Gender balance/strong women

[Kimberly]

No: HPFGUIDX 15026

This thread has been interesting to me, as I tend to take characters 
as they are.  I can't imagine, for example, Flitwick being a woman or 
Trelawny being a man.  They're who they are.  By extension I can't 
imagine that, having created a Flitwick or a Trelawny (or any of the 
other characters), an author would decide to scrap them in order to 
make room for a character of a different gender.  I guess it could be 
argued that she should have created more of the characters as women to 
begin with, but, well, do imaginations work that way?  If you want to 
create a good, solid character, can you start with something like "I 
need a woman, because I already have 3 men.", or for that matter "I 
need a person of X race, religion, orientation, physical trait, etc. 
to balance it out."?  It seems like an artificial way to create a 
character.  

--- In HPforGrownups at y..., Schlobin at a... wrote:
> > 
> > As I see it, Susan, Amy & Joy are all largely basing their 
> arguments on
> > the numbers.  BTW, I agree with Amy's belief that perceptions can 
be
> > skewed (the notion that people perceive the numbers to be skewed 
to
> > females if it's actually equal).
> 
> I agree with Amy that people "see" two strong female characters and 
> that equals ten. We are so used to (this is a generalization of 
> course) women blending into the woodwork, being quiet, or not taking 
> up space, that when women are as vocal as men, they are perceived as 
> loud. A man and a woman can speak in the same tone and be direct in 
> their comments. The man will elicit no particular reaction; people 
> will notice (and usually not positively) the woman. Argumentative 
> women will be characterized as a (word rhymes with snitch); 
> argumentative men will be seen as engaging in fun debate. 
> 

Now see, when I read something like this, I can't help but ask - By 
whom would the women be regarded this way?  I feel like this is a 
pretty big generalization, and sort of expects the worst of people.  
There are lots of women on this list who love a debate 
(understatement, huh?), and I don't think any of us consider each 
other to be, err... snitches.  At least I hope not (you guys don't 
think I'm a snitch, do you?)!  Maybe I'm naive, but I think most 
people would rather be around a person (of any gender) who has 
expresses their thoughts and opinions than someone who just nods and 
smiles.  

> But actually the numbers aren't bad..this is not a question 
> of "gender balance"...a euphemism. "Numbers" are a problem only
> when there are ten fascinating complex male characters to two 
> fascinating complex female characters (and I think there's really 
> only one fascinating complex character).
> And the women are not seen as particularly whole...they embody one 
> set of stereotypical female virtues (they are EITHER mother OR wise 
> woman OR young sexually attractive). Where are the sexy older 
women?

True enough.  Only one I can think of is Madam Rosemerta, and we don't 
get much of her, other than Hagrid's (and Ron's) apparent appreciation 
for her form and her 'exposition fairy' role when the gang was 
listening into the conversation about Sirius in PoA.

> I haven't noticed any of the men (who are interested in women) 
> drooling over the adult women. (the way women who are interested in 
> men are interested in Lupin, Black, Sirius). I don't think that's 
the 
> problem of people on the list -- I think it's an issue with the 
books

I'd love to see more strong female characters in the books to come, 
but I quite like and admire the characters that we have.  

Hermione's already been covered - she's strong and smart and brave and 
just all-around great, and to top it off she cleans up good.  I don't 
think I need to say more about her.

McGonagal's gotten her share of attention here too, and let me just 
say I think she rocks!  She's definitely not one-sided at all.  She's 
a very powerful witch, she's intelligent, determined, wise, and knows 
where her loyalties lie.  She's got a sense of humor, even if she uses 
it sparingly (tripe, anyone?).  She also has a feisty enthusiasm for 
Quidditch, a competitive streak, and the respect of Severus Snape, 
which we know is not an easy thing to come by.  She's also got a 
caring, tender side, which, as a teacher, she doesn't show often, but 
nevertheless has been made aparent.

I find it odd that with the perception that strong female characters 
are lacking, many people discount Ginny without giving her a chance.  
Her potential is so clear to me.  I think shes - no, let me rephrase - 
I know she's got stuff in her that's waiting to come out in the next 
books.  She has already shown strength of character (pre-ball, 
comforting Ron, standing up for Neville), a sense of humor (his eyes 
are as green as a fresh-pickled toad!  Hee!) and rather a lot of 
perserverance (as Harry's not exactly been encouraging all this time).  
I have faith that these things will develop further, and I think there 
have been lots of hints to that effect so far.

But I think the one who really hasn't gotten her props is Molly.  She 
is fabulous.  I definitely don't think she can be seen as "Arthur's 
wife', since we didn't even meet Arthur before seeing that she was a 
force to be reckoned with.  And I don't think she's 'just' a mother, 
either.  She's a fierce protector and strong disciplinarian to her 
kids, true.  I think that's a mark of a strong woman right there.  But 
she's also clearly a lover.  She and Arthur didn't get those seven 
kids from a cabbage patch, and while we haven't been exposed to the 
two of them mashing, I'd be appalled if we were, as it would have to 
happen in front of Harry.  She *does* refer to their 'wild' times 
together at Hogwarts, though.  She's also pretty wise, her weakness 
for Lockhart and her belief of the Skeeter article notwithstanding.  
She's at least more wise than Fudge and all the others who are not 
willing to accept Voldemort's return.  She's also exceedingly brave.  
She made the decision to commit herself and her family to the fight 
against Voldemort in an instant.  She didn't have to think about it.  
She knows her mind, and I've yet to see her go after something and not 
get it.  She can cook and clean, but that's not all she is.

I'm not really disagreeing that the books could use more strng female 
characters - I can definitely see that - but I can't overlook the 
great qualities of the ones that are there.  Plus, it gives me a 
chance to cheer for another Weasley.  Molly deserves a little rah-rah 
too!