SHIP: re: Ron & the Yule Ball

[Penny & Bryce Linsenmayer]

No: HPFGUIDX 13659

Hi --

bbennett at joymail.com wrote:

> I do see Hermione as a mature young lady, but I don't see Ron as
> unusually immature in comparison to Harry. He has his hangups, but so
> does Harry.

I agree that both Ron & Harry are so far pretty immature in the romance
category.

> > that sense I have many 14 year old guy friends who know exactly
> > what's going on, they know who they like and some even have steady
> > girls friends,
>
> And I have 30 year old friends who are still trying to figure things
> out :*) Please don't think I was trying to say 14 year olds don't
> know what's going on, Star. What I think is based on memories of
> myself and my friends at that age. Everyone is different.

Yes, I think alot of us "30 somethings" (or 20-somethings or
40-somethings for that matter) tend to project our own memories of
adolescence into these debates.

> Do you think JKR writes her characters as young? In general, or only
> in regard to relationships? My impression is that they are a bit more
> savvy than I was at that age, and their struggles as they try to
> figure out feelings for the opposite sex seem quite realistic to me -
> but it's been a while.

Been awhile for me too.  Like B, I think the characters are in general
more savvy than the average kids their age.  But, I think they might be
a bit slower in the romance department than kids that age these days.  I
can't help wonder if it's because JKR didn't find it was as easy to
tackle that aspect as she thought it would be (she had said strongly
that she did not intend to keep the characters mired in pre-adolescence
forever, but I'm not sure that GoF advanced them all that much really).

I know this is a general observation, but it does appear to me that of
the teenagers on the list who have spoken up on the issue (or who have
spoken to listies like Ebony & Cassie & Heather), more of them interpret
Hermione as liking Harry than liking Ron.  Interesting.  :--)

Shifting to Mo:

> I said: > I agree with Kathy on that one!  I'm *not*, however, expressing any
> > agreement with the position that JKR has said that it *will* be R/H or
> > any of that nonsense.  Her statement was "Yes, there's something going
> > on between them, Ron just doesn't know it yet."  I still say that it's
> > arguable that the "something going on" is one-sided.  I think JKR's
> > statement was sufficiently ambiguous. But, it's clear that Ron just
> > hasn't admitted his own feelings.  We're in agreement on that much
> > anyway.
> >
>
> Mo responded: First off - R/H nonsense?  Come now, we have extremely valid points and
> *very* strong textual evidence. It's hardly nonsense.
>
Um .... did you miss the phrase "or any of that"?  I was *not* saying
that R/H is nonsense by any stretch.  The "nonsense" that I was
referring to is the argument that JKR's statement is irrefutably saying
that there will be a canon romance between Ron & Hermione.  :--)

> As for JKR's statement, IMO the only thing you could call ambiguous is her use of the
> word "something."  But is there really any question as to what she means?  I
> think that her use of the word "between" means just that - between Ron and
> Hermione.  It involves *both* parties.  I interpret her statement to mean
> that Hermione knows but Ron is a clueless boy. :)
>
Well, she made alot of pre-GoF statements that had everyone utterly &
completely convinced that Harry & Cho would date each other in GoF.
She's quite good IMO at making public statements that appear to be clear
but are, in reality, rather ambiguous.  I interpret what she said as
being clear only that Ron doesn't know what's going on yet.  There's
more than one spin to be put on virtually everything JKR says -- that's
all I'm saying.  :--)

> Now I have to half disagree with this.  Yes, Harry is acknowledging that
> Ron likes Hermione, but I feel that he is also saying that Hermione likes Ron.
>
> Why?  Well let's look at Hermione's statement from the row:
>
> "Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a
> last resort!"
>
> First, Hermione says this to Ron and NOT to Harry.  Why would she bother
> (IMO) *telling* Ron to ask her to be his date next time if she liked Harry
> or anyone else for that matter?  There are plenty of things she could have
> said such as "shut up" or "I can date whoever I want to."  Really, I think that
> the above statement may as well say, "The minute they announce the next
> ball you had better be over here begging me to go with you!"    She does
> NOT tell Harry to ask her out next time.
>
Well, she and Harry weren't having an argument though, were they?  I
agree with Simon's points.  Ron is the one who made the big deal about
her ball date and it possibly being a disloyal act.  She was having a
fight with Ron.  Of course, she wouldn't direct that sort of line at
Harry.  He made a point of saying that he didn't mind that she went with
Krum.

Besides, I don't think she was so much *telling* him to ask her as his
date next time as she was telling him that if he didn't like her going
with another student, he should have asked her himself.  Subtle
difference.  They were having a huge fight ... and the context involves
thinking back to the "couple of trolls" remark that Ron made within
Hermione's hearing, her reaction to that & her sarcastic glee at his
predicament later on.  I also think she was unbelievably furious that
Ron would accuse her of "consorting with the enemy" & possibly betraying
Harry.  Loyalty is very important to Hermione so a jab that she was
being disloyal would not sit well with her at all.

Bbennett said:

> Having been a 14 year old girl, I have to disagree with your
> reasoning, Simon.  At that age, I never would have said something
> like that to a boy (and a close friend, at that) and have expected
> him to take it as a generic, blanket sort of statement - as a 30 year
> old, I'd still assume that by saying something like this I'm
> letting the guy know I'm interested!
>
Well, I've been a 14 yr old girl myself, and I agree with Simon.  They
were having a fight.  The words were spoken in anger, and most of us
have agreed that it seems most likely that the words that prompted her
remark were not personal.  So, why should her retort be taken as
personal if his initial triggering remark wasn't personal?

Mo has since pointed out also that she was *telling* him to ask her to
the next Ball.  Again, I disagree.  IMO, she was just pointing out that
if he didn't want her consorting with the enemy so to speak, he'd better
queue up a bit sooner than asking her as a last resort.  I definitely
don't think this is a Mars/Venus thing -- I'm a female & I just
interpret her statement as anger ... not definitive evidence that she
has an interest in him.

Penny (who should be doing a million other things right now ...)


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