Neville; Ch. 34 Summary; Dumbledore

[Hillman, Lee]

No: HPFGUIDX 14156

Here's a quick comment on Neville, before getting into deeper waters.
Aberforth's goat wrote:

> And while I'm on the topic: Jo said we're in for a surprise on the 
> next Gryffindor quidditch captain. I'm rooting for Ron, but I just 
> thought of a *really* surprising alternative: Let's grant that 
> Neville witnessed and was traumatized by his parent's torture as a 
> small child, and that this trauma explains his bad memory and 
> coordination. Well, suppose Neville were to duck in for a little 
> psycho-therapy over the summer holidays (I'm sure FFA clinic would 
> give him decent rates ... ) and come back to school with a perfect 
> memory and stunning quidditch skills?
> 

Given how afraid Neville was of flying in their first lesson, and what
happened, I doubt this is true. However, I do think that Neville has
surprises up his sleeve. My guess is that he'll have a growth spurt over the
summer and finally grow into himself. I think Harry's attitude will be more
inclusive of him and this will bring him out of his shell more. I do not
subscribe to the idea that his memory was altered artificially--he's just
not focused. But Neville will certainly grow as a character in the next book
or two.

> __________
> 
>
> Jeralyn's Questions for Ch. 34:
> 
> 1.	Harry has beaten Voldemort on several occasions by now. 
>  Why then did Voldemort untie him and give him back his wand? 
>  Is he on drugs or just stupid?
> 
This thread was started in Ch.  33, but I never saw any discussion beyond a
few isolated (and unacknowledged) posts. What exactly is the evidence that
Voldemort makes a string of mistakes? 

Others have postulated (and I agree) that this is as much a proof to himself
as to the DE's that he can do this. (I posted something similar after Ch.
33.) The fact of Harry has been bugging this dude for so long, I can't see
him NOT wanting to prove in an irrevokable fashion his superiority. And
again, he had absolutely NO WAY to predict that Harry's wand might share the
same core. Sirius, for reasons that are probably best described as a plot
device, had no idea that Prior Incantatem existed--that is, he asks
Dumbledore what happens when wands with a common core duel. Is it possible
that Voldemort also had never heard of this effect? I think it less likely,
but more probable that he had no inkling that such an event might come to
pass. 

But what is there to support the accusations of Voldemort's incompetence?
Again, I do not subscribe to the theories that link 16 year old memory/ghost
Tom Riddle to this incarnation of Voldemort. I see no evidence to suggest
that Voldemort knows anything about his diary's activity. Therefore you
can't include the 16 year old Tom's mistakes with Voldemort's. 

Even at that age, he effectively tracked down his birth father and killed
him and the older Riddles with no apparent trouble. His early rise (VWI) is
chronicled as a highly successful and terrifying campaign. If he were prone
to Evil Overlord mistakes, why wasn't he brought down before cursing Harry?
In PS/SS, it's not his incompetence, but Quirrell's, that allows Harry to
get away. Voldy can't exactly do anything physical in the state he's in,
even hold a wand. If he's not aware of or responsible for the diary's
activity, then one must skip CoS and PoA, since they bear no connection to
Voldy in GoF. 

Up until this point, his plans have gone about as well as could possibly be
expected. As I read it, the only error he makes is underestimating Harry's
resistance to Imperio and Crucio. 


> 2.	Were the apparitions emerging from Voldie's wand 
> ghosts?  If not, what were they and why were they able to 
> speak to Harry?

They were shadows. They also speak to Voldemort, remember, not just Harry.
It's reasonable to extrapolate that this is the effect of the Prior Incatato
as well, but the only instance we've seen of that spell is Amos Diggory
summoning the shadow Dark Mark, which isn't an object which can speak or
move. I would expect that if a Prior Incatato were cast on a wand which had
just cast "Serpensortia," the spell would conjure a shadow of a snake, which
could presumable slither around a bit before the wizard cast the spell to
diffuse it.

> 
> 3.	We know that the Avada Kedavra curse is associated with 
> green light.  But what was the symbolism, if any, of the red 
> light streaming from Harry's wand?
> 
Someone asked whether this had to do with the "Expelliarmus" spell on
Harry's part. I would say yes. In CoS, when Snape casts this charm on
Lockhart, "scarlet light" emits from his wand in a "dazzling flash." 

Whether colours of spells maintain any other significance is unknown. I
should expect that they probably do--Expelliarmus is a disarming charm, not
an overtly harmful one, but one that has incapacitating side effects. AK is
clearly an evil spell, as is the Dark Mark, therefore they are green?

Then why does Molly Weasley use green as Harry's colour so casually, even
though she correctly deduces that green clothing would "bring out the colour
of his eyes?" And how does this tie in to JK's comments that eye colour is
significant in the Wizarding World?

> 4.	Do you wish that, even though the original wand order 
> was a mistake, Jo had worked with it and come up with a 
> reason for James' emerging first?
> 

I think this was just an error made from a literary position--the scene
simply "feels" better to have James come out first and say, "Your mother's
coming; she wants to see you," than to have Lily come out and say, "Your
father's coming; he wants to see you." Both accomplish the same thing, but
the onus of tenderness is cast onto the female caregiver. It seems more
natural--not to open debates on the traditional roles of male and female
models in rearing children or anything--to hear that the mother is the one
who is anxious to see how her son has grown up. Empirically, it doesn't make
a whole lot of difference, though, except that either way, we are left with
one AK more than there are people. 

However, this inconsistency doesn't really bother me. I chalk it up to "JKR
is human" and go on.

 
Caius Marcius's Questions on Dumbledore:
> 
> 1. We all remember the chilling scene in GoF, when Barty Crouch Jr. 
> explains to Harry how each of his actions as Moody was coldly 
> calculated to advance Voldemort's agenda.  Will there someday be a 
> parallel scene where Dumbledore will explain his own coldly 
> calculated behind-the-scenes maneuverings to Harry? 
> 

I, like others, don't believe that Dumbledore is manipulating Harry coldly.
Manipulating, yes, coldly, no. And yes, there will be a scene eventually
where Albus tells Harry the whole truth.


> 2. Dumbledore, Harry and Fawkes. Elderly man, young man and bird. Any 
> similar trinities come to mind?
> 

You mean like Daedelus and Icarus?

> 3.Will Dumbledore survive the series? Will he hang in there until 
> Book Seven, or perish earlier? Will be die with harness on his back, 
> like good king Macbeth, or peacefully in his bed? 
> 

I don't think Dumbledore will survive the series, but I don't think we're
done with him yet. My prediction is end of book 6, because of how I see this
series arcing out. And no, it will not be a peaceful death. He will be one
of many who sacrifice to save the rest.

> 4. If Dumbledore dies, who will succeed him as Headmaster? 
> 
There are some really appealing aspects to Rebecca's theory that it will be
Snape. But I'm not as certain as she is that this is what will happen. It
depends on when and how Dumbledore dies, and under what circumstances the
school chooses its new Headmaster. Personally, I vote for Flitwick, but I
think it's more likely to be Minerva--if she isn't also dead.

> 5. Voldy loves nothing more than to talk about himself (see Chapters 
> 32-34 in GoF).   By contrast, most of what we know of Dumbledore's 
> past was on the back of a trading card.  What is the significance of 
> Dumbledore's consistent refusal to talk about himself?
> 

Living Legends don't have to brag or boast. One's reputation is generally
more easily maintained by letter others tell the tall tales and share the
stories. I think Albus has a great deal of modesty and no need to advertise
his accomplishments. I see him as a Sensei type, very secure in himself.
Also, I don't doubt that there's no small amount of pain in his past, his
memories of his life aren't necessarily all harmless nostalgia, and the less
said about certain periods (such as his involvement in the capture and
defeat of Grindlewald) the better.

> 6. How did Dumbledore defeat the Dark Wizard Grindelwald?
>

I'm so glad you asked. I'm working on a backstory that will address my take
on this, but I believe that there's no question Grindelwald was working with
Hitler. I think that in both cases, the senior officers realized they were
loose canons and conspired to do something about it. In the Muggle camp, the
attempt on Hitler's life failed. On the Wizard side, it succeeded, and the
disloyal officers (including a very young Voldemort and Lucius Malfoy's
father) were able to set Grindlewald up to run into Dumbledore and his team
of wizards who were on their way to besiege him. Without the assistance of
his lieutenants, Grindlewald was forced to duel on his own. And Dumblydore
kicked butt, but I don't think he's proud of it, in retrospect (see above).
Maybe Olympe was part of the French Resistance wizards who helped him
infiltrate the front to get to Grindy. (This also helps reinforce the Malfoy
family prestige among wizards.)

On the silly side, maybe he Transfigured himself into a germ and infected
Grindlewald a la Merlin and Mad Madam Mim. 
 
> 7. In the passage describing his physical appearance, it is said that 
> Dumbledore's  nose looks to have broken twice. Did Dumbledore play 
> Quidditch as a younger man? 
> 

Doubt it. He doesn't seem like the broom-flying type to me. I think he
received those breaks while working as a spy in WWII. (Rah, Rah, Albus!)
After the war, he settled down to relax at Hogwarts, figuring that teaching
unruly teens the ins and outs of Transfiguration was nothing compared to the
front.....

> 8. Did Dumbledore really forget to shut the door on the Pensive? Or 
> did he mean for Harry to find it?  Does the flashback to the Crouch 
> trial suggest that Dumbledore was considering the possibility that 
> Crouch might be lurking about? 
> 
Back to a more serious note, I don't think he meant for Harry to find it,
just as I don't think he meant for Harry to find the mirror of Erised. He's
certainly not upset with Harry, either time, for indulging his curiosity. I
think the Crouch scene appearing at this point is an indication that he's
thinking about Barty Crouch, Sr. and Karkaroff. He explains to Harry that
the Pensieve makes connections for the user, so I think the Pensieve picked
up on his thoughts about these two persons who are or are supposed to be at
the school, and drew connections based on the times he saw them together:
the trial; which led to Barty Sr.'s hard line of policy when dealing with
his own son. 

If the Pensieve is meant to free associate memories, then I don't think too
much can be read into the appearance of young Crouch at that time. Besides,
it's a plot device. Time to plant a Clue--ah, we'll use this neat gadget
thingy. This is not meant as an aspersion, btw, just an observation. More
highly acclaimed authors than Rowling have been known to do it, too.

> 9. "I did hear an excellent one over the summer about a troll, a hag, 
> and a leprechaun who all go into a bar......"  Does anyone know how the 
> rest of the story goes?
> 

Do we want to? Where did he hear it? Who told it to him? Does Minerva stop
him because it's a tangent, or because she's heard it and knows it's not fit
for kids' tender ears?

> 10. Dumbledore tells Harry that the one thing Voldemort cannot 
> understand is love.  Does Dumbledore understand love?  How does he 
> demonstrate (or fail to demonstrate) it? 
> 
Whomever said he understands love and uses it all the time, I agree.

> 11. Does Dumbledore really have a brother Aberforth? And how does 
> cast an inappropriate charm on a goat? (And please remember this a 
> family-oriented chat group). 

Sure, he has a brother Aberforth, but is he older or younger? 
Maybe the charm was to make the goat sing or something equally unappetising,
but innocuous. Okay, so I can't even type that with a straight face.....

Gwen