From the destroyer H/H (shamelessly long)

[Ebony Elizabeth Thomas]

No: HPFGUIDX 10085

Hi Kathy and all:

I had a great reply to this all written out earlier this afternoon, and AOL 
logged me offline.  Trust them for that.

All quotes save one are attributed to the original poster.  :-)

This post is just announcing the Second Coming.  We have an all-new round of 
theories, fics, and other goodies bubbling in our various cauldrons and are 
prepared to sign up a fresh crop of H/H recruits.  (Yes, our previous 
efforts *did* win recruits.)  Think that FITD and Freud were the outer 
limits of our collective obsessiveness?  The Ferris Wheel Theory, The Travel 
vs. Home Theory, and all sorts of other goodies are headed to a HP4GU list 
near you.  We're just biding our time.  ;-)

In the meanwhile, here goes nothing....

--------------------------------
>Elizabeth wrote:
> >And maybe, just maybe, Harrykins and Hermikins and Ronniekins *all* don't 
>belong together.  Or maybe Harrykins and Ronniekins belong together.  But 
>it is all up to Ms. Rowlings, whom I believe is the Goddess of the 
>Potterverse.

And Kathy responded:
>Yes, it's possible...but it would be so much more interesting to have some 
>romantic tension, of whatever kind, in the Trio.  Even if they all do end 
>up with other people (which I think would be kind of sad in a way).  They 
>have so much together that they can't really share with anyone else.
>

Me (Ebony):
You know, I never thought I'd agree with an R/Her on so much.  Of course, 
deep down I really think Kathy is an H/H Prodigal, who will eventually tire 
of R/H Disorder and come on home.  :-)

I wrote earlier:
> >Despite all of our ship debating, Harry, Ron, and Hermione are first and 
>foremost *friends*.  Ron has feelings for Hermione. Has anyone ever
> >considered that he *might* step aside or tamp those feelings down?>

Kathy replied:
>I think I responded to this once already in another post, but I thought of 
>something else.  I think it's entirely possible that Ron would do such a 
>thing <selective snip> BUT it would certainly not be right away and it 
>would certainly still affect the friendship of the Trio.  I think that this 
>is what I was trying to say in reponse to Cassie yesterday.  Even if Ron 
>did date Hermione and then "move on", as she put it, I think it would still 
>affect they way the three of them interacted, even if Hermione and Harry 
>never got together.  It would have to.

Me:
Again, I agree with all of the above.  Let's hear it one time for the 
InterShip Cooperation Treaty!

In private, some of the H/Hers call it the Ron Problem.  What to do with 
Ron?  It doesn't help matters that Cassie has converted a lot of H/Hers to 
Reformed Dracoism.  It's fun finding creative ways and means to deal with 
Ron.  Sometimes he ends up happy, sometimes he doesn't.  And sometimes he 
ends up dead.

It's fanfic.  We can do what we want.  :-)

>Not sure who said this (sorry!):
> >I must add to this that I don't believe any Object of Desire exists in 
>Ms. Rowlings' Potterverse.  Hermione as written in canon is not flawless 
>(no, she's not!), and Ginny is um, uncertain (yes, she is!) and most 
>Objects of Desire are quite deliberately described as such.

Kathy responded:
>I agree!  We shippers have put a lot of our own spin on the characters and 
>our perceptions of them (often helped by the fanfic).  That's part of the 
>reason that I wanted to try to stay as true to the canon as possible in 
>mine.  (Obviously I have put my own spin on things, adds Kathy quickly, 
>before Penny jumps in, but I am trying to keep it plausible and true to the 
>characters as I see them in the canon.) Not that there's anything wrong 
>with this, mind you, but I think it sometimes confuses things when people 
>start discussing the canon.

Me:
This is true.  However, no ship can be automatically extrapolated from 
canon.  Most of the H/Hers I know have no interest in fanfic and do not 
participate in online fandom... their ideas have been formed from canon and 
from canon alone.

::::::Everyone goggles in shock that Harry and Hermione's protests over Rita 
Skeeter's articles didn't dismantle the ship!::::::

For the FAQ committee, I had the pleasure of adding the posts from the GoF 
release weekend into the database.  I still remember a ship comment from one 
of Penny's post-GoF posts:  "Actually, it wasn't as bad as we thought it was 
going to be."  :-)  Most H/Hers were steeling themselves for H/C, as the 
pre-release publicity and teasers seemed to indicate this.  The R/H tension 
(on Ron's part) wasn't nearly as anticipated on this list.

The woman who wrote *Prisoner of Azkaban* is still at the helm of this 
series.  I trust that her quills will always be sharp, and never run out of 
ink.

I also trust that she isn't done shocking our socks off.

Elizabeth wrote:
> >I agree that Hermione is one of the brains of the operation.  Ron is 
>another brain of the operation, although of a different (but equally 
>important) sort.  Harry's blessed to have them both to rely on as friends.

Kathy replied:
>I agree!  And I think that one of the main reasons I moved away from
>half-hearted H/H shipperdom into full-fledged R/H shipperdom is that fact 
>that many (not all) H/H shippers sell Ron short, IMHO.  MOst H/H fics tend 
>to set up H and H as this perfect couple and then kind of throw Ron in as 
>comic relief, if they show him at all.  I think Ron as a character has much 
>more depth than most people give him credit for...

Me:
Very, *very* big sigh.  And sigh again.

In my original response post to Flourish, I wrote three positive things 
about Hermione's character:  1)  she's the female protagonist, 2) she's the 
brains of the operation (quote from Parker, Ron's PoV), and 3) she's the 
glue that holds the Three together (quote from Parker, again PoV is Ron's).

In contrast, I wrote a LONG paragraph that said some very nice things about 
Ron and some not-so-nice things about my favorite two characters.  That 
paragraph didn't survive the thread beyond my post--but the one nice thing I 
said about Hermione did.  Why is that?

Hermione *is* the brains of the operation.  Plain and simple.  You can't 
deny that any more than you can deny the fact that Dumbledore adores sweets 
and the Weasley kids have freckles and red hair.  But when I made that 
observation, I wasn't trying to take anything away from Ron!  Quite the 
contrary.

Many of the best H/H writers *do* deal with Ron.  Just perhaps not to the 
satisfaction of some.  Cassie's already explained her Ron in DD/DS... here's 
Ron's role in a few fics with H/H tension or subplot:

********************************************************************
(WARNING:  POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR PoU, ASA, and SoT ARE BELOW!)

--In PoU, Ron is Hermione's Hogwarts sweetheart *and* first love.
--In ASA, there is an extremely poignant Ron-centered chapter.
--In SoT, Ron is full of wit and sarcasm and laughs... and if John doesn't 
kill him off, may have a love interest that could put Hermione in the shade.
--Rhysenn has an excellent new post-Hogwarts fic coming out that deals with 
Ron very well.

*********************************************************************

The "you guys don't deal with Ron" challenge was what inspired me to write 
*Trouble in Paradise* in the first place.  Not only do I deal with Ron... 
he's at the center of things!  He's got all of the dreams-come-true I could 
extrapolate for him out of canon at this point.  He's got Hermione and has 
had her for their entire adult life.  Harry (my absolute favorite character, 
Elizabeth ;-)) is very much at the margins of my R/H fic.

After TiP, one of the ideas I have is to write H/H gone wrong as honestly as 
I can.  Of course, it'll have a much different tone.  ;-) As for Harry 
having PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder)-- *many* H/H writers of all 
ages have already thought of that possibility.  I'd definitely deal with 
that in any H/H fic... in fact, TiP's backstory deals with it quite 
extensively, as you'll see.

Lori *definitely* deals with PTSD in PoU/STNE, and Penny and Carole will be 
heading that way soon as well.  I've also discussed possible collaborations 
with Jim Ferer and John Walton, two writers whose work I especially like.

Our ship is home to a lot of fun, creative writers who enjoy using canon to 
produce some of the most interesting and entertaining stories in the fandom. 
  It's also home to a lot of non-writers with extremely good taste... until 
a month ago, I fell into that category.  Basically (as my students love to 
say), "we are all that!"  H/H--the Power Ship.  (Hey, it had to be said!  
LOL!)

Kathy concluded:
>Quite honestly I am starting to find Harry kinda boring. (Is that 
>blasphemy?)

Yes, Kathy, it is.  The inscrutable hero... boring?  You should be 
thoroughly ashamed of yourself!  To Azkaban you go, without a trial in the 
Shipper Court of Justice!  (giggling)

Most H/H fanatics, to our credit, don't think Ron is boring.  To us, he's 
irritating.  We don't "do him wrong" because he's a non-entity.  We do mean 
things to him because he gets on our nerves.  "Pair him with Lavender!  Kill 
him off!  Make him a monk who never gets any!"  All right, all right!  I'm 
just kidding.  (Or am I?)  ;-)

I'm serious, this is funny... so is this why a lot of R/H writers pair off 
Harry and Ginny?  You have to admit, Ginny's not the most intriguing 
character in canon... do you guys feel one boring character deserves 
another?  (Not that I think Harry is boring... far from it!  And Ginny, as a 
Weasley, probably is not boring... she just doesn't hold much interest for 
Harry at this point.  <vbg>)

--Ebony

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Ebony AKA AngieJ
(H/H Special Agent, First Class)

"'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily.  'I thought two 
Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet 
campaign.  You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin 
upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down 
everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.'

"There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry 
sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on 
Ron's face."

--from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed.

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