From imfre2 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 00:10:59 2001 From: imfre2 at yahoo.com (imfre2 at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:10:59 -0000 Subject: Trailer/Appeal to Non Readers Message-ID: <9hlpqj+q1pv@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21730 Hi all! I've just come back from watching AI and I was very impressed with the HP trailer. To be honest, I think I enjoyed those 2 minutes much more than the following 2 hours. The quality was exceptional compared to the downloadable media player file. You can tell the producers are really putting an effort into this film. I commend the selection of the actors- especially 'the trio' and Alan Rickman, but above all the score composer, John Williams. I know people may disagree, but I remember his work from Schindler's List, and that was nothing short of brilliant. I believe his talent will fit nicely here; I hear that haunting melody he wrote for the first HP trailer whenever I'm unavoidably drawn back to reading the books. I don't mind the minor discrepancies between the film and books as much because it appears that they are commited to creating the world JK visualized(well, they really could put some mousse in Harry's hair and not use so much on Malfoy's). I realize that they must merge certain details or shorten storylines due to the time restraints of the film, and I'm sure I'll love it regardless of that. I have a couple of questions though- how do you think the trailer (1st or 2nd) appeals to people who haven't read the books? What scenes could they include that would best peak their interest? -Arden From sprsun at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 00:52:57 2001 From: sprsun at yahoo.com (Cai Hui) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 08:52:57 +0800 Subject: Chinese translations - Trailer download References: <993744639.953.92827.l10@yahoogroups.com> Message-ID: <00a501c101c8$311f33e0$a6a55dcb@cagsdic> No: HPFGUIDX 21731 "Alexandra Y. Kwan" wrote: > 'Cause Scholastic is being stupid? Oh, how I love my UK versions (now that > I've bought them in Hong Kong...). Though, I find it strange that both > Taiwan and mainland China translated from the USA version instead of the > Brit one. Actually the mainland Chinese versions *were* translated from the Brit versions. as far as I can tell. Dean Thomas is not a black boy in the Chinese translation. They just decided to use the US cover design. I don't know about the Taiwan translations, though. Have you seen them in Hong Kong? I heard the PoA had just come out. -------- I suppose most people have already downloaded the 2nd trailer but still, if there's anyone who is still having trouble finding the quicktime versions... the exact locations are: http://live.stream.aol.com:8080/demand/wb/quicktime/trailer2_aolwb_hi.mov http://live.stream.aol.com:8080/demand/wb/quicktime/trailer2_aolwb_med.mov http://live.stream.aol.com:8080/demand/wb/quicktime/trailer2_aolwb_lo.mov I usually just view the source of the webpage and search for .mov Hui still catching up... I was only away for three days! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From sandyjoys at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 03:15:25 2001 From: sandyjoys at yahoo.com (sandyjoys at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 03:15:25 -0000 Subject: Trailer/Appeal to Non Readers In-Reply-To: <9hlpqj+q1pv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hm4kd+sv82@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21732 > > I have a couple of questions though- how do you think the trailer > (1st or 2nd) appeals to people who haven't read the books? What > scenes could they include that would best peak their interest? > > -Arden Hey all, This is my first post here, ::waves:: Anyway, my husband has not read the books. I showed him the first trailer and he was like "Eh." Because the first trailer it is just shots of all the different characters, who are instantly recognizable to those who have read. But we went to AI last night (I too, enjoyed the trailer more than the movie that followed) and he was in almost as much awe as I was. He is now excited to see the movie and has promised me he would read the books ASAP. Something I have been pestering him about since I read them. From jacqbeagle at bigpond.com Sun Jul 1 03:25:00 2001 From: jacqbeagle at bigpond.com (jacqbeagle at bigpond.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 03:25:00 -0000 Subject: MOVIE Trailer/Appeal to Non Readers In-Reply-To: <9hlpqj+q1pv@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hm56c+tibl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21733 > I have a couple of questions though- how do you think the trailer > (1st or 2nd) appeals to people who haven't read the books? What > scenes could they include that would best peak their interest? > > -Arden More Fluffy. My older sister has been interested in seeing Fluffy ever since she saw the plush toy of him. Her concern is that he will look like he belongs (effects wise) in Clash of the Titans. Rowena who will be comparing the HP and LOTR movies (and probably love both)! From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 04:01:43 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 04:01:43 -0000 Subject: Trailer: Scar In-Reply-To: <3B3DEDA6.9733F38E@texas.net> Message-ID: <9hm7b7+9rnk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21734 Amanda wrote: >When Fred Bode, who > did the artwork that's out there on the puzzles and such, did that > signing at the WB store in San Antonio, I went, and I asked him about > the alignment of the scar (horizontal vs. vertical). He then relayed > that he'd had a conversation with JKR about it, and that she had said > that in her mind's eye, she saw baby Harry flinching away as the spell > was cast, so the scar is, in fact, diagonal. So it was secondhand but > still pretty direct; I don't know if Steve deemed it canon or not. > > However, alas, nowhere did we discuss on- or off-center. Aha! I knew I'd read it from a reliable source. That would be Amanda, Fount of Knowledge. Mr. Bode, OTOH, is not terribly reliable. Didn't you also ask him why Hermione had blue eyes and he said he was sure he'd read it in the books? Amy Z warming up for this week's contest (are L.O.O.N. members eligible, or is it one of those "no employees of Yadayada Corp. nor their family members may participate" deals?) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 04:34:47 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 04:34:47 -0000 Subject: Trailer disappointment and other syndromes Message-ID: <9hm997+sif5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21735 Amanda wrote: >My main worry was always that the special effects would drown anything >else, story included. No more; the cast is more than able to carry the >movie, relegating the effects back to where they belong, in a >"supporting" role. I never thought they'd be able to make a movie with >this much "magic," where it was nonetheless almost not noticed (i.e., in >that it is simply appropriate and fits, the way a superb soundtrack is >"not heard"). It would also be very much in keeping with the books for magic to be more in the foreground in this first movie. PS/SS gives the most attention of the four to the amazing aspects of the wizarding world because Harry himself is so amazed by the smallest thing. By GF, he takes most of it in stride, only occasionally bumping up against something so new that it startles him (e.g. the Pensieve--actually, even there, he catches on quickly because he's had a similar experience with Riddle's diary). A bit of wide-eyed wonder is more than appropriate, IMO. It's also my answer to Arden's question: people who haven't read the books won't get much sense of the plot beyond "this kid is a wizard and only just learned it," which if they don't know it by now, they must live in a cave inside the Arctic Circle, but they'll get a good sense of the magical world. If they're intrigued by three-headed dogs, goblin bank tellers, owl UPS, and flying broomsticks, they'll say "Wow" and go to the movie. And, one hopes, read the books! I also agree with you on translation from book to movie--the "feel" is the main thing and changing details in order to achieve that bigger picture is fine, not to mention necessary. Some details will drive some of us nuts and cause others merely to shrug. I personally don't care whether Potions is held in a dungeon or Harry's broomstick is packaged in a box, but there are other small details I care passionately about (Ron MUST be much taller than Harry! It's vitally important! Sigh . . .) On a related issue, though, I can't agree with Steve that we can consider elements like Hooch's whistle anything like canon just because JKR did so much consulting on the film. Just for starters, we know that the film explicitly contradicts canon in spots, e.g. Harry's hair is jet-black, period, no room for negotiation, in the books. JKR obviously didn't care enough to insist on it--apparently the climactic scene of Book 7 will not hinge on the color of Harry's hair, in case any of us were wondering--but brown hair still isn't canon. By extrapolation, I'll accept that Hooch can have a whatever-it-is whistle (how DO you all get such high-resolution trailers?), but it still isn't the Word of God, otherwise known as Jo. Steve, we count on you to be Guardian of the Canon! Don't desert us nitpickers now, in our hour of direst need! Amy Z --------------------------------------------- Professor Trelawney kept predicting Harry's death, which he found extremely annoying. -HP and the Goblet of Fire --------------------------------------------- From john at walton.to Sun Jul 1 04:56:50 2001 From: john at walton.to (John Walton) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:56:50 -0400 Subject: MOVIE: Trailer (John's Musings) In-Reply-To: <9hm7b7+9rnk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21736 Okay, some random musings here. Went to see AI tonight. Good film, but a little unsatisfying in places. Aaaaanyway... [The lights dim. The what-I-call "HP Christmas Music" starts playing. A chorus of excited whispers echo around the theatre. "Harry Potter!"] 1) Robbie Coltrane's Somerset Accent: Appalling! Dreadful! He sounds Scottish, not Westcountry! URGH! Not like! V. Bad! Naughty moviemaking people! Far too many exclamation points in this section! ::grin:: 2) The Music: I like. I really like. Williams has done a fantastic job. Now all I can do is sit back and hope that the rumor of Celine Dion doing The Harry Potter Song is false. (Caius, you've found your niche...) 3) Maggie Smith's McGonagall: Superb! Even though I have always envisaged Judi Dench as McG, Maggie Smith's is absolutely excellent. 4) The Swinging-Around Staircase: Completely different from my mental picture of Hogwarts' staircases. (NB: This is not necessarily a completely bad thing.) I always envisaged them like the stairways at school, which weren't "flying", but were set into stone, like in a proper castle (one assumes so that people inside weren't hit with arrows...). But I loved the effects. 5) The Train Carriage internal shot: Also different from my mental picture. I had envisaged a much "older-looking" train carriage -- browning, perhaps cracked leather seats, no armrests, and definitely no fabric headrests. 6) Diagon Alley: Is anyone else somewhat surprised to see snow falling in Diagon Alley on July 31st? ::scratches head:: Ermmmmm... 7) Arrival of the broomstick via owl: I liked it. Had I not read earlier posts about there being a box, I wouldn't have remembered. Apart from my Great Hall being differently shaped to the one in Oxford, though, I did like this. 8) The Broomstick Scene, part 1: They're all on the ground and are saying "Up!" Excellent! Exactly how I envisaged it. I really enjoyed all of this. 9) TBS, part 2: Harry & Draco Also good -- really liked Draco throwing it forwards rather than just dropping it, plus Dan Radcliffe's look of determination as he darts forward 10) The Snitch: Great touch to have the wings made of magic -- really liked how they snapped out. Different to the book (mentions beating wings, also ?white wings?), but I liked. 11) The Wand: I was surprised to see how thick and firm it was -- looked about an inch or 3/4 of an inch in diameter, and tapered. I was expecting 1/2 an inch or less. Liked scene; however, I think I recall red stars shooting out the end in the book. In the movie, did he not just get an aura instead? ::frown:: Hmm... 12) Richard Harris as Dumbledore & Rickman as Snape: I like. I like a lot. 13) Zoe Wanamaker's (Madam Hooch's) EYES: "Duuuuuuude...what happened to your eyes?" Totally weird, but good in that "Oh look, magical folk are different to normal folk." 14) The Troll: Surely it looked like an ogre more than a troll? The first thing I heard in my mind was Mike Myers' Shrek going "I'm an O-GRRRRR!" 15) Hermione/Ron: Rupert Grint & Emma Watson are great. I like Ron's slightly London-y twang (but LOVE the fact that Harry speaks with a boarding school RP accent!), especially when he goes "She REALLY needs to sort her priorities out!". Hermione's just fab. Like like like. 16) Quirrell: Whoever the actor playing Quirrell is, he's very good. That fainting was really in character. == == == == == == == In general, I preferred the trailer to AI. Might go back tomorrow just for the trailer. ::cackle:: Perhaps they could just show the trailer for 145 minutes instead of AI? ::hopeful look:: I seriously welcome comments on this -- fire away :D --Ioan, off to claim 1 movie ticket, a SuperGiantMega-size coke & popcorn and a big bag of Milk Duds on the HPFGU-Moderators expense account ::grin:: ________________________________ John Walton -- john at walton.to "Prick us. Do we not bleed? Tickle us. Do we not laugh? Poison us. Do we not die?" "Nope. That's what *immortal* means." -John ________________________________ From neilward at dircon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 06:33:15 2001 From: neilward at dircon.co.uk (Neil Ward) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 07:33:15 +0100 Subject: WEEKLY DISCUSSIONS (correction)/ References: <002701c10153$9ac80e40$fb3770c2@c5s910j> Message-ID: <005f01c101f7$b726ae80$943470c2@c5s910j> No: HPFGUIDX 21737 I said, re. the weekly discussion summaries: <> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/Discussion%20Summaries/New Of course, I meant neilward at dircon.co.uk (neilward AT dircon DOT co DOT uk). Sorry! Neil ________________________________________ Flying Ford Anglia Mechanimagus Moderator "The cat's ginger fur was thick and fluffy, but it was definitely a bit bow-legged and its face looked grumpy and oddly squashed, as though it had run headlong into a brick wall" ["The Leaky Cauldron", PoA] Check out Very Frequently Asked Questions for everything to do with this club: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPforGrownups/files/VFAQ.htm From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Sun Jul 1 07:22:56 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:22:56 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] MOVIE: Trailer (John's Musings) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010701072256.58296.qmail@web14708.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21738 Yesterday I somehow succeeded in seeing at least the mini version of the trailer, so it's possible to comment: --- John Walton ha scritto: 2) The Music:

I like. I really like. Williams has done a fantastic job. Totally agree with you, only that, without knowing it was williams, I'd have guessed Danny Elfman,whose style he is rather shamelessly copying (sorry for that!) Now all I can do
is sit back and hope that the rumor of Celine Dion doing The Harry Potter
Song is false. (Caius, you've found your niche...)

11) The Wand:

I was surprised to see how thick and firm it was -- looked about an inch or
3/4 of an inch in diameter, and tapered. I was expecting 1/2 an inch or
less. I didn't see the wands in the trailer, but in some pic gallery: They certailnly ARE too thick- how would Mr. Ollivander in the Weighing of the Wands- ceremony say that wands are "flexible"? Liked scene; however, I think I recall red stars shooting out the end
in the book. In the movie, did he not just get an aura instead? ::frown::
Hmm...

12) Richard Harris as Dumbledore & Rickman as Snape:

I like. I like a lot.

Completely with you on this; must admit I am such a Snape-ist mostly because I've always imagined him like Rickman ;) And I just *have* to say this, even if I'll have to seal my windows for fear of incoming howlers: Harry is way too adorable, I just couldn't resist thinking how *much* Aunt MArge would have liked that boy!! Susanna/pigwidgeon37 I seriously welcome comments on this -- fire away :D

--Ioan, off to claim 1 movie ticket, a SuperGiantMega-size coke & popcorn
and a big bag of Milk Duds on the HPFGU-Moderators expense account ::grin::
________________________________

John Walton -- john at walton.to

"Prick us. Do we not bleed?
Tickle us. Do we not laugh?
Poison us. Do we not die?"

"Nope. That's what *immortal* means."
-John
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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 07:45:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 07:45:32 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Adorability (was John's Musings) In-Reply-To: <20010701072256.58296.qmail@web14708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9hmkes+nvd5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21739 Susanne ha scritto (is that right? I just lifted it from your post): > And I just *have* to say this, even if I'll have to > seal my windows for fear of incoming howlers: Harry is > way too adorable, I just couldn't resist thinking how > *much* Aunt MArge would have liked that boy!! Nah, I don't think it's a problem. Even before the movie, we knew Harry was way cuter than Dudley, but the Dursleys' Dursleyism makes them impervious to any of Harry's good qualities. Marge only has eyes for her neffipoo. Amy Z From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 08:08:36 2001 From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 08:08:36 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Adorability (was John's Musings) In-Reply-To: <9hmkes+nvd5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hmlq4+9901@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21740 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > Susanne ha scritto (is that right? I just lifted it from your > post): > > > And I just *have* to say this, even if I'll have to > > seal my windows for fear of incoming howlers: Harry is > > way too adorable, I just couldn't resist thinking how > > *much* Aunt MArge would have liked that boy!! > > Nah, I don't think it's a problem. Even before the movie, we knew > Harry was way cuter than Dudley, but the Dursleys' Dursleyism makes > them impervious to any of Harry's good qualities. Marge only has eyes > for her neffipoo. > > Amy Z I agree with you, Amy. I do think Daniel is very cute though. I love the smile on his face when he shows Ron the scar, and I love the way he reads his letter. I think Daniel, from what I've seen so far, seems to be playing him with the right amount of vulnerability and reticence. He seems to be very good at holding back. I like it. Catherine From r_e_d_queen at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 08:54:32 2001 From: r_e_d_queen at yahoo.com (r_e_d_queen at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 08:54:32 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Nimbus and invisibility cloak Message-ID: <9hmog8+dr8e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21741 Crys wrote: "The broomstick. Came in a box. Period. Cope. Fix it. It was a big deal in the book." For some reason I always envisioned the Nimbus as wrapped in kraft paper just like they showed it in the trailer. In SS/PS10 JKR describes it as "a long, thin package" and a "large parcel". But the clincher is when "Malfoy seized the package from Harry and felt it." How could he feel the broomstick if it was in a shipping box? Granted, if this is the case, it's not a very good way for McGonagall to keep the Nimbus a secret. suebaru_27 wrote: "If you watch the scene where Hermione is performing the Petrificus Totalus curse on Neville, you'll notice Ron has a large piece of cloth over his right shoulder. Then look at the scene where a hand pushes open a door to the library, it's a red sweater w/ something over the arm. Then Harry is in the library looking through the books. On the counter is the same piece of cloth that Ron had over his shoulder. Could it be the Invisibility cloak?" Yes, I have to agree. The blue cloak with gold stars and moons on it appears to be the invisibility cloak. Which is most disappointing -- here's JKR's description of the invisibility cloak: "Something fluid and silvery gray went slithering to the floor where it lay in gleaming folds. Ron gasped...Harry picked the shining, silvery cloth off the floor. It was strange to the touch , like water woven into material." (SS/PS12) And Invisiblity cloaks are made from the Demiguise which is covered in "long, fine, silky, silvery hair." (FB) I was really looking forward to witnessing this strange, otherworldly fabric in the movie, instead they've seem to have replaced it with a cliche. But overall, I'm really excited with what I've seen so far and think they've they've done a great job of capturing JKR's vision. (Have to have something to nitpick at until Book 5 is here to occupy my attention.) Red Queen From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Sun Jul 1 11:07:41 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:07:41 -0000 Subject: Book 5 Message-ID: <9hn09t+rms4@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21742 I did some crystal-gazing this morning and the orb showed me the exact setting of the first chapter of OoP: Imagine a camera taking in Harley Street, London, then slowing down and finally stopping at a brass plaque saying: Ethelbert & Heloise Granger Dentists Camera takes in Harley Street again, zooms at two black-haired men in billowing black cloaks, coming from opposite ends of the street, obviously heading for the same place (dentists): It's Severus and Sirius, they have appointments at 10 (one with Mr., one with Mrs. Granger) for the first whitening treatment of their yellow teeth. Reluctantly, because they still don't like each other very much, they enter and have to wait (in spite of being the first patients of the day) one hour, sitting-which is even more bothering- on a love-seat, as there's no ohter chair. As they don't want to talk, they read magazines, silently wondering at the non-moving pictures. When Sirius sees a pic of Camilla Parker-Bowles at Ascot, wearing a most dreadful pink, lace-trimmed hat, he suddenly says: "Oh dear, she's got a hat like mum's!" Severus, already VERY bored by Muggle magazines, casts a short look and says. "Impossible, MY mother used to wear hats like that!" As time goes by, they exchange childhood memories and discover they're brothers. Their mother has put a Memory Spell (obviously too weak) on Severus, before shoving him off into a wizard orphanage. Tears, embraces, apologies, promises.......fade- out OK, I'm going to have to nail my head to the floor, but I just liked it Susanna From heymynameisabird at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 12:28:23 2001 From: heymynameisabird at hotmail.com (Helen N) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 12:28:23 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trailer!Draco's Hair Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21743 << Now onto my favorite character-Draco. Now I've got a problem with hair. IT DOESN"T MOVE! I have not seen a lock of that kid's hair move in any scene. Now, granted it's all slicked back and nice looking, but what 11 year old uses enough hairspray and gel to make his hair resistant to a tornado? Please for the love of god make-up people, lay off the shlack! >> That does bother me, but in some ways I can imagine Draco using all sorts of styling stuff just so his hair doesn't even fall one bit out of place... What gets me is doesn't Draco have really light blonde hair? Like silver/white? *thinks for a second* Then again, does it say that in canon? I may just have been reading to much fanfiction. Love Helen --------------------------------------------------------------- Helmione Nightingranger - 87% obsessed with Harry Potter --------------------------------------------------------------- "... here is the deepest secret nobody knows (here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud and the sky of the sky of a tree called life; which grows higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide) and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)..." ~ E. E. Cummings --------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From koinonia02 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 14:02:13 2001 From: koinonia02 at yahoo.com (koinonia02 at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:02:13 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: one more word (okay, lots) on Horribly dissapointed In-Reply-To: <3B3DF678.CD4A5B57@texas.net> Message-ID: <9hnah5+kdv5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21744 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > An example here from the trailer is the clearly NON-dungeon where Snape > says that purring line to Harry. We ALL know the potions classroom is in > the dungeons. No windows. Period. So in this instance, the movie is > inarguably WRONG. But. But. But. Watch the trailer and look at the angle > from which they introduce Snape. You're looking up at him, and those > windows (lovely, by the way, if inaccurate) backlight him so that he is > a towering, indistinct, threatening figure. Whose line parallels this in > its ambiguity--soft, calm, measured, but clearly powerfully threatening. > So I totally applaud this change; it took the "feel" that the books had, > and translated it into a faithful visual--faithful to the "feel," not to > the letter of the book. I just have to disagree. I don't want to see windows behind Snape. He teaches in the dungeons. Snape and the dungeons go hand in hand. It's the darkness. That should be the 'feel'. I would much rather see Snape in the dark with only torches. That would be much more effective than windows with the light streaming in. But maybe the Hogwarts dungeons have windows ;-) Also, I know I'm taking my life in my hands, but I never wanted to see Rickman as Snape and I'm disappointed in what I see. Hope the big screen is better than what I've seen so far. >I would rather have a movie that is, well, > magical in its scope and cinematic sweep, and not entirely faithful to > all the little details, than a movie which renders each and every detail > perfectly, but which falls flat. It doesn't have to be entirely faithful in 'every little detail' but how hard is it to: Have Ron taller than Harry? Have the right hair color on the actors? Ever heard of Clairol? Hagrid? He's half-giant - it's important - make him that way. Snape is a very young man with *shoulder length* hair and sallow skin. His skin color and hair are a big part of his description. Make him look that way. Not that ugly chin length thing he is wearing. How about a little yellow coloring! The above are important and fairly easy to take care of. There are things I do like about what I've seen: I basically like the kids. I like Argus, the wand maker, D. Alley, the castle, Madam Hooch..... All in all I'm sure the movie will be fine. Koinonia From shall at sfiweb.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 14:26:07 2001 From: shall at sfiweb.demon.co.uk (Susan Hall) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:26:07 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why was Harry sent to live with the Dursleys? Message-ID: <000001c10239$c499f4e0$0101010a@w98-1> No: HPFGUIDX 21745 >However, I am with you in that I totally disagree with "he would have > big head if he was brought up in the magical world." I think Dumbeldore is not telling McGonagall all his thoughts on the matter. Let's suppose that Harry could be brought up in the wizarding world. Let's also suppose that Dumbledore considers the available candidates, who have to be (1) willing to bring up baby (2) capable of bringing up baby (without letting it be eaten by wild animals, leaving it in the pub or absentmindedly putting it out with the used cat litter or feeding it experimental potions) (3) not in jail (4) not in St Mungos (5) not in likely contact with the old Death Eater crowd (6) not so prominent in the recent unpleasantness as to be the target of revenge attacks by ex Death Eaters in their own right (7) not so incompetent at DADA as to be unable to fend off any revenge attacks that might occur. The only realistic answer of the one's we've met are the Weaseleys. But if Harry had been brought up by the Weaseleys while he would have had a happy secure and supportive childhood he would have absorbed the same prejudices about were wolves and giants that Ron has. One of the big advantages he has is that because he spent the first 11 years of his life as an oppressed minority persecuted for being different he brings a level of empathy to his dealings with others that Ron (and other wizard children) lack. Susan From shall at sfiweb.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 14:28:36 2001 From: shall at sfiweb.demon.co.uk (Susan Hall) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 15:28:36 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why was Harry sent to live with the Dursleys? Message-ID: <000201c1023a$1d498240$0101010a@w98-1> No: HPFGUIDX 21746 >However, I am with you in that I totally disagree with "he would have > big head if he was brought up in the magical world." I think Dumbeldore is not telling McGonagall all his thoughts on the matter. Let's suppose that Harry could be brought up in the wizarding world. Let's also suppose that Dumbledore considers the available candidates, who have to be (1) willing to bring up baby (2) capable of bringing up baby (without letting it be eaten by wild animals, leaving it in the pub or absentmindedly putting it out with the used cat litter or feeding it experimental potions) (3) not in jail (4) not in St Mungos (5) not in likely contact with the old Death Eater crowd (6) not so prominent in the recent unpleasantness as to be the target of revenge attacks by ex Death Eaters in their own right (7) not so incompetent at DADA as to be unable to fend off any revenge attacks that might occur. The only realistic answer of the one's we've met are the Weaseleys. But if Harry had been brought up by the Weaseleys while he would have had a happy secure and supportive childhood he would have absorbed the same prejudices about were wolves and giants that Ron has. One of the big advantages he has is that because he spent the first 11 years of his life as an oppressed minority persecuted for being different he brings a level of empathy to his dealings with others that Ron (and other wizard children) lack. Susan From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Sun Jul 1 15:03:21 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:03:21 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why was Harry sent to live with the Dursleys? In-Reply-To: <000201c1023a$1d498240$0101010a@w98-1> Message-ID: <20010701150321.789.qmail@web14701.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21747 --- Susan Hall ha scritto: But if
Harry had been brought up by the Weaseleys while he would have had a happy
secure and supportive childhood he would have absorbed the same prejudices
about were wolves and giants that Ron has. One of the big advantages he has
is that because he spent the first 11 years of his life as an oppressed
minority persecuted for being different he brings a level of empathy to his
dealings with others that Ron (and other wizard children) lack.

Susan

Another advantage I wouldn't underrate is that Harry, growing up in the wizarding world, would have lived in constant fear of Voldemort. Part of his ability to face V. comes from having learned about V.'s existence rather late. Sure enough, from the Dursleys he would never have heard anything about the whole story and I think that was exactly Dumbledore's intention. Therefore, letting the child grow up in a strictly-Muggle ambiente was the only solution and the only available Muggles were the Dursleys. IMO, no.4 Privet Drive must be under close observation 1) in order to give Harry more protection 2) to make sure no wizard accidentally stumbles over Harry and, if that happens, to put a memory spell on him/her 3) to ensure that Harry doesn't do too obvious Accidental magic It's a bit like the witness protection programmes. Susanna
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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Sun Jul 1 15:20:56 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:20:56 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MOVIE: one more word (okay, lots) on Horribly dissapointed In-Reply-To: <9hnah5+kdv5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010701152056.7888.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21748 --- koinonia02 at yahoo.com ha scritto: I just have to disagree. I don't want to see windows behind Snape.
He teaches in the dungeons. Snape and the dungeons go hand in hand.
It's the darkness. That should be the 'feel'. I would much rather
see Snape in the dark with only torches I totally agree, not only for the "feel", but mostly because snape was a Slytherin, he's head of the house of Slytherin and their common room is a dungeon. Choosing a different setting completely neglects those very important facts which IMHO are not merely details. Besides, I can't imagine just why anybody would make such a change: They had to shoot the potions classroom on location, whereas a dungeon would have been a (much less expensive) studio shooting.
Also, I know I'm taking my life in my hands, but I never wanted to
see Rickman as Snape and I'm disappointed in what I see. Hope the
big screen is better than what I've seen so far. Yes, saying that you're really really taking risks- I'm looking for a big enough envelope to send you Bubotuber pus wrapped in a curse ;) But honestly, I think that Snape has to be done by a really good actor in the first place and that's a requirement Rickman certainly meets. It doesn't have to be entirely faithful in 'every little detail' but
how hard is it to:
Hagrid? He's half-giant - it's important - make him that way. True, but it would require a lot of technical stuff, blue screen and computer animation etc., and I imagine that an even very good child actor might have difficulties in doing all the hagrid scenes convincingly that way. Snape is a very young man Well, not *that* young, but I agree that rickman is a bit too old. Susanna _______ADMIN________ADMIN_______ADMIN__________

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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Sun Jul 1 16:09:06 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:09:06 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) Message-ID: <9hnhv2+m7r0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21749 I just went into a german HP site that contains a quite impressive lexicon and discovered the following: One of the 5 St. Cornelius of the catholic church was a pope and MARTYR, who died in 253, after a series of CONFLICTS WITHIN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH and guess the name of the next pope ??!! LUCIUS! That's interesting, isn't it?? Susanna (once more justifying her ID pigwidgeon by hopping up and down excitedly) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 17:16:17 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:16:17 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <9hnhv2+m7r0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hnlt1+909e@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21750 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pigwidgeon37 at y... wrote: > I just went into a german HP site that contains a quite impressive > lexicon and discovered the following: > > One of the 5 St. Cornelius of the catholic church was a pope and > MARTYR, who died in 253, after a series of CONFLICTS WITHIN THE > CATHOLIC CHURCH and guess the name of the next pope ??!! LUCIUS! > > That's interesting, isn't it?? Cool! What kind of reputation did Pope Lucius have? Anything in there about his beating his servants or getting his kicks torturing pagans? Amy Z From joym999 at aol.com Sun Jul 1 17:20:21 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (joym999 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:20:21 -0000 Subject: Contest, was Re: Trailer: Scar In-Reply-To: <9hm7b7+9rnk@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hnm4l+ktm6@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21751 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > warming up for this week's contest (are L.O.O.N. members eligible, or > is it one of those "no employees of Yadayada Corp. nor their family > members may participate" deals?) Anyone may participate, L.O.O.N. member or not, except for that Lardbottom character, who has been demoted to janitor. --Joywitch From aiz24 at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 17:24:41 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 17:24:41 -0000 Subject: Why is Harry less prejudiced? (was sent to live with the Dursleys) In-Reply-To: <000001c10239$c499f4e0$0101010a@w98-1> Message-ID: <9hnmcp+18l0@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21752 Susan Hall wrote: >But if > Harry had been brought up by the Weaseleys while he would have had a happy > secure and supportive childhood he would have absorbed the same prejudices > about were wolves and giants that Ron has. One of the big advantages he has > is that because he spent the first 11 years of his life as an oppressed > minority persecuted for being different he brings a level of empathy to his > dealings with others that Ron (and other wizard children) lack. Interesting take on Harry. I had just read it as his not having those prejudices because he's ignorant of "how things are supposed to be" in the magical world--an ignorance that helps him see assumptions and say "how come?" (Hermione does the same.) Yours is a nice addition to my mental picture. Wizard children ought to have that empathy too, since wizards are an oppressed minority persecuted for being different, or were recently enough that it should be a part of the culture . . . but it doesn't always work that way. People forget very quickly what it's like to be on the bottom. Amy Z From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Sun Jul 1 17:53:57 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:53:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <9hnlt1+909e@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010701175357.24256.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21754 No, certainly not, we aren't yet in the age of "bad popes", in the 3rd century it's rather the christians who get kicked. Well, anyway, there isn't that much about Pope Lucius: good thing is, he was pope only for 8 months and 10 days- so if there's any analogy, he won't even last as long as an average DADA teacher;) Susanna --- Amy Z ha scritto: Cool! What kind of reputation did Pope Lucius have? Anything in
there about his beating his servants or getting his kicks torturing
pagans?

Amy Z


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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From saitaina at wizzards.net Sun Jul 1 17:50:37 2001 From: saitaina at wizzards.net (Saitaina) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:50:37 -0700 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trailer!Draco's Hair References: Message-ID: <007a01c10256$5777da40$174e28d1@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 21755 He does have silver blonde hair..but do you know how hard it is to achieve that colour un-naturally? Thomas Felton has light brown hair, which would give him a leg up in the bleaching department but it would take close to 5 months to do and most likely he would lose his hair in the process. I myself have gotten as close to silver blonde as possible with my gold blonde (yes I know there are various shades between gold blonde and silver blonde but you try bleaching black hair silver blonde) ----- Original Message ----- From: Helen N To: Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 5:28 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trailer!Draco's Hair > > > << Now onto my favorite character-Draco. Now I've got a problem with hair. > IT > DOESN"T MOVE! I have not seen a lock of that kid's hair move in any > scene. > Now, granted it's all slicked back and nice looking, but what 11 year old > uses enough hairspray and gel to make his hair resistant to a tornado? > Please for the love of god make-up people, lay off the shlack! > >> > That does bother me, but in some ways I can imagine Draco using all sorts of > styling stuff just so his hair doesn't even fall one bit out of place... > What gets me is doesn't Draco have really light blonde hair? Like > silver/white? > > *thinks for a second* > > Then again, does it say that in canon? I may just have been reading to much > fanfiction. > > Love > Helen > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Helmione Nightingranger - 87% obsessed with Harry Potter > --------------------------------------------------------------- > "... here is the deepest secret nobody knows (here is the root > of the root and the bud of the bud and the sky of the sky of a > tree called life; which grows higher than the soul can hope or > mind can hide) and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars > apart i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)..." > ~ E. E. Cummings > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > > _______ADMIN________ADMIN_______ADMIN__________ > > All OT (Off-Topic) messages must be posted to the HPFGU-OTChatter YahooGroup, to make it easier for everyone to sort through the messages they want to read and those they don't. > > Therefore...if you want to be able to post and read OT messages, point your cyberbroomstick at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter to join now! For more details, contact the Moderator Team at hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com. > > (To unsubscribe, send a blank email to hpforgrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com) > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > From ender_w at msn.com Sun Jul 1 13:15:05 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:15:05 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] MOVIE: Harry's haircolor References: <9hm997+sif5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <002d01c1022f$d9517fc0$12421e3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 21756 ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy Z To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 12:34 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trailer disappointment and other syndromes Amy wrote: On a related issue, though, I can't agree with Steve that we can consider elements like Hooch's whistle anything like canon just because JKR did so much consulting on the film. Just for starters, we know that the film explicitly contradicts canon in spots, e.g. Harry's hair is jet-black, period, no room for negotiation, in the books. JKR obviously didn't care enough to insist on it--apparently the climactic scene of Book 7 will not hinge on the color of Harry's hair, in case any of us were wondering--but brown hair still isn't canon. Where in the books is Harry's hair described as "jet-black" (as opposed to just "black")? I'm just curious about all of the discussion of Harry's hair color. I am someone who is almost always described as having "black" hair, but it's not. It's brown. In fact, I have a friend whose hair I have described as black, but she claims mine is even darker than hers...yet red and brown highlights are still very evident in mine. The point is, true, jet-black, (no red or brown whatsoever) hair is extremely rare in Caucasians. I am not JKR, so I can't presume to know how she pictured Harry's hair. Maybe she does see him with blue-black hair...or maybe she sees him with the very very dark brown that most people would describe as black. I'm curious: a question, or a poll, rather, for those who object to Dan Radcliffe's haircolor: Do you think it's just too light of a brown and would be happy if it were only darker? or do you want to see true jet-black hair? just curious. Not trying to start an argument...really...I promise. ender [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From margdean at erols.com Sun Jul 1 17:27:24 2001 From: margdean at erols.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 13:27:24 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MOVIE: one more word (okay, lots) on Horribly dissapointed References: <20010701152056.7888.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3B3F5D7C.707FFFB8@erols.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21757 Susanne Schmid wrote: > Besides, I can't imagine just why anybody would make > such a change: They had to shoot the potions classroom > on location, whereas a dungeon would have been a (much > less expensive) studio shooting. Not necessarily. AFAIK the "location" was one they were using for Hogwarts-in-general anyway, whereas if they'd moved to a studio to shoot the dungeon separately they would have had to BUILD the set. Building extra sets costs money. --Margaret Dean From rodeodangerqueen at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 18:15:34 2001 From: rodeodangerqueen at yahoo.com (rodeodangerqueen at yahoo.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:15:34 -0000 Subject: MOVIE Trailer/Appeal to Non Readers In-Reply-To: <9hm56c+tibl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hnpc6+ncf9@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21758 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., jacqbeagle at b... wrote: > > I have a couple of questions though- how do you think the trailer > > (1st or 2nd) appeals to people who haven't read the books? What > > scenes could they include that would best peak their interest? > > > > -Arden > > More Fluffy. > > My older sister has been interested in seeing Fluffy ever since she > saw the plush toy of him. Her concern is that he will look like he > belongs (effects wise) in Clash of the Titans. > > Rowena > who will be comparing the HP and LOTR movies (and probably love both)! Hi, I don't know if it was done deliberately so he wouldn't be "TOO" scary for small children, but I too am concerned about Fluffy coming off like he belongs effects wise in CLASH OF THE TITANS. Let me also remind everyone that CLASH is coming up on being a TWENTY-year-old movie...if it hasn't already. My one concern about an otherwise FABULOUS trailer has been the appearance of Fluffy...more than whether the figures within portraits are moving or not...and arguments have started between myself and others as to whether they are or aren't moving (depending on the size of the picture...I sometimes see the figures moving...or perhaps it is an optical illusion of my own making (wishful thinking)?) But yes, I hope they work on that three-headed- dog a little more. Sometimes effects aren't "final" when they put out these trailers. N From mgrantwich at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 18:20:38 2001 From: mgrantwich at yahoo.com (Magda Grantwich) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MOVIE: one more word (okay, lots) on Horribly dissapointed In-Reply-To: <3B3F5D7C.707FFFB8@erols.com> Message-ID: <20010701182038.70523.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21759 > Not necessarily. AFAIK the "location" was one they were using > for Hogwarts-in-general anyway, whereas if they'd moved to a > studio to shoot the dungeon separately they would have had to > BUILD the set. Building extra sets costs money. > > > --Margaret Dean > I'm neutral on the whole dungeons/light-streaming-in issue but I did want to say that I don't think money would have been that big a deal on a film that is supposed to cost $200 million. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From PUMPKIN322 at MSN.COM Sun Jul 1 18:36:25 2001 From: PUMPKIN322 at MSN.COM (PUMPKIN322 at MSN.COM) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 18:36:25 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Harry's haircolor In-Reply-To: <002d01c1022f$d9517fc0$12421e3f@satellite> Message-ID: <9hnqj9+cs2h@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21760 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "ender_w" wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Amy Z > To: HPforGrownups at y... > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 12:34 AM > Subject: [HPforGrownups] Trailer disappointment and other syndromes > > > Amy wrote: > > On a related issue, though, I can't agree with Steve that we can > consider elements like Hooch's whistle anything like canon just > because JKR did so much consulting on the film. Just for starters, we > know that the film explicitly contradicts canon in spots, e.g. Harry's > hair is jet-black, period, no room for negotiation, in the books. JKR > obviously didn't care enough to insist on it--apparently the climactic > scene of Book 7 will not hinge on the color of Harry's hair, in case > any of us were wondering--but brown hair still isn't canon. > > > Where in the books is Harry's hair described as "jet-black" (as opposed to just "black")? I'm just curious about all of the discussion of Harry's hair color. I am someone who is almost always described as having "black" hair, but it's not. It's brown. In fact, I have a friend whose hair I have described as black, but she claims mine is even darker than hers...yet red and brown highlights are still very evident in mine. > The point is, true, jet-black, (no red or brown whatsoever) hair is extremely rare in Caucasians. I am not JKR, so I can't presume to know how she pictured Harry's hair. Maybe she does see him with blue- black hair...or maybe she sees him with the very very dark brown that most people would describe as black. I'm curious: a question, or a poll, rather, for those who object to Dan Radcliffe's haircolor: Do you think it's just too light of a brown and would be happy if it were only darker? or do you want to see true jet-black hair? > just curious. Not trying to start an argument...really...I promise. > > ender > > > ender, I noticed Radcliffe's brown hair also. It doesn't bother me much, but I did remember the described image of Harry as having darker hair. I think the filmmakers should have dyed his hair. Would have been more true to form. But it's not that big a deal. Pumpkin. From kabuki_darling at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 20:50:32 2001 From: kabuki_darling at hotmail.com (Sylph ~*~) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:50:32 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21761 *looks startled* well!! I really wouldn't be surprised at all if Fudge died, but Lucius as the next Minister of Magic? Yeuch...hopefully that will not happen. Although, if it does, I'm sure Dumbeldore will somehow find a way to protect everyone...? That is very cool...what's the site URL? Is the text in German? Hopefully not... Sylph >From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very >important) >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:09:06 -0000 > >I just went into a german HP site that contains a quite impressive >lexicon and discovered the following: > >One of the 5 St. Cornelius of the catholic church was a pope and >MARTYR, who died in 253, after a series of CONFLICTS WITHIN THE >CATHOLIC CHURCH and guess the name of the next pope ??!! LUCIUS! > >That's interesting, isn't it?? > >Susanna (once more justifying her ID pigwidgeon by hopping up and >down excitedly) > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From kabuki_darling at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 20:56:54 2001 From: kabuki_darling at hotmail.com (Sylph ~*~) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:56:54 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] MOVIE: Harry's haircolor Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21762 > Where in the books is Harry's hair described as "jet-black" (as opposed >to just "black")? I'm just curious about all of the discussion of Harry's >hair color. I am someone who is almost always described as having "black" >hair, but it's not. It's brown. In fact, I have a friend whose hair I >have described as black, but she claims mine is even darker than hers...yet >red and brown highlights are still very evident in mine. > The point is, true, jet-black, (no red or brown whatsoever) hair is >extremely rare in Caucasians. I am not JKR, so I can't presume to know how >she pictured Harry's hair. Maybe she does see him with blue-black >hair...or maybe she sees him with the very very dark brown that most people >would describe as black. I'm curious: a question, or a poll, rather, for >those who object to Dan Radcliffe's haircolor: Do you think it's just too >light of a brown and would be happy if it were only darker? or do you want >to see true jet-black hair? > just curious. Not trying to start an argument...really...I promise. > > ender > > Not only is it rare for Caucasions to have jet black hair, over here in America, most asain people (kids) don't have jet-black hair. I'm Chinese, and my hair is definitely not black. However, I have always imagined Harry's hair as jet-black, and it would really look a lot nicer with emerald-green eyes. (Come to think of it, does Daniel Radcliffe have green eyes?) I can, however, understand them not changing his hair. If I were in a movie, I wouldn't want to dye my hair. The important part is the acting. Sylph _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From ilovbrian_99 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 21:08:13 2001 From: ilovbrian_99 at yahoo.com (Melanie Brackney) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 14:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <9hnhv2+m7r0@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010701210813.36699.qmail@web10906.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21763 That is scarry, however, I already knew about that. Never really applied it to Harry Potter...do we know if JKR has that much knowledge in Catholic Church history? She would have almost had to do a great deal of background study on the church. Melanie --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Sun Jul 1 21:16:31 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:16:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20010701211631.13433.qmail@web14704.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21764 Yes, the text is in german. Anyway, the address is http://www.rudihein.de, I think there is an english version as well, if I'm not mistaken. But it wouldn't be nice, would it, to imagine Lucius as the next MoM. Let's see whether JKR has really done such an awful lot of research or maybe it's just a coincidence! Susanna/pigwidgeon 37 --- Sylph ~*~ ha scritto:
*looks startled* well!!
I really wouldn't be surprised at all if Fudge died, but Lucius as the next
Minister of Magic? Yeuch...hopefully that will not happen. Although, if it
does, I'm sure Dumbeldore will somehow find a way to protect everyone...?
That is very cool...what's the site URL? Is the text in German? Hopefully
not...

Sylph


>From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it
>Reply-To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com
>To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [HPforGrownups] Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very
>important)
>Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:09:06 -0000
>
>I just went into a german HP site that contains a quite impressive
>lexicon and discovered the following:
>
>One of the 5 St. Cornelius of the catholic church was a pope and
>MARTYR, who died in 253, after a series of CONFLICTS WITHIN THE
>CATHOLIC CHURCH and guess the name of the next pope ??!! LUCIUS!
>
>That's interesting, isn't it??
>
>Susanna (once more justifying her ID pigwidgeon by hopping up and
>down excitedly)
>

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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From ilovbrian_99 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 1 21:36:59 2001 From: ilovbrian_99 at yahoo.com (Melanie Brackney) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 14:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Book 5 In-Reply-To: <9hn09t+rms4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010701213659.64250.qmail@web10905.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21765 LOL..that reminded me...we are all curious about the mysterious location that Harry will apparently visit in the next book. I have my suspicions about where this mysterious location might be and we have discussed it at great lenghts on this site. However, has anyone ever thought maybe it's just going to be as simple as hermione's house? LOL....I mean Harry's never been there, has he? Melanie --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk Sun Jul 1 22:18:31 2001 From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:18:31 -0000 Subject: Book 5 In-Reply-To: <9hn09t+rms4@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9ho7jn+jefq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21766 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pigwidgeon37 at y... wrote: > I did some crystal-gazing this morning and the orb showed me the > exact setting of the first chapter of OoP: Imagine a camera taking in > Harley Street, London, then slowing down and finally stopping at a > brass plaque saying: > > Ethelbert & Heloise Granger > Dentists > > Camera takes in Harley Street again, zooms at two black-haired men in > billowing black cloaks, coming from opposite ends of the street, > obviously heading for the same place (dentists): It's Severus and > Sirius, they have appointments at 10 (one with Mr., one with Mrs. > Granger) for the first whitening treatment of their yellow teeth. > Reluctantly, because they still don't like each other very much, they > enter and have to wait (in spite of being the first patients of the > day) one hour, sitting-which is even more bothering- on a love- seat, > as there's no ohter chair. As they don't want to talk, they read > magazines, silently wondering at the non-moving pictures. > When Sirius sees a pic of Camilla Parker-Bowles at Ascot, wearing a > most dreadful pink, lace-trimmed hat, he suddenly says: "Oh dear, > she's got a hat like mum's!" Severus, already VERY bored by Muggle > magazines, casts a short look and says. "Impossible, MY mother used > to wear hats like that!" As time goes by, they exchange childhood > memories and discover they're brothers. Their mother has put a Memory > Spell (obviously too weak) on Severus, before shoving him off into a > wizard orphanage. Tears, embraces, apologies, promises.......fade- out > > OK, I'm going to have to nail my head to the floor, but I just liked > it > Susanna OK, I'm going to be really nit-picky here. (Apologise in advance). Harley Street is famous in London for the medical profession, but these are specifically doctors. Wimpole Street, which is parallel to Harley Street, is where the dentists hang out. I did say it was nitpicky, but it's true all the same. Catherine From MaeDaWitch at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 22:40:00 2001 From: MaeDaWitch at hotmail.com (Mae Silverpaws) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:40:00 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Trailer/Appeal to Non Readers Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21767 HI all,,,,, This is also MY first post to the list (HI HI).. I know this wont be my last that is for sure.....I'm Mae...... My 11 yr old son and I have been trying to det my hubby to read the HP books ever since my son got his copies of the first three books going on two christams' ago.,... but hubby is not a big reader so he just promised and never did,.,,,, Well this past Jan we moved from Pa. to Ga. and I talked him into buying book one on tape for the ride down with the boys.. Hubby is now a big fan and his fav. character is Hagrid... We went and saw Atlantis (on it's opening nite-- it was a good moie BTW) and hubby who had never seen the trailers was just rooted to his seat with his mouth open... He was so excited after that trailer... When we got home from Atlantis hubby ran right to the computer and went to the HP site became a Hogworts student got a wand and played on the site for a good hour.. Now everydau I here.. "When's the movie? I have to wait how long??" Another Hp fan is born LOL... Mae >From: sandyjoys at yahoo.com >Reply-To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com >To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com >Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Trailer/Appeal to Non Readers >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 03:15:25 -0000 > > > > > I have a couple of questions though- how do you think the trailer > > (1st or 2nd) appeals to people who haven't read the books? What > > scenes could they include that would best peak their interest? > > > > -Arden > >Hey all, >This is my first post here, ::waves:: >Anyway, my husband has not read the books. I showed him the first >trailer and he was like "Eh." Because the first trailer it is just >shots of all the different characters, who are instantly recognizable >to those who have read. But we went to AI last night (I too, enjoyed >the trailer more than the movie that followed) and he was in almost >as much awe as I was. He is now excited to see the movie and has >promised me he would read the books ASAP. Something I have been >pestering him about since I read them. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From MMMfanfic at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 22:40:03 2001 From: MMMfanfic at hotmail.com (MMMfanfic at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:40:03 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: one more word (okay, lots) on Horribly dissapointed In-Reply-To: <9hnah5+kdv5@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9ho8s3+h5bn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21768 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., koinonia02 at y... wrote: > Also, I know I'm taking my life in my hands, but I never wanted to > see Rickman as Snape and I'm disappointed in what I see. Hope the > big screen is better than what I've seen so far. > Snape is a very young man with *shoulder length* hair and sallow > skin. His skin color and hair are a big part of his description. > Make him look that way. Not that ugly chin length thing he is > wearing. How about a little yellow coloring! The role of Snape is always hardest to play and hardest to cast. When they first mention movie, my worst fear is WB will have a total cheese out evil movie Snape and strips away all the subtlety of his character. Yes, all your objections are valid but Rickman does have Snape's feel to him, you have to admit. Not many actors can play Snape and Rickman happens to be the one closest in both looks and mannerism. Even if he's a bit old. Also, I'll settle for chin length hair and an older Snape in exchange for that distinctive silky voice. Doesn't the line 'Mr. Potter, our new celebrity' send a shiver down your spine? The voice melts me down. Period. It's much better than what I've heard on both the Fry and Dale version. Dale's Snape is ridiculously oily; Fry is better (may be he's channeling Rickman) but doesn't sound menancing enough. Alan Rickman strikes the balance for me. From rcraigharman at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 23:13:03 2001 From: rcraigharman at hotmail.com (rcraigharman at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:13:03 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <20010701175357.24256.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9hoapv+d2kl@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21769 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Susanne Schmid wrote: > No, certainly not, we aren't yet in the age of "bad > popes", in the 3rd century it's rather the christians > who get kicked. > Well, anyway, there isn't that much about Pope Lucius: > good thing is, he was pope only for 8 months and 10 > days- so if there's any analogy, he won't even last as > long as an average DADA teacher;) However, while Lucius I had a short reign as pope from 253 to 254, he did grant his forgiveness to the lapsed, who had given up the religion after having embraced it voluntarily. Hmmm, perhaps a clue to a short reign of Lucius Malfoy as Minister of Magic, during which time he exculpates the Death Eaters?! Strange things indeed.... ....Craig, who also loved the HP trailer but hated AI.... From rcraigharman at hotmail.com Sun Jul 1 23:22:59 2001 From: rcraigharman at hotmail.com (rcraigharman at hotmail.com) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:22:59 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Harry's haircolo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9hobcj+f5gs@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21770 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Sylph ~*~" wrote: > > However, I have always imagined Harry's hair as jet-black, and it > would really look a lot nicer with emerald-green eyes. (Come to > think of it, does Daniel Radcliffe have green eyes?) The trailer clearly shows his eyes as green, but I suspect that he is wearing colored contact lenses. I went as Harry for Halloween last year**, and for my costume, I procured green contacts which worked surprisingly well on my brown pupiled eyes. ....Craig **Appropriately, I scored as being most like Ron on the "Which Harry Potter character are you like?" quiz. From jll3sonex at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 01:59:59 2001 From: jll3sonex at hotmail.com (jll3sonex at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 01:59:59 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <9hoapv+d2kl@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hokj0+rrk2@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21771 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., rcraigharman at h... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Susanne Schmid wrote: > > No, certainly not, we aren't yet in the age of "bad > > popes", in the 3rd century it's rather the christians > > who get kicked. > > Well, anyway, there isn't that much about Pope Lucius: > > good thing is, he was pope only for 8 months and 10 > > days- so if there's any analogy, he won't even last as > > long as an average DADA teacher;) > > However, while Lucius I had a short reign as pope from 253 to 254, > he did grant his forgiveness to the lapsed, who had given up the > religion after having embraced it voluntarily. Hmmm, perhaps a > clue to a short reign of Lucius Malfoy as Minister of Magic, during > which time he exculpates the Death Eaters?! Strange things indeed.... > > ....Craig, who also loved the HP trailer but hated AI.... Hi! First post in this forum - I've been lurking for a few days and thought I'd comment here... I'm not sure at all that Malfoy is going to be the next MoM - I think he's come out too far as being on Voldemort's side to be acceptable to the vast majority of the Wizarding society. Then again, politics is politics... My thoughts on the whole situation are perhaps a bit obtuse, but after recently rereading Churchill's history of WW2 I think I see certain parallels. Fudge, IMO, is Chamberlain. He sees that Voldemort (Hitler) is again developing a power base, but not one that lends itself to easy detection and disbarrment. (Can you disbar a Wizard? Dis-Wand, perhaps?) Instead of facing the problem head on, he's going to deal with it by ignoring it as long as he can and then hoping to negotiate. Dumbledore is Churchill. There's a problem, he sees there's a problem, it's got to be dealt with before it gets worse, but the problem is getting high enough in the Ministry of Magic to be able to DO something constructive about it. Being Head of Hogwarts is a great honor, but I feel it's rather a side road that he's managed to get himself on that has a great deal of status and not too much actual usable power when it comes to getting things done. At least, through normal channels. The Death Eaters are the SS and SA - they enjoy the dirty work, pain and suffering they can cause. Nasty people... Dumbledore, realizing that Fudge is going to 'fudge' as long as possible before doing anything, is proceeding with his preparations for the upcoming conflict. He is not without resources, though I think it's going to be VERY interesting to see just what they all are - and if they'll be sufficient. Harry, of course, is the end product of the Manhattan Project. Only he's not much of a secret, is he? Then again, what was it that Dumbledore was muttering right at the end of 'Goblet of Fire'? (I'd get the book, but my wife's asleep in the bedroom and I don't want to wake her.) Seems to me there was something he was quite pleased about... JMHO - and no one else's that I've been able to find... Jerry From millgate at austarmetro.com.au Mon Jul 2 02:00:01 2001 From: millgate at austarmetro.com.au (Glenda and Danny Millgate) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:00:01 +1000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Why was Harry sent to live with the Dursleys? References: <000001c10239$c499f4e0$0101010a@w98-1> Message-ID: <017901c1029b$14fd1000$04b50aca@aucom.com.au> No: HPFGUIDX 21772 >However, I am with you in that I totally disagree with "he would have > big head if he was brought up in the magical world." In simpler terms, if you look to the JKR's motivation rather than the character's motivation...to make the story interesting, the best thing was to have Harry totally ignorant of all magic. Making his home life unhappy ensured that his dedication to the wizarding world was total. The only way to do that was to either have him with the Dursleys or in an orphanage. Apart from that, it's good to have someone to hate in a story. JKR gives us several candidates...much more like real life. Otherwise the HP series would have some out like the Chalet School series...much too smarmy. Love Glenda [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From kabuki_darling at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 02:44:54 2001 From: kabuki_darling at hotmail.com (Sylph ~*~) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:44:54 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21773 I don't remember Dumbledore muttering something happy at the end of the book, but IIRC, when Harry said something about seeing Voldemort come back, it said there was 'a gleam of what might have been triumph' in Dumbledore's eyes, but that look passed quickly by. I wonder what that was all about. Sylph >Then again, what was it that Dumbledore was muttering right at the >end of 'Goblet of Fire'? (I'd get the book, but my wife's asleep in >the bedroom and I don't want to wake her.) Seems to me there was >something he was quite pleased about... > >JMHO - and no one else's that I've been able to find... > >Jerry > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jll3sonex at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 02:55:44 2001 From: jll3sonex at hotmail.com (jll3sonex at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 02:55:44 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9honrg+f7br@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21774 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Sylph ~*~" wrote: > I don't remember Dumbledore muttering something happy at the end of the > book, but IIRC, when Harry said something about seeing Voldemort come back, > it said there was 'a gleam of what might have been triumph' in Dumbledore's > eyes, but that look passed quickly by. I wonder what that was all about. > > Sylph Me too. That's what I was mis-remembering. Blood is powerful - could it be that it is now possible to better track Voldemort because of the infusion of HP blood? Or will V find himself starting to take on Potterish qualities? Questions abound... and answers are few at this point. Jerry From monika at darwin.inka.de Mon Jul 2 05:19:00 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:19:00 +0200 Subject: PoA Chapters 18-20 Summary Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21775 Chapter 18: Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot and Prongs Harry, Ron and Hermione have just learned that Scabbers, Ron's pet rat, is not a rat but a wizard by the name of Peter Pettigrew. They don't want to believe either Black or Lupin and say Lupin and Sirius are both mental, because Pettigrew has been dead for twelve years now. Sirius loses it and throws himself on Ron's broken leg to get at Scabbers, and Lupin tries to restrain him. He insists that they all have a right to know the truth, especially Harry, and Sirius finally gives in but urges Lupin to make it quick, because he wants to commit the murder he was imprisoned for. Hermione tries to convince Lupin that Pettigrew can't be an Animagus, because she looked them up for her homework when they had done them in class, and Pettigrew wasnt on the list. Lupin then tells them that there had been three unregistered Animagi running around Hogwarts while he was at school there. Then they suddenly hear a loud creak behind them, as though someone had come in. But there is no one there. Ron says that the Shrieking Shack is haunted, but Lupin tells them that the noises the villagers were once hearing were made by him during his transformations. He then tells them how he had been bitten as a young child and how Dumbledore had nevertheless admitted him to Hogwarts . Harry learns that Lupins three friends, Sirius Black, James Potter and Peter Pettigrew had all become Animagi to be able to keep him company during his transformations, because a werewolf is only dangerous to people, but not to animals. Lupin tells them that from this time on, his transformations were no longer the worst, but the best times in his life, although he sometimes felt guilty about betraying Dumbledore's trust. He says that he was also feeling guilty all this past year about not telling Dumbledore that Sirius was an Animagus. Sirius then learns that Snape is also teaching at Hogwarts. Harry finally finds out why Snape doesn't like Lupin and that Sirius once pulled a prank on Snape that could have cost his life, but that his father had saved him. At that moment, Snape pulls off the Invisibility Cloak and points his wand at Lupin. Chapter 19: The Servant of Lord Voldemort Snape tells them that he found the Invisibility Cloak at the base of the Whomping Willow when he was on his way to bring Lupin a goblet of Wolfsbane potion, because Lupin had forgotten to take it this evening. He ties Lupin up and then points his wand at Sirius, first threatening to kill him and then to feed him to the Dementors right away, even though Sirius says that he would come quietly up to the castle as long as they took Scabbers with them. But Snape doesn't want to hear of it, nor does he want to listen to Harry, Ron or Hermione. All three of them then decide to disarm Snape, and the blast of the spell is so violent that it knocks him out cold. Although he disarmed Snape, Harry tells Lupin and Black that he still doesn't believe them. Sirius says that it is time to offer them some proof now. Hermione then asks Sirius how he could have known it was Peter when he had been locked up in Azkaban. It turns out that Fudge had given Sirius his paper when he had come to inspect Azkaban a year before. On the front page was a photo of the Weasley family in Egypt, and Scabbers had been there, too, on Ron's shoulder. Sirius then tells them the story about how Peter had fooled the wizarding world that day in London by cutting off his own finger and transforming into a rat, taking the opportunity to vanish into the sewer with the other rats. We also learn that Crookshanks has been helping Sirius the whole year and that it was he who stole the passwords from Neville's bedside table because he hadnt managed to bring Scabbers to Sirius. Harry still doesn't believe Sirius and accuses him directly of having murdered his parents, even though Lupin assures him its not true. Sirius then explains with tears in his eyes what happened the night when James and Lily were killed and how guilty he feels about his own role in their deaths. Lupin decides that it is high time to force Pettigrew to show himself. With amazement, Harry, Ron and Hermione watch Scabbers transform and assume his true shape. Pettigrew tries to convince them all of his own innocence and of Sirius' guilt. He flinches when Sirius says Voldemort's name and tells him that he hasn't been hiding from him for twelve years but from the Death Eaters. Pettigrew denies everything and tries to convince them that he wasn't after Harry. Hermione then asks Sirius how he managed to break out of Azkaban, and we are told a truly amazing and somewhat horrible story about how he fooled the Dementors by transforming into his Animagus form to get out of the fortress. He tells Harry that he would have rather died than betray his friends, and finally Harry believes him. Pettigrew begins to plead for his life, but everyone is just disgusted by what he has done and by his lack of courage. Lupin and Black decide to kill Peter, but Harry prevents them from doing so by saying that his father wouldn't have wanted his best friends to become killers for scum like that. They finally give in and respect Harry's decision and settle for bringing Pettigrew up to the castle to hand him over to the Dementors. They also take Snape with them by putting the Mobilicorpus charm on him. Chapter 20: The Dementor's Kiss A strange group consisting of Crookshanks, Pettigrew who is chained to Ron and Lupin, Snape drifting in front of Sirius, and Harry and Hermione makes their way downstairs and then into the tunnel leading up from the Shrieking Shack to the Whomping Willow. Sirius tells Harry awkwardly that he is his godfather and offers him a home once his name will have been cleared. Harry is thrilled by the idea, and for a brief moment, Sirius is recognizable as the laughing man on the Potters' wedding photo. Then things deteriorate, a cloud shifts and they are suddenly bathed in moonlight. Since it's the full moon, Lupin begins to transform, and Harry knows immediately that he is not safe because he hasn't taken the wolfsbane potion that night. Sirius tells them to run and to leave it to him. Pettigrew manages to pull himself free and gets hold of Lupin's wand. He curses Ron and then transforms into a rat and runs away. Sirius follows him despite his bleeding wounds which are a result of a fight with Lupin. Shortly after this, Harry and Hermione hear a yelp telling them that Sirius is obviously in trouble. The yelp seems to be coming from near the lake, and when they approach the scene, they can see that Sirius has transformed back into a man and that he is surrounded by more than a hundred Dementors. They watch him plead and then lose consciousness. Harry tries to conjure up a Patronus, but there are too many Dementors around and he doesn't succeed. One of the Dementors then lowers its hood and tries to administer the kiss to Harry. But suddenly Harry feels himself falling to the ground, and the Dementors are leaving. Something has driven them away, and Harry glimpses a huge silvery animal galloping across the lake and on the other side, someone whom he thinks to be his father. Then he faints. Questions: 1. Do you think it was all right that Lupin didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius? 2. Did you have any suspicions about Scabbers not being a rat? After all, we already knew that he had been in the Weasley family for quite some time. 3. What did you think when Harry, Ron and Hermione disarmed Snape? Do you think they did the right thing or should they have waited for something actually to happen? 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that Scabbers was actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it took Harry? 5. When Sirius told them about the night when James and Lily died, he had tears in his eyes. Did this scene have some kind of effect on you and deflected a bit from the evil wizard he was supposed to be? 6. Why do you think has Sirius waited so long before he escaped from Azkaban? After all, he could have gotten away years ago, since it couldn't have taken him twelve years to get thin enough to pass through the bars? 7. When Sirius accused Pettigrew of having sold James and Lily to Voldemort, he was shaking all over. Why do you think did he have this kind of reaction? 8. We know Lupin as a very kind and calm person. Why do you think was he almost as eager to kill Pettigrew as Sirius was? 9. Now that you know what happened at the end of Book 4, do you think that Harry would have been better off if he would have let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew? 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? 11. When Sirius offers Harry to live with him, Harry immediately says yes. Now, we know that there aren't many adults Harry trusts. Why do you think does he trust Sirius to the point of going to live with him, even though he has known him only for about an hour or so? 12. Did you think that Harry really saw his father, or the ghost of his father across the lake, or did you think someone else must have cast the Patronus? 13. Do you think it was an accident that this Dementor tried to administer the Kiss to Harry, or do you think the Dementors aren't as loyal to Fudge as he would like them to be? ------ Book and movie reviews in English and German: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From r_e_d_queen at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 05:46:56 2001 From: r_e_d_queen at yahoo.com (r_e_d_queen at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 05:46:56 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <20010701210813.36699.qmail@web10906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9hp1sg+quck@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21776 > That is scarry, however, I already knew about that. Never really applied it to Harry Potter...do we know if JKR has that much knowledge in Catholic Church history? She would have almost had to do a great deal of background study on the church. > > Melanie Yes, but OTOH I can imagine a woman who found the name "Hedwig" in a book on saints thinking that a history of Catholic popes was a treasure trove. Red Queen From wim.fok at consunet.nl Mon Jul 2 05:50:58 2001 From: wim.fok at consunet.nl (Inge (MissNorbert)) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 07:50:58 +0200 Subject: introdutction/film Message-ID: <01c102ba$f84c3100$10def1c3@default> No: HPFGUIDX 21777 HIya just wanted to introduce myself and comment on some of the messages. I'm MissNorbert(allthough I'm called Inge aswell) age 28 from the netherlands, who only just got into the books thanks to a lovely collegue who said they where great and I agreed. I've only just read book 4 and it's my fave sofar. I got it from the library, but next week GoF will come out in paperback so I'm going to get that. I've also enrolled myself in Virtual Hogwarts on HPgalleries and wonder what it will be like. About the film, I do read quite a few books and sometimes see the film. It also happens the other way around, that I've become so interested in the film that I want to read the book aswell. Because of that, I think I can safely say according to some other films, the HP films are indeed very close to the book, if you want to see something different read and watch Forrest Gump for instance, though I liked them both. Sometimes things in books are hard to film, and somethings just wouldn't look as good on film, so it's necessary sometimes to change it. I know this thing also happened with the Diary of Bridget Jones(with the perhaps Lockhart playing Hugh Grant), allthough I didn't read the book some people I know did, and loved the film aswell as the book. I would also like to say I also like it that there will be english actors playing, and that it will be an english film. Not that all american films are bad(btw that guy from Starship Troopers is called Verhoeven and I can't comment on it because I havent' read the book), but I still remember Pippi Longstocking, and laugh if you wanna but I grew up with the origional lovely swedish films, and the american version was just awful, artificial comes to mind. bye! MissNorbert From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 06:17:31 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:17:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <9hp1sg+quck@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702061731.56054.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21778 I agree with you, above all because neither Cornelius nor Lucius are really common names- knowing how carefully JKR choses the names of her personalities, I'd be astonished if there was nothing behind *this* choice. It isn't that difficult to imagine that Fudge remains victim of the DEs, in fact they can't be sure he didn't believe what he heard about V's return- so it would be much easier disposing of him for mere precaution. What makes me a bit anxious for poor Cornelius is that he's "protected" by Dementors, who will easily turn against him. BTW, does anybody have ideas about why Fudge doesn't seem too affected by their presence? I mean, it's one thing seeing them from time to time at an inspection of Azkaban, but certainly another having them round him as bodyguards.... Susanna/pigwidgeon37 Red Queen wrote: "Yes, but OTOH I can imagine a woman who found the name "Hedwig" in a
book on saints thinking that a history of Catholic popes was a
treasure trove.
" >
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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From shall at sfiweb.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 2 07:31:55 2001 From: shall at sfiweb.demon.co.uk (Susan Hall) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:31:55 +0100 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <20010702061731.56054.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c102c9$11d15ca0$0101010a@w98-1> No: HPFGUIDX 21779 >What makes me a bit anxious for poor Cornelius is that he's "protected" by Dementors, who will easily turn >against him. BTW, does anybody have ideas about why Fudge doesn't seem too affected by their presence? I mean, it's one thing seeing them from time to time at >an inspection of Azkaban, but certainly another having >them round him as bodyguards.... I believe Fudge is protected from the Dementors by a complete and total want of imagination, best summed up in the phrase "Things like that don't happen to people like us". He doesn't have any particularly vulnerable spots and can't imagine what having a dementor nearby would do to people who do. Because he is so unimaginative he both cannot understand mental illness (hence his worry over the Rita Skeeter article which implies Harry is "unstable") and fears it. His own comparative lack of response to the dementors both allows him to send people to Azkaban and still sleep at nights (after all, he probably thinks it wouldn't be so bad and they should simply pull themselves together and stop being so feeble). Fudge may or may not be evil, but men like he are *very8 dangerous. Susan From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 07:58:29 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 07:58:29 -0000 Subject: PoA chapters 18-20 summary & discussion Message-ID: <9hp9j5+ak8i@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21780 Thanks to Monika for the summary!!! Questions: 1. Do you think it was all right that Lupin didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius? Well, not really all right, certainly, if you are referring to the fact that the Marauders became animagi, thus deceiving Dumbledore. OTOH, it is quite understandable he didn't when he was still a Hogwarts student. And, honestly, even if Lupin strikes me as one of the most mature and balanced characters of all, I can also understand that he didn't go and tell D. when he was assumed as a teacher. Later on, when he could have thought of the possibility of Sirius entering the school grounds as a dog, it would have been wiser to go to Dumbledore and inform him about everything. But then everything would have come out and so I think Lupin just closed his eyes at the possible danger for Harry and persuaded himself that the dementors were there anyway. 2. Did you have any suspicions about Scabbers not being a rat? After all, we already knew that he had been in the Weasley family for quite some time. Nope, it didn't even seem strange to me that he had become that old, being only a rat. It really was more crookshanks I suspected. 3. What did you think when Harry, Ron and Hermione disarmed Snape? Do you think they did the right thing or should they have waited for something actually to happen? I LOVED it!!! even if I'm quite a Snape-ist, it was so satisfying to see him being knocked out by the students he had always teated so unjustly. What I'd really like to know is whether Snape *would* have killed Sirius. He is in exactly the same position as Harry will be some minutes later: He finally has the possibility of revenge after a very long time. Only that his hatred seems to me much colder and therefore much more dangerous than harry's, so I wouldn't exclude he might have done it. certainly, it wouldn't have been the thought of the shock he might cause to HRH, murdering somebody right under their eyes, that would have prevented him from killing Sirius. 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that Scabbers was actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it took Harry? I started to change my ideas about Sirius immediately when he didn't harm Harry or Hermione who had come after him and Ron. 6. Why do you think has Sirius waited so long before he escaped from Azkaban? After all, he could have gotten away years ago, since it couldn't have taken him twelve years to get thin enough to pass through the bars? I've been wondering about that, too. He didn't know that Pettigrew was still alive and so, from his point of view, he didn't have any possibiltiy of being cleared of the "murder". OTOH, Azkaban doesn't appeal to me as a place where you stay if you have the possibility to escape. Even life as an outcast must be preferable to life at Azkaban. And he knew that Harry was out there, he would have been able to go and see him (as a dog, but anyway) from time to time. 7. When Sirius accused Pettigrew of having sold James and Lily to Voldemort, he was shaking all over. Why do you think did he have this kind of reaction? I think he was just re-living it all, and certainly the thought of his being in Azakban, while Pettigrew was, well, free, having on his conscience not only the killing of 13 people but also the deaths of James and Lily, was overwhelming. Moreover, it's hard to imagine the feeling and emotions of a person who for 13 years has not spoken to anybody, been completely lonely with his thoughts (who knows how many times poor Sirius turned his memories over and over again) and who now, for the first time, lets it all out. Considering this, I find him quite admirable. 8. We know Lupin as a very kind and calm person. Why do you think was he almost as eager to kill Pettigrew as Sirius was? Kind and calm, but very determined. And certainly not "eager" to kill Peter, I wouldn't see it like that. IMHO, for Lupin, killing Peter is not in the least a matter of emotions, but the result of logical thinking: Putting together what he has already done and what he'd be able to do in the future, the logical result is: better kill him. No use putting him into Azakaban, he could escape as easily as Sirius. No possibility of calling the Dementors to finish him off, they would probably have a go at sirius first. so better kill him and keep his body as evidence to clean at least Sirius' reputation. 9. Now that you know what happened at the end of Book 4, do you think that Harry would have been better off if he would have let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew? No way. There are very interesting possibilities with having Peter in debt with harry for saving his life. 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? Do we feel any sympathy for people who went and denounced hidden jews to the SS even if they hadn't to? I think what peter has done is not only beyond sympathy, but also beyond comprehension. Has he been tortured, menaced, I'd say OK, not everybody is a hero. But going to V. without any reason ?? 12. Did you think that Harry really saw his father, or the ghost of his father across the lake, or did you think someone else must have cast the Patronus? I think it's absolutely clear that he saw himself!! Susanna/pigwidgeon37 From mgrantwich at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 10:27:03 2001 From: mgrantwich at yahoo.com (Magda Grantwich) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 03:27:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <9honrg+f7br@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702102703.24676.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21781 > Me too. That's what I was mis-remembering. Blood is powerful - > could it be that it is now possible to better track Voldemort > because of the infusion of HP blood? > Or will V find himself starting to take on Potterish qualities? I thought it was because V, having taken some of Harry's blood for his rebirthing, is now even slightly human again and therefore mortal. In an earlier book (sorry, can't remember where), someone says that he doubts that V has enough human in him anymore to die. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From meckelburg at foni.net Mon Jul 2 11:44:07 2001 From: meckelburg at foni.net (meckelburg at foni.net) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:44:07 -0000 Subject: What happened? Message-ID: <9hpmq7+r8g5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21782 hi, Last tuesday I noticed we were counting 1491 members. I wanted to welcome No.1500, but my computer had a breakdown, so I didn't have access for some days. Now I was only away from this least for barely one week, and I just noticed, we got nearly 100 new members!!! We have 1587 totally obsessed adult HP-fans on this list. now How come so many people came at the same time? Did a complete group come over? Anything else special? Just curious!! Anyway, I'm looking forward to 100 new Ideas to new or old topics. Welcome!! Mecki! From mediaphen at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 12:45:58 2001 From: mediaphen at hotmail.com (mediaphen at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:45:58 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Thoughts on HP ep II-IV + Trailer comments (LONG) Message-ID: <9hpqe7+9cnp@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21783 Hi everybody! I hope this is on-topic, but most discussions about the movie and/or the trailer seem to be, so here?s my thoughts regarding the upcoming movies (if they actually become reality). In the year 1997, four years prior to its release, my friends and I tried to cast the upcoming LOTR movies, which was good fun, but we didn't hit the mark at all. With HP, however, most of my grown-up friends haven't read the books (I am working on that, though), which makes it pretty hard to discuss casting of the movies, so I thought I'd do it here. I know you lot are up for some inspiring discussion! These are merely my hopes and dreams and shall NOT be considered as rumoured and/or confirmed cast. No matter if Chris Columbus makes a good PS/SS or not, I think it's best to switch directors for every movie (it worked well on SW IV-VI and Alien 1-4). The books, IMHO, all have different moods and the directors should be chosen regarding that. You will also notice that I see the books becoming more and more adult, and have proposed directors with that in mind. Also note that I firmly assume that all american actors are good enough to do the correct British accent. Chamber of Secrets Director Ron Howard (Willow, Apollo 13) Gilderoy Lockhart Hugh Laurie(Blackadder series) (IMO perfect as the thick, self-obsessed pseudo DADA expert comic relief. Just watch Blackadder III and you'll be convinced) Tom Riddle Josha Jackson (Dawson's creek) Dobby Rowan Atkinson (Blackadder, Mr Bean) (no CGI required! Well, ok then, some...) Arthur Weasley Ron Howard (I know there are about a gazillion fine red-haired British actors, but I can't think of any right now. Plus I think it's funny with the director in a small part) Luscius Malfoy Julian Sands (Naked Lunch) Cornelius Fudge Terence Stamp (The Limey, SW Ep I)/Kenneth Branagh (Hamlet, Much ado about nothing) Prisoner of Azkaban Director Tim Burton (Edward Scissorhands, Sleepy Hollow) (if _he_ doesn't create the creepiness of the dementors, no one will) Sirius Black Rufus Sewell (Cold Comfort Farm) Remus Lupin Hugh Jackman (X-Men)/Ewan MacGregor (Trainspotting, SW Ep I-III) (though Mr Jackman might not want to end up as the human/scary-hairy-predator actor for the rest of his life) Wormtail Steve Buscemi (Fargo, Reservoir Dogs) Goblet of Fire Director Guy Ritchie (Lock Stock..., Snatch) Ludo Bagman Terry Jones (Monty Python)/Steven Fry (Wilde, Blackadder) (I'd prefer Fry, but my aim is to cast all remaining Pythons in this series) Barty Crouch Michael Palin (MP) (as I was saying...) Bill Weasley Eric Stoltz (Mask, Pulp Fiction) (the only cool red- haired actor 25-35 yrs I know of, and a great actor, too) Mad-Eye Moody Anthony Hopkins (Silence of the lambs) (Need I comment on this one?) Mme Maxime Judi Dench (Shakespeare in love, The world is not enough) (With a little computer help she'll get the right size) Karkaroff Stellan Skarsgard (Aberdeen, Breaking the Waves) (I just needed a Swede in the cast) Rita Skeeter Jennifer Saunders/Joanna Lumley (Absolutely fabulous) (Either of these will make a perfect sneeking reporter) Fleur Delacoeur Julie Delpy (Troi Couleurs:Blanc)/Vanessa Paradis (Elisa) (Both are beautiful french actresses, and Paradis might even look 17 if she wants) Lily Potter Miranda Richardson (Blackadder, Sleepy Hollow) That would be my rambling thoughts on the upcoming films. Does it show that I simply adore British comedy (esp Monty Python and Blackadder)? As for the trailer, I'm yet to get it at home (curse my 33.6 modem (bangs modem in oven door)), but I have watched it quite a few times at work, so here's what I think: Music: Williams music is better the more imaginative the movie is. His score to Star Wars and Indiana Jones are nothing short of brilliant, whereas his bombastic let's-use-every-instrument-in-the-known- universe-symphonies in the likes of Amistad is quite pathetic, IMO. The little we hear from the trailer places him this time in the former category. I simply love it! I find myself whistling it at work (catches several perplexed glimpses from my co-workers). I was a bit scared and surprised when I heard Williams was set as the composer, since I constantly heard the works of Danny Elfman while reading the books. Oh well, I guess he'll do the music for PoA... Great Hall: Loved the fact that the candles are actually floating in mid-air. Snape: I really don't want to say after having seen some 5 seconds, but isn't this the role Alan Rickman was born to do? Careth not about his not-too-yellowy-skin, Mr Rickman IS Snape. Period. IMNSHO. Train: Exterior, me like. Interior, me hate. What's with the "By train into the 21:st century"-look? Steam trains should have wooden benches, or at most comfy some worn-out, patched leather seats, not this bussiness-class-complete-with-a-masseuse-lean-back-and-enjoy-the- movie-deckchairs. Snitch: Loved the wings and such, but let me ask: How big are walnuts in Britain? In Sweden they are a bit smaller than shown in the trailer. (Does this qualify as nitpicking, whining nag?) Hermione: As Rickman was put to Earth to portray Snape, was Emma Watson intended to be Hermione. Just watch her in the teaser, the look she gives Ron after successfully levitating that feather. With her in the cast, this movie cannot fail. IMO. Okej, so you managed to read this far? I'm impressed! Ten points to your house! Add an additional point to each of the abovementioned actors/actresses/directors/composers you agree with. Deduct points if you disagree . Lilith Margana wrote: Oh, they can make believable ghosts. At least Swedes can when making films where the costs are MUCH lower, and since this film is SO expensive I'm sure we'll get to see special effects that makes us drowl, no matter of the film's quality otherwise. And I say: We can? Wow! I have completely missed that. Are you Swedish? If so, hej p? dig, och v?lkommen (?ven om du f?rmodligen var h?r en bra stund innan jag)! Now, I bid you A dieu! Martin (Cedar, 33 cm (13"), dragon heartstring) From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 13:13:56 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:13:56 -0000 Subject: Trailer!Draco's Hair In-Reply-To: <007a01c10256$5777da40$174e28d1@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <9hps2k+6m6l@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21784 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Saitaina" wrote: > He does have silver blonde hair I think the first place it's mentioned is PA 14, FYI, Helen. >..but do you know how hard it is to achieve > that colour un-naturally? Thomas Felton has light brown hair, which would > give him a leg up in the bleaching department but it would take close to 5 > months to do and most likely he would lose his hair in the process. Over on OT-Chatter, Neil thought his natural hair color was blond and it was dyed light brown for Anna and the King. Only his hairdresser knows . . . But my 2 knuts on this all-important topic is that even in real life, I take the description "white-blond hair" (that's the term I'm familiar with--maybe it's a US/UK thing?) with a few grains of salt; it just means something along the lines of "pretty darn light hair." Trailer!Draco's hair is almost as light as blond hair gets, if you figure it's lighter before he applies the mousse . I got all excited during Trailer Viewing #57 because I saw translucent white somethings in the background of the staircase shot and thought we were getting our first glimpse of ghosts. On Viewing #60 I realized that what I was seeing was just light coming through unseen windows. Oh well. Amy Z who wants a pair of teddy bear pajamas like NL's From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 13:38:09 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:38:09 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Harry's haircolor In-Reply-To: <002d01c1022f$d9517fc0$12421e3f@satellite> Message-ID: <9hptg1+tm6r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21785 Ender asked the reasonable question: > Where in the books is Harry's hair described as "jet-black" (as opposed to just "black")? Oh, wow, a nitpick question that no one has answered yet! My inner LOON rejoices. Three of the four first-time-we-see-him descriptions of Harry include this phrase. PS/SS 1 (baby Harry described) "Under a tuft of jet-black hair over his forehead they could see a curiously-shaped cut . . ." PS/SS 2 (10 y.o. Harry described) just says "black hair." The description of James in PS/SS 12 just says "black-haired." CoS 1 says "jet black hair that was always untidy." PoA 1 says "jet-black hair" GoF 2 says "untidy black hair." All of that said, it's true that even "jet-black" Caucasian hair isn't really as black as jet, viewed up close. I don't know if human hair comes in true black at all, regardless of race. What I get from JKR's descriptions is actually in keeping with this fact: namely, Harry's hair is unusually dark. Then, too, it might be that she is falling into cliche, that writerly tendency that makes one automatically write "jet-black" for "black," "white-faced" for "pale," etc. It is actually all right with me that Daniel Radcliffe's hair isn't as black as hair can go, partly because the more scenes I see, the more it looks like what I might at first glance call "black" (close-ups undermine this view), but also because I am a mature grownup who does not obsess about the hair color of fictional children. And because they got his eyes right . (I don't know if I've ever seen a Caucasion with truly black eyes, either, but Snape and Hagrid both have them.) Amy Z From catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk Mon Jul 2 13:51:35 2001 From: catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk (catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:51:35 -0000 Subject: PoA Chapters 18-20 Summary (long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9hpu97+6ieb@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21786 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Monika Huebner" wrote: - a very good, concise summary of chapters 18 -20, which, IMO, is the most complicated sequence in all the books. > Questions: > > 1. Do you think it was all right that Lupin didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius? No. I can understand it, but if Lupin really thought that Sirius was the evil, murdering person he was alleged to be, then he must have known that Sirius would probably be able to get into the castle both as an animagus, and by knowing all the secret passage ways. I think that Dumbledore should have been told - afterall, as far as they all knew, Harry was very much at risk. However, something makes me think that Lupin still had some remnant of loyalty towards Sirius - I don't think it was self interest alone which stopped him from going to Dumbledore. > 2. Did you have any suspicions about Scabbers not being a rat? After all, we > already knew that he had been in the Weasley family for quite some time. I remember thinking that JKR was leading up to something, but I don't think that I was clever enough to put two and two together. I did have a feeling that there was something fishy going on though - perhaps I smelt a rat? (Sorry, very bad pun - I give you all permission to groan). > 3. What did you think when Harry, Ron and Hermione disarmed Snape? Do you think > they did the right thing or should they have waited for something actually to > happen? Yes, because they were fair enough to want to hear Sirius' and Lupin's explanation of what really happened. Compare Harry, with the rage he directed at Sirius, deciding to give him a chance to tell his side of the story, compared to Snape, who was so clouded by his teenage hatred of Sirius that he wanted to feed him straight to the Dementors. It was a life or death situation - they all realised that there was an element of doubt surrounding Sirius' guilt, and were therefore unwilling to let Snape take Sirius up to the dementors when they weren't 100% sure that he was guilty. However, I do wish that things had happened differently and that Snape had actually seen Peter Pettrigrew. > 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that Scabbers was > actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it took Harry? I can't remember. I did always think that it was unlikely that Sirius was the bad guy - particularly as JKR is very good at turning things such as this on the head (Quirrel and Snape is a good example of this). I think I believed him to be innocent right away - but only because I wanted him to be. > 5. When Sirius told them about the night when James and Lily died, he had tears > in his eyes. Did this scene have some kind of effect on you and deflected a bit > from the evil wizard he was supposed to be? Well yes, but only because I was already convinced that he wasn't the evil wizard he was supposed to be. I found it very moving - poor man - he thought that he had come up with the perfect plan, which instead of keeping his friends safe, had the opposite effect. He lost his best friend that night - it is not surprising that when he relates the events to Harry, his best friend's son, he gets a little emotional. The man has a heart. > 6. Why do you think has Sirius waited so long before he escaped from Azkaban? > After all, he could have gotten away years ago, since it couldn't have taken him > twelve years to get thin enough to pass through the bars? I think that seeing the article about the Weasleys going to Egypt, and seeing that Pettigrew was at Hogwarts brought Sirius right back into the present. It is likely that he had spent all this time dwelling on the past (unhappy memories linger in Azkaban). When he realised that Pettigrew was positioned closely to Harry, this gave him the impetus to act. > 7. When Sirius accused Pettigrew of having sold James and Lily to Voldemort, he > was shaking all over. Why do you think did he have this kind of reaction? I couldn't find this reference to his shaking, but if he were, I wouldn't be surprised - literally shaking with anger. Pent up anger at Pettigrew for murdering his best friend, leaving his godson an orphan, for destroying his own life - 12 years wasted in Azkaban, currently on the run, the injustice of it! I am surprised he kept control as much as he did. > 8. We know Lupin as a very kind and calm person. Why do you think was he almost > as eager to kill Pettigrew as Sirius was? I have never understood this. Why on earth weren't they clever enough to realise that a confession from Pettigrew was necessary to secure Sirius Black's freedom and have him declared innocent. I think that this was a device to let Harry step in and put a stop to it. Another thing - Lupin is kind and calm - but the latter because he is used to keeping his emotions to himself. I see him as very withdrawn - a result of the way he has been treated most of his life. Now, one of the few people who totally accepted the fact that he was a werewolf and didn't shun him, indeed loved him, was James Potter, so I would not be surprised if Lupin was also very angry with Pettigrew, but just didn't show it to the same extent as Sirius. > 9. Now that you know what happened at the end of Book 4, do you think that Harry > would have been better off if he would have let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew? Absolutely not. The story isn't over yet! There are three books left in which Pettigrew has a chance to redeem himself or at least help Harry in some way. Besides which, I think it is important that Harry didn't give into his anger here. He always strikes me as having excellent morals, and I don't think I want to see him tainted with someone's death just yet. > 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? None at all. Cowardice is no excuse. Betraying one's friends like that, I personally feel, is inexcusable, and I think he has his just desserts, as Voldemort treats him as the vermin he is. (Another kind of pun, sorry). > 11. When Sirius offers Harry to live with him, Harry immediately says yes. Now, > we know that there aren't many adults Harry trusts. Why do you think does he > trust Sirius to the point of going to live with him, even though he has known > him only for about an hour or so? Push and pull factors. He obviously would prefer almost anything to living with the Dursleys. More importantly, even in a short space of time, he has realised exactly what Sirius has been through, and that his escape from Azkaban wasn't solely to avenge himself on Pettigrew, but to protect Harry. He also knows that Sirius was his godfather and that James' faith in him was not misguided, therefore he is trusting his father's judgement. I have to add that I was in tears when I read this scene. Sirius' trepidation in asking Harry, Harry's excitement and obvious pleasure in the invitation, Sirius' incredulity and happiness at being wanted, and the way the smile transforms his face. I was absolutely heartbroken, and even more so when it didn't happen. When I reread it now, it still has the same effect, and I am always worried that the Dementors are going to get Sirius, even though I know that they won't. > 12. Did you think that Harry really saw his father, or the ghost of his father > across the lake, or did you think someone else must have cast the Patronus? I can't remember. I do remember thinking that Hermione was obviously either time travelling or able to split herself in three, and felt sure that this was going to play an important part at some stage. I don't know whether this lead me to believe that it could have been another Harry casting the Patronus. I probably wildly speculated that as Sirius, Lupin and Pettigrew were there, that perhaps James Potter wasn't dead afterall. > 13. Do you think it was an accident that this Dementor tried to administer the > Kiss to Harry, or do you think the Dementors aren't as loyal to Fudge as he > would like them to be? I have absolutely no idea on this one. I think that the Dementors are selfserving. They had their official quarry in sight (Sirius) - perhaps the fact that others were with him were enough to stir them into attempting a kiss. Perhaps they all wanted to administer the kiss to Sirius, argued about it, and decided to go for all of them instead. BTW: When I think of the dementors, I don't see them as individuals, but as one mass entity. I get the feeling that if one of them feels/experiences something, they will all do so, perhaps a little like the Midwich (sp) Cuckoos. Does anyone else think this as well? Catherine From litalex at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 14:04:10 2001 From: litalex at yahoo.com (Alexandra Y. Kwan) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:04:10 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MOVIE: Harry's haircolor References: <9hptg1+tm6r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <047601c102ff$e1ce6340$1706bacb@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 21787 Hello, From: "Amy Z" > All of that said, it's true that even "jet-black" Caucasian hair isn't > really as black as jet, viewed up close. I don't know if human hair > comes in true black at all, regardless of race. > [snip] > (I don't know if I've ever seen a Caucasion with truly black eyes, > either, but Snape and Hagrid both have them.) I think you got eye color and hair color mixed up . Jet black hair, even for Caucasians, is certainly possible (Italians, for example), but I'm quite sure that no human beings have truly black eyes. Extremely deep brown I've seen, but no black eyes. The effect would be rather...scary. little Alex _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 14:33:10 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 14:33:10 -0000 Subject: Black eyes? In-Reply-To: <047601c102ff$e1ce6340$1706bacb@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <9hq0n6+boeq@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21788 little Alex wrote: > Jet black hair, even > for Caucasians, is certainly possible (Italians, for example), but I'm quite > sure that no human beings have truly black eyes. Extremely deep brown I've > seen, but no black eyes. Me either. What I meant to say was that that may be another case of hyberbole on Jo's part, since she definitely says straight out that Snape and Hagrid have black eyes. PS/SS 4: "you could make out his eyes, glinting like black beetles under all the hair." PS/SS 8: "[Snape's] eyes were black like Hagrid's, but had none of Hagrid's warmth." PA 14: "He didn't care that Snape's face had gone rigid, the black eyes flashing dangerously." Amy Z ----------------------------------------------- Ron peered into Harry's teacup, his forehead wrinkled with effort. "There's a blob a bit like a bowler hat," he said. "Maybe you're going to work for the Ministry of Magic...." -HP and the Prisoner of Azkaban ----------------------------------------------- From margdean at erols.com Mon Jul 2 13:57:15 2001 From: margdean at erols.com (Margaret Dean) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 09:57:15 -0400 Subject: Pettigrew vs. Fudge References: <9hp9j5+ak8i@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <3B407DBB.65DDFFE0@erols.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21789 pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it wrote: > 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? > > Do we feel any sympathy for people who went and denounced hidden jews > to the SS even if they hadn't to? I think what peter has done is not > only beyond sympathy, but also beyond comprehension. Has he been > tortured, menaced, I'd say OK, not everybody is a hero. But going to > V. without any reason ?? After reading Susan Hall's very insightful post about Fudge (speculating that the reason Fudge can have Dementors around him all the time is his utter lack of imagination -- which is also what makes him dangerous otherwise), it occurs to me that Peter Pettigrew's curse may be the opposite: an entirely too vivid imagination coupled with the aforementioned lack of courage. People like this don't need to be tortured or menaced. They do it to themselves. "Cowards die many times before their death..." (Apart from that, we don't =know= that Peter went to Voldemort completely off his own bat. We don't know what other associates P. may have had, or what pressures might have been brought to bear on him.) --Margaret Dean From litalex at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 14:46:24 2001 From: litalex at yahoo.com (Alexandra Y. Kwan) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 22:46:24 +0800 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Chinese translations - Trailer download References: <993744639.953.92827.l10@yahoogroups.com> <00a501c101c8$311f33e0$a6a55dcb@cagsdic> Message-ID: <04b801c10305$c6dee220$1706bacb@oemcomputer> No: HPFGUIDX 21790 Hello, From: "Cai Hui" > Actually the mainland Chinese versions *were* translated from the Brit versions. > as far as I can tell. Dean Thomas is not a black boy in the Chinese translation. > > They just decided to use the US cover design. ...wie interessant. > I don't know about the Taiwan translations, though. Have you seen them in > Hong Kong? I heard the PoA had just come out. Yes, Hong Kong has both mainland and Taiwan versions. Well, at least my dad's bookstores have both. Then again, those bookstores are based in mainland China (Commercial Press; so, technically, they aren't my dad's). > if there's anyone who is still having trouble finding the quicktime versions... > the exact locations are: Thank you! > still catching up... I was only away for three days! So was I. I actually went back to mainland China for the last three days (Guan Dong province, in Shun De, where my hometown is (well, my great grandfather's hometown)). little Alex _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 14:55:32 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 14:55:32 -0000 Subject: PoA Chapters 18-20 - Fudge/WWII parallels Message-ID: <9hq214+4kq7@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21791 Great summary and questions, Monika! >12. Did you think that Harry really saw his father, or the ghost of >his father across the lake, or did you think someone else must have cast the >Patronus? In the English-language editions, he doesn't say that it looked like his father until near the end of the next chapter ("Hermione's Secret"), so I only had two pages in which to wonder (IIRC I was just dazed and confused, and way too eager to get on with the story to think it through--I certainly wasn't going to pause the tape to consider theories). I do recall hoping that he didn't turn out not to be dead after all--sorry, Harry. Does it mention James in "The Dementor's Kiss" in the German version? > 1. Do you think it was all right that Lupin didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius? No. One of the reasons I love the scenes between him and Harry is that you just know that he's feeling more and more terrible about his failure to do what he can to alleviate the danger to Harry. Like Catherine, I think some unarticulated loyalty to Sirius and/or likewise unarticulated conviction that he can't really have done what he seems to have done may be part of Lupin's motivation. None of it excuses his silence, but the whole thing makes him a very interesting character. He'd be gag-inducingly saintly otherwise. Jerry wrote: >Fudge, IMO, is Chamberlain. Dumbledore is Churchill. >The Death Eaters are the SS and SA - they enjoy the dirty work, pain >and suffering they can cause. Nasty people... This all works very well, IMO (right up to Harry's being the A-bomb--ulp! Does that mean a Cold War and years of brinkmanship will follow the post-V peace?). But I doubt JKR is writing a simple allegory about WWII or any other human conflict, just as I doubt that S.P.E.W. will undergo the same stages, successes and failures of any particular real-life liberation movement. It would be boring; too much would be known in advance, and it would become like reading a history text instead of the thrilling novels we all love. So I won't make any predictions, other than to say that Fudge needs to undergo a serious change of attitude if he is *not* to cause catastrophe. Amy Z ------------------------------------------------------ And this our life . . . Finds tongues in trees, books in the running brooks, Sermons in stones, and good in everything. --Shakespeare, As You Like It ------------------------------------------------------ From bohners at pobox.com Mon Jul 2 14:58:37 2001 From: bohners at pobox.com (Horst or Rebecca J. Bohner) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:58:37 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Black eyes? References: <9hq0n6+boeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <01ea01c10307$7ea3c140$6a8f23cf@rebeccab> No: HPFGUIDX 21792 Amy Z quoted: > PA 14: "He didn't care that Snape's face had gone rigid, the black > eyes flashing dangerously." *swoons and falls over with a resounding THUNK* Ahem. What was I going to say again? Gimme a second to collect my scattered wits. Oh, okay. Yeah. Black hair, black eyes. I agree with those who've pointed out that neither really exists among Caucasians; even hair that looks black from a distance turns out to be dark brown on closer inspection, and the only truly dead-black hair I've seen has been very obviously artificial. And I have never seen, met, or heard of a person with absolutely black eyes; again, it's just a poetic term for dark brown. However, we are talking about wizards here, not ordinary Muggles of the sort we're all used to (and used to being, unfortunately). Also, we're still not entirely sure of Snape's true nature (much as I hate to admit it, there *is* some room for speculation that he might not be entirely human) and Hagrid is not only a wizard but half-giant as well, so black eyes may be quite literally true in both cases. I agree with those who've said it would be disconcerting to look at someone who appeared to have no pupils, but perhaps the iris is not *quite* so dark a black as the pupil and therefore it wouldn't look quite so weird as we think. Now I'm going to be very curious to see Hagrid's eyes in the movie (it may be taken for granted that I was already planning to pay very close attention to Snape). -- Rebecca J. Bohner rebeccaj at pobox.com http://home.golden.net/~rebeccaj From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 15:04:35 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:04:35 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Pettigrew vs. Fudge In-Reply-To: <3B407DBB.65DDFFE0@erols.com> Message-ID: <20010702150435.96320.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21793 --- Margaret Dean ha scritto: I can't possibly think of *any* form of vivid imagination that might push you to sell your friends to the enemy. IMHO, Sirius' explanation for Peter's behaviour is psychologically much more consistent and satisfying: Peter always needs to be under the protection of "the biggest bully in the playground". It's not even ambition that drives him to tell V. where the Potters are hiding, he's an opportunist and a coward who just wants to be the pet of the most powerful person around. Had he thought that Dumbledore would win, he would doubtlessly have kept the secret. sorry to be so insistant about this, but somehow Pettigrew turns out to be the person I disklike most. ( But don't you think he would have told Sirius&Remus everything that might have been useful to defend himself? If V. had, e.g., threatened to kill Peter's mother (who is the only relative we know about), or put the Cruciatus curse on him, things would be different. I'm referring to the following bit of chapter 19: "Sirius, Sirius, what could I have done? The Dark Lord...you have no idea...he has weapons you can't imagine...I was scared, Sirius, I was never brave as you and Remus and James. I never meant it to happen...He Who Must Not Be Named forced me..." "Don't lie!" bellowed Black. "You'd been passing information to him for a year before Lily and James died! You were his spy!" "He- he was taking over everywhere!" gasped Pettigrew. "Wh-what was the to be gained by resisting him?" I think that's rather clear, don't you? Susanna/pigwidgeon37
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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From aiz24 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 15:07:42 2001 From: aiz24 at hotmail.com (Amy Z) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 15:07:42 -0000 Subject: Black eyes? In-Reply-To: <01ea01c10307$7ea3c140$6a8f23cf@rebeccab> Message-ID: <9hq2nu+s3at@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21794 > Amy Z quoted: > > > PA 14: "He didn't care that Snape's face had gone rigid, the black > > eyes flashing dangerously." Rebecca wrote: > *swoons and falls over with a resounding THUNK* LOL! Snapefans, you dear, dear people are uniformly ill. Someone should propose a DSM-IV diagnosis for those who find a man swooningly attractive when he's raging at a 13-year-old boy he's just mortally insulted. It could be nicknamed Severus Syndrome. Amy Z ---------------------------------------- We need not think alike to love alike. --Ferenc David ---------------------------------------- From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 15:28:10 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:28:10 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: PoA Chapters 18-20 Summary (long) In-Reply-To: <9hpu97+6ieb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702152810.88503.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21795 --- catherine at cator-manor.demon.co.uk ha scritto: <6. Why do you think has Sirius waited so long before <> After all, he could have gotten away years ago, <> twelve years to get thin enough to pass through
IMO, it would have been more understandable, without having to change anything at the plot, if Sirius had evaded after having lost enough weight to get through the bars as a dog, and then gone to hide abroad (Egypt??). JKR could have made it at least as plausible that he got hold of the newspaper somewhere else, saw the photo etc.etc. Of course, his hate against Pettigrew would lack the additional motivation of 12 lost years in Azkaban, but I'd say he had enough reasons to hate Peter for all the things he had done, even without the 12 years. > 8. We know Lupin as a very kind and calm person. Why do you think
was he almost
> as eager to kill Pettigrew as Sirius was?

I have never understood this. Why on earth weren't they clever
enough to realise that a confession from Pettigrew was necessary to
secure Sirius Black's freedom and have him declared innocent. I
think that this was a device to let Harry step in and put a stop to
Pettigrew's body would have been more than enough to prove Sirius' innocence. 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew?

None at all. Cowardice is no excuse. Betraying one's friends like
that, I personally feel, is inexcusable, and I think he has his just
desserts, as Voldemort treats him as the vermin he is. (Another kind
of pun, sorry). Yes, that's the punishment he deserves: Being treated like vermin also by Voldemort who obviously sees through him and will use him as long as he's useful. 13. Do you think it was an accident that this Dementor tried to
administer the
> Kiss to Harry, or do you think the Dementors aren't as loyal to
Fudge as he
> would like them to be?

I have absolutely no idea on this one. I think that the Dementors
are selfserving. They had their official quarry in sight (Sirius) -
perhaps the fact that others were with him were enough to stir them
into attempting a kiss. Perhaps they all wanted to administer the
kiss to Sirius, argued about it, and decided to go for all of them
instead.
As Lupin says, when talking to Harry about the Dementors: "....all that excitement...emotions running high...it was their idea of a feast" In that moment, Harry was the most "appetizing" of the three, with Sirius and Hermione lying unconscious on the ground.
BTW: When I think of the dementors, I don't see them as individuals,
but as one mass entity. I get the feeling that if one of them
feels/experiences something, they will all do so, perhaps a little
like the Midwich (sp) Cuckoos. Does anyone else think this as well?
I don't know the Midwich Cuckoos, they reminded me of the soldiers of Xayde in the Never Ending Story: It came out that they were nothing but empty ahells, driven by Xayde's will. Susanna/pigwidgeon37
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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From mariannayus at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 15:37:00 2001 From: mariannayus at yahoo.com (Marianna Lvovsky) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: PoA Chapters 18-20 Summary (long) In-Reply-To: <9hpu97+6ieb@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702153700.82620.qmail@web14408.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21796 1. Do you think it was all right that Lupin didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius? Well, not all right, but understandable. Lupin isn't trusted by many people. Dumbledore is one of the very few. And this trust is so important to Lupin that he cannot bear admit that he has broken it: telling D about the animagi business would be admitting that he broke D's trust and might result in withdrawlal of that trust. I don't think Lupin wants to face that. Add to this most people's ability to convince themselves of what they want: i.e. Sirius is getting to Hogwarts by using Dark Magic, and the fact that I think Lupin is rather reluctant to openly betray Sirius, even though he believes him to be a V supporter. That would make Black's capture certain, and I doubt Lupin wants to be directly responsible for the Kiss administered to Sirius if he is caught. 2. Did you have any suspicions about Scabbers not being a rat? After all, we already knew that he had been in the Weasley family for quite some time. None at all. I am a sucker for Red Herrings. 3. What did you think when Harry, Ron and Hermione disarmed Snape? Do you think they did the right thing or should they have waited for something actually to happen? YESSSSSSSS! I love that man dearly, but he really needed a good knock on the head. I think Snape and Harry in this scene presnet two ways to dealing with the situation. Harry's the mature one: he loathes Sirius, because he thinks Black killed his parents, but he wants to listen and evaluate for himself. Truth is too important. Snape however is blinded by hatred, so much that he is channeling in only information that will feed it. Feeding someone to the Dementors for a prank done over 12 years ago, without listening to what that person has to say first, is rather immature to say the least. 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that Scabbers was actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it took Harry? Well, I had first glimmerings of doubt during the "revelation" conversation with the Profs. at the bar. I don't know, something is that description of Sirius didn't sit right as someone who'd go off and be V's supporter. But I thought little of it, and moved on. I realized there was something majorly wrong with the picture, when Sirius tried to protect Crookshanks, when Harry was going to "kill" him. A man who'd be wiling to protect a cat from sharing his fate, would hardly be the man to betray his best friends and blast 13 innocent people away. 5. When Sirius told them about the night when James and Lily died, he had tears in his eyes. Did this scene have some kind of effect on you and deflected a bit from the evil wizard he was supposed to be? Yup....added to my view that he was not an evil wizard and that there must be an explanation. 6. Why do you think has Sirius waited so long before he escaped from Azkaban?After all, he could have gotten away years ago,since it couldn't have taken him twelve years to get thin enough to pass through the bars? I don't think he was strong enough before. After all, the worst thing about Azkaban is not the bars. Dementors suck up all the happy thoughts and leave you reliving your worst experiences. most people go mad. Sirius managed not to, but I doubt he had the strength for a transformation or even will for it. He knew who he was but that was about it: having to relieve your worst memories (and his are pretty bad) for 12 years, I doubt he was in mental or physical condition needed to even formulate a plan, let alone escape. However, when he learned sbout PP at Hogwarts, the desire to catch him and protect Harry gave him strength ("lit a fire"). Most importantly, it gave him a sense of purpose, which I suppose is one of the first things Dementors would suck out of prisoners. Since his is not a happy purpose, but an obsession, he kept it. I think overall, it gave him (a) another thought that Dementors couldn't take away and (b)restored the sense of purpose that gave him will power back. 7. When Sirius accused Pettigrew of having sold James and Lily to Voldemort, he was shaking all over. Why do you think did he have this kind of reaction? I don't think he is in control of his emotions, especially negative ones. 12 years in Azkaban would probably leave you very emotionally raw. Also, I doubt he was able to form many new memories in Azkaban, and he probably relived that night over and over in his head (Dementors make you relieve your worst memories and it was certanly one of his). So to him it is much more immediate than it would be to anybody else. Emotionally and mentally to him, this must feel as a few days ago, as opposed to 12 years (Reminds me of the film "Memento" when the character wonders how can he heal and stop grieving when he cannot form new memories so to him the death of his wife is always 20 minutes ago). 8. We know Lupin as a very kind and calm person.Why do you think was he almost as eager to kill Pettigrew as Sirius was? It's calm, but it's frightening calm. I would almost prefer to deal with Sirius' rage. It seems more natural and human somehow. Lupin is not thinking of revenge but justice: PP killed James and Lily (and framed Sirius), so he has to die. PP's body would have been evidence enough I suppose, but in any case, Sirius and Lupin were not thinking just rationally: they were executing a traitor. Lupin's "good-bye, Peter" always struck me as much more final and inexorable and frightening than all of Sirius' rage. Btw, why don't they just use Veritaserum on all those accused of being Death Eaters? Save time and money and be pretty reliable. 9. Now that you know what happened at the end of Book 4, do you think that Harry would have been better off if he would have let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew? Well, not plotwise :) But a vindictive part of me thinks "yes." 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? Nope. The analogy of those betraying Jews to SS was very apt. 11. When Sirius offers Harry to live with him, Harry immediately says yes. Now, we know that there aren't many adults Harry trusts. Why do you think does he trust Sirius to the point of going to live with him, even though he has known him only for about an hour or so? Well, anything is better than the Dursleys, and plus, this man was his parents' best friend and just tried to save him from Voldemort supporter. I think he's proven his trsutworthiness. And (a first for Harry) he seems to genuinely want Harry to live with him, and also view it as a favor that is too great to ask. Harry has to realize that he will be loved and well cared for. (And could probably listen to all the stories about his parents that he wants). 12. Did you think that Harry really saw his father, or the ghost of his father across the lake, or did you think someone else must have cast the Patronus? At the time I was reading it, I had no idea and was lost in conjecture. 13. Do you think it was an accident that this Dementor tried to administer the Kiss to Harry, or do you think the Dementors aren't as loyal to Fudge as he would like them to be? Dementors aren't loyal to anyone except themselves. Their thirst for souls has been aroused and they decided to have a bigger meal than just Sirius. Marsha __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 15:57:00 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:57:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] MOVIE: Thoughts on HP ep II-IV + Trailer comments (LONG) In-Reply-To: <9hpqe7+9cnp@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702155700.76310.qmail@web14708.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21797 First of all, this casting discussion will probably be banned as OT, but I'll take a chance before the admins become aware, as I simply *love* casting discussions. --- mediaphen at hotmail.com ha scritto: Chamber of Secrets Director Ron Howard (Willow, Apollo 13)
Gilderoy Lockhart Hugh Laurie(Blackadder series) (IMO perfect as the
thick, self-obsessed pseudo DADA expert comic relief. Just watch
Blackadder III and you'll be convinced) Laurie is one of my absolutely favourite comic actors, but Lockhart HAS to be blonde and blue-eyed. If you go for Python casting, it's doubtlessly Eric Idle, otherwise I'd take Hugh Grant.
Tom Riddle Josha Jackson (Dawson's creek)
Dobby Rowan Atkinson (Blackadder, Mr Bean) (no CGI required! Well, ok then, some...) I think they will do some animation and it will turn out like Yoda of star wars II (shudder!!!) Arthur Weasley Ron Howard (I know there are about a gazillion
fine red-haired British actors, but I can't think of any right now.
Plus I think it's funny with the director in a small part)
Luscius Malfoy Julian Sands (Naked Lunch) GREAT idea!!!!
Cornelius Fudge Terence Stamp (The Limey, SW Ep I)/Kenneth Branagh
(Hamlet, Much ado about nothing) Well, I'd prefer Ian Holm

Prisoner of Azkaban Director Tim Burton (Edward Scissorhands, Sleepy Hollow) (if _he_ doesn't create the creepiness of the dementors, no one will)
Sirius Black Rufus Sewell (Cold Comfort Farm) What about Daniel Day-Lewis??? Remus Lupin Hugh Jackman (X-Men)/Ewan MacGregor (Trainspotting,
SW Ep I-III) (though Mr Jackman might not want to end up as the
human/scary-hairy-predator actor for the rest of his life)
I'd prefer James Spader Wormtail Steve Buscemi (Fargo, Reservoir Dogs)
Tiny? Balding? No way! Goblet of Fire Director Guy Ritchie (Lock Stock..., Snatch For me: Luc Besson Ludo Bagman Terry Jones (Monty Python)/Steven Fry (Wilde,
Blackadder) (I'd prefer Fry, So would I!!!!! but my aim is to cast all remaining
Pythons in this series)
Barty Crouch Michael Palin (MP) (as I was saying...) Hermione would say *Honestly!*. No, you can't possibly! I could imagine Tim Roth.
Bill Weasley Eric Stoltz (Mask, Pulp Fiction) (the only cool red-
haired actor 25-35 yrs I know of, and a great actor, too)
Mad-Eye Moody Anthony Hopkins (Silence of the lambs) (Need I
comment on this one?) No, but what about Gabriel Byrne?
Mme Maxime Judi Dench (Shakespeare in love, The world is not
enough) (With a little computer help she'll get the right size)
Yeah, but not olive-skinned and south-french! And I'm not sure about Maxime's age, I think Judy dench (whom I'd loved to see as madam Pomfrey!) wouldn't do. hagrid falls for her and he's only 53!! Fanny Ardant would be a nice choice, IMHO. Karkaroff Stellan Skarsgard (Aberdeen, Breaking the Waves) (I
just needed a Swede in the cast)
Rita Skeeter Jennifer Saunders/Joanna Lumley (Absolutely fabulous)
(Either of these will make a perfect sneeking reporter)
Fleur Delacoeur Julie Delpy (Troi Couleurs:Blanc)/Vanessa Paradis
(Elisa) (Both are beautiful french actresses, and Paradis might even
look 17 if she wants)
Lily Potter Miranda Richardson (Blackadder, Sleepy Hollow)

That would be my rambling thoughts on the upcoming films. Does it
show that I simply adore British comedy (esp Monty Python and
Blackadder)?

I was a bit
scared and surprised when I heard Williams was set as the composer,
since I constantly heard the works of Danny Elfman while reading the
books. Oh well, I guess he'll do the music for PoA... In fact, I thought it was Elfman when hearing it the first time. It's so much like Batman II LOL, Susanna/pigwidgeon37 _______ADMIN________ADMIN_______ADMIN__________

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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From ender_w at msn.com Mon Jul 2 16:08:08 2001 From: ender_w at msn.com (ender_w) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:08:08 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MOVIE: Harry's haircolor References: <9hptg1+tm6r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <000801c10311$3073b020$9a690f3f@satellite> No: HPFGUIDX 21798 I am not worthy! I am not worthy! Very impressive, Amy. You are even LOONier than I am. I stand corrected. Harry's hair is, indeed, according to Rowling, jet black. However, I still hold firmly to my belief that true-black hair is very rare and I, who once dyed my hair true jet black, am glad that they did not dye Dan's hair totally black (though making it a bit darker wouldn't have hurt), because it looks incredibly unnatural! There have been complaints that although Draco's hair is the requisite pale blond, that it looks unnaturally dyed (yes, i know we're still debating whether or not it was actually dyed). Well, i hypothesize that if Dan's hair had been dyed black, it would definitely look unnatural. And the eye thing...I am also one of those people whose eyes are often described as black. In fact, my brother even told me that they're so black one can't see any difference between pupil and iris...yet, in sunlight, my eyes are light brown, even orange. It's all in one's perception. ender ----- Original Message ----- From: Amy Z To: HPforGrownups at yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 9:38 AM Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MOVIE: Harry's haircolor Ender asked the reasonable question: > Where in the books is Harry's hair described as "jet-black" (as opposed to just "black")? Oh, wow, a nitpick question that no one has answered yet! My inner LOON rejoices. Three of the four first-time-we-see-him descriptions of Harry include this phrase. PS/SS 1 (baby Harry described) "Under a tuft of jet-black hair over his forehead they could see a curiously-shaped cut . . ." PS/SS 2 (10 y.o. Harry described) just says "black hair." The description of James in PS/SS 12 just says "black-haired." CoS 1 says "jet black hair that was always untidy." PoA 1 says "jet-black hair" GoF 2 says "untidy black hair." All of that said, it's true that even "jet-black" Caucasian hair isn't really as black as jet, viewed up close. I don't know if human hair comes in true black at all, regardless of race. What I get from JKR's descriptions is actually in keeping with this fact: namely, Harry's hair is unusually dark. Then, too, it might be that she is falling into cliche, that writerly tendency that makes one automatically write "jet-black" for "black," "white-faced" for "pale," etc. It is actually all right with me that Daniel Radcliffe's hair isn't as black as hair can go, partly because the more scenes I see, the more it looks like what I might at first glance call "black" (close-ups undermine this view), but also because I am a mature grownup who does not obsess about the hair color of fictional children. And because they got his eyes right . (I don't know if I've ever seen a Caucasion with truly black eyes, either, but Snape and Hagrid both have them.) Amy Z _______ADMIN________ADMIN_______ADMIN__________ All OT (Off-Topic) messages must be posted to the HPFGU-OTChatter YahooGroup, to make it easier for everyone to sort through the messages they want to read and those they don't. Therefore...if you want to be able to post and read OT messages, point your cyberbroomstick at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HPFGU-OTChatter to join now! For more details, contact the Moderator Team at hpforgrownups-owner at yahoogroups.com. (To unsubscribe, send a blank email to hpforgrownups-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com) Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] From bohners at pobox.com Mon Jul 2 16:00:09 2001 From: bohners at pobox.com (Horst or Rebecca J. Bohner) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:00:09 -0400 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Black eyes? References: <9hq2nu+s3at@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <021e01c10310$17caa0c0$6a8f23cf@rebeccab> No: HPFGUIDX 21799 > Snapefans, you dear, dear people are uniformly ill. Someone should > propose a DSM-IV diagnosis for those who find a man swooningly > attractive when he's raging at a 13-year-old boy he's just mortally > insulted. It could be nicknamed Severus Syndrome. Context, schmontext. Dangerously flashing black eyes are all I need to know. :) -- Rebecca J. Bohner rebeccaj at pobox.com http://home.golden.net/~rebeccaj From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 16:04:19 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:04:19 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Black eyes? In-Reply-To: <9hq2nu+s3at@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702160419.16671.qmail@web14706.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21800 At the age of 13, I shocked my mother by saying I would marry a mafioso: That were clearly the first symptoms of a bad Severus-Syndrome coming on. But imagine him with washed hair, teeth dis-yellowed and not having to teach?! And he's SO brilliant!! Susanna (sorry for all the non-snapists who haven't yet discovered his charm but won't fail to do so) Amy wrote: Rebecca wrote:

> *swoons and falls over with a resounding THUNK*

LOL!

Snapefans, you dear, dear people are uniformly ill. Someone should
propose a DSM-IV diagnosis for those who find a man swooningly
attractive when he's raging at a 13-year-old boy he's just mortally
insulted. It could be nicknamed Severus Syndrome.


Amy Z

----------------------------------------
We need not think alike to love alike.
--Ferenc David
----------------------------------------





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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From mariannayus at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 16:04:51 2001 From: mariannayus at yahoo.com (Marianna Lvovsky) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 09:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Black eyes? In-Reply-To: <9hq0n6+boeq@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702160451.4950.qmail@web14403.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21801 > > PS/SS 4: "you could make out his eyes, glinting > like black beetles > under all the hair." > > PS/SS 8: "[Snape's] eyes were black like Hagrid's, > but had none of > Hagrid's warmth." > > PA 14: "He didn't care that Snape's face had gone > rigid, the black > eyes flashing dangerously." > > Amy Z > Very brown eyes look like black. I think it also depends on the language, and use of it. In Russian, for example, you can refer to someone having black eyes, without people automaticaly thinking of vampires. It just means very very dark brown eyes. As to Hagrid: in addition to above-mentioned he is half-giant. Maybe he got the eyes from Giantess-Mum? Marsha, unwilling to admit JKR used cliches :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From bbennett at joymail.com Mon Jul 2 16:29:04 2001 From: bbennett at joymail.com (bbennett at joymail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:29:04 -0000 Subject: MOVIE: Soundtrack info, Rickman as Snape In-Reply-To: <3B1A42CB.F4424FB5@texas.net> Message-ID: <9hq7gg+4tjk@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21802 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Amanda Lewanski wrote: > > > "I developed a theme for Hedwig," Williams says. > > "Everyone seemed to like it, so I will probably use > > that music as one thread in the tapestry.">> Everyone "seems to like" Williams music in general . What a modest statement from a supremely talented man. And on Rickman (although I'm probably not adding anything new here)... Although I've always been curious about Snape, I never found him intriguing until I saw Rickman in the latest trailer. Yes, the "Mr. Potter, our new celebrity" sent shivers down my back as well. Rickman is older than the character (Rickman was born in '46, I believe), but nothing about him makes me think "too old" (and that voice is just perfect, IMO). I imagine Snape as not having aged particularly well, considering all he's been through, and a younger actor might very well have looked *too* young (assuming they could have even found someone else to pull it off - as someone already mentioned, Snape must be difficult to play as appropriately meanacing without crossing the line into cartoon evil). To be honest, I'm shocked at how unbelievably delighted I am with both the casting and the trailers. I think this has the potential to be one of the all- time great films. B From beyondthelamppost at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 17:01:15 2001 From: beyondthelamppost at yahoo.com (Jamie) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:01:15 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <20010702102703.24676.qmail@web11105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9hq9cr+hlev@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21803 > I thought it was because V, having taken some of Harry's blood for > his rebirthing, is now even slightly human again and therefore > mortal. In an earlier book (sorry, can't remember where), someone > says that he doubts that V has enough human in him anymore to die. ____________ My impression is that by taking on mortal form again, Voldemort gave up what immortality he had gained. Thus, he is able to be destroyed as well as defeated. (He mentions something about how he would satisfy himself with his old body for now). - Jamie From A.E.B.Bevan at open.ac.uk Mon Jul 2 17:08:31 2001 From: A.E.B.Bevan at open.ac.uk (A.E.B.Bevan at open.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:08:31 -0000 Subject: Black eyes? In-Reply-To: <01ea01c10307$7ea3c140$6a8f23cf@rebeccab> Message-ID: <9hq9qf+dmtc@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21804 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Rebecca Bohner wrote:" >Black hair, black eyes. I agree with > those who've pointed out that neither really exists among >Caucasians; Er Why is everyone assuming Harry is strictly caucasian? Given modern British society he could very well have part-Asian parentage. Maybe he is related to the Patil sisters through James' mother? (idle speculation mode off). Even sticking to 'caucasians the 'dark Irish' from the west coast of Ireland have very very black hair (and pale skin). My colleague in the office is one ... she has just gone on a fortnights leave though so I can't check her eye colour. Either ancestry would perhaps make the Dursleys choke quite apart from the wizard aspects. Most likely explanation for the hair colour references - good dramatic and plot colour loops for JKR. Harry stands out even in Muggle terms. There are many Muggle-world-level inconsistencies in the story details anyway, in all the books ... Edis From indigo at indigosky.net Mon Jul 2 17:16:05 2001 From: indigo at indigosky.net (Indigo) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:16:05 -0000 Subject: PoA Chapters 18-20 Summary Message-ID: <9hqa8l+mq9r@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21805 1. Do you think it was all right that Lupin didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius? The loyalty is laudable. And had it been anyone other than Dumbledore, I'd have said it was probably prudent given that Sirius is actually innocent -- and Dumbledore's proven a kind heart and a forgiving nature. Lupin, however, is used to distrust and suspicion, and probably figured he'd be pushing Albus' good graces to let him in on the Sirius story too. 2. Did you have any suspicions about Scabbers not being a rat? After all, we already knew that he had been in the Weasley family for quite some time. No. It never occurred to me. 3. What did you think when Harry, Ron and Hermione disarmed Snape? Do you think they did the right thing or should they have waited for something actually to happen? I expected it from Harry and Ron. I did not expect it from Hermione. She's usually the levelheaded think-things-through type. But she was also suffering Time Turner burnout and Buckbeak stress, so I guess she was pushed to her limit. 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that Scabbers was actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it took Harry? Immediately upon hearing about Scabbers. I hadn't really suspected Black seriously [siriusly?] the whole book. I kept going, "He has to be innocent!" Especially considering he was the Potters' best man. 5. When Sirius told them about the night when James and Lily died, he had tears in his eyes. Did this scene have some kind of effect on you and deflected a bit from the evil wizard he was supposed to be? I felt very sad for Sirius. Not enough to cry myself, but I was all the more convinced of his sincerity. 6. Why do you think has Sirius waited so long before he escaped from Azkaban? After all, he could have gotten away years ago, since it couldn't have taken him twelve years to get thin enough to pass through the bars? He didn't know until he saw Scabbers in the photo that Pettigrew did still live. So he had no reason to escape, and until finding out that Scabbers was alive, he believed he'd betrayed his best friends and orphaned their child. Thus, given Sirius' loyalty and his hiss of "Then you should have DIED for them!" to Pettigrew, I am fairly certain Sirius believed he deserved no better than Azkaban for failing James and Lily. 7. When Sirius accused Pettigrew of having sold James and Lily to Voldemort, he was shaking all over. Why do you think did he have this kind of reaction? Horror that a friend could betray his best friends that way. Guilt at having put Pettigrew in a position to do so. Rage that Pettigrew had done so, and outrage at Pettigrew's cowardice and deceit. 8. We know Lupin as a very kind and calm person. Why do you think was he almost as eager to kill Pettigrew as Sirius was? Even a calm man can be driven to rage. Pettigrew killed the Potters, orphaned Harry, sentenced Harry to life with the Dursleys, and framed Sirius for it. I believe given how few friends he likely had as a kid, to my mind Remus' loyalty is probably right up there with his loyalty to blood family. 9. Now that you know what happened at the end of Book 4, do you think that Harry would have been better off if he would have let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew? Nope. Somebody else would've found the Big V and groveled to help him return to power. 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? None whatsoever. When he was revealed as an animagus, as compared to Padfoot the Dog, and Prongs the Stag, I immediately went: "Hmm, dogs are loyal. Stags are noble. What are rats?" 11. When Sirius offers Harry to live with him, Harry immediately says yes. Now, we know that there aren't many adults Harry trusts. Why do you think does he trust Sirius to the point of going to live with him, even though he has known him only for about an hour or so? Partly because Harry wants nothing more than to never go back to Privet Drive. Partly because he is, as time passes, becoming convinced that Sirius is in fact innocent. Sirius has no reason to attack Harry, so his offer is in good faith and has the air about it when he asks...as if he's thinking, "Like you'd really want to come with ME after *I* failed your parents..." Plus, Harry likes and admires Lupin. And Lupin considers Sirius like a brother to him, if their embrace in the American edition is to be believed. 12. Did you think that Harry really saw his father, or the ghost of his father across the lake, or did you think someone else must have cast the Patronus? At the time, I was sure it was a ghost or some other wizard. 13. Do you think it was an accident that this Dementor tried to administer the Kiss to Harry, or do you think the Dementors aren't as loyal to Fudge as he would like them to be? Given Book 4, I'm sure the Dementors aren't as loyal to Fudge as he wants to think. I think they just find Harry's emotions delicious, given they've messed with him before. From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 17:30:53 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:30:53 -0000 Subject: Black Eyes!! , more musings about Voldemort Message-ID: <9hqb4d+dmts@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21806 I won't have much time to write during the next days, so I give up every self-restraint today. Just one short word about black eyes: I'd willingly swap even with Neville Longbottom just to see Snape every day! (I've just managed to see the full version of the trailer- who'd have guessed? ;)) OK, let's become serious: In some post of last week, I read the ) (uncontradicted) phrase that Voldemort is heading towards world domination. IMHO, that's simply not true: He himself says to his DEs that (inexact quotation, as I have lent the book to my best friend) his "ultimate goal was to conquer DEATH". Why else would he have thought of giving his followers the strange name of "Death Eaters"? And wouldn't he have, during 11 years of steady rise to power, thought of expanding his reign outside England, if he had really aimed at dominating the world? As far as we know, wizard and Muggle killings have all taken place in England, there is no hint whatsoever at any V-activities in other countries. All the DEs are English, with the exception of Karkaroff, who IMO went to Hogwarts and was living in England, before being sentenced and, some time after his release, named Headmaster of Durmstrang. World domination would be a bit clich?, wouldn't it? It would make Voldemort another Lex Luthor or Dr. Mabuse. I think that conceiving him as the person who tries to overcome the ultimate obstacle, makes him a lot more frightening than "poltical" ambition. Susanna From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 17:51:04 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:51:04 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <000001c102c9$11d15ca0$0101010a@w98-1> Message-ID: <20010702175104.17888.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21807 --- Susan Hall ha scritto: That *is* a very interesting thought, honestly, I never looked at the problem from this point of view. In other words, the more sensitive you are, the easier Dementors get at you. OTOH, I can't imagine Fudge not having *any* happy thoughts at all. He certainly is a very down-to-earth person, but has his weak points, too. Think of his bristling up when Dumbledore suggest what he might do in order to prevent V. from getting allies (dementors, giants): There Fudge litterally freaks out. So I guess being minister means some kind of happiness for him. <(hence his worry over the Rita Skeeter article which <"unstable") and fears it. His own
Fudge most probably isn't *evil*, but, as you said so very well, he just can't imagine that Voldemort might come back. In fact, Fudge, more than a wizard,seems to be a Muggle as Mr. Weasley describes them: "Wouldn't recognize magic even if it stared right into their face". He's the one who would just close his eyes and pretend that what he doesn't want to see isn't there. Which makes him indeed very dangerous, less because of an eventual active involvement, but because he has the power, being MoM, to block all the necessary measures until it will be too late. Susanna /pigwidgeon37 _______ADMIN________ADMIN_______ADMIN__________

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______________________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Il tuo indirizzo gratis e per sempre @yahoo.it su http://mail.yahoo.it From joym999 at aol.com Mon Jul 2 17:58:00 2001 From: joym999 at aol.com (joym999 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:58:00 -0000 Subject: Nitpicking, contests, black hair In-Reply-To: <9hptg1+tm6r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hqcn8+58a5@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21808 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" wrote: > Ender asked the reasonable question: > > > Where in the books is Harry's hair described as "jet-black" (as > opposed to just "black")? > > Oh, wow, a nitpick question that no one has answered yet! My inner > LOON rejoices. As founder of L.O.O.N. (the League of Obsessive Nitpickers) I would like to thank Amy Z. for answering the above question, which I had been meaning to do but had not gotten around to. However, Amy Z. also says: > > I am a mature > grownup who does not obsess about the hair color of fictional > children. This is entirely the wrong spirit for a L.O.O.N. member. A good L.O.O.N. member proudly obsesses about every little detail in the HP books, thus giving him or her an excuse to read them for the 543rd time. Which brings us to this weeks HP4GU Contest. How does this bring us to the contest, you may be wondering, on the offchance anyone is still reading? Well, I will tell you. This weeks contest (#8) is your golden opportunity to nitpick, obsess, complain and whine to your hearts contest, at least about the trailers for the upcoming HP movie. Now, I know that some people have the mistaken impression that obsessing and nitpicking and whining and complaining are negative activities. These people have clearly never spent much time in my hometown, New York City, where complaining is the national sport. So I grant you all temporary Permits to Kvetch. Go to it! Deadline is July 10. Last weeks contest (#7) is still open -- submission deadline is tomorrow, Tuesday July 13, midnight EST. Submit your entry for the wizard or witch who is passing as a muggle. Entries so far include Boston Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez, basketball wizard Michael Jordan, and director Steven Spielberg. Please remember to email your entries. Do NOT post them to the list. Oh, and just to end this post with a whine, why couldnt they have just dyed Daniel Radcliffes hair black? Is it that hard? --Joywitch From jll3sonex at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 18:06:35 2001 From: jll3sonex at hotmail.com (jll3sonex at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:06:35 -0000 Subject: Black Eyes!! , more musings about Voldemort In-Reply-To: <9hqb4d+dmts@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hqd7b+m8on@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21809 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pigwidgeon37 at y... wrote: > OK, let's become serious: In some post of last week, I read the ) > (uncontradicted) phrase that Voldemort is heading towards world > domination. IMHO, that's simply not true: He himself says to his DEs > that (inexact quotation, as I have lent the book to my best friend) > his "ultimate goal was to conquer DEATH". Why else would he have > thought of giving his followers the strange name of "Death Eaters"? > And wouldn't he have, during 11 years of steady rise to power, > thought of expanding his reign outside England, if he had really > aimed at dominating the world? As far as we know, wizard and Muggle > killings have all taken place in England, there is no hint whatsoever > at any V-activities in other countries. All the DEs are English, with > the exception of Karkaroff, who IMO went to Hogwarts and was living > in England, before being sentenced and, some time after his release, > named Headmaster of Durmstrang. > World domination would be a bit clich?, wouldn't it? It would make > Voldemort another Lex Luthor or Dr. Mabuse. I think that conceiving > him as the person who tries to overcome the ultimate obstacle, makes > him a lot more frightening than "poltical" ambition. > > Susanna Hi! I find something you said interesting... "As far as we know.." - As far as WE know... and that's the problem. All we've SEEN is from a teen-ager's perspective. I may be wrong on this, but we (as readers) are encountering the history of the Wizarding world almost at the same rate as Harry is. We're getting fed bits and pieces as it's necessary. Nobody's mentioned V's activities in other countries - but then again Hitler wasn't much of a problem outside Germany until he consolidated his power base in the mid 30's and started expanding it. And consider trying to explain WW2 to a 13 year old who had no background in geography. (I hate to use WW2 as a parallel since it may seem like I'm saying the Harry Potter series is just a thin rewriting of the times - but that's what you get when you study history, you see parallels when you might not before...) Wouldn't you be tempted to tell the young teen-ager that there was a guy who was trying to take over, and it took a whole lot of people fighting and dying to stop him, rather than go into a long-winded explanation he may not have the background for in the first place? So you'd point the teen to some good books and movies on the subject. And there's ANOTHER problem, IMO. The general prohibition of even MENTIONING Voldemort's name doesn't help much either. He's been gone long enough so he's become the boogyman, and may well have more influence and power over people from their fear alone than from the actual magic he can perform to hurt them. (Witness the problems that Pettigrew had with his fear.) There's been no mention of books on the Voldemort Conflict, that I recall - so all you have is word of mouth, and that's pretty darn tightly closed off... So how is Harry (and by extension, the readers) supposed to learn the background? The Death Eaters, however, don't seem to have a problem organizing and likely recruiting. It's not about WORLD domination, at least at this point - it's about power and control to do what they want locally. Take control over the Wizarding world, then take control over the Muggles - then see where they go from there. Or so I think. That and 60 cents will get you a granola bar from the machine down the hall. It's just as nutty as I am. ;-) Jerry From jll3sonex at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 18:20:02 2001 From: jll3sonex at hotmail.com (jll3sonex at hotmail.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:20:02 -0000 Subject: Discovery about Cornelius fudge (might be very important) In-Reply-To: <20010702175104.17888.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9hqe0i+vdq8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21810 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Susanne Schmid wrote: > > Fudge most probably isn't *evil*, but, as you said so > very well, he just can't imagine that Voldemort might > come back. In fact, Fudge, more than a wizard,seems to > be a Muggle as Mr. Weasley describes them: "Wouldn't > recognize magic even if it stared right into their > face". He's the one who would just close his eyes and > pretend that what he doesn't want to see isn't there. > Which makes him indeed very dangerous, less because of > an eventual active involvement, but because he has the > power, being MoM, to block all the necessary measures > until it will be too late. > > > Susanna /pigwidgeon37 Hi! Oddly enough, I think Dumbledore's quite aware of the problem he's going to have convincing Fudge to act on the problem. He may well end up doing an end run and bypassing the MoM. (Hmmm. Think of Churchill in '35 going directly to William Randolph Hearst and Howard Hughes - and convincing them to help prepare England for the gathering storm... Of course, this would require sufficient persuading to get WRHearst to NOT be pro-Nazi, as he was in the '30s.) Oh, it just gets more fun as time goes on! (Simple Simon speculated, making up a rhyme. "Whoops" said he, "I clearly see.. It's the end of my lunch time!") Chat at ya'll later... Jerry From monika at darwin.inka.de Mon Jul 2 18:28:13 2001 From: monika at darwin.inka.de (Monika Huebner) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:28:13 +0200 Subject: [HPforGrownups] PoA Chapters 18-20 In-Reply-To: <9hq214+4kq7@eGroups.com> Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21811 > -----Original Message----- > From: Amy Z [mailto:aiz24 at hotmail.com] > Great summary and questions, Monika! Thanks. :) I had a lot of fun writing it. > In the English-language editions, he doesn't say that it looked like > his father until near the end of the next chapter ("Hermione's > Secret"), so I only had two pages in which to wonder (IIRC I was just > dazed and confused, and way too eager to get on with the story to > think it through--I certainly wasn't going to pause the tape to > consider theories). I do recall hoping that he didn't turn out not to > be dead after all--sorry, Harry. Does it mention James in "The > Dementor's Kiss" in the German version? Um, I guess I have to confess here that I have cheated a bit on this question. Sorry.... Of course I know that Harry just fainted at the end of chapter 20 and thus could not tell us that he thought he had seen his father... But I was desperately thinking about another question for chapter 20, and I remembered that I was confused about the Patronus when I read PoA for the first time. I admit that I had *no* idea who had cast it, and of course I didn't think a moment that it could have been Harry himself. BTW I have the British editions of the books, as well as the Stephen Fry readings of all four books. The German translation is so bad that I'd better not start commenting on it or I will go on rambling for a while... I am pretty sure I wouldn't love Sirius to pieces like I actually do if I had read the German version first. The translator managed to mess up those chapters quite royally. (e.g. no tears in Sirius' eyes, and the dialogues often take a rather different tone.) > Like Catherine, I think some unarticulated loyalty to Sirius and/or > likewise unarticulated conviction that he can't really have done what > he seems to have done may be part of Lupin's motivation. I tend to agree here. Maybe there had always been a lingering doubt about Sirius' guilt, even though the evidence spoke against him. It's very difficult to tell. What would we have done in his situation? I honestly have no answer to this. But I think I would have also hesitated to report someone I had been so close friends with. Monika ------ Book and movie reviews in English and German: http://sites.inka.de/darwin/indexalt.html From heymynameisabird at hotmail.com Mon Jul 2 18:51:03 2001 From: heymynameisabird at hotmail.com (Helen N) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:51:03 -0000 Subject: [HPforGrownups] Digest Number 1022 Message-ID: No: HPFGUIDX 21812 Craig: **Appropriately, I scored as being most like Ron on the "Which Harry Potter character are you like?" quiz. There's a which Harry Potter character are you like? quiz????? Where where where? (Not that I need it, I already know...) So...onto questions...(I'm pressed for time, so I'm only answering some of them) 2. Did you have any suspicions about Scabbers not being a rat? After all, we already knew that he had been in the Weasley family for quite some time. None whatsoever. And now I feel stoopid. 3. What did you think when Harry, Ron and Hermione disarmed Snape? Do you think they did the right thing or should they have waited for something actually to happen? Truly? I thought Woohoo! I think they did the right thing, but for the wrong reasons, because they didn't know the right reasons yet (if you follow me). But I was still glad. I think he's an extremely interesting character, but I'm NOT a Snape fan. 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that Scabbers was actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it took Harry? When Crookshanks sat on his chest. For some reason, I trusted Crookshanks right from the start - I saw him as grumpy, but good. I definately trusted Sirius after Lupin did - I never once doubted dear old Remus. 5. When Sirius told them about the night when James and Lily died, he had tears in his eyes. Did this scene have some kind of effect on you and deflected a bit from the evil wizard he was supposed to be? The bit that really tugged on my heartstrings was "You should have died. Died rather than betray your friends, as we would have done for you." Every time I read that it echos in my head... 9. Now that you know what happened at the end of Book 4, do you think that Harry would have been better off if he would have let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew? No. Harry refusing to let Pettigrew die is one of my favourite moments in the series so far. IMO, it shows that Harry is a fundamentally good person, because he knows that killing isnt right, whatever the circumstances. Of course, that's just my take on it, and I'm biased, being EXTREMELY anti-death penalty. 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? Yes, definately. Some Death Eaters seem to be what they are because they enjoy the power and the killing. Peter, to me at least, doesn't seem that way. He seems to be a Death Eater because he couldn't quite work out how to be anything else. I think he killed Lily and James because he saw it as his only option, because he was too scared to do anything else. I feel very sorry for someone who is that scared by his life. Now, empathy? That's different. I can't really empathise with Pettigrew, because I hope and believe that I would be braver and stronger than that. Though I s'pose you don't know until you've been in the same situation, in which case I hope I never know. 2 knuts from Helen --------------------------------------------------------------- Helmione Nightingranger - 87% obsessed with Harry Potter --------------------------------------------------------------- "... here is the deepest secret nobody knows (here is the root of the root and the bud of the bud and the sky of the sky of a tree called life; which grows higher than the soul can hope or mind can hide) and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart i carry your heart(i carry it in my heart)..." ~ E. E. Cummings --------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From meboriqua at aol.com Mon Jul 2 18:51:15 2001 From: meboriqua at aol.com (meboriqua at aol.com) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:51:15 -0000 Subject: PoA Chapters 18-20 Summary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <9hqfr3+e6d8@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21813 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Monika Huebner" wrote: > > 1. Do you think it was all right that Lupin didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius? I don't think it was all right, but it was certainly understandable. I'm not the first one to explain that Lupin doesn't exactly trust people, and I know he was worried that Dumbledore would no longer trust him if he told Dumbledore about the things he did as a student. I think Lupin was so pleased to have been hired by D that he was focused on keeping his job and D's trust. Sirius was not in the forefront of his thoughts. > > 3. What did you think when Harry, Ron and Hermione disarmed Snape? Do you think they did the right thing or should they have waited for something actually to happen? I thought they were frustrated and exhausted. Of course, once again, they did not do the right thing, but what they did was understandable. Snape was completely unwilling to listen, a plot device that drives me nuts, and they wanted him to shut up and hear Sirius and Lupin out. I, too am sorry, though, that Snape did not have a chance to see Pettigrew. I wonder how he would have reacted to that. > > 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that Scabbers was actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it took Harry? When I read for the first time, I am usually too caught up in the story to analyze, so I assumed Sirius was bad - until he went to see if Ron's leg was okay. The fact that he cared about Ron's well being showed me that he was no murderer. > > 6. Why do you think has Sirius waited so long before he escaped from Azkaban? After all, he could have gotten away years ago, since it couldn't have taken him twelve years to get thin enough to pass through the bars? If he had escaped years earlier, where would he have gone? He couldn't possibly have been able to find Pettigrew. When he saw the Daily Prophet with Pettigrew's photo in it, he had a plan. He had a new thought that he (and people here) explained was not a happy thought, but one that kept him sane (and focused). I'm sure seeing a happy and healthy Scabbers on the shoulder of a boy who attended Hogwarts with his godson was enough to make Sirius able to fight the dementors. > > 7. When Sirius accused Pettigrew of having sold James and Lily to Voldemort, he was shaking all over. Why do you think did he have this kind of reaction? Confrontations can be very intense and the emotions of the moment can take over. I would have reacted quite similarly. > > 9. Now that you know what happened at the end of Book 4, do you think that Harry would have been better off if he would have let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew? Don't we all know that somehow, in the next three books, Pettigrew will sacrifice himself to save Harry? I don't think that Harry would have felt good about allowing someone to die in front of him. He did the right thing. > > 10. Did you feel any kind of sympathy for Pettigrew? For someone weak and cowardly enough to allow his best friends and parents of a baby to be murdered? I have no room in my heart for Peter Pettigrew. His sniveling excuses meant nothing to me; plenty of others have fought Voldie and lost because they were better people. > > 11. When Sirius offers Harry to live with him, Harry immediately says yes. Now, we know that there aren't many adults Harry trusts. Why do you think does he trust Sirius to the point of going to live with him, even though he has known him only for about an hour or so? I, too would jump at the chance to live with a wizard who knew me when I was a baby, knew my parents well, and would dote on me and no one else. Harry is isolated and abused by the Dursleys; Sirius would give the care and love he has so rarely received. Besides, Sirius proved his innocence completely enough, as well as showed respect for Harry by obeying Harry's wish to not kill Pettigrew. > > 12. Did you think that Harry really saw his father, or the ghost of his father across the lake, or did you think someone else must have cast the Patronus? You know, it's so hard for me to say what I thought when I first read the book. I might have thought some form of Harry's father was there, but I just don't remember. > > 13. Do you think it was an accident that this Dementor tried to administer the Kiss to Harry, or do you think the Dementors aren't as loyal to Fudge as he would like them to be? Dementors make a mistake? I doubt it. Fudge may think he has control over the demenotrs, but I think they go along with him to get what they want, which is lots of tasty emotions to feast on. They could turn on Fudge and suck out his soul tomorrow if they choose to. --jenny from From golden_faile at yahoo.com Mon Jul 2 19:02:07 2001 From: golden_faile at yahoo.com (golden faile) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: MOVIE: Harry's haircolor In-Reply-To: <9hptg1+tm6r@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702190207.53460.qmail@web14608.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21814 I don't > know if human hair > comes in true black at all, regardless of race. > What I get from JKR's > descriptions is actually in keeping with this fact: > namely, Harry's > hair is unusually dark. This is what I also think. I don't think people can actually have black hair unless it comes form a bottle. Every person I've ever thought had black hair(upon closer examination)turned out to have extremely dark brown hair. There was always some type of highlight there, no matter what the race of people. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From indigo at indigosky.net Mon Jul 2 19:03:10 2001 From: indigo at indigosky.net (Indigo) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:03:10 -0000 Subject: PoA Chapters 18-20 Summary In-Reply-To: <9hqfr3+e6d8@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <9hqghe+nhdn@eGroups.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21815 --- In HPforGrownups at y..., meboriqua at a... wrote: > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Monika Huebner" wrote: > > > > I, too am sorry, though, that Snape did not have a chance to see > Pettigrew. I wonder how he would have reacted to that. > Yes, that frustrated me to the point of screaming when I read the book for the first time [thorougly startling my hairstylist!] > > > 4. When did you start to believe Sirius? When you heard that > Scabbers was actually an Animagus or did it take you as long as it > took Harry? > > When I read for the first time, I am usually too caught up in the > story to analyze, so I assumed Sirius was bad - until he went to see > if Ron's leg was okay. The fact that he cared about Ron's well being > showed me that he was no murderer. That he actually permitted Ron's leg to break in the first place is what nearly convinced me he WAS the horrible person he was made out to be at that point. > > > > 11. When Sirius offers Harry to live with him, Harry immediately > says yes. Now, we know that there aren't many adults Harry trusts. Why > do you think does he trust Sirius to the point of going to live with > him, even though he has known him only for about an hour or so? > > I, too would jump at the chance to live with a wizard who knew me when > I was a baby, knew my parents well, and would dote on me and no one > else. Harry is isolated and abused by the Dursleys; Sirius would give > the care and love he has so rarely received. Besides, Sirius proved > his innocence completely enough, as well as showed respect for Harry > by obeying Harry's wish to not kill Pettigrew. Excellent point. There are so few adults [Dumbledore, Hagrid, Lupin] who respect Harry. The others either revere him or treat him like he's a poor clueless git [which to their minds, having been raised amongst muggles, he probably is to some degree] as well as "just a child." An adult who respects Harry probably earns his respect and trust again. > > > > 13. Do you think it was an accident that this Dementor tried to > administer the Kiss to Harry, or do you think the Dementors aren't as > loyal to Fudge as he would like them to be? > > Dementors make a mistake? I doubt it. Fudge may think he has control > over the demenotrs, but I think they go along with him to get what > they want, which is lots of tasty emotions to feast on. They could > turn on Fudge and suck out his soul tomorrow if they choose to. [shiver] Creepy thought. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy. ::scowl:: Indigo From pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it Mon Jul 2 19:19:01 2001 From: pigwidgeon37 at yahoo.it (=?iso-8859-1?q?Susanne=20Schmid?=) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 21:19:01 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [HPforGrownups] Re: Black Eyes!! , more musings about Voldemort In-Reply-To: <9hqd7b+m8on@eGroups.com> Message-ID: <20010702191901.59920.qmail@web14701.mail.yahoo.com> No: HPFGUIDX 21816 --- jll3sonex at hotmail.com ha scritto: < <--- In HPforGrownups at y..., pigwidgeon37 at y... <> OK, let's become serious: In some post of last <> (uncontradicted) phrase that Voldemort is <> domination. IMHO, that's simply not true: He <> that (inexact quotation, as I have lent the book <<> his "ultimate goal was to conquer <> thought of giving his followers the strange name <> And wouldn't he have, during 11 years of steady <> thought of expanding his reign outside England, <> aimed at dominating the world? As far as we <> killings have all taken place in England, there <> at any V-activities in other countries. All the <> the exception of Karkaroff, who IMO went to <> in England, before being sentenced and, some