Shipping Party Boats ... Anyone for a Cruise?

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 10113

Hi --

Ya'll have been busy this afternoon!  Wow -- I think I've been demoted
to like cabin-boy or something on our little ship.  :--)

Kathy said:

> Well, that's a new take on the issue!  But I think it goes along with what
> I said earlier about Ron and Hermione.  Saying Harry "should" be with
> Hermione because she "likes" him (which, did I mention, I don't necessarily think
> she does) is just as bad as saying that Hermione should be with Ron just
> because he likes her.
>
I agree! Whoo hoo -- we agree on something Kathy!  (I think we've been
agreeing more than disagreeing lately actually ... we finally realized
that both sides were saying the same thing: Hermione is still a puzzle).

> Those of us with strong preference often say things like "those misguided
> __/__ shippers" and tease each other, but I don't think any of us truly
> believe that our humble opinions outweigh JKR's universe.
>
Yes -- it can be light-hearted teasing with no hard feelings!  See!
We've been using these "ship" analogies today, and I'm now totally
picturing party boats.  Ebony has dubbed us the SS H/H, and Kathy seems
to have tagged her camp with the Good Ship R/H.  Might be fun to
describe our respective boats, and then we can wave at each other from
our respective party "ships."

The SS H/H:  We have a large interior ballroom with a great swing band
(thanks to Lori, who booked it for us months ago).  Every night at
midnight, blue snow falls in the ballroom (thanks to Cassie).  We have a
well-stocked bar of course.  Our bartender?  I'm guessing Crazy Ivan is
up to the task.  <g>  Fellow H/H'ers .... I'm leaving you the
opportunity to continue describing our Party Ship ....

And, of course, we want to hear more about the Good Ship R/H too!  We
think our boat's more fun (and less likely to sink in the long-run -
mwah haahaahhhaaa -- hope you guys have plenty of life preservers over
there.  Maybe we should hover nearby to pick off the survivors!).
Anyway .... maybe some of you will think the SS H/H sounds like a more
fun & welcoming place soon ...

> Actually, I think it's entirely possible that she likes them both, and not
> in the Harry-is-the-love-of-her-life and Ron-is-a-dear-friend-she-would-never-want-to-hurt way that most H/H-ers
> seem to think.  The overwhelming message I seem to get from the H/H crowd is
> that if she liked them both and wound up dating Ron it would only be because he
> was "the easy choice", as he definitely has feelings for her.  I think it
> entirely possible that she maybe could have feelings for them both, and maybe might
> realize that her feelings for Harry are just a crush (collective gasp from
> H/H shippers at such blasphemous thoughts) and that Ron is really the one for
> her.
>
She's an adolescent .... so it's perfectly possible that she could find
them both romantically interesting (or be confused about her feelings).
I don't actually think that if she dates Ron it will be because he's the
"easy choice."  I think Hermione's a stronger person than that.  But, I
think she might decide to bury/repress feelings for Harry and date Ron
(not because he's 2nd choice but b/c she just unconsciously does this).
Then, she might later realize that Ron isn't working out for her.  Or,
maybe they would end up happily ever after.  Or, maybe like Cass did
with DD: Harry tells her point-blank that he doesn't return her feelings
& so she decides after some time to date Ron (if he's still
interested).  Then, Harry could change his mind later.  Possibilties are
endless!  Point is: I don't see Hermione not following her heart when it
comes to a serious relationship & marriage.

Elizabeth said:

> I (Penny) said: < I think Ebony was suggesting that *if* Ron knew (or Hermione told Ron)
> that her feelings were for Harry and *if* Ron knew or suspected that Harry returned
> (or *could* return) Hermione's feelings, would Ron not be a big enough person
> to put his own feelings for Hermione to the side, considering that he is first &
> foremost friends with them both?  IMO, it is not only acceptable but a
> show that a person is a bigger person than to let petty jealousy stand in the
> way of a budding romance & a continued friendship amongst the three of them.>
>
> Elizabeth responded: I'll ponder this a bit more, but I'm not entirely sure that suppressing
> one's feelings makes one a bigger person.  I'm also not sure what you mean by
> "could return."  Are you suggesting that Ron should put aside his own
> feelings if Harry's feelings are unknown?
>
No, that's not what I'm saying.  Here's the scenario: Ron tells Hermione
he'd like to date her.  She says, "Sorry, but I don't feel that way
about you."  She either goes on to say explicitly, "I'm interested in
Harry," or Ron somehow divines this.  Ron figures out that Harry has
romantic interest in Hermione, but hasn't said anything because he knew
how Ron felt about Hermione.  *Or,* Ron thinks that if he (Ron) were to
"step aside," Harry might allow himself to develop feelings for
Hermione.  In either case, would Ron be so jealous & small-minded that
he would refuse to clear the way for a H/H romance?  I don't necessarily
think so.

I think we have a fundamental disagreement regarding Hermione's
character (I'm not putting in all the quotes here).  Elizabeth basically
seems to suggest that Hermione is *still* the same bossy know-it-all
that she was in SS/PS.  I think she's changed and is hardly recognizable
as the same person at all.

> What about Ron and Hermione both declaring their feelings for each other?
>

That only works if you're in the school of thought that Hermione likes
Ron.  I don't think she does.  I hope to be passing out the lyrics to
Farmer in the Dell soon after Book 5 is released!  <g>

> I'm sorry if I react harshly to that suggestion, but teasing is a very
> major trigger for me and I never find it the least bit humorous.
>
I don't really know how to respond to this.  The shipper debates do
involve alot of teasing.  If it's too hard for you to take or recognize
for what it is (light-hearted banter), then maybe skipping the shipping
posts is a good idea.  I hope your feelings haven't been hurt, as I'm
sure that's not anyone's intention.  But, the shipping debates are
better off being carried off in a joking, teasing manner than if
everyone really had their guns out for a true debate, don't you think?

Back to Ebony:

> Again, unless JKR avoids romance subplots altogether, they will be a bit
> sticky.  And they will tie into the master narrative.  I said I wouldn't
> put money on R/H... but if any romance occurs, I'd be willing to put my money
> where my mouth is.
>
Me too!  <vbg>

> Also, Ron should not have to put his feelings on the back burner.  I agree with that too.  If he likes
> Hermione, and *if* Hermione returns those feelings, then they should go for
> it.  I'll even grin over those scene in canon (ducks away from Penny, who
> tosses a rubber Quidditch club in my direction).
>
Hey, I'm not tossing anything!  :--)  I agree -- *if* Hermione returns
his feelings, then they should be together.  Of course, I don't put much
stock in that *if* ever coming true either.  FITD .... FITD ... Hi Ho
the Derry 'O ... oops (lapsed into song there ... sorry).  Where were
we?  :--)

> It's also counterproductive to participate in a debate, and then because
> you don't like some statements from the other side to declare that the debate
> itself is illegitimate.  What in the world?
>
I can always count on you to state things so well, Ebony!  Thanks.

> This post is just announcing the Second Coming.  We have an all-new round
> of theories, fics, and other goodies bubbling in our various cauldrons and are
> prepared to sign up a fresh crop of H/H recruits.  (Yes, our previous
> efforts *did* win recruits.)  Think that FITD and Freud were the outer
> limits of our collective obsessiveness?  The Ferris Wheel Theory, The
> Travel vs. Home Theory, and all sorts of other goodies are headed to a HP4GU list
> near you.  We're just biding our time.  ;-)
>
We're having so much fun & merriment over on the SS H/H ....

> The woman who wrote *Prisoner of Azkaban* is still at the helm of this
> series.  I trust that her quills will always be sharp, and never run out of
> ink.
>
> I also trust that she isn't done shocking our socks off.
>
Me too!

> Interesting--we H/Hers get heat from the R/Hers *and* the no-
> shippers.  ::::wails::::  No one likes us!
>
> That's probably because we're right.
>
I think that you've hit the nail on the head, Ebony.  No one likes the
winner!  :--)

Penny (signing off at last ....)









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