SHIP: Responses to Firoza (and Cassie) on R/H and Such...

[naama_gat at hotmail.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 13884

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., "Ebony AKA AngieJ" <ebonyink at h...> wrote:
> Zipping up the wetsuit again...
> 

<snip>
> Subtext... uh, something I can sink my teeth into.  I live on Subtext 
> Island--grad school is corrupting me to the point where I can't read 
> a novel without trying to get into the author's head, analyzing the 
> historical and cultural context, and examining the intersecting 
> traditions/genres/philosophies within which the author is writing.  :-
> )
> 
> I've talked to a lot of people in online fandom, of all ages and ship 
> preferences, including no-shippers.  The trend that I've personally  
> noticed is that R/H fans mention GoF to support their position.  
> Which makes sense--after not reading books 1-3 for a couple of months 
> and going into GoF cold on July 8, I saw the R/H position as well.  
> 
> The only way I can explain why I'm H/H (and I'm asked all the time) 
> is to use the entire canon we have thus far, and read it as a 
> singular narrative.
> 
> GoF is not a standalone book.  It's the fourth part in a seventh 
> volume series.  It can't be read most effectively in isolation any 
> more than Wilder's "Farmer Boy" or Tolkien's "The Return of the King" 
> can.  Serial novels of this nature are actually one continuous 
> narrative in multiple parts.
> 
> The most intriguing thing in any potential romance subplot is this:  
> JKR has held back from spelling out Hermione's feelings.  I've read 
> *a lot* of serial fiction in which an author follows a remarkable 
> character and their friends from youth to maturity... and I've rarely 
> seen so much smoke and mirrors when it came to developing 
> attractions.  
> 
> It would have been infinitely easy for Jo Rowling to indicate 
> Hermione's feelings clearly, if they were indeed for Ron.  After all, 
> there isn't much room for a fully developed, tangential romantic plot 
> in her storyline... any pairings would have to tie directly into one 
> of several non-romantic storylines.  
> 
> If Ron likes Hermione, and vice versa, and this is what our beloved 
> author intended for her series, GoF would have been a good place to 
> show both characters making tentative steps towards one another... 
> nothing ambiguous.  If romance was not going to play a major role in 
> the main storylines of the later books (as some of my no-ship buddies 
> posit), or if Jo Rowling had a consistent R/H-during-canon pairing in 
> mind... GoF would have read quite differently.
> 
> I believe that Rowling is "cloaking" Hermione's feelings for a 
> reason.  If I'm correct, it wouldn't be the first time in which 
> Hermione was hiding something that was integral to the main plot.  
> Remember the Time-Turner?
> 
> If I could ask JKR one question before the fifth installment comes 
> out next year, I'd ask her this:  "Are you a fan of Louisa May 
> Alcott?"  Her answer would tell me a lot.
> 
> All writer know that plot=conflict.  If plot=the obvious or 
> plot=peace, "we could have all stayed at home".  The best writers 
> raises the stakes whenever they can, add dramatic tension here and 
> there, are masters of subtlety and misdirection, and leave their 
> readers hanging from scene to sequel.
> 
> Yet writers also have to deliver on the promises that they make.  If 
> JKR is throwing up smoke and mirrors around potential R/H, and it's 
> really all "much ado about nothing--Hermione really likes Ron", 
> there's a contingent of close readers who will always remain 
> unconvinced about that aspect of her story.  To set the table for 
> your invited dinner guests and then not serve a well-anticipated meal 
> is considered Very Bad Manners... and the analogy to fiction writing 
> is obvious.

As I understatnd it, you're maintaining that Hermione's feelings are a mystery (that is, we 
don't know how she's feeling towards Ron, or Harry). At the same time you claim that if 
Hermione ends up with Ron, JKR will have somehow disappointed some of her loyal fans, and, 
again if I understand correctly, the disappointment would be because that romance is too 
expected? How can it be expected if, according to your point of view, Hermione's feelings 
for Ron are unknown? You say that an interesting plot should not be obvious. Is R/H obvious 
then? And doesn't this admission seriously undermine the H/H position which does claim to 
see MORE textual evidence to Hermione liking Harry than to Hermione liking Ron? 

 
<a lot snipped>

> Cassie again:
> "And if this isn't a subtextual interpretation of the kiss, I don't 
> know what is. So Hermione having kissed Harry proves she doesn't like 
> him, because if she did like him, she'd be far too paralyzed with 
> fear to even go near him? Instead, she would probably just have 
> fainted at his feet. Or perhaps she would have glared at him, since 
> her repeated glaring at Ron seems to be interpreted as a sign of deep 
> affection by R/Hers."
> 
> OMG!  I haven't laughed so hard while reading a post in AGES!   You 
> see, Cassie's expressing the confusion of every H/Her I've ever 
> spoken to.  I know I think the *same thing* whenever the ship debate 
> rolls around.  I identify strongly with Hermione, I put myself in her 
> shoes... and the "I glare at him because I like him" argument is 
> unconvincing to me.  The first thing I think to myself is, "well, 
> Hermione glares at Draco as well, doesn't she?  So following your 
> rhetoric, this means that she likes Ron, and Draco, and everyone 
> who "gets under her skin"."  

Oh, but thats not fair! I claim a foul <g>. You know its not fair. Draco is Hermione's enemy 
and her glares at him do not call for any special attention. But Ron? He is one of her best 
friends, she obviously cares about him very much (as a friend), and it is in *this* context 
that the antagonism he so easily awakens in her seems indicative of underlying feelings 
Hermione has for him. 


> 
> On the other hand, who else has Hermione shown clear evidence of 
> being somewhat attracted to in canon?  She *was* attracted to 
> Lockheart (twelve year old girl's crush on a teacher--even Ron admits 
> to it)--how did she react while she was around him?  She may not have 
> been swept off her feet by Krum, but she liked him enough to go to 
> the Yule Ball with him--did she glare at him all the time, too?  Or 
> initially?

'Like' is not the same as 'attract'. It is quite obvious (to me) that she is not *at all* 
attracted to Krum. The "beetle in your hair scene" makes that abundantly clear, I believe. 
As for Lockhart, believe me, if I met a guy I had an impossible crush on I wouldn't glare at 
him either. I would be too busy blushing. Its to do with familiarity, of course.

 
Naama