In defense of Ginny <again> and such

[moongirlk at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 11066

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer <pennylin at s...> 
wrote:
> Hi --
> 
> I have several points about Ginny:
> 
> 1.  She was *passed out* (incoherent, unhearing, unseeing, 
>uncomprehending of everything that took place in the Chamber of 
>Secrets).  She had a very momentary glimpse of Voldemort
> coming out of the diary before she lost consciousness -- by her own 
>account.  

That's true - she was unconscious and she did only glimpse him.  In 
Harry's *first* confrontation, he was an infant/toddler, and remembers 
only a flash of light and some laughter.  
She was, however, conscious while corresponding with him for nearly a 
whole school year.  I think she'd have had the chance to learn 
*something* about him.  Especially when his plan was for her not to 
survive - it's a classic evil overloard thing to do - give something 
away when you're planning to kill the person, only for the person to 
escape.  So far Voldemort's main weaknesses have involved pride, in my 
view.

In my mind, this isn't really the same thing at all as 
>Harry's confrontations with Voldy.

I don't think  anyone would argue that (anyone, anyone? :)).  Nobody's 
said she's equal to Harry's abilities, or that she's had equal 
experiences.  I think the point was just that she's a little bit more 
than a throw-away character used as a polt device in CoS, and probably 
at least as useful as Buckbeak to the story as a whole.  She's got the 
potential to be a real part of the fight, and to show Harry and the 
reader that she's more than just a giggling redheaded child (although 
I quite liked her even when that's all she was).  If the other 
characters get to grow and evolve, then Ginny probably will too, 
provided she's not killed off on page 1 of book 5.

> 
> Harry saved her life.  But for him, she would have died in the 
>Chamber.  She was not saved by any strength of character on her part.  
>As Riddle's outline became clearer & more in
> focus, Harry could see that she was fading away.

Agreed - Harry saved her life.  I don't really see that changing the 
fact that she might be useful.  Harry and Ron saved Hermione's life 
when the troll had her cornered, and Hermione wasn't exactly 
displaying her character strengths at the time, while cowering in the 
corner.  She's sure proven quite useful since then, however, and has 
plenty of strenght of character that was not displayed at that time, 
but showed up immediately after.  Surely you agree with that? :) 
 
> 2.  Riddle put into her only what he needed to in order for her to 
>serve his ends (IMO).  I don't think she could possibly have any 
>permanent residual Riddle powers (like Harry's
> parseltongue abilities).  

Me either - I never considered that she might have gotten any powers 
from him, but I can't imagine that in the months he was seducing her  
he never once let her learn anything about himself that might be 
useful against his later self, who, now that I think of it, has no way 
of knowing what his young counterpart may have shared, as the diary 
was destroyed.  Malfoy probably told him what he knew of what 
happened, but he can't know the details.  There's room for a fake-out 
even, which would be hysterical, if unlikely!  I can just picture it - 

Harry: "We know your secret."
Voldemort: "What secret?!?"
Harry: "You know!  Young Tom told Ginny all about it through that 
diary you left behind."
Voldemort(startng to look worried): "That's rediculous, he'd, I mean 
I'd never tell."
Harry (whispered aside to Ron/Ginny):  "Yup, there's a secret all 
right."
Harry (to Voldemort):  "Well he did, and we're going to tell everyone 
unless you leave those muggles alone!"

Sorry, had to indulge my goofy imagination, but I can just see 
Voldemort getting all worried - would be too funny!  

>I also don't know that he necessarily 
>revealed too much about himself in his diary "conversations" with her 
>that year.  It sounds to me like he encouraged
> her to spill out her heart & soul to him, and he took what he needed 
>from her.  There's never any indication that he "confided" deep dark 
>secrets in her, things that she'll know &
> have as a ace-in-the-hole at the end of the day.  

I'm of the opinion that he did confide something - I'm not talking 
deep dark secrets, necessarily.  He showed Harry a pretty vulnerable 
moment in his life (begging the headmaster not to send him back to the 
orphanage) in just the short encounter they had.  Granted he showed 
that to manipulate Harry, but that's exactly why I think he may have 
told Ginny other things - to manipulate her into his trust.  I just 
think that in all those months Ginny must have learned something, even 
if she doesn't recognize it's significance yet.  

>I could be wrong 
>about that, but it goes against everything we know about 
>Riddle/Voldemort to think he'd reveal anything useful to
> her (or that she'd be able to remember it if he had).  

I think this goes right along with him deciding to blast a baby and 
not even considering what must have been reasonably available magical 
knowlege - that his mother's sacrifice would protect him.  I think it 
also goes along with the overly-elaborate, dramatic way he went about 
getting Harry in GoF - he's not the most coldly logical Evil Baddie 
I've ever seen >:(} (that's supposed to be a horned Evil Baddie with 
an Evil Baddie goatee - didn't come out very well)

>He also 
>wasn't a child when his former self was corresponding with her -- he 
>was 16, already had conceived his aims in life
> and taken on the secret identity of Lord Voldemort.  He was already 
>evil.  I just don't picture him confiding any vulnerabilities in her 
>-- I think he'd likely already squelched his
> vulnerabilities.

Everyone has vulnerabilities - I don't believe for a minute that the 
16 year old Tom Riddle was invulnerable - if he were, he'd never have 
made the mistakes he did later on.

I believe that Ginny is going to have significance in the stories in 
the future, and that it may be in this way.  I also believe that CoS 
must have had some significance to the growth of the Story as a whole, 
and that Ginny would never have been made a plot device and nothing 
more.  If JKR didn't have any further use for her, she could have just 
let her die down there.

Of course this is probably one more place where we'll just have to 
agree to disagree, which is ok too - makes for fun discussion! ;)

Happy Superbowl Sunday all!
kimberly