Shipping news

[Ebony Elizabeth Thomas]

No: HPFGUIDX 10034

Hey, Kathy and list...

Penny wrote:
>> >I think Ebony was suggesting that *if* Ron knew (or Hermione told Ron) 
>>that her feelings were for Harry and *if* Ron knew or suspected that Harry 
>>returned (or *could* return) Hermione's feelings, would Ron not be a big 
>>enough person to put his own feelings for Hermione to the side, 
>>considering that he is first & foremost friends with them both?  IMO, it 
>>is not only acceptable but a show that a person is a bigger person than to 
>>let petty jealousy stand in the way of a budding romance & a continued 
>>friendship amongst the three of them.

Kathy replied:
>Yes, I buy this, BUT what I can't stand is the idea that Ron somehow 
>doesn't "deserve" Hermione.  He shouldn't have to hide his feelings any 
>more than Hermione should.  To say that Ron should forget about Hermione 
>and go out with Lavender or someone else who likes him is just as bad as 
>saying the Hermione should forget about Harry (assuming, of course, that 
>she actually likes Harry, which I don't think she does!) and date Ron 
>instead.

Kathy knows that we agree on several issues.  One is the fact that we both 
hate Ron/Lavender fics.  What on earth?  Also, Ron should not have to put 
his feelings on the back burner.  I agree with that too.  If he likes 
Hermione, and *if* Hermione returns those feelings, then they should go for 
it.  I'll even grin over those scene in canon (ducks away from Penny, who 
tosses a rubber Quidditch club in my direction).

However...

To speak of women in terms of reward and punishment is troublesome.  I was 
intrigued by Elizabeth's post about the HP books following certain mythic 
structures.  I agree that Hermione is not the classical heroine of the 
novels.  She is not perfect, she is not the most beautiful, and she has 
flaws.  However, it can't be denied that she is the female protagonist.  Of 
15,000 fics, she is prominently featured in 2/3 to 3/4 of them (many of 
these having nothing to do with romance).  Many of my older female students 
adore her and totally relate to her.

Hermione should be neither Ron's nor Harry's nor Viktor's reward.  She is 
not a prize to be won.  She's a modern, independent girl who should be free 
to choose.  Perhaps she'll choose none of these boys growing into men.  
Perhaps she'll choose women.  Perhaps she'll choose to be "wedded to her 
art" (Trina, smile--there's some Emily for you!).  But as the women who have 
responded to the housewife thread have stated... she should be free to 
choose.

For most of history, women and many minority groups did not have this 
choice.  I think that Hermione should be free.

>Though I'm strongly R/H (did you know that? (:  ), I agree that what 
>matters are Hermione's feelings in the matter.  Where I differ most 
>strongly from H/H people is that I think she actually does like Ron, and I 
>think there is just as much evidence for that as H/H people think there is 
>evidence she likes Harry.  I agree that the fact that Ron likes her is not 
>evidence enough to say that she likes him.  Nor is the fact that Viktor 
>Krum clearly likes her evidence that she has real feelings for him, even if 
>she does have something of a relationship with him.  Hermione, like most 14 
>year old girls, is an enigma at the moment.

Kathy, I agree with everything you said (except of course that she returns 
Ron's feelings... no surprises there, huh?).  This is why I really enjoy 
debating ship preferences with you.  You're R/H and I'm H/H, but we have 
lots of fun going back and forth, don't we?


Elizabeth wrote:
> >I most object to the H/H pairing because I consider it a "shotgun 
>wedding" for Poor Harry.

And Kathy responded:
>Well, that's a new take on the issue!  But I think it goes along with what 
>I said earlier about Ron and Hermione.  Saying Harry "should" be with 
>Hermione because she "likes" him (which, did I mention, I don't necessarily 
>think she does) is just as bad as saying that Hermione should be with Ron 
>just because he likes her.

Right.  I agree with this as well.  We H/Hers feel that the two Hs are well 
suited, and it would be an ideal match, but only if both parties involved 
want it.

>....if we *did* know exactly what Ron and Hermione were thinking, it would 
>sure take the fun out of the speculation.  The fact is, we
>will never see enough of their relationship (whatever it is now and becomes 
>later, friendship or romance) to really know exactly what's going on 
>between them, because we see things from Harry's POV and he doesn't see 
>everything. Which, IMO, makes it more fun.

Again, this is why I like chatting with you, Kathy!  It is fun, isn't it?  
It's also counterproductive to participate in a debate, and then because you 
don't like some statements from the other side to declare that the debate 
itself is illegitimate.  What in the world?

>Those of us with strong preference often say things like "those 
>misguided__/__ shippers" and tease each other, but I don't think any of us 
>truly believe that our humble opinions outweigh JKR's universe.  As Ebony 
>pointed out recently, ship preferences often have nothing to do with the 
>canon, and I am sure that those H/H people will still be living in their 
>little fantasy world even after JKR has shown that R/H is the way to go  
>(see?  that was teasing! <g>).

Hey!  I saw that!  That's OK... I hope JKR pulls a Sirius Black on you guys 
in the romance department.  I'll send you an e-mail after reading the book 
in which it occurs:  "Hey Kathy... hear that sound?  It's the sound of a 
million R/H Disorder sufferers weeping all over the globe."  ;-)

>P.S. When I made those comments on the PoU list last week, I didn't mean we 
>had to start up the shipper discussions again right away, but I sure am 
>glad they're back, since I find them so much fun!

I do too, Kathy.  I do too.

BTW, could someone send me a comprehensive summary of the R/H Theories via 
private e-mail?  I'd be ever so grateful if you did.  Thanks!

Best,

Ebony

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Ebony AKA AngieJ
(H/H Special Agent, First Class)

"'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily.  'I thought two 
Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet 
campaign.  You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin 
upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down 
everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.'

"There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry 
sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on 
Ron's face."

--from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed.

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