Harry's Scar
Rebecca Boswell
rboswell at mediaone.net
Sun Mar 4 03:47:24 UTC 2001
No: HPFGUIDX 13507
<snip?>
Am I being paranoid, or do you get the sense they're teasing us? I
can just see the editor now, deciding to cut an otherwise perfect shot
out of the trailer because it shows The Scar and we aren't supposed to
see it yet!
Or maybe they've decided to make Harry scarless. I mean,
it's not that central to the plot, right? (evil screenwriter's laugh)
<un-snip>
Nooo, Harry's scar is very essential! The scar is the aftermath of the
curse that changed Harry's life, and it is obvious the scar has more meaning
than it's current, if the last word of the seventh book (a well known
rumour) *is* scar. Plus, if it's not there, I know for a fact that JKR
would have a royal fit as well as all of us potter-maniacs. :-)
--Becca
----- Original Message -----
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Order of the Phoenix Pre-Sale
> From: wings909 at aol.com
> 2. Re: (trailer) question on the Great Hall
> From: Morsus Crustum <shades_of_black at mail.com>
> 3. Re: (trailer) question on the Great Hall
> From: wings909 at aol.com
> 4. Re: Trailer stills
> From: flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com
> 5. Re: Trailer stills
> From: rcraigharman at hotmail.com
> 6. Re: Trailer stills
> From: pbnesbit at msn.com
> 7. Re: Trailer stills
> From: flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com
> 8. Screaming scene
> From: foxmoth at qnet.com
> 9. Casting for the twins?
> From: "Kelley" <SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com>
> 10. Re: The trailer (Percy and Hagrid's line)
> From: "Saitaina" <saitaina at wizzards.net>
> 11. Re: trailer thoughts on th e"last line"
> From: Persephone <hermitchick at crosswinds.net>
> 12. Finding the trailer on Dark Horizons
> From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
> 13. Re: The trailer (Hagrid's line)
> From: "Trina" <lj2d30 at gateway.net>
> 14. Re: Screaming scene
> From: "Ebony AKA AngieJ" <ebonyink at hotmail.com>
> 15. Scar, Boy Who Lived (was Screaming scene)
> From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
> 16. Re: trailer music
> From: "Caius Marcius" <coriolan at worldnet.att.net>
> 17. Wingardium Leviosa (trailer)
> From: Kathleen Kelly MacMillan <kathleen at carr.org>
> 18. RE: Wingardium Leviosa (trailer)
> From: Morsus Crustum <shades_of_black at mail.com>
> 19. Re: Wingardium Leviosa Scene
> From: morine10 at aol.com
> 20. Re: Harry and Cedric, with a stab at definition
> From: Jen Faulkner <jfaulkne at er5.rutgers.edu>
> 21. Re: (trailer) question on the Great Hall
> From: Teek <purdymango1 at yahoo.com>
> 22. trailer help (no spoilers)
> From: aichambaye at yahoo.com
> 23. He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Name (who Voldemort?) Shhh!!!!
> From: "Scott" <harry_potter00 at yahoo.com>
> 24. Re: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Name (who Voldemort?) Shhh!!!!
> From: wings909 at aol.com
> 25. trailer
> From: kris403 at yahoo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:53:53 EST
> From: wings909 at aol.com
> Subject: Order of the Phoenix Pre-Sale
>
> This may already be old news or not, but Amazon.com has The Order of the
Phoenix on pre-sale. They have the publication date set for 2002!
>
> Amazon.co.uk doesn't have the OotP on pre-sale yet, but they do mention
that GoF will be on sale in paperback in July 2001.
>
> Well, at least we have the Quidditch Though the Ages, and Fantastic Beasts
books to help us with the withdrawal.
>
> Cheers,
> Paula
> Gryffindor (86% obsessed...I've lost my mind)
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 14:59:15 -0500 (EST)
> From: Morsus Crustum <shades_of_black at mail.com>
> Subject: Re: (trailer) question on the Great Hall
>
> W
> H
> Y
>
> H
> A
> V
> E
> N
> '
> T
>
> Y
> O
> U
>
> S
> E
> E
> N
>
> I
> T
>
> B
> Y
>
> N
> O
> W
> ?
>
>
> *looks dazed* Errrgh. I stayed up most of the night reading and re-reading
> and re-re-reading PS and I cannot, for the life of me, find any scene in
> which Hagrid walks The Trio down to his hut. He sends them invitations by
> owl. *beats head against keyboard*
> As for the now infamous Scream scene... There is not a scene where this
> happens. At all. So this means they have changed the script. I seriously
> doubt that this is the ghost-in-the-Great-Hall thing, simply because they
> weren't standing together at that point (and if they were, Neville would
be
> with them since he was in thier boat), there isn't anyone else around,
they
> turn and run away, and, um, the trump card: wizards and witches would know
> about ghosts. For cripe's sake, Ron has a goul living in his attic (better
> than a skeleton in his closet, LOL). I know that there are gasps and
shreiks
> in the book, but I presume that is from the Muggle borns. The part where
> they are running through a classroom is supposed to be day time. Freeze it
> at some point - the light cast on the far wall is white, which signifies
it
> isn't candle light. Plus, it's in roughly the same shape as a window.
> *wiggles eyebrows* Thank you, thank you, no applause, just throw money.
> As for the theory that this is the Fluffy Thing - no. One of the main
points
> in that whole escapade was the fact Hermione was interfering with their
> plans. She was waiting up for them. Besides, you think they would cut the
> part where Hermione is wearing a pink bathrobe? ^_^ I doubt it. Neville is
> crucial because this is where we learn more about Madam Pomfrey's cures.
> "[My arm is] fine....Madam Pomfrey mended it in about a minute." * plus *
> the running thing is during the day, as stated above. Unless, of course,
it
> is a spliced scene, mixing two events, which it very well could be. Hum.
>
> MC/Blythe Spirit/Dervish
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
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>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 15:19:03 EST
> From: wings909 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: (trailer) question on the Great Hall
>
> I'm almost positive that they have *added* scenes or changed certain
ones....this should be no big surprise to anyone who's ever followed a
book-to-film process. While there are a lot of HP fans out there, as I see
from the steady river of email in my box a day, but this movie will
primarily be for those muggles who have no inkling about who Harry Potter
is. They're making a movie that will be based on the book, but...you won't
have to read the book to understand what's going on in the movie.
>
> The "screaming" scene may very well have no basis in the book, something
the movie-makers stuck in the middle of the movie as a scare. Dear me, can
everyone imagine what this list will be like when the movie *does* come out?
>
> Cheers,
> Paula
> Gryffindor (86% obsessed...I'm nutters)
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 20:32:42 -0000
> From: flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: Trailer stills
>
> I just tried that link and it comes up with a message that it is
> closed!
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pbnesbit at m... wrote:
> > The Harry Potter Gallery at
> www.redmailorder.com/potter/moviegallery
> > has some *amazing* stills from the trailer. Close-ups!!
> >
> > Peace & Plenty,
> >
> > Parker
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > '...I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper
> > death...' Severus Snape, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
> >
> > 'Sarcasm--just one more service I offer' T-shirt message
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:09:40 -0000
> From: rcraigharman at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: Trailer stills
>
> Go here instead:
>
> http://www.redmailorder.com/potter/intro.htm
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., flaearthgoddess at y... wrote:
> > I just tried that link and it comes up with a message that it is
> > closed!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pbnesbit at m... wrote:
> > > The Harry Potter Gallery at
> > www.redmailorder.com/potter/moviegallery
> > > has some *amazing* stills from the trailer. Close-ups!!
> > >
> > > Peace & Plenty,
> > >
> > > Parker
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > '...I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper
> > > death...' Severus Snape, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
> > >
> > > 'Sarcasm--just one more service I offer' T-shirt message
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:12:06 -0000
> From: pbnesbit at msn.com
> Subject: Re: Trailer stills
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., flaearthgoddess at y... wrote:
> > I just tried that link and it comes up with a message that it is
> > closed!
>
> OK, try this one:
>
> www.redmailorder.com/potter/moviegallery3.htm
>
> That should get it & there are links to the stills. It's on my
> favourites list!
>
> Parker
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pbnesbit at m... wrote:
> > > The Harry Potter Gallery at
> > www.redmailorder.com/potter/moviegallery
> > > has some *amazing* stills from the trailer. Close-ups!!
> > >
> > > Peace & Plenty,
> > >
> > > Parker
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > '...I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper
> > > death...' Severus Snape, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone
> > >
> > > 'Sarcasm--just one more service I offer' T-shirt message
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:30:48 -0000
> From: flaearthgoddess at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: Trailer stills
>
> Thank You! It worked.
>
> Michelle
>
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., rcraigharman at h... wrote:
> > Go here instead:
> >
> > http://www.redmailorder.com/potter/intro.htm
> >
> > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., flaearthgoddess at y... wrote:
> > > I just tried that link and it comes up with a message that it is
> > > closed!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In HPforGrownups at y..., pbnesbit at m... wrote:
> > > > The Harry Potter Gallery at
> > > www.redmailorder.com/potter/moviegallery
> > > > has some *amazing* stills from the trailer. Close-ups!!
> > > >
> > > > Peace & Plenty,
> > > >
> > > > Parker
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > --
> > > > '...I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even
> stopper
> > > > death...' Severus Snape, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's
> Stone
> > > >
> > > > 'Sarcasm--just one more service I offer' T-shirt message
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > --
> > > --
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:42:31 -0000
> From: foxmoth at qnet.com
> Subject: Screaming scene
>
> Did anyone think we were gonna get a movie *without* a screaming
> scene? From *this* director? At least they don't have their hands up
> around their faces.
> Pippin
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 21:42:48 -0000
> From: "Kelley" <SKTHOMPSON_1 at msn.com>
> Subject: Casting for the twins?
>
> Redmailorder has these names listed as unconfirmed for playing F &
> G: James Phelps -- Fred, and Oliver Phelps -- George. I know we had
> been wondering if there was any word on who the actors might be, but
> don't recall if this was mentioned yet. Has anyone heard anything
> definite about this?
>
> Kelley -- off to search for pics now
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 13:49:48 -0800
> From: "Saitaina" <saitaina at wizzards.net>
> Subject: Re: The trailer (Percy and Hagrid's line)
>
> I know, just annoys me when there are lines that aren't in a novel I damn
near have memorized...but at least theirs a movie at all. I shall be
grateful and keep my yap shut...most of the time.
>
>
> Saitaina
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:04:08 -0500
> From: Persephone <hermitchick at crosswinds.net>
> Subject: Re: trailer thoughts on th e"last line"
>
> heiditandy at yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > s
> > p
> > o
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> > f
> > o
> > r
> > t
> > h
> > e
> > t
> > r
> > a
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> >
> > It seems my first post on this didn't go through. Grrr.
> > I watched the end of the trailer very carefully on the highest
> > resolution possible, and I am convinced that Hagrid's mouth movements
> > and words do NOT match up when he says, "Harry, you're the boy who
> > lived" - it looks like he's saying the line from the book - "Harry,
> > you're a wizard!" but I wouldn't bet gryffindor's sword on it...
> > If someone who is better than me at lip reading could check it out,
> > that would be great.
> >
>
> I couldn't tell, mine keeps jumping, and I have to watch it fraim by
> frame to see it all, this gets really anoying.
>
>
> > On a different screen-freezing note, the only part of the trailer
> > where it looks like harry's hair is off his forehead is the bit when
> > the Bludger is released from the strap. Has anyone been able to
> > freeze that bit so we can see if the scar is visible?
> > I am not surprised that they gave him heavy bangs - it says very
> > clearly in Book 1 that his hair was worn in a fringe - the bit where
> > aunt petunia cuts everything but that is the longest description, and
> > to be honest, since the first book cover I saw was for SS, not PS, I
> > assumed he did have bangs/fringe, and it was just being blown back as
> > he flew to catch the Snitch.
> >
>
> Here are some rather bad scren shots made by myself, they're rather
> blurey to see, and if I mak it bigger it gets really blury; but I did
> makethem from the 10kb Quick time version. I hope they work, I uploaded
> them to geocities, and they sometimes mix up file names when you upload
> more than one at a time, I really hate that!
>
> Here they are:
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry1.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry2.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry3.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry4.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry5.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry6.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry7.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harryr8.jpg
>
> An attempt to sharpen the closer shots, very bad though:
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry2-s.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry3-s.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry4-s.jpg
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/harry5-s.jpg
>
> And Snape, because I wanted to:
> http://geocities.com/hermitchick/trailer/snape.jpg
>
> -Kate, who has too much free time and no life
>
> --
> "So we reach into the raging chaos, and we pluck some
> small glittering thing, and we cling to it, and tell
> ourselves it has meaning, and that the world is good,
> and we are not evil and we will all go home in the end."
> - Lestat, "Tale of the Body Thief" by Anne Rice
>
> Persephone's Lair: http://geocities.com/hermitchick
> Harry and Draco Archive: http://geocities.com/harry_and_draco
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 00:15:02 -0000
> From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Finding the trailer on Dark Horizons
>
> Dark Horizons has been updated. What you have to do is click on News
> & Rumours, scroll down to yesterday's date (March 1) and click on
> that, and you'll come to the page of March 1 updates. The trailer
> links are about halfway down that page.
>
> Boy, it's not often I can give any tech advice.
>
> Still gritting my teeth over spotty Quicktime and spottier RealPlayer
> versions, but taking comfort in the superclear stills at
> redmailorder.com,
>
> Amy Z
>
> ---------------------------------------
> If only the hat had mentioned a house
> for people who felt a bit queasy,
> that would have been the one for him.
> --HP and the Philosopher's Stone
> ---------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 00:22:43 -0000
> From: "Trina" <lj2d30 at gateway.net>
> Subject: Re: The trailer (Hagrid's line)
>
> I know that Hagrid never says "Harry, you're the boy who lived";
> however, I am not letting this bother me. For one thing, I think it
> may mean that the bit in the book where people are meeting in secret
> and toasting "Harry Potter--the boy who lived!" is probably not in
> the film (just my opinion) and they wanted to get it in the film
> somewhere. And for another, it wouldn't be the first time that a
> line is in the trailer but not in the final film version. For
> example, when I went to see "My Best Friend's Wedding" I fully
> expected to hear Julia Roberts utter the line, "In situations like
> this, I try to figure out what Lucy Ricardo would do." (or something
> like that, my memory is a bit fuzzy) because it was in the trailer.
> But she never said it in the film. So, we shall just have to wait
> and see!
>
> Trina
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:22:42 -0000
> From: "Ebony AKA AngieJ" <ebonyink at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Screaming scene
>
> Delurking for a sec to read trailer posts...
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., foxmoth at q... wrote:
> > Did anyone think we were gonna get a movie *without* a screaming
> > scene? From *this* director? At least they don't have their hands
> up
> > around their faces.
> > Pippin
>
> Aw, c'mon, Pip! :-D You can't say that Dan is a dead ringer for
> Macaulay Culkin (BTW, wonder what Home Alone Boy's up to these
> days?). Just from the little we can discern from the trailer, I
> don't think a case can be made for sickly-sweet "I'm soo cute"
> acting. Which was one of my fears about a live-action movie.
>
> Despite the screaming and giggling I've been doing to fandom friends
> via IM over the past 48 hours ("Aah! I can't stop watching it,
> Carole!"), my optimism is still cautious. It'll be great to come out
> of the closet to my sisters (who will LOVE the movie--they're just
> not big on recreational reading!), but it'll be even more great if
> some of the small nitpicks are corrected.
>
> The Great Hall was perfect IMHO. I always imagined a larger room,
> but after watching the trailer, it's now fixed in my memory and will
> remain there as I read.
>
> I have to get used to seeing the actors in their roles, especially
> Emma and Rupert. The glimpse of Felton made me exhale (winks at all
> the Draco fans)--yes, that's Draco. Dan is perfect as Harry... hope
> they'll do movie versions of the PS and SS covers. Except... where's
> the scar? I know his hair's covering it, but...
>
> Have no problem with the "Boy Who Lived" line, especially when it was
> my sig quote in early fandom days some months back. What's wrong
> with slogans? Campaigns are run, wars waged, and empires built on
> their foundation. Ender Wiggin is the Xenocide and the Speaker for
> the Dead, Superman's Faster Than a Speeding Bullet... Harry Potter's
> the Boy Who Lived. Works for me.
>
> The Wingardium Leviosa business was too cute... now we'll have to
> endure months of the Feather Theory, right, Kathy and Mo?
>
> (Which reminds me. Kathy and Mo and others of like temperament, go
> to ff.net and read "Picturesque"... you'll know why once you start
> reading it. Penny and crew, read that one with a grain of salt, then
> if you're in the mood for fluff designed for those of our
> inclination, read "Dancing Shoes".) ;-)
>
> Back to deep lurkdom...
>
> --Ebony AKA AngieJ
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 02:39:56 -0000
> From: "Amy Z" <aiz24 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Scar, Boy Who Lived (was Screaming scene)
>
> >Dan is perfect as Harry... hope
> > they'll do movie versions of the PS and SS covers.
>
> Dan is great, I agree, but if they're going to do a new cover, I wish
> it would have Jo's Harry drawing on it. That's my Harry!
>
> >Except...
> >where's
> > the scar? I know his hair's covering it, but...
>
> Am I being paranoid, or do you get the sense they're teasing us? I
> can just see the editor now, deciding to cut an otherwise perfect shot
> out of the trailer because it shows The Scar and we aren't supposed to
> see it yet!
>
> Or maybe they've decided to make Harry scarless. I mean,
> it's not that central to the plot, right? (evil screenwriter's laugh)
>
> > Have no problem with the "Boy Who Lived" line, especially when it
> was
> > my sig quote in early fandom days some months back. What's wrong
> > with slogans? Campaigns are run, wars waged, and empires built on
> > their foundation.
>
> Well, there's your answer. <g>
>
> As I said, I really can't defend this opinion of mine rationally. I
> think that, like anything else in writing, it is okay in moderation,
> but when you take fanfic as a whole, it goes way overboard. I'm aware
> that that's very unfair--I can't hold it against one piece of fanfic
> (or one movie) that it does something that all the others do. Still,
> when a writer is doing something that all the others do, it may be a
> warning sign.
>
> Amy Z
> running an all-PS/SS sigs special this week in honor of the trailer
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "We could all have been killed--or worse, expelled."
> -HP and the Philosopher's Stone
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 03:04:06 -0000
> From: "Caius Marcius" <coriolan at worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: Re: trailer music
>
> --- In HPforGrownups at y..., Amanda Lewanski <editor at t...> wrote:
> > Caius Marcius wrote:
> >
> > > Trailers do not necessarily use the score of the finished film.
> This
> > > far in advance, Williams probably hasn't even completed it. It may
> > > have been Danny Elfman that you heard: I wish I had a nickel for
> every
> > > time I've heard his Beetlejuice score in another movie's trailer.
> >
> > Okay, you can have the nickels for Beetlejuice if I can have the
> ones
> > for Carmina Burana. Deal?
> >
> >
> We'd make a fortune - or should I say a "Fortuna"?
>
> - CMC (way Orff-track)
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 22:02:41 -0500
> From: Kathleen Kelly MacMillan <kathleen at carr.org>
> Subject: Wingardium Leviosa (trailer)
>
> Ebony wrote:
> >The Wingardium Leviosa business was too cute... now we'll have to
> >endure months of the Feather Theory, right, Kathy and Mo?
>
> You betcha! I have to say, seeing a Ron and Hermione scene in the trailer
> made me grin like an idiot.
>
>
> >(Which reminds me. Kathy and Mo and others of like temperament, go
> >to ff.net and read "Picturesque"... you'll know why once you start
> >reading it.
>
> Oh, Ebony, I've missed you and your wonderful recommendations! Off to
read it
> now... (but maybe I'll watch the trailer just one more time first...)
>
> Kathy
> AKA Elanor Gamgee
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 22:20:02 -0500 (EST)
> From: Morsus Crustum <shades_of_black at mail.com>
> Subject: RE: Wingardium Leviosa (trailer)
>
> Ebony wrote:
> >The Wingardium Leviosa business was too cute... now we'll have to
> >endure months of the Feather Theory, right, Kathy and Mo?
>
> <You betcha! I have to say, seeing a Ron and Hermione scene in the
trailer
> made me grin like an idiot.>
>
> Ditto on the grinning...that was such an awesome scene. But what do you
mean
> by the Feather Theory?
>
> Ginny Love, Blythe Spirit, MC, or Loser With Too Many Names
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
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>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 22:44:21 EST
> From: morine10 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: Wingardium Leviosa Scene
>
> In a message dated 3/2/01 9:24:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> ebonyink at hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > The Wingardium Leviosa business was too cute... now we'll have to
> > endure months of the Feather Theory, right, Kathy and Mo?
> >
>
> Ah yes, my favorite scene from the trailer. I'll *try* to wait until I
see
> the movie before I make any comments. However I suggest that we reserve
the
> acronym WLFT for future use. ; )
>
> -Mo
> Peace, Love, Harry Potter ~8^)
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
> "Wonderful girl. Either I'm going to kill her or I'm beginning to like
her."
> -Han Solo, Star Wars Episode IV
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 23:32:15 -0500 (EST)
> From: Jen Faulkner <jfaulkne at er5.rutgers.edu>
> Subject: Re: Harry and Cedric, with a stab at definition
>
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer wrote:
>
> > My second point to the above is that we are an adult literary discussion
> > group, so we needn't worry about whether a 12 yr old child would
> > understand Jen's homo-erotic literary crit analysis of the Harry/Cedric
> > dynamic (or what said 12 yr old might think of that analysis). This
> > group is for adults to discuss the books after all. :--)
>
> Thanks, Penny! That's exactly how I feel about it. And even a true
> 'children's book', if there can ever be such a thing, is susceptible to
> literary analysis. While the 12 yr old's reactions might be interesting
> for, say, a reader-response based criticism, they're irrelevant, at
> best, to the particular analysis I'm offering.
>
> > I'd also second Amanda's request for a nice definition of
> > homo-erotic, just for discussion purposes. :--)
>
> Amanda's request:
> > Could someone define "homoerotic" for me, then? I'm perfectly capable
> > of appreciating that another woman is beautiful, without any erotic
> > content in the observation.
>
> Since I didn't want this discussion to be too much my own (inevitably
> idiosyncratic) point of view, I spent about half an hour in the library
> yesterday looking at various handbooks and lexica of literary criticm
> and theory and critical theory, and eventually found *one* definition of
> homoerotic:
>
> "Homoerotic denotes erotic (though not necessarily overtly sexual)
> depictions that imply same-sex attraction or that might appeal sexually
> to a same-sex reader, for example a sensually evocative description of
> women in the process of helping each other undress or of nude men
> bathing in a pond. Such depiction can occur in any medium, such as
> film, painting, sculpure, photography, and, of course, literature." L.
> Tyson, _Critical theory today: a user-friendly guide_ (New York and
> London: Garland, 1999), 322.
>
> It's not a definition I'm entirely happy with, as I hope to make clear
> shortly, but it's a starting place. I was completely unable to find any
> sort of scholarly genealogy for the term (who coined it, who's used it,
> etc.). But it's part of the widely varied approaches that make up
> what's known as queer theory, a type of critical theory which owes much
> of its impetus and terminology to feminist criticism. I had hoped that
> Eve Kosofsky Sedgewick would have used it, but no, she doesn't.
> Nonetheless, I think most uses of the term are informed by readings of
> her work (_Between Men: English Literature and Male Homosocial Desire_;
> _Epistemology of the Closet_, particularly).
>
> Homoerotic is basically a term used in contrast with two others:
> homosexual and homosocial. It is used specifically to describe
> portrayals (as in literature or film) of same-sex eroticism; you would
> never say, "The poet Walt Whitman was homoerotic." (I'm sorry if any of
> this is obvious.) You could, however, say that "Whitman's poetry is
> highly homoerotic." It does not necessarily imply same-sex sexual
> behavior; one can argue that, for example, the letters of Pliny the
> Younger to the historian Tacitus have homoerotic overtones without ever
> suggesting that Pliny was having any sort of 'affair' with Tacitus. (I
> mention, only in passing, that Whitman once, after a letter from a
> (male) admirer suggested that it might be, maybe, remotely possible that
> Whitman himself had been with a man sexually, responded vehemently in
> the negative, (feigning to be) shocked that anyone could make such a
> suggestion...) Similarly, homosexual is generally reserved as a
> description of behavior, rather than portrayals of the expression
> of emotion. (I leave aside the question of whether it should be applied
> as a label of identity rather than behavior.) One would much more
> regularly describe Michelangelo's David as homoerotic than
> homosexual.
>
> IOW, despite the claim of my otherwise very reliable Webster's
> Collegiate dictionary, homoerotic is not a synonym for homosexual.
>
> A second distinction between these two words is in the use of the noun
> 'homoeroticism', which *is* used to refer to behavior rather than
> portrayal, for the period before the word 'homosexuality' is appropriate
> (in accordance with Foucauldian analysis of the construction of the
> concept of homosexual/gay identity in the 20th century). One thus will
> see reference to, for example, 'female homoeroticism in ancient Greece',
> where behavior is actually meant. Such use should be avoided, however,
> in my opinion. I tend to go for the rather more cumbersome, but more
> accurate, 'same-sex sexual behavior' or 'same-sex sexual/affectional
> relationship' vel sim. But this distinction is obviously tangential to
> HP, which is a 20th/21st c. work.
>
> Homoerotic can also be used to refer to behavior and emotions that,
> while not sexual proper, are heading, as it were, towards the sexual.
> In these cases, homoerotic signals mainly the lack of any possibility of
> genital contact, while not precluding other sorts of physical contact
> (hugging, kissing, etc.). This point is where there can begin to be
> some fuzziness of the sort that Amanda was alluding to. The erotic is
> not the sexual, but it can be extremely difficult to say exactly what
> the difference between the two is, as it can be very difficult to
> distinguish the erotic from the so-called platonic. Intensity and
> exclusivity are two important markers of the erotic here. This usage
> definitely has heterosexual in mind as the contrast, actually, rather
> than homosexual, and is, I think, mainly current in the social sciences.
>
> The other term from which homoerotic is distinguished is homosocial,
> which properly refers to same-sex relationships which are formally
> lacking in sexual or erotic elements. In reference to activities,
> homosocial is used of what is more commonly termed, for instance,
> male-bonding. It can also be used (unlike homoerotic) of people, to
> refer to those whose primary preference is to associate (as friends, as
> colleagues, etc.) with their own gender. It thus can also be opposed to
> homosexual -- a gay man whose friends are primarily women could be said
> to be homosexual, but heterosocial. Institutions and such are often
> described as homosocial.
>
> But again, the categories begin to overlap to some extent, and it is
> completely unclear (particularly before the turn of the century, again
> relying on Foucauldian analysis of the history of sexuality) where to
> mark the boundary between homosocial and homosexual, which exist rather
> (in Sedgwick's analysis in _Between Men_) on a continuum. She
> introduces the concept of 'homosocial desire', a term which is in many
> instances synonymous, as I understand her, with 'homoerotic'.
> (Genital) sexuality / sexual activity is not at issue, but the *emotion*
> which otherwise might give rise to sexual behavior is there in the text.
>
> Homoerotic is also used particularly of texts that are 'non-gay',
> whether because of time period (pre 20th c.), or because of their
> homophobic main text, or because, as in HP, of the supposed absence of
> gay issues.
>
> I hope that helped, and didn't just make things more confusing! My own
> field is Classics, so I also hope I've not made any misrepresentations
> when making statements about the word's usage outside of Classics (which
> is entirely possible). I'm trying to be more general than just Latin or
> Greek literature, and I might be losing a little of the specificity of
> definition in so doing.
>
> Amanda:
> > To expand in rambling fashion--I think it's a mark of a great work,
> > that it can be validly interpreted any number of ways. [Best
> > example: the Bible.]
>
> I agree, absolutely. And I'm *definitely* not claiming that my reading
> of the Harry/Cedric relationship is the only 'correct' one. Most works
> of literature can be interpreted through any critical method/theory,
> though certain works lend themselves more easily to analysis by certain
> methodologies. One could offer all sorts of literary analyses of HP
> -- Freudian, Lacanian (the Mirror of Erised *g*), feminist, New
> Critical, deconstructionist, reader-response, etc., etc... (And of
> course, the relationship between David and Jonathan or Ruth and Naomi
> in the Bible has been read as homoerotic...)
>
> > So I'm certain the homoerotic reading of this scene has some
> > validity, but this discussion seems to be edging the way of the
> > theories of Marja Gambutas
> <snip of discussion of Gimbutas' theories about the prehistoric goddess>
> > Thus I'm asking for a definition, for clarity's sake.
>
> I hope I've made it a little bit clearer that the term does have a
> fairly rigorous meaning, though it can sometimes be applied a little
> loosely, particularly for polemic's sake. To be more explicit --
> aesthetic appreciation and erotic appreciation are certainly not the
> same thing. But neither are they entirely discrete categories. There
> can (must) be overlap between the two, just as there can (must) be
> overlap between the erotic and the sexual. In literary analysis there
> will be at some point a subjective judgement call as to when something
> is erotic and when it is not; language and context are the two most
> important factors in this decision. I've tried to show how I see both
> language and context contributing to a homoeroticized portrayal of
> Harry's feelings for Cedric in the Yule Ball scene, but I think one
> would have a much more difficult time, for example, showing any
> eroticism in Harry's feelings for Ron. Though there are no fixed
> criteria, all I can say is that there must be specific evidence from a
> text that demonstrates eroticism to call a passage homoerotic. But
> precisely *what* such evidence consists of is a matter of debate.
>
> Moving on...
>
> AmyZ wrote:
> > Girls follow him around as much as they do Viktor Krum; people wear
> > "Support Cedric Diggory" badges (is this treating someone as an
> > object of desire? My lit-crit jargon is rusty); he is the stand-in
> > for all Hufflepuffs in their usually-thwarted dreams of glory. He
> > is their champion.
>
> I don't have my copy of GoF here, so I can't look at the text as I would
> like to. I suspect that there is some eroticism implicit in the
> description of girls following him (opposite-sex eroticism is always
> less problematic than same-sex eroticism)... but I'd *really* have to
> look at the text to know about the badges bit. It's well within the
> realm of possiblity that such a scene could be (homo)erotic, but it
> could also not be. Does anyone want to quote the text? The mere fact
> of his being a role model definitely doesn't make him an object of
> desire. Only if there is a slippage between a desire to be Cedric and a
> desire for Cedric would there be eroticism.
>
> --jen, heeing the cries of 'enough already'! :)
>
> * * * * * *
> Jen's HP fics:
> http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~jfaulkne/hp.html
> Snapeslash listmom: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/snapeslash
> Yes, I *am* the Deictrix.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2001 20:53:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: Teek <purdymango1 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: (trailer) question on the Great Hall
>
>
> --- Morsus Crustum <shades_of_black at mail.com> wrote:
>
> > As for the now infamous Scream scene... There is not a scene where
> > this
> > happens. At all. So this means they have changed the script. I
> > seriously
> > doubt that this is the ghost-in-the-Great-Hall thing, simply
> > because they
> > weren't standing together at that point (and if they were, Neville
> > would be
> > with them since he was in thier boat), there isn't anyone else
> > around, they
> > turn and run away, and, um, the trump card: wizards and witches
> > would know
> > about ghosts. For cripe's sake, Ron has a goul living in his attic
> > (better
> > than a skeleton in his closet, LOL
>
> 'nother reason it can't be the ghost scene at the sorting - they're
> wearing the gryfindor ties, not the black ones with the crest seen at
> the sorting. If they've fogotten the pajamas/neville in the fluffy
> scene I will be more than frustrated, but that seems the most likely
> posibility right now. Neville could possibly be standing off screen,
> I think there might be a shadow there. They're right in front of a
> door, which they run towards... They never run from the troll all
> together like that.
>
> I have the horrible feeling we won't know until November, and with
> our luck, that particular shot will end up on the cutting room floor.
>
> I've been watching it, and I LOVE Emma Watson, she's growing on me.
> She's VERY Hermione, if not the one that lived in my head.
> And my parents were spazzing out about how wonderful Snape is going
> to be... hehe. It's nice to be around Potterphiles all day.
> -Teek
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 04:58:22 -0000
> From: aichambaye at yahoo.com
> Subject: trailer help (no spoilers)
>
> I've watched the high res quick time version several times, but when
> I right click, I can't a.)save or b.) get a frame URL so I can play
> it on the quick time program (not the teeny little quick time window)
> and see it BIG.
>
> Windows media gives me sound and no pics; when I right click I get a
> URL that won't work in the Media Player itself.
>
> Can anyone email me a URL off-list or give me some tips on making it
> work? I have a large monitor and would like to see the darned trailer
> bigger than a 3 by 4 inch box.
>
> Thanks,
> Heather M.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 05:02:01 -0000
> From: "Scott" <harry_potter00 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Name (who Voldemort?) Shhh!!!!
>
> I know that it's not time for our discussion on everyone's favourite
> villian, but the it is scheduled for next week so I will jump ahead.
> I'm sort of responding to something that was posted in the past week
> (what I can't remember after plowing through 300+ messages. Do ya
> think I need a rememberall? No don't answer that I would just forget
> where I'd put it...)
>
> Nota Bene: I am NOT supposed to be giving Voldy's character summary,
> and that's NOT what this is. It's only my ramblings on the big V.
>
> "Could you write it down?" Harry suggested?
>
> "Nah-can't spell it. All right- *Voldemort*." Hagrid shuddered. "Don'
> make me say it again..."
>
> --Would there be a Harry Potter story without Voldemort? Probably
> not. Yet as important to the plot as he is there are some real
> problems with him in my opinon. Voldemort may be a murdering
> psychopath but he is your TYPICAL murdering psyhopath. He is very
> predictable.
>
> In other words, Hannibal Lecter he's not. (However I liked Hannibal
> the movie and loved Scilence of the Lambs. The books were still
> better though. As much as I probably should hate Hannibal "the
> Cannibal" I don't. I really wanted him and Clarice to get together at
> the end, as unrealistic as that is...erm how did I get on THIS
> subject? Oh yeah-)
>
> Cedric Diggory's death showed that Voldemort was evil, and that he
> didn't care who he killed to get what he wanted. However Voldemort
> himself had no personal connections to Diggory, (does he have any
> personal connections to ANYONE) and so this made it seem I don't know
> "less". A villian that can kill his "friends" without any remorse is
> far scarier than one that simply kill those that he doesn't know to
> gain power. Perhaps this is a personal perception.
>
> Voldemort is to me the weakest part of the HP stories, (the Trio's
> friendship being one of the strongest). He was in book one and he
> tried to kill Harry. Harry wins, and he HAS to so that he can be in
> book II right? In the second he tries yet again to kill Harry...and
> so on. That is why I liked PoA so much because Harry was dealing with
> "inner demons" brought out through the Dementors instead of a
> storybook villian.
>
> Again I am NOT saying that Voldemort is not a serious villian or that
> the war he will seemingly cause in future willn't be devastating and
> hit Harry and our other characters very hard. But evil as a concept
> can be more frightening than its incarnation (i.e. Voldy). So what is
> scarier- Voldemort himself, or how people become Voldemort?
>
> How will Harry continue to fight the big V in the future?
> Will Harry defeat Voldemort completely at the end of book seven, even
> if it kills him?*
> *(Will he defeat VOLDEMORT not necessarialy EVIL?)
>
> Scott
> Who has decided to once again use his favourite sig...
> Oh by the way that last picture of Harry smiling in the Trailer DOES
> look like John Lennon.
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> "I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in
> fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your
> mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the
> here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John
> Lennon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 00:09:52 EST
> From: wings909 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Name (who Voldemort?) Shhh!!!!
>
> In a message dated 03/03/2001 12:03:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> harry_potter00 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> << A villian that can kill his "friends" without any remorse is
> far scarier than one that simply kill those that he doesn't know to
> gain power. Perhaps this is a personal perception. >>
>
> If that is true Scott...then what do you think about V killing his father?
> Didn't seem to me that V was remorseful telling Harry about that. "I
killed
> my father, and see how useful he has proved himself, in death..."
>
> Cheers,
> Paula
> Gryffindor
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 05:20:23 -0000
> From: kris403 at yahoo.com
> Subject: trailer
>
> I give up. I can't possibly keep up with all the posts on this site. The
trailer was wonderful. I thought I had the scream scene figured out, then I
reread a chapter, saw the trailer again... and no.
>
> I can't believe how observant everyone is. I think we have to be
realistic though and realize that some things will have to be changed from
the books. Not every line will be the same, and unfortunately we won't get
to see the thoughts inside Harry's head at times. I can deal with the small
changes. I've heard that quiddich may not be as in depth as the book
because of special effects, and that other scenes will incorporate more than
what was in the book. That is all fine. I was simply terrified that this
would end up a movie where the book and the movie are not even related. I'm
sure you have all read a book, then viewed the movie, only to wonder how
they ever got the script. I don't think that will be a problem in this
case.
>
> Also, I have seen many trailers that have used scenes that have never made
it into the movie. I always left the movie wondering if I missed something.
That is probably the case with the boy who lived line. It's there right now
for show. It's big, dramatic. The book line, while we all love it, isn't
as bold for a trailer. I guess we'll all just have to wait.
>
> I for one was very happy to see that there didn't seem to be a lot of
phony looking computer animation. The goblins were real, not generated.
>
> November seems forever away.
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
>
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