"Fanfic Tangent" (ship warning)

[Ebony Elizabeth Thomas]

No: HPFGUIDX 10028

Hi Elizabeth (who has a nice name... ;) and all:


>>  << As I've said, we H/Hers are steeling ourselves for impending doom... 
>>oh,
>I mean, the Inevitable R/H Pairing.>>
>
>Doom?  Goodness! I hope it's not that awful for you.  I really mean that.

Just a lighthearted joke.  But as I've told H/H friends, I'm really very 
stubborn about romance subplots.  Once I make up my mind in the middle of a 
novel or a series about my opinion, there's no changing it.  So I'll enjoy 
the books, of course, but just as CoS is the book in the series I re-read 
the least, passages that make me grit my teeth will be duly skimmed over.

Some may say that's wrong.  Oh, well... that's just the way I am.  There's a 
Lucy Maud Montgomery novel that I thoroughly enjoyed... but the very last 
sentence of the book contained a very offensive racial slur.  So that ever 
afterward colored my enjoyment of the book... that particular novel is the 
one of the 30 I own that I refuse to re-read.  I've been jarred by various 
aspects of the narration while reading Alcott, Wilder, and others.

I really don't expect to see much romance for romance's sake in the canon.  
If it's there, it like everything else will tie into the main plot.  JMO.

>  < All right, Switzerland!  I enjoy both R/H fics and H/H fics as well. >
>
>And I enjoy het fics as well as slash fics.  I actually find the ones that
>deal with minor characters most intriguing.

Me too.  That's why I'm writing from a minor character's POV.  The first 
fanfiction I ever read was Hercules and Xena--most of it happened to be 
slash.

>
>And maybe, just maybe, Harrykins and Hermikins and Ronniekins *all* don't 
>belong together.  Or maybe Harrykins and Ronniekins belong together.  But 
>it is all up to Ms. Rowlings, whom I believe is the Goddess of the 
>Potterverse.

I agree with Elizabeth!  But--again--fanon and canon are two different 
things.  Once an author publishes his or her work, he/she cannot control the 
impressions and conclusions that others draw from it.  As a creative writer 
and an English grad student, this took me a very long time to accept.


>I'm very, very sorry that you've lost peers and friends to suicide.  I very 
>recently lost my mother the same way.  It hurts in a way that nothing else 
>does. I'm still not in favor of banning anything anyone's written, but I do 
>understand how much it must hurt you.

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that!  I'm no censor, but I just think that suicide 
fics are in extremely poor taste.  Again, JMO.

><Killing off the viewpoint character, unless there is a good reason to  do
>so, is a cop-out in most cases.  This is why I don't think Harry  will die 
>in
>Book 7.  Or if he dies, he may not stay dead... etc.>
>It does occur in folklore/mythology, which is what I believe Ms. Rowling is 
>writing.

I know it occurs in myth (having studied it last semester), but it doesn't 
make for the best modern literature.  Most modern tragic heroes (Holden 
Caulfield) differs greatly from the classic tragic hero (MacBeth).  The 
classical hero struggles primarily with himself; the modern hero struggles 
with his place in the world.

The problems with killing off your viewpoint narrator in modern lit are 
manifold.  It takes a master creative writing teacher like Orson Scott Card 
or Nancy Kress to explain this fully.  As a teen, I had a horrible habit of 
killing off characters because I didn't know what to do with them (much like 
Diana did in the Anne of Green Gables Story Club).  It's much more 
indicative of a subtle genius, and much more beneficial to humankind's 
collective canon of literature, to avoid killing off the character.  The 
first few times around (as in archetypal myths) it's effective.  At this 
point in time, it's usually tragicomic at best.

Again, perhaps JKR is writing in the tradition of Shakespeare et. al.  Maybe 
Harry-as-Hamlet will end up dead along with Hermione-as-Ophelia and 
Voldemort-as-Claudius.  Maybe Ron-as-Horatio will live to write the 
epilogue.

I wrote:
>< because despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are 
>first and foremost *friends*.  Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone 
>ever considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down?>

Elizabeth responded:
>Why would he do that? Do you really think it's acceptable for a person to 
>sacrifice their feelings for another in order to let the "Hero" get the 
>girl?

Of course it's not.  However--read Parker's "Friend Enough?"  Can you 
imagine canon Ron doing something like that *if* that was the case?

I wrote:
<*That* is a problem in the friendship between the two boys that has nothing 
to do with Hermione.  Both of them, in some measure, wants to be the other.>
Elizabeth responded:
>Started to disagree, then noticed the "in some measure," so ... okay.

I just had to restate that belief of mine.  It's one conclusion I draw from 
reading GoF.  I still believe that.

>Hermione doesn't "get" Harry because she's clever or witty or any of the 
>many other nice things she is.

Wow.  I've never seen an H/Her argue this.  Hmmm... (heading back to the 
mothership to run some lab tests)


>As I tend to identify with Harry, I bristle at the suggestion that *anyone*
>should "get" him.  Poor boy!  He's not a prize, you know, he's a person!  
>And
>to force him to spend the rest of his life with a bossy, know-it-all,
>stifling person (and that *is* the way Ms. Rowlings has described Hermione 
>so
>far) is not exactly fair to Harry! Henpecked!Harry totally squicks me.

LOL!  I think Penny addressed this already, so I'll leave it alone.  So 
you'd rather have Ron henpecked?  (I'm serious... I'm now laughing so hard 
that tears are falling from my eyes!)  I'm assuming a lot here, but I take 
it you don't like Hermione too much... why, then, should Ron have to suffer 
with her?

>Forcing Harry to spend the rest of his life with anyone is really not very 
>kind to him.  I most object to the H/H pairing because I consider it a 
>"shotgun wedding" for Poor Harry. Why can't Harry be independent and happy?

Shotgun wedding?  When's the baby due?  (Giggling again.)  I know that a lot 
of poor quality teenage fics have Hermione pregnant, but (to quote Hermione 
herself) *honestly*.

Harry should be independent if that's what he wants.  I tended to agree with 
this statement in the beginning.  But--and this is something that the more 
prominent H/H writers had to bring me around to--Harry enjoys spending time 
with the Weasleys.  Private and introspective though he might be, do you 
really think the Boy Who Lived wants to live his life as a Lone Ranger?

>I agree that Hermione is one of the brains of the operation.  Ron is 
>another brain of the operation, although of a different (but equally 
>important) sort. Harry's blessed to have them both to rely on as friends.

Why is it that whenever I compliment Hermione, it's seen to be at Ron's 
expense?  Of course Harry's blessed to have them both!

I'm also a huge advocate of a balanced Friendship between the Three.  Most 
H/Hers are.  I've heard the other side argue either that Harry and Hermione 
have a sibling relationship, or that Harry and Hermione are not as close as 
Ron-Hermione or Ron-Harry.  (Anything to make sure that no romantic interest 
can develop!)  Sorry.  The friendship is a Venn Diagram.  The Three have 
things in common as a triple, things in common in pairs, and unique 
characteristics and interests.

><<Why don't any of these arguments take her feelings into account? >>
>
>I don't believe they should, but neither do I believe that Ron's feelings
>should be taken into account.  The books are written from Harry's point of
>view.  Unless Harry is a psychic empath or Hermione declares her feelings
>directly to Harry, we can't really know what Hermione's feelings are, nor 
>are
>they the focus of the story.

Au contraire.  (Hope I spelled that right--my foreign language is Spanish, 
not French.)  Hermione's feelings on everything from house-elves to pets 
have played an integral part in the plot up until now.  I could go on and on 
about how this could affect the main plot of Harry's struggle with 
Voldemort.  As a matter of fact, when dreaming up post-Hogwarts scenarios, 
the only way I could see any romantic interaction within the trio (R/Ha, 
H/H, or R/He) *not* affecting the main narrative is if none existed at all.  
As JKR seems as if she won't resist the temptation to insert it in--it's 
realistic--it occurs in many, many platonice friendships--it will in some 
way, shape or form affect the major narrative.

>  <R/Hers insist that the Yule Ball events prove that she had tamped- down
>feelings for Ron. My take on it is that the whole business left  a rather
>nasty taste in her mouth re: both of her best friends.>
>
>I agree.  I believe that's why she'd look elsewhere (even into her 
>adulthood)
>for a romantic partnership.

So if Ron can't have her, Harry can't either, right?  ;-)  Yeah, I think 
perhaps all three might look elsewhere if it wasn't for three things:  1) 
Impending war speeds along romance... that's a proven fact.  2)  I'm an HP 
Small World advocate... and successful modern marriages are made up of 
people with some common interests.  3) It's fun to matchmake!

<<Let's wait to see what Hermione thinks in canon.>>
>
>I hope you are not holding your breath.

Hee hee!  Yeah, that must be it.  I'm H/H because a full supply of oxygen 
hasn't reached my brain since July 8, 2000.  And I'll be "Waiting to Exhale" 
until 2002 or whenever Jo decides to release book 5.

>Even if Hermione does make it evident that she is romantically inclined 
>towards Harry, that does not create
>an H/H ship.

It sure doesn't!  I agree with you there.  But do you really think that 
Harry will just shrug off her feelings and say, "Tough cookies... I have a 
world to save?"  *That* would really be Hamlet-esque.  :-)

Again, unless JKR avoids romance subplots altogether, they will be a bit 
sticky.  And they will tie into the master narrative.  I said I wouldn't put 
money on R/H... but if any romance occurs, I'd be willing to put my money 
where my mouth is.

>I have a feeling that Harry will not be involved romantically with anyone 
>at
>the end of the books and that he may have considerable difficulty in 
>forming
>relationships with anyone, even in the future, unless he gets some really
>good therapy. <snip> You're very probably hooking Hermione up with someone 
>who's suffering from
>PTSD.  It could be dicey for them both.

That's why no adult H/Her with good sense puts them together at the 
immediate conclusion of the war.  I agree with the PTSD idea completely... 
Jim Ferer AKA Dadgrid converted me to this way of thinking... I buy it, I 
buy it!  In my own fic (this is not a spoiler), Harry disappears for three 
years the second Voldemort is defeated, and rumor has it that he is dead.

However, just as Harry could fight off the dreadful Imperius curse at the 
tender age of 14 (a curse that destroyed the lives of fully matured and 
capable wizards), I don't think he'll live the remainder of his life alone.

>My ship pet peeve: the odd insistence that any of us are necessarily and 
>unequivocally right in our ship beliefs, regardless of Ms. Rowling's
>statements and/or canon writings. I must reiterate that I believe that Ms. 
>Rowlings is the Goddess of the Potterverse and I accept her scenario
>(whatever it may be) in spite of my own hopes and wishes.

If my shipmates and I were unequivocally right, there would be nothing to 
debate.  I also accept Rowling's scenario.  But as in the case of LMA, I 
don't have to like it.  Odd though my sentiment may seem, it is my belief 
and one that I'm free to keep.  :-)

Hope I didn't sound too belligerent.  Kathy can tell you I have nothing but 
genuine caring and concern for my friends who are suffering from R/H 
Disorder!  (Just kidding, Ron fans... sheathe those claws!  Lower those 
pistols!  And by all means--put down those darn pitchforks!  LOL!)

All the best,

Ebony

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Ebony AKA AngieJ
(H/H Special Agent, First Class)

"'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily.  'I thought two 
Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet 
campaign.  You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin 
upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down 
everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.'

"There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry 
sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on 
Ron's face."

--from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed.

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