[HPforGrownups] in defense of sirius black

[Monika Huebner]

No: HPFGUIDX 14403


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carole Estes [mailto:lrcjestes at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 7:05 PM
> Subject: [HPforGrownups] in defense of sirius black
> 
Carole wrote:

> As Penny stated I just can't help stepping up to the plate.  

So do I... Sirius is my favorite character, too, and I just cannot
stay put if someone says he's a violent jerk... You really should 
read the recent character discussion in the archives of the list.
If you say that Sirius is violent and ruthless, you should consider
where he has spent the last twelve years and extrapolate to the
"real" world. Think about what happens to people who are
wrongly imprisoned and tortured, and I don't speak of prisons
in the so-called "civilized" world. Azkaban isn't a normal prison,
most people go mad in there because dementors cause clinical
depression, that is sheer psychological torture. You cannot
spend 12 years in such a place and get away unscarred. And as
Carole has pointed out, Sirius had already been traumatized when
he was sent to Azkaban, not exactly the right place to recover.

> Magda wrote
> 
> > >Have just finished reading PoA and and haven't read GoF at all so
> > >these comments might be changed after reading the fourth book.  But I
> > >must admit that I think Sirius Black is a serious jerk and that Snape
> > >might have done Harry a future favour if he'd gone ahead and blasted
> > >him with the wand like he so badly wanted to do.

I heartily disagree here. You imply that Snape would have been right to
kill an innocent man, or even worse, feed him to the dementors? I know
that Snape *believed* he was right because Sirius was a wanted criminal
in the wizarding world, but since *we* know better, I just cannot agree
with you. Sirius was unarmed and defenseless, and he certainly wasn't
a danger to anyone at that moment.

> Then Jee wrote:
> >
> > The trick that Sirius played on Snape was simply despicable, even for
> > a sixteen-year-old. Not that it's unreasonable to *want* to kill Snape,
> > nasty little git that he is, but to actually carry it out? And in a way
> > that would leave the blood on his friend Remus's hands(claws)? That was an
> > all-time low for Sirius so far.

We have had this kind of discussion a while ago, too. I agree with Carole
that 16 year old boys aren't always very sensible, that they don't think
through their actions and are in general rather immature. And keep in mind
that Sirius didn't drag Snape up the Astronomy tower and then pushed him
off the tower in the intent to kill him. Nothing would have happened if Snape
hadn't been so nosy. No one forced him to follow Lupin into the tunnel.
And I am pretty sure that Sirius felt *very* bad when he realized what 
consequences his prank could have had. I agree with Penny that we 
don't know the whole story, we only know Snape's PoV. 

> > It's a little disturbing to me that Sirius had that kind of violent yet
> > sneaky tendency even before Azkaban. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a
> > really great guy, but he does have a ruthless side to him, a dark streak.

I cannot see neither a dark streak nor a ruthless side here. It was thoughtless
and dangerous, but it doesn't indicate a character flaw IMO. It's a sign
of immaturity, nothing more.

Carole wrote:

> I really don't see a ruthless side to him.  He has had some violent
> outbursts in PoA.  Monika and I strongly believe these are manifestations of
> a post-traumatic stress disorder and the stress and frustration associated
> with trying to get to Pettigrew before he hurts Harry.

I couldn't have said it better. Sirius has a mental disorder caused by
his traumatic experiences during the past 13 years. This isn't as far fetched
as it might sound, but what he is been through perfectly qualifies as
major traumatic stressors. If you do a web search for traumatic stress,
you will find a lot of information about what kind of events cause PTSD
and what the symptoms are. The kind of behavior Sirius shows in PoA
is a classic example of PTSD. It's not a character trait, it's a clinical
condition. He will recover a bit until GoF, and his behavior in book 4
wouldn't make any sense at all if you saw his violence in PoA as a
character trait.

Just my two knuts.

Monika

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