Shipping through the cracks

[Kathleen Kelly MacMillan]

No: HPFGUIDX 11216

Ahoy there, mateys!

Scott wrote:
> I guess that when it comes down to it I
>just don't like or relate to Ron. (I know that is no excuse) To a
>certain extent I also think that the character most like me is
>Hermione and so I want to set her up with the hero.

See, crew?  They even admit it!  ;)

I wrote:
<<Oooo, I want to read this Rina!>>

And Rina responded:
>Well, now, don't say that yet. LOL I really don't think it's what
>you'd expect. <g>

Oh, no, I do want to read it!  Half of my favorite fanfics have been the exact 
opposite of what I'd expect (And despite my rather strong R/H position-to put 
it mildly<g>-half the authors on my favorites page are H/H.  So I'll read 
anything.)

I wrote:
<<It's not that I would rather see Ron/Harry than H/H; it's just that I think 
it's more plausible.  I see more evidence to support a Ron/Harry pairing than 
I do for H/H.>>

And Rina responded:
>Really? Like what? I see evidence for both, but I can see evidence for
>just about anyone.

Well, I hadn't really said much more about it because I didn't want to get 
into slashy arguments (not that they aren't valid or useful, I just personally 
don't find them as interesting).  I guess my main basis for this feeling is 
that I think I see Harry being more reciprocally involved in an Ra/H pairing 
than an H/H one. (And yes, the 2nd Task is probably a big part of that.) I 
still don't see much evidence that Harry would develop feelings for Hermione.  
I know those on the SS H/H have their points, and some of them I can see, 
believe it or not <g>, but overall I just don't buy it.  Sorry.

Rina wrote:
>Hee hee! Don't worry, I make the best martinis this side of the >Mississippi. 
Some of them might be so enamored with my bartending
>skills that they'll follow me back to the Good Ship R/H. ; )

Somehow I think you're going to make a great ambassador!

Rina wrote:
>But maybe we all look at what we prefer in a relationship, and apply
>it to these characters? I think I do, sounds like Kathy might, and I >believe 
Penny talked earlier about not seeing anything affectionate in
>the constant bickering. Any thoughts? I know it's a generalization,
>but I'm just curious if it's on target.

Well, you've pegged me right.  That's why I find H/H (and the thought of Harry 
as a boyfriend-did I mention how much identify with Hermione?) rather boring.


Marvin:
><risking heat> For that matter, I don't think it quite qualifies as
>shipping unless you've decided that you *want* to see two(or more)
>characters together.  To merely read the words JKR wrote and
>say, "Aha!  I see evidence that Ron likes Hermione!" isn't quite
>shipping.  That's just reading.  OTOH, to say, "Aha!  See this
>evidence that Hermione reciprocates Ron's affection?  In your face,
>SS H/H!!" *is* shipping.  :-)

I think this is on target (btw, I love that last line!).  I think true 
shipping involves a certain manic passion. <g>

marvin again:
>How about this analogy; I see the noshipper fan as a kind of literary
>sports analyst, watching the game and trying to understand the play
>and possibily even predict/infer the outcome without actually rooting
>for a particular team/outcome.  It's like watching a game between
>teams neither of whom is *your* team, so you don't have to be fully
>invested in the outcome and instead you just cheer whenever you see a
>good play.

Well, if that works for you.maybe I'm just too far gone, but I can't 
understand being that detached about it.  (OK,so, yes, I am too far gone.don't 
rub it in.) ;)

Star wrote (of DrMM's parallel theory):
>really? I don't see that at all.  I at least don't see any parallels >between 
Hermione and Mrs. Weasley, yes Mrs. Weasley had a bit of a
>temper and likes to follow the rules like our dear Hermy but I still
>see Hermione and Molly dear as being alot different.

Actually I see a lot of parallels, and I am looking forward to reading DrMM's 
take on things.  Mostly I see the relationships as similar, the way the two 
females keep the two males "grounded" so to speak.  It strikes me that Ron has 
a nice healthy fear of Hermione at times (in PoA, he says something sarcastic 
while she's studying for finals, but "very quietly").  Maybe it's a fear of 
upsetting her, I don't know, but I see Arthur reacting to Molly in the same 
way.  I don't know-I'll wait and see what DrMM has to say before I blather on 
any more.

Mo wrote:
>As for the
>Crookshanks/Scabbers incident - IMO Hermione was acting insensitive and
>spoiled.  Crookshanks was trying to attack and possibly eat Scabbers.  She
>continued to poo-poo Ron's concerns saying "that's what cats and rats do."
>That really irked me.  So what if Ron is mad for a while?  Shouldn't he have
>some time to mourn?  His pet is missing and presumed eaten, and I >personally 
believe he had the right to be angry.

I actually agreed with a lot more from this message, but I had to snip 
something or this post would be even longer!  Anyway, I think this is a good 
point that hasn't been made often enough.  Hermione isn't perfect, as we well 
know, but she could at least show a little sympathy.  Even Harry thinks Ron 
was right that Crookshanks ate Scabbers.  Ron gets a lot of flack for being so 
stubborn, but let's not forget how stubborn Hermione can be too.  As for the 
Goblet of Fire argument, well, anyone who's read my story can tell you what my 
interpretation of that is.  Suffice it to say, I think Harry was equally at 
fault.

Penny wrote:
>So .... I think Hermione & Sirius are more alike -- bright, fiercely
>loyal & steadfast, etc.

In the interest of space, I have snipped a lot of this, but I think you have 
some good points about Hermione's loyalty.  She is very good at keeping 
secrets, as we have seen.  While I do think that loyalty is a strong trait for 
her, I am not sure if I would describe her as "fiercely" loyal, the way I 
would describe Ron.  I don't know.maybe it's just a matter of personality.

Penny wrote:
>I'm playing fair!  Honest!  Actually, I think I took "denigrate" to mean
>"criticize."  Having just looked it up, it means more to "defame."  So,
>okay, just to clarify  ... I can visit the Good Ship R/H without fear of
>being forced to walk to the plank if I criticize Ron (or another
>Weasley) as long as I don't cross the line into defamation?  I think I
>might want a clear standard of defamation before boarding the Good Ship
>R/H in any case.  <vbg>

OK, here's what's posted by our gangplank:
Welcome Aboard the Good Ship R/H!
While aboard our ship, please note the following rules and regulations:

1)	No defamation of Weasleys will be tolerated.  This includes, but is not 
limited to, implications that Ron is less than Harry, suggestions that Ron 
will turn evil and betray his friends, and the like.  The penalty for this 
will be walking the plank, to be administered immediately to violators by 
First Mate Mo (who can be very surly, so watch out!)

2)	H/H-ers are welcome to visit for brief periods, but they minute they try to 
convert crew members, they will be keelhauled.  Be warned, if an H/H-er stays 
for an extended time, he or she may be led away to our clinic by Counselor 
Kelley for gentle deprogramming.

3)	The suggestion that Hermione should be with Draco is cause for immediate 
loading into one of our canons (yes, canons) and being launched over to the SS 
Leather Trousers.

4)	The SS H/G travels alongside the Good Ship R/H for protective purposes.  
Any visitor who is unable to be nice to the H/G is advised to remain on the 
port side of the ship away from temptation to taunt.  Anyone taunting the crew 
of the H/G will find themselves burping slugs for several hours.

5)	Watch out for the Canary Creams.

Actually, maybe we should just post the "Daily Affirmations" from the 
SugarQuill...they seem to say it all!

Penny wrote (about Harry's gratitude to Hermione):
>Well, he might not have "thought" it out loud for the reader.  But, >he
>did say to Hermione, "Hermione, I need your help!  I need to learn >how
>to do summoning charms properly."  In other words, he knows she'll >help
>him -- he knows he can count on her.  Yes, it'd be nice if he told >her
>so, but I figure his actions (reliance on her when the going gets >tough)
>speaks for him in alot of ways.

To me, that's not gratitude, that's taking for granted that she'll help him.  
Of course she will, but if I were Hermione I would resent the hell out of the 
fact that he never says thank you.  And he doesn't even seem to notice that 
Hermione is treating him a lot better than Harry had treated her when she and 
Ron were fighting.  I know what you're going to say: Harry did try to patch 
things up.  Yeah, once or twice, in how many months of not speaking to her? 
Hermione was very clearly going back and forth trying to get Ron and Harry to 
speak to each other the whole time.  (And, as much as it's been argued here, I 
still don't think she "chose sides" during that fight by spending time with 
Harry, as it seems to me she spent time with Ron too, but that's another 
argument).

I wrote:
>Does anyone think that H/V is really going to happen, or was it >just a
> device to get Ron's feelings to the surface?

And Penny replied:
>You really think Hermione agreed to go to the Yule Ball with Viktor >to
>try & get Ron to notice her?  <snorts with laughter>  Her actions >at the
>Ball speak differently.  IMO, she genuinely was pleased that >someone had
>noticed her as a girl, and I don't think she's the type person who >would
>go in for that sort of ploy.

Actually, Penny, I was referring to the whole Viktor thing as a "ploy to get 
Ron's feelings to the surface" from JKR's point of view, not Hermione's.  For 
the record, I absolutely don't believe that Hermione would do something that 
petty.  I think it entirely possible that she assumed/maybe hoped that Ron 
would ask her, and was really irritated when he made the pair of trolls 
remark, and that may even have pushed her decision to go with Viktor.  (This 
is the situation in my fanfic anyway).  But I don't think, as some of the 
reviews I have gotten seem to indicate, that she would go with Viktor out of 
"revenge".  I think she was flattered by Viktor's invitation, and maybe a 
little disturbed (I would be, if a famous someone who was several years older 
than me asked me to a ball and appeared to be so serious about me).  In fact, 
I do think Hermione has feelings for Ron (did you know that?<g>) but maybe 
that she didn't admit them to herself, or even realize them until the whole 
hoopla around the ball brought it out.  And she is sure as hell not going to 
admit it to him while he's being such an idiot.  Another place where I think 
Hermione's stubbornness, as well as Ron's, comes into play.

Anyway, more to the point, I was wondering if people think Viktor was a 
literary device to bring out the tension between Ron and Hermione, or if he 
will be important in later books.  I'm still not sure whether I think that 
Hermione will visit Viktor over the summer.  I think if she did, it would be 
as a friend, because I don't see her having a real interest in him 
romantically.  I think she likes him, and is interested in knowing him better, 
but not necessarily romantically. (But, Ron doesn't know that, so it could 
still be fodder for jealousy of course.)

I said:
> I, for one, am not "disquieted" by the idea of H/H; in fact, I think
> it's rather dull and too HGTG <grins at First Mate Mo>.  I never
> understood why H/H-ers think R/H is "the easy way out" or some >such.

And Penny replied:
>Okay, I'll bite.  What's HGTG?  :--)

Hero Gets The Girl.  Need I say more?

Penny wrote:
>R/H -- not definitely Volatile.  Might well disintegrate into
>Dysfunction (just like Calm marriages could fall into Dysfunction >for
>different reasons).  :--)

I could see R/H falling into Dysfunctional,just like any match could.  But I 
could see H/H doing the same thing, and faster.  Ron and Hermione don't fight 
ALL the time, you know.  They are nice to each other a good portion of the 
time.  Just because they occasionally snipe at each other badly enough to send 
Harry running to the Owlery doesn't mean they don't get along.  Think about 
all the times Harry comes back from Quidditch practice and there they are 
studying or whatever and NOT fighting.  Besides, about the 
Harry-running-to-the-Owlery thing.well, just because Harry is uncomfortable 
with it, that doesn't mean that Ron and Hermione are.  They are both very 
passionate people, and sometimes that means raising your voice.  Most of the 
"Calm" relationships I have seen personally seem to be that way mostly because 
one or both of the partners aren't standing up for what they really want.  
(Before you start the flame-throwers, I hasten to add that this is merely my 
experience and I am fully aware that not all "Calm" relationships are this 
way.  I am merely try to explain why I prefer the "Volatile".)

Well that's another way-too-long message from me...I'm headed down to the bar 
for one of Rina's margaritas.

Captain Kathy
AKA Elanor Gamgee