Ethnic stereotyping, hybrids, time and animagi

[Tabouli]

No: HPFGUIDX 20608

Ebony wrote:

> Sure, it'd be interesting to see what Rowling would do with exploring the 
so-called ethnic characters lives' in depth.  Personally, I'd *much* rather 
see this not done at all than done poorly... 

> This is just my personal preference, but I appreciate it a lot better when a 
writer allows me, the reader, to fill in the blanks instead of filling them 
in incorrectly with guesses and half-baked stereotypes.  I appreciate JKR 
immediately for doing this, and plan to follow her example in my own 
writing.

Glad you (Ebony) appreciated my post on this issue!  With the first point above, I agree: hence my comment that JKR's efforts, though they could be construed as a bit tokenistic, are well-intentioned and a positive step.  With regard to the second point, though, what are everyone's thoughts on her efforts with the portrayal of the French and Eastern Europeans in GoF?  I don't own this book yet (waiting for the paperback, read it from the library after a long wait!), but I seem to recall a whiff of francophobia and a touch of the ol' grim Iron Curtainism, though given the distance at which most Hogwarts students would have observed them, this isn't surprising.  As David said:

> a great many of the HP characters start off as stereotypes and then move out from that position.

Speaking of stereotyping and Iron Curtainism, someone mentioned the work of David Eddings.  Now *there's* a good example of ethnic stereotyping for us!  Much as I loved DE as a teenager, and still find them good fun, I wince a little when I reread the Belgariad and co.  How did I manage to miss the symbolism of the Free West and the Oppressed East, and the blatant "butchering 5000 baddies is a cause for celebration, but let the baddies kill ONE good guy and we declare them evil and swear vengeance unto eternity"??  And the feminists could go through him with a machete...

Ahhh, so much musing on good ol' Snape. Where would half of our speculations be without him?  By far the most intriguing character in the series.  I'm still a proponent of Snape/Lily, though: you vampirical types haven't convinced me yet!  As to Dumbledore and Snape, I'm with whoever said that Dumbledore has respect and understanding for Snape (whether or not he actually "likes" Snape seems almost irrelevant).  Which is fair enough, if Snape successfully extricated himself from the Death Eaters and has since been spying on Voldemort's minions for him.  That must have taken considerable craftiness and strength of character, even if it has left him bitter and spiteful (and taking this out on students he dislikes).

The lurking Betty said:
> I think the reason Krum and Cedric had Hermione and Cho instead of
family was romantic love.  We all know that love is a strong emotion,
especially when it's new like an infatuation or a new relationship.
Fleur and Harry, who have no romantic interests, have other bonds with
the people.  Ron is the first friend Harry made at Hogwarts, so no
matter what happens, he'll always be special.  Come to that, Ron is the
first friend Harry ever has.  Fleur may not have many friends, if any,
because of how aloof she seems.  However, family is usually important to
someone, and for all we know, it may be all Fleur has.

No rotten tomatoes from me for this: it makes extremely good sense to me.  I suspect Fleur may have fallen to the victimising beautiful women and surviving on constant male attention syndrome I described.  As for Malfoy being part-Veela, this would fit with his colouring, but not with his loud proclamations about pure blood, which seem quite cocky and genuine and not the protesting-too-much of someone rejecting their own impurity.

On the subject of hybrids, here's an excerpt from a message I posted on the usenet Harry Potter list (which few people responded to, grumble, grumble)

OK, so Hagrid and Maxime are both half-giants, which means that humans and giants can "mate"
and produce viable, albeit huge, offspring.  Similarly, Fleur is part-Veela.
Does this mean that all of the humanoid creatures (goblins, 
house-elves,centaurs, hags, trolls, etc.) in HP could theoretically
interbreed with the magic community?  What happens if animagi reproduce
while in animal form??  Oo-er, think about the possibilities this raises...

Flitwick: Secret love child of Dumbledore and Winky!
Crookshanks: Offspring of a lamented liaison between McGonagall in tabby form and Mrs Figg's orange Kneazle!
Crabbe & Goyle: Products of Voldemort's sinister dabblings in Death Eater-troll liaisons in an attempt to swell the ranks of evil!

Alex said:
> Do fundamentalist Christians exist in Britain?  I was hoping that the
species doesn't spread that far.  Ick.  I was thinking, though, how Cho's
parents would have acted when they first discovered, assuming, of course,
that they aren't completely British-ized

Well I'm Australian, so I can't speak with authority about Britain, but fundamentalist Christians certainly exist here, if not in such quantities and state-supported fervour as they do in the States (if our Prime Minister started going on about God's guidance he'd be laughed out of office.  Australians are by and large a cynical, secular bunch).

I too have long mused that Cho may have had a rocky road to Hogwarts.  I've never noticed embracing a child who is markedly different from the Chinese ideal (accomplished, impressive in the "child as family mascot" competition, conservative in dress and social behaviour, respectful of parents, academically brilliant, employed in high-status field with financial security, married to good catch by mid to late twenties, etc.) being the rule in the wealthy Australian Chinese community where I grew up.  Quite the contrary... I found my mother being beset with shame to mention to her Chinese friends that I was studying *Arts*, of all low-status degrees, when their children were all doing sensible, career-oriented, high status courses, like Medicine, Dentistry, Commerce and so on!  "Aiyah, Arts!" she would wail in anguish.  "Can't I tell them you are doing Science?  Science is not so bad as Arts!"  I tremble to imagine her response to her daughter going off at 11 to study witchcraft...

> Yay!  I support that ship (which is strange, 'cause I've been advocating for Ron/Draco in my hpslash group...).

Ron and *Draco*??  Blimey, there's a combination.  BTW, are there any slashfic writers who've followed the line of Colin Creevey being in love with Harry?  Now that could be a work of comic genius... 

I think Colin and Ginny are both selling themselves short in Harry's esteem for the same reason: they are preoccupied not with Harry the person, but with Harry the famous historical figure.  Just a more romanticised version of gawping at his scar, really: all a bit undignified.  Granted, Ginny has also experienced the human side of Harry, but the hero-worship came first.

>> Speaking of which, Hermione must have done a lot of extra ageing in PoA...
>> maybe that's why she's so much more mature and politically aware in GoF!

> Don't know, isn't it just the usual thing of girls maturing faster than boys
of the same age?  Both physically and mentally?  And emotionally.

I was thinking about the other implications of doing an extra... five hours a day?  She could well be several months older than the others after a year on the Time-Turner!  Or doesn't it work like that?  I cast forth the question for thoughts...

Pippin said:
> > I beg to differ about there being no equivalent of animagi outside the Harry
> > Potter universe. 

> Don't forget the Animorphs series of YA books by A.K. Applegate. 

Animagi: dime a dozen in the fantasy genre.  Mythology is riddled with them, classic tales like Cinderella have them, not to mention fantasy by Piers Anthony, Nancy Springer, Ursula LeGuin, Terry Pratchett, David Eddings, CS Lewis, etc.etc.  Even if you limit it to people who stay sentient after transforming into animals there must be hundreds of examples.


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