SHIP: Ron, Hermione, the Yule Ball, and Mrs. Weasley

[Kathleen Kelly MacMillan]

No: HPFGUIDX 13721

Ahoy there!  Ah, the choppy waters in these parts tell me another shipping 
debate lies in our path!  The Captain of the Good Ship R/H steps forward to 
take her watch, allowing the beleaguered First Mate, who has held the wheel 
for several hours straight, to take some much-deserved rest.

Penny wrote:
>Continue to read R/H shippers. Believe it or not, I'm largely on your
>side on this one. <g>

Isn't that one of the seven signs of the Apocalypse? <g>
(OK, I just read through Penny's message again and realized that she agreed 
with me three times in a row!  I *know* that's one of the signs!...OK,OK, I'm 
getting back on topic, I promise...)

Penny:
>He was astonished that she
>was going with someone else, but I think this is more to do with his
>perception that she was just "good old Hermione" who wasn't really a
>"girl" in his mind until it was becoming clear that he was going to >have 
trouble getting a date at the 11th hour.

And, I would point out, the fact that he realizes she's a girl doesn't mean 
he's anywhere near admitting that he has feelings for her.

Penny:
>What would Ron have thought if Hermione had gone with Harry?

An interesting question (I snipped your whole scenario here, but I agree it's 
plausible.)  However, to me, one of the reasons H/H doesn't ring true is 
precisely because Ron *doesn't* seem terribly bothered by the insinuations 
that Hermione is Harry's girlfriend.  If there were subtext, I would think he 
would at least show some resentment.  (And don't tell me he wouldn't pick up 
on it--he may be a dolt who doesn't know his own feelings yet, but he knows 
enough to get jealous.)

Penny:
>One point I'll make at this stage is that it is interesting that Ron
>does *not* specifically ask her to ball. He at first says, "Well, you
>can come with one of us."

This didn't surprise me a bit.  He hasn't admitted to himself how he feels, so 
it doesn;t surprise me that he wouldn't put himself out there by asking her.  
I'm with B.--I think he probably did (consciously or subconsciously) wait 
until the last minute, assuming he'd go with Hermione one way or another.  
That still means he took her for granted, of course.


Penny:
>Okay R/H types: if Ron *did* say something personal ("why didn't you
>go to the Ball with me rather than Krum?"), why in the world would he> >think 
she'd missed the point? Why would he look thunderstruck?

*blinks and looks around at shipmates*  Did any of us say we thought that was 
the case? If so, I don't remember it.  In fact, I absolutely agree that Ron 
wouldn't have said anything personal--he's still too out of touch with his own 
feelings at this point.  On the contrary, I think it would be *Hermione* who 
would bring it up, if anything personal was said.  Something along the lines 
of "I know what's *really* bothering you!"


Penny:
>For once the R/H shippers shouldn't be too up & arms about one of my
>shipping posts --

Oh, Penny, my dear.  You underestimate us. ;)

Paula:
>All that said, I do agree that being in the thick of what the
>characters are experiencing has to give you a bit of a different
>viewpoint. In fact, I think that's one of the tests of good writing,
>that it can stand up to a multiplicity of views, and mean something a
>little different to each reader.

Hear, hear!  It consistently amazes me, the number of different 
interpretations can be placed on the same words.

First Mate Mo wrote:
>As for JKR's statement, IMO the only thing you could call ambiguous is
>her use of the word "something." But is there really any question as
>>to what she means? I think that her use of the word "between" means
>>just that - between Ron and Hermione. It involves *both* parties. I
>>interpret her statement to mean that Hermione knows but Ron is a
>>>>>>clueless boy. :)

Exactly.  This is how I interpret it as well.  Penny has a point about JKR's 
statements sometimes being misleading, but I still heartily doubt that is the 
case here.


Mo again:
>Yes, Harry is acknowledging that Ron likes Hermione, but I feel that
>>he is also saying that Hermione likes Ron. Why? Well let's look at
>>>Hermione's statement from the row:

This was pretty clear to me too.  But then, one of the things I love about 
JKR's style is that things, especially emotional things, are rarely laid out.  
She shows rather than tells.  So it's up to the reader to interpret what's 
going on.Despite the over-the-top nature of much of what she writes about, 
JKR's style is fairly understated.


Mo again:
>I guess I really don't think that Hermione's feelings are some big
>>>>mystery. She may not be as transparent as Ron and the hints may be
>a bit more subtle but I feel that they are there. Especially after
>>>>that statement during the infamous Yule fight. :)

Surprise, surprise...I agree.  Hermione's not as much of an open book as Ron 
is.  (Remember, it's Harry's POV and he's absolutely mystified by girls in 
general anyway!)  But I maintain that her jealous looks cannot be explained 
away as easily as some H/H-ers would like.  And don't even get me started on 
that semicolon thing again! :)


Mo:
>BTW, if anyone is interested in seeing some *R/H-Type* interpretations
>on the Yule Ball fight I suggest a trip to Sugar Quill Island
>>>>>>>>>(www.sugarquill.com) Arabella and Elanor Gamgee (AKA Cap'n
>>>>Kathy) each have stories that contain the scene as well as my own
>"Yule Brawl"

Thanks for the plug, Mo!


Penny:
>  The "nonsense" that I was referring to is the argument that JKR's statement
>is irrefutably saying that there will be a canon romance between Ron &
>Hermione. :--)

Of course, it would equally be nonsense to say that said statement  
irrefutably *doesn't* mean that.

Penny:
>Well, she and Harry weren't having an argument though, were they? I
>agree with Simon's points. Ron is the one who made the big deal about
>her ball date and it possibly being a disloyal act. She was having a
>fight with Ron. Of course, she wouldn't direct that sort of line at
>Harry. He made a point of saying that he didn't mind that she went with
>Krum.

Hmmm, it doesn't seem to me she cares much *what* Harry thinks.  Funny how 
Ron's opinion seems to matter to her though...

And about Mrs. Weasley...

Cassie said:
>It seems pretty clear that the reason that Mrs. Weasley was cold to
>Hermione was that she had read the Rita Skeeter article claiming that
>Hermione had broken Harry's heart.

I agree with this.  I never liked the idea that Mrs. Weasley's giving Hermione 
the cold shoulder had anything to do with Ron.  Mrs. Weasley clearly dotes on 
Harry (sometimes more so than her own children).  Actually, I find it a bit 
troubling at times, the way she underestimates Ron and coddles Harry.  I don't 
think she's noticed Ron's feelings on the matter one way or another.

Ebony:
>Is she that horrible a judge of character? Valuing Rita Skeeter's
>word--a woman who gave her husband, Dumbledore, and Hagrid hell--
>people Molly Weasley should respect if only by association--over
>everything she knows about the type of girl Hermione is?

Well, she did swoon over Gilderoy Lockhart too...what does that tell us?



Captain Kathy of the Good Ship R/H
off to de-gnome the Lido Deck
while her alter ego, Elanor Gamgee, merrily slides down the giant water slide
(oh, I'm going to be paying for this late night when I get up in 5 hours!)