Apology - Sirius again...

[koinonia02 at yahoo.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 22501

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., monika at d... wrote:
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Amy Z" <aiz24 at h...> wrote:
> 
> 
> > Koinonia wrote:
> > 
> > >The question should be 'is Sirius really a good guy?'
> > 
> > I find that very easy to answer:  YES.  Like Snape, he isn't 
always 
> > *nice*, but he's definitely *good.*  I find his flaws more 
> tolerable 
> > than Snape's because while Sirius has shown himself to be 
> thoughtless, 
> > I don't ever see him being cruel, and cruelty is the hardest 
thing 
> for 
> > me to forgive (and, ::turns on broken record::, he was 
thoughtless 
> > when he was *16* and grudge-filled when he was *just out of 
> > Azkaban*--I can cut him some slack).  But I know this is one we 
> have 
> > to agree to disagree on.
> 
> Ok, I didn't want to say anything about it this time, but here I am 
> again (I therefore left the "apology" in the subject line).
> I am utterly bewildered that anyone can think that Sirius is *not* 
a 
> good guy, and I won't repeat everything I have already said a dozen 
> times or so, but someone who has been tortured for 12 years *does 
> not* behave in a way that we would conceive as "normal". That's a 
> fact, I am sorry to repeat it, and anyone who objects here should 
do 
> some reading about what happens to long-time political prisoners 
> and/or victims of torture. So, the behaviour we see in PoA is what 
is 
> to be expected from someone who has spent the last twelve years 
under 
> such inhuman conditions like Azkaban. 
> 
> As for Sirius' presumed sexiness, I don't think he really is 
> physically attractive right now, so I don't think it plays such a 
> great part in why I like him so much. And btw, good looks are only 
so 
> much, they aren't everything. Of course he is attractive - he was 
> written to be attractive - but it doesn't mean we let him get away 
> with anything just because of this. Agreed, I let him get away with 
> what he did in PoA, but mostly because I am convinced he can't be 
> held responsible for it. This does *not* mean that I think that 
what 
> he did was right (slashing the Fat Lady, slashing Ron's bed 
curtains 
> or trying to choke Harry in the Shrieking Shack), I just believe 
> those weren't acts of cruelty, but incidents IMO caused by his PTSD.
> 
> Sorry, just had to point this out again.
> Monika

Okay.  Where to start!  First off I never said Sirius wasn't a good 
guy (on the good side I should say).  I personally think he is.  
HOWEVER, I wouldn't put it past JKR to have him be truly evil.  He is 
the guy with the looks, the nice sense of humor, the brains, someone 
Harry now trusts.  On the other hand we have Snape, who seems to be 
just the opposite of Sirius with the exception of brain power.  You 
are suppose to hate Snape.  JKR has done her best to make sure we 
do.  She is setting us up for something much later down the line.  
This book is also about *trusting* and I can see where Harry will 
trust those who are not on the good side.  It's possible Sirius might 
be one of those people.

I do believe Sirius has a cruel side.  Does anyone remember the *The 
Map*?  

*Mr Padfoot would like to register his astonishment that an idiot 
like that ever became a Professor*

That is cruel.  It doesn't matter at what age he said it.

How about *Mr Prongs agrees with Mr Moony, and would like to add that 
Professor Snape is an ugly git*...and...*Mr Moony presents his 
compliments to Professor Snape, and begs him to keep his abnormally 
large nose out of other people's business*...and...Mr. Wormtail bids 
Professor Snape good day, and advises him to wash his hair, the 
slimeball*

Nice group of kids!

Or how about Sirius as an adult telling Ron, Hermione, and Harry that 
Snape was a *slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid*.  That was a nice way 
for Sirius to talk about *Professor Snape* in front of the kids.  My 
point is that Sirius does have a cruel streak in him.

I don't think we can truly judge the actions of Snape or Sirius in 
POA until we know the full story of why they hate each other so much. 
I just get tired of people excusing Sirius behavior because he was 
young, or because he was a prisoner, or because it was all Snape's 
fault and so on......he was wrong on some things.  

I don't like the idea that we can't hold Sirius responsible for his 
actions because he was a prisoner.  I don't believe it was PTSD that 
made Sirius act the way he did while inside Hogwarts.  This is just 
the way he does things. I am not saying that he didn't suffer while 
at Azkaban or afterwards.  Of course he did.  What I object to is 
making excuses for people when they do wrong.  Voldemort suffers from 
a certain type of mental illness so we can't hold him responsible.  
Poor, poor Peter.  Surely he suffered some mental childhood abuse so 
we must understand why he became the way he did.  Barty Crouch Sr and 
Jr ---the same thing.  Good grief!  Everyone is suffering from some 
type of mental disorder. The fact is some people are just plain mean 
and some people just choose evil.

I know I am ranting but I just couldn't help myself ;-)  

I don't excuse Snape for his rudeness or cruelty.  I do believe that 
there is so much more to the man and why he is as he is.  What 
surprises me is that people are willing to excuse the actions of so 
many in the book but are not even willing to consider that Snape 
might have had a very nasty and unpleasant life himself.  Not that it 
would make his actions acceptable but it would help us to understand 
him more.

For those who think Snape is a bully....he is.  For those who think 
it is weakness to pick on those younger and weaker than you....it 
is.  But the guy isn't all bad.  He is a very brave man.  Spying on 
Voldemort is almost a certain death sentence. He is willing to put 
his life on the line in some way even now.  He is strong in many ways.
He better be.

As for Sirius, I have a feeling he was a bully while at school also.  
Not in the way Snape is but in his own way.  A cocky, can't do no 
wrong, popular bully. For some reason I still like him!

Koinonia