Fangs for mentioning this - glad you got my point...

[dfrankiswork at netscape.net]

No: HPFGUIDX 22635

Koinonia wrote:
>
> Kelley wrote:
> > > David <dfrankis at d...> wrote (over two weeks ago):
> > >
> > > David, wondering whether we will be allowed to see Alan Rickman's 
> > > canines. >>>>>
> > 
> > Yes, I know I'm ridiculously behind;

On the contrary, Kelley, I'm delighted that my posts have such a long shelf life! I'd like to see more discussion based on some of the old stuff before I joined - If only the Yahoo search facilities were less cumbersome.
> 

Koinonia:
> 
> I was going to post again on why I believe Snape is a vampire but 
> instead of doing it in a separate post I am just going to make some 
> comments here.

I will add mine where I think I have something new to say.
> 
Kelley: 
> > Other "Snape -is- a vampire" thoughts I've been mulling over:
> > 
> > Was he a vampire before he became a DE? Did Vold want him for this 
> > reason? Or, did he become a vampire after becoming a DE? If 
> after, 
> > was this forced upon him? Did he turn against Vold because of what 
> > Vold had done to him? (And, is this why he is now so trusted by 
> > Dumble?) Or, did he become a vampire of his own will, and later 
> came 
> > to regret it for some reason?

Obviously there are many possibilities here, not least that Voldemort might regard vampirism as one way to immortality (it seems a bit too easy though - suggests that JKR's vampires aren't immortal or at least he hasn't yet figured the counter-stake spell). I find DE attitudes to 'Dark' beings intriguing. Voldemort clearly feels at home with Dementors, Giants etc, but the one would think that the 'purity' trend in society represented by Lucius Malfoy would have a wizards-only approach and lump vampires and werewolves and others together for destruction. Of course Voldemort might intend to kill off other beings once he has used them. So there is plenty of scope for luring a young vampire with promises of 'being given his rightful place', only for him to later find out that that means being on cocktail stick with garlic dressing at the coronation Buffet.

Koinonia:
> Here we go! When I first read the theories about Snape being a 
> vampire I liked the theory that he became one after becoming a DE and 
> that only after Voldemort was defeated would he be able to become 
> normal again. However, after reading GoF I have come to another 
> conclusion. I believe Snape has always been a vampire or at least 
> was one when he first arrived at Hogwarts. Let me say here I think 
> most of Snape's problems came about before he ever stepped foot in 
> Hogwarts. Where did he come from and who are his parents? I so want 
> to know. The reason I think Snape came to Hogwarts as a vampire is 
> his appearance. I mentioned this on the snapesfans board and it 
> didn't go over very well! Sirius mentions Snape as a 'slimy, oily, 
> greasy-haired kid.' Here we find out Snape has always looked as he 
> does now. I think that is a clue. 
> 
> I think Dumbledore has always known what Snape is. Again, Dumbledore 
> is giving someone a chance to live as normal of a life as they can. 
> He has done the same for Hagrid and Lupin. I'm sure there are others 
> he has done this for. In Gof Fudge tells Dumbledore: "I might not 
> have agreed with some of your decisions, but I've kept quiet. There 
> aren't many who'd have let you hire werewolves, or keep Hagrid...." I 
> can just see Snape standing there, thinking...'or hire vampires.'

Just to pick up on points by Monika and others. Lupin, when he was found out by his friends, kept those friends and started on the most exciting phase of his life. We don't know what Snape's experience was, but if he met with suspicion and hostility from people who guessed his identity, he was probably furious with Lupin - it's so *unfair*. In his place, I probably would have been. He doesn't really have to be prejudiced, just hurt.

Koinonia
> I think you are so right about the importance of the Rita Skeeter 
> statement. GoF Ch 10: "That woman's got it in for the Ministry of 
> Magic!" said Percy furiously. "Last week she was saying we're 
> wasting our time quibbling about cauldron thickness, when we should 
> be stamping out vampires! As if it wasn't specifically stated in 
> paragraph twelve of the Guidelines for the Treatment of Non-Wizard 
> Part-Humans___"
> 
> Stamp out vampire? Are they protected under some special law? Are 
> they only part-human?

Indeed. I understand this passage to say that the wizarding world is deeply divided over vampires. They are 'protected' (under what conditions - apartheid?) by MOM Guidelines, which probably have the force of law but are relatively easily changed, perhaps merely on ministerial authority, but many wizards (Rita always writes what she knows people want to hear) think they should be stamped out. So Rita's article might quite easily change the law if public opinion could be whipped up. BTW, I think Percy's reaction is more than just rule-obeying: he has principles. (We do have to consider the alternative that the Guidelines say vampires should be stamped out and Percy is saying the MOM is already highly effective).
> 
> There would be no way Snape could attend Hogwarts as a vampire unless 
> he was able to hide what he is. It's the prejudice thing again. 
> 
> Kelly wrote;
> > (And would this mean other DEs are 
> > vampires? Or, many vampires are DEs? This would seem like a 
> > desirable 'change' for TRjr to undergo in his quest for 
> > immortality...)
> 
> 
> > Lupin definitely knows what Snape is; does Sirius? Did James? 
> Does 
> > Hermione?
> 
> I think Lupin, Sirius, Dumbledore and Voldemort know. I'm not sure 
> about anyone else at the school. It's possible Hermione knows. I do 
> believe she would keep quiet about it.

How does Snape feel about the fact that her parents are dentists? Nothing like a quick bit of cosmetic orthodontistry to cramp your style in the bloodsucking department.

Kelley:
> >I also suspect that Hagrid knows. He's very adamant that 
> > Snape would never hurt a student, but he does get a bit shifty when 
> > the topic of Snape's hatred of Harry comes up; of course, there 
> could 
> > be other reasons for this (and, it doesn't seem to have much to do 
> > with Snape being a vampire, but I still suspect...).

Koinonia: 
> I think Hagrid knows quite a bit about Snape that he isn't telling. 
> He is rather adamant that Snape would never harm a child. Just as 
> half-giant Hagrid would never harm a child, maybe he is accepting of 
> what Snape is and believes Snape also would never hurt the students. 

Of course, whatever Snape's secrets really are, this general line of reasoning about Hagrid would apply.

> As far as Snape's hatred for Harry, well I think that's about 
> something else we don't truly know about yet. It's not about 
> Quidditch or James saving Snape's life IMHO.

What about Order of Merlin, 2nd class? Harry is well on the way to getting this - Snape keeps missing out.
> 
Kelley again:
> > Does Neville subconsciously (or even consciously) know? Or sense 
> > *something* about Snape? (Is this why he especially fears him? 
> > Seems like there's more to it than Snape's bullying of Neville, but 
> > maybe not.)

and Koinonia: 
> It just seems there has to be more to Snape/Neville than just a mean 
> teacher taking advantage of a weak kid. I do believe Neville knows 
> something. Maybe he is remembering events from the past as he is 
> getting older.

I see it as being the other way round. Neville's parents upset Snape in their Auroring days (we can't assume Snape now just hates all the DEs - surely he wants them to follow his own path back to the light - take Lucius for example). He therefore picks on Neville, who is less well-equipped to deal with this than Harry and Hermione. N, however, when confronted with Boggart-Snape, does subconsciously invoke his grandmother.
> 
Kelley 
> >Then again, maybe Snape gave the Lestranges, and whoever 
> > else, the info to find the Longbottoms. 

Only if they acted on it long after, as Snape went over to Dumbledore before V's downfall. 
> 
> This starts a new topic. Why does Dumbledore trust Snape? I just 
> can't see Dumbledore hiring Snape if he ever gave information that 
> lead to anyone's death or torture (like the Longbottoms). Especially 
> the Longbottoms. I can't see Dumbledore letting Snape teach Neville 
> and treat him so horrible. I would be disappointed in D. if that 
> were the case. Whatever Snape did it would have to be something 
> huge. It would have to be something more than telling D. that 
> Voldemort was after the Potters. It would have to be something more 
> than 'I just changed my mind.' Dumbledore does seem to trust Snape 
> completely. Why? Either Snape did something 'really' big or he has 
> always been working for Dumbledore. Another thought is that Snape 
> has his own personal reasons for wanting/needing Voldemort to be 
> defeated. He stands to gain something and Dumbledore knows that 
> Snape will do his best to defeat Voldemort.

If we follow the vampire theory, maybe he either sacrificed his apparent non-vampire standing with key wizard people (but who? - not Sirius), or he took risks among other vampires to turn them from Voldemort.
> 
Finally, I think there are major problems with the Snape as vampire theory. The main one being that we take bats, garlic etc as indicative but have to hypothesise potions etc for sunlight and dietary needs. If we're not careful we end up saying he's a special Snape-type being called a vampire as defined by JKR, which is not a theory at all, just a tautology. The other is that it doesn't, IMO, really go to the root of Snape's dislike of Harry, Hermione, and Neville (despite what I say above). So its not *the* Grand Theory of Everything Severus.

I'm with Amy Z on the disappointment that a re-run of the Remus Lupin story with leathery wings would entail: however, I think there is mileage in the idea of a race of truly Dark beings who might be redeemed, compared to the merely misunderstood Giants and Werewolves.

David, still ponering a reply to message 9358, Jan 16.


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