Shipping and Other HP4GU Debates (long as usual)

[Ebony Elizabeth Thomas]

No: HPFGUIDX 10958

Hello, HP4GUers!

M.C. Pandora wrote as an aside embedded in another post:
"(Similar to some 'converted' to Ron/Hermione and away from Harry/Cho
by GoF -- people do like to be right, and re-evaluate the past in
light of the present/future.)"

Exactly.  The above inspired my own brief foray into R/H land... as 
skeptical as I was, I didn't want to debate with the Creator of the HP 
Universe.  Can anyone else relate to M.C.'s quote?

I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences are directly 
related to the way we read the books in general.  Everyone on list knows 
that I'm loudly, obnoxiously, and unashamedly H/H.  I think I basically 
agree with Penny on almost every issue in the fandom except that I think 
Lily and James married young, and I still think Harry's a nickname.  
:::grins at the listmom and H/H captain:::

Here's my stance on those issues.  What I'm wondering now is how other 
H/Hers view the positions below, as opposed to those of other ships and 
no-shippers.

1)  I'm a SuperHarry advocate.  The only reason I haven't jumped into the 
debate with canonical evidence is b/c I've been under the weather.  I've 
been scouring the books in search of evidence of this theory (the crazy idea 
had to have come from *somewhere* in canon) and have unearthed a few 
nuggets.  :-) I think I have enough on my hands with shipping, though.

2)  Although I dislike the Slytherins in canon, I believe that both Draco 
and Snape are redeemable in both canon and fanon.  Even after Cassie's DD/DS 
(which I love), I still distrusted Draco until I began writing TIP... during 
the construction of the backstory and the writing, his character shocked me.

3)  I identify strongly with Percy.  I doubt very seriously that he will 
become a Death Eater.

4)  I think that there's more to Hermione than brains.  We still don't 
*completely* know from canon why the Sorting Hat put her into Gryffindor.

5)  Ron, at this point, *really* needs to be onstage for a significant 
portion of Book 5 so that his character can be developed more.  In books 1-2 
I grinned at him and said "typical boy"... in books 3 and especially 4 I 
really believed he needed to "get a grip".  (No flames, please.  The fact 
that he's 14 at this point doesn't mean much to me--for the millionth time, 
I spend two full hours a day with 13 and 14 year olds.  Not all 14 year old 
boys are like him.  Only some of them are.)

6)  I'm a small Hogwarts/wizarding world advocate.  Unlike shipping, I don't 
care to debate the issue that much.

7)  I have always thought the Wand Order issue was much ado about nothing.  
Nice that it got our e-group the media recognition, though.

8)  I love post-Hogwarts fanfics.  I also like fanfics that attempt to 
explain the scientific and cultural features of the magical world.  While 
shipping fluff and steamy romance fics are all well and good, my favorite 
fics also deal with explaining important existential questions that JKR has 
not dealt with thus far.  Even my own soap opera has a lot of theory-type 
gobbledygook in the background and in the backstory/outline that has 
*nothing to do with shipping*.  (That might explain Kathy's "UberFic" 
theory--the most famous H/H subplot fics really focus on something besides 
shipping entirely--H/H is not the cake itself in these fics, just the icing. 
  <vbg>)

Those are my positions.  I've noticed that H/Hers seem to agree with many of 
the above.  In contrast, a recent visit to a very nice R/H site run by 
grownups (hi, Zsenya!) revealed that most posters stood on the opposite side 
of most of the above.

So there's a bit more to shipping than just drawing a queen and a king from 
a deck of cards.  I'd say it reveals a lot about our personalities.

Kimberly wrote:
>I know as a newbie no-shipper I'm not the best person to respond to
>this, but as I came from and still have a certain affinity for the
>R/H ship's general philosophy, I thought I'd try.

<vbg>  I've noticed that most of the no-shippers that participate in the 
shipping debate (oxymoron, anyone?) don't usually travel on the SS H/H.  We 
still love 'em, though.

A side note--I really don't believe that there is a such thing as a 
no-shipper.  I have too much gobbledygook in my head about the foundations 
of Western cultural philosophy to subscribe to the existence of people 
floating on inner tubes for the next two years at least... and am having 
difficulty constructing a plausible scenario for land-lubbers.

>There might be something to what you're saying.  Kathy mentioned that
>some R/Hers tell her they're uncomfortable posting here because the
>atmosphere seems against it.  I have heard the same.  Maybe they
>perceive that they have something to defend themselves against if
>they post about it?

The R/Hers now have a very nice site where they can express their opinions 
without much rebuttal... I love visiting but only posted an intro.  The 
message boards are very active, but I've seen few counter-arguments over 
there.  I've also seen (sorry to bring this up, but I have to say it) HP4GU 
shipping theories discussed over there and dissected.  All in all, it's nice 
vacationing on foreign cruise ships.  :-)

In contrast, there is no grown-up equivalent H/H site that I know of.  Here 
at HP4GU, the H/Hers get heat from R/Hers, other ships, and no-shippers.  
The PoU list is not for ship discussions per se... Lori graciously allows a 
couple of maritime posts there, but shipping back-and-forth in general (even 
H/H) is OT.

So I'll echo Penny here... it's not that the R/Hers are less vocal.

>Maybe it's just that, being a lawyer, you're better at it that makes
>the R/Hers feel that way, or maybe it's the terminology that has been
>tossed around (disorders, destroyers, etc.).  I'm quite happy myself
>that you've been steering away from them, because down here floating
>without a ship in the waters of ambiguous anticipation it's kinda
>scary to see two big ships face of in battle terms.

A few quick points of clarification:
--I started the "destroyer" talk.  I'm the only one who used the term.  
Penny's earlier post checked me effectively.  My apologies.  Chalk it up to 
my man being in uniform... and my own weird and sometimes culturally-derived 
sense of humor.  We'll be a cruise ship from now on.
--I also started the "disorder" talk.  Again, I apologize.  My shipmates had 
nothing to do with it.  R/Hers will be simply "misguided" in the future.
--Penny's being a lawyer has little to do with her defense of the H/H ship.  
I'm not a lawyer, and everyone around these parts know that I'm "loquacious" 
(to quote my dear friend the R/H captain).  There are other lawyers who do 
not ship at all or sail on other vessels.  Let's be fair.
--The shipping theory I'm responsible for is the Freud one, and you *know* 
that gave everyone a good laugh last month... I've seen it mentioned here or 
elsewhere, but no one ever mentions that most H/Hers laughed along with the 
rest of the list at me.  <vbg>  I've also done field research into FITD, 
along with Cassie and Heather.

All right.  I think that's it.

Bear in mind that while the H/H Captain Penny is our listmom, there are 4-5 
other moderators who are confirmed no-shippers and check the vocal H/H 
element effectively (and with good humor!) with posts like Neil's recent 
Titanic post.  That let me know in a subtle way that "destroyer" was not a 
good term to use... and not to impress no-shippers into service a la the 
British navy of 200 years ago.  LOL!

>I hope I'm not stepping on any toes - I don't mean to speak for one
>side or offend the other side.

Not at all, Kimberly--one of my favorite people on list is the R/H 
captain... she and I both work with kids and are addicted to fanfiction.  So 
much for the notion of a real war, when we're both "fraternizing with the 
enemy" (Ron quote!  LOL!)  <g>

Again, R/Her Rina has the right idea.  Let's keep the tone light... I'll do 
my best to comply with that.

Best,

Ebony AKA AngieJ

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Ebony AKA AngieJ
(H/H Special Agent, First Class)

"'We start by recruiting members,' said Hermione happily.  'I thought two 
Sickles to join--that buys a badge--and the proceeds can fund our leaflet 
campaign.  You're treasurer, Ron--I've got you a collecting tin 
upstairs--and Harry, you're secretary, so you might want to write down 
everything I'm saying now, as a record of our first meeting.'

"There was a pause in which Hermione beamed at the pair of them, and Harry 
sat, torn between exasperation at Hermione and amusement at the look on 
Ron's face."

--from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, p. 225, 1st Amer. ed.

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