Wizarding aristocracy (rather long)

[Marvin Long]

No: HPFGUIDX 9786

--- In HPforGrownups at egroups.com, "Ebony " <ebonyink at h...> wrote:

> 
> Exactly.  Perhaps magical society is the last bastion of feudalism, 
> of a sort?  The values and mores seem to be different from those of 
> modern Western culture... I'd say they're more conservative.

At least amongst the Slythery aristocratic types; on the other hand,
the world of wizards is obviously also a world of creativity and
eccentricity in some respects as well.  I'm reminded a bit of the
world of academia in an old, prestigious university, where a rigid
social structure and a freedom to explore and create are in some ways
combined.  Traditions and formalities must be upheld in order to
preserve the sense that members of the U are superior to the rest of
society (the muggles); but on the other hand you've lots of restless
minds wanting to break out of the mold.  Also all the industries in
the Wizarding world seem geared towards either supporting schools like
Hogwarts or the activities of post-graduate magical research.  The
adult wizards we know of seem to be engaged either in studying magic
for its own sake or running the institutions which govern how people
are allowed to study and engage in magic.  I wonder if there's
anything in the magical world to correspond to mass industry.

> 
> This ties in with the threads about "Number of Students in 
> Hogwarts".  It's one of the more popular debates--stick around.  
> There are Large Scale Hogwarts advocates, while others lean towards
a 
> smaller school.  If Hogwarts can hold 1000+ students, I'm very 
> comfortable with it being the only wizarding school for the UK and 
> Ireland (which seems to be part of the same magical jurisdiction, 
> judging from Seamus Finnegan and the officiants of the Quidditch 
> World Cup).  
> 
> I lean more toward a small Hogwarts/small wizarding world myself.  
> Listmom Penny gives some great arguments for this.  This was a pre-
> fandom assumption of mine,  if only because the interpersonal 
> relations within this milieu seem *so* intimate.  Also, Hagrid does 
> make the statement "if we hadn't married Muggles we'd have died 
> out".  

That's a pretty good point, but if the population is too small, then I
wonder what the point is of having banks like Gringotts; or how can
Gilderoy Lockhart make a living as a professional celebrity?  (Maybe
he can't, which is why he took the DADA job?)
 
On the other hand, I'm willing to bet that Hogwarts has the ability to
expand and contract to accomodate fluctuations in the student body...

[snip]  Club member Rita 
> Winston (also known as Catlady) has some of the *best* theories
about 
> magical societies throughout the world.  Among other topics, she
and 
> I have talked in the past about the effects that events like the 
> Spanish Inquisition, the conquest of the Americas, and the 
> transatlantic slave trade might have had on the development of 
> Hogwarts-like (what I mean is structured) educational systems... 
> she'd be a great person to talk to, and I really hope some of her 
> posts from the Yahoo! group makes it into the appropriate FAQ.

I hope I run across these as I wander through the archives, then.  I'd
love to know what magic schools are like in China, say, or Central
America or Africa.  If you go to a magical school sequestered away in
the Yucutan, do you end up worrying about quetzocoatl (sp?) instead of
basilisks?

> Hmm.  The only poor family we've seen thus far are the Weasleys,
and 
> they're not destitute.  I'm still forming my opinions on this.  In 
> most children's literature, groups such as the socioeconomic 
> underclass (aka "the dregs of society") seem to be marginalized out 
> of the picture.
> 
> What do you read between the lines?  

Well, I don't think the Weasleys really qualify as poor.  Malfoy
probably has a point when he accuses them of having more children then
they can afford (I hope for Mrs. Weasley's sake that magical midwifery
is effective)...but it's not because Mr. Weasley isn't well-employed. 
Rather, the family values quantity of love over wealth; and I'm sure
Harry compares them to the Dursleys and figures, "Heck, who can blame
them?"

> Most of the Hogwarts kids seem 
> to have come from solidly middle class backgrounds.  Well, I work 
> with kids in a city where an estimated 50% of families live below
the 
> poverty line... and I don't mean the Weasleys.  Would such kids in 
> England get letters from Hogwarts, if they had magical ability? 
What 
> if they had no home for the letters to be sent to?  What if their 
> parents could not afford the books/robes/wand?  Are there funds 
> available?  Or is this kid, magical though they might be, just out
of 
> luck?

I really don't know, and I suspect that JKR won't really address the
issue...except in one instance, that of Tom Riddle himself.  I think
we can assume that as an orphan he really couldn't afford all the gear
that attending Hogwarts requires, yet he managed to go anyway. 
Perhaps the wizarding world has funds to help poor wizardlings until
they're old enough to make an income. Or perhaps poor kids with wizard
talent get ignored unless that talent is great enough to be truly
noticed or to threaten the Muggle world if it goes unguided (I think
Riddle's talent would qualify).  Maybe Riddle mugged muggles during
summer vacations....
 
But wait..maybe my memory is failing...I seem to recall the in CoS
Riddle is described as being an orphan, but in GoF he's described as
murdering his wealthy parents....What have I missed?  I don't have a
book near me...help!


> Again, great post!  Thanks for giving me something else to think 
> about besides shipping.  ;-)

Shucks, ma'am, 't weren't nuthin'!
 
> >(ps, what's your major/discipline, that you get to study
> > history of rhetoric?)
> 
> Thanks so much for the information--that was a good start and I may
e-
> mail you off list later if you don't mind.  I'm in a combined 
> M.A./Ph.D program in English Composition and Rhetoric (with a minor 
> in Creative Writing)... so the class was required.  In undergrad,
the 
> original intention was not to become an academic, so I took the 
> secondary education track rather than the humanities one when
earning 
> my English undergrad degree.  Tsk, tsk, tsk...

Cool.  I'll do my best to answer any questions you want to throw my
way.  It might also help for you to brush up on Greek history from the
Persian wars through Alex the Great...a lot of Greek writers refer to
the events of this tumultous period (the way modern writers in the US
are always referring to Vietnam and the world wars) and it helps to
have an idea what they're talking about.

Cheers!

marvin