Perspectives in no-shipping....(long)

[sashibuya at hotmail.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 11015

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Ebony Elizabeth Thomas" <ebonyink at h...> 
wrote:
<snip>
> I'm really beginning to think that firm ship preferences are 
directly 
> related to the way we read the books in general.  Everyone on list 
knows 
> that I'm loudly, obnoxiously, and unashamedly H/H.  I think I 
basically 
> agree with Penny on almost every issue in the fandom except that I 
think 
> Lily and James married young, and I still think Harry's a 
nickname.  
> :::grins at the listmom and H/H captain:::

Hmmm. I'd argue it has as much to do with personal views of romance 
as reading styles. Personally, I'd be especially wary of drawing 
generalizations among the no-shipping crowd, as we are a diverse, 
motley group. For example, I've shipped in other fandoms, but just 
haven't got that 'shipping feeling in HP. (Note that shipping debates 
are actually two part....1)Is the relationship canonical(intended by 
the author)? 2)Is the relationship good/bad/irritating? realistic? 
predictable/out-of-the blue? intriguing/boring/just-there? (how do 
you feel about it? Strong enough to write fanfiction about it?)? 

In HP, we're still mostly at the #1 stage with the relationship 
debate. To get me interested, Rowling will have to give me better, 
unambiguous relationship scenes. But I suspect I will end up being a 
"it's just there, and pretty good" kind of person. 

I agree with many of marvin's thoughts on the subject (about the "too 
young" and "too much projecting into the future" arguments). I have 
no problem with people shipping; in fact, it's rather interesting to 
read. I also suspect that JKR may not resolve the romance thing in 
the series itself, because there is so much else to resolve, and 
because of the focus on friendship. 

<snip>
> 
> 1)  I'm a SuperHarry advocate
<snip>
I too, think that JKR is leading in that way with the theory. I have 
no particular stake in believing it strongly to be so, but most of 
the canon appears to tilt in that direction. 
 
> 2)  Although I dislike the Slytherins in canon, I believe that both 
Draco 
> and Snape are redeemable in both canon and fanon.  
<snip>

If we believe Dumbledore (and Dumbledore hasn't been wrong about 
something important like this yet), Snape has *already* been 
redeemed. Draco isn't well-characterized for me yet to make a 
judgement whether he is redeemable or not. I do, however, suspect 
that JKR will do a "more than meets the eye" thing with Draco, 
because we've already had it with Snape, and that generational 
parallelism that she's set up would point in that direction. 

Ah well, color me Slytherin-fascinated. (Now how does *that* 
correlate with no-shipping, if at all?)

> 
> 3)  I identify strongly with Percy.  I doubt very seriously that he 
will 
> become a Death Eater.

Agreed there. I'm also a Percy sympathizer. Hey, whatever happened to 
Penelope Clearwater?

> 
> 4)  I think that there's more to Hermione than brains.  We still 
don't 
> *completely* know from canon why the Sorting Hat put her into 
Gryffindor.

Who said that there wasn't more to her than brains? She's shown 
enough courage and loyalty so far for me to have no problems with the 
hat's judgement. 

> 
> 5)  Ron, at this point, *really* needs to be onstage for a 
significant 
> portion of Book 5 so that his character can be developed more.
<snip>

Agreed. I think the tensions between him and Harry in book four were 
very interesting. I'd like to see more of Ron struggling to form his 
own identity, a theme which has been there since book one when he 
looked into the mirror of Erised. Does Hermione have any similar 
problem? 

> 
> 6)  I'm a small Hogwarts/wizarding world advocate.  Unlike 
shipping, I don't 
> care to debate the issue that much.

I'm of the opinion that the only thing the debate proved was that JKR 
herself doesn't pay very much attention to world size. I refuse to 
hold the lack of knowledge of statistical population analysis against 
her. :) The wizarding world seems to be a way for Rowling to vaguely 
comment about present day England. I mean, there are lots of things, 
when looked from a sociological or historical perspective, seem 
extremely inexplicable in the wizarding world, so I prefer not to 
debate those. 

> 
> 7)  I have always thought the Wand Order issue was much ado about 
nothing.  
> Nice that it got our e-group the media recognition, though.

I liked it. It gave us interesting insight into the publication 
world. 

> 
> 8)  I love post-Hogwarts fanfics.  I also like fanfics that attempt 
to 
> explain the scientific and cultural features of the magical world.  
While 
> shipping fluff and steamy romance fics are all well and good, my 
favorite 
> fics also deal with explaining important existential questions that 
JKR has 
> not dealt with thus far.  
<snip>

I don't really like post-Hogwarts fanfics myself. So far I like 
parodies and ones that fill out the secondary characters; for me, I 
don't want to second-guess the end of the battle against Voldemort 
too much, at least yet. 

> 
> Those are my positions.  I've noticed that H/Hers seem to agree 
with many of 
> the above.  In contrast, a recent visit to a very nice R/H site run 
by 
> grownups (hi, Zsenya!) revealed that most posters stood on the 
opposite side 
> of most of the above.

This is interesting, but I'm not sure (not flaming here, just looking 
for clarification) what these points have to do with the shipping 
debates... Slytherin reform seems to be entirely extraneous, as do 
small-world and wand-order. Post-Hogwarts fanfic, Superharry, and 
Percy-identification could possibly be related, but I'm not sure how. 
Ron needing character development and more-than-meets-the-eye 
Hermione (Transformers!) obviously do have relevance, but I would 
guess that people on both sides of the HH/RH debate could hold them. 


Charmian