Percy

[absinthe at mad.scientist.com]

No: HPFGUIDX 15379

Penny wrote:
> Hi --
> 
> muggle-reader at a... wrote:
> 
> > <long snip from CoS> Clearly Ginny is in a state of mental 
distress.
> > She is anxious, panicky, and hyperreflexic. Upon learning that 
Ginny
> > was about to divulge "important" news, Percy, with egocentric 
urgency,
> >
> > thinks "It's all about ME!", hence choking on his tea. He does not
> > even consider the important news is about the Chamber, much less 
that
> > his sister could possibly have any information about the Chamber.
> > Percy's only "concern" is to save himself. In one fell swoop, 
Percy
> > discredits Ginny's "important" news, questions her integrity and
> > discredits Ron's concern for Ginny.
> 
> I put a completely different spin on that scene.  I think Ginny
> hero-worships Percy a bit, thus explaining her need to scamper away.
=
656; Percy's motivations -- I hadn't thought of
self-centeredness.  

There is nothing in the books indicating that Ginny hero-worships 
Percy.  In PoA and GoF, Ginny seems to get along better with her 
other brothers than she does with Percy. (PS/SS Ch.6) Percy gets a 
kiss good-bye from Molly and joins the other prefects: no Percy 
interaction with Ginny and no Ginny reaction to Percy's departure. 
However, when Fred, George and Ron board the train, Ginny begins to 
cry. It is one of the three who says "Don't, Ginny, we'll send you 
loads of owls".  (CoS Ch. 9) Ron consoles an upset Ginny over the 
fate of Mrs. Norris. (CoS Ch. 8) "Ginny Weasley, who had been looking 
pale, was bullied into taking some [Pepperup potion] by Percy" 
Interesting choice of words "bullied". (CoS Ch. 12) Ginny and Percy 
don't find Fred and George's Heir of Slytherin comments amusing, but 
not for the same reason. By this time Ginny is doubting her own 
sanity and confides that and other such thoughts to Tom Riddle's 
Diary (CoS Ch. 17). Furthermore, Tom Riddle's Diary reveals in Ch. 
17, that Ginny was beginning to think Percy suspected she was 
involved with the Chamber ("Dear, Tom, Percy keeps telling me I'm 
pale and I'm not myself. I think he suspects me
"). That, in
itself, is a credible reason for Ginny's fear of Percy in Ch. 16. 
   
>That's
> admittedly plausible.  But, I think it's equally plausible that
> insecurity is at play.  She's apparently only recently discovered 
that
> Percy has a girlfriend, and it's something Percy doesn't want to 
share
> with his brothers.  He seems very shy about it, and he just leaps 
to the
> conclusion that she was about to "tell" on him.  I also don't think 
it's
> that unusual that he would think that her news involved something
> personal -- she's an 11-yr old girl, his little sister.  Why would 
he
> think that she had important revelations about the Chamber?  Ron & 
Harry
> don't necessarily think so either.  They know they were asking her 
about
> the Chamber, but her answer might have just as easily been to do 
with
> Percy as with the Chamber.  All she'd said was that she had 
something
> "important" to tell them.
> 

If the scene occurred earlier in the book , that might be reasonable. 
However, this passage occurs in Ch. 16 of CoS. By the time of this 
chapter, the Heir has attacked Mrs. Norris, Nick, Justin, Colin, 
Hermione, and Penelope; Hagrid has been sent away to Azkaban; 
Dumbledore has been removed as Head Master; students are no longer 
allowed out of their houses, with the exception of classes and meals. 
The school is in a state of emergency. No one knows the identity of 
the Heir, no one knows when or who the Heir will next attack. Under 
these circumstances for ANY student, especially a prefect, to 
completely dismiss the possibility that another student has some kind 
of information about the Chamber/Heir is not only dangerously 
foolish, but also grossly negligent. 
Harry noticed the similarity between Ginny's body language and 
Dobby's when he was about to reveal something earthshaking. Ron 
noticed something was amiss too and was prompting Ginny to reveal her 
information (I quoted this material in my prior response). However, 
Ron believed Percy when he said that Ginny's information had to do 
with him and not the Chamber. 
After Ginny's abduction later in the chapter, Ron realized that 
Ginny, in spite of Percy's assertions, did indeed know something 
about the Chamber (CoS Ch. 16: "She knew something, Harry", said Ron, 
speaking for the first time since they had entered the wardrobe in 
the staff room. "That's why she was taken. It wasn't about some 
stupid thing about Percy at all.") What does this say? It says that 
up to Ginny's abduction in Ch.16 CoS, Percy held some credibility 
with Ron, which is lost in the subsequent books. The Ron-Percy 
relationship in PoA is strained and after the Sirius Black attack 
incident, there is a seething hostility between the two (GoF almost 
every Ron-Percy interaction). 
   
> > Moreover it shows that Percy follows his preconceived notions when
> > assessing a situation rather than listening and sorting through 
the
> > facts. Ron's response, to Hermione's comment that Percy wouldn't 
give
> > any of his family to the Dementors, of "I don't know, " said Ron. 
"If
> > he thought we were standing in the way of his career
Percy's 
really
> > ambitious you know
"( GoF, Ch 27) doesn't seem completely off
the 
mark
> > in light of Percy's history.
> 
> I think it does.  I think the subtle ways that Rowling has 
illustrated
> him demonstrating family loyalty & caring concern for his siblings 
in
> times of trial indicates he would *not* let his ambitions get in 
the 
way
> of family ties.  He's obviously going to have a struggle, because 
JKR
> has also emphasized his ambition and his adherence to rules.  

 
Part of my response to this has been addressed above. So let's 
examine what the books contain about Percy and his attitudes toward 
his family.
(PS/SS Ch. 17) Upon Ron being awarded points for solving McGonagall's 
chess game, Percy remarks "My brother, you know! My youngest brother! 
Got past McGonagall's giant chess set!". Percy is very supportive in 
this instance, much more than the Sirius Black attack in PoA and 
probably the most supportive he's portrayed in the books. Again, his 
support and pride in his brother is during a time of triumph.
 (CoS Ch 8) The Pepperup potion was already mentioned.
(CoS Ch 9) Percy catches Ron and Harry exiting Myrtle's 
bathroom. "Get--away--from--there--" Percy said, striding toward them 
and starting to bustle them along, flapping his arms. "Don't you  
*care* what this looks like? Coming back here while everyone's at 
dinner--" Note: Percy concern is not for their safety, if it was, he 
would has said "Don't you know it's not safe here?" or something 
along those lines. Percy is concerned about appearances. The dialogue 
continues with Ron saying that he and Harry are investigating. Percy 
responding that the first years were anxious enough without Ron and 
Harry adding to that anxiety. "<snip> said Ron, whose ears were now 
reddening. "You're just worried I'm going to mess up your chances of 
being Head Boy--" To which Percy responds: "Five points from 
Gryffindor!" Percy said tersely, fingering his prefect badge. "And I 
hope it teaches you a lesson! No more detective work or I'll write to 
Mum!". Please note again: at this point in the book, the school was 
not in a similar state of emergency as it is in Ch. 16. Students were 
still allowed to walk the corridors without teacher escort. If Percy 
had subtracted points from Gryffindor upon immediately upon catching 
Ron and Harry it would appear the penalty was rules based. 
Subtracting the points after Ron's final comments makes it appear 
Percy was being vindictive. Also, his threat to "write to Mum!", 
takes him out of the realm of a concerned "prefect" and into the 
realm of a vindictive brother.
(CoS Ch 16) After Ginny's abduction, Percy sends an owl to his 
parents then locks himself in his dormitory. Fred, George and Ron sit 
in the Common Room. I would categorize Ginny's abduction as a "time 
of trial", yet Percy isolates himself from his brothers. Throughout 
the books, Percy is portrayed as reliable and responsible and ready 
to show it. As the eldest Weasley at Hogwarts, Percy was the de facto 
head of the Weasley family. Yet, he is locked up in his dormitory 
while his younger brothers sit together in shock. That's not being 
terribly supportive or consoling at a time of trouble.
(PoA) I referred to this in my previous response. Percy ignores Ron's 
claims that Sirius Black was in his dormitory and tells McGonagall 
that Ron only had a nightmare (therefore, nothing to worry about). An 
attack by an escaped convict within the school is a time of crisis. 
(GoF Ch 10) This is Percy's reaction to Arthur's overtime at the 
Ministry following the Dark Mark incident. "Well, Father feels he's 
got to make up for his mistake at the match, doesn't he?" said 
Percy. "If truth be told, he was a tad unwise to make a public 
statement without clearing it with his Head of Department first--" 
Molly's response to this was "Don't you dare blame your father". 
Obviously, Molly felt that Percy's comments were accusatory and 
denigrating to Arthur. As readers, we know what "public statement" 
Arthur made at the campsite and we know the spin Rita Skeeter put on 
it. As Bill, points out to Percy, Skeeter would have written 
something negative even if Arthur had said nothing. Yet, Percy lays 
the blame completely on one person: his father.
(GoF Ch 23) Fred and George approach Bagman at the Yule Ball. Percy 
sees this and expects the worst--on the part of his brothers. "What 
do they think they're doing, annoying senior Ministry members?" Percy 
hissed, watching Fred and George suspiciously. "_No_ respect
"
Percy gives the benefit of the doubt to a senior Ministry official of 
whom he has a rather poor opinion (GoF Ch. 5).  Repeating the same 
mistake he made with Ginny in CoS, Percy doesn't bother to consider 
that the Twins might have a valid reason for approaching Bagman. He 
sums up their behavior as disrespectful and annoying. Percy does 
approach Bagman and inquires about the conversation and finds his 
excuse credible (though we, the readers, later find out that Bagman 
cheated the Twins out of their money).  
(GoF Ch. 26) During the Second Task, Ron and Harry are swimming with 
Gabrielle toward the bank. Percy runs to the bank and pulls Ron up. 
Percy is described as "pale".  A few paragraphs later, Madame 
Pomphrey frees Ron from "Percy's clutches" . The word choice is 
interesting. There is almost a negative connotation generally 
associated with 'clutches', ie, the clutches of a madman. Percy's 
actions in this case are not clear-cut. He could have been really be 
concerned for Ron: Ron is underwater for more than the one hour. On 
the other hand, Ron is in a positive spotlight. Fleur is beside 
herself with worry because she could not rescue her sister. Ron and 
Harry emerge from the surface with the little girl and swim with her 
to the bank. The boys look like heroes. Ron has not embarrassed 
anyone nor has misbehaved. Furthermore, Ron tells Harry that 
Dumbledore wouldn't let anyone drown. Surely, Percy, who's Ministry 
Department helped to organize the Tournament, would know this too. 
Again, taking all things into consideration, this Percy action is not 
objectively clear-cut.

>However,  my bet is with Hermione's judgment, not Ron's.
  
Let's look at Ron's judgement in comparision to Hermione's. 
Hermione considered Trelawney to be an "old fraud". However, 
Trelawney WAS correct about Lavander Brown's dreaded thing, about 
someone leaving the class forever before the year was over, about 
Lupin not staying. She was even correct about a servant of Voldemort 
escaping and making his way to help the Dark Lord . In spite of  
Trelawney's track record, Hermione still considered her a "fraud". 
(GoF Ch 5: "And remember what Trelawney said?" Harry went on ignoring 
Ron. "At the end of last year?" Professor Trelawney was their 
Divination teacher at Hogwarts. Hermione's terrified look vanished as 
she let out a derisive snort. "Oh Harry, you aren't going to pay 
attention to anything that old fraud says?")
Hermione's assessment of Crouch, Sr. was based on his harsh treatment 
of Winky. Even after visits to Winky, Hermione is still convinced 
that Crouch Sr. is a horrible man. She doesn't question why Winky 
would remain loyal to Crouch, though she was fired abruptly. She 
takes for granted that Winky isn't used to freedom (or does she think 
Winky's too stupid to realize Crouch was a horrible master). We learn 
from Crouch, Jr's admission that (GoF Ch 35) "He dismissed Winky. She 
had failed him. She let me acquire a wand. She had almost let me 
escape".  Earlier, in his admission, Crouch Jr says that his father 
used the Imperious Curse on him because he (Crouch Jr) would try to 
escape to rejoin Voldemort. In other words, Crouch Sr. was well aware 
of the danger his son posed. Winky was entrusted to watch over Crouch 
Jr. and she failed. She was fired because under her watch Crouch 
Jr. , a faithful servant of Voldemort, was able to get a wand and 
almost escape.  In the real world I've seen employees fired for far 
less. This also raises the question how "bad" was Crouch Sr. From 
Hermione's assessment, he is completely horrible. But would a 
completely horrible man allow his wife to exchange places with his 
son in Azkaban? Would a completely horrible man allow himself to be 
convinced by his house-elf to bring his deranged son to the World Cup 
or be rewarded with treats? Unlike, Lucius Malfoy, Crouch Sr. seems 
to have respected Winky enough to consider her opinions. Dobby was 
terrified of Malfoy. Winky retained a fondness for the Crouches: that 
should have raised a red flag.
Hermione's insistance that Crookshanks wasn't out to get Scabbers, as 
Ron believed, was wrong. Crookshanks conspired with Black to get 
Scabbers. Granted, Scabbers turned out to be a homicidal traitor, but 
it still does not negate the fact that Hermione was wrong about 
Crookshank. 
Hermione's assessment of the Ron-Harry feud (GoF Chs.17-20) has 
always puzzled me. Hermione assesses that Ron is jealous of Harry. 
Yet, as readers, we are privy to the break-up (GoF Ch. 20). Ron 
thinks Harry managed to get around the Goblet's age barrier, thinks 
Harry purposely didn't tell Ron and thinks Harry's denials are lies. 
Harry is upset because Ron doesn't believe him. Ron's admission in 
Gof Ch. 20 is not a revelation of jealousy but a revelation that 
Harry was indeed telling the truth ("Harry," [Ron] said, very 
seriously, "whoever put your name in the goblet--I--I reckon they're 
trying to do you in!"). The basis for the feud is more of trust.
I touched upon Ron's judgement with Crookshanks. Here's another: 
Dumbledore. (GoF Ch 27) Hermione, Ron and Harry are discussing Snape. 
Hermione states that Dumbledore trusts him with the implication that 
Dumbledore's judgement can't be flawed. Ron, however, thinks 
otherwise: "I know Dumbledore's brilliant and everything, but that 
doesn't mean a really clever Dark wizard couldn't fool him--". Ron is 
correct. Dumbledore IS fooled by a "really clever Dark wizard" from 
the first day of school to the finish of the Triwizard Tournament, 
nearly an entire school year.
The difference, IMO, between Ron's and Hermione's judgment is that 
Hermione has a pattern of thinking "black and white".  She judges a 
person's/thing's character as "good" and cannot entertain any "bad" 
actions from that person/thing (example; Crookshanks). Conversely she 
judges a person/thing as "bad" and cannot entertain any "good" from 
that person (example; that "old fraud" Trelawney). Ron sees the "gray 
areas". Yes Dumbledore is great, but he can still be wrong. IMO, this 
quality gives Ron more objectivity than Hermione in judging character.

> > I truly want Percy to side with Dumbledore and the rest of the
> > Weasley's in the upcoming books. J. K. Rowling could have Percy 
see
> > the light. But at this point, Percy's character can convincingly 
go
> > either way.
> 
> Yeah, it can.  You're definitely right about that.   I have more
> confidence in Percy though than in Ron to be honest.  I see Ron as a
> much more likely pawn of the dark side than Percy.
> 

Percy's already been a pawn of the Dark Side. A rather good one too 
because it took the disappearance of Crouch for the Ministry to 
suspect foul play. As for pawn desirability, Hermione is susceptible, 
IMO.  Her dislike of Trelawney intensified from the comment that 
Hermione didn't have the proper aura. Her boggart was McGonagall 
telling her she failed her courses. I can see Voldemort planting 
a "super-student" at Hogwarts to successfully compete against 
Hermione. Since she bases her self-worth upon her academic 
performance, she can potentially lured with the promise of restoring 
her academic standing.

>Zsenya writes: I don't see either one of them going to the "Dark" 
side. I see Percy as more likely to side with the Ministry in the 
>beginning, which is not exactly the same as the Dark side 
(Voldemort). I don't want to get into the whole Ron argument again, 
as >we differ on this subject. I CAN see Ron acting in a sort of spy 
capacity (pretending to go to Voldemort but really working for 
>Harry). Percy and Ron are actually alike in many ways, and I see the 
same forces that will persuade Percy to leave the Ministry in >play 
to keep Ron on the right team. 

I agree with you that Percy may not go to the Dark Side, but he is 
more likely to ally himself with Fudge. Face it, most politicians 
are "yes-men" and will tow the "party line" in order to advance their 
careers.  

I realize that my messages concerning Percy can be viewed as "anti-
Percy" and even anti-Hermione. On the contrary, I liked all the 
characters in the Potter series. I just believe that if the 
characters are examined within the context of the books the better 
the we can understand them, as opposed to examining them based on 
what WE want them to be rather what the evidence supports them to be. 

Demelza