want to take a look at some other areas: Polls: http://www.egroups.com/polls/HPforGrownups Links: http://www.egroups.com/links/HPforGrownups Database: http://www.egroups.com/database/HPforGrownups For tips on netiquette: http://www.egroups.com/message/HPforGrownups/9221 (please note, in addition, that OT discussions or asides of a political nature are banned. Thanks for cooperating on this). Just for good measure, here's our general welcome message again (just in case you thought you'd been diverted into some sort of nautical roleplaying group): http://www.egroups.com/message/HPforGrownups/9141 Read all that lot, and you're sorted, mate! We hope you'll enjoy our friendly, analytical and sometimes downright bizarre discussions on the Harry Potter universe. In the words of our old and frayed friend: "Our heads could do with filling With some interesting stuff, For now they're bare and full of air, Dead flies and bits of fluff" Neil Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 02:29:40 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:29:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hagrid's house References: <94nmug+p8q@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F8F94.55EC4BFB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10549 Becky Penar wrote: > I think my question got lost in my response to sorting & characters, > but does anyone know which house Hagrid was in?? If I had to guess, I > would say Hufflepuff, seeing as he is sooooooooooo loyal to Big D. > And I would think that if he was in Slytherin, it would have been > brought up somewhere in CoS when Harry, Hermione & Ron were supecting > him...hmmmm...anyone??? Sorry, I had to wade through lots of old email first. Hagrid was in Gryffindor, I think Jo said so in an interview someplace. I don't recall if interview/chat transcripts were posted on the group site--listfolk? Do you remember where she said this? It was in November or December, wasn't it? --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 02:31:27 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:31:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) References: <94nu6u+pstb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F8FFE.F8C79FFA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10550 Charmian wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" > wrote: > > Why isn't Harry, son of two of the best students at Hogwarts, one > of > > whom managed to become an Animagus at age 15, a better wizard? > > Academically he seems a fairly ordinary Joe, certainly compared to > > Hermione, even if he is extremely brave and brilliant at Quidditch. > > I don't think he is necessarily a bad wizard. We know that Hermione's > truly brilliant, and that Crabbe and Goyle aren't that bright, but we > don't know exactly where Harry stands in his class academically. It's not all academics. Harry's got an innate ability to fly, which is apparently quite impressive--a World Cup commenter (Bagman) and an international Quidditch star (Krum) both mention it. --Amanda From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Jan 25 02:36:00 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:36:00 EST Subject: Merchandise Message-ID: <5e.64c20f5.27a0eb10@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10551 In a message dated 1/22/2001 9:22:32 PM Pacific Standard Time, summers.65 at osu.edu writes: << On the merchandise topic, since posting my list I've acquired a few more things... >> There is also this really cool miniature lunchbox about a third the size of a normal one. Kinda cute:) ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 02:41:43 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:41:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Japanese fanart References: <94nmfp+83n8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6F9267.B13444A9@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10552 Thanks for the link, Gaynor! Severus Snape looks far too much like Elrond from the Rankin/Bass "The Hobbit." McGonagall's too young-looking. And Voldemort's nose is too pointy. But I love the kids! Especially Neville. Looking at the adults, I'm wondering if the Japanese tend to perceive age using the same cues as Westerners--the ages I "get" from the pictures aren't the ages I think of the characters as being, but maybe they're right for Japan. Thoughts? --Amanda Gaynor Thomas wrote: > Teek wrote: > > > if you hit the links button at the bottom, the ...second link has > > some more HP art, if you look around for it, including comic strips, > > which are facinating to try to figure out what scenes they're > > illustrating. If anyone can find additional art by following the > > first link, could you post how? There's a "Harry Potter" link, but > > the rest appears to be all Japanese text. > > > > The three sites listed in the links section of this page all have HP > pictures. But some of the pictures are a bit hard to find unless you > can read Japanese, so here is some help: > > http://www.ne.jp/asahi/miraiken/aliel/haripota/harrypotter.html > > Click on 1-6 for pictures > Bottom link- "Go>>>" - takes you to another page with more links to > pictures. > > http://www.geocities.co.jp/Bookend/4822/harry/harry0.html#Anchor-49575 > > A picture of Harry appears as the background to this page: the rest > of site is text only. > > http://www.alpha-net.ne.jp/users2/akuru/harrypotter/har.index.htm > > Lots of pictures here: click on the (japanese) links listed > under "Illust" and "Comic" > > The illustrations seem to be of PS/SS and CoS, which are the only > books to have been translated into Japanese so far, I think. PoA is > out in English in Japan, but GoF is definitely not available there as > I have spent vast sums of money shipping hardback copies of GoF to > British and Canadian friends in Hiroshima! > > Firebolt wrote: > > > my only nit is that they're not always > > > canon-accurate > > > (Hermione's hair being blond in a few pics, Lee Jordan with short > > > hair instead > > > of dreadlocks...). Very cool, though. > > There is a bit of confusion about the dreadlocks in a (Japanese- > language) discussion on the page. Someone complains of the lack of > dreadlocks in Lee's picture, and has obviously read the book in > English, but someone else replied asking her what "dreadlocks" are, > so maybe they *aren't* in the Japanese-language edition. Thinking > back, I didn't see any dreadlocks during my time in Japan, so maybe > they aren't common. I just ordered HP in Japanese so perhaps I'll be > able to find out soon ;) > > Hope the link information is of help. > > Gaynor xx > > (shaking at having the daring to do my first-ever delurk!) > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 02:57:24 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 02:57:24 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <94aiid+3bhl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94o4mk+vj35@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10553 In other words, 6,000 if there are three hundred students. We're not far apart. (Me 5,000 or less). Neither of us have adjusted for muggle-borns like Hermione; we can't without knowing how many. So the wizard population would be even lower. --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, rhodhry at y... wrote: > Some time ago I calculated that the number of wizards in a country > would be roughly 20 times the number of Hogwarts-aged students. I > based it on demographical data from Norway and Scotland. The > spreadsheet was in the files-section, but seems to have been removed > now. I believe (but am not certain) that I have it on a diskette > somewhere. Should I repost it again, if I find it? > [snip] From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 02:59:48 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 18:59:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 491 Message-ID: <20010125025948.3936.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10554 >Try Robin Hood, but invest the Sherriff with a bit >more dignity and less lecherosity Oh, yes. I'm a teenager and I can appriciate how sexy he was in this Also- Hi, all. I tend to not be the lurking sort, so you'll probably hear more from me. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 03:00:17 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:00:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10555 >Try Robin Hood, but invest the Sherriff with a bit more dignity and less >lecherosity (oooh, good word! Did I invent it?). Unless you're of the >"BYOS"* >stripe. > >--Amanda > >*Bring Your Own Shampoo Ha Ha Ha Ha, do you know what i did today about 5 minutes after starting sense and sensibility? I decided it wouldnt work, and bc i didnt happen to own Robin Hood, so I hopped in my car and went out and bought it I just thought it was rather funny... Anyways, I thought of another scene I want to see in the movies.... -Ron burping up slugs everywhere....ha ha ha ha Stephanie Who has decided that Malfoy loves her instead of Fred....maybe it is just my mood? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 03:08:08 2001 From: fredweasleylovesme at hotmail.com (Stephanie Weasley) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:08:08 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Japanese fanart Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10556 Heidi Wrote: Lee isn't described as having dreadlocks until GoF. I also noticed that some pix of Draco which I found in links from those pages have him with very very dark hair - which makes sense if PoA is recently out or not out yet, as it's not until then that JKR says his air is silvery blond. I am not sure about Draco and his silvery hair, i thought i rember that from Cos, bus as to Lee's dreadlocks, they are mentioned in Book one, the very first scene at Platform 9 and 3/4. "A boy with Dreadlocks was surrounded by a small crowd" "Give us a Look, Lee, Go on." Stephanie Who wishes Lee talked more _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 03:15:24 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:15:24 -0000 Subject: To view or not to view (was HP - The Movie O.S.T) In-Reply-To: <94d0u5+2umt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94o5oc+7aqj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10557 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: So who should do the music? I think Enneo Morricone is dead> Caius: "Ennio Morricone is alive and well (at least he was last I checked) his latest filmscore was for Brian DePalma's Mission to Mars which came out last spring." I wish I could call Morricone's work to mind. I think Hogwarts is timeless (as someone else said here) and the score should not be contemporary. It should evoke a connection to the traditions of magic; perhaps sound somewhat Celtic. I thought Patrick Doyle would have been a good choice. When I heard it was John Williams I was afraid the movie would be bombastic and grandiose as the music. Amy:"I'm so glad he's still with us! Okay, then. First choice Morricone, second choice Knopfler (who's influenced by Morricone BTW), 75th choice Williams.CM, I'd like to know why you intend not to see the movie. I have a lot of pros and cons going around my own head but I know when it comes down to it I'll be in line--AND that I'll be disappointed. Heck, I'm eagerly awaiting the first trailer (I almost never go to the movies, though, so I'll probably miss it)." I will go see it, partly because I have two young daughters and I won't be able to say no. I am ambivalent because I don't want to reward Warner Brothers in the not unlikely event they slaughter the story. I *hate* being a willing victim. I don't want to ruin the future books for my kids, but that's probably impossible. From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Jan 25 03:23:38 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:23:38 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10558 Here was mine. Cute quiz. # 1 Harry Potter # 2 Albus Dumbledore # 3 Minerva McGonagall # 4 Bill Weasley # 5 Charlie Weasley # 6 Rubeus Hagrid # 7 Fred/George Weasley # 8 Remus Lupin # 9 Hermione Granger ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 03:27:33 2001 From: StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com (Stephanie Malfoy) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:27:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownUps] OT: So many email accounts.... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10559 So, this is the 3rd time i have switched emails again, but i just thought i would let everyone know...I am no newbie Anyways, I decided that while Fred would make a GREAT best friend, I would get along so much better with Malfoy...mua ha ha ha....thank all that leather OK, yeah, thats it, this was pointless, and I am sorry for adding to the clutter, oh well... Stephanie Praying she does not catch bacterial meningitis...as it is going around, and all of the teams from my High School are playing all of the teams from the "problem areas" and coming back looking tired and claiming to be nauseous _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 03:27:04 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 03:27:04 -0000 Subject: Ancient Magic (was Re: something else from the graveyard) In-Reply-To: <94nt0u+5a6d@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94o6e8+q81g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10560 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, allisondek at y... wrote: > Greetings > > I've read that JK Rowling is familiar with the Narnia books. > Is any connection between the "ancient magic" that protects Harry > while he is with his relations, and the "deep magic from the dawn of > Time" and, I believe, "deeper magic from before the dawn of Time" > that are found in "the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe"? > > Allison The "old magic" concept runs all through fantasy literature, from Narnia to the Lord of the Rings right through LeGuin and Arthurian legend, where Merlin represents the old ways of the Druids. Old magic is like an element compared to a creation of science, something that exists without being shaped by man. In Harry, the love of a mother for her child is so fundamental there is no spell for it, no incantation, and no need for a wand. It just *is*, and always was, long before wizards devised spells. In LOTR, Gandalf faces the ancient evil of the Balrog, creature of Morgoth, older than Sauron; and in LeGuin's Wizard of Earthsea Ged faces the old magic that holds a young priestess. From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Jan 25 03:37:24 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:37:24 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Quiz results! Message-ID: <93.6019184.27a0f974@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10561 In a message dated 1/23/2001 6:25:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, meiko00 at earthlink.net writes: << http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat >> This was mine....again. Very cute:) # 1 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring # 2 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal # 3 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 4 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From malinaschick at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 03:46:17 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:46:17 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sorting Hat and etc. Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10562 I went and took the sorting hat quiz, wondering which room hogwarts would want me in. I've always fancied Ravenclaw, but it ends up this is my order: # 1 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring # 2 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal # 3 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 4 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian Which is perfectly fine with me. Now I can be with Harry, Hermione, and my Ron. :) I finished reading PoA this morning over breakfast. When I joined this list I found everyone saying that they enjoyed Sirius and thought he would be very sexy as a real person. I was like, alrite, never really thought about it. Well, when I read the end this morning and last night I was just like, woah...they don't make men like this. ;) As I read the ending it made me think of something though. We never really said goodbye to Wood, and it was his last year. That made me wonder, doesn't Hogwarts have some sort of a graduation for their 7th year students? Some wizards go to higher schooling, right? So, don't they have to graduate? Or is there something during the dinner? Of course, after finishing PoA I broke into GoF for the second time finally. I'm so excitied. But the first chapter disturbs me. Not so much the end, but the beginning and I can't remember if it's resolved in the end or not. How can Tom Riddle die? It says that Tom Riddle dies. Am I misunderstanding or what? Tom Riddle is Lord Voldemort, how could he die in the book? That's all I've got for now....Let me know what you all think. Thanks! @~~~ Steph "I never betrayed James and Lily. I would have died before I betrayed them." -Sirius (That was one of the lines that melted me down...*sob!*) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Jan 25 03:47:47 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:47:47 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] prop on sale at ebay Message-ID: <55.104abd03.27a0fbe3@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10563 In a message dated 1/24/2001 11:05:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu writes: << Not just any prop - this is purporting to be the first letter to harry: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1404862608 >> I would be very careful about purchasing anything off of ebay insisting that it is original and from the set. WB is very careful and very secretive about anything HP related. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 04:04:22 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (Scott ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:04:22 -0000 Subject: Various topics...including the recent ship festivities Message-ID: <94o8k6+jqls@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10564 Hi all! I FINALLY caught up on all the messages from yesterday and today. Sometimes I would love not to be so busy, and between school, our theatre's spring production of "Oklahoma", and all of my OTHER duties and responsiblities (not to mention this club)...I COULD go on but lets just say I could use one of Hermione's time-turners. Let me just say that I've laughed my head off over the recent shipping posts. I feel sorry for the new member's who know nothing about shipping (and are most likely taking it literally...hopefully not!). BTW, I'm honoured to be considered one of the first mates on our ship, but I really don't deserve it. When does she leave Southampton? (I'm right arnen't I? This IS a transatlantic voyage) You know, when I think about it there actually could be a HP cruise...I've heard such a thing before. The author is on board and fans are able to interact with him/her. Maybe someone should contact Bloomsbury (OT, but is this correctly pronounced BLOOMS-brie -or- BLOOMS-berry) or Scholastic. Will the lucky couple be joining us on board? Hmmm, even so I doubt we will see much of them. They'll be secluded in the Honeymoon suite of course! On a completely different topic...I think the Harry/Unicorn theory that Kimberly introduced is really interesting and entirely plausible! It is SO simple and IMO the simple theories tend to be more in tune with the canon so far. Well I'd better sign off... Scott (who is retiring from his postiton as the what-da-ya-call-it and conviently ignores the SOS from the Good Ship R/H. Ship? What Ship? :-) From msl at fc.net Thu Jan 25 04:08:25 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:08:25 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94o8rp+j8fr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10565 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "yael oren" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marvin Long > > > Alas, a measly 24% for me. Oh well, if it had been Star Wars I > would've scored in the 90s, I'm pretty sure, and I've had nearly 24 > years to work on *that* obsession...but only 3 weeks for Harry Potter. > > marvin > > > Oh, Thank you! I was afraid to reveal my 27%, last i get kicked from the list... :) And i scored higher than you! > yael *goes off with little dance steps* Just goes to show, no matter how low you sink you can always find somebody else to gloat over. :-P marvin From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 25 04:10:00 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:10:00 -0000 Subject: Bounce Off The Wall (filk) Message-ID: <94o8uo+sd1k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10566 Bounce Off The Wall (from GoF, Chap. 13) (To the tune of Walk Like a Man ? and feel free to sing along ? just follow the bouncing ferret!) (THE SCENE: The Gryffindor Table in the Great Hall. HARRY, RON and HERMIONE are relating to their friends the events that just transpired between themselves, Draco Malfoy, MAD-EYE MOODY and MINERVA McGONAGALL) HARRY That Draco tried to split me open wide Casting sneaky spells behind my back But then said my DADA...... (Dissolve to the Entrance Hall, where the events in question took place. A large crowd of students is assembled) MOODY ............Hey there, Malfoy, nada! - I don't like your cowardly attacks! (MOODY transfigures Malfoy into a ferret, and bounces him in time with the music) It's time to..... MOODY, HARRY & RON Bounce off the wall! Bounce down the hall! Bounce in the shape of a creature quite small Serve your demerit doin' time as a ferret And don't even try to run, son (Dissolve back to the Great Hall. RON continues the narrative) RON It looked like ol' Draco had at last met his Waco It couldn't get any better than this A crowd we were drawin' and we were all guffawin' Until McGonagall said..... (Dissolve back to the Entrance Hall) McGONAGALL (to Moody) ........What's all this? You've got to..... McGONAGALL & HERMIONE Not bounce him here! You'll get bounced on your ear If this incident is reviewed by your peers! Report him to Snape, but change back his shape! Now make Malfoy be a boy, ..oy! (The ferret becomes Malfoy again, somewhat the worse for wear. Exit all) - CM "I have a life!" C (27% obsessed ? how can I be overly obsessed with Harry Potter when I'm so busy thinking up rhymes for Hufflepuff and Kedrava?) From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 25 04:02:59 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:02:59 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns References: <006801c084b0$f92a8dc0$5551d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A6FA573.67990F9@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10567 Hi -- Before this topic dies away .... Carole Estes wrote: > Hermione: She shows a lot of maturity in this chapter. First in how she > limits Ron's boasting, second in her reaction to Snape's taunts, and third in > the cave, she seems much more at ease, self-assured when expressing an > opinion. This contrasts to Ron who seems to be wanting to impress Sirius with > his ideas. I agree -- I thought Hermione showed alot of poise & maturity in this chapter. She handles the taunts of both Snape & the Slytherins with dignity & wit. > Ron: He is being the most typically adolescent of the trio. He exaggerates > his role in the second task, he's jealous about Hermione and Krum, and he just > seems to try too hard in the conversations with Sirius in the cave. He seems > to be discounting Hermione's statements so that his own seem more intelligent > and perceptive. That was my feeling too: that Ron was trying too hard and beating down Hermione's opinions & observations to try & build up his own. I can't remember -- is this before or after Moody tells Hermione she'd make a good auror too? > He shows that he thinks enough of these kids that he can explain what the > Voldemort years were like. He trusts them and they trust him. I liked this bit about Sirius for that reason. He wasn't treating them like "kids," but as equals. He listens carefully to all their thoughts. > 2. What do you think of Ron in this chapter. Was he coming across as trying > too hard to impress everyone, between the other students with his tall tale > about battling the merpeople and trying to discount Hermione's observations > during the cave discussions. As I noted above, I think so. I think he needs to just notch it down a little bit. He's too competitive with Hermione IMO (and ... no.... I'm not about to digress into a shipping argument. I'll resist that temptation). > 3. What about Hermione. Is she showing more maturity than typical of her age? Yes, but she always has (IMO). I, like Marvin, think she's "way cool." :--) Penny From msl at fc.net Thu Jan 25 04:14:21 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:14:21 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94o96t+2gko@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10568 My goodness, Ms. Weasley, how do you find the *time* to be that obsessed about two things at once? (And where is that Star Wars quiz?) Out of curiosity, were you alive/conscious/old-enough-to-go in 1977 when the first movie came out? (A score like 140% suggests to me that duration of obsession might be my only edge.... :-) ) marvin --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Weasley" wrote: > > I finally took the second quiz, and guess what, still a good ol' 110%...I am > crazily obsessed. Marvin, there are Star Wars Quizes, i got 140% on that > one. But I think that this quiz needs a new question: > > Did your obsession for HP take over a previous obsession? > > Because ever since readin HP, i fell out of my readin star wars on loop and > watching the viedoes 375 times each....(It is scary bc....it is true) > > Stephanie > Who recommends anyone who desperately need something to read until Book 5 to > run out and Buy Something by John Irving, spec. A Prayer for Owen Meany or > The World Acccording to Garp > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From klaatu at primenet.com Thu Jan 25 04:19:41 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 21:19:41 -0700 Subject: Lily Evans Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10569 I saw this question earlier today, but no one seems to have answered it yet. Someone asked where we got the fact that Lily's maiden name was Evans. J.K. Rowling revealed this in an online chat or interview recently -- someone asked her and that's what she replied. Evans is a very common Welsh name, and we've already pretty much decided that Godric's Hollow is in South Wales, based on the path that Hagrid took from Godric's Hollow to Little Whinging in the first chapter of Philosopher's Stone/Sorcerer's Stone. ("Harry fell asleep over Bristol"). An Aside: I still wonder where Harry and Hagrid were all day, since the Potters were killed on Halloween evening, Hagrid says he got Harry out of the ruined house before the Muggles came around, but it wasn't until late evening of the following day that Harry arrived on Privet Drive. SML *********************************************** When I am an Evil Empress: #22. My Amazon Hordes will wear full body armor, rather than three small triangles of chain mail, which are reserved for dress occasions. ************************************************ From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 25 04:16:43 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:16:43 -0600 Subject: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) References: <94nn9a+3eod@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6FA8AB.271A6111@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10570 Hi -- Well .... despite all the recent discussions, I guess I still subscribe to the Super-Harry theory. Here's one of the things that stands out in my mind: Hagrid (from Ch 4 of SS): ""Most of us reckon he's still out there somewhere but lost his powers. Too weak to carry on. 'Cause somethin' about you finished him, Harry. There was somethin' going on that night he hadn't counted on -- I dunno what it was, no one does -- but somethin' about you stumped him, all right." Something about *Harry* that Voldemort hadn't counted on and that stumped him. I do agree that he gets alot of help along his way in each book, but it's Harry alone who fights the final battle each time. Keith Fraser wrote: > Why isn't Harry, son of two of the best students at Hogwarts, one of > whom managed to become an Animagus at age 15, a better wizard? > Academically he seems a fairly ordinary Joe, certainly compared to > Hermione, even if he is extremely brave and brilliant at Quidditch. > > I thought of this while trying to hold up the super-Harry theory. I > believe it may, just may, support it. Possibly James and Lily's > abilities have combined to make Harry immensely powerful on an > instinctive/higher level which he hasn't learned how to access yet. I think this is very possible. I don't necessarily know if it's because of his being the offspring of James & Lily, but I think he has alot of untapped potential that we'll see more of in the coming books. Penny From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Jan 25 04:31:06 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 20:31:06 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <013701c0859f$aa232c60$27479cac@shelley> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010124202207.03683260@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10571 Here are my results: # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Rubeus Hagrid # 3 Charlie Weasley # 4 Remus Lupin # 5 Ron Weasley # 6 Sirius Black # 7 Voldemort(!) # 8 Neville Longbottom # 9 Bill Weasley # 10 Albus Dumbledore # 11 Percy Weasley # 12 Fred/George Weasley # 13 Harry Potter # 14 Minerva McGonagall # 15 Draco Malfoy # 16 Severus Snape Yay! Malfoy and Snape are rock bottom! But Voldy at #7?? I agree-- There needs to be a "Are you a mass-murdering psychopath?" question. In my heart of hearts I think I'm most like Hagrid... Maybe that's why he's my favorite character. As for Houses, I'm a marginal Ravenclaw-Hufflepuff... The Sorting Hat would find me tricky to place. -- Dave From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 25 04:20:49 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 22:20:49 -0600 Subject: Star Wars & Ships References: <94nnob+a262@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A6FA9A1.7D1F16F6@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10572 Hi -- ebonyink at hotmail.com wrote: > > Oh, Ebony, darling, it will never be enough...but don't worry, the > Good Ship R/H will be there to rescue you from the iceberg! > > > > LOL! Come on, Kathy, you know I'd rather drown! "Alas, poor Ebony, > we knew her well." Me too! (Aside: but *not* pregnant with my 3rd child as FFA has mapped out -- that would be very irresponsible & immoral). > Fun though Neil's scenario was, this sink won't ship. Unless, of > course, JKR is George Lucas in disguise and Harry and Hermione are > siblings--in which case we are nicely covered by the disclaimer in our > charter. :::giggling hysterically::: I thought of another reason why Harry and Hermione cannot be siblings. Sirius would *know* this, wouldn't he????! Besides, lots of people (I'm not one of them) think that graduation from Hogwarts -- marriage -- baby Harry happened in very short order. Hardly time in that scenario to have another baby. And, this theory is especially undercut if Hermione is in fact 2 months younger than Harry rather than 10 months older. Nope ... there's no way they are siblings. Penny From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 25 04:55:48 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 04:55:48 -0000 Subject: Voldemort the evil overlord In-Reply-To: <94ghpa+uioj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94obkk+4g8g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10573 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, " Charmian" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Flourish > wrote: > > Amanda said: > > > > > Not necessarily. Melodrama is not as predictable as > > > practicality, because > > > melodrama requires the ego to do grand, glorious, > > > weird things which make > > > sense only to the ego, and are viciously hard to > > > predict or guard against. > > > > Hmmm. I'm going to be contrarian here and argue against evil > overlordism in a general sense. I'd have to argue that being a > flamboyant, cape-wearing, mwa-ha-ha-ha, pointless-bravadoing, > irrational supervillain is overdone in fiction, and is indeed > predictable. The following passage may be of interest. - CMC [begin quote] It is permissible to portray evildoers in a story for children, so as to keep the picture simple. But when the great world literature of the past ? Shakespeare, Schiller, Dickens ? inflates and inflates images of evildoers of the blackest shades, it seems somewhat farcical and clumsy to our modern perception. The trouble lies in the way these classic evildoers are depicted. They recognize themselves as evildoers, and they know their souls are black. And they reason, "I cannot live unless I do evil. So I'll set my father against my brother. I'll drink the victim's suffering until I am drunk with them!" Iago very precisely identifies his purposes and his motives as being black and born of hate. But no; that's not the way it is! To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he is doing is good, or else that it's a well-considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is in the nature of a human being to seek a justification for his actions. Macbeth's self-justifications were feeble ? and his conscience devoured him. Yes, even Iago was a little lamb too. The imagination and spiritual strength of Shakespeare's evildoers stopped short at a dozen corpses. Because they had no ideology. Ideology ? that is what gives evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory that helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes, so that he won't hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors. That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late) by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations. Thanks to ideology, the twentieth century was fated to experience evildoing on a scale calculated in the millions .[Ideology] is the precise line the Shakespearean evildoer cannot cross. But the evildoer with ideology does cross it, and his eyes remain dry and clear. - Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago, Book I, Chapter 4 From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 06:13:51 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 00:13:51 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bounce Off The Wall (filk) References: <94o8uo+sd1k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <009301c08695$fd9abec0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 10574 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,yes....dissolves into various sounds of hooting, chortling, and otherwise neighbor annoying loud noises (such as sound effects off "who let the dogs out")! You've done it again.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caius Marcius" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 10:10 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Bounce Off The Wall (filk) Bounce Off The Wall (from GoF, Chap. 13) (To the tune of Walk Like a Man - and feel free to sing along - just follow the bouncing ferret!) (THE SCENE: The Gryffindor Table in the Great Hall. HARRY, RON and HERMIONE are relating to their friends the events that just transpired between themselves, Draco Malfoy, MAD-EYE MOODY and MINERVA McGONAGALL) HARRY That Draco tried to split me open wide Casting sneaky spells behind my back But then said my DADA...... (Dissolve to the Entrance Hall, where the events in question took place. A large crowd of students is assembled) MOODY ............Hey there, Malfoy, nada! - I don't like your cowardly attacks! (MOODY transfigures Malfoy into a ferret, and bounces him in time with the music) It's time to..... MOODY, HARRY & RON Bounce off the wall! Bounce down the hall! Bounce in the shape of a creature quite small Serve your demerit doin' time as a ferret And don't even try to run, son (Dissolve back to the Great Hall. RON continues the narrative) RON It looked like ol' Draco had at last met his Waco It couldn't get any better than this A crowd we were drawin' and we were all guffawin' Until McGonagall said..... (Dissolve back to the Entrance Hall) McGONAGALL (to Moody) ........What's all this? You've got to..... McGONAGALL & HERMIONE Not bounce him here! You'll get bounced on your ear If this incident is reviewed by your peers! Report him to Snape, but change back his shape! Now make Malfoy be a boy, ......oy! (The ferret becomes Malfoy again, somewhat the worse for wear. Exit all) - CM "I have a life!" C (27% obsessed - how can I be overly obsessed with Harry Potter when I'm so busy thinking up rhymes for Hufflepuff and Kedrava?) To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From aichambaye at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 05:27:06 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 05:27:06 -0000 Subject: Sorting Hat and etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94odfa+hqjq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10575 Hi Steph! Sorry if someone has already answered. > Hogwarts have some sort of a graduation for their 7th year students? Some > wizards go to higher schooling, right? So, don't they have to graduate? Or > is there something during the dinner? Good point!! I never thought of that. Hmmmmmmmmm. >How > can Tom Riddle die? It says that Tom Riddle dies. Am I misunderstanding or > what? Tom Riddle is Lord Voldemort, how could he die in the book? > Tom Marvolo Riddle was named after his father, Tom Riddle. You-know- who murdered his Dad and paternal Grandparents - Nice guy eh? BTW, I also finished PoA and broke into GoF for the second time today! Heather M., who bought all sorts of cool HP Stuff this afternoon. From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 05:44:15 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 05:44:15 -0000 Subject: Bounce Off The Wall (filk) In-Reply-To: <94o8uo+sd1k@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94oefg+uq69@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10576 *howling w/ laughter* THAT is FANTASTIC! Oh MAAN! Another little ditty bouncin' around my wee brain! <;o) B I G B I G O N O N Bouncin' on.... Christy ========================= --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Caius Marcius" wrote: > Bounce Off The Wall (from GoF, Chap. 13) > > (To the tune of Walk Like a Man ? and feel free to sing along > ? just follow the bouncing ferret!) > > (THE SCENE: The Gryffindor Table in the Great Hall. HARRY, RON and > HERMIONE are relating to their friends the events that just > transpired between themselves, Draco Malfoy, MAD-EYE MOODY and > MINERVA McGONAGALL) > > HARRY > That Draco tried to split me open wide > Casting sneaky spells behind my back > But then said my DADA...... > > (Dissolve to the Entrance Hall, where the events in question took > place. A large crowd of students is assembled) > > MOODY > ............Hey there, Malfoy, nada! - > I don't like your cowardly attacks! > > (MOODY transfigures Malfoy into a ferret, and bounces him in time > with the music) > > It's time to..... > > MOODY, HARRY & RON > Bounce off the wall! > Bounce down the hall! > Bounce in the shape of a creature quite small > Serve your demerit doin' time as a ferret > And don't even try to run, son > > (Dissolve back to the Great Hall. RON continues the narrative) > > RON > It looked like ol' Draco had at last met his Waco > It couldn't get any better than this > A crowd we were drawin' and we were all guffawin' > Until McGonagall said..... > > (Dissolve back to the Entrance Hall) > > McGONAGALL (to Moody) > ........What's all this? > You've got to..... > > McGONAGALL & HERMIONE > Not bounce him here! > You'll get bounced on your ear > If this incident is reviewed by your peers! > Report him to Snape, but change back his shape! > Now make Malfoy be a boy, > ..oy! > > (The ferret becomes Malfoy again, somewhat the worse for wear. Exit > all) > > - CM "I have a life!" C (27% obsessed ? how can I be > overly obsessed with Harry Potter when I'm so busy thinking up rhymes > for Hufflepuff and Kedrava?) From vderark at bccs.org Thu Jan 25 05:53:06 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 05:53:06 -0000 Subject: Lily Evans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94of02+qg1r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10577 > > An Aside: I still wonder where Harry and Hagrid were all day, since the > Potters were killed on Halloween evening, Hagrid says he got Harry out of > the ruined house before the Muggles came around, but it wasn't until late > evening of the following day that Harry arrived on Privet Drive. And where did he happen to run into McGonagall and tell her that Dumbledore would be heading for Privet Drive? She was there already fairly early in the morning, so he must have met up with her, oh, four or five in the morning? Okay, so he leaves Godric's Hollow at, say, eleven pm Halloween night, he flies to...somewhere, we don't know where, then a few hours later meets McGonagall and tells her about the planned rendezvous at Privet Drive but not the time, or she wouldn't have waited there all day, which means he must have encountered DUMBLEDORE somewhere before he met McGonagall to KNOW that Privet Drive was the place...and then what? A day of what? And where? Lots of unanswered questions. I'm getting cynical, though. Anyone checked any recent editions of PS/SS to see if they've just sneakily changed a few words around and "fixed" it? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which has a nice bit about this question in it http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 06:00:30 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:00:30 -0000 Subject: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A06265B.CC96B13E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94ofdu+l6hk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10578 Aloha! Have you seen the Snitch key ring? I was just in the Hallmark in my mall and saw it there. It's really cute! But when I picked it up (it was about the size of a large marble, it was heavy! I was surprised at the weight of it! I really wanted it but my keys are heavy enough without it! Hmmm...I wonder if the Warner Brothers in the mall has something similar but lighter....sheesh...as if I'm not already addicted enough (41% after only 3 weeks of being 'into' HP!) Oh well, off to feed my addictions! <:o) B I G B I G O N O N Chris =============== --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Ebony wrote: > > > Also, I am ordering the Quidditch sheet set for my guest bed. As I > > told the PoU list this weekend, this H/H shipper is quite happy that > > the pillowcases feature Harry on one side and Hermione on the > > other. :) > > I simply *must* have these! Are these through Warner Bros.? I haven't > seen them in my Warner Bros. store. I assume they're not through > Hallmark as sheets seems a bit odd for Hallmark to be marketing. > > Ebony forgot to note, as she did on the PoU list, that it sure seems > that Warner Bros (and Hallmark) are H/H shippers -- Ron is hardly to be > seen in the merchandise really. And, there are several items that are > very nice for the H/H shippers -- the sheets that Ebony mentioned > (), the H/H bookends, the H & H Dept 56 boxes, the H & H pewter > ornaments. I'm in H/H merchandise heaven!!!! > > I received 3 pewter ornaments (H, H & Dumbledore), several tin > bookmarks, the Gringotts bank, the Fat Lady bookends, the painted glass > Harry with Hedwig ornament and the collector's Sorcerer's Stone edition > for my birthday. Very happy. I think I will buy myself the H & H > bookends and the sheets now. The addiction continues . . . . > > Penny > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 25 06:02:37 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:02:37 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] All Aboard the Good Ship R/H Message-ID: <200101250606.f0P66pC14422@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10579 Mo wrote: >Aye, aye Cap'n. First mate Maureen reporting for duty! Welcome aboard! And just so the rest of you know, I have been assured by First Mate Mo that the rest of the R/H crew is merely hiding under their Invisibility Cloaks, saving their voices for the inevitable "We told you so!" that we will have occasion to shout. Mo >Kathy will never turn, she is way too strong. (Use the Force, Kathy) >Besides our uniforms are much nicer. :) She will make an excellent first mate. She knows her captain well. :) Mo >The SS H/H has packed on far too many passengers and not >nearly enough lifeboats.* You are all royally screwed. :) I also see >you all stranded on a deserted isle, episode after episode looking to be >rescued. Each week you are visited by a "Special R/H Guest" who somehow >manages to leave while you all remain there with your bizarre theories and >coconut telephones.... There's a fanfic in there, I think! (I'm giggling just thinking about it!) Mo >LOL Captain Kathy! Our Admiral, Joanne, will steer this ship on the right >course!! You got that right! We will navigate by the light of the JKR star and avoid all those icebergs that seem to be plaguing the SS H/H (or whatever it's being called at the moment) Batten down the hatches! An enemy ship approaches! It appears to be a yacht of some sort...and the crew are all wearing leather pants! It can't be...no, it is...the D/H! All hands on deck! Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee who wishes she had taken that sailing class in college just so she would have more good nautical metaphors to use for this entirely silly but very fun thread From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 06:08:50 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:08:50 +0000 Subject: News: "Potter around Britain" Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10580 This just in from EmpireOnline: http://www.empireonline.co.uk/news/news.asp?story=2868 Potter Around Britain 24/01/2001 The current locations of the filming in the UK of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone may be shrouded in secrecy, but the British Tourist Authority is gearing up for a big push once the movie is released. An official tourist trail is planned for next year, with the slogan 'Why Don't You Potter Around Britain?'. There are plenty of places for Potter spotters to choose from, with locations in London, Oxford, Berkshire, and Durham, among many others. With the huge success of the books internationally, it seems there would be no shortage of visitors to the UK who would want to see the places which doubled for Hogwarts, Gringotts and Picket Post Close. See http://www.visitbritain.com/moviemap/ for more details. So...planning for HPTour may not be all that hard! --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 25 06:14:04 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:14:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipping Party Boats ... Anyone for a Cruise?/menage a trois Message-ID: <200101250618.f0P6IKC15630@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10581 >===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== >Ebony wrote: > ><vocal H/Hers like to argue.>> And Rina responded: >Can't say much for the second point, but I'll contest the first one. As pretty much anyone who knows me expected. LOL It would be an...interesting...solution. I'll contest it too! I think it's an intriguing idea, and would love to see something from this point of view that's *balanced* (i.e. not just FITD masqerading as balanced). I don't mind this at all, as long as (let's all say it together) Ron doesn't get shunted aside. As for the second point, I think everyone on this list will agree! But I must point out that we "vocal R/Hers" like to argue too...it's just that there seem to be fewer of us... The Captain of the Good Ship R/H stares out at the still night waters, searching for the supply ship carrying hundreds of troops that she knows is on the way. At her shoulder, First Mate Mo smiles bracingly. "Don't worry Captain--they were probably just momentarily distracted by the glitz of the SS H/H. I mean, the swing music alone would be enough to turn anyone's head. But they soon realize that ship will sink." The Captain smiles, knowingly that, though the Good Ship R/H may have a slight list to port, its mighty canon (yes canon) will quell any foe. Kathy AKA Captain Elanor Gamgee who is apparently far too into this for her own good From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 25 06:19:20 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:19:20 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Cruise? Message-ID: <200101250623.f0P6NbC16147@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10582 Scott wrote: >You know, when I think about it there actually could be a HP >cruise...I've heard such a thing before. The author is on board and >fans are able to interact with him/her. Oooooooo, what a great idea. How much fun would that be? Although we'd have to make sure the H/Hers and the R/Hers were put in separate areas of the ship or trouble could arise. Though, come to think of it...stuck on the open sea with nowhere to run? Sounds like one of those sitcoms where the two charactesr who hate each other get stuck in an elevator together and come out friends (maybe *that's* how the Harry-Draco thing could be worked out...) Kathy AkA Elnaor Gangee who is apparently getting delirious and should probably go to sleep From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 06:26:49 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:26:49 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ancient Magic In-Reply-To: <94o6e8+q81g@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10583 Jim Ferer wrote: > The "old magic" concept runs all through fantasy literature, from > Narnia to the Lord of the Rings right through LeGuin and Arthurian > legend, where Merlin represents the old ways of the Druids. Old magic > is like an element compared to a creation of science, something that > exists without being shaped by man. In Harry, the love of a mother > for her child is so fundamental there is no spell for it, no > incantation, and no need for a wand. It just *is*, and always was, > long before wizards devised spells. In LOTR, Gandalf faces the > ancient evil of the Balrog, creature of Morgoth, older than Sauron; > and in LeGuin's Wizard of Earthsea Ged faces the old magic that holds > a young priestess. It's also found in David Eddings, but not under the "old magic" label -- rather, sorcerors are not allowed to "unmake" things. They can blow them up, scatter them into little bits or turn them into furry wombats, but they can't make them cease to exist. Robert Jordan also deals with it in that the 'higher power' of the Wheel of Time (i.e. Destiny, Fate) is seen throughout as immutable. Sure, Rand and chums can change it (especially "ta'veren", who are important people in the Pattern) but they can't stop it. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 06:28:54 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:28:54 -0000 Subject: The Kiss, Party Boats and the like In-Reply-To: <3A6F2EE9.53D2E456@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94oh36+asct@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10584 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > > Since Kathy posed a question about our side, can I likewise ask a question about > the R/H philosophy? My perception (could be wrong admittedly) is that the R/H > types seem to be defensive. I always get the impression that it's shocking & > bordering on sacrilege to even "suggest" that there might be the slightest > possibility that Hermione doesn't like Ron back (or that they might not last if > they do get together). Is this just a misimpression on my part? (honestly > curious ...) > Penny, I know as a newbie no-shipper I'm not the best person to respond to this, but as I came from and still have a certain affinity for the R/H ship's general philosophy, I thought I'd try. There might be something to what you're saying. Kathy mentioned that some R/Hers tell her they're uncomfortable posting here because the atmosphere seems against it. I have heard the same. Maybe they perceive that they have something to defend themselves against if they post about it? I'm not saying that anyone has gone out of their way to make them feel that way, or even realized it was happening, and I may well have misinterpreted it completely and nobody feels that way. I'm just trying to give my honest view of what I think I'm observing. Please, by all means R/Hers - correct me if I'm wrong! But as for defensiveness in general, I perceive it on both sides. But I think it's just the nature of being on two opposing sides of a debate. Your lawyer explanation speaks to this. You appear defensive when you make the repeated comeback arguments you mentioned. R/Hers probably seem defensive for the same reason - but it's part of debate - that's all! Maybe it's just that, being a lawyer, you're better at it that makes the R/Hers feel that way, or maybe it's the terminology that has been tossed around (disorders, destroyers, etc.). I'm quite happy myself that you've been steering away from them, because down here floating without a ship in the waters of ambiguous anticipation it's kinda scary to see two big ships face of in battle terms. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes - I don't mean to speak for one side or offend the other side, I just wanted to bring some things out in the open. Peace, kimberly From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 25 06:27:32 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:27:32 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Harry Problem? Message-ID: <200101250631.f0P6VoC17014@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10585 Cass wrote: > *raises eyebrow* Why? I've seen it termed "The Harry Problem" when >talking about R/H fic. Either way one member of the trio is going to >feel left out. Obviously Ron would have bigger issues than Harry, but >the issues remain nonetheless. Really? I have never seen once seen that term. Can anyone say more about this? I'm curious as to what people think the issues are with Harry, other than that he would feel left out if Ron and Hermione were to sneak around behind his back. I agree that the issues are there either way, and that's actually why I think the whole shipper debate is interesting enough to suck up hours of my time. Seriously, if it didn't cause issues, it probably wouldn't be interesting enough for fans to write thousands of fics about, right? Cass again: > I just have to say for my own self, and I think I speak for most >H/H'ers here, if Ron and Hermione do wind up 'together', it won't >diminish my enjoyment of the books at all. I'll just file it away >with the house elves under "distasteful subplots that I really could >do without, but will just ignore instead." And I'll still love the >books. And that's exactly how I would feel if it came out H/H. I would be disappointed if it went that way, because the whole hero-gets-the-girl thing kinda makes my skin crawl, and because, as we all know, I *love* Ron, but as Ebony said, if JKR makes it plausible, I'll go along with it. But it won't stop my from writing my own version of events either! Kathy AKA Captain Elanor of the Good Ship R/H From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 06:34:28 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:34:28 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source In-Reply-To: <3A6FA8AB.271A6111@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10586 Keith said: > I thought of this while trying to hold up the super-Harry theory. I > believe it may, just may, support it. Possibly James and Lily's > abilities have combined to make Harry immensely powerful on an > instinctive/higher level which he hasn't learned how to access yet. Magids! Yay! It's interesting that our two most highly-regarded works of fanfiction both take the "higher level" thing as part of their plots. Lori has the Mage thing going, and Cassie has the Magid thing. I'm going to be expanding on the latter in the Song of Time, so watch that space ;) Penny said: > Well .... despite all the recent discussions, I guess I still subscribe > to the Super-Harry theory. Here's one of the things that stands out in > my mind: > > Hagrid (from Ch 4 of SS): ""Most of us reckon he's still out there > somewhere but lost his powers. Too weak to carry on. 'Cause somethin' > about you finished him, Harry. There was somethin' going on that night > he hadn't counted on -- I dunno what it was, no one does -- but > somethin' about you stumped him, all right." > > Something about *Harry* that Voldemort hadn't counted on and that > stumped him. I have to disagree here, Penny. Canonically speaking, I can't see that Hagrid's statement makes much difference, one way or the other. Essentially, as much as we love him, poor old Hagrid has been kept out of the loop on things -- we see this most particularly in PoA and GoF. My guess would be that Hagrid (and most of the wizarding community) didn't know about the old magic that Dumbledore knows about, and so assumed that it's something about Harry. OMG, I'm disagreeing with Penny. Someone get a camera :) == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From kathleen at carr.org Thu Jan 25 06:47:58 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 01:47:58 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Defensiveness Message-ID: <200101250652.f0P6qJC19030@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10587 Penny wrote: >>I always get the impression that it's >shocking & >> bordering on sacrilege to even "suggest" that there might be the >slightest >> possibility that Hermione doesn't like Ron back (or that they might >not last if >> they do get together). Is this just a misimpression on my part? >(honestly >> curious ...) Well, Penny, I always get the impression that it's shocking and bordering on sacrilege to suggest that Hermione could possibly end up with anyone less than Harry (and since my feelings about Ron are probably pretty clear at this point, you know why I have more than one problem with that idea). But I think kimberly makes a very good point: both sides seem defensive to the other. As someone who started out as a (half-hearted) H/H shipper before being converted to the One True Faith , I can vouch for that: I saw the defensiveness in R/H posts then and I see it in H/H now. Just the nature of the beast I guess. And kimberly wrote: >There might be something to what you're saying. Kathy mentioned that >some R/Hers tell her they're uncomfortable posting here because the >atmosphere seems against it. I have heard the same. Maybe they >perceive that they have something to defend themselves against if >they post about it? I'm not saying that anyone has gone out of their >way to make them feel that way, or even realized it was happening, >and I may well have misinterpreted it completely and nobody feels >that way. I'm just trying to give my honest view of what I think I'm >observing. Please, by all means R/Hers - correct me if I'm wrong! No, I think you've got it, at least as far as I can tell. (Like I said before, I obviously don't feel the reluctance to post that most R/Hers seem too, since H/H-baiting is one of my favorite hobbies!). But the impression I get is that some people feel that this list is overwhelmingly H/H and that their comments will just be ignored. Of course, we all know that part of the solution would be for R/H-ERS TO POST MORE! (turns and barks at her crew, who are all looking shamedly at the deck) No, seriously, I think a big part of it is that we have...how many members now? It takes awhile to get up to speed and it's hard for new people to just feel like they can jump right in. It can be intimidating. I remember feeling that way myself when I first joined this group...in fact, I was just telling a Reluctant R/H Poster (there's another syndrome for you, Ebony!) that the moment I first truly felt welcome here was when I really ticked off Penny with my "H/H and Why It's Just Wrong" treatise last summer (grins at Penny, then ducks to avoid the several-inch thick printout of PoU Penny lobs at her head). All I am saying is that this group can be intimidating. I don't think anyone does it on purpose, and I don't know what the solution is (except maybe for R/HERS TO POST MORE!). kimberly: >or maybe it's the terminology that has been >tossed around (disorders, destroyers, etc.). I'm quite happy myself >that you've been steering away from them, because down here floating >without a ship in the waters of ambiguous anticipation it's kinda >scary to see two big ships face of in battle terms. Awww, now look, we've scared the no-shippers. That's not right. I think the SS H/H and the Good Ship R/H need to sign an armistice right away. Think of all the poor innocents down there in their inner tubes who could get hurt! kimberly: >I hope I'm not stepping on any toes - I don't mean to speak for one >side or offend the other side, I just wanted to bring some things out >in the open. And I thank you for that, as you said it much better than I did in my original post. And don't worry, everybody. Even if the H/H and R/H do fire on each other sometimes, rest assured it's just friendly fire. :) Kathy AKA Captain Elanor who is probably starting to develop delusions of grandeur From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 06:59:33 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 06:59:33 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94nmdi+2sg6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94oisl+10jqe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10588 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote:> > Yes, that is very true. I actually realised that after posting my > last message (or was it before and I forgot when I was posting? Never > mind). However, if Harry is your plain ordinary common-or-garden > everyday bog-standard wizard, why did Voldemort want to kill him in > the first place? This is where the self-fulfilling prophecy thing comes in. Let's say there was a prophecy that harry, or a potter man, or whatever, was going to cause V's downfall, and so he chose to try to kill him, this bringing about his downfall (because of the unicorn theory) and fulfilling the prophecy at the same time? It's such a neat little ball of yarn that way - that's why I like it! I suppose the resistance-to-Avada-Kedavra-spell-in- > development theory kind of covers that. I don't really buy that - I think it's still just the sacrifice of his mother that saved his life. But if Harry is in fact > perfectly normal and what saved him at age 1 was something his > parents did, it means his fame and veneration has been entirely > undeserved...something that could be very messy. How do you deserve fame and veneration just for being? It's not like he *did* anything as an infant anyway. In fact, Harry himself says he doesn't deserve fame and veneration. I can't think where to find the quote, but he says it's crazy for him to be famous for something that happened when he was a baby and he can't even remember. What makes him deserve it now is who he's become since then. > The Lily's-death-saved him theory avoids this problem, but it begs > the question of why the same thing never happened before - people > must surely have sacrificed themselves to save others in a similar > way in the past But usually Voldemort was rather indiscriminant about his killing. He probably killed everyone that was around when he went on the average killing spree, not wanting to leave witnesses lying around. So if he intended to kill them all anyway, then there would be no way for someone to choose to die in someone else's place. But in this case Voldemort seems to have been on a mission specifically to kill James and Harry, so maybe he just wanted to be quick about it and was going to ignore Lily, but instead he had to kill her to get to Harry. Maybe. I think this is my weakest argument in this thread so far, but I don't think it's an impossibility yet. - not to mention why they had to die (James and Harry > that is, not Lily it seems from Voldemort's words...the male > bloodline thing leads me to suspect some kind of hereditary thing). Or just a vague prophecy. Really digging this thread - thanks for the debate, Keith! Kimberly From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 07:02:12 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:02:12 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <003f01c08658$73cf8dc0$37397e82@shelley> Message-ID: <94oj1k+pt8e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10589 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Kimberly wrote: > > < point it out to someone and say - See! I once said something that > made perfect sense! Of course no one will ever believe me... > Will you send it again and put on there that I didn't bribe you to > say that? >> > > LOLOLOL!!!!!! Okay, here we go. > > ::Rina steps up to the podium:: Ahem! Attention please. I am saying the following without taking any bribes from Ms. Kimberly. She didn't even beg or ask me to do it. Originally, at any rate. > > > Kimberly wrote: > > > > < to me > > as a possible explanation that wouldn't include something outside > of > > canon like Lily performing some special charm or Harry being > > super-baby. I don't know if it's true, but it is one theory I've > come > > up with.>> > > > > I think it makes perfect sense. I know that Harry has some big > powers, but Voldemort *was able to curse him in the end of book 4. So > whatever saved him from being killed then is gone now, and I think it > goes beyond Lily's love and protection. Plus, I think it sounds like > something JKR would do, giving a hint for future explanations. > > > > Thank you. ::Rina steps off the podium:: > > Bless you Rina! I'm taking this to work with me tomorrow! My boss will be so pleased that it *can* happen! kimberly From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Jan 25 07:12:53 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:12:53 -0000 Subject: All Aboard the Good Ship R/H In-Reply-To: <200101250606.f0P66pC14422@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94ojll+du30@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10590 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > > Batten down the hatches! An enemy ship approaches! It appears to be a yacht of some sort...and the crew are all wearing leather pants! It can't be...no, it is...the D/H! All hands on deck! --------------- > Enemy ship indeed! That's my boat you're talking about, the SS Leather Trousers. We may not be quite as impassioned as the R/H or the H/H Ships, but we do have the richest and the er, blondest crew. ;) And Lucius has promised us all Firebolts, provided we behave ourselves. Cassie Who is beginning to worry that there will be some disappointment when Book 5 comes out and Draco is wearing plain old wizarding robes like everyone else. From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 07:28:29 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:28:29 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Marvin's Obsessiveness quiz References: <94o8rp+j8fr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10591 Marvin wrote: "Alas, a measly 24% for me. Oh well, if it had been Star Wars I would've scored in the 90s, I'm pretty sure, and I've had nearly 24 years to work on *that* obsession...but only 3 weeks for Harry Potter." yael wrote: "Oh, Thank you! I was afraid to reveal my 27%, last i get kicked from the list... :) And i scored higher than you! yael *goes off with little dance steps*" Marvin wrote: " Just goes to show, no matter how low you sink you can always find somebody else to gloat over. :-P" Somehow, i have a hunch that by the time you're a year into it (like i am) you'll leave me far behind. (although after taking the sorting selector i'm 29% - almost there ) And :-P back at you. yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From yael_pou at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 07:38:36 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael oren) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:38:36 +0200 Subject: OT: Marvin References: <94o8rp+j8fr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10592 Hi Marvin, I don't know if you've read 'The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy' (probably have). There is one character there called Marvin (a paranoid android). He was my favourite character. he Had a poem i really loved. Haven't read it in 12(!) years, and i don't have the text, but it goes something like this: "Now the world has gone to bed Darkness won't engulf my head I can see with infra-red How i hate the night Now i lay me down to sleep Trying to count electric sheep Sweet dreams, wishes you can keep How i hate the night." :) yael [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 07:40:13 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:40:13 -0000 Subject: Ships, leather Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10593 I was trying to avoid getting involved in all this ship nonsense, but was amused by a couple of comments. Cass wrote: "Enemy ship indeed! That's my boat you're talking about, the SS Leather Trousers. We may not be quite as impassioned as the R/H or the H/H Ships, but we do have the richest and the er, blondest crew. ;) And Lucius has promised us all Firebolts, provided we behave ourselves." No. Lucius has disowned Draco for going anywhere near a mudblood and is deciding whether or not to send the entire DE fleet (Death Eater as a fleet of submarines) after you. Kathy wrote: "Awww, now look, we've scared the no-shippers. That's not right. I think the SS H/H and the Good Ship R/H need to sign an armistice right away. Think of all the poor innocents down there in their inner tubes who could get hurt!" Yes be careful. I do not want to get caught in the crossfire. The no ships are a reasonably large group but I am almost out there on my own (checking the ship poll I seem to have someone to join me). We all know that there is only one true bird in Harry's life and he loves her. Cassie wrote: "Who is beginning to worry that there will be some disappointment when Book 5 comes out and Draco is wearing plain old wizarding robes like everyone else." Neil wrote: "Dr Simon Branford in leather trousers" What is it with leather and these groups? The whole discussion on PoU seems to have died down and now it resurfaces over here. What am I to do? Simon -- Dominus Illuminatio Mea ... "The Lord is my light, and my salvation; whom shall I fear?" -Psalm 27 From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 08:01:30 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 08:01:30 -0000 Subject: Accents / Audiobooks Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10594 Note that in all this about audio books I am talking fairly hypothetically. I am commenting more about audio books in general rather than about the Harry Potter books specifically. I have only heard PS, obviously read by Stephen Fry, in audio format. B.K. wrote: "I listened to Fry on Boxing Day over the Internet and I think Jim Dale did a much better job creating distinct individual voices for each and every character including tones, accents, and mannerisms." Ah, but is that what people want from an audio book? I, for one, do not. I want the book to be read to me in a fairly simple, and probably quite plain, manner so that it is the words that speak to me, and that I listen to. Otherwise it gets to the stage of taking too much notice in how the person is doing the different parts and not enough on what is actually being said. Also if we want every character to be different then surely it is an audio play that we require (and they have been produced for other series - I believe Pullman's His Dark Materials is one such series). If we do want an audio play the surely it would be better to be done with many actors doing the different parts, rather than one man, no matter how good he is, doing all the parts. I enjoyed the Stephen Fry reading of PS and spent my Boxing Day lounging around listening to it (and watching the Bond film that was on - Goldfinger I believe). It was good enough to convince me that I may want to buy the audio books, but alas I have no money to do so. Jim wrote: "I read some time ago in a posting that Stephen Fry did Hagrid in a "Dorset accent." Is that similar to a Cornish accent?" Dai wrote: "The first time I read PS (seems like along time ago, even if it only was in July) I immediately pictured of Coltrane as Hagrid with his scottish accent (that's how his speech read in my mind) and so was dead chuffed when they announced Coltrane would be doing the honours in the film. Also, in the Stephen Fry reading (which I thought was excellent, even if I didn't agree on Hagrids voice) I thought Fry gave Hagrid more of a Somerset accent than a Devonian/Cornish one; the stereotypical farmer (with 'is combine 'arvester, ooo arrrr)." A Dorset accent is basically a weaker version of the Somerset accent. Meaning that it should be easier to understand! One of the main features of the Dorset accent seems to be the almost total avoidance of the letter 't'. So you get things like track'er (=tractor) and war'er (=water). I have always imagined Hagrid as being from somewhere in this sort of area - more likely to be Somerset than Dorset as his accent is quite thick.. Simon -- Dominus Illuminatio Mea ... "The Lord is my light, and my salvation; whom shall I fear?" -Psalm 27 From gaynor at cheerful.com Thu Jan 25 10:19:45 2001 From: gaynor at cheerful.com (Gaynor Thomas) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:19:45 -0000 Subject: Japanese fanart (veering OT) In-Reply-To: <3A6F9267.B13444A9@texas.net> Message-ID: <94ouk1+qqih@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10595 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Looking at the adults, I'm wondering if the Japanese tend to perceive age > using the same cues as Westerners--the ages I "get" from the pictures > aren't the ages I think of the characters as being, but maybe they're > right for Japan. Thoughts? It's just a personal observation, but I don't think the Japanese show their age physically as much as we do. For me, it was quite difficult to tell how old a Japanese person was. I had a woman in one of my classes that was 39, but looked to be in her mid-20s. They probably *do* have different cues when deciding age. I agree that the picture of McGonagall looks too young, but perhaps it doesn't mention her age in the books? (at least in the first two) I thought we learnt her age from the chat with JKR. Gaynor :) From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 11:16:57 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:16:57 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94p1v9+h6up@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10596 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Melissa Daily" wrote: > Keith wrote: > > > > >Why isn't Harry, son of two of the best students at Hogwarts, one of > >whom managed to become an Animagus at age 15, a better wizard? > >Academically he seems a fairly ordinary Joe, certainly compared to > >Hermione, even if he is extremely brave and brilliant at Quidditch. > > > > I think he excels at certain things. He was able to conjure up an excellent > patronus even though that is beyond OWLs. And he also good at other Defense > Against the Dark Arts. He is getting better at Charms with each book, he > seems to be competent enouch in herbology. And as for the rest, Prof. Binns > could put anyone to sleep, Harry performs well with magical creatures (i.e. > first time he met a hippogriff), and he does well in herbology. The others > are Divination with professor Trelawney, and she just seems to spend all of > their classes predicting Harry's death. As for Potions, he doesn't stand a > chance at fairness. > > Melissa I'd forgotten about the Patronus (thank you to all the people who reminded me)...actually, Harry's main skill seems to be resisting evil - viz. his ability to hold off the Imperius Curse. Keith From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 11:27:40 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:27:40 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94oisl+10jqe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94p2jc+vljr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10597 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" > wrote:> > > Yes, that is very true. I actually realised that after posting my > > last message (or was it before and I forgot when I was posting? > Never > > mind). However, if Harry is your plain ordinary common-or-garden > > everyday bog-standard wizard, why did Voldemort want to kill him in > > the first place? > > This is where the self-fulfilling prophecy thing comes in. Let's say > there was a prophecy that harry, or a potter man, or whatever, was > going to cause V's downfall, and so he chose to try to kill him, this > bringing about his downfall (because of the unicorn theory) and > fulfilling the prophecy at the same time? It's such a neat little > ball of yarn that way - that's why I like it! > Ah, of course, good point. Voldemort would feel like a bit of a prat if that was the case, wouldn't he? > Really digging this thread - thanks for the debate, Keith! > Kimberly It's made me feel like a bit of an idiot for having a super-Harry in my fanfic when there are so many sound arguments against that theory, but you're welcome. I now subscribe to the Lord-of-the-rings-style- little-people-defeat-overconfident-Dark-Lord school of thought: JKR will quite likely make Harry's victory a triumph of courage and ingenuity (and probably luck) over evil. Actually, I've just had a thought - have we yet to see the full significance of the powers passed from Voldemort to Harry (shared wand, Parseltongue)? And what about the blood connection? Also, Harry's going to be having semi-permanent nightmares from now on because Voldemort's back and on the rampage. He'll probably need to take sleeping potions all the time to combat that. Keith From mousecarcass at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 12:48:04 2001 From: mousecarcass at hotmail.com (M. C. ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:48:04 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew/random thoughts/wizarding currency Message-ID: <94p7a4+59u3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10598 I'm not much of a fan of Pettigrew, but I'm a devil's advocate. I think much of the information we've discovered about Pettigrew is suspect or biased. Though it comes from people who had daily dealings with him -- Remus, Sirius, McGonagall, etc. -- they are looking back and trying to convince themselves there was something suspect in his actions. (Similar to some 'converted' to Ron/Hermione and away from Harry/Cho by GoF -- people do like to be right, and re-evaluate the past in light of the present/future.) 1. His skill as a Wizard FACT: He knows a curse that could destroy 13 muggles (and one presumes the surrounding area) and he becomes an animagus. MEMORY: James and Sirius had to help him a lot with the Animagus charm, concurred by McGonagall having to hassle his in class. Perhaps Peter wasn't the stellar student James and Sirius were, the Animagus charm/spell/? is considered well above the fifth? year level the Marauders accomplished it. It doesn't automatically mean he's a dunce. I personally could imagine McGonagall hassling anyone in class, at least once, and it could be selective memory -- she doesn't remember hassling the other specific students because there's no cause. Or, Peter could pretend to be abysmal in Transfig. because he's deathly afraid of McG. finding out about them. After all, of a stag, a dog and a rat; who's going to be more afraid of a cat? Or, it could be that Transfig. wasn't his best subject, but something else was (Potions - Snape, DADA - Lupin, Charms - Lily, Herbology? - Peter) 2. Friendships FACT: One of the close-knit Marauders, trusted to be the Potters' Secret-Keeper. MEMORY: He liked 'big' friends, people that could protect him. This is an irate Sirius' self-justification for being friends with Peter for so long. The comment is preceded by the below quote. "I'll never understand why I [Sirius] didn't understand you [Peter] were the spy from the start." - PoA, chpt . 19 FACT: He betrayed the Potters because he didn't trust his friends to protect him. (Can anyone argue he 'joined' Voldy because he believed/admired the dogma?) BUT, Black (and the Potters) also suspected Lupin of spying/passing info/some such. So, is it really fair to blame Peter for not having faith in his friends? Only James and Sirius seemed to trust each other completely. I can't disagree with Peter being quite cowardly and I'm probably reading too much grey into a B&W area. The explicit textual parallels between Neville and Peter would suggest JKR sees them as similar to a degree, whereas I prefer a Neville - Lupin parallel as they both have a big secret revealed mid-school path. I think the War, Big V, etc. played to PP's flaws, he became worse, grew petty (or is that stretching too far?) Other random thoughts: 1. Gryffindor and Slytherin's initials are equal distance from the ends of the alphabet. (As are Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw.) Gryffindor (G) - 7 Slytherin (S) - 7 (26 - 19) 2. Are sickles real silver? While wizarding currency would not have been created with dark creatures (eg werewolves) in mind, but enough silver is probably not available for viable currency use. Does Professor Lupin handle any sickles in PoA? shorah, MC From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Jan 25 07:52:00 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:52:00 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lily Evans References: Message-ID: <036a01c086ce$11715980$c9287bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 10599 > An Aside: I still wonder where Harry and Hagrid were all day, since the > Potters were killed on Halloween evening, Hagrid says he got Harry out of > the ruined house before the Muggles came around, but it wasn't until late > evening of the following day that Harry arrived on Privet Drive. Perhaps he had to be taken somewhere along the way to have protective charms placed on him ? Michelle From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Jan 25 12:37:45 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:37:45 -0000 Subject: Leaving school in the UK - OT References: Message-ID: <036b01c086ce$11df3680$c9287bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 10600 > As I read the ending it made me think of something though. We never really > said goodbye to Wood, and it was his last year. That made me wonder, doesn't > Hogwarts have some sort of a graduation for their 7th year students? Some > wizards go to higher schooling, right? So, don't they have to graduate? Or > is there something during the dinner? British schools don't tend to have much in the way of a formal leaving service. Older, established public and pseudo public schools ( I think you call them private in the US ) have a religious ceremony or a ball or a leavers and teachers get together of some sort. When I left one school after my GCSEs at 16, we did a leaver's assembly where we mimed to We Go Together from Grease. This took place in Mid May before we went off on study leave for external exams. Then in the June or early July we did a tea party in our classroom for all the teachers. At this point I remember disgracing myself my bursting into tears when we were presented with a keepsake by our headmistress. I had been at the same school since I was seven. When I moved schools for my A levels, we had a really stilted tea in the Girls School ( There was a boys Junior and Senior School as well as a Girls School all on one site ). Oh, and there was a " ball " which was more like a pathetic dinner and dance somewhere nice in London. Please excuse the ot-ness of this post !! Michelle From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 13:04:23 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:04:23 -0000 Subject: Cats, Why is your favorite your favorite In-Reply-To: <94hufg+rfi2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94p88n+iv3h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10601 >kimberly, >wondering why Figg only had muggle pictures of her cats. 'Cause she's incognito. She can't let the Dursleys and the rest of the neighborhood know she's a witch. kimberly also wrote of PA: >I think it's the most character-driven of the 4 Yep, that is the perfect summation of why 3 is my favorite. And you're right, it is also very funny (funny AND serious--good combo). I think #1 is pretty hilarious though. It doesn't have any maps that advise Snape to wash his hair, but all the quirks of Hogwarts and the wizarding world are particularly funny the first time you encounter them (e.g. Nearly-Headless Nick). Amy Z looking forward to meeting Mrs. Figg and her cats in 5 --------------------------------------------- "Cool, sir!" said Dean Thomas in amazement. -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban --------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 13:07:44 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:07:44 -0000 Subject: Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns In-Reply-To: <94ie2k+vul6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94p8f0+g5f5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10602 Carole: >- Crouch Jr. only got a trial so his Dad could show how fair he was. He also wanted to rant and rave and show how much he hated his son and disown him publicly. Heavy PR value for someone who has to turn his reputation around fast. Sirius alludes to this reason too. Carole: >5. Snuffles! How cute is that? With this suggestion Sirius, who up to now has been mostly, well, serious, reveals that he has a sense of humor (Azkaban didn't kill it). I dig it. Marvin: >I think Ron is clearly insecure and feels he has to compete just to >matter: Harry is famous, Hermione is brilliant, but Ron is >just...Ron. Hermione is an easier target than Harry for churlish >behavior, I suspect. Yup. It's hard to pick on someone in the presence of his godfather. Hermione tends to be the target of Ron's sarcasm anyway. Plus he has a crush on her, a timehonored reason to treat someone like crap. Plus he is made nervous by Sirius's presence. H&H have had intimate dealings with Sirius already; this is the first time Ron has met him since the Shrieking Shack. In short, Ron's being a bit of a jerk but I completely understand why. He'll grow up. Or else, perish the thought, he'll get more and more anxious to prove himself and join the Death Eaters (she says, holding up a cross and a piece of garlic--NO! NO! NEVER!). Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "But won't they notice if you shut your ears in the oven door?" "Dobby doubts it, sir." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ----------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 13:10:41 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:10:41 -0000 Subject: Magical notions of prejudice (was Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94p8kh+g5jp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10603 I think we see the wizarding world's equivalent of racism not only in the prejudice against Muggle-borns but in people's attitude toward werewolves & giants, which Hermione rightly labels "just bigotry." She sees it with a clarity that Ron lacks because of her outsider's perspective on the wizarding world, and of course her budding social conscience. And at that point we all know and love a werewolf and a half-giant, so JKR's message is very clear: the wizard assumption that those creatures are hateful is unfair. Ron's "get away from me, werewolf!" in the Shrieking Shack is a very painful moment IMO. He's in agony and he thinks Lupin has betrayed and is about to kill them all, so it's very understandable, but it shows a bigotry that is disturbing just the same. (To his credit, he doesn't hold Hagrid's background against him at all.) Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --Hermione, HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 13:13:21 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:13:21 -0000 Subject: Lily Evans In-Reply-To: <94of02+qg1r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94p8ph+r20r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10604 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Steve Vander Ark" wrote: > And where did he happen to run into McGonagall and tell her that > Dumbledore would be heading for Privet Drive? She was there already > fairly early in the morning, so he must have met up with her, oh, > four or five in the morning? Okay, so he leaves Godric's Hollow at, > say, eleven pm Halloween night, he flies to...somewhere, we don't > know where, then a few hours later meets McGonagall and tells her > about the planned rendezvous at Privet Drive but not the time, or she > wouldn't have waited there all day, which means he must have > encountered DUMBLEDORE somewhere before he met McGonagall to KNOW > that Privet Drive was the place...and then what? A day of what? And > where? or perhaps they just owled each other... Dai From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 13:14:50 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:14:50 -0000 Subject: Obsession Quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94p8sa+gd0c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10605 Elizabeth wrote: > Sorry, no lightening bolt tattoo on the forehead!, but I also have > artificially Weasley colored hair and I've intentionally made it Weasley-er > lately. I'm hoping Molly and Arthur will think I'm one of theirs and take me > home. OK, you definitely get extra obsessiveness points. I do confess to some disappointment that you didn't get a Snape nose job or have "Neville is God" tattooed on your butt. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We don't send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts." -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 25 13:19:56 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:19:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Harry Problem? References: <200101250631.f0P6VoC17014@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A7027FC.FA1ED02A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10606 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Cass wrote: > > *raises eyebrow* Why? I've seen it termed "The Harry Problem" when > >talking about R/H fic. Either way one member of the trio is going to > >feel left out. Obviously Ron would have bigger issues than Harry, but > >the issues remain nonetheless. > > Really? I have never seen once seen that term. Can anyone say more about > this? I'm curious as to what people think the issues are with Harry, other > than that he would feel left out if Ron and Hermione were to sneak around > behind his back. I agree that the issues are there either way, and that's > actually why I think the whole shipper debate is interesting enough to suck up > hours of my time. That's it exactly -- it causes issues regardless which 2 of the 3 end up romantically involved (even R/Ha right??). It may not have been articulated per se as the "Harry Problem" (whereas H/H writers have specifically labelled Ron as the "Ron Problem"), but I'm sure R/H writers have encountered it & given it some thought. The few R/H fics that I've read seem to deal with it by shunting Harry to the side, which is *exactly* what the R/H types bemoan about H/H fics. It's a problem either way though, isn't it? I think that's Cassie's main point. While I don't think Ron figured much in Cassie's DD, I think she's doing a really phenomenal job of addressing these issues more & more as DS has progressed. In DD, she did say that R & H dated for a short while in 5th year but it was awkward. DS, on the other hand, really shows Ron & Hermione interacting despite her dating relationship with Harry. It shows the depth of their continued friendship (as well as the abiding friendship between Harry and Ron). I think the whole issue of how it really would affect the Trio deserves even more exploration in fanfic, and the good news is that we should all have plenty of time to create more & more fanfics since Book 5 is not coming out this calendar year! > Cass again: > > I just have to say for my own self, and I think I speak for most > >H/H'ers here, if Ron and Hermione do wind up 'together', it won't > >diminish my enjoyment of the books at all. I'll just file it away > >with the house elves under "distasteful subplots that I really could > >do without, but will just ignore instead." And I'll still love the > >books. I'll second that. :--) > And that's exactly how I would feel if it came out H/H. I would be > disappointed if it went that way, because the whole hero-gets-the-girl thing > kinda makes my skin crawl, and because, as we all know, I *love* Ron, but as > Ebony said, if JKR makes it plausible, I'll go along with it. But it won't > stop my from writing my own version of events either! Ahem ... attention Susan: the H/H crowd is *not* alone in saying that they will just turn to fanfic to create their own ideal scenarios if JKR doesn't write it the way they'd like it to turn out!!!! Straight from the mouth of the Captain of the Good Ship R/H: JKR's ending might be ignored by the R/H crowd too if they don't like it. Penny From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 13:23:19 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:23:19 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Accents / Audiobooks / Audioplays / legal aspect In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10607 > B.K. wrote: "I listened to Fry on Boxing Day over the Internet and I think > Jim Dale did a much better job creating distinct individual voices for each > and every character including tones, accents, and mannerisms." I heartily agree with you. I find that Jim Dale's accent (and silly character accents) detracts from the books. I can barely understand his shrill "Scottish" McGonagall, his Hagrid sounds moronic, and his Hermione is whinier than a 'shipper who's just discovered that JKR has ruled out their ship preferences ;) (NB: That was a joke. It was meant to be funny. A ha-ha. Lighthearted moment o'Amusement. Please don't take it any other way.) Simon wrote: > If we do want an audio play the surely it would be better to be done with many > actors doing the different parts, rather than one man, no matter how good he > is, doing all the parts. Ooh, yes, an audioplay! That would be fantastic. I have a superb BBC-produced "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" which I really enjoy listening to. For those unfamiliar with the concept, it's different from an audiobook in that it's fully casted -- well, Guy with Rock #3 and #4 may be read by the same person in different accents, but you understand what I'm getting at -- but different from the full soundtrack (not just the music) of a movie in that there is narration. Maybe we could all donate our voices to an audioplay at some point! Or, alternatively, a round-robin reading, chapter-by-chapter. Heidi, would that be legal if it was solely for our own personal use and not for distribution across the internet? --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 13:25:51 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:25:51 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: All Aboard the Good Ship R/H In-Reply-To: <94ojll+du30@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10608 Kathleen wrote: > Batten down the hatches! An enemy ship approaches! It appears to > be a yacht of some sort...and the crew are all wearing leather > pants! It can't be...no, it is...the D/H! All hands on deck! ::smutty cackle:: Now...which H would that be? Muahahahahaaaa... --John, who thinks that the Celine Dion drag might be more appropriate on the D/H LoveBoat... == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 25 13:29:11 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:29:11 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source References: Message-ID: <3A702A26.50EADE95@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10609 Hi -- John Walton wrote: > I have to disagree here, Penny. Canonically speaking, I can't see that > Hagrid's statement makes much difference, one way or the other. Essentially, > as much as we love him, poor old Hagrid has been kept out of the loop on > things -- we see this most particularly in PoA and GoF. My guess would be that > Hagrid (and most of the wizarding community) didn't know about the old > magic that Dumbledore knows about, and so assumed that it's something about > Harry. I wasn't necessarily touting Hagrid as a reliable source per se -- he's not always reliable as we've seen. But, my point is that the general perception amongst the wizarding community is that Harry is special. Voldemort couldn't kill him because of his mother's sacrifice. But, there's a reason that the curse rebounded on Voldemort, and I still think it has something to do with Harry specifically. And, he's showing more & more uniqueness and innate powers as the series progresses (resisting the Imperius Curse for example). And, I still just don't buy the notion that Harry was the first innocent defenseless victim that Voldemort killed. What about all those muggles that he supposedly killed? They are surely just as or more defenseless in the face of a magical attack. Harry also can't have been the only infant targeted by Voldemort. If you say that, you definitely discount the slaughter of many amongst that generation of babies (King Herod arguments tossed around last week or so). So, you'd be back to the Student Numbers problem. As for the old magic that Dumbledore knows about -- that's just protecting Harry while he's at or under the care of the Dursleys though. It had nothing whatever to do with what saved him or what caused the curse to rebound on Voldemort. Right? At least as far as we know, it doesn't .... Penny (who thinks she must be missing something fundamental about this debate ....) From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Thu Jan 25 13:38:20 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:38:20 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Lily Evans Message-ID: <01c086d4$14f28240$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10610 >> An Aside: I still wonder where Harry and Hagrid were all day, since >the >> Potters were killed >Perhaps he had to be taken somewhere along the way to have protective >charms placed on him ? I think they also needed some time to heal his wounded head (surely Hagrid couldn't do it himself). I guess that when Hagrid took Harry to a mediwitch she insisted on feeding and bathing the boy. After that Harry needed some sleep, and of course another bath and some food later. Even if Hagrid did want to bring Harry to the Dursleys the same night the Potters were killed, he might not be able to do so (whould *you* let a half-giant to wake up such a poor little boy or take him away without a proper meal?). And I imagine that placing infants on tresholds is not a kind of thing you do in broad daylight, even in magical world... There's one thing I can't understand, though - why Dumbledore didn't talk to the Dursleys? Why did he only leave the letter? Monika From pennylin at swbell.net Thu Jan 25 13:41:22 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 07:41:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Defensiveness References: <200101250652.f0P6qJC19030@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A702D02.7B9AC019@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10611 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Well, Penny, I always get the impression that it's shocking and bordering on > sacrilege to suggest that Hermione could possibly end up with anyone less than > Harry (and since my feelings about Ron are probably pretty clear at this point, > you know why I have more than one problem with that idea). Speaking for myself here: Actually, my argument has never been that Harry is a better person than Ron and therefore more deserving of Hermione. I truly believe that Hermione has romantic interest in Harry. Now, whether or not she'll decide that Harry is just a crush & that Ron is really the one for her is debatable. I also believe that Harry and Hermione are more well-suited to be romantically involved, but that goes more to my perception about relationships in general (I can't imagine a marriage where the spouses fight & bicker all the time). That doesn't mean I think Ron doesn't "deserve" Hermione. I just think they are incompatible over the long-haul and that Harry & Hermione's strengths and weaknesses complement each other nicely. Like Cassie, I do admit that Ron is my least favorite of the 3 main characters. I don't relate well to him, and like Ebony, I started out liking him quite a bit but grew to have more & more doubts about him as the series progressed. Perhaps Book 5 will put those doubts to rest though. In any case though, *my* thought has never been that Ron is a "lesser" person who doesn't "deserve" Hermione. I don't necessarily think that's been the position of any other H/H'er, but it's definitely not mine. My basic position has to do more with (a) better-suited, and (b) Hermione's feelings (which I interpret as being for Harry, even though I readily concede that it's debatable at this point). > But I think kimberly makes a very good point: both sides seem defensive to the > other. Perhaps that's all it is then. :--) > No, I think you've got it, at least as far as I can tell. (Like I said before, > I obviously don't feel the reluctance to post that most R/Hers seem too, since > H/H-baiting is one of my favorite hobbies!). But the impression I get is that > some people feel that this list is overwhelmingly H/H and that > their comments will just be ignored. Well, the poll should put those thoughts to rest, eh? And, don't forget my tally of the H/H posts versus R/H posts from last month. It was dead even, guys. The list is not pro-either ship. The raw evidence doesn't support that at all. > Awww, now look, we've scared the no-shippers. That's not right. I think the SS > H/H and the Good Ship R/H need to sign an armistice right away. Think of all > the poor innocents down there in their inner tubes who could get hurt! As I said last night, I originally said "Party Boats"!! Somewhere along the line, it got changed to battleships facing off in the open sea -- a far cry from my original nautical vision of 2 large party boats, where we could all wave at each other from our respective decks. > And don't worry, everybody. Even if the H/H and R/H do fire on each other > sometimes, rest assured it's just friendly fire. :) I agree completely -- it is nothing more than friendly fire. :--) Penny From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 14:07:26 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:07:26 -0000 Subject: The first step Message-ID: <94pbuu+e8sj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10612 I finally confessed my HP addiction to my dear spouse last night. The realization that I wanted to tape the Super Bowl and scour through its many hours to find a 30-second trailer for the film made me realize that I'd hit bottom, to use 12-step parlance. I hate American football. He was completely understanding. He even said he'd go to the movie with me. He doesn't think I'm crazy for being on HPforGU. (He would prefer me not to tape the game because the Celtics are on at the same time, but he assured me our computer can handle RealVideo so I don't need to.) What a relief to stop living a secret life . . . ;-) Amy Z --------------------------------------------- "Cool, sir!" said Dean Thomas in amazement. -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban --------------------------------------------- From margoh at iron.com.br Thu Jan 25 14:14:33 2001 From: margoh at iron.com.br (Margoh S. Nox) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:14:33 -0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re:which Character and House are you quizzes Message-ID: <000a01c086d9$2560cce0$9cb5d2c8@kfm> No: HPFGUIDX 10613 Greetings everyone! 1st. post here... I just took the so commented quizzes, and here's mine results, to whoever might be interested... :o) # 1 Harry Potter # 2 Rubeus Hagrid # 3 Fred/George Weasley # 4 Albus Dumbledore # 5 Neville Longbottom # 6 Ron Weasley # 7 Charlie Weasley # 8 Minerva McGonagall # 9 Bill Weasley # 10 Hermione Granger # 11 Draco Malfoy # 12 Remus Lupin # 13 Voldemort # 14 Sirius Black # 15 Percy Weasley * oh, I lurve Percy... why 15? :o| * # 16 Severus Snape It's great though strange to have Harry as first... never really had a great identification with him. As for my house selection, I have tried several "Sorting Hats" around (not many of those press-and-go ones, hate the fate method) and they always would put me in Ravenclaw, although I'm not really gifted or anything.... just average with some bright ideas... :o) This time, they put me in Hufflepuff #1 with Ravenclaw #2... I guess that's OK, since I put a great deal in hardworking and loyalty as qualities... I'm in International Relations univ. down here in Brazil, as I read that some of you also were in that career... mail me if you'd like to exchange thoughts on that too! Well, I'm really pleased to find this groups, hope to have a good time. See you all, Margoh S. Nox. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 14:05:53 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:05:53 -0000 Subject: PoA (was Grammar - PoA - etc.) In-Reply-To: <3A6D2B0E.E6F7A586@wicca.net> Message-ID: <94pbs1+onkb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10614 I wrote: > In Lupin's case, I read and reread > the scene on the train and think about what it must have been like to > open his eyes and see the likeness of his 12-years-dead friend. Catlady wrote: >In case it's any comfort to you, I don't think it was any surprise to >Remus to see Harry on the train (or to see how much Harry resembles >James) -- I think Dumbledore, knowing that the Dementors would board the >train, specially asked Remus to ride on the train to protect the >children especially Harry I think this is likely too--Lupin may be there to protect Harry from SB and/or the Dementors. But surprise or not, it still must be hard for RL to see Harry. I doubt children pick up on this much, but I haven't asked any about HP so I don't know. Amy Z ...who looks in the Mirror of Erised and sees herself reading HP to her as-yet-nonexistent daughter ...and wearing thick woolen socks ----------------------------------------------------------------- "And some old witch in Bath had a book that you could *never stop reading*! You just had to wander around with your nose in it, trying to do everything one-handed." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ----------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 14:09:39 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:09:39 -0000 Subject: Murder in books (was GoF Banned in Australian School) In-Reply-To: <94kd5q+8fka@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94pc33+fjf1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10615 **WARNING: Soapbox alert!** Heidi wrote: >part of the article reads SOmeone from the schoo, "Christian Outreach >College, a private school in Queensland state, said he read one >chapter from the latest story about a young magician, "Harry Potter >and the Goblet of Fire," and was exposed to four murders." >I guess that was chapter 1... Of all the reasons I've heard for banning the books, this one drives me the most nuts. Maybe it's just that murder has scarred my family, but this attitude enrages me. What world are these people living in? Did we or did we not just escape a century in which people murdered hundreds of millions of other people outright? Children, and adults, need fiction that helps them understand what murder is and the impact it has. JKR deals with violence in just the way I think is best: she takes every injury, every death seriously; she shows its true and devastating effects, down the generations; she doesn't let it be a cartoon even when the characters are people we don't know (e.g. Bertha, Frank). Those who want to deal with violence by ignoring it remind me of the people the Bible warns us about: "They cry Peace, peace, when there is no peace." This world is full of cruelty. Thank you JKR and the many other artists who help us to face this fact and try bravely to change it. Fortunately, most Christians do not embrace the head-in-the-sand approach to violence. Amy Z putting away my soapbox now and going back to the 10 digests I still have to catch up on From rlpenar at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 14:13:40 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:13:40 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source In-Reply-To: <3A702A26.50EADE95@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94pcak+adae@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10616 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > John Walton wrote: > > > I have to disagree here, Penny. Canonically speaking, I can't see that > > Hagrid's statement makes much difference, one way or the other. Essentially, > > as much as we love him, poor old Hagrid has been kept out of the loop on > > things -- we see this most particularly in PoA and GoF. My guess would be that > > Hagrid (and most of the wizarding community) didn't know about the old > > magic that Dumbledore knows about, and so assumed that it's something about > > Harry. > > I wasn't necessarily touting Hagrid as a reliable source per se -- he's not > always reliable as we've seen. But, my point is that the general perception > amongst the wizarding community is that Harry is special. Voldemort couldn't > kill him because of his mother's sacrifice. But, there's a reason that the > curse rebounded on Voldemort, and I still think it has something to do with > Harry specifically. And, he's showing more & more uniqueness and innate powers > as the series progresses (resisting the Imperius Curse for example). > > And, I still just don't buy the notion that Harry was the first innocent > defenseless victim that Voldemort killed. What about all those muggles that he > supposedly killed? They are surely just as or more defenseless in the face of a > magical attack. Harry also can't have been the only infant targeted by > Voldemort. If you say that, you definitely discount the slaughter of many > amongst that generation of babies (King Herod arguments tossed around last week > or so). So, you'd be back to the Student Numbers problem. > > As for the old magic that Dumbledore knows about -- that's just protecting Harry > while he's at or under the care of the Dursleys though. It had nothing whatever > to do with what saved him or what caused the curse to rebound on Voldemort. > Right? At least as far as we know, it doesn't .... > > Penny (who thinks she must be missing something fundamental about this debate > ....) I agree Penny, if this were just about Lily saving Harry, don't you think that someone like Lucius or Draco Malfoy, or someone else who doesn't like Harry, would have brought it up by now that it's really not Harry that is special, but all of this attention is because of his mother?? Did that make sense? What I mean is, this HAS to relate back to "there's something about Harry" because (1) chances are that Harry was not the first defenseless baby to be killed by Voldemort whose parent tried to protect them (although I guess we don't really know exactly how many people V killed - maybe he was just more into intimidation than actual killing?), and (2) if it was just that Harry's mother protected him, how is it that Harry could do the things that he can do (patronus, etc.)? We have definately not seen all of the powers that V transferred to Harry that night, is it possible that what makes Harry different is that he has all of these skills/powers that V used (i.e. dark magic powers) and Harry instead uses them positively? For example, V can talk to snakes, and uses that power to intimidate people/kill people with basilus (sp); Harry, however, uses his ability to talk to snakes to call them away from attacking people (CoS when he called the snake away from Justin). I know this might seem a little too simple, but it also makes sense. Also, I've been thinking a lot about the "Lily didn't have to die" statement, and I'm really beginning to subscribe to the theory that V was trying to get Lily to his side and she refused. Perhaps V knew that James would never go to him and assumed Harry wouldn't either, V wanted to test Lily, so he decides to kill James & Harry, hence, Lily didn't 'have' to die since she could have just gone with V and not tried to protect Harry. Becky From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Thu Jan 25 14:25:01 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:25:01 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew/random thoughts/wizarding currency Message-ID: <01c086da$9a190f60$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10617 >1. His skill as a Wizard > >FACT: He knows a curse that could destroy 13 muggles (and one >presumes the surrounding area) and he becomes an animagus. > >MEMORY: James and Sirius had to help him a lot with the Animagus >charm, concurred by McGonagall having to hassle his in class. In 13-Muggles-at-one-go incident Pettigrew was also faster than Black, contrary to McGonagall's claim that he was always hopeless at dueling. If *that* was hopelessness, guess how poor Black is at it... But perhaps Pettigrew learnt his tricks from Voldemort. >2. Friendships >So, is it really fair to blame Peter for not having faith in his >friends? Only James and Sirius seemed to trust each other completely. Couldn't agree more. For me, the Marauders' friendship wasn't as great as Lupin and Black seem to remember it. I don't quite believe in Sirius's declaration "we would have died for you!" I am quite willing to believe that James and Sirius were real friends, and that perhaps James liked Remus and Peter very much. Anyway, I'm not so sure about Black. I honestly believe that Lupin would not be allowed to stay in Hogwarts if he attacked another student, no matter whose fault it'd be or how loudly Dumbledore protested. Did Black think of that when he was sending Snape to Shrieking Shack? >2. Are sickles real silver? > >While wizarding currency would not have been created with dark >creatures (eg werewolves) in mind, but enough silver is probably not >available for viable currency use. Does Professor Lupin handle any >sickles in PoA? Professor Lupin doesn't seem to handle any money in PoA, which I find very intriguing. He doesn't buy himself anything new, for I thin it would be noticed. Yet Dumbledore does pay him. What is he doing with the money? Paying old debts? Anyway, i think that if he had money, he would have been using either knuts or galleons. Monika From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 25 14:30:07 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 25 Jan 2001 06:30:07 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Audioplays Message-ID: <20010125143007.11024.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10618 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 25 14:38:21 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 25 Jan 2001 06:38:21 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] supportive spouses & merchandise Message-ID: <20010125143821.11163.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10619 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From dedorman at earthlink.net Thu Jan 25 15:02:57 2001 From: dedorman at earthlink.net (Erin Dorman) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:02:57 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] supportive spouses & merchandise In-Reply-To: <20010125143821.11163.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010125085925.009ec0d0@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10620 My DH is on this list somewhere...Comeout Comeout wherever you are! He introduced me to HP last fall so it's kind of nice that we share this adoration of Rowling's books. We're already planning on reading the books to our best friends' daughter. She just turned 3 months old. lol Next purchase for us? The trivia game so we can finally determine the king or queen of HP in our household. lol Erin At 06:38 AM 1/25/01 -0800, you wrote: >My husband, Bart, has known from the beginning of my addiction. Luckily >for me, he is also very supportive. Heck, he's my enabler, as he is the >one who's been buying most of the merchandise for me! However, he does >truly believe that we're all completely insane... > >Once I get home tonight, I need to catalogue all of my merchandise and >I'll post my list. Very very frightening. > >Jeralyn, the Voicelady From aichambaye at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 14:56:12 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:56:12 -0000 Subject: The first step In-Reply-To: <94pbuu+e8sj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94peqc+10eg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10621 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > I finally confessed my HP addiction to my dear spouse last night. The > realization that I wanted to tape the Super Bowl and scour through its > many hours to find a 30-second trailer for the film made me realize > that I'd hit bottom, to use 12-step parlance. I hate American > football. > Ahh!! Amy Z, that's great. And so nice that he was understanding. Since I collect children's series books anyway, my hubs has been in on my HP addiction from the very start (last January). He loves the HP wall calendar and he thinks the tapestry throw is really beautiful (it's on the bed, because it matches - the journey to hogwarts one). He might think it's weird when I start making wands next week. Hee hee! I want him to read HP but he doesn't have much spare time, so I need to order the books in French so that he can read them quickly (that's his first reading language). Heather M. From StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 15:09:40 2001 From: StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com (Stephanie Malfoy) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:09:40 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT- Star Wars for Marvin Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10622 >My goodness, Ms. Weasley, how do you find the *time* to be that >obsessed about two things at once? (And where is that Star Wars >quiz?) It is Mrs. Malfdoy now...I dont know, but it is hard to do I do not remember the location of the SW quiz, I am looking for it for you. >Out of curiosity, were you alive/conscious/old-enough-to-go in 1977 >when the first movie came out? (A score like 140% suggests to me >that duration of obsession might be my only edge.... :-) ) > >marvin Actually, no, alas I am but 17...BUT, I have still seen the movies like 300 times each...I lost count somewhere in the 280s. Anyways...I went to the Sci-Fi convention they had in Austin not to far back. I got to meet Mara and Boba Fett...Anyways................maybe they will add HP to the convention, it is Fantasy...then again maybe not. Well, gots to go. I am at school and the PC Lab monitor is pulling a snape on me!! Stephanie Who wishes she could be at home reading HP! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 15:17:47 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:17:47 -0000 Subject: More fun with trivia Message-ID: <94pg2r+vqck@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10623 I thought of making this into a quiz on one of the websites that lets you do that but it would've had to be multiple choice and that's too easy. Alex, I'll take "Harry Potter" for a thousand: 1. Who's Keeper for Ireland at the Quidditch World Cup? 2. What chess piece does Ron take the place of in Prof. McGonagall's giant chess game? What about Hermione? Harry? 3. How much does it cost to join S.P.E.W.? 4. What's the height of a quidditch goal post? 5. What word do you say if you want to conjure the Dark Mark (not that you would)? 6. Name 2 things Fred and George's fake wands turn into. Extra points if you can name more. 7. What two hexes was Crabbe hit with that made little tentacles sprout on his face? For extra credit: who used them? 8. What year did Dumbledore defeat Grindelwald? 9. What honor was Pettigrew awarded "posthumously" when he was thought to have been killed by SB? 10. What does it signify if you have an acorn shape in your tealeaves? 11. What color are Cornish pixies? Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We don't send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts!" -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 15:31:05 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:31:05 -0000 Subject: Accents / Audiobooks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94pgrp+5g43@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10624 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > If we do want an > audio play the surely it would be better to be done with many actors doing > the different parts, rather than one man, no matter how good he is, doing > all the parts. One might think so, but IMHO Jim Dale does a superlative job taking on all those voices. As soon as someone starts talking I know who it is just from the voice. My one problem with audio plays is that they take out many of the "he saids" and "she saids" because it becomes rather stilted if the narrator says them all. As you may have noticed, I'm just a bit of a purist, and I like to hear every word just the way the author wrote it. In His Dark Materials there was one point where they took out not just a "said" but a "muttered" and it really irked me. The actor playing the part (Will) did a terrific job throughout and he did mutter the line, so you could say it was okay, but words are powerful in their written form and I want to know what they are. So my other peeve about the Jim Dale version is they use the U.S. books. What is interesting is that despite hearing the books from a British actor before reading them, I still hear the voices in my head the way I always do--as American voices, i.e. my own, as they would sound if I were reading them aloud. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "But won't they notice if you shut your ears in the oven door?" "Dobby doubts it, sir." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ----------------------------------------------------------------- From rlpenar at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 15:33:49 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:33:49 -0000 Subject: supportive spouses & merchandise In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010125085925.009ec0d0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <94ph0t+3277@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10625 My spouse also knows of the obesession and she has only read halfway through book 2. I keep gently prodding, but as I get into this group more, it's becoming more frantic. Our nightly dinner conversations go something like this: "So online everyone is talking about ____________ (fill in the black with your favorite thread)" "Oh really" "Yes, and I really want to talk to you about it, because you're pretty good at figuring things like this out, but I can't tell you anything (I refuse to spoil it for her!) so you just need to read the books" "Are you pressuring me?" "No of course not" Ugh, I think I will need to buy them on tape for her, as she declares herself to be not much of a reader (unless someone in Orlando wants to loan them to me :) Becky From xine48 at ync.net Thu Jan 25 15:38:35 2001 From: xine48 at ync.net (Christine Olson) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 09:38:35 -0600 Subject: Hermione's Family In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010125085925.009ec0d0@earthlink.net> References: <20010125143821.11163.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010125092023.01901280@pop31.ync.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10626 Hi all, I am new to this list. I am single, 52 and female and only 41% obsessed, which according to my adult friends is plenty. However they gave me many HP things for Christmas. I do have the Hogwarts poster on the wall in my office. and the calendar on my desk. Anyway, although this has probably been covered on this list before, I am so curious about Hermione's family. I would for JKR to flashback to the time when Hermione received her acceptance letter to Hogwarts. Did she know she was a witch? Did her parents? If not, what was the reaction to her going to Hogwarts? How does she communicate with them. Do Owls deliver to muggles. Do they know what kind of danger she has been put in. Did they tell them when she was in the infirmary with fur and a tail? And what did they say when she came home with her teeth fixed not by orthodontia? These are the questions that perplex me. I am enjoying the list. Thanks Christine From msl at fc.net Thu Jan 25 16:03:29 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:03:29 -0000 Subject: OT: Marvin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94pioh+dkv2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10627 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "yael oren" wrote: > Hi Marvin, > > I don't know if you've read 'The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy' (probably have). There is one character there called Marvin (a paranoid android). He was my favourite character. he Had a poem i really loved. [snip] It's been a long time but yes, I remember Marvin. Lovely chap. I just thought of a cheesy joke. Would you like to hear it? (Will I give you a choice?) You're familiar with the show "Red Dwarf," right? Here goes. .... C3-P0, Kryten and Marvin the Paranoid Android walk into a bar. Immediately the bartender shouts,"Hey! We don't serve your kind in here!" "Oh dear, perhaps we should leave," stammers 3P0. "We don't want any trouble." "And just what *kind* would that be, sir?" Kryten asks, offended. "Droids!" shouts the bartender. "Oh," Marvin drawls. "We're not droids; we're manic-depressives." "Well, all right then." .... Did I mention "cheesy?" - Marvin the Sardonic Fleshbag From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 16:29:00 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:29:00 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Audioplays In-Reply-To: <20010125143007.11024.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10628 Jeralyn wrote: > On Thu, 25 January 2001, John Walton wrote: > >> Maybe we could all donate our voices to an audioplay at some point! Or, >> alternatively, a round-robin reading, chapter-by-chapter. Heidi, would that >> be legal if it was solely for our own personal use and not for distribution >> across the internet? > > Oooh,ooh,ooh! Count me in for that! I mean, come on, it's what I do! And > I'll even defer being paid for it! I'd like to voice McGonagall, Aunt > Petunia, and the house-elves. Pretty please with a cherry on top?!? > > Jeralyn, the Voicelady Hmm. Unless we actually got together to record it during the tour or something, it'd be hard to do individual voices. Rather, I recommend doing it chapter by chapter. This is, of course, assuming that it's not illegal to do so :) Comments? --John ===================================================== John "there really is a monster!" Walton john at walton.to ICQ: 96203920 George Bush: Electile Dysfunction complicated by Premature Congratulations. Don't blame me -- I voted for Gore. ===================================================== From mschub at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 17:02:11 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (Mike Schubert) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:02:11 -0000 Subject: Today's HP Page-A-Day Calander page: Message-ID: <94pm6j+kmmr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10629 "Rearrange the following letters to reveal 'where Hagrid gets a pint or two (or a dragon)' SHGO HDEA" Now, the answer it gives is "Hog's Head". But didn't he get it at the Three Broomsticks, in Hogsmeade? I just checked SS and all I could find was something along the lines of "I was in the town at the pub." What the heck? Is it a mistake on the Page-A-Day people's part, or mine? -Mike From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 17:33:08 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:33:08 -0000 Subject: Audioplays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94po0k+6u6d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10630 "Oooh,ooh,ooh! Count me in for that! I mean, come on, it's what I do! And I'll even defer being paid for it! I'd like to voice McGonagall, Aunt Petunia, and the house-elves. Pretty please with a cherry on top?!? " Jeralyn, the Voicelady "Hmm. Unless we actually got together to record it during the tour or something, it'd be hard to do individual voices. Rather, I recommend doing it chapter by chapter. This is, of course, assuming that it's not illegal to do so :) Comments?" John I can't imagine that it is legal for us to record the canon. The issue would be larger than whether we sold it. How could we say that nobody would forgo buying an authorized version because they had this one? How could we guarantee that our version wouldn't "fall into the wrong hands" and end up on Napster? Now maybe if we did a fanfic this way, we could have some fun and perhaps even stay out of trouble. May I humbly suggest my own, "The Granger Interview", as a short and easy introduction to the idea? We would need a good Hermione and a group of interviewers. We could move on to Ebony's TIP, and then even go to PoU (the auditions for some of the scenes would be, well, interesting) Attention Voicelady!! Do you know a dialogue coach that works cheap? From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Thu Jan 25 17:33:33 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:33:33 -0000 Subject: Audioplays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94po1d+ic9b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10631 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > > Hmm. Unless we actually got together to record it during the tour or > something, it'd be hard to do individual voices. Rather, I recommend doing > it chapter by chapter. This is, of course, assuming that it's not illegal to > do so :) > Yeah, sorry, copyright infringement, blah, blah, blah. An audio recording of a book when said recording is affixed onto recordable media, like a hard drive, tape player, videotape or cd is a derivative work of the original book, and therefore if no permission is granted, it's an infringement. Bleah. I liked the idea a lot! But if we do get together for the tour (I should say WHEN - we *will* do this eventually (newbies, go to http://www.egroups.com/messages/HPTour if you want more info)) we can do a private "reading" of portions of the book - as long as nobody records it (or we can try for permission - we don't have to go to WB - Scholastic, Bloomsbury or Raincoast (the canadian pubs) would be the source for that) From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 25 17:06:42 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:06:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] James & Lily Potter References: <008201c0865f$4f434e40$37397e82@shelley> Message-ID: <028601c086f6$3dbac120$a62907d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10632 > Well, it could be motivation. James and his friends were actively looking to do this. And who's to say >that Lupin, for instance, wasn't a male Hermione? ;) Refresh my memory, when did someone refer to >J&L as the best students? It could be that one of them, not necessarily James, was a brilliant wizard who >loved to look things up. A cross between F/G Weasley and Hermione, I suppose. > Rina I think Mme Rosmerta - or some one else in the "Three Broomsticks" scene - said that Sirius and James were the cleverest wizards. Does anyone else have a slight problem with this? Sirius is a character that shows flaws, but James... Cleverest wizard, prankster, but still respected and responsible enough to become Headboy, great Seeker... If there were ambitious people who didn't like him - like Severus for example - then that wasn't necessarily a surprise. Apparantly whatever someone did, Potter was there before. Better, liked by everyone. Everyone mourns for James. Why did he have to die, oh, he was sooo brilliant... *yadda, yadda, yadda* And Lily? Noone talks about her, noone mentions if she was good at anything (she was Headgirl so she had to be good!)... I think it's highly unfair. ~ Dinah ~ (who adores Lily and desperately wants JKR to write more about her) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From msl at fc.net Thu Jan 25 17:39:12 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:39:12 -0000 Subject: OT- Star Wars for Marvin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94poc0+mtb6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10633 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Malfoy" wrote: > > It is Mrs. Malfoy now...I dont know, but it is hard to do I do not > remember the location of the SW quiz, I am looking for it for you. > I beg your pardon, Lady Malfoy. I was able to find the following quiz (don't know if it matches yours) and scored 112 out of 250 points, which gives me a rank of "wookie." http://members.tripod.com/~Adam_P_B/starwarshands/obsessed.htm But I think the quiz is incomplete because it measures breadth of obsession (how much stuff you own or know) but not depth (how much SW permeates your psyche, values, and behavior). I suspect it's probably because most peope who run SW fan websites and compose quizzes are too young to know of a world without Star Wars (I notice the quiz give no credit for seeing the movies in their original theatrical releases). For them, SW was this cool thing that existed and all you had to do was go buy or rent it on video. I think the experience is a little different for somebody who, like me, was 8 years old in 1977 and remembers with crystal clarity which theater I was in, what it felt like to stand in line (my dad took us to see the movie as a surprise), the anticipation, how cool it was when the lights dimmed and the movie began with the Fox fanfare and then the sudden *blast* of sound and light as the opening crawl began... There are a couple of things missing from the quiz which convince me that, in fact, I have a deeper and more enduring obsession with Star Wars than the writer of the aforementioned quiz. If he were as obsessed as I am and have been over time, he would have asked questions like these: * Did you buy and read the novelization of Star Wars in 1977 before you actually saw the movie? (The book came out a couple of months in advance of the movie's release.) Did you wear it out within a couple of months and have to buy a new one? * After seeing ESB in 1980, did you spend the next couple of years reading everything you could about ESP and telekinesis, practicing in your room at night, desperately trying to move your plastic model of Vader's tie fighter with the power of your mind alone? Do you still find yourself trying it on a semi-regular basis, in an offhand absent-minded way, even though you are now an adult? * Did you build your own action figures out of wood in the garage because your parents were too damn cheap to buy you all the ones you wanted? Did you build the spaceships out of Legos (not Star Wars franchised Lego kits--I mean ordinary old generic Legos) because, again, your parents considered the actual toys too expensive? * Once you learned that the Jedi were based on eastern martial arts, did you start taking lessons because you wanted to get that mental/chi thing going in your life? Did you break any of your bones in this determination? Other people's bones? * Do you fully and firmly know that G. Lucas doesn't quite understand what Star Wars is all about? (The quiz asks if you worship Lucas. IMO, I outrank him.) Stuff like that. :-) Marvin Who must really be one tragically obsessed pudknocker to have written this post.... From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 17:45:59 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:45:59 -0000 Subject: Hermione's Family In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010125092023.01901280@pop31.ync.net> Message-ID: <94poon+gsvj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10634 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Christine Olson wrote: "Anyway, although this has probably been covered on this list before, I am so curious about Hermione's family. I would for JKR to flashback to the time when Hermione received her acceptance letter to Hogwarts. Did she know she was a witch? Did her parents? If not, what was the reaction to her going to Hogwarts? How does she communicate with them. Do Owls deliver to muggles. Do they know what kind of danger she has been put in. Did they tell them when she was in the infirmary with fur and a tail? And what did they say when she came home with her teeth fixed not by orthodontia? These are the questions that perplex me." Hermione's family hasn't been discussed that much, really. How would you react if your child got a Hogwarts letter? Here are two professionals, dentists, who get a letter that their daughter has just been accepted to a school for witches and wizards. And they just let her go? Huh? How were they convinced? Perhaps Hermione had been doing some very strange things in her childhood and the explanation was a relief, but we aren't told. (Think about the strange things Harry had been doing before he got his letter.) I was curious enough about it that I wrote a fanfic, "The Letter", on that very topic. You can find it on http://www.fanfiction.net, under my pen-name, "Dadgrid." [what a shameless plug] Many of our members have written fanfic to explore questions like this or to extend the Harry story in various ways. Look for Ebony, Cassandra Claire, Lori Summers, Penny Linsenmayer, and others. From rina at love-productions.com Thu Jan 25 17:51:17 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:51:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Sorting Hat and etc. Message-ID: <004e01c086f7$6aedfe40$34fbb5ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10635 Steph wrote: <<> Hogwarts have some sort of a graduation for their 7th year students? Some > wizards go to higher schooling, right? So, don't they have to graduate? Or > is there something during the dinner?>> How do we know there's higher schooling? Percy evidently did extremely well on his NEWTS, but he didn't go to more school, he went straight to work at the ministry. While I can see Hermione going to a Muggle college and claiming private schooling from 11-17 (can you do that in Britain? You can here), I thought the natural wizarding way was to finish Hogwarts and get a job. I'd guess there's some nice little dinner/ceremony at the end of 7th year, but that's about it. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 25 17:55:21 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 25 Jan 2001 09:55:21 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Audioplays Message-ID: <20010125175521.15524.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10636 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From rlpenar at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 17:56:59 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (Becky Penar) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:56:59 -0000 Subject: Ode to Harry Potter Message-ID: <94ppdb+h2k9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10637 This may be old news, but I just came across this Ode to Harry Potter... http://www.oceanazur.com/index.htm Becky From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 18:08:38 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:08:38 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Audioplays: DD/PoU? In-Reply-To: <94po1d+ic9b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10638 heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: >> >> Hmm. Unless we actually got together to record it during the tour or >> something, it'd be hard to do individual voices. Rather, I > recommend doing >> it chapter by chapter. This is, of course, assuming that it's not > illegal to >> do so :) >> > > Yeah, sorry, copyright infringement, blah, blah, blah. > An audio recording of a book when said recording is affixed onto > recordable media, like a hard drive, tape player, videotape or cd is > a derivative work of the original book, and therefore if no > permission is granted, it's an infringement. > Bleah. I liked the idea a lot! But if we do get together for the tour > (I should say WHEN - we *will* do this eventually (newbies, go to > http://www.egroups.com/messages/HPTour if you want more info)) we can > do a private "reading" of portions of the book - as long as nobody > records it (or we can try for permission - we don't have to go to WB - > Scholastic, Bloomsbury or Raincoast (the canadian pubs) would be the > source for that) ::sudden thought:: Okay, Heidi (and other legal folks) -- would a recording of Draco Dormiens or PoU, assuming Cassie/Lori agrees, be an infringement on JKR/WB's rights? Cassie/Lori, what are your thoughts on the matter? --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 18:14:49 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:14:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise References: <94ofdu+l6hk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A706D19.74D1B91F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10639 Christy Kwak wrote: > Have you seen the Snitch key ring? > I was just in the Hallmark in my mall and saw it there. It's really > cute! But when I picked it up (it was about the size of a large > marble, it was heavy! I was surprised at the weight of it! I really > wanted it but my keys are heavy enough without it! > Hmmm...I wonder if the Warner Brothers in the mall has something > similar but lighter....sheesh...as if I'm not already addicted enough > (41% after only 3 weeks of being 'into' HP!) Oh well, off to feed my > addictions! Warner Brothers has a wonderful Snitch keyring, about the size of a hacky-sack (spelling?), stuffed, made of gold lame, with white-with-iridescent-overtones wings. I've seen the heavy metal one, with the wings so very likely to break off, and altogether likely to break your foot if you drop it, and I altogether prefer the stuffed shiny gold one. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 18:23:22 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:23:22 -0600 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Lily Evans References: <01c086d4$14f28240$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <3A706F1A.4F91F7BE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10640 Monika Zaboklicka wrote: > There's one thing I can't understand, though - why Dumbledore didn't talk to > the Dursleys? Why did he only leave the letter? Because they could have said no. Driven by social convention as they are, when faced with an infant relative abandoned on the doorstep, with no means to contact those who left him, and nowhere else to dump him, they had no choice. And Dumbledore had laid the groundwork for Harry to be protected there. However, if they'd had a person to talk to, they would have managed to refuse. At least, that's my take. --Amanda From klaatu at primenet.com Thu Jan 25 18:26:47 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:26:47 -0700 Subject: OT - Prospero's Children - Book recommendation Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10641 Just finished this book, and haven't seen it mentioned here on HP4GU yet. It's a great read -- definitely more adult in tone than HP, with marvelous descriptive imagery. It rather reminds me of the "Dark is Rising" series by Susan Cooper. Check it out : Review PROSPERO'S CHILDREN by Jan Siegel (orig. pub. 1999 in UK, 2000 in USA) "Something was lost, long, long ago, before the beginnings of history: few remain who would recognize it, fewer still who would know the secret of its use . . ." It began ages past in fabled Atlantis, when a mad, power-hungry queen forged a key to a door never meant to be opened by mortal man--its inception would hasten her own death and the extinction of her vainglorious race. For millennia the key lay forgotten beneath the waves, lost amid the ruins of what had been the most beautiful city on Earth. But however jealously the sea hoards its secrets, sooner or later it yields them up. Now, in present-day Yorkshire, that time has come. And for young Fernanda Capel, life will never be the same again. This extraordinary new fantasy adventure--the first volume in a trilogy by Jan Siegel--is destined to become a classic. Its every sentence crafted with rare magic and beauty, Prospero's Children unlocks the secrets of ancient Atlantis and of a young girl's heart, revealing a world of never-to-be-forgotten wonders and terrors like nothing you have read before. ------------------ From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 18:26:17 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:26:17 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The first step References: <94pbuu+e8sj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A706FC9.FCC88FF2@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10642 Amy wrote: > What a relief to stop living a secret life . . . Wait until yours starts with the civil disobedience thing, like my husband deliberately taking forever to finish even book 1, when he knows I can't buy the Trivia Game until he's done..... --Amanda From klaatu at primenet.com Thu Jan 25 18:24:26 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:24:26 -0700 Subject: Harry's abilities (normal or otherwise) In-Reply-To: <94p1v9+h6up@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10643 I think Harry has it in him to become as powerful a wizard as Dumbledore and Voldemort. In every area of human talent, there are a few geniuses who, by a combination of innate talent and training, rise to the top of their field. I think Harry is Dumbledore's successor -- he will end up the Grand Old Wizard by the end of his life, if he lives as long as D. His relationship with Fawkes the Phoenix embodies this. Fawkes has taken Harry under his wing (ha ha), and when Dumbledore passes on to the next great adventure, I think Fawkes will stay with Harry, as Dumbledore's "heir". I don't mean that Harry will end up Headmaster of Hogwarts -- I just don't see that in his future. The question is, what will Harry do with the rest of his life, if he survives and defeats Voldemort? Will he spend it attempting to squelch all the Pretenders to Voldemort's throne? Will he go off into hiding? Will he marry and have a family? I wonder if we'll be able to envision his future once we've finished Book 7.... From StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 18:27:48 2001 From: StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com (Stephanie Malfoy) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:27:48 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10644 Actually, yes they do. it is kind of large, but it is a stuffed one. I got ont from santy clause this year They are neat, not exactly to size, but hey, thats life huh... Stephanie Malfoy Who just got her rights read to her....it was funny, esp bc the guy looks just like I would picture Cornelius Fudge (dont worry, nothing serious....just being questioned) >Aloha! >Have you seen the Snitch key ring? >I was just in the Hallmark in my mall and saw it there. It's really >cute! But when I picked it up (it was about the size of a large >marble, it was heavy! I was surprised at the weight of it! I really >wanted it but my keys are heavy enough without it! >Hmmm...I wonder if the Warner Brothers in the mall has something >similar but lighter....sheesh...as if I'm not already addicted enough >(41% after only 3 weeks of being 'into' HP!) Oh well, off to feed my >addictions! ><:o) > >B I G B I G > O N O N > >Chris _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 18:29:58 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:29:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source References: <94pcak+adae@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A7070A6.9FB20662@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10645 Becky Penar wrote: > I agree Penny, if this were just about Lily saving Harry, don't you > think that someone like Lucius or Draco Malfoy, or someone else who > doesn't like Harry, would have brought it up by now that it's really > not Harry that is special, but all of this attention is because of > his mother?? Did that make sense? Yes. And I thought of a distinction that might have been made before, but I don't recall it if so---the Avada Kedavra curse didn't simply not work. It *rebounded.* That's two different things. We've seen that curses, hexes, spells, whatever, can be eluded physically (aka, graveyard scene), and we've seen that they sometimes don't work, or not completely ("it still had a willow-patterned shell..."). But except for this one instance, they don't rebound onto the caster. Is this significant? --Amanda From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 18:30:12 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:30:12 +0000 Subject: OT: UK: Great comparison service for books, audiobooks etc Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10646 Okay, simple OT announcement here. I've recently stumbled upon easyValue.com (Yes, as in easyJet/easyEverything/easyRentacar), which is a great service for comparing prices of books, audiobooks, videos etc. I saved 5 pounds on a Buffy Boxed Set (::grin::), and some of the places they direct you have many books on 50% off! Just a public service announcement here :) --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 18:31:42 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:31:42 -0600 Subject: Speed on the draw References: <01c086da$9a190f60$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <3A70710E.4F41731E@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10647 Monika Zaboklicka wrote: > In 13-Muggles-at-one-go incident Pettigrew was also faster than Black, > contrary to McGonagall's claim that he was always hopeless at dueling. If > *that* was hopelessness, guess how poor Black is at it... > But perhaps Pettigrew learnt his tricks from Voldemort. Or perhaps Black wasn't tremendously on the ball. What with fatigue, grief for his two best friends' deaths, rage at his two best friends' deaths, and betrayal, he might have been a bit off the mark, eh? --Amanda From dedorman at earthlink.net Thu Jan 25 18:43:21 2001 From: dedorman at earthlink.net (Erin Dorman) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:43:21 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A706D19.74D1B91F@texas.net> References: <94ofdu+l6hk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010125124255.009ef010@earthlink.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10648 Do you know if they have them on their websites???? I'm highly interested in this! Erin At 12:14 PM 1/25/01 -0600, you wrote: >Warner Brothers has a wonderful Snitch keyring, about the size of a >hacky-sack (spelling?), stuffed, made of gold lame, with >white-with-iridescent-overtones wings. I've seen the heavy metal one, with >the wings so very likely to break off, and altogether likely to break your >foot if you drop it, and I altogether prefer the stuffed shiny gold one. > >--Amanda From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 18:37:50 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:37:50 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] James & Lily Potter References: <008201c0865f$4f434e40$37397e82@shelley> <028601c086f6$3dbac120$a62907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A70727E.9506E698@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10649 Dinah wrote: > Apparantly whatever > someone did, Potter was there before. Better, liked by everyone. Everyone > mourns for James. Why did he have to die, oh, he was sooo brilliant... > *yadda, yadda, yadda* And Lily? Noone talks about her, noone mentions if she > was good at anything (she was Headgirl so she had to be good!)... I think > it's highly unfair. Reminder--no one talks about her that *Harry's* heard. The overheard conversation happened to include more about James than Lily, because it involved the history of the Marauders. There are any number of reasons people haven't given Harry specifics about his mother yet. --Amanda From john at walton.to Thu Jan 25 18:39:29 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:39:29 +0000 Subject: Hog's Head/Three Broomsticks (was: Today's HP Page-A-Day Calender page) In-Reply-To: <94pm6j+kmmr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10650 Mike Schubert wrote: > "Rearrange the following letters to reveal 'where Hagrid gets a pint > or two (or a dragon)' > SHGO HDEA" > > Now, the answer it gives is "Hog's Head". But didn't he get it at the > Three Broomsticks, in Hogsmeade? I just checked SS and all I could > find was something along the lines of "I was in the town at the pub." > What the heck? Is it a mistake on the Page-A-Day people's part, or > mine? > -Mike You've just found another one of those reprehensible and unnecessary mistakes on the part of the merchandising people (others include a blonde Hermione). This is what happens when you let the merchandising companies in. I'm just waiting for the Heather Locklear-esque Hermione and the Hulk Hogan-esque Harry. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From editor at texas.net Thu Jan 25 18:41:33 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:41:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Magical notions of prejudice (was Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns) References: <94p8kh+g5jp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A70735D.8D6073CE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10651 Amy wrote: > Ron's "get away from me, werewolf!" in the Shrieking Shack is a very > painful moment IMO. He's in agony and he thinks Lupin has betrayed > and is about to kill them all, so it's very understandable, but it > shows a bigotry that is disturbing just the same. (To his credit, he > doesn't hold Hagrid's background against him at all.) Remember Hagrid's background is genetic, and Lupin's problem is a disease. Contagious. Nasty. Incurable. Kind of like if you just found out your close friend had AIDS. It would wack you out a bit, even if you weren't in quite a bit of physical pain and simultaneously trying to assimilate a very, very bizarre situation. --Amanda From cassandraclaire at mail.com Thu Jan 25 18:48:53 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:48:53 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities/audio recordings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94psel+aeif@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10652 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, John Walton wrote: > Keith said: Keith wrote: I thought of this while trying to hold up the super- Harry theory. I believe it may, just may, support it. Possibly James and Lily's abilities have combined to make Harry immensely powerful on an instinctive/higher level which he hasn't learned how to access yet. John: Magids! Yay! It's interesting that our two most highly-regarded works of fanfiction both take the "higher level" thing as part of their plots. Lori has the Mage thing going, and Cassie has the Magid thing. I always wonder if I would have taken the story in a different direction if I had joined HP4GU before I wrote DD. It seemed to me self-evident that there was * something * special about Harry -- otherwise, why would Voldemort have wanted to kill him in the first place, and why would the curse have rebounded when he did? Without really thinking about it, I instinctively subscribed to the theory that Lily's sacrifice prevented Harry from dying, but wouldn't have been enough to cause Voldemort's destruction (as has been pointed out numerous times, certainly during V's reign of terror someone must have died to protect someone else before Lily did it.) So I assumed it had to be something special about Harry in particular, although "super-powers" certainly might well not have been it, that just seemed like a handy solution at the time, but as I've been following this discussion I have come to wonder if perhaps another explanation might not be more satisfactory. (Search me if I can figure out what, though.) And thanks for the "highly-regarded" plug although there's an egroup out there that refers to mine and Lori's stories as "those fanfictions that appeal to the lowest common denominator." I guess that means y'all. (Somehow ASA seems to have escaped censure, although Penny and Carole get referred to as "Peggy and Carole"..can't win 'em all I suppose.) John wrote: "::sudden thought:: Okay, Heidi (and other legal folks) -- would a recording of Draco Dormiens or PoU, assuming Cassie/Lori agrees, be an infringement on JKR/WB's rights? Cassie/Lori, what are your thoughts on the matter?" I wouldn't have a problem with it as long as whoever played Draco agreed to wear the leather pants. Cassie From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Thu Jan 25 18:43:19 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:43:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew/random thoughts References: <01c086da$9a190f60$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <002601c086fe$d1474d20$e77bd63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10653 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monika Zaboklicka" > >1. His skill as a Wizard > > > >FACT: He knows a curse that could destroy 13 muggles (and one > >presumes the surrounding area) and he becomes an animagus. > > > >MEMORY: James and Sirius had to help him a lot with the Animagus > >charm, concurred by McGonagall having to hassle his in class. > > > In 13-Muggles-at-one-go incident Pettigrew was also faster than Black, > contrary to McGonagall's claim that he was always hopeless at dueling. If > *that* was hopelessness, guess how poor Black is at it... > But perhaps Pettigrew learnt his tricks from Voldemort. You have to keep in mind Sirius' mental condition at the moment Pettigrew threw that curse. In the previous 48 hours or so, he's realized that one of his closest friends (and not the one he suspected) was a spy for Voldemort. He had seen the wreckage of his best friend's house and maybe even their bodies. He has come to the realization that they were dead and Harry was an orphan because of his lousy idea to make Peter the secret keeper. That must have been a rather crushing blow to him. Isn't a symptom of shock a decrease in reaction time. I venture to guess Black was not up to his usual skill that night when Peter bested him. Additionally the curse itself, IIRC appears to be a dark arts curse, at least thats the impression the general wizarding public has, therefore not something Black was expecting or maybe even knew how to defend against. Also, Black was pursueing Pettigrew, he was expecting Pettigrew to be in a defensive position. I'm not sure it occurred to Black that Peter might attack, although it should have. I'm not saying that Pettigrew is not a reasonably skilled wizard, but I think the circumstances of that night put Sirius "off his game" so to speak. I have a question about that curse. If it was powerful enough to kill 12 muggles at a fair distance, why weren't Pettigrew and Black killed by it. Was it a curse that would only kill muggles? Even if it was directed away from them, you would think something with that much energy would impact the people closest to the origin of the curse. I always got the impression that Black and Pettigrew were standing rather close to one another at that point. I guess Pettigrew blocked the curse from impacting Black, as the curse was thrown behind Pettigrew's back, but he would have had to transform at the moment the curse was uttered in order to prevent it from harming himself...hmmmm. Any ideas? > > >2. Friendships > > >So, is it really fair to blame Peter for not having faith in his > >friends? Only James and Sirius seemed to trust each other completely. > > > Couldn't agree more. For me, the Marauders' friendship wasn't as great as > Lupin and Black seem to remember it. I don't quite believe in Sirius's > declaration "we would have died for you!" Just curious as to why you don't believe this statement. I think during the time before James and Lily were betrayed, Sirius would have been willing to die for any of the Marauders. Why would he entrust Peter with the job of Secret Keeper if he didn't trust Pettigrew. He might not have believed Peter was an exceptional wizard, but he entrusted James and Lily, and Harry's lives to him. > I am quite willing to believe that > James and Sirius were real friends, and that perhaps James liked Remus and > Peter very much. Anyway, I'm not so sure about Black. I honestly believe > that Lupin would not be allowed to stay in Hogwarts if he attacked another > student, no matter whose fault it'd be or how loudly Dumbledore protested. > Did Black think of that when he was sending Snape to Shrieking Shack? So are you saying, you think Sirius wasn't that fond of Remus, that's why he sent Snape down to the Shreiking shack? Its always been my impression of Black's character that he didn't really think through the consequences of this prank. Teenage boys are notorious for pulling very dangerous pranks that had they spent as much time thinking of the real consequences of their actions as they did thinking up the prank, they wouldn't pull the prank. Its been my impression that pre-Azkaban Sirius was rather arrogant and convinced of his own cleverness, not very introspective and not very responsible. You can see the difference between James and Sirius in their reaction to the prank. Sirius instigated it (not vey mature) and James realized the consequences and risked his life to fix it (much more mature). Carole responding to any and all posts having the slightest bit to do with Sirius. From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 25 18:51:31 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:51:31 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: OT- Star Wars for Marvin References: <94poc0+mtb6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <003101c086ff$d5f109a0$de2a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10654 > I beg your pardon, Lady Malfoy. I was able to find the following quiz > (don't know if it matches yours) and scored 112 out of 250 points, > which gives me a rank of "wookie." > Marvin May I say I think the test is stupid? Okay, so I'm a little insulted because I'm just an Astromech Droid, but still... If I would like "to do" it with one of the Characters, I'd like Lando Calrissian (or at least ol' Darthie). He was not on the page. And I have a real-life tall Luke Skywalker Cardboard figure which didn't give me a point :-( if you like such things you might want to do this test: http://starwarsquiz.hypermart.net/ And this one is great, too. http://www.outofservice.com/starwars/ I am as agreeable as Darth Vader and as concienctious as Hand Solo... *ponder* That doesn't mix well with Remus, does it? ~ Dinah ~ (Leia-character and proud of it - but, hey, in that new test I was Lando - Huh???) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From bbennett at joymail.com Thu Jan 25 18:53:20 2001 From: bbennett at joymail.com (bbennett at joymail.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:53:20 -0000 Subject: The Ship Hits the Fan (long, but filled with brilliant insights) In-Reply-To: <200101232222.f0NMMYC16849@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94psn0+nci0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10655 Kathy wrote: > All that said, I REALLY liked Penny's idea of the various ships as party liners sailing along the HP waters. I have been thinking about the Good Ship R/H: It's large and looks fairly rickety from the outside, but it's held up by magic and is much more sturdy than some might think. It has chess sets throughout and small explosions are considered a matter of course.> Kathy, I'd like to apply for the position of Recreation Director, providing Cassandra and AngieJ will occasionally invite me to dinghy over for afternoon tea. B Bennett From monika at darwin.inka.de Thu Jan 25 19:02:28 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:02:28 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <002301c0862e$3368d5e0$6e51d63f@oemcomputer> References: <94lf6a+4abq@eGroups.com> <002301c0862e$3368d5e0$6e51d63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10656 On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:50:43 -0500, "Carole Estes" wrote: >Sirius was at the bottom of my list...which, while he is my favorite >character, I don't think I am remotely like him. So does this mean I need >to write some slash fanfic between Bill and Sirius? Hmmmmm Don't you dare... *eg* My results: # 1 Minerva McGonagall # 2 Albus Dumbledore # 3 Bill Weasley # 4 Severus Snape What should I say? McGonagall and Dumbledore seem to be ok, but SNAPE so high in this list?! I'm utterly shocked... At the bottom of my list is Ron, just behind Sirius who came as #15... Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From muggle-reader at angelfire.com Thu Jan 25 19:07:38 2001 From: muggle-reader at angelfire.com (Demelza ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:07:38 -0000 Subject: Today's HP Page-A-Day Calander page: In-Reply-To: <94pm6j+kmmr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94pthq+fpr1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10657 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: > "Rearrange the following letters to reveal 'where Hagrid gets a pint > or two (or a dragon)' > SHGO HDEA" > > Now, the answer it gives is "Hog's Head". But didn't he get it at the > Three Broomsticks, in Hogsmeade? I just checked SS and all I could > find was something along the lines of "I was in the town at the pub." > What the heck? Is it a mistake on the Page-A-Day people's part, or > mine? > -Mike It's in SS chapter 16, American version. I don't have the book in front of me right now, but I consulted my SS summary (http://www.geocities.com/hogwartsprimer/hpbk1.html) Demelza From jferer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 19:17:52 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:17:52 -0000 Subject: Audioplays In-Reply-To: <20010125175521.15524.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: <94pu50+6hb4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10658 My tongue was firmly in cheek about a dialogue coach working cheap. Obviously. I live in Connecticut and work in the city, so I know "cheap" isn't in the vocabulary. You probably know better than anyone here how we might do it. I wonder if it would be feasible for each cast member to record his lines, translate them to MP3, and post them for assembly by a sound editor? I imagine it will be difficult for an amateur to say lines naturally without interaction with other members of the cast, and directing will be a pain. What wouldn't surprise me is that we have talents in this group we scarce imagine. We would need scriptwriters and editors cast members a director a sound editor A special effects/ Foley artist/ whatever type bail money What else? From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 25 19:27:38 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 25 Jan 2001 11:27:38 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT - Book recommendation - Orson Scott Card Message-ID: <20010125192738.20638.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10659 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From ebonyink at hotmail.com Wed Jan 24 04:44:25 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 04:44:25 Subject: Sorting Hat Mistake Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10660 >Sara Metz wrote: > > > BTW, has anyone tried the Hogwarts House Sorter at: > > http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat? > > I'm Gryffindor followed by Hufflepuff. It'll be interesting to see if >everybody gets into the house they want to get into. And Amanda wrote: >I'm Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, Slytherin. I feel an affinity for >Ravenclaw, but I'll take Gryffindor, I suppose. Confession: the only Sorter I've ever tried was the one at Jenna's UHPFC site last February... I got Ravenclaw on the luck of the draw and didn't want to test it again. ;-) According to the above website, I'm a Gryffindor... and have the same Sorting order as Amanda does. Funny. I don't feel as if I'm particularly brave at heart. The only thing leonine about me is my sun sign... and I'm not into astrology. Needless to say, I'm a bit disappointed. Although I'd rather wear Ravenclaw blue, I suppose there are worse things to be. --Ebony AKA AngieJ (whose college undergrad mascot was a Slytherin-esque snake) <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Thu Jan 25 19:36:48 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:36:48 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Audioplays References: <94pu50+6hb4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001f01c08706$2933fb80$dbf106d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10661 From: Jim Ferer > We would need > scriptwriters and editors > cast members > a director > a sound editor > A special effects/ Foley artist/ whatever type > bail money > What else? Maybe Caius can write some Soundtrack songs? Really too tired to think about anything else now. Maybe hairstylists and make-up artists? And of course someone to care for the animals/animagi. If you really start doing something like this, I'd like to sign up as one of the scriptwriters/editors. Since I considered doing something like this as a job I'd be highly interested in checking it out. And I think I'm able to do it. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From joym999 at aol.com Thu Jan 25 19:47:49 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (Joywitch ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:47:49 -0000 Subject: Today's HP Page-A-Day Calander page: In-Reply-To: <94pm6j+kmmr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94pvt5+2pmm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10662 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Mike Schubert" wrote: > "Rearrange the following letters to reveal 'where Hagrid gets a pint > or two (or a dragon)' > SHGO HDEA" > > Now, the answer it gives is "Hog's Head". But didn't he get it at the > Three Broomsticks, in Hogsmeade? I just checked SS and all I could > find was something along the lines of "I was in the town at the pub." > What the heck? Is it a mistake on the Page-A-Day people's part, or > mine? > -Mike According to my memory and, better yet, the Harry Potter Lexicon, there are TWO pubs in Hogsmeade, The Hogs Head and the Three Broomsticks. Hagrid seems to frequent them both, but mostly the Hogs Head, which is mentioned by name in several of the books, starting, I think with SS/PS. I dont think the Three Broomsticks is mentioned until PoA. -- Joywitch From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Thu Jan 25 19:59:38 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (milz ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:59:38 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew/random thoughts In-Reply-To: <002601c086fe$d1474d20$e77bd63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94q0ja+rcjc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10663 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Carole Estes" . > I have a question about that curse. If it was powerful enough to kill 12 > muggles at a fair distance, why weren't Pettigrew and Black killed by it. > Was it a curse that would only kill muggles? Even if it was directed away > from them, you would think something with that much energy would impact the > people closest to the origin of the curse. I always got the impression that > Black and Pettigrew were standing rather close to one another at that point. > I guess Pettigrew blocked the curse from impacting Black, as the curse was > thrown behind Pettigrew's back, but he would have had to transform at the > moment the curse was uttered in order to prevent it from harming > himself...hmmmm. Any ideas? > Carole >From what Sirius says in PoA, he and Peter are facing each other. Peter yells an accusation that Sirius killed James and Lily. Peter had his wand pointing behind him and zapped those people. So the curse was directed away from Peter and Sirius, but came from a direction that would really implicate Sirius. People <---A---- Peter Sirius <----B---- A = direction of Peter's wand during duel B= direction of Sirius' wand during duel From summers.65 at osu.edu Thu Jan 25 19:58:10 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:58:10 -0500 Subject: Audiobooks Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10664 I think audioplays of fanfic would be great! For some of my Trek fanfic, I did audiobooks of them myself and offered them to the readers. Half dozen or so took me up on it. Lori ************************************************** Lori "Hi-Keeba" Summers "There are some places where the road keeps on going." --Bud Parker Last movie seen: "What Women Want" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Good Omens" by Pratchett and Gaiman *************************************************** From msl at fc.net Thu Jan 25 20:10:17 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long, Jr.) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:10:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: OT- Star Wars for Marvin In-Reply-To: <980449772.119622.63355.l8@egroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10665 > From: "Dinah" > Subject: Re: Re: OT- Star Wars for Marvin > > May I say I think the test is stupid? Okay, so I'm a little insulted because > I'm just an Astromech Droid, but still... If I would like "to do" it with > one of the Characters, I'd like Lando Calrissian (or at least ol' Darthie). > He was not on the page. And I have a real-life tall Luke Skywalker Cardboard > figure which didn't give me a point :-( Yeah, I thought the test was kind of goofy. I suspect it mostly measures how similar you are to the test-writer rather than attempting to provide a balanced scale of reference. > if you like such things you might want to do this test: > http://starwarsquiz.hypermart.net/ Huh! From the Expanded Universe I'm pretty close to Callista @ 77%; from the classic movies I'm pretty close to Luke Skywalker at 74%; and from Ep. 1 I'm Darth Maul @ 73%. > And this one is great, too. > http://www.outofservice.com/starwars/ Marvelous! Let's see, I'm: as Open as Wicket (70%) as Conscientious as Adm. Ozzel (30%) as Extroverted as a Wampa (4%) as Agreeable as Darth Vader (44%), and as Neurotic as Chewbacca (55%) (They need to split Darth Vader into Vader and Anakin for this: if you're just "average agreeable" they give you DV on the grounds of his split personality.) Marvin Long Austin, Texas From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Thu Jan 25 20:18:50 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:18:50 -0000 Subject: OT - Calling all Aussie book addicts Message-ID: <014301c0870c$0ae040c0$be307bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 10666 Hi I'm currently reading two books by Michael Lawrence, who I understand is Australian. They are " The Poltergoose" and " The Killer Underpants ". Both extremely funny and well worth checking out. ( I mean laugh out loud until your sides split funny here ) Is there anyone who can give me an idea of what else he's written and where I could get hold of said writings ? Thanks muchly for reading this !! Michelle PS : Please reply off list !! From ABoyko at starchoice.com Thu Jan 25 20:25:08 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:25:08 -0400 Subject: OT- Star Wars for Marvin Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEE99@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10667 > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:39:12 -0000 > From: "Marvin Long" > Subject: Re: OT- Star Wars for Marvin > > There are a couple of things missing from the quiz which convince me > that, in fact, I have a deeper and more enduring obsession with Star > Wars than the writer of the aforementioned quiz. If he were as > obsessed as I am and have been over time, he would have asked > questions like these: > > * Did you buy and read the novelization of Star Wars in 1977 before > you actually saw the movie? (The book came out a couple of months in > advance of the movie's release.) Did you wear it out within a couple > of months and have to buy a new one? > I first saw SW in London, 1979, and still have my battered copy of the British edition. Little did I know that TESB was being filmed in the city at the same time. I was 13, so I wasn't going to stalk anybody, but to have been in the same city as Harrison Ford and not to have known ... Well, he's filming in Nova Scotia soon, which is 4 hours away, so I'd better learn how to be an efficient stalker. > * After seeing ESB in 1980, did you spend the next couple of years > reading everything you could about ESP and telekinesis, practicing in > your room at night, desperately trying to move your plastic model of > Vader's tie fighter with the power of your mind alone? > > Do you still find yourself trying it on a semi-regular basis, in an > offhand absent-minded way, even though you are now an adult? > Yes. I'm still trying to grab remote controls with my mind. Here are a couple more: * Do you consider it blasphemy when a bodybuilder uses the Star Wars theme as his background music while he flexes for the judges? * Do you consider people your own age, who have never seen any of the movies, to be mentally ill? Angela From rina at love-productions.com Thu Jan 25 20:46:44 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:46:44 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise Message-ID: <00ad01c0870f$ed7e23e0$34fbb5ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10668 Amanda wrote: <> This is the one my brother has. I love it!! I keep trying to steal it, but he steals it back. I didn't know there was a metal one. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:00:09 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:00:09 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94q459+r59a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10669 My results: # 1 Gryffindor # 2 Ravenclaw # 3 Hufflepuff # 4 Slytherin which I think is a joke. Flattering, but a joke. I'm smart and bookish and decidely unbrave. I whimper when I have to go to the dentist. However, I won't complain, because I'm very pleased with my character ratings: # 1 Albus Dumbledore # 2 Ron Weasley # 3 Remus Lupin # 4 Rubeus Hagrid # 5 Harry Potter # 6 Hermione Granger # 7 Charlie Weasley # 8 Bill Weasley # 9 Minerva McGonagall # 10 Neville Longbottom # 11 Severus Snape # 12 Draco Malfoy # 13 Voldemort # 14 Percy Weasley # 15 Sirius Black # 16 Fred/George Weasley Apparently having PMS-induced crying jags makes me like Lupin (unapproachable at that time of the month). In that case, they're worth it! My chatname "lupinesque" was well-chosen after all! Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:03:30 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:03:30 -0000 Subject: R/H-er speaks (was The Ship Hits the Fan) In-Reply-To: <200101232222.f0NMMYC16849@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94q4b2+jnb9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10670 This R/Her has been quiet (quiet on this subject--not quiet in general! ) because the longer I read the various ship posts, hilarious though they are, the less I care who ends up with whom. Having heard Kathy's clarion call I will say that I am totally unconvinced that Harry likes Hermione* and totally convinced that Ron does. As to the heart of the fair lady herself, I wouldn't venture a guess, though if forced to put my money on one or the other I'd go with Ron. (BTW, Ebony: "the R/Hers would never permit a menage a trois"--say what? I think Ron/Harry makes [marginally] more sense than H/H. So with an H/H/R ship I at least agree with 2 out of 3! LOL!) *However,* I'm an R/H shipper in the sense that I think this is where JKR is going, not because I actually think these two should be together. Actually I don't know if she's even going there long-term, though I will be surprised and disappointed if they don't fulfill the hints of GoF by getting into *some* kind of relationship for the length of a book or so. Disappointed because I think artistic integrity demands that she follow it through (if only to show that a summer apart quashed any budding romance), not disappointed because my heart is set on seeing the two together. So what's a shipper? Someone who wants to see a particular pair together (sense A)? Someone who thinks two people *are* a couple in canon or will be (sense b)? Someone who has a crush on a character and therefore desperately wishes to see him/her in a romance to flesh out his/her own fantasies (sense C)? Amy Z R/H shipper in sense B Lupin/anyone-deserving-of-the-divine-RL shipper in sense C *but if he goes the arm-candy route I will (a) throw up my Cauldron Cakes and (b) quit HP cold turkey in protest. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:04:26 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:04:26 -0000 Subject: Various notes to/about Pippin Message-ID: <94q4cq+pqt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10671 Hi Pippin-- (1) Aha, a Tolkien fan. Did you take your name from Lord of the Rings? (2) Your filk made me want to scream with laughter. I'm at work, so I suppressed it, and I think I gave myself a hernia. (But Caius, don't be shy--filk the scene anyway.) (3) I think you should get a prize for authoring the 10,000th post. (I know this is an overdue remark but I've been busy.) Listparents, how about a pack of Every Flavor Beans to the 10,000th poster? Amy Z From klaatu at primenet.com Thu Jan 25 21:10:48 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:10:48 -0700 Subject: Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: <94psel+aeif@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10672 There's something about HARRY specifically. Voldemort had a reason to kill him, even though he was a helpless one-year-old child. A passage from PS/SS, last chapter, when Harry wakes up in the infirmary and talks to Dumbledore: "Well... Voldemort said that he only killed my mother because she tried to stop him from killing me. But why would he want to kill me in the first place?' Dumbledore sighed very deeply this time. 'Alas, the first thing you ask me, I cannot tell you. Not today. Not now. You will know, one day... put it from your mind for now, Harry. When you are older... I know you hate to hear this... when you are ready, you will know." SML From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:12:31 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:12:31 -0000 Subject: supportive spouses & merchandise In-Reply-To: <94ph0t+3277@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94q4rv+l9bb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10673 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > My spouse also knows of the obesession and she has only read halfway > through book 2. I keep gently prodding, but as I get into this group > more, it's becoming more frantic. Our nightly dinner conversations go > something like this: ROFL! At least she's reading them, so it's only a matter of time. I think if I could get dh to read the first one he'd be hooked, and then he'd motor through them. He might not get past the anti-fat remarks (I know this idea has been brought up and rejected on this list, but JKR does seem a tad obsessed with Dudley's weight, in a very looksist way) but if I cajole and tell him they are the one flaw in otherwise flawless books I think we could rope him in. This is a man who is reading the entire series of Tolkien notebooks--endless drafts and permutations of bits of LOTR with annotations by Christopher Tolkien. Right now I'm happy with "he knows I'm addicted and he doesn't want a divorce." Amy Z From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Thu Jan 25 21:24:16 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:24:16 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] So just how influential IS Arthur Weasley? In-Reply-To: <94lhvi+qs5f@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010125132204.032b62a0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10674 At 03:25 AM 1/24/01 +0000, Mike Schubert wrote: >What do you >think he would be equated to in, say, U.S. politics? A major cabinet >member? The head of a more minor Dept.? Just an interesting question. Oh, I'd say probably equivalent to Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. ("Where they slide the food under the door" -- Mark Russell) -- Dave From hedwigthecat at aol.com Thu Jan 25 21:19:35 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:19:35 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise Message-ID: <48.109be0ba.27a1f268@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10675 In a message dated Thu, 25 Jan 2001 1:56:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, Erin Dorman writes: << Do you know if they have them on their websites???? I'm highly interested in this! Erin> The Warner Bros. Studio Store web site no longer exists. ~Hedwig~ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:20:04 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:20:04 -0000 Subject: Hog's Head/Three Broomsticks (was: Today's HP Page-A-Day Calender page) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94q5a4+vr5c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10676 > Mike Schubert wrote: > > Now, the answer it gives is "Hog's Head". But didn't he get it at the > > Three Broomsticks, in Hogsmeade? I just checked SS and all I could > > find was something along the lines of "I was in the town at the pub." > > What the heck? Is it a mistake on the Page-A-Day people's part, or > > mine? I hate to type these words, but the WB cronies are correct. Somewhere in SS it says the Hog's Head. I think it's at the end, right after exams when Harry jumps up and goes to ask him about the stranger he spoke to in the pub--during the conversation where they learn he's been telling total strangers how to get past Fluffy. I'm at work (you can tell from the vast amount of non-HP stuff I'm getting done, can't you?) so I can't check the reference. For comfort, I remind you that the calendar people did get Harry's birthday wrong. So we can still feel furious and superior. Amy Z From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 21:19:59 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:19:59 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source In-Reply-To: <94pcak+adae@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94q59v+fotv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10677 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > Also, I've been thinking a lot about the "Lily didn't have to die" > statement, and I'm really beginning to subscribe to the theory that V > was trying to get Lily to his side and she refused. Perhaps V knew > that James would never go to him and assumed Harry wouldn't either, V > wanted to test Lily, so he decides to kill James & Harry, hence, Lily > didn't 'have' to die since she could have just gone with V and not > tried to protect Harry. That's a good idea. Perhaps Lily was in Slytherin, hence the sorting hats initial leaning towards Slytherin for Harry. I don't remember us ever being told which house Lily was in in the canon. We know V was recruiting powerful Slytherin Witches and Wizards; perhaps he was after Lily. However... big problem... Killing her family in front of her was probably not the way to go about recruiting her. In fact it's a bloody stupid way. Also, as she's Harry's mum, he could surely have had her bring Harry up according to his master plan rather than kill him. Dai From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:24:43 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:24:43 -0000 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew/random thoughts/wizarding currency In-Reply-To: <01c086da$9a190f60$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <94q5ir+vqla@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10678 Monika wrote: > In 13-Muggles-at-one-go incident Pettigrew was also faster than Black, > contrary to McGonagall's claim that he was always hopeless at dueling. If > *that* was hopelessness, guess how poor Black is at it... > But perhaps Pettigrew learnt his tricks from Voldemort. Somewhere it says that PP was holding his wand behind his back. So when he first confronted SB he was already holding it--he didn't need to draw. Sirius still should've been more alert. After all, he already knew that PP was the traitor. But I put this down to Sirius's being stunned with grief and guilt, not to Peter's skill as a wizard. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:28:47 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:28:47 -0000 Subject: James & Lily Potter In-Reply-To: <028601c086f6$3dbac120$a62907d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94q5qf+vib7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10679 Dinah wrote: > > I think Mme Rosmerta - or some one else in the "Three Broomsticks" scene - > said that Sirius and James were the cleverest wizards. > Does anyone else have a slight problem with this? Sirius is a character that > shows flaws, but James... > Cleverest wizard, prankster, but still respected and responsible enough to > become Headboy, great Seeker... James was Chaser, actually. Thank goodness--Harry is not like him in EVERY respect. I'm looking forward to learning about some flaws of James's. Amy Z whose Snape side is brought out by perfect characters From sashibuya at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:38:42 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:38:42 -0000 Subject: Sorting Hat and etc./Education system In-Reply-To: <004e01c086f7$6aedfe40$34fbb5ac@shelley> Message-ID: <94q6d2+hiad@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10680 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Steph wrote: > > <<> Hogwarts have some sort of a graduation for their 7th year > students? Some > > wizards go to higher schooling, right? So, don't they have to > graduate? Or > > is there something during the dinner?>> > > How do we know there's higher schooling? Percy evidently did extremely well on his NEWTS, but he didn't go to more school, he went straight to work at the ministry. While I can see Hermione going to a Muggle college and claiming private schooling from 11-17 (can you do that in Britain? You can here), I thought the natural wizarding way was to finish Hogwarts and get a job. I'd guess there's some nice little dinner/ceremony at the end of 7th year, but that's about it. > Yes, that was the impression I had too, based on Percy and no one speaking about any of the older characters going anywhere to an institute of higher education. They just seem to recall their Hogwarts days as their formative yrs; if there was college, there probably could only be one, so everyone would have gone to it, making it probable that someone would have talked about it before. Also, someone told me that JKR did at a talk make a remark dealing with this question. Charmian (so, why no higher ed? With some of the archaic stuff in the world, could further training be provided through a semi-apprenticeship system? Or as somebody suggested, so JKR didn't have to write a sequel. I mean, Tom Brown's schooldays, which I plan to read at some point, was followed by Tom Brown at Oxford.... ) From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 21:40:57 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:40:57 -0000 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Lily Evans In-Reply-To: <01c086d4$14f28240$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <94q6h9+pnvb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10681 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: > >> An Aside: I still wonder where Harry and Hagrid were all day, since > >the > >> Potters were killed > > >Perhaps he had to be taken somewhere along the way to have protective > >charms placed on him ? In which case Godrics Hollow is not necessarily in South Wales as has previously been supposed by some as Hagrid flew over Bristol on his way to Surrey. Wherever Harry was taken in the interim was in South Wales though. In GoF the Sorting Hat describes Godric Gryffindor as being from 'Wild moor.' it is unlikely he came from Wales (we don't have any moors). Hufflepuff seems to have Wales covered as she came from 'Valley Broad', somewhat stereotypically Welsh. Ravenclaw is said to come from 'glen', ie Scotland, and Slytherin from 'fen' ie the north of England. That leaves the South of England for Gryffindor to cover, Dartmoor in Devon perhaps? Assuming (as I always did) that Godrics Hollow has something to do with Godric Gryffindor then it is unlikely that it is in Wales. So, what WAS he doing in South Wales. Assuming, of course, that's where Hagrid was flying from. My above theory could be a complete pile of crap and Godrics Hollow is in fact in America. The direction (Bristol to Surrey) works and it also neatly explains the amount of time taken to bring Harry to his relatives. The Firebolt broom (the fastest available) was supposed to do 0-150mph in x seconds. Assuming that the broom maxes out at 200- 250mph and Sirius' motorbike doesn't fly any faster (why would it? could Sirius know more about flying than the experts who designed the Firebolt?) then the flight time (roughly 24hrs from evening to evening) then Hagrid has a max. distance of 6000 miles west of London. Easily putting him in America at the start of the journey. Dai From andrea at noembromation.com.br Thu Jan 25 21:40:30 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea Bonfanti) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:40:30 -0000 Subject: Fellow Brazilian Hp fan!! (was: Re:which Character and House are you quizzes) In-Reply-To: <000a01c086d9$2560cce0$9cb5d2c8@kfm> Message-ID: <94q6ge+ris2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10682 Margo wrote: > I'm in International Relations univ. down here in Brazil, as I read that > some of you also were in that career... mail me if you'd like to exchange > thoughts on that too! > > Well, I'm really pleased to find this groups, hope to have a good time. Welcome to the list, Margo! Finally, there's another Brazilian here! Now, I can start thinking about a regional HP fan meeting. Feeling less lonely (HP-regionally-wise), Andrea From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 21:47:34 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:47:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: <20010125214734.50795.qmail@web11705.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10683 Er-I just fell off the SS H/H and have swam over to the R/H ship. What can I say? So here I am, captian, one of the few, one of the proud. It just makes sense. Ginny Love __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From foxmoth at qnet.com Thu Jan 25 21:48:59 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:48:59 -0000 Subject: Various notes to/about Pippin In-Reply-To: <94q4cq+pqt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94q70b+op64@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10684 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > Hi Pippin-- > > (1) Aha, a Tolkien fan. Did you take your name from Lord of the Rings? Yes, indeed. It was bestowed on me by another Tolkien fan, hight "Merry" at the age of 15 at summer camp. I adopted it and brought it home, since I much preferred it to my earlier nickname: "shrimp." > > (2) Your filk (But Caius, > don't be shy--filk the scene anyway.) (ditto to Caius) > > (3) I think you should get a prize for authoring the 10,000th post. > (I know this is an overdue remark but I've been busy.) Listparents, > how about a pack of Every Flavor Beans to the 10,000th poster? Yum! Pippin From sashibuya at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 21:49:24 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com ( Charmian) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:49:24 -0000 Subject: Arthur Weasley/Wizarding government In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010125132204.032b62a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <94q714+ifp0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10685 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > At 03:25 AM 1/24/01 +0000, Mike Schubert wrote: > >What do you > >think he would be equated to in, say, U.S. politics? A major cabinet > >member? The head of a more minor Dept.? Just an interesting question. > > Oh, I'd say probably equivalent to Secretary of Housing and Urban > Development. ("Where they slide the food under the door" -- Mark Russell) > > I would guess it's very hard to do equating, because in Britain they have a cabinet style, parliamentary democracy, rather than the system in America where the executive and legislative are more separate, even though in both of them cabinet posts are appointative positions that change with political administrations, wheras Arthur appears to be a rather high ranking civil servant, who's influential, but has been there for years. It seems that for wizards, there is only one ministry, thus making Fudge kind of like the prime minister, although we don't know the precise relationship the wizarding world has with Parliament. I mean, are there elections in the wizarding world? Are there political parties? MPs? What's the judicial system like? Just how did Fudge get made (and who made him) Minister of Magic? Somebody with more knowledge of the mechanics of the British political system, help me make up some kind of better explanation here. :) Charmian From ender_w at msn.com Thu Jan 25 22:14:42 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 17:14:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] fanfic authors References: <94q4cq+pqt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007b01c0871c$501a2a60$4b0a1b3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 10686 I've tried to send this several times and it keeps bouncing. Hopefully it will work this time. I'm writing a fanfic and since none of my friends are HP fans, i have no one to critique it for me. I was wondering if anyone on the list would be interested. thanks ender From StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 22:15:46 2001 From: StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com (Stephanie Malfoy) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:15:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Beta readers Needed Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10687 I am writing a fan fic, my first attempt. My first chapter is almost complete. I need a few people, preferabble a person with UK residency as well, to beta read this for me. My starring character is Draco. If you are interested, email me off-list at StephBecvar at hotmail.com I should be ready to send it out in a few days(chapter one is a little long, but i do not anticipatethe remaining chapters to be this way)...And dont worry, you can tell me how badly it stinks...it will be fun for you... Stephanie Who is praying her story is doing all right _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 22:22:08 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (ffionmiles at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:22:08 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source In-Reply-To: <94q59v+fotv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94q8ug+qbe9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10688 In answer to the 'why did Lily have to die' thing - JK said in an interview that Lily was in Gryffindor, so I don't think V was trying to get her onside - although leaving her to live, with Harry dead wasn't a V-like thing to've done. Also, have you noticed where Harry lived when his parents died? in 'Godric's Hollow' - is this significant? Because there is something special about harry that we don't know, since Dumbledore wouldn't tell him ]last chapter of Book.1] = the reaso why V wanted to kill him [as a baby] in the first place. Is Harry the heir to Godric Gryffindor? Ffion P.S - Dai Evans - are you Welsh? Because your name is very typically Welsh. -- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Dai Evans" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > > > Also, I've been thinking a lot about the "Lily didn't have to die" > > statement, and I'm really beginning to subscribe to the theory that > V > > was trying to get Lily to his side and she refused. Perhaps V knew > > that James would never go to him and assumed Harry wouldn't either, > V > > wanted to test Lily, so he decides to kill James & Harry, hence, > Lily > > didn't 'have' to die since she could have just gone with V and not > > tried to protect Harry. > > That's a good idea. Perhaps Lily was in Slytherin, hence the sorting > hats initial leaning towards Slytherin for Harry. I don't remember us > ever being told which house Lily was in in the canon. We know V was > recruiting powerful Slytherin Witches and Wizards; perhaps he was > after Lily. > > However... big problem... Killing her family in front of her was > probably not the way to go about recruiting her. In fact it's a > bloody stupid way. Also, as she's Harry's mum, he could surely have > had her bring Harry up according to his master plan rather than kill > him. > > > > Dai From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Thu Jan 25 22:34:27 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 25 Jan 2001 14:34:27 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew/random thoughts Message-ID: <20010125223427.24862.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10689 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 22:37:17 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:37:17 -0000 Subject: Star Wars & Ships In-Reply-To: <3A6FA9A1.7D1F16F6@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94q9qt+hsib@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10690 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > I thought of another reason why Harry and Hermione cannot be siblings. > Sirius would *know* this, wouldn't he????! Besides, lots of people (I'm > not one of them) think that graduation from Hogwarts -- marriage -- baby > Harry happened in very short order. Hardly time in that scenario to > have another baby. And, this theory is especially undercut if Hermione > is in fact 2 months younger than Harry rather than 10 months older. > Nope ... there's no way they are siblings. > Penny, I hadn't heard the sibling theory - where did it come from? Did someone find any indication of it, or was it kind of a what if thing? Sounds pretty far-fetched to me, to be honest. I think I'd feel a little cheated if it ended up that way. JKR could probably make me buy it, but I think she can do far better than that. Oh well, I guess it *would* be neat for Harry to find out he had a living relative after all, but not that way... kimberly From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 22:39:27 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (ffionmiles at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:39:27 -0000 Subject: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A441ECC.1895D670@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94q9uv+flfg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10691 Hi - and especially to any UK HP fans - is there any merchandise [as there seems to be in the US] for HP in the UK? Are there any shops selling any figures/bookmarks - even Bertie Botts Every Falvour Beans [which are apparently on sale in US Warner Bros shops]. Thanks! Ffion Oh, and from a devoted Ron fan - I don't like this Harry & Hermione and no Ron-thing that seems to be going on on merchandise! And it's obvious that H/H will never be an item!!! There just isn't that kind of chemistry betweent hem, whereas Ron/Hermione - love/hate thing? From rina at love-productions.com Thu Jan 25 22:34:28 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:34:28 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H-er speaks (was The Ship Hits the Fan) Message-ID: <00ee01c0871e$fa8a2520$34fbb5ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10692 Amy wrote: <> Well, for me, all three. LOL Although I don't really have a crush on Ron (Bill, now....), but I do identify with Hermione and want to see her in some kind of romance. I just really like her and Ron, and it seems that JKR does, too. Time will tell. I've been trying to reason out exactly why I think Ron and Hermione are better suited than Harry and Hermione. I think part of it has to do with their bickering. Hermione's constantly pestering them both, but even more with Ron. Probably my Lucy Maud childhood rearing it's head, but I think it's similar to Ilse and Perry - all those years it came across like she didn't like him much, but she was actually just pushing him because she loved him and knew he could do better than what he was. There's Hermione's reason for the bickering. As for Ron, well, he's a guy. With a crush. I may not have been on the receiving end of a crush many times in my life, but I have enough to know that they usually come in two ways - 1, "You are so wonderful, I agree with everythin you say, you're perfect, blah blah blah," and 2, fighting, chasing, anatgonizing, etc. So there's Ron. Plus, I see it like they've got all these emotions and passions, and because they're so young, it's coming across as bickering rather than love. They're not ready for anything else, but it's building up to the point when they will be. I guess they're just fun. LOL This sounds totally psycho, but I see H/R/H kind of like a triangle - Harry at the tip and Ron and Hermione making the base. R/H kind of connect together, and this supports both Harry and their three way friendship. I don't see R&H leaving Harry out if they were in a relationship any more than they do now. In book four, at least, there are lots of instances where Harry gets fed up with their snipping and leaves to do his own thing, and he doesn't seem to mind or feel especially left out. R&H already spend a lot of time together, and I don't think that would change. It may happen in a lot of stories that two hook up and the third is left hanging in the air, but those are very different from the books. For the most part, when you get an H/R story, it's about H&R and their romance. It's not that they don't see Harry, it's that the author really likes R&H and is focusing the story on them. They *are the story. In the books, the focus will be on Harry as always, and the story is Harry's. Even if Ron and Hermione are holding hands or hugging or whatever, it won't be the focus of the story, scene, etc. YMMV. : ) Rina (Does this mean I can say I wrote some big essay on why my 'ship is so important, and get my obsession rating up a little? ) ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 22:44:17 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (ffionmiles at hotmail.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:44:17 -0000 Subject: Is Harry the heir to Gryffindor? Message-ID: <94qa81+ssje@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10693 Hi! I noticed when I first read the first book that Harry was living in Godric's Holow when James & Lily got murdered - and JKR pointed out in a reent itnerview that this was significant. And, since Harry is destined to be something special [dumbledore hinted as much at the end of the Philosopher's Stone when he wouldn't tell Harry why Voldemort wanted to kill him and not LIly] - so is Harry the heir to Godric Gryffindor - like a good version of tom Riddle being the heir to Slytherin? If not this, then what would Dumbledore nt tell Harry until he's old enough to cope with it? Ffion From ffionmiles at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 22:49:29 2001 From: ffionmiles at hotmail.com (Ffion Miles) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:49:29 -0000 Subject: Mirror of Erised Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10694 Hi! To go right back to Book 1 - does anyone know what the inscription around the mirror actually means? I've figure out that Erised is desire backwards, but then I've come to a brickwall - I checked out the possibility of it being Latin,b ut I couldn't find any meaning in a Latin dictionary - but I'm sure I read somewhere that JK said there is a meaning to it - but it was for the readers to go and do some investiagative work and work it out for themselvs! Has anyone among us "Grownup" Potterists figured it out? Ffion _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Thu Jan 25 23:21:55 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:21:55 -0000 Subject: the mirror of erised and harry Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10695 Ffion wrote: "To go right back to Book 1 - does anyone know what the inscription around the mirror actually means? I've figure out that Erised is desire backwards, but then I've come to a brickwall" You are on the right track. Erised = desire. The rest of the inscription is written in a similar manner. The job is to work out how to break up the text. You end up with something like (I cannot be bothered to get the book out to check the total accuracy of this): I show not your face but your hearts desire. Ffion wrote: "I noticed when I first read the first book that Harry was living in Godric's Holow when James & Lily got murdered - and JKR pointed out in a reent itnerview that this was significant. And, since Harry is destined to be something special [dumbledore hinted as much at the end of the Philosopher's Stone when he wouldn't tell Harry why Voldemort wanted to kill him and not LIly] - so is Harry the heir to Godric Gryffindor - like a good version of tom Riddle being the heir to Slytherin? If not this, then what would Dumbledore nt tell Harry until he's old enough to cope with it?" Interestingly the quote is something along the lines of: "When you are old enough you will know." It does not say: "Well, er... um..., when you get a bit older, say 15 no er... make that 16, then I will tell you." The quote almost, to my mind, is suggesting Harry will not need to be told but instead that he will work it out himself or just one day wake up with the answer. Simon -- IDENTITY - See Yourself in a New Light "The greatest miricale is not that man stood on the moon; it is that God came and stood in the Earth." - Col. James Irwin From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 23:29:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:29:13 -0000 Subject: prop on sale at ebay-SOLD In-Reply-To: <55.104abd03.27a0fbe3@aol.com> Message-ID: <94qcs9+b1du@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10696 So, is the lucky/crazy purchaser here on HPforGU? Amy Z who wanted the "spaghetti ball" logo from MST3K when it was on ebay but didn't have a few extra thousand $$ lying around From voicelady at mymailstation.com Thu Jan 25 22:36:47 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:36:47 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mirror of Erised Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10697 Hello - The entire message is mirrored - or backward, if you will. It says: "I show not your face but your heart's desire." -------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! To go right back to Book 1 - does anyone know what the inscription around the mirror actually means? I've figure out that Erised is desire backwards, but then I've come to a brickwall - I checked out the possibility of it being Latin,b ut I couldn't find any meaning in a Latin dictionary - but I'm sure I read somewhere that JK said there is a meaning to it - but it was for the readers to go and do some investiagative work and work it out for themselvs! From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 23:41:11 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:41:11 -0000 Subject: Mirror of Erised In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94qdin+t1sl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10698 > Has anyone among us "Grownup" Potterists figured it out? > > Ffion Hint: Read the whole inscription backwards. Ignore word breaks. Amy Z From aiz24 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 25 23:39:02 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:39:02 -0000 Subject: I'm new...I've got burning questions In-Reply-To: <94lb0e+9o6e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qdem+g51b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10699 Welcome home! > 1. In the GOF how could Voldemort cast spells from his chair in the > Riddle house if his arms were too weak to hold a wand? Hmmm...they were ALMOST too weak to hold a wand? I figure at this point he is like a barely-formed baby and probably Wormtail has to actually put his wand into/onto his hand for him to cast spells. > 2. Does anyone think that there is a couple time lines going on > here? Harry, Ron, Hermoine, & Neville vs. James, Lily, Sirius,& > Pettigrew? Not sure what you mean--yes in the sense that we know several characters from the V's-time-of-power generation (those latter 4 plus Lupin & Snape) but not much else, yet, about that time. There are a lot of fanfics set in that time, otherwise known as the Marauders' or MWPP (Moony Wormtail Padfoot Prongs) era. Plus, as you'll learn, many passionate fans of those characters, particularly a certain godfather of the canine variety, on this list. The latest chapter and character summaries (we go through one chapter of Goblet of Fire, plus a character discussion, each week) are heavy on this generation because it's chapter 27 (Padfoot Returns) and the character under discussion is Pettigrew. > 3. How come some wizards can conjure up platters of food, while poor > old Mrs. Weasley has to cook with her wand? Ah, the burning Wizard Economics question. My theory: cooking is a mixture of muggle-type work and conjuring. (Cream sauce does come pouring out of her wand, after all.) An optional or additional possibility: you can only conjure what you've got "in the bank," so to speak. Dumbledore can conjure up anything that Hogwarts' riches can afford; Mrs. W can conjure up only what the Weasleys can afford. ??? Anyone else want to field this one? This is one of those questions I don't want to spend too much brain energy on--there are more important questions plaguing humanity, such as whether Crookshanks has powers beyond your average magical cat. Amy Z From moongirlk at yahoo.com Thu Jan 25 23:58:37 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:58:37 -0000 Subject: Loss of power theory (was Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94p2jc+vljr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qejd+sce0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10700 I said: > > Really digging this thread - thanks for the debate, Keith! > > Kimberly > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Keith Fraser" wrote: > It's made me feel like a bit of an idiot for having a super-Harry in > my fanfic when there are so many sound arguments against that theory, > but you're welcome. I now subscribe to the Lord-of-the-rings-style- > little-people-defeat-overconfident-Dark-Lord school of thought: JKR > will quite likely make Harry's victory a triumph of courage and > ingenuity (and probably luck) over evil. > Keith, I didn't realize you had a fanfic really (I'm ficless until after book 7) - I didn't mean to bum you out or anything! I do think there are still holes in my theory - there's definitely room for the possibility of a SuperHarry, it's just I didn't like the idea myself, so I set out to find an explanation that suited me. I have really enjoyed debating it, as it's given me a chance to flesh out my thoughts. Hopefully someone will find some more holes to poke in it, or we can find another one to toss around. I would be thrilled if it ended up being even remotely right, but I know there are still plenty of things that aren't explained. Happy Thursday! kimberly From keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 26 00:42:33 2001 From: keith.fraser at st-annes.ox.ac.uk (Keith Fraser) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:42:33 -0000 Subject: Harry's abilities In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94qh5p+ed59@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10701 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > There's something about HARRY specifically. Voldemort had a reason to kill > him, even though he was a helpless one-year-old child. > A passage from PS/SS, last chapter, when Harry wakes up in the infirmary and > talks to Dumbledore: > > "Well... Voldemort said that he only killed my mother because she tried to > stop him from killing me. But why would he want to kill me in the first > place?' > > Dumbledore sighed very deeply this time. > > 'Alas, the first thing you ask me, I cannot tell you. Not today. Not now. > You will know, one day... put it from your mind for now, Harry. When you are > older... I know you hate to hear this... when you are ready, you will know." > > SML Thank you! Great screaming pajandorums, I'd totally forgotten that quote! This does support the super-Harry theory to a fair extent, though it could also support the self-fulfilling Trelawney prophecy theory as well. Keith From drmm at fuuko.com Fri Jan 26 00:29:05 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:29:05 -0600 Subject: Snape commentary (was: Re: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010125182304.00aa1c90@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10702 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Becky Penar" wrote: > Also, I've been thinking a lot about the "Lily didn't have to die" > statement, and I'm really beginning to subscribe to the theory that V > was trying to get Lily to his side and she refused. Perhaps V knew > that James would never go to him and assumed Harry wouldn't either, V > wanted to test Lily, so he decides to kill James & Harry, hence, Lily > didn't 'have' to die since she could have just gone with V and not > tried to protect Harry. I think it's time to digress into my favorite 'ship (which is followed by R/H) Snape/Lily, and mention my theory about how Voldemort promised Snape he wouldn't kill Lily as a 'reward for loyal service' since he knew Snape loved her. And since Snape knew she'd die trying to protect her family, he (who I don't think was ever truly loyal to the Death Eaters) chose to go to Dumbledore, in order to save her. This could explain half of his irrational actions in PoA. After all, he did believe Sirius betrayed James & Lily, and I'd be pretty irrational if someone betrayed someone I loved.... DrMM (noting that *some* people don't have to dye their hair to look like a Weasley because DNA already did that) *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Card Captor Sakura From drmm at fuuko.com Fri Jan 26 00:54:38 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (DrMM) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:54:38 -0600 Subject: Defensiveness Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010125183051.00a95410@mail.fuuko.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10703 Penny wrote: < I also believe that Harry and Hermione are more well-suited to be romantically involved, but that goes more to my perception about relationships in general (I can't imagine a marriage where the spouses fight & bicker all the time). That doesn't mean I think Ron doesn't "deserve" Hermione. I just think they are incompatible over the long-haul and that Harry & Hermione's strengths and weaknesses complement each other nicely. Like Cassie, I do admit that Ron is my least favorite of the 3 main characters. I don't relate well to him, and like Ebony, I started out liking him quite a bit but grew to have more & more doubts about him as the series progressed. Perhaps Book 5 will put those doubts to rest though. In any case though, *my* thought has never been that Ron is a "lesser" person who doesn't "deserve" Hermione. I don't necessarily think that's been the position of any other H/H'er, but it's definitely not mine.>> I suspect half the reason why I don't care for the H/H ship as much as I do is because I honestly felt the implication that Ron was, in some way, shape or form, unworthy of Hermione. It may have been unintentional, but I still got that implication (although not as much from you as others). And as I've never understood the problems that people have with Ron, when he's a Perfectly Normal Boy (and IMO the most realistic of the three), I found that rather annoying. Plus, I still think Ron and Hermione are better suited. I really *should* write a comparison between Ron & Arthur and Hermione & Mrs. Weasley someday, because I see so many parallels between them, it's amazing. DrMM (signing up for the position of ship's doctor on the R/H Cruise) *~*~*~*~*~* DrMM is found at drmm at fuuko.com http://www.fuuko.com ICQ: #9689360 Most recent anime: Card Captor Sakura From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 26 00:53:47 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:53:47 -0000 Subject: (OT) From the teacher's desk...4th grade troubles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94qhqr+s9mp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10704 > Penny wrote: > > Lucky you. I still remember bitterly contesting the loss of a 4th grade spelling bee because I spelled it "honour" instead of "honor." I insisted that both spellings were correct, but I lost the argument. Obviously, I was bitter about it since I can still remember it to this day. I guess it's because I wasn't outwardly Hermione enough. > >John wrote: > I'm still bitter about my fourth-grade teacher (yes, I was still in the US education system then) taking a point off because I used "got" as a past tense instead of "gotten". I can remember being made to look through Webster's Collegiate dictionary ::spits on the ground:: until I found it, as well. It was in a Wordly Wise test...does anyone else remember those? They were great, I always got over 100% because they gave us bonus questions. I AM the male Hermione. Goodbye. > > --John Bizarre. I remember in 4th grade some exercise (don't remember the point of it,) in which we were writing sentences. I wrote: "Lisa had gotten a bicycle for Christmas." Mr. Minar made me find 'get' in the dictionary being used this way. I did find it, and he said "Okay, then." No big arguments, don't know why I remember this; I do remember thinking my sentence sounded fine and couldn't figure out what he was objecting to. I was only eight, or maybe nine, at the time, of course... Kelley From bkdelong at pobox.com Fri Jan 26 01:12:28 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:12:28 -0500 Subject: International Toy Fair (was Merchandise) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010125124255.009ef010@earthlink.net> References: <3A706D19.74D1B91F@texas.net> <94ofdu+l6hk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010125200607.055ae8f0@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10705 At 12:43 PM 01/25/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Do you know if they have them on their websites???? >I'm highly interested in this! I just posted updates from Gund, Enesco, Mattel and Department 56 regarding their NEW Harry Potter products. Lots coming out - the International Toy Fair is in New York in 3 weeks and that's where I've been told companies like Tiger Games (electronic handheld games), Wizards of the Coast (trading card game), Bachmann Trains (Hogwarts Express and scale model Platform 9 3/4) will be showing glimpses of what they've got. I hope to have more pictures and details soon: http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org -- B.K. DeLong Contributor The Leaky Cauldron an (unofficial) Harry Potter news site +1.617.877.3271 bkdelong at the-leaky-cauldron.org http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org From bkdelong at pobox.com Fri Jan 26 01:15:12 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:15:12 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <48.109be0ba.27a1f268@aol.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010125201258.05c2a780@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10706 At 04:19 PM 01/25/2001 -0500, you wrote: >The Warner Bros. Studio Store web site no longer exists. AOL Time Warner is downsizing their physical studio stores and also took their online Studio Store offline. Rumor has it that it will be merged into an AOL shopping area of some sort. See my detailed rant about it here: http://www.metafilter.com/comments.mefi/5473#44461 -- B.K. DeLong Contributor The Leaky Cauldron an (unofficial) Harry Potter news site +1.617.877.3271 bkdelong at the-leaky-cauldron.org http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 01:25:16 2001 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (Minnesota Girlie) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:25:16 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: <20010125214734.50795.qmail@web11705.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94qjls+f6t4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10707 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Ginny Love wrote: > Er-I just fell off the SS > H/H and have swam over to the R/H ship. What can I > say? So here I am, captian, one of the few, one of the > proud. It just makes sense. > Ginny Love < flops onto the deck of the Good Ship R/H, soaking wet > Er... hi! Was just floating around in the HP waters, looking for a ship like this... I'm glad I'm not the only R/H shipper around (yes yes, I've read PoU, DD/DS, ASA, all of those... they're very good, I just don't agree with them). < salutes > Hmm. "One of the few, one of the proud." It should be our motto. What say you, fellow R/H shippers? Minnesota Girlie From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 01:26:16 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:26:16 -0000 Subject: Hogwarts population In-Reply-To: <94o4mk+vj35@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qjno+oc3i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10708 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > In other words, 6,000 if there are three hundred students. We're not > far apart. (Me 5,000 or less). Neither of us have adjusted for > muggle-borns like Hermione; we can't without knowing how many. So the > wizard population would be even lower. > Ummm... I'm wondering - did you take into account wizard longevity? If wizards normal span of life is about 200 years (seeing that Dumbledore is 150 and considered old but is still very vigorous), then the ratio wizard adults:children will be much higher than in muggle populations (but I'm too lazy to try and do the precise calculations). Naama From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 26 01:34:35 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:34:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise References: <94ofdu+l6hk@eGroups.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010125124255.009ef010@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3A70D42A.C111ECDD@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10709 Erin Dorman wrote: > Do you know if they have them on their websites???? > I'm highly interested in this! I've no idea, we have a local WB store. They're only about $6, I can pick one up for you if you can't find it anywhere else. --Amanda From moongirlk at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 01:43:00 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:43:00 -0000 Subject: Magical notions of prejudice (was Chapter 27 Padfoot Returns) In-Reply-To: <3A70735D.8D6073CE@texas.net> Message-ID: <94qkn4+dinv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10710 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > Remember Hagrid's background is genetic, and Lupin's problem is a > disease. Contagious. Nasty. Incurable. Kind of like if you just found out > your close friend had AIDS. It would wack you out a bit, even if you > weren't in quite a bit of physical pain and simultaneously trying to > assimilate a very, very bizarre situation. > AIDS might not be a very good comparison even, because AIDS victims don't *also* have the periodic uncontollable, insane urge to either tear people to shreds or pass on their disease, the way a werewolf would (were he not taking the nifty potion, anyway). So if someone you believe to be a maniacal killer has just attacked you and dragged you off to a remote place, breaking your leg in the process, and appears to be threatening to kill your best friend, and a person you thought you could trust comes along and appears to be allied with said person, and *then* you also find out that this person you trusted is what you've always been told is a dangerous monster... It's not at all like saying 'get away from me, (insert racial slur)'. It's more like saying 'get away from me, boogeyman', or 'get away from me, serial killer' or something. Maybe not nice, knowing what we know, but certainly understandable from his perspective. I wouldn't count this one in the bigotry column. kimberly From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Jan 26 01:41:43 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:41:43 -0500 Subject: more merchandise! References: <94qejd+sce0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A70D5D7.EC5DC4E4@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10711 Sylvan Lane has pix of a bunch of the new products which are coming out this spring - all I can say is, I *really really need* a Golden Snitch Lamp for my desk at work (and one for my son harry's room as well) - the pix are at http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter_2.htm From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Jan 26 01:48:59 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:48:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hog's Head/Three Broomsticks (was: Today's HP Page-A-Day Calender page) References: <94q5a4+vr5c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A70D78B.9DDF07F3@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10712 Amy wrote: > > Mike Schubert wrote: > > > > Now, the answer it gives is "Hog's Head". But didn't he get it at > the > > > Three Broomsticks, in Hogsmeade? I just checked SS and all I could > > > find was something along the lines of "I was in the town at the > pub." > > > What the heck? Is it a mistake on the Page-A-Day people's part, or > > > mine? > > I hate to type these words, but the WB cronies are correct. > Somewhere in SS it says the Hog's Head. I think it's at the end, > right after exams when Harry jumps up and goes to ask him about the > stranger he spoke to in the pub--during the conversation where they > learn he's been telling total strangers how to get past Fluffy. I'm > at work (you can tell from the vast amount of non-HP stuff I'm > getting done, can't you?) so I can't check the reference. I checked. Here's what Hagrid says: "It's not that unusual, yeh get a lot o' funny folk in the Hog's Head -- that's the pub down in the village. Mighta bin a dragon dealer, mightn' he? I never saw his face, he kept his hood up." From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 01:55:23 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:55:23 -0000 Subject: R/H-er speaks (was The Ship Hits the Fan) In-Reply-To: <00ee01c0871e$fa8a2520$34fbb5ac@shelley> Message-ID: <94qleb+drtg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10713 Hi, Rina and all HP4GUers across the globe-- My Hotmail account is acting extremely strange these days... I hear that all of Microsoft's sites were spazzing out yesterday. (Spare me the jokes about Bill Gates being a Very Bad Wizard. I happen to have no problem with him.) I do have some posts on the way on this thread... I'm really interested in the one about "Shipping and Theory Positions", so I hope that starts some discussion. I just wanted to thank Rina for her insightful post! Of course I see things differently, but I think this is one of the best shipping posts I've read in ages. You've explained your R/H ship philosophy perfectly. I really hope this inspires more R/H sailors to post their views. Penny, this would make a great addition to the FAQ on the ship phenomenon. We've asked for more R/H material. Now we've got it. Trust an Anne fan for that. (I know... I know! ) I loved the specific theoretical points you made... I loved the LMM refs because she is by far my favorite "children's" author (I really do think Trina, Maria (from the PoU list), and I are the only Maud fanatics and firm H/H shippers I've ever come across)... and I love what you've brought to this debate. Interested in joining Kindred Spirits, Rina? Drop me a line off list. :-) --Ebony AKA AngieJ (who wants another brownie point from her no- shipping friend and self-appointed yet capable maritime games referee Aberforth's Goat) From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:06:56 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:06:56 -0000 Subject: Hermione the housewife? In-Reply-To: <94b0gm+tl6r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qm40+5ik8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10714 Ebony wrote: > When I first joined the list, I made the observation that witches may > have to make a choice that modern women do not. I'm wondering if in > this fictional society, women are either homemakers *or* career > professionals. That seems to be the pattern. > > Of course, we know comparatively little about the girls and women in > the canon... but to a feminist, this silence speaks volumes. The > very fact that these unknown quantities exist is indicative of an > unequal balance in the wizarding world. This is not a question of > PoV--even selectively seeing Harry could not fail to notice details > that we could easily interpret as indications of female empowerment. > Coed sports are the only thing I can think of. Can anyone think of > others? Mmmm... Its true that most of the politically powerful persons are male (Fudge, Crouch, Bagman, Dumbledore; Voldemort, Malfoy, and, IIRC, all the death eaters that come to Voldemort at the end of GoF). Besides Bertha Jorkins, is any other woman mentioned as working for the MoM? In Hogwarts, though, the M/F teachers ratio is pretty even, I think. Although, come to think of it, only McGonagall is the only female teacher that has a strong and positive presence. And, even among the ghosts the male ghosts have more ballast - Moaning Myrtle is the only well-developed female ghost and she definitely doesn't command respect. Oh dear, I started writing this as a rebuttal but I see I have to agree with you, Ebony. It seems that the wizard world is very similar to muggle world in this respect. > > If this fork exists, with paths alternately leading to "home" > and "career", which road might Hermione choose? > It seems to me that for witches this dilema should be much simpler than for us poor muggle women. Thats bc they live so much longer than we do (unless untimely and evily murdered, of course). To devote "mere" 10-15 years of their life to child rearing (if so they choose and assuming that wizards procreation patterns are similar to current middle class muggle ones - few children at relatively short intervals) should hardly harm at all their career - they would still have something like 150 (!) years for that. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:21:50 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:21:50 -0000 Subject: To fanfic or not to fanfic In-Reply-To: <3A688F26.B3B754B1@texas.net> Message-ID: <94qmvu+6v4r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10715 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > yael-pou wrote: > > > I'm sorry. I did misunderstand your reason. You are truly obsessed, and have my appreciation for it. :) > > Interesting. Those who read fanfic nonstop are obsessed because they can't get enough. Those who avoid fanfic to "save themselves for books 5-7" are obsessed because they're purists. This means something. > Precisely - it is conventional wisdom that a fanatic would sooner convert to the opposite extreme than become moderate. The obsession is revealed by the intensity of adherence to either (extreme) position. BTW, I'm pretty much a purist myself, but I did read PoU. I was so curious I just had to. But, although it is indeed very good, I didn't like the effect it had on me. It was invidiously "contaminating" (in sense of Mary Douglas's definition of dirt as "matter out of place") my original vision of HP world. Naama Naama From mystril at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 02:22:51 2001 From: mystril at yahoo.com (mystril at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:22:51 -0000 Subject: more merchandise! In-Reply-To: <3A70D5D7.EC5DC4E4@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <94qn1r+sleb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10716 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > Sylvan Lane has pix of a bunch of the new products which are coming out > this spring - all I can say is, I *really really need* a Golden Snitch > Lamp for my desk at work (and one for my son harry's room as well) - the > pix are at > http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter_2.htm I've seen the Golden Snitch lamp at a Hallmark store. It took all my willpower to keep from buying it. And, you know, I have to go back there soon for Valentines...will I be able to resist the temptation of the Snitch again? Hmm..I don't know, but its as cool in person (in lampishness?) as it is in the picture. Probably cooler. ~mystril, the lurking R/H shipper From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:20:13 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:20:13 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: <94qjls+f6t4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qmst+4id7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10717 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Minnesota Girlie" wrote: > Hmm. "One of the few, one of the proud." It should be our motto. What say you, fellow R/H shippers? > Welcome to the list to both you and Ginny! Glad to see more sailors hopping onto the Shipping seas... no matter what their ship. BTW, my theory is that the R/Hers outnumber the H/H shippers in any survey of older teenage and adult fans by a significant margin. (I'll check the poll to see if I'm right.) Looking into Trelawney's crystal ball, I predict a widely popular R/H serial *subplot* fic (meaning that the ship is *not* a major part of the plot) by a previously unknown R/H shipper will make waves in the fandom before Book 5 finally emerges. Truth be told, this is something I've been searching for since I first found grown-up fans! My money's on Rina. :-) Fellow H/Hers, I do hope your quills never run dry! Otherwise... --Ebony AKA AngieJ (trying her very best to be diplomatic and actively trying to win the Shipper Pax award... on second thought, just kidding) From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:25:47 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:25:47 -0000 Subject: (careering OT) copyright In-Reply-To: <3A67CC7E.10EDAE78@texas.net> Message-ID: <94qn7b+as8k@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10718 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Dai Evans wrote: > > > On a question of copyright morals, I wonder how many people on the > > list can honestly say that 100% (or even 25%) of the software on > > their computers is 100% legal. > > Well, I paid for all mine. Including my two wordprocessing packages and > PageMaker, which weren't cheap. Including the games (except the Blue's > Clues freebies from their webpage). > > > Perhaps people should think about that before > > they condemn fiction copyright infringers. > > I did. I have refused offers of illegal software copies before, and will > again, for the same reasons. The immorality of theft remains, regardless > of the scope or size of the stealee. One of my favorite old jokes has a > similar punch: > > Man to woman in bar, "Will you sleep with me for a million dollars?" > Woman, "Yes." > Man, "Will you sleep with me for twenty dollars?" > Woman (outraged), "What kind of a woman do you think I am?" > Man, "We've established that, we're haggling about price." I've heard that one told of Bernard Shaw. Naama > > --Amanda From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:33:38 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:33:38 -0000 Subject: Ship Poll Results Thus Far... Message-ID: <94qnm2+c540@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10719 Quick note: The poll shows that between the main two ships, R/H is winning. 23 votes to H/H's 18. I've always said we were in the minority. God, I love being right. :-) --Ebony AKA AngieJ (who is thrilled to see that the SS F/A got so many votes... hey, Sarah, it seems as if you and I aren't the only ones on that vessel! ) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 02:34:55 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:34:55 -0000 Subject: the mirror of erised and harry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94qnof+div6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10720 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: e. > > > Ffion wrote: > If not this, then what would Dumbledore nt tell Harry until he's old enough > to cope with it?" > > Interestingly the quote is something along the lines of: "When you are old > enough you will know." > Am I remembering wrong? I thought it was when you are *ready*, you will know. I don't think it's an age thing, like he was too young to understand it, but that he was (emotionally? mentally?) not at a place where he could really understand or deal with it. Maybe there's other stuff he has to learn before it can be clear to him? But then again, my brain may just be rearranging the words on me and it might be 'old enough' - anyone have the book handy? kimberly From hedwigthecat at aol.com Fri Jan 26 02:47:03 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:47:03 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise Message-ID: <4f.69542e4.27a23f27@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10721 In a message dated 1/25/2001 5:50:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, bkdelong at pobox.com writes: << AOL Time Warner is downsizing their physical studio stores and also took their online Studio Store offline. Rumor has it that it will be merged into an AOL shopping area of some sort. >> The studio stores will all be gone as of the end of the year. AOLTW Business strategy does not call for retail being part of the new business. I believe there were also articles in the NY Times, LA Times, Hollywood Reporter and Variety. Look for Tuesday or Wed dates. That was when the announcement to the employees took place. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:49:11 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama ) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:49:11 -0000 Subject: International Editions FAQ (Hebrew translation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94qoj7+d7eg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10722 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "yael oren" wrote: - others? > > I'm sorry. Can't bring myself to read the Hebrew translation. It's too horrible. Hello Yael, this is your fellow Israeli list member. I have to disagree with you about the Hebrew translation. It so happened, that I read the first two book in Hebrew first, and thought them very good. I haven't done any extensive analysis, its just an impression, but I usually have a pretty good sense of text quality . Of course, after you read the original, translations always jarr, even when they're good. When I read the first sentences of the PoA translation it was like hearing chalk squeaking on the blackboard. But it wasn't bc of the quality of the translation, it was just that I'd read the original before. Naama, who would have loved to sign off with a political joke, but whose frankly petrified about the forthcoming elections... From hedwigthecat at aol.com Fri Jan 26 02:44:05 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:44:05 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] International Toy Fair (was Merchandise) Message-ID: <23.69058e6.27a23e75@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10723 In a message dated 1/25/2001 5:48:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, bkdelong at pobox.com writes: << Lots coming out - the International Toy Fair is in New York in 3 weeks >> That is an understatement..... :) ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:54:31 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle Centeno) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:54:31 -0000 Subject: Obsessiveness quiz In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94qot7+ofvl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10724 Coughcough. Who was it who said if you got over 90% you need a therapist? I scored a healthy 126%! Isabelle --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Stephanie Weasley" wrote: > > >Alas, a measly 24% for me. Oh well, if it had been Star Wars I > >would've scored in the 90s, I'm pretty sure, and I've had nearly 24 > >years to work on *that* obsession...but only 3 weeks for Harry Potter. > > > >marvin > > > I finally took the second quiz, and guess what, still a good ol' 110%...I am > crazily obsessed. Marvin, there are Star Wars Quizes, i got 140% on that > one. But I think that this quiz needs a new question: > > Did your obsession for HP take over a previous obsession? > > Because ever since readin HP, i fell out of my readin star wars on loop and > watching the viedoes 375 times each....(It is scary bc....it is true) > > Stephanie > Who recommends anyone who desperately need something to read until Book 5 to > run out and Buy Something by John Irving, spec. A Prayer for Owen Meany or > The World Acccording to Garp > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 02:49:20 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:49:20 -0000 Subject: More R/H Theories? YES! (was: Defensiveness) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010125183051.00a95410@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <94qojg+oe7a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10725 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, DrMM wrote: > Penny wrote: > I suspect half the reason why I don't care for the H/H ship as much as I do is because I honestly felt the implication that Ron was, in some way, shape or form, unworthy of Hermione. It may have been unintentional, but I still got that implication (although not as much from you as others). And as I've never understood the problems that people have with Ron, when he's a Perfectly Normal Boy (and IMO the most realistic of the three), I found that rather annoying. Thanks for sharing this, Doctor dear. Do you realize that we had absolutely no idea that we were stepping on toes when we implied this? So it was surprising to certain H/Hers when our posts about our ship were... well, let's just say not very well received at all. While that doesn't change my sentiment about Ron, I'll watch how I word my Ron-centered posts in the future. In a way, I find myself agreeing with you. I think the Perfectly Normal Boy will grow up to be the Perfectly Normal Man. :-) Whereas both Harry and Hermione are atypical in some ways, but are still regular kids in others. (They come in a wide assortment of varieties.) >Plus, I still think Ron and Hermione are better suited. I really *should* write a comparison between Ron & Arthur and Hermione & Mrs. Weasley someday, because I see so many parallels between them, it's amazing. > I would love to read this! Make "someday" a "someday soon", Doc! As I'm constructing my own H/H *and* R/H theories at the present, I'm devouring everything I can get my hands on. >--DrMM (signing up for the position of ship's doctor on the R/H Cruise) *Goat*! Again, I deserve some brownie points for not commenting... I was going to make a wisecrack about medicine and disorders, but I bit it back, my friend, I bit it back! Perhaps there's a cure for virulent H/H Syndrome after all. Just one problem... I don't want to be cured. Best, Ebony AKA AngieJ From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 26 02:56:32 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:56:32 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: more merchandise! References: <94qejd+sce0@eGroups.com> <3A70D5D7.EC5DC4E4@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A70E760.D2D302BA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10726 heidi wrote: > Sylvan Lane has pix of a bunch of the new products which are coming out > this spring - all I can say is, I *really really need* a Golden Snitch > Lamp for my desk at work (and one for my son harry's room as well) - the > pix are at > http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter_2.htm Is the Trivia Game on this site the same one that we can get in various stores? Because it's $39.99 on the site, and $23.99 at my local HEB (grocery store). *Then* postage. Yeesh. Aberforth, be glad you're a goat, they're fleecing the rest of us! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 26 03:00:23 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:00:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: more merchandise! References: <94qejd+sce0@eGroups.com> <3A70D5D7.EC5DC4E4@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <3A70E847.AF614128@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10727 heidi wrote: > Sylvan Lane has pix of a bunch of the new products which are coming out > this spring - all I can say is, I *really really need* a Golden Snitch > Lamp for my desk at work (and one for my son harry's room as well) - the > pix are at > http://www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com/harry_potter_2.htm I found another one. What I call the Quidditch mobile, and they call the "Harry Potter Hanging Room Decoration" goes for $29.95 on the site, and I know (because my husband left the tag on) that mine, a Christmas present, cost him $18.95 at the Hallmark store. Ye gods. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 26 03:09:35 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:09:35 -0600 Subject: Heidi's list Message-ID: <3A70EA6F.A9FE73FE@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10728 Hey, Heidi, saw your list of HP stuff on Amazon.com! Good taste, I must say. --Amanda From morine10 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 03:10:29 2001 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:10:29 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Defensiveness Message-ID: <92.f7cf640.27a244a5@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10729 In a message dated 1/25/01 8:31:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, drmm at fuuko.com writes: > I really *should* write a comparison between > Ron & Arthur and Hermione & Mrs. Weasley someday, because I see so many > parallels between them, it's amazing. You should! I absolutely agree with you on the parallels - I mentioned this at another discussion site. > > DrMM (signing up for the position of ship's doctor on the R/H Cruise) > Great. We will need a doctor when we are rescuing all those H/H survivors! < vbg> -Mo "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 26 03:04:17 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:04:17 -0600 Subject: Older vs. Ready References: <94qnof+div6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A70E931.B7902884@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10730 Kimberly wrote: > Am I remembering wrong? I thought it was when you are *ready*, you > will know. I don't think it's an age thing, like he was too young to > understand it, but that he was (emotionally? mentally?) not at a > place where he could really understand or deal with it. Maybe there's > other stuff he has to learn before it can be clear to him? Just to muddy the waters...it's both. Here's the quote (p. 299, American): "Alas, the first thing you ask me, I cannot tell you. Not today. Not now. You will know, one day . . . put it from your mind for now, Harry. When you are older . . . I know you hate to hear this . . . when you are ready, you will know." And Harry knew it would be no good to argue. Didn't help much, did it? Either interpretation works. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 26 03:22:31 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:22:31 -0600 Subject: Looking for Polish books Message-ID: <3A70ED76.B9ADEE65@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10731 Does anyone know a likely place to find the books in Polish? My husband and I went to Poland on our honeymoon, eons ago in the days B.C., and I for no good reason got a set of the Lord of the Rings in Polish. Don't know Polish, can't read it, but why not expand? --Amanda From pbnesbit at msn.com Fri Jan 26 03:26:31 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:26:31 -0000 Subject: the mirror of erised and harry In-Reply-To: <94qnof+div6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qqp7+igsj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10732 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Kimberly " wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Simon" wrote: > e. > > > > > > Ffion wrote: > > If not this, then what would Dumbledore nt tell Harry until he's old > enough > > to cope with it?" > > > > Interestingly the quote is something along the lines of: "When you > are old > > enough you will know." > > > > Am I remembering wrong? I thought it was when you are *ready*, you > will know. I don't think it's an age thing, like he was too young to > understand it, but that he was (emotionally? mentally?) not at a > place where he could really understand or deal with it. Maybe there's > other stuff he has to learn before it can be clear to him? > > But then again, my brain may just be rearranging the words on me and > it might be 'old enough' - anyone have the book handy? > > kimberly The exact quote (p. 299, SS, American paperback edition) reads: "Alas, the first thing you ask me, I cannot tell you. Not today. Not now. You will know one day...put it from your mind for now, Harry. When you are older...I know you hate to hear this...when you are ready you will know." Sounds to me like you're on the right track, Kimberly. Parker From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Jan 26 03:34:57 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:34:57 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Heidi's list References: <3A70EA6F.A9FE73FE@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A70F061.4CC0CD90@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10733 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Hey, Heidi, saw your list of HP stuff on Amazon.com! Good taste, I must > say. Mmm - I've wondered if anyone ever sees that! For those who don't know, you can setup a recommendations list on Amazon.com & mine recommends a lot of HP stuff (and roundly criticizes that stupid schaffer book, and points people over here instead...) From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 03:39:55 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:39:55 -0000 Subject: To fanfic or not to fanfic In-Reply-To: <94qmvu+6v4r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qrib+pc7q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10734 Naama wrote: > BTW, I'm pretty much a purist myself, but I did read PoU. I was so > curious I just had to. But, although it is indeed very good, I didn't like the effect it had on me. It was invidiously "contaminating" (in sense of Mary Douglas's definition of dirt as "matter out of place") my original vision of HP world. Wow, Naama, that's fascinating. When I read it, it was the realization of what I thought post-canon HP could be. I think I told Lori this when I e-mailed her in July... she began writing it before GoF was released... I read it post-GoF and absolutely nothing jarred me. :-) My canon view of the characters just might be tainted... for instance, my gut always said H/H, but I never thought much about Draco's redemption before DD. However, as the next book will not be arriving in 2001, I'm sure others will crumble to the urge for a mudbath, so to speak. Excellent, spa-quality relaxation. :-) --Ebony AKA AngieJ From rina at love-productions.com Fri Jan 26 03:41:46 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:41:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: <004001c08749$ea2db400$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10735 Ebony wrote: <> Ack! LOL I think you severely overestimate my writing skills. But hey, who am I to turn my back on a challenge? I do have a year. And this pesky little plot bunny hopping around my brain... Damn. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pbnesbit at msn.com Fri Jan 26 03:37:26 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 03:37:26 -0000 Subject: R/H-er speaks (was The Ship Hits the Fan) In-Reply-To: <94qleb+drtg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qrdm+oejk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10736 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ebonyink at h... wrote: > Hi, Rina and all HP4GUers across the globe-- > > My Hotmail account is acting extremely strange these days... I hear > that all of Microsoft's sites were spazzing out yesterday. (Spare me > the jokes about Bill Gates being a Very Bad Wizard. I happen to have > no problem with him.) I do have some posts on the way on this > thread... I'm really interested in the one about "Shipping and Theory > Positions", so I hope that starts some discussion. > > I just wanted to thank Rina for her insightful post! Of course I see > things differently, but I think this is one of the best shipping > posts I've read in ages. You've explained your R/H ship philosophy > perfectly. I really hope this inspires more R/H sailors to post > their views. > > Penny, this would make a great addition to the FAQ on the ship > phenomenon. We've asked for more R/H material. Now we've got it. > Trust an Anne fan for that. (I know... I know! ) > > I loved the specific theoretical points you made... I loved the LMM > refs because she is by far my favorite "children's" author (I really > do think Trina, Maria (from the PoU list), and I are the only Maud > fanatics and firm H/H shippers I've ever come across)... and I love > what you've brought to this debate. > > Interested in joining Kindred Spirits, Rina? Drop me a line off > list. :-) > > --Ebony AKA AngieJ (who wants another brownie point from her no- > shipping friend and self-appointed yet capable maritime games referee > Aberforth's Goat) Ebony-- I am an H/H shipper (firm) & an LMM fan too. I can see parellels in both JKR & LMM & I agree with what you said. I've read R/H, H/H, & D/H fanfic & find that if it's done well, if there's a building up of the relationship, I really enjoy it. It's all in the writing, I think... Parker From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 26 04:02:36 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:02:36 -0000 Subject: The Ship Hits the Fan (long, but filled with brilliant insights) In-Reply-To: <200101232222.f0NMMYC16849@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94qsss+tr4o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10737 DISCLAIMER: I can see the merits and plausibility of FITD. Having said that... > Kathy> OK, first of all, WHERE are all the R/H-ers? Here I am, Captain. Sorry, I was cha-chaing on the Lido deck with Gopher. > Kathy> At the moment, the Good Ship R/H feels more like a rowboat, with me paddling furiously to get out of the way of the wake created by the big gaudy SS H/H. Zsenya? Elizabeth? Thena? Little > help, please? :)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Yeoman Kelley, reporting for duty. (Just don't make me be the one who gets killed when we beam down to a new island... Or, if I must be, let me inexplicably return for every new mission. I know, I know, I'm mixing my cheesy tv-show jokes...) > Ebony: > >And Kathy, I'll bet the R/Hers thought they were off the hook due to Penny's carpal tunnel and the upcoming arrival of the littlest Linsenmayer. > >Kathy: > Oh, I know better than to think that H/H-ers will ever be silent. Though the "destroyer" rhetoric is starting to get a little disturbing, I must admit. I know it's all in jest, but tell me, why is it that H/H-ers seem to see themselves as missionaries of some sort? I hope you know I'm not picking on you, Ebony, or anyone in particular for that matter, but it just seems to me that the H/H crowd often manifests an almost manic to convert others. (Almost > like they're trying to convince themselves of the rightness of their position...(;, sorry, couldn't resist throwing that in!).<<<<<< Yes! The R/H-ers are not the heathens; we have seen the light! >Kathy: > But seriously, I have corresponded with several other R/H-ers off- list who have told me they wouldn't participate in the shipper debates on this list because they perceived the H/H-ers here as being, well, let's just say too vehement. > Obviously, I don't really agree, since I get into it with y'all on a regular basis :)... <<<<<<<<<<< I've dabbled a bit, myself, though now I'll start a rigorous training program. 100% No Fear... >Kathy again: >but I can't help but notice that the R/H ranks have gotten quieter > around here, even though the number of R/H-ers (at least according to the poll) hasn't gone down.<<<<<<<<<<<< Personally, I'm just secure in my beliefs. I feel no need to convince anyone of the 'rightness' of R/H. Sadly, H/H-ers won't change due to my beliefs. You just have to let them go on, then when they WANT help, we offer comfort and solace and gentle deprogramming. > Ebony again: > >I can't speak from the R/H perspective at all, but I'm > >sure there will be no terrible cry from the H/H battleship-cum- Carnival Cruise if H/H is disproven (partly because one of our theories-in-progress is "all roads lead to H/H"... but I digress). > > Kathy: > And I don't think there will be a terrible outcry from the Good Ship R/H either. We know where Hermione belongs; it's just a matter of her figuring it out. (: <<<<<<<<<<<<< Precisely. She has yet to realize that she will be a brilliant author married to the Minister of Magic, mother to a number of darling little red-headed moppets... > Ebony yet again (we knew she was loquacious!): > >You know, I never thought I'd agree with an R/Her on so much. Of course, deep down I really think Kathy is an H/H Prodigal, who will eventually tire of R/H Disorder and come on home. :-) > >Kathy: > Not a chance, my friend. It never really did it for me in the first place, and the more you try to convert me, the more I will stick to my guns with Ron-like stubbornness. I am -with- you. Harry's a nice guy, brave and all that, but...eh. Ron has that spark. And, he's funny--Hermione needs a few more laughs in her life. My R/H tendencies are purely selfish: 'Ron and Hermione' just seems like a lot more fun to me. >Kathy: > All that said, I REALLY liked Penny's idea of the various ships as party liners sailing along the HP waters. I have been thinking about the Good Ship R/H: It's large and looks fairly rickety from the outside, but it's held up by magic and is much more sturdy than some might think. It has chess sets throughout and small explosions are considered a matter of course. It also has a large closet full of shoes so Ron can demonstrate his shoe-tying technique (if you don't get it, go read B Bennett's newest fic). Oh, and we never serve Corned Beef on the Good Ship R/H.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Not to mention the ghost up in the crow's nest, and gnomes scampering about underdeck... > So, all are welcome to the Good (Rowboat) R/H--we can build on additions and the magic'll hold it up! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Absolutely! There's always room for one more when you're with the Weasleys. (And who doesn't want to party with them?) Yeoman Kelley, pledging her loyalty to her 'ship'... From andeinmn at aol.com Fri Jan 26 04:05:49 2001 From: andeinmn at aol.com (andeinmn at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:05:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10738 In a message dated 1/25/01 7:53:33 PM Central Standard Time, MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com writes: > Er... hi! Was just floating around in the HP waters, looking for a > ship like this... I'm glad I'm not the only R/H shipper around (yes > yes, I've read PoU, DD/DS, ASA, all of those... they're very good, I > just don't agree with them). > > < salutes > > > Hmm. "One of the few, one of the proud." It should be our motto. What > say you, fellow R/H shippers? > > Minnesota Girlie > Count me among the few and the proud. I have nothing personal against the Good Ship H/H, I simply don't see any indication from either of them that they see each other as more than friends. As early as CoS, it's Ron who has to be held back when Hermione is picked on, even before he really notices she's a girl. And all their bickering seems an adolescent way of covering up what is going on below the surface. If I were to guess who might be in Harry's future I would say Ginny Weasley. Harry's overall arc is concerned with the loss of his family. The Weasleys, for all intents and purposes, have been his surrogate family and Ginny will not be a star-struck schoolgirl forever. Jo might surprise me, but I think that may be where she is headed. We'll see. I'd like to see the Weasleys as Harry's actual family someday, and if the Good Ship H/R comes in as we expect, Hermione will make Harry a wonderful sister in law! Dipping her toes in the shipping waters, Andrea From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 04:18:17 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise Roger) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 20:18:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Fwd: [Merger] Yahoo! Groups is Coming (PLEASE it's OT, but you might want to read it!) Message-ID: <20010126041817.16651.qmail@web2106.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10739 The way this sounds is that it's occurring tonight! ****************************** To: egroups-status at egroups.com Organization: Yahoo! From: Brandon Long | Block address Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:23:03 -0800 Reply-to: Merger at egroups.com Subject: [Merger] Yahoo! Groups is Coming Add Addresses When: Jan 25th 7:15pm PST (-0800 GMT) Just a heads up to all of our friends and customers out there, we're starting work on the actual transition from eGroups to Yahoo! Groups. Hopefully, this transition will be a smooth one, with a minimum of down time. Current engineering estimate for down time is in the 15 minute range around 9pm (PST), but you know what they say about engineering estimates... For more information, and up-to-date news regarding this transition, keep your eyes peeled at this page: Before the site changes over: http://beta.groups.yahoo.com/local/news.html After the site changes over: http://groups.yahoo.com/local/news.html For help on the Yahoo! Groups site: http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups In particular: - How do I use the Conversion Wizard? http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-37.html - What does it mean to convert my account: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/groups-34.html If you haven't yet, you can check out what the site will be at http://beta.groups.yahoo.com/ Onward! Brandon -- Yahoo! Groups Engineering Onward! (tm) is Trademarked by eGroups Founder RMR and is used with permission. To unsubscribe: Merger-unsubscribe at egroups.com Merger Help Center: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/info ===== :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Fri Jan 26 04:18:37 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:18:37 -0000 Subject: Hog's Head/Three Broomsticks In-Reply-To: <94q5a4+vr5c@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qtqt+fjau@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10740 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Amy " wrote: > > Mike Schubert wrote: > > > > Now, the answer it gives is "Hog's Head". But didn't he get it at > the > > > Three Broomsticks, in Hogsmeade? Now I realize that this falls under the Shameless Plug category, but there IS a very nice page in the Harry Potter Lexicon all about Hogsmeade that includes mention of both pubs and gives references. You could always have checked there... Steve "Anything to Up Those Hit Counts" Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which has a pretty nice Diagon/Knockturn Alley section too http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From rina at love-productions.com Fri Jan 26 04:18:53 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:18:53 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: <005001c0874f$18126a00$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10741 Andrea wrote: <> Also, isn't Ginny the only other one who has seen Voldemort and lived to tell the tale? Besides Dumbledore, of course, but I think none of us are going there. LOL I think that that connection alone, once the war really starts, is something to bring them together, even if just temporarily. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 26 04:23:07 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:23:07 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qu3b+iehr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10742 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, drmm at f... wrote: > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > character would you be," quizzes. > > # 1 Severus Snape > # 2 Draco Malfoy > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Voldemort > # 5 Hermione Granger > > Rather predictably, I turned out to be Snape. Which, considering the fact that I'm sarcastic and can hold *huge* grudges, doesn't terribly surprise me. I'm still figuring out the Voldemort one . . . . I think the author needs a "Are you a one-dimensional sadistic serial killer?" question to weed him out of peoples results. > I've always said I have an odd combination of different characters > traits, which this proves I think :) > > DrMM This was fun. Here's me: 1)Hermione 10)Lockhart 2)Harry 11)Vold 3)Ron 12)Draco 4)Dumble 13)F & G 5)Hagrid 14)McGonagall 6)Charlie 15)Lupin 7)Ginny 16)Sirius 8)Neville 17)Bill 9)Percy 18)Snape Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed Vold would be more like me than Lupin... Kelley From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 04:33:31 2001 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (Minnesota Girlie) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:33:31 -0000 Subject: Burning (no, not a pun) Weasley Questions (kinda long) Message-ID: <94qumr+qi33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10743 (Note: I added the 'non-pun' thing since fire/flaming/burning is usually associated with Weasley... just realized as I typed it. Also, all quotes are the main idea, not the actual, verbatim, in-the-book quote.) MG'S BURNING WEASLEY QUESTIONS: If anyone can help/answer, I'd love it... these are questions I've been wondering about forever... 1. Is Charlie verifiably the younger of the notorious Bill and Charlie? Because, if Bill were the younger of the two eldest Weasleys, a lot more things would make sense in canon, such as: a) Bill's "I haven't seen this place in five years" in GoF. Besides the Triwizard Tournament, I don't recall any real reason to return to Hogwarts after graduation except to become a professor. b) Ginny's "I've been looking forward to coming... since Bill came" in CoS. IF Bill had graduated five years before GoF (by my math, feel free to correct me, please!), that would make Ginny around 8 years old when Bill graduates Hogwarts-- old enough to remember his attending. c) The difference in age of the Weasley kids. By my math... (once again, IF Bill graduated 5 years before GoF) Charlie would be 5 years older than Bill, Bill 4 years older than Percy, and so on. 2. What color(s) is (are) the Weasley's eyes? I've seen, in fandom, just about every imaginable shade... though the favorite for Ron seems to be blue. The only eye color I remember being mentioned is Ginny's... and hers are brown. I'm especially interested in Ron, since authors want his eyes to be blue -- is that anywhere in the canon that I missed? 3 (and final!). In fandom... this is a random question... What's with Fleur/Bill relationships and their not working out? Just like it's assumed that Lucius Malfoy is beyond redemption, it's assumed that in Fleur/Bill relationships (at least, the ones I've read) that Fleur leaves Bill for another... er, trophy, or that Bill gets fed up with her and dumps her. I know that Fleur looks at Bill ... um, oddly, in GoF. If anyone has help for me, thanks! And thanks for reading. Minnesota Girlie P.S. for Ebony: "The Many, the Proud" works too. ;) ______________________________________________________ Favorite HP book: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Favorite Character: Charlie "Dragon-Chaser" Weasley Character I Identify Most With: Hermione "Know-It-All" Granger Ship Preference: R/H, F/A, D/G ______________________________________________________ From kathleen at carr.org Fri Jan 26 04:27:40 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:27:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: The Ship Hits the Fan (long, but filled with brilliant insights) Message-ID: <200101260436.f0Q4alC10318@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10744 >Kathy, I'd like to apply for the position of Recreation Director, >providing Cassandra and AngieJ will occasionally invite me to dinghy >over for afternoon tea. > >B Bennett You're on! You can arrange inter-ship activities too. Shuffleboard, anyone? Kathy AKA Captain Elanor Gamgee tring to imagine magical shuffleboard and failing miserably From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 04:42:17 2001 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (Minnesota Girlie) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:42:17 -0000 Subject: FITD?! (Was Re: The Ship Hits the Fan) In-Reply-To: <94qsss+tr4o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94qv79+481o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10745 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > DISCLAIMER: I can see the merits and plausibility of FITD. Okay... I know FITD stands for "Farmer in the Dell," which seems to be a favorite H/H theory. Can someone point me to the post(s) explaining this theory? Thanks so much. Minnesota Girlie ____________________________________________________ Favorite HP book: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Favorite Character: Charlie "Dragon-Chaser" Weasley Character I Identify Most With: Hermione "Know-It-All" Granger Motto: "Ron/Hermione. The many, the proud." ___________________________________________________ From kathleen at carr.org Fri Jan 26 04:43:04 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:43:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: <200101260452.f0Q4qFC12245@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10746 Ginny Love wrote of the R/H ship: >It just makes sense. Hmm, I think we have a new motto. From kathleen at carr.org Fri Jan 26 04:41:48 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:41:48 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: <200101260450.f0Q4oxC12060@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10747 ===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== > Er-I just fell off the SS >H/H and have swam over to the R/H ship. What can I >say? So here I am, captian, one of the few, one of the >proud. It just makes sense. > Ginny Love Pull that recruit out of the water and get her a uniform! I'd go on, but I'm running low on bad nautical metaphors. (Oh, and you get extra points for a groovy subject line ) This is so cool! This makes, what, 5 of us now? Come on over, everybody's welcome on the Good Ship R/H! Captain Kathy From randujar at wellesley.edu Fri Jan 26 05:00:40 2001 From: randujar at wellesley.edu (Rosa M. Andujar) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:00:40 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: <200101260450.f0Q4oxC12060@ccpl.carr.org> References: <200101260450.f0Q4oxC12060@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10748 HPforGrownups at egroups.com writes: >This is so cool! This makes, what, 5 of us now? Come on over, >everybody's >welcome on the Good Ship R/H! Captain Kathy > I'm glad to hear it, mon capitaine. Permission to come aboard? -Rosa, who'll gladly stay aboard the Good Ship R/H, as she does not know how to swim. From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 26 04:59:07 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 04:59:07 -0000 Subject: Unterseaboot Noship Message-ID: <94r06r+fafb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10749 What with all these cruise ships SS R/H, SS H/H and so on sailing around like so many Carnival discount tours, I decided I didn't like the image of no-shippers floating around in inner tubes waiting to be picked up by one vessel or another. Therefore I declare the existence of the U-boat Noship. Hang on noshippers! You will be picked up; you don't have to submit to brainwashing and forced assimilation just to get out of the water. "We all lurk in a yellow submarine, Yellow submarine, Yellow submarine..." marvin From melssa99 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 05:04:05 2001 From: melssa99 at hotmail.com (Melissa Daily) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:04:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Older vs. Ready Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10750 >Kimberly wrote: > > > Am I remembering wrong? I thought it was when you are *ready*, you > > will know. I don't think it's an age thing, like he was too young to > > understand it, but that he was (emotionally? mentally?) not at a > > place where he could really understand or deal with it. Maybe there's > > other stuff he has to learn before it can be clear to him? > >Just to muddy the waters...it's both. Here's the quote (p. 299, American): > > "Alas, the first thing you ask me, I cannot tell you. Not today. Not >now. You will know, one day . . . put it from your mind for now, Harry. >When you are >older . . . I know you hate to hear this . . . when you are ready, you >will know." > And Harry knew it would be no good to argue. > >Didn't help much, did it? Either interpretation works. > >--Amanda This may seem far fetched, but could Lily have performed the Fidelius Charm with Harry as the secret keeper himself? It could be that Harry won't know how to unlock it until he's older and when he's ready. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 26 05:13:58 2001 From: msl at fc.net (Marvin Long) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:13:58 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's predecessor Message-ID: <94r12m+fbr5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10751 Ok, who wants to theorize on the events surrounding the founding of Hogwarts and the subsequent displacement of Mr. Slytherin himself? It seems fairly clear that pater Slytherin went over to the dark side and, somehow, was defeated by the combined effots of Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, and Ravenclaw. It seems to me that those events must be closely related to the status of dear Harry (uberHarry or just regular Harry). I think we have reason to believe that even if Godric Gryffindor took a lead role in defeating the Slytherin of yore, he didn't do it alone. So even if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, that's no reason to believe that he's fated somehow to single-handedly defeat Voldemort. Based on the structure of the houses at Hogwarts, it seems plausible to me that Voldemort will be defeated by the combined application of the three virtues exemplified by the houses--courage, wisdom, and loyalty- -as was Slytherin, I'm guessing. So here's my theory for now...Voldemort will not be defeated LOtR style; there's no one act that will bring him down. Rather, defeating him will involve isolating him in some way. I'm thinking of the idea that a cancerous tumor can be killed by cutting off its blood supply, starving it instead of trying to kill it directly with chemo or radiation. Without his death eaters as allies, there's not much he can accomplish, so the first goal in fighting him should be to prevent him from gaining allies. Dumbledore has already taken this step by sending emissaries to the giants. Ok, bedtime now. marvin From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 26 05:23:54 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:23:54 -0000 Subject: Hate her(him)! In-Reply-To: <94lbtq+od1u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94r1la+6krh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10752 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Chris " wrote: I thought that I hated the Dursleys for their treatment of HP. I thought that I hated Draco for being such a nasty brat. Until Rita Skeeter came along! Now I dislike the Dursleys and Draco but hate RS! > Christy Hey Christy. I hate RS, too. Before her, I didn't hate ~any~ of the characters. I always have the image of the Dursleys and Draco, plus Lucius, as literary devices, so I don't hate them; they're an important part of the story. Love Snape, mean as he is. And Voldy's the requisite 'bad guy'. But Rita definitely made me boil. I certainly hope we see far less of her in future books. Strangely enough, I also don't care much for Dobby and Winky. Dobby really got on my nerves in CoS, though I did start to warm up to him a bit in GoF. Winky just annoys me. Maybe that will improve with the next books... Kelley From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 05:40:57 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:40:57 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94r2la+fqg4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10753 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Monika Huebner wrote: > On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:50:43 -0500, "Carole Estes" > wrote: > > > >Sirius was at the bottom of my list...which, while he is my favorite > >character, I don't think I am remotely like him. So does this mean I need > >to write some slash fanfic between Bill and Sirius? Hmmmmm > > Don't you dare... *eg* > Gosh,I might make an exception to my no fanfic rule if you were to write some about Bill and Sirius. That's a hot combination. Here are my total results. 1) Remus Lupin 2) Albus Dumbledore 3) Rubeus Hagrid 4) Sirius Black 5) Harry Potter 6) Minvera McGonagall 7) Neville Longbottom 8) Ron Weasley 9) Voldemort 10)Bill Weasley 11)Hermione Granger 12) Charlie Weasley 13) Ginny Weasley 14) Severus Snape 15) Draco Malfoy 16) Fred/George Weasley 17) Percy Weasley 18) Gilderoy Lockhart Phew....Albus Dumbledore is my favorite character, and I like to fantasize about being like him. Hagrid, Black, and Lupin are tied for my next favorite characters. I just love them. And Harry is probably next. What does this mean? I do know that being an old, old, old adult.....that I do identify with the grownup characters. Let's see. I despise and hate Draco and Snape, but I didn't quite realize that pomposity was at the bottom of my list...but then again Gilderoy -- a coward and a fake. Notice that although I'm a radical feminist, McGonagall is 6 and Granger is 11. My theory continues to be that JKR does not do well with female characters. And there's Voldemort right in the middle. Fascinating. I'm ready to be interpreted. Susan P.S. Where's Molly, Arthur, Vernon, Petunia, Aunt Marge, etc. ? From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 05:42:12 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:42:12 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94r2nk+j4um@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10754 > > My results: > > # 1 Minerva McGonagall > # 2 Albus Dumbledore > # 3 Bill Weasley > # 4 Severus Snape > > What should I say? McGonagall and Dumbledore seem to be ok, but SNAPE > so high in this list?! I'm utterly shocked... At the bottom of my list > is Ron, just behind Sirius who came as #15... > > Monika > > I'm going to reply to everyone with the hope that they will reply to me. Maybe it's the teacher connection, Monika........ 1, 2, and 4 are all teachers. Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 05:47:03 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:47:03 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . ./second pass throughs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94r30n+kkdj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10755 Hmmmm..I've taken it three times at different times, and keep getting the same responses. I am predictable. Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 26 05:50:05 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:50:05 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <3A6E4EAE.F54FFB1E@texas.net> Message-ID: <94r36d+ek2s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10756 > Sara Metz wrote: > > BTW, has anyone tried the Hogwarts House Sorter at: > > http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=sortinghat? > > I'm Gryffindor followed by Hufflepuff. It'll be interesting to see if everybody gets into the house they want to get into. > >Amanda wrote: > I'm Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff, Slytherin. I feel an affinity for Ravenclaw, but I'll take Gryffindor, I suppose. Here's how mine ended up: Your Results Page # 1 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual # 2 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian # 3 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring # 4 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal I was put in Raven. in some other House quiz too, so I guess that's my place. I sort of like that Slyth was my second destination... Kelley From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 06:02:39 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:02:39 -0000 Subject: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <00ad01c0870f$ed7e23e0$34fbb5ac@shelley> Message-ID: <94r3tv+ag5e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10757 Sorry! I went ahead and got the metal Snitch at Hallmark and a book mark...after I invaded Warner Brothers and had stop myself after buying the Hogwarts mug/Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Bean set and a long sleeve T-shirt! I saw hacky-sack looking one but it's too big for my purse...maybe later for something else. But that blue plush Hogwarts bathrobe almost did me in...might go back in for that and the Hedgewig doll! (Am eating the beans...no 'surprises' yet! OooOhh the coffee is good...BLECH! No no...just the pina colada...). Maybe I'll get that sticker book...those stickers are the same size as some bumper stickers...hmmm... AARGH! Addiction taking over! I actually went from that mall to the mall on my way home and got a student planner calender at Barnes and Knoble and then walked downstairs to the Hallmark there to check out their stash! (Blech! No no, peanutbutter bean was bad!Wait...was that...naaaah...) Barnes and Knoble had cool bookends and quite a few journals. Sooo many things...I think that Warner Bros. has the best stuff, tho...I go there for all my Scooby needs, too. B I G *munch munch munch* B I G O N O N Christy ======== --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Amanda wrote: > > < hacky-sack (spelling?), stuffed, made of gold lame, with > white-with-iridescent-overtones wings. I've seen the heavy metal one, with > the wings so very likely to break off, and altogether likely to break your > foot if you drop it, and I altogether prefer the stuffed shiny gold one.>> > > This is the one my brother has. I love it!! I keep trying to steal it, but he steals it back. I didn't know there was a metal one. > > Rina > ******************************** > "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from > others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who > doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." > --Gillian Anderson > > "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." > --Eleanor Roosevelt > > Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels > Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 06:08:16 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:08:16 -0000 Subject: please repost house sorting quiz. In-Reply-To: <20010124233612.29955.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <94r48g+e9u8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10758 Please, please From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 06:09:13 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:09:13 -0000 Subject: please repost house sorting quiz. In-Reply-To: <20010124233612.29955.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <94r4a9+m0p9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10759 Please, please From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 06:14:37 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:14:37 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <013701c0859f$aa232c60$27479cac@shelley> Message-ID: <94r4kd+giqa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10760 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Sara wrote: > > < everybody gets into the house they want to get into.>> > > I'm Hufflepuff. I tried again, and after a few times, made it into Ravenclaw. LOL Gryffindor was always 3rd and Slytherin 4th. > > These tests are sure piling on the nerd quotient, huh? LOL > > Rina > back to studying > ******************************** > "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from > others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who > doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." > --Gillian Anderson > > "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." > --Eleanor Roosevelt > > Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels > Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] What's wrong with Hufflepuff? We're not taking Draco MALFOY's opinion here ARE WE? I paused for a few minutes when Cedric Diggory chose not to take the TriWizard prize. He was turning his back on the type of glory that Hufflepuff had not seen in centuries (paraphrasing). What a glorious and honorable decision! I remember sitting back and smiling and saying "perhaps they'll be in Hufflepuff where they are just and loyal" (paraphrasing again). He was then murdered. Long live the Hufflepuffs! Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 06:17:33 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:17:33 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <3A6E35D8.5BFF8FAE@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <94r4pt+ihcu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10761 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, heidi wrote: > Should it disturb me that I am more Voldemort than Harry? > Yes, it should, but I think everyone's decided that they didn't do enough screening for Lord Voldemort... From Schlobin at aol.com Fri Jan 26 06:20:26 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Susan McGee) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:20:26 -0000 Subject: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <3A6E4D3E.6EE1FD97@texas.net> Message-ID: <94r4va+rdok@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10762 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Amanda Lewanski wrote: > drmm at f... wrote: > > > I thought some of you would find the Harry Potter character quiz > > (http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php3?client=hpcharacter) > > selector I found rather interesting. Basically these are "Which > > character would you be," quizzes. > > I posted my whole list, for the amusing fact of who is the last. I guess > opposites attract, eh? > > # 1 Hermione Granger > # 2 Harry Potter > # 3 Ron Weasley > # 4 Bill Weasley > # 5 Charlie Weasley > # 6 Percy Weasley > # 7 Rubeus Hagrid > # 8 Albus Dumbledore > # 9 Remus Lupin > # 10 Fred/George Weasley > # 11 Neville Longbottom > # 12 Minerva McGonagall > # 13 Voldemort > # 14 Draco Malfoy > # 15 Sirius Black > # 16 Severus Snape > > If anyone else takes/has taken this, was there a question at #15? Because > it was blank when I went there. > > --Amanda Amanda, are you the opposite of Voldemort? Malfoy? Black? or Snape? Inquiring minds... Susan From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Fri Jan 26 06:29:13 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:29:13 -0000 Subject: Character Quiz--Question #15 Message-ID: <94r5fp+uv77@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10763 I suspect someone's already cleared this up, but since I'm three hundred posts behind, I'm going to post this anyway, with apologies for duplicating... Question #15 on the quiz is: Are you particularly concerned with appearance, especially your own? Kelley From kathleen at carr.org Fri Jan 26 06:23:18 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:23:18 -0500 Subject: Party on the Good Ship R/H Message-ID: <200101260632.f0Q6WvC28725@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10764 The R/Hers are out in force! I could sing! Welcome aboard one and all! Rina wrote: >Hermione's constantly pestering them both, but even more with Ron. Probably >my Lucy >Maud childhood rearing it's head, but I think it's similar to Ilse and >Perry - all those years it came across like she didn't like him much, but >she was actually just pushing him because she loved him and knew he could do >better than what he was. >There's Hermione's reason for the bickering. I think this is a brilliant insight. Hermione doesn't let Ron get away with laziness or lazy thinking. Like when she calls him on his comments about Percy or about encouraging Harry to sneak into Hogsemead in PoA. She's disappointed at things like that because she expects better from him--and knows he can do better. And that, IMO, is just what Ron needs. Hermione may very well be the one person who *doesn't* think of Ron as somehow less than Harry (and she's probably the one who is best capable of making that judgment too). One day Ron will wake up and realize this. Rina again: >I guess they're just fun. LOL This sounds totally psycho, but I see H/R/H kind of like a triangle - Harry at the tip and Ron and Hermione making the base. R/H kind of connect together, and this supports both Harry and their three way friendship. I like this analogy. And I agree that R/H is just more fun. (I know that's not a well-articulated argument, but it's how I feel!) But then this could be because I'm finding Harry kinds boring lately, as I said earlier... Rina again: > I don't see R&H leaving Harry out if they were in a relationship any >more than they do now. In book four, at least, there are lots of instances >where Harry gets fed up with their snipping and leaves to do his own thing, >and he doesn't seem >to mind or feel especially left out. R&H already spend a lot of time >together, and I don't think that would change. This was my reaction when I read about the "Harry Problem"--what problem? I can see him feeling a little weird initially, but it doesn't ever seem to bother him when Hermione and Ron do their own thing now, and they do spend quite a bit of time together away from him as it is. The only time I can think of that it bothered him was the first Hogsmead trip, and that was only because he couldn't go to the village. Rina yet again: >For the most part, when you get an H/R story, it's about H&R and their >romance. It's not that they don't see >Harry, it's that the author really likes R&H and is focusing the story on >them. They *are the story. In the books, the focus will be on Harry as >always, and the story is Harry's. Even if Ron and Hermione are holding hands >or hugging or whatever, it >won't be the focus of the story, scene, etc. Bingo. I think there's a big difference between showing R/H and shunting Harry aside. Harry's always going to be the hero, can't change that. But you can show a different perspective. I'm still not sold on the notion of "the Harry problem", sorry. >Rina >(Does this mean I can say I wrote some big essay on why my 'ship is so important, and get my obsession rating up a little? ) Oh, absolutely, Rina! That should be worth some good points! Amy Z wrote: >(BTW, Ebony: "the R/Hers would never permit a menage a trois"--say what? I >think Ron/Harry makes [marginally] more sense than H/H. So with an H/H/R >ship I at least agree with 2 out of 3! LOL!) I love this! Actually, I can see Ron/Harry as more plausible than H/H for a lot of reasons, which I won't go into now. Amy Z: >So what's a shipper? Someone who wants to see a particular pair together >(sense A)? Someone who thinks two people *are* a couple in canon or will be >(sense b)? Someone who has a crush on a character and therefore desperately >wishes to see him/her in a romance to flesh out his/her own fantasies (sense >C)? A, B, and C, in my case at least! But I think that you raise a good point. It strikes me that those of us who spend precious hours of our lives going back and forth over the issues probably fall more into the A and C categories. (After all, both major ships have admitted that we will continue to prefer our ships regardless of what JKR writes. But, OTOH, both ships derive their positions from canon, so who knows? Rosa wrote: >I'm glad to hear it, mon capitaine. Permission to come aboard? Come on up! Isaac's serving drinks down in the bar, and Recreation Director B Bennett has some wonderful activities planned for later. Andrea wrote: >If I were to guess who might be in Harry's future I would say Ginny Weasley. >Harry's overall arc is concerned with the loss of his family. The Weasleys, >for all intents and purposes, have been his surrogate family and Ginny will >not be a star-struck schoolgirl forever. Jo might surprise me, but I think >that may be where she is headed. We'll see. I'd like to see the Weasleys as >Harry's actual family someday, and if the Good Ship H/R comes in as we >expect, Hermione will make Harry a wonderful sister in law! >Dipping her toes in the shipping waters, >Andrea Welcome aboard Andrea! I also really like this reasoning. I would really like to see Harry officially become part of the Weasley family (which of course involves Ginny becoming more developed,etc--usual disclaimers apply). Oh, I can just hear Ebony gagging in the background at the mention of One Big Happy Weasley Family! But, whether it's realistic or not, I like the idea. (Hey, now I know how HH-ers feel!) (just kidding! just kidding!) Kelley wrote: >Here I am, Captain. Sorry, I was cha-chaing on the Lido deck with Gopher. My husband is now looking at me strangely because I went into an uncontrollable fit of giggling upon readin this. I think because it inspired visions of the Mad-Eye-Moody-dancing-with-a-male-Professor-Sinistra scenario that was posted here a while back. Anyway, welcome aboard, Yeoman Kelley! Lunch will be served on the Promenade deck in 1 hour. Kelley again: >I've dabbled a bit, myself, though now I'll start a rigorous training >program. 100% No Fear... Maybe we should start a rigorous calisthenics programs to get all our recruits in shape? Top Deck 06:00. Kelley again: >Personally, I'm just secure in my beliefs. I feel no need to convince anyone >of the 'rightness' of R/H. Sadly, H/H-ers won't change due to my beliefs. >You just have to let them go on, then when they WANT help, we offer comfort >and solace and gentle deprogramming. ...more uncontrollable giggling... Kelley: >Not to mention the ghost up in the crow's nest, and gnomes scampering about >underdeck... LOL! I knew someone more creative than I would get this metaphor going! Kelley: >There's always room for one more when you're with the Weasleys. (And who >doesn't want to party with them?) Mmmmmm, Weasleys.....oh, sorry, where was I? ;) DrMM wrote: > DrMM (signing up for the position of ship's doctor on the R/H Cruise) and First Mate Mo responded: >Great. We will need a doctor when we are rescuing all those H/H survivors! < >vbg> Perhaps we should also advertise for a ship's psychologist to help out with all that gentle deprogramming of H/H-ers? DrMM wrote: > I suspect half the reason why I don't care for the H/H ship as much >as I do is because I honestly felt the implication that Ron was, in some >way, shape or form, unworthy of Hermione. It may have been unintentional, >but I still got that implication (although not as much from you (Penny) as others). >And as I've never understood the problems that people have with Ron, when >he's a Perfectly Normal Boy (and IMO the most realistic of the three), I >found that rather annoying. Right on, DrMM! I have felt the same way, and since insulting Ron is the easiest way to anger me, well...there you go. (And by the way, welcome aboard, good doctor! It's great to hear from you!) Ebony wrote: >Thanks for sharing this, Doctor dear. Do you realize that we had absolutely >no idea that we were stepping on toes when we implied this? So it was >surprising to certain H/Hers when our posts about our ship were... well, >let's just say not very well received at all. While that doesn't change my >sentiment about Ron, I'll watch how I word my Ron-centered posts in the >future. See that you do. :) Seriously, I think it all goes back to something Ebony have gone over a bunch of times: R/H-ers and H/H-ers just tend to see the characters differently. As one R/H-er said to me recently, "Sometimes I wonder if they're even reading the same books we are!" But it keeps things lively anyway! DrMM wrote: >Plus, I still think Ron and Hermione are better suited. I really *should* >write a comparison between Ron & Arthur and Hermione & Mrs. Weasley someday, >because I see so many parallels between them, it's amazing. I must chime in with Ebony and say please write this soon, cause I would also love to read your thoughts on this. (See, Ebony, something else we agree on! let's hear it for Intership cooperation!) Minnesota Girlie wrote: >Er... hi! Was just floating around in the HP waters, looking for a ship like >this... I'm glad I'm not the only R/H shipper around (yes yes, I've read >PoU, DD/DS, ASA, all of those... they're very good, I just don't agree with >them). < salutes > Hmm. "One of the few, one of the proud." It should be >our motto. What say you, fellow R/H shippers? Welcome aboard! As for the motto, I'm all for it as long as we can have Ginny Love's "R/H: It just makes more sense." stenciled on the prow. All these new arrivals--this calls for a celebration! Butterbeers all around! Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 06:45:03 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:45:03 -0000 Subject: Hate her(him)! In-Reply-To: <94r1la+6krh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94r6df+ijcq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10765 Aloha Kelley! If RS is ever brought back (I hope not!)I hope that it's with something wickedly creative. Nah...I don't hate Voldy...can't hate a guy that is upfront with his big bad self! :) Kinda reminds me of me when I'm in a mood! Which is kinda surprising to me that he didn't show up near the middle or top of my character quiz! Draco is more annoy than anything else now...I like him a little better since Moody bounced that ferret like a little furry basketball! *grin* I LOVE that scene! I still really dislike those Dursleys. I guess because I like kids, and abuse (of all kinds) has been a special crusade of mine. I really hate to see them (real or not) treat Harry so poorly. Maybe it's ignorance on their part or their part is to teach Harry about the horrors of ignorance and humility in life. It's still something that raises my ire at them. Dobby and Winky? Yeah, Dobby was annoying in CoS, you are right that he was better in GoF. As for Winky, she can't help being subserviant. She is annoyingly pitiful. I do think they would make a cute couple, though! Maybe something about that in the next chapter??? <:o) christy --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Chris " wrote: > I thought that I hated the Dursleys for their treatment of HP. I > thought that I hated Draco for being such a nasty brat. Until Rita > Skeeter came along! Now I dislike the Dursleys and Draco but hate RS! > > Christy > > Hey Christy. I hate RS, too. Before her, I didn't hate ~any~ of the > characters. I always have the image of the Dursleys and Draco, plus > Lucius, as literary devices, so I don't hate them; they're an > important part of the story. Love Snape, mean as he is. And Voldy's > the requisite 'bad guy'. But Rita definitely made me boil. I > certainly hope we see far less of her in future books. Strangely > enough, I also don't care much for Dobby and Winky. Dobby really got > on my nerves in CoS, though I did start to warm up to him a bit in > GoF. Winky just annoys me. Maybe that will improve with the next > books... > > Kelley From nykteris at polbox.com Fri Jan 26 07:10:53 2001 From: nykteris at polbox.com (nykteris) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:10:53 +0100 Subject: If You'd Just Let Me Explain Message-ID: <005a01c08767$1fdafb40$82604cd5@default> No: HPFGUIDX 10766 It's great! Order of Merlin, Second Class, I'd say. First Class, if I can wangle it! K. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 07:19:01 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:19:01 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? Message-ID: <94r8d5+om7n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10767 All right, I've had it. :-) First, I get mildly rebuked for my choice of words... by my captain *and* the cruise director, no less! Then no-shipper Neil draws a *hilarious* analogy to the Titanic and sinks us. (That was funny... every time I remember that thread, I smile!) Now the good ship R/H is throwing a party. I was quiet about it and even grinned a little as I made observations and jotted them down in my little notebook. I really don't mind R/H in small doses. However, the minute I saw the One Big Happy Weasley Family banner flying I *had* to abort that phase of the experiment for the sake of my gastrointestinal well-being. H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: Penny Carole Lori Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag Scott Heather Heidi I do believe there's more of you out there. Here's an incentive: if the other H/Hers weren't so shy and apologetic around these parts, I'd post less! (Knew that would make you come out of the woodwork! ) It's time for me to take a break... I've a science experiment I plan to check on this weekend. We've been at war long enough, my dear H/H friends. How about we throw the party to end all parties? (C'mon--you *know* we're the party crowd!) And while we're at it--why not pour out some of these theories we've been keeping in our wine closets like rare champagne? (Unless we're still aging them properly, of course. If that is the case, we shall wait for a more special occasion.) Best, Ebony (Sidebar: In a post that Hotmail will send to the list one day, I made the observation that I--Ebony AKA AngieJ--the one responsible for the terms "destroyer" and "disorder". No one else on my ship used those terms! That forthcoming post also addresses the mythic notion that R/Hers are by nature more docile than we are... and I hope to create a thread about the correlation between ship theory and canonical interpretation in general. I suspect that we *are* reading different sides of the same Galleon. *Please* look for it.) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 26 06:52:30 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:52:30 -0000 Subject: Origins of the Founders (was: Lily Evans) References: <94q6h9+pnvb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01c901c08764$8de442c0$773770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10768 Dai said: > In which case Godrics Hollow is not necessarily in South Wales as has > previously been supposed by some as Hagrid flew over Bristol on his > way to Surrey. Wherever Harry was taken in the interim was in South > Wales though. > > In GoF the Sorting Hat describes Godric Gryffindor as being > from 'Wild moor.' it is unlikely he came from Wales (we don't have > any moors). Hufflepuff seems to have Wales covered as she came > from 'Valley Broad', somewhat stereotypically Welsh. Ravenclaw is > said to come from 'glen', ie Scotland, and Slytherin from 'fen' ie > the north of England. That leaves the South of England for Gryffindor > to cover, Dartmoor in Devon perhaps? Very good point, Dai. We had pretty much decided that Godric's Hollow was in Wales (and, therefore, that Godric was also from Wales), and dusted our hands, but that didn't take into account the Sorting Hat evidence, from GoF. I agree that 'valley broad' and 'glen' are strongly suggestive of Wales and Scotland, respectively. However, IMO, the other two could easily be the other way round: 'The Fens' is a name given to flatland (originally marshland) areas of eastern England (Lincolnshire, Cambridgeshire et al), while the "wild and windy" Yorkshire Moors are in northern England, and one thinks immediately of two major literary references to those moors: "Wuthering Heights" and "The Hound of The Baskervilles" [why do I suddenly recall James and Lily Potter and then Sirius Black?]. An alternative, less likely theory, is that moor refers to moorish (i.e. Islamic). To me, it makes more sense for Slytherin to have been a Moor and Gryffindor to have originated from the fenlands. Salazaar doesn't sound like an old English name; it sounds exotic enough to be of Islamic origin... But then, 'Helga' isn't a common name in Wales, either, I guess. An alternative, slightly more likely theory, is that 'fens' refers to the Irish fens - i.e. the Irish peatlands (originally boglands - later drained, rather like the English fens). This, of course, fits in nicely with the association of Slytherin with snakes, since legend has it that St Patrick drove all the snakes from Ireland. An alternative, even more likely theory, is that 'moor' rhymes with 'Gryffindor'. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From nykteris at polbox.com Fri Jan 26 07:29:32 2001 From: nykteris at polbox.com (nykteris) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:29:32 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books References: <3A70ED76.B9ADEE65@texas.net> Message-ID: <00d001c08769$d2ba1460$82604cd5@default> No: HPFGUIDX 10769 Hi, Amanda! Well, what a coincidence... ;))) I am from Varsaw. Two HP-books have been translated so far. PoA is going to appear soon. The titles are: Harry Potter i kamien filozoficzny, HP i komnata tajemnic and HP i wiezien Azkabanu. You can buy them here (it costs 25 zl / part = 7$): www.empik.com www.merlin.com.pl www.exlibris.com.pl www.feniks.com.pl Katarzyna ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Lewanski To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:22 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books > Does anyone know a likely place to find the books in Polish? My husband > and I went to Poland on our honeymoon, eons ago in the days B.C., and I > for no good reason got a set of the Lord of the Rings in Polish. Don't > know Polish, can't read it, but why not expand? > > --Amanda > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Jan 26 07:39:06 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (Cassandra Claire) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:39:06 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <94r8d5+om7n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94r9iq+ul0r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10770 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, ebonyink at h... wrote: > All right, I've had it. :-) > > First, I get mildly rebuked for my choice of words... by my captain > *and* the cruise director, no less! > > Then no-shipper Neil draws a *hilarious* analogy to the Titanic and > sinks us. (That was funny... every time I remember that thread, I > smile!) > > Now the good ship R/H is throwing a party. I was quiet about it and > even grinned a little as I made observations and jotted them down in > my little notebook. I really don't mind R/H in small doses. > However, the minute I saw the One Big Happy Weasley Family banner > flying I *had* to abort that phase of the experiment for the sake of > my gastrointestinal well-being. > > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > Penny > Carole > Lori > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > Scott > Heather > Heidi > > I do believe there's more of you out there. -------- > Don't forget Alicia/Sue Spinnet and Sinead. ;) Cassie From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 07:49:05 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:49:05 -0000 Subject: (OT) Parker? As in fanfic-writing Parker? Message-ID: <94ra5h+sr84@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10771 I'm posting this to the list, because I refer to an LMM comment I think Rina made in the ship thread. My Harry Potter obsession is second only to my LMM obsession... after all, her Emily novels are the only other series I write fanfic for! ;-) Parker wrote: >Ebony-- > >I am an H/H shipper (firm) & an LMM fan too. >I can see parallels in both JKR & LMM & I agree with what you said. > That makes four of us, then! I knew I wasn't crazy, even when all my LMM fanatic friends (including my best friend) said "Harry and *Hermione*? Where do you get that from?" LMM wrote Anne and Gilbert's love-hate relationship, *but* she also wrote the Emilies. Perhaps Ron and Hermione are Ilse and Perry... perhaps not. I've read my Emilies until they're dog-eared, and never thought of that comparison at all until Rina brought it up. I always thought of Harry and Hermione as paralleling Teddy and Emily in a vague sort of way... especially since I read GoF shortly after re-reading the Emilies. Anyway, are you the Parker that writes the "hidden scenes" GoF fics? Please, if you are, don't be shy. I spent a great deal of last week plugging you and you're on my favorites page! Your writing is exactly what I hope was really going on "behind the scenes" of GoF. I can't wait to see more. I'd also like to continue this conversation off list... I have some questions that might pertain to my own science experiment of a fic and you just might be the one to help. --Ebony AKA AngieJ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 07:52:16 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:52:16 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <94r9iq+ul0r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94rabg+4mfv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10772 --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Cassandra Claire" wrote: > Don't forget Alicia/Sue Spinnet and Sinead. > > ;) > > Cassie That's right! The siren and the ska princess who moonlights as the Captain of the D/G ship... Add Parker to the list. Told you we were the party crowd. :-) Where are the rest of you? --Ebony AKA AngieJ From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 07:57:54 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:57:54 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: <200101260450.f0Q4oxC12060@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <94ram2+pnvk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10773 *splash* *splash* *splash* Ahoy there! *arm waving in the water* Captain Kathy! Down here! Permission to climb aboard! I have been clinging quietly to the barnacles of the fair ship, RH ever since Ron uttered his first insult to Hermione. But I have not dared to venture further until I knew that I wasn't the only one. Because I have heard the voices of others expressing the only logical conclusion that one can come to, I have been wanting to join but was afraid that I was intruding on a private voyage. Is there room for one more ferverent RH shipster? They belong together. I agree with Ginny getting Harry. After all, the underdog girl should be able to get her crush once in awhile! Christy =================== --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > ===== Original Message From HPforGrownups at egroups.com ===== > > Er-I just fell off the SS > >H/H and have swam over to the R/H ship. What can I > >say? So here I am, captian, one of the few, one of the > >proud. It just makes sense. > > Ginny Love > > > Pull that recruit out of the water and get her a uniform! I'd go on, but I'm > running low on bad nautical metaphors. (Oh, and you get extra points for a > groovy subject line ) > > This is so cool! This makes, what, 5 of us now? Come on over, everybody's > welcome on the Good Ship R/H! > > > Captain Kathy From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 26 07:36:46 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:36:46 -0000 Subject: Amulets and talismans - theories Message-ID: <020801c0876a$d30b7340$773770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10774 I?ve been reading an interesting book on magic in the Middle Ages (oh dear, it's part of the obsession, isn't it?), and it?s thrown up a few things I didn?t ?know,? although I imagine many people on this list could recite all this stuff back to front? (1) SORCERY: Although modern usage of the word has a more generalised association, in the Middle Ages, sorcery was regarded as an exclusively negative use of magic. White (helpful) magic included medical or protective magic, whereas sorcery described only Black (harmful) magic. This places an interesting slant on the renaming of The Philosopher?s Stone as The Sorcerer?s Stone. I imagine Scholastic used Fantasia?s Mickey-Mouse-Sorcerer?s-Apprentice as a reference point than dry textbooks on Medieval magic . (2) FORMS OF MAGIC: Charms and Potions were (and still are) common forms of magical practice in witchcraft, but so were talismans and amulets. Obviously, JKR chose to give Charms and Potions Hogwarts classes in their own right, but, so far, there are hardly any references to talismans and amulets in the books. In fact, I could only find two, both in CoS: ?Meanwhile, hidden from the teachers, a roaring trade in talismans, amulets, and other protective devices was sweeping the school. Neville Longbottom bought a large, evil-smelling green onion, a pointed purple crystal, and a rotting newt tail before the other Gryffindor boys pointed out that he was in no danger; he was a pure-blood, and therefore unlikely to be attacked.? ??. . . I remember something very similar happening in Ouagadogou," said Lockhart, "a series of attacks, the full story's in my autobiography, I was able to provide the townsfolk with various amulets, which cleared the matter up at once ......? **Amulets were protective devices with a strong psychological element. These often consisted of bunches of herbs, animal parts, or, if you had the dosh, gemstones [interesting that JKR includes items of vegetable, mineral and animal origin in her list, above], which were carried on the person. In modern times, the vestiges of such things in mainstream society are objects such as rabbits? feet and sprigs of heather used as ?lucky charms?. Of course, if you?re a really trendy New Ager, you might favour a nice crystal round your neck, rather than a rotting rabbit?s appendage. **Talismans are also protective devices, and usually consist of words or letters written on a piece of paper, which would also be carried around to ward off evil. Historically, these often had religious content and the letters were invariably arranged in squares, crosses, anagrams or other shapes, but sometimes were just phrases or nonsensical groups of words. This definition of talismans raises the possibility that the letter Dumbledore left with Harry at the start of PS was not just a letter, but a talisman, which is responsible for the protective magic cast over 4 Privet Drive. There is a reference to ?old magic,? or somesuch, which would fit with this type of Medieval practice. Perhaps there was some sort of protective code in the wording of the letter? The backwards inscription on the Mirror of Erised is also strongly suggestive of a talisman (not one you could carry unnoticed on your person, of course? unless you were Hagrid), and the mirror is a form of crystal or scrying device. Hmmmm. How could this be protective? Was the protection Lily gave to Harry a talisman or amulet of some sort? Perhaps not in the sense I?ve described above, but analogous to it? His scar? (Remember Dumbledore has a complex scar - could Harry's scar represent something more than a simple lightning bolt?) The protective/preventive (as opposed to curative, active) nature of talismans and amulets leads me to conclude that they would be covered in Herbology, DADA, History of Magic, Study of Ancient Runes et al, and, although Arithmancy suggests numerology, perhaps this mystery subject is also somehow connected with these ancient protective measures. Can anyone think of other amulets or talismans mentioned in the books, but not identified as such? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catlady at wicca.net Fri Jan 26 08:13:49 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:13:49 -0800 Subject: Personality Test - Animagi Filk - Japanese Fan Art - James and Lily - Amulets Message-ID: <3A7131BC.7025470C@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10775 It's been Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday -- all weekdays when people are supposed to be at work (or school), but you guys have posted hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of messages, so that I couldn't catch up even by staying up after bedtime. Perhaps fortunately, it seems that a third of the posts have been people listing their scores on the Which character are you like? and Sorting Hat quizzes. I liked the cute why Mike the Goat described his top five characters. Other than that, looking at people's lists of characters led me to wonder whether there is any validity to the system the quiz uses to decide which answers are like which character. Maybe people get told they are like characters whom they never thought they were like simply because the quiz designer was *wrong*. ANIMAGI FILK Caius Marcius wrote: (The Scene: Behind locked doors at Gryffindor, a generation or so distant. Three friends of Remus Lupin, SIRIUS BLACK, JAMES POTTER, and PETER PETTIGREW have reached the point in their Animagi studies that they are now ready to select the type of animal into which they will transform) The song is cute, but IIRC it has a Major Factual Error: Animagi don't get to CHOOSE their animal form, they just get stuck with the luck of the draw. I've often wondered if they could get a second animal form by going through the 'dangerous' Animagus process a second time. JAPANESE FAN ART (thanks Susan for the URL!) ender wrote: The only ones I didn't like were Hermione and Lee. Because of the dreadlocks, I had pictured Lee being black. I agree with you about liking and not liking the pictures. I am sure that GoF STATES that Lee is black (altho' I haven't found the page number g'rrr). Before reading that in GoF, I had assumed that Lee was a white boy with dreadlocks. JAMES AND LILY (one of my favorite ships) Dinah wrote: I think Mme Rosmerta - or some one else in the "Three Broomsticks" scene - said that Sirius and James were the cleverest wizards. Does anyone else have a slight problem with this? Sirius is a character that shows flaws, but James... Cleverest wizard, prankster, but still respected and responsible enough to become Headboy, great Seeker... It was in the Shrieking Shack, while Remus was explaining about his friends becoming Animagi, that he said: "Your father and Sirius here were the cleverest students in the school, and lucky they were, because the Animagus transformation can go horribly wrong Your father and Sirius here were the cleverest students in the school, and lucky they were, because the Animagus transformation can go horribly wrong" I've always assumed that Remus, saying that James and Sirius were the cleverest students in the school (I keep remembering it as 'in their year'!), omitted himself due to modesty and omitted Lily and Snape due to it would be too complicated. I'm sure all five of them (and Peter) were in the same year, and I often wonder about their class rank (by grades) ... Sirius's would be lower than it should be, because of not turning in homework assignments ... Snape was not Top of the class, which is one of the things he's resentful about.... but which was Top of the class, James or Lily? Evidence of Lily being up there with the rest of them: in SS, unreliable Hagrid said: "A wizard, o' course," said Hagrid, sitting back down on the sofa, which groaned and sank even lower, "an' a thumpin' good'un, I'd say, once yeh've been trained up a bit. With a mum an' dad like yours, what else would yeh be?" and "yer mum an' dad were as good a witch an' wizard as I ever knew. Head boy an' girl at Hogwarts in their day!" Someone already commented that James was Chaser, not Seeker. I have a problem with JKR having said that. She firmly established how much Harry resembles James physically, and she had Wood state that Harry is the right build for a Seeker, so therefore James would also have been the right build for a Seeker. The fans were all sure that James was a Seeker and were all wrong. The fans are all sure that James was a big star at Quidditch: could we be wrong about that, too? Was he good enough to get on the House team (and thus further excite Snape's envious hostility) but not good enough to turn pro, not even good enough to be the best player in the school in his day.... AMULETS Flying Ford Anglia wrote: Charms and Potions were (and still are) common forms of magical practice in witchcraft, but so were talismans and amulets. Obviously, JKR chose to give Charms and Potions Hogwarts classes in their own right, but, so far, there are hardly any references to talismans and amulets in the books. I think that Amulets is a class of its own, but one taken in sixth and seventh year, so we haven't seen it yet. -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Fri Jan 26 08:28:45 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:28:45 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Speed on the draw Message-ID: <01c08771$ffd6df20$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10776 >> In 13-Muggles-at-one-go incident Pettigrew was also faster than Black, >> contrary to McGonagall's claim that he was always hopeless at dueling. If >> *that* was hopelessness, guess how poor Black is at it... >> But perhaps Pettigrew learnt his tricks from Voldemort. > >Or perhaps Black wasn't tremendously on the ball. What with fatigue, grief for >his two best friends' deaths, rage at his two best friends' deaths, and >betrayal, he might have been a bit off the mark, eh? I'd rather think that he was packed with adrenaline. I see him in that scene with his teeth clenched and his hands trembling from fury so much he can't get his wand out. He didn't just want to mourn his friends, he wanted to get the b*****d who killed them. But he failed... Monika From john at walton.to Fri Jan 26 10:05:29 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:05:29 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: eGroups changing to YahooGroups Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10777 Hi from your friendly Moderator with Rock #47 :) As some of you may have noticed, eGroups has been swallowed by YahooGroups, and they're currently in the process of merging the two services together. What that means for you, Harry A. Listmember, is that at some point, you'll have to change all your links, bookmarks and other references to eGroups to YahooGroups, as well as having to get yourself a Yahoo ID. LINKS, BOOKMARKS AND EMAIL ADDRESSES For the meantime, however, YahooGroups assure us that old links, bookmarks and email addresses will work for an unspecified period of time. Those of you who sort HPforGrownups into a separate file using Outlook, Eudora, Claris or other email program will need to update your Rules, Sorting or whatever this process is called sooner, however. The group name, HPforGrownups, remains the same, but @egroups.com changes to @yahoogroups.com. If you don't update your sorting process, messages with yahoogroups.com at the end will end up somewhere else, likely your Inbox. YAHOO ID Those folks who joined after the group's transition from YahooClubs to eGroups probably won't have a Yahoo ID. A Yahoo ID is essentially an alias or "handle", like "johnwalton_crazyivan" (me), "plinsenmayer" (Penny), "siriusgeologist" (Carole and occasionally her husband Randy), "cassandraclaire73" (Cassie). These IDs can be made up of numbers, letters and _ marks and are also an email address at yahoo.com. We recommend that you choose a Yahoo ID similar to the name that appears on the email address you currently use for the eGroup to eliminate confusion (i.e. not "HermioneLuvr2001" if you've been using "Janine Q. Listmember" on your emails!) -- add a number or two to the end if you need to. Of course, the Moderator Team will keep you informed of all the news from YahooGroups. Cheers, --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator with Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From allyson at ptd.net Fri Jan 26 11:55:22 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:55:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mirror of Erised References: Message-ID: <01b701c0878f$37b11880$e704bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10778 Read the whole inscription backwards!!!!!! I won't spoil it for you!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ffion Miles To: HPforGrownups at eGroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 5:49 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Mirror of Erised Hi! To go right back to Book 1 - does anyone know what the inscription around the mirror actually means? I've figure out that Erised is desire backwards, but then I've come to a brickwall - I checked out the possibility of it being Latin,b ut I couldn't find any meaning in a Latin dictionary - but I'm sure I read somewhere that JK said there is a meaning to it - but it was for the readers to go and do some investiagative work and work it out for themselvs! Has anyone among us "Grownup" Potterists figured it out? Ffion _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at walton.to Fri Jan 26 11:59:19 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:59:19 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: On/Off-list replies, Subject Headings, Combining replies Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10779 Hello again from your friendly Moderator With Rock #47. ON/OFF-LIST REPLIES The Moderator Team would like to call your attention to the large number of replies to two particular quizzes: the "Which Character Are You" and "Sorting" ones, to be precise. We would, as always, encourage you to participate for your own enjoyment. However, they have been taking up a lot of bandwidth, so please think about whether your reply would be better off on the list or in personal email. SUBJECT HEADINGS We've also noticed that there are quite a few messages being sent with inaccurate subject headings. PLEASE, for the sanity of everyone, make sure your messages have an appropriate subject heading. For instance, if a message about the Hog's Head has turned to a discussion of the relative merits of the Harry Potter Lexicon, change the subject to: "HP Lexicon (was: Hog's Head)". New folks especially should attempt not to put all their questions in an email entitled "Questions". Rather, be more specific: "Wand Order/Harry as Gryffindor's Heir/Movie Dates" is much better -- and will catch people's attention more easily. COMBINING REPLIES Please, if you are making a series of replies to one thread, make them all in the same email! There's nothing worse than finding 15 messages on the same thread and then trying to wade through them to make sure they're not just duplicates. That's all. If you have any questions, feel free to email your friendly Moderator Team at hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From ender_w at msn.com Fri Jan 26 12:04:44 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:04:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: I'm new...I've got burning questions References: <94qdem+g51b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001901c08790$323442a0$14eb183f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 10780 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy " To: Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: I'm new...I've got burning questions > > > 3. How come some wizards can conjure up platters of food, while > poor > > old Mrs. Weasley has to cook with her wand? > > Ah, the burning Wizard Economics question. My theory: cooking is a > mixture of muggle-type work and conjuring. (Cream sauce does come > pouring out of her wand, after all.) An optional or additional > possibility: you can only conjure what you've got "in the bank," so > to speak. Dumbledore can conjure up anything that Hogwarts' riches > can afford; Mrs. W can conjure up only what the Weasleys can > afford. ??? > I assumed that the food at Hogwart's feasts was not conjured out of this air, but was prepared by house elves, then apparated, in a sense, up to the Great Hall and onto plates. ender From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 13:06:50 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:06:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Go easy on Trelawny Message-ID: <20010126130650.16897.qmail@web1002.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10781 Does anyone else on this list feel a bit sorry for Prof. Trelawny? First of all, I can get some hint on how hard it must be to be a teacher. I'm just glad that Trelawny has at least two of her students who like and appreciate her. Sometimes I feel like saying, "Cut her some slack," whenever Harry and Ron start snickering behind her back, or when Hermione insulted her right to her face. Of course, I realize that these are younger teens, but still. From, Anake ===== ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ THE George Orwell Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thegeorgeorwellclub ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From dedorman at earthlink.net Fri Jan 26 13:15:01 2001 From: dedorman at earthlink.net (Doug & Erin Dorman) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:15:01 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A70D42A.C111ECDD@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10782 Thanks Amanda. We have (or had) a WB store in Woodfield mall but it was closing last time I was there so I would hate to waste a trip. I drive by it every day but once I'm in there...It's at least a 3 or 4 hour trek through that place. Anyone that lives near Chicago and has been to Woodfield can understand whta I'm talking about. lol FYI www.hallmark.com has quite a bit of Harry Potter merchandise as does www.sylvanlaneshoppe.com Erin -----Original Message----- From: Amanda Lewanski [mailto:editor at texas.net] I'm highly interested in this! I've no idea, we have a local WB store. They're only about $6, I can pick one up for you if you can't find it anywhere else. --Amanda To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 26 13:34:35 2001 From: bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr (bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:34:35 -0000 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Favorite Scene for HP Movie In-Reply-To: <01c08550$d04f26e0$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <94rudb+cku2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10783 Well I'd like to see Hermione's teeth growing down to beyond her chin! From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Fri Jan 26 13:19:38 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:19:38 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius Message-ID: <01c0879a$a2494cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 10784 >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Monika Zaboklicka" >> In 13-Muggles-at-one-go incident Pettigrew was also faster than Black, >> contrary to McGonagall's claim that he was always hopeless at dueling. If >> *that* was hopelessness, guess how poor Black is at it... >> But perhaps Pettigrew learnt his tricks from Voldemort. > >You have to keep in mind Sirius' mental condition at the moment Pettigrew >threw that curse. [...] Isn't a symptom of shock a >decrease in reaction time. Well, I rather imagine Black full of adrenaline in that scene. Got nothing to support this, you know, it's just my weird imagination. Anyway, I was merely pointing out that either McGonagall was wrong saying Pettigrew's hopeless at dueling, or Peter learnt his tricks from Voldemort. Black was not his normal self that night, sure, but anyway Pettigrew certainly was not "hopeless". >I have a question about that curse[...] Any ideas? That's what I see in the eyes of my weird imgaination: Sirius notices Peter in a crowded street when they are some 20 meters from each other and calls him. Pettigrew turns round, recognizes Sirius, turns white and shouts that Black betrayed the Potters. Sirius, blind with fury, reaches for his wand but his hands tremble with anger so much that he can't take it out of his pocket. Petigrew casts his spell - not Avada Kevadra, some other spell - huge ball of orange light moves torwards Sirius, it tears the street open like an eartquake, killing people and speading havoc. Pettigrew turns into a rat immediately after casting the spell and escapes, Sirius manages to take his wand out of his pocket at last and anihilates the ball of light when it's just a couple of feet away from him. My imagination is pretty weird, I told you ;-) >> I don't quite believe in Sirius's >> declaration "we would have died for you!" > >Just curious as to why you don't believe this statement. I think during the >time before James and Lily were betrayed, Sirius would have been willing to >die for any of the Marauders. Wow, you're right - I didn't explain what I meant, sorry. I think that Sirius would rather die then tell Voldemort anything. I am sure that he'd hold his tounge even if he'd been questioned about Snape. But he wouldn't do it *for* Voldemort's victim, he'd do it *against* Voldemort. It's my belief that James was his "best friend", Remus and Peter were just "friends". I don't see Sirius as a lad who could truly befriend somebody who hero-worshippes him. >Why would he entrust Peter with the job of >Secret Keeper if he didn't trust Pettigrew. He might not have believed >Peter was an exceptional wizard, but he entrusted James and Lily, and >Harry's lives to him. Well, let's start with a thesis that for some reason they couldn't ask Remus - maybe he was away, maybe Sirius or one of the Potters heard rumours he's cooperating with Voldemort, it doesn't matter. If Remus was "unavailable", there was little choice - Sirius, Peter and Dumbledore. James had already refused Dumbledore's offer (I guess he didn't want to bother him), so there were two possibilities actually - Sirius or Peter. I think that Sirius's idea was that nobody would think that Potters could choose "Little Peter" instead of him. He thought that Voldemort would go after him, leaving Peter safe with Potters' secret. The idea that Pettigrew might actually *go* to Voldemort obviously didn't cross his head, but that doesn't mean he trusted Peter with all his heart. Shortly - in my opinion he thought that Peter wouldn't tell mostly because he wouldn't have been asked, and that's why he persuaded James to use Pettigrew. >So are you saying, you think Sirius wasn't that fond of Remus, that's why he >sent Snape down to the Shreiking shack? Well, no. He sent Snape to Shrieking Shack because he didn't like Snape and didn't care to think what would happen to Remus if Snape was attacked. > Its always been my impression of >Black's character that he didn't really think through the consequences of >this prank. Personally I doubt that he thought about the consequences at all. >Its been my impression that pre-Azkaban Sirius was rather arrogant and >convinced of his own cleverness, not very introspective and not very >responsible. I agree. But I think that seemingly intelligent boy of sixteen should do some thinking before sending a colleague to death or fate not much better than it. You can see the difference between James and Sirius in their >reaction to the prank. Sirius instigated it (not vey mature) and James >realized the consequences and risked his life to fix it (much more mature). That's true. Sirius was very lucky to have a friend like James and must have known it. No wonder he liked James so much. Monika From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 26 13:34:51 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:34:51 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Similar responses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94rudr+o8ej@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10785 A quick addition to John's earlier post, from your Mechanimagus Moderator: SIMILAR RESPONSES If someone asks a question with a unique answer (such as the recent one about the Mirror of Erised), please try to check through the message headers to see if anyone else has responded to it before posting. It's understandable that several people may dash off a response just after the original message, but there should be no need for further posts after that. We know it's hard with a zillion posts every day, but that's another good reason everyone should ensure that their message headers are relevant. Thanks for your cooperation! Neil From morine10 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 13:41:22 2001 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 08:41:22 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10786 In a message dated 1/26/01 3:00:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, tigeriz969 at yahoo.com writes: << *splash* *splash* *splash* Ahoy there! *arm waving in the water* Captain Kathy! Down here! Permission to climb aboard! Permission granted! (First mate Mo here, throwing you a lifering) Is there room for one more ferverent RH shipster? There's always room for jello and one more R/H-er. :) I agree with Ginny getting Harry. After all, the underdog girl should be able to get her crush once in awhile! I have to agree. Besides, we haven't seen all of Ginny. JKR has promised us more of the youngest Weasley and I believe that she just might blow us away! -Mo First Mate R/H-shipper First Class From s_ings at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 14:02:05 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:02:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books Message-ID: <20010126140205.18130.qmail@web206.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10787 --- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Does anyone know a likely place to find the books in > Polish? My husband > and I went to Poland on our honeymoon, eons ago in > the days B.C., and I > for no good reason got a set of the Lord of the > Rings in Polish. Don't > know Polish, can't read it, but why not expand? > > --Amanda > There's a Polish bookstore here in Ottawa. I've never been in there (so I don't know how much they have) but I'd be happy to check it out for you. Sheryll > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From donna.rae at verizon.net Fri Jan 26 14:11:40 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (donna.rae at verizon.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:11:40 -0000 Subject: A Few Observations Message-ID: <94s0is+aelo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10788 I've been a part of this list for a while, but rarely post. There are a few observations that I have after reading the books for the third time. Hagrid - It seems that Hagrid and Madam Maxime are the only giant (or half-giant) wizards (and we know that Hargid is a wizard because his wand (pink umbrella) works). Dumbledore has indicated that the giants will have a roll in the fight against Voldemort, so I would expect to see Hagrid reunited with his mother at some time. Does anyone else feel this is going to happen? Malfoy and Buckbeak - This episode really started to annoy me the third time through the books. Madam Pomfrey has, in the past, completely healed many different wounds instantly. These include Harry's bonelessness, Ron's broken leg, all the Triwizard champions after the dragon task. Why couldn't she heal Malfoy when Buckbeak wounded him? He spent weeks in bandages holding his arm in supposed pain. He was incapacitated enough to have Snape insist that Ron help him in the potions class. Plus, if Buckbeak deserved to be killed for wounding Malfoy, certainly the dragons did as much damage to the kids and nothing was said. We all know that Malfoy was pretending, but why couldn't the teachers see that? Whenever anyone else is wounded, they are expected to just get over it. Of course, Buckbeak's predicament *was* a major plot line . Donna Rae From pbnesbit at msn.com Fri Jan 26 14:20:39 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:20:39 -0000 Subject: (OT) Parker? As in fanfic-writing Parker? In-Reply-To: <94ra5h+sr84@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94s13n+ci8r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10789 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., ebonyink at h... wrote: > I'm posting this to the list, because I refer to an LMM comment I > think Rina made in the ship thread. My Harry Potter obsession is > second only to my LMM obsession... after all, her Emily novels are > the only other series I write fanfic for! ;-) > > Parker wrote: > >Ebony-- > > > >I am an H/H shipper (firm) & an LMM fan too. > >I can see parallels in both JKR & LMM & I agree with what you said. > > > That makes four of us, then! I knew I wasn't crazy, even when all my > LMM fanatic friends (including my best friend) said "Harry and > *Hermione*? Where do you get that from?" LMM wrote Anne and > Gilbert's love-hate relationship, *but* she also wrote the Emilies. > Perhaps Ron and Hermione are Ilse and Perry... perhaps not. I've > read my Emilies until they're dog-eared, and never thought of that > comparison at all until Rina brought it up. I always thought of > Harry and Hermione as paralleling Teddy and Emily in a vague sort of > way... especially since I read GoF shortly after re-reading the > Emilies. > > Anyway, are you the Parker that writes the "hidden scenes" GoF fics? > Please, if you are, don't be shy. I spent a great deal of last week > plugging you and you're on my favorites page! Your writing is > exactly what I hope was really going on "behind the scenes" of GoF. > I can't wait to see more. I'd also like to continue this > conversation off list... I have some questions that might pertain to > my own science experiment of a fic and you just might be the one to > help. > > --Ebony AKA AngieJ Ebony-- No, I'm not *that* Parker. I did notice the name, though. Will have to read his/her fanfic!! I do have an idea for a fanfic, though. It involves a big black dog, a wolf, and a woman who loves them both. Peace, Parker (aka Harpdreamer) From aichambaye at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 14:25:29 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:25:29 -0000 Subject: James and Quidditch/ James's profession? In-Reply-To: <3A7131BC.7025470C@wicca.net> Message-ID: <94s1cp+4sfr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10790 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Catlady wrote: > Someone already commented that James was Chaser, not Seeker. I have a > problem with JKR having said that. She firmly established how much > Harry resembles James physically, and she had Wood state that Harry is > the right build for a Seeker, so therefore James would also have been > the right build for a Seeker. The fans were all sure that James was a > Seeker and were all wrong. The fans are all sure that James was a big > star at Quidditch: could we be wrong about that, too? Was he good enough > to get on the House team (and thus further excite Snape's envious > hostility) but not good enough to turn pro, not even good enough to be > the best player in the school in his day.... I guess we all know that seekers are the big stars (like forwards in football-soccer), but I think that James, as a chaser, could have been the best player in the school in his day. While seekers (and forwards) are very flashy and important, it's possible that chasers are also "born" - ie, it's not just that you aren't a good seeker that makes you a good chaser. I don't know many second-rate forwards that are demoted to, say, center-mid. Anyway, the big point is, maybe James was a professional chaser? No one ever says where James and Lily made that pile of money in Harry's vault. Or maybe he was a Quidditch national team coach or something like that. Certainly takes both brains and ability to be a great coach. I know someone surely would have mentioned this to Harry if it were so... but what did they DO? Do we know and I missed it (this is VERY possible!) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 14:27:13 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:27:13 -0000 Subject: Japanese fanart In-Reply-To: <3A6F7ACC.C245DDB3@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <94s1g1+n0gc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10791 please do it again!Lee's and Draco's hair (was Japanese fanart) Heidi wrote: >Lee isn't described as having dreadlocks until GoF. >I also noticed that some pix of Draco which I found in links from those >pages have him with very very dark hair - which makes sense if PoA is >recently out or not out yet, as it's not until then that JKR says his hair >is silvery blond. Oh, wow! These two statements drove me nuts. I can't find a reference to Draco's hair anywhere in PS/SS (I got a hold of myself and quit after that). Have I only pictured him with very light hair because he's always described as pale? Has anyone found an earlier reference? But Lee's dreadlocks are mentioned the first time we see him, in PS/SS. Platform 9 3/4: A boy with dreadlocks was surrounded by a small crowd. "Give us a look, Lee, go on." The boy lifted the lid of a box in his arms, and the people around him shrieked and yelled as something inside poked out a long, hairy leg. Later, on the train: The twins were back. "Listen, we're going down the middle of the train--Lee Jordan's got a giant tarantula down there." Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron peered into Harry's teacup, his forehead wrinkled with effort. "There's a blob a bit like a bowler hat," he said. "Maybe you're going to work for the Ministry of Magic. . . ." -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Fri Jan 26 14:28:37 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:28:37 +1100 Subject: ADMIN: List traffic and Similar responses References: <94rudr+o8ej@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <083801c087a4$45eb9ff0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 10792 >From 22/01/2001 6:00am until now, 27/01/2001 12:58 am, I have exactly 666 unread messages in my HP4GU folder. :-) (This is somewhat reduced because I read 3 from my Inbox which explained the change in domain. Lucky I caught that before I had a completely flooded Inbox -- my sorting rules go on the To: email address, and I have some groups which have three email addresses -- they were with Onelist before they merged into eGroups which is now YahooGroups) The traffic on this list is phenomenal! I'm on lots of special-interest mailing lists which receive between 1 and 20 messages a day, but I get hundreds here. It's to the point where I can't read all the mail without spending hours -- which I can't do every day and it builds up. I wonder if it's possible to use the 'sister' eGroups (sorry, YahooGroups) to spread the traffic out so that people can tune into what they like (such as ships or fanfic -- as much as I like reading expositions on ship preferences, there's just so much traffic that it obscures the more, um, interesting new ideas.) Looking at the group membership, 600 people is not that many, it's just that we are very prolific, and it has a cumulative effect as people reply many times. Lots of the groups I'm on have 5x that number or subscribers, but people don't sit there and doggedly reply to every message. (*Amy*? or is it that there are lots of Amies? ). I agree with Neil's recent message that people should check if a question has been answered below before firing off the reply -- and just add a little to that reply rather than write it all again. I'd also like to stress that people need to hack into the message they are quoting from and only show the relevant part above each bit of reply. Also it's important to make clear what's yours and what's quoted. There are lots of ways of doing this, but an internet pseudo-standard is to use the > (greater than) sign _in_front_of_each_line_ not just once for the paragraph. Eg: > this is quoted line 1 > and this is line 2 rather than > this is line 1 and line 2 You also need to make sure there is a blank line between what you quote and the reply, to clearly separate it. This form of quoting is easily extended to multiple levels, eg. > > We should all use a similar form, and I > > think this is fairly good > > Yeah it's much better than the posts all over the place. Simon Biber. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 14:32:49 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:32:49 -0000 Subject: Ancient Magic In-Reply-To: <3A6F8A90.26E44B21@texas.net> Message-ID: <94s1qh+8f5r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10793 Amanda wrote: >Only, I believe, in that it was an old, underlying magic, it was >overlooked (or not known about) by the Bad Guy, and it gives the good >side an edge. This is true of V also. He seems not to have thought of that possibility--Tom Riddle muses on it with an air that suggests it's a new idea for him. And clearly the grown V didn't think of it before he stormed into Godric's Hollow. There is even a parallel in the nature of the "deep magic"--both are about the saving power of sacrificial love (for Lewis, this is the Christian doctrine of the Atonement--for JKR the religious interpretation remains subtext at most). A colleague of mine drew this parallel in a sermon on HP--Lily as Jesus. I don't recall if he noted the significance of her name. Amy Z who really does NOT believe that HP is a Christian allegory ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We don't send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts!" -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From s_ings at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 14:57:14 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:57:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? Message-ID: <20010126145714.11514.qmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10794 --- ebonyink at hotmail.com wrote: > That's right! The siren and the ska princess who > moonlights as the > Captain of the D/G ship... > > Add Parker to the list. > > Told you we were the party crowd. :-) > > Where are the rest of you? > > --Ebony AKA AngieJ > I am slightly north of your ship's location - floating gently across the sea on a small but luxurious yacht called the 'Sirius & I'. I rather suspect Carole will be jumping ship and joining me. Carole, your stateroom is ready. Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From bradamant at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 15:11:02 2001 From: bradamant at hotmail.com (Emily Owens) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:11:02 -0500 Subject: Magical notions of prejudice (Ron/Lupin) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10795 Amy wrote: > > Ron's "get away from me, werewolf!" in the Shrieking Shack is a very > > painful moment IMO. >Amanda wrote: Remember Hagrid's background is genetic, and Lupin's problem is a disease. Contagious. Nasty. Incurable. Kind of like if you just found out your close friend had AIDS. It would wack you out a bit, even if you weren't in quite a bit of physical pain and simultaneously trying to assimilate a very, very bizarre situation. I think Amanda has a good point here about the difference between vampires and werewolves vs. giants, even if the AIDS comparison doesn't quite work...people who suffer from that disease don't periodically become violent and overcome with the compulsion to infect others! While I find Ron's comment a little disappointing -- how quickly he turns against a favorite teacher! -- I think it's important to remember one of the important roles that Ron plays in the structure of the story. He is the only one of the Trio to grow up in a wizarding family, and therefore JKR uses him to introduce both the reader and Harry/Hermione to the wizarding way of looking at things. Especially in the beginning, H & H look to him to see how to react; the reader uses him as a gauge to see how wizards look at things. Also, when I first read this scene, I took this comment partly in the "Ick, get away!" sense, sort of in the same vein as when he later says to Pettigrew, "I let you sleep in my *bed*!" Emily _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rina at love-productions.com Fri Jan 26 15:25:38 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:25:38 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . Message-ID: <008c01c087ac$3cbcba60$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10796 Susan wrote: <> No, Hermione's. She doesn't seem to consider it even worthy of mentioning when she talks about what House she wants to be in. But I have heard some very...interesting...theories about just how nice the Hufflepuffs are, so maybe I'll be happy there after all. Besides, just because I whined about the nerd quotient doesn't mean that it's not totally the House I belong in. <> Amen, sister! Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Fri Jan 26 15:29:59 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:29:59 -0000 Subject: A Few Observations - malfoy & buckbeak In-Reply-To: <94s0is+aelo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94s55n+q3j2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10797 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., donna.rae at v... wrote: > Malfoy and Buckbeak - This episode really started to annoy me the > third time through the books. Madam Pomfrey has, in the past, > completely healed many different wounds instantly. These include > Harry's bonelessness, Ron's broken leg, all the Triwizard champions > after the dragon task. Why couldn't she heal Malfoy when Buckbeak > wounded him? He spent weeks in bandages holding his arm in supposed > pain. He was incapacitated enough to have Snape insist that Ron help > him in the potions class. Plus, if Buckbeak deserved to be killed > for wounding Malfoy, certainly the dragons did as much damage to the > kids and nothing was said. We all know that Malfoy was pretending, > but why couldn't the teachers see that? Whenever anyone else is > wounded, they are expected to just get over it. Of course, > Buckbeak's predicament *was* a major plot line . One thing we've seen elsewhere in the books is that an injury directly caused by a magical creature is different than a broken bone or a dragon burn (Cedric was the only one burned severely in GoF - I just checked - and he certainly wasn't instantly healed - he spent time with that paste on his face). For example, in PS/SS, when Ron gets the dragon bite, he spends the night in the infirmary getting healed, after it gets infected. Along those lines, it's possible that being cut open by a hippogriff (and draco was bleeding a *lot*) is similar to being bitten by a dragon - it takes some time to heal, even with magic - of course, that would likely only explain maybe 4-5 days of Draco being injured, and we know he stretched the wearing the sling for a few months, so there was clearly some lying/exagerating going on there, but given the fact that it was a magical creature injury, it's understandable that it took longer to heal than a simple broken bone. And as a PS - I covered a little of this issue in my fanfic, A Surfeit of Curses, in chapter 4 & the forthcoming Chapter 5 (which will again include Simon Branford - an actual on-screen appearance this time!) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Fri Jan 26 15:30:27 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:30:27 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Addressing high-traffic on this list Message-ID: <94s56j+k2f3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10798 Simon Biber said: <<>> Simon: thank you for your comments. The moderators have been discussing the problem of the very heavy traffic in here, in the cyber equivalent of a smoke-filled room, and the possibility of using existing sister groups or creating more sub-groups to help alleviate the problem is one of the options. Please bear with us, as we haven't reached a consensus view on this as yet. Everyone: Simon made some more valid points about netiquette and I will politely draw your attention to the 'boilerplate' Netiquette messages we post occasionally, which contain hints on all these points and more. You will understand that as well as encouraging good practice, these announcements are intended to reduce unnecessary traffic in our high-volume list, so please read them. Could I suggest that anyone else who has comments or suggestions on this matter e-mail the Moderators, as John suggested earlier, at hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com? We welcome any constructive ideas on how to address this situation or comments on any other aspect of the club. Neil Moderator Team (who are starting to feel like traffic cops ) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 15:44:17 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:44:17 -0000 Subject: Ode to Harry Potter In-Reply-To: <94ppdb+h2k9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94s60h+3stl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10799 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Becky Penar" wrote: > This may be old news, but I just came across this Ode to Harry > Potter... > > http://www.oceanazur.com/index.htm > > Becky LOL! Not for H/G shippers only. Thanks for the link, Becky! You can see the words (always helpful with punk) if you click on the Switchblade Kittens and then on "Ode to HP" on their website. The writer says she read all 4 books to the rest of the band while they were touring! We should invite her to join HPforGU! Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 15:52:01 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:52:01 -0000 Subject: killing curses Message-ID: <94s6f1+s7li@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10800 In those moments at the end of PoA that Harry is seriously on the verge of killing Sirius: how would he have done it? Is there some curse he already knows that will kill someone? Amy Z --------------------------------------------------------------- Spotted on CompuServe 1/26/01: "What was Aunt Marge thinking?" (it's an ad for Ebay) From voicelady at mymailstation.com Fri Jan 26 15:55:05 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 26 Jan 2001 07:55:05 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Roll Call Message-ID: <20010126155505.28526.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10801 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 26 16:03:40 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:03:40 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: James & Lily Potter References: <94q5qf+vib7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <007101c087b1$8d7cc760$a22b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10802 > James was Chaser, actually. Thank goodness--Harry is not like him in > EVERY respect. > Amy Z Ouch, that was my mistake. But Sirius was Beater, right? ~ Dinah ~ (*siriusly alarmed by her lack of knowledge*) ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 16:17:34 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:17:34 -0000 Subject: Oct. 31 (was Harry's abilities...) In-Reply-To: <94q59v+fotv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94s7uu+uo4b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10803 Dai wrote: > However... big problem... Killing her family in front of her was > probably not the way to go about recruiting her. Yeah, I think it's safe to say that if V had been trying to co-opt either or both of the Potters, he'd given up by that night. I have another question. Harry's parents were killed on Oct. 31. Does anyone else think that it's significant that that's the day Sirius first tries to get into Gryffindor Tower to kill Pettigrew? (It's also the day Lupin asks Harry in for tea.) Of course, there are good strategic reasons; he wants to break in on an evening when he knows students won't be there--Hermione and Ron even talk about this being a stroke of luck/carelessness on SB's part, but we know better. But on my latest, i.e. 6th or so, reading of PA, I had the MWPP background in mind and wondered whether Sirius and/or Remus is thinking of James and Lily that day. It seems unlikely to me that Oct. 31 could go by without them doing so; of course, I remember all sorts of dates, like the birthday of the boy who used to live next door to me whom I haven't seen since we were 8, so maybe I'm weird. For his part, Harry doesn't note Oct. 31, that or any year, as having any other significance than Halloween. It's possible he doesn't know the date they died? Or is this just an emotional piece JKR chooses not to delve into? Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------- If only the hat had mentioned a house for people who felt a bit queasy, that would have been the one for him. --HP and the Philosopher's Stone ---------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 16:28:48 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:28:48 -0000 Subject: Geography (was Lily Evans) In-Reply-To: <94q6h9+pnvb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94s8k0+qi5t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10804 Monika wrote: >> An Aside: I still wonder where Harry and Hagrid were all day, > since > > >the > > >> Potters were killed > > > > >Perhaps he had to be taken somewhere along the way to have > protective > > >charms placed on him ? Dai wrote: > In which case Godrics Hollow is not necessarily in South Wales as has > previously been supposed by some as Hagrid flew over Bristol on his > way to Surrey. Wherever Harry was taken in the interim was in South > Wales though. JKR does seem intent on confounding (or confunding) our attempts to place most of HP geographically, however. Someone asked her whether Azkaban was off the southern coast, since Sirius stops in Surrey on the way from Azkaban to Hogwarts, and she said no. (I picture it quite a ways out in the North Sea, myself. I'm sure those wizards are a lot smarter than whoever put Alcatraz within swimming distance of San Francisco. Though Alcatraz, too, had Dementors as well as walls and water . . .) Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 16:33:05 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:33:05 -0000 Subject: ISO house t-shirts Message-ID: <94s8s1+jpu6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10805 I've had no trouble resisting the merchandise-buying urge because I can't stand the drawings of the characters. However, a Ravenclaw t-shirt sounds harmless (the sorting hat put me in Gryffindor but I still think it's wrong. It forgot to ask whether I'm an insufferable know-it-all). Can someone direct me, offlist to avoid onlist shilling, to a website that sells these goodies? Amy Z making up her birthday wish list From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 16:40:33 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:40:33 -0000 Subject: Pettigrew/random thoughts In-Reply-To: <20010125223427.24862.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <94s9a1+r39h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10806 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Star wrote: > Just to clear this up, Peter shouted to teh whole street the lies about Sirius being the one to betray Lily and James then, when Sirius is telling the story in PoA, Peter put his wand behind his BACK and blasted the street BEHIND him. I'm sure Peter and Sirius were knocked off their feet then Peter cut his finger and turned into a rat to escape. or even cut his finger off before confronting Sirius. Sirius says he, SB, cornered him, PP (363 in US ed), but that doesn't mean Peter wasn't looking for the confrontation. We know that Peter was in the position that Fudge imagines Sirius to have been in: the moment he revealed himself as the traitor, his master lost his power. He wants the opportunity to frame Sirius, fake his death, and disappear. So maybe he cut off his finger as soon as he worked out the plan and then went looking for Sirius. Amy Z From donna.rae at verizon.net Fri Jan 26 16:41:29 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:41:29 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Oct. 31 (was Harry's abilities...) References: <94s7uu+uo4b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <037d01c087b6$d5c48e40$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10807 Harry's never even asked anyone where his parents are buried. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Z" To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Oct. 31 (was Harry's abilities...) > Dai wrote: > > > However... big problem... Killing her family in front of her was > > probably not the way to go about recruiting her. > > Yeah, I think it's safe to say that if V had been trying to co-opt > either or both of the Potters, he'd given up by that night. > > I have another question. Harry's parents were killed on Oct. 31. > Does anyone else think that it's significant that that's the day > Sirius first tries to get into Gryffindor Tower to kill Pettigrew? > (It's also the day Lupin asks Harry in for tea.) Of course, there are > good strategic reasons; he wants to break in on an evening when he > knows students won't be there--Hermione and Ron even talk about this > being a stroke of luck/carelessness on SB's part, but we know better. > But on my latest, i.e. 6th or so, reading of PA, I had the MWPP > background in mind and wondered whether Sirius and/or Remus is > thinking of James and Lily that day. It seems unlikely to me that > Oct. 31 could go by without them doing so; of course, I remember all > sorts of dates, like the birthday of the boy who used to live next > door to me whom I haven't seen since we were 8, so maybe I'm weird. > > For his part, Harry doesn't note Oct. 31, that or any year, as having > any other significance than Halloween. It's possible he doesn't know > the date they died? Or is this just an emotional piece JKR chooses > not to delve into? > > Amy Z > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > If only the hat had mentioned a house for people who felt > a bit queasy, that would have been the one for him. > --HP and the Philosopher's Stone > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 16:47:28 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:47:28 -0000 Subject: for haiku fans Message-ID: <94s9n0+luke@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10808 I thought these were pretty funny. http://www.infoplease.com/spot/haikuharry.html Make up your own! It's fun! It's haiku! It's Harry! Amy Z <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Full moon - West Tower A hippogriff's shadow soars No Merlin for Snape From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 17:05:16 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:05:16 -0000 Subject: Oct. 31 (was Harry's abilities...) In-Reply-To: <037d01c087b6$d5c48e40$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> Message-ID: <94saoc+6tmo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10809 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Donna Rae" wrote: > Harry's never even asked anyone where his parents are buried. Nor looked up his parents in Modern Magical History, The Rise and Fall of the Dark Arts, or Great Wizarding Events of the Twentieth Century. I think I can understand why. But I wouldn't mind seeing the thought process--Harry's own pros and cons. Is he curious? Is he scared to read his personal tragedy from a historian's dry perspective? We know the photos mean a great deal to him--does he ever want to talk to these old school friends of his parents and ask what they were like? Amy Z From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Fri Jan 26 17:15:00 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:15:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's feelings/thoughts about parents References: <94saoc+6tmo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <033a01c087bb$8660d160$a22b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10810 > We know > the photos mean a great deal to him--does he ever want to talk to > these old school friends of his parents and ask what they were like? > Amy Z That's what I missed in the conversations between Harry and Remus. R was reluctant to confess that he and James were friends at Hogwarts, but after he said that I always wondered why Harry never asked. At least after Lupin learned what Harry heard when the Dementors advanced - and he was obviously quite shaken by it, too - I thought that *now* was the time to offer comfort, to tell Harry more about his parents. The voices of their struggle with death is the most vivid expression of them he has, and that's not a pretty thought. It also would have been a good method to weaken the scenes the Dementors ticked off in Harrys head. What also struck me strange about Harry and the thoughts he has about his parents was the wand scene in GoF. I realized that the order was wrong, but that didn't really bother me. What bothered me most was that the person Harry had thought of most this evening was James - and we never were told about this. Not a tiny mention of Harrys feelings and thoughts. And then James drops out, says "You're mum is coming, too" and that was it. Lily talks to Harry (it's a typical motherly scene and I love it, really - another bad thing about the order change, they deprived Lily of the first decent mention she had), but he doesn't seem to moved by that, either. Somehow I thought it would trigger a reaction, despite the danger and strress he is in. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Fri Jan 26 16:02:21 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:02:21 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? References: <20010126145714.11514.qmail@web210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008e01c087be$8b6baec0$7a4ad63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10811 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheryll Townsend" > I am slightly north of your ship's location - floating > gently across the sea on a small but luxurious yacht > called the 'Sirius & I'. I rather suspect Carole will > be jumping ship and joining me. Carole, your stateroom > is ready. > Ummm...can I apparate there? As much as I love the SS H/H...I must admit to being compelled by the smaller more "intimate" accommodations on Sheryll's yacht....I'll come and support the SS H/H in times of trouble...but what can I say about a private stateroom on the "Sirius and I" By the way, Sheryll, do you still have my transmission? and could you bring it to Providence with you when you come? Further BTW...I saw a man who was the spitting image of Sirius at the mall the other night, right down to a black leather jacket...I so wish I'd had a camera! I would have pulled a Peg and asked for a picture under the guise of being a writer! Sigh.... carole From bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 26 17:57:38 2001 From: bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr (bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:57:38 -0000 Subject: Geography (was Lily Evans) In-Reply-To: <94s8k0+qi5t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94sdqi+b7l2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10812 > Dai wrote: > > > In which case Godrics Hollow is not necessarily in South Wales as > has > > previously been supposed by some as Hagrid flew over Bristol on his > > way to Surrey. Wherever Harry was taken in the interim was in South > > Wales though. > > JKR does seem intent on confounding (or confunding) our attempts to > place most of HP geographically, however. Someone asked her whether > Azkaban was off the southern coast, since Sirius stops in Surrey on > the way from Azkaban to Hogwarts, and she said no. (I picture it > quite a ways out in the North Sea, myself. I'm sure those wizards are > a lot smarter than whoever put Alcatraz within swimming distance of > San Francisco. Though Alcatraz, too, had Dementors as well as walls > and water . . .) > > Amy Z > I thought Azkaban was Azerbaijan the Azerbaijan republic, a constituent republic of the USSR, lying between the Black and Caspian Seas and containing the Baku oilfields. Until the early 19th c. it formed part of Persia; pop. (est. 1987) 6,811,000; capital, Baku. From rina at love-productions.com Fri Jan 26 18:25:25 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:25:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Party on the Good Ship R/H Message-ID: <016201c087c5$5ab51da0$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10813 Kathy wrote: <> Hee hee. Cool beans. Speaking of cool, can I take a moment to complain? I'M COLD! Someone on the good ship R/H please find me a warmer state room? There was an explosion at my school's power plant, and my building is completely 100% without heat. ::Rina wraps her Hogwarts blanket a little more tightly around her shoulders:: <> I don't think I would say Ron/Harry is more plausible (although I did raise my eyebrows when Ron was Harry's most important person ), but I do enjoy Ron/Harry stories. Although I was determined to read the books without *any slash mindset (I've been told that I think everyone is gay. I'm trying to work on that. ), I did have the glimmers of R/Ha and Dean/Seamus that I tried to repress. LOL Any one else? And what led you to these slashy thoughts? Like I said, I have an EIG outlook on pretty much all fic characters. For now, that's my excuse. I'll try and reason more later. WHEN MY BRAIN ISN'T FROZEN! Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr Fri Jan 26 18:27:16 2001 From: bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr (bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:27:16 -0000 Subject: Which character does the quiz put me as? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94sfi4+dqe0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10814 I was just wondering, am I the only person around here for whom the quiz put Harry Potter in the last position? And I just LOVE the books! From moongrl0719 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 18:33:25 2001 From: moongrl0719 at aol.com (moongrl0719 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:33:25 -0000 Subject: character quiz Message-ID: <94sftl+kmnp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10815 First let me say hi to all my fellow HP obesessed friends out there! I'm not new to this site, I've been reading and following almost ALL of the thousands of posts and threads for a few months, but this is the first time I'm writing. Can someone PLEASE tell me where I can find this character quiz that everyone is talking about? I've tried to find it but can't. By the way, does anyone know if JKR has read any of the fanfic out there? I've read PoU and really enjoyed it, and I often wondered during my reading if she has ever read any of the many fanfic stories floating around out there and what she thinks of what people are doing to her characters! Perhaps she gets ideas for the future....? Anybody know if she has? I'm sure she must realize what she has started!! Kerrie From msl at fc.net Fri Jan 26 18:40:38 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:40:38 -0000 Subject: A Few Observations In-Reply-To: <94s0is+aelo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94sgb6+js18@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10816 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., donna.rae at v... wrote: > Malfoy and Buckbeak - [snip] We all know that Malfoy was pretending, > but why couldn't the teachers see that? Whenever anyone else is > wounded, they are expected to just get over it. Of course, > Buckbeak's predicament *was* a major plot line . > > Donna Rae I get the strong feeling that Draco's father is very powerful within the wizarding community. Of course we already knew that, but we now know the extent. Malfoy Sr. has enough influence that the MoM, Dumbledore, & Hogwarts board of regents would all rather kill an innocent hippogriff (or chance a risky time-travel scheme) than tell him that Malfoy Jr. is a lying little snake-turd. Not that Malfoy Sr. wouldn't be proud of that--"A chip of the old block," he'd probably say. :-) marvin ------- Meanwhile, aboard Unterseeboot Noship... "Lieutenant, report!" "Sir, the frogmen have returned with 2 kegs of mead from the SS H/H." "Excellent. We've pulled another no-shipper from the water. It's time to party." "Sir, yes sir. All hands prepare for dive! Ensign, pinch the horn-elf, he's fallen asleep again." "Sir, yes sir." "Well! I never...wait, were diving? Well then! AWOOOGA! AWOOOGA!" From monika at darwin.inka.de Fri Jan 26 18:41:05 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:41:05 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94r2nk+j4um@eGroups.com> References: <94r2nk+j4um@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <2u837tojd5utl9bqjo46oeh969bopkac5v@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10817 On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:42:12 -0000, "Susan McGee" wrote: >> >> My results (Monika): >> >> # 1 Minerva McGonagall >> # 2 Albus Dumbledore >> # 3 Bill Weasley >> # 4 Severus Snape >I'm going to reply to everyone with the hope that they will reply to >me. Maybe it's the teacher connection, Monika........ >1, 2, and 4 are all teachers. A lot of people think I would be the worst teacher they can imagine (no patience at all), so that can't be it... Who would want to be like Snape?! Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From monika at darwin.inka.de Fri Jan 26 18:41:06 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:41:06 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Which character are you quiz . . . In-Reply-To: <94r2la+fqg4@eGroups.com> References: <94r2la+fqg4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10818 On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 05:40:57 -0000, "Susan McGee" wrote: >1) Remus Lupin >2) Albus Dumbledore >3) Rubeus Hagrid >4) Sirius Black Interesting combination. I assume you aren't very accessible once every month? I hope you won't go out and tear people to shreds. *g* Dumbledore was in second position on my list, too, so maybe we have something in common (any idea?). At least you didn't get all those teachers on top of your list (especially not Snape, I'm still shocked about why he was my no. 4...). I bet you always dreamt about having a dragon for a pet, right? Or are you fond of big, hairy spiders? And you certainly love big, black dogs? >Phew....Albus Dumbledore is my favorite character, and I like to >fantasize about being like him. Hagrid, Black, and Lupin are tied for >my next favorite characters. I just love them. And Harry is probably >next. What does this mean? I don't think the test gives out your favorites, it would have read very differently for me then. Dumbledore symbolizes wisdom and knowledge, for the rest I don't really know... Loyalty for Hagrid and Black, patience and intelligence for Lupin... >Notice that although I'm a radical feminist, McGonagall is 6 and >Granger is 11. My theory continues to be that JKR does not do well >with female characters. No, she doesn't. I was surprised to see McGonagall on top of my list. But I still see her as a strong character, even though she hasn't had much chance to show it yet. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 18:58:52 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:58:52 -0000 Subject: Audio plays from fanfic (was Audioplays) In-Reply-To: <001f01c08706$2933fb80$dbf106d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <94shdc+aqpl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10819 "Maybe Caius can write some Soundtrack songs? Really too tired to think about anything else now. Maybe hairstylists and make-up artists? And of course someone to care for the animals/animagi. If you really start doing something like this, I'd like to sign up as one of the scriptwriters/editors. Since I considered doing something like this as a job I'd be highly interested in checking it out. And I think I'm able to do it." ~ Dinah ~ Of course Caius has the film score, including incidental music and songs. I'll bet we have every talent we need right here in this group. I hope someone has access to a facility to assemble the whole thing together. No animagi were harmed during the production of this play, at least while in their animal form. The world's most famous movie director passed away and is standing at the Pearly Gates. St. Peter is welcoming him warmly. "We've been waiting for you for years. We're making a movie and we want you to direct it. Shakesepare wrote the script, Mozart composed the score, Michelangelo and DeVinci created the sets and scenery. You're going to cast the movie with the greatest actors and actresses of all time. It's going to be the ultimate movie." The director smiled."It sounds like a great honor to direct it. I'll be proud to direct it." St. Peter: "There's just one little thing. God's got this girlfriend..." From rlpenar at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 19:00:03 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (rlpenar at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:00:03 -0000 Subject: Illness in wizarding (was: A Few Observations) In-Reply-To: <94sgb6+js18@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94shfj+lltq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10820 > > Malfoy and Buckbeak - [snip] We all know that Malfoy was > pretending, > > but why couldn't the teachers see that? Whenever anyone else is > > wounded, they are expected to just get over it. Of course, > > Buckbeak's predicament *was* a major plot line . > > > > Donna Rae > Not that Malfoy Sr. wouldn't be proud of that--"A chip of the old block," he'd probably say. :-) > > marvin > To take this in a slightly different direction - does the fact that all illnesses and injuries can be healed either instantaneously or overnight (unless caused by a magical creature) mean that no one in the wizarding community is ever sick or crippled? I mean, you don't exactly hear about a flu bug taking out half of Hogwarts for a week, huh? Someone put in an earlier post today that Dumbledore was 150 years old - is this true, I don't remember reading it? If so, though, it is understandable if there are no lasting illnesses.... Becky From moongirlk at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 19:14:24 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:14:24 -0000 Subject: Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) In-Reply-To: <005001c0874f$18126a00$37397e82@shelley> Message-ID: <94siag+lvep@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10821 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Also, isn't Ginny the only other one who has seen Voldemort and lived to tell the tale? Besides Dumbledore, of course, but I think none of us are going there. LOL I think that that connection alone, once the war really starts, is something to bring them together, even if just temporarily. I've been wondering about Ginny. Not only did she live through an encounter with Voldemort (granted, not through any strenght of her own), but she also may have some strategical insights during the war. She didn't just pour her heart out to that diary - Riddle said he poured a lot back into her - maybe she knows a few things about young Tom Riddle that will help the gang against the Big Bad he's become? I think this may be how Ginny will be playing a bigger part in the next book(s), and also may afford Harry the opportunity to see her as something more than Ron's embarrassing little sister. Hmmm - this no-shipping thing is hard - I'd rather like to see them develop at the very least a relationship of mutual respect, if not something special. kimberly trying to stand her ground, or water, or something From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 26 19:29:29 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:29:29 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's predecessor In-Reply-To: <94r12m+fbr5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94sj6p+j2kj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10822 Marvin Long wrote: > Ok, who wants to theorize on the events surrounding the founding of > Hogwarts and the subsequent displacement of Mr. Slytherin himself? > It seems fairly clear that pater Slytherin went over to the dark side > and, somehow, was defeated by the combined effots of Gryffindor, > Hufflepuff, and Ravenclaw. > > It seems to me that those events must be closely related to the > status of dear Harry (uberHarry or just regular Harry). I think we > have reason to believe that even if Godric Gryffindor took a lead > role in defeating the Slytherin of yore, he didn't do it alone. So > even if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor, that's no reason to believe > that he's fated somehow to single-handedly defeat Voldemort. Based > on the structure of the houses at Hogwarts, it seems plausible to me > that Voldemort will be defeated by the combined application of the > three virtues exemplified by the houses--courage, wisdom, and loyalty- > -as was Slytherin, I'm guessing. > > So here's my theory for now...Voldemort will not be defeated LOtR > style; there's no one act that will bring him down. Rather, > defeating him will involve isolating him in some way. I'm thinking > of the idea that a cancerous tumor can be killed by cutting off its > blood supply, starving it instead of trying to kill it directly with > chemo or radiation. Without his death eaters as allies, there's not > much he can accomplish, so the first goal in fighting him should be > to prevent him from gaining allies. Dumbledore has already taken > this step by sending emissaries to the giants. I agree with you: Gryffindor probably had the support of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw during the Slytherin Split. Perhaps Draco Malfoy's prejudice against the Hufflepuffs is rooted in a Slytherin house urban legend? I do think Harry is fated to defeat Voldemort, but not single-handed. I think Dumbledore's look of triumph in GoF might be a clue to that destiny: the Harry-Voldemort psycho-physicial bond is broken. I also speculate that in the next two books we'll find out who are the Heirs of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. :-)Milz From rina at love-productions.com Fri Jan 26 19:44:37 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:44:37 -0600 Subject: Little R/H funniness Message-ID: <01a501c087d0$717f7660$37397e82@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 10823 Does anyone else have the game The Sims? I love it. I tend to put fictional characters into it (Mulder is married to me, for example ), so I added in Harry, Ron, and Hermione. Originally, I had Ron living alone and the Hs were roommates. Then Ron and Hermione met, and sparks flew. Possibly literally. I had a hell of a time getting their relationship level up, because all they did was fight and disagree. LOL (It really surprised me that their level jumped UP about 15 points after a big fight!) Anyway, so, eventually Ron proposed to Hermione, and she accepted. Cute little ceremony. But I just think it's hilarious that Ron and Hermione love to fight, and they love to play chess with each other. Ron even plays by himself, just as long as he's playing. This morning, Ron went up to Hermione, kissed her, and asked if she wanted a baby. She said yes, and little Ben was born. He's still a baby, but when he grows up, he'll have a little wizarding outfit and hat to wear!! Isn't that adorable? Rina Still freezing ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From monika at darwin.inka.de Fri Jan 26 19:47:12 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:47:12 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius In-Reply-To: <01c0879a$a2494cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> References: <01c0879a$a2494cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10824 On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:19:38 +0100, "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: Carole said: >>You have to keep in mind Sirius' mental condition at the moment Pettigrew >>threw that curse. [...] Isn't a symptom of shock a >>decrease in reaction time. Monika said: >Well, I rather imagine Black full of adrenaline in that scene. Got nothing >to support this, you know, it's just my weird imagination. I'll have to support what Carole has said, Sirius must have been in a state of (clinical) shock at that time. Think about it: his best friends had just been murdered, even though he had tried everything to save them, and he was deeply involved himself. Do you really think all he felt was some kind of rage and need for revenge? I don't think so. > Anyway, I was >merely pointing out that either McGonagall was wrong saying Pettigrew's >hopeless at dueling, or Peter learnt his tricks from Voldemort. Black was >not his normal self that night, sure, but anyway Pettigrew certainly was not >"hopeless". Maybe he wasn't hopeless, but anyone could have defeated Black that night, it wasn't a big deal given the state he was in. >Sirius, blind with fury, >reaches for his wand but his hands tremble with anger so much that he can't >take it out of his pocket. That's one POV, I have another one: his hands may have trembled, but mostly of fear. I know that it sounds weird, but I really don't think that rage and fury were Sirius' predominant feelings in this moment. He was slow to react because of the shock. >Petigrew casts his spell - not Avada Kevadra, >some other spell - huge ball of orange light moves torwards Sirius, it tears >the street open like an eartquake, killing people and speading havoc. Yes, it must have been a spell that would cause an explosion like a grenade and thus be able to kill a few people at a time. Maybe it wasn't even dark magic. And he threw it behind his back, like you would lance a grenade, away from you so it wouldn't hurt you. >It's my belief >that James was his "best friend", Remus and Peter were just "friends". I >don't see Sirius as a lad who could truly befriend somebody who >hero-worshippes him. Where do you get the idea that Remus hero-worshipped Sirius? I always thought that Remus was as important to Sirius as James was, don't forget that Remus was the reason they all became Animagi. I think he must have been *very* important to both James and Sirius to try this tremendously difficult magic. >Well, let's start with a thesis that for some reason they couldn't ask >Remus - maybe he was away, maybe Sirius or one of the Potters heard rumours >he's cooperating with Voldemort, it doesn't matter. We don't have to speculate on that one, we know from the conversations in the Shrieking Shack that Sirius suspected Remus to be Voldemorts spy and vice versa. So he wouldn't have asked Remus to switch, but he never thought that Peter could be the spy. >I agree. But I think that seemingly intelligent boy of sixteen should do >some thinking before sending a colleague to death or fate not much better >than it. Well, teenage boys aren't very sensitive most of the time, they are some sort of "hormone bombs" (sorry to all you guys, I know there are exceptions to this rule :-)) ready to go off at any time. I think you see this from your adult and female POV, and from that POV you are certainly right. But Sirius was just not mature enough to see it that way and thus didn't give it a thought. Just my 2 cents. Monika Huebner -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From editor at texas.net Fri Jan 26 19:58:06 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:58:06 -0600 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books References: <3A70ED76.B9ADEE65@texas.net> <00d001c08769$d2ba1460$82604cd5@default> Message-ID: <3A71D6CE.B03C6E5F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10825 nykteris wrote: > Well, what a coincidence... ;))) I am from Varsaw. > Two HP-books have been translated so far. PoA is going to appear soon. > The titles are: Harry Potter i kamien filozoficzny, HP i komnata tajemnic > and HP i wiezien Azkabanu. > You can buy them here (it costs 25 zl / part = 7$): > www.empik.com > www.merlin.com.pl > www.exlibris.com.pl > www.feniks.com.pl I don't read Polish--do any of these have English ordering? I'd be completely at sea. Nie movie po Polsku--czy pan movie po Angielsku? By the way, it looks like the zloty/dollar relationship has improved from the around-1000 to 1 that it was in 1990, yes? --Amanda From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Fri Jan 26 20:03:01 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:03:01 +0000 Subject: Potter prints for sale and shipper stuff Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126194927.00a802c0@hert0661.herald.ox.ac.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 10826 Hello BBC on-line reported today at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/entertainment/newsid_1138000/1138901.stm ----------- Potter sketches up for sale Original drawings for the cover of JK Rowling's latest book about Harry Potter are to go on sale next month. Preliminary sketches for Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire will be sold at the Watercolours and Drawings Fair in London. The pencil drawing used as the basis for the cover - showing the hero on a broomstick and battling a dragon - has a price tag of ?7,000. The illustration for the back of the record-breaking children's novel is also being exhibited for sale at the fair, at the Park Lane Hotel in Piccadilly. Art dealer John Rae-Smith, who is handling the sale, said: "To our knowledge this is the first time any artwork related to Harry Potter has come to the market in this country. "The phenomenal success of the Harry Potter books means there is bound to be huge interest in these drawings." ----------- Anyone got a few thousand going spare? Ebony wrote: "We've been at war long enough, my dear H/H friends. How about we throw the party to end all parties? (C'mon--you *know* we're the party crowd!) And while we're at it--why not pour out some of these theories we've been keeping in our wine closets like rare champagne?" As I am a sort of H/H shipper can I slip on board for the party? I am getting awfully lonely and want to have some fun! -- IDENTITY - See Yourself in a New Light "The greatest miracle is not that man stood on the moon; it is that God came and stood in the Earth." - Col. James Irwin From jessenigma at aol.com Fri Jan 26 20:14:16 2001 From: jessenigma at aol.com (jessenigma at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:14:16 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Illness in wizarding (was: A Few Observations) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10827 In a message dated 1/26/2001 2:02:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, rlpenar at yahoo.com writes: > does the fact that > all illnesses and injuries can be healed either instantaneously or > overnight (unless caused by a magical creature) mean that no one in > the wizarding community is ever sick or crippled? I mean, you don't > exactly hear about a flu bug taking out half of Hogwarts for a week, > huh? There was a bunch of students with colds in CoS. The Pepperup Potion that Percy made Ginny take because she was looking pale. And, of course, since it's an isolated place, wouldn't illnesses be less likely? I don't know, just thinking out loud. And hello, I'm Jessica. I've been lurking on this list for almost a week now. I'm 16 (hope that doesn't bother anyone--very few people my age read Harry Potter and the general lists tend to be very pointless arguments over very pointless stuff). I found a link to the list somewhere--I can't remember exactly where (wasn't salon.com, as I've only been there a few times). Anyway, I find this list rather fascinating. I never met a group of people that could analyze so many details to death. I must say, though, analyzing Harry Potter *is* much better than finding deep symbolism in Grapes of Wrath. Shame the English department at school would never consider these books. :) jessica From john at walton.to Fri Jan 26 20:06:09 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:06:09 +0000 Subject: Azkaban Location (was: Geography) In-Reply-To: <94sdqi+b7l2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10828 > I thought Azkaban was Azerbaijan the Azerbaijan republic, a > constituent republic of the USSR, lying between the Black and Caspian > Seas and containing the Baku oilfields. Until the early 19th c. it > formed part of Persia; pop. (est. 1987) 6,811,000; capital, Baku. LOL! No, it's quite plainly stated (though I've lent my books out and can't give a reference, but I heard it in my audiobook today) that Azkaban is on an island out to sea. We assume it's fairly close to the UK. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From john at walton.to Fri Jan 26 20:18:52 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:18:52 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: YahooGroups settings (URGENT) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10829 Fairly urgent message from your Moderator with Rock #47. The default setting on YahooGroups allows people to add you to their groups without your permission. I alone have been added to 12 groups of disrepute (if you catch my drift) since this morning. To change this setting: 1) Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/myprefs 2) Click on the [Edit] button in the "Subscription and Groups" part, and then check the top box. You can check the bottom box as well, but then you'll never get any group invitations and people will be unable to add you to groups if you're having difficulty adding yourself. I hope this helps. If anyone has any direct questions, feel free to email me directly rather than dealing with the "World Class" (only if "buttock-clenchingly poor" is a class") Yahoo Support. Cheers, --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 20:33:25 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:33:25 -0000 Subject: Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) In-Reply-To: <94siag+lvep@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94smul+g5r8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10830 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., moongirlk at y... wrote: "I've been wondering about Ginny. Not only did she live through an encounter with Voldemort (granted, not through any strenght of her > own), but she also may have some strategical insights during the war. She didn't just pour her heart out to that diary - Riddle said he poured a lot back into her - maybe she knows a few things about young Tom Riddle that will help the gang against the Big Bad he's become?" This is a fresh idea. What has she got in the way of insight even she might not be aware of? and there is probably some little bond between her and Riddle/Voldemort, as there is between V. and Harry. Kimberly:" I think this may be how Ginny will be playing a bigger part in the next book(s), and also may afford Harry the opportunity to see her as something more than Ron's embarrassing little sister. Hmmm - this no-shipping thing is hard - I'd rather like to see them develop at the very least a relationship of mutual respect, if not something special." You and I are on the very small H/G ship, oppressed and alone, being pelted by pennies and beaten with clubs of ebony, and patronized because we think One Big Happy Weasley Family isn't such a bad thing after all. It's true we haven't had much to go on, and certainly Ginny will have to get over her hero-worship of Harry for them to develop anything real. Shared experience will do a lot to resolve that, I hope, and then maybe we'll see something better than her being shipped off to a creep like Draco. From tanith at realmofshadow.com Fri Jan 26 20:40:19 2001 From: tanith at realmofshadow.com (Tanith) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:40:19 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harry's feelings/thoughts about parents In-Reply-To: <033a01c087bb$8660d160$a22b07d5@oemcomputer> References: <94saoc+6tmo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126152450.009efec0@mail.realmofshadow.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10831 > >That's what I missed in the conversations between Harry and Remus. R was >reluctant to confess that he and James were friends at Hogwarts, but after >he said that I always wondered why Harry never asked. At least after Lupin >learned what Harry heard when the Dementors advanced - and he was obviously >quite shaken by it, too - I thought that *now* was the time to offer >comfort, to tell Harry more about his parents. The voices of their struggle >with death is the most vivid expression of them he has, and that's not a >pretty thought. It also would have been a good method to weaken the scenes >the Dementors ticked off in Harrys head. > >What also struck me strange about Harry and the thoughts he has about his >parents was the wand scene in GoF. I realized that the order was wrong, but >that didn't really bother me. What bothered me most was that the person >Harry had thought of most this evening was James - and we never were told >about this. Not a tiny mention of Harrys feelings and thoughts. And then >James drops out, says "You're mum is coming, too" and that was it. Lily >talks to Harry (it's a typical motherly scene and I love it, really - >another bad thing about the order change, they deprived Lily of the first >decent mention she had), but he doesn't seem to moved by that, either. >Somehow I thought it would trigger a reaction, despite the danger and >strress he is in. New to the list and thought I'd start with a Hello! :) Because he was orphaned at such a young age, all he knows about his parents is here say. He knows that James was killed, and Lily died to save him. I'm sure he has very conflicted emotins! Theres guilt, feeling that it was because of him that his parents were killed cannot be easy to deal with. Fear that perhaps he hasn't grown up they way his parents wanted him to. Resentment that they didn't try hard enough to fight Voldy and died as a result leaving him in a miserable life with the Dursley's. Imagine a 14 year old boy growing up not knowing a thing about his parents for 10 years (and unable to remember before that). He undoubtedly loves them, but he may scared to find out something that will confirm his negative feelings. Tanith ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`??? There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve foot mountain troll is one of them. [Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone] ??,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 26 20:38:21 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:38:21 -0000 Subject: killing curses In-Reply-To: <94s6f1+s7li@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94sn7t+oejs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10832 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > In those moments at the end of PoA that Harry is seriously on the > verge of killing Sirius: how would he have done it? Is there some > curse he already knows that will kill someone? > > Amy Z I don't think Harry knew any killing spells at that point. But maybe Harry was going to kill him the non-magical way, such as beating him to death. Milz From ara_kel at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 20:38:26 2001 From: ara_kel at yahoo.com (ara_kel at yahoo.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:38:26 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <94r8d5+om7n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94sn82+miou@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10833 > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > Penny > Carole > Lori > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > Scott > Heather > Heidi > > I do believe there's more of you out there. > I'm here! I want a spot on the ship too! Sarah From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 20:40:18 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:40:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Row, Row, Row your Boat. . . Message-ID: <20010126204018.69079.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10834 R/H: "It just makes sense". Yeah, that's a good motto. Right up there with "Read Goblet of Fire". As for nautical terms, how about this?- Those H/H shippers don't know a crowjeck from a scuttlebut. ::waves:: Thank you, thank you, no applause, just throw money! Okay, okay, I'll admit it: I have a dictionary of sea terms here. ::hangs head:: As for the whole Harry/Hermione thing- I think those two have a very special bond in a brother-sister way; Harry has no real family, and (as far as we know) Hermy is an only child. Ron has his big family who openly welomes the other two, but they have a special relationship. Sorta that whole Luke/Leia thing. . . Ginny Love ---------------------------------------------- "We are the knights who say 'Ni!', keepers of the sacred words-Ni, Ping, and Neewhomp!" "So we are all alone here, with nothing to do but eat, sleep, dress, undress and knit exciting underwear. . ." "Death awaits thee! Death with big, nasty pointy things!" -Monty Python and The Holy Grail __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 20:48:32 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:48:32 -0000 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD (was re: marvin's fanfic) In-Reply-To: <94ho84+51gd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94snr0+40pu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10835 > Jim Ferer (I think) and Jim Flanagan have written both essay > posts and fanfics to describe this phenomenon. As I stated > before, I agree strongly with them. > > I also believe that not only would Harry be affected, I think that > his > entire generation would be traumatized to a certain degree. I > tend to think of the Marauders as part of the "Lost Generation"... > we don't know many of them in canon, but from what we've seen, > V. didn't just play pattycake the last time around. > > Weren't significant PTSD trends noted in Europe between the > world wars and Japan post-Hiroshima/Nagasaki? Holocaust > survivors also fall into this category (I'm wondering if mass > post-WWI and Great Depression-induced PTSD aided the rise of > fascism in Germany)... as do survivors of any genocide. Last > semester, I had the privilege of reviewing a volume of > literacy/technology case studies in which two participants were > refugees from Somalia and Cambodia. > > In my fic, Angelina Johnson is one of many thousands wounded > in the coming war. She definitely had to deal with PTSD, and > she wasn't even on the main front... how much more, then, would > Neville? Or Ron? Or Hermione? This is why I think close > interpersonal relationships (never mind shipping for the > moment) would inevitably form amongst students who were at > Hogwarts in the nineties under Dumbledore, who at this point is > the only ultra-prominent wizard who believes that V is back. It's a > matter of empathy... you can only understand what someone has > gone through on a fundamental level if you've walked in their > shoes for a mile or two. > > I also agree with Jim Ferer's premise that if Voldemort is > defeated, the wizarding world (if not consumed) would have to > change. Name a major Muggle war that did not alter human life > in some way... :::sounds of crickets chirping::: > > As for Harry, *if* he can defeat Voldemort *without* getting killed > and *without* destroying the wizarding world and *without* > getting completely corrupted by a necessary close proximity to > pure, unadulterated evil... not only would he have post-traumatic > stress disorder to deal with... he *would* be regarded as a > messiah figure. The question then would be, how would he deal > with that can of worms? > > I'm still trying to form my opinions on that issue. Thoughts? > > --Ebony AKA AngieJ Ebony, I think you're going a bit too far in "giving" all of them PTSD. After all, most people who have fought in wars do not get PTSD. As far as I know (which is not much), PTSD has a close connection to helplessness, situations when you *cannot* fight (for objective or subjective reasons, or for both). I read somewhere, for instance, that soldiers tend to get PTSD in relation to their sense of being abandoned by their command. My point in all this is that Harry probably will not suffer from PTSD. I doubt that he will ever go through a more horrible experience than the graveyard scene. And according to the canon he has emotionally survived this. I also disagree that most of his peers will suffer from PTSD. With all due respect to Voldemort's power of evil, it was not and will not be the same situation as the Holocaust or other planned genocides. The psychological effects on those involved are different, IMO. Harry's peers will find themselves involved in a *war*, where they can fight and have the power to resist and make a difference. Genocide occurs precisely because the victims are so powerless (relatively) that they don't really have the option to resist. Thats not to say that some individuals will not go through terrible ordeals (like the Longbottoms) and suffer PTSD as a consequence. We should remember, however, that generally speaking people are tough and can survive very difficult times without breaking up emotionally (which is what I think PTSD is basically). Naama From sinead at bu.edu Fri Jan 26 20:52:09 2001 From: sinead at bu.edu (Sinead) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:52:09 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <94sn82+miou@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94so1p+l5qi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10836 > > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > > > Penny > > Carole > > Lori > > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > > Scott > > Heather > > Heidi Add me to the list ^_^ If anyone has any theories concerning H/H, I'd gladly chat about it in the room on sunday... if there is a room... do you guys go in the club chat or the group chat? Sinead From tanith at realmofshadow.com Fri Jan 26 21:07:02 2001 From: tanith at realmofshadow.com (Tanith) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:07:02 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Burning (no, not a pun) Weasley Questions (kinda long) In-Reply-To: <94qumr+qi33@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126154303.009f19a0@mail.realmofshadow.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10837 At 11:33 PM 1/25/01, you wrote: >(Note: I added the 'non-pun' thing since fire/flaming/burning is >usually associated with Weasley... just realized as I typed it. Also, >all quotes are the main idea, not the actual, verbatim, in-the-book >quote.) ;) Not to mention the witch burning reference. >MG'S BURNING WEASLEY QUESTIONS: If anyone can help/answer, I'd love >it... these are questions I've been wondering about forever... > >1. Is Charlie verifiably the younger of the notorious Bill and >Charlie? Because, if Bill were the younger of the two eldest >Weasleys, >a lot more things would make sense in canon, such as: > > a) Bill's "I haven't seen this place in five years" in GoF. >Besides the Triwizard Tournament, I don't recall any real reason to >return to Hogwarts after graduation except to become a professor. He could have returned to watch Charlie in a Quidditch match, Or for Charlie's graduation! > b) Ginny's "I've been looking forward to coming... since Bill >came" in CoS. IF Bill had graduated five years before GoF (by my >math, >feel free to correct me, please!), that would make Ginny around 8 >years old when Bill graduates Hogwarts-- old enough to remember his >attending. Could be that her first memory of Hogwarts is Bill visiting for a quidditch match and telling her all about it? > c) The difference in age of the Weasley kids. By my math... >(once >again, IF Bill graduated 5 years before GoF) Charlie would be 5 years >older than Bill, Bill 4 years older than Percy, and so on. Well we know for a fact that by the fourth book: Ginny is 13 Ron is 14 Fred & George are 16 Percy is 18 In PoA chapter 1 the article in the Daily Prophet quotes Arthur as saying Bill is the eldest son. There are quite a few questions about the ages of Arthur and Molly though (or at least Molly) In GoF she is curious about the whomping willow since it planted after she left school. Which means that she left before James and Lilly attended Hogwarts [PoA]. She also fondly recalls the gamekeeper Ogg which would mean she attended Hogwarts before Hagrid was expelled [CoS] which was more than 50 years ago [CoS]. Given the life span of wizards, Molly could be considerably older than we think and there could be quite a large age gap between Bill and Charlie... Just some thoughts ;) I'm just as confuzzled as you! Tanith ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`??? There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve foot mountain troll is one of them. [Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone] ??,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Fri Jan 26 21:05:27 2001 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:05:27 -0000 Subject: One Big, Happy Weasley Family (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) In-Reply-To: <94smul+g5r8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94soqn+6gns@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10838 > You and I are on the very small H/G ship, oppressed and alone, being > pelted by pennies and beaten with clubs of ebony, and patronized > because we think One Big Happy Weasley Family isn't such a bad thing > after all. It's true we haven't had much to go on, and certainly > Ginny will have to get over her hero-worship of Harry for them to > develop anything real. Shared experience will do a lot to resolve > that, I hope, and then maybe we'll see something better than her being > shipped off to a creep like Draco. One Big Happy Weasley Family isn't a bad idea. I actually like it, since the Weasleys have so much love for Harry and Hermione anyway. I can imagine something like the family-dinner scene in the beginning of GoF, with Angelina sitting by Fred (you knew *that* was coming, didn't you?) and Ginny sitting by Harry and Hermione by Ron and... ah. After all the books' unhappiness, I think that would be in order for everyone: a great big Weasley dinner... with everyone present. Minnesota Girlie, being swept off with happy images _______________________________________ "Ron/Hermione. It just makes sense." -------------------------------- From tanith at realmofshadow.com Fri Jan 26 21:19:14 2001 From: tanith at realmofshadow.com (Tanith) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:19:14 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Voldemort's predecessor In-Reply-To: <94sj6p+j2kj@eGroups.com> References: <94r12m+fbr5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126161453.009f9720@mail.realmofshadow.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10839 >I do think Harry is fated to defeat Voldemort, but not single-handed. >I think Dumbledore's look of triumph in GoF might be a clue to that >destiny: the Harry-Voldemort psycho-physicial bond is broken. I also >speculate that in the next two books we'll find out who are the Heirs >of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. I agree! Though I think Voldy may be responsible for his own undoing! In his arrogance and haste he has made grave errors in the past (not forseeing the ancient and powerful magic that Lily used to protect Harry). I think the key is in the spell.... Bone of the father unknowingly given: Note the spell does not say bone of "my" father. "The father" may not necesarilly mean a parent, it could mean a supreme being (God is frequently referred to as the father in the bible) or a significant historical figure as in the father of modern medicine. Also V's father is a muggle will this make a difference? Flesh of the servant willingly given: If the above follows, than the flesh of the servant would be the flesh of the one that serves the father....so it would need to be V's flesh.... Blood of the enemy forcibly taken: First, Harry's blood was not forcibly taken...unwillingly given, yes...but forcibly taken? He had no opportunity to stuggle as he was tied tightly to the tombstone, Pettigrew simply sliced Harry's arm and drew blood, he did not take it using force... It's quite possible that V in his haste misinterpreted the spell. Although it worked for him physically, the implications of using the wrong flesh, blood and bone may have a very interesting effect on his future powers! ;) Tanith ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`??? There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve foot mountain troll is one of them. [Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone] ??,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From naama_gat at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 21:24:29 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:24:29 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's Strategy (was Loss of/Harry's Special Powers) In-Reply-To: <94hpea+rn8l@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94spud+8ain@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10840 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., ebonyink at h... wrote: > Penny wrote: > > > > I definitely agree with Lori and others that there must be > more to infant Harry's defeat of Lord V than just Lily's sacrifice & > layer of protection. He and his Death Eaters waged a long & > seemingly costly war against both the wizarding & muggle > populations. It hardly seems likely to me that not one > > > single person other than Lily Potter tried to save or died to > save another human being during that war. I think there's > definitely something special about Harry. I don't think we'll know > it all though until after Book 7. > > > > > And Kimberly wrote: > > I've been thinking long and hard about this since it was pointed > out > to me that while Lily's sacrifice may have protected Harry > from death, > it wasn't what caused Voldemort to loose his > power. > > > You're right. The one problem is that we don't know *what* Lily's > powers were. We do know now that Lily needn't to have died. > (I've read theories and fanfics ranging from the plausible (she > wasn't a direct descendant of Gryffindor) to the ridiculous > (Muggle-born Lily was a secret Death Eater!). > > I thnk that the combination of her sacrifice *along with* > something innate in baby Harry caused his protection and V's > downfall. What I'm wondering is that if all of our "There's > Something About Harry" inklings prove correct--if he could have > protected his parents and completely Voldemort if he was fully > matured. > I'm not sure that Voldemort's loss of power needs to be attributed to some special power Harry has (although I do think that Harry *is* "powerfully magic"). We know that Lily's sacrifice was what saved Harry's life. So what happened was that some mysterious magic that her sacrifice generated deflected the curse Voldemort directed at Harry. The simplest theory then would be that the curse rebounded on (to?) Voldemort. He would have died of his own curse if it wasn't for his immortality spells. Instead he was reduced to living death. Naama From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 21:27:40 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:27:40 -0000 Subject: Personality Test - Animagi Filk - Japanese Fan Art - James and Lily - Amulets In-Reply-To: <3A7131BC.7025470C@wicca.net> Message-ID: <94sq4c+5v4q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10841 Catlady wrote: > Someone already commented that James was Chaser, not Seeker. I have a > problem with JKR having said that. She firmly established how much > Harry resembles James physically, and she had Wood state that Harry is > the right build for a Seeker, so therefore James would also have been > the right build for a Seeker. That was me, and I continue to maintain that there are lots of "right builds," not to mention lots of people who excel at a sport or a position despite having a very atypical build for that sport or position. I won't bore you with a list; if you're a fan of any sport you can think of half a dozen examples. Also, there is a problem with the syllogism: James has the right build for a Seeker Therefore James does not have the right build for a Chaser. And a problem also with the syllogism: Harry and James are very alike physically Therefore James was also small and skinny during his school years. Also, women apparently make fine Chasers, so why not men who are on the short side? Did I say all this in an earlier post or did I just plan to? >The fans were all sure that James was a > Seeker and were all wrong. The fans are all sure that James was a big > star at Quidditch: could we be wrong about that, too? Was he good enough > to get on the House team (and thus further excite Snape's envious > hostility) but not good enough to turn pro, not even good enough to be Good point. We do know that Lupin guesses Snape was jealous of James's Quidditch talents (PA, US ed. 357), which suggests that James was probably on the house team and probably pretty good. McGonagall says "he was an excellent Quidditch player" (SS 152) which suggests the same. And we know that Harry "flies as well as his father"--but if I'm going to pay attention to logic I have to say that that leaves a lot of room for Harry to play BETTER than James. We don't even know how good Harry is, though it seems likely he is one of the best players Hogwarts has seen for a long time. That doesn't mean he can go pro, but the wizarding world is small so I'd say he has a much better shot at it than the equivalent U.S. high school athlete (of whom even the extremely talented have a thousands-to-one chance of making it into the pros, and a smaller chance still of staying there more than a season). Fans tend to be a little more cliched in their assumptions than JKR herself. If Harry's very good at Quidditch, he must be THE NEXT SEEKER FOR ENGLAND! If Harry resembles his father, he must look and act JUST LIKE HIM! If two people like each other in 4th year/9th grade, they must GET MARRIED! Uh-oh, getting into dangerous territory there, and possibly doing hull damage to my own R/H ship . . . But siriusly, I really appreciate JKR for all the completely believable monkey wrenches she likes to throw into our assumptions. Just look at James himself. Head boy, excellent wizard--uh oh, sounds like Percy, doesn't he? But his regard for rules is a little, ah, rusty, so there goes that stereotype. Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------- If only the hat had mentioned a house for people who felt a bit queasy, that would have been the one for him. --HP and the Philosopher's Stone ---------------------------------------------------------- From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 21:28:09 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 13:28:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: Sirius-::Sigh:: Message-ID: <20010126212809.99324.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10842 Carole scribed: > .I saw a man who was the spitting image of Sirius at >the mall the other night, right down to a black >leather jacket Weird! Just yesterday I was out shopping and saw two men walking along together who I swear on a stack of bibles were Sirius and Lupin! It was the creepiest thing! Hmmm. Maybe it's a conspiracy-Outlawed Wizards are now loitering around Muggle shopping centers? Not that I have a problem with that, of course. Ow! Break me off a piece of that! ::runs off snickering:: Ginny Love ------------------------------------------------ "We are the knights who say 'Ni!', keepers of the sacred words-Ni, Ping, and Neewhomp!" "So we just live here alone, with nothing to do but eat, sleep, dress, undress, and knit exciting underwear. . ." "Death awaits thee! Death with big, pointy things!" --Monty Python and The Holy Grail __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 26 21:31:52 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:31:52 -0000 Subject: Burning (no, not a pun) Weasley Questions (kinda long) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126154303.009f19a0@mail.realmofshadow.com> Message-ID: <94sqc8+do27@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10843 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Tanith wrote: > There are quite a few questions about the ages of Arthur and Molly though > (or at least Molly) In GoF she is curious about the whomping willow since > it planted after she left school. Which means that she left before James > and Lilly attended Hogwarts [PoA]. She also fondly recalls the gamekeeper > Ogg which would mean she attended Hogwarts before Hagrid was expelled [CoS] > which was more than 50 years ago [CoS]. > > Given the life span of wizards, Molly could be considerably older than we > think and there could be quite a large age gap between Bill and Charlie... > > Just some thoughts ;) I'm just as confuzzled as you! Or Hagrid could have been an Assistant Gamekeeper during Ogg's time. Hagrid was 13 or 14 when he was expelled. Dumbledore, by Hagrid's admission, lobbied to keep him on as Gamekeeper. Though Dumbledore has great confidence in Hagrid, I don't think he was confident enough to let Hagrid be Gamekeeper without proper training. Milz From aiz24 at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 21:36:01 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:36:01 -0000 Subject: Haihaiku Message-ID: <94sqk1+djdo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10844 The term haiku means "amusement sentence," according to my American Heritage Dictionary, so I figure a spoof haiku is a haihaiku. I'm afraid you can expect more of these from me. Here are my first 5 attempts: Full moon - West Tower A hippogriff's shadow soars No Merlin for Snape The life of a hat-- All year long I think up songs for a one night stand All that pain for naught, Nick. One more blow and you'd be playing head polo By this lake, even in midwinter, you'll want some Skeeter repellent Draco in leather- ahhh- but what's his sexual orientation? Amy Z ---------------------------------------------- "Cool, sir!" said Dean Thomas in amazement. "Thank you, Dean," said Professor Lupin, putting his wand away again. -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------------- From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Jan 26 21:35:36 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:35:36 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Post-Hogwarts PTSD (was re: marvin's fanfic) Message-ID: <7b.f747040.27a347a8@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10845 In a message dated 1/26/2001 2:51:48 PM Central Standard Time, naama_gat at hotmail.com writes: > My point in all this is that Harry probably will not suffer from > PTSD. I doubt that he will ever go through a more horrible experience > than the graveyard scene. And according to the canon he has > emotionally survived this. > 1) how about 11 years with the Dursleys? 2) We don't know yet how he's doing post-graveyard in the cannon. He's only had a very short time at the end of GoF to deal with that situation. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From tanith at realmofshadow.com Fri Jan 26 21:43:50 2001 From: tanith at realmofshadow.com (Tanith) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:43:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Burning (no, not a pun) Weasley Questions (kinda long) In-Reply-To: <94sqc8+do27@eGroups.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126154303.009f19a0@mail.realmofshadow.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126164207.009e4d00@mail.realmofshadow.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10846 > >Or Hagrid could have been an Assistant Gamekeeper during Ogg's time. >Hagrid was 13 or 14 when he was expelled. Dumbledore, by Hagrid's >admission, lobbied to keep him on as Gamekeeper. Though Dumbledore has >great confidence in Hagrid, I don't think he was confident enough to >let Hagrid be Gamekeeper without proper training. Ahhh good point! Being expelled in his 3rd year he probably never completed his care of magical creatures class ;) Tanith (whos running reaaly fast to catch up with all her theories) ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`??? There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve foot mountain troll is one of them. [Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone] ??,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 21:39:15 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:39:15 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's ultimate mistake In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126161453.009f9720@mail.realmofshadow.com> Message-ID: <94sqq3+7olm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10847 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Tanith wrote: Tanith:"I think the key is in the spell.... Bone of the father unknowingly given: Note the spell does not say bone of "my" father. "The father" may not necesarilly mean a parent, it could mean a supreme being (God is frequently referred to as the father in the bible) or a significant historical figure as in the father of modern medicine. Also V's father is a muggle will this make a difference?" I don't think so. the dust came from Tom Riddle the father's grave into the cauldron, so it seems clear the intent and the result matched. "Flesh of the servant willingly given: If the above follows, than the flesh of the servant would be the flesh of the one that serves the father....so it would need to be V's flesh...." Again, we're faced with the fact that the flesh that did go in the pot worked. "Blood of the enemy forcibly taken: First, Harry's blood was not forcibly taken...unwillingly given, yes...but forcibly taken? He had no opportunity to stuggle as he was tied tightly to the tombstone, Pettigrew simply sliced Harry's arm and drew blood, he did not take it using force..." If I tied you to a tombstone and stuck you with a dagger to bleed you, most people would interpret that as "forceful." I sure would. But you're right, in principle. All the great criminals make at least one fatal mistake, and taking Harry's blood was Voldemort's. He has the seeds of his own destruction in him. What I fear is that Harry may have to give his life to take Voldemort's, or at least lose his magical powers. > > It's quite possible that V in his haste misinterpreted the spell. Although > it worked for him physically, the implications of using the wrong flesh, > blood and bone may have a very interesting effect on his future powers! ;) > > > > Tanith > > ???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`??? > There are some things you can't share without ending > up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve foot > mountain troll is one of them. > [Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone] > ??,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,? > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Jan 26 21:38:04 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:38:04 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) Message-ID: <44.ace6c3d.27a3483c@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10848 In a message dated 1/26/2001 3:16:24 PM Central Standard Time, jferer at yahoo.com writes: > Ginny will have to get over her hero-worship of Harry for them to > Just a question -- is Ginny actually shown hero-worshipping Harry after CoS? I can't remember it being mentioned at all. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Fri Jan 26 21:40:28 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:40:28 -0000 Subject: Voldemort's predecessor In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20010126161453.009f9720@mail.realmofshadow.com> Message-ID: <94sqsc+2bdq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10849 Tanith wrote: > It's quite possible that V in his haste misinterpreted the spell. Although > it worked for him physically, the implications of using the wrong flesh, > blood and bone may have a very interesting effect on his future powers! ;) Voldy's not a very detail-oriented villian. A bit on the careless side imo. But that only makes me think he's has a big ego. That could be his undoing. Milz From jferer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 21:44:35 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:44:35 -0000 Subject: Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) In-Reply-To: <44.ace6c3d.27a3483c@aol.com> Message-ID: <94sr43+10271@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10850 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > In a message dated 1/26/2001 3:16:24 PM Central Standard Time, > jferer at y... writes: Ginny will have to get over her hero-worship of Harry for them to Just a question -- is Ginny actually shown hero-worshipping Harry after CoS? I can't remember it being mentioned at all." Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* I'm not sure, either, but I want to see something in canon that shows me she is over that. We haven't heard much about Ginny lately. I am one of the small number of H/G'ers, though I realize there isn't much to go on. From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 21:43:58 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:43:58 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] FITD?! (Was Re: The Ship Hits the Fan) References: <94qv79+481o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A71EF9D.3F9423DD@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10851 Hi -- Minnesota Girlie wrote: > Okay... I know FITD stands for "Farmer in the Dell," which seems to be > a favorite H/H theory. Can someone point me to the post(s) explaining > this theory? Thanks so much. In brief, the FITD theory holds: Ron likes Hermione Hermione likes Harry Harry likes either no one or someone outside the Trio (like Cho in GoF) Ergo ... R/H is not possible because Hermione doesn't return Ron's obvious feelings. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 21:42:25 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:42:25 -0600 Subject: One Big, Happy Weasley Family References: <94soqn+6gns@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A71EF41.A110BC84@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10852 Hi -- Taking advantage of the fact that painkillers are working momentarily to respond to a few things (I've got the flu -- ugh!).... "One Big Happy Weasley Family" -- I really am a hopeless romantic in alot of ways, but this possibility is too sappy even for me. Sorry, but it just seems entirely too cliche for JKR. I can't imagine the story that she's been itching to write for over 10 yrs would really end on such a "polly-anna" note. Not to mention the fact that Hermione would have to like Ron romantically (which I think is unlikely) and Ginny would actually have to develop a backbone. I don't disagree with the notion that Ginny might be fleshed out more in coming books ... but, let's face it, despite all the predictions to the contrary, she remained very much a sidelines character in GoF. And ... if the Weasleys are Harry's "surrogate family," then wouldn't he be even more inclined to regard Ginny as a *sister* rather than a potential romantic mate? Then again, I've never understood why people are so quick to say that H & H have a "sibling-like" relationship but that R & H don't. All that bickering? Sounds like siblings to me! And, it's not just sweet "oh, isn't that cute" spats -- Harry took refuge in the owlery at least once in GoF because the R/H sniping was too unpleasant to be around. Doesn't sound like a marriage made in heaven to *me*! Kathy said: > This was my reaction when I read about the "Harry Problem"--what problem? > I can see him feeling a little weird initially, but it doesn't ever seem to > bother him when Hermione and Ron do their own thing now, and they do spend > quite a bit of time together away from him as it is. The only time I can > think of that it bothered him was the first Hogsmead trip, and that was > only because he couldn't go to the village. > Ron & Hermione attend Quidditch matches together (when they're speaking to one another that is). But, that's obvious because Harry is participating. I can't agree without further evidence that Ron & Hermione spend "quite a bit" of time together away from Harry as is. I frankly don't see how it's possible to argue that a H/H romance *would* affect Trio dynamics but a R/H romance *would not* have any effect on the Trio. That really undercuts the notion that Harry needs his friends, doesn't it? > As one R/H-er said to me recently, "Sometimes I wonder if they're even reading > the same books we are!" But it keeps things lively anyway! > My response would be "apparently not" (reading the same books that is)! Seriously, I think we're reading the same books, but the interpretations are just vastly different. I'm very interested that Ebony has some theories that suggest that H/H'ers view the canon differently than R/H'ers in a variety of respects, not just shipping. I'm also interested in DrMM's comparison of Arthur/Ron & Molly/Hermione. Personally, I can't imagine very many similarities between Molly & Hermione, but I'll be quite interested to hear her thoughts. Ebony said: > We've been at war long enough, my dear H/H friends. How about we > throw the party to end all parties? (C'mon--you *know* we're the > party crowd!) And while we're at it--why not pour out some of these > theories we've been keeping in our wine closets like rare champagne? > (Unless we're still aging them properly, of course. If that is the > case, we shall wait for a more special occasion.) > Oh .... I'd let 'em age a bit more. But, I shan't object if you want to uncork a few of them, Eb! Now, it appears to me that the Good Ship R/H got lots of vocal recruits in the last 48 hrs or so. Can we call a cessation to the whole notion that this list is loudly & vehmently pro-H/H? Enough already! You guys have plenty of mates aboard -- that much is evident. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 21:48:15 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:48:15 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) References: <44.ace6c3d.27a3483c@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A71F09F.59DCD091@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10853 Hi -- mlleelizabeth at aol.com wrote: > Just a question -- is Ginny actually shown hero-worshipping Harry after CoS? > I can't remember it being mentioned at all. POA -- one of the early chapters. Ginny was more "heartily embarassed" at seeing Harry than usual, probably because he'd saved her life that previous year and she'd always been very taken with Harry. She's not shown much at all in eithe r PoA or GoF. She may not be a clear hero-worshipper still, but she's very much a sidelines figure. I could argue that we know more about Bill & Charlie than we do about Ginny. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 21:55:16 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:55:16 -0600 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD References: <94snr0+40pu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A71F244.898D66B8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10854 Hi -- naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote: > After all, most people who have fought in wars do not get PTSD. I could be wrong, but I think that might be a bit of a generalization. I think I've read something somewhere that a majority of Vietnam vets suffered some degree of PTSD at some point in their lives. > My point in all this is that Harry probably will not suffer from PTSD. > I doubt that he will ever go through a more horrible experience than > the graveyard scene. And according to the canon he has > emotionally survived this. If the books are only going to get darker (per JKR), how do you figure that Harry has already lived through the worst of it? I personally didn't think he'd have faced what he did in GoF (I was shocked that Voldemort was back in full-force in the *4th* book -- didn't expect it until the 6th or even 7th book myself). But, he *is* back, and I don't think the coming "War" is going to be a cakewalk for anyone involved. I don't think poor Harry has gone through the worst of it by any means. > We should remember, however, that generally speaking people are tough > and can survive very difficult times without breaking up emotionally > (which is what I think PTSD is basically). I'm sure Carole or Monika or someone else more knowledgeable about PTSD can speak to this more than I can .... but my personal take is that you're viewing PTSD as some sort of personal weakness that could be overcome with enough strength of character. I don't think this is necessarily true, but I admittedly am not too knowledgeable about this topic. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 22:01:51 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:01:51 -0600 Subject: Harry's feelings/thoughts about parents References: <94saoc+6tmo@eGroups.com> <033a01c087bb$8660d160$a22b07d5@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A71F3CF.80E548C8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10855 Hi -- Dinah wrote: > > We know > the photos mean a great deal to him--does he ever want to talk > to > > these old school friends of his parents and ask what they were like? > > Amy Z > > That's what I missed in the conversations between Harry and Remus. R was > reluctant to confess that he and James were friends at Hogwarts, but after > he said that I always wondered why Harry never asked. At least after Lupin > learned what Harry heard when the Dementors advanced - and he was obviously > quite shaken by it, too - I thought that *now* was the time to offer > comfort, to tell Harry more about his parents. The voices of their struggle > with death is the most vivid expression of them he has, and that's not a > pretty thought. It also would have been a good method to weaken the scenes > the Dementors ticked off in Harrys head. I think this is all merely plot device. Along the same lines of why Harry can't live with Sirius. If he did, he (and we, the readers) would learn a whole lot more about the past than JKR is ready to reveal. > What also struck me strange about Harry and the thoughts he has about his > parents was the wand scene in GoF. I realized that the order was wrong, but > that didn't really bother me. What bothered me most was that the person Harry > had thought of most this evening was James - and we never were told about > this. Not a tiny mention of Harrys feelings and thoughts. Oh, I beg to differ! Voldemort taunts Harry with how his father died "upright and proud." When he then turns around and teases Harry for playing "hide & seek" behind a tombstone, Harry suddenly thinks that he doesn't want to die like a child crouching & playing hide & seek. He wants to die upright & defending himself as his father did. He was, in my mind, clearly making a connection that he wants to be less like a child & more like his father (it seems a rather natural progression for an adolescent male to experience in fact). What we don't have is any indication that Harry had *any* thoughts of his mother, and so the corrected Wand order passage reads strangely (to me anyway). Penny From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Fri Jan 26 22:06:52 2001 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 26 Jan 2001 22:06:52 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980546812.4126.15676.s16@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10856 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /+merger.txt Uploaded by : john at walton.to Description : HPforGrownups' tips and tricks on surviving the eGroups/YahooGroups Merger You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/%2Bmerger.txt To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, john at walton.to Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From pbnesbit at msn.com Fri Jan 26 22:06:37 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:06:37 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <94so1p+l5qi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ssdd+ka4h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10857 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Sinead" wrote: > > > > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > > > > > Penny > > > Carole > > > Lori > > > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > > > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > > > Scott > > > Heather > > > Heidi > > > > Add me to the list ^_^ > > If anyone has any theories concerning H/H, I'd gladly chat about it in > the room on sunday... if there is a room... do you guys go in the club > chat or the group chat? > > Sinead > > Add me to the list too. (although I am definately a Remus/Me shipper as well. And there's just something about big, furry black dogs that melts my heart!) Parker aka harpdreamer From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 26 22:17:16 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:17:16 -0500 Subject: Bond With Your Wand (filk) References: <980542352.16252.53261.l9@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <001001c087e5$c8c3a760$3fc54b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 10858 Bond With Your Wand (from HP/SS, Ch. 5) (To the tune of Put Your Hand in the Hand) (The Scene: Diagon Alley, in front of Ollivanders, "Makers of Fine Wands since 382 B.C." Enter HARRY and HAGRID, both carrying a large number of shopping bags] HAGRID Harry's now a wizard, having reached the age of 11 We've been shopping in the Alley ever since the clock struck seven But we've one more stop, and it's at a shop of which I'm very fond It's the shop of Ollivander, who's the maker of the finest wands [They enter Ollivanders. The shelves of the tiny store are filled with countless boxes, each one containing a wand. Behind is the counter is MR. OLLIVANDER, who, as if expecting their arrival, rises to greet them) HARRY & HAGRID Get your wand from the hand of the grand Mister Ollivander (Dozens of the boxes fly off the shelf and land in front of Harry, who takes each wand out of its box, and waves it in succession, without effect. Mr. Ollivander snatches each one back as soon as it's clear that the wand didn't "click" with Harry) MR. OLLIVANDER Find a wand to respond to as all of my stock you're shown Each wand's unique and the one you seek will be yours and yours alone ALL Form a bond with a wand, and that wand will choose you for its own MR. OLLIVANDER I create a wand, in order to ensure a clean mix, With unicorn hair, dragon strings and the feathers off a phoenix. (Harry, to the delight of all, creates a stream of red and gold sparks when he waves one particular wand. OLLIVANDER examines at its box) That wand you found is the best by far, but isn't this bizarre? It's the brother of the wand that gave to you your famous scar HAGRID AND HARRY Get your wand from the hand of the grand Mister Ollivander HARRY AND MR. OLLIVANDER Get your wand at the store once patronized by Voldemort MR. OLLIVANDER Your wand shares its core with Voldemort's HARRY What'll happen if they go to war? MR. OLLIVANDER I'd love to tell you more, but you'll have to wait until Book Four ALL (singing and clapping) You've a wand from the hand of the grand Mister Ollivander You found a wand to respond to that can never be outshone That wand's unique, and good technique will make it yours and yours alone Form a bond with your wand, for that wand has chose you for its own Oh yeah! - CMC From jenP_97 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 22:13:49 2001 From: jenP_97 at yahoo.com (Jennifer Piersol) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:13:49 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: YahooGroups settings (URGENT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94ssqt+mfn5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10859 John wrote: > Fairly urgent message from your Moderator with Rock #47. > > The default setting on YahooGroups allows people to add you to > their groups without your permission. I alone have been added to > 12 groups of disrepute (if you catch my drift) since this morning. > To change this setting: > Let me step up and say "Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!" I can't imagine why Yahoo would have that setting be the DEFAULT! What an oversight. Again, thank you, John, for giving us that warning! Jen (who caught the drift, and went to go change her settings right away) From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 22:11:20 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:11:20 -0600 Subject: Getting Shippy With It References: <005001c0874f$18126a00$37397e82@shelley> Message-ID: <3A71F608.177BCCE1@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10860 Hi -- Rina Stewart wrote: > Also, isn't Ginny the only other one who has seen Voldemort and lived to tell the tale? Well, in a manner of speaking. She says the last thing she remembered before passing out was Tom Riddle coming out of the diary. So, her glimpse of him was very brief indeed. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 22:12:45 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 16:12:45 -0600 Subject: Lily's House References: <94q59v+fotv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A71F65D.527C628A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10861 Hi -- Dai Evans wrote: > That's a good idea. Perhaps Lily was in Slytherin, hence the sorting > hats initial leaning towards Slytherin for Harry. I don't remember us > ever being told which house Lily was in in the canon. We know V was > recruiting powerful Slytherin Witches and Wizards; perhaps he was after > Lily. JKR said in one of the chats in October that Lily was in Gryffindor ("of course!"). Penny From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Fri Jan 26 22:19:12 2001 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:19:12 -0500 Subject: Do Animagi choose their forms? and the change over to yahoo groups References: <3A7131BC.7025470C@wicca.net> Message-ID: <3A71F7E0.67621CC8@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10862 Catlady wrote: > ANIMAGI FILK > Caius Marcius wrote: (The Scene: Behind locked doors at Gryffindor, a > generation or so distant. Three friends of Remus Lupin, SIRIUS BLACK, > JAMES POTTER, and PETER PETTIGREW have reached the point in their > Animagi studies that they are now ready to select the type of animal > into which they will transform) > > The song is cute, but IIRC it has a Major Factual Error: Animagi don't > get to CHOOSE their animal form, they just get stuck with the luck of > the draw. I've often wondered if they could get a second animal form by > going through the 'dangerous' Animagus process a second time. > Really? Is this so? Do you have a reference in the book where it says so? I'm curious because I had always imagined that that there was some degree of choice involved. Maybe the number of choices is limited by some inherent characteristic of the person--for example, Pettigrew's rat-like qualities are so apparent he'd likely not have any success in transforming himself into a lion, but he might have success with another rodent-type creature. I guess I've come up with this theory because McGonagal doesn't seem very cat-like to me; I figured that a cat was her choice, not her destiny. Catlady continued: > Someone already commented that James was Chaser, not Seeker. I have a > problem with JKR having said that. She firmly established how much > Harry resembles James physically, and she had Wood state that Harry is > the right build for a Seeker, so therefore James would also have been > the right build for a Seeker. The fans were all sure that James was a > Seeker and were all wrong. Harry does resemble James, but they are different in one fundamental way: James was tall (it's one of his more referred to characteristics, right along with the untidy hair) and Harry is very short. I would think that being tall would be a disadvantage for a seeker and an advantage for a chaser. I always imagined James as the keeper myself. I also suspect that we will learn that Godric Gryffindor was very short as well. As for this change to yahoo groups, is there anything that is absolutely vital that needs to be changed? Will my mail still show up in my inbox or do I have resubscribe? drpam of Gryffindor who is mostly albus dumbledore and charlie weasley, with a little Hermione for good measure and nothing at all like Lord Voldemort (at least according to the character quiz.) From Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk Fri Jan 26 22:22:55 2001 From: Heather at hedmonds.fsnet.co.uk (Heather Edmonds) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:22:55 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? References: <94r8d5+om7n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <013301c087e6$89035a20$b264883e@co.uk> No: HPFGUIDX 10863 I think ther's more than one Heather, so if teh Heather listed wasn't me. There's me Heather Edmonds too. After writing a sentence like that I'm surprised I passed my grammer test but fortunately I did. Heather "...Words strain, crack and sometimes break, under the burden, under the tension, slip, slide, perish, decay with imprecision, will not stay in place, will not stay still. Eliot, 1944. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 7:19 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? > All right, I've had it. :-) > > First, I get mildly rebuked for my choice of words... by my captain > *and* the cruise director, no less! > > Then no-shipper Neil draws a *hilarious* analogy to the Titanic and > sinks us. (That was funny... every time I remember that thread, I > smile!) > > Now the good ship R/H is throwing a party. I was quiet about it and > even grinned a little as I made observations and jotted them down in > my little notebook. I really don't mind R/H in small doses. > However, the minute I saw the One Big Happy Weasley Family banner > flying I *had* to abort that phase of the experiment for the sake of > my gastrointestinal well-being. > > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > Penny > Carole > Lori > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > Scott > Heather > Heidi > > I do believe there's more of you out there. > > Here's an incentive: if the other H/Hers weren't so shy and > apologetic around these parts, I'd post less! (Knew that would make > you come out of the woodwork! ) It's time for me to take a > break... I've a science experiment I plan to check on this weekend. > > We've been at war long enough, my dear H/H friends. How about we > throw the party to end all parties? (C'mon--you *know* we're the > party crowd!) And while we're at it--why not pour out some of these > theories we've been keeping in our wine closets like rare champagne? > (Unless we're still aging them properly, of course. If that is the > case, we shall wait for a more special occasion.) > > Best, > > Ebony > > (Sidebar: In a post that Hotmail will send to the list one day, I > made the observation that I--Ebony AKA AngieJ--the one responsible > for the terms "destroyer" and "disorder". No one else on my ship > used those terms! That forthcoming post also addresses the mythic > notion that R/Hers are by nature more docile than we are... and I > hope to create a thread about the correlation between ship theory and > canonical interpretation in general. I suspect that we *are* reading > different sides of the same Galleon. *Please* look for it.) > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Jan 26 22:19:44 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (cassandraclaire at mail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:19:44 -0000 Subject: One Big, Happy Weasley Family In-Reply-To: <3A71EF41.A110BC84@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94st60+gmj6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10864 MG wrote: One Big Happy Weasley Family isn't a bad idea. I actually like it, since the Weasleys have so much love for Harry and Hermione anyway. I can imagine something like the family-dinner scene in the beginning of GoF(snip) and Ginny sitting by Harry and Hermione by Ron and... a great big Weasley dinner... with everyone present. > Minnesota Girlie, being swept off with happy images > > ------ Penny wrote; > "One Big Happy Weasley Family" -- I really am a hopeless romantic in alot > of ways, but this possibility is too sappy even for me. Sorry, but > it just seems entirely too cliche for JKR. Agreed. And suddenly the whole "Harry dies at the end of Book 7" is starting to look appealing.. > > Yes, the One Big Happy Weasley Family thing certainly would be warm and fuzzy, but then it would also be warm and fuzzy to have Harry's parents come on back from the dead. It would also invalidate all our prior experience of the series. Not that the One Big Happy Weasley family would go quite that far, but I don't think I'd be alone in finding it cloying. One of the most attractive aspects of the HP books, and part of the reason I believe it appeals so much to adults, is its bracing lack of sentimentality. When Harry finds out he has a loving godfather, he * doesn't* get to go live with him and spend the rest of his summers toasting marshmallows with Sirius on camping trips. When he finds the Mirror that shows him his parents, he doesn't get to keep it or look into it again. I always see JKR choosing the less sentimental, less pathos-driven narrative path and I don't see why she'd change that when the series ends. Unless she really, really doesn't want anyone asking her to please write more Harry books. > > Cassie > From john at walton.to Fri Jan 26 22:20:50 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:20:50 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: One Big, Happy Weasley Family In-Reply-To: <3A71EF41.A110BC84@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10865 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > "One Big Happy Weasley Family" -- I really am a hopeless romantic in alot > of ways, but this possibility is too sappy even for me. Sorry, but > it just seems entirely too cliche for JKR. I can't imagine the story > that she's been itching to write for over 10 yrs would really end on such > a "polly-anna" note. I have to agree with Penny here. The OBHWF idea is far too saccharine for my liking. There's "Ah, how sweet, you married your teenage sweetheart", "How amazing that you both married your teenage sweethearts" and "What? You're all members of the same family? Have you people even HEARD of a gene pool?". --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Jan 26 22:52:59 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:52:59 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius-::Sigh:: In-Reply-To: <20010126212809.99324.qmail@web11708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010126145241.02d97d50@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10866 At 01:28 PM 1/26/01 -0800, Ginny Love wrote: >Maybe it's a conspiracy-Outlawed Wizards >are now loitering around Muggle shopping centers? Well, I suppose that's a good hiding place for them. :) -- Dave From allyson at ptd.net Fri Jan 26 22:54:40 2001 From: allyson at ptd.net (Allyson) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:54:40 -0500 Subject: Anyone??? Message-ID: <00a801c087ea$f885f700$e704bacc@allyson> No: HPFGUIDX 10867 Does anyone know when PoA will be out in paperback??!! Allyson ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~Albus Dumbledore~ Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets {pg. 333} [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Fri Jan 26 22:49:51 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:49:51 EST Subject: OT Some PTSD Links Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10868 This is probably far more than anyone ever wanted to know on the subject, but if you're interested, here are some links to websites that discuss PTSD. These are mostly education and/or institutional resources rather than personal web pages. http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-an06.html http://www.ncptsd.org/ http://www.psych.org/public_info/ptsd.cfm http://www.istss.org/ http://www.athealth.com/Practitioner/Newsletter/FPN_3_34.html http://www.houghton.edu/depts/psychology/ptsd/mainpage.htm A list of books and articles on the subject is located at: http://www.sover.net/~schwcof/ptsd.html An article on PTSD in children and adolescents: http://www.albany.net/~deavila/ptsd.html A couple of brochures you can download and print: http://www.psychguides.com/gl-treatment_of_PTSD.html The American Psychiatric Association has a 22 page list of related articles if you go to: http://www.psych.org/ and search for PTSD. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Jan 26 23:08:38 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:08:38 -0800 Subject: King's Cross Station's movie credits? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010126145720.00d59f00@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10869 Last night I watched that great British comedy _The Ladykillers_, which I recommend anyway, but especially to Harry fans who want to get an idea what King's Cross Station looks like (how it looked in the 50's, anyway). Does anyone know of any other movies with scenes at King's Cross? -- Dave From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Fri Jan 26 23:15:13 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:15:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Ginny Forever, Forever Ginny. Message-ID: <20010126231513.83470.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10870 Salutation, "Hi, Bob"s, Greetings and All That Jazz- I think that the spats between Hermione and Ron aren't basis for discounting the R/H theory. Most of their fights in GoF were based purely on jealousy, and I'd like to point out that in the fight post-Yule ball that Harry observes, Hermione yells at Ron (and I paraphrase): "Well, you know what this means, don't you? Next time there's a ball, ask me to go with you as a date, not a last resort." Heh. So much for FITD, eh? She *didn't* say "Oh, sod off, Ron", she told him to ask her out! I think these little things gently point us in the direction of seeing these two as more than friends. I happen to belive that alot of the things that made Ron seem like a jerk in PoA were also based on wanting to look as good as Harry. To impress everyone from Hermione to Sirius. Agreed, the "Big Happy Weasley Family" is big on the Cheese Factor, but its *sooooooooo* sweet! And to all of you who insist Ginny is meaningless: Might I point out that CoS was all about her? She was the key to that entire book! Besides the fact she is the only Wizard who suffered the wrath of Voldemort and lived, she's available, and, hey, there really aren't that many avaliable witches. Once Ron and Hermione start dating there will be even less. Who else is there? Cho? I somehow think the Cedric Thing rained on that parade. As Ginny gets older, she'll start blossoming more and coming out of her shell. Harry & co. will be fifteen in the next book, and she will be fourteen. Just wait and watch. Maybe our little carrot top will surprise us. Just my two Knuts. Ginny Love --------------------------------------------------- "Ron/Hermione: It Just Makes Sense" --------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From cassandraclaire at mail.com Fri Jan 26 23:31:41 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (cassandraclaire at mail.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:31:41 -0000 Subject: Ginny Forever, Forever Ginny. In-Reply-To: <20010126231513.83470.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94t1ct+agn7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10871 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Ginny Love wrote: > > And to all of you who insist Ginny is meaningless: > Might I point out that CoS was all about her? She was > the key to that entire book! Besides the fact she is > the only Wizard who suffered the wrath of Voldemort > and lived, she's available, and, hey, there really > aren't that many avaliable witches. Once Ron and > Hermione start dating there will be even less. Who > else is there? Cho? I somehow think the Cedric Thing > rained on that parade. As Ginny gets older, she'll > start blossoming more and coming out of her shell. > Harry & co. will be fifteen in the next book, and she > will be fourteen. Just wait and watch. Maybe our > little carrot top will surprise us. > Just my two Knuts. > Ginny Love I wouldn't say CoS was all about Ginny. She was a Plot Device and had less lines than Aragog, the giant spider. She served her purpose and made about as big an impression with her personality as Buckbeak did in Book 3, only she was less useful. As for the "Harry hooks up with Ginny because there are no other witches" theory, well, that's a new one on me. H/G out of Total Desperation, eh? Just because JKR hasn't mentioned them, I can't imagine that there aren't just as many witches as wizards at Hogwarts, at least I hope so. It would be rather depressing if at the end of the 7th book, Harry has to marry Ginny because there just aren't any other females his age and he's desperate to reproduce the Potter genetic code. Cassie From john at walton.to Fri Jan 26 23:36:03 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:36:03 +0000 Subject: YahooGroups changeover (response to Pam H.) In-Reply-To: <3A71F7E0.67621CC8@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10872 Pam Hugonnet wrote: > As for this change to yahoo groups, is there anything that is absolutely > vital that needs to be changed? Will my mail still show up in my inbox or > do I have resubscribe? Yes, mail will show up in your inbox *for a while*. In my experience (namely with the Y!/GeoCities merger), however, it's best to change over to the new format asap as resources are put into it (servers, email rerouters and other technical wizardry). So, although it's slightly less appealing than eating sand, it might be a good idea to start doing so when you have some free time to spare. You can find a helpful tips 'n' tricks file at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt Regards, --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Fri Jan 26 23:53:25 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:53:25 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape commentary (was: Re: Harry's abilities/Hagrid as Reliable Source) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20010125182304.00aa1c90@mail.fuuko.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010126145636.02f10100@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10873 At 06:29 PM 1/25/01 -0600, DrMM wrote: >This could explain half of his irrational actions in PoA. After all, he >did believe Sirius betrayed James & Lily, and I'd be pretty irrational if >someone betrayed someone I loved.... Well, as I've said in the past I think the idea that Snape was in love with Lily is too Soap-Opera-ish, but I like toying with the idea that Lily was a blood relative, e.g. his sister, half-sister, or cousin. I think Snape may have regarded himself as Lily's "protector", and he blames James for fatally endangering her. Of course, if Lily's family line is not 100% Muggle, the question arises, "Where does this leave Petunia?" I see four possibilities: 1. Snape and Lily were both Muggle-borns. 2. Petunia is either a squib or a "repressed" witch. 3. Lily's mum married twice. 4. Lily and Snape were beloved cousins. Number 3, which I also call my "Mrs. Moore" Theory (in reference to _A Passage to India_, for reasons too lengthy to lay out here) is the one I consider most likely, so I'll elaborate: In this scenario, Lily's mum first married one Caligula Snape, an arch-Muggle who belonged to three whites-only country clubs and was a speechwriter for the Nixon administration (he coined that little remark about grabbing people by the such-and-such). By this union came Petunia Snape (a Muggle) and a future Potions master named Severus. Then Lily's mum came to her senses and divorced Caligula (she got custody of Petunia and Caligula got custody of Severus, who inherited his father's sensitivity and charm). Then she married a much nicer Muggle, and they had Lily. Snape and Lily never met until Hogwarts, but he took her under his wing after he realized she was his half-brother. He always hated James, and it tore him apart to see his beloved baby half-sister throwing herself away on a wild scapegrace. But that resentment turned to eternal loathing when Voldy killed Lily, which would never have happened if that foolish child had not been so idiotic as to form a consumated alliance with the Heir of smeggin' Gryffindor. -- Dave From john at walton.to Fri Jan 26 23:47:01 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:47:01 +0000 Subject: The Importance of Being Buckbeak (Was: Ginny Forever, Forever Ginny) In-Reply-To: <94t1ct+agn7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10874 cassandraclaire at mail.com wrote: > I wouldn't say CoS was all about Ginny. She was a Plot Device and had > less lines than Aragog, the giant spider. She served her purpose and > made about as big an impression with her personality as Buckbeak did > in Book 3, only she was less useful. I disagree. Buckbeak is far more useful than Ginny Weasley, for a whole variety of reasons. For space reasons, only some are listed below: 1) Buckbeak attacked Draco Malfoy. In my book, any creature, human, non-human, earthly or not, which attacks Canon!Draco deserves a bloody medal. 2) Buckbeak highlights a shockingly low regard for animal welfare in the wizarding community. His selfless near-martyrdom shows a will of steel, a heart of gold, a spleen of mercury, a--[That's enough. -Ed.] 3) Buckbeak saves Sirius Black. Without Beaky's heroic efforts, Sirius would have been returned to Azkaban or, worse, been Kissed by a Dementor. We'd never have had A Sirius Affair, nor would Harry and Draco be stepbrothers in DD/DS. 4) Buckbeak doesn't whine, even when he's about to be viciously murdered in cold blood by Lucius Malfoy's Death Eater crony Macnair. Ginny, on the other hand... 5) Buckbeak just looks cool, darnit. --John, Chief Minion of the Muggles for Hippogriff Rights campaign == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 23:49:52 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:49:52 -0600 Subject: Ginny Forever, Forever Ginny. References: <20010126231513.83470.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A720D20.CFB5D41@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10875 Hi -- Ginny Love wrote: > I think that the spats between Hermione and Ron aren't basis for > discounting the R/H theory. Most of their fights in GoF were based > purely on jealousy, :::arches eyebrow::: Oh, really? Bzzzzzz! I think I'll need a judge's ruling on that one! You might want to see pg 539 for example. They had a spat about the house elves. Then, they were later sniping at each other so badly over their homework that Harry retreated to the owlery because being around the two of them was so unpleasant. I might point out that Ron & Hermione also have a fundamental difference of opinion about tolerance, bigotry, etc. Hermione's called him on it twice in GoF: first against the house elves and then against the giants. > and I'd like to point out that in the fight post-Yule ball that Harry > observes, Hermione yells at Ron (and I paraphrase): "Well, you know > what this means, don't you? Next time there's a ball, ask me to go > with you as a date, not a last resort." Heh. So much for FITD, eh? She > *didn't* say "Oh, sod off, Ron", she told him to ask her out! Now, now. Don't be discounting FITD so fast there. We've discussed this before. In short, I maintain that we are limited because of Harry's POV. We don't hear what was said before he stepped into the common room. It might well have been what Ron said to Hermione at the Yule Ball, "You're betraying Hogwarts and Harry by going to the Ball with Krum!" In which case, her response can be given a different spin. Hasn't JKR proven time & time again that by not telling the reader the full story, it's easy to make a mis-interpretation & be thrown off-course? I think this scene is *ripe* for that sort of manipulation by the master author, JKR. It's easy to go with the "surface level" text in this case & make assumptions -- dangerous assumptions to make in JKR's fiction I think. And, even if Hermione was saying, "You should have asked me first" -- might not that have been anger directed at him for thinking he could just ask her at the last minute when he failed to secure a more attractive date? She was pretty steamed about that issue in general as I recall. No ... FITD is alive & well I assure you. > And to all of you who insist Ginny is meaningless: Might I point out > that CoS was all about her? She was a victim. She wasn't exactly portrayed as a strong character (IMO). And, despite her centrality to the final plot twists, she didn't have much of a speaking role overall really. > she's available, and, hey, there really aren't that many avaliable > witches. Ahem. So, Harry should be paired off with someone we hardly even know because she's the only one besides Hermione who's available? > As Ginny gets older, she'll start blossoming more and coming out of > her shell. > Harry & co. will be fifteen in the next book, and she will be > fourteen. Just wait and watch. Maybe our little carrot top will > surprise us. Maybe. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Fri Jan 26 23:52:45 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:52:45 -0600 Subject: Chaser vs. Seeker: Body Type References: <3A7131BC.7025470C@wicca.net> <3A71F7E0.67621CC8@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: <3A720DCC.17003B62@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10876 Hi -- Pam Hugonnet wrote: > Catlady continued: > > > Someone already commented that James was Chaser, not Seeker. I have a > > problem with JKR having said that. She firmly established how much > > Harry resembles James physically, and she had Wood state that Harry is > > the right build for a Seeker, so therefore James would also have been > > the right build for a Seeker. The fans were all sure that James was a > > Seeker and were all wrong. > > Harry does resemble James, but they are different in one fundamental > way: James was tall (it's one of his more referred to characteristics, right > along with the untidy hair) and Harry is very short. I would think that > being tall would be a disadvantage for a seeker and an advantage for a > chaser. I always imagined James as the keeper myself. I also suspect that > we will learn that Godric Gryffindor was very short as well. Well, Pam beat me to the punch on that one! That was exactly what I was going to point out. Of course, over in fanfic land, I'm in the minority for believing that Harry may remain short and not catch up to his father's height. He might have inherited shorter stature from his mum after all! Anyway.... I would guess his height might be a plus in his position as seeker. Penny From rhodhry at yahoo.no Fri Jan 26 23:55:04 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (=?iso-8859-1?q?Christian=20Stub=F8?=) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:55:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: Hogwarts population and Ships that go *boom* in the night (no magids involved) Message-ID: <20010126235504.23108.qmail@web1302.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10877 --- "naama " skrev: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > In other words, 6,000 if there are three hundred students. We're > not > > far apart. (Me 5,000 or less). Neither of us have adjusted for > > muggle-borns like Hermione; we can't without knowing how many. So > the > > wizard population would be even lower. > > > > Ummm... I'm wondering - did you take into account wizard longevity? > If wizards normal span of life is about 200 years (seeing that > Dumbledore is 150 and considered old but is still very vigorous), > then the ratio wizard adults:children will be much higher than in > muggle populations (but I'm too lazy to try and do the precise > calculations). > > Naama I took wizard-longevity into account in my calculations. I took data from the general registry office of scotland, where they have a table breaking down the population of scotland in to yearclasses, i.e. showing how many scots there are aged 0-1 year old, how many aged 1-2years old, etc. I then assumed an identical shape for the agewise distribution. In the average muggle-population, people aged 11-18 years constitue roughly 1/10th of the population, meaning in the wizard-population, the corresponding number should be roughly half. Further on population - I assumed that Hogwarts covered all of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, Channel Islands, Gibraltar, Falklands, etc. but *not* Canada, Australi, New Zealand, etc. The muggle-population of the territories included is almost excactly 1/100 of the world-population, and if you assume uniform world-wide distribution of wizards, then the wizard-population of same area is 1/100 of the world wizard-population. A population of 5000 wizards in great Britain+Ireland means a total of 500 000 wizards worldwide. In GoF, when going to the Quidditch World Cup, Mr. Weasley, who was involved to a degree in the preparations of the World Cup, tells Harry that there are one hundred thousand wizards coming to see the worldcup. I think that alone supports a world-wide wizard-population larger than 500 000. On another note (quite tongue-in-cheek) - I am having trouble deciding whether the ships SS H/H and SS H/H are battleships or luxuryliners, though in many cases, I believe the former to be accurate (at leats at times, though it seems they have been given a refit recently - I have however seen them exchange 2700lbs APC-shells with a passion). Just take note - there are other ships out here too. Of course, the venerable old S/S Chang Potter is now relegated to auxiliary duties only, but there are flotillas of torpedo-craft out there whose greatest joy is to cause general disturbance along the major shipping-lanes? The most noticeable flotilla is lead by the flotilla-leader HMS Black Lupin (1495 tons standard, 36.75kts, 6350 nm at 15kts, nine 4.7in QF MkIX, eight 21in TT). ;-) (Were you aware that the Royal Navy of Britain has had in its service ships bearing names like HMS Bradford, HMS Pansy, HMS Petunia, HMS Lily, HMS Keith, HMS Basilisk, HMS Kimberley, HMS Cassandra and, not the least, HMS Wizard?) Greetings CPO Stub - torpedo officer (bucking under the average pressure of eight digests per day from this list alone) ===== "There are two trillion six-houndred and sixtyfive billion eight-houndred and sixtysix million, seven-houndred and fortysix thousand, six-houndred and sixtyfour litte devils in the world" --------------------------------------------- Christian Stub Student of Technology, architectura navalis _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Del dine bilder med andre p http://no.photos.yahoo.com From aichambaye at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 00:18:17 2001 From: aichambaye at yahoo.com (aichambaye at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:18:17 -0000 Subject: PoA in paperback In-Reply-To: <00a801c087ea$f885f700$e704bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94t449+3etp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10878 I asked at the bookstore the other day (the bookseller is an HP fan too!) and she says her best guess is summer- there's no date yet as far as she knows. Heather M. --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Allyson" wrote: > Does anyone know when PoA will be out in paperback??!! > > Allyson > > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* > "It is our choices, Harry, that show > what we truly are, far more than our > abilities." ~Albus Dumbledore~ > > Harry Potter and the Chamber of > Secrets {pg. 333} > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sat Jan 27 00:43:35 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:43:35 +1100 Subject: Hermione and Diagon alley (was Re: Favorite Scene for HP Movie) Message-ID: <01C08856.67C98940.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 10879 Has anyone else wondered how Hermione got to Diagon Alley the first time - to buy her books and all that? She didn't have Hagrid to lead her, nor a wand to open the back wall of the Leaky Cauldron ..... Back on e-mail .... very happy .... only 500 + post to read Storm -----Original Message----- > > Of course Quidditch would be cool, but I don't know if it could live > > up to what's in my head, so I try not to get too excited. What I > > would like to see are the smaller, more everyday things (I'm a > detail > > person): > > I'm like you - I want to see some of the smaller things, like the > first moment Harry and the Dursleys meet Hagrid (which, granted, Isn't > all that small of a thing), but also... > I want to see the wall opening into Diagon Alley. > I want to see what they decide cauldron cakes look like. > I want to see Harry's wand 'choose' him. > I want to see Scabbers bite Goyle. > I want to see a snuff box with whiskers. > I want to see the the Fat Lady and the Gryf common room. > > And I really really really want to see the sorting hat, and here the > whole school singing Hoggy Warty Hogwarts to different tunes. > OOOH! And I want to see the giant chess game! > I don't so much want to see Voldy in the back of Quirrel's head > though, that sounded kinda icky. > And I haven't even thought yet what I want to see from books 2, 3, > 4... > > kimberly Yes, yes, yes! And the scenery too, although we'll be missing the descriptive words JKR uses to talk about what things look like (is squashy the most perfect word to describe an armchair or what!?) ~ I guess that's why books are usually better than the movie though...but to see the castle from the boats when they are being led by Hagrid, or the classrooms, or even Dudley's room... Becky To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 00:37:07 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:37:07 Subject: Illness in wizarding (was: A Few Observations) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10880 Becky wrote: >To take this in a slightly different direction - does the fact that >all illnesses and injuries can be healed either instantaneously or >overnight (unless caused by a magical creature) mean that no one in >the wizarding community is ever sick or crippled? I mean, you don't >exactly hear about a flu bug taking out half of Hogwarts for a week, >huh? Someone put in an earlier post today that Dumbledore was 150 >years old - is this true, I don't remember reading it? If so, >though, it is understandable if there are no lasting illnesses.... I've a nugget of an idea about a story in which a wizard or a witch is dying of cancer or another terminal disease. I don't buy the notion that wizards can't get sick. I think that Jo's magical medicine rules are rather piecemeal. Harry has to wear glasses... but Madame Pomfrey can regrow the bones in his arm. Hermione has bucked teeth... but she can be revived from a near-death coma with a simple potion. There don't seem to be many hard-and-fast rules here. BTW, did anyone see my question about means by which Harry *could* be killed? Everything Voldemort has tried so far has been ineffective, to say the least. --Ebony AKA AngieJ <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From donna.rae at verizon.net Sat Jan 27 00:39:42 2001 From: donna.rae at verizon.net (Donna Rae) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:39:42 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New file uploaded to HPforGrownups References: <980546812.4126.15676.s16@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <049d01c087f9$a3d18e40$09392a04@vz.dsl.genuity.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10881 I followed the link to the text file on yahoogroups but the file does not use word wrap. It's very hard to read. Donna Rae ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 5:06 PM Subject: [HPforGrownups] New file uploaded to HPforGrownups > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups > group. > > File : /+merger.txt > Uploaded by : john at walton.to > Description : HPforGrownups' tips and tricks on surviving the eGroups/YahooGroups Merger > > You can access this file at the URL > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/%2Bmerger.txt > > To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > john at walton.to > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 00:55:11 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:55:11 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD (was re: marvin's fanfic) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10882 Naama wrote: >Ebony, I think you're going a bit too far in "giving" all of them >PTSD. After all, most people who have fought in wars do not get PTSD... Will we ever agree on *anything*, Naama? JKR has implied that the theme of her series is largely allegorical... most fantasy epics *are*. Good versus evil. Anyone who comes in contact with pure, unadulterated evil will be changed forever. As for wide-scale trauma, it not only affects individuals, but entire nations and communities. To give just one example out of many worldwide, I'd be willing to challenge *anyone* who disagrees with the fact that my own community in this country is still dealing with the aftershock of the transatlantic slave trade--half a millenium after it first began. I can't sit up and argue theory on this issue. For me, it's a gut feeling derived from my faith. I strongly believe in generational links, patterns, and derivative implications. Everything I've ever studied about the history of humankind ties into this belief. We don't know what will happen in future books. That leaves the door wide open for speculation. BTW, Jim Ferer is the expert on this theory, not I. :-) --Ebony AKA AngieJ <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From zsenya at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 01:02:40 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (Jennie Levine) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:02:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Good Ship R/H... Message-ID: <20010127010240.28458.qmail@web1903.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10883 URG! I've been trying to send this but egroups has been usurped by Yahoo overnight! I'm trying again...I hope it's not to late to catch the Good Ship R/H Well, I have to admit, I recklessly deleted about 10 digests yesterday without reading them in an attempt to "simplify" my life, but then this morning I see the whole ship thread! Kathy - I'm here, delurking in defense of Ron once again! I'll join you on the SS R/H. It's early and I don't know exactly what to say that I haven't said before. I just like R/H better. I think that Ron really cares about Hermione, despite the bickering, and as soon as he's not a 15 year-old boy anymore they'll be really good for each other. Hermione annoys the heck out of Harry and I get the feeling that she knows it. She annoys Ron too, but I think he kind of likes it. This of course, just fits my own personal world image of Hermione - whom I see as a very clever, very courageous girl. I think she's wonderful. I think Ron makes her mind whirl and she needs that. I don't know...it's early and I'm rambling. Maybe I should just try tocome up with a coherent thought later in the day. To me, it's obvious Ron has a crush on her and that she likes him back. That's how I've interpreted things like her getting annoyed with Fleur. And I KNOW that the ratio of high school romances that pan out to adulthood are probably rare, but this is a world of fiction and I want to see it that way. I want Ron and Hermione to grow up, be together, and have lots of bushy-haired redheaded kids. I want Harry to battle Voldemort, kill him, and retire to a nice quiet life with Ginny Weasley. I don't even keep in touch with more than one person from high school on a regular basis, so maybe I am just looking to them for a nice alternate reality. The H/H shippers have their own beliefs and views, and I respect that. If they're all as obsessed as I am about the books, then I totally understand how emotional everyone gets on the subject. I just hope that whichever of us gets to be the Titanic, that the good people of the Carpathia will rescue all of us! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sat Jan 27 01:13:56 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (cassandraclaire at mail.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:13:56 -0000 Subject: The Importance of Being Buckbeak (Was: Ginny Forever, Forever Ginny) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94t7ck+df8d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10884 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., John Walton wrote: > cassandraclaire at m... wrote: > > > I wouldn't say CoS was all about Ginny. She was a Plot Device and had less lines than Aragog, the giant spider. She served her purpose and made about as big an impression with her personality as Buckbeak did in Book 3, only she was less useful. > John wrote: I disagree. Buckbeak is far more useful than Ginny Weasley, for a whole variety of reasons. *whines* Jo-hn! Did you *read* my post? I said Ginny was "less useful" than Buckbeak, not "more useful". *schnoogles John* Silly boy. Cassie From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 01:20:00 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:20:00 -0000 Subject: Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) In-Reply-To: <94smul+g5r8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94t7o0+oj26@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10885 I said: >" I think this may be how Ginny will be playing a bigger part > in the next book(s), and also may afford Harry the opportunity to see > her as something more than Ron's embarrassing little sister. Hmmm - > this no-shipping thing is hard - I'd rather like to see them develop > at the very least a relationship of mutual respect, if not something > special." > "Jim Ferer" wrote: > You and I are on the very small H/G ship, oppressed and alone, being > pelted by pennies and beaten with clubs of ebony, and patronized > because we think One Big Happy Weasley Family isn't such a bad thing > after all. It's true we haven't had much to go on, and certainly > Ginny will have to get over her hero-worship of Harry for them to > develop anything real. Shared experience will do a lot to resolve > that, I hope, and then maybe we'll see something better than her being > shipped off to a creep like Draco. Jim~ OH! Maybe THAT's where I belong! This has been a very wishy-washy week for me - I jumped ship early in the week in hopes that the shipless waters would make me more objective, and less emotional. The problem is, I'm divided on the whole thing. My rational/objective side says the whole shipping thing ought to be moot as we're talking about a bunch of children who are way too young to know who they should spend their lives with, and that it's unfair to impose my thoughts/feelings/wishes on the characters at all. That side also adds (I think in order to trick the rest of me into thinking this is sufficiently romantic), that if no real 'ships arise in canon everyone can go on believing in whatever they prefer. My emotional/instinctual side stomps its feet and says - "HEY! What the heck is wrong with One Big Happy Family?!?" and feels that anyone with a heart in 'em would *want* the whole gang to be happy, dammit! (My emotional/instinctual side isn't very tactful, I'm sorry!) My inner child adores Ginny, the font of potential, and wants to see her do something wonderful and heroic and have Harry suddenly notice what a lovely shade of burnt umber her freckles turn when she's embarrassed. My inner adolescent wants to tear herself out of my head/heart or wherever she's currently hanging out and rush to Hogwarts while Hermione's not looking and let Ron beat ME(her?) in chess for a change. My rational brain then occasionally breaks up the party to remind everyone that this is all fiction, at which point my inner pranksters (in Weasley sweaters, of course) steal the party pooper's prefect badge and charm it to say naughty words. So as you can see, I've been rather in a tizzy lately. But if you're willing to allow such a schizophrenic mess as myself aboard, the SS H/G sounds like a cozy little home. Maybe we can meet up with the Good Ship R/H at Party Cove? I think it's a demilitarized zone, so we should be safe! Thanks for the lifeline, Jim! kimberly, soggy new recruit on the SS H/G From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sat Jan 27 01:24:16 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (rhodhry at yahoo.no) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:24:16 -0000 Subject: Book prices Message-ID: <94t800+dord@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10886 What are nromal prices for the translated versions of the Harry Potter-books? The Norwegian edition of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" (GoF bot being translated to Norwegian yet) goes for USD30/GBP20 per copy - How does this compare to other countries? Greetings Christian Stub? "We are the Yahoo! Your service's cultural and technical individualities will be assimilated to serve our needs. Resistance is futile." From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 27 01:36:47 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 17:36:47 -0800 Subject: Sympathy for the Divination Prof - Buckbeak/Malfoy - 2 for Amy Z - Quidditch - Wizard Ages - 2 for Pam - Diagon Alley Message-ID: <3A72262E.C4E869D0@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10887 PoA is paperback in Britain, which can be ordered from amazon.co.uk. SYMPATHY FOR TRELAWNEY Anake wrote: Does anyone else on this list feel a bit sorry for Prof. Trelawny? First of all, I can get some hint on how hard it must be to be a teacher. I'm just glad that Trelawny has at least two of her students who like and appreciate her. I don't really think that Trelawney has caught on that Ron and Harry are mocking her, and she made a good recovery from Hermione walking out. The only time I felt sorry for ol' Sybil was when she came to Xmas dinner and said 'Where is dear Professor Lupin?" and that he had fled when she offered to read the crystal ball for him -- I felt that the poor old bat was in romantic pursuit of dear Remus and he was fleeing her romantic overtures every bit as much as he was fleeing discovery of his secret. Thus, I could identify with her.... BUCKBEAK/MALFOY (the very latest ship!) Donna Rae wrote: Malfoy and Buckbeak - This episode really started to annoy me the third time through the books. (snip) Why couldn't she heal Malfoy when Buckbeak wounded him? (snip) We all know that Malfoy was pretending, but why couldn't the teachers see that? Someone already pointed out Lucius Malfoy's power. I imagine some sort of scenario in which 1) all the teachers knew that Draco Malfoy was pretending, but Snape backed up Draco anyway, out of fondness for Draco or service to Lucius or dislike of Hagrid, and the other teachers feel they can't go against Draco's own House Master without a diagnosis from Madam Pomfrey, and 2) Snape backed up Lucius's demand that Draco is not to be professionally seen at all by Madam Pomfrey, but only by an expensive specialist hired by Lucius (who says whatever the Malfoys want him to say). AMY Z WROTE: Amy Z -- who really does NOT believe that HP is a Christian allegory The Christian story is so deeply embedded in the story telling and thought patterns of Western Civilisation that a newly written story can come out as a Christian Allegory even tho' the author had no such intention, but merely was inspired to use some of the emotionally powerful archetypes from older literature. Amy Z -- In those moments at the end of PoA that Harry is seriously on the verge of killing Sirius: how would he have done it? Is there some curse he already knows that will kill someone? He could have levitated a heavy object and dropped it on Sirius's head, like the club on the troll in SS. He probably wasn't thinking clearly enough to transfigure part of Sirius's aorta into tissue paper, that would instantly become wet, tear, and result in death by massive hemorrhage. GRYFFINDOR QUIDDITCH Dinah asked: But Sirius was Beater, right? I don't recall ANYTHING in canon about Sirius and Quidditch. Some fanfic has him as Beater. Some fanfic has him talented but too undisciplined to play on a team sport. I wish someone had asked JKR about Sirius and Quidditch in one of the on-line chats. WIZARDING AGES Becky wrote: Someone put in an earlier post today that Dumbledore was 150 years old - is this true, I don't remember reading it? JKR said that Dumbledore is 150 and McGonagall is 'a sprightly 70' in an on-line chat. She said wizards have longer lifespans than Muggles, but Harry doesn't know that yet. Dumbledore doesn't look 150 -- he had auburn hair 'fifty years ago' when he was 100 -- and McGonagall doesn't look 70 -- her black hair might not be the result of hair dye. IE, part of the wizarding folk's longer lifespan is that they age slower. Which could in turn mean that witches have menopause later, and therefore could have four or five children and space them far enough apart to raise each one almost like an only child. However, I feel that 150 is quite old even for a wizard, partly because in GoF Harry keeps noticing Dumbledore looking old. That could show Harry's new sensitivity, Dumbledore's stress from Voldemort's return, or Dumbledore really is looking older. The latter could be due to normal aging, or perhaps he had been sharing Flamel's Elixir of Life and is now showing the signs of getting along without it. If Dumbledore lived longer and/or remained vigourous longer than normal wizards, it could be due to good genes (like that Muggle woman in France who lived to 123), or due to his great magic power, or due to sharing the Elixir. Does anyone have opinions whether wizarding folk's longer lives are a side effect of having wizarding ability, or caused by magic medical care and anti-aging spells? PAM WROTE: Pam Hugonnet wrote: I guess I've come up with this theory because McGonagal doesn't seem very cat-like to me; I figured that a cat was her choice, not her destiny. Perhaps I am merely gullible, but I've never had any trouble seeing McGonagall as a cat. I assume she keeps her feline sensuality and playfulness behind closed doors (with her life-long partner Madam Hooch) and shows feline dignity and sharp claws everywhere else. Pam Hugonnet wrote: Harry does resemble James, but they are different in one fundamental way: James was tall (it's one of his more referred to characteristics, right along with the untidy hair) and Harry is very short. I expect that, with Harry's resemblance to James, that James was short at Harry's age and Harry will have a growth spurt and become tall at the same age James did. I also wonder whether Harry had already started growing tall by the end of PoA, when he could mistake himself for James. Being tall is SUPPOSED to be a disadvantage for a Seeker, but it doesn't seem to have stopped Cedric any. I like the Mirror of Erised scene showing Harry's parents in the Marshall Field's Xmas show pictures that someone recently posted the URL for at about.com ... because it is a defense against my brain's romantic tendency to see James as not-skinny. DIAGON ALLEY Storm Snuffles MacGoo wrote: has anyone else wondered how Hermione got to Diagon Alley the first time - to buy her books and all that? She didn't have Hagrid to lead her, nor a wand to open the back wall of the Leaky Cauldron ..... I assume that one job of the barman and/or wait staff of the Leaky Cauldron is to lead Muggle-born new students to the back wall and open it for them. Tom would insist on seeing the Hogwarts letter first, so it wouldn't do any good for us to borrow an 11 year old and try to pass himer off as a Muggle-born new student... -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 02:01:40 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:01:40 -0000 Subject: One Big, Happy Weasley Family In-Reply-To: <94st60+gmj6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ta64+updd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10888 Cassie, The opposition to the happy family idea intrigues me, so I'm going to just let loose (now that I've rereleased my shippy, emotional side) and rant and ask all the questions I've been wondering about, and I've chosen to do so in response to your post, but please, don't take this as an attack or anything, I just really honestly don't understand the opposition, and I really want to see where this is going. So here goes: --- In HPforGrownups at y..., cassandraclaire at m... wrote: > > Yes, the One Big Happy Weasley Family thing certainly would be warm > and fuzzy, but then it would also be warm and fuzzy to have Harry's > parents come on back from the dead. It would also invalidate all our > prior experience of the series. Not that the One Big Happy Weasley > family would go quite that far Then why make the comparison? I'm not asking for the natural laws of the universe to be broken, just for the poor kid to get a loving, supportive, happy place to be after it's all over. Why is that so bad? I admit it's not necessarily the most realistic, or the most likely thing to happen, but I can't for the life of me understand why people seem to feel it's a bad thing to wish for. If there were an option for me in my life to get the happy family scenario, I certainly wouldn't pass it up to avoid being cliche. Would you? , but I don't think I'd be alone in > finding it cloying. One of the most attractive aspects of the HP > books, and part of the reason I believe it appeals so much to adults, > is its bracing lack of sentimentality. When Harry finds out he has a > loving godfather, he * doesn't* get to go live with him and spend the > rest of his summers toasting marshmallows with Sirius on camping > trips. YET - you can't allow something like that to happen in book 3 of a 7 book series that depends on pathos, but at the end, why not allow them to have that relationship? When he finds the Mirror that shows him his parents, he > doesn't get to keep it or look into it again. Because that wouldn't be good for him - a pleasant illusion that keeps him from living his life is a lot different from getting some degree of happy ever after in the end. If he stayed staring forever in front of the mirror, what would the rest of the books be about? Cobwebs, hunger and a really bad need to pee? I always see JKR > choosing the less sentimental, less **pathos-driven narrative path and > I don't see why she'd change that when the series ends. Because happy endings requires unhappy beforehand? Aside: **Pathos: an element in experience or in artistic representation evoking pity or compassion - isn't that what *is* driving it if he can't be with his godfather and must go back to the abusive home instead? Unless she > really, really doesn't want anyone asking her to please write more > Harry books. Are you saying that if there is some incarnation of the happy family theory in the end, you will think less of JKR and no longer respect her work? I really do want to know - would it affect you that way? Kimberly, who doesn't mind cliches if they allow her heros to be happy From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Jan 27 01:57:04 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:57:04 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Post-Hogwarts PTSD References: <94snr0+40pu@eGroups.com> <3A71F244.898D66B8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <030001c08804$780c69a0$7a4ad63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10889 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer" > > naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote: > > > After all, most people who have fought in wars do not get PTSD. > According to : http://www.psych.org/public_info/ptsd.cfm (thanks elizabeth for posting these links) Ten percent of the population has been affected at some point by clinically diagnosable PTSD. Still more show some symptoms of the disorder. Although it was once thought to be mostly a disorder of war veterans who had been involved in heavy combat, > > We should remember, however, that generally speaking people are tough > > and can survive very difficult times without breaking up emotionally > > (which is what I think PTSD is basically). > > I'm sure Carole or Monika or someone else more knowledgeable about PTSD > can speak to this more than I can .... but my personal take is that > you're viewing PTSD as some sort of personal weakness that could be > overcome with enough strength of character. I don't think this is > necessarily true, but I admittedly am not too knowledgeable about this > topic. PTSD is a physiological response. It has to do with a heightened response in Autonomic nervous system. I'm no expert...just doing some research, but the body gets accustomed to this heightened response and has trouble turning it off when the trauma is over. There's also an element of memory there in that the memory of the trauma does not get filed in the right place. It gets maintained in the current file rather than the memory file. Its not a matter of emotional strength as much as a mechanism the body uses to survive. Whether Harry succumbs to post-Hogwarts PTSD depends a lot on the type of trauma and the type of support he gets in the aftermath (a comforting Hermione to come home and love him when its all over....sorry couldn't resist ) carole From jtichon at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 02:05:48 2001 From: jtichon at yahoo.com (Jenna Tichon) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:05:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: HI from the shadows Message-ID: <20010127020548.5449.qmail@web313.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10890 Hi to the list. After being on here for 2 weeks I've finally gotten through ALL of the e-mails (read over 600 in the last two days) so I can finally introduce my self. The following are my vitals: Obsession rate: 64% Character Personality on test: Hermione House Personality on test: Gryffindor Favorite Character: Ginny Ship Preference: H/H Now I won't be involved in any big shipping debate. My H/H preference is solely because it feels right to me. I'm a firm believer in Fate and I just think they're destined to be together. I have no evidence to back it up or anything. This is purely a feeling. Then there are my few questions I have on this wizarding world: 1)Where do wizards get any excercise? The only sport that they seem to know is quidditch which isn't much on the cardiovascular side and not too many people seem to play it. They just observe it. So how do they stay in shape? 2)Where's the culture? There's no mention of them ever doing anything mildly creative with their own imaginations. We don't hear of art stores down in Diagon alley. There's no one who seems to draw or anything. There's no classes that teaches them anything about literature. And if Hermione likes books as much as JKR portrays her too then wouldn't we hear of her reading some non-fiction? Is there any famous non-fiction wizarding literature? There whole world seems to be most solely intellectual as opposed to cultured and imaginative. 3)What happens for education before Hogwarts? This question has been asked atleast three times sinceI've joined and no one's ever discussed it. Well that's my ramblings for the night. Bye! ===== Jenna G. Tichon "It's okay to make fun of Jerry Springer and Monica Lewinsky but don't make fun of real people." ~Vicky McMahon jtichon at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 06:49:48 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:49:48 Subject: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10891 >Ginny Love wrote of the R/H ship: > >It just makes sense. The honorable R/H Captain Kathy responded: >Hmm, I think we have a new motto. GOAT! Where in tarnation *are* you? I'd better get that cheesy "the best ship is friendship" in the mail soon... I did more than bite my tongue when reading the above! That makes almost than a dozen R/H posts in the past 12 hours that I responded nicely to or just kept quiet about. Didn't bite my tongue all the way off, though. Since we've proven that "the many and the proud" is now inscribed on the good ship R/H, our H/H captain's nearing leave and most of our other passengers are busy enjoying the ride or making the ride more pleasurable... you'll still be hearing from me. After all... since there is no war, there is no draft. But in peacetime, any successful cruise ship welcomes volunteers, partygoers, and even fanatical self-appointed Special Agents. :-) Having said that, I must compliment my friend, the Captain of the R/H ship. I've taken the full tour, and I must say that I'm impressed. What a vessel... you go, girl! (Doesn't compete with blue snow, swing music, hippogriffs, Hogsmere strolls, and *completely* insignificant GoF kisses that no H/H shipper in her right mind should even care about, but hey--to each her own!) :-) Best, Ebony AKA AngieJ (who is having fun for now) <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 02:12:21 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:12:21 -0000 Subject: Do Animagi choose their forms? and the change over to yahoo groups In-Reply-To: <3A71F7E0.67621CC8@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: <94taq5+l2ej@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10892 What you said about James being tall is true- but don't you think we should leave Harry to grow, as he's not finished yet? Perhaps he'll experience a growth spurt or something...... And James, to my knowledge, is only described as tall as an adult, but they don't talk about his height from when he was at Hogwarts, do they? Isabelle --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Pam Hugonnet wrote: > > > Catlady wrote: > > > ANIMAGI FILK > > Caius Marcius wrote: (The Scene: Behind locked doors at Gryffindor, a > > generation or so distant. Three friends of Remus Lupin, SIRIUS BLACK, > > JAMES POTTER, and PETER PETTIGREW have reached the point in their > > Animagi studies that they are now ready to select the type of animal > > into which they will transform) > > > > The song is cute, but IIRC it has a Major Factual Error: Animagi don't > > get to CHOOSE their animal form, they just get stuck with the luck of > > the draw. I've often wondered if they could get a second animal form by > > going through the 'dangerous' Animagus process a second time. > > > > Really? Is this so? Do you have a reference in the book where it says > so? I'm curious because I had always imagined that > that there was some degree of choice involved. Maybe the number of choices > is limited by some inherent characteristic of the person--for example, > Pettigrew's rat-like qualities are so apparent he'd likely not have any > success in transforming himself into a lion, but he might have success with > another rodent-type creature. I guess I've come up with this theory because > McGonagal doesn't seem very cat-like to me; I figured that a cat was her > choice, not her destiny. > > Catlady continued: > > > Someone already commented that James was Chaser, not Seeker. I have a > > problem with JKR having said that. She firmly established how much > > Harry resembles James physically, and she had Wood state that Harry is > > the right build for a Seeker, so therefore James would also have been > > the right build for a Seeker. The fans were all sure that James was a > > Seeker and were all wrong. > > Harry does resemble James, but they are different in one fundamental > way: James was tall (it's one of his more referred to characteristics, right > along with the untidy hair) and Harry is very short. I would think that > being tall would be a disadvantage for a seeker and an advantage for a > chaser. I always imagined James as the keeper myself. I also suspect that > we will learn that Godric Gryffindor was very short as well. > > > > As for this change to yahoo groups, is there anything that is absolutely > vital that needs to be changed? Will my mail still show up in my inbox or > do I have resubscribe? > > drpam of Gryffindor > who is mostly albus dumbledore and charlie weasley, with a little Hermione > for good measure and nothing at all like Lord Voldemort (at least according > to the character quiz.) From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 02:16:12 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:16:12 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <013301c087e6$89035a20$b264883e@co.uk> Message-ID: <94tb1c+r3mf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10893 Add Isabelle onto the list of H/H shippers! I'm a big fan, though not so vocal at this point, because of trying to swamp through web only messages on the site! Isabelle --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Heather Edmonds" wrote: > I think ther's more than one Heather, so if teh Heather listed wasn't me. > There's me Heather Edmonds too. After writing a sentence like that I'm > surprised I passed my grammer test but fortunately I did. > > Heather > "...Words strain, > crack and sometimes break, under the burden, > under the tension, slip, slide, perish, > decay with imprecision, will not stay in place, > will not stay still. > Eliot, 1944. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 7:19 AM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? > > > > All right, I've had it. :-) > > > > First, I get mildly rebuked for my choice of words... by my captain > > *and* the cruise director, no less! > > > > Then no-shipper Neil draws a *hilarious* analogy to the Titanic and > > sinks us. (That was funny... every time I remember that thread, I > > smile!) > > > > Now the good ship R/H is throwing a party. I was quiet about it and > > even grinned a little as I made observations and jotted them down in > > my little notebook. I really don't mind R/H in small doses. > > However, the minute I saw the One Big Happy Weasley Family banner > > flying I *had* to abort that phase of the experiment for the sake of > > my gastrointestinal well-being. > > > > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > > > Penny > > Carole > > Lori > > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > > Scott > > Heather > > Heidi > > > > I do believe there's more of you out there. > > > > Here's an incentive: if the other H/Hers weren't so shy and > > apologetic around these parts, I'd post less! (Knew that would make > > you come out of the woodwork! ) It's time for me to take a > > break... I've a science experiment I plan to check on this weekend. > > > > We've been at war long enough, my dear H/H friends. How about we > > throw the party to end all parties? (C'mon--you *know* we're the > > party crowd!) And while we're at it--why not pour out some of these > > theories we've been keeping in our wine closets like rare champagne? > > (Unless we're still aging them properly, of course. If that is the > > case, we shall wait for a more special occasion.) > > > > Best, > > > > Ebony > > > > (Sidebar: In a post that Hotmail will send to the list one day, I > > made the observation that I--Ebony AKA AngieJ--the one responsible > > for the terms "destroyer" and "disorder". No one else on my ship > > used those terms! That forthcoming post also addresses the mythic > > notion that R/Hers are by nature more docile than we are... and I > > hope to create a thread about the correlation between ship theory and > > canonical interpretation in general. I suspect that we *are* reading > > different sides of the same Galleon. *Please* look for it.) > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > > > > > From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 27 02:20:41 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (lj2d30 at gateway.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:20:41 -0000 Subject: Magical notions of prejudice In-Reply-To: <94p8kh+g5jp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94tb9p+eoo6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10894 Amy Z said: Ron's "get away from me, werewolf!" in the Shrieking Shack is a very painful moment IMO. He's in agony and he thinks Lupin has betrayed and is about to kill them all, so it's very understandable, but it shows a bigotry that is disturbing just the same. (To his credit, he doesn't hold Hagrid's background against him at all.) I think Ron's acceptance of Hagrid's giant heritage is an example of how he has matured in the year between the Shrieking Shack and the Skeeter tell-all article. He learned that werewolves and escaped Azkaban prisoners were not the terrors he thought they were. Plus he had known Hagrid for a longer period of time, so the trust was already there. Trina From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 02:31:04 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 18:31:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Slogans, Get Your Slogans Here! Message-ID: <20010127023104.18514.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10895 Cassie so Scathingly wrote: >I wouldn't say CoS was all about Ginny. She was a Plot >Device and had >less lines than Aragog, the giant spider. She served >her purpose and >made about as big an impression with her personality >as Buckbeak did >in Book 3, only she was less useful. >As for the "Harry hooks up with Ginny because there >are no other ?witches" theory, well, that's a new one on me. H/G out >of Total >Desperation, eh? Just because JKR hasn't mentioned >them, I can't >imagine that there aren't just as many witches as >wizards at >Hogwarts, at least I hope so. It would be rather >depressing if at the >end of the 7th book, Harry has to marry Ginny because >there just >aren't any other females his age and he's desperate to >reproduce the >Potter genetic code. First off: and now- ::coughs and glances back and forth nervously:: Er- skippers of the H/G ship, this is your cue to jump in. Come on, don't be shy, I might come up with good R/H slogans, but not even Aragog could face down Cassie alone! Speaking of slogans, how about this one for H/G- "Anything Beats Cho" or if you want my theory- "Process of Elemination Can Work" ::snicker:: and one for the H/H-ers- "We Can Dream, Can't We?" And a general shout out to the H/H crowd (just to keep things lively, of course) - "It's not everyday you see a boat with multiple poop decks!" heh, However you want to interprate that is fine. Ginny Love -------------------------------------------------- "R/H: It Just Makes Sense" -------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 27 02:33:31 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:33:31 -0600 Subject: One Big, Happy Weasley Family References: <94ta64+updd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A72337B.635DFBD0@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10896 Hi -- moongirlk at yahoo.com wrote: Even though this was addressed to Cassie's post, I'll respond quickly since I know I posted along the same lines -- > Then why make the comparison? I'm not asking for the natural laws of > the universe to be broken, just for the poor kid to get a loving, > supportive, happy place to be after it's all over. Why is that so bad? It's not bad to wish Harry will have a happy supportive family someday. But, I don't think One Big Happy Weasley Family is the *only* way for that to happen. Why *couldn't* he be happy with Hermione? Why couldn't he be happy playing the field until he's 35? I'm not suggesting Harry shouldn't be happy at the end of the series (or that he shouldn't have a glimmer of happiness lurking on the horizon in any case). But, I don't think JKR is likely to go for the "tie everything up in a neat little bow" Victorian novel ending that One Big Happy Weasley Family requires (isn't there an English lit term for this -- gads, it's been too many years! Ebony?). I think it would be hard work for JKR to make that sort of ending plausible & satisfying to the discerning readers. It seems like adherents to this theory tend to pair off Ron with Hermione and then say, "ooh, what about Harry? Oh, well, he can be with Ginny and then everyone's happy" (which, btw, *is* the "Harry Problem" that the R/H'ers insist doesn't exist -- pairing him off with Ginny (who's a sidelines character that we don't know much about at this point) because they've paired Hermione off with Ron). > Are you saying that if there is some incarnation of the happy family > theory in the end, you will think less of JKR and no longer respect her > work? I really do want to know - would it affect you that > way? It would depend on how it was done (IMO). I think it would be an amazing feat if she takes what she has said will become a darker, more complex series & then gives the whole thing a believable happy ending along the lines of One Big Happy Weasley Family. I guess I sort of expect an ending that doesn't tie everything up entirely -- leaves some things to the reader's imagination. Just my 2 galleons -- Penny From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 02:38:03 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:38:03 -0600 Subject: But he's *faking*! References: <94s0is+aelo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A72348A.D8340BE4@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10897 donna.rae at verizon.net wrote: > We all know that Malfoy was pretending, > but why couldn't the teachers see that? I'm betting they could. This is the sort of thing one cannot prove, that someone's lying about being in pain. How do you prove they're not in pain? Plus, this is right in line with the fairly hands-off approach of the Hogwarts administration. They seem much more willing than most American adults I know of, to allow their charges to get a taste of life as it will be--i.e., they don't try to make everything fair, they don't sugarcoat that there are nasty folk out there, and they let students work things out themselves. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 02:41:03 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:41:03 -0600 Subject: Hormone bombs References: <01c0879a$a2494cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <3A72353F.5B84ED95@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10898 Monika Huebner wrote: > Well, teenage boys aren't very sensitive most of the time, they are > some sort of "hormone bombs" (sorry to all you guys, I know there are > exceptions to this rule :-)) Hey, at least most of *them* grow out of it. The above is my definition of the mental state of PMS, which cometh and goeth like the tide, but the eternal ocean remaineth ever, if you get my drift. Unless you're pregnant, in which case it cometh and stayeth for nine or more months. --Amanda, whose beloved called her "pregzilla" for a *reason* From catlady at wicca.net Sat Jan 27 02:41:34 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:41:34 -0000 Subject: HI from the shadows/Wizarding Education In-Reply-To: <20010127020548.5449.qmail@web313.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94tcgu+i3lt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10899 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Jenna Tichon wrote: > > Then there are my few questions I have on this wizarding world: > > 1)Where do wizards get any excercise? The only sport that they > seem to know is quidditch which isn't much on the cardiovascular > side and not too many people seem to play it. They just observe > it. So how do they stay in shape? The kids at Hogwarts have to walk/run/climb many miles a day just to get to their classes and dorms. EG, the trek to the Divination classroom! Perhaps that is enough to work off all the food they eat and stay beautiful. Maybe the grown-ups (ones who can afford it, not Molly and Arthur Weasley) have stay-trim-and-attractive spells. > > 2)Where's the culture? (snip) There's no one who seems to draw > or anything. Dean Thomas 'who was good at drawing' drew the Gryffindor Lion on one of the pro-Harry banners for his first Quidditch match. Of course, Dean was Muggle-born. However, this does hint that they don't have a Charm to make nice pictures appear without the chore of drawing them. > 3)What happens for education before Hogwarts? This question has > been asked atleast three times since I've joined and no one's ever > discussed it. We discussed this to death 'way back in the old Yahoo days, and people failed to agree with my obviously correct theory that most wizarding children attend small, local, wizarding primary schools that are private schools (in the American sense) and charge tuition. Families who can't afford the tuition have the choice of home schooling or sending their children to Muggle primary school. The Malfoys use an expensive type of home schooling, in which they hire several private tutors, specialists in various subjects, to teach their son at home, and also invite some of their friends to send their children to share the education: the young Crabbe, Goyle, and Nott. Maybe the young Pansy Parkinson, too, if the families were already trying to match-make them. People generally assume that the Weasley crowd was home-schooled, because if they had gone to Muggle schools, they would know more about telephones and 50p coins, and their parents would have have trouble paying that many tuitions. From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 02:43:13 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:43:13 -0600 Subject: Direction of Pettigrew's spell References: <01c0879a$a2494cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <3A7235C0.E3745F0F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10900 Monika Zaboklicka wrote: > That's what I see in the eyes of my weird imgaination: > Sirius notices Peter in a crowded street when they are some 20 meters from > each other and calls him. Pettigrew turns round, recognizes Sirius, turns > white and shouts that Black betrayed the Potters. Sirius, blind with fury, > reaches for his wand but his hands tremble with anger so much that he can't > take it out of his pocket. Petigrew casts his spell - not Avada Kevadra, > some other spell - huge ball of orange light moves torwards Sirius, it tears > the street open like an eartquake, killing people and speading havoc. > Pettigrew turns into a rat immediately after casting the spell and escapes, > Sirius manages to take his wand out of his pocket at last and anihilates the > ball of light when it's just a couple of feet away from him. But didn't it say someplace that Pettigrew cast the spell behind him, so it would look like it came from Sirius' wand? Anyone behind him who saw this would have been killed, and the witnesses on other sides would think Sirius did it. So he didn't cast anything toward Sirius at all. He was trying for cover, not to get Sirius. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 02:46:30 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:46:30 -0600 Subject: OT--English classes References: Message-ID: <3A723686.9A776E61@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10901 jessenigma at aol.com wrote: > I never met a group of people > that could analyze so many details to death. I must say, though, analyzing > Harry Potter *is* much better than finding deep symbolism in Grapes of Wrath. > Shame the English department at school would never consider these books. :) Jessica, young thing, you are pretty much at the least interesting stage of Official Literature Study right now--you have arrived at an age where you can observe and conclude--i.e., actually think--but are not allowed to. You will find two things as you continue your education: (1) instructors are increasingly willing to let you think your own thoughts and express them (culminating in graduate school, where you *have* to), and (2) loads more people fixated on analyzing teeny details to maddening levels of minutiae. Welcome! --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 02:53:09 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:53:09 -0600 Subject: Weak link in reanimation spell References: <94r12m+fbr5@eGroups.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20010126161453.009f9720@mail.realmofshadow.com> Message-ID: <3A723815.C29CE4B3@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10902 Tanith wrote: > Flesh of the servant willingly given: If the above follows, than the flesh > of the servant would be the flesh of the one that serves the father....so > it would need to be V's flesh.... If there's any weak link, this might be it. "Willingly." Hmmm. I'd characterize Wormtail as being under duress--about as willing as a beaten wife who stays with her tormentor. He's not a cheerful giver, if you get my drift. I think he only helped Voldemort rise as self-protection, since he knows the other Voldemort supporters would cheerfully do unimaginable things to him if they found he was alive. > Blood of the enemy forcibly taken: First, Harry's blood was not forcibly > taken...unwillingly given, yes...but forcibly taken? He had no opportunity > to stuggle as he was tied tightly to the tombstone, Pettigrew simply sliced > Harry's arm and drew blood, he did not take it using force... Looked like force to me. They forced him to the stone, force him to remain tied there, use force to make the wound......this is like saying it isn't rape if the woman is restrained so that she cannot kick or scream. Hmph. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 02:55:26 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:55:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] FITD?! (Was Re: The Ship Hits the Fan) References: <94qv79+481o@eGroups.com> <3A71EF9D.3F9423DD@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A72389D.585083C0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10903 Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > In brief, the FITD theory holds: > > Ron likes Hermione > Hermione likes Harry > Harry likes either no one or someone outside the Trio (like Cho in GoF) > > Ergo ... R/H is not possible because Hermione doesn't return Ron's > obvious feelings. Which makes the rhyme Farmer in the Dell relevant how? I'm sorry, I know the rhyme, and although I never played the game I've read the description, but I've never had any internal "Aha!" as to why this is called by this term. Could I have a very Dick'n'Jane explanation? It bugs me that I don't get this. --Amanda From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 02:58:36 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:58:36 -0000 Subject: Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) In-Reply-To: <94t7o0+oj26@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94tdgs+hjjk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10904 Kimberly:"My inner child adores Ginny, the font of potential, and wants to see her do something wonderful and heroic and have Harry suddenly notice what a lovely shade of burnt umber her freckles turn when she's embarrassed." Love that image! Poetry. "...my inner pranksters (in Weasley sweaters, of course) steal the party pooper's prefect badge and charm it to say naughty words. So as you can see, I've been rather in a tizzy lately. But if you're willing to allow such a schizophrenic mess as myself aboard, the SS H/G sounds like a cozy little home. Maybe we can meet up with the Good Ship R/H at Party Cove? I think it's a demilitarized zone, so we should be safe!" There is no safe place for us. We must conceal our ship in little hidden coves, creeping out to snap up a prize whenever we find one, flying our flag (an "HG" surrounded by nine red heads and two dark ones) and singing our war song, "We are Family", but with the words "We are family, now that I've got Ginny with me, We are family, Ron can have Hermione!!" All of us are outcasts. this is your true home. From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 03:01:02 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:01:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Do Animagi choose their forms? and the change over to yahoo groups References: <3A7131BC.7025470C@wicca.net> <3A71F7E0.67621CC8@tidalwave.net> Message-ID: <3A7239EE.FA3F842A@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10905 Pam Hugonnet wrote: > Really? Is this so? Do you have a reference in the book where it says > so? I'm curious because I had always imagined that > that there was some degree of choice involved. Well, I got that impression from JKR saying that if she were an animagus, she hoped she'd be an otter, because she likes otters. The implication was strong that no choice is involved. It sounds like your animal is sort of a reflection or distillation of your personality. As I recall, she said this at some e-chat, when someone asked her about what she'd be. > I guess I've come up with this theory because > McGonagal doesn't seem very cat-like to me; I figured that a cat was her > choice, not her destiny. She seems tremendously cat-like to me! Hmm. --Amanda From malinaschick at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 03:02:24 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:02:24 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchendise Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10906 Christy wrote: <> I have only seen one set of bookends that I really like, and it was in a harry potter collectables book that my mother got me. It was of Harry going into the fat lady on one side, and ron sitting in the common room on the other. I find that ron seems to be ignored a lot and i hate that and these look really cool...I also already have two journals I got for x-mas, my prefered being the one from my friend Jim with the hogwarts crest, he penned me a poem on the inside. :) But I was writing because I enjoyed your spelling of 'Barnes and Knoble' and wondered why you wrote it like that...The only reason I would know is because of Knobles...but no one knows what that is. ;) @~~~ Steph "It's really name is Pigwidgeon." -Ginny (I enjoy that cuz part of my last name is in Pig's name-Widge[r]) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 03:02:35 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:02:35 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] YahooGroups changeover (response to Pam H.) References: Message-ID: <3A723A4B.9E5D08AF@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10907 As for the changeover, will our emails to the group start showing our Yahoo names as the sender? In other words, will you start seeing stuff from "mandolabar" rather than "Amanda Lewanski"? --Amanda From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Sat Jan 27 03:00:08 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 22:00:08 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: One Big, Happy Weasley Family References: <94ta64+updd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <033f01c0880d$43958a40$7a4ad63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10908 ----- Original Message ----- From: > > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., cassandraclaire at m... wrote: > > > Then why make the comparison? I'm not asking for the natural laws of > the universe to be broken, just for the poor kid to get a loving, > supportive, happy place to be after it's all over. Why is that so > bad? I admit it's not necessarily the most realistic, or the > most likely thing to happen, but I can't for the life of me understand > why people seem to feel it's a bad thing to wish for. If there were > an option for me in my life to get the happy family scenario, I > certainly wouldn't pass it up to avoid being cliche. Would you? > Why does Harry have to marry Ginny in order to have the Weasleys as part of his family? Harry is and always will be a part of that family, no matter who he ends up with. > , but I don't think I'd be alone in > > finding it cloying. One of the most attractive aspects of the HP > > books, and part of the reason I believe it appeals so much to > adults, > > is its bracing lack of sentimentality. When Harry finds out he has a > > loving godfather, he * doesn't* get to go live with him and spend > the > > rest of his summers toasting marshmallows with Sirius on camping > > trips. > > YET - you can't allow something like that to happen in book 3 of a 7 > book series that depends on pathos, but at the end, why not allow them > to have that relationship? Too easy....as Penny just posted...I really can't see JKR tying everything up in a nice happy bow! > I always see JKR > > choosing the less sentimental, less **pathos-driven narrative path > and > > I don't see why she'd change that when the series ends. > > Because happy endings requires unhappy beforehand? But just because its not One big happy weasely family does not mean its not a happy ending for Harry! It just might happen that Harry meets a wonderful exchange student in the end and lives happily ever after....the OBHWF is not the only happy ending possible. Dare I say Harry might fall in love with Hermione and still have a happy ending? > Kimberly, > who doesn't mind cliches if they allow her heros to be happy But why can't the hero be happy in a story that wasn't cliched...then the readers would be happier. carole who does not pretend to be a spokesperson for cassie...she just plays one on this list. From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 03:06:46 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:06:46 -0600 Subject: How Harry could have killed Sirius References: <3A72262E.C4E869D0@wicca.net> Message-ID: <3A723B45.7E9F6E4D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10909 Catlady wrote: > He could have levitated a heavy object and dropped it on Sirius's head, > like the club on the troll in SS. He probably wasn't thinking clearly > enough to transfigure part of Sirius's aorta into tissue paper, that > would instantly become wet, tear, and result in death by massive > hemorrhage. Bleah. Remind me to stay on your good side. But I will point out that your suggestion, creative as it was, isn't painful in the least, and Harry probably was wanting to hurt him. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Sat Jan 27 03:11:05 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 21:11:05 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Magical notions of prejudice References: <94tb9p+eoo6@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A723C49.CF251807@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10910 lj2d30 at gateway.net wrote: > I think Ron's acceptance of Hagrid's giant heritage is an example of > how he has matured in the year between the Shrieking Shack and the > Skeeter tell-all article. He learned that werewolves and escaped > Azkaban prisoners were not the terrors he thought they were. Plus he > had known Hagrid for a longer period of time, so the trust was > already there. A good point. When Harry suddenly was revealed as a Parselmouth, Ron's concern was all for what this meant to Harry, not that Harry was a danger. Ron's take on Hagrid seems of the same type--that it's a bad thing for Hagrid to have to deal with, in that others will treat him or think of him badly. Again, though, being a werewolf is not something inborn. It's a disease, which removes self-control from the victim, and is terrifying, incurable, painful (as Lupin said), and rather contagious. I can totally understand Ron's reaction. He comes around rather quickly, give him a break. --Amanda From andrea at noembromation.com.br Sat Jan 27 03:39:02 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (andrea at noembromation.com.br) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 03:39:02 -0000 Subject: Book prices In-Reply-To: <94t800+dord@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94tfsm+ovfh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10911 Christian asked: > What are nromal prices for the translated versions of the Harry > Potter-books? The Norwegian edition of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" > (GoF bot being translated to Norwegian yet) goes for USD30/GBP20 per > copy - How does this compare to other countries? Geez, Christian, I thought books in Brazil were expensive! Here, we pay around USD13 for Books 1 to 3 (GoF hasn't been translated either). Andrea From s_ings at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 03:54:41 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:54:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius & I/Carole (OT) Message-ID: <20010127035441.28735.qmail@web217.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10912 --- Carole Estes wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sheryll Townsend" > > > I am slightly north of your ship's location - > floating > > gently across the sea on a small but luxurious > yacht > > called the 'Sirius & I'. I rather suspect Carole > will > > be jumping ship and joining me. Carole, your > stateroom > > is ready. > > > > Ummm...can I apparate there? As much as I love the > SS H/H...I must admit to > being compelled by the smaller more "intimate" > accommodations on Sheryll's > yacht....I'll come and support the SS H/H in times > of trouble...but what can > I say about a private stateroom on the "Sirius and > I" You may apparate here anytime - dinner and champagne will be awaiting your arrival. I will join you in assisting the SS H/H when necessary, but my loyalty lies with the Sirius. > By the way, Sheryll, do you still have my > transmission? and could you bring > it to Providence with you when you come? > I will bring your transmission, but how are you going to get to dinner without it, magic? > Further BTW...I saw a man who was the spitting image > of Sirius at the mall > the other night, right down to a black leather > jacket...I so wish I'd had a > camera! I would have pulled a Peg and asked for a > picture under the guise of > being a writer! Sigh.... > > carole I am so tempted to do the same. There was a student writing the Bar this year who looked soooooo much like Sirius. I have a chance to attend their acceptance ceremonies at the end of Feb - perhaps I should take a camera? Sheryll ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 27 04:29:01 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (lj2d30 at gateway.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 04:29:01 -0000 Subject: more merchandise! In-Reply-To: <3A70D5D7.EC5DC4E4@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <94tiqd+le9n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10913 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., heidi wrote: , I *really really need* a Golden Snitch > Lamp for my desk at work (and one for my son harry's room as well) - I *really, really need* one myself for my living room bookcase. Trina From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 27 04:43:02 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (lj2d30 at gateway.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 04:43:02 -0000 Subject: R/H-er speaks (was The Ship Hits the Fan) In-Reply-To: <94qleb+drtg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94tjkm+91p9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10914 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., ebonyink at h... wrote: > I loved the specific theoretical points you made... I loved the LMM > refs because she is by far my favorite "children's" author (I really do think Trina, Maria (from the PoU list), and I are the only Maud fanatics and firm H/H shippers I've ever come across)... and I love what you've brought to this debate. > > Interested in joining Kindred Spirits, Rina? Drop me a line off > list. :-) 'Scuse me! I don't believe I have ever stated a shipping preference publicly. Although, if I were to do so, I would hope that each of the three would ship out with heretofore unknown witches/wizards to be named later. But if push came to shove and I *had* to make a ship preference, it would be (sorry to disappoint you, Ebony) R/H. But, like I said, I would hope that they all meet someone else and they can all vacation together like the couples in "The Four Seasons" (without the personality conflicts and divorce) Trina From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 05:01:43 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:01:43 -0000 Subject: The Trio and the nature of love Message-ID: <94tknn+p4s1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10915 We've been debating relationship preferences for a while and the significance of events like The Kiss or Ron and Hermione's squabbles, but we all ignore the fact the three love each other already. In our society we don't talk about love amongst friends, and we certainly don't talk about males loving each other unless we're writing slash fic, but it's real. the bond between Harry, Hermione, and Ron is so strong that an outside mate might have trouble understanding it. This could be the ultimate no-shipper's argument. Anybody they might meet might seem to pale compared to the friend they saved the universe with. What happens when the intimate bond comes before the romantic attraction? Hermione was preparing Harry to fight for his life before she had a chance to see him as a potential mate. They've all been through intense experiences together. I put words in Hermione's mouth once: "we never had the time." Will this apply to Ron and Hermione? Maybe not, but they grew up together too. The shipper debates will never end. Hopefully they'll stay in the lighthearted vein they are now. JKR's got a lot more to say about friendship; let's not forget it either. From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sat Jan 27 05:03:02 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (lj2d30 at gateway.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:03:02 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94tkq6+34s9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10916 Andrea wrote: As early as CoS, it's Ron who has to be held back when Hermione is picked on, even before he really notices she's a girl. And all their bickering seems an adolescent way of covering up what is going on below the surface. Yes!!! I thought of this last night as I was getting ready for bed. It was *Ron* leapt to Hermione's defence when Malfoy called her a Mudblood and wound up belching slugs all day. Granted, Harry was unaware of how truly nasty it was, but it was the Weasley boys who tried to take action. (A quick glance at CoS, showed me that Gred and Forge also tried to jump Malfoy just before Ron whipped out his wand) Oh, my gracious. I think I've just outed myself as an R/H shipper! Trina (who also just realized one could read the sentence in the parentheses in a *whole* other light! ) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 05:18:30 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:18:30 -0000 Subject: One Big, Happy Weasley Family In-Reply-To: <3A72337B.635DFBD0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94tln6+6nqp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10917 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > moongirlk at y... wrote: > > Even though this was addressed to Cassie's post, I'll respond quickly > since I know I posted along the same lines -- > > > Then why make the comparison? I'm not asking for the natural laws of > > the universe to be broken, just for the poor kid to get a loving, > > supportive, happy place to be after it's all over. Why is that so bad? > > It's not bad to wish Harry will have a happy supportive family someday. > But, I don't think One Big Happy Weasley Family is the *only* way for that > to happen. Why *couldn't* he be happy with Hermione? He probably could. I'm not saying he can't, or that the happy family idea is the only way, I'm just responding to the way some people react to the idea. Whenever it comes up people act like it's a completely invalid possibility - like it would be the weak way out, so I had to defend it. It's my personal choice for a wish - not an expectation, but a wish for something pleasant and happy after all the strife. I just choose to like this idea because it gives them *all* the opportunity to be happy *together*. I'm not trying to say you should feel the same way I do, just that it seems kinda strange that people hate the idea so much. Is it just because it's not H/H? Or is there something I'm missing that makes it so laughable? Why couldn't he be > happy playing the field until he's 35? He could, and then end up with Ginny - I certainly don't think they'll be getting married in the great hall at the end-of-year feast or anything! I'm not suggesting Harry shouldn't > be happy at the end of the series (or that he shouldn't have a glimmer of > happiness lurking on the horizon in any case). But, I don't think JKR is > likely to go for the "tie everything up in a neat little bow" Victorian > novel ending that One Big Happy Weasley Family requires (isn't there an > English lit term for this -- gads, it's been too many years! Ebony?). I > think it would be hard work for JKR to make that sort of ending plausible > & satisfying to the discerning readers. See - that's why I had to respond - you imply that those of us who like the idea are somehow discernment challenged. Can't help it if that kinda irks me. > > It seems like adherents to this theory tend to pair off Ron with Hermione > and then say, "ooh, what about Harry? Oh, well, he can be with Ginny and > then everyone's happy" (which, btw, *is* the "Harry Problem" that the > R/H'ers insist doesn't exist -- pairing him off with Ginny (who's a > sidelines character that we don't know much about at this point) because > they've paired Hermione off with Ron). I can't say for everyone, but you've completely missed the point with me, because I want Ginny and Harry together because I want them together, not because he can't be with Hermione. I have no Harry problem. I think he and Hermione are ill-suited (and as an aside, that Hermione and Ron would, as they mature, bring out the best in each other [see the Buckbeak incident that ended the Scabbers/Crookshanks argument]). Ginny, while initially star-struck, was very cute and witty in her early pursuit of Harry (c'mon - you can't be a little moved by the fresh-pickled toad rhyme? It's adorable!). And I think she has already matured quite a lot. I have mentioned before her grace in the situation with Neville and the Yule Ball, and the way she comforted Ron after the Fleur incident. She seems to be Hermione's closest girl friend, and Hermione's a pretty decent judge of character. I think her experience with Riddle is going to end up being helpful to the gang in general at some point, as she probably knows some things about Voldemort's childhood self that nobody else really can. I don't think JKR would have wasted her time making Ginny the 'plot device' as somebody put it, in CoS if she didn't intend on using her in some significant way in the future, and I think she will be shown to be a good match for Harry. It's a gut thing, and the happy family is a very cheerful, huge added bonus, in my opinion. > > > Are you saying that if there is some incarnation of the happy family > > theory in the end, you will think less of JKR and no longer respect her > > work? I really do want to know - would it affect you that > > way? > > It would depend on how it was done (IMO). I think it would be an amazing > feat if she takes what she has said will become a darker, more complex > series & then gives the whole thing a believable happy ending along the > lines of One Big Happy Weasley Family. I guess I sort of expect an ending > that doesn't tie everything up entirely -- leaves some things to the > reader's imagination. Very possible, in fact probable, but it doesn't stop me from liking the idea, and it wouldn't stop me from being thrilled if she did it, nor do I think it would cheapen the story, as so many seem to think. kimberly the undescerning reader ;) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 05:31:12 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:31:12 -0000 Subject: defending ginny again (was Re: Slogans, Get Your Slogans Here!) In-Reply-To: <20010127023104.18514.qmail@web11703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <94tmf0+qimj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10918 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Ginny Love wrote: > > Cassie so Scathingly wrote: > > >I wouldn't say CoS was all about Ginny. She was a > Plot >Device and had > >less lines than Aragog, the giant spider. She served > >her purpose and > >made about as big an impression with her personality > >as Buckbeak did > >in Book 3, only she was less useful. > >As for the "Harry hooks up with Ginny because there > >are no other > ?witches" theory, well, that's a new one on me. H/G > out >of Total > >Desperation, eh? Just because JKR hasn't mentioned > >them, I can't > >imagine that there aren't just as many witches as > >wizards at > >Hogwarts, at least I hope so. It would be rather > >depressing if at the > >end of the 7th book, Harry has to marry Ginny because > >there just > >aren't any other females his age and he's desperate > to >reproduce the > >Potter genetic code. > > First off: and now- ::coughs and glances back and > forth nervously:: Er- skippers of the H/G ship, this > is your cue to jump in. Come on, don't be shy, I might > come up with good R/H slogans, but not even Aragog > could face down Cassie alone! > Errr... *looking around for my new cap'n...* (shrug) *stepping up, shaking out my still-wet clothes* I'm only just a soggy new recruit to the H/G barge, or whatever it is (haven't gotten a chance to look around yet), but I'll speak up! Ahem. Ok, all this Weasley bashing has got to stop! :) I insist that Ginny is a sweet, kind, wonderful person who was sorted into Gryffindor for a *reason*. She is going to prove an invaluable part of the fight against Voldemort and his minions - I promise! If you don't think so, I'd be willing to make a little wager ;) Anybody wanna work this out with me? I don't generally make bets - cap'n - any iea of fun terms? ACHOOO! Oh dear - I think I'd better see if there are any dry clothes on board! Kimberly From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 05:36:54 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony AKA AngieJ) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:36:54 -0000 Subject: Shipper Peace/The Trio and the nature of love In-Reply-To: <94tknn+p4s1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94tmpm+4c5b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10919 (NOTE TO ADMIN: Hopefully, this is not a duplicate post. I've been having website and e-mail woes for almost three days now.) The ship debates have been fun. It's been great being on the front lines. However, I have a science project that needs my full attention... not to mention a FAQ to finally upload. One ship debate led to my starting the science project... it seems as if another will lead to my finishing it. :-) So I'll be returning to my cabin for a while to check on my test tubes, beakers, and Bunsen burners. Of course, should my captain and shipmates need me... I have one more post that will show up on the list whenever Hotmail- gone-haywire decides to send it to the Yahoo! group. I really hope that this forthcoming post starts a thread that will connect shipping posts to the other theoretical strands. I believe that fans traveling on the two major ships are reading not two different books-- but have *completely* different ways in reading canon that extends far beyond ship preferences. More to come soon. Jim's theory below intrigues me. We travel on different ships, but I agree point-for-point with his observations. > We've been debating relationship preferences for a while and the > significance of events like The Kiss or Ron and Hermione's squabbles, but we all ignore the fact the three love each other already. This is the underlying sentiment behind volatile terms such as the "Ron problem" and the "Harry problem". Western culture is binary. We're not used to thinking in threes. That's part of the problem. > In our society we don't talk about love amongst friends, and we > certainly don't talk about males loving each other unless we're > writing slash fic, but it's real. the bond between Harry, Hermione, > and Ron is so strong that an outside mate might have trouble > understanding it. Unless something happens to sever the bond, I came to this conclusion as well. Even in the R/H & H/G scenario, the triple dynamic would remain. It's also much too "neat" of an arrangement for JKR. It doesn't fit her writing style any more than the ending of EQ fit LMM's. > This could be the ultimate no-shipper's argument. Anybody they might meet might seem to pale compared to the friend they saved the universe with. What happens when the intimate bond comes before the romantic attraction? JKR's got a lot more to say about > friendship; let's not forget it either. Thanks for the reminder, Jim. This post and other conversations have really made me take a step back and consider. It's a variable that I'll definitely incorporate into my own project. I hope that other sailors, whatever vessel they might travel on, will keep this in mind. --Ebony AKA AngieJ (P.S. Speaking of which, in Cassie's latest chapter of *Draco Sinister*, she does explore this question a bit in a conversation between Ron and Hermione... in case you didn't know, DS at this point is H/H. I appreciated the scene a lot. My favorite aspect of the canon up to this point is the Friendship--which is why I like to dissect it so much. :-)) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 05:57:41 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:57:41 -0000 Subject: Ginny (wasRe: Getting Shippy With It) In-Reply-To: <94tdgs+hjjk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94to0l+igg2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10920 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Jim Ferer" wrote: > Kimberly:"My inner child adores Ginny, the font of potential, and > wants to see her do something wonderful and heroic and have Harry > suddenly notice what a lovely shade of burnt umber her freckles turn > when she's embarrassed." > > Love that image! Poetry. > > "...my inner pranksters (in Weasley sweaters, of course) steal the > party pooper's prefect badge and charm it to say naughty words. So as > you can see, I've been rather in a tizzy lately. But if you're > willing to allow such a schizophrenic mess as myself aboard, the SS > H/G sounds like a cozy little home. Maybe we can meet up with the > Good Ship R/H at Party Cove? I think it's a demilitarized zone, so we > should be safe!" > > There is no safe place for us. We must conceal our ship in little > hidden coves, creeping out to snap up a prize whenever we find one, > flying our flag (an "HG" surrounded by nine red heads and two dark > ones) and singing our war song, "We are Family", but with the words > "We are family, now that I've got Ginny with me, We are family, Ron > can have Hermione!!" > > All of us are outcasts. this is your true home. Cap'n Jim, You've managed to make the whole thing sound rather scary and ominous, but I like the ship song! I'm ready to swab the deck if you like, if you'll just direct me to a swab, or a deck. Or a deck chair. *Looking around* Are we the only ones here? Are we a windjammer, a houseboat? an old criss craft Do we have a motto? How about: The sappy, the happy, the Ginny/Harry! Lead on cap'n! kimberly From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 27 06:00:02 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:00:02 -0500 Subject: Yo-ho-ho and a bottle of butterbeer! Message-ID: <200101270601.f0R611C16580@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10921 >Ginny Love wrote of the R/H ship: > >It just makes sense. The honorable R/H Captain Kathy responded: >Hmm, I think we have a new motto. I don't think I have ever in my life been referred to as "honorable" before! Ebony wrote: >GOAT! Where in tarnation *are* you? I'd better get that cheesy "the best >ship is friendship" in the mail soon... I did more than bite my tongue when >reading the above! That makes almost than a dozen R/H posts in the past 12 >hours that I responded nicely to or just kept quiet about. Just think of it as payback, my dear. ;) Ebony again: >Having said that, I must compliment my friend, the Captain of the R/H ship. >I've taken the full tour, and I must say that I'm impressed. What a >vessel... you go, girl! (Doesn't compete with blue snow, swing music, >hippogriffs, Hogsmere strolls, and *completely* insignificant GoF kisses >that no H/H shipper in her right mind should even care about, but hey--to >each her own!) :-) Gosh, thanks. You're welcome to visit anytime...as long as you're nice to Ron. Denigration of Weasleys of any kind will not be tolerated on the Good Ship R/H. Violators of this rule shall be forced to walk the plank. Christy wrote: << *splash* *splash* *splash* >Ahoy there! *arm waving in the water* Captain Kathy! Down here! >Permission to climb aboard! I see that my trusty First Mate has already welcomed you aboard (very efficient, that one! ) I trust your stateroom is to your liking? Ginny Love wrote: >R/H: "It just makes sense". Yeah, that's a good motto. >Right up there with "Read Goblet of Fire". As for >nautical terms, how about this?- Those H/H shippers >don't know a crowjeck from a scuttlebut. ::waves:: >Thank you, thank you, no applause, just throw money! May I offer you the position of Marketing Director aboard the Good Ship R/H? Zsenya wrote: >I hope it's not to late to catch the Good Ship R/H Never, we can apparate to your location and pick you up anywhere! Glad to have you aboard Zsenya! I'd been wondering where you were! And what job shall we give you? Zsenya again: >Kathy - I'm here, delurking in defense of Ron once >again! I'll join you on the SS R/H. It's early and I >don't know exactly what to say that I haven't said >before. That's okay! Every time the shipper thread comes around there's some repetition on both sides, but then your brilliant thoughts will start flowing! I've been thinking that part of the reason H/Hers perceive R/Hers as being so defensive is that we tend to leave the burden of proof up to them. (Because, as we know R/H just makes more sense! ) Ginny LOve wrote: >and one for the H/H-ers- >"We Can Dream, Can't We?" And a general shout out to >the H/H crowd (just to keep things lively, of course) >-"It's not everyday you see a boat with multiple poop >decks!" Oh, yeah, *definitely* our new Marketing Director! :) Trina wrote: >Yes!!! I thought of this last night as I was getting ready for bed. It was >*Ron* leapt to Hermione's defence when Malfoy called her a Mudblood and >wound up belching slugs all day. Granted, Harry was unaware of how truly >nasty it was, but it was the Weasley boys who tried to take action. (A quick >glance at CoS, showed me that Gred and Forge also tried to jump Malfoy just >before Ron whipped out his wand) You know, I think things like this are what bother me most about the H/H position. I know that H/Hers admit that Harry hasn't shown any interest in Hermione yet, and supposedly would in the future, but it seems to me that not only has he not shown any interest, he has been quite the opposite of interested in pretty much anything Hermione talks about or does. At least Ron argues with her, so he's showing some interest. And *Ron* was the one who noticed Hermione's weird schedule and the time turner slipups in PoA. It was always Ron pointing them out or noticing Hermione's feelings (example: I was just listening to the Hermione-walking-out-of-Divination scene today, and after she leaves it's *Ron* who says "Some day Hermione's having" while Harry's being distracted. Granted, Harry has reason to be distracted, but *still*.) I just don't see the evidence for a future H/H relationship. Trina again: >Oh, my gracious. I think I've just outed myself as an R/H shipper! *lurks hurt* You say that like it's bad thing. Seriously, Trina, climb right aboard the Good Ship R/H. We have an excellent midnight buffet. :) Oh, look at all the R/Hers! This is so cool! I'm dancing around on deck in glee... Kathy AKA Captain Elanor Gamgee From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sat Jan 27 06:11:45 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:11:45 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: <3b.fa64508.27a3c0a1@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10922 Trina, I nominate you for best inadvertent slash comment of the year! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From kathleen at carr.org Sat Jan 27 06:19:18 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:19:18 -0500 Subject: Happy Family and the G/H Message-ID: <200101270620.f0R6KGC21948@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 10923 Someone (I lost track of who, but now that I read it again, it *has* to be Penny ) wrote: > It seems like adherents to this theory tend to pair off Ron with Hermione > and then say, "ooh, what about Harry? Oh, well, he can be with Ginny and > then everyone's happy" (which, btw, *is* the "Harry Problem" that the > R/H'ers insist doesn't exist -- pairing him off with Ginny (who's a > sidelines character that we don't know much about at this point) because > they've paired Hermione off with Ron). I never said that R/H would not change the dynamic of the Trio, what I meant was that I don't see it being a *problem*. I don't get the impression that Harry's bothered at all by the idea of Ron and Hermione having a separate relationship, as long as the 3 of them are still friends. (Actually I got the impression that he would find it a huge relief if they would just admit their feelings to one another and get it over with!) But I digress (often and at length!)...what I wanted to say was that wanting H/G to develop a relationship isn't necessarily a corallary of R/H. And I don't think that those who propose it are doing it as a solution to any sort of "Harry problem" either. kimberly responded to Penny with: >I can't say for everyone, but you've completely missed the point with me, >because I want Ginny and Harry together because I want them together, not >because he can't be with Hermione. I have no Harry problem. I think he and >Hermione are ill-suited (and as an aside, that Hermione and Ron would, as >they mature, bring out the best in each other [see the Buckbeak incident >that ended the Scabbers/Crookshanks argument]). It's a gut thing, and >the happy family is a very cheerful, huge added bonus, in my opinion. Yes, I agree! The OBHWF idea may be cheesy and admittedly improbable in the canon (just because it would be too tidy, as Cassie pointed out) but it is appealing. And, depending on how they get there, it could cause all kinds of interesting situations. (Once again, I point to "The Best Man" series by Mrs. Weasley, which I know you are all tired of hearing from me about, but I think it provides an excellent example of how the parallel relationships could cause tensions, when one is working smoothly and the other is not). *And*, for those who say it's improbable, well, my brother and my cousin (who are also best friends) married 2 sisters. Stuff like this does happen in real life. Jim wrote: > You and I are on the very small H/G ship, oppressed and alone, being > pelted by pennies and beaten with clubs of ebony, and patronized > because we think One Big Happy Weasley Family isn't such a bad thing > after all. It's true we haven't had much to go on, and certainly > Ginny will have to get over her hero-worship of Harry for them to > develop anything real. Shared experience will do a lot to resolve > that, I hope, and then maybe we'll see something better than her being > shipped off to a creep like Draco. As Captain of the R/H ship, I hereby offer to tow you along with us, as you'll be needing protection from blasts of the SS H/H. (And for any of my loyal crew who object, I'll point out that we'll just use towlines--they are connected but separate ships after all.) I had so much more I wanted to say on this but it's now 1:15 am and I have to get up and go to work in a few hours! Eek, when did I get so irresponsible? Ah well, a shipper's duties are pressing. Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee, delighted R/H captain P.S. By the way, Elizabeth, you sure you don't want to reconsider and hop aboard our ship? We've got lots of Weasleys... From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sat Jan 27 07:10:42 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (cassandraclaire at mail.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 07:10:42 -0000 Subject: One Big, Happy Weasley Family In-Reply-To: <94ta64+updd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ts9i+7fij@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10924 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., moongirlk at y... wrote: > Cassie, > > The opposition to the happy family idea intrigues me, so I'm going to > just let loose (now that I've rereleased my shippy, emotional side) > and rant and ask all the questions I've been wondering about, and I've > chosen to do so in response to your post, but please, don't take this as an attack or anything, I just really honestly don't understand the opposition, and I really want to see where this is going. So here goes...(snip)If there were an option for me in my life to get the happy family scenario, I > certainly wouldn't pass it up to avoid being cliche. Would you?" Er, no. But this is real life, and the HP books are fiction. I do not want to see JKR streching her plot in unrealistic ways in order to hand her hero a happy scenario. Also, I completely agree with Carole in that Harry does not have to marry into the Weasleys to be part of their family. Mr and Mrs. Weasley already love him and he already is part of the family. > > Are you saying that if there is some incarnation of the happy family > theory in the end, you will think less of JKR and no longer > respect her work? I really do want to know - would it affect you that > way? > > Kimberly, > who doesn't mind cliches if they allow her heros to be happy --------------- Well, there you go. I do mind cliches, even if they allow my hero to be happy. Like Carole said, it's perfectly possible to have your hero be happy in an ending that isn't a cliche, and wouldn't that be much better? The opposition to the "Happy Family" idea is pretty much precisely what Penny and Carole have already leaped into the fray and stated -- that it would be an overly simplistic, and disingenuous-feeling conclusion. Everybody Gets A Weasley. I could cope with R/H, or H/G, but I find the concept of ending the series with the two couples simply too insipid-- or, as Kathy put it, cheesy. I have a romantic streak, and to an extent I like sap, but that would be too much for me. I love Harry. I want Harry to be happy. But I don't want an ending to my favorite series that's going to strike me as maudlin and insincere. I have faith in JKR though, which is why I partially agree with Kathy's post earlier in which she stated that though appealing, the OBHWF theory is unlikely to happen in canon. ("Too tidy.")So I am not worried. It's got nothing to do with being an H/H shipper, either. I am really quite an unfervent H/H shipper; I'd rather see Hermione with Draco (waits patiently while everyone screams) or someone we don't know, but I recognize that H/D is very unlikely in canon, so I'll take H/H as the lesser of two evils. The OBHWF theory bugs me in a whole different way. Cassie From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 07:19:03 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 07:19:03 -0000 Subject: The Trio and the nature of love In-Reply-To: <94tknn+p4s1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94tsp7+71mv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10925 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Jim Ferer" wrote: > We've been debating relationship preferences for a while and the > significance of events like The Kiss or Ron and Hermione's squabbles, > but we all ignore the fact the three love each other already. > > In our society we don't talk about love amongst friends, and we > certainly don't talk about males loving each other unless we're > writing slash fic, but it's real. the bond between Harry, Hermione, > and Ron is so strong that an outside mate might have trouble > understanding it. > Oh cap'n my cap'n, I salute you! I agree 100% with this - we can have great fun talking about love (eros) between characters, but the thing that makes the books so compelling and so special to me is the love (philia) that the trio share. That is what drives me back to the books again and again. Can you imagine what Harry would have become if he'd stayed with the Dursleys year after year until he hit legal adulthood and they kicked him out? It's the love (philia) of his friends and the love (caritas) of his teachers/mentors and the love (storge? - can't quite remember the word) of Sirius and of his 'adoptive' family - Molly and Arthur that have changed his life so thoroughly and hooked me completely. > This could be the ultimate no-shipper's argument. Anybody they might > meet might seem to pale compared to the friend they saved the universe > with. What happens when the intimate bond comes before the romantic > attraction? Hermione was preparing Harry to fight for his life before > she had a chance to see him as a potential mate. They've all been > through intense experiences together. I put words in Hermione's mouth > once: "we never had the time." Will this apply to Ron and Hermione? > Maybe not, but they grew up together too. That may be true - we may never get to see these characters enter into romantic relationships. But JKR has a gift - there are lots of books with great adventures, and there are lots of books with great romances, but there are not a lot of books that portray strong, flawed, loyal, insecure, REAL friendships and also take you on a great adventure. So if she manages to also wow me with romance, I'll be thrilled, and if she manages to allow happy-ever-after scenarios in the end, I'll be extatic, but honestly, at this point, if she did neither of the above, I'd still be satisfied, simply with the great characters she's created and the wonderful interactions she's given them. > > The shipper debates will never end. Hopefully they'll stay in the > lighthearted vein they are now. JKR's got a lot more to say about > friendship; let's not forget it either. Thanks for reminding me. I think I really like my new home! peace, kimberly From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 08:10:59 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:10:59 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94tvqj+9e6p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10926 *Panting* Thanks! I usually don't have a problem hanging on but eat enough of those Bott's beans and it can weigh you down! Aloha all! I join you from the island of Oahu. I can be your graveyard shift in the crow's nest if you have none. *Salute* Reporting for duty and awaiting orders! Christy =============== "Well, if you don't like it, you know what the solution is, don't you?" yelled Hermione;.... "Oh yeah?" Ron yelled back. "What's that?" "Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!" GoF p.432 Yup sounds like love to me!!! ====================================== --- In HPforGrownups at y..., morine10 at a... wrote: > In a message dated 1/26/01 3:00:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, > tigeriz969 at y... writes: > > << *splash* *splash* *splash* > Ahoy there! *arm waving in the water* Captain Kathy! Down here! > Permission to climb aboard! > > Permission granted! (First mate Mo here, throwing you a lifering) > > > Is there room for one more ferverent RH shipster? > > There's always room for jello and one more R/H-er. :) > > I agree with Ginny getting Harry. After all, the underdog girl should be > able to get her crush once in awhile! > > I have to agree. Besides, we haven't seen all of Ginny. JKR has promised us > more of the youngest Weasley and I believe that she just might blow us away! > > -Mo > First Mate > R/H-shipper First Class From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 08:51:09 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:51:09 -0000 Subject: Merchendise In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94u25v+gh4d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10927 Aloha Steph! You know, I didn't know I had done that! I don't know what possessed me to write it like that. Usually, I am more in tune with what and how I write. I must have been sugar-wired from all those Bott's beans! Actually, I think it may have been because there was this woman who worked for our company with the last name 'Knoble' and I had to be in contact with her alot. I saw those bookends but now I can't remember if I saw them at the Warner Bros or at the B&N store. Was the other journal the one with the image of Hedgewig or Hogwart's Express on it? I really like the Hedgewig journal. I may get that one! :) Or I might just save my money for that beautiful blue plush bathrobe for $47... Or even the Hedgewig doll. ARGH! Ssooooo many things! I finally found the TRUE Bott's beans at the Sweet Factory...the one with the black pepper and booger beans. I haven't gotten the nerve to try those yet! And if I did try it, how will I know if the 'booger' bean is correct?? I'M not going to experiment! ;). Christy ======================== --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Steph Widger" wrote: > Christy wrote: > < many things...I think that Warner Bros. has the best stuff, tho...I > go there for all my Scooby needs, too.>> > > I have only seen one set of bookends that I really like, and it was in a > harry potter collectables book that my mother got me. It was of Harry going > into the fat lady on one side, and ron sitting in the common room on the > other. I find that ron seems to be ignored a lot and i hate that and these > look really cool...I also already have two journals I got for x- mas, my > prefered being the one from my friend Jim with the hogwarts crest, he penned > me a poem on the inside. :) > > But I was writing because I enjoyed your spelling of 'Barnes and Knoble' and > wondered why you wrote it like that...The only reason I would know is > because of Knobles...but no one knows what that is. ;) > @~~~ > Steph > > "It's really name is Pigwidgeon." -Ginny (I enjoy that cuz part of my last > name is in Pig's name-Widge[r]) > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From john at walton.to Sat Jan 27 09:09:28 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:09:28 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: Updated Welcome Message - ALL READ Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10928 Hello and welcome to the Harry Potter for Grownups discussion group! We're dedicated to in-depth, thought-provoking and fun discussions of the Harry Potter books, as well as the movies, merchandising and other aspects of the phenomenon we've come to know and love. While there is no age requirement to join the group, you should note that most of our members are over 18. Mature teenagers may enjoy the group, but may find themselves more at home in a group of their peers. In any case, we strongly encourage use of proper spelling, punctuation and grammar in posts, and expect all our members to observe common sense, courtesy and netiquette at all times. You can find out more about the netiquette of this club in the Files section of the YahooGroups site. We moved here from Yahoo! Clubs, and have archived the messages from that service (about 8,000 of them!) at a separate YahooGroup with a search feature. You can access them by joining the HPforGrownups-Archives YahooGroup -- either send a blank email to HPforGrownups-Archives-subscribe at yahoogroups.com or visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups-Archives eGroups has recently turned into YahooGroups, and this has been causing some problems. Please read our helpful tips and tricks file at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt or contact the Moderator Team. We're currently going through "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" on a chapter-by-chapter basis and holding detailed character discussions on a weekly basis. For a list of the contributors, see the files section. For details of past discussions, you can use YahooGroups' nifty search function. To help new members get into the swing of things, a team of members is in the process of compiling an extensive set of substantive FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) in essay format, gleaned from past list postings and covering subjects such as Mysteries and Inconsistencies, Wands, Wizarding World Governments and major character sketches. We'll post them as they are completed and notify the group. REALLY frequently asked questions, such as the order Harry's parents come out of his wand, the gleam in Dumbledore's eye can be found in the RFAQ, which is still under construction. When writing your inevitable "first questions" post, where you ask all those burning questions from the books, please make sure you put proper subject headings on them: in other words, not "Hi, I'm new", but "Hi, I'm new/Wand Order/Gleam in Dumbledore's Eye/Wizarding Education". For detailed information on every aspect of the HP books, we highly recommend the Harry Potter Lexicon, maintained by Steve Vander Ark, one of our members. It can be found at http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon We're also investigating the possibility of a UK Tour, taking in sights relevant to HP such as King's Cross, Edinburgh, the Scottish Highlands and more. Planning has moved to the HPTour eGroup -- to subscribe, send a blank email to HPTour-subscribe at yahoogroups.com or visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPTour General questions can be directed to the Moderator Team at hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com Legal stuff: In posting to this group, you grant the Moderators the right and license to use the content of your messages in other contexts. At this time, the Moderators intend to use this permission only for purposes of archiving and creating topical FAQs for the group, but reserve the right to use them for other purposes. If you have any concerns about infringement of your copyright, you are advised to contact the Moderators. Should you have any further questions, feel free to contact the Moderators. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From john at walton.to Sat Jan 27 08:54:01 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:54:01 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] YahooGroups changeover (response to Pam H.) In-Reply-To: <3A723A4B.9E5D08AF@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10929 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > As for the changeover, will our emails to the group start showing our Yahoo > names as the sender? In other words, will you start seeing stuff from > "mandolabar" rather than "Amanda Lewanski"? > > --Amanda ::shrug:: Who knows? I've asked that question to the World Class Yahoo Service Desk ("buttock-clenchingly poor" is a class, right?), but they haven't got back to me yet. We'll keep you posted :) --John, Moderator With Rock #47 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From mousecarcass at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 09:48:57 2001 From: mousecarcass at hotmail.com (mousecarcass at hotmail.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 09:48:57 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <94r8d5+om7n@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94u5i9+1vr3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10930 I'd be the ghost in the crow's nest of the HMS H/H. I'll set off the fireworks if we're having a party. The view's so lovely up here. :) shorah, MC/Pandora --- Ebony wrote: > H/H shippers, make yourself known. From nykteris at polbox.com Sat Jan 27 09:59:19 2001 From: nykteris at polbox.com (nykteris) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:59:19 +0100 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books References: <3A70ED76.B9ADEE65@texas.net> <00d001c08769$d2ba1460$82604cd5@default> <3A71D6CE.B03C6E5F@texas.net> Message-ID: <000701c08848$08a185c0$39624cd5@default> No: HPFGUIDX 10931 Hi, Amanda, well, there's no English ordering, I think, but don't give up. I can try and translate you some useful expressions. Just follow that step by step: 1. www.empik.com that's the main page. You'll find there SZUKAJ W. Type HARRY POTTER and clik OK. 2. Then you'll have everything about HP. You can choose ZESTAW PROMOCYJNY - 3 HP-books in Polish !cheaper!: 63,20 zl (about 16 $; yeah, now zloty's really better). Click OPIS. You'll see: Ten zestaw promocyjny sklada sie z trzech ksiazek: "Harry Potter i kamien filozoficzny" "Harry Potter i komnata tajemnic" "Harry Potter i wiezien Azkabanu". It means: this special set comprises 3 books: HP S/S HP C/S HP PoA Click KUPUJE 3. You'll see TWOJ KOSZYK. Click ZLOZ ZAMOWIENIE (it's under PRZELICZ). 4. Some information about safe shpooing should appear. Click OK. 5. Then you have an ordering application. Fill it in: imie - name nazwisko - surname adres - address miejscowosc - town kod - post code kraj - country e-mail Or, in case of any problems, you can e-mail them, I'm sure, they'll understand: pomoc at empik.com Good luck! (it's a bit complicated - like the 4th HP's task :))) Katarzyna -------------------- [POLBOX - REKLAMA] ---------------------- http://www.mBank.com.pl/20/ bank przez Internet, telefon, WAP. rewolucyjne oprocentowanie, bezplatne prowadzenie rachunkw! -------------------------------------------------------------- From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sat Jan 27 11:20:02 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (David William Evans) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:20:02 -0000 Subject: Anyone??? In-Reply-To: <00a801c087ea$f885f700$e704bacc@allyson> Message-ID: <94uat2+d0qo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10932 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Allyson" wrote: > Does anyone know when PoA will be out in paperback??!! Well, I've got a paperback copy. Although living in the UK probably helps with that. You could try www.amazon.co.uk if you don't want to wait for the american release. The added advantage with the UK version is that you get 100% original Rowling, no editing for american understanding (not that I'm having a go at americans, I just think that Rowling's original text is worth experiencing). Dai From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Jan 27 11:03:29 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:03:29 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? References: <94sn82+miou@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <024201c08854$9a6dee60$8c2a07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10933 > > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > Penny > > Carole > > Lori > > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > > Scott > > Heather > > Heidi > > I do believe there's more of you out there. > I'm here! I want a spot on the ship too! > Sarah I'm here, too. And ready to party . (But not ready to fight - if they have lover's quarrel - who gets the girl and so on - they can do that themselves, no need for us to do it for them) ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sat Jan 27 11:43:41 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:43:41 -0000 Subject: Anyone??? In-Reply-To: <94uat2+d0qo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94uc9d+qvrs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10934 Sorry for this random extra message, but I have to make sure that the change I just made to my public profile worked. I really can't handle the list flagging me as David William Evans Dai From michelleapostolides at lineone.net Sat Jan 27 11:45:04 2001 From: michelleapostolides at lineone.net (Michelle Apostolides) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:45:04 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Anyone??? References: <94uc9d+qvrs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000b01c08856$988fcda0$5267063e@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 10935 > Sorry for this random extra message, but I have to make sure that the > change I just made to my public profile worked. I really can't handle > the list flagging me as David William Evans > Yes. I thought "you" were a lurker or a newbie !! ;-)) Michelle From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Sat Jan 27 11:50:17 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:50:17 -0000 Subject: Tomorrows chat Message-ID: <94uclp+4qno@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10936 Where's tomorrows chat going to be held? Here or at the club? Dai From prisoner06 at earthlink.net Sat Jan 27 13:02:49 2001 From: prisoner06 at earthlink.net (Doug Dorman) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 07:02:49 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: One Big, Happy Weasley Family References: <94ta64+updd@eGroups.com> <033f01c0880d$43958a40$7a4ad63f@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <001301c08861$743af500$ce69bfa8@dorman> No: HPFGUIDX 10937 I still have a nagging feeling that Harry Will either Die or go through some drastic changes during the final book. He could end up saving the day but at the same time be exiled from the wizarding world much the way Sirrus is. The ultimate martyr so to speak. So happy ending for the world but not Harry. ----------------------------------------- Natsugusa ya Summer grass: tsuwamonodomono Warriors dreams, yume no ato the aftermath. --Basho ----------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Carole Estes To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Re: One Big, Happy Weasley Family But just because its not One big happy weasely family does not mean its not a happy ending for Harry! It just might happen that Harry meets a wonderful exchange student in the end and lives happily ever after....the OBHWF is not the only happy ending possible. Dare I say Harry might fall in love with Hermione and still have a happy ending? > Kimberly, > who doesn't mind cliches if they allow her heros to be happy But why can't the hero be happy in a story that wasn't cliched...then the readers would be happier. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 27 13:58:10 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 27 Jan 2001 05:58:10 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Diagon Alley Message-ID: <20010127135810.6878.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10938 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 27 14:19:10 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 27 Jan 2001 06:19:10 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] YahooGroups changeover -admin. Message-ID: <20010127141910.18581.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10939 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 27 14:46:59 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:46:59 -0600 Subject: Happy Family and the G/H References: <200101270620.f0R6KGC21948@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A72DF62.4A40C9B8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10940 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > I never said that R/H would not change the dynamic of the Trio, what I meant was > that I don't see it being a *problem*. I don't get the impression that Harry's > bothered at all by the idea of Ron and Hermione having a separate relationship, > as long as the 3 of them are still friends. (Actually I got the impression that > he would find it a huge relief if they would just admit their feelings to one > another and get it over with!) Well, that again can be subject to more than one interpretation. Surprise -- Penny coming up with an alternate interpretation! What if Harry would be "relieved" if Ron & Hermione got together because he senses that Hermione likes him, and he either (a) can't imagine what that would do to his friendship with Ron (so he hopes she'll just hook up with Ron and the whole problem will "go away"), or (b) likes her back but is resistant for other reasons (such as putting Hermione in greater danger -- Harry Potter's girlfriend and a mudblood to boot -- she'd be a prime target, wouldn't she?). As Catlady has pointed out, Harry really doesn't do much more than think that Cho is pretty. He doesn't fantasize about even kissing her yet. He's still at a very awkward stage of adolescence, and he may not get much chance to develop normally because of the cataclysmic circumstances that are about to erupt all over his later adolescence (the "War"). So, I think Harry's pretty much still stuck in the "wish it would just go away" phase that lots of young boys that age experience. In any case, no H/H'er can make any sort of solid argument that Harry has interest in Hermione as yet. But, he also doesn't have interest in Ginny. And, in fact, Ginny may always be that "tag-along little sister of Ron's who had that horrible crush on him for so many years." She has a hard row to hoe really. Much more so than Hermione. > But I digress (often and at length!)...what I wanted to say was that wanting H/G > to develop a relationship isn't necessarily a corallary of R/H. And I don't > think that those who propose it are doing it as a solution to any sort of "Harry > problem" either. But, are there any H/G shippers who are *not* also R/H shippers? Are there specifically any H/G shippers who are fervently H/G and fervently anti-R/H? Also -- I left the subject heading alone. Take a look at it. I laughed out loud. G/H! Says alot doesn't it? :--) > Gosh, thanks. You're welcome to visit anytime...as long as you're nice to > Ron. Denigration of Weasleys of any kind will not be tolerated on the Good > Ship R/H. Violators of this rule shall be forced to walk the plank. > Oh well. I guess I won't be allowed a friendly visit even since I don't believe Ron (or any Weasley) is perfect and therefore immune from criticism (any more than Harry or Hermione is). The H/H Ship: The Ship of Realism, not Fantasy. Maybe that could be *our* new slogan. :--) > I've been thinking that part of the reason H/Hers perceive R/Hers as being > so defensive is that we tend to leave the burden of proof up to them. > (Because, as we know R/H just makes more sense!) > Well .... "burden of proof" is a legal term. Ahem. You all still haven't met your "burden of proof" to show that Hermione likes Ron back. When you can show me evidence of this that I can't refute with a "straight-face" argument, then we'll see about shifting the BOP. > You know, I think things like this are what bother me most about the H/H > position. I know that H/Hers admit that Harry hasn't shown any interest in > Hermione yet, and supposedly would in the future, but it seems to me that > not only has he not shown any interest, he has been quite the opposite of > interested in pretty much anything Hermione talks about or does. At least > Ron argues with her, so he's showing some interest. And *Ron* was the one who > noticed Hermione's weird schedule and the time turner slipups in PoA. It > was always Ron pointing them out or noticing Hermione's feelings (example: I > was just listening to the Hermione-walking-out-of-Divination scene today, and > after she leaves it's *Ron* who says "Some day Hermione's having" while > Harry's being distracted. Granted, Harry has reason to be distracted, but > *still*.) I just don't see the evidence for a future H/H relationship. > Oh really?! Well .... I'll just have to create a little document to add to our Files section that shows the interactions Hermione has with each of the two boys. I hardly think it will show a one-sided column of only Ron being perceptive & attune to her as a person. One glaring example that leaps to mind is that it was *Harry* and not stubborn Ron who wanted to make up with Hermione in PoA. He was perceptive enough to notice how unhappy she was and how tired she looked, knew she'd acted out of caring concern & approached her in the common room on his own. He no doubt appreciates the fact that it has been Hermione who was more steadfastly loyal to him than Ron. And, he most definitely appreciates the help she gives him with summoning charms & the curses/spells for the 3rd Task. If you can make the above argument that Ron is the only one who interacts with and notices/appreciates Hermione, then we really aren't reading the same books! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 27 14:50:36 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:50:36 -0600 Subject: Getting Shippy With It References: <94tkq6+34s9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A72E03C.E935D66A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10941 Hi - lj2d30 at gateway.net wrote: > Andrea wrote: > As early as CoS, it's Ron who has to be held back when Hermione is picked > on, even before he really notices she's a girl. And all their bickering > seems an adolescent way of covering up what is going on below the surface. > > Yes!!! I thought of this last night as I was getting ready for bed. It > was *Ron* leapt to Hermione's defence when Malfoy called her a Mudblood > and wound up belching slugs all day. Granted, Harry was unaware of how > truly nasty it was, but it was the Weasley boys who > tried to take action. (A quick glance at CoS, showed me that Gred and > Forge also tried to jump Malfoy just before Ron whipped out his wand) > Again .... this is merely more evidence that Ron has romantic feelings for Hermione. It still adds nothing whatsoever to the argument that Hermione would or does return Ron's feelings. If all you have is evidence that Ron likes Hermione, you don't have evidence of a mutual relationship. :--) Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 27 14:54:27 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:54:27 -0600 Subject: Harry's Height References: <3A72262E.C4E869D0@wicca.net> Message-ID: <3A72E123.B47E6FB@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10942 Hi -- Catlady wrote: > Pam Hugonnet wrote: Harry does resemble James, but they are different in > one fundamental way: James was tall (it's one of his more referred to > characteristics, right along with the untidy hair) and Harry is very > short. > > I expect that, with Harry's resemblance to James, that James was short at > Harry's age and Harry will have a growth spurt and become tall at the same > age James did. I also wonder whether Harry had already started growing > tall by the end of PoA, when he could mistake himself for James. I don't think so since Ron kids Harry in Divination in GoF about something meaning that a "midget" in glasses is being born. He also feels very short in comparison to the other Triwizard Champions. I think he's still short. I personally think he's going to remain short ... but I'm told growth spurts can go on much longer for boys than girls, so we'll see. Penny From betty_belladonna at freenet.de Sat Jan 27 15:02:42 2001 From: betty_belladonna at freenet.de (Dinah) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:02:42 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harry's Height References: <3A72262E.C4E869D0@wicca.net> <3A72E123.B47E6FB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <001d01c08872$340891c0$cf2b07d5@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 10943 > I don't think so since Ron kids Harry in Divination in GoF about something > meaning that a "midget" in glasses is being born. He also feels very short > in comparison to the other Triwizard Champions. I think he's still short. > I personally think he's going to remain short ... but I'm told growth spurts > can go on much longer for boys than girls, so we'll see. > Penny When I imagine adult-Harry I always imagine him to be quite tall. Harry's always described as "small and skinny", but who wouldn't be in his position? Before he came to Hogwarts he had never gotten a decent meal in his whole life and the malnutrition pobably kept him rather small. I think that in a year or so Harry will start to catch up with the other boys of his age and grow quite a lot - especially if he can finally live with Sirius and doesn't have to return to the Dursley's. ~ Dinah ~ ICQ: 10 44 52 471 YM: bludger_witch The wages of sin is death, but so is the salary of virtue, and at least the evil get to go home early on Fridays. -- (Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad) From pbnesbit at msn.com Sat Jan 27 15:06:54 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:06:54 -0000 Subject: Harry's Height In-Reply-To: <3A72E123.B47E6FB@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94uo6e+biku@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10944 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Catlady wrote: > > > Pam Hugonnet wrote: Harry does resemble James, but they are different in > > one fundamental way: James was tall (it's one of his more referred to > > characteristics, right along with the untidy hair) and Harry is very > > short. > > > > I expect that, with Harry's resemblance to James, that James was short at > > Harry's age and Harry will have a growth spurt and become tall at the same > > age James did. I also wonder whether Harry had already started growing > > tall by the end of PoA, when he could mistake himself for James. > > I don't think so since Ron kids Harry in Divination in GoF about something > meaning that a "midget" in glasses is being born. He also feels very short > in comparison to the other Triwizard Champions. I think he's still short. > I personally think he's going to remain short ... but I'm told growth spurts > can go on much longer for boys than girls, so we'll see. > > Penny Oh, yeah. My younger stepson, whose parents are (& were) 5-2 (dad) & 5-4 (mum) suddenly had a growth spurt at about 15 or 16. He's now 6- 2 & still growing at 18. (heaven help us all!) I remember too, when I was in high school, somewhere between sophomore & junior year, all the boys seemed to have grown. Very tall. So, I think there's hope for Harry yet! Parker From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 27 15:14:31 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 27 Jan 2001 07:14:31 -0800 Subject: Merchandise (the extent of my obsession) Message-ID: <20010127151431.3852.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10945 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 27 15:29:46 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 27 Jan 2001 07:29:46 -0800 Subject: merch. Message-ID: <20010127152946.4187.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10946 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 27 15:36:26 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:36:26 -0000 Subject: Harry's Height In-Reply-To: <94uo6e+biku@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94uptq+gd0s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10947 One thing to remember about Harry's height is that he has more than his father's genes to go on. He did have a mother, after all, and she had a father. In my own case, my body type leans towards my maternal grandfather's (slightly below average height, stocky) rather than my father's (6 foot 2 inches, skinny as a rail). Marvin From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 27 15:44:11 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:44:11 -0000 Subject: Anyone??? In-Reply-To: <94uat2+d0qo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94uqcb+f17m@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10948 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "David William Evans" wrote: > You could try www.amazon.co.uk if you don't want to > wait for the american release. The added advantage with the UK > version is that you get 100% original Rowling, no editing for > american understanding (not that I'm having a go at americans, I > just think that Rowling's original text is worth experiencing). > Hear hear! And by all means have a go at us daft 'murricans. Translating JKR's English into murrican makes about as much sense as dubbing Monty Python or Chef. Jeesh. But hark! What books through yonder mailbox break! My copies of the HP series from Canada have arrived, and there's a surprise! Instead of sending me the Raincoast edition of GOF, they sent me the Bloomsbury edition; and it even says "First Edition" on the copyright page. Did somebody in the stockroom make a booboo? I ain't complainin'! Marvin Austin, TX From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 15:55:42 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:55:42 -0000 Subject: The Trio and the nature of love In-Reply-To: <94tsp7+71mv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94ur1u+okuj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10949 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., moongirlk at y... wrote: "...we can lhave great fun talking about love (eros) between characters, but the thing that makes the books so compelling and so special to me is the love (philia) that the trio share. That is what drives me back to the books again and again. Can you imagine what Harry would have become if he'd stayed with the Dursleys year after year until he hit legal adulthood and they kicked him out? It's the love (philia) of his friends and the love (caritas) of his teachers/mentors and the love (storge? - can't quite remember the word) of Sirius and of his 'adoptive' family - Molly and Arthur that have changed his life so thoroughly and hooked me completely." Thank you for finding the vocabulary I didn't have for this. I was looking for the terms for different kinds of love and couldn't find them. And you have brought in the love Harry has gotten from the Weasleys, which I would have longed to have. I think the bond of the Trio and the family is central to the story. I can't resist it, and my sappy detector doesn't go off. Kimberly:"..there are not a lot of books that portray strong, flawed, loyal, insecure, REAL friendships and also take you on a great adventure. So if she manages to also wow me with romance, I'll be thrilled, and if she manages to allow happy-ever-after scenarios in the end, I'll be extatic, but honestly, at this point, if she did neither of the above, I'd still be satisfied, simply with the great characters she's created and the wonderful interactions she's given them." In my heart of hearts I'd like to see Harry get everthing: love a mate, love of his friends, love of a family. But in my head of heads I doubt it. Harry will lose a lot; he will lose friends; he may lose too much to bond with a mate, at least in canon. Family of some kind will still be there. That makes me a no-shipper on that level. I have my doubts if he'll have PTSD in the clinical, diagnostic sense, but Harry's going to be beat up pretty bad and he is going to pay a heavy price. "The tree of liberty must be refreshed with the blood of patriots." From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 27 16:00:28 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:00:28 -0000 Subject: The Trio and the nature of love In-Reply-To: <94tknn+p4s1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94uras+48rm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10950 Awwoooga! Bravo, Jim, for a grand post. Reading it reminded me of the Lord of the Rings and the friendship that forms between the members of the Fellowship, especially Samwise and Frodo. By the end of the story they've gone through so much that their inhibitions sort of fall away, and their friendship and mutual encouragement is expressed in a language of love that's simultaneously homely and sublime; it's difficult not to cry when I read those passages. I'm also reminded of "love in the trenches," "brothers in arms," and so on. People who go to war together do develop intense emotional, sometimes even physical, bonds; and yet these bonds rarely transform after the war into domestic arrangements. They are made possible in part because while the war goes on everyone involved is denied the choice to live as they see fit, and so they make do as best they can. But once the war is over that choice returns; the characters of your fellows and yourself begin to expand and in freedom take on aspects that might not have been apparent in the foxhole or trench. The buddies will likely get together to reminisce as years go by, but they aren't likely to spend the rest of their lives seeking one another out. I think that once the "war" ends, if everybody survives, our trio will find themselves gradually turning into very different people, as we all do, becoming more unique and more ourselves. Unless JKR goes in for mawkish sentimentalism, our heros will have to face another great adventure, adulthood, each in their own way, and very likely without turning to one another for permanent companionship. Marvin Austin, TX ---------- Periscope down! Awooga! Dive, Uboat Noship, dive! From john at walton.to Sat Jan 27 14:09:17 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:09:17 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: Tomorrow's chat @ YahooGroups In-Reply-To: <94uclp+4qno@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10951 Dai Evans wrote: > Where's tomorrows chat going to be held? > Here or at the club? We've been talking about this on the moderator list and have all but decided to go for the new YahooGroups chat, which seems to allow Simon's CheetaChat save-o-matic program. Unless you hear otherwise, assume it will be at the YahooGroups chat, NOT the YahooClubs chat. I'm sure someone will be popping into the Clubs chat every so often to make sure nobody gets confused ;) --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From nykteris at polbox.com Sat Jan 27 10:27:26 2001 From: nykteris at polbox.com (nykteris) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:27:26 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Book prices References: <94t800+dord@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <001a01c0887c$316fb2e0$3d624cd5@default> No: HPFGUIDX 10952 In Poland it's much cheaper. 25 zloty per copy, so it makes about 5 dollars. The price is like that because it's a book for children. If it had cost more, many of them wouldn't have been able to buy it. Best wishes Katarzyna ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 2:24 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book prices What are nromal prices for the translated versions of the Harry Potter-books? The Norwegian edition of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" (GoF bot being translated to Norwegian yet) goes for USD30/GBP20 per copy - How does this compare to other countries? Greetings Christian Stub "We are the Yahoo! Your service's cultural and technical individualities will be assimilated to serve our needs. Resistance is futile." To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com -------------------- [POLBOX - REKLAMA] ---------------------- http://www.mBank.com.pl/20/ bank przez Internet, telefon, WAP. rewolucyjne oprocentowanie, bezplatne prowadzenie rachunkw! -------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- [POLBOX - REKLAMA] ---------------------- http://www.mBank.com.pl/20/ bank przez Internet, telefon, WAP. rewolucyjne oprocentowanie, bezplatne prowadzenie rachunksw! -------------------------------------------------------------- From nykteris at polbox.com Sat Jan 27 16:13:01 2001 From: nykteris at polbox.com (nykteris) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:13:01 +0100 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books References: <3A70ED76.B9ADEE65@texas.net> <00d001c08769$d2ba1460$82604cd5@default> <3A71D6CE.B03C6E5F@texas.net> Message-ID: <001b01c0887c$32391d60$3d624cd5@default> No: HPFGUIDX 10953 It's me again. I was thinking of you: ordering - when you do not understand the language and pay with your credit card!!! - may be not a good idea. So better mail the bookshop (pomoc at empik.com) or ask your friends - maybe somebody knows Polish enough to do that? Katarzyna -------------------- [POLBOX - REKLAMA] ---------------------- http://www.mBank.com.pl/20/ bank przez Internet, telefon, WAP. rewolucyjne oprocentowanie, bezplatne prowadzenie rachunksw! -------------------------------------------------------------- From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 16:22:08 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:22:08 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: <3A72E03C.E935D66A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94usjg+7blq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10954 Penny:"Again .... this is merely more evidence that Ron has romantic feelings for Hermione. It still adds nothing whatsoever to the argument that Hermione would or does return Ron's feelings. If all you have is evidence that Ron likes Hermione, you don't have evidence of a mutual relationship." I diagree. Although it has been discounted in the past by H/H shipdom, there is at least evidence that Hermione at the least has some proprietary feelings about Ron. To rehash: (HWGA) Ron and Harry were having identical problems getting up the gumption to ask dates for the Yule Ball. Hermione never said one word to Harry, but plenty to Ron ["Well spotted!"]. She's ticked off he hasn't noticed her. If she didn't care, she wouldn't be. Her assorted furious looks at Ron when he appears to be going gaga over Fleur. I concede she may not be giving Harry any of these looks because Harry seems to manage to keep his wits about him with Fleur. I insist the "blazing row" after the Yule ball is significant. "You know what to do about it, don't you? ...ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!!" Harry thinks she gets the point better than Ron does. If Hermione didn't want Ron to ask her or didn't care if he did, it never would have happened. And Harry sees what's going on. Hermione, like any young woman, wants to be noticed. She definitely wants *Ron* to notice. Is she head over heels for him? Doubt it. Madly in love? Hardly. But there's *something*. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. And Hermione is not indifferent. From ABoyko at starchoice.com Sat Jan 27 16:46:44 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (Angela B) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:46:44 -0000 Subject: Mad Eye Moody, a filk Message-ID: <94uu1k+ltl1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10955 Bowing to the master, Caius Marcus, I humbly present a filk song Mad Eye Moody (to the tune of "This Old Man") (Charlie Weasley) This old man, Mad Eye Moody He was an Auror, doing his duty He filled up Azkaban, with a a terrible lot His hatred of dark wizards isn't for naught (Amos Diggory) This old man, full of suspicion Jinxed all his dustbins in his grand tradition He thought that the cats were doing the Dark Arts He scared all the Muggles in surrounding parts (Albus Dumbledore) This old man, he's joined our staff He's going to make learning more than a laugh You'll learn how to defend yourself against the Death Eaters There's more to our Hogwarts than cheering on the Beaters (Ron Weasley) This old man, he was really cool! He transfigured Draco into a fool Gave him some whiskers, a furry snout and tail When Draco stopped bouncing he was pink, not pale (Neville Longbottom) This old man, he's really scary He did awful things to spiders that were hairy And then after that, he made me a cup of tea And lent me a book on aquatic botany (Hermione Granger) This old man, he gave Harry clues Helped him fight off those dragon fighting blues Harry discovered just what he had to do With a clever spell that Firebolt flew (Minerva McGonagall) This old man, he used me in a plot He helped Dobby help Harry out of a wet spot Without the Gillyweed poor Harry would have drowned Under the waves there'd have been a gurgling sound (Lord Voldemort) This old man, he "fixed" the maze Made Victor his puppet, in a cursed daze He changed the big trophy, into a portkey All to deliver Harry to me (Severus Snape) This old man, he did something strange He took wounded Harry out of viewing range I'm not that fond of Potter, but with Albus I will fight All the dark forces this terrible night (Harry Potter) This old man, he's not my friend He wanted me to die in a painful end That he was Mad Eye Moody, everyone did vouch But in the end, he was Junior Barty Crouch From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 27 16:59:19 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:59:19 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Tomorrow's chat @ YahooGroups In-Reply-To: Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10956 John (or maybe his rock) wrote: "We've been talking about this on the moderator list and have all but decided to go for the new YahooGroups chat, which seems to allow Simon's CheetaChat save-o-matic program. Unless you hear otherwise, assume it will be at the YahooGroups chat, NOT the YahooClubs chat. I'm sure someone will be popping into the Clubs chat every so often to make sure nobody gets confused ;)" If anyone needs any information about how to use CheetaChat to access the chat or any information about the chats in general then please fell free to e-mail me. The Chat kicks off at around 8 pm GMT (3 pm Eastern, noon Pacific). I take this opportunity to remind people that some of the transcripts from previous chats are available at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownupsChatScripts Also a list of some of the chat aliases used (including my newest dr_simon_branford) is available at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownupsChatScripts/files/+Chatter%27s+Li st I hope to see some of you there tomorrow. Simon (aka hert0661 and dr_simon_branford) One of the Chat Scripts Group Moderator Team. From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 17:00:07 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:00:07 -0000 Subject: Anyone??? In-Reply-To: <94uqcb+f17m@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94uuqn+eh42@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10957 The Canadian versions have both Raincoast and Bloomsbury written on the spine- we ARE a British colony, after all. Plus, there were so many first edition books printed there are still some first editions in the bookstores! --- In HPforGrownups at y..., msl at f... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "David William Evans" wrote: > > You could try www.amazon.co.uk if you don't want to > > wait for the american release. The added advantage with the UK > > version is that you get 100% original Rowling, no editing for > > american understanding (not that I'm having a go at americans, I > > just think that Rowling's original text is worth experiencing). > > > > Hear hear! And by all means have a go at us daft 'murricans. > Translating JKR's English into murrican makes about as much sense as > dubbing Monty Python or Chef. Jeesh. > > But hark! What books through yonder mailbox break! My copies of the > HP series from Canada have arrived, and there's a surprise! Instead > of sending me the Raincoast edition of GOF, they sent me the > Bloomsbury edition; and it even says "First Edition" on the copyright > page. Did somebody in the stockroom make a booboo? I ain't > complainin'! > > Marvin > Austin, TX From ebonyink at hotmail.com Fri Jan 26 00:50:48 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:50:48 Subject: Shipping and Other HP4GU Debates (long as usual) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10958 Hello, HP4GUers! M.C. Pandora wrote as an aside embedded in another post: "(Similar to some 'converted' to Ron/Hermione and away from Harry/Cho by GoF -- people do like to be right, and re-evaluate the past in light of the present/future.)" Exactly. The above inspired my own brief foray into R/H land... as skeptical as I was, I didn't want to debate with the Creator of the HP Universe. Can anyone else relate to M.C.'s quote? I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences are directly related to the way we read the books in general. Everyone on list knows that I'm loudly, obnoxiously, and unashamedly H/H. I think I basically agree with Penny on almost every issue in the fandom except that I think Lily and James married young, and I still think Harry's a nickname. :::grins at the listmom and H/H captain::: Here's my stance on those issues. What I'm wondering now is how other H/Hers view the positions below, as opposed to those of other ships and no-shippers. 1) I'm a SuperHarry advocate. The only reason I haven't jumped into the debate with canonical evidence is b/c I've been under the weather. I've been scouring the books in search of evidence of this theory (the crazy idea had to have come from *somewhere* in canon) and have unearthed a few nuggets. :-) I think I have enough on my hands with shipping, though. 2) Although I dislike the Slytherins in canon, I believe that both Draco and Snape are redeemable in both canon and fanon. Even after Cassie's DD/DS (which I love), I still distrusted Draco until I began writing TIP... during the construction of the backstory and the writing, his character shocked me. 3) I identify strongly with Percy. I doubt very seriously that he will become a Death Eater. 4) I think that there's more to Hermione than brains. We still don't *completely* know from canon why the Sorting Hat put her into Gryffindor. 5) Ron, at this point, *really* needs to be onstage for a significant portion of Book 5 so that his character can be developed more. In books 1-2 I grinned at him and said "typical boy"... in books 3 and especially 4 I really believed he needed to "get a grip". (No flames, please. The fact that he's 14 at this point doesn't mean much to me--for the millionth time, I spend two full hours a day with 13 and 14 year olds. Not all 14 year old boys are like him. Only some of them are.) 6) I'm a small Hogwarts/wizarding world advocate. Unlike shipping, I don't care to debate the issue that much. 7) I have always thought the Wand Order issue was much ado about nothing. Nice that it got our e-group the media recognition, though. 8) I love post-Hogwarts fanfics. I also like fanfics that attempt to explain the scientific and cultural features of the magical world. While shipping fluff and steamy romance fics are all well and good, my favorite fics also deal with explaining important existential questions that JKR has not dealt with thus far. Even my own soap opera has a lot of theory-type gobbledygook in the background and in the backstory/outline that has *nothing to do with shipping*. (That might explain Kathy's "UberFic" theory--the most famous H/H subplot fics really focus on something besides shipping entirely--H/H is not the cake itself in these fics, just the icing. ) Those are my positions. I've noticed that H/Hers seem to agree with many of the above. In contrast, a recent visit to a very nice R/H site run by grownups (hi, Zsenya!) revealed that most posters stood on the opposite side of most of the above. So there's a bit more to shipping than just drawing a queen and a king from a deck of cards. I'd say it reveals a lot about our personalities. Kimberly wrote: >I know as a newbie no-shipper I'm not the best person to respond to >this, but as I came from and still have a certain affinity for the >R/H ship's general philosophy, I thought I'd try. I've noticed that most of the no-shippers that participate in the shipping debate (oxymoron, anyone?) don't usually travel on the SS H/H. We still love 'em, though. A side note--I really don't believe that there is a such thing as a no-shipper. I have too much gobbledygook in my head about the foundations of Western cultural philosophy to subscribe to the existence of people floating on inner tubes for the next two years at least... and am having difficulty constructing a plausible scenario for land-lubbers. >There might be something to what you're saying. Kathy mentioned that >some R/Hers tell her they're uncomfortable posting here because the >atmosphere seems against it. I have heard the same. Maybe they >perceive that they have something to defend themselves against if >they post about it? The R/Hers now have a very nice site where they can express their opinions without much rebuttal... I love visiting but only posted an intro. The message boards are very active, but I've seen few counter-arguments over there. I've also seen (sorry to bring this up, but I have to say it) HP4GU shipping theories discussed over there and dissected. All in all, it's nice vacationing on foreign cruise ships. :-) In contrast, there is no grown-up equivalent H/H site that I know of. Here at HP4GU, the H/Hers get heat from R/Hers, other ships, and no-shippers. The PoU list is not for ship discussions per se... Lori graciously allows a couple of maritime posts there, but shipping back-and-forth in general (even H/H) is OT. So I'll echo Penny here... it's not that the R/Hers are less vocal. >Maybe it's just that, being a lawyer, you're better at it that makes >the R/Hers feel that way, or maybe it's the terminology that has been >tossed around (disorders, destroyers, etc.). I'm quite happy myself >that you've been steering away from them, because down here floating >without a ship in the waters of ambiguous anticipation it's kinda >scary to see two big ships face of in battle terms. A few quick points of clarification: --I started the "destroyer" talk. I'm the only one who used the term. Penny's earlier post checked me effectively. My apologies. Chalk it up to my man being in uniform... and my own weird and sometimes culturally-derived sense of humor. We'll be a cruise ship from now on. --I also started the "disorder" talk. Again, I apologize. My shipmates had nothing to do with it. R/Hers will be simply "misguided" in the future. --Penny's being a lawyer has little to do with her defense of the H/H ship. I'm not a lawyer, and everyone around these parts know that I'm "loquacious" (to quote my dear friend the R/H captain). There are other lawyers who do not ship at all or sail on other vessels. Let's be fair. --The shipping theory I'm responsible for is the Freud one, and you *know* that gave everyone a good laugh last month... I've seen it mentioned here or elsewhere, but no one ever mentions that most H/Hers laughed along with the rest of the list at me. I've also done field research into FITD, along with Cassie and Heather. All right. I think that's it. Bear in mind that while the H/H Captain Penny is our listmom, there are 4-5 other moderators who are confirmed no-shippers and check the vocal H/H element effectively (and with good humor!) with posts like Neil's recent Titanic post. That let me know in a subtle way that "destroyer" was not a good term to use... and not to impress no-shippers into service a la the British navy of 200 years ago. LOL! >I hope I'm not stepping on any toes - I don't mean to speak for one >side or offend the other side. Not at all, Kimberly--one of my favorite people on list is the R/H captain... she and I both work with kids and are addicted to fanfiction. So much for the notion of a real war, when we're both "fraternizing with the enemy" (Ron quote! LOL!) Again, R/Her Rina has the right idea. Let's keep the tone light... I'll do my best to comply with that. Best, Ebony AKA AngieJ <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 17:21:02 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:21:02 -0000 Subject: The Trio and the nature of love In-Reply-To: <94uras+48rm@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94v01u+85ab@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10959 Marvin:"Reading [the original post] reminded me of the Lord of the Rings and the friendship that forms between the members of the Fellowship, especially Samwise and Frodo. By the end of the story they've gone through so much that their inhibitions sort of fall away, and their friendship and mutual encouragement is expressed in a language of love that's simultaneously homely and sublime; it's difficult not to cry when I read those passages." Exactly, and thank you. Me too. Marvin:"People who go to war together do develop intense emotional, sometimes even physical, bonds; and yet these bonds rarely transform after the war into domestic arrangements." Well, yes, but that's often because these companions are the same gender. There's been plenty enough war marriages when the biology was right. Marvin:"They are made possible in part because while the war goes on everyone involved is denied the choice to live as they see fit, and so they make do as best they can." I agree, but the Trio's relationship began before the Second Voldemort War, which has only just begun, and so has roots beyond the conflict. Marvin:"The buddies will likely get together to reminisce as years go by, but they aren't likely to spend the rest of their lives seeking one another out. I think that once the "war" ends, if everybody survives, our trio will find themselves gradually turning into very different people, as we all do, becoming more unique and more ourselves. " That could happen. Again, though, they have a history before the War, and a bond deeper than the war; but will the war experience blot that out? "Periscope down! Awooga! Dive, Uboat Noship, dive!" The lonely noshippers grab stanchions and pipes as the vessel shakes like a dog's toy under a merciless barrage of the dreaded H/H depth charges.."Vill der H/H destroyers nefer be zatisfied?" cries a frightened young sailor. "How can ve expect mercy from zem?" his companion replied. "Zay sent dat poor innocent Chinny to zat SS unterfuehrer Draco. Zay vill stop at nuzink, I tell you, nuzink!!" From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 27 17:21:31 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:21:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Getting Shippy With It References: <94usjg+7blq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A73039B.29068A7A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10960 Hi -- Jim Ferer wrote: > Penny:"Again .... this is merely more evidence that Ron has romantic > feelings for Hermione. It still adds nothing whatsoever to the > argument that Hermione would or does return Ron's feelings. If all > you have is evidence that Ron likes Hermione, you don't have evidence > of a mutual relationship." > > I diagree. Although it has been discounted in the past by H/H shipdom, there is at least evidence that Hermione at the least has some proprietary feelings about Ron. To rehash: > (HWGA) Well, the Captains of the respective Ships have reached a truce on this issue: it's not crystal clear whether Hermione has feelings for either of them, and if so, which one. There are equal arguments either direction. What I objected to in Trina's message was again relying strictly on evidence that suggests that Ron likes Hermione & just transferring reciprocal feelings to Hermione without really analyzing whether that's well-placed or not. If someone throws out a bit of evidence that Ron likes Hermione & then concludes, "That's it! That makes R/H make sense to me," I feel obliged to counter that Hermione is a person with feelings & she should not be discounted. She might not like either one of them after all! > Ron and Harry were having identical problems getting up the gumption to ask dates for the Yule Ball. Hermione never said one word to Harry, but plenty to Ron ["Well spotted!"]. > She's ticked off he hasn't noticed her. If she didn't care, she wouldn't be. I put a different spin on this (surprise!). A few pages earlier Ron told Harry that they'd better get a move on or they'd be stuck with a "pair of trolls." Hermione was naturally indignant about this churlish remark and leaves the room in a huff. So, when later it's apparent that Ron has been rebuffed by Fleur and looking desperate, I think Hermione takes some self-satisfied glee at his predicament. She throws a little sarcasm his way -- but I don't interpret it that she's necessarily personally ticked off that he hadn't noticed her. She's deriving enjoyment from the fact that Ron's churlish attitude got him nowhere, all the while knowing that *she* has a date already. > I insist the "blazing row" after the Yule ball is significant. "You know what to do about it, don't you? ...ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!!" Harry > thinks she gets the point better than Ron does. If Hermione didn't want Ron to ask her or didn't care if he did, it never would have happened. And Harry sees what's going on. And, I insist we don't know the full story. Harry just knows that Ron doesn't realize he has feelings for Hermione. There's nothing whatever said about her feelings for him. I can also think of least one scenario where the argument would have happened even if she had zero personal interest in his date. > Hermione, like any young woman, wants to be noticed. She definitely wants *Ron* to notice. Aahhh .... I don't know about that. The H/H'ers have just as many arguments that she has feelings for Harry as the R/H crowd has for their position. Penny From john at walton.to Sat Jan 27 17:29:06 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:29:06 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] YahooGroups changeover - Y! ID vs Email Name In-Reply-To: <20010127141910.18581.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10961 Jeralyn wrote: > On Sat, 27 January 2001, John Walton wrote: > >> Amanda Lewanski wrote: >> >>> As for the changeover, will our emails to the group start showing our Yahoo >>> names as the sender? In other words, will you start seeing stuff from >>> "mandolabar" rather than "Amanda Lewanski"? >>> >>> --Amanda >> >> ::shrug:: Who knows? I've asked that question to the World Class Yahoo >> Service Desk ("buttock-clenchingly poor" is a class, right?), but they >> haven't got back to me yet. We'll keep you posted :) > > Hi all - > > I've done a test and noticed that my yahoo ID only shows up on my home page. > Whenver I send messages, whether from my email addres or the website, you'll > see the same old email address that you've come to know and love. (Well, > *some* of you love me...) On reflection, my guess is that, for reasons of server resources, we will continue to see the self-designated names (John Walton rather than johnwalton_crazyivan). It would be quite a server-consuming task for Yahoo to go through every email address (bearing in mind that you can have five separate alternative email addresses for one account) and replace it with the Yahoo ID. This is, however, just a guess. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 17:00:33 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:00:33 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Tomorrow's chat @ YahooGroups (more advice & instructions) References: Message-ID: <006601c08882$a9eecf20$033670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10962 John said: > We've been talking about this on the moderator list and have all but decided > to go for the new YahooGroups chat, which seems to allow Simon's CheetaChat > save-o-matic program. Unless you hear otherwise, assume it will be at the > YahooGroups chat, NOT the YahooClubs chat. I'm sure someone will be popping > into the Clubs chat every so often to make sure nobody gets confused ;) As John says, we have all but decided to jump ship [okay shippers, steady now] at our old Yahoo club. The chatroom there was the last remaining useful feature and now we don't need it. HURRAY! I see Dr Simon has just posted a note on tomorrow's chat, but here are a few more details if you fancy sizing up the joint ahead of time:- **Assuming we go ahead with the plan to use Yahoo Groups, those of you who have signed up (or were signed up) with Yahoo and transferred to Yahoo Groups will be able to use the chat facility in the new Yahoo Groups club area by just clicking on Chat: (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/chat) **You will appear under the default name you used to sign up to Yahoo, but remember that Yahoo gives you the option of creating an alternative profile (ID) and using that in the chatroom, if you'd rather pretend to be i_love_lupin than jbloggs999, for example. **For those of you who used to use the old Yahoo club for the Sunday chat sessions, the interface appears to be the same as the Yahoo chat one, but Yahoo Groups is promising greater stability for Internet Explorer users (who had experienced problems with Yahoo chat). You could just click on 'Chat' and be done with it, but there is an alternative chat facility that taps directly into the Yahoo Groups chat, provided by Cheetachat (http://www.cheetachat.com). If you sign up for Cheetachat you'll get lots of groovy additional features and the option of having an Avatar [little picture] attached to your name. **If you register with Cheetachat, you can save the HPforGrownUps chatroom as one of your favourites by selecting Rooms from the top menu bar, then Favorite Rooms, then Manage Favorite Rooms. Then, if you then click 'ADD', and enter the following handy code - *g2176166:1 - the HPfor GrownUps chatroom will become one of your favourites. Could it be any other way? **All the Sunday chats are recorded and stored in a sister club, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownupsChatScripts/ run by Dee, Simon and Catlady, so be aware that your words won't just vanish into the cyberether. The Chatscripts club will give you all the information on the chats, if you ever need another reminder. **For new members, the Sunday chats run from around 8pm GMT onwards. To check the times for your zone, go to the club calendar (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/calendar ) and make sure the time zone on the right read correctly for your area. This should adjust all event times to your local time. **We'll make an announcement and repeat these hints when we've decided for sure whether to go with Yahoo Groups for tomorrow's session. Neil Moderator Team Mods reachable at: hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com From morine10 at aol.com Sat Jan 27 17:40:29 2001 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 12:40:29 EST Subject: OBHWF, R/H vs. H/H, BOP Message-ID: <55.1064d7a2.27a4620d@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10963 kimberly wrote: > I think he and Hermione are ill-suited (and as an aside, that Hermione and > Ron would, as they mature, bring out the best in each other [see the > Buckbeak incident that ended the Scabbers/Crookshanks argument]). Exactly. She challenges his lazy butt and just keeps him from slacking off too much. Without Ron Hermione would be all work and no play. He also is able to get her to admit when she is wrong. Hermione is bossy and even though she has lightened up considerably and will IMO continue to do so, she will always be bossy. She will never be an ideal match for Harry - he's had enough bossing in his life. kimberly on OBHWF: > it doesn't stop me from liking the idea, and it wouldn't stop me from being > thrilled if she did it, nor do I think it would cheapen the story, as so > I agree and I don't understand why some would think it is such an easy way out. JKR has said that the stories will become considerably darker. But you cannot have dark without light. I cannot see her showing at least some hints of future happiness and peace for the characters no matter what that may be. Tangent--Harry is building a family as he goes consisting of not only the Weasleys but also Hagrid, Sirius, Lupin, Dumbledore and surely others we have yet to meet. He never had such a network of love and support before. Until Hogwarts he was alone. It was Harry vs. the Dursleys. I believe that JKR is emphasising this to show that Harry will never have to be alone again. Captain Kathy stated: > I never said that R/H would not change the dynamic of the Trio, what I meant > was that I don't see it being a *problem*. I don't get the impression that > Harry's bothered at all by the idea of Ron and Hermione having a separate > relationship, as long as the 3 of them are still friends. (Actually I got > the > impression that he would find it a huge relief if they would just admit > their > and Penny countered: > I hardly think it will show a one-sided column of only Ron being perceptive & > attune to her as a person. One glaring example that leaps to mind is that > it was > *Harry* and not stubborn Ron who wanted to make up with Hermione in PoA. > He was perceptive enough to notice how unhappy she was and how tired she > looked, knew she'd acted out of caring concern & approached her in the > common room on his own. He no doubt appreciates the fact that it has been > Hermione who was more steadfastly loyal to him than Ron. And, he most > definitely appreciates the help she gives him with summoning charms & the > curses/spells for the 3rd Task. If you can make the above argument that > Ron is the only one who interacts with and notices/appreciates Hermione, > then we really aren't reading the same books! The more I read the more I know we aren't reading the same books! I of course side with Kathy. I think Harry just wants them to get it over with.....After the Yule Ball during the infamous argument..."Harry didn't say anything. he liked being back on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind right now--but he somehow thought that Hermione had gotten the point much better than Ron had." I know this is a point of differing opinion between R/H-ers and H/H-ers. But to me it speaks volumes - Harry knows :) As for whether or not Harry or Ron notices more about Hermione...Harry is concerned with the overall friendship of the trio and keeping it intact. (This is not to say that Hermione and Ron aren't, mind). They are his family. The last thing he wants is for his family to be broken up (again). And yes he does appreciate her help and loyalty. But he says so himself - she isn't as fun as Ron. Both of them need that patented Ron Weasley Fun. Together Hermione and Harry are as dull as one of Professor Binn's goblin lectures. Now as for Ron - he notices the specifics. Her scheduling conflicts in PoA. Her interactions with Krum. He's the one that first notices her new teeth. He might not get the big picture yet, but he's certainly collecting the pieces. I also have to mention the PoA Crookshanks/Scabbers arguments between Ron and Hermione. The fight started between the three over the Firebolt but continued between R and H over their pets. For the record, I feel that Hermione was totally out of line. Crookshanks was trying to kill Scabbers and she absolutely should have been more sensitive to Ron's feelings. I know she came around in the end, but when her cat was pouncing on the rat and she just passed it off as what cats and rats do, it really irritated me. However she did come around in the end and admitted she was wrong - see how Ron can do that? :) Penny: > You all still haven't met your "burden of proof" to show that Hermione likes > Ron back. When you can show me evidence of this that I can't refute with a > "straight-face" argument, then we'll see about shifting the BOP. As we speak our Chief Counsel Joanne (who moonlights as Admiral of the Good Ship R/H) is gathering the evidence. Discovery is going to be so much fun! < vbg> Jim said: > She absolutely does...and I won't. -Mo ****************************************************************************** *********** "Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!" -Hermione Granger to Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 17:43:05 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:43:05 -0000 Subject: Harry's Height In-Reply-To: <94uptq+gd0s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94v1b9+299g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10964 A few other things to throw into the question of whether Harry is currently short and will remain so: -Harry is "still rather small and skinny for his age" in PoA despite having "grown a few inches over the last year" (PA ch 1) No wonder he had such a bad year--his best friend got petrified, everyone thought he was the Heir of Slytherin, and on top of it all he had growing pains to beat the band. -Ron's midget comment has to be weighed with the fact that Ron himself is pretty tall. However, it does follow Trelawney's remark about Harry's "mean stature" so it's safe to assume he's still shorter than average in GoF. -Someone's resemblance to a parent in some ways (facial features, hair) doesn't necessarily mean he'll resemble him in another way (height). -Boys do keep growing longer than girls, often 'til 20 or beyond. -I believe that people who are abused/neglected/malnourished early in life may have a growth spurt at a much later age than most people do. I don't know if there's any scientific basis for this, but it is definitely true that abuse/neglect can affect physical development, and I have a friend, badly abused in childhood, who grew a few inches taller in his mid-30's when he was safe and more or less recovered. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From john at walton.to Sat Jan 27 17:46:34 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:46:34 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: SUBJECT HEADINGS (esp. re: Anyone???) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10965 Okay, your ever-so-slightly miffed Moderator With Rock #47 here again. My Rock is starting to get a little tired of repeatedly reminding the list to use proper subject headings. If you do receive a post entitled "Anyone???" which should be retitled, CHANGE IT! It's not hard. If you want to make sure nobody loses the thread, change it as so: "PoA Paperback Editions (was: Anyone???)" or "Mailorder GoF Edition blooper (was: Anyone???)" For the sake of the folks who are combing through your every word looking for things to add to the Frequently Asked Questions file, it's very important that you observe common netiquette and use an appropriate subject heading. If you don't, I'll bash you with my Rock. Clear? >:) --John, for the Moderator Team == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =|?Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 27 17:47:24 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:47:24 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: ADMIN: Tomorrow's chat @ YahooGroups (more advice & instructions) In-Reply-To: <006601c08882$a9eecf20$033670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10966 Neil wrote: "**If you register with Cheetachat, you can save the HPforGrownUps chatroom as one of your favourites by selecting Rooms from the top menu bar, then Favorite Rooms, then Manage Favorite Rooms. Then, if you then click 'ADD', and enter the following handy code - *g2176166:1 - the HPfor GrownUps chatroom will become one of your favourites. Could it be any other way?" The handy code is so easy to remember (aims glare at Yahoo Groups for not making them nice and easy to remember like the old club) that our dear moderator, the one that believes himself to be a car, missed out a small but very important detail. It should be: *g.2176166:1 (Please note the full stop / period after the letter g - it may be small and easy to miss but without it you end up in the wrong place). Simon From monika at darwin.inka.de Sat Jan 27 17:47:53 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:47:53 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hormone bombs In-Reply-To: <3A72353F.5B84ED95@texas.net> References: <01c0879a$a2494cc0$0800a8c0@Serwer> <3A72353F.5B84ED95@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10967 On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:41:03 -0600, Amanda Lewanski wrote: >Monika Huebner wrote: > >> Well, teenage boys aren't very sensitive most of the time, they are >> some sort of "hormone bombs" (sorry to all you guys, I know there are >> exceptions to this rule :-)) > >Hey, at least most of *them* grow out of it. The above is my definition of the >mental state of PMS, which cometh and goeth like the tide, but the eternal ocean >remaineth ever, if you get my drift. Unless you're pregnant, in which case it >cometh and stayeth for nine or more months. I know that, and I am convinced that Sirius grew out of it (how couldn't I be, since he is my favorite character?). I just wanted to illustrate that I won't blame him all his life for sending Snape into the tunnel (sorry Amanda, I know you're rather with Snape here...). Oh well, never mind. ;) Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 17:51:50 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:51:50 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It In-Reply-To: <3A73039B.29068A7A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94v1rm+dnns@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10968 I said:"Ron and Harry were having identical problems getting up the gumption to ask dates for the Yule Ball. Hermione never said one word to Harry, but plenty to Ron ["Well spotted!"]. She's ticked off he hasn't noticed her. If she didn't care, she wouldn't be." Penny responded: "I put a different spin on this (surprise!). A few pages earlier Ron told Harry that they'd better get a move on or they'd be stuck with a "pair of trolls." Hermione was naturally indignant about this churlish remark and leaves the room in a huff. So, when later it's apparent that Ron has been rebuffed by Fleur and looking desperate, I think Hermione takes some self-satisfied glee at his predicament." Ron *is* much more a typical 14 yeard old adolescent male oaf, isn't he? I feel she did and does want him to notice her, and is exasperated he doesn't. Their row after the ball reinforces the idea. But your interpretation is reasonable, I must admit. Penny: "And, I insist we don't know the full story. Harry just knows that Ron doesn't realize he has feelings for Hermione. There's nothing whatever said about her feelings for him." I don't think Harry would have thought that 'Hermione got the point better than Ron' in that event. He senses what's going on, I believe. I said:"Hermione, like any young woman, wants to be noticed. She definitely wants *Ron* to notice." Penny replied:" Aahhh .... I don't know about that. The H/H'ers have just as many arguments that she has feelings for Harry as the R/H crowd has for their position." Of course Hermione has feelings for Harry. She LOVES him. He's really important to her, and her to him. But I go back to words I put in her mouth: "I love him, I know I do, but I don't know what way I love him." The Trio all love each other. That makes this argument complicated. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 17:59:02 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:59:02 -0000 Subject: R/H but in step with Ebony (was Shipping and other HP4GU Debates) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94v296+92sd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10969 Ebony, I read your long-awaited post with great eagerness to discover what other tendencies R/Hers and H/Hers show. But I don't know where I fit in, because I'm an R/Her but I strongly agree with almost all of your statements 1-8. Actually, the only one I can't say I agree with is #8 (what kinds of fanfic one likes), and it's not that I disagree, it's just that I haven't noticed a pattern to the kinds of plot, timing or settings I like in fanfiction. I like fanfics that are character-driven and in which the characters flow believably out of what we know of them from canon. And they have to be well-written, something I won't attempt to define here. If they fit these criteria they can be post-Hogwarts, MWPP, set in a London nightclub, whatever and it's okay by me. And I'll chime in that not only do I think Hermione is more than brains (#4), I do think there is a great deal of support for that opinion in canon. She is brave (setting aside that horrendous cowering-in-the-corner-while-the-menfolk-fight-the-troll scene), loyal, resourceful, kind, perceptive, diplomatic when she wants to be, passionate about justice, and self-aware. She can even be funny. As for #1, I have voiced my concerns about SuperHarry before, but I do agree that SuperHarry is heavily supported by the canon. I take comfort from those who have chimed in on the list to point out that even those who are unique in their abilities still have to make the right choices. I hope and trust that JKR will continue to emphasize Harry's choices and character over his UberWizard talents and (shudder) his Destiny. So whaddaya think? Am I an H/Her at heart? Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron peered into Harry's teacup, his forehead wrinkled with effort. "There's a blob a bit like a bowler hat," he said. "Maybe you're going to work for the Ministry of Magic. . . ." -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 17:32:43 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:32:43 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Tomorrow's chat...IMPORTANT CORRECTION! References: Message-ID: <00a401c08887$286a6e00$033670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10970 Dr B wrote: > Neil wrote: "**If you register with Cheetachat, you can save the > HPforGrownUps chatroom as one of your favourites by selecting Rooms from the > top menu bar, then Favorite Rooms, then Manage Favorite Rooms. Then, if you > then click 'ADD', and enter the following handy code - *g2176166:1 - the > HPfor GrownUps chatroom will become one of your favourites. Could it be any > other way?" > > The handy code is so easy to remember (aims glare at Yahoo Groups for not > making them nice and easy to remember like the old club) that our dear > moderator, the one that believes himself to be a car, missed out a small but > very important detail. It should be: *g.2176166:1 (Please note the full > stop / period after the letter g - it may be small and easy to miss but > without it you end up in the wrong place). Doh! [smacks self on dented bonnet*]. Thanks Dr B - I knew I'd get something wrong. I'd better check my own settings now. I'm probably logging in at 'sex-starved, nude vixens' instead of 'HPfor Grown Ups'. * BTW, Scholastic told me I should change bonnet to hood, but I resisted. Neil Mechanimagus Moderator _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sat Jan 27 18:13:00 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:13:00 -0000 Subject: Ron Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10971 Trina wrote: "I think Ron's acceptance of Hagrid's giant heritage is an example of how he has matured in the year between the Shrieking Shack and the Skeeter tell-all article. He learned that werewolves and escaped Azkaban prisoners were not the terrors he thought they were. Plus he had known Hagrid for a longer period of time, so the trust was already there." I think the different attitude of Ron in these two situations tells us very little. In GoF he is supporting Hagrid. Someone who he has been friends with almost since his arrival at the school and also someone who he has done research for (remember we are talking about Ron working here). The attack on Hagrid is coming from someone else and Ron is standing against this viewpoint and supporting a friend. In PoA we are talking about Lupin. Someone who he has just seen walk in and 'embrace Black like a brother'. Remember Black is a convicted criminal, who has just kidnapped Ron and done so guessing that Harry would act like his father and come after them. He is someone who has been after Harry for the year and is intent on killing him (Yes - I know this is not the truth, but it is almost definitely what Ron is thinking at the time). Lupin has just made it perfectly clear that he supports Black and Hermione has just revealed that he a werewolf. Ron's reaction is a typical insult. Do not call someone by his or her name but use what is considered to be a derogatory term to describe him or her. At that moment he loathes Lupin and everything to do with him. He wants no contact with him and this extends to not using his name as well. Ron is thinking that he is standing up for his friend Harry and against someone who is conspiring to kill him. His interest is to protect Harry and see if he can get him safely away from Black, and now also Lupin. Simon -- IDENTITY - See Yourself in a New Light "The greatest miricale is not that man stood on the moon; it is that God came and stood in the Earth." - Col. James Irwin From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sat Jan 27 19:23:47 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:23:47 -0800 Subject: Why I'm pro-H/G (was: [HPforGrownups] Ginny) In-Reply-To: <94tdgs+hjjk@eGroups.com> References: <94t7o0+oj26@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010127110440.02e9f2a0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10972 For me, Ginny and Cho represent the two ultimate archtypes for the female sex (at least in my experience): The "Cho Changs" are bright, gregarious, charismatic, usually have a great sense of humor, and are of course popular. Unfortunately, they are also frequently somewhat shallow, flighty, and almost always have crummy taste in men. The "Ginnys" are shy, quiet, pensive, awkward and not popular. They are usually the ones possessing true courage, passion (however latent), and strength of character, but they frequently get lost and unnoticed (especially by boys) in the sea of extroverted "Chos". (I apologize to all women who don't fit into one of the above... It's strictly a generalization based on personal experience.) I guess I'm for Harry/Ginny because I see Harry making the same mistake I made repeatedly in school and going for the "Chos" (and always getting hurt by them) and brushing off the "Ginnys" who are really worth something. I want Harry not to repeat my fatal mistake, and to sweep up Ginny before it's too late. -- Dave From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 27 19:24:18 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:24:18 -0000 Subject: Canadia GoF editions (was Re: Anyone???) In-Reply-To: <94uuqn+eh42@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94v792+5sv3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10973 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Isabelle" wrote: > The Canadian versions have both Raincoast and Bloomsbury written on > the spine- we ARE a British colony, after all. Plus, there were so > many first edition books printed there are still some first editions > in the bookstores! > Yes...my box-set of the first three books are all Raincoat editions. It's just that I was surprised to see that my copy of GoF has nothing related to or mentioning Raincoast in or on it anywhere. The price on the dust jacket is quoted in pounds, not Canadian dollars. The reason this surprised me is that, from the Chapters.ca website I was under the impression that Bloomsbury editions were rather more expensive than the Raincoast editions, and I consciously ordered the latter to save a few bucks. I'm pretty sure they charged me at the Raincoast rate, too. C'est la vie! marvin From pbnesbit at msn.com Sat Jan 27 19:41:11 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:41:11 -0000 Subject: YahooGroups changeover--resetting bookmarks (favourites) Message-ID: <94v88n+jp88@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10974 John mentioned having to change our eGroups bookmarks settings over to YahooGroups. I assume by bookmarks he means favourites. Just how does one go about doing this?? Thanks galleons, Parker From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 19:42:32 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:42:32 -0000 Subject: Why I'm pro-H/G (was: [HPforGrownups] Ginny) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010127110440.02e9f2a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <94v8b8+tvs1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10975 Dave:"The "Cho Changs" are bright, gregarious, charismatic, usually have a great sense of humor, and are of course popular. Unfortunately, they are also frequently somewhat shallow, flighty, and almost always have crummy taste in men. The "Ginnys" are shy, quiet, pensive, awkward and not popular. They are usually the ones possessing true courage, passion (however latent), and strength of character, but they frequently get lost and unnoticed (especially by boys) in the sea of extroverted "Chos". Yes! Yes! And as one who did not do well with females of any kind, I wish I could take Harry aside and tell him that. Maybe that's the dynamic of H/G men: we see this as Harry's chance to do better than we did. I would be glad to have a woman who had Molly for a mother. In Cho's defense, she hasn't show us any Fleur-like tendencies. She's been nice to Harry, and turned him down more kindly than I ever was. And I can't agree there aren't just the two archetypes. Dave:"I guess I'm for Harry/Ginny because I see Harry making the same mistake I made repeatedly in school and going for the "Chos" (and always getting hurt by them) and brushing off the "Ginnys" who are really worth something. I want Harry not to repeat my fatal mistake, and to sweep up Ginny before it's too late." Hear, hear! -- Dave From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 27 19:42:47 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:42:47 -0000 Subject: question for noshippers Message-ID: <94v8bn+1ds2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10976 Well, if there are more than two, anyway. :-) I thought up the Unterseeboot Noship on a whim, but I wonder if my idea of "noshipping" matches the ideas of other noshippers. For me, what noshipping is most emphatically *not* is the "no-romo" of X-files fanfic--people convinced that Mulder and Scully mustn't under any circumstances fall in love. That's not what I'm after. The Uboat isn't interested in torpedoing the shippers' cruise lines. Rather, from my POV noshipping isn't "anti-shipping," it's just, "not shipping." As in, "I have no positive desire to see any of our trio pair off with one another or any of the secondary characters." It doesn't imply that I deplore the idea of an H/H or R/H pairing, it just means that I'm not anxious to see one happen. In other words, I'm not craving the vicarious thrill of seeing a romance between any of these three characters. (I'm just jonesing hard for book 5. Hurry *up* already, Rowling!) If such a thing does happen in future books, I'm more concerned with seeing JKR handle the situation *well* regardless of what pairing she might come up with. Also, I see nothing incongruous about a noshipper tossing a few words into shipper debates, for two reasons. 1) These debates are (sometimes) interesting, particularly when they involve textually grounded speculation regarding the characters. 2) These debates are often highly amusing, producing the image of a gaggle of soap-opera fans pining over the hunk and vixen of the week. ;-) And it's just hard not to poke fun at this sort of thing. All in good humor, of course. Awooooga! marvin :-) From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 27 18:44:55 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:44:55 EDT Subject: Calling Dadgrid! Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10977 Hi there - I've had a few requests today offlist from several members requesting that you *please* repost the link to "The Letter." Thanks, Jeralyn, the Voicelady Moderator Team From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sat Jan 27 19:57:50 2001 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 27 Jan 2001 19:57:50 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980625470.4163.10758.s5@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10978 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Dadgrid/The Granger Interview.htm Uploaded by : jferer at yahoo.com Description : An Interview with Hermione. The HP books are not fiction. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Fan+Fiction/Dadgrid/The+Granger+Interview.htm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, jferer at yahoo.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 20:00:52 2001 From: StephanieMalfoy at hotmail.com (Stephanie Malfoy) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:00:52 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10979 >H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > >Penny >Carole >Lori >Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire >John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag >Scott >Heather >Heidi > >I do believe there's more of you out there. Ok, so I always said I did not ship (Except for Draco and Ginny, since he cant have Herm and all...) But as i began writing my first ever fan fic, i realized i had to. And I DID have Ron and Hermione dating, but i decided they broke up and ron is with padma now, which meant Harry and Hermione were an obvious choice....so I guess I am on the good ship H/H now.... Stephanie who always said Harry and Hermione would never end up together _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sat Jan 27 19:59:32 2001 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 27 Jan 2001 19:59:32 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980625572.6385.10566.s5@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10980 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/Dadgrid/TheLetter.htm Uploaded by : jferer at yahoo.com Description : What would you do if your child got a Hogwarts letter? You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Fan+Fiction/Dadgrid/TheLetter.htm To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, jferer at yahoo.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 20:03:40 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:03:40 -0000 Subject: The Chos and Cedrics of the world (was: Why I'm pro-H/G) In-Reply-To: <94v8b8+tvs1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94v9is+ihg2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10981 Jim wrote: > In Cho's defense, she hasn't show us any Fleur-like tendencies. She's > been nice to Harry, and turned him down more kindly than I ever was. I'm more a Ginny than a Cho, but I agree--it's unfair to assume that Cho is flighty, shallow, etc. just because she's pretty and talented and popular. She seems really nice from the little we know, e.g. when she tells Harry she can't go to the dance with him. Cedric falls prey to the same stereotype--almost all of the Gryffindors dislike him. He's handsome, popular, a prefect, captain of his Quidditch team, and worst of all, of course, beat them at Quidditch, ergo he must be a jerk. But the fact is, the guy's a class act--we know that from the first match, when he calls for a rematch because of the Dementors. Etc. etc.--everything we know about him is good (okay, he doesn't believe Harry didn't put his name in the Goblet of Fire, but you can't blame him for that). Amy Z who can't believe she's sticking up for the Popular Crowd From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 27 20:06:36 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 14:06:36 -0600 Subject: Female Archetypes References: <94t7o0+oj26@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010127110440.02e9f2a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A732A4B.758484BF@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10982 Hi -- Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > For me, Ginny and Cho represent the two ultimate archtypes for the female sex (at least in my experience): > > The "Cho Changs" are bright, gregarious, charismatic, usually have a great sense of humor, and are of course popular. Unfortunately, they are also frequently somewhat shallow, > flighty, and almost > always have crummy taste in men. I don't know that I would put Cho into this category honestly. She does seem bright, gregarious & charismatic. But, she seems to have a quiet side as well. She definitely doesn't seem shallow or flighty. > The "Ginnys" are shy, quiet, pensive, awkward and not popular. They are usually the ones possessing true courage, passion (however latent), and strength of character, but they > frequently get lost and unnoticed (especially by boys) in the sea of extroverted "Chos". I was definitely a "Ginny" in high school. Perhaps that's why I have such little sympathy for her. :--) Although, I must also point out that Ron said in CoS that Ginny "usually never shuts up." Do we as readers have the perception that she's a shy wallflower because that's how Harry perceives her? > (I apologize to all women who don't fit into one of the above... It's strictly a generalization based on personal experience.) It's a *big* generalization Dave. Where does Hermione fit into your equation? Minerva McGonagall? What about Molly Weasley? Molly is hardly a shy wallflower type after all. But, she's not shallow & vapid either. Penny From jferer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 20:14:16 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:14:16 -0000 Subject: The Chos and Cedrics of the world (was: Why I'm pro-H/G) In-Reply-To: <94v9is+ihg2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94va6o+4g5h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10983 Amy:"I'm more a Ginny than a Cho, but I agree--it's unfair to assume that Cho is flighty, shallow, etc. just because she's pretty and talented and popular. She seems really nice from the little we know, e.g. when she tells Harry she can't go to the dance with him." I'm more Ginny that Cho also, but can't figure out where all the anti-Cho stuff comes from. It's just an "innocent till proven guilty" thing with me. Amy:"Cedric falls prey to the same stereotype--almost all of the Gryffindors dislike him. He's handsome, popular, a prefect, captain of his Quidditch team, and worst of all, of course, beat them at Quidditch, ergo he must be a jerk. But the fact is, the guy's a class act--we know that from the first match, when he calls for a rematch because of the Dementors. Etc. etc.--everything we know about him is good (okay, he doesn't believe Harry didn't put his name in the Goblet of Fire, but you can't blame him for that)." Harry knows it, too. His nose was out of joint, that's all, when he called Cedric a 'useless pretty boy' without a brain in his head. If I was 14 I'd say the same thing about the guy who aced me out of the date I wanted but didn't have the nerve to ask. They were friends before the end. > > Amy Z > who can't believe she's sticking up for the Popular Crowd From john at walton.to Sat Jan 27 20:17:46 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:17:46 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: YahooGroups changeover--resetting bookmarks (favourites) In-Reply-To: <94v88n+jp88@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10984 pbnesbit at msn.com wrote: > John mentioned having to change our eGroups bookmarks settings over > to YahooGroups. I assume by bookmarks he means favourites. Just how > does one go about doing this?? Yes, bookmarks in Netscape and favorites in IE and (::spits on floor::) the AOL own-brand browser. Resetting them is actually quite easy -- all you have to do is change the www.egroups.com part of it to groups.yahoo.com -- For instance: http://www.egroups.com/group/HPforGrownups would change to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups and http://www.egroups/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt etc ad infinitum ad nauseum. =========== Doing it "manually" is actually easier than deleting all your old bookmarks/favorites and starting again from scratch. Happy to help (and so's my Rock)! --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From msl at fc.net Sat Jan 27 20:29:22 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:29:22 -0000 Subject: The Trio and the nature of love In-Reply-To: <94v01u+85ab@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vb32+225g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10985 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > Well, yes, but that's often because these companions are the same > gender. There's been plenty enough war marriages when the biology > was right. It's not really a good comparison, though, because war marriages don't generally occur between fellow combatants (and it's not uncommon for war romances and marriages to wither once the war's over and everybody's blood cools). I guess my point is that just because two guys manage to get along swimmingly in a foxhole doesn't imply that they would make great friends or neighbors or officemates in peacetime...a lot of the things that seem important in civilian, domestic life in determining friends and companions get submerged in excpetional circumstances such as war (and high school). There's no guarantee that bonds which form under one circumstance will be able to grow beyond that circumstance. > I agree, but the Trio's relationship began before the Second > Voldemort War, which has only just begun, and so has roots beyond > the conflict. I think I disagree with this on textual grounds. IMO the Second Voldemort War began when Harry got to Hogwarts in his first year; or even better, when Voldemort seduced Prof. Quirrell. The point here being that Harry and his companions have been in some kind of danger on and off pretty much ever since they got to school. Wherever Harry goes, something awful happens (kind of like on "Murder She Wrote") so I don't think we can say that these otherwise ordinary kids have had a chance to form friendships under ordinary circumstances. > Marvin:"The buddies will likely get together to reminisce as years > go > by, but they aren't likely to spend the rest of their lives seeking > one another out. I think that once the "war" ends, if everybody > survives, our trio will find themselves gradually turning into very > different people, as we all do, becoming more unique and more > ourselves. " > > That could happen. Again, though, they have a history before the > War, and a bond deeper than the war; but will the war experience > blot that out? I don't think that growing up will blot out the trio's affection for one another at all; it's just that when people grow older they often find themselves with new priorities. The bonds the kids form when studying or fighting Voldemort may not apply when the start looking for someone with whom to live and raise children, assuming they want that sort of thing at all. A person is one human being at 18, often a very different one at 25, yet a more different one at 30, and sometimes by 40 has become nearly unrecognizable. I don't object to the possibility of the shipper pairings that people throw around; I just think that even when all 7 books are finished, assuming that JKR hasn't settled these matters definitively, we still won't have enough information to guess who will marry or live with whom. It seems to me that trying to guess who an 18-year old (heck, 14-year old!) person will be at thirty--which is what most shipping pretty much amounts to, as far as I can see--is a little bit like trying to guess who will be president in 12 or 16 years. It's a fairly pointless exercise. (*Unless* it just happens to give you lots of jollies, so why not?) :-) > "Periscope down! Awooga! Dive, Uboat Noship, dive!" > > The lonely noshippers grab stanchions and pipes as the vessel shakes > like a dog's toy under a merciless barrage of the dreaded H/H depth > charges.."Vill der H/H destroyers nefer be zatisfied?" cries a > frightened young sailor. "How can ve expect mercy from zem?" his > companion replied. "Zay sent dat poor innocent Chinny to zat SS > unterfuehrer Draco. Zay vill stop at nuzink, I tell you, nuzink!!" "Shut up Johannsen! You're not on the SS Pettigrew anymore, so get a grip on yourself! Cruise ships don't carry depth charges; it's just that those people are so addled and defensive that they're throwing their kegs overboard trying to hit us. All we have to do is shadow the H/H and we'll have an eternal supply of beer, so cheer up." "Yes sir, sorry sir." "That's better. Now light my bong and get me my guitar, it's time for this submarine to surface." Marvin From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sat Jan 27 20:42:30 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:42:30 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Happy Family and the G/H Message-ID: <29.fb5d448.27a48cb6@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10986 In a message dated 1/27/2001 1:20:55 AM EST, kathleen at carr.org writes: << P.S. By the way, Elizabeth, you sure you don't want to reconsider and hop aboard our ship?> And leave the Malfoy yacht (a/k/a the Luscious Lucius)? I might consider it if you find some way for me to bring Draco and Harry and Harry's therapist along. Oh, and the margarita machine. Maybe you could tow us along with the H/G. Where are y'all headed? Harry's therapist keeps suggesting the Cote d'Azur, but I'm inclined to go someplace a bit more exotic. < We've got lots of Weasleys... >> This is *always* a good thing! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sat Jan 27 20:02:17 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:02:17 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Margaritas/Unterseeboot/"The Letter" Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10987 In a message dated 1/27/2001 1:20:55 AM EST, kathleen at carr.org writes: <> Hate to break it to you, but it's a well-established fact that *I* make the world's best margaritas, and I'm aboard the unterseeboot noshipper with Marvin and Johannsen. Give us a holler; we'll come pick you up! Jeralyn, the Voicelady IMPORTANT NOTE: Jim Ferer (aka Dadgrid) has posted his fics, The Letter and The Granger Interview into our files section. Anyone who would like to access them, go to our group's main site, and click on our files/fanfiction section, and it'll lead you right to them. From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sat Jan 27 21:04:33 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:04:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: One Big, Happy Weasley Family References: <94tln6+6nqp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A7337E1.4AA5C822@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 10988 moongirlk at yahoo.com wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > Hi -- > > > > moongirlk at y... wrote: > > > > Even though this was addressed to Cassie's post, I'll respond > quickly > > since I know I posted along the same lines -- > > > > > Then why make the comparison? I'm not asking for the natural > laws of > > > the universe to be broken, just for the poor kid to get a loving, > > > supportive, happy place to be after it's all over. Why is that > so bad? > > > > It's not bad to wish Harry will have a happy supportive family > someday. > > But, I don't think One Big Happy Weasley Family is the *only* way > for that > > to happen. Why *couldn't* he be happy with Hermione? > > He probably could. I'm not saying he can't, or that the happy family > idea is the only way, I'm just responding to the way some people > react to the idea. Here's my take on the One Big Happy Weasley Family - I go along with those who believe that Harry *is* already part of the family, even if it's not by marriage or blood - and here's why I feel this way. From the time I started junior high school (at 11) until my sister graduated college, at various times, each of us had close friends who had family difficulties living with us - either over the weekends (3 nights) during the school week, or pretty much full time. In fact, my sister's best friend from junior high moved in with my family when they were in 10th grade, and since the late 80's, I have called him "my brother" - and he is, in every way that counts. And if I was a weasley, and harry was my friend, I would do the exact same thing -we've even seen molly basically ask harry to stay for the whole summer, and it's only on Dumbledore's orders that he doesn't go with them straight from King's Cross. So to her mind (and mine) he *is* part of the One Big Happy Weasley Family, regardless of whether he marries her daughter (or, for you slashers out there, whether he marries her son...) From pbnesbit at msn.com Sat Jan 27 21:21:18 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:21:18 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Margaritas/Unterseeboot/"The Letter" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94ve4e+go0d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10989 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "voicelady" wrote: > > > > > IMPORTANT NOTE: Jim Ferer (aka Dadgrid) has posted his fics, The Letter and The Granger Interview into our files section. Anyone who would like to access them, go to our group's main site, and click on our files/fanfiction section, and it'll lead you right to them. Thanks, Jeralyn! Note to everyone who hasn't done so yet. Read Jim's fics--they're warm, funny & brilliantly written! Parker From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 27 21:20:56 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:20:56 -0000 Subject: Ultimate merchandise newsflash!/RH&HG catamaran?/Ginny factor Message-ID: <94ve3o+p93d@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10990 *BOWING* To: Jerlyn the voicelady I am not worthy! *bowing* *bowing* Granted, I just started buying Potter stuff this week. My husband is hoping that my obsession doesn't exceed my Scooby Doo paraphenilia! ULTIMATE POTTER MERCHANDISE NEWSFLASH!! I was watching the Homebuilders network and featured were play houses built by constructors for a children's charity. Some of them were worth over $25,000 to make! And up for auction: A mini Hogworth castle complete with Hogworth crest rug in the entrance way!!! I don't know how much it was but it was something to behold! Now THAT is for the truly certifiably obsessive HP nut! RH&HG Catamaran? It seems that many RH shippers like the idea of HG, too. (I apologize in advance if there are those that don't like the idea) If there are enough of us, maybe the RH ship and the HG ship can be joined into a RH&HG catamaran. Supporting two great ideas with one bond -- love! Although I am a loyal RH shipper, I do gaze at the HG boat and wonder the possibilities. What a fantastic scenario: Everyone living near Molly and Arthur Weasley. Harry and Ginny coming over with their kids and Ron and Hermione with their kids coming over for Christmas dinner and festivities. Maybe a couple of those little ones with Fred and George personalities apparating some canary creams to Dudley and his family! Aahhh, family bliss! Sorry *blush* rambling again! Sorry, Captain, Kathy! I hope I don't sound mutineous! Might make it easy for a few of our torn members...easier to go from one section to the other that way! <;o) Ginny factor We really can't discount Ginny! Sure the Hippograph is a cutie but I think that she is become more integral in the future books. If one that JKR has taught me is not not discount anyone because she will have them do something surprising for us. That whole Scabbers thing really threw me for a loop. He starts off just being a lazy hand me down old rat to an amazing Animagus that is the right hand of moldy Voldy and gets him back to power! Also, something about HP and Ginny has allowed them to survive V and that something was allowed into V during his encounters with them. It may take the two of them to bring V down later. That something may also bring them together. I'm counting on it...well...at least until the whole series is out...until then I will continue to sail on the RH with an eye on the HG ships. Christy From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Sat Jan 27 21:39:21 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:39:21 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Margaritas/Unterseeboot/"The Letter" Message-ID: <33.fe83c02.27a49a09@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10991 In a message dated 1/27/2001 4:09:32 PM EST, voicelady at mymailstation.com writes: << Hate to break it to you, but it's a well-established fact that *I* make the world's best margaritas, and I'm aboard the unterseeboot noshipper with Marvin and Johannsen. Give us a holler; we'll come pick you up! >> Jeralyn, I believe you, but I'm still going to have to do extensive taste test research on all of the margaritas served on all the various HP vessels now! I like being a no-shipper, though, so after I finish the research, I will consider joining you on the U-boat. It looks very peaceful and calm. Am I allowed to bring Harry and Draco along if I end up in the no-ship sub? And I would definitely need to bring Harry's therapist, as I'm quite claustrophobic! Love & Light, *Elizabeth* ~ You can never have too many Weaselys ~ ELM: There's a filk somewhere in this thread. I just know there is .... From pbnesbit at msn.com Sat Jan 27 21:55:04 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:55:04 -0000 Subject: Tomorrow's Chat/Cheetahchat Message-ID: <94vg3o+u2je@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10992 Neil and Simon told us about registering with Cheetahchat. OK, I've done this. *However*, on the grey bar that's on the logon "page", I seem to have "Generation X", which is, I believe, porn. How in the heck do I get this off? I did as you suggested and added the HPforGrownups as my favourite room. Gentlemen? Thanks galleons, Parker From yael_pou at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 22:43:46 2001 From: yael_pou at hotmail.com (yael o) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:43:46 +0200 Subject: farewell :( Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10993 Hi, With tears in my eyes Im writing this. It appears that I cannot deal with the traffic on this list. Browsing through 100-200 messages a day is beyond my reading capabilities. Ive tried choosing which messages to read by the subject line, but this still takes up around an hour a day, not to mention the heartache it gives me to delete messages that seem sooo interesting without reading them first. Id rather just not know... What kept me on for so long is the fact that I think youre all great people. Maybe a little mad but in the sweetest, funniest most adorable way. Id have taken each and every one of you home with me to sit over a cup of hot-drink-of-your-choice and talk HP for hours. You can still catch me on one of the less busy egroups HP_FanFiction, hp4ever and ParadigmOfUncertainty, and Id be more than delighted to receive private e-mails from you at this address (yael_pou at hotmail.com) or to my more private e-mail box: yael8765 at hotmail.com. Thank you for a wonderful time, and I hope to see you soon, yael *going away to deal with her withdrawal symptoms* _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 22:47:57 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:47:57 -0000 Subject: The Chos and Cedrics of the world (was: Why I'm pro-H/G) In-Reply-To: <94va6o+4g5h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vj6t+qiih@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10994 Jim said: > Harry knows it, too. His nose was out of joint, that's all, when he > called Cedric a 'useless pretty boy' without a brain in his head. If > I was 14 I'd say the same thing about the guy who aced me out of the > date I wanted but didn't have the nerve to ask. They were friends > before the end. Oh, definitely. I don't think Harry ever held CD's Quidditch victory or his dad's obnoxious comments against him, though Gred and Forge did. I thought the "useless pretty boy" line was a funny throwaway, not to be taken too seriously, and although Harry was not exactly feeling warm toward Cedric through most of GoF, I never saw anything that made me think Harry turned his disappointment re: Cho into real dislike of CD. Maybe that's just because I hate to think ill of Harry, but for what it's worth (~2 knuts)... Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We didn't give it to him because he's a Muggle!" said Fred indignantly. "No, we gave it to him because he's a great bullying git," said George. "Isn't he, Harry?" "Yeah, he is, Mr. Weasley," said Harry earnestly. --Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire ------------------------------------------------------------------- From pennylin at swbell.net Sat Jan 27 23:08:23 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:08:23 -0600 Subject: Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys Message-ID: <3A7354E7.6983C703@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 10995 Hi -- I don't know why this just hit me, but I'm wondering if the very fact that Harry got placed with the Dursleys and must return to the Dursleys each summer is even more solid proof that they are indeed his only living blood relatives (in other words, Hermione is not his sister or his second cousin, and the Weasleys are not suddenly going to be related to him either). It sounds as though the "ancient magic" that Dumbledore invoked for Harry's protection required that he be with blood relatives. It would make sense that they must be the *only* choice to fulfill this requirement, or Dumbledore wouldn't have placed him with such a hideous family (or continue to insist that he return there). Related questions though: What happens while he was at muggle school? Playing outside? Staying with Mrs. Figg? Was the fact that he *lived* with the Dursleys enough? I assume it's something similar to the Fidelius Charm and that Voldemort has no idea where to find Harry when he's not at Hogwarts (which, of course, is also protected -- although you must wonder about that Porkey getting through whatever wards are in place). But, brief absences seem to be okay (1-2 weeks with the Weasleys in CoS, 2 weeks at the Leaky Cauldron in PoA, and 2 weeks with the Weasleys again in GoF). I wonder how that works? Penny (pondering. ....) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 23:25:53 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:25:53 -0000 Subject: Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys In-Reply-To: <3A7354E7.6983C703@swbell.net> Message-ID: <94vle1+3scn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 10996 Penny asks: > Related questions though: What happens while he was at muggle school? > Playing outside? Staying with Mrs. Figg? Was the fact that he *lived* > with the Dursleys enough? I assume it's something similar to the > Fidelius Charm and that Voldemort has no idea where to find Harry when > he's not at Hogwarts And if it does work like the Fidelius Charm, shouldn't he be able to go anywhere safely once the Charm is enacted? Or does it only protect you within a certain area or group of locations? Was everyone worried about him the night he blew up Aunt Marge not only because Sirius was on the loose, but because being away from the Dursleys/Mrs. Figg/Privet Drive was dangerous under any circumstances? Amy Z ---------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------- From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sat Jan 27 23:34:38 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony Elizabeth Thomas) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:34:38 Subject: OBHWF/Plot Devices (possible duplicate) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 10997 Again, this may appear as a duplicate post thanks to my AOL/MSN Hotmail woes. As my post on Shipping and Other Theories took 2 1/3 days to arrive, I don't want this thread to sail on by before this posts. Apologies to the worthy Administrators and drowing HP4GUers in advance.) Said I wouldn't jump in unless one of my shipmates needed me... Most of my comments are just reinforcing Cassie's. Cassie wrote: >--------------- >Well, there you go. I do mind cliches, even if they allow my hero to >be happy. Like Carole said, it's perfectly possible to have your hero >be happy in an ending that isn't a cliche, and wouldn't that be much >better? It's also possible to re-invent cliches in fresh and innovative ways. I think that R/H is much more plausible in canon than H/G, but both *need to intertwine with the main plot* to work effectively. This is my major problem with it. Any good fiction writing workshop will teach you that plot=conflict. Without conflict, there is no plot. Aristotle gave us many valuable insights on plot that are still valuable today. These elements can be found throughout Western literature... and may be the unstated basis behind my ship's opposition to OBHWF. WEAK PLOT A "weak plot", as defined by Aristotle, is one that has a contrived mechanical ending in which outside forces step in and resolve the plot. Another use of unrealistic intervention is "reliance on coincidenece" to solve various other plot problems. This is what one of my dusty textbooks on creative writing says about reliance on coincidence: "For example, two lovers break up and marry other people. Fifty years later, their respective mates dead, they meet on a cruise ship bound for Greece and now are free to marry. Neither knew that the other would be on the cruise ship. It's a heartwarming story, one that occasionally appears in publications like *The National Enquirer*. Yes, it does happen--once in a million times. But it's not the stuff of fiction that represents real life. A jaundiced reader would probably say, 'Oh, come on now, I just can't believe this!' (H/Hers, does that sound familiar?) "As Mark Twain once said, 'Let miracles alone.' Weak plot is that which is *unrealistic*, *unmotivated*, and *unbelievable*." STRONG/COMPLEX PLOTS 1) Classical version: result from an intrinsic flaw that produces the hero's problem 2) Contemporary version: extraneous forces produce the hero's problem (Note: I think that Harry is a combination of the above.) 3) Specific elements include: --Reversals: events occur in which the protagonist moves from bad situations to good ones and vice-versa --Discoveries: certain revelations about the events in the story lead the protagonist to unravel events, and in doing so he/she discovers something about his/her strengths/weaknesses; the protagonist moves from self-ignorance to self-knowledge --Reversals and discoveries combined SHOULD produce strong emotions, such as pity and fear ***COMPLICATION: suspenseful incidents that occur from the beginning of the story up to a crucial point--a turning point following by a change from apparent success to adversity. --Catastrophe: produced by a reversal, it is the lowest point of action in the story and shows the protagonist in his or her greatest despair. --Recognition scene: a key scene in which the protagonist understands the relationship of his/her character flaw to the problem and understands his or her moral responsibility and relationship to the universe. --Resolution: that which extends from the turning point of the story There are also thematic W plots, simple plots, episodic plots, hourglass plots, circle plots, etc. Good fiction writing is all about "raising the stakes" at strategic points. In all my training as a creative writer, I can't see how the OBHWF scenario contributes to any stakes-raising. ("Oh, great!" said Harry, holding Ginny's hand and beaming at Ron and Hermione. "I knew you two liked each other.") It may be smile-inducing, but it does nothing to raise the stakes. On the other hand, I humbly suggest that H/H causes an immediate stakes-raising in canon--which is why most non-H/H fans--even so-called no-shippers--are disquieted by the very idea of it. (To be sure, there are plenty of H/H fics that read: "Oh, great!" said Ron, holding Lavender's hand and beaming at Harry and Hermione. "I knew you two liked each other." Those make me smile, but are not very interesting either.) I agree with the R/Hers on this crucial point: any glimmer of H/H developing in canon would cause more of a rift in the Trio than R/H or OBHWF. As JKR has chosen to focus on the theme of friendship rather than romance up to this point, I can't see her writing romance for romance's sake. I do see her possibly setting up romance to be used as a plot device as applied to her theme. I don't believe Jo's mission is to make us comfortable. H/H shipper though I am, and as much as I'd like to see it happen post-canon, I honestly think that if Hermione doesn't return Ron's feelings, there's going to be a moment or two of cringing in future books. Most of my theories pertain to post-canon scenarios and shipping in general. (Post-it note to no-shippers: most adult sailors are not matching up fourteen year olds.) However, my chats with my friend Jim and re-reading canon (I'm back to SS again today) have brought me to the following conclusion: the Friendship will be tested to its very limits. After all, a very old and wise Book tells me that in order to separate the gold from the dross, the refiner's fire must burn hot. Anything that can't withstand the fire isn't worth having anyway. Cassie wrote: >The opposition to the "Happy Family" idea is pretty much precisely >what Penny and Carole have already leaped into the fray and stated -- >that it would be an overly simplistic, and disingenuous-feeling >conclusion. Everybody Gets A Weasley. I could cope with R/H, or H/G, >but I find the concept of ending the series with the two couples >simply too insipid-- or, as Kathy put it, cheesy. I have a romantic >streak, and to an extent I like sap, but that would be too much for >me. Has anyone ever considered the fact that the One Big Happy Weasley Family might not be the best solution for everyone involved? I'd much rather see no ship at all. (It's funny that H/H and R/H are so diametrically opposed that both ships would rather see Ron and Harry slashed than for the other ship to prevail! What?) Cassie wrote: >It's got nothing to do with being an H/H shipper, either. I think it has more to do with the reasons stated above. Again, I do feel that we're all reading the books quite differently. As a creative writer-in-training, I like to try to get inside the character's psyches... and in a way, the author's. Learning by apprenticeship. When all is said and done, I agree with John the H/H Cabin Boy. Let's mix up the gene pool... if there's a gene pool at all in the end. Back to my cabin laboratory and my experiment, where a version of a possible future One Big Happy Weasley Family are my test subjects. Currently, they're all submerged in a vat of sudsy dishwater, but that may change. :-) Best, Ebony <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< Ebony AKA AngieJ (H/H Special Agent, First Class) "'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily. 'I thought two Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet campaign. You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.' "There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on Ron's face." --from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sat Jan 27 23:52:06 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:52:06 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Tomorrow's Chat/Cheetahchat References: <94vg3o+u2je@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <006401c088bc$2847d7c0$143770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 10999 Parker said: > Neil and Simon told us about registering with Cheetahchat. OK, I've > done this. *However*, on the grey bar that's on the logon "page", I > seem to have "Generation X", which is, I believe, porn. How in the > heck do I get this off? I did as you suggested and added the > HPforGrownups as my favourite room. Gentlemen? Hi Parker (and anyone else who has this problem), If you mean the bar that comes up in the middle of the entry 'box', labelled "Start in Room," it sounds like you have somehow been defaulted into Generation X and the software has entered that in your Favourites as well. Click on the Add/Change button to the right of that bar, and then select Favorites. You should see a display of all the rooms you have selected as Favorites. You can then Delete any unwanted rooms. I'm not sure about Generation X - isn't it just a general chatroom for 30-somethings? Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 00:36:13 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:36:13 -0000 Subject: Tomorrow's Chat/Cheetahchat In-Reply-To: <94vg3o+u2je@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vpht+1rkn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11000 Generation X is a chatroom in Yahoo. It's supposedly for the people of Generation X (I don't know the specific age limit), and that's the starting page for Yahoo Cheetachat. Isabelle --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pbnesbit at m... wrote: > Neil and Simon told us about registering with Cheetahchat. OK, I've > done this. *However*, on the grey bar that's on the logon "page", I > seem to have "Generation X", which is, I believe, porn. How in the > heck do I get this off? I did as you suggested and added the > HPforGrownups as my favourite room. Gentlemen? > > Thanks galleons, > > Parker From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 00:48:47 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (Ebony AKA AngieJ) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:48:47 -0000 Subject: Testing the Friendship/Question re: H/G In-Reply-To: <94ur1u+okuj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vq9f+sagd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11001 Kimberly wrote: "..there are not a lot of books that portray strong, flawed, loyal, insecure, REAL friendships and also take you on a great adventure. So if she manages to also wow me with romance, I'll be thrilled, and if she manages to allow happy-ever-after scenarios in the end, I'll be extatic, but honestly, at this point, if she did neither of the above, I'd still be satisfied, simply with the great characters she's created and the wonderful interactions she's given them." Jim Ferer replied: "In my heart of hearts I'd like to see Harry get everything: love a mate, love of his friends, love of a family. But in my head of heads I doubt it. Harry will lose a lot; he will lose friends; he may lose too much to bond with a mate, at least in canon. Family of some kind will still be there. That makes me a no-shipper on that level. I have my doubts if he'll have PTSD in the clinical, diagnostic sense, but Harry's going to be beat up pretty bad and he is going to pay a heavy price." I've been reading this thread with a lot of interest. Perhaps it's the fact that I'm doing a lot of analytical work for the sake of science. :-) Perhaps it's the fact that this evening I re-read a good portion of PS/SS and chuckled all over again about how the Friendship formed. It's really funny to see how Hermione's character has developed over the course of four books... at first, *she* was the third wheel and didn't really become an integral part of the Trio until the last 1/3 of the first novel. The last time I cycled through canon, I read with a focus on Ron because I wanted to be sure of my position re: his development. This go-round, I think I'll read with a focus on the Friendship. Again, I think the Friendship is going to be tested even further. No, it doesn't have to necessarily be tested by romance. It could be tested by any number of things. The Harry/Ron and Ron/Hermione tension foreshadows things to come. We talk often about the Ron-Hermione dynamic that may or may not be developing. I've said this before, it was disagreed with, but I'll say it again: the Friendship between the two boys is affected by the fact that each one to some degree wants to be the other. Of the three bonds, we've seen potential areas of tension and conflict develop in two of them. My idea is that the other bond (Harry-Hermione) isn't free of conflict/tension either. Not if they're really best friends... I'm of the opinion that they're as close as Harry/Ron and Ron/Hermione are. I leave other HP4GUers to speculate possible sources of conflict here, and will keep my opinions to myself. So far, the Three have been children and younger adolescents. As they grow into manhood and womanhood, as their personalities mature, and because of the crucible they're coming of age in--with their world's version of Hitler on the rampage--these bonds with inevitably stretch. Perhaps a bit uncomfortably. I doubt very seriously that they will break. Upon first reading, I was bothered by the Harry-Ron and Ron-Hermione tension in GoF. A lot. My favorite aspect of the canon was the Friendship by far, and I didn't want anything to change. But as I'm reading and thinking and making predictions about where this is going, I see that my previous position was a bit immature. I now agree with some of the members who have pointed out that the Harry- Ron post-Goblet falling-out was healthy and needed to occur. I also am *very* interested in observing the developing Ron-Hermione tension in future books... This is not to say that I want to break up the Friendship. I don't think that anything can sever *that* Friendship permanently. I don't thrive on unpleasantness, either. However, I do know that sound emotional and spiritual health is based on not running away from trouble or sweeping it under the rug. It involves facing trouble head-on. Hagrid's quote at the end of GoF is applicable to maintaining healthy social dynamics as well as fighting bad guys. :-) It would be really nice for the sake of certain theories if JKR was like LMM (another writer who focuses heavily on friendship), whose famous best friends Diana and Anne never had a serious quarrel from their first meeting at age eleven until they were grandmothers. However, fewer know that one of Maud's darkest books is *Emily's Quest*--not really light fluffy reading for children. The friendship in that series was tested to its very limits. The necesssity of testing the H-R-H Friendship even occurred to me while writing ten years after Hogwarts. What if the Friendship is *never* tested? What if things roll merrily along, with nary an insurmountable disagreement or serious conflict of interest? My hypothesis is that eventually it would become a ticking time bomb, affecting the others around them. Which is yet another reason why I'm not contented with OBHWF. One critique of modern society may be that we have no idea that a happily-ever-after ending isn't necessarily our birthright. Now, I'm not advocating for Hamlet endings, either. If great literature strives to be a record of who we are, then it should reflect the best part of us. It's one thing to have the Friendship endure forever as a harmonious entity, without any emotional or psychological tests. It's quite another to have the Friendship endure forever after having been tested to its very limits. Think of what a statement *that* would be--to have played together, laughed together, dreamed together, fought together, grown up together, adventured together, and then to come to the realization that it's all right if everything is not absolutely perfect... to realize that you have someone by your side who is not only your strong right arm, but knows your mind and your heart... Wow. If *that's* the statement JKR is making in her theme of friendship (which is indeed one of her major themes!), I'll be in full awe of her. NOTE RE: THE H/G DEBATE-- We've contrasted the Ginnys of the world with the Chos. However, those of us who are Hermiones are neither Ginnys nor Chos. Where does Hermione fit into that scenario? (Again, I'm beginning to think the idea is to Keep Hermione Out Of The Lineup.) :-) Best, Ebony AKA AngieJ From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 01:11:33 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:11:33 -0000 Subject: Testing the Friendship/Question re: H/G In-Reply-To: <94vq9f+sagd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vrk5+qnvr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11002 Ebony wrote: > It's one thing to have the Friendship endure forever as a harmonious > entity, without any emotional or psychological tests. > > It's quite another to have the Friendship endure forever after having > been tested to its very limits. Think of what a statement *that* > would be--to have played together, laughed together, dreamed > together, fought together, grown up together, adventured together, > and then to come to the realization that it's all right if everything > is not absolutely perfect... to realize that you have someone by your > side who is not only your strong right arm, but knows your mind and > your heart... > > Wow. > > If *that's* the statement JKR is making in her theme of friendship > (which is indeed one of her major themes!), I'll be in full awe of > her. This was so beautifully said that I couldn't snip it any shorter than that. And if you fill in "marriage" or "family" for "friendship," I think you have a very wise and true statement about marriage or family also. Which is to say that as much as we might long for a spot of romance and a happy-ever-after wedding and dinner round the table with the 20 Weasleys in books 5-7, the truth is that those things, too, endure only if tested. Otherwise the wedding is followed in time by disappointment and divorce and the OBHWF isn't so H. So thanks, JKR & Ebony, for the reminder that the tests themselves can be the key to ultimate strength and happiness. A side note: each one of the books is marked by serious discord in friendships. PS/SS: R&Ha don't even like Hermione 'til midway through. CoS: Harry is the pariah of the school. PA: Serious conflict btw. Ron and Hermione, and several weeks where neither boy talks to her. GF: Harry's the pariah again, plus the conflict with Ron. JKR's creativity in generating and resolving problems with friendships is rivalled only by her creativity in imagining plausible ways to get rid of DADA teachers. Amy Z From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 28 01:15:05 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:15:05 -0000 Subject: Margaritas/Unterseeboot/"The Letter" In-Reply-To: <33.fe83c02.27a49a09@aol.com> Message-ID: <94vrqp+nkqo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11003 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., mlleelizabeth at a... wrote: > Jeralyn writes: >> Hate to break it to you, but it's a well-established fact that *I* >> make the world's best margaritas, and I'm aboard the unterseeboot >> noshipper with Marvin and Johannsen. Give us a holler; we'll come >> pick you up! Marvelous! Voicelady is hereby appointed admiral of the bar. What's your preference, frozen or on the rocks? I like them on the rocks, myself, with just enough tequila to make you wonder where the lime juice went. But in all honestly I've met very few ritas that I didn't like regardless. mlleelizabeth replied: > Jeralyn, I believe you, but I'm still going to have to do extensive > taste test research on all of the margaritas served on all the > various HP vessels now! > I like being a no-shipper, though, so after I finish the research, > I will consider joining you on the U-boat. It looks very > peaceful and calm. Am I allowed to bring Harry and Draco along if > I end up in the no-ship sub? If Draco misbehaves, you'll have to discipline him, but OK! > And I would definitely need to bring Harry's therapist, as I'm >quite claustrophobic! Fear not: psychadelic submarines are roomier on the inside than they appear. :-) marvin From fefe at fazekas.hu Sun Jan 28 01:21:22 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (fefe at fazekas.hu) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:21:22 -0000 Subject: Hungarian books + a quiz :) (was: Book prices) In-Reply-To: <94t800+dord@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vs6i+ojse@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11004 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., rhodhry at y... wrote: > What are nromal prices for the translated versions of the Harry > Potter-books? The Norwegian edition of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" > (GoF bot being translated to Norwegian yet) goes for USD30/GBP20 per > copy - How does this compare to other countries? Prices of Hungarian books (only hardcover): PS - $5 CoS - $5 PoA - $6 GoF - $9 Don't laugh, they ARE expensive for us, especially GoF :) (OT) But it's still cheaper than 3 gallons of gasoline, and much more fun than driving 90-100 miles :) Excuse me for constantly whining about European gasoline prices, but my another obsession is cars and driving... Back to topic: i like these books, the translations of funny names are funny too, and the text is translated correctly. The only problem is that they were edited and printed in a hurry, so they contain punctuation errors (the most annoying type of errors, i think) and things like that. I hope that they will be corrected in later editions. bye Fefe "Ah! Bogoly Berti f?le Minden?z? drazs?! Ifj?koromban az a szerencs?tlens?g ?rt, hogy kifogtam egy hm... h?ny?s?z? darabot. Az?ta, sajna, nem sok kedvem van k?s?rletezni vele - de ett?l a finom tejkaramell?t?l nem kell f?lnem, igaz-e? Dumbledore mosolygott, ?s bekapta az egyik aranybarna drazs?t. Nyomban k?h?gni kezdett t?le. - Mordizomadta! F?lviasz!" (Harry Potter ?s a b?lcsek k?ve, 17. fejezet) OK, this is a quiz :) who can tell me which part is the above one ? :) From pbnesbit at msn.com Sun Jan 28 01:28:11 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:28:11 -0000 Subject: Tomorrow's Chat/Cheetahchat In-Reply-To: <006401c088bc$2847d7c0$143770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <94vsjb+sh2t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11005 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Neil Ward" wrote: > Parker said: > > > Neil and Simon told us about registering with Cheetahchat. OK, I've > > done this. *However*, on the grey bar that's on the logon "page", I > > seem to have "Generation X", which is, I believe, porn. How in the > > heck do I get this off? I did as you suggested and added the > > HPforGrownups as my favourite room. Gentlemen? > > Hi Parker (and anyone else who has this problem), > > If you mean the bar that comes up in the middle of the entry 'box', labelled > "Start in Room," it sounds like you have somehow been defaulted into > Generation X and the software has entered that in your Favourites as well. > > Click on the Add/Change button to the right of that bar, and then select > Favorites. You should see a display of all the rooms you have selected as > Favorites. You can then Delete any unwanted rooms. > > I'm not sure about Generation X - isn't it just a general chatroom for > 30-somethings? > > Neil > _____________________________________ > Flying-Ford-Anglia > > "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but > one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course > I succeeded in turning her into a yak! > - Thank you Kwikspell!" > > [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] Neil-- I tried your suggestion. For some reason it wouldn't allow me to delete Generation X. I do however, have *g.2176166:1 listed on my Favourites. Hope it works tomorrow! Thanks, Parker From rhodhry at yahoo.no Sun Jan 28 01:32:45 2001 From: rhodhry at yahoo.no (rhodhry at yahoo.no) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:32:45 -0000 Subject: Hungarian books + a quiz :) (was: Book prices) In-Reply-To: <94vs6i+ojse@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vsrt+mko5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11006 Expressed in gasoline at Norwegian prices (we are the world's second largest oil-exporter), the Norwegian translation (hardback) of PoA runs in at roughly seven US gallons (24-25 litres). _______________________________ "We are Yahoo! Your existence as you know it has come to an end. Your cultural and technical distinctiveness will be adapted to service .. us. You will service .. us. Prepare to be assimilated. To resist is futile. We are Yahoo!" --- In HPforGrownups at y..., fefe at f... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., rhodhry at y... wrote: > > What are nromal prices for the translated versions of the Harry > > Potter-books? The Norwegian edition of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" > > (GoF bot being translated to Norwegian yet) goes for USD30/GBP20 > per > > copy - How does this compare to other countries? > > Prices of Hungarian books (only hardcover): > > PS - $5 > CoS - $5 > PoA - $6 > GoF - $9 > [snip] From pbnesbit at msn.com Sun Jan 28 01:41:54 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:41:54 -0000 Subject: Hungarian books + a quiz :) (was: Book prices) In-Reply-To: <94vs6i+ojse@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vtd2+hqqf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11007 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., fefe at f... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., rhodhry at y... wrote: > > What are nromal prices for the translated versions of the Harry > > Potter-books? The Norwegian edition of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" > > (GoF bot being translated to Norwegian yet) goes for USD30/GBP20 > per > > copy - How does this compare to other countries? > > Prices of Hungarian books (only hardcover): > > PS - $5 > CoS - $5 > PoA - $6 > GoF - $9 > > Don't laugh, they ARE expensive for us, especially GoF :) (OT) But > it's still cheaper than 3 gallons of gasoline, and much more fun than > driving 90-100 miles :) Excuse me for constantly whining about > European gasoline prices, but my another obsession is cars and > driving... > Back to topic: i like these books, the translations of funny names > are funny too, and the text is translated correctly. The only problem > is that they were edited and printed in a hurry, so they contain > punctuation errors (the most annoying type of errors, i think) and > things like that. I hope that they will be corrected in later > editions. > > bye > Fefe > > "Ah! Bogoly Berti f?le Minden?z? drazs?! Ifj?koromban > az a > szerencs?tlens?g ?rt, hogy kifogtam egy hm... > h?ny?s?z? darabot. > Az?ta, sajna, nem sok kedvem van k?s?rletezni vele - de > ett?l a finom > tejkaramell?t?l nem kell f?lnem, igaz-e? > Dumbledore mosolygott, ?s bekapta az egyik aranybarna drazs?t. > Nyomban k?h?gni kezdett t?le. > - Mordizomadta! F?lviasz!" (Harry Potter ?s a b?lcsek > k?ve, 17. fejezet) > > OK, this is a quiz :) who can tell me which part is the above one ? :) Fefe-- Sorry about your high prices over there--especially petrol (and we Americans complain...!) The quote (I think) is from SS/PS "Ah! Bertie Bott's Every Flavour Beans! I was unfortunate enough in my youth to come across a vomit- flavoured one, and since then I'm afraid I've rather lost my liking for them--but I think I'll be safe with a nice toffee, don't you? He smiled and popped the golden-bean into his mouth. Then he choked and said, "Alas! Ear wax!" What do we get if we're right? (Give me Sirius & Remus & I'll be happy) Parker From alw at wilsonllp.com Sun Jan 28 01:48:30 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (alw at wilsonllp.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:48:30 -0000 Subject: Do Animagi choose their forms? In-Reply-To: <3A7239EE.FA3F842A@texas.net> Message-ID: <94vtpe+fi0c@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11008 I always got the impression from PoA that the Marauders had *some* say as to what kind of animal they changed into. Ch 18 (Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs) "Sirius and James transformed into such large animals, they were able to keep a werewolf in check." Now, that line doesn't necessarily say point blank that they *chose* to become a big dog and a stag, but I can't imagine that they would have taken a chance that they would turn into field mice or a nice canary - they wouldn't be able to do much to hold Moony in check as those animals. Granted, they were kids at the time and I'm sure they didn't think everything through all the way... Amy From amy at pressroom.com Sun Jan 28 01:50:35 2001 From: amy at pressroom.com (Amy Gourley) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:50:35 -0500 Subject: R/H ship/Draco's hair/Sims/Ginny/Hermione (long) References: <55.1064d7a2.27a4620d@aol.com> Message-ID: <010301c088cc$b5e58e00$0200a8c0@pressroom.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11009 Ahoy there! Is there room for one more on the Good Ship R/H? Reporting for duty Captain Kathy! I don't know if I really have anything to add but having been enjoying the R/H arguments a lot. I have been thinking-when did the business of Ron liking Hermione come out? I saw it in GoF, of course, and thought they would be a great couple. I have never heard of H/H until I started reading this group. I cannot see it for some reason. They seem too much like brother and sister to me where as Ron and Hermione have a much more dynamic relationship and would be good together. I forget who wrote about R and H's fight after the Yule ball and how Harry thought Hermione better illustrated the point. I just reread that earlier and thought that Harry does know about R and H liking each other and why don't they just say it. However, I wouldn't be too sad if JKR doesn't write it this way but I prefer R/H to H/H. Besides, Ron is my favorite character and I think if I was 14 I would have a crush on him.:) I am also partial to red hair.:) As for H/G, I don't see that. I think it's because Ginny is really developed yet. I don't see Harry with anyone right now. Maybe if someone new is introduced or an undeveloped character is developed more. If anyone, I think I like Harry and Fleur, of the characters we know. I too looked at the Japanese fan art (the pic of Neville is adorable) and noticed Draco with dark hair. For some reason, I always thought of him with dark hair as associating dark with evilness(not that Draco is totally evil though) Amy Z asked if there was an earlier reference of Draco's hair color than PoA. If there was, I must have missed it. Does anyone know for sure? Rina, I play the Sims too! I created a Harry, Vernon, Petunia, Dudley family. Did you notice how the one boy looks just like Harry? I even made Harry's room small in the house and Dudley have all the toys. I just made a Weasley family(minus Bill and Charlie) We'll see what happens. :) Penny writes: >Although, I must also point out that Ron said in CoS that >Ginny "usually >never shuts up." Do we as readers have the perception >that she's a shy wallflower because that's how Harry >perceives her? I think we're all more open (well, I am) around our families than others we don't know well. Or perhaps have a crush on. I don't know if she's really a shy wallflower or not but I tend to stick her in the category for now. I guess we'll find out later perhaps more about her personality. Someone else brought up about Ginny probably being Hermione's closest female friend. It bothers me sometimes that Hermione doesn't seem to have many female friends. It doesn't seem that she associates much with Lavender or Parvati. Why do you think it is? Is she more the type to have boys as friends? I think maybe she intimidates the other girls with her intelligence and know it all attitude. After all, Ron and Harry didn't become friends with her until after the troll incident. What do you all think? Well, I think that's all! I normally lurk but will try to post more. Amy G. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 01:54:30 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:54:30 -0000 Subject: The Trio and the nature of love In-Reply-To: <94ur1u+okuj@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vu4m+2ad2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11010 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > In my heart of hearts I'd like to see Harry get everthing: love a > mate, love of his friends, love of a family. But in my head of heads I > doubt it. Yes, I agree. I do have a realistic side that knows that I'm not very likely to get what I want. I know it's far-fetched and sappy. Many other of my sides don't really think that should factor into what I want, though, so there you are. Harry will lose a lot; he will lose friends; he may lose > too much to bond with a mate, at least in canon. Family of some kind > will still be there. That makes me a no-shipper on that level. I have > my doubts if he'll have PTSD in the clinical, diagnostic sense, but > Harry's going to be beat up pretty bad and he is going to pay a heavy > price. Yeah, there's little Harry will not have endured by the time this is all over - I don't know anything about PTSD really, but I'd say it's going to be a hard time. Whatever happens, if he *does* end up with someone, I hope it's someone patient and supportive (y'know, like Ginny!), and I hope he's able to retain the close bonds he has formed with friends, mentors and surrogate family. kimberly From alw at wilsonllp.com Sun Jan 28 01:56:18 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (alw at wilsonllp.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:56:18 -0000 Subject: U-boat Noship (was question for noshippers) In-Reply-To: <94v8bn+1ds2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vu82+b5g4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11011 May I come aboard? I definitely fall into the ranks of no-ship and I agree with Marvin's views of "no-ship" for the most part. The romance isn't what I focus on. If it happens...great! I'm very curious to see how JKR handles it. It was interesting seeing her throw into the whole Yule Ball/dating scenerio...imo it fits quite well with Harry and co's ages...they are 14. I enjoy the entire world that JKR has created - she's created so many interesting things that will manage to live on for years to come. Amy From fefe at fazekas.hu Sun Jan 28 01:57:34 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (fefe at fazekas.hu) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:57:34 -0000 Subject: To be (a shipper) or not to be :) (was: question for noshippers) In-Reply-To: <94v8bn+1ds2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vuae+kqm4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11012 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., msl at f... wrote: [...] > shipping." As in, "I have no positive desire to see any of our trio > pair off with one another or any of the secondary characters." It > doesn't imply that I deplore the idea of an H/H or R/H pairing, it > just means that I'm not anxious to see one happen. In other words, > I'm not craving the vicarious thrill of seeing a romance between any > of these three characters. (I'm just jonesing hard for book 5. Hurry > *up* already, Rowling!) > > If such a thing does happen in future books, I'm more concerned with > seeing JKR handle the situation *well* regardless of what pairing she > might come up with. I absolutely agree. I also like the idea of being a "no-shipper", i don't really care... maybe i should call myself a H/H shipper, but only because i like the H/H pairing. I don't want to convince anyone that H/H is better than H/R, i don't even really think so. I just can't help feeling myself a little bit in the place of Harry (this is probably because i'm an almost-teen boy :) and i really like Hermione. I know that this sounds really silly, but to me, the bookworm Hermione seems to be the type of girl i'd really like to meet in the reality :) Even if she had a bit long front teeth :) OK, sorry, i should be writing to a group called HPforSillyTeens :) > > Also, I see nothing incongruous about a noshipper tossing a few words > into shipper debates, for two reasons. 1) These debates are > (sometimes) interesting, particularly when they involve textually > grounded speculation regarding the characters. 2) These debates are > often highly amusing, producing the image of a gaggle of soap-opera > fans pining over the hunk and vixen of the week. ;-) And it's just > hard not to poke fun at this sort of thing. OK, it's fun on the list and in the fanfics, but if the series turns into a soap opera, i'll send our Jo a curse as soon as i can find a big enough envelope :) (OK, this was only a bad joke, i am sure it'll never happen) > > All in good humor, of course. > > Awooooga! > > marvin :-) bye Fefe :-) From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 02:16:06 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:16:06 -0000 Subject: Shipping and Other HP4GU Debates (long as usual) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <94vvd7+l89g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11013 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Ebony Elizabeth Thomas" wrote: > Hello, HP4GUers! > > M.C. Pandora wrote as an aside embedded in another post: > "(Similar to some 'converted' to Ron/Hermione and away from Harry/Cho > by GoF -- people do like to be right, and re-evaluate the past in > light of the present/future.)" > > Exactly. The above inspired my own brief foray into R/H land... as > skeptical as I was, I didn't want to debate with the Creator of the HP > Universe. Can anyone else relate to M.C.'s quote? I can't, really. The first time I read the books, I began suspecting something special between Ron and Hermione in PoA, not GoF. I admit I don't have conclusive evidence (I can satisfy myself, but I know I'll never satisfy everyone) that Hermione likes Ron, but the moment Hermione slapped Draco in PoA and all Ron could say was 'Hermione!' and then he reminded Harry and Hermione it was time for class (In a cute kind of role-reversal), I knew Ron was one smitten kitten. When I went back and reread the first 4 books again, I noticed something else. Ron's wit seems to be greatly sharpened by Hermione - after they become friends he becomes more funny, and he tends to be more 'on' around her. And Harry himself implied that Ron was good for Hermione's humility when he talked of him beating her in chess, so they're good for each other. I didn't change my mind about them after GoF - I never thought Harry and Hermione had any chemistry, and I always thought it was adorable the way Ginny embarrassed Harry with her adoration. Although I don't think there's anything wrong with changing your mind in accordance with, as you said, the 'Creator of the HP Universe'. And I think it would be unhealthy for me to choose a position on anything and stick to it despite what I might learn afterward. > > I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences are directly > related to the way we read the books in general. Interesting theory - I'd like to see where this goes! I'm game to try it out! Everyone on list knows > that I'm loudly, obnoxiously, and unashamedly H/H. I think I basically > agree with Penny on almost every issue in the fandom except that I think > Lily and James married young, and I still think Harry's a nickname. > :::grins at the listmom and H/H captain::: > > Here's my stance on those issues. What I'm wondering now is how other > H/Hers view the positions below, as opposed to those of other ships and > no-shippers. > > 1) I'm a SuperHarry advocate. The only reason I haven't jumped into the > debate with canonical evidence is b/c I've been under the weather. I've > been scouring the books in search of evidence of this theory (the crazy idea > had to have come from *somewhere* in canon) and have unearthed a few > nuggets. :-) I think I have enough on my hands with shipping, though. Right off the bat I can't agree with you, which may speak well of your personality theory. I am of a mind that Harry has the potential to be the next Dumbledore-caliber wizard, but I think if he were SuperHarry it would negate the main themes of the books, and be far more damaging to the integrity of the story than a happy-ever-after type ending. But that's just the way I look at it - as many have said, people read the books very differently, and there's room for all theories :). > > 2) Although I dislike the Slytherins in canon, I believe that both Draco > and Snape are redeemable in both canon and fanon. Even after Cassie's DD/DS > (which I love), I still distrusted Draco until I began writing TIP... during > the construction of the backstory and the writing, his character shocked me. > Here I agree with you, at least as far as canon - fanon I have no opinion on. Snape is clearly redeemable, and in fact doesn't really need redeeming (as he's a closet good guy), although he could certainly learn some manners and grooming. As for Draco, he could well redeem himself, although it would kinda ruin the great rivalry fun at school, so I hope if he does it's not until much later in the books. > 3) I identify strongly with Percy. I doubt very seriously that he will > become a Death Eater. I don't identify with Percy much. I see where he's coming from sometimes, but I can't say I really identify with him. But I agree with you that he's not likely to become a DE. I think he runs a strong risk of going the Fudge route, but even then I suspect he will eventually come around, when faced with the obvious choice between the ministry and his family. > > 4) I think that there's more to Hermione than brains. We still don't > *completely* know from canon why the Sorting Hat put her into Gryffindor. Agreed here too. Hermione has a lot of potential and we haven't seen all of the facets of her character. Although I do think she has already shown that she is a true Gryffindor, I think she will continue to grow and will become the true moral compass of the trio. > > 5) Ron, at this point, *really* needs to be onstage for a significant > portion of Book 5 so that his character can be developed more. Yay! I definitely agree with this one - the more Ron the better, so he can show the skeptics that he's not some closet evildoer. I *do* believe he struggles with jealousy and insecurity, and that there will be some tense moments and turning points. But I firmly believe, and I will find a hat to eat if I am proven wrong, that Ron will, in the end, prove himself to be just as loyal and self-sacrificing as he was in the chess game in SS/PS, on the grounds in PoA when he shoved Harry out of the way of the Grim/Sirius, and in the shreiking shack when he was determined to die in defense of his friend (kinda like Sirius). These decisions were made quickly, instinctually, and as much as it would tear me up, I wouldn't be all that surprised if Ron *does* end up choosing to die for his friends. In books 1-2 > I grinned at him and said "typical boy"... in books 3 and especially 4 I > really believed he needed to "get a grip". (No flames, please. The fact > that he's 14 at this point doesn't mean much to me--for the millionth time, > I spend two full hours a day with 13 and 14 year olds. Not all 14 year old > boys are like him. Only some of them are.) No flame here, you are entitled to your feelings, just as I am. Although I'd suggest that after 999.999 times, maybe the repetition of something for the millionth time isn't really gonna help much. ;) Sorry, I couldn't help it - my dad always used to tell my mother that when she'd say 'for the millionth time...' > > 6) I'm a small Hogwarts/wizarding world advocate. Unlike shipping, I don't > care to debate the issue that much. I can't get worked up enough about this one to have much of an opinion. > > 7) I have always thought the Wand Order issue was much ado about nothing. > Nice that it got our e-group the media recognition, though. Agreed again - I can't get too worried about that one either. > > 8) I love post-Hogwarts fanfics. I also like fanfics that attempt to > explain the scientific and cultural features of the magical world. While > shipping fluff and steamy romance fics are all well and good, my favorite > fics also deal with explaining important existential questions that JKR has > not dealt with thus far. Even my own soap opera has a lot of theory-type > gobbledygook in the background and in the backstory/outline that has > *nothing to do with shipping*. (That might explain Kathy's "UberFic" > theory--the most famous H/H subplot fics really focus on something besides > shipping entirely--H/H is not the cake itself in these fics, just the icing. > ) I can't agree or disagree here as I don't read fanfics. I'm not interested at this point. I probably will change my mind considerably after book 7 is over and I'm jonesing for more Harry & co - you may have noticed I change my mind rather often ;) So I don't know what that reveals about your theory in my case, as it was rather a mixed bag. > > Those are my positions. I've noticed that H/Hers seem to agree with many of > the above. In contrast, a recent visit to a very nice R/H site run by > grownups (hi, Zsenya!) revealed that most posters stood on the opposite side > of most of the above. > > So there's a bit more to shipping than just drawing a queen and a king from > a deck of cards. I'd say it reveals a lot about our personalities. I kinda doubt anyone disagrees much with you there. > > Kimberly wrote: > >I know as a newbie no-shipper I'm not the best person to respond to > >this, but as I came from and still have a certain affinity for the > >R/H ship's general philosophy, I thought I'd try. > > I've noticed that most of the no-shippers that participate in the > shipping debate (oxymoron, anyone?) don't usually travel on the SS H/H. We > still love 'em, though. I stand guilty of being totally wishy-washy, I admit it :) That's a part of my nature - wonder where that fits into the shipper/personality theory? Would be interesting to learn those things. But for the no-shippers out there who are firm and unlike me, I must respectfully take exception . They certainly have just as much reason to participate in the discussion as anyone else. Is there position less valid because they disagree with both of the bigger sides? Debates often have more than 2 points of view. I don't see an oxymoron there. > > A side note--I really don't believe that there is a such thing as a > no-shipper. I have too much gobbledygook in my head about the foundations > of Western cultural philosophy to subscribe to the existence of people > floating on inner tubes for the next two years at least... and am having > difficulty constructing a plausible scenario for land-lubbers. I know this was probably aimed at me, as I have changed my mind about a dozen times this week and I deserve it ;), but I wonder how the real no-shippers feel now that they don't exist - are you saying they're being disengenuous, or that they just don't know their own minds? With me it was #2, I assure you - it's hard to keep up with a mind that runs around as much as mine does. > > >There might be something to what you're saying. Kathy mentioned that > >some R/Hers tell her they're uncomfortable posting here because the > >atmosphere seems against it. I have heard the same. Maybe they > >perceive that they have something to defend themselves against if > >they post about it? > > The R/Hers now have a very nice site where they can express their opinions > without much rebuttal... I love visiting but only posted an intro. The > message boards are very active, but I've seen few counter-arguments over > there. I've also seen (sorry to bring this up, but I have to say it) HP4GU > shipping theories discussed over there and dissected. All in all, it's nice > vacationing on foreign cruise ships. :-) What's wrong with discussing theories in multiple forums? Some people post there that don't post here, and (yes, I do visit that board some as well), I have seen some very interesting insights. Do go back soon and check out the rest of the board, as the vast majority of what I've found over there isn't about ships. > > In contrast, there is no grown-up equivalent H/H site that I know of. Here > at HP4GU, the H/Hers get heat from R/Hers, other ships, and no- shippers. > The PoU list is not for ship discussions per se... Lori graciously allows a > couple of maritime posts there, but shipping back-and-forth in general (even > H/H) is OT. If you're bummed that now they've got a seperate place and H/Hers don't, I'm sure there are those who can recommend great places that host free websites! > > So I'll echo Penny here... it's not that the R/Hers are less vocal. Not anymore, they're not, but it took quite a long time for anyone to publicly join Kathy. > > >Maybe it's just that, being a lawyer, you're better at it that makes > >the R/Hers feel that way, or maybe it's the terminology that has been > >tossed around (disorders, destroyers, etc.). I'm quite happy myself > >that you've been steering away from them, because down here floating > >without a ship in the waters of ambiguous anticipation it's kinda > >scary to see two big ships face of in battle terms. > > A few quick points of clarification: > --I started the "destroyer" talk. I'm the only one who used the term. > Penny's earlier post checked me effectively. My apologies. Chalk it up to > my man being in uniform... and my own weird and sometimes culturally-derived > sense of humor. We'll be a cruise ship from now on. I'm sorry if I offended you - I didn't mean to scold or anything, I promise! :) I just really was uncomfortable with it, and I was thrilled to see the conversation turn to more lighthearted metaphors. > --I also started the "disorder" talk. Again, I apologize. My shipmates had > nothing to do with it. R/Hers will be simply "misguided" in the future. > --Penny's being a lawyer has little to do with her defense of the H/H ship. > I'm not a lawyer, and everyone around these parts know that I'm "loquacious" > (to quote my dear friend the R/H captain). There are other lawyers who do > not ship at all or sail on other vessels. Let's be fair. Again, I apologize too :) if you felt I was attacking - I think (hope!) Penny took my suggestion in the spirit it was intended - I may have been completely off-base, I was just tossing out ideas that might explain the phenomenon of R/Hers feelings, and Penny is a gifted debator. I wasn't trying to be unfair or accusing - I really was trying to help. Clearly I overstepped, and upset you - I apologize. > --The shipping theory I'm responsible for is the Freud one, and you *know* > that gave everyone a good laugh last month... I've seen it mentioned here or > elsewhere, but no one ever mentions that most H/Hers laughed along with the > rest of the list at me. I've also done field research into FITD, > along with Cassie and Heather. I do know - I got a kick out of it, and I thank you for it. My years studying French lit in grad school make it impossible for me to have much fun with literary theory anymore, but I did get a kick out of that one. I didn't think it was a point of contention, really. > > All right. I think that's it. > > Bear in mind that while the H/H Captain Penny is our listmom, there are 4-5 > other moderators who are confirmed no-shippers and check the vocal H/H > element effectively (and with good humor!) with posts like Neil's recent > Titanic post. That let me know in a subtle way that "destroyer" was not a > good term to use... and not to impress no-shippers into service a la the > British navy of 200 years ago. LOL! Again, I wasn't trying to say that someone was to blame, just that I observed that there was a widespread impression that I didn't think was intended or recognized and I thought addressing it would help. > > >I hope I'm not stepping on any toes - I don't mean to speak for one > >side or offend the other side. > > Not at all, Kimberly--one of my favorite people on list is the R/H > captain... she and I both work with kids and are addicted to fanfiction. So > much for the notion of a real war, when we're both "fraternizing with the > enemy" (Ron quote! LOL!) > Again, R/Her Rina has the right idea. Let's keep the tone light... I'll do > my best to comply with that. Me too - I hadn't realized I wasn't. I will include a joke, in order to show my intent! ;) Joke: A man walked into a bar. Ouch. Note - I stink at jokes! Happy Saturday, all! kimberly From fefe at fazekas.hu Sun Jan 28 02:18:20 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (fefe at fazekas.hu) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:18:20 -0000 Subject: Hungarian books + a quiz :) (was: Book prices) In-Reply-To: <94vtd2+hqqf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <94vvhc+an3a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11014 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pbnesbit at m... wrote: [...] > > OK, this is a quiz :) who can tell me which part is the above > one ? :) > > Fefe-- > > Sorry about your high prices over there--especially petrol (and we > Americans complain...!) > > The quote (I think) is from SS/PS "Ah! Bertie Bott's Every Flavour > Beans! I was unfortunate enough in my youth to come across a vomit- > flavoured one, and since then I'm afraid I've rather lost my liking > for them--but I think I'll be safe with a nice toffee, don't you? > He smiled and popped the golden-bean into his mouth. Then he choked > and said, "Alas! Ear wax!" > Yeah, you're right ! Congratulations ! I really wondered if anyone can find it out because Hungarian is really not similar to any other languages in the world... but Dumbledore could have helped. > What do we get if we're right? (Give me Sirius & Remus & I'll be > happy) Only if you give me Hermione in exchange :) (preferably in a 18-19 years old version... am i asking too much ? :) > > Parker Fefe From sashibuya at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 02:57:42 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 02:57:42 -0000 Subject: Perspectives in no-shipping....(long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9501r6+imn4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11015 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Ebony Elizabeth Thomas" wrote: > I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences are directly > related to the way we read the books in general. Everyone on list knows > that I'm loudly, obnoxiously, and unashamedly H/H. I think I basically > agree with Penny on almost every issue in the fandom except that I think > Lily and James married young, and I still think Harry's a nickname. > :::grins at the listmom and H/H captain::: Hmmm. I'd argue it has as much to do with personal views of romance as reading styles. Personally, I'd be especially wary of drawing generalizations among the no-shipping crowd, as we are a diverse, motley group. For example, I've shipped in other fandoms, but just haven't got that 'shipping feeling in HP. (Note that shipping debates are actually two part....1)Is the relationship canonical(intended by the author)? 2)Is the relationship good/bad/irritating? realistic? predictable/out-of-the blue? intriguing/boring/just-there? (how do you feel about it? Strong enough to write fanfiction about it?)? In HP, we're still mostly at the #1 stage with the relationship debate. To get me interested, Rowling will have to give me better, unambiguous relationship scenes. But I suspect I will end up being a "it's just there, and pretty good" kind of person. I agree with many of marvin's thoughts on the subject (about the "too young" and "too much projecting into the future" arguments). I have no problem with people shipping; in fact, it's rather interesting to read. I also suspect that JKR may not resolve the romance thing in the series itself, because there is so much else to resolve, and because of the focus on friendship. > > 1) I'm a SuperHarry advocate I too, think that JKR is leading in that way with the theory. I have no particular stake in believing it strongly to be so, but most of the canon appears to tilt in that direction. > 2) Although I dislike the Slytherins in canon, I believe that both Draco > and Snape are redeemable in both canon and fanon. If we believe Dumbledore (and Dumbledore hasn't been wrong about something important like this yet), Snape has *already* been redeemed. Draco isn't well-characterized for me yet to make a judgement whether he is redeemable or not. I do, however, suspect that JKR will do a "more than meets the eye" thing with Draco, because we've already had it with Snape, and that generational parallelism that she's set up would point in that direction. Ah well, color me Slytherin-fascinated. (Now how does *that* correlate with no-shipping, if at all?) > > 3) I identify strongly with Percy. I doubt very seriously that he will > become a Death Eater. Agreed there. I'm also a Percy sympathizer. Hey, whatever happened to Penelope Clearwater? > > 4) I think that there's more to Hermione than brains. We still don't > *completely* know from canon why the Sorting Hat put her into Gryffindor. Who said that there wasn't more to her than brains? She's shown enough courage and loyalty so far for me to have no problems with the hat's judgement. > > 5) Ron, at this point, *really* needs to be onstage for a significant > portion of Book 5 so that his character can be developed more. Agreed. I think the tensions between him and Harry in book four were very interesting. I'd like to see more of Ron struggling to form his own identity, a theme which has been there since book one when he looked into the mirror of Erised. Does Hermione have any similar problem? > > 6) I'm a small Hogwarts/wizarding world advocate. Unlike shipping, I don't > care to debate the issue that much. I'm of the opinion that the only thing the debate proved was that JKR herself doesn't pay very much attention to world size. I refuse to hold the lack of knowledge of statistical population analysis against her. :) The wizarding world seems to be a way for Rowling to vaguely comment about present day England. I mean, there are lots of things, when looked from a sociological or historical perspective, seem extremely inexplicable in the wizarding world, so I prefer not to debate those. > > 7) I have always thought the Wand Order issue was much ado about nothing. > Nice that it got our e-group the media recognition, though. I liked it. It gave us interesting insight into the publication world. > > 8) I love post-Hogwarts fanfics. I also like fanfics that attempt to > explain the scientific and cultural features of the magical world. While > shipping fluff and steamy romance fics are all well and good, my favorite > fics also deal with explaining important existential questions that JKR has > not dealt with thus far. I don't really like post-Hogwarts fanfics myself. So far I like parodies and ones that fill out the secondary characters; for me, I don't want to second-guess the end of the battle against Voldemort too much, at least yet. > > Those are my positions. I've noticed that H/Hers seem to agree with many of > the above. In contrast, a recent visit to a very nice R/H site run by > grownups (hi, Zsenya!) revealed that most posters stood on the opposite side > of most of the above. This is interesting, but I'm not sure (not flaming here, just looking for clarification) what these points have to do with the shipping debates... Slytherin reform seems to be entirely extraneous, as do small-world and wand-order. Post-Hogwarts fanfic, Superharry, and Percy-identification could possibly be related, but I'm not sure how. Ron needing character development and more-than-meets-the-eye Hermione (Transformers!) obviously do have relevance, but I would guess that people on both sides of the HH/RH debate could hold them. Charmian From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 03:02:54 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 03:02:54 -0000 Subject: Hungarian books + a quiz :) (was: Book prices) In-Reply-To: <94vs6i+ojse@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95024v+6e3o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11016 The quiz at the end is the part where Dumbledore tells Harry (?) that the first ever time he tried Bertie Botts' EVery Flavour Beans, he got a vomit flavoured one. Then he pops one into his mouth , chokes and says "Alas, earwax"! Isabelle --- In HPforGrownups at y..., fefe at f... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., rhodhry at y... wrote: > > What are nromal prices for the translated versions of the Harry > > Potter-books? The Norwegian edition of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" > > (GoF bot being translated to Norwegian yet) goes for USD30/GBP20 > per > > copy - How does this compare to other countries? > > Prices of Hungarian books (only hardcover): > > PS - $5 > CoS - $5 > PoA - $6 > GoF - $9 > > Don't laugh, they ARE expensive for us, especially GoF :) (OT) But > it's still cheaper than 3 gallons of gasoline, and much more fun than > driving 90-100 miles :) Excuse me for constantly whining about > European gasoline prices, but my another obsession is cars and > driving... > Back to topic: i like these books, the translations of funny names > are funny too, and the text is translated correctly. The only problem > is that they were edited and printed in a hurry, so they contain > punctuation errors (the most annoying type of errors, i think) and > things like that. I hope that they will be corrected in later > editions. > > bye > Fefe > > "Ah! Bogoly Berti f?le Minden?z? drazs?! Ifj?koromban > az a > szerencs?tlens?g ?rt, hogy kifogtam egy hm... > h?ny?s?z? darabot. > Az?ta, sajna, nem sok kedvem van k?s?rletezni vele - de > ett?l a finom > tejkaramell?t?l nem kell f?lnem, igaz-e? > Dumbledore mosolygott, ?s bekapta az egyik aranybarna drazs?t. > Nyomban k?h?gni kezdett t?le. > - Mordizomadta! F?lviasz!" (Harry Potter ?s a b?lcsek > k?ve, 17. fejezet) > > OK, this is a quiz :) who can tell me which part is the above one ? :) From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 03:59:42 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:59:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: In defense of Ginny and such Message-ID: <20010128035942.92910.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11017 I Wrote: >and one for the H/H-ers- >"We Can Dream, Can't We?" And a general shout out to >the H/H crowd (just to keep things lively, of course) >-"It's not everyday you see a boat with multiple poop >decks!" And Captian Kathy replied: >Oh, yeah, *definitely* our new Marketing Director! :) Aye, aye, Captian! I'd be honored to be our Marketing Director! And for the love of SPEW, let's help our pals H/G with their between the lines SOS call! Furthermore, where *is* the good ship D/G? I know, I'm being a traitor, but I have a soft spot for Draco. Do you all notice there simply is no V/H ship? (that's Vicktor). Strange. Oh, and here's my latest rant about my HP alter ego, Ginny: Ahem. I whole-heartedly agree that JK Rowling, hallow'd be thy name, would not make our Ginny be a 'plot device' for nothing. If you'll remember, Tom Riddle said to Harry that not only did he suck the life force out of her, he poured some of himself into her, too-that's how he made her strangle the roosters and paint, etc. Do we all remember that the reason Harry is a Parslemouth is because Voldemort passed some of his powers on to him via the Avada Kedavra? I don't give a good God damn if Harry saved her, Ginny lived when Voldemort had it in for her-she survived when left for dead. Does it not stand to reason that Tommy passed some of himself into Ginny? What exactly was the point of CoS, if not to give us the situation for there to be someone who has been through similar things as Harry? What, so we could see Malfoy be a royal prick and buy his way on the Quiddich team? To say 'hi' to Riddle again? To learn the finer points and dangers of journal writing? Come on, folks! Even if she had few lines, the book was about a series of events that altered her life. Thank you, thank you! Ginny Love --------------------------------------------------- "R/H: It Just Makes Sense" "H/G: We're Happy, We're Sappy, We're Ginny/Harry!" (or something like that) --------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com Sun Jan 28 04:09:50 2001 From: MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com (MinnesotaGirlie7 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:09:50 -0000 Subject: Do Animagi choose their forms? and the change over to yahoo groups In-Reply-To: <3A7239EE.FA3F842A@texas.net> Message-ID: <95062e+dlkl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11018 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Well, I got that impression from JKR saying that if she were an animagus, she > hoped she'd be an otter, because she likes otters. The implication was strong > that no choice is involved. It sounds like your animal is sort of a reflection > or distillation of your personality. As I recall, she said this at some e-chat, > when someone asked her about what she'd be. Also... I read somewhere (it was some etymology place... possibly the Encyclopaedia Potterica or the Harry Potter Lexicon... I can't remember! Aargh!) that not only could Animagus be interpreted as "animal-wizard", but also as "soul of a wizard", which I found to be interesting. So... it could be that no choice is involved, but the animal chosen isn't _completely_ random. Which begs the question -- why a stag for James? And what animal would Draco be -- did the spell that Moody/Crouch put on him reflect that he might end up being an albino ferret Animagus? (On Prof. McGonagall --) > She seems tremendously cat-like to me! Hmm. Yeah -- very clean, very neat, hunter-type. McGonagall all over. Besides... you couldn't very well have her be a dog -- dogs don't peer sternly at people very well (from experience)... whereas a cat... Minnesota Girlie ______________________________________________ Favorite Character: Charlie "Dragon-Chaser" Weasley "Ron/Hermione. It just makes more sense." _________________________________ From ebonyink at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 04:34:47 2001 From: ebonyink at hotmail.com (ebonyink at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:34:47 -0000 Subject: If you thought "Trouble in Paradise" was bad... Message-ID: <9507h7+9oa9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11019 ...Pippin's come up with a spoof of my science project that's even worse! I laughed so hard while reading it the first time that most of the glass of water I was drinking ended up on my pants and the computer keyboard. Here's the link: *Stranger Than Paradise* by Amanita LeStrange (Pippin's ff.net mask) http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic/?action=story-read&storyid=192522 And here everyone was thinking *I* had issues. :-) Thanks again, Pippin... you know how much I needed cheering up this weekend, and I appreciated it more than you know. Laughter is the best medicine. --Ebony AKA AngieJ From mschub at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 04:53:42 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (mschub at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 04:53:42 -0000 Subject: Do Animagi choose their forms? In-Reply-To: <95062e+dlkl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9508km+htel@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11020 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., MinnesotaGirlie7 at a... wrote: > Also... I read somewhere (it was some etymology place... possibly the > Encyclopaedia Potterica or the Harry Potter Lexicon... I can't > remember! Aargh!) that not only could Animagus be interpreted as > "animal-wizard", but also as "soul of a wizard", which I found to be > interesting. So... it could be that no choice is involved, but the > animal chosen isn't _completely_ random. I've always subscribed to this theory. Like the daemons in Pullman's HDM series, the animal form is an expression of the personality of the person. Padfoot - loyal, strong, kind. Prongs - strong, tough, responsible (Don't ask me why, but the image of the stag makes me think strength of character and responsibility. It's like the scene in Bambi where we see Bambi's father, and he just EXUDES strength of character.). Here's an interesting question, though. Is there a difference between transfiguring a human into an animal and becoming an animagus? I would think there is based on the clues we have, but darned if I can figure out what that difference is. For instance, in GoF, Krum "transfigures himself" (partly) into a shark. Is this different from teaching himself to be an animagus? I mean, I got the impression that becoming an animagus was something that was like, really high-tech wizardry, and Krum manages to (partly) do it to himself on a bare minimum of 2 and half months notice (assuming he figured out the clue right away). And earlier, Hermione mentions that they "don't even get to human transfiguration until 6th or 7th year." If they're teaching it 6th or 7th year, why are there only 13 (or was it 11) registered animagi? I mean, we can assume that there would be more that who are unregistered, but still. It's expressed as a very rare trait, and they teach it in 6th and 7th year? Now granted, we can assume that Krum, as the Durmstrang champion, was no magical slouch, and that he had the help of Karkaroff, but it just seems a little wonky. -Mike From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 05:22:03 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:22:03 -0000 Subject: Testing the Friendship/Question re: H/G In-Reply-To: <94vq9f+sagd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <950a9r+tl7s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11021 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Ebony AKA AngieJ" wrote: > It's one thing to have the Friendship endure forever as a harmonious > entity, without any emotional or psychological tests. > > It's quite another to have the Friendship endure forever after having > been tested to its very limits. Think of what a statement *that* > would be--to have played together, laughed together, dreamed > together, fought together, grown up together, adventured together, > and then to come to the realization that it's all right if everything > is not absolutely perfect... to realize that you have someone by your > side who is not only your strong right arm, but knows your mind and > your heart... > > Wow. > > If *that's* the statement JKR is making in her theme of friendship > (which is indeed one of her major themes!), I'll be in full awe of > her. > I went ahead and snipped the rest of it, where there were some great things too, because this part was so nice. Yet again we agree, Ebony! There's nothing better than to see that it *is* possible to have strong, healthy friendships that endure and don't become something ugly that only remains out of habit. I hope you realize that even at my cheesiest and most sappy I never would advocate happy ever after starting now, with 3 books full of love-fests and agreements. Heck, I'd never want that for them. When I read the fight in GoF I thought 'finally! now maybe they can get past some of this pent-up stuff!' A fight between Harry and Ron was necessary and helpful to their growth, as well as inevitable, by that point. And I also agree with your theory that in some respects the boys wish they had each other's lives. It's one of the things that ties them together, and it's one of the things that could tear them apart. There's so much that has to happen (and will have to continue to happen) for any of them to be even remotely happy ever after. Just like with all people everywhere. I wouldn't dare try to circumvent that. But wouldn't it be lovely after all is said and done (and maybe there's been 10 or 15 wizard years of healing and growing), to see them at that big Weasley table at the Burrow arguing over who pulled the best pranks and who really was fooled by Lockhart back when they were kids? I think it would make a lovely epilogue myself, whether any of them are romantically involved or not. Conflict is a part of life, and a very important part of fiction. And it does a great job of allowing us to appreciate those rare moments of peace, joy, contentment, etc. that, in real life anyway, constitute happy ever after. kimberly From drmm at fuuko.com Sun Jan 28 05:28:20 2001 From: drmm at fuuko.com (drmm at fuuko.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:28:20 -0000 Subject: Misc comments (Shipping and Ron/Sirius parallels) Message-ID: <950alk+6j1b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11022 Having just gotten back from my first post-college job interview (teaching English in Japan), I've decided to make a few minor comments . . . Um, due to the recent creation of the H/G ship, I've decided to create a clone and split it between that ship and the Snape/Lily ship I'm creating (both of those ships are IMO far more unlikely than R/H so they only get my single clone. . . ). About the whole "One Big Happy Family" issue. . . I honestly think by the time we get to the end of the books, a cheesy happy ending will be a huge relief after all the death and mayam . . . . And, while cliche isn't exactly my favorite thing, I have no objection to it if it's done well, which JKR *would*. I only object to bad cliche. So, here's a possible H/G ship slogan: "One Big Happy Family isn't such a bad thing." On a completely unrelated note (well, maybe slightly R/H related as it's a semi-defense of Ron, but not really), I've decided to come up with a bunch of parallels between Ron & Sirius to confuse the Ron-dislikers but Sirius-likers . . . 1. They both have tempers. We've seen *tons* of times that Ron has gotten upset, and Sirius' actions in the Shrieking Shack don't show a whole lot of calmness of mind IMO. A person with a calmer temperment (and I don't understand why Lupin went along with Sirius) would have realized that taking Peter to the authorities would be a better action than killing him . . . 2. Fiercely loyal to their friends. Ron *always* loses his temper when his friends are insulted (Malfoy calling Hermione a mudblood, etc.) and when they're in danger (trying to get Harry to leave in PoA when they think he's a killer, sacrificing himself in the chess game so that Harry & Hermione can continue). Sirius is willing to risk his life to save Lily & James and is willing to kill the person who betrayed them (although I don't think that's terribly wise or thoughtful of him). 3. They both do really *really* stupid things. No matter what people say about how Sirius was only 16 (or was it ever stated how old he was then?) when he pulled the werewolf stunt with Snape, I think that it shows *far* more immaturity than anything Ron has done. Stopping speaking to a friend for a stupid reason isn't on par with causing a possible death and who knows what dire consequences to a *friend*. I don't need to comment on Ron's stupidity because we've already seen it ;) Sirius probably wasn't thinking clearly when he did it, but nor do I think Ron has been thinking clearly when he's gotten into the silly fights with his friends (although really, I don't think the Crookshanks incident was entirely his fault & Harry showed just as much immaturity in the Firebolt incident as Ron did). Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Sirius (although really, since Snape is my favorite character, I don't quite understand that werewolf incident). I just think if people give him a break for doing stupid things in his youth, they should pass it on to Ron too. And I still think that the fight in GoF will (and probably has) helped Ron mature and realize that *some* things are more important than pride. Errr, that's all I can think of at the moment. If I think of more (and if people find this interesting) I'll try and post them. DrMM (who's been most opinionated on-list lately, and who would like to announce how much she despises yahoo (the whole "you must list your birthday and zip code" really ticks her off which is why all that info is totally untrue -- and who is most distressed to find out that her server is down or has crashed and her e-mail account won't be working for a bit. . . ) From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Sun Jan 28 06:17:01 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:17:01 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Female Archetypes In-Reply-To: <3A732A4B.758484BF@swbell.net> References: <94t7o0+oj26@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010127110440.02e9f2a0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010127221106.02fd7f00@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11023 At 02:06 PM 1/27/01 -0600, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >It's a *big* generalization Dave. Where does Hermione fit into your >equation? Minerva McGonagall? What about Molly Weasley? Molly is >hardly a shy wallflower type after all. >But, she's not shallow & vapid either. Yeah -- Well, I knew I risked incensing a lot of women with the above. I recognize there are many women -- my mother for one (who is definitely Mrs. Weasley) -- who don't fit my pigeonholes. On reflection, my own disappointment with the dating scene is coming out here too much. And if anyone here knows a single woman like Hermione, please send me her phone number! :) -- Dave From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 06:19:28 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:19:28 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ginny and such In-Reply-To: <20010128035942.92910.qmail@web11702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <950dlg+c9tc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11024 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Ginny Love wrote: > Oh, and here's my latest > rant about my HP alter ego, Ginny: > > Ahem. I whole-heartedly agree that JK Rowling, > hallow'd be thy name, would not make our Ginny be a > 'plot device' for nothing. Thank you, GinnyLove - a little backup is always nice :D! If you'll remember, Tom > Riddle said to Harry that not only did he suck the > life force out of her, he poured some of himself into > her, too-that's how he made her strangle the roosters > and paint, etc. Exactly - she's got at the very least some insight into the child he once was. Would be so cool if, in a moment of Evil Voldy weakness, she was able to remind him of some of his youthful vulnerabilities - remind him that he's human? Do we all remember that the reason > Harry is a Parslemouth is because Voldemort passed > some of his powers on to him via the Avada Kedavra? I > don't give a good God damn if Harry saved her, Ginny > lived when Voldemort had it in for her-she survived > when left for dead. Does it not stand to reason that > Tommy passed some of himself into Ginny? I don't know that she got any powers from him the way Harry did, but I think she's got a link of some sort that they can use to their advantage against him. Maybe even just something he shared with her to gain her confidence will end up being useful somehow. What exactly > was the point of CoS, if not to give us the situation > for there to be someone who has been through similar > things as Harry? What, so we could see Malfoy be a > royal prick and buy his way on the Quiddich team? To > say 'hi' to Riddle again? To learn the finer points > and dangers of journal writing? Come on, folks! Even > if she had few lines, the book was about a series of > events that altered her life. GinnyLove, I salute you! In fact, I'm gonna give you my H/G sailor's scarf, as a sign of my gratitude for your support! Kimberly H/G - happy sappy sailors! (that's my shorter version) > > Ginny Love > --------------------------------------------------- > "R/H: It Just Makes Sense" > "H/G: We're Happy, We're Sappy, We're Ginny/Harry!" > (or something like that) > --------------------------------------------------- From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Jan 28 06:26:08 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 06:26:08 -0000 Subject: FITD?! (Was Re: The Ship Hits the Fan) In-Reply-To: <94qv79+481o@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <950e20+54cn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11025 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Minnesota Girlie" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, SKTHOMPSON_1 at m... wrote: > > DISCLAIMER: I can see the merits and plausibility of FITD. > > Okay... I know FITD stands for "Farmer in the Dell," which seems to > be > a favorite H/H theory. Can someone point me to the post(s) explaining > this theory? Thanks so much. > > Minnesota Girlie Hi Minnesota Girlie, sorry you haven't gotten a reply yet. (I'm painfully behind on posts.) If you haven't already tried searching 'FITD' that might be one way to go. Basically, it's just the theory that 'Ron likes Hermione, Hermione likes Harry, Harry hasn't shown any romantic inclinations towards anyone, besides the crush on Cho'... I don't believe there's anything further to it, beyond this. I admit the possibility of this, but I'm hoping Hermione will realize that Ron is the guy for her, someday. I also admit that we don't know yet how Hermione feels about anyone. So...yeah. relaxed and groovy, Kelley From rina at love-productions.com Sun Jan 28 06:53:04 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:53:04 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] R/H ship/Sims Message-ID: <007301c088f6$fcb7a500$a2448cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11026 Amy G wrote: <> I think at least book 2 - he gets kinda jealous about her "feelings" for Lockhart. <> Yes! It is SO Harry. But there are no redheads, which makes my Ron not very Ron-ish. Game's damned addictive, though. LOL Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From duo at dangerous-minds.com Sun Jan 28 07:08:01 2001 From: duo at dangerous-minds.com (Nathan) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:08:01 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys In-Reply-To: <3A7354E7.6983C703@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11027 Penny wrote: >I don't know why this just hit me, but I'm wondering if the very fact >that Harry got placed with the Dursleys and must return to the Dursleys >each summer is even more solid proof that they are indeed his only >living blood relatives (in other words, Hermione is not his sister or >his second cousin, and the Weasleys are not suddenly going to be related >to him either). It sounds as though the "ancient magic" that Dumbledore >invoked for Harry's protection required that he be with blood >relatives. It would make sense that they must be the *only* choice to >fulfill this requirement, or Dumbledore wouldn't have placed him with >such a hideous family (or continue to insist that he return there). Rememebr that Dumbledore had a pragmatic reason as well for leaving Harry with the Dursleys when McGonagall was attempting to dissuade him from it. It was to prevent him from feeling to self-important too early in his life. It seems to have worked, although I personally have my doubts on whether life with the Dursleys, slapstickally comical as it may be, is worth it at all. Nathan PS Marvin!(glurbleburble) Lemme in!(bubblewurble) Gillyweed doesn't last forever, ya know. :) From rina at love-productions.com Sun Jan 28 07:20:31 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:20:31 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OBHWF/Plot Devices Message-ID: <00b801c088fa$d2559700$a2448cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11028 Ebony wrote: <> Okay, I don't know HOW, but this little bit inspired me to write a scene for a fic. LOL Lovely little angsty, dramatic action scene followed by Harry saying, "I knew you two liked each other!" I think Ron snaps back, "Why the hell didn't you tell ME that?" And it definitely raised stakes. LOL <> Well, yes, H/H would raise the stakes. But in it's own way, so would H/R. I'm not sure if it's so much H/Rs are disquieted by change, so much as they have interpreted scenes and lines in a way that leads them to H/R. Plus, this is JKR. I don't think she's going to go the easy route on any story or direction this may take. No matter who Hermione ends up with - Harry, Ron, random guy, or no one - it's almost guaranteed it will be some big plot thing. She doesn't really do something for absolutely no reason, and I don't think this would be different. <> Yeah, exactly. LOL Someone pointed out that there's been big friendship fights/separations in each book. This would make a good one, too. <<(It's funny that H/H and R/H are so diametrically opposed that both ships would rather see Ron and Harry slashed than for the other ship to prevail! What?)>> Not this R/Her. I mean, sure, I like Harry/Ron, but I also like Harry/Hermione. I see exactly where you're coming from with all of your points, and they make sense. It's just that when I look at all the characters, I see Ron and Hermione complimenting each other the most. He makes her lighten up, she makes him be more serious. Anyone who watches Remember WENN knows that bickering can be a very powerful aphrodisiac (sp?). And making up is always fun. LOL That's just me, YMMV. I think I've said this before, but for me, if H/H ends up canon, I'll smile and go, "Cool!" And then I'll hie myself to a computer and either write a R/H ending or find someone else's. And then I'll find a Ron/Harry just for the hell of it. Hey, Captain Kathy, can I be amabassador for the good ship R/H? LOL I don't think there's a pairing I wouldn't go for. But, PLEASE don't take that seriously. I don't want to find myself visiting something like Dumbledore/Ginny, okay? LOL Rina trying to find a backstory for the snippet Ebony inspired ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 07:46:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 07:46:36 -0000 Subject: Female Archetypes In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010127221106.02fd7f00@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <950ios+6glp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11029 Dave said, roses in hand: > And if anyone here knows a single woman like Hermione, please send > me her phone number! :) > Well, shoot. Where were you 15 years ago? Amy "Hermione minus the courage" Z (happily married, thanks) From monika at darwin.inka.de Sun Jan 28 08:43:07 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:43:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Post-Hogwarts PTSD In-Reply-To: <3A71F244.898D66B8@swbell.net> References: <94snr0+40pu@eGroups.com> <3A71F244.898D66B8@swbell.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11030 On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 15:55:16 -0600, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote: > >> After all, most people who have fought in wars do not get PTSD. > >I could be wrong, but I think that might be a bit of a generalization. I >think I've read something somewhere that a majority of Vietnam vets >suffered some degree of PTSD at some point in their lives. Penny, you are absolutely right about this. I have done quite a bit of research about PTSD since last summer and it is a common condition in people who have suffered one or more traumata. The following paragraph is a citation from a fact sheet of the National Center for PTSD at Dartmouth which can be found at http://www.ncptsd.org : "About 30 percent of the men and women who have spent time in war zones experience PTSD. An additional 20 to 25 percent have had partial PTSD at some point in their lives. Thus more than half of all male Vietnam veterans and almost half of all female Vietnam veterans have experienced "clinically serious stress reaction symptoms." PTSD has also been detected among veterans of the Gulf War, with some estimates running as high as 8 percent." >> My point in all this is that Harry probably will not suffer from PTSD. >> I doubt that he will ever go through a more horrible experience than >> the graveyard scene. And according to the canon he has >> emotionally survived this. You can develop PTSD years and years after the original trauma. The official diagnostic criteria include a specification whether the disorder is - acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months (if the symptoms last only up to one month, it is not PTSD but ASD, Acute Stress Disorder); - chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more; or - with Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the stressor. Note the "at least" in the third criterion. You may very well develop PTSD ten, twenty or thirty years after suffering the trauma, that's a fact. The above diagnostic criteria were taken from DSM-IV - American Psychiatric Association (1994), Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition. Washington, D.C. >If the books are only going to get darker (per JKR), how do you figure >that Harry has already lived through the worst of it? I personally >didn't think he'd have faced what he did in GoF (I was shocked that >Voldemort was back in full-force in the *4th* book -- didn't expect it >until the 6th or even 7th book myself). But, he *is* back, and I don't >think the coming "War" is going to be a cakewalk for anyone involved. I >don't think poor Harry has gone through the worst of it by any means. I don't think so either. And the more often you are traumatized, the more likely you are to develop PTSD at some point in your life. This is why I think it is nearly impossible that Sirius does *not* have it. Even if you don't believe that Pettigrew's betrayal and the death of Harry's parents wasn't enough to traumatize him (and I think it was enough), it is absolutely impossible to spend twelve years in a place like Azkaban and get away without being traumatized. I have seen reports of ongoing studies about political prisoners of former Eastern Germany who had been jailed without ever committing a crime, they go on to develop PTSD, and they haven't necessarily been tortured. I don't want to go into details about what happens to survivors of concentration camps. You may tell me that Azkaban isn't exactly a concentration camp, but I can see a lot of parallels here. And if you know the symptoms of PTSD, it isn't really difficult to put a label on each and every behavior Sirius has shown in PoA. >> We should remember, however, that generally speaking people are tough >> and can survive very difficult times without breaking up emotionally >> (which is what I think PTSD is basically). > >I'm sure Carole or Monika or someone else more knowledgeable about PTSD >can speak to this more than I can .... but my personal take is that >you're viewing PTSD as some sort of personal weakness that could be >overcome with enough strength of character. I don't think this is >necessarily true, but I admittedly am not too knowledgeable about this >topic. You are right another time here, Penny. PTSD has *nothing* to do with personal weakness, it's a biological reaction to a major stressor that got stuck at some point. (Just a note, English is not my first language, so please bear with me, I try to explain it as best as I can.) I have also been very interested in evolutionary theory for the last ten years, and when I began my research about PTSD, I thought I would enter an entirely different field (psychology), but in fact it overlaps a lot. PTSD has it's roots in an old biological defense mechanism that all mammals have built in, the so-called fight and flight mechanism which dates back to our ancestors in the savannah. This defense mechanism is the response of our nervous system to a major stressor, it's a survival reflex. When an individual faces a traumatic threat, the Limbic system is activated and releases hormones that prepare the body for defensive action. This activates the Sympathetic branch, a part of the Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) that will prepare the body for fight or flight. The ANS includes another branch, the Parasympathetic (PNS) branch. Normally only one of these branches is activated, but during a prolonged threat (such as torture, rape or being kept prisoner in a camp) the Limbic system also activates the PNS which can result in a state of freezing. If this happens, time will slow down for the victim of the trauma, and he/she will feel no fear nor pain. During this time, memories are stored differently than they are normally, that is in a different part of the brain where they cannot be recalled consciously. These responses of the ANS are *instinctive*, reflex actions. That's a very healthy survival mechanism. When the ANS continues to be chronically aroused, even though the threat has passed, it is PTSD. This happens when the victim has no time to "calm down" and resolve the trauma, i.e. because the next trauma already knocks on the door (i.e. in repeatedly sexually abused children). To be on topic I'd say that this is what happened to Sirius. My take is that he was suffering from Acute Stress Disorder when he went after Pettigrew, that is why it was so easy to defeat him. And instead of getting help and support, he was sent to Azkaban straight away - not exactly the right place to resolve his trauma - where he was chronically retraumatized over twelve years. He also developed a major depression, which ironically saved him from the dementors (as specified by JKR herself, dementors cause clinical depression). This has gotten longer than I had intended, but I hope I have cleared a few things up with this post. Another very good resource about PTSD are David Baldwin's Trauma Information Pages: http://www.trauma-pages.com And if anyone is interested in peer reviewed articles, try Traumatology: http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/ Monika Huebner -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html Current book: William H. Calvin: The Ascent of Mind From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Jan 28 08:49:50 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:49:50 -0000 Subject: Party on the Good Ship R/H In-Reply-To: <200101260632.f0Q6WvC28725@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <950mfe+vaim@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11031 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > The R/Hers are out in force! I could sing! Welcome aboard one and all! Heehee, I feel like a Who on a Dust Speck: We are here! We are here! > Rina wrote: > >Hermione's constantly pestering them both, but even more with Ron. > - all those years it came across like she didn't like him much, but >she was actually just pushing him because she loved him and knew he could do better than what he was. There's Hermione's reason for the bickering. > >Kathy wrote: > I think this is a brilliant insight. Hermione doesn't let Ron get away with laziness or lazy thinking. Like when she calls him on his comments about Percy or about encouraging Harry to sneak into Hogsemead in PoA. She's disappointed at things like that because she expects better from him--and knows he can do better. And that, IMO, is just what Ron needs. Hermione may very well be the one person who *doesn't* think of Ron as somehow less than Harry (and she's probably the one who is best capable of making that judgment too). One day Ron will wake up and realize this. Fantastic point. I hadn't even considered this. She sees his potential and wants to help guide him to it? > Rina again: > >I guess they're just fun. LOL This sounds totally psycho, but I see H/R/H kind of like a triangle - Harry at the tip and Ron and Hermione making the base. R/H kind of connect together, and this supports both Harry and their three way friendship. > >Kathy wrote: > I like this analogy. And I agree that R/H is just more fun. (I know that's not a well-articulated argument, but it's how I feel!) But then this could be because I'm finding Harry kinds boring lately, as I said earlier... Agree again on both counts. I had always thought of Ron and Herm as a balance for Harry, but the triangle analogy is spot on. And I feel exactly the same Kathy, R/H has much more 'fun'-potential than H/H to me. I know, H/H-ers, I know, that doesn't counter 'H/H are more suited in the real world' etc., but come on, be honest: doesn't H/H just seem a tad dull? >Kathy wrote: (menage a trois) > I love this! Actually, I can see Ron/Harry as more plausible than H/H for a lot of reasons, which I won't go into now. Oh, come on, go into them. I'd love to hear it. > Amy Z: > >So what's a shipper? Someone who wants to see a particular pair together (sense A)? Someone who thinks two people *are* a couple in canon or will be (sense b)? Someone who has a crush on a character and therefore desperately wishes to see him/her in a romance to flesh out his/her own fantasies (sense C)? > >Kathy wrote: > It strikes me that those of us who spend precious hours of our lives going back and forth over the issues probably fall more into the A and C categories. (After all, both major ships have admitted that we will continue to prefer our ships regardless of what JKR writes. But, OTOH, both ships derive their positions from canon, so who knows? I have to say, I was a shipper in the 'b sense', originally. I saw R/H from canon, before I ever even found this group. When I first learned of the H/H-ers, and how so many of them felt this way from canon (before seeing PoU), I could not figure out where they got it from. Their arguments about Herm's feelings for Harry are somewhat plausible, but to me, it's still a big stretch. At least evidence for R/H is much more apparent, if not from Herm's end yet. And, just to add, I'm a shipper in the 'a sense' now, too. > Andrea wrote: > >If I were to guess who might be in Harry's future I would say Ginny Weasley. Harry's overall arc is concerned with the loss of his family. The Weasleys, for all intents and purposes, have been his surrogate family and Ginny will not be a star-struck schoolgirl forever. Jo might surprise me, but I think that may be where she is headed. We'll see. I'd like to see the Weasleys as Harry's actual family someday, and if the Good Ship H/R comes in as we expect, Hermione will make Harry a wonderful sister in law! > >Kathy wrote: > I also really like this reasoning. I would really like to see Harry officially become part of the Weasley family (which of course involves Ginny becoming more developed,etc--usual disclaimers apply). Oh, I can just hear Ebony gagging in the background at the mention of One Big Happy Weasley Family! But, whether it's realistic or not, I like the idea. > (Hey, now I know how HH-ers feel!) (just kidding! just kidding!) Bahahaha! Love that last line, Kathy. And, I too, gagged the H/H- ers with this subject not too long ago. (Probably a thousand posts ago by now, if not more.) I'll say again, this is really where I expect JKR to take this. Whether the ships are explicitly spelled out or not, I think JKR will go this route for the end of the series. I had the theory that Harry would end up with Ginny when she was the surprise 'whodoneit' character in CoS, mainly because she is a red-head like Lily, she has "The Crush", Harry will be part of a real family finally, etc. Ron and Herm would be icing on the cake. It would definitely knock me for a loop if JKR doesn't have Harry, Hermione, or both becoming part of the Weasley clan. > Kelley wrote: > >Here I am, Captain. Sorry, I was cha-chaing on the Lido deck with Gopher. > >Kathy wrote: > My husband is now looking at me strangely because I went into an > uncontrollable fit of giggling upon readin this. I think because it inspired visions of the Mad-Eye-Moody-dancing-with-a-male- Professor-Sinistra scenario that was posted here a while back. Haha, glad you liked it. Moody/Sinistra always reminds me of Neil's great line: Can you do the two-step with one leg? >Kathy wrote: > Anyway, welcome aboard, Yeoman Kelley! > Lunch will be served on the Promenade deck in 1 hour. Yay, I'm just in time for lunch. > Kelley again: > >I've dabbled a bit, myself, though now I'll start a rigorous training program. 100% No Fear... > >Kathy wrote: > Maybe we should start a rigorous calisthenics programs to get all our recruits in shape? Top Deck 06:00. Yeah, I can manage that. Online exercise is something I can really get behind. > Kelley again: > >Sadly, H/H-ers won't change due to my beliefs. You just have to let them go on, then when they WANT help, we offer comfort and solace and gentle deprogramming. > >Kathy: > ...more uncontrollable giggling... Suppose we'll have to start our own clinic. Or maybe a home for wayward shippers. All very peaceful and relaxing. Scented candles, lots of nice, big pillows, soft music, five bloody marys, and two hello dollys... (side joke--never mind) > Kelley: > >Not to mention the ghost up in the crow's nest, and gnomes scampering about underdeck... > >Kathy: > LOL! I knew someone more creative than I would get this metaphor going! Ha, no, I just love the idea of a Weasley-themed "Ship". >:o} We'll also have a few picnic tables up on deck for smashing together... > Kelley: > >There's always room for one more when you're with the Weasleys. (And who doesn't want to party with them?) > >Kathy: > Mmmmmm, Weasleys.....oh, sorry, where was I? ;) Hear, hear! > DrMM wrote: > > DrMM (signing up for the position of ship's doctor on the R/H Cruise) > and First Mate Mo responded: > >Great. We will need a doctor when we are rescuing all those H/H survivors! > Kathy: > Perhaps we should also advertise for a ship's psychologist to help out with all that gentle deprogramming of H/H-ers? I'll volunteer. I've already stocked up on Professor Lupin's patented "Dementor-Away" brand chocolate. Works equally well on those chronic symptoms of H/H ship-dom. "Here. Eat it. It'll help..." (Said in my most Lupinesque voice.) > DrMM wrote: > > I suspect half the reason why I don't care for the H/H ship as much as I do is because I honestly felt the implication that Ron was, in some way, shape or form, unworthy of Hermione. It may have been unintentional, but I still got that implication (although not as much from you (Penny) as others). >And as I've never understood the problems that people have with Ron, when >he's a Perfectly Normal Boy (and IMO the most realistic of the three), I found that rather annoying. Hmm, I can't recall if I've gotten this feeling in regards to Ron as a mate for Herm from the H/H-ers, but I do remember some felt that Ron just doesn't seem as equal to the other two, in terms of wizarding strengths and abilities. I do think we haven't seen what he's capable of yet, but fully expect it in canon by the end of the series. Thinking about it, I do remember some saying that Herm would tire or get fed up with Ron. He's so sensitive already to being outshined by H & H, being with Herm, an outstanding witch, would just kill his self-esteem. Or, he may tire of her always being right, or the goody-goody bit, or what have you. I think he's as worthy of her as she is of he, and when he 'blossoms' magically, and matures (as he certainly will), this pairing will be even more viable. > Ebony wrote: > >Do you realize that we had absolutely no idea that we were stepping on toes when we implied this? So it was surprising to certain H/Hers when our posts about our ship were... well, let's just say not very well received at all. While that doesn't change my sentiment about Ron, I'll watch how I word my Ron-centered posts in the future. For what it's worth, Ebony, as long as I've been in this group, not one thing anyone has said has ever offended me, or hurt my feelings. Especially in the ship-debates. All in good fun. I take every post as being light-hearted, unless it's explicitly not so. (And I can't recall any like that.) I enjoy all this discussion, which is why I'm here, I suppose... :) >Kathy: > Seriously, I think it all goes back to something Ebony have gone over a bunch of times: R/H-ers and H/H-ers just tend to see the characters differently. As one R/H-er said to me recently, "Sometimes I wonder if they're even reading > the same books we are!" But it keeps things lively anyway! Ha! Yeah, when I first heard 'Harry and Hermione', I thought "What??" Didn't see it at all. (Still don't really...) > DrMM wrote: > >Plus, I still think Ron and Hermione are better suited. I really *should* write a comparison between Ron & Arthur and Hermione & Mrs. Weasley someday, because I see so many parallels between them, it's amazing. >Kathy: > I must chime in with Ebony and say please write this soon, cause I would also love to read your thoughts on this. (See, Ebony, something else we agree on! let's hear it for Intership cooperation!) Yes, DrMM, I would love to see this too. R/H can use all the strength it can get in the famous FAQ... >Cap'n Kathy: > All these new arrivals--this calls for a celebration! Butterbeers all around! Fantastic! I'll bring the treacle tarts! Yeoman Kelley, checking the compass, and seeing we're right on course... From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Sun Jan 28 09:15:12 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:15:12 -0000 Subject: Hate her(him)! In-Reply-To: <94r6df+ijcq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <950nv0+hh09@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11032 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Christy Kwak" wrote: > Aloha Kelley! Well, aloha to you too, Christy! > If RS is ever brought back (I hope not!)I hope that it's with > something wickedly creative.<<<<<<<< Yeah, I'm afraid she is supposed to be back. Unfortunately. She strikes me as an unredeemable character for some reason, can't put my finger on why... >Nah...I don't hate Voldy...can't hate a guy that is upfront with his big bad self! :) Kinda reminds me of me when I'm in a mood! Which is kinda surprising to me that he didn't show up near the middle or top of my character quiz! Draco is more annoy than anything else now...I like him a little better since Moody bounced that ferret like a little furry basketball! *grin* I LOVE that scene!<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ha, yeah, that ~was~ good. I'm still a big fan of when Hermione clocked him. She's so cool. I do like DD Draco... ;o> >I still really dislike those Dursleys. I guess because I like kids, and abuse (of all kinds) has been a special crusade of mine. I really hate to see them (real or not) treat Harry so poorly. > Maybe it's ignorance on their part or their part is to teach Harry > about the horrors of ignorance and humility in life. It's still > something that raises my ire at them.<<<<<<<<<<<<< Oh, absolutely no question their treatment of him is terrible. I suspect they'll either be redeemed, or get what's coming to them. >>Dobby and Winky? Yeah, Dobby was annoying in CoS, you are right that he was better in GoF. As for Winky, she can't help being subserviant. > She is annoyingly pitiful. I do think they would make a cute couple, though! Maybe something about that in the next chapter??? > <:o) > > christy<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< I think it was the stuff with Dobby punishing himself that got on my nerves; and, not telling Harry why he was in danger by returning to HW. Winky is too pitiful, that may be it. I was hoping we'd be seeing less house-elf stuff, then we get another one. And the Hermione-SPEW subplot was very uninteresting to me. Felt like a throw-away storyline for Herm., even though she does seem the sort of character to stand up against these types of injustices. A W/D ship is something I hadn't really thought of, but I have a strange feeling you're right, we will see this at some point... Kelley From jferer at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 09:26:18 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:26:18 -0000 Subject: OT: PTSD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <950ojq+mpd0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11033 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Monika Huebner wrote: "You can develop PTSD years and years after the original trauma. The official diagnostic criteria include a specification whether the disorder is - acute: if duration of symptoms is less than 3 months (if the symptoms last only up to one month, it is not PTSD but ASD, Acute Stress Disorder); - chronic: if duration of symptoms is 3 months or more; or - with Delayed Onset: if onset of symptoms is at least 6 months after the stressor." You forgot one of the diagnostic criteria: if your attorney tells you you have it. I know PTSD is real, but I've been soured on it. I handle lawsuits in my work (the risk management side of safety/risk management) and I've seen allegations of PTSD from people with a broken arm. It's God's gift to the plaintiff's bar. And the setting of diagnostic criteria is not just a sceintific, but an ideological and political act as well. The thing is, it makes things harder on *you*, looking to understand and help people who really have it. I don't know if Harry is going to have PTSD in the clinical, diagnostic sense; but he's going to be beat up pretty badly in this war, and he's going to suffer. A lot. From jferer at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 09:45:35 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:45:35 -0000 Subject: Testing the Friendship/Question re: H/G In-Reply-To: <94vq9f+sagd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <950pnv+p53e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11034 > Ebony said:" Again, I think the Friendship is going to be tested even further. > No, it doesn't have to necessarily be tested by romance. It could be > tested by any number of things." > I think so too. > Ebony:" The Harry/Ron and Ron/Hermione tension foreshadows things to come. We > talk often about the Ron-Hermione dynamic that may or may not be > developing. I've said this before, it was disagreed with, but I'll > say it again: the Friendship between the two boys is affected by the > fact that each one to some degree wants to be the other." > I don't know how I missed it, but I agree 100%. Ron doesn't want to be ordinary, a feeling he already has because of his brothers. He is tired of not having money. He's never done without the love of his family, so he doesn't know what he'd be missing if he didn't have it. Harry gets more and more tired of celebrity. He sees the Weasley family and envies Ron. He wishes he could lay his burden down, but at the end of GoF he realizes he can't. But I'm not sure that's going to crop up again in a major way in the future. Maybe they're past it. I think Ron is beginning to sense what Harry's going to go through. > Ebony: "Of the three bonds, we've seen potential areas of tension and conflict develop in two > of them. My idea is that the other bond (Harry-Hermione) isn't free of > conflict/tension either. Not if they're really best friends... I'm of the > opinion that they're as close as Harry/Ron and Ron/Hermione are. > I leave other HP4GUers to speculate possible sources of conflict here, > and will keep my opinions to myself. > H/H are not as close as Ron/Harry at first, but I see them growing closer and closer. She's maturing quickly, as girls are wont to do, and rapidly getting her "know-it-all" tendencies under control. A source of tension between her and Harry though, is that in the future she will again do something Harry doesn't want her to do because she fears for him (The Firebolt scenario again) He will be angry with her because she scared him. (Ask my daughters: Wanna get Dad angry? Get him scared.) > Ebony:"The necesssity of testing the H-R-H Friendship even occurred to > me > while writing ten years after Hogwarts. What if the Friendship is > *never* tested? What if things roll merrily along with nary an > insurmountable disagreement or serious conflict of interest? My > hypothesis is that eventually it would become a ticking time bomb, > affecting the others around them. Which is yet another reason why > I'm not contented with OBHWF. I don't see a fundamental conflict with OBHWF and testing of the friendship, but it does argue that OBHWF can't happen immediately after the end of the War. Harry's going to disappear for a while (Ebony and I are together on this) and he isn't going to be in any shape for romance with anybody. The conflicts have to be resolved before Ron or Harry can have peace. Hermione is going to come through it better than either one. > Ebony:"Upon first reading, I was bothered by the Harry-Ron and > Ron-Hermione > tension in GoF. A lot. My favorite aspect of the canon was the > Friendship by far, and I didn't want anything to change. But as I'm > reading and thinking and making predictions about where this is > going, I see that my previous position was a bit immature. I now > agree with some of the members who have pointed out that the Harry- > Ron post-Goblet falling-out was healthy and needed to occur. I also > am *very* interested in observing the developing Ron-Hermione tension > in future books..." They're doing some of the work they have to do if the friendship is to endure. Romance could be the source of further Ron/Hermione tension, but what if Ron or Hermione believes the other isn't doing enough for Harry? What if Hermione neglects a budding romance with Ron because she thinks Harry needs her? "Harry will be all right for one damned evening!" Ron snarled. "No he won't!!" Hermione answered hotly. "He needs both of us, the Death Eaters will be here any day!" "Then why don't you just stay with him!" There were tears in his eyes now. "He's got everything else!!" > Ebony: "We've contrasted the Ginnys of the world with the Chos. > However, > those of us who are Hermiones are neither Ginnys nor Chos. Where > does Hermione fit into that scenario? (Again, I'm beginning to think > the idea is to Keep Hermione Out Of The Lineup.) :-)" Is this anything like shipping Ginny off to Draco? It's easy to talk about Ginny and Cho, 'cuz they can be anybody we want them to be, we know them so little. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Jan 28 09:15:14 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:15:14 +1100 Subject: Wand Order (*that* old saw) Message-ID: <01C08971.E3491060.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 11035 Yesterday I visited a friend and wound up talking about HP - No I had a look at her _first edition_ GoF and it has the corrected wand order. (dumfounded surprise). I nearly fell of the sofa in shock. There was no errata and it was marked First aust ed (just like mine) on the front page. How wrong/sneaky is that? I had run home and check mine was the original order (yes it was) Fyi storm From monika at darwin.inka.de Sun Jan 28 10:42:11 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:42:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ron/Sirius parallels In-Reply-To: <950alk+6j1b@eGroups.com> References: <950alk+6j1b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3es77t0obs4v585mv5ttiaej8aruou737b@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11036 On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 05:28:20 -0000, drmm at fuuko.com wrote: >On a completely unrelated note (well, maybe slightly R/H related as >it's a semi-defense of Ron, but not really), I've decided to come up >with a bunch of parallels between Ron & Sirius to confuse the >Ron-dislikers but Sirius-likers . . . Not confused at all, but I see their characters in a completely different way. >1. They both have tempers. We've seen *tons* of times that Ron has >gotten upset, and Sirius' actions in the Shrieking Shack don't show a >whole lot of calmness of mind IMO. They both have tempers, that's right, but for entirely different reasons. Ron is overshadowed by his brothers and unsecure, but this has already been discussed a lot on this list, so I won't go on elaborating on it. Sirius' outbursts of anger and violence in PoA are something entirely different. He has severe psychological problems, and I am convinced he is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). I don't want to repeat myself, please read my post in the Post Hogwarts PTSD thread on this topic. > A person with a calmer temperment >(and I don't understand why Lupin went along with Sirius) would have >realized that taking Peter to the authorities would be a better >action than killing him . . . As I said above, the temperament Sirius shows in the Shrieking Shack is not a personality trait but a classic PTSD symptom. He is not himself at this time, didn't you ever ask yourself why he was so calm and analytical in GoF? > Sirius is willing to risk >his life to save Lily & James and is willing to kill the person who >betrayed them (although I don't think that's terribly wise or >thoughtful of him). No, it isn't. He overreacted to a traumatic event, and he wasn't able to think clearly or concentrate at that time. As I explained in my other post, this was a biological reaction to a traumatic threat, and when this happens to you, you aren't capable of being wise or thoughtful. >Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike Sirius (although really, since >Snape is my favorite character, I don't quite understand that werewolf >incident). I just think if people give him a break for doing stupid >things in his youth, they should pass it on to Ron too. Oh, I have never blamed Ron myself. I like him, and I think he still has all the time he needs to improve when he gets older. Monika (who just couldn't keep herself from defending Sirius and who is convinced that his behavior during PoA is *not* due to poor impulse control). -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html Current book: William H. Calvin: The Ascent of Mind From john at walton.to Sun Jan 28 10:47:15 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:47:15 +0000 Subject: Newsflash: HP trailer NOT to be shown at SuperBowl Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11037 This in from the BBC: Despite frantic speculation across the internet over the past week that American fans would have their first glimpse of scenes from the Harry Potter movie next Sunday. Newsround can exclusively state that the speculation isn't true. According to many websites, a 30 second Harry Potter trailer was due to be shown during TV coverage of America's biggest sporting event - the Superbowl. But production staff working on the Harry Potter movie confirmed to Newsround that a trailer is still weeks, if not months, off. And that one definitely won't be shown this weekend at the Superbowl. The production is still filming at Leavesden Studios just outside London. And a trailer is expected to surface some time after filming finishes in March The whole story can be found at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/newsroom/hpmovie2.shtml == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Jan 28 11:03:30 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:03:30 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagi vs transfigeration (was Re: Do Animagi choose their forms? Message-ID: <01C08976.318ACC60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 11038 Mike said: "Here's an interesting question, though. Is there a difference between transfiguring a human into an animal and becoming an animagus? I would think there is based on the clues we have, but darned if I can figure out what that difference is" WARNING I have no cannonical evidence for the following, I just *thunk* it Ok, I think there is a difference, I think it has to do with skill level and probably indicates different level of attributes while in non-human form I think that transfiguration is easier and can change anything to anything (porcupine to pin cushion, desk to pig for example, with the phonetically allied words appearing easier. You might change yourself as part of this spell, storm to dog, or cat, or Siamese fighting fish for example. animagus would appear to be a *true* expression of your self. (to me), akin to the 'true name' concept (as I understand it) in that you can only have one and you don't get to choose it. I think it's a more 'natural' transformation because its an expression of yourself, requiring less energy to maintain (though more skill to execute). You know how some people are just skilled in some things. Think about watching a child who is 'naturally' talented on the hockey field, or playing the violin or what ever and place a 'normally gifted' child next to them. With practice the second child might get really good but they will never have that 'natural' grace of the first child. The same person could be both, say a person who's 'natural' instrument is the violin (animagus) might not be so graceful with a horn or woodwind instrument (transfiguration). Also I think that someone who is transformed is a human (with human thinking) in an animal body. An animagus is a person who can access all the skills/attributes/unthinking abilities etc of the animal they are. Anyone who has any cannonical/non-cannonical comment about this - I'd be interested to hear about it. Storm (watching the 'last night of the proms' while I type - you'd never guess!) Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From pbnesbit at msn.com Sun Jan 28 13:48:17 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:48:17 -0000 Subject: Animagi vs transfigeration (was Re: Do Animagi choose their forms? In-Reply-To: <01C08976.318ACC60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <9517v1+dsin@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11039 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Mike said: > "Here's an interesting question, though. Is there a difference between > transfiguring a human into an animal and becoming an animagus? I would > think there is based on the clues we have, but darned if I can figure > out what that difference is" > > WARNING I have no cannonical evidence for the following, I just *thunk* it > > Ok, I think there is a difference, I think it has to do with skill level and > probably indicates different level of attributes while in non-human form > > I think that transfiguration is easier and can change anything to anything > (porcupine to pin cushion, desk to pig for example, with the phonetically > allied words appearing easier. You might change yourself as part of this spell, > storm to dog, or cat, or Siamese fighting fish for example. > > animagus would appear to be a *true* expression of your self. (to me), akin to > the 'true name' concept (as I understand it) in that you can only have one and > you don't get to choose it. I think it's a more 'natural' transformation > because its an expression of yourself, requiring less energy to maintain > (though more skill to execute). > > You know how some people are just skilled in some things. Think about watching > a child who is 'naturally' talented on the hockey field, or playing the violin > or what ever and place a 'normally gifted' child next to them. With practice > the second child might get really good but they will never have that 'natural' > grace of the first child. > > The same person could be both, say a person who's 'natural' instrument is the > violin (animagus) might not be so graceful with a horn or woodwind instrument > (transfiguration). > > Also I think that someone who is transformed is a human (with human thinking) > in an animal body. An animagus is a person who can access all the > skills/attributes/unthinking abilities etc of the animal they are. > > Anyone who has any cannonical/non-cannonical comment about this - I'd be > interested to hear about it. > > Storm (watching the 'last night of the proms' while I type - you'd never > guess!) Well put, Storm! In fact, Sirius tells Harry at some point the reason he survived Azkaban was that while he was a dog his emotions were less complex, more dog-like, thus the Dementors didn't affect him as much. His (human)mind was also strong enough (i.e. he *knew* he was innocent) that he just kept holding on to that thought. This is either in PoA or GoF, I can't remember right now. Parker > > From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 28 14:00:20 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:00:20 -0600 Subject: Shipping and Other HP4GU Debates (long as usual) References: Message-ID: <3A7425F4.D770E70C@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11040 Hi -- Ebony Elizabeth Thomas wrote: > I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences are directly related to the way we read the books in general. Everyone on list knows that I'm loudly, obnoxiously, and > unashamedly H/H. I think I basically agree with Penny on almost every issue in the fandom except that I think Lily and James married young, and I still think Harry's a nickname. > :::grins at the listmom and H/H captain::: Oh, I think James & Lily married "young," but my definition of "young" may be older than what others perceive. I think they married at maybe 19-21, but didn't have Harry right away. That's where I disagree with popular opinion most. I think they had these "secret careers" for awhile before a baby arrived. My guess is that Lily was 25-27 when she had Harry. We know Voldemort was in power for 10 yrs prior to Harry's birth ("we've had precious little to celebrate for 11 years"). I don't necessarily think he'd been in power the entire time that the Marauder generation was in Hogwarts. But, I do *not* think Harry's a nickname. (1) I too am a SuperHarry advocate; (2) I believe Draco and Snape are redeemable characters (and I think we're bound to see some decent Slytherins soon -- they're just ambitious after all); (3) I identify very strongly with Percy and think that he will not succumb to the Dark Side (though it will be a struggle for him); (4) obviously I agree that there's alot more to my favorite character (Hermione) than brains; (5) I agree with Eb's perceptions about Ron (he's made me increasingly uneasy and I agree that he needs to "get a grip"); (6) I believe JKR was *wrong* when she said there were 1000 students at Hogwarts -- -- internal evidence tilts more toward the 300 level in my mind; and (8) I love (and write) post-Hogwarts fanfics. > 7) I have always thought the Wand Order issue was much ado about nothing. > Nice that it got our e-group the media recognition, though. This is, I guess, our only point of disagreement. I've considered this to be an issue, and it still rankles with me that the revision doesn't read right (and that the publishers didn't bother to alert the media that they were making a fairly significant correction). > So there's a bit more to shipping than just drawing a queen and a king from a deck of cards. I'd say it reveals a lot about our personalities. I think so too, and I think there are lots of other differences in canonical interpretation among the various "shipper" groups (including the 'no-shippers' even perhaps). Charmain asked: > This is interesting, but I'm not sure (not flaming here, just looking > for clarification) what these points have to do with the shipping > debates... Slytherin reform seems to be entirely extraneous, as do > small-world and wand-order. Post-Hogwarts fanfic, Superharry, and > Percy-identification could possibly be related, but I'm not sure how. > Ron needing character development and more-than-meets-the-eye > Hermione (Transformers!) obviously do have relevance, but I would > guess that people on both sides of the HH/RH debate could hold them. > Ebony was making the point that our "shipping" positions (or non-positions as the case may be) may very well affect how we view other aspects of the HP series. She used the 8 above as examples of positions taken by H/H types, noting that the R/H types on the whole seem to take the opposite approach with respect to her 8 examples. Her thesis is that our personalities & world view come into play & influence not only how we view the "shipper" debates but virtually all other aspects of the books. I think she's possibly onto something here. The 8 examples are not exclusive. I'm sure we could come up with lots of other areas. There will, of course, be exceptions to the rule, but the general premise that shipping positions may be but one component of an overall approach to this series is intriguing I think. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 28 14:25:51 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:25:51 -0600 Subject: Hermione & the Boys References: <55.1064d7a2.27a4620d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A742BEF.80954FB7@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11041 Hi -- morine10 at aol.com wrote: > Exactly. She challenges his lazy butt and just keeps him from slacking off too much. Without Ron Hermione would be all work and no play. He also is able to get her to admit > when she is wrong. She has the same effect on Harry. :--) And, Harry has also challenged her to lighten up -- PoA when he first shows up in Hogsmeade courtesy of the Marauders' Map. She's very worried about him, and he finally grins at her and says "Are you going to report me?" She smiles back exasperatedly and says "Oh, of course not but ..." > Hermione is bossy and even though she has lightened up considerably and will IMO continue to do so, she will always be bossy. Not necessarily. Are you saying that we human beings aren't capable of fully eradicating negative personality traits? Ever? > And yes he does appreciate her help and loyalty. But he says so himself - she isn't as fun as Ron. I've said it before, but I'll repeat briefly for the newbies. He's a 14-year old boy. *Of course* he misses his male best friend. Of course his female best friend who's a bookworm isn't going to be as much fun to him at that stage in his life. This does *not* mean though, as R/H'ers have asserted, that (a) Harry cares for Ron more than Hermione or (b) that when the characters are older and more mature that he would still long for male companionship over female companionship. He's just not reached that level of maturity yet (he's only just started noticing that girls are pretty for goodness' sake). He's still at the stage where he'd really rather be goofing off than being serious. That won't always be case though. > Both of them need that patented Ron Weasley Fun. Ron can be hilarious -- his sarcasm is a great addition to the Trio. But, Ron isn't always a barrel of laughs to be around. He needlessly prolonged arguments with Hermione (PoA) and with Harry (in GoF). He's funny .... but he's pretty immature and stubborn at this point too (IMO). That could change -- hopefully it will. > Together Hermione and Harry are as dull as one of Professor Binn's goblin lectures. That's a matter of perception. Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 28 14:34:55 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:34:55 -0600 Subject: In defense of Ginny and such References: <950dlg+c9tc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A742E0F.7531495A@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11042 Hi -- I have several points about Ginny: 1. She was *passed out* (incoherent, unhearing, unseeing, uncomprehending of everything that took place in the Chamber of Secrets). She had a very momentary glimpse of Voldemort coming out of the diary before she lost consciousness -- by her own account. In my mind, this isn't really the same thing at all as Harry's confrontations with Voldy. Harry saved her life. But for him, she would have died in the Chamber. She was not saved by any strength of character on her part. As Riddle's outline became clearer & more in focus, Harry could see that she was fading away. 2. Riddle put into her only what he needed to in order for her to serve his ends (IMO). I don't think she could possibly have any permanent residual Riddle powers (like Harry's parseltongue abilities). I also don't know that he necessarily revealed too much about himself in his diary "conversations" with her that year. It sounds to me like he encouraged her to spill out her heart & soul to him, and he took what he needed from her. There's never any indication that he "confided" deep dark secrets in her, things that she'll know & have as a ace-in-the-hole at the end of the day. I could be wrong about that, but it goes against everything we know about Riddle/Voldemort to think he'd reveal anything useful to her (or that she'd be able to remember it if he had). He also wasn't a child when his former self was corresponding with her -- he was 16, already had conceived his aims in life and taken on the secret identity of Lord Voldemort. He was already evil. I just don't picture him confiding any vulnerabilities in her -- I think he'd likely already squelched his vulnerabilities. Just my 2 galleons -- Penny From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 28 14:41:44 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:41:44 -0600 Subject: Testing the Friendship/Question re: H/G References: <950pnv+p53e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A742FA8.E498F95F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11043 Hi -- Jim Ferer wrote: > H/H are not as close as Ron/Harry at first, but I see them growing > closer and closer. She's maturing quickly, as girls are wont to do, > and > rapidly getting her "know-it-all" tendencies under control. A source > of > tension between her and Harry though, is that in the future she will > again do something Harry doesn't want her to do because she fears for > him > (The Firebolt scenario again) He will be angry with her because > she scared him. (Ask my daughters: Wanna get Dad angry? Get him > scared.) I think this could be an excellent basis for a fanfic. I already have a scene much like this in mind as a possible fanfic as a matter-of-fact (yeah, right .... like I'll be writing fanfic after April!). > They're doing some of the work they have to do if the friendship is to > > endure. Romance could be the source of further Ron/Hermione tension, > but what if Ron or Hermione believes the other isn't doing enough for > Harry? What if Hermione neglects a budding romance with Ron because > she thinks Harry needs her? "Harry will be all right for one damned > evening!" Ron snarled. "No he won't!!" Hermione answered hotly. "He > needs both of us, the Death Eaters will be here any day!" "Then why > don't you > just stay with him!" There were tears in his eyes now. "He's got > everything else!!" See - this is the point I've been trying to make. Even if R/H have a romantic fling in canon, it would naturally affect the friendship & the budding romance. It would have to. You've illustrated one of the many possibilities for tension quite well Jim! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 28 14:48:27 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 08:48:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand Order (*that* old saw) References: <01C08971.E3491060.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A74313A.18658B7F@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11044 Hi -- Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Yesterday I visited a friend and wound up talking about HP - No I > had a look at her _first edition_ GoF and it has the corrected wand > order. > (dumfounded surprise). I nearly fell of the sofa in shock. There was > no errata and it was marked First aust ed (just like mine) on the > front page. How wrong/sneaky is that? > : *All* (repeat -- *all*) the Harry Potter books in print at this point, published in whatever language and by whatever publisher, are First Editions. Every single solitary one of them. The *value* is related to which *printing* you have. The print run can be determined from the same page as the publication info. Each publisher does it slightly differently, but you should see a string of numbers across the bottom. One example: 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 00 01 02 03 04 The above is an example of 1st edition, 1st printing of GoF (Scholastic -- US). It seems that the wand order passage was corrected "around" the 9th printing in the US and the 12th printing in the UK. I was at a party last night and easily found a group of others who had read or were reading HP. One woman said that she & her husband had ordered GoF on pre-order from amazon. Her husband got to like page 253 and suddenly it skipped back to pages 155-157 and then ahead to pg 553. So, it was missing a huge section in the middle. She said she'd never seen anything like it: he headed straight for his car & tore out all over town to get another copy. It seems like the publication rush also affected simple printing compilation & binding on some of them. Glad it wasn't me! Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From andeinmn at aol.com Sun Jan 28 14:58:21 2001 From: andeinmn at aol.com (andeinmn at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:58:21 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Newsflash: HP trailer NOT to be shown at SuperBowl Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11045 Thank you, thank you, thank you, John, for saving me from HOURS of tedious viewing for 30 seconds of pleasure!! Ande From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Sun Jan 28 15:00:08 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:00:08 -0000 Subject: Wand order and book Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11046 Penny wrote: "It seems that the wand order passage was corrected "around" the 9th printing in the US and the 12th printing in the UK." I had a bit of spare time the other day and decided to wander around a few books stores. Got a little bored as I had 4 books on order from an online company and a large pile of to read books and so could not justify buying any more until I have finished the ones I have already got. So I did my favourite activity of opening GoF to that page. I was amused to find that a 16th printing had gone back to the original order (James then Lily). Mysterious! Penny wrote: "I was at a party last night and easily found a group of others who had read or were reading HP. One woman said that she & her husband had ordered GoF on pre-order from amazon. Her husband got to like page 253 and suddenly it skipped back to pages 155-157 and then ahead to pg 553. So, it was missing a huge section in the middle. She said she'd never seen anything like it: he headed straight for his car & tore out all over town to get another copy. It seems like the publication rush also affected simple printing compilation & binding on some of them. Glad it wasn't me!" I have had something similar happen to me before. I cannot remember what the book was, but it was a paperback that had been put for a while (so I guess knowing what books I own the it was a Terry Pratchett Discworld book). I had the first 150 number of pages then a repeat of pages 50 to 150, before the book skipped to page 250 and onto the end. So this is not only caused by rushing the printing of the book. It can happen to any book. Simon -- IDENTITY - See Yourself in a New Light "The greatest miricale is not that man stood on the moon; it is that God came and stood in the Earth." - Col. James Irwin From pennylin at swbell.net Sun Jan 28 15:00:43 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:00:43 -0600 Subject: H/H Dull & R/H Loads of Fun? (contrarian view) References: <950mfe+vaim@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A74341B.1D0BB0ED@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11047 Hi -- Kelley wrote: > Agree again on both counts. I had always thought of Ron and Herm as > a balance for Harry, but the triangle analogy is spot on. And I feel > exactly the same Kathy, R/H has much more 'fun'-potential than H/H to > me. I know, H/H-ers, I know, that doesn't counter 'H/H are more > suited in the real world' etc., but come on, be honest: doesn't H/H > just seem a tad dull? Well .... since you asked my opinion: No! I don't see H/H as dull at all. But, I also don't see R/H as being necessarily all fun at all. See .... I don't regard bickering & spatting as fun (or an aphrodisiac!). I've had relationships in the past that were all bickering (or worse!), and it was emotionally exhausting to me. I find it to be absolutely positively zero fun to be picking at each other constantly. So, that just goes to my perception about how a good relationship works. I acknowledge that this modus operandi works for others. But, it sure wouldn't have worked for me. I can count on both hands the number of fights my husband & I've had in over 10 years of knowing one another. That style of relationship is just more my cup of tea so the whole idea of R/H is lost on me from the beginning, if for no other reason than I can't fathom bickering and fighting constantly as a foundation for a solid, compatible relationship. I identify so strongly with Hermione that I also have a hard time picturing *her* wanting that either. That's a big part of my mental block against R/H. > I saw R/H from canon, before I ever even found this group. When I > first learned of the H/H-ers, and how so many of them felt this way > from > canon (before seeing PoU), I could not figure out where they got it > from. That's funny -- there are tons of us H/H'ers who have talked to people who stare blankly and say, "There are really people who think Ron & Hermione will end up together? Nah, that's too obvious. The subtext is all there for H/H." All a matter of perception I guess -- eh? Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From s_ings at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 15:08:02 2001 From: s_ings at yahoo.com (Sheryll Townsend) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 07:08:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] "Stranger Than Paradise" Message-ID: <20010128150802.1854.qmail@web205.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11048 OMG - that was hilarious. Great work, Pippin. Ebony, thanks for the warning - I left the coffee firmly on the desk and was in no danger of damaging the keyboard when I started to laugh! Just what I needed to start my day. Sheryll --- ebonyink at hotmail.com wrote: > ...Pippin's come up with a spoof of my science > project that's even > worse! I laughed so hard while reading it the > first time that > most of the glass of water I was drinking ended up > on my pants and > the computer keyboard. > > Here's the link: > > *Stranger Than Paradise* by Amanita LeStrange > (Pippin's ff.net mask) > http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic/?action=story-read&storyid=192522 > > And here everyone was thinking *I* had issues. :-) > > Thanks again, Pippin... you know how much I needed > cheering up this > weekend, and I appreciated it more than you know. > Laughter is the > best medicine. > > --Ebony AKA AngieJ > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For > more information, see our > website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- > also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups > merger pointers file at > groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > > > ===== "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 15:25:04 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 07:25:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: A Random Thought on the Dursleys Message-ID: <20010128152504.294.qmail@web1003.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11049 Tell me if anyone else can see this (this post was thought up after looking around at a Roald Dahl site): When I think of the Dursleys, I think of Danny DiVito and Rhea Pearlman's characters from the movie "Matilda." And I suppose the boy in the movie could look a little bit like Dudly, if he made his hair lighter and fattenend up. From, Anake ===== ========= ICQ: 37150285 | Voicemail: 1-800-MY-YAHOO (333-702-1984) | AOL IM: Anake33 THE Inspector Gadget Page: http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Screen/7219/ THE George Orwell Club: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thegeorgeorwellclub ========= __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From monika at darwin.inka.de Sun Jan 28 16:17:25 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:17:25 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: PTSD In-Reply-To: <950ojq+mpd0@eGroups.com> References: <950ojq+mpd0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11050 On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:26:18 -0000, "Jim Ferer" wrote: >You forgot one of the diagnostic criteria: if your attorney tells you >you have it. I know PTSD is real, but I've been soured on it. I handle >lawsuits in my work (the risk management side of safety/risk >management) and I've seen allegations of PTSD from people with a >broken arm. It's God's gift to the plaintiff's bar. And the setting of >diagnostic criteria is not just a sceintific, but an ideological and >political act as well. Yes, of course you are right. There are people who abuse it and there will always be. I think you can always fake psychological symptoms as well as psychosomatic pains, and I assume it is *very* difficult to make the difference between people who are really suffering and those who only want some easy money, so to say. It's a dilemma, but how can you solve it? >I don't know if Harry is going to have PTSD in the clinical, >diagnostic sense; but he's going to be beat up pretty badly in this >war, and he's going to suffer. A lot. I have never put forward that *Harry* had PTSD (I don't think so, that was someone else), I have only tried to explain the underlying mechanism of the disorder. It was my impression that someone had said you can't develop the disorder if you don't develop it immediately, and that's not true. Harry won't get PTSD in the canon because he is the hero and it would prevent him from fighting Voldemort effectively. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html Current book: William H. Calvin: The Ascent of Mind From pbnesbit at msn.com Sun Jan 28 16:38:54 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:38:54 -0000 Subject: Newsflash: HP trailer NOT to be shown at SuperBowl In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <951huu+q8jm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11052 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., andeinmn at a... wrote: > Thank you, thank you, thank you, John, for saving me from HOURS of tedious > viewing for 30 seconds of pleasure!! > > Ande I second that! I was not looking forward to forcing myself to watch that thing (not to mention convincing my husband, who also *hates* American football to join me)! Now, if it were a Quidditch match, I'd be there! Parker From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 28 15:58:13 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:58:13 EDT Subject: shipping lanes Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11053 Hi everybody! *hic* Shippin'? Really, itsh all shoooo shilly. *hic*burp* shcuse me - Marvin, Johannsen, a coupla othersh and, um, oh yeah, ME - HAHAHAHAHAHA I almosht forgot myshel' - boy theshe frozhnmarga. *hic* margareed *hic* um - drinksh are tashty - wait a sec, okay? - ssssssslslllrp - ahhhh. You know - really, who caresh? Itsh not sho important. Hey he hey *hic* guessh what? I luv you guyz *sniffle* oh no, now I'm gonna cry - no really, I do, yer all such good peoplesh - Hey Johannshen - pash me the pitcher okay? Oh we all live in a yellow shubmarine, yellow shubnarime... Jeralyn, the voishlady.. From malinaschick at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 17:14:05 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:14:05 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lupin the werewolf and James the stag Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11055 Amanda wrote: <> I'm glad someone said it. I was just about to write a mean comment, sticking up for Ron. I think he has every right to be mad at Lupin. He's a werewolf and that scares the boy. He's 13 years old! Poor guy... Alright, this might be the teenager in me and it probably is gonna look bad, but what excatly is a stag? How is it different from a horse? No one in my house seems to know the answer. I'm very curious. I want to be the mustang in Bill Crawfords and get a personalized license plate and name it Prongs...I already know that my future american eskimo dog is gonna be Prongs... :) So, what is a stag? @~~~ Steph "I wanna hit 'em in the head with a teapot." -POTUS _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From malinaschick at hotmail.com Sun Jan 28 17:26:52 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:26:52 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 508 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11056 Christy wrote: <> I got out the collectible book last night, and they were listed under Hallmark stuff. My mom said she'd have to go online because my brithday is coming in June and she ordered something, though she wouldn't tell me what...Hmm....:) Actually, the journal was the one with the Hogwarts crest on it. :) I saw the other two yesterday when I was at Barnes and Noble. I also got a mug yesterday, at Walden, the one with Hedwig. I absolutely love that mug cuz Hedwig just looks so adorable on it! Trina wrote: >Yes!!! I thought of this last night as I was getting ready for bed. >It was *Ron* leapt to Hermione's defence when Malfoy called her a >Mudblood and wound up belching slugs all day. Granted, Harry was >unaware of how truly nasty it was, but it was the Weasley boys who >tried to take action. (A quick glance at CoS, showed me that Gred and >Forge also tried to jump Malfoy just before Ron whipped out his wand) I was reading GoF yesterday and I noticed the same thing. Ron was sticking up for Hermione! It was when they were in the forest running from the people levitating the muggles. They run into Malfoy who starts dissing Hermione, calling her a Mudblood. Ron very quickly jumps to her defense. I'm sorry, but all the bickering seems to me like it's a cover up. Can you say R/H shipper? :) @~~~ Steph "I like a healthy breeze 'round my privates, thanks." -Archie _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mystril at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 17:27:10 2001 From: mystril at yahoo.com (mystril at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:27:10 -0000 Subject: Lupin the werewolf and James the stag In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <951kpe+9bk4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11057 Steph wrote: > Alright, this might be the teenager in me and it probably is gonna > look bad, > but what excatly is a stag? How is it different from a horse? No one >in my > house seems to know the answer. I'm very curious. I want to be the >mustang > in Bill Crawfords and get a personalized license plate and name it > Prongs...I already know that my future american eskimo dog is gonna > be Prongs... :) So, what is a stag? Hope this hasn't been answered already. The popular English terminology associated with the sexes of various deer is an outgrowth of their importance as game: female deer are usually called does, but the female of the European red deer is a hind, and of the moose or elk a cow; males generally are called bucks, but the male of the red deer is a stag, or, especially when mature, a hart, and of the moose or elk a bull. Several names are used for the fawns of various ages--e.g., yearling, knobber, brocket, staggard (especially applied to male red deer). Fawns of moose or elk are called calves. Source: www.britannica.com ~mystril From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Sun Jan 28 17:46:51 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:46:51 -0500 Subject: Merchandise References: <950ojq+mpd0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A745B0B.E7BA7A4@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 11058 I went shopping yesterday at both our local Hallmark and Warner Bros stores - first off, if anyone sees the lamp in their local store - get the store's phone number (US & canada only) and email me offlist asap! Neither shop had it & I *really* want it. Here's what I did get: Hallmark: Book plates and "property of" stickers Gringots Bank (well, it's for harrison...) The Devil's Snare mini water globe (which means I now have 2 waterglobes with Ron in them...Hmmmm....) Warner Bros: A metal box shaped like a book with the Going On The Boat To Hogwarts scene on it, which I'm going to keep at the office, with all my stickers in it (that last phrase was written by my 9 year old self, who would have *loved* to have these in her sticker collection) A Quidditch Umbrella - can I pretend that it's an anti-water spell? A Slytherin magnet for the fridge A keychain with Harry on his Broomstick They also had these potions kits (like science experiments) and more t-shirts, including a great adult sweatshirt which was *so* snuggly. From bkdelong at pobox.com Sun Jan 28 18:02:22 2001 From: bkdelong at pobox.com (B.K. DeLong) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:02:22 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A745B0B.E7BA7A4@alumni.upenn.edu> References: <950ojq+mpd0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010128125900.0595a8d0@brain-stream.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11059 At 12:46 PM 01/28/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I went shopping yesterday at both our local Hallmark and Warner Bros >stores - first off, if anyone sees the lamp in their local store - get the >store's phone number (US & canada >only) and email me offlist asap! Neither shop had it & I *really* want it. I've just posted some new news this weekend about the Series II stuff from Enesco (new globes, cookies jars, sculptured character mugs and stones), stuffed animals from Gund, Interactive "palm talkers" coming from Tiger Toys....Mattel also has a ton of new stuff due out including action-figure like 3D dioramas, and they claim small games based on "each chapter." Department 56 has new boxes due out including 2 lighted scenes and an animated flying scene. http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org -- B.K. DeLong bkdelong at pobox.com 617.877.3271 http://www.brain-stream.com http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 28 18:39:27 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:39:27 -0000 Subject: Yule Ball Re: U-boat Noship (was question for noshippers) In-Reply-To: <94vu82+b5g4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <951p0v+1vaq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11061 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., alw at w... wrote: > May I come aboard? I definitely fall into the ranks of no-ship > and I agree with Marvin's views of "no-ship" for the most part. > The romance isn't what I focus on. If it happens...great! I'm > very curious to see how JKR handles it. It was interesting seeing > her throw into the whole Yule Ball/dating scenerio...imo it fits > quite well with Harry and co's ages...they are 14. Welcome aboard, Amy! I loved the Yule Ball & dating stuff too, in a cringing sort of way. My father and I read GoF at roughly the same time, and one night he actually called me to ask if that section was as painful to read for me as it was for him, causing flashbacks of adolescent awkwardness and forced socialization. Awooooga! (god, that's fun) marvin From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 28 18:45:34 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:45:34 -0000 Subject: Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <951pce+gfll@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11062 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Nathan" wrote: > Rememebr that Dumbledore had a pragmatic reason as well for leaving > Harry with the Dursleys when McGonagall was attempting to dissuade > him from it. It was to prevent him from feeling to self-important > too early in his life. It seems to have worked, although I > personally have my doubts on whether life with the Dursleys, > slapstickally comical as it may be, is worth it at all. > > Nathan Amen. But Dumbledore might have had still another reason...a basic respect for rule of law and custom, even Muggle law. If the Dursley's are Harry's next of kin, then it's likely they have the "right" to raise Harry, even if they don't especially want to. Perhaps Dumbledore feels that, however good his intentions, he just doesn't have the right to unilaterally decide that Harry would be better off someplace else. > PS Marvin!(glurbleburble) Lemme in!(bubblewurble) Gillyweed doesn't > last forever, ya know. :) Leave the hatch open, Amy, we've another brave soul climbing aboard! From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 28 18:57:16 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:57:16 -0000 Subject: shipping lanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <951q2c+eeph@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11063 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "voicelady" wrote: > Hi everybody! *hic* Shippin'? Really, itsh all shoooo shilly. > *hic*burp* shcuse me - Marvin, Johannsen, a coupla othersh and, um, > oh yeah, ME - HAHAHAHAHAHA I almosht forgot myshel' - boy theshe > frozhnmarga. *hic* margareed *hic* um - drinksh are tashty - wait a > sec, okay? - ssssssslslllrp - ahhhh. You know - really, who > caresh? Itsh not sho important. Hey he hey *hic* guessh what? I > luv you guyz *sniffle* oh no, now I'm gonna cry - no really, I do, > yer all such good peoplesh - Hey Johannshen - pash me the pitcher > okay? Oh we all live in a yellow shubmarine, yellow shubnarime... > > Jeralyn, the voishlady.. Life is good. Pass the brownies! marvin From cassandraclaire at mail.com Sun Jan 28 18:58:43 2001 From: cassandraclaire at mail.com (cassandraclaire at mail.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:58:43 -0000 Subject: H/H Dull & R/H Loads of Fun? (contrarian view) In-Reply-To: <3A74341B.1D0BB0ED@swbell.net> Message-ID: <951q53+qbdh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11064 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Kelley wrote: > > > Agree again on both counts. I had always thought of Ron and Herm as a balance for Harry, but the triangle analogy is spot on. And I feel exactly the same Kathy, R/H has much more 'fun'-potential than H/H to me. I know, H/H-ers, I know, that doesn't counter 'H/H are more suited in the real world' etc., but come on, be honest: doesn't H/H just seem a tad dull? > > Well .... since you asked my opinion: No! I don't see H/H as dull at > all. > *chortles* Dull? I'd have to say that far before I susbscribe to the "H/H are more suited in the real world" theory, I subscribe to the "It's just much more interesting" theory. I agree with Penny that Ron and Hermione's endless whining at each other seems to me to be far less entertaining angry sparks (she's got more entertaining angry sparks with Draco than Ron) that tedious bickering. (Even Harry finds it tedious..he takes refuge in the owlery to avoid them.) I guess it's a never-the-twain shall meet situation, because while I see endless interesting possibilities in H/H (Harry has to go off and save the world; Hermione, being the smartest witch of her generation, can help, him, fight with him, be an equal partner to him) I just don't at all see the fun in R/H. I just... don't see it. I remember when I first wanted to write an HP fanfiction, I knew I wanted a romance and I knew I wanted it to be either H/H or H/D....it just didn't occur to me to write R/H because I didn't think I could wring a single interesting situation out of it. Maybe I'll pull an Ebony and try to force myself to write an R/H, just to see if I can do it. Cassie From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 19:06:56 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:06:56 -0000 Subject: shipping lanes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <951qkg+n4bv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11065 *walkin' in w/ a tray* Can I crash the party? I got Jello Shots!!! Come and get your jello shots! Got Bott's Beans in the middle! Watch out for the booger flavored one! It's in there somewhere! *slurp* OOOoooohhh great with margarita chasers! MMmmmMMmmmmm... *hhic* wheeeeeeeee! wrote: > Hi everybody! *hic* Shippin'? Really, itsh all shoooo shilly. *hic*burp* shcuse me - Marvin, Johannsen, a coupla othersh and, um, oh yeah, ME - HAHAHAHAHAHA I almosht forgot myshel' - boy theshe frozhnmarga. *hic* margareed *hic* um - drinksh are tashty - wait a sec, okay? - ssssssslslllrp - ahhhh. You know - really, who caresh? Itsh not sho important. Hey he hey *hic* guessh what? I luv you guyz *sniffle* oh no, now I'm gonna cry - no really, I do, yer all such good peoplesh - Hey Johannshen - pash me the pitcher okay? Oh we all live in a yellow shubmarine, yellow shubnarime... > > Jeralyn, the voishlady.. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 19:06:33 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:06:33 -0000 Subject: In defense of Ginny and such In-Reply-To: <3A742E0F.7531495A@swbell.net> Message-ID: <951qjp+h8hh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11066 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > I have several points about Ginny: > > 1. She was *passed out* (incoherent, unhearing, unseeing, >uncomprehending of everything that took place in the Chamber of >Secrets). She had a very momentary glimpse of Voldemort > coming out of the diary before she lost consciousness -- by her own >account. That's true - she was unconscious and she did only glimpse him. In Harry's *first* confrontation, he was an infant/toddler, and remembers only a flash of light and some laughter. She was, however, conscious while corresponding with him for nearly a whole school year. I think she'd have had the chance to learn *something* about him. Especially when his plan was for her not to survive - it's a classic evil overloard thing to do - give something away when you're planning to kill the person, only for the person to escape. So far Voldemort's main weaknesses have involved pride, in my view. In my mind, this isn't really the same thing at all as >Harry's confrontations with Voldy. I don't think anyone would argue that (anyone, anyone? :)). Nobody's said she's equal to Harry's abilities, or that she's had equal experiences. I think the point was just that she's a little bit more than a throw-away character used as a polt device in CoS, and probably at least as useful as Buckbeak to the story as a whole. She's got the potential to be a real part of the fight, and to show Harry and the reader that she's more than just a giggling redheaded child (although I quite liked her even when that's all she was). If the other characters get to grow and evolve, then Ginny probably will too, provided she's not killed off on page 1 of book 5. > > Harry saved her life. But for him, she would have died in the >Chamber. She was not saved by any strength of character on her part. >As Riddle's outline became clearer & more in > focus, Harry could see that she was fading away. Agreed - Harry saved her life. I don't really see that changing the fact that she might be useful. Harry and Ron saved Hermione's life when the troll had her cornered, and Hermione wasn't exactly displaying her character strengths at the time, while cowering in the corner. She's sure proven quite useful since then, however, and has plenty of strenght of character that was not displayed at that time, but showed up immediately after. Surely you agree with that? :) > 2. Riddle put into her only what he needed to in order for her to >serve his ends (IMO). I don't think she could possibly have any >permanent residual Riddle powers (like Harry's > parseltongue abilities). Me either - I never considered that she might have gotten any powers from him, but I can't imagine that in the months he was seducing her he never once let her learn anything about himself that might be useful against his later self, who, now that I think of it, has no way of knowing what his young counterpart may have shared, as the diary was destroyed. Malfoy probably told him what he knew of what happened, but he can't know the details. There's room for a fake-out even, which would be hysterical, if unlikely! I can just picture it - Harry: "We know your secret." Voldemort: "What secret?!?" Harry: "You know! Young Tom told Ginny all about it through that diary you left behind." Voldemort(startng to look worried): "That's rediculous, he'd, I mean I'd never tell." Harry (whispered aside to Ron/Ginny): "Yup, there's a secret all right." Harry (to Voldemort): "Well he did, and we're going to tell everyone unless you leave those muggles alone!" Sorry, had to indulge my goofy imagination, but I can just see Voldemort getting all worried - would be too funny! >I also don't know that he necessarily >revealed too much about himself in his diary "conversations" with her >that year. It sounds to me like he encouraged > her to spill out her heart & soul to him, and he took what he needed >from her. There's never any indication that he "confided" deep dark >secrets in her, things that she'll know & > have as a ace-in-the-hole at the end of the day. I'm of the opinion that he did confide something - I'm not talking deep dark secrets, necessarily. He showed Harry a pretty vulnerable moment in his life (begging the headmaster not to send him back to the orphanage) in just the short encounter they had. Granted he showed that to manipulate Harry, but that's exactly why I think he may have told Ginny other things - to manipulate her into his trust. I just think that in all those months Ginny must have learned something, even if she doesn't recognize it's significance yet. >I could be wrong >about that, but it goes against everything we know about >Riddle/Voldemort to think he'd reveal anything useful to > her (or that she'd be able to remember it if he had). I think this goes right along with him deciding to blast a baby and not even considering what must have been reasonably available magical knowlege - that his mother's sacrifice would protect him. I think it also goes along with the overly-elaborate, dramatic way he went about getting Harry in GoF - he's not the most coldly logical Evil Baddie I've ever seen >:(} (that's supposed to be a horned Evil Baddie with an Evil Baddie goatee - didn't come out very well) >He also >wasn't a child when his former self was corresponding with her -- he >was 16, already had conceived his aims in life > and taken on the secret identity of Lord Voldemort. He was already >evil. I just don't picture him confiding any vulnerabilities in her >-- I think he'd likely already squelched his > vulnerabilities. Everyone has vulnerabilities - I don't believe for a minute that the 16 year old Tom Riddle was invulnerable - if he were, he'd never have made the mistakes he did later on. I believe that Ginny is going to have significance in the stories in the future, and that it may be in this way. I also believe that CoS must have had some significance to the growth of the Story as a whole, and that Ginny would never have been made a plot device and nothing more. If JKR didn't have any further use for her, she could have just let her die down there. Of course this is probably one more place where we'll just have to agree to disagree, which is ok too - makes for fun discussion! ;) Happy Superbowl Sunday all! kimberly From msl at fc.net Sun Jan 28 19:10:04 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:10:04 -0000 Subject: Animagi vs transfigeration (was Re: Do Animagi choose their forms? In-Reply-To: <01C08976.318ACC60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <951qqc+qnt3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11067 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > > Ok, I think there is a difference, I think it has to do with skill > level and probably indicates different level of attributes while in > non-human form > > I think that transfiguration is easier and can change anything to > anything (porcupine to pin cushion, desk to pig for example, with > the phonetically allied words appearing easier. You might change > yourself as part of this spell, storm to dog, or cat, or Siamese > fighting fish for example. > > animagus would appear to be a *true* expression of your self. (to > me), akin to the 'true name' concept (as I understand it) in that > you can only have one and you don't get to choose it. I think it's > a more 'natural' transformation because its an expression of > yourself, requiring less energy to maintain (though more skill to > execute). I like this way of looking at the issue. It seems to me that the animagi have either altered their very beings or released a heretofore untapped aspect of their beings in order to gain the ability to transform at will into an animal that reflects symbolically some aspect of their characters. They've altered their "essences," if you will, in very profound way. Compared to that, the transformation of a person, even oneself, into an animal on a temporary basis by means of ordinary spellcasting is a bit more superficial. Here's a question; what happens when a really complicated person becomes an animagus? Might they turn into a magical hybrid beast such as a hippogriff? Maybe an aloof, highly intellectual sort of person would end up transforming himself into something like a centaur, unable to fully rid himself of his or her hyperanalytical, human-all-to-human side... marvin From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 19:56:03 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (Christy Kwak) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:56:03 -0000 Subject: Merchandise In-Reply-To: <3A745B0B.E7BA7A4@alumni.upenn.edu> Message-ID: <951tgj+2pt2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11069 Aloha Heidi! You can ask Hallmark to see if they will transfer a lamp from another store to the store nearest to you. But might want to ask about how being a franchise might affect your ability to get it. I saw one at the Hallmark in mall I work at (Ala Moana Shopping Center/Hawaii, sorry, I don't the phone number w/ me now) but noticed that wasn't in the mall nearest to my home. I didn't know if it was because one ran out or if is was the fact that the franchises were owned by different people so they order different things. Also, I was talking to a Warner Brothers associate and she told me that Hallmark, Barnes and Noble, and WB are going to have very different things because that's how they wanted it merchandised. There will be very little to no duplication of product. So far on my island that seems to be holding true. Even with the Bott's beans. WB had them but it wasn't the one with the weird flavors in the red pouch. The Sweet Factory had them (unbelievably it was 5.99 for that little thing!!). I am fortunate that the mall I work in has WB, Sweet Factory and Hallmark and the mall that I pass going home has the only Barnes and Noble on our side of the island and another Hallmark for comparison! *Sigh* so many places to feed my addictions! The only thing that no one has right now and I would love to have is a golden snitch antenna ball! Wouldn't that be cool?! I think that I will make one on my next day off! Christy --- In HPforGrownups at y..., heidi wrote: > I went shopping yesterday at both our local Hallmark and Warner Bros stores - first off, if anyone sees the lamp in their local store - get the store's phone number (US & canada > only) and email me offlist asap! Neither shop had it & I *really* want it. > > Here's what I did get: > Hallmark: > Book plates and "property of" stickers > Gringots Bank (well, it's for harrison...) > The Devil's Snare mini water globe (which means I now have 2 waterglobes with Ron in them...Hmmmm....) > > Warner Bros: > A metal box shaped like a book with the Going On The Boat To Hogwarts scene on it, which I'm going to keep at the office, with all my stickers in it (that last phrase was written by > my 9 year old self, who would have *loved* to have these in her sticker collection) > A Quidditch Umbrella - can I pretend that it's an anti-water spell? > A Slytherin magnet for the fridge > A keychain with Harry on his Broomstick > > They also had these potions kits (like science experiments) and more t-shirts, including a great adult sweatshirt which was *so* snuggly. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 19:58:09 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:58:09 -0000 Subject: H/H Dull & R/H Loads of Fun? (contrarian view) In-Reply-To: <3A74341B.1D0BB0ED@swbell.net> Message-ID: <951tkh+mjnf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11070 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Kelley wrote: > > > Agree again on both counts. I had always thought of Ron and Herm as > > a balance for Harry, but the triangle analogy is spot on. And I feel > > exactly the same Kathy, R/H has much more 'fun'-potential than H/H to > > me. I know, H/H-ers, I know, that doesn't counter 'H/H are more > > suited in the real world' etc., but come on, be honest: doesn't H/H > > just seem a tad dull? > > Well .... since you asked my opinion: No! I don't see H/H as dull at > all. > > But, I also don't see R/H as being necessarily all fun at all. See .... > I don't regard bickering & spatting as fun (or an aphrodisiac!). I've > had relationships in the past that were all bickering (or worse!), and > it was emotionally exhausting to me. I find it to be absolutely > positively zero fun to be picking at each other constantly. So, that > just goes to my perception about how a good relationship works. I > acknowledge that this modus operandi works for others. But, it sure > wouldn't have worked for me. I can count on both hands the number of > fights my husband & I've had in over 10 years of knowing one another. > That style of relationship is just more my cup of tea so the whole idea > of R/H is lost on me from the beginning, if for no other reason than I > can't fathom bickering and fighting constantly as a foundation for a > solid, compatible relationship. I identify so strongly with Hermione > that I also have a hard time picturing *her* wanting that either. > That's a big part of my mental block against R/H. > > > I saw R/H from canon, before I ever even found this group. When I > > first learned of the H/H-ers, and how so many of them felt this way > > from > > canon (before seeing PoU), I could not figure out where they got it > > from. > > That's funny -- there are tons of us H/H'ers who have talked to people > who stare blankly and say, "There are really people who think Ron & > Hermione will end up together? Nah, that's too obvious. The subtext is > all there for H/H." > > All a matter of perception I guess -- eh? I think it must be. ;) It's funny because I think H/G would be really interesting because of the early relationship - there would be so much to resolve in order for it to work. Harry would have to wonder if Ginny's feelings had matured past her original awe of him, and Ginny would have to work through the same thing. The real thing is never quite like the ideal we imagined if we've had a crush on someone for any lenght of time. All of these things make it so intriguing to me that I'd like to see it explored. At the same time the few times we've seen real glimpses of Ginny's character, she's been very caring, and very concerned with people's feelings. I think she has the potential to be a strong, supportive partner in a relationship. Hermione, I think, is sensitive to Harry's feelings, and cares a lot, but she's quite straightforward about it and rather blunt. I think Harry's gun shy emotionally as a result of having grown up in an environment where nobody cared how he felt. A soft touch like Ginny (comforting Ron without teasing, standing up in a quiet but firm way for Neville), would be easier for Harry to share the deep-down stuff with without feeling pressured. (in my perception, of course :)) And Ron/Hermione seem like fun to me because neither of them *do* bottle things up - they are both very up-front with their emotions, and, while volatile, I think it is healthy. When a point of contention comes up, having a wild row, getting it all out, and then getting over it and moving on to work together toward a common goal is not a bad thing if that is in your nature, and it seems to be so for both of them. I guess also part of the fun of it for me is that I love a good romantic comedy. When I read a scene of Ron and Hermione bickering, I grin because it takes me back to Claudette Colbert and Clark Gable in It Happened One Night, or for those of you who aren't into the oldies but goodies, Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks in You've Got Mail (a weaker example, but the first one I could think of that lots of people may have seen). The bickering, to me, shows the boiling up of their feelings for one another. They're still not quite capable of dealing with the deeper issues of their feelings for each other, so it comes out as something simpler, more basic. It's a classic representation of budding romance in modern film and fiction, and one that I enjoy. So yes, I'd say it's all a matter of perception. Nobody's right or wrong until JKR says so, and if we're talking about what we'd like to see instead of what we think will happen, then nobody's wrong, ever. Unless, of course, they want to match up Ron and Aragog or something - that's just cruel! It would be such a bore if everyone thought the same way, wouldn't it? :D kimberly From moongirlk at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 20:20:57 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (moongirlk at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:20:57 -0000 Subject: shipping lanes In-Reply-To: <951qkg+n4bv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <951uv9+5ljp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11072 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Christy Kwak" wrote: > *walkin' in w/ a tray* > Can I crash the party? I got Jello Shots!!! Come and get your jello > shots! Got Bott's Beans in the middle! > Watch out for the booger flavored one! It's in there somewhere! > *slurp* > OOOoooohhh great with margarita chasers! MMmmmMMmmmmm... > *hhic* > wheeeeeeeee! > Zumone stop the bouncin' fehrret! I'm gettin' ill! Hey Christy - Could you apparate me one of those Jello shots over here? But please don't give me the one with the worm-flavored bean! Mmm - good stuff. I only needed one though. Ok, well one more won't kill me - oooh! Pineapple ones? Yay! Whhadaya say we have a li'l innnnnnter-ship mixsher? I wash hopin' to dance wish Shohhanson. Urrgh - Bleach! I shink I got da earwaxsch fflafored one. kimmmerly > > > > > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "voicelady" wrote: > > Hi everybody! *hic* Shippin'? Really, itsh all shoooo shilly. > *hic*burp* shcuse me - Marvin, Johannsen, a coupla othersh and, um, > oh yeah, ME - HAHAHAHAHAHA I almosht forgot myshel' - boy theshe > frozhnmarga. *hic* margareed *hic* um - drinksh are tashty - wait a > sec, okay? - ssssssslslllrp - ahhhh. You know - really, who caresh? > Itsh not sho important. Hey he hey *hic* guessh what? I luv you > guyz *sniffle* oh no, now I'm gonna cry - no really, I do, yer all > such good peoplesh - Hey Johannshen - pash me the pitcher okay? Oh > we all live in a yellow shubmarine, yellow shubnarime... > > > > Jeralyn, the voishlady.. From jferer at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 20:33:02 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:33:02 -0000 Subject: Testing the Friendship/Question re: H/G In-Reply-To: <3A742FA8.E498F95F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <951vlu+37o4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11073 Me:"A source of tension between her and Harry though, is that in the future she will again do something Harry doesn't want her to do because she fears for him (The Firebolt scenario again) He will be angry with her because she scared him." Penny: "I think this could be an excellent basis for a fanfic. I already have a scene much like this in mind as a possible fanfic as a matter-of-fact (yeah, right .... like I'll be writing fanfic after April!)." Would you like to collaborate? I think it's the source of a fanfic too. Hermione opened half an eye. "Lily's up again, Harry. Your turn." A groan. "She sounds hungry, though. *I* can't nurse her, can I?" "I can change that, my dear." "I'm up! I'm up!" From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Sun Jan 28 20:45:50 2001 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 15:45:50 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagi vs transfigeration References: <01C08976.318ACC60.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <3A7484FE.DE7A4D84@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11074 Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > WARNING I have no cannonical evidence for the following, I just *thunk* it > > Ok, I think there is a difference, I think it has to do with skill level and > probably indicates different level of attributes while in non-human form > > I think that transfiguration is easier and can change anything to anything > (porcupine to pin cushion, desk to pig for example, with the phonetically > allied words appearing easier. You might change yourself as part of this spell, > storm to dog, or cat, or Siamese fighting fish for example. > > animagus would appear to be a *true* expression of your self. (to me), akin to > the 'true name' concept (as I understand it) in that you can only have one and > you don't get to choose it. I think it's a more 'natural' transformation > because its an expression of yourself, requiring less energy to maintain > (though more skill to execute). > > You know how some people are just skilled in some things. Think about watching > a child who is 'naturally' talented on the hockey field, or playing the violin > or what ever and place a 'normally gifted' child next to them. With practice > the second child might get really good but they will never have that 'natural' > grace of the first child. A very interesting point. I need some time to chew this one over. But immediately what comes to mind is Krum in the Second Task in GoF. Remember, when his tranforms?/transfigures? himself into a half-man/half-shark. Does this qualify as a transfiguration charm? A poor attempt at becoming an animagi? I'm flashing back to PoA when Lupin says that nasty accidents can occur during animagical transformations--who put Krum back to rights? Did he do it himself? Did Karakoff help? Was it a job for Madam Pomfrey? And if it is, as you say (and I believe as well, now) an expression of your inner self, what does it mean that Krum became a shark? I don't think it bodes well for him as a character, though I was rather hoping he would turn out to be a rather nice guy. Sorry that I've thrown out so many hypotheticals without any attempt at answer--maybe I'll post my own answers later. drpam whose husband is out with the girls and the in-laws and whose baby is asleep, leaving her gloriously alone for an hour or two... From pbarhug at tidalwave.net Sun Jan 28 21:06:03 2001 From: pbarhug at tidalwave.net (Pam Hugonnet) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:06:03 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: PTSD References: <950ojq+mpd0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A7489BB.D5A3E4BE@tidalwave.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11075 Jim Ferer wrote: > You forgot one of the diagnostic criteria: if your attorney tells you > you have it. I know PTSD is real, but I've been soured on it. I handle > lawsuits in my work (the risk management side of safety/risk > management) and I've seen allegations of PTSD from people with a > broken arm. It's God's gift to the plaintiff's bar. And the setting of > diagnostic criteria is not just a sceintific, but an ideological and > political act as well. > Not really. I do realise that attorneys will try to fly anything that could ahve potential to help their client. That's their job; that's what they are supposed to do. And there are always unscrupulous people and unscrupulous attorneys who will claim just about anything. But malingering (faking) is very hard to do and fairly easily spotted by trained professionals. It is unforunate that psychological illnesses are looked on as attempts to avoid consequences, malingering or characterological weakness by many and those who work with or on behalf of those individuals are often treated like interlopers who are out to destroy the very fabric of society. What I find interesting about the development of PTSD (which brings it back to Harry) is that many individuals who are victims of or witnesses to horrific events do not develop the disorder. Some research seem to suggest that it many have something to do with not only with individual differences (world view, stress tolerance, that sort of thing) but also with the reactions and responses of others during and after the traumatic event. How the event is understood by others (is it a shared experience?) Is the victim supported by his/her community? Is there a willingness to talk through and process the events? It certainly seems that Harry has a great deal of support at this point, particularly from Dumbledore and Hargid. At this point, I'd say I don't think he would develop a PTSD-like syndrome. After the next three books though, I might have to eat my words. drpam > > The thing is, it makes things harder on *you*, looking to understand > and help people who really have it. > > I don't know if Harry is going to have PTSD in the clinical, > diagnostic sense; but he's going to be beat up pretty badly in this > war, and he's going to suffer. A lot. > > > Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our > website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jan 28 20:43:54 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:43:54 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Next steps - correction Message-ID: <00aa01c0896b$07c48700$1e3670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 11076 Hi everyone, Earlier today, I sent a message to the list that was intended for the moderator group only, and there were one or two responses also made to the list, because of my error. There was nothing really 'undercover' about the discussion, but since we haven't made a decision, I have deleted some of the messages in question to avoid confusion. I stress again that we haven't made any firm decisions on next steps for the club as yet, so you should all disregard that discussion for now (particularly those of you who still have the messages in your in-boxes). The things mentioned are still only possibilities... Apologies. Neil Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 28 21:39:44 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 13:39:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: WizardCard Message-ID: <20010128213944.15599.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11077 This is something I came up with on a whim. Let's just say wizards have credit cards. PS: Some of the prices I just guessed at, except for the wand. The price of the wand I got from Steve's Lexicon site. Please excuse my parody, as I am quite new at parodying stuff from Harry Potter. To tell the truth, this is my first, and if someone else has done something simular, I'm sorry. WizardCard Commercial: Wand from Ollivanders: 7 Galleons (Shows Harry Potter with his new wand. Huge smile on his face. Ollivander in the background, beaming.) A standard set of textbooks: 10 Galleons (Shows Hagrid and Harry in shop buying textbooks) A pet Owl: 15 galleons (Shows Harry and Hedwig) Leaving your worthless caretakers after finding out you're the most famous boy wizard ever: Priceless There's some things Galleons can't buy. For others, use WizardCard. From, Anake ===== "There's no way out of here. It'll be dark soon. There is no way out of here," --Torgo, Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966) ICQ: 37150285, Yahoo: neptune_1984 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From mbrose at akula.com Sun Jan 28 21:57:35 2001 From: mbrose at akula.com (Michelle Brose) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:57:35 -0500 Subject: New member In-Reply-To: <980710713.9837.70315.l6@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010128165735.01476d3c@akula.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11078 Hi everyone, I'm not quite new here; I've been lurking for a bit to get to know my way around. I probably won't be a very frequent poster; I've only read the first two books as of yet, and most of the discussion is going over my head as a consequence. To give you some background on who I am, I'm 26 years old, and a New York City web designer in the Muggle world. I didn't even bother trying the obsession quiz 'cuz I'm still so new, but the sorting hat put me in Gryffindor followed by Ravenclaw, Hufflepuff and Slytherin respectively. The character quiz listed me as most like Dumbledore followed by Harry and Hermione and Hagrid. And my ship preference is H/H; I feel that JKR has set Hermione up to be the heroine of the series, and the heroine always gets the hero, right? RIGHT? (Sorry about that, got a little carried away. I identify with Hermione; I was always the decidedly plain girl who worked her butt off, got the best grades, got snickered at for it, consequently developed a social conscience, etc. I want to see the geek goddess get the guy (without resorting to silicone implants) for once, dammit. Not that there's anything wrong with Ron; he's heroic enough, but--sad to say--if any of the main characters get killed off in the next book, he's most likely to be it.) Anyway, on a lighter note, I did catch the discussion on clotted cream, and decided that I had to try it. I followed the link--thank you to whoever provided it--to the King Arthur Baking Company web site. Boy, was it ever a mistake to visit that web site with an empty stomach. I ended up ordering one of their scone mixes, clotted cream, golden syrup, and a few other accoutrements that threaten my girlish figure... I had the scones this morning with a bit of clotted cream, and they were fabulous. I also tried the golden syrup, but I felt it overwhelmed the flavor of the scones. I'll try it over French toast sometime soon. I think it would be interesting to sample more of the cuisine in Harry's world, so the next thing I'd like to try is treacle tarts. Or maybe I'll try my hand at making chocolate frogs. I'm looking at frog-shaped candy molds on eBay now... somebody stop me! Michelle P.S. it's too late for me... I've already placed a bid on a frog mold. Save yourselves! From john at walton.to Sun Jan 28 22:04:10 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:04:10 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New member (New York!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010128165735.01476d3c@akula.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11079 Michelle Brose wrote: > To give you some background on who I am, I'm 26 years > old, and a New York City web designer in the Muggle world. Hi Michelle, Yay! A third New York Metro Area person! Jim Ferer's in Darien, Voicelady's in NYC (I think...) and I was born in the city, live in Westchester and go to university in Scotland. :) Jim and I were thinking about perhaps having some sort of meet-up in March-April time when I'm home for break. How do you and Voicelady feel about trying dimsum at my favorite dimsum palace one weekend? --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From ABoyko at starchoice.com Sun Jan 28 22:06:25 2001 From: ABoyko at starchoice.com (ABoyko at starchoice.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 18:06:25 -0400 Subject: Various stuff Message-ID: <771412C4D10CD311B09D00902727A97301DEEEAA@lincoln.starchoice.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11080 1. Considering Harry's abusive upbringing, he may not reach his height potential due to malnutrition. He was often locked in the cupboard without meals, and was almost starved to death at the beginning of CoS. There are other factors as well. Due to some breast reduction surgery this spring that alleviated a lot of pressure off my back, my posture improved and I grew two inches. At the age of 34, so I really don't think it was a delayed growth spurt. 3. I finally bought some merchandise. I got the little glitter globe of Ron in the Chess Match. I could not bring myself to get the calendar, even at 75% off, because Harry looks stunned IMO. Angela From msmacgoo at one.net.au Sun Jan 28 22:09:51 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (msmacgoo at one.net.au) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:09:51 -0000 Subject: Wand Order (*that* old saw) In-Reply-To: <3A74313A.18658B7F@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9525bf+k1mg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11081 Penny said: : *All* (repeat -- *all*) the Harry > Potter books in print at this point, published in whatever language and > by whatever publisher, are First Editions. Every single solitary one of > them. Oh, goodness me, I was off line during the start of the corrected wand order discussion. I didn't think it worked like that! another illusion shattered! woe is me! I wasn't really interested in the value of the book, more the lack of warning, I know you've all said there has been no publicity about it but I didn't relaise this extended to the books themselves. ok, so a really OT question. - what's the difference between a 'edition' and a 'printing'? I thought that the former was changed everytime changes were made to the text and the later merely related to any given print run. .... If that is the case I think I'm finally getting what you were all talking about a few weeks ago about this .... Oh the scales have fallen from my eyes and I do not like what I see storm From rina at love-productions.com Sun Jan 28 22:41:19 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:41:19 -0600 Subject: Buying books from UK Amazon Message-ID: <015101c0897b$750330e0$a2448cac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11082 Has any other American tried buying the HP books from UK Amazon? If so, how did you pay? Because I don't have any pound notes lying around, or even a UK bank to draw a cheque from. So ideas and help would be greatly appreciated. : ) Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at walton.to Sun Jan 28 22:50:18 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:50:18 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Buying books from UK Amazon In-Reply-To: <015101c0897b$750330e0$a2448cac@shelley> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11083 Rina Stewart wrote: > Has any other American tried buying the HP books from UK Amazon? If so, > how did you pay? Because I don't have any pound notes lying around, or even a > UK bank to draw a cheque from. So ideas and help would be greatly > appreciated. : ) You can use a credit card, or alternatively I'm happy to cart stuff from the US to UK and back (I live in NY and go to university in Scotland) -- you could send me US $ and I could purchase UK stuff with my GBPounds bank account and post it from NY if you can work out US postage by weight. Of course, this also saves you international postage :D Feel free to email me offlist. :) --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From voicelady at mymailstation.com Sun Jan 28 21:56:42 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (voicelady) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:56:42 EDT Subject: [HPforGrownups] Buying books from UK Amazon Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11084 Just pay by credit card - it will show up as the US$ exchange amount on your statement. (I bought all of my UK editions this way! -------------------------------------------------------------- Has any other American tried buying the HP books from UK Amazon? If so, how did you pay? Because I don't have any pound notes lying around, or even a UK bank to draw a cheque from. So ideas and help would be greatly appreciated. : ) Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups Click here for more details http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/1/_/_/_/980721846/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From fefe at fazekas.hu Sun Jan 28 23:01:05 2001 From: fefe at fazekas.hu (fefe at fazekas.hu) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:01:05 -0000 Subject: Hermione & the Boys In-Reply-To: <3A742BEF.80954FB7@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9528bh+dktr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11085 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: [...] > > Hermione is bossy and even though she has lightened up considerably and will IMO continue to do so, she will always be bossy. > > Not necessarily. Are you saying that we human beings aren't capable of fully eradicating negative personality traits? Ever? Hermione is not bossy at all in GoF, Harry and Ron can be happy that they have such a good friend. > > > And yes he does appreciate her help and loyalty. But he says so himself - she isn't as fun as Ron. > > I've said it before, but I'll repeat briefly for the newbies. He's a 14-year old boy. *Of course* he misses his male best friend. Of course his female best friend who's a > bookworm isn't going to be as much fun to him at that stage in his life. This does *not* mean though, as R/H'ers have asserted, that (a) Harry cares for Ron more than Hermione or > (b) that when the characters are older and more mature that he would still long for male companionship over female companionship. He's just not reached that level of maturity yet > (he's only just started noticing that girls are pretty for goodness' sake). He's still at the stage where he'd really rather be goofing off than being serious. That won't always > be case though. Yes, some shippers often forget that they are only fourteen... if you want them to grow up quickly, then read/write some fanfic :) I still have some memories of those years... We had already noticed that girls are girls, but friendships were more important. When we were around 11-12, girls were all "bossy" like Hermione in PS and CoS, they always told us, boys, what to do, what is good, etc., but they outgrowed it, as Hermione did... > > > Both of them need that patented Ron Weasley Fun. > > Ron can be hilarious -- his sarcasm is a great addition to the Trio. But, Ron isn't always a barrel of laughs to be around. He needlessly prolonged arguments with Hermione (PoA) > and with Harry (in GoF). He's funny .... but he's pretty immature and stubborn at this point too (IMO). That could change -- hopefully it will. I'd like to disagree at this point. In some scenes, Harry behaves definitely more mature than Ron does. Of course Hermione is the most mature among the trio, as it is normal among 14 years old kids. And i am sure that they'll be more mature later because they'll be older and JK will surely write them behaving according to their age. > > > Together Hermione and Harry are as dull as one of Professor Binn's goblin lectures. > > That's a matter of perception. I don't think someone is dull just because she/he isn't as much funny as Ron. The Weasleys are undoubtedly fantastic charachers, but i don't think everyone else is dull... btw i REALLY like Fred and George, and Ron too, maybe even Percy :) I'm still waiting for Ginny, but JK promised that we "only" have to wait until Book Five... > > Penny From lj2d30 at gateway.net Sun Jan 28 23:26:20 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (lj2d30 at gateway.net) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:26:20 -0000 Subject: Harry as an Entrepreneur (long) Message-ID: <9529qs+o3hj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11086 As I was hanging out at the pharmacy waiting for my scrip to be filled, I noticed that Harry has made the cover of Entrepreneur magazine. Naturally, I had to read it and, as a service to all my HP- addicted friends here, I took copious notes. The angle of the article was "Breaking the Rules and other business lessons in Harry Potter." >From S/PS: 1. Understand the various cultures in your company. 2. When you own a company, you'd better be sure you're in good company. >From CoS: 3. Initiative is rewarded. 4. Create a nurturing environment. >From PoA: 5. Networking works. 6. When necessary, abandon your business plans. >From GoF: 7. Entrepreneurs triumph over big corporations. 8. Adequate funding is essential. They then analyzed Harry, Ron, Hermione, and Draco as possible entrepreneurs. It was decided that Harry and Hermione would both be good entrepreneurs (with Hermione probably being a little better than Harry), Ron would best be partnered with someone (make a good VP) and Draco would be very successful, but would be best if he built the company and then sold. Achilles heels for them were Harry's tendency to go alone and not pay any attention to others' feelings, Ron's difficulty with leading, Hermione would most likely overwork her employees (she needs to lighten up) Draco is evil. I thought it was very interesting, although the whole "Draco is evil" thing grated a bit on my nerves. I don't think he is evil, just a narrow-minded, spoiled brat. Trina From foxmoth at qnet.com Sun Jan 28 23:36:47 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 23:36:47 -0000 Subject: "There was a ship..." (ship) Message-ID: <952aef+mhhv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11088 The chattering crowd hushes on the entertainment deck, conversations fail, ice cubes clink against the cocktail glasses clutched in suddenly nerveless hands. The sun is setting. Over the wine dark sea the SS Snape/Lily comes gliding on a freezing wind, her torn sails black against the blood-red sky, her mariners ghostly, a single albatross following on wide unwavering wings... Pippin From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 29 00:20:22 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 28 Jan 2001 16:20:22 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The Ship Hits the Fan -A Brilliant post Message-ID: <20010129002022.13825.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11090 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From tigeriz969 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 00:20:28 2001 From: tigeriz969 at yahoo.com (tigeriz969 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:20:28 -0000 Subject: Apology for : Re: Want to play in something new? In-Reply-To: <9529rm+fnvt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <952d0d+5bvl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11091 Aloha, Everyone! I just received an email from the moderator stating that this was advertisement and that I would be kicked out for it if I do it again. I did not realize this because other sites have been passed around so freely so I never thought that this would be any different. I never ment it to truly be one. I know it sounds that way because I just put on my mock 'used car dealer' tone as a joke just to let everyone know of another site. I apologize to anyone else who may be up in arms about it and to not flood the moderator with email regarding this, for, yes, I have now been told. This is also a lesson to anyone else to be careful about what and how you share in here. The prudent thing to do would be to email the moderator with any questions before you do what I did. I was going to just try to get this deleted but then I thought it would be better to share the experience before someone else (especially newbies like me) repeats my 'error'. Take care all! Christy Kwak --- In HPforGrownups at y..., tigeriz969 at y... wrote: > Not getting enough HP action?? > Posting, reading, chatroom, sites still not enough? > Want to be a part of a Hogwarts school? > There is a site that just opened up where you can playact with your > own characters. Since it's new, there is nothing to really catch up > on. They are still looking for teachers, moderators, etc. This a > great chance for those who want to have fun in something new and > still have it in HP land. I know that there are several sites that > are dedicated to this but this is new. You will have to sign up for > an account but it's easy and you can add your own pics and everything! > > http://pub50.ezboard.com/bhogwartsschoolofwitchcraftandwizardry94843 > > You don't have to stick to the book exactly. Just use your > imagination! > I just joined and I am the instructor of the Mystical Creatures class > under the name of Catrina Tygerus. I also am the moderator to > Ravenclaw. I am so excited to be a part of something new! > > If you join, please see the Headmistress and tell her that Prof. C. > Tygerus sent you! Email me if you have any questions! > > Christy From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 29 01:42:03 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 28 Jan 2001 17:42:03 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Defensiveness Message-ID: <20010129014203.1687.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11092 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 29 01:55:36 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 28 Jan 2001 17:55:36 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Audioplays Message-ID: <20010129015536.22680.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11093 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From rlpenar at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 02:04:48 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (rlpenar at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:04:48 -0000 Subject: Buying books from UK Amazon In-Reply-To: <015101c0897b$750330e0$a2448cac@shelley> Message-ID: <952j40+bv30@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11094 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Has any other American tried buying the HP books from UK Amazon? If so, how did you pay? Because I don't have any pound notes lying around, or even a UK bank to draw a cheque from. So ideas and help would be greatly appreciated. : ) > > Rina > ******************************** Hey Rina - Just so happens I ordered UK versions this afternoon. If you want to figure out conversion so you know how much you're spending $1 = 1.4605 pounds right now. I ordered the first 3 books (paperback) with the adult covers and they were $50 American with shipping. They wree $6.99 American each. You can also preorder the 4th book paperback, it comes out 7/6/01. Hope that helps. Becky From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Mon Jan 29 01:31:33 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:31:33 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: H/H Dull & R/H Loads of Fun? (contrarian view) References: <951tkh+mjnf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <027301c08993$37646ca0$874ed63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 11095 ----- Original Message ----- From: > I guess also part of the fun of it for me is that I love a good > romantic comedy. When I read a scene of Ron and Hermione bickering, I > grin because it takes me back to Claudette Colbert and Clark Gable in > It Happened One Night, or for those of you who aren't into the oldies > but goodies, Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks in You've Got Mail (a weaker > example, but the first one I could think of that lots of people may > have seen). The bickering, to me, shows the boiling up of their > feelings for one another. They're still not quite capable of dealing > with the deeper issues of their feelings for each other, so it comes > out as something simpler, more basic. It's a classic representation > of budding romance in modern film and fiction, and one that I enjoy. Some might call it classic, I find it unrealistic and way overdone. Its inevitable on TV and in the movies nowadays that if 2 characters are bickering, they must fall in love. Its been done so many ways so many times! > > So yes, I'd say it's all a matter of perception. Nobody's right or > wrong until JKR says so, and if we're talking about what we'd like to > see instead of what we think will happen, then nobody's wrong, ever. > Unless, of course, they want to match up Ron and Aragog or something - > that's just cruel! It would be such a bore if everyone thought the > same way, wouldn't it? :D I agree with you here...neither is right or wrong, just personal preference. I'm with Penny in that I find constant bickering and all that boiling of feelings is passionate at first, but given time gets stressful and emotionally draining. But its all how we look at the world. Some people thrive on conflict, others avoid it at all cost...neither one is right for everyone. carole From nlpnt at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 02:15:56 2001 From: nlpnt at yahoo.com (nlpnt at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:15:56 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Next steps - correction In-Reply-To: <00aa01c0896b$07c48700$1e3670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <952jos+umc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11096 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Neil Ward" wrote: > Hi everyone, > There was nothing really 'undercover' about the discussion, but since we haven't made a decision, I have deleted some of the messages in question to avoid confusion. > Neil > Moderator Team > > _____________________________________ > Flying-Ford-Anglia > Currently just back from the bodyshop and resplendent in it's new black-and-white paint job with "HPfGU PD" on the doors, I assume! ~:) From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 29 02:18:23 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 28 Jan 2001 18:18:23 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] New member (New York!) Message-ID: <20010129021823.26256.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11097 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From mbrose at akula.com Mon Jan 29 02:45:25 2001 From: mbrose at akula.com (Michelle Brose) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 21:45:25 -0500 Subject: New York get-together In-Reply-To: <980733396.17901.1058.l7@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20010128214525.0147b0c4@akula.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11098 Sounds great, John! By then I should be up to speed with the next two books... I'm eagerly awaiting a delivery from Amazon.com now. Books, my only vice... Michelle From klaatu at primenet.com Mon Jan 29 02:48:07 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:48:07 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] WizardCard In-Reply-To: <20010128213944.15599.qmail@web1005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11099 LOL, Anake! This one really DID make me Laugh Out Loud. Cute!! -----Original Message----- From: Anake [mailto:neptune_1984 at yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 2:40 PM To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] WizardCard This is something I came up with on a whim. Let's just say wizards have credit cards. PS: Some of the prices I just guessed at, except for the wand. The price of the wand I got from Steve's Lexicon site. Please excuse my parody, as I am quite new at parodying stuff from Harry Potter. To tell the truth, this is my first, and if someone else has done something simular, I'm sorry. WizardCard Commercial: Wand from Ollivanders: 7 Galleons (Shows Harry Potter with his new wand. Huge smile on his face. Ollivander in the background, beaming.) A standard set of textbooks: 10 Galleons (Shows Hagrid and Harry in shop buying textbooks) A pet Owl: 15 galleons (Shows Harry and Hedwig) Leaving your worthless caretakers after finding out you're the most famous boy wizard ever: Priceless There's some things Galleons can't buy. For others, use WizardCard. From, Anake ===== "There's no way out of here. It'll be dark soon. There is no way out of here," --Torgo, Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966) ICQ: 37150285, Yahoo: neptune_1984 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 29 02:51:01 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:51:01 -0000 Subject: Shipping and Other HP4GU Debates (long as usual) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <952lql+g76u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11100 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Ebony Elizabeth Thomas" wrote: > > I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences I'm feeling kind of left out here, because I find all the arguing over whether H/H, H/R, H/G, D/G, H/D is 'really going to happen' (and even some of the arguing about which would make the characters happy) quite tedious (I guess that's how people about my repetition of statements about the ships *I* like: such as McGonagall/Hooch, Cho/Cedric, Snape/Draco). But I also find distasteful the no-shipping arguments that assert that things like "they're only 14", "they're going to go through a lot of stuff that can change their personalities, and some of them might die", and "Muggles hardly ever marry someone they met in junior high" are adequate reasons to avoid gossip and speculation. And the argument that 'whatever JKR writes in her books is the way it truly happens' doesn't even qualify as a true statement. > I think Lily and James married young, and I still think Harry's a > nickname. I think Lily and James married young, but some work on timelines indicated that they were class of '76 (I made them '75 in my story for plot purposes -- some of the timing in my story is really quite false) and Harry was born in '80. I think 'Harry' is not a nickname. > 1) I'm a SuperHarry advocate. I am somewhat offended by the argument that Lily having VOLUNTARILY given her life for Harry was not enough to save her from V's curse. I accept that no one else was ever given the OPTION of whether to be killed by V. I believe that there was some kind of prophecy about James and James's son that led V to seek to kill them but not necessarily Lily. I believe that Harry has very strong magic power (as Hagrid says, with his parents, why wouldn't he?) and has the potential to possibly be as great a wizard as Dumbledore. HOWEVER, I am somewhaat offended by Lori's theory that Harry is a special kind of super-wizard that has never existed before, and less than thrilled by Cassie making him a more commonplace type of super-wizard. In other words: Super-Harry = Yuck! > I believe that both Draco and Snape are redeemable in both canon > and fanon. Of course, only V and Lucius are irredeemable in fanon, right? I believe that Snape is redeemable in canon (we've already seen him risking his life and reputation to help the Light Side and/or Dumbledore!) but suspect that Draco is not redeemable in canon. It is very difficult to believe that a person who is only 14 can't possibly change in the whole rest of his life, but I see no evidence that JKR wants him to ever be anything but a cardboard villain. > 3) I identify strongly with Percy. I doubt very seriously that he > will become a Death Eater. I don't expect Percy to become a Death Eater, but I don't identify with him, either. > > 4) I think that there's more to Hermione than brains. We still > don't *completely* know from canon why the Sorting Hat put her into > Gryffindor. We don't *completely* know anyone's soul ever, but we've seen plenty of evidence that she belongs in Gryffindor: courage, desire to help the weak (House Elves, Neville), leadership orientation (criticized as 'bossiness'), desire for glory (like it or not, desire for glory IS part of chivalry, and she shows it by her desire to not just learn everything there is to know, but to get the top grades and be known to get the top grades). > > 6) I'm a small Hogwarts/wizarding world advocate. 1000 students at Hogwarts. Wizarding Britain population between 15,000 and 20,000. > > 8) I love post-Hogwarts fanfics. I prefer MWPP fanfics. From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 29 02:56:07 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 02:56:07 -0000 Subject: Penelope (was: Perspectives in no-shipping....(long) In-Reply-To: <9501r6+imn4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <952m47+is6u@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11101 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., sashibuya at h... wrote: > Agreed there. I'm also a Percy sympathizer. Hey, whatever happened > to Penelope Clearwater? Penelope was the name of Odysseus's wife who waited faithfully for him for twenty years (while he was away having the Odyssey) despite being surrounded by suitors insisting that she marry one of them. If names are meaningful, Penelope is waiting for Percy. Any speculations on that lovely surname Clearwater? Like clear sailing: Percy will not be rocked by storms and shipwrecked on cannibal islands as long as he's with her? From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 29 03:00:33 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 28 Jan 2001 19:00:33 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Getting Shippy With It Message-ID: <20010129030033.2041.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11102 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From catlady at wicca.net Mon Jan 29 03:05:19 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Rita Winston) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:05:19 -0000 Subject: Hermione (was: New member In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20010128165735.01476d3c@akula.com> Message-ID: <952mlf+j6lk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11103 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Michelle Brose wrote: > (Sorry about that, got a little carried away. I identify with > Hermione; I was always the decidedly plain girl who worked her butt > off, got the best grades, got snickered at for it, consequently > developed a social conscience, etc. I want to see the geek goddess > get the guy (without resorting to silicone implants) But she did turn from Ugly Duckling to head-turning Swan at the Yule Ball. That weakens the argument of whoever loves her, loving her for her self rather than for her looks (except, I argue, that Viktor had already asked her to the ball without knowing what she would look like, and had already been pursuing her in the library before she even got her teeth fixed). Me, I was and am homely and bookish and occasionally known to have a social conscience, but I don't identify with Hermione because she is so much better than me. She's courageous and outgoing rather than cowardly and shy. She gets the top grades and resultant approval from teachers; I got the scoldings about not living up to my 'potential'. It irritated me that she ALSO turned beautiful. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 03:12:26 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (harry_potter00 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:12:26 -0000 Subject: Would this violate copyright ??? Message-ID: <952n2q+etv8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11104 Hi you guys! Maybe Heidi or Penny could respond to this... I was wondering if it would be a copyright infringement for my Latin club to us the latin phrase "Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titallandus" on our latin club T-shirts. Also with possibly with our own Harry fan art. The shirts would be sold for $10 each to club members with all the money going into our treasury. We wouldn't actually be making money per se, but I thought that this could possibly be an infringement. Since it relates to Harry it seemed an ok question to ask. If anyone knows you can e-mail me off-list. Thanks Scott From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 03:17:22 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:17:22 -0000 Subject: Shipping and Other HP4GU Debates (long as usual) In-Reply-To: <952lql+g76u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <952nc2+nh7l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11105 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Rita Winston" wrote: > But I also find distasteful the no-shipping arguments that assert > that things like "they're only 14", "they're going to go through a > lot of stuff that can change their personalities, and some of > them might die", and "Muggles hardly ever marry someone they met in > junior high" are adequate reasons to avoid gossip and speculation. > And the argument that 'whatever JKR writes in her books is the way it > truly happens' doesn't even qualify as a true statement. Why are they disasteful? I think all of them are perfectly valid *speculative* arguments. We all are extrapolating a lot when talking about shipping, and filling in our own experiences and preconceptions about relationships. Most of the people saying this are explaining why they don't care to 'ship one ship or another, not telling others that they should not 'ship in general, or discuss shipping. I don't think we really need reasons to avoid gossip and speculation, as isn't this group about thoroughly overanalyzing HP anyway? Plus, if you try doing the older couples (and I would guess that JKR will write in at least one mature romance), the youth arguments don't apply at all. I'm not sure what you mean by the "whatever JKR writes in her books..." argument. Why is it not true? Charmian From pbnesbit at msn.com Mon Jan 29 03:23:22 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:23:22 -0000 Subject: Buying books from UK Amazon In-Reply-To: <015101c0897b$750330e0$a2448cac@shelley> Message-ID: <952nna+fh00@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11106 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Rina Stewart" wrote: > Has any other American tried buying the HP books from UK Amazon? If so, how did you pay? Because I don't have any pound notes lying around, or even a UK bank to draw a cheque from. So ideas and help would be greatly appreciated. : ) > > Rina > ******************************** > "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from > others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who > doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." > --Gillian Anderson > > "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." > --Eleanor Roosevelt > > Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels > Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com > > Rina--I am buying them as we speak. I used my MasterCard--they will not accept it at first. E-mail & tell them that you are who you say you are & that you authorise the use of the credit card. Hope this helps! Parker > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 29 03:34:28 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:34:28 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] OT: PTSD References: <980710713.9837.70315.l6@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <000c01c089a4$6323b420$bcc44b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 11107 Message: 7 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:17:25 +0100 From: Monika Huebner Subject: Re: OT: PTSD On Sun, 28 Jan 2001 09:26:18 -0000, "Jim Ferer" wrote: >You forgot one of the diagnostic criteria: if your attorney tells you >you have it. I know PTSD is real, but I've been soured on it. I handle >lawsuits in my work (the risk management side of safety/risk >management) and I've seen allegations of PTSD from people with a >broken arm. It's God's gift to the plaintiff's bar. And the setting of >diagnostic criteria is not just a sceintific, but an ideological and >political act as well. Yes, of course you are right. In my own profession (working with psychiatrically disturbed children), I see few diagnoses applied in a more haphazard and sloppy way than PTSD. It tends to get automatically slapped on any child where sexual abuse is suspected, no matter how flimsy the pretext. For example, an 18-year-old girl now on my caseload came to me two years ago with a PTSD diagnosis. The reason? - when she was nine years old, her school bus driver was accused (never convicted) of inappropriately fondling another child who rode her same bus. There's no evidence that the driver ever approached her, and this girl has never exhibited any of the symptoms of PTSD in her life, yet carried the diagnosis for seven years until she came to us. That's the most ridiculous example in my experience, yet I know of other cases where abuse undoubtedly took place, yet the child was not traumatized by the experience to the point of developing PTSD symptoms. In other words, PTSD does not of necessity strike every trauma victim. I doubt JKR will bother to induce PTSD in Harry - why should she, when the mere approach of the Dementors create a virtual PTSD within him? - CMC From sashibuya at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 03:28:34 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:28:34 -0000 Subject: Shipping and Other HP4GU Debates (long as usual) In-Reply-To: <3A7425F4.D770E70C@swbell.net> Message-ID: <952o12+8hkg@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11108 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Ebony Elizabeth Thomas wrote: > Charmian asked: > > > > Ebony was making the point that our "shipping" positions (or non- positions as the case may be) may very well affect how we view other aspects of the HP series. She used the 8 above > as examples of positions taken by H/H types, noting that the R/H types on the whole seem to take the opposite approach with respect to her 8 examples. Her thesis is that our > personalities & world view come into play & influence not only how we view the "shipper" debates but virtually all other aspects of the books. I think she's possibly onto something > here. The 8 examples are not exclusive. I'm sure we could come up with lots of other areas. There will, of course, be exceptions to the rule, but the general premise that > shipping positions may be but one component of an overall approach to this series is intriguing I think. Oh, I understand that. I think it's an interesting hypothesis. What I'm interested in how these eight random questions fit together, and with the ships. What underlying interest and preference makes one likely to say, view Harry as possessed of some special power and both support the HH relationship? My theory: since a lot of these questions involve speculating on, from vague clues in the books, how JKR will finishing up certain subplots, we are probably (and I've seen a lot of people do this with Little House on the Prarie here, and another author) comparing it to other books we've enjoyed. That's probably why fanon Draco is so popular and so powerful a characterization. From kathleen at carr.org Mon Jan 29 03:35:33 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 22:35:33 -0500 Subject: No need to get shippy about it... Message-ID: <200101290336.f0T3ajC18074@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 11109 The Good Ship R/H "R/H: It Just Makes More Sense" >From the Quill of Captain Kathy Ebony said: >I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences are directly related to the way we read the books in >general. Everyone on list knows that I'm loudly, obnoxiously, and unashamedly H/H. Really? ;) Never would've guessed. Ebony: >Here's my stance on those issues. What I'm wondering now is how other H/Hers view the positions below, >as opposed to those of other ships and no-shippers. >1) I'm a SuperHarry advocate. I've chimed in on this before, but I really really don't like the SuperHarry idea. It may be where JKR is heading, but I honestly hope not. Like Amy Z , I think that it would negate the message of the series and to me, it would ring false. It may be true that Harry is very talented and could be the next Dumbledore, but I hope it's not because he's an uber-wizard. Ebony again: >2) Although I dislike the Slytherins in canon, I believe that both Draco and Snape are redeemable in both >canon and fanon. Snape, yes. I trust Dumbledore on that one. Draco, I'm not so sure. I used to think maybe he would be redeemable and then I reread CoS-during the part where he said that he hoped Hermione would be the next to die (while Ron and Harry were under the influence of the Polyjuice Potion), it really struck me how nasty he is. Don't get me wrong, I think it's possible, but only if something drastic were to happen. (Cassie did it very plausibly in DD.) I still don't trust him though. Ebony said: >3) I identify strongly with Percy. I doubt very seriously that he will become a Death Eater. I also identify strongly with Percy. And I think his concern over Ron during the Second Task alone is evidence that he really does care about his family. I don't think he'll go all evil, although I think he will find his loyalties and assumptions tested in the future. Ebony said: >4) I think that there's more to Hermione than brains. We still don't *completely* know from canon why >the Sorting Hat put her into Gryffindor. I don't think you'll get much opposition from the Good Ship R/H on this one. (In fact, I think the one things the two ships can agree on is that we love Hermione and want to see her with the right guy-we just disagree over who the right guy for her is!) And I think we have already seen why she is in Gryffindor. Just yesterday I was listening to PoA and the Shrieking Shack scene came up. It occurred to me that Hermione showed incredible bravery in standing up to Professor Snape. ("Professor, it can't hurt to hear what they have to say, can it?") Not to mention the fact that she tried to disarm Snape at the same time Ron and Harry did. Even though she whimpered about it, she still did it. I don't need more proof that Hermione belongs in Gryffindor. I'm already satisfied. Ebony: >5) Ron, at this point, *really* needs to be onstage for a significant portion of Book 5 so that his character >can be developed more. In books 1-2 I grinned at him and said "typical boy"... in books 3 and especially 4 >I really believed he needed to "get a grip". Well, I certainly can't argue against more Ron! But I do think that H/Hers tend to give him a bum rap. Yes, he was at fault, but so was Hermione (in the Crookshanks incident) and so was Harry (in the GoF argument). And, as others have pointed out, Ron really is a loyal friend. But I do agree that he needs to "come into his own", so to speak. Ebony again: >6) I'm a small Hogwarts/wizarding world advocate. I think so too. I have always thought of the Wizarding world (WW) as being somewhat like the Deaf World (DW) , in the U.S. at least. I see a lot of parallels. Both the WW and the DW exist in the context of the larger culture and have dealings with it, but have extensive bonds and culture separate from the larger culture. A huge percentage of Deaf children are born to hearing parents, and learn Deaf culture from Deaf schools and Deaf adults. While we don't know what percentage of wizard kids have Muggle parents, it seems to be a reasonably large amount. And once the wizard kids go off to Hogwarts, they essentially become a part of a separate culture about which their parents know very little and in which their parents can never fully participate. (In my spare time---what little I have when I am not working or checking my email!-I am studying to become an ASL interpreter, so this is based on that. I am sure someone else with a better knowledge of Deaf Culture could either draw more comparisons or tell me why this theory is total rubbish! J) Ebony: >7) I have always thought the Wand Order issue was much ado about nothing. Me, too. I do agree with Penny that the revised passage doesn't read very well, but since I have a copy with the original order, I'll just happily read that and ignore the controversy. Ebony: >8) I love post-Hogwarts fanfics. I do too, but I like at-Hogwarts stuff too. I find them equally interesting in different ways. Ebony: >I also like fanfics that attempt to explain the scientific and cultural features of the magical world. While >shipping fluff and steamy romance fics are all well and good, my favorite fics also deal with explaining >important existential questions that JKR has not dealt with thus far. Even my own soap opera has a lot of >theory-type gobbledygook in the background and in the backstory/outline that has *nothing to do with >shipping*. (That might explain Kathy's "UberFic" theory--the most famous H/H subplot fics really focus >on something besides shipping entirely--H/H is not the cake itself in these fics, just the icing. Well, these are moderately interesting, I guess, though I have to admit I tend to skim through the parts with long, theoretical asides. I prefer character-driven fics and ones that delve into the relationships between and among the characters (and not just romantic ones-I happen to think that Ron and Harry's relationship is very interesting, not in a slashy sense, and part of the reason I started my fic with the Goblet of Fire scene was that I really wanted to get into their argument from another point of view. I also think Harry and Hermione's friendship is interesting (even if I think Harry's boring J) even though I don't think it will develop into a romance.) Ebony again: >So I'll echo Penny here... it's not that the R/Hers are less vocal. Not anymore, at any rate! Ebony wrote: >A few quick points of clarification: >-I started the "destroyer" talk. I'm the only one who used the term. Penny's earlier post checked me >effectively. My apologies. Chalk it up to my man being in uniform... and my own weird and sometimes >culturally-derived sense of humor. We'll be a cruise ship from now on. >--I also started the "disorder" talk. Again, I apologize. My shipmates had nothing to do with it. R/Hers >will be simply "misguided" in the future. For the record, Ebony, I knew you were kidding. I was a little concerned that others wouldn't realize that though, and, as it has been my mission of late to encourage more of my R/H compatriots to post, I wanted to try to preserve the fun-cruise-ship sense the discussion was taking on. HP4GU has, unfortunately and somewhat unfairly, gotten something of a reputation as Not a Safe Place for R/H-ers, and I think it's time to change that. (As evidenced by the recent postings, we're well on our way!) I think this list is such a wondeful group of people and I really value the opinions and insights here (even if some of them are misguided ), so I want everybody to feel welcome, that's all. Ebony wrote: >Not at all, Kimberly--one of my favorite people on list is the R/H captain... she and I both work with kids >and are addicted to fanfiction. So much for the notion of a real war, when we're both "fraternizing with the >enemy" (Ron quote! LOL!) Awww, Ebony, flattery will get you everywhere! You're one of my favorite sparring partners too , and btw I really like your fanfic, even if some of your ideas make my stomach hurt. (And, extra points for quoting Ron!) Cassie wrote: >I do mind cliches, even if they allow my hero to be happy. Like Carole said, it's perfectly possible to have >your hero be happy in an ending that isn't a cliche, and wouldn't that be much better? I know I've already commented on OBHWF as being unlikely in the canon because it's too tidy, but I can also see it happening with a JKR twist. After all, she has manged to take other things that have been beaten into the ground by other writers and give them a new twist-maybe OBHWF will be the same way. Who knows? Christy wrote: >*Panting* Thanks! I usually don't have a problem hanging on but eat enough of those Bott's beans and it >can weigh you down! Aloha all! I join you from the island of Oahu. I can be your graveyard shift in the >crow's nest if you have none. *Salute* Reporting for duty and awaiting orders! Of course! Just watch out for the ghoul up there-he likes to play tricks. Penny wrote:: >What if Harry would be "relieved" if Ron & Hermione got together because he senses that Hermione >likes him, and he either (a) can't imagine what that would do to his friendship with Ron >(so he hopes she'll just hook up with Ron and the whole problem will "go away"), >or (b) likes her back but is resistant for other reasons (such as putting Hermione >in greater danger -- Harry Potter's girlfriend and a mudblood to boot -- she'd be >a prime target, wouldn't she?). Actually, I think the first point has some merit-if Harry did think that Hermione liked him (of which we have seen so evidence), I could see a scenario like that happening. But I still maintain (and I believe even H/Hers agree on this) that there is no evidence that Harry likes Hermione. I would add that I don't see much evidence that he would develop interest in her romantically, but I am sure H/Hers would dispute that. Penny wrote: >But, are there any H/G shippers who are *not* also R/H shippers? Are there >specifically any H/G shippers who are fervently H/G and fervently anti-R/H? That's a good question and better answered by fervent H/G-ers. As for me, I think they would be cute together but I don't think they necessarily belong together the way Hermione and Ron do. I wrote: > Gosh, thanks. You're welcome to visit anytime...as long as you're nice to > Ron. Denigration of Weasleys of any kind will not be tolerated on the Good > Ship R/H. Violators of this rule shall be forced to walk the plank. And Penny replied: >Oh well. I guess I won't be allowed a friendly visit even since I don't believe >Ron (or any Weasley) is perfect and therefore immune from criticism (any more than >Harry or Hermione is). Now, Penny, play fair. J I never said that criticizing Ron or any Weasley for that matter was wrong-we know he's not perfect! But you know my pet peeve is the Ron-is-less-than-Harry (or anyone) argument, and I'm pulling rank as captain and banning that from our ship! Anyone who wants to have a Ron-bashing party is welcome to do it on their own liner. Penny continued: >The H/H Ship: The Ship of Realism, not Fantasy. Maybe >that could be *our* new slogan. :--) (snickers uncontrollably) Sorry.laughing.too.hard..to.write.response. Penny again: >Well .... "burden of proof" is a legal term. Ahem. You all still haven't met >your "burden of proof" to show that Hermione likes Ron back. Sigh.I thought we agreed on that at least, that Hermione's feelings are an unknown. You haven't met the burden of proof to prove that she likes Harry either. What I really meant by my original comment was that, in my experience at least, R/H-ers tend not to have the need to convert others that seems to accompany H/H-ism. (no offense intended to anyone here of course! It's just my observation) Penny wrote: >I hardly think it will show a one-sided column of only Ron being perceptive & >attune to her as a person. One glaring example that leaps to mind is that it was >*Harry* and not stubborn Ron who wanted to make up with Hermione in PoA. He was >perceptive enough to notice how unhappy she was and how tired she looked, knew >she'd acted out of caring concern & approached her in the common room on his own. I didn't mean to imply that Ron was perfectly attuned to her-he is still a boy,after all! And the fact is that we really don't know that Ron didn't notice how unhappy she was in PoA, do we? (Just like we really don't know what he was thinking during the fight with Harry in GoF.) I maintain that Ron would have been feeling guilty and somewhat torn in both instances, even if he didn't know how to show it and was too stubborn to try. Penny again: >He no doubt appreciates the fact that it has been Hermione who was more >steadfastly loyal to him than Ron. And, he most definitely appreciates the help >she gives him with summoning charms & the curses/spells for the 3rd Task. Oh really? And what evidence is there of this? One of the things that annoyed me most in GoF was Harry's lack of realization of Hermione's steadfast friendship. The one perspective we do have in the books is Harry's, and I didn't see him thinking either of the things you have asserted. Jim wrote: >Hermione, like any young woman, wants to be noticed. She definitely wants *Ron* to notice. Is she head >over heels for him? Doubt it. Madly in love? Hardly. But there's *something*. The opposite of love is not >hate, it's indifference. And Hermione is not indifferent. Not surprisingly, I agree. There is something going on there. Penny said: > What I objected to in Trina's message was again relying strictly on evidence that suggests that Ron likes >Hermione & just transferring >reciprocal feelings to Hermione without really analyzing whether that's well-placed or not. And I object to using the Hermione-may-have-feelings-for-Harry argument as a basis for H/H for the same reason. Harry may be boring to me right now, but he's a person too! J First Mate Mo wrote: >Exactly. She challenges his lazy butt and just keeps him from slacking off too much. Without Ron >Hermione would be all work and no play. He also is able to get her to admit when she is wrong. Good observation, matey. I never thought about it that way, but you're right. You know, I think it's kind of amusing that on both the R/H ship and H/H ship, our most compelling (at least to ourselves) arguments are the ones based on feelings ("It just feels right to me"). Which is why trying to convert each other is a pretty pointless exercise, but I still enjoy the debate! But I think Mo's point brings it home for me: that's why I am on the R/H. I like Hermione, I like Ron, and I really like how they are together. Amy Z wrote: >A side note: each one of the books is marked by serious discord in friendships. PS/SS: R&Ha don't even >like Hermione 'til midway through. CoS: Harry is the pariah of the school. PA: Serious conflict btw. Ron >and Hermione, and several weeks where neither boy talks to her. GF: Harry's the pariah again, plus the >conflict with Ron. JKR's creativity in generating and resolving problems with friendships is rivalled only >by her creativity in imagining plausible ways to get rid of DADA teachers. This is a great observation. I think that this is one of the main reasons I love HP so much. Very often, especially in adolescence, we are given the message that friendship is not quite as important as other relationships. But as someone pointed out a while ago (I think it was Ebony), the amount of time that goes into worrying about getting/keeping friends at that age is staggering. The relationships between and among the characters are definitely what keep me coming back to HP. Amy G >Ahoy there! Is there room for one more on the Good Ship R/H? Reporting for >duty Captain Kathy! Of course! Welcome aboard! Karaoke starts on the Lido deck in a few minutes. Amy G again: >Someone else brought up about Ginny probably being Hermione's closest female >friend. It bothers me sometimes that Hermione doesn't seem to have many >female friends. It doesn't seem that she associates much with Lavender or >Parvati. Why do you think it is? Um, if your choice was to hang out with Lavender and Parvati or Harry and Ron, which would you pick? I can identify with that trait of Hermione's very easily: I didn't have many friends at her age, especially girl friends, because most of the girls at my school just weren't interested in the same things I was and just didn't seem to be interested in being friends with me. And Hermione isn't the kind of person who would change just to get people to like her. Unfortunately that's often what people expect at that age. (at least in my experience) Ginny Love: Do you all notice there simply is no V/H ship? (that's Viktor). Hey there, Marketing Director! Yeah, I had noticed that. Does anyone think that H/V is really going to happen, or was it just a device to get Ron's feelings to the surface? In writing my story, I have found that I actually am really enjoying the H/V scenes (maybe because it's nice to have someone who actually appreciates Hermione). I compare Viktor to a guy I worked with when I was in college: he was 10 years older than I was and asked me out, which I found flattering but very creepy (I was only 20 at the time-10 years makes a big difference then, at least it did to me). He may be perfectly nice, but I never got the sense that Hermione was too interested in him romantically. And, for the record, I really like your theory that Ginny's knowledge of Tom Riddle might come in handy later. And I do agree that it could be a link between her and Harry. Ebony wrote: >Good fiction writing is all about "raising the stakes" at strategic points. In all my training as a creative >writer, I can't see how the OBHWF scenario contributes to any stakes-raising. ("Oh, great!" said Harry, >holding Ginny's hand and beaming at Ron and Hermione. "I knew you two liked each other.") It may be >smile-inducing, but it does nothing to raise the stakes. On the other hand, I humbly suggest that H/H >causes an immediate stakes-raising in canon--which is why most non-H/H fans--even so-called no->shippers--are disquieted by the very idea of it. >> And Rina responded: >Well, yes, H/H would raise the stakes. But in it's own way, so would H/R. I'm not sure if it's so much >H/Rs are disquieted by change, so much as they have interpreted scenes and lines in a way that leads them >to H/R. Plus, this is JKR. I don't think she's going to go the easy route on any story or direction this may >take. No matter who Hermione ends up with - Harry, Ron, random guy, or no one - it's almost >guaranteed it will be some big plot thing. She doesn't really do something for absolutely no reason, and I >don't think this would be different. I agree with Rina. As I have pointed out before, I don't think that OBHWF necessarily has to be neat and tidy (*ahem* did I mention "The Best Man" series?), and that JKR is certainly capable of making it interesting. AND, it's true that R/H raises the stakes as well, just in a different way. I, for one, am not "disquieted" by the idea of H/H; in fact, I think it's rather dull and too HGTG . I never understood why H/H-ers think R/H is "the easy way out" or some such. Rina wrote: >Okay, I don't know HOW, but this little bit inspired me to write a scene for a fic. LOL Lovely little >angsty, dramatic action scene followed by Harry saying, "I knew you two liked each other!" I think >Ron snaps back, "Why the hell didn't you tell ME that?" And it definitely raised stakes. LOL Oooo, I want to read this Rina! Ebony (I think) wrote: <<(It's funny that H/H and R/H are so diametrically opposed that both ships would rather see Ron and >Harry slashed than for the other ship to prevail! What?)>> It's not that I would rather see Ron/Harry than H/H; it's just that I think it's more plausible. I see more evidence to support a Ron/Harry pairing than I do for H/H. Rina wrote: >Hey, Captain Kathy, can I be amabassador for the good ship R/H? LOL I don't think there's a pairing I >wouldn't go for. Of course! Make sure to take lots of alcohol when you visit the Uboat noshipper though---sounds like their customs demand lots of libations. I wrote: > Perhaps we should also advertise for a ship's psychologist to help out with all that gentle deprogramming >of H/H-ers? And Kelly responded: >I'll volunteer. I've already stocked up on Professor Lupin's patented "Dementor-Away" brand chocolate. >Works equally well on those chronic symptoms of H/H ship-dom. "Here. Eat it. It'll help..." (Said in my >most Lupinesque voice.) You're on! Hear that, H/H-ers? Counselor Kelley is ready to see you now. Oh, dear, from the cars honking and fireworks going off outside, I am assuming the Ravens just won the Superbowl. (I've been seeing people with purple hair all week.I just can't get into at at all. In fact I went to my parents Superbowl party wearing my team's hat: "Gryffindor Quidditch" And actually, I checked my email in the other room while my relatives all shouted at the TV in the other room. And they laugh at me for laughing out loud at the computer screen when someone posts something funny!) kimberly wrote: >And Ron/Hermione seem like fun to me because neither of them *do* bottle things up - they are both very >up-front with their emotions, and, while volatile, I think it is healthy. When a point of contention comes >up, having a wild row, getting it all out, and then getting over it and moving on to work together toward a >common goal is not a bad thing if that is in your nature, and it seems to be so for both of them. I have been trying to find a book I read right after I got married that postulated that there are 3 basic kinds of marriages: "Calm" (not the word the author used, but that was basically what he/she meant); "Volatile" (that I remember exactly); and "Dysfunctional". This author's position was that only the third type was unhappy. In the Calm type, the partners do just about anything to achieve consensus and very often are uncomfortable with conflict. In the Volatile type, the partners often fight and scream at one another, but then move on. In the Dysfunctional type, the screaming and fighting is about sabotaging each other, not getting things out ing the open. I remember this well because my husband and I most definitaly fall into the second category and I felt it wasn't "right" somehow until I read that and realized that it works for us. People in the first type would probably not feel comfortable with that, but that's okay. Anyway, the point here is that R/H would definitely be the second type. Maybe that's why it appeals to me. Whew, that was really long. What can I say? Just so much good stuff to respond to! Oh, and about the suggestion for the R/H-H/G catamaran, well, if they're floating alongside us we can visit easily, don't you think? A question: are there any R/H-ers who are violently opposed to H/G? Just wondering. It seems like most R/Hers I have talked to have either been fervently H/G along with R/H, or don't really care one way or the other. Long live the Good Ship R/H! Captain Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee who is hoping her subject line doesn't qualify as political From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 03:53:24 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (harry_potter00 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:53:24 -0000 Subject: Shipping Waters... Message-ID: <952pfk+ik69@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11111 Ok I've finally caught up on the messages. I had a little trouble with the big switch but things are fine now! Thanks Penny and Jim! I must say that I've found the shipping debate very interesting, and the boat analogy is quite the hilarious joke. Whilst I'll always be H/H the no-shippers seem to be quite enticing as well. Great margaritas, pychedelic submarines, and Switzerland waters ARE tempting. Especially as the H/H ship preference that I have is mostly post-canon. Anyhow, at least for now I'm firmly planted on the HMS H/H (with a large bottle of sea-sick pills-don't ask). I asked myself what job I had on "The Love Boat" erm, sorry that's the H/H...Can I be the Chef? One who serves both Black Pudding AND Boullubaise (no Ron to refuse the latter...) Now that I've got a job (did you notice that I didn't wait to be appointed) I thought I should ask myself WHY I am a H/H shipper. Well I honestly can't say. I guess that when it comes down to it I just don't like or relate to Ron. (I know that is no excuse) To a certain extent I also think that the character most like me is Hermione and so I want to set her up with the hero. I also see H/H as working out in the long run...Not that I don't agree with Ebony that both relationships will have problems. They are bound to since- "to err IS human". I also agree with Jim (?) that the friendship is more important. In the long term, even if H/H or R/H don't work out the friendship will endure. I mean at fourteen they've already faced more together than many of us face in a lifetime. Not that ordinary situations aren't challenging too, but they've faced death (at least Harry has) and come out on the other side. This will most likely continue in the future. I can't see a lot of the post-canon scenarios happening that have been presented in essays, fanfiction etc. I can however see them as friends when all is said and done. More so if they find other partners, but through thick and thin I hope they will stick together. On another sorta-shippy topic- I don't think that Harry has to marry to become part of the Weasely family. Not to mention OBHWF isn't likely (IMO) either. JKR hasn't gone for the neat "tied up with a bow" endings so far (GoF was by far the darkest, but non of them made everything perfect) and I don't think that the series will end that way either. Scott From Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 04:02:19 2001 From: Slytherin_Daughter at yahoo.com (Ginny Love) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 20:02:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: I Saw Three Ships Come Sailing In. . . Message-ID: <20010129040219.7543.qmail@web11704.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11112 Hi, All- Hrmph. As for my previous speel about Ginny and Tom, I never ment that he actually *told* Gin all about his psycotic plans to take over the world- "Wow, Ginny, soyou like Harry Potter? How funny! My big goal in life is to kill him and his parents. I'm going to start up this cult, see, and I even have a name for the members- Death Eaters! Like it? I've come up with this wicked cool logo for us, too! See the snake coming out of the skull? The snake is 'cause I'm a parslemouth. Didn't I mention that? I think it looks kind of edgy and cool. . ." Er-no. Not at all. What I mean is that she might have some insight into the mind of this man, from the parts of him he 'gave' her as a teenager. Perhaps when he poured some of himself into her, he did give her powers, powers she hasn't found yet. And how *did* she open the Chamber? Harry had to speak Parsletounge to the sink- I don't think they ever touched on how dear little Virgina got in there. . . But no, I don't think she has all these marvelous powers she knows about and is sitting on them. If JK Rowling doesn't have the events in CoS affect future plots, I'll be greatly surprised. Has anyone else thought about what exactly Malfoy would think if he knew about the CoS? That's a pretty big thing to the evil sort-she was *possed* be their lord. I think that might just come into play later, too. On that same note- have you given any thoughts to the fact that perhaps that bit of Riddle in her could turn Ginny bad? It might have future effects of the nastier sort. I doubt that she would stay evil, but that might be a twist-she joins their side for some reason. On a *much* lighter note- Maybe the motto for the H/G ship could be something about "Black and White and Red all Over"? just a thought. Hi! Thanks for the compliment! Defending Ginny is what I live for! Ginny Love ----------------------------------------------------- R/H: It Just Makes Sense H/G: You Got A Better Idea? ----------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 29 04:08:19 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 04:08:19 -0000 Subject: Mad Eye Moody, a filk In-Reply-To: <94uu1k+ltl1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <952qbj+3b9f@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11113 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Angela B" wrote: > Bowing to the master, Caius Marcus, I humbly present a filk song > > Mad Eye Moody (to the tune of "This Old Man") > LOL! A filk which maintains constant vigilance to quality! - CMC From karob_7 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 05:52:34 2001 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (karob_7 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:52:34 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Neville Longbottom Message-ID: <9530f2+l7lc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11114 Following in the honored tradition begun by John (with slight adjustments) CHARACTER SUMMARY: Neville Longbottom aka `Giant Canary' NAME: Neville ? basically means `new town' ? a fact that probably gives no insight into his character; of course he could be named after Neville Chamberlain. Longbottom ? Er, no comment. AGE: Same as Harry, so around 15 by the end of GoF DESCRIPTION: Frequently called "round-faced boy." McGonagall notices his cloak is fastened under his ear when she tells them to smarten themselves up for the Sorting. Pansy Parkinson calls him a "fat little cry-baby" in PS/SS. He wears fluffy slippers (PoA). ON-SCREEN TIME: Quite a bit in PS/SS, hardly at all in CoS, and some in PoA and GoF. There's really just too much to mention it all ? see Personality, Good Qualities, Bad Qualities, etc. for the highlights. PERSONALITY: Timid and insecure, yet loyal. SPECIAL ABILITIES: He's good at Herbology. OBSESSIONS: None, really ? except perhaps his fear of Snape, which leaves him unable to think coherently whenever Snape is present. GOOD QUALITIES: Loyalty and Bravery -In PS/SS he sneaks out of Gryffindor Tower to warn Harry and Hermione that Draco is trying to get them in trouble. -Also in PS/SS, he stands up to Harry, Ron, and Hermione when they are going to get the Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone so that they don't get themselves or Gryffindor in any more trouble. -He takes on Crabbe and Goyle single-handed while Ron fights Draco after Draco provoked Ron at a Quidditch Match (PS/SS) -He visits his parents regularly even though they don't recognize him (GoF). -He doesn't tell anyone about his parents ? he doesn't seem to want pity. -He seems to have had much less of a struggle getting a date for the Yule Ball than did Harry or Ron (GoF). -He's very upset every time he loses Trevor. Sense of Humor (at least a slight one): -He laughs at himself when he turns into a canary. -He appreciates Professor Boggart Snape as much (or more) than anyone else does (PoA). Willingness to Admit His Weaknesses/Mistakes: -He confesses he's the one who wrote down all the passwords in PoA. -He says he's almost a squib (CoS). -He says his Gran knows he forgets things (PS/SS). Forgiving: -After the Norbert incident, in which it seemed Harry and Hermione thought it was funny that he got in trouble as well, and after he had to serve that terrifying detention with them, he doesn't seem to hold it against them. BAD QUALITIES: Forgetful: -He's always forgetting passwords. -He never knows where Trevor is. -He never can get the ingredients in the right order for Potions. -He runs off wearing the Sorting Hat just after he's been Sorted into Gryffindor. -He has a Remembrall. -He lost his booklist (PoA). Clumsy: -He falls off his broom and breaks his wrist in his first-ever flying lesson. -He falls on his way to the stool to be Sorted. -He crashes into Ron, sending them both sprawling into a suit-of- armor when they're trying to get away from Filch. -He steps on Ginny's feet fairly often at the Yule Ball. -He breaks two teacups his first day of Divination. Easily Frightened: -He's absolutely terrified of Snape. -He sends up red sparks when Draco startles him in the Forbidden Forest. -He's afraid of the Bloody Baron, and to stay in the corridor alone at night. -He runs from his hippogriff in Care of Magical Creatures. Easy Prey: -Draco puts the Leg-Locker Curse on him. -Hermione puts the full Body-Bind on him. -He eats one of Fred and George's Canary Creams. RELATIVES: Gran: His formidable Grandmother, who brought him up. Frank Longbottom: His father, formerly an Auror, in St. Mungo's, insane as a result of being attacked by Death Eaters and subjected to the Cruciatus Curse. Neville's mother: Also in St. Mungo's, insane, due to the Cruciatus Curse. Great Uncle Algie: Tried to force magic out of Neville ? pushed him off Blackpool Pier, and later dropped him out of an upstairs window. Likes meringues. Bought Neville his toad when Neville got accepted to Hogwarts. Great Auntie Enid: The reason Neville bounced down the garden and into the road. She offered Algie the meringue that made him drop Neville. QUESTIONS: Why is he so forgetful? Why is he so terrified of Snape? Why doesn't anyone seem to know about his parents? Will he be Professor of Herbology at Hogwarts when he graduates? Does he have any really close friends? Is he a second Peter Pettigrew? Will he betray Harry? Or will he be loyal? Will he make it through the series alive? ***** Karin http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic/?action=directory- authorProfile&userid=23923 From karob_7 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 05:53:57 2001 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (karob_7 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:53:57 -0000 Subject: Chapter 28 Summary: The Madness of Mr. Crouch Message-ID: <9530hl+g7ts@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11115 Chapter 28, The Madness of Mr. Crouch This chapter begins with Harry, Ron, and Hermione visiting the Hogwarts kitchen to present Dobby with socks in gratitude for his help with Harry's Second Task ? not to mention to obtain food to send to Snuffles. When they arrive, they discover that Winky is in a very bad state ? tattered and beyond tipsy. She wants to go back to Mr. Crouch. Harry asks her if she knows what Crouch is up to, as he hasn't been turning up at the Triwizard Tasks and the rumor is that he is ill. Winky says Crouch needs her, because she is keeping a very important secret for him. Ashamed of Winky, the other House-elves hide her away, and Hermione gives them a lecture on their rights. The result of this is that the House-elves send them away (but not without plenty of food, of course). That night, Ron and Hermione get on Harry's nerves, and he goes to the owlery to send Sirius the food they've gotten for him. He stays for a while and watches an eagle owl fly around the owlery and sees Hagrid and Madame Maxime having a short chat. It seems Hagrid still doesn't want to have much to do with her. The next morning, Hermione eagerly awaits her copy of the Daily Prophet. Instead, she receives all sorts of nasty letters from people who are angry with her because of Rita Skeeter's article in Witch Weekly. One of the letters contains bubotuber pus, which burns Hermione's hands, and she has to go to the hospital wing and misses Herbology and part of Care of Magical Creatures. In Care of Magical Creatures class, Hagrid has them hunting leprechaun gold with Nifflers, fluffy black creatures that like sparkly things and are good treasure detectors, though too much of a nuisance to keep as pets. Hermione shows up in the middle of class. Ron's Niffler finds the most gold, and he receives a chocolate bar as a prize. Leaving class, Ron gets angry at Harry because Harry didn't tell him the leprechaun gold Ron had used to repay him for the omnioculars had vanished as all leprechaun gold does. Harry points out that he had more important things to think of at the time, and Ron says he hates being poor. Hermione swears to get revenge of Rita Skeeter. Harry gets tired of telling people Hermione's not his girlfriend. Hermione checks with Moody to see if Rita might have been using an Invisibility Cloak, but he says she wasn't. Harry suggests maybe she's got Hogwarts bugged, and Hermione explains that the magic has bad effects on things like electricity. Ron receives an irritated reply from Percy about Mr. Crouch, saying he hasn't seen him but receives letters of instruction from him. Mrs. Weasley sends Easter eggs. Ron's and Harry's are rather large; Hermione's is tiny ? Mrs. Weasley reads Witch Weekly. The summer term starts, and the time comes for the champions to learn about the third task. They meet on the Quidditch field, which is now overgrown with hedges. The third task will be a maze, complete with creatures provided by Hagrid and spells to get through. The first person to touch the Triwizard Cup will win. Harry and Cedric will have a head start, as they are in first place. After the task is explained, Bagman tries to give Harry more help, but Krum wants to speak with Harry, and the two of them walk towards the Forbidden Forest, talking of Hermione. Harry assures Krum that he and Hermione are just friends, though Krum is not easily convinced. They compliment one another on their flying and Quidditch skills, and then Mr. Crouch staggers out from the trees, unshaven, ashen, his robes ragged and bloody. He is muttering and gesturing, and apparently thinks he's talking to "Weatherby." In a moment of what Harry believes is clarity, Crouch asks for Dumbledore. Krum hangs back from them. After asking Harry, "You're not his?" and "Dumbledore's?" Crouch begins his muttering to the tree he thinks is Weatherby again. He also talks about his son, about Bertha. He says it's his fault, mentions Harry, and says the Dark Lord is stronger. Harry leaves a displeased Krum with Crouch while he goes to find Dumbledore. Snape finds Harry outside of Dumbledore's office and tells him Dumbledore is busy. After a bit of arguing, Dumbledore comes out of his office, and when he hears what Harry has to say, asks Harry to lead the way, leaving Snape standing behind, angry. When they get back, no one is there. After looking around a bit, they find Krum, stunned. Dumbledore wakes him, and he says "the old madman" attacked him from behind. Hagrid and Fang arrive, and Dumbledore sends them to fetch Karkaroff. As Dumbledore is telling Hagrid to find Moody next, Moody arrives, says Snape told him what was going on. Moody goes looking for Crouch in the forest, and Karkaroff arrives ? very angry. He says it is treachery and blames Dumbledore. Hagrid stands up for Dumbledore, who sends him off with Harry to Gryffindor Tower ? with orders to save any letters that need to be written till morning. Hagrid fusses at Harry about going off with Krum, says it's better not to have anything to do with foreigners. Harry brings up Madame Maxime, and Hagrid gets mad. In the Common Room, Harry fills Ron and Hermione in on what's happened. QUESTIONS: Is the eagle owl Harry sees from the owlery important? Why is Hermione so bent on getting revenge on Rita Skeeter? Why is Molly Weasley so willing to believe the worst of Hermione? What do Krum's questions for Harry imply about Hermione? About the advancement of the Hermione/Krum relationship? About her feelings for Harry? Harry's for Hermione? How does Snape's stalling Harry affect things? What is with Hagrid's attitude about foreigners? Is it just that he's angry at Madame Maxime? ***** Karin From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 29 05:39:43 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:39:43 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Netiquette tips (please read) Message-ID: <00b301c089b5$e20f18e0$163370c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 11116 NETIQUETTE TIPS This is a very high-volume list, so it?s important that members observe a few rules to help us all navigate through the ocean of messages and avoid any passing ships if we so wish . Members, new and old, are requested to observe certain rules of ?netiquette? and good practice, as outlined below. Bear in mind that the Moderators are standing over you, flexing their wands and eyeing up that box of Howlers sitting in the corner of the cyber-office. If you break the rules too often, you may get an advisory message from us and, if you?re really, really naughty, you may end up being turned into a ferret and getting bounced. Consider yourselves warned! [Moderators exit, stage left, cackling?] ****** **Virgin posters Read a few days' worth of messages before posting your own. You can do this either by "lurking" (reading messages, but not writing them) for a few days, or by going back through the most recent messages (a daunting task, with such an active group). This way, you'll get a "feel" for the group, and you can make sure you're not repeating something that has been posted recently by someone else. If you ask burning questions in your first post, make sure you indicate that extra content in the heading and don?t just call it ?Hi from a newbie!?. Now, please read the rest of our tips? **OT Political posts IMPORTANT NOTE: Political opinion posts are banned for the moment. OT discussions crept in during the recent US elections and some people were offended by the comments of others, so we think it?s best to avoid this sensitive OT area altogether. Thanks for cooperating with us on this. **Keep the subject line relevant to the content of the post Message board conversations, like "real life" ones, will often drift from one subject to another. If the subject line does not change to fit the direction of the conversation, it can frustrate the reader. When replying to a message, please take the time to check the subject line and make sure it still matches your post. For example, if the subject line says: "RE: Who's going to die in the next book?" and the topic has segued into a character matchmaking debate (with no mention of death), it's time to change the subject line! **Keep your posts on topic In such a large and active group, it's easy to let discussions go off on tangents. If a couple of you find something in common other than Harry Potter, wonderful! Getting to know people is, perhaps, the best thing about clubs. But if you find your discussion getting away from the main point of the club, please continue it off-list. **One-line and ultra-short posts As our message volume is very high, one-line posts can push the numbers through the roof, so please take a moment to consider the following:- * Consider expanding on your point. For example, if you are posing a question about the HP books (?What about so-and-so??), could you add some thoughts of your own to lead off any discussion? * Consider combining your shorter points/responses with a few others in a multi-topic post, making sure the topic line indicates this. However, if your point is substantive (or just plain lengthy), it is best to give it space on its own to make the thread easier to follow. * Try to avoid ?me too!? and ?LOL!? posts that have absolutely no other content. * Sometimes a brief response is perfectly acceptable; for example, if you are correcting an error someone has made and do not have much else to say (e.g. ?You cannot apparate into Hogwarts!?) or giving information that you don't want to bury in another message ("The link to that article about Dumbledore's socks is at http://www.anyoldwebsite.com"). **Response posts If you are replying to a message, please indicate the name of the person who wrote the original and include any relevant segments of their post, or a brief summary of their point(s). At the same time, please try to delete any parts of the original post that are not relevant to your point(s), especially if the original was really long! Remember, also, that if you respond in a fresh post rather than using the ?reply? button, your response will not appear in the ?replies to this message? in any search. In general, if someone asks a question with a unique answer, please try to check through the message headers to see if anyone else has responded to it before posting the answer. It's understandable that several people may dash off a response just after the original message, but there should be no need for further posts after that. **Take the time to proofread your posts If you're used to forums where speed is important (chat rooms, role playing games, etc.), it's easy to fall out of the habit of proofreading. Here, however, your post will be as relevant in five minutes (or, usually, even in five hours) as it is now. Before hitting the 'send' button, please take a few minutes to look over your post and correct any typos, spelling/punctuation errors, or problems with sentence structure or capitalization. This will make it much easier to read and help in getting across your point. Please avoid using all lower case letters or, worse still, all CAPITAL LETTERS. **Be considerate of other members' feelings If you disagree with someone's message, no matter how strongly, remember to respect the other person's right to his or her own opinion. If you do wish to refute the post, do so gently, by building up your own case, rather than knocking down the other person's. And never attack your fellow club members (name calling, personal remarks, etc). Thanks. >From your Magical Moderators (hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com) _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 29 06:33:41 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 06:33:41 -0000 Subject: Quiz results! In-Reply-To: <94lak3+9sm0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9532s5+fota@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11117 here's how I cam out > > # 1 Ravenclaw - smart, intellectual > # 2 Slytherin - cunning, ambitious, machiavellian > # 3 Hufflepuff - patient, hardworking, loyal > # 4 Gryffindor - brave, bold, daring > > I hate to say it.. but this is spot on! Smart, ambitious... not very > brave i admit! > > Heather M. 1) Gryffindor 2) Ravenclaw 3) Slytherin 4) Hufflepuff Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Mon Jan 29 06:46:12 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 06:46:12 -0000 Subject: Female Archetypes In-Reply-To: <3A732A4B.758484BF@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9533jk+cnfi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11118 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > Dave Hardenbrook wrote: > > > For me, Ginny and Cho represent the two ultimate archtypes for the female sex (at least in my experience): > > > > The "Cho Changs" are bright, gregarious, charismatic, usually have a great sense of humor, and are of course popular. Unfortunately, they are also frequently somewhat shallow, > > flighty, and almost > > always have crummy taste in men. > > I don't know that I would put Cho into this category honestly. She does seem bright, gregarious & charismatic. But, she seems to have a quiet side as well. She definitely doesn't > seem shallow or flighty. > > > The "Ginnys" are shy, quiet, pensive, awkward and not popular. They are usually the ones possessing true courage, passion (however latent), and strength of character, but they > > frequently get lost and unnoticed (especially by boys) in the sea of extroverted "Chos". > > I was definitely a "Ginny" in high school. Perhaps that's why I have such little sympathy for her. :--) Although, I must also point out that Ron said in CoS that Ginny "usually > never shuts up." Do we as readers have the perception that she's a shy wallflower because that's how Harry perceives her? > > > (I apologize to all women who don't fit into one of the above... It's strictly a generalization based on personal experience.) > > It's a *big* generalization Dave. Where does Hermione fit into your equation? Minerva McGonagall? What about Molly Weasley? Molly is hardly a shy wallflower type after all. > But, she's not shallow & vapid either. > > Penny Oh my goodness, these are not female archetypes..they are a misguided and awful attempted to place women into two and only two categories... Which is ridiculous..women fall into a multitude of categories just as men do.. this reminds me of the Indo-Europeans..when they invaded Crete/Greece they tried to divest the pre-patriarchal Goddesses of their complexity and make them into, maiden, virgin, whore, mother, crone.. real women are very complex..... Oh goodness, that was a very misogynist post Susan From summers.65 at osu.edu Mon Jan 29 08:37:44 2001 From: summers.65 at osu.edu (summers.65 at osu.edu) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 03:37:44 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 516 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11119 Rita sez: HOWEVER, I am somewhaat offended by Lori's theory that Harry is a special kind of super-wizard that has never existed before, and less than thrilled by Cassie making him a more commonplace type of super-wizard. In other words: Super-Harry = Yuck! Well, it is just a theory. No need to get offended. Lori ************************************************** Lori "How Much Would You Pay" Summers "That Hieronymous Bosch. What a weirdo." --Crowley, "Good Omens" Last movie seen: "McClintock" Discman's spinning: New Age Celtic compilation Nighttable: "Icebound" by Dean Koontz *************************************************** From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 29 09:44:39 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (Snuffles MacGoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:44:39 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagi vs transfigeration Message-ID: <01C08A34.5274E960.msmacgoo@one.net.au> No: HPFGUIDX 11120 Marvin said: Here's a question; what happens when a really complicated person becomes an animagus? Might they turn into a magical hybrid beast such as a hippogriff? Maybe an aloof, highly intellectual sort of person would end up transforming himself into something like a centaur, unable to fully rid himself of his or her hyperanalytical, human-all-to-human side... Oh I love this idea! I want to be a phoenix (there's hubris for you!) Hmmmm, McGonagall turns into a cat - she's pretty in her head kind of person it seems to me, cats are not renowned as in their head kind of creatures (sorry Susan, Rita, there was an animal special on the other day - they said cats are dumb. My Rosa and Sammuela don't believe it of course). I don't know, test it out with a few others, Rita Skitter, Snuffles himself ... and let me know what you think. Btw, what house do you think Rita Skitter was in? drpam said: A very interesting point. I need some time to chew this one over. But immediately what comes to mind is Krum in the Second Task in GoF. Remember, when his tranforms?/transfigures? himself into a half-man/half-shark. Does this qualify as a transfiguration charm? A poor attempt at becoming an animagi? I'm flashing back to PoA when Lupin says that nasty accidents can occur during animagical transformations--who put Krum back to rights? Did he do it himself? Did Karakoff help? Was it a job for Madam Pomfrey? And if it is, as you say (and I believe as well, now) an expression of your inner self, what does it mean that Krum became a shark? I don't think it bodes well for him as a character, though I was rather hoping he would turn out to be a rather nice guy. Jo actually says that Krum attempts a transformation charm. So I think that rules out a Animagus. I think the spell would have worn off, it's a easier thing, maybe it undoes itself. I think (again, no great evidence) that Animagus is a more complex spell and longer lasting (perhaps until specifically thrown off). If you don't have the 'what ever you need' to make the spell work, I don't think you are going to find 'what ever you need' to throw it off. Can't think of a good sporting (or music) metaphor here sadly. drpam whose husband is out with the girls and the in-laws and whose baby is asleep, leaving her gloriously alone for an hour or two... Sounds good storm -----Original Message----- From: Pam Hugonnet [SMTP:pbarhug at tidalwave.net] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 6:46 AM To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [HPforGrownups] Animagi vs transfigeration Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > WARNING I have no cannonical evidence for the following, I just *thunk* it > > Ok, I think there is a difference, I think it has to do with skill level and > probably indicates different level of attributes while in non-human form > > I think that transfiguration is easier and can change anything to anything > (porcupine to pin cushion, desk to pig for example, with the phonetically > allied words appearing easier. You might change yourself as part of this spell, > storm to dog, or cat, or Siamese fighting fish for example. > > animagus would appear to be a *true* expression of your self. (to me), akin to > the 'true name' concept (as I understand it) in that you can only have one and > you don't get to choose it. I think it's a more 'natural' transformation > because its an expression of yourself, requiring less energy to maintain > (though more skill to execute). > > You know how some people are just skilled in some things. Think about watching > a child who is 'naturally' talented on the hockey field, or playing the violin > or what ever and place a 'normally gifted' child next to them. With practice > the second child might get really good but they will never have that 'natural' > grace of the first child. Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 29 10:27:46 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:27:46 -0000 Subject: Buying books from UK Amazon - Correction In-Reply-To: <952j40+bv30@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11121 Becky wrote: "Just so happens I ordered UK versions this afternoon. If you want to figure out conversion so you know how much you're spending $1 = 1.4605 pounds right now." The exchange rate is 1 UK Pound = 1.46 US Dollars at the moment. So if ordering from the UK add half again onto the quoted price (so if price is ?6 then you get 6+3 = 9 Dollars, true conversion gives you 8.76) and you obtain (roughly) the price in US Dollars (it will give a slightly higher price in dollars than the true figure, but is a lot easier to do in your head). Simon (putting his mathematics to good use, while avoiding doing any of his work) From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 29 10:44:11 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:44:11 -0000 Subject: Offended by super-wiz theories? (was "Re: Digest Number 516") In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <953hhr+f6je@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11122 Lori wrote: "Rita sez: HOWEVER, I am somewhaat offended by Lori's theory that Harry is a special kind of super-wizard that has never existed before, and less than thrilled by Cassie making him a more commonplace type of super- wizard. In other words: Super-Harry = Yuck!" and responded: <<>> A couple of things here... Firstly, Rita, if you were somewhat offended by these fanfic (and shipping) theories, it may be time for you to hop up onto Dr Ford Anglia's comfy couch for a session. I'll take you back to the Marauders' era in my special Potter-holosuite and salve you with cups of herbal tea . However, I hope you just meant that you "disagree heartily" with these views. Secondly, Lori ? tsk, tsk - forgot to change the header from "Digest Number 516" to something like "Catlady: calm yourself, girlfriend!". Seriously folks, please remember what we've said many times now about being specific in your headers. Thanks. Neil Mechanimagus Moderator From john at walton.to Mon Jan 29 10:48:25 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:48:25 +0000 Subject: New York Get-Togethers planned for March & April Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11123 Hello all, In chat and email last night, the New York branch of HPFGU decided that we're going to meet up with representatives of the Detroit Branch (Ebony, on Friday 13th April, aka Good Friday) and the London Branch (Neil, around the 20th/21st/22nd of March, perhaps earlier) in New York City. It's likely to involve dimsum and possibly a bit of a city tour. Anyone who's not Jim Ferer, Voicelady, Ebony, Neil or me (including Michelle B!) who hasn't said "I'll be there!" please email me offlist to say you'll be there! Preliminary suggestions are for meeting at the clock/information booth in Grand Central. Guess we'll have to carry signs or wear witches hats or something. Well, that can be worked out later :D --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Jan 29 11:06:59 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 06:06:59 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Would this violate copyright ??? References: <952n2q+etv8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A754ED3.1DF9A709@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 11124 I am answering this on the list in case other people (a) see this & get the same idea, or (b) are in the process of doing something similar. It could come under copyright infringement if you use the logo that's been in the UK books & on the WB clothing, just by using it - you don't have a fair use defense, whereas if you were using it in a Latin classroom to just hang on the wall, you might. But since you're selling the shirts, even if it's only to club members, it would also likely be trademark infringement - if my memory is correct, WB has a trademark application for the slogan. In sum, it's risky to use it. harry_potter00 at yahoo.com wrote: > Hi you guys! > Maybe Heidi or Penny could respond to this... > I was wondering if it would be a copyright infringement for my Latin > club to us the latin phrase "Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titallandus" on > our latin club T-shirts. Also with possibly with our own Harry fan > art. > > The shirts would be sold for $10 each to club members with all the > money going into our treasury. We wouldn't actually be making money > per se, but I thought that this could possibly be an infringement. From neptune_1984 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 13:08:54 2001 From: neptune_1984 at yahoo.com (Anake) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 05:08:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Newsflash: HP trailer NOT to be shown at SuperBowl Message-ID: <20010129130854.7072.qmail@web1004.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11125 > > Thank you, thank you, thank you, John, for saving me from HOURS of tedious > viewing for 30 seconds of pleasure!! > > Ande ::sob:: Not me. I watched all hours of the Super Bowl (saw some good commercials) and even watched Survivor: The Outback for the HP Trailer. My parents thought I was crazy. There was one time when the Warner Bros. logo appeared on the screen. My heart skipped a beat, but it was only for a John Travolta movie. From, Anake ===== "There's no way out of here. It'll be dark soon. There is no way out of here," --Torgo, Manos: The Hands of Fate (1966) ICQ: 37150285, Yahoo: neptune_1984 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Mon Jan 29 13:29:46 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (Caius Marcius) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:29:46 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius Sirius Sirius Black (filk) References: <980757946.497.89143.l10@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <001201c089f7$8c986960$41dd4b0c@cq5wu> No: HPFGUIDX 11126 Sirius Sirius Sirius Black (from PoA, Ch. 10) (To the tune of Billy-A-Dick -BTW, the song is by Hoagy Carmichael. Bette Midler, who always does a superb job with 40s pop, sang it in the 1991 film For the Boys.) http://www.ballroomdancers.com/Music/Dances/quickstep.htm (THE SCENE: The Three Broomsticks tavern, in the village of Hogsmeade, doing a brisk business. Seated at a table are CORNELIUS FUDGE, REBEUS HAGRID, MINERVA McGONAGALL & PROF. FLITWICK. Beneath the table, shielded with his invisibility cloak is HARRY POTTER. MADAM ROSEMERTA is bringing a drink order to the table, and has stopped to chit-chat) ROSMERTA (spoken): So what brings you to this neck of the woods, Minister? FUDGE (music): Ten times mean as Pat Buchanan Black escaped from Azkaban, an' His guards heard him say That he'd be Hogwarts- bound Long ago, Black was to be the Secret-Holder For Lilly and James as they hid from the Volder But believe or not, he joined You-Know-Who's plot Both his best friends he would betray ALL (except HARRY) Sirius Sirius Sirius Black Mysterious blackguard will attack If imperious Dementors can't prevent Him from ever comin' back FUDGE Black tried to flee, but poor Peter the P. Tried to do what he thought he must But in the midst of a road, Black made him explode All that was left of him was dust ALL Peter Dust! ALL (except HARRY) Sirius Sirius Sirius Black Mysterious blackguard will attack If imperious Dementors can't prevent Him from ever comin' back HAGRID AND FLITWICK He will kill kill kill with his Dark Arts McGONAGALL & ROSMERTA Break break break Ma Pettigrew's heart ALL (except HARRY) Black we know wants to murder Harry And bring Lord Voldemort to power back! HARRY (aside) Sirius Sirius Sirius Black Delirious thoughts my brain attack He gave an inside view to You-Know- Who, Then Mom and Dad got whacked! I feel hate hate hate when they mention him I burn burn burn to be avengin' him Black, you better have some good protection And make extra sure Voldy's watching your back! ALL Sirius Sirius Sirius Black Sirius Sirius Sirius Black Sirius Sirius Sirius Black We're going to get him, that's a fact Jack! - CMC (27% Obsessed - Sorted to Ravenclaw) From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Mon Jan 29 13:34:14 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:34:14 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Snape commentary Message-ID: <01c089f8$2bc50200$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11127 > I see four possibilities: > >1. Snape and Lily were both Muggle-borns. >2. Petunia is either a squib or a "repressed" witch. >3. Lily's mum married twice. >4. Lily and Snape were beloved cousins. > >Number 3, : In this scenario, Lily's >mum first married one Caligula Snape, an arch-Muggle who belonged >to three whites-only country clubs and was a speechwriter for the Nixon >administration (he coined that little remark about grabbing people by >the such-and-such). By this union came Petunia Snape (a Muggle) >and a future Potions master named Severus. Then Lily's mum came to >her senses and divorced Caligula (she got custody of Petunia and Caligula >got custody of Severus, who inherited his father's sensitivity and charm). >Then she married a much nicer Muggle, and they had Lily. I love this theory, especially the part about Severus's father ... it explains a lot. Anyway, - would two Muggles call their son "Severus"? It sounds like a typically magical name; - I believe Snape was in Slytherin (though it's not clearly stated anywhere), and I also have the impression that a 100% Muggle-borns are not accepted there, only pure wizards like Malfoy or - at were least - half-Muggles like Riddle. But perhaps Severus's dad was a wizard who wanted to use his talent for speech-writing? That's a sort of thing you can't do in wizarding world... Monika Z. (A fanatic Snape-fan) From rlpenar at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 13:43:41 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (rlpenar at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:43:41 -0000 Subject: Buying books from UK Amazon - Correction In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <953s2d+c99s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11128 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Simon" wrote: > Becky wrote: "Just so happens I ordered UK versions this afternoon. If you > want to figure out conversion so you know how much you're spending $1 = > 1.4605 > pounds right now." > > The exchange rate is 1 UK Pound = 1.46 US Dollars at the moment. > > So if ordering from the UK add half again onto the quoted price (so if price > is ?6 then you get 6+3 = 9 Dollars, true conversion gives you 8.76) and you > obtain (roughly) the price in US Dollars (it will give a slightly higher > price in dollars than the true figure, but is a lot easier to do in your > head). > > Simon (putting his mathematics to good use, while avoiding doing any of his > work) Sorry, I was watching the Superbowl at the time, that's what I meant :o) Becky From brandgwen at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 13:49:48 2001 From: brandgwen at hotmail.com (brandgwen at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 13:49:48 -0000 Subject: The Truth About Cats and Dogs Message-ID: <953sds+ofj1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11129 Just a bit of a muse... >From several different sources, I've heard theories regarding the hidden meaning behind cats. Basically, they seem to be "watchers", whose purpose is to monitor situations and, in some cases, alter their course. Sly protectors, or something like that. Examples include Crookshanks, McGonagal and Mrs. Figgs' cats. So, if cats are so special, why not dogs? We seem to have a few of them - Sirius, Lupin and Aunt Marge's lot. Certainly, these are more aggressive beasts (although Crookshanks could give them a run for their money). They seem to be more instinctive and have less self control. Perhaps these are the obvious dragons at the gate, rather than the stealthy ones. So, here's my wondering... What role or significance do you think canines might have to the story? If they are indeed "watch-dogs", what on earth might Ripper be watching? End muse, Gwen. The world can move or not by changing some words. -Toby, The West Wing. From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 14:04:02 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:04:02 -0000 Subject: OT: PTSD In-Reply-To: <000c01c089a4$6323b420$bcc44b0c@cq5wu> Message-ID: <953t8i+fq11@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11130 Yes, of course you are right. Caius Marcius:"In my own profession (working with psychiatrically disturbed children)..." You deserve a medal the size of a dinner plate. I honor you. "...I see few diagnoses applied in a more haphazard and sloppy way than PTSD. It tends to get automatically slapped on any child where sexual abuse is suspected, no matter how flimsy the pretext." Right up there with "suppressed memories", I suppose. It's victim psyhcology, which was one of "ideological acts" I was thinking about in setting diagnostic criteria. To bring it back to Harry Potter where it started, I never said he would have "PTSD" in any kind of clinical, diagnostic sense. What I do say is he's going to be beat up pretty badly in the War to come, and he's going to pay a heavy price. You don't need any diagnostic criteria for that. From anglinsbees at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 14:31:54 2001 From: anglinsbees at yahoo.com (Ellen & John Anglin) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:31:54 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It- Mercenaries approach! In-Reply-To: <20010129030033.2041.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <953usq+acea@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11131 Ok, scuze me if this has been done already..... From far over the softly glowing horizon, a speck appears. As dawns rosy fingers brighten the morning sky, the speck revelas itself more clearly, tall masts silouetted against a sky rapidly turning blood red. Striped sails snap in the morning breeze, and a murmer spreads through the crowds of watchers as the sharp of eye spot an inky banner flying from high above the crows nest. "...Jolly Rodger!" Murmers one voice. "....Skull and Crossbones" another. Waves crashing against hull, the gaudily painted wooden vessel approaches becoming clear at last to even the most nearsighted watchers. It is a fantastically rigged and carved wooden sailing ship, lifted straight out of some poor wretches Treasure Island or Pirates of the Carribean fantasy. Gaudily, and sometimes scantily clad men and women hang in the rigging, and swarm across the deck, tankards and cutlasses flourished with indiscriminate zest- is it a party, or threat?- it's impossible to tell. At last within hailing distance, the ship slows, sails allowed to luff, and a figure is seen clambering up onto the bow railing, supporting itself between the wings of the gryphon carving that graces the bow of the ship. Those keen of sight strain to make out the name painted on the hull below the great carved beast. But wait- row upon row of names are inscribed, each carefully crossed out, and replaced with another, over and over- this ship has obviously changed hands many times. "Ahoy!" the figure calls out, waving the a broad brimmed hat bedecked with a fluffy ostritch feather. It appears to be woman, clad in a snug Buff colored leather bodice, full sleves of the white chemise rolled up above her elbows, and rainbow striped skirt tucked up and knotted, exposing well tanned legs. "I'm Moriel, momentary representative of the good ship....Ummm...Anyship!" She peers over the side, trying to make out which name is currently scrawled on the bow. Shaking her her head, she again addresses her astonished audience, as the colorful mob behind her swarms at the railings. "We hear there's been a bit of a battle going on here, so we have dropped in to look over the pick- Oooff!" She exhales suddenly as someone jabs her roughly from behind. "I mean, to offer our assistance!" She grins broadly, trying her best to look innocent and friendly. "Now I must be honest here...", she adds. "..Our loyalty will go to whomsoever makes it most worth our while- and I can assure you, that so long as the stories are good, you'll have our undivided attention and reviews!" She glances back over her soulder, where, even as she speaks, crew members are switching sides, and moving back and forth across the line that marks the neutral center of the ship. "We are, she adds, a democratic crew, always ready to welcome new hands, and happy to allow each member of our crew to freely follow and aid whatever flag catches their eye!' She again waves her plumed hat, and a cheer erupts from the chaotic mob on the raucous ship. "Let the Wild Rumpus Begin!" From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 14:40:31 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 08:40:31 -0600 Subject: Rock #47 References: Message-ID: <3A7580DF.362EE961@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11132 John Walton wrote: > Okay, your ever-so-slightly miffed Moderator With Rock #47 here again. 1. I changed the subject heading. 2. What the hell is this rock? What *are* you talking about? Where'd the rock come from? Is this something I should have been able to figure out, but didn't, like Aberforth's Goat? Or have you just been online way, way too long? --Amanda From prisoner06 at earthlink.net Mon Jan 29 15:09:00 2001 From: prisoner06 at earthlink.net (Doug Dorman) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:09:00 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand Order (*that* old saw) References: <01C08971.E3491060.msmacgoo@one.net.au> Message-ID: <006201c08a05$69f976c0$b06abfa8@dorman> No: HPFGUIDX 11133 There is a difference between first edition and first printing IIRC. Meaning its the first edition of the book but the second printing. Sometimes when a flaw like that is corrected they don;t bother calling it a second edition becuase it was the way the first was supposed to be. Therefore not a revision but a correction. ----------------------------------------- Natsugusa ya Summer grass: tsuwamonodomono Warriors dreams, yume no ato the aftermath. --Basho ----------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Snuffles MacGoo To: HP4GU (E-mail) Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 3:15 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wand Order (*that* old saw) Yesterday I visited a friend and wound up talking about HP - No I had a look at her _first edition_ GoF and it has the corrected wand order. (dumfounded surprise). I nearly fell of the sofa in shock. There was no errata and it was marked First aust ed (just like mine) on the front page. How wrong/sneaky is that? I had run home and check mine was the original order (yes it was) Fyi storm Yahoo! Groups Sponsor www. .com Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From anglinsbees at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 15:10:53 2001 From: anglinsbees at yahoo.com (Ellen & John Anglin) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:10:53 -0000 Subject: Getting Shippy With It- Mercenaries approach! In-Reply-To: <953usq+acea@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95415t+13rh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11134 OK- I wrote the previous in a rather odd mood- After the chat yesterday, I was examiningmy own feeelings regarding shippiness, and I ahve to admit that I am a bit of a mercenary- I like reading different stories and theories, and I find I can agree with pieces of almost all of them. I can even see the point of some of the slash fictions. all of these POV's have their place, and in the multivers of fandom, they all SHOULD have their place. I guess I'll continue to throe my support behind any convincing theory or story that comes along. If that makes me a mercenary, or the ultimate mugwump (Mug on one side of the fence, wump on the other) then, So be it! I'll have as much fun as I possibly can floating from one party to another! Let the Wild Rumpus Begin! Ellen/ Moriel The crazy Beekeeper From rdeyerle at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 15:15:11 2001 From: rdeyerle at hotmail.com (Rusty Deyerle) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:15:11 -0000 Subject: Do Animagi choose their forms? In-Reply-To: <9508km+htel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9541dv+ta69@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11135 >Here's an interesting question, though. Is there a difference >between transfiguring a human into an animal and becoming an0 >animagus? I think the difference is that transfiguring is a short term spell and wears off. However once you cast the complex anamagi spell, you can shape change at will and for long periods of time (Wormtail is Scabbers for years). It seemed that the anamagi spell becomes an integral part of the person. It is like a permanent enchantment. From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 15:28:45 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:28:45 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Female Archetypes References: <9533jk+cnfi@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A758C2C.7714770C@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11136 Schlobin at aol.com wrote: > Oh my goodness, these are not female archetypes..they are a misguided > and awful attempted to place women into two and only two categories... > Which is ridiculous..women fall into a multitude of categories just as > men do.. Ohmigod, I'm agreeing with Susan again! Somebody throw water on me, quick! > this reminds me of the Indo-Europeans..when they invaded Crete/Greece > they tried to divest the pre-patriarchal Goddesses of their complexity > and make them into, maiden, virgin, whore, mother, crone..real women > are very complex..... Um, interesting choice of examples. The IEs were tremendously patriarchal, judging from linguistic analysis, and probably did this everywhere. And Greek goddesses, in their often confusing personality quirks, still reflect plenty of complexity in that they don't always do what their role would suggest. There's been lots of discussion about the pre-IE culture in Greece--there was a lot of survival in names and places---as I recall, "Hera" isn't even an IE root, nor are placenames like Ithaca and Corinth. So there's likelihood that more of the complexities of the pre-IE Greek pantheon survived the IE onslaught, than the goddesses of elsewhere. The Minoan culture was overrun by Greece, but I believe it was before the IEs got there, wasn't it? I'm fuzzy on the details, but wasn't Linear A a non-IE language, but written in Greek characters? So the Cretan pantheon might easily have been pretty intermingled with the mainland before the IEs got there. And just to normalize things, I must point out that however complex the woman in question, when you get down to things like "maiden, virgin, whore, mother, crone" etc., this is one generalization that does fit. Most of these are stages of life (I hope whore isn't!), not attempts to generalize personality. > Oh goodness, that was a very misogynist post Doncha mean misandronist? (correct word, someone?) --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 15:31:06 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:31:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Animagi vs transfigeration (was Re: Do Animagi choose their forms? References: <951qqc+qnt3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A758CBA.C4E979CA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11137 msl at fc.net wrote: > Here's a question; what happens when a really complicated person > becomes an animagus? Might they turn into a magical hybrid beast > such as a hippogriff? Well, what happens when a really complicated person wears the Sorting Hat? It takes the hat a bit of time to decide, but eventually one aspect of personality decides it. Also I'm assuming the forms one can be, as animagus, are limited to beasts that have a fairly normal animal lifestyle and span--i.e., not created, not spread by "creation" like vampirism, but by reproduction, etc. Therefore, whether one could be a magical animal or not may depend on the animal in question. --Amanda From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Mon Jan 29 15:40:43 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:40:43 +0100 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books Message-ID: <01c08a09$d75cdd20$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11138 >Or, in case of any problems, you can e-mail them, I'm sure, they'll >understand: >pomoc at empik.com Or you can e-mail *me* directly, I should understand you, too ... Well, I hope so. monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Monika Z. >Good luck! >(it's a bit complicated - like the 4th HP's task :))) > >Katarzyna Ktos jeszcze jest z Polski, czy tylko my dwie? Monika Z. From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Mon Jan 29 15:34:22 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:34:22 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: Direction of Pettigrew's spell Message-ID: <01c08a08$f3feafe0$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11139 >But didn't it say someplace that Pettigrew cast the spell behind him, so it >would look like it came from Sirius' wand? Anyone behind him who saw this would >have been killed, and the witnesses on other sides would think Sirius did it. So >he didn't cast anything toward Sirius at all. He was trying for cover, not to >get Sirius. I know, I know, but my imagination does not listen to reason. It shows Pettigrew casting spell from behind his back, but torwards Sirius and I can't help it. Monika Z. From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 15:33:45 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:33:45 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Lupin the werewolf and James the stag References: Message-ID: <3A758D59.31BE951@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11140 Steph Widger wrote: > So, what is a stag? A male deer. Although I think it applies to European varieties (I think what we call elk, you overseas guys call red deer), because I haven't seen a whitetail or mule deer male called anything but "buck," except in "Bambi." --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 15:39:09 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:39:09 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Do Animagi choose their forms? References: <9508km+htel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A758E9C.260D4A80@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11141 mschub at yahoo.com wrote: > (Don't ask me why, but the image of the stag makes me > think strength of character and responsibility. It's like the scene in > Bambi where we see Bambi's father, and he just EXUDES strength of > character.). Not to mention he's the only one with a decent rack. > Here's an interesting question, though. Is there a difference between > transfiguring a human into an animal and becoming an animagus? I'd say so. I think there's a class of magic that I called "wandless" magic in some earlier discussion. I think wands help focus and direct the caster's intent, a la Chris Stasheff's "Her Majesty's Wizard" and related books. Magic cast without such a focusing device is bound to be much more uncontrolled and dangerous (hence the bizarre things that Harry did as a child), so that attempting things like animagus transformations or apparation (also wandless) are regulated. In line with this, a human transfiguration would be a spell cast with a wand, not all that dangerous, and it's something usually cast on others. I'd bet this is why Krum's transfiguration didn't work too well--he was casting a spell on himself with a wand. But the animagus spell involves a great focusing of the will to alter oneself, to give animal form to your "self" or personality, and as such is much more involved. I hope that made sense. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 15:47:49 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:47:49 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Harry Potter for Everyone [Yahoo! Clubs: Harry Potter for Grown Ups]] Message-ID: <3A7590A5.B6940D79@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11142 Dear Moderator people-- I keep getting postings from a group, as shown in the message I've forwarded below as an example--the subject line doesn't show the [HPforGrownups] that ours does, but it's the same name. I started to get these after I signed up so I could attend a Yahoo chat, before the merger. Are they a totally different group? Are they us, posting weirdly? Do I need to unsubscribe from someplace? Thanks for any advice'n'counsel, --Amanda -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Harry Potter for Everyone [Yahoo! Clubs: Harry Potter for Grown Ups] Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:21:44 PST From: radar_resa Reply-To: clubs-mail at yahoo-inc.com To: editor at texas.net Hi, Barbara my name is Deresa. I just love the Harry Potter books. I read alot of Children's books as well as adult books. I love everything about the Harry Potter books. You can just get lost in the Fantasy. It is just like the "Hobbit" books. You can get lost in another world for awhile. I read alot of adult books too and was surprised that people consider these books for children. My favorite character is Ron Weasley. I always go for the underdog. As you can probably tell by my screen name radar. Please reply if you would like to. Deresa --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "Harry Potter for Grown Ups" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=harrypotterforgrownups&sid=21870477&mid=7984 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups/config/change_mb_list Return to "Harry Potter for Grown Ups": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=mandolabar&.groupID=harrypotterforgrownups&.groupType=&.code=tc3oZrqfDV From gypsycaine at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 16:43:20 2001 From: gypsycaine at yahoo.com (Denise R) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:43:20 -0600 Subject: Looking for the tapes? Message-ID: <00b801c08a12$97acc2e0$b7e2fea9@computer> No: HPFGUIDX 11143 I recall someone was mentioning wanting to obtain a copy of the tapes (Jim Dale)? Here's a few auction links, if that helps? I get them in my morning email-box. http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/48960244 http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/48956185 Hope this helps folks! ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ~~Dee~~ :) "Night is the hardest time to be alive. It lasts so long, and 4am knows all my secrets." (Poppy Brite) Get ICQ and get connected! ICQ me @ 21282374 http://www.icq.com For those who love to cook: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/cakesandale ______________________________________________ ?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Mon Jan 29 15:56:24 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:56:24 -0000 Subject: Swamped with email? Here's an idea... Message-ID: <9543r8+fsq2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11144 Hey, gang :) I'm not a moderator but I work behind the scenes with the FAQs and things like that, so I've been hearing the worries from some of you about the sheer volume of messages that this list generates. I share your pain...I don't want hundreds of email messages flooding my inbox either. So I've set this list to NOT send email at all. You can do that using the "Delivery Options" link up on top of the page there. Then when you want to read messages, you go online to the HPforGrownups web site. You can list messages up to 50 at a time and just read what you want. You can scroll through and skip anything you want, read anything that sounds good, and none of it is actually clogging up your computer. You can write responses or original posts right from there too, of course (like I'm doing now). I wouldn't be able to handle this list if it weren't for this option. Give it a try. Sanity is just couple of clicks away... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 16:09:55 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:09:55 -0000 Subject: Do Animagi choose their forms? In-Reply-To: <9508km+htel@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9544kj+f8jq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11145 Mike:"I've always subscribed to this theory. Like the daemons in Pullman's HDM series, the animal form is an expression of the personality of the person. Padfoot - loyal, strong, kind. Prongs - strong, tough, responsible (Don't ask me why, but the image of the stag makes me think strength of character and responsibility. It's like the scene in Bambi where we see Bambi's father, and he just EXUDES strength of character.)" Yes. It certainly holds true with Wormtail also, doesn't it? I doubt he chose to be a rat. The stag's image is exactly what you say, IMO. The Hartford Insurance Company didn't choose their trademark by accident. And it's cross-cultural. Look at Shishi in Hayao Miyazaki's "Princess Mononoke" -- the highest of the forest gods. (you can look at the stag in the final sequence of "Fantasia 2000" also, but that's a homage to Miyazaki, who the Disney animators all admire.) From heiditandy at bigfoot.com Mon Jan 29 16:24:46 2001 From: heiditandy at bigfoot.com (heiditandy at bigfoot.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:24:46 -0000 Subject: merchandise issues (water globe in specific) Message-ID: <9545ge+mluf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11146 So I got the little water globe of the Devi's Snare this weekend, and when I was looking at it today, noticed (a) that Harry's eyes are *BLACK*, and he has no scar (unless the water has eroded it away) - does anyone else who has this piece have the same problem, or were some done properly? From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 16:50:18 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:50:18 -0000 Subject: merchandise issues (water globe in specific) In-Reply-To: <9545ge+mluf@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95470a+se4h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11147 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., heiditandy at b... wrote: > So I got the little water globe of the Devi's Snare this weekend, and > when I was looking at it today, noticed (a) that Harry's eyes are > *BLACK*, and he has no scar (unless the water has eroded it away) - > does anyone else who has this piece have the same problem, or were > some done properly? The one I saw in the store last week was the same as yours. I know I sound like a one-note Charley about this, but I don't think any of the merchandise was very good and all the artwork was substandard. It absolutely was a cash-in quick deal. What compounds it are all the willing victims out there who'll shell out for this stuff no matter how bad it is. (present company absolutely excepted) From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Mon Jan 29 17:47:05 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:47:05 -0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Harry Potter for Everyone [Yahoo! Clubs: Harry Potter for Grown Ups]] In-Reply-To: <3A7590A5.B6940D79@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11148 Amanda wrote: "I keep getting postings from a group, as shown in the message I've forwarded below as an example--the subject line doesn't show the [HPforGrownups] that ours does, but it's the same name. I started to get these after I signed up so I could attend a Yahoo chat, before the merger. Are they a totally different group? Are they us, posting weirdly? Do I need to unsubscribe from someplace?" Note that: Yahoo Club means the old Club over on Yahoo Yahoo Group means the new group, which was formerly on eGroups, and is on Yahoo Groups (where this message will be posted to). The message in question is a post to the original HPforGU that exists on Yahoo Clubs (but will probably be left to die now as we no longer have a use for it). Though most moved over and now use this Yahoo Group, a few people still talk on the old group at Yahoo Clubs. Some find Yahoo Clubs nicer to use and some just find it a little too busy here (I can understand this). While the chats were being held on the Yahoo Club it was necessary to be subscribed to the Club to join in. Now the chat happens on the Group it is no longer necessary to be also subscribed to the old club. Choices are setting the old club to web access only or totally unsubscribing from it. Hope this helps Simon Below is the forwarded message from HPforGU Yahoo Clubs that Amanda was asking about. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Harry Potter for Everyone [Yahoo! Clubs: Harry Potter for Grown Ups] Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:21:44 PST From: radar_resa Reply-To: clubs-mail at yahoo-inc.com To: editor at texas.net Hi, Barbara my name is Deresa. I just love the Harry Potter books. I read alot of Children's books as well as adult books. I love everything about the Harry Potter books. You can just get lost in the Fantasy. It is just like the "Hobbit" books. You can get lost in another world for awhile. I read alot of adult books too and was surprised that people consider these books for children. My favorite character is Ron Weasley. I always go for the underdog. As you can probably tell by my screen name radar. Please reply if you would like to. Deresa --------------------------------------------- DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! --------------------------------------------- You have chosen to receive messages from "Harry Potter for Grown Ups" by email. Reply to this message: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups/bbsfrp?action=r&tid=harr ypotterforgrownups&sid=21870477&mid=7984 Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups/config/change_mb_list Return to "Harry Potter for Grown Ups": http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups ---------------------------------------------- Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=mandolabar&.g roupID=harrypotterforgrownups&.groupType=&.code=tc3oZrqfDV Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From john at walton.to Mon Jan 29 17:53:26 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:53:26 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Rock #47 In-Reply-To: <3A7580DF.362EE961@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11149 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > John Walton wrote: > >> Okay, your ever-so-slightly miffed Moderator With Rock #47 here again. > > 1. I changed the subject heading. > 2. What the hell is this rock? What *are* you talking about? Where'd the rock > come from? Is this something I should have been able to figure out, but > didn't, like Aberforth's Goat? > Or have you just been online way, way too long? Ah, it's a reference to cameos in literature, specifically fanfiction. Essentially, there's a long-running joke in online fandom that, when you give a friend a cameo, you make them "Background Character with Rock" -- in Star Trek, it would be "Furry Monster With Rock". Star Wars would be "StormTrooper With Rock". Buffy would be "Vampire/Demon With Rock" HP could be "Gryffindor With Rock". I believe it started in Trek fandom, but I couldn't for the life of me point you to any particular story. >From then on, the degree of friendship you have depends on the higher number after the Rock. "47" is the theoretical maximum, so your best online Trek friend would be "Furry Monster With Rock #47". Ergo, therefore and thus, as this is my favorite list, I'm Moderator With Rock #47! Hope that clears that up. ::menacing brandish of Rock:: --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Receiver of the world's dumbest FFN review for Song of Time, Chapter *5*: "really cool! so, what? Draco and harry r like, stepbrothers or sometihng? cool idea" Mental note: SoT presumes reading of Draco Dormiens. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From rina at love-productions.com Mon Jan 29 17:52:58 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 11:52:58 -0600 Subject: Percy, Ha/R, Second Task, H/R Message-ID: <008501c08a1c$6967c6a0$b9549eac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11150 Captain Kathy wrote all of the following quoted things: <> I've been confused about this - why would Percy be evil and turn into a Death Eater? We've never seen anything that demonstrated that, have we? He does love his family - that above scene with Ron, taking care of Ginny when she was sick, etc. They might not always appreciate the ways he goes about it, but he loves them and seems to always want to do what's right. I think that would stretch to doing all he can to help Dumbledore and his father and everyone do battle. Of course, that might not happen until he actually sees and understands it's the truth, but I don't think he'd be evil in the meantime. <> Well, now, don't say that yet. LOL I really don't think it's what you'd expect. <> Really? Like what? I see evidence for both, but I can see evidence for just about anyone. The only real Ha/R evidence I can think of is the second task, when Ron was Harry's most important person. I raised my eyebrows at that, but then I started thinking about it. There really is no one else important in Harry's life. Hermione was with Krum, Sirius couldn't be there. He doesn't have any real family, no other close friends, etc. Ron, Hermione and Sirius are all that he has. Well, Hagrid too, I guess. And speaking of the second task, who determined who the most important person was? What was the criteria? Fleur's sister I can understand. Ron I can understand. Hermione?! I mean, geez, what is Krum's life like that his most important person is someone he just met a few months ago? I wonder how Hermione felt about that. First kinda-boyfriend/date, he's older, and she's the most important thing in his life? Pretty big stuff for a 14 year old. Hell, that'd be pretty big stuff for me. LOL <> Hee hee! Don't worry, I make the best martinis this side of the Mississippi. Some of them might be so enamored with my bartending skills that they'll follow me back to the Good Ship R/H. ; ) <> You know, this could very well be the dividing line between R/H and H/H. Calm vs. Volatile relationships, as some people don't feel comfortable with one or the other. For me, personally, I prefer volatile. My friend Eric and I are like this - we snap and bicker and debate just about everything, but that's just how we are together. We fight loud and passionate, but usually fast, and that's how we get past things. It's also, believe it or not, somewhat affectionate. That's somewhat how I picture Ron/Hermione. Also kinda like Jenny and Oliver in "Love Story." They totally love each other, and they show it, but they also swear and call each other bitch and bastard. To each their own. LOL But maybe we all look at what we prefer in a relationship, and apply it to these characters? I think I do, sounds like Kathy might, and I believe Penny talked earlier about not seeing anything affectionate in the constant bickering. Any thoughts? I know it's a generalization, but I'm just curious if it's on target. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bbennett at joymail.com Mon Jan 29 18:02:04 2001 From: bbennett at joymail.com (bbennett at joymail.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:02:04 -0000 Subject: Cassie and Lori's offensive stories In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <954b6s+9aqb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11151 > Rita sez: > > HOWEVER, I am somewhaat offended > by Lori's theory that Harry is a special kind of super-wizard that > has never existed before, and less than thrilled by Cassie making >him a more commonplace type of super-wizard. > In other words: Super-Harry = Yuck! Why be offended? Lori's and Cassie's stories are as justified with the SuperHarry theory as stories where he's average Joe Wizard. You can make a case for either from reading the books, and both these writers construct entertaining, plausable stories. There's nothing outlandish about the concept, as Harry's going to turn out to either be amazingly talented or a kid who was in the wrong place at the wrong time (I've always leaned toward the second theory, but I'm starting to think I'm wrong). Relax and enjoy, and think of something to be properly offended by, such as a Crabbe/Goyle/Draco/Millicent Balstrode love quadrangle story. It's all for fun ;^) Best, B. From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 29 18:22:51 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:22:51 -0000 Subject: Percy, Ha/R, Second Task, H/R In-Reply-To: <008501c08a1c$6967c6a0$b9549eac@shelley> Message-ID: <954cdr+raqc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11152 Rina Stewart wrote: > > Captain Kathy wrote all of the following quoted things: > > < the Second Task alone is evidence that he really does care about his family. > I don't think he'll go all evil, although I think he will find his loyalties > and assumptions tested in the future.>> > > I've been confused about this - why would Percy be evil and turn >into a Death Eater? We've never seen anything that demonstrated that, >have we? He does love his family - that above scene with Ron, taking >care of Ginny when she was sick, etc. They might not always >appreciate >the ways he goes about it, but he loves them and seems to always want >to do what's right. I think that would stretch to doing all he can to >help Dumbledore and his father and everyone do battle. Of course, >that might not happen until he actually sees and understands it's the >truth, but I don't think he'd be evil in the meantime. After reading the Percy threads earlier this month, I re-read the Percy parts of the books. I thought the Percy parts in GoF disturbing. He seems to be following in the footsteps of Crouch Sr with regard to his family. In fact, Mrs. Weasley chastized Percy shortly after the World Cup when Percy stated that Mr. Weasley was at fault for the Rita Skeeter commentary. That, along with his dismissing Ron's attack in PoA, sort of tells me Percy's "loyality" to Dumbledore will be tested in the coming books. I'm not going to say Percy will become a Death Eater, but I do believe he will side with Cornelius Fudge do to his isolation from his family and near hero-worship of the Ministry. :-) Milz From msl at fc.net Mon Jan 29 18:26:02 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:26:02 -0000 Subject: Animagi vs transfigeration (was Re: Do Animagi choose their forms? In-Reply-To: <3A758CBA.C4E979CA@texas.net> Message-ID: <954cjq+108qc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11153 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Amanda Lewanski wrote: > msl at f... wrote: > > > Here's a question; what happens when a really complicated person > > becomes an animagus? Might they turn into a magical hybrid beast > > such as a hippogriff? > > Well, what happens when a really complicated person wears the > Sorting Hat? It takes the hat a bit of time to decide, but > eventually one aspect of personality decides it. Well, there are a lot more animals in the world than Hogwarts houses, too, so maybe an animagus has more flexibity of possibility and/or choice. > Also I'm assuming the forms one can be, as animagus, are limited to > beasts that have a fairly normal animal lifestyle and span--i.e., > not created, not spread by "creation" like > vampirism, but by reproduction, etc. Therefore, whether one could > be a magical animal or not may depend on the animal in question. I wonder what role personal consciousness plays. If Animagi can't necessarily choose which animal they become, are they at least restricted in choice to animals of which they are aware; or perhaps to those animals of which they are intimately aware? Mightn't an Australian wizard find himself turned into a koala or wombat, say? marvin From ban_pep90 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 18:32:19 2001 From: ban_pep90 at yahoo.com (ban_pep90 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:32:19 -0000 Subject: book 5 Message-ID: <954cvj+q1ms@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11154 Hi just found this group, wonderful!! I was just wondering if anyone has an idea when the 5th book will be released?? TIA. Pepper From msl at fc.net Mon Jan 29 18:49:37 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:49:37 -0000 Subject: Shipping and noshipping In-Reply-To: <952lql+g76u@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <954e01+lijo@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11155 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Rita Winston" wrote: > > But I also find distasteful the no-shipping arguments that assert > that things like "they're only 14", "they're going to go through a > lot of stuff that can change their personalities, and some of > them might die", and "Muggles hardly ever marry someone they met in > junior high" are adequate reasons to avoid gossip and speculation. > And the argument that 'whatever JKR writes in her books is the way > it truly happens' doesn't even qualify as a true statement. As far as *this* noshipper is concerned, the point is not to discourage speculation and gossip; the point is to explain why I don't feel compelled to pant after or lobby for one pairing of characters or another. I don't want to discourage anybody else from doing so. For that matter, I don't think it quite qualifies as shipping unless you've decided that you *want* to see two(or more) characters together. To merely read the words JKR wrote and say, "Aha! I see evidence that Ron likes Hermione!" isn't quite shipping. That's just reading. OTOH, to say, "Aha! See this evidence that Hermione reciprocates Ron's affection? In your face, SS H/H!!" *is* shipping. :-) But there might be an intermediate state, too. For example, what if someone reads the books for signs of potential romance and argues for the likelihood of a pairing based on textual evidence? This person isn't saying "I *want* so-and-so to match up with so-and-so because they seem right for each other/because that satisfies my drama jones;" rather, he's saying, "I think this will happen in the future for reasons x,y,z." Is that shipping? What if the purpose of these reasearch is a wager, say...."Ten galleons on H/H before the end of book 6!" Is that shipping or just goofiness? The last questions interests me because I wonder if adopting the label "noshipper" means I'm not supposed to speculate *at all* about the romantic interests of the characters, or if it just means that I haven't taken up a particular match as my cause. I lean towards the latter definition simply because I *am* curious, and I *do* care about the characters' emotions and so on, othewise the books would be less fun. How about this analogy; I see the noshipper fan as a kind of literary sports analyst, watching the game and trying to understand the play and possibily even predict/infer the outcome without actually rooting for a particular team/outcome. It's like watching a game between teams neither of whom is *your* team, so you don't have to be fully invested in the outcome and instead you just cheer whenever you see a good play. marvin From neilward at dircon.co.uk Mon Jan 29 19:14:06 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:14:06 -0000 Subject: Further note on our 'old' Yahoo club (responding to Amanda) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <954fdv+713h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11156 Amanda wrote: "I keep getting postings from a group, as shown in the message I've forwarded below as an example--the subject line doesn't show the [HPforGrownups] that ours does, but it's the same name. Are they a totally different group?" As Dr Simon has already explained, Yahoo! is where we started out. I'll add that when we first moved over to eGroups, Paul (smitster1) archived the entire club into another, searchable eGroups club, which you can find via our Portkey (Files section) or, directly, at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups-Archives/messages The messages there date back to October 1999, and it's worth noting that the contents have been incorporated into the FAQs we are writing. As Simon said, people have continued joining and posting in the old club, but it's really just a trickle of the rampaging river it once was. To recap: If you signed up to Yahoo! *and* joined that club (to use the chatroom) with the delivery option set to receive e-mails, you will get messages posted there just like Amanda has. Neil Moderator with pillow #13 > > Note that: > Yahoo Club means the old Club over on Yahoo > Yahoo Group means the new group, which was formerly on eGroups, and is on > Yahoo Groups (where this message will be posted to). > > The message in question is a post to the original HPforGU that exists on > Yahoo Clubs (but will probably be left to die now as we no longer have a use > for it). Though most moved over and now use this Yahoo Group, a few people > still talk on the old group at Yahoo Clubs. Some find Yahoo Clubs nicer to > use and some just find it a little too busy here (I can understand this). > > While the chats were being held on the Yahoo Club it was necessary to be > subscribed to the Club to join in. Now the chat happens on the Group it is > no longer necessary to be also subscribed to the old club. > > Choices are setting the old club to web access only or totally unsubscribing > from it. > > > Hope this helps > > Simon > > Below is the forwarded message from HPforGU Yahoo Clubs that Amanda was > asking about. > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Harry Potter for Everyone [Yahoo! Clubs: Harry Potter for > Grown Ups] > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 10:21:44 PST > From: radar_resa > Reply-To: clubs-mail at y... > To: editor at t... > > Hi, > > Barbara my name is Deresa. I just love the Harry Potter books. I read > alot of Children's books as well as adult books. > > I love everything about the Harry Potter books. > You can just get lost in the Fantasy. It is just like the "Hobbit" > books. You can get lost in another world for awhile. I read alot of > adult books too and was surprised that people consider these books for > children. My favorite character is Ron Weasley. I always go for the > underdog. As you can probably tell by my screen name radar. > > Please reply if you would like to. > Deresa > > --------------------------------------------- > DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE BY EMAIL! > --------------------------------------------- > You have chosen to receive messages from "Harry Potter for Grown Ups" by > email. > > Reply to this message: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups/bbsfrp? action=r&tid=harr > ypotterforgrownups&sid=21870477&mid=7984 > > Unsubscribe from the Club mailing list: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups/config/change_mb_l ist > > Return to "Harry Potter for Grown Ups": > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/harrypotterforgrownups > ---------------------------------------------- > > Not a member? Remove yourself from this list: > http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/unsubscribe_mb_list?.userID=mandola bar&.g > roupID=harrypotterforgrownups&.groupType=&.code=tc3oZrqfDV > > > Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our > website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out > our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at > groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at y... From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Mon Jan 29 19:21:01 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:21:01 -0000 Subject: book 5 In-Reply-To: <954cvj+q1ms@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <954fqt+487s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11157 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., ban_pep90 at y... wrote: > Hi just found this group, wonderful!! I was just wondering if anyone > has an idea when the 5th book will be released?? TIA. Pepper Hi, based upon what I've read, Book 5 won't be out until 2002. However, Rowling has written "Quidditch Through the Ages" and Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them". Both books will be released this March. You might want to reserve your copies if you haven't done so already. :-)Milz From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Mon Jan 29 19:21:02 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 19:21:02 -0000 Subject: Shipping and noshipping In-Reply-To: <954e01+lijo@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <954fqu+tnvf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11158 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Marvin... wrote: > > The last questions interests me because I wonder if adopting the > label "noshipper" means I'm not supposed to speculate *at all* about > the romantic interests of the characters, or if it just means that I > haven't taken up a particular match as my cause. I lean towards the > latter definition simply because I *am* curious, and I *do* care > about the characters' emotions and so on, othewise the books would be > less fun. I'd go for the latter definition as well. Speculation is just another way to interprit the canon - it's really no different from saying, "I interprit text to indicate that Percy is going to choose the Ministry over his family when it comes to choosing sides," of "I interprit text as support for the assertion that Harry may be prone to developing PTSD in the future if the battle with Voldemort results in the death, in front of him, of a close friend..." > How about this analogy; I see the noshipper fan as a kind of literary > sports analyst, watching the game and trying to understand the play > and possibily even predict/infer the outcome without actually rooting > for a particular team/outcome. It's like watching a game between > teams neither of whom is *your* team, so you don't have to be fully > invested in the outcome and instead you just cheer whenever you see a > good play. I like the analogy - and if I hadn't been swayed to the H/H ship by Ebony, Penny, Lori and to some extent Cassie, I'd be on the sports deck of that submarine by this point (time for people to say, "she's H/H? But I thought her fanfic was D/Herm!" (to which I respond..."Science Project!")) From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 20:08:05 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:08:05 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Looking for Polish books References: <3A70ED76.B9ADEE65@texas.net> <00d001c08769$d2ba1460$82604cd5@default> <3A71D6CE.B03C6E5F@texas.net> <000701c08848$08a185c0$39624cd5@default> Message-ID: <3A75CDA5.3FE818FB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11159 nykteris wrote: > > 4. Some information about safe shpooing should appear. Click OK. This sentence alone made this whole thread worthwhile. I am so happy that I'm not the only one who does this sort of typo! However, I now cannot think of "safe shopping" without making it into "safe shpooing" (although it sounds like something we Snape lovers should be practicing, eh?). Thanks for the advice and when I figure out what I want to do I'll email you privately. --Amanda From editor at texas.net Mon Jan 29 20:12:06 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:12:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Older vs. Ready References: Message-ID: <3A75CE95.90B39A66@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11160 Melissa Daily wrote: > This may seem far fetched, but could Lily have performed the Fidelius Charm > with Harry as the secret keeper himself? It could be that Harry won't know > how to unlock it until he's older and when he's ready. I think being Secret Keeper involves both understanding and volition, so, I'd say no, a baby couldn't be a Secret Keeper. But what secret, exactly, are you thinking that Harry's the Keeper for? --Amanda From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 21:18:56 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:18:56 -0000 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD In-Reply-To: <3A71F244.898D66B8@swbell.net> Message-ID: <954mo0+ilfb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11161 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Hi -- > > naama_gat at h... wrote: > > > After all, most people who have fought in wars do not get PTSD. > > I could be wrong, but I think that might be a bit of a generalization. I > think I've read something somewhere that a majority of Vietnam vets > suffered some degree of PTSD at some point in their lives. > > > My point in all this is that Harry probably will not suffer from PTSD. > > I doubt that he will ever go through a more horrible experience than > > the graveyard scene. And according to the canon he has > > emotionally survived this. > > If the books are only going to get darker (per JKR), how do you figure > that Harry has already lived through the worst of it? I personally > didn't think he'd have faced what he did in GoF (I was shocked that > Voldemort was back in full-force in the *4th* book -- didn't expect it > until the 6th or even 7th book myself). But, he *is* back, and I don't > think the coming "War" is going to be a cakewalk for anyone involved. I > don't think poor Harry has gone through the worst of it by any means. > > > We should remember, however, that generally speaking people are tough > > and can survive very difficult times without breaking up emotionally > > (which is what I think PTSD is basically). > > I'm sure Carole or Monika or someone else more knowledgeable about PTSD > can speak to this more than I can .... but my personal take is that > you're viewing PTSD as some sort of personal weakness that could be > overcome with enough strength of character. I don't think this is > necessarily true, but I admittedly am not too knowledgeable about this > topic. > > Penny NO, NO, NO!! That is just the complete and twisted opposite of what I believe. Its so weird that that is the impression you've got. To blame a person, who has suffered unbearable pain and terror, for having PTSD as a result - well.. words fail me. That would be cruelty on a whole new level. What I wanted to say (and I may be quite wrong, of course), is that PTSD seems to be related to *prolonged* and extreme states of terror, pain and horror. It seemed to me that the struggle with V. (so long as he doesn't take over) does not entail such prolonged "exposure". I'm not at all sure that I am right in this. I think I'm extrapolating from the plots we know, where there are only short and decisive encounters with V. Obviously, that may change in the future books. As to the scene in the graveyard - horrible things will happen now that V. has risen again, and at a much higher frequency. However, I still feel that Harry has, personally, gone through the worst thing he has and will experience. *Nothing* could be worse than that horrible spell. Seeing V. as the monstrous child, having his blood "taken forcibly", watching Wormtail cut off his own hand, and, horror of horrors - seeing V. rise again. And all the while - tied up, helpless, knowing that he is going to die by V. hands, the same person who muredered his parents, and be fed to his snake. Jeez. I shouldn't at all wonder if he will start getting flashbacks several years hence. I hope I've made my thoughts on this clear now. Its getting pretty late here and my thoughts are getting woolier and woolier. Naama From naama_gat at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 21:36:57 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:36:57 -0000 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD (was re: marvin's fanfic) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <954npp+b6bb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11162 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Ebony Elizabeth Thomas" wrote: > Will we ever agree on *anything*, Naama? You're not looking at this at all in the right way. Be more self-confident - each time I don't respond to a message, count it as an agreement, and (except on the shipping issue of which I'm tired) it will most probably be true. > > JKR has implied that the theme of her series is largely allegorical... most > fantasy epics *are*. Good versus evil. Anyone who comes in contact with > pure, unadulterated evil will be changed forever. > > As for wide-scale trauma, it not only affects individuals, but entire > nations and communities. To give just one example out of many worldwide, > I'd be willing to challenge *anyone* who disagrees with the fact that my own > community in this country is still dealing with the aftershock of the > transatlantic slave trade--half a millenium after it first began. > > I can't sit up and argue theory on this issue. For me, it's a gut feeling > derived from my faith. I strongly believe in generational links, patterns, > and derivative implications. Everything I've ever studied about the history > of humankind ties into this belief. > > We don't know what will happen in future books. That leaves the door wide > open for speculation. > True. For further clarifications on my position see my previous post (in answer to Penny's post). Naama From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Mon Jan 29 22:19:01 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 29 Jan 2001 14:19:01 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] More R/H Theories? YES! (was: Defensiveness) Message-ID: <20010129221901.16935.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11163 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From hedwigthecat at aol.com Mon Jan 29 22:26:42 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:26:42 EST Subject: merchandise issues & film Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11164 <<< The one I saw in the store last week was the same as yours. I know I sound like a one-note Charley about this, but I don't think any of the merchandise was very good and all the artwork was substandard. It absolutely was a cash-in quick deal. What compounds it are all the willing victims out there who'll shell out for this stuff no matter how bad it is. (present company absolutely excepted)>>> The film, and anything to do with the film is hot stuff right now. Hopefully the market won't be flooded with merchandise similar to the way the new Star Wars film market was flooded. With all kinds of merchandise that you never wanted to see on the shelves and merchandise produced where you just have to ask...why? I'd like to think that will not happen but....it's all about the allmighty buck nowadays unfortunately. I too saw the WB logo come up during the Superbowl and became excited for just a split second even though I was unable to confirm by the time I left work on friday if the trailer would actually be shown during the game. The film is still in production so I do doubt they'd have enough done to be able to slap together an exciting and captivating 30 sec trailer. Especially when they are being methodical and careful with anything to do with Harry Potter. It has to be just perfect... Imagine, all the fingers in the harry potter pot and everyone that has to agree on the look and feel of the film.....Bwahahahahaha. Not gonna happen! Rowling has retained creative control of the look of many characters but, unfortunately, what everyone imagines the look of the characters to be may not be what is portrayed on the screen or even in the merchandise, as we have seen everyone complain about. Now that I've rambled long enough...back to work! ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo" From morine10 at aol.com Mon Jan 29 22:35:21 2001 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:35:21 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione & the Boys Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11165 In a message dated 1/28/01 9:26:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: Me: > > Hermione is bossy and even though she has lightened up considerably and > will IMO continue to do so, she will always be bossy. > Penny: > Not necessarily. Are you saying that we human beings aren't capable of > fully eradicating negative personality traits? Ever? Never. Actually, I don't think they are ever eradicated, just tweaked. She can take her naturally "bossy" nature and transform it into a less offensive means of helping others. These traits don't go away, but as a person grows they can learn how to use them constructively. Me: > > And yes he does appreciate her help and loyalty. But he says so himself - > she isn't as fun as Ron. > Penny: > I've said it before, but I'll repeat briefly for the newbies. He's a > 14-year old boy. *Of course* he misses his male best friend. Of course > his female best friend who's a > bookworm isn't going to be as much fun to him at that stage in his life. > This does *not* mean though, as R/H'ers have asserted, that (a) Harry cares > for Ron more than Hermione or (b) that when the characters are older and > more mature that he would still long for male companionship over female > companionship. He's just not reached that level of maturity yet (he's only > just started noticing that girls are pretty for goodness' sake). He's > still at the stage where he'd really rather be goofing off than being > serious. That won't always be case though. > I don't think that I have ever asserted a) - at least I haven't meant to. I have friends that I go out and party with and those that are strictly stay at home and watch movie types. I love both. Harry loves and needs both Ron and Hermione. I also did not mean to say that Hermione can't be any fun. Each of the trio brings with them something special, and part of what Ron brings is his humor. As for b) I don't think I've asserted this either. I'm sure that he's going to long for female companionship someday-just not Hermione. We all know that whoever each of the three end up with, their significant others will have to understand the relationship and bond between the trio. Me: > > Both of them need that patented Ron Weasley Fun. > Penny: > Ron can be hilarious -- his sarcasm is a great addition to the Trio. But, > Ron isn't always a barrel of laughs to be around. He needlessly prolonged > arguments with Hermione (PoA) and with Harry (in GoF). He's funny .... but > he's pretty immature and stubborn at this point too (IMO). That could > change -- hopefully it will. > This is a major point of divergence between us - we really do not read the arguments in PoA the same. Regarding the Firebolt, I feel that Harry and Ron were being equally stubborn. Both prolonged that argument. As for the Crookshanks/Scabbers incident - IMO Hermione was acting insensitive and spoiled. Crookshanks was trying to attack and possibly eat Scabbers. She continued to poo-poo Ron's concerns saying "that's what cats and rats do." That really irked me. So what if Ron is mad for a while? Shouldn't he have some time to mourn? His pet is missing and presumed eaten, and I personally believe he had the right to be angry. Hermione apologizes but only after Ron has forgiven her. As for GoF--First let me say that I am not saying that Ron was not at fault in this whole affair. He was absolutely being a prat. However, it is my view is that Harry prolonged that argument. He made himself inapproachable to Ron. My between the lines reading said that it was Ron that made the attempts to make ammends....trying to catch Harry's eye in Divination after Harry's smart remark, looking for Harry in the common room when Harry is speaking with Sirius. Harry had every right to be angry, but Ron was not prolonging anything. But of course this is my interpretation. :) > > Together Hermione and Harry are as dull as one of Professor Binn's goblin > lectures. > > That's a matter of perception. > Ain't it the truth? -Mo Viewing the wizarding world through R/H colored glasses "Can I have a look at Uranus too, Lavender?" - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Mon Jan 29 22:48:38 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:48:38 -0000 Subject: Post-Hogwarts PTSD In-Reply-To: <954mo0+ilfb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <954s06+v8ab@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11166 Naama:"However, I still feel that Harry has, personally, gone through the worst thing he has and will experience. *Nothing* could be worse than that horrible spell. Seeing V. as the monstrous child, having his blood "taken forcibly", watching Wormtail cut off his own hand, and, horror of horrors - seeing V. rise again. And all the while - tied up, helpless, knowing that he is going to die by V. hands, the same person who muredered his parents, and be fed to his snake. Jeez. I shouldn't at all wonder if he will start getting flashbacks several years hence." I think that what will save Harry this time is that he was able to do something about it. He resisted Voldemort, and in a very real way he defeated him by keeping his life and getting away. He was even able to do something for Cedric by bringing his body back. Harry's suffering had a purpose, and I think that makes a critical difference. There's a lot worse that can happen -- watching the people he loves die and suffer, especially if it's for nothing, or if Harry "fails" to save them. I was a paramedic once in my misspent youth. I was never troubled long-term by cases where my skill and work were of some use. I even could deal with cases that no one could have helped. But when I felt I had been defeated, I was torn up. I sorta wish we could get "PTSD" out of this discussion. They don't have the DSM at Hogwarts. We all agree Harry's going to go through hell. From msmacgoo at one.net.au Mon Jan 29 23:10:42 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (msmacgoo at one.net.au) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:10:42 -0000 Subject: Rock #47 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <954t9i+c5mn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11167 > > > John Walton wrote: > > > >> Okay, your ever-so-slightly miffed Moderator With Rock #47 here again. > >> Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > 2. What the hell is this rock? > > Ah, it's a reference to cameos in literature, specifically fanfiction.> Essentially, there's a long-running joke in online fandom that, when you> give a friend a cameo, you make them "Background Character with Rock" > > From then on, the degree of friendship you have depends on the higher number> after the Rock. "47" is the theoretical maximum, so your best online Trek> friend would be "Furry Monster With Rock #47". > > --John ok, I think I'm getting it (Amanda - you are not the only one), just a few more questions 1. so a. like a real rock (peice of stone) or b. 'rock' as in sassy, hoopy, generally cool attitude? 2. Why is #47 the theoretical maximum? storm (focused only on the important things) From morine10 at aol.com Mon Jan 29 23:14:55 2001 From: morine10 at aol.com (morine10 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:14:55 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] No need to get shippy about it... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11168 Captain Kathy: > I have been trying to find a book I read right after I got married that > postulated that there are 3 basic kinds of marriages: "Calm" (not the word > the > author used, but that was basically what he/she meant); "Volatile" (that I > remember exactly); and "Dysfunctional". This author's position was that > only > the third type was unhappy. In the Calm type, the partners do just about > anything to achieve consensus and very often are uncomfortable with > conflict. > In the Volatile type, the partners often fight and scream at one another, > but > then move on. In the Dysfunctional type, the screaming and fighting is > about > sabotaging each other, not getting things out ing the open. I remember > this > well because my husband and I most definitaly fall into the second category > and I felt it wasn't "right" somehow until I read that and realized that it > works for us. People in the first type would probably not feel comfortable > with that, but that's okay. Anyway, the point here is that R/H would > definitely be the second type. Maybe that's why it appeals to me. > This is great. My husband and I fall into the Volatile category. This could pinpoint the difference between many R/H-ers and H/H-ers. I remember several H/H-ers (can't remember who specifically) saying that they don't bicker with their significant other and they wouldn't look for that in a relationship. I for one would not want a completely Calm relationship. -Mo "Well," he sputtered, looking thunderstruck, "well -- that just proves -- completely missed the point--." - Ron Weasley, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com Mon Jan 29 23:28:14 2001 From: slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com (slaybelle_15 at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:28:14 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Neville Longbottom In-Reply-To: <9530f2+l7lc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <954uae+vnum@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11169 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., karob_7 at y... wrote: > QUESTIONS: > > Why is he so forgetful? Some people just don't ahve a knack for remembering things but I doubt that is the only reason. It probably has something to do with what happened to his parents. Not that he had a memory charm or anything (I think this is highly unlikely) but more that it was so traumatic to him that he pushe it out of his mind and it became hard for him to remember things. Don't laugh I've heard of this happenning. > Why is he so terrified of Snape? Snape is a scary guy if you are an easily intimidated person. When I was younger all people who were tall, had dark hair and acted like Snape scared me silly. Combine that with the fact that Snape is the same type of person who caused what happenned to Neville's parents. He most likely fits parts of a mental image Neville has been making since he was a little kid about the person who caused all this to happen to his parents. This would make Snape very scary to Neville even if he wasn't a naturally timid child. > Why doesn't anyone seem to know about his parents? Harry doesn't know about Neville's parents because he never asked why he lived with his grandparents. Probably none of the other students ever asked and Neville didn't want to tell anyone. I assume all of the teachers know Neville's family situation but don't tell the other students or feel that they should talk to Neville about it. > Will he be Professor of Herbology at Hogwarts when he graduates? If he is a professor of anything it would have to be Herbology, wouldn't it? > Does he have any really close friends? He doesn't seem to. Hermione is very nice to him and the other boys seem to be nice to him but he doesn't appear to have any close friends. > Is he a second Peter Pettigrew? Will he betray Harry? Or will he be > loyal? Will he make it through the series alive? There are comparisons to Peter Pettigrew but I think Neville will stay loyal. He has already shown Gryffindor courage and will probably show more. I think he will also make it htrough the series alive and become something really great. --Brigid From john at walton.to Mon Jan 29 23:37:19 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:37:19 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Rock #47 (OT) In-Reply-To: <954t9i+c5mn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11170 msmacgoo at one.net.au wrote: > 1. so a. like a real rock (peice of stone) or b. 'rock' as in sassy, > hoopy, generally cool attitude? No, an actual piece of rock -- a stone, a boulder, a geological extract. Bit O'Planet. > 2. Why is #47 the theoretical maximum? It's a LONG story, and has to do with 47 being the "magic number" in Star Trek -- it keeps cropping up on consoles, ship registration numbers, personnel numbers, that sort of thing. As I said, LONG story. --Rocky == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Mon Jan 29 23:48:58 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:48:58 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione & the Boys Message-ID: <7e.102d8a9b.27a75b6a@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11171 In a message dated 1/29/2001 5:01:13 PM Central Standard Time, morine10 at aol.com writes: > Me: > > > Hermione is bossy and even though she has lightened up considerably and > > will IMO continue to do so, she will always be bossy. > > > Penny: > > Not necessarily. Are you saying that we human beings aren't capable of > > fully eradicating negative personality traits? Ever? > > Never. Actually, I don't think they are ever eradicated, just tweaked. > > She can take her naturally "bossy" nature and transform it into a less > offensive means of helping others. These traits don't go away, but as a > person grows they can learn how to use them constructively. >> > ::::faint:::: You mean I'm not the only one who doesn't think Hermione is perfect and noticed she was still bossy in GoF? Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From lj2d30 at gateway.net Mon Jan 29 23:54:08 2001 From: lj2d30 at gateway.net (lj2d30 at gateway.net) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:54:08 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Neville Longbottom In-Reply-To: <9530f2+l7lc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <954vr0+sdeb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11172 Poor, dear, sweet Neville! I have always liked Neville, even if he doesn't get much air time. He always seems just a couple of seconds behind everyone else. And after GoF, I just wanted to put him in my pocket and take him home with me and tell him that everything will be all right. I think a lot of his "problems" stem from a lack of self-confidence, although he *did* ask Hermione to the Yule Ball. That took a lot of guts, IMO. > QUESTIONS: > > Why is he so forgetful? I think Neville is scared of magic, especially his own. He knows what happened to his parents and how it happened--obviously his mum and dad were pretty powerful wizards. See what happened to them? This could happen to me if I am good at magic. He wants to be a good wizard, but that underlying fear of "what might be" keeps him from blossoming fully and manifests itself in forgetting things. Just let me blend in and get by. Maybe it'll be okay. > > Why is he so terrified of Snape? Snape has a tendency to find his students' weak spots and pick at them time after time. He twits Harry about being the *famous* Harry Potter endlessly, has on several occasions made personal comments about Hermione (the teeth episode in GoF, calls her a "know-it-all" in PoA (I think)) and Neville's self-confidence issues ("My Gran thought I was all-Muggle for ages.") regarding his magical abilities are fodder for Snape. It seems to me that Snape is the only Prof at Hogwarts to degrade Neville constantly, which only makes his already insecure nature even more so. I think he really, really tries in Snape's class, but since Snape makes him nervous and is not easily pleased, he gets more nervous and makes more mistakes. I'd be terrified of Snape in Neville's shoes too. I would love to see the worm turn and have Neville stand up to Snape, but I know this would only happen if Neville's confidence were stronger. > > Why doesn't anyone seem to know about his parents? It's probably such a painful memory for those who knew/worked with/loved the Longbottoms that they don't talk about it, at least not (or especially) in front of the kids. I have feeling that the Hogwarts generation only know the generalities of Voldemort's first reign and all the unspeakable acts done in his name aren't talked of. > > Is he a second Peter Pettigrew? NO Will he betray Harry? NO Or will he be loyal? YES Will he make it through the series alive? Oh I hope so, but I worry about him. He has "Victim" tatooed across his little round face. Trina From cad2 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 00:28:51 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 00:28:51 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Neville Longbottom In-Reply-To: <954uae+vnum@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9551s3+m91g@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11173 >Is he a second Peter Pettigrew? Will he betray Harry? Or will he >be loyal? Will he make it through the series alive? I think he will stay as loyal as he can but I do think that he will either give information while under a truth spell or out of pure terror that will change the lives of one or more of the Hogwarts students. H/H/R would, it seems, rather die themselves than give info that would harm another person. I don't think N is that strong. I do, however, think he will surprise us with some powerful magic in one of the upcoming books. Afterall, both of his parents were powerful. I do get the feeling that he is repressing is own magical powers and intuitions .... I hope he survives and proves that everyone else should have paid more attention to him....... Now that I think about it, I can see him turning on his classmates, though maybe Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle ... By the way, I joined this group only 2-3 weeks ago, not even having finished #1. I finished GoF last night in tears and was so happy with how that book was written. Easily my favorite so far! Cindy From old_wych at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 01:00:52 2001 From: old_wych at yahoo.com (A B) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:00:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Arabella Figg Message-ID: <20010130010052.24377.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11174 I read in the HP Lexicon website about how Arabella Figg might be responsible for watching over Harry while he's at the Dursley's, and there was evidence given for her being a witch, rather than a Muggle. Something else I noticed about her is her association with cabbage: we're told her house smells of cabbage whenever Harry stays there. Cabbage seems to be associated with the magic world. The Polyjuice Potion tastes of over-cooked cabbage, and IIRC, Snape's dungeon smells like cabbage, too. Is this more evidence that Mrs. Figg is no ordinary Muggle. Forgive me if this has been brought up before. I did search the archive and didn't see this mentioned. Anne __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From old_wych at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 00:55:05 2001 From: old_wych at yahoo.com (A B) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 16:55:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Newbie/ Karkaroff's name Message-ID: <20010130005505.9206.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11175 Hello. I'm relatively new to Harry Potter, having just recently read the series, but I really enjoyed it (in fact I read it all again once I'd finished GoF). I also consider myself a fairly serious Tolkien fan. When I read GoF Karkaroff's name struck me as being very similar to Carcharoth (the "ch" is a gutteral sound as in German, not the English sound), an evil wolf in the Silmarillion. For those unfamiliar with Silm., Carcharoth is sent by the original Dark Lord to guard his gates from a great hound, he bites off the hand of one of the heroes and eventually causes this heros' death. Does anyone think there could be possible parallels drawn with Igor Karkaroff? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 30 02:33:10 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 02:33:10 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Weekly summaries Message-ID: <007401c08a65$063a7c00$583670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 11176 As we have quite a few new members here [we have over 800 members now!], I'll take this opportunity to explain that we have two scheduled discussion topics every week - a chapter from GoF and a character from the world of Harry Potter - with lead-off summaries and a few burning questions on each being posted (on Mondays) by a member of the group. The discussions are intended to run alongside any ongoing threads. This week, Karin has already posted excellent summaries on Neville Longbottom and Chapter 28 of GoF, which you may have spotted. I see a few people have already commented on our dear Neville... For information on the schedule for forthcoming weeks, please see the following folder: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Discussion+Summaries/ Thanks. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 30 03:41:25 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 03:41:25 -0000 Subject: The Madness of Mr. Crouch - Shakespearian Connections In-Reply-To: <9530hl+g7ts@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <955d55+3g72@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11177 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., karob_7 at y... wrote: > Chapter 28, The Madness of Mr. Crouch > Many of us have noted the Shakesperian link in the "Priori Incantatem" chapter (specifically Richard III) - I don't know how much of a Shakespearian JKR is, but it seems to me that the "madness" of Crouch in this scene has more to do the Bard than the DSM manual, specifically like both Lady Macbeth and King Lear. Like Lear, Crouch appears in a tangled and dissheveled state; like both Lear and Lady M, he alternates between re-enacting mundane bits of daily business: "and then send another owl to Madame Maxine, because she might want to up the number of students she's bringing........." LEAR When I do stare, see how the subject quakes. I pardon that man's life. What was thy cause? Adultery? Thou shalt not die: die for adultery! No.... (Act IV, Scene VI) as well as intense paroxysms of guilt: CROUCH I..escaped...must warn...must tell...see Dumbledore..my fault..all my fault...Bertha...dead...all my fault... LADY MACBETH The thane of Fife had a wife: where is she now?-- What, will these hands ne'er be clean?--No more o' that, my lord, no more o' that: you mar all with this starting.. (Act V, Scene I) Both JKR and Shakespeare are more interested here in depicting the inner turmoil of the character's innermost soul rather than a clinically accurate dramatization of a psychiatric syndrome (of course, no one in the Elizabethan era would have had the slightest idea of what a "psychiatric syndrome" might be!) . Notice how both writers have their "mad" characters speaking in short jagged fragments of speech - CMC From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 30 03:21:40 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:21:40 -0600 Subject: Ron/Sirius parallels References: <950alk+6j1b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A763344.20FCC307@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11178 Hi -- drmm at fuuko.com wrote: > On a completely unrelated note (well, maybe slightly R/H related as it's a semi-defense of Ron, but not really), I've decided to come up with a bunch of parallels between Ron & > Sirius to confuse the > Ron-dislikers but Sirius-likers . . . Not sure where I fit as I like both Ron and Sirius (to different degrees & for different reasons) but ... > 1. They both have tempers. We've seen *tons* of times that Ron has gotten upset, and Sirius' actions in the Shrieking Shack don't show a whole lot of calmness of mind IMO. A > person with a calmer temperment (and I don't understand why Lupin went along with Sirius) would have > realized that taking Peter to the authorities would be a better action than killing him . . . Someone posted a nice analysis of how PTSD could have been the driving force behind Sirius' persona in PoA (Monika maybe?). Anyway .... I'm not so sure that Sirius really does have a hair-trigger temper. He's portrayed that way in fanfic land quite often (including mine & Carole's ASA), but I think he is considerably different in GoF than in PoA. To be sure, he's still very protective of Harry and impulsive (flying north at the first hint of trouble), but you don't really see the same violent, temper-flaring actions from Sirius in GoF. He's much more the stable, wise, self-sacrificing, protective godfather. So .... all in all, I'm not so sure we can definitely ascribe a hot temper to Sirius. > 2. Fiercely loyal to their friends. Ron *always* loses his temper when his friends are insulted (Malfoy calling Hermione a mudblood, etc.) and when they're in danger (trying to > get Harry to leave in PoA when they think he's a killer, sacrificing himself in the chess game so that Harry & Hermione can continue). Sirius is willing to risk his life to save > Lily & James and is willing to kill the person who betrayed them (although I don't think that's terribly wise or > thoughtful of him). Yes, but the same parallel can be made between Hermione and Sirius. I'm one of the few who paralleled Hermione to Sirius back when we were trying to compare the Trio to the Marauders. Most people paired her up with Lupin because of intellect, although I maintain that since McGonagall said James & Sirius were the brightest students of their year, Lupin must be slightly less intellectual (if relying on grades alone anyway). So .... I think Hermione & Sirius are more alike -- bright, fiercely loyal & steadfast, etc. Hermione is loyal in what I deem a more traditional way than Ron. She behaved poorly in the PoA Crookshanks fight incident, but she was under alot of stress. And, her actions that precipitated that fight were motivated by loyalty/friendship/concern for Harry's welfare. I view Ron's inability to see (or believe when he was presumably specifically told by Hermione) that Harry didn't enter himself into the Tournament as a breach of friendship & loyalty. I think Ron must have been told this by Hermione, since she did initially tell Harry that Ron was jealous. So, I'm guessing she likewise spelled out Harry's position to Ron. I don't dispute that Ron is a loyal friend to both Harry and Hermione. But, I don't think he's *as* loyal (in my traditional interpretation of loyalty) as Hermione is. I think loyalty is one of her principle strengths. Penny From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 30 03:47:23 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 03:47:23 -0000 Subject: Further note on our 'old' Yahoo club (responding to Amanda) In-Reply-To: <954fdv+713h@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <955dgb+ip33@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11179 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Neil Ward" wrote: > Amanda wrote: > > "I keep getting postings from a group, as shown in the message > I've forwarded below as an example--the subject line doesn't show the > [HPforGrownups] that ours does, but it's the same name. > Are they a totally different group?" Would anyone be open to reconstituting HP4GU as a plain old Usenet newsgroup? The disadvantage is that we'd be left open to all variety of spammers. The advantage would be that we wouldn't have to go through all this major hassle whenever Yahoo decides to have a paradigm shift. - CMC From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 30 03:36:57 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:36:57 -0600 Subject: In defense of Ginny and such References: <951qjp+h8hh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A7636D9.A6F54150@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11180 Hi -- moongirlk at yahoo.com wrote: > She was, however, conscious while corresponding with him for nearly a > whole school year. I think she'd have had the chance to learn > *something* about him. Especially when his plan was for her not to > survive - it's a classic evil overloard thing to do - give something > away when you're planning to kill the person, only for the person to > escape. So far Voldemort's main weaknesses have involved pride, in my > > view. Well, these are all good points. But, I do take her later account of events as basically saying that she was very victimized by Riddle. I had the impression that he more or less "took control" of her, in which case she may not have conscious memories of anything he might have let slip. But, you do make a good point about their correspondence and the fact that he intended she would die in the Chamber eventually. > I think the point was just that she's a little bit more > than a throw-away character used as a polt device in CoS, and probably > > at least as useful as Buckbeak to the story as a whole. She's got the > > potential to be a real part of the fight, and to show Harry and the > reader that she's more than just a giggling redheaded child (although > I quite liked her even when that's all she was). If the other > characters get to grow and evolve, then Ginny probably will too, > provided she's not killed off on page 1 of book 5. Oh, I don't disagree that she has *potential*. But, lots of people predicted a much larger role for Ginny in GoF, and it didn't come to pass. So, I'm not sure that she isn't a "red herring" (a character who appears to be potentially important but really will serve no major purpose in the plot). I wouldn't mind seeing her developed more -- It'd be especially interesting to see how she would compare to her fanfic self. :--) > Agreed - Harry saved her life. I don't really see that changing the > fact that she might be useful. Harry and Ron saved Hermione's life > when the troll had her cornered, and Hermione wasn't exactly > displaying her character strengths at the time, while cowering in the > corner. She's sure proven quite useful since then, however, and has > plenty of strenght of character that was not displayed at that time, > but showed up immediately after. Surely you agree with that? :) Someone (not Kimberly) had asserted that Harry didn't necessarily save her (or that was what I took away from that post). That was what prompted that comment in my message. I definitely don't dispute that having had her life saved by Harry doesn't prevent her from being an important strong character at some point later. I was merely trying to clarify that her life was saved by Harry in CoS - it seems indisputable to me that she would have eventually died down there. > I'm of the opinion that he did confide something - I'm not talking > deep dark secrets, necessarily. He showed Harry a pretty vulnerable > moment in his life (begging the headmaster not to send him back to the > > orphanage) in just the short encounter they had. Granted he showed > that to manipulate Harry, but that's exactly why I think he may have > told Ginny other things - to manipulate her into his trust. I just > think that in all those months Ginny must have learned something, even > > if she doesn't recognize it's significance yet. Another good point. > Everyone has vulnerabilities - I don't believe for a minute that the > 16 year old Tom Riddle was invulnerable - if he were, he'd never have > made the mistakes he did later on. No, I wasn't arguing that he was invulnerable. I was really just saying that I have my doubts that he was revealing those vulnerabilities to Ginny that year. But, who knows? Maybe you'll turn out to be right. > I believe that Ginny is going to have significance in the stories in > the future, and that it may be in this way. I also believe that CoS > must have had some significance to the growth of the Story as a whole, > > and that Ginny would never have been made a plot device and nothing > more. If JKR didn't have any further use for her, she could have just > > let her die down there. Well, letting her live served several purposes for CoS. But, Ginny hasn't exactly been a front-lines player since then. I'm not positive but I would wager that she had about equal time in PoA and GoF (which was double the length of PoA). The Trio also actively cut her out of their activities in GoF, which doesn't bode well for her being a really active member of the action in later books. They hushed up about Sirius when she was around (Hermione threw Ron a look to keep him quiet), and Harry purposefully waited until Hermione finished breakfast with Ginny one morning before dragging Hermione off on a walk, alone. I just have a hard time picturing her becoming all that important. I know JKR has said we'll learn more about her (or something along those lines), but I guess I picture more what we learned about Bill & Charlie in GoF. We learned more about each of them, but neither was integral to the plot. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 03:51:22 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (harry_potter00 at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 03:51:22 -0000 Subject: The Death of Cedric Message-ID: <955dnq+hgi3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11181 In re-reading the canon I found that I had several thoughts/questions about the death of Cedric. I know that Jo has stated in past interviews that it was very difficult for her to write Cedric's death and that she cried. My question is did we as readers find Cedric's death that emotional? I personally didn't. It is not that I've never or don't find books emotionally moving, and it's certainly not that I've never cried. It's just that Cedric's death didn't really do that. He was alive and then he was dead. I have to agree that it's unsettling the way AK works, but doesn't make for a good literary death scene. Another question I had is whether Cedric's death is extraneous to the plot, or will later become central? Did he HAVE to die? Not exactly, at least IMO. I mean his death shows the reality of evil, and that Voldemort doesn't care who he kills. It also, as Peg once eloquently pointed out, took Harry's noblest decision and made it the greatest tragedy (in the canon so far, or will someone go against this?). Cedric is also (argubly-sp?) the first person to be killed in the Second Voldemort War (SVW or VWII as we've dubbed it). He's not a martyr (as he didn't even know what was happening) but perhaps his death will serve as an inspiration for others to fight in the future. In the long run Jo Rowling IS more invested in the characters than we are, like it or not! (She is the one to breath life into them after all.) That, when it boils down to it, is most likely why she was so affected. Maybe I'm not invested in the characters enough to me moved to tears by the death of Cedric. Would anyone like to point out why the death of Cedric was or was not needed to forward the plot? Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 30 03:41:01 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:41:01 -0600 Subject: Edition vs. Printing References: <9525bf+k1mg@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A7637CD.54469B33@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11182 Hi -- msmacgoo at one.net.au wrote: > ok, so a really OT question. - what's the difference between a > 'edition' and a 'printing'? I thought that the former was changed > everytime changes were made to the text and the later merely related > to any given print run. .... If that is the case I think I'm finally > getting what you were all talking about a few weeks ago about this > .... I don't think this is all that topic -- it bears on collecting HP books after all. Anyway, Lori or someone a bit more familiar may have more details than I do, but here goes. I believe that a book goes into a 2nd edition when truly major substantive changes are made (or if it's been out-of-print & goes back to press, I believe it becomes a later edition). Minor corrections, revisions, etc. can be made without the necessity of going to a new "edition." So, the 1st print run may be reasonably different than the 32nd print run, but they are both "first editions." Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 30 03:44:19 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 03:44:19 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Newbie/ Karkaroff's name References: <20010130005505.9206.qmail@web5205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00be01c08a6e$edc32a00$583670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 11183 Anne (AB) said: "Cabbage seems to be associated with the magic world. The Polyjuice Potion tastes of over-cooked cabbage, and IIRC, Snape's dungeon smells like cabbage, too. Is this more evidence that Mrs. Figg is no ordinary Muggle. Forgive me if this has been brought up before." "When I read GoF Karkaroff's name struck me as being very similar to Carcharoth (the "ch" is a gutteral sound as in German, not the English sound), an evil wolf in the Silmarillion. For those unfamiliar with Silm., Carcharoth is sent by the original Dark Lord to guard his gates from a great hound, he bites off the hand of one of the heroes and eventually causes this heros' death. Does anyone think there could be possible parallels drawn with Igor Karkaroff?" ** Welcome Anne! We have had some discussions about the significance of Mrs Figg, but I don't recall other cabbage references being noted, specifically. Maybe it's a bit like socks - a recurring theme that may or may not be hinting at something - or perhaps it's just JKR's pet hate translating itself into print. Your point about Karkaroff's name is really interesting! That *has* to be more than a coincidence. Talking of Karkaroff and dogs, when Harry, under his invisibility cloak, bumps into Karkaroff by the edge of the forest, K is confused, but.. "After a minute or so, Karkaroff seemed to decide that he had hit some sort of animal; he was looking around at waist height, as though expecting to see a dog." Did he think it was Sirius? Hmmm, I think I need to re-read GoF. Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From pennylin at swbell.net Tue Jan 30 04:07:13 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 22:07:13 -0600 Subject: Shippiness References: <200101290336.f0T3ajC18074@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A763DF1.DBD1E96@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11184 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > I don't think you'll get much opposition from the Good Ship R/H on > this one. (In fact, I think the one things the two ships can agree on > is that we love Hermione and want to see her with the right guy-we > just disagree over who the right guy for her is!) I agree with most of the above. But, you might want to poll your fellow ship-mates, because I think you have some folks on board who pretty actively dislike Hermione. But, in general, I agree that the ships just disagree about who is the "right guy" for Hermione. :--) > > Gosh, thanks. You're welcome to visit anytime...as long as you're > nice to Ron. Denigration of Weasleys of any kind will not be tolerated > on the Good Ship R/H. Violators of this rule shall be forced to walk > the plank. > > And Penny replied: > >Oh well. I guess I won't be allowed a friendly visit even since I > don't > believe Ron (or any Weasley) is perfect and therefore immune from > criticism (any more than Harry or Hermione is). > > Now, Penny, play fair. J I never said that criticizing Ron or any > Weasley for that matter was wrong-we know he's not perfect! But you > know my pet peeve is the Ron-is-less-than-Harry (or anyone) argument, > and I'm pulling rank as captain and banning that from our ship! > Anyone who wants to have a Ron-bashing party is welcome to do it on > their own liner. I'm playing fair! Honest! Actually, I think I took "denigrate" to mean "criticize." Having just looked it up, it means more to "defame." So, okay, just to clarify ... I can visit the Good Ship R/H without fear of being forced to walk to the plank if I criticize Ron (or another Weasley) as long as I don't cross the line into defamation? I think I might want a clear standard of defamation before boarding the Good Ship R/H in any case. > Penny again: > >Well .... "burden of proof" is a legal term. Ahem. You all still > haven't met your "burden of proof" to show that Hermione likes Ron > back. > > Sigh. I thought we agreed on that at least, that Hermione's feelings > are an unknown. You haven't met the burden of proof to prove that she > likes Harry either. What I really meant by my original comment was > that, in my experience at least, R/H-ers tend not to have the need to > convert others that seems to accompany H/H-ism. (no offense intended > to anyone here of course! It's just my observation) I agree that Hermione's feelings are an unknown -- that's why neither side has met their "burden of proof." I've now forgotten (admittedly) what triggered my original comment re: BOP, but rest assured, we are still agreed that Hermione's feelings are the unknown in the equation. Why are we back to the conversion stuff? :--) We H/H'ers just like to have *our* views known (just like the R/H'ers I might add). So, why is it equated with "missionary converting zeal" when the H/H'ers include analysis, but the R/H'ers can analyze all day long without getting that tag? > Penny again: > >He no doubt appreciates the fact that it has been Hermione who was > more > >steadfastly loyal to him than Ron. And, he most definitely > appreciates the help she gives him with summoning charms & the > curses/spells for the 3rd Task. > > Oh really? And what evidence is there of this? One of the things > that > annoyed me most in GoF was Harry's lack of realization of Hermione's > steadfast friendship. The one perspective we do have in the books is > Harry's, and I didn't see him thinking either of the things you have > asserted. Well, he might not have "thought" it out loud for the reader. But, he did say to Hermione, "Hermione, I need your help! I need to learn how to do summoning charms properly." In other words, he knows she'll help him -- he knows he can count on her. Yes, it'd be nice if he told her so, but I figure his actions (reliance on her when the going gets tough) speaks for him in alot of ways. > Penny said: > > What I objected to in Trina's message was again relying strictly on > evidence > that suggests that Ron likes >Hermione & just transferring > >reciprocal feelings to Hermione without really analyzing whether > that's > well-placed or not. > > And I object to using the Hermione-may-have-feelings-for-Harry > argument as a basis for H/H for the same reason. Harry may be boring > to me right now, but he's a person too! J I use Herminone-may-have-feelings-for-Harry as a basis for FITD, not necessarily H/H. I think though that FITD would eventually play out as H/H at some point later (or at least potentially). But, my main point is that I don't think Hermione likes Ron, which leaves R/H dead in the water for the time being. He might be able to persuade her otherwise ... but for now, my money is on the notion that her cap is set for Harry. > Does anyone think that H/V is really going to happen, or was it just a > device to get Ron's feelings to the surface? You really think Hermione agreed to go to the Yule Ball with Viktor to try & get Ron to notice her? Her actions at the Ball speak differently. IMO, she genuinely was pleased that someone had noticed her as a girl, and I don't think she's the type person who would go in for that sort of ploy. I think she liked him well enough to go to the Ball with him. I do think she was a bit discomfited by the serious nature of his feelings for her -- I think it was more than she was ready for. But, we don't know whether she visited him that summer yet or not. I don't think it has lasting potential, but I think Hermione was genuine about her feelings for him (liked him well enough to get to know him better & be his Yule Ball date). > I, for one, am not "disquieted" by the idea of H/H; in fact, I think > it's rather dull and too HGTG . I never > understood why H/H-ers think R/H is "the easy way out" or some such. Okay, I'll bite. What's HGTG? :--) I don't think R/H is the "easy way out." I think it's a surface-text interpretation, while the subtext fairly screams FITD to me. > I have been trying to find a book I read right after I got married > that > postulated that there are 3 basic kinds of marriages: "Calm" (not the > word the author used, but that was basically what he/she meant); > "Volatile" (that I remember exactly); and "Dysfunctional". This > author's position was that only the third type was unhappy. In the > Calm type, the partners do just about anything to achieve consensus > and very often are uncomfortable with conflict. In the Volatile type, > the partners often fight and scream at one another, but then move on. > In the Dysfunctional type, the screaming and fighting is about > sabotaging each other, not getting things out ing the open. I > remember this well because my husband and I most definitaly fall into > the second category and I felt it wasn't "right" somehow until I read > that and realized that it works for us. People in the first type > would probably not feel comfortable > with that, but that's okay. Anyway, the point here is that R/H would > definitely be the second type. Maybe that's why it appeals to me. I think this is definitely a big part of what separates the H/H types & the R/H types. I have a "Calm" marriage. I cannot even fathom the Volatile type. Sure, I know people who fall into that category, and although we always shake our heads & think they surely must be on the precipice of divorce, it seems to work for some people. R/H -- not definitely Volatile. Might well disintegrate into Dysfunction (just like Calm marriages could fall into Dysfunction for different reasons). :--) Penny otherwise known as Captain of the H/H Cruiseline [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From coriolan at worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 30 05:27:17 2001 From: coriolan at worldnet.att.net (coriolan at worldnet.att.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 05:27:17 -0000 Subject: The Death of Cedric In-Reply-To: <955dnq+hgi3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <955jbl+j38s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11185 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., harry_potter00 at y... wrote: > In re-reading the canon I found that I had several thoughts/questions > about the death of Cedric. I know that Jo has stated in past > interviews that it was very difficult for her to write Cedric's death > and that she cried. My question is did we as readers find Cedric's > death that emotional? I personally didn't. My guess is that it wasn't so much Cedric per se who moved JKR to tears, but rather that an irrevocable line has now been crossed - the HP story has advanced to a point where the death of its supporting protagonists at the hands of its antogonists has become not merely a possibility but a likelihood. in Hamlet, the first victim is Polonius - for whom the audience cares little - but the next victim is Ophelia, for whom we care a great deal more. I have the feeling - and perhaps my affinity for the Elizabethan/Jacobean theatre predisposes me to say as much - that there will be starting in Vol. 5 the death of some positive characters that is going to be very upsetting for all of us: and that's when we will shed the tears JKR shed anticipating the future mayhem in her narrative. - CMC From catlady at wicca.net Tue Jan 30 05:36:34 2001 From: catlady at wicca.net (Catlady) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:36:34 -0800 Subject: Chapter - "Offense" - R. Skeeter - Snape/Slytherin - Madness - Cedric Message-ID: <3A7652E1.92B71E7@wicca.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11186 Karin wrote: > Snape finds Harry outside of Dumbledore's office and tells him > Dumbledore is busy. After a bit of arguing, Dumbledore comes > out of his office, and when he hears what Harry has to say, > asks Harry to lead the way, leaving Snape standing behind, angry. This is something I never understand. By this time (GoF), Snape definitely should have noticed already that Harry only tries to see Dumbledore when he has good reason, information for D that D wants to know, info against V. So if Snape really is loyal to the Light Side and/or Dumbledore, how could he let his desire to spite Harry interfere with what is good for Dumbledore and the Light Side? I suppose this is an excuse for me to yet again suggest that someone (other than me) write an omniscient version of GoF which shows that *Snape* is the Death Eater loyally serving V at Hogwarts -- Crouch Jr really was an innocent man falsely convicted -- Moody really was Moody but on the day of the Maze, Snape put him under Imperius Curse to do that bad stuff -- while Harry was in graveyard, Snape knocked out Moody and put him in the trunk and Polyjuiced young Crouch and put Imperius Curse on young Crouch (or simply hypnotised him as to what he was to do and what story he was to tell) -- Snape made FAKE Veritaserum, so young Crouch's word cannot be trusted as truthful -- Snape set the Dementor on young Crouch to avoid discovery of Crouch's innocence and Snape's scheme. I haven't yet figured out the alternate interpretations of Crouch Sr, Winky, and the Dark Mark at the World Cup. Lori wrote: > Well, it is just a theory. No need to get offended. I don't let being offended stop me from reading, enjoying, and admiring PoU and STNE. I continue to be part of the chorus that sings the praises of Lori Summers, fanfic author. bbennett wrote: > Relax and enjoy, and think of something to be properly offended by, > such as a Crabbe/Goyle/Draco/Millicent Balstrode love quadrangle > story. It's all for fun ;^) See above. Besides, I'm not offended by the suggestion of a Crabbe/Goyle/Malfoy/Bulstrode love quadrangle (which one is Draco in love with?), I just think that Vincent and Gregory are content to share Millicent, Millicent is content with only two studs, and Draco finds Millicent the LEAST attractive of the three mentioned ... I had some hope of finding a place in my story for a scene where Pansy reveals to Draco that she knows more about his scorecard than he knew she knew, and I had been going to have her say that he'd 'had' every girl in her dorm, half the girls in Slytherin House, two Ravenclaws, and a Hufflepuff named Donna, but then realised that Millicent is in Pansy's dorm.... Storm Snuffles MacGoo wrote: > Btw, what house do you think Rita Skitter was in? It seems to me that she's an obvious Slytherin: she doesn't let anything (like truthfulness, kindness, the law) stop her from getting what she wants (a scoop, ink). I also believe that Gilderoy Lockhart was an obvious Slytherin, altho' many people protested that he wasn't magic enough to have gone to Hogwarts. Monika Z. wrote: > would two Muggles call their son "Severus"? It sounds like a typically > magical name; If one of the Muggles was named Caligula (the name I gave to Goyle Sr in my fic). > I believe Snape was in Slytherin (though it's not clearly stated anywhere), I agree: canonical evidence is Sirius in GoF: "He hung out with a group of Slytherins who all became Death Eaters", and we haven't seen anyone in canon hang out with a group all from another House. My theory is: only a person who was a student in a House is allowed to be Master of that House. > and I also have the impression that a 100% Muggle-borns are not > accepted there I can't imagine that the Sorting Hat wouldn't put a person with Slytherin personality into Slytherin House just because of hiser ancestry. Altho' ol' Salazar would disapprove and nowdays the other Slytherin students might make the Mudblood's life miserable ... were they ALWAYS so bigotted? Jim Ferer wrote: > I sorta wish we could get "PTSD" out of this discussion. They don't > have the DSM at Hogwarts. We all agree Harry's going to go through > hell. If they had the DSM at Hogwarts, it wouldn't match their mental illnesses at all. People in the magic world 'go mad' in different ways and for different reasons than Muggles do. Example of Longbottoms gone mad and unable to recognize their own son because of experiencing an excess of physical pain, and what CMC says below about The Madness of Mr. Crouch. (Admiration for having been a paramedic.) Caius Marcus wrote: > Both JKR and Shakespeare are more interested here in depicting > the inner turmoil of the character's innermost soul rather than a > clinically accurate dramatization of a psychiatric syndrome (of > course, no one in the Elizabethan era would have had the slightest > idea of what a "psychiatric syndrome" might be!) harrypotter00 wrote: > My question is did we as readers find Cedric's death that emotional? *I* did. I cried. JKR had done such a good job of displaying Cedric as a truly nice person, embarrassed by his awful father, and not being huffy with Harry when all the other Hufflepuffs were hating him, and of displaying Cho as a nice person and the two of them as a nice couple... and then his death was so *useless* so *trivial* so *callous* -- the cook wringing the neck of a chicken for dinner probably feels more emotion about it!!! So far, all we know is that JKR said there must be deaths (cruel callous unheroic deaths -- my words) in order to depict evil accurately, because softening the depiction of evil makes it look not so bad. So far, we haven't seen any reason the story wouldn't have been the same (but somewhat less tragic for Harry et al) if Cedric just hadn't reached the Cup, therefore hadn't been Portkeyed, therefore hadn't been killed. But we may learn different in a future volume: that Ced's death freed up Cho for Harry or sent Cho into a frenzy of vengeance against Harry, that Amos makes a deal with V to betray his friends & the Light Side if V promises to bring his son back to life, that digging a fresh grave in the Diggory family plot turns up a treasure chest that had been hidden/buried there since the latest Diggory family funeral and something in that treasure chest is important to the plot ... not that *I* am clever enough to come up with a reason that the treasure chest couldn't have been found by a gardener digging up a flower bed rather than by a sexton digging up a grave.... -- /\ /\ + + Mews and views >> = << from Rita Prince Winston ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-' _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' (((' (((-((('' (((( From mschub at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 06:34:28 2001 From: mschub at yahoo.com (mschub at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:34:28 -0000 Subject: Dursleys/Hogwarts Attendance/Canary Creams Message-ID: <955n9k+sdcs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11187 Alright... There's no WAY the Dursleys would ever send anything by owl post. And there's no WAY that any Muggle postman knows where Hogwarts is. So how do the Dursleys' Christmas presents, meager though they may be, get to Harry on Christmas? Secondary thought: What happens if a child gets a letter saying they've been accepted and the parents decide not to let them go? I mean, obviously, Harry was going to go whether the Dursleys gave the OK or not. But what about your more run-of-the-mill wizard-kids, who haven't defeated any Dark Lords? We hear Draco talking about the possibility of his being sent to Durmstrang. So is it possible that some parents (I would assume mostly Muggle parents) choose not to send their kids to Hogwarts? And would this screw up the wizarding population estimates? Also, just as an addendum to the transfiguration/animagi thing, what about Gred and Forge's Canary Creams? They would seem to be a "wandless magic" (although I suppose they could fall under the heading of Potions, as they must be ingested to work), and it's something that Fred and George are able to do. Now, they're no dummies, but they're no Percy either. Just a thought. -Mike From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Mon Jan 29 16:34:22 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:34:22 +0100 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius Message-ID: <01c08a11$5613f700$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11188 >Monika said: >>Well, I rather imagine Black full of adrenaline in that scene. Got nothing >>to support this, you know, it's just my weird imagination. > >I'll have to support what Carole has said, Sirius must have been in a >state of (clinical) shock at that time. As I said, it's just my imagination. Plus perhaps my belief that *I* wouldn't go after somebody in the state of clinical shock. >Maybe he [Pettigrew] wasn't hopeless, but anyone could have defeated Black that >night, it wasn't a big deal given the state he was in. Well, not anyone, I don't think I could ;-) But you agreed that Peter "maybe wasn't helpless" and that's was all I was arguing about... >That's one POV, I have another one: his hands may have trembled, but >mostly of fear. I know that it sounds weird, but I really don't think >that rage and fury were Sirius' predominant feelings in this moment. >He was slow to react because of the shock. I guess you like your POV as much as I like mine. There's no use to try to convince my imagination to see anything it doesn't want to see, so I think we'll both stick to our visions. After a second thought I must admit that *shock* theory better explains Sirius's laughter than *rage* one, but my imagination never listens to reason. >>It's my belief >>that James was his "best friend", Remus and Peter were just "friends". I >>don't see Sirius as a lad who could truly befriend somebody who >>hero-worshippes him. > >Where do you get the idea that Remus hero-worshipped Sirius? I meant Peter only, sorry I wasn't more specific. >I always >thought that Remus was as important to Sirius as James was, don't >forget that Remus was the reason they all became Animagi. I think he >must have been *very* important to both James and Sirius to try this >tremendously difficult magic. My version is that James has done for Remus and Sirius participated for the fun of the thing. > >>I think that seemingly intelligent boy of sixteen should do >>some thinking before sending a colleague to death or fate not much better >>than it. > >Well, teenage boys aren't very sensitive most of the time, they are >some sort of "hormone bombs" (sorry to all you guys, I know there are >exceptions to this rule :-)) ready to go off at any time. I think you >see this from your adult and female POV. This is not only "adult female" POV, it's also a "Fanatic Snape-fan" POV... Anyway, I'm afraid that if they were Muggles, and a "joke" like that ended up with another lad's death, the police and a judge for juveniles wouldn't treat it merely as a result of "hormone bombs". But perhaps my support for Snape alters my POV too much... But why, after 20 years (including 12 years in Azkaban) Sirius still says that "it served him right"? Monika Z. From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Tue Jan 30 08:19:08 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:19:08 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Re: book 5 - why so late?! Message-ID: <01c08a95$511eb120$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11189 >Hi, based upon what I've read, Book 5 won't be out until 2002. Oh nooo... I was planning to go to England in November, simply to buy The Book, watch The Movie and perhaps, if I was lucky enough, see Rickman onstage. And now you're telling me I'm to wait till next year? >However, Rowling has written "Quidditch Through the Ages" and >Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them". Both books will be released >this March. You might want to reserve your copies if you haven't done >so already. I'll do it. And I think I'll order book 5, too and go to London in pursuit of more *visual* pleasures... Monika Z. From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 08:25:15 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:25:15 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius In-Reply-To: <01c08a11$5613f700$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <955tpb+qepa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11190 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: > Re: Pettigrew vs. Sirius.... I would guess that another factor would be that Sirius just wasn't expecting Pettigrew to fire *behind* him. I mean, that's not the usual situation in a duel. > > > > >>I think that seemingly intelligent boy of sixteen should do > >>some thinking before sending a colleague to death or fate not much better > >>than it. > > > >Well, teenage boys aren't very sensitive most of the time, they are > >some sort of "hormone bombs" (sorry to all you guys, I know there are > >exceptions to this rule :-)) ready to go off at any time. I think you > >see this from your adult and female POV. > > This is not only "adult female" POV, it's also a "Fanatic Snape- fan" POV... > Anyway, I'm afraid that if they were Muggles, and a "joke" like that ended > up with another lad's death, the police and a judge for juveniles wouldn't > treat it merely as a result of "hormone bombs". But perhaps my support for > Snape alters my POV too much... > But why, after 20 years (including 12 years in Azkaban) Sirius still says > that > "it served him right"? > Perhaps he felt even more resentful towards Snape after the denouement of PoA (also known as the scene where JKR made *very* frequent use of the caps lock key). BTW, speaking of the events of fifteen or sixteen years past, what did Pettigrew and Snape think of each other at school? Did they a) sort of ignore/indifferent to each other or b) did Snape pick on Pettigrew much like Draco does Neville? If it's b, well, considering the theme of conflict of the past revisted in the present, or petty schooltime rivalries transfigured into life and death situations, Sirius's grudge against him could be the least of Snape's worries. Charmian....pointless speculation galore! From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Tue Jan 30 09:34:12 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:34:12 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Snape and Light Side Message-ID: <01c08a9f$cdbfb4e0$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11191 >> Snape finds Harry outside of Dumbledore's office and tells him >> Dumbledore is busy. After a bit of arguing, Dumbledore comes >> out of his office, and when he hears what Harry has to say, >> asks Harry to lead the way, leaving Snape standing behind, angry. > >This is something I never understand. By this time (GoF), Snape >definitely should have noticed already that Harry only tries to see >Dumbledore when he has good reason, information for D that D wants to >know, info against V. Why? To my best knowledge, the three of them met in one place only four times before: when Harry and Ron arrived at Hogwarts in Mr. Wesley's ford; second time, after Mrs. Norris was petrified and Dumbledore was examinining her in Lockhart's office; third time after Black escaped ("This...has...something ...to do... with Potter!" - the best example of intuitive deduction there is in all four books, IMO) and fourth time, after Harry became fourth champion in Triwizard Tournament. In first case, Harry was the guilty party. In the other three, he was not, but Snape didn't have to believe it - there weren't any solid proofs of Harry's innocence. Keeping Harry in front of Dumbledore's door was just a little malice. I don't believe that Snape would be able to keep old D. from Harry, even if he wanted to. >I suppose this is an excuse for me to yet again suggest that someone >(other than me) write an omniscient version of GoF which shows that >*Snape* is the Death Eater loyally serving V at Hogwarts Oh dear, what a hard thing to read for a Snape fan... And be warned: I'm almost fanatic :-) >Moody really was Moody >but on the day of the Maze, Snape put him under Imperius Curse to do >that bad stuff -- while Harry was in graveyard, Snape knocked out Moody >and put him in the trunk Wonder why Moody didn't tell Dumbledore about it after he was freed. And wonder why nobody noticed that one of the teachers who were patrolling the maze suddenly went missing with a little help from another teacher... >and Polyjuiced young Crouch and put Imperius >Curse on young Crouch (or simply hypnotised him as to what he was to do >and what story he was to tell) What was Barty Jr. doing at Hogwarts? And believe me - if they weren't cooperating, Snape wouldn't have time to hypnotise Crouch into telling all this things- he'd have to hypnotise Barty, tell him the story and order him to repeat it to Dumbledore. And, of course, he'd have to guess what Dumbledore would be asking for... > Snape made FAKE Veritaserum, so young >Crouch's word cannot be trusted as truthful Hey, maybe he invented a "tell-a-probable-fairy-tale-which-matches-Potter's-story" Potion? I always supposed the guy is a genius, now I know that ;-) >Snape set the Dementor on >young Crouch to avoid discovery of Crouch's innocence and Snape's >scheme. He also bewitched McGonagall, I guess, because she clearly accused Fudge. >I haven't yet figured out the alternate interpretations of >Crouch Sr, Winky, and the Dark Mark at the World Cup. Here's some help - once upon the time, Snape was bored. In order to amuse himself, he taught Winky how to conjure the Dark Mark. Winky tried this out at the World Cup, but Crouch Sr. caught the wind of things and tried to get Snape punished for his horrible action. Unfortunately, Dumbledore wouldn't believe that his Potions master could do such an awful thing. Crouch tried several ways to punish Severus, but none of them worked. Finally, Snape's impunity started to get on his nerves. And one day he went to Hogwarts, only to die from the fangs of a huge bat... I can imagine a couple of other stories, each worse than this one. So beware! Monika Z. From simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk Tue Jan 30 09:49:59 2001 From: simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk (Simon) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:49:59 -0000 Subject: A Logo for HP for Grown Ups Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11192 Hello All; For a while now various members of this group have been undertaking the project of taking the thousands of messages posted to this group, and its predecessor on Yahoo, and turning the hundreds of topics discussed within these messages into a selection of documents on the subject that we all love - that is of course Harry Potter and all things connected with the books. With every successful group there has to be, and needs to be, an eye-catching and instantly recognizable logo. This is where we need the help of you, the members of this group. If you would like to a design a logo to be used in conjunction with the FAQs, group related activities, the group homepage, and its sister groups homepages, then this is the time to act. Then, in a couple of weeks time, we will all have the chance to partake in the democratic process of voting to choose the logo that will be used to represent this group (and no recounts will be allowed!). As with all great competitions there are a few rules that will need to take notice of for your logo to be deemed eligible for entry. 1) The logo must be no greater in size than 250 by 200 pixels and saved in either gif (.gif) or jpeg (.jpg/.jpeg) format. 2) No animated logos will be considered eligible. 3) Due to legal reasons the moderators reserve the right to deem any logo ineligible for the competition. We, as a group, are not allowed to use images from the books or Warner Brother merchandise, so to save your time and ours do not enter anything of this nature. The logo may not use the official font or any part of the cover designs from the books. 4) The logo is to be canonically based. 5) The logo is to contain one of the following as part of its design: Potter for Grown Ups, HP for Grown Ups, HPforGU or HP4GU. 6) Logos must be submitted to the logo folder on the graphics group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownUps-Graphics) by midday (GMT) on the 15th February. The file description is to include your name or Yahoo id so that we can contact you if required. 7) When posting the logos there is no need to either inform the group or to set the option to send an automated message to the graphics group. 8) When an entrant uploads a logo to the Graphics group for entry into this competition, he/she thereby assigns to the HPforGrownups group, and the moderators therefore (the "Group"), all rights in and to the logo (if selected as the group's logo in the final voting process) for all purposes, worldwide and in any media, without any compensation, monetary or otherwise, to said creator, including all copyright and trademark rights. 9) If you have any comments or queries regarding this competition then please contact Simon at simon.branford at hertford.ox.ac.uk - including, in the subject line: HP4GU - LOGO. 10) Void where prohibited by law. We look forward to receiving your entries. The Moderators and FAQers. From naama_gat at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 10:01:39 2001 From: naama_gat at hotmail.com (naama_gat at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:01:39 -0000 Subject: The worst experience? was Re: Post-Hogwarts PTSD In-Reply-To: <954s06+v8ab@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9563e3+mabh@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11193 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Jim Ferer" wrote: > > I think that what will save Harry this time is that he was able to do > something about it. He resisted Voldemort, and in a very real way he > defeated him by keeping his life and getting away. He was even able to > do something for Cedric by bringing his body back. Harry's suffering > had a purpose, and I think that makes a critical difference. > > There's a lot worse that can happen -- watching the people he loves > die and suffer, especially if it's for nothing, or if Harry "fails" to > save them. > > I was a paramedic once in my misspent youth. I was never troubled > long-term by cases where my skill and work were of some use. I even > could deal with cases that no one could have helped. But when I felt I > had been defeated, I was torn up. > > I sorta wish we could get "PTSD" out of this discussion. They don't > have the DSM at Hogwarts. We all agree Harry's going to go through > hell. PTSD has left the building (see new subject). I agree with you, Jim, that being able to resist and fight makes an enormous difference. I made this very same point in my first post on the issue. What you say about worse things that can happen sounds very reasonable (watching someone you love die and not being able to help..). Its logical, but my feeling is still that the graveyard scene is the worst horror that Harry (and we) will encounter. I think this feeling of mine has more to do with aesthetic intuition than with real life. Yes, it may be possible, in reality, to experience greater pain and horror (I'm not sure, though), since, in real life, there doesn't seem to be any limit on pain-horror-despair. In HP type of fiction, however, there is. In a story, the hero faces true despair only once. Since the hero overcomes this supreme horror, nothing will ever hold such terror for him again. Thats why, even if really bad stuff happens later in the story, it doesn't tax the hero to the extreme again. For me this is exemplified by Bilbo's first encounter with Smaug: "'Is that a kind of glow I seem to see coming right ahead down there?' he thought. It was. As he went forward it grew and grew, till there was no doubt about it. It was a red light steadily getting redder and redder. ...A sound, too, began to throb in his ears, a sort of bubbling like the noise of a large pot galloping on the fire, mixed with a rumble as of a gigantic tom-cat purring. This grew to the unmistakable gurgling noise of some vast animal snoring in its sleep down there in the red glow in front of him. It was at this point that Bilbo stopped. Going on from there was the bravest thing he ever did. The tremendous things that happened afterwards were as nothing compared to it." Somewhere in the structure of the heroic tale is that there is *one* crisis. In HP I believe it is the graveyard scene. To put Harry through something worse (horror wise, not grief wise) is to take leave of the logic of the heroic tale and adopt horror film logic (where the viewer thinks he's seen the worst, only to be shocked a minute later by worse horror). All this is very nebulous and its more intuition than anything else. I would very much appreciate other peoples take on this. Naama From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 30 10:14:11 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:14:11 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Netiquette tips (please read) In-Reply-To: <00b301c089b5$e20f18e0$163370c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <95645j+2bdn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11194 SWINE! your days are numbered! How come no one pays any attention to my posts that are designed to break all the rules? sigh..susan From Schlobin at aol.com Tue Jan 30 10:17:55 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:17:55 -0000 Subject: Arabella Figg In-Reply-To: <20010130010052.24377.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9564cj+g0fa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11195 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., A B wrote: > I read in the HP Lexicon website about how Arabella > Figg might be responsible for watching over Harry > while he's at the Dursley's, and there was evidence > given for her being a witch, rather than a Muggle. > Something else I noticed about her is her association > with cabbage: we're told her house smells of cabbage > whenever Harry stays there. Cabbage seems to be > associated with the magic world. The Polyjuice Potion > tastes of over-cooked cabbage, and IIRC, Snape's > dungeon smells like cabbage, too. Is this more > evidence that Mrs. Figg is no ordinary Muggle. Forgive > me if this has been brought up before. I did search > the archive and didn't see this mentioned. > > Anne > Anne, right on! (dating myself) i think the cabbage issue is new.. congratulations From neilward at dircon.co.uk Tue Jan 30 11:40:49 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:40:49 -0000 Subject: Ode to Susan McGee (was re: Netiquette etc.) In-Reply-To: <95645j+2bdn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <956981+ckcr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11196 Susan wrote: > SWINE! your days are numbered! > > How come no one pays any attention to my posts that are > designed to break all the rules? **** ODE TO SUSAM MCGEE Oh, Ms McGee we are not fools; We're well aware you break the rules. It seems you break the mould as well, And plan on making merry hell. A mistress of the wild retort, Your views are strong, your temper short But, sometimes, when you don't complain, The things you say are really sane. So, if you want to be a rebel; Be assured, you'll be in trouble. But, stay within the written guide, And you'll be on our better side. We moderators tolerate, And try not to officiate, But `though of you I'm very fond My hand is resting on my wand! Neil Mechanimagus Moderator From monika at darwin.inka.de Tue Jan 30 11:47:09 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (monika at darwin.inka.de) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:47:09 -0000 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius In-Reply-To: <01c08a11$5613f700$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <9569jt+soce@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11197 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: > As I said, it's just my imagination. Plus perhaps my belief that *I* > wouldn't go after somebody in the state of clinical shock. Ok, let's be more precise: Acute Stress Disorder, following shock and trauma. This would have put him in the state to go after Pettigrew and try to kill him because he certainly felt the urge to do exactly this (here I totally agree with you), but he was unable to concentrate and had no chance against him. > Well, not anyone, I don't think I could ;-) But you agreed that >Peter "maybe wasn't helpless" and that's was all I was arguing >about... I think Peter must have some skills as a wizard, although I don't think he is as talented as Sirius or Remus. > After a second thought I must admit that > *shock* theory better explains Sirius's laughter than *rage* one, > but my imagination never listens to reason. Hmm, than why do we discuss at all? I think Sirius' laughter was hysterical, a complete stress breakdown. I can't see any sarcasm here. It just doesn't make sense to me. > My version is that James has done for Remus and Sirius participated > for the fun of the thing. Although I think that James was more mature than Sirius when they were in school, I believe you underestimate Sirius here. I am convinced he would do anything for someone he loves, and he may have had few friends (I don't know it), but Remus was certainly one of them. At least that's my POV. > But why, after 20 years (including 12 years in Azkaban) Sirius > still says that "it served him right"? I don't think that his mental state during PoA would have allowed him to say anything else. It wasn't the right moment to try and think about that old grudge again. He will have to resolve his problems with Snape later, almost certainly in the next book when they will have to work together against Voldemort. But during the timeframe of PoA Sirius wasn't himself as I have tried to explain in another post. He has gone through hell, and that has left its traces, Azkaban isn't a place you leave in the same state of mind you have entered it, and this applies for everyone (including Sirius). Monika who still feels the need to defend Sirius... From john at walton.to Tue Jan 30 11:50:04 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:50:04 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Further note on our 'old' Yahoo club (responding to Amanda) In-Reply-To: <955dgb+ip33@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11198 coriolan at worldnet.att.net wrote: > Would anyone be open to reconstituting HP4GU as a plain old Usenet > newsgroup? The disadvantage is that we'd be left open to all variety > of spammers. The advantage would be that we wouldn't have to go > through all this major hassle whenever Yahoo decides to have a > paradigm shift. Ack, no! One of the main reasons we're staying with YahooGroups is the file sharing/storage options, as well as the archive ability. We would also be unable to ban or otherwise discipline miscreants, delete spam/pornographic posts, or close the membership of the group for a while if the posting rate skyrocketed for some reason (i.e. we were mentioned on national news). In my experience of Usenet, the downside of spam and the impossibility of moderation quite outweigh the day or so of learning we have had to go through with the eGroups/YahooGroups shift. ::puts down the Moderator Rock:: Speaking hypothetically, as myself, at some point, when we get our own website up and running (and stable...very stable), we might consider moving to a majordomo list...but that's in the FAR future, and is only a hypothetical case anyway. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Tue Jan 30 12:14:06 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:14:06 -0000 Subject: Character Summary: Neville Longbottom In-Reply-To: <954vr0+sdeb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <956b6e+k2j8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11199 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., lj2d30 at g... wrote: > I would love to see the > worm turn and have Neville stand up to Snape, but I know this would > only happen if Neville's confidence were stronger. This struck a chord with me when I read it. I think this could be ripe for happening in book 5. I can just imagine it. Dai From john at walton.to Tue Jan 30 12:28:16 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:28:16 +0000 Subject: CROSS-POST: FFN Chaptering Guide Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11200 Cross-post between: HPforGrownups, ParadigmOfUncertainty, FFN-Slashers-Unite and HP_FanFiction. In case anybody doesn't know, Fanfiction.net, home of just about all fanfic talked about on these lists, has implemented a new organisational method for chaptered stories. The FFN Staff have written a handy guide to chaptering, which can be found at: http://www.fanfiction.net/chaptering_guide.html It's brilliant! However, it doesn't deal with what to do with prologues/epilogues, what to do if you mis-import a chapter or any way to go from, say, chapter 1/10 to 5/10 without scrolling through. Maybe they could make a menu-bar out of it. ::looks hopefully at FFN staff who reside on various lists:: I actually *like* this change. It means that the 13000 out of 14000 HP fics which are pure fluff will have to reorganise themselves to a far smaller number. Hooray! ****************************************** John Walton Crazy Ivan john at walton.to Author of "Harry Potter and the Song of Time" @ fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic/?action=story-read&storyid=111044 (or search under "Crazy Ivan) ****************************************** From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Tue Jan 30 12:46:58 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:46:58 +0100 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius Message-ID: <01c08aba$bbb62340$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11201 >Ok, let's be more precise: Acute Stress Disorder, following shock and >trauma. This would have put him in the state to go after Pettigrew >and try to kill him because he certainly felt the urge to do exactly >this (here I totally agree with you), but he was unable to >concentrate and had no chance against him. Mmmm... I don't have my copy of GoF about me, so just correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Hagrid never mentioned that Sirius was in particular stress when they met at the ruins of Potters' house. I have formed an impression that this was the reason Hagrid believed that Sirius betrayed Potters. And perhaps we'll just agree to disagree? I can *understand* Sirius, but I don't *like* him, and with Severus it's completely the other way round - I like the guy even though I don't always understand him. Am I right to say that your opinions are exactly 180 degrees different? >Monika >who still feels the need to defend Sirius... Monika Z. (the Snape fan) From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Tue Jan 30 12:47:54 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:47:54 -0500 Subject: Sirius's reaction at the Potters References: <01c08aba$bbb62340$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <3A76B7F9.BD0428D@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 11202 Monika Zaboklicka wrote: > >Ok, let's be more precise: Acute Stress Disorder, following shock and > >trauma. This would have put him in the state to go after Pettigrew > >and try to kill him because he certainly felt the urge to do exactly > >this (here I totally agree with you), but he was unable to > >concentrate and had no chance against him. > > > > Mmmm... I don't have my copy of GoF about me, so just correct me if I'm > wrong, but I think that Hagrid never mentioned that Sirius was in particular > stress when they met at the ruins of Potters' house. I have formed an > impression that this was the reason Hagrid believed that Sirius betrayed > Potters. It's not in GoF, it's in PoA - Hagrid specificaly says that Sirius needed comforting when he showed up at the POtter's - here's the passage: > "I met him!" growled Hagrid. "I musta bin the last ter see him before he > killed all them people! It was me what rescued Harry from Lily an' > James's house after they was killed! jus' got him outta the ruins, poor > little thing, with a great slash across his forehead, an' his parents > dead... an' Sirius Black turns up, on that flyin' motorbike he used ter > ride. Never occurred ter me what he was doin' there. I didn' know he'd > bin Lily an' James's Secret-Keeper. Thought he'd jus' heard the news o' > You-Know-Who's attack an' come ter see what he could do. White an' > shakin', he was. An' yeh know what I did? I COMFORTED THE MURDERIN' > TRAITOR!" Hagrid roared. > If Sirius needed "comforting" then he was distraught. If he was distraught then he was openly manifesting a show of stress. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 12:53:35 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:53:35 -0000 Subject: What's the worst Harry will face? In-Reply-To: <9563e3+mabh@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <956dgf+g5hs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11203 Naama:" (JRRT wrote)"It was at this point that Bilbo stopped. Going on from there was the bravest thing he ever did. The tremendous things that happened afterwards were as nothing compared to it." "Somewhere in the structure of the heroic tale is that there is *one* crisis. In HP I believe it is the graveyard scene." There is a breakthrough experience for those who are going to face danger. In the American Civil War, there was an expression for it: you'd "seen the elephant." But that doesn't necessarily translate into that experience being "the worst" that's going to happen. Harry may well not see anything so grotesque as the graveyard scene again. But if he has to watch Dumbledore die, or one of the Trio die, or watch Hogwarts being decimated, I'm pretty sure how he'd answer the question "What's the worst thing that's happened in this war?" From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Tue Jan 30 13:13:49 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:13:49 +0100 Subject: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Sirius's reaction at the Potters Message-ID: <01c08abe$7bba4c40$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11204 >> Mmmm... I don't have my copy of GoF about me, so just correct me if I'm >> wrong, but I think that Hagrid never mentioned that Sirius was in particular >> stress when they met at the ruins of Potters' house. I have formed an >> impression that this was the reason Hagrid believed that Sirius betrayed >> Potters. > >It's not in GoF, it's in PoA Oh dear, what a stupid mistake. I'm properly ashamed of myself. I guess I miss my copy of GoF too much. - Hagrid specificaly says that Sirius needed comforting when he showed up at the POtter's - here's the passage: All right, now I remember. And I'm convinced. Monika Z. (The Snape fan) From vderark at bccs.org Tue Jan 30 13:45:52 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:45:52 -0000 Subject: Weasleys being poor Message-ID: <956gig+urfe@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11205 Hey, troops, just had a great comment set to me via Lexicon feedback. I don't think I've read this idea before, although I don't read all the messages on here. So I'll toss it in the ring here. It makes sense to me, although I haven't sat back and looked for the flaws or contrary examples yet. Here's what Jonathan said about tha fact that the Weasleys can't conjure themselves the things they don't have: "On another point about why the weasleys don't use magic to make new clothes, we don't know how long an item magicked up by a wand lasts; remember Cinderella: the magic items changed back at midnight; remember the gold at the quidditch match. Ron would look a bit silly if his clothes vanished on him, items made from thin air may only last a few hours. Wormtail's new hand would last because it was fused to his body but most items will evaporate." So how about it? Are there examples of magicked items (not enchanted or magicCAL items, but MAGICKED items, normal items which are conjured up for non-magical use)which DID last indefinitely? Would an item last longer depending on how much magical power you used on it? And then would riches or poverty in some way be tied to how much magical "energy" you had to inbue into something, and for most if not all wizards they don't care to spend too much of their own megical energy on something unless it's for a VERY good cause (like the Philosopher's Stone)? So riches and wealth in the Malfoy sense would be the same kind of riches and wealth as in our Muggle sense, since magicked wealth would cost too much in personal magical energy to be worth having for anyone at all? Will I ever stop talking in questions? Do I even know what I'm saying anymore? Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon wherein resides the wisdom of the ages or not http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From msl at fc.net Tue Jan 30 14:34:20 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:34:20 -0000 Subject: Arabella Figg In-Reply-To: <20010130010052.24377.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <956jdc+ms5p@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11206 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., A B wrote: > I read in the HP Lexicon website about how Arabella > Figg might be responsible for watching over Harry > while he's at the Dursley's, and there was evidence > given for her being a witch, rather than a Muggle. > Something else I noticed about her is her association > with cabbage: we're told her house smells of cabbage > whenever Harry stays there. Cabbage seems to be > associated with the magic world. The Polyjuice Potion > tastes of over-cooked cabbage, and IIRC, Snape's > dungeon smells like cabbage, too. Is this more > evidence that Mrs. Figg is no ordinary Muggle. Forgive > me if this has been brought up before. I did search > the archive and didn't see this mentioned. I think you're on the right track. I finished rereading PS/SS last night and noticed that when Harry buys his potions kit in Diagon Alley, the potions supply shop also smells like "overcooked cabbage" (I think that's the phrase)...just like Figg's house. marvin From msl at fc.net Tue Jan 30 14:53:07 2001 From: msl at fc.net (msl at fc.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:53:07 -0000 Subject: The Death of Cedric In-Reply-To: <955dnq+hgi3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <956kgj+jti2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11207 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., harry_potter00 at y... wrote: > It's just that Cedric's death didn't really do > that. He was alive and then he was dead. I have to agree that it's > unsettling the way AK works, but doesn't make for a good literary > death scene. In this case I think that "unliterariness" was part of the point. Cedric's death reminded me of one of those scenes in gangster movies where the bad guy reaches out with his .45 and blows some poor slob's head off just for the hell of it. The closest literary parallel that jumps to my mind is in Richard III, when Richard orders the children in the Tower of London killed; it's not something he needs to do, necessarily, it's just convenient. For Voldemort & Pettigrew, killing Cedric was just more convenient, and they're sufficiently accustomed to killing people that they do it without fanfare. "Who's this mf?" Bang! > Another question I had is whether Cedric's death is extraneous to > the plot, or will later become central? Did he HAVE to die? Not > exactly, at least IMO. I mean his death shows the reality of evil, > and that Voldemort doesn't care who he kills. It also, as Peg once > eloquently pointed out, took Harry's noblest decision and made it > the greatest tragedy (in the canon so far, or will someone go > against this?). It shows how one's best intentions can go awry, definitely. It may also provide fodder in the future for people who want to discredit Harry in some way. "Harry blames Cedric's death on V, but I think he's involved himself; look at how ambitious he is, sneaking his way into the tournament; he should have been in Slytherin, not Gryffindor...." > Cedric is also (argubly-sp?) the first person to be killed in the > Second Voldemort War (SVW or VWII as we've dubbed it). He's not a > martyr (as he didn't even know what was happening) but perhaps his > death will serve as an inspiration for others to fight in the future. I tend to count from Quirrel. If one does that, then we've got Quirrell, Frank the gardener, Bertha Jorkins, Crouch Sr. (and Jr.), and Cedric as known victims of V's second rise. Although in the case of Quirrell and Crouch Jr., we might question their victimhood since they were on V's side. > > Would anyone like to point out why the death of Cedric was or was > not needed to forward the plot? > I don't know that it was "necessary" strictly speaking; V could have menaced Harry without Cedric's presence, I'm sure. On the other hand, I think it's a very effective way of illustrating Harry's predicament for future books...namely, anybody Harry does a good turn, anybody who gets close to Harry, is in mortal danger. I don't see how this could fail to take a heavy toll on his friendships. marvin From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 14:58:46 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:58:46 -0000 Subject: Wizard Wealth (was Weasleys being poor) In-Reply-To: <956gig+urfe@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <956kr6+2edv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11208 This subject area is one of the most interesting: what are the limits of magic? Obviously it isn't omnipotent, or everything would be on its head. Wealth: Wealth -- gold, for a wizard -- has to be the same as we understand it. If any competent wizard could conjure it, gold wouldn't be all that valuable anymore. The same goes for things like clothes or material items: if they were that easy to get, what use would money be? We aren't sure about items we've seen magicked up. When Dumbledore whips up a chair for Sybil Trelawney or a tray of tea and biscuits in Hagrid's hut, he might have created them out of thin air (as a most powerful wizard) or he might have summoned them from the kitchens or storage rooms or whatever. Certainly talent, experience, and skill means some wizards can do what other's can't. Steve:"Ron would look a bit silly if his clothes vanished on him, items made from thin air may only last a few hours." It all depends on what kind of parties you get invited to. From nykteris at polbox.com Tue Jan 30 15:44:46 2001 From: nykteris at polbox.com (nykteris) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:44:46 +0100 Subject: Sirius' family Message-ID: <003a01c08ad3$b33fa880$d2604cd5@default> No: HPFGUIDX 11209 IMO Black wasn't filled with anger after the Potters' death. He was rather desperate (kindly remember GoF, The Parting of the Ways). Can you imagine? - your best friends dead because another friend betrayed them, you feel guilty etc. etc. The Potters must have been for Black nearly a family. And that's my question: do we know anything about SB's family? There is some information on Peter's mother, Remus' parents but that's all as I think. Katarzyna PS Severus is such a beautiful name. I wonder why it hasn't been very popular so far. I hope it changes soon? ;-))) * * * PPS Chyba tylko my dwie, sadzac po adresach, choc to dosc kiepskie kryterium... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 16:19:30 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:19:30 -0000 Subject: The Death of Cedric In-Reply-To: <956kgj+jti2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <956pii+ugav@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11210 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., msl at f... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., harry_potter00 at y... wrote: > > In this case I think that "unliterariness" was part of the point. > Cedric's death reminded me of one of those scenes in gangster movies > where the bad guy reaches out with his .45 and blows some poor slob's > head off just for the hell of it. The closest literary parallel that > jumps to my mind is in Richard III, when Richard orders the children > in the Tower of London killed; it's not something he needs to do, > necessarily, it's just convenient. > Ummm. To be a little less highbrow, in some ways it reminded me of the "redshirt" phenomenon. You know how on Star Trek, when they beam down onto the planet, they bring along some random redshirted extra. Well, this guy gets eaten by the monster of the day/shot by the Klingons/killed in some horrible manner by the Cardassians, etc. The point is, it's this person we've never seen before, whose main purpose is his death. It gets so that you can predict it. In this case, Cedric had other functions in the plot besides his death, but his death didn't have the same impact because he wasn't as important in the series as other characters. Plus we were waiting for someone more important to Harry to die, which may have affected our reaction. Cedric was someone whom Harry liked and respected, but they didn't hang out together much; I don't think he knew Cedric as well as he probably did some of the less well characterized Griffindors in his class. > > I tend to count from Quirrel. If one does that, then we've got > Quirrell, Frank the gardener, Bertha Jorkins, Crouch Sr. (and Jr.), > and Cedric as known victims of V's second rise. Although in the case > of Quirrell and Crouch Jr., we might question their victimhood since > they were on V's side. Yes. Even if you don't count Voldy's hapless henchmen, Frank and Bertha were undisputably innocent victims, and Crouch Sr. certainly didn't deserve his fate. So I think part of the impact of Cedric's death is that he knew Harry personally, was innocent, died onscreen and in Harry's sight, and also was a young man with the rest of his life ahead of him, which makes his death especially horrible, as in the scenes with his parents. Even though he didn't die as horribly as Bertha probably did, this still gives his death more impact. I agree with what Marvin has said about this causing anxiety in Harry. Not to bring in another clinical debate, but Harry may develop something like survivor's guilt, especially if more people close to him are injured. Goodness, PTSD, trauma....this series is getting dark. Charmian From cad2 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 16:21:43 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:21:43 -0000 Subject: The Death of Cedric In-Reply-To: <956kgj+jti2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <956pmn+o6vk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11211 To me, Cecdric was the first one who was killed "just because." The people you mention below all had a purpose (even Frank the gardener whose death appears random - but who I believe we will learn more about in upcoming books. I do not beleive it was coincidence - there is something about he house and the story of the house that just leaves something unsettled in my mind.) - they all outlived thier usefullness, one could say. Cindy > > I tend to count from Quirrel. If one does that, then we've got > Quirrell, Frank the gardener, Bertha Jorkins, Crouch Sr. (and Jr.), > and Cedric as known victims of V's second rise. Although in the case > of Quirrell and Crouch Jr., we might question their victimhood since > they were on V's side. From landers at email.unc.edu Tue Jan 30 16:15:10 2001 From: landers at email.unc.edu (Betty Landers) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:15:10 -0500 Subject: odp? Message-ID: <3A76E88C.B32F4E16@email.unc.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 11212 I've been seeing that abbreviation a lot lately and don't know what it means. Sorry for the one-line post. From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Jan 30 16:30:47 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:30:47 -0700 Subject: Mundungus Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11213 I got this "Forgotten English" Page-A-Day calendar for Christmas, and today the word "mundungus" appears -- the definition being "cheap, smelly tobacco." So there's good old Mundungus Fletcher (who tried to put a hex on Arthur Weasley in CoS; and put in an extravagant tent damage claim in GoF. Is there any other meaning of "mundungus" that anyone knows? Here's the official source, in case anyone wants to add it to their citations: -------------------------------------- Forgotten English Pub. by Pomegranate Communications Inc. copyright 2000 by Jeffrey Kacirk ISBN 0-7649-1140-6 www.pomegranate.com --------------------------------------- SML From cad2 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 16:28:11 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:28:11 -0000 Subject: Re-Reading Message-ID: <956q2r+hhsm@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11214 How many people on this board have read each book more than once? I find that the discussions here are quite detailed and I did not pick up on a lot of the info after the first read-through.(finished teh series only last weekend). Looks like I'm back to the SS :-) By the way, I love this board. I really enjoy the detailed character and plot discussions. Most of the other boards I've found are modeled for a... ahem... younger crowd. A big thank you to the creator of this board!!!!!! Cindy From monika at darwin.inka.de Tue Jan 30 17:03:12 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:03:12 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/Sirius parallels In-Reply-To: <3A763344.20FCC307@swbell.net> References: <950alk+6j1b@eGroups.com> <3A763344.20FCC307@swbell.net> Message-ID: <21rd7to4ptruolk417r9eqi2i6kfcvi1l7@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11215 On Mon, 29 Jan 2001 21:21:40 -0600, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >Someone posted a nice analysis of how PTSD could have been the driving force behind Sirius' persona in PoA (Monika maybe?). Yes, that was me... > Anyway .... I'm not so sure that Sirius really does have >a hair-trigger temper. He's portrayed that way in fanfic land quite often (including mine & Carole's ASA), but I think he is considerably different in GoF than in PoA. To be sure, >he's still very protective of Harry and impulsive (flying north at the first hint of trouble), but you don't really see the same violent, temper-flaring actions from Sirius in GoF. >He's much more the stable, wise, self-sacrificing, protective godfather. Yes, he is. And the difference in his behavior between PoA and GoF doesn't make any sense at all if he really had a hair-trigger temper, or more precisely if it really was a personality trait. It's more likely a clinical condition. I don't think coming back to England when Harry told him he was in trouble was impulsive. He couldn't react differently, even though he knew that Harry was under Dumbledore's protection. He definitely has a sense of responsibility, and I think he knew very well that he risked his life, but I wouldn't call his decision impulsive or rash. If he had stayed in his tropical paradise (or wherever he was at that time) we would perhaps have called him thoughtless. >Yes, but the same parallel can be made between Hermione and Sirius. I'm one of the few who paralleled Hermione to Sirius back when we were trying to compare the Trio to the >Marauders. Most people paired her up with Lupin because of intellect, although I maintain that since McGonagall said James & Sirius were the brightest students of their year, Lupin >must be slightly less intellectual (if relying on grades alone anyway). So .... I think Hermione & Sirius are more alike -- bright, fiercely loyal & steadfast, etc. Interesting. I have discussed this topic a while ago with a friend off list, and we have come to the same conclusion. We found way more parallels between Sirius and Hermione than between Sirius and Ron. I would add to your list that they both have a lot of common sense. I remember that they both said the same thing when Harry began to worry about Voldemort in GoF: first we will have to get you through the Triwizard Tournament, and then we can worry about Voldemort. They looked at the problem in the same analytical way. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html Current book: William H. Calvin: The Ascent of Mind From kathleen at carr.org Tue Jan 30 17:08:49 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:08:49 -0500 Subject: Shipping through the cracks Message-ID: <200101301712.f0UHCbC18450@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 11216 Ahoy there, mateys! Scott wrote: > I guess that when it comes down to it I >just don't like or relate to Ron. (I know that is no excuse) To a >certain extent I also think that the character most like me is >Hermione and so I want to set her up with the hero. See, crew? They even admit it! ;) I wrote: <> And Rina responded: >Well, now, don't say that yet. LOL I really don't think it's what >you'd expect. Oh, no, I do want to read it! Half of my favorite fanfics have been the exact opposite of what I'd expect (And despite my rather strong R/H position-to put it mildly-half the authors on my favorites page are H/H. So I'll read anything.) I wrote: <> And Rina responded: >Really? Like what? I see evidence for both, but I can see evidence for >just about anyone. Well, I hadn't really said much more about it because I didn't want to get into slashy arguments (not that they aren't valid or useful, I just personally don't find them as interesting). I guess my main basis for this feeling is that I think I see Harry being more reciprocally involved in an Ra/H pairing than an H/H one. (And yes, the 2nd Task is probably a big part of that.) I still don't see much evidence that Harry would develop feelings for Hermione. I know those on the SS H/H have their points, and some of them I can see, believe it or not , but overall I just don't buy it. Sorry. Rina wrote: >Hee hee! Don't worry, I make the best martinis this side of the >Mississippi. Some of them might be so enamored with my bartending >skills that they'll follow me back to the Good Ship R/H. ; ) Somehow I think you're going to make a great ambassador! Rina wrote: >But maybe we all look at what we prefer in a relationship, and apply >it to these characters? I think I do, sounds like Kathy might, and I >believe Penny talked earlier about not seeing anything affectionate in >the constant bickering. Any thoughts? I know it's a generalization, >but I'm just curious if it's on target. Well, you've pegged me right. That's why I find H/H (and the thought of Harry as a boyfriend-did I mention how much identify with Hermione?) rather boring. Marvin: > For that matter, I don't think it quite qualifies as >shipping unless you've decided that you *want* to see two(or more) >characters together. To merely read the words JKR wrote and >say, "Aha! I see evidence that Ron likes Hermione!" isn't quite >shipping. That's just reading. OTOH, to say, "Aha! See this >evidence that Hermione reciprocates Ron's affection? In your face, >SS H/H!!" *is* shipping. :-) I think this is on target (btw, I love that last line!). I think true shipping involves a certain manic passion. marvin again: >How about this analogy; I see the noshipper fan as a kind of literary >sports analyst, watching the game and trying to understand the play >and possibily even predict/infer the outcome without actually rooting >for a particular team/outcome. It's like watching a game between >teams neither of whom is *your* team, so you don't have to be fully >invested in the outcome and instead you just cheer whenever you see a >good play. Well, if that works for you.maybe I'm just too far gone, but I can't understand being that detached about it. (OK,so, yes, I am too far gone.don't rub it in.) ;) Star wrote (of DrMM's parallel theory): >really? I don't see that at all. I at least don't see any parallels >between Hermione and Mrs. Weasley, yes Mrs. Weasley had a bit of a >temper and likes to follow the rules like our dear Hermy but I still >see Hermione and Molly dear as being alot different. Actually I see a lot of parallels, and I am looking forward to reading DrMM's take on things. Mostly I see the relationships as similar, the way the two females keep the two males "grounded" so to speak. It strikes me that Ron has a nice healthy fear of Hermione at times (in PoA, he says something sarcastic while she's studying for finals, but "very quietly"). Maybe it's a fear of upsetting her, I don't know, but I see Arthur reacting to Molly in the same way. I don't know-I'll wait and see what DrMM has to say before I blather on any more. Mo wrote: >As for the >Crookshanks/Scabbers incident - IMO Hermione was acting insensitive and >spoiled. Crookshanks was trying to attack and possibly eat Scabbers. She >continued to poo-poo Ron's concerns saying "that's what cats and rats do." >That really irked me. So what if Ron is mad for a while? Shouldn't he have >some time to mourn? His pet is missing and presumed eaten, and I >personally believe he had the right to be angry. I actually agreed with a lot more from this message, but I had to snip something or this post would be even longer! Anyway, I think this is a good point that hasn't been made often enough. Hermione isn't perfect, as we well know, but she could at least show a little sympathy. Even Harry thinks Ron was right that Crookshanks ate Scabbers. Ron gets a lot of flack for being so stubborn, but let's not forget how stubborn Hermione can be too. As for the Goblet of Fire argument, well, anyone who's read my story can tell you what my interpretation of that is. Suffice it to say, I think Harry was equally at fault. Penny wrote: >So .... I think Hermione & Sirius are more alike -- bright, fiercely >loyal & steadfast, etc. In the interest of space, I have snipped a lot of this, but I think you have some good points about Hermione's loyalty. She is very good at keeping secrets, as we have seen. While I do think that loyalty is a strong trait for her, I am not sure if I would describe her as "fiercely" loyal, the way I would describe Ron. I don't know.maybe it's just a matter of personality. Penny wrote: >I'm playing fair! Honest! Actually, I think I took "denigrate" to mean >"criticize." Having just looked it up, it means more to "defame." So, >okay, just to clarify ... I can visit the Good Ship R/H without fear of >being forced to walk to the plank if I criticize Ron (or another >Weasley) as long as I don't cross the line into defamation? I think I >might want a clear standard of defamation before boarding the Good Ship >R/H in any case. OK, here's what's posted by our gangplank: Welcome Aboard the Good Ship R/H! While aboard our ship, please note the following rules and regulations: 1) No defamation of Weasleys will be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to, implications that Ron is less than Harry, suggestions that Ron will turn evil and betray his friends, and the like. The penalty for this will be walking the plank, to be administered immediately to violators by First Mate Mo (who can be very surly, so watch out!) 2) H/H-ers are welcome to visit for brief periods, but they minute they try to convert crew members, they will be keelhauled. Be warned, if an H/H-er stays for an extended time, he or she may be led away to our clinic by Counselor Kelley for gentle deprogramming. 3) The suggestion that Hermione should be with Draco is cause for immediate loading into one of our canons (yes, canons) and being launched over to the SS Leather Trousers. 4) The SS H/G travels alongside the Good Ship R/H for protective purposes. Any visitor who is unable to be nice to the H/G is advised to remain on the port side of the ship away from temptation to taunt. Anyone taunting the crew of the H/G will find themselves burping slugs for several hours. 5) Watch out for the Canary Creams. Actually, maybe we should just post the "Daily Affirmations" from the SugarQuill...they seem to say it all! Penny wrote (about Harry's gratitude to Hermione): >Well, he might not have "thought" it out loud for the reader. But, >he >did say to Hermione, "Hermione, I need your help! I need to learn >how >to do summoning charms properly." In other words, he knows she'll >help >him -- he knows he can count on her. Yes, it'd be nice if he told >her >so, but I figure his actions (reliance on her when the going gets >tough) >speaks for him in alot of ways. To me, that's not gratitude, that's taking for granted that she'll help him. Of course she will, but if I were Hermione I would resent the hell out of the fact that he never says thank you. And he doesn't even seem to notice that Hermione is treating him a lot better than Harry had treated her when she and Ron were fighting. I know what you're going to say: Harry did try to patch things up. Yeah, once or twice, in how many months of not speaking to her? Hermione was very clearly going back and forth trying to get Ron and Harry to speak to each other the whole time. (And, as much as it's been argued here, I still don't think she "chose sides" during that fight by spending time with Harry, as it seems to me she spent time with Ron too, but that's another argument). I wrote: >Does anyone think that H/V is really going to happen, or was it >just a > device to get Ron's feelings to the surface? And Penny replied: >You really think Hermione agreed to go to the Yule Ball with Viktor >to >try & get Ron to notice her? Her actions >at the >Ball speak differently. IMO, she genuinely was pleased that >someone had >noticed her as a girl, and I don't think she's the type person who >would >go in for that sort of ploy. Actually, Penny, I was referring to the whole Viktor thing as a "ploy to get Ron's feelings to the surface" from JKR's point of view, not Hermione's. For the record, I absolutely don't believe that Hermione would do something that petty. I think it entirely possible that she assumed/maybe hoped that Ron would ask her, and was really irritated when he made the pair of trolls remark, and that may even have pushed her decision to go with Viktor. (This is the situation in my fanfic anyway). But I don't think, as some of the reviews I have gotten seem to indicate, that she would go with Viktor out of "revenge". I think she was flattered by Viktor's invitation, and maybe a little disturbed (I would be, if a famous someone who was several years older than me asked me to a ball and appeared to be so serious about me). In fact, I do think Hermione has feelings for Ron (did you know that?) but maybe that she didn't admit them to herself, or even realize them until the whole hoopla around the ball brought it out. And she is sure as hell not going to admit it to him while he's being such an idiot. Another place where I think Hermione's stubbornness, as well as Ron's, comes into play. Anyway, more to the point, I was wondering if people think Viktor was a literary device to bring out the tension between Ron and Hermione, or if he will be important in later books. I'm still not sure whether I think that Hermione will visit Viktor over the summer. I think if she did, it would be as a friend, because I don't see her having a real interest in him romantically. I think she likes him, and is interested in knowing him better, but not necessarily romantically. (But, Ron doesn't know that, so it could still be fodder for jealousy of course.) I said: > I, for one, am not "disquieted" by the idea of H/H; in fact, I think > it's rather dull and too HGTG . I never > understood why H/H-ers think R/H is "the easy way out" or some >such. And Penny replied: >Okay, I'll bite. What's HGTG? :--) Hero Gets The Girl. Need I say more? Penny wrote: >R/H -- not definitely Volatile. Might well disintegrate into >Dysfunction (just like Calm marriages could fall into Dysfunction >for >different reasons). :--) I could see R/H falling into Dysfunctional,just like any match could. But I could see H/H doing the same thing, and faster. Ron and Hermione don't fight ALL the time, you know. They are nice to each other a good portion of the time. Just because they occasionally snipe at each other badly enough to send Harry running to the Owlery doesn't mean they don't get along. Think about all the times Harry comes back from Quidditch practice and there they are studying or whatever and NOT fighting. Besides, about the Harry-running-to-the-Owlery thing.well, just because Harry is uncomfortable with it, that doesn't mean that Ron and Hermione are. They are both very passionate people, and sometimes that means raising your voice. Most of the "Calm" relationships I have seen personally seem to be that way mostly because one or both of the partners aren't standing up for what they really want. (Before you start the flame-throwers, I hasten to add that this is merely my experience and I am fully aware that not all "Calm" relationships are this way. I am merely try to explain why I prefer the "Volatile".) Well that's another way-too-long message from me...I'm headed down to the bar for one of Rina's margaritas. Captain Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 18:17:22 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:17:22 -0000 Subject: Vernon sighting Message-ID: <9570fi+j4ji@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11217 My dad had the Super Bowl on when I visited him Sunday, and right there on the half-time discussion was *Vernon Dursley* in the person of Mike Ditka (former football coach). Dye his hair & mustache black and lengthen his hair a little, and you've got my Vernon. >From what I've heard, the personality matches too . . . Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ron peered into Harry's teacup, his forehead wrinkled with effort. "There's a blob a bit like a bowler hat," he said. "Maybe you're going to work for the Ministry of Magic. . . ." -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From old_wych at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 18:39:23 2001 From: old_wych at yahoo.com (A B) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:39:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Wizard Wealth (was Weasleys being poor) Message-ID: <20010130183923.5330.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11218 --- Jim Ferer wrote: > > Wealth: Wealth -- gold, for a wizard -- has to be > the same as we > understand it. If any competent wizard could > conjure it, gold > wouldn't be all that valuable anymore. The same > goes for things like > clothes or material items: if they were that easy to > get, what use > would money be? > Isn't it interesting that wizards use actual gold, and not pieces of paper that used to represent gold, but nowadays represents a given "value"? How might this fit into the scheme of things? __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From old_wych at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 18:44:52 2001 From: old_wych at yahoo.com (A B) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:44:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re-Reading Message-ID: <20010130184452.5380.qmail@web5201.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11219 --- cad2 at hotmail.com wrote: > How many people on this board have read each book > more than once? > I'm on my third read-through. I originally bought PS for my daughter, but I read it first. Then I had to rush right out and get the other three volumes. And when I finished reading them the first time I started in again for the beginning. Now I'm reading a chapter a night (or sometimes more on the weekend) to my daughter and we're into CoS. Am I hooked? you bet! > By the way, I love this board. I really enjoy the > detailed character > and plot discussions. Most of the other boards I've > found are > modeled for a... ahem... younger crowd. > > A big thank you to the creator of this board!!!!!! > > Cindy ITA Cindy! I never imagined so many adults were into this. I think it's just great! Anne > __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From monika at darwin.inka.de Tue Jan 30 18:51:04 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:51:04 +0100 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius In-Reply-To: <01c08aba$bbb62340$0800a8c0@Serwer> References: <01c08aba$bbb62340$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11220 On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:46:58 +0100, "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: >Mmmm... I don't have my copy of GoF about me, so just correct me if I'm >wrong, but I think that Hagrid never mentioned that Sirius was in particular >stress when they met at the ruins of Potters' house. Look for it in PoA, not in GoF. He mentions it during the conversation Harry overhears in the Three Broomsticks. Hagrid is a simple mind, and yes, he mentioned that Sirius was in rather bad shape when he met him at the Potter's house. He said he was "white and shaking", and he also said that he tried to comfort him. And Sirius' laughter when he was arrested tells its own story, too. And even though you don't like him, don't forget that he was written as one of the good guys and that it can't be JKR's intention to make us believe that he is a violent jerk. >And perhaps we'll just agree to disagree? I can *understand* Sirius, but I >don't *like* him, and with Severus it's completely the other way round - I >like the guy even though I don't always understand him. Am I right to say >that your opinions are exactly 180 degrees different? Yes, I think you are right. I can't understand Snape and I certainly don't like him, maybe it's just impossible if Sirius is your favorite character. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html Current book: William H. Calvin: The Ascent of Mind From john at walton.to Tue Jan 30 19:00:54 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:00:54 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: odp? In-Reply-To: <3A76E88C.B32F4E16@email.unc.edu> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11221 Betty Landers wrote: > I've been seeing that abbreviation a lot lately and don't know what it > means. Sorry for the one-line post. My guess is, since it only appears on Monika Z's posts, and since she has a .pl ending (Poland) to her email, it's the Polish equivalent of "Re". Monika, is there any way you could set it to say "Re"? It's making the "sort by title" option a bit funny :) --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From joym999 at aol.com Tue Jan 30 19:32:57 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (joym999 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:32:57 -0000 Subject: Ode to Susan McGee (was re: Netiquette etc.) In-Reply-To: <956981+ckcr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9574t9+hmj9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11222 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Neil Ward" wrote: > Susan wrote: > > > SWINE! your days are numbered! > > > > How come no one pays any attention to my posts that are > > designed to break all the rules? > > **** > > ODE TO SUSAM MCGEE > > Oh, Ms McGee we are not fools; > We're well aware you break the rules. > It seems you break the mould as well, > And plan on making merry hell. > > A mistress of the wild retort, > Your views are strong, your temper short > But, sometimes, when you don't complain, > The things you say are really sane. > > So, if you want to be a rebel; > Be assured, you'll be in trouble. > But, stay within the written guide, > And you'll be on our better side. > > We moderators tolerate, > And try not to officiate, > But `though of you I'm very fond > My hand is resting on my wand! > > > Neil > Mechanimagus Moderator Am I the only one frightened by the fact that Neil has started writing poetry? --Joywitch From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Tue Jan 30 19:33:59 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:33:59 -0000 Subject: The Death of Cedric In-Reply-To: <955dnq+hgi3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9574v7+9cfl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11223 harry_potter00 wrote: > In re-reading the canon I found that I had several thoughts/questions > about the death of Cedric. I know that Jo has stated in past > interviews that it was very difficult for her to write Cedric's death > and that she cried. My question is did we as readers find Cedric's > death that emotional? I personally didn't. It is not that I've never > or don't find books emotionally moving, and it's certainly not that > I've never cried. It's just that Cedric's death didn't really do > that. He was alive and then he was dead. I have to agree that it's > unsettling the way AK works, but doesn't make for a good literary > death scene. > > Another question I had is whether Cedric's death is extraneous to the > plot, or will later become central? Did he HAVE to die? Not exactly, > at least IMO. I mean his death shows the reality of evil, and that > Voldemort doesn't care who he kills. It also, as Peg once eloquently > pointed out, took Harry's noblest decision and made it the greatest > tragedy (in the canon so far, or will someone go against this?). > > Cedric is also (argubly-sp?) the first person to be killed in the > Second Voldemort War (SVW or VWII as we've dubbed it). He's not a > martyr (as he didn't even know what was happening) but perhaps his > death will serve as an inspiration for others to fight in the future. > > In the long run Jo Rowling IS more invested in the characters than we > are, like it or not! (She is the one to breath life into them after > all.) That, when it boils down to it, is most likely why she was so > affected. Maybe I'm not invested in the characters enough to me moved > to tears by the death of Cedric. > > Would anyone like to point out why the death of Cedric was or was not > needed to forward the plot? > > Scott I think Cedric's death is integral to the plot in a couple of ways. He is the first in Harry's peer group to be killed. Adolescents think themselves to be indestructible: Harry displayed this sort of typical adolescent mentality in the previous books. Cedric's death sort of squashed that thought. IMO, Cedric's death is meant to sober up the students at Hogwarts to the cruelity of Voldemort. It also serves as a sort of "battle-cry" for the Hogwarts students. Granted some of them lost family during the Voldemort years, but of those who did not, Voldemort's prior activity isn't as personal to them. Take the recent earthquake in India. I do not have family nor friends there so my percepetion of the tragedy is less personal than those people who do have family and friends there and far less personal than those who have lost family and friends there. Sure, I can be empathetic, but it hasn't affected me personally so my empathy is limited. Hogwarts student have experienced a tragedy: one of their own was killed by Voldemort. It could possibly have been anyone of them if Voldemort was able to portkey into Hogwarts. :-) Milz From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Tue Jan 30 19:34:44 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:34:44 -0000 Subject: The Death of Cedric In-Reply-To: <956kgj+jti2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95750k+mj72@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11224 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., msl at f... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., harry_potter00 at y... wrote: > > Another question I had is whether Cedric's death is extraneous to > > the plot, or will later become central? Did he HAVE to die? Not > > exactly, at least IMO. I mean his death shows the reality of evil, > > and that Voldemort doesn't care who he kills. It also, as Peg once > > eloquently pointed out, took Harry's noblest decision and made it > > the greatest tragedy (in the canon so far, or will someone go > > against this?). > > It shows how one's best intentions can go awry, definitely. It may > also provide fodder in the future for people who want to discredit > Harry in some way. "Harry blames Cedric's death on V, but I think > he's involved himself; look at how ambitious he is, sneaking his way > into the tournament; he should have been in Slytherin, not > Gryffindor...." Cedrics death is not extraneous to the plot. It may not have many consequences as to how the plot continues to unfold, or if Harry is blamed in the future, or any other issues with regards to the good guys, but it does establish an important point about the characters of and relationship between V and wormtail. The killing is a totally callous act, not regarded as an event by Wormtail or V; Voldemort tells Wormtail to kill Cedric, Cedric dies. End of Story. Wormtail obeys his master with no thought to his victim or the crime he has been ordered to commit. Voldemort sees Cedric as a non-entity, a fly on the windows sill, and crushes him without a thought. This goes to show just how evil Voldemort and Wormtail are. The whole point of the event is to show the reader that although we have seen Cedrics character and have grown to know him (albeit distantly), this does not matter to Voldemort. He can just kill anyone with a command or an incantation. It's important in establishing this element of Vs character to show him just remove a person we know from the story without fanfare or speeches. This also highlights an important character flaw of Voldemorts. The reason he does not kill Harry in the graveyard is because he decides to play. If he had just murdered Harry while he was still tied to the gravestone, that would have been it, the end. The differences between the ways V deals with Cedric and Harry expose a big weakness in his plans. If he just murders outright with the element of surprise as he did with Cedric, then there would be no stopping him. But he doesn't, he enjoys toying with victims which mean something to him and this will lead to his downfall, as it led to the failure of his plans to despose of Harry in the graveyard. Dai From tenspeed at glade.net Tue Jan 30 22:15:24 2001 From: tenspeed at glade.net (MaggieDeaton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:15:24 -0800 Subject: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius References: <01c08aba$bbb62340$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <002101c08b0a$2793b7e0$fbb14c3f@b7k4m3> No: HPFGUIDX 11225 Well - I am new here and have enjoyed reading and learning from the posts but I have to jump in here... I confess to being bewildered by anyone saying they do NOT like Sirius! I really felt for the man as not only did he carry a tremendous guilt load for suggesting the use of Pettigrew to his friends but had been imprisoned for committing the crime himself and subject to the unspeakable horrors of that prison. Add to that, even now that he knows who is responsible, he is forced to keep hidden as he is still blamed and subject to reimprisonment... How can anyone fail to feel for the plight of this man who not only lost his best friends but was betrayed by another he felt was a friend and caused their death and his living death??? I, for one, admire his ability to not only survive that but come from the experience with his mind still intact and remarkably unembittered. JMHO>>> Paws Forever - Maggie in Texas PAWSFOREVER COCKER RESCUE & HAVEN - Seniors and Special needs Welcome! www.geocities.com/pawsforeverrescue ADOPT A POUND PUPPY AND SAVE A LIFE! ----- Original Message ----- From: Monika Huebner To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Sirius > On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:46:58 +0100, "Monika Zaboklicka" > wrote: > > >Mmmm... I don't have my copy of GoF about me, so just correct me if I'm > >wrong, but I think that Hagrid never mentioned that Sirius was in particular > >stress when they met at the ruins of Potters' house. > > Look for it in PoA, not in GoF. He mentions it during the conversation > Harry overhears in the Three Broomsticks. Hagrid is a simple mind, and > yes, he mentioned that Sirius was in rather bad shape when he met him > at the Potter's house. He said he was "white and shaking", and he also > said that he tried to comfort him. And Sirius' laughter when he was > arrested tells its own story, too. And even though you don't like him, > don't forget that he was written as one of the good guys and that it > can't be JKR's intention to make us believe that he is a violent jerk. > > >And perhaps we'll just agree to disagree? I can *understand* Sirius, but I > >don't *like* him, and with Severus it's completely the other way round - I > >like the guy even though I don't always understand him. Am I right to say > >that your opinions are exactly 180 degrees different? > > Yes, I think you are right. I can't understand Snape and I > certainly don't like him, maybe it's just impossible if Sirius is your > favorite character. > > Monika > > > -- > Check out our book and movie reviews: > http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html > > Current book: William H. Calvin: The Ascent of Mind > > > Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our > website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com > > From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 20:13:12 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:13:12 -0000 Subject: Cedric & the other wand problem In-Reply-To: <95750k+mj72@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95778o+eus7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11226 Dai:" Cedrics death is not extraneous to the plot. It may not have many consequences as to how the plot continues to unfold, or if Harry is blamed in the future, or any other issues with regards to the good guys, but it does establish an important point about the characters of and relationship between V and wormtail. The killing is a totally callous act, not regarded as an event by Wormtail or V; Voldemort tells Wormtail to kill Cedric, Cedric dies." Exactly: "Kill the spare!" That's all Cedric is, the spare. But, since Voldemort ordered Wormtail to do it, did Cedric's shadow come out of Voldemort's wand? Maybe Wormtail doesn't have one, having escaped as a rat, so he uses his master's. Surprised Voldemort trusts him with it; and how did Voldemort carry his away when he lost his body thirteen years ago? Dai:" This also highlights an important character flaw of Voldemorts. The reason he does not kill Harry in the graveyard is because he decides to play. If he had just murdered Harry while he was still tied to the gravestone, that would have been it, the end. The differences between the ways V deals with Cedric and Harry expose a big weakness in his plans. If he just murders outright with the element of surprise as he did with Cedric, then there would be no stopping him. But he doesn't, he enjoys toying with victims which mean something to him and this will lead to his downfall, as it led to the failure of his plans to dispose of Harry in the graveyard." If you looked in Roger Ebert's Movie Glossary, you'd find this under "Fallacy of the Talking Killer." But JKR made this otherwise cliche believable and consistent with Voldemort's character. He wanted a public triumph over Harry in front of his supporters. Tyrants seem to think that's necessary. From andrea at noembromation.com.br Tue Jan 30 20:32:45 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (Andrea H Bonfanti) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:32:45 -0200 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP Message-ID: <001001c08afc$2e36aa20$c4f5bfc8@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 11227 This week, Veja, the most prestigious Brazilian weekly magazine, interviews literary critic Harold Bloom. Here is what he says about HP (the translation is mine, so bear with me): "Veja: Are books like the Harry Potter series a good start, a way to sparkle children's interest in reading? Bloom: Do you really believe children will read better books after reading Harry Potter? I don't think so. And one of the worst writers in America, Stephen King (he's terrible, I can't even read a couple of paragraphs by him) has confirmed my worst fears in a review he wrote for The New York Times. According to him, the 12-year-olds who are now reading Potter will be ready to read his books at the age of 16. Do I need to say more? The USA are a country in which television, movies, video games, computers and Stephen King have ruined reading. Veja: Why should one not read J. K. Rowling's books? Bloom: I have only read one of her titles. The language is horrible. Nobody, for instance, "walks" in that book. The characters "stretch their legs", which is an obvious cliche. The whole book is full of these well-worn, second-hand phrases. I've written a negative review of Harry Potter for the Wall Street Journal. It was instant controversy. Over 400 letters were sent, calling me the worst names imaginable. Defense for such kind of bad books comes from everywhere - parents, children, media - and it is very unsettling and not at all healthy." His opinion really surprised me. Does any of you also think that the language is so poor in the HP books? Have critics been that harsh in general? Brazilian critics have been very positive towards the books, even with the half-assed translations we have here. Andrea [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From cad2 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 21:05:46 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:05:46 -0000 Subject: Cedric & the other wand problem In-Reply-To: <95778o+eus7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957aba+aa6n@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11228 >If you looked in Roger Ebert's Movie Glossary, you'd find this under >"Fallacy of the Talking Killer." But JKR made this otherwise cliche >believable and consistent with Voldemort's character. He wanted a >public triumph over Harry in front of his supporters. Tyrants seem >to think that's necessary Lets not forget that V did torture Harry before attempting to acctually kill him. Afterall, Harry is the reason he lost power all those years ago... could he dare let him get off with a simple and painless death? Cindy From cad2 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 21:19:09 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:19:09 -0000 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP In-Reply-To: <001001c08afc$2e36aa20$c4f5bfc8@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <957b4d+g45a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11229 Andrea wrote: > His opinion really surprised me. Does any of you also >think that the language is so poor in the HP books? Have critics >been that harsh in general? Brazilian critics have been very >positive towards the books, even with the half-assed translations we >have here. I'm not at all surprised by this review. The books are not literary prize type but that does not make them bad. Also, remember that some critics can't find anything good to say about anything... :-) They don't get paid for always agreeing with everyone! I did not read HP for its literary content, dynamic prose or deep character descriptions. I read them because they looked fun. I thought I'd enjoy them after some of the heavy reading I've done lately. Guess what? It was nice to sit down with an entertaining book and not have to pause after each passage to wonder what the author was trying to relay to me. (although sometimes I did pause for reflection... "why does everything in the magic world smell like cabbage?", etc) IMO, reading is reading, regardless the type of book being read. Some people read books for entertainment value only and some people read life-changing stories. Some prefer fiction while others prefer non-fiction. I wonder if the critic has read any of the Oprah books ... the last one I read was very much "entertainment" in my mind but I still enjoyed reading it! No, it didn't have an award sticker on the cover but I liked it none-the-less. The important thing to remember about reading is that while you are reading, you are not playing video games, putzing on the computer, yapping on the telephone, etc. JMHO, cindy Anyone who does not like HP is a fool! :-) These are great stories! From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 21:26:03 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:26:03 -0000 Subject: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <951pce+gfll@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957bhb+jv06@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11230 Marvin wrote: >Amen. But Dumbledore might have had still another reason...a basic >respect for rule of law and custom, even Muggle law. If the >Dursley's are Harry's next of kin, then it's likely they have >the "right" to raise Harry, even if they don't especially want to. >Perhaps Dumbledore feels that, however good his intentions, he just >doesn't have the right to unilaterally decide that Harry would be >better off someplace else. Well, according to Muggle law, at least American Muggles, Sirius would probably be his guardian; parents can name anyone they like guardian of their child and that's usually the godparent(s). Right, list lawyers? A relative could contest custody but the Dursleys wouldn't've done that. But of course this godfather has rather taken himself out of the running, or so Dumbledore thinks. Which just brings us back to the tangled question of what Dumbledore et alia knew, when, about Sirius during those first couple of days after James and Lily died. AD knows already that Sirius betrayed them--but then why doesn't he warn Hagrid that Sirius is dangerous?--and on the evidence of their actions in bk 1 ch 1, McGonagall knows too but Hagrid doesn't. . . ?? Is there a discussion of this somewhere? I couldn't find it in the archive. Amy Z ---------------------------------------------------------- If only the hat had mentioned a house for people who felt a bit queasy, that would have been the one for him. --HP and the Philosopher's Stone ---------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 21:28:29 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:28:29 -0000 Subject: Deaf/wizarding culture-H/G?-Ron on werewolves Message-ID: <957blt+ekd4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11231 Cap'n Kathy, really interesting observation on the parallels between Deaf and wizarding culture. I know less about Deaf culture than you do, but from the little I know this sounds spot on. >But as someone pointed out a while ago (I think it was Ebony), the >amount of time >that goes into worrying about getting/keeping friends at that age is >staggering. Nope, it wasn't Ebony, it was me. You can tell this is a theme I find particularly compelling. >It seems like most R/Hers I have talked to have either been >fervently H/G along with R/H, or don't really care one way or the other. Count me among the don't-really-see-H/G-happening-and-don't-cares. Kathy asked: > Does anyone think that H/V is really going to happen, or was it just a > device to get Ron's feelings to the surface? Penny responded: >You really think Hermione agreed to go to the Yule Ball with Viktor to >try & get Ron to notice her? No--I was thinking H/V was a device on Joanne's part, not Hermione's! Isn't that what you meant, Kathy? Hermione is not a schemer but Joanne definitely is . . . Amanda wrote: <> Steph wrote: <> ::hands in air:: Don't shoot! I started this damn thing and I really wasn't trying to say anything very critical about Ron, whom I love and admire and wish were my brother. I said from the start that his reaction was understandable. I just think it reveals an assumption about werewolves that's abroad in the wizarding world. Maybe it doesn't even do that . . . you are all very persuasive. Okay, I'll buy it, he was just scared! No subtext whatsoever! Now can I put my hands down? Amy Z whose 10-year happy marriage falls more into the Volatile than the Calm category...hmmm...born to R/H? From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 21:33:02 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:33:02 -0000 Subject: OT: Richard III In-Reply-To: <956kgj+jti2@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957bue+eine@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11232 Marvin wrote: > In this case I think that "unliterariness" was part of the point. > Cedric's death reminded me of one of those scenes in gangster movies > where the bad guy reaches out with his .45 and blows some poor slob's > head off just for the hell of it. The closest literary parallel that > jumps to my mind is in Richard III, when Richard orders the children > in the Tower of London killed; it's not something he needs to do, > necessarily, it's just convenient. Which is one of many reasons to conclude that Richard didn't order the deaths of the children. He had no reason whatsoever. Poor Richard got slandered but good by that play. (It's a good play anyway though.) ;-) Amy Z From klaatu at primenet.com Tue Jan 30 21:42:43 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:42:43 -0700 Subject: Is Draco Redeemable? (was Re: The Death of Cedric) In-Reply-To: <95750k+mj72@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11233 Is anyone else seriously bothered by the fact that Draco comes in to Harry's train compartment at the end of GoF and actually TAUNTS him about the death of Cedric? Draco says: "You've picked the losing side, Potter! I warned you! I told you you ought to choose your company more carefully, remember? When we met on the train, first day at Hogwarts? I told you not to hang around with riffraff like this!" He jerked his head at Ron and Hermione. "Too late now, Potter! They'll be the first to go, now the Dark Lord's back! Mudbloods and Muggle-lovers first! Well - second - Diggory was the f-" Is he a little psychopath, or what? He still doesn't understand the implications in Harry's escape -- Voldemort has failed to kill Harry for the 4th time (as a baby; as Quirrell; as Tom Riddle in CoS; and in GoF. WAS Cedric Diggory pureblood or mudblood? How about Barty Crouch, Junior and Senior? In a realistic world, I would not expect Draco to return to Hogwarts for the next year. His father has been identified by Harry as an unrepentant Death Eater. Would you send your child to the enemy's stronghold for education? Or maybe Lucius will USE Draco as a spy in Dumbledore's camp.... How's Draco going to feel about Voldemort if someone HE cares about gets zapped by Lord V? What if Lucius starts getting grandiose ideas and Voldemort squashes him? (Don't really see that happening.) What if Crabbe's or Goyle's father were to cross Voldemort and get eliminated? My prediction for the future is that at some point Harry is going to save Draco's life, and Draco will be put into the same position as Snape -- hating a Potter, yet indebted to him. I could see Draco reluctantly turning away from The Dark Lord for some reason, yet resenting the reason why, for the rest of his life. I guess this whole Draco thing bothers me a lot because in fanfic, Draco is never the little Nazi, like he is in the canon. He's always (somewhat reluctantly) on the same side as Harry. While I have no problem with his "conversion" if it's realistic (as in the stories by Lori and Cassandra (PoU, TSNE, DD, DS -- see http://www.yahoogroups.com/ParadigmofUncertainty ), I do wonder what JKR herself has in mind for his "character development." How many of you think Draco will come over to Dumbledore's side by the end of Book 7? Or will he die? Or will he just become a second Lucius, biding his time and plotting to become a Dark Lord himself? ---------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 21:44:41 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:44:41 -0000 Subject: No problem! (was Cedric & the other wand problem) In-Reply-To: <95778o+eus7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957ck9+5tsd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11234 Jim wrote: > Exactly: "Kill the spare!" That's all Cedric is, the spare. But, > since Voldemort ordered Wormtail to do it, did Cedric's shadow come > out of Voldemort's wand? Maybe Wormtail doesn't have one, having > escaped as a rat, so he uses his master's. Surprised Voldemort trusts > him with it; and how did Voldemort carry his away when he lost his > body thirteen years ago? Cedric was killed by Wormtail with Voldemort's wand. Wormtail is carrying V's wand and V himself at the time. Unfortunately, Voldemort's trust in him--or trust in the power he holds over him--seems to be well-founded. Wormtail hasn't slipped anything into his nightly venom all these months. The question of what Animagi, werewolves, and all-but-disembodied wizards do with their wands is a problem, I suppose, but it's one I choose to ignore. An animagus can clearly transform from fully dressed, glasses-wearing, wand-bearing human to naked animal and back. Why? Because JKR says so. So wizards who flee to Albania with almost no corporeal form "carry" their wands with them in some way also. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone ----------------------------------------------------------------- From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 21:48:06 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:48:06 -0000 Subject: Neville, esp. parents In-Reply-To: <954vr0+sdeb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957cqm+v570@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11235 Karin wrote: > Why doesn't anyone seem to know about his parents? I wonder whether Hermione knows. She's read up on the history of V's rise and fall and it may well have been in there. Score another 2 points for her sensitivity if so, for reaching out to Neville and keeping his loss to herself. Trina, great thoughts on Neville, and I agree he showed a lot of guts re: the Yule Ball, more than Harry or especially Ron (who never did ask anyone--Fleur doesn't count 'cause he was enchanted [veela'd?]). Amy Z ------------------------------------------------ "Cool, sir!" said Dean Thomas in amazement. "Thank you, Dean," said Professor Lupin. . . -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------ From john at walton.to Tue Jan 30 22:05:30 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:05:30 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Harold Bloom on HP In-Reply-To: <001001c08afc$2e36aa20$c4f5bfc8@oemcomputer> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11236 See, in my opinion, JKR should go out and drink an entire bottle of good champagne herself. When you write books that are good enough to become worldwide bestsellers (and without media publicity), you've come to the pinnacle. The proverbial icing on the cake (or Rock) is when you have a BACKLASH. We've seen this over the past few weeks with the recent "controversy" over the alleged "slagging" of Lori and Cassie on a certain other group which shall remain nameless. Lori said something like "I have a backlash. My life is complete." 'Nuff said. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 30 22:09:11 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:09:11 -0600 Subject: HP Artist in San Antonio Message-ID: <3A773B87.C131632F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11237 This is for those of you who live in the San Antonio area (sorry if it's a repost, I wanted to get this up and so I haven't gone through all the email yet). I just got a postcard inviting me to a show at the Warner Brothers store, with special guest Fred Bode, "Artist and Chief Character Designer for Harry Potter (TM)." I of course RSVPd immediately, and the guy told me this artist was handpicked by JKR. It's a promo deal; they're selling stuff and this guy will sign it. I mentioned that question & answer would be nice, but he wasn't sure Fred Bode would do that. But I'll try to ask him about the scar alignment anyway. ANYway, I can take up to four people with my invite (email me privately and we'll work out how to meet), or if you call the guy he can send you a postcard too (you need it to get in). Here's the particulars: Organizer at the WB store - Pete Tercero, 210-348-0083. Date - Sunday, February 18, 2001 Time - 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. --Amanda From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 22:09:54 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:09:54 -0000 Subject: Versifying Ford Anglia (was Ode to Susan McGee) In-Reply-To: <9574t9+hmj9@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957e3i+v5fn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11238 Joywitch wrote: > Am I the only one frightened by the fact that Neil has started > writing poetry? LOL! I'm thrilled. Let's all start breaking the rules systematically so he'll write some more. Neil, how about a filk? No one's written a paean to enchanted cars yet. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." --HP and the Philosopher's Stone ------------------------------------------------------ From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Tue Jan 30 22:08:42 2001 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 30 Jan 2001 22:08:42 -0000 Subject: New file uploaded to HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980892522.32187.1315.a3@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11239 Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the HPforGrownups group. File : /Fan Fiction/HP and the Song of Time/omnibusa.html Uploaded by : john at walton.to Description : Harry Potter and the Song of Time -- Omnibus A -- Prologue-Chapter 5 in one handy file. Set after Hogwarts at the Institute at St Andrews, Britain's foremost wizarding institution of higher education, we discover the true range of Harry, Hermione, Ron and Draco's powers, learn more about the wizarding world and meet some new characters. Some material inspired by Cassandra Claire's "Draco Dormiens". You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Fan+Fiction/HP+and+the+Song+of+Time/omnibusa.html To learn more about eGroups file sharing, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, john at walton.to Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From aiz24 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 22:20:41 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:20:41 -0000 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP In-Reply-To: <001001c08afc$2e36aa20$c4f5bfc8@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <957enp+7ddn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11240 Andrea wrote: > His opinion really surprised me. Does any of you also think that the language is so poor in the HP books? Have critics been that harsh in general? No and no. I think HP is not only a blast but very well-written, otherwise I'd never be able to read and reread it (whoever asked: I'm on listen #2 and read #3 or more of the books--only started reading them in November--yikes!) I think I have pretty picky literary standards; for example I agree that Stephen King is a terrible, terrible writer. (NO FLAMES PLEASE!) One thing JKR does incredibly well that SK couldn't do to save his life is write realistic dialogue. Bad dialogue makes me put a book down faster than anything else. And I know the kind of writing Bloom is criticizing (no one ever walks, they just stretch their legs) and I couldn't disagree more with his opinion that JKR is guilty of it. As for critics, they've been pretty kind to HP here (e.g. the New Yorker, snobbish determiner of What Cultured People Should and Should Not Read par excellence, raved). Every critics has his or her own opinion--some well-supported, some not, many simply idiosyncratic--and I think people take them entirely too seriously. Harold Bloom is a very smart guy and I respect a lot of his opinions, but I'm not going to take them or anyone else's as gospel. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- Many people said he hadn't noticed he was dead. --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ------------------------------------------------------------------- From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 30 22:11:56 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:11:56 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Arabella Figg References: <20010130010052.24377.qmail@web5204.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A773C2B.5A1227BA@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11241 A B wrote: > we're told her house smells of cabbage > whenever Harry stays there. Cabbage seems to be > associated with the magic world. The Polyjuice Potion > tastes of over-cooked cabbage, and IIRC, Snape's > dungeon smells like cabbage, too. It might just be that JKR doesn't particularly like the smell....forgive me, O Brits, but cabbage isn't eaten with great regularity Over There, is it? My husband's a Polack, we eat it a lot, but it *does* smell nasty when cooking, so maybe it's just a handy, lots-of-people-will-identify icky smell. Or are there traditional magical connotations I'm unaware of? --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From nickdeller at ntlworld.com Tue Jan 30 22:20:09 2001 From: nickdeller at ntlworld.com (Nick Deller) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:20:09 +0000 Subject: Cedric's death and Cho In-Reply-To: <980891858.121403.96078.l9@yahoogroups.com> References: <980891858.121403.96078.l9@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11242 In message <980891858.121403.96078.l9 at yahoogroups.com>, HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com writes >Cedrics death is not extraneous to the plot. It may not have many >consequences as to how the plot continues to unfold, or if Harry is >blamed in the future, or any other issues with regards to the good >guys, but it does establish an important point about the characters >of and relationship between V and wormtail. The killing is a totally >callous act, not regarded as an event by Wormtail or V; Voldemort >tells Wormtail to kill Cedric, Cedric dies. End of Story. Wormtail >obeys his master with no thought to his victim or the crime he has >been ordered to commit. Voldemort sees Cedric as a non-entity, a fly >on the windows sill, and crushes him without a thought. Apart from the comments above, I think Cedric's death is of prime importance for one of its knock-on effects. Most people seem to think "Oh well, nothing happened between Harry and Cho Chang in GoF, it's probably not going to now". I'm not so sure. The death of Cedric has freed up CC romantically, but has also directly connected Harry with her boyfriend's death. Quite how CC will deal with this, I wouldn't like to say - but I think her response to it might be pivotal to at least one of the remaining books. She might fall in love with HP as per first indications - equally, she might come to hate him and betray him. She might even do both. Keep a *very* close eye on that sub-plot next time out - I have a gut feeling that it's going to be important. Nick D. From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Tue Jan 30 22:32:43 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 30 Jan 2001 14:32:43 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP siting and thoughts and electricity Message-ID: <20010130223243.20485.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11243 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 30 22:38:07 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:38:07 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Ode to Susan McGee (was re: Netiquette etc.) References: <956981+ckcr@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A77424E.ABC8F3DB@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11244 Neil Ward wrote: > Susan wrote: > > > SWINE! your days are numbered! > > > > How come no one pays any attention to my posts that are > > designed to break all the rules? > > **** > > ODE TO SUSAM MCGEE > > Oh, Ms McGee we are not fools; > We're well aware you break the rules. > It seems you break the mould as well, > And plan on making merry hell. > > A mistress of the wild retort, > Your views are strong, your temper short > But, sometimes, when you don't complain, > The things you say are really sane. > > So, if you want to be a rebel; > Be assured, you'll be in trouble. > But, stay within the written guide, > And you'll be on our better side. > > We moderators tolerate, > And try not to officiate, > But `though of you I'm very fond > My hand is resting on my wand! > > Neil > Mechanimagus Moderator Alas, my days as Susan-toast Are numbered, with Neil's lengthy post, And all the Susan-fun I've wangled Yanking on the chains she dangled, Now it seems I must be sharing-- Wonder how *her* wand is faring? --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 30 22:41:07 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:41:07 -0600 Subject: Clotted cream revisted Message-ID: <3A774303.D998B08D@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11245 I was out buying big shortbread daisy cookies for my daughter's Daisy Scout initiation tonight, and passed a little British import shop, and am now the proud owner of a 6 oz. jar of "English Double Devon Cream," which is what the little proprietor gave me when I said "clotted cream." I also got a box of "Green's Ready to Mix Classic Scones." Two questions: What should I make or get to have with this culinary expedition? On the back of the scone mix, it says "Place the scones on a baking tray and leave for 5 minutes to prove at room temperature." What's "prove"? Rise? Onward into the unknown, Amanda From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 30 22:34:25 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 16:34:25 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) References: <957bhb+jv06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A774171.7CD57A64@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11246 Amy Z wrote: > Well, according to Muggle law, at least American Muggles, Sirius would > probably be his guardian; parents can name anyone they like guardian > of their child and that's usually the godparent(s). Right, list > lawyers? A relative could contest custody but the Dursleys > wouldn't've done that. Um, I didn't even *have* godparents, didn't know what they were until my brother was asked to be one for a friend's child. So I wouldn't say "usually the godparents," but yes, parents can indicate a preference for who should raise their child(ren). --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From Unlucky07 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 22:45:28 2001 From: Unlucky07 at hotmail.com (Unlucky07 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:45:28 -0000 Subject: Snape's Mission Message-ID: <957g69+ehab@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11247 Hey Gang, I just signed up with the group and I am enjoying reading everybodys thoughts about Harry Potter. I have tried going through the archive but it may take me weeks before I am caught up. One question, and I don't know if it's been discussed, is Snape's mission given by Dumbledore after GofF. I may be one of the few that actually like Severus' character. From what I have read it seems that although Snape is a very coldhearted man there is still some decency in him. We never did find out exactly how Snape was involved with Voldemort. There may actually have been people that were forced by Voldemort and Snape may be one of them. If this is true then Snape's possible mission would be that he will infiltrate Voldemorts group and act as Dumbledore's spy. I don't know if this has een discussed but I sure would appreciate people's thoughts on one of my favorite characters. From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 22:47:30 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:47:30 -0000 Subject: The problem with posting fic here Message-ID: <957ga2+5trt@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11248 ...is this: there's no stats and now way to know if anybody's read our stuff, and no reviews either. That essential ego stroking (the fic author's Jones) is missing; and few people are going to go to ff.net and enter a review if they picked up the fic here. From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 22:48:10 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:48:10 -0000 Subject: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <957bhb+jv06@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957gba+etqc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11249 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > Marvin wrote: > > Well, according to Muggle law, at least American Muggles, Sirius would > probably be his guardian; parents can name anyone they like guardian > of their child and that's usually the godparent(s). Right, list > lawyers? A relative could contest custody but the Dursleys > wouldn't've done that. Well, plus there was the ancient magic thing. But the Potters might not have had time to make a will. Although, who knows what wizarding law is like in this respect? It doesn't sound as if the legal system is very strong. > > But of course this godfather has rather taken himself out of the > running, or so Dumbledore thinks. Which just brings us back to the > tangled question of what Dumbledore et alia knew, when, about Sirius > during those first couple of days after James and Lily died. AD knows > already that Sirius betrayed them--but then why doesn't he warn Hagrid > that Sirius is dangerous?--and on the evidence of their actions in bk > 1 ch 1, McGonagall knows too but Hagrid doesn't. . . ?? > > Is there a discussion of this somewhere? I couldn't find it in the > archive. > Several questions to ponder while waiting for book five, then. :) Did Dumbledore know about the switch from Sirius to Pettigrew? If so, then there would be no need to warn Hagrid about Sirius. It also sounds as if Hagrid wasn't given much in the way of instruction from Dumbledore other than to get there and find Harry. If McGonagall did have any idea about the whole Fidelius charm thing, wouldn't she say something when Hagrid mentioned Sirius (about the motorcycle)? There would probably be no reason for not telling Hagrid then. Charmian From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 22:39:27 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:39:27 -0000 Subject: Wizard Wealth (was Weasleys being poor) In-Reply-To: <20010130183923.5330.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <957fqv+r81b@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11250 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., A B wrote: > > --- Jim Ferer wrote: > > > > Wealth: Wealth -- gold, for a wizard -- has to be > > the same as we > > understand it. If any competent wizard could > > conjure it, gold > > wouldn't be all that valuable anymore. The same > > goes for things like > > clothes or material items: if they were that easy to > > get, what use > > would money be? > > > Isn't it interesting that wizards use actual gold, and > not pieces of paper that used to represent gold, but > nowadays represents a given "value"? How might this > fit into the scheme of things? > Well, perhaps they aren't using real gold (as real gold, that is 24k gold, would be very soft and the galleons not deforming everytime people drop them), but some sort of interesting alloy. To indulge in pointless speculation, it is interesting that they don't have paper currency, which took awhile to catch on in the West. Their banking system seems founded on just putting the money in the vaults and leaving it, which is not what has happened in a real bank for ages. (Did Harry get interest on his parents' money?)To have paper money, you need a stable government and real faith in the cash; there seems no reason why wizards should be unable to produce uncounterfeitable money.... I recall reading somewhere that the paper money partially evolved out of bank notes. If Gringotts is too conservative to do such things, that could explain it. Charmian (another rather silly post :)) From jferer at yahoo.com Tue Jan 30 22:40:13 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:40:13 -0000 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP In-Reply-To: <001001c08afc$2e36aa20$c4f5bfc8@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <957fsd+o27j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11251 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Andrea H Bonfanti" wrote: > This week, Veja, the most prestigious Brazilian weekly magazine, interviews literary critic Harold Bloom. Here is what he says about HP (the translation is mine, so bear with me): > > "Veja: Are books like the Harry Potter series a good start, a way to sparkle children's interest in reading? > > Bloom: Do you really believe children will read better books after reading Harry Potter? I don't think so. And one of the worst writers in America, Stephen King (he's terrible, I can't even read a couple of paragraphs by him) has confirmed my worst fears in a review he wrote for The New York Times. According to him, the 12-year-olds who are now reading Potter will be ready to read his books at the age of 16. Do I need to say more? The USA are a country in which television, movies, video games, computers and Stephen King have ruined reading. Mr. Bloom might have a point that the Harry Potter series may not fix the literary problems of an entire nation, but what's his answer? I doubt reading his material will change things. > Veja: Why should one not read J. K. Rowling's books? > > Bloom: I have only read one of her titles. The language is horrible. Nobody, for instance, "walks" in that book. The characters "stretch their legs", which is an obvious cliche. The whole book is full of these well-worn, second-hand phrases. I've written a negative review of Harry Potter for the Wall Street Journal. It was instant controversy. Over 400 letters were sent, calling me the worst names imaginable. Defense for such kind of bad books comes from everywhere - parents, children, media - and it is very unsettling and not at all healthy." I wish people would stop sending flames to people like Mr. Bloom. He's entitled to his opinion, and some people just love to get vilified like that. To me, JKR uses simple, straightforward language that doesn't get in the way. I admire other authors' writing (as craft) more than hers, but her ideas,themes and characters are incomparable. I think the following excerpt from a profile of Mr. Bloom on the Stnford Presidential Lectures site will give some insight into where he's coming from and convince some people Mr. Bloom is a literary snob: (Excuse me. An *envious* literary snob) "Bloom's principal target in this first phase of his career was the conservative formalism of T. S. Eliot, who had dismissed the Romantics as undisciplined poets of nature. Eliot's position became an article of faith in the New Criticism that dominated the American academy in the 1950s and early 1960s. Bloom rejected this view, displacing the essence of Romantic art from reconciliation with nature to a visionary imagination profoundly antithetical to nature. In Bloom's reading, the Romantic poem does not represent the artist's harmonious union with the world but instead enacts his heroic refusal of time and matter." This is exactly what we need to capture the minds and imaginations of 9 to 12 year olds, isn't it? From star_ling at crosswalkmail.com Tue Jan 30 23:00:31 2001 From: star_ling at crosswalkmail.com (Star) Date: 30 Jan 2001 15:00:31 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? Message-ID: <20010130230031.622.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11252 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From john at walton.to Tue Jan 30 23:11:34 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:11:34 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Clotted cream revisted In-Reply-To: <3A774303.D998B08D@texas.net> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11253 Amanda Lewanski wrote: > What should I make or get to have with this culinary expedition? > On the back of the scone mix, it says "Place the scones on a baking tray > and leave for 5 minutes to prove at room temperature." What's "prove"? > Rise? Homemade jam, preferably with fruits of the summer -- strawberries or raspberries, IMHO. "Prove" is basically "rest". Perhaps it has something to do with yeast? Or perhaps to cool from the mixing. I honestly have very little clue. --John, who gets his scones from a wonderful little bakery around the corner so has no need to waste time on his antiquated oven baking them. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From editor at texas.net Tue Jan 30 23:15:55 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:15:55 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape's Mission References: <957g69+ehab@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A774B2B.9BA63FC0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11254 Unlucky07 at hotmail.com wrote: > I may be one of the few that actually like Severus' character. Don't bet on it. He's very popular. > From what I have read it seems that although Snape is a very > coldhearted man there is still some decency in him. Well put. > I don't know if this has een discussed but I sure would appreciate > people's thoughts on one of my favorite characters. Be careful what you ask for.... I don't have reams of time right now, but I'll try to find some old post numbers for you later this week, so you can see some of the ideas we've tossed around (without having to wade through all of it). --Amanda, Snapelover [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From mlleelizabeth at aol.com Tue Jan 30 23:15:54 2001 From: mlleelizabeth at aol.com (mlleelizabeth at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:15:54 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Is Draco Redeemable? (was Re: The Death of Cedric) Message-ID: <54.f5fd6e3.27a8a52a@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11255 In a message dated 1/30/2001 4:05:32 PM Central Standard Time, klaatu at primenet.com writes: > I guess this whole Draco thing bothers me a lot because in fanfic, Draco is > never the little Nazi, like he is in the canon. He's always (somewhat > For those of you looking for a non-redeemed Draco: My beta reader just let me know that chapter 2 of my Evil Draco Fic should be ready for posting either tomorrow or early Thursday. If you'll let me know you are interested in private email, I'll tell you when and where I get it posted. Love & Light, *E*l*i*z*a*b*e*t*h* ~ You can never have too many Weasleys ~ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From john at walton.to Tue Jan 30 23:06:32 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:06:32 +0000 Subject: Movie Title Differences=soundtrack differences / Hermione in PS-SS Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11256 Two points here. Has anyone heard whether, since there are going to be two different titles for the movie (Philosopher's Stone in the UK & International and Sorceror's Stone in the US), they're going to record scenes where the Stone is mentioned twice, once for the US and once for everywhere else? I'd think that "Philosopher" and "Sorceror" can't simply be dubbed over. Anyone (especially in the business) got knowledge/thoughts about this? HERMIONE IN PS/SS General question. At what point in PS/SS did you realise that Hermione was going to be part of the Harry/Ron group and not some random student? For me it was the sorting into Gryffindor. Anyone want to share? :) --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From john at walton.to Tue Jan 30 23:19:07 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:19:07 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] The advantage to posting fic here In-Reply-To: <957ga2+5trt@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11257 Jim Ferer wrote: > ...is this: there's no stats and now way to know if anybody's read our > stuff, and no reviews either. That essential ego stroking (the fic > author's Jones) is missing; and few people are going to go to ff.net > and enter a review if they picked up the fic here. OTOH, there's no ff.net to worry about either. ::throws dirty look at FFN:: Some people can't get to FFN, others don't particularly want to search through X number of chapters to get to the latest...oy vay. --John, in a bad mood with FFN for handling the chaptering issue WORSE than Yahoo handled the eGroups merger. Yeah. THAT BAD. == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 30 23:19:02 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:19:02 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chapter - "Offense" - R. Skeeter - Snape/Slytherin - Madness - Cedric In-Reply-To: <3A7652E1.92B71E7@wicca.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010130150045.032fbbc0@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11258 At 09:36 PM 1/29/01 -0800, Catlady wrote: >I suppose this is an excuse for me to yet again suggest that someone >(other than me) write an omniscient version of GoF which shows that >*Snape* is the Death Eater loyally serving V at Hogwarts -- Crouch Jr >really was an innocent man falsely convicted -- Moody really was Moody >but on the day of the Maze, Snape put him under Imperius Curse to do >that bad stuff -- while Harry was in graveyard, Snape knocked out Moody >and put him in the trunk and Polyjuiced young Crouch and put Imperius >Curse on young Crouch (or simply hypnotised him as to what he was to do >and what story he was to tell) -- Snape made FAKE Veritaserum, so young >Crouch's word cannot be trusted as truthful -- Snape set the Dementor on >young Crouch to avoid discovery of Crouch's innocence and Snape's >scheme. I haven't yet figured out the alternate interpretations of >Crouch Sr, Winky, and the Dark Mark at the World Cup. If we put our heads together we could probably figure something out... An addtional suggestion made by someone on the Harry newsgroup is that Crouch Sr. is already dead by GoF and that Junior (or Snape, in your scenario) is impersonating *him* as well! (Are there any scenes in which Crouch and Snape appear together?) -- Dave From andeinmn at aol.com Tue Jan 30 23:22:47 2001 From: andeinmn at aol.com (andeinmn at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:22:47 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Clotted cream revisted Message-ID: <81.6397052.27a8a6c7@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11259 In a message dated 1/30/01 5:08:52 PM Central Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: > > Two questions: > What should I make or get to have with this culinary expedition? > On the back of the scone mix, it says "Place the scones on a baking tray > and leave for 5 minutes to prove at room temperature." What's "prove"? > Rise? Can't answer question 1, but yes, to proof the dough is to let it rise. Andrea, cuisine goddess From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Tue Jan 30 23:38:31 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:38:31 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harold Bloom on HP In-Reply-To: <957fsd+o27j@eGroups.com> References: <001001c08afc$2e36aa20$c4f5bfc8@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010130153525.00cc3500@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11260 At 10:40 PM 1/30/01 +0000, Jim Ferer wrote: >I wish people would stop sending flames to people like Mr. Bloom. He's >entitled to his opinion, and some people just love to get vilified >like that. And if he's like She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (Nancy Stouffer) he'll start pointing to the flames and say, "See? The Potter books turn people into raving loonies!" -- Dave From cad2 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 23:33:57 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:57 -0000 Subject: H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this ship? In-Reply-To: <20010130230031.622.cpmta@c001.snv.cp.net> Message-ID: <957j15+p3go@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11261 Being fairly new to the HP discussions, what is "shipping" who is a "shipper"?????? --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Star wrote: > > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: > > > > Penny > > Carole > > Lori > > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire > > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag > > Scott > > Heather > > Heidi > > > > I do believe there's more of you out there. > > > Umh, well I thought that by now you'd now that I'm on the H/H ship especially sense I've said several things supporting that ship AND asked ot be the entertainment director and what not, I know that some of my post weren't out when you wrote this but still, oh well, NOW you know and I'm never going anywhere, unless people keep forgetting that I'm here for H/H then I'm going to jumping off and joining the U- boat No Shipper. > ~Star~ > > > --------------------------------------------------- > Get your free web based email from Crosswalk.com: > http://mail.crosswalk.com From sashibuya at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 23:50:13 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:50:13 -0000 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP (semi-OT) In-Reply-To: <957fsd+o27j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957jvl+gni0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11262 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Jim Ferer" wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Andrea H Bonfanti" wrote: > > Mr. Bloom might have a point that the Harry Potter series may not fix > the literary problems of an entire nation, but what's his answer? I > doubt reading his material will change things. Actually, Bloom has written several interesting and very readable books on the classics (The Western Canon and Shakespeare: Invention of the Human), and I assume that reaching the public was part of his mission in writing them. > > I wish people would stop sending flames to people like Mr. Bloom. He's > entitled to his opinion, and some people just love to get vilified > like that. > Agreed. > > I think the following excerpt from a profile of Mr. Bloom on the > Stnford Presidential Lectures site will give some insight into where > he's coming from and convince some people Mr. Bloom is a literary > snob: (Excuse me. An *envious* literary snob) > Where do you get "envious" from? Why does this show him to be a snob? It's just a description of his career. Actually, that Bloom was even willing to be this outspoken actually shows him to be out of step with the current academy. > > This is exactly what we need to capture the minds and imaginations of > 9 to 12 year olds, isn't it? Although I disagree with his stance on Harry Potter and whether one should read him, I don't think we need to villify him for it, or for being a literary theorist. I don't need Bloom's approval to read Harry Potter, though I respect his work. In fact, it's pretty populist for a critic to even *care* about what the public is reading. I don't see Bloom as part of an organized backlash....I think some backlash is even healthy. Some of the hype is kind of obnoxious. I have mixed feelings about how HP has become a marketing juggernaut, though I'm glad that Rowling is now rich. For me, it's all about the books. Charmian From foxmoth at qnet.com Tue Jan 30 23:43:09 2001 From: foxmoth at qnet.com (foxmoth at qnet.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:43:09 -0000 Subject: Snape's Mission In-Reply-To: <957g69+ehab@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957jid+fkh9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11263 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Unlucky07 at h... wrote: > One question, and I don't know if it's been discussed, is Snape's > mission given by Dumbledore after GofF. I may be one of the few that > actually like Severus' character. Hi fellow Snape fan: There have been a lot of posts on Snape as a spy in this group. If you do a search on the keyword spy you will bring up quite a few of them. We have speculated that Snape was the "useful spy" that Fudge refers to in PoA, who informed Dumbledore that Voldemort had targeted the Potters. Opinions are divided on whether our Severus is really in a position to take up his spy role again. How will he deal with the fact that he was exposed as Dumbledore's agent during the trials, and interfered with Quirrel/Voldemort's attempts to steal the stone and harm Harry? I also invite you to join this group's Snape smitten sister: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Snapefans Pippin From cad2 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 30 23:49:37 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:49:37 -0000 Subject: Snape's Mission In-Reply-To: <3A774B2B.9BA63FC0@texas.net> Message-ID: <957juh+pnv4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11264 I guess I'm not a Snape-lover but I do appreciate that he makes Harry work and is one of the only Profs who actually consistantly removes points from Gryf. for Harry's talking out of turn, disruptions and carrying-ons. I do however think that whatever grudge Snape had with James should not carry forward to Harry. --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Amanda Lewanski wrote: > Unlucky07 at h... wrote: > > > I may be one of the few that actually like Severus' character. > > Don't bet on it. He's very popular. > > > From what I have read it seems that although Snape is a very > > coldhearted man there is still some decency in him. > > Well put. > > > I don't know if this has een discussed but I sure would appreciate > > people's thoughts on one of my favorite characters. > > Be careful what you ask for.... > I don't have reams of time right now, but I'll try to find some old post > numbers for you later this week, so you can see some of the ideas we've > tossed around (without having to wade through all of it). > > --Amanda, Snapelover > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From ardentdreams at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 00:14:40 2001 From: ardentdreams at yahoo.com (ardentdreams at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:14:40 -0000 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP In-Reply-To: <957fsd+o27j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957ldg+amc0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11265 > > Bloom: Do you really believe children will read better books after > reading Harry Potter? I don't think so. And one of the worst writers > in America, Stephen King (he's terrible, I can't even read a couple of > paragraphs by him) has confirmed my worst fears in a review he wrote > for The New York Times. According to him, the 12-year-olds who are now > reading Potter will be ready to read his books at the age of 16. Do I > need to say more? The USA are a country in which television, movies, > video games, computers and Stephen King have ruined reading. I guess that I would just need to ask how have we "ruined reading"? The scripts for televison, movies... even guides for video games require reading by children. I admit that perhaps the "classics" are being ignored. But, I would like to raise this question: Are we, perhaps, living in an era that is creating new children's classics? By far I wouldn't want to admit that Stephen King is an ideal reading choice for a sixteen year old, but what would be better? Tom Sawyer... with it's racial remarks... or Lois Lowry's " Killing Mr. Griffen" with the murders and deceit. Our world is slowly introducing our children to what we have created as "reality" by creating stories. We are asking their imaginations to grow... to accept things beyond them. By doing so we can not be upset when their imaginations lead them down a dark path. Are we asking them to give up innocence by reading Harry Potter? Is Stephen King now the "scum of literature"? I don't think so... I prefer to think that we are asking children to accept something beyond themselves. It is never easy to realize that the world is not all nice and easy... but then... it's not. > > Bloom: I have only read one of her titles. The language is horrible. > Nobody, for instance, "walks" in that book. The characters "stretch > their legs", which is an obvious cliche. The whole book is full of > these well-worn, second-hand phrases. I've written a negative review > of Harry Potter for the Wall Street Journal. It was instant > controversy. Over 400 letters were sent, calling me the worst names > imaginable. Defense for such kind of bad books comes from everywhere - > parents, children, media - and it is very unsettling and not at all > healthy." > > I wish people would stop sending flames to people like Mr. Bloom. He's > entitled to his opinion, and some people just love to get vilified > like that. I agree with you here that Bloom has the right to his opinion. I also think that sometimes people can take things too seriously. I just feel that perhaps his reasoning is broken down. I must ask why he questions the literary value behind Harry Potter. I was wondering if anyone knew where I can find a copy of Bloom's article. I suppose that in order to argue this intelligibly I would need to know what he said specifically. I just want it to be said for the record that I do not argree with his opinion that it is unhealthy to defend Harry. I actually think that for children especially... to defend, especially in writing, Harry-- or any literate work is a step to a deeper understanding of literature as a whole. I know that my brother, who is 11, started reading HP with the whole family. Since then he has taken a new look at reading. I know that for me it was the same when I was younger. I hated to read until I came across Ramona Quimby--- I am greatly impressed by my brother's new dedication to reading. I can not even begin to thank JKR for that. I think that the use of simplistic language was necessary to the audience the JKR was writing. Yes, I am 21, and I love to read HP... but I am not the intended audience. I would never begin to think that Mother Goose is bad literature just because it is simplistic... > This is exactly what we need to capture the minds and imaginations of > 9 to 12 year olds, isn't it? I totally agree with you... From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 00:17:27 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:17:27 -0000 Subject: OT: What makes a bestseller (was Harold Bloom on HP) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <957lin+bnt8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11266 John wrote: >When you write books that are good enough to become > worldwide bestsellers (and without media publicity), you've come to the > pinnacle. Ouch. "Books that are good enough to become bestsellers" implies that the books that become bestsellers are necessarily good and the books that don't are less good. Unfortunately this is seldom the case. The vast majority of bestsellers are garbage, I'm afraid (if Stephen King isn't a convincing example for you, pick your own--Danielle Steel? Harold Robbins?), while lots of terrific books are written that never get published, much less hit the charts. I think it's that good books tend to be challenging and that tends not to popularity. Sometimes you get both at once: a good book that actually sells. That's what we have with JKR (my opinion, not Harold Bloom's! ) and it is something to celebrate. But that doesn't mean that there's a causal relationship between the quality of the books and the number sold. Amy Z ----------------------------------------------------------------- "But won't they notice if you shut your ears in the oven door?" "Dobby doubts it, sir." --Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets ----------------------------------------------------------------- From rina at love-productions.com Tue Jan 30 23:51:23 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:51:23 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Hermione in PS-SS Message-ID: <013d01c08b17$bd851ca0$81008aac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11267 John wrote: <> For me, it was her very first scene. The moment she stepped into Ron and Harry's car and proceeded to talk talk talk, she seemed to be too strong a character to fade into the background. Neville faded, Malfoy was nasty, but Hermione was a perfect compliment. She just kind of pushed herself in, when she sat to see Ron's spell, and I didn't figure her for one to push back out. LOL Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 00:27:43 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:27:43 -0000 Subject: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <3A774171.7CD57A64@texas.net> Message-ID: <957m5v+13uj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11268 Amy Z: > > Well, according to Muggle law, at least American Muggles, Sirius would > > probably be his guardian; parents can name anyone they like guardian > > of their child and that's usually the godparent(s). Right, list > > lawyers? A relative could contest custody but the Dursleys > > wouldn't've done that. Amanda: > Um, I didn't even *have* godparents, didn't know what they were until my > brother was asked to be one for a friend's child. So I wouldn't say > "usually the godparents," but yes, parents can indicate a preference for > who should raise their child(ren). Right--you're writing much more clearly than I was. I don't have godparents either, but one of my mom's cousins was named our guardian in the event that both our parents died. In the case of people I know who have godparents, the godparents seem to also be the chosen guardians. The point is that Lily and James's choice for their child's guardian pre-empts nearness of kinship. Still curious about the whole timing-on-Oct. 31/Nov. 1 issue, Amy Z From voicelady at mymailstation.com Wed Jan 31 00:37:22 2001 From: voicelady at mymailstation.com (Jeralyn) Date: 30 Jan 2001 16:37:22 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Movie Title Differences=soundtrack differences / Hermione in PS-SS Message-ID: <20010131003722.1080.cpmta@c016.sfo.cp.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11269 An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 00:45:37 2001 From: joe_from_the_button_factory at hotmail.com (Isabelle) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:45:37 -0000 Subject: Movie Title Differences=soundtrack differences / Hermione in PS-SS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <957n7h+joqi@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11270 I'm just wondering whether we're going to get the American or British version in Canada. *looks glum* We get everything that bounces off the US, so it'll probably be the American version. I'd rather see the British version, or else I'll be confused. (I have the British versions of the books) Isabelle --- In HPforGrownups at y..., John Walton wrote: > Two points here. > > Has anyone heard whether, since there are going to be two different titles > for the movie (Philosopher's Stone in the UK & International and Sorceror's > Stone in the US), they're going to record scenes where the Stone is > mentioned twice, once for the US and once for everywhere else? I'd think > that "Philosopher" and "Sorceror" can't simply be dubbed over. > > Anyone (especially in the business) got knowledge/thoughts about this? > > HERMIONE IN PS/SS > > General question. At what point in PS/SS did you realise that Hermione was > going to be part of the Harry/Ron group and not some random student? For me > it was the sorting into Gryffindor. Anyone want to share? :) > > --John > > == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == > > John Walton john at w... > > "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as > distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." > --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 > > == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 00:48:48 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:48:48 -0000 Subject: Sirius in bk 1 ch 1 (was Who should raise Harry) In-Reply-To: <957gba+etqc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957ndg+ueej@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11271 Charmian wrote: > Several questions to ponder while waiting for book five, then. :) Did > Dumbledore know about the switch from Sirius to Pettigrew? If so, > then there would be no need to warn Hagrid about Sirius. If he'd known, he would've spoken up for Sirius and not let him go to Azkaban; instead he told the Ministry that S was the Potters' Secret-Keeper. (Sirius should've told him about the switch after their murders even if he hadn't done it before--Dumbledore might've believed him, or at least investigated. But I bet you don't get a phone call before you're sent to Azkaban without trial.) No, I think it's a sure thing he didn't know. At the time Hagrid went to get Harry, and for the next 12 years, Dumbledore thought Sirius was the traitor. I think not telling Hagrid was a real risk; (a) Hagrid might have given Harry to Sirius--slim chance, because when Dumbledore gives him instructions he follows them, but still . . . and more important, (b) Hagrid needed to know who to watch out for. What if Sirius really had been the traitor? He'd probably have killed Hagrid and Harry when he met Hagrid at the ruins of the house. > If McGonagall did have any idea about the whole Fidelius charm thing, > wouldn't she say something when Hagrid mentioned Sirius (about the > motorcycle)? That makes sense. The reason I thought she might have known was that you'd think that if she thought Sirius was a perfectly terrific wizard who was James's best friend and Harry's godfather, she'd have said something along those lines to Dumbledore in opposition to his bringing Harry to the Dursleys. (AD: "They're his only relatives." MM: "True, but James and Lily wanted Sirius to be his guardian.") On the other hand, we have your reasoning, plus the fact that when she learns James and Lily are dead she doesn't say what you would think would come to mind--"you mean Sirius betrayed them?" The thing about the motorcycle is the biggest puzzler to my mind. Hagrid clearly knows nothing to make him suspect Sirius. Dumbledore lets him take Sirius's bike back to him (another discrepancy with what we hear in PA, but we've dealt with that before) without warning him, "uh, be on your guard when you go back to Sirius Black," or better yet just telling him "Take it from me--don't bring him his bike. I'll explain another time"? Or has Sirius already been arrested by then and AD knows it, so he just lets Hagrid go, knowing it's a wild goose chase but that he won't come to any harm? One explanation for any discrepancy is that JKR herself didn't know the Sirius story at the time, but I really doubt this is the case. It is too pivotal for her not to have sketched it out, and she's said she had the Scabbers stuff worked out from the beginning so she probably had the Sirius part of the story worked out too. Amy Z ---------------------------------------- "This is the weirdest thing we've ever done," Harry said fervently. --HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ---------------------------------------- From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 31 00:47:47 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:47:47 -0500 Subject: OT: Richard III References: <957bue+eine@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A7760B3.26840E4F@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 11272 And if anyone wants to read a version of the story of RIchard III which is actually supported by historical records, and the fact that Richard would've ruled as regent for about a decade if the older of his nephews became king (and had his own right to rule) and the fact that King Henry VII, who became king after defeating Richard, ONLY had the right to rule if the children were dead, try Josephine Tey's The Daughters of Time (a novel about historical research - it's a lot more exciting than that sounds!) Amy Z wrote: > Marvin wrote: > > > In this case I think that "unliterariness" was part of the point. > > Cedric's death reminded me of one of those scenes in gangster movies > > where the bad guy reaches out with his .45 and blows some poor > slob's > > head off just for the hell of it. The closest literary parallel > that > > jumps to my mind is in Richard III, when Richard orders the children > > in the Tower of London killed; it's not something he needs to do, > > necessarily, it's just convenient. > > Which is one of many reasons to conclude that Richard didn't order the > deaths of the children. He had no reason whatsoever. Poor Richard > got slandered but good by that play. (It's a good play anyway > though.) > > ;-) > Amy Z > > > Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our > website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From msmacgoo at one.net.au Wed Jan 31 00:57:55 2001 From: msmacgoo at one.net.au (msmacgoo at one.net.au) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:57:55 -0000 Subject: Versifying Ford Anglia (was Ode to Susan McGee) In-Reply-To: <957e3i+v5fn@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957nuj+u556@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11273 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > Joywitch wrote: > > > Am I the only one frightened by the fact that Neil has started > > writing poetry? > > LOL! I'm thrilled. Let's all start breaking the rules systematically > so he'll write some more. > > Neil, how about a filk? No one's written a paean to enchanted cars > yet. > > Amy Z I'm *frighted* by the threat to go for the wand! What happens then Neil? Do you get stuck in top gear and run amok? should we run, duck and cover? storm > > ------------------------------------------------------ > "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." > --HP and the Philosopher's Stone > ------------------------------------------------------ From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 31 00:56:03 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:56:03 -0500 Subject: Semi-OT The advantage to posting fic here References: Message-ID: <3A7762A3.58AEA7E4@alumni.upenn.edu> No: HPFGUIDX 11274 John Walton wrote: > Jim Ferer wrote: > > > ...is this: there's no stats and now way to know if anybody's read our > > stuff, and no reviews either. That essential ego stroking (the fic > > author's Jones) is missing; and few people are going to go to ff.net > > and enter a review if they picked up the fic here. > > OTOH, there's no ff.net to worry about either. ::throws dirty look at FFN:: > Some people can't get to FFN, others don't particularly want to search > through X number of chapters to get to the latest...oy vay. > Right - as if we needed one *more* technical web issue to deal with this week! But we can create a way to have stats on stories uploaded to hp4gu or hp_fanfiction (which is where I've put my chapters) - all you need to do is put in a link to a counter on your html-coded page. No public reviews linked to the story, but you could just create a file in your folder in the database & ask people to put reviews up there. Yes, I know it would require math on your part to get the reader/review ratio but you wouldn't have to deal with ff.net... From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 01:01:16 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:01:16 -0000 Subject: Snape, my faithful servant In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010130150045.032fbbc0@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <957o4s+pura@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11275 Dave wrote: > If we put our heads together we could probably figure something > out... An addtional suggestion made by someone on the > Harry newsgroup is that Crouch Sr. is already dead by GoF > and that Junior (or Snape, in your scenario) is impersonating > *him* as well! (Are there any scenes in which Crouch and > Snape appear together?) Yup, the names coming out of the Goblet and the subsequent argument about Harry as 4th champion. Okay, I shouldn't encourage you people, but I think that's easily dealt with. Crouch Sr. isn't looking too good, right? Even Harry in his shocked state notices, AD's worried about him (Crouch), and Crouch hardly says a word. So: he is actually an android programmed with the rules of the tournament and a few key facts like the name "Weatherby." Snape breathes a sigh of relief when he's gotten through that sticky little scene, deactivates him, and gets back to serving his Master. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We don't send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts!" -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 31 00:26:00 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 00:26:00 -0000 Subject: Amanda, Have A Gander (one of "The Unforgivable Verses": a bit OT, a bit Admin... work it out yourselves!) References: <956981+ckcr@eGroups.com> <3A77424E.ABC8F3DB@texas.net> Message-ID: <00c601c08b1c$639f3fe0$c03770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 11276 Amanda rhymed: > Alas, my days as Susan-toast > Are numbered, with Neil's lengthy post, > And all the Susan-fun I've wangled > Yanking on the chains she dangled, > Now it seems I must be sharing-- > Wonder how *her* wand is faring? *** AMANDA, HAVE A GANDER Amanda! Thanks for that reaction To my moderating action. However, I am tempted, too, To say a few things about you: - Although your posts are fun and fine, You say a lot and don't combine. Compared to Susan's posting habits, Your messages: they breed like rabbits! Rest assured, we have your measure, Even though you are a treasure. Font of knowledge; fan of Snape, Please, mend your ways with Spellotape. *** (With all this rhyme I don't intend, A single member to offend. I want y'all to see that we've set Some common rules of netiquette.) Neil, Neil, Orange Peel Moderator Team _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From malinaschick at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 01:24:09 2001 From: malinaschick at hotmail.com (Steph Widger) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:24:09 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cedric's Death-Hope I'm not repeatative... Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11277 Alrite, I want to respond to this message and I've been reading through what all of you thought and I just want to put in my two cents and what I think, I just hope I don't repeat a whole lot... Scott wrote: <> I know that I did. I cried my eyes out. I can still see the day, driving home from Albright like it was yesterday. I did blaw. I don't remember if it started at the end of term feast with Dumbledore, or if it was when he actually died. And now, re-reading it, I wonder how much worse it's gonna be at the end. Because I know what's coming and when things like, "Always modest our Ced, always the gentleman..." -Amos Diggory, are said...I almost cried when I read that, thinking about how he is in the end with the cup and Harry. *sigh* It was emotional for me. <> I can't remember if anyone said this, but I think while it shows Voldemort doesn't care who he kills, it also shows that the good people get killed too. As with Lily and James, Cedric was a wonderful boy, imo. I'd marry Cedric if I could. :) Sorry, that's ot...I think it says, I'm big, I'm powerful, and I can kill this kid w/o feeling a thing, I don't care who he is or what he's done. Good people die, and kids die, as someone already beat me too. It's something hard for teenagers to go through, I should know, I've been there twice. Losing a friend is hard and it's gonna make the kids at Hogwarts appraciate what they've got 10x over. So, in that way, it was important-to show them what they had, and what could possibly happen to them. <> I guess you could say that...true she did write the books, but i've read them 3x each, if not more. I know the characters pretty well, and while I can't read their minds, I've gotten pretty good at telling what they'll do next. (Maybe it's cuz I've read them so many times. :) Maybe Cedric is a minor character, and maybe I'm overemotional, but I was attached to him and she really opened him up to us in this last book. *Sigh* Thoughts floating in my head are innumberal. I'm gonna go. Sorry if that was unnessacry and repeatative. @~~~ Steph "Plus-ya never know when Casey's gonna freak out on air." -Dan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From old_wych at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 01:28:40 2001 From: old_wych at yahoo.com (A B) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 17:28:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Clotted cream revisted In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010131012840.3572.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11278 > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > What should I make or get to have with this > culinary expedition? > > On the back of the scone mix, it says "Place the > scones on a baking tray > > and leave for 5 minutes to prove at room > temperature." What's "prove"? > > Rise? > Usually "proving" yeast means to put it in warm water with a bit of sugar and leave it rest in a warm place for about 10 minutes or so until it starts to bubble. You now know the yeast is still alive: it's proven itself. Since you're dealing with a mix here, I guess you just need to let the dough rest wile the yeast gets going. Anne __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From dherreid at colortechnology.com Wed Jan 31 01:46:06 2001 From: dherreid at colortechnology.com (dherreid at colortechnology.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:46:06 -0000 Subject: No problem! (was Cedric & the other wand problem) In-Reply-To: <957ck9+5tsd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957qou+kjk4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11279 ... So wizards who flee to Albania with > almost no corporeal form "carry" their wands with them in some way > also. > > I thought it had been established by the priori incantatem that some one else had to have been at Godric's Hollow to retrieve Voldemorte's wand, kill James and Lily with it and then hold it for V's eventual return. This had to be Peter Pettigrew or Barty Crouch Jr (Jr being the less likely of the two having been in Azkaban and imprisoned in his father's house). The only other wizard we know of who has had any dealings with V, post Godric's Hollow, was Prof. Quirrel. dherreid From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 01:58:25 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:58:25 -0000 Subject: Sirius in bk 1 ch 1 (was Who should raise Harry) In-Reply-To: <957ndg+ueej@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957rg1+fvmf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11280 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > Charmian wrote: > > > Several questions to ponder while waiting for book five, then. :) > Did > > Dumbledore know about the switch from Sirius to Pettigrew? If so, > > then there would be no need to warn Hagrid about Sirius. > > If he'd known, he would've spoken up for Sirius and not let him go to > Azkaban; instead he told the Ministry that S was the Potters' > Secret-Keeper. (Sirius should've told him about the switch after > their murders even if he hadn't done it before--Dumbledore might've > believed him, or at least investigated. But I bet you don't get a > phone call before you're sent to Azkaban without trial.) That's true. I wonder how many people knew that Sirius was the Secret- Keeper. I mean, he was the obvious choice, so perhaps everyone just guessed.... According to the nifty time line on the Lexicon page, Sirius got himself captured on November 1, one day after the attack, which occurred during the evening. So he didn't have much time to get word out. > > On the other hand, we have your reasoning, plus the fact that when she > learns James and Lily are dead she doesn't say what you would think > would come to mind--"you mean Sirius betrayed them?" Yes, that too. Plus she would have said something about the whole matter of the twelve dead people. > > The thing about the motorcycle is the biggest puzzler to my mind. > Hagrid clearly knows nothing to make him suspect Sirius. Dumbledore > lets him take Sirius's bike back to him (another discrepancy with > what we hear in PA, but we've dealt with that before) without warning > him, "uh, be on your guard when you go back to Sirius Black," or > better yet just telling him "Take it from me--don't bring him his > bike. I'll explain another time"? Or has Sirius already been arrested > by then and AD knows it, so he just lets Hagrid go, knowing it's a > wild goose chase but that he won't come to any harm? I'd suspect the latter. Perhaps he didn't want to upset Hagrid further, or was too busy worrying about Harry. I guess if he didn't know that Sirius had been arrested he could have reasoned that Sirius would just escape, and Hagrid would not be able to find him. Making up some inventive reasoning from Dumbledore might also solve the first problem. :) Let's try: If Dumbledore thought Sirius was the traitor, perhaps he'd predict that Sirius would avoid the scene after the attack, and thus Hagrid would be safe. After all, if he really was the traitor, he'd want to go underground after Voldemort was defeated, like Pettigrew did. Er, that's sort of weak. Somebody got a better one? I think there's definitely more to the timeline than we thought there was. Charmian From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Jan 31 01:59:02 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:59:02 -0000 Subject: Clotted cream revisted-OT In-Reply-To: <3A774303.D998B08D@texas.net> Message-ID: <957rh6+9s66@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11281 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Amanda Lewanski wrote: > I was out buying big shortbread daisy cookies for my daughter's Daisy > Scout initiation tonight, and passed a little British import shop, and > am now the proud owner of a 6 oz. jar of "English Double Devon Cream," > which is what the little proprietor gave me when I said "clotted cream." > I also got a box of "Green's Ready to Mix Classic Scones." > > Two questions: > What should I make or get to have with this culinary expedition? > On the back of the scone mix, it says "Place the scones on a baking tray > and leave for 5 minutes to prove at room temperature." What's "prove"? > Rise? > > Onward into the unknown, > Amanda "The Afternoon Tea Book" by Michael Smith has a terrific section on "how to properly eat a scone" for us Americans. It's a nice book crammed with recipes and other interesting tea facts. :-) Milz From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 31 01:44:53 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:44:53 -0000 Subject: Opening the Chamber of Secrets (on Lockhart) Message-ID: <00f901c08b27$7e805960$c03770c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 11282 Chamber of Secrets made a poor showing in our recent poll on which HP book was favourite, but, although I would still put CoS fourth, I have to say it is only a sliver behind the others. I've almost finished a re-read of it and it is wonderful. IMO, Gilderoy Lockhart is one of the most singularly unpleasant characters JKR has written and, perhaps, one of the reasons this book comes up a little short of the others. He is so completely self-obsessed, that it becomes stifling, in spite of the humour. Of course, he is a caricature, but he represents a kind of shallow, delusional vanity that is all too common in our convenience-driven world. Comments have been made about Rita Skeeter representing JKR's backlash at press intrusion (she denies it, of course). Lockhart looks to me like her dig at the publishers' early attempts to mould her media profile and other writers' jealousy at her success. His 'bestselling author' ego is built on plagiarism and bombastic marketing, the twin evils of the publishing world. Ironically, one part of Lockhart's confession to Harry, near the end of the book, could have been a cautionary note from JKR herself: "It's not all book signings and publicity photos, you know. You want fame, you have to be prepared for a long hard slog." I love the scene in the staffroom when all the other teachers gang up on Lockhart. It's a very revealing interaction and it's one of those moments that makes you want to cheer, despite the fact that Gilderoy was, predictably, heading for a fall. Not satisfied with that scene, JKR then allows Harry and Ron the pleasure of humiliating the wretch, before he snatches Ron's wand and wipes out his ego and his personality. JKR sure vented some spleen on that character... Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Jan 31 02:09:49 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:09:49 -0000 Subject: Sirius in bk 1 ch 1 (was Who should raise Harry) In-Reply-To: <957ndg+ueej@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957s5d+rofr@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11283 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > Charmian wrote: > > > Several questions to ponder while waiting for book five, then. :) > Did > > Dumbledore know about the switch from Sirius to Pettigrew? If so, > > then there would be no need to warn Hagrid about Sirius. > > If he'd known, he would've spoken up for Sirius and not let him go to > Azkaban; instead he told the Ministry that S was the Potters' > Secret-Keeper. (Sirius should've told him about the switch after > their murders even if he hadn't done it before--Dumbledore might've > believed him, or at least investigated. But I bet you don't get a > phone call before you're sent to Azkaban without trial.) > > No, I think it's a sure thing he didn't know. At the time Hagrid went > to get Harry, and for the next 12 years, Dumbledore thought Sirius was > the traitor. I think not telling Hagrid was a real risk; (a) Hagrid > might have given Harry to Sirius--slim chance, because when Dumbledore > gives him instructions he follows them, but still . . . and more > important, (b) Hagrid needed to know who to watch out for. What if > Sirius really had been the traitor? He'd probably have killed Hagrid > and Harry when he met Hagrid at the ruins of the house. > > > If McGonagall did have any idea about the whole Fidelius charm > thing, > > wouldn't she say something when Hagrid mentioned Sirius (about the > > motorcycle)? > > That makes sense. The reason I thought she might have known was that > you'd think that if she thought Sirius was a perfectly terrific wizard > who was James's best friend and Harry's godfather, she'd have said > something along those lines to Dumbledore in opposition to his > bringing Harry to the Dursleys. (AD: "They're his only relatives." > MM: "True, but James and Lily wanted Sirius to be his guardian.") > > On the other hand, we have your reasoning, plus the fact that when she > learns James and Lily are dead she doesn't say what you would think > would come to mind--"you mean Sirius betrayed them?" > > The thing about the motorcycle is the biggest puzzler to my mind. > Hagrid clearly knows nothing to make him suspect Sirius. Dumbledore > lets him take Sirius's bike back to him (another discrepancy with > what we hear in PA, but we've dealt with that before) without warning > him, "uh, be on your guard when you go back to Sirius Black," or > better yet just telling him "Take it from me--don't bring him his > bike. I'll explain another time"? Or has Sirius already been arrested > by then and AD knows it, so he just lets Hagrid go, knowing it's a > wild goose chase but that he won't come to any harm? > > One explanation for any discrepancy is that JKR herself didn't know > the Sirius story at the time, but I really doubt this is the case. It > is too pivotal for her not to have sketched it out, and she's said she > had the Scabbers stuff worked out from the beginning so she probably > had the Sirius part of the story worked out too. > > Amy Z Hmmm...you're post has me thinking. When WAS Sirius captured? Voldemort visited Harry's house on October 31. He wasn't delivered to the Dursleys until the evening of November 1, right? But in PoA, Fudge tells Rosmerta that the Ministry caught up with Sirius "the next day". Is "the next day" the day after Voldemort killed the Potters,hence Nov. 1 or is the "next day" the day after Harry was delivered to the Dursleys? And if the Potters were killed on Oct 31. at what time did Hagrid arrive at Godric's Hollow? :-)Milz From dherreid at colortechnology.com Wed Jan 31 02:21:08 2001 From: dherreid at colortechnology.com (dherreid at colortechnology.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:21:08 -0000 Subject: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <957gba+etqc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <957sqk+ppvq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11284 > > > > Several questions to ponder while waiting for book five, then. :) Did > Dumbledore know about the switch from Sirius to Pettigrew? If so, > then there would be no need to warn Hagrid about Sirius. My take on the whole affair is that Snape told Dumbledore that there was a traitor in his inner circle of trusted student/wizards. In order to flush the suspected traitor Pettigrew out they devised a plan through which he, Pettigrew, would think that only he and Sirius would know where James and Lily were. The whole thing went wrong in the end when Pettigrew, in a stroke of genious/luck, faked his own death and Sirius was sent to Azkaban without a trial. As of this moment I believe Dumbledore knew that the mauraders were animagii. dherreid From hedwigthecat at aol.com Wed Jan 31 02:28:49 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:28:49 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] HP Artist in San Antonio Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11285 In a message dated 1/30/2001 2:34:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, editor at texas.net writes: << I just got a postcard inviting me to a show at the Warner Brothers store, with special guest Fred Bode, "Artist and Chief Character Designer for Harry Potter (TM)." I of course RSVPd immediately, and the guy told me this artist was handpicked by JKR. It's a promo deal; they're selling stuff and this guy will sign it. I mentioned that question & answer would be nice, but he wasn't sure Fred Bode would do that. But I'll try to ask him about the scar alignment anyway. >> Fred is a great guy and a very talented artist. Yes, he was handpicked by JKR after she saw his outstanding concept art for Harry Potter. Enjoy your trip:) ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Wed Jan 31 02:48:49 2001 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 31 Jan 2001 02:48:49 -0000 Subject: Poll results for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980909329.297.14438.a6@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11286 The following HPforGrownups poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Did you receive any HP merchandise as a gift this holiday season? CHOICES AND RESULTS - I think my friends and relatives cleared out the stores., 14 votes, 33.33% - I got a few things, but I'm waiting for the after-Christmas sales., 20 votes, 47.62% - No, because I keep my HP fandom a secret., 1 votes, 2.38% - No, and I'm not too happy about it!, 7 votes, 16.67% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 03:12:22 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:12:22 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Staffroom scene References: <00f901c08b27$7e805960$c03770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A778296.DB7AF66F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11287 Neil Ward wrote: > I love the scene in the staffroom when all the other teachers gang up > on Lockhart. It's a very revealing interaction and it's one of those > moments that makes you want to cheer, despite the fact that Gilderoy > was, predictably, heading for a fall. This reminds me, I've been wanting to point this scene out for another reason. It's one of the very few times we observe the teachers interacting, unobserved (so far as they know). And there was a great deal of humor in the way they all handled it, and I was impressed with the way that they all picked up Snape's lead like a well-rehearsed act. For those who think Snape is totally unpleasant to everyone all the time, I would say: people don't interact with you that way, immediately catch your drift and join in, or be as ready to take your initiative unless they know you pretty well and are okay with you. Snape is "in" with the other teachers; they seem a fraternity to me. I can't quite phrase this exactly, sorry, but I hope you know what I mean. --Amanda Font of Knowledge, Fan of Snape [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 31 03:16:50 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:16:50 -0600 Subject: Shippy drinks Message-ID: <001501c08b34$46f9a520$a751a7ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11288 Well, I had some time on my hands this afternoon. As some of you may know, this can prove fairly dangerous. LOL We all know that the U-boat non-shippers are having a margarita party. Why should they be the only ones? Try these on for size. Ron/Hermione - passionately red, strong, with a definite kick and bite. 2 oz. vodka 1 oz. peppermint schnapps 1 oz. orange juice lots of grenadine Blend with ice and serve up Harry/Hermione - calm blue, not too strong, but with a kick of its own. 1 oz. blueberry schnapps 1/2 oz. blue curacao 1/2 oz. club soda dash of vodka splash of sour mix Harry/Ginny - pleasant pink, fairly weak but oh-so-sweet. 2 oz. sloe gin 2 oz. Sprite 1 tsp. grenadine *Southern Comfort can be substituted for sloe gin, but it loses the name joke. LOL Non-shippers - no color at all Absolut vodka, baby! These are the ones that I created today. Below there are alternates that I found in my search for ideas. If you want one for your ship, e-mail me with a few characteristics of the couple (hot, sweet, kick, etc) and I'll see what I can do. Meanwhile, I'm sure I'll keep playing. LOL Alternate R/H - All of the above, and sweet, too! 1 oz. vodka (from the freezer) 1 oz. raspberry cordial 2 oz. pink lemonade Half-fill a highball glass with crushed ice. Pour over combined vodka and raspberry cordial. Top with lemonade. Serve with a straw and spoon. Alternate H/H - all of the above, with a fun tangy taste 1 oz. Malibu Rum 1/2 oz. blue curacao fill with pineapple juice over ice Alternate H/G - still with the gin joke, but less sweet. 1 1/2 oz. gin cream dash of grenadine *shake with ice and strain into flute Have fun. Rina ****************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 03:16:20 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:16:20 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) References: <957sqk+ppvq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A778383.B63E2E7F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11289 dherreid at colortechnology.com wrote: > The whole thing went wrong in the end when Pettigrew, in a stroke of > genious/luck, faked his own death and Sirius was sent to Azkaban > without a trial. As of this moment I believe Dumbledore knew that the > mauraders were animagii. But, didn't he pretty strongly imply that Sirius had only just told him, when he [Dumbledore] was talking to Harry at the end of book 3 (I think)? --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 03:27:02 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:27:02 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Amanda, Have A Gander (one of "The Unforgivable Verses": a bit OT, a bit Admin... work it out yourselves!) References: <956981+ckcr@eGroups.com> <3A77424E.ABC8F3DB@texas.net> <00c601c08b1c$639f3fe0$c03770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <3A778605.FD7161E0@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11290 Neil Ward wrote: > AMANDA, HAVE A GANDER > > Amanda! Thanks for that reaction > To my moderating action. > However, I am tempted, too, > To say a few things about you: - > > Although your posts are fun and fine, > You say a lot and don't combine. > Compared to Susan's posting habits, > Your messages: they breed like rabbits! > > Rest assured, we have your measure, > Even though you are a treasure. > Font of knowledge; fan of Snape, > Please, mend your ways with Spellotape. You honor me, Lord Moderator But I must defend my ways; I post many little missives Hoping to ease others' days.... All the dedicated FAQers Struggling with aching heads, Combing through the massive postings Made by those who tangle threads-- I have taken pity on them! I reply to each in turn... AND I change my subject headings Lest the other listmom burn.... So now, thank you for the Gander Though I've heard they honk and bite, Soooo....please join us for the dinner We'll be roasting goose tonight.... --Amanda Font of Knowledge, Fan of Snape [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From joym999 at aol.com Wed Jan 31 03:33:30 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (joym999 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:33:30 -0000 Subject: Opening the Chamber of Secrets (on Lockhart) In-Reply-To: <00f901c08b27$7e805960$c03770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <95812a+k18a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11291 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Neil Ward" wrote: > IMO, Gilderoy Lockhart is one of the most singularly unpleasant characters JKR has written and, perhaps, one of the reasons this book comes up a little short of the others. He is so completely self- obsessed, that it becomes stifling, in spite of the humour. Of course, he is a caricature, but he represents a kind of shallow, delusional vanity that is all too common in our convenience-driven world. [snip] > JKR sure vented some spleen on that character... Let me take this occasion to repeat one of my pet theories. JKR has said in interviews that Lockhart is the only character actually based on someone she knows. I was wondering why she would even say that, as people who know her could probably figure out who she was talking about and word would inevitably get back to that individual, when I read something about her ex-husband (see below). It struck me then that Lockhart is probably based on her ex-husband. It is considered fairly socially acceptable to say nasty things about your ex, whereas if you say nasty things about other acquaintances its often considered rude, and JKR doesnt seem like the rude type. And she was only married to this guy very briefly, and admits it was a big mistake. Anyway, the story about JKRs ex is that some British tabloid interviewed him and he claimed that he had influenced the Harry Potter books. When the reporter asked JKR about this, she responded that her ex had about as much influence on Harry Potter as she had on the Tale of Two Cities. Well, anyway, thats my theory. --Joywitch From dwe199 at soton.ac.uk Wed Jan 31 03:59:17 2001 From: dwe199 at soton.ac.uk (Dai Evans) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:59:17 -0000 Subject: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <957sqk+ppvq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9582il+6uih@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11292 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., dherreid at c... wrote: . As of this moment I believe > Dumbledore knew that the mauraders were animagii. He can't have done. He would have realised that Black was entering Hogwarts as a dog and told the dementors and staff. Dai From neilward at dircon.co.uk Wed Jan 31 03:32:52 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:32:52 -0000 Subject: Snape & scenes outside Harry's PoV (was Staffroom scene) References: <00f901c08b27$7e805960$c03770c2@c5s910j> <3A778296.DB7AF66F@texas.net> Message-ID: <009d01c08b36$9325d980$163670c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 11293 Amanda said, re the teachers' taunting of Lockhart > This reminds me, I've been wanting to point this scene out for another > reason. It's one of the very few times we observe the teachers > interacting, unobserved (so far as they know). And there was a great > deal of humor in the way they all handled it, and I was impressed with > the way that they all picked up Snape's lead like a well-rehearsed act. > For those who think Snape is totally unpleasant to everyone all the > time, I would say: people don't interact with you that way, immediately > catch your drift and join in, or be as ready to take your initiative > unless they know you pretty well and are okay with you. Snape is "in" > with the other teachers; they seem a fraternity to me. I can't quite > phrase this exactly, sorry, but I hope you know what I mean. Yes, I know what you mean. That's what I was getting at when I called it a "very revealing interaction" and I agree totally on the different perception of Snape. Our view of Snape is essentially that of a boy viewing an unpopular, embittered teacher who tends to pick on him for kicks - it's bound to be a somewhat negative portrayal. That's not to say Snape is a fun guy to be around; just that he probably has facets we haven't seen. Look at Snape's passionate introduction to the subject of Potions (PS) and compare that to Lockhart's inept blundering (CoS): who would you rather have as a teacher? So much of what we see of the characters is from the oft-mentioned 'Harry's Point Of View,' so it's always fascinating to read things from a slightly different perspective. Although Harry overhears this particular scene from his hiding place in the cupboard, the teachers aren't aware of his presence, so we see their behaviour as a team rather than Harry's view of them as individuals. There are a couple of other such scenes that spring to mind, in CoS: the scene in Hagrid's hut, when Harry and Ron are hiding under the Invisibility Cloak, and the Polyjuice Potion scene with Draco Malfoy. In fact, 'eavesdropped' scenes in all the books provide us with valuable character and plot information. Other examples: Harry overhears Lucius and Draco in Borgin and Burkes - we learn how Lucius treats Draco; Harry overhears Molly and Arthur discussing him in the pub - this tells Harry important information about Sirius, but also about the Weasleys' genuine concern for him; The Three Broomsticks conversation - we learn about James and Sirius. and so on... There are also the 'remote viewing' scenes (Riddle's diary, Pensieve, Harry's dream et al) in which Harry is, essentially, invisible to the events. All of them loaded with clues... Neil _____________________________________ Flying-Ford-Anglia "My wife used to sneer at my feeble charms but one month into your fabulous Kwikspell course I succeeded in turning her into a yak! - Thank you Kwikspell!" [Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets] From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 04:05:29 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 04:05:29 -0000 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP (semi-OT) In-Reply-To: <957jvl+gni0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9582u9+imvj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11294 Charmian said: > Where do you get "envious" from? Why does this show him to be a snob? > It's just a description of his career. Actually, that Bloom was even > willing to be this outspoken actually shows him to be out of step > with the current academy. Her popularity likely has something to do with his vehemence, I'd guess. It comes across as sour grapes, to be sure. > Although I disagree with his stance on Harry Potter and whether one > should read him, I don't think we need to villify him for it, or for > being a literary theorist. I don't think what I said rose to the level of vilification, at all. > I don't need Bloom's approval to read > Harry Potter, though I respect his work. In fact, it's pretty > populist for a critic to even *care* about what the public is > reading. But doesn't that demonstrate how intensely narcissistic the literary process has become? They are sure of their superiority and their elite status, based on their own insular standards. Their writing is impenetrable and completely tied up in process. None of them believe in telling a story that reaches people or informs them. They're righting for each other, which is fine; I am pleased to leave them to it in peace. They are irrelevant. I mourn for the trees. > I don't see Bloom as part of an organized backlash....I think some > backlash is even healthy. Some of the hype is kind of obnoxious. I > have mixed feelings about how HP has become a marketing juggernaut, > though I'm glad that Rowling is now rich. For me, it's all about the > books. Agreed. There is a backlash against HP, but he's not part of it. And yes, the marketing hype is obnoxious. It is indeed all about the books. From harry_potter00 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 04:09:23 2001 From: harry_potter00 at yahoo.com (harry_potter00 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 04:09:23 -0000 Subject: Is Draco Redeemable? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <95835j+2psq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11295 Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: "Is anyone else seriously bothered by the fact that Draco comes in to Harry's train compartment at the end of GoF and actually TAUNTS him about the death of Cedric?" --Yes! Draco says: "You've picked the losing side, Potter! I warned you! I told you you ought to choose your company more carefully, remember? When we met on the train, first day at Hogwarts? I told you not to hang around with riffraff like this!" He jerked his head at Ron and Hermione. "Too late now, Potter! They'll be the first to go, now the Dark Lord's back! Mudbloods and Muggle-lovers first! Well - second - Diggory was the f-" "Is he a little psychopath, or what?" --Yes, probably... " guess this whole Draco thing bothers me a lot because in fanfic, Draco is never the little Nazi, like he is in the canon. He's always (somewhat reluctantly) on the same side as Harry. While I have no problem with his "conversion" if it's realistic (as in the stories by Lori and Cassandra (PoU, TSNE, DD, DS -- see website nder what JKR herself has in mind for his "character development." --Canon Draco and fanon Draco are almost two completely different characters. I LIKE fanon draco (in some stories) but it really strikes me that while he COULD be redemable, Draco's characterization in the canon so far points totally in the other direction. Draco understands what Voldemort is doing. He UNDERSTANDS Cedric's death, and the pain that it causes his family and friends, and he DOESN'T care. For goodness sake he told Harry and Ron via polyjuice in CoS that he hoped Hermione would die. Hermione(!) and he said it with 'relish'. These are not, IMO, the words of someone 'good' at heart. I DO think people can change, but Draco is truly his father's child. The apple doesn't fall to far from the tree, and that includes rotten Malfoy apples as well. "How many of you think Draco will come over to Dumbledore's side by the end of Book 7? Or will he die? Or will he just become a second Lucius, biding his time and plotting to become a Dark Lord himself? --Like I said at this point at least I can't really see Draco turning good. I'm not saying he won't but JKR will have to do a lot of development on Draco in future books to ever convince me he is more than what he seems. He obviously has problems. Yes he is a spoiled bigot, but by the end of GoF he seems to be even more than that. He way he treats Cedric's death, as if it is nothing, no I'll change that- He treats CD's death as if it is a (groping for word) as symbol, something for V supporters to be PROUD of. Well now that I've managed to "dis" Draco would someone care to slap on some leather trousers and come to his defence? Scott From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 03:57:26 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 21:57:26 -0600 Subject: Has Harry Seen the Worst Already? References: <954mo0+ilfb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A778D26.54F1E5D2@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11296 Hi -- naama_gat at hotmail.com wrote: > As to the scene in the graveyard - horrible things will happen now > that V. has risen again, and at a much higher frequency. However, I > still feel that Harry has, personally, gone through the worst thing > he has and will experience. *Nothing* could be worse than that > horrible spell. Seeing V. as the monstrous child, having his blood > "taken forcibly", watching Wormtail cut off his own hand, and, horror > of horrors - seeing V. rise again. And all the while - tied up, > helpless, knowing that he is going to die by V. hands, the same > person who muredered his parents, and be fed to his snake. Jeez. I > shouldn't at all wonder if he will start getting flashbacks several > years hence. I just think that if the books are going to get darker (they are per JKR) and there will be more deaths, likely deaths that will affect the fans more than Cedric's death did (again, per JKR), we (and Harry) can't have seen the worst of it yet. I don't see Book 4 as the crest and it will be downhill from here. I see it more as continuing to escalate in intensity and darkness, probably not falling off in tone until the very end of Book 7. I agree that the Graveyard scene was *horrible,* but I still wouldn't place a bet on it being the worst thing in a 7-book series (with 3 more books yet to come). Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kathleen at carr.org Wed Jan 31 04:26:36 2001 From: kathleen at carr.org (Kathleen Kelly MacMillan) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:26:36 -0500 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shippy drinks Message-ID: <200101310432.f0V4WXC21470@ccpl.carr.org> No: HPFGUIDX 11297 These are *fantastic*, Rina! I am going to try them out this weekend. (the R/H ones anyway!) You are hereby appointed the Head Bartender on the R/H (when your duties as Ambassador permit of course...maybe we'll have to make you Head Beverage Creator and get you an assistant!) Kathy AKA Elanor Gamgee who really is beginning to feel that business cards reading "Captain of the Good Ship R/H" would be much more interesting than ones that say "Children's Services Supervisor", though they would probably earn her strange looks at library conferences. From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 04:14:54 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:14:54 -0600 Subject: Hermione & the Boys References: Message-ID: <3A77913E.7557D133@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11298 Hi -- morine10 at aol.com wrote: > Me: > > > Hermione is bossy and even though she has lightened up > considerably and will IMO continue to do so, she will always be bossy. > > > > Penny: > > Not necessarily. Are you saying that we human beings aren't capable > of fully eradicating negative personality traits? Ever? > > Never. Actually, I don't think they are ever eradicated, just > tweaked. My, what an optimistic view of human nature. > She can take her naturally "bossy" nature and transform it into a less > > offensive means of helping others. These traits don't go away, but as > a > person grows they can learn how to use them constructively. Hmm ... I think it's actually fairly common for lots of 11-12 yr old girls to be "bossy," but I would guess most of them outgrow that tendency. I think that's the case with Hermione. > This is a major point of divergence between us - we really do not read > the arguments in PoA the same. Regarding the Firebolt, I feel that > Harry and Ron were being equally stubborn. Both prolonged that > argument. Yes, but Harry wanted to make up long before Ron did -- I think maybe even before Hagrid said something to them (although I can't recall that for certain & am too lazy to look it up at the moment - ). > As for the Crookshanks/Scabbers incident - IMO Hermione was acting > insensitive and spoiled. She was insensitive. I don't know about "spoiled" -- I'm not sure what being spoiled would have to do with that particular fight/issue. She was also stressed out, which I acknowledge was her own fault. > As for GoF--First let me say that I am not saying that Ron > was not at fault in this whole affair. He was absolutely being a > prat. > However, it is my view is that Harry prolonged that argument. He made > > himself inapproachable to Ron. My between the lines reading said that > it was Ron that made the attempts to make ammends....trying to catch > Harry's eye in Divination after Harry's smart remark, looking for > Harry in the common room when Harry is speaking with Sirius. Harry > had every right to be angry, but Ron was not prolonging anything. But > of course this is my interpretation. :) I think Ron was hugely at fault initially, which hurt & angered Harry. Harry then prolonged the argument out of stubborn pride. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From sashibuya at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 05:05:01 2001 From: sashibuya at hotmail.com (sashibuya at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:05:01 -0000 Subject: Snape & scenes outside Harry's PoV (was Staffroom scene) In-Reply-To: <009d01c08b36$9325d980$163670c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <9586dt+qojv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11299 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Neil Ward" wrote: > Amanda said, re the teachers' taunting of Lockhart <"revealing interactions snipped> Yes, Amanda, I remember the scene too! I also remember the interesting scene where Snape and Lockhart "duel." It's as if JKR was saying, "as irritating as Snape is, at least he's not an incompetent phony like Lockhart." I guess that's one of the reasons we don't dislike Snape, even if Harry does. Plus he does show a lot of personal courage throughout the series, even if it's usually manifests inconveniently for Harry. (i.e. being the one to deal directly with Quirrel, perhaps without Dumbledore's knowledge, going alone to face Black and Lupin, thinking that they were a psychotic madman and a werewolf, not running away like Karkaroff, his reaction to seeing Sirius again at end of GOF, etc.) On the subject of Snape's astounding popularity, my theory is that he isn't archetypal as the other characters. > > Yes, I know what you mean. That's what I was getting at when I called it a > "very revealing interaction" and I agree totally on the different perception > of Snape. Our view of Snape is essentially that of a boy viewing an > unpopular, embittered teacher who tends to pick on him for kicks - it's > bound to be a somewhat negative portrayal. That's not to say Snape is a fun > guy to be around; just that he probably has facets we haven't seen. Look at > Snape's passionate introduction to the subject of Potions (PS) and compare > that to Lockhart's inept blundering (CoS): who would you rather have as a > teacher? > You know, here's another question I've been wanting to ask but never found the right thread for. Does Snape really like being a teacher? Or does he not and that's one of the reasons he's so embittered (Why is Snape so bitter anyway, if one doesn't buy the Lily theory? ) He seems to enjoy potions, but hate the students. Certainly, even if one enjoys yelling at people, it can't be much fun to teach without liking the kids much, or thinking that one is actually accomplishing much. But if he dislikes the actual teaching process so much, why doesn't he find another job (I'm assuming that it wouldn't be hard for someone of his caliber)? Former Death Eater status doesn't seem to have hurt Malfoy and co. Charmian From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 04:46:27 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:46:27 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shipping through the cracks References: <200101301712.f0UHCbC18450@ccpl.carr.org> Message-ID: <3A7798A3.27607F04@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11300 Hi -- Kathleen Kelly MacMillan wrote: > Scott wrote: > > I guess that when it comes down to it I > >just don't like or relate to Ron. (I know that is no excuse) To a > >certain extent I also think that the character most like me is > >Hermione and so I want to set her up with the hero. > > See, crew? They even admit it! ;) "They"?? Or, Scott? See H/H'ers -- we get maligned as a group for the opinions/perceptions of one of our members. :--) For the record, I don't relate to Ron either, but I do like him. I prefer Harry & Hermione though -- by far. I relate to Hermione, and I like them both. I like them together. :) > Rina wrote: > >But maybe we all look at what we prefer in a relationship, and apply > >it to these characters? I think I do, sounds like Kathy might, and I > >believe Penny talked earlier about not seeing anything affectionate > in > >the constant bickering. Any thoughts? I know it's a generalization, > >but I'm just curious if it's on target. > > Well, you've pegged me right. That's why I find H/H (and the thought > of Harry as a boyfriend-did I mention how much identify with > Hermione?) rather boring. Funny that two obviously very different people (me and Kathy) could identify so strongly with Hermione. Makes Hermione all that much more interesting, doesn't it? > Actually I see a lot of parallels, and I am looking forward to reading > DrMM's take on things. Mostly I see the relationships as similar, the > way the two females keep the two males "grounded" so to speak. It > strikes me that Ron has a nice healthy fear of Hermione at times (in > PoA, he says something sarcastic while she's studying for finals, but > "very quietly"). Maybe it's a fear of upsetting her, I don't know, > but I see Arthur reacting to Molly in the same way. I don't know-I'll > wait and see what DrMM has to say before I blather on any more. I see Arthur as being a little bit "hen-pecked" if you want the truth. I love Molly Weasley for alot of reasons, but she is a tad overbearing. I think it was Elizabeth who says that Harry would just be hen-pecked by the shrew-like Hermione if he ended up with her. I don't see that trait in Hermione myself. But, maybe that's me wanting a nice partnership of equals marriage for *my* Hermione -- a nice "Calm" marriage with her soul-mate (Harry). Is there such a thing as a "nice healthy fear" of your partner/mate/love-of-your-life? Not in a Calm marriage (IMO). > OK, here's what's posted by our gangplank: > Welcome Aboard the Good Ship R/H! > While aboard our ship, please note the following rules and > regulations: > > 1) No defamation of Weasleys will be tolerated. This includes, > but is not limited to, implications that Ron is less than Harry, > suggestions that Ron will turn evil and betray his friends, and the > like. The penalty for this will be walking the plank, to be > administered immediately to violators by First Mate Mo (who can be > very surly, so watch out!) > 2) H/H-ers are welcome to visit for brief periods, but they > minute they try to convert crew members, they will be keelhauled. Be > warned, if an H/H-er stays for an extended time, he or she may be led > away to our clinic by Counselor Kelley for gentle deprogramming. > 3) The suggestion that Hermione should be with Draco is cause for > immediate loading into one of our canons (yes, canons) and being > launched over to the SS Leather Trousers. > 4) The SS H/G travels alongside the Good Ship R/H for protective > purposes. Any visitor who is unable to be nice to the H/G is advised > to remain on the port side of the ship away from temptation to taunt. > Anyone taunting the crew of the H/G will find themselves burping slugs > for several hours. > 5) Watch out for the Canary Creams. Too many rules/regulations! I'll just stay aboard the low-key, Freedom of Speech is always tolerated Cruiseliner H/H -- thanks. :--) > And, as much as it's been argued here, I still don't think she "chose > sides" during that fight by spending time with Harry, as it seems to > me she spent time with Ron too, but that's another argument). When? When did she spend this time with Ron? From what we see in GoF, she ate all her meals with Harry, she walked to classes with Harry, she sat in classes with Harry (or occasionally between the two of them early on in the fight), they studied in the library together, they went to Hogsmeade together .... in short, I see very little opportunity for any Ron time. > Anyway, more to the point, I was wondering if people think Viktor was > a > literary device to bring out the tension between Ron and Hermione, or > if he will be important in later books. Neither. I think he was a literary device -- but not for the purpose of showing romantic tension between R & H. I think it was a means of showing that Herm can "clean up good," have a real date, has the maturity & poise to get involved in a romance, etc. It might be a means of showing *Ron's* feelings for Hermione -- but it didn't show Hermione has any feelings for Ron (did you know that I think she likes Harry, Kathy? ). > Hero Gets The Girl. Need I say more? Let's see this HGTG cliche is *bad* in the R/H world, but the sappy OBHWF cliche is perfectly fine? :--) > Most of the "Calm" relationships I have seen personally seem to be > that way mostly because one or both of the partners aren't standing up > for what they really want. (Before you start the flame-throwers, I > hasten to add that this is merely my experience and I am fully aware > that not all "Calm" relationships are this way. I am merely try to > explain why I prefer the "Volatile".) Good thing you added that parenthetical disclaimer ... or I'd have had to throw some flames your way. :--) My husband & I both have strong personalities, but we choose to resolve our differences in a calm cooperative manner. This does not mean one or both of us is meek & mealy-mouthed & not standing up for ourselves. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 04:53:04 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:53:04 -0600 Subject: HP Artist in San Antonio References: <3A773B87.C131632F@texas.net> Message-ID: <3A779A30.28A32700@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11301 Hi -- Amanda Lewanski wrote: > This is for those of you who live in the San Antonio area (sorry if > it's > a repost, I wanted to get this up and so I haven't gone through all > the > email yet). > > I just got a postcard inviting me to a show at the Warner Brothers > store, with special guest Fred Bode, "Artist and Chief Character > Designer for Harry Potter (TM)." I of course RSVPd immediately, and > the > guy told me this artist was handpicked by JKR. It's a promo deal; > they're selling stuff and this guy will sign it. I mentioned that > question & answer would be nice, but he wasn't sure Fred Bode would do > > that. But I'll try to ask him about the scar alignment anyway. Please also ask him: 1. Why Hermione has blonde or dishwater blonde or at best "light brown" hair & blue eyes (should be brown? 2. Why Harry looks stoned in some of the renditions? Especially the calendar art -- January in particular. His eyes are half-closed & his teeth look really, really weird. 3. Why did they give Ron a bowl-haircut? Poor guy. I think he's probably more attractive than that. Sorry I can't be there myself! Ya'll have fun though & report back immediately -- Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 05:34:18 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:34:18 -0000 Subject: Ron/Sirius parallels In-Reply-To: <3A763344.20FCC307@swbell.net> Message-ID: <95884q+hpe1@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11302 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > Not sure where I fit as I like both Ron and Sirius (to different degrees & for different reasons) but ... > I have to ask, after reading your post - is one of those degrees "not much at all"? ;) > Someone posted a nice analysis of how PTSD could have been the driving force behind Sirius' persona in PoA (Monika maybe?). Anyway .... I'm not so sure that Sirius really does have > a hair-trigger temper. He's portrayed that way in fanfic land quite often (including mine & Carole's ASA), but I think he is considerably different in GoF than in PoA. To be sure, > he's still very protective of Harry and impulsive (flying north at the first hint of trouble), but you don't really see the same violent, temper-flaring actions from Sirius in GoF. I think though that this leaves out his personality during his teen years, when the comparison can best be made. Then he *was* rather rash and impulsive, and easily angered. If not, his decision to send Snape off to face a full-on werewolf was far more cold and cruel, and I don't see evidence of that tendency in him in any of the books so far. I believe Sirius was still quite young when he was sent to Azkaban. I think there he didn't have the chance to continue growing and maturing much as most of us do in our twenties and into our thirties. He was busy just trying to survive there. The basic personality traits he had as a teenager hadn't had a chance to evolve and be softened and sharpened in the places they needed to be. In PoA he was in attack/revenge/protection mode, which was quite anger-oriented, but by the time he gets much screen-time in GoF it has been several months since the events of PoA and he's been out of range of much danger from those searching for him. He's had a lot of time with himself away from the positive emotion-sucking Dementors. He's getting the chance to catch up on a lot of reflection and self- examination. > He's much more the stable, wise, self-sacrificing, protective godfather. I agree he's wise and self-sacrificing, and definitely he's protective, but as for stable, to be fair, in GoF he's not physically present very much. He isn't faced bodily with those who is a threat to himself or Harry, so flying off the handle at them really isn't an option for him. > So .... all in all, I'm not so sure we can definitely ascribe a hot temper to Sirius. You have to take into account the fact that his first instinct, as a kid in the MWPP days, as a young adult when James and Lily died, and in the events of PoA, was to seek vengeance. That indicates to me a temper. If as a grown man he's getting it under control, that just indicates to me that Ron will get the chance to do the same, and hopefully under much more normal circumstances, and more quickly. > > Yes, but the same parallel can be made between Hermione and Sirius. I agree, she is very loyal, and she is readily willing to make sacrifices for her friends. I'm one of the few who paralleled Hermione to Sirius back when we were trying to compare the Trio to the > Marauders. Most people paired her up with Lupin because of intellect, although I maintain that since McGonagall said James & Sirius were the brightest students of their year, Lupin > must be slightly less intellectual (if relying on grades alone anyway). But there's a difference between bright and intellectual. From my observation Remus is a man of thought, Sirius a man of action, regardless of their relative IQs or grades. That's not to say Sirius isn't intellectual and Remus doesn't take action, but their general tendencies seem to run that way. Plus Remus missed a couple of days of classes every month due to err.... non-feminine pms :), which was bound to affect his grades. Especially if any of the teachers were like Snape, or even McGonagall. >So .... I think Hermione & Sirius are more alike -- bright, fiercely >loyal & steadfast, etc. > Hermione is loyal in what I deem a more traditional way than Ron. She behaved poorly in the PoA Crookshanks fight incident, but she was under alot of stress. And, her actions that > precipitated that fight were motivated by loyalty/friendship/concern for Harry's welfare. I assume you're meaning the firebolt fight and not the Scabbers fight in that last sentence? As far as I can tell her actions that precipitated the Scabbers fight were carelessness, a lack of responsibility for her pet and a disregard for the feelings of her friend. She wasn't stressed at the beginning of the term, and that's when she started those habits with Crookshanks. She behaved badly, and Ron was angry, but he forgave her, then she apologized and they got past it, so I did too. I believed her apology was sincere and heartfelt, and that she really does care deeply for her friends. I believe the same about Ron. I view Ron's inability to see (or believe when he was presumably specifically told by > Hermione) that Harry didn't enter himself into the Tournament as a breach of friendship & loyalty. I think Ron must have been told this by Hermione, since she did initially tell > Harry that Ron was jealous. So, I'm guessing she likewise spelled out Harry's position to Ron. I agree that Ron behaved badly in this situation. His jealousy and insecurity got in the way of his friendship at a very hard time for Harry. He was childish and stupid, but he clearly showed that he was still worried about his friend, and that he still cared. And the moment Harry was shown to be in danger Ron was right back by his side ready to do whatever he could to help. He showed less disloyalty to Harry than Remus and Sirius did to each other by both believing the other had betrayed James and Lily, and they got past it as well. I think it's natural for friends to fight, and it's better to get hard feelings out in the open than to let them fester (and I believe this from the perspective of someone who tends to avoid confrontation instead, and usually pays for it with sleeplessness, tenseness, and once even hives). I think all of their individual friendships have benefitted from the various fights they've had over the years - they have been able to grow past them. > I don't dispute that Ron is a loyal friend to both Harry and Hermione. But, I don't think he's *as* loyal (in my traditional interpretation of loyalty) as Hermione is. I think > loyalty is one of her principle strengths. I agree that she is loyal, but I think they are both very loyal, and probably equally as loyal in different ways. She risks breaking rules and even being expelled - the two things that terrify her most - and Ron risks his life, both to help and protect their friends. But if I had to boil it down to one thing that makes me think Ron and Sirius are a lot alike, it would be the statement Sirius made in the Shreiking Shack. It seemed to me to be the most character-defining of his statements about himself and about the way he sees other people: "Then you should have died, as we would have done for you." He even includes Remus and James in the statement without even thinking about it, just like Ron included Hermione when he said that Sirius would have to kill "us" too if he was going to kill Harry. Both not only are reflexively willing to put their lives on the line for their friends, they also automatically believe that their friends would do the same. I don't think it was by chance that Ron made that statement in the same scene where Sirius made his. Kimberly, who really ought to be in bed. From dherreid at colortechnology.com Wed Jan 31 05:58:32 2001 From: dherreid at colortechnology.com (dherreid at colortechnology.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:58:32 -0000 Subject: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <9582il+6uih@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9589i8+ispa@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11303 ...Dumbledore knew that the mauraders were animagii. > > He can't have done. He would have realised that Black was entering > Hogwarts as a dog and told the dementors and staff. > > Dai But, didn't he pretty strongly imply that Sirius had only just told him, when he [Dumbledore] was talking to Harry at the end of book 3 (I think)? --Amanda Hmmm, okay, maybe I went a little beyond what I meant to say (after all, I did say that that was what I believed at that moment) - but it still doesn't change my mind about the central point; that it was Dumbledore's plan to flush out Voldemorte's spy. dherreid From purdymango1 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 06:03:38 2001 From: purdymango1 at yahoo.com (Teek) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:03:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Is Draco Redeemable? + Draco/Snape relationship In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010131060338.2693.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11304 --- Sister Mary Lunatic wrote: > How's Draco going to feel about Voldemort if someone HE cares about > gets zapped by Lord V? What if Lucius starts getting grandiose > ideas and Voldemort squashes him? (Don't really see that > happening.) What if Crabbe's or Goyle's father were to cross > Voldemort and get eliminated? I think that if anyone who Draco "cares about" was to be hurt by Voldemort, it would be Snape. (see below) Voldemort does not generally forgive those who abandon him, and any death eater who has been exposed as Dumbledore's "valuable spy" would be, in my opinion, first on Voldemort's list of "people to kill off most unpleasantly." He seems very concerned about the people who abandoned him, but has been letting Snape get away with turning away willfully, unless I'm missing a detail that shows Voldemort doesn't know Snape's gone traitor. It's another of Voldemort's blind spots that he hasn't killed Snape already. (Of course, from a literary point of view, Snape can't die, he's a crucial character.) I think that later in the books, though, Snape will be either killed or made to suffer greatly. I think Harry is becoming aware of Snape's buried morality, despite his outer hatred of Harry... I would like to see a future scene in which Harry has to risk his neck for a teacher who he hates. A question that came to mind: What does Snape think of Draco? He obviously knows his father, and probably thinks he's a git. But a very powerful git. Maybe Voldemort doesn't know that Snape is a traitor, but Lucius (or some other death eater) does, and is keeping it as black mail. It would explain some of the favoritism that Snape shows Draco. Does anyone think that Snape's blatent unfairness is just residual Potter-Hatred, and a bias toward Slytherin House? I think Snape has some respect for Draco as a person, particularly since, as Draco's house-head, he surely knows him better/more favorably than Harry. I am certain that Draco is intelligent, and a talented wizard, if nothing else, which Snape values. If Snape has truly turned against the death eaters, wouldn't he have some bias against the children of parents who he felt were truely EVIL, instead of the children of his teenage antagonist? I think the story of how Snape became a death eater, and how he changed his mind needs to be told. (Thank goodness there's a whole nother three books to tell us.) - Teek ---- "...looking forward to a real breakfast later, [Harry] ate his grapefruit without complaint. "Is this IT?" he said grumpily to Aunt Petunia. Aunt Petunia gave him a severe look, and then nodded pointedly at Dudley, who had already finished his own grapefruit quarter, and was eyeing Harry's with a very sour look in his piggy little eyes."- GoF, Chapter 3. ... anyone else notice this? {{{Flints}}} __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 31 06:04:18 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:04:18 -0000 Subject: Versifying Ford Anglia (was Ode to Susan McGee) In-Reply-To: <957nuj+u556@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9589t2+3rtj@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11305 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., msmacgoo at o... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > > Joywitch wrote: > > > > > Am I the only one frightened by the fact that Neil has started > > > writing poetry? > > > > LOL! I'm thrilled. Let's all start breaking the rules > systematically > > so he'll write some more. > > > > Neil, how about a filk? No one's written a paean to enchanted cars > > yet. > > > > Amy Z > > I'm *frighted* by the threat to go for the wand! What happens then > Neil? Do you get stuck in top gear and run amok? should we run, duck > and cover? > > storm > > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled." > > --HP and the Philosopher's Stone > > ------------------------------------------------------ Killed! or worse! Expelled from the list! No, no! Anything but that.. Neil that was hilarious..I have forwarded it to all of my friends who are laughing hysterically..thanks a lot Susan From Schlobin at aol.com Wed Jan 31 06:11:30 2001 From: Schlobin at aol.com (Schlobin at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:11:30 -0000 Subject: Is Hermione bossy or is this sexism? In-Reply-To: <3A77913E.7557D133@swbell.net> Message-ID: <958aai+88hd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11306 Hmmmm..yes obviously, in book one, hermione is trying to order everyone around, deciding on things, yes, bossy (from the female cow)...... But later on..do adolescent females 14 plus get typed as "bossy" when they are really just being assertive and clear? They're supposed to turn into sweet whimpering willows..oh, Viktor, you are SO wonderful, so when they are clear and assertive they are called "bossy"? Shrew/Shrewd..etc. Susan From hedwigthecat at aol.com Wed Jan 31 06:13:35 2001 From: hedwigthecat at aol.com (hedwigthecat at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 01:13:35 EST Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: HP Artist in San Antonio Message-ID: <9e.f70bb5d.27a9070f@aol.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11307 In a message dated 1/30/2001 9:18:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, pennylin at swbell.net writes: << 1. Why Hermione has blonde or dishwater blonde or at best "light brown" hair & blue eyes (should be brown?>> JKR approved it. <<2. Why Harry looks stoned in some of the renditions? Especially the calendar art -- January in particular. His eyes are half-closed & his teeth look really, really weird.>> See above. :) <<3. Why did they give Ron a bowl-haircut? Poor guy. I think he's probably more attractive than that. >> JKR approved it. ~Hedwig~ "Meow. Hoo. Meow. Hoo." From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Jan 31 06:52:27 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:52:27 +1100 Subject: British -> American "Translation": my perspective References: <94hn2h+mp7s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <033001c08b52$5fdd6d60$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 11308 Here in Australia we have two usages for many of these points. Generally the older generation is more British, but American culture is rapidly flooding the population, getting especially the young who watch American TV shows, cartoons and movies. This age effect is evident even between me and my younger brother (I'm 18 and he's 13). Everyone please be aware that below is just my experience with local grammar. I'm not trying to say anyone else is wrong. Simon. > Period after abbreviations no period period > such as Mr and Mrs The word "period" is NEVER used for the '.', it's always called "full stop", or in Internet addresses, "dot". For periods after abbreviations such as Mr and Mrs, I lean towards no full stop. For eg., etc. and ie. I would use a full stop. > Quotation marks (first level) single quote double quote I can read either style and not mind, but I tend towards double quotes. When learning to program (note, not programme) it was required that you quote exact strings, and this led me not to put punctuation inside. It still looks wrong to me to say "Hello Simon," rather than "Hello Simon.". That's another difference you didn't include -- dialogue, catalogue, programme. I remember the command on an Apple II to get a catalogue of a disk's contents was CATALOG, and the command to change colours was COLOR=nn. These really annoyed me when I was 7 years old and learning to program in BASIC. > Use of commas more commas fewer commas I'm a dreadful commaholic. More, more, more! > Capitalization after ellipsis capitalised not capitalized > in quotations This really depends on whether it's a new sentence or not... I think non-capitalisation is more common. (Ha! I avoided the issue by using an always-capitalised word.) > Spelling: -ise vs. -ize -ise -ize -ise > Spelling: -our vs. -or (e.g., colour) -our -or -our > Spelling: defence vs. defense defence defense Defence looks more natural, although they are allmost equal. > Spelling: the day before Hallowe'en Halloween > All Saints Day I only ever see the word in an American context, so no apostrophe. We don't celebrate Halloween or Guy Fawkes Day or any of that. > Past participle of "to get" [had] got [had] gotten > (Note: Webster's 9th Collegiate > Dictionary [American] lists both > got and gotten without preference.) Gotten is common, but not correct. > Collective nouns, singular vs. plural plural singular > (Another member has noted that the > plural usage is associated with > British sports broadcasts, and that > collectives may be used as singular > in other venues.) Say "Slitherin are on the offensive", not "The Slitherins are on the offensive". > OT Digression #1: > One thing that is noticeable on certain BBC programs that are > rebroadcast over here is the omission of the article adjective > in phrases such as "at table" and "to hospital." Americans would > say "at the table" and "to the hospital." The BBC usage sounds > posh and pedantic to my ears, so I'd like to ask any Brits or > Aussies who've read down this far: are "at table" etc. in > everyday use? Does this usage vary by dialect area? > I haven't seen any examples in the HP books, so if anyone sees > one please let me know and I'll add it to the list, which may > become part of the International Editions FAQ. "He is at table" sounds silly and a little stuck-up. "Go to hospital" is normal usage. > OT Digression #2: > One of the stranger things that I have done all my life is > comparing the translations of John 3:16 in different languages > when I'm in a hotel room that has a Gideon Bible. I remember > that there were several pairs that were remarkably similar, > but which were given as separate languages (e.g., > Danish/Norwegian and Dutch/Afrikaans, as I remember). But > there was only *one* English language. I guess that being part > of this group has turned me into an Anglophile, because for > some reason, I really like the fact that British and American > (and Canadian, and Australian, and New Zealand...) English > are considered to be the same language. > [Did I mention that this was a digression?] I'm interested in languages too, and I've compared them in multi-language instruction manuals for computer parts rather than the bible. LOL > Just my 2d (0.8333 new pence) 2d? Oh you mean from denarii, sesterces and librae? Simon. From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Jan 31 07:23:39 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:23:39 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Grammar question References: <94h8m9+lrum@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <037201c08b56$bb7c55b0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 11309 > Sheep isn't quite the same as the other examples you give, because > the word is exactly the same in singular and plural usage (whereas > you could have several councils or assemblies). Would you say "The > sheep was grazing in the field" in Am English if there were several > sheep? Sheep isn't a collective noun. It's a standard common noun, except that, as you say, the singular and plural are the same. Your example is correct for one sheep but wrong for multiple sheep. Simon. From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 31 08:01:00 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:01:00 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Sirius' family Message-ID: <01c08b5b$f3307d60$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11310 >And that's my question: do we know anything about SB's family? There is some >information on Peter's mother, Remus' parents but that's all as I think. To my best knowledge no relative is ever mentioned. We also know nothing about Snape's family. I'd laugh my head off if these two tall, thin, black-haired men turned out to be relatives... > >Katarzyna > Monika Z. >PS Severus is such a beautiful name. I wonder why it hasn't been very popular so far. I hope it changes soon? ;-))) I admire your good taste, Katarzyna :-). If I was a witch I'd call my son Severus without hesitation. As a matter of fact, if I was a witch, I'd be only too happy to be able to call my boy Severus Snape Jr. But his father would have to get used to taking baths first ;-))) >* * * >PPS Chyba tylko my dwie, sadzac po adresach, choc to dosc kiepskie kryterium... W kazdym razie nikt inny sie nie przyznaje. Przyznam sie, ze troche sie dziwie, ze im moj "odp." przeszkadza. Ale nic, bede zmieniac recznie. Ty nie masz takiego problemu? Monika From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 31 07:47:13 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:47:13 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] (OT) ADMIN: odp? Message-ID: <01c08b5a$0669fa20$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11311 >> I've been seeing that abbreviation a lot lately and don't know what it >> means. Sorry for the one-line post. > >My guess is, since it only appears on Monika Z's posts, and since she has a >.pl ending (Poland) to her email, it's the Polish equivalent of "Re". >Monika, is there any way you could set it to say "Re"? It's making the "sort >by title" option a bit funny :) > >--John I plead guilty. "Odp" is Polish abbreviation of "answer" (an equivalent of Re is dot.) The computer wizard I called for help says that as I have Polish version of Windows there's no way to set it to say Re. I'll try to remember to change it manually. Sorry for the trouble. Monika Z. From dherreid at colortechnology.com Wed Jan 31 08:00:18 2001 From: dherreid at colortechnology.com (dherreid at colortechnology.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:00:18 -0000 Subject: Opening the Chamber of Secrets (on Lockhart) In-Reply-To: <00f901c08b27$7e805960$c03770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <958gmi+sm8j@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11312 > IMO, Gilderoy Lockhart is one of the most singularly unpleasant characters JKR has written and, perhaps, one of the reasons this book comes up a little short of the others. He is so completely self-obsessed, that it becomes stifling, in spite of the humour. Of course, he is a caricature, but he represents a kind of shallow, delusional vanity that is all too common in our convenience-driven world. > > Neil Neil - well written! I agree - however... I found Gilderoy Lockhart to be one of the elements that carried what was, IMO, the weakest of JKR's story lines. Lockhart's comedy, teaching the Peskipiksi Pesternomi spell, the duelling class, is well suited to show us his ruthless ability with memory charms and his desperation. I will say that aspects of CofS were inspired in their conception. I was especially impressed with howlers, and Tom Riddle and his diary were endlessly clever. But, in the end, CofS seemed to lean too heavily on incongruous elements (if there can even be incongruous elements in the wizarding world); an Egyptian tomb-like hall beneath Hogwarts, the sword pulled from the sorting hat... GL emphasizes the point, running through all the books, that you can't predict what anyone can or will do, no one really knows what anyone else is capable of - which further illustrates that it is our choices, not our abilities, that make us who we are. dherreid From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 31 08:28:36 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:28:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Liking Sirius (was: Pettigrew vs. Sirius) Message-ID: <01c08b5f$ce2d4080$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11313 >Well - I am new here and have enjoyed reading and learning from the posts >but I have to jump in here... I confess to being bewildered by anyone saying >they do NOT like Sirius! I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. >How can anyone fail to feel for the plight of >this man who not only lost his best friends but was betrayed by another he >felt was a friend and caused their death and his living death No offence meant, but the top of my *private* list of people I am most sorry for is: 1. Neville Longbottom 2. Harry Potter 3. Cedric Diggory's parents On that list, Sirius Black is after Hagrid. Monika Z. From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 31 09:18:11 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:18:11 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Staffroom scene - another reason for liking Snape Message-ID: <01c08b66$bb57ea80$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11314 >> I love the scene in the staffroom when all the other teachers gang up >> on Lockhart > >This reminds me, I've been wanting to point this scene out for another >reason. I was impressed with >the way that they all picked up Snape's lead like a well-rehearsed act. > Snape is "in" >with the other teachers; they seem a fraternity to me. > >--Amanda >Font of Knowledge, Fan of Snape I could't agree more. That's one of my favourite scenes. And I think it also shows that McGonagall and Snape are on better terms than it seems (remember all the nice things they told each other about quidditch, Snape's attempts to keep Harry from practice etc). I also like that scene in GoF when Snape backs McGonagall up against Fudge and helps her explain what happened. Monika Z. (the Snape fan) From zsenya at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 11:38:36 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (Zsenya) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:38:36 -0500 Subject: Shipping Through the Cracks - Daily Affirmations Message-ID: <002b01c08b7a$5a84d6a0$8da8c4ce@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 11315 Kathy - can we incorporate the good ship R/H rules onto SugarQuill right now? (I'm cc-ing you on this in case I fail in posting it to the list - I'm still having problems) Here are our Daily Affirmations at sugarquill.com. There are a few more that I need to add. It's all in good fun...Our mission statement can be found at http://www.sugarquill.com/spew.html It's a bit elitist I know, but these affirmations are what started the whole site for Arabella and myself. And it's not entirely true anymore, we try to be nice to everyone. Also, Rina - love the drinks - am very happy that the Ron/Hermione ones involve a lot of Vodka (my personal favorite...) - may we incorporate those into our site somehow as well? :)Zsenya SugarQuill.com's Daily Affirmations... 1.. Harry and Hermione is a ridiculous IMPOSSIBILITY. Harry is allowed to date Cho, but will end up with Ginny. 2.. The Weasley family RULES (especially Ron, whom it will be okay to lust after outward in the seventh year- for us older gals, I mean) 3.. Hermione is NOT whiny. She is a bit bossy, but she is so smart that she deserves to be 4.. She and Ron also do not fight to the point of tears EVERY DAY. Sometimes, they are nice. 5.. Ginny doesn't spend all her waking time giggling. 6.. Draco and Hermione - WHAT is with that? 7.. NO ONE is allowed to say that Ron will turn bad (Well okay, you can say it - freedom of speech and all that. But we'll kick you out.) 8.. Sirius looks like Colin Firth (thinner Colin, but with Darcy hair) and Lupin looks like...??? Suggestions welcome. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From monika at darwin.inka.de Wed Jan 31 11:48:00 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (monika at darwin.inka.de) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:48:00 -0000 Subject: Who should raise Harry (was Sudden Thought re: the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <957gba+etqc@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <958u1g+p9ea@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11316 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., sashibuya at h... wrote: > Several questions to ponder while waiting for book five, then. :) > Did Dumbledore know about the switch from Sirius to Pettigrew? If > so, then there would be no need to warn Hagrid about Sirius. > It also sounds as if Hagrid wasn't given much in the way of > instruction from Dumbledore other than to get there and find Harry. > If McGonagall did have any idea about the whole Fidelius charm > thing, wouldn't she say something when Hagrid mentioned Sirius > (about the motorcycle)? There would probably be no reason for not > telling Hagrid then. I think the Fidelius Charm is something that is done as secretely as you can. *Very* few people seem to know about it. Dumbledore knew it because he proposed to be the Potter's Secret-Keeper himself. I think you also have to register the charm with the ministry (like the animagus transformation). McGonagall almost certainly didn't know about it. And Dumbledore didn't know about the switch, nor did the ministry. This was Sirius' "clever" idea he paid so hard for. If Dumbledore had known about the switch, he wouldn't have allowed Crouch to send Sirius to Azkaban without a trial, or at least he would have tried to get him out, but he did *nothing* of the sort. Even Lupin didn't know about the switch, since Sirius suspected him to be Voldemort's spy. Maybe Dumbledore didn't warn Hagrid about Sirius because he didn't think he would meet him at the Potter's house. If you have just murdered your best friends, you won't usually stay put and wait until the police (or the hit wizards) get you. Monika From alw at wilsonllp.com Wed Jan 31 13:10:30 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:10:30 -0500 Subject: Harold Bloom on HP References: <957fsd+o27j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <005801c08b87$2fc7e850$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 11317 I'd be curious as to what Mr. Bloom thinks children should be reading. The classics? The classics were required reading in all of my English classes in school...and to be honest, there are some that I have no urge to ever read again, even though I would probably get much more out of them now and actually enjoy them. As a teen-ager, the last thing I wanted to read was The Iliad - and unfortunantly, I was "required" to read it three times throughout my educational years. I'm someone who has always enjoyed reading - I'd get my flashlight out at night and hide under the covers reading until all hours of the night. I also love history and mythology - I always have - and I didn't enjoy reading Homer. Nor did I enjoy Faulkner or some of the others...it just wasn't what I was interested in reading at the time. So HP isn't a literary masterpiece (I personally find the books ingenious), kids are reading. So they get a little older and start reading Steven King...so what...they're reading. Maybe once they've finished all JKR's books and all of Steven Kings books, they'll pick up something else. Just my two cents... Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alw at wilsonllp.com Wed Jan 31 13:31:16 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:31:16 -0500 Subject: Chapter 28 Summary: The Madness of Mr. Crouch References: <9530hl+g7ts@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <00a901c08b8a$166e77e0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 11318 QUESTIONS: Is the eagle owl Harry sees from the owlery important? I don't think I saw this mentioned anywhere...if it was, sorry for restating...doesn't Draco have an eagle owl? That thought popped into my head last night as I was trying to fall asleep. I seem to remember something in PS/SS about Malfoy having an eagle owl...I think it was in one of the owl delivery/breakfast scenes (maybe the first one?). Of course, I'm not sure what Draco's owl was doing roaming around that night? Maybe delivering a message to Rita Skeeter? Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 31 14:02:43 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:02:43 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Shipping Through the Cracks - Daily Affirmations Message-ID: <006b01c08b8e$849443e0$a751a7ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11319 Zsenya wrote: <> I'm a vodka person myself. Sure, feel free to use them or any other R/H drinks I post. : ) Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pbnesbit at msn.com Wed Jan 31 14:06:10 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:06:10 -0000 Subject: Snape & scenes outside Harry's PoV (was Staffroom scene) In-Reply-To: <9586dt+qojv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95964i+d5te@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11320 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., sashibuya at h... wrote: > > Neil's comments snipped > > > > Yes, I know what you mean. That's what I was getting at when I > called it a > > "very revealing interaction" and I agree totally on the different > perception > > of Snape. Our view of Snape is essentially that of a boy viewing an > > unpopular, embittered teacher who tends to pick on him for kicks - > it's > > bound to be a somewhat negative portrayal. That's not to say Snape > is a fun > > guy to be around; just that he probably has facets we haven't > seen. Look at > > Snape's passionate introduction to the subject of Potions (PS) and > compare > > that to Lockhart's inept blundering (CoS): who would you rather > have as a > > teacher? > > > > You know, here's another question I've been wanting to ask but never > found the right thread for. Does Snape really like being a teacher? > Or does he not and that's one of the reasons he's so embittered (Why > is Snape so bitter anyway, if one doesn't buy the Lily theory? ) He > seems to enjoy potions, but hate the students. Certainly, even if one > enjoys yelling at people, it can't be much fun to teach without > liking the kids much, or thinking that one is actually accomplishing > much. But if he dislikes the actual teaching process so much, why > doesn't he find another job (I'm assuming that it wouldn't be hard > for someone of his caliber)? Former Death Eater status doesn't seem > to have hurt Malfoy and co. > > > > Charmian I, for one, would much rather have Severus as a teacher than that "brainless git" (as I believe Ron calls him)! I always responded better to teachers who were passionate about their subject--even if I wasn't. That kind of passion inspires me (& is probably one reason I'm passionate about *my* subject in *my* job. I think Severus enjoys teaching. He seems to be "ground down" by the succession of students who aren't as interested in potions as he is. In his opening (impassioned) speech, he even mentions this: "I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death--if you aren't as big a bunch of dunderheads as I usually have to teach." As for why he is bitter and hates students, it may be this: people who are passionate about a subject are disappointed when others aren't. I have to say also that I don't think he hates the students. He seems to be the type who wants students to fear him. Just my 2 galleons, Peace & Plenty, Parker From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 31 14:08:41 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:08:41 -0000 Subject: HP Artist in San Antonio In-Reply-To: <3A779A30.28A32700@swbell.net> Message-ID: <959699+q0b5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11321 > Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > This is for those of you who live in the San Antonio area (sorry if > > it's > > a repost, I wanted to get this up and so I haven't gone through all > > the > > email yet). > > > > I just got a postcard inviting me to a show at the Warner Brothers > > store, with special guest Fred Bode, "Artist and Chief Character > > Designer for Harry Potter (TM)." I of course RSVPd immediately, and > > the > > guy told me this artist was handpicked by JKR. It's a promo deal; > > they're selling stuff and this guy will sign it. I mentioned that > > question & answer would be nice, but he wasn't sure Fred Bode would do > > > > that. But I'll try to ask him about the scar alignment anyway. > After Penny's questions, which are much more important, Cassandra & I would really like you to ask him "Why is there no Draco Malfoy artwork ANYWHERE AT ALL?" Ok, so we're obsessed. From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 31 14:07:33 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:07:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Shippy drinks Message-ID: <007701c08b8f$2f58b220$a751a7ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11322 Kathy wrote: <> Head Bartender - now that's a title to be proud of. LOL This will be fun! And I'm very curious to see how you like the drinks. I haven't actually tried them, because I'm on medication that prohibits alcohol, so I ended up making several calls to friends last night. "Hey, Krissy! Can you try vodka and lemonade? How's that taste? How about this vodka and schnapps? C'mon, you know you want to." LOL They liked it a lot, now I just have to wait until *I can try them and like them a lot. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 14:11:03 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:11:03 -0600 Subject: Daily Affirmations of the Good Ship R/H References: <002b01c08b7a$5a84d6a0$8da8c4ce@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <3A781CF7.BC6F2548@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11323 Hi -- Zsenya wrote: > 1. Harry and Hermione is a ridiculous IMPOSSIBILITY. Harry is allowed > to date Cho, but will end up with Ginny. "Allowed"? I thought JKR was writing the books. :--) > 5. Ginny doesn't spend all her waking time giggling. How do you know? > 7.. NO ONE is allowed to say that Ron will turn bad (Well okay, you > can say it - freedom of speech and all that. But we'll kick you out.) Can I say Ron *could* betray Harry (even unwittingly)? There's a difference between speculating about possibilities and making firm predictions. I know I've never said "Ron will turn evil." I've only speculated that there is the potential for him to betray Harry -- either unwittingly (falling into a Voldemort trap -- seduced by riches, etc.) or because he was motivated by a fleeting emotion at the exact wrong time (jealousy over Hermione perhaps). My perception is that the R/H camp seems quite bent on being sure Ron receives *no* criticism of any kind (while liberally dishing it out to the other characters I might add). Is this zero-tolerance policy sanctioned by the leadership of the Good Ship R/H? Penny Captain of the Cruiseliner H/H (where we trust our members and their freedom of thought & so have no need for such things as Ship Rules or Daily Affirmations .... ) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From njenzyme at wildmail.com Wed Jan 31 14:14:14 2001 From: njenzyme at wildmail.com (Dottie Bunch) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:14:14 -0500 Subject: Snape and Hygiene Message-ID: <6C6BBCE8C77F4D115AF40005B83AB900@njenzyme.wildmail.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11324 >I admire your good taste, Katarzyna :-). If I was a witch I'd call my son >Severus without hesitation. As a matter of fact, if I was a witch, I'd be >only too happy to be able to call my boy Severus Snape Jr. But his father >would have to get used to taking baths first ;-))) > Monika A quick word in Snape's favor - Just because the guy's hair is 'greasy', in Harry's point of view, doesn't mean that the man never takes a bath. I know someone who washes their hair daily and it's still limp and leaning towards oily. I can't imagine that Sev would keep his position for long if he smelled worse than his potions. Like a lot of people, he's on life long quest to find the perfect shampoo. And I agree - Severus is a terrific name. Dottie Care2 make the world greener! http://www.care2.com - Get your Free e-mail account that helps save Wildlife! From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 14:16:27 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:16:27 -0600 Subject: HP Artist in San Antonio References: <9e.f70bb5d.27a9070f@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A781E3B.BA665CA8@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11325 Hi -- hedwigthecat at aol.com wrote: > << 1. Why Hermione has blonde or dishwater blonde or at best "light > brown" hair & blue eyes (should be brown?>> > > JKR approved it. > > <<2. Why Harry looks stoned in some of the renditions? Especially > the > calendar art -- January in particular. His eyes are half-closed & his > > teeth look really, really weird.>> > > See above. :) Did she really approve each individual piece of art? Or, was it more likely that she approved the artist based on his early sketches & concepts, and he was given free rein by WB? I have a hard time believing she has time in her schedule to approve each individual rendition of Harry and co. that gets developed. In general, I do like the WB renditions of Harry, although the January cover-art for the wall calender is *terribly unflattering* (IMO). I'm still not sure JKR had the time or opportunity to focus on details like whether he'd got Hermione's eye color correctly. I think it sounds more likely that she approved the *artist* rather than the individual drawings or figurines. I'd also be interested in knowing if the artist has read the books -- another question for Amanda & her group. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 14:21:10 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:21:10 -0600 Subject: Is Hermione bossy or is this sexism? References: <958aai+88hd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A781F56.D345831B@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11326 Hi -- Schlobin at aol.com wrote: > Hmmmm..yes obviously, in book one, hermione is trying to order > everyone around, deciding on things, yes, bossy (from the female > cow)...... > > But later on..do adolescent females 14 plus get typed as "bossy" > when they are really just being assertive and clear? Yay Susan! See, it was just a matter of time before we agreed on something. I think Hermione is a self-assured successful female by GoF. She's not perfect, and she still has issues. But, I don't think she's still "bossy." Nor do I think she will "always" be fundamentally a bossy person. She's successful and self-confident, and she needn't "tone it down" IMO. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 31 14:36:42 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:36:42 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] H/H Roll Call--or, exactly *who* is on this s hip? Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11327 Even though I'm fairly quiet, you can definitely count me in service to the great ship H/H. Meredith ** > H/H shippers, make yourself known. So far, I've counted: ** > ** > Penny ** > Carole ** > Lori ** > Cassie AKA Cassandra Claire ** > John AKA Crazy Ivan AKA Russian Cabin Boy in Celine Dion Drag ** > Scott ** > Heather ** > Heidi ** > ** > I do believe there's more of you out there. ** > ** Umh, well I thought that by now you'd now that I'm on the ** H/H ship especially sense I've said several things ** supporting that ship AND asked ot be the entertainment ** director and what not, I know that some of my post weren't ** out when you wrote this but still, oh well, NOW you know and ** I'm never going anywhere, unless people keep forgetting that ** I'm here for H/H then I'm going to jumping off and joining ** the U-boat No Shipper. ** ~Star~ ** ** ** --------------------------------------------------- ** Get your free web based email from Crosswalk.com: ** http://mail.crosswalk.com ** ** ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ** ---------------------~-~> ** eGroups is now Yahoo! Groups ** Click here for more details ** http://click.egroups.com/1/11231/1/_/_/_/980897092/ ** ------------------------------------------------------------- ** --------_-> ** ** Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more ** information, see our ** website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you ** can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file ** at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt ** ** To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ** HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com ** ** ** From karob_7 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 14:35:44 2001 From: karob_7 at yahoo.com (karob_7 at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:35:44 -0000 Subject: Chapter 28 Summary: The Madness of Mr. Crouch In-Reply-To: <00a901c08b8a$166e77e0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <9597s0+dvus@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11328 I wrote: "Is the eagle owl Harry sees from the owlery important?" Then Amy wrote: "I don't think I saw this mentioned anywhere...if it was, sorry for restating...doesn't Draco have an eagle owl? That thought popped into my head last night as I was trying to fall asleep. I seem to remember something in PS/SS about Malfoy having an eagle owl...I think it was in one of the owl delivery/breakfast scenes (maybe the first one?). Of course, I'm not sure what Draco's owl was doing roaming around that night? Maybe delivering a message to Rita Skeeter?" I've read GoF 3 times, and I didn't notice it until I was doing the chapter summary. Harry sees the owl through the smoke coming from Hagrid's chimney, if I remember correctly, then it flies around the owlery and then out of sight. It could be just, well, scenery. I only asked the question about it because it jumped out at me this time though I hadn't seen it before. And yes, Draco's owl is an eagle owl. Also, in Harry's dream when he zones out in Divination, it starts off with him riding an eagle owl. Karin From vderark at bccs.org Wed Jan 31 14:37:47 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:37:47 -0000 Subject: pronunciation help: Draco Message-ID: <9597vr+7m8t@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11329 I received a feedback to the Lexicon from someone who questioned what I put for Draco's name on the Pronunciation Page of the Lexicon. I used DRAY-ko, which is the way my American mouth says it and the way Jim Dale says it on the tapes. That just sounds right to me. This person suggested that since it's from Latin, it should be pronounced DRAH-ko. Granted, it would be /ah/ in Latin (the word draconis would be pronounced drah-KO-nus), but DRAH-ko just sounds weird to me. Is my American bias showing or what here? Help me out... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which had all sorts of word help pages and links http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From lrcjestes at earthlink.net Wed Jan 31 14:32:38 2001 From: lrcjestes at earthlink.net (Carole Estes) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:32:38 -0500 Subject: Meeting in Providence RI References: <95884q+hpe1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000d01c08b92$aacb2520$7369d63f@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 11330 Hello all New Englanders. A few of us are coordinating a get together in Providence, Rhode Island on Friday February 23, in the evening...thinking of around 6:30ish. Any and all are welcome...email me off list at : lrcjestes at earthlink.net if you're interested. carole From aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org Wed Jan 31 14:54:50 2001 From: aviationoutreachcoord at museumofflight.org (Meredith Wilson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 06:54:50 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Hermione & the Boys Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11331 ** Hmm ... I think it's actually fairly common for lots of 11-12 yr old ** girls to be "bossy," but I would guess most of them outgrow that ** tendency. I think that's the case with Hermione. I definitely concur here. It is true that some people don't outgrow it, but a lot of pre-teen/teen girls have a bossy/know-it-all air about them. ** > This is a major point of divergence between us - we really ** do not read ** > the arguments in PoA the same. Regarding the Firebolt, I feel that ** > Harry and Ron were being equally stubborn. Both prolonged that ** > argument. ** ** Yes, but Harry wanted to make up long before Ron did -- I think maybe ** even before Hagrid said something to them (although I can't ** recall that ** for certain & am too lazy to look it up at the moment - ). The biggest problem here (as I remember it here at work without books nearby) is that we don't see nearly as much into what Ron thinks during all of this. We see/hear Harry talking to Hermione about it, and we see Ron hanging out with other people, but we don't really get to hear much about Ron internally during the fight. Again, pre-teen/teen boys (and even my husband and his friends who are definitely older than 14, but don't act like it a good part of the time ) have a huge sense of 'pride.' Whether they're wrong or not, they just can't bear it to have to admit it. That's why there are so many jokes about men not asking for directions, etc. As a tag-on, please know that I am in no way anti-men. I, in fact, adore men. :) Meredith From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 14:45:49 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:45:49 -0600 Subject: Ron/Sirius parallels References: <95884q+hpe1@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A78251D.4E805797@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11332 Hi -- Kimberly wrote: --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > wrote: > > Not sure where I fit as I like both Ron and Sirius (to different > degrees & for different reasons) but ... > > > I have to ask, after reading your post - is one of those degrees "not > much at all"? ;) What -- just because I think Sirius is more closely paralleled by Hermione, I'm now accused of not liking Ron? I sincerely regarded this post as more of arguing Hermione/Sirius parallels, rather than detracting from Ron as a person. I *do* like Ron! Really! > I think though that this leaves out his personality during his teen > years, when the comparison can best be made. Then he *was* rather > rash and impulsive, and easily angered. If not, his decision to send > Snape off to face a full-on werewolf was far more cold and cruel, and > I don't see evidence of that tendency in him in any of the books so > far. We still don't know the full story on the werewolf prank pulled by Sirius, and so I reserve judgment against Sirius in that matter until the story is more fully fleshed out. I am in no way a Snape fan though, so that colors my perception. I much more readily give the benefit of the doubt to Sirius (and Dumbledore -- who knew the whole story & did not expell Sirius). I distrust Snape, so I'm disinclined to give any credence to his version of events. > In PoA he was in attack/revenge/protection mode, which was quite > anger-oriented, I agree with Monika & Carole that his actions appear to be less motivated by *anger* as they are by PTSD, stress, etc. > > He's much more the stable, wise, self-sacrificing, protective > godfather. > > I agree he's wise and self-sacrificing, and definitely he's > protective, but as for stable, to be fair, in GoF he's not physically > present very much. By stable, I meant he's *there* for Harry -- whether it's in person or by owl-post. > > So .... all in all, I'm not so sure we can definitely ascribe a hot > temper to Sirius. > > You have to take into account the fact that his first instinct, as a > kid in the MWPP days, as a young adult when James and Lily died, and > in the events of PoA, was to seek vengeance. As a teenager in the MWPP days -- we don't know yet *what* motivated him to play that prank. I'm not sure it's fair to say it was vengeance when we really don't know much about it other than it occurred & that Dumbledore knew about it (chose not to take action) and that Snape is still incredibly bitter about it. As a young adult when James & Lily died - he might not have been seeking vengeance per se as much as he hoped to trap Peter, turn him into the authorities & clear his own name. He was outwitted by Peter -- and as suggested by others yesterday, I would wager this was due to his stress level & shock. He did go looking for Peter, but who's to say his intent all along wasn't simply to bind him up & turn him into the authorities so that his own name could be cleared? As for PoA -- I subscribe to the PTSD theory. I'm not sure we're seeing Sirius' true personality there. > I said: I'm one of the few who paralleled Hermione to Sirius back when > we were trying to compare the Trio to the Marauders. Most people > paired her up with Lupin because of intellect, although I maintain > that since McGonagall said James & Sirius were the brightest students > of their year, Lupin must be slightly less intellectual (if relying on > grades alone > anyway). > > Kimberly said: But there's a difference between bright and > intellectual. From my observation Remus is a man of thought, Sirius a > man of action, > regardless of their relative IQs or grades. That's not to say Sirius > isn't intellectual and Remus doesn't take action, but their general > tendencies seem to run that way. Plus Remus missed a couple of days > of classes every month due to err.... non-feminine pms :), which was > bound to affect his grades. Especially if any of the teachers were > like Snape, or even McGonagall. I agree -- that's why I added the qualifier re: if relying on grades alone. But, I don't see Hermione as being strictly the intellectual type. She puts her smarts to good use -- she uses practical application all the time. She does reflexively turn to books, and I honestly can't see Sirius being that type. But, she *also* thinks on her feet & has natural "brightness" -- traits I do ascribe to Sirius. > Hermione is loyal in what I deem a more traditional way than Ron. > She behaved poorly in the PoA Crookshanks fight incident, but she was > under alot of stress. And, her actions that > precipitated that fight > were motivated by loyalty/friendship/concern for Harry's welfare. > > I assume you're meaning the firebolt fight and not the Scabbers fight > in that last sentence? Yes. > As far as I can tell her actions that precipitated the Scabbers fight > were carelessness, a lack of responsibility for her pet and a > disregard for the feelings of her friend. She wasn't stressed at the > beginning of the term, and that's when she started those habits with > Crookshanks. She was definitely over-indulgent with Crookshanks and careless to assume that he could roam freely without menacing Ron's pet. > Kimberly said: I think it's natural for friends to fight, and it's > better to get hard feelings out in the open than to let them fester > (and I believe this from the perspective of someone who tends to > avoid confrontation instead, and usually pays for it with > sleeplessness, tenseness, and once even hives). I think all of their > individual friendships have benefitted from the various fights they've > had over the years - they have been able to grow past them. I couldn't agree more! I had thought it was very weird that Harry and Ron had never had a fight up until GoF. I was merely expressing my feeling that Ron was more initially at fault than Harry (although Harry certainly did his part to prolong the fight). > I agree that she is loyal, but I think they are both very loyal, and > probably equally as loyal in different ways. She risks breaking > rules and even being expelled - the two things that terrify her most - > > and Ron risks his life, both to help and protect their friends. This is very well-worded -- I like it. My main problem with Ron in the fight in GoF is this: I think Hermione immediately saw from the expression on Harry's face that he hadn't entered his name. I can't help wondering *what* Ron was thinking -- it strikes me that he just wasn't all that perceptive. He let his own jealousy swamp his initial perceptions. This much is reasonably understandable in my mind. But, it seems to me that he couldn't then get past his stubborness to accept what Hermione must have told him at least once (that Harry hadn't entered himself in the Tournament & was very upset/frightened). If he'd made some moves toward reconciliation early on, the fight could have ended. Instead, he turned a deaf ear to Hermione and possibly his own instincts. I didn't like this aspect of Ron at all -- it made me very nervous that he could have a similar reaction in a situation when the stakes might be indeed even higher. Just my opinion though! :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 14:55:41 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:55:41 -0600 Subject: Ron/Sirius parallels References: <950alk+6j1b@eGroups.com> <3A763344.20FCC307@swbell.net> <21rd7to4ptruolk417r9eqi2i6kfcvi1l7@4ax.com> Message-ID: <3A78276D.D948EACE@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11333 Hi -- Monika Huebner wrote: > Yes, he is. And the difference in his behavior between PoA and GoF > doesn't make any sense at all if he really had a hair-trigger temper, > or more precisely if it really was a personality trait. It's more > likely a clinical condition. I agree completely. > I don't think coming back to England when Harry told him he was in > trouble was impulsive. He couldn't react differently, even though he > knew that Harry was under Dumbledore's protection. He definitely has a > sense of responsibility, and I think he knew very well that he risked > his life, but I wouldn't call his decision impulsive or rash. Yes, now that you put it like that -- impulsive was a poor word choice on my part. > If he had stayed in his tropical paradise (or wherever he was at that > time) we would perhaps have called him thoughtless. True enough! :--) > Interesting. I have discussed this topic a while ago with a friend off > > list, and we have come to the same conclusion. We found way more > parallels between Sirius and Hermione than between Sirius and Ron. I > would add to your list that they both have a lot of common sense. I > remember that they both said the same thing when Harry began to worry > about Voldemort in GoF: first we will have to get you through the > Triwizard Tournament, and then we can worry about Voldemort. They > looked at the problem in the same analytical way. That's another great support for Hermione/Sirius parallels -- thanks! :--) They're both practical and logical/analytical thinkers. I have alot in my Hermione FAQ that highlights her analytical skills, and it's good that you point out that Sirius appears to have the same strength in GoF. Carole -- add this to your Sirius FAQ. Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From vderark at bccs.org Wed Jan 31 14:59:01 2001 From: vderark at bccs.org (Steve Vander Ark) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:59:01 -0000 Subject: Snape and Hygiene In-Reply-To: <6C6BBCE8C77F4D115AF40005B83AB900@njenzyme.wildmail.com> Message-ID: <95997l+7ui0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11334 > A quick word in Snape's favor - Just because the guy's hair is 'greasy', in Harry's point of view, > doesn't mean that the man never takes a bath. I know someone who washes their hair daily and > it's still limp and leaning towards oily I think this is yet another example of the fact that we read just about everything in the books through the filter of Harry's point of view. Most readers don't notice the bias in the descriptions, but those of us that deconstruct every little nuance and turn of the phrase will do well to keep that in mind. I for one tend to draw some pretty concrete conclusions about things from passing comments in the books, and possibly, just possibly, some of those comments might not be objectively accurate. Possibly, just possibly, these books are written simply to be ripping good stories, that's all. Naw. Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon jam-packed with Binns-approved, solid, verifiable facts http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon From cad2 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 15:05:32 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:05:32 -0000 Subject: Has Harry Seen the Worst Already? In-Reply-To: <3A778D26.54F1E5D2@swbell.net> Message-ID: <9599js+8i3h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11335 Penny Said: > I agree that the Graveyard scene was *horrible,* but I still >wouldn't place a bet on it being the worst thing in a 7-book series >with 3 more books yet to come). I agree. What would be the worst think that Harry could endure? Think of what means the most to him and take that away. I think far worse than watching the V rising scene would be watching, *without* being able to help, Ron/Hermione (Dumbledore/Hagrid) be kidnapped/tortured/killed. Better yet, what if someone close to him, someone he trusts went joined forces with V? On a personal level, I think that would have a far greater effect on Harry than watching V rise. Just my ramblings..... CIndy From bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 31 15:09:38 2001 From: bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr (bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:09:38 -0000 Subject: In praise of Snape Message-ID: <9599ri+qhum@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11336 Well, just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I should like to propose the following : All the characters in HP are mono-dimensional cardboard cut outs with one notable exception, Snape, who is the only multi-facetted character amid all the HP personna. Is he good? Is he bad? Is he nice (though strict) or is he nasty? Does he ultimately work for Harry's good, or for his downfall? Isn't Harry's ultimate quest to measure up to Snape's uncompromising moral standards and (pedantic) exactitude? At the end of the day, either you land up sloppy or you become Snape- like. It's matter of choice. I'm looking forward to future HP books where the Snape ? Harry reconciliation will occur. "I know I've been tough on you kid, but you've proved yourself, and now I can reveal to you some truths that I now know you're strong enough and man enough to deal with ." From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 31 15:14:20 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:14:20 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Draco/Snape relationship Message-ID: <01c08b98$7c82a340$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11337 I'm so glad somebody started this thread! Thanks, Teek! >I think that if anyone who Draco "cares about" was to be hurt by >Voldemort, it would be Snape. I'm not sure Malfoy cares for him. The only thing we know for certain is that Snape favours Draco almost beyond common sense. I guess Draco likes it, but I'm not sure what he thinks of Snape. I have an impression that he finds Snape more "useful" than respect-worthy (you know, something like "Who cares what Snape thinks? He'll back us up no matter what we do!"). >Voldemort does not >generally forgive those who abandon him, and any death eater who has >been exposed as Dumbledore's "valuable spy" would be, in my opinion, >first on Voldemort's list of "people to kill off most unpleasantly." I agree. But some people think that Snape could explain everything to Voldemort, even his Anti-Ouirrel Campaign. Personally I doubt it. I'm not sure Severus can lie convincingly. He certainly cannot control his face too well. >It's another of Voldemort's blind spots that he hasn't >killed Snape already. Practically, he had neither time nor opportunity. But I'm sure he'll try. >I think that later in the >books, though, Snape will be either killed or made to suffer greatly. I fear so. Poor, poor Severus ... >A question that came to mind: What does Snape think of Draco? I wonder myself. I tend to think that he likes Draco and finds him amusing (they have very similar sense of humour). >He >obviously knows his father, and probably thinks he's a git. The Snape/Lucius Malfoy relationship is deep mistery to me. They never mentioned each other, never had been seen together. However, I find two facts significant: 1. Draco is attending Hogwarts, altough his father wanted him in Durmstrang. It could be just Narcissa's persuasion, but it still surprises me that Lucius agreed. He obviously hates Dumbledore and certainly doesn't want "this Muggle-lover" to spoil his only son. Perhaps Malfoy thinks that Snape is good enough substitute for Karkaroff to risk sending Draco to Hogwearts. 2. [Disclaimer: I've read this in Polish translation of CoS, perhaps the English versions are quite different] What Draco said when he proposed Snape to apply for the post of Headmaster: [translating from Polish back to English]; "I think you can count on my father's vote, professor. I'll tell him you are the best teacher". What does he mean? That he didn't talk about Snape with his father? Or that he never spoke well on Snape? Or perhaps it's just interpreter's mistake? >But a >very powerful git. Maybe Voldemort doesn't know that Snape is a >traitor, but Lucius (or some other death eater) does, and is keeping >it as black mail. It would explain some of the favoritism that Snape >shows Draco. Personally I'd think twice before trying to blackmail Snape. Besides, it's very difficult to blackmail somebody who doesn't care a bit what people think of him. I'm sure that Voldemort meant Snape when he talked about the Death Eater "who I believe has left us forever", but that Death Eaters (at least some of them) cannot be sure whom he meant. > >Does anyone think that Snape's blatent unfairness is just residual >Potter-Hatred, and a bias toward Slytherin House? I'm afraid it might be Snape's sense of humour as well. I do hope there's something more in it... >I think the story of how Snape became a death eater, and how he >changed his mind needs to be told. (Thank goodness there's a whole >nother three books to tell us.) Yes! I can't wait to read it! Monika Z. From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 15:12:31 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:12:31 -0000 Subject: Neville, esp. parents In-Reply-To: <957cqm+v570@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <959a0v+mgcd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11338 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > Karin wrote: > > Why doesn't anyone seem to know about his parents? > > I wonder whether Hermione knows. She's read up on the history of V's > rise and fall and it may well have been in there. Score another 2 > points for her sensitivity if so, for reaching out to Neville and > keeping his loss to herself. > I wondered about that as well. The Longbottoms seem to have been rather in the forefront of the fight, so she may well have read about it. If so, though, I wonder why she wouldn't have brought it up at some point. I know she wouldn't want to mention it since Neville hasn't, wanting to respect his feelings, but in his defense at some point I'd think she might mention it. I also wonder if he's shared anything with Ginny. Ginny seems to be the only one Hermione told about Krum, so she must trust her to keep her confidence. Neville trusted Ginny with his feelings enough to ask her to the Yule Ball, so maybe he has also confided in her about other things. They're both 'off-screen' pretty much - they may spend more time together than we know. In fact, if I can't have Harry for Ginny, my second choice would be Ginny/Neville. Maybe she could bring him out of his shell. But don't worry Cap'n Jim, I'm still primarily H/G! Kimberly From heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu Wed Jan 31 15:50:08 2001 From: heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu (heidi.h.tandy.c92 at alumni.upenn.edu) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:50:08 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11339 From old_wych at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 15:26:24 2001 From: old_wych at yahoo.com (A B) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:26:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] No problem! (was Cedric & the other wand problem) In-Reply-To: <957ck9+5tsd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010131152624.28130.qmail@web5202.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11340 --- Amy Z wrote: So wizards who flee to > Albania with > almost no corporeal form "carry" their wands with > them in some way > also. > Sorry to bring up Tolkien again, but there is a precedent in his world. Sauron was present at the Downfall of Numenor and he had the One Ring at the time. When the island of Numenor sank into the sea, Sauron became "a spirit of malice"; he lost his body. Yet he managed to escape the Downfall in spirit form, and carry the Ring back to Mordor with him. Perhaps JKR imagained Voldemort doing something similar with his wand. Anne __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 15:43:16 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:43:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore knowing about Sirius References: <9589i8+ispa@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A783294.D4D71706@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11341 dherreid at colortechnology.com wrote: > But, didn't he pretty strongly imply that Sirius had only just told > him, when he [Dumbledore] was talking to Harry at the end of book 3 (I > think)? > > --Amanda > > Hmmm, okay, maybe I went a little beyond what I meant to say (after > all, I did say that that was what I believed at that moment) - but it > still doesn't change my mind about the central point; that it was > Dumbledore's plan to flush out Voldemorte's spy. As for Sirius' innocence, Dumbledore didn't know that Sirius *didn't* do the crime until after he got to talk to him at the end of PoA. To his credit, he believed him at that point, but prior to that, Dumbledore neither knew Sirius was innocent nor that he was an animagus. I refuse to believe Dumbledore would (a) condone the imprisonment of an innocent man in Azkaban, even if all he could do was complain, or (b) withhold potentially valuable information (animagus ability) about a dangerous criminal. --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From alw at wilsonllp.com Wed Jan 31 15:40:23 2001 From: alw at wilsonllp.com (Amy) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:40:23 -0500 Subject: Voldemorts Sphere of Influence Message-ID: <010501c08b9c$2071ecb0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> No: HPFGUIDX 11342 Got a question... I couldn't find anything in the archives, but it could have been I wasn't searching with the right words... How far does/did Voldemort's Reign of Terror extend? Was it just the UK that experienced the dark times? Or did Europe also have problems with Death Eaters? Did other countries even know what was going on? I know all of this is pure conjecture - I don't recall there being anything mentioned about Voldemort being feared around the world. If Voldemort fled to the Albanian forest where he would be safe, does that mean that the area is more tolerant of evil megalomaniacs? If I remember correctly, the giants also went to Europe to escape the ministry after Voldemort's downfall. And Durmstang (sp) (the school that actually teaches the Dark Arts) is rumored to be in Northern Europe. What about the Salem Institute (sorry, I can't remember the full name and my books and notes are at home). Are they even aware of what's going on? They were at the World Cup, so they would have at least seen what happened, unless they left early. How about other schools and wizard communities? Would they offer help? Or is Voldemort considered to be an internal problem that the UK wizards have to take care themselves. All of this started running through my head last night while I was trying to fall asleep and I was wondering if it had been discussed at all. I'd be curious to hear what everyone else thinks. Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 15:46:37 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:46:37 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Is Hermione bossy or is this sexism? References: <958aai+88hd@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A78335D.1D25CD83@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11343 Schlobin at aol.com wrote: > But later on..do adolescent females 14 plus get typed as "bossy" when > they are really just being assertive and clear? I don't know if it's just adolescent females. Adolescent males get pretty bossy too. I think it's the stage when one suddenly realizes one can (a) think and have original ideas and (b) put those ideas forward. However, they're just learning the finer points of *how* to put the ideas forward, so those who err to the side of forcefulness are "bossy." With any luck, we all grow out of it. Or learn to fine-tune it, however you want to phrase it. --Amanda "I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas." --T-shirt slogan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 15:54:33 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:54:33 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Dumbledore warning Hagrid? References: <958u1g+p9ea@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A783539.61812CB6@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11344 monika at darwin.inka.de wrote: > Maybe Dumbledore didn't warn Hagrid about Sirius because he didn't > think he would meet him at the Potter's house. If you have just > murdered your best friends, you won't usually stay put and wait until > the police (or the hit wizards) get you. I'm fuzzy on the timeline, but at the time Dumbledore dispatched Hagrid to get Harry, was it clear that Sirius was a danger? Voldemort found the Potters, so Sirius was involved....would that have tipped Dumbledore to warn Hagrid? --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Jan 31 15:54:21 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 02:54:21 +1100 Subject: The Good Ships H/H and R/H References: <94kjmp+m8ih@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <086801c08b9e$13f104b0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 11345 > Hey, moderators - is this the right moment to suggest it should be > off limits to make a comment that any ship that one disagrees with > is "a little dinghy". Perhaps the little R/H dinghy capsized in the wake of the H/H destroyer? Actually I'm a no-shipper. Or maybe a Ha/Ro, not that Jo would put that in the canon. I enjoy reading good fanfics and don't care about the ships. Simon. From bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr Wed Jan 31 16:01:11 2001 From: bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr (bob.mornington at wanadoo.fr) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:01:11 -0000 Subject: In praise of Snape In-Reply-To: <9599ri+qhum@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <959cs7+q51a@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11346 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., bob.mornington at w... wrote: > Well, just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons, I should like to > propose the following : > All the characters in HP are mono-dimensional cardboard cut outs with > one notable exception, Snape, who is the only multi-facetted > character amid all the HP personna. Sorry to reply to my own posting, but of course, that should have read "personae", but then I didn't have the advantage of having someone like Snape as a teacher to encourage me to be more demanding on myself and less careless in my use of the English language. > Is he good? Is he bad? Is he nice (though strict) or is he nasty? > Does he ultimately work for Harry's good, or for his downfall? Isn't > Harry's ultimate quest to measure up to Snape's uncompromising moral > standards and (pedantic) exactitude? > At the end of the day, either you land up sloppy or you become Snape- > like. It's matter of choice. > I'm looking forward to future HP books where the Snape ? Harry > reconciliation will occur. > "I know I've been tough on you kid, but you've proved yourself, and > now I can reveal to you some truths that I now know you're strong > enough and man enough to deal with ." From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Jan 31 16:05:48 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:05:48 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" References: <94kio3+dcs3@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <092601c08b9f$af387e70$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 11347 "Oh my God, you killed Penny!" | | | | | | | | | ----- Original Message ----- From: "Flying Ford Anglia" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 5:32 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] "I see no ships!" > Ebony said: > > << confirmed no-shipper clinging to a piece of driftwood, weary of their > shipless fandom existence. That's when we on the Love Boat/Destroyer > H/H throw them a lifeline (usually the first chapter of PoU) and > reel 'em on up. Right, Neil? ;-)>>> > > *** > > It was a chill night, as the vast passenger liner H/H sailed into > inky blackness. While thousands of people slept soundly in their > cabins, Duty Officer Ebony Thomas sat in the Crow's Nest watchfully > scanning the swelling waters for signs of trouble. All seemed quiet, > so she returned to her book, "Snitch Bitch: The Memoirs of a > Quidditch Queen". > > After a few moments, she felt a blast of cold and sudden unease. She > glanced up and, from nowhere, there it was, like a vast building of > opalescent glass. They were going to hit it for sure: SOLID ICE! > > Ebony hurtled down the iron staircase to the deck below, her heart > pounding. > > 'Head for the lifeboats!' she screamed, arms akimbo, eyes flashing a > little too madly. 'Women, children and small, unfashionable models > of car first!!!' > > On the far side of the ship, Captain Linsenmayer heard the commotion, > as people began flinging open cabin doors, shouting to each other and > generally stampeding the deck outside her cabin. She was in the > middle of a prenatal deep breathing routine and really didn't > appreciate the interruption. Slowly, she eased herself up and opened > the door. As she stepped outside, there was a ghastly metallic > creaking, followed by a deafening crash, as the ship hit the berg. > The Captain gasped in horror, and clung to the doorpost. > > Meanwhile, down below, able mechanimagus FF Anglia rolled out of his > housing in the boiler room, and with a flash of his headlamps, > transformed into a boyishly handsome human form. He made his way > to the upper decks, quickly, ignoring the panic around him, and made > a beeline for the nearest lifeboat. He sneaked under the tarpaulin, > shut his ears to the hubbub outside, and waited.. > > Three hours later, FF awoke to the sound of distant screams. He was > adrift in the lifeboat, and surrounded by a ring of faces, most of > them sprouting whiskers: three hags, a House-Elf dressed in a flour- > sack and a couple of disgruntled cats. He looked over the side of > the boat. In the distance, the gigantic shape of the H/H was angled > at a dangerous slant and beginning a slow slide beneath the surface > of the ocean. He could just about make out the pregnant silhouette > of the Captain near the prow, grimly determined to go down with her > ship. Exhausted, FF fell back into the boat and soon drifted into a > half-conscious state. > > Ten hours later still, FF woke up again and all was silent, but for > the gentle cackling of the hags and the lapping of brine against > the sides of the boat. He looked around the starlit waters and felt > inner calm, but great sadness. There wasn't a ship in sight. > > Neil > > (Hmmm. Ships AND fanfic? I must get that seen to...) > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at egroups.com > > > > From HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Wed Jan 31 16:05:20 2001 From: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com (HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com) Date: 31 Jan 2001 16:05:20 -0000 Subject: New poll for HPforGrownups Message-ID: <980957120.305.66776.qj@yahoogroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11348 Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the HPforGrownups group: How do you pronounce "Voldemort"? o Voiced /t/--VOL-de-mort o Silent /t/--VOL-de-more To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms From john at walton.to Wed Jan 31 16:07:09 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:07:09 +0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pronunciation help: Draco In-Reply-To: <9597vr+7m8t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11349 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > I received a feedback to the Lexicon from someone who questioned what > I put for Draco's name on the Pronunciation Page of the Lexicon. I > used DRAY-ko, which is the way my American mouth says it and the way > Jim Dale says it on the tapes. That just sounds right to me. This > person suggested that since it's from Latin, it should be pronounced > DRAH-ko. Granted, it would be /ah/ in Latin (the word draconis would > be pronounced drah-KO-nus), but DRAH-ko just sounds weird to me. Is > my American bias showing or what here? Help me out... IIRC, JKR herself, during that Desert Island Discs interview posted aaaages ago, pronounces it DRAYko. Stephen Fry pronounces it thus on the audiobooks he read. You could explain it away by saying that DRAHko would be Church Latin (which pronounces Vs as Vs and not Ws, and other funny pronunciation differences). Plus, he's English, not Roman. --John == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == John Walton john at walton.to "Con-ser-va-tive, n. A statesman who is enamoured of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others." --Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary", 1842-c.1914 == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == | == From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 16:07:16 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:07:16 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pronunciation help: Draco References: <9597vr+7m8t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A783834.F46F9B9F@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11350 Steve Vander Ark wrote: > This person suggested that since it's from Latin, it should be > pronounced DRAH-ko. Granted, it would be /ah/ in Latin (the word > draconis would be pronounced drah-KO-nus), but DRAH-ko just sounds > weird to me. Is my American bias showing or what here? Help me out... Well, very few people I know pronounce "Caesar" correctly as "KI(long i)-sar", and *it's* from Latin, too. I think you're justified with DRAY-co, because the root has gotten into so many languages and been modified into their words, but the other works, too. I went for DRAY-co because it's so close to "drake," i.e., firedrake, a derivative. But DRAH-co is also arguable, since "dragon" has that sound. Of course, according to, what, half of you? I pronounce Voldemort wrong. --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 16:08:39 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:08:39 -0600 Subject: voldemort poll question Message-ID: <3A783887.B57EDC56@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11351 Hey, moderators, I still can't figure out how to do an open-ended poll. I didn't want the Voldemort pronunciation one to close; can you tell me how to make it open-ended before too many people vote and I lose it when I edit the poll? --Amanda From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Jan 31 16:34:46 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:34:46 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Which character are you quiz . . . References: <94l0q9+bvtp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <098201c08ba3$b981de40$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 11352 # 1 Hermione Granger # 2 Ron Weasley # 3 Neville Longbottom # 4 Severus Snape # 5 Rubeus Hagrid Hermione seems reasonable, as I said I excel at academics. Ron or Neville seem reasonable as I said I have a tendency to feel inadequate or insecure about myself. Perhaps Hermione or Hagrid were influenced by my non-athleticism. I do see parts of myself in all 5 of those. Simon. From rlpenar at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 17:06:41 2001 From: rlpenar at yahoo.com (rlpenar at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:06:41 -0000 Subject: Another strike against the artists Message-ID: <959gn1+c7cv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11353 Anyone else seen today's page on the daily HP calendar? It shows the "Official Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry" shield, consisting of a gold shield with a large black H in the center. No crests from all the houses, just the big H. What the heck?? From zsenya at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 17:10:40 2001 From: zsenya at yahoo.com (zsenya at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:10:40 -0000 Subject: Daily Affirmations of the Good Ship R/H In-Reply-To: <3A781CF7.BC6F2548@swbell.net> Message-ID: <959gug+tigu@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11354 Penny (and everyone) Well, bear in mind that Arabella and I created SugarQuill as an extension of our own email obsessing and chat, and that this was all conceived in good fun (and also so that we could archive all the fan fic that we really like to read in one place, and also to encourage writing in general). As I told one person who was posting under crude names, since we pay for the site, we get to be dictators if we want. I control the delete key, but I don't delete anything unless it is crude, and off topic. That said...I will respond accordingly > > 1. Harry and Hermione is a ridiculous IMPOSSIBILITY. Harry is allowed to date Cho, but will end up with Ginny. > > "Allowed"? I thought JKR was writing the books. :--) Yes, but we're writing the fan fic! > > 5. Ginny doesn't spend all her waking time giggling. > > How do you know? Well, there's pretty good evidence in Book IV that she doesn't. She comforts Ron in the common room very calmly and maturely. > > 7.. NO ONE is allowed to say that Ron will turn bad (Well okay, you > > can say it - freedom of speech and all that. But we'll kick you out.) > > Can I say Ron *could* betray Harry (even unwittingly)? There's a > difference between speculating about possibilities and making firm > predictions. I know I've never said "Ron will turn evil." I've only > speculated that there is the potential for him to betray Harry -- either > unwittingly (falling into a Voldemort trap -- seduced by riches, etc.) > or because he was motivated by a fleeting emotion at the exact wrong > time (jealousy over Hermione perhaps). > > My perception is that the R/H camp seems quite bent on being sure Ron > receives *no* criticism of any kind (while liberally dishing it out to > the other characters I might add). Is this zero-tolerance policy > sanctioned by the leadership of the Good Ship R/H? > > Penny You may say whatever you want - we welcome discussion! The "Ron will turn evil" quote was created by ourselves as worst case scenario. We do criticize Ron on our discussion boards occasionally. Recently, everyone has been speculating about how he will respond if/when he finds out about what Harry did with the TriWizard earnings. In our little worlds, he also behaves like a pigheaded jerk before accepting Harry dating his sister [Big Smiles here....] :) :) :) From simon at basilisk2.cjb.net Wed Jan 31 17:18:07 2001 From: simon at basilisk2.cjb.net (Simon Biber) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 04:18:07 +1100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pronunciation help: Draco References: <9597vr+7m8t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <0a6d01c08ba9$c89fbea0$4cdafea9@EAGLE> No: HPFGUIDX 11355 > I received a feedback to the Lexicon from someone who questioned what > I put for Draco's name on the Pronunciation Page of the Lexicon. I > used DRAY-ko, which is the way my American mouth says it and the way > Jim Dale says it on the tapes. That just sounds right to me. This > person suggested that since it's from Latin, it should be pronounced > DRAH-ko. Granted, it would be /ah/ in Latin (the word draconis would > be pronounced drah-KO-nus), but DRAH-ko just sounds weird to me. Is > my American bias showing or what here? Help me out... I agree that the Latin would be pronounced DRAH-ko. I'm one of these people who pronounces Caesar KAI-sar and Caecilius kai-KI-li-us. Nevertheless, I would say Draco Malfoy as DRAH-ko. Am I any help? Simon. From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 18:18:59 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (aiz24 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:18:59 -0000 Subject: No subject Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11356 From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 17:37:05 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:37:05 -0000 Subject: Shipping through the cracks In-Reply-To: <3A7798A3.27607F04@swbell.net> Message-ID: <959ig1+lku3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11357 Penny said: >Let's see this HGTG cliche is *bad* in the R/H world, but the sappy >OBHWF cliche is perfectly fine? :--) I protest! Not all R/Hers are OBHWF proponents!! I personally think we're going to have OBHWF no matter who romances whom. Except, of course, for the slightly happiness-dampening fact that at least one Weasley is going to get killed. We'll have OBHWF for the simple and oft-repeated reason that Harry and (now that the Witch Weekly business has been cleared up) Hermione are already members of the family. Even before Hermione becomes an official Weasley sister/daughter by marrying Ginny. Anyone think that Molly is ticked at Hermione not only for throwing over Harry dear, but also for not tumbling to the fact that Molly's Ronnikins loves her? (Mothers have a talent for knowing we like someone before we even know it ourselves.) Re: Molly and Arthur, I think "henpecked" is way too strong a word (not to mention a tad misogynist). So he's nervous when she's angry. Who doesn't react to their spouse's blowups that way? It doesn't mean it happens often. Amy Z shipper on the frayed but still gallant yacht M/A From gerreld_terrent at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 17:22:52 2001 From: gerreld_terrent at yahoo.com (gerreld_terrent at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:22:52 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore's true motives? Message-ID: <959hlc+625s@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11358 I just recently joined this group so I am not sure if this was a topic of discussion but it has been nagging at my brain for some time. Dumbledore, when talking to Harry after he escaped from Voldemort, did something that caught my attention and made me second guess his true motives. The actual words were this (pg 696 second paragraph, hardcover): "And he was right-he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face." For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure he imagined it, I was just interested in what other people thought about the reaction of Dumbledore to the fact that Voldemort was no longer incapable of hurting Harry. Gerreld Terrent From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 17:42:39 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:42:39 -0000 Subject: AD's reasoning on Nov. 1 (was Who should raise Harry) In-Reply-To: <958u1g+p9ea@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <959iqf+ufkd@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11359 Monika wrote: >Maybe Dumbledore didn't warn Hagrid about Sirius because he didn't >think he would meet him at the Potter's house. If you have just >murdered your best friends, you won't usually stay put and wait until >the police (or the hit wizards) get you. Good point. But doesn't he need to warn him that there's still someone out there who wants to kill Harry? I guess I can accept that he just thought this way was safest. Or that he was sure the traitor, knowing that his master was unable to kill Harry, wouldn't dare try it himself. He was right about that. Peter must've known, since the entire wizarding world did, that Harry had survived--but when V fell, instead of trying to finish what V had started he saved his own skin. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------------------- "We don't send people to Azkaban just for blowing up their aunts!" -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ------------------------------------------------------------------- From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 31 17:51:45 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:51:45 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pronunciation help: Draco In-Reply-To: <9597vr+7m8t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11360 According to the Scholastic Pronunciation Guide (audio), it's DRAY-co. http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/books/pronunciation/play.htm This was where I learned how Voldemort is pronounced (silent T) -- note for new members: you have to click on the word "Voldemort" 3 times before it pronounces the name. First it says He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named, then click again and it says You-Know-Who, and then click again and it says Voldemort. Cute. -----Original Message----- From: Steve Vander Ark [mailto:vderark at bccs.org] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:38 AM To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] pronunciation help: Draco I received a feedback to the Lexicon from someone who questioned what I put for Draco's name on the Pronunciation Page of the Lexicon. I used DRAY-ko, which is the way my American mouth says it and the way Jim Dale says it on the tapes. That just sounds right to me. This person suggested that since it's from Latin, it should be pronounced DRAH-ko. Granted, it would be /ah/ in Latin (the word draconis would be pronounced drah-KO-nus), but DRAH-ko just sounds weird to me. Is my American bias showing or what here? Help me out... Steve Vander Ark The Harry Potter Lexicon which had all sorts of word help pages and links http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 17:50:06 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:50:06 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Theory of magic food References: <94qdem+g51b@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A78504E.1501A7BC@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11361 Amy wrote: > > 3. How come some wizards can conjure up platters of food, while > poor old Mrs. Weasley has to cook with her wand? > > Ah, the burning Wizard Economics question. My theory: cooking is a > mixture of muggle-type work and conjuring. (Cream sauce does come > pouring out of her wand, after all.) An optional or additional > possibility: you can only conjure what you've got "in the bank," so > to speak. Dumbledore can conjure up anything that Hogwarts' riches > can afford; Mrs. W can conjure up only what the Weasleys can > afford. ??? Okay, here's my take on it. Magic seems to me to involve two things; either the manipulation of Real Matter, which must of necessity be limited to the Real Matter you have access to, or illusion, limited only by the skill of the spellcaster. Cooking involves the manipulation of Real Stuff, physical, tangible stuff. Wizards, like other folk, buy their food, and store it in their equivalent of the pantry. When Mrs. Weasley made white sauce, she was using a spell that drew on the supplies she had, the milk, flour, butter, etc., at the house, mixed them correctly, and poured them out the end of her wand. The food at Hogwarts is generally prepared by house elves and somehow magically appears on the plates, but again, it's Real Food prepared by someone. I imagine there's some "store" of prepared stuff held in a magical limbo for occasions when Dumbledore's entertaining and offers refreshments with a wave of the wand--i.e., tea and cakes in Hagrid's hut, or perhaps it appeared a la drawing on the Hogwarts pantry and his skill was such that it got prepared real fast. Illusory food, like illusory leprechaun gold, can presumably be picked up and handled. I imagine it can be eaten. But it won't do to feed a family on, it's not real, and will not provide nutrients to the body or sustain life [this has led to some wonderful ideas for marketing wizard diets to the world]. This is why the Weasleys have to stretch their (real) gold to feed their family with (real) food. I imagine they could have the illusion of a grander house with grander fittings, but it's not their style. How was that? --Amanda From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 17:50:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:50:36 -0000 Subject: pronunciation help: Draco In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <959j9c+7ach@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11362 John wrote: > IIRC, JKR herself, during that Desert Island Discs interview posted aaaages > ago, pronounces it DRAYko. Stephen Fry pronounces it thus on the audiobooks > he read. > > You could explain it away by saying that DRAHko would be Church Latin (which > pronounces Vs as Vs and not Ws, and other funny pronunciation differences). > Plus, he's English, not Roman. And just think: if it weren't DRAYko, CM couldn't have rhymed it with Waco in his "Bounce off the Wall" filk. Now THAT would have been a loss for the literary world. Amy Z still laughing over that line <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Draco in leather- ahhh- but what's his sexual orientation? -HP Haiku #712 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From aiz24 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 18:04:36 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:04:36 -0000 Subject: Draco/Snape relationship In-Reply-To: <01c08b98$7c82a340$0800a8c0@Serwer> Message-ID: <959k3k+313o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11363 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Monika Zaboklicka" wrote: > I'm so glad somebody started this thread! Thanks, Teek! > > >I think that if anyone who Draco "cares about" was to be hurt by > >Voldemort, it would be Snape. > > I'm not sure Malfoy cares for him. The only thing we know for certain is > that Snape favours Draco almost beyond common sense. Do we? I'm not even sure about this. We know Snape favors the Slytherins in general, and he doesn't punish Draco for things he'd punish Gryffindors (particularly Harry) for. This information comes to us via Harry, of course, but it seems to be objectively true. But I don't know if we have any reason to think Snape favors, much less likes, Draco. The most egregious case is in PA when he makes Ron and Harry cut up Draco's roots and all that, but is this really for Draco's benefit or is Snape just using Draco as a way to get at our boys? In which case Snape and Draco do a lot of mutual using. (I don't necessarily believe Draco thinks Snape is the best teacher in the school, either, when he says so in CS. He's sucking up.) >I guess Draco likes it, > but I'm not sure what he thinks of Snape. I have an impression that he finds > Snape more "useful" than respect-worthy (you know, something like "Who cares > what Snape thinks? He'll back us up no matter what we do!"). Amy Z -------------------------------------------------------- Dudley thought for a moment. It looked like hard work. --Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone -------------------------------------------------------- From editor at texas.net Wed Jan 31 18:10:26 2001 From: editor at texas.net (Amanda Lewanski) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:10:26 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Canary Creams/not wandless References: <955n9k+sdcs@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A785511.6E80A292@texas.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11364 mschub at yahoo.com wrote: > Also, just as an addendum to the transfiguration/animagi thing, what > about Gred and Forge's Canary Creams? They would seem to be a > "wandless magic" (although I suppose they could fall under the heading > of Potions, as they must be ingested to work), and it's something that > Fred and George are able to do. Now, they're no dummies, but they're > no Percy either. Just a thought. It's not wandless at all. They hexed them--pointed their wands at the custard tarts (or whatever they were) and performed a hex. This hex had a delayed trigger requiring someone to eat the tart. --Amanda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 17:56:18 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:56:18 -0000 Subject: Shipping through the cracks In-Reply-To: <3A7798A3.27607F04@swbell.net> Message-ID: <959jk2+5isf@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11365 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: Kathy wrote: > > > Most of the "Calm" relationships I have seen personally seem to be > > that way mostly because one or both of the partners aren't standing up > > for what they really want. (Before you start the flame-throwers, I > > hasten to add that this is merely my experience and I am fully aware > > that not all "Calm" relationships are this way. I am merely try to > > explain why I prefer the "Volatile".) Penny wrote: > > Good thing you added that parenthetical disclaimer ... or I'd have had > to throw some flames your way. Dude! Slam! (that's my inner teenage boy - he doesn't get to play much, so I let him come out to comment on that one) :--) My husband & I both have strong > personalities, but we choose to resolve our differences in a calm > cooperative manner. This does not mean one or both of us is meek & > mealy-mouthed & not standing up for ourselves. > > Penny Wow, You may have a Calm relationship with your hubby, but I think you and Kathy are a few steps into the Volatile category! :D Seriously though - you two are cracking me up! Kimberly, looking around for possible shelter when the flame-throwers arrive. From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 31 18:17:27 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:17:27 -0700 Subject: Snape's Choice (was: Re: Is Draco Redeemable? + Draco/Snape relationship) In-Reply-To: <20010131060338.2693.qmail@web4703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11366 For a good story about young Snape and the choices he made, try Blaise's "Second Chance" on www.fanfiction.net -- excellent peek into Snape's dilemma. -----Original Message----- From: Teek Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Is Draco Redeemable? + Draco/Snape relationship I think the story of how Snape became a death eater, and how he changed his mind needs to be told. (Thank goodness there's a whole nother three books to tell us.) - Teek ---- From joym999 at aol.com Wed Jan 31 18:52:51 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (joym999 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:52:51 -0000 Subject: Suggestion to decrease the volume Message-ID: <959mu3+9bg0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11367 I have a suggestion which will probably result in my getting turned into a canary, but here goes: I have been overwhelmed with the number of posts on this group and unable to keep up, even though I read the group on the web and skip over the stuff I am not interested in. (even that takes time) If I am unable to check the group for even a day or two it is usually hopeless to try and catch up. I think we really need to cut down on the volume, and one way to do it would be to ship out the shippers. Now, I admit I am biased: I am not a shipper, I dont care whether Hermione gets involved with Ron, Harry, Viktor Krum or Dobby. But wouldnt it make sense to have another group for shipping discussions? The shippers wouldnt have to leave this group, just go to another group when they want to sail. That would cut down the posts on this group by half. It was just a suggestion...dont hurt me. --Joywitch From monika at darwin.inka.de Wed Jan 31 19:12:56 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:12:56 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Ron/Sirius parallels In-Reply-To: <3A78251D.4E805797@swbell.net> References: <95884q+hpe1@eGroups.com> <3A78251D.4E805797@swbell.net> Message-ID: <2vlg7ts9k4kf6f9kvdvrdrl8qqatets0dt@4ax.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11368 On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:45:49 -0600, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: >We still don't know the full story on the werewolf prank pulled by >Sirius, and so I reserve judgment against Sirius in that matter until >the story is more fully fleshed out. I am in no way a Snape fan though, >so that colors my perception. I much more readily give the benefit of >the doubt to Sirius (and Dumbledore -- who knew the whole story & did >not expell Sirius). I distrust Snape, so I'm disinclined to give any >credence to his version of events. Thanks Penny for pointing this out. I am always amazed about the fact that a lot of people see Snape as an innocent victim of this practical joke. Like you I cannot believe that Dumbledore would have reacted in the way he did if Snape was all innocent. Of course he wanted to protect Lupin, and maybe that was one of the reasons of why he kept it quiet. But Sirius was also one of his most promising students, so he might not have wanted to expel him and destroy his future. But I also dislike and distrust Snape, so I'm more inclined to put part of the blame on him. >>Kimberley said: In PoA he was in attack/revenge/protection mode, which was quite >> anger-oriented, > >Penny said: I agree with Monika & Carole that his actions appear to be less >motivated by *anger* as they are by PTSD, stress, etc. Anger, aggression and violence is one of the core problems of PTSD, it's a classic symptom in male victims. That's why men with PTSD often get stigmatized, they are considered to be violent jerks, but the truth is that they can't control it because it is a physiological reaction. And after a while, they don't even need a trigger that is directly related to the original traumatic event, they build up a kind of trigger network that will contain elements which have nothing to do with the original trauma. Sirius is in constant attack mode in PoA, but if you look at it more closely, it shouldn't really surprise you why this is. >>Kimberly said: You have to take into account the fact that his first instinct, as a >> kid in the MWPP days, as a young adult when James and Lily died, and >> in the events of PoA, was to seek vengeance. The need to seek vengeance is also a classic PTSD symptom. This is why I think he had ASD (Acute Stress Disorder) when he went after Pettigrew. The symptoms are the same as for PTSD, but the onset is immediate and not delayed. Think about it: his whole world had just been shattered, his best friends had been murdered and he thought he was responsible for it. Here we have a classic PTSD case with the need for vengeance and overwhelming survivor guilt. >Penny said: As a teenager in the MWPP days -- we don't know yet *what* motivated him >to play that prank. I'm not sure it's fair to say it was vengeance when >we really don't know much about it other than it occurred & that >Dumbledore knew about it (chose not to take action) and that Snape is >still incredibly bitter about it. I also had the impression that Sirius took it for a schoolboy prank but Snape still was incredibly bitter about it. After about twenty years. Is that normal? I don't think so. Maybe there is still something more about the roots of their hatred which we still don't know. >As a young adult when James & Lily died - he might not have been seeking >vengeance per se as much as he hoped to trap Peter, turn him into the >authorities & clear his own name. He was outwitted by Peter -- and as >suggested by others yesterday, I would wager this was due to his stress >level & shock. He did go looking for Peter, but who's to say his intent >all along wasn't simply to bind him up & turn him into the authorities >so that his own name could be cleared? Hmm, I don't know. If he really had Acute Stress Disorder (and I'm pretty convinced that was the case) he would actually have been seeking vengeance. That's the "disorder" part in the name of the syndrome. But he couldn't control it, it was purely instinctive and that's why I think he wasn't responsible for doing it. It would also support the PTSD theory: since he didn't get help immediately after the events, his symptoms would have persisted and developed into full-blown PTSD. >Penny said: I couldn't agree more! I had thought it was very weird that Harry and >Ron had never had a fight up until GoF. I have to agree here, too. That was really weird. I think that boys that age would fight - if not all the time - but quite often, although they are friends. So their fight in GoF was long overdue. >Penny said: My main problem with Ron in the fight in GoF is this: I think Hermione >immediately saw from the expression on Harry's face that he hadn't >entered his name. I can't help wondering *what* Ron was thinking -- it >strikes me that he just wasn't all that perceptive. I think Ron just isn't mature enough to overcome his jealousy. Girls of 14 or 15 are generally a lot more mature than boys of the same age. I didn't like this aspect of Ron either, but I tend to attribute it to his immaturity. Monika -- Check out our book and movie reviews: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html Current book: William H. Calvin: The Ascent of Mind From pbnesbit at msn.com Wed Jan 31 19:21:58 2001 From: pbnesbit at msn.com (pbnesbit at msn.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:21:58 -0000 Subject: Snape's Choice (was: Re: Is Draco Redeemable? + Draco/Snape relationship) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <959okm+g8e7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11369 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Sister Mary Lunatic" wrote: > > For a good story about young Snape and the choices he made, try Blaise's > "Second Chance" on www.fanfiction.net -- excellent peek into Snape's > dilemma. > > I second that recommendation. It is an excellent story and a darn probable one too! Peace and Plenty, Parker > > -----Original Message----- > From: Teek > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Is Draco Redeemable? + Draco/Snape > relationship > I think the story of how Snape became a death eater, and how he > changed his mind needs to be told. (Thank goodness there's a whole > nother three books to tell us.) > > - Teek > ---- From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Jan 31 19:55:01 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:55:01 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Cedric's death and Cho References: <980891858.121403.96078.l9@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <3A786D88.715343BF@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 11370 > The death of Cedric has freed up CC romantically, but has also directly > connected Harry with her boyfriend's death. Quite how CC will deal with > this, I wouldn't like to say - but I think her response to it might be > pivotal to at least one of the remaining books. She might fall in love > with HP as per first indications - equally, she might come to hate him > and betray him. She might even do both. Keep a *very* close eye on that > sub-plot next time out - I have a gut feeling that it's going to be > important. I agree, but were Cedric and Cho necessarily an item? They could also have been close friends who didn't have anyone to go with, and Cho couldn't go with Harry because she'd already promised Cedric she wouldn't let him down...none of the affection we've seen between them is undeniably romantic - it could just as easily be close friendship. Or, if you're a slash fan, perhaps Cedric asked Cho because the Yule Ball unofficial rules are very traditionalist, and the person who Cedric really wanted to ask was a certain fellow Hogwarts champion...hey, it's been done ;). Not that I'm overly serious about either of my suggestions, but I always have to pipe up when non-confirmed pairings are taken for granted - not the Great Shipping Debate because I'm neutral in that matter, but other pairings... ~Firebolt From absinthe at mad.scientist.com Wed Jan 31 19:57:39 2001 From: absinthe at mad.scientist.com (absinthe at mad.scientist.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:57:39 -0000 Subject: Voldemorts Sphere of Influence In-Reply-To: <010501c08b9c$2071ecb0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: <959qnj+gejq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11371 Amy wrote: > Got a question... > > I couldn't find anything in the archives, but it could have been I wasn't searching with the right words... > > How far does/did Voldemort's Reign of Terror extend? Was it just the UK that experienced the dark times? Or did Europe also have problems with Death Eaters? Did other countries even know what was going on? I know all of this is pure conjecture - I don't recall there being anything mentioned about Voldemort being feared around the world. > > If Voldemort fled to the Albanian forest where he would be safe, does that mean that the area is more tolerant of evil megalomaniacs? If I remember correctly, the giants also went to Europe to escape the ministry after Voldemort's downfall. And Durmstang (sp) (the school that actually teaches the Dark Arts) is rumored to be in Northern Europe. > > What about the Salem Institute (sorry, I can't remember the full name and my books and notes are at home). Are they even aware of what's going on? They were at the World Cup, so they would have at least seen what happened, unless they left early. How about other schools and wizard communities? Would they offer help? Or is Voldemort considered to be an internal problem that the UK wizards have to take care themselves. > > All of this started running through my head last night while I was trying to fall asleep and I was wondering if it had been discussed at all. I'd be curious to hear what everyone else thinks. IIRC, Rowling stated in an interview that Voldemort was attempting global domination, but started with the UK first. It's hard to say how large was Voldemort's international following. I get the impression that Karkaroff is a non-Brit. I think Sirius said that there were many Death Eaters that were never caught, so there could have been international Death Eaters. :-)Milz From andrea at noembromation.com.br Wed Jan 31 20:24:59 2001 From: andrea at noembromation.com.br (andrea at noembromation.com.br) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:24:59 -0000 Subject: pronunciation help: Draco In-Reply-To: <9597vr+7m8t@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <959sar+gm22@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11372 Steve wrote: > I received a feedback to the Lexicon from someone who questioned what > I put for Draco's name on the Pronunciation Page of the Lexicon. I > used DRAY-ko, which is the way my American mouth says it and the way > Jim Dale says it on the tapes. That just sounds right to me. This > person suggested that since it's from Latin, it should be pronounced > DRAH-ko. Granted, it would be /ah/ in Latin (the word draconis would > be pronounced drah-KO-nus), but DRAH-ko just sounds weird to me. Is > my American bias showing or what here? Help me out... Being a Romance language speaker, DRAH-ko was always the only thinkable pronunciation to me. I was downright shocked when I heard DRAY-ko on the Scholastic Guide. I'm trying to get used to this now, but it just sounds wrong! Do you guys pronounce it DRAY-ko even when the word is in a Latin phrase (like "Draco Sinister" or "Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus")? Andrea From klaatu at primenet.com Wed Jan 31 20:27:05 2001 From: klaatu at primenet.com (Sister Mary Lunatic) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:27:05 -0700 Subject: Eagle Owl (was RE: Chapter 28 Summary) In-Reply-To: <00a901c08b8a$166e77e0$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11373 The eagle owl, I think, was sent to Barty Crouch Jr (Moody)at Hogwarts, telling him that Barty Crouch Senior had escaped. It alerted Crouch/Moody to keep an eye out for his father's appearance, and allow Junior to capture and kill his father in the Forbidden Forest after Viktor and Harry found him. (That's my opinion, anyway...) -----Original Message----- From: Amy [mailto:alw at wilsonllp.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 6:31 AM To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Subject: [HPforGrownups] RE: Chapter 28 Summary: The Madness of Mr. Crouch QUESTIONS: Is the eagle owl Harry sees from the owlery important? I don't think I saw this mentioned anywhere...if it was, sorry for restating...doesn't Draco have an eagle owl? That thought popped into my head last night as I was trying to fall asleep. I seem to remember something in PS/SS about Malfoy having an eagle owl...I think it was in one of the owl delivery/breakfast scenes (maybe the first one?). Of course, I'm not sure what Draco's owl was doing roaming around that night? Maybe delivering a message to Rita Skeeter? Amy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Brought to you by Harry Potter for Grownups. For more information, see our website at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups -- also, you can check out our eGroups/YahooGroups merger pointers file at groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/+merger.txt To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: HPforGrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 20:50:37 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:50:37 -0000 Subject: Ron/Sirius parallels In-Reply-To: <3A78251D.4E805797@swbell.net> Message-ID: <959tqt+4fur@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11374 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer > > > wrote: > > > Not sure where I fit as I like both Ron and Sirius (to different > > degrees & for different reasons) but ... > > > I asked: > > I have to ask, after reading your post - is one of those degrees > >"not much at all"? ;) > Penny responded: > What -- just because I think Sirius is more closely paralleled by > Hermione, I'm now accused of not liking Ron? I sincerely regarded this > post as more of arguing Hermione/Sirius parallels, rather than > detracting from Ron as a person. I *do* like Ron! Really! Oops! Sorry! Wasn't trying to pick on you or anything! I guess I misunderstood your post to an extent. I apologize. I think you must have misunderstood mine as well (see below). I said: > > I think though that this leaves out his personality during his teen > > years, when the comparison can best be made. Then he *was* rather > > rash and impulsive, and easily angered. If not, his decision to send > > Snape off to face a full-on werewolf was far more cold and cruel, and > > I don't see evidence of that tendency in him in any of the books so > > far. > Penny replied: > We still don't know the full story on the werewolf prank pulled by > Sirius, and so I reserve judgment against Sirius in that matter until > the story is more fully fleshed out. I certainly wasn't making a judgement against Sirius - if I were then *my* post would be the one that was anti-Ron, as it would imply that Sirius's anger was a terrible flaw of some sort that Ron shared. I'm regarding it soleley as a character trait, and one that he seems to be taking in hand now. Note I said it would be worse if he weren't simply hot-headed, at least in my opinion. Remus himself says it was rash and dangerous, and I'd rather think it was done in the heat of the moment than that he was coldly plotting to put Snape in serious danger. Penny: I am in no way a Snape fan though, > so that colors my perception. I much more readily give the benefit of > the doubt to Sirius (and Dumbledore -- who knew the whole story & did > not expell Sirius). Again, Sirius doesn't need the benefit of the doubt from me - I'm not accusing him of anything but having been a rather rash and hot-tempered teenage boy. This is not something I consider to be a horrible offense. It is, in fact, fairly common. Penny again: I distrust Snape, so I'm disinclined to give any > credence to his version of events. I think, from the way Dumbledore interacts with him, that Snape is far more trustworthy than he is likeable. I'm sure his fear and anger color his version of events, but I don't doubt that a teenage boy might pull a prank like that without thinking of the consequences. I said: > > In PoA he was in attack/revenge/protection mode, which was quite > > anger-oriented, > Penny: > I agree with Monika & Carole that his actions appear to be less > motivated by *anger* as they are by PTSD, stress, etc. I think the anger may have been fueled by those things, but I don't think that the presence of those things negates the anger. Sudden and possibly useful realization: I think the fundamental problem in our understanding each other's points of view in this instance is that I see anger as a valid emotion - one that can sometimes lead to inappropriate actions, and needs to be controlled, but not something that is bad and wrong. As an example from my Christian perspective, Jesus was angry at the way the temple had been turned into a marketplace, and he dealt with it in a very angry manner. So to me anger is not necessarily bad, but it can sometimes be dangerous. From your responses I'm thinking maybe you see it differently? Penny: > > > He's much more the stable, wise, self-sacrificing, protective > > godfather. > > Me: > > I agree he's wise and self-sacrificing, and definitely he's > > protective, but as for stable, to be fair, in GoF he's not physically > > present very much. > Penny: > By stable, I meant he's *there* for Harry -- whether it's in person or > by owl-post. Oops - sorry! I misunderstood again - I thought by stable you were referring to a lack of angry reactions - I guess I inferred that it was a continuation of your argument that anger is not one of Sirius's main traits. That's why I said what I did - the last bit, that you didn't include, I mean, about how he couldn't very well fly off the handle at anyone when he wasn't physically present. Were you making a seperate point that I missed? Penny: > > > So .... all in all, I'm not so sure we can definitely ascribe a hot > > temper to Sirius. > > Me: > > You have to take into account the fact that his first instinct, as a > > kid in the MWPP days, as a young adult when James and Lily died, and > > in the events of PoA, was to seek vengeance. > Penny: > As a teenager in the MWPP days -- we don't know yet *what* motivated him > to play that prank. I'm not sure it's fair to say it was vengeance when > we really don't know much about it other than it occurred & that > Dumbledore knew about it (chose not to take action) and that Snape is > still incredibly bitter about it. Me: Ok, I can buy that - it's true we don't know what motivated it. I was assuming it was anger because the alternative as I saw it was something far more frightening. But I may be overlooking another more reasonable motivation. What is your suggestion? Penny some more: > As a young adult when James & Lily died - he might not have been seeking > vengeance per se as much as he hoped to trap Peter, turn him into the > authorities & clear his own name. He was outwitted by Peter -- and as > suggested by others yesterday, I would wager this was due to his stress > level & shock. He did go looking for Peter, but who's to say his intent > all along wasn't simply to bind him up & turn him into the authorities > so that his own name could be cleared? I may be remembering wrong, but I'm pretty sure he says in PoA that he went looking for him, and that he wanted to kill him, but that Peter was too quick for him. Can anyone tell me if I've made that up in my head? It wouldn't be the first time, I admit. But even if I got that wrong, as I understand it Sirius wasn't much of a suspect before Pettigrew created the scene, cried out that he'd betrayed James and Lily and then was 'killed' by him. Besides if it were me, my first thought immediately after the death of my best friend and his wife wouldn't be to clear my name. Granted it wouldn't be for vengeance either, but I don't think that's what was on his mind at that moment. Penny: > As for PoA -- I subscribe to the PTSD theory. I'm not sure we're seeing > Sirius' true personality there. Could be. But it is consistent with each other glimpse we have of him, as I see it, anyway. Penny: > > I said: I'm one of the few who paralleled Hermione to Sirius back when > > we were trying to compare the Trio to the Marauders. Most people > > paired her up with Lupin because of intellect, although I maintain > > that since McGonagall said James & Sirius were the brightest students > > of their year, Lupin must be slightly less intellectual (if relying on > > grades alone > > anyway). > > Me: >> Kimberly said: But there's a difference between bright and > > intellectual. From my observation Remus is a man of thought, Sirius a > > man of action, > > regardless of their relative IQs or grades. That's not to say Sirius > > isn't intellectual and Remus doesn't take action, but their general > > tendencies seem to run that way. Plus Remus missed a couple of days > > of classes every month due to err.... non-feminine pms :), which was > > bound to affect his grades. Especially if any of the teachers were > > like Snape, or even McGonagall. > Penny: > I agree -- that's why I added the qualifier re: if relying on grades > alone. But, I don't see Hermione as being strictly the intellectual > type. She puts her smarts to good use -- she uses practical application > all the time. So do you mean Remus doesn't? Penny: >She does reflexively turn to books, and I honestly can't > see Sirius being that type. But, she *also* thinks on her feet & has > natural "brightness" -- traits I do ascribe to Sirius. Again, see above. Can you give me examples of where Sirius is this way and/or Remus is not? I remember Remus thinking on his feet with the Dementors, and with Peeves. I remember Sirius having an idea for the dragons before he was interrupted by Ron trying to make up with Harry, but I think in that instance his suggestion was going to be the same thing that one of the Champions came up with, and Harry did better with Moody/Crouch's suggestion. Sirius did notice the potential in Crookshanks, and he put that to good use, but I don't see him as showing these traits particularly more than Remus. I really, honestly see parallels between Hermione and Lupin. Who helps Harry learn the summoning spells? Hermione. Who helps him learn to create a patronus? Lupin. I think Lupin is very sensible; he thinks on his feet and is prepared. He shows up with chocolate when the dementors strike because that's what is needed. Poppy Pomfrey commented on that with great respect. It was something like - finally, a DADA teacher who knows his remedies. Me: > > I agree that she is loyal, but I think they are both very loyal, and > > probably equally as loyal in different ways. She risks breaking > > rules and even being expelled - the two things that terrify her most - > > > > and Ron risks his life, both to help and protect their friends. > Penny: > This is very well-worded -- I like it. > > My main problem with Ron in the fight in GoF is this: I think Hermione > immediately saw from the expression on Harry's face that he hadn't > entered his name. I can't help wondering *what* Ron was thinking -- it > strikes me that he just wasn't all that perceptive. He let his own > jealousy swamp his initial perceptions. This much is reasonably > understandable in my mind. But, it seems to me that he couldn't then > get past his stubborness to accept what Hermione must have told him at > least once (that Harry hadn't entered himself in the Tournament & was > very upset/frightened). Now now ;), if I can't know the details about the Sirius/Snape incident, you can't know what Hermione told Ron - you can't have it both ways. Penny: >If he'd made some moves toward >reconciliation > early on, the fight could have ended. Yup. So could Harry have done. And Ron was the one to make the first moves. Harry wouldn't have it. But of course this veers completely off-course, as we were talking about whether Ron and Sirius are alike, so I'll move on. Penny: >Instead, he turned a deaf ear to > Hermione and possibly his own instincts. Again, we don't know what Hermione said to him or what he was thinking. I agree it was probably about jealousy, but this is even more speculative than my comments on Sirius and Snape as kids, since we do have *some* account of that incident. Penny: >I didn't like this aspect of > Ron at all -- it made me very nervous that he could have a similar > reaction in a situation when the stakes might be indeed even higher. > Just my opinion though! :--) Now see, my initial instincts on reading your post weren't completely off! But I can't see how this makes him dissimilar to Sirius, as Sirius did the very same thing to Remus. Lupin had done nothing to make his friends suspect him of being disloyal, but they distrusted him so much that they left him completely out of the decision to change secret-keepers. Had he known, Sirius might not have been sent to Azkaban for 12 years for a crime he didn't commit, to top it off. So I'd say that's more evidence that they *are* alike than that they're not. But of course that's my point of view, from over here on the Happy, Sappy H/G! Kimberly From DaveH47 at mindspring.com Wed Jan 31 20:58:00 2001 From: DaveH47 at mindspring.com (Dave Hardenbrook) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:58:00 -0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harold Bloom on HP In-Reply-To: <005801c08b87$2fc7e850$3d1fa8c0@chamblee> References: <957fsd+o27j@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010131124951.00d9a100@pop.mindspring.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11375 It seems to me the anti-Potterites are going at it the wrong way: If they want to stop kids reading Harry, all they have to do is make him *required reading* in the classrooms, then order the kids to write 20-page essays on the allegorical symbolism of Quidditch and the resemblance between the Death Eaters and the Russian Revolution; then Harry will be universally hated in no time! :) :) :) :) -- Dave From Unlucky07 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 21:16:07 2001 From: Unlucky07 at hotmail.com (Unlucky07 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:16:07 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore's True Motives Message-ID: <959van+n5tk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11376 <"And he was right-he could touch me without hurting himself, he Message-ID: <010201c08bcf$776e91c0$9e3d7bd5@tmeltcds> No: HPFGUIDX 11377 OK, so I'm a Brit, but I studied Latin for eight years at school ( 10 - 18 ) and I always think of it as drak(e)o. Michelle From moongirlk at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 22:01:46 2001 From: moongirlk at yahoo.com (Kimberly) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:01:46 -0000 Subject: Ron/Sirius parallels In-Reply-To: <2vlg7ts9k4kf6f9kvdvrdrl8qqatets0dt@4ax.com> Message-ID: <95a20a+vn6o@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11378 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Monika Huebner wrote: > > Thanks Penny for pointing this out. I am always amazed about the fact > that a lot of people see Snape as an innocent victim of this practical > joke. Like you I cannot believe that Dumbledore would have reacted in > the way he did if Snape was all innocent. Of course he wanted to > protect Lupin, and maybe that was one of the reasons of why he kept it > quiet. But Sirius was also one of his most promising students, so he > might not have wanted to expel him and destroy his future. But I also > dislike and distrust Snape, so I'm more inclined to put part of the > blame on him. I wasn't blaming, though, I was just saying it was probably a result of anger and/or hot-headedness. I certainly doubt that Snape was an innocent victim, he probably provoked it, but provoked or not, he was either angry, coldly cruel or really dangerously stupid, and I don't think he's cruel or stupid. Temper, to me, seemed like the most reasonable, understandable reason for doing what he did. > > Anger, aggression and violence is one of the core problems of PTSD, > it's a classic symptom in male victims. That's why men with PTSD often > get stigmatized, they are considered to be violent jerks, but the > truth is that they can't control it because it is a physiological > reaction. And after a while, they don't even need a trigger that is > directly related to the original traumatic event, they build up a kind > of trigger network that will contain elements which have nothing to do > with the original trauma. Sirius is in constant attack mode in PoA, > but if you look at it more closely, it shouldn't really surprise you > why this is. > The need to seek vengeance is also a classic PTSD symptom. This is why > I think he had ASD (Acute Stress Disorder) when he went after > Pettigrew. The symptoms are the same as for PTSD, but the onset is > immediate and not delayed. Think about it: his whole world had just > been shattered, his best friends had been murdered and he thought he > was responsible for it. Here we have a classic PTSD case with the need > for vengeance and overwhelming survivor guilt. > > Hmm, I don't know. If he really had Acute Stress Disorder (and I'm > pretty convinced that was the case) he would actually have been > seeking vengeance. That's the "disorder" part in the name of the > syndrome. But he couldn't control it, it was purely instinctive and > that's why I think he wasn't responsible for doing it. It would also > support the PTSD theory: since he didn't get help immediately after > the events, his symptoms would have persisted and developed into > full-blown PTSD. Thanks for the information on this, Monika. I don't know anything about either PTSD or ASD, and those things may well explain *why* he behaves the way he does. I can't know for sure. Either way, though, whether it's just his nature to have a hot temper, or if he has a hot temper because of these problems, the behavior is still there. I accept that he may have particular reasons for being volatile, but that just reinforces that he is, in fact, volatile, which is all I was asserting. I wasn't trying to place blame and say he's a bad person because of it. Sirius is one of my favorite characters. I enjoy trying to decide which is more appealing - Sirius or Lupin. Some days I lean toward the wild, unpredictable Sirius, some days I like the more pensive, care-worn Lupin. If somewhere there's a man who's a combination of the two, I'd sure like to meet him! Yow! Kimberly, Who suddenly feels a need for chocolate - it's good for more than just Dementor-curing! From particle at urbanet.ch Wed Jan 31 22:04:10 2001 From: particle at urbanet.ch (Firebolt) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:04:10 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Harold Bloom on HP References: <957fsd+o27j@eGroups.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20010131124951.00d9a100@pop.mindspring.com> Message-ID: <3A788BD9.9C1F7F2D@urbanet.ch> No: HPFGUIDX 11379 > It seems to me the anti-Potterites are going at it the wrong > way: If they want to stop kids reading Harry, all they > have to do is make him *required reading* in the > classrooms, then order the kids to write 20-page > essays on the allegorical symbolism of Quidditch > and the resemblance between the Death Eaters and the > Russian Revolution; then Harry will be universally hated > in no time! Hey, some of us kids would LIKE to write about the allegorical symbolism of Quidditch! It's bound to be more interesting than writing 1500 words on how Kafka writes about the 'guilty failure to arrive', right? J/K, of course, although I really did have to write that essay (and I honestly found myself enjoying it towards the end - was that because I was getting my 'I'm Done!' writer's fix, or is there something wrong with my definition of fun?). ~Firebolt From ffionelin at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 31 22:37:07 2001 From: ffionelin at yahoo.co.uk (ffionelin at yahoo.co.uk) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:37:07 -0000 Subject: Cedric's death and Cho In-Reply-To: <3A786D88.715343BF@urbanet.ch> Message-ID: <95a42j+6sk3@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11380 I agree with you, Firebolt on the 'look out for Cho' thing - although I definately t hink she and Cedric were boy/girlfriend - theyw ere described as walking down the corridors holding hands, which is enough f a hint I think - I mean, If Hermione and Harry did that, we'd all be in hysterics! But yes - I don't htink, if she is going to itnroduce love/hearache into Harry's life, that JK would pass up the opportunity of not allowing it to go smoothly! Do you think Cho will do the double-crossing, or will the fact hat Harry loves someone be taken advantage of [cho as hostage, this kind of thing?]. She does seem too nice to do something awful to him on purpose ... --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Firebolt wrote: > > The death of Cedric has freed up CC romantically, but has also directly > > connected Harry with her boyfriend's death. Quite how CC will deal with > > this, I wouldn't like to say - but I think her response to it might be > > pivotal to at least one of the remaining books. She might fall in love > > with HP as per first indications - equally, she might come to hate him > > and betray him. She might even do both. Keep a *very* close eye on that > > sub-plot next time out - I have a gut feeling that it's going to be > > important. > > I agree, but were Cedric and Cho necessarily an item? They could also have been close friends who didn't have anyone to go with, and Cho couldn't go with Harry because she'd already > promised Cedric she wouldn't let him down...none of the affection we've seen between them is undeniably romantic - it could just as easily be close friendship. Or, if you're a slash > fan, perhaps Cedric asked Cho because the Yule Ball unofficial rules are very traditionalist, and the person who Cedric really wanted to ask was a certain fellow Hogwarts > champion...hey, it's been done ;). > > Not that I'm overly serious about either of my suggestions, but I always have to pipe up when non-confirmed pairings are taken for granted - not the Great Shipping Debate because > I'm neutral in that matter, but other pairings... > > ~Firebolt From john at walton.to Wed Jan 31 23:03:35 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:03:35 +0000 Subject: ADMIN: Suggestions (& actions) to decrease list volume In-Reply-To: <959mu3+9bg0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 11381 Hi from your friendly Moderator With Rock #47. Thanks to Joywitch for her suggestion. However, if we start a thread on this before we Mods have sorted out functionality and other technical aspects of the possibilities in store, we'll be contributing to a vicious circle of posts about posts about posts. In the meantime, please email the Moderators directly at hpforgrownups-owner at egroups.com. However, for the meantime, here are two ideas we've had. For the shipping debates, please preface your message with SHIP: (like I've done with ADMIN:). Similarly, for discussing fanfiction, please use FF:. For example -- "SHIP: Snape/Dumbledore -- evidence in canon" "FF: Why I think ASA is the Best Fic Ever" ::wink:: Hope this helps in managing your lists. Again, that email address is hpforgrownups-owner at egroups.com. Cheers, and I hope everybody has a lovely February, --John ________________________________________________ John "Purple Meany" Walton john at walton.to =| Moderator With Rock #47 =| "Russian cabin boy in Celine Dion drag" of the HMS H/H =| Sing the Song of Time! http://www.fanfiction.net/index.fic/?action=story-read&storyid=111044 Remember: socks then shoes. ________________________________________________ From Unlucky07 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 23:04:09 2001 From: Unlucky07 at hotmail.com (Unlucky07 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:04:09 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore's true motives? In-Reply-To: <959hlc+625s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95a5l9+4nta@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11382 > > "And he was right-he could touch me without hurting himself, he > touched my face." > For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something > like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure > he imagined it, > > I was just interested in what other people thought about the reaction > of Dumbledore to the fact that Voldemort was no longer incapable of > hurting Harry. That's a really good point, I am new here also so I don't know if anybody has had discussions regarding this issue. Two possibilties pop up in my head; Dumbledore may have realized that the fact that Voldemort can touch harry could be a weakness that he could use. I was puzzled over what Dumbledore said in PoA regarding Harry being one day thankful for having saved Wormtails life. Could this be a result of it? Could Wormtail have unwittingly given Dumbledore the ability to defeat Voldemort? Could Harry's blood mixed in the spell lead to the downfall of Voldemort? The other idea that I had was something even I don't want to believe... Maybe Dumbledore is not really the good and noble wizard that we think he is. Why exactly is Voldemort afraid of Dumbledore?! Could Albus Dumbledore, Harry's hero, be Voldemort's master?! Ha ha ha... it would be an interest. This would explain why people like Quirrel, and Crouch's son get into the School with ease... From ffionelin at yahoo.co.uk Wed Jan 31 23:30:52 2001 From: ffionelin at yahoo.co.uk (ffionelin at yahoo.co.uk) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:30:52 -0000 Subject: Daily Affirmations of the Good Ship R/H In-Reply-To: <959gug+tigu@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95a77c+paph@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11383 Penny - what's the website address for superquills - or the boards yo talk about for the R/H people? I'm a devoted Ron adorer [and have been traumatised for a while about the possiblity that he will - though most definately unwittingly - betray Harry in some way] - I'd love to join in your R/H world! Ffion --- In HPforGrownups at y..., zsenya at y... wrote: > Penny (and everyone) > > Well, bear in mind that Arabella and I created SugarQuill as an > extension of our own email obsessing and chat, and that this was all > conceived in good fun (and also so that we could archive all the fan > fic that we really like to read in one place, and also to encourage > writing in general). As I told one person who was posting under crude > names, since we pay for the site, we get to be dictators if we want. I > control the delete key, but I don't delete anything unless it is > crude, and off topic. > > That said...I will respond accordingly > > > > 1. Harry and Hermione is a ridiculous IMPOSSIBILITY. Harry is > allowed to date Cho, but will end up with Ginny. > > > > "Allowed"? I thought JKR was writing the books. :--) > > Yes, but we're writing the fan fic! > > > > 5. Ginny doesn't spend all her waking time giggling. > > > > How do you know? > > Well, there's pretty good evidence in Book IV that she doesn't. She > comforts Ron in the common room very calmly and maturely. > > > > 7.. NO ONE is allowed to say that Ron will turn bad (Well okay, > you > > > can say it - freedom of speech and all that. But we'll kick you > out.) > > > > Can I say Ron *could* betray Harry (even unwittingly)? There's a > > difference between speculating about possibilities and making firm > > predictions. I know I've never said "Ron will turn evil." I've > only > > speculated that there is the potential for him to betray Harry -- > either > > unwittingly (falling into a Voldemort trap -- seduced by riches, > etc.) > > or because he was motivated by a fleeting emotion at the exact wrong > > time (jealousy over Hermione perhaps). > > > > My perception is that the R/H camp seems quite bent on being sure > Ron > > receives *no* criticism of any kind (while liberally dishing it out > to > > the other characters I might add). Is this zero-tolerance policy > > sanctioned by the leadership of the Good Ship R/H? > > > > Penny > > You may say whatever you want - we welcome discussion! The "Ron will > turn evil" quote was created by ourselves as worst case scenario. We > do criticize Ron on our discussion boards occasionally. Recently, > everyone has been speculating about how he will respond if/when he > finds out about what Harry did with the TriWizard earnings. In our > little worlds, he also behaves like a pigheaded jerk before accepting > Harry dating his sister > > [Big Smiles here....] :) :) :) From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 31 23:35:46 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Shelley Stewart-Harris) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:35:46 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Daily Affirmations of the Good Ship R/H Message-ID: <011c01c08bde$917c0ac0$a751a7ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11384 Ffion wrote: <> Penny's not part of the R/H world. I am, though! LOL The site is called Sugar Quills, www.sugarquills.com and it's the one HP site that I visit every day, even if only to reread fic. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 31 23:35:51 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:35:51 -0600 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Daily Affirmations of the Good Ship R/H Message-ID: <011d01c08bde$9a0fc820$a751a7ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11385 Ffion wrote: <> Penny's not part of the R/H world. I am, though! LOL The site is called Sugar Quills, www.sugarquills.com and it's the one HP site that I visit every day, even if only to reread fic. Rina ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pennylin at swbell.net Wed Jan 31 23:43:01 2001 From: pennylin at swbell.net (Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:43:01 -0600 Subject: SHIP: R/H website References: <95a77c+paph@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3A78A305.196757FB@swbell.net> No: HPFGUIDX 11386 Hi -- ffionelin at yahoo.co.uk wrote: > Penny - what's the website address for superquills - or the boards yo > talk about for the R/H people? I'm a devoted Ron adorer [and have > been traumatised for a while about the possiblity that he will - > though most definately unwittingly - betray Harry in some way] - I'd > love to join in your R/H world! Ooh -- boy, do you have the *wrong* person! You must mean Zsenya. I'm uh .... the Captain of the H/H Cruiseliner and not by any means a Ron devotee. I would nonetheless pass on the website info if I had it, but I don't. I'm sure Zsenya or Kathy will respond in due time however. :--) Penny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 22:49:13 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:49:13 -0000 Subject: Dumbledore's true motives? In-Reply-To: <959hlc+625s@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <95a4p9+js0q@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11387 Gerreld:"And he was right-he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face." For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second, Harry was sure he imagined it, " "I was just interested in what other people thought about the reaction of Dumbledore to the fact that Voldemort was no longer incapable of hurting Harry." I believe Dumbledore's reaction wasn't connected with Voldemort's new found ability to touch Harry; it was to the fact Voldemort took Harry's blood to restore himself. You left out part of the quote; the look of triumph came as Dumbledore was examining the spot on Harry's arm Wormtail stabbed for blood. Dumbledore may sense in this Voldemort's ultimate mistake, the mistake that will lead to Voldemort's defeat. Voldemort's made plenty of mistakes so far, beginning with the way he tried to kill Harry and almost destroyed himself to underestimating his opponents. Hubris will destroy him in the end. by the way, welcom to the group! From cad2 at hotmail.com Wed Jan 31 23:22:17 2001 From: cad2 at hotmail.com (cad2 at hotmail.com) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:22:17 -0000 Subject: ADMIN: Suggestions (& actions) to decrease list volume In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <95a6n9+pj4e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11388 Ok, please forgive me, I'm quite new to the HP discussions. I've figured out what shipping is (after some very confusing to a newbie posts) but when you say "evidence in canon" what do you mean? The actual series of books? (rather than FF? or speculation?) I feel like I'm missing something here ... Cindy the new HP addict > > "SHIP: Snape/Dumbledore -- evidence in canon" > "FF: Why I think ASA is the Best Fic Ever" ::wink:: > > Hope this helps in managing your lists. Again, that email address is > hpforgrownups-owner at egroups.com > > Cheers, and I hope everybody has a lovely February, > > --John From SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com Wed Jan 31 23:18:48 2001 From: SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com (Kelley) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:18:48 -0000 Subject: R/H, H/G, OBHWF, M-O-U-S-E Message-ID: <95a6go+j0q5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11389 Thoughts on some shipping threads: Pairing Harry with Ginny was never a 'consolation prize' to my mind. If I'm remembering correctly, I saw an H/G pairing consciously before I saw R/H. Saw it in CoS, once Ginny got to HW, and was given *something* to do. I have no idea what JKR is planning; this is just my hunch (for no air-tight reasons at all). Yes, Ginny is not developed yet. There are three books to go, though, guys. Moody wasn't well-developed before GoF in which he figured very strongly. Granted that was a long book, JKR had plenty of space in which to develop him. I still contend that all it will take to make Ginny a well-developed character is one book. She's had more 'page-time' than Cho, yet we all saw her as a romantic interest for Harry, albeit just a crush in which he didn't know anything about her. I agree, Harry ~is~ part of the Weasley family, and Hermione too, to an extent, so pairing these characters off isn't necessary to show that. I do not believe that JKR will not go in -some- romantic direction with any of the characters, though. With the similarities that can, and have been, drawn between the Marauder generation and the generation of today, some romantic pairing seems a given to me... I also strongly contend that if anyone can make OBHWF happen without sap, it's JKR. Cliche, maybe; but perhaps this scenario will serve her purposes. We don't know yet. The characters seem ripe with cliched characteristics to me, so I wouldn't put any cliche past JKR. I will say that JKR has avoided sap and schmaltz thus far wonderfully well. I venture to think most would agree with me on that. Now, given that, why would anyone assume if JKR goes for the 'tied up in a bow' ending, that she will do so sappily? I can see her guiding our realizations of whom the characters 'end up with' the same way she has handled so many other bits already: Mrs. Weasley hugging Harry while he tries to choke back long withheld tears; Sirius' reaction when Harry tells them about J & L coming out of Vold's wand and speaking to him; the *Kiss; Harry seeing J & L, et al, in Erised; on and on. To me, these situations were handled with a minimum of sap, so I'm thinking that if big-happy-family is where this will all end up, JKR certainly won't choose that time to go heavy on the saccharine. She may go this route in such a way that it will seem 'right', even to those who right now may think this would be the most disappointing ending of all. Additionally, if JKR really does not want to ever return to HP once the series is done, giving the impression of Happily Ever After for the characters would be a good way to avoid the pleas she'll surely get to continue. If she gives enough hints as to what the future will be of the characters, enough sense of closure for the characters and the story in general, fans should be relatively satisfied. Thoughts? Kelley From rina at love-productions.com Wed Jan 31 23:58:10 2001 From: rina at love-productions.com (Rina Stewart) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:58:10 -0600 Subject: Sugar Quill correction Message-ID: <014901c08be1$b09f3460$a751a7ac@shelley> No: HPFGUIDX 11390 Damn, like it's not enough that I accidentally sent the message *from the wrong addy, I *sent you to the wrong addy. LOL It's www.sugarquill.com Not plural. Rina making sure she clicks the right sending name ******************************** "Let's practice what we preach, and with the acceptance that we expect from others, let's stop being so damn judgmental and crucifying everyone who doesn't fit in to our boxed-in perception of what is right." --Gillian Anderson "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is mystery. Today is a gift." --Eleanor Roosevelt Be an Angel at www.love-productions.com/gilliangels Chase Rainbows at mrs.spooky.tripod.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From jferer at yahoo.com Wed Jan 31 23:23:01 2001 From: jferer at yahoo.com (Jim Ferer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:23:01 -0000 Subject: Is Draco Redeemable? (was Re: The Death of Cedric) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <95a6ol+m4g0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 11391 Sister Mary Lunatic:"Is anyone else seriously bothered by the fact that Draco comes in to Harry's train compartment at the end of GoF and actually TAUNTS him about the death of Cedric?" I sure am, and I'm learning something about human nature or something by his fic transformation into leather sex god. It drives me nuts especially when he so often gets paired up with Ginny. Or Hermione! Yeah, right! "You foul! You EVIL!" Right on, Hermione. SML:" In a realistic world, I would not expect Draco to return to Hogwarts for the next year. His father has been identified by Harry as an unrepentant Death Eater. Would you send your child to the enemy's stronghold for education? Draco, or Lucius for that matter, may not realize Lucius has been ID'd by Harry. Hard to believe, but maybe. Lucius may send Draco back because he still wants to put on a respectable face to the world. SML:"Or maybe Lucius will USE Draco as a spy in Dumbledore's camp..." And Dumbledore, knowing it, may let it happen to his own benefit. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer." -- Don Corleone. SML:" My prediction for the future is that at some point Harry is going to save Draco's life, and Draco will be put into the same position as Snape -- hating a Potter, yet indebted to him. I could see Draco reluctantly turning away from The Dark Lord for some reason, yet resenting the reason why, for the rest of his life." Very likely, and write up JKR's alley to do it; and then Draco heads to Gladrags for his tight leather pants with the metal studs. From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 31 15:44:36 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:44:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Snape and Hygiene Message-ID: <01c08b9c$b6ccad80$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11431 >>As a matter of fact, if I was a witch, I'd be >>only too happy to be able to call my boy Severus Snape Jr. But his father >>would have to get used to taking baths first ;-))) > >> Monika >A quick word in Snape's favor [My jaw drops] Oh, dear, I *did* make it sound as if I was criticising Snape! How could I! Bad Winky will iron her hands for criticising Master Severus! > Just because the guy's hair is 'greasy', in Harry's point of view, > doesn't mean that the man never takes a bath. I know someone who washes their hair daily and >it's still limp and leaning towards oily. You're right. I know such a person myself. No matter what the poor girl was doing, her hair was greasy after a couple of hours. > I can't imagine that Sev would keep his position for long > if he smelled worse than his potions. Like a lot of people, he's on life long quest to find the perfect shampoo. Anyway, he doesn't seem to care much about how he looks. And finding proper shampoo shouldn't be too difficult for a wizard. But I call off what I said - I'd like Severus to be my son's father (if I was witch) if he'd only do something with his hair and sallow skin. And I do believe he's taking baths! May Winky bandage her hands now? Pretty please... >And I agree - Severus is a terrific name. Your taste is as good as Katarzyna's . I'm proud of you both! Monika Z. (The Snape fan) From monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl Wed Jan 31 15:52:08 2001 From: monika.zaboklicka at csl.com.pl (Monika Zaboklicka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:52:08 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] pronunciation help: Draco Message-ID: <01c08b9d$c4335a40$0800a8c0@Serwer> No: HPFGUIDX 11432 >DRAY-ko or DRAH-ko? It's DRAH-ko for my Slav tounge. Monika Z.