Malfoy redemption

[Indigo]

No: HPFGUIDX 14909

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., cassandraclaire at m... wrote:
> 
Actually, this was me :) 

> Rainylilac: Unfortunately I don't see it happening.
> Kids are among the most perceptive people in the world.  They're 
> innocent and easily duped like Ginny Weasley, but they're also 
> capable of telling right from wrong.
> There are real world examples that bear this up.
> Kids who had prejudiced parents growing up to not be prejudiced 
> themselves.
> Draco is, in fairness, jealous of Harry but he's going about 
handling 
> it wrong.  Instead of trying to do his own great deeds, he tries to 
> tear down anything of Harry's.
> And if he really wanted to outshine Harry, he could be doing things 
> to elevate himself in Hogwarts and the eyes of others.  Either he's 
> entirely terrified by and cowed by his father, or -- more likely, 
> given how he behaves -- buys into it completely and plans to grow 
up 
> to be a Death Eater himself.
> If Draco Malfoy had the slightest inkling prejudice was wrong, he 
> would not still continually be using the "Mudblood" ephithet, 
because 
> he knows full well it is one. 
> He knows full well it is offensive to Harry's trio. 
> He knows full well it is considered one of the worst things you can 
> say about a person.
> A person lacking prejudice would have reflected on this. Maybe not 
> apologized for it, but would've at least stopped using that 
> particular thorn to nettle his adversaries with.
> 
> Um...yes. Nobody's arguing that Draco isn't a bigoted little prick, 
> in fact its been reiterated over and over even by those of us 
agruing 
> that he's redeemable. Not one person is arguing that Draco is nice; 
> not one person is arguing that he isn't a bigot and a pest and a 
> mean, unpleasant, bullying sort of child. He picks on the weak and 
> cheats and lies and is completely prejudiced. Stating all those 
> facts, IMHO, goes nowhere in arguing against his possible 
redemption; 

Except that he *chose* to be a bigoted little prick.  He knows the 
difference, and has no inclination thus far to behave the other way. 

> we all accept that that's how he's portrayed and most likely how he 
> is. "Draco is, in fairness, jealous of Harry but he's going about 
> handling it wrong" is, IMHO, the understatement that ate 
> Hogwarts. "Handling it wrong" doesn't even approach how rotten 
Draco 
> generally is. It's not really relevant to the arguement though.

Relevant in that the boy's worldview is warped and skewed -- and that 
he *likes* it that way. He self-perpetuates it by how he behaves.  He 
could choose to behave like a good kid. He doesn't. 

> 
> I don't even argue that Draco WILL be redeemed; I have only argued 
> that narratively, it would be possible for JKR to redeem him 
without 
> invalidating the universe and characters that she has created. 
Wheras 
> it would be impossible for Harry to, say, become buddies with Peter 
> Pettigrew without invalidating what we know of both of them so far.
> 
> Do you really think that Snape wasn't pretty much exactly like 
Draco 
> when he was at school? (Only possibly less popular and Draco 
probably 
> has cleaner hair.) I wouldn't be surprised if he went around 
spouting 
> off about Muggles and Mudbloods. He joined the Death Eaters, after 
> all. And his redemptive possibilites are quite clear in canon.
> 
That's all speculative though until we determine why he's so devoted 
to DUmbledore and Hogwarts. 

> Lastly, I'm afraid I don't see how the fact that kids are 
perceptive 
> ties in with anything relating to Draco's evilness or lack therof. 
Do 
> you mean an eleven-year-old child with little to no experience of 
the 
> outside world should be able to see right through everything his 
> father has ever told him to be true? 

To some degree, yes.

I know a good many 11 year olds with sufficient aplomb to know 
prejudice is wrong, and putting people down for being different is 
wrong. 

At home, Draco has motive to toe Dear old Dad's line.

At Hogwarts, though, he is not obliged to do so unless he chooses to. 
Which he does.

I suppose one could cite Harry 
> seeing through the Dursleys but there's a HUGE disctinction there 
> which is that the Dursleys are unkind to Harry and give him no 
> attention at all, wheras it certainly looks from canon like Lucius 
> gives Draco plenty of attention as well as expensive brooms. 

That's not where I was going with that, no. 

Obviously he's a spoiled rich kid.  But not all spoiled rich kids 
choose to torment others either. 

Or are 
> you saying that the fact that the fact that Harry and Hermione and 
> Ron perceive him to be an evil git therefore means he is one? (Not 
> like they haven't been wrong about people before.) Maybe I just 
don't 
> understand what you were trying to say.
> 
I'm saying Draco is perceptive enough to know which way the wind 
blows, and he thinks that the Big V's side is the side on which the 
power and wealth are.  

And he has little to disprove this fiction in his head.  The Weasleys 
are all poor and Harry is deprived though he has wealthy Muggle 
relatives, and his goody-goody parents were killed by the Big V. 

He's made his choice and at present, to me, seems to have no desire 
whatsoever to change his ways.  

It will take something profound and intense to redeem him. 

Otherwise, his experiences will likely cement his belief that his 
choice is the right one.